# THE Adrenal Fatigue Thread



## Metasequoia

I've posted in a few threads about my recent diagnosis of Adrenal Fatigue & have had a few requests to start a specific thread, so here it goes!
Anyone else who is on this journey to heal their adrenals, please join in the discussion! I plan on updating after every appointment.

I go to Clymer Healing Center in Quakertown, PA. Dr. Neville (95% of his patients are adrenal patients), has phone-appts from all over the world every day. Last time I was there, he had one from Poland & one from Turkey. Here's their other site, on CFIDS/Fibro (see below.)

I did an ASI saliva test (Adrenal Stress Index.) That should be the first step - my doctor ordered mine through DiagnosTechs lab. After that, he came up with a healing plan. Everyone is different & the saliva test is essential in finding out what phase of adrenal exhaustion you're in. It cost me $99.

Here are my saliva test results:

Adrenal Stress Index (ASI) 3/07:

Free cortisol rhythym****** Reference Range

7:00-8:00am - *10 Depressed* 13-24 nM
11:00-noon - *3 Depressed* 5-10 nM
4:00-5:00pm - *2 Depressed* 3-8 nM
11:00-midnight - *2 Normal* 1-4 nM

Cortisol burden - *17* 23-42

DHEA - *2 - Depressed* 3-10 ng/ml

According to the "Cortisol-DHEA Correlation Zone, I am in zone 7 (Adrenal Fatigue), the lowest possible zone - 1 is the highest & is called "Adapted to Stress."

I also have Hypoglycemia, which is the first symptom of adrenal fatigue - I've had it for as long as I can remember.

Total Salivary SIgA Reference Range

*5 - Depressed* Normal: 25-60 mg/dl Borderline: 20-25 mg/dl

Just for comparison's sake, here are my blood test results (from 2/07) - the saliva test is SO much more accurate!

*
My progesterone is non-existant, <.5, less than a post menopausal woman.*

My estradiol (estrogen) is 22, which is in range. (Not very accurate.)

My testosterone is in range, but towards the lower end. (Total - 12, free - 1.2)

*My DHEA is very low, 35, the reference range is 40-325.*

My cortisol is 13.5, which is in range. *(HA! This is why you need to do a saliva test throughout the day!)*

Vitamin D was 37, in range (I've heard that 40 is ideal & you don't want to go over 50.)

Thyroid: (doctor said this was good.)
T-4, free - 1.1
TSH - 1.86
T-3, free - 296

There is a book called Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000 that was written by Dr. Gerald Poesnecker. Dr. Poesnecker worked at Clymer for 40+ years researching adrenal fatigue & treating patients. His theory is that Chronic Fatigue & Fibromyalgia is a double sided coin, both caused by adrenal fatigue. My doctor, Dr. Neville, worked alongside Dr. Poesnecker & before Dr. Poesnecker passed away in 2004, he chose Dr. Neville to take over his work & patients. Oh, and a bonus, he's really into WAPF.









I don't have physical fatigue even though my test results would suggest so. I have the "dread horror anxiety" that is a symptom of adrenal fatigue. My body just doesn't have the cortisol to cope with any type of stress, physical or emotional. I need to try to cut back on nighttime nursing, that's the only issue that I can't control. I've had no caffeine for almost 4 months now, don't even crave it. I have had a few bites of chocolate (mostly on easter) but I've been really good about not having it.

My doctor asked if I was eating enough red meat, so I think that animal protein is very important when dealing with adrenal fatigue. I feel like I eat enough, I eat 2-3 eggs every morning for breakfast & some form of animal protein each night, beef, chicken or salmon usually.

The important supplements are a high quality B-complex, vitamin c (sodium ascorbate is good) & a magnesium supplement, also a good multi vitamin/mineral. The diet *must* be a whole foods diet, no crappy processed/packaged foods. Another big recommendation is salt & lots of it.

I salt everything heavily (sea salt.) My doctor wanted me to drink a glass of salt water first thing in the morning & I tried but I couldn't do it.
I limit potassium intake, no bananas, dates, figs, minimal fruit. Breakfast is VERY important, something with protein & lots of salt. No juices, minimal sweetener in teas - I use a dab of honey.

Dehydration is a biggie for AF patients. We have a problem with the sodium/potassium ratio (why we shouldn't eat potassium rich foods & need lots of salt.) I know when I first wake up in the morning, all I want to do is chug down 2 pints of water, but I have to wait until I get a good amount of salt in my system.
When I first wake in the morning, I cook eggs & salt them very heavily - after I eat them, then I can drink water, but plain water on an empty stomach is a no-no. We need *a lot* of salt. You'd be surprised how many people suffer unknowingly from some degree of adrenal fatigue - especially us sleep deprived mamas.
I'm also *almost* EBFing my 14 month old, my milk makes up about 95% of his diet, so that doesn't help with the dehydration issue.

Bottom line, our adrenals need salt, our bodies NEED salt!

Cutting out caffeine is MAJOR, as is eliminating stress, seriously eliminating it - whatever it is, negative people, high stress job, relationships, whatever, if you want to heal, you need to eliminate it. Rest is very important, we're supposed to be in bed by 10pm at the latest & sleep till 9am if possible (ha!) take any naps you can get. A sleeptime routine is also essential, going to bed & waking at the same exact times each night/morning. (I have yet to perfect this routine!)

*My doctor says that the thyroid is always affected when one is suffering from adrenal fatigue - even if it doesn't show up in testing.*

Low blood pressure is one of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue - it's even used as a diagnostic tool, I've always had low blood pressure, low body temp. too. *I went for my appointment this week (5/07) & my blood pressure was 94/50 & that's a HUGE improvement!* It actually rose 10 points after I stood up which is also HUGE since up until now, it hasn't budged when I rose from laying down to standing up - a classic sign of adrenal fatigue.

One of the diagnostic tools is to have the patient lay down, relax for 5 minutes, while laying down, take the patient's blood pressure. Then have the patient stand up & take the blood pressure reading again, if it fails to rise or drops upon standing, that's a sign that you're adrenals aren't working to their fullest capacity & it should be addressed.

A couple of fantastic books are Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000, by Dr. Poesnecker (the link is for the first edition, there's a newer one available now with the "2000" in the title) & Adrenal Fatigue, the 21st Century Stress Syndrome by J. Wilson. The first one, by Poesnecker, is much more in depth in terms of treatment & how the neuroendocrine system works, which explains *how* adrenal fatigue occurs. Here's Wilson's website.

Here is my treatment plan: ****before taking any supplements/medication to treat adrenal fatigue, an ASI saliva test is needed to determine the stage of adrenal dysfunction you are in, it's VERY important in deciding which supplements to use.****

I started out taking 1 tablet of *Mil Adregen* by '******' brand. It contains raw spleen concentrate, raw adrenal concentrate, raw thymus concentrate, citrus bioflavinoids, vitamin c, vitamin B6, vitamin B5 & zinc. I have slowly built up to 3 tablets a day, taken at meals.

I also started out taking 10mg of bioidentical *pregnenolone* by 'Pure' brand. I am currently taking 30 mg/day all in the morning. The necessary dose depends on how severe your adrenal fatigue. I'm still working up to a higher dose.
Pregnenolone is the first hormone that our bodies convert from cholesterol. It is at the top of the adrenal hormone cascade & is made into cortisol, DHEA & all of the sex hormones, estrogen, testosterone & progesterone. Pregnenolone usually has zero side effects where bioidentical DHEA supplementation can often have masculine side effects like rage & facial hair growth.

I take "*Seriphos*" by InterPlexus as needed, a proprietary blend 1000mg of phosphorylated, Serine/Ethanolamine which has a calming affect & helps take the edge off of the anciety.

Those are the supplements that my doctor gives me, aside from those listed above, I take these (with his approval.):

B-50 complex by Now brand
Magnesium citrate (powder) by Now brand
Selenium 200 mcg by Now brand
Zinc 50 mg by Solaray

HTH!


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## Metasequoia

Understanding Adrenal Function -Mercola, explains how pregnenolone is made & how it is used in the body - good article.


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## A&A

Interesting.........I have low thyroid problems, and sometimes I get dizzy if I haven't had enough salt.


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## smokeylo

I think I am well on my way to an adrenal fatigue diagnosis. I'm having blood tests run on Monday for various stuff to see if my thyroid is a problem. I did that eye test (where you see if your pupil has trouble focusing) and FAILED bigtime, and took an extensive online quiz and was rated "moderate adrenal fatigue with severe symptoms" (so, not a TON of symptoms, but those I have are strong). I am also hypoglycemic, which popped up right after my wedding 3 years ago and coincides with the other symptoms starting.

I'm hoping that this will make a big difference in my quality of life. I'm seeing a regular doctor on Monday but may try an alternative practitioner if the MD doesn't have enough info for me. What kind of doc, exactly, are you seeing?


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## Metasequoia

My doctor has a degree in Naturopathy from Bastyr, he's one of two doctors at Clymer Healing Center.

I think you're really going to need to take the bull by the horns in this situation (seeing an allopathic MD.) You can order the ASI saliva test directly from Diagnos-Techs & have it sent to your home. Then you can take the paperwork to your doctor & have him/her sign it (you need a doctor's siggy) & then do the test according to the directions. IME, if you call a lab, they're usually happy to guide you. Make sure you read all of the paperwork because there are a few things that can throw off the results, like eating within a certain amount of time before saturating the cotton ball or brushing teeth or eating anything minty, etc.

I don't know that your doctor would know what to do with the results, but the lab should send them to you & your doctor. After you get the results, you could always call Clymer (or another doctor that *really* knows adrenal fatigue) & figure out what to do. I get the feeling that it's hard to find such a doctor since my doctor gets calls from all over the world from frustrated patients.

I wouldn't waste the time with a blood test (see my results above.) The ASI test from Diagnos-Techs is $99, and it's really the only tool you need to get started on healing (that and a good doctor.)

I just went to Diagnos-Techs' website, they list the reasons for doing a saliva test over a blood test, they also have a provider directory (but when I typed in Quakertown, PA, my doctor wasn't even listed!) so take that for what it's worth. Even my chiro didn't know what to do.
They also have a client online directory which I'd guess is where you order the ASI. You can always call them, I bet you could ask a lot of questions....


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## Metasequoia

Neat, this is the first time I've puttered around on the Diagnos-Techs website, here's what it says about the Adrenal Stress Index (ASI):

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Diagnos-Techs Site*
2. Muscle & joint function
Abnormal adrenal rhythms are known to compromise tissue healing. Reduced tissue repair and increased tissue breakdown can lead to muscle and joint breakdown with chronic pain.

7. Thyroid function
The level of Cortisol at the cell level controls thyroid hormone production. Quite often, hypothyroid symptoms such as fatigue and low body temperature are due to an adrenal maladaptation.

That was really comforting to read since I've been suffering chronic muscle pain for almost 7 months now.

ETA: I had to edit a bit for copyright reasons, but please check out the Adrenal Stress Index link on the Diagnos-Techs website, interesting info & good explanations, to find it, click on the "Tests & Panels" link in the column on the left of your screen, then click on the first link, under "Adrenal Stress Index" called "Overview for Patients."


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## NocturnalDaze

I've also got adrenal fatigue as well as hypothyroidism. I had been complaining of fatigue to doctors for the last 15 years (I'm 33 now). None of them ever did a thing about it.

By the time I was finally diagnosed I was barely doing much. If I went out for the day I'd need 3 days to recuperate.

This was the result of my Diagnos-Techs saliva test:

7:00-8:00am <1 depressed (13-24nM)
11:00-noon 6 normal (5-10nM)
4:00-5:00 8 normal (3-8nM)
11:00-midnight 3 normal (1-4nM)

cortisol burden 18 (23-42)
DHEA 2 depressed (3-10ng/ml)

E2 (estradiol) 14 (Luteal Phase: 7-20 pg/ml)
P1 (progesterone) 836 (Luteal phase: 65-500pg/ml)
TTF (free testosterone) 16 (8-20pg/ml)

(The progesterone was high because I had used proges cream the month before)

I started taking Hydrocortisone in February. The dose I take is physiological, 20mg broken up over 4x a day. These small doses do not cause all of the side effects that you normally read about with hydrocortisone. This dose gives my body the cortisol that I am missing.

Since I started the hydrocortisone (and switched to 3 1/2g Armour thyroid) I feel MUCH better. I actually have energy for the first time in a long time. I am actually going to bed before 4:00 in the morning and my insomnia has pretty much disappeared. I hope I can wean myself off of the HC in the next couple of months. I may need it for life and if that's the case than so be it.

I also take 1/2 tsp of salt a day. I should really be taking more like a Tbsp a day but I can't stomache it right now. I believe that I also have low aldosterone and I need to get that tested as well. Low aldosterone causes salt wasting, the symptoms I have are leg cramps, pounding heart and breathlessness. So, I would like to get that checked soon too.

I also try to take about 3000mg of vit c a day but I always forget. I take 2.5mg of DHEA and about 100mg of Magnesium.

That's all I can think of for now. It's nice to know there are others out there who have discovered they have this. I think Adrenal fatigue is very widespread but very under diagnosed....


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## Rachel J.

Metasequioa, thanks so much for starting up this thread. I'm going to try to get my allopathic (with a natural bent) doc to help me with this. The test you mentioned sounds like a great resource.


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## Rachel J.

Just wanted to pass this along. If you're interested in buying Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000 it's much cheaper here ($20) than at Amazon ($60).


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## KMK_Mama

I go see a naturopath on Tuesday (6/5).....I'm hoping he can figure out what it wrong, although I am leaning towards Adrenal Fatigue. Is there anything I should be sure to ask? I already know I want to ask about the saliva test.

Do any of you have headaches? I have had this headache 24 hours a day/7 days a week for 14 months....it started 1 week after my son was born. It feels like my head is too full and I can feel my pulse pounding in my head at all times.

My symptoms-

Constant headache
Tired all the time
Have trouble getting out of bed in the morning
Have trouble falling asleep at night
Get a "rush" when I stand from sitting
Muscle aches
Anxiety attacks? Shortness of breath, heart pounding....started in March
I also had Hypoglycemia pretty bad while pregnant

I had an MRI last week and should get the results Monday or Tuesday.

What complicates my problem is that I have Interstitial Cystitis so taking vitamins is very hard for me as it causes extreme bladder pain....I do well on chewables and liquids, but no pills. On a GOOD night I get up about 3-5 times. BAD nights.....up to 30. This is probably what caused my problems in the first place.


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## Metasequoia

From the Diagnos-Techs website:

Quote:

The ASI™ is mostly ordered for individuals that suffer from:

* Chronic stress and related health problems
* Lack of vitality and energy
* Muscle and joint pain
* Hypoglycemia
** Migraine headaches*
* Osteoporosis
* Sleep disturbances
* Poor memory
* Alcohol intolerance
* Stress maladaptation
* Low sex drive
* Low body temperature


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## KMK_Mama




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## ledzepplon

Metasequoia: My mom has AD and my naturopath suspects that I do as well based on my symptoms. However, she said that since I'm nursing right now, she would not be comfortable supplementing with any kind of hormones, so she said I might as well save my money on the testing for now.

Did your dr say anything about hormones while nursing?


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## smokeylo

I went to the doc yesterday and they drew blood to test my thyroid. I should hear back in a few days. After describing my symptoms she said, "Well, if it's not your thyroid then we should consider that it's a *MOOD DISORDER.*."





















That seems like a really, really ridiculous conclusion to draw or option to throw out there after having spoken with me for 3 or 4 minutes. I hate MDs. Anyway, if my thyroid bloodwork comes back normal, I'll consult with a naturopath about AF.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ledzepplon* 
Metasequoia: My mom has AD and my naturopath suspects that I do as well based on my symptoms. However, she said that since I'm nursing right now, she would not be comfortable supplementing with any kind of hormones, so she said I might as well save my money on the testing for now.

Did your dr say anything about hormones while nursing?

My doctor said it was perfectly safe. I tried to look it up on Hale's site but he doesn't have anything for hormones because they're bioidentical, they're not a "medication." The way my doctor explained it, was that these are naturally occurring hormones, identical to the ones that our bodies produce & since we are lacking them, what we're doing is just replacing what *should* be there but isn't. If you think about thyroid disease, *not* treating it can be detrimental to the nursling (from what I've read) so I can't help but wonder if the same could be true for AF.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smokeylo*
I went to the doc yesterday and they drew blood to test my thyroid. I should hear back in a few days. After describing my symptoms she said, "Well, if it's not your thyroid then we should consider that it's a MOOD DISORDER.." That seems like a really, really ridiculous conclusion to draw or option to throw out there after having spoken with me for 3 or 4 minutes. I hate MDs. Anyway, if my thyroid bloodwork comes back normal, I'll consult with a naturopath about AF.

Of course it's a mood disorder, buy WHY???? Why is there a mood disorder?? Maybe because you simply don't have the tools to deal with stress, maybe because you have no cortisol or too much cortisol!

If you look up adrenal fatigue, anxiety & depression are *ALWAYS* high on the list, perhaps you should enlighten your MD.

Yea, that's the common band aid approach, don't look for the root of the problem, just fix the symptoms.







:

Keep us posted smokeylo.


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## Metasequoia

Smokeylo, I found this site which explains the misdiagnosis of Adrenal Fatigue pretty clearly.

Quote:

Diagnosing (and misdiagnosing) adrenal fatigue

To make matters worse, doctors often don't diagnose this problem. Dr. Wilson offers the example of a woman who has been to 37 doctors before finally receiving proper diagnosis and a renewed sense of hope. So, why don't doctors recognize adrenal fatigue? In medical school, they are only taught to look for extreme adrenal malfunction -- Addison's Disease, which occurs when the glands produce far too little cortisol, and Cushing's Syndrome, which stems from excessive cortisol production. They check adrenal function by testing ACTH levels, using a bell curve to recognize abnormal levels. This is where the problem occurs. ACTH tests only consider the top and bottom 2 percent of the curve abnormal, yet symptoms of adrenal malfunction occur after 15 percent of the mean on both sides of the curve. In other words, your adrenal glands can be functioning 20 percent below the mean and the rest of your body experiencing symptoms of adrenal fatigue, yet most mainstream physicians won't recognize that you have a problem.


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## KMK_Mama

So I went to the naturopath today. He said he is 99% sure I have Adrenal Fatigue based on my symptoms and he said thyroid problems usually coincide.
I am getting blood work done tomorrow to confirm. I have had my thyroid checked plenty of times and it always comes back fine, but he said they may not have checked T3. He is also checking, DHEA, my hormones, and for some vitamin deficiencies. He sent me home with a list of supplements to buy. He said to start out with a good vitamin and CoQ10. When we get my results back we'll go from there. He said if I wanted to start taking an adrenal supplement I could and wrote down what one to get, but they didn't have it at Sprouts. My MRI results came back fine.

Oh yeah, he also said I *could* get the saliva test for adrenal fatigue if I wanted, but that he probably doesn't need it as he feels confident that I have it. Are there any benefits of getting it if you are already pretty sure you have it?

Is there anything else I am missing that I should look into?


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## smokeylo

Thanks for the confidence boost, ladies! Docs can really







me. I will let you know what the thyroid results are, and I will be looking around for a naturopath to consult w/.

About how much do their services run? I doubt that they are covered by my insurance.


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## ledzepplon

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
My doctor said it was perfectly safe.

Thanks! It sounds like you found an awesome doc.


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## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ledzepplon* 
Metasequoia: My mom has AD and my naturopath suspects that I do as well based on my symptoms. However, she said that since I'm nursing right now, she would not be comfortable supplementing with any kind of hormones, so she said I might as well save my money on the testing for now.

Did your dr say anything about hormones while nursing?

I'm not sure what hormones you plan on taking but I am currently pregnant and I'm still taking the Hydrocortisone. According the book I have "Safe Uses of Cortisol" it is safe to take (in very low doses) while pregnant. I do plan on continuing it while nursing.

From what I understand very little of it passes to breastmilk. It's just replacing a hormone that I am missing and it is bioidentical to the cortisol that our bodies should be producing.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KMK_Mama* 
So I went to the naturopath today. He said he is 99% sure I have Adrenal Fatigue based on my symptoms and he said thyroid problems usually coincide.
I am getting blood work done tomorrow to confirm. I have had my thyroid checked plenty of times and it always comes back fine, but he said they may not have checked T3. He is also checking, DHEA, my hormones, and for some vitamin deficiencies. He sent me home with a list of supplements to buy. He said to start out with a good vitamin and CoQ10. When we get my results back we'll go from there. He said if I wanted to start taking an adrenal supplement I could and wrote down what one to get, but they didn't have it at Sprouts. My MRI results came back fine.

Oh yeah, he also said I *could* get the saliva test for adrenal fatigue if I wanted, but that he probably doesn't need it as he feels confident that I have it. Are there any benefits of getting it if you are already pretty sure you have it?

Is there anything else I am missing that I should look into?

Take a look at the differences in the first post between my blood test results & my saliva test results. That's good news that your doc accepts that you are suffering from Adrenal Fatigue, but it sounds like he/she doesn't realize that you need to figure out what stage you're in. In the beginning, during the "fight or flight" response, you're producing loads of cortisol, as it progresses, your body can't keep up with the high demand for cortisol so it starts converting everything that comes in into cortisol.
Your body needs cholesterol, the first hormone your body makes from cholesterol is pregnenolone. Pregnenolone is further made into cortisol, aldosterone, DHEA & the sex hormones - your body manufactures whichever hormone is the first priority, so if it thinks it needs cortisol, it'll skip the DHEA, etc to make cortisol. Eventually, when you get in the later stages, your cortisol levels become very low - DHEA being low could be a sign of either mild, moderate or severe Adrenal Fatigue but you'll never know without a saliva test that measures your levels throughout the day.

My doctor wouldn't do anything until he had my saliva results back (even though he had my blood results from a different doctor), after that he came up with a treatment plan.

Your thyroid tests may *never* show anything abnormal, the adrenals & the thyroid are so interconnected, when the adrenals aren't functioning properly, there is almost *always* thyroid dysfunction.

My advice would be to just read as much as you can - try to get your hands on Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000 by Gerald Poesnecker.


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## lost&foundmom

Thank you so much for starting this thread. I read the list of symptoms and it's like a checklist for me. I had never even heard of AF before. Lots to read up on. Thanks for all the great resources. I think I'm going to do the saliva test. I thought I was just exhausted from my kiddos, but it would be so nice to have energy.


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## 2bluefish

I was diagnosed with severe adrenal fatigue after the birth of my 1st daughter 2.5 years ago. I was treated by Dr. Go at the Optimal Wellness Center - Dr. Mercola's office - www.mercola.com. Dietary changes, stress reduction and supplements helped alot, but what has helped the most is I discovered back in November that I am intolerant to gluten. Once I stopped eating gluten, my health improved by leaps and bounds. The AF was actually secondary to the fact that I'm intolerant to gluten. I have been diagnosed as celiac, but strongly suspect I am after reading "Wheat Free, Worry Free". When a celiac eats gluten, it puts the body in a constant stress state - making it much harder for the adrenals to heal. Dr. Mercola's office actually said I was a protein type and wanted me to give up grain period - but I found that too hard to live with. Cutting out gluten has turned out to be sufficient, and I now suspect that if I were tested again - I would be a mixed metabolic type, not a protein type. I have felt for years that I was "not quite right" and I am so glad to have some answers. Blessings to all of you as you figure out what your own body's needs are!


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## KMK_Mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Take a look at the differences in the first post between my blood test results & my saliva test results. That's good news that your doc accepts that you are suffering from Adrenal Fatigue, but it sounds like he/she doesn't realize that you need to figure out what stage you're in. In the beginning, during the "fight or flight" response, you're producing loads of cortisol, as it progresses, your body can't keep up with the high demand for cortisol so it starts converting everything that comes in into cortisol.
Your body needs cholesterol, the first hormone your body makes from cholesterol is pregnenolone. Pregnenolone is further made into cortisol, aldosterone, DHEA & the sex hormones - your body manufactures whichever hormone is the first priority, so if it thinks it needs cortisol, it'll skip the DHEA, etc to make cortisol. Eventually, when you get in the later stages, your cortisol levels become very low - DHEA being low could be a sign of either mild, moderate or severe Adrenal Fatigue but you'll never know without a saliva test that measures your levels throughout the day.

My doctor wouldn't do anything until he had my saliva results back (even though he had my blood results from a different doctor), after that he came up with a treatment plan.

Your thyroid tests may *never* show anything abnormal, the adrenals & the thyroid are so interconnected, when the adrenals aren't functioning properly, there is almost *always* thyroid dysfunction.

My advice would be to just read as much as you can - try to get your hands on Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000 by Gerald Poesnecker.


Thanks for this information. That's really a great help! He said it was up to ME whether or not I wanted the saliva test because it would be $99 out of MY pocket. I told him if it was important I would do it and he basicly said it IS a better test but that we'd do the blood test first. He told me where to get the kit....apparently they have them at a compounding pharmacy around here and then the pharmacy would send the results directly to him after getting the results from the lab.

I noticed you mentioned sex hormones.....could this have anything to do with the fact that I can't orgasm during intercourse??
















I guess I need to decide whether or not I am going to do the test before I start taking any supplements huh?







:


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## maciascl

Wow! I can't even focus enough to process the 1st post. I just want to sub to the thread so hopefully I can come back & actually be able to process it soon







:


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KMK_Mama*
I noticed you mentioned sex hormones.....could this have anything to do with the fact that I can't orgasm during intercourse??
















Libido? What's that? My desire is zilch - and that's not normal for me. It's on the list of symptoms of Adrenal Fatigue - it affects our progesterone, estrogen & testosterone, add that to the fact that many of us are nursing/co-sleeping & it's amazing that any of us has more than one child.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *KMK_Mama*
I guess I need to decide whether or not I am going to do the test before I start taking any supplements huh?







:

Good idea.


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## maciascl

Quote:

I did an ASI saliva test (Adrenal Stress Index.) That should be the first step - my doctor ordered mine through DiagnosTechs lab. After that, he came up with a healing plan. Everyone is different & the saliva test is essential in finding out what phase of adrenal exhaustion you're in. It cost me $99.
I am searching the site, but I can't see how to order the test. Or does the Dr have to do that?


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## MamaMonica

Cheryl, you can order the adrenal test through canary club:
http://thecanaryclub.org/content/view/196/52/


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## tbone

subbing


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## tanyalynn

One weird thing I've noticed (and I wanted to see if anyone else had) is that my body temperature drops after I get up and start doing stuff in the morning. I found out by accident and then started checking periodically--it drops by about 0.7-0.9 deg F after I get out of bed and walk to the bathroom, wash my face, etc. This seems like the type of thing that's related. Is it, or is it just me?

2bluefish--Just this week, suspecting that my amalgam fillings have been an underlying, contributing factor to my health problems, I am trying a gluten-free, casein-free diet. I didn't expect to feel any different (I tried it because my health care provider said it would be good for me and I figured I'd give it a shot) and whoa! I started to feel significantly better in just a couple days. I mean, I can still tell I'm not normal healthy, but it was a real difference. Isn't this amazing? I was just wondering if anyone else in the thread had seen improvement with dietary changes like this, and I log on and read your post.







: It made me feel less like a nutcase (I've been having pangs lately, I think they'll subside pretty soon). So thanks for posting.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
One weird thing I've noticed (and I wanted to see if anyone else had) is that my body temperature drops after I get up and start doing stuff in the morning. I found out by accident and then started checking periodically--it drops by about 0.7-0.9 deg F after I get out of bed and walk to the bathroom, wash my face, etc. This seems like the type of thing that's related. Is it, or is it just me?


I wonder if this correlates with blood pressure dropping upon rising?

Are you sure it's not just because you are warm & cozy in your bed?









I'll have to check mine for a few days.


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## nurturedbirth

Metasequoia,

Thanks for pointing me here from the other thread. Off to read through the posts!


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## Metasequoia

I had my appointment today - blood pressure was up to 100/60 from last month's 94/50 & it climbed a bit upon standing.

I've been feeling more irritable lately & we discussed it being the pregnenolone but decided to try cutting out the B-complex first as it can overstimulate some people.

I said that when I put my arms above my head, they hurt & I couldn't tell if it was a restricted circulation kind of hurt or a stretching kind of hurt but my doctor explained that with blood pressure this low, often times there's not enough pressure to pump blood to all of the muscles - lack of blood = lack of oxygen = pain.

So for now I'm holding steady at 30mg pregnenolone, the Mil Adregen 3 Xs a day & cutting out the B complex. If I'm still overly irritable after cutting out the B, I'm supposed to stop the pregnenolone & see how I feel. Oh yea, he gave me licorice to start - Dr. Baschetti's Licorice Extract - he said it's the best available. I'm to mix it with hot milk or water & drink it first thing in the morning. (After I make sure that it's safe while BFing.)

I feel good that there was an explanation for the pain - I hope that's it.

Ex-dp is a stress, not sure how to go about getting rid of the children's father without adding even more stress. Sigh.


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## Metasequoia

Ooooo, this is neat - about the licorice:

Quote:

Take 1 cup of hot, hot water & add 4 level TBSP of licorice powder & slowly stir until dissolved. Let it cool to room temp, stirring occasionally to make sure it dissolves thoroughly.
Poor into 2 quart container & add enough cow's/goat's/coconut milk to fill container to the top.
Keep refridgerated. (Not sure how much to take! I'll have to email my doc.)

Here's the interesting part:

Quote:

*The licorice extract inhibits 11 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (11-BHOD) in the kidneys. 11-BHOD is the enzyme that inactivates cortisol. People with adrenal insufficiency do not retain enough sodium, and have an excess of potassium. The ratio between our body's sodium & potassium is like a seesaw. If one goes up, the other is down. Blocking 11-BHOD in the kidneys allows cortisol access to the mineralocorticoid receptors triggering an increased retention of sodium and a lowering of potassium. This action brings a person with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome into sodium/potassium balance, therefore, supplementing these individuals with otassium is not needed nor recommended.
The increased sodium causes the body to conserve water, which quickly increases your overall blood volume. Increased blood volume indirecty increases blood pressure by increasing the efficiency of the heart.*


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## myjo

I've known for sure I had adrenal fatigue since before ds3 was born. I didn't treat it sufficiently and when I got pregnant, I got extremely sick from the adrenal fatigue. I still haven't recovered from that pregnancy and it's been almost 3 years (still bfing).

I'm fortunate because my midwife is also an ND who graduated from Bastyr. She knows a great deal about adrenal fatigue and got me through my last pregnancy with no complications to the baby.

My problem now is that I know what helps me, but I'm so scatterbrained that I forget to do it a lot of the time. I can't afford all the supplements I need, and I can't afford to go to my ND and get tested either. So I guess I'm going to have to figure out how to get better on my own in spite of my inability to commit to a treatment plan!

I also wanted to mention that homeopathy can be extremely helpful for AF sufferers. The remedy I need now is Natrum Mur. I will have to order it in a high potency when I get the money. (Nat Mur is homeopathically potentized sea salt)

Working with a classical homeopath along with your other doctors might be helpful!


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## ChristieB

Hi, I've been folloeing this thread with interest. A lot of this sounds familiar. I have MS, so it's always hard to decifer what is causing what. But over the years, I've had a handful of drs. suggest that my adrenals might be a problem. And Lord knows I've had enough stress!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I said that when I put my arms above my head, they hurt & I couldn't tell if it was a restricted circulation kind of hurt or a stretching kind of hurt but my doctor explained that with blood pressure this low, often times there's not enough pressure to pump blood to all of the muscles - lack of blood = lack of oxygen = pain.

Wow, I've had that all my life! That I can remember, anyway. I never knew it was abnormal until dh told me. He and another PT have guessed that some hole in my colar bone (can't remember the name), where some nerves and/or muscles come through (I'm so technical







), is too small.

But this explanation makes a lot of sense. I've always had low bp, too, although for a long time I didn't realize it was a problem. So many drs. congratulated me on it. Such ignorance. I was there complaining of fatigue, and they just congratulated me on a probable cause!

So, can a person develop adrenal fatigue early in life? I've also always had low bp, a low body temp, and I've been fairly low energy since I was about 10 (with it gradually getting worse).

I have a question for those who have studied this a fair amount. Can adrenal fatigue affect blood sugar regulation? I occasionally have a high fasting number, but we can't figure out why. Otherwise my blood sugar is good. Just curious if it's connected.

Well, I'm already doing a lot of the things you mention, so I'll do more reading, and maybe try some adrenal glandular.

Thanks for starting this thread.

Christie


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## smokeylo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
One weird thing I've noticed (and I wanted to see if anyone else had) is that my body temperature drops after I get up and start doing stuff in the morning. I found out by accident and then started checking periodically--it drops by about 0.7-0.9 deg F after I get out of bed and walk to the bathroom, wash my face, etc. This seems like the type of thing that's related. Is it, or is it just me?

Tanya,
I discovered this about myself just yesterday! I'm temping for ttc purposes and took it before I went to the bathroom (97.91) and then did a few things, got back in bed, and snoozed for a minute. Then I was curious and took temp again and it was 97.84. Weird!!


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## Metasequoia

Yes, hypoglycemia is a common symptom, usually the first. My Dd1 (age 7) is showing signs of adrenal dysfunction. I asked my doctor yesterday & he said that his Dd (also 7) is also showing signs. He's also into WAP & said that he works with her on her stress/anxiety issues & how to relax & makes sure to serve lots of organ meats.


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## wendy1221

Is it safe to take DHEA while nursing?


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## cyberpriya

"I am trying a gluten-free, casein-free diet. I didn't expect to feel any different (I tried it because my health care provider said it would be good for me and I figured I'd give it a shot) and whoa! I started to feel significantly better in just a couple days. I mean, I can still tell I'm not normal healthy, but it was a real difference. Isn't this amazing? I was just wondering if anyone else in the thread had seen improvement with dietary changes like this, and I log on and read your post.







: It made me feel less like a nutcase (I've been having pangs lately, I think they'll subside pretty soon). So thanks for posting.[/QUOTE]"

I am seeing a np after getting dx'd hypothyroid. My antibodies to thyroid were thru the roof. She also feels I have adrenal fatigue. Anyway...b/c my throid antibodies were way up she suggested there was likely an underlying "irritant" in my system. I am off diary for years now and I noticed great improvement when I went off. She told me to try gluten-free living and I have been for 4 weeks now and I must say my symptoms are slowly improving. I am also taking adrenal and thyroid support supplements so it's difficult to say exactly where the improvement comes from.

this is a greta thread!
Patti


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## cyberpriya

Just one more thing....why? Why do so many of us have this adrenal fatigue? Anyone know what the suspected causes of it are? High stress lifestyle??? poor diet? Just wondering...
Patti


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
Is it safe to take DHEA while nursing?

Yes, but only after having a full ASI (adrenal stress index via saliva test.) If you're low on DHEA, it's okay to supplement bioidentically what you're lacking - but you need to make sure what your levels are & blood tests aren't reliable.

FYI: DHEA is an androgen, it often causes masculine side effects in women where as pregnenolone does not. My doctor (& Dr. Poesnecker - maybe Wilson too) use DHEA for their male patients & pregnenolone for their female patients.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cyberpriya*
Just one more thing....why? Why do so many of us have this adrenal fatigue? Anyone know what the suspected causes of it are? High stress lifestyle??? poor diet? Just wondering...

Both. We don't get enough sleep, we don't have the "village" that we're supposed to have, we're waaaay over-stressed & our diets aren't (usually) what they should be.

Think about just giving birth - most women nowadays are up taking care of other children within days!


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## wendy1221

Is there a mail order saliva test place? I live in the middle of nowhere and I guarantee there's no one nearby who does it.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
Is there a mail order saliva test place? I live in the middle of nowhere and I guarantee there's no one nearby who does it.

See post #5.


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## nurturedbirth

Woo hoo, this thread is conveniently back at the top for me.

I had my first appointment yesterday with a naturopath. Only one appointment in and this model of care is already a million times better than the conventional docs I've seen in the past. We spent 2 HOURS going through my health history. Why in the world did I not pursue this earlier?

I'm picking up my DiagnosTechs ASI collection kit from her as soon as she gets it in, then another couple weeks for the collection, mailing, and lab analysis. I'll tell you what I told her - I'm really afraid everything will come back 'normal' and I'll still have no answers. I'll update when I find out anything.


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## wendy1221

I did read post 5, and from what I can tell from what I've read, a doctor has to order the test for you.


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## NocturnalDaze

To get your kit online you have to go thorough Canary Club (they use Diagnos-techs). You order it and their doctor signs of on it. A full thyroid, adrenal and sex hormone panel costs about $141.00.

http://thecanaryclub.org/content/view/196/52/


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
I did read post 5, and from what I can tell from what I've read, a doctor has to order the test for you.

You can order through the Canary Club or you can order the test & just have your regular doc sign for it - the results would be sent to both you & your doctor. I assumed that you had a doctor (or chiro) but perhaps you don't. I've ordered tests before & just showed up at my doc's office to have her sign & it only took a minute - no need to pay for an appointment or anything. If you do have a doc, would he/she just sign for you?


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## tanyalynn

Cyberpria- My HCP thinks the mercury in my amalgams is an underlying factor that made me susceptible (hence the gluten-free, casein-free diet). I know, for me, the stress of a year of spousal unemployment and getting pregnant in the middle of said year was the straw that broke the camel's back, but I think years of pathetic eating, not slowing down and enjoying life the way I should have, and the mercury were significant factors as well. I'm actually looking to get my amalgams removed in the Jan/Feb timeframe (before that I need to a-get healthier, and b-wean the little one, earlier than I had anticipated but I think the best balance possible for all of us).

And isn't doing the hypothyroid and adrenal fatigue thing at the same time fun? (note the sarcasm). I'm with you there.

And Metasequoia, I'm learning a lot from the thread. Thanks!


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## wendy1221

My dh is a grad student. I don't have insurance. Most doctors won't see you at all if you don't have insurance. THanks for the info on the canary club.


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## nurturedbirth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
My dh is a grad student. I don't have insurance. Most doctors won't see you at all if you don't have insurance. THanks for the info on the canary club.

It doesn't need to be an MD. I have a naturopath (ND) signing mine. Considering ND's aren't even licensed in the state of Colorado, insurance is a non-issue - they're not covered. Sounds like a chiro could sign it also, I don't know any chiros that only accept insurance.

Are you sure he's not paying for insurance through the school's health center as part of his fees?


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## BusyMommy

Fascinating! My dh was dx w/this last winter by our ND. He spent big bux at our reg dr having multiple tests only to be told: "Son, you're fine. Just rest up some."

Interesting condition. He took Astragalus as his "main" supplement. He did recover now and is fine.








to all of us who are affected by it.


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## Brookesmom

Thanks so much for the Diagnos-Techs provider website. I found an MD who works with a ND and offers the saliva test and supplements, hormone testing and adrenal testing, etc. just a few miles away from me.

Off to send DH the link and explain why I need it...


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## Brookesmom

OK, I need some advice from you all. The MD in my area charges about $350 for a 40 minute initial consult and then you order your appropriate saliva and blood tests, and then about $150 for a follow up visit a month or two later with results and a plan presented to you. She doesn't bill insurance but says they will often cover a good part of the consult and blood tests if the patient self submits them.

Or there is a chiro about the same distance in the other direction on the diagnos-techs provider list that offers the test and has all the Standard Process supplements and specializes in nutrition among other things. I'm sure the inital consult is less and my insurance covers a certain amount of chiro visits every year (although I've used about 1/2 of them on a more "traditional" chiro when I strained my back moving a few months ago so I'd guess I'd have to switch chiros.)

Any advice on which of the two I should see? It seems like I'd get more out of the chiro for less $$ unless the MD is very experienced in adrenal fatigue, but if both of them can read saliva test results it might not matter and that's what I really want right now. (And to show thrifty DH that we're getting our money's worth!)

Help.... --Kelly


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## wendy1221

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nurturedbirth* 
It doesn't need to be an MD. I have a naturopath (ND) signing mine. Considering ND's aren't even licensed in the state of Colorado, insurance is a non-issue - they're not covered. Sounds like a chiro could sign it also, I don't know any chiros that only accept insurance.

Are you sure he's not paying for insurance through the school's health center as part of his fees?

Yeah, he pays for insurance for himself. Insurance for me only, not the kids, would be $800/mo. That's half his salary, before taxes.

There are 2 new ND's in our town, but their fees are astronomical. I already ordered the tests through the canary club. I tsays they won't interpret them for you, though, so I guess I'll have to see a doc. I'm planning on going to the student health clinic since they give me the student spouse discount, and if they can't help me, I guess I'll have to suck it up and pay the $300 to see the ND. That's just for the first appt. I think it's less per appt after the first.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brookesmom* 
OK, I need some advice from you all. The MD in my area charges about $350 for a 40 minute initial consult and then you order your appropriate saliva and blood tests, and then about $150 for a follow up visit a month or two later with results and a plan presented to you. She doesn't bill insurance but says they will often cover a good part of the consult and blood tests if the patient self submits them.

Or there is a chiro about the same distance in the other direction on the diagnos-techs provider list that offers the test and has all the Standard Process supplements and specializes in nutrition among other things. I'm sure the inital consult is less and my insurance covers a certain amount of chiro visits every year (although I've used about 1/2 of them on a more "traditional" chiro when I strained my back moving a few months ago so I'd guess I'd have to switch chiros.)

Any advice on which of the two I should see? It seems like I'd get more out of the chiro for less $$ unless the MD is very experienced in adrenal fatigue, but if both of them can read saliva test results it might not matter and that's what I really want right now. (And to show thrifty DH that we're getting our money's worth!)

Help.... --Kelly

$350 is outrageous! How do any doctors expect people to pay this kind of money? And then $150 for the follow-ups?!

Here's what I would do: Call Clymer Healing Center & ask how much it costs for over the phone treatment. While you're talking to them (Krista will probably answer, she's German & really nice) ask if *they* have a list of providers who know about AF. Fwiw, my awesome doctor wasn't listed on the Diagnos-Techs site!!! And he treats people all over the world!

If that is too much, I'd go with a chiro, $45 is a reasonable price for a visit, I've spent anywhere from $35-$65 for an adjustment but $45 seems to be the common cost.
It sounds like the chiro you found *might* know what he/she's doing, but my chiro also has supplements for AF & I'd self-treat before I allowed her to teat my adrenal fatigue. Even my regular doc *thinks* she knows what she's doing but the experience just isn't there. I realize how lucky I am to have found a doctor who specializes in this AND is nearby.

I'd take the chiro over the MD. And try to get the two books I listed in the first post, it's good to get a basic understnding of this so that you know if your doctor/chiro is on the right path.


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## Brookesmom

Thanks for the advice. I will do *something* this week. I need to take action!

I'd love to hear what kind of practitioner others went to and whether you had any insurance coverage but most importantly good results.

thanks, Kelly


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## Ex Libris

: After reading this thread, I just know this is my problem. Luckily I have an appt in a few days with a ND/homeopath. I almost asked my MD for a prescription for prozac. I think I'll try the testing and natural route first.

Thanks!


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## momtoNatalee

I am almost positive I have AF!!

I posted on the Thyroid thread about being "borderline" hypo....

I feel foggy brained just typing this out....

I have not had the saliva test done, but I recently had FULL (I think) blood work done adn that is how I found out about my thyroid and high cholesterol.

Is it possible to still have AF and your cortisol levels be normal??

I have all the blood test results in front of me


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoNatalee* 
Is it possible to still have AF and your cortisol levels be normal??

I have all the blood test results in front of me

If you're going by blood work, yes. Saliva tests are the only way to go for AF. Check out the different results between my blood & saliva results in the first post.


----------



## momtoNatalee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
If you're going by blood work, yes. Saliva tests are the only way to go for AF. Check out the different results between my blood & saliva results in the first post.

I see, thank you!!


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## KMK_Mama

Just thought I'd update....I went back to my doctor for my follow-up and it seems that adrenal fatigue isn't my only problem. Here is what else is wrong.

Estrogen was through the roof.
Progesterone was way too low.
Iron was low.
Thyroid was low.

He said most women have a higher progesterone than estrogen, I was the other way around. This explains why my periods last 14-18 days & why my breastmilk dried up with all my kids at 8 months







:. He also said that ALL these things cause headaches so hopefully this 15 month long headache will go away soon.

BUT, he also said that if I had gone to a "regular" doctor which I have been going to, they would just tell me everything was fine because technically everything was within normal ranges....just on the lowest of low end of normal and then the huge discrepancy in my hormones.

So, I he gave me a prescription for Armour thyroid, progesterone to take 2 weeks out of my cycle, and a list to go to the health food store with....to get iron and a bunch of herbs.


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## Metasequoia

Ahhh, the dreaded "estrogen dominance," I bet you get wicked PMS.

My sex hormones are off too, my doc says they'll level out a bit once my adrenals heal (since they are responsible for producing the sex hormones) & once I get my cycles back. Ds is 15 months & still nursing like a 3 month old. All of my sex hormones are below range.

Glad you got some answers - are you going to treat the AF too?


----------



## fishface

Quote:

BUT, he also said that if I had gone to a "regular" doctor which I have been going to, they would just tell me everything was fine because technically everything was within normal ranges....just on the lowest of low end of normal and then the huge discrepancy in my hormones.
What kind of doctor did you go to?


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## tanyalynn

I guess the estrogen/progesterone imbalance is normal for AF? One thing that prodded me to get professional help was that I seemed to have lots of estrogen (lots of eggwhitey cervical fluid) and a 6-day luteal phase, which implied not enough progesterone--and I don't know diddly-squat about hormones, I just know this isn't normal for me. Mine's started to get better, last month was an 8-day luteal phase, so I have hope of getting back to normal, sometime.


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## KMK_Mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Ahhh, the dreaded "estrogen dominance," I bet you get wicked PMS.

My sex hormones are off too, my doc says they'll level out a bit once my adrenals heal (since they are responsible for producing the sex hormones) & once I get my cycles back. Ds is 15 months & still nursing like a 3 month old. All of my sex hormones are below range.

Glad you got some answers - are you going to treat the AF too?

PMS? Not really.....I get cramps and I bleed for about 15-18 days, but I don't get moody or anything.

I am treating the AF....I am taking Cytozyme AD, CoQ10, fish oils....this is what he told me to take at my first appt.

Fishface--I saw a naturpath....after going to regular MD's for many tears with no answers.


----------



## momtoNatalee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I guess the estrogen/progesterone imbalance is normal for AF? One thing that prodded me to get professional help was that I seemed to have lots of estrogen (lots of eggwhitey cervical fluid) and a 6-day luteal phase, which implied not enough progesterone--and I don't know diddly-squat about hormones, I just know this isn't normal for me. Mine's started to get better, last month was an 8-day luteal phase, so I have hope of getting back to normal, sometime.

I have alot eggwhitey cervical fluid too, I dont know what 6-day luteal phase is....


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KMK_Mama* 
PMS? Not really.....I get cramps and I bleed for about 15-18 days, but I don't get moody or anything.

I am treating the AF....I am taking Cytozyme AD, CoQ10, fish oils....this is what he told me to take at my first appt.

Fishface--I saw a naturpath....after going to regular MD's for many tears with no answers.

Wow, good for you. In menopause (& in most cases of severe pms) the mood swings stem from estrogen dominance - I'm sure the fish oil helps with that.

I'm not familiar with Cytozyme AD, I'll have to look it up.

When in the "fight or flight" mode, our bodies put out cortisol, the stress hormone, so that we can fight the saber toother tiger or deal with the stress of being stuck in traffic. When we're constantly stressed, we run out of cortisol our bodies convert everything into it just to keep up, so we end up low on sex hormones eventually. It sounds like progesterone is the first to go in your case. Dr. Roby writes about a hormone allergy regarding progesterone - I haven't done too much research on his theory, but it might be helpful to you.


----------



## myjo

I just wondered if anyone knows if there are any other reasons for estrogen dominance besides stress and estrogen analogs in our environment (eg. plastics, chemicals, food additives, etc.)

I always thought my estrogen dominance was from the later problem (environmental). I didn't realize stress could also cause estrogen dominance. That sure explains a lot.


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## tanyalynn

MomtoNatalee--luteal phase is just the time from ovulation to when your period starts. I'm chartering per Taking Charge of Your Fertility (by Toni Weschler, what an amazing book, I learned a ton about my body, and it was weird to learn all that after having lived in my body for almost 30 yrs at that point), so I can tell when I ovulate. When I started charting and saw it was only 6 days from ovulation to menstruation, I was shocked. Typical is 12-16 days, and I was around 14 days back when I felt normal/healthy. If it's less than 10 days (I think that's the right number), it's considered a fertility problem (assuming you want to get pregnant, which although I definitely don't now, I'd like to keep the possibility for in a few years).


----------



## momtoNatalee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
MomtoNatalee--luteal phase is just the time from ovulation to when your period starts. I'm chartering per Taking Charge of Your Fertility (by Toni Weschler, what an amazing book, I learned a ton about my body, and it was weird to learn all that after having lived in my body for almost 30 yrs at that point), so I can tell when I ovulate. When I started charting and saw it was only 6 days from ovulation to menstruation, I was shocked. Typical is 12-16 days, and I was around 14 days back when I felt normal/healthy. If it's less than 10 days (I think that's the right number), it's considered a fertility problem (assuming you want to get pregnant, which although I definitely don't now, I'd like to keep the possibility for in a few years).


Thanks for explaining that, after reading so much of this thread I think I understand now why I have been having panic attacks


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:

Thanks for explaining that, after reading so much of this thread I think I understand now why I have been having panic attacks
Isn't it nice to start getting answers? I love MDC for that.


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## Pookietooth

I have hypoglycemia and low blood pressure -- mine was 88 over 50 or so last time, and that was up from a previous time of 80 over 40! My naturopath does energy testing, and she says my adrenals test weak. She wants me to take two 20 minute naps a day! hah!
I know I have adrenal fatigue. I am tired a lot, and dizzy, and get that fear thing you're talking about along with a general anxiety a lot of the time. I am taking pregnolone as a cream, but only on certain days of my cycle (8-20). It's pricey!


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## haleyelianasmom

Sorry I didn't read through this thread thoroughly, but I'm tired and need sleep... But I'm curious, how do yuo know you have adrenal fatigue? Can your doctor order the blood tests mentioned in the first post? Do you need the saliva tests? What treatments can you take while breastfeeding? What books do you suggest? I have the Diet Cure and it suggests many supplements, but I'm not sure about taking those, especially DHEA, while nursing.

I'm very stressed lately and I find myself getting highly irritated way too quickly. It is taking langer for me to "recover" from stress, too. I just feel like I'm not dealing with things well and I hate the way I've become short with my toddler, who I think is pretty high-needs and teething. yikes.

I love that MDC has a thread for everything









ETA: oh yeah, and no PPAF yet (so I'm not sure if it is related to my hormones), dd is 22 months old.


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## NocturnalDaze

You can get a blood test but the saliva test is much better. The saliva test also takes a collection during 4 different times of the day so you get a better picture of how your adrenals react throughout the day.

Some people take hydrocortisone to replace the missing cortisol. Some people go a more natural route and take supplements and eat a healthier diet (low sugar, high protien) to try to heal the adrenals.

DHEA is safe to take while nursing _if_ you need it. You should have that tested before taking any supplements for it. (The canary club saliva test does test DHEA as well.)


----------



## Metasequoia

I would take oral pregnenolone over DHEA as DHEA often has masculanizing side effects on women, including rage.
My pregnenolone isn't pricey at all, I think I posted the brand in the OP. And I *think* I answered all of your other questions (to the best of my knowledge), Chrissy, in the OP as well.

And holy frijoles Jen! 80/40, that's worse than my 90/50. I experienced a lot of dizziness after Ds was born, about a year ago, I think my adrenals were *really* suffering at that point. I couldn't even drive.


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## haleyelianasmom

What about licorice? Does that help? My "diet cure" book indicates that it does, but I don't want to spend too much. I think I'll hold off on any saliva or blood tests unless this continues and gets worse.

Is pregnenolone okay while breastfeeding?

ETA: Does anyone know if it is derived from vegetarian sources? I'm a strict vegetarian. Also, I haven't started my cycles yet. Could the hormones cause my cycles to return?
Sorry I have so many questions, I have just felt so drained lately and I'm looking for answers


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *haleyelianasmom*
What about licorice? Does that help? My "diet cure" book indicates that it does, but I don't want to spend too much. I think I'll hold off on any saliva or blood tests unless this continues and gets worse.

Is pregnenolone okay while breastfeeding?

ETA: Does anyone know if it is derived from vegetarian sources? I'm a strict vegetarian. Also, I haven't started my cycles yet. Could the hormones cause my cycles to return?
Sorry I have so many questions, I have just felt so drained lately and I'm looking for answers

The pregnenolone I'm taking is vegetarian, the brand is "Pure Encapsulations."

I am also bfing, Ds is 15 months old & gets about 90-95% of his nourishment from breastmilk, not much food intake, yes, it's safe while bfing but you should see where your levels are before taking anything.

Pregnenolone has not caused my cycles to return yet - that was a concern of mine too.

I've read conflicting things about Licorice, KellyMom has mixed views about it & all of the herbal sites I searched on said not to take it while bfing. However, my doctor is concerned about my low blood pressure & would like me to try it, but I haven't yet - not sure what I'm going to do about that.

If I were you, I'd really try to get the saliva test done & start treatment - the worse it gets the harder it is to recover. If you weren't bfing, I'd say go for the licorice.


----------



## haleyelianasmom

Thanks for the info. Maybe I'll try the tests. I might go with a DO in the area (it says he's holistic and does hormone replacement, so I'm assuming he does the saliva tests, but I'd probably have to call to find out for sure). Maybe it isn't adrenal fatigue, maybe it is... I just am terrible at night and explode at poor dd. I'm okay at handling the screaming that lasts all day, but when she acts super tired and then won't go to sleep even after nursing a lot, I become very short with her I just don't handle things well. Who know, I just want to be able to handle this better without falling apart every night







:


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## APmom2Libby

HI ladies...sorry to but in on your discussion, but I have been spending a TON of time on the stopthethyroidmadness.com website and HIGHLY suspect I have adrenal fatigue as well as possible Hasmito's. I am going to a doc on the top thyroid doc list for a complete work up and ALLLLL the labs!

But, I was hoping to go in with some good info for him to start off with. I would like to start taking my temp with a glass mercury thermometer, but I am having the hardest time finding one....does anyone know where I could get my hands on one?

Thanks so much and sorry for butting in, but I thought this would be a great place to ask this question!


----------



## NocturnalDaze

I got mine, 2 for $10, on Ebay. I couldn't find them in any stores at all.


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## Pookietooth

Does it have to be a glass mercury thermometer. I had one, but broke it and will not be getting another one!


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## NocturnalDaze

It doesn't have to be but they are the best because they are the most accurate.


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## Pookietooth

I'm doing licorice root extract, 1/4 teaspoon twice a day. My ND says not to take it after 2 pm or you won't be able to sleep.


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## wendy1221

Hey, I'm back. I sent in my spit test yesterday through the canary club. It was a lot harder to fill up those little vials than I anticipated. lol

I'm willing to bet my estrogen is high as well. I have been suicidal the week before my period since it came back a few months ago, which was my main reason for seeking help. I also have a really high libido, which is weird considering my depression, but makes sense if I have too much estrogen. I saw a regular MD, she had my thyroid levels checked--came back normal--and she told me to see a therapist b/c she thought my life was too stressful (where would she get that idea? My dh is a grad student who works 10-12 hours per day 6-7 days a week, and we have 2 kids on the spectrum, and we live over 400 miles away from closest family, over 800 from our most helpful family members.) The therapist I saw told me my depression sounded hormonal and I needed to see a medical doctor to have my sex hormones checked, stress alone wouldn't cause this weird cycling depression. The MD I saw did tell me to take melatonin and magnesium before bed to try to get more sleep and to come back for more testing if it didn't help, though, so she was pretty good as well. But she takes summers off, so I won't be able to see her again until mid August.

Now I just have to figure out who to see once I get my results back. What kind of health care provider have you found to be most helpful w/ this sort of thing?

There are some ND's in town, but they're SO expensive! I have a chiropractor, but he is just a chiropractor, he doesn't deal w/ anything else. There is a practice that has an ND with a chiropractor who does acupuncture as well, but my friend was really unhappy w/ the chiropractor's personality. I usually just go to the campus clinic b/c I get a discount b/c my dh is a grad student. I usually see a nurse practitioner, but they also have family doctors, general practitioners, and gynecologists there.


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## KMK_Mama

I was just diagnosed as estrogen dominant and the doc I see said that is why I have a low sex drive. ???

I see a ND and that is what I would suggest. The one I see is in a Dr's office which all office visits are billed under the doctor in charge so I pay only a co-pay of $25. Sneaky, yes, but so awesome!

If you can't see an ND, I would go with a OB/GYN since they deal with the hormones more so than regular doctors.


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## Metasequoia

The high libido sounds like high testosterone. My estrogen is low (as is my testosterone & progesterone, heck, everything's low) & I have no libido - but Ds still nurses every 3-4 hours around the clock & no PP AF yet.


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## wendy1221

Well, I'm not sure if it's really considered high or not, but I'm in the mood at least once a week, more like all week near ovulation and twice the week before my period, which is the same time that I'm completely out of my head and depressed. It makes no sense. And that week before my period is weird, too. I'm fine all day and then bam, about 3PM, sometimes closer to 5, I just lose it and cannot function anymore.

I got 1st PP AF at 18 mos w/ ds1, 6mos w/ ds2, and at 12 mos w/ ds3, but it was 2 months apart at first, been every 28 days or so for the last 4 mos, which is also when the depression got bad. I breastfed all of my boys for over a year, Liam is still nursing (Jake just weaned a few months ago--AFTER AF started--isn't it weird that AF started so early while I was tandem nursing?)

I have read that both estrogen and testosterone can raise a woman's libido, so I guess it could be either. It might be related, but I have noticed the hair on my legs is darker than it used to be, my BO is worse, and the few hairs on my jawline that I have had to pluck ever since the awful experience I had w/ Depo Provera 9 years ago seem to be growing faster than they used to. Those could all point to high testosterone, I guess.

My other symptoms are no energy, I'm tired all the time, I don't sleep well, and I keep gaining weight, but it's all going right to my belly. I always gained weight all over and had an hourglass figure, even when I was overweight and now I'm just frumpy. I have this huge gut, but my arms and legs still look thin. I keep having people come up and ask me when my baby's due! ANd I try to exercise, but I'm too tired. I get tired just going up the stairs, which never used to happen to me. I've been riding my bike a lot, but it doesn't make me feel any better. My diet is really good.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KMK_Mama* 
I go see a naturopath on Tuesday (6/5).....I'm hoping he can figure out what it wrong, although I am leaning towards Adrenal Fatigue. Is there anything I should be sure to ask? I already know I want to ask about the saliva test.

Do any of you have headaches? I have had this headache 24 hours a day/7 days a week for 14 months....it started 1 week after my son was born. It feels like my head is too full and I can feel my pulse pounding in my head at all times.

My symptoms-

Constant headache
Tired all the time
Have trouble getting out of bed in the morning
Have trouble falling asleep at night
Get a "rush" when I stand from sitting
Muscle aches
Anxiety attacks? Shortness of breath, heart pounding....started in March
I also had Hypoglycemia pretty bad while pregnant

I had an MRI last week and should get the results Monday or Tuesday.

What complicates my problem is that I have Interstitial Cystitis so taking vitamins is very hard for me as it causes extreme bladder pain....I do well on chewables and liquids, but no pills. On a GOOD night I get up about 3-5 times. BAD nights.....up to 30. This is probably what caused my problems in the first place.

pretty much YES to all of that


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smokeylo* 
I went to the doc yesterday and they drew blood to test my thyroid. I should hear back in a few days. After describing my symptoms she said, "Well, if it's not your thyroid then we should consider that it's a *MOOD DISORDER.*."





















That seems like a really, really ridiculous conclusion to draw or option to throw out there after having spoken with me for 3 or 4 minutes. I hate MDs. Anyway, if my thyroid bloodwork comes back normal, I'll consult with a naturopath about AF.

that's because they have a lot invested in keeping you sick. if you aren't treated for AF or hypo properly, they get to see you several times a year for blood pressure, heart problems, weight problems, psychiatric problems that are really medical problems......grrrrrrrrr

Make sure you get your numbers, don't let them get away with telling you you're 'normal.' Not all labs are using the currently accepted standards, and most naturopaths are using different standards than most endos use.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
Well, I'm not sure if it's really considered high or not, but I'm in the mood at least once a week, more like all week near ovulation and twice the week before my period, which is the same time that I'm completely out of my head and depressed. It makes no sense. And that week before my period is weird, too. I'm fine all day and then bam, about 3PM, sometimes closer to 5, I just lose it and cannot function anymore.

I got 1st PP AF at 18 mos w/ ds1, 6mos w/ ds2, and at 12 mos w/ ds3, but it was 2 months apart at first, been every 28 days or so for the last 4 mos, which is also when the depression got bad. I breastfed all of my boys for over a year, Liam is still nursing (Jake just weaned a few months ago--AFTER AF started--isn't it weird that AF started so early while I was tandem nursing?)

I have read that both estrogen and testosterone can raise a woman's libido, so I guess it could be either. It might be related, but I have noticed the hair on my legs is darker than it used to be, my BO is worse, and the few hairs on my jawline that I have had to pluck ever since the awful experience I had w/ Depo Provera 9 years ago seem to be growing faster than they used to. Those could all point to high testosterone, I guess.

My other symptoms are no energy, I'm tired all the time, I don't sleep well, and I keep gaining weight, but it's all going right to my belly. I always gained weight all over and had an hourglass figure, even when I was overweight and now I'm just frumpy. I have this huge gut, but my arms and legs still look thin. I keep having people come up and ask me when my baby's due! ANd I try to exercise, but I'm too tired. I get tired just going up the stairs, which never used to happen to me. I've been riding my bike a lot, but it doesn't make me feel any better. My diet is really good.

you sound exactly like me, right down to the moods and the hourglass/weight/tummy thing.

annoying, isn't it?


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## applebtb

Wow! I am so glad to find this thread! I did the saliva test as well and was diagnosed as level 5 about a month ago. I am getting more rest and drinking more water and taking a few different supplements. My practitioner says he's never seen anybody come back in less than a year! I have most of the classic symptoms. About 2 years ago I started drinking some coffee (so not me!) just because I was able to kind of whiz through my day but I have since quit coffee and do not miss it at all! The sleep routine I am working on - not easy for a night owl mama of 2 boys! My practitioner, who is very kind, told me "If I could give you one piece of advice it would be that you need to learn to float" This simple sentence has had a profound effect! ! I also want to recommend the CD Reconnecting to the Life Force by Charles Eisenstein. I get really overwhelmed by all the nutrition recommendations I find on the web and there is just so much info! I am really looking forward to reading all these posts!


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## Metasequoia

So I decided to give the licorice a try, I've read conflicting reports about the safety for the nursling & after my BP was down again at my last visit, I decided that I needed to give it a shot.

I've been taking it for about 6-7 days now & Ds seems fine - not sure what to look for, my doctor didn't want to tell me because he knows that I'll make mountains out of molehills (like if Ds is fussy, I'll think of the licorice rather than the teething, etc.)

6 days on the licorice & my BP was only 80 over "something low." My doctor asks me what I've been doing, meaning, how have I been over-exerting my body & I said that I've been really good about not doing anything strenuous & for the most part, I've been better mentally - with the anxiety stuff. He said, "The blood pressure never lies." So now I have to figure out where I'm stressing my body, is it physical? emotional? "80 over something low" is the lowest it's been since I've started treatment & it didn't rise upon standing.

The lack of response from 4+ months of treatment is not encouraging, it leads to more health anxiety, more "what ifs," "what if it's not working because it's cancer or bone TB?" or some other unlikely (but possible!) scenario.

My muscles still hurt as severely as they have for the last 8 months, some days are worse than others & I'm desperately trying to link a mind-body connection to the cause so that I can relax about it being something physical.

We upped my pregnenolone to 40mg/day.

I'm feeling really frustrated & discouraged right now.


----------



## KMK_Mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 

The lack of response from 4+ months of treatment is not encouraging, it leads to more health anxiety, more "what ifs," "what if it's not working because it's cancer or bone TB?" or some other unlikely (but possible!) scenario.

I'm feeling really frustrated & discouraged right now.









You just summed up how I feel. For me it's only been a month, but I am on Cytozyme AD, Armour Thyroid, Iron, a vitamin, fish oils, CoQ10, natural progesterone, and DIM. I thought my headache would be gone by now. My mind keeps wandering, what I have something more serious that hasn't been caught, like cancer? Out of all my medical complaints, so far the only thing I have noticed is a smidge more energy, other than that, no improvements.


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## BellinghamCrunchie

Should I take pregnenolone if my DHEA was normal (4 and range is 3 to 10)? Also it says not to be taken when breastfeeding (we're still nursing). My cortisol burden is 15 and is considered non-adaptive, low reserves.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
Should I take pregnenolone if my DHEA was normal (4 and range is 3 to 10)? Also it says not to be taken when breastfeeding (we're still nursing). My cortisol burden is 15 and is considered non-adaptive, low reserves.

I don't know. I'm bfing Ds who nurses like a newborn & am up to 40 mg/day of pregnenolone. Do you have a ND or other holistic doc to work with?


----------



## BellinghamCrunchie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I don't know. I'm bfing Ds who nurses like a newborn & am up to 40 mg/day of pregnenolone. Do you have a ND or other holistic doc to work with?

No... I did the saliva test and am *_ahem_* self-treating. Do you think its worth it to go to an ND? The only thing that showed up as outside normal limits was the cortisol levels (all four were depressed).


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## APmom2Libby

I just had to share my experience with a doc I found on the Stopthethyroidmadness.com website.....

Here's the review on Top Thyroid Doctors that convinced me I should see this guy ASAP---

_"Dr. Fred James Schultz, MD, Family Practice Specializing in Natural Approaches to Wellness. Center for Health and Healing 2150 Manchester Road Wheaton, IL 6018. 630-933-9722. A reader tells us, "I found a doctor who prescribes Armour. He had 15 years experience in conventional medicine before following his heart and founding his current practice in 1997 where he combines alternative with conventional methods of healing. Dr. Schultz works with each patient to find solutions. He successfully treats patients who have arthritis, asthma, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, depression, headaches, eating disorders, attention deficit disorder, diabetes and many other diseases. He treats many autoimmune disorders including scleroderma, lupus, multiple sclerosis and Sjogren's. He also specializes in neuroendocrine disorders such as hypothalamic, pituitary, thyroid, adrenal, and ovarian dysfunctions such as PMS, endometriosis, fibroids and menopausal conditions. Rather than merely covering up symptoms, the functional medicine approach involves looking for reasons behind health problems and working to resolve these underlying dysfunctions. The goal is to normalize and balance body function, thereby allowing natural healing to occur. He seems to be a very caring doctor, he listens and will work with you. You can even call him by his first name. All the women in the office are very nice and caring too!!! They all have experienced "the attitude of conventional doctors" and are not willing to follow in their footsteps. He has just started me on Armour. He takes the proper thyroid tests. Free T4, Free T3, TSH, thyroid antibodies, and lots more... He has also given a few supplements to build up my thyroid tissue. Next he is going to check my adrenals and female hormones. He also does IV vitamin therapy. He truly is an answered prayer from God. At the Center for Health and Healing, they do not accept Medicare or any insurance plans. They do provide the patient with a form to send to their insurance carrier for possible reimbursement from plans with out-of-network coverage. Payment is expected at the time of service. They accept all major credit cards. I asked and I was told that PPO plans will cover a percentage of everything except for any supplements (i.e. the supplements I am taking to build my thyroid tissue). Like myself, some people feel finding a good doctor is first priority and coverage is secondary"_

AND here's my review that I just posted on my AP Mom's Group Message Board:

_"Okay, I just got back not too long ago from seeing Dr. Schultz. I can not even begin to RAVE enough about this man. He is wonderful!!!!!! Knowledgeable (VERY, VERY, VERY), kind, sympathetic, professional, non-formal, etc etc etc.... (His office is BEAUTIFUL, gorgeous, clean, and then he comes out in a Hawaiian shirt and shorts---very clean, but very approachable and informal--then the first thing he tells you is you can call him Fred, Dr. Fred, or Dr. Scultz, whatever you feel most comfortable with)

I have not felt like I was in better medical hands EVER in my life. I could go ON and ON. I took in a lot of information (not that he was dishing out tons of it or trying to shove ideas down my throat AT ALL), but he was very generous in how he explained things and completely stayed on track with the symtoms that were most concerning to me. He did avery simple exam-blood pressure, pulse, listening to my heart and lungs, looking in my ears, nose and mouth/throat, taking my temp (which was ONLY 96.7) and palpating my neck/thyroid area. He was very detailed and wrote down just about everything I told him---he did NOT make me feel silly for mentioning stuff that i though COULD be relevant---like a lot of Doctors have in the past, and he asked what I felt to be very relevant questions. I wish I could share all the info that he shared with me, but I am just NOT good at ALL at explaining detailed information like that....I understood tons of it, but it would be hard for me to put that info into words.

The best way I can describe it is---GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, YOU GOTTA GO SEE THIS GUY! HE "GETS IT"!!!!! TOTALLY GET'S IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He started me on some supplements to help my energy and depression today, and I will go back to see him in two weeks once my bloodwork/urinalysis results are back. At that time, we will then decide TOGETHER what the best plan of action is.

I can't tell you guys how RELIEVED, HOPEFUL and excited I am about this guy. He is just awesome!!!!!!!!!

Oh, and his office staff was JUST AS wonderful as him. On top of everything else, the office was absolutely gorgeous and clean, and they got me into see him 15 minutes early---I took my Mothering Magazine to read, and didn't even have time to get it open. PLUS, they had some Polycarbonate non-leaching plastic water bottles on sale for $4 each, and when I asked if they included that on my bill- the receptionist said, "Oh, no, they're on me! " So, they gave me 2 for FREE!

It was a wonderful experience and I am looking forward to healing with this guy! I HIGHLY recommend you guys give him a call. Also, he DOES see children---although he prefers not to be their Primary Care Physician. I FULLY plan to take dd to him once I get MYSELF straightened out. I will probably keep her with ***** for a PCP, but have her see him for the important stuff."_


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
No... I did the saliva test and am *_ahem_* self-treating. Do you think its worth it to go to an ND? The only thing that showed up as outside normal limits was the cortisol levels (all four were depressed).

I don't know....I know the basics of this stuff but I'm not sure I know enough to self-treat. I guess if I were to do that, I'd stick with the natural stuff (not that bioidentical pregnenolone isn't natural, but let's face it, it's not something you'd be able to find in nature, yk?) I'd be more inclined to eat a lot of organ meats from grass-fed cows & take licorice extract, but sometimes that isn't always enough.

Did you try calling Clymer (where I go) to see how much it is to do phone appointments? You already have results, so you should be able to get recommendations quickly.


----------



## BellinghamCrunchie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Did you try calling Clymer (where I go) to see how much it is to do phone appointments? You already have results, so you should be able to get recommendations quickly.

I was thinking about doing that. I guess I probably should. But I'm too tired to pick up the phone









HOW do you deal with adrenal fatigue AND a two-year-old?







: She deserves a more active, enthusiastic mom and I'm finding it hard to be that for her.


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## Pookietooth

How about emailing the clinic instead of calling, just for the preliminary info? It might be easier than phoning.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *APmom2Libby* 
I just had to share my experience with a doc I found on the Stopthethyroidmadness.com website.....


Yay!!!

So far I have been unable to find one in my area since we moved, but I self treat also.


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## nurturedbirth

I'm awaiting the results of my saliva test from DiagnosTechs, but I'm checking back here from time to time to see how everyone else is coming along.

APmom - that's great that you found a doc that you like! I grew up in Wheaton and my parents are there still.


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## Metasequoia

I have an appointment this afternoon, I've moved up to weekly appointments since my BP dropped even more.







: Buuuuut, that means almost 2 hours roundtrip in the car w/o kids, kind of peaceful if I can keep my mind from wandering.









I had a rough weekend, found a tick on Dd2 - ticks & Lyme are my phobia which, as far as I'm concerned, started this whole adrenal mess in the first place (my phobia, not ticks or Lyme) & I had an awful ocular migraine on Sunday that hit me out of nowhere like a freight train & I ended up puking & then falling asleep for an hour.) I won't be surprised today if my BP is lower than normal again. I tend to get that "health anxiety" & while I felt like I was dying during that ocular migraine, I had the "what ifs," "what it it's an aneurysm?" "brain tumor?" "Lyme?" I hate that.

I plan on bringing up some questions, I'll post back with anything interesting or potentially helpful.


----------



## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I have an appointment this afternoon, I've moved up to weekly appointments since my BP dropped even more.







: Buuuuut, that means almost 2 hours roundtrip in the car w/o kids, kind of peaceful if I can keep my mind from wandering.









I had a rough weekend, found a tick on Dd2 - ticks & Lyme are my phobia which, as far as I'm concerned, started this whole adrenal mess in the first place (my phobia, not ticks or Lyme) & I had an awful ocular migraine on Sunday that hit me out of nowhere like a freight train & I ended up puking & then falling asleep for an hour.) I won't be surprised today if my BP is lower than normal again. I tend to get that "health anxiety" & while I felt like I was dying during that ocular migraine, I had the "what ifs," "what it it's an aneurysm?" "brain tumor?" "Lyme?" I hate that.

I plan on bringing up some questions, I'll post back with anything interesting or potentially helpful.

I hope your appt. went well today and you were able to enjoy your peace and quiet in the car. I know that the anxiety issue is part of the whole adrenal fatigue thing (it's an ugly cycle, isn't it?) but just wanted to let you know that lyme isn't the total nightmare that allopathic medicine makes it to be (through their poor testing and treatments). What I mean to say is that, yes, it's bad, esp. when untreated, but it's very treatable. My sister and BIL went to a ND for a variety of problems and the doc found the bacteria that causes lyme (he can't diagnose lyme or the AMA starts suing







: ) and was able to easily treat it with a bunch of herbs and other supplements, black walnut and the like. Shortly after my sister's hip stopped bothering her and she was able to get pregnant after years of trying. Anyway, just thought I'd mention that so that you could focus your anxieties on some other health problem









I go to my doc (P.A.) tomorrow to see if she'll test and treat me for adrenal fatigue. Their office uses the Diagnos-Techs testing, probably the hormone tests, so maybe she'll be up for it. I'm not too hopeful though, since I went about an irregular heart beat I developed shortly before getting pregnant with ds2 and after a little testing (low b-12, low-normal thyroid???) she said as long as there weren't other symptoms it's just something I'll live with, like the other 1/3 of the country with this problem







: Since I started magnesium suppplements for my aching legs the irregular heart beat has gone away, as long as keep up the supplements. After a little research I found out that it's critical to heart health so, duh, I could be depleted. All that to say, if she didn't know that then I'm not to sure about her ability to treat adrenal fatigue, but she's covered by insurance so I'll start there first. I do have hope though, if she doesn't work out, that I can see the ND my sister saw (2 hours away). Dh said the other night that if it takes seeing Dr. Anderson to get my sex drive back then it'll be worth it







I guess he's tired of the worn out, unresponsive lump that I've become during sex.







I didn't used to be that way so we both know something's wrong and I'm pretty sure that it's more than just two little boys.


----------



## BeingMe

Ok, add me to the list. I met with my ND today and I have adrenal fatigue, along with some other issues. She put me on Adrenal Dessicated by Standard Process, Iodoral Iodine/Potassium supplements, Ferrum Phos cell salts, Digestive enzymes, and a homeopathic remedy. Anyone know about the adrenal support and iodine?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan* 
Ok, add me to the list. I met with my ND today and I have adrenal fatigue, along with some other issues. She put me on Adrenal Dessicated by Standard Process, Iodoral Iodine/Potassium supplements, Ferrum Phos cell salts, Digestive enzymes, and a homeopathic remedy. Anyone know about the adrenal support and iodine?

I have some info in this thread about potassium, every good piece of info I've ever read says that adrenal patients have a potassium/sodium imbalance & that sodium is what we need - not potassium, taking potassium further depletes our sodium. My doctor told me to drink salt water & to use as much salt as possible (sea salt) & to avoid high potassium foods.

RachelJ., thanks for that, it really helped me to see Lyme a different way - every other bit I read about it is SO alarmist & downright horrible, sends my adrenaline through the roof!

So, my appointment did not bring good news. I've been in an agitated state since removing the tick from my Dd on Friday night. My gut says that she's fine, I don't think the tick was embedded enough to pass anything. But, it unleashed the thoughts again - why am I not healing?

My BP showed my stress, it was higher than it's ever been, 105 laying down & 115 standing - contrary to my initial response, this is not good - it was just reflecting my mental state.

So I'm to take my Seriphos - a lot & often. I need to break this fight or flight cycle.


----------



## nurturedbirth

Woo hoo! Got my results. The good news (because it means I'm not imagining this) and bad news is that things are pretty out of whack.

7-8 am, 18, normal, range 13-24
11am-noon, <1, depressed, range 5-10
4pm-5pm, <1, depressed, range 3-8
11pm-midnight, <1, depressed, range 1-4

DHEA, 7, normal, range 3-10

This puts me in Zone 5: Non-adapted, low reserves.

Waiting for blood test results, then I'll meet again with my naturopath and get her recommendations and go from there. Looks like I'll probably need to see an MD as well to get cortisol that it seems like I could really benefit from at this point.

I feel you on the anxiety issue. Last week and this one have really sucked in that department and I have about the least stressful life of anyone I know. I can't *wait* to see some improvement in that area as well as increased energy.


----------



## Metasequoia

Hey you're DHEA looks good though - that's great news! I'm not so sure about cortisol being the best bet - my doctor hasn't suggested it & I'm in zone 7 (aka as bad as it gets.) I think the bovine organ extracts are a more natural approach, I've also heard that it's really tough to wean off of the cortisol - just some food for thought....

Congrats on feeling validated!








It's nice to be able to blame our symptoms on something, isn't it?


----------



## Kimmiepie

Hello all.









I am pretty sure I have AF. My ND told me that she was 100% sure that I had it without even taking the test (that's a bold statement!) but that I should take it anyway so that we can figure out where I am and how to treat.

So I have a question. I want to order a test but am unsure of which one is the best:

Canary Club offers this one:

Adrenal Stress Tests (four samples for cortisol and DHEA) .. This involves one saliva sample collected in the morning before breakfast, another sample collected around noon (before lunch), another around 4 p.m.
(before dinner), and another around 10 p.m. (before bed).

And Direct labs offers this one:

This profile offers an average value for DHEA in the noon to P.M. time window. It measures IgA, a marker for antibody activation of the mucosal immune system response. Also measured are Antigliadin Antibodies, a marker for reactive allergic sensitivity to a component of wheat and other foods. Either of these markers may be elevated in stress syndromes. Elevation of either marker would indicate systemic compromise resulting in gut permeability, allergic response and/or food sensitivity. Symptoms could vary widely. Includes:

DHEA-Sulfate
Cortisol - four specimens
Secretary IgA
AntiGliadin Antibodies

I want to make sure I get the one that is really going to diagnose me and not leave me with questions. Thanks!


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nurturedbirth* 
Woo hoo! Got my results. The good news (because it means I'm not imagining this) and bad news is that things are pretty out of whack.

7-8 am, 18, normal, range 13-24
11am-noon, <1, depressed, range 5-10
4pm-5pm, <1, depressed, range 3-8
11pm-midnight, <1, depressed, range 1-4

DHEA, 7, normal, range 3-10

This puts me in Zone 5: Non-adapted, low reserves.

Waiting for blood test results, then I'll meet again with my naturopath and get her recommendations and go from there. Looks like I'll probably need to see an MD as well to get cortisol that it seems like I could really benefit from at this point.

I feel you on the anxiety issue. Last week and this one have really sucked in that department and I have about the least stressful life of anyone I know. I can't *wait* to see some improvement in that area as well as increased energy.

I'm pretty sure that with a cortisol reading that is "0" during any part of the days means that you should be checked for Addison's Disease....I'm not sure if the good DHEA rules that out though?


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## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kimmiepie* 
Hello all.









I am pretty sure I have AF. My ND told me that she was 100% sure that I had it without even taking the test (that's a bold statement!) but that I should take it anyway so that we can figure out where I am and how to treat.

So I have a question. I want to order a test but am unsure of which one is the best:

Canary Club offers this one:

Adrenal Stress Tests (four samples for cortisol and DHEA) .. This involves one saliva sample collected in the morning before breakfast, another sample collected around noon (before lunch), another around 4 p.m.
(before dinner), and another around 10 p.m. (before bed).

And Direct labs offers this one:

This profile offers an average value for DHEA in the noon to P.M. time window. It measures IgA, a marker for antibody activation of the mucosal immune system response. Also measured are Antigliadin Antibodies, a marker for reactive allergic sensitivity to a component of wheat and other foods. Either of these markers may be elevated in stress syndromes. Elevation of either marker would indicate systemic compromise resulting in gut permeability, allergic response and/or food sensitivity. Symptoms could vary widely. Includes:

DHEA-Sulfate
Cortisol - four specimens
Secretary IgA
AntiGliadin Antibodies

I want to make sure I get the one that is really going to diagnose me and not leave me with questions. Thanks!









The Canary Club Diagnostechs test will do your cortisol, TSH, free T3, free T4. both antibodies and estradiol, progesterone and testosterone.

There is some debate as to whether or not saliva testing is accurate for sex hormones though.

I don't know about the other testing company...


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## Kimmiepie

Thanks Kim. You've been very helpful.

I ask because the canary club said that they did not do the Anti-TPO or TgAb for thyroid as you stated that I need.

Also, I didn't know if the Secretary IgA and AntiGliadin Antibodies were important in diagnosing adrenal fatigue. Because canary club does not offer those either. And direct labs offers all of these.


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## wendy1221

Here are my results:
Free Cortisol Rhythm
7-8AM 16 normal
11-noon 3 depressed
4-5 4 normal
11-midnight 5 elevated
cortisol burden 28 (normal)

DHEA 2 depressed

Cortisol-DHEA Correlation -2 Adapted w/ DHEA slump
Patient result interpretations
Marginal HPA axis performance during the day may be associated with suboptimal hypothalmis pacing of adrenals. Adrenal support suggested.
Midnight value is elevated suggesting a lack of sensitivity to suppression at the pituitary-hypothalmic-axis. This condition is usually associated with a tendency to endogenous depression, and REM sleep disruptions (maybe why I'm ALWAYS SO TIRED?). Phosphorylated serine derivatives are reported to optimize HPA responsiveness.

Anabolic enhancement suggested: DHEA or Pregnenolone augmentation.
Anabolic suppoert suggested.

My thyroid levels were all smack dab in the middle of normal ranges, except Triiodo-thyronine, which was 0.28, normal is 0.28-1.1

I did the test on about day 22 of my cycle, so luteal phase.
My estradiol was 16, normal is 7-20
Progesterone was 503, normal is 65-500, so high. I've read high progesterone can cause depression. And no, I was not, am not pregnant, so that would not explain the high progesterone.
Free testosterone was 18, range is 8-20

I haven't found a doc yet. I decided that until I do, I'm just going to take the damn hormones. I'm taking 10mg each of DHEA and Pregnenolone. I started about 3 days ago. I also bought better multivitamins and have started taking valerian and a higher dose of melatonin before bed. Oh, and new melatonin is time release.


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## wendy1221

Oh, I have another question. I used to take temps to chart my fertility. I don't bother anymore, but my temp was always really really low. Like 96.4. I know it's not normal, but is it related to this at all, does anyone know?


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## Kimmiepie

Wendy, Sounds to me like low thyroid (hypo). Which apparently your thyroid test can come back normal but adrenal fatigue almost always impairs thyroid function and when you get that under control the other should get better.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kimmiepie* 
Thanks Kim. You've been very helpful.

I ask because the canary club said that they did not do the Anti-TPO or TgAb for thyroid as you stated that I need.

Also, I didn't know if the Secretary IgA and AntiGliadin Antibodies were important in diagnosing adrenal fatigue. Because canary club does not offer those either. And direct labs offers all of these.

Kim, I did the ASI from DiagnosTechs & they ran those tests - the IgA & AntiGliadin Antibodies - it's more expensive when you order through the Canary Club - my doctor ordered mine but I believe you can just order the ASI directly from DiagnosTechs & just have your doctor sign it, it's only $99 for that. I can tell you everything that I had tested if you need to go that route & you're not sure that your doctor knows what to test for. Alternately, you could call DiagnosTechs, labs are usually very helpful when you're inquiring about which tests to order. The ASI has different tests within it that you can check or leave blank.

Kim (NocturnalDaze), I believe saliva testing to be much more accurate than blood for testing sex hormones. Just curious where you've read otherwise....


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
Oh, I have another question. I used to take temps to chart my fertility. I don't bother anymore, but my temp was always really really low. Like 96.4. I know it's not normal, but is it related to this at all, does anyone know?

My temps have *always* been low, my thyroid came back fine but like Kim said, adrenal fatigue affects thyroid function, even if it doesn't show up in test results.


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## Kimmiepie

Thanks Metasequoia- Sorry I haven't pm'd you back...it's been busy.









I actually don't have a dr and am doing this all on my own. So the direct labs and canary are the only ones that will let you do it without a dr signing off on it.

What I'm wondering is if the extra ones that are more expensive are really necessary in diagnosing AF?

Also, I am interested in the saliva/blood for hormones.

I need to make sure I do these tests right because I can't go back for anymore! My dh is having a cow about these as it is...he agrees with the doctors that it's "all in my head" or anxiety.







:


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## Metasequoia

KimmiePie, go to the DiagnosTechs site, click on "Tests & Panels" in the colum on the left of your screen. In the first group of tests under "Adrenal Stress Index", click on "Overview for Doctors", it lists all of the tests run in the ASI & explains the purpose of each one. The 17-Hydroxyprogesterone is important, I can't remember exactly how my doctor explained it but it was important in making sure that my low cortisol wasn't caused by a defect in my hormonal cascade (I'm explaining it really poorly, but it's important to rule out.) Really, I'd give DiagnosTechs a call tomorrow.

The Canary Club includes the sex hormone testing too, doesn't it? My adrenal doctor didn't bother testing my sex hormones & he explained that he just assumed they were out of whack because my body was turning all hormones into cortisol. I already knew that my sex hormones were low after a blood test, but I also still haven't had my postpartum AF yet & Ds nurses like a champ 24/7. He said that my sex hormone levels wouldn't rise until we fixed the adrenal problem & stopped them from being diverted elsewhere.

HTH


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## Rachel J.

I had my doctor's appointment today (what do you call an appt with a physician's assistant?). She ended up being a different one than the PA I saw last time and I liked her a lot better; younger and has cool tatoos







Stupid me, I didn't write down all my symptoms, just kept rambling them off intermitently as they popped into my head, "Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I'm cold all the time in the winter and my temp was really low when I charted my cycles." "Oh, by the way, I have no sex drive."







I mentioned that I suspected adrenal fatigue and she said she wanted to do a bunch of blood tests to look for thyroid, anemia, vit. B deficiencies, gluten intolerance, etc, etc. and if that didn't come back with any definitive answers she'd have me come by to pick up the vials for the saliva test







I can't believe I'm excited about taking a test that might diagnose adrenal fatigue. I guess I just want to be back to normal, not that I really remember what that was like, but there was a time in my life when I had enough energy to run around after a soccer ball for 90min, stay up rediculously late with my boyfriend and still keep up with a full load of classes. Just the thought of that pace now makes me tired. And it's an hour past the official adrenal fatigue bed time so I better get to sleep


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## Kimmiepie

Okay that does give me more of a clear picture. Thank you. But I'm still confused on the thyroid thing....nocturnaldaze I hope you come back.


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## Metasequoia

I'm a bad, bad girl - it's midnight & I've been sittin' here reading all of the Harry Potter threads....









Must go to bed now....


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## Whittliz

OMG!

I am SO excited I found this thread! I was recently told I have adrenal fatigue as well!








:


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## Whittliz

OK Ladies-

So, tell me what you know about miscarriage (specifically blighted ovum) and adrenal fatigue......or copper and adrenal fatigue??

From hair analysis testing 4 weeks after m/c, I have adrenal exhaustion, low progesterone, copper toxicity, estrogen dominance, all my ratios are WAY off (like the sodium/potassium) & my thyroid is not functioning well.

I had all of this done through my chiro and I'm now on a copper toxicity program full of B vitamins, organ meats, zinc and Moly-Cu. I'm also on a Mediterranean-type diet. Which means, lot of sea salt, no refined sugar or fruit, no caffeine, and always combining complex carbs with good protein. Oh, also very little dairy (except that I'm not really checking for caisen (sp?). Maybe a slice of cheese or dollop of sour cream per day.

Do you think wheat is a bad thing for me? I'm eating about 2-3 serving of sprouted bread or crackers along with my meals.


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## lazucchini

I think I've been suffering for about 4 years and have only recently heard of thyroid problems and adrenal fatigue.
I have six kids (15, 14, 9, 7, and twin 4yr olds). The last five years have been extremely stressful and hard for me. I've been pregnant or nursing (mostly two at a time) for 10 years now. I think I'm depleted in so many ways. And only in the last year and a half, I've really begun to look at what is so wrong with me. I kept telling myself that when the girls night weaned, I'd feel better. Then when they day weaned. Then when I was exercising regularly......... Well, for over a year I've been working out 3-4 times a week. I eat well, don't smoke or drink, sleep 7-9 hours a night. I've been vegan for about 14 years, was lacto-ovo for a few years prior to that.
I'm reading Eat to Live and am very interested in how it might help me to lose weight and feel better.
I had my thyroid checked a year and a half ago, but think it would be good to go have it done again and see if it's changed.
Glad to know I'm not alone in looking for answers.
peace, k


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Whittliz* 
OK Ladies-

So, tell me what you know about miscarriage (specifically blighted ovum) and adrenal fatigue......or copper and adrenal fatigue??

From hair analysis testing 4 weeks after m/c, I have adrenal exhaustion, low progesterone, copper toxicity, estrogen dominance, all my ratios are WAY off (like the sodium/potassium) & my thyroid is not functioning well.

I had all of this done through my chiro and I'm now on a copper toxicity program full of B vitamins, organ meats, zinc and Moly-Cu. I'm also on a Mediterranean-type diet. Which means, lot of sea salt, no refined sugar or fruit, no caffeine, and always combining complex carbs with good protein. Oh, also very little dairy (except that I'm not really checking for caisen (sp?). Maybe a slice of cheese or dollop of sour cream per day.

Do you think wheat is a bad thing for me? I'm eating about 2-3 serving of sprouted bread or crackers along with my meals.

Sounds like you're right on track Margie! I asked my doctor about copper excess after I read an article about it & he said that he just assumed that I had that imbalance. He didn't seem to think that it was a priority & said that my Mil-Adregen (raw bovine organ extracts) has a good amount of zinc in it.

Low progesterone is common in adrenal fatigue because your body converts all of your sex hormones into cortisol or DHEA. Couldn't low progesterone in and of itself be a cause for m/c? Sorry about that btw, I've suffered a loss before & it's really hard.









Is your dairy raw? Organ meats are GREAT for this (& generally, IMO.) If you notice that you're extra agitated or suffering from insomnia, it might be the B-complex, I was taking a B-50 complex & was horribly irritable with my Dc. My Mil-Adregen has B-vits as well, I seem to be able to tolerate that amount okay.

Gluten could be a problem *if* you have a sensitivity to it - I try to avoid it just because I think people eat too much wheat & it's not so great for us. I also soak my grains/nuts/seeds to reduce phytic acid & make sure that all of the nutrients are available to my body.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lazucchini* 
I think I've been suffering for about 4 years and have only recently heard of thyroid problems and adrenal fatigue.
I have six kids (15, 14, 9, 7, and twin 4yr olds). The last five years have been extremely stressful and hard for me. I've been pregnant or nursing (mostly two at a time) for 10 years now. I think I'm depleted in so many ways. And only in the last year and a half, I've really begun to look at what is so wrong with me. I kept telling myself that when the girls night weaned, I'd feel better. Then when they day weaned. Then when I was exercising regularly......... Well, for over a year I've been working out 3-4 times a week. I eat well, don't smoke or drink, sleep 7-9 hours a night. I've been vegan for about 14 years, was lacto-ovo for a few years prior to that.
I'm reading Eat to Live and am very interested in how it might help me to lose weight and feel better.
I had my thyroid checked a year and a half ago, but think it would be good to go have it done again and see if it's changed.
Glad to know I'm not alone in looking for answers.
peace, k

Kathy, the thyroid usually suffers during adrenal fatigue, it doesn't always show up in lab results but all of that is interconnected, thyroid, adrenal & sex hormones, if one is out of balance, the others will suffer.

Let me preface this by saying that my sister is vegan so I know to tread lightly... My doctor is a member of the Pottenger-Price Nutrition Foundation (Weston A. Price) & that's the basis of my diet as well. The most common & effective natural treatment for adrenal fatigue is to use raw bovine organ extracts.

I don't know if you eat soy, but it's a known thyroid antagonist. Fermented soy seems to be okay in moderation. I've seen soooo many people in the TF forum who have said that they were vegan or vegetarian for years & they feel that that is what caused their thyroid disease, since switching to a traditional foods diet, they feel much better.

I'm not here to argue about which diet is "right" or "best" I'm just responding with what I've learned.

Hugs to you, I can really relate to your last 10 years. Raising babies takes a real toll on our bodies.


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## wendy1221

So I was reading a bit. I still don't know much. But what stuck out is that most of what I read talked about female sex hormones being down. Considering my progesterone should have been dropping at day 20 and I took the test on day 22, my progesterone was sky high at over 500. My estradiol was in normal range, but on the high side as well (same w/ testosterone.) Does anyone here know more about this? I've done some internet searches and haven't come up with anything other than pregnancy levels, and LOW progesterone causing the types of PMS symptoms I've been having. Grrr! I'm not sure what to make of it. I can't go to the doctor b/c we have $300 in our bank account right now, and it costs more than that just for the initial visit at any doctor, naturopath or not, if you don't have insurance.







Plus, even if it did cost less, we still have half a month to go w/ that $300.


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## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kimmiepie* 

I ask because the canary club said that they did not do the Anti-TPO or TgAb for thyroid as you stated that I need.

Also, I didn't know if the Secretary IgA and AntiGliadin Antibodies were important in diagnosing adrenal fatigue. Because canary club does not offer those either. And direct labs offers all of these.


Well, now I'm confused. I've been thinking that they were the same thing. I'm sorry.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia*
Kim (NocturnalDaze), I believe saliva testing to be much more accurate than blood for testing sex hormones. Just curious where you've read otherwise....

They had a discussion about it the other day on STTM. Do you have any info that says it is better? If you do I would love to have it because I just had my friend do the Canary Club test and she really couldn't afford it all. So, I feel kind of bad that I told her to take it now. All of her results point to a pituitary problem too and I'll feel awful if the test's are wrong and she's freaking out for nothing.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Whittliz*
So, tell me what you know about miscarriage (specifically blighted ovum) and adrenal fatigue......or copper and adrenal fatigue??

I can tell you that I now believe that adrenal fatigue does cause miscarriages.









The book I have "Safe Uses of Cortisol" by Dr William Jeffries says that he had many patients with adrenal fatigue that had recurring miscarriages that were able to carry to term when they took hydrocortisone during their pregnancies.

I had 2 miscarriages last year. One at 12 weeks then another at 8 weeks. I have no idea they were blighted ovums or not though. I never had ultrasounds done. The whole time I was pregnant both times I was so unbelievably exhausted. I could really barely even function.

I'm now almost 15 weeks pregnant and I've been taking the hydrocortisone throughout this pregnancy. I feel SO much better this time around!! Cortisol is actually suppose to increase in the second trimester and I didn't increase my hydrocortisone like I should have and I could feel it this past week. I upped my dose and I'm back to normal again.


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## Kimmiepie

Okay so now I'm confused as to which tests I need again.







:


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## Pookietooth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lazucchini* 
I think I've been suffering for about 4 years and have only recently heard of thyroid problems and adrenal fatigue.
I have six kids (15, 14, 9, 7, and twin 4yr olds). The last five years have been extremely stressful and hard for me. I've been pregnant or nursing (mostly two at a time) for 10 years now. I think I'm depleted in so many ways. And only in the last year and a half, I've really begun to look at what is so wrong with me. I kept telling myself that when the girls night weaned, I'd feel better. Then when they day weaned. Then when I was exercising regularly......... Well, for over a year I've been working out 3-4 times a week. I eat well, don't smoke or drink, sleep 7-9 hours a night. I've been vegan for about 14 years, was lacto-ovo for a few years prior to that.
I'm reading Eat to Live and am very interested in how it might help me to lose weight and feel better.
I had my thyroid checked a year and a half ago, but think it would be good to go have it done again and see if it's changed.
Glad to know I'm not alone in looking for answers.
peace, k

I know Eat to Live is a vegan diet book, so it would probably fit right in with the way you have been eating. I would wonder, however, if you've already been a vegan, how much more it would help? I know there are tons of studies to support his point of view, but I would just wonder how you could replenish your body with so little fat and protein? Nursing moms use up a lot of fatty acids and minerals like calcium -- are those present in his diet? Have you read Eat Fat Lose Fat, the diet book that says pretty much the opposite of his book? Not that I'm an expert - I'm someone who was a vegetarian for many years, then went back to pretty much the Standard American Diet, and now I'm doing a special diet for low blood sugar and low blood pressure that includes meat but no dairy (because I'm dairy sensitive) and it really has seemed to help. I think organ meats in particular are helpful with adrenal fatigue, although I have a really hard time eating them. I didn't mean to try to turn this into an anti-vegan or anti-vegetarian thread -- there are those who thrive on those diets, and those who feel that their bodies' nourishment is less important than their ethical beliefs -- just that there are other diets out there that can help. I used to think vegetarian was the only "healthy" alternative to fast food, etc. because it was all I was exposed to.


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## Whittliz

Thanks for everyone for the info.........& now to the hard questions. I've been on the "detox" supplements & changed diet for about 2 weeks. I skipped TTC this cycle at the request of my chiro...which by the way, was my 1st cycle post m/c.

Do you think it's a bad idea to TTC this next cycle while I'm in the healing process? My chiro has been kinda "It's up to you." I'm torn....I want to be completely healthy, but I also think that a month of rigorous changes is a huge improvement. I'm still thinking that my tests had to have been influenced negatively by the fact that I had a m/c 4 weeks before and I was physically/emotionally drained at the time of the test.









Any thoughts? Am I being irresponsible if I TTC?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Whittliz* 
Thanks for everyone for the info.........& now to the hard questions. I've been on the "detox" supplements & changed diet for about 2 weeks. I skipped TTC this cycle at the request of my chiro...which by the way, was my 1st cycle post m/c.

Do you think it's a bad idea to TTC this next cycle while I'm in the healing process? My chiro has been kinda "It's up to you." I'm torn....I want to be completely healthy, but I also think that a month of rigorous changes is a huge improvement. I'm still thinking that my tests had to have been influenced negatively by the fact that I had a m/c 4 weeks before and I was physically/emotionally drained at the time of the test.









Any thoughts? Am I being irresponsible if I TTC?

Margie,







I know that you just want to be pregnant again, but your body needs to heal. Pregnancy is hard on our bodies & even harder is staying up nursing a newborn all night long.
I have brought up my frustration to my doctor about not showing any improvement & he said, "It's only been 4-5 months." Apparently it can take 1-2 years to heal from adrenal fatigue.

I think you risk dealing with more severe adrenal fatigue after birth if you get pregnant now, JMHO. That said, I know it's tough to delay something that you want so dearly.


----------



## Whittliz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Margie,







I know that you just want to be pregnant again, but your body needs to heal. Pregnancy is hard on our bodies & even harder is staying up nursing a newborn all night long.
I have brought up my frustration to my doctor about not showing any improvement & he said, "It's only been 4-5 months." Apparently it can take 1-2 years to heal from adrenal fatigue.

I think you risk dealing with more severe adrenal fatigue after birth if you get pregnant now, JMHO. That said, I know it's tough to delay something that you want so dearly.

Thanks.....I think all of these things are quite rational, but it seems to odd to avoid pregnancy right now.







My current gut feeling is to pray for perfect timing & just trust that God is in charge....continue with regular, normal sex and see what happens. I keep telling myself, I can only get better with all the changes I've made. I mean, 5 servings of veggies a day compared to zero servings (and McDonald's regularly







) has to be a major improvement.

Thanks for letting me "talk it out."


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## NocturnalDaze

I know it's hard.

If you do get pregnant and your adrenals are not healed or being addressed then in the last trimester you actually take cortisol from the baby to use for yourself. That depletes the baby of the cortisol that it needs and can actually cause AF in your baby.

I really think that my first miscarriage stressed my body out a lot and trashed my adrenals. That is why I think I only made it 8 weeks the second time.

There are people who have Addison's disease (their bodies make very little cortisol) that get pregnant all of the time if you look at some of those message boards.

It is possible but you might have to go a less than natural route to do it because, like Metasequoia said, it does take 1-2 years for the adrenals to heal...and that is if you are doing everything right.







:


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## Ex Libris

I hope this hasn't been asked yet, but does anyone know if Zoloft helps with AF or if it's just for depression. A doctor told me that I have general anxiety disorder and prescribed Zoloft. I haven't taken it yet b/c I'd like to find a natural remedy.

However, I've been under sooo much stress since my son was born (and esp in the last couple of months) b/c he has health issues. I've been in an almost constant state of fight-flight and know that my adrenals are shot. I plan to have the testing done, but until then I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and take the Zoloft.


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## NocturnalDaze

If you have AF and/or thyroid problems then Zoloft is just going to be a Band-Aid. It's not treating th real problem....


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 
If you have AF and/or thyroid problems then Zoloft is just going to be a Band-Aid. It's not treating th real problem....









:

But that doesn't mean that I'm not tempted every other day! So far I've been trying to beat this anxiety naturally (for 7 years) & now that I know that my adrenal health is really the root of my mental health, I plan on trying to treat them (naturally.) Ikwym though, about curbing the anxiety in hopes of getting out of the fight or flight mode - it's actually something that I've been meaning to ask my ND. I have an appointment on Tuesday, I'll definitely ask & I'll post back with his input.

I have read about ADs & anti anxiety meds compromising our immune systems though - I'll post the article if I can find it. If that's the case, they're doing more harm than just being a bandage approach.


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## treehugginhippie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
2bluefish--Just this week, suspecting that my amalgam fillings have been an underlying, contributing factor to my health problems, I am trying a gluten-free, casein-free diet. I didn't expect to feel any different (I tried it because my health care provider said it would be good for me and I figured I'd give it a shot) and whoa! I started to feel significantly better in just a couple days. I mean, I can still tell I'm not normal healthy, but it was a real difference. Isn't this amazing? I was just wondering if anyone else in the thread had seen improvement with dietary changes like this, and I log on and read your post.







: It made me feel less like a nutcase (I've been having pangs lately, I think they'll subside pretty soon). So thanks for posting.

I'm just starting to read this thread so I apologize if this has already been talked about but I wanted to respond to this:

I changed my diet on my own (no NP dr or anything) so I have no idea what I'm allergic to...if anything. I cut out all dairy, grains, beans, soy and all sugar (basically I only ate all animal protein, nuts, seeds, oil and of course, fruits (very little) & veggies) for a year in an attempt to heal my gut. I had ongoing yeast issues which sparked my decision. I've never felt so good. I was so clear headed. Lots of energy. No stomach upset (bloating, gas, etc). I felt wonderful!

I've slowly been eating the things I eliminated over the last few months. My stomach has felt great so far. I thought I was "healed". Well, duh on me...since reading this thread I realize I have several of the AF symptoms that I didn't have when I was on my grain-free diet.

I guess it's time for me to go back to that diet to see if my symptoms disappear...


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## Ex Libris

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 







:

But that doesn't mean that I'm not tempted every other day! So far I've been trying to beat this anxiety naturally (for 7 years) & now that I know that my adrenal health is really the root of my mental health, I plan on trying to treat them (naturally.) Ikwym though, about curbing the anxiety in hopes of getting out of the fight or flight mode - it's actually something that I've been meaning to ask my ND. I have an appointment on Tuesday, I'll definitely ask & I'll post back with his input.

I have read about ADs & anti anxiety meds compromising our immune systems though - I'll post the article if I can find it. If that's the case, they're doing more harm than just being a bandage approach.

Thanks for the feedback. I'd love to hear what your ND has to say. I'm sooo tempted to start taking them for this stress. My ND gave me some digestive enzymes and Bach flower remedies. I just don't think those things are going to cut it.







I'll read thru this thread more carefully and see if I can't come up with some other ideas.


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## Pookietooth

I just wanted to add that I read that brewer's yeast and shiitake mushrooms can really help with adrenal recovery (along with the other stuff, not instead).


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## wendy1221

I've had lifelong anxiety issues. I think having undiagnosed Asperger's has put a lot of strain on me, and that is the root of my AF.


----------



## nurturedbirth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Hey you're DHEA looks good though - that's great news! I'm not so sure about cortisol being the best bet - my doctor hasn't suggested it & I'm in zone 7 (aka as bad as it gets.) I think the bovine organ extracts are a more natural approach, I've also heard that it's really tough to wean off of the cortisol - just some food for thought....

Congrats on feeling validated!







It's nice to be able to blame our symptoms on something, isn't it?

I'm not sure it's the best bet either,







, but I'm willing to consider it if my ND thinks it's worth exploring. I think the rationale is that it is easier for the adrenals to heal if they have no demands on them. So basically, cortisol supplementation, and I would definitely request bio-identical, suppresses the natural adrenal production but in this case it is a good thing because the "rest" gives the adrenals a chance to heal. I don't know, it's all makes me







:. I had to resort to drawing a schematic of the thyroid hormones just to keep that straight in my head.

And I think it was Kim who mentioned testing for Addison's, sorry can't get the multiple quote thing going from a few pages back. I don't know what the DHEA means in that equation either. My understanding is testing for Addison's is a ACTH test or challenge (pretty sure that's right?). Low cortisol and high ACTH is Addison's (primary, i.e. adrenal-based, hypocortisolism); low cortisol and low ACTH is secondary hypocortisolism, i.e. pituitary malfunction). So I don't have an answer either as to whether or not that's a possibility for me. I do have a grandmother with Addison's. And as a bonus my mother was recently diagnosed with hypothyroid. Hormone issues everywhere, I guess.

For everyone else: I wish I had more answers for all of your questions but I only come up with more of my own questions! We're working toward health, though, that counts for something.


----------



## Kimmiepie

Well I have ordered my blood/saliva combo kit from the canary club.

It's going to take forever to get here though, and we're going on vacation next weekend. Bah! I hope it gets here before then.

Anyway, I will post the results when I have them. There had better be something wrong as I'm tired being told it's all in my head and there's nothing wrong with me!







:


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## nurturedbirth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kimmiepie* 
Well I have ordered my blood/saliva combo kit from the canary club.

It's going to take forever to get here though, and we're going on vacation next weekend. Bah! I hope it gets here before then.

Anyway, I will post the results when I have them. There had better be something wrong as I'm tired being told it's all in my head and there's nothing wrong with me!







:

I understand that so well! I told my naturopath and one of my friends that I would cry if my tests came back all normal. If you plan on doing thyroid testing as well, remember that just being in the lab range for normal does not necessarily mean that your thyroid is healthy. The Stop the Thyroid Madness website has some good information on that.

Dana


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nurturedbirth* 
I'm not sure it's the best bet either,







, but I'm willing to consider it if my ND thinks it's worth exploring. I think the rationale is that it is easier for the adrenals to heal if they have no demands on them. So basically, cortisol supplementation, and I would definitely request bio-identical, suppresses the natural adrenal production but in this case it is a good thing because the "rest" gives the adrenals a chance to heal. I don't know, it's all makes me







:. I had to resort to drawing a schematic of the thyroid hormones just to keep that straight in my head.
.


I was terrified of taking the cortisol too. My practitioner (she's a holistic Nurse practitioner who consentrates mostly on hormones) suggested I take Isocort. From the reading I did it seemed that didn't work for a lot of people and since it actually has cortisol in it anyway I decided to go with the more pure form.

She told me it would take 2 years to heal my adrenals and the way I felt (I spent much of the time most days on the couch and I couldn't fall asleep until 4 o'clock most mornings) I decided that was the route I needed to go. I'm just not a good enough mommy without it.

I also wanted another baby and as it is my daughter will be 6 when this one is born so I didn't really feel that I had time to wait.

I'm resigned to taking it for the rest of my life anyway. I already have to do that with the Armour Thyroid I take so it doesn't really bother me.

I totally think you need to heal yourself naturally as well. Eat right, relax and all of those good things too. The thing that ticks me off is that I have access to all of the good stuff...raw milk, organic veggie farmstand, grass fed beef but I can not afford it right now









I am definately glad that I went this route though. I have my life back again!! I don't spend all day everyday yawning and wishing I was in bed!!

It is definately a personal choice though.







:


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kimmiepie* 
Well I have ordered my blood/saliva combo kit from the canary club.

It's going to take forever to get here though, and we're going on vacation next weekend. Bah! I hope it gets here before then.

Anyway, I will post the results when I have them. There had better be something wrong as I'm tired being told it's all in my head and there's nothing wrong with me!







:

OK, I got an answer from a moderator at STTM for you....

The Canary Club test only tests the TgAb. However, she recommends blood testing for antibodies because saliva is not always accurate for that. I would probably take the Canary Club test for your adrenals anyway though. If it does turn out that you have thyroid problems you do need to know where your adrenals stand if you decide that you are going to take medication to fix the thyroid.

If you just take thyroid meds without having your adrenal addressed then you stand the chance of going hyperthyroid before your meds are optimized. This applies especially to Armour.

It usually takes about 4 business days for them to send the kit.


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## Kimmiepie

Okay so the test I am taking is saliva and blood spot. It contains all the sex hormones, complete thyroid and adrenals.

What other test should I be getting other than those? Is it the anti-TPO?

Thanks so much for your help!








:


----------



## Ex Libris

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 
If you have AF and/or thyroid problems then Zoloft is just going to be a Band-Aid. It's not treating th real problem....

I understand this, but how do I get out of this horrible state I'm in right now? I'm so worried about my son, and have been for 3 years, and my body is at its limit. I feel light-headed, nauseous, and have loose bowels--classic fight or flight and I can't get out of it. My ND prescribed Bach flower remedies, but it isn't doing anything. Is there something besides an SSRI that can help lift me out of this acute state so I can work on healing my adrenals naturally?


----------



## Kimmiepie

Ugh, I'm having a bad day today.

I am SO tired but I can't go to sleep at night because of my anxiety. I feel shaky and depressed, my vision is all screwed up and I'm yelling and everyone and crying at the same time. My dh and dc went to church without me this morning because I couldn't pull myself together.

Ugh, I can't wait to get diagnosed and start looking at treatments. This is insane.


----------



## nurturedbirth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ex Libris* 
I understand this, but how do I get out of this horrible state I'm in right now? I'm so worried about my son, and have been for 3 years, and my body is at its limit. I feel light-headed, nauseous, and have loose bowels--classic fight or flight and I can't get out of it. My ND prescribed Bach flower remedies, but it isn't doing anything. Is there something besides an SSRI that can help lift me out of this acute state so I can work on healing my adrenals naturally?

Many anti-depressants take several weeks before you start feeling the effects consistently. I found this on Zoloft specifically: _"Although some symptoms may improve within a matter of days, it is important to allow four to six or even eight weeks for the medication to be fully effective. If no improvement is seen in two to four weeks, another medication can be tried."_

By 6 to 8 weeks you could have gotten your adrenal testing and begun treating the underlying problem. I am only guessing that it would be difficult to tell if you were receiving adequate adrenal treatment while on SSRI's because how can you tell if the adrenal issue is improving while the symptoms are masked? During the worst of my issues I was in the same place you find yourself now, in a constant state of being 'keyed up', combined with insomnia and depression/suicidal thoughts. If I'd been given the option of an SSRI I can't say I wouldn't have gone for it just to lessen the symptoms and give me a break long enough to have a sane thought about a long-term approach. So my personal position is neither pro or con on the Zoloft, but I wonder if you couldn't get positive results from adrenal support in the same time frame?


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## Ex Libris

Good point. I know you're right--address the underlying problem, not go for the quick fix. I guess it just feels like a matter of simplicity and ease--I can reach for the Zoloft prescription in the cabinet (easy) or research yet another thing with my very tired and overstressed brain (hard).







: I know it's silly. I'll try to buck up and study the thread. Unless someone wants to give me the cliff notes version about what to do first!


----------



## nurturedbirth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ex Libris* 
Good point. I know you're right--address the underlying problem, not go for the quick fix. I guess it just feels like a matter of simplicity and ease--I can reach for the Zoloft prescription in the cabinet (easy) or research yet another thing with my very tired and overstressed brain (hard).







: I know it's silly. I'll try to buck up and study the thread. Unless someone wants to give me the cliff notes version about what to do first!









I can only give you the cliffs notes on the steps I've gotten through so far.









1. Have any kind of doctor (MD, naturopath, chiro) order you an adrenal stress index (ASI) test kit from DiagnosTechs or order it yourself through The Canary Club. This is a saliva test.

2. Consider a general blood panel (cholesterol, electrolytes, TSH) plus at least T4, T3, free T4, and free T3. Thyroid problems and adrenal fatigue frequently go together hand in hand. Visit Stop the Thyroid Madness for more on thyroid/adrenal and some of the treatment options. They also have a good forum listed in the menu. You can order your own blood tests through Direct Labs if you don't have or can't get a doctor to order them for you. I ordered the Comprehensive Wellness Panel plus the free thyroid values.

3. Get feedback on your lab values from a trusted care provider. Adrenal problems should show up on the ASI, but keep in mind that even if your thyroid numbers come back within lab range, you may not have a healthy thyroid due to the fact that all the hormones are tied in together. It may be a challenge to convince a conventional care provider of this fact. I'm getting my primary recommendations on lifestyle, diet changes, and supplements for long-term healing from a naturopath. I've found a lot of information online about this aspect as well. If I decide to pursue hormone replacement (which I'm leaning toward at this point) I will see an MD for a prescription. This has been going on for 5+ years and while my long-term goal is healing the adrenals, I want to be more functional in the mean time as well.

And that's as far as I am at this point. In fact my post-test appointment with the naturopath isn't until Friday but I'm an information hoarder and have been researching online like crazy since I got my results, so I feel like I have a pretty good idea where I'm heading.

Hope that helps somewhat.


----------



## lazucchini

Fuhrman's Eat to Live isn't vegan, actually. Animal products are limited, but not necessarily eliminated. I'm vegan. Have been and will continue to be. I'm looking for weight loss and increased nutrition. I've eaten well for years, but I broke my leg after my twins were born and have stayed heavy since. I'm down 25 lbs and have about that to go to optimal weight. Weight loss will help my feet (I have plantar fasciitis), and I do believe it'll help with my general health too, and energy level.
I did find a lot of good advice on Christiane Northrup's site about thyroid and adrenal fatigue.
Thanks for the Price info. It doesn't work for me, though I know it does for others.
It looks to me, like increased nutrients, rest and de-stressing are key in healing our bodies.
I'm working hard at not committing to things, organizing, leading.......this is really hard for me. I'm telling everyone I'm on sabbatical. I'm trying to make decisions based on whether or not they're good for me.
We interviewed for six months to find someone to live with us and she starts next month. She's a music teacher studying to be a conductor, so she needs to be in town for a few days a week, but we'll still have Friday, Sat and Sunday to ourselves. She'll help with housework, transportation of kids to lessons, etc, and occasionally watch kids so we can go on a date. I'm excited and relieved to have help. I need it!
k


----------



## Ex Libris

Thanks, nurturedbirth, for the great overview! I'm going to get started with testing right away. I'm a researcher, too, which is part of how I ended up in this state--constant reading and researching to try and help my ds. Now I need to take care of myself . . .

Kelly


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## BeingMe

Here are my numbers. I wish it was a 4 tube test but it was only a 2, and was from ZRT.
Estradiol 1.7 Range 1.3-3.3
Progesterone 63 (low) Range 75-270
Ratio: Pg/E2 37 (low) Range Optimal: 100-500 When E2 1.3-3.3 pg/ml
Testosterone 43 Range 16-55(age dependend)
DHEAS 3.7 Range 2-23 (age dependent)
Cortisol Morning 3.4 (low) Range 3.7-9.5
Cortisol Night 0.1 (low) Range 0.4-1.0

The concern I have is that I tested when I got to sleep in an hour later than normal and tested at 10 am, and stayed up a little later at night and tested at 12:30am. I wonder what they would be like if I tested at 7am and 9pm, but the instructions said to test within an hour of waking or going to sleep.

My ND put me on Adrenal Descciated 3 pills 2x a day. Along with the before mentioned items in my other post.
Any thoughts on my numbers?


----------



## Metasequoia

I don't really know how to translate your numbers Shannyshan, since it was a 2 tube test. Your progesterone is low - are you having your cycles or are you still bfing & not having cycles? My hormones were easy to read because I'm bfing & still haven't gotten my cycles back, so no ups & downs. I don't recall what other supplements you're on - the adrenal dessicated sounds good - what's in it? Any B vits or zinc?

I had my appointment today & I was SO much more relaxed than last week (I'm in Harry Potter lala land.







) My head is in fantasy land which gives me a break from reality - who wouldn't be more relaxed? So my pressure was back down in the 90s again, not really where we want them, but it wasn't good that I was clearly stressed last week & my BP was showing it.

I inquired about Zoloft or other similar meds since we had that discussion here - my doctor said that he doesn't prescribe them, but that he gets patients who have already been down that road. I explained that I have a couple of friends who have used them for short term & have said that they saved their lives. He agreed that if someone is under a great amount of (short term) stress & gets into a "dark place" that anti depressants or anti anxiety meds can be useful - that these medications were created for short term use - as in 2 months or so. BUT, the people that seek him out usually wouldn't benefit from these kinds of meds because there is an underlying problem (adrenal fatigue) that needs to be treated.

So, he wasn't entirely against them, but he did say that he doesn't use them (afterall, he is an ND.) He was concerned that I was inquiring because I felt like I needed a medication like Zoloft, which isn't the case - although, like I said before, it has crossed my mind on numerous occasions in the past 7 years.

That was it, I go back next week.


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## sraplayas

This is me: clear adrenal fatigue (diagnosed in March of 2007), Hashimoto's hypothyroidism, hypoglycemia. I'm extended nursing my 28mo dd and on a ton of supplements, herbal tincture and take thyroid each morning. My question is, how long does it typically take for the body to heal from adrenal fatigue?


----------



## BeingMe

Metasequoia, thanks for looking at my info. Yep I am still not having a period from BF'ng...ohh I love it. I always had such terrible periods. The other supplements she gave me are Iodine/potassium, digestive enzymes, cell salts, nat mur(homeopathic remedy), and floradix. The adrenal desiccated has bovine adrenal, carrot root, and under other has clacium lactate, honey, arabic gum, and calcium stearate. I also take rainbow prenatals, nordic naturals clo, greens powder by jarrow(now and then), probiotics, and sometimes magnesium and acerola cherry extract. Wow, that's a lot.

My ND doesn't do any testing like muscle, etc. She asked for more labs: TSH free T3, EBV, fasting insulin, IgG and IgM. I got the order from my chiro so it goes through my insurance. I was thinking maybe I should call and ask for my lead and B vitamins to be checked as well. What do you think?????


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan*
Metasequoia, thanks for looking at my info. Yep I am still not having a period from BF'ng...ohh I love it. I always had such terrible periods. The other supplements she gave me are Iodine/potassium, digestive enzymes, cell salts, nat mur(homeopathic remedy), and floradix. The adrenal desiccated has bovine adrenal, carrot root, and under other has clacium lactate, honey, arabic gum, and calcium stearate. I also take rainbow prenatals, nordic naturals clo, greens powder by jarrow(now and then), probiotics, and sometimes magnesium and acerola cherry extract. Wow, that's a lot.

My ND doesn't do any testing like muscle, etc. She asked for more labs: TSH free T3, EBV, fasting insulin, IgG and IgM. I got the order from my chiro so it goes through my insurance. I was thinking maybe I should call and ask for my lead and B vitamins to be checked as well. What do you think?????

Maybe your D levels too. We used to take Nordic CLO & switched to Blue Ice CLO, Dd2's eczema disappeared over a course of 2 days - in the winter no less!

Magnesium is good, make sure you get enough of it - I take mag. citrate, same magnesium used in Narural Calm. You're taking two forms of calcium & "magnesium sometimes." We've been taught that calcium is the important supplement but it's really magnesium - calcium unbalanced by magnesium is NOT good for our bodies.

I wonder if you can buy Mil Adregen online - it has raw spleen, raw thymus & raw adrenal along with zinc & B-vits. If not, I think that the stuff you're taking is probably sufficient.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sraplayas*
This is me: clear adrenal fatigue (diagnosed in March of 2007), Hashimoto's hypothyroidism, hypoglycemia. I'm extended nursing my 28mo dd and on a ton of supplements, herbal tincture and take thyroid each morning. My question is, how long does it typically take for the body to heal from adrenal fatigue?

About 2 years on average.
Hey, whereabouts in Mexico are you? My exdp is from Cadereyta (Queretaro.)


----------



## *itzme*

adrenal fatigue. I have read this thread and I can relate to some of the symtoms. I read on the internet that it really isn't acknowedged by MD's. I have been really run down lately, anxiety, I don't sleep more than 3 hours at a time at night without waking up, I usually average 5-6 hours of sleep, shaky, hypothyroid (I take Synthroid.). I have been under a lot of stress...family illness, very stressful job, I keep sinus and ear "stuff" all the time. I know I don't make the best choices diet wise and I feel like I don't ever truly relax.


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## sraplayas

Metasequoia--thanks. I am going to have to read through this thread more carefully to see what supplements people are taking.

I am taking: Biotin 8mg, EVP 2,000mg, prenatals, probiotics, echinacea (temp. for mastitis), chronium pic., thyroid, flaxmeal and herbal tincture of vitex, sib. ginseng, licorice and cramp bark.

We live in Baja. But Queretero is Very beautiful--I'd like my next vacation to be there!


----------



## Rachel J.

Dh just told me that my doctor's office called today while I was napping and said that nothing came back out of the ordinary on my blood tests so she wants me to come in and get the vials for the saliva test. I'm so excited, which is kind of crazy, but at least maybe I'll get a definative answer to why I'm feeling so crappy.

I've been craving hot milk with bittersweet chocolate chips, my version of hot chocolate. Do you think I might need some mag/cal?







I know I shouldn't be eating chocolate anyway but it's going to be really hard to give it up completely if the results come back as positive for adrenal fatigue.

How long does it usually take to get the results once you send off your samples?


----------



## BellinghamCrunchie

I went to an ND after doing the saliva tests through Canary Club because everything recommended for adrenal fatigue (I am in Level 5 non-adapted low reserves cortisol burden 15) says, "do not take while breastfeeding." I wanted an ND to tell me what was okay to take.

The ND said the saliva test for adrenal function from Diagnos-Techs is very accurate, but the thyroid and hormone saliva tests aren't as accurate as blood tests. So although my saliva tests showed normal thyroid and hormonal levels, she wanted to do blood work for those things. I did the blood work two days ago and got the results yesterday. I have very low blood levels (below normal limits) of fTSH, fT4, and fT3 so she has put me on a natural thyroid supplement in addition to adrenal cortex and some vitamins. I also am anemic, according to the blood work, so she prescribed iron. She wonders how I get out of bed in the morning with everything so low (so do I).

I started taking the adrenal cortex two days ago and haven't slept in two days. I am irritable, cranky, vaguely nauseous, and extremely sleepy. I can't sleep. I only took one tablet of the 3 recommended daily of adrenal cortex. Sheesh.

I hope we can get these meds figured out so I can get some sleep and have more energy during the day. Right now I feel worse than before I started the supplements. Is this normal? Should I stop the adrenal cortex for a while? I've got to get some sleep.

She also wants me to nightwean, which I am dreading, and right now I wonder what the point is since DD is sleeping and I am not







:

To the PP that asked how long labs take:

I got the results from Diagnos-Techs through Canary Club in 12 days. I got the blood work done locally in 24 hours (although it was supposed to take up to 7 days). It really depends on what lab you are using, I think.


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## BeingMe

I take my adrenal 2 x a day in the morning and at 12 noon. Maybe you are taking yours too late in the day? I dunno much about all this, but it was just a thought.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
I went to an ND after doing the saliva tests through Canary Club because everything recommended for adrenal fatigue (I am in Level 5 non-adapted low reserves cortisol burden 15) says, "do not take while breastfeeding." I wanted an ND to tell me what was okay to take.

The ND said the saliva test for adrenal function from Diagnos-Techs is very accurate, but the thyroid and hormone saliva tests aren't as accurate as blood tests. So although my saliva tests showed normal thyroid and hormonal levels, she wanted to do blood work for those things. I did the blood work two days ago and got the results yesterday. I have very low blood levels (below normal limits) of fTSH, fT4, and fT3 so she has put me on a natural thyroid supplement in addition to adrenal cortex and some vitamins. I also am anemic, according to the blood work, so she prescribed iron. She wonders how I get out of bed in the morning with everything so low (so do I).

I started taking the adrenal cortex two days ago and haven't slept in two days. I am irritable, cranky, vaguely nauseous, and extremely sleepy. I can't sleep. I only took one tablet of the 3 recommended daily of adrenal cortex. Sheesh.

I hope we can get these meds figured out so I can get some sleep and have more energy during the day. Right now I feel worse than before I started the supplements. Is this normal? Should I stop the adrenal cortex for a while? I've got to get some sleep.

She also wants me to nightwean, which I am dreading, and right now I wonder what the point is since DD is sleeping and I am not







:

To the PP that asked how long labs take:

I got the results from Diagnos-Techs through Canary Club in 12 days. I got the blood work done locally in 24 hours (although it was supposed to take up to 7 days). It really depends on what lab you are using, I think.

I went through this back in February! At that point I had only had a blood test & was seeing a holistic doctor who believed in AF & felt that I had it because of my low DHEA, unfortunately, it wasn't her specialty. I Googled some of the supplements the doctor gave me for the adrenal fatigue, one of which is adrenal cortex (mine was "Adreno-Plus"). Here's what I found:

Quote:

Other possible side effects include a general stimulatory effect that may manifest as anxiety, irritability, and/or insomnia.

Quote:

The proper procedure is to start with a dosage lower than what is recommended on the label of most adrenal extract supplements (1/3 of the normal dosage), and then slowly increasing the dosage every two days until one notices the stimulatory effect. Once that effect is noticed then simply reduce the dosage to a level just below the level that will produce stimulation.
The label recommended 1 capsule daily, the doctor said to take 2 a day, no wonder I felt like I was on speed!

I have since found my wonderful ND adrenal specialist & I stopped taking Adreno-Plus & started taking the Mil Adregen & never felt wound up on it - and I take 3 tablets a day. Not sure why, Mil Adregen has more B6, maybe the way it's utilized in the body?

My doc has hinted around that nightweaning would be a good thing for me but when I implied that it wasn't something that I wanted to do, he never brought it up again.


----------



## Kimmiepie

Well I got my test kit today. BUT I can't do it until I'm on day 19-21 of my cycle...which fortunately is this coming monday-wednesday. Except we'll be at the beach on exactly those three days. I'm going to have to do it there which really stinks because I will have to work around tests for an entire day of vacation.









Ah well. I gotta do what I gotta do.


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## Kimmiepie

Okay I need help here!!!

As I mentioned I have to do the saliva test on either monday, tuesday or wednesday. Well then at the bottom it says you should take your BBT and they say to do it on days 1-5 (or something in that range) of your cycle! I am not keeping my saliva all the way through to the next cycle, nor am I going to wait until next cycle to start all of this. I need these results quickly.

On their site they also say you should be taking your temp under your arm. Well I can't do that because I chart with mouth numbers and I don't want to screw it all up.

Do you think I could just send in the first 3 temps of this cycle and make a note that they are oral temps? I don't want to screw it up, but I don't want to wait a million years either.







:


----------



## BellinghamCrunchie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I went through this back in February! At that point I had only had a blood test & was seeing a holistic doctor who believed in AF & felt that I had it because of my low DHEA, unfortunately, it wasn't her specialty. I Googled some of the supplements the doctor gave me for the adrenal fatigue, one of which is adrenal cortex (mine was "Adreno-Plus"). Here's what I found:

The label recommended 1 capsule daily, the doctor said to take 2 a day, no wonder I felt like I was on speed!

I have since found my wonderful ND adrenal specialist & I stopped taking Adreno-Plus & started taking the Mil Adregen & never felt wound up on it - and I take 3 tablets a day. Not sure why, Mil Adregen has more B6, maybe the way it's utilized in the body?

My doc has hinted around that nightweaning would be a good thing for me but when I implied that it wasn't something that I wanted to do, he never brought it up again.


Whew, thank you! That makes alot of sense. I'll try taking the adrenal cortex first thing in the morning, and break the capsule up so I'm just taking 1/3 to start.

The side effects you described are exactly what I'm having.


----------



## BellinghamCrunchie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kimmiepie* 
Okay I need help here!!!

As I mentioned I have to do the saliva test on either monday, tuesday or wednesday. Well then at the bottom it says you should take your BBT and they say to do it on days 1-5 (or something in that range) of your cycle! I am not keeping my saliva all the way through to the next cycle, nor am I going to wait until next cycle to start all of this. I need these results quickly.

On their site they also say you should be taking your temp under your arm. Well I can't do that because I chart with mouth numbers and I don't want to screw it all up.

Do you think I could just send in the first 3 temps of this cycle and make a note that they are oral temps? I don't want to screw it up, but I don't want to wait a million years either.







:

Yes. Don't hold the saliva.

Are you charting now? When you take your mouth temp tomorrow morning, record your mouth temp, then stick the thermo under your arm and note the temp you get. Note the difference in the temps (mouth vs armpit) and subtract the same amount from days 1-5 that you already have and give them those temps on the lab sheet. That should be pretty accurate as to what the temps were as if you had done them armpit.


----------



## Kimmiepie

Oh that's a great idea! Thanks.


----------



## Kimmiepie

Okay another question *sigh*

I either ovulated today or yesterday so my temps are going to be higher than the ones at the beginning of the cycle. So I don't know how I could adjust the earlier temps that way. Also, I seem to be running a fever (cold going around here) so now it won't be accurate at all.

If I wait until I'm not sick anymore I will definately have after O temps, so how I would I deal with that? Also, would it be so bad if I just took the first temps for this month and made them about a degree lower? That's usually how the armpit temps work right?


----------



## Brookesmom

I have my appt. with an "anti aging/bioidentical hormone/adrenal fatigue" specializing MD next Tuesday. I can't wait to find out what the test results say. I'm getting really hypoglycemic lately (more than usual) and I don't fully wake up until about 4-5 pm. This is getting so old. I wish DS would nightwean too but I'm not going to force him at this point... It's so great to find out I'm not alone. Everyone just tells me I'm tired because I have two kids under 5. I'll report back my results and supplement recommendations in a month or so after my follow up appt.

Everyone else, keep posting your test results OK?

thanks, Kelly


----------



## sraplayas

Cheers to everyone here for perservering!









I am relatively new to this thread and assuming that nursing at night interferes with the cortisol and that is why night weaning is important?

Also, how important do you think a supportive community is when dealing with AF? (i.e. good network of friends nearby, friends for dd/ds, church community, etc.) Do you think it makes a difference either way?

One of my struggles since being 8 months preggo is that I moved out of the country and haven't made any close friends in my city. I feel like that just makes it worse when feeling so low-energy and depressed/irritable. What do you all think?


----------



## Metasequoia

I think nightweaning will be really beneficial for us, that said, I'm not doing it.







Not yet at least. Ds is 16 months now, maybe around 18-20 months. It'll be such a HUGE effort, makes me tired just thinking about it. I don't have anyone to help with it either, so it'll be me with the boobs attempting to comfort Ds.









I think friends are important, I have a couple of friends who talk me down when I'm heading towards a panic attack - I don't know that what I actually have are panic attacks, I think they're just acute moments of anxiety when I read/think something horrible & can't get my mind to shut down, kwim?

I also feel SO much better after spending a few hours with some fellow mommies - being "trapped" with small children day after day is tough!

I just got back from my appointment - my BP has improved! It's still low, but it's rising as it should - it was 95 - 105 - 105. The first one was lying down (95) & upon standing it rose to 105 - this is HUGE! When I first started going it didn't rise at all! After 10 seconds it was still 105! Again, this is huge! I felt okay today (mentally, physically I'm still achey) so my BP corresponded with my mental outlook (& lack of adrenaline) I attribute this to laying on the couch/by the pool reading Harry Potter for 3 days straight.









In times of stress (like if I've been having adrenaline rushes) my BP reflects that (why my doctor always says, "The BP never lies.") For instance, 2 or 3 weeks ago, exDp came with me (45 minute drive with someone I seriously clash with) & my BP was 105 lying down, rose to 115 upon standing & continued to rise - that continual rising is a sign of stress (and in my case, those readings were a little high overall.)

My doctor upped my pregnenolone to 50mg/day. I wish I could take more licorice but it's not well documented while bfing.

I'm going to bring Dd1 to my next appointment in hopes that she'll be able to learn how to do this adjustment (not relate to AF, a pelvic/hip adjustment) since ExDp & I don't get along well enough for him to do it 2-3 times a week for me.


----------



## Brookesmom

I had my appt today and got a lot of tests ordered. I just have to do the saliva test in a couple days and send it in and go to the lab for the blood tests (thyroid, vit D, complete blood count, iron, etc). Can't wait to see the results! I have a follow up in a month.

She just said that good sleep is very important to the adrenals when I told her that DS was still night nursing 2-3 times after bedtime. He's 18 months old now so I am going to hopefully work to one night waking. She suggested a protein rich snack for him shortly before bedtime which I never thought of (duh). We'll see if that helps. Otherwise I think he's just doing it out of habit to get back to sleep... We shall see.

In the meantime I ordered "Adrenal Fatigue: The 21st Century Stress Syndrome" from Amazon. I can't wait to get it.

Yesterday DH told me, "so if all the tests come back normal, does that mean you're going to stop complaining?" Grr...







:







: Because I said I felt shaky and tired at 11:30 am Sunday and needed to eat before we went shopping. (This coming from someone who ignores his body's signs of stress and anxiety.)

--------------
Kimmiepie,

Yes, the underarm temps are about a degree lower than the oral temps, give or take... I think you could calculate it that way and they'd be pretty close.


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## krankedyann

:


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## Kimmiepie

Just wanted to update that I did my tests and mailed them out today. Now I wait...the grueling wait.

Has anyone done the ZRT tests (mine was combo saliva and blood spot)...if so how long did it take to get your results?


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## wagamama

This is interesting ... i just read the first and last pages of this thread, and noticed that so many of the posters are nursing at night. I feel that this was the cause of my demise. DS night nursed for 14 months, waking up every 2 hours or so, and it just KILLED me. I got so tired and run-down ...









DS is now 24 months, and not night-nursing, but still waking up several times a night. He falls right back asleep, but I sometimes lay awake for an hour, trying to fall back asleep. Everyone tells me to nap during the day, but I can rarely manage it -- I lay down with DS, but cannot fall asleep, even though I'm really tired.

I also tend to feel horrible in the mornings. Getting up with DS is so hard, and I'm not a very good parent at that time because I feel so terrible. I thought that it was just the lack of sleep (plus hayfever, because to complicate matters I also have that!), but after reading the symptoms of adrenal fatigue, it really sounds like me.

If you got this far, thanks for listening. I will go back and read the entire thread now!


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## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wagamama* 
This is interesting ... i just read the first and last pages of this thread, and noticed that so many of the posters are nursing at night. I feel that this was the cause of my demise. DS night nursed for 14 months, waking up every 2 hours or so, and it just KILLED me. I got so tired and run-down ...









DS is now 24 months, and not night-nursing, but still waking up several times a night. He falls right back asleep, but I sometimes lay awake for an hour, trying to fall back asleep. Everyone tells me to nap during the day, but I can rarely manage it -- I lay down with DS, but cannot fall asleep, even though I'm really tired.

I also tend to feel horrible in the mornings. Getting up with DS is so hard, and I'm not a very good parent at that time because I feel so terrible. I thought that it was just the lack of sleep (plus hayfever, because to complicate matters I also have that!), but after reading the symptoms of adrenal fatigue, it really sounds like me.

If you got this far, thanks for listening. I will go back and read the entire thread now!









s I feel for you, especially being pregnant AND having hayfever. I usually have horrible spring/summer/fall allergies but this year I started taking some local raw honey each day (yum), lots of extra vit. C, and homeopathic hayfever drops from the HFS. I've been slacking off lately but still have had very few problems (with the hayfever anyways). Oh, and my main allergy symptom was fatigue, like I hadn't slept in days even after sleeping 10 hrs at night. Maybe that's part of your fatigue issue as well.


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## Rachel J.

I got a call from the doctor's office saying that they got the results of my cortisol test and I'm going in tomorrow for a follow up. Apparently, though, one of my vials was cracked so the results are ??? I'm so disappointed/upset. I felt horrible today, so tired I could barely function. I really want to know for sure if my adrenals and hormones are messed up or if it's yet something else to go looking for.


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## wagamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 







s I feel for you, especially being pregnant AND having hayfever. I usually have horrible spring/summer/fall allergies but this year I started taking some local raw honey each day (yum), lots of extra vit. C, and homeopathic hayfever drops from the HFS. I've been slacking off lately but still have had very few problems (with the hayfever anyways). Oh, and my main allergy symptom was fatigue, like I hadn't slept in days even after sleeping 10 hrs at night. Maybe that's part of your fatigue issue as well.


Thanks for the commiseration! I have been taking some raw honey, but it's not local ... I will look into homeopathic remedies the next time I'm overseas. I'm wondering how much of my problem is simple sleep deprivation, how much is allergies and how much (if any) is adrenal fatigue. I can't get any special tests out here in Nigeria, of course.


----------



## wagamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
I got a call from the doctor's office saying that they got the results of my cortisol test and I'm going in tomorrow for a follow up. Apparently, though, one of my vials was cracked so the results are ??? I'm so disappointed/upset. I felt horrible today, so tired I could barely function. I really want to know for sure if my adrenals and hormones are messed up or if it's yet something else to go looking for.

That's really bad luck about the cracked vial ... sounds like it's the last thing you need. But it also sounds like you are so close to getting some answers. Good luck!


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## Metasequoia

Sorry Rachel J., that stinks about the cracked vial.









So Shanti_Mom posted a thread about floaters (you know, those floaty black things in your field of vision), does anyone else here have them? I read on the internet that one lady's doctor said they were caused by low blood pressure - that there wasn't enough pressure to pump enough blood into the eye or something like that.

I've always had floaters but after Ds was born in March of '06, they suddenly got much worse - around 6 weeks postpartum, at the same time that I developed other symptoms that I still have more than a year later.

Anyone else have muscle pain or itchy skin? I read that both of those are symptoms of fibromyalgia/CFS & my doctor believes that both are caused by adrenal fatigue, so, I guess that makes sense, huh?


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## Kimmiepie

Oh me me me me! The floaters are driving me mad. They did get worse too. I was just thinking about this today, convincing myself I had an eye tumor or something.

I had an 2 MRIs a year ago (for dizziness etc) and it was clear...I also had an eye exam, so I don't think there's anything wrong with those.

I didn't know floaters could be related to AF. I DO have low blood pressure a lot, esp upon standing.

I haven't gotten my results back yet, but I'm sure I have AF. I'm just sure.

Metasequoia- I used to have muscle pain a lot but not as much anymore. Not really any itchy skin though, only while pregnant. But everyone is different.


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## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 

Anyone else have muscle pain or itchy skin? I read that both of those are symptoms of fibromyalgia/CFS & my doctor believes that both are caused by adrenal fatigue, so, I guess that makes sense, huh?


Muscle pain is often a symptom of hypothyroidism. I totally agree w/ your doc about the fibro/cfs/adrenal fatigue connection. I've read that in a few different places. I've also read that hypothyroidism fits into that equation as well.


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## Metasequoia

Yep, and the thyroid is always affected in adrenal fatigue even if the results show that it is in range. Eeeeverything's connected...

Thank goddess about the floaters, their presence has really been bothering me, more than just the annoyance factor, like, what if I have this or this or this??!!!

Kimmiepie, was your muscle pain everywhere & constant? I've had mine since last November & it's in my arms & legs & is constant - I haven't had a break from it since it started.
It hurts to climb steps, wash my hair, push a shopping cart, etc. I also have muscle weakness & have lost a lot of muscle mass. I've read about loss of muscle & muscle weakness in adrenal fatigue, but not much about muscle pain.
I had a dentist appointment last fall & couldn't hold my mouth open - my jaw was shaking & my dentist told me to relax (thinking that it was anxiety) but it was really just muscle weakness.

Adrenal fatigue sucks.


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## Kimmiepie

Yeah, the floaters still freak me out even though they're probably nothing.

Most of my pain was in my neck, shoulders, back, and legs. My arms weren't as affected. It was constant.

It has gotten a lot better since I had reduced my stress...that was a huge factor for me. SO now it is not so constant. I also got the muscle weakness a lot, especially in the legs. But my neurologist said I was fine so I stopped worrying about it.

Has your dr suggested anything? Not medicine per say, but did he say it will go away or what you could do?


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## Metasequoia

He just said that it would get better as my adrenals healed & my hormone levels returned to normal. Health anxiety is what led to the "last straw" for me - how I ended up with the AF diagnosis. I drove myself insane Googling symptoms & diseases & my cortisol shot through the roof & eventually ran out. My poor body, my brain really messed it up.


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## Kimmiepie

I have health anxiety too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My dr said I was one of the worst cases he's ever seen.









It has just gotten so much better in the past month because I have really been working on it.

You wouldn't believe the illnesses I produced in myself...including true angina!!

It's a horrible thing to have. I'm so sorry you have it too.


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## Metasequoia

Thanks for the laughs Kimmiepie!







I always think my docs are just humoring me when I complain about something - I'm SO tempted to flat out ask my adrenal doc if he thinks I'm nutso.

I convinced myself that I had Lyme disease & that I was passing it to Ds (6 weeks at the time) & Dd2 (3.5 years at the time) through breastmilk. I would freak myself out so badly that all I could do was take Ds upstairs & lay down in bed with him while I had the shakes & burning skin from the cortisol being dumped into my body. Imagine if I never Googled?

Anyone else ever get that burning skin feeling, like you have a really bad sunburn all over? That symptom was one of the worst! I brought it up at my last appt. & my doc said it was common in AF, something with the cortisol affecting the nerves. I've seen it listed on anxiety sites, so it makes sense that it has to do with AF.

I have an appt. next Wednesday, I'm bringing my spinal x-rays from last summer & Dd1 so we can see if she can do my hip adjustment for me.

I've also noticed that I'm getting a few prickly chin hairs lately, I have to ask if it could be from the 50 mg of pregnenolone or just my hormones fluctuating because of BFing. Kind of an embarrassing thing to ask a hot doctor. Guess I'll have to suck it up.







I know my face will turn red.


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## Kimmiepie

I have had that burny thing only a couple of times...but I have had other nerve related issues. Particularly with my eyes, and tingling of the extremeties, shaking etc.

I have noticed a few hairs popping up here and there.







Yes, please ask your hot doctor about this.


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## BeingMe

I went intoday for my 3 week checkup after running some tests: TSH, free t3, fasting glucose and EBV. It showed I am hypoglycemic, my thyroid is low(she put me on a T3 supplement of 15mcg, although I dunno what it is other than that since she put it into the bottle), and my EBV was 387(anything abouve 22 is positive). I really dunno what to make of the EBV. So add that all to my AF, Anemia, and other stuff. She wants to do a food allergy panel from a place out of Florida(Immuno Laboratories), to see what effects me other than wheat and dairy. Because when I eat certain foods it really knocks me out energy wise. She says because it stresses my already depleted immune system. She is ordering special immune support without herbs(because I'm nursing) for the EBV. She wants me to completely nightwean but it's so hard since she is cutting her pointy teeth. She also wants me to think about completely weaning in the near future(DD is 15 months) so allow my body to recover, especially since I want another child in the not too far future(maybe get preg. in 6 months). That's a big emotional hurdle for me, it's gonna be soo tough to wean I start to cry just thinking about it, but I do believe I need to for my health. I want to at least make 18 months.
I asked her about NAET for food allergies, but she said she doesn't believe in it, that it only works short term. So I wonder if I come back with a ton of food allergies am I stuck with it for life.
So many questions.


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## Kimmiepie

Well I got my results today. BUT I CANT GET THEM!!!!







: I am so frustrated. It requires me to have a ZRT login and I don't have one and you have to call the number to get one. Well they're closed until monday. I emailed someone but don't expect to hear back over the weekend.

I was so wanting my results.


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## CharlieBrown

subbing for now.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan* 
I went intoday for my 3 week checkup after running some tests: TSH, free t3, fasting glucose and EBV. It showed I am hypoglycemic, my thyroid is low(she put me on a T3 supplement of 15mcg, although I dunno what it is other than that since she put it into the bottle), and my EBV was 387(anything abouve 22 is positive). I really dunno what to make of the EBV. So add that all to my AF, Anemia, and other stuff. She wants to do a food allergy panel from a place out of Florida(Immuno Laboratories), to see what effects me other than wheat and dairy. Because when I eat certain foods it really knocks me out energy wise. She says because it stresses my already depleted immune system. She is ordering special immune support without herbs(because I'm nursing) for the EBV. She wants me to completely nightwean but it's so hard since she is cutting her pointy teeth. She also wants me to think about completely weaning in the near future(DD is 15 months) so allow my body to recover, especially since I want another child in the not too far future(maybe get preg. in 6 months). That's a big emotional hurdle for me, it's gonna be soo tough to wean I start to cry just thinking about it, but I do believe I need to for my health. I want to at least make 18 months.
I asked her about NAET for food allergies, but she said she doesn't believe in it, that it only works short term. So I wonder if I come back with a ton of food allergies am I stuck with it for life.
So many questions.

Sorry shannyshan,







I look at it this way - nightweaning is going to be tough on my body because I'll be up a lot more during the night & weaning in general would not be good for my emotional/mental well being - so I'm not gonna do it.







It's a very personal decision, I do understand your desperation to feel better, I really do.

Is EBV Epstein Barr Virus? What are your symptoms again? My old boss had Epstein Barr in his very early 30s, he missed work for months because of it. Off to Google...


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## Kimmiepie

I got my results, but they're not at all what I expected.







My dh is just going to think it was another waste of 200.00.

Here are my results: (I was in the early stages of my luteal phase when these were done)

Estradiol (saliva) 1.8 normal is 1.3-3.3
Progesterone (saliva) 174 normal is 75-270
Ratio pg/E2 (saliva) 97 L optimal is 100-500
Testosterone (saliva) 17 normal is 16-55
DHEAS (saliva) 7.2 normal is 2-23
Cortisol morning (saliva) 4.8 normal is 3.7-9.5
Cortisol noon (saliva) 1.7 normal is 1.2-3.0
Cortisol evening (saliva) 1.1 normal is 0.7-2.5
Cortisol night (saliva) 0.4 normal is 0.4-1.0
Free T4 (bloodspot) 1.1 normal is 0.7-2.5
TSH (bloodspot) 1.8 normal is 0.5-3.0
TPO (bloodspot) 60 normal is 0-150 (borderline 70-150)

The only thing they're saying is that my testosterone is in the low normal range and of course my pg/E2 ratio (whatever that means) is low. I am so sad.







: Why do I feel SO bad all the time? I've had all bloodwork known to mankind (well a lot anyway) and I'm losing hope. I'm 26 and I'm as tired as an 80yr old woman. I also have low body temps...96's in the morning and 97s throughout the day. Even in my luteal I never go above 97 something (in the past 2 years anyway).

Does anyone have any insight into my test results? Thanks!


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## NocturnalDaze

Your results are actually not normal. They do fall in the "normal" range but the range is flawed.
*
Cortisol morning (saliva) 4.8 normal is 3.7-9.5
Cortisol noon (saliva) 1.7 normal is 1.2-3.0*

You morning cortisol should be the highest of the day. It should be much closer to the 9.5 end of the scale than the bottom. Your afternoon should be closer to the 3.0. The evening and night are where they should be towards the bottom of the range because that is when you should be winding down for the day.

Your free T4 should be in the upper 1/2 or higher in the range. Yours isn't quite there.

I don't see the free T3 on there....did you test for that?

I believe on the TPO that you should have NO antibodies. Any presence of antibodies indicates a problem. I may be wrong on that though. The low temps that you described indicate low thyroid function. I guarantee that your thyroid does need to be addressed.

I believe, though I don't know much about sex hormones, that your estradiol and testosterone are low too.

My friends results looked a lot like this. Her doc told her she has Adrenal Insufficiency.

Moderators at STTM explained to her that low adrenal function, and low sex hormones could indicate a pituitary problem. They suggested that she get an ACTH STIM and ACTH Serum test to check that.

She was also told that because her estrogen is low that she should get: Leutinizing hormones, FSH and Growth hormone testing done as well. Like I said, I don't know a lot about sex hormones so I'm not sure what this was recommended for. Sorry, I'm not much help there.

If you go to http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...nity/index.php
you can post your results in the Adrenal and/or TSH labwork section. Someone there may be able to tell you more about the other hormone ranges. you can also get other opinions about your results.

The STTM forum is closing for a week as of tomorrow. So, if you'd like them to look at them for you try to get over there today.....


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## Kimmiepie

Great, thanks, I will post it over there!

No, there was no Free T3 test.









The "dr" did say that my testosterone was low. And of course the pg/E2 ratio.

Thanks for all your help, you've been great help!


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## Kimmiepie

Okay, my dh tells me that there is a remedy for low testosterone......

eating lots of semen







:

Please tell me this is not true







:


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## NocturnalDaze

You're welcome!









I think your husband might be wrong.


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## Kimmiepie

Okay there actually *was* a T3 free test... I missed it.

3.5 normal 2.5-6.5


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## NocturnalDaze

Yup, that one is low too. T3 should be in the upper 1/3 or just above range...


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## Rachel J.

I saw my physician's assistant last week for a follow up on my results and just haven't had a chance to post about it yet. I didn't ask for a copy of my results (duh) so I don't know exact numbers but I looked at the results graphed out so I have a pretty good idea.
8am- right in the middle of the normal range
12pm- below the normal range (so something definitely not right there)
5pm- back up into the normal range
12am- the cracked vial so no results







but I'm guessing maybe a little high because I have a hard time getting to bed even though I am usually very tired when I do.

My progesterone (blood test) was a little low but she said she wouldn't treat it at that level any way. My iron panel was good 115 (normal range 10-150) and my B-12 was also toward the higher end of the normal range. She has me taking 1-2 daily of an herbal supplement called Energy Plus from Vital Nutrients.
It's 250mg american ginseng root
100mg schisandra extract
150mg polygonum multiflorum
100 mg astragalus extract 15:1
100mg atractylodes extract 15:1
50mg licorice extract
Now I need to go look up what exactly most of that stuff is









I was feeling really crappy, tired, and depressed/overwhelmed before I got my results. I can't imagine it's the supplement, I think it's just more mental finally have some sort of info, but I've been feeling a lot better since I got my results. I'm still tired but not dragging like I was. My sex drive hasn't improved much but I'm forcing myself to be interested, both for my sake, my dh and our relationship (he feels unwanted and neglected when we don't connect physically). Now I need to reread the thread and see what else I can do to support my system while breastfeeding (besides the obvious and difficult getting to bed early and cutting out the chocolate, oh how I love my bittersweet chocolate chips).


----------



## Rachel J.




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## Brookesmom

I sent my saliva test into the lab last Monday... Next Friday the 24th I get my results plus all my blood test results. The waiting is a killer. I hope there is something off to explain why I've felt so tired, something I can work on balancing.

That stop the thyroid madness forum sounds great for discussion test results. Is it back online yet? I read a bunch of articles there last week. Back to lurking for now.









--Kelly


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## bigeyes

didn't know they were offline. going to look.


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## Brookesmom




----------



## Pookietooth

So anyone else have any news? I haven't been back to my naturopath because I owe a bunch of money.


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## Kimmiepie

No new news here, unfortunately. I'm still in the process of trying to find a good doc who will take me seriously and let me have a say in my treatment etc.

I have these occasional "attacks"......and I'm not sure if they're adrenal or hypoglycemia related or not. It's *not* anxiety, I have those attacks this is totally different. And I do not believe it is a hyperthyroid attack either as my heart doesn't beat fast, and I don't sweat etc like I tend to with those.

Basically I get all shaky *inside* and have outbursts of crying because I feel so weird. My b/p feels low too. I might feel nauseated and cold and keep getting the chills. Then after a while it calms down and I feel slightly weak all over like my body has been through the wringer. Sometimes I just feel like I'm really ill or dying. Not panicking or anything, my body just feels so weird. It is the weirdest thing.

Has anyone had anything like this?







:


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## bigeyes

I have so many symptoms and I never know what to blame on adrenals, thyroid, PTSD, idiotic stunts by dh, etc.

Feeling very discouraged today.


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## BeingMe

Kimmie,
I know what you are saying. I used to get those at times, but haven't really had them since I started treatment. I believe magnesium helps too. Natural Calm makes a great one and really good before bed for helping go to sleep. Oh and Iron, you may be anemic. Make sure you ask for a ferritin test if they test you. Because now that I think back they were really bad after I hadd DD and lost too much blood(they wanted a transfusion). I was really anemic at their worst.
I think when that happens it's your body saying it's missing something. The only thing that got me through them when I had one was to sit down(which wasn't really an option since I felt really weak when they happened), and try to really relax(even though you feel like wiggin out).


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## Metasequoia

Kim, I had those feelings in the beginning - right after Ds was born - I remember feeling dizzy 24/7 for a month. One time I drove to the post office & felt so dizzy I had to sit in my car because I was afraid to drive - it was NOT hypoglycemia, I had eaten my bodyweight in nourishing foods prior to my outing. I never had the crying thing, it was purely physical for me.

In the past, like a hundred years ago, Adrenal Fatigue was just referred to as weak nerves or frazzled nerves, etc - it's really just that, our nerves are shot, cortisol totally affects our nerves.

I have an appointment next Wednesday. I had a stressful moment the other day & I could feel the adrenaline pumping through my body & I started to get the shakes - this is VERY discouraging as this is a huge tip-off that my adrenals are still weak - I guess that's a given, but I just want SOME sign of healing, ya know?

I'm also investigating nightshade foods, I've read that they can affect people with arthritis & fibromyalgia & IMO, fibro/cfs is caused by adrenal fatigue. I've been avoiding them for a few days, I'll report back with any noticeable changes.


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## Pookietooth

Kim, that sounds like hypoglycemia, but I don't know. I do hope that you feel better soon.







bigeyes. Are you in the Surviving Abuse forum, you don't have to say you are if you are, just suggesting you go there, too for support.


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## bigeyes

waiting for a year to pass so I can get there.







: All of my gazillion posts have occurred in the past few months while I've been trying to figure out what is going on with this kid.


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## Kimmiepie

Thanks guys.

I eat a mostly NT diet so I feel like I shouldn't be hypogylcemic....although yesterday was not a mostly NT day....hmmm....I'd had a very sweet latte with whip, some Newman O's, YoBaby Yogurt, FruitaBu, WOW! That's a lot of sugar. Hmmmmm that could have been my problem. I don't know, don't know a lot about hypoglycemia.

Metasequoia- yes, please let us know what you find out!

Big eyes- I'm so sorry you're having a hard time.







I have btdt with my ex and I partly blame him for my health problems. I pray that things get better for you soon.


----------



## bigeyes

thanks. I'm really thinking about giving up lately. It's too hard to try to fix problems that were created by several other people who don't even have to be here dealing with them.


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## Kimmiepie

Oh don't give up on yourself.







You can get through whatever it is. I know it is possible!! Please let me know if you need anything or want to talk.


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## bigeyes

I'm actually thinking of leaving. He refuses to see that he is part of the problem.
He blames so much on his late wife, and I pointed out to him yesterday that he now blames me.

I'm sick of it, and I don't like the sexist message he's sending to both of our kids.
If he doesn't go to counseling with us when I get the sessions moved to his day off, I am seriously going to call a lawyer. I won't be a party to this, and I am not going to put up with her crap or his any longer. When I'm gone he won't have anyone to blame.


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## Kimmiepie

When you say his "late" wife do you mean she passed away or she's still part of the picture? Feel free to pm me if you want.

ETA: I have soooo been there with the blaming thing!


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## bigeyes

SHe killed herself and dd found her. She said dh was detached and abusive and never paid any attention to her. She would _attempt_ suicide to get his attention. The final attempt was not really intended to kill her, but the ER doc screwed up and she died at home after he let her leave. DD found her.

DD was told by relatives that I was the _other woman._ I wasn't but when we started going out, they all took it for granted that it was true. She hates me because she has been told that her dad and I drove her mother to suicide. DH thinks she has no clue. I think he's an idiot because everyone has talked in front of her and she has to know.

The reason they all think I had an affair with him is that she always accused him of having an affair, and one day when she came to the office at work, she saw me and decided that I was the one. Just my luck I was at work when she showed up, it could have been anybody.

I lost it last night after dh told me I was doing a lousy job as a mother, and I told him he drove her to kill herself and I didn't speak to him again that night. I have never said anything that ugly to anyone, but I was livid and I really believe it's true. He thinks he is the only one who is allowed to get angry and dd and I are supposed to be some sweet fluffy feminine ideal that does not exist in this universe.
He is kind of responsible because she was screaming for attention, and now dd is screaming for attention, and he's shoving her off on me when she doesn't want me. She wants him and he just doesn't get it.


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## Metasequoia

Ugh, I'm sorry bigeyes.









I've had a rough road with ex-dp as well. In the summer of '05 he told me that he had another child..who was 3.5 years old! with his ex-wife!







: 1 week later, I found out I was pregnant with Dc #3. Suffice it to say, that pregnancy was a little stressful, add a subchorionic hemmorhage & bedrest to that & well, it was all down hill from there. After Ds was born, I left him, he threatened to file for custody & vax my unvaxed new baby. I had to file for CS & well, it all just sucked.

I can't really say what the "fianl straw" was, I know it's really just something that's built up over time, but I figure after giving birth & then having such stresses is what finally caused my adrenals to wave the white flag.


----------



## bigeyes

Yup, any stress makes the whole adrenal thing go apeshit. But of course, it's my fault I'm sick too, and I'm not sick enough to be considered much of anything but a malingerer in his eyes because he has diabetes and crohn's disease and since he can keep working crazy schedules and go without sleep, it's a character flaw that I _can't._


----------



## Kimmiepie

Quote:

But of course, it's my fault I'm sick too, and I'm not sick enough to be considered much of anything but a malingerer in his eyes
I could have written that myself....

PMing you back


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## Pookietooth

Big







to you both, Kimmiepie and bigeyes. Abuse is the worst. I would say that spiritual guidance or listening to your intutition is the best way to deal with it, but that's actually not been my experience, yet. I do know others for whom that has worked.


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## Kimmiepie

Thanks pookietooth. I'm actually not dealing with abuse anymore (it was my ex). I was just saying that my current dh doesn't really think I'm sick.

Bigeyes- Sorry I didn't get around to pming you last night. Things got crazy around here. I will as soon as I have a chance.


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## bigeyes

NP. I got a little busy myself.


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## BeingMe

Anyone know anything about Isocort?? My ND just switched me to it because I haven't been getting any better. I am BF and a little worried about the echinacea but www.kellymom.com says it's ok in little amounts.

She also has me doing affirmations and some other things to help me with my mental stress. And I got a shot of b12 which helped some but today I am feeling really low, in the back of my mind I think it could be from the sugar I had yesterday, if it's possible that could've done it.


----------



## bigeyes

my naturalthyroidhormonesadrenals group on yahoo is walking me through my hydrocortisone dosages, so you might post your question there. I'm still tweaking and trying to get to where I feel right.


----------



## Pookietooth

What about DSF-formlula by Nutri-West? Anyone heard anything about it?


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## truelife

Hello Everyone!

I am sure I have adrenal fatigue - nearly every symtpom on the list I have. Has anyone treated their AF with "Raw Adrenal"?

http://www.evitamins.com/product.asp?pid=2720

Are there some good websites I can go to to read about diet, supplements, etc? I really need some help....

TIA!


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan* 
Anyone know anything about Isocort?? My ND just switched me to it because I haven't been getting any better. I am BF and a little worried about the echinacea but www.kellymom.com says it's ok in little amounts.

She also has me doing affirmations and some other things to help me with my mental stress. And I got a shot of b12 which helped some but today I am feeling really low, in the back of my mind I think it could be from the sugar I had yesterday, if it's possible that could've done it.


From reading other people's experiences I've noticed that Isocort is not usually strong enough. Most people need between 20-30mg of hydrocortisone to feel better. Isocort has something like 10-15mg.

You can tell if it's working by taking your temp 3x a day. The first time should be 3 hours after you wake up. (Sit quietly and don't eat or drink anything for 20 minutes beforehand.) Take your next temp 3 hours after that. Then the last 3 hours after that. Average these 3 temps and do it for about 5-7 days. Your averaged temp should be stable throughout the day within .2 degrees. If you find that it is fluctuating all over the place then you need more HC.

Personally, I'd just go with the straight HC only because it doesn't have anything else added to it like the Echinacea.


----------



## Brookesmom

HI everyone,

Quick post-- I got my test results back last Friday and have hypothyroid symptoms (low free T3) and adrenal fatigue at morning and bedtime... will post results later.

I noticed that stop the thyroid madness message board closed down so I can't post my lab results there.







I just joined the new thyroid help board that is somewhat replacing it although they don't have an adrenal board anymore.

I will have to check into that yahoo group just mentioned.

Pookietooth:

I have DSF Formula that my chiro gave me over a year ago- She just did muscle testing I guess it's called and declared that my adrenals were shot and told me to take 1 twice a day- She said it was OK while BF'ing. I took it sporadically and didn't notice a huge improvement.

My holistic MD that I just saw said she didn't like the other glandulars that were in it besides adrenal gland, and recommended "Andren-all". It seemed safer while BF'ing though. She didn't say if the other glandulars would "hurt" per se, so you might want to ask your chiro or ND why those other glandulars are included. I didn't know enough at the time to ask. It also might not have enough adrenal extract to make a difference for you, I'm not sure. I couldn't find a lot of info out about it working for adrenal fatigue out there, though it has a good amount of vit. C and pantothetic acid etc. to support the adrenals.

Adren-all has vitamins and minerals as well as licorice root and rhodiola and ginseng as well as andrenal bovine extract. I got home and read "don't take if pregnant or nursing" and called her office and they said not to take it if I'm nursing. So, I'm down to just the high potency multivitamin complex/mineral/fish oil supplements she gave me.

I was actually writing to ask about Isocort too. I wondered if that was OK while nursing. Maybe I should call the office to ask about HC (cortisone). She wanted to strengthen my adrenals for 3 months and retest my labs then go to thyroid medicine after that if needed. I'm supposed to be working on more sleep, less stress and less simple carbs and yoga in the meantime. I feel like I need to do more in terms of cortisol levels though...

BBL... --Kelly


----------



## Rachel J.

I went for accupressure/energy "treatment"? today for my adrenals and whatever else is going on. My mom has been going to this massage therapist for a little while now and her hot flashes are almost gone so we thought I'd give it a try. Anyway, two hours alone listening to nature sounds, talking about my problems and having someone pay attention to me was heavenly. She said that my energy was very congested and was able to release a few areas. I could feel discomfort/tension building in my shins that went away as she finished that area. She said that she felt deep stress, something more than just the recent stuff I've been through, that it was old, which is so on target with what I've been coming to realize about my life. She also said that parts of me felt really heavy, for lack of a better description. And as she finished up she told me that she "saw" a layer of grayish stuff, kind of like dirt except that's good stuff, so we called it gunk







and she thought she'd try to clear it. As she did bright colors started to come through. She didn't know if it meant anything to me or if I felt any differently, that it could have just been her hallucination but she was dead on about some shame-based stress I've been carrying around. I'm still trying to process the experience. It was pretty uneventful and amazing at the same time. Oh, she forgot to "ground" me after she finished and as I got up and was getting dressed I felt like my body was going to float away from my feet







She gave me some Emergenc-C to drink and while I drank it she grounded me at some pressure points in my feet. We'll see if I feel any differently tomorrow or if it's the same old, same old. I'm trying to think positively because I tend to negative thinking at times and that's counterproductive to the body trying to heal itself.


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## Metasequoia

Wow Rachel J., that's some COOL stuff!

Had my appointment this afternoon, my bp is better! It was 105-115-110 (or maybe it was 105-110-115, now I can't remember...oh well, at least it went up when I stood up.









It's been 6 months since I started treatment, my doc usually retests the adrenal function at this point but we're going to wait a while longer, maybe another 6 months since my symptoms haven't changed much. I have been a bit better mentally though, my anxiety is much better than it was 6 months or a year ago - so that's good, maybe my adrenals are healing...

As far as the muscle pain, he mentioned a metabolic test & a test for mitochondrial function. We also discussed allergy testing (food) to see if there's something there that would explain my itchy upper arms/shoulders. Since Benadryl helps, we're thinking it's a histamine reaction to something but are having trouble figuring out what. I'm thinking either nightshade or gluten, but I have zero gut issues so I hesitate to say gluten, but ya never know. That reaction I had from the skin contact with the tomato plants makes me really suspicious.

I'm also taking more thymus extract, on top of the amount that's already in my adrenal support formula, it's suppose dto boost the immune system.
My immune system is a mystery too - I *never* get sick, ever. The kids had a stomach bug last winter that didn't even give me gas & they're all just getting over a cold & I haven't sneezed once. This could be a sign that my immune system rocks or a sign that it's hyperactive or that there's an autoimmune thing going on, in which case, anything that I'm exposed to just sits in my body causing no symptoms. Not sure where to go with that one...


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## Rachel J.

Metasequioa, I'm glad to hear you're showing some signs of improvement. It gives me some hope







I certainly wasn't any better today than I have been but I'm just trusting that something good happened yesterday and if I'd start going to bed at a reasonable time I'd probably feel a lot better energy wise. For the past week or so I've been up until midnight or later, not good when I have a little one who comes and jumps on the bed by 7:30 (if I'm lucky). I've been wondering about food/gluten sensitivites myself but I'm just not disciplined enough right now, nor do I really have the energy or motivation to try cutting out salyciates (sp?), I get the nasty reaction to tomato plants, too. And I was off dairy for several months for ds so I'm pretty sure that's not a problem, although amines in my kefir and yogurt could be. I've tried avoiding gluten off and on, first for ds and then for myself, but I really haven't been consistent. I do know that large quantities give me digestive problems (as would anyone hanging around me







). The eczema on my hand has become almost unbearable so I feel like I need to try something, I just really don't know where to start, and I'm a little afraid of what I might find.

Metasequoia, I used to be like you, didn't get sick at all while the rest of my family was ill. This last winter, though, I caught it all. Oh, with the itchy skin, if you think it's a histamine issue you might try upping your vitamin C. That really helps me with allergy reactions.

My physician gave me a prescription for Cortef, a hydrocortisone, but doesn't want me to fill it until I'm done bfing. Ds is only about 10 months, adjusted for his prematurity (I'll be so glad when I'm done adding that to his age all the time) so I could be looking at a few more years







Is anyone bfing and taking hydrocortisone? I'm not even sure I want to take it but I really need some sort of jump start. My little herbal pill probably isn't touching my issues.


----------



## Metasequoia

I clicked on one of the links below the fibro thread here on H&H & am just finishing up watching this video - it's about being "adrenal toxic" & the way this guy (Dr. Bob Andrews) explains what is really adrenal fatigue is so right on. He says that his patients have high adrenaline that alternates with very low adrenaline & the coexisting negative self-thought process. He says we're hypervigilant & that his patients describe the feeling as being trapped in their minds. It's almost an hour long, but I was listening as I sat here & relaxed - he says that he prescribes two drugs (that I wouldn't take!) one reduces the adrenaline & the other stops the vicious mind racing cycle (the "what ifs.") The drug that reduces the adrenaline also lowers the blood pressure & he said that most people who are "adrenal toxic" also have high blood pressure (which is false) so I'd hesitate to take any of the meds he recommends. I'd like to find something that treats these two issues naturaly though.

Anywho, it's comforting to listen to this guy say everything about what's going on in my mind. He also mentions muscle pain, which is music to my ears as that one really freaks me out.

To watch, click the link next to the white haired guy named Bob Andrews on this page. His lecture is titled: "The sympathetic nervous system, and the effects of adrenaline on the mind and body".


----------



## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Anywho, it's comforting to listen to this guy say everything about what's going on in my mind. He also mentions muscle pain, which is music to my ears as that one really freaks me out.

I know your muscle pain is more severe than the achey legs and hips that I get, but was just wondering if you're taking much magnesium. I have to take 800-1000mg of mag citrate daily to control the achiness and irregular heartbeat. If I slack off then I pay for it for a while. I guess I'm just so mag deficient that I'm having trouble building up a reserve. Well, I feel the achiness coming on now so off to pop some mag and get to bed at a reasonable time (even though I feel as if my cortisol level is probably shooting out the roof







: ).


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
though.

Anywho, it's comforting to listen to this guy say everything about what's going on in my mind. He also mentions muscle pain, which is music to my ears as that one really freaks me out.

To watch, click the link next to the white haired guy named Bob Andrews on this page. His lecture is titled: "The sympathetic nervous system, and the effects of adrenaline on the mind and body".

I cannot get the video to play. Could you quote the drugs he mentioned? I do have the occasional raises in blood pressure and have had the adrenaline thing for most of my life. I'm curious about what he had to say, but I just can't get the page to load once I click on the link to the actual video.









nevermind, I got it to play on _evil explorer._


----------



## Metasequoia

Thanks Rachel J.







I want to respond to your questions but my brain is shot, I'll be sharper tomorrow.

You're right about the magnesium - and the vitamin c. Even my ND said that I should continue to take them. I get really good about taking them each night & then I slack off for a while. The vit c was helping with the itchiness I think.

I had a massage on Monday & then took a (rather short) epsom salt bath.

Ds is sleeping in my arms, it hurts my neck, I better go to bed - and you too!









Thanks mama, we'll talk tomorrow...after I make pickles....which might take all day...


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 

My physician gave me a prescription for Cortef, a hydrocortisone, but doesn't want me to fill it until I'm done bfing. Ds is only about 10 months, adjusted for his prematurity (I'll be so glad when I'm done adding that to his age all the time) so I could be looking at a few more years







Is anyone bfing and taking hydrocortisone? I'm not even sure I want to take it but I really need some sort of jump start. My little herbal pill probably isn't touching my issues.


I'm pregnant and taking hydrocortisone. I will continue to take it and breastfeed as well. I normally take 20mg but since more is need during pregnancy I'm currently taking 35mg. I'll go back down to 20mg once the babe is born.

The HC is bioidentical to the cortisol that our bodies should be producing anyway. Therefore it should have no negative effects whle breastfeeding.....


----------



## BeingMe

Here's my check in...
Saw my doctor yesterday and she put me on a $64 a bottle product called "Ultimate Viral Defense Humacel" It's for the epstein barr levels of 387. It's got humic acid and fulvic acid in it(whatever this is). She basically described it to me as it surrounds the virus cell and doesn't allow it to lock into my receptor cells and membranes. Hope it works, it sure is expensive.
I also asked her about the potassium in the iodine and referrenced some articles(that I accidentally left at home) that said to avoid potassium. Her answer was basically that me taking the iodine was more important than worrying about the potassium. Not really the answer I wanted to hear. I also brought up sea salt once but nothing. However, once she saw that I was dehydrated(by looking at the skin on my bottom when she gave me a b12 shot)and I told her that I drink enough water, she told me to add sea salt to my water. Maybe it's the adrenal fatigue, or my constant doubting but I am worried she may be lacking in her knowledge of adrenal fatigue. The fact that she doesn't bring up many of the things that I read about online bothers me. Like food. She told me to avoid wheat and dairy, but allows sprouted wheat bread. And when I asked her about sprouting/soaking things she kinda just brushed it off. And when I asaked her about NAET she said she doesn't believe it works. And the fact that she wouldn't do the 4 tube test when I asked her, she said that she already knows my cortiasol is low(by doing the 2 tube test). I can't remember the reason why for the 4 tube, but I know it's important. I did ask her to give me a stage and she said I'm in stage 3 of adrenal fatigue. She doesn't do any other type of testing but blood and only checked my blood pressure on the first visit. Should I be worried or should I let it go??
Thanks mama's for all your help. Dunno what I'd do without you to help ease my mind.


----------



## Pookietooth

Rachel J, I hate to say it, but eczema is often caused by a gluten and sometimes also a diary sensitivity. Have you done at least energy testing with gluten? I know there are other allergic reactions that can cause eczema though, it's just gluten and then dairy are the top two. Eggs are the next I think.

Metasequoia, I read in one book that never getting colds is a sign of an overactive immune system. I think it was "The Mood Cure" but I can't be sure, I've read so many. People with a lot of allergies often have this. It's the high histamine level. I think cutting histamines out of the diet is supposed to help, but I'm not 100% on that.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Metasequoia, I read in one book that never getting colds is a sign of an overactive immune system. I think it was "The Mood Cure" but I can't be sure, I've read so many. People with a lot of allergies often have this. It's the high histamine level. I think cutting histamines out of the diet is supposed to help, but I'm not 100% on that.

What kinds of foods have histamines? How do you find out if you have high histamine levels?


----------



## Brookesmom

Rachel, Your massage/energy work sounds so cool! I need to find something like that. Are you going to repeat it as needed?

I think I need Cortef too, but I'm kinda scared since I'm nursing DS whose 1 1/2. Of course, since it is bio-identical to what the body produces, I'm thinking it would be safer and stronger compared to the herbal/glandular stuff that my Dr. wanted me to take but to me to hold off on since I was nursing. I don't have my next follow up for two months so for now just am taking the strong multi vitamin/minerals. I'm supposed to be working on the stress levels. ha! Kindergarten just started and DD is exhausted and high needs this week.

Shannyshan, I don't know any of the answers to your questions... Hopefully someone else can chime in. Maybe you can stick with this Dr until you find someone better. It seems like adrenal experts are few and far between.


----------



## Pookietooth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
What kinds of foods have histamines? How do you find out if you have high histamine levels?

Here's a link about dietary histamines:
http://www.urticaria.thunderworksinc...whistamine.htm


----------



## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Thanks Rachel J.







I want to respond to your questions but my brain is shot, I'll be sharper tomorrow.

You're right about the magnesium - and the vitamin c. Even my ND said that I should continue to take them. I get really good about taking them each night & then I slack off for a while. The vit c was helping with the itchiness I think.

I had a massage on Monday & then took a (rather short) epsom salt bath.

Ds is sleeping in my arms, it hurts my neck, I better go to bed - and you too!









Thanks mama, we'll talk tomorrow...after I make pickles....which might take all day...

I hear ya about the pickles







I've had a jar, raspberry leaves, and cucumbers sitting out all day but can't decide how to prepare them (that's the problem with first time ferment recipes) so the cukes have gone back into the fridge for the evening.


----------



## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brookesmom* 
Rachel, Your massage/energy work sounds so cool! I need to find something like that. Are you going to repeat it as needed?

I think I need Cortef too, but I'm kinda scared since I'm nursing DS whose 1 1/2. Of course, since it is bio-identical to what the body produces, I'm thinking it would be safer and stronger compared to the herbal/glandular stuff that my Dr. wanted me to take but to me to hold off on since I was nursing. I don't have my next follow up for two months so for now just am taking the strong multi vitamin/minerals. I'm supposed to be working on the stress levels. ha! Kindergarten just started and DD is exhausted and high needs this week.

Shannyshan, I don't know any of the answers to your questions... Hopefully someone else can chime in. Maybe you can stick with this Dr until you find someone better. It seems like adrenal experts are few and far between.

I probably should go back for more but at $60 a session (which is very reasonable for 1.5+ hours) it just adds up, especially on top of all the supplements and other doc visits. I don't think one session did much noticable help. I'm still the same crappy, tired, cranky mamma I was before, who is staying up waaay too late because a) dh is out with friends and so I play on the internet all night and b) I think my cortisol spikes in the evening cause I get so amped up (and eat a lot of chocolate, bad, bad, bad!). I think I'm going to talk to dh tomorrow about going to a ND who's a few hours away. I'm just so fed up with functioning so below par. I'm not the mamma and wife (much less friend, I hardly have extra energy for friends) that I know I can be.

Pookietooth- I'm not real happy to hear about the gluten/dairy/egg connection to eczema. I've had it for a long time but it got really bad while I was pregnant, got better when I got steroid shots for ds's lungs because he was going to be born early, then got worse as my health has gone into the toilet. I was dairy-free for several months, not so gluten free for a while, and am more or less egg free. I had a celiac test with all my blood work but it came back neg. How does one go about doing energy testing for gluten? I don't know what the deal is but it's bad enough that I've used steroid cream the past few nights because the wet sock glove that I'd made just isn't cutting it anymore. I can't wear my wedding rings on either hand because of it and it looks (and feels) awful; a lady at my son's ped's office asked if I'd been burned









Okay, I'm going to bed now. I can't believe it's freakin' 1am already!


----------



## Brookesmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
I'm still the same crappy, tired, cranky mamma I was before, ... I'm just so fed up with functioning so below par. I'm not the mamma and wife (much less friend, I hardly have extra energy for friends) that I know I can be.

I hear you, boy do I hear you!









-Kelly


----------



## Taedareth

I asked Dr. Ron Schmid (who wrote _The Untold Story of Milk_) what his nutritional recommendations would be for a person dealing with rather extreme adrenal fatigue. Here's what he said:

_I suggest you use both the Organ Delight and Adrenal capsules, 3 a day of the latter and up to 6 to 12 of the Organ Delight. Also lots of high vitamin Cod Liver Oil, a couple of tablespoons a day. And very important - eat a LOT of quality meat!

Ron Schmid, ND
Dr. Ron's Ultra-Pure
www.DrRons.com_


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Taedareth* 
I asked Dr. Ron Schmid (who wrote _The Untold Story of Milk_) what his nutritional recommendations would be for a person dealing with rather extreme adrenal fatigue. Here's what he said:

_I suggest you use both the Organ Delight and Adrenal capsules, 3 a day of the latter and up to 6 to 12 of the Organ Delight. Also lots of high vitamin Cod Liver Oil, a couple of tablespoons a day. And very important - eat a LOT of quality meat!

Ron Schmid, ND
Dr. Ron's Ultra-Pure
www.DrRons.com_

Cool, I do all of that but I could up my CLO quite a bit - I take 1 tsp/day. His stuff is SOOO expensive, I'm going to look at how it compares to my stuff. I do know that the Mil Adregen that my ND prescribed for me comes from grass fed cows, from New Zealand I believe.

He's a nice guy, I talked with him on the phone last summer about Lyme.


----------



## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Taedareth* 
I asked Dr. Ron Schmid (who wrote _The Untold Story of Milk_) what his nutritional recommendations would be for a person dealing with rather extreme adrenal fatigue. Here's what he said:

_I suggest you use both the Organ Delight and Adrenal capsules, 3 a day of the latter and up to 6 to 12 of the Organ Delight. Also lots of high vitamin Cod Liver Oil, a couple of tablespoons a day. And very important - eat a LOT of quality meat!

Ron Schmid, ND
Dr. Ron's Ultra-Pure
www.DrRons.com_

Thank you for sharing that!! That sounds very right to me, and is very close to what I'm doing for myself right now (along with some other things). I will increase the Adrenal capsules I'm taking, though. I've never bothered to get officially diagnosed (lately, that is. I was told several times over the years that my adrenals were a problem for me), but it sounds pretty likely that adrenal fatigue is an issue for me. It makes such sense.

You know, I've been taking 2 Adrenal capsules/day for about 3 wks, I think, and I'm noticing a small difference. When I drive I'm not feeling so on edge about the other drivers. It used to be that when someone would cut me off I would have the expected adrenaline rush, but it would just continue, so that by the time I got to my destination my stomach would be totally tied in knots. Now I get the adrenaline rush, but then it's done, and I actually calm down after. This is huge for me!


----------



## bigeyes

well, I am upping my Hydrocortisone dose and doing my best to avoid annoying people who affect my adrenaline.

Yeah, I know, good luck, huh?


----------



## Taedareth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Cool, I do all of that but I could up my CLO quite a bit - I take 1 tsp/day. His stuff is SOOO expensive, I'm going to look at how it compares to my stuff. I do know that the Mil Adregen that my ND prescribed for me comes from grass fed cows, from New Zealand I believe.

What brand do you take? Does it have to be prescribed by a doctor? Dr. Ron's stuff is expensive, especially if both DH and I are taking it (me for prenatal, him for all his issues). Is there another brand that has something similar to the "organ delight" and his multivitamin and adrenal capsules?


----------



## provocativa

I found Solaray glandulars, and bought some for my dad, I haven't got any for myself yet. There's no point in me even thinking about affording Dr. Ron's anything. http://vitanetonline.com/glandular.cfm They are supposedly raw. Other stuff I've bought by them has worked much better than other brands, so I'm willing to give it a try.


----------



## ChristieB

Another brand of grandulars is Allergy Research Group. They are much cheaper than Dr. Ron's, and so far as I know of similar quality. Here's what they say about them:

Quote:

This organic glandular material is processed by lyophilization of glands derived from government-inspected, range-fed animals, raised in New Zealand without hormones or antibiotics. The material is frozen, then subjected to a high vacuum that vaporizes moisture directly from the solid state, thereby maintaining its biological activity.
They don't have anything comparable to the Organ Delight, though. The closest thing is this, for thyroid support, or this. They do have a lot of individual glandulars, but not all of what Dr. Ron sells. This is what they have.

They only sell to health care practitioners or their authorized patients (dh is a physical therapist, and he qualifies, so you don't have to be a dr.). But I've seen it sold online, just do a google search. They also have a different label for selling to the general public. That is Nutricology. So, you might be able to find that at stores or online.

Anyway, this is the brand that I'm taking. The adrenal glandular has already helped.

I don't know if they have a multi or how it might compare to Dr. Ron's, but you could look.


----------



## transformed

:


----------



## neveryoumindthere

Hi all. I was just led to this thread today...Got my thyroid test back yesterday and it seems things are normal. I'm looking into Adrenal fatigue after the MD mentioned she thinks my symptoms are adrenal and/or other female hormones (I didnt 'get' what she was talking about)

Anyway, this MD specializes in female hormones and advocates bio-identical hormones (not sure what that means--as natural as possible?) ..do you think this would be a good person to use? She suggested a saliva test that tests cortisol, adrenals, estrogen, progesterone and a bunch of others I didnt' catch..the cost is $220--or should I go with a naturopath?

I've been dealing with health issues for the past few years...main symptoms being fatigue (extreme, many days can barely function. I push myself to the max just to get through our uneventful days), brain fog/unable to concentrate, hair loss, depression, and lately I look at least 4 or 5 months pregnant despite weighing 125 and being thin all over except the belly. What causes this???? I can't stand how many ppl are asking if i'm pregnant because of my gut.

Also, on a previous test, it showed my estradiol levels were low. What does this mean? I couldn't really find any info.

I have yet to read through this thread. It's hard to concentrate/wrap my brain around all this stuff so I gotta read it slowly.

thanks in advance


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
Hi all. I was just led to this thread today...Got my thyroid test back yesterday and it seems things are normal. I'm looking into Adrenal fatigue after the MD mentioned she thinks my symptoms are adrenal and/or other female hormones (I didnt 'get' what she was talking about)

Anyway, this MD specializes in female hormones and advocates bio-identical hormones (not sure what that means--as natural as possible?) ..do you think this would be a good person to use? She suggested a saliva test that tests cortisol, adrenals, estrogen, progesterone and a bunch of others I didnt' catch..the cost is $220--or should I go with a naturopath?

I've been dealing with health issues for the past few years...main symptoms being fatigue (extreme, many days can barely function. I push myself to the max just to get through our uneventful days), brain fog/unable to concentrate, hair loss, depression, and lately I look at least 4 or 5 months pregnant despite weighing 125 and being thin all over except the belly. What causes this???? I can't stand how many ppl are asking if i'm pregnant because of my gut.

Also, on a previous test, it showed my estradiol levels were low. What does this mean? I couldn't really find any info.

I have yet to read through this thread. It's hard to concentrate/wrap my brain around all this stuff so I gotta read it slowly.

thanks in advance

She sounds like a dream. Those things are the very ones they should be testing, and the adrenal stuff is what keeps you screwed up even if you treat your thyroid symptoms, which is why they need to address that first.

When my cortisol got out of whack I literally grew a belly overnight. I had so many friends asking me why I had not told them I was pregnant!


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## neveryoumindthere

how's everything now with you? Did the belly go down right away?
How do we replace cortisol?
I'm intrigued..like I said can't really wrap my brain around this as I'm just now looking into it and I'm not even familiar with all the terms and concepts.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
how's everything now with you? Did the belly go down right away?
How do we replace cortisol?
I'm intrigued..like I said can't really wrap my brain around this as I'm just now looking into it and I'm not even familiar with all the terms and concepts.

Mine is going away since I've added hydrocortisone. I'm still not up to the right amount but it's bad to just take a huge dose right off the bat so I'm working up. I _just_ found out that cigarette smoking increases cortisol, which is one of the reasons I felt fine when I smoked and thought my thyroid was being properly dosed based on symptoms. Then I quit smoking, went to a lousy doctor, and the proverbial s**t hit the fan.

I literally went to bed one night and could not zip any of my pants in the morning. When I saw the doctor and had gained something like 25 pounds, she weighed me twice, double checked my chart, and then shrugged her shoulders and told me I was _just gaining back my weight. *Yeah.* After how many years of weighing roughly the same, the extra was somehow *mine?

*_ Had I known about the _cigarette/cortisol connection, and hydrocortisone,_ I would have found a better doctor right then and handled the whole thing differently. Instead, I've learned it all the hard way and I'm reclaiming my health a little bit at a time.







:

So, to recap, smoking is bad, but if you quit, and you feel like you have any symptoms that might be hormonal, get to a doctor who specializes in that area (and who doesn't ignore women's concerns) ASAP. It's insane that a doctor would look me in the face and expect me to believe it was normal to gain 25 lbs in the space of a week with no explanation.







:

I always wondered why I saw fat smokers, yk? Now I understand that it was because they didn't have a condition that _required_ cortisol. It leaves me wondering if smoking can actually contribute to cortisol based weight _gain_ too?


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## BellinghamCrunchie

*Taking supplements and breastfeeding question*

DD is 2.75. She's never been a great sleeper but for the last 3 months she's waking 5-7 times a night and sometimes having trouble getting back to sleep. (Last night we were up from 4am to 6:30am for example).

I thought it was her 2nd year molars (she still has 3 to go) but now I'm wondering if it could be that I've started taking Nature Throid 1mg, and an adrenal supplement similar to Mil Adregen (but without the thyroid stuff in it). Her sleep got bad about 3 mths ago and I started taking the supplements about 2.5 mths ago, but now I'm wondering if her teeth had been hurting but now its the supplements.

Anyone notice any changes in their child while taking similar supplements and breastfeeding?


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## Pookietooth

I haven't really noticed any difference with ds when I take supplements. Actually, when I don't take them, his sleep is worse, so maybe it does make a difference?


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## Metasequoia

Sorry to be a no-show guys! I've been taking a break from being online, kinda nice.

Interesting about the cortisol-belly connection - I am 5'9, 118 lbs & I HAVE A BELLY! In fact, whenever I gained any amount of weight, it ONLY went to my belly. I too have pants that don't zip/button anymore. Yes, I'm still bfing every 2-3 hours around the clock, but Ds is 19 months now & I don't think it's because of that. I'd LOVE to get rid of the belly. It's flat when I wake in the morning, but as soon as I eat breakfast, it fluffs out, by afternoon, *I* think that I look 4 months pg.

I have an appointment next week to see my ND & I also have an appt to begin allergy testing. I'm probably going to do the blood test since I hear that skin testing is useless & I'll see how much stool testing is as I hear it's the best for dxing/ruling out Celiac or a gluten sensitivity.

I've been _really_ bad about taking my supplements ever since I went to the beach for 12 days in mid Sept. I haven't taken pregnenolone since I left & have been a real slacker about the Mil Adregen, licorice, magnesium, vitamin c & CLO. Must get my butt back in gear.
I tell you what though, I felt SO MUCH BETTER while I was on vacation! I didn't itch AT ALL the whole time I was there & didn't for a couple of weeks after returning. As of late last week, I'm itchy again.







:
I really, really wonder if the stress (adrenaline) is causing the itchiness. Back when this all first started, I had a burning skin sensation all over my body, like a really bad sunburn, everywhere. The only place I saw this mentioned was on an anxiety site & on a menopause site - soooo, it could be hormones OR, it could be anxiety (stress/adrenaline) which I know is common in menopause BUT, is it common because of the hormonal fluctuations & underlying fatigued adrenals??? Chicken or the egg?
Anywho, if the skin burning can be caused by stress/anxiety, couldn't itchiness as well?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
*Taking supplements and breastfeeding question*

DD is 2.75. She's never been a great sleeper but for the last 3 months she's waking 5-7 times a night and sometimes having trouble getting back to sleep. (Last night we were up from 4am to 6:30am for example).

I thought it was her 2nd year molars (she still has 3 to go) but now I'm wondering if it could be that I've started taking Nature Throid 1mg, and an adrenal supplement similar to Mil Adregen (but without the thyroid stuff in it). Her sleep got bad about 3 mths ago and I started taking the supplements about 2.5 mths ago, but now I'm wondering if her teeth had been hurting but now its the supplements.

Anyone notice any changes in their child while taking similar supplements and breastfeeding?

I never had a problem on Mil Adregen, but I did on Adreno-Plus - turns out it was the high amounts of B-vits (or maybe just that I was taking a separate super B-complex as well - my old doctor also had me taking 3 pills/day when I should have started out with 1/4 of a pill a day. *I* had trouble sleeping! I *think* that ginseng could also keep you ( potentially the babe) up at night, but I'm not sure 'bout that.


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## bigeyes

Itching is one of the symptoms that women report every now and then in both my thyroid and my adrenals group, but I don't remember what cause, if any, was cited. Many have said their allergic symptoms ease or disappear as they get better. The whole thing is so bizarre, and it really does affect your entire body.


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## transformed

Hi Bigeyes! (Thyroid group)

I havent taken alot of time to read this thread but just wanted to say, I dont know if I have any adrenal or thyroid issues yet, but I am pretty convinced....

and for YEARS, my skin itches, especially my back-like when there is no clothing on it. (Or in a swimsuit or something)

I have always wondered "why" about everything,, but not very many people have ever been willing to entertain my barriage of questions.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Hi Bigeyes! (Thyroid group)

I havent taken alot of time to read this thread but just wanted to say, I dont know if I have any adrenal or thyroid issues yet, but I am pretty convinced....

and for YEARS, my skin itches, especially my back-like when there is no clothing on it. (Or in a swimsuit or something)

I have always wondered "why" about everything,, but not very many people have ever been willing to entertain my barriage of questions.









That's because people who haven't experienced it will write you off as crazy, a hypochondriac, or a pain in the ass. BTDT. Until you have your life destroyed by an illness, you really can't understand.

I went from being superwoman to a lifeless lump almost overnight. It's frustrating and demoralizing, and because this particular illness usually causes weight gain, you generally won't get much sympathy because our society hates fat. It's safer to categorize fat people as lazy or crazy because then you can tell yourself you'll never become one of them.

At the moment, it's all I can do to suppress my rage at the constant stream of misinformation that is being shoved down women's throats when they start getting sick. It requires constant vigilance to keep from ingesting the things that will make you worse, and then you have to use up your limited energy searching for a doctor who won't dismiss your concerns or treat you with cookie cutter medicine.

I guess I should be glad I'm so stubborn, because many people would just give up. As long as you keep asking questions and doing your research, you have a fighting chance. Don't let anyone tell you that you ask too many questions, because that usually means they are ashamed to admit they don't know the answer.


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## jamie79

Metasequoia...Could the itchiness be due to Vit D deficiency? I am just grasping at straws here. You were at the beach and felt better and now you don't, since you haveleft the *sunny* beach...maybe. This whole adrenals/thyroid thing is so confusing and som many things interconnect, that it is hard to know where to connect the dots.

I am currently waiting for the results of my saliva test...


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## neveryoumindthere

I admit I *still* haven't read through this thread --too tired







: but I wondered if anyone one here has recovered or at least feels a zillion times better like no fatigue, hair grew back and an existing libido??







:

Someone please say yes.


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## bigeyes

At one point I did, but it was because I was smoking and smoking increases your cortisol. I now take hydrocortisone to do the same thing, but until I get my dosage right I won't feel as good.

It sucks, but at least now I know why I felt better when I smoked. I just have to heal my adrenals with the hydrocortisone to get back to the same point without the nicotine. If I had only known this, I could have avoided the past 2 years of feeling lousy by upping my cortisol.


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## ChristieB

Just another thought on the big belly. I've heard others say that when they eat gluten it bloats them up to the point that they look pregnant. And when they go gluten-free, the belly goes away. Sometimes other allergens contribute, too (or instead), but gluten seems to be the main offender there. This was my first thought when I read you mamas talking about it. Especially since someone mentioned how it would be gone in the morning and by afternoon there it was. Sounds to me like it could be something that's being eaten. Then again, food is such a BIG issue in this family, that's usually the first thing I think of. It's great if cortisol fixes it, but if it doesn't, or you can't easily get cortisol, you might want to try eating gluten-free for awhile.


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## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
I admit I *still* haven't read through this thread --too tired







: but I wondered if anyone one here has recovered or at least feels a zillion times better like no fatigue, hair grew back and an existing libido??







:

Someone please say yes.

Well, I don't know how much help my answer will be, but I'll give it anyway.







I have made some definite improvement at times, and then it gets worse again (usually some major stressor, and unfortunately I've had plenty). But never as bad as it used to be. It's really hard to separate out what is MS and what is other things. I do know, though, that there's more than just MS going on, because I can make a real difference with some things that I do (things that should help adrenals, but not MS, so far as anyone knows anyway).

One thing I'm convinced of, though, is that there is no quick fix for this. It took a long time to get to this point, and it will take a long time and a lot of work to fix it (and in my case, a lot of liver







).


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristieB* 
Just another thought on the big belly. I've heard others say that when they eat gluten it bloats them up to the point that they look pregnant. And when they go gluten-free, the belly goes away. Sometimes other allergens contribute, too (or instead), but gluten seems to be the main offender there. This was my first thought when I read you mamas talking about it. Especially since someone mentioned how it would be gone in the morning and by afternoon there it was. Sounds to me like it could be something that's being eaten. Then again, food is such a BIG issue in this family, that's usually the first thing I think of. It's great if cortisol fixes it, but if it doesn't, or you can't easily get cortisol, you might want to try eating gluten-free for awhile.

I believe that is good advice, however, it is a lot more likely that your hormones will go out of whack than it is that you will suddenly become unable to digest gluten at 30 or 40 something, isn't it?

Strangely enough, many in my thyroid group miraculously had their digestive issues clear up once they got their adrenals and thyroid meds straightened out. As amazed as I am by advancements in medicine, I am still shaking my head at the things they _don't_ seem to understand, ykwim?


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## BellinghamCrunchie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
I admit I *still* haven't read through this thread --too tired







: but I wondered if anyone one here has recovered or at least feels a zillion times better like no fatigue, hair grew back and an existing libido??







:

Someone please say yes.

I feel a zillion times better! I'm on a low dose of nature throid, adrenal supplements, and a quality multivitamin. I feel so much better I redid the kitchen cabinets, am re-doing DD's bedroom, and walk 1-2 miles every evening and enjoy it (as opposed to feeling like I'm wading through a huge tub of jello like I used to feel). There are times when I'm tired and not as energetic as I think I *could* be, but overall I am able to enjoy doing things again. I've been feeling better for about 3 months now. I think I would feel even better if DD would sleep though the night







but even so I'm better able to deal with that by not feeling so wiped out all the time.


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## Pookietooth

BellinghamCutie, who is your doctor? I'd be willing to drive to Bellingham if I could end up doing as well as you are.


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## BellinghamCrunchie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
BellinghamCutie, who is your doctor? I'd be willing to drive to Bellingham if I could end up doing as well as you are.

Dr. London, at London Health Center in Ferndale, WA. She's supposed to be a specialist in women's fatigue, and she's a naturopath. But really, all I did was the adrenal stress test from Canary Club (the saliva one) and took the results to her - she wanted to do bloodwork for thyroid since she doesn't feel saliva is accurate for thyroid (but is accurate for adrenal) and iron. After the results she gave me Nature Throid 1mg, an adrenal supplement like Mil Adregen, and a prenatal vitamin with extra iron. I only actually saw her twice. I guess my case was easy or something. Seems to me any naturopath could do what she did, really.


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## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I believe that is good advice, however, it is a lot more likely that your hormones will go out of whack than it is that you will suddenly become unable to digest gluten at 30 or 40 something, isn't it?

Actually it's more common than you would think. Gluten intolerance/celiac isn't something that just affects children (or starts in childhood). My uncle discovered he had celiac when his kids were mostly grown up. And he only started having symptoms a few months or a year before. From what I've read, a stressful event can trigger it, as well as changes in the body or environment. I've heard the same about gluten intolerance (as opposed to celiac). Also, things can "pile up" in your body, and eventually it's too much. Or, you can have a problem with a food, and have really minor symptoms, but something changes in your body and things get worse, or just the eating of it for so long when you shouldn't be eating it (not knowing, of course) can just get to be too much for the body. Anyway, there are many reasons an adult might "suddenly" have problems with gluten, or any other food for that matter.

Again, though, I'm not saying that hormones couldn't be the root cause of the big belly. I'm just saying that there could be other causes, and if treating the hormonal imbalance doesn't help, maybe gluten or other foods is a place to look next. Sometimes we get so focused on a particular issue that we forget about looking at others (I know I've done that more than once).

I know this thread has been helpful to me, to show me that there can other reasons for my health issues other than just MS. Things I can do something about! It's easy with MS (and I think with other things, too) to just assume that everything, or almost everything, I'm experiencing is because of the MS, with little or nothing I can do about it. That's a bit of trap, because then it's easy to miss something that might need treatment.

Well, now I'm rambling, and avoiding getting up and doing the things I need to be doing while ds is napping.


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## bigeyes

Interesting. I'll have to read up on that. I think there are some people in the group with celiac disease also, come to think of it.


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## Rachel J.

I've been out of pocket for a while, subbed to the thread but that apparently doesn't work 100% of the time







I've been taking an herbal supplement, started an adrenal extract about 1 month ago and cut out the huge amount of chocolate I'd been eating







I recently noticed that I'm not so tired all the time, I don't always feel like I need to nap with the baby and can actually function if it doesn't happen. My digestion is still going to crap, I had to cut out raw dairy because it suddenly started giving me diarrha and cut out gluten because it was causing digestive woes as well. My eczema on my hand was raging out of control and within two days of stopping the dairy it started improving







I had a little setback when I ate a brownie but it's getting a little better.

Does anyone else have problems with their teeth that they didn't have before the adrenal fatigue symptoms? I've always had really good teeth but all of a sudden I developed dark spots and yellowing on the top and bottom front teeth. Then, the other day, they turned blue/gray! That stain finally faded away for the most part, I think it was from drinking tea or taking acerola powder. I'm not very eager to go to a dentist because honestly, I'm not sure they really know what they're doing half the time







: I guess my health issues and research have made me a bit jaded about mainstream medicine, including dentistry. Okay, now I'm rambling.

I'm going to see an ND in about a month and I can't wait to have my thermography scan and electrodermal screening and then get a cabinet full of supplements and my homeopathic treatment magnetic strip card (he doesn't give the traditional drops/pills, it's now on a card that you wear on your body)







No really, this is more exciting than a day at the spa for me.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jamie79* 
Metasequoia...Could the itchiness be due to Vit D deficiency? I am just grasping at straws here. You were at the beach and felt better and now you don't, since you haveleft the *sunny* beach...maybe. This whole adrenals/thyroid thing is so confusing and som many things interconnect, that it is hard to know where to connect the dots.

Nope, definitely not, I had my D levels tested this past WINTER & they were HIGH! I'm a garden designer (tho I haven't sought out many jobs in the past year) but I'm in the sun all of the time nonetheless. I also take high vitamin cod liver oil which has a lot of vitamin D. Good guess though!

I had my adrenal appointment yesterday & my BP was "okay" (100/60) but barely rose when I stood up. Hmph. That's a backwards step but I attribute it to 2 things, the first being that I've had this nasty cough for 3-4 weeks that keeps me up at night (along with the itching) & the second being exdp being a pain in my arse.

So anyway, my doc & I again discussed allergies as being a possible cause of the itching & he was pleased when I said that I had an appointment at the sister facility to start the allergy testing process. My doctor there was perplexed & had never heard of anyone itching only on the upper body & mostly only at night, BUT, when we walked back to the allergist lab, the allergist said that it's actually NOT that uncommon & that my symptoms were shouting MOLDS! Especially since the itching disappeared when I went away, so this could mean mold in the air OR it could mean mold in my house - I tend to think the latter because we have had many a leak & I can SEE the black mold in the bathroom which is right next to my bedroom.
He also said that one allergy can lead to another, like, if I'm reacting to mold, it can set off a reaction to gluten - I know, sounds nutso, but it made snse when he explained it.

SO, we'll start with environmental allergen testing & then move on to food.

I would be ECSTATIC if all of this was from mold, I know it'll be big bucks to fix, but at least the mystery will be solved. Of course, I still have adrenal fatigue & I have the proof on paper, but many, many people with AF have allergy problems & it works both ways, the adrenals can't heal until the allergen is removed & the allergen will continue to be an allergen until the adrenals heal & the immune system repairs itself. Tricky business.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Nope, definitely not, I had my D levels tested this past WINTER & they were HIGH! I'm a garden designer (tho I haven't sought out many jobs in the past year) but I'm in the sun all of the time nonetheless. I also take high vitamin cod liver oil which has a lot of vitamin D. Good guess though!

I had my adrenal appointment yesterday & my BP was "okay" (100/60) but barely rose when I stood up. Hmph. That's a backwards step but I attribute it to 2 things, the first being that I've had this nasty cough for 3-4 weeks that keeps me up at night (along with the itching) & the second being exdp being a pain in my arse.

So anyway, my doc & I again discussed allergies as being a possible cause of the itching & he was pleased when I said that I had an appointment at the sister facility to start the allergy testing process. My doctor there was perplexed & had never heard of anyone itching only on the upper body & mostly only at night, BUT, when we walked back to the allergist lab, the allergist said that it's actually NOT that uncommon & that my symptoms were shouting MOLDS! Especially since the itching disappeared when I went away, so this could mean mold in the air OR it could mean mold in my house - I tend to think the latter because we have had many a leak & I can SEE the black mold in the bathroom which is right next to my bedroom.
He also said that one allergy can lead to another, like, if I'm reacting to mold, it can set off a reaction to gluten - I know, sounds nutso, but it made snse when he explained it.

SO, we'll start with environmental allergen testing & then move on to food.

I would be ECSTATIC if all of this was from mold, I know it'll be big bucks to fix, but at least the mystery will be solved. Of course, I still have adrenal fatigue & I have the proof on paper, but many, many people with AF have allergy problems & it works both ways, the adrenals can't heal until the allergen is removed & the allergen will continue to be an allergen until the adrenals heal & the immune system repairs itself. Tricky business.

People with adrenal problems tend to be chemically sensitive and allergy prone anyway. Black mold is nasty stuff and very dangerous. I would consider moving if at all possible, but if you are going to fix it, be sure you hire a reputable contractor who knows what they are doing. It is serious business. Research it all you can.

A dear friend of mine had that stuff in her home and it was eventually condemned. Her son is permanently disabled from his allergic reaction to it, which included seizures. Tragic and preventable, but nobody knew about these things at the time. They got an insurance settlement, but the damage is permanent and something that can never be made right.


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## Brookesmom

Well, I'm still pretty tired at times from the night nursings and AF, but after taking some high potency multivitamins and minerals for 3 months now and extra vit D and sometimes CLO, my hair has stopped falling out. If I miss vits for a few days I notice it starting to fall out again!

I go back next month for a recheck on thyroid and iodide and Vit D levels and to see if I need to start some natural thyroid meds. I'll know more then I suppose.

-Kelly

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
I admit I *still* haven't read through this thread --too tired







: but I wondered if anyone one here has recovered or at least feels a zillion times better like no fatigue, hair grew back and an existing libido??







:

Someone please say yes.


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## linguistmama

I posted this question on the thyroid thread also. Does anyone have any references about starting hydrocortisone while pregnant? Normally I would think no way, but I have hyperemesis again and am taking a class C anti nausea medication. If adrenal fatigue is the root cause of the HG I would at least like to read some about hydrocortisone online to learn a little more.


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## linguistmama

Another question. What types of chemicals are people with AF usually sensitive to? I can't take anything in tablet form without getting a bad headache and really irritible.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
I posted this question on the thyroid thread also. Does anyone have any references about starting hydrocortisone while pregnant? Normally I would think no way, but I have hyperemesis again and am taking a class C anti nausea medication. If adrenal fatigue is the root cause of the HG I would at least like to read some about hydrocortisone online to learn a little more.

did you try googling 'hydrocortisone pregnancy' ? I am not sure about that one, but you might try the natural thyroid hormones adrenals group on yahoo and post the question.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes*
Black mold is nasty stuff and very dangerous. I would consider moving if at all possible, but if you are going to fix it, be sure you hire a reputable contractor who knows what they are doing. It is serious business. Research it all you can.

I researched it. I'm scared. How do you find a reputable contractor who *really* knows what they're doing?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
Another question. What types of chemicals are people with AF usually sensitive to? I can't take anything in tablet form without getting a bad headache and really irritible.

Personally (& I know this is true for most people with CFS) my chemical sensitivities include, but are not limited to, cologne/perfume, any kind of fragrance like soap, lotion or room spray, scented candles, chemical cleaners, gasoline fumes, weed killer, cigarrette smoke, new car smell, PVC smell (when you buy something like a yoga ball or inflatable pool toy), etc, etc.

It's not something that needs to be ingested, just an exposure can make people sick. Sick can mean headache, nausea, fatigue, pain, itching, etc.


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## Metasequoia

double post. oops.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
Another question. What types of chemicals are people with AF usually sensitive to? I can't take anything in tablet form without getting a bad headache and really irritible.

I'm sensitive to everything. smells give me headaches like crazy, can't do the soap aisle at the store and I never go through the cosmetic/perfume area of the department stores. I buy unscented everything, and most drugs seem to affect me more than they should, except for pain relievers which seem to just do nothing.

What do you take that gives you headaches? The irritability and headaches themselves are often adrenal symptoms. Did you read over any of the symptom checklists?
http://www.google.com/search?client=...=Google+Search


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I researched it. I'm scared. How do you find a reputable contractor who *really* knows what they're doing?


You know what? I am not entirely sure, but I will give my friend a yell and see what kind of advice she can offer. It seems to me there were some articles about how to be sure it was done properly, but I am such a paranoid freak I would move. With all my health problems I seriously do not screw around with chemicals or environmental weirdness _at all._ I'll post information as soon as I have an answer from her.

ETA-I have not heard back from her yet, but I have done some research and it sounds like you need to read the EPA site
http://www.epa.gov/mold/moldresources.html

and maybe some of these.
http://www.mold.ph/
http://www.mold-help.org/content/view/203/
http://theforagerpress.com/bookstore.../blackmold.htm

The people who make money at this may be a little mercenary, but honestly, after witnessing what my friend went through, I would leave no stone unturned if that stuff was in my house.


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## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
I posted this question on the thyroid thread also. Does anyone have any references about starting hydrocortisone while pregnant? Normally I would think no way, but I have hyperemesis again and am taking a class C anti nausea medication. If adrenal fatigue is the root cause of the HG I would at least like to read some about hydrocortisone online to learn a little more.


I've been taking HC all through this pregnancy. I actually credit it with being able to keep this pregnancy as I had 2 miscarriages last year. If you give me your email I can send you a couple of articles that I have.

I also have the book "Safe Uses of Cortisol". That completely convinced me that the HC was fine and probably necessary in pregnancy. I could photocopy the sections where it talks about HC and pregnancy and mail them to you if you want as well. The book is pretty expensive (like $50) to buy.....

I can't tell you what a huge difference taking it has made during the pregnancy for me. I've mentioned this before but last year I could barely even get off of the couch. I started to feel that way this time around 12 weeks and I raised my dose at that point. I have felt great ever since!!


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## lastrid

How about HC while nursing?


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## NocturnalDaze

It's fine for nursing too. Cortisol is something our bodies need to function properly. We're not making enough of it so by taking LOW DOSES of hydrocortisone we are just replacing what we should normally have. HC is bioidentical to our own cortisol.

Now, if you look into HC online you'll probably find that you'll be told more often than not that it isn't safe. Just keep in mind that advice is for high doses like for people that have arthritis and problems like that. In low doses it IS safe though.


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## bigeyes

Heard back from my friend, she says if you rent, run like hell or get your landlord to fix it or move you. If he won't do anything, call the EPA, go to a doctor and get tested for Aspergillis and Stachabotris mold, then call an attorney. I think some of the links I posted earlier tell you how to find attorneys who handle this sort of thing, if not, google. She sued and won, btw, but like I said, the permanent damage was already done so while she got money she never got her old life back and her son will never be as he was again.


----------



## linguistmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I'm sensitive to everything. smells give me headaches like crazy, can't do the soap aisle at the store and I never go through the cosmetic/perfume area of the department stores. I buy unscented everything, and most drugs seem to affect me more than they should, except for pain relievers which seem to just do nothing.

What do you take that gives you headaches? The irritability and headaches themselves are often adrenal symptoms. Did you read over any of the symptom checklists?
http://www.google.com/search?client=...=Google+Search

I have several of the symptoms on both the thyroid and adrenal sides. Smells and perfume chemicals don't seem to bother me. Anything in tablet or capsule form gives me a headache and lots of irritibility. Things like pills, vitamins and encapsulated herbs. I'm guessing there is some chemical or filler that bothers me. I can take things in liquid form, like liquid vitamins or liquid medications. I'll be getting the adrenal saliva test soon.


----------



## Doodadsmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
Another question. What types of chemicals are people with AF usually sensitive to? I can't take anything in tablet form without getting a bad headache and really irritible.


Are you taking vitamin D and magnesium? Taking them together could give you a headache (they need to be spaced out).


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Doodadsmom* 
Are you taking vitamin D and magnesium? Taking them together could give you a headache (they need to be spaced out).

that's good to know. Any idea why that is? I take magnesium 3 x a day so I'll be sure to move my vit d.


----------



## Rachel J.

Metasequoia,







. The mold thing is really hard to deal with. We had it in our house when we first moved in, but didn't know about it for a while. The previous owners hadn't sealed the sink around the countertop when they put it in so water was constantly dripping into the base cabinet. I had allergy issues every night and even dh, whose normally untouched, started reacting. We decided to redo the bathroom and when dh pulled out the cabinet there was white/gray mold growing under it. The subflooring was affected too, he pulled out a large area and attacked the crawl space with bleach. There were white billowy "mountains" of the stuff growing on the floorboards under the house. It was really creepy looking. We probably should have hired a professional but didn't know at the time. I immediately felt better. Then our crawl space was flooded during a tropical storm and all the A/C ductwork was soaked. We started getting mold growing on all the surfaces that weren't frequently touched, like doors and shoes in the closet. We had new ductwork put in (it had been flooded before apparently and was probably kicking mold spores into the house even before the flood we experienced) and one day I sent my then baby ds1 to a friends and wiped down all surfaces that looked tainted with an alcohol/water mixture. Bleach kills the surface mold but the molecules are too large to penetrate and kill the roots. I've noticed less and less of it around the house over the past few years so I think I'm winning the battle. It's also not bothering me so I don't think there's much around, especially with my sensitivities. Just thought I'd share my horror story-turned-manageable.


----------



## mombh

:

I need to ask a question which I know has been answered somewhere in the thread.....I can't go back now and look







:








I have an appointment with midwife this week (she does well woman care,and I feel most comfortable seeing her for just about everything!!)
She is going to send me for blood panel/thyroid etc;
One question is should I have her sign for the saliva test?
Is it only af test that is more accurate through saliva and all the rest through blood test or is there more I shold check with the saliva test?
tia


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mombh* 







:

I need to ask a question which I know has been answered somewhere in the thread.....I can't go back now and look







:








I have an appointment with midwife this week (she does well woman care,and I feel most comfortable seeing her for just about everything!!)
She is going to send me for blood panel/thyroid etc;
One question is should I have her sign for the saliva test?
Is it only af test that is more accurate through saliva and all the rest through blood test or is there more I shold check with the saliva test?
tia

Definitely have her sign for the saliva AF panel - I posted a link to the Diagnos-Techs "Adrenal Stress Index" (ASI) which is what I had done. I know that saliva testing is most accurate for adrenal testing but I don't know about anything else. You might post in the Thyroid thread & ask there.


----------



## thefragile7393

Subbing here.

I was recently diagnosed with an adrenal gland that is adapted to stress. I'm on a buttload of supplements, ExcitaPlus, AdreCore, Travacor, Taurine, and Seriphos. I feel really good but this stuff is $$$, not including visits to the nature doc, and I just wish I could manage this on cheaper supplements. This has been a very fascinating thread and I look forward to reading more up on it.


----------



## amydawnsmommy

To help replenish my adrenals I've been taking Now's True Calm.
I only take it if I'm sure I won't be going out as it can induce drowsiness.
Also it can't be taken at the same time as my antidepressant.

I try to avoid having coffee when unneccesary as it becomes too much after 5-6 days in a row. Also I've been taking Vitamin B12 strips which help with stress and apparently (I just read this in an article) help regulate the sleep-wake cycle and the release of melatonin.

These things have been working for me.


----------



## thefragile7393

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, I don't THINK it has, but I have a great book called Tired of Being Tired, by Jesse Lynn Hanley, M.D. I got this 2 years ago before I even heard of adrenal burnout or was even tested. It talks about diet, etc. It takes a lot of recipes from Nourishing Traditions....a cookbook I definitely want to get my hands on.

I'd also like to try and get the supplements from this company
http://www.futureformulations.com/. They are here in town. I interviewed with them for a receptionist position...sadly I didn't get it (go figure!) but I did enjoy learning about their products more. I'm already on a bunch of stuff, like I said in my previous post, but it gets so expensive....I'm burnt out on the money lol.


----------



## captain crunchy

*bump* a lot of useful information here!


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## Turkish Kate

Holy Cow. I found this thread while searching for a completely unrelated topic and am just amazed. Can this be what's wrong with me? The last few months, I've been complaining to DH about how insanely tired I am, dizzy spells/vertigo, bizarre hypoglycemia (after eating!), etc. I have such a hard time waking in the morning and then "hit the wall" around 4 pm and have to have coffee or tea and a sweet snack. I crave sweets, which has never happened before. I'm nursing DS (aka SuckMonster) round the clock and *gaining* weight. I get confused, can't remember names of people and things, and generally feel unable to cope with life in general. I've had a long history of depression, but this feels different. I had a severe case of mono as a teen (out of school/life for over 3 months) and this fatigue feels somewhat similar to that, but more fatigue of my brain than my body. It feels like my brain literally shuts down. I ache, especially my back, but it's not the same as it's been before (granted I have a messed up back).

I've skimmed this whole thread and there's a lot of good information here, but I don't know what to do with it. I'm not in the US, I'm in Turkiye, and have no idea how to find a decent allopathic doctor, let alone a naturopath who deals with this sort of thing. I'm going to keep reading, keep googling, but would love to hear suggestions about how to deal with this outside of the US.


----------



## Metasequoia

My doctor, at Clymer Healing Center in PA, does phone appointments. If you've read at least the first few posts, you know the jist of it. I listed Clymer's info in one of the first posts, my doctor is Dr. Neville, he does phone appointments all over the world.

Yours sounds like adrenal and/or thyroid, both are inextricably related.

You should be able to do some of the self tests there - a doctor should take your bp after you've been laying down for a few minutes & again, immediately after you stand up (you might get the light-headed feeling, I do.) It should rise by 5-10 points upon standing & then stop. He should also take your b again, after about 20-30 seconds after you rose to standing to make sure that it doesn't keep rising. If it doesn't rise at all or even drops upon rising, it's safe to say that you're suffering from adrenal fatigue to some extent.
You should be able to send saliva samples to Diagnos-Techs lab & Dr. Neville can help you interpret them & provide proper treatment.

Glad you found this thread.


----------



## Turkish Kate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
My doctor, at Clymer Healing Center in PA, does phone appointments. If you've read at least the first few posts, you know the jist of it. I listed Clymer's info in one of the first posts, my doctor is Dr. Neville, he does phone appointments all over the world.

Actually, that's how I found this thread--you mentioned that he had a phone appt. from Turkiye while you were there.

I talked to DH about this last night and he's convinced that I'm depressed. Given that I have a nearly 30 year history of major depression, I can see how he'd leap for that. But I keep telling him--this is different. I've always had a heavy element of anger to my depression, but I'm not angry. I don't hate the world. The world just makes me tired. So very tired. I love my children with all my heart, but I want to get away from them because they wear me out. I want to sit in an empty room with no noise or unnatural light and just BE. At first I thought this was post-partum something-or-other, but DS is almost 8 months and it's not getting better.

I'm going to ask DH to start looking for an endocrinologist today so that we can cover all the usual suspects like thyroid and pituitary issues. I remember years ago having a few patients whose doctor ordered cortisol and ACTH tests and I had to draw blood at specific times (I'm a nurse), but I don't remember anything else about it. Would these be of any use in diagnosing adrenal fatigue? I understand the saliva test is the gold standard, but don't know if anyone here will be able to do anything with it. I've got a lot to learn about this and the information is so overwhelming--but everything is overwhelming to me right now.


----------



## Metasequoia

I thought I said Poland - out of the US nonetheless!

I'd be leary of going by blood tests - mine varied so much from my saliva test. If you can get a doctor to sign for the Diagnos-Techs test, it'll only cost you $99 (plus maybe more in shipping since you're out of the US) & you can at least know where you stand. I don't think that just cortisol would be enough, in blood testing, it only measures your level at one time during the day - the fluctuation of the levels is what is really important in figuring out how to treat, kwim? I'm not sure about just doing the ACTH either.
Clymer can also help you find a doctor who might know more than most others about AF.


----------



## Pookietooth

Turkish Kate, I think ongoing depression can affect the glands, including the thyroid and the adrenal glands, because the stress it causes. And they in turn make depression worse. Negative feed loop. Question is, what needs to be treated first?


----------



## Turkish Kate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I thought I said Poland - out of the US nonetheless!

I'd be leary of going by blood tests - mine varied so much from my saliva test. If you can get a doctor to sign for the Diagnos-Techs test, it'll only cost you $99 (plus maybe more in shipping since you're out of the US) & you can at least know where you stand. I don't think that just cortisol would be enough, in blood testing, it only measures your level at one time during the day - the fluctuation of the levels is what is really important in figuring out how to treat, kwim? I'm not sure about just doing the ACTH either.
Clymer can also help you find a doctor who might know more than most others about AF.

I tried calling Clymer yesterday, but only got an answering machine. Their website doesn't list their business hours and they don't say on the outgoing message, either. Do you know off-hand? I also sent an email asking if they know of anyone here, but haven't heard back.

I'm leery of ordering the test from here because customs is really bizarre about what they will let in/out, especially where healthcare is concerned. I don't want to be out $200 for something that gets impounded that I'll never use.

I've had a couple of references from a friend for two naturopaths and she says that they both speak English. I need to get my husband to call (I don't speak Turkish well enough) and see what their experience is, if any, with adrenal fatigue. I think DH is suffering as well. We've both been under enormous pressure since his mother moved in with us (83 with dementia and multiple health issues that she refuses to address)


----------



## Turkish Kate

Did I kill another thread?







:


----------



## linguistmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turkish Kate* 
Did I kill another thread?







:

I'm still here! Just waiting on my test results and then I'll probably have treatment option questions.


----------



## bigeyes

Turkish Kate, I don't know what to tell you, your situation is really rough.








The first place I would start is googling for natural hormone treatments in your area. Look for adrenal fatigue support groups online and see if there is anyone nearby who has successfully treated themselves or found a good doctor.

Where are you exactly? I don't know what to offer other than a


----------



## Turkish Kate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Where are you exactly? I don't know what to offer other than a









Istanbul, Turkiye. Thanks so much for the hug.

I had DH make an appointment with an endocrinologist for tomorrow. This was something that I had asked him to do before I found this thread and heard of adrenal fatigue. I made a list of all of my symptoms and hopefully will remember to take it with me. I'm so afraid that the doctor is going to think that I'm a nutjob and refer me for a psych eval. Unfortunately the naturopaths that my friend referred me to do NOT speak English and DH is not comfortable translating healthcare-related stuff.

I've googled adrenal fatigue and Istanbul and Turkiye/Turkey but have come up completely empty-handed. The only hits I get turn out to be Google Ads that have nothing to do with the subject. I hate Google Ads with a passion.

I'm wondering if my inability to track time would have anything to do with adrenal fatigue? I blink and think that it's been 2 seconds, but it's actually been half an hour. I have no idea where the time goes. Anyone else?


----------



## bigeyes

that sucks.







there is a book on adrenal fatigue that might have some resources. I'll look around and see if my copy is unpacked, maybe I can find some online resources for you.

How frustrating. The language barrier would drive me insane. I'll go post in my adrenal fatigue group and see if anyone can offer any suggestions.


----------



## bigeyes

here is a place I just heard about that may have some help to offer:

http://www.intlhormonesociety.org/forum/

ETA-there is a book by a guy named Jeffries, called Safe Uses of Cortisol, someone suggested you get a copy of it also, and show it to any doctor you go to.


----------



## splunky

I am wondering if you can help me out with DH? I was diagnosed with Adrenal Fatigue earlier this year, and pop in here every once in a while, but mostly lurk (














.
I am concerned that he may have adrenal fatigue, if only a very mild form. But, am I just being paranoid cause it's what I have and I fear everone will get it due to our insane lifestyle?
His main complaint is major fatigue. He has slightly high blood pressure and slightly high cholesterol as well. (warning tmi) His interest in sex has been very little lately (makes me happy seeing how with adrenal fatiuge i have none either!). His work is extremely stressful, traveling across the world every couple of months, sometimes twice in one month. He is also in a executive MBA, very stressful during the week of class. Not to mention we have 4 kids and live in Asia, away from family. His parents are going through cancer stuff (more stress), and he has had to put up with me sleeping eccessively everyday due to my medical stuff since the baby's been born (1 yr ago).
His diet isn't bad, but definatley a bit too much sugar, and he relies on caffeine despite my continually telling him not to. The soda isn;t even giving him the lift he needs anymore.
I am worried, and keep telling him to get bloodwork, but he's being stubborn about it. He wants to se a regular Doc. not the one I see. He's not into a more natural lifestyle as I am.
Only thing is he doesn't get the highs at night often associated with A.F. He is exhausted in the evening, and often goes to ed when the children do. He gets up in the morning fine usually, but ALWAYS wants to nap right after lunch, on weekends or when he can.
He gets exercise often and tries to play golf for stress relief/fun. He's good about those things.
What do you all think?? I just wan tto see him better with more energy like he used gto be! Thanks for the thoughts.


----------



## Turkish Kate

Okay, so saw the endocrinologist who speaks English. Her primary concern was that I am exclusively nursing my almost-8-month-old DS. She started talking about how they should be on solids at 4 months. Ummm . . . . no. I told her that current recommendations are to wait until at least 6 months, but it is a moot issue with DS who won't swallow solids usually, and when he does just vomits. Weaning is not going to happen. She made some comment about the baby sucking my energy, but if that's the case, then why am I gaining weight? Doesn't make sense if calories in and calories out are roughly equivalent. My BP was 102/60, the low end of normal, but then I was incredibly anxious to be seeing the doctor in the first place so I think it was actually up from normal. She didn't do any other physical exam except for the usual heart tones/breath sounds (which are normal, of course). She ordered a bunch of labs that I have to get drawn between 7 and 8:30 am. I dunno how I'm going to make it to the lab with a baby in tow, but I'll figure something out. I have my doubts that the labs will show anything except the fringes of normal but here's the list:
*ALT/AST (liver function)
*BUN, Creatinine, uric acid (Kidney function)
*Basic chemistry panel: calcium, phosphorus, potassium, sodium, GGT(not sure what this is), glucose
*Cholesterol panel: cholesterol, LDL, Triglycerides, HDL
*Anemia panel: folic acid, B12, hemoglobin, hematocrit, and a couple of things I can't translate
*erythrocyte sedimentation rate
*thyroid panel: TSH, Free T4, Free T3
*cortisol

I guess this is someplace to start, but I have the feeling that weaning is going to be her solution--she seemed really bent on that. I'll go for the next visit armed with _The Womanly Art_, although I don't know that it will do any good. I have the feeling that I'm going to have to piece together something from overseas and I hate having to do that. Ugh.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turkish Kate* 
Okay, so saw the endocrinologist who speaks English. Her primary concern was that I am exclusively nursing my almost-8-month-old DS. She started talking about how they should be on solids at 4 months. Ummm . . . . no. I told her that current recommendations are to wait until at least 6 months, but it is a moot issue with DS who won't swallow solids usually, and when he does just vomits. Weaning is not going to happen. She made some comment about the baby sucking my energy, but if that's the case, then why am I gaining weight? Doesn't make sense if calories in and calories out are roughly equivalent. My BP was 102/60, the low end of normal, but then I was incredibly anxious to be seeing the doctor in the first place so I think it was actually up from normal. She didn't do any other physical exam except for the usual heart tones/breath sounds (which are normal, of course). She ordered a bunch of labs that I have to get drawn between 7 and 8:30 am. I dunno how I'm going to make it to the lab with a baby in tow, but I'll figure something out. I have my doubts that the labs will show anything except the fringes of normal but here's the list:
*ALT/AST (liver function)
*BUN, Creatinine, uric acid (Kidney function)
*Basic chemistry panel: calcium, phosphorus, potassium, sodium, GGT(not sure what this is), glucose
*Cholesterol panel: cholesterol, LDL, Triglycerides, HDL
*Anemia panel: folic acid, B12, hemoglobin, hematocrit, and a couple of things I can't translate
*erythrocyte sedimentation rate
*thyroid panel: TSH, Free T4, Free T3
*cortisol

I guess this is someplace to start, but I have the feeling that weaning is going to be her solution--she seemed really bent on that. I'll go for the next visit armed with _The Womanly Art_, although I don't know that it will do any good. I have the feeling that I'm going to have to piece together something from overseas and I hate having to do that. Ugh.

Kate, go to the natural thyroid hormones adrenals group and ask Val for advice, she is the guru when it comes to deciphering the test info. I posted your first question there and they told me to send you over! I am still not very good at deciphering the test results or knowing exactly what means what, so I always ask Val.


----------



## Turkish Kate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Kate, go to the natural thyroid hormones adrenals group and ask Val for advice, she is the guru when it comes to deciphering the test info. I posted your first question there and they told me to send you over! I am still not very good at deciphering the test results or knowing exactly what means what, so I always ask Val.

Is that the Yahoo group? Feeling a little overwhlemed by all of the information out there.







:


----------



## splunky

Turkish Kate, I have not been able to read your whole story yet, but wanted to come in and empathise. I am b'feeding a 1yo and have been going to a Dr in Singapore, who wants me to wean as well. This was out of the question and he knew it from the beginning when I was diagnosed (dd was 2mo). He says the baby is draining my energy as well. I continued to gain weight also. I had lost all of my preg weight (only 12 lbs) at her 1 wk mark, and now, she is 1yr and I am 20lbs overweight!
My thyroid is low due to my adrenal insufficiency. I am taking a dessicated n adrenal from a reputable online resource, that my Dr approved, and am also on a thryoid med also. Magnesium and Vit. C is amazing for adrenal insuff. also. These are all things that are okay while b'feeding.

The Yahoo group is very overwhelming, but if you ask Val for advice, she is very helpful. She is super busy answerinfg everyone's questions, but always takes the time. Head over there when you have your lab results and she can help interpret them as well.
Feel free to email me if you'd like. wendy


----------



## Metasequoia

My naturopath asked me about the possibility of nightweaning but didn't push it at all when I said I wouldn't do it - Ds was 1 year at the time. Ds is now 20 months & he's still not ready to give up his night-nursies.

I'm sort of expecting to feel a whole lot better once Ds does nightwean and maybe even better once he weans altogether - though I might feel pretty down for a while. I LOVE our bfing relationship & it makes me sad to think about it ending, especially since Ds will probably be my last baby.

Kate,

I think that if you could get your hands on some good supplements, it would help you immensely. Without a proper saliva test (ASI) you shouldn't take hormones, like pregnenolone, etc, but I think you'd benefit from standard adrenal support:

raw glandulars, *from a good source, grass fed cattle, preferably from New Zealand

Dr. Baschetti's licorice - this stuff is SO delicious mixed with raw milk!









magnesium citrate or MamaCalm

Vitamin C - sodium ascorbate

A good B-complex

Cutting out caffeine, completely, avoid potassium, consume lots of sea salt, I've also started to use dried kelp on my food for iodine, going to bed by 10pm at the latest, sleeping as late as possible...my brain is toast ATM, I'll post back if I can think of anything else.


----------



## BeingMe

My naturopath is pushing for me to wean too. She wanted at 18 months but we are at 18 months and not ready. I told her possibly 22 months(I would have 2 months pumped to get her to 2 years), but she really pushed for 20 months. I have been cutting out sessions(we were doing 7 a day), and now we nurse about 4 times a day. I want to cut out the 11pm feeding, but a little worried she will wake more. right now she wakes around 5am to nurse, which is fine since she goes back to sleep. But I'm worried if I cut the 11pm she will wake more than once. She did good with the feeding cuts, acutally she never asked, I was the one who went and got her to nurse. I think she was ready to stop the ones we have stopped, I was always interrupting her play to go nurse.
Ok, enough of my rambling. Thanks momma's for the thread. It's very helpful.
Oh, and my regime is Isocort, Iodoral(iodine), Sea Salt, T3(just started), and my other vitamins like magnesium, post natal and vitamin C. She wanted to give me a licorice drink but wasn't comfortable with it and nursing.


----------



## Turkish Kate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
My naturopath asked me about the possibility of nightweaning but didn't push it at all when I said I wouldn't do it - Ds was 1 year at the time. Ds is now 20 months & he's still not ready to give up his night-nursies.

I'm sort of expecting to feel a whole lot better once Ds does nightwean and maybe even better once he weans altogether - though I might feel pretty down for a while. I LOVE our bfing relationship & it makes me sad to think about it ending, especially since Ds will probably be my last baby.

Kate,

I think that if you could get your hands on some good supplements, it would help you immensely. Without a proper saliva test (ASI) you shouldn't take hormones, like pregnenolone, etc, but I think you'd benefit from standard adrenal support:

raw glandulars, *from a good source, grass fed cattle, preferably from New Zealand

Dr. Baschetti's licorice - this stuff is SO delicious mixed with raw milk!









magnesium citrate or MamaCalm

Vitamin C - sodium ascorbate

A good B-complex

Cutting out caffeine, completely, avoid potassium, consume lots of sea salt, I've also started to use dried kelp on my food for iodine, going to bed by 10pm at the latest, sleeping as late as possible...my brain is toast ATM, I'll post back if I can think of anything else.

Thanks for the advice. I can get the B-complex, Vit C, and Mag, but the adrenals and licorice will be difficult. (Doesn't licorice drop your milk supply? I think I remember something about this, but my memory is kinda spotty these days.) I've never seen anything like that here and we don't have much in the way of health-food-type stores. We're pretty well limited to a reduced-inventory GNC. I never drink milk. Yucky. I don't know how in the world I will cut out caffeine. I did pretty well when I was pregnant--no coffee and limited my Turkish tea to 2 cups/day--but since baby was born, I've been slowly increasing my caffeine intake to the point that I'm not drinking much water anymore. I am drinking quite a bit of mineral water, though. I like the fizziness, reminds me of soda, but without the sugar and uckiness. I've been looking for sea salt without any luck for months.

I do go to bed early, generally by 10pm. DS nurses to sleep and I generally fall asleep with him. He's a night-nurser and doesn't eat much during the day, so night-weaning is definitely not going to happen. I also have a religious obligation to nurse for two years, so that needs to be taken into consideration, as well. We usually wake up together around 9 or so, sometimes a little earlier, so it's not like I'm not getting enough sleep-time hours. Granted, I wake several times in the night to switch sides, reposition, etc., but I'm not waking fully and I don't feel classically sleep-deprived, although I have had visual and auditory hallucinations, which I generally have when I'm extremely exhausted.

So I've been reading more about the mixed hypothyroid/adrenal fatigue thing and remember from tests done years ago that I was on the low end of normal for thyroid function--the lowest 1/3 of the curve, IIRC. From what I've read, this is actually a symptom of adrenal fatigue and that treating the "borderline" hypothyroidism can actually exacerbate the adrenal fatigue issue and make me sicker. Have I got that straight?

Lab tests should be back tomorrow and I'll probably see the doctor either tomorrow or Tuesday. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions by then. Thanks for all the information!


----------



## Metasequoia

I'm not sure Kate, about treating the borderline hypo & increasing the severity of the adrenal fatigue. I can ask my naturopath, but it won't be until the day before Thanksgiving.

Caffeine is HUGE, I really, really think you should try to wean yourself off of it, it just drains all of the cortisol from your body, something it's already struggling to maintain.

I'm pretty sure that my doc gets the Dr. Baschetti's licorice from Italy - I get that it might be impossible to get it through customs, but at least it's closer to you! I just did a search for Dr. Baschetti's licorice & found this interview - it explains why he recommends using milk. I've never had painful/swollen lymph nodes, but my naturopath believes that CFIDS (CFS)/Fibro is caused by adrenal fatigue, so I sort of took everything Dr. Baschetti said about that with a grain of salt - sea salt.








Darn, I got sidetracked - during my search I came across some bad info on Health Board after a poster asked about licorice in treating AF & I, of course, had to register & add my 2 cents.







Now I've lost my train of thought...

Shannyshan,

Does your naturopath want you to wean completely or just at night? I can see how nightweaning could help our situations, but I don't see a problem with daytime nursing. My naturopath is anxious for me to resume my cycles (the other AF







) because he thinks it'll help to balance out my (sex) hormones but I'm opposed to inviting her back just yet.









I don't know about your Ds, but I nurse mine all night with the feedings getting closer in the early morning hours. I get up, make my delicious licorice drink & by the time Ds wants to nurse again, it's been quite a few hours. He's usually so busy in the morning (he's 20 months today.) I've been taking licorice for over 6 months now & I haven't noticed any problems with him.

I think licorice is really big in terms of healing adrenals.


----------



## WannabeaFarmer

Ok I am new here..








I have ben diagnosed with Graves Disease for 2.5yrs and even though m thyroid is "under control" according to the docs-I still feel "off". I am tired all the time, still losing my hair, thirsty all the time...I just cant figure it out and after reading some of the thread, I am leaning toward AF...
I just dont feel right ykwim?
All the docs seem to think I am a hypochondriac
Cause they do the standard tests and the are "normal".
So I thought I should join in the discussion.
Hi


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jess12808* 
Ok I am new here..








I have ben diagnosed with Graves Disease for 2.5yrs and even though m thyroid is "under control" according to the docs-I still feel "off". I am tired all the time, still losing my hair, thirsty all the time...I just cant figure it out and after reading some of the thread, I am leaning toward AF...
I just dont feel right ykwim?
All the docs seem to think I am a hypochondriac
Cause they do the standard tests and the are "normal".
So I thought I should join in the discussion.
Hi









Have you looked into gluten intolerance?


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## WannabeaFarmer

I had all kinds of food and alergy intollerence testing and those all came back negative...I dunno.


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## Brookesmom

Gosh, can't you tell the doctor about this so she won't pressure you anymore.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turkish Kate* 
I also have a religious obligation to nurse for two years, so that needs to be taken into consideration, as well.

My Dr. didn't tell me to wean at my appt 2 months ago but she told me that night nursing would make me tired and seemed surprised I was still nursing at 19 months or so and didn't have my postpartum AF yet. I guess she's not used to seeing many extended nursers.







It would be really nice if DS nightweaned though I'm not going to push him before he's two, which he'll be in January... I have a feeling it will help my cortisol cycles a lot though.

I find out my test results in about 3 weeks, including whether she'll put me on Armour thyroid. For now I wait, and read.









-Kelly


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## mombh

I know I have read somewhere that wild yam is very nourishing to the adrenals and is also safe while pregnant and nursing.....
have any of you used wild yam ???
Also , I saw an herbal adrenal support by "Micheal's " with rhodiola..something
can any of you reccomend that one?
which herbs in your opinions work the best????
tia


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## Rachel J.

I just read that tumeric works like corticosteroids, about 1/2 as well but with none of the side affects. I'm not sure if that's just for inflammation/arthritis-type problems, or for all things steroid-related (i.e. adrenal fatigue). At any rate, it seems like a pretty safe and easy treatment, if I can just get around to buying an encapsulator and making up some pills. Also good for prostate cancer prevention, I believe, although I think that's one problem I won't have to worry about







.

I'm not sure what's going on with me right now. I was starting to feel a bit better, more energy, less cranky, less IBS-type symptoms, etc. But this past week I've been tired, cranky, heart flip-flopping today my legs are aching again, I'm getting dizzy when I bend over, teeth feeling fuzzy and turning yet a darker shade of brown (just gross, I don't want to talk or smile at anyone) etc., etc. I can't quite figure out what's changed. I'm just hanging on for two more weeks until I go to the ND who will have all the answers and give me lots of pills to fix my problem, right? Well, I guess staying up until 11:30pm isn't helping any.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
I'm not sure what's going on with me right now. I was starting to feel a bit better, more energy, less cranky, less IBS-type symptoms, etc. But this past week I've been tired, cranky, heart flip-flopping today my legs are aching again, I'm getting dizzy when I bend over, teeth feeling fuzzy and turning yet a darker shade of brown (just gross, I don't want to talk or smile at anyone) etc., etc. I can't quite figure out what's changed. I'm just hanging on for two more weeks until I go to the ND who will have all the answers and give me lots of pills to fix my problem, right? Well, I guess staying up until 11:30pm isn't helping any.

Me too! Well, most of it - I've also been feeling more achey/tired/grumpy this past week. Even my legs have been achey, and my lower back. I slept maybe 2 hours the other night because of the stupid adrenaline surges & itching. I started taking MASSIVE aounts of vitamin C as well as 2 Seriphos before bed the last two nights & I've slept pretty well.

Have you tried the Seriphos yet, Rachel J.?


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## Pookietooth

If you are going to have your cortisol levels tested, should you stop taking licorice for a bit first? Just wondering.


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## splunky

My Dr wants me to have more testing since I have been on meds for 9 mo. He said all I need to do is stop the meds/supps for a day or tow before testing and it should be fine.
But I was thinking I should be off them for longer to show the true function of my adrenals ect. without recent supplementation. What do you think?
I have been off the thyroid and adrenals for about 1 week, and the progesterone cream for 3 days. I plan on going to test on Monday, it's a 24 hr urine test, to test cortisol levels. Is this sufficient time to be off the supps?
I AM SO TIRED!!!

Also, have any of you looked into a raw foods diet for healing? I have been eating about 75% raw for a few mo. and when I am diligent in eating 100% I feel AMAZING! It is difficult, especially around the holidays, but if it makes me feel that much better, it's so worth it. I mean the amount of energy I had went through the roof, compared to what was normal for me before! The problem is I have kindof slacked and eaten more cooked foods the last few weeks, man do I feel the difference! This has motivated me to stick to it even more, I want that energy and clarity back.
Just a thought.


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## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *splunky* 
Also, have any of you looked into a raw foods diet for healing? I have been eating about 75% raw for a few mo. and when I am diligent in eating 100% I feel AMAZING! It is difficult, especially around the holidays, but if it makes me feel that much better, it's so worth it. I mean the amount of energy I had went through the roof, compared to what was normal for me before! The problem is I have kindof slacked and eaten more cooked foods the last few weeks, man do I feel the difference! This has motivated me to stick to it even more, I want that energy and clarity back.
Just a thought.

I've always been a "cooked food" kind of girl but it might be worth trying if it's that helpful. I'm not sure if I can psyche myself up for it right now though, I'm so freakin' cold all the time with this low body temp, I just want something hot inside to warm me up. Cold food (not that all raw food is served cold, but you know what I mean) just doesn't sound at all appealing to me. Although I do have to admit that I really enjoyed some of the raw foodie recipes I tried a while back. Unfortunately it was mostly dried fruit/nuts/grains types of things, not exactly the most nourishing options.

Oh, my dh told me that he ran into our pastor today who asked how we were all doing. Dh told him about my current problems and described it to him as it's like I'm on meth







: (teeth turning brown and spotted, weird red spots on my legs). He keeps saying I seem toxic, like I've been poisioned by something. Since my adrenal fatigue results just showed mild fatigue, I'm guessing there's something else going on. 2 weeks and counting until I maybe get some answers.


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## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Have you tried the Seriphos yet, Rachel J.?

I'd never heard of it until you mentioned it







I don't really have trouble sleeping, except for being awaken to nurse all night long. I usually start out in my bed with dh then move to the matresses with the boys when one of them wakes up. As long as I'm in my bed where I can lay comfortable (not crammed between to little bodies) I'm usually sleeping beautifully. Is it good for general adrenal/stress support? I'm taking an adrenal tissue pill once a day, I wonder if I could increase the dosage to two?

Speaking of adrenal tissue, we get grass-fed beef by the side from a local farmer. I wonder if I could ask for the adrenal glands? And if I got them, would I just shave a little off each day? Or just pop them like candy?







I'm trying to do more bone broths and organ meats so I asked for the heart this time around. That's about as far as I can go (besides the usual liver) right now. My cousin is a chef and does amazing things with random organs but I'm not quite that daring.


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## Pookietooth

I can't handle milk, even raw milk any suggestions for a substitute to go with the licorice? I wouldn't drink Gatorade that he suggested. Maybe some agave necter and salt in water? Almond milk?


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
I can't handle milk, even raw milk any suggestions for a substitute to go with the licorice? I wouldn't drink Gatorade that he suggested. Maybe some agave necter and salt in water? Almond milk?

How about rice milk? I'd think that the phytates in almond milk would further deplete your body of minerals.


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## neveryoumindthere

Do you ladies suggest going to a naturopath for all the testing/supplements/hormones, or should I try this MD first? The thing is I don't really like her, seems pushy, BUT she supposedly specializes in female hormones, does the bio-hormones, runs a women's clinic ..but also does botox and other things I wouldn't think someone who was into natural healing would be into (can't think of the names of the 'procedures' right now

When I saw her last and asked her about upping my T3 level (my free t4 was midrange and tsh was normal)which was in the bottom 1/3 of the range, she said increasing my t3 would give me heart palpitations *shrugs*

any advice?
Also how much did you all pay for your saliva test? She's charging $220


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## BellinghamCrunchie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
How about rice milk? I'd think that the phytates in almond milk would further deplete your body of minerals.

Could you say more about the phytates in almonds? I eat a TON of almonds (I'm having a hard time finding foods to eat on a low-carb diet and nuts are easy - I'm allergic to several other kinds of nuts).

Could my eating almonds have anything to do with me needing to take a great deal of additional iron just to keep my iron levels up?

Also, I don't know what it was, but my teeth suddenly turned blackish/brownish too! It was so gross! I had them cleaned at the dentist and she thinks its something I'm eating. I think it might be the stews I cook for five hours in an iron pot in the oven. Not really sure.


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## AngelBee

I have been diagnosed with Hypoglycemia and severe ADHD.

I have had joint/muscle pain since 2005 in arms and 2007 in legs. All tests for arthritis, lupus, lime's are negative. No connective tissue disorder detected.









Makes me wonder about this......







:

Any advice?







(will try to make it through this thread)


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## Pookietooth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
How about rice milk? I'd think that the phytates in almond milk would further deplete your body of minerals.

Hm, hadn't thought about that. What if I soaked the almonds first? Rice milk is too high glycemic for me, in fact I'm only supposed to drink water and herbal tea according to my naturopath.


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## Pookietooth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
Could you say more about the phytates in almonds? I eat a TON of almonds (I'm having a hard time finding foods to eat on a low-carb diet and nuts are easy - I'm allergic to several other kinds of nuts).

Could my eating almonds have anything to do with me needing to take a great deal of additional iron just to keep my iron levels up?

Also, I don't know what it was, but my teeth suddenly turned blackish/brownish too! It was so gross! I had them cleaned at the dentist and she thinks its something I'm eating. I think it might be the stews I cook for five hours in an iron pot in the oven. Not really sure.

Hmm, the tooth darkening is something I'm having a problem with too, and I eat a lot of nuts, too. I try to soak my nuts as much as possible, but don't always have time. With almonds, you could blanch them as well as soaking them. I try to do that when I make almond milk, as I've heard the tannins in the skins interfere with mineral absorption as well.


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## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee* 
I have been diagnosed with Hypoglycemia and severe ADHD.

I have had joint/muscle pain since 2005 in arms and 2007 in legs. All tests for arthritis, lupus, lime's are negative. No connective tissue disorder detected.









Makes me wonder about this......







:

Any advice?







(will try to make it through this thread)

Have you looked into gluten intolerance or tried going grain- and sugar-free? I had bouts of light-headedness and joint pain/stiffness that went away on a strict anti-candida diet.


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## AngelBee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Have you looked into gluten intolerance or tried going grain- and sugar-free? I had bouts of light-headedness and joint pain/stiffness that went away on a strict anti-candida diet.

This is part of what we are deciding right now too.

So much to change though.







:


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## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee* 
I have been diagnosed with Hypoglycemia and severe ADHD.

I have had joint/muscle pain since 2005 in arms and 2007 in legs. All tests for arthritis, lupus, lime's are negative. No connective tissue disorder detected.









Makes me wonder about this......







:

Any advice?







(will try to make it through this thread)

A simple thing to try would be increased magnesium supplementation. If you're mag depleted you can get the aches/pains. I get it in my legs and also when I'm in my hips while I'm sleeping. I get cramping if I'm not getting enough calcium. I take about 800-1200mg/day of mag and about 600mg of cal. 400mg mag with 300mg cal 2xs a day and then another 200mg mag 1-3xs throughout the day when I remember. If you need the mag you'll start to feel better. If you don't then you'll probably get a mild case of diarrhea







I use mag citrate as it's better absorbed than oxide (which is the common form found most multis and at the drugstore).


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## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
Also how much did you all pay for your saliva test? She's charging $220

Hmm, I think mine was covered by insurance (never saw a bill for it). I believe at the beginning of this thread it was mentioned that you can get one done through the Canary club for less than than, $149 maybe?


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## Brookesmom

Hi,

I go to a nutritional/integrative medicine M.D. who does bioidentical hormones, etc, but I don't believe she does anything like botox and believes the free T3 should be in the upper third of the range, so I am pleased with her. I'm not sure about yours... I'd have to give that pause. But can naturopaths prescribe Armour or hydrocortisone if you need it? I'm not clear on that.

Anyways, I got my saliva (adrenals and DHEA) from Genova Diagnostics through my MD- She didn't charge me- I paid Genova directly. It was $35 up front and then the balance after since I don't think my insurance covered any of it. I can't find the second payment but it was around $70-90, still about half of what you're saying unless you are getting a lot more tested!

Good luck and let us know what you do...

I have my follow up appt next week.







:

--Kelly

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
Do you ladies suggest going to a naturopath for all the testing/supplements/hormones, or should I try this MD first? The thing is I don't really like her, seems pushy, BUT she supposedly specializes in female hormones, does the bio-hormones, runs a women's clinic ..but also does botox and other things I wouldn't think someone who was into natural healing would be into (can't think of the names of the 'procedures' right now

When I saw her last and asked her about upping my T3 level (my free t4 was midrange and tsh was normal)which was in the bottom 1/3 of the range, she said increasing my t3 would give me heart palpitations *shrugs*

any advice?
Also how much did you all pay for your saliva test? She's charging $220


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BellinghamCrunchie* 
Could you say more about the phytates in almonds? I eat a TON of almonds (I'm having a hard time finding foods to eat on a low-carb diet and nuts are easy - I'm allergic to several other kinds of nuts).

Could my eating almonds have anything to do with me needing to take a great deal of additional iron just to keep my iron levels up?


YES!

All nuts, seeds, legumes & most grains have phytic acid (aka phytates.) They're enzyme inhibitors & they bind with nutrients in our bodies & escort them out thereby depleteing our bodies of the nutrients. There are a couple of methods to reduce phytic acid, one is sprouting & the other is a long soak. It depends on what you're soaking, but for nuts & seeds, it's just salt & water, usually just overnight. In the morning, you drain off the water & dehydrate the nuts.

Sally Fallon's recipe for Crsipy Almonds is as follows:

*4 cups raw almonds
1 TBSP sea salt
filtered water

*As of this September, it's nearly, if not completely, impossible to find truly raw almonds as our lovely government declared that all almonds need to be pasteurized.







: Be careful because conventional almonds are treated with a carcinogenic chemical to pasteurize them. Organic almonds are heat treated, which destroys the enzymes & leads to rancidity.
I stocked up on truly raw almond butter in late August but have given up almonds.









If you want any other recipes from Nourishing Traditions, LMK.


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## Pookietooth

Trader Joe's and our local health food store are selling some organic raw almonds from Spain that are supposedly truly raw, but comparing them with the ones I used to get, they seem pretty darned cooked. I haven't tried soaking them yet -- they were too yummy to wait, silly me. And too pricey to buy many of. But next time I buy some, I'll try soaking them and see if they plump up.
You probably want to blanch them too, because the tannins in the skins can be irritating (and I think they interfere with iron absorption). Once blanched, you can make almond milk with them or toast them (like slivered almonds only yummier)


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## Savmay

I skimmed through this thread (wow, lots of great info...)
*Wondering if any of you with AF ever had nerve pain, burning sensations in the arms/legs?*
I am seeking the whole picture in terms of my health right now.
I do have a gluten/dairy sensitivity so I am now off those and seem to be improving somewhat. but, still having the nerve symptoms and insomnia, foggy-ness during the day.
And my baby seems to have insomnia too!
I think I better ask my ND to order the saliva test for me. I just sent off my stool to entero lab to see if I have celiac or just sensitivity (gluten).
Already had MRI with contrast, tons of blood work (only thing off was my Alkaline Phospate was slightly elevated), a nerve conduction study. All normal.

thanks!


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Savmay* 
I skimmed through this thread (wow, lots of great info...)
*Wondering if any of you with AF ever had nerve pain, burning sensations in the arms/legs?*

I did! Mine was on the back of my scalp, my neck, upper back, shoulers & upper arms mostly, but if I dragged my fingernail across my leg, it felt like I had a sunburn there as well. That's how I described it, like a bad sunburn everywhere - is that what you mean?
When I had it (it lasted about 3-4 months) I thought it was the worst symptom ever, but now I think the muscle pain is worse.
The only places I ever found anything about the "skin burning sensation" was on the menopause board, the anxiety board & the Lyme board. The adrenals would be suffering in all 3 of those situations.
My thought is this: when I went through the skin burning, I was at my highest stress/anxiety level ever, this is probably when I was constantly pumping adrenaline, constantly in that flight-or-flight mode & my cortisol was probably through the roof. Now that I've almost completely depleted my cortisol levels, I don't have the skin burning - so since it's listed as an anxiety symptom, I tend to think that it's an adrenaline thing. Just my thoughts.


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## Brookesmom

I don't get the nerve pain, but the hip and back muscle aches. I thought I had fibromyalgia at one point after researching. It turns out that many people believe fibro is related to low adrenal and thyroid... I need to get more magnesium. I've been taking epsom salt baths lately but can't really tell if it's helping yet.

I go tomorrow for my follow up and I'm going to ask for some cortisol. Is anyone else on Cortef?

--Kelly


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## Savmay

thanks for answering about the burning sensations. I actually just got my labs back and I have a toxic level of vitamin B6 in my blood stream. A couple of years ago when I had this burning pain, I had been taking high levels of B vitamins and found I was overdosing on B6. The burning went away eventually after stopping taking the supplement. now, it is back even tho I was only taking a much lower dosage of B6. Apparently, my body can't process or eliminate B6 and it builds up to neuro-toxicity. This is rare but documented. I am stopping the supplement and hoping the burning stops. I am worried tho: is my baby getting too much b6 in my milk since i have about 10 times the safe levels in my bloodstream? any ideas?


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Savmay* 
thanks for answering about the burning sensations. I actually just got my labs back and I have a toxic level of vitamin B6 in my blood stream. A couple of years ago when I had this burning pain, I had been taking high levels of B vitamins and found I was overdosing on B6. The burning went away eventually after stopping taking the supplement. now, it is back even tho I was only taking a much lower dosage of B6. Apparently, my body can't process or eliminate B6 and it builds up to neuro-toxicity. This is rare but documented. I am stopping the supplement and hoping the burning stops. I am worried tho: is my baby getting too much b6 in my milk since i have about 10 times the safe levels in my bloodstream? any ideas?

VERY interesting! I'm going to mention this to my adrenal doctor.

I think that I really need to see where I stand as far as vitamins, minerals & toxicity. However, I'm breastfeeding (a lot) and I've heard that it can interfere with this type of testing.
Anyone know?


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## Rachel J.

I finally went to a ND last Thursday. Apparently I only have mild adrenal fatigue which he thinks will be resolved as my other health issues are resolved. I think it may have improved some since my saliva test earlier this year as I've been taking adrenal glandular. He found that I have high levels of mercury and cadmium, gut flora is messed up, yeast, aflotoxin (I'm guessing from the half a jar per sitting of peanut butter I was eating), spirokeets (which cause Lyme disease), sensitivity to wheat, spelt, dairy and peanuts; and last but not least, high levels of oxidation. He said to keep taking the extra mag I've been taking for my achey legs because the spirokeets use up a lot of it which is probably causing my deficiency. I'm still nursing ds quite a bit which has me a little worried with the mercury, but I guess that's a concern for another thread


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
I finally went to a ND last Thursday. Apparently I only have mild adrenal fatigue which he thinks will be resolved as my other health issues are resolved. I think it may have improved some since my saliva test earlier this year as I've been taking adrenal glandular. He found that I have high levels of mercury and cadmium, gut flora is messed up, yeast, aflotoxin (I'm guessing from the half a jar per sitting of peanut butter I was eating), spirokeets (which cause Lyme disease), sensitivity to wheat, spelt, dairy and peanuts; and last but not least, high levels of oxidation. He said to keep taking the extra mag I've been taking for my achey legs because the spirokeets use up a lot of it which is probably causing my deficiency. I'm still nursing ds quite a bit which has me a little worried with the mercury, but I guess that's a concern for another thread









I'm confused, did he do a blood test & the lab saw spirochetes? Spirochetes are spiral rod-like bacteria that can cause a few diseases, like syphilis, relapsing fever, Lyme, etc.
Where abouts do you live? If it's a Lyme endemic area, that would be my first guess - actually it is my first guess because the others aren't very common.

What else did he say about trying to get rid of the bacteria? This interests me very much since I thought from day 1 that Lyme was at the root of my problems, I've just had a heck of a time proving it.

Oh, and what brand of peanut butter do you eat? We only eat Arrowhead Mills because it's made from valencia peanuts which are grown in dry areas so they're not likely to have aflotoxins. Like you, I eat 1/2 cup of PB in a sitting! I love dipping my apples into it.


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## splunky

"_Oh, and what brand of peanut butter do you eat? We only eat Arrowhead Mills because it's made from valencia peanuts which are grown in dry areas so they're not likely to have aflotoxins. Like you, I eat 1/2 cup of PB in a sitting! I love dipping my apples into it._ "
I love peanut butter too, and could eat a whole jar at a sitting! I found that taking Magnesium dramtically reduces my need for peanut butter and chocolate as well. Also, when I went on holiday for 10 days once, I forgot my supps., well, by the time I got back, I was craving Peanut butter and chcocolate so badly, I thought I was going crazy! I would have litterally given my arm for some!

"_I don't get the nerve pain, but the hip and back muscle aches. I thought I had fibromyalgia at one point after researching. It turns out that many people believe fibro is related to low adrenal and thyroid... I need to get more magnesium. I've been taking epsom salt baths lately but can't really tell if it's helping yet_."
I was actually diagnosed with Fibro 11 + yrs ago. Turns out I don't have it, thank God! But, I have AF, low thryroid, Leaky Gut and food intolerances. Which came first? Who knows. The Mag. supp really helps with the aches and pains, and actually I have drastically reduced achyness when taking out all my food intolerances. When I am bad with that, I get the aches back. Dumb. Brain fog and fatigue are the worst right now. The Adrenal hormones and Thyroid meds help with that, but not alot.

Get this, I just had a hormone profile done last week. It cost me $800







:. I live in Asia and it had to be sent to the states. It's a 24hr urine test. Hopefuly it will show acurately what is going on. I am b'feeding my 1yr old so know my hormones won't be totally normal. When we did the blodd test 9 mo ago, it showed my dhea was rock bottom and my progesterone was that of a menopausal woman.


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## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I'm confused, did he do a blood test & the lab saw spirochetes? Spirochetes are spiral rod-like bacteria that can cause a few diseases, like syphilis, relapsing fever, Lyme, etc.
Where abouts do you live? If it's a Lyme endemic area, that would be my first guess - actually it is my first guess because the others aren't very common.

What else did he say about trying to get rid of the bacteria? This interests me very much since I thought from day 1 that Lyme was at the root of my problems, I've just had a heck of a time proving it.

Oh, and what brand of peanut butter do you eat? We only eat Arrowhead Mills because it's made from valencia peanuts which are grown in dry areas so they're not likely to have aflotoxins. Like you, I eat 1/2 cup of PB in a sitting! I love dipping my apples into it.

Hmm, I'm really hoping that it's Lyme and not syphillis







I'm in the Southeast (doc is in Atlanta) so Lyme is pretty common. My sister and BIL both had it a few years ago and she was finally able to get pregnant after it cleared her system. She has it again







: but wasn't suprised since they lived in the woods for a few years and were getting bit by all kinds of ticks, mosquitoes and fleas. Anyhoo, he used a bioterrain urinalaysis and thermography for the initial assessment and electrodermal screening to find the spiroketes and other issues. He's careful not to say that he's diagnosed anyone with Lyme disease since he's been sued multiple times by the AMA for praciticing medicine without a license (I mean, how dare he actually *help* people). I'm on IntraMax for the spiroketes, and possibly a homeopathic remedy, although I don't see one on my list. The ND actually takes it as a preventative because he has a cabin in the mountains he goes to frequently.

I usually try to get Maranatha brand pb because of aflotoxins but I ate tons of it before I ever knew about that issue. Now I'm sensitive to peanuts so I guess it's a non issue for me, although not for the rest of my family


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## jamie79

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rachel J.* 
Hmm, I'm really hoping that it's Lyme and not syphillis







I'm in the Southeast (doc is in Atlanta) so Lyme is pretty common. My sister and BIL both had it a few years ago and she was finally able to get pregnant after it cleared her system. She has it again







: but wasn't suprised since they lived in the woods for a few years and were getting bit by all kinds of ticks, mosquitoes and fleas. Anyhoo, he used a bioterrain urinalaysis and thermography for the initial assessment and electrodermal screening to find the spiroketes and other issues. He's careful not to say that he's diagnosed anyone with Lyme disease since he's been sued multiple times by the AMA for praciticing medicine without a license (I mean, how dare he actually *help* people). I'm on IntraMax for the spiroketes, and possibly a homeopathic remedy, although I don't see one on my list. The ND actually takes it as a preventative because he has a cabin in the mountains he goes to frequently.

I usually try to get Maranatha brand pb because of aflotoxins but I ate tons of it before I ever knew about that issue. Now I'm sensitive to peanuts so I guess it's a non issue for me, although not for the rest of my family









So, is he basically saying you have lyme without actually saying you have lyme? Since you have spirochetes? Did you get a blood test for the lyme?

As far as your sister...my ND told me there are a lot of differing opinions on whether you ever really get rid of lyme disease, at least chronic lyme (which mine is)or just get it under control. Just that you get yourself well and your immune system strong through supplements, avoiding allergenic foods and eating a wholesome diet with very low sugar, also chiropractic care, and avoiding toxins & stress in general. All of that supports the body to heal. At that point a lot of people test again and it comes up negative. However, it is hard to tell whether the lyme is truly gone or hiding (which it does so well). Regardless, there have been patients who initially tested negative after a positive, only to test positive again at a later point in time, usually after a stressful to the body situation. It is most interesting to me, since I have lyme and a whole load of other problems that I am dealing with because of the lyme (adrenal fatigue, thyroid issues, low vitamin & mineral stores, some too high minerals, muscle pain & faitgue, emotional issues, etc, etc, etc). I also want to get well enough to have another baby (or 2







), but realize that I _may_ never get rid of the lyme, so.....

Anyways, I am rambling, just wanted to comment on your comment!

Jamie


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## Metasequoia

I thought about this more after I went to bed. I was tested for lyme (& co-infections) through IGeneX lab in Palo Alto & band 41 was triple positive, you know, 41+++. Band 41 means that they saw *a lot* of "something with a tail" (a flagella.) I called the Dr., the owner of the lab, & he said that even an eskimo that never stepped off an ice burg (hypothetically speaking, of course) would test positive for band 41.

So I wonder what the heck this all means.

I talked to a friend today whose son has Autism (vaccine damaged) & on one of the Autism lists she frequents, one woman's children all tested positive for Lyme, mycoplasma & some other stuff. She found a great doc & I think through her own research, maybe his too, they theorized that Bt, the bacteria used as a pesticide (& used in GMO foods, particularly corn) was invading peoples' bodies, showing up in blood tests as Lyme, mycoplasma, etc. Oh, and Bt was responsible for killing off a lot of the bees. It was discovered that fish oil prevented the bees from dying so the mom tried it with her kids & their symptoms dissipated.
I was driving through the bank talking on my cell when she told me all of this







:, so I probably butchered a lot of it, but I asked her to email me anything she had on this subject. I thought it was all pretty interesting.


----------



## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jamie79* 
So, is he basically saying you have lyme without actually saying you have lyme? Since you have spirochetes? Did you get a blood test for the lyme?

As far as your sister...my ND told me there are a lot of differing opinions on whether you ever really get rid of lyme disease, at least chronic lyme (which mine is)or just get it under control. Just that you get yourself well and your immune system strong through supplements, avoiding allergenic foods and eating a wholesome diet with very low sugar, also chiropractic care, and avoiding toxins & stress in general. All of that supports the body to heal. At that point a lot of people test again and it comes up negative. However, it is hard to tell whether the lyme is truly gone or hiding (which it does so well). Regardless, there have been patients who initially tested negative after a positive, only to test positive again at a later point in time, usually after a stressful to the body situation. It is most interesting to me, since I have lyme and a whole load of other problems that I am dealing with because of the lyme (adrenal fatigue, thyroid issues, low vitamin & mineral stores, some too high minerals, muscle pain & faitgue, emotional issues, etc, etc, etc). I also want to get well enough to have another baby (or 2







), but realize that I _may_ never get rid of the lyme, so.....

Anyways, I am rambling, just wanted to comment on your comment!

Jamie

I guess he's saying I have Lyme, no one actually said, "you have Lyme disease" but they gave me lots of info on Lyme disease (which I'm just getting around to reading but is extremely interesting and maybe I'll discuss in a different thread) and he said that he found spiroketes. I'm not sure that my sister was ever told that she was healed of the spiroketes but she was cleared according to her electrodermal screening, if that makes any sense







She's actually pregnant again and almost wasn't going to go to her appointment (she made it because they'd been TTCing and it weren't successful, tried for several years with their first) so I'm glad she kept it.


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## mbravebird

Hi all,

I have been in various stages of healing my adrenals -- I've been very successful, and then life happens (kid in the hospital, which happens regularly, etc), and I will relapse a bit. I'm so glad to find this thread.

My question is -- could the stabbing, shooting pain I have gotten for the past few years be another adrenal symptom? I never thought of it until I read some of you talking about it, but I didn't see anyone mention the stabbing, shooting kind of pain. Has anyone had that connected to their adrenal fatigue? Mine has always been in my ribcage and back area, and sometimes it's been so painful that I've had to stop what I was doing and just breathe. Stabbing, lacy, spreading, shooting pains.

(Just for info's sake, my other main symptoms were low body temperature, constant dehydration(mild to severe symptoms), insomnia, headaches, fatigue/energy of course, short luteal phase, dizziness when standing up, hair loss, belly weight, malabsorption and superfast digestive system. All of these symptoms improved to a significant degree after doing an intensive adrenal healing regimen, but then come back in varying degrees when I am very stressed or lose a lot of sleep.)

For me, sleep is so key that if I don't get it, the nutritional stuff won't do much. My son finally started sleeping through the night at age three (before that he sometimes woke me as often as every 45 minutes, never longer than two hours), and I have had the ability to recover since then.

So glad to find this thread!!!


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## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I thought about this more after I went to bed. I was tested for lyme (& co-infections) through IGeneX lab in Palo Alto & band 41 was triple positive, you know, 41+++. Band 41 means that they saw *a lot* of "something with a tail" (a flagella.) I called the Dr., the owner of the lab, & he said that even an eskimo that never stepped off an ice burg (hypothetically speaking, of course) would test positive for band 41.

So I wonder what the heck this all means.

I talked to a friend today whose son has Autism (vaccine damaged) & on one of the Autism lists she frequents, one woman's children all tested positive for Lyme, mycoplasma & some other stuff. She found a great doc & I think through her own research, maybe his too, they theorized that Bt, the bacteria used as a pesticide (& used in GMO foods, particularly corn) was invading peoples' bodies, showing up in blood tests as Lyme, mycoplasma, etc. Oh, and Bt was responsible for killing off a lot of the bees. It was discovered that fish oil prevented the bees from dying so the mom tried it with her kids & their symptoms dissipated.
I was driving through the bank talking on my cell when she told me all of this







:, so I probably butchered a lot of it, but I asked her to email me anything she had on this subject. I thought it was all pretty interesting.

Wow, I'd love to hear more about this! So even our "organic" measures are coming back to bite (or invade) us? I was looking for Bt last year for our garden, didn't find it locally. Now what to do?


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## Brookesmom

I think the problem from the Bt pesticide came when they decide to genetically engineer the plants to include the Bt. Google "Bt pesticide" and you'll get lots of info!


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## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brookesmom* 
I think the problem from the Bt pesticide came when they decide to genetically engineer the plants to include the Bt. Google "Bt pesticide" and you'll get lots of info!

Ah, well that would make sense. They just can't leave well enough alone, can they?


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## mbravebird

Anybody tried Relora? I'm considering it.
https://www.immunesupport.com/shop/p...cription#title

It's an herbal supplement that regulates and normalizes levels of cortisol and DHEA in the body -- reduces cortisol production and raises dhea production.

I read about it here, on an adrenal fatigue website: http://adrenalfatigue.homestead.com/...upplement.html
She's had good success with it.

Anyone here also had good experiences with it?


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## bigeyes

first you need to find out if you are _low_ or _high_ cortisol. you can also get the big belly from low cortisol, which means relora will make you worse.

have you had your AM and PM cortisol levels tested? I had problems from low cortisol when I quit smoking because smoking produces cortisol. If I smoked, I instantly lost my belly. If I stopped, I would gain within a week, all in the abdominal area. I couldn't figure this out until someone in my adrenals group told me that cigarettes produce cortisol, which helps my thyroid medication get into my cells to go to work.







: Taking hydrocortisone does the same thing, so that is what I do now.

If you can't get your doc to test you, try canary club.


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## mbravebird

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
first you need to find out if you are _low_ or _high_ cortisol. you can also get the big belly from low cortisol, which means relora will make you worse.










Yes, of course. Thank you for pointing that out. I got saliva-tested once by a doctor a long time ago, before I had a babe, but I don't remember the details of the results. I came away with the idea that I have low cortisol, however, and this time have been treating myself accordingly and having good results. (Which is why it's so funny that I didn't put two and two together about the Relora! Maybe it's my brain fog, lol.) I took adrenal with cortex, among other things, last winter and spring with good results and then reduced it in the summer when my symptoms started getting a lot better.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
If you can't get your doc to test you, try canary club.

Thank you for this recommendation! I have bookmarked it. With that price, I wouldn't be able to afford basic supplements after getting the test! And I actually already did my supplement order last night. So maybe I'll save up to do the test in the spring.

I have the big belly now since our latest bout with lost sleep and hospitals, which does happen regularly for us, so I really have to figure out how to keep myself healthy through those times. The belly responds amazingly well to adequate sleep, though -- it's amazing. You can look at my belly and guess how much sleep I've gotten recently.







My dehydration symptoms, however, continue on even with increased sleep. After really stressful days, I wake up in the middle of the night with a dehydration headache (from being asleep and therefore, not drinking), and that is followed in short order by throwing up and GI stuff. Ugh. Why does the body do that when it's dehydrated??


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## bigeyes

I dunno. Apparently it is possible to have high cortisol at one time of day and low at another, so it is important to be tested at least AM and PM, and if possible multiple times of day. Do you belong to the natural thyroid hormones adrenal group on yahoo? Or have any books on adrenal fatigue? If you aren't hypo not all of the adrenal stuff would apply from the group, but there are a lot of people there who are very well versed in the whole cortisol/adrenal relationship who can explain it a lot better than I can.
There is a book by someone named Jeffries about 'safe uses of cortisol' that is out of print iirc, but I think copies are still available at a premium price online if you want to try to 'self educate.' I find it easier to just ask questions since I can't remember s***.


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## amydawnsmommy

Just today I had a BodyTalk session that helped to clear a major issue that was draining energy from my entire body including my adrenals.

I highly recommend anyone dealing with adrenal fatigue look into this.
It helps the brain to balance the body out. It's very cool.


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## splunky

I have been very interested in all you guys have been posting. Most of the time I get at the computer is when b'feeding my dd, so typing doesn't happen much.
Anyway, I read somewhere that maca helpful to balance out the endocrine funtion, and is an adaptogen. Do any of you have experience with this? Good, bad, ugly? LOL

I am also very impressed with you MBRAVEBIRD, you seem so in tune with your body. I guess when I am so tired and foggy headed, it's hard to tell just what causes things. I do definately notice a difference with stress though! I don't stay away from my food intolerances 100% so I think that messes withe my system, and I have a hard time figuring out what is causing which symptom. Ya know?

Also, what do you all do for exercise? I had a personal trainer a while back. We started working again,l very light, on the treadmill and some resistance stuff. I got so exhausted after 2 workouts (mon and wed.) that I was burned out for 2 weeks. I am now too nervous to do more than walking and pilates/yoga type stuff. Am feeling quite motivated to move some excess weight, but not sure how to go about it.

I had a 24hr urine test for a hormone/endocrine type panel done and should get the results sometime next week hopefully. This will give me a better idea of where my function is at. I don't know if this will give an adequate idea of my cortisol levels, and the saliva tests are not available here. But with the morning extremem fatigue, huge slump in the afternoon time and boost after dinner, it seems like my cortisol levels are a bit backwards?
I still prefer my naps far more over shopping, or any other fun activity, looking forward to this ending!

One more question. Have any of you looked into a raw foods diet for healing? I am not sure if I posted this question before or not. I feel alot better when consuming mostly raw foods, but have a hard time staying away from chocolate fully. Bad, I know, but come, a girl can only give up so much! lol
Thanks for all your support!


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## bigeyes

splunky, a lot of people who know about this stuff tell you to be careful not to overdo exercise. If it leaves you exhausted you're doing too much.

I used to work out approximately 3 hours a day long ago, so it's really hard for me to understand 1/2 hour or an hour being too much, but some days it is.
From what I understand, even having a cold, getting into an argument or going to the dentist adds to your adrenal fatigue.


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## splunky

Yes, I have found those stressors to be a mjor factor also. Recently I have been trying to leanr better communication techniques and my dh and I have been really thriving from it, not to mention the stress is drastically reduced.
It's just hard to balance the exercise thing. I want to, but am truly afraid to, due to what happened before. I guess I need to "not stress about it", it will only make matters worse.


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## thefragile7393

Hi splunky! I've heard maca root can be great for fertility, so for straightening out hormones it kind of makes sense that this would work too.

I don't exercise at all like I should.

The book I read, Tired of Being Tired, recommends a whole foods diet, much like Nourishing Traditions, so that's what I've been trying to follow, but I've also heard that raw foods can do much to alkalinize and help the adrenal glands....if you feel good on it, follow it as much as you can! I know the chocolate thing....hee hee.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
From what I understand, even having a cold, getting into an argument or going to the dentist adds to your adrenal fatigue.

I just figured this one out. Since mid September, I've had clinically dx'd Pertussis, which went straight into a sinus cold/infection in November, then a weird virus with a low grade fever which did a number on me & then right into a stomach bug. I have been sick NON-STOP since mid September & I NEVER GET SICK! I still have a bit of the Pertussis cough - I guess it's called the "100 day cough" for a reason, eh? But that one virus really knocked me for a loop - I was achier than ever for almost a week. I even called my adrenal doc to ask what the heck was going on & he explained that when the body takes a hit, the adrenals take a beating & it takes a while for them to come back up again.

I am really so sick & tired of feeling achey & tired. I don't think that I have fatigue so much as my muscles are just weak & tired & then I have the brain fog which just makes me feel like a big pile of sludge. Bah.

I get angry every once in a while & decide that I'm going to go excercise my arse off but I know that it'll just make me even worse.









It'll be nice to get rid of the belly fat one day.


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## bigeyes

It seems to me the 2 things I was diagnosed with have a lot of the same symptoms, fibromyalgia and adrenal fatigue. And the same cause, _burnout._

Before, I was able to work 2 or 3 jobs, 7 days a week, run on little sleep, exercise, totally _not_ take care of myself, and still feel great. Apparently all of that is what led to years of feeling like [email protected] now.







It's like I used everything up, yk?


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
It seems to me the 2 things I was diagnosed with have a lot of the same symptoms, fibromyalgia and adrenal fatigue. And the same cause, _burnout._

Yep....burnout of the adrenals!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes*
Before, I was able to work 2 or 3 jobs, 7 days a week, run on little sleep, exercise, totally _not_ take care of myself, and still feel great. Apparently all of that is what led to years of feeling like [email protected] now.







It's like I used everything up, yk?

Yep, used up all of our cortisol.


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## Pookietooth

There is raw cacao for a substitute for chocolate. It doesn't taste the same, of course. My worries about raw are: I already have blood sugar issues (insulin resistance, hypoglycemia), and most raw foods are pretty high glycemic and low in protein. I was told to always eat as many grams of protein as carbs, or even more protein than carbs, and to eat mostly low glycemic plant foods, like greens, granny smith apples, etc. and avoid grains, most sweet fruit, etc. What would be left to eat?
Anyway, firefaery, who used to frequent this thread, has a ton of raw recipes. I think she was totally raw for awhile, but found that she couldn't maintain her breast milk on it and had some other negative effects from it. She wasn't getting enough protein.


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## chancemakes5

I believe I have been suffering from adrenal fatigue for nearly two years.
I will be doing another saliva test with in the next two weeks. I did one before, but there was a mistake made on my end and I have to retake it.
I have about a million tests, some easy, some frightening and some I never want to experience again and still I'm nowhere near an answer.
I have 5 children. I'm tired and in pain and I just want to be mom again.
I would love to hear more info from you ladies.
About 8 months ago I eliminated gluten and dairy and have felt much better, but still not myself by far.
I often have a trembling feeling inside, I have muscle weakness and aches, I used to suffer terrible anxiety and panic attacks, but they are for the most part gone. I react to foods now, and have had an elisa allergy panel done, also eliminating many foods.
I've lost so much weight and am stressed to the point with all of the foods I must avoid, that I feel like I'm starving.
I don't know what to eat.
I have trouble sleeping and wake several times in the night feeling sick, shaking, sweating sometimes, or just feeling generally unwell like I'm going to pass out, how can that be...I'm sleeping.
I spend much of my time on a sewing forum that I adore, but I need to find a place where I can share with and learn about others who are suffering like me.
I have no family except the one I created, and they're too little to talk to about mommy's health, lol. I don't want to put any more stress on mu husband than I already have.
He has been wonderful picking up many of my chores and responsibilities and being part time mom to the kids.
I have had several different Dx only to find out...nope not it.
I've had so much blood taken it's ridiculous, if I could charge them for it I'd be a rich woman, lol.
I'm done with My DOC, he just tries to throw more pills at me for nonexistant diseases.

My wellness center doc/chiro has been telling me for months that he thinks is adrenal fatigue, and now finally I am going to listen to him.

I'm an all natural whole foods mama and all natural supplements as well.
I don't drink caffeine and I don't use much sugar, unless it's a special occasion. My ELISA test said I'm intolerant to
eggs, dairy, gliadin, wheat, gluten, eggs, blueberries, and corn.
I don't eat much fruit, but do have an apple on occasion.
I eat grass fed beef and alot of beans, etc...
I was eating all rice made pastas and flours, but I'm riced out and avoiding it a while.
It's odd, but I've found I feel best if I eat alot of beans and salads and beef.
Thank you for letting me get so much of that off my chest.
Phew!!! I feel better just being here.


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## Metasequoia

Welcome Amy!







: Sorry I didn't PM you back right away, haven't been online much with the holidays. I'm glad that you decided to join MDC & our thread!

Your situation does sound a lot like adrenal fatigue - please, please post your saliva test results here, I'm really interested in seeing them.

Our timelines are about the same - I started feeling unwell in the beginning of May '06. Sometimes I think back to when I didn't have any muscle pain or lck of motivation & it makes me sad. When Dd2 was little, Dd1 & I would take her out all of the time to gardens, zoos, playgrounds, everywhere & I'd never tire out. Now we spend so much time doing nothing & the kids get bored & fight.

For Christmas I got The Mood Cure & there are some questions I have for my adrenal doc. I can't take 5 HTP while nursing, but the symptoms the book describes sound so much like my own. I wouldn't doubt it if most of us had a lack of serotonin. I know I don't get enough quality sleep - Ds nurses every 2 hours throughout the night still.

I'm also going through allergy testing - a different kind though at the sister facilty of Clymer Healing Center where my adrenal doc is - Woodlands Healing Research Center. They have cutting edge holistic treatments & their allergy lab ROCKS. The testing is a bunch of tiny injections that they check after 6 minutes. So far I've had a lot of environmental allergy testing & I didn't react to much of anything at all. We have only tested 5 foods so far & I reacted lightly to 3 of them - corn, gluten & baker's yeast - it wasn't severe so I just need to rotate them - only eating each of them once a week.

I hope you get some answers here! I look forward to hearing about your test results. I need to retest again soon as it's been almost a year since my last test.


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## chancemakes5

Metasequoia, Thank you for the welcome.
It has been such a frightening journey.In the beginning the anxiety and panic attacks were so bad I just prayed to die, it seems silly to me now, knowing how much I have to live for and I've never been a depressed or anxious person in the past.
Between the horrible bone pain and the anxiety, daily life was a struggle.
It does seem off to me that the anxiety is all gone now.
It's the trembling inside that makes me uneasy these days.
I've lost so much weight from the frustration of food intolerance/allergies and I really need to make some major decisions and changes.
I'm so thankful my kids and hubby have been so undertsanding and supportive, yet I know they wish things would get back to normal.
I stopped BF my youngest because I felt so weak and the anxiety was too much to handle.
I miss it so very much. He's nearly three now, and I stopped when he was 2.5.
I can't believe I've been sick nearly two years.

Do you think if the results come back and we tackle this thing...will I get my life back.

How are you feeling these days?
I did stay up late into the night reading this thread and I feel I have a better understanding and I get it about the bananas now.
I thought it was the rice protein shake making me feel worse and it was really the bananas I was mixing it with.

I will post as soon as I get the results of all the tests.I absolutely want to hear your $.02.

Today the numbness in my face, neck and legs in driving me batty, my natural chiro says it is nerves.









Thank you for listening, just knowing I'm not alone means the world to me.


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## chancemakes5

I forgot I wanted to ask about agave nectar.
I don't use any sugar and the only fruit I eat is apples on occasion, but I like agave for a sweetener, such as on a rice cake with organic sunbutter.
Is agave the same as sugar when it comes to feeding the little bad guys.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chancemakes5* 
I can't believe I've been sick nearly two years.

Me too! It stinks, huh? I feel robbed.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *chancemakes5*
Do you think if the results come back and we tackle this thing...will I get my life back.

I hope so! I've read some really inspiring stories of people healing from adrenal fatigue, but I hear it takes a loooong time. Especially as mother's to small children, there are just so many factors that we can't control - like the sleep issue, yk?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chancemakes5*
How are you feeling these days?

Eh. I've been better. My anxiety has been better, so I guess that's a good sign. My muscle pain hurts something fierce though, all.the.time.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chancemakes5*
Today the numbness in my face, neck and legs in driving me batty, my natural chiro says it is nerves.









I had a lot of weird nerve stuff going on in the beginning, when my cortisol was through the roof - I had burning skin sensations *everywhere*, like I had a severe sunburn all over my body, in retrospect, it was absolutely nerves gone wild due to excessive cortisol being dumped into my system because of severe stress. Anxiety & stress can wreak havoc on our bodies.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chancemakes5* 
I forgot I wanted to ask about agave nectar.
I don't use any sugar and the only fruit I eat is apples on occasion, but I like agave for a sweetener, such as on a rice cake with organic sunbutter.
Is agave the same as sugar when it comes to feeding the little bad guys.

I have agave nectar, I think it's on the list of okay sweeteners when you're trying to avoid sugar.
The "little bad guys," are you referring to the Lyme bacteria or yeasty beasties? I know we're chatting in a couple of different threads, it's a bit confusing!








If you're talking about the Lyme bacteria, you might want to spend a few days in the Traditional Foods forum - Dr. Ron Schmid, N.D. claims to have healed himself from chronic Lyme through nutrition. He follows a strict traditional foods diet. The Weston A. Price Foundation (WAPF) website would have some good info for you too.
I'm obviously a TF believer & I think it's a great healing tool for adrenal fatigue (or any dis-ease, really.) My naturopath who has been treating my adrenal fatigue is a member of WAPF & Price-Pottenger.
Extruded grains, like puffed rice (in a rice cake) might not be the most nutrient dense food that you could be putting into your body to help heal your adrenals.
My


----------



## chancemakes5

Yep, the little bad guys as whatever is making me sick. When I got my first dx they talked about stealth pathogens and a bunch of other things, then tried to blame it on mold, etc...I've had several different dr's tell me I have this and that. At one point they had me and my hubby convinced I had crest syndrome. I was scared to death. All the tests, Mri's, nerve tests, blood tests, it all came back negative.
I'm hoping htis time, since I'm going to a naturopath, I'll get some answers.

You know one thing that has never gone away either is a tight throat. Every morning when I wake up my throat hurts. For a while it was my throat and my ears were making me dizzy. Thats when they said I had menieres. Now the ENT says I have Gerd. The allergist says I don't.

I am so confused, lol.

I think I better just stay away from all other Dr's for a while and trust in my naturopath.

For a while everything I was eating was made of brown rice. Now I'm sensitive to it, since I ate it everyday.

I know that muscle body pain. Mine was gone once I was off gluten, dairy, eggs, dairy, and corn. I'm thankful. The pain made it difficult to get through the day.

SO about all the salt. Is it bad for the kidneys.

Before all of this happened, right before I gave birth to my son, I had kidney problems. I was spilling tons of protein and they said I had something that I can't recall.

MY doctor talked me into getting my tubes tied becasue if I got pregent again I could get even sicker. My baby had to be brought early.

I'm sorry I ramble on so, but I haven't had anyone to talk to about all of this for these nearly two years.









I am so excited to talk about it and learn.


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## reeseccup

subbing for later reading


----------



## chancemakes5

I would love to read some stories about some people who have gotten their good health back. Please do point me in that direction.

I read some info this evening that caused me to be even more frightened than I was, on Dr. Lam's site about adrenal fatigue. I need to stop researching for a while.
I think I'll buy the books that have been suggested.

What do you eat?







:

I pretty much alternate between greens, beans, fish, red meat(which I just read is a no no), sunbutter, seeds, and sweet potatoes(also a no no).
Now after reading this latest info I feel almost afraid to eat, KWIM?

What form should we be taking C in?
I think I have ester c?

The epa/dha I take with co-Q10 gives me headaches.
I'm not sure if I should even be taking all of these particular supplements now.
They were for EBV. Which I don't have.
I also take DGL, but perhaps should switch to regular licorice root.

My next appt. with the naturopath is too far away, lol.
I have so many questions and I just want to feel better.

I'll be doing my tests on the 3rd of Jan.


----------



## bigeyes

I can tell you something that may save some of you some trouble. Quitting smoking really stresses your adrenals, and it is not by accident that people with adrenal fatigue are smokers to begin with. Had I known to prop up my adrenals with hydrocortisone when I was quitting smoking it would have saved me from a huge relapse. I thought I was optimized on my thyroid meds when I was smoking, but in reality, the cortisol produced by smoking was allowing my thyroid supplements to get into my cells to go to work. When I quit smoking my cortisol levels dropped and my thyroid supplements no longer were working properly. I literally gained a belly overnight and had people asking me why I had not told them I was pregnant!

Someone in my thyroid group told me cigarette smoking produces cortisol, and sure enough, I googled and it's true. There is a very expensive out of print book called Safe Uses of Cortisol that talks about using cortisol/hydrocortisone to treat adrenals, and in my thyroid and adrenals groups they talk about it a lot. Had I been paying attention, I would not have gotten so sick for several months. Just a few weeks of hydrocortisone and I was feeling better.

Ironically for me, the things I did to be healthier backfired. Quitting smoking and getting rid of synthetic hormones screwed up my other hormone levels, and many of the so called healthy foods are actually bad for thyroid patients. Long term thyroid disease contributes to adrenal fatigue. When all those things come crashing down on you at once, you end up in a doctor's office being told you have fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue syndrome, or any number of things. But if you treat for adrenal fatigue, the symptoms of these mystery diseases will ease up. I still supposedly have fibromyalgia, but some days I don't feel like it, and other days I only think I feel tired because of my migraine medication. In the end, I start thinking it may all be adrenal fatigue with a little chemical sensitivity thrown in.









I think anyone who has ever felt like the only thing that kept them going was caffeine, cigarettes, or amphetamines, or some combination of those probably has adrenal fatigue. In my case a doc prescribed adderall at one time, which imo only made me worse in the long run.


----------



## chancemakes5

Well I get so sick of hearing people tell me it sounds like I have anxiety.







:
I have had it and I do know exactly what it feels like and what it's not, sheesh.
Now the nurses are Dx me before I even see the doc.

Well the reg physician/doc tells me today he thinks it's addisons.
He ordered some blood work-cortisol and an ACTH infusion/stimulation test on thursday.

I have to do the saliva test on Friday, do you think the test from thursday will cause anything to be off? I'm just doing it on the 3rd becasaue that is the day of my cycle for the hormone tests.









I haven't gotten any sleep for so so long. I just toss and turn and wish I could sleep.


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## bigeyes

yes! it isn't anxiety, it's more of an adrenaline rush. hate that.


----------



## neveryoumindthere

What day of our cycle are we supposed to test again? I thought it was day 5 for some reason.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chancemakes5*
What do you eat?







:

I pretty much alternate between greens, beans, fish, red meat(which I just read is a no no), sunbutter, seeds, and sweet potatoes(also a no no).
Now after reading this latest info I feel almost afraid to eat, KWIM?

What form should we be taking C in?
I think I have ester c?

The epa/dha I take with co-Q10 gives me headaches.
I'm not sure if I should even be taking all of these particular supplements now.
They were for EBV. Which I don't have.
I also take DGL, but perhaps should switch to regular licorice root.

Why is red meat out? My ND follows & recommends the WAPF diet - traditional, nutrient-dense foods which includes (if you're not allergic) grass fed beef, raw dairy, properly prepared grains, fermented veggies (raw) like sauerkraut, kimchi, pickles, miso, etc. I like to drink my dairy cultured, like kefir & fil mjolk.

Do you tale CLO (cod liver oil?) I take a lot of that. I also take vitamin c, mine is ester-c as well & magnesium. I also take licorice daily. It's really tasty prepared the way I posted somewhere in the beginning of this thread. I look forward to it.


----------



## chancemakes5

Yay!!! I just made my first green smoothie and it was delicious. It was stinky, well sort of not , like grass, but it was yummy.
Kale, spinach, romaine, water and one small apple.
I'm not sure if apples are ok, but they are the only fruit I eat.
I've been craving frozen cherries. I won't buy any though.
I'm so tired of eating the same few things over and over.
I have added more salmon.

I did read on drlam.com that red meat should not be eaten. It said it's Acid forming, Carcinogenic, Increase Hormone .

I don't know if it makes a difference that I eat only grass fed beef.
I also just read on a site(i think it was glutenfreeforum) that agave is not so great either, but I need something for the occasional treat.I need to find some facts on agave.

Perhaps I need to post a question about agave to one of the adrenal fatigue docs.

I'm having a really good day.
I started the teaspoon of salt in my water in the am and have really been watching my diet.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a diet appropriate for the adrenals.

I'm freezing today, but I'd rather be cold than have any of the other symptoms.







:


----------



## chancemakes5

Darn it, a good day yesterday and still no sleep last night.

And the green smoothies are wreaking havoc on my tummy.

It'll all work out.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!









My ACTH test is in the morning at 7AM, please wish me luck.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chancemakes5* 
Yay!!! I just made my first green smoothie and it was delicious. It was stinky, well sort of not , like grass, but it was yummy.
Kale, spinach, romaine, water and one small apple.
I'm not sure if apples are ok, but they are the only fruit I eat.
I've been craving frozen cherries. I won't buy any though.
I'm so tired of eating the same few things over and over.
I have added more salmon.

I did read on drlam.com that red meat should not be eaten. It said it's Acid forming, Carcinogenic, Increase Hormone .

I don't know if it makes a difference that I eat only grass fed beef.
I also just read on a site(i think it was glutenfreeforum) that agave is not so great either, but I need something for the occasional treat.I need to find some facts on agave.

Perhaps I need to post a question about agave to one of the adrenal fatigue docs.

I'm having a really good day.
I started the teaspoon of salt in my water in the am and have really been watching my diet.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a diet appropriate for the adrenals.

I'm freezing today, but I'd rather be cold than have any of the other symptoms.







:

Did you blanch the kale & spinach? They have a lot of oxalates which are really antinutrients that bind with calcium & therefore, don't allow your body to absorb calcium. Blanching, or cooking, neutralizes the oaxalates. Chard is another green that should be cooked. I think that's probably why your belly is off, oxalates are hard on the system.

As for dr. lam, I don't buy it. Maybe he's referring to hormone ridden, factory-farmed beef? Personally, I do much better when I have quality, grass-fed beef in my diet.


----------



## reeseccup

Amy, look on the thyroid thread, I posted some interesting links, may not be what you are looking for, but it may give you some ideas.

I'm in the idea that a healthy souce of red/any meat is healthy. It's more expensive if you must buy, but it's worth it for your health. I'm blessed with a dh and neighbor that hunt, as well as animals that we raise for food and other means, therefore we have a very healthy source of meat in our freezer. If I've skipped a day w/o meat protein my body lets me know I need it. I've actually craved red meat raw when I've gone 3 days w/o meat protein, and I don't like raw or even rare/med rare meat.

I'm considering an adjusted for my needs Paleo type diet, part of the adjustment will be adding raw goat milk to my diet when my goat freshens in a few weeks. I'd like to find some kefir grains so I can make that as well. I think I need to heal my gut as well, so my body can better absorb the nutrients I'll be consuming.

Sorry you had a set back kind of day, just remember that at the beginning of any healing you may seem to be doing the 1 foot foward 5 feet back until your body adjusts, the key is to try and not get discouraged and give up.

Health


----------



## chancemakes5

The test went well. The worst part was the poke of the IV and that was minor, lol.

However I had the stangest episode.

I was feeling better than I had in months and I had sat down at the table with the kids.
I was eating some sunflowere seeds and talking when suddenly it felt like my throat was closing up, my whole body felt like it was shutting down and I had the worst feeling I've ever had.
My legs started shaking and I thought I was truly going to die.
I started telling the kids to get to the car right away and I began to dial 911.
But then I thought about it. I stopped to think. I swallowed and my throat was still open and I was able to breathe. I sat down on the floor and just took a nice slow breath. I couldn't stop the trembling, but I calmed myself down. I'm pretty positive I just had the worst panic attack I've ever experienced. I was just horrible. Now I still feel a little on edge, a bit nervous from the attack I think.
Here's my question. Could it have been brought on by the ACTH test?
I haven't had anxiety for a very long time.
It just hit me out of nowhere, and having a fabulous day too. Isn't that odd.


----------



## chancemakes5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reeseccup* 
Amy, look on the thyroid thread, I posted some interesting links, may not be what you are looking for, but it may give you some ideas.

I'm in the idea that a healthy souce of red/any meat is healthy. It's more expensive if you must buy, but it's worth it for your health. I'm blessed with a dh and neighbor that hunt, as well as animals that we raise for food and other means, therefore we have a very healthy source of meat in our freezer. If I've skipped a day w/o meat protein my body lets me know I need it. I've actually craved red meat raw when I've gone 3 days w/o meat protein, and I don't like raw or even rare/med rare meat.

I'm considering an adjusted for my needs Paleo type diet, part of the adjustment will be adding raw goat milk to my diet when my goat freshens in a few weeks. I'd like to find some kefir grains so I can make that as well. I think I need to heal my gut as well, so my body can better absorb the nutrients I'll be consuming.

Sorry you had a set back kind of day, just remember that at the beginning of any healing you may seem to be doing the 1 foot foward 5 feet back until your body adjusts, the key is to try and not get discouraged and give up.

Health


Thank you for the info. I'll take a look.
I've been curious about the paleo diet


----------



## Brookesmom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chancemakes5* 
The test went well. The worst part was the poke of the IV and that was minor, lol.

However I had the stangest episode...

I'm not an expert or anything but I think you definitely could have had an anxiety attack/Cushing's-like high cortisol episode. My old roommate had a huge anxiety attack and her symptoms sounded just like yours with the feeling like her throat was going to close up and the shaking. Hopefully it is a one time thing from the stim test.

--Kelly


----------



## Pookietooth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chancemakes5* 
Yay!!! I just made my first green smoothie and it was delicious. It was stinky, well sort of not , like grass, but it was yummy.
Kale, spinach, romaine, water and one small apple.
I'm not sure if apples are ok, but they are the only fruit I eat.
I've been craving frozen cherries. I won't buy any though.
I'm so tired of eating the same few things over and over.
I have added more salmon.

I did read on drlam.com that red meat should not be eaten. It said it's Acid forming, Carcinogenic, Increase Hormone.

I don't know if it makes a difference that I eat only grass fed beef.
I also just read on a site(i think it was glutenfreeforum) that agave is not so great either, but I need something for the occasional treat.I need to find some facts on agave.

I'd like to hear about agave, too, I read it was better than most then read later it was toxic. I agree with the pp who pointed out the oxalic acid in kale and spinach -- also kale is a goitagen (sp?) meaning it's antagonistic to the thyroid (generates goiter), especially raw. True for all the cabbage/mustard family plants I think -- cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, etc. Also, raw apples contain oxalic acid too. I'm not sure about cherries though. Sour cherries might be ok.


----------



## blpatton

Hi All,
I am new as of about 5 minutes ago. I did start reading some of the postings from the beginning but with 3 small children and another on the way I don't have a lot of time to read everything. So if I ask the same questions that have already been answered I apologize.
Let me start by just telling a little of my story...I was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism about 11 years ago. Had radioactive Iodine. Was on Synthroid all the way up until about 5 months ago which has been a constant rollercoaster. A year and a half ago I couldn't hardly bend my fingers or hold anything up. I went to the doctor they tested me for carpaltunnel rheumatoid arthritis and put me through lots of therapy to try to heal my arms and elbows. Finally my doctor tried to diagnose me with fibromyalgia which I wouldn't give in to. I begin to research about 5 months ago about my thyroid again and found information about armour. Which I switched to in July of 07. Since that time I lost 13 pounds without trying then I got pregnant again. So my family doctor was willing to put me on the armour but he still followed the TSH and not all of the other stuff I asked him to. So one day I went on the Top Doc list and was willing at that point to drive the 3 hours to a doctor that was on the list before. To my surprise a doctor about 20 miles had been added. I have been going to her and she is great. However, she is just learning. She has decided to get out of "family health" and focus all of her practice on women with hormonal "issues" I tested in Novemeber for Adrenal Fatique at my request. My test came back as follows..
7:00-8:00 am 26 elevated 13-24 nM
11:00 - noon 6 normal 5-10 nM
4:00-5:00 9 elevated 3-8 nM
11:00-midnight 4 normal 1-4 nM

Cortisol Burden: 45 23-42

The doctor told me that with such an elevated in the morning and then such a quick drop that would explain a lot of my energy levels which I had talked about. Anyway, she said she would have me take phosphorylated serines but wanted to research if I could take it being pregnant. She couldn't find anything that said it is okay or that it is not. So she felt more comfortable with me waiting till the baby is born. Don't get me wrong that is fine I only have 4 months left, however, I have been reading the Adrenal Fatique my Wilson and am just really wanting to get a jump start on this. I emailed on his website and they replied I could take his stuff that he sells while being pregnant but then stated that phosphorylated serines is for high levels of cortisol. So now I am confused. My doctor said I had adrenal fatique but when she said that I got confused. Any help that any one can offer me would be fabulous.

I promise I will come back and read more tomorrow night but I really have to try to get to bed since it is 1240am central time. I am a little nervous to start reading this late because I won't be able to walk away from the computer! I am sure you all can understand that! I just want to find answers to my issues!

Thanks so much,

Blpatton


----------



## chancemakes5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
I'd like to hear about agave, too, I read it was better than most then read later it was toxic. I agree with the pp who pointed out the oxalic acid in kale and spinach -- also kale is a goitagen (sp?) meaning it's antagonistic to the thyroid (generates goiter), especially raw. True for all the cabbage/mustard family plants I think -- cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, etc. Also, raw apples contain oxalic acid too. I'm not sure about cherries though. Sour cherries might be ok.

I don't think I can stand to eliminate more foods. I'm running out, lol.
I sort of had waves of anxiety all night last night. Today I seem to be ok again.
The smoothies don't seem to be bothering me anymore. I lessened the amount of spinach and kale just in case.

What about flax? good or bad?

What are some good foods to add to the diet?


----------



## bigeyes

flax is bad, I was just reading about it in my thyroid group. A lot of the stuff you read about that people think is great is very bad for us.


----------



## reeseccup

*sigh*, yet one more thing to add to my list

It's ok, there is plenty still out there, just have to be willing to adjust tastebuds and learn how to cook differnt foods. I live outside of the box anyway, may as well look farther outside of the box for food than I already do.


----------



## chancemakes5

Oh no. I eat dry flax cereal.
Honestly I read such conflicting info on everything. One site says good, the other bad. Is it possible that we all react differently.
Without dairy, eggs, sugars, gluten, corn, and now flax, I feel like my diet is pretty limited.
And now eliminate maybe eliminate apples and my spinach and kale? I'm so lost. Is there a good site out there regarding natual foods that can be trusted?

I need a natural foods dietician to come live with me.

Anyone wanna throw some foods out there aside from beans, beef, and leafy greens....

I am so darn hungry. Still feeling fairly good with no trembling since eliminating the sugar. Hope you are all haanging in there.


----------



## reeseccup

OK, why would you eliminate eggs and spinach and apples?

I understand dairy, but if you can get ahold of raw, that would not be a bad option, and I'll be doing raw goat milk when my doe freshens.

You can get good healthy eggs if you look. NOW if you are allergic or sensitive, then I can understand and feel for you.

Spinach, just cook them up, I'm sure we can come up with recipes that are yummy that have cooked spinach...I have one, but I need to fix it for it to be suitable for a healthier option for me. Same with apples, cooked apples can be very yummy, sure more work, but still. HEY, would dehydrating them be considered cooked enough to break down the bad stuff?

I'm starting to learn how to cook low gluten, and it's not as bad as it seemed at first.

I have an option not many seem to have, a large back yard where I can raise my meat and produce. With that said, if you really have the desire, and a privet back yard, you can raise rabbits for meat, if you are willing and able.

OK dh needs puter. Just me thinking out loud, there are options we just have to think outside of the box and get creative.


----------



## bigeyes

I feel your pain. I try to avoid all the stuff that isn't good for my thyroid, then I read up on various things that are bad for migraines, and I may as well just starve. Fortunately I don't seem to have a gluten problem.

As it is I already make everything from scratch, pay extra for non-soy shortenings and oils, and just generally am a paranoid label reader. Going out is a nightmare. I either eat something I know is bad for me and pay the consequences, or I can pretend it makes a difference and ask if certain ingredients are in various dishes, though I know the answers will be either misinformed or outright lies. We rarely eat out, so I usually just try to order as safely as I can, but it's so frustrating.

There is _nothing_ I can drink that is safe. Water is going to be either flouridated and chlorine filled or bottled in some toxic container. Tea has flouride and gives me a migraine, not to mention it's made from the same water source. Sodas are out. Milk is out for many reasons.

Soy is in everything from breads to fats to dressings, so there is nothing I can order except possibly an unadulterated steak or other meat, or raw fruits or veggies. It's so rare to find a kitchen that uses butter, you just know they are using soy based margarines in potatoes, rice, and vegetable dishes, so none of them are safe.

Now, at home, I have multiple filters on my water, use only butter and non-soy oils like olive oil, and I make my own salad dressing, bread, burger buns, pancake mix, etc. It's a royal pain in the @$$, but I feel so much better now that I don't eat packaged foods.

I am not entirely sure I agree with the theory about tannins and migraines, because some of the foods on the list don't seem to bother me, while others give me killer migraines, so I think there may be another substance that when _combined with tannin_ causes some of mine.

http://www.widomaker.com/~jnavia/tannins/tanngood.htm

A lot of the same foods on that list are on the goitrogen list
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/a.../t-103679.html
http://www.thyrophoenix.com/bad_foods.htm
http://ezinearticles.com/?Foods-That...orse&id=672658

I found this one interesting, I had never heard anything about chocolate before.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...gy/message/604
this one says it helps
http://ezinearticles.com/?Raw-Foods-...roid&id=418151
?

that's really confusing! Somehow I think all of my various health problems are related, and for _whatever reason_ the changes in what I eat do make a difference, but isolating exactly what it is that is in the foods I eliminated that causes the problems is anybody's guess.









Does adrenal fatigue lead to thyroid problems and migraines + fibromyalgia, or is it migraines+thyroid problems+ toxins in our food and water= adrenal fatigue and fibromyalgia is the same thing?







:

ETA, there is also a theory about sulfites in food causing problems, so there is another avenue to explore. Since some of the same foods are on several lists it is really hard to sort out exactly what the trigger is.
http://members.aol.com/nosulfites/


----------



## chancemakes5

Exactly







:

Yes I have intolerance/allergy to those foods.

Thank you for the links. Wow.

I imagine I'll come to the point when I eat what I can without symptoms.

It baffles me why people like my dh great grandparents have eaten all these bad foods for generations yet they stay healthy and strong.

My mom for instance, smoker, drinker, party girl, eats what she likes...never sick. Never.

I only drink water... Sadly.
I miss chocolate ever so badly.
I never know what to eat.
It seems just veggies and meat.
Oh how I miss you bread,
but I must do as the dr. said
I wish I was a child again
eating what I liked back then
not a care, never a worry
but I grew up in a hurry
too much stress, and all hormonal
just wanna get back to what I call "normal"

hehe, sorry for the momentary dorkiness









I'm always feeling so stressed about food, this just popped into my head.









I need to call my naturopath doc for some food advice.

ETA Metasequoia, I wanted to thank you for the WAPF site link and ask about how you prepare you licorice. I read through the thread, but got more of a headache and watery eyes than any anything.
I do have a good cod liver oil, but not sure what form to get magnesium and have heard this will help me sleep if I start it.


----------



## bigeyes

I know what you mean. I think some of us are just unlucky with regards to heredity and how sensitive our system is to chemicals and our environment, yk?

I always feel better when I smoke, but obviously I'm not going to start again, there are just too many reasons not to. But I'm much less judgmental about people who self-medicate because I know exactly how it feels to do everything 'right' and still feel like s**t.

And the same people who give you grief about missing work or not feeling well enough to do things are the ones who tell you not to be so paranoid about food and chemicals.







So you're supposed to just act like you feel better, but god forbid you actually take any kind of action so you can.







: And if you try to educate anyone about it, you're one of the tinfoil hat people.









I try to help people who I think may be going through the same thing, but it gets really old being the local loony, yk?


----------



## chancemakes5

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I know what you mean. I think some of us are just unlucky with regards to heredity and how sensitive our system is to chemicals and our environment, yk?

I always feel better when I smoke, but obviously I'm not going to start again, there are just too many reasons not to. But I'm much less judgmental about people who self-medicate because I know exactly how it feels to do everything 'right' and still feel like s**t.

And the same people who give you grief about missing work or not feeling well enough to do things are the ones who tell you not to be so paranoid about food and chemicals.







So you're supposed to just act like you feel better, but god forbid you actually take any kind of action so you can.







: And if you try to educate anyone about it, you're one of the tinfoil hat people.









I try to help people who I think may be going through the same thing, but it gets really old being the local loony, yk?

This is so how I feel, so often. I know that when I get "the look" from people that I have lost. I know exactly what they are thinking and then they begin to treat me accordingly.

This is my life. Everyday I struggle to eat, breathe, live, sleep. I get terrible symptoms of this and that and it's horrible. It sucks that my kids have to see it and my DH bless his heart.

I can't just say OK, I'll be fine today and not be sick,







:

I do get frustrated trying to figure all of this out on my own, which is why I came here. I feel like I might post too much, but I need to, for my sanity.
I get to the point where I don't think I trust my own judgement.

A few weeks ago I thought ok, I'll test cheese again and see what heppens.
I was sick for exactly 7 days. My whole body hated me, it was awful. I was in bed with the worst pain and breathing issues.

So it's real and I hate it. I don't understand it. I want it to go away.
I also keep trying to blame it on everything. Oh it must be the onions or garlic, oh it must have been that samento, etc.....but the reactions are never the same or caused by the same thing. It's the illness, I tell myself now..not the foods and supplements...but yet it is.









I was just reading here
http://www.venturacenter4healing.com...oid_Canola_Oil

but again I read things that I read the opposite of somewhere else. What to do









I smoked (and drank too)from the time I was 16 until I was 29. Quit just 5years ago. I was more healthy then(it seemed).

So what do you eat?
I was eating a lot of sweet potatoes and bearitos refried beans. Now I eliminated the potatoes and the beans contain canola oil, so out they go too.








I'm sure you're all tired of my complaining about food. I'm just one of the sensitive. I think why my day went terribly wrong after the ACTH stimultaion.

What other issues/symptoms are you struggling with?


----------



## bigeyes

I don't think I'll ever stop being easily startled, and while the adrenaline surges are fewer they still happen. I find that I over-react a lot.

Chemicals bug the hell out of me, I cannot stand being around scented products, candles, oils, etc. It pisses me off to no end when I'm someplace and I have to relocate because of some UAV who bathed in cologne. I have a hard time being polite about it, because it just isn't fair that smokers are herded into designated areas, but anybody with a faulty sense of smell can assault me at any time in any public place with their toxic odors. It amazes me that there are people who think nothing of spraying perfume at their desks, or on a bus, or in any number of public settings, as if they were in their own home.









If only I had the ability to fart on demand.......

So, yeah, irritability is a big one with me.


----------



## Pookietooth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
flax is bad, I was just reading about it in my thyroid group. A lot of the stuff you read about that people think is great is very bad for us.

What's wrong with flax?

I hear you all on your complaining. Has anyone else ever tried EFT for food intolerances? I heard about it and thought it might be nice.

I think previous generations had access to food that had higher levels of nutrients in them (grass fed milk and beef, veggies that had been grown in less depleted soils, etc.). I smoked from the age of 19 or 20 until 28, and drank a lot in some periods, and I felt a lot better back then. But I'm a lot older than that now.


----------



## bigeyes

It's another goitrogen, so if you have adrenal fatigue based on thyroid problems, it's something you shouldn't take.

This page says it 'may alter hormone levels,' and since they don't specify which hormones, as much trouble as I have with mine, I'll pass.

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/flaxseed-000244.htm

This link says flaxseed oil can actually _cause_ thyroid problems.

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drugs/altme...&contentId=237


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blpatton* 
Hi All,
I am new as of about 5 minutes ago. I did start reading some of the postings from the beginning but with 3 small children and another on the way I don't have a lot of time to read everything. So if I ask the same questions that have already been answered I apologize.
Let me start by just telling a little of my story...I was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism about 11 years ago. Had radioactive Iodine. Was on Synthroid all the way up until about 5 months ago which has been a constant rollercoaster. A year and a half ago I couldn't hardly bend my fingers or hold anything up. I went to the doctor they tested me for carpaltunnel rheumatoid arthritis and put me through lots of therapy to try to heal my arms and elbows. Finally my doctor tried to diagnose me with fibromyalgia which I wouldn't give in to. I begin to research about 5 months ago about my thyroid again and found information about armour. Which I switched to in July of 07. Since that time I lost 13 pounds without trying then I got pregnant again. So my family doctor was willing to put me on the armour but he still followed the TSH and not all of the other stuff I asked him to. So one day I went on the Top Doc list and was willing at that point to drive the 3 hours to a doctor that was on the list before. To my surprise a doctor about 20 miles had been added. I have been going to her and she is great. However, she is just learning. She has decided to get out of "family health" and focus all of her practice on women with hormonal "issues" I tested in Novemeber for Adrenal Fatique at my request. My test came back as follows..
7:00-8:00 am 26 elevated 13-24 nM
11:00 - noon 6 normal 5-10 nM
4:00-5:00 9 elevated 3-8 nM
11:00-midnight 4 normal 1-4 nM

Cortisol Burden: 45 23-42

The doctor told me that with such an elevated in the morning and then such a quick drop that would explain a lot of my energy levels which I had talked about. *Anyway, she said she would have me take phosphorylated serines but wanted to research if I could take it being pregnant. She couldn't find anything that said it is okay or that it is not. So she felt more comfortable with me waiting till the baby is born. Don't get me wrong that is fine I only have 4 months left, however, I have been reading the Adrenal Fatique my Wilson and am just really wanting to get a jump start on this. I emailed on his website and they replied I could take his stuff that he sells while being pregnant but then stated that phosphorylated serines is for high levels of cortisol. So now I am confused. My doctor said I had adrenal fatique but when she said that I got confused.* Any help that any one can offer me would be fabulous.

I promise I will come back and read more tomorrow night but I really have to try to get to bed since it is 1240am central time. I am a little nervous to start reading this late because I won't be able to walk away from the computer! I am sure you all can understand that! I just want to find answers to my issues!

Thanks so much,

Blpatton

Yep, Seriphos, is that what she calls it?, is to calm you down. My adrenal doc gave it to me, but I am very low on cortisol - I'm only supposed to take it if I get an adrenaline rush (which he doesn't want me to have!)
Your cortisol IS high, so it makes sense that your doc gave it to you. I don't know about pregnancy, but I've been taking it since Ds was 11 months old. I don't feel the need to take it as often as I used to - maybe that's a sign that I'm healing!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chancemakes5* 
Exactly







:

Yes I have intolerance/allergy to those foods.

Thank you for the links. Wow.

I imagine I'll come to the point when I eat what I can without symptoms.

It baffles me why people like my dh great grandparents have eaten all these bad foods for generations yet they stay healthy and strong.

My mom for instance, smoker, drinker, party girl, eats what she likes...never sick. Never.

I only drink water... Sadly.
I miss chocolate ever so badly.
I never know what to eat.
It seems just veggies and meat.
Oh how I miss you bread,
but I must do as the dr. said
I wish I was a child again
eating what I liked back then
not a care, never a worry
but I grew up in a hurry
too much stress, and all hormonal
just wanna get back to what I call "normal"

hehe, sorry for the momentary dorkiness









I'm always feeling so stressed about food, this just popped into my head.









I need to call my naturopath doc for some food advice.

ETA Metasequoia, I wanted to thank you for the WAPF site link and ask about how you prepare you licorice. I read through the thread, but got more of a headache and watery eyes than any anything.
I do have a good cod liver oil, but not sure what form to get magnesium and have heard this will help me sleep if I start it.

Some people are born with strog adrenals while some are not - it trnds to be hereditary. Dd1 clearly has some weakened adrenals at age 7, but at least I have the knowledge to help her body heal.

Re: Licorice. I use Dr. Baschetti's powdered licorice (it's non-deglycyrrhinized). I mix 1 & 1/4 tsp into just about 1/8 cup of boiling water, then I stir until dissolved & fill to the 1 cup line with raw milk. I drink 1/4 cup of this mixture each morning. I'm bfing, so that's why my ND gave me such a small recommended dosage.

Dr. Baschetti says this:

What is your recommended dose of licorice?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dr. Baschetti*
Two grams of pure, non-deglycyrrhinized licorice must be completely dissolved in half a liter (500 ml) of cold whole milk. The beverage (milk plus licorice) must be drunk every morning as a unique breakfast. The beverage can be sugared with about 15-20 grams of sucrose or honey. If you have really CFS, which is an atypical adrenal insufficiency, you should considerably improve in a few hours. Nevertheless, if your improvement is poor, you can gradually and cautiously increase the dosage of licorice up to 5 grams in the usual half a liter of milk.


----------



## blpatton

*


Metasequoia;10181844 said:



Yep, Seriphos, is that what she calls it?, is to calm you down. My adrenal doc gave it to me, but I am very low on cortisol - I'm only supposed to take it if I get an adrenaline rush (which he doesn't want me to have!)
Your cortisol IS high, so it makes sense that your doc gave it to you. I don't know about pregnancy, but I've been taking it since Ds was 11 months old. I don't feel the need to take it as often as I used to - maybe that's a sign that I'm healing!!

Click to expand...

*


Metasequoia;10181844 said:


> So once you brought your adrenals down after taking the Seriphos, then what happened? Did they put you on something else or did your body just heal itself? I am just so confused on how this all works. Not trying to be an idiot just trying to learn...Thanks so much for responding to me. You seem very knowledgable and you have been leading this tread for a long time!!! Thank you so much! You are making a difference!
> 
> Blpatton


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blpatton* 
So once you brought your adrenals down after taking the Seriphos, then what happened? Did they put you on something else or did your body just heal itself? I am just so confused on how this all works. Not trying to be an idiot just trying to learn...Thanks so much for responding to me. You seem very knowledgable and you have been leading this tread for a long time!!! Thank you so much! You are making a difference!

Blpatton

No, it _is_ confusing. When I started treatment, last February, my cortisol was already gone (or almost gone.) I'll try to explain this as best I can.
When we experience stress, either the fight-or-flight kind from traffic jams or the physical kind from getting the flu, our adrenals take a hit.
If it's the mental/emotional kind of stress, our bodies pump out adrenaline, which causes the fight-or-flight repsonse.
When I started treatment, my cortisol was very depleted, but I would still have anxiety attacks & still had/have stress in my life. When I had these experiences, my body would start pumping adrenaline & any progress/healing that had gone on with my adrenals was nixed.
So when I would feel anxious or stressed, I would take Seriphos to calm me down so that my body wouldn't start pumping adrenaline into my system so that my adrenals weren't further taxed.

Does this make sense?

It seems, in your case, that you are still in the first stages, which is when your cortisol is very high from chronic stress, so your ND wants to try to stop your body from producing so much adrenaline by reducing your stress so that you don't progress into stage 2.


----------



## blpatton

I think it makes sense...It is very confusing though. So if I get my adrenal glands calmed down I shouldn't need anything to rebuild them such as cortisol. I guess I am stuck in the frame of mind of my thyroid. I was hyperactive and then had radioactive treatment which made me hypo. So then I took synthroid or now armour to keep it going. So I am just thinking in that frame of mind. I guess. Thank you so much for all of your information. I do have to go back and read everything because I would like to put myself on the "safe" diet and reading Wilson's book all food seems so limited. I am not good at checking labels. I am more they type of person tell me what is good and I will make a menu.

Again, thanks so much for your explanation!

Blpatton


----------



## Metasequoia

I just found out that I have big time food allergies - I'll post back later with the details. We've only tested 20 foods so far & I reacted to 11 of them, 3 of them severely enough that they need to be completely removed.









ANyone else here have multiple, multiple food sensitivities? I can't wait to ask my ND which came first, the chicken or the egg.


----------



## thefragile7393

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I just found out that I have big time food allergies - I'll post back later with the details. We've only tested 20 foods so far & I reacted to 11 of them, 3 of them severely enough that they need to be completely removed.









ANyone else here have multiple, multiple food sensitivities? I can't wait to ask my ND which came first, the chicken or the egg.

I have multiple but not multiple multiple


----------



## Pookietooth

I have multiple too. I don't know which came first, either. How are you doing the testing? Blood test? Which kind?

There is a school of thought that goes that PCOS is caused by food intolerances. I have PCOS, by the way, and sometimes I wonder if that theory is right. Who knows.


----------



## neveryoumindthere

Sorry am I reading this right? Do some of you think that perhaps you started having food allergies *after* adrenal fatigue?
If that's true, that would make sense for me. I feel like there is *something* I'm eating that drags me down and have been "planning" an elimination diet for a couple months and keep putting it off.

OT, but can all these treatments be used while pregnant?


----------



## reeseccup

You can eliminate foods and improve you diet while pregnant. You can also do yoga (prego version) while pregnant as well.

I'd focus on the worse culprets and adjust as you need from there.

WOW 11 foods so far that you are allergic to and still more to test for? UGH.

At this point I'm avoiding certain food groups, not as hard as I thought it would have been (except my gluten carbs...man I miss bread), and I'm starting to feel better. I'm also taking some suppliments, but unsure how they would be for someone pregnant, I've not researched that aspect since it doesn't pertain to me, and I have a hard enough time just researching for me right now.

Health,
Reese


----------



## jlutgendorf

Subbing!

Can adrenal issues be influenced by hormonal birth control?

I was on the patch for about three months and it made me CRAZY. Since coming off I haven't been able to get back the sex drive, energy, interest, etc.

Also, how much stock do you all put in the blood pressure test and in home testing cuffs? We have a wrist one that's at least 5 years old. What about the pupil test (mine do the weird shrink and dilate thing in the dark, my partners' don't)?

It gave me these readings this morning

Waking (not risen) 97/53
Risen 90/67

Those seem really low to me. I'm normally around 120/60 when I go to the drs.

Thanks!

~Julia


----------



## Metasequoia

The type of testing I'm doing is called: Intradermal Progressive Food Titration or IDPFT.

On a level 2+, I reacted to: gluten, corn, baker's yeast, egg, milk, oat, sugar (cane) & lemon. (Rotate every 4 days.)

On a level 3d I reacted to: pork. (Remove.)

On a level 3D (slightly more severe than 3d) I reacted to: tomato & kidney bean. (Remove.)

The foods I am okay with are: apple, beef, chicken, rice, wheat (?), soy (







), lentils & string beans.

Next Friday, we're testing these foods: almond, banana, broccoli, carrot, cauliflower, chocolate, coffee, garlic, green peas, onion, orange, potato, romaine, tuna & whey.

I want to add these to the list: turkey, black beans, avocadoes (though I think they don't have that one), pecans, walnuts, brazil nuts, cashews, sesame, garbanzo beans, butternut squash, acorn squash, cucumber, celery, peppers, mango, pineapple, pear, spearmint, peppermint, quinoa, millet, spelt, amaranth, buckwheat, chamomile, carob, raspberries, strawberries, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, mustard, olives, cabbage, celery root, rutabaga, sweet potatoes, limes, grapefruit & grapes.

I've decided to cut out ALL of the common offenders (plus pork, tomatoes & kidney beans): dairy, gluten, corn, soy (don't eat it anyway), sugar (I'm sugar free anyway), yeast, peanut butter & tree nuts *completely* for a month & then, one at a time, I will reintroduce the ones I'm allowed to rotate (except the gluten, I think I'm done with that one for good.) I'll rotate those foods weekly. I reeeeally miss the dairy, more than anything, which makes me think that that's a real problem food for me.









I think my milk supply is dropping.







My boobs are suddenly like flat pancakes. My supply is well establishes, I've been nursing continuously for 5 years.

I need more fat, protein & carbs. I'm so hungry but I can't eat anything!

I need to go see my adrenal doc to see what he says about this. I don't know what's more stressful for my body, eating something I am reacting to or not eating enough.
I also can't afford to eat like this, it's expensive! Eggs were so cheap but so packed full of nutrition.

I'm going to try mixing my licorice with goat's milk I think, the idea of drinking it with rice milk sounds disgusting.

I think I'll go post this in the allergy forum.


----------



## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I want to add these to the list: turkey, black beans, avocadoes (though I think they don't have that one), pecans, walnuts, brazil nuts, cashews, sesame, garbanzo beans, butternut squash, acorn squash, cucumber, celery, peppers, mango, pineapple, pear, spearmint, peppermint, quinoa, millet, spelt, amaranth, buckwheat, chamomile, carob, raspberries, strawberries, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, mustard, olives, cabbage, celery root, rutabaga, sweet potatoes, limes, grapefruit & grapes.

I need more fat, protein & carbs. I'm so hungry but I can't eat anything!

I didn't see coconut on your list. If you get tested for that and are clear that could be a great source of fat, yummy fat at that! I've replaced a lot of dairy with coconut milk. I'm just trying to not overdo it since most of the sensitivites I've developed seem connected to excessive or frequent consumption (like 1/4 jar of peanut butter in one sitting). Coconut flour is also high in protein, although you'd be limited in it's use without eggs. I'm going to try adding a little to my buckwheat and to ds's oatmeal tomorrow and see how it turns out.


----------



## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jlutgendorf* 
Subbing!

Can adrenal issues be influenced by hormonal birth control?

I was on the patch for about three months and it made me CRAZY. Since coming off I haven't been able to get back the sex drive, energy, interest, etc.

Well, it screws with your hormones so I'd guess that it messes with the adrenals as well, or at least stresses them. I know that loss of sex drive is a common side affect from hormonal b.c. Glad I found that out after taking it for 5 years. I didn't see that in the package insert


----------



## chancemakes5

Well I'm still waiting for my results. The Addisons test came back negative.
And this was through the regular docor who I'm very frustrated with, waiting on the saliva test results from the naturopath.

My tight throat has gotten so bad that I have been having feelings of anxiety wash over me. I feel that my throat will close, yet it doesn't, and it drives me crazy. I'm getting no sleep at all and I don't have an idea what to do about it.
I can deal with all the other symptoms, but the throat thing really gets to me emotionally as well.

No pain, just tightness and sore in the mornings.
At first they said maybe gerd, then the allergist said no, maybe voacl cord dysfunction. I don't know where to go from here.

Metasequoia,I am curious about your diet/food testing.

I had the ELISA food allergy panel( repeating myself probably) and have eliminated all the foods I reacted to. Should I be rotating them instead?
I feel like it's beans and meat more than anything for me.

I know gluten and dairy is out since it gives me horrible pain, but I didn't realize I could rotate the rest of the things that had low reactions.
I have had no more trembling or feeling like passing out since I gave up the bananas and chocolate.

Any advice on this. How long does it take for saliva results?

My favorite food was refried beans , but I read that they have canola oil and you ladies said that's a no no so I'm lost.
I did eat a handful of kettle chips the other day and got very sick very quickly.

Hope you are all having a good weekend and feeling well.


----------



## reeseccup

Amy, the key is to make things from scratch. If you don't know how to cook, now is a very good time to learn.

If legumes don't bother you, make your own refried beans, they are super easy and much tastier. Avoid processed foods, those are the worse. Focus on making it yourself.

If you aren't up to soaking your beans over night, get organic canned beans.

Dice up and carmalize onions in coconut oil, add beans (I prefer black), heat through. Add seasons (I use garlic powder, cummin, nutritional yeast, celtic seasalt, black pepper, and dried cilantro crushed to a powder), mush with wand blender or potato masher.

I've given up legumes for now, will reintroduce them later once I'm on the mend.

Reese


----------



## chancemakes5

Yep, I do make everything from scratch.
However when we are in the city shopping for instance there is nothing for me but salad and it is usually awful, lol.

I had to eliminate coconut oil since my sons allergist said it is on the nut list now and ds is anaphylactic.
So it's olive oil in everything.

I thik I have beans soaking on my counter at leat every other night, hehe.
Today I've got a bunch in the crockpot to freeze. Chili.

I just wish there were moreoptions out there.

And the throat thing is making me batty and affecting my sleep. * months now of tight throat feeling.








Thanks for the advice.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *reeseccup* 
Amy, the key is to make things from scratch. If you don't know how to cook, now is a very good time to learn.

If legumes don't bother you, make your own refried beans, they are super easy and much tastier. Avoid processed foods, those are the worse. Focus on making it yourself.

If you aren't up to soaking your beans over night, get organic canned beans.

Dice up and carmalize onions in coconut oil, add beans (I prefer black), heat through. Add seasons (I use garlic powder, cummin, nutritional yeast, celtic seasalt, black pepper, and dried cilantro crushed to a powder), mush with wand blender or potato masher.

I've given up legumes for now, will reintroduce them later once I'm on the mend.

Reese


----------



## Pookietooth

it is hard. I am interested in the allergy testing, although at this point I'm not really wanting to know on some level. I also don't think I could afford it. Sigh.


----------



## meandk0610

i finally got my saliva results yesterday and saw a new (primary care) doctor today. my results are:

estradiol (E2) 1.5 pg/ml 1.3-3.3 luteal
progesterone 125 pg/ml 75-270 luteal
pg/e2 ratio 83 optimal: 100-500
DHEAS 5.0 ng/ml 2-23 (age dependent)
cotisol morning 5.2 ng/ml 3.7-9.5
cortisol noon 0.8 ng/ml 1.2-3.9
cortisol evening 0.8 ng/ml 0.6-1.9
cortisol night 0.1 ng/ml 0.4-1.0

this dr said the cortisol was fine and that only thing that was low was the pg/e2 ratio. if i hadn't handed her the paper i would have wondered if she was reading the same thing as me. she did not ask if i was nursing (2yo dd was with me) and did not ask when my last period was. it kind of seemed like she shut down after hearing that i had previously been diagnosed with fibromyalgia. she even suggested that seratonin could be involved and it might help for me to see a therapist to learn some coping skills! i'm very disappointed. however, she did give the names and phone numbers for an endo and an allergist so maybe she was a little helpful.

oh, yeah. when the nurse brought my lab order in it didn't have free t3, free t4 or reverse t3, even though i had specifically asked for them. i had to send her back and get a new one. now that i'm home i notice that it doesn't have the ferritin test on it.









any interpretations from more experienced folks? i'll admit i've only read a few pages of this thread because it's huge and i'm just starting out.









thanks!

sarah


----------



## bigeyes

I'm cross posting this in the thyroid thread as well. I don't recall which group of mine sent this information, but I did some research because I was intrigued, and of course, I'm obsessive.









Yk how flouride and chlorine can suppress thyroid function? Guess what? Lots of prescription meds are processed with those 2 things, which means that when you take your prescriptions, _just like when you drink flourinated or chlorinated water,_ you are ingesting something that can counteract the medicine you take to help your thyroid disorder! Or, you are taking something that can suppress thyroid function and lead to hypo and adrenal fatigue.
























Does anyone else ever feel like you just might explode?

this site isn't updated, so not all of the links still work, but there is a lot of information still available:
http://bruha.com/pfpc/index.html

more links:
http://www.thenhf.com/fluoridation_71.htm
http://www.just-think-it.com/f-drugs.htm
http://www.slweb.org/ftrcfluorinatedpharm.html

I especially like the 'may or may not' statement made in this link. If you can't tell me whether or not chlorine is left in the final product, maybe _you_ aren't qualified to tell me a pharmaceutical drug is safe to use.
http://www.unece.org/indust/chem3.htm

http://www.n-wellness.com/stories.php?id=84

I just like these guys cuz they rant like I do.








http://www.newstarget.com/008511.html
http://sonic.net/~doretk/Issues/99-0.../thegreat.html

Better living through chemistry? I think _not._


----------



## Brookesmom

Sarah,

All your cortisol results are a bit on the low side I think. You might want to post on the realthyroidhelp dot com forums for more advice- There are people with adrenal and thyroid experience on there who could give a second opinion.

-Kelly

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahlyao* 
i finally got my saliva results yesterday and saw a new (primary care) doctor today. my results are:

estradiol (E2) 1.5 pg/ml 1.3-3.3 luteal
progesterone 125 pg/ml 75-270 luteal
pg/e2 ratio 83 optimal: 100-500
DHEAS 5.0 ng/ml 2-23 (age dependent)
cotisol morning 5.2 ng/ml 3.7-9.5
cortisol noon 0.8 ng/ml 1.2-3.9
cortisol evening 0.8 ng/ml 0.6-1.9
cortisol night 0.1 ng/ml 0.4-1.0

this dr said the cortisol was fine and that only thing that was low was the pg/e2 ratio. if i hadn't handed her the paper i would have wondered if she was reading the same thing as me. she did not ask if i was nursing (2yo dd was with me) and did not ask when my last period was. it kind of seemed like she shut down after hearing that i had previously been diagnosed with fibromyalgia. she even suggested that seratonin could be involved and it might help for me to see a therapist to learn some coping skills! i'm very disappointed. however, she did give the names and phone numbers for an endo and an allergist so maybe she was a little helpful.

oh, yeah. when the nurse brought my lab order in it didn't have free t3, free t4 or reverse t3, even though i had specifically asked for them. i had to send her back and get a new one. now that i'm home i notice that it doesn't have the ferritin test on it.









any interpretations from more experienced folks? i'll admit i've only read a few pages of this thread because it's huge and i'm just starting out.









thanks!

sarah


----------



## nurturedbirth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jlutgendorf* 
Subbing!

Can adrenal issues be influenced by hormonal birth control?

I was on the patch for about three months and it made me CRAZY. Since coming off I haven't been able to get back the sex drive, energy, interest, etc.

~Julia

Yes, yes, yes! BCPs are what tanked my adrenals, initially causing cortisol over-production, I believe, and as a result they became fatigued and production became low. I had taken the same BCP for 4 years with the only side effect being the occasional night sweat, then switched to a triphasic that messed me up big time. I went off BCPs in Jan 2003 and here I still am, trying to repair the damage.

You all probably don't remember me, I initially posted somewhere back before page 10 I think. At last post I had received my saliva test results and was waiting to see the course of action my naturopath would recommend.

Here were my results:
AM 18 Normal (range 12-24)
Noon <1 Depressed (range 5-10)
PM <1 Depressed (range 3-8)
Night <1 Depressed (range 1-4)

I started on licorice extract to treat and did one 6-week treatment course back in late summer, with great results. Energy and exercise tolerance in particular were much improved. I started to notice the recurrence of some symptoms at the end of the year and am now doing another 6-week course. I was told to expect treatment may need to go on over a fairly extended period of time and so far that has been my experience, but I am very happy with the results so far. I haven't been retested yet so I don't know what kind of empirical results I'm getting, but based on symptoms things are definitely improved.


----------



## bigeyes

Synthetic hormones are the devil.

My generation was passed birth control pills like popcorn. If we had cramps or irregular periods, or if a doc even _thought_ we had a boyfriend...._here ya go!_ No tests to see if your hormones were at proper levels. Hell, I don't even know if they have a clue what levels they should be, yk?

In my mid twenties I was taken off birth control because I was _sterile,_ and while I didn't recognize it at the time, that is when my battle with adrenal fatigue began. A few years later, because I didn't know any better, I went back on the pill for the convenience of the shorter periods and only having migraines _one week_ out of the month instead of all 4. When I got too old to take the pill (and _finally_ knew better) adrenal fatigue set in again, but I was counteracting the effects with caffeine and nicotine and didn't realize it.

It's so ironic that when I decided to get healthy, it put me flat on my back. The cigarettes were producing cortisol, which was helping my adrenals, so when I quit smoking, I crashed so hard it wasn't funny. My progesterone levels were all messed up, which also screws up your cortisol.
I became estrogen dominant, which is *bad bad bad* for someone who gets migraines from estrogen. (I learned this from a clueless doc who thought I was menopausal at 35 and gave me synthetic estrogen














Too much estrogen=too little progesterone=too little cortisol=more adrenal fatigue.

I spent so much of my life running on adrenaline because I had no cortisol, and the only answers I could get from doctors were _PMS_ or _depression.
Um, no._ How can it be PMS or depression if I'm _not_ unhappy, and every day I can feel a _physiological reaction_ to the least amount of stress that I _cannot control with a logical thought?_ It isn't dictated by my monthly cycle or by a psychological disorder. _It's a physiological problem that creates what appears to be a mental problem._ A friend summed it up so perfectly when she said _You *know* you're being crazy but you just can't stop yourself._ It starts with a racing heart and pulse, shaking, dry mouth. It is literally _fight or flight_. You know in your head there is no reason for your body to be reacting in this way, but because your heart is pounding and you are shaking and feeling like you need to flee, it is impossible to appear rational to anyone no matter how hard you try. It is _physically impossible._

So frustrating. I read and read, and from what I understand the combination of my chaotic household growing up, the synthetic hormones, and the toxins that surround us completely trashed my adrenals and my thyroid. I think the thyroid may have been more avoidable, but my adrenals were probably doomed anyway, yk?

I've seen doctors for over 30 years for my headaches, and it was just in the past couple of months that someone taught me to use progesterone cream to help my estrogen dominance and head off the menstrual migraines. Of course, that someone was _not_ a doctor.







Likewise, it was not doctors who taught me to use hydrocortisone to heal my adrenals so my thyroid meds could work instead of floating around doing nothing while I stayed hypo.

It's a constant uphill struggle. I can't live normally. I can't stay up late talking if a friend flies in to visit. I can't get up early to go somewhere. I can't work out for 3 hours a day like I used to, or help a friend move. People _don't_ understand, even if they say they do. With everything I do, and with the great strides I've made, it still isn't enough. As nasty and expensive as smoking is, it would be so much easier to start again, because all I'd have to do then is step outside a few times a day, take a few puffs, and _I could live normally. All the expense, all the hassles and ostracism, even dying sooner, *would almost be worth it to live normally while my kids are young.

*_


----------



## 17754

Hi!

I've been reading up.

Anyone used adaptogenic herbs like ginseng, ashwaganda, or shavtavari? Rhoidolia falls in that category too.

I was at one point on a supplement from neuroscience wiht rhodiola in it, it really helped. I had done the neuroscience urine testing, and got supplements for while through them (adrecor, travacor, etc...) They helped but are pricey, and I think I was in a crisis at the time and I stopped taking them because the acute stress stopped and I felt generally better.

I was waiting ofr my energy to recoup after the acute stress and it just has not come back, I think I am at 70% and want to boost myself back up to feeling vibrant again.

Or has anyonme used nettles? Susan Weed says its great for healing adrenals, and is so specific to kidneys shes folks get of dialysis in three mootnhs by drinking it twice a day. For those that pee alot or have kidney pain it might help. Its cheap too.

My thought is these herbs may correct the underlying problem instead of just subbing out the hormones.

I am leary of taking adrenal extracts, stuff like mad cow and such freaks me out, it just seems weird to me to take cow glands to heal me. I think I am more an herb kinda girl!

I got some nettles and ashwagnada from avena botanicals and was going to use that in additional to accupuncture as part of my healing plan.

Anyone else used any of the adpogenic herbs?

Thanks, Heidi


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Human_Being* 
Hi!

I've been reading up.

Anyone used adaptogenic herbs like ginseng, ashwaganda, or shavtavari? Rhoidolia falls in that category too.

I was at one point on a supplement from neuroscience wiht rhodiola in it, it really helped. I had done the neuroscience urine testing, and got supplements for while through them (adrecor, travacor, etc...) They helped but are pricey, and I think I was in a crisis at the time and I stopped taking them because the acute stress stopped and I felt generally better.

My thought is these herbs may correct the underlying problem instead of just subbing out the hormones.

I am leary of taking adrenal extracts, stuff like mad cow and such freaks me out, it just seems weird to me to take cow glands to heal me. I think I am more an herb kinda girl!

I got some nettles and ashwagnada from avena botanicals and was going to use that in additional to accupuncture as part of my healing plan.

Anyone else used any of the adpogenic herbs?

Ashgawanda is helpful, but it's a matter of how much adrenal support you need, and if you are in bad enough shape it may not be enough. Try it and see how you do.

I've used ashgawanda in the past and also adrenal extracts. A lot of people who aren't too far gone have good results with both, but I found that the adrenal extracts just revved up my adrenaline, which was exactly what I _didn't_ need. A lot of people with adrenal fatigue are already running on adrenaline and need cortisol, which is why we take hydrocortisone, and that is why cigarette smoking actually helps, because smoking a cigarette produces cortisol. Note, I am not saying smoking is good, I'm saying that is why so many people who quit smoking suddenly discover they are hypo and/or have adrenal fatigue. They've been masking their symptoms and self-treating without realizing it. Google cigarette smoking and cortisol, you'll find it. (Just in case you think I made this up.







)

When people who have adrenal fatigue quit smoking, they crash really hard because of all the cortisol they suddenly are not getting. Then they have adrenaline rushes and become irritable and exhausted and everyone thinks it's just withdrawal from nicotine.

I often say I wish I had known this stuff beforehand, and someone pointed out to me that it sounds victim-like. I don't mean for it to, if anything, I want to save others from going through 20 years of adrenal fatigue wondering what the hell is wrong while doctors misdiagnose and leave you hanging.

I've had adrenal fatigue for at least 20 years, and hypo for over 10. I was diagnosed with hypo maybe 6 years ago and adrenal fatigue 3 years ago. That is a long time to be sick and misdiagnosed or undiagnosed, I think.

I was a victim of the medical community and the pharmaceutical industry, along with big agriculture and the FDA. *But the way I take my power back is to expose the things they do that keep women sick.* _You don't have to be sick for 10 years, or 20 years, before you figure out what is wrong.

_ Make no mistake. I am not a victim. _I am a survivor._ I rant, and I rage at the people who grow rich keeping us sick, sure. I'd be an idiot if I wasn't angry. But I make it a point to share every single piece of information I've learned with everyone I can. It's important. Some people think I'm crazy, some think I go overboard, but at least I'm able to get out of bed every day, which is something I haven't been able to do a few times in my life. And if I help even a handful of other women to be _survivors_ too, cool. Why are we allowed to be mamma tigers if someone harms our children, but if someone harms us and we get angry, we're classified as victims? *Fight back like a tiger and be a survivor.*


----------



## flutemandolin

Bigeyes- you mentioned that smoking raises cortisol. Does alcohol have an effect on cortisol as well? It seems I read somewhere once that it does.

Subbing- I'm also on the thyroid thread, there is so much to learn!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flutemandolin* 
Bigeyes- you mentioned that smoking raises cortisol. Does alcohol have an effect on cortisol as well? It seems I read somewhere once that it does.

Subbing- I'm also on the thyroid thread, there is so much to learn!

Yup. It does. People self medicate. I always thought that term was so odd, but on some level you really do _know_ that something makes you feel better even when you also know it's bad for you. It's crazy.
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/healt...acer030915.htm
http://www.scienceblog.com/community...C/2003252.html
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17634861
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...35405ecfe7c792
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/con...all~order=page

There are women in my adrenals group who have in the past used amphetamines to try to keep up with a normal lifestyle, sedatives, pot and alcohol to try to sleep, various psychiatric drugs to relieve 'stress.' It didn't work because their bodies were out of whack and the prevailing medical wisdom tends to treat the mind. Pot is fleeting, alcohol leaves the hangover. Psychiatric drugs are not going after the real problem, yk? Amphetamines make adrenal fatigue worse, stressing out your adrenals even more. Google is your friend.









I think younger women find it funny when I say the internet saved my life, but you have to remember my generation grew up without it. My generation was taught to trust doctors, to go look things up at the library, and to read the newspaper.







I was in my late 30s when I found my thyroid group and learned that my endo _didn't_ really know everything there was to know about thyroid disorders. I was in my 40s before I even had a rudimentary understanding of adrenal fatigue. That's a long time to have unexplained health problems. That's a long time to blindly trust people _who_ _don't deserve it.
_








This is near and dear to my heart. People are harmed by bad medicine. _People die._ The final stage of adrenal fatigue is _death._ This isn't some minor health problem that you can go in for a quick round of pills and you're done. People lose jobs, lose houses, lose relationships, and lose their lives, simply because doctors don't understand this illness, don't listen, and don't care. When you have a system that is set up to fail you, all you have are other more experienced patients as your guides. I won't go to the doctor without checking things out online first.


----------



## flutemandolin

Thanks bigeyes! I asked because I suspected I was "self medicating" with alcohol. Even though I don't like the feeling of getting drunk, and I don't like the taste of most alcohol, I tend to respond to stress by drinking (at home, in the evening, rarely so much that I'm hung over). I'm trying to taper off alcohol, but maybe now I know why it's so difficult.









I agree, the Internet has been a huge help to me in researching my symptoms when doctors brush them off. Now I strongly suspect I'm mild hypothyroid with adrenal fatigue (lots of stress in life the last eight years, but it's getting better







), possibly with chronic Lyme. I think the only reason I'm not much worse than I am is that I've been eating mostly whole foods, organic when possible, and hardly any sugar or white flour or vegetable oils. What made me suspect something was wrong was when I gained about thirty pounds AFTER making these dietary changes!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flutemandolin* 
Thanks bigeyes! I asked because I suspected I was "self medicating" with alcohol. Even though I don't like the feeling of getting drunk, and I don't like the taste of most alcohol, I tend to respond to stress by drinking (at home, in the evening, rarely so much that I'm hung over). I'm trying to taper off alcohol, but maybe now I know why it's so difficult.









I agree, the Internet has been a huge help to me in researching my symptoms when doctors brush them off. Now I strongly suspect I'm mild hypothyroid with adrenal fatigue (lots of stress in life the last eight years, but it's getting better







), possibly with chronic Lyme. I think the only reason I'm not much worse than I am is that I've been eating mostly whole foods, organic when possible, and hardly any sugar or white flour or vegetable oils. What made me suspect something was wrong was when I gained about thirty pounds AFTER making these dietary changes!









You probably are hypo. I went from super metabolism to super weight gain overnight.

The bad thing about alcohol is, if you use it to get to sleep, it has a nasty habit of waking you up in the middle of the night. That's what makes it bad for AF because we need our sleep to recharge.

AS to the organics, be sure you aren't overloading on soy. Soy suppresses the thyroid, so if you are hypo you are making yourself worse. Google 'soy aliases' to see how many places it's hiding.


----------



## bente

This is interesting - I completed some tests about 6 months ago when I went to a doctor with a natural approach for my allergies.
I had very low DHEA, I am not sure how they measure that, but here in Norway my DHEA was 1.2 and the range is from 1.7-15.0
She gave me supplements to take:
DHEA
Vitamin c-1000
Zink 50 mg
mulitivitamin
Glutamine powder

What caught my attention was that I don't feel tired, but I do have that "terror anxiety impending doom for no reason" feeling!
I am wondering if I have adrenal fatigue??


----------



## bigeyes

Panic attacks are common as well. To me, adrenaline rushes feel very much like a panic attack, the urge to flee is so strong, yk?

A lot of people have success with DHEA. I can't take it since it's a precursor to estrogen, and aggravates my migraines, but a lot of people in my adrenals group say they really feel a difference with it.


----------



## lastrid

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Ashgawanda is helpful, but it's a matter of how much adrenal support you need, and if you are in bad enough shape it may not be enough. Try it and see how you do.

I've used ashgawanda in the past and also adrenal extracts. A lot of people who aren't too far gone have good results with both, but I found that the adrenal extracts just revved up my adrenaline, which was exactly what I _didn't_ need. A lot of people with adrenal fatigue are already running on adrenaline and need cortisol, which is why we take hydrocortisone, and that is why cigarette smoking actually helps, because smoking a cigarette produces cortisol. Note, I am not saying smoking is good, I'm saying that is why so many people who quit smoking suddenly discover they are hypo and/or have adrenal fatigue. They've been masking their symptoms and self-treating without realizing it. Google cigarette smoking and cortisol, you'll find it. (Just in case you think I made this up.







)

When people who have adrenal fatigue quit smoking, they crash really hard because of all the cortisol they suddenly are not getting. Then they have adrenaline rushes and become irritable and exhausted and everyone thinks it's just withdrawal from nicotine.

I often say I wish I had known this stuff beforehand, and someone pointed out to me that it sounds victim-like. I don't mean for it to, if anything, I want to save others from going through 20 years of adrenal fatigue wondering what the hell is wrong while doctors misdiagnose and leave you hanging.

I've had adrenal fatigue for at least 20 years, and hypo for over 10. I was diagnosed with hypo maybe 6 years ago and adrenal fatigue 3 years ago. That is a long time to be sick and misdiagnosed or undiagnosed, I think.

I was a victim of the medical community and the pharmaceutical industry, along with big agriculture and the FDA. *But the way I take my power back is to expose the things they do that keep women sick.* _You don't have to be sick for 10 years, or 20 years, before you figure out what is wrong.

_ Make no mistake. I am not a victim. _I am a survivor._ I rant, and I rage at the people who grow rich keeping us sick, sure. I'd be an idiot if I wasn't angry. But I make it a point to share every single piece of information I've learned with everyone I can. It's important. Some people think I'm crazy, some think I go overboard, but at least I'm able to get out of bed every day, which is something I haven't been able to do a few times in my life. And if I help even a handful of other women to be _survivors_ too, cool. Why are we allowed to be mamma tigers if someone harms our children, but if someone harms us and we get angry, we're classified as victims? *Fight back like a tiger and be a survivor.*

Wow, this really speaks to me. I've probably had adrenal fatigue for 15, if not 20 years and I'm only 30. I feel like misdiagnosing doctors have stolen most of my life from me. It makes me incredibly angry. I like how positive "being a survivor" sounds.


----------



## bigeyes

http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_do...ominance.cfm#5

here is some more information on the other hormone relationships that go along with adrenal fatigue. It's way down low, but they finally mention adrenals. Look for *9. Stress Reduction*

The article itself is about estrogen dominance, but all of your hormones work together and that is part of the reason it's so hard to get the right treatment. Endos don't usually deal with 'female and male' hormones, and gynos don't deal with thyroid. And almost nobody deals with adrenal issues except for Addison's disease.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 

I've used ashgawanda in the past and also adrenal extracts. A lot of people who aren't too far gone have good results with both, but I found that the adrenal extracts just revved up my adrenaline, which was exactly what I _didn't_ need.

Often times it's the B-6 & ginseng in the glandular supplements that cause this feeling of being revved up - there are glandulars that don't have them, or have less of them. I'm sensitive to too much B vitamins as well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bente* 
This is interesting - I completed some tests about 6 months ago when I went to a doctor with a natural approach for my allergies.
I had very low DHEA, I am not sure how they measure that, but here in Norway my DHEA was 1.2 and the range is from 1.7-15.0
She gave me supplements to take:
DHEA
Vitamin c-1000
Zink 50 mg
mulitivitamin
Glutamine powder

What caught my attention was that I don't feel tired, but I do have that "terror anxiety impending doom for no reason" feeling!
I am wondering if I have adrenal fatigue??

My adrenal naturopath said that DHEA supplements can cause masculanizing changes in women therefore, he gives women pregnenolone & men DHEA. I take pregnenolone. Try to get a raw glandular & licorice too if your blood pressure is low.

I had the dread-horror anxiety from summer 2006-summer 2007. It has slowly disappeared!!! In early summer 2006, my cortisol was through the roof, I was a WRECK! By winter of '06/'07, my cortisol was gone, along with my DHEA & sex hormones. I've been taking licorice, pregnenolone, raw glandulars, CLO, vit c & magnesium. The last two I don't take regularly, only when I think about it.

I still have muscle pain, but thank goddess the imending doom-dread horror anxiety is gone! I can't wait to retest one of these days!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Often times it's the B-6 & ginseng in the glandular supplements that cause this feeling of being revved up - there are glandulars that don't have them, or have less of them. I'm sensitive to too much B vitamins as well.

B6 doesn't give me that same problem. It was the adrenal glandulars.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
My adrenal naturopath said that DHEA supplements can cause masculanizing changes in women therefore, he gives women pregnenolone & men DHEA. I take pregnenolone. Try to get a raw glandular & licorice too if your blood pressure is low.

Pregnenolone gave me migraines as well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I had the dread-horror anxiety from summer 2006-summer 2007. It has slowly disappeared!!! In early summer 2006, my cortisol was through the roof, I was a WRECK! By winter of '06/'07, my cortisol was gone, along with my DHEA & sex hormones. I've been taking licorice, pregnenolone, raw glandulars, CLO, vit c & magnesium. The last two I don't take regularly, only when I think about it.

magnesium all around rocks. I do a vitamin b2, magnesium, coQ10, melatonin protocol for migraines already. The dhea and pregnenolone at different times both gave me killer migraines even with all of that. When I stopped taking them, I leveled right back off to just menstrual migraines instead of daily ones.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I still have muscle pain, but thank goddess the imending doom-dread horror anxiety is gone! I can't wait to retest one of these days!


----------



## bente

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Often times it's the B-6 & ginseng in the glandular supplements that cause this feeling of being revved up - there are glandulars that don't have them, or have less of them. I'm sensitive to too much B vitamins as well.

My adrenal naturopath said that DHEA supplements can cause masculanizing changes in women therefore, he gives women pregnenolone & men DHEA. I take pregnenolone. Try to get a raw glandular & licorice too if your blood pressure is low.

I had the dread-horror anxiety from summer 2006-summer 2007. It has slowly disappeared!!! In early summer 2006, my cortisol was through the roof, I was a WRECK! By winter of '06/'07, my cortisol was gone, along with my DHEA & sex hormones. I've been taking licorice, pregnenolone, raw glandulars, CLO, vit c & magnesium. The last two I don't take regularly, only when I think about it.

I still have muscle pain, but thank goddess the imending doom-dread horror anxiety is gone! I can't wait to retest one of these days!

Thanks for that information. I am going to retest this week and will ask my doctor for pregnenolone rather than DHEA. What exactly is the cause of the panic attacks? Is it the cortisol being too high?

Last week I started taking Wild Yam and stopped because I think it was the cause of this pain I got - sort of high in my stomach and between the shoulderblades.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bente* 
Thanks for that information. I am going to retest this week and will ask my doctor for pregnenolone rather than DHEA. What exactly is the cause of the panic attacks? Is it the cortisol being too high?

Last week I started taking Wild Yam and stopped because I think it was the cause of this pain I got - sort of high in my stomach and between the shoulderblades.

I believe it is the adrenaline that causes the panic attacks.


----------



## bente

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I believe it is the adrenaline that causes the panic attacks.

That makes sense. Does my body release too much adrenaline at the wrong time because my hormones are wacky?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bente* 
What exactly is the cause of the panic attacks? Is it the cortisol being too high?


That's what our adrenals are for, dealing with stress, pumping out stress hormones, keepinng our hormones level. If they're compromised, they aren't going to be able to help our bodies handle stress. Normally, with healthy adrenals, you encounter a stress, you react & it subsides relatively immediately. When our adrenals aren't functioning optimally, the stress just continues, spiraling out of control & further depleting our adrenals - it's a vicious cycle really.

Bigeyes, I wonder if the DHEA & pregnenolone gave you migraines because your body just converted it all to estrogen? I betcha!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
That's what our adrenals are for, dealing with stress, pumping out stress hormones, keepinng our hormones level. If they're compromised, they aren't going to be able to help our bodies handle stress. Normally, with healthy adrenals, you encounter a stress, you react & it subsides relatively immediately. When our adrenals aren't functioning optimally, the stress just continues, spiraling out of control & further depleting our adrenals - it's a vicious cycle really.

Bigeyes, I wonder if the DHEA & pregnenolone gave you migraines because your body just converted it all to estrogen? I betcha!

Yup. That's _exactly_ what happened. DIM did the same thing when someone suggested I try it...BAD news. And with progesterone, I _lower my estrogen
_ and _raise my cortisol._
It doesn't make sense that the people who treat thyroid aren't treating adrenals and female hormones as well since it's all connected. We shouldn't have to be finding all this information ourselves, but as I said, thank God for the internet, yk?


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bente* 
That makes sense. Does my body release too much adrenaline at the wrong time because my hormones are wacky?

Yup. I literally was living on adrenaline for _years._


----------



## neveryoumindthere

Has anyone read about Royal Jelly for adrenal fatigue?
I read this in a book by Dr. Cass Ingram, Eating Right Living Longer (sorry not sure if that's the EXACT title)..anyway he mentioned Royal Jelly, but I haven't seen anyone mention it on this thread.

I found this little bit of info: http://www.oreganopro.com/royalpower.asp after a quick search.

Wondering if anyone's heard/read about it and/or tried it.


----------



## bente

My symptoms go back to when my first child was born. I had allergies before that - bad ones and got cortisone shots to deal. I had HELLP Syndrome with my first pregnancy, and during her first year is when the panic attacks started. I saw my doctor about the panic and he gave me Valium - told me it was just my adrenaline rushing at the wrong times. He told me to stop nursing and take the valium







I did not stop nursing (or take the pills), but now, in I realize he might have been right about the adrenaline - he just did not get to the core of the adrenaline problem









Does anyone know anything about HELLP Syndrome and Adrenal Fatigue?


----------



## bigeyes

I've never heard of HELLP syndrome. What is it?

I had an epiphany today. I have noticed since I started treating my adrenals and don't have as many of the adrenaline rushes, I don't have so many angry moments with my kids. I don't find myself having to walk away to calm down or remind myself not to yell.

This made me wonder about abusive parents, and if maybe someone explored adrenal fatigue in abusers they might be able to cut down on it. Since so many people with adrenal fatigue got that way from being in a constant state of fight or flight (not all got it from thyroid) wouldn't it make sense that since abusers come from abusive homes, and people with adrenal fatigue come from abusive homes, maybe there is a relationship? It seems so obvious to me when I see the difference in my temper, yk?

Does this make sense to anyone else?


----------



## neveryoumindthere

YES. Makes total sense. Especially because there are so many times I'm like I *KNOW* how to handle this in a GD way, yet my 1st reaction is the complete opposite of what I want to do


----------



## bigeyes

So here's the thing, you know how they always say that so many of the people in prison are the product of abusive homes? Wouldn't it make sense that somebody would be studying this? But so far nobody is. They make the connection between the abusive homes and the abusive/criminal adults, but they only suggest psychological treatments, never anything to do with adrenaline, which may actually be the cause, imo.


----------



## Avani

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 

This made me wonder about abusive parents, and if maybe someone explored adrenal fatigue in abusers they might be able to cut down on it. Since so many people with adrenal fatigue got that way from being in a constant state of fight or flight (not all got it from thyroid) wouldn't it make sense that since abusers come from abusive homes, and people with adrenal fatigue come from abusive homes, maybe there is a relationship? It seems so obvious to me when I see the difference in my temper, yk?

Does this make sense to anyone else?


I wanted to pitch in that my ex husband who i left due to abuse was tested for adrenal depletion and was told he was in dire need of fixing his adrenal function. He took the adrenal pills a few times and then just stopped. He always blamed his ADD for forgetting to take his supplements. I am positive if he would've treated his adrenals things would have been way different.


----------



## Avani

Also i have been following this thread for awhile. I know after all i have been through that i have adrenal issues. My anxiety has been off the wall for awhile now and all the Dr's i see say it is just situational. I started on Homeopathic tinctures for Thyroid and Adrenal support. I also got Mag Calm. I would love to do more for the adrenals but i am not sure where to start because i am nursing. I don't have the money for a naturopath, i did get a full workup done through a Dr but they never called with the results and i can't get ahold of them. My anxiety has gone way, way down. I am still having some issues with it. My energy is low, i can not focus. My anger was out of control for a bit but now that is way better with the Magnesium i think! I am in college full time and with 5 kids to care for all on my own i need the focus and energy and the anxiety to go away. Any suggestions?


----------



## bigeyes

I think this is huge. I know how hard it is to find someone to treat you for adrenal fatigue, so it isn't that big of a stretch for me to see that these guys are not only not diagnosed, but not treated.

I feel so _different,_ so much _better_ now, in such a relatively short time. I was sick for 20 years, yet in less than 2 I suddenly just lost the rages. I could see if things had gone the other way, if I had gotten _more stress and more responsibility,_ and maybe endured _more abuse_ myself, maybe I would have been worse. I can see how easy it would be to escalate. While I can't imagine some of the more horrific abuse I've read about, I honestly _can_ imagine (in the past) escalating to hitting when the adrenaline was pumping. I vividly remember yelling and telling my dsd to get away from me because I didn't think I could control myself. I don't think it would take much more to go the next step, and seriously, what I endured pales in comparison to what others have endured.

That is such a revelation to me. It's so easy to read about something in the news and think _I'd never do that._ But it's so scary when you can feel yourself losing control and you just _barely_ stop yourself from lashing out. Maybe these guys are just _one step past_ that.

If that's true, it's so _preventable, if they would just use adrenal treatment in addition to counseling._


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Avani* 
Also i have been following this thread for awhile. I know after all i have been through that i have adrenal issues. My anxiety has been off the wall for awhile now and all the Dr's i see say it is just situational. I started on Homeopathic tinctures for Thyroid and Adrenal support. I also got Mag Calm. I would love to do more for the adrenals but i am not sure where to start because i am nursing. I don't have the money for a naturopath, i did get a full workup done through a Dr but they never called with the results and i can't get ahold of them. My anxiety has gone way, way down. I am still having some issues with it. My energy is low, i can not focus. My anger was out of control for a bit but now that is way better with the Magnesium i think! I am in college full time and with 5 kids to care for all on my own i need the focus and energy and the anxiety to go away. Any suggestions?

go to stopthethyroidmadness.com and read up on adrenals, then join the naturalthyroidhormonesadrenals group on yahoo. there is a lady named val who is the adrenals _guru._ She talks people through the steps,
and there are a lot of people there who can help you find your way.


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
So here's the thing, you know how they always say that so many of the people in prison are the product of abusive homes? Wouldn't it make sense that somebody would be studying this? But so far nobody is. They make the connection between the abusive homes and the abusive/criminal adults, but they only suggest psychological treatments, never anything to do with adrenaline, which may actually be the cause, imo.

Coming out of lurkdom to say that you may be on to something here. I've actually talked to my sister about the possibility of our adrenals being destroyed by our abusive childhoods. And I know that my father (who was the biggest source of our abuse -- we lived in fear of his rages, which we could never predict) was, in fact, abused himself as a child.

I luckily seem to have broken the chain in that I have never hit or belittled my son. I'm amazed that I'm such a patient mother, actually. But I have had rage issues in the past and it's just in the past year or so that I feel calmer. I don't think it's a coincidence that it was in that time that I discovered WAPF and started eating very nutrient-dense foods.

The more I learn about nutrition, hormones, and gut health the more I'm convinced that mainstream doctors are really missing the mark in overlooking these things in patients whose complaints are behavioral/mental/emotional.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Coming out of lurkdom to say that you may be on to something here. I've actually talked to my sister about the possibility of our adrenals being destroyed by our abusive childhoods. And I know that my father (who was the biggest source of our abuse -- we lived in fear of his rages, which we could never predict) was, in fact, abused himself as a child.

I luckily seem to have broken the chain in that I have never hit or belittled my son. I'm amazed that I'm such a patient mother, actually. But I have had rage issues in the past and it's just in the past year or so that I feel calmer. I don't think it's a coincidence that it was in that time that I discovered WAPF and started eating very nutrient-dense foods.

The more I learn about nutrition, hormones, and gut health the more I'm convinced that mainstream doctors are really missing the mark in overlooking these things in patients whose complaints are behavioral/mental/emotional.

I have _got_ to find someone with some credentials who can find a way to do a study.


----------



## Avani

Not just finding someone with credentials but someone willing to put it to the test. Someone who works with the batterer's programs who could do a test on willing subjects and see the difference.My ex was so on edge and it was after he was arrested for cultivating marijuana that everything spiraled for him and us. He couldn't deal with life at all. He raged over the littlest things. He would be doing yoga and meditating and then he would jump up and strangle me if i irritated him somehow.That is when i took him in to have his adrenals tested. he was totally depleted.I tried so many times with so many supplements but he wouldn't stick to anything for very long. It has been a year since i have seen him but we talk still. He says he can't get out of bed for days, he can't work, his neck and back always hurt, he cries all the time, and a lady who he started seeing while i was pregnant told me that he started raging on her and pushing her around etc. I wish he could get help, be in his kids lives and actually particpate in life. Can you imagine if we could get adrenal help for some of these people how peaceful our country could be?


----------



## Avani

And thanks for the site! I'm off to check it out! And my rage, it is scary, i have never dealt with that before and i would walk away from the kids because i was actually worried what i might do. With the Mag calm and adrenal/thyroid supplements i no longer have this issue.


----------



## bente

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 

The more I learn about nutrition, hormones, and gut health the more I'm convinced that mainstream doctors are really missing the mark in overlooking these things in patients whose complaints are behavioral/mental/emotional.

Me too. This thread has really opened my eyes


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Avani* 
Can you imagine if we could get adrenal help for some of these people how peaceful our country could be?

Yes, I can! I'm reeling from this, because it's so simple, and nobody is studying it or trying to treat people who are violent for adrenal disorders.

I don't even step on bugs, yet I came _so close to hitting my children._ It just seems to me I can't be the only person so profoundly affected by this.


----------



## Avani

So i picked up my blood panel results. My glucose was high, i did not fast, and my TSH was on the way low end and my T4 was right in the middle. I recall my TSH being low last time i tested but the Dr told me since i was pregnant it was normal, i am not pregnant now. What does low TSH mean?


----------



## Avani

So my T4 was 1.01 with the range of .61-1.76
My TSH was 1.769 with a range of .350-5.5

so i'm normal?


----------



## Metasequoia

Does anyon have the book Full Moon Feast? Incredible book, btw. On page 264 the author writes that immediately after she gave up coffee, she had a dramatic occurrance of eczema.

Quote:

Dr. Tom Cowan (herbalist, I think) classifies eczema, allergies & asthma as diseases of adrenal insufficiency. Because all of them repsond so dramatically to cortisone medications and their derivatives, he believes that they are a result of a weak adrenal cortex.
What does everyone think of adrenal fatigue tying into food allergies? I'm hoping that once I heal my adrenals, I can enjot all of the foods once again that I'm currently reacting to.

I can't wait to see my naturopath next week & hear what he has to say about all of this!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Does anyon have the book Full Moon Feast? Incredible book, btw. On page 264 the author writes that immediately after she gave up coffee, she had a dramatic occurrance of eczema.

What does everyone think of adrenal fatigue tying into food allergies? I'm hoping that once I heal my adrenals, I can enjot all of the foods once again that I'm currently reacting to.

I can't wait to see my naturopath next week & hear what he has to say about all of this!

I think it makes perfect sense. I know I never had allergies until I was an adult, and they seemed to have gotten worse as my adrenal fatigue got worse.


----------



## Rachel J.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Does anyon have the book Full Moon Feast? Incredible book, btw. On page 264 the author writes that immediately after she gave up coffee, she had a dramatic occurrance of eczema.

What does everyone think of adrenal fatigue tying into food allergies? I'm hoping that once I heal my adrenals, I can enjot all of the foods once again that I'm currently reacting to.

I can't wait to see my naturopath next week & hear what he has to say about all of this!

I've never had any food issues before but when my adrenal fatigue and other symptoms cropped up a little over a year ago I started developing food sensitivites to the things I ate a lot of (like dairy, wheat, and peanuts). Also, the eczema on my hand that appeared a few years ago got progressively worse, starting in my pregnancy, cleared up when I got steroid shots to prepare ds's lungs, and then came back with a vengance. It flairs up, weeps and crusts, when I eat dairy (raw included). I don't know that it's directly related to the adrenal fatigue. My adrenal issues seem to be tied into and probably caused by the mercury/cadmium in my system as well as the bad bacterial overgrowth (that would definitely play a role in my digestive and sensitivity issues).


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## chancemakes5

I finally got my results back. That was the slowest two weeks ever, lol.

I'm not sure how to list it so I'll do my best

estradiol <0.5L
progesterone 22L
ratio pg/E2 44L
testosterone 19
DHEAS 2.8
cortisol morning 4.7
cortisol noon 0.8L
cortisol evening 0.9
cortisol night 0.4

I don't understand this all that well, but she explained much to me.

I'm starting a few new supplements including the licorice powder with marshmallow root and slippery elm bark.

I have been feeling better somewhat. I really increased my salt and took away fruit. Now I've had no trembling. I also think the positive thinking and whole diet really helps.

I have a ways to go, but I think I'm going to win this battle.
It's been nearly two years stolen from me and I'm fighting back.

My naturopath does think that much of my issue is the food allergies. I am a highly sensitive person I've learned. It only takes the smallest things with me.

A shocker for me now is that suddenly I have a sex drive. For about a week and a half. Bam out of nowhere, lol. I'm not complaining. I really think the salt is making a difference, though I'm not sure I understand why.
The test seems to say I had almost no estrogen or estradiol, and that is more or less the sex hormone right?

Also I have continued to eat red meats and protein and I feel like I have more energy. I'm going to bed earlier and trying to get off the internet which has been a challenge. I'm trying to deal with the children in a new way, staying focused and calm, not losing my cool. It's all a challenge, but if it gives me my health back I'm doing it.

My worst symptom is still my thoat. It
's tight and I feel like there's a lump sometimes or that I have to swallow contantly. I've seen a couple allergists and an ENT who tells me it's vocal cord dysfunction or Gerd. I have an appt. Feb 4th to have a looksie down my thoat. I'm hoping the licorice will take care of it if it's gerd. The throat closing is the worst thing to deal with and almost makes me batty.
I think it causes anxiety,









I need to get up more slowly because of the gonna black out feeling, yet it hasn't been as bad as usual.

I have less body aches and joint pain. Since I eliminated garlic I have had no shortness of breath breathing through straw feeling.

How is everyone else doing?

ETA My naturopath also put me on
HMF powder and rhodiola


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## chancemakes5

I've been feeling so well. Last night I woke in the wee hours with that shaky heart attacky feeling.









I'm hoping it was the mexican food my hubby took me out for last night.
Have't had that happen in a while and I certainly don't want to take something that's going to bring it all back.

Has anyone taken the rhodiola, the HMF powder or the GI powder?
Really it might have been some preservatives. I've avoided them for so long and didn't even think of it before dinner,


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## Demeter9

Hello there! I'm going to start reading this thread and see where it takes me.

Interesting on the cortisol. I tried taking the New Chapter's Holy Basil supercritical extract. Popped them in my mouth. I stopped taking them because twice I just about passed out when the effect hit me. Apparently, binding all my cortisol all at once is NOT a good idea for me.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Demeter9* 
Hello there! I'm going to start reading this thread and see where it takes me.

Interesting on the cortisol. I tried taking the New Chapter's Holy Basil supercritical extract. Popped them in my mouth. I stopped taking them because twice I just about passed out when the effect hit me. Apparently, binding all my cortisol all at once is NOT a good idea for me.

If you do 24 hour cortisol testing you can also find that you are high at certain times of the day and low at others.


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## chancemakes5

My hubby's best friend is a chemist/scientist and tonight he told hubby I need mexican yam.

Any thoughts?

All day today I feel awful.. I have that heart pounding feeling and lightheaded, yuck.

I didn't miss it.

I must say that my licorice drink mix is just awful, really bad, Bleck!!!!!

I usually love DGL so I thought I would like this, but it also has marshmallow root and slippery elm, so I dunno, but I have to plug my nose and swallow.

Haven't started the rhodiola yet, sort of waiting for opinions.
I've read conflicting info that it may actually casue the adrenals more stress since it is a stimulant.


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## reeseccup

The jicama (aka Mexican Yam) is a very good source of nutrients, as well as the parsnip.

Both are very yummy raw or cooked, and add a brazil nut a day, you are doing pretty good just through food nutrition.


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## bente

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
So here's the thing, you know how they always say that so many of the people in prison are the product of abusive homes? Wouldn't it make sense that somebody would be studying this? But so far nobody is. They make the connection between the abusive homes and the abusive/criminal adults, but they only suggest psychological treatments, never anything to do with adrenaline, which may actually be the cause, imo.

I was talking to my neighboor who is a homeopat who deals mostly with infertility - we got to the subject about adrenals and rage etc. She said that convicts - specially violent men have really strong adrenal glands. I am going to ask her if she knows of any research backing this.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bente* 
I was talking to my neighboor who is a homeopat who deals mostly with infertility - we got to the subject about adrenals and rage etc. She said that convicts - specially violent men have really strong adrenal glands. I am going to ask her if she knows of any research backing this.

I'd like to know, because that doesn't make a lot of sense when they say repeated stress such as growing up in an abusive home will weaken your adrenals. Unless the stats about how many of them are abused are wrong, and I really don't think they are. Maybe there has been a study?

I'd bet they instead have a lot of adrenaline to fuel the rage.









ETA-it looks like there is one more piece to the puzzle. monoamine oxidase. There is something about how it works or doesn't work with adrenaline that seems to be important as well. Otherwise, there seems to be a disagreement about whether violent criminals have high or low adrenaline, from what I've read so far. Seratonin seems to have something to do with it as well, and iirc, seratonin is another part of the picture.

http://www.science.siu.edu/microbiol...cr302/MAO.html

Everything I read online gives me the impression that they did studies to find one thing, and then they didn't go any further. I can't see where there was any treatment that led to changes in behavior, or any follow up. There are some studies that say some violent criminals take longer to raise adrenaline levels, and then their levels stay elevated longer, but there are others that say high adrenaline levels play a part in inciting violence.

But no matter how far I go, I'm not seeing that anyone successfully treated these guys and saw a difference. What's the point of studying this and forming a hypothesis if you don't test it?


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## Pookietooth

Yeah, that's so true -- why not test it? I know they say that giving prisoners prozac makes the number of fights go down. Why not treat the adrenals?


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## chancemakes5

Today My chiro suggested I add a few things to what I'm taking.
natural change progesterone cream
DHEA
nutriwest DSF formula

I'm still overwhelmed and unsure of who to listen to.
I'm going to try and read through this thread again and see if there are references to the things I'm supposed to take.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chancemakes5* 
Today My chiro suggested I add a few things to what I'm taking.
natural change progesterone cream
DHEA
nutriwest DSF formula

I'm still overwhelmed and unsure of who to listen to.
I'm going to try and read through this thread again and see if there are references to the things I'm supposed to take.

Hi Amy, I'm not sure what test you took - each lab has different ranges of normal. Can you post the reference ranges on your result page?

As far as the suplements go - I'd start with one at a time & wait at least a week before adding a new one. If one of them doesn't work for you, you'll have a hard time figuring it out if you start 3 or 5 new things at once. The first glandular I started with kept me up at night & it took me a week to figure it out & that was all that I was taking.

Also, I think I'd take eithe rthe DHEA OR the progesterone, but not both. I'm not a doctor, but I do know that DHEA is converted by our bodies into sex hormones - it might direct yours right into progesterone, so you wouldn't need two supps of progesterone, so to speak.

My ND & most other docs who treat AF prefer to use pregnenolone in women & DHEA in men as DHEA can have masculanizing affects on women, including rage. Pregnenolone is the first hormone that our bodies make out of cholesterol. It can then be turned into whatever we need, or, in some cases, things we *don't* need - everybody's body reacts differently. ANother reason to start with one thing at a time.

How do you take your licorice? I always mixed mine with a bit of boiling water & then filled it up with raw milk, but I'm off of dairy right now so I haven't been taking it.







: I need to figure out a new way to take it because I think it really helps with the BP.


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## chancemakes5

Yes your licorice drink sounded so good to me, but I have a terrible intolerance to dairy. It makes my bones and joints ache terribly and I have congestion as well as deal with IBS issues.

Here are my results from ZRT Laboratory

in range out of range

estradiol <.5 pg/ml 1.3-3.3 premenopausal
progesterone 22L pg/ml 75-270
ratio Pg/E2 44L Optimal 100-500 when E2 1.3-3.3
Testosterone 19 pg/ml 16-66 age dependent
DHEAS 2.8 ng/ml 2-23 age dependent
cortisol morning 4.7 ng/ml 3.7-9.5
cortisol noon .8L ng/ml 1.2-3.0
cortisol evening 0.9 ng/ml 0.6-1.9
cortisol night 0.4 ng/ml 0.4-1.0

SO far I'm feeling worse which is odd to me because I had been feeling so good. I've got those terrble muscle aches/cramps that coma and go and I keep having that low blood sugar trembling feeling, like my chest is thumping and I have been having the catch my breath palpitation feelings.

I'm hoping it's just me getting used to the supplements.
I take my licorice with icewater, yuck, it's awful, but I'm getting used to it.

The HMF powder is different, it tasted ok, I try not to taste it at all.
It's supposed to be the good bacteria that makes it's own colonies.

I've heard more good about rhodiola. It's another adaptogen. The woman who works at my health center has taken it with excellent results and I truly trust her judgement. I know we're all different, but I'm going to take it tomorrow while my hubby is home.

Hope everyone else has a wonderful weekend. I've been feeling well enough to sled with the kiddos, but I don't think I'll do that for a while now.


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## pia

I have been reading this thread with great interest for a week now. Although I haven´t been to the doctor yet, I think I can tick off just about all the symptoms on the list.

I have basically had 4 stressful years: 2 big moves, commuting between Asia/Europe, dh living away/traveling for 3 years, mum, 2 grandmothers, cat died, ds gluten intolerant, friend almost commits suicide....the list could go on in detail! Ugh.

I feel lucky that I have a very low-stress life in general. We unschool and I don´t really have any particular commitments of sorts. But I think all of these other stresses have just kind of toppled me a bit.

I actually feel worse since reading this thread







but I think it´s basically because I am more aware of how I feel.
Before I would just kind of "keep going".

Will be following this thread.







:


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## Avani

I read up on Rhoidola and spoke to a few folks who have used it and i have heard only good things. I heard to start at 100mg and see how it feels to you. The recommended dosage is 200mg a day but some people get jittery off of this. ALso take only in the morning and early afternoon. I read that this is good for PTSD which i am finally thinking is what i have.

I took my first Rhodiola today. I actually split a 100mg and started at around 50. I of course had a panic attack upon taking it because i freak myself out about taking anything.I breathed through it and was fine. I reminded myself that i have to start doing something to get better.I'm not certain i felt any different, more focused and energetic i believe. I did read to wait 3 days for full results. So i will keep trying at 50mg for 3 days and see how it goes. I am waiting to get into a ND right now so i can take the saliva tests.


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## littlewillow

I registered again becasue that was an older account and I don't remember the password, lol.(my dh updated my laptop and wiped it clean so I have to remember passwords now)

It was chancemakes5

So I have been experiencing hypoglycemia.
Last night was the worst it's been yet.

I was pouring sweat and trembling so bad.
I felt like my thinking was fuzzy.

I'm not sure what to do when this happens. It happens at night on occasion and in the evening alot.
My naturopath has not addressed this as part of my adrenal fatigue.

I will say I have never experienced anything so frighteneing, it might just be worse to me than an anxiety attack.
I felt like I was dying.


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## littlewillow

I have been taking the rhodiola now and haven't really felt much different. I've also been taking the HMF powder and oddly have had loose stools everyday since, sorry for the TMI. The licorice root powder has been going down more smoothly.

I have a question about low blood sugar.

What is the best thing to grab and eat.
I get the night lows. So low I tremble and sweat and feel dizzy and perhaps like I'm going to pass out, which is odd since I'm trying to sleep.


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## Avani

I grab a handful of almonds, string cheese or pieces of turkey for my low blood sugar. I always make sure to eat as soon as i wake up too.


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## Pookietooth

It's really better to prevent low blood sugar, but if you have an attack, I find those "carob energy nuggets" they sell in bulk in the natural section of the grocery store (or in Whole Foods) are good to have. They have honey as a sweetener, which seems more mellow to me. Generally, you want to eat every 2-3 hours, and make sure you have protein with whatever you eat.


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## Metasequoia

That's worrisome that you're hypoglycemia symptoms are getting worse instead of better - I think it's worth a call to your ND to find out if it could be one of the supplements.

I don't have hypoglycemia symptoms anymore (woot!) but when I did, I'd eat a lot of salty, crispy (NT) nuts. Salt is so crucial to healing the adrenals. At my worst, I would get the shakes over any little amount of stress. I'd get lightheaded to the point of being afraid to drive. It was really scary.

It looks like your progesterone is pretty low - what about a progesterone supp? Did your ND mention it? Mine was really low too but my ND prefers to directly treat the adrenals. I am taking pregnenolone though, which should be converted into progesterone if need be.
Your DHEA is also pretty low.
Your noon cortisol was a bit low, but the others weren't too bad.

I think you've probably figured all of that out







, just throwing in my 2 unprofessional cents.


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## littlewillow

Actually I have been looking forward to hearing your 2 cents.









I don't really understand the hormone testing.

I'm confused as to why she didn't really put me on anything directly to heal the adrenals.

Yes I'm worried that one of the supplements she gave me may be casuing the low blood sugar. I hadn't had an episode for weeks.

What would you ask for given my test results and what would you do?

I think I'm pretty overwhelmed with the whole situation as well as the large family I have that is at this moment causing me high stress, lol.

I do not want to get the anxiety attacks back either and that's how I felt all day today. Sort of high strung or tightly wound.

SO my cortisol doesn't look too bad, but it's the other hormones?









I'm not a complete idiot, I do have some knowledge of certain things, but this just throws me for a loop.
I appreciate all you've said already. I'll always appreciate your 2 cents, thank you. With very little family and few friends now that I"m a sahm, I've been scared and feeling a bit discouraged the last week.


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## pia

Anyone else feel irritated by reading what the Mayo clinic has to say about adrenal fatigue?







:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adr...atigue/AN01583


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## reeseccup

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pia* 
Anyone else feel irritated by reading what the Mayo clinic has to say about adrenal fatigue?







:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adr...atigue/AN01583









: Yes, because it's not backed behind their science and their theories to be used by their medicines, it's not real and it can't be fixed. Yet let's focus on depression and fibromialgia as the real issue so we can pump people up with drugs to mask symptoms instead of finding the leading cause and fixing it.







: AAAAAAAAnnnnd we all know that our symptoms are "all in our heads"...so must take drugs to suppress what we _think_ we are feeling, because what we _think_ we are feeling isn't real







: AAAAAAAAAand there is nothing we can do about it, except take brain altering dugs that suppress our brains ability to recognize when our body is in poor health and needs repairing through nutrition, exercise, alterations or other natural means.

*Our bodies are screaming out to us to take care of it, and we are listening, even if they [allopaths and those that worship them] aren't.*


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## Demeter9

Any symptoms largely dealt with by a female population will be poo-poo'd and treated as if they can gaslight you. It is pretty much de rigeur.

Particularly if they can treat all women's symptoms as if they are "in the head" or "hysterical" or gaslight you in general and make money and gain power by doing it. Or if it means that they can ignore you so you are less work and leave them alone.


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## littlewillow

This is pretty much what I was told yesterday when I went to the clinic.
I felt like I needed to go in with the low blood sugar, otherwise I would have waited to see my naturopath.
This doc I saw pretty much told me adrenal fatigue does not exist. He said adrenal insufficiency used to happen with people who had TB, but it is extremely rare, Yep, I felt like I was in the dark ages with some of the things he said. He also told me all the testing like for allergies and the saliva tests are all scams. As is the special foods. I felt like he was mocking me the whole visit.

He did however say that I had low potassium which is also very rare and perhaps I did have an adrenal issue so would I come in for a blood draw at 8 am? I did. I go back at 4 for the night cortisol. Just to see what he'll say next.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pia* 
Anyone else feel irritated by reading what the Mayo clinic has to say about adrenal fatigue?







:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adr...atigue/AN01583

What bugs me is that they poopoo the idea of it, but don't offer any conventional treatments - they just plain poopoo it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littlewillow* 
This is pretty much what I was told yesterday when I went to the clinic.
I felt like I needed to go in with the low blood sugar, otherwise I would have waited to see my naturopath.
This doc I saw pretty much told me adrenal fatigue does not exist. He said adrenal insufficiency used to happen with people who had TB, but it is extremely rare, Yep, I felt like I was in the dark ages with some of the things he said. He also told me all the testing like for allergies and the saliva tests are all scams. As is the special foods. I felt like he was mocking me the whole visit.

He did however say that I had low potassium which is also very rare and perhaps I did have an adrenal issue so would I come in for a blood draw at 8 am? I did. I go back at 4 for the night cortisol. Just to see what he'll say next.

Waitaminute, you're doing blood tests, not saliva? I thought your results above were saliva test results...


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## littlewillow

I did the saliva testing all through the natural health where my naturopathic dr is.
Yesterday I had not slept all night the night before with low blood sugar and was very sick so I dragged myself to the clinic yesterday morning because I was so sick and scared.
The reg doc there did not belive that I have the adrenal/hormone issues, even thought I took in my test results with me.
HE said saliva testing means nothing.
He wanted to have me do a blood test.

So to please him and all of my family that has been making me feel like crap,( like I'm a fool for believing in all the allergy testing and this as well) I went in for the blood test this morning and I go back at 4 for the other one. Cortisol and hormones.
I haven't had a blood test until today, Only saliva.
Perhaps I will feel better also with the blood test. Confirmation.

I just talked to my naturopathic dr a few minutes ago and she said my adrenals must be shot if I'm having low blood sugar symptoms that are that severe. That was pretty blunt of her, but I thought my cortisol was actually not all that bad. I don't think I really understand.
She asked if I'm taking anything that might have chromium in it.

I know I'm suffering and I don't like to be told I'm perfectly healthy. Like a person with 5 children would be sick on purpose and miss out on precious time with her family. Give me a break.

And they never did adress the low blood sugar issue yesterday at that clinic. I know nothing about numbers. They tested me and it was 84.
They never said a word about it. I hope that was normal. I had some mango orange juice before I went.


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## littlewillow

I think perhaps I"ve gotten myself all stressed out and worked up.

In the beginning I was going to a wellness center. The RN(Jane) I was seeing had "cured" herself of cancer as well as many other people of various ailments.
She was convinced I was suffering from EBV. ( blood testing showed that I had recently had the virus) my whole family tested positive too)

I began taking many supplements including cats claw, co-Q10, epa-dhea, a vitmamin liquid, circulation factors, n-acetly cysteine, etc... and she is the one who told me to eliminte wheat as well as many other foods. This was before I had the allergy testing.
I started feeling better and slowly the symptoms subsided. SOme remained, but the worst ones like the panic attacks and menieres were gone, unless I ate preservatives. My body no longer hurt unles I ate cheese or preservatives.

She could never tell me why I got a tightness of throat. I would also still get the low blood sugar feeling.
This is her http://www.willtree.com/jane.htm

I wanted to have some testing done so I went to a naturopath who offered the testing. I didn't realize they would then give me supplements too.
So I spoke with Jane about all of this and she told me she would rather not have too may hands in the pot and would not treat me if I was seeing someone else.. This makes perfect sense to me.

However I still had no diagnosis that I really believed. So I kept having testing done until I got one. Now I have the adrenal issue.

My concern is that now I don't know who to listen to and which supplements to take. They both made sense, yet they didn't agree with one another.
I've gotten myslef confused and I think it's making me anxious.
I feel like I've lost my own ability to judge what is best for me becasue it has been such a stressful situation that hasd gone on for two years. Perhpas I"m just at the end of my rope. I'm trying to think positive, but the uncertainty keeps butting in.
If you've made it this far , thank you.


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## Brookesmom

just wanted to wish you good luck and it is NOT all in your head.









Fruit juices aren't friendly to hypoglycemics- It causes the blood sugar to spike. If you have it I'd mix just a few ounces in a smoothie with some coconut oil or yogurt etc or a few ounces in sparkling water.

try eating low carb snacks instead, whatever you aren't allergic to.

btw, your morning cortisol is not optimal even though it isn't officially low, and your midday is low of course. It seems like your naturopath should skip the supplements or complement them with some hydrocortisone (cortisol replacement) IMHO. you might want to read the archives at the stop the thyroid madness website under the adrenals section. There is a ton of info there.

DD keeps bringing home cooties from kindergarten and taking me and my toddler out.... I'm struggling through another cold and boy is this winter hitting me hard since we moved back to the midwest. I guess I need more vitamin D. I need to remember to take my fish oils. I am exhausted at under 9 or 9 1/2 hours of sleep. yuck.

I go back to my dr. in about 3 weeks and if my thyroid is still suboptimal i'm going to ask her for some natural thyroid replacement and see if I can gradually wean off the cortisol that she started me on two months ago. I feel like it's not enough on it's own and I want to see if my own cortisol kicks in once my thyroid is better supported.... My stress is at home isn't going to go away anytime soon so I need to work with supporting my health through it I guess.

I definitely think there's something to the childhood abuse, etc. I grew up in a very dysfunctional setting with tons of fighting and yelling and anxiety, migraines, etc. I think I was in flight or fight for so long that I burned out my adrenals before I hit college!

Be back later.... Kelly


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## Pookietooth

What bugs me is that they call depression and fibro treatable conditions -- when really they mean druggable, since none of the conventional allopathic "treatments" cause the "conditions" to be cured. Just more fodder for big pharma, I guess. They want people to be on medications for life because they want to keep making money off them. To actually heal someone so they could live a normal life -- ha! Where's the money there?


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## littlewillow

I would like to voice my opinion on the rhodiola I was taking.

I took it for a week and the whole time I felt like I was on speed. It was terrible. It was supposed to give me more energy, but it made me have a rushing feeling in my chest and I could never relax.

I stopped and can feel the difference already. Whew!!!

I'm considering taking raw adrenal.

Today I am truly disgusted by the garbage we are forced to eat, breathe, and wear. It's frustrating when you know you have to be the one to make a difference. If I could only get my friends and family to listen to me about the changes that need to be made.
I wish I could make more of a difference myself.
Ok, rant over.


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## janhunt

I went to the U. of Minnesota and learned a lot about the Mayo Clinic. I have a high regard for the doctors there, especially the care they take to get things right. They're not just "drug mongers" nor do they jump on bandwagons. I always think the truth is somewhere in-between for those conditions that are not yet well understood.

I recommend Natural Factors' folic acid, 1 mg/day (separately, not in a multi vitamin) for all of my clients, and have had excellent feedback, especially for depression, anxiety or fatigue.


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## littlewillow

I have been having some issues that are really frightening along with the episodes of low blood sugar and foggy brain.
I've had irrational thoughts that don't seem mine.
It was pretty horrible last night and I finally had a break down.
I think with my lack of a support group and no family or friends I've really started to lose my faith in getting better.
Are strange thoughts a normal part of this illness. I have felt like I'm not myself anymore. It's almost as if someone else is in my brain.
Yep, I've completely lost it.

Is there another forum for hormones being out of whack.

I'm still waiting on the blood tests for thyroid and cortisol.

The palpitations have also come back and they are no fun either.

I was feeling so good.

Now I have no idea what to take and what to avoid. I am so incredbily sensitive at this point. To everything. IS adrenal fatigue what has causewd my food allergies and intolerances.
How do you cope. How do you push aside the thoughts that you are crazy.


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## littlewillow

nm double post


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## littlewillow

My dr office called and said my blood tests for cortisol, thyroid, vit D came back perfectly normal.
I have yet to drive over there and grab the results to see what they said.

At this point I am just disgusted with everyone I've seen.

I've gotten Dr wilsons book and am considering his supplements.

Glad to have gotten the rhodiola out of my system at last.

I also did the am and Pm cortisols while on licorice root, I'm thinking that was not a good thing.


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## tanyamarie

For little willow: If you feel comfortable, please email me at [email protected]. I have a very worthy resource for you that will give you brilliant and caring FREE adrenal advice. I also want to share with you the relatively inexpensive product I've been taking that has blessed me with a quick "180" (my twin sister also suffering Adrenal issues just started taking the same complex and her "scary" episodes are now behind her as well). I empathize and sympathize greatly. It took me 10+ years to finally get solid answers and help. As a result, I am now also obtaining my Doctoral degree in Natural Medicine to give back and hopefully do it more as a "ministry" and notsomuch a "paying job". By the way, the Adrenal Complex I want to share with you has been perfectly safe while I've nursed my daughter (still nursing). Hope to hear from you. God bless you, dear!!


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littlewillow* 
My dr office called and said my blood tests for cortisol, thyroid, vit D came back perfectly normal.
I have yet to drive over there and grab the results to see what they said.

At this point I am just disgusted with everyone I've seen.

I've gotten Dr wilsons book and am considering his supplements.

Glad to have gotten the rhodiola out of my system at last.

I also did the am and Pm cortisols while on licorice root, I'm thinking that was not a good thing.

I wouldn't trust the blood tests.


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## bigeyes

Some things to remember about tests-

'normal' ranges don't mean a thing. plenty of people feel like crap with 'normal' ranges for thyroid.

if they tested your cortisol by having you pee all night and save it, then they did an average, it doesn't mean squat. If they only tested your cortisol once, it doesn't mean squat. Some people have varying levels of cortisol, and you can be low in the AM and high in the PM.

Get your numbers and research how to interpret them, go to some groups for help. Did they happen to test your ferratin levels? IIRC you need fairly high ferratin levels for proper thyroid function.

What kind of a doctor did you see?


----------



## littlewillow

I typed out a reply a couple of days ago and then lost it so I'll try again, lol

I saw a regular doc at a clinic. I went there with the low blood sugar scare.
I handed him my adrenal fatigue saliva test and he said he did not believe it and set up appt's for an am and pm cortisol as well as vit d and thyroid.

His office called Sat morning and said all tests came back normal and the cortisol was perfect.

This is the second or third time I've done blood cortisol testing for am and pm.

I think I need to take a break and educate myself on all of this rather than begging everyone else for a diagnosis or a cure.

Right now the worst thing I'm suffering with is the Gerd or vocal cord dysfunction which ever one it happens to be or not be.
Everyday I struggle to breathe clearly and deeply. My throat always feels tight and full. Sometimes I feel like I've got something stuck in my throat or like my throat is going to close.
It was on and off for a year and now it's constant.
My chiro tells me I have a hiatal hernia.
I do "burp" alot and I already eliminated all the offending foods, raised the elevation of the head of my bed, etc...

I'm considering trying the prescription ppi's. It's getting worse and it IS affecting my quality of life. In a BIG BIG way.

So here it is layed out.

Adrenal Fatigue-possibly-----hormones and low blood sugar issues
Gerd or vocal cord dysfunction-causing me serious anxiety

I cannot live my life as I used to. It is all consuming trying to breathe and having no muscle strength to do anything.

I keep wishing I could just not think about it and I honestly try to do that and then it hits me and knocks me down.

I hat for this to seem like I'm having a pity party, but I am sick of this and doctors telling me absolutely while I sit here trying to suck in air and my kids looking longingly at the lady who used to play with them and take them places.

If I were to get into a research hospital, which one would you suggest trying. I live in Idaho, but am willing to go where I need to go to get back to normal.

ETA IS there a Gerd/ acid reflux thread?


----------



## bigeyes

I feel your pain. This is why it's *so important* to find a doctor who actually believes adrenal issues exist. everyone else just wastes our time and blows smoke.







:


----------



## littlewillow

My husband and I are going to try and find a good doctor in Boise rather than our small town.

I forgot to mention that I have almost constant numness in my face and right arm. I'm not sure yet what it is related to, perhaps the TMJ from my accident.

I'm finally fed up and don't believe I should be forced to live this way when there is so much knowledge out there.

Thank you. It is the worst feeling to have people look at you with that look. You KWIM, the one that says I don't believe you.


----------



## nichole

Littlewillow- dont give up! there are good drs out there.

My dr gave me a adrenal fatigue saliva kit, BUT i don't want to take it yet b/c i was on methylpredisolone and flonaise recently. i'm not sure how long to wait for it to get out of my systerm.

i'm starting armour today under my tongue and drinking bottled water. i'm going to take some vit c and probiotics. i have high hopes for my new treatment!


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
It seems to me the 2 things I was diagnosed with have a lot of the same symptoms, fibromyalgia and adrenal fatigue. And the same cause, _burnout._

Before, I was able to work 2 or 3 jobs, 7 days a week, run on little sleep, exercise, totally _not_ take care of myself, and still feel great. Apparently all of that is what led to years of feeling like [email protected] now.







It's like I used everything up, yk?

This is many pages back, but I agree. Too bad I can't go back and redo college!


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littlewillow* 
Everyday I struggle to breathe clearly and deeply. My throat always feels tight and full. Sometimes I feel like I've got something stuck in my throat or like my throat is going to close.
It was on and off for a year and now it's constant.

I have no real advice to offer you, but I'm coming out of lurkdom again to mention that I saw on the Iodine thread that some others had this symptom and it was an iodine deficiency (which is related to thyroid disorders).


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Littlewillow- dont give up! there are good drs out there.

My dr gave me a adrenal fatigue saliva kit, BUT i don't want to take it yet b/c i was on methylpredisolone and flonaise recently. i'm not sure how long to wait for it to get out of my systerm.

i'm starting armour today under my tongue and drinking bottled water. i'm going to take some vit c and probiotics. i have high hopes for my new treatment!

Look into getting a good water filter and ditch the plastic bottles.

The more I read about plastic, flouride and chlorine, the less I want to mess with that stuff, either. I've got stainless steel water bottles on the way right now and I've been drinking out of glass until then, which is a PITA, but I seriously think bottled water was another contributor to my problems.


----------



## tanyamarie

Amy, I sent you a pvt message today. I forgot to mention that on top of my adrenal recovery, I also have battled and managed sugar, dairy, and gluten intolerance, as well as enviromental and chemical sensitivities. Hope I can help you out with this, as well. Hope to talk soon. Hang in there. This "sickness" is NOT the life your Creator made you for (deep breath)! There's more to life than _this_, Dear heart!


----------



## littlewillow

Thank you for the message.
I'm on my way to an appt, but I will pm you when I return. I'm very interested in your resources.

This shortness of breath is killing me today. It seems to be getting worse and especially bad when I stand.

I've run out of dr to see here. They think me mad.

I'm so discouraged. I'm still trying to find that good doc in the city.


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littlewillow* 
This shortness of breath is killing me today. It seems to be getting worse and especially bad when I stand.

I've run out of dr to see here. They think me mad.

I'm so discouraged. I'm still trying to find that good doc in the city.


In one of your posts you said your thyroid came back normal. Do you know what the results (and ranges)were?

The brain fog, feeling like something is stuck in your throat, shortness of breath...all scream hypothyroidism which can also be caused by or be the result of adrenal fatigue.

The test most doctors do-- TSH, T4 uptake and total T3 are usually meaningless. You need to have free t3 and free t4 done as well as an antibody test. So many people go misdiagnosed with this because the docs refuse to do the correct tests.


----------



## littlewillow

Ok I just got home from grabbing a copy of this test.

It says

vitamin D 28 (15-75)
cortisol am 13.6 (5-25)
t4 free .89 (0.58-1.38)

It was am and pm cortisol, but I don't know how it works.

If there are some tests you think would help, I would love a list.

I found a doc who has no idea what I have, but he is more than willing to run every test I ask.

I also have an appt with the new internal medicine doc in a town near by.
I've heard that he is very good and listens.

ETA here's something the doc and I spoke about today. When I breathe the best is whn I'm sitting and almost sort of hunched over.
It's when I stand and sit up really tall that breathing gets the most difficult.
Does that make sense to anyone. He said it sounded like it was an airway issue so perhaps the GERD was the right diagnosis.
ANyway he was new at the clinic and he is the one who referred me to the new doctor in the next town. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he will listen and perform the right tests.


----------



## tanyamarie

Okay, I know I'm going out on a limb here, as I don't anticipate many believing what I'm about to say, but Fibromyalgia, CFS, Adrenal Fatigue, Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, Food Allergies/Intolerances, Candida, Hypothyroidism, organic brain syndrome, Auto-immune batttes and other immunity related disorders all have common threads and I believe a common denominator. Unfortunately, most of us have been made to feel "crazy" after seeing doctors who have not necessarily helped us deal with the roots causes of these horrors, and often make us feel worse (less validated or affirmed) than when we walked (or crawled) into their offices. I will write more later. Motherhood calls. Warmth to all of you, especially you littlewillow!!


----------



## littlewillow

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tanyamarie* 
Okay, I know I'm going out on a limb here, as I don't anticipate many believing what I'm about to say, but Fibromyalgia, CFS, Adrenal Fatigue, Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, Food Allergies/Intolerances, Candida, Hypothyroidism, organic brain syndrome, Auto-immune batttes and other immunity related disorders all have common threads and I believe a common denominator. Unfortunately, most of us have been made to feel "crazy" after seeing doctors who have not necessarily helped us deal with the roots causes of these horrors, and often make us feel worse (less validated or affirmed) than when we walked (or crawled) into their offices. I will write more later. Motherhood calls. Warmth to all of you, especially you littlewillow!!

Thank you and I here you.

DId you know I was also dx with fibro and candida and have the food intolerances etc.....
I have been trying to tackle on thing at a time, and I imagine it all one thing.

Today I had a dr actually sit quietly and listen to me.
His eyes wide open and only speaking when I asked something of him and then when I was finished.
It was the first time that has really happened.

And he never told me it was anxiety.
Although I did admit with 5 kids and a hubby who travels the world, I do have a high stress level.

I know I post here more often than I probably should, but I need to talk about it and not burden my hubby or children. My DH is wonderful, but he's been through this with me for the last 2 years and I want to give him a break.

Before this started happening in March of 06 I had been having kidney problems and they tied my tubes just in case.
SO He's been through so much and needs to see my loving side, not my frightenend out of my skin side.
I also avoid my children much of the time out of fear they will see my pain.
I want to be the good mother I meant to be, but I can't seem to get past the feeling awful. I know that is selfishness.

Looking forward to what you have to say and thank you for putting yourself out there.

~amy


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Look into getting a good water filter and ditch the plastic bottles.

The more I read about plastic, flouride and chlorine, the less I want to mess with that stuff, either. I've got stainless steel water bottles on the way right now and I've been drinking out of glass until then, which is a PITA, but I seriously think bottled water was another contributor to my problems.

well we rent so we can't do the reverse osmosis thing. i do not know if those pur water filters take out flouride???


----------



## nichole

littlewillow- thats great!


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
well we rent so we can't do the reverse osmosis thing. i do not know if those pur water filters take out flouride???

Nope.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
well we rent so we can't do the reverse osmosis thing. i do not know if those pur water filters take out flouride???

That's a good point. I always forget that other people automatically get flouridated water. Ours comes from rainwater so all we have to worry about is whatever other crap is in the atmosphere.







: We have a complicated multiple filter system on our water and it's better than any of the water I can buy locally, plus it isn't coming in plastic bottles.

http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemis...vefluoride.htm
http://www.fluoridealert.org/faqs.htm#B1


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tanyamarie* 
Okay, I know I'm going out on a limb here, as I don't anticipate many believing what I'm about to say, but Fibromyalgia, CFS, Adrenal Fatigue, Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, Food Allergies/Intolerances, Candida, Hypothyroidism, organic brain syndrome, Auto-immune batttes and other immunity related disorders all have common threads and I believe a common denominator. Unfortunately, most of us have been made to feel "crazy" after seeing doctors who have not necessarily helped us deal with the roots causes of these horrors, and often make us feel worse (less validated or affirmed) than when we walked (or crawled) into their offices. I will write more later. Motherhood calls. Warmth to all of you, especially you littlewillow!!

A lot of people agree with you. There are a group of folks who insist fibromyalgia is simply under or untreated hypothyroidism. My mom is severely hypo, doesn't treat it, and is considered permanently disabled with fibro. I wasn't diagnosed with fibro until an idiot endo jacked around with my thyroid meds. When I started self-treating my thyroid my fibro eased up _miraculously.







_ Whether or not my fibro is kicking up depends upon where I am with my hypo and adrenal issues. It's not just coincidence.

It's also not a coincidence that these are all mostly conditions that affect women, and they are mostly undertreated or ignored by the medical community. _We've come a long way, baby._







:


----------



## Demeter9

It is always easier to tell women that they are insane than it is to actually DO something.

Then again, most of the time when they do do something it isn't a favour. Or there are Devils in the details. So I guess that might be okay.

Quite a few of the illnesses you've listed are also found in people who've got virus and retroviruses (prions and other variations of DNA snippets of viruses) that are all variations of the genetics of the Herpes virus. CMV, Epstein-Barr, etc. They are all "descended" from the same source viruses that are Herpes.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Demeter9* 
It is always easier to tell women that they are insane than it is to actually DO something.


yup. It's pretty insulting when you realize that hysterical and hysterectomy both have the same origin.







: It started a _long_ time ago and we still haven't gotten most docs up to date.


----------



## tanyamarie

Amy,

Just wanted to say a quick hello and let ya know I'm still thinking of you. I am so glad to hear that you were actually patiently HEARD today by a seemingly caring doctor. I am itching to talk to you about several things that I feel would begin alleviaing your symptoms, especially now that I'm clued in on more of what ails you. What goes in your body in the form of food and water (and what doesn't that perhaps ought to) as well as what goes into your lungs and body in the form of particulate, toxic, or polluted air vs. fresh oxygen-rich air PLAYS A BIG PART in the symptoms your body is manifesting. This was a HUGE part of my recovery (Candida and Fibro and MCS and food intolerances and a form of Rheumatoid Arthritis with the Adrenal fatigue) were given to me as diagnosis also). If you get a min to call me tomorrow, my hubby may be here and take my little sweetie off my hands for a bit so we can talk uninterrupted.







Get a good night's rest!!


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## nichole

I started my coconut oil today. I really hope it helps! I noticed my vitamins do not have as much B-5 that is recommended for adrenal fatigue. So maybe I need more of that. I am on vitamin c and echinacea trying to get over this infection i think i might have. i should get some lab work back monday yay!

i'm still tired though! dh took ds1 out so i can nap. just waiting on the baby to please please take his nap.


----------



## BeingMe

It's time for another adrenal test and I was wondering what all I have
to stop taking and how long before I can test? I take isocort,
iodoral, thyroid, multi's, calcium, magnesium, b complex, probiotics,
cod liver oil, herbal tincture for stress and going to sleep, vitamin
c, iron and some others.
Also, I know I asked this before but I still can't seem to understand
it. What is the real difference in a 4 tube test and 2 tube. My ND
says that a 2 tube is just as good, and I know people here say to use
the 4 tube, but why? What can I say to my doc in defense of the 4 tube
test?
Thanks!!


----------



## nichole

Hey there

The four vials are for collecting your saliva at four different times of a day. It comes with instructions explaining what medicines could interfere. Most of them are hormones and steroids like prednisone, flonaise, etc. All those vitamins will be fine, but I don't know about the other stuff. I can look on my sheet for you if you need to know before you get your test. I'm going to do mine at home. It is a kit that you take home.


----------



## ledzepplon

HELP!

My naturopath diagnosed me w/ adrenal fatigue (mild) and had me taking pregnenolone and dhea drops as well as adrenal support supplements and some other minerals. I started taking them in early January.

Well, my period was due around Jan 26 and never came. I assumed the treatment was interfering with my cycle, especially since dh and I only dtd one time, within about a day or two of the end of my last period. But I just took a pregnancy test and it showed up positive!









Is there any chance the hormones I'm taking caused a false positive? I did stop taking them a little more than a week ago because I was hoping my period would resume if I laid off them a bit.

I'm going to call my naturopath tomorrow . . . but I'm kind of freaking out!


----------



## BeingMe

I was also wondering about pregnancy. How long before I wanna get pregnant do I need to stop the isocort and thyroid, and what can I do during pregnancy to help??


----------



## bigeyes

A lot of women find that their fertility problems clear up once they get their thyroid meds optimized. I don't think you'll want to stop your thyroid hormones at all.

I'm not sure about the cortisone question, someone else will have to field that one. I think it's probably wise to get your adrenals taken care of before you get pregnant though, since that's going to be another stress on them.


----------



## Manonash

Ok, I'm only on page 13 of this mega thread, and can't stop reading! I wanted to post before DD woke and see if you think this sounds like me. Sorry if this gets long...

It all started (that I noticed) about 10yrs ago. I was addicted to sugar -- CF soft drinks and candy and chips. Would eat one ok meal a day and the rest was pure junk. I had headaches (not migraines though) a lot, indigestion at night, hot flashes and night sweats in the middle of the night, constant waking around 2:00am back asleep around 4:00, addicted to exercise -- aerobics, where I would push myself till I felt high, hot flashes during my periods, and peripheral neuropathy in my chest and leg. A couple -years later, I started having extreme carbohydrate intolerance. I would get a headache immediately upon consuming any kind of carb. B complex helped this. I also had a lot of muscle twitching, mostly small muscles like eyelids and eardrums. When I wasn't exercising, I felt drained and tired. Exercise made me feel better temporarily. I would often binge on chips and candy mid exercise too.
I started using the Schwarzbein principle diet plan, stopped all refined carbs, and had my healthy carbs at around 35g per meal (mostly complex) and started feeling better, but this constipated me some. In an effort to feel even better, I cut my carbs to 15g per meal, and did feel better painwise and my foggy thinking cleared, but I was really tired and my ovulation date kept getting later and later, so I stopped. Then I found the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (simple carbs only). I felt better quickly, and my bowel movements became very regular and I ovulated on day 14 or 15 of my cycle for 6months. However, the simple carbs gave me hypoglycemia issues that I hadn't had in a while since stopping all refined carbs. Not severe but noticable. I decided my problem was dysbiosis of the gut and that healing my gut would fix me. But, I never did completely recover like I would have expected too. I also started taking SAMe, which did improve my OCD symptoms and general mood.
I got pg, and felt great during my pg, although VERY tired (fatigued was more like it) throughout the whole thing, there was no pain and no bowel trouble the last 6m(after I stopped SCD). I stopped SCD about 3m in and just ate whatever I wanted. I didn't go into labor and had to do the pit thing. A couple of months after DD was born, I started having very bad joint pain at night. The muscle twitches started returning, and the foggy thinking and irritability and OCD oh my. My OCD hadn't really been too bad up until a couple of months ago, but is coming back pretty hard now. My menstrual cycle hasn't returned 24m PP. No longer having night sweats or hot flashes and have stopped exercise altogether because I was worried it may be harming me.

Current symptoms:
-visual disturbances -- photopsia (flashes of light), and noticing peripheral movement more than I should
-cold hands and feet that I can't warm up without a fire or hot water
-high histamine level (blood test confirmed)
-developing insomnia (DD is still nitenursing, but I can't sleep when she does). Woke up at 2. Notice what time this post is  Worse when I consume histamine/histadine containing foods
-hypoglycemia pretty sensitive, although it seems to swing with what I think are my cycle hormones trying to return
-very sensitive to light in the mornings and have trouble adjusting to it
-very sensitive to carbohydrate intake, just can't tolerate them very well in any form
-I'm underweight, and can't gain. (I've read conflicting info on this, and have seen it listed as a symptom for some)
-I have very little stamina and am weak muscularly
-I'm nervous, jittery, and just plain irritable. Snapping at people and overreacting all the time (especially to DD







) I hate this!
-I can't put a thought together to save my life -- foggy head, poor memory, once had to use a calculator to mult simple numbers
-Ravenously hungry all the time and crave salt and sweet
-Mild depression and OCD getting worse
-IBS
-skin problems, dry and thinning, getting these strange eruptions that will come up as a rough spot about the size of a small pea that will stay a few weeks and then disappear (come up kinda like a pimple), and small amounts of rough patches and cracking spots, chapped lips (chronic). Premature skin sagging under chin.
-heart palpitations (seem to be better since going back on SCD)
-I can't break a sweat for the life of me (when I was exercising hard, I never could sweat at all)
-hearing is whacked out. I can't tell direction of sound very well and am starting to notice mild hearing loss (very mild but noticable), and sometime tinitis
-itchy, burning skin (high histamine, I'm sure)

Testing:
Intracellular nutrient testing (Spectracell) showed low Calcium, Vit D, Glutathione, CoQ10, and Zinc. With the Ca, Glutathione, and Zn being really low. Retesting a few months later showed normal Ca (heavy supplementation) but lower Zn.

I'm currently taking absolutely nothing in the way of supplements because I have been nervous about the BFing thing. Since Zn and CoQ10 and Niacin pass thru breastmilk at relativmely low doses I didn't want to OD DD, and many of the rest have unknowns that way about them. Also, not sure if I should continue SCD or not, since I don't think it is very conducive to healing AF issues with all the simple carbs.

I'm ready to do the saliva test. Does this sound like me?

Also, if this is me, is it safe to do the colonoscopy I have scheduled in two weeks? I'm worried about the sedation. (Versed, Demerol). Being the obsessive I am, I'm thinking of the friend I had who had undiagnosed Addisons and went in for routine surgery and died. Granted, she had been having some severe misdiagnosed symptoms for years.

Thanks all! I'm really worried about my health, and have grown a huge distrust of doctors after the years of trying to get help and have been being my own doc basically for 8yrs now. I live in a small town and the nearest large city where I would be more likely to find someone is 3hrs away. We do visit Dallas about every 8wks or so, though. I want help, but don't know where to get it. I REALLY want this AF thing to be me, because then I would have an explanation for my health problems and it wouldn't just be me, and then I can finally start treating the root cause of all this mess. I have a hard time enjoying my daughter lately and she's one of the best things I've ever done. I want some peace, dangit!


----------



## Manonash

I had read Dr. Wilson's book a few years ago and decided I didnt have AF based on the fact that I'm underweight and no longer had trouble sleeping. I also had done the pupil test and my reaction was fine. However, I decided to do the pupil test again, this time before my eyes light adjusted in the morning. They were sluggish. Not reeeeeeeal slow, but definitely noticable. I'm going to check on testing now.

I just wish I could find a doc!


----------



## nichole

Manonash- you can order your own test from the Canary Club and then you only need a dr to sign it. maybe you could find a doc in finding your tribe or the stopthethyroidmadness website.

I've felt I feel awesome as long as I do not eat any dairy or grains. I thought it was just gluten, but even presoaked brown rice is bothering me. bummer!!!!


----------



## Manonash

Thanks. I didn't find one on the sttm site and the finding my tribe thread for me is very inactive.

I thought this was a good site for determining which foods are high and potassium. I notice I have mouth and lip and throat tingling with a lot of the high K foods.

I wish I had found this thread earlier - seems to have slowed down. How's everyone doing?


----------



## thefragile7393

Ever since I've started doing the Power Shake, which is noted in Tired of Being Tired, I've felt a difference, even more than I did when I first started supplements. It also seems to be doing my immune system some good. I chose the apple cinnamon one, since the others seemed to be a little complicated. I throw in some coconut juice, raspberries and some vanilla-flavored stevia for good measure....the energy is amazing...I'm still tired but not life before. The probiotics in the green food have really helped, since my husband and son have been fighting some intestinal bug for two weeks but I have yet to get it and I think it's the probiotics.


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Manonash- you can order your own test from the Canary Club and then you only need a dr to sign it. maybe you could find a doc in finding your tribe or the stopthethyroidmadness website.


The doc that runs Canary Club signs it. You just have to order it and send it out....


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan* 
It's time for another adrenal test and I was wondering what all I have
to stop taking and how long before I can test? I take isocort,
iodoral, thyroid, multi's, calcium, magnesium, b complex, probiotics,
cod liver oil, herbal tincture for stress and going to sleep, vitamin
c, iron and some others.
Also, I know I asked this before but I still can't seem to understand
it. What is the real difference in a 4 tube test and 2 tube. My ND
says that a 2 tube is just as good, and I know people here say to use
the 4 tube, but why? What can I say to my doc in defense of the 4 tube
test?
Thanks!!


You need to stop taking isocort for 2 weeks. Not sure if your checking thyroid function or not but if you are and you're taking Armour or T3 then you need to take your last dose no less than 12 hours before the test.


----------



## NocturnalDaze

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan* 
I was also wondering about pregnancy. How long before I wanna get pregnant do I need to stop the isocort and thyroid, and what can I do during pregnancy to help??


You definately need to continue the thyroid.

As far as the Isocort, it has other herbs in it that you may not want to take long term while pregnant. For example I don't believe you are supposed to take echinacea over long periods of time. I would switch to just Hydrocortisone (Isocort has 15mg of HC in it).

In 2006 I had 2 miscarriages before I got myself switched to Armour(from Levoxyl). I also discovered that I had adrenal fatigue and I started taking 20mg of hydrocortisone.

I got pregnant last March and continued the Armour and Hydrocortisone (both had to be raised during pregnancy). In Dec I had a perfectly healthy baby girl.

Both Thyroid and Armour are replacing what your body needs. If you don't take HC during pregnancy then you will take cortisol away from your baby.

If you are concerned about taking HC while pregnant I recommend the book "Safe Uses of Cortisol". It is expensive at $50 but it will set your mind at ease.

I do think that it's important that youare optimized on both Thyroid and HC before you become pregnant though.


----------



## jlutgendorf

Has anyone ordered the diagnostics test from canary club lately? I got mine a week or so ago and need to test sometime wed. through friday.

They've just added a free thyroid screening, but on the sheet it talks about getting your blood serum sample and saliva sample within two hours of eachother. What do they mean? Are they referring to one of the cortisol saliva samples or is there an extra one that goes with the new blood test?

Let's hope I don't screw this up!

~Julia


----------



## BeingMe

I was told I need to stop both the thyroid and the adrenals for 4 weeks before I test from ZRT. They said because I have been on the adrenals since July that I should be off them for 4 weeks before testing.
I was wondering about the echinacea in the Isocort. I've been on Isocort since about August and I wonder about the echinacea being safe. My mom has autoimmune and our naturopath isn't concerned even with her using it.
My mom had breast cancer in 2005 and her markers keep getting worse. Her WBC is dropping and it seems like all the work the naturopath is doing isn't helping. Anyone have any idea what to do??


----------



## MommyHawk

I don't know if this is what I have, but taking an online quiz sure seems to spell out what's happening to me/how I feel. How do you get your doctor to do an ASI test for you?

I've had blood drawn at least 5 times in the past 2 weeks (spent time in the ER and a lot of time on the couch resting). I have been ordered to take salt tablets and salt the heck out of everything. I feel great after mega salt consumption, but I'm afraid of overdoing it.

I keep having waves of feeling like I'm going to slip out of myself, faint, not so much dizziness but like I'm just going to stop being here, KWIM? I almost passed out in the doc's office so he called the EMT's and rushed me to the ER for all these tests. I have a good feeling it's Adreanals, but he seems to think it was just the flu (I've had the flu before, that was NOT the flu)

anyway, anyone have any BTDT advice? thanks!


----------



## Periwinkle

Metasequoia... just read your initial post - I've missed this thread somehow







- and I'm really curious, especially about the cutting out caffeine and eating lots of salt angle. I CRAVE lots of salt. I heavily salt everything (I use "RealSalt"). You'd think I didn't taste it. I've always wondered if I'm self-medicating.







I drink tons of coffee too and have been wondering how this is impacting me. I also notice I'm rarely thirsty.

Subbing and I'm going to try to catch-up on this thread.

(p.s., let's get together! You can tell me how to cut out coffee and I can tell you how to avoid grains!







What a fun playgroup! Salt water and hard-boiled eggs for everyone! Wheee!) lol


----------



## Jeanne D'Arc

Hi everyone, can I join your little club?

I am having trouble deciding what is wrong with me.

I have lyme, that much is evident however i am having
very horrible, scary symptoms that i think are traced to
one or two core causes. I suspect Adrenal Fatigue...

*Severe* Adrenal Fatigue...

Here are my symptoms someone help me out









1. Waking up feeling EXTREMELY sleep deprived. Even after
8 or close to 8 hours of sleep i can hardly get out of bed
because i feel like ive hardly slept at all. If I get less than
8 hours omg i swear i will die, it literally feels like i will die.

I will feel extremely stressed, have heart palpitations, muscle
cramps and just feel so tired i could die until i get a few naps
in that day. Last few days its been really bad and ive spent
most of the day in bed trying to nap.

2. Panic Attacks and Sensitivity to supplements. I read that
B complex is important for Adrenal fatigue however i get
severe panic attacks with my Vitamins and B complex
I am taking, this never used to happen so i dont know
what is going on. I just know I am getting weaker, exhausted
nervous and severely debilitated...it is scary

3. Noise sensitivity, and sometimes wake up in the middle of
the night, if I am particularly unlucky ( esp around my cycle)
It will take me hours to fall back asleep. This absolutely
kills me.

I am currently taking Drenamin right now, working up to 4 a day.
A friend of mine who is in School for her ND license and is already
a Health care practicioner says i need 6. I cant help but
feel aside from detoxing and doing this I am missing something.
Ive been taking 2 a day for a long time which isnt cutting it.

Not sure if I have adrenal fatigue or if maybe it is my liver...
though i doubt my liver would do all of this to me. I am actually
getting quite fearful though..i mean it is REALLY bad whatever it is,
much worse tiredness and fatigue than i have read about.

I have no money right now and cannot afford to see a professional.

Thanks everyone, let me know what you think!


----------



## Jeanne D'Arc

I also wanted to add that I am getting dark circles under my eyes...

This is coming from someone who has never had dark circles
ever!


----------



## BeingMe

I would check out the Nutrition 101 thread at the top of the vax forum. Some really good info there.

It sounds like you may be anemic so I would look into that. I remember reading the vitamin c deficiency and magnesium def. can be associated with heart palpitations. Especailly with the cramps I would suggest some magnesium. Natural calm is a great brand and I would stick to the plain one, just dilute it enough that you don't taste it much. It's really good for calming and helping to fall asleep.

Make sure you are watching your blood sugar, meaning eat small meals throughout the day. Try to make sure you get some protein with each meal. And some veggies. Try not to eat much grains, and if so, pick low gluten such as brown rice. They even have brown rice bread, and trader joes sells a great brown rice pasta.

Try to get in some coconut oil. I get Nutiva's big one from iherb.com . It's a great price.

I will try to write more later, but the info in this thread is good. And if you can afford it I really recommend a saliva test and thyroid test. www.canaryclub.org has 2 for a great price.
There's also a yahoo group with very helpful ladies.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...ENALS/messages


----------



## Jeanne D'Arc

Oh yeah, forgot to mention back pain in the middle of my back,
it comes and goes, seems to coincide with these symptoms though.

I know that cant be good...


----------



## reeseccup

I've started chiro therapy and with all the nerve blocking going on in my neck and back, it's no wonder I've had so much issue with my thyroid, sinuses, digestion, and adrenals.

I'm doing the pro adjuster method of chiro therapy and so far, so good. I am sore, but that is expected as out of whack I am.

Look here to see what part of your spinal nerves connect to what part of your body. As you can see, mid-back (T-11 ) is connected to your adrenals, but know that that if you are out of whack elsewhere it can still have an effect on other parts of your spine. Everything is connected and can be related due to that connection.

If anyone chooses to go the chiro therapy route, be sure to up your parsley and astragalus for the detox support as well as for great support for the adrenals. IN fact, just for the adrenal support alone we all ought to have a good daily dose of these herbs, esp. the parsley which also supports the thyroid.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jeanne D'Arc* 

1. Waking up feeling EXTREMELY sleep deprived. Even after
8 or close to 8 hours of sleep i can hardly get out of bed
because i feel like ive hardly slept at all. If I get less than
8 hours omg i swear i will die, it literally feels like i will die.

3. Noise sensitivity, and sometimes wake up in the middle of
the night, if I am particularly unlucky ( esp around my cycle)
It will take me hours to fall back asleep. This absolutely
kills me.

I have no money right now and cannot afford to see a professional.


As soon as you can afford it, you need a sleep study and some testing for your cortisol levels am and pm. you are probably having sleep problems from your cortisol rising and falling, and that also contributes to the racing heart and panic attacks in the daytime, the cortisol falls, adrenaline rushes and you feel panicked.

When I had a sleep study, they found that I wasn't getting to the REM state, so I was walking around in a state of constant exhaustion. You may need to take something to help you stay asleep while you treat your adrenals.


----------



## Manonash

Jeanne: You sound a lot like me. I found these sites quite helpful:

http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp

http://www.drrind.com/scorecard.asp#intro

http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp

http://www.tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html

http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_do..._fatigue.cfm#3

I LOVE the stopthethyroidmadness site, but apparently the forum is closed to new posting?

Also, what do you know about cortisol steal during pg? Are there long term concenquences for the children? I feel this may have been me. I felt GREAT during pg -- almost all my symptoms gone.

I can't tell you how excited I am to have discovered this AF thing. Thank you so much for this thread!


----------



## bigeyes

the forum is closed to new posting, but there is a link to another forum.

I think it's realthyroidhelp.com


----------



## Periwinkle

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manonash* 
http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp

WOW. Thank you for this. The adrenal column is where I fall 90% of it. It's uncanny. Even things like "wakes 2-4am", and "vertical wrinkles on finger pads" and "tends to feel lightheaded upon getting up" (I have serious problems with this and my blood pressure is like 100/55 on a good day) - weird.

I kind of thought after dropping the excess weight this past year and stopping eating grains/sugars I was good. SO MANY of my health problems have gone away (irregular periods, acne, etc.) - the PCOS-like symptoms especially. So I thought if I just keep this up I'll have perfect health. Now I'm not so sure. I wonder if I have some actual healing to do, kwim?

I'm so glad I found this thread.


----------



## Jeanne D'Arc

Sadly cannot afford sleep study, the best i could do is get
the salivary panel by Canary club, but i cant even do that
now.

I know Drenamin is a good supplement for severe AF. I just
have not been taking much of it, maybe 1 pill, or 2 here and
there. I know it is important i know how low it is, but i simply
have no money









I do have access to some good supplements but I didnt realize
it was my adrenals until recently! I know the lyme plays a part
in all this and is probably stressing them out more.

I do have some Mannatonin ( melatonin/valerian supp) for
sleeping, though i have been trying NOT to take it.
The sleep distruption gets worse around ovulation, is
there a reason for that?

http://ezinearticles.com/?Adrenal-Burnout&id=502938

One of the main symptoms of Adrenal Burnout is waking up
after 8-10 hours of sleep feeling like you hardly slept.

Gawd this is awful, does it get better? I'll probably have
a harder time treating them cuz i have lyme....crap.


----------



## pia

Has anyone tried acupuncture to stimulate the adrenal gland??

My fog-brain does not allow me to remember whether anyone has written anything about it before.









Ps - thanks for the symtoms-matrix, Manonash.







Very useful - I fit right into the "adrenal category"!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jeanne D'Arc* 

Sadly cannot afford sleep study, the best i could do is get
the salivary panel by Canary club, but i cant even do that
now.

I know Drenamin is a good supplement for severe AF. I just
have not been taking much of it, maybe 1 pill, or 2 here and
there. I know it is important i know how low it is, but i simply
have no money









I do have access to some good supplements but I didnt realize
it was my adrenals until recently! I know the lyme plays a part
in all this and is probably stressing them out more.

I do have some Mannatonin ( melatonin/valerian supp) for
sleeping, though i have been trying NOT to take it.
The sleep distruption gets worse around ovulation, is
there a reason for that?

http://ezinearticles.com/?Adrenal-Burnout&id=502938

One of the main symptoms of Adrenal Burnout is waking up
after 8-10 hours of sleep feeling like you hardly slept.

Gawd this is awful, does it get better? I'll probably have
a harder time treating them cuz i have lyme....crap.









I don't know about ovulation, but for me all my hormones were seriously out of whack. I started using a progesterone cream and a lot of my problems went away because I apparently had too much estrogen, and I forget what the relationship is to cortisol, but it _is_ related somehow. In the few months that I've been taking hydrocortisone and using progesterone I've noticed a huge difference in the anxiety and adrenaline rushes. I use a time released melatonin I got for less than $5 and it seems to be helping with the sleep. I am still on my prescription but I've lowered it to half of what the doc prescribed and so far no ill effects since I added the time released melatonin with the HC and progesterone.

Have you joined the natural thyroid hormones adrenals group on yahoo? even if you don't think you have any problems with your thyroid you may want to join and just read. They have a lot of valuable info. There is also a womens hormones group that may be of use to you.

Keep googling and reading. There are a lot of things you can try even if you can't find a cooperative doc or pay for a lot of tests.


----------



## tanyamarie

MommyHawk - Just wanted to tell you that your wording describes to a "T" how my adrenal fatigue has felt, particularly when I am hurried (ie. trying/rushing out the door) or have needed to make some sudden exertion. I may just borrow your wording the next time my hubby says, "What's wrong?" I've often just said, my whole body feels very vulnerable and unpredictable at the moment!! Take the collective advice from this thread. Hope it's helpful. I sympathize and empathize


----------



## Jeanne D'Arc

I also fit into the adrenal catergory HIGH.

I do have Thyroid symptoms as well and i did join that group.
I read if you adrenals are bad...so is your thyroid.

So far im just on Drenamin, i have heard really great reviews
on it from other Adrenal sufferers. I will be getting on some
Plus soon, it is a Mannatech supplement, with wild yam
and bound amino acids. Does Wild yam make Progesterone?

Gawd i feel awful. I know this cant JUST be my lyme, there
is something majorly out of whack in my body, my instincts
are that they are primarly hormonal and partially detox,
i really need to balance the 'mones and detox my body.

ughh..

If my hubbie gets this new job ill be able to pay for a salivary panel.
I heard you have to go off all hormone suppport supps to do that?
oh NO!

hehe Adrenal Burnout smilie ----->


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NocturnalDaze* 

Both Thyroid and Armour are replacing what your body needs. If you don't take HC during pregnancy then you will take cortisol away from your baby.


My poor babies must not have much in the way of cortisol.







Dd1 is already showing multiple signs of AF.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
Metasequoia... just read your initial post - I've missed this thread somehow







- and I'm really curious, especially about the cutting out caffeine and eating lots of salt angle. I CRAVE lots of salt. I heavily salt everything (I use "RealSalt"). You'd think I didn't taste it. I've always wondered if I'm self-medicating.







I drink tons of coffee too and have been wondering how this is impacting me. I also notice I'm rarely thirsty.

Subbing and I'm going to try to catch-up on this thread.

(p.s., let's get together! You can tell me how to cut out coffee and I can tell you how to avoid grains!







What a fun playgroup! Salt water and hard-boiled eggs for everyone! Wheee!) lol

Definitely try cutting out caffeine! It's soooo hard on the adrenals. I heavily salt everything too - it's too bad Americans have been brainwashed with the "salt is bad!" myth, salt is *vital*! I let my kids use as much salt as they'd like (after I salt their food to begin with.) We use both Celtic Sea Salt (I've read that's the best of the best) & I just bought some pretty pinkish Redmond's yesterday just for a little something different.

The only grains I'm eating are millet & quinoa, oh and rice, but I don't really think of that as a grain.

*Jeanne D'Arc*, Lyme is how I ended up crashing into AF. I had my thrid child, my son, in March of 2006. When he was about 6 weeks old, I started having achey knees (didn't think of the fact that I wore him constantly on my front & he was *heavy.* I started Googling & came up with Lyme. I convinced myself I had it, started posting on Lymenet - biggest mistake of my life. I read how Lyme can be transmitted through pregnancy & bfing while I was breastfeeding my newborn & my 3 year old Dd2. I couldn't wean, it went against everything I knew. I ended up weaning Dd2 at 3.5 years just in case but continued to nurse Ds. I remember laying in my bed, sobbing while I nursed him, my skin burning all over my body from the excess cortisol. I have never, ever been so stressed in my entire life.







Every cry Ds made had to be Lyme, every time Dd2 said something hurt, it had to be Lyme, I was a wreck.

Anywho, long story short, I never did get a conclusive answer about the Lyme. I don't have joint pain anymore, never had fatigue. I found a fantabulous naturopath who saved my life, I'm convinced of it. I kept saying, "what about Lyme??" and he said, "*even my Lyme patients won't heal until they heal their adrenals."* I'm sure it works both ways, your adrenals are no doubt shot because of the physical stress of the Lyme. I think treating the Lyme while simultaneously supporting your adrenals would benefit you. It's hard to say what you need since you don't know if you have too much cortisol or not enough - it all depends what stage you're in. My guess would be not enough cortisol, but who knows for sure.

I hope your DH gets the job so you can do the ASI so you know where to start. In teh meantime, as long as you don't hve high BP, you could consume *a lot* of high quality salt, cut out caffeine, cut out potassium rich foods & add in some licorice - the one that isn't de-glycchorized (or whatever it is.) Vitamin c is big too & it makes me wonder if the salt-c treatment for Lyme works because the salt & c are healing the adrenals.


----------



## Jeanne D'Arc

Sadly i cannot consume Ginseng, Licorice or Mega doses ( even
small doses ) of B complex.

It gives me horrible panic attacks and burns up my Adrenals even more.
There was a website i saw which said that is not uncommon in Adrenal
patients.

Even my Drenamin glandular gave me a 2 hour panic attack last night,
course i took more than i am used to...go slow i guess..right?

I also thought the adrenals need a certain _kind_ of vitamin C...
correct?

I am sure Adrenal burnout is a predominant symptom in many
Lyme patients.


----------



## reeseccup

look into Spirulina as an option, perhaps.


----------



## Periwinkle

Is it the sodium or the other minerals? Why is salt so important? Is it a correct assumption that you can eat as much as you want and it won't be hard on your kidneys & adrenals?

Thx!


----------



## Jeanne D'Arc

Ugh my drenamin is making me nervous now..









Why?

I even lowered the dose down ALLOT. I only took one pill.
I dont want to hurt my adrenals more, but they need support! ;(

I guess i could try half a pill at a time on a full stomach tomorrow...erghh


----------



## BeingMe

What do I need to know about switching from isocort to HC?? Or is there something better to switch to?


----------



## unlegal

:


----------



## reeseccup

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
Is it the sodium or the other minerals? Why is salt so important? Is it a correct assumption that you can eat as much as you want and it won't be hard on your kidneys & adrenals?

Thx!


It's the trace minerals and esp. the iodine in the salt, but not just any ol' table salt though. I prefer unrefined Celtic Sea Salt, due to the _NATURAL_ source of iodine.

Also seaweed (Norwegian, Dulse, and Bladderwrack are what seems to be the best choices) will provide natural iodine and trace minerals that is needed to support, normalize and balance the adrenals and thyroid. If you can, fresh sea fish as well for this very reason.


----------



## reeseccup

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jeanne D'Arc* 

Ugh my drenamin is making me nervous now..









Why?


I hope you get things worked out soon, sorry, not much help here.


----------



## Pookietooth

I can't take hydrocortisone because I tested positive for TB and didn't do the nine months of nasty antibiotics. Are there any other options?


----------



## reeseccup

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
I can't take hydrocortisone because I tested positive for TB and didn't do the nine months of nasty antibiotics. Are there any other options?

Using real *licorice* will help, it works for adrenal exhaustion, is an anti-inflammatory and a cortisone replacement; it induces the adrenal to produce larger amounts of cortisone and aldosterone.

Also adding *Astragalus* supports the adrenals and *Parsley* helps in adrenal malfunction.


----------



## Manonash

It's a lot the sodium, because AFers tend to be salt wasters

just getting over a tummy bug -- could definitely see my adrenals at work there (and thyroid). DD and DH had it too, all the same day







. We're doing better now though. Feel like we've been hit by a truck though. My pulse went up and is still up and my temp went up and it felt like my body was having to work pretty hard to do it. Now that is seems to mostly have the infection licked, my histamine levels are up and my throat feels swollen (hard to swallow). I so fit many of the hypothyroid symptoms too. If I do have hypo, I sure hope I can fix it by fixing the adrenals. I really don't want to have to take thyroid meds.

I also read that there is a connection between flourine and hypo. Pretty interesting stuff. Apparently, it takes the place of iodine therefore setting up a hypo situation. I had no idea there was so much flouride in our food and such.

Does anyone know if tooth pain is a symptom of hypo. I know that late tooth eruption and such can be a symptom, but not sure about the tooth pain.

Ok, I have some questions about carbohydrate digestion. i have major problems with it. Seems I don't tolerate either complex carbs or simple ones, so what am I to do? I can't go too low carb, it nauseates me. If I eat complex carbs in the adrenal fatigue diet as Dr. Diana Schwarzbein lays out, I get really constipated and tired and it messes up my menstrual cycle (well, when I had one anyway). If I follow SCD (simple carbs only), I get horrible hypoglycemia, but my menstrual cycles improve. I'm thinking I need to follow the AF diet of complex carbs in small doses throughout the day, and then give it time. I don't think I digest complex carbs that well. Now whether it is because of lower amylase levels or bacterial overgrowth or what I do not know. i digest simple carbs just fine, but they mess with my blood sugar too badly thus making AF worse. I'm so confused.

I think I may have found a doc. Dr. Betsy Owens in Dallas. I've seen her mentioned on STTM site. I wonder will they let me join the adrenal forum if I'm not on Armour. The site said it was for people on thyroid meds.

Here's a great link


----------



## MommyHawk

ok, taking salt tablets and pouring on the salt...and I seem to feel a lot better...what is the deal?!?! is salt the cure? should I still see an endo or just keep up with the salt? I still have occasional waves of 'whoa' feeling, like I'm not going to faint, but loose consciousness (kwim?) I have to blink hard to snap out of it and then I drink tons of H2O and do more salt.

any advice?

all my blood tests say that I am in perfect health...although, this doesn't FEEL like perfect health...


----------



## BeingMe

Anyone heard of or use D-Ribose????


----------



## Manonash

MommyHawk: I'm really looking for a physician. The thyroid is almost always involved in AF, and I want all this stuff monitored and put together. Now finding a competent physician, well..... that's usually an oxymoron. I've been doing some looking around online for physicians who prescribe Armour (because they are sometimes more open minded) and looking up the names of Functional Medicine practitioners in my area with ones who were dedicated to it, not just took the training course. The couple I've found that I want to investigate are three hours from me, but that's ok. Worth it! I'm also trying to be careful too, because I don't want to get involved with a quack or charletain either. (I'm especially leary of the ones with big fancy clinics that sell their own supplements). When we improve in one area, our hormones shift in another, so this can get tricky if we are severely AF. I found that many of these physicians have websites and you can kinda get a feel for them by what they say there as well as some of them are mentioned by others online, so i just look them up on Google. I also use Val and Bob as a resource from STTM. Val really seems to know her stuff. You can find her now at the Adrenal/Thyroid yahoo group linked from the STTM homepage (Talk to others link). Blood tests will probably read normal for most of us. That's why we need someone who can interpret the results for real without relying on normal ranges listed with the results. And, for AF, you'll want a saliva test of 4x a day cortisol, and DHEA. I think there are a couple of other tests with that, but I don't remember what. Also, bloodwork, Thyroid function with TSH, free T3, free T4, and antibodies. The "free" part makes a difference. Also, some like to get potassium and sodium levels as well. There are plenty of others that may be beneficial to add, but those seem to be pretty standard. There's a lot of information on testing at Stop the Thyroid Madness.

I'm starting to worry about this whole thyroid thing now. Last night my sinuses started draining a lot and my throat kinda swelled, making swallowing feel kinda funny. It's happened many times before, and I've always attributed this to allergies, but now I think the swelling is my thyroid gland. It always happens after I overload on sugar (even the good fruit kind) or have a stress of some kind like illness. I know that the throid is inextricably linked with our adrenals. What I don't know is if the throid caused the adrenal problems or the other way around. Dr. Mercola says adrenal problems can cause hypoT, but others say the hypo is what causes the adrenal stress. Hmmmmm. I just don't like the idea of being on thyroid meds all my life, so now, without a diagnosis, I've been researching natural cures to hypoT







LOL. Run into info on flouride and mercury poisoning, so now am obsessing about my mouth full of hg and what it would take to remove them. So, I'm up at 5:30 obsessing about it







.

I'm getting really excited to take some tests. If I can't get in with one of the docs I've found soon, I'm gonna order them myself.

I'm getting really frustrated with eating. Seems nothing sits right with me. I've dropped SCD as it was making me crazy this time. Now, if I can only figure out what won't make my tummy feel all heavy and yucky.

Anyone else here obsessive/compulsive? Can't you tell from my long posts







? I want to figure out every piece of my symptom puzzle, so I just feel further confirmed I'm on the right track.

Thanks for letting me vent all this here. I think hubby is wearing thin.


----------



## nichole

How much B5 are you guys taking? Should I wait until I get my adrenal fatigue results to start that? My multi only has 25 mg. I eat eggs several days a week, but sometimes I just have to fry them, b/c there are only so many hard boiled eggs I can stand.


----------



## Manonash

Anyone read about the links between mercury poisoning and hypothyroid? I've been doing some reading this morning about hg poisoning and am beginning to think this may be me. ALL the nerve pain I have and most muscle twitching is on the left side and almost all the twitching is facial. I have a tooth that is crowned ,and under it is amalgam, on the left upper side. I believe the tooth under the amalgam is cracked as I have had pain in that tooth for about 10yrs now - about the same time as the neuropathy started and my symptoms of food intolerances started to get bad and the lichen planus started. Hg can have hypoT effects and chronic ht can cause adrenal exhaustion.


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manonash* 
Anyone read about the links between mercury poisoning and hypothyroid? I've been doing some reading this morning about hg poisoning and am beginning to think this may be me. ALL the nerve pain I have and most muscle twitching is on the left side and almost all the twitching is facial. I have a tooth that is crowned ,and under it is amalgam, on the left upper side. I believe the tooth under the amalgam is cracked as I have had pain in that tooth for about 10yrs now - about the same time as the neuropathy started and my symptoms of food intolerances started to get bad and the lichen planus started. Hg can have hypoT effects and chronic ht can cause adrenal exhaustion.

/yes, my dr wants me to get my amalgams out. /i won't be able to do that for a while b/c ds is still nursing. Also i'm reading about chelation, but find it overwhelming. For now, I'm eating as many fruits and veggies as possible and avoiding gluten and casein.


----------



## Jeanne D'Arc

Anyone start waking up more rested after Adrenal support treatment?

I swear my tolerance to sleep is abominable! 7-8 hours of sleep
feels like 5!!


----------



## MommyHawk

would seeing a naturopath / homeopath be a good thing with someone with AF or just an endo?


----------



## Manonash

http://herballure.com/ubbthreads/sho...b=5&o=&fpart=1
Thought this was interesting. Some say to be careful about taking advice from STTM.

MH: I'm looking for a doctor in Functional medicine. I'm going to try to contact some this week. I found that some had reviews online which was helpful. I want to make sure I someone who truly has done their research and is truly into integrative approaches. I'm leary of anyone trying to sell me products, too.


----------



## Mama~Love

Hello everyone,

I think I belong here. I've been reading up on hypothyroidism lately, and I have numerous symptoms of it. I've checked the STTM list, and I have almost all of them. My BBT is usually between 94-96°F each morning.

What do I do now? Get tested? Which ones? I don't know where to start.

Thanks!


----------



## Meg_s

Just a question.. I intend to see someone about this soon, but have done a lot of research and am taking many steps to feel better. A big deal seems to be sleep. What do you do if you can't sleep? My first son was a non sleeper, my 2nd is better, but he's 8 mos old and we share a bed. I don't get much sleep, and what I do get is very interrupted. So now what? I can't kick him out and ignore him, do I just wait until he gets bigger...? My 2 1/4 year old still wakes twice per night for a long period of time, so I don't forsee getting GOOD sleep in the next 3 years.







Does that mean I can't fix this?


----------



## thefragile7393

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg_s* 
Just a question.. I intend to see someone about this soon, but have done a lot of research and am taking many steps to feel better. A big deal seems to be sleep. What do you do if you can't sleep? My first son was a non sleeper, my 2nd is better, but he's 8 mos old and we share a bed. I don't get much sleep, and what I do get is very interrupted. So now what? I can't kick him out and ignore him, do I just wait until he gets bigger...? My 2 1/4 year old still wakes twice per night for a long period of time, so I don't forsee getting GOOD sleep in the next 3 years.







Does that mean I can't fix this?

5-H GABA, GABA, Phosphatidylserine, melatonin, passion flower, valerian root, hops, and kava kava could help....not necessarily ALL of those at the same time but here and there could work.


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meg_s* 
Just a question.. I intend to see someone about this soon, but have done a lot of research and am taking many steps to feel better. A big deal seems to be sleep. What do you do if you can't sleep? My first son was a non sleeper, my 2nd is better, but he's 8 mos old and we share a bed. I don't get much sleep, and what I do get is very interrupted. So now what? I can't kick him out and ignore him, do I just wait until he gets bigger...? My 2 1/4 year old still wakes twice per night for a long period of time, so I don't forsee getting GOOD sleep in the next 3 years.







Does that mean I can't fix this?

I'm having the same problem. I try to take naps when dh takes them out. Also I try to exercise for maybe 15 minutes a day.


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefragile7393* 
5-H GABA, GABA, Phosphatidylserine, melatonin, passion flower, valerian root, hops, and kava kava could help....not necessarily ALL of those at the same time but here and there could work.

Is she supposed to give these to the 8mo or what? I'm confused. Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## BeingMe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyHawk* 
would seeing a naturopath / homeopath be a good thing with someone with AF or just an endo?

I think a naturopath would be much better than an endo. Endo is most likely gonna put you on synthetics. Plus a good naturopath will take many other things into consideration such as mental issues and can prescribe a homeopathic remedy as well. Where are you located, maybe someone here has a good recommendation. You can also go under DFinding Your Tribe, click on your State and post a question there for a good refferal.


----------



## thefragile7393

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan* 
I think a naturopath would be much better than an endo. Endo is most likely gonna put you on synthetics. Plus a good naturopath will take many other things into consideration such as mental issues and can prescribe a homeopathic remedy as well. Where are you located, maybe someone here has a good recommendation. You can also go under DFinding Your Tribe, click on your State and post a question there for a good refferal.

I think that there has to be good endos out there somewhere....at least I hope there are....but I have gone to both and the endo was a quack who told me I needed to up my anti-depressents







:







:







:







:







: Then she didn't bother to call me with my results or even send me a card...I found out the results from looking at my chart at my midwife's office and it turns out I was borderline hypothyroid! Most docs won't do much with this...but my naturopath did, and now combined with the stuff for thyroid and adrenal I feel better then I have in years.


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyofmany* 
Hello everyone,

I think I belong here. I've been reading up on hypothyroidism lately, and I have numerous symptoms of it. I've checked the STTM list, and I have almost all of them. My BBT is usually between 94-96°F each morning.

What do I do now? Get tested? Which ones? I don't know where to start.

Thanks!

You could start with more self tests to try to determine low thyroid and/or low adrenals:
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

If you decide you need tests, you can obviously ask your md to order you a thyroid panel and make sure it includes:

* TSH
* Free T4 and Free T3 (note the word "free")
* Thyroid Antibodies (anti-TPO and TgAb. YOU NEED BOTH.)
* Reverse T3

If you want to order the tests yourself
diagnos-techs just added a serum thyroid panel to their saliva panel for the same price - which is a good deal imo.

This kit will give you cortisol levels (to determine adrenal function) done by saliva testing, as well as thyroid panel done by blood - they send you a tube and you take it to a blood lab w the paperwork and the lab draws yr blood and gives you the tube to send in w/ yr saliva.
It also includes the sex homones as well.

You can order it at canaryclub.org.

HTH


----------



## BeingMe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
You could start with more self tests to try to determine low thyroid and/or low adrenals:
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

If you decide you need tests, you can obviously ask your md to order you a thyroid panel and make sure it includes:

* TSH
* Free T4 and Free T3 (note the word "free")
* Thyroid Antibodies (anti-TPO and TgAb. YOU NEED BOTH.)
* Reverse T3

If you want to order the tests yourself
diagnos-techs just added a serum thyroid panel to their saliva panel for the same price - which is a good deal imo.

This kit will give you cortisol levels (to determine adrenal function) done by saliva testing, as well as thyroid panel done by blood - they send you a tube and you take it to a blood lab w the paperwork and the lab draws yr blood and gives you the tube to send in w/ yr saliva.
It also includes the sex homones as well.

You can order it at canaryclub.org.

HTH


I ordered the ZRT test from canary club and the thyroid part only includes: TSH, Free T3 and T4, and TPO. Is this enough, and what will I be missing.


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan* 
I ordered the ZRT test from canary club and the thyroid part only includes: TSH, Free T3 and T4, and TPO. Is this enough, and what will I be missing.

Is the ZRT thyroid panel a blood serum? I forget.
If so, that sounds fine.
From that you'll be able to tell your thyroid levels as well as detect any thyroid antibodies to see if you have thyroiditis, (Hashimoto's)


----------



## Mama~Love

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
You could start with more self tests to try to determine low thyroid and/or low adrenals:
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

If you decide you need tests, you can obviously ask your md to order you a thyroid panel and make sure it includes:

* TSH
* Free T4 and Free T3 (note the word "free")
* Thyroid Antibodies (anti-TPO and TgAb. YOU NEED BOTH.)
* Reverse T3

If you want to order the tests yourself
diagnos-techs just added a serum thyroid panel to their saliva panel for the same price - which is a good deal imo.

This kit will give you cortisol levels (to determine adrenal function) done by saliva testing, as well as thyroid panel done by blood - they send you a tube and you take it to a blood lab w the paperwork and the lab draws yr blood and gives you the tube to send in w/ yr saliva.
It also includes the sex homones as well.

You can order it at canaryclub.org.

HTH

Thank you so much! That will definitely help me know where to start. Now maybe I can get on the road to recovery.


----------



## BeingMe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
Is the ZRT thyroid panel a blood serum? I forget.
If so, that sounds fine.
From that you'll be able to tell your thyroid levels as well as detect any thyroid antibodies to see if you have thyroiditis, (Hashimoto's)

Thank you. It's the blood spot, is that serum??


----------



## Brookesmom

I haven't but it sounds intriguing. I have just been reading up on EFT (emotional freedom technique) and how it can heal pains and emotional disturbances in minutes through basically tapping on acupuncture points. I'm going to try that....

Man, I've been in bed 9- 9 1/2 hours every night and still so tired when I wake up. Uggh... i wonder if it will help when DS completely nightweans....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pia* 
Has anyone tried acupuncture to stimulate the adrenal gland??

My fog-brain does not allow me to remember whether anyone has written anything about it before.


----------



## reeseccup

Well, this may seem like small potatoes, but for me it's a big deal.

I've been doing the pro-adjuster chiro, started therapy what, nearly 2 weeks ago.

Yesterday I felt so good, I mean I felt GOOD. I wanted to clean my house, and so I got my living room done, did some windows and then the pain set in, so I stopped. Then last night I got the urge again, and I scrubed, not just a quickie either, the kitchen floor. Alas, I paid for it today at the dr.'s but, it felt so good to want to do it and feeling up to doing it. I was told not to do that again until they tell me to







gotta love that one, I have an excuse from the dr. not to clean my house







.

I'm sore, but I'm feeling better. I'm glad I'm going this route, since I needed to be fixed anyway, but I think this will help even more than I thought.

BTW, HI everyone, I've been reading, but haven't had much to say.


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brookesmom* 
I haven't but it sounds intriguing. I have just been reading up on EFT (emotional freedom technique) and how it can heal pains and emotional disturbances in minutes through basically tapping on acupuncture points. I'm going to try that....

Man, I've been in bed 9- 9 1/2 hours every night and still so tired when I wake up. Uggh... i wonder if it will help when DS completely nightweans....

I felt like a DIFFERENT PERSON when my first son nightweaned. He was only waking up 2-3 times, too. This baby wakes up a gazillion times. I can't wait to sleep through the night. I know it will really help my mood and stamina.


----------



## Metasequoia

I was just cruising around Tom Cowan's site (fourfold path to healing):

Quote:

The cause of polymyalgia is unknown in conventional medicine. It is treated with high doses of the anti-inflammatory, adrenal hormone prednisone. As our questioner points out, the relief with prednisone is very quick, often within hours, and patients are usually grateful for this seemingly miraculous treatment. The difficulty with prednisone, of course, is not getting on it, but getting off it. Taking prednisone for prolonged periods of time, including the time needed to treat polymyalgia, will suppress the adrenal glands so much that it makes it very difficult to come off these medications. I've seen it take two years or more to successfully wean a patient off prednisone. During that time the well-known side effects of prednisone come into play. These include diabetes, cataracts, stomach ulcer, and many more. Clearly, another approach to this illness is needed.

Whenever a steroid drug like prednisone makes a condition better, at least temporarily, we can conclude that a basic cause of the condition is poor adrenal function.
Linky

And this paragraph about cortisone & prednisone - does this apply to cortisol supplements like cortef?

Quote:

The side effects of cortisone, prednisone, and similar drugs are legendary. They include diabetes, osteoporosis, edema of the face, mood swings, stomach ulcers and, very importantly, adrenal suppression. In other words, your own adrenal glands shut off their production of these valuable hormones. Why not, since they essentially have been "told" by the prednisone that the adrenals are no longer needed. This bargain, then, becomes a nightmare as the effectiveness of the drugs wears off, side effects become more serious and the patient is unable to stop taking the medication.
Linky

And wowza, at least I'm on the right path according to Dr. Cowan:

Quote:

To do this, we refer to some basic physiology. First, we are dealing with the adrenal cortex, not the medulla (which makes adrenaline). The hormones that the adrenal cortex makes are all derived from our best friend - cholesterol. Yes, cholesterol is the precursor to all the valuable adrenal hormones that help us deal with stress, inflammation and trauma, and that help our body to heal. Therefore adrenal insufficiency (lack of adrenal cortical hormones) is a fat deficiency. So the first step is simple and logical: Eat more fat, especially cholesterol-rich animal fat. One of these fats should be cod liver oil to supply vitamin A. The adrenal cortex cannot make adrenal hormones out of cholesterol without vitamin A.
Same link as above.


----------



## queenvavee

Hi everyone. I wanted to introduce a bit before I began posting or anything.
Currently a mom with adrenal fatigue and hypothyroid. I have a child who also has the same symptoms. Saliva testing confirmed dd's adrenal fatigue.
I have been using organic glandulars to treat myself and dd. I am always interested in how others are managing and what they have found useful.
I have not found endo's to be useful in my area. Most seem to think adrenal fatigue is rare. No surprise there...

I have chosen not use synthetic like prednisone due to the side effects at this point. And what I have read on STTM. We are also organic, holistic.
I guess...







hello everyone!


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenvavee* 
Currently a mom with adrenal fatigue and hypothyroid. I have a child who also has the same symptoms. Saliva testing confirmed dd's adrenal fatigue.

May I ask how old your dd is, and what her symptoms are/were?


----------



## Gabrielle's Mom

subbing to this thread... and a ?

I have been on prednisone long term. I am showing signs of adrenal issues. I am sure my naturopath will check me out fully, but I haven't yet started to wean prednisone. I have a full month to go with eliminating all foods that I'm allergic/intolerant to and she wants me feeling as good as I can be before weaning. Anyone here wean from prednisone? I want off of it NOW but I know I have to go slow. I wish I had dealt with a naturopath/md a long time ago--she's a chiro, md and naturopath and she's already done amazing things for me in the recommendations she's given me.

Anyway, mind if I hang out here? I need to read it all... maybe when kids are in bed.

edited to add--naturopath said the stuff I am on is good for adrenal support, but ive read about adrenal cortex supplements too, suppose I need to get more off pred for this? she said nothing additional is necessary at this time.


----------



## Maggi315

Hi, I can't believe I'm not subscribed to this thread. I haven't read through it all, I will work on that over the next few days.

I have been diagnosed with a pituitary tumor, which we found out was shutting down my cortisol production and in essence shutting down my adrenals. The doctor told me he thought the adrenals themselves are OK, but that because of the pituitary not sending out the signals, I don't produce the cortisol. However, I feel that I have had adrenal fatigue for years and that the adrenals aren't functioning great regardless of the tumor.

so I will be back later....


----------



## Manonash

Quote:

/yes, my dr wants me to get my amalgams out. /i won't be able to do that for a while b/c ds is still nursing. Also i'm reading about chelation, but find it overwhelming. For now, I'm eating as many fruits and veggies as possible and avoiding gluten and casein.
__________________

This is me too. Plus, the mega$$$ it costs. I have found a dentist I want to check out. I really want mine out.

I stopped the Specific Carbohydrate Diet and have headed in the opposite direction. Way fewer simple carbs and more complex ones, always with a protein and fat at least. It seems to have leveled out my BS. I did have a reaction today I haven't had in ages though. I ate some oatmeal with PB this morning and had fish and rice for lunch. Right after lunch, I got relaxed and sleepy and just dozed off on the couch. I'm usually wired and tired, but not sleepy. I wonder did I do something wrong, or was that my adrenals "resting".

I'm way too much of a worrywart! Now I'm worried I have lyme or some other infectious somethin or other too. I have been bitten by a tick in the last 10yrs, but I didn't show the classic symptoms in the usual time given. I also had a tiny, partial bullseye mark around a two-holed bite several months ago. I do have joint pain that comes and goes, but I had had that before the bite and it seems to be affected by carbohydrates and food. The testing for lyme just stinks though, and I hate the idea of being on ABs for extended periods. I'm overwhelmed with all this info.

I read the Poesnecker book. Interesting. I'm also reading Wilson's book, but not getting a lot out of it. A little, but not much more than I've gotten reading online.

I'm getting really excited to see this new doc I found in Dallas. I have such high hopes....... Lotsa tests and maybe finally some help and guidance. I'm tired of all this self diagnosis.


----------



## queenvavee

My dd is 12 and we began seeing problem and changes in behavior about age 10 that seemed out of character for her. She had become depressed, moody, anxious, and would completely over react to everything. She was sensitive to light, sound, noises, touch, people being near her..just about everything. She was also not getting up in the am very well and could not go to sleep at night.
By age 11 she was having anxiety attacks, fear of things going wrong, more depression, just a miserable kid over all. At first I had no idea what was going on. I knew she had had a metal problem from her hair test. She had 5 amalgam fillings in her baby teeth, of which were removed at age 9. And of course her vaccines...anyway. I was researching symptoms of thyroid for myself and came across the STTM site. When I read the adrenal stuff, that was us totally. At this point she has started putting on weight like crazy. She gained 25 pounds in just that year. This was not normal for her. She usually gains 3-5 a year along with growing an inch or two.
I charted her body temps like the site says. She was always below normal and fluctuating through the day. I checked her pupils for reactivity to light, and she failed that test too. With her anxiety getting worse, and getting panicky all the time, I took a plunge and began adrenal cortex for her. This calmed her down within days. No more panic, reduced anxiety, less sensitive to noises, etc. All the symptoms were lessened, some went away. She began waking up at 7 or 8 am and going to bed before 11pm. I ran the saliva panel because when we talked to the pediatrician about her weight gain and depression and other thyroid symptoms..all they did was run a TSH. The results were 3.04. They said it was borderline high and they would recheck in 6 months. I didn't like that answer. Since just about everyone in our family is hypo...we did the test. Now we are going to see an Integrative Pediatrician for a consult about her endocrine problems. I have no clue what they will say. I know docs don't like to treat adults let alone kids...
If she misses her adrenal cortex...I can tell. She starts ranting, raving, yelling, blowing up over things, out of control..


----------



## Mama~Love

More questions from me.

I have a doctor's appointment on Tuesday, and I was wondering what I should bring with me (if anything), and what specifically I should ask him about. I was going to bring the list of symptoms from STTM, and my log of temps I've taken as well (not many, but enough; range is between 94.6 - 97.1).

Anything else?

Thanks!


----------



## quelindo

double post...lousy browser


----------



## quelindo

Wow, thanks queenvavee, for your post. Your daughter is truly lucky to have you as her mother.

Sorry if this is obvious or has been discussed here already, but what is adrenal cortex?


----------



## Manonash

Thanks for sharing that queenvavee. You are such an observant mommy! I'm worried for daughter, too. I've read that daughters who are born to mothers with AF have a high likelyhood of having weak adrenals. DD is easy going (around DH







), but is a light sleeper. That could be other things though. I have 16 fillings and 8crowns. She's BFd and I'm sure she's getting quite a bit of mercury from me. As soon as she's done nursing, I'm looking into having my amalgams removed, and chelating. I'll probably see about having my BMilk tested too. I'm really not sure where to start with testing her and chelating there. The chelation thing scares me outta my wits, so I'm doubly cautious about doing that with her. I'm wanting to test her for all sorts of metals and teach her relaxation techniques from an early age.

I wonder how much healing I can do before getting these fillings out. I'm really overwhelmed too, because this is gonna cost as much as a really nice car.

RECIPES!!! I'm having a hard time coming up with quick to grab snacks. I'm not used to doing the complex carbs since I've been on simple ones for a few months now, and never was much of a cook before then. I want a power bar recipe. something balanced with protein and carbs and fat. I've looked online, but they all have protein powder in them. I want a better protein than that. I'm also interested in learning to cook with millet. something akin to cornbread and crackers. Looked online there too, and most of the recipes there contain wheat flour or rye or barley. I also need to avoid milk. Good on eggs though. Have y'all found any good AF healing recipes?


----------



## NocturnalDaze

I really like this cook book: http://www.amazon.com/Schwarzbein-Pr.../dp/1558746811

I don't really agree with some of her views in her book but her cookbook is great!


----------



## reeseccup

Manonash, I'm actually in the works of gathering best foods for us (AF people) and recipes to incorperate those foods into our diet. I'm also a mostly keep it supper simple type cook, but homemade isn't always super simple. Unfortunatly, I'm also heading into my busiest time of year.

Reese


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyofmany* 
More questions from me.

I have a doctor's appointment on Tuesday, and I was wondering what I should bring with me (if anything), and what specifically I should ask him about. I was going to bring the list of symptoms from STTM, and my log of temps I've taken as well (not many, but enough; range is between 94.6 - 97.1).

Anything else?

Thanks!

I would bring a list of MY symptoms. And a list of requested blood work you would like done.

If it were me I'd like the following:
* free T3--most people seem to feel best with this at the top of the range
* free T4--most people seem to feel best with this in the top 1/3 of the range
* TSH
* TPO (thyroid peroxidase antibodies)
* antithyroglobulin antibodies
* TSI antibodies
* ferritin--most people seem to do best with ferritin 70-80
* B-12--based on our research, this should be at least 800, and 1000 is better. If you've been supplementing B-12, then testing it directly may not be valid--the MMA will be a more accurate test.
* Vitamin D (make sure it's the test for 25(OH)D)

Good luck & keep us posted!


----------



## Mama~Love

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
I would bring a list of MY symptoms. And a list of requested blood work you would like done.

If it were me I'd like the following:
* free T3--most people seem to feel best with this at the top of the range
* free T4--most people seem to feel best with this in the top 1/3 of the range
* TSH
* TPO (thyroid peroxidase antibodies)
* antithyroglobulin antibodies
* TSI antibodies
* ferritin--most people seem to do best with ferritin 70-80
* B-12--based on our research, this should be at least 800, and 1000 is better. If you've been supplementing B-12, then testing it directly may not be valid--the MMA will be a more accurate test.
* Vitamin D (make sure it's the test for 25(OH)D)

Good luck & keep us posted!

Thank you! I was going to highlight what my symptoms were off that list so I wouldn't forget anything. I'll write down those tests too.

I'll post what I find out!


----------



## Manonash

Thanks for the recipe info.

Mommyofmany, good luck with your doc visit and your testing!

I made me an appt with a new doc in Dallas. I'm hopeful.

Maybe you all can help me figure out something. I felt mentally better when I was eating only simple carbs as my carb source, but I was getting bad hypoglycemia. When I switched to mostly complex carbs, I hit the floor. I got fatigued and weak and tired, but my pain symptoms are better as is the hypoglycemia. Was I just forcing more out of my adrenals with the simple ones? Do i have a candida problem that is playing a role here? (Probably, because candida often overgrows as a protective measure against high mercury levels -- it absorbs it). On the complex carbs is my brain happier, so my adrenals are resting? If so, then why is my brain fog worse? I'm sooooooooooo confused!


----------



## queenvavee

I am finding the set up of this board hard to reply to individual messages....

Anyway, adrenal cortex is an organic adrenal glandular (no cortisone) that provide nutrients and support so the adrenal glands can get a break as well as heal. It requires no doc you can order it online. Nutricology Adrenal Cortex it's called. Or Allergy Research Group Adrenal Cortex. This is what you'd want to use if you cannot get someone to treat you, or use cortisone. You can also use a supplement called IsoCort. This one has about 2mg of cortisone per dose, so it's very low but helpful, it also had the adrenal gland in it. For that one though see STTM for dosing it correctly.
Adrenal cortex you begin with one cap in the am see how you do. You can continue to add caps at noon and 3pm as you need them. Basically, you slowly work up to a dose that works for you and stay there. It has been tremendously helpful here, especially since these doctors can't seem to believe that we have adrenal fatigue or thyroid problems at all.

Ok next reply:""That could be other things though. I have 16 fillings and 8crowns. She's BFd and I'm sure she's getting quite a bit of mercury from me. As soon as she's done nursing, I'm looking into having my amalgams removed, and chelating. I'll probably see about having my BMilk tested too. I'm really not sure where to start with testing her and chelating there. The chelation thing scares me outta my wits, so I'm doubly cautious about doing that with her. I'm wanting to test her for all sorts of metals and teach her relaxation techniques from an early age.

I wonder how much healing I can do before getting these fillings out. I'm really overwhelmed too, because this is gonna cost as much as a really nice car.""

Yes it does cost a nice car. I paid $6500 to have my 12 amalgams removed. I had paid someone else $250 to remove the other two. I went to a wonderful doc who is specially trained to do this in PA. (email if you want to go to PA and I will tell you where). So I re-mortgaged my house to pay for it...don't care. It's the best thing I ever did. I was pretty sick before hand. My kids have a lot of Hg from me too.
Chelation...don't be afraid...what I suggest is going to a group called Mercury Autism (no your kid does not have to be autistic). They help with safe low dose chelation for children and adults. This is what we are doing and it's working great. Some chelation like IV's is scary and can be dangerous..these are usually the kind you read about. There is a better way.
A book called "Amalgam Illness" By Andrew Hall Cutler is a life saver. He recovered himself from his mercury poisoning from his fillings. And his protocol is currently helping tons of people..including us. So please don't be afraid to get well..it's just going to take time, learning and finding the safest way.
As for testing your child or yourself...Mercury-Autism or that book can help with that too. We did a simple hair test..Non invasive only costs about $75. You need to get the right one though..I can't go on too long on here or this post will be forever....but anyone can email me for more help.

Hang in there!
2 years amalgam free!!


----------



## queenvavee

From the low sugar symptoms try chromium picolinate with meals. Begin with one tablet at breakfast. See how it goes. This really got my symptoms under control.

Candida is something anyone with fillings, whose had vaccines, who's taken antibotics or birth control would have a problem with. Using daily probiotics can help control it somewhat. I also have to use antifungals like grapefruit seed extract when it gets bad. I have actually gotten rid of yeast infections that way. Now I have milder yeast issues than what I had before.
Of course, until all the metals are out...it will continue to be a problem, but you can be more comfortable in the meantime...


----------



## MommyHawk

went to an endo yesterday and she is going to draw blood, inject me with cortisol, and then an hour later draw blood...is this a good test to have done? or should I ask for a spit test also?

thanks


----------



## FrannieP

That's the ACTH stimulation test.
Here's an explanation of it:
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...opic.php?t=288

I would definitely also get the saliva tests. The stim test is good for determining if cortisol is low due to pituitary involvement or simply underactive adrenals. Saliva testing will measure the actual cortisol levels over a 24 hr period.
You can order them yourself for $109 from diagnos-techs thru canaryclub.org.


----------



## jlutgendorf

Hi, can I bug you all for a moment?









What would you say to these results?

All tests were taken on day 19 of my cycle, though I may have ovulated on day 18.

Saliva:
Estradol: 14 (HRT Target Range: 5-13 pg/ml; Follicular: 5-13 pg/ml; Luteal: 7-20 pg/ml)

Progesterone: 352 (HRT Target Range: 100-300 pg/ml; Follicular: 20-100 pg/ml; Luteal: 65-500 pg/ml)

Free Testosterone: 10 (Borderline: 5-7 pg/ml; Normal: 8-20 pg/ml)

Cortisol
7-8 am: 20 (13-24 nM)
11-12: 10 (5-10 nM)
4-5: 3 (3-8 nM)
11-mid: 1 (1-4 nM)

CB: 34 (23-42)

DHEA: 6 (Adults (M/F): 3-10 ng/ml)

I'm surprised by the cortisol readings as I have an impossible time getting up in the morning but can't fall asleep until after 2-4 am. In fact, I felt like death warmed over when getting the 7-8 am sample. That's earlier than I normally get up (8:30-9:30 if i'm lucky). But I've always been like that, and have several family members who are the same way, so maybe it's genetic?

I'm also posting over at Real Thyroid Help (thanks FrannieP!) but I wanted to get your opinions here as well.

Those ranges seem pretty normal to me, so I'm thinking that maybe my issues (no libido, fatigue, loss of motivation, concentration, depression, etc) aren't adrenal issues after all and I need to start looking in a different direction.

Thanks!

~Julia


----------



## queenvavee

how's your thyroid? Thyroid also causes these symptoms.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jlutgendorf* 
Hi, can I bug you all for a moment?









What would you say to these results?

All tests were taken on day 19 of my cycle, though I may have ovulated on day 18.

Saliva:
Estradol: 14 (HRT Target Range: 5-13 pg/ml; Follicular: 5-13 pg/ml; Luteal: 7-20 pg/ml)

Progesterone: 352 (HRT Target Range: 100-300 pg/ml; Follicular: 20-100 pg/ml; Luteal: 65-500 pg/ml)

Free Testosterone: 10 (Borderline: 5-7 pg/ml; Normal: 8-20 pg/ml)

Cortisol
7-8 am: 20 (13-24 nM)
11-12: 10 (5-10 nM)
4-5: 3 (3-8 nM)
11-mid: 1 (1-4 nM)

CB: 34 (23-42)

DHEA: 6 (Adults (M/F): 3-10 ng/ml)

I'm surprised by the cortisol readings as I have an impossible time getting up in the morning but can't fall asleep until after 2-4 am. In fact, I felt like death warmed over when getting the 7-8 am sample. That's earlier than I normally get up (8:30-9:30 if i'm lucky). But I've always been like that, and have several family members who are the same way, so maybe it's genetic?

I'm also posting over at Real Thyroid Help (thanks FrannieP!) but I wanted to get your opinions here as well.

Those ranges seem pretty normal to me, so I'm thinking that maybe my issues (no libido, fatigue, loss of motivation, concentration, depression, etc) aren't adrenal issues after all and I need to start looking in a different direction.

Thanks!

~Julia


----------



## nichole

Are you guys exercising? I want to exercise to get the mood boosting benefits, but it does seem to zap me of energy. Maybe I need to keep with it for a few days and then my body will adjust?


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## jlutgendorf

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenvavee* 
how's your thyroid? Thyroid also causes these symptoms.

These are my thyroid results. Someone commented that the free T4 and T3 looked low.

I've also got a low red blood cell count, but my dr. said it was fine. I need to ask her why a low count is normal.

Saliva:
fTSH 40 (Normal 26-85 nlU/ml)
fT4 .12 (Normal .17-.42 ng/dl)
fT3 .39 (Normal .28-1.10 pg/ml)
TPO Negative (Normal: Negative)

Blood Serum
S-TSH 1.6 (Normal .4-7.0 ulU/mL)
S-fT4 1.0 (Normal .8-2.0 ng/dL)
S-fT3 1.5 (Normal 1.4-4.2 pg/mL)

Thanks,

Julia


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## reeseccup

Nicole, what kind of exercises are you doing? Believe it or not that can be a factor. If you are hypo-t, do less stimulating exercises like yoga or Pilates; if you are hyper-t (sorry i can't remember) do stimulating exercises like aerobics or other heart raising exercise.

NOW, I don't exercise right now, not been released to do so from the dr., but when I start up again, it'll be non-stimulating in the morning/day time, and if I do it before bed, then I'll do stimulating. Reason is, being hypo, stimulating makes more tired, where as the non-stim makes me feel rejuvenated.

Just like the foods you put in your body depending on hypo-hyper, hypo you would put in non-stimulating foods and visa versa.


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## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jlutgendorf* 
These are my thyroid results. Someone commented that the free T4 and T3 looked low.

I've also got a low red blood cell count, but my dr. said it was fine. I need to ask her why a low count is normal.

Saliva:
fTSH 40 (Normal 26-85 nlU/ml)
fT4 .12 (Normal .17-.42 ng/dl)
fT3 .39 (Normal .28-1.10 pg/ml)
TPO Negative (Normal: Negative)

Blood Serum
S-TSH 1.6 (Normal .4-7.0 ulU/mL)
S-fT4 1.0 (Normal .8-2.0 ng/dL)
S-fT3 1.5 (Normal 1.4-4.2 pg/mL)

Thanks,

Julia

IMO your adrenals look good.
I would say you are definitely hypothyroid though.
Have you tested for ferratin (not just hemoglobin)
Vit D (25-hydroxyvitamin D)
These could be a biggy w. your symptoms.

If it were me I'd get these tests and start on thyroid support.
You may want o get a blood test for antibodies also.
My saliva thyroid panel tested negative (common) and my blood labs antibodies were sky high.

I've learned that I need to ALWAYS get the actual labs from md - too often his idea of "normal" is rather questionable (putting it mildly!)


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## Gabrielle's Mom

Sorry to seem late to the game here... how do you go about getting the saliva testing done? I am on prednisone and have been on it for a long time. I'm working on a protocol to wean from it with the naturopath. Could/would she be able to order the saliva testing? Would it be best to wean further before checking everything out or would now be a good time? I'd appreciate your thoughts on this stuff. I have a ton of the adrenal fatigue signs/symptoms.


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gabrielle's Mom* 
Sorry to seem late to the game here... how do you go about getting the saliva testing done? I am on prednisone and have been on it for a long time. I'm working on a protocol to wean from it with the naturopath. Could/would she be able to order the saliva testing? Would it be best to wean further before checking everything out or would now be a good time? I'd appreciate your thoughts on this stuff. I have a ton of the adrenal fatigue signs/symptoms.

You'd have to wean entirely before doing the saliva test b/c the prednisone is definitely effecting your cortisol levels.
Your naturopath is I'm sure able to order the test - willing is another story.
You can one yourself from diagnos-techs through canaryclub.org.

I'm not sure how long you'd need to be off of prednisone to get accurate test results - hopefully someone else here knows.


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
You'd have to wean entirely before doing the saliva test b/c the prednisone is definitely effecting your cortisol levels.
Your naturopath is I'm sure able to order the test - willing is another story.
You can one yourself from diagnos-techs through canaryclub.org.

I'm not sure how long you'd need to be off of prednisone to get accurate test results - hopefully someone else here knows.


My dr said a couple of weeks at least, but I guess it depends on how much you are on? I'm giving it 4 weeks to be sure...i just took 3 pills out of one those z-packs I had for a sinus infection. Then I change my mind. Look up the half life...it is like 24-36 hrs.

The exercise I was doing was aerobics. oops. I wanted to get my heart rate up for the seratonin purposes, but it zaps the life out of me.


----------



## Mama~Love

Well, that was kind of a waste of my time. I thought this doctor would've been more receptive to me, but nope. I tried asking twice for the additional tests, but he only ran the TSH & free T4, plus the vitamin D.

So now I'll probably just order that saliva test & go from there.

ETA: He said if these come back normal, he'd just raise my Zoloft dose a bit







. I'm not happy with how it went.


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## Manonash

Nicole, yup, if exercise zaps you, I wouldn't do it. That's definitely draining your adrenals further. I've seen mild exercise recommended for AF sufferers, but not aerobics.

queenvavee, thanks for all your information. I would love to know the differences in the different hair tests. All I've read says they are unreliable most of the time, and that you can kinda learn things from patterns in panels. I'm really itchin to get the Cutler Book. It sure is pricey though, although it does get rave reviews.

Anyone else having a hard time with food? I'm having a horrible time with it. I'm hungry all the time, but very little tastes good or satisfies. I can't tell when I'm full and overeat, causing my tummy to hurt. Then, it takes while for the food to finally digest but I'm hungry again before it does because my brain is yelling for more carbs before the protein gets digested. I'm guessing I need some digestive enzymes? Which ones are safe during BFing? Betaine HCL? After I first eat in the morning, even lightly, my tummy feels heavy (about 1/2c of peas and rice), and I'll feel some version of that uncomfortable feeling most of the day. Also, not long after I first eat, I'll start getting the restless leg thing and lower leg discomfort. It gets better throughout the day. In some ways, I'm forcing myself to eat because I know I'm gonna feel bad when I do, but in some ways I'm starving and want to eat all the time.

I'm also feeling like I really need to nightwean DD. She doesn't sleep well and neither do I. It doesn't matter what she eats before she goes to bed, she's typically gonna wake up 3-5x a night and gets really upset if denied nursies. I really dread doing this. I've read a couple of different methods (which really just seemed to be variations on a theme), but just can't visualize them. I think it's this brain fog thing and the fact that I can't hardly make decisions for the life of me. Even easy ones. I get hung up trying to do the dishes -- do I throw this away, wash it by hand, does it need sterilizing, can I wash this in the dishwasher with this other thing...? It runs me batty!

Sorry for all my complaining, y'all. I'm really tired this morning. Ever since I switched back to complex carbs, I've been crashing.


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## reeseccup

Shonda, please don't feel the need to appolgize here. I really think we all understand here.

My problem is that I get hungry, I know I'm hungry, but I don't feel like eating, so I don't, and won't until I feel ill, then it's a quick handful of nuts, a piece of fruit. I know this isn't healthy, but I can't seem to get to that point of wanting to fix something to eat. I do notice that when I eat any kind of carb, I crash easily, but I crave them something awful. I can eat, in small portions, some carbs, as long as I eat them with a meat protein. If I don't eat between 5-7 ounces of meat protein a day, I feel sick and foggy. Basically, I'm listening to my body, if what I do makes me feel better, I take note and do it more often, if it makes me feel bad, I eliminate it despite the cravings. There are a lot of foods I've eliminated, just on the lip tingle thing (I eat something if my lip tingles, I avoid it thereafter), or if my gut hurts soon after.

I'm actually considering a diet of smoothies in the morning, hot meal for lunch and smoothies for dinner (I'd like to start juicing as well, for the raw nutrients) and whatever snacks I can bring myself to eat throughout. Just getting enough food into me is my problem. Perhaps it's something to consider.

As for digestive enzymes, perhaps eating papaya or taking papaya pills will help.

*I have a question for ya'll, something I've been pondering over.*

Many years back I was having pain on my front/right side lower gut area. I had tests done of everything the dr. could come up with, and in the end, nothing so they put me on charcoal treatment (omg, I thought I would die, that made me so sick). Anyway, ever since I've still had that pain, sometimes bad and sometimes not at all, but always the same spot. I looked up recently a diagram of anatomy, and it seems in that area would be the adrenal glands. *Is it possible this has been going on all these years undetected, other than a twinge of pain that I notice (I'm pretty intuned to my body so notice a lot of these things)? Has anyone else ever noticed a twinge of pain in that general area?*

Just me thinking out loud.


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyofmany* 
Well, that was kind of a waste of my time. I thought this doctor would've been more receptive to me, but nope. I tried asking twice for the additional tests, but he only ran the TSH & free T4, plus the vitamin D.

So now I'll probably just order that saliva test & go from there.

ETA: He said if these come back normal, he'd just raise my Zoloft dose a bit







. I'm not happy with how it went.

Fire the idiot!

This is your health/life!
One thing that I've learned is that I HAVE TO speak WAY more assertively w/ doctors than I do ordinarily.
I have to replace, "I was thinking it'd be good to get these tests.."
with
"I want these tests run please:" (hand them the list.) Leave the burden of argument to them. When they say, "I don't feel these are necessary......" I look them in the eye and ask, "Are you refusing to run these tests?"

OR one thing I've also found very effective is to call the office and tell them I want labs. They start the run around routine of saying they have to ask the md blah blah blah and I very sweetly and firmly hold my ground and say, "thank you I'm happy to hold." Now it's to the point that they run whatever I want (at my expense) just to get me off their backs. They practically roll their eyes at me when I'm in the office and I can tell they're holding their tongues and talking about me behind my back. I don't care one wit!
They are not defining me with their behavior - they're only defining themselves as ignorant and unwilling to see beyond their ridiculously narrow model of medicine.
I'm not out to be popular - I'm out to get well!

IMO, what your doctor said to you in regard to raising your zoloft and refusing requested labs was unacceptable and a stark display of his ignorance. If my doctor had said that to me I would probably thank him for showing me that he his not the right doctor for me and ask him to compile my records as I would need them to begin care with a new practitioner.

If it were me, I'd order the saliva tests which also include a blood serum thyroid panel.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manonash* 
Anyone else having a hard time with food?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *reeseccup* 
I'm actually considering a diet of smoothies in the morning, hot meal for lunch and smoothies for dinner (I'd like to start juicing as well, for the raw nutrients) and whatever snacks I can bring myself to eat throughout. Just getting enough food into me is my problem. Perhaps it's something to consider.

When I first started seeing my adrenal doc (naturopath) he said that upon waking, eating high quality animal protein, animal fat & lots os sea salt was critical. Eating something like fruit or just a grain further worsens our potassium:sodium imbalance.

I've learned that when I eat something like millet porrdige for breakfast, I feel awful almost immediately, shaky, brain fog, tired... If I eat animal protein, I feel GREAT! I have energy, no shakes, clear thinking...
Lately, I've been taking a grain, either millet, quinoa or rice & first, soaking it to reduce/remove phytic acid, then cooking it in either beef or chicken stock (homemade) & then adding even more stock when reheating it so it's like a thick soup & then I add in a few pieces of wild salmon/beef/chicken, etc & a handful of cooked green beans or something & lots of sea salt. I feel a million times better on this type of breakfast. I can last well past lunch without geting shaky or lightheaded (but I try not to let it get to that point before I eat more food.)
To make it easier on myself, I usually pick a day to make a lot of foods - I always have a pot full of bone broth going & keep some in the fridge & freeze the rest in 2 cup measurements. I soak & then cook up huge batches of quinoa, chick peas, etc (rice & millet cook quickly enough, after soaking.) In the mornings, it's easy to just pour some of the precooked grains in a pot, add some stock & a handful of leftover meat/fish & veggies.

Smoothies: I think it depends on what you put into the smoothies. Many raw foods have antinutrients that escort minerals out of your body so that it can't use them (kale, broccoli, etc.)
I think a smoothie would be okay along with some animal fat & protein but alone, it's probably not enough to keep your BP high enough or to nourish your adrenals. JMHO.


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## Mama~Love

Thanks Frannie! I ordered the ZRT combo kit for $199. I will be finding a new doctor.


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## FrannieP

_*my adrenal doc (naturopath) he said that upon waking, eating high quality animal protein, animal fat & lots os sea salt was critical. Eating something like fruit or just a grain further worsens our potassium:sodium imbalance.

I've learned that when I eat something like millet porrdige for breakfast, I feel awful almost immediately, shaky, brain fog, tired... If I eat animal protein, I feel GREAT! I have energy, no shakes, clear thinking...*_

This has been my experience as well.
I used to do really great on smoothies in the morning, but since my adrenals crashed I HAVE TO have protein and sea salt water.

Mommyofmany - good luck, keep us posted!


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## Metasequoia

I can't remember if I mentioned this on here yet.....but after 1 year of treatment....

MY ANXIETY IS GONE!!!!!!!







:

It was kind of weird how I noticed - I was walking with a friend who mentioned her anxiety & I stopped dead in my tracks, looked at her & just stared - I said, "OMG, I don't have anxiety anymore!"







It can't have just up & disappeared one day, but I guess I never realized that it was disappearing, yk? It took someone else mentioning it for me to even think about it.

I remember how every time I got in my car & drove off (with or without kids) my very first thought, every.single.time was, "what if I get into an accident & die, what would happen to my kids?" or "what if we all got into an accident...?"
I haven't had that thought in months!

My biggest source of anxiety has been Lyme disease & ticks & I've had a nice break for a few months during the winter, so time will tell how I handle it as spring draws nearer. I think I've made peace with my decision on how to handle it - basically to just not go to events that would be risky & avoid high risk areas during the high risk months & most importantly, TO BE OKAY WITH MY DECISION. I've often felt guilty for turning down birthday parties or hikes if they involved trekking through ticky areas, but I've realized that I just need to acknowledge that I'm making these decisions not from a place of fear, but from a place of caution. I'm protecting myself & my children & that's great! <phew>

*SO, there's light at the end of the tunnel!* I remember posting back in June/July (after staring treatment in February '07) & feeling discouraged that I wasn't feeling any different. My doctor told me off the bat that healing would take years. I still have chronic muscle pain, and get dizzy/nauseous if I don't get enough protein, but I've overcome the anxiety which quite possibly could have been the worst symptom for me. I feel like, now that the anxiety is gone, *A LOT* of stress is gone, so hopefully more healing will take place.

I've also become more convinced that Dd1 is showing more symptoms of AF. I'm going to talk to my doctor about supplementing her diet with the raw gladulars that I take. I don't want my girl to go through this. Dd2 & Ds, though possibly too young to tell, seem to be okay adrenal wise.
Exdp refuses to believe that it's a possibility that Dd1 has adrenal issues (he thinks all of this is bogus, including my adrenal & food allergies - all of which I have the test results to prove!) So I won't go the route I've gone, with testing & all, at least not at this point, but I will be proactive in strengthening her adrenals.

*Don't feel discouraged!! We can heal, it just takes time & patience!*


----------



## Manonash

Ok, I need to change the breakfast. I love the idea of the bone broth with the grain and veggie. I'm just sooooooooooooo tired of eggs! I like them, but occassionally want a change. I bought some millet in Dallas last weekend, so I've been itchin to try that. I need to soak all grains first to remove phytates? How long do they need to be soaked? Can someone educate me on pork too? I've seen several people mention avoiding it for AF, but have no idea why.

I've run into the thing of not wanting to cook. I'd be hungry, but would just pop anything that was easy into my mouth. Cooking was too much effort. I'm not sure it was AF talking though, as much as laziness.









mommyofmany, I can't believe your doc said that to you! Kudos for deciding to find someone else.

reececcup: I've seen them talk about adrenal pain on STTM. They say it can happen.


----------



## FrannieP

IME adrenal pain is usually in the kidney area - more toward the back/side-ish.

Who knows though, every body is different - espec after giving birth!

Reececup~ do you have tons of metal amalgams in yr mouth? I ask b/c you responded so adversely to the charcoal.

Metasequoia ~ Thanks for the reminder through your example! Is there a link where we can read about your initial labs, treatment etc?
I searched your posts, but it would take forever to find!


----------



## reeseccup

Wow, I love it when everyone gets chatty, so much information to gleen.

The morning smoothie I was considering, is with raw eggs (from my own hens) and other stuff (adding a bit of sea salt would be ok too). I've eliminated cabbage family foods, nightshade family foods, and most gluten. The only dairy I get is raw goat, or kefir and that's not much. I do know I need meat protein in the morning, so this is why I'm considering this. Of course this isn't set in stone, just me thinking out loud how to get my nutrients in me w/o having to eat.

The pain was/is on the right hand side, right above my hip bone, almost on the side, but on the front. I"m also very short and short waisted. I've noticed that the pain is less these days, since i've been working on my diet.

I don't have any metal in my mouth, but I was vaccinated a LOT through the 70's, 80's, and some in the 90's. Mostly with tetnus boosters.








Reese


----------



## Manonash

I have a similar pain on my left side, but it seems too low to be adrenal. I've also heard it being akin to kidney pain -- from the back.

Metasequoia, it is so encouraging to hear that your anxiety is improving. Do you have OCD, too? I ask because you were talking about specific anxieties. I have it, and it can really be a buggerbear sometimes!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
Metasequoia ~ Thanks for the reminder through your example! Is there a link where we can read about your initial labs, treatment etc?
I searched your posts, but it would take forever to find!

My results are in the first post.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manonash* 

Metasequoia, it is so encouraging to hear that your anxiety is improving. Do you have OCD, too? I ask because you were talking about specific anxieties. I have it, and it can really be a buggerbear sometimes!

No, I don't think I have OCD. Lyme/ticks has been my only obsession/phobia & it only started 2 years ago, which is when my adrenal symptoms started (after reading up on Lyme - huge long story, but I thought I had it, was nursing my newborn & my 3 yr old & found that it can be passed through breastmilk.)


----------



## Manonash

Even without OCD, that one phobia can still be a real adrenal drainer. It can be really painful to have to deal with something like this. I've got my fingers crossed this season for you! It's so good to hear that your anxiety has improved so much. That really gives me hope. I do have OCD, and I know it's made worse by the Hg in my head and this AF. I'm so glad we have this thread; I don't feel so alone with the AF. I know a lot of people with AF, but none of them have a name for it or would want to talk about it if they did. Thanks for all your support here!

For those who have used Canary Club or DianosTechs, how long did it take from the time you ordered the tests to the time you got the tubes and then the results? I've got a doc's appt in 2wks and didn't know if I could have the results by then.

I've decided I think my adrenals are trying to rest. I've started going to tinkle about twice as often, and if I remember correctly, that means low aldosterone? Causing more sodium to be excreted? So, if my adrenals started producing less would that mean they are taking a break? Is this something you feel worse before you feel better?

DD is really driving me batty with all the night nursing. I THINK she's working on those last molars. Almost everytime she even slightly stirs, she starts thrashing and stretching and diving for my chest. She gets really upset quickly if I try to comfort her to sleep in other ways. When she isn't teething though, she still wants to nurse 2 or 3x a night.


----------



## quelindo

I'm coming out of lurkdom again, this time to share my story.

I've always felt sort of weak and tired, sensitive to too much stimulation, startled easily, always cold and with low blood pressure (which doctors always said was a good thing!).

I remember my parents, my mother especially, seemed to get overwhelmed and tired easily. They were both teachers, and in the evening they were always on the couch, often falling asleep before dragging themselves off to bed.

My childhood was stressful. My mom was a control freak, my dad was prone to fits of rage (and we never knew what would set him off) and neither of them showed us love or support. I was bored by the academic part of school and was very shy and insecure. I used to come home from school, get in my pajamas, sit on the couch with a plate of cookies and watch TV.

When DH and I got together twelve years ago my life got super stressful again. He was in the process of getting a divorce, and his wife was really nasty and bitter and made our lives hell. He had three kids, too, so when we moved in together there were suddenly three little kids in my home 1/3 of the time. They were (and are) great kids, but talk about _stress_.

During all of this I was (low-fat) vegetarian, and actually went vegan before I got pregnant and through my son's first year. I'm doing lots of "good" fat and meats, a la WAP, now -- started that in the past year or so.

Then we had our son and while our homebirth was a great experience, it came on strong and fast and for five hours I had no chance to rest. And then my son was (and IS) a terrible sleeper. He cried a lot as an infant and nursed constantly. He's 2.5 now and STILL nurses constantly, including all night long. I keep thinking I should night-wean him, but then I wonder if I should wait until all his molars are in -- but then they seem to be taking forever.

It took me a long time to recover from the birth. I was light-headed, weak, and felt horribly overwhelmed and tired constantly. I went grain- and sugar-free and things improved, but I think I need more.

I actually went to my family practitioner last April to get tested for a thyroid disorder because I was feeling so crappy, and because my mom and sister had just been diagnosed hypothyroid. The doctor dismissed my suggestion of adrenal fatigue by saying that the only issue with the adrenals is complete failure. Then all my blood tests came back fine -- she had a nurse call and leave me a message saying they were fine and to make an appointment for 6-8 weeks from then. Umm, hello, feeling HORRIBLE right now? Needless to say, I'm never going back to that doctor.

I did find a naturopath who is working with me and she's really open to any tests I want to run. She actually BELIEVES in testing for metals and adrenal fatigue and all the stuff I've been reading about and believe, too. My metals test came back with low levels of mercury and lead. I had it done just to satisfy my curiosity, since I'm still nursing and don't want to chelate until DS weans.

And I'm actually doing the Diagnos-tech saliva test today and am really anxious to see the results. Does anyone know, if I send it out tomorrow (overnight it) would the results be in my doctor's hands a week from next Wednesday for my next appointment?

I have another question, if you've made it this far -- is it possible my son has AF as well? He's only 2.5, so I can't do the saliva test on him yet. He's a VERY light sleeper, is definitely more on the highly sensitive side (hates loud noises or the unknown, isn't your "typical" hyper 2.5 year old boy). How would I know, and is there anything I could give him if I think he is? I just sent off a hair test for heavy metals for him, too, though since I have no fillings and he's never been vax'ed I'm not sure that would be an issue for him.

Anyway, thanks for this thread. I have to go back and do some reading!


----------



## FrannieP

_Does anyone know, if I send it out tomorrow (overnight it) would the results be in my doctor's hands a week from next Wednesday for my next appointment?_

If it were me, I'd call them a few days after you send your kit off and ask them to email or fax them to your MD.
They did this for me. If you're sending the kit to the Kent, WA lab ask for Sara! Very nice and helpful.

Good luck! And keep us posted.


----------



## quelindo

I forgot to mention something pretty big -- I have had no period for most of my life. Well, it's more involved than that, but we had to do IVF to have my son because I was not menstruating (and thus not ovulating) on my own. I asked my reproductive endocrinologist WHY and she essentially said it was a variant of PCOS and went on to how she could get me pregnant.









I'm so ticked off now, when I'm finding out all the things that this could be indicative of. I actually got a period ON MY OWN a year ago, after supplementing with high-vitamin CLO for many months. Then I got another one 15 weeks after that, and another one 8 weeks after that. _Then_ I stumbled upon a study done on anovulatory women who were found to be deficient in vitamin D, who were supplemented with it and went on to ovulate and even get pregnant. When I told my RE that I got some periods ON MY OWN (this was major to me!) and that they were getting closer together, she said, "That's not close together!" Grr.


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
_Does anyone know, if I send it out tomorrow (overnight it) would the results be in my doctor's hands a week from next Wednesday for my next appointment?_

If it were me, I'd call them a few days after you send your kit off and ask them to email or fax them to your MD.
They did this for me. If you're sending the kit to the Kent, WA lab ask for Sara! Very nice and helpful.

Good luck! And keep us posted.

Thanks!


----------



## Metasequoia

Welcome New Mama!







Good lord, your son is adorable! Your MySpace avatar & the picture of you holding him as a newborn just gave me that primal babylust feeling, you know that melting feeling? Ugh, I'm in a sappy, emotional mood. I think I'm going to join Ds in bed & snuggle his sweaty little toddler head.

And wow, no period for most of your life? I went for 5 months once or twice w/o being pregnant but have very low body fat - I always thought that was the reason. So are you taking lots of CLO now?

I think my Dd1 has AF too. I've read that it's hereditary. My ND's daughter who is the same age as my Dd1 also shows signs of AF -which is comforting in a weird sort of way. He told me to just really up the organ meats, bone broths, vitamin c, CLO & to help her to deal with her stress. THIS is where I'm at a loss. HOW do we help our children handle stress? When she flies off the handle I just want to grab her & hug her but she hits me or kicks me & tells me to go away.








I'm going to really ask him for some advice beyond what he's said already about Dd1. I wonder if I could give her some raw glandulars...I'll let you know what he says.

Hang in there, can't wait to hear about your results.


----------



## Manonash

Welcome to the group NewMama! My parents were both teachers too and the pattern of coming home and crashing is so familiar. Mom would force herself to make a huge dinner and then crash on the couch after she cleaned up. Dad had crashed after dinner. I would eat cookies and milk or sugar-laden cereals for breakfast and come home and eat more cookies and junk. When I was in HS, we could go off campus for lunch and I would walk to the store and get some kinda candy, some kinda chip, and a soft drink to wash it down. My eating habits have FAR improved, but still have a ways to go. My 2yr old still nurses a lot too and has only slept thru the night a couple of times. I've also considered nightweaning. I actually think she may be better off if I do, since I think her adrenals (and mine) would fair better if she got a good nights sleep. She does seem to sleep the worst between 3 and 5, and gets her best sleep when she first goes to sleep and then again between 7 and 9 (usually). I'm not sure if it's her system or some adrenal hormone in my breastmilk that makes her that way. I've wondered is it coming from me, causing her patterns to mimic mine.

Quote:

THIS is where I'm at a loss. HOW do we help our children handle stress?
This is such a great question. I wish I knew the answer, too. Anyone got any ideas here? I want to make sure that we don't give her any indication that it matters what other people think of her or that life is supposed to be a struggle. Those are BIG things to try to teach a kiddo. I have a hard time with those myself. I just want her to be happy. DH is really good about this, so I'm kinda following his lead here.

Metasequoia, it dawned on me later I may have offended you with the OCD question. I'm so sorry if I did; I certainly didn't mean to.


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## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Welcome New Mama!







Good lord, your son is adorable!

Thanks. _I_ think so, but acknowledge that I'm a bit biased.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
And wow, no period for most of your life? I went for 5 months once or twice w/o being pregnant but have very low body fat - I always thought that was the reason. So are you taking lots of CLO now?

Yes, I think I had one or two periods as an adolescent, though I don't remember a lot from my childhood, so it's possible that I never got any at all. I went to an OB/GYN when I was about 18 because I thought maybe I should check that out, and she essentially told me that it was no big deal -- that unless I _wanted_ to deal with a period every month it was fine to leave things the way they were.

Then I went on the pill when I was 21, so that induced a period every month. I went off it ten years later when we TTC. Of course nothing happened, so we went the infertility route.

I'm a bit angry about none of my doctors indicating that this was a symptom of a greater problem. We spent $20,000 and two years TTC -- and that's not mentioning any other problems with my health because of my hormones being out of whack.

We tried to use our one remaining frozen embryo last September, with no luck, and although that induced a period I haven't gotten another one since. I'm doing acupuncture, though, so I'm hoping I will regain my fertility. And although I stopped doing the CLO for a few months last fall and into early winter (just lazy), I've been taking it religiously since the start of the year.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I'm going to really ask him for some advice beyond what he's said already about Dd1. I wonder if I could give her some raw glandulars...I'll let you know what he says.

Yes, please do!

My son seems to be okay as far as dealing with stress goes. He really doesn't meltdown that much for being 2.5. I'm more concerned about his poor/light sleeping habits, and I wonder about his sensitivity to outside stimulation (for instance, if other kids are getting a little rambunctious he gets upset, telling them, "Don't do that!") I have to think that our AP/GD parenting style helps, and I hope to homeschool/unschool so I would think that would be helpful, too.


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## Pookietooth

I have PCOS as well, and was vegetarian from the age of 16 until I was 28. I was vegan for awhile in there, too. When I started eating meat, it didn't help my PCOS, probably because I was still eating lots of flour and sugar, white mostly. I gained even more weight when I went omnivore, and low carbing later on only helped somewhat. I think my AF probably is what caused the PCOS -- the low energy and depression put on the weight and that along with the hormonal imbalance from the AF made my body a mess. I don't have a lot of advice at this point, just chiming in.


----------



## Maggi315

OK, still haven't reaad through all the posts, but is anyone else dealing with a pituitary tumor causing the adrenal problems? And having to take hydrocortisone on top of everything else? maybe someone wrote about it, but I didn't get to that post yet, just wondering...


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maggi315* 
OK, still haven't reaad through all the posts, but is anyone else dealing with a pituitary tumor causing the adrenal problems? And having to take hydrocortisone on top of everything else? maybe someone wrote about it, but I didn't get to that post yet, just wondering...

no tumor, but I believe mine shut down due to excessive blood loss in childbirth leading to a lot of my problems. I take HC.


----------



## Maggi315

i'm still reading through, but I read about the recommendation for a sleep study. I had one done in september, because I felt lke I was never really sleeping. Turns out I woke up 116 times in 6 hours, wow, no wonder I feel like crap. And that wasn't at home, where my two year wants to nurse all the time, my husband's snoring and alarm wake me up, barking dogs, etc.

The doctor ordered an mri from there and found the pituitary tumor. Long story short, i continued to become extremely fatiqued to the point of hardly being able to physically move, i lost consciousness around thanksgiving, husband called ambulance, stupid er doctor told me i was either depressed or had od'ed on something (i felt better there because they put me on saline drip!). released me, i continued to decline, admitted to another hospital the next week where they did the cortisol stimulation test and found I had NO CORTISOL OR ACTH) IN MY SYSTEM and was literally dying.

they weren't particlarly helpful though and I went to yale, where the doctor looked at the tumor and said even though it is small, the position is what is the problem. the area that sends the signals to the adrenals is destroyed, although they think it periodically spits out some hormones, making me have a hard time regulating my medication.

today, I am having a horrible, horrible day and literally can't seem to move too much, just lying in bed, don't want to read, watch tv,don't even want to be on here, but I have to do something. I took some extra meds, but my nausea is killing me. If i don't feel well in another hour I am going to run a saline iv on myself, that usually helps, I ate some salt today, but I still feel like I am not losing the battle for whatever reason today, I can't even stand to be around the kids. It's a horrible, horrible feeling, thank god, I have no one due to have a baby.

so there's my short story, I will be back when I am up to it to add more stuff and more about the tests and supplements. I want to get some better cortisol tests done, but it is horrible when I have to go off my meds for a day, I am useless.


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## Pookietooth

Big







to you Maggi315. I hope you find some support soon. That would be so hard with five kids. Goodness.


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## neveryoumindthere

I FINALLY went in to pick up my saliva test kit and the dr. only ordered a one-time cortisol (with a bunch of other hormones) which is the $220 the dr. originally quoted (NOT telling me it's only one cortisol), so I told the guy I want the 24 hr cortisol...get this. it's almost $400!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had to just leave. I don't have that money, that's without even paying for the supplements I'd need









I'll be calling an ND tomorrow to find out what her prices are. sigh, why can't this be easy. I dont have the energy to call around and research anymore> I just want someoen to take over and to get better


----------



## BeingMe

Canaryclub.org has 2 tests one is about $140 and the other is $199. Both are 4 tube test and include other things. They can even pull the doctors info that's associated with canary club if you live in CA for the referral.
I got the $199 one because my previous labs were from the same lab. But I can't tell you the difference between the two. But you can't beat the prices.


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan* 
Canaryclub.org has 2 tests one is about $140 and the other is $199. Both are 4 tube test and include other things. They can even pull the doctors info that's associated with canary club if you live in CA for the referral.
I got the $199 one because my previous labs were from the same lab. But I can't tell you the difference between the two. But you can't beat the prices.

If you register at Canaryclub,org (which simply involves name. address, email)
you can order your own 24 hr saliva test kit from Diagnos-Techs. order the $149 kit and they will send it to you. You send them a check when you send your kit in. It includes the 24 cortisol test, a full serum thyroid panel, and sex hormones. You also have the option to return the kit without the blood serum and just test your adrenals and reproductive hormones for only $109.00 by saliva. It's a very accurate test and a great price. They will post your results online usually under 2 wks from when you send it in. And they'll also mail your results to you so you can take them in to your doctor.


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## neveryoumindthere

seriously? I don't need a doctor to order it? (that's what I just read in the Mood Cure)

I'm in Canada, will that make a difference you think?


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## BeingMe

I believe there is a phone number on canary clubs site, or you can just call the labs directly. That's what I did. They are very helpful, at least ZRT was.


----------



## FrannieP

Yes, Diagnos-Techs has a toll free # 800-878-3787.


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## neveryoumindthere

Yay!!! I have an appointment with a naturopath on the 25th! This is about 4 years worth of 'putting it off'!!
Anyhow, they are totally cool with outside testing and bringing that in so I'll order the DiagnosTech one, but hte receptionist also mentioned the ND could treat based on symptoms alone without the test. In that case, there is an appointment available this friday. What do you all think? Should I just go in and see what she says in a few days or go in with the tests 3 weeks from now?

I'm 7 weeks pg. so I'm really wanting to sort EVERYTHING out before baby gets here and I'm suffering from PPD and thyroiditis and adrenal fatigue and can't figure out anything on my own







:

advice?


----------



## littlewillow

It's been a while since I posted.

The last time I was here, I was looking forward to an Appt. with a new doctor.

It went horribly wrong. He was rude and explained every word he used as if I knew nothing.
He didn't believe in adrenal fatigue and he kept talking to me like this
"well your anxiety, I mean adrenal issues...or "so your anxiety, I mean shortness of breath...

The first few times he did it I actually thought he was really sincere, but then I got it. I was so flustered and upset by the time I left.
Right now I am in terrible shape.

I have had the worst shortness of breath. Upon standing and especially laying down, I feel like there's an elephant on my chest.
After a while I feel like my chest is burning or my muscles are hurting.

I can't sleep. I cannot sit quietly. I have found the more active I am, the better I can breathe. Does that make sense.

My low blood sugar episodes have been better, less internal trembling, more energy, but it's just the shortness of breath taking all my attention.
It's hard to do anything. Even driving down the road.

I feel if I curl up into a ball I can breath a little more freely.

I'm taking the licorice root still and raw adrenal.
I'm eating well.

I think I'm just terribly discouraged with all the dr's around here telling me I'm crazy, anxious.
I'm beginning to beleieve it myself.
I know this has caused me anxiety, but I also thought I knew the difference between the anxiety and the shortness of breath.
Why don't I have it when I'm just sitting here. It's standing and laying down.

I have numbness arcoss my face under my eyes and down my right arm.
My throat is always tight.
I have an ENT telling me I have GERD and an allergist telling me I have VCD, so I'm lost and feeling hopeless.








I don't know what to do anymore.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
Yay!!! I have an appointment with a naturopath on the 25th! This is about 4 years worth of 'putting it off'!!
Anyhow, they are totally cool with outside testing and bringing that in so I'll order the DiagnosTech one, but hte receptionist also mentioned the ND could treat based on symptoms alone without the test. In that case, there is an appointment available this friday. What do you all think? Should I just go in and see what she says in a few days or go in with the tests 3 weeks from now?

I'm 7 weeks pg. so I'm really wanting to sort EVERYTHING out before baby gets here and I'm suffering from PPD and thyroiditis and adrenal fatigue and can't figure out anything on my own







:

advice?

Here's what I'd do: Order the Diagnos-Techs test from CanaryClub for $149 - *you need to do the 24 hour cortisol test*, sex hormones & thyroid panel & that's a great price. Get thos eresults & hang on to them forever.
Nobody should treat adrenal fatigue without first finding out where they stand & any doctor familiar with adrenal fatigue should know this.
Your cortisol could be sky high or it could be gone, depending on what stage you're in, your treatment will vary considerably.


----------



## pellifoli

subbing, thanks for the thread. I had a dental visit today & had a mercury filling replaced w/porcelain, but the visit/procedure left me exhausted.

I'm 43, my son is 2.5 & I'm fried, I've noticed my stress response is so extreme & after every little thing I feel tired. I have palpitations sometimes at night, notice changes in my energy cycle w/my menstrual cycle. had hormone testing done about 5 years ago and was estrogen dominant, treated w/bioidentical progesterone which helped some of my symptoms, but can't remember how my thyroid etc looked. have been v. preoccupied (well obsessed & anxious really) w/health stuff, have family history of hypoglycemia combined w/both high blood pressure & cholesterol.

did the pupil test last night from STTM website & pupils did flutter a little.
on the Dianostecs website, they list my gynecologist who I am seeing 2.5 weeks, so I'm hopeful she'll be helpful.

Little Willow, many hugs, I'm *so* sorry that doc treated you so horribly. you deserve much better than that, and I hope you can find someone to help you soon.


----------



## Pookietooth

to you littlewillow, you deserve to be treated with respect and kindness, not rudeness, condescention and snide remarks. I am so sorry to hear you got that treatment. How is your thyroid? How much licorice are you taking and in what form? I hope you feel better soon.


----------



## BeingMe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pellifoli* 
subbing, thanks for the thread. I had a dental visit today & had a mercury filling replaced w/porcelain, but the visit/procedure left me exhausted.

I'm 43, my son is 2.5 & I'm fried, I've noticed my stress response is so extreme & after every little thing I feel tired. I have palpitations sometimes at night, notice changes in my energy cycle w/my menstrual cycle. had hormone testing done about 5 years ago and was estrogen dominant, treated w/bioidentical progesterone which helped some of my symptoms, but can't remember how my thyroid etc looked. have been v. preoccupied (well obsessed & anxious really) w/health stuff, have family history of hypoglycemia combined w/both high blood pressure & cholesterol.

did the pupil test last night from STTM website & pupils did flutter a little.
on the Dianostecs website, they list my gynecologist who I am seeing 2.5 weeks, so I'm hopeful she'll be helpful.

Little Willow, many hugs, I'm *so* sorry that doc treated you so horribly. you deserve much better than that, and I hope you can find someone to help you soon.

Did you prepare for the removal with supplements and are you taking any now? I can't remember what exactly but over on the Chelating thread in the dental forum they can tell you. I just know it's important to support your body through the process and after.


----------



## Jeanne D'Arc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manonash* 
I have a similar pain on my left side, but it seems too low to be adrenal. I've also heard it being akin to kidney pain -- from the back.

Metasequoia, it is so encouraging to hear that your anxiety is improving. Do you have OCD, too? I ask because you were talking about specific anxieties. I have it, and it can really be a buggerbear sometimes!

I get the Adrenal gland , back pain...esp when i dont get the sleep i need.

Is that a really bad sign that mine actually hurt sometimes?

I am on Drenamin now, but have not seen a health practitioner.


----------



## Jeanne D'Arc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littlewillow* 
It's been a while since I posted.

The last time I was here, I was looking forward to an Appt. with a new doctor.

It went horribly wrong. He was rude and explained every word he used as if I knew nothing.
He didn't believe in adrenal fatigue and he kept talking to me like this
"well your anxiety, I mean adrenal issues...or "so your anxiety, I mean shortness of breath...

The first few times he did it I actually thought he was really sincere, but then I got it. I was so flustered and upset by the time I left.
Right now I am in terrible shape.

I have had the worst shortness of breath. Upon standing and especially laying down, I feel like there's an elephant on my chest.
After a while I feel like my chest is burning or my muscles are hurting.

I can't sleep. I cannot sit quietly. I have found the more active I am, the better I can breathe. Does that make sense.

My low blood sugar episodes have been better, less internal trembling, more energy, but it's just the shortness of breath taking all my attention.
It's hard to do anything. Even driving down the road.

I feel if I curl up into a ball I can breath a little more freely.

I'm taking the licorice root still and raw adrenal.
I'm eating well.

I think I'm just terribly discouraged with all the dr's around here telling me I'm crazy, anxious.
I'm beginning to beleieve it myself.
I know this has caused me anxiety, but I also thought I knew the difference between the anxiety and the shortness of breath.
Why don't I have it when I'm just sitting here. It's standing and laying down.

I have numbness arcoss my face under my eyes and down my right arm.
My throat is always tight.
I have an ENT telling me I have GERD and an allergist telling me I have VCD, so I'm lost and feeling hopeless.








I don't know what to do anymore.

You may need to get tested for bugs...


----------



## Manonash

littlewillow, I am so sorry that happened to you! That's insane for a doctor to treat anyone like that! Sadly, it seems to be common.







I hope you find someone who will listen soon. Don't give up. I've been online searching for alternative doctors in my area and have found some. What I've decided to do is to work from that list, and go one by one until I find one that works well for me. I fall somewhere in the middle between holistic and allopathic and want someone who is good at integrative stuff. I do worry about getting taken by holistic people as well, so I'm trying to be cautious, and will research everything a doc recommends to me before putting anything into my mouth or on my skin or whatever.

pellifoli: what precautions did your dentist take when removing your amalgam? if the right precautions weren't taken then you probably got a dose of Hg from the removal. (Huggins sorta protocol -- rubber dam, separate air supply for you, removal of the amalgam in hunks, etc.) Even with all the precautions, you can still get some, but it helps.

Why, oh why is it that I am addicted to the very foods that seem to do me the most harm? I binged on bread this week and am dearly paying for it. My joints are so sore







God, protect me from myself.


----------



## nichole

I am doing my adrenal fatigue saliva test today yay! I made little notes to remind me to collect my samples.

I hope I don't screw it up. There are so many rules to this test like what time to collect, when/what to eat, etc.


----------



## Periwinkle

I ordered some organic licorice root drop and they arrived yesterday. Problem: they taste terrible.







How do you all eat them? They literally made me wretch.


----------



## Manonash

Nicole, good luck with your test! I'm ready to take one too. I decided to wait and see if the doc Thur will order it so insurance will pay.

Periwinkle, sorry about the licorice. I haven't tried it, but pretty sure I would hate them too. I've always hated licorice candy, so.....

Hope everyone's had a good day. I'm having trouble relaxing. My mind is a blur with all sorts of stuff (mostly medical stuff right now), and I'm a total grouch (poor DD and hubby). When I try to relax, I just totally undo myself. I'd love to go rent a couple of great movies or something like that, but it will be a while before someone can watch DD for us. Any ideas on how you like to relax? I am getting to bed much earlier lately and that has been good. Now if I could just stay asleep :LOL

Feeling hopeful today: Going to see the new doc on Thur. I've got my fingers crossed that I like her. And, I called a biological dentist that I found 45min from me, and they sounded great on the phone (follow huggins protocol for amalgam removal), so when DD stops nursing, I'll go check them out. One thing I shoulda asked the lady on the phone at the dentist office is if they knew any Andy Cutler docs locally. That way I wouldn't have to drive so far. She said that they will only do large amalgam removals with their patient under a doctor's care for the detox. That made me feel more comfortable already.


----------



## pellifoli

"pellifoli: what precautions did your dentist take when removing your amalgam? if the right precautions weren't taken then you probably got a dose of Hg from the removal. (Huggins sorta protocol -- rubber dam, separate air supply for you, removal of the amalgam in hunks, etc.) Even with all the precautions, you can still get some, but it helps."

he's a member of IAOMT, and follows that protocol except I couldn't handle the rubber dam, made me panic big time, and I just realized they didn't do the oxygen either. sigh. well it's better than if I went to my old dentist. this was an emergency as the filling had cracked as well as tooth, so I was flying by the seat of my pants & trying not to lose what little cool I had. he was strongly urging me to get others removed, but I don't want to disturb them until I do some other work on feeling better. and this was so expensive & now my nightguard doesn't fit, will be another $400 for a new nightguard. I'm feeling so uncertain about everything.

what supplements are recommended? I take a bunch already, multi, C, B complex, NN fish oil, Co-Q 10, garlic, I think that's it.

we had a tornado warning tonight & had to get in closet for 20 min, totally shot my already dentist visit shot nerves.

Manonash, hope your doctor visit Thurs goes well! I'm antsy to see my doc in 3 weeks.


----------



## Pookietooth

Periwinkle, are you talking about a tincture? How dilute do you make it?


----------



## MommyHawk

I went to the endo for a cortisol test the other day. *Has anyone had this reaction???* I got my blood drawn, then had an injection of cortisol. 45 minutes later I got my blood drawn again and then I went home.

I never felt so great and calm and awake in my life! After spending 3 HOURS at the doctor's office, I took my 2 small children grocery shopping, ate lunch with messy pizza, and then drove home, transfered all the stuff from the car to the house, put it all away, cleaned up the kitchen and set up to make dinner....WTH!!!

I would NEVER have been able to do that normally! After the doc's office I would of gone home to take a nap! All the while yelling at my kids because I was so overwhelmed...I did so much, like supermom, and was calm and lighthearted and happy the whole time...!

what does this mean?














:That I was having a good day and nothing to do with the shoot? Or that my body was low in cortisol? and what does that mean??? or what does it mean? I have to call the endo and relay the info.


----------



## Jeanne D'Arc

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Here's what I'd do: Order the Diagnos-Techs test from CanaryClub for $149 - *you need to do the 24 hour cortisol test*, sex hormones & thyroid panel & that's a great price. Get thos eresults & hang on to them forever.
Nobody should treat adrenal fatigue without first finding out where they stand & any doctor familiar with adrenal fatigue should know this.
Your cortisol could be sky high or it could be gone, depending on what stage you're in, your treatment will vary considerably.

I was under the impression...that high cortisol and low cortisol have very
specific symptoms.

For example, low blood pressure, feeling tired, and unrested would
suggest low cortisol..right?

I dunno.


----------



## bigeyes

Low cortisol = adrenaline rushes, which can mean yelling at your kids, feeing panicky, bad decisions based on panicky _I must do something right now feelings,_ and raging.

Once I started taking Hydrocortisone for adrenal fatigue, I noticed an instant change in my temper and the mood swings gradually disappeared. Coincidence? Hardly.

For 20 years I've had idiot doctors trying to give me antidepressants and tranquilizers, when all I needed was cortisol to stop the adrenaline rushes.







:


----------



## MommyHawk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Low cortisol = adrenaline rushes, which can mean yelling at your kids, feeing panicky, bad decisions based on panicky _I must do something right now feelings,_ and raging.

Once I started taking Hydrocortisone for adrenal fatigue, I noticed an instant change in my temper and the mood swings gradually disappeared. Coincidence? Hardly.

For 20 years I've had idiot doctors trying to give me antidepressants and tranquilizers, when all I needed was cortisol to stop the adrenaline rushes.







:

so is this why I felt so GREAT after my cortisol shot (am I saying/spelling it right?) Is this 'low' level going to show up in the blood tests that they did (a draw before and a draw after?)


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyHawk* 
so is this why I felt so GREAT after my cortisol shot (am I saying/spelling it right?) Is this 'low' level going to show up in the blood tests that they did (a draw before and a draw after?)

That I don't know about. I am still in the dark about the tests, and just yesterday finally found a naturopath. I haven't worked up the nerve to ask about his fees yet.







:

Past experience with Kaiser led me to seek outside docs for thyroid and adrenal issues and in the year we've been here I haven't seen anyone for either. I've been dosing HC with help from my adrenals group for a few months and I'm taking temps to check my progress with thyroid hormones.

IIRC, cortisol screws up your tests and you're supposed to stop taking it for a couple of weeks before any testing. But if your doc did a test both before and after, maybe he expected it????

Let us know what happens.


----------



## MommyHawk

does anyone use *AdrenoBoost*? I just saw it on the web while doing a search on low-cortisol.

would doing a spit test be beneficial for me? being that the cortisol shot really made me feel great?


----------



## Mama~Love

I got my Combo ZRT tests done yesterday & DH was going to mail them off today for me. Hopefully within a week or so I'll know what's going on!

Has anyone been able to lose weight once they knew what was going on? Or does/did have weight issues? I weigh about twice what I should for my height.


----------



## Manonash

Quote:

so is this why I felt so GREAT after my cortisol shot (am I saying/spelling it right?) Is this 'low' level going to show up in the blood tests that they did (a draw before and a draw after?)
If it's the ACTH stimulation test, then yes. Did they inject you with cortisol or ACTH? If it's a test where the inject cortisol, I don't know what that test is. Glad it made you feel so good! Did you crash the next day?

Well, my doc's appt had to be bumped to next week. DH is going to have to go with me, and his boss called him yesterday and said they needed him in the office today and tomorrow. He works from home most days, and his boss probably didn't even know that he was going to Dallas, as he was just going to work from his parents house when I wasn't at the doc's. So..... the work stuff was urgent, and I moved my appt. Dangit! I was really looking forward to meeting this doc.

I tried to order a test from Canary club last night and when I went to it forwarded me to the Diagnos-Techs site to place the order. I needed to set up an acct with DT to do this. The acct set up site isn't secure. This made me uncomfy-- even if the order page is, if someone can get your username and pw, then they can log into your acct and get your credit card number. so, I was gonna try to contact CC to see about this. If I get time anyway, otherwise, I'll just wait and let the doc order all this next week.


----------



## bigeyes

I just spoke to a naturopath in a nearby town about treatment and her fees, and she told me Kaiser here is different from Kaiser on the mainland. She gave me the names of 2 doctors _at the facility I go to_ who she already works with, so I will be able to get my tests run on my insurance! She said I can go to my PCP for a referral to 1 of them, then after my tests I can see her and she'll work with them on my thyroid and adrenal treatment.









Unbelievable. Kaiser on the mainland sucks and I paid out of pocket for my treatment and tests out of frustration and disgust for years. I'll still have to cough up a lot of money for her office fees, but it's going to be much less than what I've been spending on overseas meds w/o scrips and testing through mail order labs.


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## Pookietooth

Cool!


----------



## Brookesmom

I've been on HC for a little over 3 months now. I had both low adrenal and hypothyroid symptoms, but my dr. wanted to support the adrenals first. I felt better for a few weeks, then more tired. Then at my follow up last week we found my TSH had gone up into the new official hypothyroid territory (free TSH >3.0 that is) so I started a low dose of thyroid meds.

Now I am feeling almost normal for now, knock on wood, with the combo of HC and thyroid. Hopefully it will continue. I would love to try to wean off the HC in 3 or 6 months and see if my body is ready, and probably do another saliva test, but she said the adrenals can take a good year to heal, so time will tell... I expect that I might feel fatigued again in a few weeks if my thyroid meds need to be raised because I'm pretty much on the lowest dose at the moment. If I need to stay on the HC, so be it, but I'm hopeful that once I heal and rest and the stress goes down I can go off of it eventually...

-Kelly


----------



## Maggi315

just wanted to post about my upcoming tests...I need a 24 hour urine, a dexamethasone suppression test (which I can do myself), blood cortisol (I want to draw every 4 hours, not sure if my insurance will pay), also doing an insulin test, another 5 hour gtt, ACTH, DHEA, and probably some others. I can run them all through my labs, I just hate doing them.

Anyone else doing home nutritional iv? Seems like I am not absorbing nutriients, my B12 is low, low D, and some other things. One of my endos suggested it, but it seems so expensive, my insurance won't pay for it.

Also I would looooveeee ideas to help me sleep better. I try to take my hydrocortisone and armour thyroid split up throughout the day, and at night I take Requip (for my nasty restless legs, they are severe, every night, one doctor thought maybe related to pituitary tumor, love ideas for that too!), an unisom, an herbal combination, and sometimes clonipin. Seems like I have 2 distinct problems:
1. I can't fall asleep at a decent hour, seems my internal clock is messed up. And then if I do a night birth, it totally messes it up.
2. My mind doesn't seem to be able to shut down
3. I keep waking up throughout the night. I wouldn't even mind if I could get up and do something, read, whatever, I would love to write, that's one of my goals, but my brain is really fried and I feel so exhausted. This, of course, leads to me being exhausted all day and having trouble with brain fog and memory issues.

I have been postponing my pit. mri, I need to get off my butt and get that scheduled in the next two weeks, but I have alot of other stuff going on with my kids health and work, so it seems to keep falling in the background.


----------



## nichole

Lisa- i feel like i take soo many supplements. i'm on a multivitamin, fish oil, probiotics, sodium ascorbate and coconut oil (but that is more of a food). i just ordered a stress formula of b vitamins with extra panotheic acid (b5) and b12. also i ordered some bioflavanoids b/c i take a lot of Vit c (sodium ascorbate).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manonash* 
Nicole, good luck with your test! I'm ready to take one too. I decided to wait and see if the doc Thur will order it so insurance will pay.

Periwinkle, sorry about the licorice. I haven't tried it, but pretty sure I would hate them too. I've always hated licorice candy, so.....

Hope everyone's had a good day. I'm having trouble relaxing. My mind is a blur with all sorts of stuff (mostly medical stuff right now), and I'm a total grouch (poor DD and hubby). When I try to relax, I just totally undo myself. I'd love to go rent a couple of great movies or something like that, but it will be a while before someone can watch DD for us. Any ideas on how you like to relax? I am getting to bed much earlier lately and that has been good. Now if I could just stay asleep :LOL

Feeling hopeful today: Going to see the new doc on Thur. I've got my fingers crossed that I like her. And, I called a biological dentist that I found 45min from me, and they sounded great on the phone (follow huggins protocol for amalgam removal), so when DD stops nursing, I'll go check them out. One thing I shoulda asked the lady on the phone at the dentist office is if they knew any Andy Cutler docs locally. That way I wouldn't have to drive so far. She said that they will only do large amalgam removals with their patient under a doctor's care for the detox. That made me feel more comfortable already.

thank you! i can't wait to find out what the test says. i feel better, but still anxious/panicky/manic part of the time. i feel so much better when i relax. today we went outside and i watched the kids play and read my book. reading really helps me especially if it is something light. i like to check my email and mothering.com, but staring at the computer too much makes me feel worse. watching tv with dh helps a little. sometimes it feels better if i just go to bed. i just need so much sleep and time to lay in the dark away from all the stiumation. going places with the kids helps too. i just have to get away from my responsiblities, b/c if i walk by a dish in the sink or the laundry, or a bill, i will stop to deal with it no matter how stressed i am. so what i am saying is i know how to relax, i just don't take enough breaks during the day. i hate to say it b/c i love my kids but my FAVORITE way to relax is to get a babysitter and go out with dh or a friend







on the other hand, for about 30 minutes today i just got on the floor with them and played and i felt totally better.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jeanne D'Arc* 
I was under the impression...that high cortisol and low cortisol have very
specific symptoms.

For example, low blood pressure, feeling tired, and unrested would
suggest low cortisol..right?

I dunno.

I've always had very low BP, even when I was in the beginning stages with very high cortisol. My anxiety was out of control with the excess corisol & I had more physical symptoms, like burning skin.

Once my cortisol became depleted, the burning skin went away, but so did my anxiety, then the muscle pain kicked in & is still here.

I still had occasional adrenaline rusges & anxiety attacks, but with treatment, they have completely disappeared (with exception to normal fight-or-flight responses, like almost fender benders & such.)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Low cortisol = adrenaline rushes, which can mean yelling at your kids, feeing panicky, bad decisions based on panicky _I must do something right now feelings,_ and raging.

Once I started taking Hydrocortisone for adrenal fatigue, I noticed an instant change in my temper and the mood swings gradually disappeared. Coincidence? Hardly.

For 20 years I've had idiot doctors trying to give me antidepressants and tranquilizers, when all I needed was cortisol to stop the adrenaline rushes.







:

I'm the opposite, I had the adrenaline rushes, rage & anxiety when my cortisol was *high*, now that it's gone, I am pretty calm. It's hard to say what I owe to treatment & what is a normal response to living without cortisol.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 

I'm the opposite, I had the adrenaline rushes, rage & anxiety when my cortisol was *high*, now that it's gone, I am pretty calm. It's hard to say what I owe to treatment & what is a normal response to living without cortisol.

I was reading somewhere that for many of us the symptoms of high and low cortisol are similar, so that doesn't come as a big surprise to me.







Makes it confusing as all hell.


----------



## Manonash

Quote:

and at night I take Requip (for my nasty restless legs, they are severe, every night,
I have this too. For me, it's hypoglycemia. I haven't gotten my BS under control very well yet, so haven't really solved this one.

I was going to the doc last THur, but that fell thru, now I'm going this Thur. Fingers crossed! I have a huge laundry list of tests I want run.

Oh, anyone done the Hair elements test from DDI? If you did, did you need a doctor's order? I called them last week to order it, and they said I needed a doc's order. I was under the impression that they were a patient order place.

Hope everyone has a good, relaxing week!


----------



## nichole

Since I posted last, I have had a lot less stress and anxiety. I'm learning how to stop thinking about stuff that stresses me out so much. I'm the one in charge of my thoughts. I've been putting less on my to do list each day, but getting more done b/c I don't have that debilitating anxious feeling dragging me down.


----------



## MommyHawk

my test results, well, half of them, came back from the endo - I had a cortisol injection and blood draws before and after (1 hour after) and FINALLY something has come back!!! I was getting sick of hearing, "Your test results are perfect!" as if THIS is what perfect health feels like!...







:

anyway, the results so far is that I'm LOW Cortisol.

I'm so glad that I started reading this thread. I didn't know that my over-panicky, over-fear, crazy thoughts keeping me from doing anything outside with the kids was from a side effect of Adrenal Fatigue. I'm so glad that I knew, from this thread, to seek out an endo. Now I see others who have Restless Leg? I have had that forever! Is that from Adrenal Fatigue?

so hydrocortisol will make it all go away and I'll be normal!??!?! well, one can always hope


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyHawk* 
so hydrocortisol will make it all go away and I'll be normal!??!?! well, one can always hope









Do you mean hydrocortisone? I wouldn't recommend taking that. Your already stressed body becomes dependent on it & further weakens your adrenals because they decide that they no longer need to make cortisol on their own. Then you have to try to wean off of the hydrocortisone which, many here can tell you, is anything but easy.

I've come a long way using raw glandulars & pregnenolone. 1 year ago I was an anxious mess, now I have absolutely zero anxiety.

If your endo isn't open to other treatments aside from hydrocortisone, I think you should find a new doctor.

My awesome naturopath does phone consults - $2/minute. He'll want you to do the Diagnos-Techs test (he has them & can send one to you - it's $99) & you can go from there. I can't rave enough about my doctor - adrenal fatigue is his specialty & he is a former sufferer so he "gets it."

I'm glad that you're finally getting some answers.


----------



## Metasequoia

Oh, I meant to post about my appt. today....My BP was 110-110-120, so the numbers have come up SOOOO much from where they were a year ago (in the low 90s) but we'd like that last number to stay down a bit after standing up. (It goes, lying down-standing up-30 seconds later, still standing up.)

I did my saliva test last year on 3/4/07, so I have the test kit & I'm going to do the test probably on Monday. I ran out of pregnenolone about 5 days ago & boy do I feel it! I feel like words aren't coming as easily, like my mind just isn't as sharp. My ND said that's fine, nothing to worry about, that we're really assisting my body by supplementing the pregnenolone because my body is having trouble keeping up. He said that it doesn't mean that I haven't improved (clearly I have) just that my body still needs assistance - like he said a year ago, healing the adrenals is a sloooow process!
Anywho, this is good because in order to do the saliva test (Diagnos-Techs ASI) I need to be off the pregnenolone for a week & I should also lay off the Mil Adregen (glandulars) for a few days prior for the best results. So yay, 2 more days of no supplements & I'll test Monday, woo-hoo!

I also asked more about Dd1. I asked if I could give her Mil Adregen & he gave me the okay. It's such a giant horse pill, I think I'll crush it & put it in applesauce for her. She's fine with taking pills, but even I have trouble with this one!
I can't wait to see if this helps her. I also really need to stay on top of her food intake, making sure to get plenty of protein into her throughout the day. Man, it's SO expensive to eat optimally!


----------



## Brookesmom

Hi Metasequoia, and everyone,

At my last checkup a few weeks ago, my pregnenolone levels were tested and came back really low, so I'm getting 20mg capsules from the compounding pharmacist. I feel like I should take 10 mg to start though since I'm still nursing and already taking 15 mg of hydrocortisone. What do you think?

My hypothyroid symptoms were getting worse and the labs came back lower, so she started me on natural (Armour) thyroid as well. It seemed to help a lot but the past few days I'm dragging again. It's probably too low of a dose. I'll have to call her up.

I feel like it's been so long but I only had the adrenal saliva test 6 months ago I think. My dr. said it would take at least a year to heal. I'm so impatient! I hope to get on a sufficient dose of armour and then wean off the HC, especially if I"m on the pregnenolone since the body can make cortisol from that.

Nothing new... Just checking in...

-Kelly


----------



## Brookesmom

Oh yeah, Metasequoia,

I think my DD might have AF too. She was born from me after all... And nursed. Let us know how your DD does with the supplements. Maybe I should look into that for Brooke.

Glad to hear your appt went well. Are you staying on pregnenolone, and do you get your levels tested and finally, LOL, did they go up pretty quickly with supplementation?

--kelly


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Do you mean hydrocortisone? I wouldn't recommend taking that. Your already stressed body becomes dependent on it & further weakens your adrenals because they decide that they no longer need to make cortisol on their own. Then you have to try to wean off of the hydrocortisone which, many here can tell you, is anything but easy.

I've come a long way using raw glandulars & pregnenolone. 1 year ago I was an anxious mess, now I have absolutely zero anxiety.

If your endo isn't open to other treatments aside from hydrocortisone, I think you should find a new doctor.

My awesome naturopath does phone consults - $2/minute. He'll want you to do the Diagnos-Techs test (he has them & can send one to you - it's $99) & you can go from there. I can't rave enough about my doctor - adrenal fatigue is his specialty & he is a former sufferer so he "gets it."

I'm glad that you're finally getting some answers.

For some of us it was the only way to feel better because our body just wasn't going to make the cortisol we needed. If your body isn't going to cooperate, you have to do something. In some cases your body just isn't going to ever make the cortisol and yes, you will be on hydrocortisone forever. Others do get to wean off if their adrenals actually heal.

Many of us have spent years looking for a doctor who was open to hydrocortisone treatments. I think she's lucky to have found one.

Everyone has to find their own path with this one.







Check out as many adrenal fatigue sites and support groups as you can find and decide what feels right for you.


----------



## MommyHawk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
raw glandulars & pregnenolone

ok, what is this? I'm new to all this stuff and I don't know what the endo is going to suggest. I just know I have results showing something finally...


----------



## bigeyes

And you have to be careful with things like pregnenolone and dhea if you're like me, with menstrual migraines, depending upon where your estrogen levels are. I react to anything that raises estrogen, and both of those can, which gave me killer migraines when I took them. I found out I was estrogen dominant, so now I do progesterone cream, which also has helped up my cortisol.

It's all very complicated, and what works for one doesn't always work for another.


----------



## Manonash

Has anyone read Safe Uses of Cortisol by Jeffries? (I think that's how you spell his name







) The talk about using hydrocortisone made me remember the book.

Ok, also, anyone know which adrenal support things are safe for mercury toxic people who are breastfeeding?

I saw the doc yesterday. I liked her. She spent a whole hour with me and didn't get in any hurry and had been there herself. What was really encouraging is that she said she hasn't needed any supplemental thyoid or other hormones for over 2yrs now. We've got a passle of tests to do, which is kinda stressing me because insurance won't cover about half of it (nearly $2000 dollars worth!). Also, I've got to set up to do most of them, because I am three hours away from her, so............ They are so scattered -- these from Genova, this one from California, these from LabCorp...... ACK!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brookesmom* 
At my last checkup a few weeks ago, my pregnenolone levels were tested and came back really low, so I'm getting 20mg capsules from the compounding pharmacist. I feel like I should take 10 mg to start though since I'm still nursing and already taking 15 mg of hydrocortisone. What do you think?

My ND wanted me to start at 30mg but I insisted on starting at 10mg. I wound up using 60mg/day. I grew a few chin hairs







: so we decided to cut back to 30mg to see if it made a difference. I seem to be good at 30mg/day. I started treatment a year ago exactly when Ds turned 1. At that age, his diet was made up of about 95% breastmilk. I researched, my ND researchedd & neither of us could find any reason not to use it. It's bioidentical & we're just replacing what my body doesn't have right now. After a year of use, I haven't noticed any ill affects in Ds - who is down to about 85% of his diet consisting of breastmilk, lol.

I'd be more concerned about the hydrocortisone which is not natural.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brookesmom* 
Glad to hear your appt went well. Are you staying on pregnenolone, and do you get your levels tested and finally, LOL, did they go up pretty quickly with supplementation?

I've been on pregnenolone for a year now. I had my levels tested a year ago & will test again on Monday. We tested cortisol, estrogen, testosterone, progesterone & DHEA - some other things too, these are just the ones I remember off thhe top of my head. I had *very* low levels of DHEA (everything was really low.)
I still have muscle pain, but my anxiety went away in about 9-10 months. I don't remember ever *not* suffering from anxiety since age 11 or 12!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
For some of us it was the only way to feel better because our body just wasn't going to make the cortisol we needed. If your body isn't going to cooperate, you have to do something. In some cases your body just isn't going to ever make the cortisol and yes, you will be on hydrocortisone forever. Others do get to wean off if their adrenals actually heal.

Many of us have spent years looking for a doctor who was open to hydrocortisone treatments. I think she's lucky to have found one.

Everyone has to find their own path with this one.







Check out as many adrenal fatigue sites and support groups as you can find and decide what feels right for you.

I haven't seen a holistic-minded doc suggest hydrocortisone, it's always listed as a last resort.
I mentioned to my ND just today that I read about so many people who can't get off of hydrocortisone & he just shook his head & said that not many doctors know how to properly treat AF. He's actually going out to Oregon for a conference to help fellow NDs understand AF.

We'll just have to agree to disagree about whether or not she's lucky to have found a doc to prescribe it.
I DO agree that doing as much research as possible is a great idea *before* treatment is started.

This is from Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000, written by Dr. Poesnecker who was a pioneer in treating adrenal fatigue, he also trained my current doctor:

Quote:

Nowadays there is very little chance of ACE being used in this manner since it is unobtainable (and that with is obtainable is not recommended), but in its place doctors are using the sythetic pharmaceuticals such as Cortef and Florinef. These not only will depress the natural adrenal hormones, as do large doses of ACE, but add to this adverse effect the many serious side effects of cortisone on the body. In our own practice we put patients on the synthetic steroids only during obvious emergencies. However, we spend a great deal of time and effort getting patients off steroids that have been prescribed by previous physicians.
(Cortef & Florinef are corticosteroids, aka hydrocortisone.)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyHawk* 
ok, what is this? I'm new to all this stuff and I don't know what the endo is going to suggest. I just know I have results showing something finally...

Raw glandulars come from bovine sources - they're made from the glands like liver, adrenal, thymus, etc.
Pregnenolone is at the top of the hormonal cascade, it's the first hormone our bodies make from cholesterol which is then turned into the sex hormones & adrenal hormones. It is bioidentical.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
And you have to be careful with things like pregnenolone and dhea if you're like me, with menstrual migraines, depending upon where your estrogen levels are. I react to anything that raises estrogen, and both of those can, which gave me killer migraines when I took them. I found out I was estrogen dominant, so now I do progesterone cream, which also has helped up my cortisol.

It's all very complicated, and what works for one doesn't always work for another.

Yep, it's important to have all of your hormone levels tested prior to treatment. All of mine were low, including estrogen & progesterone.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I'd be more concerned about the hydrocortisone which is not natural.

This is from Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000, written by Dr. Poesnecker who was a pioneer in treating adrenal fatigue, he also trained my current doctor:

(Cortef & Florinef are corticosteroids, aka hydrocortisone.)

Raw glandulars come from bovine sources - they're made from the glands like liver, adrenal, thymus, etc.
Pregnenolone is at the top of the hormonal cascade, it's the first hormone our bodies make from cholesterol which is then turned into the sex hormones & adrenal hormones. It is bioidentical.

Yep, it's important to have all of your hormone levels tested prior to treatment. All of mine were low, including estrogen & progesterone.


I'm going to have to check out that book. I know for me the HC has been a godsend, but I'm open to other treatments if there is something better.
It was my understanding that for some of us if the adrenals just would not recover we were going to be stuck with HC because our bodies would not ever produce cortisol, but I get what you're saying about the artificial aspect of it.

Bioidentical or not, taking the wrong stuff is going to mess you up, that's for sure. Getting all of your hormone levels checked is a big part of your treatment and a lot of docs don't get it.


----------



## Metasequoia

I'm so relieved that we can have a discussion about treatment options & not get all







.









You guys are great.


















I think that docs like hydrocortisone because it's a quick "fix" - instant gratification. I hate to say that I think the majority of docs don't care that a patient will have a heck of a time getting off of the meds as long as their bandaid approach has an immediate affect.
To treat naturally will take longer but that's because it's not a bandaid approach, it's treatig the actual source of the problem.

I don't know what constitutes a stage of adrenal fatigue that is severe enough to warrant the use of hydrocortisone in my doctor's opinion, but my results showed I was in zone 7 according to Diagnos-Techs, which is the lowest stage possible.

I'll try to remember to ask him at my next appointment. I'm going to go back sooner rather than later because I'm so excited to see my new saliva test results!


----------



## BeingMe

PLEASE...NEED QUICK ADVICE!!!!

I did my saliva test and tried to do the bloodspot but having some problems. I can't get enough blood to come out. I have 5 tiny drops, and it says on the info to do more than the 8 drops if yuo have tiny drops so I am wayyyy off. The lancet only works once so today I am going to try to find some at a store.
**1st question: where can i find more of the lancets that click like they have?
**2nd question: I have the saliva sitting in the fridge. The info says that putting the saliva in the fridge is recommended before mailing. However, it says that if you are having trouble getting enough saliva to put the tube in the freezer till the next day.
My question is: Because I took the test yesterday(Friday) and won't be shipping it till Monday should I move the saliva tubes to the freezer or just leave them in the fridge?
Please help I am stressing over doing this right.
Thanks,
Shannon


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I'm so relieved that we can have a discussion about treatment options & not get all







.









You guys are great.


















I think that docs like hydrocortisone because it's a quick "fix" - instant gratification. I hate to say that I think the majority of docs don't care that a patient will have a heck of a time getting off of the meds as long as their bandaid approach has an immediate affect.
To treat naturally will take longer but that's because it's not a bandaid approach, it's treatig the actual source of the problem.

I don't know what constitutes a stage of adrenal fatigue that is severe enough to warrant the use of hydrocortisone in my doctor's opinion, but my results showed I was in zone 7 according to Diagnos-Techs, which is the lowest stage possible.

I'll try to remember to ask him at my next appointment. I'm going to go back sooner rather than later because I'm so excited to see my new saliva test results!

In my experience, it's been difficult to even get a doctor to admit adrenal fatigue exists. The place where I learned to treat it with HC was my thyroid group, and the reason you do that is so your thyroid meds actually get used, because when your adrenals don't function properly, your thyroid hormones aren't utilized properly and you continue to be hypo while you get hyper symptoms as well.

For many of us, HC treatment has been a lifesaver, and the adrenal fatigue factor was what kept us from being optimized with our thyroid treatment. Ironically, all thyroid meds state that you should have adrenal issues treated before taking them, but most endocrinologists l (at least in my experience and that of people I've spoken to) augh at you if you ask about adrenal fatigue. They also get pretty pissy when you ask them about information you have found online, but for me, health groups on the internet helped me get my life back after years of being too sick to hold a job for more than a few months at a time.

HC combined with steady increases of natural thyroid hormones did the trick after several years of mainstream endos telling me a small dose of synthroid and some antidepressants were what I needed.







: It's hard sometimes to find the balance between real science and cookie cutter medicine, yk?

What part of the country are you in? I was surprised when in CA that it was so hard to find a doc who was open to the idea that adrenal fatigue existed. Kaiser was completely impossible and I spent hundreds of dollars going outside of plan for treatment. Now, after a year in Hawaii I've found a doctor who not only will treat adrenal fatigue and thyroid issues, but tells me she works closely with an endo at our Kaiser facility here, but it's still going to cost me several hundred dollars to see her a few times. The differences from state to state are just unreal.

I hope in our lifetime this illness gets enough attention that others don't have such a difficult time finding good doctors.


----------



## lastrid

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan* 
PLEASE...NEED QUICK ADVICE!!!!

**2nd question: I have the saliva sitting in the fridge. The info says that putting the saliva in the fridge is recommended before mailing. However, it says that if you are having trouble getting enough saliva to put the tube in the freezer till the next day.
My question is: Because I took the test yesterday(Friday) and won't be shipping it till Monday should I move the saliva tubes to the freezer or just leave them in the fridge?
Please help I am stressing over doing this right.
Thanks,
Shannon

I would put the saliva in the freezer. That's where my test told me to store mine.


----------



## lastrid

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I hope in our lifetime this illness gets enough attention that others don't have such a difficult time finding good doctors.

I agree with you here, but I'm not holding my breath. It's the same thing with systemic candida. I was reading a doctor's website and he called it a fake disease and its treatment "quackery."







:


----------



## Brookesmom

Thanks for the input everyone.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
And you have to be careful with things like pregnenolone and dhea if you're like me, with menstrual migraines, depending upon where your estrogen levels are. I react to anything that raises estrogen, and both of those can, which gave me killer migraines when I took them.

Yikes! I had terrible migraines the last day of my cycles most months. I'm nursing and no AF yet = no migraines. I surely don't want to encourage them. I never knew it could be estrogen dominance... I may have to have my dr. test for them at the next appt. My pregnenolone came in the mail today. I will try tomorrow and see what happens...

-Kelly


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes*
What part of the country are you in?

I'm in PA.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes*
I hope in our lifetime this illness gets enough attention that others don't have such a difficult time finding good doctors.

Yet another reason that I think my doctor rocks, he's traveling around the country trying to educate more doctors.









Re: the thyroid meds, I've read the same thing, that if you take hypo meds before treating the adrenals, you can develop hyperthyroid symptoms. Best to heal the adrenals first, then work on the thyroid. Same goes for Lyme - if your adrenals aren't up to par, you'll never heal from Lyme.


----------



## Metasequoia

Aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! I just ate onions!!!!!!!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I'm in PA.

Re: the thyroid meds, I've read the same thing, that if you take hypo meds before treating the adrenals, you can develop hyperthyroid symptoms. Best to heal the adrenals first, then work on the thyroid. Same goes for Lyme - if your adrenals aren't up to par, you'll never heal from Lyme.

For some of us who got so sick we felt like death from the hypo, by the time we learned about adrenal fatigue we had already been on thyroid meds for years. So we're playing catch-up, which is tricky. Most of us aren't about to go off our thyroid hormones for a year or two at this point.


----------



## Periwinkle

What's wrong with onions?







I just went back and tried to find it. I think I missed something.









I love onions. Hoping there's nothing wrong with eating them.







:


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
What's wrong with onions?







I just went back and tried to find it. I think I missed something.









I love onions. Hoping there's nothing wrong with eating them.







:

Nothing, unless you're doing your saliva test.







Now I have to start over tomorrow.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes*
For some of us who got so sick we felt like death from the hypo, by the time we learned about adrenal fatigue we had already been on thyroid meds for years. So we're playing catch-up, which is tricky. Most of us aren't about to go off our thyroid hormones for a year or two at this point.

I know, I was ageeing with what you said in your last post, about treating the adrenals first. I wasn't suggesting anyone go off their thyroid meds.


----------



## neveryoumindthere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Nothing, unless you're doing your saliva test.







Now I have to start over tomorrow.


do you have more info about the onions thing? My saliva test kit should be here any day now and I eat something with onions in it almost every day. Had no idea I should be stopping?


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 

I know, I was ageeing with what you said in your last post, about treating the adrenals first. I wasn't suggesting anyone go off their thyroid meds.









But if you are to treat your adrenals first, and you don't find out your adrenals are screwed until you've already been on thyroid meds for years, what do you do?

That's what people in my thyroid group are faced with because so many endos know diddly about what they specialize in! So, do you treat your adrenals _while_ taking thyroid meds even though you _should have_ treated adrenals _before_ even starting thyroid meds....or do you start treating adrenals _additionally?_

Nobody ever explains that one. So, the women in my group, rather than go off thyroid meds to treat adrenals, treat adrenals while continuing to treat thyroid, but if a person hasn't started any thyroid hormones yet, they treat adrenals first, then start thyroid.

I just can't figure out what difference it makes since most of us are treating both at the same time.







See what I mean?


----------



## Brookesmom

bigeyes, I think either way is a lot better than ignoring the adrenals! You just do the best you can with the info you have at the time.









I've taken the pregnenolone for 3 days now-- No migraine yet. I'm really hoping they don't pop back up once AF returns.

My daughter brought yet another cold home from school and we're fighting that. So far I'm doing pretty good. The colds always seem to set me way back in terms of energy and body temp, etc... Not fun.

--Kelly


----------



## Manonash

So on the onions, are we just supposed to avoid them the day we are taking the test? What about other alliums? Any other foods we need to avoid? I'm glad you mentioned the onions, because I eat them almost every day too and woulda messed mine up for sure. Thanks!

Well, I'm aggravated about my doc's visit. She spend an hour with me (mostly letting me talk). She was happy to order any test I wanted. One from a California specialty lab, some from LabCorp, and some from Genova. There were signed requisitions for the first two, but none for Genova. The way she does Genova is to have the test kits on hand and you buy them from her, she fills out the requisition and you send it off. I live 3hrs from her and after giving us the pricing, we had to have some time to figure out what we wanted. She told me to just call Genova and tell them call her to confirm the tests I wanted. G won't do that, so i called the doc's office back and asked if they would call G and order the tests for me and have them shipped to my house. They said, "I don't think we do that. Give me your number and we'll call you back". I haven't heard back. So, i guess it's back to square one.

I've got a couple of docs in mind to try next. One is more local, so I'll probably try him first. His website though has a long list of therapies he uses, and that makes me suspicious. Jack of all trades....? Of course, I'm skeptical of allopathy, and skeptical of naturopathy -- I'm just paranoid. ARG!!!!!!!!!


----------



## wife&mommy

Wow I am glad I found this thread! I know I have adrenal issues, then I got pregnant! So I didn't treat while PG and now I'm nursing, and not sure what I can take?
My Dr. gave me Cortrex last year to help with it but I got pg right after that and he said not to take while pg or nursing and doesn't have alternatives. So I need some help!
Does anyone know the best things to improve adrenal's while nursing? I would be so greatful to any help! I am already on Armour for thyroid.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wife&mommy* 
Does anyone know the best things to improve adrenal's while nursing? I would be so greatful to any help! I am already on Armour for thyroid.

I've been nursing the whole time, see the first post. You should really do a 24 cortisol saliva test to see what your levels are before treating.

Ikwym bigeyes, not many docs know what to do about thyroid disease, let alone adrenal insufficiency. I think I'd just treat both simultaneously. I wonder what my ND would do? I met a woman at Clymer who my ND treated for hyperthyroid & AF, she was really, really unwell & is back to "normal" now.

Onions: your test kits should come with specific instructions. Read them a few times before starting. Mine says to avoid onions, garlic, chocolate, broccoli & cauliflower the day of the test. Also, tea, coffee, anything with caffeine. You can't eat or drink anything for an hour prior to each sample, including no brushing of teeth. I might be missing something in the no-no list..but your test should provide that info. I take the Diagnos-Techs ASI test.


----------



## brynlea

Hi Everyone ... I was looking for info on Adrenal Fatigue and just discovered your thread. I read a good deal of it but can't read it all







I have been seeing a nutritionist for 3 years now and from day 1 she said AF. But I didn't listen to her. Took 24-hour saliva and about a hundred blood tests to confirm ... every blood test is borderline normal which y'all know isn't really normal.

We've slowly been adjusting my diet - I am a vegetarian and an extremely picky eater to boot. I feel like crap most of the time but when I eat well, I do feel better. I am have post-prandial hypoglycemia and am hypothyroid. On no meds whatsoever. Been there, done that, didn't work. Cytomel for the thyroid. Taking a host of supplements.

In any case, my question is have any of you experience weight gain that you just can't get rid of? In the past 3 years that I have been seeing my nutritionist, I have gained 40lbs. I am still w/in my healthy limit but now at the top range of it instead of the bottom like I was before. My body image and self-confidence are at an all-time low. I ate approx. 1200 calories a day for a year and gained 10 lbs. Neither she nor my MD that I see for the AF are concerned about the weight gain - they are more concerned with making me better. I am having a hard time convincing them that my weight is a huge stress.

I don't exercise because once I drag myself home from work I have no energy. If I *can* muster the energy, I can only ex for 5-10 min and get dizzy.

Please help if you can ... at this point I would be happy to be 1/2 way back to what I used to be. Just 20 measley pounds


----------



## bigeyes

Yes. My weight has gone up and down like crazy. One week I gained so much people kept asking me if I was pregnant, and _overnight_ I couldn't fit into any of my pants.

Of course my endo wasn't concerned at all.







:


----------



## Mama~Love

OK, here are my results, let me know what I need to do now:

Estradiol (saliva) *1.4 pg/ml* Normal Range: 1.3-3.3

Progesterone (saliva) *12L pg/ml* Normal Range: 75-220

Ratio: Pg/E2 (saliva) *9L* Optimal: 100-500 when E2 1.3-3.3 pg/ml

Testosterone (saliva) *31 pg/ml* Range: 16-55

DHEAS (saliva) *9.6 ng/ml* Range: 2-23

Cortisol Morning (saliva) *3.4L ng/ml* Range: 3.7-9.5

Cortisol Noon (saliva) *1.0L ng/ml* Range: 1.2-3.0

Cortisol Evening (saliva) *0.4L ng/ml* Range: 0.6-1.9

Cortisol Night (saliva) *0.1L ng/ml* Range: 0.4-1.0

Free T4 (blood spot) *1.3 ng/dL* Range: 0.7-2.5

Free T3 (blood spot) *4.0 pg/ml* Range: 2.5-6.5

TSH (blood spot) *1.4 uU/ml* Range: 0.5-3.0

TPO (blood spot)* *20 IU/ml* Range: 0-150 (70-150 borderline)
*for research purposes ONLY

So, my cortisol is really low, suggesting adrenal fatigue? I read the report that came with it, and had a hard time understanding it.

I don't know how to interpret these numbers. Thank you for any help Anyone can give me.


----------



## Metasequoia

It doesn't look like a Diagnos-Techs test result - do you have reference ranges? In the OP, I posted my results from Diagnos-Techs with the reference ranges next to the results.


----------



## Metasequoia

You guys won't believe what I did.









I had to rinse the 2 vials that I used yesterday since I ate the onions & start over today. I completed 3 vials, went out for Thai food & after eating a couple of spring rolls, realized that I had just eaten cabbage!







: Now I have to start over tomorrow. again.


----------



## Mama~Love

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
It doesn't look like a Diagnos-Techs test result - do you have reference ranges? In the OP, I posted my results from Diagnos-Techs with the reference ranges next to the results.

I used the ZRT Combo test. I added the Normal Ranges after my results.


----------



## Maggi315

i know i asked about this before, but have any of you been tested for a pituitary tumor. i ask because I had so many symptoms of adrenal fatigue for so long and then totally crashed, with no idea what was causing it. once I found out I had a tumor that had stopped most production of cortisol and was messing up my adrenals, I could get treated much better.

For instance, I have to be on hyrocortisone, even my naturopath says that it would be dangerous to go off that, I need it. And I also take a very high dose of armour thyroid, 90 mg. even though my levels don't always show the need for that. The endo at yale I saw told me that once you have a tumor, you can't even really rely on the bloodwork but have to dose with the symptoms.

pituitary adenomas are very common, up to 1 in 4 people! The medical community has long said that they are usually "silent" and don't cause problems, but more and more doctors are realizing that these tumors can be the cause of soooooo many problems, many vague symptoms.

I would love to just get mine taken out, but so far, no one wants to do that because it is so small, but mainly because of the location, they would have to cut through alot of healthy tissue and would probably further destroy my pituitary function.

I am getting another mri next week, and if it has grown, will go to hopkins or pittsburgh to discuss radiation options. There is also 2 studies underway that I have applied to be part of. And I have a stack, literally, of tests and procedures that I am supposed to have done.

I am considering doing my dexamethasone suppression test tonight, although most likely it will be normal since I don't have cushings, but secondary adrenal insufficiency, but my endo still likes it done. But since I took my cortisone today, I have to look up whether that will interfer.

I did a spot creatinine the other day which came back low, so I have to do more 24 hour urines, I hate those, and i have to do one while on meds, one off, and one when I can't drink for 12 hours (I have symptoms of diabetes insipidus too so they monitor that.)


----------



## Pookietooth

brynlea, are you doing a low-carb vegetarian diet, or a low glycemic one? For your post-prandial hypoglycemia? Just wondering.

As for your results, mommyofmany, yeah, your cortisol results look low, but so do your estradiol and progesterone. I think that it could be pituitary?


----------



## Mama~Love

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
brynlea, are you doing a low-carb vegetarian diet, or a low glycemic one? For your post-prandial hypoglycemia? Just wondering.

As for your results, mommyofmany, yeah, your cortisol results look low, but so do your estradiol and progesterone. I think that it could be pituitary?

I don't know what they mean







. I was hoping to get some insight from the moms here.


----------



## brynlea

Definitely not low-carb ... no sugar, no white flour, no white rice, no white potatoes, 2:1 carbs to protein. So I think low-glycemic. Haven't done terribly well on cutting out the white stuff but when I do I feel better ... though the weight doesn't respond. Ugh.


----------



## ~*Guest

I had a blood cortisol test done at 9am. My result was 7.5 It said normal is between 6.7 and 22.6 Should I do some other sort of test? Is this indeed normal? Thanks


----------



## lastrid

Quote:


Originally Posted by *brynlea* 
Definitely not low-carb ... no sugar, no white flour, no white rice, no white potatoes, 2:1 carbs to protein. So I think low-glycemic. Haven't done terribly well on cutting out the white stuff but when I do I feel better ... though the weight doesn't respond. Ugh.

Are you eating enough fat? Your body can think it's in starvation mode and keep fat if you aren't eating enough.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newsong* 
I had a blood cortisol test done at 9am. My result was 7.5 It said normal is between 6.7 and 22.6 Should I do some other sort of test? Is this indeed normal? Thanks

You really need to do a 24 saliva test where you test your cortisol at 4 different times throughout the day. Diagnos-Techs offers a good one.

mommyofmany, yea, your cortisol is low all day long, so raw glandulars should help you. I don't know what your BP is like, but if it's low, maybe licorice would help too. I take Dr. Baschetti's licorice extract - it's a powder. I don't know enough about thyroids to say anything about your TSH or free T3 & free T4. Pregnenolone has helped me feel better & I also have very, VERY low estrogen, progesterone & DHEA - your DHEA isn't below normal, so I don't know if pregnenolone is appropriate for you. My DHEA was well below normal.


----------



## Mama~Love

Does adrenal fatigue imapct pregnancy in anyway? I'm hoping for more babies yet, or would that just wear the adrenals out even more?


----------



## lastrid

I've been taking this: http://www.purecaps.com/PDF/pi/ADR_Formula.pdf for about a week now and seem to be seeing some improvement. Anyone else used this?


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lastrid* 
I've been taking this: http://www.purecaps.com/PDF/pi/ADR_Formula.pdf for about a week now and seem to be seeing some improvement. Anyone else used this?

I'm taking a b complex that has a lot of b5 and C in it. My dr said he has some herbs he can recommend depending on what my labwork says. That's great that it is helping you. I feel pretty good, but still TIRED!


----------



## MommyHawk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maggi315* 
i know i asked about this before, but have any of you been tested for a pituitary tumor. i ask because I had so many symptoms of adrenal fatigue for so long and then totally crashed, with no idea what was causing it. once I found out I had a tumor that had stopped most production of cortisol and was messing up my adrenals, I could get treated much better.

how did you find out you had a tumor? what were your symptoms before?


----------



## Metasequoia

I *finally* completed my ASI after messing it up on three different occasions & giving up for a week.







I didn't spend the extra $10 to mail it express mail so I hope it gets there within the required 3 days!!

I found an awseome way to get salt into my body - first thing in the morning, I take a big spoon of applesauce & dump about 2-3 heaping teaspoons of Celtic sea salt on top. Then I cover it with more applesauce & swallow it whole - can't even taste the salt! I feel SO much better after doing this!

I'm happy to be taking the pregnenolone & Mil Adregen again, my brain fog was getting really frustrating. I can't wait for my results!


----------



## Maggi315

I went for a sleep study because I felt like I just wasn't getting any decent sleep, the study showed I woke up 116 times in 6 hours! Since I didn'thave apnea or anything, the neurologist sent me for a MRI of the brain. She suspected a pit tumor, since I had so many symptoms. The pituitary network (not sure their address) has a long list of symptoms, but basically all of the ones that go with adrenal fatigue fit a tumor.

I just did my cortisol again off medicine and was low all 4 times, which was disappointing because I was hoping to cut back on my hydrocortisone, but it looks like I need to stay where I am.

I still feel horrible in the mornings, I don't start feeling well until after dinner usually. I have tried all kinds of supplements and vitamins and herbal sleep aids, and finally consented to trying lunesta, which is helping at all with the sleep. The neuro surgeon we consulted said that unless I start getting some quality sleep I won't lose the weight, feel better, etc.

There are many kinds of tumors, some are nonfunctioning like mine, some produce hormones and can cause a range of things like cushings, etc.

I would love to get mine out, but no one wants to do that since it's small and in a bad place, I get another mri next week, if it grew again, they want to do radiation, however, I learned of a chinese medicine protocol that supposedly shrinks the tumors, it's expensive 400, but it would be worth it to try it first.


----------



## MommyHawk

...


----------



## MommyHawk

need some last minute ideas. I'm about to go see my doc today for my fainty spells again. My body overreacts to stress - I almost passed out driving because I beeped my horn at someone coming into my lane...I almost passed out from twisting my ankle...and I almost passed out from eating a second helping of pasta...

what gives!!!

I have had extensive blood work, even with an endo, and everything shows that I am in perfect health...There was one result saying that I may be 'low cortisol' but then the endo took that back saying that no, I'm fine...

I want to do this saliva test. Any chance that my doc can order it himself and that way my insurance will cover it? How can I bring it up to him?

I'm EXTREMELY irritable. I explode at the smallest thing, my kids are sick of me. I'm sick of me. I've been this way since October last year, my hair falling out, totally exhausted when I wake up till I fall asleep, only to not be able to sleep...I don't want to eat, feel nauseous, but then I need to eat. I'm just not myself AT ALL. I feel like I'm 90yo. I feel like I'm so bitchy. And







: all the time...

what got me in the ER was blood pressure that was UP and then down, heart rate racing above 110bpm - I was totally dehydrated and had NO salt in my system. So now I take salt or add salt to foods to feel somewhat better.

Is this just a part of being a mom? That I'm just overwhelmed, get used to it? This is the way I'm supposed to feel with 2 little kids at home? I used to love it all, I can't stand anything now. I just want to cry. I crave alone time like it's a drug that I can't get enough of...


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyHawk* 
need some last minute ideas. I'm about to go see my doc today for my fainty spells again. My body overreacts to stress - I almost passed out driving because I beeped my horn at someone coming into my lane...I almost passed out from twisting my ankle...and I almost passed out from eating a second helping of pasta...

what gives!!!

I have had extensive blood work, even with an endo, and everything shows that I am in perfect health...There was one result saying that I may be 'low cortisol' but then the endo took that back saying that no, I'm fine...

I want to do this saliva test. Any chance that my doc can order it himself and that way my insurance will cover it? How can I bring it up to him?

I'm EXTREMELY irritable. I explode at the smallest thing, my kids are sick of me. I'm sick of me. I've been this way since October last year, my hair falling out, totally exhausted when I wake up till I fall asleep, only to not be able to sleep...I don't want to eat, feel nauseous, but then I need to eat. I'm just not myself AT ALL. I feel like I'm 90yo. I feel like I'm so bitchy. And







: all the time...

what got me in the ER was blood pressure that was UP and then down, heart rate racing above 110bpm - I was totally dehydrated and had NO salt in my system. So now I take salt or add salt to foods to feel somewhat better.

Is this just a part of being a mom? That I'm just overwhelmed, get used to it? This is the way I'm supposed to feel with 2 little kids at home? I used to love it all, I can't stand anything now. I just want to cry. I crave alone time like it's a drug that I can't get enough of...

let us know how your appointment goes. i don't think that is just part of being a mom. you should get some alone time sometimes of course! sometimes i do feel like no matter how much alone time i get, i crave more! have you tried seeing a therapist for stress and anxiety? that did help me a lot. your emotional and physical well being are connected!


----------



## nichole

i hope i don't have too many multiple posts. mdc is being weird.

what was happening in oct that was a source of stress or a big change?

do you think you could be fighting a virus. i have been taking a long time to bounce back from them lately. i think that is common with adrenal fatigue.


----------



## BeingMe

I just pulled these off ZRT's site. My old labs from last July are
on the left with "quotation marks around them". The new labs are to
the right of the old ones and have **stars** around them. Then after
that is the ranges.
Pretty please look at them and tell me what you think.









Hormone Test "6/29/2007" **3/14/2008** Units Range

Estradiol (saliva) "1.7 Ok" **1.8 Ok** pg/ml 1.3-3.3 Premenopausal
(Luteal)

Progesterone (saliva) "63 L" **49 L** pg/ml 75-270 Premenopausal
(Luteal)

Ratio: Pg/E2 (saliva) "37 L" **27 L** Optimal: 100-500 when E2 1.3-

Testosterone (saliva) "43 Ok" **31 Ok** pg/ml 16-55 (Age Dependent)

DHEAS (saliva) "3.7 Ok" **5.5 Ok** ng/ml 2-23 (Age Dependent)

Cortisol Morning (saliva) "3.4 L" **7.8 Ok** ng/ml 3.7-9.5

Cortisol Noon (saliva)"no old" **0.8 L** ng/ml 1.2-3.0

Cortisol Evening (saliva)"no old" **1.9 Ok** ng/ml 0.6-1.9

Cortisol Night (saliva) "0.1 L" **0.3 L** ng/ml 0.4-1.0

>>>>

Free T4 (blood spot) **1.0 Ok** ng/dL 0.7-2.5

Free T3 (blood spot) **1.9 L** pg/ml 2.5-6.5

TSH (blood spot) **0.7 Ok** uU/ml 0.5-3.0

TPO (blood spot) **21 Ok** IU/ml 0-150 (70-150 borderline)

Didn't do my Thyroid through bloodspot before, but my last blood draw
was:
TSH 2.18 (range .40-4.50)
Free T3 246 (range 230-420)

---I've been on Isocort since last August (4 in the am, 2 in the
afternoon), and T3 meds since last November. Still nursing, but
dunno if that changes things. And was taking Iodoral but stopped in
February.
Please let me know what you think.


----------



## chocomoto

I spent the afternoon reading through all of your posts and I'm still not sure if might have the symptoms of AF or something else altogether. I have an dr appt next week but not expecting the dr to work any miracles. Does any of this sound familiar?

slow pulse ( 60 bpm) and heart palpitations
low blood pressure
fatigue
back ache in the kidney area
slight weight gain (around my waist only)

Thanks for any info!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shannyshan* 
I just pulled these off ZRT's site. My old labs from last July are
on the left with "quotation marks around them". The new labs are to
the right of the old ones and have **stars** around them. Then after
that is the ranges.
Pretty please look at them and tell me what you think.









Hormone Test "6/29/2007" **3/14/2008** Units Range

Estradiol (saliva) "1.7 Ok" **1.8 Ok** pg/ml 1.3-3.3 Premenopausal
(Luteal)

Progesterone (saliva) "63 L" **49 L** pg/ml 75-270 Premenopausal
(Luteal)

Ratio: Pg/E2 (saliva) "37 L" **27 L** Optimal: 100-500 when E2 1.3-

Testosterone (saliva) "43 Ok" **31 Ok** pg/ml 16-55 (Age Dependent)

DHEAS (saliva) "3.7 Ok" **5.5 Ok** ng/ml 2-23 (Age Dependent)

Cortisol Morning (saliva) "3.4 L" **7.8 Ok** ng/ml 3.7-9.5

Cortisol Noon (saliva)"no old" **0.8 L** ng/ml 1.2-3.0

Cortisol Evening (saliva)"no old" **1.9 Ok** ng/ml 0.6-1.9

Cortisol Night (saliva) "0.1 L" **0.3 L** ng/ml 0.4-1.0

>>>>

Free T4 (blood spot) **1.0 Ok** ng/dL 0.7-2.5

Free T3 (blood spot) **1.9 L** pg/ml 2.5-6.5

TSH (blood spot) **0.7 Ok** uU/ml 0.5-3.0

TPO (blood spot) **21 Ok** IU/ml 0-150 (70-150 borderline)

Didn't do my Thyroid through bloodspot before, but my last blood draw
was:
TSH 2.18 (range .40-4.50)
Free T3 246 (range 230-420)

---I've been on Isocort since last August (4 in the am, 2 in the
afternoon), and T3 meds since last November. Still nursing, but
dunno if that changes things. And was taking Iodoral but stopped in
February.
Please let me know what you think.

Do you have your cycles back yet? Just wondering if that could account for the hormonal fluctuations (sex hormones.)

I can't speak to the thyroid #s, I don't know enough about them.

It's good that your DHEA came up. Your morning & noon cortisol looks low & your evening one looks high when you take into account that your morning & noon are low, kwim? The evening number might be "ok" but your body probably feels like it's getting a boost of cortisol in the evening since the previous numbers are so low. How do you feel during the day?

I thought it looked great that your numbers came up but then read that you've been taking Isocort.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chocomoto* 
I spent the afternoon reading through all of your posts and I'm still not sure if might have the symptoms of AF or something else altogether. I have an dr appt next week but not expecting the dr to work any miracles. Does any of this sound familiar?

slow pulse ( 60 bpm) and heart palpitations
low blood pressure
fatigue
back ache in the kidney area
slight weight gain (around my waist only)

Thanks for any info!

Those are definitely all symptoms of AF - I have the belly weight gain too & I am thin as a rail at 116 lbs & 5'9. I swear I could pass for 4-5 months pregnant after a big meal.







:


----------



## quelindo

Here are my Diagnos-Techs saliva test results:

Free Cortisol Rhythm:
7:00-8:00am: 12 *depressed* (13-24nM)
11:00-noon: 4 *depressed* (5-10nM)
4:00-5:00pm: 5 *normal* (3-8nM)
11:00-midnight: 10 *elevated* (1-4nM)

Cortisol Burden: 31 *normal* (23-42)
DHEA: 12 *elevated* (3-10ng/ml)
Progesterone: 25 *normal* (22-100pg/ml)
Total Salivary SIgA: 11 *depressed* (25-60mg/dl)

Apparently I'm in stage 6, High DHEA, one step away from Adrenal Fatigue. My doctor has recommended I take Isocort, two when I first wake up and two more in late morning. I'm also supposed to take 3000 mg per day of vitamin C in divided doses as well as one Ashwaganda capsule twice a day. I'm already on a protocol of other vitamins and minerals, as well as Chinese herbs my acupuncturist has given me as part of my infertility treatment.

Right now I'm still drinking coffee once or twice a day. I really need to stop that. I also need to be better about taking my supplements.

If anyone has any insight or recommendations beyond this I would be grateful. I honestly don't feel too horrible most of the time, but I'd like to do everything I can to obtain great health.


----------



## tanyalynn

I'm just getting back to this thread, it's helpful in so many ways. But I've got a question. How much salt have you needed to take to make a difference in how you feel? I'm trying to get a feel for the range.

And Metasequoia--great tip about the applesauce! I tried the salt in water thing a few days, but it was just too horrible, and I don't think I was really drinking enough to matter anyway. But the applesauce--that's doable! And I'm wondering if that's why I was feeling a bit better yesterday.

TIA!


----------



## Manonash

ditto on the applesauce tip! I really don't like the salt water either. It's ok with the juice of a whole lemon, and once I stop nursing, I'll add the lemon back, but for now, I just can't handle the taste of the salt water. I was putting the salt in a capsule, but it takes a while to get that sea salt into the capsules; the applesauce solution is so much easier.

Speaking of sodium wasting, I have a question and a confession







:

I have been on the biggest sugar binge I've been on in some time -- a few days now














. Mentally, I feel clearer headed on tons of sugar, and I've stopped getting up in the night to go pee, and my hands are swelling, so obviously, I'm retaining more sodium. During these times, should I stop the salt supplementation?

I'm confused about my sugar craving. A number of things could be causing it, but the ones that come to mind are low serotonin, and candida overgrowth in my gut. I lean toward candida overgrowth because a few years ago when I was low carbing, my ovulation date was getting later and later on it because I wasn't getting enough carbohydrate store, and all the mercury in my mouth. I just have almost no symptoms of candida overgrowth: DD and I have never had thrush, I haven't had a vaginal YI in yeeeeeeeeeeeeears. Can you have a massive candida overgrowth and be virtually assymptomatic?

I feel terrible about myself for this. No doubt that the sugar is further harming my adrenals, I just can't seem to stop myself. Will this not get better until I get the mercury out?

Thanks all!
Shonda


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Here are my Diagnos-Techs saliva test results:

Free Cortisol Rhythm:
7:00-8:00am: 12 *depressed* (13-24nM)
11:00-noon: 4 *depressed* (5-10nM)
4:00-5:00pm: 5 *normal* (3-8nM)
11:00-midnight: 10 *elevated* (1-4nM)

Cortisol Burden: 31 *normal* (23-42)
DHEA: 12 *elevated* (3-10ng/ml)
Progesterone: 25 *normal* (22-100pg/ml)
Total Salivary SIgA: 11 *depressed* (25-60mg/dl)

Apparently I'm in stage 6, High DHEA, one step away from Adrenal Fatigue. My doctor has recommended I take Isocort, two when I first wake up and two more in late morning. I'm also supposed to take 3000 mg per day of vitamin C in divided doses as well as one Ashwaganda capsule twice a day. I'm already on a protocol of other vitamins and minerals, as well as Chinese herbs my acupuncturist has given me as part of my infertility treatment.

Right now I'm still drinking coffee once or twice a day. I really need to stop that. I also need to be better about taking my supplements.

If anyone has any insight or recommendations beyond this I would be grateful. I honestly don't feel too horrible most of the time, but I'd like to do everything I can to obtain great health.

Yea, gotta kick that coffee habit.

Isocort doesn't have any cortisol, right? If it's just glandulars & herbs, I say it sounds like a good idea - but if it has any cortisol, JMHO, but I wouldn't. Do you sleep at all with that cortisol spike late at night?? Wow.

Glad the applesauce trick is working for everyone! I found out that salt can have a laxative affect on an empty stomach.







Careful.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Manonash* 
I have never had thrush, I haven't had a vaginal YI in yeeeeeeeeeeeeears. Can you have a massive candida overgrowth and be virtually assymptomatic?

I wonder this too - my last vaginal yeast infection was when I was pg with Dd1 - 9 years ago! We went sugar free on Jan. 2nd, and were totally sweetener free for a month, then I added back raw honey & maple syrup, occasionally using agave nectar & brown rice syrup. I find myself craving these dessert-y foods, but I also have a friend who won't even eat natural sweeteners & she still craves "sweets." She'll make carob fudge with just carob powder, coconut oil & a few drops of stevia to take care of her cravings.


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## Pookietooth

Do you eat sea vegetables? I find if I'm eating enough seaweed, my sugar cravings go away.


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## MommyHawk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I'm just getting back to this thread, it's helpful in so many ways. But I've got a question. How much salt have you needed to take to make a difference in how you feel? I'm trying to get a feel for the range


I take a salt tablet about once every 3 days (I'm quite forgetful) but it seems to give me a pick me up. I salt my food very heavily for dinner. And I drink tons of water and HEED an electrolyte drink. I'm thinking of adding Kambucha tea - does anyone else drink the stuff?


----------



## MommyHawk

so I mentioned the saliva testing to my doc and he looked into it and found a saliva cortisol test and I took it, along with more blood work (some antibody test I think? I don't remember now) anyway, is this going to show ANYTHING???

He was very concerned when I told him that the cortisol injection burned like an SOB and hurt so bad I almost passed out


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## nichole

got my results back! i will have to post them later. the report is long...four pages and i need to study it. i've been at the dr all day and need to eat and do some housework plus play with the kids. I just had to post though!

I have elevated cortisol in the afternoon and evenings. What mom doesn't though? So the b complex, vitamin c, and bioflavanoids are right what i should be taking according to my dr. He gave me some extra zinc and copper to take home. okay he sold it to me









I have to get my thyroid and dhea tested tomorrow first thing.

The report said to exercise. I told the dr how terrible I feel after exercising, but he said that is part of the restorative process. I'm going to research that. I'm hypo and someone here said to do pilates and yoga. Sometimes a walk in the afternoon is fun, but it does wipe me out.

Also there was one more thing recommended to help with the high cortisol, but he said he would have to order it. It is safe for nursing. I will post what it is when I can, but he said just start with the vitamins for now.

My DHEA is not too low, but he said over time it will get too low if I continue like this. I think he kinda prefers the blood work to the saliva tests so that is why he is sending me to get blood work too.

Okay, I'm looking at the results now and the thing I do not have yet, but they are recommending is Pyridoxine 50mg BID. i'm not sure what that means yet. bid? Also I am taking a bioflavanoid extract and this says "free form flavanoids 500 mg BID"

I will definately be back to post later.

My husband is going to build a sandbox and fence it in the backyard so I think that will really help with my stress in the afternoons. Also I could tell yesterday he was really making an effort to help more with the boys during my cranky time. (which is cranky time for him and the kids too! but he was very patient and entertained them while i fixed dinner.)


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## nichole

Okay so I did a little more reading, and I am only in stage 2 of adrenal fatigue. That is good news!


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## Manonash

Nicole, I believe BID means 2x a day. What type exercise you can handle would depend on your level of AF. More strenuous exercise does involve the adrenals. I would guage it on how I felt. If you crash after exercise, it is too much. If you feel worse after exercise, then I'd slow it down with something like yoga as you mentioned before.

Also, be careful with copper. Many AFers are low in Zinc, but copper and zinc levels seem to reflect each other. Many people who have low zinc levels have high copper, and you wouldn't want to take excess copper if this were the case. Supplemental copper can cause problems.

Hooray on the sandbox!


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## Manonash

Found the following quote HERE:

Quote:

Copper Availability is Controlled by the Adrenal Glands
Copper availability is controlled by the adrenal glands, which
stimulate production of ceruloplasmin by the liver. Weak adrenal
glands result in deficient ceruloplasmin synthesis, which in turn
leads to unavailability of copper.
Copper imbalance is very common today for the following reasons:
* environmental copper exposure.

* adrenal gland insufficiency or exhaustion.

* zinc deficiency.

* congenital copper toxicity.

Not sure if exactly what this guy is saying is true, but did find quite a bit of online info about copper being a zinc antagonist. When zinc is low, copper tends to be high. The basic gist is that zinc plays a role in the adrenal glands' copper regulation. When zinc is low, copper may be elevated in the tissues but not bioavailable. The low adrenal function impairs the production of ceruloplasmin (a copper binding protein in the blood) therefore elevating copper tissue levels causing funtional toxicity. I'm not sure if I got that quite right, but the general idea is that copper is a zinc antagonist, so taking it may be a problem for people with AF?


----------



## nichole

hmm well there is 5x the zinc to copper in the supplement he gave me.


----------



## neveryoumindthere

Can anyone help? I just got my results in:

*7-8am 8 *depressed* ref 13-24*

11-12 6 *normal* ref 5-10

4-5pm 4 *normal* ref 3-8

11-midnight 2 *normal* 1-4

Cortisol burden *20* ref 23-42

DHEA 4 *normal* ref 3-10

-mentions at the bottom, "Morning cortisol augmentation, or 11 Beta HSD inhibitors, as in licorice, worth consideration"

also,
Estradiol 31 ref values are all over..but I'm out of range for all but I'm pregnant *shrugs*

Progesterone >1000 (again out of range)

Free Testosterone 38 *elevated* (this is the only one of the three that's flagged)

What does depressed morning cortisol mean for me? I do an EXTREMELy hard time getting up and going in the morning, but I was really surprised the other values were normal, since I have trouble all day long with fatigue. I'll do a few dishes and I'm completely wiped out and need to sit on the couch..
Also, What would elevated testosterone present as symptom-wise?

I was/am pregnant when I did the testing, could that have affected the numbers in anyway. If anythign I feel worse (fatigue-wise), which I really thought was not possible.

Please Help! so confused


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
Can anyone help? I just got my results in:

*7-8am 8 *depressed* ref 13-24*

11-12 6 *normal* ref 5-10

4-5pm 4 *normal* ref 3-8

11-midnight 2 *normal* 1-4

Cortisol burden *20* ref 23-42

DHEA 4 *normal* ref 3-10

-mentions at the bottom, "Morning cortisol augmentation, or 11 Beta HSD inhibitors, as in licorice, worth consideration"

also,
Estradiol 31 ref values are all over..but I'm out of range for all but I'm pregnant *shrugs*

Progesterone >1000 (again out of range)

Free Testosterone 38 *elevated* (this is the only one of the three that's flagged)

What does depressed morning cortisol mean for me? I do an EXTREMELy hard time getting up and going in the morning, but I was really surprised the other values were normal, since I have trouble all day long with fatigue. I'll do a few dishes and I'm completely wiped out and need to sit on the couch..
Also, What would elevated testosterone present as symptom-wise?

I was/am pregnant when I did the testing, could that have affected the numbers in anyway. If anythign I feel worse (fatigue-wise), which I really thought was not possible.

Please Help! so confused

They might be in the normal range, but are still really low. Your overall cortisol burden is low and your DHEA is in the low range. I'm no expert on this, so maybe some one will chime in. I read that after your body has been stressed for so long, you kinda use all your reserves. Like if you go to the bank and constantly take money out, but do not put any back in.


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## Maggi315

my update...had my mri yesterday and it looks like my tumor grew, of course, I'm realizing it's so subjective, there are so many views to look at and measure, that i can see why one doctor says one thing and another has a different opinion.

i ran my cortisol blood at 4, 7, and 12, it came back in the low/right below normal range, that was without medicine. I am trying hard not to have to increase my hydrocortisone. As it is, I feel like I am gaining weight, my stomach hurts, etc. but I don't have much of a choice, I need to take it.

I am trying to find out from some others with these tumors whether taking the adrenal supplements (like in Dr. wilson's book) would be helpful if the root cause is the pituitary, not the adrenals.

I also take two homeopathy formulas, one is called pituitary gland and one is brain formula, not sure if they help, but I figure it's worth a shot. I am looking at chinese medicine, there's a place that will customize it for the tumor, it's expensive at 400.00 but my other alternative is going to be radiation if it continues to grow.

and I don't sleep well at all, what do others do about that? I even got a script for lunesta to try, that doesn't do a thing. My sleep study shows my brain waking up 116 times in 6 hours. i have tried all the herbs I know, relaxation CD's, melatonin, benedryl, klonipin, anti-depressants, and now sleeping pills, and still no sleep. That is probably the worst of everything. Most days if I don't get a nap, I will die. And sometimes when I finally do get to sleep my restless legs kick in, that's horrible too, the only thing that works anymore for that is Requip, if I miss a dose, or run out, I will not sleep, period.

thanks for this thread!


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## Metasequoia

I am SO bummed! I just got my results back in the mail today & nothing much has changed, some is worse & barely any is better!

*Here are my results from 3/07:*

Adrenal Stress Index (ASI) 3/07:

Free cortisol rhythym****** Reference Range

7:00-8:00am - *10 Depressed* 13-24 nM
11:00-noon - *3 Depressed* 5-10 nM
4:00-5:00pm - *2 Depressed* 3-8 nM
11:00-midnight - *2 Normal* 1-4 nM

Cortisol burden - *17* 23-42

DHEA - *2 - Depressed* 3-10 ng/ml

According to the "Cortisol-DHEA Correlation Zone, I am in zone 7 (Adrenal Fatigue), the lowest possible zone - 1 is the highest & is called "Adapted to Stress."

Total Salivary SIgA Reference Range

*5 - Depressed* Normal: 25-60 mg/dl Borderline: 20-25 mg/dl

Gliadin Ab, SIgA - *2 Negative* Borderline: 13-15 U/ml Positive: >15 U/ml

*Here are my results from 3/08:*

Adrenal Stress Index (ASI) 3/08:

Free cortisol rhythym****** Reference Range

7:00-8:00am - *10 Depressed* 13-24 nM
11:00-noon - *<1* Depressed* 5-10 nM
4:00-5:00pm - *3 Normal* 3-8 nM
11:00-midnight - *2 Normal* 1-4 nM

*Further investigation is warranted.

Cortisol burden - *16* 23-42

DHEA - *3 - Borderline* 3-10 ng/ml

According to the "Cortisol-DHEA Correlation Zone, I am STILL in zone 7 (Adrenal Fatigue), the lowest possible zone - 1 is the highest & is called "Adapted to Stress."

Total Salivary SIgA Reference Range

*13 - Depressed* Normal: 25-60mg/dl Borderline:20-25mg/dl

Gliadin Ab, SIgA - *18 Postive* Borderline: 13-15 U/ml Positive: >15 U/ml

*SO*, I'm still in zone *$#@ing 7!! But my anxiety is gone, so something must have improved, somewhere....I am very much looking forward to my appt. next Tuesday. The total salivary SIgA is a sign of immune function, so even though it's still below normal, it did come up a bit.
BUT, I'm reacting too gliadin, which is the protein in wheat & other grains (mistakenly referred to as "gluten") so I need to get rid of wheat & other "gluten" (gliadin) grains. It's okay, I've been gf before without a problem, except I'll miss spring rolls & fried taro.


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## Pookietooth

Metasequoia, I don't know where you live, but around here in the Asian section of stores they have egg roll wrappers that are made of just tapioca flour, water, and salt. And taro is a root -- it doesn't have gluten in it does it?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Metasequoia, I don't know where you live, but around here in the Asian section of stores they have egg roll wrappers that are made of just tapioca flour, water, and salt. And taro is a root -- it doesn't have gluten in it does it?

I have rice wrappers - I just need to make something delicious. But I lurve going to the Thai restaurant & eating their delicious foods on occasion too.

The "Crispy Taro" at the Thai restaurant has a wheat batter coating - sort of like tempurah - that's what makes it crispy....and so delicious.









I actually bought two packs of the rice paper wraps because I planned on making my own spring rolls - I just need to find a good recipe. I figure I'll just julienne some veggies like carrots, shredded cabbage, etc, wrap & fry in sesame oil. I plan on making a peanut-soy dipping sauce, something a bit spicy.
I just make so much food, I want to be able to go out once in a while, yk?


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## neveryoumindthere

Had an AWESOME 1st appointment (1.5 hours long!). I can't believe I've put this off for 4 years. I was on cloud 9 all day long. I finally feel I'm getting somewhere.

Anyway, here are her recommendations for my adrenal fatigue (low a.m cortisol, high testosterone), thyroid health (not currently hypo but have strong family history and postpartum thyroiditis after both previous pregnancies) and keep in mind I'm also currently pregnant and nursing.

1. Maca root -powder or tea form ; at least 1x daily, more if needed, said I should feel energetic very soon with this, even that same day

2. Superneurogen DHA - 1 cap/day

3. Flaxseed Oil 1 tbsp/day

4. Scorbatate by Genestra 1/4 tsp 3 x/day (or Ester-C by SISU 3000mg/day)

5. Nettle Tea (high in Calcium, iron, etc) 1 cup/day

6. Rose Hip Tea (high in Vit. C) -doesnt' say how much.

7. Licorice Root Tea 1 cup every 2-3 days (usually it's 1-3 times per DAY, this rec. was b/c I am pregnant..I have *very* low blood pressure though, so she was not worried about the safety of it while preg. since it was low I could use a boost anyway)

8. Blue green algae OR Kelp Supplement (said to follow directions on bottle)

9. Dulse flakes or actual seaweed (again said to follow directions on bottle)

10. B vitamins (waiting on an email back for the dose)

She also recommended I go on a 7-14 day cleanse and reintroduce dairy, she thinks this is causing my constipation (sorry TMI) since I'm already gluten-free.

She gave me a smoothie recipe to make daily as well:
1 cup fruit
1 tbsp flax seed oil
1-2 tbsps hempseeds
1/2-1tsp maca powder
dates/honey for sweetening
almond or rice milk

She said I should also take acidophilus in a few months, wanted to give my gut more time to heal (Celiac) first and also evening primrose oil especially in the last month of pregnancy to help with PPD.

Sorry I wrote a novel I just hope this will help someone out. I literally sat in my car afterward and cried tears of happiness and just thanked God over and over. It was such a great experience. Finally, someone who will listen!

I'll be seeing her again in a month to follow up..

HTH someone!!!


----------



## BeingMe

Please help me.....
My mother is in pretty bad shape. She had breast cancer in 05 with chemo and radiation and is now in remission. In the beginning of 2007 she tested her adrenals with a naturopath and has been on adrenal supplements and thyroid supplements since then, along with many other's including magnesium and calcium. She did an amino acid/vitamin/mineral test that showed she has some serious deficidiences in selenium, zinc, calcium, magnesium, and more. She didn't stop her supplements for this test which makes me wonder if she had stopped the mag and other vitamin/mineral supplements before the test how low would she have been???
Also, her naturopath now wants to repeat the adrenal test. She again only wants to do the 2x cortisol test because she doesn't believe that taking the 4x cortisol test will affect how she treats my mom. She doesn't believe there's any benefit to taking the 4x a day cortisol test. Furthermore, she doesn't want my mom to stop the adrenals 2 weeks before the test. My mom even asked her and she said no. I tried to talk my mom into stopping it but she argued saying that she is in such bad shape health wise that it will only stress her body more. She also said that by taking the adrenal test while on the meds will tell her if she's on the correct dosage and how her adrenals are doing. I disagreed, but don't know enough to further advise her.
My questions are:
1. Was/is it smarter to test vitamin/mineral/amino while off the supplements, or does it not impact the results?
2. Is the 4x cortisol test better for my mom to take in this situation?
3. Should she stop the adrenals before testing, and if so what else can I say or show her that will convince her?

The naturopath believes my mom has an autoimmune disorder, but has never tested her thyroid for antibodies(she didn't say it was an thyroid autoimmune disorder, but still she hasn't checked). She believes my moms immune system is really struggling, which I believe it is. Her white blood count keeps going down, and showing she is not getting better. I told her to ask about taking the Isocort with echinacea since I had read that taking the echinacea with an autoimmune disorder isn't good and it can lower white blood count. The doc replied with that there haven't been any good studies on it yet and kept her on the isocort.
I am soo frustrated and worried about her health and would really love some help on this. I have read a lot on adrenals but nothing seems to stick in my mind. Please help me.
Thanks,
Shannon


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## MommyHawk

anyone else HAVE to drink coffee in the morning? I never have before, but more and more I'm thinking I need to. I don't fully wake up until after dinner for some reason. What else could I do?


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## BeingMe

Don't do it. It's bad to drink coffee if you have adrenal and/or thyroid problems. Having no energy in the morning and some and night is your adrenals being off.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:

anyone else HAVE to drink coffee in the morning? I never have before, but more and more I'm thinking I need to. I don't fully wake up until after dinner for some reason. What else could I do?
I haven't found any solution other than to accept that I'm going to feel like a train ran over me for a while. My poison of choice is soda, lots of sugar and caffeine, and I am (yet again) giving it up. Some of the other stuff mentioned in the thread can help--1/2 tsp salt hidden in some applesauce helps me, and getting to bed ridiculously early (I need melatonin to get to sleep), but mostly I needed to change my mindset and accept that I need time to heal.

That energy pattern is classic for adrenal problems and works to keep the cycle going--hard to fall asleep at night, need the morning stimulant even more--it's _so_ tough to break.


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## Metasequoia

I kicked the coffee habit over a yea ago & have felt GREAT ever since!!! I had about 3 days of headaches but now I wake up & I'm AWAKE! No morning stupor, no brain fog, I'm just awake & very highly functioning.

Shannyshan, your mom needs to do the 4x/day test. If she doesn't, nobody will know what her cortisol rythym is. My cortisol is low at all times of the day BUT it's much higher in the morning than it is later on, so it still follows the natural circadian cycle, which is good news. I get a big dip around noon & it climbs ever so slightly at 4 & midnight, so I have trouble feeling like I need to go to bed.
If your mom doesn't know what her levels are at all of the times throughout the day, the doc won't know how to treat her accordingly. Can she find a new doc? It doesn't sound like this one is the right doc at all.

As far as supplements, I'm not sure about the minerals, I'd think she needs to be off of them because they'd mess with her blood levels, but it's tricky business testing minerals anyhow because the plasma levels don't always reflect how much of each mineral the body actually has, kwim?

My ND said to stay off the glandulars & pregnenolone just for 5 days before testing but he also said that if I needed to stay on them, it was okay, just to say so on the test.

An excellent resource for you would be to call the Diagnos-Techs lab & ask away - they can say when she'd need to be off of what & for how long. You can actually order the Diagnos-Techs ASI (adrenal stress index) saliva test (4x/day) through Canary Club - I think you just need a doc's signature - not sure - but I think even a chiro can sign for you. Someone else here will know.

**SO, I saw my ND today, it was great!! I'm not bummed anymore! He said he prefers to see a slow, gradual increase in numbers because it's a sign that the body is healing itself rather than the supplements doing it for the body (does that make sense?) He was happy that my DHEA climbed a point & really thrilled that my "Total Salivary SIgA" came up to 13 from 5 a year ago. This is a marker of immune function & my immune responses have mirrored the results perfectly. When I first started going a year ago, I hadn't been sick in years, not even a sniffle despite having three small children with all kinds of typical illnesses. After 6 months of treatment, I got pertussis! Yipee! No seriously, I took it as a sign that my immune system was actually functioning & apparently, it was!

So, I'm back on cloud 9 for the time being. I'm doubling my dose of Mil Adregen & pregnenolone - 2 Mil Adregen in the morning, 2 in the afternoon & 1 in the evening. Pregnenlone back up to 60mg from 30mg. And I need to start taking licorice again - I stopped when I had to cut out dairy, but I'm going to try it with just water & a pinch of salt since the sodium works synergistically with it.


----------



## BeingMe

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Shannyshan, your mom needs to do the 4x/day test. If she doesn't, nobody will know what her cortisol rythym is. My cortisol is low at all times of the day BUT it's much higher in the morning than it is later on, so it still follows the natural circadian cycle, which is good news. I get a big dip around noon & it climbs ever so slightly at 4 & midnight, so I have trouble feeling like I need to go to bed.
If your mom doesn't know what her levels are at all of the times throughout the day, the doc won't know how to treat her accordingly. Can she find a new doc? It doesn't sound like this one is the right doc at all.

Thanks for your reply. Any chance you can give me more help/examples on how the rhythm is really important? I'm having a hard time understanding this.
Thanks!!!


----------



## Metasequoia

Since my rhythm has always remained as it should (just low) I don't know what my ND would do. I would think that if my morning cortisol was really, really low & my nighttime cortisol was really high, he might give me something at night to calm me & something in the morning to support the adrenals. I know that people with high cortisol/anxiety benefit from Seriphos, which I used in the beginning for my anxiety, so maybe that would be something to calm in the evenings?

I don't have any advice other than to try to find a new doc, preferably an ND or at least order the Diagnos-Techs 4x/day saliva test through Canary Club. If you can get an idea of her cortisol levels, you could always to phone consults with Clymer or some other doc who knows what they're doing. It's just so hard to find a holistic doc who actually knows what he/she's talking about so I always recommend my doc since he's the only one that I know is knowledgeable.


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 

**SO, I saw my ND today, it was great!! I'm not bummed anymore! He said he prefers to see a slow, gradual increase in numbers because it's a sign that the body is healing itself rather than the supplements doing it for the body (does that make sense?) He was happy that my DHEA climbed a point & really thrilled that my "Total Salivary SIgA" came up to 13 from 5 a year ago. This is a marker of immune function & my immune responses have mirrored the results perfectly. When I first started going a year ago, I hadn't been sick in years, not even a sniffle despite having three small children with all kinds of typical illnesses. After 6 months of treatment, I got pertussis! Yipee! No seriously, I took it as a sign that my immune system was actually functioning & apparently, it was!

So, I'm back on cloud 9 for the time being. I'm doubling my dose of Mil Adregen & pregnenolone - 2 Mil Adregen in the morning, 2 in the afternoon & 1 in the evening. Pregnenlone back up to 60mg from 30mg. And I need to start taking licorice again - I stopped when I had to cut out dairy, but I'm going to try it with just water & a pinch of salt since the sodium works synergistically with it.

That is so great! I read stage 7 is the hardest to get out of.

Also someone mentioned hempseed oil. I have really been meaning to get some of that. I heard it is awesome.


----------



## Krisa

Hello all, I am new to this thread. I recently turned 40! However, since my father passed away 6 years ago & I endured great stress, I've been . . . ill. I had always been so healthy before. I have fibromyalgia type symptoms, but it's not, or who knows? I have severe muscle pain with tender trigger points, I have a sacro-ileac joint problem that is also severe, as well as chronic fatigue. I also have anxiety, depression, and insomnia all as a result of the pain. I also do not handle stress well anymore. I did have a brief remission early on from the pain due to a cortisone injection which temporarily "cured" my pain long enough to have a baby. After my daughter's birth, the pain soon came back and began to spread and worsen. My fatigue began and worsened. Soon the anxiety hit and insomnia became a problem. At one point my thyroid was borderline, but then returned to normal and I have been naturally supporting it since. However, I have only recently learned my DHEA level is extremely low - scary low. I feel this is a great big piece in the puzzle of my illness - especially the fatigue (not to mention I've aged about 15 years in the past 3 years!). My doctor didn't seen to care (he was in a hurry!). The only thing he did manage to explain was that I could NOT supplement with DHEA because my mother had estrogen precursor breast cancer - therefore I am at increased risk and more so if I were to take DHEA. So I am wondering if anyone here knows about this and can help me understand better and also what I can do to raise my DHEA levels naturally? What other blood tests are I to look into? I just had a bunch done and maybe there were some borderlines I should look at more carefully that didn't jump off the results page. If anyone can help I would so appreciate it. I am desperate and severely suffering. I am saving up money to see an ND soon (I can't believe how much it will cost!). Thank you for your time and any help any of you can offer!


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## FrannieP

Hi Krisa ~

Sorry you're feeling so crummy!
If you'd like to post your labs - including DHEA levels - I'd be happy to have a look at them. Please include ranges.

Once we see what you've had so far we can suggest further tests you will probably want to get. Have you had adrenals tested?

Best,
FrannieP


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
Hi Krisa ~

Sorry you're feeling so crummy!
If you'd like to post your labs - including DHEA levels - I'd be happy to have a look at them. Please include ranges.

Once we see what you've had so far we can suggest further tests you will probably want to get. Have you had adrenals tested?










:


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## mombh

quick question here;

A good friend ordered the saliva test form canary club, intending to do it after her cycle and just found out she is pregnant. Soo, does she still do the test? would it still be accurate on the levels of cortisol? and howbout the hormones?


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## neveryoumindthere

By the time I finally ordered the test, I too, was pregnant. I couldn't *not* take it and suffer any longer so I did it and just wrote on the test paper that I was pregnant.

When I took in the results to my ND (first visit) she was like "Ok everything makes sense, but I can't figure out why your estrogen is so high"...I didn't catch it at that moment and a few minutes later she realized I was pregnant.lol

Other than that, my cortisol levels were all low and my testosterone was high, indicating adrenal fatigue and she listed off things I could take while pg. I posted a few days ago with my list.

HTH!


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## pellifoli

MetaS, glad your ND was able to interpret your results & show you things WERE improved! I thought I noticed some positive change when you posted your updated results & the comparison.

Shannyshan, hope your mom is getting the help she needs.

Krista, sorry you're feeling so crummy.

Well I did the saliva test from Diagnostechs via Canary club, as well as one via Neurosciences (1 tube in a.m) that my gynecologist ordered. When I described my symptoms to her she wanted to put me on an SSRI, and give supplements to boost my serotonin, as she thought I had no serotonin to speak of, so I spent most of appt discussing Antidepressants w/her & that I didn't think that was problem. I was convinced it was thyroid, but my thyroid came back low normal, however the test that she ordered showed high DHEA & low normal cortisol, which she noted as a sign of adrenal dysfunction. So YAY at least something's showing up (Diagnostechs however shows DHEA as normal???). I haven't had a chance to see her again, had to cancel an appt & reschedule due to childcare, and she can't see me until the End Of MAY! I'm very frustrated by that. my dizziness has increased a lot lately, and the other weekend, I was just toast after mowing the lawn, took me days & days to recover. I am seeing an acupuncturist who comes highly recommended on Friday. Am nervous about that & hopeful but scared of hoping it will help.

So, here are my Diagnostechs results. Any insight or thoughts you have would be mightily appreciated, take care of yourselves mamas.

TIME results range
7-8am 14 Normal 13-24 nM
11-12noon 3 Depressed 5-10 nM
4-5PM 2 Depressed 3-8 nM
11:00 - Midnight 2 Normal 1-4 nM

DHEA 5 Normal Adults (M/F): 3-10 ng/ml

Cortisol Burden: 21 23 - 42

(I *think* I'm in stage 5. Maladapted, low reserves, but the chart isn't so clear.)

Patient Result Interpretations
Marginal HPA axis performance during the day may be associated with suboptimal hypothalamic pacing of adrenals. Adrenal support suggested.

Hormones:

Estradiol results: 9 Reference, Luteal: 7-20
Progesterone results: 524 Reference, luteal: 65-500
Free Testosterone results: 17 Normal Normal: 8-20

(no comments included on Estradiol & Progesterone results, but progesterone seems high.)

NOW, in saliva test my gyn ordered, a totally different reference was used & measurements looked different:

Estradiol .8 Ref. .2-5.0 low normal
Prog. .128 Ref. 1.0-.500 low normal
DHEA 517.8 Ref. 200-400 high
cortisol 5.4 Ref. 7-10 (for 7am and sample is from 8:45 heading for range of noon, 3.0-6.0)

from what I've read, even though my thyroid came back low normal (Free T-3 & T-4, and TSH) if my cortisol is low, that impacts whether the T-3 & 4 can get used by cells, so it may boost what's showing up in my blood because it's not being used.

Any recommendations on other tests, or what I can do to help with dizziness?


----------



## Metasequoia

Lisa,

I'd trust the Diagnos-Techs results - that's great that your DHEA is a 5! Do you feel a little buzzy at bedtime? The fact that your levels are so low in the afternoon & evening & then normal at nightmakes your body think it's time to par-tay (or clean, lol) when you should be going to sleep. That's how it is for me.

I'm no expert, but I'd think that some good adrenal support, rest & stress reduction would have you on the mend.


----------



## pellifoli

MetaS, yes, while my cortisol measures "normal" in the evening, it comes up enough that I *finally* have some energy, and frequently end up trying to get some stuff done so the next day doesn't totally suck.

the acupuncturist I'm meeting on Friday has a rep for being great w/endocrine problems, so fingers crossed! I've really been feeling crummy this week.

thanks for the feedback!


----------



## Mama~Love

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
Had an AWESOME 1st appointment (1.5 hours long!). I can't believe I've put this off for 4 years. I was on cloud 9 all day long. I finally feel I'm getting somewhere.

Anyway, here are her recommendations for my adrenal fatigue (low a.m cortisol, high testosterone), thyroid health (not currently hypo but have strong family history and postpartum thyroiditis after both previous pregnancies) and keep in mind I'm also currently pregnant and nursing.

1. Maca root -powder or tea form ; at least 1x daily, more if needed, said I should feel energetic very soon with this, even that same day

2. Superneurogen DHA - 1 cap/day

3. Flaxseed Oil 1 tbsp/day

4. Scorbatate by Genestra 1/4 tsp 3 x/day (or Ester-C by SISU 3000mg/day)

5. Nettle Tea (high in Calcium, iron, etc) 1 cup/day

6. Rose Hip Tea (high in Vit. C) -doesnt' say how much.

7. Licorice Root Tea 1 cup every 2-3 days (usually it's 1-3 times per DAY, this rec. was b/c I am pregnant..I have *very* low blood pressure though, so she was not worried about the safety of it while preg. since it was low I could use a boost anyway)

8. Blue green algae OR Kelp Supplement (said to follow directions on bottle)

9. Dulse flakes or actual seaweed (again said to follow directions on bottle)

10. B vitamins (waiting on an email back for the dose)

She also recommended I go on a 7-14 day cleanse and reintroduce dairy, she thinks this is causing my constipation (sorry TMI) since I'm already gluten-free.

She gave me a smoothie recipe to make daily as well:
1 cup fruit
1 tbsp flax seed oil
1-2 tbsps hempseeds
1/2-1tsp maca powder
dates/honey for sweetening
almond or rice milk

She said I should also take acidophilus in a few months, wanted to give my gut more time to heal (Celiac) first and also evening primrose oil especially in the last month of pregnancy to help with PPD.

Sorry I wrote a novel I just hope this will help someone out. I literally sat in my car afterward and cried tears of happiness and just thanked God over and over. It was such a great experience. Finally, someone who will listen!

I'll be seeing her again in a month to follow up..

HTH someone!!!









Where did yo u get all of that at? I need to order new supplements and would like to get them all in one place.


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## neveryoumindthere

I ordered most of it from www.iherb.com their prices are awesome!


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## MommyHawk

what do you take for your AF if you are self medicating (vitamins, herbs, physical activity, diet changes)

I am not sure my doc will ever find anything 'wrong' with me, but I have to do something. I don't have the money to get that $100 saliva test or to go to a naturopath, so I need to start self-medicating (for lack of a better way of saying it) so that I can take care of myself since NOTHING is showing up as being out of the normal. I'm sick of the blood tests and co-pays!

what do you do?


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## Krisa

Hi! It is me from post #773. I've now managed to get a hold of my lab results (16 pages long). I'm not sure what all we want to look at, so I thought I'd start off with some hormones (drawn on 2/6/08 around 5 pm):

Test / Unit / Reference Range / Result:


> Free T4, NG/DL ( 0.8 - 1.8) = 0.8
> Free T3, PG/ML (2.3 - 4.2) = 2.8
> TSH, UIU/ML (0.27 - 4.20) = 1.20
> DHEA, UG/DL (40.0 - 500.0) = 46.4
> Cortisol Total, UG/DL (0.00 - 63.0) = 4.5


Thanks for any help you can offer!


----------



## Krisa

Hi! It is me from post #773. I've now managed to get a hold of my lab results (16 pages long). I'm not sure what all we want to look at, so I thought I'd start off with some hormones (drawn on 2/6/08):

Test / Unit / Reference Range / Result:


> Free T4, NG/DL ( 0.8 - 1.8) = 0.8
> Free T3, PG/ML (2.3 - 4.2) = 2.8
> TSH, UIU/ML (0.27 - 4.20) = 1.20
> DHEA, UG/DL (40.0 - 500.0) = 46.4
> Cortisol Total, UG/DL (0.00 - 63.0) = 4.5


Thanks for any help you can offer!


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## erin_brycesmom

Hi mamas, I want to order a saliva test but I had a miscarriage at 18wks 3dys about 2.5 weeks ago. I can feel my thyroid going crazy like it always does in the postpartum period. I have been reading on some other adrenal fatigue/thyroid boards and was suggested that I should wait a while before doing the saliva test until my hormones settle down from the pregnancy to give a more accurate picture. How long would you wait? Or would you wait at all?


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## MommyHawk

this stuff looks promising - does anyone take this?

Super Adrenal Stress Formula
Formulated by Dr. James L. Wilson


----------



## Annikate

: Jumping in here and have not read this GIANT thread yet.

Yesterday I went to a chiro for the very first time







and my x-ray showed decalcification on my thyroid.

Does anyone have any first-hand experience with this that can tell me what this means (or may mean) to me.

I did a google search and well, yk how that goes. Mostly doom and gloom. And I sure as heck aren't going to go running to the regular doc for all kinds of tests, biopsies, etc.

Thanks mamas.


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## Metasequoia

How's everyone doing? I've stayed offline for the past couple of weeks & it's been a nice break. I feel so much better, mentally & physically, when I avoid the 'puter.

I've been doing some serious power-walking the past few days & it feels good! I don't get lightheaded at all!

I've *finally* gained back all of my weight since Ds was born 26 months ago - I'm even a few pounds over my highest weight!









OH!!! And I *finally* got my cycles back!!! I was simultaneously dreading the return & also looking forward to it, wondering if it would help my hormones to level out. My ND has been anxious for my cycle to return, so he must think that it will help me feel better. It wasn't even that bad! Little to no cramping, bleeding was minimal & not long - I hope it stays this way! But the ovulation, holy crapamole - my body is WANTING to make a baby!







All of my kids are almost exactly 3 years apart & Ds is 26 months, all were conceived in the spring, so my body is wondering what I'm waiting for. But....I know I need to heal before I can even think about whether or not another baby is in my future.

Hope all of you are enjoying the spring weather & feeling good!


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## BeingMe

I try to take breaks too. It really does help.
I know what you mean about ovulating, I'm right now and my body is very achy(sp?). But I need to wait to. I have to get surgery to remove my tori under my tongue, and need to heal my adrenals/thyroid first.
I am really looking forward to being pregnant and in much better condition. I'm also really excited to give birth again, as crazy as it sounds.


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## CharlieBrown

bumping


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## MissyH

I have AF and I am wondering about symptoms that everyone has. Does anyone else get tingling in hands and feet and joint pain? The tingling seems somewhat related to my hypoglycemia, but it persists even if I eat right, but the joint pain is new (it's minor pain, not incapacitating). I also get muscle weakness and weakness/numbness in my pinky. My ND said that I look like I might be deficient in B12, but not enough to have any symptoms from it. Since my hypo is more or less under control and I still have the tingling I was thinking that maybe I do have symptoms from B12 def. Anyway, just curious. These symptoms drive me nuts.







I haven't had a chance to go through all those posts yet...


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## FrannieP

Joint pain is very common in Adrenal Fatigue.

The tingling you describe is also very common in B12 deficiency.

Symptoms of B12 Deficiency..

Do you know what your levels were?

A healthy range for an adult is 800 - 1000.


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## MissyH

Thanks for your two cents Frannie. It's good to know that the joint pain is normal for AF. The thing that's weird is that I didn't notice it until after I started on Isocort.

I didn't have any levels taken for B12, but I know my results for the cortisol/DHEA. I'm in zone 5 for that. My ND had me do a CBC and metabolic panel and could tell by looking at those results that I'm probably deficient in B12. He's on vacation for 2 weeks, so we'll figure out what to do when he comes back. For now I'm taking my dessicated liver tablets to see if that helps. Frankly I would like to try B12 shots and see if that improves anything. It's the only thing that makes sense to me at this point.


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## FrannieP

How's your thyroid?

I agree the B12 shots are best.
If you don't want to wait til MD gets back you could start some sublingual 5000 mcg methylcobalamin (b-12) - maybe 1k at a time 5 x's daily? Just watch out for thyroid dumps if you are hypo b/c B12 can help the body absorb thyroid hormone better.

When you can, if I were you, I would want to get actual lab results for:
B12
Ferritin
sodium
potassium
aldosterone

how was your DHEA?
sex hormones?

All these things get out of whack with flagging adrenals and all can cause joint pain.
It's quite a puzzle!


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## MissyH

I was thinking about possible doing more labs, like you said. I'm just going to wait until he gets back to do anything else. 2 weeks isn't really that long to wait.

My DHEA was low, morning cortisol was normal, the rest were all low. He didn't test for sex hormones. Sodium and potassiium were normal, but on the low end of normal. No aldosterone, ferritin, or B12.

I've been reading a lot about B12 and I'm shocked at how many people are deficient! I really hope that's what's going on. If I could get rid of the tingly stuff I might actually feel 'normal'ish.


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## FrannieP

Yeah, B12 deficiencies are really common - especially in childbearing women with metabolic disorders.

You may find you need to address other adrenal hormones - not just cortisol.

_Symptoms of DHEA deficiency may include persisting fatigue,
depression, anxiety, hypersensitivity to noise, loss of libido,
dry eyes, skin, and hair, loss of head hair, axial (armpit)
hair, and pubic hair._

And of course DHEA levels effect sex hormones.

If you do have low aldosterone it is common for symptoms to appear once you are stabilized on cortisol replacement so I would watch for that.

Aldosterone, controls the balance of sodium and potassium. Low aldosterone can result in low blood pressure and high pulse due to lower blood volume from lack of sodium. Other symptoms include muscle twitches and even cardiac arrhythmias (heart palpitations). Aldosterone inhibits the level of sodium excreted into the urine, controlling the vital balance of electrolytes. People with low aldosterone sufferer from "Salt Wasting", a medical term describing sodium leaving the body. When sodium is excreted it takes water with it, causing frequent urination and dehydration.


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## MissyH

Wow Frannie, thanks for all the great info! I didn't know all of that. How do you know all this?


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## Mrs_Hos

I'm SO GLAD to have found this thread! I've been off-line here for the most part for a few months...just getting back into the swing of things and it is AWESOME to know that I'm not alone with adrenal fatigue!

About me:
Mom of 2--5yo dd, 18mo ds (homebirth!! yay)
I felt 'crazy'...like I couldn't control my exhaustion/irritability/anger. So I went to a naturopath...among other food sensitivities etc, she noticed adrenal fatigue and mentioned pure encapsulations. I consider it a wonder drug...I feel normal now. HOWEVER...I think it is like anti depressants in a way--some days I will forget to take the pills, or feel I don't need it...I'm 'fine now'...then 2-3 days go by and I become a holy terror to my family. I really act boarderline abusive (verbally) and resort to slamming doors (the anger side) or I have evenings where I slur my words I'm so tired (exhaustion). I also wake up feeling exhausted even after 10hrs of sleep (or 6 or 8 etc).
I'm on pure encapsulations adrenal formula...and taking prenatals
I'm nursing almost exclusively...ds eats some carbs, some fruits, but mostly bm.
I just got my first period back this month. I haven't noticed much more changes with that other than like a previous poster I have noticed a bit more sex drive (my body says it's ok to make another baby...but my brain isn't quite there yet! hahahah)

I get annoyed that people say I'm too busy or that I don't get enough sleep...I actually feel I get enough sleep and am sometimes even LAZY! (as lazy as a mom can be)... I feel I have a pretty good diet...but I was under the impression that salt was not my friend...although I am a self-proclaimed salt-aholic...

I have tried to exercise...but my body is just too tired most of the times. EVEN with the pills (which are bovine adrenals_

SO...I will go back and read through all of these posts...I'm so glad I'm not alone!


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## maciascl

Hmmm...I remember looking at this thread along time ago, but didn't keep up with it. I am going to the Dr Tue to have my thyroid checked, finally. I am now starting to wonder if I should have other things checked too.


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## krankedyann

I just finished reading the.whole.thread. It made me tired- took me two days. LOL It's amazing to me how quite a few posts sound like I could have written them myself.

So, in 2006 I had severe symptoms of adrenal exhaustion, down to the anxiety attacks, extreme cold, hair loss, blacking out when standing and bright pink clown cheeks Dr. Rind talks about on his website. My adrenals crashed when I was diagnosed as celiac and came off of gluten. On Dr. Rind's matrix, I fit adrenal and have only a couple mixed symptoms and no thyroid symptoms.

So it's been almost 2 years since I went off of gluten. I still have symptoms of AF, but not nearly so severe as it was summer 2006. So tonight I ordered the Canary Club combo kit from ZRT. I found a local chiropractor who can help interpret it and get me on the right supplements. I joined the adrenals yahoo group, and if we don't get good help locally we will go see Dr. Rind in DC.


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## Metasequoia

KerryAnn, you & I were sisters of misery in the summer of '06, eh? That was when the [email protected] hit the fan for me too, my poor adrenals bit the dust.

My first ASI, in early March of '07, showed no gluten antibodies. In January of '08, I did skin allergy testing & gluten came up mildly (they said I should rotate it.) Then I did my second ASI in March of '08 & had quite a reaction to gluten this time around.

I'm now gluten free but haven't noticed a difference. I don't have any obvious reactions to any of the foods - I had to completely eliminate tomatoes, kidney beans, cauliflower, green peas, pork & turkey - but didn't have any noticeable reactions back when I was eating them, 6 months ago. My only complaint, other than the adrenal symptoms of chronic achey muscles, occasional joint pain & occasional fatigue & brain fog is THE ITCHING! Something makes my upper arms itch like mad.
Poor 2 year old Ds too - little guy has scars up & down his arms from scratching them bloody.

It's SO hard to figure this stuff out. I keep a detailed food journal for both of us.


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## nichole

Somebody on this thread or the thyroid thread was talking about there being a connection with the liver and the adrenals. I'm really excited b/c I just picked up some astragalus tea to cleanse my liver. I got some milk thistle too. I read on kellymom that these are safe while nursing. I think I'm going to start the tea first and then after a week, start taking the milk thistle too.

I also bought a magnesium and calcium supp. I wasn't sure what kind to get. I wanted natural calm, but it only has mag?? I'm confused about that, b/c I thought you took the two together. I get really stressed and I'm not sure if it is a physical thing or my thoughts getting the better of me. I really need to work on not obsessing over housework.

Also with a heavy heart I am quitting cloth diapers. I have really bad anxiety about laundry. YOu do what you gotta do, i guess.


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## MommyHawk

who is Dr. Rind in DC???


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## krankedyann

www.drrind.com He has been a speaker at the Weston A Price Foundation conference before on AF, which is how I found him.


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## krankedyann

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
My first ASI, in early March of '07, showed no gluten antibodies. In January of '08, I did skin allergy testing & gluten came up mildly (they said I should rotate it.) Then I did my second ASI in March of '08 & had quite a reaction to gluten this time around.

I did the testing at www.enterolab.com. The reason it took us so long to finally figure this one out is that for me, an adrenal reaction and a gluten reaction have only one symptom difference. I never knew that AF could cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. For a long time, we tried to figure out what was going on and kept on eliminating more and more foods. Looking back on it, I now think it might have been AF and not a food allergy on a couple of things.

Quote:

My only complaint, other than the adrenal symptoms of chronic achey muscles, occasional joint pain & occasional fatigue & brain fog is THE ITCHING! Something makes my upper arms itch like mad.
I guess I'm lucky in that I don't have itching problems except in one spot. It's annoying, but livable. I never knew that was a symptom, either, until I read this thread.

I'm quite grateful to have found this thread. I know I'm not near as sick as I used to be, but it just didn't make sense that celiac would take this long to heal.

The doctor here in Asheville that I'm going to go see recently did a newsletter issue on AF- http://www.gsmcweb.com/wp-content/up...mayjun2008.pdf I'm so hopeful that I'm finally going to get help!


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## FrannieP

KerryAnn ~

You should get a ribbon for reading this whole thread!







LOL

I want to read the newsletter by your doctor but think opens a blank page. Would you mind checking the link and reposting - or if there's a html page perhaps?
Thanks!


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## krankedyann

Try this- http://www.gsmcweb.com/?page_id=6 It's the April/May/June 2008 newsletter.

I just called and got an appointment with him for mid-July. I'm hoping that will give enough time for my test kit to get here, me take the test and get the results before my appointment with him.


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## FrannieP

Thanks - that link opened right up.


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## nichole

Thanks for the link. It mentions at the end astragalus root which I just started taking. I got it in a tea form for just a few bucks from the vitamin shoppe. I hope it helps!


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## krankedyann

Has anyone here used HC? I'm curious as to how long it took you to get off of it.


----------



## Cupressa

Hi everyone! I haven't read the entire thread yet, but I wanted to jump in and ask some questions.

I did the ASI about a year and a half ago, and was given the 'low adrenal, non-adapted reserves' diagnosis. I was given licorice solid extract, and Standard Process Drenatrophin PMG, but only last month started getting serious about taking them. Last month my ND started me on DHEA, which I've had a mixed reaction to.

I wanted to ask if any of you are currently taking cortisol, and how you made the decision to go on it? My ND says that unlike the thyroid, the adrenals don't bounce back very quickly after discontinuing cortisol therapy. I don't know if that matters when I can barely function, but if it will adversely affect long term healing then maybe I should keep plodding along this way a little longer? (I'm hypothyroid, also--taking thyroid.)

Also, in the beginning of this thread there was talk about needing salt vs. potassium. Is there any recommendation for sea salt/sodium dosage?

Thanks! I am encouraged to find others to share with while managing this illness.


----------



## krankedyann

I don't know what the recommended dosage is, but I've been getting significant relief from my low blood pressure and blacking over when standing up from taking 1/2 tsp first thing in the morning in a glass of lemon water, and again in the afternoon.


----------



## clewal

Funny I found this thread. I went to a NP last year-the doctor she works for is a regular doctor, but they both deal mainly with alternative therapies-because I wanted my thyroid checked. My thyroid came back in the normal range, but low, so she wanted to check my adrenals. I like to say my adrenals are quite tired. Well, they are tired until about 4 in the morning when they start pumping out quite a bit of Cortisol. Of course the results were from 6 months ago, so they would probably be lower now (we moved and I just couldn't remember to make an appointment to get them).

I did some reading yesterday and decided to go ahead and try a gluten free diet. It couldn't hurt and I'll see how I feel in 8 weeks when I go back. I'm not expecting them to get better overnight, even though it would be nice. I just want to feel like my old self again.


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *clewal* 

I did some reading yesterday and decided to go ahead and try a gluten free diet. It couldn't hurt and I'll see how I feel in 8 weeks when I go back. I'm not expecting them to get better overnight, even though it would be nice. I just want to feel like my old self again.

I'm doing this too. PLEASE let me know if it helps you. I do feel better, but there are a lot of changes I made so it is hard to say what did it.


----------



## MissyH

So what does adrenal fatigue have to do w/gluten? I havent' heard this before. Can you clue me in?


----------



## krankedyann

They're both auto-immune based. This study talks about the association between the two- http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/rap...007-0960v1.pdf

In my case, I believe my immune system attacked my adrenals after I came off of gluten and it no longer had to attack my small intestine.


----------



## MissyH

Thanks for the article. I can totally see how Addison's and celiac would come hand in hand.

Have you read anything about adrenal fatigue and celiac? The article is talking about Addison's only (unless I missed something), which is a much more severe situation than Adrenal Fatigue. I know that Addison's is autoimmune, but I've never heard about adrenal fatigue being autoimmune. Everything I've read links it to chronic stress. I hope you don't mind me asking, I'm really curious about this.







I've thought about giving up wheat recently too because it seems to make my hypoglycemia worse.

Thanks for any info.


----------



## clewal

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
I'm doing this too. PLEASE let me know if it helps you. I do feel better, but there are a lot of changes I made so it is hard to say what did it.


Will do.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:

So what does adrenal fatigue have to do w/gluten? I havent' heard this before. Can you clue me in?
I got a big boost by starting to eat gfcf (no gluten or casein). Mercury has a propensity to mess up the endocrine system, and the mercury in my amalgam fillings was involved with my hypothyroid and adrenal fatigue.


----------



## Cupressa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krankedyann* 
I don't know what the recommended dosage is, but I've been getting significant relief from my low blood pressure and blacking over when standing up from taking 1/2 tsp first thing in the morning in a glass of lemon water, and again in the afternoon.

Thanks! Do you also salt your food to taste, or do you salt liberally? I haven't been eating much salt lately, and I was also taking a supplement with potassium, and I wonder if that is why I had so little energy last month.


----------



## krankedyann

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cupressa* 
Thanks! Do you also salt your food to taste, or do you salt liberally? I haven't been eating much salt lately, and I was also taking a supplement with potassium, and I wonder if that is why I had so little energy last month.

I take in 1 tsp per day in my water and liberally salt my food on top of it and avoid foods that I know to be high in potassium.


----------



## Mama~Love

Hey, here's an update on me!

After the crappy visit I had with a regular GP doctor here, I told him I wanted a referral to an endocrinologist. So that got set up, and I saw the endo on May 28th. He was VERY nice, and actually listened to me & my symptoms. He even looked at my results from ZRT Labs with interest, instead of blowing them off like the other doctor did.

Then he wanted to do a bunch of blood tests, which had to be done fasting and around 8am. I got those done yesterday morning (about 5 vials of blood!). The endo said he should have the results in 3-4 days, but probably Monday now because of the weekend.

I hope something good comes of this, and that I can start getting better.


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## SUNMAMA

Hi. I've read most of the thread and just got back my lab results from ZRT. I'm hoping y'all can help me make sense of it all. I really don't know what to think.

I'll start with the cortisol levels:
M: .4L (3.7-9.5), these are their normal ranges in ()
N: .1L (1.2-3.0)
E: .1 (.6-1.9)
N: .2 (.4-1.0)

My estradiol is 3.1 (1.3- 3.3)
progesterone: 77 (75-270)
Ratio PG/E2: 25L (100-500)
Testosterone: 71H (16-55)
DHEAS 11.9 High for my age

Free T4: .8 optimal 1-2.5
Free T3: 4.1
TSH: 2.3 normal
TPO: 35

I think this is all. ZRT said I should retest my cortisol levels to rule out Addison's disease. Is this really a possibility, I'm pretty clueless and just starting the research, I'm pretty scared of the possibility of AD.
I started taking pantothenic acid and 1/4 t salt plus some adrenal stress capsules. I am exhausted almost all the time and have done a candida cleanse in hopes of feeling better and have been on the candida( low carb) diet for over a year and still feel crappy alot of the time, which has brought me here to the adrenals/ thyroid.
Please help. THankyou so much!


----------



## Cupressa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krankedyann* 
They're both auto-immune based. This study talks about the association between the two- http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/rap...007-0960v1.pdf

In my case, I believe my immune system attacked my adrenals after I came off of gluten and it no longer had to attack my small intestine.

Could you explain this? Do you think that your body is searching for a way to attack itself? I realize that auto-antibodies are a factor in both CD and AD, but usually you hear that if you lessen the load on the immune system, e.g. stop eating a food you're allergic to, then it calms down and auto-antibodies decrease.

It seems that if you have CD your adrenals could simply have been worn out from fighting the supposed foreign invader (gliadin), since cortisol output increases when the body is fighting infection (or something it thinks could be infectious).


----------



## Cupressa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krankedyann* 
I take in 1 tsp per day in my water and liberally salt my food on top of it and avoid foods that I know to be high in potassium.

Thanks again, krankedyann!


----------



## Cupressa

Hi SUNMAMA,

I don't know much about Addison's Disease, but your cortisol levels do seem very low. Perhaps you could consult with the ND who takes calls from all over?
He seems very good. I think if you looked at the original post you could find contact information.

I hope you get the help you need!


----------



## MommyHawk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krankedyann* 
www.drrind.com He has been a speaker at the Weston A Price Foundation conference before on AF, which is how I found him.

yikes, first visit is over $400 out of pocket!!! oye, back to the drawing board.


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## krankedyann

If you have insurance, you can submit it for reimbursement as out-of-network.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cupressa* 

It seems that if you have CD your adrenals could simply have been worn out from fighting the supposed foreign invader (gliadin), since cortisol output increases when the body is fighting infection (or something it thinks could be infectious).

I agree with this. If you're eating foods that you're body is reacting to, it's a form of physical stress. Physical stress, emotional stress - it's all just plain stress to our adrenals & it wears them down.


----------



## krankedyann

I had other signs of auto-immune problems at the same time, I didn't just have CD going on when I went off of gluten. That's why I think my immune system actively attacked my adrenals and not just exhaustion from being worn down.


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## gemphx

Hi all -
I have just found this forum, and have been reading for several days.
After battling hypothyroidism for almost 20 years, but declining steadily all that time, I think I now understand that I have adrenal fatigue, and they are feeding off each other, each getting worse.
For all these years I have been telling doctors that I know there is something wrong, and they all want me to admit to depression! I refuse as I'm not at all depressed.
Over these years my energy has declined, my patience is shot, sex drive? What is that? And the whole list that you are all so very familiar with.
I was recently fortunate enough to find a doctor to listen to me, and ordered a complete - and I mean complete (24 hour urinalysis) of every hormone in the body, and then a separate 24 hour cortisol test. Those results and my next appt will be on Tuesday. I can't wait to see her...
Meanwhile, I have been investigating every possibility. When I found this forum last weekend I immediately raced out and bought sea salt, and have been following your salt water and diet suggestions. Amazingly, the heart palpitations and breathlessness that I have every afternoon disappeared the next day! The nausea I have upon waking every morning disappears within moments of drinking the water. I feel more alert at work, don't have the mid afternoon crash that I always have. I am also loading up on the all the B's, vitamin C, Drenamin, and a multi. So far so good, and I am anxious to see what the doctor has to say, and what she might add.
If I have learned, and could tell anyone 1 thing, it would be to speak up for yourself and be your own advocate. If a doctor won't do a test you want, fire them, and let them know. (I have been known to write doctors letters telling them why I left. If I am paying, I am the boss!) Research your symptoms, and go armed with info.
Thanks for all info you have given me - it gives me hope and I know that I can get well!


----------



## Gabrielle's Mom

I have subbed to this thread ages ago. I am weaning from prednisone (woohoo, down to 5.5mg, highest ever was 40mg, highest daily long term dose, 20mg, so 5.5mg is a reason to celebrate!!!).

I am seeing a naturopath/md and recently started seeing a chiro who does applied kinesiology (muscle testing). She offered hair analysis and mine showed my thyroid and adrenals were not functioning optimally. I knew abt the adrenals bc she muscle tested for that and put me on Drenamin. It has helped immensely but I know I have a long way to go. I'm going to start Cataplex B and some liver support things too.

I look forward to learning more from this thread! It's been great!


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## gemphx

Here is an excerpt from a book that is written by a local doctor.

easy to read, informative, and gives some solutions and remedies

http://www.theelementsofhealth.com/T...20Cortisol.pdf


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## Theloose

I think I got halfway through the thread... yie!

I found a local clinic that specializes in adrenal fatigue, gluten intolerance, and looks for the 'root cause' www.healthnowmedical.com They have me diagnosed with adrenal exhaustion through bioHealth Diagnostics. I don't have the results in front of me, but my am cortisol was really high, during the day was normal and evening was low. So far, the nutritionist at the clinic has me on B5, B6 and calcium.

I was really, really tired all the time, and adding 5mg of iodine got rid of the molasses I was sludging through. After taking the tests from the clinic, I started calcium and vitamin C supps, and suddenly have ENERGY again. It's great! The B5 and B6 made me REALLY irritable, so I added in a B-complex and now I feel so much better. I just hate taking so many supplements...

I got started on this route, trying to figure out dd's food sensitivities, and they way they explain it, when the adrenals are in overdrive like mine are, it's like your body is looking for something to react to. So in our case, we're developing more and more food sensitivities.

Looking back, I think my adrenals have been on the edge my whole life... And if AF increases your need for nutrients like salt, Mg, B5, B6, etc, then it would make sense that dd (18mo) is low on those nutrients as well - If I don't even have enough B5 and B6 for myself, how is she supposed to get any? If she can be suffering from AF this young, then I could have been as well, and it explains a lot of my quirks growing up.

It's so empowering to have a diagnosis that makes sense, then to be able to do something about it and see the difference. Especially after a year of dead ends and just making myself sicker!


----------



## anne1140

I just found this thread, and was wondering if you guys could give me insight. Here are the things I have been dealing with (not sure if they are all related or not):

*Anxiety from as far back as I can remember (social anxiety)
*Slight fatigue pretty much all the time, sometimes more severe
*Abdominal pains
*Heart palpitations every day
*Panic attacks starting about a year ago
*Health anxiety
*Standing up and getting really dizzy (started pretty recently)
*Vertigo (episodes every now and then, some pretty bad)
*Feeling like my balance is off
*Low waking temperature
*Trying for 8 mos. to get pregnant. No luck so far.

I am of normal weight, but I am not really active whatsoever. I have been a vegetarian for several years now. I read other's posts about low blood pressure, but my doc said I had high blood pressure! She then adjusted it, because she didn't take my palpitations into account, and said it was fine. I was also told a year ago (when going to the ER for panic attacks) that my potassium was slightly low. My thyroid tests have come back normal, but my mom suffers from hyperthyroidism, so I'm not totally convinced.

Could this be something that I am dealing with? I seriously feel like crap a lot of the time what with my anxiety and everything.

Oh yeah, I've been on Zoloft for about a year, as well. It's seemed to help somewhat.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I think I got halfway through the thread... yie!

I found a local clinic that specializes in adrenal fatigue, gluten intolerance, and looks for the 'root cause' www.healthnowmedical.com They have me diagnosed with adrenal exhaustion through bioHealth Diagnostics. I don't have the results in front of me, but my am cortisol was really high, during the day was normal and evening was low. So far, the nutritionist at the clinic has me on B5, B6 and calcium.

I was really, really tired all the time, and adding 5mg of iodine got rid of the molasses I was sludging through. After taking the tests from the clinic, I started calcium and vitamin C supps, and suddenly have ENERGY again. It's great! The B5 and B6 made me REALLY irritable, so I added in a B-complex and now I feel so much better. I just hate taking so many supplements...

I got started on this route, trying to figure out dd's food sensitivities, and they way they explain it, when the adrenals are in overdrive like mine are, it's like your body is looking for something to react to. So in our case, we're developing more and more food sensitivities.

Looking back, I think my adrenals have been on the edge my whole life... And if AF increases your need for nutrients like salt, Mg, B5, B6, etc, then it would make sense that dd (18mo) is low on those nutrients as well - If I don't even have enough B5 and B6 for myself, how is she supposed to get any? If she can be suffering from AF this young, then I could have been as well, and it explains a lot of my quirks growing up.

It's so empowering to have a diagnosis that makes sense, then to be able to do something about it and see the difference. Especially after a year of dead ends and just making myself sicker!

This is very interesting to me since I have recently dxd food allergies & have been nursing my 2 year old Ds. He has had itchy, bump arms for over a year now & we can't figure it out. I have the same thing, but don't get the bumps.

Has the doctor said that most food allergies resolve once the adrenals heal?


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## nurturedbirth

It has been awhile since I posted here, possibly not since my original posts in the early pages of this thread. But I wanted to come back with an update on the improvements I've experienced in the last year. Hopefully this will give someone some hope that it is possible to heal. Here's the general history:

By 2001 I had been on hormonal birth control for 4 years and experienced "only" occasional night sweats as a side effect. In that same year I switched to a low-dose triphasic version of the Pill and as a result started a year of steady decline in health before going off hormones all together in early 2002. My symptoms during that year included anxiety, memory problems, insomnia, unexplained weight loss, nausea, headaches, frequent bouts of crying, and depression. My adrenals were working overtime in response to the low dose of estrogen in the BCP. After I went off my burned out adrenals started under-producing cortisol and while the above symptoms improved slowly over about a year, I was left with tremendous fatigue that went untreated for 5 years. I had thyroid testing more than once and the results were normal. It took me until 2007 to learn enough to start suspecting adrenal fatigue and began persuing treatment with a naturopath. Here are my DiagnosTechs saliva test results from July 2007. (I think it's interesting to note that 7am is before my usual wake up time and by the time I was "depleted" at 11am I'd only been up for 2 hours)

Cortisol
7am 18 normal (range 13-24)
11am <1 depressed (range 5-10)
4pm <1 depressed (range 3-8)
11pm <1 depressed (range 1-4)

DHEA
7 normal (range 3-10)

Zone 5 - non-adapted, low reserves

Initially I considered pursuing treatment with hydrocortisone because I was soooo sick of feeling sick that I really wanted quick results. But I have a grandmother who has been treated with HC for Addison's for several decades and has multiple side-effects of long-term HC use, including severe osteoporosis, so we decided to treat with licorice.

In the past year I have done several "rounds" of treatment with the licorice solid extract from Wise Woman Herbals. In each round I have taken 1/4 tsp. of extract 3x a day with meals. The rounds lasted 4-8 weeks with a few weeks to a few months between rounds based on symptoms, and the last one ended a couple months ago. I started noticing improvement about 2 weeks into the first round and I am extremely pleased with my improvement over the course of the year. My energy levels and sleep are both much improved. Today I can participate once or twice a week in a more intense workout out the gym and feel "a little tired" that afternoon whereas in the past this type of exertion would leave me almost unable to move from the couch for the rest of the day. In the winter of 2006/07 I was sick for a month straight with a respiratory infection and the winter of 2007/08 has been my healthiest in probably 15 years. Not even one "real" cold, just a few days of slight sore throat and congestion, successfully combated with vitamins C, D, and A along with an herbal tincture and a Neti Pot as recommended by the naturopath.

I am curious what my cortisol levels are at the moment but am holding off retesting until I feel 100% healed. Right now I'd say I feel about 80% but having felt so poorly for so long it's hard to know what to compare this to.

I've been working on some other changes in diet and supplements but feel like the majority of my improvement can be attributed to the licorice and I'm so glad I didn't resort to the hydrocortisone.

So sorry that's long, but if anyone wants to pm me for more details or anything, please feel free to do so, and I'll continue popping back in here every so often. Good luck everyone!


----------



## MissyH

That is encouraging. My test results are very similar to yours. I run out of gas at noon and it's like that for the rest of the day.


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## kjbrown92

My naturopath wanted to test my hormones because of my irregular periods. She thought it was going to say that I was low on progesterone. So here are the results:

Cortisol - saliva, 7:30am: 4.9 (7.0-10.0) *LOW*
10pm: 0.2 (2.0-3.0) *LOW*

Epinephrine - urine, 9am: 5.2 (8-12) *LOW*

Norepinephrine - urine, 9am: 40.3 (35-50) NORMAL

Dopamine - urine, 9am: 170.3 (110-175) NORMAL

Seratonin - urine, 9am: 90.3 (150-200) *LOW*

GABA - urine, 9am: 12.1 (1.5-4.0) *HIGH*

Estradiol - saliva, 7:30am: 1.1 (0.2-5.0) NORMAL

Estrone - saliva, 7:30am: 2.4 (1.0-4.5) NORMAL

Estriol, Free - saliva, 7:30am: 4.2 (<10) NORMAL

Progesterone - saliva, 7:30am: 1.991 (0.1-0.5) *HIGH*

Testosterone - saliva, 7:30am: 17.5 (15-35) NORMAL

So my periods went from cycles of 45-55 days (duration: 3 days, light flow) to 28 days, duration: 3 days (heavy flow) then 5-7 days nothing, then 2 days (medium flow), then 3-4 days nothing, then 1 day of light flow.

I also have horrible back pain, so the doctor thought my progesterone was going to be low. So she was very surprised to see that it was really high, and that everything was wacky.

I've read a lot of the thread but my head is still reeling. So last week, the doctor put me on 2 Travacort capsules at night (though she said she wasn't sure what they were supposed to do) and 3 Adrenal Support capsules during the day. Since then, I've been having trouble staying awake in the afternoon. She thought that was odd. I haven't been that tired lately. My regular doctor has me on Lyrica for my back pain, which helped me sleep at night, so I've been okay during the day. And now I'm tired? Does that make sense?

I'm a little underweight (lost 5 lbs. a couple years ago and can't seem to gain it back). My blood pressure and body temperature has always been pretty low (doesn't get above 98). I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is a recent occurrence or maybe I've had it for a while. I also have recurrent UTIs (as in, I'm on antibiotics 360 days a year). Not sure if those are related.

I just can't figure out if this is a new thing or if it's related to the back pain and the UTIs and all that. Any help?


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## tanyalynn

Where in your back is the pain? I've had intermittent lower back pain for years, and my HCP (an acupuncturist, so some of what she does is TCM) said that it was kidney/adrenal related and that it would be gone once my adrenals healed. Seemed really strange, I thought it was just a weak back combined with not exercising enough.

Not sure if this is what's happening to you, but once I started treating my adrenals, I got worse for a while before getting better, and I had a real low energy period from about 3-5pm.


----------



## kjbrown92

My back pain is upper/mid back. Right between my shoulder blades. I don't really get low back pain. I have been getting wimpier and wimpier over the years. I got to the point last year, where I couldn't even walk 2 miles without my back spasming uncontrollably when I got home, so I quit that. I went strawberry picking for 25 minutes yesterday. I bent down with my knees each time, so I wouldn't aggavate my back, and my legs have been horrible ever since. My knees keep feeling like they're going to give out on me. My calves and butt hurts, but I figure that's just muscle use. But my knees? I'm falling apart.

I tried looking up all my hormone levels, but not much made sense. One thing said it would give me weight gain and the next would say weight loss. One would say high blood pressure but I have low blood pressure. So it didn't do me much good. I will say that my back pain has been much worse since starting the Travacort and the Adrenal Support. Not sure if it's related or just coincidental.


----------



## Mama~Love

Well, my results are in, and the endo said everything came back normal, except my cortisol. He wants to do a cosyntropin test to see how my adrenals respond to a stimulant. Has anyone done that test before? Could you tell me your experience with it? I don't know if I should get it done or not.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
This is very interesting to me since I have recently dxd food allergies & have been nursing my 2 year old Ds. He has had itchy, bump arms for over a year now & we can't figure it out. I have the same thing, but don't get the bumps.

Has the doctor said that most food allergies resolve once the adrenals heal?

This office figures that your body should take care of itself. If you have things like food allergies or other autoimmune disorders, they're a symptom of your body being out of whack. Dd's food sensitivities where the reason I went in (for myself) in the first place. They figure that for most people, the adrenals are the first thing that's going to be out of whack, then that'll push other stuff, and it's a whole cascade. So AF->hypothyroid->fatigue and AF->yeast overgrowth (or whatever)->food reactions. And (usually) gluten intolerance+modern stressful life+(maybe) parasites/GI infections->AF. The protocol for me is to eliminate as many stressors as possible (life, foods/elimination diet, etc) and support the adrenals as much as possible (vitamins). Once the adrenals are in good shape, then the body can calm down and instead of attacking itself or foods, heal itself.

So yeah, once the adrenals are taken care of and the body is healthy, the food sensitivities should go away. But you can't just ignore them in the meantime.

Dd had the BEST day yesterday... She was always a cheerful go-lucky baby who would explore instead of crying. Lately (in the past few months), she's been really clingy, impatient, easily frustrated, taking forever to fall asleep at night... We started these vitamins a week ago. Yesterday she was super cute, fun, signing spontaneously for things like milk (she'd stopped the signing and would just whine), redirectable, playing by herself, and only half a pee miss all day long (we ec)! And then went to bed without a fuss at all. And I feel like myself again. I'm TOTALLY crediting the vitamins.


----------



## krankedyann

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I'm TOTALLY crediting the vitamins.


What are you taking? I've started on some Bs, but I'm hesitant to try any herbs like licorice until the test results come in. I mailed the samples to the lab on Tuesday and now we wait....

What vitamins are general support no matter where you are on the spectrum? What about other self-help measures? Eating regularly at prescribed times and sleeping with a sleep mask are helping me.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:

My back pain is upper/mid back. Right between my shoulder blades. I don't really get low back pain.
Then I don't have a clue. My only upper back/shoulder pain was simple to figure out and I think you've long ago ruled out all the simple, straightforward problems.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krankedyann* 
What are you taking? I've started on some Bs, but I'm hesitant to try any herbs like licorice until the test results come in. I mailed the samples to the lab on Tuesday and now we wait....

What vitamins are general support no matter where you are on the spectrum? What about other self-help measures? Eating regularly at prescribed times and sleeping with a sleep mask are helping me.

What I've been told to do is to eliminate all common allergens, then reintroduce and look for sensitivities. Eat to maintain stable blood sugar.
As for vitamins, 5mg of iodine gave me a perk-up, but then I started feeling like my body was falling apart. I'm not sure how to describe it... almost like my intestines were slowly dissolving. I added vitamin C (3g/day) and bone calcium (NOW, 2 pills/500mg Ca with each meal) and my body felt almost instantly better. The healthNOW doc put me on Metagenics Cortico-B5B6 (240mg vit C, 100mg B6, 500mg B5, 75mg Mag Oxide, 100mg citrus bioflavanoids) and said to take 2/day. When I did that, I got horribly irritable and cranky. So I added a Solgar B-complex: basically 100mg of each of the B's. Then dd (18mo) had itchy eyes and a runny nose - seasonal allergies for the only time in her life. So I added sublingual B12. And now, the world is amazing and fantastic. Dd keeps looking up at me, smiles, laughs, then keeps playing. I'm working on finding my vit C tolerance, and I want to add magnesium.

So in a nutshell, from what I've gathered, important adrenal nutrients are salt, vit C, B5, B6 and magnesium. I might be missing something. Then, to support those supplements, you need to also think about other B's, calcium, phosphorus, and iodine is usually a good idea.

I like this site: http://www.drkaslow.com/html/adrenal_insufficiency.html


----------



## gemphx

Hi all - I need some input.
Recently got my test results back -

CORTISOL (morning) 14.7 ( 3.7-9.5)
(noon) 2.7 (1.2-3.0)
(evening) 1.3 (.6-1.9)
(night) 0.5 (.4-1.0)
You will see that I am always towards the high side - with morning being really bad.
The doc says this is the acute phase , bordering on whatever the next phase is, and she is surprised that I hang here and don't get worse.
She recommended fiber daily (says that brings cortisol down), and gave me a supplement called ADREN-ALL. I am to take 2 pills at noon.
Well, the first dose cause massive breathlessness and heart palpitations through the whole night - subsiding a little in the a.m. So then she said to take only 1 in the morning, which also caused some of the breathlessness and palpitations.
This product has licorice in it, which I understand is used to RAISE cortisol, not lower, is that correct? Today, 2 days later (with no pill today) I am having a bad anxiety attack, and I haven't had one in weeks.
Your comments /opinions will help me. Thanks.


----------



## Metasequoia

I want to respond to a lot, but am short on time - but this stuck out!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kjbrown92* 
I went strawberry picking for 25 minutes yesterday. I bent down with my knees each time, so I wouldn't aggavate my back, and my legs have been horrible ever since. My knees keep feeling like they're going to give out on me. My calves and butt hurts, but I figure that's just muscle use. But my knees? I'm falling apart.

I went strawberry picking yesterday too! And this morning, I was hobbling around teh kitchen wondering why my knees hurt so much - ding! ding! ding!

Thank you!


----------



## Pookietooth

kjbrown, I don't have much time, but just quickly have you already tried a low oxalate diet for your UTIs? Antibiotics are just a band-aid solution, you have to get at the cause.


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## krankedyann

My test results are back. My morning cortisol is over double the high end of the normal range, but the afternoon evening and night ranges are within normal.

Anyone have this happen? My DHEA, estrogen and testosterone are also high.

ETA: while my thyroid tested within the normal range, the ratios are quite off. I've got to do more reading to understand this one. It's thrown me for a curve ball, since I expected my problem to be solely adrenal and I didn't think the thyroid was involved.


----------



## krankedyann

Anyone? Can anyone help?


----------



## MissyH

There is a yahoo group that I belong to where there is a lady who has figured things out on her own. If you join the group and post your test results there, she is happy to give you some guidance. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/adrenalfatigue/


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kjbrown92* 
My back pain is upper/mid back. Right between my shoulder blades. I don't really get low back pain. I have been getting wimpier and wimpier over the years. I got to the point last year, where I couldn't even walk 2 miles without my back spasming uncontrollably when I got home, so I quit that. I went strawberry picking for 25 minutes yesterday. I bent down with my knees each time, so I wouldn't aggavate my back, and my legs have been horrible ever since. My knees keep feeling like they're going to give out on me. My calves and butt hurts, but I figure that's just muscle use. But my knees? I'm falling apart.

I tried looking up all my hormone levels, but not much made sense. One thing said it would give me weight gain and the next would say weight loss. One would say high blood pressure but I have low blood pressure. So it didn't do me much good. I will say that my back pain has been much worse since starting the Travacort and the Adrenal Support. Not sure if it's related or just coincidental.

Hi,
Pain between shoulders
Low Blood pressure
Weight Loss
Muscle and joint pain (especially in knees)
Low energy in late afternoon

These are ALL signs of adrenal fatigue.
There is some controversy over blood vs saliva but IME saliva is the best way to test cortisol levels (tho it's best to get the test that collects 4 samples over 24 hrs, not just 2) but blood serum are far more effective for sex hormones and DHEA.

If it were me, I would get the following BLOOD labs:

Androgens Panel (early 8am fasting 10-12 hours)
Testosterone
SHGB
FAI
DHEA(S)
Androstenedione
Free Testosterone

Hormonal Panel
FSH
LH
Estradiol (E2) *Free & Total if available
Estrone
Estriol
Progesterone
LH/FSH Ratio

What kind of adrenal support are you on?


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krankedyann* 
My test results are back. My morning cortisol is over double the high end of the normal range, but the afternoon evening and night ranges are within normal.

Anyone have this happen? My DHEA, estrogen and testosterone are also high.

ETA: while my thyroid tested within the normal range, the ratios are quite off. I've got to do more reading to understand this one. It's thrown me for a curve ball, since I expected my problem to be solely adrenal and I didn't think the thyroid was involved.

It's quite common for cortisol levels to spike in the early phases of maladaption.
Could you post your labs w/ ranges?
Also, it's almost a given that once the adrenals go all wonky that the thyroid will be affected - and visa versa since they are interdependent.


----------



## krankedyann

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
It's quite common for cortisol levels to spike in the early phases of maladaption.
Could you post your labs w/ ranges?
Also, it's almost a given that once the adrenals go all wonky that the thyroid will be affected - and visa versa since they are interdependent.

That's just it. I'm not in the early phases, I've been dog sick for 2 years. I had all of the symptoms of addisons two years ago. I have to wonder if I'm somehow on the upswing from it instead of the downswing, and the thyroid is the real issue.

I'm not comfortable posting all of the labs, but I will post these-

DHEAS 22.6 HIGH 3.9-11.4 for my age
Cortisol morning 22.3 HIGH 3.7-9.5
Cortisol noon 2.6 1.2-3.0
Cortisol evening 1.5 0.6-1.9
Cortisol night .7 0.4-1.0
Free T3 3.1 2.5-6.5
Free T4 1.7 0.7-2.5
TSH .8 0.5-3.0
TPO 21 0-150


----------



## Jewel2

Hi all, I have been following this thread for some time, finally getting around to posting! I had saliva tests done by Diagnos-Techs, results:

Cortisol
7-8am 13 (13-24)
11-12pm 3 (5-10)
4-5pm 4 (3-8)
11-12am 2 (1-4)

Cortisol burden 22 (23-42)

DHEA 1 (3-10)

Estradiol 13 (7-20)
Progesterone >1000 (65-500)
Testosterone 15 (8-20)

I have a new doctor, she thought that my progesterone was high due to me over-using topical progesterone oil. She started me on 7Keto-DHEA 25mg a week ago. I haven't noticed any benefit - what should I notice? From my reading on the 'net it seems that DHEA won't help cortisol levels. With that overdose of progesterone I would have thought that my body would have changed it to cortisol......

I am 41, was low-fat vegetarian for 15 years, until I came across Weston A Price's book 5 years ago. Have always had low blood pressure (better now with adding salt to my drinking water). Always had digestive problems - been grain/nut/seed-free for 3 years, found out via blood tests 2 years ago that I am gluten intolerant. Have trouble with fibre (cramps bloating) & animal fat/protein (excessive thirst / water retention). Dairy-free....

I have gained 30lbs since giving up grains etc, I think it is all water retention (from eating fatty protein), any ideas anyone?

Also, the test results from Diagnos-Techs has a cortisol-DHEA correlation graph. I can see that they used the "1" from my Dhea reading, but where do they get the figure for the cortisol reading, which is about 3 on my graph? (3 happens to be my average cortisol excluding the morning one???)

Any thoughts, ideas, recommendations welcome.

Thanks Jewel2


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *krankedyann* 
That's just it. I'm not in the early phases, I've been dog sick for 2 years. I had all of the symptoms of addisons two years ago. I have to wonder if I'm somehow on the upswing from it instead of the downswing, and the thyroid is the real issue.

I'm not comfortable posting all of the labs, but I will post these-

DHEAS 22.6 HIGH 3.9-11.4 for my age
Cortisol morning 22.3 HIGH 3.7-9.5
Cortisol noon 2.6 1.2-3.0
Cortisol evening 1.5 0.6-1.9
Cortisol night .7 0.4-1.0
Free T3 3.1 2.5-6.5
Free T4 1.7 0.7-2.5
TSH .8 0.5-3.0
TPO 21 0-150

Wowza.
Have you been taking anything that would skew your cortisol test results? Did you drink coffee on the day of testing? Supping w/ progesterone or DHEA?
Forgive the questions - don't mean to be annoying. Just wondering...

Are your symptoms predominantly adrenal or thyroid?
http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp


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## subtlycrunchy

I'm loving this gigantic thread filled with everything under the sun related to Adrenal Fatigue. I hope to have something more meaningful to add about my own health soon, but in the meantime, does anyone read the AF advice at womentowomen.com? Here's their article about diet and AF: Eating to support your adrenal glands - small choices can make a difference This really spoke to me and now I'm trying to time my meals better. Anyone else doing this?


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## krankedyann

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
Wowza.
Have you been taking anything that would skew your cortisol test results? Did you drink coffee on the day of testing? Supping w/ progesterone or DHEA?
Forgive the questions - don't mean to be annoying. Just wondering...

Are your symptoms predominantly adrenal or thyroid?
http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp

I didn't do anything that would skew the results that I know of. I woke up and literally started spitting in the vial. I ate normally the day before, which was a calm, slow day. The day I took the test was a calm, slow day. I don't drink coffee, and I'm not taking any supplements like progesterone or DHEA that would have an effect.

My symptoms are predominantly adrenal.

I totally can't figure it out. I'm stumped, and I hope the doctor can help me.


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## FrannieP

Yeah, I'd be feeling stumped as well.
Maybe you could post your labs over at the yahoo adrenal forum and see if anyone else has had experience w/ labs like these?


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## camprunner

I just took a questionaire based on Dr. Wilson's book and sent from a doctor whom I've made an appointment with (but not until August







)

Anyway, apparently my chances are pretty high of having Adrenal fatigue.

Irratibility
Anxiety and Panic Attacks (only during pregnancy with my first child and since the birth of the second)
Forgetfulness and memory loss (severe)
Depression
I sleep a lot and I'm never rested.
My ability to handle stress is almost nonexistant
Lots of headaches

dxed with ADHD and since I've been on stimilants, I'm light headed and have tingling extremeties. Concentration was better at the beginning but now I'm more confused than ever and it's even worse when the stimulants wear off. I avoid taking them now unless dh complains.


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## clewal

I kinda fell off the gluten free wagon. I was doing so well, then I ovulated and I had the overwhelming craving for toast. And gluten free bread wasn't cutting it-I wanted the real stuff, so I caved. Now I've moved onto brownies.

I got my custom adrenal support cream from my doctor, but can't use it yet because I'm supposed to use it on days 7-28 of my cycle. I did try it for a couple of days and now my cycle is completely off. The stuff stinks and is the color of a breastmilk poop. Not an attractive color at all.


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## MommyHawk

I'm excited! My chiropractor, who has dealt with AF herself, is ordering the saliva test kit for me and will read the results in addition to my doctor reading them (that's IF he'll do it, he's still sweeping me under the Flu rug...Flu??? that lasts for over 6 months?!??! yeah, thanks...)


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## MommyHawk

I'm looking for a GOOD DOC in Maryland that understands AF.

Anyone live in or near Maryland?

THanks!


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## Theloose

Anyone here know way too much about sex hormones?

Dd is 18mo and still nursing constantly. No PPAF yet. I also have a really strong letdown reflex (I'm still spraying if I don't watch out). I feel like it's all related and I'm having trouble getting the internet to tell me specific details.

I'm in the early stages of AF (cortisol escape is what the paper said) if it matters, and I think I've been close to here for most, if not all of my life. I know it said levels of specific hormones, too, but now I can't find the paper...


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## IlluminatedAttic

Subbing. I've made it to page 25 of this thread and am still working my way through. I've been eyeing the title of the thread for a few months, somehow I knew it would bring answers, but never clicked on it until the other day because I just wasn't in a place where I was ready to do any more research or make more diet changes. Now we are under 30 days from finally, finally being settled after a cross-country move that began last August. Now that we are about to finally start creating our new life I need to get my health back to enjoy it!

My history; I had Grave's disease as a teenager when it was so uncommon that my case was written about in medical journals. Was treated with some radioactive iodine and then meds, no idea what, then my body crashed and I basically slept for four months. Woke up, re-cooped through the summer and then went to college. No long term therapy or meds and was considered "in remission" for years though after reading this thread I can look back and see signs that have been there all along. Fast forward to seven years ago and my body basically crashed again, only this time with major pain and breathing issues. (Following an extremely stressful life event







: ) and I was bedridden for months. Diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and IBS, very little medical care because I had no insurance, basically self-treated enough to get by and carry on as normal a life as possible with lots of lingering pain and fatigue.

Three years ago I had my son, gained a lot of weight with the pregnancy, lost some, then this year have gained it back and then some. Exercise brings pain and exhaustion but I still try. My diet and the amount that I eat has only improved the past few years so the weight makes no sense. This has been a highly stressful year in general and the increasing fatigue and pain have made it so much more difficult! My thyroid has consistently tested normal.

For a time before the last crash I was more of an adrenaline junky. Worked a high stress job in a crazy 24/7 lifestyle and thrived. Now I do not have panic attacks, but I do feel stressed-out all the time over even little things. I hide it well, but collapse at the end of the day. I have had insomnia since I was a child, sensory issues, ADHD, etc. So basically







everyone from your typical basket case.

The only caffeine I have is chocolate. The only sugar is some raw honey and, well, Bryer's Mint Chocolate Chip.







My ds is wheat sensitive so we are working at going gluten free. We follow WAPF to a large extent though I have had trouble rebuilding resources since the move and fell out of the practice of soaking grains, being doing better lately.

So that's me. I'm getting the saliva test done and going from there. I've learned a lot from this thread already and will no doubt be even better educated by the time I finish reading the second half of the posts. I'll check back in with my test results when I get them.

*Metasequoia* in your posts you refer to Dr. Neville and the Clymer Clinic, but then you also reference your ND. Are they one and the same or two different docs? I, blessings from above, live close enough to go to the clinic so I've already called and am having the tests done through Dr. Neville. But I was wondering if you saw another ND for other issues as I'm also looking to find someone who will care for my ds. Also, you spoke once about a massage therapist. Can you pass that info along to me as well? Feel free to pm me if there are confidentiality issues. Thanks!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Dd is 18mo and still nursing constantly. No PPAF yet. I also have a really strong letdown reflex (I'm still spraying if I don't watch out). I feel like it's all related and I'm having trouble getting the internet to tell me specific details.

This was me to a T. Ds is 27.5 months now - I just got my first PPAF a couple of months ago, when Ds was 25.5 months old. He was & still is nursing *a lot.* I had strong, almost painful let down up until I started nightweaning about a month ago.

I had my sex hormone levels checked 1.5 years ago - I was pretty dang low in everything. Now that I have AF back (aunt flo, not adrenal fatigue, lol), I am curious if my levels have risen.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IlluminatedAttic* 
*Metasequoia* in your posts you refer to Dr. Neville and the Clymer Clinic, but then you also reference your ND. Are they one and the same or two different docs? I, blessings from above, live close enough to go to the clinic so I've already called and am having the tests done through Dr. Neville. But I was wondering if you saw another ND for other issues as I'm also looking to find someone who will care for my ds. Also, you spoke once about a massage therapist. Can you pass that info along to me as well? Feel free to pm me if there are confidentiality issues. Thanks!

Dr. Neville is an ND, they're one in the same. Tell him I say "hello!" (I'm Erin, btw.)
I don't remember where I mentioned a massage therapist....refresh my memory.








PM me where you live & I'll help you find a good doc for your Ds.


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## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeingMe* 
Don't do it. It's bad to drink coffee if you have adrenal and/or thyroid problems. Having no energy in the morning and some and night is your adrenals being off.

Whoa. Really?
I have no energy all day, with it being worst in the afternoon (other than immediately upon waking) then I have a really hard time getting to sleep at night.
Gah.

ETA: I wanted to know- I've been checking out bits and pieces of this thread for a while but...
My ND has me on Adrenal Support already but without testing. If I wanted to take the saliva test, how long would I have to go off the Adrenal Support for in order for it to be accurate?


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## violet

Holy tamole -- I think I've found the promised land. I've been stumbling around trying to figure out what is wrong with me and I want to thank you ladies for this thread and for sharing your own struggles and triumphs.

I'm pretty certain I have hypoglycemia and I've been trying to be so careful with my diet but that is proving to not be enough. Reading about adrenal fatigue fills in the blanks if you kwim. I don't know which came first for me but I think I have both.

My question: chocolate. I know I should not be eating it - for several reasons. My question is why does it put me into such a short tempered foul mood -- for at least 24 hours after? I've eliminated it from my diet completely (pm chocolate was my self-medication before I figured out hypoglycemia). But I've slipped up a couple times and the effect is obvious to myself and my family. I am without patience and it is not me, it is something affecting me. It's sort of like the worst PMS mood where you can't stand yourself but you watch yourself snap at those you love and think, boy I need to get it together....
Is chocolate acting like caffine and producing an adrenal response? Maybe if I understood the whole adrenal system better I could keep myself on track better.


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## tanyalynn

You could be allergic to chocolate--allergens really stress the adrenal system. Chocolate's a not-uncommon allergen; less than stuff like dairy, soy, eggs, etc, but not at all bizarre. My son gets rashes, there are stories of other people in my family with odd reactions, and I think it's likely that I am low-level allergic (but I don't have the will power right now to avoid it







: ).


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## krankedyann

I saw my new doctor yesterday. Due to my results, he questioned if my sample was somehow contaminated or there was another problem, so we're repeating the testing, and doing a bunch more, including neurotransmitters.

We did confirm that I have hashimotos.


----------



## FrannieP

Quote:


Originally Posted by *violet* 
My question: chocolate. I know I should not be eating it - for several reasons. My question is why does it put me into such a short tempered foul mood -- for at least 24 hours after? I've eliminated it from my diet completely (pm chocolate was my self-medication before I figured out hypoglycemia). But I've slipped up a couple times and the effect is obvious to myself and my family. I am without patience and it is not me, it is something affecting me. It's sort of like the worst PMS mood where you can't stand yourself but you watch yourself snap at those you love and think, boy I need to get it together....
Is chocolate acting like caffine and producing an adrenal response? Maybe if I understood the whole adrenal system better I could keep myself on track better.

Caffeine - which chocolate has lots of - is a big stressor for the adrenals.
There certain home tests you can do for Accessing Your Adrenal Function.

Here's a good link to understanding the basics of adrenal function:
http://www.tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html


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## lil_miss_understood

Would an allopathic practitioner test for hypoglycemia if they suspected adrenal fatigue?


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## lil_miss_understood

I had a couple glasses of salted water last night (first time I've ever drank salted water- my mom used to get mad at me for doing that when I was a kid and she wanted me to rinse my mouth). I had eaten a banana not long before. When I woke up this morning, my eyes weren't as dry and gritty feeling. Coincidence?
I spent most of last night reading the link which Frannie posted and so much of pretty much my whole life makes sense now. Such as why I've craved salt my whole life (to the point of eating it in handfuls as a kid and I've restrained myself from doing that as an adult).
Thanks for the really helpful link, Frannie! I wasn't sure this thread was for me before reading that.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Would an allopathic practitioner test for hypoglycemia if they suspected adrenal fatigue?

Hypoglycemia is the first symptom *of* adrenal fatigue. Once your adrenals heal, your hypoglycemia symptoms should disappear.

As for the adrenal support before testing, it is recommended to stop for about 5 days prior to testing.


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## lil_miss_understood

nak
Thanks. Metasequoia.


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## Metasequoia

nak. You're welcome.


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## Theloose

On the return of PPAF...

I found an article that basically says the length of your lactational amenorrhea is pre-determined in pregnancy by the prolactin/free estradiol ratio at 38 weeks. http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...ull/16/12/2540

If I have low estrogen in general, due to overproduction of cortisol, then it seems like that would increase that ratio, providing a longer period of LA.

Now for the overactive letdown piece of the puzzle...


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## chlobo

Jumping in here. I had a saliva test done by Neuroscience. Here are my results:

DHEA-Saliva (7:30am) - 172.7
Cortisol (7:30am) - 4.4 (ref range 7-10)
(11:30am) - 1.1 (ref range 3-6)
(5:30pm) - .8 (ref range 2-4)
(10:30pm) - .8 (ref range <1.5)

Epinephrine (urine) - 5.9 (rr 8-12)
Norepinephrine (urine) - 38.2 (rr 35-50)
Dopamine (urine) - 180.5 (rr 110-175)
Serotonin (urine) - 116.5 (rr 150-200)
Gaba (urine) 1.6 - (rr 1.5-4)
Glutamate (urine) - 43.2 (rr 10-35)
PEA (urine) - 280.6 (rr 175-450)
Histamine (urine) - 24.8 (rr 10-20)
Creatinine (urine) - 160

So I'm guessing this looks pretty bad. Is this something that needs drastic intervention? Like supplemental cortisol? Can anything be done that's safe for breastfeeding?

ETA: Does anyone have a good doctor in Mass/S. NH that treats adrenals?


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## Theloose

I may have another answer...

I have a very quick and strong letdown, that is NOT accompanied by oversupply. It may be caused by low estrogen.

Letdown is triggered by oxytocin, and inhibited by relaxin.
www.biolreprod.org/cgi/reprint/58/4/977.pdf

Relaxin is produced in the ovaries and the breast (and in other places when you're pregnant). It appears to be regulated by estrogen:
http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/con...act/119/3/1222

Other places that relaxin plays a role that make me think I'm low:
uterine contractions (oxytocin stimulates contractions. relaxin prevents them. I had TONS of braxton-hicks)
preterm labor (higher relaxin is commonly associated with preterm delivery. dd was 2 weeks late)
IVF success (relaxin seems to be important for implantation in IVF. It took us 7+ months of ttc to get pg - but no infertility treatments, thank goodness)

And just to clinch it, when I was feeling much better, adrenal-wise, I swear my spraying slowed down, and maybe even stopped on one side. The past month has been stressful, and the spraying is back, full force.


----------



## Metasequoia

Good stuff!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
On the return of PPAF...

I found an article that basically says the length of your lactational amenorrhea is pre-determined in pregnancy by the prolactin/free estradiol ratio at 38 weeks. http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...ull/16/12/2540

If I have low estrogen in general, due to overproduction of cortisol, then it seems like that would increase that ratio, providing a longer period of LA.

Now for the overactive letdown piece of the puzzle...

That makes sense - my PPAFs have continually gotten pushed back with each child. Ds was 26 months when AF returned.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I may have another answer...

I have a very quick and strong letdown, that is NOT accompanied by oversupply. It may be caused by low estrogen.

Letdown is triggered by oxytocin, and inhibited by relaxin.
www.biolreprod.org/cgi/reprint/58/4/977.pdf

Relaxin is produced in the ovaries and the breast (and in other places when you're pregnant). It appears to be regulated by estrogen:
http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/con...act/119/3/1222

Other places that relaxin plays a role that make me think I'm low:
uterine contractions (oxytocin stimulates contractions. relaxin prevents them. I had TONS of braxton-hicks)
preterm labor (higher relaxin is commonly associated with preterm delivery. dd was 2 weeks late)
IVF success (relaxin seems to be important for implantation in IVF. It took us 7+ months of ttc to get pg - but no infertility treatments, thank goodness)

And just to clinch it, when I was feeling much better, adrenal-wise, I swear my spraying slowed down, and maybe even stopped on one side. The past month has been stressful, and the spraying is back, full force.

I also have a VERY strong & quick let down. I have a pretty heavy supply, at least for the first few months PP though.

I also had loads of *super* strong BHs, even during my first pregnancy, beginning very early on. They were quite productive too - I was always 4-5cm dilated for the last 4-6 weeks of all of my pregnancies.
All of my babies arrived on their due dates though.

I'm not clear on the IVF part. I conceived easily with each baby, even on the pill - don't know how that fits in.

Interesting stuff....


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## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Good stuff!
I'm not clear on the IVF part. I conceived easily with each baby, even on the pill - don't know how that fits in.

Interesting stuff....

Something my ob/gyn said a few years ago just started making sense to me now. He said something like "some women have naturally low estrogen which isn't so low as to prevent conception but is low enough that a mini-pill isn't enough estrogen to prevent conception either" (he was explaining why the mini-pill usually made me more fertile and why I needed to go on an "old style" bc pill).
Just thought I'd share... not sure if that'll make sense to anyone besides me.


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## nichole

You guys will understand this I'm sure. My insurance company sent me a letter saying they COVERED my adrenal fatigue saliva test I had.
















I just ordered the book What your Doctor May not Tell You about Autoimmune Disorders.


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## ErinBird

I can't remember if I have posted here before, but some background:

I was diagnosed 5mo PP (January 2007) with hypothyroidism and I have antibodies present. I began taking Armour, working up my dosage to 3 grains/day. As soon as I began taking any meds, a ton of symptoms that I didn't even know to be symptoms faded away- achy joints, fogginess, swollen neck, low milk supply. I had been experiencing some of those things for a decade (I am in my mid 20s, so since my early teens.)!

I had my gall bladder removed at 8mo PP (May 2007). The incisions were sore far, far longer then I expected. I also began to fly into horrible rages with little provocation. Things that had been minor issues in my past- back aches, migraines, insomnia, dizziness- became more prominent, but not in a hugely concerning fashion- this all built up gradually with time. I continued to be very thirsty, downing 1L of water in a few minutes and still not having quenched my thirst. As the winter wore on, I began to be bone crushingly exhausted in the afternoons- I would literally lie on the floor and let my young toddler crawl around and nurse at will while I just wished my DH to come home.

It was bad- I couldn't *do* anything except sit or lie down most days. My naturopath was on maternity leave and my thyroid levels tested fine in August of 2007, so I was instructed to make an appointment in 5 months for a recheck and to contact her back up doctor if I needed anything in the meantime.

Finally in February, I went through a week straight full of rage and exhaustion. My husband told me I had to make an appointment to see someone, so I listened. At this point, I had gained 45 lbs in just under a year too....

MY internet research (stopthethyroidmadness.com, mostly) caused me to suspect adrenal fatigue. I took a long list of symptoms and complaints to the new naturopath and she immediately suspected the same thing. Saliva tests confirmed this.

My treatment thus far has been an adrenal support tincture in the morning with my thyroid medication. I tested with very low levels of VitD, so I supplement 2000IU a day, usually around lunchtime with my regular prenatal vitamin. We did a blood test for food allergies and mine came back really high for eggs, moderately high for gluten, and elevated for dairy. I avoid those foods (though I have been able to eat some dairy occasionally after 4+ months on this diet). I also have issues regulating my blood sugar/noticing when I am hungry, so I have made a habit of eating some form of protein every two hours all day. Weight has been falling off me as well- down 25lbs in about 3 months with no purposeful weight loss effort.

I feel a lot better then I used to, with a few exceptions. My menstrual cycle returned at 17mo PP (February 2008). It was anovulatory until two cycles ago (I am an experienced FAM user.). Now that I am ovulating again, my fatigue returns in full force several days before I ovulate and then totally knocks me on my behind in the days leading up to my period.

Last month, I was having trouble regulating my blood pressure (so walking up the stairs was impossible), body temperature, and was quite literally lying on the floor just trying to stop my heart from pounding out of my chest. I went to my naturopath and we did some cranial sacral therapy and she gave me a B vitamin injection to see if it helped me get through a few days. The B vitamins helped a bit, but it was still a rough few days. My thyroid also went bananas during that time (antibodies?) and we ultimately upped my Armour dose a bit and I felt much better.

Now I'm gearing up for ovulation again. And cursing my body. Again. Today I couldn't find my car keys when we needed to be someplace and flew into an uncontrollable rage over it. Now, hours later, I am still reeling from that. I hope tomorrow is better, but doubt it will be:/ I'm thankful my toddler was in a different room because it is very upsetting for her to see me so angry and not understand









So... does this happen to you? What has helped? I'm seriously beginning to wonder if I should look into hormonal birth control to suppress my hormones for a few months (My religion forbids the use of HBC for non medical reasons, so this is not something I take lightly.). My hope would be that my adrenals could have more time to heal before dealing my hormone fluctuations? I'd love any commisseration or feedback.


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## Metasequoia

I don't have time for a well thought out response, but I wouldn't take BCP - I've read too many horror stories beginning with "it all began when I started taking the pill...."


----------



## ErinBird

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I don't have time for a well thought out response, but I wouldn't take BCP - I've read too many horror stories beginning with "it all began when I started taking the pill...."

Thanks for the response and for reading. I worry about this too, since so much of my treatment has been focused on getting back to basics.


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## mombh

I usually lurk but haven't in a while and now I have some questions????
o.k., anybody do the saliva test while pregnant???
anybody take the glandular while pregnant with good results???
high resting pulse, sometimes skipped beats and low bp....symptoms of af or something else??? last test for thyroid I did, everything was in normal range...
something is just not right and is eluding me.....
I am gluten free, eat pretty well, not vegetarian, try to follow tf although not to the T, more like a "real foods" lifestyle, no caffeine etc;
any info you mamas have will be appreciated.


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## clewal

Saw my dr a couple of weeks ago. She had me test my iodine levels, which were low. So now I'm on supplemental iodine. I've used the adrenal cream they wanted me to use for over a month now. The only change I've noticed is that I'm sleeping better, and that's about it. I'm thinking of changing doctors because I suspect more than adrenal fatigue and I feel I'm getting a very expensive run around with this doctor, even though everyone else seems to love him to death. Every time I go in, it's more tests (usually at about $250 a pop) and more supplements. I'm supplemented out. I told my husband the other day that I'm taking so many supplements, that by the time I've taken them all, I'm not hungry anymore. With everything this doctor gives me, I just seem to get worse. I just want to feel normal again, that's all.


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## Metasequoia

clewal, it took me a loooong time to notice any changes in how I felt once I started treatment, like 8 or 9 months & since then, I still haven't noticed anything else, though my test results show a sloooow improvement.

But, my adrenal doc (ND) also tries like hell to keep costs low. Aside from the ASI which cost me $99, I have only bought glandulars & pregnenolone which aren't super pricey.

Fwiw, I thinking sleeping better is HUGE in the world of adrenal fatigue, so that's a start.


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## beebalmmama

I've only been able to look through the first few pages of this thread, but I have some questions. A little about me. Currently I am looking at the possible reasons for sex hormones to be imbalanced. I had at one time had my testosterone tested and it was WAY low. I've been hoping that being off the pill for several years would eventually re-balance me out. But it hasn't and I have virtually no sex drive and haven't for over 5 years. I have had other experiences that now make me wonder if adrenals disfunction could be a factor (as well as talking to a good friend of mine who is a nurse suggested I have a blood test to check them). About 4 years ago I broke out in severe chronic hives (for six months) and the ND treated me for my gastrointestinal problems and it cleared them up within a month of starting supplements. I am now much more cautious about what I eat and have learned which foods trigger problems for me, but occasionally will still have major flare ups out of nowhere and still have minor bloating/gas on a regular basis. I also have low blood pressure, get faint if I get up too quickly from laying to standing, and somewhat low energy. I wake up energized but seem to crash in the early afternoon and feel completely immobilized by heat.
I guess right now I feel like I can manage all aspects with diet, exercise, stress management (which for me is my yoga practice). But I have to throw my hands up when it comes to the hormones. It's a huge issue in my marriage and in turn affects our home life. My dh has always been so understanding, but it is starting to wear down.
Any help is so much appreciated.


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## Theloose

beebalmmama, it sounds like adrenal problems could definitely be a factor for you! When you get your blood tests back, bear in mind that saliva tests tend to be more accurate, so even if the labs say 'normal' that it's not necessarily so.

Here are the AF links that I like, be sure to check out the hormone pathways!
http://www.drlam.com/a3r_brief_in_do...al_fatigue.cfm
http://www.drkaslow.com/html/adrenal_insufficiency.html
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/
http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp
http://www.tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beebalmmama* 
I've only been able to look through the first few pages of this thread, but I have some questions. A little about me. Currently I am looking at the possible reasons for sex hormones to be imbalanced. I had at one time had my testosterone tested and it was WAY low. I've been hoping that being off the pill for several years would eventually re-balance me out. But it hasn't and I have virtually no sex drive and haven't for over 5 years. I have had other experiences that now make me wonder if adrenals disfunction could be a factor (as well as talking to a good friend of mine who is a nurse suggested I have a blood test to check them). About 4 years ago I broke out in severe chronic hives (for six months) and the ND treated me for my gastrointestinal problems and it cleared them up within a month of starting supplements. I am now much more cautious about what I eat and have learned which foods trigger problems for me, but occasionally will still have major flare ups out of nowhere and still have minor bloating/gas on a regular basis. I also have low blood pressure, get faint if I get up too quickly from laying to standing, and somewhat low energy. I wake up energized but seem to crash in the early afternoon and feel completely immobilized by heat.
I guess right now I feel like I can manage all aspects with diet, exercise, stress management (which for me is my yoga practice). But I have to throw my hands up when it comes to the hormones. It's a huge issue in my marriage and in turn affects our home life. My dh has always been so understanding, but it is starting to wear down.
Any help is so much appreciated.

I agree that AF could be responsible. My libido has made a fierce comeback recently - but I'm not sure if it was adrenal treatment or the return of my cycles.
I got my first PP AF back in May & since then, every time I ovulate, look out!







I've been treating my adrenals for 1.5 years now & I have noticed that my horrible anxiety has completely disappeared, so I know the treatment is working.

Have you been bfing long? I've been bfing for 8.5 years on & off, but continually for the last 5.5 years, tandem nursing for a while - I'm sure it took a toll on my hormones.

I'm *very* curious to hear what your ND gave you to heal your intestinal problems. Itchiness on my upper arms is my worst complaint right now, has been for well over a year now. I've read that skin problems reflect the health of your gut, but I haven't figured out what my food triggers are yet.

I agree with WhoMe, do the saliva test if you can. Diagnos-Techs has a great ASI for $99, worth every cent.


----------



## IlluminatedAttic

Just a quick check-in. I posted a few weeks back but immediately got caught up in our house moving. I just got my test results though so I thought I would jump on and post.

Morning ~ 10
Noon ~ 1
Evening ~ 1
Night ~ 1

DHEA ~ 2
Insulin levels also depressed.
Total salivary SIgA ~ 8
Gliadin Ab, SIgA ~ 11

I have an appt. with the ND next week which I hope I don't have to postpone because of this house closing. I'm glad to finally be getting some answers, but frustrated to have to deal with yet more health issues. I just want to live life and feel good. Why does that have to be so hard?!

Anyway, pity party over. I will only be able to read internet and not respond this weekend, but if anyone has any advice after seeing these numbers please send it along. And Metasequoia, I'll get back in touch with you next week!


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## nurturebaby

Hi everyone - I'm new around here, but after reading through some of these posts, I'm wondering if I'm also suffering from some adrenal fatigue and possibly some other stuff as well. Would really love to hear your opinions.

Basically, all of the symptoms that I've heard mentioned - fatigue (always feels like I'm not getting enough sleep), low blood pressure (which I've always had - mostly upon standing - I've fainted several times in my youth - I still get so dizzy sometimes upon standing that I black out a bit, but never faint anymore), I'm thinking I may have a touch of mild depression now, I'm very irritable and so incredibly stressed it's unbearable (our house is for sale - that combined with caring for the kids is a lot for me). I also read someone's post that mentioned something about eye issues? Focusing or something? Not sure if this is related, but I've had an increase in 'floaters' in the past couple of years and I've found that I for some reason have difficulty focusing my eyes through binocular type stuff - like the drivers eye test - or just looking through binoculars. Not sure if that's related, but thought I'd throw it in since someone mentioned eyes!

Oh yeah - the other thing. After ds was born (he's 3 now), I had a physical that showed I had elevated liver enzymes. So I followed up with my doc, who did more tests and found I was hyperthyroid. He said it was related to the pregnancy and follow up tests were all normal for both liver enzymes and thyroid. But I haven't been tested for a couple of years now.

Anyway, just curious as to any opinions or suggestions. It's one of those things that I feel like there are so many little things going on - but would feel sort of silly going to the doctor because it's not one big definate symptom I've got. I just feel like something is off. It would be weird listing ALL of the little symptoms I'm having! How much is just being a mom, kwim?

Any thoughts?


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## guest^

To the OP.....

Would you mind starting a new thread? This is sooooo long to read through.

Please?







:







:







:

mp


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## Poddi

I haven't got the time to read through this huge thread, but I checked the symptoms and I seem to have most of them. It must have started a couple years ago, but didn't get too bad until a few months ago. Now I'm having a hard time coping with everyday life because I'm tired all the time. I'm even afraid of parties, visitors, vacations..., all the fun things in life because I don't have the energy to deal with them.







I'm definitely going to talk to my doctor about this. I just hope she takes me seriously.


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## Bestbirths

Don't know if there is a new thread yet.

My dd and I are being treated herbally for adrenal fatigue/low cortisol. One month ago my dd got a severe soar throat. Strep test neg. So we are herbally and naturopathically treating her for mono. Her friends on Xbox live actually got on the mike and asked me if my dd had the Hepatitis vaxes. New Yorkers....my run in's with them is that a lot of them are not very alt. med friendly. No we have not had or will have the Hep Vaxes.

I put cases of water in dd's room and lots of vitamins, including milk thistle to support her liver just incase....but argh. My daughters online friends have her half convinced she has a horrible unknown disease...


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## Theloose

Would anyone be interested in an adrenal endocrinology thread? I've been trying so hard to figure out the hormones, and I've made a lot of progress, but would like so much to find a group of people to talk it out with...


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## MommyHawk

I just got my ASI test and wanted to know what is the best way to take this? I don't see any instruction to NOT take salt tablets during the day or day before testing, or vit's, but I could of sworn someone had mentioned that their instructions mentioned to not take any supplements that they are taking to feel better.

Also, should I wait for a day that I feel really bad? Or just take it any day? There are 2-3 days a week where I feel very horrible, and sometimes 1-2 days where I feel fantastic, with the rest somewhere in between...

thanks in advance for any advice


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## Pookietooth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Would anyone be interested in an adrenal endocrinology thread? I've been trying so hard to figure out the hormones, and I've made a lot of progress, but would like so much to find a group of people to talk it out with...

Yes! Sounds good. My hormones are wacked!


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## Theloose

Adrenal Hormones


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## Daizynee

subbing in...


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## LavenderMae

I'm subbing. I think this is an issue for me but I have no insurance and no money. I just don't see how I could afford to see a doctor or pay for labs ect.
Also I'm pretty sure I don't have low blood pressure but when over weight (like I am now) it tends to be on the high side. I'll check it the next time I'm somewhere with a machine (are they accurate?). But I have so many of the other symptoms. I was just nodding my head symptom after symptom. I kind of feel helpless though because we can hardly afford food , yet another reason why being poor blows.


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## Collinsky

Subbing!


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## LavenderMae

I justed wanted to say I just finished reading this whole enormous thread. I've been reading it on and off all day. I'm in information overload.









I wanted to know if there is anything I can do on my own (not knowing exactly what my levels ect) to get healthier. I am so tired (literally) of feeling like poo.


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## LavenderMae

Does (or has) anyone taken AdrenoBoost http://www.nativeremedies.com/produc...505&kbid=5207? And does it help and is it safe to take while breastfeeding?


----------



## Pookietooth

I couldn't figure out what was in it. I would say just take plenty of B vitamins and salt, because a lot of the adrenal supporting herbs are pretty intense.


----------



## Collinsky

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
Does (or has) anyone taken AdrenoBoost http://www.nativeremedies.com/produc...505&kbid=5207? And does it help and is it safe to take while breastfeeding?

It says safety during pregnancy and bfing "has not been established." The ingredients are borage, Siberian ginseng, and huang qi...Borage is a galactagogue but can be toxic (Susun Weed suggests taking it only as a weak tea, and only after feeding the baby) - the Siberian ginseng and astralagus (huang qi) seem to be safe while bfing.

I think I would personally be afraid to take it, due to the borage. I definitely wouldn't want to take it without someone experienced and knowledgeable overseeing and advising me on using it properly.


----------



## LavenderMae

Thanks both of you. I did see were safety hadn't been established but so many things say that but are actually safe so I wasn't sure. I really wish I could see someone but truly we do not have the money.

What B vit do you all take? Will CLO help at all, what is the best brand you can get at a hfs? Should I still be upping my salt intact eventhough my bloodpressure isn't low and maybe more on the high side. It's hard to say though because I have anxiety about getting BP taken (or anything medical) so it's always elevated when I do. But I'm pretty sure it isn't low. But I do have the lightheaded/dizzy thing happen when I stand up a lot of the time, when I was thin (before last preg) I blacked out completely a few times but that hasn't happened sicne I put on weight.
I tried to google stuff about this and what kind of foods were best ect and I really wasn't finding anything helpful. So I was wondering if anyone else could point me in the right direction.

I have psoriasis and after I had my last baby (he's almost 2) it's been the worst ever and hasn't gone away in the summer like it has in the past (although it did improve), it's still mild but I think it's all connected to the adrenal stuff. I'm also worried about my kids because I've ahad a lot of the symptoms since before I had kids and so had them while pregnant with asll of my kids. What can I do to support their adrenal glands as far as diet and supplements?

I really appreciate everyone who has taken the time to post on this thread and answer my questions. This is all so new to me and very overwhelming.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nurturebaby* 
I also read someone's post that mentioned something about eye issues? Focusing or something? Not sure if this is related, but I've had an increase in 'floaters' in the past couple of years and I've found that I for some reason have difficulty focusing my eyes through binocular type stuff - like the drivers eye test - or just looking through binoculars. Not sure if that's related, but thought I'd throw it in since someone mentioned eyes!

Me!! Increase in floaters was one of my first symptoms after "The Big Crash" after I had Ds. I know it's a Lyme symptom, but I've also read a few things online linking it to low blood pressure, which would make total sense.
I asked my ND if it was something he saw a lot in his adrenal patients & he said "yes." Then I said, "in your adrenal patients who don't have Lyme?" and he laughed & assured me that yes, even in teh ones without Lyme.









Glad to have found another floaty person!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *guest^* 
To the OP.....

Would you mind starting a new thread? This is sooooo long to read through.

Please?







:







:







:

mp









And lose all of this?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 

I wanted to know if there is anything I can do on my own (not knowing exactly what my levels ect) to get healthier. I am so tired (literally) of feeling like poo.

I'd say, get more sleep, reduce your stress, improve your diet which includes pastured meats, organs if you can do it, remove foods that cause a problem like coffee or anything you're reacting to, get a high quality raw glandular like Mil Adregen & eat lots of high quality sea salt, like Celtic.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
I wanted to know if there is anything I can do on my own (not knowing exactly what my levels ect) to get healthier. I am so tired (literally) of feeling like poo.

To tag onto the sleep suggestion, has everyone here read the hibernation diet thread? The gist is that eating honey before bed helps you sleep and restores your adrenals. That would be my number one place to start - it's easy, totally safe, and yummy!

more links: www.hibernationdiet.com and poster #14


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## LavenderMae

Thanks!

Metasequoia, I've been veg for 14 yrs and I am seriously considering adding seafood to my diet (probably starting this weekend, already started CLO) but other meat and organs are way out of my comfort zone. I'd rather try anything else first. I am trying to get more sleep but with a toddler that who sometimes nurses at night like a newborn (it would be way worse if I tried to nightwean plus I am personally against it) and having to get up at 6:45 because my nephew gets here (I watch him no less than 50hrs per week, he's 2) at 7 is not allowing for much sleep. I am so not a morning person and that alone is one big stressor in my life plus the actual reason I have to get up is a huge stress but monetarily I can't afford to stop. I do try to nap when the toddlers take their nap.
Is the suppliment you linked to safe to take while breasfeeing and is it otc (where can you get it) and where do they get the raw glandular concentrates from?
Thank you so much for your time and advice I really appreciate it.









whoMe, that's sounds interesting I will read that thread. I have raw honey right now. But I really don't have a hard time getting to sleep. I am usually so exhausted it takes me about 5 mins to fall asleep. I do wake easily though.

One more question that I asked in another post. I do not have low blood pressure (I still haven't checked but I'm almost positive I don't) so should I still be eating sea salt freely? The last time I was at this weight (I am pretty overweight) I had border line hypertentsion. But like I said before My BP is almost always elevated when I have it taken because medical stuff causes anxiety in me. Since I had highish BP before I am really anxious when I take it now. That seems so stupid to me.







It makes me sound like a freak or something.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
whoMe, that's sounds interesting I will read that thread. I have raw honey right now. But I really don't have a hard time getting to sleep. I am usually so exhausted it takes me about 5 mins to fall asleep. I do wake easily though.

My biggest complaint was insomnia - I'd fall asleep no problem, but then after dd nursed, I'd be wide awake for hours. The honey seems to help me stay groggy through the nursing and just go right back to sleep.

Quote:

One more question that I asked in another post. I do not have low blood pressure (I still haven't checked but I'm almost positive I don't) so should I still be eating sea salt freely? The last time I was at this weight (I am pretty overweight) I had border line hypertentsion. But like I said before My BP is almost always elevated when I have it taken because medical stuff causes anxiety in me. Since I had highish BP before I am really anxious when I take it now. That seems so stupid to me.







It makes me sound like a freak or something.








Since salt is one of those things that can easily taste like too much, I'm of the opinion that your body will tell you when it has enough. So salt everything to taste. However, I've never dealt with hypertension or researched it at all. I suppose if you had low aldosterone (the reason to use salt liberally) and that happened to be balancing out something else that was raising your blood pressure, then adding salt might mess with that balance and cause more problems - even if your body actually does need the salt.


----------



## Blooming

subbing, I currently am diagnosed with Fibro.

I have the saliva kit sitting here, I just have to do it.

I have low blood pressure but a high heart rate? Is that common in Adrenal Fatigue?

Sorry if this has alredy been talked about, I have a crazy headache and cannot read the whole thread right now.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blooming* 
subbing, I currently am diagnosed with Fibro.

I have low blood pressure but a high heart rate? Is that common in Adrenal Fatigue?

slightly OT: Because you mention fibro and I'm curious, I read somewhere online (I'll search for the link if you want) about a doc who's theory is that fibro is caused by low relaxin. Does that ring true for you? Relaxin is what opposes oxytocin in the milk ejection reflex (letdown), and when they injected rats with relaxin, the result was a much more delayed, weaker letdown. I've been trying to figure out why my letdown is so quick and I'm *still* spraying at 20mo.

Back on topic, low blood pressure is definitely common, and iirc, a high heart rate to try to keep the blood flowing would make sense. Do you like salt? Low sodium caused by low aldosterone is the cause of low blood pressure in AF.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
I wanted to know if there is anything I can do on my own (not knowing exactly what my levels ect) to get healthier. I am so tired (literally) of feeling like poo.

Oh yeah, and something else you can do on your own and that can only help is to figure out any food sensitivities. Really common ones are gluten and dairy, so just cutting those out can make a world of difference.

My dd has sensitivities, and I think that if I had just cut out the triggers and not gone on such a wild quest for answers, I'd be in much better shape right now. Of course I would know nothing about adrenal fatigue, and not nearly as much about nutrition, and the adrenal nutrients I definitely need, so who knows what my long term prognosis would have been...


----------



## Blooming

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
slightly OT: Because you mention fibro and I'm curious, I read somewhere online (I'll search for the link if you want) about a doc who's theory is that fibro is caused by low relaxin. Does that ring true for you? Relaxin is what opposes oxytocin in the milk ejection reflex (letdown), and when they injected rats with relaxin, the result was a much more delayed, weaker letdown. I've been trying to figure out why my letdown is so quick and I'm *still* spraying at 20mo.

Back on topic, low blood pressure is definitely common, and iirc, a high heart rate to try to keep the blood flowing would make sense. Do you like salt? Low sodium caused by low aldosterone is the cause of low blood pressure in AF.

I have never heard of relaxin but I also had quick let downs, even letting down for over a year between nursing and being pregnant. I started producing milk a month before I gave birth. My babe went right to milk. I'll have to look into that a bit more.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blooming* 
I have never heard of relaxin but I also had quick let downs, even letting down for over a year between nursing and being pregnant. I started producing milk a month before I gave birth. My babe went right to milk. I'll have to look into that a bit more.

wow, cool







though I'm not sure how the milk part fits in...

relaxin is more commonly known for loosening ligaments during pregnancy, and is involved in labor as well.


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## ErinBird

Does anyone else have low cholesterol levels? I have been treating my adrenals with the help of my naturopath for 9 months and she tested my cholesterol levels last week. Mine was at 129 (target 170-200).


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
Metasequoia, I've been veg for 14 yrs and I am seriously considering adding seafood to my diet (probably starting this weekend, already started CLO) but other meat and organs are way out of my comfort zone. I'd rather try anything else first. I am trying to get more sleep but with a toddler that who sometimes nurses at night like a newborn (it would be way worse if I tried to nightwean plus I am personally against it) and having to get up at 6:45 because my nephew gets here (I watch him no less than 50hrs per week, he's 2) at 7 is not allowing for much sleep. I am so not a morning person and that alone is one big stressor in my life plus the actual reason I have to get up is a huge stress but monetarily I can't afford to stop. I do try to nap when the toddlers take their nap.
Is the suppliment you linked to safe to take while breasfeeing and is it otc (where can you get it) and where do they get the raw glandular concentrates from?
Thank you so much for your time and advice I really appreciate it.









LM, I have a very dear friend who was a veggie for 16 years. She added tuna to her diet while pregnant to "benefit" the fetus. Her son is Autistic & in the early years of his life (he breastfed until 4.5 yrs), every doctor she saw told her that if she wanted to heal herself & her son, she needed to eat pastured meat & organs. She couldn't do the organs but had her husband cook meat for her (outside) starting with chicken breast & he'd hide it in something & feed it to her.
We just talked about this the other day again & she said that the difference in how she felt still blows her mind. She said she suddenly had energy again. Both she & her toddler Ds started sleeping at night.

I think it's awesome that you're thinking of adding seafood to your diet. Just be very careful which seafood you choose & where it's from. Adding mercury or other junk to your already stressed body is the last thing you need to do. You can print a pocket guide to safe seafood here.
CLO should help too, are you taking Blue Ice?

The glandulars I take come from New Zealand. My ND is a Weston Price fan & knows to research safe & high quality sources, I trust his supplement choices. I am still nursing Ds (almost 2.5 yrs) & have been taking both the Mil Adregen & pregnenolone since he was almost a year old.

Your situation sounds *a lot* like mine. When I first started going to my ND, he really wanted me to nightwean Ds, but I refused. Like your toddler, he would nurse like a newborn all.night.long. He still nurses a lot during the day (& I still have let down, whoMe..) I finally felt that the time was right this summer, when he was about 27 months old. I got my cycles back at about that time as well & they have been more regular than ever before, absolutely no cramps & my libido is back, baby.









I'm a single mama (my poor libido, lol) & I also babysit. I've babysat every day this week except for Sunday & Wednesday. I wouldn't make it without the extra money & I can be with my children. Ikwym about the exhaustion, yesterday I just wanted to lay down around 3pm, but I had 4 kids & one about to get off the bus. We're homeschoolers too, so no breaks from the older kids.

So, seafood would be a good start, glandulars - great. Maybe after adding the seafood, pastured meat from happy animals might not be such a yucky thought. Do you eat eggs from truly pastured chickens?


----------



## LavenderMae

Thank you, Metasequoia. I am taking Nordic Naturals CLO right now. I am on a tight budget so I have to do what I can afford. The eggs we eat claim to be but the ones from the reg. grocery I do wonder and actually doubt it. The ones we get form the Farmer's Market when they have them I do believe do what they claim. I wish money wasn't a concern but it REALLY is. We already barily scrape by.
Thank you for that website, very helpful since I do want to be careful with the seafood we eat. The glandulars have to be prescibed?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
Thank you, Metasequoia. I am taking Nordic Naturals CLO right now. I am on a tight budget so I have to do what I can afford. The eggs we eat claim to be but the ones from the reg. grocery I do wonder and actually doubt it. The ones we get form the Farmer's Market when they have them I do believe do what they claim. I wish money wasn't a concern but it REALLY is. We already barily scrape by.
Thank you for that website, very helpful since I do want to be careful with the seafood we eat. The glandulars have to be prescibed?

Blue Ice is actually cheaper than NN & only contains natural vitamins. Nordic uses synthetic A & D.

Is there maybe a local small scale farmer or homeowner who sells chicken eggs? They'd at least be pastured & usually cheaper too.

You can order Mil Adgregen online.


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## LavenderMae

The NN that I bought says it doesn't have synthetic/added A&D in it. They did have one that did though. Thank you again!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LavenderMae* 
The NN that I bought says it doesn't have synthetic/added A&D in it. They did have one that did though. Thank you again!

Oh good, I'm glad they're making that clear nowadays.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IlluminatedAttic* 
I have an appt. with the ND next week which I hope I don't have to postpone because of this house closing. I'm glad to finally be getting some answers, but frustrated to have to deal with yet more health issues. I just want to live life and feel good. Why does that have to be so hard?!

Anyway, pity party over. I will only be able to read internet and not respond this weekend, but if anyone has any advice after seeing these numbers please send it along. *And Metasequoia, I'll get back in touch with you next week!*

Wondering how it went! Dr. Neville told me that he had a new patient, someone who had "run into me on the internet" - wondering if this was you.









Oh hey, my BP was *awesome* yesterday! 110-120-120! Woot! Know idea what I did right, but I can say that my diet has been awful - Haagen-Dazs, coffee







, wine, chocolate cake (GF, of course)...
I really need to kick that coffee again, I can't believe I allowed it back into my life.


----------



## rominick

Hello,

I am new to these forums, but have read a lot of them in the past few months. I joined a while back, but forgot that I had joined, ha ha. Anyway, I have lots of health problems and this looks like the place for lots of support!

My name is Jane and I have 3 kids. DS#1 (age 11) has autism and severe dyslexia, DD (age 8) is NT but does have asthma and the youngest DS is 17 mo and still nursing quite a bit (especially at night!). I have done a lot with the autism biomedically and DS#1 is doing pretty well at this point.

So for me, I have had 3 C/S and with each went downhill, especially the last one. I had some problems with the last pregnancy and delivered a few weeks early and that was after some steroid shots and misc meds that I did not want to do. At least DS#2 is unvaccinated and GFCF up to this point. I eventually (about a year ago) developed what I have self dx'ed as Rheumatoid Arthritis. I did have an ANA titer of 1:640, but did not test further. Instead I went gluten free and then SCD and now transitioning to The Body Ecology Diet. It helps but I knew there was more that was wrong. I do know I have leaky gut and severe Candida. I have had electrodermal testing and am addressing a lot of this with supplements. Although not too many since still nursing. So then I went and had the Diagnos-Techs Saliva test done and here are the results:

Test Date 8/22/08
Time Result Ref Range

Morning 9 depressed ref13-24 nM
Noon 2 depressed ref 5-10 nM
Afternoon 2 depressed ref 3-8 nM
Midnight 1 Normal ref 1-4 nM

Cortisol Burden: 14 23-42 ref range
DHEA 2 depressed DHEA 3-10 ref range
Chart shows zone 7

E2 Estradiol 22
P1 Progesterone 104
TTF Free Test 84 Elevated Ref Borderline 5-7 Normal 8-20 pg/ml

I have access to a lot of good quality pharma grade supplements (I run a supplement co-op), so am wondering where to even start. What I don't have is insurance, so I am doing a lot of this on my own. Also concerned about just how much I can do while nursing.

I did read a lot of these posts a few weeks back, but can't remember a lot of it. I guess that is part of the problem now isn't it? I can't remember much these days and am too tired to go back and read again. I do know that some of the things I need to look at taking are pantothenic acid or B5, hydrocortisone, licorice extract, and a few others. I have some of that here, but am unsure of just how to start out. I know not to start it all at once, so thought I would get some input first.

Sorry so long!
Jane








::yawning:







:


----------



## nichole

Until you figure it out, at the very least I would take a high stress b complex...that will cover your b vites and vita c. I don't know much about the licorice and hydrocortisone.


----------



## WuWei

rominick, for the kids (and you), you might want to read about C-Section Syndrome: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=section

And probiotics: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=section

This thread about candida: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=952566

This one about "Healing the Gut": http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=434071

Welcome.

Pat


----------



## Gabrielle's Mom

I am weaning from prednisone, been on it for almost 5 years... a short summary...

7/03 had my first dd, had a RA flare, went on 5mg prednisone and nursed... stayed on it until roughly 5/06 when I wanted to begin TTC #2. Was seeing a crappy rheumatologist (are there good ones???) and weaned myself off pred by taking 2.5mg for 2 weeks then going off. BAD move. I was a MESS!

Got pg with #2 in 6/08 and was in really bad shape- could barely walk. Rheumy who was crappy was out of town, her backup would not medicate a pg woman, so I went to my old family dr who put me on a pred course, starting at 20mg and tapering down. In the meantime I got appt with new rheumy. Well I tapered off the 20mg and the pain came back. He booped me up to a 40mg course, tapering to 10mg. I did a litle btter. Rheumy rx'd 20mg. I took that much and ultimately stopped working and appllied for disability bc I could not function. I ended up being able to wean to 10mg and took that much until about end of 07-beginning of 08 and I was down to 8mg then. I have since began seeing a naturopath.

Naturopath recommended dietary changes and they helped but bottom line is anytime I get below 5mg I don't do well. I asked naturopath about it and she said I needed strong natural antiinflammatories on board, she recommended efa's and the aura patch. I like this doc a lot, and all of us go... but I feel like after being on steriods basically 5 years continuously that I need more help than "you need natural anti-inflammatories" I mean my adrenals could be shot but no one has checked.

I am going to call the naturopath/md this week and talk with her about this, but if she has no idea what to do, where should I go from here?

BTW. I have seen a chiro and had a hair analysis and muscle testing done. I am on Drenamin for my adrenals but I am still struggling now that I am getting under 5mg prednisone.


----------



## Blooming

Gabrielle's Mom- Do you mind if I ask how the muscle testing is done?
I hope your feeling well today...


----------



## tanyalynn

Jane, since you mentioned biomed for your son, I was wondering if heavy metals were part of his problem, and if you've considered them for yourself? I ask because heavy metals are part of why my adrenals (and thyroid and hormonal stuff) are in bad shape. For me, it was the mercury in my fillings, but I know other people have other causes. Both my parents are having health problems due to _their_ amalgams fillings as well, so I am really feeling how this can run in families at the moment. I just wanted to see if you've considered it. I know that for me, I don't think my adrenals would really be able to heal without getting rid of my amalgams (did that in April of this year







).


----------



## Gabrielle's Mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blooming* 
Gabrielle's Mom- Do you mind if I ask how the muscle testing is done?
I hope your feeling well today...


Here is a link. http://www.appliedkinesiology.com/

My chiro uses an electronic device, some chiros test with the arm muscle.


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## Blooming

Thank you!


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## Metasequoia

Jane, our results were nearly identical, I'm also in stage 7 & have the same rythym throughout the day & almost exactly the same numbers. My DHEA was also 2, it's moved up to a 3 in a year of treatment.

Gabrielle's Mom, did you ever have a Lyme test done or do you have any reason to suspect it? I agree that if relief is found through prednisone, the adrenals aren't in great shape, but I also wonder about Lyme when arthritis is a problem.


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## Gabrielle's Mom

If I have Lyme, I've had it for 26 years because my arthritis started as JRA and was dx at age 5. Never been tested.


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## rominick

Thanks for all the great links, WuWei! Some good reading there!

GabriellesMom: One thing that I have found in all my researching is that there is much more to the autoimmune thing. Mostly an underlying cause that can be corrected. Finding which cause or CAUSES more likely, is the hard part. For me I believe it to be severe Candida/leaky gut/adrenal fatigue and probably Lyme with co-infections of mycoplasma/brucellosis (long cow story). Testing for Lyme is difficult though and there are a LOT of false negatives. I also believe that I passed the Lyme stuff (as well as the rest of my toxic load) to my kids. So start looking past the RA for possible causes and address those. You may find that your symptoms diminish. I am controlling my symptoms with diet and it is working so that I can avoid the meds. I still have symptoms, but not as severe. It is like I am stalling it until I get to the root of the problem.

TanyaLopez: Yes, we chelated my son for several years. I know it is part of my problem as well. I never had amalgams and only have 6 composite resin fillings. So, not too bad, but from hair tests, know that I still have issues. I also have high Epstein Barr numbers, so know that viral is part of it as well. So many components and where to start!?! This is why I just have done diet so far and am constantly debating what to do next since I am still nursing and don't want to dump too much too quickly. Glad to hear you got your amalgams out!!

:yawning:







:Mama to Erik (11) ASD







:, Severe Dyslexia, Julie (8) asthma, eczema and Christopher 17 mo NT so far and unvaccinated














:


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## rominick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
This office figures that your body should take care of itself. If you have things like food allergies or other autoimmune disorders, they're a symptom of your body being out of whack. Dd's food sensitivities where the reason I went in (for myself) in the first place. They figure that for most people, the adrenals are the first thing that's going to be out of whack, then that'll push other stuff, and it's a whole cascade. So AF->hypothyroid->fatigue and AF->yeast overgrowth (or whatever)->food reactions. And (usually) gluten intolerance+modern stressful life+(maybe) parasites/GI infections->AF. The protocol for me is to eliminate as many stressors as possible (life, foods/elimination diet, etc) and support the adrenals as much as possible (vitamins). Once the adrenals are in good shape, then the body can calm down and instead of attacking itself or foods, heal itself.

So yeah, once the adrenals are taken care of and the body is healthy, the food sensitivities should go away. But you can't just ignore them in the meantime.


This info is extremely helpful, so thank you! The hardest part for me has been where to start and what to focus on. There just seems to be so much. I have the book "Detoxify or Die" by Sherry Rogers and it is good, but makes you realize just how much junk is in our bodies and needs to get OUT. It has also been hard to want to detoxify, but yet not put a lot in the breastmilk in the process. I can't tell you how many people have told me to "just stop breastfeeding" and I am so sick of hearing that. I feel guilty enough with what I am already passing on, but do know that it is still better than the artificial stuff.

Jane

:yawning:







:Mama to Erik (11) ASD







:, Severe Dyslexia, Julie (8) asthma, eczema and Christopher 17 mo NT so far and unvaccinated














:


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## rominick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Jane, our results were nearly identical, I'm also in stage 7 & have the same rythym throughout the day & almost exactly the same numbers. My DHEA was also 2, it's moved up to a 3 in a year of treatment.

Gabrielle's Mom, did you ever have a Lyme test done or do you have any reason to suspect it? I agree that if relief is found through prednisone, the adrenals aren't in great shape, but I also wonder about Lyme when arthritis is a problem.

Metasequoia: It was seeing your results on that first message that spurred me on to get the saliva test in the first place and boy, am I glad I did! So thank you! It sure fit another piece of the puzzle together for me. I also posted my results on the Yahoo Adrenal group and it was helpful to learn just where in the fatigue line up I am. Now to look at the supplements. I have some Biotics Research Cytozyme -AD and started taking that yesterday. I think I will look at that Mil Andregen or whatever that was as well. I am working my way through this thread again to learn more and reading all of the great links referenced. It definitely takes some time and hard to do when your brain is fried to begin with!

Jane
:yawning:







:Mama to Erik (11) ASD







:, Severe Dyslexia, Julie (8) asthma, eczema and Christopher 17 mo NT so far and unvaccinated














:


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## Theloose

I wanted to share - I've been playing with vitamins more, and making progress more. My 20mo dd is nursing, and I haven't gone the route of replacement hormones or glandulars, etc at all. So it seems like this would be a pretty safe place for most people to start if they don't have professional guidance.

What I've boiled it down to is that when I take *all* the nutrients to support my adrenals, I feel amazing. When I don't, I'm tired and irritable, though depending on what I'm missing, I can do an okay job of controlling it.

Here's my daily vitamins:
morning:
1 B-50 complex (If I forget it, I start to feel crazy)
1000 mg Pantothenic Acid (B5) (forget this, I get angry at the drop of a hat)
100 mg P-5-P (preformed vitamin B6) (B6 uses riboflavin to convert to it's active form, and I seem to have a tendency towards low riboflavin, so I'm using the preformed kind)

each meal:
500 mg bone calcium (in order to balance with magnesium - you don't want too binding or too laxative) (forget this, and my teeth get sensitive. I'm prone to cavities.)

before bed:
800 mg magnesium
2 Tbsp honey (helps amazingly with restorative sleep)

And all day, 2g vitamin C, every time I remember. That adds up to about 8-10g/day. (forget this one, and I'm tired and blah.)

I'm also trying to remember to do a drop or so of lugol's iodine, but I forget most days.

So when I do *all* of that, I feel amazing and ready to take on the world. At first, I attributed it to the b vitamins. But then I was being good about them but still not feeling great. Added in the vitamin C and felt amazing. So here's how I think about it: Have I supported my adrenals today? And in order to answer yes, I need to be taking *all* of those nutrients. But then I feel fantastic.

Changes that I can point to, besides energy, are getting to a food sensitivity baseline and bringing back eggs, having more energy than ever in my life for a week of camping/hiking at yellowstone, improved sleep, my appetite has normalized, and I'm actually getting thirsty like a normal person. Now that I have the vitamins *really* figured out (for this month...), I'm hoping for some faster progress!


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## MommyHawk

I'm concerned. My doctor just prescribed Florinef and now that I read about it online, I'm not sure this is the best way to go. I'm afraid of being on a med that I have to take it every day for the rest of my life, wear a bracelet so that in case of an accident I will be given the pill so I don't die, and to take more than one on really stressful occasions. This seems to me way too much.

However, I can't keep feeling the way I have been. IMO I think finding out what I'm deficient in and 'healing' my adrenals would be a safer route.

Anyone else take Florinef? Are you ok taking it? Is it not really that bad as I've read online? Or is healing a better option?


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Back on topic, low blood pressure is definitely common, and iirc, a high heart rate to try to keep the blood flowing would make sense. Do you like salt? Low sodium caused by low aldosterone is the cause of low blood pressure in AF.

I've read that it's a sodium/potassium imbalance..

From the paper that came with my licorice extract from Clymer:

Quote:

The licorice extract inhibits 11 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (11-BHOD) in the kidneys. 11-BHOD is the enzyme that inactivates cortisol. People with adrenal insufficiency do not retain enough sodium, and have an excess of potassium. The ratio between our body's sodium & potassium is like a seesaw. If one goes up, the other is down. Blocking 11-BHOD in the kidneys allows cortisol access to the mineralocorticoid receptors triggering an increased retention of sodium and a lowering of potassium. This action brings a person with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome into sodium/potassium balance, therefore, supplementing these individuals with potassium is not needed nor recommended.
The increased sodium causes the body to conserve water, which quickly increases your overall blood volume. Increased blood volume indirecty increases blood pressure by increasing the efficiency of the heart.
Since our sodium is low, perhaps our bodies are just trying to fix the imbalance by craving salt...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I wanted to share - I've been playing with vitamins more, and making progress more. My 20mo dd is nursing, and I haven't gone the route of replacement hormones or glandulars, etc at all. So it seems like this would be a pretty safe place for most people to start if they don't have professional guidance.

What I've boiled it down to is that when I take *all* the nutrients to support my adrenals, I feel amazing. When I don't, I'm tired and irritable, though depending on what I'm missing, I can do an okay job of controlling it.

Here's my daily vitamins:
morning:
1 B-50 complex (If I forget it, I start to feel crazy)
1000 mg Pantothenic Acid (B5) (forget this, I get angry at the drop of a hat)
100 mg P-5-P (preformed vitamin B6) (B6 uses riboflavin to convert to it's active form, and I seem to have a tendency towards low riboflavin, so I'm using the preformed kind)

each meal:
500 mg bone calcium (in order to balance with magnesium - you don't want too binding or too laxative) (forget this, and my teeth get sensitive. I'm prone to cavities.)

before bed:
800 mg magnesium
2 Tbsp honey (helps amazingly with restorative sleep)

And all day, 2g vitamin C, every time I remember. That adds up to about 8-10g/day. (forget this one, and I'm tired and blah.)

I'm also trying to remember to do a drop or so of lugol's iodine, but I forget most days.

So when I do *all* of that, I feel amazing and ready to take on the world. At first, I attributed it to the b vitamins. But then I was being good about them but still not feeling great. Added in the vitamin C and felt amazing. So here's how I think about it: Have I supported my adrenals today? And in order to answer yes, I need to be taking *all* of those nutrients. But then I feel fantastic.

Changes that I can point to, besides energy, are getting to a food sensitivity baseline and bringing back eggs, having more energy than ever in my life for a week of camping/hiking at yellowstone, improved sleep, my appetite has normalized, and I'm actually getting thirsty like a normal person. Now that I have the vitamins *really* figured out (for this month...), I'm hoping for some faster progress!

That's awesome. I recently read something about excess B vitamins (can't remember which one - B6, I think..) causing skin itching. Itching has been one of my biggest complaints, right up there with the muscle pain. My Mil Adregen already has some Bs, and I'm afraid to increase my intake. I noticed before that when I took a B-complex on top of the Mil Adregen I was *amped* all day & had trouble sleeping. I wonder if I need to balance it with something?

I'm so bad, I have tons of magnesium citrate & sodium ascorbate & I'm just too lazy or forgetful to take it every day.


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## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I've read that it's a sodium/potassium imbalance..

Aldosterone (one of the adrenal hormones) is responsible for excreting potassium and retaining sodium. When it's low, the opposite happens - you retain potassium and excrete sodium. That's why salt is so important for AF, because you're constantly losing it so you need to keep the supply up. Licorice also works to retain sodium and excrete potassium, but don't know the mechanism.

Quote:

I recently read something about excess B vitamins (can't remember which one - B6, I think..) causing skin itching. Itching has been one of my biggest complaints, right up there with the muscle pain. My Mil Adregen already has some Bs, and I'm afraid to increase my intake. I noticed before that when I took a B-complex on top of the Mil Adregen I was *amped* all day & had trouble sleeping. I wonder if I need to balance it with something?

I'm so bad, I have tons of magnesium citrate & sodium ascorbate & I'm just too lazy or forgetful to take it every day.








My mom told me that b vitamins would make me wired, but they didn't. When I was figuring them out, I googled my new symptom and 'b vitamins' to figure out which one was causing it. They all work together, and the way I see it, when you supplement, you're totally shifting the balance so you'll have a new limiting factor. Add more of that limiting factor, and shift the balance. Repeat until you feel good









You could tell yourself you'll take *all* the vitamins for a week, just to test and see how they make you feel. Then decide if they're doing anything and if it's worth being lazy or forgetful







I was there too, but actually feeling the difference I think is enough motivation for me to keep them up.


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## tanyalynn

WhoMe--wow, that's great, and I'm impressed. I just had one thought...

Quote:

I'm also trying to remember to do a drop or so of lugol's iodine, but I forget most days.
About this part, iodine will mobilize mercury. We all have some, it's a matter of how much. For most people, it's probably not a huge concern, but occasional people will be having adrenal problems _because_ of their mercury, in which case their nursing child will also have a lot mecury and be more sensitive to getting more. I took supplemental iodine when dealing with my thyroid while nursing, and although I didn't see frank symptoms in my son, I think I probably mobilized a lot into my milk. So even though it's not everyone's situation, I wanted to bring it up as food for thought.

But again, wow! I'm impressed with your results. My husband (just got his adrenal results back, and his adrenals are probably worse than mine) is starting/adding in a lot to be very similar (plus a glandular) and I can only hope that he actually begins to feel better (we've been getting mentally set for him to take quite a while to start to improve).








:


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## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
About this part, iodine will mobilize mercury. We all have some, it's a matter of how much. For most people, it's probably not a huge concern, but occasional people will be having adrenal problems _because_ of their mercury, in which case their nursing child will also have a lot mecury and be more sensitive to getting more. I took supplemental iodine when dealing with my thyroid while nursing, and although I didn't see frank symptoms in my son, I think I probably mobilized a lot into my milk. So even though it's not everyone's situation, I wanted to bring it up as food for thought.

Good to know! I'm hoping that I don't have too much mercury in me, since I've never had amalgams in permanent teeth, but I don't know how to know for sure...


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## rominick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Good to know! I'm hoping that I don't have too much mercury in me, since I've never had amalgams in permanent teeth, but I don't know how to know for sure...

Remember it is more than just mercury. My main metals are cadmium, lead and uranium as well as some mercury. Then aluminum is a problem for most as it is in so many things.

Jane
:yawning:







:Mama to Erik (11) ASD







:, Severe Dyslexia, Julie (8) asthma, eczema and Christopher 17 mo NT so far and unvaccinated














:


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## tanyalynn

Quote:

Remember it is more than just mercury. My main metals are cadmium, lead and uranium as well as some mercury. Then aluminum is a problem for most as it is in so many things.
Does iodine mobilize those as well? See how limited my reading has been?


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## tanyalynn

Quote:

TanyaLopez: Yes, we chelated my son for several years. I know it is part of my problem as well. I never had amalgams and only have 6 composite resin fillings. So, not too bad, but from hair tests, know that I still have issues. I also have high Epstein Barr numbers, so know that viral is part of it as well. So many components and where to start!?! This is why I just have done diet so far and am constantly debating what to do next since I am still nursing and don't want to dump too much too quickly. Glad to hear you got your amalgams out!!
It's hard to deal with all this while still nursing.







That's why it took til April for me to get the dental work done. And I hear Epstein Barr can be tricky (totally aside from the other stuff, which is also not simple).







It's a good group of people here who have lots of good ideas!


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## lucky_mia

Anyone else diagnosed with Adreanal Insufficiency/Addison's Disease? I was diagnosed this summer and I am not on Prendisone daily and I also need to carry an emergency steroid dose and wear a medical id bracelet. I have a feeling I am the only person on MDC with this diagnosis.


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## MommyHawk

Florinef...anyone take Florinef? What are your thoughts on this medication?


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## lucky_mia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyHawk* 
Florinef...anyone take Florinef? What are your thoughts on this medication?

I am not currently taking it but my doctor said I may end of on it too. Lots of Addison's patients take it but I haven't really looked into it yet. Do you have a diagnosis.


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## Poddi

My doctor ordered cortisol test for me. The results came back perfectly normal. So she told me to just relax. I still feel very crappy, though. Is naturapath the only option now? I'm sure our insurance won't cover that.


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## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Poddi* 
My doctor ordered cortisol test for me. The results came back perfectly normal. So she told me to just relax. I still feel very crappy, though. Is naturapath the only option now? I'm sure our insurance won't cover that.

Find an MD that is knowledgeable about natural treatments. They are out there.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Poddi* 
My doctor ordered cortisol test for me. The results came back perfectly normal. So she told me to just relax. I still feel very crappy, though. Is naturapath the only option now? I'm sure our insurance won't cover that.

How did they do it? You need multiple cortisol tests. Some people have low cortisol at one time of day and high another. Some are high or low all the time. My mom sees some quack who has her collect her pee for 24 hours in a jug and bring it in, then they test it, which tells them nothing, because it's an _average._ If she's low in the morning and high at night, but it all averages out over 24 hours, he knows squat about it.









cortisol balance affects your sleep, which is one of the reasons they need to test AM and PM levels at the very least.

http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/sleep_disorders.php


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## Poddi

We did an AM and PM blood tests. She did say my PM result is a bit high compared to the morning one. I think it might be that I got up super early to have the AM test done before work and school. Since I got up early, I was still tired so the cortisol level wasn't as high as it should be?


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Poddi* 
We did an AM and PM blood tests. She did say my PM result is a bit high compared to the morning one. I think it might be that I got up super early to have the AM test done before work and school. Since I got up early, I was still tired so the cortisol level wasn't as high as it should be?

I'm not 100% sure about that. Maybe? Someone else who knows a bit more will have to field that one.

Do you belong to any of the adrenals support groups, like the one on yahoo? There are people there who can decipher the numbers for you better than I can and who can probably tell you for _sure._ I always forget the specifics when it comes to the numbers.

It does seem odd that she would comment that one seemed a bit high and then turn around and tell you they were both 'normal' doesn't it?







Is it _high_, or is it _normal_??


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## Blooming

My doctor just had me spit into tubes at four diffrent times during the day. I could not eat or brush my teeth for an hour before. Has anyone else done this? Do you know how accurate the results are?


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## rominick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Does iodine mobilize those as well? See how limited my reading has been?









I am not sure on this one. There is SO much info to weed through, so even if you were up on your reading, there is always more!

Jane
:yawning:







:Mama to Erik (11) ASD







:, Severe Dyslexia, Julie (8) asthma, eczema and Christopher 17 mo NT so far and unvaccinated














:


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## rominick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blooming* 
My doctor just had me spit into tubes at four diffrent times during the day. I could not eat or brush my teeth for an hour before. Has anyone else done this? Do you know how accurate the results are?


I would say they are very accurate. Mine reflected pretty much how I have been feeling. I also recently posted my results on the Yahoo Adrenal group and there is a lot of help and info over there. It sure helped me to pull together a lot of what I have read. It seems to be that the Diagnos-Techs Saliva test is the gold standard in the world of adrenal fatigue. It is at least affordable as well.

Jane
:yawning:







:Mama to Erik (11) ASD







:, Severe Dyslexia, Julie (8) asthma, eczema and Christopher 17 mo NT so far and unvaccinated














:


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## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rominick* 
Remember it is more than just mercury. My main metals are cadmium, lead and uranium as well as some mercury. Then aluminum is a problem for most as it is in so many things.

How does one know (or suspect) that metals are a problem?

And I found some cool lectures on adrenal fatigue here:
http://www.hawthornuniversity.org/Pu...leclasses.aspx
there's "Adrenal Health and Fatigue" by Liz Lipski (author of Digestive Wellness) and "Nutritional Strategies for Adrenal Support" by Sarah Bearden


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## rominick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
How does one know (or suspect) that metals are a problem?


I found out since I have a child with autism and did a hair test on his baby hair. He had a lot of hair so I happened to have some saved from when he was 3 months old that I had cut to get out of his eyes. When those results came back off the charts for a lot of the metals, I figured they must have come from me somehow. So I went on to do a hair test on myself. I did it through Doctor's Data (via directlabs.com) and that is how I knew I had a problem.

It kind of comes down to if you are a type that detoxes well or not (APO2 or APO3 or 4). Those that do not will accumulate over the years to toxic levels and things start to go wrong. There is a lot to it and the metals, the yeast, the viruses, etc. all just love each other. That is why it is so hard to get rid of it all.

Jane
:yawning:







:Mama to Erik (11) ASD







:, Severe Dyslexia, Julie (8) asthma, eczema and Christopher 17 mo NT so far and unvaccinated














:


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## tanyalynn

Quote:

How does one know (or suspect) that metals are a problem?
I found out in the reverse order of Jane--my health went downhill and _then_ I pieced together that the kids were affected too. I second the DDI hair test approach even though I didn't do it myself (later did it for my daughter, specifically to look for lead, but more generally to see if anything was unexpected). I was diagnosed symptomatically by someone very experienced with mercury. Thyroid and adrenal problems are very common in mercury toxic people, along with mood problems (anxiety and intermittent depression for me), and allergies (mine are mostly environmental and not serious). For me I can trace back the anxiety and allergies to just shortly after I got my fillings, but some people end up in the yahoo chelation groups with symptoms and test results that say metals are a problem without being able to identify their exposure.


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## Theloose

So then by virtue of the fact that I'm interested in my health and am in this alternative health land and know about adrenal fatigue, I should go get my hair tested, because anyone can be metal-toxic?

How do you know if you're APO2 or APO3 or 4? And how much do these tests cost?


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## tanyalynn

Quote:

So then by virtue of the fact that I'm interested in my health and am in this alternative health land and know about adrenal fatigue, I should go get my hair tested, because anyone can be metal-toxic?
I think the folks who consistently hang out at H&H are a lot more likely to be metal toxic than some person off the street (or folks that hang out in the less health-problem-centric forums). And although it was really scary at first, I've found this to be very treatable and I'm grateful to know now rather than later--if it's a problem for someone, it's not going to get better on its own, yk?

You can do testing for $75 if you call directlabs an mention the autism-mercury yahoo group (regular price is $93) and if you find a local doc who has an account with DDI you may be able to do it cheaper. DDI is the company that actually does the testing--they require a doc to order the test and directlabs puts a doctor's name on it. Results are pretty quick.

Here's a link that describes what/why/how:
http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html


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## rominick

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
How do you know if you're APO2 or APO3 or 4? And how much do these tests cost?

I wouldn't bother getting tested. I tested my child and it was $800 just to tell me what I already knew, he doesn't detox well. Here is a link to kind of give you an idea about APO (apolipoprotein):
http://www.jigsawhealth.com/articles..._toxicity.html

If you read about it a bit, you could probably figure out where you fit in. The easiest way to determine is with a hair test and even that is not crystal clear. It is all about interpreting the minerals (disordered mineral transport) at the bottom of the test to really know if you have a problem. The link that Tanya gave is a good one.

Jane
:yawning:







:Mama to Erik (11) ASD







:, Severe Dyslexia, Julie (8) asthma, eczema and Christopher 17 mo NT so far and unvaccinated














:


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## Blooming

About the metal testing, is it possible to safely clense your self of them? My doctor wants to test a sample of my hair. (I'm currently a Fibro diagnosis)
She says if it is high she wants to remove my fillings before she does anything? Oh does anyone know hoe most people clense themselves?


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## tanyalynn

Quote:

About the metal testing, is it possible to safely clense your self of them? My doctor wants to test a sample of my hair. (I'm currently a Fibro diagnosis)
She says if it is high she wants to remove my fillings before she does anything? Oh does anyone know hoe most people clense themselves?
Getting rid of metals can be done safely and reasonably comfortably, or very, very badly and with nasty things happening. It's a topic that you'll really, really need to educate yourself on. I lucked onto a healthcare provider that clued me in _and_ uses the approach that I feel most comfortable with (after I did outside reading--reading multiple places really is important--because if heavy metals accumulated enough to cause your fibro, then taking the metals out needs to be done very carefully in order to avoid lots of equally nasty side effects, iykwim).

I couldn't do much before getting my fillings out. I did that in April and am now chelating using ala and dmsa orally (alternating weekends every 3 hrs). I am recently really feeling better--it doesn't magically solve the adrenal fatigue, for example, but my mood is significantly better for a couple weeks now (in a way I haven't experienced in years), and now that the metals are on their way out, I think my adrenals will have a much smoother journey to heal.

There's a Chelating Mamas thread in Dental that mostly discusses Andy Cutler-style frequent, low dose oral chelation. I found a lot of good info there, but you'll need to read more to really have a good feel for what's safe and what's not.


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## BeingMe

I'm trying to submit my test to insurance for reimbursement. Anyone know the proper diagnosis for adrenal fatigue for blue cross?


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## MommyHawk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
I am not currently taking it but my doctor said I may end of on it too. Lots of Addison's patients take it but I haven't really looked into it yet. Do you have a diagnosis.

I have only suspicions. My cardiologist gave me the Florinef (which I have yet to start because what I've read sounds so 'terminal'). My Chiro ordered me the ASI and the results are in the mail! Sooo, I'm hoping to get those today and have her read them to see if I should infact start the florinef OR maybe do B vit's and granuals instead to 'heal' the adrenals. If there isn't anything wrong with me adrenal wise, I have NO idea which way to turn.

* I'm constantly dizzy, made worse by movement of my head, dipping down, side to side
* I get palpitations, but my heart is picture perfect
* I don't wake up until about 9pm
* SALT - don't have any in my body and crave it all the time
* SUGAR - can't get enough
* hair stopped falling out after I stared with CALM (magnesium supplement to help increase calcium absorption)
* mind is very foggy, can't think straight, can't remember anything (which is horrible since I can't remember what to tell the docs when I do get in to see them)
* horribly tired but can't fall asleep, then can't wake up
* rosacea
* what else...

it's just the more I read about it, the more 'adrenal' all my symptoms point to...I don't care if my doc doesn't get it. I want answers not some prescription thrown at me because he can't figure it out.

of all his test results, I'm within normal ranges, so nothing screams out at him. He is guessing maybe mild seizures now...what?!?!? I would get a new doc, but where to find one that knows anything about AF?


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyHawk* 
* SALT - don't have any in my body and crave it all the time
* SUGAR - can't get enough

I hate both of these. I could seriously eat handsful of salt and don't even get me started on sugar. What's up with that?







: Why the sugar cravings? I can handle the salt cravings, not such a big deal, but I used to be the kind of person who'd choose fruit over fudge and now I'll take the fudge ten times over.


----------



## MommyHawk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I hate both of these. I could seriously eat handsful of salt and don't even get me started on sugar. What's up with that?







: Why the sugar cravings? I can handle the salt cravings, not such a big deal, but I used to be the kind of person who'd choose fruit over fudge and now I'll take the fudge ten times over.

the more and more I read, the more obvious that your body craves what you need, so I indulge. However, if everything worked the way it was supposed to...we might not need cravings!


----------



## Blooming

What I don't understand (about my body) is why it craves things like a vanilla shake but the minute I give in and make one (DH even makes it from homemade ice cream) I feel horrible. I sometimes fet shakey and nervous.

I shouldn't of thought about the vanilla shake. Now I am craving one again.


----------



## Pookietooth

You could need fat, and maybe if you make your own ice cream with pure raw cream and sweeten it just a little with honey you could make a shake with that. Unless you are dairy sensitive.


----------



## MommyHawk

I just got my results back from Diagnos Tec and they were very descriptive with charts and explanations. I'm so estatic to finally see in black and white that I'm not crazy! My chiro read my results and made some suggestions on what supplements to take.


----------



## Tanibani

Hi everyone... I'm 39 and have been going through the same thing for a few years now. I have been subscribed on this thread from the beginning, but I don't think I've posted my story. (And I won't now b/c I'm busy.)

All I want to say to everyone dealing with this is to get the book

http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/

featured on the top of that website. IT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am seeing someone (alternative health practioner, who has dealt with this herself and recovered) who has been giving me supplements and they have helped... but frankly, what has really helped me is me following the SIMPLE TIPS in that book. (She lent me her copy.)

For example... I run on nervous energy (then I crash). I am used to feeling "wired and tired" a lot.

One of the tips is to get more sleep. Force yourself to sleep in till 9am (ha, ain't gonna happen in my house, even on weekends) but AT LEAST till 7am.

I used to be wide awake at 4:30 or 5:30 am (typically) and I used to get up and get online. Now I force myself to stay in bed and I do conk out and I wake up at 7am.... and I have noticed just that little thing has helped me.

There are LOTS of tips in the book...

For example, what triggers your fatigue???? I discovered that my STRONG NEGATIVE EMOTIONS really bring me down.... I was furious at a friend a few weeks ago and I was bedridden the whole freakin' weekend! So now I know to keep myself in check... or at least not wallow in fury.

BTW, my doctor has cautioned me against going through any detoxing right now. She said that when most people detox, it's not done right and the toxins are running rampant in the body for awhile and the practioners tell them "oh it's normal." No it's not. She wants me to get 'normal' and strong again and then we'll do a detox.

Another tip - Laugh every day. Sounds silly. Sounds obvious, but frankly, my life has turned into drudgery and I needed to snap out of it and remind myself I LOVE every minute of being a SAHM. And now I try to enjoy what I can...

The book has stories of real people... one man forced himself to read the comics, see funny movies, whatever to cheer himself up every day. It helped him a lot.

SUGAR - we are supposed to avoid it. We crave it and then we crash. Get the book, read the explanation... I don't remember off the top of my head.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Aldosterone (one of the adrenal hormones) is responsible for excreting potassium and retaining sodium. When it's low, the opposite happens - you retain potassium and excrete sodium. That's why salt is so important for AF, because you're constantly losing it so you need to keep the supply up. *Licorice also works to retain sodium and excrete potassium, but don't know the mechanism.*


Quote:

The licorice extract inhibits 11 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (11-BHOD) in the kidneys. 11-BHOD is the enzyme that inactivates cortisol. People with adrenal insufficiency do not retain enough sodium, and have an excess of potassium. The ratio between our body's sodium & potassium is like a seesaw. If one goes up, the other is down. Blocking 11-BHOD in the kidneys allows cortisol access to the mineralocorticoid receptors triggering an increased retention of sodium and a lowering of potassium. This action brings a person with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome into sodium/potassium balance, therefore, supplementing these individuals with otassium is not needed nor recommended.
The increased sodium causes the body to conserve water, which quickly increases your overall blood volume. Increased blood volume indirecty increases blood pressure by increasing the efficiency of the heart.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
Anyone else diagnosed with Adreanal Insufficiency/Addison's Disease? I was diagnosed this summer and I am not on Prendisone daily and I also need to carry an emergency steroid dose and wear a medical id bracelet. I have a feeling I am the only person on MDC with this diagnosis.

How were you diagnosed? Did you do a 4 time/day saliva cortisol test? Just trying to figure out where you are. What kind of doctor dxd you?


----------



## Metasequoia

Sorry to be MIA, I was on vacation for 3 WEEKS! We went to the beach & it took me the first 2 weeks to _relax_. I fell into the old bad habit of daily morning coffee & boy am I feeling it.







I also broke down & ate wheat, tsk, tsk. But now that I'm home, the wheat is out, but the coffee is still here.

I felt good for the last part, mentally at least. It's clear that there's stress here that is preventing me from fully healing, but I can't get away from it (him.)

That hair test sounds like a good idea, but am I right that you can't get proper results if you're bfing?


----------



## meandk0610

does anyone get like adrenaline shots at night when trying to fall asleep? i sometimes get them over and over for up to 3 hours. it feels like i'm getting a palpitation at the same time but last night i felt my pulse while they were happening and there are no palpitations (whew!). just this huge squeeze of adrenaline like every 20 minutes.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:

That hair test sounds like a good idea, but am I right that you can't get proper results if you're bfing?
IIRC, the test is more likely to show a false positive (showing deranged mineral transport when in fact it is not) in one particular pattern (an all-low pattern where the majority of minerals show up really, really low). So it's not completely useless, but it needs caution in the interpretation. I will go and look it up, hopefully later today, since this comes up a lot around here.


----------



## onelittleone

I was recently diagnosed with hashimoto's and now adrenal fatigue. I am 35 with a progesterone level of .05. There is so much information - I am dizzy from it. How do you process it all??


----------



## klynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onelittleone* 
I was recently diagnosed with hashimoto's and now adrenal fatigue. I am 35 with a progesterone level of .05. There is so much information - I am dizzy from it. How do you process it all??

Information overload - I can relate...

11 years since my first diagnosis with Hashimoto's thyroid (not to mention 3 years of being misdiagnosed and finally told it was "in my head"














. My journey has taken me through extreme depressions & an eating disorder, candida, poor detox, digestion problems & constipation, weight problems, chronic fatigue, etc.

The research never stops. I am blessed to have reached a point where I have things 'under control', but only in the last year or two have I stopped the roller coaster ups and downs in energy and moods. This year the depressive episodes have completely ceased. I have been amazed at some drastic improvements that came from applying various things I have discovered in my search (through reading, the web & various doctors). It is like being given new life and the more I am given, the more I crave. I will never stop searching.

I suffered for so long and maybe now, since I am blessed to find relief (for most of the time), maybe I can help others avoid or shorten the long road of trial and errors I had to take.

In answer to your question: As you begin your journey and learn the value of taking an active role in your own health, you will search many places. You will eventually find common threads amongst all the information that will gleam answers for you. You will find success stories that are common to your own situation and the answers will start to unravel for you. One of the best books I have used as of late was Feeling Fat, Fuzzy or Frazzled by Dr. Richard Shames. I love his books on thyroid. There are so many more, all good for their own reasons. I have taken parts from every one of them, sometimes alone & sometimes in combination with others. Living Well With Autoimmune Disease by Mary Shomon gives a good basic overview. Digestive Wellness by Elizabeth Lipski is another one. I have reviewed so many. Try to find some good general books (like Feeling Fat, Fuzzy or Frazzeled) and then dig into some of the individual subjects/situations that you find apply to you. Autoimmune, digestion, adrenals and thyroid are pretty good subject areas that encompass and you will find all are interrelated. Start with a good vitamin program (make sure your vitamins come from good sources and are of high quality). The Way Up by Priscilla Slagle (she has a website) has done absolute wonders for me.

Best wishes to you in your search for heatlh! It can seem long and frustrating at times, but in time, it also can be a most rewarding journey as well!







:


----------



## klynn

Saralyao

My normal doctors say I have a heart murmur and attribute it to that. Over the last 10 years as I have treated my thyroid and finally learned to get my diet into decent shape (minimal processed foods), it has stopped. I do notice it comes back when I start having a lot of sugar in my diet, but I'm not sure why. Just limit my sugar now, so I'm not worried since it hasn't come back.


----------



## LovemyBoo

Subbing to this thread.

My mother was recently diagnosed with Adrenal Fatigue. She's also dealing with degenerative disc disorder in her neck, and hypoglycemia. I'm so glad to see this thread. She can no longer use the computer to do research herself and I'm overwhelmed with all the information out there.


----------



## klynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovemyBoo* 
Subbing to this thread.

My mother was recently diagnosed with Adrenal Fatigue. She's also dealing with degenerative disc disorder in her neck, and hypoglycemia. I'm so glad to see this thread. She can no longer use the computer to do research herself and I'm overwhelmed with all the information out there.

If you are just starting, here's a little of decent info about the hypoglycemia diet.

http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/artic...emic_diet.html


----------



## LovemyBoo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *klynn* 
If you are just starting, here's a little of decent info about the hypoglycemia diet.

http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/artic...emic_diet.html

Thank you, Klynn!

I've read the first 15 pages of the thread so far and noticed that many of you use the NT diet, is that diet good for hypoglycemia as well?


----------



## klynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovemyBoo* 
Thank you, Klynn!

I've read the first 15 pages of the thread so far and noticed that many of you use the NT diet, is that diet good for hypoglycemia as well?

Hadn't heard of this, but I did search "NT diet" and this link includes a discussion on it...

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=nt+diet

I'm allergic to dairy and since cutting out grains (for the most part), I feel tons better. It sounds like it works for some and others not. Worth experimenting on your own with diets to see how you feel after a month or so of trying. I do eat bars from Whole Foods that say they are organic & claim to have things like "sprouted Barley Malt. Not sure that's related. Mostly eat raw foods w/chicken, tuna & fish. I'm pretty sensitive to foods, so it's easier for me to stay on a cleaner diet than most. I know everyone is different though, so check out their discussion and let us know how things work for you if you try it.

In regards to hypoglycemia, just watch the types of foods that spike your blood sugar. High glycemic foods include anything that converts to sugar more quickly such as regular potatoes, rice (you can find a list by searching the web for 'food glycemic index' or something similar). Complex carbs burn more slowly. Try to keep the sugar out. Candida was been a struggle at one time, so I keep sugars to a minimum.


----------



## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *klynn* 
Hadn't heard of this, but I did search "NT diet" and this link includes a discussion on it...

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=nt+diet

I usually just lurk here, but I have to jump in on this one. This linked discussion, while very interesting and informative, is not representative of the topic. There is a whole forum here, Traditional Foods, that covers the topic so much better (not that you knew that, just trying to clear some things up).

There is a book, Nourishing Traditions (NT), that explains a way of eating. That way of eating is Traditional Foods (TF). The forum I linked to has a lot of great info. Check out the stickies, and then ask whatever questions you might have. A lot of good, knowledgeable mamas there.

As for whether that way of eating helps hypoglycemia, I think it all depends. I would imagine that it would be easier to eat well for hypoglycemia if eating TF, but it's not necessarily a given. There are a lot of ways of eating that fall into traditional foods. For instance, here at our house we eat grain-free and dairy-free, so our diet looks a lot different than the diet of someone who eats raw milk and sourdough bread







. But they are both TF. So, I think that while TF can be a very healthy and healing way of eating, you probably want to look at other information about hypoglycemia and find the combination that works for you.








(stepping back out now)


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristieB* 
I usually just lurk here, but I have to jump in on this one. This linked discussion, while very interesting and informative, is not representative of the topic. There is a whole forum here, Traditional Foods, that covers the topic so much better (not that you knew that, just trying to clear some things up).

There is a book, Nourishing Traditions (NT), that explains a way of eating. That way of eating is Traditional Foods (TF). The forum I linked to has a lot of great info. Check out the stickies, and then ask whatever questions you might have. A lot of good, knowledgeable mamas there.

As for whether that way of eating helps hypoglycemia, I think it all depends. I would imagine that it would be easier to eat well for hypoglycemia if eating TF, but it's not necessarily a given. There are a lot of ways of eating that fall into traditional foods. For instance, here at our house we eat grain-free and dairy-free, so our diet looks a lot different than the diet of someone who eats raw milk and sourdough bread







. But they are both TF. So, I think that while TF can be a very healthy and healing way of eating, you probably want to look at other information about hypoglycemia and find the combination that works for you.








(stepping back out now)

Well said!


----------



## LovemyBoo

Thank you all very much! My mother is very discouraged and wishes there was a quick fix, but that's definitely not the case. I'll be ordering the Nourishing Traditions book and see what we can take from it. I really appreciate all the input.


----------



## tanyalynn

A page or two ago we were talking about heavy metal problems as one underlying cause of adrenal problems. Hair tests are one of the easier ways to see what's going on, but there can be problems with the interpretation for lactating (and probably pregnant) women. And I promised to see what my book said on the topic (Cutler's Hair Test Interpretation book).

Cutler has 5 counting rules, ways of looking at a hair test (the Hair Elements test from Doctor's Data) that indicate whether mineral transport is deranged by mercury (meaning the mercury has interfered with so much in the body that nutrients aren't able to move around to be used properly).

Rule #1 looks for a lot of minerals being low compared to the general population, and hair from lactating women is more likely to have lots of minerals low (so more lactating women fail this test than are mercury toxic). Vegetarian, especially vegan, lactating moms are particularly likely to fail this test, though non-lactating veg*ns get valid results. All the other counting rules are normal for lactating (and presumably pregnant) women.

There's a longer discussion of this in the Chelating Mamas thread in Dental.


----------



## Autumnlaughing

I just found this thread while looking for information on asthma medications that are safe for pregnancy (or, safer, anyway).

So a little intro before I start asking questions -
I'm Kat, I'm 31 and TTC #1. I've got a number of minor medical issues - lots of allergies (including food allergies, but mostly digestive sorts), asthma (coughcough), hypoglycemia, postural hypotension, and a tendency to get the weird side effects from any medication I'm given (among other things). I'm slowly getting over my TERROR of doctors (probably conditioned in as a teen from some of said weird medication reactions).

About a year ago my allergist + I realized that some of my problems might be due to adrenal insufficiency. Since then, I no longer fall asleep at work no matter how much caffine/sleep I've had, but I'm still pretty useless in the AM and from about 5 until about 10pm (bedtime..). I'm awaiting the results of a saliva test.. which should be at my allergist's office, but which I haven't seen yet.

That's the really short version, feel free to ask any questions you might have!

Back to the asthma question - I react EXTREMELY POORLY to ventolin (albuterol) - in addition to the shakes, it gives me panic attacks + generally makes me REALLY CRAZY. Two days ago, I discovered that Xopenex (levalbuterol) does the same thing. I had been taking Atrovent, but the prescription ran out, and we decided to try the Xopenex. When I realized that wouldn't work, I called the allergists office and they called in a prescription for Advair.

When I checked the information about Advair, I discovered that it's contra-indicated in folks with adrenal problems, causes thrush (we just spent a hellish 7 months combating candida), and isn't safe for pregnancy (I trust this guy, but did he look at my chart? Did my saliva test come back with no adrenal problems? Which would leave me with no answers...)









So.. I was wondering, does anyone else here have asthma? What do you do for it? I used to drink black tea (for the smooth muscle relaxant), but now we know that I'm allergic to that, too


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Autumnlaughing* 
I just found this thread while looking for information on asthma medications that are safe for pregnancy (or, safer, anyway).

So a little intro before I start asking questions -
I'm Kat, I'm 31 and TTC #1. I've got a number of minor medical issues - lots of allergies (including food allergies, but mostly digestive sorts), asthma (coughcough), hypoglycemia, postural hypotension, and a tendency to get the weird side effects from any medication I'm given (among other things). I'm slowly getting over my TERROR of doctors (probably conditioned in as a teen from some of said weird medication reactions).

About a year ago my allergist + I realized that some of my problems might be due to adrenal insufficiency. Since then, I no longer fall asleep at work no matter how much caffine/sleep I've had, but I'm still pretty useless in the AM and from about 5 until about 10pm (bedtime..). I'm awaiting the results of a saliva test.. which should be at my allergist's office, but which I haven't seen yet.

That's the really short version, feel free to ask any questions you might have!

Back to the asthma question - I react EXTREMELY POORLY to ventolin (albuterol) - in addition to the shakes, it gives me panic attacks + generally makes me REALLY CRAZY. Two days ago, I discovered that Xopenex (levalbuterol) does the same thing. I had been taking Atrovent, but the prescription ran out, and we decided to try the Xopenex. When I realized that wouldn't work, I called the allergists office and they called in a prescription for Advair.

When I checked the information about Advair, I discovered that it's contra-indicated in folks with adrenal problems, causes thrush (we just spent a hellish 7 months combating candida), and isn't safe for pregnancy (I trust this guy, but did he look at my chart? Did my saliva test come back with no adrenal problems? Which would leave me with no answers...)









So.. I was wondering, does anyone else here have asthma? What do you do for it? I used to drink black tea (for the smooth muscle relaxant), but now we know that I'm allergic to that, too









Yeah, my doctor stuck me on Advair. For some reason, I didn't question it at the time. I've been off for a long time now. I quit taking it. I can't even remember why- maybe something to do with being pregnant? My doctor's an idiot.







I hope to find someone who knows their head from their.. foot sometime in the near future.


----------



## MommyHawk

my supplements that _are_ working for me:

1/4th tsp salt (AM and at NOON)

Cataplex B

Dreninim

Calcium Lactate

Organically Bound Minerals

Licorice High Grade

I have seen a halt to my all-day-long dizzy/fainting spells and I feel like myself from morning, noon, and night! I don't have to wait until 5pm to feel like I've 'finally woken up'. The Licorice I think is doing that. The salt keeps me from feeling faint

I feel like I got by life back! And I'm not such a horrible person if the slightest stress presents itself. I'm better able to breath and think first instead of totally loosing it verbally and mentally. I wonder if all these years my DAD has had adrenal problems. He's way to quick to anger. Any ideas?

Also, it doesn't say, but should I continue *breastfeeding* with *Licorice*? what are the effects on my 2yo who night nurses, for the most part?

Thanks!


----------



## Pookietooth

Mommyhawk, I think licorice is ok with bfing an older child, at least I was put on it when I was nursing a 3 year old. Where did you get your supplements, anyway? What's that about breastfeeding on myspace?
Autumnlauging, have you already put in a shower filter, and cut out all your food allergens? Have you tried cutting out wheat and dairy? And processed foods? My asthma got a lot better after ds was born and I cut out wheat and dairy and processed foods in fighting candida. I actually haven't used my inhaler since he was like 10 months old, and he's 5 1/2 now.


----------



## Mrs_Hos

Ok...so I had my ds in Nov of 06...by Jan of 07 I was feeling 'odd' and irritated at everything and I just couldn't get enough sleep. Went to a naturopath and was dxed with adrenal fatigue--started taking AF formula from pure encapsulations. It HELPED...it was wonderful. If I went a day or two without taking it my husband would notice it first and ask 'what's wrong with you' (yep, he's the sensitive type)...Sometimes I'd even FEEL ok so I'd stop taking them (they cost money ya know?) and then one day I'd realize that I was being totally irrational with the kids.

Ok..that's the background...

Here is the update:
Strangely I woke up one day and felt 'odd'...just different, couldn't explain it or put my finger on it...
I didn't take my AF pill...my husband had just left on a business trip for a week so I figured I wouldn't have to deal with his 'what's wrong with you' questions.
And guess what...I feel good...I feel rested after I sleep...I just feel, well, normal.
Is it possible that my system just got caught back up? My adrenals just started functioning correctly?
I was also wondering if my menstrual cycles have something to do with it--I'm still nursing and didn't get cycles back until ds was 15-16mo old...that was 6mo ago--maybe it took cycles 6mo to get back in the swing of things and that kicked the adrenals back into shape?
Any thoughts?
I'm just curious about this biology!


----------



## Autumnlaughing

JacquelineR - this guy is usually pretty good, but I guess I still have to watch carefully... I've had less than stellar appointments with the more senior doctor there, so I'm wondering if it was him that actually did the prescribing.

Pookietooth - I tried cutting out dairy and wheat, and it didn't help. I'm allergic to soy, treenuts and corn (among other things..), so it also reduced my diet enough that I was really miserable (and lost 30 pounds that I didn't have to lose). The soy and corn (and vinegar) allergies really reduce the amount of processed food that I can eat, so I don't eat much processed food - I've been worse about since cutting back on meds for the saliva test seems to have put me almost back to square one in the adrenal department. I've also been slacking on my B vitamins, because I had a bad reaction to the iron in a prenatal and my high-B multi has the same kind of iron in them. I should really just get some B complex.

Sorry that got long-winded - it's all so interconnected!! Thanks for the suggestion - I know it really helps for many people, I'm just not one of them..


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Autumnlaughing* 
JacquelineR - this guy is usually pretty good, but I guess I still have to watch carefully... I've had less than stellar appointments with the more senior doctor there, so I'm wondering if it was him that actually did the prescribing.

Pookietooth - I tried cutting out dairy and wheat, and it didn't help. I'm allergic to soy, treenuts and corn (among other things..), so it also reduced my diet enough that I was really miserable (and lost 30 pounds that I didn't have to lose). The soy and corn (and vinegar) allergies really reduce the amount of processed food that I can eat, so I don't eat much processed food - I've been worse about since cutting back on meds for the saliva test seems to have put me almost back to square one in the adrenal department. I've also been slacking on my B vitamins, because I had a bad reaction to the iron in a prenatal and my high-B multi has the same kind of iron in them. I should really just get some B complex.

Sorry that got long-winded - it's all so interconnected!! Thanks for the suggestion - I know it really helps for many people, I'm just not one of them..

I'm glad your doctor's usually good.
Just for curiosity... Have you tried rice vinegar or some vinegar other than white? Apple cider, for example? Changingseasons and I learned not too long ago that white vinegar is made from three sources: wheat, corn and petroleum... That's right, petroleum. Doesn't that make you confident in what "they" are feeding us?


----------



## Autumnlaughing

And here I was thinking "petroleum.. well, at least I'm not allergic to it!".









Maybe I'll experiment with different kinds sometime when I'm feeling better - I think it's the micro-organisms that I have a problem with, but they're probably a little different, too.. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## ChristieB

OK, I'm seriously thinking that my adrenals are a real problem for me (of course, I shouldn't still be up if that's the case







). Ugghh. My dr. did a blood test last week (haven't heard back yet) doing every thyroid test she could think of.







She also tested my cortisol. But really, she thinks the saliva test will be much more informative. I think that she's soon going to be in over he head, so I'm looking around for someone more experienced with this. She wants to refer to an endocrinologist, but I'm not terribly excited about that idea. Any thoughts?

Anyway, it seems I was just 2 or 3 days late in ordering the saliva test from DiagnosTechs. I got it today. It says to only test on day 19, 20 or 21 of my cycle. Today was day 24! I have to wait almost a month before I can test!!







: I haven't been taking much for my adrenals, but I've been taking adrenal glandular daily, and I drink licorice tea sometimes. I stopped taking those last week when I ordered the test. Do you think I can start taking those again, until closer to the time I will be doing the test? And how long do you all avoid supplements before a test?

My acupuncturist said she has an herbal mix that is helpful, and I was hoping to start that soon. She did a treatment last week for my adrenals and thyroid. She said that one treatment shouldn't change things too much for the test. A couple days after the treatment, I started feeling _a little_ better, and I was looking forward to doing that again. I guess we'll have to wait on that, too. I am soooo bummed!


----------



## MommyHawk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Mommyhawk, I think licorice is ok with bfing an older child, at least I was put on it when I was nursing a 3 year old. Where did you get your supplements, anyway?

I got my sups from my chiropractor - she's the one that ordered and read my ASI test results. My primary doc was too proud to do it since 'he' didn't come up with the idea...

They are *Standard Process, Inc.* Supplements

Cataplex B

Dreninim

Calcium Lactate

Organically Bound Minerals

Licorice High Grade


----------



## ChristieB

My dr. called today, and all the thyroid tests were "normal". Everything was midrange, except the free T3, which was low normal (I don't remember the numbers - I was frying my eggs when she called - but it was just barely above the lowest number in the range given).

So now I have some questions. When I look at Dr. Rind's chart, I really seem to lean toward adrenal, with some thyroid symptoms, too. Hardly any of the "mixed" symptoms. So, should I ask her if we can try Armour and see if it helps, or wait for the saliva test results (almost a month and a half away)? Based on your experiences (or from your learning), is this most likely adrenals causing sluggish thyroid, and the Armour isn't likely to help, or is it possible that it's both?? Also, if I were to start Armour, would that affect the saliva test results?

Thanks so much. I'm just so desperate to feel better!!


----------



## Metasequoia

Hi ChristieB,

My adrenal doc says that the thyroid is always affected in adrenal fatigue, even if it doesn't show up in blood work. I've often wondered if some Armour would give me a boost, but he's never suggested it. It's something I want to ask him next Monday.

I've also heard thyroid patients say that they never improved until they started treating their adrenals.

I think if I were you, I'd wait for the saliva test. You can make some changes now to support your adrenals like getting plenty of sleep, vitamin c, b-vitamins, lots of organ meats from pastured beef...and I know I'm forgetting stuff...

I know it stinks to wait, but I believe it's best to start from the bottom up, so to speak (with the adrenals.)

I know my adrenals are getting tanked right now. I have an almost constant full body tremble & light-headedness.

I know ChristieB knows this, but my Dad is really, really sick & had a heart attack in my arms last Sunday. Apparently I'm the one taking control of the situation & it sucks.

I'm trying really hard to relax, but it's not happening. The kids & I live with my folks & my Dad is the only one who knows about any of the bills, mortgage, etc. He doesn't even have a will & is in pretty severe heart failure. Ugh, too much stress even for someone with normal adrenal function.

....And here it is at almost midnight & I'm not sound asleep. I MUST make myself go to bed at a decent hour! Instead, I stay up trying to find the best cardiology team near us or the many reasons I should argue to get him off the statin drug, etc, etc...


----------



## applecore

Subbing. I think I may need to be here. More later.


----------



## Metasequoia

I'm a real mess. My Dad's a real mess. He's being transferred tomorrow morning & is having a heart cath early in the morning. His BNP (enzyme that indicates the severity of heart failure) has risen out of range.









I'm going to call my PCP first thing in the morning to ask her to call in a couple of xanax, jic. I haven't felt the need for any kind of calming amino acids in a while & suddenly I'm at the point where I need xanax in my bag just to feel safe. If something goes really wrong tomorrow, I don't know what I'll be able to handle & just knowing that I have a couple xanax on me will be a relief in & of itself.

All this healing....and I'm headed right back to the beginning again. I guess I could look at it like 'how could I have handled this 2 years ago??' I couldn't have, so I'm thankful to have come this far.


----------



## quelindo

Oh, Metasequoia, I couldn't read this and not post. I am sending you strength and love as you deal with this crisis.







Healing thoughts for both you and your dad.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

I couldn't read and not post either.
Try to remember to take care of yourself, Metasequoia.







It's so hard when you're busy taking care of others, I know.
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your dad.


----------



## tanyalynn

I'm so sorry for the pain you and your family are suffering. You've helped so many of us here through your sharing of your hard work and what's helping you, you are in my prayers.


----------



## ChristieB

I've been off-line for awhile, and just saw this. I'm so sorry!









Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me in the middle of all that you're going through. I think about you and your dad every day. I'll be holding you both in my prayers.

I know how frustrating it is to work so hard to heal and then to have a major set-back. I think that you're right. Although this isn't what you wanted to do with your health, at least you have enough reserves to deal with this. I hope you can find the support you need.















:


----------



## Jilian

I've lurked in this thread for a long time and wanted to offer you a hug Meta







How is your dad today? How are you doing?


----------



## Pookietooth

Meta. So sorry to hear about your dad. It's hard when a parent is ill. My mom died when I was 30, and I was so stressed about it the whole time she was ill -- I could see it coming but at the same time I didn't want to believe it. Same with my dad when I was 19. I hope your dad pulls out of this ok.


----------



## MommyHawk

what do you do when you feel your heart racing, your face is red, you get that 'jittery' feeling like all you want to do is lie down and relax but you can't, you just have to 'do' something... is it the salt in the morning? is it a lack of salt? too much salt? I woke up this morning totally dizzy and dry mouthed, so I did my 1/4th tsp of salt with my supplements and my heart is still frazzled. any ideas?


----------



## WuWei

Magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium all are related to heart function. We are most often deficient in magnesium, especially if you supplement with calcium alone. Potassium can be displaced by too much sodium.

Try some OJ and Natural Calm. Also, some rescue remedy helps for anxiety.

Pat


----------



## Metasequoia

Thanks guys, for all of the positive thoughts/prayers - I think it's working!

He had his procedure & they inserted a balloon pump that's helping his heart work (taking a load off of it.) We were at the hospital for 10 hours straight (kiddos too! and they were little angels!)

As soon as we saw him afterwards, it was like night & day - he was pink again! And starving! No more yellow-pale color, droopy eyes, exhaustion or shallow breathing!

Now, he does need quadruple bypass surgery, but this hospital ROCKS & I know he's in good hands. Of the 3 main arteries of the heart, one was 100% blocked, the second was 99% blocked & the thrid was 80% blocked - it's a miracle he's still alive! And....he won't be home for a loooong time, which is SUCH a relief for me. My biggest stress has been the times he's had heart attacks in front of me & watching his lips turn blue - I think I've aged 10 years these past few weeks. We just need to get rid of the fluids so that his heart can work more efficiently, as well as his kidneys - then they can do the surgery.

I never did get the Xanax & I was okay. My Mom & I are so exhausted today - yesterday just took everything out of all of us.

I have my Clymer appt on Monday - it'll be interesting to see what my BP does....
I've been super good about taking my gladulars 3 times a day (2 pills, 3x/day) to support my adrenals, but I've been awful about going to bed early.
I've noticed that I *really* start dragging around 11am & have a hard time doing anything until 5 or 6pm - I need to fix this cortisol rhythm imbalance.

***MommyHawk*, sometimes when I wake up, I feel jittery, dizzy & nauseous & I need to eat some animal protein with lots & lots of sea salt sprinkled on top. Beef or chicken works best for me. Once I shove enough of that in my body, I start to feel better within minutes.
It doesn't matter if I've eaten half of a cow the night before, so I don't think that it's that I'm not eating enough protein/fat the night before, I think it has to do with cumulative stress and/or lack of sleep.

You should see how you respond to sea salt - for me it works wonders. If I eat something high in potassium on an empty stomach, I feel worse, so I know it's sodium that my body needs.


----------



## ChristieB

I'm so glad to hear that it went well!! And I'm glad the hospital is a good one and you feel confident in them. That counts for so much! Especially when you need to take care of _yourself_, too (not to mention your kidlets







). I'll continue to keep you in my thoughts and prayers.


----------



## WuWei

The balloon pump sounds serious and scary.

Hope all goes well.

Pat

P.S. have you tried any Bach Flower remedies for stress? Rescue Remedy is magical.


----------



## Mama~Love

WHY, WHY, WHY WILL NO ONE LISTEN TO ME





















: ?!?

I tried yet ANOTHER doctor yesterday, and what a waste of friggin' time! She just wanted to check my vit.D, TSH, and blood sugar. I told her that even if the TSH is in the normal range, I could still be hypo. She looked right at me & asked, "Did YOU go to medical school?"







: . So I got my lab sheet & left, after I listened to her speech about people thinking they know more than doctors, just because they read something on the internet.

Ugh. I think I will have to jump over to the Thyroid thread & introduce myself. I still think my adrenals are worn out too, so I'll probabl post to both threads.

I do have a lead on a naturopath that I will DEFINITELY contact.

I am so sick of being sick!! I want my life back, dammit!!!

Rant over!!


----------



## tanyalynn

I'm so sorry! It was experiences like this (but less dramatic, I couldn't do a good confrontation to save my life back then, and even now I'm not great at it) that led me far down the alternative path. I hope you find someone--if need be, you can order tests yourself online (I think they sorta do a "doctor" that you probably don't even talk to, something like that) and at least figure out what's going on. Especially for adrenal stuff, traditional docs don't seem to get it (I had the same discussion for thyroid, which is more "normal").


----------



## MommyHawk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pooka~Hugs* 
WHY, WHY, WHY WILL NO ONE LISTEN TO ME





















: ?!?

I tried yet ANOTHER doctor yesterday, and what a waste of friggin' time! She just wanted to check my vit.D, TSH, and blood sugar. I told her that even if the TSH is in the normal range, I could still be hypo. She looked right at me & asked, *"Did YOU go to medical school?"*







: .


A doctor _actually_ said this to you?!?! oh, the nerve! I'm so sick of doctors being so damn PROUD that they can't even conceive that someone outside of themselves can think with the brain they were given, can come up with educated questions and answers...and ALL without a medical degree. My doctor won't even look at me without a nasty smirk when I come in (his wife is my kid's Ped) because I asked him to read my ASI test results..."uh, what _doctor_ ordered _this_ test?" ... uh, like, a doctor who doesn't have her head up her own you-know-what so much that she HELPS people instead of helping herself feel all high and mighty...he wanted to put me on _seizure_ medication...all because he doesn't believe in adrenal fatigue and couldn't listen to me...ok, ranting, sorry..that is just wrong that someone would say that to you!!


----------



## Metasequoia

Ugh, I went through something similar with a doc who WAS supposed to be more holistic - but she was still too proud to listen to me. I argued about wanting a saliva test & she insisted on a blood test (for the ASI) - this is the doc I posted about in the very first post. I'm SO glad I skipped outta there & found my ND who immediately ordered the saliva test on his own accord.

Pooka~Hugs, remember to treat the adrenals prior to treating the thyroid or your thyroid will never heal. My ND insists that us adrenal patients always have thyroid problems that usually don't show up. Once the adrenals are functioning properly, everything *should* fall into place, but some people will need additional thyroid support too.

I have my adrenal appt tomorrow - thank goddess!! I think I'm going to schedule a full physical at the sister-facility (Woodlands) just to feel more at ease. All of this stuff with my Dad has me concerned & I know I'd just feel better knowing that I'm staying on top of things.

I'm telling you, this stuff never ends! We spent 4 hours in the ER last night because Ds fell & split his eyebrow open, so he had to have 5 stitches & the ER was *packed* last night.

**I've noticed that I have TOTALLY bounced back waaaay better & faster than I would have a year or two ago. This makes me feel so PROUD that my body has healed even this much. Much more rolls off my back now - I'm telling you, a couple of years ago, I think I'd have been bed-ridden by all of this but I'm able to keep chugging along & feeling pretty okay.

Just need to get past the bypass surgery....

What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger! (but only if you're supporting your adrenals!







)


----------



## Mama~Love

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyHawk* 
A doctor _actually_ said this to you?!?! oh, the nerve! I'm so sick of doctors being so damn PROUD that they can't even conceive that someone outside of themselves can think with the brain they were given, can come up with educated questions and answers...and ALL without a medical degree. My doctor won't even look at me without a nasty smirk when I come in (his wife is my kid's Ped) because I asked him to read my ASI test results..."uh, what _doctor_ ordered _this_ test?" ... uh, like, a doctor who doesn't have her head up her own you-know-what so much that she HELPS people instead of helping herself feel all high and mighty...he wanted to put me on _seizure_ medication...all because he doesn't believe in adrenal fatigue and couldn't listen to me...ok, ranting, sorry..that is just wrong that someone would say that to you!!

Yes, she did. I will NEVER go back there! Ugh, I detest arrogant doctors!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Ugh, I went through something similar with a doc who WAS supposed to be more holistic - but she was still too proud to listen to me. I argued about wanting a saliva test & she insisted on a blood test (for the ASI) - this is the doc I posted about in the very first post. I'm SO glad I skipped outta there & found my ND who immediately ordered the saliva test on his own accord.

Pooka~Hugs, remember to treat the adrenals prior to treating the thyroid or your thyroid will never heal. My ND insists that us adrenal patients always have thyroid problems that usually don't show up. Once the adrenals are functioning properly, everything *should* fall into place, but some people will need additional thyroid support too.

I have my adrenal appt tomorrow - thank goddess!! I think I'm going to schedule a full physical at the sister-facility (Woodlands) just to feel more at ease. All of this stuff with my Dad has me concerned & I know I'd just feel better knowing that I'm staying on top of things.

I'm telling you, this stuff never ends! We spent 4 hours in the ER last night because Ds fell & split his eyebrow open, so he had to have 5 stitches & the ER was *packed* last night.

**I've noticed that I have TOTALLY bounced back waaaay better & faster than I would have a year or two ago. This makes me feel so PROUD that my body has healed even this much. Much more rolls off my back now - I'm telling you, a couple of years ago, I think I'd have been bed-ridden by all of this but I'm able to keep chugging along & feeling pretty okay.

Just need to get past the bypass surgery....

What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger! (but only if you're supporting your adrenals!







)










Thank you! I took notes off of the STTM site, and it said to treat the adrenals first. I'm sure if I got on HC, I'd feel better. I'm calling the naturopath tomorrow to see how soon I could get in. *Fingers crossed* about this!

Good luck tomorrow Metasequoia!!


----------



## quelindo

I'm going to see a nurse practitioner on Wednesday (the naturopath was booked until January) at a clinic that prescribes bio-identical hormones. I am VERY excited about this -- I hope she's able to help me and doesn't tell me there's no such thing as adrenal fatigue, like my family practitioner did.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pooka~Hugs* 
Thank you! I took notes off of the STTM site, and it said to treat the adrenals first. I'm sure if I got on HC, I'd feel better. I'm calling the naturopath tomorrow to see how soon I could get in. *Fingers crossed* about this!

Good luck tomorrow Metasequoia!!

You don't really want HC, do you? That's hard to get off of. Try to get glandulars, licorice (if your bp is low), vit c, magnesium, eat a supportive diet, B vits, plenty of rest & maybe pregnenolone if warranted.

It may take longer but it's treating the root of the problem & allowing your body to heal itself which is the best outcome!


----------



## Mama~Love

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
You don't really want HC, do you? That's hard to get off of. Try to get glandulars, licorice (if your bp is low), vit c, magnesium, eat a supportive diet, B vits, plenty of rest & maybe pregnenolone if warranted.

It may take longer but it's treating the root of the problem & allowing your body to heal itself which is the best outcome!

I had my BP taken on Friday at my appt., and it was 114/60. So that's kinda low for me; usually it's in the upper 120's or low130's/60-70.

I will look into the glandulars, but thought HC was the recommended treatment for AF. Off to do yet more research.

Thanks Metasequoia!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pooka~Hugs* 
I had my BP taken on Friday at my appt., and it was 114/60. So that's kinda low for me; usually it's in the upper 120's or low130's/60-70.

I will look into the glandulars, but thought HC was the recommended treatment for AF. Off to do yet more research.

Thanks Metasequoia!

That might be a bit high for licorice since you don't want to make it "too high," but if you can find a good ND or adrenal specialist, definitely ask.

I know we're discussed HC in this thread...but it is long. It basically takes over what your body should be doing & then your body has a hard time of doing its own job. If you can support your body (adrenals) rather than slapping a bandaid on it, it will become strong enough to handle what it was made to handle (stress.)


----------



## bigeyes

There are a couple different schools of thought on that. In my adrenals group some people have used HC and then weaned off it after their adrenals have healed. Others have used natural supplements instead. Still others, like me, will probably be on HC for life.

If your adrenals have a chance to bounce back without using HC, you should probably try something else first.


----------



## transformed

What is the first step to treating AF? I am very financially challenged w/ no insurance right now.

I am pretty much not functioning at all right now.


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## Metasequoia

Rest, go to sleep early & sleep as late as possible - nap if you can. Eat well - organ meats aren't usually pricey (if you can stomach them.) Chicken livers aren't as strong as beef liver & I'd opt for grass-fed over conventional.

Glandulars aren't crazy expensive & IMO are worth every cent. I've been super great about taking 2 glandulars/3 times a day these last few weeks & I'm doing pretty well considering what I've been through.

Other than that, quit the caffeine (for real), take vitamin c & a B-complex if the glandular doesn't have it & try to relax.


----------



## transformed

what is a glandular?


----------



## nichole

I wonder if it is possible to feel better just a few weeks after getting your amalgams out? I can't tell you how great I have been feeling since I got them out. I have been taking vita C, milk thistle, b complex, Rainbow light multi, magnesium, cod liver oil, and probiotics. I think that is all whew.

I still cannot eat wheat or dairy, but my yeast problems and fatigue seemed to have improved. I am getting ready to go read in bed. I hope to go to bed early most nights. Don't wanna overdo it!


----------



## MommyHawk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger! (but only if you're supporting your adrenals!







)










this would be perfect in all of our signatures!


----------



## MommyHawk

I just realized that in all the supplements that I am prescribed to take, the only B vitamin is B6, and it's in two different supplements...Is there a reason for this? I would think that I would be better off with more differing B's?

Also, I thought Potassium was bad for adrenals...am I wrong? If not, where do I get the special K? I only know of bananas. And would it be good to do the K for when I feel like my heart is in my throat? Jittery? I've felt like this for the past few days. I am getting scared that I'm hurting my heart with all this jittery one day, fine the next.

And thirdly, anyone know how to get the HPA working better? (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal). It says in my ASI workup that "marginal HPA performance is suggestive with a depressed morning cortisol, <13nM"...my lowest cortisol is in the morning and I take Licorice to help boost it...should I try to take the Licorice earlier than 7/8am, when I'm _supposed_ to wake up to help boost this? I just can't think straight for a majority of the day.

Oh, gosh, one more. I'm wondering if the Licorice is making me jittery, although I still have low BP after taking it...does anyone else take *Rehmannia*? Doc said that I should take this if I have high BP, therefore can't take Licorice.

Ok, thanks to anyone who read all that


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
I wonder if it is possible to feel better just a few weeks after getting your amalgams out? I can't tell you how great I have been feeling since I got them out. I have been taking vita C, milk thistle, b complex, Rainbow light multi, magnesium, cod liver oil, and probiotics. I think that is all whew.

I still cannot eat wheat or dairy, but my yeast problems and fatigue seemed to have improved. I am getting ready to go read in bed. I hope to go to bed early most nights. Don't wanna overdo it!

I felt better pretty soon after getting mine out in April, and then I cycled to worse for a while (which is apparently pretty typical as the body starts dumping more mercury) and now I'm on the up-swing for real. Continue really good detox support and don't overdo things! I was too ambitious early on and it made things harder for me. And congrats on the amalgams coming out!


----------



## JTA Mom

Hi!

I've just been diagnosed for adrenal fatigue by a chiro. However, I can't afford to get treated by him, since money is really tight.

Does anyone have any links to a site that has treatment plans using natural, easily accessible (pref. low cost too, lol) remedies? My mood is all over the place & I hate how snappy I've become.The last few years have been SUPER stressful, and I just feel tired & impatient. I want to feel better and have the energy to start exercising. As it is, all I want to do is sleep.







It feels like no matter what I do, I can't get enough sleep. Part of it is ds waking up often, and another part is me.

Are there any dietary changes I can do to fix this? If possible, I want to use as few supplements as possible--a way of life is more what I'm looking for, lol. Anyone know how long (if) it takes to heal adrenals?

Ami


----------



## transformed

yeah, I am working on getting advice on the budget thing also. SOmeone suggested "The Mood Cure" book


----------



## nichole

If you can find something you enjoy doing to relax, that will help. Lots of sleep and animal protein. Sunshine.


----------



## ~Twighlight~

hey all, I've been working with this for quite awhile. I am a mixed type (adrenal and thyroid) and dh is being tested right now for Addison's which we are pretty certain he has.

The protocol for him is calcium in the am, magnesium in the pm, broad spectrum B vitamins (designs for health B supreme) twice a day and folic acid/B-12 liquid from seroyal. He also does glandulars 3 times a day. He takes vitamin A and D, eats animal protein with every meal and takes licorice. Vitamin C is a biggie for him. He also takes iodine. We don't do refined flours or sugars in the house and coffee is a definite no-no as well.

I do everything he does but take fewer glandulars and more iodine.

Mommyhawk-B-6 (usually P5P) is essential for adrenal function, but yes. From what I know you need the whole spectrum.


----------



## Theloose

My budget advice:

De-stress, including life stress and body stress. No caffeine, sugar, or gluten for sure, and depending on how far you want to go with diet, figure out as many food sensitivities as you can and avoid those foods. Relax and laugh whenever you think about it.

Add nutrition. Vitamins (pantothenic acid, vitamin C, B complex, cal/mag). Whole foods. Eat what your body wants. For me (and it sounds like most here), that's lots of meat and fats, and less starch and carbs.

Sleep. Eat honey before bed to stack the odds in favor of a good night's sleep. Go to bed as early as you can, and keep it as dark as you can to maximize melatonin production and adrenal healing time.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyHawk* 
I just realized that in all the supplements that I am prescribed to take, the only B vitamin is B6, and it's in two different supplements...Is there a reason for this? I would think that I would be better off with more differing B's?

Also, I thought Potassium was bad for adrenals...am I wrong? If not, where do I get the special K? I only know of bananas. And would it be good to do the K for when I feel like my heart is in my throat? Jittery? I've felt like this for the past few days. I am getting scared that I'm hurting my heart with all this jittery one day, fine the next.

And thirdly, anyone know how to get the HPA working better? (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal). It says in my ASI workup that "marginal HPA performance is suggestive with a depressed morning cortisol, <13nM"...my lowest cortisol is in the morning and I take Licorice to help boost it...should I try to take the Licorice earlier than 7/8am, when I'm _supposed_ to wake up to help boost this? I just can't think straight for a majority of the day.

Oh, gosh, one more. I'm wondering if the Licorice is making me jittery, although I still have low BP after taking it...does anyone else take *Rehmannia*? Doc said that I should take this if I have high BP, therefore can't take Licorice.

Ok, thanks to anyone who read all that









If your BP is low, you need more salt (but only Celtic sea salt) - as much as you can get into your body. If your BP isn't high, there's no reason why you can't take licorice (Dr. Baschetti's is highly recommended.)

Potassium is sodium's antagonist - so if you're bp is low, adding potassium can make you feel worse. My morning cortisol has been 10 for 2 years now. I think balancing your cortisol rhythm throughout the day may balance out the morning level - so basic adrenal support should help to fix that situation.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
Hi!

I've just been diagnosed for adrenal fatigue by a chiro. However, I can't afford to get treated by him, since money is really tight.

Does anyone have any links to a site that has treatment plans using natural, easily accessible (pref. low cost too, lol) remedies? My mood is all over the place & I hate how snappy I've become.The last few years have been SUPER stressful, and I just feel tired & impatient. I want to feel better and have the energy to start exercising. As it is, all I want to do is sleep.







It feels like no matter what I do, I can't get enough sleep. Part of it is ds waking up often, and another part is me.

Are there any dietary changes I can do to fix this? If possible, I want to use as few supplements as possible--a way of life is more what I'm looking for, lol. Anyone know how long (if) it takes to heal adrenals?

Ami

Years - at least 3 years usually - but it could be slower for us mommies who have so much unrelenting responsibility. I started treatment in March '07 & have come a long way, slowly but surely.

Cut out caffeine, bad foods like refined flours, sugars - grains if you need to. Add a lot of organ meats from pastured animals - super for your adrenals.

The Traditional Foods forum here on MDC focuses on the same way of eating that my adrenal doc recommends. The easiest way to cut to the chase is to go label-free. If you do dairy, only raw & lots & lots of animal protein.


----------



## Metasequoia

Oy, I knew my adrenals took a beating lately & my bp certainly showed it.

110 laying down, *dropped* 20 points upon standing & rose 35 points after 15 seconds. 110-90-125

My ND said I've been doing everything right to support my adrenals - taking extra Mil Adregen (glandulars for the newbies) & eating extra well. He wants me to increase my intake of Celtic sea salt even more.

He was SO supportive of what's been going on with my Dad - wrote down two books I need to read - one on diabetes & the other on heart disease - written by a cardiologist - but both focused on the body as a whole & getting of conventional meds. He also said he'd call an excellent doc that he & I both know to ask if he can refer us to a good doc closer to our home. I think I'm going to make my Dad an appt with this doc at Clymer's sister facility because the wait is until March as of today - if we find someone as good in the meantime, we'll just go there.

I'm so glad I found my doctor when I did. I don't know how I would have made it through all of this without the care I've had over the past almost 2 years.


----------



## Mama~Love

Glad you had a goood appt., Metasequoia! Hope you can get the help you need for your dad as well







.


----------



## Diane~KJ

OK, I've been lurking for a while. I'm now subbing this thread so I can try and catch up to speed with everyone.

I've been Hashi's for about 12 years diagnosed. Most of those years were spent on synthetic thyroid meds and a low dose at that. Obviously I never really got any relief and now I'm realizing my adrenal's are probably shot.

I have low blood pressure, and it definately drops after standing up. Also I've done the pupil test in the dark and they flicker like crazy and wont stay dialated.

I'm also now rethinking my vegetarian/vegan lifestyle as I just don't feel healthy on it it all. I'm about 30 lbs overweight and weak all the time. The animal thing is hard for me as I do it for moral reasons. I'm not sure what to do about it.

The only positive thing is that I have switched to armour thyroid meds and have been able to increase it, against my GP's many objections. I still have a lot of weakness and exhaustion, but my joint aches have diminished a great deal. I'm up to 2 grains (120mg) which is double my levoxyl dosage for the past 12 years. Hopefully my doctor will let me increase it more, but I know it wont be an easy argument to win.

I will be finding some good supplements soon and working on meditation for relaxation. I've got a long road ahead, but I'm thankful for this thread and all the good advice I've been reading.

Any words of wisdom is greatly appreciated, I think I need a Adrenal Fatigue Mentor!








-Di


----------



## harrietsmama

Hi there! New to the thread, a little overwhelmed, can someone catch me up about Addison's? My dp got diagnosed today and they want to do 2 drugs, one is prednisone, I can't remember the other. He will most likely just do that but I'd like to be armed with pros, cons and alternatives if there are any. He has the fatigue, 6x high normal ACTH low cortisol and testosterone w/ genital shrinkage and his face is very dark as well. Thanks


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Diane~KJ* 
OK, I've been lurking for a while. I'm now subbing this thread so I can try and catch up to speed with everyone.

Welcome & good for you for speaking up!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *harrietsmama* 
Hi there! New to the thread, a little overwhelmed, can someone catch me up about Addison's? My dp got diagnosed today and they want to do 2 drugs, one is prednisone, I can't remember the other. He will most likely just do that but I'd like to be armed with pros, cons and alternatives if there are any. He has the fatigue, 6x high normal ACTH low cortisol and testosterone w/ genital shrinkage and his face is very dark as well. Thanks









Boy Mama, that's tough.







To be honest, I don't know how serious that is. I really, really think you should call Dr. Neville at Clymer & just tell him what the test results say. It's going to cost money, but I think his opinion is so valuable. I'm not a fan of prednisone, but like I said, I don't know the severity of your DH's condition, but Dr. Neville would.


----------



## harrietsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Diane~KJ* 

I'm also now rethinking my vegetarian/vegan lifestyle as I just don't feel healthy on it it all. I'm about 30 lbs overweight and weak all the time. The animal thing is hard for me as I do it for moral reasons. I'm not sure what to do about it.


Hi! reading the thread backwards.
On the vegan morals, one thing I saw someone at MDC post was that if you buy meat from a place you check out and see how they choose to humanely do the deed, then think about how most animals would otherwise die old, alone, sick, alone or in terror by a predator it can be helpful. She was a moral vegan who also decided to eat meat for health reasons. It made sense to me. I have been vegan before, growing up. I needed to add more protein for health reasons myself but I was a teen so it was done for me. As an adult I started going straight to farms to get mine so I could choose how and by whom my animal was turned into meat. I hope that helps a little.


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## Metasequoia

Yep - I have a BIG problem eating meat from factory farms - it makes me sick to think about it. And I'm a hardcore carnivore, lol.

We get our meat & dairy from local farmers & we visit their farms often. I've seen a steer get slaughtered & it was so NOT what I thought - he was in a ring, they put a bucket of grain at the other end & a profesional fired from the other end of the ring - it was *instant* & the steer had no idea what was coming.
Not all farmers slaughter like that, but there are other humane ways.

The dairy cows that provide our raw dairy are *always* out on the pasture & are treated very well.


----------



## lucky_mia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *harrietsmama* 
Hi there! New to the thread, a little overwhelmed, can someone catch me up about Addison's? My dp got diagnosed today and they want to do 2 drugs, one is prednisone, I can't remember the other. He will most likely just do that but I'd like to be armed with pros, cons and alternatives if there are any. He has the fatigue, 6x high normal ACTH low cortisol and testosterone w/ genital shrinkage and his face is very dark as well. Thanks









I was diagnosed with Addison's this summer. I know it might be unpopular to say here but since he has Addison's which is Adrenal Insufficiency and not Adrenal Fatigue then he needs to take the prenidsone and I'm guessing the other one is Florinef. Basically, without the proper medication, he can die. He should also carry an emergency injection kit and get a medical alert bracelet as well as find a good endo (not easy to do). I found a great support group and that helped a lot. Patients tend to know more about this than doctors since Addison's is so rare.


----------



## harrietsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Thanks guys, for all of the positive thoughts/prayers - I think it's working!










!!! I went through this with my grandparents who raised me, it is very hard. I'm so glad for you that he is improving!


----------



## harrietsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
I was diagnosed with Addison's this summer. I know it might be unpopular to say here but since he has Addison's which is Adrenal Insufficiency and not Adrenal Fatigue then he needs to take the prenidsone and I'm guessing the other one is Florinef. Basically, without the proper medication, he can die. He should also carry an emergency injection kit and get a medical alert bracelet as well as find a good endo (not easy to do). I found a great support group and that helped a lot. Patients tend to know more about this than doctors since Addison's is so rare.

Thanks for the info! We do have an appt with an endo on the 10th to confirm etc. What's in the injection kit? He also has crohn's and has had 3 intestinal resections. He's already lived much longer and done much better than expected. I only came into the picture almost 4 years ago. I talked him into taking primal defense 2 years ago and it has helped some. He has a lot of trouble swallowing and a huge sugar craving. I have had no success getting him off the fudge bar/lucky charms diet that evolved over the last year. It used to be shrimp and anchovy stuffed olives and oysters. Yuck, but a little better. before that it was gas station fried chicken







which I cooked him out of.

I have my own issues, long story, but let's just say I just started cooking again after awhile.


----------



## lucky_mia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *harrietsmama* 
Thanks for the info! We do have an appt with an endo on the 10th to confirm etc. What's in the injection kit?

Once the endo confirms, they should give him a prescription for something like solu-cortef which an emergency steroid that he will have to inject in the case of an adrenal crisis brought on my a major physical stress such as a car accident.


----------



## harrietsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
Once the endo confirms, they should give him a prescription for something like solu-cortef which an emergency steroid that he will have to inject in the case of an adrenal crisis brought on my a major physical stress such as a car accident.

Ugh! He's just going to love that. He hates needles. Thanks for the info though!


----------



## transformed

although I have no idea what most of the stuff is being talked about in here, I am totally enjoying this conversation.


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## MyLittleWonders

I'm reading and subbing. I highly suspect dh and I both have AF. And based on everything I've read, it sounds like my boys might even have issues (is it possible for kids to have AF?). I'm going to call my mom's doctor, who is quite progressive, to see if our insurance would at least help pay for testing. Otherwise, I'm going to go through our ND, which is out of pocket. For now, I'm being militant about our cod liver oil, magnesium (both of which everyone in the house likes to take), I'm putting acerola powder in our smoothies along with bee pollen, royal jelly, and propolis, and I think I'm going to take a vitamin D supplement.

I am exhausted *all the time*, do not sleep overly well, have put my body through an awful lot in the last 8 years - 3 pregnancies, plus non-stop nursing for the last 5 years (ds#1 weaned before I got pregnant with ds#2). I meet pretty much every "marker" for AF. I've always had low blood pressure (when I'm exercising, it's about 90/50; right now it's probably about 115/70 or so). We all have food allergies (gluten as well as artificial additivies, and I suspect dairy, but I'm just not up for removing yet another major food group from our diets right now). And like someone else said a bit back, I am sick and tired of feeling so yucky.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
And based on everything I've read, it sounds like my boys might even have issues (is it possible for kids to have AF?).

Dd1 most definitely does. WHen I asked my ND if it was possible, he said that his Dd (same age as mine) also has AF, he even tested her.

I asked about supplements (glandulars) & at first he just said stick with the WAP diet (which we do) & make sure she gets lots of rest. They definitely get long stretches of rest, but go to bed later & sleep in pretty late. She just flies off the handle way too easily, gets anxious about stuff like holidays - even gets headaches before a big event - same as me when I was a kid.

I recently asked about glandulars again & he said it would be okay if I gave them to her but to also try to incorproate more organ meats into our diet. We eat loads of bone broths, animal protein, wild salmon & raw dairy plus we take CLO & eat crispy nuts for more minerals.

I've tried working on her as far as relaxation techniques but I probably don't set the best example.

It's said to be inherited - if your adrenals aren't working efficiently during pregnancy, the baby will be born with suboptimal adrenal function.

Hey, at least we know about this stuff now, right? I think I'm going to get her on the glandulars now to try to correct this before the teenage years begin.

Also, growing girls need lots of good fats for proper hormone development & growing boys boys needs lots of good animal protein, especially red meat for proper muscle development. (Both sexes need adequate amounts of both, but those are the specifics.)


----------



## bigeyes

I don't know for sure if it's because my pituitary is shot and that is why my adrenals didn't recover with supplements, but when I took glandulars, I had worse adrenaline rushes.

Unfortunately for me, the only thing that seemed to help calm my adrenaline rushes was HC. It's so weird the way it's different for everyone.


----------



## applecore

Hey, folks. I'm new to this thread. I've recently realized that I'm suffering from adrenal fatigue, after thinking it was my thyroid. Well, I got my thyroid tested, and things were well within normal levels. I read Adrenal Fatigue, the 21st Century Stress Syndrome, and scored as severely adrenally fatigued on the quiz. I have ordered cod liver oil and butter oil from Dr. Ron's, stopped drinking coffee, am trying to cut out most of my sugar intake, and am TRYING to get more sleep.

I found some very interesting articles and discussions about the use of nettle seed for adrenal fatigue. It sounds very promising! I think it's too late in the season to harvest the seeds, but I'm going to order some from a reputable herb store and give it a try. Just thought some people here would be interested in checking it out.









http://bearmedicineherbals.com/?p=62
http://herbwifery.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=194
http://www.henriettesherbal.com/blog/nettle-seed.html


----------



## nataliachick7

hi guys, can someone tell me what glandular is?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nataliachick7* 
hi guys, can someone tell me what glandular is?

It's a combination of dessicated glands, like adrenal, liver, etc.

I take *Mil Adregen* which contains: raw adrenal concentrate, raw spleen concentrate, raw thymus concentrate, citrus bioflavinoids, vit c, B6, pantotheic acid & zinc.

The first glandular I tried was Adreno-Plus which has pretty much the same ingredients plus licorice but it kept me buzzing at night & I couldn't sleep.

I've had no sleeping trouble with Mil Adregen & I've been taking 6 a day - 2 with breakfast, 2 with lunch & 2 with dinner.

It's *really* important that your doctor knows where the glandulars are sourced. Mine's a WAPF member & Price-Pottenger member & made sure the stuff he sells comes from New Zealand. I personally don't know what the risks, if any, of contracting mad cow would be, but my doc was the one to inform me as to where the glandulars came from.


----------



## Autumnlaughing

I wandered away for a minute, but now I'm back trying to catch up!

Metasequoia - I'm sorry to hear about all of your stress! I hope it all works out for the better, and soon!

Someone mentioned doing the saliva test on CD 18-20 ish? I hadn't heard that before I did mine. Looks like I did it on CD 33 - but I didn't ovulate for a few more days. So maybe too early and maybe too late! I also don't have the results back yet







I called my doctor's office for them, but the nurse didn't understand them, so I get to wait for my appointment in 2 weeks.

Also, my housemate had some "Adrenal Stress End" that drove her crazy, so she gave it to me - most of it looks good (C, B6, Pantothenic acid, licorice + adrenal cortex extract) but it also has Adrenal polypeptide fractions, betaine and L-Tyrosine in it. Are these actually good? I don't want to do any damage! I'll bring them to the dr's appt, but he didn't know that I'd need to time the licorice for it to work, so I like to get a second opinion..

And.. I've been wondering if this isn't part of my "I'm OK when everything is not OK" problem? I deal BETTER with life when I'm stressed out (then I collapse, of course). For example, yesterday my housemate announced that she'll be moving out in a month. Finding a replacement will be difficult for various reasons. Today, I think my usual Licorice in the AM was TOO MUCH! I was SO jittery and full of ZOOOM at work! For years I've been fighting my tendency to create drama/stress - does that fit this pattern or is it the opposite?

I do startle easily (I'm hysterical to watch at movies..), and when I do, I can feel a change in the pressure in my feet about a heartbeat later. I always thought that was normal, but now I'm wondering?

I've always wondered how other people manage the (to me) insurmountable task of cooking, keeping a house clean + getting any sleep at all, but if I didn't feel like crap all the time.. maybe I could do it, too? Tell me your success stories!

Thanks for letting me jump in with a million questions!


----------



## Metasequoia

Hi Autumn, I don't think the licorice would cause extra energy - at least, I've never heard of that. It's taken to balance the sodium/potassium in your body.
It would be more likely that it was the B vitamins or the glandulars, but it's usually the Bs.

What I read the most is that us adrenal fatigue people avoid stressful situations at all costs. I see what you're saying & it does sort of make sense... I think I try to avoid stuff though, but maybe because I've learned that *after* the stress, I feel horrible for days.

The cleaning thing is hard. Every once in a while I get a burst of energy & I clean like crazy, but not often. Unfortunately, it's usually after I should be in bed.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Autumnlaughing* 
Also, my housemate had some "Adrenal Stress End" that drove her crazy, so she gave it to me - most of it looks good (C, B6, Pantothenic acid, licorice + adrenal cortex extract) but it also has Adrenal polypeptide fractions, betaine and L-Tyrosine in it. Are these actually good? I don't want to do any damage! I'll bring them to the dr's appt, but he didn't know that I'd need to time the licorice for it to work, so I like to get a second opinion..

And.. I've been wondering if this isn't part of my "I'm OK when everything is not OK" problem? I deal BETTER with life when I'm stressed out (then I collapse, of course). For example, yesterday my housemate announced that she'll be moving out in a month. Finding a replacement will be difficult for various reasons. Today, I think my usual Licorice in the AM was TOO MUCH! I was SO jittery and full of ZOOOM at work! For years I've been fighting my tendency to create drama/stress - does that fit this pattern or is it the opposite?

I used to have to create stress in order for me to get anything done. I was a procrastinator extraordinaire, even refusing to write essays in college until the morning they were due. Putting what I now know together, I think I was in resistance stage for most of my life and I needed the extra stress/adrenaline to have enough energy to get things done.

And licorice prevents breakdown of cortisol. So if you are in the resistance stage, then your cortisol is already too high, and licorice is a BAD thing. If you haven't already, I'd look for ways to reduce chronic stress (like eliminating gluten) and improve sleep (honey/sleeping in the dark).


----------



## harrietsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Autumnlaughing* 
And.. I've been wondering if this isn't part of my "I'm OK when everything is not OK" problem? I deal BETTER with life when I'm stressed out (then I collapse, of course). For example, yesterday my housemate announced that she'll be moving out in a month. Finding a replacement will be difficult for various reasons. Today, I think my usual Licorice in the AM was TOO MUCH! I was SO jittery and full of ZOOOM at work! For years I've been fighting my tendency to create drama/stress - does that fit this pattern or is it the opposite?

I have spent my life surrounded by chaos. It does seem that just when things get 'manageable' I have to go join the board of some organization, start a project at home, and yada yada. I chose a very ill partner, and people in my life who know me screamed 'PROJECT!' but I actually love him!!! Just b/c we hooked up 17 years later and he's sick, i still would have picked him if he was healthy! We lost our virginity together


----------



## Metasequoia

whoMe's right, if your cortisol is high, then yes, licorice might cause more energy/adrenaline. I wouldn't use licorice before taking an ASI saliva test. Glandulars are okay before testing because they'd offer support in any stage. Plus, you should know where your BP is before using licorice since it will increase your BP.


----------



## transformed

Ok so basically what I am hearing here is that you take a saliva test to see whats going on with your adrenals?

And I was reading this article from the beginning of the thread and it is wonderful.... but jeez....I am probably on the severe end and 24 months to fix my adrenals seems like a really really long time. I can hardly go without sugar for 4 hours.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Ok so basically what I am hearing here is that you take a saliva test to see whats going on with your adrenals?

And I was reading this article from the beginning of the thread and it is wonderful.... but jeez....I am probably on the severe end and 24 months to fix my adrenals seems like a really really long time. I can hardly go without sugar for 4 hours. 









Yep, best thing to do is to take the Diagnos-Techs ASI to figure out where to start. I was on the really, really low end of AF so my ND also put me on pregnenolone.

And yea, 24 months minimal. I started treating in March of '07 & still have A LOT of healing to do. I've also had a lot of stress to deal with, so I expect my healing to be slower. But my ND said 2-3 years, depending on how much rest you can get & how much you can reduce your stress.


----------



## transformed

are you doing it alone? or with some kind of HCP?

I am going to be completley on my own.


----------



## Diane~KJ

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
What I read the most is that us adrenal fatigue people avoid stressful situations at all costs. I see what you're saying & it does sort of make sense... I think I try to avoid stuff though, but maybe because I've learned that *after* the stress, I feel horrible for days.

The cleaning thing is hard. Every once in a while I get a burst of energy & I clean like crazy, but not often. Unfortunately, it's usually after I should be in bed.









I can totally relate to this, it's exactly what I do. It's weird that I never really thought about it before now or really realized it, but I do avoid an awful lot in life.

Cleaning the house comes in mad bursts for me too. I've learned to just go with it because otherwise I'd be living in a pig stye constantly.

I appreciate the thoughts on animal slaughter as well, and it did help me to see it in that light and I will be looking for reputable sources in the future. My diet is completely out of whack and I really need to get that under control but it seems so overwhelming to be honest. Caffeine and sugar are pretty big in my life and grains too since I've been veg/vegan.

You know when I think back, the only time while watching what I eat that I ever felt good was when I was doing the Atkins diet years ago. Going hard core like that really helped me kick the sugar and bad carbs, and once I was off them I felt really good. So it makes sense that I need to fix my diet big time, especially the sugar thing.

I will be going back and reading old threads to try and catch up more properly. Thanks for all the advice so far, it's wonderful.
-Di


----------



## Theloose

I'm taking an anatomy and physiology class right now, and learning all kinds of cool stuff. Today I read:

Aldosterone is not only responsible for retaining sodium and excreting potassium, it's the primary way our bodies get rid of H+ ions (acid). In other words, if your aldosterone is low (crave salt? low blood pressure? adrenal fatigue?) your blood is likely too acidic. And your urine too alkaline. What are symptoms of acidosis? Fatigue and slowness. And alkalinosis (too alkaline)? Lots of energy. What are other ways of excreting H+? Exhaling.

IOW, if your cortisol isn't so low that exercise is a BAAAD idea, then exercising can give you energy back! This gives me another major piece of the puzzle for my situation, cause it's TOTALLY true for me









And on a side note, you know how B vitamins turn your pee neon yellow? (Everyone's taking their B vitamins, right?) Riboflavin (B2) is responsible for that color, and as the urine is more acidic, the brightness fades. So there you go, no need to buy pH strips!

I'm such a nerd...


----------



## tanyalynn

Cool post! Nerdiness is a good thing.

Question (for whoever)--how do you know if your cortisol is too low for exercise to be good? I'm asking for my husband (I don't have any desire to exercise, for me I think I need to wait a bit).

His saliva test results didn't completely fit any of the 7 stages, but the report seemed to put him closest to stage 5 (but his nighttime cortisol is low, too, not high).


----------



## Theloose

My test showed high morning cortisol, normal noon, low afternoon/evening. I figure I'm safe exercising because it feels GOOD and I get a high afterwards, not a crash.

Now if only I could *do* it more!


----------



## Autumnlaughing

Metasequoia - I'm conflict avoidant because I know I break down in the middle (shaking, crying, no matter how "calm" I feel), but low-level long-term stress (like Harriet'smama said - moderate life changes, new art/dance projects, procrastinated papers etc.) get me moving...

Whome - I think gluten is only stressful for some. OTOH, It may just be that the alternative is worse for my corn-allergic attempts to eat!

And I think we all appreciate your nerdiness! I've been weirded out because regular yoga-style exercise has a positive effect for me, but I often find myself with worse symptoms in class, ESPECIALLY if I accidentally go to a class that's too hard. And I had noticed the pee thing, but I thought I just absorbed more of the B2 when I was more stressed... good to know!

Diane~KJ - I've actually warned housemates that every once in awhile I go through a mad cleaning burst, as if I'm not going to clean for 3 months.. because I won't







DH calls it my OCD, but I just *like* living in a clean house, it's just... hard....
My doctor put me on the candida diet for 7 months, which was HELL, and I think it only helped because it did get me to stop spiralling up the amount of sugar I eat, and it stopped my bad habit of quesidilllas for dinner! I had to think ahead, so I always had a quick lunch in the freezer (heavy on meat + veggies) that I could grab on my way out the door.

Honestly, that chest freezer is my best friend - I make extra + freeze the rest so I have "real" food when I need it!


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
My test showed high morning cortisol, normal noon, low afternoon/evening. I figure I'm safe exercising because it feels GOOD and I get a high afterwards, not a crash.

Now if only I could *do* it more!

I was afraid that was going to be the answer (see how it feels, which does seem like a very good answer), cause my husband just mostly feels the same (not good), nothing better, nothing worse.

One more question--anyone have an electrolyte-type drink? It occurred to me that it could be helpful for my husband, but I don't know how to balance the sodium and his not low BP (I'd call it variable, sometimes maybe high, but not low like mine). Thoughts? tia.


----------



## Theloose

I don't know about balancing blood pressure, but this could be a good place to start:
http://www.psha-inc.com/guai-support/sf/TasteTests.htm


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I don't know about balancing blood pressure, but this could be a good place to start:
http://www.psha-inc.com/guai-support/sf/TasteTests.htm

Okay, that looks cool. I will start (even more) experimenting on my husband and see what happens. Thank you!


----------



## quietserena

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Okay, that looks cool. I will start (even more) experimenting on my husband and see what happens. Thank you!

I can't even wrap my mind about the ethical implications of experimenting on one's spouse.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *quietserena* 
I can't even wrap my mind about the ethical implications of experimenting on one's spouse.

















He thinks everything I ask him to try is part of some weird experiment; luckily he's trusting and I love him.







But, and this is sad and frustrating, his adrenals are shot to a large extent because of my health problems, and figuring out it _was_ his adrenals took a long time, and he's not feeling a bit better yet (and he doesn't even believe he will, not really). So now that I'm on the way to feeling better, I'm getting into higher gear trying to tweak things for him to see if I can help him make some progress.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I'm taking an anatomy and physiology class right now, and learning all kinds of cool stuff. Today I read:

Aldosterone is not only responsible for retaining sodium and excreting potassium, it's the primary way our bodies get rid of H+ ions (acid). In other words, if your aldosterone is low (crave salt? low blood pressure? adrenal fatigue?) your blood is likely too acidic. And your urine too alkaline. What are symptoms of acidosis? Fatigue and slowness. And alkalinosis (too alkaline)? Lots of energy. What are other ways of excreting H+? Exhaling.

IOW, if your cortisol isn't so low that exercise is a BAAAD idea, then exercising can give you energy back! This gives me another major piece of the puzzle for my situation, cause it's TOTALLY true for me









And on a side note, you know how B vitamins turn your pee neon yellow? (Everyone's taking their B vitamins, right?) Riboflavin (B2) is responsible for that color, and as the urine is more acidic, the brightness fades. So there you go, no need to buy pH strips!

I'm such a nerd...

Hmmmm...pH strips, cool. I haven't even ventured into the pH idea - saw a book at the library for a quarter a couple of days ago & didn't get it because I thought my brain would explode if I added anything more.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Cool post! Nerdiness is a good thing.

Question (for whoever)--how do you know if your cortisol is too low for exercise to be good? I'm asking for my husband (I don't have any desire to exercise, for me I think I need to wait a bit).

His saliva test results didn't completely fit any of the 7 stages, but the report seemed to put him closest to stage 5 (but his nighttime cortisol is low, too, not high).


My ND has told me not to exercise - well, not to add anything & nothing strenuous. Problem is, I've never had an exercise routine, so that leaves me sedintary. When I told him I was going to start yoga last winter, he said "Be CAREFUL, go slow & if it's too much, stop." I had never done yoga & was like, yea right - yoga? too hard?? It was. It was REALLY hard! and I was detoxing a lot from it which made me feel temporarily worse (which could be a good thing....)

So, I don't know - I was in zone 7 the first time I tested in 3/07 & was still in zone 7 in March of '08, but almost right on the border of zone 6.

I can just do some walking, but with my Dad's recent dx of congestive heart failure, I'm feeling this urge to start some cardio exercise, like I need to get my heart pumping. I also recently read D'Adamo's book - the Blood Type Diet book & type Os thrive on hardcore exercise. A lot of what that book said rang true for me diet wise as well.
I do feel like I need to dump some of this adrenaline via exercise & running is what I feel like doing but when I said that to my ND, he asked if I really thought it was a good idea (kind of a rhetorical question.)

Thoughts?


----------



## ChristieB

OK, I'm not even diagnosed as AF at this point, plus I have MS to complicate things (so I'm not exactly in your shoes), but I do know about exercise, and how to keep it from kicking my butt.

First off, walking _is_ cardio exercise. It's not what people very often talk about in terms of cardio exercise, but it does get the heart pumping.

If you can walk for exercise, and you feel like you can do more, then try walking faster or farther. But go slow. And make sure that you aren't too far from your car/house, so that if you start to feel like it's too much you can get home and lie down quickly. If it goes well, then stay at that level for awhile, and then try increasing again.

Always be cautious and listen to your body. Keep in mind that if you push too hard you _could_ have a long recovery ahead of you. It's not worth it, trust me.

One dr. told me that if you push your body too much with exercise, you're taking away from the body's energy for healing, so you slow the healing process.

As for D'Adamo's book, I am guessing that he was talking about people who are mostly healthy. I imagine exercise works well for the folks who aren't trying to heal. And he probably wasn't looking so much at those who are trying to heal. So, just keep that in mind.

In my experience (which, like I said, would be different than yours), at times exercise is good for me and adds to my energy, and at times it just makes things worse (and sometimes has sent me to bed for days). I've had to learn over the years how to tell which it will be, and how to test when I'm not sure. The key is to listen to my body and _not_ think about what I "should" do, or how it "should" be.

**********************

I find the talk about procrastination and adrenaline very interesting. I've always procrastinated. I do have more energy in the evening, but after seeing this discussin, I wonder if there's another reason I tend to get more done in the evening (that there is is a small adrenaline rush because I know I _have_ to get certain things done before the day is over, and it's almost over). Interesting. Now how to get around that.









And as for cleaning at night, I'm right there with ya. Dh and I call it the Prozac effect. Years ago I was on Prozac, and at first they had me taking it at the wrong time of day. So it would do something to me and I would go into a cleaning frenzy at about midnight, every night (until they changed the time of day I took it). It still happens, only it's much more rare. Dh always laughs at me when it does (if he's still awake).


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I do feel like I need to dump some of this adrenaline via exercise & running is what I feel like doing but when I said that to my ND, he asked if I really thought it was a good idea (kind of a rhetorical question.)

Thoughts?

Not sure how this applies with AF, but when one exercises after fasting for at least 7 hours, ie, first thing in the morning, your metabolism is increased 50% for 12 hours, iirc. (too tired to look for the reference).

But, basically, exercise in the morning, before eating will help you have more energy all day. Walking (preferably outside in the sunshine) for even 15 minutes is known to decrease depression also. So, you don't have to overdo it.

Also, almonds (1 almond per each 10# of body weight) as a first meal, apparently helps to maintain blood sugar all day long also, which affects my energy level too.

Pat


----------



## transformed

I would not excercise after a fast. That is very dangerous. I don't care what it does to your metabolism.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristieB* 
I find the talk about procrastination and adrenaline very interesting. I've always procrastinated. I do have more energy in the evening, but after seeing this discussin, I wonder if there's another reason I tend to get more done in the evening (that there is is a small adrenaline rush because I know I _have_ to get certain things done before the day is over, and it's almost over). Interesting. Now how to get around that.









For me right now, if I procrastinate like I used to and try to get things done that way, I end up way too stressed out and snappy at anyone who comes my way. I'm actually finding, though, that when I'm feeling good - up on my vitamins and exercise and eating what my body wants - I am suddenly ready to do anything, without the need to procrastinate. It's really weird, but in a 'oh wow, I can get things DONE' sorta way


----------



## transformed

for me, and i am not sure if this is af related, I have a very hard time functioning and doing tasks because I seem to lack planning ability. I cant look at a room and decide "Ok, first I will put the clothes away, then the toys, etc." I look at a room and honestly have no idea what to do.

(Then maybe the adreneline pops in and I get it done somehow.)

Maybe it is AF related.


----------



## Diane~KJ

So I'm on day 2 of no sugar, no caffeine, no refined carbs. The headaches suck, but it just makes me realize how badly I need to do this for myself and I'm sure they will get better after a week or so.

To distract myself today I plan on making a few things that I can freeze and have on hand. Making sure I have appropriate meals and snacks is going to be a huge factor for maintaining this for me.

I'm sure that with my diet I probably have a candida too. I'm not sure if I'm doing things the right way, but at least it's a start in the right direction. I can't go too harsh or take anything for the candida since I'm still nursing my daughter, well at least that's what I'm assuming.

Off to cook.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Not sure how this applies with AF, but when one exercises after fasting for at least 7 hours, ie, first thing in the morning, your metabolism is increased 50% for 12 hours, iirc. (too tired to look for the reference).

But, basically, exercise in the morning, before eating will help you have more energy all day. Walking (preferably outside in the sunshine) for even 15 minutes is known to decrease depression also. So, you don't have to overdo it.

Also, almonds (1 almond per each 10# of body weight) as a first meal, apparently helps to maintain blood sugar all day long also, which affects my energy level too.

Pat

There are mornings when I climb out of bed, walk downstairs & feel nauseous & dizzy from low blood sugar & I have to sit on the floor & stuff myself with animal protein while trying not to puke. I don't think I could do any exercise before eating.









I totally love almonds & am so pissed that the gov't messed with our raw almonds, but I do enjoy TJ's roasted, salted almonds upon occasion & I assume (hopefully correctly!) that since they're roasted, they're not chemically pasteurized.


----------



## harrietsmama

Quote:

Not sure how this applies with AF, but when one exercises after fasting for at least 7 hours, ie, first thing in the morning, your metabolism is increased 50% for 12 hours, iirc. (too tired to look for the reference).
I know this can't apply to AF because a messed up metabolism goes hand in hand with AF. It is imperitive to eat protein at bedtime and right when you get up, based on everything I've read


----------



## applecore

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I totally love almonds & am so pissed that the gov't messed with our raw almonds, but I do enjoy TJ's roasted, salted almonds upon occasion & I assume (hopefully correctly!) that since they're roasted, they're not chemically pasteurized.

Pray tell! I am unaware of what the gov't has done to raw almonds. I'm a big fan of crispy nuts- especially almonds! Maybe I need to switch?


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *applecore* 
Pray tell! I am unaware of what the gov't has done to raw almonds. I'm a big fan of crispy nuts- especially almonds! Maybe I need to switch?

They're no longer technically "raw". Growers cannot sell raw almonds except directly to the public. They are chemically processed using steam- which effectively cooks them.
At least, I believe that is what was being referenced.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18040487/


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
They're no longer technically "raw". Growers cannot sell raw almonds except directly to the public. They are chemically processed using steam- which effectively cooks them.
At least, I believe that is what was being referenced.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18040487/

Oh how I wish they were steam pasteurized....conventional raw almonds are *CHEMICALLY* pasteurized with a carcinogenic chemical now. Organic "raw" almonds are heat pasteurized - the lesser of two evils.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Oh how I wish they were steam pasteurized....conventional raw almonds are *CHEMICALLY* pasteurized with a carcinogenic chemical now. Organic "raw" almonds are heat pasteurized - the lesser of two evils.


Quote:

All almonds, with two exceptions, would undergo a sterilization process that includes chemicals and/or high-temperature treatments. Organic raw almonds will not be fumigated and undergo only the steam-heat treatment thus they are no longer "raw," and small-scale growers can sell "raw" almonds only direct from farm stands.
Ah, I see where I went wrong. I just skimmed the article so I saw that there was chemicals and steam, but not that it was either/or.
Thanks for the clarification, Metasequoia.


----------



## applecore

I need some advice. There is a woman just up the street from me who is going to be teaching Pilates 2x a week at 6:00am. Now, I am one who feels much better for getting exercise, so this really appeals to me. However, I'm NEVER up that early, and I wonder if I would be doing myself a disservice by getting up and exercising at that time. What do you think? Sleep or excercise?


----------



## Pookietooth

Raina, I would not push it, that's too frigging early to be working out for anyone if you ask me, but certainly not for someone with AF.
Around here, they sell imported Spanish raw organic almonds that are not steam or otherwise "pasteurized" (what a loaded term). They have them at the local natural foods coop as well as Trader Joe's.


----------



## Autumnlaughing

Applecore - I loved pilates. I took it with a very gentle yoga-instructor sort, and it did SO much for my back pain! So I can see your dilemma. Of course, now that I think about it, when I was taking that class, I think my AF symptoms were pretty bad. But I miss it









6am is REALLY early though. I know I can't exercise until at least second breakfast. (my damn doctor suggested that for my blood sugar problems I drink a glass of OJ, do aerobic exercise for 20 mins, and then eat breakfast. Uh, what? I can't EVER drink a glass of OJ without feeling sick! Nor can I do much of anything without some protein in my stomach w/out feeling sick.)

Could you maybe do a "drop in" for a day or two and see what happens?

I've been trying to actually *take* the pregnenolone my doctor suggested, and I think it's helping, but the effect is subtle. I wish there was a NON-subtle thing to help! This week has been SUPER stressful at work, and I'm fine during the morning rush but when it stops at 11am, I do, too.


----------



## CathToria

subbing,.. I've read bits and pieces of this thread over teh last few months, but never subbed to it.

I know that I have some hormonal issues going on with me. I'm 41, finally done nursing and having babies, I have a hard time losing weight, despite dieting and exercise (i eat a whole foods, non processed diet of about 1400-2000 cal a day and I exercise intensley 4-6 times a week for 45-90 minutes each time).. I've lost 30 lbs since Jan doing this, but I still have 50 to go adn it's very slow. More concerning, is that my stomach had increased in size during this time. I also have extreme fatigue, espec in teh afternoons, AF changed 2 years ago.. coming more frequent, much heavier, and lasting longer. I've also lost 35-50% of my hair in teh past 8 months. I've been moody and I have seen some facial hair.

I'm hypo thyroid, adn I was just switched from levoxyl to Armour 6 weeks ago. No change so far. I took a 3hr GTT 6 weeks ago to test for IR, but my insulin values were below normal range. I get insulin dependent GD when pregnant. My GTT shows that I am not diabetic or IR. I have low/normal blood pressure, low (good) cholesterols and their ratios, and low triglycerides... so they say no PCOS.

I jsut switched to this Dr, b/c I really think somethign is wrong. I saw him Monday, he drew a bunch of blood for tests, including the thyroid ones, testosterone, among others. I am doing a 24 hr urine to test for cortisol (doing it as soon as AFlo leaves, I think i will be able to collect on Sunday). What else should/can I do? From what I've read, I'm tyhinking that I have IR or I have cushings?????


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CathToria* 
I know that I have some hormonal issues going on with me. I'm 41, finally done nursing and having babies, I have a hard time losing weight, despite dieting and exercise (i eat a whole foods, non processed diet of about 1400-2000 cal a day and I exercise intensley 4-6 times a week for 45-90 minutes each time).. I've lost 30 lbs since Jan doing this, but I still have 50 to go adn it's very slow. More concerning, is that my stomach had increased in size during this time. I also have extreme fatigue, espec in teh afternoons, AF changed 2 years ago.. coming more frequent, much heavier, and lasting longer. I've also lost 35-50% of my hair in teh past 8 months. I've been moody and I have seen some facial hair.

I'm hypo thyroid, adn I was just switched from levoxyl to Armour 6 weeks ago. No change so far. I took a 3hr GTT 6 weeks ago to test for IR, but my insulin values were below normal range. I get insulin dependent GD when pregnant. My GTT shows that I am not diabetic or IR. I have low/normal blood pressure, low (good) cholesterols and their ratios, and low triglycerides... so they say no PCOS.

I jsut switched to this Dr, b/c I really think somethign is wrong. I saw him Monday, he drew a bunch of blood for tests, including the thyroid ones, testosterone, among others. I am doing a 24 hr urine to test for cortisol (doing it as soon as AFlo leaves, I think i will be able to collect on Sunday). What else should/can I do? From what I've read, I'm tyhinking that I have IR or I have cushings?????

Not losing weight despite good diet and exercise, combined with your stomach increasing in size says food sensitivities to me. Have you tried cutting out gluten? (And dairy and...)

Losing hair sounds like classic thyroid issues, hopefully the armour can help with that. Do you also know about the site, www.iodine4health.com?

And the hormonal stuff - AF changes and facial hair definitely could be adrenal-related. Iodine can help normalize sex hormone receptors, and treating the adrenals can help normalize the levels of circulating hormones. Have you seen the honey thread? Seriously, I think they're really on to something, and there's some science to back up the theories. If you are able to sleep well - asleep by 10/11pm, sleeping in the dark - your body can do a LOT in terms of healing itself. Sleep recharges the adrenals, and maximizing melatonin production helps keep you well.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CathToria* 
low (good) cholesterols and their ratios, and low triglycerides...


Be wary of low cholesterol. If you do more bloodwork anytime soon, you may want to look at your vitD status. My cholesterol is 138 and I think it's a symptom of a lot of the things that are messed up with me (adrenal stuff, low progesterone, I suspect low vitD just because they're chemically related in the body, but didn't think to check til after I found out my cholesterol, and I don't care enough to do another blood draw). Not that this really gives you another thing to look into, but just something to keep in mind.


----------



## CathToria

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Be wary of low cholesterol. If you do more bloodwork anytime soon, you may want to look at your vitD status. My cholesterol is 138 and I think it's a symptom of a lot of the things that are messed up with me (adrenal stuff, low progesterone, I suspect low vitD just because they're chemically related in the body, but didn't think to check til after I found out my cholesterol, and I don't care enough to do another blood draw). Not that this really gives you another thing to look into, but just something to keep in mind.

TY,I did notice that Vit D was checked off on the labs drawn last week, so I guess he is checking that already, yay. I woudl be shocked if my Vit D levels are low.. I crave, need, and make sure that I get a lot of sun on as much skin as I am legally allowed to expose (please don;t tell my dermatologist, LOL)

ETA, I wonder if that's why I crave sunshine on my skin so much. I truly love the feeling of teh sun tanning my skin, I always have..... and I'm embarassed about it in these "beware of skin cancer" days

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Not losing weight despite good diet and exercise, combined with your stomach increasing in size says food sensitivities to me. Have you tried cutting out gluten? (And dairy and...)

Losing hair sounds like classic thyroid issues, hopefully the armour can help with that. Do you also know about the site, www.iodine4health.com?

And the hormonal stuff - AF changes and facial hair definitely could be adrenal-related. Iodine can help normalize sex hormone receptors, and treating the adrenals can help normalize the levels of circulating hormones. Have you seen the honey thread? Seriously, I think they're really on to something, and there's some science to back up the theories. If you are able to sleep well - asleep by 10/11pm, sleeping in the dark - your body can do a LOT in terms of healing itself. Sleep recharges the adrenals, and maximizing melatonin production helps keep you well.

TY, I am checking all of those out!!! I did eat the honey last night, that thread is pretty interenting (i only read page 1 though!)


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CathToria* 
TY,I did notice that Vit D was checked off on the labs drawn last week, so I guess he is checking that already, yay. I woudl be shocked if my Vit D levels are low.. I crave, need, and make sure that I get a lot of sun on as much skin as I am legally allowed to expose (please don;t tell my dermatologist, LOL)


But that's the problem--I live in TX and am very fair-skinned, but I would guess I'm low, and I'm guessing my son was low. One of the chemical pre-cursors to cholesterol is the chemical that the sun changes into vitamin D (I think there are a few steps, chemically, I'm fuzzy on the exact details







) and so if your cholesterol is low (depends on how low, probably, but 138 isn't good in anybody's book) then your body doesn't have enough of this chemical around to be changed into D (eta: not enough to keep a healthy level available in the body, I mean). It would be interesting if you've been trying to compensate by maximizing the amount you _can_ convert, and maybe you've succeeded where I think I've failed. I can't say I have any similar cravings, but I'm a lazy indoor person, have always been!


----------



## CathToria

Ok, I'm not at all versed in how the body converts sunlight to D. Here are my lipid labs:

Quote:

TRIGLYCERIDES 147 <150

CHOLESTEROL, TOTAL 160 125-200

HDL CHOLESTEROL 52 > OR = 40

LDL-CHOLESTEROL 79 <130

CHOL/HDLC RATIO 3.1 < OR = 5.0
It says that everything is in range, but since my total cholesterol is 160, it is on the lower side of the 125-200 range. And you'r saying that having lower than average cholosterol is often parallelled with low Vit D levels? very interesting, adn I'll be interested in my Vit D labs .....


----------



## MyLittleWonders

I'm finally going to see my ND today. I feel like I keep feeling worse and worse - tired, more allergies than I ever used to have (I have always had environmental allergy sensitivities (smoke, smog, some generic pollen issues), but it has only magnified this year as my stress levels have increased) plus I am 100% gluten free because of a gluten intolerance, and I highly suspect dairy, but just cannot mentally handle cutting more things out of our diet (we are also already Feingold and do not do any artificial ingredients at all of any kind). I am not able to get sleep because my 2 year old nurses numerous times a night. I am actually at the point where I desire strongly to wean him completely as I think my body is giving what precious little it's getting to him instead of helping me at all. But, he is so stubborn and just cries and screams at me when I say no to nursing. Then emotionally, I'm a wreck because I feel sooooo selfish for not nursing him, knowing that if I just let him nurse, he wouldn't cry. Then I get really upset because I resent sacrificing my body ... it's a vicious cycle. We also have a 7 month old puppy who has seriously increased my anxiety levels. I could vent away for a while, but that is not the purpose of my posting this morning.

My ND is talking about doing a neuro-transmitter test instead of just testing for adrenal function. She says it is good to know what the adrenals are doing, but because it all originates from the hypothalamus and then the pituatary, she thinks it is important to go to the source. Does anyone have any experience in this realm? The test is expensive, and part of me would rather just have my adrenal function tested as it's less expensive (this is all out of pocket, which only adds to the stress because of finances), but I also think she has a good point of going to the source of the problem and getting the neurotransmitters firing/functioning/whatever properly. Any thoughts?


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
My ND is talking about doing a neuro-transmitter test instead of just testing for adrenal function. She says it is good to know what the adrenals are doing, but because it all originates from the hypothalamus and then the pituatary, she thinks it is important to go to the source. Does anyone have any experience in this realm? The test is expensive, and part of me would rather just have my adrenal function tested as it's less expensive (this is all out of pocket, which only adds to the stress because of finances), but I also think she has a good point of going to the source of the problem and getting the neurotransmitters firing/functioning/whatever properly. Any thoughts?

I haven't heard of that before, but I've wondered... A few months ago, I listened to an online lecture by nutritionist Liz Lipski (Digestive Wellness) who was saying that when she suspects adrenal issues, she's stopped even testing at all. One reason was because everyone was testing positive. The second reason is because her way of treating them is the same, regardless of what stage you're in. So I can see skipping the adrenal test, but it's interesting to test the other systems and see if they're causing the adrenal issues. I guess the question I'd ask is what do you do with the results - how do you treat the hypothalamus and/or pituitary, and if it's just general nutrient support (like the adrenals), then does it really matter what they're doing?


----------



## crunchy_mama

Reading and lurking here.... Lately I have been wondering if something more is going on-- lots of pieces I am seeing here. I went gf/cf back in August and it lifted the depression. However, I am having issues w/ grains still yet (was grain free for a period of time before). I am now trying to do a candida diet to hopefully improve myself. The fogginess is horrible. I just cannot think. I feel good in the am I feel like I am crashing all day- just rying to push myself along and then feel ok in the evening. I want to exercise, but I cannot make myself do it. Just cannot. I felt guilty about that, but then I have been thinking that perhaps my body is trying to tell me something and I should honor it. Lo and behold I read here that it could be bad for some people. Oh, and I was also reading on another thread about acidify and alkanizing your urine and it mentioned eating walnuts and lemons- which I have been totally craving. I also found it interesting that people talk about periods of going crazy cleaning and doing everything- if I have a goal then, but then I will not do anything for a long time. The last year and a half have been really stressful- the house burned down and then Lily was born 2 days later- and many more things. I made it through ok and didn't cry and pushed through. I just wonder if it is catching up with me. Anyway.... just thinking out loud.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:

I haven't heard of that before, but I've wondered... A few months ago, I listened to an online lecture by nutritionist Liz Lipski (Digestive Wellness) who was saying that when she suspects adrenal issues, she's stopped even testing at all. One reason was because everyone was testing positive. The second reason is because her way of treating them is the same, regardless of what stage you're in. So I can see skipping the adrenal test, but it's interesting to test the other systems and see if they're causing the adrenal issues. I guess the question I'd ask is what do you do with the results - how do you treat the hypothalamus and/or pituitary, and if it's just general nutrient support (like the adrenals), then does it really matter what they're doing?
That's an interesting thought. I know the company they use for the neurotransmitter test blends their own support supplements. And I know it can/would get costly, which honestly stresses me out, though I also desperately want to be healthy. I'll bring it up with my ND today and see what she says.


----------



## harrietsmama

Have any of you ever tried NeuroModulation Technique? I did it about 5 or 6 years ago. It was $60 a session, so not cheap, but not horrible either. It really helped a lot, and I also reduced my sensitivity to latex by 90%, so after having a few anaphylactic reactions that was a huge relief! It works by kind of 'talking' to your brain through applied kinesiology type stuff, asking your body questions - and the lady was saying such complex stuff so fast and with a speech impediment I know it wasn't just a placebo effect. She also had me look at some weird light box with color patterns sometimes, and it involved some vibrating stimulation to on the spine, like 2 fingers going down each side. I know that is a very jumbled description, but it was pretty cool stuff! She also facilitated saliva testing for adrenals etc. and I got some drops from her called Terrain Max that made a huge difference for me. They had glandulars and other stuff all in a combo.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CathToria* 
It says that everything is in range, but since my total cholesterol is 160, it is on the lower side of the 125-200 range. And you'r saying that having lower than average cholosterol is often parallelled with low Vit D levels? very interesting, adn I'll be interested in my Vit D labs .....

I just thought the whole thing was interesting because when I started reading a bit about this, a lot of things that seemed unrelated suddenly connected. Some of the adrenal-related chemicals, the ones that are off in us, are chemically related too, so it really all seemed to fit.

Nobody seems to mention it to people, our DO who I like didn't even comment on my cholesterol when it was 138, but low cholesterol is associated with some icky things (I don't think causal, at least mine seems more a symptom than a cause). The "bad" cutoff in studies is variable, but I've seen both 160 and 180 as the level below which negative outcomes start to increase--mood disorders, cancers, assorted bad things (overall death rates increase, from all causes).

If you are willing to share once you get your vitD results, I'd be interested. Part of me really wants to know for myself, but I'm not willing to actually go and get bloodwork set up, I guess I mostly want to focus on getting better (which I am, yay! I am so psyched, this year is heading in a really nice direction).


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 

Nobody seems to mention it to people, our DO who I like didn't even comment on my cholesterol when it was 138, but low cholesterol is associated with some icky things (I don't think causal, at least mine seems more a symptom than a cause). The "bad" cutoff in studies is variable, but I've seen both 160 and 180 as the level below which negative outcomes start to increase--mood disorders, cancers, assorted bad things (overall death rates increase, from all causes).

Huh. Interesting. That makes me want to get my cholesterol checked.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
That's an interesting thought. I know the company they use for the neurotransmitter test blends their own support supplements. And I know it can/would get costly, which honestly stresses me out, though I also desperately want to be healthy. I'll bring it up with my ND today and see what she says.

Well, we went ahead with the ASI test for adrenal function. She liked the neuro-test, but had a hunch that even with those results, we would probably need to do further adrenal testing anyway, plus the adrenal testing was cheaper (so much so that I was able to buy two tests - one for dh and I - instead of just getting one of the neurotransmitter tests for me). So, we are going to do our samples tomorrow and I'll mail it off on Monday. I'm really hoping this is the missing piece of the puzzle I've been looking for, as my search is getting tiring.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Raina, I would not push it, that's too frigging early to be working out for anyone if you ask me, but certainly not for someone with AF.
Around here, they sell imported Spanish raw organic almonds that are not steam or otherwise "pasteurized" (what a loaded term). They have them at the local natural foods coop as well as Trader Joe's.

How do you know? It's illegal now for stores to sell truly raw almonds, thanks to our government. Labels are still allowed to claim that the almonds are raw when they actually aren't - that's why people are so ticked off.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Raina, I would not push it, that's too frigging early to be working out for anyone if you ask me, but certainly not for someone with AF.
Around here, they sell imported Spanish raw organic almonds that are not steam or otherwise "pasteurized" (what a loaded term). They have them at the local natural foods coop as well as Trader Joe's.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *harrietsmama* 
Have any of you ever tried NeuroModulation Technique? I did it about 5 or 6 years ago. It was $60 a session, so not cheap, but not horrible either. It really helped a lot, and I also reduced my sensitivity to latex by 90%, so after having a few anaphylactic reactions that was a huge relief! It works by kind of 'talking' to your brain through applied kinesiology type stuff, asking your body questions - and the lady was saying such complex stuff so fast and with a speech impediment I know it wasn't just a placebo effect. She also had me look at some weird light box with color patterns sometimes, and it involved some vibrating stimulation to on the spine, like 2 fingers going down each side. I know that is a very jumbled description, but it was pretty cool stuff! She also facilitated saliva testing for adrenals etc. and I got some drops from her called Terrain Max that made a huge difference for me. They had glandulars and other stuff all in a combo.

Yep, I did it for a while 2 yrs ago. It was $75/15 minutes. I ran out of money before I noticed anything, but I think it can work.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
It's illegal now for stores to sell truly raw almonds, thanks to our government. Labels are still allowed to claim that the almonds are raw when they actually aren't - that's why people are so ticked off.

The story I heard was that after a salmonella scare that was linked to almonds, the California almond growers pressured the government for regulation so that they could save face and reassure the public that they didn't have to worry. The laws prohibit California growers from selling raw almonds besides directly to the public, but I hadn't heard anything about the stores being directly affected.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Living in CA, it is my understanding (which may be wrong) that you can not get truly raw almonds in any store in CA. We can get truly raw almonds shipped directly from the farmer (or purchased directly at the farm). My mom and I usually buy in bulk from Organic Pastures; I actually need to order some next week when I talk to them about our latest milk delivery. But, any almond (or any nut for that matter) that is labeled "raw" in CA in a store has been pasteurized or otherwise treated to kill any "potential" germ. So, though they are labeled raw, they aren't.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
The story I heard was that after a salmonella scare that was linked to almonds, the California almond growers pressured the government for regulation so that they could save face and reassure the public that they didn't have to worry. The laws prohibit California growers from selling raw almonds besides directly to the public, but I hadn't heard anything about the stores being directly affected.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Living in CA, it is my understanding (which may be wrong) that you can not get truly raw almonds in any store in CA. We can get truly raw almonds shipped directly from the farmer (or purchased directly at the farm). My mom and I usually buy in bulk from Organic Pastures; I actually need to order some next week when I talk to them about our latest milk delivery. But, any almond (or any nut for that matter) that is labeled "raw" in CA in a store has been pasteurized or otherwise treated to kill any "potential" germ. So, though they are labeled raw, they aren't.

Two past threads with lots of articles & links:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...89#post8994889

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=almonds


----------



## Pookietooth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
How do you know? It's illegal now for stores to sell truly raw almonds, thanks to our government. Labels are still allowed to claim that the almonds are raw when they actually aren't - that's why people are so ticked off.

No, it's illegal for California almond growers to sell on the wholesale market almonds that are truly raw (although you can go to the farm yourself and buy them raw, from what I've heard, under the radar, from a friendly almond farmer). It's not illegal to sell raw almonds imported from elsewhere. These are the ones I'm talking about. Maybe they don't sell them in the California Trader Joes, but they did here (at both the Trader Joe's and the local natural foods coop) at least as of this August (I stopped buying them because they came up as an IgG allergen for me). While they aren't anywhere near being local (what's the carbon footprint of shipping from Spain), they are organic and raw, which are nice.


----------



## crunchy_mama

- still lurking here- wow! I followed a link someone had posted about adrenal fatigue and am just shaking my head in agreement. I took the burnout quiz and was off the charts high. I didn't realize all these things were related, I have horrible insomnia issues- up at 3 am a good deal of the time and cannot go back to sleep. Funny to read that often people w/ adrenal issues are awake from 1-4am. Hypoglycemia- check- I have had horrible problems w/ that since my first pregnancy. It was crazy reading the times that are usually problematic 10=2-4, that is my worst time. In the am I feel ok, but start to feel crappy worse as the afternoon goes, but it starts to pick up after 4 or 5. Mild Depression- unfortunately. I am trying to keep myself going, but not doing the best at times. I keep withdrawing- it is too much stress to be out and about too much. Allergies- yep- cf/gf here and I really don't tolerate any grains. chocolate and soy seem to be an issue as well. Infections- well- I know I have a huge candida problem. HUGE!! Working on that currently.

At the beginning of the year I was grainfree and was able to function ok. I made myself exercise, but I wasn't getting that exercise high anymore. In fact honestly it made me feel worse, I wasn't getting improvements. I kept plugging on, I thought if I kept at it things would get easier, but it didn't(although I have been a regular exerciser for years). but I had a slip up and got back on my allergens and was in a fairly deep depression for 3 months I was stuck on the couch.

A couple of weeks ago I finally broke down and told dh I had to have some more suport as I was going crazy- literally. I have tried to institute some changes here that I know have helped in the past. I have been more strict keeping out allergens. I am staying away from carbs and sugar(because of the candida and blood sugar issues), making sure I am increasing my protein. I am taking hv clo, try and remember my magnesium (natural calm) at night. I had some B vitamins before but they had gluten and I had to get rid of them. It is funny as I gave them to my mom and she said they made her jittery and I didn't notice that in the least when I took them.

So, I have been trying to glean some info here:

I have a calcium and mineral supp I need to start back on
vit C (SA)
B complex- will be ordering some more- as I had planned to see if it could help my mood
licorice-I have always had low blood pressure as well- interesting
nettles- I already have some around because I know they have all kinds of good things in them- so will try that out as well.
salt- 1/4 t a day- need to double check the dose and figure out the best to get- right now I just have sea salt

We have a local ND (just 1) but I wasn't very pleased w/ her. Although if I could get her to run some tests that would be good. I guess I need to research what tests are needed what I can get done on my own and then call and talk to her and see if she will be able to help before I spend money I don't have.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
- still lurking here- wow! I followed a link someone had posted about adrenal fatigue and am just shaking my head in agreement. I took the burnout quiz and was off the charts high.

Burnout quiz?


----------



## crunchy_mama

http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/burnout.php
here it is


----------



## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
But that's the problem--I live in TX and am very fair-skinned, but I would guess I'm low, and I'm guessing my son was low. One of the chemical pre-cursors to cholesterol is the chemical that the sun changes into vitamin D (I think there are a few steps, chemically, I'm fuzzy on the exact details







) and so if your cholesterol is low (depends on how low, probably, but 138 isn't good in anybody's book) then your body doesn't have enough of this chemical around to be changed into D (eta: not enough to keep a healthy level available in the body, I mean). It would be interesting if you've been trying to compensate by maximizing the amount you _can_ convert, and maybe you've succeeded where I think I've failed. I can't say I have any similar cravings, but I'm a lazy indoor person, have always been!

Not to mention the link between seratonin and cholesterol. Yup, low is no good. DD's got to 90 at one point. Mine has always been very low as has my mother's. That tends to be hereditary. Low cholesterol is a risk factor for depression and mood disorders.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez;12559266.*
One of the chemical pre-cursors to cholesterol is the chemical that the sun changes into vitamin D (I think there are a few steps, chemically, I'm fuzzy on the exact details







) and so if your cholesterol is low (depends on how low, probably, but 138 isn't good in anybody's book) then your body doesn't have enough of this chemical around to be changed into D (eta: not enough to keep a healthy level available in the body, I mean).

I found this to be an *extremely* good explanation of how the adrenals work and what their function is in the body, although it is a little technical and long.
I haven't had a chance to read it in a while but will be doing so again soon considering I too scored "off the charts" on the burnout quiz. Big surprise there. Thanks for the link crunchy mama.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I found this to be an *extremely* good explanation of how the adrenals work and what their function is in the body, although it is a little technical and long.
I haven't had a chance to read it in a while but will be doing so again soon considering I too scored "off the charts" on the burnout quiz. Big surprise there. Thanks for the link crunchy mama.









You shared that link somewhere else a while back, and I looked and was blown away by all the info, but also intimidated--I need to re-read. But at the same time, their discussion of liver detoxification and phase 1 and phase 2 detoxification, and things that help or impair them, has been amazing to me. I've slogged through the whole thing several times now, trying to absorb more bits and pieces. I really need to poke around on that site a bit more, it's a really nice site.

http://www.tuberose.com/Liver_Detoxification.html

http://www.tuberose.com/Cholesterol.html

Hey, one on cholesterol too! I need to learn more.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
You shared that link somewhere else a while back, and I looked and was blown away by all the info, but also intimidated--I need to re-read.
Hey, one on cholesterol too! I need to learn more.

Yeah, it's my go-to site when I *really* want to know something. It can be really overwhelming though, you're right. It took me about 3 weeks of having an open tab on the thyroid gland before I managed to actually read it and about the same for the adrenals, I think.







:
I read the adrenals and thyroid info in the same night and there are all of these overlaps that make you just go "Well, NO WONDER." or "Well, I guess I need to add <insert supplement here> to my regimen."
I love ithyroid.com though because they tell you what you need to take with other supplements in order for them to be most effective.









ETA: Oh yeah, somewhere in the adrenal information I found something about impaired conversion of cholesterol to other hormones. When I saw this, I immediately thought it may be a possible reason for the high cholesterol "epidemic" we're seeing and thought I saw clues as to what causes the conversion problem.

ETA again: Glancing through the cholesterol link, it looks like that might be expounded upon. I don't think that article was there at the time.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Not to mention the link between seratonin and cholesterol. Yup, low is no good. DD's got to 90 at one point. Mine has always been very low as has my mother's. That tends to be hereditary. Low cholesterol is a risk factor for depression and mood disorders.

That makes a lot of sense. My mom and I both have low cholesterol (we are very similar blood-chemistry wise, extremely similar). We also have dealt with mood disorders and depression. Her parents both had/have (one is deceased; one is alive) mood disorders and depression. My mom also had her Vit. D levels checked not too long ago and they were extremely low. I have not had mine checked, but I am most certain mine would be quite low too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I found this to be an *extremely* good explanation of how the adrenals work and what their function is in the body, although it is a little technical and long.
I haven't had a chance to read it in a while but will be doing so again soon considering I too scored "off the charts" on the burnout quiz. Big surprise there. Thanks for the link crunchy mama.









Thank you for the article. I'm going to read it in a second. I also was "off the charts" with the burnout quiz.







:Hopefully in about 2 weeks, I'll have some answers.


----------



## crunchy_mama

I just read the adrenal article, very interesting! Found a few more related things; hemorrhoids and dark patches on the skin.

I have a question on taking the extra salt. I already salt and salt and salt food like crazy (good to know now there is a reason) however taking that much at once I don't know how I am supposed to go about it. I dipped my sausage in it today and that was ok, but didn't know if there was a way that most people do.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
I just read the adrenal article, very interesting! Found a few more related things; hemorrhoids and dark patches on the skin.

I have a question on taking the extra salt. I already salt and salt and salt food like crazy (good to know now there is a reason) however taking that much at once I don't know how I am supposed to go about it. I dipped my sausage in it today and that was ok, but didn't know if there was a way that most people do.


Quote:

When you are already low on body fluids and electrolytes, as you are in this situation, you should always add salt to your water. Do not drink soft drinks or electrolyte-rich sports drinks, like Gatorade, because they are high in potassium and low in sodium, the opposite of what someone with low cortisol levels who is dehydrated needs. Commercial electrolyte replacement drinks are designed for people who produce an excess of cortisol when exercising, not people who are low on cortisol and aldosterone. Instead, yo are much better off having a glass of water with ¼ - 1 teaspoon salt in it, or eating something salty with water to help replenish both sodium and fluid volume.
This is why you see a lot of the people in this thread talking about drinking salted water.








ETA: And I believe that the majority of us use Celtic sea salt, fwiw.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
I have a question on taking the extra salt. I already salt and salt and salt food like crazy (good to know now there is a reason) however taking that much at once I don't know how I am supposed to go about it. I dipped my sausage in it today and that was ok, but didn't know if there was a way that most people do.

When I do it (I'm not now, I should probably re-start), I make a little sandwich on a spoon between thin layers of applesauce. I tried it in water and just couldn't get it down, and putting it on top of a bit of applesauce caused the same difficulties, but if I'm fast and careful, I can get most of it down in one swallow without tasting the salt too much.


----------



## harrietsmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I found this to be an *extremely* good explanation of how the adrenals work and what their function is in the body, although it is a little technical and long.
I haven't had a chance to read it in a while but will be doing so again soon considering I too scored "off the charts" on the burnout quiz. Big surprise there. Thanks for the link crunchy mama.









Wow! That was a great article. The hemorrhoid part was significant, although since dp also has crohn's he won't let me near his tushie







He's back to having accidents, worried about the appt. with the endo on Monday. If only I could get him to quit the fudge bar-lucky charms diet. Between his cramps,his mouth being so dry and sore etc, I can't convince him to change. He doesn't get the salt part and how it could reduce/eliminate the cramps, and get more saliva going and make his mouth less sore (he lost his teeth and had the last few removed 3 years ago)


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I love ithyroid.com though because they tell you what you need to take with other supplements in order for them to be most effective.









ETA: Oh yeah, somewhere in the adrenal information I found something about impaired conversion of cholesterol to other hormones. When I saw this, I immediately thought it may be a possible reason for the high cholesterol "epidemic" we're seeing and thought I saw clues as to what causes the conversion problem.

ETA again: Glancing through the cholesterol link, it looks like that might be expounded upon. I don't think that article was there at the time.

I'm glad ithyroid has been a help. It was one of the things that really helped me start putting together the pieces. I still wish it focused more on figuring out what the underlying reasons are, but I've gotten a lot from the process of putting together the pieces of my puzzle. One thing I didn't realize until after I'd done it--iodine can mobilize mercury and halides, and I had no idea until well after I'd jumped right in at (very) high doses while nursing. I think there are things that can be done to minimize the problems, but I'm not really sure what, and at the time I had no idea.

Interesting about impaired conversion, I had no idea, I will go learn something new.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I'm glad ithyroid has been a help. It was one of the things that really helped me start putting together the pieces. I still wish it focused more on figuring out what the underlying reasons are, but I've gotten a lot from the process of putting together the pieces of my puzzle. One thing I didn't realize until after I'd done it--iodine can mobilize mercury and halides, and I had no idea until well after I'd jumped right in at (very) high doses while nursing. I think there are things that can be done to minimize the problems, but I'm not really sure what, and at the time I had no idea.

I remember you saying something similar about drinking lemon juice in water (mild mercury detox). It turns out that this actually has to do with adrenals since they "horde" vitamin c and the vitamin c helps mobilize the mercury out of the adrenals- that little tid bit is in the adrenal article.
It really does seem like a puzzle sometimes, doesn't it? Too bad we don't have the bloody box to look at for help.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
When I do it (I'm not now, I should probably re-start), I make a little sandwich on a spoon between thin layers of applesauce. I tried it in water and just couldn't get it down, and putting it on top of a bit of applesauce caused the same difficulties, but if I'm fast and careful, I can get most of it down in one swallow without tasting the salt too much.

I forgot to ask, how much salt are we talking? The 1/4-1 teaspoon right? Or is there another recommendation somewhere that I missed?

ETA: If that's the one we're talking about, what I like to do is eat it with a raw potato and a glass of water so that then the body is also getting some potassium and can kind of replenish all three if necessary. Maybe I shouldn't do it that way, but I find that I'm *far* less dehydrated the next day if I do it like that.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I remember you saying something similar about drinking lemon juice in water (mild mercury detox). It turns out that this actually has to do with adrenals since they "horde" vitamin c and the vitamin c helps mobilize the mercury out of the adrenals- that little tid bit is in the adrenal article.
It really does seem like a puzzle sometimes, doesn't it? Too bad we don't have the bloody box to look at for help.









I actually ran across the lemon juice as a liver support thing, it's supposed to be followed with a relatively fatty breakfast to help with bile flow or something. Never would've connected adrenals and vitC to this (though I've really seen my adrenals be stressed by chelating, so I know they're quite the repository for mercury for me--I guess both out from the chelation, and in for the mercury (hopefully a small amt) that re-settles. I guess it was both, thx for the insight.









It sorta seemed mild (I didn't get sick from it, just odd symptoms) but it did improve my mood within a few days, and (imagine me kicking myself multiple times) my son's toxic load jumped--he gets daily bowel tolerance vitC (among so many other things) and his daily need went from 3g/day to 12g/day. Sigh.... no long-term harm done, I don't think, given all the work I'm putting in with the kids to get all this [email protected] out of them too, but wow, I felt like slime.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I forgot to ask, how much salt are we talking? The 1/4-1 teaspoon right? Or is there another recommendation somewhere that I missed?

ETA: If that's the one we're talking about, what I like to do is eat it with a raw potato and a glass of water so that then the body is also getting some potassium and can kind of replenish all three if necessary. Maybe I shouldn't do it that way, but I find that I'm *far* less dehydrated the next day if I do it like that.

I've taken in the 1/4-1/2 tsp range (I lurk on this thread to figure out how much), just can't get more down, and I'm really not sure how much I need. I've wondered whether I should cut out potatoes for us, given the potassium content, but we salt them generously and they're tasty and convenient and cheap. Cheap is good right now.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
It sorta seemed mild (I didn't get sick from it, just odd symptoms) but it did improve my mood within a few days, and (imagine me kicking myself multiple times) my son's toxic load jumped--he gets daily bowel tolerance vitC (among so many other things) and his daily need went from 3g/day to 12g/day. Sigh.... no long-term harm done, I don't think, given all the work I'm putting in with the kids to get all this [email protected] out of them too, but wow, I felt like slime.

Sometimes I wonder about that. I mean, really, if I work to keep the mercury flowing out rather than settling in them isn't that better than not letting it out at all? Even if they wouldn't have been exposed to it if I weren't getting rid of it? Having it in my body is also going to effect them in the long run, in the manner that, chances are they won't have a mom as long as they would if I *do* get it out.
That's not to say that I've actually taken the step of detoxing while bfing simply because I kind of see that viewpoint as selfish self-rationalization, yk? Otoh, I *really* want to get better and now I'm going to be delayed another 2 years (minimum) again with the new baby coming in May/June. sigh
The joys.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
I have a question on taking the extra salt. I already salt and salt and salt food like crazy (good to know now there is a reason) however taking that much at once I don't know how I am supposed to go about it. I dipped my sausage in it today and that was ok, but didn't know if there was a way that most people do.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
When I do it (I'm not now, I should probably re-start), I make a little sandwich on a spoon between thin layers of applesauce. I tried it in water and just couldn't get it down, and putting it on top of a bit of applesauce caused the same difficulties, but if I'm fast and careful, I can get most of it down in one swallow without tasting the salt too much.

Yep, that's what I do. I always feel better when I do this, but there have been times when I've spent a little time in the bathroom from too much salt.







:

You know, I've wondered for a while now, ever since I read a Lyme protocol with salt & vitamin c that's supposed to kill off the bacteria - I wonder if it really kills off the bacteria or strengthens the adrenals so that people can heal? Maybe a little of both.

Almonds, it's had my head spinning for a while now so I've just avoided them - except for the occasional bag of TJ's roasted almonds because I figure (maybe wrongly!) that since they're roasted, they're not likely to be chemically pasteurized. $15 for a lb is just so out of my price range, especially when you add on shipping & tax.


----------



## crunchy_mama

thanks for the input on the salt. I had a few baked potatoes (coincidentally) tonight and I can put a LOT of salt on a baked potato. I think I might also try it w/ my beet and green juice in the am- it sounded kind of good this am, but I was too chicken to try it. Man, I had a total crash this afternoon and binged on my gf/cf pancakes (thankfully w/o syrup)- regardless I still felt crappy afterwords. I have to prevent the bs crash.

I have been trying to search back through this thread and find different vit B supp's recommendation, but I am not finding specifics or the ones I have found have gluten in them- anyone have a good one that is gf/cf/sf?

aha- more searching found one:
http://www.rockwellnutrition.com/B-S...H_p_0-856.html


----------



## Mama~Love

Some good news from me - I have an appointment to see a naturopath on the 19th!! Hopefully it will do some good!


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
I have been trying to search back through this thread and find different vit B supp's recommendation, but I am not finding specifics or the ones I have found have gluten in them- anyone have a good one that is gf/cf/sf?

aha- more searching found one:
http://www.rockwellnutrition.com/B-S...H_p_0-856.html

I use Perque2 Life Guard, it's a multi with a reasonably high dose of Bs (and lots of zinc, good for me). We're gfcf and the bottle says soy-free too. In case you want more options.


----------



## MommyHawk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
This is why you see a lot of the people in this thread talking about drinking salted water.








ETA: And I believe that the majority of us use Celtic sea salt, fwiw.

I use Redman's Ancient Sea Salt taken from Utah - it is red and off white with brown and black specks - tons of trace minerals in it. The moment I started using it just on my food I could feel a significant boost in energy and less dizziness. Now I take 1/8 - 1/4 tsp in the AM, mid morning, Noon, mid afternoon, and evening along with Organically Bonded Minerals and Calcium Lactate to maintain electrolytes. I still sometimes feel a little fuzzy/dizzy, but only if I stop and think about it and really pay attention. Most of the time I feel fantastic and able to function







. I can't believe I spent a whole year so dizzy I could barely drive let alone watch my kids or take care of myself and everything else!

Obey your salt cravings!!!


----------



## godusjourney

Hello Everyone!

I suppose I belong here. I suspected Adrenal Fatigue a year or two ago, but not really knowing what to do about it (and feeling very overwhelmed) I just threw it onto a dusty mental shelf for later.

Well, fast forward to the present - I weaned ds in March of '07, two months later got the Mirena IUD inserted, a month later started having serious cystic acne (which I'd never had before in my life), started gaining lbs. even while running 10+ miles/week and eating the same as I'd eaten before (which was pretty darn healthy). I had the Mirena taken out, huge stressful things happened, I got depressed and started eating junk food everyday (and not the "good" health food store junk either). Within 6 months I'd gained 20+ lbs. (and was heavier than I was at the *end* of last pregnancy, and over 10 lbs. heavier than I'd ever been not-pregnant), my body completely reshaped and doesn't even look like my body, and the cystic acne made itself at home and threw a party. I tried every couple of months to do *something* to detoxify/etc. - I did 3+ juice fasts (during the last one, which was 5 days long, I actually *gained* weight - which was my indicator that fasts were NOT good for my body anymore), did a couple of herbal cleanses, would eat really good for a week or two, then succumb to cravings and binge again on junk (majorly caused by the "I just don't give a







" feeling I couldn't shake).

I finally scraped up a tiny amount of motivation (previously I just "couldn't care" no matter how hard I tried or wanted to), and the last 6 months I've been 85% sugar-free, 95% organic, and trying really hard to eat loads of really good, balanced foods, I've been working on sleep and trying to get to sleep early, laugh often, get rid of unneccesary stress - you get the drift. I also turned my exercise attention to building strength (instead of cardio/endurance), and spend a good deal of time every week working out with a friend doing functional exercises and such. I feel SO much better, my depression is lifted *majorly*, and I'm not quite as snappy. BUT acne is still going strong and I haven't lot a single. pound. Not one of the 20 I gained over the last 9 months (and I have a very small frame, so it's really causing my body problems). I'm also still pretty dang spacey.

Anyway, last week I took my dd into the naturopath for suspected asthma/allergies. Offhandedly I asked him for advice regarding rebalancing hormones (as I thought this was probably my problem) and explained the acne and weight gain (and he'd treated me for chronic fatigue in the past). He immediately grabbed a book with silly illustrations and symptoms and starting asking me if this sounded like me. It was about Adrenal Fatigue.

I just read the article posted above, and WOW it is me to a tee. Serious fatigue, asthma-like symptoms, sweating, heart palpitations, dizzy, chronic sinusitis, pretty bad hypoglycemia, crashes during the day when I need to sleep for an hour or more (after sleeping a 10 hour night), really bad dehydration, frequent urination, oversalting everything (to the point where dh thinks something is disgusting and I still think it needs salt), craving sugar like there is no tomorrow, snapping very easily, irritated by sounds, lights, etc., collapsed foot arch, knee issues, lower back issues (and a strange serious pinched nerve problem in both my arms that I'm wondering has something to do with this)... The list goes on and on. I kept nodding throughout the article. The part about the baby/mama really worried me - I'm wondering if I was a baby born with a bit of adrenal stress (and this makes me VERY worried about my kids - what on earth did I do to them? And how do I repair it?!?). My mom has many of those symptoms as well (including the psychosis - and I mean that in as kind a way as possible).

I'm doing testing with my nDr. next week. I'll keep going back through this thread, as time allows, and learn more from you all. In the meantime, I'll indulge my salt needs, try upping my vit. c and pantothentic acid. Any other suggestions that might make me feel better for the time being?

Thanks! I look forward to learning from you all!


----------



## applecore

I take my salt in a hot mug of chicken broth. Mmmmm.


----------



## Metasequoia

Welcome Sarah,

I have been noticing the heart palps & sweating recently too - as well as the increase in the "spaciness" feeling. There's more to the mental feeling but I have a hard time describing it - it IS almost a psychosis, I often feel like I'm not really present, again, hard to explain.

I went through a tremendous amount of stress this last month & I think it has finally hit me.







I am realizing that my adrenaline was just going & going this last month & my body is finally feeling the effects of it.

Aside from the B vits & C, I'd suggest organ meats from pastured animals if you can, or at least lots of meat from pastured animals.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *applecore* 
I take my salt in a hot mug of chicken broth. Mmmmm.

Mmmm, soooo good for you.


----------



## Metasequoia

Blah, I think it hit. The low after the continual surge of adrenaline this past month. I feel horrible. Mostly mentally, like some health anxiety stuff - I've spent the evening self-diagnosing myself with PCOS because I think I'm too hairy & I wonder if my recent heart palps are from insulin resistance. I like to think that it's just my poor, wasted adrenals raising the white flag, but who knows?

My cycles are long, with AF showing up around 40ish days, but it's always been that way - since kids. When I was a teen, I'd sometimes go for months w/o a period, the most being 4 or 5 months.

I emailed my naturopath (adrenal doc) with my concerns & he is probably nodding saying 'yep, I knew all that stress was gonna get her...' I have a physical with the sister facility where my ND works & will ask all of these questions then too.

I should be in bed, asleep. I have been having mad headrushes lately which would also point to adrenal, so that's reassuring, ha.

I know there are a couple mamas here with PCOS, how does it tie in with adrenal fatigue?


----------



## Autumnlaughing

Test results back today!

So I *finally* got my saliva cortisol test results today:
waking - 9
noon- 1
6pm - 1
midnight - 1

which tells me nothing that I didn't already know. Except maybe that I'm not making it all up. Which is good.

What should I do about it? What you're doing! Said the doctor. Which is great and all, but it's only half working.

(what am I doing? Eating as much salt as I can. Trying to eat as little sugar. Adrenal cortex2 twice a day. PregnenoloneX1 twice a day. Licorice 2.7g in the am)

(Ohyeah, except that he thinks I should try to stop all that when I get pregnant. We're both hopeful - he says he's seen it become a non-problem for the duration of the pregnancy. Of course, in order to get pregnant, I'd need to OVULATE (CD66...), but who's counting... )

Now that I'm over being relieved that I'm not crazy, I'm pretty frustrated.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godusjourney* 
I'm doing testing with my nDr. next week. I'll keep going back through this thread, as time allows, and learn more from you all. In the meantime, I'll indulge my salt needs, try upping my vit. c and pantothentic acid. Any other suggestions that might make me feel better for the time being?

If the pantothenic acid causes adverse affects, make sure you balance it with the rest of the B's. And B-6, magnesium and cholesterol are also important for the adrenals. And if you're having trouble with magnesium supplements, calcium can help you take more.

In order to reduce chronic stress on your body, you could look at food sensitivities. Gluten and dairy are *really* common, so they're a good place to start with an elimination diet.

I learned that besides being responsible for sodium levels in your blood, aldosterone is also responsible for how sensitive your taste buds are to salt. So if you're someone who's hiding the salt to get it down, I'd make sure it really is making you feel better to take it - it might not be necessary!


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Sometimes I wonder about that. I mean, really, if I work to keep the mercury flowing out rather than settling in them isn't that better than not letting it out at all? Even if they wouldn't have been exposed to it if I weren't getting rid of it? Having it in my body is also going to effect them in the long run, in the manner that, chances are they won't have a mom as long as they would if I *do* get it out.
That's not to say that I've actually taken the step of detoxing while bfing simply because I kind of see that viewpoint as selfish self-rationalization, yk? Otoh, I *really* want to get better and now I'm going to be delayed another 2 years (minimum) again with the new baby coming in May/June. sigh
The joys.

I've been thinking about this since you posted. It is so.darn.hard to balance our needs with our kids. I am grateful that I have fewer choices--I figured out the mercury thing while nursing, but it was because my cycles were WAY weird (which is not normal for me nursing) that I sought out a new healthcare provider. My cycles are weird enough that I'm infertile and have stayed that way for, well, I haven't had a long enough luteal phase to get pregnant since my son was born, he's 2y7m now, (plus we're careful, just in case my body suddenly reverts to something more normal).

I know firefaery knows a lot about how to get healthier with heavy metals while nursing. I got to the point that I didn't think my nursing was clearly better from a risk/benefit standpoint for my son, and I _knew_ I needed to get my fillings out in order to get better and try to start being a better parent. It's really stressful, and honestly depressing, to know that I haven't been the parent I want to be, and I think can be, since before my son was born.

Seriously, check with firefaery for ideas, my repertoire for dealing with free-floating toxins without drawing out additional toxins is very limited. Just vitamin C and modifilan, a seaweed. But I hear ya on needing to feel better.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I have been having mad headrushes lately which would also point to adrenal, so that's reassuring, ha.

What do you mean by headrushes? I get something that I call a headrush in response to certain foods...

*Autumnlaughing* - are you taking vitamins too? I can't say enough good stuff about taking all the adrenal nutrients - it's all I've been doing to heal, and I absolutely notice a HUGE difference when I do or don't take them.


----------



## Autumnlaughing

I don't know what metasequoia means, but when I say "headrush", I usually mean that thing that happens before you pass out - the lack of vision + hearing? I think the technical term is "synchope" or something.

I forgot the vitamins







I'm taking a multi with megadoses of Bs - Bs seem to be absolutely crucial to me. If I take them out, everything goes awful!

I'm also taking magnesium + vitamin D, because it's the only way to keep me out of severe deficiencies of each. When I was on the pill, I needed to take even more magnesium to keep me at a "low normal" point - when I went OFF the pill, I think I briefly (~2.5 months) didn't need it at all, but now I do again


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
What do you mean by headrushes? I get something that I call a headrush in response to certain foods...

Yes, when I stand up & feel VERY dizzy. Lately, it's been occasionally bad enough that I need to sit down or grab hold of something.

It's a sign of a drop in blood pressure, which is the diagnostic tool in confirming AF or the severity of it.

Here's what my naturopath said in response to my question about PCOS:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my ND*
I wanted to get back to you on the PCOS. PCOS is a problem intimately related to the adrenal glands. The treatment is diet (low sugar and carb thus reducing blood glucose and insulin) and hormonal balancing (especially the adrenals). You are already doing these things which will take care of any potential PCOS tendency in you over time. There's no specific test for PCOS and Conventional treatment for PCOS is metformin and birth control pills. Neither of which I'd recommend, nor would you be interested in (I think)
Ask Dr. Schmidt for a fasting insulin level at your visit, you can tell him I suggested it. This may tell us about your overall metabolism of carbohydrates. Not to mention the interactions if higher insulin and estrogen.

Iiiiiiinteresting....

I could probably just fast overnight & use my Dad's glucometer in the morning, before eating.

NOW, here's some cool stuff:

I've been reading like gangbusters about heart disease & diabetes, I thought I'd share the books that my ND recommended when I told him about my Dad (did I already post the titles??)

The Sinatra Solution: Metabolic Cardiology by Stephen Sinatra, M.D., F.A.C.C.
Dr. Sinatra also wrote Reverse Heart Disease Now.

Richard Bernstein M.D. - The Diabetes Solution and under that he wrote The Diabetes Diet.

I got both of the Bernstein books & the second Sinatra book, Reverse Heart Disease Now but the first Sinatra book, The Sinatra Solution, still hasn't arrived.
I skimmed through Bernstein's books & totally agree with him on the very low carb thing & no refined sugars - he also recommends good, full fats over fake stuff & doesn't buy the saturated-fat-is-bad-for-you myth, which is refreshing. BUT, he suggests artificial sweeteners which I'm not on board with, so it has to be taken with a grain of (Celtic sea







) salt. Overall, I REALLY like his research & approach to treating & preventing diabetes.

I wonder how much our hypoglycemia (as AF sufferers) comes into play with future diabetes risk? I think that's why I find it interesting because I'm already doing the low card, little to none refined sugars thing.

Sinatra's book is OUT OF THIS WORLD! He & Dr. Roberts are two cardiologists who separately discovered the benefits of natural supplements in healing & preventing heart disease - Dr. Sinatra calls this "metabolic cardiology." I haven't cruised around Dr. Sinatra's site yet, but here it is.

How does this fit us?? I was doing a search for the 3 supplements that Dr. Sinatra recommends as the most powerful: CoQ10, L-carnitine & D-ribose & Chronic Fatigue came up.
I've spoken with my ND many times about my chronic muscle pain & he's talked about the same 3 supplements for mitochondrial dysfunction - which it turns out, a lot of chronic fatigue folks suffer from (chronic fatigue = adrenal fatigue, IMO.)
D-ribose helps with ENERGY, which we could all use, right?

I looked up each of the supplements in relation to chronic fatigue or adrenal fatigue & found a lot of promising information - see for yourselves!

Some of them (especially D-ribose) are expensive, but I've found vitacost to be a good source. The best form of CoQ10 is Q-Gel, which is absorbed 2-3 times better than other forms. I have a month's supple of all of these in my virtual shopping cart for my Dad & it's just under $100. I'd like to try this protocol out on myself for a few months to see how I feel. I wouldn't need to take as much as him since I don't have cardiovascular disease.

Oh, Dr. Sinatra is on the low carb wagon too but he's also on the no/low-saturated fats wagon, again, more Celtic sea salt.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 

How does this fit us?? I was doing a search for the 3 supplements that Dr. Sinatra recommends as the most powerful: CoQ10, L-carnitine & D-ribose & Chronic Fatigue came up.
I've spoken with my ND many times about my chronic muscle pain & he's talked about the same 3 supplements for mitochondrial dysfunction - which it turns out, a lot of chronic fatigue folks suffer from (chronic fatigue = adrenal fatigue, IMO.)
D-ribose helps with ENERGY, which we could all use, right?

I looked up each of the supplements in relation to chronic fatigue or adrenal fatigue & found a lot of promising information - see for yourselves!


*PRECAUTIONS-**D Ribose* 
Pregnant women and nursing mothers should avoid supplemental D-ribose.

*Supplemental D-ribose may cause hypoglycemia and elevation in uric acid levels.* Those with gout should avoid supplemental D-ribose, and those with elevated uric acid levels and hypoglycemics should exercise extreme caution in its use. Those with diabetes should also exercise extreme caution in its use. And those diabetics who decide to try D-ribose must be under a physician's supervision and have their blood glucose levels closely monitored and their antidiabetic medications appropriately adjusted, if necessary.
http://www.vitadigest.com/d-ribose.html
http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php...n1/dribose.xml

The CoQ10 and L-carnitine sound much more beneficial, perhaps.
http://www.vitadigest.com/vitamins--...-coenzyme.html
http://www.vitadigest.com/l-carnitine.html

*Food sources:* *CoQ10* is found in spinach, broccoli, nuts, meat, and fish..The richest food sources are organ meats, beef, soy oil, sardines, mackerel, and peanuts.
http://www.bodyandfitness.com/Information/Health/Research/cq10.htm

Btw, fermented cod liver oil has naturally occurring CoQ10. http://www.kellythekitchenkop.com/20...es-part-1.html

Food sources of *L- carnitine*: http://www.supplementnews.org/l-carnitine/index.htm (basically meat)

Pat


----------



## CathToria

Metasequoia, using a glucometer will test your glucose levels, not your insulin levels. I has teh 3 hr GTT done with an extra draw to test insulin levels too. Based on those insulin levels, i was told that I was not IR, but my new endo wants to diagnose me IR based on symptoms instead of insulin levels.

If I have IR and/or other hormonal issues..... if met and or hormonal birth control are suggested... what would be the "real" dangers of taking them. I'm not a drug fan in general, but I'm also not a fan of feeling so tired, losing my hair, and having a huge stomach despite diet adn exercise. Just trying to weight the risks vs. benefits, adn woudl appreciate any input!!!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
*PRECAUTIONS-**D Ribose* 
Pregnant women and nursing mothers should avoid supplemental D-ribose.

*Supplemental D-ribose may cause hypoglycemia and elevation in uric acid levels.* Those with gout should avoid supplemental D-ribose, and those with elevated uric acid levels and hypoglycemics should exercise extreme caution in its use. Those with diabetes should also exercise extreme caution in its use. And those diabetics who decide to try D-ribose must be under a physician's supervision and have their blood glucose levels closely monitored and their antidiabetic medications appropriately adjusted, if necessary.
http://www.vitadigest.com/d-ribose.html
http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php...n1/dribose.xml

The CoQ10 and L-carnitine sound much more beneficial, perhaps.
http://www.vitadigest.com/vitamins--...-coenzyme.html
http://www.vitadigest.com/l-carnitine.html

*Food sources:* *CoQ10* is found in spinach, broccoli, nuts, meat, and fish..The richest food sources are organ meats, beef, soy oil, sardines, mackerel, and peanuts.
http://www.bodyandfitness.com/Information/Health/Research/cq10.htm

Btw, fermented cod liver oil has naturally occurring CoQ10. http://www.kellythekitchenkop.com/20...es-part-1.html

Food sources of *L- carnitine*: http://www.supplementnews.org/l-carnitine/index.htm (basically meat)

Pat

Yep, Dr. Sinatra said all of that in his book & I noted it on the list I sent with my dad for his doctor visit. It could lower his insulin dosages.... Dr. Sinatra recommended taking the D-ribose with juice or a meal to head off the drop in blood sugar.

I think most of those supps had the same warning for pregnant or nursing mothers, usually because there hasn't been enough research. Dr. Sinatra said that if a mother has certain health problems, he's used these supps while breastfeeding with no ill effects.

I would be very cautious with the drop in blood sugar though, since I'm so affected by hypoglycemial as it is.

*CathToria*

I wouldn't take BCP because I've seen them damage people too much. How many times I've read....it all stared when I went on BCP & I stopped but these symptoms won't go away...

I'm confident that my ND's advice would work for me should I have IR. It just makes sense that low carb, low sugar would be the answer.

I think the plenty of sleep in total darkness thing is important too, especially for diabetics.


----------



## mystic~mama

hi, I've got a lot of the symptoms of adrenal/cortisal imbalance...I'm curious if any of you have severe PMS as well (PMDD)

thx


----------



## bigeyes

I've never been officially diagnosed with it, but if you ask my dh...









I'm very irregular, so I can't track it with a calendar at all, but usually the way it goes is, I get my period and I'm like







_that's_ why everyone I've encountered in the past 2 days has been a complete UAV.







YK, cuz it can't be _me._


----------



## Metasequoia

PMS: You know, I don't know what it was, but ever since my cycles returned after Ds, this past May, AF (not adrenal fatigue, lol) has been a breeze. It had been 3 yrs since I had my cycles & I was dreading them. I haven't had any cramps, bleeding isn't so bad - heavier on the first day, but never soaking through anything & it last exactly 5 days. I dont notce any PMS either.

I don't know if it's the adrenal healing or that I cut out gluten & some other allergens, but I am LOVING it.

********
*ITCHING*

I know I've mentioned my itching problem - upper arms, only at night, driving me to the edge of INSANITY. It's been going on for somewhere around 1.5 yrs. I've done allergy testing, I've eliminated, rotated, gone away from home for 3+ weeks....nada.

Then I had a thought...the other day I was at the grocery store. I was overdressed, wearing pants, a long sleeved shirt, a sweater & a heavy coat. I was lugging around a basket filled with at least 40 lbs of food plus my purse. I got up to the cash register & there was a problem with the machine. I had to pick up my friend's son from school at 1pm & the clock was ticking. I should have had plenty of time but the loooong hold up at the register took forever. I kept looking at the clock & trying to decide if I should ditch my groceries or what. In the end, I left my groceries & split for fear of missing the pick up (I babysit this boy & didn't want to be late.)
As soon as I got outside, I peeled off my layers & was a sweaty mess of stress. I got in the car & I ITCHED like a mad woman, for like 5 minutes straight, I just scratched my upper arms/shoulders.

Then I wondered if it had to do with adrenaline or cortisol.

The itching is almost always during the night. Once I get started, it's hard to stop. If I can resist the scratching, I can usually fall back to sleep, but like I said, if I start, ugh. I can't imagine why I'd have adrenaline rushes in my sleep or cortisol ups or downs...or whatever hormonal up or down that *might* be triggering this itching.

Does anyone think there could be any connection??? I've mentioned the itching millions of times to my adrenal doc & he's never made any connection with hormones - but that doesn't mean it's not possible.
I've taked Benadryl for it & it works (maybe with the antihistaines or maybe by knocking me out - but I truly thinks it relieves the itch.) It also started to dry up my milk though, so I stopped taking it.
*
Can stress cause a histamine reaction?*


----------



## Panserbjorne

absolutely.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
absolutely.

But how exactly? Inflammation? Lack of cortisol? Both? It makes sense that if cortisone creams relieve itching, that it could be a lack of cortisol. I'm *very* low in cortisol, so I guess it makes sense...

Why am I the only one who is experiencing the itchiness? My naturopath who specializes in adrenal fatigue hasn't made the connection - it was his idea to do the allergy testing (rightly so, not a bad place to start, IMO), but he hasn't mentioned other adrenal patients with itchiness as a chief complaint.

If I had an adrenaline rush, I wonder if my cortisol would become so depleted immediately that it would cause immediate itching?

I'm looking at my last two ASIs & the first one was 10, <1, 3, 2 (8am, noon, 5pm, midnight) & the second one, along the same timeline, was 10, 3, 2, 2.

So it's low at night, but I occasionally itch when I wake up, when it's 10 (which is still depressed.)

It is lowest in the evening & at night though... Back when it was <1 at noon, I don't remember itching in the middle of the day.

Bah, and here I am at almost midnight trying to figure out if my low cortisol is the reason I itch & thinking that I *really* need to heal & get my cortisol to where it should be.


----------



## bigknitwit

Hi everyone,

I am just joining this thread now, after skimming my way through it! I have felt "off" for so long now, it's difficult for me to remember feeling all way normal.

I have hashimotos, and I'm on a large dose of thyroid replacement.

I recently did the ASI test and got the following results:

8am 13 (13-24)
11am 11 (5-10)
4pm 11 (3-8)
12am 11 (1-4)

Please keep in mind that I am in my 3rd triemester of pregnancy, and from what I have read, cortisol levels should be roughly double those of a non-pregnant woman at this point.

My biggest, hugest issue that has been the case for years now, is INSOMNIA. I can't stand it. These days, I can not sleep without taking Unisom (usually 1/4 -1/2 dose). I am desperate to overcome this problem. I often have trouble going to sleep, and I have trouble staying asleep. I am also unable to nap during the day, no matter how hard I try.

Dose anyone know how to deal with elevated evening cortisol, along with depressed morning levels - all the while pregnant and about to be nursing?


----------



## Theloose

On the topic of insomnia...

We all know how important pantothenic acid is for the adrenals. If I don't take it, I start getting really angry at dh. I looked it up in my massive nutrition textbook, and what do you know, deficiency is associated with sleep disturbances. Which is interesting, because I just realized that if I up my pantothenic acid dose, I sleep better - the honey has been tapering off for me. Even MORE interesting is that a deficiency in vitamin C can make the symptoms of a pantothenic acid deficiency worse. I've been really bad about getting vitamin C lately, but just significantly increased it because I'm sick. Last night, I slept better than I have in a looong time.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
On the topic of insomnia...

We all know how important pantothenic acid is for the adrenals. If I don't take it, I start getting really angry at dh. I looked it up in my massive nutrition textbook, and what do you know, deficiency is associated with sleep disturbances. Which is interesting, because I just realized that if I up my pantothenic acid dose, I sleep better - the honey has been tapering off for me. Even MORE interesting is that a deficiency in vitamin C can make the symptoms of a pantothenic acid deficiency worse. I've been really bad about getting vitamin C lately, but just significantly increased it because I'm sick. Last night, I slept better than I have in a looong time.

Ooh, interesting. My sleep issues seem to be very directly melatonin-related, but melatonin does nothing for my husband, who also has sleep problems (mostly just falling asleep). I've been wondering if he's been falling asleep faster lately, I wonder if this is part of that.

How much pantothenic acid are you taking (before and after the increase), may I ask?


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
How much pantothenic acid are you taking (before and after the increase), may I ask?

Before, I was taking 1000mg plus 250mg in a B complex. Now, I'm taking 1500mg plus the B complex, and saw a difference, and my one night trial of several grams of vitamin C in addition to all that went well. If it keeps on doing well, I'll try lowering the pantothenic acid back down again.

BTW, pantothenic acid and riboflavin compete for absorption, so I have much better luck taking the megadose of pantothenic acid away from the B-complex. Dd and I were showing signs of riboflavin deficiency otherwise (red lips, cracking corners of mouth, peeling skin around nose), especially when I was getting lots of vitamin A. Which works with riboflavin for good skin.


----------



## Shawnamarie

Hi ladies,

I haven't posted in this forum in a while but I have been doing a ton of research on adrenal insufficiency lately and came upon this thread. Hope you don't mind if I jump in here! I'm still reading through this whole thread. It's long and probably full of a ton of useful info.









One of the symptoms with adrenal fatigue is allergies/sensitivities to food, chemicals, just about anything, etc., and it seems to be one of my biggest problems with my own adrenal issues. It's making it really difficult for me to treat myself for all of this, too. I react to most vitamins/herbs/foods/medications, so I don't know what to do. I reacted strongly to a very low dosage of Armour thyroid earlier this week and my doctor and I are both very confused. She is hesitant to have me try any of the usual vitamins, herbs, or hormone therapies for repairing the adrenals for fear I will react.

I don't expect anyone here to really have answers, but can anyone relate? This whole experience is pretty isolating and it would be interesting to hear of anyone else having something similar, or even just some thoughts to share.

Thanks so much,
Shawna


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shawnamarie* 
Hi ladies,

I haven't posted in this forum in a while but I have been doing a ton of research on adrenal insufficiency lately and came upon this thread. Hope you don't mind if I jump in here! I'm still reading through this whole thread. It's long and probably full of a ton of useful info.









One of the symptoms with adrenal fatigue is allergies/sensitivities to food, chemicals, just about anything, etc., and it seems to be one of my biggest problems with my own adrenal issues. It's making it really difficult for me to treat myself for all of this, too. I react to most vitamins/herbs/foods/medications, so I don't know what to do. I reacted strongly to a very low dosage of Armour thyroid earlier this week and my doctor and I are both very confused. She is hesitant to have me try any of the usual vitamins, herbs, or hormone therapies for repairing the adrenals for fear I will react.

I don't expect anyone here to really have answers, but can anyone relate? This whole experience is pretty isolating and it would be interesting to hear of anyone else having something similar, or even just some thoughts to share.

Thanks so much,
Shawna

Hi Shawna,
While I am not personally in your position, I know there is at least one other lady in the allergies forum who is having a similar problem. I'm not certain if the one of whom I'm thinking is on this thread or not, but I know she is on the Healing the Gut thread.
I couldn't read w/o some kind of response.
Jacqueline


----------



## bigeyes

I never had any allergies of any kind other than to cats, until I started having other symptoms of adrenal fatigue. As an adult I suddenly started having allergies to _everything,_ and I believe it is related to adrenal fatigue, fwiw.


----------



## Autumnlaughing

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shawnamarie* 
One of the symptoms with adrenal fatigue is allergies/sensitivities to food, chemicals, just about anything, etc., and it seems to be one of my biggest problems with my own adrenal issues. It's making it really difficult for me to treat myself for all of this, too. I react to most vitamins/herbs/foods/medications, so I don't know what to do. I reacted strongly to a very low dosage of Armour thyroid earlier this week and my doctor and I are both very confused. She is hesitant to have me try any of the usual vitamins, herbs, or hormone therapies for repairing the adrenals for fear I will react.

I don't expect anyone here to really have answers, but can anyone relate? This whole experience is pretty isolating and it would be interesting to hear of anyone else having something similar, or even just some thoughts to share.

Thanks so much,
Shawna

As you suspected, I don't have any solutions, but I can totally relate! I'm known as being allergic to everything - wheat, dairy and eggs get along with me OK, but everything else is iffy - especially medications. A good chunk of the time I'll get some weird, random side effect that's so far down the list that the doctors give me The Look when I tell them about it. I had *awful* hideous depressive panic attacks on ventolin that they never did believe me about. And I really hate hearing "Well, if it works/doesn't work for you" because that's what they say when they realize you're crazy, but they're going to have to work with it. I even seem to have some sort of crazy sensitivity to iron!

I have had luck with adrenal cortex, and a low-iron, high B multi for this.

I'm actually working with my allergist on this - he actually said that this should be my top health priority right now. I agree. My house would be less dusty/moldy and I'd eat healthier if I had any energy to do it! So, it would help my allergy issues even ASIDE from the adrenal/allergy link.

I have to say that now that I'm sure it's adrenal insufficiency and not laziness, I'm wondering about a bunch of things - for example, I remember noting that salty food helped my really awful hypoglycemia problems - the non-standard ones, that leave me completely overwhelmed + fatigued but not passing out (except in the too-tired kind of way). Maybe that's not so much hypoglycemia as low sodium?

I'm also realizing that I shiver a lot when I'm not actually cold. Especially in movies or in stressful social situations. We went to see the new Bond movie tonight, and I shuddered the ENTIRE way through it. I used to think I was cold, but really - I wasn't.

Also - anyone here have the "pass out at sight of blood" problem? I didn't have it until I was in college, and it still amazes me every time. I can be thinking about/watching something that doesn't *cognitively* bother me, but then the world starts going black.... I guess I wonder if it could be adrenal related because I'm fine in a SUPER stressful situation, until the situation is over!

OK - I rambled enough. I hope I made you feel a bit less alone, Shawna!


----------



## bigeyes

I've _always_ been a fainter.









Except in one instance where I knew I was the only person who could get someone to the ER, then I didn't faint _until we got there._







I still don't know how I managed that one.

I'm well known for saying _I'm fine_ and then sliding down a wall or falling out of a chair. I've always been afraid one of the kids would get hurt when dh wasn't around, but hopefully I would make it to the ER again and then pass out.









Only recently have I wondered if I've had adrenal fatigue for most of my life. I can think back to at least my teens and recall some of the symptoms starting way back then. The worst of it started in my late 20s and early 30s and got progressively worse, but there were symptoms long before then.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I never had any allergies of any kind other than to cats, until I started having other symptoms of adrenal fatigue. As an adult I suddenly started having allergies to _everything,_ and I believe it is related to adrenal fatigue, fwiw.









: (except for the cat allergy.) I think it's adrenal too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Only recently have I wondered if I've had adrenal fatigue for most of my life. I can think back to at least my teens and recall some of the symptoms starting way back then. The worst of it started in my late 20s and early 30s and got progressively worse, but there were symptoms long before then.

I know I have, in retrospect, it makes too much sense. I fainted a few days after I had Dd1 (9 yrs ago). I was having difficulty with nursing, very stressed about it & just fainted, hit my forehead on a cabinet & got a big ole bruise. Thank goddess I wasn't holding Dd.

I see it now in Dd1, she's has the same high strung, anxious tendencies that I've always had. I have no doubt that if she did an ASI, her adrenal function would be compromised.







sad: BUT, I am aware of it & I can help her heal while she's still a kid.


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shawnamarie* 
I reacted strongly to a very low dosage of Armour thyroid earlier this week and my doctor and I are both very confused. She is hesitant to have me try any of the usual vitamins, herbs, or hormone therapies for repairing the adrenals for fear I will react.

From what I've been reading, if you start taking Armour for hypothyroid and have symptoms, it means you have adrenal fatigue and need to deal with that first (with hydrocortisone). Check out Stop the Thyroid Madness -- I bought the book and found it really helpful.

I just started taking Armour and it gave me a racing heart. I stopped and re-started taking Isocort at the same time, and now I don't have any symptoms. I think prescription-strength cortisone would be better, but I was in between appointments and had the Isocort here. Also, I think my AF is way better than it was a year ago.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Autumnlaughing* 
I'm known as being allergic to everything - wheat, dairy and eggs get along with me OK, but everything else is iffy - especially medications.

I'm sure you know this already, but I have to ask, because I don't know your whole story. Do you know about gluten intolerance and how it can cause gut damage without any symptoms. And because of that damage, you can react to a bunch of other things? Have you ever been tested for gluten sensitivity to be sure you're not reacting - blood or enterolab?

And I can't help but wonder if your other sensitivities, especially to nutrients are due to severe deficiencies somewhere else. Do you do bone broth? I keep thinking that a really salty cup of bone broth might be a really good thing.


----------



## Shawnamarie

Thanks for helping me feel less alone, Autumnlaughing!







So are you saying that the adrenal cortex helped lessen your sensitivity to things?

New Mama, thanks for the book recommendation. I'll check it out! I've also wondered about taking Isocort, so I'll ask my doctor about that. What have you been doing to help your AF over this past year?

I don't have any kids yet, and I've been saying for some years now that I really want to try to get my body in a better condition before we start trying. I feel like it's taking forever!









Thanks, everyone!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
From what I've been reading, if you start taking Armour for hypothyroid and have symptoms, it means you have adrenal fatigue and need to deal with that first (with hydrocortisone). Check out Stop the Thyroid Madness -- I bought the book and found it really helpful.

I just started taking Armour and it gave me a racing heart. I stopped and re-started taking Isocort at the same time, and now I don't have any symptoms. I think prescription-strength cortisone would be better, but I was in between appointments and had the Isocort here. Also, I think my AF is way better than it was a year ago.

I think, too, in my case, years of UAV doctors giving me tranquilizers and antidepressants made it worse. I was never _depressed,_ I had _adrenaline surges,_ and every pharmaceutical drug they gave me not only suppressed my thyroid further, it was also harder on my adrenals.







: They hand that [email protected] out like candy when they can't diagnose you properly.


----------



## Autumnlaughing

Whome - I've done a blood test (IgE/IgG) that came back clear for wheat, but I did a challange anyway last December, when I had my diet stripped clean of EVERYTHING else + still felt like crap. I admit that I only managed about a week, but I didn't feel any different, just more stressed about being able to find food (I do test as and have symptoms to corn and soy - and I could only eat so many stir frys before I went mad). I kept to a low-gluten diet for awhile after that, just in case, but it really seems to not be my problem. Mold, on the other hand, seems to be a big one for me!

I've had a hard time finding a comercial broth that doesn't have black pepper in it and doesn't cost $5 a serving. I know it isn't too hard to make, but I can't *store* it easily - it would have to be frozen because of my mold allergies, and it takes so damn long to thaw that I never use it even when I do make it. I think I'd love to try the salty-broth-in-the-morning thing, I just have to figure out how..

I really would love to know what my problem with iron is - I get SUPER faint, and the first time I got the most serious digestive illness in my life for longer than I'd been taking it for! I've heard it could be a lack of vit. C, but the last time I tried to keep my C intake up, and it didn't help. I guess it's just all that fairie blood in my veins!!









Shawna - I don't know if it's the adrenal cortex or the no-allergen diet I was on for 7 months, but I can tolerate MUCH more than I could before - the problem is that this means that I can, say, eat the Wonder Bread they serve at work, without any problems! At least...none that are handy negative reinforcement..

I don't have kids either.. though it's more for financial/waiting for DH reasons. We started trying a few months ago, and I just keep telling myself that each month we DON'T succeed is another month of healing for my body, first...

More generally - what are the risks of taking some kind of cortisone/Isocort? DH is adamant that an endocrinologist can "fix" me, and that's the only way I can think of. I just keep thinking that if I could have enough energy to deal with some of the back log of things in my life, even for a little while, then I could reduce my stress level overall. But, if it would cause more problems long term, than it probably wouldn't be worth it.

I'm feeling pretty hopeless today. DH suggested I get a second job, so that I can save money + maybe stay home with a baby for a bit (I can't imagine juggling a new baby + a full time job +my health), but would that stress now do more damage in the long run? I want my body as healthy as possible for growing a baby - it seems the most likely to keep my kids from having these problems as badly as I do.


----------



## applecore

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Only recently have I wondered if I've had adrenal fatigue for most of my life. I can think back to at least my teens and recall some of the symptoms starting way back then. The worst of it started in my late 20s and early 30s and got progressively worse, but there were symptoms long before then.

I am tracing it back to my teens as well. Waking up before school to clean the barn, school, cheerleading practice, showing horses, working part time. Yeah, I can see why I might have gotten burned out! On top of that I had a string of respiratory illneses that kept me down for awhile. When I was a senior in high school my back started hurting really badly, and I started physical therapy, which didn't help. From then on, I've always been hurting in some way, and I started thinking that it was normal.







I'm just so glad to have figured it out now!


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shawnamarie* 
New Mama, thanks for the book recommendation. I'll check it out! I've also wondered about taking Isocort, so I'll ask my doctor about that. What have you been doing to help your AF over this past year?

I stopped eating gluten (my DS was confirmed gluten-intolerant, as have a few members of my family, and I suspect I am too though I was never tested), switched from a vegan diet high in processed soy products and no good fats to a Traditional Foods diet, and started taking vitamins/minerals (including Blue Ice cod liver oil). I also started using sea salt liberally.


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I think, too, in my case, years of UAV doctors giving me tranquilizers and antidepressants made it worse. I was never _depressed,_ I had _adrenaline surges,_ and every pharmaceutical drug they gave me not only suppressed my thyroid further, it was also harder on my adrenals.







: They hand that [email protected] out like candy when they can't diagnose you properly.









Yeah, don't get me started on mainstream medical docs. I feel like they have failed me my entire life.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Autumnlaughing* 
Whome - I've done a blood test (IgE/IgG) that came back clear for wheat, but I did a challange anyway last December, when I had my diet stripped clean of EVERYTHING else + still felt like crap. I admit that I only managed about a week, but I didn't feel any different, just more stressed about being able to find food (I do test as and have symptoms to corn and soy - and I could only eat so many stir frys before I went mad). I kept to a low-gluten diet for awhile after that, just in case, but it really seems to not be my problem. Mold, on the other hand, seems to be a big one for me!

If you have Celiac disease, a "low gluten" diet would not help and even the trace amounts of gluten in any plastic utensils, non-stick pans, toaster (if it was used) etc would be enough to prevent you feeling better. Additionally, I believe the time line for feeling better on a gf diet for someone with Celiac is about 3 weeks. The antibody you'd want to test for Celiac is IgA, and the best test for that is a stool test.

I'm also chiming in as another one who, in hindsight, realized that they have had symptoms of AF since their teen years.


----------



## neveryoumindthere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
*If you have Celiac disease, a "low gluten" diet would not help and even the trace amounts of gluten in any plastic utensils, non-stick pans, toaster (if it was used) etc would be enough to prevent you feeling better.* Additionally, I believe the time line for feeling better on a gf diet for someone with Celiac is about 3 weeks. The antibody you'd want to test for Celiac is IgA, and the best test for that is a stool test.

I'm also chiming in as another one who, in hindsight, realized that they have had symptoms of AF since their teen years.

Bolding mine.
I have Celiac and I have gotten 'glutened' from the crumbs in the toaster and was SICK SICK SICK for days after and felt I'd gone backwards on my progress. It was awful. You really should try going TOTALLY GF and while you're at it, casein/dairy-free too since they go hand in hand so often. It seems like a lot of food to be off of, but it's not so bad as long as you don't overthink it (like I did!)

HUGS to everyone dealing with this and hoping you/we all are better soon!


----------



## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I think, too, in my case, years of UAV doctors giving me tranquilizers and antidepressants made it worse. I was never _depressed,_ I had _adrenaline surges,_ and every pharmaceutical drug they gave me not only suppressed my thyroid further, it was also harder on my adrenals.







: They hand that [email protected] out like candy when they can't diagnose you properly.









hell, I'll join you there! I was drugged, poked, and prodded for YEARS because they couldn't figure out celiac disease. None of the meds helped, but I took them becuase there was a chance they *might.* I ended up non-functional. I had no idea that I was on antidepressants and anxiety meds. I mean, I was in my teens! I wasn't depressed, I was SICK. NOW I know I have celiac disease (and I still get the adrenaline surges!) I am a million times better, but not because any doctor helped me. Well, not fair. One finally did. After 26 flippin' years.







Seriously. Not once was it ever recommended that I should look at my diet other than to remove fiber. Anyway, I hear ya.


----------



## Panserbjorne

oh, and how's this for weird? Dh just got his ASI results along with some other testing....he has the worst reading possible AND has celiac disease. What are the odds of that? How did I manage to marry and procreate with someone ELSE with CD? The bright side is it's super easy....we were already GF in our house!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *applecore* 
I am tracing it back to my teens as well. Waking up before school to clean the barn, school, cheerleading practice, showing horses, working part time. Yeah, I can see why I might have gotten burned out! On top of that I had a string of respiratory illneses that kept me down for awhile. When I was a senior in high school my back started hurting really badly, and I started physical therapy, which didn't help. From then on, I've always been hurting in some way, and I started thinking that it was normal.







I'm just so glad to have figured it out now!

I look back and it was my teens where I formed my workaholic habits. I had 3 part time jobs at 16 so I never had to go home until my parents were at work (night shift) and by the time I was an adult I was in the habit of working all the time and getting by on not enough sleep. It was probably 25 years before I figured out I was abnormal and it wasn't healthy to work all the time without rest just because people would hire you to do so. Then when I started showing the signs of adrenal fatigue, instead of someone realizing my body was breaking down, they decided I needed tranquilizers and antidepressants so I could keep working an ungodly schedule without complaint.









I swear, adrenal fatigue is where middle aged stoners and addicts come from, because people can't get any real help so they start self medicating just to calm down.


----------



## Shawnamarie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
I stopped eating gluten (my DS was confirmed gluten-intolerant, as have a few members of my family, and I suspect I am too though I was never tested), switched from a vegan diet high in processed soy products and no good fats to a Traditional Foods diet, and started taking vitamins/minerals (including Blue Ice cod liver oil). I also started using sea salt liberally.

This is fabulous! Several years ago I was actually a raw vegan and that ended up doing very poorly for me... I even stopped menstruating. From there I slowly transitioned to traditional foods and haven't looked back.


----------



## Shawnamarie

Gosh, I think mine even started before my teens and puberty was just another huge stressor for my body. I am tracing mine back to an extremely unstable childhood and an alcoholic parent. I was chronically ill from a very young age.

I wonder just how young some children are when they are diagnosed with something like AF?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *applecore* 
I am tracing it back to my teens as well. Waking up before school to clean the barn, school, cheerleading practice, showing horses, working part time. Yeah, I can see why I might have gotten burned out! On top of that I had a string of respiratory illneses that kept me down for awhile. When I was a senior in high school my back started hurting really badly, and I started physical therapy, which didn't help. From then on, I've always been hurting in some way, and I started thinking that it was normal.







I'm just so glad to have figured it out now!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shawnamarie* 
Gosh, I think mine even started before my teens and puberty was just another huge stressor for my body. I am tracing mine back to an extremely unstable childhood and an alcoholic parent. I was chronically ill from a very young age.

I wonder just how young some children are when they are diagnosed with something like AF?

I seriously doubt very many _are_ diagnosed as children. If I had not found a thyroid group that was discussing adrenal fatigue as it related to thyroid, I _still_ would not have any idea what it was. Most mainstream doctors dismiss it as make-believe and just want to hand out happy pills.







:


----------



## BeingMe

Anything other than progesterone cream I can use? The last time I was tested I was estrogen dominant (although it wasn't high), and I have many signs of low progesterone. I just don't want to start a cream, I would rather try some kind of food, herb, etc. Anyone have any ideas?


----------



## crunchy_mama

Another one here w/ gluten issues. It definetly makes me depressed. When I finally went gf again the cloud lifted in 2 days. I could get off the couch again. Now, it doesn't solve everything for me- I still am having some mood and energy issues, but it is huge.


----------



## crunchy_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeingMe* 
Anything other than progesterone cream I can use? The last time I was tested I was estrogen dominant (although it wasn't high), and I have many signs of low progesterone. I just don't want to start a cream, I would rather try some kind of food, herb, etc. Anyone have any ideas?

I am wondering about this as well. I am in the same boat although I am still bf'ing though. I am trying to figure out how this all interplays as my foggy brain cannot remember all my classes on NFP. Guess I will have to break out my big ol' book. I would rather my fertility fully return then deal w/ everything else. My cycles have returned and it seems that I am ovulating, but my luteul phase is too short, my mucus is nutso and I am having spotting for a couple of days before my period even starts. I have had the same problem before I had kids, but it seemed to be related to low body fat (so I thought at the time). I know that is not an issue now though. I am trying to figure out the role of iodine in all of this as well.


----------



## crunchy_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
oh, and how's this for weird? Dh just got his ASI results along with some other testing....he has the worst reading possible AND has celiac disease. What are the odds of that? How did I manage to marry and procreate with someone ELSE with CD? The bright side is it's super easy....we were already GF in our house!

That is interesting. Did your dh start to notice a reaction to gluten foods when you eliminated from your home? Or was it an unexpected diagnosis? My son's genetic testing show that he recieved genes from both of us, of course that doesn't mean they are expressed, but dh seems to have food issues as well that he chooses to ignore. Of course he thinks I am just paranoid. No diagnosis here for any of us though. I refuse to go back on gluten for the length of time required and pay the money oop for all the testing.


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
oh, and how's this for weird? Dh just got his ASI results along with some other testing....he has the worst reading possible AND has celiac disease. What are the odds of that? How did I manage to marry and procreate with someone ELSE with CD? The bright side is it's super easy....we were already GF in our house!

My DH just did the EnteroLab test and found out he's gluten intolerant, too. I read that 1 in 133 people are, so I guess it's not surprising. And we're already gluten-free here pretty much (all the dinners I cook are GF, including things like pizza) but DH is used to eating sandwiches and bagels and drinking beer, so that has to change. I have to admit being annoyed with his "poor me" attitude, though, because it's SO much easier for him than it would be otherwise.







I've read about people with celiac disease whose family doesn't respect that at all.


----------



## Panserbjorne

he did notice a difference when we went GF, but didn't realize how much all of the "cheats" could hurt him. However, right BEFORE we got these results back he asked me if we could go back to the specific carbohydrate diet because he felt best on that. That's pretty telling. I did NOT expect celiac disease. I thought gluten intolerance. This explains alot though.


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## MyLittleWonders

I think I could trace my issues back to early childhood - early preschool (my mom was SAHM, but thought preschool a few days a week for a couple hours would be good - I was scared to death to be there and did not speak the entire first year), major speech impedement (took 7 years to correct), and all that followed by my parents' divorce when I was 7 (which I found out about by walking into the house and seeing my dad pack - my girlfriend was supposed to have me come home with her that day). The stresses in my life just added up from there.

That said, I am still waiting on the results of my (and dh's) ASI test. My biggest fear is it will come back as everything is fine because the day we did the test, I was having a "good" day - I was rolling with the punches alright that day. Two days later, things were totally different. I am hoping and praying that after a lifetime of AF symptoms that one "good" day won't alter the results of the test. (Can someone reassure me that one good day won't totally skew the results of the ASI?)

And on the subject of gluten, we are GF here. I do not think it has made a hill of beans difference for me (though through informal muscle testing, my ND did confirm that I was intolerant to gluten/wheat), it makes a huge difference for my sons. They all show signs of AF. Ds#2 regained his speech abilities (he was dx with Childhood Apraxia of Speech at 2 1/2) within one month of being GF, and he lost his extreme sensory issues (absolute fear of water on the face, going down slides and going on swings). The other two have benefitted as well, just not as obviously as ds#2. Dh still eats gluten from time to time when he's not home and claims it doesn't affect him, but I swear it does.

Until our results come in, my ND put me on a big ol' multi-vitamin/mineral, B12 with the B-complex I was already taking, major cod liver oil (she told me to triple what I was already taking), 1000IU extra of Vit. D (I am very fair skinned and rarely am out in the sun as I burn very easily and/or get cold sores from sun exposure), magnesium (which I usually take anyway, but I think I reached bowel tolerance ... oy not fun), and an herbal blend from her. I even made up a little schedule for me so I could remember what to take, and when to take it.

I worry that I should also eliminate dairy, at least for me, and probably for all of us. But, it is overwhelming thinking about doing that right now. I'm struggling just making meals we are okay eating with dairy ... I don't think I need the added stress of trying to make up meals without any dairy. One thing at a time, right?


----------



## *Jessica*

Oh boy.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *http://www.naturalnews.com/019339.html*
*Symptoms of adrenal fatigue:*

Morning fatigue -- You don't really seem to "wake up" until 10 a.m., even if you've been awake since 7 a.m.
Afternoon "low" (feelings of sleepiness or clouded thinking) from 2 to 4 p.m.
Burst of energy at 6 p.m. -- You finally feel better from your afternoon lull.
Sleepiness at 9 to 10 p.m. -- However, you resist going to sleep.
"Second wind" at 11 p.m. that lasts until about 1 a.m., when you finally go to sleep.
Cravings for foods high in salt and fat
Increased PMS or menopausal symptoms
Mild depression
Lack of energy
Decreased ability to handle stress
Muscular weakness
Increased allergies
Lightheadedness when getting up from a sitting or laying down position
Decreased sex drive
Frequent sighing
Inability to handle foods high in potassium or carbohydrates unless they're combined with fats and protein

I have e v e r y s i n g l e symptom on that list! I guess I need to read the entire thread. *sigh*


----------



## Theloose

I stopped eating gluten for dd when she was 6 months old, and noticed absolutely no difference when I tested it a month later. A few months after that, and dd was still reacting to random oopsies but my body told me nothing. It took 6 months after elimination for me to notice being 'glutened,' and I'm still not convinced. But enterolabs confirmed sensitivity in me, and my since-puberty AF symptoms disappeared within a week of cutting out gluten, dairy and soy. Of course then I had to go and stress myself out about the cause of the sensitivities and get the adrenals to crash instead of healing themselves, but now I know more, right? I think my point is that food sensitivities can cause very subtle changes, so sticking with gluten and dairy free can result in unexpected benefits on down the line.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

We've been GF for 1 year, 5 months. I know I have slipped twice - both knowingly, once while using enzymes to see if I could counter any reactions. But, the last time I have had any gluten was back in March. And I never had any physical symptoms. But, I also have no desire to go back.

That said, I have been dairy free all day today. I ended up having something go through my digestive system. I thought it was too much magnesium, but talking with my best friend, it seems I had the same symptoms she did a few days before with some small bug. So, I've been very careful with what I've eaten, and have had no grains (something I don't think are good for me), no sugar (just raw/cold packed honey), and no dairy. Not saying I'm going to be able to keep that up, but we'll see.


----------



## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I stopped eating gluten for dd when she was 6 months old, and noticed absolutely no difference when I tested it a month later. A few months after that, and dd was still reacting to random oopsies but my body told me nothing. It took 6 months after elimination for me to notice being 'glutened,' and I'm still not convinced. But enterolabs confirmed sensitivity in me, and my since-puberty AF symptoms disappeared within a week of cutting out gluten, dairy and soy. Of course then I had to go and stress myself out about the cause of the sensitivities and get the adrenals to crash instead of healing themselves, but now I know more, right? I think my point is that food sensitivities can cause very subtle changes, so sticking with gluten and dairy free can result in unexpected benefits on down the line.

Yes!! I was thinking of posting mostly this same thing. It can take months to see any results from going GF, and even then it can be subtle (and yet profound).

Just as another example, I went GF along with ds and dh. They noticed improvements almost immediately. I did not. If anything, I got worse (hard to say, though, if it was related, since I have health issues that get better and worse anyway). We all did Enterolab testing. Ds and dh both were pos. (ds has the CD gene, and dh has a GI gene). I was kind of boderline, but technically neg. (a 9). But I had both a CD gene and a GI gene, which they cautioned would make any issues I might have with gluten that much worse. I figured it was worth avoiding that kind of potential health problem, and we could have no gluten in the house, anyway, so I'd just avoid it, too.

Well...a few months later, we started realizing that certain things had improved for me (no more numb feet!). And then we started noticing that I would have trouble when exposed to small amounts of gluten. But all of my symptoms are neurological, not digestive. I have since seen mention of a neurological form of CD. I'm guessing that I have that. I never did get a blood test, but I wonder if it would shown anything. I guess it's not surprising that the stool test showed very little, since my symptoms are neurological.

I have MS, and I had hoped that being GF would make it pretty inactive. But it seems there is at least one other trigger for me. And it seems to have set off more adrenal problems, too. MOLD! I hate the stuff. I was exposed in May, and I'm still not back to where I was before the exposure. It wasn't even what most would think of a bad mold exposure. My ILs were here visiting. We know that they come with moldy clothes and other personal items, so we provided them with clothes and other things (I'm very sensitive to mold, and have had fibromalgia-type pain as a reaction to their clothes before). They slept in our guest room. It was awful! It probably would have been better if they had bathed (their hair was super smelly of mold), but they are old Germans, and they wouldn't bathe (after all, they bathed before they came, right?







). I think they excreted it from their pores. The longer they were here, the worse their clothes smelled (they didn't change their clothes, either, even though we provided more than one change of clothes). The kicker was when I washed their bedding and clothes after they left. I haven't been the same since.









OK, now I'm rambling.


----------



## ChristieB

Question for everyone. How long did it take for you to get your test results back through Canary Club? I ordered the Diagnos-Techs panel. I just checked, and they received it last Wed. I'm impatient! Don't know why, since I don't have an appointment with the NP until Dec. 18, but I just want to know what the test says!! I guess I'm kind of worried that it will say everything's fine, and then I'll have to look elsewhere (but where?). It's hard to imagine, though, since I really fit the profiles I've seen. During the couple of weeks before testing (I stopped the adrenal gladular I had been taking, so the test would be more accurate), dh kept commenting on how surprised he'd be if my hormones weren't messed up, because I kept jumping at the slightest thing. Speaking of which, I've decided I'd be much more messed up if I lived in a city (we live waaay out). I was so startled by traffic that I started crying a couple of times.







It's worse when dh is driving than when I am. Not because of his driving, but because I'm not in control (I think).


----------



## Autumnlaughing

*ChristieB* and *MyLittleWonder*s - you sound just like me before getting the results of the test! Mine came back 9-1-1-1 - and I'd thought I was having a good day that day, too.

*crunchymama* - I'm having the same sorts of problems with my cycle - leutal phase is a little short, EWCM is MIA... Of course, now so are my eggs! I seem to be on a 70 day+ stress-delay. How can adrenal insufficiency NOT cause problems getting pregnant if stress can keep you from ovulating? (OK, I can think of several ways, but I'd love to know which one was actually TRUE) Honestly, I probably wouldn't be complaining about the 70+ day cycle if we weren't trying to get pregnant. OTOH, I REALLY think my body needed the time off cycle to heal up a bit - something about the hormones just before/during my period wreck HAVOC on my digestive system.. AND it builds the bank account, which makes it more likely that I can stay at home with said baby...


----------



## crunchy_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Autumnlaughing* 
*ChristieB*
*crunchymama* - I'm having the same sorts of problems with my cycle - leutal phase is a little short, EWCM is MIA... Of course, now so are my eggs! I seem to be on a 70 day+ stress-delay. How can adrenal insufficiency NOT cause problems getting pregnant if stress can keep you from ovulating? (OK, I can think of several ways, but I'd love to know which one was actually TRUE) Honestly, I probably wouldn't be complaining about the 70+ day cycle if we weren't trying to get pregnant. OTOH, I REALLY think my body needed the time off cycle to heal up a bit - something about the hormones just before/during my period wreck HAVOC on my digestive system.. AND it builds the bank account, which makes it more likely that I can stay at home with said baby...

I was reading in my Fertility, Cycles, and Nutrition book last night about this. It seems a lot of the recommendations are the same though. Eat salt, vit C., vit E, cal, mag, iodine, B vitamins, and vit A and D. I was just wondering about the iodine as I have some iodoral in the frig. I think I will try to take a half a pill and go from there. She also recommends the Optivite vitamins- which coincidentally I seen the Dr. Abraham that formulated the vitamins research just talked aobut on the Iodine thread in TF. I took the vitamins for a long time and did notice they helped my cycle. I think some forms of the vitamins are not the best- at least not last I had them- I am thinking the vit A and D were not from optimal sources, nor the C. I know another thing that helped me in the past as well was making sure my room was completely dark. Since we have moved back home I don't have shades , so I will be getting those as well. She also talked about moderate exercise as well. I know though that I am not up for exercise yet and I refuse to push my body anymore. I really do want to exercise, but I want to wait until my body is ready.

I would surmise that a lot of mine is due to a progesterone deficiency which is caused by the nursing. I know when I got pregnant last time I felt great. I was reading in the adrenal article and it talked about improvement in symptoms in the last trimester due to the baby's adrenal gland taking over, for me though the improvement was my whole pregnancy. If it wasn't for the insomnia it would have been perfect.

Oh, and speaking of insomnia- I do have another thought on that. I have noticed that mine is worse when I take in my intolerances- namely milk and gluten= it seems perhaps chocolate as well. I have noticed this in the kids as well.


----------



## kdegroo

Hi all,

I'm new to this thread and have read through much of it in the last 24 hours.

Just to introduce myself, I have a 2 year old daughter and became VERY hypothyroid after her birth (TSH of 117 about 8 months postpartum). I ate terribly during my pregnancy because all I could stomach was sweet... hence, adrenal burnout, too.

I've been on Armour for about 8 months after searching high and low for someone who would prescribe it rather than Synthroid. I feel much better, but not myself yet. Oh, and I have been diagnosed with HASHIMOTO's, and although my TSH is around 1, I still have thyroid antibodies.

I know I should avoid sugar and gluten, and do a pretty good job of it... usefully.









Lately I have been so, so impatient and full of rage. My poor daughter isn't getting the mother she deserves and that I want to be. Does anyone else have these issues??

I am TTC #2. Any thoughts on is this is ok/safe/a really bad idea? I'm kind of thinking that if my body can handle a pregnancy it will know it, but maybe that is a silly course of action.

I'm so glad I'm not alone and that I found this thread. Yet, I'm so sorry you are going through this too! If anyone with similar concerns/medical histories would like to chat more, please PM me. Anyone in the Cincinnati area?


----------



## Panserbjorne

sorry, mama. I think trying to conceive when your body is already stressed and your health is compromised is not a great idea. I am not in your shoes however. But, since you asked, that's my answer. A body in suboptimal condition cannot properly nourish a baby. It's best to get yourself to a good place before you try.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Kate,
I completely forgot to point you to a couple of resources on the thyroid thread. The most important one, imo, is ithyroid.com which provides information on important supplements to take if you have a thyroid problem, including selenium which has been shown to decrease antibody counts.
Also, you may want to check out this site for some incredible information on both the adrenals and thyroid. It can be overwhelming at first though, be forewarned.
I strongly suggest that you find a good ND if you don't have one already and get on adrenal support if you're not already.


----------



## applecore

Those of you taking cod liver oil, what brand and how much? I am taking the Blue Ice CLO with butter oil pre-mixed. The suggested dosage is 1ml per day, and I wonder if that is enough to be used therapeutically. I would be willing to take more if I knew it would be really beneficial, but since it's SO expensive, I want to make sure that I need to first.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *applecore* 
Those of you taking cod liver oil, what brand and how much? I am taking the Blue Ice CLO with butter oil pre-mixed. The suggested dosage is 1ml per day, and I wonder if that is enough to be used therapeutically. I would be willing to take more if I knew it would be really beneficial, but since it's SO expensive, I want to make sure that I need to first.

We use Kirkman Labs lemon/lime flavor.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
sorry, mama. I think trying to conceive when your body is already stressed and your health is compromised is not a great idea. I am not in your shoes however. But, since you asked, that's my answer. A body in suboptimal condition cannot properly nourish a baby. It's best to get yourself to a good place before you try.









:

Pat


----------



## kdegroo

More questions:

What is there a difference for Thyroid/ AF between CLO and a blended Fish Oil/DHA supplement?

What are some favorite ways to prepare "organ meats"? I've been doing the celtic sea salt for other reasons lately, but want to give this ago. I am much more comfortable cooking veggies. What did you eat today? Does sausage (from a local place that doesn't use fillers or preservatives-- or pastured meat)?

Happy healing! I'm feeling hopeful today. I haven't had sugar or gluten in a few days...


----------



## crunchy_mama

I felt pretty good yesterday, but still just tired. It wasn't a bs thing, but just tired. What the hell is supposed to give my energy back. I am sleeping ok at night. I have eliminated stress wherever I can. I am balancing my meals and eating often to help w/ the hypoglycemia. I am taking supplements out the wazoo.

my current supplements are:
SA (w/ bioflavonoids)- 1 t - 3x a day
calcium and minerals- including zinc, selenium etc etc
B100 Complex- I took 2 of those yesterday 1 at breakfast and 1 at lunch- which may have helped give me a bit more energy- but still was just wore out
iodine- 1/2 of a iodoral
hvclo= 1/2 t.
mag (calm) in the evening before bed
vit E

urgh..... I am tired of being tired.

Kate I wanted to respond to your questions. I am a newbie lurking around here. So, no expert at all. I do the majority of our meats pastured, but when I cannot get that I settle for as clean as possible- no hormones, antibiotics- msg etc etc.

what I am eating:
breakfast 8 am: baked sweet potato , walnuts, cinnamon and 4 oz of meat- had me some good sausage , but I ran out- yesterday I just had ham- from the store, but anti- hormone-nitrate free and all of my other allergens

green juice- 1 bunch kale, 1/2 bunch celery, 1/3 bunch parsley, 1 beet, 1 lemon

-- this breakfast works really well at keeping my blood sugar level
snack 11am= some nuts and veggies

lunch12:30- leftover salmon and mashed potatoes (made w/ just sea salt and some coconut oil)

afternoon snack1:30- smoothie/icecream- can of coconut milk, a couple frozen strawberries, vanilla(homemade), walnuts, and cocoa nibs- I had almost the entirety of this- and it actually worked to keep my bs from tanking- which is a huge feat.

late afternoon snack3:30(we were having a late dinner- so I needed tide myself over)- about 2 oz of ham and a handful of corn tortilla chips

supper7pm- plain grilled shrimp, corn and potatoes (we were eating out so I had very,v ery, very limited options- it was that or a salad w/ no dressing).


----------



## Brookesmom

Interesting! My dad has diabetes too, and I have AF and hypoglycemia, although it's gotten a lot better since I'm eating more protein and less coffee in the morning.

I would love to see the results if you supplement with the below. I have the chronic muscle pain thing too! It could be from my hypothyroid but maybe not. Things get complicated.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 

I wonder how much our hypoglycemia (as AF sufferers) comes into play with future diabetes risk? I think that's why I find it interesting because I'm already doing the low card, little to none refined sugars thing.

.
.
.
How does this fit us?? I was doing a search for the 3 supplements that Dr. Sinatra recommends as the most powerful: CoQ10, L-carnitine & D-ribose & Chronic Fatigue came up.
I've spoken with my ND many times about my chronic muscle pain & he's talked about the same 3 supplements for mitochondrial dysfunction - which it turns out, a lot of chronic fatigue folks suffer from (chronic fatigue = adrenal fatigue, IMO.)
D-ribose helps with ENERGY, which we could all use, right?

I looked up each of the supplements in relation to chronic fatigue or adrenal fatigue & found a lot of promising information - see for yourselves!

Some of them (especially D-ribose) are expensive, but I've found vitacost to be a good source. The best form of CoQ10 is Q-Gel, which is absorbed 2-3 times better than other forms. I have a month's supple of all of these in my virtual shopping cart for my Dad & it's just under $100. I'd like to try this protocol out on myself for a few months to see how I feel. I wouldn't need to take as much as him since I don't have cardiovascular disease.


----------



## Panserbjorne

out of curiosity, how many with chronic pain have had vitamin D levels tested?


----------



## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
out of curiosity, how many with chronic pain have had vitamin D levels tested?

Hmmm, I never thought of that angle. We lived in NC, and I was diagnosed with fibro, lots of chronic pain, but we moved to the SW (AZ and then NM), and I haven't had it since. I thought it was the mold in NC, and absent out here. But I know I get more sun here, too (esp. when we first moved to AZ -- we were living in our van and using a shed, too, but mostly I was outside all day long). No vit. D levels from that time to go by, though. I do know that now, with supplementing fairly heavily (CLO and also vit. D) and getting sun over the summer, my levels are good, but not too high (55). Probably an indication that they were not optimal before.


----------



## Blooming

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
out of curiosity, how many with chronic pain have had vitamin D levels tested?

I have it was lowww. I was on a supplement for months. Tested again during the summer and it was good. I still have to watch though. I live in New England and get very little sun. My guess is it will drop again this winter.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brookesmom* 
I have the chronic muscle pain thing too!

It's so nice to have a comrade.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
out of curiosity, how many with chronic pain have had vitamin D levels tested?

My last test was in late January of 2007. It was a Quest test, 25 OH D, LC/MS/MS - which Mercola says is consistently 25-40% HIGHER than the actual number. My level was 37 ng/mL (total & D3) - D2 was <4 ng/mL.

I have a physical scheduled for 12/9 & am going to ask to have it run through LabCorp since they use the Liaison DiaSorin test.


----------



## Panserbjorne

interesting. Chronic pain is associated with vitamin D deficiency and I would think it would be prevalent in AF.


----------



## ChristieB

OK, I got my results today. The "Cortisol-DHEA Correlation" is a 7, Adrenal Fatigue. Shocking.









The numbers surprised me, though.

7:00-8:00 am 22 Normal (reference 13-24)
11:00-noon 3 Depressed (reference 5-10)
4:00-5:00 pm 4 Normal (reference 3-8)
11:00-midnight 1 Normal (reference 1-4)

Cortisol Burden 30 (reference 23-42)

DHEA 2 Depressed

The actual times of collection were 7:40 am, 12:15 pm, 5:20 pm, 11:50 pm (I had some trouble remembering about the collection







).

I am curious how this puts me at a 7. Overall, it's better than I thought. I see that I'm wasting my most productive time of the day by sleeping in.







I would obviously benefit by getting to bed earlier.









I'm wondering if things are better than they would be if I hadn't been taking adrenal glandular for several months before testing. I stopped for a couple of weeks before, but I imagine things were still skewed. I also take salt regularly, and have been for over a decade. If I don't , my bp is too low for me to function. I didn't take salt the day before or the day of testing, but I really couldn't avoid it for longer than that.

My hormones were:

Estradiol 11 (reference 7-20)
Progesterone 775 (reference 65-500)
Testosterone 9 (normal 8-20)

So what's with the progesterone??? Is it because I'm still nursing?

It seems like I've seen mention of a website where I can go and see what the results mean. But I can't remember which one, and I can't find mention of it now. Anyone know?? I have an appointment mid-Dec., but of course I'm curious to read anything I can meantime.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
interesting. Chronic pain is associated with vitamin D deficiency and I would think it would be prevalent in AF.

So you don't think mine is low enough to cause muscle pain?


----------



## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
So you don't think mine is low enough to cause muscle pain?

? I was not commenting on anyone's numbers either way, just clarifying why I was asking. Regardless, we cross posted. I actually hadn't seen your levels when I posted my comment. I hope you aren't upset.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
out of curiosity, how many with chronic pain have had vitamin D levels tested?

my vit d was at 12 in mayish


----------



## ChristieB

OK, I didn't read things right.







(Where was my brain?) I'm not a 7, but a 4 (right on the border with 7). I'm not sure I know what that means.


----------



## Autumnlaughing

I've got to weigh in with low vitamin D but no muscle pain. Unless you count abdominal pain, and I blame that on IBS or maybe endo (Mom's sisters have problems with endo - I do not have a diagnosis of it)

Back before I was taking all this magnesium I had random stabbing pains that would go on for a few minutes and then go away, but I haven't had one of those in months -maybe over a year.

(I'm feeling pretty good this week. I'm hoping it's the pregnenolone + not that I skipped BOTH bellydance classes this week...)


----------



## LoisLane

My mom's health has been declining in the last few years and none of her doctors seem to talk to each other or look at the big picture. But I am wondering if she might have AF -- a lot of things seem to fit.

* hypo?thyroid problems -- been on synthroid since the 80s
* recently dx with gluten intolerance
* extremely low Vit. D (despite being tested right after returning from a month in Hawaii where she spent ALL DAY in the sun)
* occasional severe anemia -- has had to have two platelet transfusions in the last couple of years
* bad gout (arthritis) in her big toes and carpel tunnel in her wrists
* early hearing loss
* times of extreme fatigue - HAS to nap -- but other times of manic work (she is def. a Type A personality).
* LOVES sugar
* difficult time losing weight

She is becoming more open to alternative treatments -- she is VERY frustrated that all of these things are going wrong, but no one cares to see why -- just give treatment to deal with the immed. problem.

If she does have AF, should she talk to a naturopath? Is that a good place to start? What else can I suggest to her without sounding like I am trying to solve her problems (we have had issues...)

And I am a bit worried about myself -- I get sick eating MSG, and have noticed the beginning of hearing loss... if I have a tendency toward this, are there things I can do to support my system to prevent getting it? (does that make sense?)

FWIW, my mom thinks my grandma (her mom) had gluten intolerance. She also had severe and early hearing loss and arthritis. Is all of this related?

Thanks to anyone who might have some insight.

Lisa


----------



## crunchy_mama

Lisa- no expert here- but I would wonder how many of her issues will resolve now that she is gluten free. I don't know a lot about the adrenal aspect and the thyroid just trying to figure that out myself.

I am wondering how much magnesium everyone is taking. I was reading in my Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition last night and it was discussing magnesium and how w/ cycle problems(pms- luteul inadequacy-scant or prolonged mucus- etc etc) that a lot of times the ratio of magnesium to calcium needs to be switched ie 2x as much magnesium as calcium. Also, in a section about hypoglycemia it discussed magnesium as a help as well. It is odd as I was thinking that I was not getting enough end as I was tending towards constipation so I upped my dose last night and things were much better this am. So, I guess I will give it a shot.

I am also wondering does anyone know of a good site to find out toxcity levels of various vitamins and minerals. My book has some info, but I would like to compare it to other info. I have done some googling, but am wary of other sites especially when they follow too close to the FDA.


----------



## Panserbjorne

in a healthy person who is adequately nourished it should be 2:1, cal:mag. MOst people are terribly deficient in mag though so the ration can often be switched to being 2:1, mag:cal. Mag deficiency is so prevalent today. Just make certain you are taking it away from the calcium as they compete for uptake. Most supplements combine them which would be fine for a person who is balanced. When you aren't they compete and cal will always win.

I personally take around 700mg of mag a day in the form of citrate.


----------



## crunchy_mama

FF thanks for the response. I have been taking the calcium in the am and the mag in the PM (natural calm). I am getting confused though figuring out how much calcium I am actually getting it is a coral calcium and mineral supplement- it list 300 mg calcium and then at the bottom 1000 mg coral calcium separately. The calcium/mineral supp. has 200 mg of mag. as well. I have been making up the calm in the evening w/ 3 t- which is 625 mg, but the kids are always drinking as well, so I separated our doses last night so I could better measure it.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
in a healthy person who is adequately nourished it should be 2:1, cal:mag. MOst people are terribly deficient in mag though so the ration can often be switched to being 2:1, mag:cal. Mag deficiency is so prevalent today. Just make certain you are taking it away from the calcium as they compete for uptake. Most supplements combine them which would be fine for a person who is balanced. When you aren't they compete and cal will always win.

I personally take around 700mg of mag a day in the form of citrate.

Gah. I've been taking the combined supp all this time.







:


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 

I am also wondering does anyone know of a good site to find out toxcity levels of various vitamins and minerals.


100 Healthiest Foods site is an independent site. I like it as a resource: http://www.whfoods.com/nutrientstoc.php

Pat


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
? I was not commenting on anyone's numbers either way, just clarifying why I was asking. Regardless, we cross posted. I actually hadn't seen your levels when I posted my comment. I hope you aren't upset.

Yea, I'm pissed.









It looked like you had responded to my post since it was right after.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kdegroo* 
Lately I have been so, so impatient and full of rage. My poor daughter isn't getting the mother she deserves and that I want to be. Does anyone else have these issues??

I've discovered that rage, for me, is a pantothenic acid (B5) issue. And that vitamin C helps the B5 stretch further. I'm taking 1500mg of B5 right now, and am trying to get in several grams of vit C a day.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristieB* 
OK, I got my results today. The "Cortisol-DHEA Correlation" is a 7, Adrenal Fatigue. Shocking.









My hormones were:

Estradiol 11 (reference 7-20)
Progesterone 775 (reference 65-500)
Testosterone 9 (normal 8-20)

So what's with the progesterone??? Is it because I'm still nursing?

Progesterone is supposed to be low while you're nursing - it inhibits milk. Aside from other explanations like progesterone cream in the past, I wonder if it's a sign of resistance phase of adrenal fatigue? Maybe your adrenals are totally ramped up? I've also heard that your cortisol receptors can be affected in cortisol resistance, giving you symptoms of low cortisol when, in fact, it's high. Since this is a saliva test, not a serum test, I *think* it fits in with that scenario?

My estradiol is high and progesterone low while nursing. I recently read that prolactin(?) stimulates estrogen receptors, so it might be the same issue - the receptors are interfering with interpreting the results.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
I am also wondering does anyone know of a good site to find out toxcity levels of various vitamins and minerals. My book has some info, but I would like to compare it to other info. I have done some googling, but am wary of other sites especially when they follow too close to the FDA.

I have a copy of "Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease." It goes into a ton of depth on all the vitamins and minerals. It's still similar to the FDA, but actually focuses on the science rather than the population arguments. If you want me to look up somethig specific, I'd be happy to!


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I've discovered that rage, for me, is a pantothenic acid (B5) issue. And that vitamin C helps the B5 stretch further. I'm taking 1500mg of B5 right now, and am trying to get in several grams of vit C a day.

I thought I read somewhere that if you have a thyroid condition you should be careful with mega doses of Vitamin C. Can someone confirm and maybe give me a reference again?

ETA: Maybe it's just that you need to be careful of your copper levels when taking C?

Per ithyroid.com:

Quote:

Likewise copper metabolism is facilitated by vitamin C. Taking excessive amounts of vitamin C without also supplementing copper can deplete the body of copper. Replenishing the copper requires some, but not an excessive amount of vitamin C. It also requires the presence of all the other nutrients necessary for copper metabolism.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I thought I read somewhere that if you have a thyroid condition you should be careful with mega doses of Vitamin C. Can someone confirm and maybe give me a reference again?

ETA: Maybe it's just that you need to be careful of your copper levels when taking C?

Yeah, but he got to his conclusion by becoming hyperthyroid first, so he was copper deficient (among other things). Hypos are usually low in zinc, and I sorta think he was projecting a bit of the problems he ran into into a more general conclusion. Given all the good things that C does, with toxins and adrenal support, I still vote (like it matters) on taking quite a bit of C.

ETA: What I meant to say is, I think he had thyroid problems for very atypical reasons--it seems like his were completely dietary in origin, and so fixing them just with vitamins and minerals was appropriate. And I'm grateful as all get out to him, because the info on that site got me functional--I was in pretty bad shape. But most people need to look deeper than just nutrients, or rather for a deeper underlying reason their nutrient stores could be so messed up, and I think that in that context, C is probably helpful for a lot of things that are likely to be going on. So he views excess C as part of the reason for his copper deficiency, whereas my mom, for example, became hyper after years of undiagnosed hypo (and adrenal issues) related to her amalgam fillings, like me. Not that everyone who's hypo or hyper has mercury or other heavy metal issues, but toxins are more prevalent than his strictly dietary issue, and adrenal problems overlapping with thyroid are also not uncommon.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Thanks, Tanya. I knew you'd know but I couldn't remember if you hung out in this thread too or not.


----------



## tanyalynn

I hang out here to get motivation to take good care of myself. I am doing a pathetic job, and reading of the progress of others' is helping. Plus the useful info I get, esp for my husband, who is just different than me (thank you WhoMe!).


----------



## CathToria

I just received my labs for all of the blook work that my new endo ordered for me. His not basically said that all of my levels were within range. I'd like to look up somewhere on the web what the values mean, and possibly address the "higher" values with nutrition or supplements. Anyone have a good link where I can start researching? TIA


----------



## crunchy_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I have a copy of "Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease." It goes into a ton of depth on all the vitamins and minerals. It's still similar to the FDA, but actually focuses on the science rather than the population arguments. If you want me to look up somethig specific, I'd be happy to!

Thanks so much. Right now I am curious about the B vitamins. I bought the B100 complex (from Solgar). I got them this weekend and thought it would help give me energy. Well, I have tried taking 1 a day or even 2 a day and I am still dragging. My hypothesis is that it is the yeast as it is flaring again, but I want to make sure I am not taking too much. Or maybe instead of taking double on the 100s I need to just take 1 and supplement extra of the B6s or 12s. Although on second though reading your post about B5 and rage it makes me wonder if I could use more of that as well. Rage is a definite issue here.

I was reading the link provided by Pat (thank you!) it seems that toxicity seems pretty rare w/ the B vitamins.

the exact contents of the vitamin are this:
thiamin 100mg
riboflavin 100 mg
niacin 100 mg
vitamin b6 100 mg
folic acid 400 mcg
vitamin b12 100 mcg
biotin 100 mcg
panothenic acid 100mg
inositol 100 mg
choline 20 mg


----------



## crunchy_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Progesterone is supposed to be low while you're nursing - it inhibits milk. Aside from other explanations like progesterone cream in the past, I wonder if it's a sign of resistance phase of adrenal fatigue? Maybe your adrenals are totally ramped up? I've also heard that your cortisol receptors can be affected in cortisol resistance, giving you symptoms of low cortisol when, in fact, it's high. Since this is a saliva test, not a serum test, I *think* it fits in with that scenario?

My estradiol is high and progesterone low while nursing. I recently read that prolactin(?) stimulates estrogen receptors, so it might be the same issue - the receptors are interfering with interpreting the results.

What I wonder is can you work on the symptoms of low progesterone while still nursing w/o interfering w/ milk supply. Or do you just have to be miserable while you are nursing?


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
Or maybe instead of taking double on the 100s I need to just take 1 and supplement extra of the B6s or 12s. Although on second though reading your post about B5 and rage it makes me wonder if I could use more of that as well. Rage is a definite issue here.

While I'm looking them up, I'll say how I figured out my B vitamins:
The nutritionist suggested B5 (1000mg) and B6 (200mg). I tried them, and I wasn't angry and frustrated anymore, but I was racing and mentally felt awful, somthing was obviously wrong. He wasn't helpful: "well, try to take them, they're really important." My hypothesis was that it wasn't a toxicity issue, but a deficiency one. All the B's work together and need to be balanced properly. So I added a B-50, and suddenly the world was roses. It was AMAZING how much of a difference it made. If adding something new gives me symptoms, I figure I've shifted the balance and now have a new limiting factor. So I evaluate what deficiency these new symptoms look like.

Since then, I've mixed up the brands and the forms, and by accidentally forgetting/running out of one thing or another, I can tell you that for me:
Taking B5 and B2 at the same time causes B2 deficiency, especially with lots of vit A. (The B's compete for absorption, and B2 and A work together for your skin).
No B5, and I'm furious and yelling at dh
Low B5, and I wake up in the middle of the night and can't fall back to sleep
Too little B6, and I'm up in the night, with 'brilliant ideas'
No vit C, and I get nasty bruises. Some vit C and I do well, and the need for B5 decreases.
Not enough calcium, and I clench my teeth during the day
(TMI) Too much magnesium (relative to calcium) equals mushy poop. Too much calcium means small, clay-like poop.
And here's the kicker, if I eat oysters (high in zinc), then brazil nuts and liver pate taste way better (high in copper). Oysters also make me really happy in general right now.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
What I wonder is can you work on the symptoms of low progesterone while still nursing w/o interfering w/ milk supply. Or do you just have to be miserable while you are nursing?

Since progesterone is naturally low when nursing, it doesn't seem like that should cause symptoms. The hormones do all need to be balanced, however, so maybe something else is relatively high instead? Or if it's a receptor issue, maybe addressing that can make a difference.

http://www.advance-health.com/HypoAdrenal.html
Phosphatidyl Serine is supposed to be good at normalizing hormone receptors. You can get supplements derived from soy, or else it's naturally occurring in... brains. (Points for traditional foods and eating organ meats!)

I think iodine is supposed to help as well, but there are issues with iodine and nursing, so it's not a great place to start.


----------



## Panserbjorne

as stated it is very difficult to be B toxic...they are water soluble and that just doesnt' happen readily. What can and does happen way more often is imbalance.

OT-I miss oysters. We can't because of arsenic toxicity, but I really hope to be able to some day. They are a phenomenal source of zinc.


----------



## Theloose

My B vitamin notes, from "Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease," 10th edition (Shils et al):

Thiamin:
max oral absorption: 8-15mg/day
treat (mild) deficiency: 30mg/day
toxicity is rare, and is associated with sensitization to anaphylaxis

Riboflavin:
max oral absorption: 27mg/dose
therapeutic doses: up to 11mg/day
hypothyroid may cause deficiency with adequate intake
no known toxicity

Niacin:
100mg/day is fine
side effects of 1-3g/day: vasodilation, flushing, pruritus, blistering of the skin with brown pigmentation, nausea, vomiting, headache. Possible liver failure, may worsen insulin resistance.

Pantothenic Acid:
no adverse effects with up to 15g/day

B6:
over 200mg/day: sensory neuropathy - progressive sensory ataxia and profound lower limb impairment of position and vibration sense
recommended upper limit: 100mg.

Folic acid:
no mention of toxicity. (Isn't there an issue with metabolism of folic acid as compared to folate though?)

B12:
no mention of toxicity (The most absorbable form is supposed to be sublingual methylcolbamin)

Biotin:
no reports of adverse effects with up to 200mg orally

Inositol:
not in the book

Choline:
no mention of toxicity


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Too little B6, and I'm up in the night, with 'brilliant ideas'

Maybe I need to get less B6- I could use some brilliant ideas.


----------



## Panserbjorne

too little B-6 can be an issue in dream recall. We did an experiment supplementing with P5P (B-6) and you know you have decent stores when you can remember your dreams. I thin we've talked about this around here before.

WhoMe-I meant to ask you. That's one of my favorite texts. Are you getting a degree in nutrition? The 10th edition is fantastic.


----------



## crunchy_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Since progesterone is naturally low when nursing, it doesn't seem like that should cause symptoms. The hormones do all need to be balanced, however, so maybe something else is relatively high instead? Or if it's a receptor issue, maybe addressing that can make a difference.

http://www.advance-health.com/HypoAdrenal.html
Phosphatidyl Serine is supposed to be good at normalizing hormone receptors. You can get supplements derived from soy, or else it's naturally occurring in... brains. (Points for traditional foods and eating organ meats!)

I think iodine is supposed to help as well, but there are issues with iodine and nursing, so it's not a great place to start.

So, instead of low progrestone I should look at it as high estrogen perhaps. I had never heard of phosphatidyl serine before- interesting googling on this.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
too little B-6 can be an issue in dream recall. We did an experiment supplementing with P5P (B-6) and you know you have decent stores when you can remember your dreams. I thin we've talked about this around here before.

WhoMe-I meant to ask you. That's one of my favorite texts. Are you getting a degree in nutrition? The 10th edition is fantastic.

A nutrition degree is in the works... I'm still working on the prereq's, (and need to leave for class right now!) but I figure as long as I'm serious about this, I should go ahead and buy the books instead of spending hours looking it up at questionable and/or incomprehensible sites online


----------



## Panserbjorne

Well, you have to be serious to spend that kinda money. You are going to have a blast! Biochemistry is so much fun!!!







:


----------



## Blooming

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
too little B-6 can be an issue in dream recall. We did an experiment supplementing with P5P (B-6) and you know you have decent stores when you can remember your dreams. I thin we've talked about this around here before.

WhoMe-I meant to ask you. That's one of my favorite texts. Are you getting a degree in nutrition? The 10th edition is fantastic.

So I have to ask if a person remenbers their dreams to the point that it is disrupting their sleep, could they have too much B-6 somehow? If so would there be other negative side effects? Thinking out loud here, now off to google...


----------



## Panserbjorne

I don't know about that, but you can absolutely have too much-again the danger is imbalance. Neuropathy is an issue in this particular imbalance.


----------



## bluebell

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 

I think iodine is supposed to help as well, but there are issues with iodine and nursing, so it's not a great place to start.

oh no! i didn't know this - i just bought some of dr ron's iodine - was so expensive to get shipped from the usa so i specifically asked him if it was ok to take while nursing and he said yes! is this wrong advice? i have an older nursling (5) so its not so much these days but still i don't want to continue if its not a good thing.
whome can you explain abit more about what the issues with iodine and nursing are? thanks.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
too little B-6 can be an issue in dream recall. We did an experiment supplementing with P5P (B-6) and you know you have decent stores when you can remember your dreams. I thin we've talked about this around here before.

I must have missed that previously. Thanks for the refresher, firefaery.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluebell* 
oh no! i didn't know this - i just bought some of dr ron's iodine - was so expensive to get shipped from the usa so i specifically asked him if it was ok to take while nursing and he said yes! is this wrong advice? i have an older nursling (5) so its not so much these days but still i don't want to continue if its not a good thing.
whome can you explain abit more about what the issues with iodine and nursing are? thanks.

I *think* the issue may be that iodine "displaces" other halides (chlorine, bromine) so that they're free and get into the milk but could be wrong.


----------



## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Progesterone is supposed to be low while you're nursing - it inhibits milk. Aside from other explanations like progesterone cream in the past, I wonder if it's a sign of resistance phase of adrenal fatigue? Maybe your adrenals are totally ramped up? I've also heard that your cortisol receptors can be affected in cortisol resistance, giving you symptoms of low cortisol when, in fact, it's high. Since this is a saliva test, not a serum test, I *think* it fits in with that scenario?

My estradiol is high and progesterone low while nursing. I recently read that prolactin(?) stimulates estrogen receptors, so it might be the same issue - the receptors are interfering with interpreting the results.

Interesting. It makes me wonder how it is that I'm still making plenty of milk. Maybe that's why I'm not overproducing this time. Interesting thoughts re: receptors and resistance. It will be interesting to see what the NP says when I see her.


----------



## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I *think* the issue may be that iodine "displaces" other halides (chlorine, bromine) so that they're free and get into the milk but could be wrong.

That is the case, it is also thought to mobilize certain metals. I do not see this as being a huge issue and do take iodine while nursing. I think it's far more important to optimize my thyroid function and ensure that my baby's supply is stable. Iodine sufficiency can protect against halogens as well as heavy metals. I want my baby to have sufficient stores. There can be a detox (I did not experience this) but if it happens there are things you can do to protect the breastmilk...vitamin C, sea salt flushes and glutathione to start. I think that it's very important to start slow for MANY reasons, but from my perspective I don't worry about it.


----------



## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluebell* 
oh no! i didn't know this - i just bought some of dr ron's iodine - was so expensive to get shipped from the usa so i specifically asked him if it was ok to take while nursing and he said yes! is this wrong advice? i have an older nursling (5) so its not so much these days but still i don't want to continue if its not a good thing.
whome can you explain abit more about what the issues with iodine and nursing are? thanks.

I'm curious about this as well. I've been taking iodine for several yrs. now, since I can't tolerate any seafood (including sea salt). I've been on it since well before getting pg this time.

It seems like I had heard that when a person first starts taking it it could cause detox of other halides. But I've also read that iodine is important for breast tissue, and also the importance of iodine to babies and young children. I would think that it would be important for a nursing mother to be getting enough iodine. So maybe it's not so good to start while nursing, but it's OK if you were already on it???

I'd love to hear some more educated thoughts on this.


----------



## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
That is the case, it is also thought to mobilize certain metals. I do not see this as being a huge issue and do take iodine while nursing. I think it's far more important to optimize my thyroid function and ensure that my baby's supply is stable. Iodine sufficiency can protect against halogens as well as heavy metals. I want my baby to have sufficient stores. There can be a detox (I did not experience this) but if it happens there are things you can do to protect the breastmilk...vitamin C, sea salt flushes and glutathione to start. I think that it's very important to start slow for MANY reasons, but from my perspective I don't worry about it.

Sorry, I was posting so didn't see this. I didn't experience any detox, either. Thanks for the answer.


----------



## Panserbjorne

And yes. If you have already been on it (provided you are on correct amounts) then there should be no issue. It's the mobilization of halogens and metals that are the concern.

If you start up and take too much (for you-everyone will be different) it can push you into a hyperthyroid state or hashimotos. Like any of the minerals you need to be responsible. You can overdo it.

There is testing available for those that want it. It is necessary for thyroid function, mood regulation and breast tissue amongst other things. It was a biggie for me in handling anger (which I'm not very good at by nature.) I noticed with my loading dose that it made a huge difference and actually started before I got my results because it was such a dramatic change.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
http://www.advance-health.com/HypoAdrenal.html
Phosphatidyl Serine is supposed to be good at normalizing hormone receptors. You can get supplements derived from soy, or else it's naturally occurring in... brains. (Points for traditional foods and eating organ meats!)

This is what I've been taking for almost 2 years now (Seriphos), but my adrenal doc always says to only take it when I need it & that it's the need that he doesn't like to see - which I guess just means that he doesn't want me having adrenaline rushes. But I've often wondered if there's something about Phosphorylated Serine that interferes with or prevents healing since he always reminds me to take it only when needed...

It IS calming & I'd like to take it more often just to stay calm - but it's darned expensive!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
This is what I've been taking for almost 2 years now (Seriphos), but my adrenal doc always says to only take it when I need it & that it's the need that he doesn't like to see - which I guess just means that he doesn't want me having adrenaline rushes. But I've often wondered if there's something about Phosphorylated Serine that interferes with or prevents healing since he always reminds me to take it only when needed...

It IS calming & I'd like to take it more often just to stay calm - but it's darned expensive!

And since I'm so anti-soy, I'd like to find something else to take. There has to be something else that can have the same benefits without the drawbacks of being derived from soy.


----------



## raksmama

Hi, I am new to this thread and I have not had time yet to read all the posts.
This is all very interesting to me. I go to an environmental Doctor who uses Vega testing and according to that my adrenal glands are stressed.
He gave me something called Ribes Nigrum for it but other than that and avoiding the foods I am supposed to be sensitive to, he has not given me a particular diet. As I said before I have not read all the posts yet so please excuse me if this has been mentioned but do any of you know about Ribes Nigrum? and what do you think about Vega testing to see if you have adrenal fatigue?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
And since I'm so anti-soy, I'd like to find something else to take. There has to be something else that can have the same benefits without the drawbacks of being derived from soy.

Where does it say soy?? On my bottle of Seriphos it says, "Milk, Soy, Egg & Wheat Free."


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
And since I'm so anti-soy, I'd like to find something else to take. There has to be something else that can have the same benefits without the drawbacks of being derived from soy.

When I was researching, it said that most supplements were derived from soy lecithin. Brains are the real-food source that was mentioned.
and this site recommends egg yolks and liver as other sources of lecithin, so probable sources of phosphatidyl serine.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
When I was researching, it said that most supplements were derived from soy lecithin. Brains are the real-food source that was mentioned.
and this site recommends egg yolks and liver as other sources of lecithin, so probable sources of phosphatidyl serine.

Thanks. That's the problem with lecithen, it can be gotten from other sources, but because soy is cheaper, if an ingredient list says 'lecithin,' odds are it's soy.

And then, because they feed chickens soy, there have been studies showing the estrogen levels in eggs are are higher now.







:

So that leaves liver and brains.









*Metasequoia-*what brand do you buy?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 

*Metasequoia-*what brand do you buy?

The one in my post that you quoted, Seriphos.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
The one in my post that you quoted, Seriphos.

Oh, that's a brand!
















Now, on vitacost's website it says soy free, but on other websites it says it's derived from vegetable sources, which would seem to me to mean it probably comes from soy.









I've run into that with vitacost before, where it doesn't say soy on the site, but on the bottle it does. I wonder which is correct?

http://allnutri.com/pid1873/seriphos.aspx
http://store.agoodvitamin.com/inseadadsu10.html


----------



## bluebell

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
That is the case, it is also thought to mobilize certain metals. I do not see this as being a huge issue and do take iodine while nursing. I think it's far more important to optimize my thyroid function and ensure that my baby's supply is stable. Iodine sufficiency can protect against halogens as well as heavy metals. I want my baby to have sufficient stores. There can be a detox (I did not experience this) but if it happens there are things you can do to protect the breastmilk...vitamin C, sea salt flushes and glutathione to start. I think that it's very important to start slow for MANY reasons, but from my perspective I don't worry about it.

firefaery, can you recomend a good vit c and glutathione suppliment to take?
i'm going to continue to take the iodine but i'd like to take these too but its so confusing looking at all the suppliments i don't know which one is any good or not. what is a seasalt flush?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Oh, that's a brand!
















Now, on vitacost's website it says soy free, but on other websites it says it's derived from vegetable sources, which would seem to me to mean it probably comes from soy.









I've run into that with vitacost before, where it doesn't say soy on the site, but on the bottle it does. I wonder which is correct?

http://allnutri.com/pid1873/seriphos.aspx
http://store.agoodvitamin.com/inseadadsu10.html

Well, since my bottle of it says it's free of soy, I'm gonna trust it. My ND is a member of the Price-Pottenger Foundation & is aware of the dangers of soy & spends a great deal of time researching the supplements that Clymer carries.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Well, since my bottle of it says it's free of soy, I'm gonna trust it. My ND is a member of the Price-Pottenger Foundation & is aware of the dangers of soy & spends a great deal of time researching the supplements that Clymer carries.

Do you have contact information for the company on it? This is really bugging me after a discussion about gluten-free food that really wasn't gluten free.







: I'd like to know what another vegetable source _is, since the sources everyone mentioned above were all animal except for soy.







_


----------



## Shawnamarie

Hey ladies,

My latest update is that my doctor had me do two blood tests on Friday... one at 8am and one at 4pm to test cortisol levels. She said she thought it was more stable than the saliva one. In the future we may do the 24 urine one.

Hopefully I'll get the results soon. Has anyone else done this form of testing for cortisol?

Thanks!
Shawna


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Do you have contact information for the company on it? This is really bugging me after a discussion about gluten-free food that really wasn't gluten free.







: I'd like to know what another vegetable source _is, since the sources everyone mentioned above were all animal except for soy.







_

The only contact info on the bottle is the website: interplexus.com


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
The only contact info on the bottle is the website: interplexus.com

thanks, that works


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Well, it seems our (dh and mine) ASI test results are in, but we can't get to the ND's until Friday (she only works M, W, F, and her only opening tomorrow was while dh was at work). I am very curious about the results. I hope they give us some answers. For now, though, I am just continuing with all the supplements she has me taking, which I do think even by themselves, are helping me feel better (multi, b-complex, b12, vit. d, clo, vit. c, and a stress-reducing herbal blend).

On a side note, does anyone ever experience dizziness? I have thought that it was because of overly congested sinuses (my sinuses are always congested, but sometimes much more than normal), but then I started wondering if the dizziness feeling was due to something connected with AF.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
On a side note, does anyone ever experience dizziness? I have thought that it was because of overly congested sinuses (my sinuses are always congested, but sometimes much more than normal), but then I started wondering if the dizziness feeling was due to something connected with AF.

I've been wondering the same thing.


----------



## MissyH

I definately experience dizziness. That was the reason I went to the naturopath to begin with. I was feeling better, my hypoglycemia was under control, but I was dizzy almost constantly. My ND put me on low dose hydrocortisone and that really helped. I still get dizzy if I don't sleep enough.


----------



## Metasequoia

Definitely dizzy. I can tell if I've overdone it if I experience a lot of dizziness. Before I started treatment, I was dizzy every time I stood up. After Ds was born, I got so dizzy at the post office, I couldn't drive home. After a while of treatment, the dizziness seemed to recede quite a bit. I've had a lot of recent stress & have noticed that I've been dizzy more frequently & more severely. It has to do with your blood pressure. At my last adrenal appt., my bp was awful & as I stood up for my ND to take my bp, I had a terrible headrush. I can always tell if my bp reading is going to be good or bad depending on the headrush or lack thereof.


----------



## Theloose

On dizziness in adrenal fatigue:

Cortisol gets made at the cost of the other adrenal hormones. One of those hormones is aldosterone, which is responsible for regulating sodium/potassium balance and blood pressure. When it's low, you lose sodium quickly and then your blood pressure drops. When you're blood pressure is low, one symptom can be dizziness, especially on standing up.

So try eating salt? (and avoiding potassium)


----------



## MissyH

Yes, I belong to the adrenal fatigue yahoo group and they suggest drinking sea salt in water.

Is anyone else taking hydrocortisone? Was anyone on it and went off? I'm wondering if it was the wisest decision to go on it in the first place. I feel like I will never be able to get off of it, even though I'm not taking much.


----------



## krankedyann

I also use salt to deal with the low aldosterone. For me, the difference is night and day, and it also affects my endurance. Now, if I get a headrush, I immediately go drink down some salt water.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Cortisol gets made at the cost of the other adrenal hormones. One of those hormones is aldosterone, which is responsible for regulating sodium/potassium balance and blood pressure. When it's low, you lose sodium quickly and then your blood pressure drops. When you're blood pressure is low, one symptom can be dizziness, especially on standing up.

So, for folks with adrenal problems but _without_ low blood pressure, does that mean their aldosterone is okay, and their bodies are just compensating in atypical ways? Or is it a completely different mechanism likely making their blood pressure high (or high-normal, mostly I mean not low like most of us) and their aldosterone is still low? And would it follow, then, that they are not as sensitive to potassium as the rest of us?

I don't expect you to really know, but if you have a guess, I'm all ears.


----------



## Pookietooth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Do you have contact information for the company on it? This is really bugging me after a discussion about gluten-free food that really wasn't gluten free.







: I'd like to know what another vegetable source _is, since the sources everyone mentioned above were all animal except for soy.







_

What foods are not gluten free that say they are?


----------



## Pookietooth

Where would you get brains, anyway? I haven't seen them for sale around here. They are popular in the South, where I was born. I remember the valedictorian of the class ahead of me said one of her favorite foods was brains & eggs. At the time I was a vegetarian and totally grossed out, but now I wonder if that's how she got to be so smart.








Interestingly enough, I had a test for amino acids, and was deficient in serine.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
What foods are not gluten free that say they are?

I did a search and I can't find the thread now.







: Another MDC mom was complaining she bought something that was supposed to be gluten free and her dc reacted to it, and when she called the company there was wheat flour in it that wasn't declared on the label.







:

I just went through my history back to the 17th and can't find the thread.







I would have thought it would have been under allergies, but I couldn't find it there either.


----------



## CathToria

I wanted to add in on the salt conversation.

I suspect that I have some kind of andrenal/hormonal problems due to my weight gain/slow loss, heavy periods and fatigue. Other than being hypothyroid and now taking Armour for it, all of my blood tests are showing in normal range. I've always had normal/low BP.

For teh past 11 months, I have been working out a lot in an effort to lose this weight. I work out 45-120 minutes a day, 4-6 days a week. (have lost 30 slow pounds but I have burned enough calories to lose 90, LOL). After working out sometimes, I was having days with extreme fatigue. I thought that I was getting my HR up too high and 'bonking". So I started keeping my workouts low intensity, weight loss slowed, but I still felt yucky.

My brother is an iron man triathlete. he recommended buffered salt tabes to me, as they help him a lot. I never found the salt tablets, but I now keep a can of sea salt for my workouts. I either dissolve it in water, or if I get to teh car right after or in teh middle of a workout, I eat the rocks out of my hand.

I am amazed at the difference in how I feel, and I can feel it within minutes. I also am very impressed with my body and how the salt will taste yummy for a few seconds, and when it starts tasting too salty, I assume that my body has had enough and I spit it out/stop eating.

I'm lurrking for brand names or types of salt that I shoudl be looking for to get a wide range of minerals (is it minerals that I am after???). The last time I was at teh HFS, I saw a block and grater of salt. woudl that be teh best kind? it was not a white block, but more amber color. it was super expensive, but I woudl assume that it woudl last a long time. input??? TIA


----------



## Metasequoia

Celtic sea salt is supposedly "the best" & Redmond's Real Salt is right behind - there are probably other smallscale brands that may be as beneficial, but as far as I know, Celtic Sea Salt is top of the line.

Grain & Salt Society - they have a great newsletter...


----------



## Metasequoia

Oh, and CathToria - have you read Gary Taubes' Good Calories, Bad Calories? GREAT book. It's quite scientific, but Taubes really delves into the calorie & fat myths & he talks about carbs as the culprit for many modern diseases & weight gain.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
So, for folks with adrenal problems but _without_ low blood pressure, does that mean their aldosterone is okay, and their bodies are just compensating in atypical ways? Or is it a completely different mechanism likely making their blood pressure high (or high-normal, mostly I mean not low like most of us) and their aldosterone is still low? And would it follow, then, that they are not as sensitive to potassium as the rest of us?

I don't expect you to really know, but if you have a guess, I'm all ears.

You pose a good question, Tanya.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
So, for folks with adrenal problems but _without_ low blood pressure, does that mean their aldosterone is okay, and their bodies are just compensating in atypical ways? Or is it a completely different mechanism likely making their blood pressure high (or high-normal, mostly I mean not low like most of us) and their aldosterone is still low? And would it follow, then, that they are not as sensitive to potassium as the rest of us?

I don't expect you to really know, but if you have a guess, I'm all ears.

Totally just a guess









There are a bunch of different things that regulate blood pressure besides aldosterone, the effects of aldosterone are just easier to control with diet (more salt=higher blood pressure, less salt=lower blood pressure).

If I were guessing whether someone had an aldosterone issue or not, I'd look at other things that aldosterone regulate - including the sensitivity of sodium taste receptors







So if you crave salt, you need it to get the minerals in the right balance in your blood.

However, if there's something else regulating the blood pressure higher that's balancing the lowering effect of low aldosterone, then correcting the aldosterone might create a more dangerous situation of too-high blood pressure.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CathToria* 
I'm lurrking for brand names or types of salt that I shoudl be looking for to get a wide range of minerals (is it minerals that I am after???).

Strange as it sounds, you actually want the sodium. When adrenals are weak, our bodies don't hold onto sodium properly, so we pee out most of what we consume. But by consuming more, we hold onto more.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Totally just a guess









There are a bunch of different things that regulate blood pressure besides aldosterone, the effects of aldosterone are just easier to control with diet (more salt=higher blood pressure, less salt=lower blood pressure).

If I were guessing whether someone had an aldosterone issue or not, I'd look at other things that aldosterone regulate - including the sensitivity of sodium taste receptors







So if you crave salt, you need it to get the minerals in the right balance in your blood.

However, if there's something else regulating the blood pressure higher that's balancing the lowering effect of low aldosterone, then correcting the aldosterone might create a more dangerous situation of too-high blood pressure.

Thx, need to think more after Thanksgiving (5d away from home), as always the weird questions are about my husband. He's a puzzle to me.


----------



## msjisabel

Hey I was just diagnosed with premature ovarian failure due to my levels of estrogen and FSH. Estrogen was <20 and FSH 116. Irregular periods, hot flashes moodiness were some of my other symptoms. My ob/gyn told me that my ovaries were failing and my RE told me I had to do HRT. I was not ready to accept that as my diagnoses. It just did not feel right to me. So I started doing research online about natural therapies for HRT and found a chiro who is also certified in acupuncture and nutrition talking about adrenal fatigue on his website.

When I read the symptoms I knew that adrenal fatigue sounded more like what I was going through. So I have already had one consultation with this Dr. They are doing some testing on me, tissue analysis and the ASI. I think that he thinks I have heavy metal poisoning and adrenal insufficiency. I hope that this chiro can fix me and so I am not stuck taking synthetic hormones for the rest of my life.

I will try to keep everyone posted on my treatment.

Oh yeah anyone getting acupuncture for this too? Also what kind of supplements are rx for this?


----------



## Panserbjorne

are you going to be tested for metals? If so I'd wait on the zinc.


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
What foods are not gluten free that say they are?

There was just an article in the Chicago Tribune on how some Whole Foods brands that claimed to be GF or nut-free were tested and found not to be. It happens.


----------



## Pookietooth

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
There was just an article in the Chicago Tribune on how some Whole Foods brands that claimed to be GF or nut-free were tested and found not to be. It happens.

That's atrocious. Well, just goes to show you never know with those big companies.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Well, we got our results today. Dh and I are almost identical (no surprise there really, though he was a bit worse off than I).

We both have depressed free rhythm cortisol in morning and noon and elevated at midnight. Our DHEA levels are ok, but we are both in zone 5 - Non-adaptive, Low Reserve on the graph.

We are also both hypoglycemic (I already knew that about myself), have a depressed mucosal SIgA, and gluten intolerant (already knew that too and we already keep GF for the entire family).

So, we are doing the multi vit/min, b-complex, b12, vit. d, vit. c, clo, magnesium, licorice, DHEA (for me), phosphatidylserine and adrenevive. And she wants us to retest in about 4-6 months.

This weekend I plan on retooling our diet (which honestly was already pretty good, but not eating frequently enough and making sure we get protein with every meal/snack) and re-writing our supplement schedule.







I am happy that we finally have an answer, and feel very hopeful that we will finally start feeling better.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Did I kill the thread?


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Did I kill the thread?









I think we all got busy with Thanksgiving. I did a 13hr road trip each direction (which is good, thought it would take 15hrs!).








on both of you dealing with adrenal problems. We are too, we've had hard times when we've both been feeling bad. It's hard when neither of us is feeling good--we tend to feel bad and feed into a negative cycle off each other. This fall I think I've turned a corner and am really starting to see a lot of positives (not really with my adrenals, they're still not great, but other stuff) and so I finally have the extra energy to baby him. He deserves it, he's kept us going these past few years. Take care of yourself as much as you can, really try to relax and focus on being happy. I had a hard time with that, but this fall I've really started seeing the benefits.


----------



## kdegroo

Based on my research (largely here) I've added more B vitamins and Magnesium with REALLY great results. Anger: gone. Joy: feeling it for the first time in years. Thank you mamas for giving me back my life!!!

Two questions, though:

-We are TTC #2 and I am 15 DPO with no signs of AF, but negative PTs. Are the all extra B's making my LP crazy long? I'm excited I might be pregnant, but I don't want to get my hopes up. Just for the record, I didn't get positive POAS results with my daughter for a long time for some reason.

-I like taking Magnisium at night because it helps me sleep oh so well. How do I know I don't need some Ca, too?


----------



## Panserbjorne

I use mag citrate to address this specifically. Basically if the mag gives you lose stools it's time to up the calcium. I like Natural Vitality and what I have people do is take the cal/mag in the am and the NaturalCalm (mag) at night. If you hit the 3 tsp of mag that is the rec'd dosage and have loose stools as a result you need more calcium. If you hit the 3 tsp with no issue then you likely have a good amount of calcium.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
If you hit the 3 tsp of mag that is the rec'd dosage and have loose stools as a result you need more mag. If you hit the 3 tsp with no issue then you likely have a good amount of calcium.

Do you mean you need more *calcium*, in the first sentence?

Pat


----------



## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Do you mean you need more *calcium*, in the first sentence?

Pat









fixed. Thanks for looking out.


----------



## msjisabel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
are you going to be tested for metals? If so I'd wait on the zinc.

Yeah I am getting tested for metals.


----------



## lucky_mia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *msjisabel* 
Hey I was just diagnosed with premature ovarian failure due to my levels of estrogen and FSH. Estrogen was <20 and FSH 116. Irregular periods, hot flashes moodiness were some of my other symptoms. My ob/gyn told me that my ovaries were failing and my RE told me I had to do HRT. I was not ready to accept that as my diagnoses. It just did not feel right to me. So I started doing research online about natural therapies for HRT and found a chiro who is also certified in acupuncture and nutrition talking about adrenal fatigue on his website.

When I read the symptoms I knew that adrenal fatigue sounded more like what I was going through. So I have already had one consultation with this Dr. They are doing some testing on me, tissue analysis and the ASI. I think that he thinks I have heavy metal poisoning and adrenal insufficiency. I hope that this chiro can fix me and so I am not stuck taking synthetic hormones for the rest of my life.

I will try to keep everyone posted on my treatment.

Oh yeah anyone getting acupuncture for this too? Also what kind of supplements are rx for this?

I also have premature ovarian failure that was diagnoed in my early 20's. I then went on to get hypothyroidism and now adrenal insuffciency/Addison's. Women with POF are 300 times more likely to get Addison's. Unforortunately, I have had to resort to HRT, Synthroid and now Prendisone just to function and live. I hope you get good results with your the treatment course you choose.


----------



## Pookietooth

If you take one teaspoon of natural vitality and it gives you the runs, does it mean you need more calcium? I don't take much calcium and don't do dairy, so I guess I probably do need more.


----------



## tolovemercy

Okay...I'm jumping in here. I've read bits and pieces of this thread, but with two babes around here it's hard to find the time to catch up.

So. Here's my deal. I've been battling yeast for months and months. I actually was sitting at the computer and nursing one day when I casually clicked on this thread and realized that I could quite well be a candidate for AF.

I have a constant ache in my back--above my kidneys, below the ribcage. Been asking DH to rub it for months. I'm just now realizing that those are probably my adrenal glands. No?

My hair is falling out in handfuls. Luckily, I have a good supply. For now...

I crave salt like it's going out of style. Crazy cravings. Like, I want to eat a spoonful of coarse kosher salt.

I've been losing tons of weight, as a result of dieting for yeast issues. I have no doubt that all the stressing I've done over that is contributing to this significantly. But I feel like they're feeding one another--I deplete my body with stress, and it can't heal. It's a vicious circle.

I don't know where to begin. I'm feeling battle-weary, constantly at war with and within my own body. Can anyone point me in the right direction?


----------



## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
If you take one teaspoon of natural vitality and it gives you the runs, does it mean you need more calcium? I don't take much calcium and don't do dairy, so I guess I probably do need more.

I would try it!


----------



## msjisabel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tolovemercy* 
Okay...I'm jumping in here. I've read bits and pieces of this thread, but with two babes around here it's hard to find the time to catch up.

So. Here's my deal. I've been battling yeast for months and months. I actually was sitting at the computer and nursing one day when I casually clicked on this thread and realized that I could quite well be a candidate for AF.

I have a constant ache in my back--above my kidneys, below the ribcage. Been asking DH to rub it for months. I'm just now realizing that those are probably my adrenal glands. No?

My hair is falling out in handfuls. Luckily, I have a good supply. For now...

I crave salt like it's going out of style. Crazy cravings. Like, I want to eat a spoonful of coarse kosher salt.

I've been losing tons of weight, as a result of dieting for yeast issues. I have no doubt that all the stressing I've done over that is contributing to this significantly. But I feel like they're feeding one another--I deplete my body with stress, and it can't heal. It's a vicious circle.

I don't know where to begin. I'm feeling battle-weary, constantly at war with and within my own body. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Wow! Not a doctor or anything but your symptoms sound like what I used to feel like in the beginning of when I probably started adrenal fatigue, except I craved sugar like crazy. I would wake up in the morning and have chocolate for breakfast. Your symptoms sound like the ones that I have read about for adrenal fatigue too. Are you having any hot flashes?

I have not yet received my lab results yet to confirm adrenal fatigue but in 2 wks I find out.

If you are concerned about it, I would do some research on the doctors that are familiar with treating and recognizing adrenal fatigue.

I came by my chiro's website searching for natural health, because I was recently diagnosed with Premature ovarian failure and I was not ready to start HRT. Then I came by his website talking about adrenal fatigue by chance and started seeing him. I am not ready to say that my ovaries are failing for no reason at all. My doctors say there is no known cause and no cure. I think there is an imbalance in my body causing this. I think this imbalance has caused my ovaries to fail. I have only visited my chiro with him once but we are awaiting results and go from there.

anyways a naturopath or somebody that is familiar with holistic approach probably will be able to help you. I just googled it online, of course you have to be careful who you choose.

also I hear that the saliva test is the most accurate way of determining the correct cortisol levels in your body. not by blood test.


----------



## msjisabel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
I also have premature ovarian failure that was diagnoed in my early 20's. I then went on to get hypothyroidism and now adrenal insuffciency/Addison's. Women with POF are 300 times more likely to get Addison's. Unforortunately, I have had to resort to HRT, Synthroid and now Prendisone just to function and live. I hope you get good results with your the treatment course you choose.

Thank you.


----------



## Theloose

Okay, so I've posted a bunch before about how much a difference it makes when I take pantothenic acid (and other b vitamins/adrenal nutrients).

Pantothenic acid is a precursor to coenzyme A, which I don't know much about yet, but is important for the adrenals. Salicylates react with coenzyme A, preventing your body from recycling it - which effectively increases your requirement.

Biotin is also involved with coenzyme A, and so if you're supplementing with lots of pantothenic acid, you should likely supplement with biotin as well. Biotin deficiency can cause cradle cap - which dd has and has been getting worse since we brought back eggs. Which happened right after I started supplementing with pantothenic acid.

And salicylates promote the release of insulin, which leads to hypoglycemia... I'm starting to think of sals as the cause of adrenal fatigue, at least for me.

I'm about to try the FAILSAFE diet. Anyone here failsafe? I'll post with any progress...


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I'm about to try the FAILSAFE diet. Anyone here failsafe? I'll post with any progress...

I don't think she's on this thread, but Menomena from the Allergies forum just started doing FAILSAFE. Here's her blog with a few recipes, which I'm sure she'll be adding to soon. There aren't many, but it's something.


----------



## Theloose

woah. woah. WOAH. WOW.

Did you know that salicylate sensitivity can CAUSE adrenal fatigue? And that most traditional diets were low in salicylates? Especially the northern european diets all my ancestors ate? So that for people like me, who have had symptoms of adrenal fatigue pretty much their entire lives, it could all be because of *eating too many fruits and veggies*!?!?

What wisdom do all those kids who refuse to eat their vegetables have? And why are we completely ignoring it!?






















:
















Sals actually stimulate the adrenals, and there's a bunch of research on the topic. Google 'salicylate adrenal' I dare you. Anyone more curious about failsafe?


----------



## Panserbjorne

yup. have you read any of Steiner's work on this? The children and veggies aspect, I mean? It's pretty interesting stuff. I think if you google veggies and fruits + anthroposophical medicine you will be able to find some of it.

I don't know if you have ever heard our story but my kids went way downhill (my dd especially) on a high veggie diet. When I put in a TON of cholesterol and animal products in general she came right back.


----------



## Theloose

I haven't turned anything relevant up yet, but I am finding some pretty interesting stuff... Fun, more crazy topics to fill up my head







Just in time, too - my last final was yesterday.

Any more leads?


----------



## Panserbjorne

lol-I'll see what I can dig up. It's not a topic I'm hugely informed about but I have read a bit of Steiner's original writings. I think (like so many things) he had brilliant things to say and some other took his ideas out of context and went a bit crazy. However in terms of nutrition he did say that kiddos cannot assimilate nutrients from veggies very well and should have a diet heavy in animal products (traditionally pastured, raised/fed etc.) He felt that if you WERE going to give kiddos any significant amount of veggies they should be slathered in butter (again, traditionally made, golden butter) to up their chances of utilizing the nutrients. If there is no butter another healthy form of fat was essential. Broths were also emphasized.

The idea is that kiddos really need the concentrated nutrients found in animal foods and their systems would be too stressed trying to break down and digest plant foods in any large amounts.

I'll see what I can dig up for you. It's been awhile!


----------



## WuWei

:








:

Pat


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
He felt that if you WERE going to give kiddos any significant amount of veggies they should be slathered in butter (again, traditionally made, golden butter) to up their chances of utilizing the nutrients. If there is no butter another healthy form of fat was essential. Broths were also emphasized.

Interesting. That's how I always ate my (cooked) veggies- with LOTS of butter. Although, I did love raw veggies with homemade ranch dressing too, though I'd eat them without if there was nothing else to eat.
I remember I used to be really "bad" for broths. My mom couldn't keep homemade soup in the house for more than a day or two even if she made a huge pot of it.

On the other hand, during *really* stressful periods, I'd crave raw veggies with no fats (lost weight like crazy and couldn't gain no matter how much I ate).


----------



## tanyalynn

Has anyone considered, or actually done, a diet like SCD or GAPS? I think a significant part of my husband's adrenal fatigue is a long-term gluten and dairy intolerance. There are other factors, several stressful things in the past 5 years that were more immediate precipitating events, but I think these were significant underlying factors for him (and yes, I'm sure nutrition, and the lack thereof, factors in).

I'm interested in this as part of healing his adrenals, I have a feeling if I did any sort of allergy testing for him, it would show multiple allergens, but he doesn't feel better or worse with any foods. So that's why I am wondering if a diet that's mainly meant to heal the gut would be appropriate. But I think we need to go slow, really ease into it, because I don't want to stress his adrenals with detox symptoms.

Thoughts? Anyone btdt? I'm leaning towards GAPS because I am very leery of dairy, and I think all of us (me and the kids) will be doing it together, and I'm not willing to give them dairy yet (we're gfcf now).


----------



## Panserbjorne

DH has adrenal insufficiency and celiac disease that was recently diagnosed. When we did the SCD he was great and we figured it was just that we were eating meat again. When he went more paleo (dairy free but still basically SCD) he was so much better. I think there are alot of reasons why these diets (paleo/SCD/GAPS etc) can be helpful in adrenal fatigue. I would ease in though....you are right about wanted to prevent heavy detoxing.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

I've been kicking around the idea of going more restrictive with our diets after the new year; we are already Feingold (stage 2), and GF. I've thought dairy should be next, but I don't think I've begun to heal enough to do that without stressing myself out (we love raw milk, and eat a fair share of [pasteurized] yogurt and cheese). I was also thinking of just going stage 1 Feingold for a month or too (eliminating all salicylates), but I'm not sure about that either. Even with a diagnosis of adrenal fatigue, sometimes it's still such a wild goose chase to get to the beginnings of it all to heal it all.

That said, this thread and the information on B5 has been very helpful. Dh and I take a B-complex. I also started the older two on 1/2 of the dosage of a lower-dosage B-complex (I think it's a B-50 complex and they get 1/2 dosage) chewable. The littlest one has wanted to have one too, so I've been giving him 1/2 of a tablet (which would be 1/4 of the dosage) for the past couple days. At the same time, we've been night weaning, which for the first 3 nights was tough (I already was losing sleep nursing him every 2 hours, so I wasn't any more sleep deprived than normal). Well, last night he slept through the night - the entire night from 10pm until 6:30am - for the first time in his entire life! It's the first night of sleep for that long (and I actually "woke" a few times but went right back to sleep) that I have had in, probably, 8 years (I didn't sleep well when pregnant with any of the boys, and don't think I've slept for more than 4 hours at one time since before my first one was born). The other two boys have been sleeping much more peacefully (except the one night when we forgot to put a pull-up on the five year old), and if ds#3 can keep this up, I might actually start feeling better.







Already today, even though I'm still tired and could nap right now if it were possible, I have a bit more energy.

My ND also ordered us some AmlaPaste to start taking. She swears by its adaptogenic properties. If it helps us feel better, I'm all for it at this point.


----------



## nichole

I would like to give just a little update on me.

After a year on armour and supporting my adrenals, I'm going back to synthroid. I feel tired on it, but more calm. I think I need a higher dose of synthroid or maybe synthroid plus a small dose of T3. I don't know if my health care practitioner will go for that. I really do not want to discrouage anyone from taking armour, but after a year of blookwork every six weeks that always came back wrong or just right when i felt super hyper, i give up!

Good luck to everyone. I can't wait to see what my next blood work says. I'm tired of going to bed at 8pm. I'm still working on healing my adrenals. I will keep taking all my supplements, but the best thing I have done is to reduce my stress. I'm also just a few months past getting my amalgams out, so maybe that is a factor.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
I would like to give just a little update on me.

After a year on armour and supporting my adrenals, I'm going back to synthroid. I feel tired on it, but more calm. I think I need a higher dose of synthroid or maybe synthroid plus a small dose of T3. I don't know if my health care practitioner will go for that. I really do not want to discrouage anyone from taking armour, but after a year of blookwork every six weeks that always came back wrong or just right when i felt super hyper, i give up!

Good luck to everyone. I can't wait to see what my next blood work says. I'm tired of going to bed at 8pm. I'm still working on healing my adrenals. I will keep taking all my supplements, but the best thing I have done is to reduce my stress. I'm also just a few months past getting my amalgams out, so maybe that is a factor.

If you're tired on synthroid, consider supplementing selenium, either as a pill or a few brazil nuts per day. That should help with the T4 to T3 conversion (it helped my dog anyway







). I had a harder period in the 3-6 months after I got my fillings out.







Are you taking vitC to bowel tolerance? Seems especially helpful now, both for the mercury and to have enough for your adrenals.


----------



## nichole

Yes, I am taking vitamin C. I will look into the selenium. There is a little in my multi, I think.


----------



## crunchy_mama

I haven't posted in awhile and find this all interesting. Especially the salicylate connection. We have been on low salicylate for Feingold, but have been trying to add some back in.... I tried adding lots of various supplements, but found the B complex makes me feel worse. I need to read moer about the B5- I know you were talking about something causing an increased need for it.

Right now I am only taking the calm in the evening (3t)- no digestive issue, clo sometimes, vit c SA sometimes. However, I have added brazil nuts for selenium, has been nearly 2 weeks now I think. For the first time in a long time I feel happy. It is such an odd thing. I also finally feel like exercising again and have and had good endurance. My period came without the spotting this time as well. I wonder how much of this change can be attributed to the selenium. I have also tread the candida as well, which very well may be part of it.

I find it very interesting about the veggies as well, makes my life easier as a mother!!


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
I haven't posted in awhile and find this all interesting. Especially the salicylate connection. We have been on low salicylate for Feingold, but have been trying to add some back in.... I tried adding lots of various supplements, but found the B complex makes me feel worse. I need to read moer about the B5- I know you were talking about something causing an increased need for it.

Right now I am only taking the calm in the evening (3t)- no digestive issue, clo sometimes, vit c SA sometimes. However, I have added brazil nuts for selenium, has been nearly 2 weeks now I think. For the first time in a long time I feel happy. It is such an odd thing. I also finally feel like exercising again and have and had good endurance. My period came without the spotting this time as well. I wonder how much of this change can be attributed to the selenium. I have also tread the candida as well, which very well may be part of it.

I find it very interesting about the veggies as well, makes my life easier as a mother!!

Your comment about your period coming without spotting first is very interesting to me. I have had spotting before my period now for, I don't know, 4-6 months? Maybe around the time that I think my adrenal issues really got severe (my dad passed away in the summer of '07, and life following that got absolutely insane and over-the-top stressful, probably the worst it's been since I had a m/c in '02). Is the pre-period spotting something that could be related to the adrenal fatigue? Do you think the extra selenium is helping? There is some selenium in the multi I take ... how much is recommended (in holistic circles, not FDA) for women? Hmm ... something else to research.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
I haven't posted in awhile and find this all interesting. Especially the salicylate connection. We have been on low salicylate for Feingold, but have been trying to add some back in.... I tried adding lots of various supplements, but found the B complex makes me feel worse. I need to read moer about the B5- I know you were talking about something causing an increased need for it.

Salicylates react with coenzyme A, and then your body needs to make more (think of a leaky bucket, salicylates are the hole). Pantothenic acid (B5) is the precursor, so you need much more than you would without the sals.

My own take on B vits is that if they change the way you feel, then you've supplemented the right thing - and now the deficiency is shifted to something else instead. Think of limiting reagents in chemistry. Also watch out for timing - B5 can block riboflavin absorption for example.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Did you know that salicylate sensitivity can CAUSE adrenal fatigue? And that most traditional diets were low in salicylates? Especially the northern european diets all my ancestors ate? So that for people like me, who have had symptoms of adrenal fatigue pretty much their entire lives, it could all be because of *eating too many fruits and veggies*!?!?


This is a fascinating article about the high salicylate issue in many fruits and vegetables. *Apparently, vine ripened produce allows the salicylates to breakdown naturally and are replaced by anti-oxidants!* The salicylates in the produce inhibit the uptake of many vitamins and minerals making the produce significantly less nutritious. The conclusion is that "Green picked fruit has almost no vitamins and minerals."

This is significant for vitamin and mineral deficiencies. Buying vine-ripened, local produce will allow the benefits of the produce.

http://tinyurl.com/6358wc

Pat


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Your comment about your period coming without spotting first is very interesting to me. I have had spotting before my period now for, I don't know, 4-6 months? Maybe around the time that I think my adrenal issues really got severe (my dad passed away in the summer of '07, and life following that got absolutely insane and over-the-top stressful, probably the worst it's been since I had a m/c in '02). Is the pre-period spotting something that could be related to the adrenal fatigue? Do you think the extra selenium is helping? There is some selenium in the multi I take ... how much is recommended (in holistic circles, not FDA) for women? Hmm ... something else to research.

I _think_ I remember an adrenal fatigue questionnaire that asked about a pause (no bleeding) in the middle of ones' cycle. And in the past few months, I've had more days of spotting near the beginning of my cycle, or bleeding then not then starting again and really menstruating. I'm not sure my adrenal symptoms are the worst they've ever been, but my thyroid symptoms are a lot less and my adrenals are somewhat worse than, say, last fall (when my cycles weren't like this). I vote it's a pattern (albeit one I don't understand).


----------



## Metasequoia

I've been saying for over a year now that I can't even begin to get my brain around the salicylates thing....but maybe I need to. We really don't eat much in the way of fruits & veggies since they're pricey & I prefer to focus on meat & dairy. I've also been kicking around the odea of going dairy free again, it's so hard. I'm fine with no gluten, FINE, but dairy is another story - which is probably saying something.

I've been on a sugar binge for the last two days - I feel like crap. What a downward spiral though, I forgot about this - I can't stop eating it, I get all hyped up, heart palps, and then I'm tired. Then I crave more.









January 1st baby, no more coffee, no more sugar. Maybe I should add salicylates to that list...

I had a doctor appt the other day & asked for the fasting insulin test that my ND requested. I'm nervous about it. (and why am I binging on sugar??)
I'm also having my D tested again & a bunch of hormones, as well as thyroid. It's probably useless to test my hormones via blood. I'll do my annual ASI again in Feb/March.

I need to get outside too, it's been SO rainy here.


----------



## crunchy_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Salicylates react with coenzyme A, and then your body needs to make more (think of a leaky bucket, salicylates are the hole). Pantothenic acid (B5) is the precursor, so you need much more than you would without the sals.

My own take on B vits is that if they change the way you feel, then you've supplemented the right thing - and now the deficiency is shifted to something else instead. Think of limiting reagents in chemistry. Also watch out for timing - B5 can block riboflavin absorption for example.

This is where I just get frustrated- what else do I look for? I just don't know what to look at next. I know it is likely I need the B's as I haven't good with eating liver in a while. I am feeling better than I have in ages though. I think that is due to the candida thing.

On the period, I don't know how adrenal fatigue is supposed to affect it, but I do know that spotting before isn't normal. Last month I even continued spotting afterwards it continued for 12 days, then I had some spotting when I ovulated. OH, and I had that telltale pimple when my period came, but this month no pimple!


----------



## freespirited

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kdegroo* 
Based on my research (largely here) I've added more B vitamins and Magnesium with REALLY great results. Anger: gone. Joy: feeling it for the first time in years. Thank you mamas for giving me back my life!!!

Two questions, though:

-We are TTC #2 and I am 15 DPO with no signs of AF, but negative PTs. Are the all extra B's making my LP crazy long? I'm excited I might be pregnant, but I don't want to get my hopes up. Just for the record, I didn't get positive POAS results with my daughter for a long time for some reason.

-I like taking Magnisium at night because it helps me sleep oh so well. How do I know I don't need some Ca, too?


May I ask what kind of magnesium you are taking? I am taking magnesium citrate, 200 mg before bed and at first it did help me sleep better but now I am having pretty bad insomnia and waking 2 hours after I fall asleep.

If anyone can advise me what I might take to sleep better, I would appreciate it. I am suspecting horrendous adrenal fatigue. I went through something so traumatic this summer that it truly made a bunch of gray hairs come out of my head and I have unshakeable depression. I want to feel that joy again too. Last time I felt that from magnesium I was pregnant and began to supplement. Is 200 mg just too low maybe? I also just started on an adrenal formula with B vitamins in it.


----------



## nichole

freespirited,

I have some magnesium citrate here that is 400mg. You can try doubling your dose, if that doesn't loosen your bowels.

Also, therapy with a counselor really helped me when I was having a hard time about something. Our insurance paid for it and antidepressants were never mentioned.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
This is where I just get frustrated- what else do I look for? I just don't know what to look at next.

I totally agree with you.


----------



## WuWei

Curious if many of the mamas have amalgam (silver) fillings in their teeth? http://www.targetyourhealth.org/reference/index.htm

Pat


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Curious if many of the mamas have amalgam (silver) fillings in their teeth? http://www.targetyourhealth.org/reference/index.htm

Pat

I've got so many of those things (eta: the symptoms, only 5 amalgam fillings). I wish someone had posted this 3 years ago when I was trying to figure everything out (took another year+ before I realized my amalgams were involved).

Good article, Pat, I think I will forward it to my parents, it links a lot of things, perhaps they will see a few familiar things. I swear I see so many things that various people in my family have dealt with, I am so grateful that I got my fillings, because understanding this will ultimately lead to so much good for us.








:


----------



## crunchy_mama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *freespirited* 
May I ask what kind of magnesium you are taking? I am taking magnesium citrate, 200 mg before bed and at first it did help me sleep better but now I am having pretty bad insomnia and waking 2 hours after I fall asleep.

If anyone can advise me what I might take to sleep better, I would appreciate it. I am suspecting horrendous adrenal fatigue. I went through something so traumatic this summer that it truly made a bunch of gray hairs come out of my head and I have unshakeable depression. I want to feel that joy again too. Last time I felt that from magnesium I was pregnant and began to supplement. Is 200 mg just too low maybe? I also just started on an adrenal formula with B vitamins in it.

big hugs! I am not an expert and there are probably lots of answers to your questions, but thought I would answer for myself. I am taking about 800mg of magnesium at night and it definitely makes a difference in how I sleep. Some people take raw honey before bed and say that helps, but I didn't notice it myself.

For me I notice that food makes a big difference in my food. On gluten I am depressed, cannot get out of bed or do anything depressed. Off of it, I feel tons better, but still not all the way up to par. Completely off of grains and sugar and I feel like a different woman, happiness, energy etc return. There are many pieces to the puzzle though. I try to get lots of green leafy veggies in as those make me feel better. I also try to get my clo and vit C in as well the bone broth and probiotics and other healing foods.

I had a very rough year last year and wanted to commiserate- I hope things get better for you very soon.


----------



## freespirited

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
big hugs! I am not an expert and there are probably lots of answers to your questions, but thought I would answer for myself. I am taking about 800mg of magnesium at night and it definitely makes a difference in how I sleep. Some people take raw honey before bed and say that helps, but I didn't notice it myself.

For me I notice that food makes a big difference in my food. On gluten I am depressed, cannot get out of bed or do anything depressed. Off of it, I feel tons better, but still not all the way up to par. Completely off of grains and sugar and I feel like a different woman, happiness, energy etc return. There are many pieces to the puzzle though. I try to get lots of green leafy veggies in as those make me feel better. I also try to get my clo and vit C in as well the bone broth and probiotics and other healing foods.

I had a very rough year last year and wanted to commiserate- I hope things get better for you very soon.


Thank you. I am going to try upping my magnesium first to 400 mg and see how that goes. I am off gluten now for 3 days and feeling weird. On the one hand, I feel way more energetic and on the other hand, I am having some flu-like symptoms, so I guess this is detox? How do you do on grains like millet and rice? I still eat those. I feel my depression somewhat lifting so far and I am very hopeful that gluten-free is going to help me a lot in that area. Also counseling would probably help although I did some intensive counseling for a time a few months ago and the experience still keeps coming back to haunt me so this time I am really concentrating on healing my body since it is really not doing well. Earlier in the year before the tramautic experience, I developed a strange illness that lasted about 3 days where my joints and muscles just froze up. I could hardly move. I was terrified. I couldn't lift my children or do anything. I was literally almost paralyzed. Then after a couple of days I slowly got some mobility back but my muscles were really sore for awhile. It was scary as heck but I didn't have insurance so I tried to deal with it on my own. I just got insurance so if something like that happens again I am going to get checked out.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *freespirited* 
May I ask what kind of magnesium you are taking? I am taking magnesium citrate, 200 mg before bed and at first it did help me sleep better but now I am having pretty bad insomnia and waking 2 hours after I fall asleep.

If anyone can advise me what I might take to sleep better, I would appreciate it. I am suspecting horrendous adrenal fatigue. I went through something so traumatic this summer that it truly made a bunch of gray hairs come out of my head and I have unshakeable depression. I want to feel that joy again too. Last time I felt that from magnesium I was pregnant and began to supplement. Is 200 mg just too low maybe? I also just started on an adrenal formula with B vitamins in it.

The primary factors I can identify that keep me awake at night are too little pantothenic acid or too little B6. Honey does help me sleep somewhat, and if we could cover up the giant windows in the bedroom to make it darker, I think that would help as well.


----------



## Autumnlaughing

I'm kind of intrigued by the salicylates thing - I couldn't eat fresh fruits + veggies due to oral allergy syndrome, and I've been eating them like crazy now that I can - and I know they aren't tree ripened - my office is right next to the biggest banana ripening room in the northeast. I'd been feeling worse and worse lately - I can't seem to keep my magnesium levels up, I'm up at 4am on the internet, etc. Very interesting.

Of course, I also stopped taking the pregnenolone that I was taking. It really was helping - I feel like an idiot constantly now. I just can't hold abstract thoughts together - complete brain fog. I hate it. Being smart is central to my personal identity!!!

I hadn't been keeping up so much here - my TTC journey took a turn for the worse when I *still* hadn't ovulated in over 90 days. (I'd stopped the pregnenolone because it could turn into estrone and progesterone and I thought that might be messing me up. ) And yes, the cycle before this (ovulation at day 32...) I had that pre-period spotting you're all talking about. Anyhow, the nurse-midwife said that given the pattern, I probably wouldn't be able to ovulate regularly on my own. She took a bunch of blood (thyroid, LH, FSH and prolactin) and gave me a provera script. I don't have the results yet, but I was frantically searching the interweb for possibilities - I know prolactin levels are associated with stress, so I was poking around that. And apparently licorice can cause elevated prolactin levels, leading to a lack of ovulation!! :head

I was SO stressing about "the I word", and it might just be my damn licorice?

OF course, the other problem is that I can. not. function. in the AM without it. I accidentally forgot it one day last week, and figured it out when I couldn't keep my eyes open..


----------



## WuWei

I'm confused. From a bit of reading, it appears that licorice root acts as a steroid. Steroids have rebound issues. Additionally, they alter the other sex hormones, from my understanding.

Pat


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Autumnlaughing* 
Of course, I also stopped taking the pregnenolone that I was taking. It really was helping - I feel like an idiot constantly now. I just can't hold abstract thoughts together - complete brain fog. I hate it. Being smart is central to my personal identity!!!

Me too! When I stop taking the pregnenolone, I'm mentally useless. I forget what I'm saying in the middle of sentences.









What do you guys think about hormonal imbalances? I feel like after 6 months of my cycles bein g back after Ds, my testtosterone must be outrageously high. When I don't have cycles because of nursing, I can go for days on end without showering with zero body odor. Now I stink by noon! And I'm hairy as an ape again.







The hair comes & goes & the only times I'm not a hairy gorilla is after birth, when I'm nursing (or back when I was on the pill.)


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## Autumnlaughing

Metasequoia - how much pregnenolone do you take? I was taking 10mg twice a day..

And speaking of hormonal imbalances, I think the progesterone they gave me is making me CRAZY - and not in the fun way, either. I'm still hoping that my non-ovulation battle is something as simple as the licorice - tho like I said, I'm not sure how I'll cope without it!


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## WuWei

Quitting "steroids" has a withdrawal period. Generally, it is not advised to quit them suddenly, but to taper off.

Pat


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Autumnlaughing* 
Metasequoia - how much pregnenolone do you take? I was taking 10mg twice a day..

I was up to 60mg/day at one point, back before my cycle resumed, but I cut back to 30mg/day. I go back & forth on how I feel about taking it. I don't think it affects my hairy ape-ness because I've stopped taking it for over a month with no changes.


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## Pookietooth

Nursing seems to help my hairy ape-ness. One reason why I'm still nursing my nearly five year old. That, and he's attached to it.


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## Autumnlaughing

wuwei - I think I'm a bit confused (um, like always lately..) I haven't read anything about tapering off licorice use anywhere - I usually don't take it on the weekends at all. I'd figured it's half-life would be too short.

metasequoia - so you suspect the pregnenolone makes you hairier? I've been wondering if the slight darkening of my lip hair was my imagination... I tend towards LOTS of hair anyway..

I'm a little mixed about getting my cycles back - obviously, I want to get pregnant, so it's important, but I feel like my moods have been so much more stable without my cycle! Of course, they jumped in stability when I went off the pill, too.


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## Brookesmom

This is fascinating. (Of course you don't hear it in the headlines or on network news). Another reason to go to the farmer's market or use the CSA.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
*Apparently, vine ripened produce allows the salicylates to breakdown naturally and are replaced by anti-oxidants!*
The conclusion is that "Green picked fruit has almost no vitamins and minerals."

This is significant for vitamin and mineral deficiencies. Buying vine-ripened, local produce will allow the benefits of the produce.


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Autumnlaughing* 
metasequoia - so you suspect the pregnenolone makes you hairier? I've been wondering if the slight darkening of my lip hair was my imagination... I tend towards LOTS of hair anyway..

No, I don't think it is. I've gone off of it for over a month with no change. It *can* cause hairiness, if your body converts everything to testosterone, but it's much more likely with supplemental DHEA. Pregnenolone is recommended for women because it's not likely to cause hair growth.


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## MyLittleWonders

Can we talk salt? I feel like I need salt all the time - this just started within the last week (the constant need). Before, I would crave some salt, eat a little bit, and then be fine. I feel like keeping a bottle with me so I can have some without having to get up and go to the kitchen. What is going on with the insane need for salt? I feel dizzy/out of equilibrium if I don't have some all the time ... does AF really require so much extra salt?


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## nichole

That is awesome if the salt is helping you. Make sure you avoid bananas or anything with lots of potassium that displaces salt. I don't know if displace is the right word?


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## tanyalynn

When you say insane amounts, how much are we talking? I've heard of taking 1/2 tsp in the morning and then salting food to taste for the rest of the day (just as an example). The salt problem, as I understand it, is that our kidneys aren't holding onto it properly, so we're peeing it out. If we don't eat extra, then although we may be consuming a fairly normal amount, we're significant deficient in terms of what is actually available in our bodies for use, and since it's part of how chemicals and nutrients get in and out of cells, that's a big deal (I'm sure it does other stuff, too, but this came to mind first).

If this is a sudden change, it doesn't sound like things are going in the right direction. How are the stressors in your life?


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## MyLittleWonders

Well, for me an insane amount is really any salt. I have never been a huge fan of salt, and use very, very little, if any at all. Every once in a blue moon, I'd crave something salty, have french fries or potato chips (the yummiest way to get salt







), and then I'd go on my merry no-salt way. So, now I feel like having a pinch every few hours. In total, I'm probably not even eating 1/2 a teaspoon to 3/4 a teaspoon a day, but for me, it seems like so much salt. I've just noticed within the last month or so that I really want salt, whereas before I never really thought about salt. Maybe, though, being aware more recently of the need for extra salt because of AF would make me more aware of my desire for it?

As for the stressors in my life, they are a bit higher than normal. I think most of it is the impending holiday season, which began in our family today. Fortunately, though, dh also just began his two week winter break from work (he teaches), so things should actually be less stressful now (he was working long hours because he had grades due just before vacation).

So, I probably should have clarified my comment in my previous post ... I just am not used to wanting salt except very rarely, so wanting a little pinch throughout the day seems like so much for me.


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## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
So, I probably should have clarified my comment in my previous post ... I just am not used to wanting salt except very rarely, so wanting a little pinch throughout the day seems like so much for me.

Ohh... amazing where my assumptions can get me.







I've gone through a couple periods of suddenly realizing I need something (salt and red meat come to mind), and it hasn't been necessarily when I'm getting worse, I think it's been part of getting better actually. FTR, I don't think this level of salt consumption is at all inappropriate, so I'd roll with it and just keep paying attention to what you feel like you need.


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## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
If you're tired on synthroid, consider supplementing selenium, either as a pill or a few brazil nuts per day. That should help with the T4 to T3 conversion (it helped my dog anyway







). I had a harder period in the 3-6 months after I got my fillings out.







Are you taking vitC to bowel tolerance? Seems especially helpful now, both for the mercury and to have enough for your adrenals.

Tanya,

THANK YOU! I started the selenium. It was only a few dollars for 100 tabs, and I feel the difference already.







You are the best! Maybe the holidays just have me on a high? But, I feel great.


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## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Well, for me an insane amount is really any salt. I have never been a huge fan of salt, and use very, very little, if any at all. Every once in a blue moon, I'd crave something salty, have french fries or potato chips (the yummiest way to get salt







), and then I'd go on my merry no-salt way. So, now I feel like having a pinch every few hours. In total, I'm probably not even eating 1/2 a teaspoon to 3/4 a teaspoon a day, but for me, it seems like so much salt. I've just noticed within the last month or so that I really want salt, whereas before I never really thought about salt. Maybe, though, being aware more recently of the need for extra salt because of AF would make me more aware of my desire for it?

As for the stressors in my life, they are a bit higher than normal. I think most of it is the impending holiday season, which began in our family today. Fortunately, though, dh also just began his two week winter break from work (he teaches), so things should actually be less stressful now (he was working long hours because he had grades due just before vacation).

So, I probably should have clarified my comment in my previous post ... I just am not used to wanting salt except very rarely, so wanting a little pinch throughout the day seems like so much for me.

Aldosterone is the hormone responsible for retaining salt and excreting potassium. It's also responsible for how sensitive your taste buds are to salt. If your levels are high, you'd hold on to salt tightly and it would taste really strong. If your levels are low, you'd be constantly excreting it and salt would taste really good. I think that's what's happened in my life... resistance phase forever and not liking salt, then crash and craving salt like crazy. Now it's starting to taste salty again! Yay!

In adrenal fatigue, there is a resistance phase where all the adrenal hormones ramp up their production. This phase can last anywhere from days to years in different people. Then they crash, and cortisol gets made at the expense of everything else, so everything else gets low.

It could be that you were in resistance phase for a long time, with high aldosterone, and so you didn't want salt, but now your adrenals can't keep up with the crazy demand anymore, and so aldosterone isn't being produced so much anymore. How's your blood pressure?


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## MyLittleWonders

I'm not sure about my blood pressure (I should check it the next time I'm at the store and/or Target where they have the machines). Usually it ranges anywhere from 90/55 or so, with the "high" being 120/70. The salt craving has dissipated a bit; it still tastes really good, but I'm not feeling the need to grind some every time I walk through the kitchen.









Last weekend I went to a highly recommended doctor of Oriental Medicine; she sensed a large candida overgrowth, as well as bacteria in my kidneys/bladder (I knew that), my sinus cavities (I suspected as much), as well as very low levels in my lungs and spleen. She highly recommended I drop all dairy; I didn't want to, but when she told dh that he needed to drop dairy as well due to his recurrent migraines, I knew we had to. So, we are now casein-free as well as gluten-free. Plus, I'm taking calcium bentonite clay 2x a day, and a custom-mix of Chinese herbs 3x a day. This should knock out all bacteria, candida, and the lingering herpes virus from my mouth. So, I'm excited - I might be a whole new woman by the end of January!







(I'm giving the dairy a month to fully exit my system, and the herbs take about 5-6 weeks to fully eliminate everything.)


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## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Tanya,

THANK YOU! I started the selenium. It was only a few dollars for 100 tabs, and I feel the difference already.







You are the best! Maybe the holidays just have me on a high? But, I feel great.

I'm so glad. And this made my day (I'm sick, just a cold but annoying, so I needed a bit of an upper).


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## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
It could be that you were in resistance phase for a long time, with high aldosterone, and so you didn't want salt, but now your adrenals can't keep up with the crazy demand anymore, and so aldosterone isn't being produced so much anymore.

Holy moley. You just explained me and my parents and salt. I swear, all the "odd" things aren't weird quirks, they're clues, and once you know what they mean, it all fits together.

Cool. Thanks!


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## Maggi315

Salt and aldosterone are two of the things that are difficult for me. With the pituitary tumor contributing to my adrenal problems, I have to have salt to increase my b/p and keep things in check. In fact, when my b/p falls and I am heading towards a crisis, I am supposed to go to the ER and have a saline drip run.

I'm back at square one with my adrenal fatigue and I am going to attempt to start reading this thread again and pulling out ideas. i feel so overwhelmed, there seems so much to do, supplements, diet changes, etc. I have tried doing things piece by piece but have failed. I have been able to give up my soda addiction and artificial sweetners, but not dairy yet.

I am thinking of buying the adrenal supplements from James Wilson and starting there, at least that would be a good start.

Any I know my circadian clock is off, I can't seem to get that fixed, my sleep is a mess. My doc wants another sleep study, a 24 hour one this time, but I postponed until after the holiday season.

How many supplements is everyone taking? I feel like that's all i am doing, is taking supplements all day, and I take taking so many pills.


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## Babina's Mommy

Hello, I'm new here..I have adrenal fatigue due to Candida overgrowth. I was diagnosed several months ago. Not fun! One of my biggest symptoms is my hypoglycemia. I also had the salt/aldosterone issue. I began taking Isocort a few months ago. My adrenal fatigue started getting really bad a few months ago, and I was nauseated, throwing up, very tired, had heartburn, missed my periods, cravings for certain foods and started gaining weight around my middle. These are all potentially adrenal fatigue symptoms, so I never questioned anything, but I just found out I am over four months pregnant. So now the challenge is to try to fix my Candida and adrenals while pregnant, which....I don't think is going to be easy. One thing that is a major factor for me is trying to reduce stress, take my mind off of my health issues, and try to stay positive and not think about it too much.


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## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Babina's Mommy* 
Hello, I'm new here..I have adrenal fatigue due to Candida overgrowth. I was diagnosed several months ago. Not fun! One of my biggest symptoms is my hypoglycemia. I also had the salt/aldosterone issue. I began taking Isocort a few months ago. My adrenal fatigue started getting really bad a few months ago, and I was nauseated, throwing up, very tired, had heartburn, missed my periods, cravings for certain foods and started gaining weight around my middle. These are all potentially adrenal fatigue symptoms, so I never questioned anything, but I just found out I am over four months pregnant. So now the challenge is to try to fix my Candida and adrenals while pregnant, which....I don't think is going to be easy. One thing that is a major factor for me is trying to reduce stress, take my mind off of my health issues, and try to stay positive and not think about it too much.

The clinic where I was diagnosed believes that candida overgrowth is caused by adrenal fatigue, rather than the other way around - they say that a healthy body will keep the candida in check - heal the adrenals and don't worry about candida. That makes sense to me, and I want to believe it because it makes treatment much easier!

And I find that if my adrenals are doing well, things don't stress me out nearly so much. Something that might cause a fight with dh when I'm feeling low just doesn't even register when I'm feeling good. Reducing stress is stressful in my family, so not very effective







I'm much happier ignoring stress as a factor at all and having it go away on its own. Obviously that works better for some forms of stress than for others.

The biggest thing I've learned in the last year and a half of food sensitivities, adrenal fatigue and nutrition is to change the way you're looking at the problem. Things that appear to be causes and that may be exacerbating issues are usually just symptoms. Trying to make them go away is really hard and there are a thousand different ways of doing it, but it still doesn't even address the issue.

Right now, I'm happily taking mega doses of vitamins to feel good/treat symptoms, and eliminating salicylates in hopes that they're the reason my adrenals are fatigued in the first place. If it turns out that they are, my plan is to start diving into probiotics to see what they can do for salicylate intolerance. In order to get here, I've suspected/cut out gluten, dairy, soy, eggs, almonds, lamb, stone fruit, nightshades, strawberries, asparagus, all carbs, starch, grains... I've tried SCD, a TED, a candida diet, probiotics, digestive enzymes, bentonite, vitamins... And I'm sure I'm forgetting some major stuff. Some of it helped, some of it made things worse, and some was very educational if nothing else.


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## Babina's Mommy

Oh yes, I believe that the adrenals being fatigued can also lead to the Candida overgrowth, but I think in my case, Candida came first. I had Lyme disease and took antibiotics very very long term and through my first pregnancy which wasn't really too smart...and also, I believe the adrenal fatigue may have started with the Lyme disease too. It's like a viscious cycle. I have tried most of the things you have too. I am more working on healing the adrenals because those symptoms are more severe than the Candida. I think around the time I became pregnant, I was horrible...I was not handling anything at all...I would shake and tremble when trying to do simple chores around the house and have to go lie down. This is why I'm so surprised I became pregnant in the first place!


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## 5796

Oh, my gosh, this thread is so long and I don't know but at first glance of a couple pages it seems to be focused on adults.

I need to support my DS--adrenal issues. He is 7.

Anyone btdt?


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## Autumnlaughing

I guess we're all back from the holidays, huh?

I wish I had answers - it feels like every time I turn around I have more questions! My "not ovulating" hormone checks came back, and the nurse-midwife said that they looked like PCOS, not licorice induced hyperprolactimia, like I'd thought. That threw me for a loop - I hadn't been expecting PCOS!

I'm thinking that there has to be a link -they're both very anterior pituitary linked. Yesterday evening, I found something called "late onset congenital adrenal hyperplasia" that looks likely, though a bit scary. I'll be making a bunch more appointments tomorrow...

I'm also not sure what to take anymore. I'd stopped the licorice, and I kind of feel that I was doing OK without it. I think I had withdrawal issues from the pregnenolone, but now I seem to be more or less OK. I'm still eating salt more or less to taste (which means more than 1/2 tsp (probably more than a full tsp) on my food a day), and I've forgotten my adrenal cortex the last few days, but I'm just nervy about the pills making things worse, now.


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## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tracy* 
Oh, my gosh, this thread is so long and I don't know but at first glance of a couple pages it seems to be focused on adults.

I need to support my DS--adrenal issues. He is 7.

Anyone btdt?

Tracy,
I highly, highly suspect adrenal issues in all my boys, especially my older two. For now, we are all gluten free, beginning dairy free (food allergies can highly stress the body/adrenals), and the boys take a multi, vit. C, 1/2 of a dose of a chewable B-complex (I think it's a B-50, and they take one instead of 2; my youngest takes 1/2 of one), magnesium and cod liver oil. I'm also really one them to make sure they have protein at every meal/snack. We homeschool, and have also moved towards a more unschooling approach to reduce the stress on my oldest (he's not reading yet - I think he's a visual/spatial kiddo), and the math workbooks, phonics readers, etc. were stressing him unduly. And now that the holidays are just about over (at least in regards to family being over or us at family events), they are back to their bedtime of about 9pm. We have not done any testing on them, but based on dh and I, I have a good idea of how to work with them now from a nutritional point of view. I hope that helps.


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## 5796

thank you. we do clo and multi vitamin and c. I have not done a chewable b. I think I will fold that in and magnesium. My son does not have homework this year, teacher does not believe in it, which is great for him but I just think he is a nervous energy and it stresses his adrenals just 'being'. if that makes sense.

thank you for the info!

Tracy


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## dhammamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Another big recommendation is salt & lots of it.

I salt everything heavily (sea salt.) My doctor wanted me to drink a glass of salt water first thing in the morning & I tried but I couldn't do it.

Bottom line, our adrenals need salt, our bodies NEED salt!

!

Great post-- thanks! I'm pretty much on the same path/ wavelength and finding quite a bit of relief after a year or effort. It's cool to read other's experiences.
Re: salt--
You might try dissolving 1/4- 1/2t of sea salt in 1/8-1/4 c. of water. I find that ratio much more tolerable than highly dilute, which tended to make me nauseous. Toss it back like a shooter, and follow with lots of straight h2o.























oops! sorry! I didn't realize I was responding to such an old post! You've probably gotten this all figured out by now.


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## dhammamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maggi315* 

How many supplements is everyone taking? I feel like that's all i am doing, is taking supplements all day, and I take taking so many pills.

I haven't counted but it's a LOT-- I have the exact same feeling-- all I do all day is take pills. All the bottles make me feel a little weird to look at, but it is helping.

Maybe 30? 40?


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## kdegroo

Just out of curiosity, how long is your cycle?
I've always had long cycles, but we are TTC#2 right now, and last month I didn't O until day 36. Right now I'm on day 29 and still waiting. Obsurd! After I got my pp periods back the cycles were on the short (shorter than 28 days for a while). I went off of the adrenal and thyroid support herbs to ttc... I guess that threw everything for a loop. Frack.

BTW, I too had Candida with my adrenal fatigue. I stopped eating sugar, etc, which helped both significantly. I think for me, it was AF first, then the yeast. Good luck! Knowing and getting that validation is a BIG step in the right direction.


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## Autumnlaughing

dharmmamomma - your count makes me feel like I have nothing to complain about! Actually, I'm really not taking many these days. Magnesium, D, multi, and the adrenal cortex (though I wasn't taking that b/c I packed it for Christmas + kept forgetting to put it back near the others!)

Today at work was HELL. I realized that the progesterone (which I finished a few days before the holiday) was probably "covering" for the lack of licorice. I'm hesitant to add anything back in because I'm hoping for more testing soon + I want it to be as free of hormone-changing supplements as possible, but I think I need the licorice!

Maybe it'll be better if I'm careful about getting enough sleep?

I tested positive for candida, and went through seven months of hell trying to kill it, all the while feeling like it was pointless because whatever let it get a foothold was still an issue. I think that the adrenal insufficiency was that thing....


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## Babina's Mommy

kdegroo, if you meant me, I had only one 40 day cycle since giving birth to my daughter. Then I became pregnant again. Yikes!


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## Maggi315

Anyone using the formulas' by james wilson? what do you think about them? i want to get them, but they are a little pricey, not too bad considering the vast amount of crap i take now, lol!

I'm also thinking of starting back on a little bit of hydrocortisone, which i was taking for my pituitary tumor. But then my blood pressure went through the roof, now it's all over the place, so not sure about that.

i read about cyclical cushings, and i am starting to believe that my tumor may be causing some of that.


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## Metasequoia

You know what I've noticed? This current cycle was *brutal* leading up to & during ovulation. I ached like crazy, lots of rectal pressure & my skin all over my torso "ached". I've never experienced the skin ache before, but as soon as I ovulated, it cleared up.

I remember how crapy I felt when all of this began, after Ds was born in the spring of '06. I kept thinking that once I got my cycles back, my hormones would come back up & I'd feel normal again. Hah. Ever since my cycles returned this past May, I've been feeling consistently worse each month.

My periods are fine, better in fact, than they've ever been. No PMS, no cramps, no heavy bleeding (I've never been a heavy bleeder), no breast tenderness, nada. But the pre-ovulation thing stinks. I'm also more regular than I've ever been - about a 32-33 day cycle.

What does this suggest?


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## MyLittleWonders

Jumping us back on the first page. I think the holidays really, really wiped me out. Leading up to them, I was getting stressed (dh's job had him stressed and working late, which in turn got me stressed and tired). But, so much entertaining, being around people, having to always be "up", and not getting to bed early enough has just driven me down, I think. Now, we are all out of whack with our sleep (the boys are going to bed late; ds#3 is taking very late naps, going to be very late - 11pm, and he can't go to sleep without nursing - and then I'm up nursing him again at about 7:30), and I'm just done. I was just starting to feel good before the middle of December hit. And I get very frustrated with dh because he sleeps in while I'm constantly dealing with ds#3 (basically 24/7). So, starting today, it's back to 4-5 meals with protein (which is now getting challenging to get protein/healthy fats because we are now casein/dairy free on top of being gluten free), taking all my supplements at the right time of the day, and I swear, I'm going to bed by 10pm regardless of what anyone else is doing. The hard part is yet again, we are entertaining tonight. It's only my MIL and FIL; dh invited them over for dinner and family movie night, but again, I have to make sure the house is decent, prepare dinner for more than just us and basically be "up" and entertaining. Dh knows I don't want to, but at the same time I feel the need to honor his desire of having his parents over. Sorry for the mini-vent ... I'm tired of being tired and I was finally starting to not feel that way and am now frustrated that I'm feeling that way again.


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## ChristSavesAll

Has anyone done this? I've done the flashlight in a dark room test and on top of that experience bouts of exhaustion since having my kids. Right now I'm breastfeeding my dd (4months) i've read its not safe to take right now, but I dont always believe what the skeptics say.


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## tanyalynn

This thread really got buried!

Metasequoia--no idea on the discomfort around ovulation, but I'm experiencing the same thing, though it sounds like not quite as intensely. I feel like my adrenals are getting better, gradually, but the achiness/discomfort is increasing each month too. Not sure what is out of whack with that. I have noticed that my periods are seeming normal--instead of that start-stop-start pattern I had for a while, now they're just fairly normal.

So, if I have time and can find a few places to read, I was thinking of trying to put together a few things on how we can tell (besides actual testing) whether/how much we're getting better (I'll test eventually, but I want to wait til I'm closer to healthy--it's not going to change what I'm doing in the meantime). Because it occurred to me that I think I am, and I'm wondering if my salt cravings aren't as intense as they used to be--still more than most people, I think, but a bit less. Anyone have ideas already?

And on another note--today I finally saw how caffeine really does affect me. I've been on and off several times, without noticing anything really obvious (just slow trends) in how it makes me feel, but today I think the soda mid-day was the reason I had shakes in the late afternoon and I seriously needed food--I haven't felt like that in quite a while. I do better with immediate, obvious feedback.







:


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## Metasequoia

Well, my first clue that my adrenals were healing was total loss of anxiety (from which I'd suffered since being a pre-teen.)

Caffeine is SUCH a problem. I was off it for almost a year & felt GREAT. I woke up fine, went right to cooking & just felt soooo much better. Then I started having green tea in the afternoon & I knew it was affecting me, yet I still continued to drink it because green tea is so beneficial. Then I started drinking coffee again in the mornings...and the tea in the afternoons...now I'm a wreck. I go to bed at night dreaming of my morning coffee. I had a brilliant idea the other day though & don't know why I haven't thought of it before. I'm going to get a single cup coffee maker & brew decaf. My Mom brews a full pot of regular each morning & I just can't resist it. If I didn't live with my folks, I'd have no problem, but when I come downstairs after nursing twice during the wee hours of the morning & there's a steaming pot of delicious coffee ready & waiting, it's too much to resist.
So, I'll wean down to decaf & then I'll quit - replacing it maybe with an herbal tea. I've heard nettles are really great for the adrenals...

In other news, I got my blood work results back! Did I tell you guys what I went through?? I had to do a fasting blood draw. So I ate dinner at 6pm, went to bed, went to have my blood drawn on an empty stomach & 1 full pint of blood later, I was laying on the table at the lab trying to stay conscious. I made it outside, after having to stop twice to sit down & try like hell to stay conscious. lost vision & hearing, tripped over the cement parking marker, into the side of my car. I somehow managed to climb inside & get to the food I had brought along & just started shoveling in hummus & those Mary's Gone Crackers. I can't *believe* they take a pint of blood from a fasting person & just send them on their way. I could have dien coing down the 2 flights of stairs or killed someone driving home afterwards. Thank goddess I had food in the car.

ANYWAY, my results are great, from what I can tell. My DHEA is low, of course & my D is bad, 36 - on a Quest test. I haven't been supping though, so I could get a pure result. Now I can start loading up on the D.

My fasting glucose & insulin are *perfect* which has been a major source of anxiety for me since my Dad's diabetes & resulting heart failure episode.

My first ever cholesterol panel was awesome! (at least, I think so.)
My total cholesterol is 163. HDL is 89, LDL is 66 & triglycerides are 39. I think I'd like my cholesterol a little higher, yes?

Aaaaand, my hormones all looked great. So PCOS/insulin resistance aren't looking like a likely dx, which is great news for my adrenals because it was a huge health anxiety....which is probably a result of the addition of caffeine...

***Licorice*** my ND had me on it while bfing 10 onth old Ds, who was pretty much exclusively bfing.


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## Metasequoia

Thanks for the bump, Tanya.


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## tanyalynn

That fasting blood draw sounds rough! The last time I had any blood drawn, I think it was Mar08, and I deliberately ate right before bed (but still long enough to meet their requirements) because I knew it would be hard the next morning. I didn't feel as bad as you, but I felt bad (and I brought food too). I really look forward to the day when I've got normal reserves and can do normal things like this. But I'd think they'd keep an eye on people--the blood bank people are really good about stuff like that.

And I saw your cholesterol (some other thread?), and I'm impressed. You said it's your first cholesterol panel, but I bet it's way up from your lowest, it sounds like you're doing good, especially given all the stress you've had lately!







And yes, I think you ultimately want it higher, I'm hoping, tentatively, for 200-220-ish, but I really don't know where it will plateau (and technically, if I really feel healed, I won't care too much, but I know it really should be higher than 138). And great news on all the other stuff being normal--it really sounds like you've avoided a lot of likely problems because you're taking such good care of yourself now.







:

Oh hey, and speaking of signs of healing, I don't know if anyone's seen this but me, but early on, I stumbled across the oddity that my body temperature would _drop_ after I got out of bed in the morning. It was very repeatable--say my BBT before getting out of bed would be 97.2 and then I'd get up, go to the bathroom, and come back and re-take it (I stumbled on this by accident, I just had time to kill one morning and wanted to see how fast my temp would go up, since not moving around before taking a BBT was stressed so much) and my temp would have dropped to, say 96.2 and occasionally into the high 95s (at its worst, it was a 1.0-1.5F drop). I think this is analogous to the blood pressure test (take it lying down, and then if it drops immediately after you stand up, bad news for your adrenals). But I have no idea if they change at the same time (or if the body temp thing is really just me).

But yay, my body temp now goes up like a normal person's. It was really cool to see this a couple weeks ago (and it's consistent, wasn't just one good day).

Re: D--is Quest the one with iffy results? Higher than they're supposed to be (for the most part--sounds like some were just bizarre-ly wrong from the news article I read). How long did you stop your D supp before testing? I am starting to supp A & D (and need a stand-alone D as well) but I want to do it for maybe 6 mos before testing, but I don't know when/if to stop beforehand. Thoughts?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Re: D--is Quest the one with iffy results? Higher than they're supposed to be (for the most part--sounds like some were just bizarre-ly wrong from the news article I read). How long did you stop your D supp before testing? I am starting to supp A & D (and need a stand-alone D as well) but I want to do it for maybe 6 mos before testing, but I don't know when/if to stop beforehand. Thoughts?

Well, I wasn't really supping because I get sooooo much sun in the summer, pool almost daily, beach for 3 weeks in September/October - still have a tan. And I knew I would be testing in the near future. I guess I was taking CLO twice a week & Carlson's D capsules 2-3 times a week.

And yes, it's Quest's method that sucks. You need to adjust your results. According to Mercola, Quest's values are 25-40% higher than the DiaSorin assay, so I need to calibrate my results.


----------



## Jewel2

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 

Oh hey, and speaking of signs of healing, I don't know if anyone's seen this but me, but early on, I stumbled across the oddity that my body temperature would _drop_ after I got out of bed in the morning. It was very repeatable--say my BBT before getting out of bed would be 97.2 and then I'd get up, go to the bathroom, and come back and re-take it (I stumbled on this by accident, I just had time to kill one morning and wanted to see how fast my temp would go up, since not moving around before taking a BBT was stressed so much) and my temp would have dropped to, say 96.2 and occasionally into the high 95s (at its worst, it was a 1.0-1.5F drop). I think this is analogous to the blood pressure test (take it lying down, and then if it drops immediately after you stand up, bad news for your adrenals). But I have no idea if they change at the same time (or if the body temp thing is really just me).


Hi I'm the same, my temps would always drop after getting out of bed. Now, some days it drops, other days it rises. I never know quite when to take my temp in the morning - I'm awake in the early dark hours (unable to get back to sleep), but don't usually drag myself out of bed until after 9am.

Jewel


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## dhammamama

Did the holiday season throw anyone besides me off their good habits?!??!







: I tried so hard not to let them affect me, but the intense energy is in the air I think.

ugh. I need to get back with my better self care, but it's hard not to feel too discouraged. One little step, one day at a time, right?


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dhammamama* 
ugh. I need to get back with my better self care, but it's hard not to feel too discouraged. One little step, one day at a time, right?

Health all starts and ends with Self-care, imo.

Pat


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## tanyalynn

This is two years in a row that all the good routines fell apart with Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's. It's frustrating to have to do more than most people to feel, well, not even as good as them. For me, it took quite a while to realize that hey, I think I'm making progress. It's slow, the process downhill to get here was certainly slow and gradual (and insidious), but just slowly getting back to the things that will take care of yourself _will_ eventually pay off. My biggest goal (again) is to start getting to sleep earlier. That's the one that makes me happier within just a couple days, but it's also hard to maintain.


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## MyLittleWonders

So, I think my cycles are becoming more irregular and it's starting to bug me. I have always had pretty regular, 28 day cycles. When my cycle returned this time (18 months ppd), it was a bit irregular, but began evening out. I think before I began supplementing in November, I would have some mid-cycle spotting or spotting after being with dh. Now it's getting more frequent and this month, seems to be extending after my period should be done.







: I'm supplementing DHEA - could this have any thing to do with it? Or, is it residual symptoms from a very stressful holiday season? Is it just something I'm going to have to deal with now until I'm closer to being all healed?


----------



## bigeyes

I'd say yes. DHEA is a precursor to estrogen, iirc. I can't take it because it gives me migraines. I had a doc mistakenly decide I was in early menopause and give me estrogen once and it gave me migraines as well.

So it would make sense to me that it affects your cycle.









http://www.womentowomen.com/adrenalfatigue/dhea.aspx

I think this link might shed some light on it. I think I'm estrogen dominant, which is why progesterone helps my migraines by balancing me out.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

That was a good article - from the sounds of it, maybe my body is converting the DHEA in a way different than how my ND intended it to be. Hmm ... I'm going to call her today and see if maybe I should trial run a time period without it. I've been on it for almost 2 months and have not noticed any difference, in a positive way, and only have noticed more spotting before and after my period, which is definitely not a positive difference.


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## Annikate

:hello: I have been lurking here on and off for a couple of years (has it really been that long!)

I've suspected adrenal fatigue and yesterday got confirmation. Not only that but also that my thyroid isn't functioning.

I have virtually no DHEA and took my first supp this morning - along w/my first thyroid med (Nature Thyroid).

I also have no cortisol - or at least none detectable.







No wonder I dislike mornings!









I have an adrenal supp too in the form of royal jelly.

<sigh> Looks like I'll be a more frequent lurker here.


----------



## tanyalynn

Annikate--welcome, sorry you're here, but glad to have you.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I don't know about balancing blood pressure, but this could be a good place to start:
http://www.psha-inc.com/guai-support/sf/TasteTests.htm

I had to jump back to this (early Nov discussion). It talks about ways to use specific things for taste testing whether we're deficient. Epsom salts for magnesium (a specific amt in a specific amt of water), regular salt (we don't have any, just sea salt that has other minerals too, so although we tried it, I don't think we have real results) and I didn't search out potassium chloride to try that.

Interesting, but not shocking results, my husband (who I was mostly interested in for this) thought the epsom salt drink tasted very different than I did, looks like he's magnesium deficient and I'm not (I _have_ been supplementing for several years now, but I think the big difference is our metabolisms). My daughter still has a hard time getting to sleep at night without some magnesium at bedtime and we've been supp-ing for years (obviously need to think about increasing the dose)--she's a little clone of him. My son doesn't have this (he takes more after me).

So, thank you, WhoMe, this was cool. I think I'm going to try to get some salt from a fast food place (those little tube packets) to try the salt thing on my husband next.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
:hello: I have been lurking here on and off for a couple of years (has it really been that long!)

I've suspected adrenal fatigue and yesterday got confirmation. Not only that but also that my thyroid isn't functioning.

I have virtually no DHEA and took my first supp this morning - along w/my first thyroid med (Nature Thyroid).

I also have no cortisol - or at least none detectable.







No wonder I dislike mornings!









I have an adrenal supp too in the form of royal jelly.

<sigh> Looks like I'll be a more frequent lurker here.









Welcome to our tribe.









Well, I talked with my ND yesterday. I do so love her; she is trying to go through all that I'm taking supplement wise, and seeing if we need to reword anything. For now, she has me stopping the DHEA, and the herbal-based AdreneVive. She said since we have now cut all dairy/casein, my sinus issues should be better, so she might have me start an herbal formula for that, and she mentioned the possibility of putting me on pregnenolone to see if it helps balance out my hormones and regulate my cycles a bit.

It's interesting because when she first started me on the DHEA, I had a slight internal hesistation. But, I also trust her and thought I'd give it a go for a while. But after 2 months, I would think that there'd be some forward movement, and there hasn't been any. So, I feel right about stopping it.

For now, I'm sticking with the multi, the vit. D, the B-complex, B12, a Traditional Chinese blend called Serenegan (I like that one), and I'm getting back to the Cal/Mag + extra Mag in the morning and a small amount more of Mag at night, plus restarting the CLO. Oh, and I'm still taking the Phosphatidylserine (sp?) at night, which really helps with sleeping.


----------



## Annikate

Have any of you heard of peptide shots for this? Apparently it's some new way of injecting amino acids into your bone marrow. I'm not crazy about it, though my husband is having them for his thyroid issues and they're really helping him. My intuition says no for me.

Just wondering if anyone else has experience with or knowledge about these.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Terri, I haven't heard of that, but reading your description made me immediately say, "ouch!".


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I had to jump back to this (early Nov discussion). It talks about ways to use specific things for taste testing whether we're deficient. Epsom salts for magnesium (a specific amt in a specific amt of water), regular salt (we don't have any, just sea salt that has other minerals too, so although we tried it, I don't think we have real results) and I didn't search out potassium chloride to try that.

...

So, thank you, WhoMe, this was cool. I think I'm going to try to get some salt from a fast food place (those little tube packets) to try the salt thing on my husband next.









I thought it was fun, too! I didn't worry about salt vs sea salt - the sea salt tasted good enough on EVERYTHING I was eating, that I didn't have to even do that test. I *did* go get some 'no salt' though - and had a really hard time finding it! Both dh and I spat it out - it tasted like rotten soap







Maybe I could find it and mail you some


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 







I thought it was fun, too! I didn't worry about salt vs sea salt - the sea salt tasted good enough on EVERYTHING I was eating, that I didn't have to even do that test. I *did* go get some 'no salt' though - and had a really hard time finding it! Both dh and I spat it out - it tasted like rotten soap







Maybe I could find it and mail you some

Is that the stuff for people on sodium restricted diets or something? If it is, my gran and an uncle both used it and I have to agree with you and your dh's assessment. It *does* taste like rotten soap.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Is that the stuff for people on sodium restricted diets or something? If it is, my gran and an uncle both used it and I have to agree with you and your dh's assessment. It *does* taste like rotten soap.

But other people may think it tastes good--it's potassium chloride, and all of us on this thread are probably really imbalanced with potassium and sodium, yk? Though I can't tell with my husband and sodium--seems like he _should_ be out of balance like all of us, but he doesn't have the low blood pressure thing, I'm wondering if the magnesium is part of that.... naptime over...


----------



## Theloose

Hey, so has anyone else tried supping with pantothenic acid like I'm always going on about? Cause I'm curious if it's a my adrenals-specific thing, or if there's a main mechanism behind adrenal burnout. It makes such a huge difference for me, and I could stop pushing it to others if I knew it was just *my* magic bullet...


----------



## Theloose

Quote:

Is that the stuff for people on sodium restricted diets or something? If it is, my gran and an uncle both used it and I have to agree with you and your dh's assessment. It *does* taste like rotten soap.
that's the stuff!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
But other people may think it tastes good--it's potassium chloride, and all of us on this thread are probably really imbalanced with potassium and sodium, yk?

And that's what I figure, too - I bet the people who use it and like it are in the resistance stage of adrenal fatigue, when all the adrenal hormones are high, so they're retaining sodium like crazy and really *need* the potassium.
Speaking of which, I had a bad sore throat this week, and for the first time, tried gargling salt water. Wow, that's effective! I'd never tried it before, because the idea of having to taste the salt water was









Quote:

Though I can't tell with my husband and sodium--seems like he _should_ be out of balance like all of us, but he doesn't have the low blood pressure thing, I'm wondering if the magnesium is part of that...
It seems like there are so many things that all help regulate blood pressure - maybe he's just more balanced out? Like he could have risk factors for high BP, but because of low aldosterone, he's just normal?


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
It seems like there are so many things that all help regulate blood pressure - maybe he's just more balanced out? Like he could have risk factors for high BP, but because of low aldosterone, he's just normal?

this is exactly what i suspect, high BP does run in his family, but his adrenals are so messed up his BP _should_ be low but is not. our HCP said to take magnesium and choline citrate for high BP, but it's only fairly recently that he's been good about it (choline citrate is liquid, at least ours is, and it's quite sour) and we haven't checked the BP.. really running now


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
But other people may think it tastes good--it's potassium chloride, and all of us on this thread are probably really imbalanced with potassium and sodium, yk? Though I can't tell with my husband and sodium--seems like he _should_ be out of balance like all of us, but he doesn't have the low blood pressure thing, I'm wondering if the magnesium is part of that.... naptime over...

I know my potassium levels are way low. I've been trying to balance my mag/cal potassium levels on my own for . . . geesh. Way too long. 3 or more years. I did get a potassium supp.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Hey, so has anyone else tried supping with pantothenic acid like I'm always going on about? Cause I'm curious if it's a my adrenals-specific thing, or if there's a main mechanism behind adrenal burnout. It makes such a huge difference for me, and I could stop pushing it to others if I knew it was just *my* magic bullet...

Yes! A deficiency in pantothenic acid can cause adrenal changes. Of course, for most of us (I'd venture to say) we're deficient in lots of other things too.

I have a pantothenic supp too - going to start tomorrow. I think it's pa alone and not in combo w/anything else.

I've got so many here!







:


----------



## Metasequoia

Dr. Neville said someone referred on this thread had an appt at Clymer - cool!

I went yesterday & we went over my lab work. I'm flying high on his comment that he wished all of his patients had the same results. He loved my cholesterol panel & told me to mention to my Woodlands doc what my diet is like.







He said my cholesterol was *perfect* & "and I know what you eat!" Gotta love the WAPF doctors, lol.

My bo was 115-110-120, so it dropped some, even though it should rise 10 points, but I've much worse.

We talked about how I feel worse leading up to & during ovulation & although my hormone levels looked dang near perfect, they reflected the luteal phase, not the fillicular phase. He's wondering if I'm reacting to the estrogen surge right before ovulation.
So, we're doing another ASI (it'll be a yr in March or April anyway) & to cut costs, he only ordered cortisol but added a male hormone panel to see if my body is rapidly converting DHEA into a male hormone ('cause I've gotten hairy like a gorilla, baby.







) If this is the case, he said there are some thing we can use to balance out my hormones, among them, saw palmetto & nettles. I was just reading one of Susun Weed's books the other day & how beneficial nettles are for adrenal patients - and sea vegetables too. I drank a lot of nettle tea while pregnant for the vit k & I think I'll get back into that.

I wonder if a slight progesterone supp would help balance out the estrogen surges before ovulation (if that's what is causing this weirdness with ovulation) - but we'll see what the ASI - male hormone test shows first.

And, since my vit D is low, I'm to add 2000 iu to my daily dose of 1 tsp Blue Ice clo. I picked up some D-mulsion at my primary doc's yesterday & started taking it immediately. They didn't have the 1000 iu drops, just the 400 iu, so I'll take 4 drops daily, along with the clo & will give each of my children 1 drop, plus clo.

Oh, oh!! I'm on day 4 of no coffee!!!!!! I feel sooooooooo much better. I don't know why it took me so long except dang, that stuff is addictve! I don't feel so groggy in the mornings & I notice that I get sleepy in the afternoon, around 1ish. I am going to try *really* hard to nap when I feel so tired since that's what my body wants & needs. Normally, I'd drink a cup of caffeinated tea but that's just pushing my adrenals harder.
I've been having one cup of jasmine green tea in the morning & that's it. No headaches at all. This tea usually has a calming affect, but it does still contain some caffeine, so ultimately, I'd like to switch to something else. I'll start slowly by pouring hot water over the leaves into the sink so I reduce the caffeine. Hot nettle tea would be a great replacement, but I'd like to add a variety of teas - maybe some RRL too. I've been having chamomile late in the day which makes me a little sleepy, but calm is good.

I spent some time on the menopause board the other day & found a lot of women with a description of "heart palps, muscle aches, fatigue, weird thoughts, vision problems" etc. So then I wonder - do they ALL have adrenal insufficiency (probably, lol) or is it just the hormonal imbalance that is the common denominator - some caused by adrenal issues, some caused by peri-menopause? Many of these women found great relief of physical symptoms with anti-depressants - they said they felt like their old selves. This is so interesting to me but I don't understand the mechanism in the relationship between ADs & relief of physical pain (if you're not actually depressed.) Some of these ADs weren't SSRIs - so I hesitate to say serotonin.


----------



## Metasequoia

Oh, and Dr. Neville mentioned that Oprah claims she's cured of her thyroid problems - guess someone filled him in (can't picture him watching Oprah, lol.) Anyway, he said that a bunch of viewers told her that her thyroid isn't "cured" & that it's her adrenals at the root of her problem. I told him he should go on Oprah & tell the world about adrenal fatigue.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Oh, and Dr. Neville mentioned that Oprah claims she's cured of her thyroid problems - guess someone filled him in (can't picture him watching Oprah, lol.) Anyway, he said that a bunch of viewers told her that her thyroid isn't "cured" & that it's her adrenals at the root of her problem. I told him he should go on Oprah & tell the world about adrenal fatigue.









Seriously!







I mean she's coming out and talking about hormonal replacement, I think adrenal fatigue should be on her list too!


----------



## Periwinkle

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Oh, oh!! I'm on day 4 of no coffee!!!!!! I feel sooooooooo much better. I don't know why it took me so long except dang, that stuff is addictve! I don't feel so groggy in the mornings & I notice that I get sleepy in the afternoon, around 1ish. I am going to try *really* hard to nap when I feel so tired since that's what my body wants & needs. Normally, I'd drink a cup of caffeinated tea but that's just pushing my adrenals harder.









I'm on day 2 of no coffee! I read (at someone's suggestion on this thread) _Caffeine Blues_ about a week ago and used their checklist to determine two things. First, that I was drinking WAAAAY more caffeine than I thought I was... as in 3-4 "cups" a day of drip coffee where 1 cup = 10 oz.







: And second, that I have A LOT of symptoms of too much caffeine and though my adrenals aren't shot, they sure are getting a workout.

The other thing for me is coffee is my one remaining source of artificial sweeteners. I use Sweet n Low in my coffee







and I know that 3-4 packets a day of the stuff just cannot be good. I haven't had diet soda in a long time, but my Sweet n Low / coffee habit had to go.

So I had really wanted to get rid of it altogether but hadn't gotten the willpower to do it, and then I caught the kids' stomach bug 2 days ago. I had a crashing headache (NOT a typical stomach virus symptom and was kind of laugjing to myself, hey, if I'm going through detox all miserable here in bed anyway, might as well not start coffee again).

So this morning I was feeling nearly better but didn't have any coffee.

And... I just got back from Martindale's where I stocked up on some of the caffeine-free suggestions that Stephen Cherniske made in that book:

Teeccino - Mediterranean Mocha flavor - 75% organic, and contains dates, carob, & almonds, three foods/tastes I adore so :fingers: that I like it
Equal Exchange brand Redbush tea (a.k.a. rooibos) - organic /fair trade AND comes in a compostable teabag








Organic rooibos-based Chai tea - I love chai but most chai teas are black-tea based... but I found this one based on just rooibos so it's 100% caf-free
Decaf (via Swiss H2O Process) fair trade / organic / shade grown / locally-roasted







(how many buzzwords can one label have, lol!) coffee - has less caffeine per cup than green tea and I figured I could do half decaf coffee and half mocha teeccino for a yummy nearly-caf-free blend just in case I can't stand the teeccino by itself.
I'll be doing some taste tests today and I'll let you all know how it goes!

I should say that I am a HUGE coffee snob








and am not someone who one would ever think would go for an herbal coffee (or decaf coffee for that matter) so we'll see. I'd like to try to find something yummy (and refined sugar-free) to drink in the morning because I do so love the coffee habit of having something warm and aromatic in the cup, and tea just doesn't do it for me.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Have you considered stevia instead of the sweet'n'low?


----------



## Periwinkle

Just brewed and tried the Teeccino. For reference, this is the one I bought today.

Mediterranean group of flavors: Mocha
Information on this product from the company: "Tasting Notes: The richness of roasted almonds layers a delicious nuttiness over a robust, full-bodied brew lightly accented with the sweetness of dates and figs. Perfect for those who normally put sugar in their coffee; many find it unnecessary to sweeten the Mediterranean flavors. // I know few people who don't have a secret chocoholic side to their personality. I like to say that chocolate is my drug of choice when I want an adrenal rush. Fortunately in Teeccino, there's just enough cocoa powder to deliver that desirable chocolate flavor, but without noticeable stimulation from Theobromine, chocolate's main stimulant. Caffeine is such a small part of cocoa that it doesn't show up in a cup of Teeccino. So when you want to indulge that chocolate craving without the calories or the fat, you can safely find refuge in Mocha! By the way, coffee lovers, who are adapting their taste buds to herbal coffee, find that Mocha can make that transition easier. Chocolate makes Teeccino taste ever so familiar. We find that coffee drinkers who say they don't like any flavors, love both Mocha and Maya Chocolaté. Really now, who can resist the chocolate temptation?"

I made 10 oz. using 1 rounded tablespoon as per the instructions, and a gold-cone coffee filter in my drip coffee pot.

Process: Identical to making coffee

Aroma: Like a really dark flourless chocolate cake, almost a little like Baker's chocolate (a little chocolately, but bitter).

Color: Identical to coffee

Taste black: Too licorice-y for my taste and too bitter (note: I NEVER drink coffee black so I may not be a good one to judge!)

Taste w/ a generous amount of Natural by Nature half-n-half: SUPRISINGLY good. And as a bonus for me trying to quit the Sweet n Low habit too, it is really sweet enough already (thanks to the dates and carob I guess) that I don't need to add any sweetener.

Notes: The 10 oz. of water made a smallish amount of my large coffee mug. I never knew until I read that "Caffeine Blues" book and did their test that my (seemingly very normal-sized) favorite mug held 14 oz. of coffee. Ugh. Anyway, I would probably make 12 oz. of Teeccino next time, upping the amount used to 2+ tablespoons. I think I'd like it a little stronger too.

DH taste-test: "It tastes like coffee with Bailey's in it." Which is actually pretty close!

*Overall I'd say very good for a coffee alternative, but IMO it takes a good amount of cream to get there.* I also suspect that mixing Teeccino 50/50 with coffee (decaf) would produce FAR better flavor. The author suggests trying it during the weaning stage, and gradually increasing the proportion of Teeccino to wean off slowly.


----------



## Periwinkle

This morning I brewed a small pot (4 "cups" = 2 mugfuls) using 1 tbs. of the new swiss water decaf I found + 3 tbs. of Teeccino mocha. It was REALLY good. Though I'm not sure the decaf coffee in that small amount added much, it was delish and again so glad to be done with Sweet n Low.

Sitting here enjoying a cup of Rooibos Chai tea, which is phenomenal. So great and I'm relieved it doesn't taste like an herbal tea, it actually tastes mostly like black tea-based chai. A dab of raw honey and a splash of cream and it's a real treat.









I felt really tired today at 1:30 (day 3 of no caffeine). Of course that could have something to do with being up half the night with sick kids. It's January... stomach bug season in PA.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I know my potassium levels are way low. I've been trying to balance my mag/cal potassium levels on my own for . . . geesh. Way too long. 3 or more years. I did get a potassium supp.


I know there's a lot of variability between us all, but for most of us (the adrenally-challenged) our sodium-potassium balance is off, but the sodium is low, because our bodies are excreting such a high proportion of what we consume. Definitely go by your symptoms, but I think for many of us, a potassium supp would make us feel worse (some people notice it with foods like bananas and potatoes).


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Hey, so has anyone else tried supping with pantothenic acid like I'm always going on about? Cause I'm curious if it's a my adrenals-specific thing, or if there's a main mechanism behind adrenal burnout. It makes such a huge difference for me, and I could stop pushing it to others if I knew it was just *my* magic bullet...

The only reason I haven't tried it yet with my husband is that I've already been tweaking a couple things for him lately, and he's _okay_ with all these pills, but not thrilled. But I'm keeping it in my back pocket for trying in a couple months.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I know there's a lot of variability between us all, but for most of us (the adrenally-challenged) our sodium-potassium balance is off, but the sodium is low, because our bodies are excreting such a high proportion of what we consume. Definitely go by your symptoms, but I think for many of us, a potassium supp would make us feel worse (some people notice it with foods like bananas and potatoes).

Interesting. I almost always crave salt. More around ovulation and pms time. And in the past whenever I had a banana at night time, I'd get wicked leg cramps. Adding mag seems to have helped somewhat but didn't take them away completely.

And another 'huh' - I have never done well w/potatoes, I just figured it was a gut thing (which I'm sure it is - partially) but I never thought of it in re: to the potassium.

Man, you learn something new every day dontcha? Thanks Tanya.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Well, I went back to my doctor of Oriental medicine today; it seems my body is one big infection.







Most of it is located in my bladder (recurrent bladder infection), some in my colon, and some in my throat. My body has been so run down that I'm having trouble kicking the infections completely. So ... I'm taking yet more Chinese herbs (yum!







) and she mixed them a bit differently this time. Plus, I'm taking them 5x a day instead of 3! I also just ordered one pound of sodium ascorbate - I'm supposed to take about 4000 mg a day. My ND also added a couple things to my (and dh's) supplements: SAMe, 5HTP, and a couple other things. And, I think I need to cut all refined sugar and most of the starches (though I do love potatoes, but now it makes sense that I need that much more salt when I eat them). I'm wishing it was closer to spring; I think I'd be up for going 75% raw. Right now though I still want cooked food, though I'm noticing that meat is sounding less and less appealing (though chicken and fish still sound good). My OMD did say that I'm processing through these infections quickly (I think time is all relative ... it's been 5 weeks already on the Chinese herbs; I think I was expecting overnight success!), and that I need to stick in there a bit longer. I'm going back to her next weekend for some cranial-sacral work.







The biggest thing right now, I think, is that I need to go to bed by 10pm every night. I just need to make myself go to bed, even if I just got the kids in bed 15 minutes earlier.


----------



## Annikate

About the 10 pm thing . . . I was just today thinking the same thing. I do feel TONS better the next morning when I'm asleep by 10-10:15 at the latest.

Unfortunately I'm hooked on mindless late night tv lately. We have the $10 basic cable, but there are some good shows on there after 10. King of Queens, Everybody Loves Raymond, Seinfeld.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

We tend to go to bed and finally watch Keith Olbermann (







) and then tend to switch on John Stewart ... it all goes downhill from there and the next thing I know, it's midnight.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I know there's a lot of variability between us all, but for most of us (the adrenally-challenged) our sodium-potassium balance is off, but the sodium is low, because our bodies are excreting such a high proportion of what we consume. Definitely go by your symptoms, but I think for many of us, a potassium supp would make us feel worse (some people notice it with foods like bananas and potatoes).









:

Tanya, I posted in a couple of threads in TF, about my suspicion that I've been experiencing reactive (postprandial) hypoglycemia - but I have to wonder if the potassium is also at play here. The insulin overload makes more sense, symptom wise (I think), but I've known for years that potassium makes me feel like crap & lots of sea salt always makes me feel better.

The other night I (was out) ate a chicken breast, french fries (contaminated, I know) & a glass of merlot. Then I came home & had a banana with peanut butter because like I said in that thread in TF about a week ago, I get cravings after dinner. The banana was about 1/2 hr after the chicken & fries.

SO, I wonder if it was an insulin overload from the fries & banana or if it was a potassium overload, or a little of both. About half way through the banana, I got heart palps & rapid breathing. Sounds like an anxiety attack, I know, but all of the symptoms I experience after a carby meal are listed as reactive hypoglycemia (low blood sugar after eating as a result of too much insulin.)

I guess I should just stay away from potatoes & bananas.

What's interesting though is that I have no problem at all after my daily kefir smoothie which is raw milk kefir, blueberries & 1.5 bananas - and then the smoothie is split 4 ways. So maybe it's just a small enough serving of banana or maybe it's all of the fat in the kefir - but I'm okay with it.

Lots to chew on....

Oh & Periwinkle, I had no problem not having sweetener in my coffee as long as I used either cream or raw milk with enough cream in it.

Have you ever tried Dandy Blend? It has barley, but the website claims that there are no detectable traces of gluten in the brewed beverage. I've had it before & liked it enough with plenty of cream. I was thinking of getting some & brewing it like Mexican coffee - with cloves, cinnamon & pepper.


----------



## dhammamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Hey, so has anyone else tried supping with pantothenic acid like I'm always going on about? Cause I'm curious if it's a my adrenals-specific thing, or if there's a main mechanism behind adrenal burnout. It makes such a huge difference for me, and I could stop pushing it to others if I knew it was just *my* magic bullet...

I take pantothenic acid(500mg per day). I haven't noticed specific benefit from it to be honest. But I still take it, so who knows!


----------



## dhammamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
This is two years in a row that all the good routines fell apart with Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's. It's frustrating to have to do more than most people to feel, well, not even as good as them. For me, it took quite a while to realize that hey, I think I'm making progress. It's slow, the process downhill to get here was certainly slow and gradual (and insidious), but just slowly getting back to the things that will take care of yourself _will_ eventually pay off. My biggest goal (again) is to start getting to sleep earlier. That's the one that makes me happier within just a couple days, but it's also hard to maintain.


I'm doing a little better with self care (supplements, eating regularly, exercise, good sleep habits etc)..... anyone else recovering from the holidays?

Sleep is tough because I've got a teen. When she rolls in from school activities with so much energy I have a hard time not absorbing it, and being wired for hours. She of course falls asleep (and stays asleep!) easily.

I was taking 500mcg melatonin, but even at that low dose it leaves me dopey. 5HTP is a little better for me.

I'm curious about l-theanine for helping with sleep. Does anyone use it? Jacob Teitelbaum has a supplement blend with it and valerian (as well as other things) "Revitalizing Sleep Formula" that I'd like to try but the cost is holding me back. I guess it's a GABA precursor? Anyone using GABA?


----------



## dhammamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
We tend to go to bed and finally watch Keith Olbermann (







) and then tend to switch on John Stewart ... it all goes downhill from there and the next thing I know, it's midnight.









I know this slide!!! That's why I catch TDS/TCR the next day in reruns.








Not as much fun, but if I don't get the TV off early, resolve is harder to dig up.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dhammamama* 
I'm curious about l-theanine for helping with sleep. Does anyone use it? Jacob Teitelbaum has a supplement blend with it and valerian (as well as other things) "Revitalizing Sleep Formula" that I'd like to try but the cost is holding me back. I guess it's a GABA precursor? Anyone using GABA?

I've used L-theanine. If I have a lot on my mind or just a lot of stress, I've taken a couple L-theanine capsules along with a couple Seriphos & have slept pretty darn well. But I don't generally have a hard time falling asleep or staying asleep.

When I do wake in the middle of the night - not on my own, usually Ds asking for milk, I sometimes get a rapid heartbeat & start thinking about stressful things like money or the to-do list. I've been thinking about valerian, but am not sure I can take it while nursing & am not really sure that I need it.

I'm really just looking for something to KEEP me calm throughout the day & throughout stressful situations (I swear that ex-dp is trying to kill me with stress.)

Can you take 5-HTP while nursing an almost 3-yr old?

I keep reading about women with chronic pain who get relief from anti-depressants & they "feel like themselves again!" This is so tempting, but I know it's just a band-aid approach. But that doesn't stop me from thinking of alternative, natural mood enhancers.


----------



## SUNMAMA

Hello Everyone,

I've been lurking here for a while and read alot of the thread, its full of info. I thank you, I've learned alot.

So, I took a saliva test last April and discovered my adrenals are producing almost no cortisol, on the verge of addisons and my progesterone is low and testosterone high among other things, I'm taking ACE, licorice and B5 for my adrenals, plus a spray progesterone and have good days and bad days, this is so hard to manage. I would love to find a doctor to work with but am waiting to move. I'm going to do another saliva test next month to see what's happening with my body.

About the 5 HTP while nursing, I started using it when my dd was 3 and I'm still using it and she's still nursing at 5, I haven't seen any ill effects but have read that tryptophan is a better choice for nursing mothers. My accupuncturist/midwife didn't see any problems with the 5 HTP while I was nursing an older child but I am going to try the tryptophan when I run out of the 5 HTP to see if it helps me more, I still have depression and irritability but my hormones play a huge part in that I think for me.
Thanks for being here!


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I keep reading about women with chronic pain who get relief from anti-depressants & they "feel like themselves again!" This is so tempting, but I know it's just a band-aid approach. But that doesn't stop me from thinking of alternative, natural mood enhancers.

The latest Wise Traditions talks about endorphins and the immune system and feeling better... Check out www.lowdosenaltrexone.com. In a nutshell, endorphins make you happy, AND support your immune system to make you healthy. Endorphins also promote the release of dopamine, which is another feel-good chemical that tends to be low. There are several natural ways to promote the release of both of these, and they range from novelty-seeking to acupuncture to UV sunlight, to just getting out of the house and *doing* something to INTENSE exercise to sex. Obviously not all of those choices are great for someone with AF, but things like acupuncture and sunlight are pretty low impact! Just reading the lists inspires me to get out of the house, which of course, doesn't always happen, but the motivation is there!

Anyway, this is just a long way of saying don't forget the lifestyle changes, they can have very real affects on your mood!


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dhammamama* 
I take pantothenic acid(500mg per day). I haven't noticed specific benefit from it to be honest. But I still take it, so who knows!

I just checked and I'm only taking a total of 200mg of pantothenic acid between my multi and the extra that is in another supplement I take. I take so many different things that I have no idea what is helping or not. But, I do think overall I'm feeling better than I was a month or two ago.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I've used L-theanine. If I have a lot on my mind or just a lot of stress, I've taken a couple L-theanine capsules along with a couple Seriphos & have slept pretty darn well. But I don't generally have a hard time falling asleep or staying asleep.

When I do wake in the middle of the night - not on my own, usually Ds asking for milk, I sometimes get a rapid heartbeat & start thinking about stressful things like money or the to-do list. I've been thinking about valerian, but am not sure I can take it while nursing & am not really sure that I need it.

I'm really just looking for something to KEEP me calm throughout the day & throughout stressful situations (I swear that ex-dp is trying to kill me with stress.)

Can you take 5-HTP while nursing an almost 3-yr old?

I keep reading about women with chronic pain who get relief from anti-depressants & they "feel like themselves again!" This is so tempting, but I know it's just a band-aid approach. But that doesn't stop me from thinking of alternative, natural mood enhancers.

I have taken 5-HTP on and off while nursing two different kiddos and have never noticed any side affects in them. I'm taking it again now in one of my supplements.

Have you heard of Serenagen? I have been using it and really think it is working. I take 2 in the morning and one more at night. My ND gave it to me, and then my Doctor of Oriental Medicine confirmed that it is a good one to take.


----------



## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I've been thinking about valerian, but am not sure I can take it while nursing & am not really sure that I need it.

My former midwife was also an herbalist. She said it's safe to take valerian while nursing (baby/toddler may get a bit sleepy, too). BUT she told me I shouldn't take it because of my low blood pressure. It lowers bp even further, and that's not very safe for me (explains why the valerian I took before my first pregnancy TOTALLY knocked me out). She suggested skullcap instead. She said it's safe while nursing (and during pregnancy). It worked pretty well for me, and it didn't knock me out, either. Honey works really well for me now, so I rarely ever take skullcap anymore except to dull my headaches, and for my recent tooth extraction.

BTW, my raw honey sometimes gives me a little boost during the day when I'm needing it. I only eat less than a teaspoon. At bed I only eat between a half and a teaspoon.

Quote:

I'm really just looking for something to KEEP me calm throughout the day & throughout stressful situations (I swear that ex-dp is trying to kill me with stress.)
Since skullcap doesn't knock me out, I've taken it for keeping calm sometimes (although I usually don't have anyone actively trying to raise my stress - just the ILs sometimes







). You might want to try it. Come to think of it, maybe I ought to try it when the kids bring me to the point of totally losing it - yesterday would have been a good day to try it.


----------



## Periwinkle

Hi everyone. I wanted to let you know I started a blog about my efforts going 100% caffeine free. I'm on day 10 today... so far so.... *weird*! It's not what I expected. It's going really well, but it's strange.

http://www.xanga.com/BlooMarine

(Warning: it's my first blog ever, so pardon the layout, etc etc)


----------



## nichole

I was wondering if anyone here has tried a cinnamon extract supplement for their blood sugar. I'm not that tired during the day anymore as long as I get a decent night's sleep. However, maintaining good blood sugar can be difficult.

The other problem I have been having is stress and anxiety. This has gotten tons better, but I still have to do some self help things.

It is hard to get anything done when you go to bed early then spend half your day eating snacks and trying to destress lol.

I do tend to be more anxious leading up to ovulation. My cycles keep getting shorter. This cycle was only 25 days. I've started charting so maybe I will learn something.


----------



## MommyHawk

not sure what to do from now on. I used to take licorice and tons of supplements until I felt better, and I do for the most part, but now I'm not sure what to do. I take salt in the morning, sometime 3x's during the day or more and I feel really dizzy/lightheaded during the end of my cycle (aka: that time of the month). But then I feel fine the rest of the month with only taking salt occasionally...is this a cycle thing? Maybe my adrenals are healed and now I'm back to square one? I'm obviously still low aldosterone, hence the need for more salt, but...when does this stop?

Maybe that's my real question...when does this all stop? when can I no longer need a butt load of salt intake every day and feel normal?







:


----------



## Theloose

Um... We've been going nuts in the allergies forum and it's all the same issues here, too...
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...2#post13172442


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Um... We've been going nuts in the allergies forum and it's all the same issues here, too...
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...2#post13172442

I feel I must forewarn you, before clicking on that thread: Please be sure your seat is in the upright and locked position. Your cushion can be used as a flotation device.


----------



## Theloose

Seriously


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I feel I must forewarn you, before clicking on that thread: Please be sure your seat is in the upright and locked position. Your cushion can be used as a flotation device.



















Sounds like that remedy is making you feel good!







:

Pat


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 









Sounds like that remedy is making you feel good!







:

Pat

I hadn't made the connection. I've been having a really good day.








Time to go and update in the Homeopathy thread.


----------



## tanyalynn

Nichole, I've heard of supp-ing chromium for blood sugar issues, but no experience and I've read the same about cinnamon but haven't done it, and my husband's taking something, is the l-glutamate for blood sugar? I can't find my notes. I was okay enough just eating regular meals and snacks that included a lot of meat (meatballs were portable and tasty).

My luteal phase seems related to my adrenals, it got longer as I felt like my adrenals were getting better (and has only been holding steady since I got my amalgams out). No real suggestions, but maybe it'll help something else connect for you.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchy_mama* 
I haven't posted in awhile and find this all interesting. Especially the salicylate connection. We have been on low salicylate for Feingold, but have been trying to add some back in.... I tried adding lots of various supplements, but found the B complex makes me feel worse. I need to read moer about the B5- I know you were talking about something causing an increased need for it.

Right now I am only taking the calm in the evening (3t)- no digestive issue, clo sometimes, vit c SA sometimes. However, I have added brazil nuts for selenium, has been nearly 2 weeks now I think. For the first time in a long time I feel happy. It is such an odd thing. I also finally feel like exercising again and have and had good endurance. My period came without the spotting this time as well. I wonder how much of this change can be attributed to the selenium. I have also tread the candida as well, which very well may be part of it.

I find it very interesting about the veggies as well, makes my life easier as a mother!!

I just saw this. I read a book that claimed salicylates cause fibromyalgia also. I may have to try this and see if it helps me.

I can't find it but I could have sworn it was in this thread where someone suggested I try Yerba Mate...does anyone else remember that?


----------



## nichole

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Nichole, I've heard of supp-ing chromium for blood sugar issues, but no experience and I've read the same about cinnamon but haven't done it, and my husband's taking something, is the l-glutamate for blood sugar? I can't find my notes. I was okay enough just eating regular meals and snacks that included a lot of meat (meatballs were portable and tasty).

My luteal phase seems related to my adrenals, it got longer as I felt like my adrenals were getting better (and has only been holding steady since I got my amalgams out). No real suggestions, but maybe it'll help something else connect for you.

Thanks! I'm actually cta, so I'm okay with not being able to get pregnant. BUT I'm just really curious. As I keep charting I will know more about whether I'm even ovulating at all.


----------



## Metasequoia

I've been looking for bumps on this thread for a while now & am SO glad it's moving along again. And I LOVE when someone is on to something & we fit more pieces into the puzzle. I'll have to share this with my ND & see what he has to say...

I just had to quote a bunch of posts...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristieB* 
My former midwife was also an herbalist. She said it's safe to take valerian while nursing (baby/toddler may get a bit sleepy, too). BUT she told me I shouldn't take it because of my low blood pressure. It lowers bp even further, and that's not very safe for me (explains why the valerian I took before my first pregnancy TOTALLY knocked me out). She suggested skullcap instead. She said it's safe while nursing (and during pregnancy). It worked pretty well for me, and it didn't knock me out, either. Honey works really well for me now, so I rarely ever take skullcap anymore except to dull my headaches, and for my recent tooth extraction.

BTW, my raw honey sometimes gives me a little boost during the day when I'm needing it. I only eat less than a teaspoon. At bed I only eat between a half and a teaspoon.

Since skullcap doesn't knock me out, I've taken it for keeping calm sometimes (although I usually don't have anyone actively trying to raise my stress - just the ILs sometimes







). You might want to try it. Come to think of it, maybe I ought to try it when the kids bring me to the point of totally losing it - yesterday would have been a good day to try it.

Thank you for this, ChristieB - I almost bought some valerian tea & the last thing I need is lower BP.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
I was wondering if anyone here has tried a cinnamon extract supplement for their blood sugar. I'm not that tired during the day anymore as long as I get a decent night's sleep. However, maintaining good blood sugar can be difficult.

The other problem I have been having is stress and anxiety. This has gotten tons better, but I still have to do some self help things.

It is hard to get anything done when you go to bed early then spend half your day eating snacks and trying to destress lol.

I do tend to be more anxious leading up to ovulation. My cycles keep getting shorter. This cycle was only 25 days. I've started charting so maybe I will learn something.

I am also loving to hear that others are finding a connection between their cycles & symptoms! This is what I've been noticing lately & it's been freaking me out. I tend to feel worse leading up to ovulation, some months worse than others.

However, my cycles are getting better. Ever since I cut out gluten (& tomatoes....salicylate link??), I don't have cramps or PMS. Lately, my cycles have been moving towards the typical 28 days & have become very close to following the lunar cycle - which, from what I've read, is ideal. My cycles used to be all over the place & horribly crampy with crazy PMS. They'd be long, like 45 days, sometimes I'd go months w/o a cycle at all.

Going to touch on the BP & need for snacks thing below...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyHawk* 
not sure what to do from now on. I used to take licorice and tons of supplements until I felt better, and I do for the most part, but now I'm not sure what to do. I take salt in the morning, sometime 3x's during the day or more and I feel really dizzy/lightheaded during the end of my cycle (aka: that time of the month). But then I feel fine the rest of the month with only taking salt occasionally...is this a cycle thing? Maybe my adrenals are healed and now I'm back to square one? I'm obviously still low aldosterone, hence the need for more salt, but...when does this stop?

Maybe that's my real question...when does this all stop? when can I no longer need a butt load of salt intake every day and feel normal?







:

I've noticed the cycle connection too - for me, I feel worse leading up to ovulation, not sure what that means.

I've also been getting the lightheaded/dizziness feeling MUCH more often & it's been a real stress (mentally) for me.

In my head, I keep going back & forth between insulin resistance & adrenal/BP issues. I have noticed that after a carby meal (we tend to be pretty low carb), I feel really lightheaded & just *weird*, not myself, kind of spacey & my head & ears stuff up. In my head, I decide that this is because my body will produce too much insulin & my blood sugar actually *drops* after meals. This is called a postprandial reactive hypoglycemic response or "reactive hypoglycemia" (and is considered a pre-diabetic reaction.)

The more snacks you have, the more insulin is produced, so the answer is to basically fast throughout the day - having say, breakfast & then dinner, so the insulin production is reduced. And the higher carb the meal, the more insulin is produced.

I had a full blood test & my insulin & glucose were perfect (but I had fasted for 12 hours!) I wish I could test my own insulin levels after meals, like the way we can test blood sugar. My Dad has an extra glucometer & I intend to test my blood sugar throughout the day & after meals.

I realize that a lot of this could be related to my Dad's health crisis this fall that was a result of his diabetes which probably led to his cardiac disease. So it's a big, giant fear of mine, this diabetes stuff. But, I had noticed before his crisis that after eating Haagen-Dazs, I'd get heart palps & I'd feel weird.

OTOH, maybe this is adrenal/BO related. It's SO hard to tell. Perhaps I have anxiety if I eat something carby or sugary & my adrenals take an immediate hit? Perhaps the heart palps are anxiety? My meal the other night was a green curry - probably had some sugar & then there was the rice.

Either way, this is a stress on my poor adrenals.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Um... We've been going nuts in the allergies forum and it's all the same issues here, too...
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...2#post13172442

This is all VERY interesting, but I don't fully understand what exactly to do. Eliminate salicylates? Add B vitamins? My blood homocysteine was 5.6 umol/L a few weeks ago - the ref. range by Quest is <10.4 umol/L.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I just saw this. I read a book that claimed salicylates cause fibromyalgia also. I may have to try this and see if it helps me.

I wonder why/how though?

I know I've said a million times that my ND says that fibro/CFS are both caused by adrenal fatigue, so is it just that the salicylates are somehow affecting the adrenals? I've had this chronic muscle pain for 2 years now & I'm sick of it.

Thanks everyone!! I LOVE coming here & reading all of the interesting ideas you've come across. I feel like we're always finding more pieces to the puzzle!







:


----------



## nichole

Metasequoia,

I have felt the way you have described after eating something carby. I hope it helps you to know I don't get that feeling anymore.

I definately feel better when I eat 6x a day with protein at every snack. I just have trouble making time to do that.

The thing that has probably helped me most (with supplements being a close second) is relaxing more. I got this way by being stress out, and I'm not going to get better until I take things as they come. I need to stop thinking about all the things I want to do during my day or in the future, but just focus on the moment. I have to take lots of little breaks. If I know a break is coming, life does not seem overwhelming and I get much more done. It is a state of mind. Maybe this is good that this happened to me (um well that is a stretch) but I hope to model this new way for my children: being calm, flexible and enjoying each moment as much as possible.


----------



## applecore

I'm in and out of reading this thread. Sometimes it's so heavy that my brain can't handle it. I'm looking forward to the day when I feel clear enough to read through it as much as possible.

I'm wondering if anyone else experiences facial pain/sensitivity. I get it randomly, ranging from a general ache to a super painful tenderpoint around my temples. I haven't figured out if there are specific things that trigger this, but some types of coffee, and maybe processed foods? I rarely do processed foods, but I'm back on coffee again, and it only seems to cause a problem when I'm out and get one. If I drink my organic coffee brewed at home, I never have a problem.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

I'm glad this thread got bumped back up. I have to say though that sometimes the deeper this all goes, the more depressive it gets. I am at a point right now where I am so tired of taking what seems to be tons of supp's each day, plus herbs, plus having to avoid this or that food ... and each time another type of food/food chemical comes up, it just makes me want to plug my ears and bury my head in sand. We were dairy free for 6 weeks and didn't notice any difference (and we were completely dairy free - no cheating). We are now re-allowing dairy back in. On another board, a link was given about possible issues with oxalic acid. And then there are salicylates (which I've known about since we began Feingold 2 1/2+ years ago). And then animes. I'm just ready for it not to be so hard. I think trying to figure out why I'm stressed, not processing nutrients correctly, and having adrenal issues is actually adding to the problem, if that makes sense. And sorry for venting ... I'm a bit grumpy today (







) as I have not slept well the last few nights and am yet again feeling run down.


----------



## WuWei

Whome is working on a *Biochemistry for Dummies* presentation.







She is brilliant and crunching the research, and untangling the physiological processes, and coming up with some amazing (and comprehensible) information about detox pathways. http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/t...bstacle-course

This is totally related to the amines, salicylates, oxylates, hormone excesses, deficiencies, gut healing, etc.

Pat


----------



## Metasequoia

A friend of mine whose son has autism just loaned me the book Changing the Course of Autism. There's a chapter (pg 100) called 'Why can't they detoxify?' which talks ALL about the methylation cycle, with diagrams...I'm going to sit down & read it in a minute & hopefully understand it a bit better.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Metasequoia,

I have felt the way you have described after eating something carby. I hope it helps you to know I don't get that feeling anymore.

I definately feel better when I eat 6x a day with protein at every snack. I just have trouble making time to do that.

The thing that has probably helped me most (with supplements being a close second) is relaxing more. I got this way by being stress out, and I'm not going to get better until I take things as they come. I need to stop thinking about all the things I want to do during my day or in the future, but just focus on the moment. I have to take lots of little breaks. If I know a break is coming, life does not seem overwhelming and I get much more done. It is a state of mind. Maybe this is good that this happened to me (um well that is a stretch) but I hope to model this new way for my children: being calm, flexible and enjoying each moment as much as possible.

Thanks Nichole, that does make me feel better. Maybe it's just a result of the stress from this past fall with my Dad's medical stuff. Perhaps my adrenals just took a huge hit (well, I know that), but it may have caused my blood pressure to be even lower, which could explain the lightheadedness.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I am at a point right now where I am so tired of taking what seems to be tons of supp's each day, plus herbs, plus having to avoid this or that food ... and each time another type of food/food chemical comes up, it just makes me want to plug my ears and bury my head in sand. We were dairy free for 6 weeks and didn't notice any difference (and we were completely dairy free - no cheating). We are now re-allowing dairy back in. On another board, a link was given about possible issues with oxalic acid. And then there are salicylates (which I've known about since we began Feingold 2 1/2+ years ago). And then animes. I'm just ready for it not to be so hard.

Here's why it's hard:

Your normal way of clearing out junk in your body (detox pathways) are broken. Therefore, things are floating around your body in places they shouldn't be. And so you react to them. With things like adrenal fatigue, or food sensitivities, or depression, or autism, or... any and everything.

One way of figuring out what's bothering your adrenals is to identify which chemical is bugging them, then avoid it. Or find a supplement that counteracts that chemical's effects and take that.

This new way I'm discovering is about figuring out why the chemical wasn't just detoxed in the first place. This is where you have a couple of options. First, you can try to understand the biochemistry and run tests and determine where the blocks are. Second, you can take a huge leap of faith and let someone else do that for you and just trust what they have to say.

It's soooooo complicated that the learning curve is REALLY steep. A cliff, really. I'm working on simplifying it so anyone can understand, but it's not there yet. But it truly explains EVERYTHING. Amazing stuff.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Here's why it's hard:

Your normal way of clearing out junk in your body (detox pathways) are broken. Therefore, things are floating around your body in places they shouldn't be. And so you react to them. With things like adrenal fatigue, or food sensitivities, or depression, or autism, or... any and everything.

One way of figuring out what's bothering your adrenals is to identify which chemical is bugging them, then avoid it. Or find a supplement that counteracts that chemical's effects and take that.

This new way I'm discovering is about figuring out why the chemical wasn't just detoxed in the first place. This is where you have a couple of options. First, you can try to understand the biochemistry and run tests and determine where the blocks are. Second, you can take a huge leap of faith and let someone else do that for you and just trust what they have to say.

It's soooooo complicated that the learning curve is REALLY steep. A cliff, really. I'm working on simplifying it so anyone can understand, but it's not there yet. But it truly explains EVERYTHING. Amazing stuff.

And I do appreciate you sharing all that you are learning. It is amazing stuff.


----------



## lucky_mia

I hate this. I read here but I don't even belong here. It's too late for me. I already have full blown Adrenal Insufficiency/Addison's Diease. There is no help for me except to take steroids for the rest of my life.







I feel for the rest of you who are suffering. This adrenal stuff is life changing.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
I hate this. I read here but I don't even belong here. It's too late for me. I already have full blown Adrenal Insufficiency/Addison's Diease. There is no help for me except to take steroids for the rest of my life.







I feel for the rest of you who are suffering. This adrenal stuff is life changing.










I have no words of comfort except that I think there's a reason you're here. It may not be for you or me, or even anyone who's presently on this thread, but there is a reason. I'm sad that you have reason to be here, but I'm glad to know that you are.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
I hate this. I read here but I don't even belong here. It's too late for me. I already have full blown Adrenal Insufficiency/Addison's Diease. There is no help for me except to take steroids for the rest of my life.







I feel for the rest of you who are suffering. This adrenal stuff is life changing.

I *TOTALLY* believe that you can support and strengthen your immune system, your adrenal system, your health.







:

Start here: http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/t...nt-dense-foods

Pat


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
I hate this. I read here but I don't even belong here. It's too late for me. I already have full blown Adrenal Insufficiency/Addison's Diease. There is no help for me except to take steroids for the rest of my life.







I feel for the rest of you who are suffering. This adrenal stuff is life changing.

Would you mind sharing your story?

Hugs mama.


----------



## lucky_mia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Would you mind sharing your story?

Hugs mama.









Thanks for asking and thanks Pat and Jacqueline for kind words.

When I was 22, I stopped getting my period and my FSH level confirmed that I was in early menopause. About 5 years after that I developed hypothyroidism. My endo said it was possible that I would next develop adrenal insufficiency since I already had two autoimmune endocrine conditions. I was given a blood test yearly and about 6 months ago, it was confirmed by an ACTH stim test that I was indeed developing Addison's. I was given a prescription for Prednisone and told to get a medical alter bracelet and an emergency injection kit.

On the bright side, I do feel so much better. I didn't even realize how bad I was feeling until I started to feel better. Before I was diagnosed I thought I was just incredible tired from having twin toddlers. Here are some of the symptoms I had:

Could not wake up and get out of bed in the morning - I would lie and tell my DH I was getting up but I knew I couldn't. It was just so hard to open my eyes.

As tired, if not more tired after sleeping - I used to think if would take at least a week of sleeping to feel refreshed. I never felt rested and refreshed.

Achy, sore joints, difficulty getting up and down from the floor to play with the kids, difficulty walking down the stair in the morning, it was like my feet wouldn't wake up - I even started physical therapy.

Difficulty with focusing, memory, and overall mental fogginess - I considered doing neurofeedback and started wondering if I had adult ADD but I couldn't get myself together to go to the first appointment.

Unmotivated and overwhelmed by simple tasks like picking a sock off the floor. I was getting so down myself and I couldn't figure out what was going.

I know there are parts of this that I can't do anything about but I need to keep focusing on the positive things I *can* do to make myself healthier.


----------



## lucky_mia

I think my story was a thread killer.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Mia








Sometimes this thread just dies for a while. I think there are a fair few of us who're a little overwhelmed by things happening in other threads atm- or just overwhelmed with life in general.
Thank you for sharing your story. Would you mind sharing what other autoimmune disorder with which you've been dx'd? I have Hashimoto's, so I always feel a little... worried when I hear stories about multiple autoimmune problems, particularly since I recently discovered that diabetes also runs in my family.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
I think my story was a thread killer.









nah...we're just all _reallllly tired.
_


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
I think my story was a thread killer.









Sorry Mia, I just saw your response. Thanks for taking the time to share your story.

It sounds like you've been through a lot.









Holy frijoles though - your symptoms sound an awful lot like my level of adrenal insufficiency. I wonder what your cortisol levels would look like.

So the ACTH stim test was showing that your adrenals were "fatigued"? This is where I get confused, how did the doctor determine that your adrenals couldn't heal with support (other than steroids)? Someone here probably understands this more than I do...

bigeyes, lol, I was going to say something similar.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
nah...we're just all _reallllly tired.
_


















Good one! And yes, we are all tired.

MyLittleWonders--I've been at that point, tired of the work, tired of needing to learn more and know more, just tired. Stepping back and counting up the good choices I've made helps (a bit). When you've figured out something that works for a child, or you lucked into a good decision, or something you noticed and it seems to be leading from A to B to ? It all counts as real progress, even though we're not at the final endpoint of abundant good health. And it's okay to slow down--lately, my compromise (that I actually feel good about, instead of guilty) is that our meals are simple and they avoid our problematic foods, but they're not nutritional or culinary wonders. But it's made my life easier and I can focus my mental energy elsewhere (though I'm still overwhelmed by the detoxification discussion, and I have good clues already about our detoxification problems!). Anyway,







we've all had this point.


----------



## tanyalynn

Mia, a big part of my journey has been seeing that information almost seems to come to me when I need it, and being here is part of that for you, and for me. Some of it is concrete knowledge, and some of it has been really seeing the beauty and interconnectedness of our health. I'll admit it took a while for me to come round to that, but I'm not well yet. I still have frustration with my limitations, I don't like being fatigued, but it's been satisfying to learn more and understand why my body wasn't working well, and what I can do to help.

Anyway, I'm now officially rambly, but welcome.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Mia, a big part of my journey has been seeing that information almost seems to come to me when I need it, and being here is part of that for you, and for me. Some of it is concrete knowledge, and some of it has been really seeing the beauty and interconnectedness of our health. I'll admit it took a while for me to come round to that, but I'm not well yet. I still have frustration with my limitations, I don't like being fatigued, but it's been satisfying to learn more and understand why my body wasn't working well, and what I can do to help.

Anyway, I'm now officially rambly, but welcome.

So true, Tanya.
And you've been officially rambly for a while. Someone should set that as your senior title.







But you're still not as bad as me.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Mia, a big part of my journey has been seeing that information almost seems to come to me when I need it, and being here is part of that for you, and for me. Some of it is concrete knowledge, and some of it has been really seeing the beauty and interconnectedness of our health. I'll admit it took a while for me to come round to that, but I'm not well yet. I still have frustration with my limitations, I don't like being fatigued, but it's been satisfying to learn more and understand why my body wasn't working well, and what I can do to help.

Anyway, I'm now officially rambly, but welcome.

I can relate so much. I'm working on a Ph.D. in holistic health right now and wham! did I get some reasons to practice what I preach. I started a blog re: this (though I'm only going to work on it when I'm inspired and not make it another TO-DO if ykwim?)

This afternoon I am really, really tired. Yesterday? Energy like gang busters. All day long.

I'm getting tired of this up and down up and down up and down.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
I think my story was a thread killer.









Mia,







and more







to you. Thank you for sharing your story. This thread does have its ups and downs (and I bet it we all charted our "good" days and our "not-so-good" days, our posting on this thread would probably reflect them. Thank you for joining our journey as we all learn and heal together.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
nah...we're just all _reallllly tired.
_









So true! I can do fluff when I'm really tired, but this thread is harder when I'm really tired.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
















Good one! And yes, we are all tired.

MyLittleWonders--I've been at that point, tired of the work, tired of needing to learn more and know more, just tired. Stepping back and counting up the good choices I've made helps (a bit). When you've figured out something that works for a child, or you lucked into a good decision, or something you noticed and it seems to be leading from A to B to ? It all counts as real progress, even though we're not at the final endpoint of abundant good health. And it's okay to slow down--lately, my compromise (that I actually feel good about, instead of guilty) is that our meals are simple and they avoid our problematic foods, but they're not nutritional or culinary wonders. But it's made my life easier and I can focus my mental energy elsewhere (though I'm still overwhelmed by the detoxification discussion, and I have good clues already about our detoxification problems!). Anyway,







we've all had this point.

Thank you Tanya. I need to work on giving myself permission to slow down.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I can relate so much. I'm working on a Ph.D. in holistic health right now and wham! did I get some reasons to practice what I preach. I started a blog re: this (though I'm only going to work on it when I'm inspired and not make it another TO-DO if ykwim?)

This afternoon I am really, really tired. Yesterday? Energy like gang busters. All day long.

I'm getting tired of this up and down up and down up and down.









I am so with you (sometimes I think we were separated at birth!







). I too am extremely tired today. Last night I slept so hard that I have had a very hard time waking completely. I have a sleep-deprived headache even though I slept just shy of 8 hours. The boys are all tired too, which isn't making things very easy around here.

I am very tired of the ups and downs. It makes me feel our lives are very inconsistent because I feel so much of the mood of the house (at least during the day when it's the boys and me) is dependent on whether I'm up and going or really run down. There doesn't seem to be much in the middle.


----------



## chlobo

Speaking of tired.....

What is the concensus about adrenal fatigue and exercise? I signed up to do the biking leg of a triathalon but I'm now wondering how good an idea that is?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Speaking of tired.....

What is the concensus about adrenal fatigue and exercise? I signed up to do the biking leg of a triathalon but I'm now wondering how good an idea that is?

I dunno. My ND always discourages me from "overexerting" myself. Even yoga! I told him I had signed up for it & he said to be careful & pay attention to my body.

I've found that a few short sprints here & there actually make me feel better. I often wonder if running around the block during an adrenaline rush (stressful time) would be helpful.

I plan on joining the Y this month....we'll see how that goes.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Speaking of tired.....

What is the concensus about adrenal fatigue and exercise? I signed up to do the biking leg of a triathalon but I'm now wondering how good an idea that is?

My thinking is that you really need to listen to your body, especially as you near the race. I know for me, I couldn't, at least at this point in my recovery, sign up for something like that in the future. There are days that I know I could do it (with relatively little fall-out the following days) and then days when I would be in bed for the next few days because it drained me so much. For now, we do bike ride, but we tend to go about 8 miles per hour (about as fast as my middle son can peddle







), and just one short trips (a few miles in a day at most). Other than that, I stick to walking if we exercise. Some days just running around the house with the kids is enough. ("Running" used there is a relative term ... it's more like walking around, picking up toys, putting away laundry, going from one room to another helping them.







) So, if you seem to be having consistent days, and think that on any given day you'll be up to biking, then go for it. (How many miles is the biking leg of a triathlon?) But if you have some up days and some down days but it isn't consistent enough to plan things too far in the future, then you may want to pull out. Listen to your body first and foremost. At least that is my non-professional opinion.


----------



## lucky_mia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
nah...we're just all _reallllly tired.
_











Thanks for the laugh, I needed that. After I posted, I fell asleep on the couch.


----------



## lucky_mia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 

So the ACTH stim test was showing that your adrenals were "fatigued"? This is where I get confused, how did the doctor determine that your adrenals couldn't heal with support (other than steroids)? Someone here probably understands this more than I do....

Because I was at risk for developing this, my doctor ran and blood test yearly looking for antibodies. When that came back positive, then she did the ACTH stim test. I was then diagnosed with Adrenal Insufficiency aka Addison's Disease, not Adrenal Fatigue. I went with steroids because AD can be fatal without steroid support.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
Because I was at risk for developing this, my doctor ran and blood test yearly looking for antibodies. When that came back positive, then she did the ACTH stim test. I was then diagnosed with Adrenal Insufficiency aka Addison's Disease, not Adrenal Fatigue. I went with steroids because AD can be fatal without steroid support.

Oh, antibodies, okay. I didn't know that Addison's was autoimmune & would produce antibodies.


----------



## lucky_mia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Mia









Thank you for sharing your story. Would you mind sharing what other autoimmune disorder with which you've been dx'd? I have Hashimoto's, so I always feel a little... worried when I hear stories about multiple autoimmune problems, particularly since I recently discovered that diabetes also runs in my family.

My first autoimmune condition was the early menopause or premature ovarian failure. Women with POF are 300 times more likey to develop Adrenal Insufficiency. Next was the hypothyroidism which my doctor has never called Hashimotos but I'm guessing it is since it automimmune. I went to a AD support group last week and a endo spoke there. He was really great and he explained how particular autoimmune diseases are not necessarily hereditary but more the predisposition for autoimmune diseases is so auto immune conditions do tend to run in families.


----------



## Annikate

RE: exercise

I have always been very strong and active. From most of my reading yoga and tai chi, chi gong, etc. are good choices for adrenal fatigue b/c of the stress relieving factor.

I do enjoy yoga, but find that I need weight training mostly these days to maintain some sense of strength. I've gotten very weak over the past 8 months. This is partially due to very low testosterone levels too.

A good combination is strength, cardio and flexibility exercises. And even if you are too tired to do it, make yourself exercise for at least a few minutes. And I think a general rule of thumb is "if you enjoy it do it, if you don't, find something else." Exercise, for us, should not be *work*.


----------



## tanyalynn

I'm hoping to bounce some ideas off folks here, on behalf of my husband. We did a saliva test in August of last year that showed his adrenals in stage 5, sorta, it looked like they were sliding into 6 (they didn't clearly fit any of the categories, the graph of the results actually had his results plotted right on the line between 5 and 7), so he's pretty affected, I think worse than me.

I know that life stress affects him even more than it does me, and so that may be part of everything, but I can't tell if his tiredness, I'd call it depression almost, is more than just his adrenals. And I don't quite know where to go. Other things I've thought of that could be involved: I bet his vitamin D is quite low (his cholesterol is as low as mine, we're both at about 140 and I know cholesterol is related to the chemical the sun turns into vitamin D in our skin) and his skin color is darker than mine anyway (medium brown, a typical color for folks of Mexican descent) so even though we're in Texas, I bet we're both deficient. And his bloodwork (where we first saw his cholesterol) showed his TSH at 2.6 (his free-T3 was good, in the upper third of the normal range), and I've mostly assumed that was compensatory stress due to his adrenals, but we don't consume as much iodine as I think we should. His ferritin and iron were fine.

So, any ideas on how to decide how much of his tiredness is situational (he's not happy at work) and adrenal-related (both of which we're working on) and what may be due to other things? I could just add more pills to his daily routine, but he's taking a lot and isn't thrilled by it. But he'd take them, if I wanted to add some D and some Iodoral.

Thoughts? Anything I'm overlooking?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
My first autoimmune condition was the early menopause or premature ovarian failure. Women with POF are 300 times more likey to develop Adrenal Insufficiency.

I wonder if this is because the adrenals have to pick up the slack of the ovaries at such a young age & they just become exhausted. It seems that women heading into peri-menopause & menopause often end up with some level of adrenal insufficiency. I know that this adrenal stuff hit me hard after I had Ds almost 3 yrs ago & because of lactation & being PP, my hormones were in a menopausal state (as shown by both blood & saliva testing.)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I'm hoping to bounce some ideas off folks here, on behalf of my husband. We did a saliva test in August of last year that showed his adrenals in stage 5, sorta, it looked like they were sliding into 6 (they didn't clearly fit any of the categories, the graph of the results actually had his results plotted right on the line between 5 and 7), so he's pretty affected, I think worse than me.

I know that life stress affects him even more than it does me, and so that may be part of everything, but I can't tell if his tiredness, I'd call it depression almost, is more than just his adrenals. And I don't quite know where to go. Other things I've thought of that could be involved: I bet his vitamin D is quite low (his cholesterol is as low as mine, we're both at about 140 and I know cholesterol is related to the chemical the sun turns into vitamin D in our skin) and his skin color is darker than mine anyway (medium brown, a typical color for folks of Mexican descent) so even though we're in Texas, I bet we're both deficient. And his bloodwork (where we first saw his cholesterol) showed his TSH at 2.6 (his free-T3 was good, in the upper third of the normal range), and I've mostly assumed that was compensatory stress due to his adrenals, but we don't consume as much iodine as I think we should. His ferritin and iron were fine.

So, any ideas on how to decide how much of his tiredness is situational (he's not happy at work) and adrenal-related (both of which we're working on) and what may be due to other things? I could just add more pills to his daily routine, but he's taking a lot and isn't thrilled by it. But he'd take them, if I wanted to add some D and some Iodoral.

Thoughts? Anything I'm overlooking?

I wonder this too. I was still in zone 7 last year, though I had moved slightly to the right of that box, towards zone 6. I think that #1, the lack of cortisol makes us truly fatigued. But I think the affects on our emotional well-being also come into play, both physically & psychologically. We're low on feel-good hormones, steroidal hormones, and most of us low in D, which doesn't help.

I've added a tremendous amount of D to my diet (supplement) & have been adding a piece of kombu to my soups. I haven't looked into the iodine link yet, but I want to make sure we're all getting enough, including the kids.


----------



## Annikate

I need to pull out my test results again. What "zones" are you guys talking about? On which tests are these shown?


----------



## lucky_mia

Metasequoia said:


> I wonder if this is because the adrenals have to pick up the slack of the ovaries at such a young age & they just become exhausted. It seems that women heading into peri-menopause & menopause often end up with some level of adrenal insufficiency. I know that this adrenal stuff hit me hard after I had Ds almost 3 yrs ago & because of lactation & being PP, my hormones were in a menopausal state (as shown by both blood & saliva testing.)
> 
> I don't know. Obviously, my body does not like my endocrine system as a whole and seems to like to attack it. The big question is why and what set this into motion. The best I ever felt was pregnant with my twins and breastfeeding. It was as if finally the right mix of hormones was happening for my body. As soon as they weaned, my hormones went crazy and I seemed to "crash" and it was then that the adrenal issues started. I was definitely on adrenaline high after giving birth. Did I just burn them out with a multiple pregnancy, bfing two and all the lack of sleep? Even though I felt good at the time maybe it was taking a toll on my body and I didn't know it


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I'm hoping to bounce some ideas off folks here, on behalf of my husband. We did a saliva test in August of last year that showed his adrenals in stage 5, sorta, it looked like they were sliding into 6 (they didn't clearly fit any of the categories, the graph of the results actually had his results plotted right on the line between 5 and 7), so he's pretty affected, I think worse than me.

I know that life stress affects him even more than it does me, and so that may be part of everything, but I can't tell if his tiredness, I'd call it depression almost, is more than just his adrenals. And I don't quite know where to go. Other things I've thought of that could be involved: I bet his vitamin D is quite low (his cholesterol is as low as mine, we're both at about 140 and I know cholesterol is related to the chemical the sun turns into vitamin D in our skin) and his skin color is darker than mine anyway (medium brown, a typical color for folks of Mexican descent) so even though we're in Texas, I bet we're both deficient. And his bloodwork (where we first saw his cholesterol) showed his TSH at 2.6 (his free-T3 was good, in the upper third of the normal range), and I've mostly assumed that was compensatory stress due to his adrenals, but we don't consume as much iodine as I think we should. His ferritin and iron were fine.

So, any ideas on how to decide how much of his tiredness is situational (he's not happy at work) and adrenal-related (both of which we're working on) and what may be due to other things? I could just add more pills to his daily routine, but he's taking a lot and isn't thrilled by it. But he'd take them, if I wanted to add some D and some Iodoral.

Thoughts? Anything I'm overlooking?

If you want the methylation angle...
depression indicates low serotonin.
life stress being a big deal indicates high norepinephrine (how is he with mood swings?)

Both of those point towards stimulating the methyl cycle, but with folate rather than dopamine. And it could be helpful to cut back on dietary methionine (less protein in general). If you start a new thread and pm me, I'll step you through more of the details.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
If you want the methylation angle...
depression indicates low serotonin.
life stress being a big deal indicates high norepinephrine (how is he with mood swings?)

Both of those point towards stimulating the methyl cycle, but with folate rather than dopamine. And it could be helpful to cut back on dietary methionine (less protein in general). If you start a new thread and pm me, I'll step you through more of the details.









I want to hear it too, sister!









Pat


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
If you want the methylation angle...
depression indicates low serotonin.
life stress being a big deal indicates high norepinephrine (how is he with mood swings?)

Both of those point towards stimulating the methyl cycle, but with folate rather than dopamine. And it could be helpful to cut back on dietary methionine (less protein in general). If you start a new thread and pm me, I'll step you through more of the details.









Actually, I'd love more details too as what you write sounds a lot like dh and I. What confuses me is the idea of less dietary protein. We both get hypoglycemic and according to our ASI results, we both could lead down the road to insulin resistence and diabetes, so I know protein is important for us throughout the day. We have been taking supplemental B12 with added folate (I need to get more today) but wondering if we aren't taking enough.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Actually, I'd love more details too as what you write sounds a lot like dh and I. What confuses me is the idea of less dietary protein. We both get hypoglycemic and according to our ASI results, we both could lead down the road to insulin resistence and diabetes, so I know protein is important for us throughout the day. We have been taking supplemental B12 with added folate (I need to get more today) but wondering if we aren't taking enough.

I'm still trying to figure out how the hypoglycemic stuff fits in. What I'm leaning towards is that it's carbs that are bad, not protein that's good. With all the fat fear, that translates into eating more protein. So my current theory (and plan for myself) is to get the minimum protein, then as much (good quality animal) fat as I can, then veggies, and finally, fill in the gaps with carbs.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I need to pull out my test results again. What "zones" are you guys talking about? On which tests are these shown?

Let me see if I can find a website that discusses it (but 1 is healthy, 7 is very, very bad off, a lot of us are in 5, it seems to be the point at which a lot of us realize something wrong and we need help)...

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Let me see if I can find a website that discusses it (but 1 is healthy, 7 is very, very bad off, a lot of us are in 5, it seems to be the point at which a lot of us realize something wrong and we need help)...

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%20Normal.html

Thanks Tanya. I'm looking at my results for Salivary Cortisol and DHEA from Genova and the ranges here go from .00 to 1.40.

My levels *start* at .30, drop to .29 around noon, to .15 btw. 3-5 and to .08 btw. 10 and 12.

Not sure how that relates to the chart in the link or at what stage I'm in. I just know that I need some dammed cortisol already!









The doc said, 'how do you get out of bed in the morning?" And I was like, "well, I don't enjoy it!" And seriously wondered, well, doesn't EVERYone feel this way? I've been disliking getting up in the morning for so long it's become normal.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
If you want the methylation angle...
depression indicates low serotonin.
life stress being a big deal indicates high norepinephrine (how is he with mood swings?)

Both of those point towards stimulating the methyl cycle, but with folate rather than dopamine. And it could be helpful to cut back on dietary methionine (less protein in general). If you start a new thread and pm me, I'll step you through more of the details.










Done! New thread started, any and all ideas would be great!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...8#post13221038

WhoMe--I need to think about detoxification for him--in general I think he is WAY better than I am in detoxifying, but maybe there are a couple of weak areas that wouldn't normally be an issue because he's so good at other parts (I think he's fast with phase 1 and I _think_ glucuronidation, and he's not toxically sick the way someone with fast phase 1 and slow phase 2 can get, but there may be subtleties I need to address), but maybe now that he's so rundown, it's more of an issue.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
I don't know. Obviously, my body does not like my endocrine system as a whole and seems to like to attack it. The big question is why and what set this into motion. The best I ever felt was pregnant with my twins and breastfeeding. It was as if finally the right mix of hormones was happening for my body. As soon as they weaned, my hormones went crazy and I seemed to "crash" and it was then that the adrenal issues started. I was definitely on adrenaline high after giving birth. Did I just burn them out with a multiple pregnancy, bfing two and all the lack of sleep? Even though I felt good at the time maybe it was taking a toll on my body and I didn't know it

That may make sense, that you felt better during pregnancy. I was reading something recently about allergies and Th1 and Th2 parts of the immune system, and apparently when we're pregnant, our immune system balance changes to lessen the likelihood of rejecting the baby.

I think normally adrenal fatigue takes years and years to build up, and maybe it did for you too, or maybe the physical stress of growing two babies was just so much that your body couldn't compensate anymore. I know the stress of my 2nd pregnancy (emotional stress, but mainly the nutritional drain) is what pushed me over the edge, I became hypothyroid and my adrenals went from likely marginal (I had no idea they were a problem, but looking back, I can see it) to bad.

For me I've figured out the underlying reason my adrenals were weak and my nutrition really messed up, turns out people in my family don't detoxify heavy metals (like the mercury in my amalgam fillings) well, and whoops, it caught up to me. I know there are other causes, and my husband isn't at all prone to this like I am, but figuring out the underlying stresses on me has helped me understand what's going on (not knowing is so difficult!) and for us it's helping us heal.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I'm still trying to figure out how the hypoglycemic stuff fits in. What I'm leaning towards is that it's carbs that are bad, not protein that's good. With all the fat fear, that translates into eating more protein. So my current theory (and plan for myself) is to get the minimum protein, then as much (good quality animal) fat as I can, then veggies, and finally, fill in the gaps with carbs.

My caution would be, if you are getting insufficient protein, the body will use muscle to create protein and heavy metals are stored in the muscle. And if you are getting insufficient calories, the body will burn fat. Pesticides and herbicides are stored in the fat. All the toxins are released in that process and dumped to nursing children.

I'm thinking, focus on getting adequate proteins from vegetables (especially dark, leafy); and minimal protein from animals, choosing liver, eggs and cultured dairy, bone broths; and beans and legumes as the carbs. And bump up calories with the fats and calories (especially butter, coconut oil, Brazil nuts, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, walnuts, almonds). Avoiding grains, starches (rice, pasta, potatoes).

Pat


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Done! New thread started, any and all ideas would be great!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...8#post13221038

WhoMe--I need to think about detoxification for him--in general I think he is WAY better than I am in detoxifying, but maybe there are a couple of weak areas that wouldn't normally be an issue because he's so good at other parts (I think he's fast with phase 1 and I _think_ glucuronidation, and he's not toxically sick the way someone with fast phase 1 and slow phase 2 can get, but there may be subtleties I need to address), but maybe now that he's so rundown, it's more of an issue.

I'll check it out during naptime...

My leading theory for myself right now is that I detoxify just fine, but I'm a little low on methyl groups. As a result, I think I've been relying a little heavily on other detox pathways. Some of those stimulate the adrenals, and there's another enzyme that can be mutated in such a way that it stimulates the adrenals as well. Oh, and if you're low on methyls, you won't break down norepinephrine well, and so stress will affect you longer. Add all that up, and that's my current theory of my adrenal fatigue.

I think dh detoxes well too, but when you combine his and mine, dd got the worst of both of us. She doesn't detox well, and as a result, she reacts to foods. As a result of me messing with our diets, I've changed my detox profile and worked us both into a ditch. And so now I react to foods that I didn't before.


----------



## mellowjello

I am only on page 9...







: but just wanted to jump in and say thank you to everyone for contributing to this thread.

I just had my ND visit today for suspected AF and she agreed. I had seen her previously for DD's issues but not to address me specifically. I was encouraged when the first thing she suggested was the ASI test. We actually are going with a different test, by NeuroScience, though. The NS test is more expensive but is generally more palatable for insurance companies (more will accept it but not the ASI) and we are fortunate with great insurance so we'll see.

The NS test gives more info re: neurotransmitters, but not hormones. She said she didn't feel comfortable messing with hormones while I'm still nursing DD (thinking that although any hormone therapy would just compensate for my lack, my body is already compensating to give her what she needs, and she didn't want to second guess this natural mechanism). Since hormones don't regulate until 6 months after nursing ends, no point in getting the hormone info now, we'll just do it then.

I am excited about getting results back! I am excited that maybe my (now severe) hypoglycemia is just AF-induced and that I might be able to eat chocolate again someday! Oh yeah, and feel like having sex again (poor DH)!







:


----------



## BeingMe

I have a question on Neurosciences test... The 2 times I tested before I used ZRT and they showed my levels improving. However, I used neuroscience last time because my new doc rec'd them and they show my levels are horrible, and of course they told me to buy their products. What do you think? Any chance the results are skewed to make people buy their products?


----------



## Annikate

How many of you on this thread also have been dx w/hypothyroidism?

I know these often go hand and hand, I guess I'm just wondering if theoretically - - if I get my thyroid functioning again, if my adrenals will then follow suit naturally.

I actually asked my ND this question and he was like, well, theoretically, yes.

Just my musings of the day.


----------



## tanyalynn

After more than a year of symptoms that really made my life hard, I got a prescription for Synthroid, so that's sorta a diagnosis, yes? Many of us have seen that our adrenals started going downhill first, though I had to really look to see that my adrenals started getting stressed in my early teens. It wasn't til my AF was bad that I noticed it separate from my thyroid. Some people have trouble doing lots of thyroid support (either with vit/mins or with Synthroid-like stuff) without doing adrenal support first. I'd say support your thyroid and adrenal both, but expect your adrenals to take longer. The thyroid is quite nutrition-related, at least for me, so that was easier.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
After more than a year of symptoms that really made my life hard, I got a prescription for Synthroid, so that's sorta a diagnosis, yes? Many of us have seen that our adrenals started going downhill first, though I had to really look to see that my adrenals started getting stressed in my early teens. It wasn't til my AF was bad that I noticed it separate from my thyroid. Some people have trouble doing lots of thyroid support (either with vit/mins or with Synthroid-like stuff) without doing adrenal support first. I'd say support your thyroid and adrenal both, but expect your adrenals to take longer. The thyroid is quite nutrition-related, at least for me, so that was easier.

Unless your thyroid antibodies are in the thousands, like mine.








In hindsight, I had really obvious adrenal problems since I was just little... 8 maybe? I couldn't gain weight ever, had a really hard time eating much of anything (small appetite)...
Toddler's freaking.


----------



## tanyalynn

Have you been able to get them down with selenium? Or maybe you haven't re-tested? In the grand scheme of things, I guess maybe it's not highest on your priority list.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

I only had them tested in July. My ex-PCP said there was no reason and refused to test them. I finally convinced DH that I needed to get my ND involved since the group with which my ex-PCP practices wouldn't allow me to switch doctors (only group in town) and he sent out for a full thyroid work up (excepting ferritin). Then, he put me on selenium when we got the results back... which lasted until September when I started puking constantly. No point in taking supps I'm not actually going to "use" right?








So, I'm going back on them again here soon and plan to retest sometime in the future, just not certain when exactly.


----------



## lucky_mia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
How many of you on this thread also have been dx w/hypothyroidism?

I know these often go hand and hand, I guess I'm just wondering if theoretically - - if I get my thyroid functioning again, if my adrenals will then follow suit naturally.

I actually asked my ND this question and he was like, well, theoretically, yes.

Just my musings of the day.









I'm also hypothyroid.


----------



## camprunner

I'm hypothyroid. I was told that I needed to get my adrenals under control before they would even think about prescribing Thyroid medicine because people who have Adrenal fatigue tend not to respond well to the Thyroid meds. Even now, I notice that I'm a mess if I don't take the supplement for Adrenal Fatigue even when I've already had the Thyroid med.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
How many of you on this thread also have been dx w/hypothyroidism?

I know these often go hand and hand, I guess I'm just wondering if theoretically - - if I get my thyroid functioning again, if my adrenals will then follow suit naturally.

I actually asked my ND this question and he was like, well, theoretically, yes.

Just my musings of the day.









I have always suspected hypothyrodism, but the few times I have had my thyroid tested through an MD, it has of course come up as fine.







I have the classic symptoms of hypothyroidism. My doctor of Oriental medicine thinks I have the classic symptoms of hypothyroidism. But I have not yet had my ND test my thyroid. I might in a few months when we get another ASI test done to see if we've made *any progress* with our adrenals (she wanted to test after 3-6 months; I told dh no sooner than 6 months).


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *camprunner* 
I'm hypothyroid. I was told that I needed to get my adrenals under control before they would even think about prescribing Thyroid medicine because people who have Adrenal fatigue tend not to respond well to the Thyroid meds. Even now, I notice that I'm a mess if I don't take the supplement for Adrenal Fatigue even when I've already had the Thyroid med.

Are you serious?
I'd have DIED (literally) if my doctor had said that.


----------



## neveryoumindthere

oops nevermind misread that.







:
I was just shocked a doctor recognized adrenal fatigue in the first place


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
How many of you on this thread also have been dx w/hypothyroidism?

I know these often go hand and hand, I guess I'm just wondering if theoretically - - if I get my thyroid functioning again, if my adrenals will then follow suit naturally.

I actually asked my ND this question and he was like, well, theoretically, yes.

Just my musings of the day.









I'm one. But it's my understanding you should take care of adrenals first because your thyroid treatment will work better.


----------



## chlobo

Has anyone taken Standard Process Drenatrophin for Adrenal Fatigue?

I had been taking Vital Nutrients Adrenal Support but then a nutritionist thought I should be taking standard process instead. Perhaps I'm not taking enough but I feel worse taking hte Standard Process.

I'm wondering what other people's experience is?


----------



## kdegroo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
How many of you on this thread also have been dx w/hypothyroidism?

I know these often go hand and hand, I guess I'm just wondering if theoretically - - if I get my thyroid functioning again, if my adrenals will then follow suit naturally.

I actually asked my ND this question and he was like, well, theoretically, yes.

Just my musings of the day.









I have hypothyroidism. I have Hashimotos, so it is an autoimmune issue, too. I feel like my thyroid is OK with Armour, but I'm having a hard time getting the antibodies down and therefore getting pregnant with #2. It is getting frustrating.


----------



## tanyalynn

Have you used any selenium for reducing the antibodies? Let me find that study...

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ract/87/4/1687

They used 200mcg of selenite, but I'd really say l-selenomethionine is a better form of selenium. Read about selenium supplementation, there's a reasonable amount of concensus on that.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *camprunner* 
I'm hypothyroid. I was told that I needed to get my adrenals under control before they would even think about prescribing Thyroid medicine because people who have Adrenal fatigue tend not to respond well to the Thyroid meds. Even now, I notice that I'm a mess if I don't take the supplement for Adrenal Fatigue even when I've already had the Thyroid med.

Wow. My ND told me it begins w/the thyroid, then goes to adrenals, and then if you don't get those 2 under control, can lead to heart disease. I do know that my thyroid supp is helping me. It's intermittent though, one day up, one day down. I use Nature Thyroid but am going to switch to Armour at the rec. of my homeopath - apparently that's better regulated so hopefully no more roller coaster.

Dh took synthroid for a few years and it virtually ruined his thyroid, he's on nature thyroid now and is doing much much better.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Have you used any selenium for reducing the antibodies? Let me find that study...

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...ract/87/4/1687

They used 200mcg of selenite, but I'd really say l-selenomethionine is a better form of selenium. Read about selenium supplementation, there's a reasonable amount of concensus on that.

Interesting! I always do feel better when I take my selenium supp regularly. I know it has something to do w/detoxing too - esp. when you combine it w/C and E.


----------



## tanyalynn

Yeah, it's also needed to make glutathione, which whoops, I was really low in. And it may make you feel better because selenium is also key to allowing our bodies to convert T4 into T3.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Yeah, it's also needed to make glutathione, which whoops, I was really low in. And it may make you feel better because selenium is also key to allowing our bodies to convert T4 into T3.

Huh. I knew about the glutathione, but did not know about the T4/T3. Sometimes I get so mad at myself for stopping doing the things that I KNOW make me feel better kwim? For years I was good about nutrition, supplementation and then slowly and little by little I stopped one thing, then another, then another . . . It's like a snowball effect. Ah well, at least I'm back on the wagon now.









I am also having my dd's DAN doc look over all my testing in a few weeks to give me a second opinion of sorts. I can't wait b/c I know he'll have lots to teach me as always.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *camprunner* 
I'm hypothyroid. I was told that I needed to get my adrenals under control before they would even think about prescribing Thyroid medicine because people who have Adrenal fatigue tend not to respond well to the Thyroid meds. Even now, I notice that I'm a mess if I don't take the supplement for Adrenal Fatigue even when I've already had the Thyroid med.

This is what I've read too. Of course, there are exceptions. My ND has said that the thyroid is almost *always* affected in AF, *even if it doesn't show up in testing.* Mine has always shown up fine & dandy, but I do feel hypo symptoms which my ND said is normal in AF.

Stupid brain-fog, what was I going to ask??


----------



## Metasequoia

Oh, I remember! Tanya, I try to eat a few Brazil nuts every day - do you know how much selenium 1 nut supplies (approx, of course)?


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Oh, I remember! Tanya, I try to eat a few Brazil nuts every day - do you know how much selenium 1 nut supplies (approx, of course)?

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/n...roducts/3091/2

I had to double-check, I thought it was about 100mcg, and yep. I _love_ nutritiondata for looking up stuff like that.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/n...roducts/3091/2

I had to double-check, I thought it was about 100mcg, and yep. I _love_ nutritiondata for looking up stuff like that.

Bookmarked! What an awesome site (if you ignore NutritionData's Opinion







)!

So, what does 137% RDA translate to in reality?







How much selenium does one really need (especially one with fairly severe adrenal fatigue)?


----------



## WuWei

Two Brazil nuts, a day is considered the maximum. Yesterday, I learned that Brazil nuts are high in copper, which is like "anti-zinc". So, you don't want to deplete your zinc. Pumpkin seeds are high in zinc.









Pat


----------



## tanyalynn

This thread talks about selenium a fair amount (though it's a really, really long thread--but cool stuff on nutrition)...

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...d.php?t=406983

I don't know that selenium and adrenal fatigue are closely related. Thyroid problems, yeah, often, but I haven't run across it so much for AF.

At a guess, I'd say you're getting plenty, possibly more than you need (how many brazil nuts?). Eggs and meat can be good sources, it really depends on soil, more than many minerals. Some areas have very high soil selenium (the Dakotas) and some are quite low, so if people eat local (so the produce and their animal products are all either high or low), it could be a problem. I think there's a map of soil selenium in the US in that thread.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Two Brazil nuts, a day is considered the maximum. Yesterday, I learned that Brazil nuts are high in copper, which is like "anti-zinc". So, you don't want to deplete your zinc. Pumpkin seeds are high in zinc.









Pat

Yikes, we've been known to eat 4 or 5 a day - even the kids. I'll stick to 2/day at the max. I wonder if 1 a day for each kid is okay....or maybe 1 every other day?

According to my last blood draw results, my zinc was awesome. (93 with a ref. range of 60-130 mcg/dL - my ND was pleased with it, so I'm just going by what he said.)

I wouldn't say we eat *a lot* of pumpkin seeds, but probably more than most people. I use it often in baking (grinding the seeds into flour.)


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Two Brazil nuts, a day is considered the maximum. Yesterday, I learned that Brazil nuts are high in copper, which is like "anti-zinc". So, you don't want to deplete your zinc. Pumpkin seeds are high in zinc.









Pat

I would add the caveat that some of us are quite deficient and would do better with higher amounts. More so if there are thyroid problems involved than with just adrenal fatigue, but those of us with mercury problems, for example, probably could do with extra support to make more glutathione. It does get quite individual, and I agree with your general recommendation--well, I think most people could go a bit higher without much risk of problems, but more than 3 or 4 brazil nuts and people would need to be certain of what they're dealing with for their individual situations.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
This thread talks about selenium a fair amount (though it's a really, really long thread--but cool stuff on nutrition)...

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...d.php?t=406983

I don't know that selenium and adrenal fatigue are closely related. Thyroid problems, yeah, often, but I haven't run across it so much for AF.

At a guess, I'd say you're getting plenty, possibly more than you need (how many brazil nuts?). Eggs and meat can be good sources, it really depends on soil, more than many minerals. Some areas have very high soil selenium (the Dakotas) and some are quite low, so if people eat local (so the produce and their animal products are all either high or low), it could be a problem. I think there's a map of soil selenium in the US in that thread.

I remember reading that thread as it went along - I'll have to devote some time to reading through it again. Do you know when it gets into selenium? Roughly?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I would add the caveat that some of us are quite deficient and would do better with higher amounts. More so if there are thyroid problems involved than with just adrenal fatigue, but those of us with mercury problems, for example, probably could do with extra support to make more glutathione. It does get quite individual, and I agree with your general recommendation--well, I think most people could go a bit higher without much risk of problems, but more than 3 or 4 brazil nuts and people would need to be certain of what they're dealing with for their individual situations.

W/o testing, do you think 1 a day is safe for kids? Or 1 every other day? We rely on nuts & seeds for a lot of minerals here.


----------



## tanyalynn

I have to use the thread search option, but that'll be WAY faster than skimming. I would think toward the beginning, MT was big on selenium so I think it was one of the ones she started with.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I have to use the thread search option, but that'll be WAY faster than skimming. I would think toward the beginning, MT was big on selenium so I think it was one of the ones she started with.

I don't think I've ever done a thread search...

ETA: nevermind - I see the window.

Thanks Tanya!


----------



## Annikate

My 4 and 5 year olds take 50 mcgs of selenium a day.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
W/o testing, do you think 1 a day is safe for kids? Or 1 every other day? We rely on nuts & seeds for a lot of minerals here.

I'd need to read more on kids, normal fairly healthy kids, to have much of an opinion, Annikate's sounds reasonable. My research has tended toward unhealthy adult females.







But brazilnuts are a lot higher in selenium than other nuts, so it shouldn't change your general approach. But I would say that many nuts are high in copper, and since I tend to be low in zinc (higher copper intake reduces zinc absorption, or higher zinc intake lowers copper absorption--they compete in our bodies), you may want to look through a few of your nut/seed choices and see if you want to tweak anything else. In a week, I should have pumpkin seed butter! It originally came up because my son has a mild cashew allergy, so pre-made nut butters are problematic, but we like pumpkin seeds, they're tasty, and it'd be cool if I finally got a nut butter made. Pre-made foods are my friend!


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I'm one. But it's my understanding you should take care of adrenals first because your thyroid treatment will work better.

That's true. But, from what I understand, only because cortisol helps with the utilization of the thyroid hormones.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
you may want to look through a few of your nut/seed choices and see if you want to tweak anything else.

Yeah, realized this yesterday *after* I'd eaten like a pound of pistachios.







:


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
That's true. But, from what I understand, only because cortisol helps with the utilization of the thyroid hormones.

Most thyroid medication has a statement in the little pamphlet that says not to take it if the patient has untreated adrenal problems, though I don't know the exact wording.

I don't have a pamphlet right in front of me at the moment, but that's one of the things people complain about in my thyroid group when a doc won't treat adrenals...it says right on the medication that you're supposed to take care of adrenal problems first. For whatever reason, you'd think the people prescribing would know about it.

ETA-found it online, and yup, you're right, it's for adrenal cortical
insufficiency as you said, which many thyroid docs _completely ignore._

http://www.frx.com/pi/armourthyroid_pi.pdf

Cortisol is what helps many people overcome adrenal fatigue, whether they're taking hydrocortisone or using natural supplements to help their body produce more cortisol.


----------



## tanyalynn

No! Think of all the lovely things pistachios _do_ have, and enjoy that, and enjoy something else another day. I'm probably going to start shelling some of the brazil nuts for us (they've been reserved so far for our dog, she's old and has issues), they have lovely things, but I'm going to add in some other good stuff too. I'm _finally_ feeling like I can start paying more attention to what we eat. I've been going in cycles, and for the past few months, I've had no interest or extra energy to do stuff. I'm going to try the pumpkin seed butter (it has 4 or 5 ingredients, not so difficult, yet I haven't done it in the past year) and idlis (which are easy, just multi-day). You're pretty darn functional for a pregnant, not-feeling-well lady, so cut yourself some slack!


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
ETA-found it online, and yup, you're right, it's for adrenal cortical
insufficiency as you said, which many thyroid docs _completely ignore._

http://www.frx.com/pi/armourthyroid_pi.pdf

Cortisol is what helps many people overcome adrenal fatigue, whether they're taking hydrocortisone or using natural supplements to help their body produce more cortisol.

The problem is that the mainstream medical establishment only recognizes Addison's disease as adrenal insufficiency... anything that doesn't qualify as Addison's doesn't qualify as adrenal insufficiency, as far as they're concerned... Hence people not being treated for adrenal *fatigue* (until they go see a ND, DO or other "alternative" practitioner).
Thankfully, the first thing my ND did was put me on adrenal support. I'm so incredibly glad I found him.

ETA: It's nice to be right for a change.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
The problem is that the mainstream medical establishment only recognizes Addison's disease as adrenal insufficiency... anything that doesn't qualify as Addison's doesn't qualify as adrenal insufficiency, as far as they're concerned... Hence people not being treated for adrenal *fatigue* (until they go see a ND, DO or other "alternative" practitioner).
Thankfully, the first thing my ND did was put me on adrenal support. I'm so incredibly glad I found him.

Yup. It's a major source of _ass chappage_ for me.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
ETA: It's nice to be right for a change.

























:


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
No! Think of all the lovely things pistachios _do_ have, and enjoy that, and enjoy something else another day. I'm probably going to start shelling some of the brazil nuts for us (they've been reserved so far for our dog, she's old and has issues), they have lovely things, but I'm going to add in some other good stuff too. I'm _finally_ feeling like I can start paying more attention to what we eat. I've been going in cycles, and for the past few months, I've had no interest or extra energy to do stuff. I'm going to try the pumpkin seed butter (it has 4 or 5 ingredients, not so difficult, yet I haven't done it in the past year) and idlis (which are easy, just multi-day). You're pretty darn functional for a pregnant, not-feeling-well lady, so cut yourself some slack!

Only recently have I started really getting functional again... For 4 or 5 months prior to this, I sat on the couch all day feeling terrible. My floors didn't get washed for about 3 months, I only washed clothes when everyone had none clean, I postponed supper as long as I could, and I have *yet* to unpack (we've been in this house for what? 2 months now?







).
My suggestion to you is this: first thing you should do is make a supper menu. That way, you can sort of go on auto-pilot for supper. I have 3 weeks of suppers planned. They're not the *best* nutritionally, but they're better than we've been eating the last several months and it allows me to concentrate on everything else that has been neglected (including the kids and DH) while I was out of commission.
Now that I have my prenatals back in my supps, my next supp to add is my adrenal support, so hopefully I'll be feeling even better soon!


----------



## MommyHawk

does anyone know of a good herbal tea that you drink in the morning to help boost your cortisol levels?


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyHawk* 
does anyone know of a good herbal tea that you drink in the morning to help boost your cortisol levels?

Have you heard of my green juice? Or kefir?








Bone broth?

Pat


----------



## MommyHawk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Have you heard of my green juice? Or kefir?







Bone broth?

Pat

green juice? NO

Keifer? Yes, we drink it in the morning - does this boost cortisol levels?

bone broth...gross...in the morning?


----------



## bigeyes

I think it was in this thread someone suggested yerba mate.

I haven't noticed any big change when I drink it. It tastes like a whole lot of nothing, and it must have some caffeine because I don't get a caffeine withdrawal headache when I use it instead of coffee....but I switched for about a week and didn't notice any difference in the way I felt. I still drink it occasionally just to use it up, but I don't think I'll buy it again.

YMMV.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyHawk* 
does anyone know of a good herbal tea that you drink in the morning to help boost your cortisol levels?

Not cortisol directly, but licorice helps adrenal fatigue by increasing sodium (in a complex way - it's described back in the beginning of this thread.) I don't know if it's as effective when heated in a tea.

On the topic of teas - does anyone know if chamomile lowers blood pressure like valerian does? I've noticed that I feel more lightheaded after drinking chamomile tea.

Oh! This morning I ate about 1-2 TBSP of raw beef liver. I cut it into very small pieces & swallowed them whole. Man, I felt great for a couple of hours, totally energized, less brain fog...then it wore off.

For dinner we had grilled heart again. I'm finally using up all of these organs!


----------



## kjbrown92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Two Brazil nuts, a day is considered the maximum. Yesterday, I learned that Brazil nuts are high in copper, which is like "anti-zinc". So, you don't want to deplete your zinc. Pumpkin seeds are high in zinc.









Pat

I had just put brazil nuts on my Whole Foods list today when I read this. If my hair elements toxic elements test showed me at super high copper, should I not be getting brazil nuts? I'm trying to figure out adrenal support since I'm finally going to do something about mine (that I've ignored because I thought the ND was making it up even though my saliva test was positive).


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kjbrown92* 
I had just put brazil nuts on my Whole Foods list today when I read this. If my hair elements toxic elements test showed me at super high copper, should I not be getting brazil nuts? I'm trying to figure out adrenal support since I'm finally going to do something about mine (that I've ignored because I thought the ND was making it up even though my saliva test was positive).

I think Pat was saying that you should only have 2 a day because of the copper- 2 also provides enough selenium for most people.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I think Pat was saying that you should only have 2 a day because of the copper- 2 also provides enough selenium for most people.

Yeah, when I scrapped my TED, I gorged on brazilnuts (for some reason they were in the house in abundance as opposed to all other food that had been banned). The next day, I had the worst brain fog ever, and then spots appeared on a couple of fingernails in the same spot, growth-wise. White specks on your fingernails are associated with zinc deficiency.


----------



## lucky_mia

Anyone else crashing in the afternoon around 4pm? If so, is there anything you are doing that is getting you through it?


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
Anyone else crashing in the afternoon around 4pm? If so, is there anything you are doing that is getting you through it?

Yes I do. Not sure what to do about it.


----------



## Periwinkle

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
Anyone else crashing in the afternoon around 4pm? If so, is there anything you are doing that is getting you through it?

I used to before I gave up ALL forms of caffeine. Now I crash around 9:30pm right in time for bed.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

I do, though not as often as I used to. For instance, today I actually sat on the couch between 4 and 5 and read a book while ds#1 watched TV. Normally, I would have been out that entire hour (or at least as long as any of the three boys would let me), and there are still many days each week where I still would fall asleep (probably half the days of a week I'm totally dropping). What seems to be a difference, at least today (and maybe I'll try to keep some journal/record) is that I had baby spinach in my smoothie today (about a cup of raw dark leafy greens







). I ate an okay lunch, but not too much. I have been pretty up on my supplements today including licorice and AdreneVive. I took magnesium and cod liver oil last night before bed. And when I got snacky about 3pm, I ate a bunch of raw almonds and then had a few roasted plantain chips (







). So, I'm not sure, but thinking something out of that list might have helped today. I can feel, though, that I will probably be very ready for bed by 10pm at the latest tonight.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I think Pat was saying that you should only have 2 a day because of the copper- 2 also provides enough selenium for most people.

You have to be careful of selenium, that's what Pat was saying. Brazil nuts have SO much selenium, that about two nuts is what you can safely eat in one day.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Yeah, when I scrapped my TED, I gorged on brazilnuts (for some reason they were in the house in abundance as opposed to all other food that had been banned). The next day, I had the worst brain fog ever, and then spots appeared on a couple of fingernails in the same spot, growth-wise. White specks on your fingernails are associated with zinc deficiency.

I don't have a bad reaction to Brazil nuts & I eat 2 or 3 every day (the kids each eat 1 - I give it to them & call it the "magic nut.")

BUT, my zinc level is awesome, so that could make all the difference. I eat a lot of nuts, especially pecans, walnuts & Brazil nuts, but I also eat a lot of red meat & pumpkin seeds, which have a lot of zinc.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
Anyone else crashing in the afternoon around 4pm? If so, is there anything you are doing that is getting you through it?

I've found that eating a few small pieces of raw liver gives me a GREAT boost! I chop it up really small so I can swallow the pieces whole with water - don't even taste it! The boost is like caffeine, without the jitters. I eat between 1 - 2 TBSP a day.

I have a cup of green tea in the morning & skip all other caffeine throughout the day.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lucky_mia* 
Anyone else crashing in the afternoon around 4pm? If so, is there anything you are doing that is getting you through it?

The last 3-4 days have I been feeling good ALL day long. If I eat a big green salad for lunch that helps and of course stay away from the junk food (processed and sugars), but I think what's really making the difference for me is my thyroid supp and my adreno supp.


----------



## neveryoumindthere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
The last 3-4 days have I been feeling good ALL day long. If I eat a big green salad for lunch that helps and of course stay away from the junk food (processed and sugars), but I think what's really making the difference for me is my thyroid supp and my adreno supp.









nak
sorry i might have missed it, which thyro/adrenal supps are you taking


----------



## tanyalynn

My solution to the 4pm crash (it was worse last year) was less impressive. I moved the kids' naptime later in the day a bit, and I napped with them, and I worked on accepting that I was going to be doing life on slow speed for a while, and that helped with me feeling stressed out about how bad I felt. But since you're on Cortef, should you be getting this? I'd sorta think you could just ask to up your dosage (is it a once-a-day thing? or could you do another smaller dose at midday? My husband's taking an adrenal support supp, with breakfast, with lunch and it's optional to take more around 4 or 5pm). Oh, and my other solution was finding a few TV shows we could all snuggle and enjoy together from 4-5pm, we like Good Eats on the food network and MythBusters (lots of discussions of explosions in our house







).


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
You have to be careful of selenium, that's what Pat was saying. Brazil nuts have SO much selenium, that about two nuts is what you can safely eat in one day.

Thank you for the clarification.









I took my supp last night and I can already feel it starting to work. I've been experiencing shortness of breath (among other symptoms) ever since I stopped taking it in October and it already seems to be getting better.







I am so looking forward to full effects.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
nak
sorry i might have missed it, which thyro/adrenal supps are you taking

Nature Thyroid and the adrenal supp I'm taking now is called AdrenoPower - it's royal jelly powder + a "proprietary blend" but I think it really helps. It's hard to know which is helping more b/c I started them at the same time (along w/other new supps.)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
My solution to the 4pm crash (it was worse last year) was less impressive. I moved the kids' naptime later in the day a bit, and I napped with them, and I worked on accepting that I was going to be doing life on slow speed for a while, and that helped with me feeling stressed out about how bad I felt. But since you're on Cortef, should you be getting this? I'd sorta think you could just ask to up your dosage (is it a once-a-day thing? or could you do another smaller dose at midday? My husband's taking an adrenal support supp, with breakfast, with lunch and it's optional to take more around 4 or 5pm). Oh, and my other solution was finding a few TV shows we could all snuggle and enjoy together from 4-5pm, we like Good Eats on the food network and MythBusters (lots of discussions of explosions in our house







).

Oh man, I think that's very impressive. I've been praying for nap times since my girls were born. Seriously. I have non-nappers and now that they are almost 4 and 5, I've pretty much let that resentment go.


----------



## bigeyes

Yikes. I just learned the thing they give me to help me sleep contributes to my brain fog, fast heart rate and increased blood pressure.

Of course, when I asked, the pharmacist and the doctor told me _it didn't._










I cannot find anything that will help me sleep that doesn't have [email protected] side effects. And if I take _nothing,_ I get daily headaches from lack of sleep.





















:


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I cannot find anything that will help me sleep that doesn't have [email protected] side effects. And if I take _nothing,_ I get daily headaches from lack of sleep.





















:
















Tryptophan doesn't help? That's what my allergist suggested when I commented on my crap sleep- although, as I'm learning in the detox discussions in the Allergies forum, it does point to other nutrient deficiencies. I'm just not sure which nutrients to be able to say yet.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Yikes. I just learned the thing they give me to help me sleep contributes to my brain fog, fast heart rate and increased blood pressure.

Of course, when I asked, the pharmacist and the doctor told me _it didn't._










I cannot find anything that will help me sleep that doesn't have [email protected] side effects. And if I take _nothing,_ I get daily headaches from lack of sleep.





















:
















We take phosphatydilserine at bed and it helps us sleep. I also make sure I take my magnesium and 1 teaspoon of honey, and combined, I think they are all working at making my sleep more sound and maybe a bit more restful.


----------



## Annikate

Can you try melatonin to help you sleep?

I really think that the phosphatidylcholine I'm taking helps me sleep. Well, that and the magnesium for sure.


----------



## Annikate

Okay, what about teeth grinding at night? Is anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## lucky_mia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
My solution to the 4pm crash (it was worse last year) was less impressive. I moved the kids' naptime later in the day a bit, and I napped with them, and I worked on accepting that I was going to be doing life on slow speed for a while, and that helped with me feeling stressed out about how bad I felt. But since you're on Cortef, should you be getting this? I'd sorta think you could just ask to up your dosage (is it a once-a-day thing? or could you do another smaller dose at midday? My husband's taking an adrenal support supp, with breakfast, with lunch and it's optional to take more around 4 or 5pm). Oh, and my other solution was finding a few TV shows we could all snuggle and enjoy together from 4-5pm, we like Good Eats on the food network and MythBusters (lots of discussions of explosions in our house







).

I have done some afternoon napping but then my kids are up until 10PM and I don't have the energy for that. The other day I actually put them in front of the tv while took a nap in the next room (I could hear them). Of course I can't really nap at work although I told my boss we need a napping pod.







It would greatly improve my productivity. Yesterday I did end up taking an extra dose of prendisone. I may need to add a daily afternoon dose but I would prefer to find another solution. I may try a adjusting my diet. I really need to add nuts back into my diet but I won't keep them in the house because of DS's allergy. Maybe I can store some at work, especially since I don't think the napping pod is coming.


----------



## bigeyes

I've tried melatonin, it didn't do the trick. I don't reach the REM state without artificial help, which may be related to adrenal fatigue or fibromyalgia, or just another freak medical thing I have wrong with me.









I suspect it's related to fibro, though. Most of the things they've tried either give me a headache or make me st000000000pid, and I'm terrified of ambien. All I need is to sleep-eat or sleep-drive.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Oh man, I think that's very impressive. I've been praying for nap times since my girls were born. Seriously. I have non-nappers and now that they are almost 4 and 5, I've pretty much let that resentment go.









Thank you.







And I got lucky--when we cut out gluten, my daughter (then 3.5yo) started napping again--it had been more than a year since she'd napped regularly, but apparently the gluten was throwing off a lot of things in her body. She's 5 now and if we have a busy morning, sometimes she'll still nap! But if not, she's good with a quiet time in her room. My son's not going to be happy with quiet time alone so whenever he outgrows napping, I think my naptime is going to be over.

Mia--for some short-sighted reason, I assumed you were home with your kids. Tiredness is hard when you are at work. I did that for a while too, I worked part time til my son (now getting close to 3) turned 1, and it was such a hard year. I felt like I was doing a horrible job at work, constant guilt and fear they were going to notice I was a terrible slacker.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Well, I just reworked what we are taking as I realized that I, especially, was taking way too much of certain B vitamins. I think I'm happy with what I did and I think as long as we keep adding more and more vegetables to our diet, we'll be doing good. (We are tweaking our diet too ... a little less heavy on the animal protein and more heavy on the greens/veggies.) I really think a degree in biochemistry should be next on my list!









Terri, that supplement you are taking made me realize that I want to get some more royal jelly from our bee-man. Or, maybe I'll just get a jar of the cappings; we all love to eat those.


----------



## lucky_mia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
.

Mia--for some short-sighted reason, I assumed you were home with your kids. Tiredness is hard when you are at work. I did that for a while too, I worked part time til my son (now getting close to 3) turned 1, and it was such a hard year. I felt like I was doing a horrible job at work, constant guilt and fear they were going to notice I was a terrible slacker.

I work three days and I am home the other four so part time working and full time parenting. No wonder I'm tired! Luckily my job is a bit flexible and they know my kids come first. Actually, it is a big help to me to be able to come to work because being with the kids all day can be so physical that it really takes a toll on me, plus I work the school calendar so summers off.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Okay, what about teeth grinding at night? Is anyone else experiencing this?

My only experience with it (I do it, apparently have for years, and at times it's caused quite a bit of discomfort) is in relation to magnesium deficiency and/or mercury toxicity.


----------



## MissyH

I used to grind my teeth a lot, but not so much anymore. Because of the adrenal fatigue I developed hypoglycemia. I thought I was just suffering from sudden onset of anxiety, but had no idea why. Actually the anxiety was triggered by the hypoglycemia. I would get an adrenalin rush in the middle of the night and would be grinding my teeth in my sleep, but would also wake up w/panic attacks. Anyway, are you having blood sugar problems at night? Once I got that issue under control the teeth grinding improved greatly.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
My solution to the 4pm crash (it was worse last year) was less impressive. I moved the kids' naptime later in the day a bit, and I napped with them, and I worked on accepting that I was going to be doing life on slow speed for a while, and that helped with me feeling stressed out about how bad I felt. But since you're on Cortef, should you be getting this? I'd sorta think you could just ask to up your dosage (is it a once-a-day thing? or could you do another smaller dose at midday? My husband's taking an adrenal support supp, with breakfast, with lunch and it's optional to take more around 4 or 5pm). Oh, and my other solution was finding a few TV shows we could all snuggle and enjoy together from 4-5pm, we like Good Eats on the food network and MythBusters (lots of discussions of explosions in our house







).

I wish I could nap some days. My older two just won't nap & if I leave them alone while I nap, they end up fighting.









Some days, especially if I've been standing in the kitchen for long periods of time, I'll sit down around 3 or 4 o'clock with a cup of tea & a book or magazine. It's a nice little break while dinner cooks. Other days, I just plug on through, which is easier if we're out & about - then I get dinner cooked & served & I drop like a fly after clean-up.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Okay, what about teeth grinding at night? Is anyone else experiencing this?

I used to have *TERRIBLE* TMJ after Dd1's birth. It was so awful that I'd sit here & just cry. I could only open my mouth just enough to squeeze a tooth brush inside.







It ended up affecting my hearing as well, because of the inflammation pushing on my eustachian tubes.
My chiro helped a bit, working inside of my mouth once a week & I eventually had a custom night guard made, which I'd wear to bed & while I mowed the lawn (always clenched while mowing the lawn...) It didn't always help & I ended up breaking my nightguard by clenching.

This was also my highest time of anxiety (except for after Ds's birth.) I was a wreck. I think the new fears of having a child in the big bad world really hit me. I worked on my anxieties back then (if only I'd known about adrenal fatigue back then!!!) & the TMJ got better.

My current chiro says it's a neck issue. I haven't had any TMJ issues in years & years now and I don't know what to attribute it too. It didn't even flare up during my monumental period of stress after Ds was born, so maybe it was the good chiro care?

The nightguard "taught" me how to hold my tongue - to let it rest gently behind my upper front teeth. I guess many people tend to hold it tense behind the lower front teeth. Maybe this is what helped?

I didn't do any detoxing (except bfing 3 children....) I've only fairly recently started supping with magnesium, and I am not good about keeping up with it. I do think that both of those suggestions (detoxing & mag. supps) are beneficial, whether or not they relieve the TMJ pain. I can see how mag. would help, since it relaxes the muscles.

I feel for you, TMJ pain is AWFUL.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissyH* 
I used to grind my teeth a lot, but not so much anymore. Because of the adrenal fatigue I developed hypoglycemia. I thought I was just suffering from sudden onset of anxiety, but had no idea why. Actually the anxiety was triggered by the hypoglycemia. I would get an adrenalin rush in the middle of the night and would be grinding my teeth in my sleep, but would also wake up w/panic attacks. Anyway, are you having blood sugar problems at night? Once I got that issue under control the teeth grinding improved greatly.

I'm not sure. How do I tell if I'm having blood sugar issues at night? I often do wake up and go eat a banana though.







It seems the easiest thing to eat and obviously my body is asking for it b/c it's not really like I'm hungry if ykwim.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 

My current chiro says it's a neck issue. I haven't had any TMJ issues in years & years now and I don't know what to attribute it too. It didn't even flare up during my monumental period of stress after Ds was born, so maybe it was the good chiro care?

The nightguard "taught" me how to hold my tongue - to let it rest gently behind my upper front teeth. I guess many people tend to hold it tense behind the lower front teeth. Maybe this is what helped?


I don't really feel any pain but I do wake myself up doing it and sometimes even while I'm "sleeping" I'll be conscious that I"m doing it. I even do it during the day.









My dentist wanted to give me one of those guards a few years ago. And hmm....maybe I should get back to my chiro soon.


----------



## Theloose

When I find myself clenching my teeth (during the day - never noticed it at night), bone meal helps me a lot. I think it's me being low in minerals.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissyH* 
I used to grind my teeth a lot, but not so much anymore. Because of the adrenal fatigue I developed hypoglycemia. I thought I was just suffering from sudden onset of anxiety, but had no idea why. Actually the anxiety was triggered by the hypoglycemia. I would get an adrenalin rush in the middle of the night and would be grinding my teeth in my sleep, but would also wake up w/panic attacks. Anyway, are you having blood sugar problems at night? Once I got that issue under control the teeth grinding improved greatly.

Just read this today.

*"The Diet Connection&#8230;*

Your diet is a major contributor to adrenal fatigue and exhaustion and must be addressed! You can't overcome it by simply swallowing more pills!

Low blood sugar and digestive difficulties cause the adrenals to produce additional cortisol and adrenaline, which results in even more work for the adrenal glands which is added to all the emotional and physical stress in our life.

The adrenals can only handle so much work before they become depleted and you feel the result of adrenal exhaustion.

Cortisol and adrenaline are used to balance your blood sugar when it drops. As your blood sugar drops due to skipped meals, delayed meals, or eating the wrong foods (processed, refined grains and high fructose corn syrup), your adrenals will be forced to produce even more cortisol and adrenaline. This is a big problem! If the adrenals are exhausted and unable to produce enough cortisol or adrenaline then your blood sugar will continue to drop! This brings on the cravings, hypoglycemia, PMS, inability to focus, ADD and weight gain.

It is a vicious cycle that keeps repeating itself and needs to be addressed. You can take all of the supplements you want, but they won't help your adrenals if you can't keep your blood sugar stable. This is why you will never restore your adrenal glands if you can't keep your blood sugar stable!"

*"The Digestion Connection&#8230;*

Bloating, indigestion, heartburn, reflux or any of the other irritable bowel problems add to the stress on your adrenals.

When your digestive system is irritated and inflamed, your body's natural response is to eliminate the inflammation. Cortisol, produced by the adrenals, is generated to reduce inflammation. So, the continual irritation in your digestive system causes your adrenal glands to produce more cortisol. This is more work for the adrenal glands and contributes to the overproduction of cortisol and adrenaline racing through your body.

This contributes to the vicious cycle, because elevated levels of cortisol begins to erode the intestinal lining. This leaves you susceptible to hidden food allergies, yeast, fungus, and candida overgrowth. These all contribute to digestive difficulties which further inflames the intestines and causes more work for the adrenal glands."

http://www.natratech.com/Solutions/a...exhaustion.htm


----------



## MissyH

For me I figured out the hypoglycemia because even during the day I started to have problems. I would get dizzy and tingly especially if I ate carbs and simple sugars. One time I had a coke and a few hours later my arms started tingling and heart started racing. Then I started to notice this sort of thing more and more. If you are hungry at night you might be having blood sugar problems. I have had to eat at night for years and finally when I switched my diet I can sleep through the night. Instead of a banana at night you might try something with protein instead like a hard boiled egg or whole grain toast w/nut butter and see if that helps.

I'm sure there are a lot of reasons for bruxism, this is just my experience.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I'm not sure. How do I tell if I'm having blood sugar issues at night? I often do wake up and go eat a banana though.







It seems the easiest thing to eat and obviously my body is asking for it b/c it's not really like I'm hungry if ykwim.

I don't know if it helps or not, but I have had TMJ issues for quite a while (I have to be conscious of what I'm doing or I'll realize that I've been clenching my jaw/teeth). Something that seems to help, at least at night, is when I make sure I take my magnesium at night and follow it with about 1 teaspoon of raw honey. Then I try to go right to sleep. Honey helps promote restorative sleep. Maybe between the muscle relaxation of the magnesium and the overall body relaxation of the honey, you will stop clenching your teeth?


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Just read this today.

*"The Diet Connection&#8230;*

Your diet is a major contributor to adrenal fatigue and exhaustion and must be addressed! You can't overcome it by simply swallowing more pills!

...

When your digestive system is irritated and inflamed, your body's natural response is to eliminate the inflammation. Cortisol, produced by the adrenals, is generated to reduce inflammation. So, the continual irritation in your digestive system causes your adrenal glands to produce more cortisol. This is more work for the adrenal glands and contributes to the overproduction of cortisol and adrenaline racing through your body.

This contributes to the vicious cycle, because elevated levels of cortisol begins to erode the intestinal lining. This leaves you susceptible to hidden food allergies, yeast, fungus, and candida overgrowth. These all contribute to digestive difficulties which further inflames the intestines and causes more work for the adrenal glands."

http://www.natratech.com/Solutions/a...exhaustion.htm

Awesome article Pat! Thanks.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Awesome article Pat! Thanks.









Ditto!

I wonder which came first for me, the AF or the gluten sensitivity? The chicken or the egg?


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Ditto!

I wonder which came first for me, the AF or the gluten sensitivity? The chicken or the egg?









I've wondered that too. I'm assuming for me, it was the gluten. (I think I was born with it!







) I wonder if between my mom's copious use of anti-acids while pregnant, me being formula fed and fully vax'ed, continuously sick with ear infections and thus on antibiotics all the time didn't have something to do with probably very early on-set of AF.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Ditto!

I wonder which came first for me, the AF or the gluten sensitivity? The chicken or the egg?









Yeah. And where does vitamin D deficiency fit into it all?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Yeah. And where does vitamin D deficiency fit into it all?

Sheesh. What an interesting article. I hate to think of what my health would be like had I not been breastfed.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I don't know if it helps or not, but I have had TMJ issues for quite a while (I have to be conscious of what I'm doing or I'll realize that I've been clenching my jaw/teeth). Something that seems to help, at least at night, is when I make sure I take my magnesium at night and follow it with about 1 teaspoon of raw honey. Then I try to go right to sleep. Honey helps promote restorative sleep. Maybe between the muscle relaxation of the magnesium and the overall body relaxation of the honey, you will stop clenching your teeth?

Interesting. I'll start taking some honey at night then.


----------



## MissyH

Honey is fine as long as you don't have a problem with low blood sugar. If you do have a problem with blood sugar, this may only make your problem worse.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:

Honey is fine as long as you don't have a problem with low blood sugar. If you do have a problem with blood sugar, this may only make your problem worse.
Apparently, honey is different because of the fructose, in addition to glucose. Fructose is stored in the liver for future needs of blood sugar regulation. *The glucose formed from the fructose is stored in the liver and released only if and when blood glucose falls. AND "The Fructose Paradox" allows for glucose uptake into the liver and therefore prevents a rapid rise in blood glucose.
*
The first and third links talk about the melatonin connection also. Also related to growth hormone production.
http://www.apitherapy.org/pdfs/Websi...HoneyFood2.pdf
http://www.isoactive.com/hd/honey.htm
http://www.prohoneyandhealth.com/Use...20Cycle-FL.pdf

From the second article:

Quote:


Any fall in blood glucose is dangerous for the brain. Even a minor fall in blood glucose will cause the brain to panic. This will cause the adrenal glands to be activated, to go into hyper drive and the adrenal hormones are, if overproduced toxic to human biology.
The hormones are of course essential for the type of crisis mentioned but these hormones (stress hormones) make us sick if we produce them chronically.

Chronic overproduction of the adrenal glands is the condition of modern man and will lead to conditions such as heart disease, osteoporosis, obesity, diabetes (non insulin dependent), poor immune function, depression and other distressing conditions with which we are all familiar.

If we can look after our liver glycogen store, by including in our diet the correct balance of carbohydrates so that both the liver and therefore the brain are catered for at all times of the day and night we reduce the requirement for production of the adrenal hormones, and we can then reserve our adrenal glands for their correct function which is for fight or flight.

How do we do this?

By stabilizing blood glucose.

How do we do this?

By looking after our liver glycogen store in the way that nature intended, by using natural fructose from fruit, dried fruit, fruit juice and the other natural source, honey.

And, there's more! Honey contains small amounts of a wide array of vitamins, minerals, *amino acids and antioxidants (and probiotics)*. The vitamins found in honey may include (depending on floral variety) niacin, thiamin, riboflavin and pantothenic acid; minerals present include calcium, copper, iron, magnesium, manganese, phosphorus, potassium and zinc.
http://www.foodreference.com/html/art-honey-health.html

"recommend not more than 10 teaspoons of honey (which is about 50ml)"
*
Different varietals of honey possess a large amount of friendly bacteria (6 species of lactobacilli and 4 species of bifidobacteria)*, which may explain many of the "mysterious therapeutic properties of honey."
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...dspice&dbid=96
http://www.prohoneyandhealth.com/Use...m%20Report.pdf

Clinical studies have shown that honey enhances the growth of healthful bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract. The effect of honey was similar to that of commercial FOS, GOS and inulin. Sweeteners other than honey did not appear to have an effect on stimulating bifidobacteria growth.

1. Honey can enhance the growth of acid production of human Bifidobacterium ss. Journal of Food Protection. 2002; 65(1); 214-8
2. Honey enhances the production of lactic acid from Bifidobacteria, Journal of Food Science, 2001;66(3): 478-481
http://www.weebeehoney.net/honey_for_health.html

I'm rather impressed with honey! I didn't realize the extent of the benefits.

Pat


----------



## Annikate

Thanks Pat!

I do not have a blood sugar issue that I'm aware of and my melatonin levels are fine. I do bake w/honey and put it in my tea but now I'll have to take a tsp. at night and see. If it'll help my tooth grinding I'll be happy! Dh takes it off the spoon each day for allergies. Raw, local that is.


----------



## mellowjello

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeingMe* 
I have a question on Neurosciences test... The 2 times I tested before I used ZRT and they showed my levels improving. However, I used neuroscience last time because my new doc rec'd them and they show my levels are horrible, and of course they told me to buy their products. What do you think? Any chance the results are skewed to make people buy their products?

Huh, I will ask my ND next time. Interesting!


----------



## isaoma

Hi everyone







:

I am still making my way through the entire post, but wanted to introduce myself. I'm pretty sure I've had some level of adrenal fatigue for most of my life. But lately, it seems to be pretty bad: hard time thermoregulating-cold hand, feet & shivering; extreme exhaustion to the extent I don't have energy to even think about preforming regular tasks, hypoglycemia, ...and more but I don't want to bore you.

I haven't had any tests done yet and at this point I need to find out more about the type of test to take and who will administer them (MD or ND or DOM?)

I'm still nursing an older toddler so I've been conservative on supplements until I can do more research. I'm trying to wean as we speak (though she has different plans). I feel that my body needs a break.

I'm taking b-complex vitamins (New Chapter), Adrenals, and Gaia Adrenal Support.

I'm not sure what my next step should be, but I feel like I need to get more agressive before I don't have an energy to tackle this or my regular life.


----------



## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *isaoma* 
I haven't had any tests done yet and at this point I need to find out more about the type of test to take and who will administer them (MD or ND or DOM?)

My family practitioner told me there was no such thing as "adrenal fatigue" and when the thyroid panel she ran came back (borderline) normal she had her nurse leave a message on my machine saying all tests came back fine and to come back in a few months if symptoms persisted.

I had an 18-month old baby and I was SO exhausted and irritable and light-headed all the time. It was horrible. And she had her messenger telling me to come back in a few months?

I'm still bitter about that.

My ND had me do the saliva test for cortisol levels and helped me with supplements and things to deal with it. I think for me one of the biggest helps has been cutting out gluten and most processed grains, sugar (when I *can* do this it helps a lot) and adding lots of healing foods like coconut oil, fermented milk (coconut milk right now), bone broth, etc.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *isaoma* 
Hi everyone







:

I am still making my way through the entire post, but wanted to introduce myself. I'm pretty sure I've had some level of adrenal fatigue for most of my life. But lately, it seems to be pretty bad: hard time thermoregulating-cold hand, feet & shivering; extreme exhaustion to the extent I don't have energy to even think about preforming regular tasks, hypoglycemia, ...and more but I don't want to bore you.

I haven't had any tests done yet and at this point I need to find out more about the type of test to take and who will administer them (MD or ND or DOM?)

I'm still nursing an older toddler so I've been conservative on supplements until I can do more research. I'm trying to wean as we speak (though she has different plans). I feel that my body needs a break.

I'm taking b-complex vitamins (New Chapter), Adrenals, and Gaia Adrenal Support.

I'm not sure what my next step should be, but I feel like I need to get more agressive before I don't have an energy to tackle this or my regular life.

Welcome!

I've always done the Diagnos-Techs ASI (adrenal stress index) which is a saliva cortisol test done 4 times throughout the day (approx 8am, noon, evening & midnight - can't remember the exact times.) It's important to do this method so you can see what your cortisol is like throughout the day - for instance, mine is just low all day long, but, it's not *as* low at night, so even though it's still below normal at night, my body still sees it as high since it's the highest of all of my daily levels - does that make sense?

Any doctor (I believe) can order this test. My ND orders mine.

Nursing is tough - right before adrenal fatigue kicked my @ss, I was tandem nursing Dd2 at 3.5 yrs old & newborn Ds. I did it for 3 months & weaned Dd2. I remember driving to the post office & being so incredibly dizzy while there that I had to sit in my car for 15 minutes wondering if I could even drive home. It all makes sense now, but it was scary back then.

Your supps sound good - depending on your test results, you might add things. I've been taking pregnenolone & glandulars while nursing Ds since he was 10 months old (he'll be 3 y.o. in 2 weeks.) Licorice too, which helps balance your sodium levels, if that's a problem.

Obviously, you'll do best with a doctor who understands AF & how to treat it. Unfortunately, they're few & far between.

There's a link to the Diagnos-Techs website in the first post of this thread.


----------



## moneca

Hello! I think I know most of the mamas here from TF or chelating. I started reading this thread over a year ago and just now finished







.

I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue by Dr. Schmid back in the fall of 2005. At the time I had a dd with health issues (vomiting all the time and losing weight) that no one seemed to be able to diagnose, just moved from the mountains to NYC being incredibly homesick, and DH losing job after job (film world not having all their funding raised). I went through 3 weeks sleeping one hour a night and wanted to stay on the couch all day. I was always the person sleeping as soon as my head hit the pillow until the sun came up and popping out of bed. Thankfully two things helped me quickly and tremendously.

Dr. Schmid put me on 6 of his dessicated adrenal caps per day and that made a difference in about two months with the sleeping and return of energy. I was also suffering from depression. I had been put on ambien and zoloft by a psychiatrist who diagnosed me with traumatic stress disorder. After a month nothing was better. My dd's ND talked me into doing a urine test for neurotransmitter levels by Neuroscience Inc. All my levels were skewed with dopamine being at the lowest level that could be recorded on this particular test despite being on the zoloft.

I started the two supplements suggested by the company which were a mix of vitamins, minerals, and herbs. I was feeling more "up" within a few weeks. I quit the zoloft and ambien. One month after starting the supplements the depression was largely lifted. I repeated the urine test. All my neurotransmitters came back improved with my dopamine being at a therapeutic level.

I had just begun NT eating at the time. I continued the Neuroscience supps for about one year and the adrenals for 9 months. I started eating strict TF shortly after that and have continued for 3 1/2 years now. I think my continued healing despite the fact that "life" did not get easier for years was due to the way I was eating and the superfood supps. I also began chelation shortly after that.

I currently have symptoms that I thought were signs of slight hypothyroidism so I began iodine supplementation several months ago. The more I read I wondered if I didn't still have some adrenal imbalance too. My symptoms : fibrocystic breasts, cold hands/feet, hypothermic (96-97.5), salt cravings, low bp (110/70), and a little bit of weight around the middle that I never used to have.

I read Dr. Cowan's book Fourfold Path To Healing which included a chapter on adrenal fatigue. I was going to order more dessicated adrenal gland supps, but was intrigued by his use of Standard Process protomorphogens instead. He suggests taking them for 6 months to help rebuild the adrenals. I love his balanced approach to healing always incorporating traditional foods. I've been on the protomorphogens for two months now. I've noticed a slight improvement in my blood pressure, a lessening of my craving for salt, and some weight disappearing from around the middle.

At the point I was incredibly stressed and diagnosed with AF I was actually quite thin. It wasn't until 9 months after being diagnosed with AF that I suddenly noticed extra weight around my belly and feeling cold most of the time. I was wondering whether taking the adrenal caps could have caused my own adrenals to atrophy. I also began chelating around that time and wondered if that could have caused damage to my already weakened adrenals. I think I've decided on the latter.

Anyway, that is where I am. Just trying to tweak at this point and get some answers as to whether the adrenals are the root cause of my symptoms.

Great thread!!! Thanks for all the additional info.


----------



## Metasequoia

I am SO brain dead, Moneca! I was reading your post thinking, "wait a minute, ANOTHER person thinks that their adrenals atrophied because of glandulars??"

Then I remembered that your thread was in TF, not here.







No wonder it sounded familiar.


----------



## mellowjello

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Just read this today.

*"The Diet Connection&#8230;*

Cortisol and adrenaline are used to balance your blood sugar when it drops. As your blood sugar drops due to skipped meals, delayed meals, or eating the wrong foods (processed, refined grains and high fructose corn syrup), your adrenals will be forced to produce even more cortisol and adrenaline. This is a big problem! If the adrenals are exhausted and unable to produce enough cortisol or adrenaline then your blood sugar will continue to drop! This brings on the cravings, hypoglycemia, PMS, inability to focus, ADD and weight gain.

It is a vicious cycle that keeps repeating itself and needs to be addressed.
http://www.natratech.com/Solutions/a...exhaustion.htm


This is totally me. Looking back I can see that I was hypoglycemic since childhood, probably AF too (maybe AF caused). Fainting, binging, feeling weak/trembly, needing to eat often. But of course all my complaints were "in my head."







: Then when I was pregnant with DD I felt super fatigued, super weak, super moody/crying jags, super thirsty, peeing every hour, tested neg. for gest. diabetes, and my OBGYN attributed it all to normal pregnancy stuff. When DD was born she had health issues and I got worse. Went on total elim diet and was miserable. Would binge on what I COULD eat (a lot of rice products like cake, bread, ice cream or potato chips) and had irritability/rages. I knew it was a problem but kept doing it because everyone said there was nothing wrong with me, including DH, so I was sort of in denial and sort of trying to prove it to everyone. With each binge I got worse and successively have had to remove more and more from my diet, to the point now where I eat a very strict diabetic type diet with no room for error. I feel so stupid and angry that I drove my body to this place.

I can't wait to get my results back and start some kind of treatment! My biggest concern right now is feeling like I need to wean DD so I can treat this effectively. It is actually scaring me how hypoglycemic I am... the heart palpitations. Also I believe DD inherited my AF and hypoglycemia and if weaned maybe my whacked out hormones won't affect her and she can get better. Going to look back and see... you all probably have discussed that somewhere in the thread.


----------



## mellowjello

I read back further about people with eye issues (floaters)... has anyone ever had increased intra (or is it inter) cranial pressure? I went to get an eye exam and while my pupils were dialated the dr. told me that one part of the inside of eye was bulging in, indicating intercranial pressure. Prior to that I had a CT scan for the blinding headaches I was having (that I now believe was the hypoglycemia talking) and anyway the CT scan showed normal. I don't know what to make of this.

Also I have jaw issues too. I don't notice too much clenching/grinding now but it used to be very painful. Just popping now.

Is there a test that measures all of your nutrient levels to see where you are deficient?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mellowjello* 
This is totally me. Looking back I can see that I was hypoglycemic since childhood, probably AF too (maybe AF caused). Fainting, binging, feeling weak/trembly, needing to eat often. But of course all my complaints were "in my head."








: Then when I was pregnant with DD I felt super fatigued, super weak, super moody/crying jags, super thirsty, peeing every hour, tested neg. for gest. diabetes, and my OBGYN attributed it all to normal pregnancy stuff. When DD was born she had health issues and I got worse. Went on total elim diet and was miserable. Would binge on what I COULD eat (a lot of rice products like cake, bread, ice cream or potato chips) and had irritability/rages. I knew it was a problem but kept doing it because everyone said there was nothing wrong with me, including DH, so I was sort of in denial and sort of trying to prove it to everyone. With each binge I got worse and successively have had to remove more and more from my diet, to the point now where I eat a very strict diabetic type diet with no room for error. I feel so stupid and angry that I drove my body to this place.

I can't wait to get my results back and start some kind of treatment! My biggest concern right now is feeling like I need to wean DD so I can treat this effectively. It is actually scaring me how hypoglycemic I am... the heart palpitations. Also I believe DD inherited my AF and hypoglycemia and if weaned maybe my whacked out hormones won't affect her and she can get better. Going to look back and see... you all probably have discussed that somewhere in the thread.

This is me too, minus the GD symptoms while preggo.

I've recently found that anything carby or sugary gives me heart palps (stress too.) So like you, I've been moving towards a diabetic diet, low carb, low sugar.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mellowjello* 
I read back further about people with eye issues (floaters)... has anyone ever had increased intra (or is it inter) cranial pressure? I went to get an eye exam and while my pupils were dialated the dr. told me that one part of the inside of eye was bulging in, indicating intercranial pressure. Prior to that I had a CT scan for the blinding headaches I was having (that I now believe was the hypoglycemia talking) and anyway the CT scan showed normal. I don't know what to make of this.

Also I have jaw issues too. I don't notice too much clenching/grinding now but it used to be very painful. Just popping now.

Is there a test that measures all of your nutrient levels to see where you are deficient?

I feel like I have pressure sometimes - and my mind wanders to brain tumors when I let it. I had a CT scan before I had Ds (maybe 4 years ago) at the ER when I had what turned out to be an ocular migraine. I was vomiting every two minutes for 10 hours. I had meningitis when Dd2 was 10 months old (about 5 years ago), and I was sure that I had it again, even had another spinal tap. SO, I know that as of 4 years ago, there was nothing funny going on in my head (at least nothing that showed.







)

But the floater posts that you read were likely mine. I get my eyes tested every year & the time is coming around again, so I'll be sure to ask about any visible pressure.

My chiro freaked me out something fierce many years back when I was lying on my back. She asked if one of my eyes had always protruded more than the other. I had no idea what she was talking about but she told me to waste no time getting it checked out (like, eye doctor that day, or ER.) Needless to say, I about had a heart attack worrying about it.) All of these years later, one eye still bulges out a little more than the other.

What's interesting about this, especially in relation to TMJ, is that anything in our heads being out of alignment can cause symptoms like these.

I took Dd1 for craniosacral therapy (Kinderssage) & her massage therapist & I had a lot of great conversations. I was taking Dd1 to help expand her palate, which worked, to an extent.
Anyway, Ds was born with a crooked head. It's not obvious, but if you feel the back of his head, the one side of it is a bit flattened. In the beginning, I was taking him to an awesome chiro for craniosacral work, but I need to take him to our Kinderssage therapist for some serious work.
Christine, our therapist, said that if something is "tight' or out of alignment (like Ds' head) it can affect the jaw (the alignment of the teeth) which will lead to TMJ. It can also cause pressure within the head which could cause eye bulging, headaches, etc. I wonder if it would fix the floater problem to have some craniosacral work done? It's just so much money.


----------



## MommyHawk

I am about 1.5 weeks from when my cycle ended and I still feel great...but I dread that, in about 1 weeks time, I'll start feeling crappy again, dizzy, needing more salt...and then the week of AF it's horrible. I can't seem to get better until it's all said and done...

anyone else like this? What do you do to keep up the good feeling?


----------



## GoddessKristie

Hi ladies! I thought I'd join in here. I only made it through the first ten and the last two pages of this post. Please forgive me if I ask something that's been covered before.

My story:
I was diagnosed with Hypoglycemia my freshman year of college (2000) and had no idea what that was. I went home and told my family about it and they literally laughed in my face, repeatedly. They had never heard of it before either, and after months of severe harassment and "making fun" of me, they convinced me to let it drop and that it was "all in my head."

I never got better, and went back to a DR 2 years later to see what was wrong with me and he put me on Zoloft for depression. That let me function for a few months, but after a weekend home from school without my pills I had crazy symptoms when I went back on them. So, I stopped and have just been going through the motions ever since.

Lately I've been beating myself up a lot for not being the person I should be (the person I know I am on the inside), and I started paying attention to my body. After months of not being able to get to sleep until 4am no matter how hard I tried I started to notice some things. I have always been cold, but it's gotten progressively worse over the years. My bbt is consistently in the low 96 range.







: I have also always had blood pressure far below normal (which I thought was a really great thing).
In the past few months I've been feeling dizzy and my heart has been racing and I thought at first it was diabetes. So, I was able to get a free glucose meter and have been watching my blood sugar. On Monday I had the presence of mind to check it during a particularly nasty "freakout" and it was LOW! not High! So, of course my immediate thought was, "duh, silly! You have hypoglycemia!"
I started researching the causes of hypoglycemia and that led me to hypothyroidism and low adrenal function. I am 95% sure that I have hypothyroidism, but so many of my symptoms fit adrenal issues that I'm saving up to have it all tested.

Here's something interesting. I have been trying to reset my circadian rhythm with light therapy, and that's working so far. I got a .80 clearance plant bulb and sit under it for 30 minutes within 30 minutes of waking and every day that I've done it I've been able to get to sleep by 10. I can even take naps during the day which used to make getting to bed at night far worse. Most days I couldn't stay awake later if I wanted to! But, it's having a strange side-effect.

I have nightmares! They're terrible nightmares where someone is taking my son, has taken my son, or is breaking into my home to take my son. The past two nights they've happened at the same time and I'm wondering if this might be related to my low blood sugar. I have been having nightmares for some time now off and on, but I don't sleep well enough to dream but maybe once a month. Now that I'm sleeping well every night I'm having them every night. Has anyone else had this problem?

I'm curious how many members here are treating their AF though diet and natural suppliments alone. I have a built-in distrust for pharmaceuticals, but I'm conscerned about screwing up doses if I do it myself. I'm curious if it's possible to heal them through diet and natural suppliments alone. Please share your stories (or reference posts I may have missed?) with me.


----------



## MissyH

I have had nightmares. I did link it to hypoglycemia. Now that my blood sugar is more or less under control I don't have nightmares anymore. I don't wake up at night anymore hardly at all.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Kristie ~ We are treating our AF (and suspected hypothyroidism), and our hypoglycemia naturally. We take a lot of supplements and are incorporating as much of the health-ensuring foods into our diet right now as we can. Are you taking magnesium at all? Something that is helping my sleep a lot is taking about 200 mg of Natural Calm magnesium (it's a powder that you mix with hot water to make a "tea") and anywhere from 1 teaspoon to 3 teaspoons of raw honey *right* before bed. Then I lay in bed with my mala beads and repeat affirmations until I fall asleep (my favorite when was having really high anxiety issues was "I am safe; all is well").

When you are ready, there are some wonderful threads in the Allergy subforum of this forum that you might find helpful (starting with the weekly chat - and don't start from the beginning, just jump in). So many of us on this thread are over there too working on truly healing our bodies and restoring ourselves to the person we know we are inside.







It can be a long journey, and at times lonely because most of the mainstream medical establishment acts like it is all in your head. But, there are many, many here who can related with you.


----------



## tanyalynn

I haven't had nightmares, but I have had waking periods at night (and it was hard to go back to sleep, I think it was my blood sugar dropping), and for me, pretty much every night right before bed, I eat. It's a 2nd dinner, but smaller. Definitely something with protein, and then I feel better when I wake up too.


----------



## Annikate

Goddess Kristie ~ I am a HUGE proponent of light therapy. I have been wanting to mention to all of you some more natural things you can be adding but I have not taken the time to do so.

ALL of this is linked to everything else. If you get enough sunlight during the day (or via full spectrum bulbs or whatever else you use) you will likely feel better all around. It will help increase vitamin D, help detoxify, etc.

Also, let's not forget about conscious breathing. I can bet that every one of use breaths either through our mouths or way up high in the chest. I'd also venture to guess that we all breathe more rapidly than we should.

Try to slow your breathing, do deep belly breathing and it will help the stress levels and detoxify too. Did you know that the breath alone is made to, and theoretically should be able to detoxify 70% of what we take in. That is if we breath the right way. I do really well with it, it makes me feel better and then suddenly I just go on autopilot again with the shallow (adrenal stressing) breathing again until the next time I remember. I'm working on making it an unconscious way of breathing but I know it will take time.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 

I took Dd1 for craniosacral therapy (Kinderssage) & her massage therapist & I had a lot of great conversations. I was taking Dd1 to help expand her palate, which worked, to an extent.

Anyway, Ds was born with a crooked head. It's not obvious, but if you feel the back of his head, the one side of it is a bit flattened.

*Does your son have a dimple at the bottom of his back?* We've been discussing midline issues, asymetry and narrow palates, tongue tie, etc are all related: http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1032289

Pat


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 

Here's something interesting. I have been trying to reset my circadian rhythm with light therapy, and that's working so far. I got a .80 clearance plant bulb and sit under it for 30 minutes within 30 minutes of waking and every day that I've done it I've been able to get to sleep by 10. I can even take naps during the day which used to make getting to bed at night far worse. Most days I couldn't stay awake later if I wanted to! But, it's having a strange side-effect.

I have nightmares! They're terrible nightmares where someone is taking my son, has taken my son, or is breaking into my home to take my son. The past two nights they've happened at the same time and I'm wondering if this might be related to my low blood sugar. I have been having nightmares for some time now off and on, but I don't sleep well enough to dream but maybe once a month. Now that I'm sleeping well every night I'm having them every night. Has anyone else had this problem?

I think you might be producing *too much* dopamine with the light therapy. Check out this video about the detox pathways related to dopamine. And read the thread above about Melatonin. http://heal-thyself.ning.com/video/dopamine-1

There are some dietary things you can do to help to increase your methyl groups and break down some of the dopamine. Post a thread to the site. Shannon is more informed about this than I am. (she has company from out of town this weekend though)

You can learn and read more about the detox pathways here:
http://heal-thyself.ning.com/video/video
http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/c...istForCategory

Pat

Pat


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyHawk* 
I am about 1.5 weeks from when my cycle ended and I still feel great...but I dread that, in about 1 weeks time, I'll start feeling crappy again, dizzy, needing more salt...and then the week of AF it's horrible. I can't seem to get better until it's all said and done...

anyone else like this? What do you do to keep up the good feeling?

Yes! Except I feel crappy during ovulation & leading up to AF. Once I get AF, I'm okay. I think mine's either an estrogen surge or just my body reacting to the estrogen - maybe because of some other imbalance. I never experienced this before until my cycles returned after Ds' birth, last May. With each cycle, the physical symptoms would get worse. I'm hoping they've finaly leveled off. It's kinda scary to wonder what's going to happen next month.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
In the past few months I've been feeling dizzy and my heart has been racing and I thought at first it was diabetes. So, I was able to get a free glucose meter and have been watching my blood sugar. On Monday I had the presence of mind to check it during a particularly nasty "freakout" and it was LOW! not High! So, of course my immediate thought was, "duh, silly! You have hypoglycemia!"

I posted a few pages back about "reactive hypoglycemia" which happens when you eat food (usually carby foods.) Your body produces too much insulin that your cells can't use & your blood sugar actually drops, leading to feelings of hypoglycemia. Do you notice this after eating? It happens within 2 hours of eating a meal. I've found that after I eat a banana with peanut butter (even on a stomach full of fat & protein), I get heart palps & feel slightly dizzy. It's a form of insulin resistance & prediabetes, which scares the heck out of me, but I do believe that if we fix it now, we can reverse it.

My Dad is an insulin dependent Type 2 (who had a major health crisis last fall which ended in bypass surgery). He has an extra glucometer - I just need to buy test strips for it. I've been very curious about what's happening with my blood sugar, especially when I feel crappy. I had a fasting blood draw about a month ago & everything was perfect - but it wouldn't show anything about what's going on *after* I eat, you know?

Have you ever heard of Dr. Bernstein? He's a Type 1 diabetic who figured out how to stabalize his blood sugar with diet. He wrote a book called The Diabetes Solution - I highly recommend it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
*Does your son have a dimple at the bottom of his back?* We've been discussing midline issues, asymetry and narrow palates, tongue tie, etc are all related: http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1032289

Pat

No dimple. But I'll check out the thread.


----------



## mellowjello

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
they convinced me to let it drop and that it was "all in my head."

I'm am so sorry you experienced this. It makes me so mad. They don't mean to be harmful, but really this kind of ignorance is so harmful in so many ways!!!!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
Lately I've been beating myself up a lot for not being the person I should be (the person I know I am on the inside), and I started paying attention to my body. After months of not being able to get to sleep until 4am no matter how hard I tried I started to notice some things. I have always been cold, but it's gotten progressively worse over the years.

I can relate. I always thought of my struggles as character defects/lack of self discipline, and while I don't want to shirk of responsibility for my health that is rightly mine, on the other hand it is making a huge difference in my sense of vitality/energy to address the health issues. Same here with insomnia and feeling cold. Stress makes me even colder.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
I have been trying to reset my circadian rhythm with light therapy, and that's working so far.

Someone I know from another site swears by light therapy for depression (which could be caused by any number of things). She has done a lot of research on it and I want to say she found that it can be as effective as antidepressants.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
I'm curious how many members here are treating their AF though diet and natural suppliments alone.

I have been (without knowing I was AF) for about a year. It's now to the point that diet/supps aren't enough, though. This link has some info re: a natural approach, it's mainly what we all know we should be doing, but get's back to the idea that these things can be SO powerful.

http://www.drpodell.org/reversing.shtml

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I posted a few pages back about "reactive hypoglycemia" which happens when you eat food (usually carby foods.) Your body produces too much insulin that your cells can't use & your blood sugar actually drops, leading to feelings of hypoglycemia. Do you notice this after eating? It happens within 2 hours of eating a meal. I've found that after I eat a banana with peanut butter (even on a stomach full of fat & protein), I get heart palps & feel slightly dizzy. It's a form of insulin resistance & prediabetes, which scares the heck out of me, but I do believe that if we fix it now, we can reverse it.

I found this description, which explains a lot for me about the hypoglycemia/adrenal fatigue connection. That it's not really an insulin problem per se (although this can't be good for you!) but that in response to sugar, the body is overproducing insulin, and to counteract the overproduction of insulin (which would lead to a sugar crash/low), the body dumps a bunch of adrenaline and cortisol into your system to keep you "up." After having to do this over and over, your adrenaline/cortisol become depleted and your body cannot handle the sugar/insulin. Not claiming to fully understand this. To me, this sounds like the hypo could be causing the AF, instead of the other way around (depleting adrenaline/cortisol). But I think in my case I started out with AF issues and that has made my hypo worse, and now they are just in a bad negative feedback loop together (or rather, a positive feedback loop, but with negative consequences, IYKWIM).

http://www.drpodell.org/hypoglycemia_symptoms.shtml

I am scared, too, about "making myself" into, functionally, a diabetic. I am truly hoping it can be reversed. Very interested in anything I can learn about this, so feel free to educate me!!!


----------



## Metasequoia

How does the author of that article know that "too much" insulin is being released or if the cells are insulin resistant? The reaction would be the same either way - hypoglycemia.

It's so confusing - hypoglycemic symptoms are almost identical to adrenaline rush symptoms.

But, I know that adrenal issues, if not treated, can lead to diabetes. I remember the day I put that together & saw my ND - right after my Dad's health crisis. My ND looked me in the eye & told me that I wasn't going to end up diabetic because we were healing my adrenals.

It's frustrating because I know that I was healing, my anxiety disappeared. But then the thing with my Dad this fall really set me back. I was going on adrenaline for a while there & then I crashed. Now I feel like the hypo symptoms after eating certain foods has gotten *much* worse to the point where I notice it multiple times throughout the day.

I have a friend whose husband eats breakfast & won't eat *anything* again until dinnertime & he does really well like this. It's because the fast allows the body not to produce so much insulin, he gets about a 12 hour break between meals. His doctor actually recommended it for his hypoglycemia.

Oh, I'm not hypothyroid, thank goodness.


----------



## mellowjello

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
How does the author of that article know that "too much" insulin is being released or if the cells are insulin resistant?

I have no idea (and I didn't really check out his credentials, either!) I don't know what to think. Searching, searching... Would the 6 hr (ish) hypoglycemia-specific test show this? I have not had that yet.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I have a friend whose husband eats breakfast & won't eat *anything* again until dinnertime & he does really well like this. It's because the fast allows the body not to produce so much insulin, he gets about a 12 hour break between meals.

I can see how that would make sense but I don't think I could survive. For my Neurosciences test I had to fast from 10 pm to 9 am and I thought I was going to die. It took me three days to recover from that!


----------



## moneca

I've seen some connections mentioned lately between adrenal fatifue and premature graying of hair. How many on this thread started graying early? I started at 27.

Thanks!


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca* 
I've seen some connections mentioned lately between adrenal fatifue and premature graying of hair. How many on this thread started graying early? I started at 27.

Thanks!

Well, I'm 35 (and a half) and probably have about 3-4 gray hairs and have only had one or two more (I had a hair dresser pluck two out because he thought I'd want him too ... personally, I'd appreciate being asked first). Dh is graying a bit more than I (he's a year younger than I), but nothing I'd call too premature. He is thinning probably somewhat earlier than he should be. I wonder if some of it has to do with B-vitamin deficiencies? (I'm thinking at least for him, he has very low stomach acid, which probably means biotin deficiency, which is also needed for healthy hair production?)


----------



## tanyalynn

My hair started graying a lot faster when my thyroid went south, I've read of that being connected to zinc (gray hair and thyroid, separately), and zinc is also important for making enough stomach acid. It seems like that could cause it, too, but I don't know what.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
My hair started graying a lot faster when my thyroid went south, I've read of that being connected to zinc (gray hair and thyroid, separately), and zinc is also important for making enough stomach acid. It seems like that could cause it, too, but I don't know what.

Mine went dark almost overnight, then went gray quickly when I went hypo. Before then, I had always been blonde.

It suddenly started going dark and I started coloring it, but I noticed I was going gray shortly afterwards. Now I have lots of gray to cover.

It was strange to me as I've never seen anyone's hair color change that quickly.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca* 
I've seen some connections mentioned lately between adrenal fatifue and premature graying of hair. How many on this thread started graying early? I started at 27.

Thanks!

I had quite a bit of gray by age 18. I'm now 32 & have had a good sized chunk of pure white hair in the front for a while now. I do color it..I used a "dark brown" henna a few weeks ago - got a nice purplish-blackberry color.









I saw a woman yesterday, probably late 50s, who had BEAUTIFUL pure white hair, more golden white than egg white - it was just past her ears & so smooth & shiny looking. This woman looked SO young, healthy, natural & vibrant even with this platinum hair.

Maybe I should just go for that look.









Probably going way OT here, but I feel like I look a LOT older lately - more wrinkles, my skin looks icky, maybe I'm just being more critical. Ds asked me why I had cracks in my eyeballs the other day (veins & burst blood vessels.) I used to get all sorts of compliments on my complexion as a young twenty-something - what happened??!!


----------



## Metasequoia

Oh, and like I said, my zinc is great.


----------



## mellowjello

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
what happened??!!

in my case, a baby!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mellowjello* 
in my case, a baby!

Yea, in my case, three of 'em. If I could just get a week straight of 10 hours of sleep each night, I think I'd feel awesome.


----------



## lucky_mia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca* 
I've seen some connections mentioned lately between adrenal fatifue and premature graying of hair. How many on this thread started graying early? I started at 27.

Thanks!

I started graying in my 20's which was when my hypothryroidism kicked in. I was ~15 years into graying when my Adrenal Insufficiency was diagnosed.


----------



## moneca

I'm wondering if the beet juice test (mentioned earlier in this thread) to determine adequate HCL is a valid test :

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1050298


----------



## gardenmommy

I just waded through 2 thyroid threads. I cannot manage wading through this one all at once, so I'm going to post now, and will work my way through this massive one. Is there a list of AF symptoms. I am wanting to compare the symptoms of hypothyroid and AF. Thanks!


----------



## tanyalynn

http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp

Gardenmommy, this seems to help a lot of people. I had a real mix of the two, probably because my hypo and my AF were both quite noticeable, so it wasn't as illuminating for me. BUT, if you have a nice mix of both, consider both!


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmommy* 
I just waded through 2 thyroid threads. I cannot manage wading through this one all at once, so I'm going to post now, and will work my way through this massive one. Is there a list of AF symptoms. I am wanting to compare the symptoms of hypothyroid and AF. Thanks!

Here are some signs and symptoms. AF and hypothyroid often go hand in hand.


----------



## Annikate

Wow Tanya, that's an interesting link!

Under blood type for AF it says "most are type A" - I am A. I wonder how many of us are?


----------



## MyLittleWonders

I'm AB-; I also, according to that link, have both AF and hypothyroidism. I'm holding off on having my thyroid tested by the ND until we go back for a repeat ASI (which I don't want to do until June at the earlier - we were originally tested in November). For now, I'm just trying to support my thyroid through increased iodine (trying to go with food support through Vitamineral Green in my smoothies; I also have kelp to dry/crumble on salads, and if I need, I have Iodoral).


----------



## lil_miss_understood

I'm B+... so according to that link, I should be healthy as a horse.







(jk)
I've been considering getting some kelp (or another sea veggie) to powder and use instead of (or mixed with) salt on my food for the iodine. I keep hearing that a lot of it's contaminated with arsenic though.







:


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I'm AB-; I also, according to that link, have both AF and hypothyroidism. I'm holding off on having my thyroid tested by the ND until we go back for a repeat ASI (which I don't want to do until June at the earlier - we were originally tested in November). For now, I'm just trying to support my thyroid through increased iodine (trying to go with food support through Vitamineral Green in my smoothies; I also have kelp to dry/crumble on salads, and if I need, I have Iodoral).


I'm AB- as well. haven't had time to check the link but I printed it out to read.


----------



## tanyalynn

whoops, I was totally wrong, so I'm just making my response go away!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Here are some signs and symptoms. AF and hypothyroid often go hand in hand.

I know I read that a couple of years ago, but sheesh, reading it again is stressful! Hurry up & heal your adrenals or you'll develop diabetes & drop dead from cardiac arrest!

Dr. Lam doesn't recommend glandulars either...

Quote:

Adrenal glandular, adrenal extract and licorice root can also be helpful for short term. They are widely promoted, but caution is warranted. These can be stimulatory and thus their use should be judicious. They may give a short term sense of well-being but may lead to dependency issues long term. Stimulating the adrenals is thus not the best long term solution. Providing the adrenals the gentle nutrients it needs to recover on its own is the most effective approach over time.
I feel like I need a treatment overhaul. All this talk about glandulars has me worried. I think I'll email Dr. Cowan & ask why he doesn't recommend them.
I have another ASI here that I need to take, but I've been putting it off because I can't drink caffeine on the day of (I drink a cup of green tea in the morning, bad, I know) & I should also stop the pregnenolone & glandulars for a few days prior. I'm procrastinating.
Once I get the test done, I'm going to see my ND & ask him to help me figure out something more...aggressive. I don't think aggressive & adrenal healing belong in the same sentence, lol.

I also noticed that Dr. Lam mentions that waking between 2-3am & feeling anxious is a sign that stress is excessive - I've been doing this lately. I've always gotten decent sleep but lately it's been crappy. I wake up with heart palps & my mind is racing & I have trouble getting back to sleep. And just when I start to get back to sleep, DS asks for mookie-peas.


----------



## Metasequoia

Oh, and I'm type O. I fit the adrenal column almost to a T - the severe level, being thin & unable to gain weight.









the only symptoms I have that are listed in the thyroid column are thick hair (it's not thin or brittle) & while my nails aren't thick, they aren't thin & brittle like the adrenal column lists - they've actually always been really nice, I can grow them long & they never break - no spots or ridges either. weird.


----------



## MissyH

I know there are lots of weird symptoms w/AF, but I'm wondering about 2 specific ones that I'm having problems with. I think the reason I'm asking is because I need to figure out if I just have AF or if I have something else going on too. I have been getting a lot of muscle twitches and the hamstring in my right leg is super tight. I also get a feeling in that leg of muscle vibration which is not visible. I also feel like I have a slight lack of coordination in my right hand. I had had a lot of pain in it after I started the HC. The twitching can occur anywhere in my body. I'm supping Mg and a whole huge list of other stuff. I'm seeing an ND who has been treating me since last April. I'm on HC which has been a huge help for my dizziness. Anyone esle dizzy a lot? Before HC I was dizzy almost constantly.

Thanks for any feedback. It would be nice to know I'm not the only one w/these symptons. I hope this note is somewhat coherant, I'm running out the door....


----------



## Metasequoia

Missy, I had some REALLY bizarre symptoms when all of this started almost 3 years ago. Tingling in the extremities, burning in the palms of my hands & the soles of my feet. Such awful pain in the bones of my feet that I described it as feeling like the padding in the bottom of my feet had disappeared & I was walking on my bones. Burning skin all over but mostly on the back of my head, neck, shoulders & upper arms. Dizziness was awful at first, but has gotten better - but worse again in the past couple of months. Increase in floaters, SO many spots.

This all started (or became acute) for me right after Ds was born, so it's hard to tell what was weird hormonal postpartum stuff & what was adrenal stuff.

The stuff above has faded, but the chronic muscle pain that set in 2.5 years ago is still here. and the floaters.


----------



## gardenmommy

I looked at both of those lists. I think I fit more of the mixed than either AF or Hypo. I was sort of all over the place.

I spoke with my midwife, who was encouraging. She thought a very good place to start was to just make a complete food chart to see how what I am eating is affecting me, as well as just to note how I am generally feeling throughout the day. She wanted me to check back with her in a couple of weeks. She also thought it might be good to just make sure I am eating plenty of protein, drinking enough water, and to eat every two hours, instead of 3 squares a day.

So, I am going to start there, and keep researching in the meantime. Oh, my midwife also said she would help me find some resources in the community for testing and treatment, if that is what I wanted to pursue.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I know I read that a couple of years ago, but sheesh, reading it again is stressful! Hurry up & heal your adrenals or you'll develop diabetes & drop dead from cardiac arrest!

Dr. Lam doesn't recommend glandulars either...

I feel like I need a treatment overhaul. All this talk about glandulars has me worried. I think I'll email Dr. Cowan & ask why he doesn't recommend them.
I have another ASI here that I need to take, but I've been putting it off because I can't drink caffeine on the day of (I drink a cup of green tea in the morning, bad, I know) & I should also stop the pregnenolone & glandulars for a few days prior. I'm procrastinating.
Once I get the test done, I'm going to see my ND & ask him to help me figure out something more...aggressive. I don't think aggressive & adrenal healing belong in the same sentence, lol.

I also noticed that Dr. Lam mentions that waking between 2-3am & feeling anxious is a sign that stress is excessive - I've been doing this lately. I've always gotten decent sleep but lately it's been crappy. I wake up with heart palps & my mind is racing & I have trouble getting back to sleep. And just when I start to get back to sleep, DS asks for mookie-peas.









I took glandulars for a very short time this summer. They didn't seem to help me at all, but this was after some weird laser therapy treatment designed to "reset" my adrenals. It didn't work. I was sick in bed for like 2 weeks after that!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Oh, and I'm type O. I fit the adrenal column almost to a T - the severe level, being thin & unable to gain weight.









I used to wake btw. 2-3 and not be able to get back to sleep but that is now a thing of the past.







: I know all the supps I'm taking are helping, but I think the phosphatidylcholine is playing a HUGE role in my better sleep.


Me too. The not being able to gain weight part. Not that I want to gain weight now-- I don't, but I have historically always had a hard time doing so. Now that I think of it, I think my adrenals have been messed up for a very long time.

Oh, and MLW - I wanted to tell you that I think the reason why I am feeling SO much better is in large part due to the thyroid supp I'm taking. Can you get in sooner to have that evaluated?


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I took glandulars for a very short time this summer. They didn't seem to help me at all, but this was after some weird laser therapy treatment designed to "reset" my adrenals. It didn't work. I was sick in bed for like 2 weeks after that!

Me too. The not being able to gain weight part. Not that I want to gain weight now-- I don't, but I have historically always had a hard time doing so. Now that I think of it, I think my adrenals have been messed up for a very long time.

Oh, and MLW - I wanted to tell you that I think the reason why I am feeling SO much better is in large part due to the thyroid supp I'm taking. Can you get in sooner to have that evaluated?

I can; she's very available and I could always just call her and have a thyroid test put aside for me so I just pick it up. Honestly, it's really more the money. But, I probably would feel better. Hmm ... I might call and see how much the test costs and go from there.


----------



## chlobo

Well I'm definitely more "Adrenal fatigue" than thyroid issue although I do have a few key things for thyroid as well. However, at the moment I'm not having any trouble losing weight. In fact I gained a few pounds over the last 2 months & it looks like its here to stay. Mostly around the middle.

I'm taking glandulars. What else is there? I feel like I'm too far gone for just a diet change.


----------



## gardenmommy

I felt a lot better after having a chiro adjustment right before Christmas. Not sure why that would make such a difference, but that was the best I've felt in a looong time. Oh, and I am AB+.


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 

Oh, and MLW - I wanted to tell you that I think the reason why I am feeling SO much better is in large part due to the thyroid supp I'm taking. Can you get in sooner to have that evaluated?

What supplement are you taking?


----------



## MissyH

Metasequoia thanks for your response. Somehow its comforting to hear what other people's symptoms are, especially if they are the same or similar. I have asked my ND about some of my symptoms and he didnt' think that some of them were even from AF, but didn't have another explanation either.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I can; she's very available and I could always just call her and have a thyroid test put aside for me so I just pick it up. Honestly, it's really more the money. But, I probably would feel better. Hmm ... I might call and see how much the test costs and go from there.

It's just a blood draw. I think they told me last time that w/out my insurance it would have been like $300. I thought that was a lot for one tiny blood test.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 

I'm taking glandulars. What else is there? I feel like I'm too far gone for just a diet change.

This is what I take. It's funny too b/c I *thought* I was supposed to take 1 a day. Then several weeks after I started taking them (and started feeling better) I saw that my ND had said to take 2 a day. On the bottle it says 2. Maybe I'll start taking 2 tomorrow and see what that does.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmommy* 
I felt a lot better after having a chiro adjustment right before Christmas. Not sure why that would make such a difference, but that was the best I've felt in a looong time. Oh, and I am AB+.

Body work opens up the energy meridians and keeps that energy from staying stuck. I am due for an adjustment too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissyH* 
Metasequoia thanks for your response. Somehow its comforting to hear what other people's symptoms are, especially if they are the same or similar. I have asked my ND about some of my symptoms and he didnt' think that some of them were even from AF, but didn't have another explanation either.

See, that's the tricky thing about AF. (And I keep reading that as Aunt Flo







) is that the symptoms kind of creep up and then WHAMO! you're in full fledged adrenal fatigue and/or hypothyroidism before it's addressed.


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
This is what I take. It's funny too b/c I *thought* I was supposed to take 1 a day. Then several weeks after I started taking them (and started feeling better) I saw that my ND had said to take 2 a day. On the bottle it says 2. Maybe I'll start taking 2 tomorrow and see what that does.
.

This was rxed by your ND? And it helps? Something to think about.


----------



## moneca

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I know I read that a couple of years ago, but sheesh, reading it again is stressful! Hurry up & heal your adrenals or you'll develop diabetes & drop dead from cardiac arrest!

Dr. Lam doesn't recommend glandulars either...

I feel like I need a treatment overhaul. All this talk about glandulars has me worried. I think I'll email Dr. Cowan & ask why he doesn't recommend them.

I just tried to email him last week, but I couldn't get it to go through. I'd love to consult with him, but it's $250 which I can't do right now. I loaned his book to a friend and should be getting it back soon. Do you want me to copy the chapter on adrenal issues and mail it to you?


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca* 
I just tried to email him last week, but I couldn't get it to go through. I'd love to consult with him, but it's $250 which I can't do right now. I loaned his book to a friend and should be getting it back soon. Do you want me to copy the chapter on adrenal issues and mail it to you?

Gosh. I'd love to read that.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I took glandulars for a very short time this summer. They didn't seem to help me at all, but this was after some weird laser therapy treatment designed to "reset" my adrenals. It didn't work. I was sick in bed for like 2 weeks after that!

Me too. The not being able to gain weight part. Not that I want to gain weight now-- I don't, but I have historically always had a hard time doing so. Now that I think of it, I think my adrenals have been messed up for a very long time.

Oh, and MLW - I wanted to tell you that I think the reason why I am feeling SO much better is in large part due to the thyroid supp I'm taking. Can you get in sooner to have that evaluated?

Annikate - you quoted somebody besides me, but I can't figure out who!









I didn't say this:

Quote:

I used to wake btw. 2-3 and not be able to get back to sleep but that is now a thing of the past.







: I know all the supps I'm taking are helping, but I think the phosphatidylcholine is playing a HUGE role in my better sleep.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissyH* 
Metasequoia thanks for your response. Somehow its comforting to hear what other people's symptoms are, especially if they are the same or similar. I have asked my ND about some of my symptoms and he didnt' think that some of them were even from AF, but didn't have another explanation either.

There's still SO much unknown. A lot of my symptoms fit the Lyme symptom list & the menopause symptom list. The latter made a lot of sense because it's a time when hormone production is slowing down (from the ovaries) & it all falls to the adrenals.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca* 
I just tried to email him last week, but I couldn't get it to go through. I'd love to consult with him, but it's $250 which I can't do right now. I loaned his book to a friend and should be getting it back soon. Do you want me to copy the chapter on adrenal issues and mail it to you?

I have it.







I LOVE it, it all makes so much sense. But TYVM for the kind offer.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Gosh. I'd love to read that.

A lot of Cowan's stuff is online, either on his site or the WAPF site - let me see what I can find...

It's definitely a book worth buying & not terribly expensive.


----------



## gardenmommy

What is this book?

I ordered two books from the library. I think they will be in by the end of the week. I am thinking that my symptoms are pretty mild, and hoping since that is the case, maybe I will be able to heal fairly easily. Or maybe that is wishful thinking!


----------



## Annikate

Metasaquoia -







*I* said that! I wonder why it came up as being quoted by you?









chlobo - I realized I didn't answer your question about what thyroid supp I'm taking. It's Nature Thyroid. Though I have heard that Armour Thyroid is better.


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Metasaquoia -







*I* said that! I wonder why it came up as being quoted by you?









chlobo - I realized I didn't answer your question about what thyroid supp I'm taking. It's Nature Thyroid. Though I have heard that Armour Thyroid is better.

What is in them? I starteed taking Iordoral but stopped. I think it made me loopy.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmommy* 
What is this book?

I ordered two books from the library. I think they will be in by the end of the week. I am thinking that my symptoms are pretty mild, and hoping since that is the case, maybe I will be able to heal fairly easily. Or maybe that is wishful thinking!

The Fourfold Path to Healing - awesome book.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Metasaquoia -







*I* said that! I wonder why it came up as being quoted by you?









No wonder I couldn't find the quote!







Darn brain-fog, eh?


----------



## mellowjello

I am still very much following this AF thread but most of my questions right now are related to my hypoglycemia and wondering if anyone knows of a targeted thread. I couldn't find one, only gestational diabetes. If not, should I start one?

Metasequoia, thank you so much for putting out the idea again about how your brother in law (I think that is the relationship?) manages his hypoglycemia by eating 2 meals 12 hours apart. I don't think DD and I can go that long but I do believe we were eating too often (every 2 hrs) and were in a cycle of insulin resistance. I have been stretching it out a bit, first 3 hrs, now I can go almost 4 with no symptoms and feeling better. Also started taking a blood sugar regulation supplement. Noticed increased thirst, I think this is a good sign? Maybe my body was confusing hunger and thirst? But still very concerned re: chest pains and heart palps. Having health anxiety!!!! Both my grandmothers died in their 40-50s, one from heart attack.


----------



## Metasequoia

mellojello,

I'm unaware of a specific hypoglycemia thread.

He's not my BIL, just a wise friend's very wise husband. It works beautifully for him.

I really feel it when I eat something carb-heavy, I feel dizzy all day long, especially when I stand up from sitting or if I turn around too quickly. It's pretty scary.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
What is in them? I starteed taking Iordoral but stopped. I think it made me loopy.

I think those are actual thyroid hormone supplements, am I wrong there (anyone?)?

The Iodoral really can mobilize stuff, it's funny, from a link from sonnambula, some of the people who have halogen detox problems from the iodine have them because they've been eating a healthy, homemade diet. If (like me) you probably consumed a lot of halogens, but also ate a diet high in processed foods (and thus high, maybe crazy high, in sodium) you may not have stored your halogens, the sodium would help your body keep up. But people with some halogen exposures, but who cook real food (which may have reasonable amounts of salt, but not like processed food)--they can have a hard time supp-ing iodine. I decided to be happy that for once my sloth and ignorance worked for me. And that's separate from the metal issue--I'm not sure either copper or lead would really interact with iodine, so maybe you can assume you've got a few too many halogens? Not sure how many other options there are, these are the only two I've heard of for iodine.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I think those are actual thyroid hormone supplements, am I wrong there (anyone?)?

Yes, they are. I was on them until about a month ago when I switched to Armour.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
The Iodoral really can mobilize stuff, it's funny, from a link from sonnambula, some of the people who have halogen detox problems from the iodine have them because they've been eating a healthy, homemade diet. If (like me) you probably consumed a lot of halogens, but also ate a diet high in processed foods (and thus high, maybe crazy high, in sodium) you may not have stored your halogens, the sodium would help your body keep up. But people with some halogen exposures, but who cook real food (which may have reasonable amounts of salt, but not like processed food)--they can have a hard time supp-ing iodine. I decided to be happy that for once my sloth and ignorance worked for me. And that's separate from the metal issue--I'm not sure either copper or lead would really interact with iodine, so maybe you can assume you've got a few too many halogens? Not sure how many other options there are, these are the only two I've heard of for iodine.

Doh.
Why did I have to be just healthy enough to cause myself more problems?


----------



## ajillfisch

I discovered this thread several months ago when I came across AF secondary to googling "sugar cravings".

I have had severe irritability since the birth of my second child 19 months ago (tandem nursing him and his 4 yo, 55 lb brother, almost EBF (both!)including nights). However I think I have probably had adrenal issues all my life. My family is full of sensitivities and everyone but me is on thyroid meds.

About 12 years ago I went on birth control pills and developed chronic night waking as well as immediately aging - previously everyone took my sister (11 years younger) for my twin. After about a year on the pill everyone thought I was her mother. Too bad I didn't realize why, I continued the pill for 7 more years.

Prior to learning of AF I started digestive enzymes (I thought it was yeast) and at first they helped tremendously. Why I have no idea. However, though I can't stop them or I'm a monster, they don't help me any more like they did at first.

My ASI showed "maladapted phase 4", so on my way to low but not there yet. I did start treatment with Clymer/Dr. Neville but it has gone pretty slowly due to not tolerating the supplements well.

Forgive me if this is in this thread somewhere, I haven't read all of it but the pregnenolone seemed to decrease my milk supply. Has anyone else noted this? Three days after stopping it my milk returned, along with the insomnia! Also the pregnenolone seemed to help my skin, people were commenting how well I looked, that also stopped. So I don't know if this is some hormonal effect.

Metasequoia - are you still with Dr. Neville?

Thanks!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ajillfisch* 
My ASI showed "maladapted phase 4", so on my way to low but not there yet. I did start treatment with Clymer/Dr. Neville but it has gone pretty slowly due to not tolerating the supplements well.

Forgive me if this is in this thread somewhere, I haven't read all of it but the pregnenolone seemed to decrease my milk supply. Has anyone else noted this? Three days after stopping it my milk returned, along with the insomnia! Also the pregnenolone seemed to help my skin, people were commenting how well I looked, that also stopped. So I don't know if this is some hormonal effect.

Metasequoia - are you still with Dr. Neville?

Thanks!

Yep, I'm still seeing Dr. Neville. He sent me home with another ASI test kit & I've been procrastinating because I can't have my cup of green tea the morning I do the test, and ideally, I should lay off the pregnenolone & glandulars for a few days prior.

I've been taking pregnenolone for 2 years now, all the while nursing Ds (who will be 3 next week!!) & haven't noticed any reduction in milk supply (& neither has Ds.







) The only time I've ever noticed a reduction in my supply, ever, was when I was taking Benadryl for itching - that stuff dried it up quickly & as soon as I stopped taking it, it came back & I can feel let down again (sometimes.)

Pregnenolone, like DHEA, is known as the "youth hormone" because as we age, our DHEA levels naturally drop - it's just that because we're adrenally-compromised (







), we notice more rapid aging like memory loss, dry, wrinkled skin, loss of sex-drive, etc. because we have low DHEA.

When I go off the pregnenolone, I can't form a coherent thought let alone form a sentence.








I never noticed that my skin looked "older" until recently, maybe this past winter. Actually, I've been meaning to post somewhere here about natural skin/wrinkle care! My friend said she uses 100% shea butter (which smells oddly like cigarette ashes.)


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Any way to tell if pregnenolone would be a good choice for me? My ND put me on DHEA back in November when our ASI results came back. Honestly (and I think I've posted this here before), it never "felt" right intuitively, but I went with what she said. I think it really messed with my cycles and was putting me towards estrogen-dominance (I don't think it was doing what it was supposed to be doing and I was only taking 5mg). I stopped taking it back in the beginning of February (even after consulting with her and my doctor of Oriental medicine, both of whom thought the DHEA was good for me). Since then, I have had no mid-cycle spotting nor spotting after intimacy. YAY! But, I am wondering if I should be supp'ing with pregnenolone. I don't necessarily want to ask my ND yet because she doesn't know I stopped the DHEA.


----------



## nichole

Oh man, my blood sugar is driving me nuts. I feel like having to have snacks every 2 hours is ruling my life. I'm going to get a cinnamon supplement this weekend. I've tried just eating cinnamon, but I don't think I'm eating enough to help.

If that doesn't work, I guess I will take a diabetes test. I've passed one before. I can't imagine taking it again though. I'm afraid I'll get dizzy if I fast.

I've always been hungry all the time. Even as a child it seemed like school lunch was too long after breakfast. I haven't been able to go to the gym b/c my son broke his arm, so I'm nervous to put him in the child care there in case he gets too rough and reinjures it. So even though I'm thin, a lot of my muscle has turned to fat. How I managed to work out and have time to eat and take care of my kids, I'm not sure. I find meal times to be really difficult, b/c I have to get my boys settled with something to eat first, and then they want something else before I'm even done eating. And then I sit down to finish eating and they get bored. Last night my five year old dumped a cup of water on the table on purpose during dinner, and it was just soooo hard to be patient.


----------



## ajillfisch

I forgot to say that much, if not all, of my irritability is due to TONS of food sensitivities. Last year when my stress was at its peak I was rapidly becoming allergic to seemingly everything - even organic skin creams. With the enzymes plus somewhat less stress it is a bit better, but still very problematic.

Also, my kids (unfortunately) are terribly affected by what I'm going through. My four-year-old particularly has suffered a lot from food and other sensitivities, while the baby, who was EC'd, would pee like crazy minutes after I ate something I shouldn't.

Have others experienced this? I don't remember seeing it mentioned much.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Any way to tell if pregnenolone would be a good choice for me?

It seems odd to me (but I'm no expert) that DHEA would lead to estrogen dominance since it tends to increase male hormones (leading to hairiness, aggression, etc.)

Pregnenolone is above DHEA, so perhaps your body would convert (or use) it in a different way? I've never noticed any negative side affects from it, but I have so many weird, annoying symptoms, that I don't know what is caused by what anymore.

I do know that like the pp said above, I have a lot of food issues that weren't there before & that topical creams like body lotions burn my skin now & make it red. I think it's just a common thing that goes along with this adrenal stuff - after all, Cowan lists allergies & asthma as being caused by weakened adrenals.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Oh man, my blood sugar is driving me nuts. I feel like having to have snacks every 2 hours is ruling my life. I'm going to get a cinnamon supplement this weekend. I've tried just eating cinnamon, but I don't think I'm eating enough to help.

If that doesn't work, I guess I will take a diabetes test. I've passed one before. I can't imagine taking it again though. I'm afraid I'll get dizzy if I fast.

I've always been hungry all the time. Even as a child it seemed like school lunch was too long after breakfast. I haven't been able to go to the gym b/c my son broke his arm, so I'm nervous to put him in the child care there in case he gets too rough and reinjures it. So even though I'm thin, a lot of my muscle has turned to fat. How I managed to work out and have time to eat and take care of my kids, I'm not sure. I find meal times to be really difficult, b/c I have to get my boys settled with something to eat first, and then they want something else before I'm even done eating. And then I sit down to finish eating and they get bored. Last night my five year old dumped a cup of water on the table on purpose during dinner, and it was just soooo hard to be patient.

Ugh. What if you tried the fasting thing? It sounded totally crazy to me too when I first heard about it but after reading about reactive hypoglycemia, it makes much more sense.

I did the 12 hour fasting insulin test & it nearly killed me. I blacked out in the parking lot & fell into my car. Thank goddess I had food in the car so that once I was able to see, I could get to it & slowly recover.

Since then (which was only a couple of months ago), I've read a lot about this & have found that the test was pretty useless since my insulin level wouldn't be high since I hadn't eaten! Ideally, we'd fast, get a blood draw, eat a REAL, balanced meal complete with carbs & then have more blood drawn, maybe 3 times, hours apart. This would show a more realistic picture of what my insulin & glucose levels would be like after eating.

My Dad has 2 glucometers & I am going to take one & start using it throughout the day, particularly when I feel really dizzy. (I've been saying this for MONTHS & I just need to DO it!)

This is how Bernstein figured out that carbs are what caused the major blood sugar fluctuations & that if he stuck with fats & protein, his blood sugar remained stable & he suffered none of the common complications of diabetes, even now as an older man.

My biggest issue is STRESS. Exdp is SUCH a jerk, using the kids as pawns, threatening to take them, ALL kinds of crapola that just causes a massive adrenaline rush from my poor, half-dead adrenals. I keep reading how big of a player stress is in diabetes, adrenal fatigue, etc & I simply must figure something out.

Last night I had a hot cup of Zhena's lavender rooibos tea & it was really calming (& yummy!) But I need more than a hot cup of tea - I need to figure out how to breathe deeply & relax, look at the bigger picture, remind myself that we're just specks in the Universe...


----------



## kjbrown92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
http://www.drrind.com/scorecardmatrix.asp

Gardenmommy, this seems to help a lot of people. I had a real mix of the two, probably because my hypo and my AF were both quite noticeable, so it wasn't as illuminating for me. BUT, if you have a nice mix of both, consider both!

I was totally adrenal on this one. Huh.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Here are some signs and symptoms. AF and hypothyroid often go hand in hand.

And I had 12/16 symptoms in this one.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Under blood type for AF it says "most are type A" - I am A. I wonder how many of us are?

I'm a A (neg) too.

The ND diagnosed me with AF last spring (saliva test) and I didn't take the supps she recommended because I didn't believe her. I started taking an Adrenal Support formula last week, but no improvements so far. I have thyroid nodules and normal thyroid numbers and the doctor put me on thyroid meds (low dose) just to see if it would do anything for me. It didn't so she said it wasn't my thyroid. I've only read the last two pages since going on here many moons ago. I'll have to catch up now that I'm seeing the light.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
- I need to figure out how to breathe deeply & relax, look at the bigger picture, remind myself that we're just specks in the Universe...

Yes! Deep breathing can change so MANY things. It sounds so simple (and it is once you learn how to breathe properly) but it can alleviate so many things (from physiological things to psychological to emotional to spiritual.)

Can you tell I'm taking an advanced conscious breathing course right now?









Seriously, you should all do it for at least 10 minutes twice a day. Sit or lie down and feel your lower abdomen rise as you inhale. Let the outbreath flow without holding it in and release as much breath as you can without it feeling unnatural or uncomfortable. Then pause just a moment and inhale deeply again through the nose. Do it for about 12-15 - even 20 times. I promise you'll notice a difference in your perception.


----------



## tanyalynn

Annikate, it's interesting that you bring this up, because it's come up for me and the kids recently, but from the other side--our stress & unhappiness levels dropped abruptly, and my HCP said that one significant thing that's happening is that when you're relaxed, you breathe more deeply, and your liver functions better (I've seen physical things happening with the kids, behavioral too). It's way cool that these things can happen from both sides--the cause and effect wrap back on each other, cycle around.


----------



## Metasequoia

It's SO HARD though! My awesome yoga teacher-friend even helped me privately to do this & it's just so hard.

Advanced conscious breathing course, eh? Maybe I need to find a deep-breathing boot camp....

Tanya, I've tried working with Dd1 too, but if *I* can't do it, I don't know how to show her. We need a deep-breathing *family* boot camp.


----------



## Fi'sMom

Glad I found this thread! I just found out that I have unbelievably high cortisol levels, although it appears that I am hopefully still just in stage 1 of 3 with af. I muscle-tested well for pregnonolone - 30 mg. - so I'm going to start taking that tomorrow. I also started taking B's, C, B5, PS, zinc and relora. I've been underweight for a few months now, but just gained 4 lbs. in the last 2 weeks. I don't know if it's from eating a bit more, from the supplements regulating my hormones a bit, or from the high cortisol. I don't mind gaining weight if it's from eating more, but if it's due to a hormone inbalance, that just sucks. Anyway, as far as the cortisol, weight gain, pregnonolone, etc. goes.... any thoughts? Oh yeah, I've also struggled on and off with anorexia my entire life, and the birth of my 11 month old triggered a regression the past several months... so I'm feeling like the rope in a tug-n-war between God and the enemy. So anyway, HI!







I'm feeling like a hormonal mess!


----------



## tanyalynn

Hey, I've got a question about healing. I was looking again at the graphs for the 7 stages, and it looks like from stage 5 to stage 4 (in the getting better direction), extra cortisol in the evening gets more intense. Do people have a harder time getting to sleep at night for a while as they're getting better?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Hey, I've got a question about healing. I was looking again at the graphs for the 7 stages, and it looks like from stage 5 to stage 4 (in the getting better direction), extra cortisol in the evening gets more intense. Do people have a harder time getting to sleep at night for a while as they're getting better?

Is it during the 10-11pm time frame? I've never had trouble falling to sleep, but I've been waking between 3-4am & having trouble getting back to sleep but I think this is a reaction to "severe stress" according to one of the recent articles posted (Dr. Lam's, maybe?)

I have my cortisol test in the cupboard, but not enough money to take it ATM.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Is it during the 10-11pm time frame? I've never had trouble falling to sleep, but I've been waking between 3-4am & having trouble getting back to sleep but I think this is a reaction to "severe stress" according to one of the recent articles posted (Dr. Lam's, maybe?)

I have my cortisol test in the cupboard, but not enough money to take it ATM.

I'm not experiencing a change in the timeframe, just in the amount of energy I have late in the evening which is translating into me staying up later (when I don't have the self-control to get to bed before I feel like this). For a while I've been assuming that I'm just getting lazier with even less self-control, to let myself stay up so late, then I stepped back and went wait, maybe I'm _feeling_ different, and why would that be?

For me, the middle of the night waking has always (I assume) been blood sugar changes, and eating right before bed (which I still do 90% of the time) seems to work well for. But it was worse before, I think I still need to snack at bedtime, but it's less required--I'm sorry you've got such stress going on.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
It's SO HARD though! My awesome yoga teacher-friend even helped me privately to do this & it's just so hard.

Advanced conscious breathing course, eh? Maybe I need to find a deep-breathing boot camp....

Tanya, I've tried working with Dd1 too, but if *I* can't do it, I don't know how to show her. We need a deep-breathing *family* boot camp.

Yes, deep breathing boot camp.







I am constantly saying to my dds, 'okay, now everyone take a deeeeeep breath!"

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Hey, I've got a question about healing. I was looking again at the graphs for the 7 stages, and it looks like from stage 5 to stage 4 (in the getting better direction), extra cortisol in the evening gets more intense. Do people have a harder time getting to sleep at night for a while as they're getting better?

I feel like I am getting better - at least I am feeling better! - and I have not had any trouble getting to sleep *unless* I stay up too late - like 11:00 or after. It's really hard getting to sleep by 10:00 though - esp. now w/daylight savings.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Is it during the 10-11pm time frame? I've never had trouble falling to sleep, but I've been waking between 3-4am & having trouble getting back to sleep but I think this is a reaction to "severe stress" according to one of the recent articles posted (Dr. Lam's, maybe?)

I have my cortisol test in the cupboard, but not enough money to take it ATM.

I used to wake at this time too. Looking back I did this for years. I'd get up, wander around the house, eat a banana (which I found out from you guys meant that my blood sugar levels were nutty). I was crazy. I *hated* being awake, yet I couldn't do anything about it.

I swear what helps me the most with this is phosphatidylcholine at bedtime. It seems that the couple of times I've forgotten to take it, I woke btw. 3 and 4 just like I used to.


----------



## neveryoumindthere

I read somewhere on the boards,that waking around 3/4am has to do with liver toxicity. I'd have to search for it, but it's something to consider.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
I read somewhere on the boards,that waking around 3/4am has to do with liver toxicity. I'd have to search for it, but it's something to consider.

I would not be surprised about this. I think most of us could use some liver support. I haven't started it yet, but have been thinking a lot about adding taurine or milk thistle to my list of supps. Maybe I'll do that today.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I would not be surprised about this. I think most of us could use some liver support. I haven't started it yet, but have been thinking a lot about adding taurine or milk thistle to my list of supps. Maybe I'll do that today.

Interesting that taurine came up, do you have a brand you recommend? Chlobo over in Allergies is looking for taurine right now and a couple other liver support supps and I only know one brand (and it's just a milk thistle product).

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...1050281&page=5

Sorry to impose, I hit the limit of what I know (didn't take long







).


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Interesting that taurine came up, do you have a brand you recommend? Chlobo over in Allergies is looking for taurine right now and a couple other liver support supps and I only know one brand (and it's just a milk thistle product).

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...1050281&page=5

Sorry to impose, I hit the limit of what I know (didn't take long







).

Yes, I have some from Kirkman labs. I used to give it to dd.


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I would not be surprised about this. I think most of us could use some liver support. I haven't started it yet, but have been thinking a lot about adding taurine or milk thistle to my list of supps. Maybe I'll do that today.

So for liver support I have Vit C, milk thistle and taurine? Are there other ones that are "biggies" to be sure to include?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Interesting that taurine came up, do you have a brand you recommend? Chlobo over in Allergies is looking for taurine right now and a couple other liver support supps and I only know one brand (and it's just a milk thistle product).

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...1050281&page=5

*Thanks for the plug*

Sorry to impose, I hit the limit of what I know (didn't take long







).


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Hey, I've got a question about healing. I was looking again at the graphs for the 7 stages, and it looks like from stage 5 to stage 4 (in the getting better direction), extra cortisol in the evening gets more intense. Do people have a harder time getting to sleep at night for a while as they're getting better?

Sorry I missed this, where is this graph?

Thanks, Pat


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 

I swear what helps me the most with this is phosphatidylcholine at bedtime. It seems that the couple of times I've forgotten to take it, I woke btw. 3 and 4 just like I used to.

*Phosphatidylcholine*- Phosphatidylcholine (derived from lecithin), a primary dietary source of choline.

• Although choline can be manufactured in humans from either methionine or serine, it has recently been designated an essential nutrient. *It has been shown to be present in many foods.* Phosphatidylcholine is abundant in plant and animal foods.

• Choline is required for the proper metabolism of fats; it facilitates the movement of fats in and out of cells.

• Choline is essential in the synthesis of acetylcholine.

*Food sources*

• As free choline in vegetables (especially cauliflower and lettuce), whole grains, liver, and soy, grains, wheat germ, brewers yeast, and fish, muscle and organ meats.

• As lecithin (containing 10-20% phosphatidylcholine) in grains, legumes, meat and egg yolks, peanuts, liver, soybeans, pork.

Vitamin C and calcium help increase the effectiveness of Phosphatidyl Choline.

http://www.woodmed.com/Phos%20Choline.htm
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/82/1/111
http://www.diet-and-health.net/Suppl...ylCholine.html
http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/t...4160Comment485

Pat, the whole foods foundation.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I would not be surprised about this. I think most of us could use some liver support. I haven't started it yet, but have been thinking a lot about adding taurine or milk thistle to my list of supps. Maybe I'll do that today.

*taurine*- is a key ingredient of bile, which in turn is needed for fat digestion, absorption of fat-soluble vitamins as well as the control of cholesterol serum levels in the body.

Taurine is mostly found in meat and fish, and the adult body can manufacture it. Vegans who consume no eggs or dairy products ingest virtually no taurine through their diets, but normally have enough since the body can manufacture the requirements. Vitamin B6 is required by the body to synthesize this nutrient from other nutrients.

It is thought to be helpful with anxiety, hyperactivity, poor brain function and epilepsy as well as hydrating the brain.

http://www.anyvitamins.com/taurine-info.htm

Pat,








http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/t...4160Comment483


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I feel like I am getting better - at least I am feeling better! - and I have not had any trouble getting to sleep *unless* I stay up too late - like 11:00 or after. It's really hard getting to sleep by 10:00 though - esp. now w/daylight savings.

I've been really good about going to bed by 8pm lately! I figure if I do this, it won't matter if I wake up for an hour or so.









But, I've noticed some positive changes. I feel like I get a REALLY awesome chunk of deep sleep from somewhere between 8-9pm through whenever I wake - sometimes it's around 3-4am & sometimes it's not until 6am. Even Ds has been sleeping better, today he didn't even ask for "mookie-peas" until 7:30am! And I don't think I woke until around 6:30am, so that there's some darned good sleep!









We had no trouble with the time change because it happened to be such a beautiful day that we all played hard & spent a lot of time outside in the sun. So we went to bed at 8pm (which was really like 7pm.) I think this has something to do with Ds sleeping until morning too.

Re: Detoxing the liver - I was under the impression that it wasn't good to detox while nursing? I've been thinking of doing a liver detox for 3 years now, but have been nursing Ds all along, so I haven't.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Re: Detoxing the liver - I was under the impression that it wasn't good to detox while nursing? I've been thinking of doing a liver detox for 3 years now, but have been nursing Ds all along, so I haven't.

Just doing something or taking a product that's meant to detox (mobilize) toxins yes, that wouldn't be good, but there are things we can do to help support our bodies in getting rid of what's already circulating, so that would actually improve breastmilk quality (more in the heavily toxic among us than the less toxic







).

eta--the cool discussions we've been having in Allergies are about supporting the detoxification pathways in the body (various chemical processed the liver does to get junk out) to help your body work more effectively (not trying to mobilize new toxins).


----------



## Periwinkle

Last few days I'm a little thrown for a loop. My whole caffeine-free experiment has been a whopping success (caff-free for 6-8 weeks or something now) and my sleep had been so great... easy to fall asleep and stay asleep. But the last few days I'm getting that late evening jittery feeling and middle of the night wake-ups again.







Last night I tossed and turned - sleeping a bit then waking SUDDENLY feeling worried and tense (dh was away last night too so every little creak I'm wide awake thinking it's a burglar or something.. sigh) until 2:30am then woke for the day at 6:30, which is like 5:30 pre-DST and I *never* wake up that early. Groan. My goal today is lots of sunshine and forcing myself to be in bed by 10pm.

Does anyone know what causes sudden bouts of this kind of thing? I'll have this for a few days then all will be well again for a month, then another bout. I feel like it's probaby not blood sugar etc. since otherwise I'd have it more often.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

For some reason, I didn't see all the new posts yesterday. It must have been in my User CP and I forgot to check? Anyway ... about sleep.

We've been doing phosphatydilSerine with honey before bed and I think it's improving the quality of sleep. But, I've had trouble the last two nights falling asleep. I think it's because I've been up too late (Sunday we were at my ILs and did not get home until 11:30pm (!) and we went straight to bed; last night dh and I stayed up and watched a silly movie and didn't get to bed again until 11:30). But each of the two nights it feels like I have yet to "unwind".

In terms of the liver, I've stared doing milk thistle tea most every day.


----------



## kjbrown92

This time when I re-ordered Travacor (I just CANNOT sleep without it), I also ordered Adrenacor. It says to take 1-3 capsules once or twice daily. Does anyone know if you're supposed to slowly increase, and/or if it keeps you awake? I tried two different Adrenal ones already (the first one the ND gave me didn't do anything and neither did the other). Since I think the Travacor works really well, I'm trying the Adrenacor made by the same company.


----------



## Theloose

I've been neglecting this thread









Today I came across an article saying that cortisol production responds to serotonin levels. It was cells in a dish, so limited applicability to real life, but low serotonin equaled low cortisol output. So anyone here dealing with depression on top of adrenal fatigue







might have more adrenal success by working on their serotonin first.

My favorite biochem theoretical way to do that is to eat lots of folate (as opposed to folic acid in supps) - I shoot for ~800mcg/day, and limit total protein consumption to the RDA. And if you want to get fancy, B6 (no more than 100mg, less - I like 50mg - may be better) and vitamin C (go to town, bowel tolerance would be great) could also help a bit.

The folate should maximize BH4 production (required to make serotonin) and ammonia generated in breaking down protein uses up the BH4. So avoiding excess protein would save the BH4 for other uses. Vitamin C helps recycle BH4, and B6 levels are somewhat associated with serotonin levels.


----------



## Metasequoia

This brings me back to my question about SSRIs taking a load off he adrenals....I know we decided that it was just a band-aid approach (my ND agreed, but he did think that using them for a short period of time could give the adrenals a much-needed break.)

But, it makes sense, chemically. What about supping with serotonin, can you do that? People take melatonin to help with sleep, right? I think that's what I'm thinking of...not serotonin.

Does 5HTP help with serotonin? I don't think that's safe for bfing, right?


----------



## bigknitwit

I've been lurking on this thread on and off, and I think I can finally contribute something.

Serotonin levels can be increased with the use of 5HTP. 5HTP is a precurser to serotonin. Serotonin turns into melatonin as the day progresses into the evening, which helps induce sleep. Alternatively tryptophan can also be used in this way to increase serotonin. I had a lot of success dealing with my insomnia issues 2 years ago by supplementing 5HTP. Dh (very skeptical who also has low serotonin issues) had his levels tested (saliva) before supping, and then after 8 weeks at 200mg. His serotonin levels went up 50% in that time.

I stopped taknig 5htp while pregnant, and struggled somewhat with insomnia throughout that time. Finally, in desperation, I restarted it around 7months, and noticed an improvement within 4 weeks. However, immediately after delivering the baby I started having serious insomnia issues all over again, that were not responding to the 5htp. After many weeks, I finally succumbed and restarted my SSRI. It takes about 6 weeks until I start to feel a difference with it, and I'm not there yet, but I will be in 2-3ish weeks. I hate taking that stuff, but chronic insomnia and 4 young children is not functional.

All this said, I NEVER had sleep issues prior to having thyroid issues. Autoimmune thyroid disease started 10 years ago, and within 1 year of synthetic thyroid hormone, I started having the sleep problems that have plagued me on and off since. I believe it's because my adrenal gland is chronically taxed thanks to inadequate thyroid hormone replacement (=physical stress). My cortisol levels are pretty flat throughout the day (13, 11, 11, 11 but this was taken while pregnant, which increases normal cortisol levels by roughly double). I plan on retesting in the next month or two.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Dh and our OMD were talking yesterday about treating depression naturally versus using SSRIs. They both agreed that treating things naturally is beneficial; personally I do not think the side-effects of SSRIs are worth any short-term relief (I'm only talking in non-extreme situations; this is only my non-professional opinion /disclaimer). She said that serotonin can have side-effects too, and that you do not know how it's going to interact with someone until they start taking it.

From her perspective, the best way to naturally work with depression with through 5HTP. Personally, I have taken it both during pregnancy and also while breastfeeding (various ages from infant through toddler) and have never noticed any ill-effects. Our OMD said that 100mg, divided into two doses is a good amount; my book Prescription for Natural Cures says that 50mg - 100mg, 3x a day is recommended (starting with 50mg, 3x a day and moving up to 100mg if the change is only minor with the 50mg). I already take 50mg as part of a combo supplement; we also have 5HTP as a separate supplement, 50mg cap's. So, we are working on 100mg a day to see how it helps (we have both dealt with depression alongside adrenal fatigue).


----------



## bigeyes

FWIW, I'm still trying to unravel the mystery as to why I've always felt better when I smoked, since smoking is _not_ something I want to do for _so many_ reasons.

Not only does smoking increase cortisol, it also affects serotonin levels, so there's _another_ piece of the puzzle. I've added 5HTP to see if it makes any difference for me.

Are there any tests for serotonin levels, or even any established optimum levels to test for?


----------



## eirual

Hello ladies!

I think this is my first post in this thread. I've been meaning to read up more than I have but find the whole topic of thyroid and adrenals so incredibly overwhelming. Please feel free to suggest/point out the obvious- I could as much guidance as I can get!

Anywhoo, here's what brings me here, and some background:

I was a vegetarian for 13 years (from the time I was 13 to just a few months ago). 4 years ago I was diagnosed hypo. I am convinced I botched my thyroid with too much crappy soy (soy milk, soy burgers, tofu, etc.) I got pregnant with DS shortly thereafter, so remained on .025mg of synthroid but avoided soy that wasn't traditionally prepared. After DS was born I had levels re-checked, and though on the lower end, they were in the normal range. I've since avoided soy and managed to keep my levels manageable.

I've noticed when charting though, that my basal body temp has been so low it's off the charts for the past three months (around 35.70 celcius on average). In retrospect this temperature drop (a sign of hypothyroidism) coinsides with me having started eating meat again.

Has anyone found that any amout of soy in animal feed has effected their thyroid levels? I'm feeling so blah these days!

Thoughts?


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## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eirual* 
Has anyone found that any amout of soy in animal feed has effected their thyroid levels? I'm feeling so blah these days!

Thoughts?

There are a few ladies in the Allergies forum who themselves or their LOs react to corn or soy from the feed of animals... So it really wouldn't surprise me, tbh.


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## GoddessKristie

I ordered my tests today!!
I'm getting the combo test from Canary Club. I am very excited and nervous about finding out what is going on. I am curious if there is anything I should or should not be doing. Anything that can affect the test, I mean. I just want to get the most accurate results possible.
I was able to check out Feeling Fat, Fuzzy or Frazzled? from the library. So, I have that for when the results come in. I read somewhere that you should test in the leuteal phase, is that right? I ovulated yesterday, so I should be ok there?
Anything else?

My LO is one of these:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
There are a few ladies in the Allergies forum who themselves or their LOs react to corn or soy from the feed of animals... So it really wouldn't surprise me, tbh.


Even dairy products from animals fed soy make a difference.


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## tanyalynn

Well, we got a blood pressure cuff (the automatic kind) for my husband, and it arrived today and I figured I'd try it out. It seems repeatable, and my blood pressure seems fairly stable (better than unstable, I figure), but whoops, guess my adrenals aren't as far along getting better as I thought. My highest reading was 94/64 (I think the bottom number is right, I have a hard time remembering that one, every time).







:


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## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Well, we got a blood pressure cuff (the automatic kind) for my husband, and it arrived today and I figured I'd try it out. It seems repeatable, and my blood pressure seems fairly stable (better than unstable, I figure), but whoops, guess my adrenals aren't as far along getting better as I thought. My highest reading was 94/64 (I think the bottom number is right, I have a hard time remembering that one, every time).







:

I've only ever had blood pressure that low while I was in the hospital being rehydrated. Mine's usually "perfect" in the 110-120/80ish range (I always forget the bottom number too, so I'm guessing since 80 "sounds" about right).


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Well, we got a blood pressure cuff (the automatic kind) for my husband, and it arrived today and I figured I'd try it out. It seems repeatable, and my blood pressure seems fairly stable (better than unstable, I figure), but whoops, guess my adrenals aren't as far along getting better as I thought. My highest reading was 94/64 (I think the bottom number is right, I have a hard time remembering that one, every time).







:

Did you do the lying down to standing readings? I always know how bad mine's going to be by the severity of the head rush.


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## Metasequoia

Does anyone get random hand pain? I first noticed this a few cycles ago around ovulation & figured it was a hormonal response. But now it's here again & I just finished my period about 4 days ago (the hand pain has been here for about 4-5 days now.) It's not in my joints (thank goddess) but feel more like tissue pain? Like when I press the soap pump or something - it feels almost like skin pain, but more of a deep ache.

When it first happened, a few cycles ago, it was an all over ache - mainly on my torso.

Weird, weird stuff.


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## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Did you do the lying down to standing readings? I always know how bad mine's going to be by the severity of the head rush.

I should try that, I'll see if I can (just doing this by myself I mean, logistically). This was just following the directions sitting with my feet on the floor and the cuff at heart level (who knew that was important? glad there's instructions). I think Jacqueline could be onto something re: dehydration, going to work on water and salt.


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## kjbrown92

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Well, we got a blood pressure cuff (the automatic kind) for my husband, and it arrived today and I figured I'd try it out. It seems repeatable, and my blood pressure seems fairly stable (better than unstable, I figure), but whoops, guess my adrenals aren't as far along getting better as I thought. My highest reading was 94/64 (I think the bottom number is right, I have a hard time remembering that one, every time).







:

Mine is always about that. The doctors always say it's great. Is it not great? My top number only got over 100 when I was pregnant.


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## MissyH

I have hand hand pain. Last year I clipped my rose bushes and my hand got sore. Really sore, like I was having trouble writing. It took a really long time for the soreness to go away so I decided that it wasn't just a sore muscle. It was a deep pain that I could feel when I pushed on it. I've also had this in my forearms. I figure it's just part of the package.


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## Pookietooth

My top number is usually in the 90s, but it's better than it was, a couple of years ago it was always in the 80s, sometimes right at 80. That's when I was dizzy all the time.


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## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissyH* 
I have hand hand pain. Last year I clipped my rose bushes and my hand got sore. Really sore, like I was having trouble writing. It took a really long time for the soreness to go away so I decided that it wasn't just a sore muscle. It was a deep pain that I could feel when I pushed on it. I've also had this in my forearms. I figure it's just part of the package.

I haven't had that but it reminded me - what I have had is blood vessels breaking in my fingers very easily - like right along the knuckle joints.


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## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kjbrown92* 
Mine is always about that. The doctors always say it's great. Is it not great? My top number only got over 100 when I was pregnant.

I can certainly accept that not everyone needs to be identical, but this is a sign of a problem. I think it's most often adrenal-related--it took me almost 2 decades before I realized that my adrenals weren't in good shape, and then to slowly piece things together. Your inability to gain weight is also classic for adrenal issues (I don't have that problem, I tend to gain when things are off). It's like cholesterol--they point out if it's high (and I'm not confident their definition of high is great) but it's rare to have low cholesterol pointed out as a problem, even though the data is pretty clear that low cholesterol correlates to a lot of bad health outcomes.


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## AquariusHome

Hello ladies. I'm new to this thread. I've been slowly trying to get caught up but I have a question that I'd really like to know the answer to tonight or tomorrow and I can't find it in the thread, though I'm certain it's here somewhere.

My doc is checking my cortisol levels tomorrow, but it is just the am blood test. I asked her about the saliva test and she said something like we'll see what the blood test shows and go from there. I'm not sure if she believes in AF at all - she was talking about A.I. I'm pretty sure I don't have AI. Is the am blood cortisol test likely to be helpful in dx AF? Also, does night waking to feed a hungry baby effect am cortisol levels? I get the point of checking the level first thing in the morning but my sleep is pretty spotty after about 3:30 and the doc recommended 8am.

Also, she mentioned doing tests to check my pituitary function (I'm assuming the ACTH and dexamethasone suppression test, depending upon the blood test results). Are these tests safe while breastfeeding?

TIA-


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## tanyalynn

I don't think a 1x/day blood test is sufficient. I think a 4x/day could be, as long as they're comparing the results to the same time of day (not an average over the course of the day). Your AM results could very well be within the range of average for the course of an entire day, but AM cortisol is supposed to be the highest. I don't know about the tests. I think the broken sleep from night-nursing is a stress, but I'm not sure if it's a short-term stress, that would show up in test results, or a long-term stress that makes it harder to heal.

I'd order a saliva test from Canary Club and then find a HCP who understands those results. But I am not willing to fight with someone on treatment--it just means they're not going to be very good about knowing how to do it.


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## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaurieG* 
My doc is checking my cortisol levels tomorrow, but it is just the am blood test. I asked her about the saliva test and she said something like we'll see what the blood test shows and go from there. I'm not sure if she believes in AF at all - she was talking about A.I. I'm pretty sure I don't have AI. Is the am blood cortisol test likely to be helpful in dx AF? Also, does night waking to feed a hungry baby effect am cortisol levels? I get the point of checking the level first thing in the morning but my sleep is pretty spotty after about 3:30 and the doc recommended 8am.

Cortisol is largely responsible for the feeling of awake. So the harder it is to get going in the morning, the lower your cortisol will be then. My issue was waking up for the day at about 4am, then being exhausted around 6. Sure enough, my morning cortisol was slightly above range, and my evening was below range. The clencher on my test was the low DHEA. Can you get her to test your aldosterone?


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## AquariusHome

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Cortisol is largely responsible for the feeling of awake. So the harder it is to get going in the morning, the lower your cortisol will be then. My issue was waking up for the day at about 4am, then being exhausted around 6. Sure enough, my morning cortisol was slightly above range, and my evening was below range. The clencher on my test was the low DHEA. Can you get her to test your aldosterone?

I can ask her. What would that show? She didn't say no to the saliva test - just lets do this first. Do I need an MD order for the saliva test?

I'm not sure where this will go. I have been trying to educate myself on adrenal issues for awhile now. I'm not really a classic case but it seems AF must be at least a partial factor. But I went to this doc (who is my PCP) and presented my symptoms hoping to rule out any more mainstream or easy to fix issues. I didn't actually expect her to check my adrenals at all and was pleasantly surprised that that's the direction she wanted to go. I might be underestimating her - maybe she knows more than I realize about AF. My expectation though is that I will be moving on to an HCP next but keeping her for things that require an MD - so it would be easier to get her to do my bidding if I've let her exhaust all her thoughts on this issue, yk?


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## tanyalynn

You can online go to canary club (canaryclub.org?) and order it, no HCP required. Wow, a regular doc who suggests something like this? If the bloodwork shows normal results, I'd do the saliva test.

http://www.canaryclub.org/baseline-a...ctive-dti.html


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## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaurieG* 
I can ask her. What would that show? She didn't say no to the saliva test - just lets do this first. Do I need an MD order for the saliva test?

I'm not sure where this will go. I have been trying to educate myself on adrenal issues for awhile now. I'm not really a classic case but it seems AF must be at least a partial factor. But I went to this doc (who is my PCP) and presented my symptoms hoping to rule out any more mainstream or easy to fix issues. I didn't actually expect her to check my adrenals at all and was pleasantly surprised that that's the direction she wanted to go. I might be underestimating her - maybe she knows more than I realize about AF. My expectation though is that I will be moving on to an HCP next but keeping her for things that require an MD - so it would be easier to get her to do my bidding if I've let her exhaust all her thoughts on this issue, yk?

Aldosterone is typically low once your adrenals crash, so low aldosterone would also point to adrenal fatigue. It's also affected by other things, so it's not as great of a marker. If you have salt cravings and low blood pressure, that's a sign of low aldosterone. You could have her do the blood pressure test where you take your bp sitting, then standing. It's supposed to rise, but with AF, it usually drops. That could make her think twice







You can probably find better instructions with a quick google.


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## AquariusHome

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Aldosterone is typically low once your adrenals crash, so low aldosterone would also point to adrenal fatigue. It's also affected by other things, so it's not as great of a marker. If you have salt cravings and low blood pressure, that's a sign of low aldosterone. You could have her do the blood pressure test where you take your bp sitting, then standing. It's supposed to rise, but with AF, it usually drops. That could make her think twice







You can probably find better instructions with a quick google.

She did do the BP test on me and I didn't drop, though I think some days I do (I have a home meter). My BP in the office yesterday was 120/65 or something, but I was feeling pretty good too. On my home meter it can range anywhere from that to 80/40 on the days I feel like crap. And I'm not sure I crave salt - I eat a lot of salty things (lots of nuts all day) but some days the salt really gets to me (as in too much salt). So these are the reasons I'm not sure I really fit the AF dx. Can Aldosterone fluctuate day to day? And cortisol for that matter? I wonder if I should wait until a bad day to do the saliva test.


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## Periwinkle

Talk to me about uterine fibroids...

I have (so far fairly symptomless) fibroids just diagnoses from a routine MRI checking up on my hernia repair.

I lost a ton of weight 2+ years ago and have kept it off since then (my BMI is now like 21-22). I just quit caffeine completely 2 months ago. I don't eat sugar. What else should I be looking at specifically to avoid them growing or even possibly to shrink them?


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## Metasequoia

That's how I started - with a doc who would only do a one-time blood test, needless to say, didn't help.

Once I found my wonderful ND, he immediately did the ASI from Diagnos-Techs before doing anything else.


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## Metasequoia

SO, who has followed the protocol in The Mood Cure? I'm wondering if increasing my serotonin by supping with tryptophan (& everything else she recommends) will take a load off my adrenals. I think mood has *everything* to do with adrenal health...going back to our discussion on SSRIs being helpful in AF & if I, personally, had a lighter mood, why wouldn't my adrenal health improve?

Does anyone know how Xanax works, chemically? I had to go to the dentist for an emergency appt yesterday morning because it felt & looked like my tooth cracked from bottom to top (from grinding.) Over the phone, they said that they might be able to cap it, but if the crack went to the gumline, they'd have to pull it. Of course I got all anxious, so I took a low dose (25 mg or .25?) of Xanax so the novocaine would work. Turns out, it was just a cracked filling, so she just numbed me, drilled & re-filled.







BUT, I felt AWESOME for hours. Could have partly been because I was SOO relieved that it was just a missing filling but I think the Xanax probably helped too. I didn't have the heavy, stress feeling that I'm so used to anymore.
I'm wondering if Xanax has something to do with serotonin too.

I'm taking my ASI today!!







I've been putting it off for months now. This will be my third year of testing - sheesh. THEN, I can start my pregnenolone again, take licorice religiously, get back on the glandulars & follow the protocol in The Mood Cure.


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## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaurieG* 
She did do the BP test on me and I didn't drop, though I think some days I do (I have a home meter). My BP in the office yesterday was 120/65 or something, but I was feeling pretty good too. On my home meter it can range anywhere from that to 80/40 on the days I feel like crap. And I'm not sure I crave salt - I eat a lot of salty things (lots of nuts all day) but some days the salt really gets to me (as in too much salt). So these are the reasons I'm not sure I really fit the AF dx. Can Aldosterone fluctuate day to day? And cortisol for that matter? I wonder if I should wait until a bad day to do the saliva test.

If aldosterone is fluctuating and sometimes normal, that's actually a good sign! I'd watch for a correlation between your blood pressure and your salt/water intake. See if you can stick with good days by keeping your blood pressure up. And don't bother with the aldosterone tests when your bp is normal to begin with.

Hm, I just saw the bottom number on your bp, 65 is pretty low, though 120 is normal. That might be a clue. I don't know what it means though







:


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## Theloose

In case you're curious about adrenals and cholesterol and random theories







I started a thread


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## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
SO, who has followed the protocol in The Mood Cure? I'm wondering if increasing my serotonin by supping with tryptophan (& everything else she recommends) will take a load off my adrenals. I think mood has *everything* to do with adrenal health...going back to our discussion on SSRIs being helpful in AF & if I, personally, had a lighter mood, why wouldn't my adrenal health improve?

Does anyone know how Xanax works, chemically? I had to go to the dentist for an emergency appt yesterday morning because it felt & looked like my tooth cracked from bottom to top (from grinding.) Over the phone, they said that they might be able to cap it, but if the crack went to the gumline, they'd have to pull it. Of course I got all anxious, so I took a low dose (25 mg or .25?) of Xanax so the novocaine would work. Turns out, it was just a cracked filling, so she just numbed me, drilled & re-filled.







BUT, I felt AWESOME for hours. Could have partly been because I was SOO relieved that it was just a missing filling but I think the Xanax probably helped too. I didn't have the heavy, stress feeling that I'm so used to anymore.
I'm wondering if Xanax has something to do with serotonin too.

I'm taking my ASI today!!







I've been putting it off for months now. This will be my third year of testing - sheesh. THEN, I can start my pregnenolone again, take licorice religiously, get back on the glandulars & follow the protocol in The Mood Cure.

My mom has my copy of The Mood Cure, so I can't remember off hand what the protocol was (or what mine was according to the book), but I have been taking 5HTP and GABA now for the past two weeks and I think it's starting to positively affect my mood. I take 150mg of 5HTP (100 in the morning and 50 at night), and 750mg of GABA in the morning. I'm hoping that if I'm starting to feel a bit better that it will mean my adrenals will have a bit more of a break (feeling better means less likely to snap at stress/anxiety-inducing situations, which means the adrenals should be less stressed in general) and begin to heal.


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## moneca

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Are there any tests for serotonin levels, or even any established optimum levels to test for?

My ND ordered neuroscience urinary neurotransmitter tests for me years ago which did measure a serotonin level. Mine was the lowest possible reading, but rose to therapeutic level within a month of two neuroscience supps.

https://www.neurorelief.com/

You just have to find a practitioner from their list in your area.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moneca* 
My ND ordered neuroscience urinary neurotransmitter tests for me years ago which did measure a serotonin level. Mine was the lowest possible reading, but rose to therapeutic level within a month of two neuroscience supps.

https://www.neurorelief.com/

You just have to find a practitioner from their list in your area.

what's a neuroscience supp?


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I'm hoping that if I'm starting to feel a bit better that it will mean my adrenals will have a bit more of a break (feeling better means less likely to snap at stress/anxiety-inducing situations, which means the adrenals should be less stressed in general) and begin to heal.

That's my theory too.

I can't tear myself away from this thread!

I messed up my ASI because I didn't drink my usual morning cup of green tea & wound up with an AWFUL headache complete with major vomiting episodes. BUT, I'm now completely & totally caffeine-free! Aiming for Monday to complete the test....


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## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
That's my theory too.

I can't tear myself away from this thread!

I messed up my ASI because I didn't drink my usual morning cup of green tea & wound up with an AWFUL headache complete with major vomiting episodes. BUT, I'm now completely & totally caffeine-free! Aiming for Monday to complete the test....

Oh that sounds most unpleasant.







Are you planning on staying completely caffeine-free now?


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Oh that sounds most unpleasant.







Are you planning on staying completely caffeine-free now?

Absolutely. I LOVE my morning cup of jasmine green tea & I love the health benefits of green tea, and I find it relaxing - but I DON'T love being addicted to something that causes such a brutal physical response when not taken. It's kind of scary.

I think it's best for my poor adrenals.


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## Annikate

I have been caffeine-free now for a long time. I do drink decaf every morning and I guess there are trace amounts in there, but I *need* it.









I had to have my dog put to sleep the week before last and so I've been really bad about my diet - eating a lot of comfort foods (ice cream, wheat-based products) and my energy levels are blah. Last Sunday I had to nap for about 3 hours in the middle of the day - something I hadn't HAD to do in a while now. Thing is, I'm such an addict and so now I have to tear myself away from the crap again and start anew.

I can do it! I can do it!


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## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I have been caffeine-free now for a long time. I do drink decaf every morning and I guess there are trace amounts in there, but I *need* it.









I had to have my dog put to sleep the week before last and so I've been really bad about my diet - eating a lot of comfort foods (ice cream, wheat-based products) and my energy levels are blah. Last Sunday I had to nap for about 3 hours in the middle of the day - something I hadn't HAD to do in a while now. Thing is, I'm such an addict and so now I have to tear myself away from the crap again and start anew.

I can do it! I can do it!

















and







And yes, you can do it! You are amazing in what you can do!!!


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## MyLittleWonders

Well, I upped my 5HTP and GABA - what I was taking was having positive effects, but I realized the other day that I needed to up the dosage. So, now it's 250 mg of 5HTP (100 morning, 100 afternoon, 50 at night), and 1500 mg of GABA (750, 2x a day). Now I'm back to trying to remember my magnesium and CLO daily. I think if I could get all of those in on a daily/consistent basis, I'd feel really good.









And I don't know if I said anything on this thread or not (can't keep track sometimes), but I dropped the DHEA back in February. I hadn't felt "right" intuition wise taking it since I started back in November. But, I took it anyway. I think it totally messed with my cycles. Since stopping, my cycle is back to normal - not quite 28 days, but pretty close with *no* inbetween bleeding or spotting. Yay! But, I think the side-effect now is that I put a little weight back on and I think it made me slightly estrogen dependent. I'm not thrilled about that, but I am not sure if I want to do something like pregnenolone to try and balance it all back out again. (Our OMD told dh that I will do much better through menopause when I get there if I am estrogen dependent.)


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## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I have been caffeine-free now for a long time. I do drink decaf every morning and I guess there are trace amounts in there, but I *need* it.









I wonder if there's something in the decaf besides caffeine that your body wants/needs right now. What else is in coffee? How are you on sulfur foods?


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## coolgirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kjbrown92* 
This time when I re-ordered Travacor (I just CANNOT sleep without it), I also ordered Adrenacor. It says to take 1-3 capsules once or twice daily. Does anyone know if you're supposed to slowly increase, and/or if it keeps you awake? I tried two different Adrenal ones already (the first one the ND gave me didn't do anything and neither did the other). Since I think the Travacor works really well, I'm trying the Adrenacor made by the same company.

Have you tried excitacor along with Travacor by neuroscience it is for Dopamine.


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## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Well, I upped my 5HTP and GABA - what I was taking was having positive effects, but I realized the other day that I needed to up the dosage. So, now it's 250 mg of 5HTP (100 morning, 100 afternoon, 50 at night), and 1500 mg of GABA (750, 2x a day). Now I'm back to trying to remember my magnesium and CLO daily. I think if I could get all of those in on a daily/consistent basis, I'd feel really good.









And I don't know if I said anything on this thread or not (can't keep track sometimes), but I dropped the DHEA back in February. I hadn't felt "right" intuition wise taking it since I started back in November. But, I took it anyway. I think it totally messed with my cycles. Since stopping, my cycle is back to normal - not quite 28 days, but pretty close with *no* inbetween bleeding or spotting. Yay! But, I think the side-effect now is that I put a little weight back on and I think it made me slightly estrogen dependent. I'm not thrilled about that, but I am not sure if I want to do something like pregnenolone to try and balance it all back out again. (Our OMD told dh that I will do much better through menopause when I get there if I am estrogen dependent.)

YK, I remembered you saying that about it messing w/your cycles. I swear AF was going to arrive the other day but I think I ovulated again instead! I wonder if the DHEA is doing the same thing to me. Hmmm...


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## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I wonder if there's something in the decaf besides caffeine that your body wants/needs right now. What else is in coffee? How are you on sulfur foods?

Fine, as far as I know. I really think it's the taste of coffee that I like. Giving up the caffeine was easy. I seriously could give up the decaf, but it's part of my morning ritual.


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## AquariusHome

Even decaf for a few days will give me the caffeine-withdrawal migraines (complete with nausea) for 3 straight days. I have to stay away from it altogether, which is so sad b/c I love my morning coffee.









This is a good topic for me to read today. I'm SOOO tired and seriously craving a soda for a pick-me-up.

Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.... But the soda is right there in the fridge begging me.


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## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
YK, I remembered you saying that about it messing w/your cycles. I swear AF was going to arrive the other day but I think I ovulated again instead! I wonder if the DHEA is doing the same thing to me. Hmmm...

From what I've read, DHEA can act differently for everyone who takes it. It doesn't just go to one hormone, if that makes sense. I think it was this thread where I read that women are not usually prescribed DHEA because it can cause testoterone to rise, causing facial hair and such. I think for me, it ended up causing my estrogen to get out of balance. But, I'm leary of starting another hormone supplement if I went the route of pregnenolone.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaurieG* 
Even decaf for a few days will give me the caffeine-withdrawal migraines (complete with nausea) for 3 straight days. I have to stay away from it altogether, which is so sad b/c I love my morning coffee.









This is a good topic for me to read today. I'm SOOO tired and seriously craving a soda for a pick-me-up.

Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.... But the soda is right there in the fridge begging me.

















Be strong, be strong . . .

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
From what I've read, DHEA can act differently for everyone who takes it. It doesn't just go to one hormone, if that makes sense. I think it was this thread where I read that women are not usually prescribed DHEA because it can cause testoterone to rise, causing facial hair and such. I think for me, it ended up causing my estrogen to get out of balance. But, I'm leary of starting another hormone supplement if I went the route of pregnenolone.

INteresting. Well, I could use some more testosterone for sure. I'd like some libido back.


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## desertpenguin

i haven't had a chance to follow this thread but i have been wondering for awhile now if it's possible to have adrenal fatigue and not be deficient in sodium? i did the pupil test a month or two ago and my pupils started fluttering immediately. however, i have also done the sodium taste test that i read about on this forum and it tasted like salt water and wasn't particularly appetizing. i haven't done the potassium taste test yet because i keep forgetting to buy the no salt stuff. i suspect that i am hypothyroid. i'm going to be getting some blood tests in a couple of weeks, but they're only testing my TSH and cholesterol, liver function blah blah because i currently have no health insurance (getting tested through the Indian Health Clinic) and i couldn't convince the doctor to do any of the other thyroid tests because "they're expensive and unnecessary unless the TSH test indicates a problem".







anyways, if anyone can tell me anything it would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## MyLittleWonders

I come and go with sodium. There are times I crave it, and so I go with that. Usually I don't use much salt at all. I have learned that when I feel dizzy, I need salt. Right now I feel pretty good with just the regular sodium I get in my day. (I wonder though if the sodium ascorbate I use daily is making up for sodium deficiency, so to me it seems like I'm not craving salt?) When I was first diagnosed with adrenal fatigue, I didn't have any salt cravings (nor was I using SA). About a month after beginning supplements, my salt craving took off and I was probably eating about 1/2 teaspoon a day, which for me is a lot. That tapered about a month or so ago.

I don't have any information about the thyroid testing. I suspect I am hypothyroid too, but the few times I've been tested via allopathic medicine, my tests were always "normal". I might have my ND test me when I retest my adrenals, but I haven't decided yet. Sorry they are giving you grief about trying to get a thorough testing done.


----------



## Metasequoia

I crave salt a lot & use a lot but salt water still tastes like @$$ to me. I hide my salt sandwiched between a spoon of applesauce when I need more than I'm getting by salting my food.


----------



## Metasequoia

The multi recommended in The Mood Cure is Now Foods True Balance. It has 900 mcg of copper but high Bs.

What do you guys think of this multi? Do you take one? If so, which one? I had a hard time finding one that didn't have wheat grass juice or barley juice.


----------



## tanyalynn

I'll respond here as well. I take Perque2 Life Guard for my multivitamin and Perque Bone Guard Forte 20 for my multimineral. They're from my HCP but they can be purchased online. I think they have a good balance of nutrients--the things that seem extra high or extra low, at least the ones that I checked out, made sense once I did some reading (rather than the old, pathetic prenatals I used to take that just put 100% RDA of everything and called it good enough).


----------



## Pookietooth

Is 900 mcg of copper a lot? I tested as high in copper (not off the charts high, but high normal) and low in zinc so I have to be careful.


----------



## desertpenguin

thanks for the responses MyLittleWonders and Metasequoia!

ETA: maybe i am getting enough (or closer to enough) salt in my diet then? idk, i don't eat a lot of prepackaged food and i use sea salt in all of my cooking.


----------



## AquariusHome

So I'm wondering about the effects of AF on the breastfed infant/ toddler. Here's where I'm going with this: DD has been sleeping badly for the past few weeks - maybe teething, combined with an exposure to one of her allergies, etc. Her sleep was up and down at night but has been settling into a better groove recently. This whole time naps have been okay and my mood has been pretty stable. Until 2 nights ago - she was up for 3 1/2 hrs in the night (no reason I can identify). Since then my anxiety is through the roof. I'm snappy with the kids, feel a lump in my throat, etc. DD can't sleep now during the day unless I'm holding her. This is an old pattern for us but not lately. Obviously the lack of sleep could be stressing my adrenals and she's picking up on my stress level, but I'm wondering whether there is a more biochemical explanation. Does stress affect the quality of BM? Also wondering what to do about it.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I crave salt a lot & use a lot but salt water still tastes like @$$ to me. I hide my salt sandwiched between a spoon of applesauce when I need more than I'm getting by salting my food.

Yeah. There are some things I can eat with salt, but I cannot choke down salt water _at all._


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I'll respond here as well. I take Perque2 Life Guard for my multivitamin and Perque Bone Guard Forte 20 for my multimineral. They're from my HCP but they can be purchased online. I think they have a good balance of nutrients--the things that seem extra high or extra low, at least the ones that I checked out, made sense once I did some reading (rather than the old, pathetic prenatals I used to take that just put 100% RDA of everything and called it good enough).

Wow, those are expensive! What do you think of Now Foods that is recommended in TMC?


----------



## Periwinkle

No one responded to my question a couple of pages back about the connection between AF and/or caffeine consumption and uterine fibroids. Just bringing it up again in case anyone had any ideas.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
No one responded to my question a couple of pages back about the connection between AF and/or caffeine consumption and uterine fibroids. Just bringing it up again in case anyone had any ideas.









I believe there is a connection between caffeine and fibroids iirc


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Wow, those are expensive! What do you think of Now Foods that is recommended in TMC?

Mine are sorta expensive, and for most of the past year I've been taking 6/day (the usual dose is 2/day







). I've recently cut back to 4, but may decide to go back to 6.

These are the differences that I see--my health situation is different than yours, of course, so some of these may not matter, some may.

Mine has a lot more of most of the B vitamins, especially B6 (which works with zinc, which mine is also fairly high in--and mine has no copper, and zinc is a big deal for me). I'm taking 6/day which is 75mg of zinc which is a lot. Mine has folate instead of folic acid, and for some folks this really matters, there are fairly common gene variants that make it difficult for people to convert folic acid into folate. whoMe in the detox discussions talks about that more (it has to do with the MTHFR genes, and actually for me I don't think it matters much, but a family history of stroke and maybe early heart disease makes that more likely--testing is really needed to know--check out whoMe's discussion for real details).

Magnesium oxide isn't a great form, but it's better than no mag. Good form of selenium, you probably don't need any copper at all, I bet you have a whole lot of dietary sources. I think roughly a 10:1 ratio of zinc to copper is what most people need, and given that most diets have more copper than zinc, this wouldn't make up a zinc deficiency (my best guess), but it may allow someone to hold steady where they are (again, my best guess).

I haven't gone vitamin shopping in a long time, I'd say these could be a reasonable choice. I'd have to take a whole lot to get the Bs I need, and I'd need a separate zinc, but depending on what you're looking for with them, they could be okay. It seems like the zinc/copper issue, and the folate/folic acid issue are things to consider. And depending on your history of supplementation and your individual needs, you may need more magnesium. I'm guessing you get a fair amount of calcium from stock, but I'm not sure how depleted you feel (childbearing and nursing is so draining). Which is why I use a separate mineral supp for that type of stuff.

I feel like I'm rambling, but I hope this gives you something to think about. And I think the warning is hilarious. "Do not eat freshness packet."


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Yeah. There are some things I can eat with salt, but I cannot choke down salt water _at all._









Scary thing is, lately, while I can't say I've enjoyed the taste of salty water, I'm able to drink it every morning. I have this feeling that I slacked off in the extra-salt department for quite a while, and now I'm really behind. It's not nasty bad like it used to be. And strangely enough, when I do this, it seems like it makes my blood pressure _lower_ by about 5 points systolic, and maybe a little less diastolic. I don't understand that, but it's gone up and down a few times as I've been good/not good/good with the salt.







:


----------



## ajillfisch

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaurieG* 
So I'm wondering about the effects of AF on the breastfed infant/ toddler. Here's where I'm going with this: DD has been sleeping badly for the past few weeks - maybe teething, combined with an exposure to one of her allergies, etc. Her sleep was up and down at night but has been settling into a better groove recently. This whole time naps have been okay and my mood has been pretty stable. Until 2 nights ago - she was up for 3 1/2 hrs in the night (no reason I can identify). Since then my anxiety is through the roof. I'm snappy with the kids, feel a lump in my throat, etc. DD can't sleep now during the day unless I'm holding her. This is an old pattern for us but not lately. Obviously the lack of sleep could be stressing my adrenals and she's picking up on my stress level, but I'm wondering whether there is a more biochemical explanation. Does stress affect the quality of BM? Also wondering what to do about it.


I posted awhile ago about the huge connection my kids have to my problems through the BM, unfortunately. My older son (4 yo) especially is terribly sensitive, used to have insomnia (awake for 2-3 hours nightly - for some reason I didn't connect it to my own insomnia) and still mostly breastfeeds.

It has been hard to justify breastfeeding him when he has obviously suffered a lot from whatever is awry in my body. If nothing else, when he reacts badly to something I am usually also reacting so I have no patience for his behavior and really have lost it with him repeatedly, though it's getting better. My mom is really disturbed by my continuing to nurse him, to her it seems almost abusive. I can't explain my rationale for doing so, I just can't imagine stopping.

I know this is not really helpful, except I am 100% sure what goes on in my body is passed to my kids. Even my older son's bedwetting is completely physical, it stopped altogether for about a week after he started taking digestive enzymes in the evening (started again after I messed with the regimen, unfortunately).

Sorry for rambling - I don't have any suggestions other than to trust what you observe with your kids and to try to help them by healing yourself, though easier said than done!


----------



## Metasequoia

Thanks Tanya, those are good points to consider.







I wish it didn't have copper - my zinc is good & I'd hate to ruin a good thing.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Thanks Tanya, those are good points to consider.







I wish it didn't have copper - my zinc is good & I'd hate to ruin a good thing.

If your zinc's already good, then this may be okay. It doesn't look like, to me, it will correct a zinc deficiency, but if you're okay, then this could work. I'm still taking crazy amounts of zinc, and if my son is any guide, I probably will be for quite a while. But check into the folate/folic acid thing, that's important for long-term stuff like cancer, and mid-term stuff like detoxification.


----------



## MommyHawk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaurieG* 
So I'm wondering about the effects of AF on the breastfed infant/ toddler. Here's where I'm going with this: DD has been sleeping badly for the past few weeks - maybe teething, combined with an exposure to one of her allergies, etc. Her sleep was up and down at night but has been settling into a better groove recently. This whole time naps have been okay and my mood has been pretty stable. Until 2 nights ago - she was up for 3 1/2 hrs in the night (no reason I can identify). Since then my anxiety is through the roof. I'm snappy with the kids, feel a lump in my throat, etc. DD can't sleep now during the day unless I'm holding her. This is an old pattern for us but not lately. Obviously the lack of sleep could be stressing my adrenals and she's picking up on my stress level, but I'm wondering whether there is a more biochemical explanation. Does stress affect the quality of BM? Also wondering what to do about it.

I find that if I'm having adrenal issues that are effecting MY sleep, my DD gets those same side effects, like I'm passing on some sort of hormones to her that cause her own adrenal issues...the more we have weened (she's about three now) the better she sleeps. I've also demanded that there be no night nursing except for the initial going to sleep and when she wakes up. Since then we both sleep a lot better and that in turn is healing my adrenals.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
If your zinc's already good, then this may be okay. It doesn't look like, to me, it will correct a zinc deficiency, but if you're okay, then this could work. I'm still taking crazy amounts of zinc, and if my son is any guide, I probably will be for quite a while. But check into the folate/folic acid thing, that's important for long-term stuff like cancer, and mid-term stuff like detoxification.

Do you know if it'd be harmful to take folate on top of the folic acid that's in the multi?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyHawk* 
I find that if I'm having adrenal issues that are effecting MY sleep, my DD gets those same side effects, like I'm passing on some sort of hormones to her that cause her own adrenal issues...the more we have weened (she's about three now) the better she sleeps. I've also demanded that there be no night nursing except for the initial going to sleep and when she wakes up. Since then we both sleep a lot better and that in turn is healing my adrenals.

My sleep has been messed up lately - I wake up to pee almost EVERY night & it's driving me batty. Once I'm awake, I have a hard time falling back to sleep. Ds, however, sleeps like a log & still nurses a lot.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Do you know if it'd be harmful to take folate on top of the folic acid that's in the multi?

I'm not sure, whoMe would know better. I'm trying to keep up with the folate/folic acid thing, but I'm being bogged down by methylation, I really need to understand. Brain... getting... so... old.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Do you know if it'd be harmful to take folate on top of the folic acid that's in the multi?

Short answer, probably not.

Long answer, it depends on your genetics, and I only recently found out that due to MTHFR mutations, the folic acid in my b complex was working against me and I need food folate instead. The difference has been amazing.


----------



## SandyMom

I am ALMOST half way through this thread!
Geez, what a lot of great information.
I find I get bogged down and overwhelmed by all the info online.
I need it all in one place.
Are there any good comprehensive books on adrenal fatigue?
The only ones I've seen at the library were not that great.
TIA


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Metasequoia,
If you also have thyroid issues, you need to be getting vitamin A from an animal source, not just as carotenes. Conversion of carotenes to vitamin A in people with thyroid problems is impaired.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Short answer, probably not.

Long answer, it depends on your genetics, and I only recently found out that due to MTHFR mutations, the folic acid in my b complex was working against me and I need food folate instead. The difference has been amazing.

Found the copper thread from the thread you linked!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandyMom* 
Are there any good comprehensive books on adrenal fatigue?
The only ones I've seen at the library were not that great.
TIA

I like Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000, mostly because it's written by the doc who trained my ND, but I also think it has a lot of great info. I haven't found one that I think hits on *everything* since there's just too much. There are so many threads that people (in this thread) post about that are all related to AF.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Metasequoia,
If you also have thyroid issues, you need to be getting vitamin A from an animal source, not just as carotenes. Conversion of carotenes to vitamin A in people with thyroid problems is impaired.

I don't eat vegetables.







Nor do I have thyroid issues (according to multiple tests.) Are you thinking of someone else maybe? I eat more meat than most people.







We also take CLO, double doses.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ajillfisch* 
I posted awhile ago about the huge connection my kids have to my problems through the BM, unfortunately. My older son (4 yo) especially is terribly sensitive, used to have insomnia (awake for 2-3 hours nightly - for some reason I didn't connect it to my own insomnia) and still mostly breastfeeds.

It has been hard to justify breastfeeding him when he has obviously suffered a lot from whatever is awry in my body. If nothing else, when he reacts badly to something I am usually also reacting so I have no patience for his behavior and really have lost it with him repeatedly, though it's getting better. My mom is really disturbed by my continuing to nurse him, to her it seems almost abusive. I can't explain my rationale for doing so, I just can't imagine stopping.

I know this is not really helpful, except I am 100% sure what goes on in my body is passed to my kids. Even my older son's bedwetting is completely physical, it stopped altogether for about a week after he started taking digestive enzymes in the evening (started again after I messed with the regimen, unfortunately).

Sorry for rambling - I don't have any suggestions other than to trust what you observe with your kids and to try to help them by healing yourself, though easier said than done!

Before I respond, a little disclaimer:








I am a huge b'feeding proponent. I tandem nursed my dds for quite a long time.

*However*, I do believe that my breast milk was doing more harm than good to dd2. She had metal toxicity - we worked w/a DAN doc for about a year and a half and now she's better







but I did notice a difference in her when I stopped nursing her when she was 2 years old.

I wouldn't have considered weaning her until her doc (who I love, love, love) very gently mentioned that it might be worth a try. He told me to pump in the meantime just in case I wanted to go back to nursing but I didn't. I knew intuitively that it would be best for her if she didn't have my milk anymore.

It makes me sad to say that, but it was true. I didn't know the extent of *my* issues back then b/c I was focused so much on dd.

I don't regret nursing her, of course, and I know she got a lot of benefit, but I am glad I weaned her when I did.


----------



## chlobo

Does anyone have memory issues here? I do ok with recent stuff, considering the lack of sleep I get but my whole life I've had trouble with long term recall. I hardly remember any of my childhood. And there's lots of time where someone will say "remember thus and such" and I don't remember thus and such.

Is this an adrenal thing?


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Does anyone have memory issues here? I do ok with recent stuff, considering the lack of sleep I get but my whole life I've had trouble with long term recall. I hardly remember any of my childhood. And there's lots of time where someone will say "remember thus and such" and I don't remember thus and such.

Is this an adrenal thing?

I think it's a symptom of both adrenal and hypo and I never can tell which to blame it on. I can remember things I learned a long time ago but I can't retain anything now. And I ran into someone from grade school who was talking about people from my childhood, and I just smiled and nodded because she and one other girl were the _only_ ones I remembered at all. There are bits and pieces from junior high missing as well. I always kind of thought I'd just blocked out most of my childhood.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Does anyone have memory issues here? I do ok with recent stuff, considering the lack of sleep I get but my whole life I've had trouble with long term recall. I hardly remember any of my childhood. And there's lots of time where someone will say "remember thus and such" and I don't remember thus and such.

Is this an adrenal thing?

Yes! And the weirdest thing has been happening to me lately too which dh and I decided was probably a result of all of my synapses firing properly (finally)









I've been having all sorts of random, seemingly meaningless memories pop up lately. Things w/no emotional attachment so I don't think it's a spiritual sort of thing, just odd flashes.

I know, it sounds nuts!







But seriously, I think it's because I am finally feeling and functioning better!


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
.I always kind of thought I'd just blocked out most of my childhood.

I always thought this too. But hit happens now. I can't really remember my daughters early years. She's 5 now.


----------



## AquariusHome

Boy, this is all great info! I love this thread. And yoou ladies who have been healing for awhile now are so inspirational! I'm almost hoping I do have AF so that there's hope these things that have plagued me for so long (poor memory, low energy, etc) can improve rather than just being me.

Btw - big surprise - the bloodwork my mainstream med doc did all came back "perfectly normal". When the nurse called to tell me this she didn't say "so the doctor wants to check ___ next." So I guess I'm done there. Now, to find someone who can actually help me figure out my particular needs...


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaurieG* 
Boy, this is all great info! I love this thread. And yoou ladies who have been healing for awhile now are so inspirational! I'm almost hoping I do have AF so that there's hope these things that have plagued me for so long (poor memory, low energy, etc) can improve rather than just being me.

I felt that way too when I was waiting for our test results to come back. I finally wanted to find an answer. I actually had a pretty big anxiety attack because I was laying there thinking our tests would come back normal.

And yes, on the memory thing. We here always joke that my oldest took my memory with him as he passed through the birth canal!







I would like to get it back.


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I felt that way too when I was waiting for our test results to come back. I finally wanted to find an answer. I actually had a pretty big anxiety attack because I was laying there thinking our tests would come back normal.

And yes, on the memory thing. We here always joke that my oldest took my memory with him as he passed through the birth canal!







I would like to get it back.

Did he take long term or short term? I have terrible long term memory and I always have (makes me wonder how long my adrenals have been bad). My short term is as good as it can be on little sleep.


----------



## mellowjello

I totally have memory problems, there are large chunks of my life I can't recall in any detail. It makes me sad. I always attributed that to not "living in the moment" so my mind was somewhere else.

Metasequoia, about your green tea, have you tried rooibos? I am loving it. Caffeine free and I heard more antioxidants than green tea. And it's yummy.


----------



## mellowjello

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Before I respond, a little disclaimer:








I am a huge b'feeding proponent. I tandem nursed my dds for quite a long time.

*However*, I do believe that my breast milk was doing more harm than good to dd2. She had metal toxicity - we worked w/a DAN doc for about a year and a half and now she's better







but I did notice a difference in her when I stopped nursing her when she was 2 years old.

I wouldn't have considered weaning her until her doc (who I love, love, love) very gently mentioned that it might be worth a try. He told me to pump in the meantime just in case I wanted to go back to nursing but I didn't. I knew intuitively that it would be best for her if she didn't have my milk anymore.

It makes me sad to say that, but it was true. I didn't know the extent of *my* issues back then b/c I was focused so much on dd.

I don't regret nursing her, of course, and I know she got a lot of benefit, but I am glad I weaned her when I did.

This is totally my experience as well, word for word. We are weaning now at 18 months, and I am sad but it is for the best.


----------



## tanyalynn

Annikate and Mellowjello, I weaned my son at 21mos when I thought it wasn't necessarily in his best interest anymore, and I knew it wasn't in mine.


----------



## Periwinkle

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mellowjello* 
Metasequoia, about your green tea, have you tried rooibos? I am loving it. Caffeine free and I heard more antioxidants than green tea. And it's yummy.











Yogi makes an OUT OF THIS WORLD redbush chai. 100% caff free unlike green and other teas and it's sooooo delish.







They sell it at Martindale's


----------



## Metasequoia

You know, I just ordered a lb of rooibos from Frontier last month & have been enjoying Zhena's lavender rooibos (to die for!) but I think it might cause my bp to drop or something. I found that I feel a little lightheaded after chamomile & rooibos, so I wonder if it's the amount of water w/o sodium???

The kids like TJ's redbush chai (ruby red chai) but I'm not so keen on chai tea for some reason.

*As for memory*, mine's pretty good, at least long-term. I remember a lot from childhood & almost everyone from my early school years. But the years since I've had children are blurrier. I also find that I especially have trouble remembering their early days/months/years of life. I think it's a combination of teh lack of sleep, hormones, that la-la-land feeling from breastfeeding (oxytocin?) and just being SO busy. I try to capture as much of it as possible on video, pictures & by writing stuff down.


----------



## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
You know, I just ordered a lb of rooibos from Frontier last month & have been enjoying Zhena's lavender rooibos (to die for!) but I think it might cause my bp to drop or something. I found that I feel a little lightheaded after chamomile & rooibos, so I wonder if it's the amount of water w/o sodium???

Interesting! I love rooibos, too, and I think it makes the best chai. But, I've realized that I definitely get worse for a few hours every time I drink it (I've stopped drinking it for the time being). I don't _think_ it's affecting my BP, but I didn't check that. FWIW, I don't get that feeling after drinking chamomile, but then I rarely drink it, and when I do it's right before bed, so I may just not know.

Do you not drink any water without salt? I'm just wondering, because I certainly drink water without salt a couple times a day, but don't have trouble because of it.

Speaking of salt, you all were talking about it a couple days ago, and how it's hard to get saltwater down. I thought I'd share what I do, in case it will help anyone. I buy empty capsules and fill them with salt. You can just pour the salt in a bowl and scoop it up with a capsule, but after doing that for awhile I got a capsule filler. It's nice and easy and quick. Each "00" capsule holds about 1/4 tsp. of salt.


----------



## HeatherB

This thread is enormous! I've barely scratched the surface, but am in need of input regarding adrenal therapies and breastfeeding. I bought Michael's Adrenal Factors and Gaia Herbs Adrenal Health at WF, but I'm not entirely sure if either of them is safe while BFing. The little guy is 18mo and nurses quite a bit (dealing with "delayed" allergies in him so nursing has always been easier). I posted a thread in BFing, but am curious if anyone on this thread has input on the ingredients in these? I'm also planning to get Standard Process Adrenal Glandulars for myself and my family members who are all, most certainly, dealing with these issues. The price is good and I'm really hoping it will help. I *need* the help.

Thanks for any input! And I will wade through this thread before long!


----------



## lablover

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Does anyone have memory issues here? I do ok with recent stuff, considering the lack of sleep I get but my whole life I've had trouble with long term recall. I hardly remember any of my childhood. And there's lots of time where someone will say "remember thus and such" and I don't remember thus and such.

Is this an adrenal thing?


This is me. The elementary school years are lost. When my sisters tell stories sometimes that's enough to recall things, but other times I have no recollection. I also have issues with names, for instance at work I have no clue as to who a lot of people are in the corporation outside of my immediate group. My coworkers are always talking about people and I'm always lost. At this point I just accept that I won't remember.

Don't know if it's a thyroid (diagnosed) or adrenal (not diagnosed but strongly suspected) issue or both for me...at any rate it's highly annoying.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeatherB* 
This thread is enormous! I've barely scratched the surface, but am in need of input regarding adrenal therapies and breastfeeding. I bought Michael's Adrenal Factors and Gaia Herbs Adrenal Health at WF, but I'm not entirely sure if either of them is safe while BFing. The little guy is 18mo and nurses quite a bit (dealing with "delayed" allergies in him so nursing has always been easier). I posted a thread in BFing, but am curious if anyone on this thread has input on the ingredients in these? I'm also planning to get Standard Process Adrenal Glandulars for myself and my family members who are all, most certainly, dealing with these issues. The price is good and I'm really hoping it will help. I *need* the help.

Thanks for any input! And I will wade through this thread before long!

I somehow remember either my chiro or my ND saying not to take glandulars while nursing. Does Michael's Adrenal Factors have glandulars in them?


----------



## HeatherB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I somehow remember either my chiro or my ND saying not to take glandulars while nursing. Does Michael's Adrenal Factors have glandulars in them?

The Michael's Adrenal Factors does NOT have glandulars. Here's what it has:

- Eleuthero Root (Eleutherococcus senticosus)
- Ashwagandha Root (Withania somnifera)
- Turmeric Root (Curcuma longa)
- Juniper Berry (Juniperus communis)
- Licorice Root (Glycyrrhiza glabra)

The Gaia Herbs Adrenal Health:
- Rhodiola root (Rhodiola rosea)
- Ashwagandha Root (Withania somnifera)
- Wild Oats Milky Seed (Avena sativa)
- Holy Basil leaf (Ocimum sanctum)
- Holy Basil Supercritical Extract (Ocimum sanctum)
- Schizandra berry (Schizandra chinensis)

I was hoping to be able to take the glandulars for a kick-start of the adrenals, though if these will help and are safe(r), I'll be thrilled to be able to take them. So far I have one vote for glandulars being safe and one vote for not.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I somehow remember either my chiro or my ND saying not to take glandulars while nursing. Does Michael's Adrenal Factors have glandulars in them?

Really? My ND has me on glandulars.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeatherB* 
This thread is enormous! I've barely scratched the surface, but am in need of input regarding adrenal therapies and breastfeeding. I bought Michael's Adrenal Factors and Gaia Herbs Adrenal Health at WF, but I'm not entirely sure if either of them is safe while BFing. The little guy is 18mo and nurses quite a bit (dealing with "delayed" allergies in him so nursing has always been easier). I posted a thread in BFing, but am curious if anyone on this thread has input on the ingredients in these? I'm also planning to get Standard Process Adrenal Glandulars for myself and my family members who are all, most certainly, dealing with these issues. The price is good and I'm really hoping it will help. I *need* the help.

Thanks for any input! And I will wade through this thread before long!

I've been doing really well on straight vitamin support, so I don't know much about the herbs and glandulars. If you're also dealing with food sensitivities, though, I highly recommend looking in the allergies forum here - we've been talking about food sensitivities being caused by problems with our detoxing systems, and how to use foods and nutrients to address that. It all ties in really closely to this adrenal stuff.


----------



## HeatherB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I've been doing really well on straight vitamin support, so I don't know much about the herbs and glandulars. If you're also dealing with food sensitivities, though, I highly recommend looking in the allergies forum here - we've been talking about food sensitivities being caused by problems with our detoxing systems, and how to use foods and nutrients to address that. It all ties in really closely to this adrenal stuff.

Do you have any good links with concise info on it? I'm afraid my head is spinning and I haven't even figured out all of the adrenal info yet!







Going through these enormous threads is tedious and nigh-on impossible for me these days. But I'm definitely interested in what you've found!


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeatherB* 
Do you have any good links with concise info on it? I'm afraid my head is spinning and I haven't even figured out all of the adrenal info yet!







Going through these enormous threads is tedious and nigh-on impossible for me these days. But I'm definitely interested in what you've found!

Umm...
nak
adrenal nutrients: b5, mag, b6, biotin. if you have strong nails and KP, guess b5. chocolate cravings, guess mag. chances are good you need b6/biotin.
for the other stuff, www.eatingcultures.com, but i already need to update it a bunch.


----------



## HeatherB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Umm...
nak
adrenal nutrients: b5, mag, b6, biotin. if you have strong nails and KP, guess b5. chocolate cravings, guess mag. chances are good you need b6/biotin.
for the other stuff, www.eatingcultures.com, but i already need to update it a bunch.

Great info, thank you!







That's the short and sweet kind that I can actually digest.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeatherB* 
Do you have any good links with concise info on it? I'm afraid my head is spinning and I haven't even figured out all of the adrenal info yet!







Going through these enormous threads is tedious and nigh-on impossible for me these days. But I'm definitely interested in what you've found!

If you've got thyroid stuff going on, then detoxification is definitely impaired, due to the low zinc and selenium, and probably B vitamins too. We're trying to work on a shorter, easier way for everybody to figure out what's going on with _them_ but that's really just starting. I _know_ I have detoxification problems, so I've been working backwards, in a way, but it's lots of fun.







But I don't know of a really short form, for now (except consider a good quality, fairly high-dose multi).


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Umm...
nak
adrenal nutrients: b5, mag, b6, biotin. if you have strong nails and KP, guess b5. chocolate cravings, guess mag. chances are good you need b6/biotin.
for the other stuff, www.eatingcultures.com, but i already need to update it a bunch.

Lady, you'd need a direct brain-to-internet translator for your stuff to get updated as much as it "needs" to be.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Lady, you'd need a direct brain-to-internet translator for your stuff to get updated as much as it "needs" to be.









Where can I get one!?


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Really? My ND has me on glandulars.

And you're b'feeding? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was my chiro who said that.

I wonder - what's the book on drugs & supps and b'feeding that La Leche uses? I can't remember that doctor's name. I wonder if there is anything about glandulars in there.


----------



## HeatherB

Hale is the doc. He's pro-bfing but not so much pro-alternative meds, so he doesn't always cover things like that. I have a pared-down copy but haven't looked for glandulars yet. Will do that shortly. I do wish he'd do some studies on natural/alternative remedies!

For now, I'm going to try the glandulars on the basis that they're replacing what I already should be creating. Somewhere earlier in this huge thread it was discussed that they're bio-identical? Anyway, I'm not concerned about the glandulars at this point, given that I have heard from people who have taken them while bfing, too.

I'm still trying to figure out about the herbal support supplements, though. I wish there were more info out there!


----------



## Metasequoia

Ds was only 10 months when I started treatment & pretty much EBF at that point. My ND put me on glandulars, pregenolone & licorice (& Seriphos, as needed.) He was aware of my nursing & even decided to keep the licorice dosage low because of it, but he had no concerns over the glandulars. 2 years later (Ds is 3), he's still nursing & I'm still taking my supplements.


----------



## HeatherB

Does anyone have thoughts on adrenal cortex versus whole adrenal glandulars? I have very little energy and tire extremely quickly, so I'm thinking I may need the whole adrenal glandulars, but would appreciate any insight.


----------



## bigeyes

I started taking melatonin, 5-HTP and L-tryptophan a few weeks ago, and my migraines have almost completely gone away. I was weaning off of an antidepressant they had given me to help me sleep as I didn't like the side effects and I have never liked the idea of taking an antidepressant anyway.

I have always gotten migraines from lack of sleep, from upsetting my sleep schedule, from drinking a beer, or a glass of iced tea, from _so many things_, really, and since I started taking this stuff, I have even pushed my luck and have not had a single migraine even when I had a few beers the other night.

I couldn't believe it, so I drank a few last night. (I'm not that brave, I have migraine pills on hand)

Nothing.

I got my period today.

No migraine.

_I have never in my life drank beer right before my period and gotten away with it._*Never.*

I've been taking lousy prescription drugs for the past 3 years trying to get some sleep and keep the headaches at bay, and all I needed was some non-prescription supplements? Seriously?


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Something in one of the (many) detox threads in the Allergies forum was talking about some problem with conversion from tryptophan to seratonin/melatonin or something like that...


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I started taking melatonin, 5-HTP and L-tryptophan a few weeks ago, and my migraines have almost completely gone away. I was weaning off of an antidepressant they had given me to help me sleep as I didn't like the side effects and I have never liked the idea of taking an antidepressant anyway.

I have always gotten migraines from lack of sleep, from upsetting my sleep schedule, from drinking a beer, or a glass of iced tea, from _so many things_, really, and since I started taking this stuff, I have even pushed my luck and have not had a single migraine even when I had a few beers the other night.

Migraines are linked to amines (methylation?), hormone changes (estrogen would also be methylation) and probably some other stuff. Folate is linked to both serotonin levels and methylation. And serotonin interacts with estrogen. I'm not sure how the pieces fit together, but there's got to be something there!


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Migraines are linked to amines (methylation?), hormone changes (estrogen would also be methylation) and probably some other stuff. Folate is linked to both serotonin levels and methylation. And serotonin interacts with estrogen. I'm not sure how the pieces fit together, but there's got to be something there!

Yeah. I don't know how it all works, I just know antidepressants were not working and were pissing me off in general because they are not good for thyroid patients anyway and we've all had them thrown at us when they couldn't figure out what was wrong with us in the first place.







:

This is a much better solution all around.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
I started taking melatonin, 5-HTP and L-tryptophan a few weeks ago, and my migraines have almost completely gone away. I was weaning off of an antidepressant they had given me to help me sleep as I didn't like the side effects and I have never liked the idea of taking an antidepressant anyway.

I have always gotten migraines from lack of sleep, from upsetting my sleep schedule, from drinking a beer, or a glass of iced tea, from _so many things_, really, and since I started taking this stuff, I have even pushed my luck and have not had a single migraine even when I had a few beers the other night.

I couldn't believe it, so I drank a few last night. (I'm not that brave, I have migraine pills on hand)

Nothing.

I got my period today.

No migraine.

_I have never in my life drank beer right before my period and gotten away with it._*Never.*

I've been taking lousy prescription drugs for the past 3 years trying to get some sleep and keep the headaches at bay, and all I needed was some non-prescription supplements? Seriously?









And headaches are always listed as a symptom of serotonin deficiency! I love when stuff like this happens...


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Something in one of the (many) detox threads in the Allergies forum was talking about some problem with conversion from tryptophan to seratonin/melatonin or something like that...

I'm hoping to try L-tryptophan one of these days since I can't take 5-HTP - I hope I can convert it...


----------



## neveryoumindthere

I wonder if the problem with converting has to do with b6/zinc deficiency. (specifically b6 being needed to make serotonin)
I've been doing a lot of reading on pyroluria, which I'm testing for soon and hoping is the missing link!


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I'm hoping to try L-tryptophan one of these days since I can't take 5-HTP - I hope I can convert it...

Why can't you take 5-HTP?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
I wonder if the problem with converting has to do with b6/zinc deficiency. (specifically b6 being needed to make serotonin)
I've been doing a lot of reading on pyroluria, which I'm testing for soon and hoping is the missing link!

B6, folate and magnesium are all important for converting tryptophan into serotonin and melatonin. Depending on which intermediate helps, you can guess at where your (first) deficiency is to try and address that.

Even if the pyroluria test comes back negative, remember you can still have all the same symptoms, still caused by B6 and zinc deficiency, you'd just be missing the genetic explanation for it.


----------



## neveryoumindthere

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 

B6, folate and magnesium are all important for converting tryptophan into serotonin and melatonin. Depending on which intermediate helps, you can guess at where your (first) deficiency is to try and address that.

Even if the pyroluria test comes back negative, remember you can still have all the same symptoms, still caused by B6 and zinc deficiency, you'd just be missing the genetic explanation for it.

oh ya, i know I still need them, I just want to find out if I should be taking way more without worrying about taking too much.


----------



## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I'm hoping to try L-tryptophan one of these days since I can't take 5-HTP - I hope I can convert it...

Someone had suggested 5-HTP to me years ago and I thought I couldn't take it because migraine meds say not to, to avoid serotonin syndrome. But my doc said you have to really take a lot to get that. So, I tried it and got these results. I wish I'd asked sooner. But everything I had read just said _don't take it, period_, not _if you take too much this can happen._







:


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Why can't you take 5-HTP?

Breastfeeding.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
And headaches are always listed as a symptom of serotonin deficiency! I love when stuff like this happens...

Wow! I had no idea. I have spent most my life with headaches for apparently no reason.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Breastfeeding.

I have taken 5-HTP breastfeeing and while pregnant with no side-effects that we can tell. My ND has me taking something, and previously, I did custom amino acid testing through my chiropractor, and the blend included 5-HTP. Right now I'm still nursing my almost 3 year old and taking about 300mg a day.


----------



## Metasequoia

Huh. I've read in multiple places (including here, in the mental health forum & breastfeeding forum) that it can't (shouldn't) be taken while nursing.


----------



## neveryoumindthere

I read that too.. and yesterday I had an 'intake' appt over the phone with Julia Ross' clinic (The Mood Cure author) and the nutritionist was saying I'd have to wean if I were to attend their clinic and take therapeutic doses of tryptophan.

But she did suggest Total Amino Solutions, 4 caps, three times a day, before meals if anyone is interested. It does include tryptophan and tyrosine among other things.


----------



## Lady TS

I haven't read the whole entire thread, but thought I'd throw this out there.

With all my allergy problems, I felt horrible. Tired all the time(could barely get out of bed), irritable, suspected low progesterone because of change in my cycles, headaches, brain fog, reacting to what seemed like everything, even things in the air, etc.

Last June or so, I requested testing for my thyroid(both types run in my mother's side of the family) and a hormone level check (because I suspected low progesterone due to a change in my cycles). Both came out normal, but looking back I am not sure exactly *what* tests I got and whether they were specific enough. My AAT doc says that the usual test they do for thyroid has a much too broad range of normal and people within that range often experience symptoms of thyroid troubles.

The AAT doc determined by accupressure/strength testing that I have weak adrenals(totally not surprised due to how long I have been fighting allergies and stress and such) as well as a yeast overgrowth problem(again, totally not surprised and was suspecting that as well).

He described the adrenal/yeast problem as a chicken or the egg sort of thing. You don't know for sure which came first, but once they get out of balance it is hard for the body(especially one with an ailing immune system struggling for whatever reason) to get back in balance. Most of the time, when the yeast is taken care of, the adrenals get a chance to rest and heal.

I had begun drinking kefir(for probiotics) every day less than a month before going to the AAT doc. He also recommended Morinda Supreme Noni once a day, then to move up to twice a day, then three times a day, if I felt ok doing that. I have stayed at the once a day, taking it with my kefir, and feel so much better! Of course, I have been going through treatments for my allergies as well and I am sure that has a lot to do with it, too!

Just thought I'd throw that out there.


----------



## Metasequoia

I got my cortisol results back:

*March 2009*

6am-8am: 17 - Normal - reference range: 13-24 nM

11am - noon: 3 - Depressed - reference range: 5-10 nM

4pm-5pm: 1* - Depressed -reference range: 3-8 nM

10pm-midnight: <1 - Depressed - reference range: 1-4 nM

Cortisol Burden: 22 - reference range: 23 - 42

*Further investigation is warranted.

For comparison's sake:

*March 2008:*

7am-8am: 10 - Depressed - reference range: 13-24 nM

11am - noon: <1* - Depressed - reference range: 5-10 nM

4pm-5pm: 3 - Normal -reference range: 3-8 nM

11pm-midnight: 2 - Normal - reference range: 1-4 nM

Cortisol Burden: 16 - reference range: 23 - 42

*Further investigation is warranted.

*March 2007:*

7am-8am: 10 - Depressed - reference range: 13-24 nM

11am - noon: 3 - Depressed - reference range: 5-10 nM

4pm-5pm: 2 - Depressed -reference range: 3-8 nM

11pm-midnight: 2 - Normal - reference range: 1-4 nM

Cortisol Burden: 17 - reference range: 23 - 42

*Further investigation is warranted.

I *think* this is really good news! I see my ND on Tuesday, I can't wait to hear what he says! I didn't get thrown into a "zone" because I didn't do a whole ASI, just the cortisol to save $$. I think the DHEA level needs to be there for the zone assessment. Now I wish I'd done the complete ASI because I think my DHEA would have improved...

My cortisol burden is up considerably! It's only 1 point away from reference range!! It was low in '07 & even dropped in '08, so this is a big leap for me.

My morning cortisol is up 7 points!! This is huge. My noon cortisol is up from '08, but the same as '07, and still depressed - but good goddess, it was really low in '08. The evening cortisol is down from last year, but at least it's my lowest point, so my circadian (diurnal?) rhythm is on the right track!

I wonder if getting the rhythm in proper order is the first step? My next step would be to just raise my cortisol levels at each time, particularly the last 3 times. I have NO idea how I raised my morning cortisol so much - I stopped my adrenal supps for over a month before testing...


----------



## tanyalynn

Metasequoia, that looks good to me! I mean--making more morning cortisol is always a positive step (well, unless you're up at stage 2 or something), but where we are, yay! I think the fact that your diet rocks is really part of this. I meant to write back about a multi, but fact is, my brain's on slow this week and I don't have any good ideas at the moment. But given how much better your diet is than the average out there, I'm wondering if targeted supps may be a better plan for you--I mean, based on the book you mentioned, but subtracting out things you already probably are good on, or things that aren't as high priority, since you aren't like I was when I started on this path--I was eating pathetically and just really worn down, like most folks are, whereas you've got a ton of good habits already going. Did we talk about folate for you already? For some reason I keep coming back to you and folate, and I'm not sure why. whoMe had a good idea to start a thread in Allergies (did you do a big allergy panel a while ago, and it showed lots of allergens? not that it's a requirement, but I bet the detoxification stuff would help relieve stress on the adrenals as well--I've seen changes, just in the past couple months with my son with a couple supps, and I wonder if something like that could help you as well).

Do you need to know your DHEA for making a change in your treatment, or just to know your progress? I mean, documenting progress is helpful, and I think I'll be doing something like that later this year, but you can wait a bit until you test again to see it if it's not going to change your supps now.

Anyway, the bottom line is, yay!







:


----------



## Metasequoia

Thanks Tanya!!









I'm going to ask my ND about your suggestion of target supplements rather than a multi. I might like to take a mineral supp (without copper.)

Folate, huh. I didn't read about what whoMe said about it. So it helps you detox? Just by opening detox pathways or buy mobilizing toxins? You're still bfing, right?

I did do a huge allergy panel & was reacting to 29 foods. I've fallen off the wagon & have not been rotating dairy or the other foods that were minor allergens. I haven't eaten gluten or tomatoes though since tomatoes were a number 3 (I haven't had tomatoes in over a year!) Gluten I reacted to mildly, but I also reacted in saliva testing, so it's been out for a long time now as well.

So, just folate?

DHEA - it would just help to see how much healing (or not) has gone on, that's all. It wouldn't change my treatment, so it doesn't really matter - but to see my DHEA level higher, would make me feel better.


----------



## tanyalynn

Seriously, if you can take the time, read some of the My Story threads (or All About Me) type things, because some of this stuff fits into family history, we can piece together some of it (though sometimes testing is helpful, it's a difference in the MTHFR genes, some folks have different versions and have different dietary needs because of this). Folate would be okay to add while nursing, my multivit has 400mcg of folate per each 2 tablets (and I started on 6 back when I was nursing my son), on my HCP's recommendation (and she's pretty conservative on what she thinks nursing moms can/should do). I added in the stuff in the multi, a separate mineral, and B12 (sublingual). Plus adrenal supps. And vitC to bowel tolerance (hey, that's good for the adrenals, they want to much C, do you have a C supp? gotta admit I use the cheapest I can find, instead of a food-based one).

Gotta run, should've been doing other stuff already.


----------



## coolgirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I got my cortisol results back:

*March 2009*

6am-8am: 17 - Normal - reference range: 13-24 nM

11am - noon: 3 - Depressed - reference range: 5-10 nM

4pm-5pm: 1* - Depressed -reference range: 3-8 nM

10pm-midnight: <1 - Depressed - reference range: 1-4 nM

Cortisol Burden: 22 - reference range: 23 - 42

*Further investigation is warranted.

For comparison's sake:

*March 2008:*

7am-8am: 10 - Depressed - reference range: 13-24 nM

11am - noon: <1* - Depressed - reference range: 5-10 nM

4pm-5pm: 3 - Normal -reference range: 3-8 nM

11pm-midnight: 2 - Normal - reference range: 1-4 nM

Cortisol Burden: 16 - reference range: 23 - 42

*Further investigation is warranted.

*March 2007:*

7am-8am: 10 - Depressed - reference range: 13-24 nM

11am - noon: 3 - Depressed - reference range: 5-10 nM

4pm-5pm: 2 - Depressed -reference range: 3-8 nM

11pm-midnight: 2 - Normal - reference range: 1-4 nM

Cortisol Burden: 17 - reference range: 23 - 42

*Further investigation is warranted.

I *think* this is really good news! I see my ND on Tuesday, I can't wait to hear what he says! I didn't get thrown into a "zone" because I didn't do a whole ASI, just the cortisol to save $$. I think the DHEA level needs to be there for the zone assessment. Now I wish I'd done the complete ASI because I think my DHEA would have improved...

My cortisol burden is up considerably! It's only 1 point away from reference range!! It was low in '07 & even dropped in '08, so this is a big leap for me.

My morning cortisol is up 7 points!! This is huge. My noon cortisol is up from '08, but the same as '07, and still depressed - but good goddess, it was really low in '08. The evening cortisol is down from last year, but at least it's my lowest point, so my circadian (diurnal?) rhythm is on the right track!

I wonder if getting the rhythm in proper order is the first step? My next step would be to just raise my cortisol levels at each time, particularly the last 3 times. I have NO idea how I raised my morning cortisol so much - I stopped my adrenal supps for over a month before testing...

Wpw!!! you really raised your morning cortisol ... how did you do that???


----------



## mommyjamieof2

What is a good brand of supplements to go with? I have noticed a few that have many of the things combined that are suggested is this a good option? Such as http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Sunshi...292825&sr=8-46


----------



## coolgirl

All of sudden my left hand seems to be weaker even as I am typing I feel there is little strength in my left hand. The big muscle under my thumb moves by itself, like I feel muscle running fast and blood rushing through. I am really scared , could some one help?


----------



## MissyH

I have never had what you have right now. If you are really scared I would suggest going to the doctor or calling the advice nurse if you have health coverage. Sometimes my muscles get weak and I get shakey, but I usually attribute this to low blood sugar. Have you eaten today?


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *coolgirl* 
All of sudden my left hand seems to be weaker even as I am typing I feel there is little strength in my left hand. The big muscle under my thumb moves by itself, like I feel muscle running fast and blood rushing through. I am really scared , could some one help?

If you think you need urgent medical help, do that. If you think this could be/should be managed at home, I'd consider B12 and/or magnesium. Both those, I think can cause problems (though the B12 deficiency would have to be fairly significant to do this). Magnesium is easy to test if you're deficient, it's safe to just take some, but also an epsom-salt taste test as described here could help (my DH and daughter tasted it as deficient, but I didn't, so people really do taste it different).

http://www.psha-inc.com/guai-support/sf/TasteTests.htm

What's been going on lately, health/life/supps/other? Any recent stresses of any sort? Or changes?


----------



## coolgirl

No, it doesn't seem like medical emergency. It is Intermittent, seems like it has to do with supplements. Tonight I'll stop Mo 250mcg I have been taking it for quite long now( cu isses). I think it is time to get my cu levels tested. Will see if
stopping Mo makes any change. I totally agree with Mg testing, will do it tomorrow for sure.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Cross posted in the Thyroid Thread.
Okay, so my Armour got increased the other day. The last couple of days when I wake up to pee (baby bladder syndrome), I have a really hard time getting back to sleep (mind feels really awake, thoughts are sort of racing). I'm wondering if it's because my Adrenal support is too low (I was supposed to be taking 4 pills a day of it, but I'm only taking 1 because more than that made me feel strange- a little sick and light headed or something).
Does anyone have experience with this?
I see my ND on the 22nd, but was thinking maybe I should call on Monday to see if I can get in sooner.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Cross posted in the Thyroid Thread.
Okay, so my Armour got increased the other day. The last couple of days when I wake up to pee (baby bladder syndrome), I have a really hard time getting back to sleep (mind feels really awake, thoughts are sort of racing). I'm wondering if it's because my Adrenal support is too low (I was supposed to be taking 4 pills a day of it, but I'm only taking 1 because more than that made me feel strange- a little sick and light headed or something).
Does anyone have experience with this?
I see my ND on the 22nd, but was thinking maybe I should call on Monday to see if I can get in sooner.

I think racing thought insomnia is more associated with low melatonin - B6 helps me.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I think racing thought insomnia is more associated with low melatonin - B6 helps me.

I'm adding in my B-complex tomorrow, so maybe I'll wait a few days before I phone my ND after I add that in. Thanks, whoMe.


----------



## Annikate

Jaqueline - when I took glandulars (for a short time) they made me feel sick too and I could not take the recommended dose.

I wonder if the racing thoughts and sleeplessness mean that the thyroid supp is too much for you right now. That's what happens to dh when his is too high.


----------



## neveryoumindthere

That was my first thought too, especially with the mind racing. For me, that was clearly hyperthyroid.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Jaqueline - when I took glandulars (for a short time) they made me feel sick too and I could not take the recommended dose.

I wonder if the racing thoughts and sleeplessness mean that the thyroid supp is too much for you right now. That's what happens to dh when his is too high.

I was on 4 pills before with no ill effects. It's only since I started reintroducing my supplements since I stopped throwing up that my adrenal supp dose has had to be decreased significantly. I'm wondering if it's not because some of my other supplements were not in place in order to support what my adrenals are trying to do.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
That was my first thought too, especially with the mind racing. For me, that was clearly hyperthyroid.

According to Stop the Thyroid Madness, patients may react with hyperthyroid symptoms on a proper dose of thyroid medication if their adrenals are not being efficiently supported.
The fact of the matter is that my stress levels have increased in the last 2 weeks or so, as well. I'm going to try adding in my B-complex and, if that doesn't calm things down, I'm going to try increasing my adrenal support supp. If that doesn't help, then I will consider that the dose is too high.
Additionally, my FT4 and FT3 levels have dropped since I got pregnant, but not "low enough" for them to be a concern to my doctors, and my TSH has increased by half a point. None of those changes had been enough for my doctors to consider it a problem until my FT4 showed up just barely below the lab reference range, despite my TSH and FT3 being in range.

ETA: Thank you both for the feedback, and I haven't completely dismissed that it could be hyperthyroid symptoms but it seems odd to me that the racing thoughts are *only* in the middle of the night when cortisol is the lowest.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I was on 4 pills before with no ill effects. It's only since I started reintroducing my supplements since I stopped throwing up that my adrenal supp dose has had to be decreased significantly. I'm wondering if it's not because some of my other supplements were not in place in order to support what my adrenals are trying to do.

Don't forget the input from baby's adrenals as they get bigger... You might also be seeing a decreased need for the adrenal supp?

But with your HG and all the other stuff, I'm betting the B6 would be pretty good for you regardless


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Don't forget the input from baby's adrenals as they get bigger... You might also be seeing a decreased need for the adrenal supp?

But with your HG and all the other stuff, I'm betting the B6 would be pretty good for you regardless









Yeah, that's kind of the scary part, to me actually. If I have such a decreased need and the baby's picking up the slack, that means he's already getting some serious stress on his adrenals and he's not even born yet.


----------



## tanyalynn

Your FT4 is actually below the reference range???







: at people not getting how wide the reference range is!

And







for the stress. You're doing great by your kids, they are fortunate to have you.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Yeah... My last test, at the beginning of March, after me BEGGING them for 10 weeks to test my thyroid, came back with a FT4 of 0.59. The lower number for the range was 0.61 (I can't remember the higher number). So, like I said barely below the reference range, but still enough for me to have been feeling it really badly.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I was on 4 pills before with no ill effects. It's only since I started reintroducing my supplements since I stopped throwing up that my adrenal supp dose has had to be decreased significantly. I'm wondering if it's not because some of my other supplements were not in place in order to support what my adrenals are trying to do.


I'd bet that's exactly it.


----------



## PaytonPlace

This thread has been an eye opener for me. I have read alot of the checklists for AF in links that have been posted here and it's like I go down the list yep, yep, yep, yep. I have felt for the past 18 months or so that something has been "off" with me.

The biggest signs for me have been overall fatigue & the inability to lose weight, and that weight is concentrated in my belly. I workout intensely for approx 1 hour, 5 - 6 days per week. I wear a HR monitor & burn 2200 cals per week on average. I eat very healthy homemade meals, very very little processed foods. But my scale has not budged more than 5 pounds over the course of 2 years. I did lose about 10lbs last summer when I had an unplanned pregnancy but it ended up being an ectopic. After that event, I ended up gaining back the 10lbs I had lost. I've gotten to points where I keep a strict food diary so I can check to make sure I'm not underestimating my calorie intake but it has always been right on target. This has frustrated me more than anything. At times I waiver between "it should not be THIS hard to lose weight!" and "ok, I just need to keep at it". To be at my ideal weight, I need to lose between 20 - 30lbs. I am wearing myself down though. Fitting in an intense workout for an hour a day to see no improvement is killing my already low energy level and kills my already disgruntled moods.

But, I also have the dry, thinning hair which is VERY unusual because my entire life I've had a very thick, voluminous head of hair. I have the I'm sooooo tired & exhausted but just can't go to sleep problem. I get irritated if someone sneezes wrong. It seriously takes me an hour & a half to "get going" in the morning, even when I do get a solid 7 or 8 hours of sleep. I have the light headed, brain "rush" when I get up from laying down. I have always had bad acne, the only thing that ever clears it is hormonal birth control. I have foggy brain and lack of concentration. The only time I'm ever "in the mood" is during ovulation time or when I've had a hefty amount of wine







. When a stressful situation comes up, my whole body gets tense & sore. I have been having alot of headaches. I also have whiskery-type hairs that pop up along my jaw line & neck, which seems unusual to me (and gross







).

We are currently TTC (have been for 7 months now without success







) and I had a 7DPO bloodtest done last month through my family doctor (MD) and of course he said the results were "normal". I don't see how they couldn't be normal with the ridiculously large ranges these measurements are given!







: Well, I got the copy of the lab report yesterday and my progesterone was 10.8ng/mL and my Estradiol was 150pg/mL. So, that is an obvious sign of Estrogen Dominance, right?? The test also had my total testosterone at 41 and my TSH at 1.30. But, from my understanding the important figures are the free testosterones?

I'm wanting to get hormonally balanced but I'm not sure if this is a good course to pursue while TTC?? Any advice on that? Part of me thinks scientifically that I won't even be able to get pregnant until I'm hormonally balanced but the other part of me is a worry-wart.

Also, my other concern is the cost. My insurance company doesn't cover NDs. I've found a few NDs in my area from the suggestions on the stopthethyroidmadness website. One of them charges $175 for the initial consultation and $145 for additional appointments and then I'm pretty sure the testing is also an out-of-pocket expense. There's just no way that I can afford that. However, I know from my own experience with trying to treat other issues that the MD or even OB I see will not be helpful in anyway pursuing this. They would most likely tell me to change up my diet & take an anti-depressant.







: So any suggestions on making this more affordable?


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PaytonPlace* 
This thread has been an eye opener for me. I have read alot of the checklists for AF in links that have been posted here and it's like I go down the list yep, yep, yep, yep. I have felt for the past 18 months or so that something has been "off" with me.

The biggest signs for me have been overall fatigue & the inability to lose weight, and that weight is concentrated in my belly. I workout intensely for approx 1 hour, 5 - 6 days per week. I wear a HR monitor & burn 2200 cals per week on average. I eat very healthy homemade meals, very very little processed foods. But my scale has not budged more than 5 pounds over the course of 2 years. I did lose about 10lbs last summer when I had an unplanned pregnancy but it ended up being an ectopic. After that event, I ended up gaining back the 10lbs I had lost. I've gotten to points where I keep a strict food diary so I can check to make sure I'm not underestimating my calorie intake but it has always been right on target. This has frustrated me more than anything. At times I waiver between "it should not be THIS hard to lose weight!" and "ok, I just need to keep at it". To be at my ideal weight, I need to lose between 20 - 30lbs. I am wearing myself down though. Fitting in an intense workout for an hour a day to see no improvement is killing my already low energy level and kills my already disgruntled moods.

I can't comment on the rest of the stuff because I'm in the midst and still haven't figured things out but I just wanted to say that this screams "trying to hard". If you stress yourself out, mentally and physically, your body will do what it can to hold on to things for dear life. I used to have to lose weight for a living (for competitive sports) and I can tell you from experience that the harder I tried the harder it became.

Also, if you indeed have thyroid/adrenal problems its likely that working out *that* much is probably doing more harm than good. There's a reason your body doesn't want to let go of the weight right now. So if I were you, and I know this is hard, I would stop focusing on losing weight and cut back on your workouts. Workout to maintain fitness and try to relax and figure out your other issues.

I realize this will be hard given that you want to TTC and feel a great urgency about it but I really believe that trying too hard is not in your best interest.

Good luck.


----------



## HeatherB

I'm guessing my adrenals might be (at least partially) to blame for my inability to lose weight, as well. I'm not nearly as determined as the PP, so after 3 months of steady workout and no weight and no inches lost (surely, I thought, at least there would be change there!), I fell out of the habit of regular exercise. DH and I are intent on getting an elliptical in the house to take some of the roadblocks out of the way of exercise, as we both really need it. But, I'm wondering how much of a difference it will make with the adrenals still in bad shape...


----------



## Metasequoia

PaytonPlace, what kinds of foods do you eat? I've heard a lot of people in the TF forum say that they've lost weight easily by going TF (and mostly grain-free.) Carbs are really hard on our hormones (insulin & glucose) & once they're out of whack, everything's out of whack. Good fats (like coconut oil, raw butter, raw cream, lard, olive oil, avocados, nuts - SATURATED fats, and some monounsaturated) are r-e-a-l-l-y important for proper hormone balance. Polyunsaturated fats like vegetable oils are not healthy - they're rancid & high in omega 6s.

I know so many people who try to lose weight on low fat diets & they just keep yo-yo-ing because they're never satisfied by what they're eating. Good fats are satiating so you don't feel hungry. Too many carbs mess up your insulin & glucose (blood sugar) in such a way that you're left feeling constantly hungry, trying to get your body out of the dips in blood sugar that occur.

A steady blood sugar is what everyone needs to aim for, first & foremost.


----------



## Metasequoia

Forgot to update on my appt on Tuesday. My ND was happy with my cortisol results. He feels that my pattern is evening out - up to 17 in the mornings is pretty good & my overall cortisol burden is much better - almost in normal range! I don't quite understand how it can have risen so much when I still have absolutely no cortisol in the afternoons & evenings. I completely feel the morning cortisol boost though, it's amazing.
He seemed to think that my healing is taking a while, but he also said that it typically DOES take a while, but he acknowledged my continuous stress & was sure that was to blame for very slow progress.

Overall though, I think that getting on the right pattern is huge - it means my body is figuring out the right path.

The day before Easter I was draaaaaaaagging. It was so hard to do *anything*. I sat up & said, "I need to do _something_!" So I dragged my poor self downstairs to the freezer & took out some liver (grass-fed beef.)
I shaved off a bunch, chopped it into small pieces & poured a ton of Celtic salt & kelp on top. Then I downed it bit by bit with a glass of water. I figure I ate about 4 TBSP of chopped pieces.

The energy was INSANELY quick!! Less than a minute after eating it, I had this physical & mental boost - unreal. I've done this before, but never during a time when I've felt so exhausted. Not only physical energy, but my mood just skyrocketed. I bounced into the living room & made silly faces with the kids & vacuumed the whole house.









So, listen to this, I was telling my ND about it & he thought it was awesome. Then, he's sitting there rubbing his chin, deep in thought & he says, "see if you can get some adrenal glands from your farmer." He's thinking it's more of the adrenal cortex that I need, so I left with ACE (the sublingual drops) that I'm to add to my morning supplement fest. I really need to boost in the afternoon, so I'm going to eat liver around noon & 4pm.

Has anyone ever used raw adrenal glands? I am going to email my farmer today - this should be interesting. Thank goddess for WAPF doctors & WAPF farmers, right?
I imagine I'd only want to take a very teeny amount at once.

On another topic, we had Andrea Stevens as a guest speaker at our WAPF meeting on Wednesday - we had her once before & she is just beyond amazing. She's a clinical nutritionist specializing in digestion & detoxification. Last time, she talked about gut health & this time she focused on detoxification.
She started out talking about detox pathways (didn't get far past liver since we bombarded her with questions for 3 hours.







) I can't WAIT to detox, if DS ever gives up nursing. I talked with her afterwards & she agreed that something else must be going on - heavy metals or candida, something. She said that candida would just be a symptom of heavy metal toxicity, so that would be the first focus. I've never had amalgams, but my mom did while pregnant with me. I know heavy metal toxicity can hurt the adrenals big time.

Her suggestion for detoxing was chlorella tablets & cilantro - LOTS of cilantro - but not while pregnant or bfing. She mentioned other methods, but this is a nice gentle, but effective way to detox. There are things that need to be fixed before you want to detox because if your liver can't dump the toxins that are released from your tissue, they just recirculate, causing a worsening of symptoms & toxicity. Also, boosting health in general by eating a nutrient-dense diet (Andrea is obviously a WAPF believer.)

While I can't do any detoxing for myself, I can help the kids clear out anything that has accumulated by giving each of them a tablet or two of chlorella & making sure we get lots of cilantro (they LOVE guacamole & fresh cilantro on their tacos, which we eat frequently.) Pureeing it into soups is another good way to eat it. So, this makes me at least feel better mentally since I can help clear out any toxins I've passed on to my babies.

Oh, oh! And minerals - I know we talk about all of this (detoxing & minerals) in the allergy forum a lot, but I need to get it all out right here before I lose it.








Andrea's recommendation for mineral supplementation is just Celtic sea salt with some kelp or other sea vegetables. I've been lazy lately & only using Celtic salt in cooking & have been putting Redmond's Real Salt in our salt shaker (which we use A LOT.) I have one of those expensive grinders for Celtic salt, but it still clumps up on the outside & takes forever to grind - especially when you use as much salt as we do. I think I'll just get a mortar & pestle & pulverize it by hand, leaving the bowl on the table so we can just take pinches of it for meals.
I'm going to try to add small pinches of Celtic to my water, which I've had a hard time doing in the past, but I think I really need more minerals.

Phew, I think that's about it for now. This morning cortisol thing is SO nice, I can't imagine feeling like this ALL day long! And, I'm still deficient in my morning cortisol, so this isn't even as good as it should be! There's hope!


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Forgot to update on my appt on Tuesday. My ND was happy with my cortisol results. He feels that my pattern is evening out - up to 17 in the mornings is pretty good & my overall cortisol burden is much better - almost in normal range! I don't quite understand how it can have risen so much when I still have absolutely no cortisol in the afternoons & evenings. I completely feel the morning cortisol boost though, it's amazing.
He seemed to think that my healing is taking a while, but he also said that it typically DOES take a while, but he acknowledged my continuous stress & was sure that was to blame for very slow progress.

Overall though, I think that getting on the right pattern is huge - it means my body is figuring out the right path.

The day before Easter I was draaaaaaaagging. It was so hard to do *anything*. I sat up & said, "I need to do _something_!" So I dragged my poor self downstairs to the freezer & took out some liver (grass-fed beef.)
I shaved off a bunch, chopped it into small pieces & poured a ton of Celtic salt & kelp on top. Then I downed it bit by bit with a glass of water. I figure I ate about 4 TBSP of chopped pieces.

The energy was INSANELY quick!! Less than a minute after eating it, I had this physical & mental boost - unreal. I've done this before, but never during a time when I've felt so exhausted. Not only physical energy, but my mood just skyrocketed. I bounced into the living room & made silly faces with the kids & vacuumed the whole house.









So, listen to this, I was telling my ND about it & he thought it was awesome. Then, he's sitting there rubbing his chin, deep in thought & he says, "see if you can get some adrenal glands from your farmer." He's thinking it's more of the adrenal cortex that I need, so I left with ACE (the sublingual drops) that I'm to add to my morning supplement fest. I really need to boost in the afternoon, so I'm going to eat liver around noon & 4pm.

Has anyone ever used raw adrenal glands? I am going to email my farmer today - this should be interesting. Thank goddess for WAPF doctors & WAPF farmers, right?
I imagine I'd only want to take a very teeny amount at once.

On another topic, we had Andrea Stevens as a guest speaker at our WAPF meeting on Wednesday - we had her once before & she is just beyond amazing. She's a clinical nutritionist specializing in digestion & detoxification. Last time, she talked about gut health & this time she focused on detoxification.
She started out talking about detox pathways (didn't get far past liver since we bombarded her with questions for 3 hours.







) I can't WAIT to detox, if DS ever gives up nursing. I talked with her afterwards & she agreed that something else must be going on - heavy metals or candida, something. She said that candida would just be a symptom of heavy metal toxicity, so that would be the first focus. I've never had amalgams, but my mom did while pregnant with me. I know heavy metal toxicity can hurt the adrenals big time.

Her suggestion for detoxing was chlorella tablets & cilantro - LOTS of cilantro - but not while pregnant or bfing. She mentioned other methods, but this is a nice gentle, but effective way to detox. There are things that need to be fixed before you want to detox because if your liver can't dump the toxins that are released from your tissue, they just recirculate, causing a worsening of symptoms & toxicity. Also, boosting health in general by eating a nutrient-dense diet (Andrea is obviously a WAPF believer.)

While I can't do any detoxing for myself, I can help the kids clear out anything that has accumulated by giving each of them a tablet or two of chlorella & making sure we get lots of cilantro (they LOVE guacamole & fresh cilantro on their tacos, which we eat frequently.) Pureeing it into soups is another good way to eat it. So, this makes me at least feel better mentally since I can help clear out any toxins I've passed on to my babies.

Oh, oh! And minerals - I know we talk about all of this (detoxing & minerals) in the allergy forum a lot, but I need to get it all out right here before I lose it.








Andrea's recommendation for mineral supplementation is just Celtic sea salt with some kelp or other sea vegetables. I've been lazy lately & only using Celtic salt in cooking & have been putting Redmond's Real Salt in our salt shaker (which we use A LOT.) I have one of those expensive grinders for Celtic salt, but it still clumps up on the outside & takes forever to grind - especially when you use as much salt as we do. I think I'll just get a mortar & pestle & pulverize it by hand, leaving the bowl on the table so we can just take pinches of it for meals.
I'm going to try to add small pinches of Celtic to my water, which I've had a hard time doing in the past, but I think I really need more minerals.

Phew, I think that's about it for now. This morning cortisol thing is SO nice, I can't imagine feeling like this ALL day long! And, I'm still deficient in my morning cortisol, so this isn't even as good as it should be! There's hope!

This sounds fabulous. I would love to talk to Andrea. Wonder if she does consults. Our WAPF chapter doesn't have very many events/meetings.

BTW, what's the difference between Celtic & Redmonds? We use Redmonds b/c I'm paranoid about using salt from a polluted ocean.


----------



## tanyalynn

re: weight loss, for me I've really seen my weight go down (and now up) due to inflammation, I think. When I cut out gluten and dairy, I lost weight like crazy, abuot 40 lbs in 5 months without effort, because they were that stressful on my body. Different people have different stresses though--we're transitioning to grain-free for my husband, and we'll see what additional modifications we need for him. I think his gut is very out of balance, and recently mine is too (hence my 15-pound weight gain in the past 3 months).

Metasequoia--I would not consider cilantro gentle. Natural, yes, but not gentle, it is quite the strong heavy metal mobilizer and it seems like it can mobilize metals from the brain (which is hard to do--and for those heavily toxic, can cause mood issues and stuff like stuttering). I'd look at nutrient support, like is being discussed in the Allergies forum, before I did anything that would increase mobilized toxins. Cilantro is pretty serious about mobilizing toxins, I'm not touching the stuff at all right now, and it's been just over a year since I got my fillings out and I've been chelating the entire time, and I've seen good progress on that, my metal load is really coming down.


----------



## tanyalynn

I just realized my last post sounded negative, and I don't feel that way, not really. Most of the things that affect heavy metals can be used with some people, but the ones of us that are more affected need to be more careful. I'm not sure if you consider yourself in that category, Meta, I hadn't gotten that impression before. Cilantro can be used, but I'd say it needs to be weighed with a) what other support of detox pathways is available (so that the metals the cilantro mobilizes can actually be excreted and not just re-distributed) and b) consider dosages carefully and look for delayed issues (mood goes down over the following weeks, like that).

As an aside, I found a place online to buy Himalayan pink sea salt in bulk (serious bulk, I figured we'd need a lot, so more than a year ago I bough 55 lbs, still working through it), so that's a non-sea salt option as well. Not sure how the price would compare to buying salt locally in smaller quantities--the price was still sorta high, but getting closer to what I would pay buying from a local store.


----------



## PaytonPlace

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
PaytonPlace, what kinds of foods do you eat?

I stick to a reduced carb, high quality fat diet. I hate saying "low carb" because it has such a negative stigma these days. Alot of people assume if you're eating low carb that you eat nothing but bacon and steak all day. But, I try to keep my carb grams to around 100 each day. And of those carbs, I get them from fruits and other complex carbs. Fats and oils I use in cooking are never low-fat or chemically created. I used to be a carb-o-holic and could seriously down a whole loaf of french bread or tons of baked goods. Once I reduced my sugars, I noticed how wonderful it was for my blood sugar & that I didn't become this ravenous beast in the afternoons that craved all kinds of bad food. Now, I'm not saying I never have a slice of pizza or a cupcake, but it is very rare and it's so much easier for me to have just a regular serving and go back to eating my normal diet instead of bingeing on every carb in sight.

But anyway....that is a rabbit trail... I think I'm going to order the saliva & blood spot test from Canary Club so I can see where I'm at. I found a naturopath that prefers you to order the tests and then make an appointment with her. On her website she says that she will have phone appts with those that aren't in this area. So, if anyone is looking for an ND, her website is docstanley.com

Has anyone had any luck getting reimbursed from your insurance company for the tests?


----------



## MyLittleWonders

I've been feeling very run down lately; we were all sick (except ds#2) a few weeks ago, and though I think I've "recovered" from the bad cold (no fever for me, but knocked me in bed for 2 days straight and then draggy for the next week), my body is still dragging. I think trying to heal my knee is making it worse (I tore my meniscus and it seems to be taking a long time to get to where I can do something like bike ride or go up/down stairs). Today it's been 5 weeks since I started seeing my chiropractor for rehab, but I think I injured it at least 2-3 weeks prior to that.

I think with the added stress of healing, I did not realize how much my body was needing salt until I finally thought about it last night. I had only been taking in incednetal salt (and does anyone know if taking sodium ascorbate helps with salt needs?), but I realized I think the lack of salt was making my draggy, want-to-fall-asleep-on-the-tile-floor feeling worse. So, I'm back to consciously making sure I get salt in my day. (And I think I'm going to go back to loading up on the SA in 1 gram increments to give my system a help).

And Metasequoia - thanks for the reminder on the carbs/healthy fats. I know I have allowed too many carbs back into my diet and not enough healthy fats. I think the first thing I'm going to do (the easiest for me), is simply add about 1/2 to 1 tablespoon of coconut oil back a few times a day. That alone, I think, will help me avoid the carbs (like the GF rice chex with raw milk "snack" each afternoon







).


----------



## coolgirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Forgot to update on my appt on Tuesday. My ND was happy with my cortisol results. He feels that my pattern is evening out - up to 17 in the mornings is pretty good & my overall cortisol burden is much better - almost in normal range! I don't quite understand how it can have risen so much when I still have absolutely no cortisol in the afternoons & evenings. I completely feel the morning cortisol boost though, it's amazing.

Wow!!!you really got your morning cortisol up, great.Really interested in finding out if you get there with the support of cortisol supplementation or just through adjustments in your diet?


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Metasequoia,
What kinds of things did Andrea say needed to be "fixed" before detoxing?

Tanya, I've been wondering for a few days now- did you do a colon cleanse before starting liver detox?


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Tanya, I've been wondering for a few days now- did you do a colon cleanse before starting liver detox?

I wouldn't say I'm really doing real liver detox. I mean--the lemon juice is, I guess, but mostly what I'm doing is heavy-duty nutritional support and then ALA and DMSA to pull out the metals. It's not specific about where they're pulling from, except that DMSA doesn't get into the central nervous system and ALA does. I'm sure my liver is still pretty bogged down, and I don't think I'll be doing anything more specific until a lot later this year (my guess, more than 6 months out, so who knows how it'll really go?).

In general, we haven't done a lot of digestive stuff with me because my gut hasn't been as messed up as would be expected. It's only lately I've had more issues, and I've just done really basic stuff with biotin and oil of oregano and kimchee (and I need more time to see if I'm successful or if I need to figure out more).


----------



## SandyMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I wouldn't say I'm really doing real liver detox. I mean--the lemon juice is, I guess, but mostly what I'm doing is heavy-duty nutritional support and then ALA and DMSA to pull out the metals.

TanyaLopez, may I ask, did you remove all mercury amalgams before chelation? I've read quite varying views on this.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

How does everything from chelation leave the system if not through the liver then? And if your liver isn't detoxed/detoxing, how is the chelation effective?


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandyMom* 
TanyaLopez, may I ask, did you remove all mercury amalgams before chelation? I've read quite varying views on this.

I got my amalgams replaced a year ago this month. I wouldn't take ALA or DMSA with amalgams in my mouth. I've read that there could be other approaches (not ALA and DMSA) that can help with getting mercury and the other stuff out, but I don't have personal experience there. I'm going the fairly traditional route of amalgam removal and frequent, low-dose oral chelation, ala Andy Cutler (with tweaks and improvements from my HCP).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
How does everything from chelation leave the system if not through the liver then? And if your liver isn't detoxed/detoxing, how is the chelation effective?

Well, answering backwards (because I can see some things working without understanding completely how), I can tell it's effective because the same dosage of ALA is now easy, when at first it knocked me on my butt with fatigue. I think the changes, things like no gluten and dairy (gluten really seemed to mess up my methylation, I think that's what was dealing with the gluten that got through my gut), lots and lots of nutritional support, and I think the lemon juice helped a bit. But DMSA and ALA themselves are supposed to hang onto the metals all the way out, they're supposed to leave the body with the metals, so it should use less nutrients that way (instead of needing to just do it with glutathione). And I think/assume that some of the metals that the ALA and DMSA have mobilized have been from my liver, so that would allow it to function better.

To be honest, although I saw that the lemon juice (first thing in the morning, not general lemon juice consumption in foods, for the general audience) improved my mood within days (and I started smelling smoky), I'm really not sure how that improved my liver function. I mean--it seems like the toxins that were physically sitting in my liver, and squirted out with the extra bile (due to the lemon juice) changed things, my mood improving is a very typical liver improvement (better detoxification of chemicals my body makes), but I don't really understand the nitty-gritty.

My best guess is that detoxification never goes to zero, and the nutrient deficiencies that go along with this are part of why we're detoxifying so badly, so supp-ing to make up those deficiencies (and our bodies will maximize the detoxification output since so much has built up, so I assume it'll take longer to actually not be deficient anymore), allows overall detoxification to improve, and then the mobilizing things pull out more and slowly that allows healing (various places, but I assume the liver too) and it snowballs, but in a good way. But that's not very specific, I realize.

So how's that for a less-than-illuminating answer.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *coolgirl* 
Wow!!!you really got your morning cortisol up, great.Really interested in finding out if you get there with the support of cortisol supplementation or just through adjustments in your diet?

Never took cortisol supps. Just diet, glandulars & pregnenlone - licorice too, but spotty usage. I think removing gluten was really helpful - there were other foods I had to remove according to allergy testing - like tomatoes.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Metasequoia,
What kinds of things did Andrea say needed to be "fixed" before detoxing?

Things like fixing the diet which should improve pooping - because, ideally, if we ingest toxins, we should just safely poop them out, but with gut damage, they seep right on through to the bloodstream & wreak havoc.

So good diet (which I think most of us have accomplished), good supplements to strengthen the body & prepare it (because detoxing is really hard on us) & remineralization. Making sure your water is safe - getting a god filter & I don't remember if she said this or if I talked about it with my ND the day before, but supporting the liver in various ways like milk thistle.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
How does everything from chelation leave the system if not through the liver then? And if your liver isn't detoxed/detoxing, how is the chelation effective?

Detoxing can occur through urine, sweating, breastfeeding, tears - Andrea said that detoxing can happen with any bodily fluid. So maybe all of that spicy Thai food IS good for me afterall.









My ND suggested I add more fiber to my diet & I was like, whoa, wait a second, I though fiber was bad?? But he suggested adding some ground flaxseed - maybe 1 TBSP/day tp my diet because it would help move the bowels (which I don't actually have trouble with, never did) which would allow the liver to function better. If we don't get enough fiber, we can't excrete hormones & they just recirculate causing an imbalance. This doesn't fully make sense to me - but I trust what he says.

Andrea is currently using HMD (heavy metal detox) from the UK - made mostly of chlorella & cilantro. She said it's really strong & is currently using 15 drops 3 x/day.

For mercury testing, she likes provocative urine collection. DMSA is taken in the morning & then a 6 or 8 hour urine specimen is collected (6-8 hours after the DMSA is taken.) DMSA chelates metals from the cells. The second test usually shows a higher toxin level because after the first test with a good diet protocol & supplements, the liver is strong enough to clear toxins resulting in a higher toxin urine specimen.
A heavy metal blood test only shows what you're currently exposed to.

Sea salt: Andrea often visits France & when she comes back, she brings suitcases full of Celtic sea salt. This woman knows toxins & this is what she consumes. It's still processed the old way, using wooden sieves & dried in the sun. The only thing we need to ad is iodine, in sea vegetable form.

Other than that, she recommends epsom salt baths.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Thank you for the detailed answer, Metasequoia. I'm aware detoxing can happen through any bodily fluid, but it was my understanding that the majority of detoxing was via the liver and out through stools... Which would require a properly functioning colon, right?


----------



## writteninkursive

I see a holistic chiropractor and after a hair follicle test, he determined that I was definitely having some sort of adrenal problems. My calcium and magnesium levels are off the charts, and my sodium levels are extremely low (even though I crave salt and eat tons of it). All the other minerals were low, except calcium and magnesium. Based on my sodium to potassium ratio (and actually almost all of the ratios), the doctor advised me to take some Drenamin supplements. I'm supposed to take 8 of them daily, but I take only 4 for now.
I was diagnosed with hypoglycemia when I was 17 years old, after a nasty bout with Mono. After I had the Mono, I was never able to stay away in school again (with the exception of college, which I'm now enrolled in). I was tired all the time, and had little to no energy. It was then that I saw the doctor and my blood sugar was ridiculously low.
While I'm pregnant (I'm currently 21 weeks pregnant with #3), I have horrible episodes of passing out. I get up and walk around or shower, and my blood pressure becomes elevated (to about 145/100). Within about 10 minutes or less, my blood pressure drops drastically (to around 80/50) and I have to sit immediately or I pass out. It's been such a problem for me!
It's been a long struggle to try to find a solution to these problems, but I feel like I'm getting there.
I never had the saliva test done and I don't know that my chiropractor does those.
This thread is such a relief to me! I don't have all the diagnostic information that you do, but it's a help to see people who feel the same as I do and are working to heal themselves!


----------



## chlobo

I know this has been asked a zillion times but this thread is lllloooonnngg.

What adrenal test do people use? Which company? How long does it take to get results. I had one done almost 2 years ago so I'm thinking I need another.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
I know this has been asked a zillion times but this thread is lllloooonnngg.

What adrenal test do people use? Which company? How long does it take to get results. I had one done almost 2 years ago so I'm thinking I need another.

Canary Club as a 4x/day saliva test, and that's what we used for my DH. I was on vacation when he got the test, so I don't remember for certain, but I'm thinking roughly 3 weeks? I was away from home 5 weeks, he was with us the last week, and he hadn't gotten the test before I left home (can ya tell I have some memory issues, that I have to work backwards so much to figure stuff out?







).

http://www.canaryclub.org/baseline-a...ctive-dti.html

This is the page, it looks like they are using a different company now, used to be Diagnos-Techs and now it's ZRT. I don't know why, but it's also a 4x/day saliva test and it looks like it tests similar (identical?) things. Price is the same as last summer too.


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## tanyalynn

double post


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## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
I know this has been asked a zillion times but this thread is lllloooonnngg.

What adrenal test do people use? Which company? How long does it take to get results. I had one done almost 2 years ago so I'm thinking I need another.

My ND orders the ASI from Diagnos-Techs. Lots of nifty adrenal info on that site too.


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## laohaire

I can't figure this out. Do I need to push myself to exercise in order to feel better? Or is it going to continue to wipe me out unless I improve my health overall by other means first?

I am beyond sedentary now. I was never an athlete but in the 12 months since I've been feeling really affected by this fatigue I've been mostly unable to do ANYTHING at all other than just sit. I'm in BAD shape. But when I try to exercise, even a little (maybe 10 minutes on the elliptical trainer, for example - going nice and easy on the lowest setting) I am ready to collapse and it can take days before I get back to my previous "normal" again.

So am I just lazy and need to suck it up and keep enduring this to feel better? Or do I need to wait until I feel better FIRST, then renew the physical activity?


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
I can't figure this out. Do I need to push myself to exercise in order to feel better? Or is it going to continue to wipe me out unless I improve my health overall by other means first?

I am beyond sedentary now. I was never an athlete but in the 12 months since I've been feeling really affected by this fatigue I've been mostly unable to do ANYTHING at all other than just sit. I'm in BAD shape. But when I try to exercise, even a little (maybe 10 minutes on the elliptical trainer, for example - going nice and easy on the lowest setting) I am ready to collapse and it can take days before I get back to my previous "normal" again.

So am I just lazy and need to suck it up and keep enduring this to feel better? Or do I need to wait until I feel better FIRST, then renew the physical activity?

I"m trying to figure this out as well. I was an uber athlete in my youth and was pretty active up until the time my daughter (now 5) was born.

However, now when I exercise it makes me grouchy & irritable & unable to control my emotions. I get tired too but not totally wiped out. I've gained weight & I'm mushy all over so I want to exercise but I don't want to be a grouse.


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## lil_miss_understood

As I was telling chlobo in another thread, I believe there was discussion of this on this thread before and someone's ND had said that they may not be able to exercise (even light exercise) until they'd been treating their adrenals for quite some time.
Honestly, if you think about it, you're not well right now. Would you expect yourself to exercise if you had cancer and it was wiping you out?


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Would you expect yourself to exercise if you had cancer and it was wiping you out?

I had to laugh, cause we keep trying to get my mom to walk for exercise. Sedentary activity actually makes us weaker. We loose 7% of our muscle mass each day we are "bedridden", for example. On the oncology unit, they have a newsletter which reported a study that for people with cancer, those who walk for exercise have *more* energy and less fatigue.









Pat


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristieB* 
OK, I'm not even diagnosed as AF at this point, plus I have MS to complicate things (so I'm not exactly in your shoes), but I do know about exercise, and how to keep it from kicking my butt.

First off, walking _is_ cardio exercise. It's not what people very often talk about in terms of cardio exercise, but it does get the heart pumping.

If you can walk for exercise, and you feel like you can do more, then try walking faster or farther. But go slow. And make sure that you aren't too far from your car/house, so that if you start to feel like it's too much you can get home and lie down quickly. If it goes well, then stay at that level for awhile, and then try increasing again.

Always be cautious and listen to your body. Keep in mind that if you push too hard you _could_ have a long recovery ahead of you. It's not worth it, trust me.

One dr. told me that if you push your body too much with exercise, you're taking away from the body's energy for healing, so you slow the healing process.

As for D'Adamo's book, I am guessing that he was talking about people who are mostly healthy. I imagine exercise works well for the folks who aren't trying to heal. And he probably wasn't looking so much at those who are trying to heal. So, just keep that in mind.

In my experience (which, like I said, would be different than yours), at times exercise is good for me and adds to my energy, and at times it just makes things worse (and sometimes has sent me to bed for days). I've had to learn over the years how to tell which it will be, and how to test when I'm not sure. The key is to listen to my body and _not_ think about what I "should" do, or how it "should" be.

**********************

I find the talk about procrastination and adrenaline very interesting. I've always procrastinated. I do have more energy in the evening, but after seeing this discussin, I wonder if there's another reason I tend to get more done in the evening (that there is is a small adrenaline rush because I know I _have_ to get certain things done before the day is over, and it's almost over). Interesting. Now how to get around that.









And as for cleaning at night, I'm right there with ya. Dh and I call it the Prozac effect. Years ago I was on Prozac, and at first they had me taking it at the wrong time of day. So it would do something to me and I would go into a cleaning frenzy at about midnight, every night (until they changed the time of day I took it). It still happens, only it's much more rare. Dh always laughs at me when it does (if he's still awake).

I understand that, Pat, BUT if 10 minutes of walking on a treadmill is wiping you out for a few days, I think you need to listen to your body rather than "pushing through it", iykwim.


----------



## laohaire

Thanks for reposting ChristieB's reply on exercise. I've said before, I don't see how anyone with AF can possibly wade through this thread!









I think the advice to walk and stay close to home makes sense, but doesn't work for me. I live at the top of a major slope (and there's no way to avoid walking on the slope). So whenever I walk, even if just 1 time aroaund the block, I have to deal with pratically climbing a mountain to get home, and that would absolutely knock me out.

So I have an elliptical trainer so I can get off whenever I want, no commitment. Maybe I'm wrong - heck, PROBABLY I'm wrong - but I'm feeling like the 3-4 minutes a day I can do on the trainer without making me collapse on the floor for 10-15 minutes after, isn't really worth it. Especially since I don't feel BETTER after. But again, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I need to stick with it for a week or so.

I've been instinctively feeling that cardio is NOT my friend right now, but strength training (very light, of course!) could be the answer for me. I have been tempted to invest (a little) into some dumbells and maybe even a bar, and get a book on strength training from the library. I've just hesitated since even $50 spent on this would affect my family - and believe me, $50 on something that will improve my health is a no-brainer, but on the other hand if exercise was just not going to happen right now, I didn't want to blow the money. Also my knees are arthritic right now and blah blah blah.

But I'm thinking I'm being silly. I should get the dumbells and a few light (2.5# and 5#) weights and get the darn book from the library.


----------



## tanyalynn

Maybe you could get most of the benefits of going for a walk by doing those few minutes on the elliptical and then sitting outside for a while, if it's warm enough where you are. I am horribly about getting outside and taking regular walks, and it's not energy (I could walk every day and it'd make me feel better, like the cancer patients







) but I just forget, or get lazy, or whatever. But I think being in the sun would help me.

But I really like weight lifting, so I'd never try to dissuade someone from it, as long as you listen to how you're feeling, it could be great for you. I should find our weights (still disorganized after our move, they're just light ones) and put them somewhere more accessible, they make me happy.


----------



## neveryoumindthere

in the Mood Cure, she says not to push urself with exercise either, rebuild first or at least rebuild a bit before pushing thru the exercise.

i think i'm at a point finally where i can handle walking around the house adn going downstairs to do laundry, as opposed to JUST sitting...even using the stairs/getting out of bed/cooking was pushing it too much for me.

Has anyone looked into acupressure for adrenals? I'm studying acupressure a bit and there are some points for adrenals..don't have my book with me at the moment, but the acupressure points i used on ds for reflux/belching probs and for sleep worked! AND my tinnitus is less loud

worth a try, its' free and easy!


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
in the Mood Cure, she says not to push urself with exercise either, rebuild first or at least rebuild a bit before pushing thru the exercise.

i think i'm at a point finally where i can handle walking around the house adn going downstairs to do laundry, as opposed to JUST sitting...even using the stairs/getting out of bed/cooking was pushing it too much for me.

Has anyone looked into acupressure for adrenals? I'm studying acupressure a bit and there are some points for adrenals..don't have my book with me at the moment, but the acupressure points i used on ds for reflux/belching probs and for sleep worked! AND my tinnitus is less loud

worth a try, its' free and easy!

I'd love to hear/read more about this.


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## Fi'sMom

I second "The Mood Cure" or "The Diet Cure" by Julie Ross!.... Both VERY helpful, simple, realistic, DOABLE! I also am a fan of "The Schwarzbein Program." Yoga and walking are my favorite ways of exercising.


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## Dera

Laohaire,
I am also a fan of weight training and I didn't want the equipment around the house so I do some resistance exercises (exercises that use the body as weights). It feels great and it's really effective. I google "resistance exercises" and use a different website each time and bookmark the ones I like the best. Also, Self magazine has great resistance exercises in each issue and they make them into cards so you can pull them out and re-use them. You can also use houesehold items as dumbells, like cans of soup.


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## neveryoumindthere

Ya, I like her suggestions,too. Much easier (to me) than following all the stuff on this thread







:

I came across this site, has some simple to follow ideas if anyone's interested http://www.naturalways.com/adrenal.htm

Here's some info ( I only took a quick glace at the article though) It has acupressure points near the end of the article. I will look for more if I get a chance. My kids are acting very annoying to be honest.







:

http://www.groundreport.com/Health_a...docrine-Glands


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## laohaire

I think it can be useful to track the ups and downs of your progress as you work on healing yourself. It can be motivating to see your improvements, but also can help you pinpoint some trouble areas.

I devised a very simple sheet that I fit 8 to a page (4 on the front side and 4 on the back side). Of course it could just be digital but I like having a notebook to refer to). For me, here are the items I record on my sheet:

Date
Sleep ---- I note whether I had good sleep the previous night, or insomnia or other issues
Exercies ---- what I did and how much/how long
Breakfast ---- what I ate
Lunch
Snack
Dinner
Meds/Supp ---- what supplements and/or medication I took
Productivity ---- I note if I was able to be productive around the house, and what I did - for example a couple loads of laundry, or pickup of this room or that - or nothing at all
Work ---- similar to above, I note how well - or not - I was able to concentrate on my job and get things done
Notes ---- anything unusual would be noted here - travel, guests, emotional upsets, exciting news, unusually cranky toddler, etc.
Energy Score ---- here I assign a number - scoring sheet below - that sums up how I felt for the day overall - this part is the easiest part to look back on and say, oh wow, I have been rating myself a 4 or a 5 lately but two months ago I was only a 3 most of the time
*Energy Score Key*

10Able to expend a lot of energy without difficulty AND feel terrific!!

9Able to expend a lot of energy without difficulty.

8Able to expend some energy without difficulty.

7Able to keep up well if taking it easy.

6Functional (barely) but somewhat tired.

5Functional (barely) but really tired.

4Minimally productive with great effort.

3Unable to concentrate or be productive.

2Major emotional upset.

1Nonfunctional, unable to converse, hibernating.


----------



## HeatherB

laohaire, I really like your report sheet! I'm wondering where some of my days would fit in, where I can do "big" things, but am utterly and completely wiped out from them. It seems like that would fit closer to the top of the list, but I'm pretty sure I'm nowhere near the top of an Energy Score, ever!

Does this happen for others, as well? I have three little boys, and if I make the (great) effort to take them somewhere special, like the new indoor play gym place, they will go and have a fantastic time, but we have to leave when *I'm* too exhausted from the effort to stay any longer. This is largely due to having to chase the 18mo everywhere (he's got energy to spare!), but I realized the day we went to that place that I have FAR less energy to give, and get far more utterly and completely exhausted from seemingly simple tasks like that, than most people. I can sometimes blame it on having three little boys to chase, but I am convinced most mothers of 3 don't feel this way.


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## lil_miss_understood

I only have 2 (so far) and one is a fair amount older than yours, I think, Heather, but I feel that way. Of course, considering my health issues, I'm probably the last person by which you want to set your personal clock, so to speak.


----------



## neveryoumindthere

Ya i'm beat and *sometimes* I wonder if it's a homeschooling-mom-of-3 thing, but I really don't think so. I think AF lives on.


----------



## laohaire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeatherB* 
laohaire, I really like your report sheet! I'm wondering where some of my days would fit in, where I can do "big" things, but am utterly and completely wiped out from them. It seems like that would fit closer to the top of the list, but I'm pretty sure I'm nowhere near the top of an Energy Score, ever!

Does this happen for others, as well? I have three little boys, and if I make the (great) effort to take them somewhere special, like the new indoor play gym place, they will go and have a fantastic time, but we have to leave when *I'm* too exhausted from the effort to stay any longer. This is largely due to having to chase the 18mo everywhere (he's got energy to spare!), but I realized the day we went to that place that I have FAR less energy to give, and get far more utterly and completely exhausted from seemingly simple tasks like that, than most people. I can sometimes blame it on having three little boys to chase, but I am convinced most mothers of 3 don't feel this way.

Yeah it looks like my score sheet doesn't really account for that. Maybe because I DON'T push myself too hard - when I do, I PAY for it, and I've "learned" to quit before I totally wipe myself. But that said, maybe you'd score a 5 or a 6 on such days.

Also, I put "major emotional upset" as a 2 because it simply slays me - not sure if it's the same for everyone. It wouldn't have to be like a death in the family for me, but just a fight with DH, or a confrontation with my mother.

So I don't think my sheet or scorecard would work for everybody, but just wanted to share the general idea. Some people might want to track if they are losing weight (or waist measurements or something), or have other goals or routines. But I just figured it was an idea that might help organize and motivate some people.

Just keeping up records takes an effort in and of itself, but I am finding I try harder in certain areas (my productivity at home and my exercise) if I have to account to myself. But I also know it's a long journey and wouldn't mind having something that will show me if XYZ supplement has actually been working over time, or if I really felt as bad last fall as I thought I remembered. Sometimes I wonder if I have made ANY progress at all, and I'm hoping the sheets will answer that question in the positive!


----------



## Metasequoia

laohaire, I LOVE your worksheet!! I think I'll borrow it. I don't always get online everyday, so it'll be helpful to have something on paper.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
Ya i'm beat and *sometimes* I wonder if it's a homeschooling-mom-of-3 thing, but I really don't think so. I think AF lives on.

Yea, I get that.

I also get the emotional bit. I'm not sure which comes first though - on days when I'm really bad, maybe the emotional dumps are a result of poor adrenal function - or maybe it goes the other way around. Probably a little bit of both.


----------



## HeatherB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I only have 2 (so far) and one is a fair amount older than yours, I think, Heather, but I feel that way. Of course, considering my health issues, I'm probably the last person by which you want to set your personal clock, so to speak.

My list is long and plentiful, as well, but it's good to know I'm not the *only* one out there - and that there might be a rectifiable reason for it!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *neveryoumindthere* 
Ya i'm beat and *sometimes* I wonder if it's a homeschooling-mom-of-3 thing, but I really don't think so. I think AF lives on.

Yeah, people always are awed that I've got 3 (boys) and am HSing. I *am* exhausted and run down and too busy, but it's not really because I'm doing so much (compared to an average person). In fact, I lean towards unschooling a lot of the time because of the rotten health issues, rather than it being the HSing that's running me down.







: I'd MUCH rather be tired out because we spent the whole day doing science experiments in the back yard and hiked up a mountain while camping for the weekend! Those sorts of things, I can only dream about now.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
Yeah it looks like my score sheet doesn't really account for that. Maybe because I DON'T push myself too hard - when I do, I PAY for it, and I've "learned" to quit before I totally wipe myself. But that said, maybe you'd score a 5 or a 6 on such days.

Also, I put "major emotional upset" as a 2 because it simply slays me - not sure if it's the same for everyone. It wouldn't have to be like a death in the family for me, but just a fight with DH, or a confrontation with my mother.

So I don't think my sheet or scorecard would work for everybody, but just wanted to share the general idea. Some people might want to track if they are losing weight (or waist measurements or something), or have other goals or routines. But I just figured it was an idea that might help organize and motivate some people.

Just keeping up records takes an effort in and of itself, but I am finding I try harder in certain areas (my productivity at home and my exercise) if I have to account to myself. But I also know it's a long journey and wouldn't mind having something that will show me if XYZ supplement has actually been working over time, or if I really felt as bad last fall as I thought I remembered. Sometimes I wonder if I have made ANY progress at all, and I'm hoping the sheets will answer that question in the positive!

Oh, I hope you don't take my comments as a negative on your worksheet! I really like it! Of course it's tailored for you; it should be!







Having it to look back on will be a wonderful resource. I'm terrible at keeping up with *anything* that I can look back on, but I'm tempted to try it again because I can see the usefulness of that in the course of treatment. Thanks so much for sharing it!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I also get the emotional bit. I'm not sure which comes first though - on days when I'm really bad, maybe the emotional dumps are a result of poor adrenal function - or maybe it goes the other way around. Probably a little bit of both.

Here's what I've observed, and always attributed to my dealing with Lyme (I've got congenital Lyme, but didn't find it until just before getting pg with my 1st)... One day, I'll be feeling well, and will do a lot. Maybe I just have something big planned, or maybe I really have extra energy. So we'll clean the whole house, or spend the day at the zoo AND the park, or just get lots of laundry done and take care of everyday things that on some days are too hard. When I was working my Stampin' Up! business, doing a big event would work the same way. Inevitably, after a big, productive day that I felt really good about, I would have an awful downer of a day. I'd literally go from a really happy day to a really depressed day, in what seemed the blink of an eye. And I finally realized this pattern and I think there are several triggers.

First, now that I see I have adrenal fatigue, I'm almost certainly using up all of my resources on the first day and totally crashing on the second day. So I'm physically run down and exhausted and don't feel so hot. I have no "get-up-and-go." Emotionally, I almost always set myself up for failure by expecting to do as much on the 2nd day as I did the first. So I'm physically depressed (I believe), and emotionally down because I can't maintain my productivity.

I'm sure that's long-winded; my apologies. But I hope it makes sense. I've known for quite some time, though, that it's a *physical* depression that I get the day after a big exertion. And I think the AF link makes sense of that. The "emotional upset" category on laohaire's worksheet makes me think of this kind of a day, which is definitely down near the worst I can get. Thankfully, now, I can sometimes give myself some room emotionally when I can recognize this pattern.


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeatherB* 
Yeah, people always are awed that I've got 3 (boys) and am HSing. I *am* exhausted and run down and too busy, but it's not really because I'm doing so much (compared to an average person). In fact, I lean towards unschooling a lot of the time because of the rotten health issues, rather than it being the HSing that's running me down.







: I'd MUCH rather be tired out because we spent the whole day doing science experiments in the back yard and hiked up a mountain while camping for the weekend! Those sorts of things, I can only dream about now.

.

this is so me.


----------



## AquariusHome

Ladies, I'm feeling really down today and I hope someone will take a moment to help me out. I'm trying to get through this thread, along with a bunch of others, in an attempt to figure out which supplements I need to be taking to support my adrenals and open detox pathways. I know the answers are here in this thread, but I'm a mess today and I really am not anywhere close to getting through it. But I could go to the HFS today and buy supplements if I had a starting point. DD was sick and slept terribly early last week, I was really sick later last week and slept terribly, we had weekend company and were busy, and now DD is reacting to something and can't sleep. So I'm completely exhausted and my anxiety (which is usually pretty well controlled) is through the roof - I'm snappy with all the kids, even the baby who isn't doing anything to deserve it. I feel horrible. I'm sure its my adrenals. I'm craving coffee (which I avoid like the plague d/t migraines) and carbs.

I don't mean to be complaining - just trying to explain my state of mind. I haven't had any testing for AF yet. Do I need to do that before I start supplementing, or is there something relatively safe to take that I can start on immediately? Currently I'm not taking anything.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeatherB* 
Does this happen for others, as well? I have three little boys, and if I make the (great) effort to take them somewhere special, like the new indoor play gym place, they will go and have a fantastic time, but we have to leave when *I'm* too exhausted from the effort to stay any longer. This is largely due to having to chase the 18mo everywhere (he's got energy to spare!), but I realized the day we went to that place that I have FAR less energy to give, and get far more utterly and completely exhausted from seemingly simple tasks like that, than most people. I can sometimes blame it on having three little boys to chase, but I am convinced most mothers of 3 don't feel this way.

Heather, I've spent a lot of the past 3 years like this. I had to really decide to slow down, and accept that this is what I need to do, for us, in order to start making progress. And it's still a work in progress.

Too many moms are told that oh, they're tired because they have young children. Well, the nutritional drain and emotional drain of young children pushes our health problems over the edge! And they need real attention.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaurieG* 
Ladies, I'm feeling really down today and I hope someone will take a moment to help me out. I'm trying to get through this thread, along with a bunch of others, in an attempt to figure out which supplements I need to be taking to support my adrenals and open detox pathways. I know the answers are here in this thread, but I'm a mess today and I really am not anywhere close to getting through it. But I could go to the HFS today and buy supplements if I had a starting point. DD was sick and slept terribly early last week, I was really sick later last week and slept terribly, we had weekend company and were busy, and now DD is reacting to something and can't sleep. So I'm completely exhausted and my anxiety (which is usually pretty well controlled) is through the roof - I'm snappy with all the kids, even the baby who isn't doing anything to deserve it. I feel horrible. I'm sure its my adrenals. I'm craving coffee (which I avoid like the plague d/t migraines) and carbs.

I don't mean to be complaining - just trying to explain my state of mind. I haven't had any testing for AF yet. Do I need to do that before I start supplementing, or is there something relatively safe to take that I can start on immediately? Currently I'm not taking anything.

You're not complaining. I think, from your various threads, that a mix of specific adrenal stuff, plus general nutritional support, is appropriate. DH is taking 1000mg of B5 in addition to a normal multivit, and I'm taking 3x as high a dose of the multivit as he is. We use Perque2 Life Guard, I'm supposed to be taking 6/day (I've cut it back to 4 since I'm on the road to getting better), he just takes 2. And we have a separate mineral supp, Perque Bone Guard Forte 20. So if you want to order online, I like those. If you want to buy locally, I'd get the best quality multi they have plus extra B5. Plus we use Allergy Research Group's adrenal glandulars.

whoMe had suggestions for anxiety, mine has always been pretty steady and not extreme, so I've never really addressed it.

Lifestyle stuff that does help (I really need to get back to it): early breakfast (7-8am, with protein), regular lunchtime (I think on the early side), protein snacks whenever you think you need them, which could be every 2-3 hours, regular dinnertime, and I need a bedtime snack too. When I felt at my worst, I was carrying food around all the time, it saved me a few times at the park, when even driving home was getting me worried (the park wasn't that far away, I just didn't have the energy to walk).


----------



## MyLittleWonders

HeatherB - you sound so much like me, down to homeschooling 3 boys. It is hard for me to accept that we can't be as active as I would like to be; I remember when I used to be able to be active without paying for it later.

Is anyone using Chromium to help with hypoglycemia? I used to take it way back in early college; it helped with acne, which seemed to be related to sugar/carb intake. I'm wondering if it would help with the carb/sugar cravings and blood sugar crashes (I tend to eat 3 solid meals a day, and at least 2 more snacks, always with protein, and usually try to make sure there's healthy fat in there too).


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaurieG* 
Ladies, I'm feeling really down today and I hope someone will take a moment to help me out. I'm trying to get through this thread, along with a bunch of others, in an attempt to figure out which supplements I need to be taking to support my adrenals and open detox pathways. I know the answers are here in this thread, but I'm a mess today and I really am not anywhere close to getting through it. But I could go to the HFS today and buy supplements if I had a starting point. DD was sick and slept terribly early last week, I was really sick later last week and slept terribly, we had weekend company and were busy, and now DD is reacting to something and can't sleep. So I'm completely exhausted and my anxiety (which is usually pretty well controlled) is through the roof - I'm snappy with all the kids, even the baby who isn't doing anything to deserve it. I feel horrible. I'm sure its my adrenals. I'm craving coffee (which I avoid like the plague d/t migraines) and carbs.

I don't mean to be complaining - just trying to explain my state of mind. I haven't had any testing for AF yet. Do I need to do that before I start supplementing, or is there something relatively safe to take that I can start on immediately? Currently I'm not taking anything.

General adrenal vitamins are B5, B6, mag, biotin, vit C. The clinic I went to started me on 1000mg B5 and 200mg B6. Magnesium - if you have chocolate cravings, you'll need more. I don't think I need a whole lot, and I supp 200-400mg/day. Biotin - I'm doing 5-10mg/day, but if you suspect candida issues, you'll want to start low and ramp up. It can cause die off.


----------



## AquariusHome

Thank you, thank you, thank you Mamas. Feeling better today - DD let me get a little more sleep. Off to the HFS...


----------



## Dera

I'm going to try a B5 supplement since I've seen it recommended here a few times. Is there a best form or a recommended brand from anybody here? Thanks!


----------



## HeatherB

As hard as it can be to deal with being a mother and having these long-lasting issues, it's very good to know I'm not alone.









I just ordered the Allergy Research Group adrenal glandulars (both whole and cortex) for DH and me. I'm really hoping to have some effect from those (plus the extra Bs and multi and herbal combo I've been taking) to get me through until I can see an ND in June.

I was watching some random show on one of the cable health networks last night, and the "mystery" symptoms of this woman sounded to me so much like adrenal issues. And in the end, she was diagnosed with Addison's! I'm glad I'm not *that* bad off. Does anyone know if adrenal fatigue can progress to something like *Addison's Disease*, or is that a separate issue altogether? My mom has a dear friend/counselor who has it (and is near death, I think, but he's also very old and I don't know the whole story). I'm certain my mom also has AF, but she doesn't seem interested in pursuing it, even though she wants my sister and I to, in order to avoid an outcome like her friend's.







: Hopefully if I can find some relief, she'll be willing to do what it takes to get better, too.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dera* 
I'm going to try a B5 supplement since I've seen it recommended here a few times. Is there a best form or a recommended brand from anybody here? Thanks!

I don't have brand recs, but I would recommend a B-complex plus extra B5--I think 1,000 mg of B5 is a lot all on its own, if you don't get any extra Bs, just what's in your food. Or if you're already taking a multivit, then you're probably set.


----------



## SandyMom

:

I am learning SO MUCH lurking on this thread!!!
Thank you all for sharing and updating your experiences for us all.

Tanya Lopez:

Quote:

So how's that for a less-than-illuminating answer.
Hardly! Your posts are always very illuminating! You should compile them into a book!


----------



## deditus

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dera* 
I'm going to try a B5 supplement since I've seen it recommended here a few times. Is there a best form or a recommended brand from anybody here? Thanks!

I am going to order this one from Thorne:

http://www.naturamart.com/thorne-res...-capsules.html


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deditus* 
I am going to order this one from Thorne:

http://www.naturamart.com/thorne-res...-capsules.html

That's funny, I use the B-complex #6 for my kids, but it never occurred to me that they'd have a #5 for pantothenic acid. But it totally makes sense.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
That's funny, I use the B-complex #6 for my kids, but it never occurred to me that they'd have a #5 for pantothenic acid. But it totally makes sense.

Now I'm nervous about folic acid - someone said something about folate being beneficial, but folic acid being detrimental.

How do you get a B-complex w/o folic acid?


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Now I'm nervous about folic acid - someone said something about folate being beneficial, but folic acid being detrimental.

How do you get a B-complex w/o folic acid?

Thorne doesn't use folic acid except in a rare few cases (B-complexes apparently not being one of them). There are a couple of other companies which also use the 5-methyltetrahydrofolate form, I think.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Thorne doesn't use folic acid except in a rare few cases (B-complexes apparently not being one of them). There are a couple of other companies which also use the 5-methyltetrahydrofolate form, I think.

So this is okay?

Quote:

Folate (100 mcg as Calcium Folinate and 100 mcg as 5-methyl-tetrahydrofolate)


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Yes. Calcium folinate is folinic acid, not folic acid. It's an active form of folate, like the 5-MTHF form, but it's used for different purposes and is converted to 5-MTHF more readily than folic acid (if I've understood things properly).
The concern with folic acid is that it is more often than not not bio-available and competes with the good forms of folate. There's more than just that, but... I don't have WuWei's links to refer to atm.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
That's funny, I use the B-complex #6 for my kids, but it never occurred to me that they'd have a #5 for pantothenic acid. But it totally makes sense.

Heads up - high doses of pantothenic acid can inhibit absorption of riboflavin (B2) and biotin. So don't count on getting them both at the same time.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Yes. Calcium folinate is folinic acid, not folic acid. It's an active form of folate, like the 5-MTHF form, but it's used for different purposes and is converted to 5-MTHF more readily than folic acid (if I've understood things properly).
The concern with folic acid is that it is more often than not not bio-available and competes with the good forms of folate. There's more than just that, but... I don't have WuWei's links to refer to atm.

Yeah to all that, but also - if you're *just* supplementing with folinic acid, it still has to go through the MTHFR enzyme. If you have the right combo of genes, that won't work for you. And my rough estimates give 30-50% of the population those genes


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Yeah to all that, but also - if you're *just* supplementing with folinic acid, it still has to go through the MTHFR enzyme. If you have the right combo of genes, that won't work for you. And my rough estimates give 30-50% of the population those genes









Right. Thanks for clarifying that bit again.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Yeah to all that, but also - if you're *just* supplementing with folinic acid, it still has to go through the MTHFR enzyme. If you have the right combo of genes, that won't work for you. And my rough estimates give 30-50% of the population those genes









whoMe, do you have a primer on your page that talks about the two common MTHFR mutations, and the differences between having 2 of the C677T, having 2 of the A1298C, and one each of C677T and A1298C, vs having neither of those? Somehow I think I need to understand, but when I google, I get lots of conflicting stuff, and I'm wondering if you've sorted it all out yet, since I know you're more motivated on this than I.









And what if you've got just one of either C677T or A1298C?


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
whoMe, do you have a primer on your page that talks about the two common MTHFR mutations, and the differences between having 2 of the C677T, having 2 of the A1298C, and one each of C677T and A1298C, vs having neither of those? Somehow I think I need to understand, but when I google, I get lots of conflicting stuff, and I'm wondering if you've sorted it all out yet, since I know you're more motivated on this than I.









And what if you've got just one of either C677T or A1298C?

Just for you








http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/mthfr.php


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Just for you








http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/mthfr.php

Well, I tried to write my thank you response a while ago but I'm having computer refresh issues. So...

Wow! Thank you!







: Now I've actually had time to read the whole thing (vs when I tried to respond the first time), and I re-found your detoxweb and symptoms pages, more time is needed to figure out DH, but it's getting close!







:


----------



## GoddessKristie

My test results are in today! I took the Canary Club Combo panel and thought I'd post both here and the Thyroid thread to see what everyone thinks!
I love that he included books to read in the notes! Those might be beneficial to others as well.
Here is the chart of what was tested and my levels:
http://s90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...tresults-1.jpg

Here is the graph of my levels:
http://s90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...lts-charts.jpg

And here are the notes that came along with it:

Quote:

Estradiol is within observed range of 1.3-3.3 pg/ml for a premenopausal woman during the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle.
Progesterone is low, consistent with anovulatory cycles and/or a luteal phase deficiency. Low progesterone may contribute to
some of the reported symptoms of both estrogen dominance (e.g., mood swings, fibrocystic breast changes and breast
tenderness, water retention, and weight gain) and estrogen deficiency (e.g., hot flashes, night sweats, sleep disturbances).
Therapies that help induce ovulation and support production of progesterone by the ovaries (corpus luteum) would likely be
beneficial (i.e. cyclic progesterone, Vitex agnus castus). A relative excess of estrogen, unopposed by adequate progesterone,
often leads to a functional thyroid deficiency and one or more of the following symptoms: cold hands and feet, low basal body
temperature, low libido (despite normal/high testosterone), fatigue-particularly in the evening, low stamina, depression, foggy
thinking, anxiety, fibromyalgia, brittle nails and hair, hair loss, puffy eyes, decreased sweating, and constipation. Some of these
symptoms are listed on the requisition form.
Testosterone and DHEAS are low/low-normal which is often associated with one or more symptoms of androgen deficiency (low
libido, incontinence, vaginal dryness, fatigue, memory lapses, bone loss, and depression). Testosterone is an anabolic
hormone essential for creating energy, maintaining optimal brain function (memory), regulating the immune system, and building
and maintaining the integrity of structural tissues such as skin, muscles, and bone. Low salivary and serum testosterone has
been correlated with low bone mass in both perimenopausal and postmenopausal women (Oronzo et al. Eur J Epidemiology
16: 907-912, 2000; Slemenda et al. J Clin Invest 97: 14-21, 1996). Because the androgens are low, it would be worthwhile to
evaluate bone density periodically (yearly) and to consider androgen supplementation to prevent long term health issues,
particularly osteoporosis and increased fracture risk. DHEA supplementation has been shown to raise both DHEAS and
testosterone levels in women (not in men) (Morales et al. 1994. Clin Endocrinol Metab. 78: 1360-67). When DHEAS AND
testosterone are both low, DHEA supplementation is often preferred to testosterone supplementation alone since DHEA therapy
increases both DHEAS and testosterone, and DHEAS has additional benefits to the immune system not seen with testosterone.
DHEAS is lower than the expected age range. Chronic low DHEAS may suggest adrenal fatigue, particularly if cortisol is also
low and symptoms are indicative of low adrenal function. DHEAS is highest during the late teens to early twenties (10-20 ng/ml)
and drops steadily with age to the lower end of range by age 70-80 (2-9 ng/ml). Mid-life DHEAS levels in both males and
females are usually in the range of 5-8 ng/ml. Low DHEAS may contribute to low androgen symptoms (decreased libido,
depression, fatigue, memory lapses, and/or bone loss), since DHEAS is a testosterone precursor. In individuals with very low
DHEAS (< 2 ng/ml), DHEA supplementation in the 5-25 mg dosing range usually raises DHEAS to levels seen in mid-life.
Cortisol is within normal range in the morning and at noon, rises to a high level in the evening and then drops to a normal range
again at night. Higher evening/night cortisol indicates either some form of adrenal stressor(s) that is increasing adrenal gland
synthesis of cortisol or supplementation with a glucocorticoid (eg. hydrocortisone used as an anti-inflammatory or some other
cortisol analogue used for treating allergies or asthma) or adrenal adaptogen that increases adrenal cortisol synthesis (eg.
licorice or ginseng), The most common stressors include: psychological stressors (emotional), physical insults (injury, pain,
diseases), chemical exposure (environmental pollutants, excessive medications), hypoglycemia (low blood sugar), and
pathogenic infections (bacterial, viral, fungal). Acute situational stressors (e.g., anxiety over unresolved situations, coming
home from work to a stressful situation.) can also result in a transient increase in evening/night cortisol levels, which is a normal
response to the stressor. Chronic high evening/night cortisol is commonly associated with sleep disturbances, fatigue,
depression, weight gain in the waist, bone loss, and anxiety. This condition can also impair the actions of other hormones such
as insulin and thyroid, causing symptoms of their deficiency, even though the levels of these hormones may be within normal
range (i.e., insulin resistance and thyroid deficiency). For additional information about strategies for supporting adrenal health
and reducing stressors, the following books are worth reading: "Adrenal Fatigue", by James L. Wilson, N.D., D.C., Ph.D.; "The
Cortisol Connection", by Shawn Talbott, Ph.D.; "The End of Stress As We Know It" by Bruce McEwen; "Awakening Athena" by
Kenna Stephenson, MD; "The End of Stress As We Know It" by Bruce McEwen.
Free T3 is low, consistent with symptoms of thyroid deficiency. Because T4 is within normal range this suggests poor hepatic
conversion of T4 to T3. This may be caused by nutrient deficiency (e.g., zinc and/or selenium), low hGH (low IGF-1), heavy
metal toxicity, liver dysfunction, or steroid hormone imbalances (high estradiol, low progesterone, low testosterone, low or high
cortisol). TSH is within normal range and not reflective of the low T3 and symptoms of thyroid deficiency. This is common with
excessive stress (note: stress is reported as moderate/severe) and associated high production of stress hormones (cortisol or
catecholamines) that suppress pituitary synthesis of TSH. Due to poor T4 to T3 conversion consider thyroid medication that
contains both T4 and T3 or T3 alone. Because a normal physiological level of cortisol is essential for optimal actions of T3 at
the thyroid receptor/gene level, a normal cortisol level should be confirmed by saliva testing before attempting thyroid therapy.
For an excellent review explaining the effects of stress on thyroid and steroid hormone function please see the following:
www.endotext.com/adrenal.
No Hashimotos!


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Though I'm not sure what all the results mean, I do know that no Hashimotos is a good thing!

For me, I'm finally tackling my hormones, namely estrogen. I think the three months I was on DHEA really messed me up ... I think the adrenal fatigue crash I had in November '08 started it, but I think the DHEA made it worse. I went off it in mid-February (IIRC) and my cycles evened back out, but I still sensed that I was dealing with estrogen dominance. So, I decided to start D-Glucarate (or Calcium D-Glucarate, depending on the brand I think) and a supplement called Estro-Balance by Enzymatic.

From the website Vitanet Online regarding D-Glucarate:

Quote:

One of the processes by which estrogen and estrogenic compounds are metabolized and broken down is through glucuronidation. In the liver, they're bound to glucuronic acid and then excreted in the urine or feces. This process can be disrupted by an enzyme called beta-glucuronidase, which is found in the gastro- intestinal tract. It frees the bound-up estrogen or estrogenic compound, releasing it to be reabsorbed back into the bloodstream - to again affect cells.

The removal of excess estrogen can be increased by a natural substance called Calcium D-glucarate (CDG), because it inhibits beta-glucuronidase activity in the body. This means that estrogen bound for excretion stays bound, and the total estrogen load on the body is reduced.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Though I'm not sure what all the results mean, I do know that no Hashimotos is a good thing!

For me, I'm finally tackling my hormones, namely estrogen. I think the three months I was on DHEA really messed me up ... I think the adrenal fatigue crash I had in November '08 started it, but I think the DHEA made it worse. I went off it in mid-February (IIRC) and my cycles evened back out, but I still sensed that I was dealing with estrogen dominance. So, I decided to start D-Glucarate (or Calcium D-Glucarate, depending on the brand I think) and a supplement called Estro-Balance by Enzymatic.

From the website Vitanet Online regarding D-Glucarate:

Thanks for that link, I'd been meaning to look up calcium d glucarate and estrogen!

Estrogen is also detoxed by methyl groups (food folate and B12) and by sulfation (sulfur foods, molybdenum, B6), so those might be good pathways to support as well.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

We were doing those well - I upped my sulfur quite a bit just through MSM and glucosamine/chondroitin (I guess there was something good that came from tearing my meniscus







). We take extra B6 and I think get only the good forms of folate through our supplements, plus we are getting Mo. And, I make sure we get our magnesium each night. But, for some reason, the estrogen didn't seem to want to budge. The insane mood swings/PMS for over a week before my cycle the last couple months made me realize I needed to do something.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
We were doing those well - I upped my sulfur quite a bit just through MSM and glucosamine/chondroitin (I guess there was something good that came from tearing my meniscus







). We take extra B6 and I think get only the good forms of folate through our supplements, plus we are getting Mo. And, I make sure we get our magnesium each night. But, for some reason, the estrogen didn't seem to want to budge. The insane mood swings/PMS for over a week before my cycle the last couple months made me realize I needed to do something.

















:


----------



## Annikate

MLW - I have stopped taking my DHEA too. It felt right at first but after my near-fainting episode the other day I have not taken it. Suddenly, after finishing the entire bottle it intuitively feels wrong. I do think it helped raise my testosterone a bit b/c I did have *some* libido back for a while.







:


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 







:









So, that's a role-reversal. I think I'm the one that is always taking notes from you.







Honestly, the only reason I sought out the D-glucarate is because I was sure you had mentioned it in another thread (I think it was regarding estrogen dominance and pregnancy), and it stuck. So, even though you didn't, it was obviously a message I needed to see.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
So, that's a role-reversal. I think I'm the one that is always taking notes from you.







Honestly, the only reason I sought out the D-glucarate is because I was sure you had mentioned it in another thread (I think it was regarding estrogen dominance and pregnancy), and it stuck. So, even though you didn't, it was obviously a message I needed to see.



















I'm partly taking notes on the fact that methylation and sulfation aren't enough to fix your estrogen issues... BTW, are you also good on B12? Cause you need B12 to absorb the good form of folate.

And yeah, everyone keeps talking about me talking about cal d-gluc for estrogen, but your link is the first explanation I've read, so I swear it wasn't me!


----------



## lil_miss_understood

I think I might have mentioned calcium d-glucarate in one thread once... Months ago.


----------



## GoddessKristie

After thinking and reading a lot since my test results came in, it's clear to me that I have Adrenal issues. My DHEA is low, leading my testosterone to be low and though my T3 was low, that's aparently a symptom of low progesterone. So, I'm going to start the suppliment regimine in The Diet Cure for Adrenal support and the recomendations in Feeling Fat, Fuzzy and Frazzled? to bring my DHEA and Progesterone up by supplimenting those as well. I'm also going to start my daily yoga practice and a daily walk again to help with my cortisol level in the afternoon.
It is so exciting to have answers and to know that what is going on with me is not my fault. It's like a weight being lifted. I have so much hope that I can live a normal life now!


----------



## GoddessKristie

Oh yeah, I wanted to ask those of you who were using DHEA (since some of you have stopped) and those who are still using it;
How long did it take before you felt better using DHEA. How will I know when the dosage is right? Should I stay on one dose for a week? a month? How long before I know it's working?


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
Oh yeah, I wanted to ask those of you who were using DHEA (since some of you have stopped) and those who are still using it;
How long did it take before you felt better using DHEA. How will I know when the dosage is right? Should I stay on one dose for a week? a month? How long before I know it's working?

I can't say if it was the DHEA working for me or the other stuff I started at the same time (thyroid supps, and other supps too) but I do think it helped some b/c my libido came back a bit. DHEA can help raise testosterone. I'm kind of feeling like this is all a crap shoot.

I have a consult w/ a new doc about all of this but it's not until June and I'm getting impatient.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
So, I'm going to start the suppliment regimine in The Diet Cure for Adrenal support and the recomendations in Feeling Fat, Fuzzy and Frazzled? to bring my DHEA and Progesterone up by supplimenting those as well. I'm also going to start my daily yoga practice and a daily walk again to help with my cortisol level in the afternoon.
It is so exciting to have answers and to know that what is going on with me is not my fault. It's like a weight being lifted. I have so much hope that I can live a normal life now!

What's the regimen in The Diet Cure? I have The Mood Cure, but I wonder if it's different in TDC.

I never took DHEA because my ND doesn't usually give it to his female patients - we get pregnenolone instead.

My libido is waaaaaaay back.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I can't say if it was the DHEA working for me or the other stuff I started at the same time (thyroid supps, and other supps too) but I do think it helped some b/c my libido came back a bit. DHEA can help raise testosterone. I'm kind of feeling like this is all a crap shoot.

I have a consult w/ a new doc about all of this but it's not until June and I'm getting impatient.

I think it is all a crap shoot too.







And an expensive one, to boot. But, I think I'm hopefully closing in on what is going to work.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 









I'm partly taking notes on the fact that methylation and sulfation aren't enough to fix your estrogen issues... BTW, are you also good on B12? Cause you need B12 to absorb the good form of folate.

And yeah, everyone keeps talking about me talking about cal d-gluc for estrogen, but your link is the first explanation I've read, so I swear it wasn't me!

I am only getting the B12 that is in my multi and the B-complex. I have not been supplementing extra in a while (I was getting extra in a methylation supplement combo, but I ran out and have to drive across town to the ND to get more so I haven't done that). Is there a good sublingual B12 that is easily found at the HFS?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I think I might have mentioned calcium d-glucarate in one thread once... Months ago. 

Ok, so it must have been you. I had googled estrogen dominance and one of the first hits was an older thread on here regarding e.d. and pregnancy. In it someone mentioned d-glucarate and for some reason I thought it was whoMe ... maybe she posted in the same thread and I mixed up screen names. So, assuming it was you JR - thanks because I am glad to have stumbled upon it.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I am only getting the B12 that is in my multi and the B-complex. I have not been supplementing extra in a while (I was getting extra in a methylation supplement combo, but I ran out and have to drive across town to the ND to get more so I haven't done that). Is there a good sublingual B12 that is easily found at the HFS?

I don't think it's too hard to find the good form. Just look for methyl-, hydroxy- or adenosyl- (not sure if I spelled that right). There were several to choose from over here.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Ok, so it must have been you. I had googled estrogen dominance and one of the first hits was an older thread on here regarding e.d. and pregnancy. In it someone mentioned d-glucarate and for some reason I thought it was whoMe ... maybe she posted in the same thread and I mixed up screen names. So, assuming it was you JR - thanks because I am glad to have stumbled upon it.









Actually, I'm going to back you up in blaming whoMe now. I suggested kombucha in that thread and she said "No, calc d-gluc is better."








But I think the original blame goes to WuWei.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
What's the regimen in The Diet Cure? I have The Mood Cure, but I wonder if it's different in TDC.

I never took DHEA because my ND doesn't usually give it to his female patients - we get pregnenolone instead.

My libido is waaaaaaay back.

















No need to be embarrassed! I can't wait until mine comes back like it used to be!

I know nothing about pregnenolone, I'll have to check that out. My doc suggested a bioidentical testosterone last time. I may seriously consider that.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
What's the regimen in The Diet Cure? I have The Mood Cure, but I wonder if it's different in TDC.

I never took DHEA because my ND doesn't usually give it to his female patients - we get pregnenolone instead.

My libido is waaaaaaay back.









How did I miss this?
I want some of that!


----------



## neveryoumindthere

hook me up too!

I totally missed that. was it the pregnenolone?


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Actually, I'm going to back you up in blaming whoMe now. I suggested kombucha in that thread and she said "No, calc d-gluc is better."








But I think the original blame goes to WuWei.









I know I've mentioned it before, but it was likely only in the context of salicylates. That's the only one I knew of detoxed by glucoronidation.

Not that it even really matters


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I know I've mentioned it before, but it was likely only in the context of salicylates. That's the only one I knew of detoxed by glucoronidation.

Not that it even really matters









Perhaps, but you even suggest it in your first post of the detox and breastfeeding thread.








And I know it doesn't matter, but I still think it's (a little) funny.


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Perhaps, but you even suggest it in your first post of the detox and breastfeeding thread.








And I know it doesn't matter, but I still think it's (a little) funny.









Okay, I see the confusion. I'm talking about cal d gluc specifically for estrogen issues. That's what everyone keeps saying I was talking about, but I don't recall ever suggesting. For general detox stuff, yeah, sure, I've definitely thrown it out there. But everyone keeps thinking I'm suggesting it for estrogen.

Hmm... maybe I say it, then they go 'hmm, what's that?' google and get a bunch of estrogen links. Yup. I bet that's it.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Okay, I see the confusion. I'm talking about cal d gluc specifically for estrogen issues. That's what everyone keeps saying I was talking about, but I don't recall ever suggesting. For general detox stuff, yeah, sure, I've definitely thrown it out there. But everyone keeps thinking I'm suggesting it for estrogen.

Hmm... maybe I say it, then they go 'hmm, what's that?' google and get a bunch of estrogen links. Yup. I bet that's it.










The proof is in the pudding, ladies.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
The proof is in the pudding, ladies.
























That is exactly the thread I was talking about!


----------



## GoddessKristie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
What's the regimen in The Diet Cure? I have The Mood Cure, but I wonder if it's different in TDC.

I never took DHEA because my ND doesn't usually give it to his female patients - we get pregnenolone instead.

My libido is waaaaaaay back.









For adrenal repair there are several things.
The main suppliments are:

Pantothenic acid 100-500 mg at Breakfast and Lunch
GABA 100-500 mg mid afternooon and at bedtime
Calmes Forte as needed for mild relaxation

Then for Stages 1 2 and 3:
B1 200mg with lunch and dinner (also breakfast if you're stage 1)
If DHEA is to low in 1 2 and 3:
Females: 5-10mg DHEA caps or subling. at breakfast and dinner (I don't feel great about this one because the body mostly makes DHEA in the early morning. Why would you take it in the evening?)
Males: 10-15mg at the same times

For stage 2 and 3:
Licrocice root caps or liquid licorice root extract 10-40mg 2 hours before your test results show you have a drop in cortisol.
5-20mg pregnenolone each day taken at the end of meals.
Homeopathic adrenal corted 6c-4c
Cortisone (prescription) as recommended 2-3 times per day.

On top of this there is a whole suppliment section that gives general recomendations for what your multi should have in it and additional supplimentation. That section is huge. The recommended multi is Glucobalance. On top of a high quality multi she suggests:

Calcium 250-350mg single or double dose at bedtime
Magnesium 200mg double dose at breakfast and lunch
B Complex 10-50mg mid morning and mid afternoon
Vitamin C with bioflavanoids (200-500mg bio. in 1,000mg C) at breakfast and dinner
Vit. E 400 IU at breakfast
Fish oil or flax oil, 1,000 mg at breakfast and dinner
chromium 200mcg (not needed if you use glucobalance) at breakfast lunch and dinner

There is also a meal plan which involves eating for your blood type. She recomends about 60% low-carb vegetables, 25% protein, 10% high carbs., and 5% fats (is that good math? it's a pie chart LOL).

It's a good book and I'm really glad I found it. Before I get my suppliments, though I'm going to check out Natural Hormone Balance for Women by Uzzi Reiss at the book store. It has specific dosing recomendations in it, and I want to cross reference the dosing to be certain (esp since she doesn't talk about progesterone).

I'm also going to continue taking L-tyrosine for my thyroid. I've noticed a difference since I've been on it.


----------



## Annikate

GK - Is all that from The Mood Cure?


----------



## Metasequoia

No, that's all from The Diet Cure. I have TMC, but not TDC.

Thanks GK!


----------



## Metasequoia

Annikate, I just noticed you're raising chicks too! How old are they? Ours will be 4 weeks tomorrow. We love them.


----------



## Metasequoia

I just ordered these from naturamart.com:

Biotics Research Multi-Mins™ Iron & Copper Free (Potent Mineral Combination) 120 Tablets

Thorne Research B-Complex # 5 60 Capsules

Thorne Research Vitamin K2 1 oz

Got free shipping & a 20% discount.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Annikate, I just noticed you're raising chicks too! How old are they? Ours will be 4 weeks tomorrow. We love them.









We







them! Ours are about 8 weeks old I think. And boy, do they grow fast!


----------



## scbegonias

Subbing. I was just diagnosed with hypothyroid, and some folks have suggested that I look into adrenal fatigue because of that and some other things (hypoglycemia, PCOS, low blood pressure, yeast overgrowth, food intolerences).

BTW, we're also getting chicks/chickens sometime soon. a belated bday gift for me after years of longing







.


----------



## Annikate

Okay, so I just did some muscle testing on all the supps I've been taking and wow! DHEA came up very very weak (good thing I intuitively knew and stopped taking it last week.) Also chromium picolinate - very weak and its side effects:
* Unexplained bruising
* Nosebleed
* Skin rash or blisters
* Urinate less than normal
* Feel very tired
* Loss of appetite
* Nausea or vomiting
* Sleep disturbances
* Headache
* Dizziness

I have had every single one of those except the first 3 this week and have felt TERRIBLE!

And I had been feeling really really good until then.

Maybe once these get out of my system I'll start feeling better again. Well, that and eliminating sugar (again.)


----------



## GoddessKristie

No sweat, Metasequoia! I have it from the local library. I like it, but because the chapters aren't listed by what the problem is I got confused alot (the mental fogginess I have didn't help) regarding what suppliment was for what problem. It took me a while to get it, which was frustrating, but I did eventually get it (it would have been easier if I could have marked the book up).
Natural Hormone Balance for women was much easier to read, but it's mostly hormone replacement. I felt that replacing the hormones I am deficient in would serve as a band-aid. I need a band-aid to function, but I don't want to be stuck taking hormones forever and I don't believe in just treating symptoms. So, I decided to use his recomendations and TDC recomendations so I can function now by supplimenting my deficiencies, but also heal my adrenals so I can stop taking the hormones eventually.

I went yesterday to get suppliments and I thought my DH was going to pass out. Here's my regimine:
Pantothenic Acid 500 mg breakfast
B1 150 mg breakfast lunch and dinner
DHEA 25 mg breakfast
Magnesium 500 mg breakfast 250mg lunch
Calcium 600 mg bedtime
B complex ?? See notes at the end
Vitamin C (with bios) 1000 mg breakfast and dinner
chromium 200 mg breakfast lunch and dinner
5-HTP (time release) 100 mg lunch (because of my 4pm rise in cortisol)
Pregnalone 20 mg breakfast
Zinc 25 mg lunch
Vit. E 400 IU lunch
selenium 200 mg lunch
Multivitamin ??? see notes at the end
Progesterone Cream (from Sourse Naturals) 2 X daily from ovulation to menstruation.

My multi is a good, whole foods prenatal and I cut it into 3rds for better absorbtion.
My B-complex has several vitamins in it and various amounts of each vitamin. I cut it into 3rds and take it with a meal as well. I found that I absorb more if I take it in smaller doses and even more if I take it with papaya enzyme which I take with my meals, and didn't want to take extra just for this pill.

The bulk of this is from TDC. The Zinc and Selenium are based on my test results. The hormones are also based on my test results. I decided dosage based on the information in Natural Hormone Balance for Women.

I swallow 25 pills (or fractions of pills) in a day. I HATE taking pills, so I had better see some results!


----------



## GoddessKristie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
DHEA came up very very weak (good thing I intuitively knew and stopped taking it last week.)

This didn't make sense to me. Is there something I don't understand about this test?


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
This didn't make sense to me. Is there something I don't understand about this test?

It is not a medical test. Here's some info. about applied kinesiology (or muscle testing.)
http://www.appliedkinesiology.com/


----------



## GoddessKristie

Oooooh! That makes more sense








This morning I had a crazy feeling after taking my first round of suppliments. I had a feeling almost like I was high. I was really giggly and very very happy and relaxed. After about an hour it evened out and I just felt really good and serene since then.
Is this a common reaction?


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
Oooooh! That makes more sense








This morning I had a crazy feeling after taking my first round of suppliments. I had a feeling almost like I was high. I was really giggly and very very happy and relaxed. After about an hour it evened out and I just felt really good and serene since then.
Is this a common reaction?

Man, I want what you're taking.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Man, I want what you're taking.









:


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
Oooooh! That makes more sense








This morning I had a crazy feeling after taking my first round of suppliments. I had a feeling almost like I was high. I was really giggly and very very happy and relaxed. After about an hour it evened out and I just felt really good and serene since then.
Is this a common reaction?

Could be the B vits - that's how I feel after I eat raw liver.

Dd1 ate some liver with me this afternoon & man, she was bouncing off the walls in a happy, giggly way. Definitely need to give the kids liver early in the day & only when they can get outside & run it off.


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Could be the B vits - that's how I feel after I eat raw liver.

Dd1 ate some liver with me this afternoon & man, she was bouncing off the walls in a happy, giggly way. Definitely need to give the kids liver early in the day & only when they can get outside & run it off.









Your kids eat raw liver? How did you do that?


----------



## GoddessKristie

I've been taking the B complex for two weeks now, so I don't think that was it. There's a lot of new stuff.
I'm glad that it's normal to feel that way, though. If you get it from liver it must not be a bad sign! I'll just go on and enjoy it


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Your kids eat raw liver? How did you do that?

Just Dd1, she's adventurous when it comes to food, like her mama. Now I'm going to play up how it gives her such a fun energy boost (it's not like the kids *need* a boost in energy, have mercy, but it was a very silly kind of energy that appeals to them.)

Dd2 doesn't like it raw, but likes pate - she's the only one of us who does.

Ds asks for raw liver when he sees me eating it, I put a piece in his mouth, he makes a face & spits it out.









I need to get more creative with the younger two.

Dd1 is the one who seems to have weakened adrenals though, so I'm happy that she's the one eating it.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
No sweat, Metasequoia! I have it from the local library. I like it, but because the chapters aren't listed by what the problem is I got confused alot (the mental fogginess I have didn't help) regarding what suppliment was for what problem. It took me a while to get it, which was frustrating, but I did eventually get it (it would have been easier if I could have marked the book up).
Natural Hormone Balance for women was much easier to read, but it's mostly hormone replacement. I felt that replacing the hormones I am deficient in would serve as a band-aid. I need a band-aid to function, but I don't want to be stuck taking hormones forever and I don't believe in just treating symptoms. So, I decided to use his recomendations and TDC recomendations so I can function now by supplimenting my deficiencies, but also heal my adrenals so I can stop taking the hormones eventually.

I went yesterday to get suppliments and I thought my DH was going to pass out. Here's my regimine:
Pantothenic Acid 500 mg breakfast
B1 150 mg breakfast lunch and dinner
DHEA 25 mg breakfast
Magnesium 500 mg breakfast 250mg lunch
Calcium 600 mg bedtime
B complex ?? See notes at the end
Vitamin C (with bios) 1000 mg breakfast and dinner
chromium 200 mg breakfast lunch and dinner
5-HTP (time release) 100 mg lunch (because of my 4pm rise in cortisol)
Pregnalone 20 mg breakfast
Zinc 25 mg lunch
Vit. E 400 IU lunch
selenium 200 mg lunch
Multivitamin ??? see notes at the end
Progesterone Cream (from Sourse Naturals) 2 X daily from ovulation to menstruation.

GK, can I ask why you're taking DHEA *and* pregnenolone?

Pregnenolone is the first hormone that our bodies make from cholesterol (at the top of the hormone "cascade.") It is then converted into other hormones, both sex & adrenal, including DHEA.


----------



## GoddessKristie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
GK, can I ask why you're taking DHEA *and* pregnenolone?

Pregnenolone is the first hormone that our bodies make from cholesterol (at the top of the hormone "cascade.") It is then converted into other hormones, both sex & adrenal, including DHEA.

In Natural Hormone Balance for Women, Reiss gives various symptoms and then makes suggestions for dosage based on those symptoms. Based on my symptoms he suggests starting with the maximum dosage of DHEA (because of the severity) and going down if symtoms of overdose appear. In the chapter of pregnenolone he says that many women with severe symptoms find that they need pregnenolone on top of the DHEA to bring them to a normal balance.
He suggests 50-100mg Pregnenolone (up to 250mg), so I am taking less than half that and hoping to find a boost in the begining. I should have the book in my posession tonight, so I'll be re-checking everything to make sure I have it all down right.
I was comfortable with this because I didn't have too much estradiol and my DHEAS was completely out of the normal range, and my testosterone was in the lower of normal range.

I do feel a little edgy, which can be a sign of too much pregnenalone. However, I spaced and had some soda about an hour ago, and caffeine is supposed to be a big no-no when you're taking hormones ( think Reiss said that?). It'd be great if I didn't have to take pregnenalone, so I'll try again tomorrow and be more careful about the caffeine. Then, I'll adjust if necessary.


----------



## forlovebaby

I hang out here to get motivation to take good care of myself.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

So is it pretty safe to assume that DHEA and pregnenalone are prescription only things?








How does one go about getting one's doctor to prescribe them? What tests do you ask for to see if your hormones are "out of whack"? Are those hormones tested in an Adrenal panel?


----------



## Periwinkle

How much (organic) liverwurst do you have to eat to equal a serving of liver? I can eat liverwurst all day long but only can tolerate liver when I'm pregnant. Whole family loves liverwurst in fact.


----------



## GoddessKristie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
So is it pretty safe to assume that DHEA and pregnenalone are prescription only things?







How does one go about getting one's doctor to prescribe them? What tests do you ask for to see if your hormones are "out of whack"? Are those hormones tested in an Adrenal panel?

I ordered my own hormone test through CanaryClub.org. There is a variety of tests, but I wasn't sure what my issue was so I ordered the combo panel which tests adrenal, thyroid, and sex hormones.
DHEA is available pretty much anywhere that sells vitamins, I got mine at GNC and pregnenalone is OTC as well. I got mine at Whole Foods.
I would not have felt comfortable taking any of these without my test results.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
I ordered my own hormone test through CanaryClub.org. There is a variety of tests, but I wasn't sure what my issue was so I ordered the combo panel which tests adrenal, thyroid, and sex hormones.
DHEA is available pretty much anywhere that sells vitamins, I got mine at GNC and pregnenalone is OTC as well. I got mine at Whole Foods.
I would not have felt comfortable taking any of these without my test results.

Neither would I, so your answer is perfect. Thanks.


----------



## GoddessKristie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Neither would I, so your answer is perfect. Thanks.









Glad I could help


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Periwinkle* 
How much (organic) liverwurst do you have to eat to equal a serving of liver? I can eat liverwurst all day long but only can tolerate liver when I'm pregnant. Whole family loves liverwurst in fact.

Nutritional data for:

Liverwurst

Raw liver

Looks like raw liver has a lot more B vits, particularly B12. So you'd get much more of a boost from the raw liver. It also has more minerals, especially a *ton* more copper, which might not be a good thing if you're deficient in zinc...

Liverwurst is mostly fat while raw liver is mostly protein.


----------



## Metasequoia

So, who's read Nicole's thread (ChristSavesAll) about thyroid, PPD & iodine?

Sheesh, I checked off about all of those thyroid symptoms, both hypo & hyper! Especially the "muscle pain & weakness, especially in upper arms & thighs" - that is my biggest complaint!! If I didn't have this chronic muscle pain, I might not feel like "there's something wrong with me." Well, there's always the brain fog...but maybe that's just mommy-brain.

Can I take iodine supps & risk dumping halides while bfing? What's this salt flush that Jane S. mentioned?

I've been adding kombu to soups, but maybe it's not enough. Perhaps I should have my iodine level tested... I need to bring this up with my ND when I see him. It's hard to tell how to "treat" since even according to my endocrinology-specializing-adrenal-treating-naturopath, my thyroid looks good. He does say that the thyroid is almost always affected in adrenal fatigue, even if it doesn't show - but I don't understand how to treat that - just iodine?


----------



## GoddessKristie

Hi again, Ladies!
I just wanted to stop in and give an update. Today marks the end of my first week with my new suppliments. I am amazed at the way I'm feeling! I cut out the pregnenalone after day 2 because I just wasn't feeling right. I'm about 75% normal now! I think I need to up my DHEA by about half, but so far so good.
For years I have felt like something was wrong with me, but because I have a horribly unsupportive family when it comes to this type of thing (only with me, surprisingly) I was convinced that it was all in my head. I have felt so guilty for the past ten years about being overweight and feeling lethargic all the time and it is amazing to have those years of guilt lifted. My first week on suppliments I lost 7lbs. I didn't change a single thing about my day. I continued taking afternoon naps, resting most of the day, and eating the same exact diet (I always thought it was rather healthy). And lo and behold, I adjust my hormones and the weight just starts to dissapear. I feel like I've lost 50lbs of guilt on top of the 7lbs of fat. I don't imagine it will continue to be this easy, but I am thankful for a smooth begining.
I have to say thank you to everyone who contributed anything to this thread. Were it not for this thread I would never have suspected that I was right about something being wrong with me (medically instead of personally), I would never have tested and I would not be headed toward a fuller life with better health.
So thank you, Thank You THANK YOU!







:







:







:







:







:







:







:







:


----------



## MyLittleWonders

: Kristie, what a wonderful update!!! Makes me wish I had good results with DHEA.


----------



## tanyalynn

Yay Kristie!


----------



## GoddessKristie

Thanks, ladies!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 







: Kristie, what a wonderful update!!! Makes me wish I had good results with DHEA.









It's really a shame the same thing can't work for everyone. It would be so easy that way.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
Thanks, ladies!

It's really a shame the same thing can't work for everyone. It would be so easy that way.

Hear, hear!


----------



## Annikate

Thanks for sharing your great news!







:


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Well, I decided to pull out my Iodoral today. I decided to start with half of a tablet for a while, see how I feel, and then up it as needed. I match the hypothyroid symptoms almost to a "T" and just do not have the money to get tested right now. So, I'm trying the Iodoral. I'm hoping it helps me feel better.


----------



## Lissybug

Hello- new here









I have a question- I have hypoglycemia, which i have managed poorly for way too long (and I've known I was hypoglycemic for over 20 years now.) It would seem like a given that my adrenals are fatigued right?

I am working on getting my blood sugar stable, but have been feeling so blech that it's difficult to make necessary changes, but I'm working on it and changing my diet and trying to be good to myself.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

I have a question: could undiagnosed, long-term hypothyroidism combined with undiagnosed estrogen dominance be an underlying cause of adrenal fatigue? And if so, could correcting those two issues help in healing the adrenals? Pretty please?!


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I have a question: could undiagnosed, long-term hypothyroidism combined with undiagnosed estrogen dominance be an underlying cause of adrenal fatigue? And if so, could correcting those two issues help in healing the adrenals? Pretty please?!









I think my adrenals started fatiguing first, as my detoxification started to get impaired, and I slowly ran out of nutrients for my thyroid and became hypo and my detoxification got worse yet (since there was a lot of overlap between the nutrients my thyroid needed and the nutrients needed to make glutathione and keep the other detox pathways functioning) and then I could see I couldn't detox my estrogen. But I think the more things we fix, the lighter the burden on the adrenals and the easier the path to healing. Especially that last sentence--really hoping that's how it's gonna work, cause I'm getting tired of this being tired thing.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

I think that there are precipitating factors to adrenal fatigue, sure. What exactly they are in each person is very difficult to say. I think those of us with mercury issues may very well have had "sub-clinical" problems with thyroid issues which have put a lot of stress on our adrenals... Although, mercury does also build up in the liver and stomach, so there are those considerations as well... Which came first? The chicken or the egg? The gut dysbiosis, the failure in liver detox or the nutrient imbalance? There are just so many contributing factors.
I believe that addressing the factors putting stress on the adrenals will go a long way in assisting them to heal, yes. But until you actually manage to address and heal those factors, your adrenals need everything you can give them.







It's important to remember, too, that your adrenals play a key role in healing and, if they're not working optimally, healing takes longer. And we (at least, I know I do) have SO MANY things going on.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I think my adrenals started fatiguing first, as my detoxification started to get impaired, and I slowly ran out of nutrients for my thyroid and became hypo and my detoxification got worse yet (since there was a lot of overlap between the nutrients my thyroid needed and the nutrients needed to make glutathione and keep the other detox pathways functioning) and then I could see I couldn't detox my estrogen. But I think the more things we fix, the lighter the burden on the adrenals and the easier the path to healing. *Especially that last sentence--really hoping that's how it's gonna work, cause I'm getting tired of this being tired thing.*

That makes sense too. Looking back, I cannot remember a time where overall I have felt the way I do today, and this is thinking back to my childhood. I think I have dealt with adrenal fatigue since a young child. I have also probably had a horrible gut since I was born. I have a feeling I have had hypothyroid issues for almost as long (my mom and her mom both have hypothyroidism). I could see how the adrenal issue causes a cascade of further issues and complications. I know as a child I should have been gluten free. From what I've been reading based on a link in the BH4/Ammonia thread, I probably have had issues digesting phenols most my life too. And







: to your last sentence that I bolded ... I am very tired of this being tired thing too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I think that there are precipitating factors to adrenal fatigue, sure. What exactly they are in each person is very difficult to say. I think those of us with mercury issues may very well have had "sub-clinical" problems with thyroid issues which have put a lot of stress on our adrenals... Although, mercury does also build up in the liver and stomach, so there are those considerations as well... Which came first? The chicken or the egg? The gut dysbiosis, the failure in liver detox or the nutrient imbalance? There are just so many contributing factors.
I believe that addressing the factors putting stress on the adrenals will go a long way in assisting them to heal, yes. But until you actually manage to address and heal those factors, your adrenals need everything you can give them.







It's important to remember, too, that your adrenals play a key role in healing and, if they're not working optimally, healing takes longer. *And we (at least, I know I do) have SO MANY things going on.*

This makes a lot of sense too. I was expecting mercury issues with me and my boys, but our tests seemed to be normal. But gut dysbiosis? Nutrient imbalance? Inability to digest and absorbe nutrients? Yep. That's me.







Add to that thyroid issues and hormone imbalance, I can see why I feel how I feel. I am just so ready to be well. I definitely don't plan on stopping my gazillion supplements any time soon. But I am hoping that the Iodoral and estrogen-dominance supplements will help take some burden off my adrenals. And, I am hoping that starting a phenol-addressing enzyme will help my gut. And another big







: to your last sentence. The more I learn, the more I learn how much I have going on, and how much it is all interrelated.


----------



## GoddessKristie

OMG, ladies. Since my last post I doubled the DHEA I was taking and started my progesterone cream, and Woah. I'm down a total of 21lbs today. I still haven't changed anything besides the hormones. I think my body is loving these things!
Even at 50mg I'm not experiencing any signs of overdose for DHEA, which according to Riess is oily skin, too much hair, and acne. My skin is actually still more dry than I would like it to be. I'm feeling better every day! I'm pleasantly surprised that I'm experiencing benefits so quickly. Do I dare hope it continues?

ETA: My DH has been commenting on how much I am able to do in a day now. The list still sounds pathetic, but it's a lot when you consider the fact I was stuck in a chair or bed all day for some time now. If my testosterone kicks in I think he'll be even happier


----------



## chlobo

Congratulations!

But if it makes me have more hair, forget about it. I"ve got enough. lol.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Congratulations!

But if it makes me have more hair, forget about it. I"ve got enough. lol.









:


----------



## GoddessKristie

HA HA! It only give you extra hair if you take too much. I hope I will start having symptoms of overdose eventually because that means my body is increasing it's own production. I do not want to suppliment forever.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lissybug* 
Hello- new here









I have a question- I have hypoglycemia, which i have managed poorly for way too long (and I've known I was hypoglycemic for over 20 years now.) It would seem like a given that my adrenals are fatigued right?

I am working on getting my blood sugar stable, but have been feeling so blech that it's difficult to make necessary changes, but I'm working on it and changing my diet and trying to be good to myself.

I would think so, but more I'd wonder why you're hypoglycemic to begin with. I don't know much about it, but in the past few years I've done a complete 180 turn from "this is just the way my body works" for various complaints to "what does my body need so that it works well."

It _is_ hard to make changes, I still struggle (thus it's quarter to 11 my time and I'm still on the computer), but I've seen improvements when I take care of myself. It's worth it.


----------



## HeatherB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
OMG, ladies. Since my last post I doubled the DHEA I was taking and started my progesterone cream, and Woah. I'm down a total of 21lbs today. I still haven't changed anything besides the hormones. I think my body is loving these things!
Even at 50mg I'm not experiencing any signs of overdose for DHEA, which according to Riess is oily skin, too much hair, and acne. My skin is actually still more dry than I would like it to be. I'm feeling better every day! I'm pleasantly surprised that I'm experiencing benefits so quickly. Do I dare hope it continues?

ETA: My DH has been commenting on how much I am able to do in a day now. The list still sounds pathetic, but it's a lot when you consider the fact I was stuck in a chair or bed all day for some time now. If my testosterone kicks in I think he'll be even happier









I'm so thrilled with your news! Congrats! It's very encouraging.









Can you remind me, are your supplements/dosages being prescribed by a physician, or did you figure them out yourself? I know I saw you did the testing panels, right? I'm waiting for a local naturopath to get back from maternity leave to start with the testing, etc.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Lissybug, have you ever had your vitamin D levels checked? From what I understand, if your vitamin D is low, you're more prone to blood sugar highs and lows.

ETA: Low calcium has been considered as a factor as well, fwiw.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Lissybug, have you ever had your vitamin D levels checked? From what I understand, if your vitamin D is low, you're more prone to blood sugar highs and lows.

ETA: Low calcium has been considered as a factor as well, fwiw.

Did not know this.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
HA HA! It only give you extra hair if you take too much. I hope I will start having symptoms of overdose eventually because that means my body is increasing it's own production. I do not want to suppliment forever.

Not necessarily true....some people are just really sensitive to it - that's why my ND prefers to use pregnenolone for women & DHEA for men. But I'm glad it's working for you!

Isn't chromium supposed to help with blood sugar stabilizing?


----------



## GoddessKristie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HeatherB* 
I'm so thrilled with your news! Congrats! It's very encouraging.









Can you remind me, are your supplements/dosages being prescribed by a physician, or did you figure them out yourself? I know I saw you did the testing panels, right? I'm waiting for a local naturopath to get back from maternity leave to start with the testing, etc.

Thank you! I did have testing panels, but I ordered them myself though Canary Club. The dosages and suppliments are all from two books. The hormones are from the book Natural Hormone Balance for Women. Most of the vitamins are from the book The Diet Cure. This book is about using diet and suppliments to heal your issues and Natual Hormone Balance for Women is about replacing the hormones you are deficient in. So, I replace them now as a band-aid to help me function and suppliment vitamins and minerals so my adrenals are healing and will hopefully catch up and I can start backing down on the hormone suppliments.
After recieving my test results I was able to look at these two books and get a comprehensive approach to healing my body. Half the battle was just knowing what was wrong and it was then easy to educate myself on just what I needed.
As an aside, I did cross-reference The Diet Cure with online sources to be sure that the vitamins and minerals that were suggested are beneficial for the reasons she says. I found no descrepencies. I also read about 8 different books about hormone therapies and found that these two were what I needed.


----------



## Theloose

Anyone know or want to research?

What is the upper limit on salt intake for us low aldosterone salt cravers? What's an idea dose? Obviously we need a lot, and obviously there's an upper limit (pound of salt, anyone?







). But what's a 'good' amount? And how variable is it by person?


----------



## HeatherB

Kristie, thanks so much for the info! I have The Mood Cure but need to check those two out. Even with exercise I have a very difficult time dropping weight, so I really suspect the adrenals/hormones are involved.

I'm really excited! I found out that my massage therapist can order the saliva tests, as well as some other panels, for me! Yay! It won't me nearly as expensive as going to a naturopath, and I can start sooner! I also don't feel quite as alone in working out treatment, though I'll still be researching myself. Oh, and she also told me about a local place to get raw milk, which is unrelated but also exciting.


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## tanyalynn

whoMe, I've seen recs ranging from 1/2 tsp to 1 tablespoon







per day (beyond normal salting of food). I haven't tried more than 1 tsp, maybe I should go higher but 1 tsp seems to make a real difference for me (I think I'm still in the middle of stage 5, fwiw). I'm assuming there's a lot of guess-and-check involved, I don't know a better approach.


----------



## Periwinkle

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Anyone know or want to research?

What is the upper limit on salt intake for us low aldosterone salt cravers? What's an idea dose? Obviously we need a lot, and obviously there's an upper limit (pound of salt, anyone?







). But what's a 'good' amount? And how variable is it by person?

I must have missed this earlier, but what is "low aldosterone" and how does this cause salt craving? I salt EVERYTHING... love love love it... and I've always figured if my body wants it, there must be a reason so I use a lot of it (a mix of Redmond's Real Salt & unrefined celtic sea salt). I have low blood pressure (110/55) so my doctor said essentially "go on with your bad self" re: my high salt intake. TIA...


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
whoMe, I've seen recs ranging from 1/2 tsp to 1 tablespoon







per day (beyond normal salting of food). I haven't tried more than 1 tsp, maybe I should go higher but 1 tsp seems to make a real difference for me (I think I'm still in the middle of stage 5, fwiw). I'm assuming there's a lot of guess-and-check involved, I don't know a better approach.

Maybe a dumb question but how does it make you feel better? What does it do for you?









Periwinkle, aldosterone is a steroid hormone which is produced by the adrenal glands. I'm not exactly certain of its function, but I think it has something to do with sodium/potassium regulation. whoMe can likely clarify that.


----------



## Theloose

Aldosterone is one of the adrenal hormones, and it's what tells your kidneys to hold on to sodium and dump potassium. It also regulates the sensitivity of your salt taste buds. So if you're in adrenal fatigue (low cortisol) chances are your aldosterone is low as well. If you're craving salt, chances are you need it.

When I don't get enough salt, I start getting lightheaded when I stand up, especially if it's when I'm working in the garden. If I try to exercise, I get really exhausted and feel totally out of shape. And drinking lots of water makes me feel kind of sick.

I generously salt my food, and really try to put as much into broth as I can - and broth holds a LOT! But I still find myself slowly slipping. So I'm thinking about adding salt almost as a supplement - like drinking salt water, just to make sure I'm staying on top of it.


----------



## dannic

Hmm, DH salts his water now. After reading about remineralizing ionized water, and he can retain alot more water--he doesn't have to use the bathroom immediately after drinking water. I had no idea this had to do with adrenals as well--altho, I've always suspected low adrenals for DH (he has been under chronic stress for three years now, and his family doesn't handle stress well, either...) Interesting...


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Maybe a dumb question but how does it make you feel better? What does it do for you?










It gives me more energy. If I don't do my shooter of salt every day, I tend to get dehydrated because I'm not really thirsty, water doesn't taste good. And it does seem to go right through me if I force myself to drink more than I want. So I think I was going around basically permanently dehydrated. I tried to do that salt flush, the one for halides, where you're supposed to drink 1/2 tsp of water plus a couple cups of water, wait a while (half an hour? not sure) and then do it again, and you're supposed to pee copiously. I failed. That's when I realized that I was chronically dehydrated--not bad enough to need medical attention, but it was affecting me.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Hmm. Maybe that's my issue.
I stopped doing my nightly salt water when I got pregnant. Blah blah blah. Fast forward. Still haven't started it up again. I've been peeing a LOT and I feel like I'm dying of thirst constantly. Although that may be partly due to eating dairy.








I'll start doing my salt water again and hopefully it'll help. If it doesn't, is there any chance it's just because I'm not using enough?
My normal blood pressure is usually about 110-112/62-68 if that tells you anything... Occasionally lately it has been 122/68 though.


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## tanyalynn

Jacqueline, for better or worse, when I drink my salt every day, my BP goes down about 5 points systolic and diastolic. I used to have BP around 100 or 110 over something reasonable, I don't really understand why, but it's gone down (separate from the salt, I mean). Going down when I drink my salt is repeatable too, I skipped days off and on to see if it was just a fluke, and nope. I'm thinking my new, very low blood pressure (about 90/60), isn't good probably due to physical stress these past few months plus not doing enough of the adrenal-friendly lifestyle things I should be. I'm working on turning that around.


----------



## dannic

You know, I have low blood pressure too...I always have (at least since kiddoes). My midwife thinks it's too low...


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
You know, I have low blood pressure too...I always have (at least since kiddoes). My midwife thinks it's too low...

Well, given all the thread overlap you have with many of us, is it really a surprise?


----------



## Annikate

You guys are inspiring me to do the salt in the morning again. Is there a good reason to do it at night vs. in the morning?

I know that I need it more during ovulation time and just before AF arrives. The rest of the month I seem okay.

I, too, believe I'm chronically dehydrated. What helps me absorb the water better is either buying alkaline water or getting the alkaline drops. It makes it taste much better imo too.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Well, given all the thread overlap you have with many of us, is it really a surprise?









Hah. So true.









ETA: I just had a "vision" of an MDC web in my head showing each person's threads and where they overlap.


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## tanyalynn

Annikate, I take mine whenever I remember.


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## Annikate

Do you guys ever feel like you're finally doing much better and WHAM! you're tired, SO tired again and are wondering what's up?

Well, I think I figured out (at least in part) why this is happening to me. I just got my test results in the mail that were ordered by the new doc. (Not the ND I saw before) - - and my ferratin levels are 7. The range is from 10-232.

This site says you want them in the 50s.

So I think that explains some of this.

I don't consult w/the doc until Wednesday about all the rest of it, but at least I could quickly interpret that myself and I do have some iron here so I'm going to be taking it.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Well, I decided to try a salt flush today. I hope I am remembering it right because I couldn't remember which thread it was in (the link) so this is what I did: 1/4 tsp. of salt plus 16 ounces of water (I ate the salt and then drank the water), every 15 minutes for a total of 3 times. (I couldn't remember if I was supposed to do it 3 or 4 times). About 20-25 minutes after the last dose, I had to go to the bathroom, but it was just a normal amount (not anything huge that I would expect after drinking 48 ounces of water in less than an hour. So, does that mean I'm pretty much deficient in salt?


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Do you guys ever feel like you're finally doing much better and WHAM! you're tired, SO tired again and are wondering what's up?

Well, I think I figured out (at least in part) why this is happening to me. I just got my test results in the mail that were ordered by the new doc. (Not the ND I saw before) - - and my ferratin levels are 7. The range is from 10-232.

This site says you want them in the 50s.

So I think that explains some of this.

I don't consult w/the doc until Wednesday about all the rest of it, but at least I could quickly interpret that myself and I do have some iron here so I'm going to be taking it.

Very interesting. I have always suspected/wondered about anemia for myself. But I don't think I have ever had it checked (I can't remember). Every now and then I pull out the molasses and take a tablespoon for a few days in a row. Maybe I'll start doing that again. Hopefully one day again I'll have the money to do any testing (I guess I could go to a regular MD and have regular blood tests ran ... those should be covered by insurance (well, up to a point; I think we have so much percentage out of pocket - I should look into it though)).


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Well, I decided to try a salt flush today. I hope I am remembering it right because I couldn't remember which thread it was in (the link) so this is what I did: 1/4 tsp. of salt plus 16 ounces of water (I ate the salt and then drank the water), every 15 minutes for a total of 3 times. (I couldn't remember if I was supposed to do it 3 or 4 times). About 20-25 minutes after the last dose, I had to go to the bathroom, but it was just a normal amount (not anything huge that I would expect after drinking 48 ounces of water in less than an hour. So, does that mean I'm pretty much deficient in salt?

Interesting. I'm betting I'd react the same way. If you find the link will you pls. post it here?


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## tanyalynn

MLW, that sounds pretty similar to my experience. I console myself by thinking that hey, if I'm (now) adding this much salt to my food, surely I'm getting rid of lots of halides every day! Right? Right?

Annikate, when my ferritin was 71, both my sorta-normal doc and my real HCP wanted me to take an iron supp for a while to see if it helped with my fatigue. So your 7 seems really low.

eta: http://drshevin.com/patient_educatio...giene/salt.php
the first link that says 1/4 tsp, the other one just said that some people have better, faster results with 1/2 tsp

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/b...trategies.html
That's the 2nd one that says 1/2 tsp, off to the side I think


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Annikate, when my ferritin was 71, both my sorta-normal doc and my real HCP wanted me to take an iron supp for a while to see if it helped with my fatigue. So your 7 seems really low.

Yeah and the iron supp I have (left over from when my dd took it) is only 25 mg per capsule. I think I'd need the whole bottle!







j/k

My SIL is going through a similar thing - her levels were 5 and are now only 8 after months and months of supplementing. And at one time she was taking 700 mg per day!


----------



## Panserbjorne

Annikate, that is terribly low. Like, how in the world are you functioning low. Hugs, mama.

For anyone testing you often have to ask specifically for ferritin to be tested, not just "can we test for anemia?" Not all docs will run ferritin tests with that request...but they should all run them if you ask specifically.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
Annikate, that is terribly low. Like, how in the world are you functioning low. Hugs, mama.

For anyone testing you often have to ask specifically for ferritin to be tested, not just "can we test for anemia?" Not all docs will run ferritin tests with that request...but they should all run them if you ask specifically.

I know!







Is it any wonder I'm still freaking exhausted?








I was just thinking about you today too.


----------



## chlobo

I often wonder what I'm still running on. I guess that's why we're all here, to figure it out.

So my ferritin level was 26. Of course it's in range but its really the low end of the range. Should it be higher?


----------



## lil_miss_understood

I think I read something about vitamin D having iron binding effects... As in, vitamin D is needed in order to convert iron into it's storage form (ferritin).
No time to go Googling right now, I've been wasting all day on the computer.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
I often wonder what I'm still running on. I guess that's why we're all here, to figure it out.

So my ferritin level was 26. Of course it's in range but its really the low end of the range. Should it be higher?

Yes!


----------



## Shazer

Hi, I just added a thread about my diagnosis and Tanya was kind enough to point out this thread.

Here is my info:
I've followed a lower-carb natural foods diet for about six years and cured a bunch of my PCOS symptoms with it. I've avoided grains, sugar, and refined foods in favor of meat, fat, and vegetables. I became pregnant three years ago and added some sprouted grains into my diet. My pregnancy was awesome (except for the birth but that is another story), but DD developed food sensitivities from my breast milk. I cut out dairy immediately, and ended up cutting out nuts, starches, even sprouted grains. Once everything was cut out, DD did well and eventually I added everything back but the grains. I still breastfeed DD a little bit and eat lots of fruits, not as many vegetables as I should given that it is hard to get organic stuff around here, and a lot of eggs, pastured meats, and pastured dairy.

I've been tired since DD was born. She only recently started sleeping through the night and she is over two. So I've been very tired for two years. Some of my PCOS symptoms have come back like hair loss and unwanted hair growth elsewhere. But my periods are totally normal, and no blood sugar issues.

I found a holistic doctor and he ran all kinds of blood work on me. For the IgG ELISA food test, some foods are elevated like almonds, garlic, egg whites, egg yolks, yeast, and cow's milk. But there are no allergies. My cholesterol is high. HDL is very high, but that is fine. LDL is a bit elevated, too. Other metabolic tests came back normal. My fasting blood sugar was higher than it used to be at 90 mg/dl.

My cortisol levels are well below normal, leading to the adrenal fatigue diagnosis from the doctor.

This holistic doctor has advised me to read up on adrenal fatigue (yay for a doctor who wants patients to read and ask questions) start eating more plant products, less animal products. He likes shakes for vitamin/mineral supplementation. His favorite is Reliv. I asked if these shakes were soy based, and he said "Yes." He then went on about how he has reviewed the Weston A. Price research versus pro-soy research, and he thinks soy is a health food. I asked about the phytoestragens, and he said they are a good thing. This runs counter to everything I've deduced over the past six years.

So here I am knowing that I need to change some things, but not comfortable with introducing large quantities of soy or any soy for that matter. I'm of Scandinavian/German/Celtic descent and would prefer following a traditional ancestral diet rather than introduce soy based shakes or other modern foods.

I probably need to add more carbs into my diet, and eliminate eggs and dairy since I showed a slight sensitivity. I used to be insulin resistant prior to going low-carb, and fear that return if I have too many carbs, especially starchy stuff like potatoes. I love pastured butter and put it on everything. Honestly, I can't stand coconut oil.

Now that DD is sleeping through the night, I should probably start playing catch-up on sleep by going to bed earlier.

For supplements, my head is spinning. There seem to be quite a lot of options for AF. I'm visiting a Whole Foods this Thursday and can get stuff there.

It seems like salt helps a lot of people on this board. Is there anything I'm missing? I know I have a lot of reading to do, which seems really daunting right now given the amount of work I have to do for a number of projects.


----------



## Annikate

Wow, Sharon,
Relive is the product my SIL (the one I mentioned above w/the low iron levels too) uses too. She just told me about it today.

I struggle w/the soy thing too. I'm still on the fence. I know my dd reacts to it, and, knowing what I know about WAP I have always shied away from it myself.

Welcome to our thread.


----------



## Lissybug

Hello-
I just went to my ND this morning and she recommended I do an Adrenal Stressors Index test. Is this the same saliva test I've seen mentioned in this thread a few times? (I have by NO means read the entire thread, heh) So I'll be picking that up to do in a few days. I'm very curious to see what it shows.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

So, a question regarding the salt flush: if I basically "failed" it in that I was simply rehydrating myself (dh failed too, though we knew that would happen), should we do it every day until we reach a point where we actually do pee copious amounts, thus signifying that we are finally reaching a point of healthy hydration? Should we instead spread it out over a day (say 1/4 teaspoon of salt plus 16 ounces of water every 3 hours)? I know I am dehydrated and I know that no matter how much water I have ever consumed in a day has done nothing to help (maybe this is why the constant headaches, dry lips, dry skin, dry sinus cavities, etc). What is the best way to go about this?


----------



## Pookietooth

I would question any doctor who tells you you must eat his way, rather than trying to work with your current diet to modify it slightly. Especially since it looks like the shake he is recommending is one of those MLM schemes. And it's soy protein isolate, which is problematic according to a lot of people, not just Weston Price people. As far as soy in general, I have been thinking about it -- the women at The Farm in Tennessee (where Ina May Gaskin lives) all eat tons of soy, since it's a vegan commune, and they seem ok. But personally, I can't eat it -- it is a migraine trigger for me, so I have that excuse. Women with PCOs actually use soy protein like clomid, to trigger ovulation (I tried, and after suffering from major migrines, I found it useless, but then clomid never worked for me either). I also know someone, who was a vegan for quite a while, who was diagnosed with advanced breast cancer (while she was nursing her baby, who was nine months at the time), who was told to avoid soy by her cancer doctors because of the estrogen in it. She had estrogen-sensitive breast cancer, and apparently soy makes it grow faster. So much for the China study, which said soy didn't make mouse liver tumors grow but casien did. Obviously not all tumors are the same. I'm surprised he wasn't willing to have you try another protein, such as hemp, pea or rice. I would go with what you feel is right.
Personally, I prefer to vary one or two things at a time to see what works, not a complete change like that. Reducing your intake of the things you tested sensitive may be enough. And remember that different tests often find different things. And that elimination and challenging is a far more accurate test of sensitivity than a blood test.
How are your triglycerides? That would be a clue about insulin resistance (I have PCOS too).







to you.


----------



## tanyalynn

MLW, fwiw, I've decided that since I need the sodium every day, and I think it's the chloride half that helps excrete halides, I'm just going to assume I'm giving the halides plenty of ways to get out just by taking my 1 tsp/day plus salting foods.

You were having some issues adding in iodine, right? Hmm.... I never did, I read a theory that it's because my diet was so high in processed foods for years, I ate tons of salt unintentionally and that moderated the amount of halides I've built-up. I was happy cause hey, sometimes sloth and ignorance work out for us, and mostly they haven't for me, so this is nice.







Maybe delay the iodine for a while, maybe a month? And take extra salt on a daily basis, and then re-try the iodine? That's totally a guess, I really don't know if it would work.

I think the salt is making me feel better because it's making my body work better, so I'm taking the salt daily for that. Did you mean try to do the flush every day? I'm getting organized this week to take the kids out of town for almost 2 weeks, so I don't think I'm going to be playing with the amt of salt I take until after all that, but I've wondered if I'd do better with more than 1 teaspoon. Maybe you should play around with that?


----------



## Theloose

Tanya, your post reminded me - kidneys have a certain rate that they filter things. Too fast and you start losing things you want, too slow and you reabsorb things you don't want. Salt is one of the very few things that actually affects that filtration rate. I wonder if that's part of why it's making you feel better, it's helping you excrete stuff? I also wonder if I can use that as motivation to do some salty brine shots each morning...


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
MLW, fwiw, I've decided that since I need the sodium every day, and I think it's the chloride half that helps excrete halides, I'm just going to assume I'm giving the halides plenty of ways to get out just by taking my 1 tsp/day plus salting foods.

You were having some issues adding in iodine, right? Hmm.... I never did, I read a theory that it's because my diet was so high in processed foods for years, I ate tons of salt unintentionally and that moderated the amount of halides I've built-up. I was happy cause hey, sometimes sloth and ignorance work out for us, and mostly they haven't for me, so this is nice.







Maybe delay the iodine for a while, maybe a month? And take extra salt on a daily basis, and then re-try the iodine? That's totally a guess, I really don't know if it would work.

I think the salt is making me feel better because it's making my body work better, so I'm taking the salt daily for that. Did you mean try to do the flush every day? I'm getting organized this week to take the kids out of town for almost 2 weeks, so I don't think I'm going to be playing with the amt of salt I take until after all that, but I've wondered if I'd do better with more than 1 teaspoon. Maybe you should play around with that?

I don't know if I was having issues adding iodine. I did start slowly (well, what I would consider slowly - I did 1/2 a tab of Iodoral for a week and then went up to 1 full tab; now I'm debating 1 1/2 a day for a while to see if I need more). Though I'm not sure if I know what to look for in terms of symptoms of doing too much iodine too quickly. I know I have never been a big salt person, and reading up on bromine issues, they seem to match the symptoms of other things I am dealing with also, so who knows how it is all connected.

If I did the salt flush every day, I'd end up taking 3/4's of a teaspoon of salt a day. Yesterday I added another 1/4 teaspoon later in the day and I think I actually felt a little better. But, it may be the extra B's I'm taking too (I'm doing 1 of the Thorne B Complex #6 plus 1 of the RAW Vitamin Code B's). Or, if it is the iodine slowly starting to take affect. Or if it is all of it together.

This morning I decided on doing the flush again (3/4's teaspoon, this time I think it was spread out more like 20 minutes apart with 16 ounces of water each time) and again did not need to use the bathroom any more than normal. Since I don't usually salt our food (the boys love to eat salt too, so I've been giving them probably a total of 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon throughout the course of a day), I think if I consciously do 3/4 teaspoon in the morning and then one or two more servings later in the day, I might be doing pretty well.


----------



## Slingin'Momto4

Hi everyone!
This thread is VERY informative. I have been feeling "off" for quite a while now and I am going to the docs on Friday and ordering every blood test available. There is no naturopath doc around me at all but I feel that this is what I have been suffering from







Here are my symptoms tell me what you think.

-Exhaustion
-headache-all day/everyday
-Inability to fall asleep
-not staying asleep
-burst of energy in the early evening lasting only about 2-3 hrs
-mild mood issues
-hip pain
-get stressed super easy and can't handle it to well
-naseousness throughout the day
-water tastes nasty but force myself to drink because its good for you and I feel thirsty constantly
-low blood pressure-doc said woohoo...thats great...lol! 90/60 was what it was the last time.
-had blood taken and I had high potassium levels but never went back to get retested.
-brain fog
-forgetfullness
-low sex drive
-generally yucky feeling

What do you think? Could that be it or is it something else?

Thanks for this thread but I can't even concentrate enough to read it


----------



## Metasequoia

Sounds like adrenal fatigue, or thyroid or serotonin deficiency - all of which go hand in hand...

Man, I am BEAT! Beat I say! I had to wake up at 5am on Monday to sign us up for Y classes. My sister was in labor all night & I was going to be present ofr her homebirth. So I was up all day at her house, supporting her & she had the baby at 12:50 am on 5/19 (yesterday.) I didn't get home until 4am, so I was up for 23 hours straight! I was still going on adrenaline when I woke up at 9am yesterday & then cooked food for her all day yesterday (she's vegan so I'm trying to get as much good stuff into her as possible - lots of soaked quinoa, coconut milk & oil, avocados, etc.) I took her food over & ended up staying with her & the baby until after 9pm & by then the exhaustion had hit. I was so tired I was dizzy. I didn't get to bed last night until 10pm & then I had to wake at 5am again to sign up for the non-aquatic classes at the Y. I am feeling awful. I have a headache that won't quit & am just really run down. I think I need to go to bed tonight at 7pm & hopefully sleep until at least 8am.
But man, the high from a birth is just amazing. It's like eating liver!


----------



## Metasequoia

Oh, I meant to add - before my sister's birth, I had been feeling *very* calm & good - lots of energy & just feeling really good. I started ACE sublingual drops a couple of weeks ago & I started a multi-mineral supp last week & have also been taking *a lot* of magnesium citrate (powder form.) I don't know if it was one of these things or a combo, but I was loving the calm feeling. I can't wait until I can catch up on some rest & feel better again so I can achieve that calmness & energy once again.


----------



## Shazer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
I would question any doctor who tells you you must eat his way, rather than trying to work with your current diet to modify it slightly. Especially since it looks like the shake he is recommending is one of those MLM schemes. . . .

This is the only holistic doctor around, which means I have to drive probably 1.5 hours or more to find someone else. My body doesn't need some powdered junk to heal. My body needs real minerals and vitamins from real foods. Suggesting I switch my organic pastured meats out in favor of questionable soy seems just silly.

After doing some reading, I decided to add complex carbs to every meal and snack. I've been so worried since curing my insulin resistance with a low-carb diet about redeveloping insulin resistance, that I've been lower-carb for years. In two days of upping my carbs, I feel really tired and even zonked out during DD's naptime. This is probably a good thing because I've been so short on sleep the past two years, and resting will certainly benefit me.

What irks me, is that I had PCOS symptoms at puberty and my pediatrician did nothing. I was diagnosed at age 23 only after finding an endocrinologist who specializes in PCOS. Now reading up on AF, I realize that I've had some of these symptoms since a teenager as well.


----------



## Annikate

I had my consult.







Apparently I'm not a good methylator. Surprise, surprise. He wanted me to do B12 injections but I was like, uh. nope. No can do. So I'm going to do a transdermal cream.

Glutathione is next. Which I suspected I needed. Good thing is, my dd is on both of those so we can share. And she's thrilled about that.









Iron.

And bioidenticals. Apparently I'm not anemic and so the low ferritin count wouldn't necessarily cause the fatigue I feel, but getting my hormones under control will. I'm all for that.









And, a custom amino blend.

Hooray! I have a plan. And I feel SUCH relief in just knowing that.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

nak
remind me with whom the consult was, annikate?


----------



## GoddessKristie

This week was my first period since starting my suppliments, and it was wierd. I was wondering if anyone else had a strange period after replacing hormones. I'm not sure what it means. I started feeling on Monday as though I might be getting a yeast infection. On Monday night I put in a suppository (yay Yeast Guard!), and saw the first signs of blood then. On Tuesday I had a regular flow, pretty normal for the first day for me. Then, today I had almost nothing. Just some spots, barely enough to color my urine. I'm worried about this because I don't want to be making my reproductive system any worse.
Did anyone else experience something similar?


----------



## tanyalynn

I've had times when my cycle has sort of sputtered in a start, stop, start pattern. For me, and I have no idea how representative this is for other people, it seems to be partly a function of how bad my adrenals are and how my thyroid's doing. When my thyroid was bad, I had a fairly normal cycle, but when my thyroid improved and my adrenals hadn't, then I had the funky start-stop-start thing. I think it takes a while to see improvement in adrenals, so I wouldn't necessarily assume it's a bad thing. I saw thyroid improvement quickly with supps, 2 weeks, so maybe something else is changing faster than your adrenals?


----------



## GoddessKristie

Tanya, I'm relieved to hear that. It's quite possibly the same situation for me. Here's what the DR wrote in the notes on my test results:

Quote:

Because T4 is within normal range this suggests poor hepatic
conversion of T4 to T3. This may be caused by nutrient deficiency (e.g., zinc and/or selenium), low hGH (low IGF-1), heavy
metal toxicity, liver dysfunction, or steroid hormone imbalances (high estradiol, low progesterone, low testosterone, low or high
cortisol).
I've been supplimenting with zinc and slenium, DHEA (for testosterone which was low) and using a progesterone cream during my luteal phase (progesterone was also low-this was the first time). All of that may have corrected my thyroid issue and left my Adrena's behind.

Thanks, I'd love to hear what others think about this too.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
nak
remind me with whom the consult was, annikate?

Actually my girls' DAN doc. He does biomedical treatments.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoddessKristie* 
This week was my first period since starting my suppliments, and it was wierd. I was wondering if anyone else had a strange period after replacing hormones. I'm not sure what it means. I started feeling on Monday as though I might be getting a yeast infection. On Monday night I put in a suppository (yay Yeast Guard!), and saw the first signs of blood then. On Tuesday I had a regular flow, pretty normal for the first day for me. Then, today I had almost nothing. Just some spots, barely enough to color my urine. I'm worried about this because I don't want to be making my reproductive system any worse.
Did anyone else experience something similar?

Yes, I have this but it's not from replacing hormones, it's just naturally messed up.









My period starts, stops for a day and starts again and has for a year or more. I read somewhere that this is a symptom of AF.







:


----------



## sbgrace

I was told Tuesday that I likely have thyroid (T3?) or adrenal issues (or both I guess). I know I have hormonal problems including low progesterone. I know I have vitamin D deficiency. I know I have coq10 deficiency. My thyroid levels my doctor ran last year were normal or I was told they were anyway.

I wondered if some of you could answer a few questions for me. I'm really lost/didn't see this coming. I was just looking for something we may have missed (my health completley fell apart a year ago in some pretty scary ways). Adrenal problems was mentioned to me earlier but we had just found out about the other deficiencies and so it seemed likely to me I had my answer.

But my questions:
1. I need to do a saliva test. I take melatonin and someone told me it can affect cortisol function. I am thinking, though, I may want to keep taking it as I take it every night to sleep. Don't I want an accurate picture of things? Or maybe I won't need it when we address whatever is going on. The doctor said it doesn't interfere with the lab. I honestly need it to sleep at night.

2. Is this possibly why I'm having such a horrible time with sleep. I'm exhausted all morning and even take a long nap most days (10-1). Then I do ok until late afternoon/early evening. My kids go down and I'm ok and then tired and then suddenly completely awake around 11. If I go to bed early (in that evening lull) I suddenly wake up at 11 and nothing gets me back to sleep. If I skip the nap I'm even worse and all my neuro and nerve things act up. The night is my highest energy point in the day. I sleep like absolute junk most of the night. Does that sound familiar to anyone? I should mention I also found out Tuesday that I have sleep apnea..found on a test late last year that my (gonna be former







: ) doctor told me was "a little abnormal but not enough to cause your symptoms". The report said I needed a machine to keep my airway open. I'm really irritated the doctor withheld that information given how sick I have been.

3. Does this have anything to do with my vitamin D levels?

4. Is T3 different than the thyroid panel the regular doctor ran last year?

I'd love any thoughts.

Oh, another thing. Ever since the appointment I actually feel worse! I had been doing better as I'm improving my Vitamin D and co-q-10 levels. I think it's all mental. Maybe I'm a little depressed to find out something else might be wrong and maybe I'm feeling guilty that I was probably sick in yet another way during the pregnancy with my kids.


----------



## GoddessKristie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Yes, I have this but it's not from replacing hormones, it's just naturally messed up.









My period starts, stops for a day and starts again and has for a year or more. I read somewhere that this is a symptom of AF.







:

Until this period mine were nearly perfect. 4 or 5 days, med. flow the first 3 or 4 and light for the last. 26 day cycles, rarely had cramps. This one I had cramping and it was only one regular flow day and one very very light flow day. Still 26 days. I guess I'll just assume it's normal.
Thanks a bunch ladies







I was scared that I had messed things up further.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

I think a lot of us are "night owls" because our cortisol's messed up.
T3 should have been one of the tests ordered on your panels last year. Usually it's TSH, FreeT4 and FreeT3, if I'm not mistaken.
As you address your vitamin D deficiency, a LOT of things are going to change, I would think. Vitamin D is what is used to produce cholesterol which is basically used to produce every other hormone your body makes...

Not sure if any of that's helpful, sbgrace.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Actually my girls' DAN doc. He does biomedical treatments.

Yes, I have this but it's not from replacing hormones, it's just naturally messed up.









My period starts, stops for a day and starts again and has for a year or more. I read somewhere that this is a symptom of AF.







:

This is me, and has been since about the time of my first ppd cycle after ds#3 (about 1 1/2 years ago). I didn't realize it was related to adrenals until very, very recently.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbgrace* 
Maybe I'm a little depressed to find out something else might be wrong and maybe I'm feeling guilty that I was probably sick in yet another way during the pregnancy with my kids.

Try not to do the guilt. It's hard when you feel bad to keep a good attitude about things, but try not to get bogged down by this. Thing is--it's not like you did anything deliberately to hurt your kids, and you weren't even negligent about things you _should've_ known. None of this stuff is common knowledge, and you're working your rear off for your boys now. They are lucky to have you. Seriously.

I had to get past some guilt as well, I think we've been on enough common threads that you know what's going on with me and my kids. And it's really not my fault. I didn't have a lot of clues back then--the stress of pregnancy and nursing took a big toll on me, and you've had extra stressors beyond that--and it's just not common knowledge that some of the subtle symptoms are actually important clues.

Substantially--T4 to T3 conversion (T3 is the form of thyroid hormone your body actively uses) is dependent of on selenium status. And that varies depending on soil/food supply, and your nutrition/gut health and how much you need. Sometimes docs won't run free-T3 and free-T4, or if they do and you're in the normal range, you'll hear everything is fine, but people who feel good are in the top third of the reference range for each of those. I know I felt like death warmed over when my TSH rose from 1.05 to 1.55, and 1.55 probably wouldn't flag as a problem for anyone (and none of my old docs ran the frees).

Your energy highs and lows sound just like me. That's classic for adrenal issues, and it is _so_ hard to live like that. I'd say stay with the melatonin, I've been able to see how I'm doing, basically, just with symptoms so I haven't tested, but I wouldn't want to/be willing to give up my melatonin.

Adrenal hormones and vitamin D and cholesterol and progesteron are all chemically related. I'm low in everything, but I know some people can have just a few of those low.

The lifestyle stuff, cutting out caffeine/extra sugar (I can't even attempt all sugar, not yet anyway), protein with breakfast and frequent snacks, those things all helped, but when I first figured out I had more going on, and that it was going to be a long-haul to get better, and really had to accept that my body was messed up, I felt worse for a few weeks. Even my HCP was worried at first, I felt like a mac truck had run over me for 2-3 weeks, and then I actually started slowly getting more energy and doing a bit better. For me part of it was acknowledging that I didn't have a problem that would be all gone in 6 months, and telling myself that it was okay to slow down, I _needed_ to slow down and baby myself for quite a while. Mentally that was a big change, and I think that internal tension releasing was important for me getting better, but that's why I felt totally wiped out for a few weeks. Try to roll with it if you can.


----------



## Annikate

Well, doh!

Looks like I will not be getting bioidenticals after all. Which I wasn't sure I wanted anyway.

The test results my doc interpreted based on blood work I had taken *while* I was taking the DHEA supplement and I totally forgot to remind him that I had been taking it. (It was given to me by a different doc several months ago.)

I stopped that DHEA a few weeks ago after figuring out that it was making me feel worse instead of better.

I am glad I caught this though. Holy cow, imagine the mess I could have been in?


----------



## Annikate

sbgrace, I have had to get past the guilt thing too. Guilt. What a terrible thing.

You know, we are all so very fortunate to be taking the path to wellness right now. *That* is what counts.

Think of it: many *many* people go through their whole lives feeling terrible and have no idea how or even why they should (or that they can ) fix it.


----------



## lablover

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
My period starts, stops for a day and starts again and has for a year or more. I read somewhere that this is a symptom of AF.

Does anyone know where I can find it written that this is a symptom of AF? I read it on a website a long time ago but I can't figure out where I saw it. I've had this for years and years, and it's gotten worse in the last year - starts and stops twice, which really prolongs the duration. The integrative doctor I saw yesterday had never heard of anyone having this problem, and she really didn't think I had symptoms of AF, which I disagree with. I'll start a separate post on that.


----------



## Annikate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lablover* 
Does anyone know where I can find it written that this is a symptom of AF? I read it on a website a long time ago but I can't figure out where I saw it. I've had this for years and years, and it's gotten worse in the last year - starts and stops twice, which really prolongs the duration. The integrative doctor I saw yesterday had never heard of anyone having this problem, and she really didn't think I had symptoms of AF, which I disagree with. I'll start a separate post on that.

I think it was here. Link doesn't seem to be working though.

I'm pretty sure that someone here posted the link where I read it though, so if it wasn't that one, maybe someone else knows.


----------



## sbgrace

Thanks for your thoughts. It's actually comforting (if sad) to know that others have felt the way I'm feeling emotionally. Made me tear up actually.

I feel like I don't know enough yet to contribute much but I'm learning a lot just reading through this thread!

I think I saw a link on the AF stuff last night. I'll see if I can find it again. It fits me especially in the last few months so it stuck in my mind. Do you think progesterone levels are tied in with that perhaps? I also attributed my spotting start, stop, spotting start, stop, pattern as part of progesterone deficiency. And I think progesterone is tied to adrenal fatigue if I'm reading this correctly. I'm going to keep looking but all I can find is heavy, stop for a day or two, then start again which isn't what you're talking about I don't think?


----------



## WuWei

This is my Cliff's Notes to thyroid stuff:

This post has more info about T3 and T4 testing and meds. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...6&postcount=94

Here is "Recommended Labwork": http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...ended-labwork/

Mistakes Patients Make: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...patients-make/

This post is about the nutritional issues and thyroid function.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...9&postcount=68
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=285
This is a list of supplements and how they function in the body. http://ithyroid.com/supplement_list.htm

I always recommend whole foods for nutritional support. Check the site "World's Healthiest Foods". It lists each of those nutrients and the foods most dense with that nutrient. http://www.whfoods.com/nutrientstoc.php Also, elimination of specific foods: cabbage, peaches, radishes, soy, peanuts, spinach and rutabagas which can interfere with thyroid hormone production.

Most of our diets are depleted in magnesium. We use Natural Calm. It is most bio-available. You want magnesium citrate. We also supplement with CLO for Vit A and Omega 3, zinc, selenium and iodine and B-vitamins, vit C, iron. I eat my two Brazil nuts (maximum, cause more can be too much selenium). And other food sources for the nutrients. Here is a list of nutrients to be sure are adequate in your diet: http://webhome.idirect.com/~wolfnowl/thyroid13.htm Hormones are also influenced greatly by the types of fats you eat. You need healthy saturated fats (avocado and coconut), and essential fatty acids: cod liver oil.

Iodine supplementation is another avenue to research: http://www.iodine4health.com/disease/disease.htm Here is more info about this important nutrient: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=272 Kelp is the seaweed highest in iodine and for example, you would need approx. 1 teaspoon a day of www.seaveg.com kelp to get 12.5 mg. Iodized salt is not a good source. Real sea salt is good but not sufficient. Selenium in conjunction is important.

*Adrenal fatigue is also interconnected with stress, cortisol exhaustion, and thyroid levels.*

I'd also strongly recommend seeing a classical homeopath. Homeopathy can help to address hormonal balance.

My (limited) understanding is that the _blood test_ for thyroid function is not as accurate for *bio-available* levels of thyroid function. See this old post of mine with more info: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=984

The recommendation is to have **saliva* testing* done for progesterone estrogen, testosterone, cortisol, AND thyroid.

The hormones are interconnected. Basically, the thyroid, progesterone, estrogen, testosterone and cortisol levels *all need to be evaluated*, as they change over the course of day.

Also, evening primrose and magnesium help with hormonal balance. Gut health is important to nutrient absorption which impacts hormone production and weight gain, new studies show.

So, I'd start with the *"Healing The Gut-cheat sheet"* at the top of the forum. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=434071

I don't do guilt, lol. So, I can't speak to that. I can only know what I know and even that changes.









Pat


----------



## lablover

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbgrace* 
I'm going to keep looking but all I can find is heavy, stop for a day or two, then start again which isn't what you're talking about I don't think?

That's exactly what I'm looking for. I experience heavy/normal for 2 1/2 days, abrupt stop for 24 hrs (now even up to 48 hrs), then start again.


----------



## sbgrace

http://www.drlam.com/articles/adrenal_fatigue.asp
Here's one link which is the one I found last night. I did a google after you posted (I did: adrenal fatigue +period +stop +heavy) There were lots. A lot did say stop on fourth day though.

The pattern you're describing is more like me (day three for me is an adrupt stop or pause as it happens to be). I also take forever to actually start in the first place which I attribute completely to the progesterone issue I have.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbgrace* 
*http://www.drlam.com/articles/adrenal_fatigue.asp*
Here's one link which is the one I found last night.

Wow! This is the best article I've ever read written on this subject. I've forwarded it to several friends and read every word. I highly suggest anyone considering if they have adrenal fatigue to read it. It has many holistic suggestions. I'm going to start a "10pm Bedtime Club". Anyone want to join me? I know SLEEP is a huge key. And eating breakfast by 10am!! *10pm Bedtime Club*

Pat


----------



## Shazer

I was just diagnosed this week with really low cortisol levels.

After reading a couple of books on AF, I decided to boost my carb consumption with grains (previously off them for long time because of blood sugar issues) and lots more veggies. I've cut out most fruit, except for low glycemic fruits like berries. I had been on a high protein, high fat, low carb diet for years due to formerly being severely insulin resistant related to PCOS. I'm trying for no more than 25 grams per meal, which is huge for me.

It feels so wrong to eat this way. I've eliminated the foods for which I tested sensitive. But I feel sluggish, feel hypoglycemic and famished, and have such cloudy thinking since upping my carbs. I'm waiting for my adrenal supplements to arrive, but have started taking vitamin C and magnesium in addition to my regular vitamin. I've been salting everything, including my water. I've also really tried to sleep and rest this week, disregarding necessary work. I know I absolutely need the rest more than anything.

After being insulin resistant for years and having gone through regular MD treatment complete with prescription medications, I successfully eliminated my reactive hypoglycemia within two weeks of going low-carb. I probably should have started a more gradual upping of carbs in trying to repair my adrenal function, and will taper back.

Can anyone relate to this struggle? I'm desperate to know how to eat. I thought I found the solution with a high protein and high fat diet, but apparently not if I have such severely burned out adrenals.


----------



## Theloose

For those of us for whom adrenal resistance has been a lifelong thing...

ACTH is the hormone that stimulates cortisol production/release.
Dopamine inhibits ACTH.

I thought that was neat, considering my MTHFR gene that seems to predispose me to low dopamine...


----------



## bluets

joining the club...

i did a saliva test a few months ago, originally looking for the cause of super duper short cycles (14 days!), and learned that i am in mid stage adrenal fatigue. cortisol is low, DHEA is high. of course, progesterone is low (because it is being converted to cortisol). i also suspect low thyroid (annoying buzzing in my head; messed up calcium levels) but that is likely induced by the low adrenals. i had already been taking food-based vitamin C (amla or acerola), CLO, magnesium.

i started on Femarone-17 and that immediately helped my cycle length even within the cycle when i started applying the cream. my HCP now recommends 1-2 more cycles at current dose, then gradually decrease over the next 6-9 months (but she doesn't need to see me anymore).

i also started on NeuroScience AdreCort. VILE stuff. my husband uses a product called Adrenergize and i think i'll be switching. i also take pregnenolone, a precursor to both progesterone and cortisol.

a consequence of adrenal fatigue is poor connective tissue so we're just loving our broth here. trying to remember to sprinkle gelatin in stuff but it isn't quite a habit yet.

d-calcium glucarate is supposed to help reduce excess estrogen levels, thereby reducing symptoms of estrogen dominance. cordyceps is supposed to help nourish adrenals. i tried both of these but wasn't habitually taking them through the day so i don't know if they were doing anything.

if anything has helped, it was kicking the coffee habit and replacing with my herbal latte: licorice root, sassafras root, sarsaparilla root, cinnamon, chaste berries, ginger root, and coconut milk. yum.

i agree that sleep is probably the biggest and the hardest. i don't have a problem falling asleep. i have the problem that i need 1-2 hours post-ds bedtime for me.

dh has noticed that 5-htp works wonders for his light sleeping patterns.

here's my reference sheet, in case it hasn't been mentioned in this tome of a thread:
http://www.drrind.com/therapies/adre...endation-sheet


----------



## sbgrace

Jennifer,
That's a lot of information I've not heard before.

Who are you seeing? (I'm about an hour from Bloomington).

I wondered what is going on with your calcium too?

WhoMe,
What are you doing to address that issue/is there a way to address low dopamine?

Shazer








I don't know what to suggest. My son had to convert from high fat to high carb quickly when we found he had a metabolic condition inhibiting fat metabolism. He's too young to accurately tell me but he seemed so much better almost immediately. So to me it's telling that your body is reacting this way and responded well to the high fat/protein. I'm sorry the adrenal stuff is throwing that off. Going slow seems better. You might also try some carb digesting enzymes (zymeprime is good) and maybe that would help. I'd also do probiotics because carbs feed "bad guys" and that could be making you feel sluggish.


----------



## bluets

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbgrace* 
Jennifer,
That's a lot of information I've not heard before.

here's a good synopsis: http://www.drrind.com/forms/wp_metabolic_seminar.pdf

Quote:

Who are you seeing? (I'm about an hour from Bloomington).
Susan Clearwater. she relies heavily on the folks at NeuroScience for test interpretation, along with their products. though Neuroscience does accept insurance...

Quote:

I wondered what is going on with your calcium too?
thyroid contributes to calcium regulation, no? i suspect that the adrenal fatigue has reached my limit and is inducing low thyroid function, disrupting calcium regulation. a little extra folate in mid-day helps with congestion (a sign of high serum calcium) but doesn't get rid of the buzzing. however, emma has done some reading, from which i infer that the buzzing is likely related to thyroid/calcium: http://blog.plantpoisonsandrottenstu...ypothyroidism/


----------



## sbgrace

Jennifer,
Have you had a high calcium serum finding in a lab?


----------



## Annikate

Jennifer! I was just thinking about you a couple of weeks ago and could not remember your username!


----------



## bluets

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbgrace* 
Jennifer,
Have you had a high calcium serum finding in a lab?

no - haven't tested. it's a PITA to get in to the regular doc - like a 3-4 MONTH wait even for annual exams.


----------



## bluets

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Jennifer! I was just thinking about you a couple of weeks ago and could not remember your username!

my ears were burning


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbgrace* 
WhoMe,
What are you doing to address that issue/is there a way to address low dopamine?

I'm looking at the biosynthesis of dopamine and focusing on the necessary nutrients. I still need to sit down and really write it all out, but so far I have that folate and B12 are really important, both for making BH4 (synthesis), and for making methyl groups (synthesis and inactivation). Tyrosine/phenylalanine are also important, as is vitamin D. Still chasing down the rest...

Mental note - get outside, it's summer!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
if anything has helped, it was kicking the coffee habit and replacing with my herbal latte: licorice root, sassafras root, sarsaparilla root, cinnamon, chaste berries, ginger root, and coconut milk. yum.


Yum. How do you make the latte?

I'm still messed up from staying up for 22 hours or something during my sister's labor/birth. It's *amazing* how even a small lack of sleep messes me up hardcore, for days, weeks even!

I'm also having a hard time again with anything mildly carby or sugary. I have noticed a pattern when I feel really worn down & burned out that I have trouble with certain foods. During these times of feeling burned out, I really can only eat meat & veggies with butter & coconut oil. Otherwise I feel super dizzy & get heart palps.

I've been trying for 3 WEEKS now to order Thorne's #5 B complex & they've out of stock *forever.* I really feel like this will help me since I do so well with raw liver. I need to start taking regular doses of vitamin c though, I don't think I get enough via diet.

Has everyone checked out THE Iodine Thread? Interesting stuff!


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I've been trying for 3 WEEKS now to order Thorne's #5 B complex & they've out of stock *forever.* I really feel like this will help me since I do so well with raw liver. I need to start taking regular doses of vitamin c though, I don't think I get enough via diet.

I'd be careful with that one since B5 can interfere with riboflavin and biotin absorption. I had to separate my b complex from my extra b5, or else I got riboflavin deficiency symptoms from eating liver. Vit A and riboflavin work together for skin stuff.


----------



## Tikimama

Hello all...I stumbled across the thread today as I was looking to see what supplements were safe to take while nursing. Wow...I don't feel so alone or crazy anymore!

I was diagnosed with AF and estrogen dominance a little over a year ago. I got pregnant after getting treatment and just had my baby about 4 weeks ago. I went off of the adrenal supplements that I was on once I got pregnant and was fine the entire time...I feel best when pregnant. Now I notice that I still need them and am hoping to redo my saliva test and get back on the supplements.

I don't have any compounding thyroid issues, thank goodness or any issue with gluten or arthritis. However, my saliva tests were startling. My highest level was first thing in the morning (common I know) at 3 and then 0 for the rest of the day. I'm not quite sure how I'm functioning. I was at the end of my rope after being diagnosed with everything from galbladder disease (though all tests were normal) to bipolar disorder to explain the extreme irritability I had.

I'm a mom to 4 now and they are all very young. I find myself with very little patience, very little energy, and even less tolerance when my husband looks at me like he feels sorry for me and wishes there were something he could do. Isn't that crazy? I have no sex drive though I think about it and wish I still did. I know this kicked into really high gear about 3 years ago after I had my ds but suspect that with anxiety issues almost 12 years ago that it may have started long ago.

My first desire in the morning is for a danish and coffee...anything fat and sweet. I do know that when I cut out sugar I feel a whole lot better but at this point, it seems too hard to even consider.

Aren't I crazy for not feeling the willpower to do what I know will make me feel better? In the meantime, my biggest complaints are irritability, lack of energy, irritability







, difficulty staying asleep and a splitting headache with even one glass of wine or a beer (which is completely new). So far, I'm only on a B complex vitamin, fish oil, vitamin d, and a probiotic. I was on progesterone for several months when I got pregnant.

Just wanted to throw this out to the ether and thank you guys for sharing your info. It's nice to not feel so alone.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

I'm cross-posting here and on the allergy chat thread. Did I tank my adrenals by trying to address hypothyoid issues with iodine?

~~

I'm really wondering what is going on with my body. I feel like I have tanked my adrenals somehow and now I'm all out of whack.







I'm so very tired, am not sleeping well, my anxiety levels is elevated, I'm not feeling the greatest. I'm wondering if I've screwed something up by taking iodine. I'm trying to think of what I've been doing differently. My digestive track isn't all that thrilled with me either. Muscularly I am achy, more than usual. I'm just done being sick and tired.

I also have this boil on my back that I think I need to have removed. It was a cystic pimple years ago (about 5) that never formed a head, then it got infected and became huge. I was able to drain it (finally though the head) using goldenseal root powder as a paste and deep massage in the shower. (It was disgusting.) It was gone for quite a while, but now is back (though not nearly as big as it was - more like the size of a marble). But, I think there's scar tissue now because there is no way to drain it again with goldenseal root. I wonder if that is just way too taxing on my adrenal system if it's infected again.

Like I said above, I think I need to eliminate more food, at least for me. Maybe I can use this summer to focus on only fresh veggies, fruits, with limited nuts, grains, and meats. I just don't know what to do and there does not seem to be any easy answers.

I actually had to turn the TV on for the first time in a week for the boys today so I could just lay down on the couch and rest. We are going to a baseball game tonight and I just don't know how I'm going to make it. I am supposed to go grocery shopping now for safe snacks to take and I can't even imagine packing up three kids to go shopping. I need to be thankful that dh only has 3 days left of work before summer break. That is one silver lining. But man, I feel ran over. I don't feel sick, per se, but just wiped out. Sorry for the vent.


----------



## MissyH

Just dont' overdo anything and follow your body's signals. I hope you feel better soon.


----------



## Metasequoia

3 kids are REALLY exhausting!! Have you ever tried liver? I'm telling you - raw liver from grass-fed cows is a *life saver* for me! I don't particularly enjoy the taste of liver (like in pate), so I slice of a chunk of frozen liver, chop it into pill sized pieces & sprinkle some Celtic salt & kelp over them. Then I drop about 4 pieces way back on my tongue & swallow with water. I really, really don't taste the liver.
The boost (both mental & physical) is immediate & it lasts a really long time. I have never noticed a drop off like with caffeine or sugar either.

I don't really know about the iodine. Did you do a loading test first to see where you stood?

The things that have helped me the most have been:

Absolutely NO caffeine.

Get rid of sugar.

Lots of animal protein (organic, grass-fed.)

Restrict carbs (I've found that I feel really bad when I eat carbs.)

Multi-mineral has been really calming, yet energizing for me (copper-free & iron-free.)

Going to bed EARLY (which Im not always good at, but 9pm is ideal.)

Removal of stress (this is really hard, but I've really, REALLY tried hard to remove stress from my life. Unfortunately, I can't remove my ex...)

B vitamins (liver is better, IMO)

Vitamin C (lots.)

I took pregnenolone & glandulars for a looong time & my anxiety disappeared. I ran out about a month ago & haven't refilled yet...no anxiety yet...

Other supps I take: CLO (Blue Ice {fermented}), vitamin D3, K2.


----------



## Metasequoia

Has anyone started exercising? I recently joined the Y & signed up for a bunch of classes. So far, I've taken 3 classes & I feed REALLY good afterwards!!

I originally signed up for 3/week but added a few more. The Body Tone class is an hour long & we really focus on every muscle. We use free weights, weight-bars, balls & steps. My muscles are a bit sore but they feel GOOD!

I leave the gym feeling energized, loose, clear-headed & relaxed. My only concern is that I'm pumping out adrenaline. I don't feel the adrenaline rush but does that mean it's not there?

I have sooooo much energy for the rest of the day if I work out in the morning. I have this pattern down that I feel could save my life







- I work out in the morning, come home & eat raw liver - then I feel like a million bucks for the rest of the day. I sleep like a rock & wake up ready to work out again.

I haven't told my ND yet because I know he's going to say it's too much - but how can it be bad when I feel so physically & mentally GOOD? All this time, I feel like my muscles have become atrophied - they've been so achy & sore & exercise makes them feel good.

I also gave up my supplements.







I remember a conversation we had here about glandulars possibly adding belly weight & I'm so sick of my growing belly that I just gave them up. I also stopped drinking straight milk to see if it was a bloating issue. I wake up with a super flat tummy & by afternoon, I could pass for 4-5 months pregnant. I feel like it *must* be bloating.
I might add the ACE drops back in to support my adrenals since working out IS stress on the body.

Any thoughts on healing muscles? I know I need days off for my muscles to recover & good sleep. The only thing I take now is a multi-mineral (minus copper & iron.) I should take more magnesium. I was going to get Thorne's B vits but I'm wondering if the liver has enough that I don't need to supp.?

Thoughts on any of this?


----------



## WuWei

(grass-fed) Liver is magic food!







:







:







:

Nutritional Profile
_Calf's liver is an excellent source of the minerals copper and selenium as well as an excellent source of vitamin A, vitamin B2, vitamin B12 and folate. In addition, it is also a very good source of protein, vitamin C, zinc, niacin and phosphorus and a good source of vitamin B5, vitamin B6, and iron.
_
_http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=129
_

Pat


----------



## Dillpicklechip

I am a bit overwhelmed by the hugeness of this thread but I'm going to jump in here anyway...I have not been diagnosed with adrenal fatigue (as there is no way I could afford to see a naturopath) but I know that this is the cause of my health problems over the past five years or so. I learned about adrenal fatigue after doing online research, trying to find a possible cause for my hypoglycemia that just appeared suddenly--during a period of my life where I was in an intensely stressful living situation. I fit all the classic symptoms now, and I feel like I'm just a shadow of the healthy, fun, energetic woman I used to be years ago.

Anyway...so I have been doing online research on AF, and I found this page
http://www.naturalnews.com/019339.html
which suggests taking licorice root--could somebody please tell me if this is a good idea, and why? The page doesn't elaborate.

Also, this page states 2000 to 5000 mg of vitamin C per day...wow, this is a lot, and would get expensive fast! Is this much really needed, and if so, what kind is the best to take? There's a bewildering array of vitamin C products out there.

Thank you!


----------



## tanyalynn

Dillpicklechip--I take a lot more vitC than that (my bowel tolerance amount tends to be fairly high, higher than most folks here), I use Now brand sodium ascorbate, in the 3-pound containers, it's fairly economical.

Meta--you seem pretty in tune with how your body's doing, so if you keep paying attention, and you keep feeling good, then yay, go for it! It's not like drinking coffee and having lots of energy, which is bad, it's doing something that's supposed to be good for you and it's making you feel good. One thing to consider, I've seen reasonable arguments that we really only need to focus on weights a few times a week, it doesn't have to be every day.

You know I'm a supplement kind of person (the anti-Pat!














ya Pat) so this is predictable, but I'd say a B supp heavy on the B5 is appropriate, you've got a lot of work, and still continuing stress, to really heal your adrenals. It sounds like you've made serious progress to get to this point, so that you can start being fairly active and feel good, but at least for me, I've seen it a couple times where I start feeling good, and so I'm not so good at babying myself, and remembering that wearing myself down was a long, slow process, and I need to accept that building myself back up will also be a slow process. I've had a couple setbacks because of that.


----------



## Metasequoia

Thanks Tanya!!







I just got a 20% off coupon from naturamart this morning too.







I'm only using weights a few times a week. I feel like I fell into the perfect routine for me right off the bat. I'm so thrilled with working out! I'll keep up with the liver & add the Thorne B with extra 5. I REALLY should get a big ole container of C....and Mag since the kids finished off the Mag a week or so ago. They love it - say it helps them sleep really well - go figure.

Dillpicklechip - somewhere in the first few pages is an explanation of how licorice helps us. It has to do with our imbalance of sodium & potassium. Most of us adrenal peeps have a hard time with enough sodium (this also causes hypoglycemia) so licorice will help turn that around. I was doing really well with my daily licorice, but fell off the wagon recently.

You have to get the non-whatever the word is. Dr. Baschetti's is really good. It's a powder that you just mix.


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Thanks Tanya!!







I just got a 20% off coupon from naturamart this morning too.







I'm only using weights a few times a week. I feel like I fell into the perfect routine for me right off the bat. I'm so thrilled with working out! I'll keep up with the liver & add the Thorne B with extra 5. I REALLY should get a big ole container of C....and Mag since the kids finished off the Mag a week or so ago. They love it - say it helps them sleep really well - go figure.

Dillpicklechip - somewhere in the first few pages is an explanation of how licorice helps us. It has to do with our imbalance of sodium & potassium. Most of us adrenal peeps have a hard time with enough sodium (this also causes hypoglycemia) so licorice will help turn that around. I was doing really well with my daily licorice, but fell off the wagon recently.

You have to get the non-whatever the word is. Dr. Baschetti's is really good. It's a powder that you just mix.

Congrats on the exercise. I still don't tolerate it well. But I need to start doing something with weights or I'll atrophy into nothing.
What are you doing for liver support?


----------



## Vaquitita

i'm trying to read through this whole thread, wow 100+ pages. in the mean time, i'm trying to decide whether to go ahead and order a saliva test. or if what i'm already doing is enough. i have been fatigued, foggy headed, and lacking in sex drive for 2-3 years (since pregnancy #2). last september i began seeing a nutri-spec practitioner and as i now go back and search for adrenals in his info, i find he's had me on stuff that is similar to what you ladies are taking. salt water first thing in the morning for one. at my last testing, my salts and other things were reduced. and my symptoms are better, but not gone. so, i'm trying to decide 1) if what i'm doing is working good enough and it just needs a bit more time or 2) if i should order a saliva test and then supplement depending on the results or 3) if i should eat adrenal glands because they are good for me and won't hurt? in the past eating/taking liver has really helped my energy level, though i ran out and haven't taken any in quite a while.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Congrats on the exercise. I still don't tolerate it well. But I need to start doing something with weights or I'll atrophy into nothing.

Does muscle atrophy hurt? I seriously wonder if that is what my muscle pain is from.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
What are you doing for liver support?

Nothing. What should I be doing?


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Does muscle atrophy hurt? I seriously wonder if that is what my muscle pain is from.

Nothing. What should I be doing?

I always thought the muscle pain was from working out? No? My muscles do hurt though.

I thought you referenced liver support above but perhaps you were talking about eating liver. Yes, the raw liver. that must have been it.


----------



## Dillpicklechip

Huh? I thought people with impaired adrenals are supposed to consume extra salt, but this page that I just read:
http://www.naturalways.com/adrenal.htm
says that we should limit sodium and increase potassium intake. Isn't that the opposite of what everyone else is saying? I'm trying to research this and feeling pretty confused!

Also, how does licorice root help?

Thank you!


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dillpicklechip* 
Huh? I thought people with impaired adrenals are supposed to consume extra salt, but this page that I just read:
http://www.naturalways.com/adrenal.htm
says that we should limit sodium and increase potassium intake. Isn't that the opposite of what everyone else is saying? I'm trying to research this and feeling pretty confused!

Also, how does licorice root help?

Thank you!

I haven't read the page, but if you're in the resistance phase of adrenal fatigue where you're overproducing all the adrenal hormones, then you'd have high aldosterone and so you'd hold on to salt and dump potassium. Once the adrenals crash, the aldosterone goes along with them and so you dump salt and hold on to potassium.

Among other things already mentioned, licorice increases your cortisol levels by slowing the breakdown.


----------



## bluets

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Yum. How do you make the latte?


1/2 c. licorice root
1/4 c. dried ginger root
1/4 c. sassafras root
1/4 c. wild yam root
1/4 c. dandelion root

dump into a pan and dry toast/roast. then dump into a large ceramic/glass bowl.

add:
1/4 c. cinnamon chips
1/4 c. rooibos tea
1/4 c. sarsaparilla root
1/4 c. chasteberries (these boost pituitary function but if your adrenals are kaput, they wont' have much of an effect)

mix. store in a jar. to use, dump 1-2 Tbsp per 8oz water into a nonreactive pot. add your water. decoct (i.e., simmer, DO NOT BOIL). (a good way of decocting is to use a drip coffeemaker - put the herbs in the carafe, let the water flow through and leave the element on. of course, most modern coffeemakers have that stupid auto-shutoff.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
I always thought the muscle pain was from working out? No? My muscles do hurt though.

I thought you referenced liver support above but perhaps you were talking about eating liver. Yes, the raw liver. that must have been it.

I've had chronic muscle pain for 3 years now - not related to exercise. It's different than sore muscles after exercising - those ache, but in a good way.

And yes, I mean eating raw liver.


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## tanyalynn

Meta, you've had your vitamin D checked and you're at a good level now, am I remembering correctly?


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## Metasequoia

Found my post about licorice:

Directions for Dr. Baschetti's:

Take 1 cup of hot, hot water & add 4 level TBSP of licorice powder & slowly stir until dissolved. Let it cool to room temp, stirring occasionally to make sure it dissolves thoroughly.
Poor into 2 quart container & add enough cow's/goat's/coconut milk to fill container to the top.

*I make a smaller batch, using 1 1/3 tsp of licorice powder & dissolve in a splash of hot water - then I fill to the 1 cup line with raw cow's milk. Each morning, I drink 1/4 cup of this mixture. My dosage is a bit smaller since I've been nursing this whole time.

How licorice helps us:

Quote:

*The licorice extract inhibits 11 beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (11-BHOD) in the kidneys. 11-BHOD is the enzyme that inactivates cortisol. People with adrenal insufficiency do not retain enough sodium, and have an excess of potassium. The ratio between our body's sodium & potassium is like a seesaw. If one goes up, the other is down. Blocking 11-BHOD in the kidneys allows cortisol access to the mineralocorticoid receptors triggering an increased retention of sodium and a lowering of potassium. This action brings a person with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome into sodium/potassium balance, therefore, supplementing these individuals with potassium is not needed nor recommended.
The increased sodium causes the body to conserve water, which quickly increases your overall blood volume. Increased blood volume indirectly increases blood pressure by increasing the efficiency of the heart.*


----------



## twinkletoesmomma

I hope that you all don't mind me joining you. I've been reading through this thread over the last few weeks. it has proved very helpful.

I had an ASI test done through Diagnos-Tech a few weeks ago, and got the results. Unfortunately, I happened to do it on a very good day, so who knows what it would really be. My main problem (other than no energy) is insomnia. I haven't slept well since February....like only 2 times a week. I have 4 little kids, and I need to get better so I can be a mommy to them. poor things!
Cortisol:
Morning-- 14 normal (13-24)
noon --1* Depressed (5-10)
afternoon-- 2 Depressed (3-8)
midnight -- 5 Elevated (1-4)

burden 22 (23-42)

DHEA 3 borderline (3-10)

Zone 7 Adrenal Fatigue

I also learned that I was sensitive to gluten....total shock. I've never had any symptoms before. praying this one corrects itself once my adrenals heal. I like my homemade whole wheat bread!

Here is my question. How do they figure out the cortisol-dhea correlation? Is it the lowest amount of cortisol during the day only? My little marker is right on the line between a zone 7 and zone 5 (although they put me in zone 7). I'm wondering though if I am really closer to a zone 5 since I have an only slightly lower cortisol burden and the whole insomnia thing.

I'm taking seriphos at night and at least I'm calm now if I don't sleep! before I was having heart racing and panicky feelings. Is there anything else I could try to sleep? I am going to try some honey as soon as I get some good kind. would magnesium help? I tried melatonin and it did nothing, but maybe combined with the seriphos to keep me calm it would help. any advice or tips would help greatly.

thanks so much.


----------



## tanyalynn

twinkletoesmomma--for sleep, the things that have helped me are: melatonin (bummer it doesn't help you, I think some folks use 5-htp, it has serotonin/mood implications as well); magnesium helps my daughter; eliminating stimulants, not just caffeine and reducing sugar (which I seriously struggle with) but also food intolerances, for me it turned out to be gluten and dairy (and I have no digestive symptoms, it was surprising), when we eat these foods, it stresses our bodies and makes it a lot harder to heal. Maybe the small changes would help something else bigger work for sleep--even with all the other stuff, I seriously need my melatonin, so I hope you figure out what it is that you need.

One quick question, sorta odd. Your results report actually had a zone? My DH's result was on the line between 5 and 7, but his morning cortisol was also depressed, but I can't find a result on the page, and I've wondered ever since we tested him last fall. Can you describe the part of the page that has your result? (the part that says zone 7, I mean) I'm wondering if they modified the report since we got it, or if I've continually, repeatedly overlooked it.


----------



## twinkletoesmomma

Thanks Tanya. I'll look into those other things you mentioned. I really need to sleep! LOL

The zone was listed on the second page of my report just under the DHEA results. It is next to the graph which shows the cortisol-dhea correlation. It specifically says, "Figure 3 shows your cortisol-DHEA correlation was in: Zone 7- Adrenal Fatigue. " THen, under the graph, zone 7 is in bold print. HTH!


----------



## nichole

I wanted to check in. This thread has helped me so much. I'm feeling a lot better than I did a year ago. I think I'm going to try to cut back on some of my supplements to just a handful and add in iodine. Or maybe I will just try to eat wild salmon or kelp.

I do feel a little tired in the afternoons, but if I can just have a few minutes of quiet time in the afternoon while the cartoons or on then I am able to finish the day.

I think what has helped me the most is magnesium, b complex, selenium, vit d. Probably getting my amalgams out and reducing my stress has helped too.

Everyone hang in there!
Nichole


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## tanyalynn

Darn, well, except not, because it sounds like an improvement on the report, but mine doesn't label the figures 1, 2, etc or have any of that text. Ah well...

I wish I could say DH is doing better, but I bet he'd test just as bad as last year, recent stress totally wiped out any gains I was hoping I was seeing.


----------



## Theloose

sleep thread for twinkletoes

Tanya, thanks to your work, dh isn't getting *worse* from all the stress. That still counts as progress!


----------



## tanyalynn

Thanks, Shannon, that's a good way to look at it. I have some frustration, I saw the gains I think he was making just melt away in the past couple months with new stress at work, thankfully that stress is past, but argh.

Vaquitita, I feel your pain, re: not knowing if you're doing enough. For me, trying to figure out what I can and should do given that we have not yet eliminated the biggest stress DH has, his job, and relocated to a more hospitable climate, well, it's confusing and frustrating. And it seems trickier for him, because for me, I am very clear on why my adrenals wore down and I'm working on that, and I'm seeing progress, better progress when I actually get to bed early and do stuff like that.







But for him, the causes seem more diverse, and although I think we've addressed most of the concrete problems, emotionally he seems more worn down, and probably his adrenals are really worse than mine, and fixing things just seems harder.

I've recently purchased nettles and a few other herbs, and started making nettles & peppermint infusions, I've got 2 quarts brewing in the sun now. I'm always worried about adding something that could stress our adrenals more, especially for DH, but I think this falls into the supportive, nourishing category. And it's not as bad tasting as I was expecting.







It's oddly compelling, actually.

Twinkletoes, I almost forgot the one other thing that I think really helped reduce my overall stress, which helped with relaxation at night, and that was regular meals, breakfast w protein at 7-8am, early lunch (and maybe a morning snack too), afternoon snack, regular dinnertime, and for me a bedtime snack. Yeah, food is a central theme in my life.







But I think it helped reduce my overall stress and that helped get my circadian rhythms back into a better place.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Tanya, thanks to your work, dh isn't getting *worse* from all the stress. That still counts as progress!

Not Tanya, but thanks for that. I've been feeling the same way as Tanya, except for myself instead of for DH, recently. It seems like a struggle not to lose my mind and, if I slip up on ONE supp for even a day or two, I'm "hurting" (physically, mentally, emotionally, all of the above...) for a couple of days.


----------



## twinkletoesmomma

I called Diagnos tech to ask how they figure out the cortisol number for the correlation, and they wouldn't tell me. I don't know why--- I just want to know what number they look at to graph the chart. Does anyone know what number they take to figure this out? I am so close to zone 5 so I want to know what number is keeping me in zone 7. thanks for all the advice on sleep. i'm going to try some of these.


----------



## tanyalynn

I'm guessing it's the DHEA, take a look at these charts....

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%204.html

DHEA in stage 4 is lower than it is in stage 5, and then it keeps going up for stage 6 and crashes for stage 7. That said, your cortisol looks much more stage 5-ish, and maybe that's a more accurate evaluation for you. Either way, I think the biggest value you get from this is a baseline, and then you can work on improvements and see which way things go. Maybe as you feel better, you'll show up in stage 6, or maybe you'll show up in stage 4. I am left with this, anyway, in understanding DH's results, because he's also right on the line between 5 and 7 but without a real score. And his cortisol was always just a bit depressed, except for scoring 1 at midnight, and that's just odd. So I have to think that there's individual transition time from one stage to another, rather than abrupt breaks the way labelling this into 7 stages would lead us to believe.


----------



## Metasequoia

Interesting about the graphs. I've tested 3 years in a row now & the first two years I was in zone 7. This year, I only tested cortisol to save money so I didn't get a DHEA number & no graph. Next year I'm definitely doing the whole ASI because I love to see where I've moved on the graph.


----------



## tanyalynn

Meta, from the last page (but I think we cross-posted at one point), have you had your vitD tested? I thought you were pretty good, right? Because I hear body aches can be related to low vitamin D (though I'm not sure how to define good levels, I've read >50 and sometimes even >80!).


----------



## Metasequoia

It was 36 in January, but that was by Quest, so I need to lower that by (how much? 20-30%, right?) After that, I started supping additional D drops along with the CLO. Now I'm in the sun daily without sunscreen & minimal clothing. I have an Rx to get it tested, just haven't done so yet. I laid off the D & really need to stick with it. I get on a roll with giving us our supps every day for a while & then I fall off the wagon.

I read an interesting post in the CFS thread by sbgrace. My ND has mentioned mitochondrial dysfunction to me over the past couple of years but he said it's expensive to test. I think I'd like to play around with CoQ10, L-carnitine & D-ribose to see what happens. The book I read when my dad was having his heart problems talked a lot about the combo of those supps.


----------



## twinkletoesmomma

talked to my dr and he said that the phase/zone is determined by DHEA and the average of the 2 middle of the day (noon and 4 pm) cortisol readings. Since my levels are so high in the middle of the night, am I as bad off as what the paper says--or is that the trouble (that my days and nights are mixed up)?


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *twinkletoesmomma* 
talked to my dr and he said that the phase/zone is determined by DHEA and the average of the 2 middle of the day (noon and 4 pm) cortisol readings. Since my levels are so high in the middle of the night, am I as bad off as what the paper says--or is that the trouble (that my days and nights are mixed up)?

The cortisol pattern looks really phase 5-ish to me, but the midday numbers are more depressed than most people, and I'm guessing that combined with the DHEA made you mathemetically phase 7. But the cortisol shape isn't phase 6 or 7. The U-shaped cortisol (higher morning than midday, and then elevated above healthy people at night) is how phase 5 looks.


----------



## dianna11

I'm so glad this thread is here!! I just got my saliva test back, and my naturopath has said that I'm way past adrenal fatigue, to total adrenal blowout (not a medical term, she has just never seen numbers this low).

She is going to start supplementing me on Thorne Cortrex, a bovine adrenal supplement, and a few other things.

I'm curious what happens - what changes you would notice once this therapy is under way? Hopefully, I will start to feel better, but I've been feeling cruddy for so long that I can't imagine life without low energy and all the other fun stuff we all deal with here.

For those with low to barely existent cortisol, how soon did you notice a difference, and what did you notice?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dianna11* 
I'm curious what happens - what changes you would notice once this therapy is under way?

<snip>

For those with low to barely existent cortisol, how soon did you notice a difference, and what did you notice?

What are your major complaints? The very first noticeable change for me was loss of anxiety (which was *awful* before I started healing.) It took quite a few months & I didn't notice right away. I was with a friend who mentioned her anxiety was really bad & that's when it hit me, I no longer had anxiety!

My biggest complaints are muscle pain & brain fog - and fatigue. The brain fog is MUCH better when I take my pregnenolone, but I've been bad about taking it lately (I think I'm out of it, actually.) However; I've discovered that eating raw liver gives me a strong mental & physical boost & that has been my healing aid of choice.

My cortisol was reeeeaally low. In 2007 I was in stage 7 (my results are on the first page of this thread.) In 2008, I was still in stage 7, but had moved closer to stage 5 & my DHEA rose. I eliminated gluten & managed to put on some weight & have zero PMS & a very mild period - so I think that helped as well. I didn't do a full ASI this year (2009) so I don't know what stage I'm in because I didn't do DHEA. I'll do a full ASI late this winter.

Oh, I must be feeling somewhat better because I joined the Y & have been working out quite a bit. I also get a great boost from that.

Another noticeable difference for me was blood sugar. I used to get terribly jittery, heart palps, dizzy, etc & I'm much better now. I also used to feel so dizzy when standing up & I rarely notice that anymore.

I do notice that if I stay up late at night, I pay for it for literally 3-4 days. One night of staying up until 1am & I feel physically awful for most of a week.


----------



## subtlycrunchy

From a health newsletter I receive, it appears Women to Women is starting an adrenal healing program. Anyone trying it? I found this symptom quiz/profile on the site -- Adrenal Health Profile and am crious - I've read all the articles there for years, but have not done the program.


----------



## jaimrene

I have been reading this thread because my doc says that I have AD. He is wanting to put me on 5mg of Cortef 4 times a day. My concern is that I am breastfeeding a 2.5 year old and a 4 month old. I haven't been able to find much information at all on Cortef at a low dose and BFing safety. I have just seen the FDA 'class C' rating stated over and over. Any information would be great! BTW, this thread has been so very helpful! Thanks


----------



## mom61508

Hellloooo ladies! I've read thru about 10 pages but with a 13 month old walkig around there's NO WAY to get thru all theses pages!!!!!!

Can someone direct me to a link with recommended supps for adrenal fatigue while bf? I actually had a consult with Dr. Lam and he said it seems I have a mild case.(haven't done a saliva test) I wasn't crazy about what he recommended it was synthetic...I'm looking for pure supps. I'm also hypothyroid with Hashis If that matters.
Thanks Jada


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *twinkletoesmomma* 
I hope that you all don't mind me joining you. I've been reading through this thread over the last few weeks. it has proved very helpful.

I had an ASI test done through Diagnos-Tech a few weeks ago, and got the results. Unfortunately, I happened to do it on a very good day, so who knows what it would really be. My main problem (other than no energy) is insomnia. I haven't slept well since February....like only 2 times a week. I have 4 little kids, and I need to get better so I can be a mommy to them. poor things!
Cortisol:
Morning-- 14 normal (13-24)
noon --1* Depressed (5-10)
afternoon-- 2 Depressed (3-8)
midnight -- 5 Elevated (1-4)

burden 22 (23-42)

DHEA 3 borderline (3-10)

Zone 7 Adrenal Fatigue

I also learned that I was sensitive to gluten....total shock. I've never had any symptoms before. praying this one corrects itself once my adrenals heal. I like my homemade whole wheat bread!

Here is my question. How do they figure out the cortisol-dhea correlation? Is it the lowest amount of cortisol during the day only? My little marker is right on the line between a zone 7 and zone 5 (although they put me in zone 7). I'm wondering though if I am really closer to a zone 5 since I have an only slightly lower cortisol burden and the whole insomnia thing.

I'm taking seriphos at night and at least I'm calm now if I don't sleep! before I was having heart racing and panicky feelings. Is there anything else I could try to sleep? I am going to try some honey as soon as I get some good kind. would magnesium help? I tried melatonin and it did nothing, but maybe combined with the seriphos to keep me calm it would help. any advice or tips would help greatly.

thanks so much.

Did you test positive for gluten antibodies? My doc said to get off gluten but didn't give me a reason. I have no symptoms either.


----------



## dannic

Hi. I guess I belong here.







subbing!


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Hellloooo ladies! I've read thru about 10 pages but with a 13 month old walkig around there's NO WAY to get thru all theses pages!!!!!!

Can someone direct me to a link with recommended supps for adrenal fatigue while bf? I actually had a consult with Dr. Lam and he said it seems I have a mild case.(haven't done a saliva test) I wasn't crazy about what he recommended it was synthetic...I'm looking for pure supps. I'm also hypothyroid with Hashis If that matters.
Thanks Jada









It matters in the sense that you can't properly treat your Hashi's until your Adrenal Fatigue has been addressed.
Re: your gluten comment above this one, it's strongly recommended that anyone with an autoimmune disorder s/a Hashimoto's go off of gluten as it's been shown to exacerbate autoimmune conditions.
I have no link, but hopefully someone else will.


----------



## Theloose

For nutrients, I'm having a lot of success with pantothenic acid (b5) (1000mg), b6 (200mg, now 50mg), and magnesium (800mg). vitamin c and an additional b complex are really useful as well. I was trying to do all food sources, but my nutritionist pushed me to at least try the high dose supplements. They've made a world of difference! Though to be honest, I haven't much looked into food based supps because dd reacts to so many things, it's hard to find a safe one...


----------



## ChristieB

I'm so glad there was a discussion here about iron deficiency awhile back. And I'm also glad Meta has been talking about the raw liver lately. I had seen that iron could cause hair loss, but I figured with my diet there was no way I was deficient. Then I saw so much talk about it, so I asked my dr. to test me. She said that while she was at it, she'd test my B-12, too. Well, my iron was fine. (What's the difference between iron and ferritin? -- My iron was high, but my ferritin was toward the low side of the range.) But my B-12 was low. 342. Not at a deficiency state yet, well on my way. Especially since it had dropped 240 in the last 3 yrs.

Anyway, I've been supplementing orally, and seeing no real change (probably in part because I'm impatient and want results NOW, as my 2 yo would say). So I decided to add raw beef liver, as I was told that it was a good way to bring up B-12 levels. Almost immediately, I started having more energy. It's wonderful! I pop about 8-12 large capsule-sized pieces 2-3 times per day. I'm also continuing to supplement the B-12. My dr. will check my levels again in 2-3 weeks (that will be about 2 months of supplementation) to make sure my levels are coming up. If not then we'll start injections. But I'll probably keep taking the liver, because I suspect that it's more than just the B-12 that's helping me.

I'm so glad I follow this thread (as much as I can, anyway). Otherwise I might not be starting to feel better.


----------



## Theloose

What form of B12 are you using? Cyanocobalamin isn't well utilized, and sublingual is easiest to absorb. If you've been eating meat but are still low on B12, I'd also look for a zinc deficiency - does eating beets turn your pee pink? You can also buy zinc sulfate and do a taste test for a more 'official' test.
www.detoxpuzzle.com/b12.php


----------



## Dillpicklechip

Most stuff I read about AF says that the most important thing you have to do to heal yourself is to reduce stress in your life. This is so, so hard for me, especially since I have so little tolerance for stress to begin with, so things that might not be stressful for a "normal" person are stressful for me.

My husband and I make stuff at home and sell it on Etsy, and while it's nice that the business is going well, I feel way too busy and stressed out about it on a regular basis. I wish we could just quit, but we can't be cause we have so much invested into tools and materials.

Yesterday I felt like I was going insane because we have three wholesale orders to do at once. And my four year old just broke his arm, and we're having problems with our ten year old, and the house is a wreck...

*sigh*


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dillpicklechip* 
Most stuff I read about AF says that the most important thing you have to do to heal yourself is to reduce stress in your life. This is so, so hard for me, especially since I have so little tolerance for stress to begin with, so things that might not be stressful for a "normal" person are stressful for me.

My husband and I make stuff at home and sell it on Etsy, and while it's nice that the business is going well, I feel way too busy and stressed out about it on a regular basis. I wish we could just quit, but we can't be cause we have so much invested into tools and materials.

Yesterday I felt like I was going insane because we have three wholesale orders to do at once. And my four year old just broke his arm, and we're having problems with our ten year old, and the house is a wreck...

*sigh*









I'm sorry things are so rough right now.
I completely understand about not being able to reduce stress. Most of my stress comes from sources I cannot control unless I ban them from my life- such as my family.







It's hard not to be stressed when your family is crazy.
The big thing for me isn't so much reducing stress as managing it. I notice a HUGE difference when I get my meditation sessions in during the day. It's even better when I manage to do some yoga as well (though some people can't handle ANY exercise).


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dillpicklechip* 
Most stuff I read about AF says that the most important thing you have to do to heal yourself is to reduce stress in your life. This is so, so hard for me, especially since I have so little tolerance for stress to begin with, so things that might not be stressful for a "normal" person are stressful for me.

My biggest motivator to stay on my adrenal support nutrients is that it makes me *not* stress about all the stupid stuff. If I start nagging dh, or if I feel myself freaking out over *anything at all* it's time for me to reassess my supplements. And then when I get it right, in a day or so, I'm back to my laid back, not stressed self.


----------



## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
What form of B12 are you using? Cyanocobalamin isn't well utilized, and sublingual is easiest to absorb. If you've been eating meat but are still low on B12, I'd also look for a zinc deficiency - does eating beets turn your pee pink? You can also buy zinc sulfate and do a taste test for a more 'official' test.
www.detoxpuzzle.com/b12.php

I'm using methylcobalamin, in sublingual lozenges. I split the tablet and take half in the morning and half in the evening, with meals. 1000 mcg/day. Yes, I'm eating meat, lots of it. I think I was deficient in zinc a few years ago. I take about 40 mg of zinc/day, sometimes 50 mg. Is that enough? Next time we're in town, I'll try getting the zinc sulfate. I don't know about what I do with beets. No one else here tolerates them so I just don't bother with them. They were never a favorite food for me anyway (not that I dislike them, they've just never been something I've eaten much of). I do always take an enzyme with my food (including the liver), if that matters.

There are definitely reasons to think that my digestion isn't what it should be, and so my absorption wouldn't be what it should be. I have celiac, and I've been GF for about 3 yrs. I don't think I've totally healed yet. I seem to be deficient in a lot of things. Gluten seems to affect me more neurologically than digestively, but as we all know, things aren't always what they seem.

Plus, we had something growing in our water filter (there was pink goo hanging from the faucet). I don't know why it bothered me more than anyone else in the family, but it really messed up my gut. I've not been drinking from there, just our regular well water, and things are improving, but I'm not totally better, either. That's a shorter term thing, though.

I suspect that I've always had some trouble with B-12 absorption. Years ago I had to take injections. I don't think I was tested to see what my levels were. A dr. just prescribed the injections for my awful headaches and menstrual cramps. It really helped! I stopped needing them for symptom relief, so I just stopped using them. Then after I was diagnosed with MS, a dr. (who I still really respect, and who mostly has very good advice) told me not to take B-12 supps or injections. He said that he'd seen some people get really, really sick from it (esp. the injections). So I haven't for the last 6 yrs., even when I suspected that I needed to raise my B-12 level (he suggested liver, which I didn't stick with -- I've come a looong way in what I'm willing to eat). Well, now I'm really, really sick from NOT having enough, so I'm taking the liver, but also the supps, and I will inject if need be. I suspect that a large part of the problem that he's seen with the injections has been from the preservatives. I've always used preservative-free.

We'll see what happens. I suspect that I've not been absorbing it well, and I've now run out of the supply that my liver was storing from taking it so regularly in injection form. I'll need to build it up again. We'll see when we test again whether what I'm doing is sufficient or not.

Thank you for your thoughts.


----------



## Theloose

If you can swing it, it could tell you a lot if you get beet pee - you need enough stomach acid to absorb the B12, and it sounds like you definitely have absorption issues with it. Which means liver may be a great source, but if you're not absorbing it well from the meat you're already eating, you're likely not going to absorb it any better from the liver. It's probably one of the other wonder of liver that's making you feel so much better?

I really should try some raw liver. I've never noticed these amazing benefits you all are talk of... Then again, my body doesn't seem to follow anybody's rules, so there ya go!


----------



## ChristieB

My enzymes have HCL in them, but I have no idea if it's enough. I'll see if I can get a couple beets for myself next time we're in town.

You know, I've noticed a little bit of improvement, sometimes, when I've tried the liver before. But it was never enough for me to be consistent. This time, I was figuring that if it was for the B-12, it would be a longer term thing, and I might not see results right away, so I stuck with it. It took about 3 days, I think, for me to really start noticing it. And I've been very consistent, taking it 2-3 times/day, not missing a day. Maybe that's been an issue for you? Or maybe your body's just different.

Speaking of liver, I need to go cut some more liver so I can stay consistent. The biggest challenge for me is that when I cut the liver, my 2 yo stands right next me, eating it almost as fast as I can cut it. I like that he likes it, and I know it's good for him, but it's just too much work! If he asks for some when I'm taking it, I give him a couple pieces, which isn't a problem. It's when he chows down on it and I can't enough cut last me more than a meal or two. I guess there are worse things.


----------



## Theloose

Hmm, dd would totally do the same thing, but i would figure the more she eats, the less i have to









Where is everyone finding their liver?


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
It matters in the sense that you can't properly treat your Hashi's until your Adrenal Fatigue has been addressed.
Re: your gluten comment above this one, it's strongly recommended that anyone with an autoimmune disorder s/a Hashimoto's go off of gluten as it's been shown to exacerbate autoimmune conditions.
I have no link, but hopefully someone else will.

Yes just read info on gluten/hashis


----------



## Theloose

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Yes just read info on gluten/hashis










No, it's great! It means now you have another huge piece of the puzzle to get healthier!


----------



## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Hmm, dd would totally do the same thing, but i would figure the more she eats, the less i have to









Where is everyone finding their liver?

I get mine from the same place I get the rest of my grassfed beef. I don't know where you are, but they're in southern CO and they ship, if you're interested.

ETA: you don't have to "eat" it. I just swallow down the chunks like they were pills.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
No, it's great! It means now you have another huge piece of the puzzle to get healthier!

Absolutely!


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
No, it's great! It means now you have another huge piece of the puzzle to get healthier!

yes you are right!!! I tried gluten free for 2 weeks then stopped because i didn't notice a difference but from what I've read that's not enough time.

And I was having a hard time transitioning. I never felt full so i need to become more familiar with millet, quinoa, beans, etc to feel satisfied. I'm skinny so I need subatance to keep meat on my bones. Not a vegetarian but the only meat i eat is chicken and turkey about twice a week. Some seafood as well.
Has anyone tried dr. rons products for adrenals?


----------



## mom61508

Oh ya could gluten sensitivity cause reflux?
My throat has been feeling strange(tightness/pressure) for about 6 weeks now

Not sure if that would be reflux or my thyoid


----------



## ChristieB

Yes, gluten can cause reflux.

It's possible that you don't feel full eating GF because your body is missing the gluten. In that case, it will take time. When you eat gluten, what do you eat that helps you to feel full? That may give you a clue as to what you'll need to add to feel full while eating GF.

Our family is grain-free (we've just added buckwheat occasionally, but technically that's not a grain, although it does have some similarities). It took us a little while to get used to it, and to figure out what to eat to satisfy us. To feel full, we eat plenty of fat, eggs, lots of meat (sorry, but it _does_ help), and lots of veggies. Something ele that really helps is eating fermented veggies with our meals. I don't know why, but it really helps us to feel more satisfied. And don't forget about potatoes and sweet potatoes.

Feel free to ask any questions you have. It takes some getting used to, but it is soooo worth it!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dillpicklechip* 
Most stuff I read about AF says that the most important thing you have to do to heal yourself is to reduce stress in your life. This is so, so hard for me, especially since I have so little tolerance for stress to begin with, so things that might not be stressful for a "normal" person are stressful for me.

Yep, it'll definitely get more manageable once your adrenals start healing. Not being able to handle stress is the classic symptom of adrenal fatigue.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristieB* 
Speaking of liver, I need to go cut some more liver so I can stay consistent. The biggest challenge for me is that when I cut the liver, my 2 yo stands right next me, eating it almost as fast as I can cut it. I like that he likes it, and I know it's good for him, but it's just too much work! If he asks for some when I'm taking it, I give him a couple pieces, which isn't a problem. It's when he chows down on it and I can't enough cut last me more than a meal or two. I guess there are worse things.









Same with me, but it's my cat. She eats a grain free canned food but passes it right by when I get the liver out. Dd1 eats it too, but not as much as your 2 y.o.

I take the liver out & run an end of it under warm water for a minute - then it slices really easily. I have only been eating it in the mornings, but I think I'm going to increase it to 2-3 times every day. Does it interfere with your sleep if you take it later in the day? What's the latest time you take it?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Where is everyone finding their liver?

Our natural living group does beef co-ops a couple of times a year & I'm always the last stop. I get about 4 boxes of organs every time because nobody wants them! Tongues, hearts, livers, tails...good stuff & free!

Hey - does anyone have a Hashi's-gluten link or links?


----------



## ChristieB

I take the liver at breakfast and at dinner, and if I'm home I take it at lunch, too. Dinner is usually about 4 hrs. before bed. The only time I had trouble sleeping was when I was trying to make up for lost time (I missed the liver at breakfast and lunch) and took it both at dinner and at bedtime. Bad plan! But dinner is OK. I take between 8-12 little chunks at a meal.

I'll have to remember that about running it under warm water. Would it work for a whole liver? We got some liver from some neighbors who butchered 2 grassfed steers. When I asked for the livers, I figured they'd be sliced, or in smallish packages, but they were WHOLE. I still haven't figured out what to do with them. The other liver I get is always in 1-1.5 lb. packages, all sliced up. I lay those slices out on parchment and let them freeze. Then I remove them from the freezer, and it only takes them a couple minutes to be right for slicing. It would be great if it were as easy as running a portion of the liver under water, for the whole livers.

*re: Hashimoto's*

mom61508, have you heard about LDN (low-dose naltrexone)? What I've read is that it works so well for Hashi's that you have to be really careful with dosing (both with the LDN and with thyroid meds). Anyway, I thought I'd mention it. I just recently started taking it for MS. So far, my eczema is gone, but nothing else that's easy to put a finger on. I just notice that if I miss it I don't have quite as good a day the following day. I'm not complaining, though, because the biggest thing it does for MS is to stop disease progression, and that's a longer term sort of thing to notice.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristieB* 
I take the liver at breakfast and at dinner, and if I'm home I take it at lunch, too. Dinner is usually about 4 hrs. before bed. The only time I had trouble sleeping was when I was trying to make up for lost time (I missed the liver at breakfast and lunch) and took it both at dinner and at bedtime. Bad plan! But dinner is OK. I take between 8-12 little chunks at a meal.

I'll have to remember that about running it under warm water. Would it work for a whole liver? We got some liver from some neighbors who butchered 2 grassfed steers. When I asked for the livers, I figured they'd be sliced, or in smallish packages, but they were WHOLE. I still haven't figured out what to do with them. The other liver I get is always in 1-1.5 lb. packages, all sliced up. I lay those slices out on parchment and let them freeze. Then I remove them from the freezer, and it only takes them a couple minutes to be right for slicing. It would be great if it were as easy as running a portion of the liver under water, for the whole livers.

*re: Hashimoto's*

mom61508, have you heard about LDN (low-dose naltrexone)? What I've read is that it works so well for Hashi's that you have to be really careful with dosing (both with the LDN and with thyroid meds). Anyway, I thought I'd mention it. I just recently started taking it for MS. So far, my eczema is gone, but nothing else that's easy to put a finger on. I just notice that if I miss it I don't have quite as good a day the following day. I'm not complaining, though, because the biggest thing it does for MS is to stop disease progression, and that's a longer term sort of thing to notice.

Thank you








From what I've read it's not natural and I'm trying to stay as natural as possible with my treatment. I'm also still BF a 13month old


----------



## ChristieB

It's true it's not natural, as it is a medication. And because of that I almost didn't post about it here. But it is a super low dose, and it works to help the body to work as it should, with few if any side affects. And for many with an autoimmune disease, it's really the lesser of "evils". Just an FYI, I looked into it a lot, and it's safe to take while breasfeeding (even in the higher doses, which isn't what is used for autoimmune diseases).

But I don't want to push anyone to take it. I _totally_ understand where you're coming from. It took me a few years to get to the point where it was something I wanted to try (although I do wish I'd tried it sooner, since I've had some neurological damage done in the meanwhile). In fact, it was only after trying natural method after natural method, and still having disease progression. Everything helped, and I'm absolutely going to stick with the lifestyle changes I've made, along with acupuncture and homeopathy. But for me, nothing stopped the disease progression, and I have two little boys depending on me. I don't know all there is to know about Hashi's, so I don't know if these things apply or not. I just wanted to throw it out there, in case you hadn't heard about it, and in case it was something that you would be interested in.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristieB* 
It's true it's not natural, as it is a medication. And because of that I almost didn't post about it here. But it is a super low dose, and it works to help the body to work as it should, with few if any side affects. And for many with an autoimmune disease, it's really the lesser of "evils". Just an FYI, I looked into it a lot, and it's safe to take while breasfeeding (even in the higher doses, which isn't what is used for autoimmune diseases).

But I don't want to push anyone to take it. I _totally_ understand where you're coming from. It took me a few years to get to the point where it was something I wanted to try (although I do wish I'd tried it sooner, since I've had some neurological damage done in the meanwhile). In fact, it was only after trying natural method after natural method, and still having disease progression. Everything helped, and I'm absolutely going to stick with the lifestyle changes I've made, along with acupuncture and homeopathy. But for me, nothing stopped the disease progression, and I have two little boys depending on me. I don't know all there is to know about Hashi's, so I don't know if these things apply or not. I just wanted to throw it out there, in case you hadn't heard about it, and in case it was something that you would be interested in.

THANK YOU so much








I understand and it's scary being where we are and not knowing EXACTLY what will help. I have been slacking on things so I realy need to give things a committed try and will keep your recommendation in mind for the future








What have you done as far as homeopathy?


----------



## ChristieB

I consult with a classical homeopath from time to time, and he prescribes remedies.

I'm glad you're going to try being more consistent with your natural methods and see what that accomplishes for you. I'm sure it will make a difference for you. Like I said, it's made a real difference for me.

And like I said in an earlier post, if you need help with going GF, just ask. I'd be happy to help troubleshoot, and others here are GF too.


----------



## Dillpicklechip

Does anyone here have experience taking licorice root while breastfeeding? I've seen a lot of stuff online saying that it might interfere with milk supply, is this really the case?


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristieB* 
I consult with a classical homeopath from time to time, and he prescribes remedies.

I'm glad you're going to try being more consistent with your natural methods and see what that accomplishes for you. I'm sure it will make a difference for you. Like I said, it's made a real difference for me.

And like I said in an earlier post, if you need help with going GF, just ask. I'd be happy to help troubleshoot, and others here are GF too.









much thanks. I've been doing a lot or researching on GF. Do you make your own bread?


----------



## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 







much thanks. I've been doing a lot or researching on GF. Do you make your own bread?

I PM'd you.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 







much thanks. I've been doing a lot or researching on GF. Do you make your own bread?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristieB* 
I PM'd you.









Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold up there, cowgirl. Are you holding out on us?







Share the wealth.


----------



## ChristieB

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold up there, cowgirl. Are you holding out on us?







Share the wealth.









Sorry, didn't mean to leave anyone out. I was just trying not to derail this thread any more than I already have.







And I can't really say there's any "wealth" here, anyway. Here's what I sent via PM:

I used to make GF bread, but haven't in a few years (we're grain-free now). I used a recipe in Bette Hagman's book The Gluten-Free Gourmet Bakes Bread. Here is the recipe. I've included the directions for using a mixer (like a Kitchenaid), but I assume that if you just have a hand mixer that would work, too. If you use a bread machine, you'll need to follow the instructions that came with the machine.

Basic Featherlight Rice Bread

Dry Ingredients:
3 cups Featherlight Rice Flour Mix (I've included it after this recipe







)
2 1/4 tsp. Xanthan gum (can substitute guar gum)
1 1/2 tsp. Unflavored gelatin
1 1/2 tsp. Egg Replacer
3/4 tsp. Salt
3 Tbs. Sugar (I left it out)
1/3 cup Dry milk powder or non-dairy substitute (I used almond meal)
2 1/4 tsp. Dry yeast granules

Wet Ingredients:
1 Egg plus 2 Whites
4 1/2 Tbs. Butter
3/4 tsp. Vinegar
1 Tbs. Honey or molasses (I used 1 1/2 Tbs. honey, since I left out the sugar)
1 1/2 cups Water (more or less)

Grease a 9" x 5" loaf pan and dust with rice flour.

The water should be 110 degrees.

For both hand mixing and machine mixing, combine the dry ingredients in a medium bowl and set aside.

In another bowl (or the bowl of your heavy-duty mixer) whisk the egg whites, butter (cut into chunks), vinegar, and honey until blended. Add most of the water to the egg mixture. The remaining water shold be added as needed after the bread has started mixing.

With the mixer turned to low, add the dry ingredients (including the yeast) a little at a time. Check to be sure the dough is the right consistency (should be like cake batter). Add more of the water as necessary. Turn the mixer to high and beat for 3 1/2 minutes. Spoon into the prepared pan, cover, and let rise ina warm place for about 35 minutes for rapid-rising yeast, 60 or more minutes for regular yeast or until the dough reaches the top of the pan. Bake in a preheated 400 degree oven for 50-60 minutes, covering after 10 minutes with aluminum foil.

Featherlight Rice Flour Mix

Rice flour (1 part)
Tapioca flour (1 part)
Cornstarch (1 part) -- I used Arrowroot
Potato flour (1 teaspoon per cup)

I used brown rice flour, and I changed the ratios, to cut back on the starch. I used 6 cups rice flour, and 1 1/2 cups each of the tapioca flour and arrowroot. It worked well for me, and we liked it, but I'm sure her ratios give a more "normal" loaf -- more like the store bought white bread.

---------------------------------

It was pretty good, as I recall. I made it in a bread machine, which is easiest, but it did use a non-stick pan. At the time I figured if we had been buying bread it would have been baked in non-stick also. Now we avoid it altogether, since we don't eat any prepared foods. It doesn't need a bread machine, though.

There are many good GF bread recipes out there these days. I have no idea how they compare to the one we used to make. I hear the one here is good. I couldn't link directly to the recipe, so click on the "+" next to breads, then click on "white bread". Everything on her website is GF, and I suspect it's all good.

A blog I've enjoyed is gluten-free girl. She explains a lot, and her recipes look like they really work, and I've heard a few comments that people like her recipes. I've heard good things about this bread, and if we weren't grain-free I would have tried it long ago.

Of course, there are other gluten-free blogs, but I don't really frequent them and mostly can't remember their names. The only other one I remember is this one. I don't think I've really spent much time there, so I can't personally recommend for or against it. I've just heard people talk.

And here's another one that I forgot to add. It's more TF, which appeals to me. I'm thinking I might try it now that we're eating some buckwheat.

I hope this helps someone.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristieB* 
Sorry, didn't mean to leave anyone out. I was just trying not to derail this thread any more than I already have.







And I can't really say there's any "wealth" here, anyway. Here's what I sent via PM:

I used to make GF bread, but haven't in a few years (we're grain-free now). I used a recipe in Bette Hagman's book The Gluten-Free Gourmet Bakes Bread. Here is the recipe. I've included the directions for using a mixer (like a Kitchenaid), but I assume that if you just have a hand mixer that would work, too. If you use a bread machine, you'll need to follow the instructions that came with the machine.

Basic Featherlight Rice Bread

Dry Ingredients:
3 cups Featherlight Rice Flour Mix (I've included it after this recipe







)
2 1/4 tsp. Xanthan gum (can substitute guar gum)
1 1/2 tsp. Unflavored gelatin
1 1/2 tsp. Egg Replacer
3/4 tsp. Salt
3 Tbs. Sugar (I left it out)
1/3 cup Dry milk powder or non-dairy substitute (I used almond meal)
2 1/4 tsp. Dry yeast granules

Wet Ingredients:
1 Egg plus 2 Whites
4 1/2 Tbs. Butter
3/4 tsp. Vinegar
1 Tbs. Honey or molasses (I used 1 1/2 Tbs. honey, since I left out the sugar)
1 1/2 cups Water (more or less)

Grease a 9" x 5" loaf pan and dust with rice flour.

The water should be 110 degrees.

For both hand mixing and machine mixing, combine the dry ingredients in a medium bowl and set aside.

In another bowl (or the bowl of your heavy-duty mixer) whisk the egg whites, butter (cut into chunks), vinegar, and honey until blended. Add most of the water to the egg mixture. The remaining water shold be added as needed after the bread has started mixing.

With the mixer turned to low, add the dry ingredients (including the yeast) a little at a time. Check to be sure the dough is the right consistency (should be like cake batter). Add more of the water as necessary. Turn the mixer to high and beat for 3 1/2 minutes. Spoon into the prepared pan, cover, and let rise ina warm place for about 35 minutes for rapid-rising yeast, 60 or more minutes for regular yeast or until the dough reaches the top of the pan. Bake in a preheated 400 degree oven for 50-60 minutes, covering after 10 minutes with aluminum foil.

Featherlight Rice Flour Mix

Rice flour (1 part)
Tapioca flour (1 part)
Cornstarch (1 part) -- I used Arrowroot
Potato flour (1 teaspoon per cup)

I used brown rice flour, and I changed the ratios, to cut back on the starch. I used 6 cups rice flour, and 1 1/2 cups each of the tapioca flour and arrowroot. It worked well for me, and we liked it, but I'm sure her ratios give a more "normal" loaf -- more like the store bought white bread.

---------------------------------

It was pretty good, as I recall. I made it in a bread machine, which is easiest, but it did use a non-stick pan. At the time I figured if we had been buying bread it would have been baked in non-stick also. Now we avoid it altogether, since we don't eat any prepared foods. It doesn't need a bread machine, though.

There are many good GF bread recipes out there these days. I have no idea how they compare to the one we used to make. I hear the one here is good. I couldn't link directly to the recipe, so click on the "+" next to breads, then click on "white bread". Everything on her website is GF, and I suspect it's all good.

A blog I've enjoyed is gluten-free girl. She explains a lot, and her recipes look like they really work, and I've heard a few comments that people like her recipes. I've heard good things about this bread, and if we weren't grain-free I would have tried it long ago.

Of course, there are other gluten-free blogs, but I don't really frequent them and mostly can't remember their names. The only other one I remember is this one. I don't think I've really spent much time there, so I can't personally recommend for or against it. I've just heard people talk.

And here's another one that I forgot to add. It's more TF, which appeals to me. I'm thinking I might try it now that we're eating some buckwheat.

I hope this helps someone.

Wow thank you!!!!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dillpicklechip* 
Does anyone here have experience taking licorice root while breastfeeding? I've seen a lot of stuff online saying that it might interfere with milk supply, is this really the case?

I didn't have any trouble with licorice reducing my supply. The concern is that it could potentially increase the nursling's blood pressure. I took a low dose & my nursling never had any trouble. I never took his BP, but it was checked at yearly well visits & his doc was never concerned.


----------



## bluets

i notice a huge difference in my own reaction to licorice root when i use capsules compared to that of a licorice root decoction. the capsules shock my system. the decoction is much more gentle - probably because it takes me most of the morning to drink it.


----------



## twinkletoesmomma

Not sure if anyone is still reading this thread, but has anyone noticed worse symptoms the week before your period. I was sleeping much better most nights, but the last few nights have been horrible again....like how it was before I started treatment. I don't know what changed.

Also, does anyone take seriphos? My dr gave it to me since I have elevated nighttime cortisol levels. It seemed to help at first, but then it seemed to make me jittery so I stopped taking it. Now, the sleeping is worse again and I'm thinking I shouldn't have stopped the seriphos. Does it take a week or so to wear off (causing insomnia again) or is it probably cycle related?


----------



## Lady Lilya

I'm still reading this thread. Took me 7 days, but I've done it!

--------

This whole thing rings a ton of bells with me. I think I am suffering from AF. But I don't think I'm that badly off.

Symptoms I do have:
*hypoglycemia, especially after lunch
*bloating, no matter what I eat, and regardless of gut-healing efforts
*very erratic body temp
*brain fog
*anxiety of varying degrees
*sleep that doesn't feel as restorative as it should be
*floaters in my vision
*sometimes feel like my nerves and muscles are inflammed
*sore knees that seem to get achy way too easily
*particularly tired from 2-4pm
*cravings for sweets
*sensation of being strangled, particularly when short on sleep
*plain water doesn't quench my thirst well, but mineral water or salted water does

Compared to the rest of you, I don't think I'm too badly off.

Some reasons why:
*energy level not so bad
*fall asleep easily
*normal menstrual cycles
*no hair loss
*using lohaire's scoring system, I usually feel around a 7 or 8
*all my muscle pain went away when I finally found a good chiro
*sex drive is very healthy


----------



## Lady Lilya

I may have thyroid issues too. I was diagnosed hypothyroid from a routine blood test when I was 22, 7 years ago, but never believed the diagnosis. All the symptoms that are supposed to come with hypo I didn't have. In fact, I tended more to the opposite side of the normal range. (ie. Tending to overweight -- I was on the low side of healthy. Low energy -- I tended to have a lot of energy, but not to the point of hyperactivity. Etc...) My doc said that was because my numbers weren't that bad, but if I didn't take Synthroid I would get fat and tired and feel cold all the time and eventually die from it. I tried the Synthroid, but found that it made me jittery. My whole body was restless and it was ruining my sleep. So I stopped cold turkey after a few months of taking it, and immediately felt normal again.

Anyway, I think that NOW i have developed some thyroid issues. My temperatures are very low. Laying around at rest, I get numbers between 97.2 and 97.5 usually. Sometimes 96.8. (I also failed the iodine patch test, and recently started taking Iodoral.)


----------



## Lady Lilya

My History:

I think I have probably had AF since early childhood, if I wasn't born with it. My mother seems fine, though. When I was younger, my father was very irritable and explosive (probably had adrenal issues himself) and life at home was very tense. I was also under huge pressure to perform in school. I was given the impression that if I wasn't perfect nobody would want me anymore. I never felt loved -- only tolerated because I pleased people and did everything they expected of me. There was also the fear that was instilled in me that my survival depended on my grades. That if I made a mistake it would jeopardize my ability to get a job and earn money to survive.

Then in high school there was a lot of pressure on me to belong to a gazillion activities that I could put on my college applications and get perfect grades, and take all the available college-level classes. Then I started dating DH. I was getting up at 5am and going to bed at 11pm for long periods of time. My whole body was pretty much shaking nonstop. It was a lot worse later in the day.

So, I was burned out by college. I was so relieved to NOT get in to Harvard and Yale. I just didn't want to work that hard. I really did a half-assed job on the application essays. So, when I went to college, I picked the major that seemed least strenuous to me. I had a lot of panic attacks and wanted to drop out. I hoped to get accidentally pregnant so I would have a reason to quit. I got it all done in 3 years because I was in a hurry to get out. Work was so much easier. Everyone was so easily impressed with my competence. I was easily getting done the work of 3 people and still goofing off a ton.

Up to this point i always had low blood pressure. But all my other numbers always came up fine. (Except that one time with the thyroid that I didn't really believe.)

Then I quit to start a family. I felt very very very fatigued from very early on in pregnancy. I couldn't do anything but lay on the couch. I couldn't even hold up a book, so I just watched TV. I gained 50lbs. Near the end my blood presure went up a bit. I had an uneventful homebirth. DS was born with a type 4 tonge tie, which we had clipped, and by about the 1 week mark things were relatively normal. Then when he was 2 months old we moved house. That was a big strain on me. I was staying up all night tending to DS and packing, and my days tendig to DS and running back and forth between the 2 apartments and arranging things and cooking double meals to pack some into the freezer at the new place. After we moved, I felt so wiped out. I got a few gray hairs and a cold sore. DS became a very miserable baby. Just tense and unhappy all the time. The only way he seemed to have relief was if I rocked him very vigorously while pacing the house rapidly. If I slowed down or stopped to eat or pee, he was in agony. Finally he got happier when he learned to crawl. But he is still, at 2yo, a very intense person. If he is hungry or tired, he is very volatile and clingy. He's frustrated a lot. He's never been a great sleeper. Lack of good sleep has been a big strain on me.

Having DS has been a big strain on my marriage too. DH has been disappointed in me that it has been so difficult for me. He acknowledges that DS is challenging, but things that is my fault for spoiling him. He has never wanted to help carry any of my load, because he thinks it is all my fault that the load is too heavy for me. Either because I badly managed things, or because I am just a weak and defective person to begin with. DH and I fought very intelsely for about a year, stopping about 8 months ago. Well, not completely stopped, but the fights are getting less and less frequent. He still says he has no faith in my abilities. I still feel like I can't count on him to be on my side in a tough situation.

So, since DS was born, my digestion has been off. My bowel movements are regular and appear to be healthy, though. I can't really pinpoint what is wrong. Also, I had been having migraines since DS was about 6 months old.

Then in March of this year I had a horrible stomach illness. I've never been that sick before in my life. Afterwords, I felt so drained. I felt like there were trillions of tiny holes in my body where a nutrient used to be stored.

Since then, my digestion has gotten worse. Still ideal bowel movements. But I get so bloated and gassy. At first it was after some meals. Then after all meals. And then pretty much constantly.

Also, that is when I started getting anxiety. I didn't realize what it was at first. When the anxiety started, the migraines reduced dramatically in frequency and severity, until now I can just feel a slight change in my body that resembles some of the sensations that used to come with the migraines.

Also, I am so much more wiped out by disturbed sleep than I was even just a few months ago. I feel like I have been hit by a bus when DS wakes up for 3 hours in the night and we watch tv until he falls back asleep. I continue to feel crappy the rest of the day, even when we've gone back to sleep and gotten caught up.


----------



## Lady Lilya

What i've been doing:

So, about 3 months ago, I started drinking the nutrient tea recipe that I got from mtn.mama. And shortly after I started drinking green smoothies. After starting those, I felt a sort of cooled and soothed sensation everywhere in my body.

Then it was 2 months ago that I realized I was having anxiety. I immediately quit caffiene and gluten and casein and sugar and soy and corn. (From 2003 until about 9 months ago, I was 100% free of sugar and refined grains and soy and all artificial stuff, and mostly avoiding corn. I don't know if allowing small amounts of sugar and soy was a contributing factor to my huge digestive illness in March.) I didn't feel any different from going GF and CF. After 3 weeks, I decided to add back in dairy, only in the form of kefir. I didn't feel any different from the kefir either.

Then I failed the spit test for yeast, so I did 10 days of oil of oregano. Afterwards, I felt like my mouth was less fuzzy. And I passed the spit test. But no other changes. And no die-off symptoms.

I've been slowly adding in new supplements. I was already taking vitamin D for a while before the other changes. Before I did the OOO, I started taking vitamin C and milk thistle. After that, I added magnesium. Then I waited a while and added biotin. Then a few days ago I added iodine. Next one I was planning to add in a couple of days was pantothenic acid (B5). I would have added it before adding the biotin, but the bottle I ordered hadn't arrived yet. And then I will add in B6 and B12 at some point (when they arrive). And zinc if I fail the taste test. Oh, I also got some brazil nuts for the selenium. And I have been drinking bone broth when I remember. And don't forget I am drinking that nutrient tea.

--------

Looking ahead:

I am really frustrated reading all these things about what you should do to help your adrenals. All the recommended diet things I have been doing all along. The sleep is not in my control because I have a little one. And my efforts to level off my blood sugar have not been working at all. I eat, and still feel as if I didn't.

I am also really upset that AF might interfere with our ability to have another child when we planned. We've already delayed it because DS has been such a challenge and I am not at all recovered from his baby-hood. We were hoping to have another before he is 4. DH would be very disappointed in me if my body isn't ready by next summer. It would put even more negativity into our marriage with the theme that he is disappointed and I am defective.

I'm going to talk to my gyno about wanting some tests in advance of trying to conceive. (We want to conceive a year from now.) So I am making a list. Then I would like to find a ND who is good for AF and bring my test results. Whatever tests my gyno won't go for I will have to ask the ND instead.

Any idea how to find a good ND here in Staten Island NYC? Or neighboring Brooklyn or Manhattan?

So, what tests should I ask for?
*Adrenal Stress Index saliva test
*everythign thyroid related
*minerals like sodium, potassium, zinc, iron, calcium, magnesium
*vitamin D
*heavy metals
*cholesterol
*MTHFR dna test
*anything else that might be informative in regards to clogged detox pathways? (homocysteine? ammonia? histamine levels?)
*B12?
*stuff I completely haven't thought of?

Also, how should I really be eating? I've been kinda low grain for the last 2 months, and not sure that is doing any good for me. Blood sugar issues seem to have gotten worse.


----------



## Dillpicklechip

Lady Lilya, I hope things get better for you! It sounds like you've been through a lot.









You mentioned that you are doing better than others with AF because you have normal menstrual cycles...and I wanted to ask everyone, are difficult menstrual cycles a component of AF? Because over the past few years as my AF has worsened, my menstrual cycles have gotten worse too and I've been wondering if there was a connection. (My periods are sometimes 2.5 weeks long, and the worst few days are insanely heavy, to the point where I can't leave the house. I get incredibly moody and irritable for almost a week before my period too, which means I'm only in a decent mood and not bleeding for a very small fraction of the month!)

Sorry if this is a stupid question. I still have a lot to learn about AF and I can't afford to see a ND, so I'm just learning as much as I can from places like this.


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## LeahS

Hello Im new to the boards, my name is Leah. I have adrenal fatigue and no thyroid after having it removed due to cancer. I was reading some posts about beets, are they particularly good/bad for adrenals?

Does anyone here use Pregnenolone? I have a problem with water retention in my legs and was wondering how to help it. I use Celtic Sea salt which helps a lot.

Thanks


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## Lady Lilya

Dill, This thread is huge, but I clearly remember stuff about hormones going out of whack. Particularly low progesterone is what stuck in my head. Your symptoms sound like what was happening to my sister for a while. She went to a gyno, and he said she had a cyst on her ovary, and he could feel it. He put her on birth control pills and it went away. My mind is trying to put 2 and 2 together, and theorizing that my sister (who appears to me to also have adrenal fatigue) probably had low progesterone and the progesterone in the pill helped relieve symptoms for that reason.


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## tanyalynn

Leigh, willing to copy/paste to a new thread? Either here or in Allergies? I have some ideas on tests, but I promised myself I'd go to bed on time, and I bet a few more people who don't normally read here would chime in as well.








(first time I've gotten to use that icon)


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## sbgrace

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lady Lilya* 
I'm still reading this thread. Took me 7 days, but I've done it!

--------

This whole thing rings a ton of bells with me. I think I am suffering from AF. But I don't think I'm that badly off.

Symptoms I do have:
*hypoglycemia, especially after lunch
*bloating, no matter what I eat, and regardless of gut-healing efforts
*very erratic body temp
**brain fog
*anxiety of varying degrees*
**sleep that doesn't feel as restorative as it should be*
*floaters in my vision
**sometimes feel like my nerves and muscles are inflammed
*sore knees that seem to get achy way too easily*
*particularly tired from 2-4pm
**cravings for sweets
*sensation of being strangled, particularly when short on sleep*
*plain water doesn't quench my thirst well, but mineral water or salted water does

Compared to the rest of you, I don't think I'm too badly off.

Some reasons why:
*energy level not so bad
*fall asleep easily
*normal menstrual cycles
*no hair loss
*using lohaire's scoring system, I usually feel around a 7 or 8
*all my muscle pain went away when I finally found a good chiro
*sex drive is very healthy










I would suggest you look into being tested for sleep apnea. A lot of what you mention is consistent with that and matches up with my own symptoms. I was shocked to find I have mild sleep apnea along with other issues. Sleep apnea is hard on the adrenal function among other things.
http://www.endfatigue.com/articles/Article_uars.html
Here is one article on something called upper airway resistance syndrome. I likely have this but luckily I guess I actually also had apnea during my sleep study at the hospital. I'm wearing a mouth device to sleep. It's very comfortable, insurance covered it, and finally my sleep is restorative and alot of what you wrote (that mimics me) is going away too. Another thing to check are vitamin D levels (25 (OH) D) and maybe some other things as well given the nerve and muscle issues. What types of muscle pain were/are you having? I'm going to try to put together a post of things that cause those types of issues.
But that feeling of being strangled...you may well have upper airway resistance or sleep apnea. I was very similar in that I also felt that way while awake after a bad night of sleep. The doctor I'm seeing told me it's common in those with the upper airway resistance.

OK, I just read your follow up posts.
You need that thyroid checked/corrected for sure and I see that on your list.
I would like to get some information together for you because I think you need some tests that aren't all that common. What you are describing mimics me a lot and I've got some metabolic things doctors often don't know to look for that I think you might want tested for. The treatments are actually things you will feel comfortable with. So worth knowing. What types of muscle symptoms do you have. I've got to go to bed but I'll get some information together to post back.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lady Lilya* 
Dill, This thread is huge, but I clearly remember stuff about hormones going out of whack. Particularly low progesterone is what stuck in my head. Your symptoms sound like what was happening to my sister for a while. She went to a gyno, and he said she had a cyst on her ovary, and he could feel it. He put her on birth control pills and it went away. My mind is trying to put 2 and 2 together, and theorizing that my sister (who appears to me to also have adrenal fatigue) probably had low progesterone and the progesterone in the pill helped relieve symptoms for that reason.

From here:

Quote:

"Breast, ovarian, and skin cysts - In addition to fixing almost all cases of breast cysts, iodine also has a remarkable healing effect on ovarian cysts, and even on skin cysts. (For the latter, I recommend rubbing in iodine right over the cyst.)"
Weren't you also concerned with thyroid issues in your family, Leigh? I'd totally be checking into iodine.


----------



## Lady Lilya

Tanya, I guess I should copy my posts to my All About Me thread in Allergies.

Rachelle, I'll look into upper airway resistance and sleep apnea.

JR, that cyst my sister had was about 8 years ago, and is all gone now. She feels like crap recently, but she eats nothing but crap. She's always eaten nothing but crap. She doesn't have any insurance right now, and doesn't want to do any of the work of investigating her own health here on MDC. She just wants to be in denial about it.

In my case, I think my iodine deficiency arose relatively recently. Let's see what happens when I get my thyroid tested while also taking Iodoral. If my thyroid works fine with enough iodine, then I don't consider that a problem.


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## Pookietooth

Would Iodoroal work for Hashimoto's? I have two friends with it who are on Armour.


----------



## Dillpicklechip

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lady Lilya* 
Dill, This thread is huge, but I clearly remember stuff about hormones going out of whack. Particularly low progesterone is what stuck in my head. Your symptoms sound like what was happening to my sister for a while. She went to a gyno, and he said she had a cyst on her ovary, and he could feel it. He put her on birth control pills and it went away. My mind is trying to put 2 and 2 together, and theorizing that my sister (who appears to me to also have adrenal fatigue) probably had low progesterone and the progesterone in the pill helped relieve symptoms for that reason.

Thank you Lilya. I will look into the possibility of low progesterone. Off to google...


----------



## bluets

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dillpicklechip* 
Lady Lilya, I hope things get better for you! It sounds like you've been through a lot.









You mentioned that you are doing better than others with AF because you have normal menstrual cycles...and I wanted to ask everyone, are difficult menstrual cycles a component of AF? Because over the past few years as my AF has worsened, my menstrual cycles have gotten worse too and I've been wondering if there was a connection. (My periods are sometimes 2.5 weeks long, and the worst few days are insanely heavy, to the point where I can't leave the house. I get incredibly moody and irritable for almost a week before my period too, which means I'm only in a decent mood and not bleeding for a very small fraction of the month!)

Sorry if this is a stupid question. I still have a lot to learn about AF and I can't afford to see a ND, so I'm just learning as much as I can from places like this.

they can be. pregnenolone is a precursor to progesterone which can be converted to cortisol; indeed, it IS converted if you are low on cortisol. i've had much success at normalizing super duper short cycles with a product called Femarone-17.

HOWEVER, you should try to get a salivary hormone panel done first -you can really mess things up by supplementing with the wrong hormone.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Okay, just feeling so overwhelmed right now. Cannot relax despite my best efforts.
Between having a 2 mo, a 2yo and a 9yo, my foster mom dying and burning supper tonight, I feel like I'm losing my mind. It's so sadly pathetic. I was doing okay until I burned supper. It's almost funny how it feels like one tiny little thing is what pushes you over the edge. And almost funny how it feels like just when I'm starting to get a grip on things something else happens.
I'm having an anxiety attack over burning supper. It's so stupid. You'd think that would've hit this afternoon while I was missing my mom's funeral, but no. It's over burning supper.
Would be nice, for my adrenals' sake, to get some kind of break.


----------



## mom61508

So sorry for your loss








I feel for you because I only have one LO and feel ya!!!!
I get anxiety over everything!!!!

What helpd me?

Fresh cut bright colored flowers around the home







They relax me along with a glass of wine


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Would Iodoroal work for Hashimoto's? I have two friends with it who are on Armour.

Just saw this.
The answer is: that's controversial. You should be under a doctor's care if you have Hashi's, and the doctor should be one familiar with iodine protocol. Check out The Iodine thread for possibly more info and maybe The Thyroid Thread.
I have Hashi's and I'm on Armour. There isn't a doctor familiar with iodine protocol in my town.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
So sorry for your loss








I feel for you because I only have one LO and feel ya!!!!
I get anxiety over everything!!!!

What helpd me?

Fresh cut bright colored flowers around the home







They relax me along with a glass of wine









Yeah, I've been considering the wine in a bath. The bath alone and the wine alone have not helped. The wine is probably a bad idea anyway for anyone with adrenal issues.


----------



## Lady Lilya

Is wine bad? I've been having a little bit here and there.


----------



## Lady Lilya

JR, did you literally burn dinner? Were there flames? Or do you just mean blackened and with a bitter taste? Because tonight I actually achieved flames.


----------



## Lady Lilya

I've always wanted to take a bath in champagne. That would require a lot of champagne, though. And I guess I wouldn't want it to be cold, or even room temp. The bubbles probably come out when you heat it. And the alcohol would evaporate into the air and intoxicate you. So, maybe not the best idea after all.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

My entire dinner was black and charred. I mean, I've managed to char say the bottom of stuff before but not the entire pot of stuff. There was smoke but no flames.
I'm not sure about wine.. Alcohol needs to be detoxed, so it uses up nutrients.... That's the only reason I say it can't be good exactly.


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## Metasequoia

I drink wine - organic, sulfite-free Cabernet. Sometimes I just need to kick back & relax. It's not that often, but when I open a bottle, I have to drink it quickly since it doesn't have preservatives & being single, that takes me three consecutive nights with a big glass each night.









Reading about the struggles with anxiety made me think, what do I do now to avoid anxiety? The answer is exercise. Anxiety was the first thing that disappeared when I began this healing journey & since I've started exercising, I've become aware of how I start to feel more edgy if I don't exercise. I like to work out every other day & if I go for longer, I start to get those spiraling negative thoughts - usually hopelessness or worry. I haven't seen my ND in months & he doesn't know I've taken up exercise...but I don't know how something that makes me feel so good could be bad. I try to balance it out with good sleep & good, nourishing food. Liver has been a lifesaver & I actually feel like I sleep much more deeply when I exercise.


----------



## Lady Lilya

Metasequoia, I usually take a walk with DS and the neighbors every evening. Their DS is 5 months older. We walk down by the water, and then we walk to the 2 different playgrounds, stopping to play in each. It is nice.


----------



## bluets

hate to tell you... alcohol may act as a nervous system depressant but it also revs up your (depleted) adrenals. if you're trying for as quick a recovery as possible, you may have to lose all alcohol.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Yeah, I've been considering the wine in a bath. The bath alone and the wine alone have not helped. The wine is probably a bad idea anyway for anyone with adrenal issues.









Well i look at it this way....
If wine relaxes you and tones down your stress level then I would think that would be beneficial. IMO anyway







lesser of 2 evils and i think stress is worse. Of course don't drink a bottle lol and the wine i get is always organic with no detectable sulfates


----------



## Dillpicklechip

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lady Lilya* 
JR, did you literally burn dinner? Were there flames? Or do you just mean blackened and with a bitter taste? Because tonight I actually achieved flames.

Oh man, you guys are making me feel better. I am so scatterbrained these days that I REGULARLY burn stuff on the stove. I mean, literally, almost every single day I burn something. It's pathetic.


----------



## Metasequoia

Found this on Dr. Lam's site about adrenal fatigue & muscle pain!!:

Quote:

2. Musculoskeletal System Breakdown. Collagen and protein are broken down in a catabolic state of function during adrenal fatigue. This can lead to chronic pain syndromes, joint pains, chronic fatigue, and fibromyalgia.

Glucocorticoids, primarily cortisol, are steroidal hormones produced by the adrenal glands in response to stress. Cortisol output is usually high in stage 1 and 2 of adrenal fatigue. As adrenal fatigue progresses, cortisol output is often pushed to its limit. A chronically high cortisol output leads to a state of catabolism or the breakdown of protein in order to generate energy.

The cycle of breakdown or catabolism is normally followed by a process of rebuilding, or anabolism. In adrenal fatigue, the rebuilding process, normally carried out by androgens, is overwhelmed by the amount of catabolic hormones. The rebuilding process is slowed and retarded. Muscles broken down are not adequately replaced. Collagen is broken down without significant replenishment. Outwardly, wrinkles starts to develop as premature aging sets in. Internally, organ and muscle breakdown lead to chronic muscle and joint pains of unknown origin, especially after streneous exercise or heavy lifting.

As the collagen structure of internal organs breakdown, their function is compromised. Gastrointestinal track motility and contraction forces are reduced. Adrenal fatigue is often associated with the poor ability to digest protein. Common symptoms include indigestion and irritable bowel syndrome. The amount of acid production may not be sufficient to help break down food, resulting in further improper digestion.

It is no surprise that secondary fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome is commonly associated with adrenal exhaustion. Many have postulated that adrenal fatigue often precedes fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue. These may indeed be part of many symptoms of adrenal dysfunction.
Hey - I'm freaking out over here. I recently noticed that my hair is thinning right at the peak (just above my forehead, in the middle - kind of a hard place to hide.)

I'm getting that hot, dizzy feeling like when this adrenal stuff first started - the panicky-anxiety feeling. I hate that. All over stupid thinning hair.

I've always had very thick hair.

I read that it's associated with PCOS, which I've freaked out about before because I'm a hairy-ape woman & because I sometimes have what feel like insulin resistance symptoms. I did a fasting insulin test that came back awesome, my cholesterol rocks, I'm not overweight & am super fertile. My cycles are finally regular (31-33 days every cycle) with regular ovulation. I had one ovarian cyst about 7 or 8 years ago that ruptured but other than that, no obvious ovarian issues.
Since cutting out gluten, cutting back on carbs/sugar & supporting my adrenals, any insulin resistance-like symptoms have gone away.

The only thing I've changed is adding exercise. I work out 3 times a week & have noticed a lot more muscle tone & a definite boost in emotional well being.

Do you think the exercise could have triggered something?

I'm going to seriously watch the carbs & sugar. What else can I do? I really don't want to take something like Metformin (& haven't even been dx'd yet) & when I talked to my ND about this, he said I was already doing everything he'd suggest as far as diet.)

I read on Dr. Lam's site (in the same article that I linked to above), that estrogen dominance can cause PCOS because our bodies convert the excess estrogen to testosterone & we don't have enough progesterone to balance the other hormones. This makes me wonder about taking natural progesterone (which I've never tried.) He suggests milk thistle extract to help the liver get rid of excess estrogen, specifically an extract known as silymarin.

I also read that saw palmetto & vitex extract can help with PCOS. My ND said something about saw palmetto when I spoke to him about possible PCOS. I wonder if I can take it while bfing?

Someone help me out here!


----------



## bluets

calcium d-glucarate is also supposed to help with excess estrogen.

Dr Rind's website recommends sipping on water + amino acids all day, and spiking warm beverages with gelatin to provide sufficient materials for protein formation.

High doses of vitamin C should also help with connective tissue - the collagen pathway is vitamin C dependent, and also dependent on copper.

The topical natural progesterone works well. I use Femarone-17 and it regularized my cycle during the very first cycle I took it. GLA from borage oil or evening primrose oil would also help in regularizing cycles, but not to the same extent (or in the same way) as topical progesterone. Of course, correcting the underlying adrenal problem will regularize cycles for the long term because of the pituitary-adrenal connection.

As for anxiety specifically, GABA is a wonderful thing. I use it on as as-needed basis and find it immensely helpful. When I have more time, I hope to figure out the GABA pathway, but for my rare moments when I need it, the GABA works well. Perhaps your exercise is boosting something in that pathway.


----------



## Tanibani

I don't remember if I posted my story or not. I'm 40. I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue 3? years ago. The awesome female doctor (did the whole saliva/hormone testing) prescribed adrenal supplements and they helped a ton. Then I ran out, then I never got around to going for a re-check in January.

Around May? DH, me and one of the kids were sick AGAIN. So I called my naturopath and she wanted me and DH to come in for a full screen (tests) to see what was up. DH declined and I had blood drawn.

Long story short, my IRON LEVELS were ridiculously low.







She said most women bleed it out every month and don't realize that's why they are so tired.







I had low Vit D, low magnesium, was in need of PROTEIN (she recommended Trader Joe's Non-fat Goat Milk yogurt b/c it contains WAY more protein than regular yogurt







) and B-12.

I've been taking Iron Supplements since then and MAN I FEEL AWESOME.

Evidence-based therapeutics Inc. - Iron Complex
E-based T - Tyler Foliplex w/ B-12
Ferritin Bioavilable iron

and some Magnesium supplement at night.

I also read a GREAT adrenal fatigue book, as suggested by Dr. Maldonado =
http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/

I've been reading Louise Hay's book and doing daily affirmations:
I love my life
I love my family
X is easy to do
I am a loving person
I am grateful for my beautiful surroundings, safe home, good car, etc...
I am healthy... blah, blah, blah

Just consciously saying good things to myself instead of anything remotely negative.

I joined a CROSSFIT and LOVE







: the workouts. (The actors in the film 300 used Crossfit to get in shape.) Pilates did nothing for me. Find something that works for you. I look FORWARD to the workouts, something I never experienced before. I love feeling the blood pump in my veins, the warmth in my body and it reminds me I'm happy to be alive.

So that is my update. My naturopath did a deeper blood analysis/whole body (she said most internists won't) to figure out what was up with my immune system and why our family was so sick this past winter.

In general, I feel way more positive about life than I have in a long time.


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## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tanibani* 
I don't remember if I posted my story or not. I'm 40. I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue 3? years ago. The awesome female doctor (did the whole saliva/hormone testing) prescribed adrenal supplements and they helped a ton. Then I ran out, then I never got around to going for a re-check in January.

Around May? DH, me and one of the kids were sick AGAIN. So I called my naturopath and she wanted me and DH to come in for a full screen (tests) to see what was up. DH declined and I had blood drawn.

Long story short, my IRON LEVELS were ridiculously low.







She said most women bleed it out every month and don't realize that's why they are so tired.







I had low Vit D, low magnesium, was in need of PROTEIN (she recommended Trader Joe's Non-fat Goat Milk yogurt b/c it contains WAY more protein than regular yogurt







) and B-12.

I've been taking Iron Supplements since then and MAN I FEEL AWESOME.

Evidence-based therapeutics Inc. - Iron Complex
E-based T - Tyler Foliplex w/ B-12
Ferritin Bioavilable iron

and some Magnesium supplement at night.

I also read a GREAT adrenal fatigue book, as suggested by Dr. Maldonado =
http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/

I've been reading Louise Hay's book and doing daily affirmations:
I love my life
I love my family
X is easy to do
I am a loving person
I am grateful for my beautiful surroundings, safe home, good car, etc...
I am healthy... blah, blah, blah

Just consciously saying good things to myself instead of anything remotely negative.

I joined a CROSSFIT and LOVE







: the workouts. (The actors in the film 300 used Crossfit to get in shape.) Pilates did nothing for me. Find something that works for you. I look FORWARD to the workouts, something I never experienced before. I love feeling the blood pump in my veins, the warmth in my body and it reminds me I'm happy to be alive.

So that is my update. My naturopath did a deeper blood analysis/whole body (she said most internists won't) to figure out what was up with my immune system and why our family was so sick this past winter.

In general, I feel way more positive about life than I have in a long time.

Wow your ND sounds great! YOu wouldn't happen to be in AZ or Md would you lol????
How did you find her?
And that's wonderful you are feeling so great


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## Pookietooth

I didn't know there was a non-fat goat yogurt. I buy the regular kind of goat milk yogurt, sometimes from Trader Joe's. Have to check to see the fat content.


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## quelindo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tanibani* 
I don't remember if I posted my story or not. I'm 40. I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue 3? years ago. The awesome female doctor (did the whole saliva/hormone testing) prescribed adrenal supplements and they helped a ton. Then I ran out, then I never got around to going for a re-check in January.

Around May? DH, me and one of the kids were sick AGAIN. So I called my naturopath and she wanted me and DH to come in for a full screen (tests) to see what was up. DH declined and I had blood drawn.

Long story short, my IRON LEVELS were ridiculously low.







She said most women bleed it out every month and don't realize that's why they are so tired.







I had low Vit D, low magnesium, was in need of PROTEIN (she recommended Trader Joe's Non-fat Goat Milk yogurt b/c it contains WAY more protein than regular yogurt







) and B-12.

Do you mind sharing exactly what blood tests you had run? I'm going to see my family practitioner for my annual exam soon, and I think she would check whatever I asked her to check.


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## lil_miss_understood

Oh, I forgot to say....
Remind me that I now know who to call when I decide to get adventurous and try flambe.


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## ajillfisch

I think I have posted my story in the past but in short:

Ever since my second son's birth two yers ago I have been incredibly worse with food sensitivities, to the point I can now eat very little. Foolishly I ate a ton of sugar for about the first six months because I was so hungry tandem nursing and I think it badly messed me up.

I have had a couple of appointments with the ND at Clymer's - he put me on pregnenolone which seemed to cure my insomnia for the first time in 12 years. Only now, it no longer works. (I was in stage 4 AF at the time). I haven't continued with him due to money issues, but I did do the allergy testing and I was allergic to eggs which I was eating almost every day. I don't do well with carbs but I find it hard to come up with protein meals and without becoming allergic to yet another thing from eating it too frequently. Plus, I feel starved if I don't eat carbs.

I have tried a variety of supplements, most notably digestive enzymes, some of which were at first miraculously helpful. But whenever I try to change the regimen to improve things that are still problems, I lose the benefits of what I am already taking and for some reason can never recover them.

My worst problem is horrible, terrible, exorcist-like outbursts, mostly with my older son (now 4 1/2). I am so saddened and ashamed to say I can now imagine how people beat their children to death because they spilled the milk (not that I beat him, I am just that crazy screaming and unable to stop myself). I can't believe the words that come out of my mouth. It is not all the time like in the beginning but I am so discouraged that no matter how much better I seem for periods, a crazy outburst is always just around the corner.

Lately I am also feeling depressed and suicidal, which I have not in a very long time. I suspect I have become allergic to wheat as my sister reacts to it that way and I have been feeling off if I eat whole wheat. Whatever the explanation, this situation is really, really tough and it is going on so much too long. I am so distressed at the harm I must be doing to my poor kids.But it's so hard to figure out exactly what's what.

Though I do have family and paternal (theirs) support I am the sole caretaker of my kids and between that, never sleeping and financial worries it is hard to eliminate the stress. Yet there have been quite a few times (supplement based) where it all seemed really doable and okay. So it's really my body that's the problem. Is this some type of postpartum hormonal thing? I am 43 and have not yet gotten my period since my son was born, but they also both nurse a lot.

Thank you for any thoughts. I am wearing out with this.


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## WuWei

ajillfisch, do you have/had mercury fillings in your teeth? Have you had significant weight loss while nursing? With food chemical sensitivity, I'd do several things first, besides avoidance, to detox more effectively.

Epsom salt baths, 2cups in a tub, every day. Soak for 30 minutes, take children in with you, do it. The magnesium sulfate will help to open some specific detox pathways, lowering your toxic load.

Water kefir, 1 teaspoon a day. Gradually increase by 1 teaspoon each week.

Bubbies sauerkraut juice, 1 teaspoon a day. Gradually increase by 1 teaspoon, each week.

Do you know about Bach Flower Remedies? Rescue Remedy?

Do 1-3 Green Smoothies every day. Just water, fruit and greens in a blender. The food folate is critical for mood regulation.

Fermented CLO for the EFAs. Let me know if you need more specifics.

Btw, any midline-defects, such as tongue-tie, butt dimples, septate uterus, cleft, narrow palates, etc?

Gut healing is integral to hormonal balance. Where to start? Help 101

Have you had saliva testing done?

Pat


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## ajillfisch

WuWei, thank you for your suggestions. Very fortunately, I've realized my pregnenolone level was too high and returned to my prior dose, thereby solving my most recent problem of depression and horrible irritability. Also I can sleep again!

I have always been extremely sensitive and probably always full of allergies, as my family is. Until last year, I avoided supplements like the plague due to many bad experiences.

I am not able to take most synthetic vitamins. I know folic acid doesn't agree with me - I have not been able to understand the methylation discussion but perhaps that has something to do with it. Water kefir I've tried, also epsom salts, also Rescue Remedy as well as other flower remedies - I think the alcohol derived tinctures disagree with me, as vanilla does.

I also cannot tolerate anything acidic due to interstitial cystitis (sort of an autoimmune bladder disease) - diet recommendations for that suggest that there is a metabolic deficiency that results in high histamine and ammonia levels with many foods. I felt amazing after one capsule of hydrochloric acid, but by the second I had bladder pain. Same thing with GSE for presumed yeast - that time I had two courses of antibiotics because the MD did not think it mattered that my urine culture was negative.

In short - frustrating, but I'd be interested in learning more about the green smoothies and clo if you could pm me.

What did you mean about midline defects, btw?


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## WuWei

ajillfisch, post an "About Me" in the Allergies forum. A couple of detox pathways jump out regarding the folic acid causing issues and the interstitial cystitis, which is associated with salicylate levels. Check out I Broke My Bladder: Inducing Interstitial Cystitis.

Basically, if you open one detox pathway but not the others, you induce more reactions/symptoms. The combination of nutrients is the key. I recommend getting bio-available nutrients from whole foods.

I'd focus on natural process of increasing stomach acid, nutrients to open detox pathways and whole food probiotics (*in small gradual amounts*).

Consider reading: whoMe's MTHFR, salicylates and adrenals. This talks about midline issues. Also, Detox and biochemistry threads and links .

Start here to learn about *detox pathways*:
http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/t...bstacle-course

And here are a few informal *videos about detox pathways*:
http://heal-thyself.ning.com/video/video

and here about evaluating digestion and stomach acid (*beet "pink pee" test*): http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/topics/the-beet-test

*Foods to Help Phase I and Phase II Detoxification*:
http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/topics/nutrient-dense-foods?page=2&commentId=\
2814160%3AComment%3A655&x=1#2814160Comment655

*check out www.eatingcultures.com to try and guess on some of your detox pathways, and figure out which nutrients will be important for you. And www.detoxpuzzle.com to identify some of your detox pathways, nutrient deficiencies/needs.

Green smoothies.

**Where online do you order your blue ice CLO?*
Pat*
*


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## ajillfisch

WuWei, thanks so much for the info. I meant to ask, can I detox while breastfeeding?

Also, re: mercury amalgams, I do have them. My mother (who has a mouthful and did breastfeed me for a couple of months) was treated for elevated mercury levels not long ago - without removing the amalgams, though. I don't know specifically about what she did, however.


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## ajillfisch

And about the pink pee with beets - I don't know about my pee but I used to think I was bleeding with poop (sorry TMI)! I don't know if that's related or another (or no) problem?


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## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ajillfisch* 
Also, re: mercury amalgams, I do have them. *My mother (who has a mouthful and did breastfeed me for a couple of months) was treated for elevated mercury levels not long ago* - without removing the amalgams, though. I don't know specifically about what she did, however.

I take it she was having health issues that she thinks are mercury-related? Because this stuff runs in families, in my family both my parents are affected. Do you feel like your health strengths/weaknesses are similar to your mom's?

I don't think the biggest transfer is during breastfeeding, I think it's in-utero exposure that is the the biggest factor.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ajillfisch* 
WuWei, thanks so much for the info. I meant to ask, can I detox while breastfeeding?

We do. We "can". We biologically must detox chemical byproduct of food every day. We don't want to detox "too much". The fine line is invisible; but we do get reactions when we do "too much". We don't want to actively detox into baby, obviously. And breastmilk is a detox pathway.

Quote:

Also, re: mercury amalgams, I do have them. My mother (who has a mouthful and did breastfeed me for a couple of months) was treated for elevated mercury levels not long ago - without removing the amalgams, though. I don't know specifically about what she did, however.
How many mercury fillings? You probably need to start your own thread and link it here. Were any of them removed within the year before/during pregnancy or nursing?

Pat


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ajillfisch* 
And about the *pink pee with beets* - I don't know about my pee but I used to think I was bleeding with poop (sorry TMI)! I don't know if that's related or another (or no) problem?

Pink pee = insufficient stomach acid. Yellow pee does NOT mean sufficient stomach acid, however.

Pink poop = more oxylates than calcium in diet, iirc. Happens, not critical, not preferable.

Pat


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## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I don't think the biggest transfer is during breastfeeding, I think it's in-utero exposure that is the the biggest factor.

Interesting. I believe that the rapid weight loss of the TED contributed to detoxing my mercury stores into my breastmilk. But, I'm more of the belief that implanted mercury fillings are able to be detoxed by a nutrient dense diet.

Pat


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## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 

I don't think the biggest transfer is during breastfeeding, I think it's in-utero exposure that is the the biggest factor.

curious as to why you think so? The placenta is a better barrier than the breast, and generally people *should* be nursing longer than the gestational period. So weaker barrier that is meant to be a channel of detoxification and longer period of exposure-in theory-seems to *me* (and I have no proof on this one) to be a bigger factor.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
curious as to why you think so? The placenta is a better barrier than the breast, and generally people *should* be nursing longer than the gestational period. So weaker barrier that is meant to be a channel of detoxification and longer period of exposure-in theory-seems to *me* (and I have no proof on this one) to be a bigger factor.

I guess the things I've read, and at this point I don't remember all the places, talk about active transfer of minerals like iron to the fetus in the last trimester, and the discussion went along the lines of metals like mercury and arsenic and such being transferred along as well. As an active process, not as a passive just-because-you're-inside-mom type of thing.

And for me, it seems there's a lot of crap, to use a scientifically precise term, that's not circulating right now, but is still stored in various tissues, but if an active transfer process were going on, I think could be problematic for a fetus.

If we do transfer more while nursing, that's pretty scary. I know there are many benefits to nursing, but for people not aware of their health issues, and not intending to do any work to help their kids lower their metal levels, that seems scary to me. That would seem, on a population level, to really increase the risk of health issues in a sub-section of kids. Wouldn't this imply that extended nursing, past some point, would be a risk factor for ASDs?

It'd be interesting if I'm wrong on this, that really seems to make the breastfeeding/no-breastfeeding argument trickier.


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## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 

It'd be interesting if I'm wrong on this, that really seems to make the breastfeeding/no-breastfeeding argument trickier.

welcome to my world.









No, you are correct that there are potential problems in utero, but I can't say at this point if it's less or more devastating than through breastmilk. I'm not sure anyone can because of the variables. I have a LOT of questions that I'm having a hard time getting answers for. That, and anecdotal evidence that makes me shudder regularly.


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## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Wouldn't this imply that extended nursing, past some point, would be a risk factor for ASDs?

It'd be interesting if I'm wrong on this, that really seems to make the breastfeeding/no-breastfeeding argument trickier.

risk factor for *creating* ASD?

or risky _FOR_ ASD kids' health?

I believe I did "chelate" mercury into ds while nursing. Unfortunately. Would the alternative formula have been better for his gut/brain for 2 years?







We ate a very clean diet, on a continuum. Mamas less conscious of their diet may not have nursed as long because he was very reactive to my milk, until we eliminated a LOT of culprit foods. I'm ambivalent about having weaned at 2. And glad we weaned, now that I know about all of the mercury dumping, and the nutrient deficiencies I probably exacerbated in myself. But, I don't believe that his nutrients are nearly as deficient as mine, *because* he nursed. And no way do I believe that there are more nutrients in formula than breastmilk.

Also, it seems that my generation got a bigger load of mercury directly, *on top of not being breastfed*. (perhaps/probably less mercury for me for not being breastfed by my mercury-filled mom- first time I ever looked at it this way!). Direct mercury exposure is a more difficult position from which to recover, perhaps, than from a mama with mercury who nursed. At least we ain't adding mercury to ds's mouth!

Pat


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## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
welcome to my world.









No, you are correct that there are potential problems in utero, but I can't say at this point if it's less or more devastating than through breastmilk. I'm not sure anyone can because of the variables. I have a LOT of questions that I'm having a hard time getting answers for.

That was not a very illuminating answer!









As for this part

Quote:

That, and anecdotal evidence that makes me shudder regularly.
ignorance is bliss (for the non-healthcare providers in the world, anyway).

How are we, as a people, going to get out of this? I mean, for everyone who figures out they've got a health problem, they still need to find a way to get better that doesn't make them way worse instead? Even with the drawbacks, known and unknown, of the approach I'm using, I still feel that the kids and I will be far better off after we're done. But I see a lot out there being advised where I'm really not sure that's the case. And that's only the people who realize there's some health problem that they can address (vs Prozac and whatnot for the symptoms of the problem). That's really depressing. Add in worsening nutrition over the years, and each generation getting more toxic load than the last, breastfeeding or not, and yikes.


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## mom61508

I have been wondering this very thing! I don't know If I have a lot of mercury or not BUT I know I have a lot of health issues and DD has quite a few herself SO i always wonder that maybe she would be better off with a home made formula??????????? She's 14 months old so she nursed for quite awhile abd I'm happy nursing but I'm worried about her and myself.


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## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
risk factor for *creating* ASD?

or risky _FOR_ ASD kids' health?

Both. Shifting some kids from not enough behaviors to qualify for a diagnosis to having more behaviors that now do qualify for a diagnosis. And as a long-term risk for their health, since the typical person out there, at least my impression, increases their toxic load daily by exposure to too much stuff, and not enough nutrition coming in to deal with it. I see that as a significant long-term health issue.

I believe I did "chelate" mercury into ds while nursing. Unfortunately. Would the alternative formula have been better for his gut/brain for 2 years?







We ate a very clean diet, on a continuum. Mamas less conscious of their diet may not have nursed as long because he was very reactive to my milk, until we eliminated a LOT of culprit foods. I'm ambivalent about having weaned at 2. And glad we weaned, now that I know about all of the mercury dumping, and the nutrient deficiencies I probably exacerbated in myself. But, I don't believe that his nutrients are nearly as deficient as mine, *because* he nursed. And no way do I believe that there are more nutrients in formula than breastmilk.

I'm worried it can be really tricky to balance things. My milk probably had less of at least a few nutrients than formula, I can think of a half dozen likely off the bat, but clearly it contained human-specific properties, known and unknown, that human babies are *meant* to consume. But it also, I'd bet, contained more heavy metals and weird chemicals that I couldn't detoxify, than formula. And how the heck do we figure the right balance? And in that sense, that's why I'm saying longer-term breastfeeding, which is becoming more common--what if it's risky for a sub-section of the population?







:

Also, it seems that my generation got a bigger load of mercury directly, *on top of not being breastfed*. (perhaps/probably less mercury for me for not being breastfed by my mercury-filled mom- first time I ever looked at it this way!). Direct mercury exposure is a more difficult position from which to recover, perhaps, than from a mama with mercury who nursed. At least we ain't adding mercury to ds's mouth!

Pat

Yeah, the trend toward less amalgam in kids' mouths is one positive. But to me, it looks like there are more, and more serious, behavior issues in kids nowadays, and so I worry that overall we're heading downhill.


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## dannic

:


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## Panserbjorne

Sorry for the non-illumination! This is a charged issue and it's not one I think ANYONE is speaking intelligently about. I mean people either get it and shrug, or don't have a clue. I mean, there are no long term studies at this point so it's hard to say past theories. And, again it's hard to speculate in a meaningful way. Are these babies I'm seeing who are nursing in a biologically normal way with mom's who are off the charts toxic better off as a result, or not? How can we know when it's such an individual experience? A different child will have a different experience.

I know of several (myself included, incidentally) that have children who WEREN'T breastfed as well as those who were when mama was quite toxic. IN all cases I can think of the ones who were FF are stronger constitutionally and far less reactive than the others. My son included in my observational pool. I fought like a crazed loon to nurse my others and they were and are far more fragile from several perspectives. Do I think breastfeeding harmed them? How can I say that? I think they got emotional, structural and physiological benefits that my son didn't. However, all that said ds1 is the strongest of the bunch.

Can I say for certain it's not simply because he was the first born? Nope. But there is another case I can think of were the first two were FF with no breastmilk and the third was fed pumped milk from mom and formula. Number three is far less robust and has very little food he can eat without extreme discomfort and horrible rashes. Honestly, the list goes on. I'm sure there are many examples that would nullify all the anecdotal data were I able to list it....but speaking from my own experience personally and with other mamas who have unique circumstances and are in a position to provide evidence that doesn't conform to the "usual" theories...I don't know. I have no answers. Just a big, honkin' question mark.

I've been thinking and digging and reading and calling and harassing many practitioners on this. No answers. That makes me uneasy. I still think breastfeeding is best. I just think that maybe, just maybe we need to be evaluating people and providing additional information in a cohesive way that would benefit any mama and baby potentially in this situation. I think perhaps some people are afraid to stack the decks against breastfeeding when there is finally a resurgence. I don't know. I think it will always be best, but maybe some people need to take extra measures to optimize THEIR situation.

Ideally, of course there'd be information available PRIOR to conception and a way women could be supported before they every thought about carrying a child. That would require peer reviewed literature that was widely accepted and toxicity that is sub clinical in the eyes of the medical world isn't likely to get that any time soon, ya know?

So, yeah. No answers. I don't even know that I'd call what I have a sneaking suspicion, really. I just get antsy when what I know, what I experience and what "out there" doesn't come together. I'm sad that there seem to be so many more cases of pan allergic kids, so many cases of difficulty nursing, so many cases of mom's that are testing so toxic and who have chronic conditions as a result. Something just isn't right.

TL-I also want to say, don't bet the farm on formula being less toxic. It's generally not coming from small farms where cows are fed grass as they hang out in the sun being loved. It's coming from industrial farms where sick cows on ton's of meds are fed crap that fattens them up and keeps costs low. I dont' believe for a second that they have less toxins than we do. The standards for formula are nowhere near they should be. I just think it's different, not necessarily better.


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## WuWei

PB, I'm thinking first-born gets more toxin dumps. Last-born gets least nutrients. Where the balance shifts







We are meant to procreate and nurse.









Pat


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## tanyalynn

PB, that's a sobering perspective. And if it turns out to be reality, well, sometimes reality bites. But it's better to know than not and someone needs to start asking the questions. Glad you're asking, even though it would be a painful process to go through, working with everyone affected.

And the fragility of some of our kids is disturbing. Both mine nursed about the same amount of time, but although I can't claim a lot of knowledge of homeopathy, I would say my son's constitution is decidedly weak. Interesting that he nursed more than DD, maybe it's a factor added on to my nutritional depletion. But it could be worse, I'm glad it's not, but I think he's going to have to work a lot harder than most to be healthy. He still seems sorta fragile.

It doesn't seem like we're going to have useful information that's available in the mainstream for 50 years, and in that timeframe, who knows what else will change?

Good point about the dairy cattle, I have no idea if any testing for any toxins, metals or otherwise, is routinely done. That's depressing. And from a practical perspective, even not-toxic cow's milk is problematic for a lot of kids, and soy too. I don't think dairy completely agrees with DD, and I've seen DS react in a variety of ways to dairy AND soy. But it's not like good information on homemade formula is really out there. The lack of choices is frustrating and confusing. It feels like we have enough information now that we could've made better choices 2 generations ago, but we didn't know it then, and 2 generations from now, they'll need to know more and still be behind the curve. Unless new factors step in and change things.


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## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
PB, I'm thinking first-born gets more toxin dumps. Last-born gets least nutrients. Where the balance shifts







We are meant to procreate and nurse.









Pat

That's the way I've been picturing things. I've been assuming DD got more toxins, DS got fewer nutrients, but DD physiologically resembles DH, and DS resembles me. So the toxins hide in DD much more than in DS and I think will be easier to get out, she's less delicate. This is an interesting new perspective on the situation, something to ponder.


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## Panserbjorne

yes, but from where? Toxin dumps by virtue of the fact that they are in you or from nursing? I agree we are meant to procreate and nurse, but Darwin would be shaking his head in amazement about where we are. Where is the shift? How do we account for it? Have we evolved to the point where we are making ourselves a weaker species? Survival of the fittest is kind of a joke at this point. And I'm not being flip-my dd wouldn't be here (none of mine would be actually) if that wasn't the case. But what are we doing, what's happening to our world and how has that altered what IS biologically normal?

It's hard to see. I have a unique situation in that my third got the most nutrients by far. He was/is also the most toxic judging by the tests. He also handles it much better than dd. I just don't know. I don't think FF is best. Far from it. I do wonder though what would happen (and not that you could do a study) to the babies reacting through breastmilk if you relieved the burden from mom. Of course as I said, best case scenario is that it's dealt with before then or the mom is taking measures to protect her breastmilk from dumping. THAT'S ideal. The whole thing is just dizzying though.


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## Panserbjorne

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Interesting that he nursed more than DD, maybe it's a factor added on to my nutritional depletion.

My dd nursed the longest without trying food. I was most depleted with her fro several reasons. I was very sick and undiagnosed. I was 6 months post partum when she was conceived. I ate a vegan diet.

Once she had healing food offered (grass fed meat, bone broth, eggs etc.) she ate like a champ. I've posted that before. She went from eating basically nothing and nursing round the clock at 15 months to inhaling lamb, chicken, bison, cheese, stock, eggs and the like. It was madness. Or was it? She dropped off on nursing to the exclusion of eating when THOSE were offered. Not when she had crackers, noodles, veggies, fruits etc. She played with them. She mouthed them. But she nursed non-stop. Then the others came along and it was like, "it's okay mom! I'm good." She ate more than I did on many occasions. She nursed til she was 4, but it was "normal" nursing. Not, "you are my only source of nutrition" nursing.

Interesting indeed.

As to your last point. Ds's are both modeled after me, physically and constitutionally (not talking homeopathy here-just basic strength.) Dd is all dh. He is a strong person, but weaker constitutionally. They both have narrow faces, hypertonia, altered cranial structures and they hold everything in their chests. In terms of homeopathy they have the same active miasms. She was the least well nourished, hands down. She had the most trauma at birth. The list goes on. Dh and dd are very fragile. They have a lot of destruction in their bodies. Dh has adrenal insufficiency. He also has celiac disease. So do I. She presented exactly like him though-wasting, atrophy and degeneration. Not everyone does. I didn't. It's just interesting.

Tanya, things WILL change. We just have to be watching cause it's going to be a more grassroots change, I'd wager!


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
yes, but from where? Toxin dumps by virtue of the fact that they are in you or from nursing?

Both in utero, but probably more from nursing, from my understanding.

I'm just awed at life. I trust we will evolve and adapt.







(day 4 after my remedy, lol)

Pat, glass way-full


----------



## Panserbjorne

agreed! I just love to examine and understand it. I also want everyone to have a chance to walk the path of allowing it! One big step is being happy as clearly that will cushion the blow and prevent far less dumping-so stay on that remedy! I think it's underestimated how much JOY can affect us physiologically. Really, that in and of itself could be the answer. As the environment is cleaned up our happiness could be more protective than anything else on the market.









We cannot analyze anything in a vacuum and we HAVE to take the mother's and father's emotional and mental state into account for many, many reasons.


----------



## Theloose

I've been reading along, and agreeing, and wondering how my own situaton fits (since we never seem to fit anything).

But this is the kind of discussion that gets me fired up and motivated and wanting to do everything that I can. You have no idea how much I wish we could all get together, in the same physical location, and just share knowledge and theories and observations and make a plan. I'll bring dh to watch the kids, he's great with them. We'll have an allergy friendly buffet for food, and we'd make so much progress in so little time. And I'm totally willing to travel and to organize, if we want to make it really happen. My adrenals are happy again







. But everyone's so busy and money doesn't grow on trees


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
agreed! I just love to examine and understand it. I also want everyone to have a chance to walk the path of allowing it! One big step is being happy as clearly that will cushion the blow and prevent far less dumping-so stay on that remedy! *I think it's underestimated how much JOY can affect us physiologically.* Really, that in and of itself could be the answer. As the environment is cleaned up our happiness could be more protective than anything else on the market.









We cannot analyze anything in a vacuum and we HAVE to take the mother's and father's emotional and mental state into account for many, many reasons.

I saw it happen, it was one of the stranger things I've seen in the past few years of my life, which have been the strangest to date. I looked around one day about 6 months after I got my amalgams out and realized I was happy. I just felt happy, I don't think I'd quite been depressed, but I admit I was grim. And then one day I was happy, and it's continued every since, with normal ups and downs. And within a few weeks, I started seeing things happen with the kids, changes I could see with their supps, specifically their vitamin C need. I wasn't quite sure at the time what was happening, figured it was more likely to be good than not, but it was my HCP who asked enough questions to put it together. I think the stress reduction that went with me being happier, and our household feeling lighter and more joyous, physically allowed their livers to start dumping toxins. It lasted all fall/winter for DD, probably 4-6 months, and then she levelled off.


----------



## Panserbjorne

oh that is AMAZING!!!! Congratulations, Mama!







:














:














:














:














:














:


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I saw it happen, it was one of the stranger things I've seen in the past few years of my life, which have been the strangest to date. *I looked around one day about 6 months after I got my amalgams out and realized I was happy. I just felt happy, I don't think I'd quite been depressed, but I admit I was grim. And then one day I was happy, and it's continued every since, with normal ups and downs.* And within a few weeks, I started seeing things happen with the kids, changes I could see with their supps, specifically their vitamin C need. I wasn't quite sure at the time what was happening, figured it was more likely to be good than not, but it was my HCP who asked enough questions to put it together. I think the stress reduction that went with me being happier, and our household feeling lighter and more joyous, physically allowed their livers to start dumping toxins. It lasted all fall/winter for DD, probably 4-6 months, and then she levelled off.

I cannot tell you how much this makes me want my amalgams out. Seriously. I can't remember the last time I was *really* happy. I'm far too serious to actually be happy ever. Not sure if that makes any sense, but I hope it does.

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that there's a higher toxic load from being in utero. Of course, that's my opinion. Based only on the fact that I read in The Autoimmune Epidemic (which I still haven't finished







) that mercury is concentrated something like 6x's in cord blood as what it is in mom's blood. Don't quote me on numbers either, I just remember it was considerable.








And it's nice to see you, PB.


----------



## Panserbjorne

ditto, friend


----------



## ajillfisch

So I understand that this is sort of off topic for this thread - I did post in Allergies long ago and (at the time) I never saw any replies. I find it extremely difficult to tease out exactly what is going on here. I really admire all of you who are so well educated!

My experience with the nursing - ds1, now 4 1/2, still nurses a LOT and is terribly reactive, to my milk and otherwise. He never ate much (despite being huge) but didn't nurse that often until ds2 was born. Then he began asking to nurse constantly - I assumed it was for comfort - but he also became much more reactive. I now think it might have been all the sugar I was eating that did him in. If he takes a particular enzyme the nursing requests are much less - I really think it's all physical.

On the other hand, ds2, after whose birth I "broke down", has very few issues. I ec'd him, he was dry at night early on, etc. Ds1 still bedwets.

BTW, I've posted in the past about nursing my reactive Ds1 and all responses were of the need to wean. Although I understand the thinking and perhaps my continuing to nurse him seems unjustifiable, it is hard for me to wean him when he seems so unready. I keep hoping instead I can heal myself.

Okay, I won't hijack any more...sorry for it, this has just been a nightmare for me. Thanks again for the suggestions.


----------



## Pookietooth

Oxalates can also cause interstial cystitis. And yeast is linked.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ajillfisch* 
So I understand that this is sort of off topic for this thread - I did post in Allergies long ago and (at the time) I never saw any replies. I find it extremely difficult to tease out exactly what is going on here. I really admire all of you who are so well educated!

My experience with the nursing - ds1, now 4 1/2, still nurses a LOT and is terribly reactive, to my milk and otherwise. He never ate much (despite being huge) but didn't nurse that often until ds2 was born. Then he began asking to nurse constantly - I assumed it was for comfort - but he also became much more reactive. I now think it might have been all the sugar I was eating that did him in. If he takes a particular enzyme the nursing requests are much less - I really think it's all physical.

On the other hand, ds2, after whose birth I "broke down", has very few issues. I ec'd him, he was dry at night early on, etc. Ds1 still bedwets.

BTW, I've posted in the past about nursing my reactive Ds1 and all responses were of the need to wean. Although I understand the thinking and perhaps my continuing to nurse him seems unjustifiable, it is hard for me to wean him when he seems so unready. I keep hoping instead I can heal myself.

Okay, I won't hijack any more...sorry for it, this has just been a nightmare for me. Thanks again for the suggestions.










I'm sorry you never received any replies in Allergies. If you repost perhaps you'll have better luck. I'm not certain exactly what your question(s) is/are, but please post... and please!! Post to the current Chat thread that you've posted your thread (with a link, preferably). I tend not to venture outside of it (and my other subbed threads) these days.


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I saw it happen, it was one of the stranger things I've seen in the past few years of my life, which have been the strangest to date. I looked around one day about 6 months after I got my amalgams out and realized I was happy. I just felt happy, I don't think I'd quite been depressed, but I admit I was grim. And then one day I was happy, and it's continued every since, with normal ups and downs. And within a few weeks, I started seeing things happen with the kids, changes I could see with their supps, specifically their vitamin C need. I wasn't quite sure at the time what was happening, figured it was more likely to be good than not, but it was my HCP who asked enough questions to put it together. I think the stress reduction that went with me being happier, and our household feeling lighter and more joyous, physically allowed their livers to start dumping toxins. It lasted all fall/winter for DD, probably 4-6 months, and then she levelled off.

this is awesome. I think I could use some joy. Gotta get the lead out, figuratively & really.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ajillfisch* 
So I understand that this is sort of off topic for this thread - I did post in Allergies long ago and (at the time) I never saw any replies. I find it extremely difficult to tease out exactly what is going on here. I really admire all of you who are so well educated!

My experience with the nursing - ds1, now 4 1/2, still nurses a LOT and is terribly reactive, to my milk and otherwise. He never ate much (despite being huge) but didn't nurse that often until ds2 was born. Then he began asking to nurse constantly - I assumed it was for comfort - but he also became much more reactive. I now think it might have been all the sugar I was eating that did him in. If he takes a particular enzyme the nursing requests are much less - I really think it's all physical.

On the other hand, ds2, after whose birth I "broke down", has very few issues. I ec'd him, he was dry at night early on, etc. Ds1 still bedwets.

BTW, I've posted in the past about nursing my reactive Ds1 and all responses were of the need to wean. Although I understand the thinking and perhaps my continuing to nurse him seems unjustifiable, it is hard for me to wean him when he seems so unready. I keep hoping instead I can heal myself.

Okay, I won't hijack any more...sorry for it, this has just been a nightmare for me. Thanks again for the suggestions.


I found this thread with no replies. It is closed now. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...913&highlight=

First things first, I'd eliminate dairy, gluten, soy and corn for 6 weeks for you and your sons. The key is to provide grain alternatives which are similar foods for ds1. Kathy's recipe box has a bunch of recipes for making foods free of these most common allergens. http://www.kathysrecipebox.com/

Then, I'd Food Journal everything you all eat and the ingredients. Gosh, that sounds horribly hard. But, we've all done it. So, it is possible. But, HARD!

And copy over your posts here to a new thread "About ajillfisch", link it here and in the chat thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1119033 We have about a dozen wise (read anal, lol) mamas who've btdt and can help you to brainstorm. The concern is that the parts of your story get lost, one page back and a significant detail gets missed in this long thread. We want to help!









Pat


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
this is awesome. I think I could use some joy. Gotta get the lead out, figuratively & really.











Start with the copper, go from there.


----------



## mom61508

How do you ladies figure out your toxic in lead, mercury, etc?


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
How do you ladies figure out your toxic in lead, mercury, etc?

I figured it out with the help of a really good HCP and did no testing on myself. My health history laid it out pretty clearly once I considered that the placement of my amalgams may be significant--but it took a while for that to really sink in. I did a hair test for DD as a proxy for all of us that showed what we expected, but it didn't show anything odd, which was the reason I did it, I wanted to rule out lead or anything I wasn't already looking for.

Read about hair testing (use Doctor's Data, their testing seems more comprehensive and I hear some other companies don't get repeatable results)...
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...435848&page=30
post 582 on that page

Other places to read are the frequent-dose chelation yahoo group and to some extent the autism-mercury yahoo group, though they're more child-focused.


----------



## neverdoingitagain

I'm almost afraid to post, because frankly...I'm probably making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I'm fairly certain I have adrenal fatigue. Suspected it for quite awhile. I just started reading a book called "Tired of being Tired" by Jesse-Lynn Haney and Nancy Deville. I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm not sure you all have discussed this book or even heard of it.
There is a quiz in it with different stages: Driven, dragging, losing it, hitting the wall and burned out. I scored in the hitting the wall stage. Or is it all in my head? I don't know anymore







Maybe its just emotions and feeling I need to work through, rather than an actual health issue.
I'm starting to have panic "waves" when I try to go to sleep. I will start to relax, be close to falling asleep when I will sudden feel a flash of anxiety. Its almost like a shock goes through my body and I'm wide awake. I went to bed at 10pm last night and didn't get to sleep until almost 2am. Its been happening all week that I've noticed, though I think its really been happening longer than that. It doesn't help that my dh tends to start intense uncomfortable conversations just before I fall asleep. Maybe its an associative reaction.
I am pretty sure I'm hypoglycemic, I definately have low blood pressure. I'm always tired, have little libido, half of the time I don't even want to leave the house. Exercise just exhausts me rather than rejuvenate me as it once did. I'm eating way too much sugar, crave sugar/chocolate and need to have coffee. I only have a couple cups a day, but I need it.
A couple years ago, I lost 10lbs using Sparkpeople.com.( Its a great program, I highly recommend it.) When I usually lose weight, I feel great. Lots of energy, want to have sex alot, usual stuff. That time, I felt nothing. I had little energy, no sex drive, just felt like I was floating along. I thought it was the diet, even though it was actually a pretty healthy diet.
Anyway, I thought I would join and see if I can get some tips on how to deal with. I've started eating an egg with salt on the morning







So far, so good. I may need to really dive deeper in a TF diet.
Thanks for starting this thread. It seems like one thing leads to something else. Who knows where this thread will take me next?


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Not much time atm, neverdoingitagain, but I just had to give you a







and let you know: It's not in your head. It's real and it SUCKS.
Hope this thread will give you some direction and support in your journey back to wellness.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I figured it out with the help of a really good HCP and did no testing on myself. My health history laid it out pretty clearly once I considered that the placement of my amalgams may be significant--but it took a while for that to really sink in. I did a hair test for DD as a proxy for all of us that showed what we expected, but it didn't show anything odd, which was the reason I did it, I wanted to rule out lead or anything I wasn't already looking for.

Read about hair testing (use Doctor's Data, their testing seems more comprehensive and I hear some other companies don't get repeatable results)...
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...435848&page=30
post 582 on that page

Other places to read are the frequent-dose chelation yahoo group and to some extent the autism-mercury yahoo group, though they're more child-focused.

OOOOOKKKK what's HCP?







thank you tanya for the resources


----------



## lil_miss_understood

HCP = health care provider
It's a simple way of stating "the person who provides your health care" without assuming a single way of doing things.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
HCP = health care provider
It's a simple way of stating "the person who provides your health care" without assuming a single way of doing things.










And some of us provide for our own health care.









Pat


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
HCP = health care provider
It's a simple way of stating "the person who provides your health care" without assuming a single way of doing things.









Yes, I meant a professional you can consult with about your healthcare. My main HCP right now is an acupuncturist who just happens to know tons and tons about mercury. But I have a couple other people I can visit if I need their specific knowledge. I now take a buffet approach to health care professionals.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neverdoingitagain* 
I'm almost afraid to post, because frankly...I'm probably making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I'm fairly certain I have adrenal fatigue. Suspected it for quite awhile. I just started reading a book called "Tired of being Tired" by Jesse-Lynn Haney and Nancy Deville. I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm not sure you all have discussed this book or even heard of it.
There is a quiz in it with different stages: Driven, dragging, losing it, hitting the wall and burned out. I scored in the hitting the wall stage. Or is it all in my head? I don't know anymore







Maybe its just emotions and feeling I need to work through, rather than an actual health issue.
I'm starting to have panic "waves" when I try to go to sleep. I will start to relax, be close to falling asleep when I will sudden feel a flash of anxiety. Its almost like a shock goes through my body and I'm wide awake. I went to bed at 10pm last night and didn't get to sleep until almost 2am. Its been happening all week that I've noticed, though I think its really been happening longer than that. It doesn't help that my dh tends to start intense uncomfortable conversations just before I fall asleep. Maybe its an associative reaction.
I am pretty sure I'm hypoglycemic, I definately have low blood pressure. I'm always tired, have little libido, half of the time I don't even want to leave the house. Exercise just exhausts me rather than rejuvenate me as it once did. I'm eating way too much sugar, crave sugar/chocolate and need to have coffee. I only have a couple cups a day, but I need it.
A couple years ago, I lost 10lbs using Sparkpeople.com.( Its a great program, I highly recommend it.) When I usually lose weight, I feel great. Lots of energy, want to have sex alot, usual stuff. That time, I felt nothing. I had little energy, no sex drive, just felt like I was floating along. I thought it was the diet, even though it was actually a pretty healthy diet.
Anyway, I thought I would join and see if I can get some tips on how to deal with. I've started eating an egg with salt on the morning







So far, so good. I may need to really dive deeper in a TF diet.
Thanks for starting this thread. It seems like one thing leads to something else. Who knows where this thread will take me next?

A lot of that sounds like me, and a lot of what I've read here.

Eventually, you will want to start problem-solving, when did this start, what were the contributing factor(s), are they all in the past or are some current? But yeah, in the meantime, the lifestyle stuff, and some supplements depending on how you feel, and how you feel about supps, can help make each day an easier go.







You're not nuts, you're one of us!


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
You're not nuts, you're one of us!









Now, that ought to make one feel MUCH better.









Pat


----------



## neverdoingitagain

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Now, that ought to make one feel MUCH better.









Pat

laughup


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neverdoingitagain* 
laughup

It worked!









Pat


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Yes, I meant a professional you can consult with about your healthcare. My main HCP right now is an acupuncturist who just happens to know tons and tons about mercury. But I have a couple other people I can visit if I need their specific knowledge. I now take a buffet approach to health care professionals.










Gotcha, I too take the buffet approach


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Gotcha, I too take the buffet approach









I'd like too. At the moment my buffet is pretty limited. Need to expand my diet. lol.


----------



## Metasequoia

I'm reading Bruce Rind's article in the latest Wise Traditions called Low Metabolic Therapies Addressing Thyroid and Adrenal Insufficiency.

Dr. Rind discusses the importance of treating the adrenals *BEFORE* trying to heal the thyroid since trying to fix the thyroid will result in further weakening the adrenals.

Quote:

Another way of looking at this thyroid-adrenal relationship is to think of the thyroid as "generating" the energy while the adrenals need to be able to "handle" the energy.

Quote:

A very common error made by medical practitioners is to focus entirely on the thyroid and ignore the adrenals. In a weakened adrenal state, prescribing thyroid medication that contains T4 and/or T3 may produce limited or transient improvement. Subsequent increases of the dose offer little or no benefit as the medication pushes the energy machinery into overdrive. Unfortunately, this higher energy level is unsustainable due to the stress on the adrenals. Eventually the adrenals become fatigued and the symptoms of low energy return.
Check out the scorecards. This is a great article!


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I'm reading Bruce Rind's article in the latest Wise Traditions called Low Metabolic Therapies Addressing Thyroid and Adrenal Insufficiency.

Dr. Rind discusses the importance of treating the adrenals *BEFORE* trying to heal the thyroid since trying to fix the thyroid will result in further weakening the adrenals.

Check out the scorecards. This is a great article!

Thanks for this


----------



## Dillpicklechip

Has anyone who is currently following this thread ever taken maca root? I've read a lot about how it can boost your energy and libido (both of which I need major help with), by balancing hormone levels. Does it really work, and is it okay for those of us with adrenal fatigue to take?

I did buy some, and I've taken a few doses, and I've actually felt pretty good the past few days (not sure if it's from the maca or not). But I just have a nagging doubt that if the maca is giving me an energy boost, it might be taxing on my adrenals...does anyone know anything about this?

(Sorry if this is a stupid question...)


----------



## Dillpicklechip

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I'm reading Bruce Rind's article in the latest Wise Traditions called Low Metabolic Therapies Addressing Thyroid and Adrenal Insufficiency.

Thanks so much--this is a very helpful article. I was not aware about the connection between AF and estrogen dominance.


----------



## Metasequoia

Man, this latest Wise Traditions has some GREAT articles!

We discussed iodine at some point, this is interesting:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=225


----------



## Metasequoia

I should have flipped through the entire issue before posting - the next article, written by SF is:

The Great Iodine Debate - FIFTEEN pages about iodine!


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dillpicklechip* 
Has anyone who is currently following this thread ever taken maca root? I've read a lot about how it can boost your energy and libido (both of which I need major help with), by balancing hormone levels. Does it really work, and is it okay for those of us with adrenal fatigue to take?

I did buy some, and I've taken a few doses, and I've actually felt pretty good the past few days (not sure if it's from the maca or not). But I just have a nagging doubt that if the maca is giving me an energy boost, it might be taxing on my adrenals...does anyone know anything about this?

(Sorry if this is a stupid question...)

I feel ya, I really need help with libido.
I'm wondering the same thing on maca







I have avoided it tho because I'm BF


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
I feel ya, I really need help with libido.
I'm wondering the same thing on maca







I have avoided it tho because I'm BF

Don't we all?


----------



## bluets

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dillpicklechip* 
Has anyone who is currently following this thread ever taken maca root? I've read a lot about how it can boost your energy and libido (both of which I need major help with), by balancing hormone levels. Does it really work, and is it okay for those of us with adrenal fatigue to take?

I did buy some, and I've taken a few doses, and I've actually felt pretty good the past few days (not sure if it's from the maca or not). But I just have a nagging doubt that if the maca is giving me an energy boost, it might be taxing on my adrenals...does anyone know anything about this?

(Sorry if this is a stupid question...)

http://www.macaroot.com/science/curative.html

it helps to balance adrenal function by acting through the hypothalamus and pituitary.

i would interpret this as somewhat helpful but i doubt you would see improvement *just* using maca. you'd probably also need to add in licorice root and other adaptogens. Enzymatic Therapy has a product "Herbal Adrenergize" that might be of use - though i didn't notice an effect from it. on the other hand, my husband uses their "Adrenergize" product with some good results (I found the latter made me jittery).


----------



## Panserbjorne

I hate to be a skeptic, but I haven't seen enough info to determine whether or not maca is appropriate. I would like to believe it's the case and I have spent a long time looking into it. I love maca, but I've never given it to dh. I don't know....it's on my "want to believe, but don't have enough evidence yet" list.


----------



## mom61508

I agree at least from what I've been reading lately.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Panserbjørne* 
I hate to be a skeptic, but I haven't seen enough info to determine whether or not maca is appropriate. I would like to believe it's the case and I have spent a long time looking into it. I love maca, but I've never given it to dh. I don't know....it's on my "want to believe, but don't have enough evidence yet" list.


----------



## Lady Lilya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Don't we all?









Not me. My libido has always been fine.


----------



## tanyalynn

Leigh, have you done a saliva adrenal test yet? You've got such an unusual set of symptoms, it's really confusing.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

I just went in today for a blood draw - I'm very curious what the results will be. I am having my vit D (OH 25 whatever test) level, iron & ferritin levels, full thyroid panel, and a full "female" hormone panel done. Even if the thyroid comes back as needing work, I want to focus still on my adrenals and estrogen/progesterone issues (I'm pretty sure those will come back low though still with estrogen dominance). The last time I tried to naturally work on my thyroid (back in late May/early June), I think I really crashed my adrenals and paid the price mostly through increased anxiety. Thank goodness for inositol!


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I just went in today for a blood draw - I'm very curious what the results will be. I am having my vit D (OH 25 whatever test) level, iron & ferritin levels, full thyroid panel, and a full "female" hormone panel done. Even if the thyroid comes back as needing work, I want to focus still on my adrenals and estrogen/progesterone issues (I'm pretty sure those will come back low though still with estrogen dominance). The last time I tried to naturally work on my thyroid (back in late May/early June), I think I really crashed my adrenals and paid the price mostly through increased anxiety. Thank goodness for inositol!









I haven't seen you around much lately. Miss you.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Leigh, have you done a saliva adrenal test yet? You've got such an unusual set of symptoms, it's really confusing.









:


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lady Lilya* 
Not me. My libido has always been fine.

Mine made a *huge* comeback after treating my adrenals...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I just went in today for a blood draw - I'm very curious what the results will be. I am having my vit D (OH 25 whatever test) level, iron & ferritin levels, full thyroid panel, and a full "female" hormone panel done. Even if the thyroid comes back as needing work, I want to focus still on my adrenals and estrogen/progesterone issues (I'm pretty sure those will come back low though still with estrogen dominance). The last time I tried to naturally work on my thyroid (back in late May/early June), I think I really crashed my adrenals and paid the price mostly through increased anxiety. Thank goodness for inositol!

Have you read the latest Wise Traditions? *Awesome* issue for those of us with adrenal stuff going on & thyroid too. There are a couple of articles focusing on thyroid stuff - even a page or two specifically about needing to treat the adrenals & take care of estrogen dominance before being able to heal the thyroid.


----------



## Lady Lilya

I haven't done any testing yet. Been busy around here with usual summer stuff (endless parade of relatives that come to see my 92yo grandmother while they still can). Then DS's 2nd birthday party. Now we are going on vacation for a week. When I come back I am going to make an appointment with the GYN and see what testing I can get her to do for me as pre-conception testing.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 







I haven't seen you around much lately. Miss you.









Aww, thanks JR. I find I can only focus on one topic at a time and so health and allergies got put on the back burner. (I'm working on expanding my ability to concentrate!







) It's nice to be missed.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Mine made a *huge* comeback after treating my adrenals...

Have you read the latest Wise Traditions? *Awesome* issue for those of us with adrenal stuff going on & thyroid too. There are a couple of articles focusing on thyroid stuff - even a page or two specifically about needing to treat the adrenals & take care of estrogen dominance before being able to heal the thyroid.

Your link is what finally convinced me of the importance of having my hormone levels checked when I went to the ob/gyn. I knew from experience that treating the thyroids probably wasn't the best idea (at least in my experience - oh I don't want to repeat that), but I didn't realize how related estrogen dominance and adrenal fatigue were related. The woman who did the draw said my doctor would probably have results Monday or Tuesday (I'm a bit suspicious of the vitamin D screening as I'm not sure what protocol the lab uses - but at least the testing is all done at the local hospital, which is a pretty big one, so hopefully it'll all be good).


----------



## maff23uk

Hi all,

I'm new here but basically I run The Environmental Illness Resource website and have some serious adrenal issues secondary to chronic fatigue syndrome which I was diagnosed with aged 12 (I'm now 30).

My most recent ASI was carried out a year ago and the fluctuations through the day perfectly matched the variations in my symptoms of fatigue, sleepiness/drowsiness, lack of focus and concentration etc. You can see my results and blog about my symptoms here - My Adrenal Stress Index (ASI) Test Results

Basically my cortisol is low in the morning and too high at night with a drop in the mid-afternoon. So, I can't get out of bed in the morning, perk up a bit and then have a drowsy period in the afternoon...before starting to feel wired at night just when I need to sleep. I can get off to sleep but it is by no means good quality sleep.

Does anybody have any pointers? I have tried licorice to get cortisol up in the morning - overstimulating. I have tried phosphatidylcholine in the evening to decrease cortisol - helps a little but nothing major.

I've read pretty much all there is to read online and nothing that really addresses a pattern of results like mine. I don't fit into any of the typical four stages of adrenal fatigue. I wrote an article years ago about adrenal fatigue for my website which seems to have helped many and been referenced in magazines etc but I can't see to help myself!

Thanks for any ideas I might have overlooked!

Maff


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maff23uk* 
Hi all,

I'm new here but basically I run The Environmental Illness Resource website and have some serious adrenal issues secondary to chronic fatigue syndrome which I was diagnosed with aged 12 (I'm now 30).

My most recent ASI was carried out a year ago and the fluctuations through the day perfectly matched the variations in my symptoms of fatigue, sleepiness/drowsiness, lack of focus and concentration etc. You can see my results and blog about my symptoms here - My Adrenal Stress Index (ASI) Test Results

Basically my cortisol is low in the morning and too high at night with a drop in the mid-afternoon. So, I can't get out of bed in the morning, perk up a bit and then have a drowsy period in the afternoon...before starting to feel wired at night just when I need to sleep. I can get off to sleep but it is by no means good quality sleep.

Does anybody have any pointers? I have tried licorice to get cortisol up in the morning - overstimulating. I have tried phosphatidylcholine in the evening to decrease cortisol - helps a little but nothing major.

I've read pretty much all there is to read online and nothing that really addresses a pattern of results like mine. I don't fit into any of the typical four stages of adrenal fatigue. I wrote an article years ago about adrenal fatigue for my website which seems to have helped many and been referenced in magazines etc but I can't see to help myself!

Thanks for any ideas I might have overlooked!

Maff

From the pattern you've described, it sort of sounds like an abnormal circadian rhythm... I read *years* ago what to do about that, but I can't remember for the life of me what anymore.


----------



## Metasequoia

Do you sleep in complete darkness? Like black out shades? I don't have black out shades, but I hang a quilt up over the curtain & stuff another blanket on top of that so no light comes in at night.

Exercise really helped me with energy & I sleep like a rock after a day when I've exercised.

Do you drink any caffeine? Even 2 oz of coffee messes me up big time, for the whole day.


----------



## linguistmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I'm reading Bruce Rind's article in the latest Wise Traditions called Low Metabolic Therapies Addressing Thyroid and Adrenal Insufficiency.

Dr. Rind discusses the importance of treating the adrenals *BEFORE* trying to heal the thyroid since trying to fix the thyroid will result in further weakening the adrenals.

Check out the scorecards. This is a great article!

I'm back here after some life stuff got in the way







Loved this article! I see that he mentioned aminos sipped throughout the day, what's a good brand for those or what do others here think about taking them at all? I've seen Bragg's liquid aminos at the HFS, but don't know too much about them. The article didn't give a dosage suggestion either and I'm curious about that.


----------



## Vaquitita

after reading Dr. Rind's article, I have been tracking my temperature on his chart. I have the wide variability he says goes along with low adrenals. which i guess i already knew. i keep coming back to this thread cause i know this is whats wrong with me, but i just can't quite figure out what to do about it. i feel like it has improved since 2 years ago (which was my lowest point), but obviously a good diet and less stress are not enough. or are going to take a long time to fix my adrenals.

do i really need the saliva test? i now know from the temp tracking that it is my adrenals. and even $100 would be very hard to find right now. especially since we're still paying off the $400 it cost to get my thyroid checked... After reading Dr. Rinds article, I do see things I could improve.
* Sleep, going to bed by 9-10. When I do this, I do feel much better. But find it hard to be consistent with.
* Caffeine. I have recently cut out my occasional coffee's, since I saw a clear pattern of feeling lousy the next day. I still drink ice tea though when I'm eating out. Need to cut that out. I don't think I can give up chocolate, I need something rich and delicious! But I will try to savor it more, stick to just one square of the good stuff.
* Alcohol. I usually avoid due to the empty calories. But will completely avoid.
* Sea salt, trying to drink this in the mornings.

As far as b complex goes, I'm taking liver 'pills' so I should have that covered. I'm also curious for the answer to linguistmama's question about the aminos. I need to post this list on my fridge to keep me focused. Ha! Is that possible for an adrenal fatigue sufferer?


----------



## tanyalynn

Vaquitita, I haven't actually tested myself, my symptoms are clear enough that I can make an educated guess about which stage I'm in. Do you know _why_ your adrenals are all worn down? That's been a biggie for me feeling better. Dealing with the underlying problem while doing adrenal support stuff (lifestyle and some supps) has helped me make progress (except lately cause I've been staying up too late--bad me).


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maff23uk* 
Hi all,

I'm new here but basically I run The Environmental Illness Resource website and have some serious adrenal issues secondary to chronic fatigue syndrome which I was diagnosed with aged 12 (I'm now 30).

Do you know the cause of your chronic fatigue? That seems really important to address in order to allow your adrenals to heal. Have you ruled anything in or out?

My most recent ASI was carried out a year ago and the fluctuations through the day perfectly matched the variations in my symptoms of fatigue, sleepiness/drowsiness, lack of focus and concentration etc. You can see my results and blog about my symptoms here - My Adrenal Stress Index (ASI) Test Results

Basically my cortisol is low in the morning and too high at night with a drop in the mid-afternoon. So, I can't get out of bed in the morning, perk up a bit and then have a drowsy period in the afternoon...before starting to feel wired at night just when I need to sleep. I can get off to sleep but it is by no means good quality sleep.

Does anybody have any pointers? I have tried licorice to get cortisol up in the morning - overstimulating. I have tried phosphatidylcholine in the evening to decrease cortisol - helps a little but nothing major.

I've read pretty much all there is to read online and nothing that really addresses a pattern of results like mine. I don't fit into any of the typical four stages of adrenal fatigue. I wrote an article years ago about adrenal fatigue for my website which seems to have helped many and been referenced in magazines etc but I can't see to help myself!

Thanks for any ideas I might have overlooked!

Maff

The best solution I have for sleep is going to bed early and taking melatonin. Lately when I try to get to sleep late, I just can't (could for a while as long as I took the melatonin). I started at 3mg, but during a period of high oxidative stress I increased to 5mg and then 8mg for about 6 months before dropping back to 5mg where I am now.

ETA: Maff, I was reading a bit on your website. The autism page that discusses other sources of heavy metals? One of the biggest sources of mercury is amalgam fillings, and moms pass on mercury to their babies. BTDT. Not all people accumulate mercury in the same way, so some kids start out with very little, while others start out with disturbingly high levels. Have you ever had amalgams?


----------



## tanyalynn

Maff, what I wrote may be totally obvious to you, I just couldn't get the search to work. Probably user error.







And since my amalgams have had such a profound effect in my life, I like to mention it in case it hasn't occurred to someone else to rule in/out.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
I see that he mentioned aminos sipped throughout the day, what's a good brand for those or what do others here think about taking them at all? I've seen Bragg's liquid aminos at the HFS, but don't know too much about them.

Bragg's amino acids is high in glutamates, basically "MSG".
http://www.essentialoilcookbook.com/...ing-braggs.htm
http://www.msgtruth.org/avoid.htm
http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2...liquid_am.html

Pat


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
The best solution I have for sleep is going to bed early and taking melatonin. Lately when I try to get to sleep late, I just can't (could for a while as long as I took the melatonin). I started at 3mg, but during a period of high oxidative stress I increased to 5mg and then 8mg for about 6 months before dropping back to 5mg where I am now.


I'm no melatonin expert, by any means. However, I've read that less is more when supplementing. Consider starting with just 0.25 mg, rather than a 1mg dose.

Pat


----------



## linguistmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Bragg's amino acids is high in glutamates, basically "MSG".
http://www.essentialoilcookbook.com/...ing-braggs.htm
http://www.msgtruth.org/avoid.htm
http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2...liquid_am.html

Pat

Good to know! I looked on the wh foods site, but didn't see a list of what foods are high in aminos. Any tips or links with good information?


----------



## linguistmama

I've seen on this thread that b vitamins are important for supporting the adrenals. And liver is a good source of them. But liver is often high in copper and copper is often an issue with thyroid issues which are often related to adrenal issues. So does Pat or anyone have opinions on this? I'd be pretty willing to start eating liver from our local wap store, except that I have thyroid issues and am concerned about the high copper.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
I've seen on this thread that b vitamins are important for supporting the adrenals. And liver is a good source of them. But liver is often high in copper and *copper is often an issue with thyroid issues* which are often related to adrenal issues. So does Pat or anyone have opinions on this? I'd be pretty willing to start eating liver from our local wap store, except that I have thyroid issues and am concerned about the high copper.









Thanks for being the bearer of my one thing to learn today, especially since it's something I really need to know.


----------



## WuWei

Daggone, that is a LOT of copper!! 450% of the RDA in one serving of liver.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...spice&dbid=129

Thyroid and copper (toward the bottom of the page): http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/thyroid.htm

Apparently, it is *copper deficiency which is suspect as an association with thyroid issue*s. http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

Copper is also important for the production of the thyroid hormone called thyroxine. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...trient&dbid=53

Also, weak adrenals cause copper to become biounavailable. And antacids cause less copper to be absorbed.

"*Zinc accelerates thyroidal function and copper slows it down. When copper gets deficient, the thyroid produces excessive hormone and hyperthyroidism results. The balance of zinc and copper is important in maintaining normal thyroid function and the proper ratio seems to be about 5:1 for females and 10:1 or higher for males."

http://www.ithyroid.com/thyroid_theory.htm

*Fascinating.

Pat*
*


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
Good to know! I looked on the wh foods site, but didn't see a list of what foods are high in aminos. Any tips or links with good information?

All foods have amino acids.

*Everything about amino acids and food sources:* http://www.innvista.com/health/nutri...no/default.htm

*Top 200 food sources of many vitamins, amino acids, minerals, antioxidants, etc.:* http://top200foodsources.com/Nutrients/Glycine/516/g

Pat


----------



## linguistmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Daggone, that is a LOT of copper!! 450% of the RDA in one serving of liver.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...spice&dbid=129

Thyroid and copper (toward the bottom of the page): http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/thyroid.htm

Apparently, it is *copper deficiency which is suspect as an association with thyroid issue*s. http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

Copper is also important for the production of the thyroid hormone called thyroxine. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...trient&dbid=53

Also, weak adrenals cause copper to become biounavailable. And antacids cause less copper to be absorbed.

"*Zinc accelerates thyroidal function and copper slows it down. When copper gets deficient, the thyroid produces excessive hormone and hyperthyroidism results. The balance of zinc and copper is important in maintaining normal thyroid function and the proper ratio seems to be about 5:1 for females and 10:1 or higher for males."

http://www.ithyroid.com/thyroid_theory.htm

*Fascinating.

Pat*
*

You're so awesome! From the wh foods site it looks like calf's liver has roughly a 1:1 zinc to copper ratio so if I follow the ithyroid recs I would want to make sure I got more zinc elsewhere. I wonder if getting the right ratio would prevent harmful effects from copper? I'm hypothyroid by the way.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Thanks for all of that, Pat. Now I'm wondering if I should be supping with zinc or copper.








I seem to remember reading somewhere that with holistic medicine sometimes the correct course of action is the one which causes the patient to feel worse in the short term... I wonder if that's not the case with Hashi's? Copper slows down thyroid function, your body is attacking your thyroid.. You want to suppress the function of your thyroid so that your body will stop attacking it, right? (Obviously with the supervision of a health professional and while supplementing thyroid hormone- Armour- to prevent myxedema.) Copper deficiency also being shown to be implicated in autoimmune disorders... Hmm. Definitely something to think about.


----------



## GoddessKristie

I see a lot of amino suppliments in GNC. Here's a liquid that looked as though it had a lot in it. It's not derived from soy like Bragg is. I feel like a suppliment noob, so I don't know what to make of it.
http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp...108321.2108302


----------



## tanyalynn

JR, I'd be really cautious with copper supplementation. You are much more likely to be low in zinc, maybe really, really low. Zinc -> glutathione, heavy metal detoxification, nice HCl levels. A lot of the discussion at ithyroid about copper centers around hyperthyroidism.

Copper is a vital nutrient, but actively supplementing it isn't often necessary, and with the health issues you've got, and your son's got, it could be a real problem.


----------



## Mom2Two&1Angel

Hi Everyone,

I am new here, first time posting. I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue about 5 years ago, after the birth of my 2nd baby. Although I'm certain I've had it probably most of my adult life.

In April, 2008, I experienced a miscarriage at the beginning of my 11th week. I had just turned 40 at the time. I would really love to have one more baby. I am concerened now a bit about my age but mostly about my adrenal fatigue and how that would be impacted by pregnancy and a newborn to care for. By the way, I have a 7 and 5 year old.

I am eager to learn more here and any insight from anyone who has gone through a successful pregnancy and how it affected your adrenal fatigue would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!


----------



## Vaquitita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Vaquitita, I haven't actually tested myself, my symptoms are clear enough that I can make an educated guess about which stage I'm in. Do you know _why_ your adrenals are all worn down? That's been a biggie for me feeling better. Dealing with the underlying problem while doing adrenal support stuff (lifestyle and some supps) has helped me make progress (except lately cause I've been staying up too late--bad me).

i think the why probably is: i let myself become so emersed in my first baby, my relationship with dh suffered, and i spent zero time replenishing myself. then i got pregnant again, my relationship with dh still wasn't great, and taking care of a newborn and a 2yo i had to start sharing the work with dh, which i didn't want to but couldn't give both of them 100% 24 hours a day. i realized (like dh had been telling me all along) that i needed some me time, and start getting some. dh and i have worked on our relationship and have become a team again. so my stress level is much much better now. dh used to tell me i was stressed out all the time.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
JR, I'd be really cautious with copper supplementation. You are much more likely to be low in zinc, maybe really, really low. Zinc -> glutathione, heavy metal detoxification, nice HCl levels. A lot of the discussion at ithyroid about copper centers around hyperthyroidism.

Copper is a vital nutrient, but actively supplementing it isn't often necessary, and with the health issues you've got, and your son's got, it could be a real problem.

Thanks for your input, Tanya. I hope you know by now that I'm incredibly cautious with everything and tend to default to my ND on most.








I will be very cautious and won't be adding anything iffy without consulting my ND.


----------



## dhammamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
I'm no melatonin expert, by any means. However, I've read that less is more when supplementing. Consider starting with just 0.25 mg, rather than a 1mg dose.

Pat

Trader Joe's sells a 300 *mcg* peppermint chewable that is a great dose for me. No more intense dreams or foggy head in the morning. Even splitting a 3 mg into quarters was too much for me.


----------



## Vaquitita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2Two&1Angel* 
I am concerened now a bit about my age but mostly about my adrenal fatigue and how that would be impacted by pregnancy and a newborn to care for. By the way, I have a 7 and 5 year old.

I am eager to learn more here and any insight from anyone who has gone through a successful pregnancy and how it affected your adrenal fatigue would be greatly appreciated!

i came on here to post this same question. i'm really wanting another baby, and am feeling good lately, but i wonder what effect another pregnancy/baby would have on me.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vaquitita* 
i came on here to post this same question. i'm really wanting another baby, and am feeling good lately, but i wonder what effect another pregnancy/baby would have on me.

Personally, I was more concerned about what effect my adrenal fatigue would have on the baby than vice versa since the baby's adrenals take much of the load off of mom's in the last trimester, often resulting in an infant born with adrenal fatigue...


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Personally, I was more concerned about what effect my adrenal fatigue would have on the baby than vice versa since the baby's adrenals take much of the load off of mom's in the last trimester, often resulting in an infant born with adrenal fatigue...

I figure I've had adrenal fatigue since high school or maybe even before that.
So I'm sure I had it while pregnant so having said that how do you know If your LOs adrenal have suffered because of that?
I was unaware of adrenal fatigue until 4 months PP so I didn't support them while I was pregnant either


----------



## Metasequoia

I've mentioned before on this thread that Dd1 clearly has adrenal insufficiency. I noticed it 2-3 years ago (when I learned about AF) but in retrospect, she's been showing symptoms for much longer.

She's anxious a lot of the time, ending up with headaches from anxiety (even good anxiety, like holidays or parties.) She rotates nervous habits like nail biting, throat clearing, finger twiddling & she now does this eye thing where she makes her eyes really big. Just a bunch of nervous ticks. Oh, and there's the peeing thing where she'll say she has to urinate repeatedly even though only a dribble comes out. It's not physical, no UTI. If we're getting ready to leave the house or go to bed, she'll pee & then pee a few minutes later, but once we've left the house or once she's gone to sleep, everything's fine.

My ND's daughter also has adrenal fatigue - he even did an ASI to confirm it.

Fortunately, we are aware of this "illness" & have the knowledge to treat it naturally.

My kids have been raised on a TF diet, getting CLO, D, etc so at least there's that. What I'd like to work on, especially with Dd1 since she seems to be the anxious one, is how to handle stress - relaxation techniques.
I tell her repeatedly that she needs to relax, but I know from personal experience that you can't just expect someone to suddenly relax just because you tell them to.

I also try to get as much bone broth & raw liver into them as possible, but the latter is easier said than done. I might resort to chopping up raw liver extra fine & hiding it in a spoonful of applesauce each day. The only trouble with that is that Ds still needs to chew everything in his mouth. My Dds know how to swallow a spoonful of applesauce without chewing it. The other option is liver pills, but I prefer the fresh liver. I'm considering a B-complex for them too, at least Dd1 for now.

I'm a bit confused as to why Dd1 seems to have the weakest adrenals if she was my first. I would think that by my second & third pregnancies, my adrenals would have been much further depleted. ??


----------



## Metasequoia

Now that I typed that out...I wonder if it's because Dd1 got all of my toxins? She so often ends up with yeast infections, I wonder if she has some toxicity issues which are affecting her adrenals.

I've never done any proactive detoxing - how can I gently detox Dd1? Cilantro? Kombucha? Vitamin C?


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I've mentioned before on this thread that Dd1 clearly has adrenal insufficiency. I noticed it 2-3 years ago (when I learned about AF) but in retrospect, she's been showing symptoms for much longer.

She's anxious a lot of the time, ending up with headaches from anxiety (even good anxiety, like holidays or parties.) She rotates nervous habits like nail biting, throat clearing, finger twiddling & she now does this eye thing where she makes her eyes really big. Just a bunch of nervous ticks. Oh, and there's the peeing thing where she'll say she has to urinate repeatedly even though only a dribble comes out. It's not physical, no UTI. If we're getting ready to leave the house or go to bed, she'll pee & then pee a few minutes later, but once we've left the house or once she's gone to sleep, everything's fine.

My ND's daughter also has adrenal fatigue - he even did an ASI to confirm it.

Fortunately, we are aware of this "illness" & have the knowledge to treat it naturally.

My kids have been raised on a TF diet, getting CLO, D, etc so at least there's that. What I'd like to work on, especially with Dd1 since she seems to be the anxious one, is how to handle stress - relaxation techniques.
I tell her repeatedly that she needs to relax, but I know from personal experience that you can't just expect someone to suddenly relax just because you tell them to.

I also try to get as much bone broth & raw liver into them as possible, but the latter is easier said than done. I might resort to chopping up raw liver extra fine & hiding it in a spoonful of applesauce each day. The only trouble with that is that Ds still needs to chew everything in his mouth. My Dds know how to swallow a spoonful of applesauce without chewing it. The other option is liver pills, but I prefer the fresh liver. I'm considering a B-complex for them too, at least Dd1 for now.

I'm a bit confused as to why Dd1 seems to have the weakest adrenals if she was my first. I would think that by my second & third pregnancies, my adrenals would have been much further depleted. ??

Is there physical signs of AF that you can see in your DD?
I was wondering the same thing as to why your Dd1 has adrenal issues and the others don't?? Very interesting maybe you releases toxins into her??? Did you support your adrenals more with the other pregnancies?

Your adrenals are healed now?
Ooops just read your last post guess you already thought of the toxins being a culprit


----------



## Metasequoia

The only physical symptoms that I can see would be yeast & I suppose the nervous habits (nail biting, etc) could be viewed as physical since IMO, those things can stem from a physical problem, like a deficiency. I had a yeast infection when I was pregnant with her (haven't had one since) & we struggled with thrush while breastfeeding & she often had yeasty diaper rashes as an infant & toddler. So perhaps her issue with yeast stems directly from exposure & not from weakened adrenals or heavy metal toxicty?

My diet was definitely better with Dd2 & even better with Ds - very TF with him. My second two also nursed for a long time (Dd2 was 3.5 & Ds is still going strong at 3.5.) Dd1 didn't nurse very long at all, only a couple of months.








So that could have a lot to do with it, but doesn't explain the yeast.

Oddly, Dd1 is the only one who doesn't appear to have food allergies. Dd2 has a problem with dairy & some grains & Ds reacts to gluten.

No, my adrenals are far from healed. It's definitely a one step forward, two steps back process. Every time I feel like I've made progress, something sets me back substantially. Right now, it's this cold & sore throat I've been battling which has left me feeling REALLY dizzy upon standing - a sure sign that my adrenals have taken a hit. Life stresses like my Dad's heart failure hit me hard too & took months to recover from. BUT, I have never been as bad as I was when I was first diagnosed almost 3 years ago.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
The only physical symptoms that I can see would be yeast & I suppose the nervous habits (nail biting, etc) could be viewed as physical since IMO, those things can stem from a physical problem, like a deficiency. I had a yeast infection when I was pregnant with her (haven't had one since) & we struggled with thrush while breastfeeding & she often had yeasty diaper rashes as an infant & toddler. So perhaps her issue with yeast stems directly from exposure & not from weakened adrenals or heavy metal toxicty?

My diet was definitely better with Dd2 & even better with Ds - very TF with him. My second two also nursed for a long time (Dd2 was 3.5 & Ds is still going strong at 3.5.) Dd1 didn't nurse very long at all, only a couple of months.








So that could have a lot to do with it, but doesn't explain the yeast.

Oddly, Dd1 is the only one who doesn't appear to have food allergies. Dd2 has a problem with dairy & some grains & Ds reacts to gluten.

No, my adrenals are far from healed. It's definitely a one step forward, two steps back process. Every time I feel like I've made progress, something sets me back substantially. Right now, it's this cold & sore throat I've been battling which has left me feeling REALLY dizzy upon standing - a sure sign that my adrenals have taken a hit. Life stresses like my Dad's heart failure hit me hard too & took months to recover from. BUT, I have never been as bad as I was when I was first diagnosed almost 3 years ago.

Oh it's such a battle, that's for sure!!! Your children are lucky to have you! So may of my friends have children that are suffering and they think it's jsut the way it is and continue eating they're pop tarts and cheetos







:

I'm sorry to hear about your dad








for me trying to figure out what is wrong with DD and her night waking is wants keeping my adrenals from getting better.I just want to FIX her!!! Well and I keep drinking coffee too


----------



## lil_miss_understood

I totally hear you on stress keeping you from seeing progress with your adrenals, Meta. In the last 3 years, I had a miscarriage, found out my foster-sister died, had my granny die, then my dad, then my best (local) friend committed suicide, dealing with immigration, my uncle died, another friend committed suicide while his wife was pregnant with twins, my foster-mom died, got diagnosed with Hashimoto's, got pregnant with and had ds2, found out about DS1's food allergies so major diet overhaul, moved 3 times then had an unexpected and very difficult pregnancy (and now a 3 mo)... I'm sure I'm missing something. Because, you know... that's not enough there.








Also, have you considered zinc for your DD's nail biting? In what I've been learning over in Allergies, zinc is often mentioned for nail biting... And if you suspect heavy metals to begin with, then it's double the reason to consider supping her with zinc.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Now that I typed that out...I wonder if it's because Dd1 got all of my toxins? She so often ends up with yeast infections, I wonder if she has some toxicity issues which are affecting her adrenals.

I've never done any proactive detoxing - how can I gently detox Dd1? Cilantro? Kombucha? Vitamin C?

Cilantro and kombucha both mobilize more than they can excrete on their own. I'd add nutrients first and then think about that type of stuff. Do you have funds for one hair test? About $85-ish from Doctor's Data, helps both with seeing some minerals as high or low (cal, mag, iodine, selenium, lots of good stuff) plus whether any heavy metals are high enough to be problematic. Vitamin C is good for adrenals anyway, separate from toxins, so that's a win.

Look into folate, and a) how much y'all's diet has on an ongoing basis, and b) whether you've got family health indicators that you may need more folate than most folks. Magnesium's almost always a winner, even though you surely eat more than most people, long-term deficiencies can take quite a while to catch up with, and if you have detoxification issues (low-level or otherwise) you may need more mag while you're doing that. Some folks use supps, some do epsom salts baths, some do both.

http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/mthfr.php
and the intro page here....
http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I totally hear you on stress keeping you from seeing progress with your adrenals, Meta. In the last 3 years, I had a miscarriage, found out my foster-sister died, had my granny die, then my dad, then my best (local) friend committed suicide, dealing with immigration, my uncle died, another friend committed suicide while his wife was pregnant with twins, my foster-mom died, got diagnosed with Hashimoto's, got pregnant with and had ds2, found out about DS1's food allergies so major diet overhaul, moved 3 times then had an unexpected and very difficult pregnancy (and now a 3 mo)... I'm sure I'm missing something. Because, you know... that's not enough there.








Also, have you considered zinc for your DD's nail biting? In what I've been learning over in Allergies, zinc is often mentioned for nail biting... And if you suspect heavy metals to begin with, then it's double the reason to consider supping her with zinc.

Wow, that's A LOT! I think I'd be dead if I'd gone through that. My stress that summer right after Ds was born is what sent my adrenals down the tubes. If they'd been strong enough to begin with, perhaps I could have handled that stress. Thank goodness we know about healing...

I'll look into zinc. I take it, but I don't know if it's a good form. Thanks for the tip.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Cilantro and kombucha both mobilize more than they can excrete on their own. I'd add nutrients first and then think about that type of stuff. Do you have funds for one hair test? About $85-ish from Doctor's Data, helps both with seeing some minerals as high or low (cal, mag, iodine, selenium, lots of good stuff) plus whether any heavy metals are high enough to be problematic. Vitamin C is good for adrenals anyway, separate from toxins, so that's a win.

Look into folate, and a) how much y'all's diet has on an ongoing basis, and b) whether you've got family health indicators that you may need more folate than most folks. Magnesium's almost always a winner, even though you surely eat more than most people, long-term deficiencies can take quite a while to catch up with, and if you have detoxification issues (low-level or otherwise) you may need more mag while you're doing that. Some folks use supps, some do epsom salts baths, some do both.

http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/mthfr.php
and the intro page here....
http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/

I should be getting ready to run out the door, but I have to come back to this with more time. I'd LOVE to do the hair test for each of us, at least Dd1 & myself for now. Thank you!!


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I should be getting ready to run out the door, but I have to come back to this with more time. I'd LOVE to do the hair test for each of us, at least Dd1 & myself for now. Thank you!!

The 2nd post down on this page discusses which test I think it's best to order. The thread is about mercury so you can probably just skim if you're interested, but as long as mercury's not an issue, you'll get useful info on mineral levels (mag and zinc can show really elevated when they're actually low, so asking for thoughts on the results may be helpful) and any elevated metals should be accurate. Some of the ratios for basic stuff like sodium, potassium, mag and cal can help show thyroid and adrenal issues when they're in their early stages (or they can show that they're really, really severe), Cutler's written a book on hair test interpretation (called Hair Test Interpretation) but at least a couple people in the Allergies forum have copies if you want to ask for thoughts.

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...435848&page=30


----------



## WuWei

JR, you forgot the house negotiations and some car issues, iirc.







And your mother!! (it is a marvel that you are still sane AND making three (5?) week menus for your family with all of their allergy issues!)

But you are an Amazing Woman!!

Pat


----------



## Vaquitita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Personally, I was more concerned about what effect my adrenal fatigue would have on the baby than vice versa since the baby's adrenals take much of the load off of mom's in the last trimester, often resulting in an infant born with adrenal fatigue...


i didn't know this. i don't think my children show signs of AF. no anxiety/nervousness. they both are allergic to cow milk, but not severely. which was not unexpected since their father was allergic to milk as a child. they can eat goat milk with no problems. we had no thrush, no yeast rashes. the only other issue dd has is teething. she didn't get her first tooth till 19mo, and now at 24 mo still only has 8 teeth. this does worry me, but i just haven't been able to handle researching a possible cause.

i listed my situation as starting back with birth of my first baby, but i didn't feel stressed until after the birth of my second baby. the elements that would lead to my later stress were there, but i was handling it ok. i was getting lots of sleep back then too, i was laid off the same week i found out i was pregnant again which was a blessing. i was eating a good TF diet too. I didn't know to support my adrenals specifically, but was getting lots of b vitamins and salt. and joy definitely outweighed stress until a couple months after dd was born. that's when ds started fighting his naps. and dd would get fussy cause it took so long to get him asleep. naptime became VERY stressful. taking rescue remedy helped, made it so i could hold on and get through it. though once he was asleep, i'd go devour something sugary. after a few months-six months of that i stopped trying to have him take a nap. which was nice that he would then sleep 7pm to 8am, but made for a tiring afternoon for me because i could not nap and i needed to.

sorry that was so long, i'm trying to talk it out, figure it out.


----------



## mamameliaISback

hi all









mind if i join in? i think i may have some adrenal insufficiency. a little background story:
i first noticed that i was feeling "not my usual" self following major surgery in 2000. i was 95lbs as it was and was put on a puree foods diet for two months following. 2 weeks after my surgery i also foolishly embarked on a full time university degree. i started to have chronic headaches, no doubt from the lack of nourishing food and heavy load. it was so bad my lecturers made plenty of exeptions for me when it came to assignments and exams and i asked to take the following semester off. it didn't do much, i was still extremely tired and run down. fast forward to the following year - PMS happens for the first time, migraines more frequent, am anemic etc and it continues with many brush offs from the medical profession as to that's how things are. fast forward to the next year, dh and i get married. stress reached a very high level, tried to kill myself at one point and i cant remember over what now (probably over how i wasn't ever able to do much without feeling like i was going to collapse). dh takes me to the hospital. fast forward to the following year, i have a very traumatic miscarriage that totally tore me down.. 2 months later i end up having the epstein-barr virus and it went undetected for two weeks as a throat infection in which i was given copius amounts of antibiotics. ended up in hospital on a drip because i hadn't been able to drink anything in 24 hours. 3 weeks later, i find out i am pregnant with dd1. her pregnancy was very, very difficult and stressful. i was losing amnio fluid and was on strict bed rest for over half of the pregnancy. give birth, severe PPD sets in. at 6 months PP i was suicidal again. dd NEVER slept in the day and only slept 20 mins tops (sometimes she'd wake up once every 40 minutes) every single night. i was becoming physcotic, hallucinating non a few occassions from the sheer exhaustion. never recieved treatment or help in any shape or form. my dh couldn't understand what the heck was going on, he just went to work, came home, put dd to sleep, made something to eat and went to bed. i spent most everyday crying and staring at the wall. 2y3m later, dd2 comes along (i had still been breastfeeding dd#1 up to this point). mild PPD sets in. 2 months later my dad dies unexpectedly. anxiety starts to get worse, PPD from dd#1 still not resolved. i noticed if i would drink coffee just once or eat something sugary, within a few hours i'd have a very sore throat and my body would be even more run down. breastfeeding was particularly hard on me and my dd#1 used to nurse all day long. i was constantly dizzy, light headed, run down..
2y4m later dd#3 comes along. started to develop ectopic beats, lot of chest pain, wierd headaches.. dd#3 doesn't like to sleep either (she is up every 60 mins) and nurses all day too.







started to have constant panic attacks in may when we had to find a place to move to and i developed a diff kind of headache they thought may have been an aneurysm.. my anxiety was.. i cant even explain.
anxiety is at an all time high. most days i cant function as i should. we wake up late, i still feel the need to sleep in the day for 3-4 hours but can't. i only have energy following a long nap for the first hour or so, then i start to almost drop off again soon after. i'm constantly dizzy and light headed, i am constantly anxious.. and i spend about 13 hours awake and even with a nap, i'm only energetic for maybe 1-2 hours in total. i can barely do anything around the house.
had some blood tests done recently, thyroid was normal but cholesterol and vit d were very low (total chol only 105).
i can't have any sugar without feeling a lot worse.. it seems like i need protein and fat all day only. even fruit sugar is not working out anymore. oh and i need to eat all the time, like once every hour otherwise the dizzyness gets worse.

i don't know where to begin on my search. i've been told its all in my head or its all due to the anxiety. anyone have any ideas? similar experiences? and if you've read this all, thank you so much.


----------



## mamameliaISback

oh i should add that almost any exertion will leave me with a headache and dizziness that is worse than the usual. i also still suffer from migraines.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

You're right, Pat, I did forget the house negotiations (and the house itself! Oy vey!)
mamaameliaISback, I had similar experiences to the daughter who wouldn't sleep with DS1 and I have to ask, have you ever had her tested for food intolerance or allergies? Also, what you're experiencing sounds like possible insulin resistance. Have you had your vitamin D levels tested? From everything you've described, I would hazard to say you would really benefit from adrenal support- b vitamins, vitamin C, vitamin D at the least. whoMe may suggest others and, of course, WuWei will suggest liver and ferments.







We each have our own way.


----------



## mamameliaISback

thanks jacqueline... she is off dairy and gluten.. i am too..
yes i had vit d tested, it was quite low.. it has been low for almost 5 years.. they said my blood sugars came back fine.. so im not sure about insulin resistance.. but i will look into it, thanks.


----------



## bluets

here's an interesting article abotu adrenal fatigue (in chickens) (and it is in my work's realm of expertise too, so i can justify a deeper read):

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2164/10/430

a synopsis - i haven't had time to critique the paper so this is a quick summary:

the test birds were injected with ACTH (Adrenocortotropic hormone). adrenal glands removed and examined for their response. (yes, all birds were sacrificed for this experiment - there's no way it can be done without sacrificing the animal)

treated animals ended up with significantly higher plasma corticosterone levels yet they were able to divide the treated animals into 2 subgroups, 1 with a high CORT response and 1 with a low CORT response.

for gene response, they made 2 types of comparisons: control vs high CORT (treated animals with high corticosterone response); high CORT vs low CORT

they found 134 genes(*) had different responses in the control/high CORT comparison, and only 4 genes with different responses in the high CORT/low CORT comparison. only 1 gene was shared between these 2 comparisons (this gene might be worthwhile doing a followup study for exact biochemical function)

apparently, many of those genes identified are important in the steroid hormone pathway. unfortunately many of the genes have unknown function (this is true many genomes as well) - so the investigators must now do fine-tuned biochemical work if they want to identify the function of the genes of interest.

the reference list should provide a listing of suitable starting set of references for those who want to do more reading about the published scientific work on adrenal function.

(*) these aren't full genes, they are technically only bits of genes, so called "transcripts" in the article


----------



## mom61508

I posted this already but wanted to post here since this may be adrenal or thyroid related. I'm having heart pounding at night. Not a fast heart rate but I can feel every beat in my throat and head. It's very uncomfortable.

Any ideas?


----------



## MyLittleWonders

I'm posting my blood test results (it took forever and thank goodness I knew better than to just accept their "your levels are all within the normal range" crud







: and had them mail me a copy). I'm already supp'ing vitamin D (6000 IU a day), but need help with the ferritin/iron issues and if I should do anything about the estrogen/progesterone stuff. (I'll probably also post on the allergy thread too.)

*Vit D*: 37 ng/mL (LabCorp did not do the testing though, so from everything I've read, I need to divide by 1.3 to get a more accurate level)
Adjusted: *28.43 ng/m*L - range "*insufficiency: 20-29 ng/mL*"

*Ferritin*: *13 ng/mL* - *reference 10-291 ng/mL*
Something tells me, I'm really, really low.









*TSH*: *1.048 uIU/mL* - *reference 0.350-5.500 uIU/mL*
I thought she ordered a full panel. Obviously not. Though, even with all those number, I probably would choose not to treat my thyroid at this point. According to the lab sheet, if the result is low, it tends to mean hyperthyroid; if it is high, it's hypothyroid. That is interesting simply because I present with hypothyroid symptoms.

*Estrodiol*: *200 pg/mL* - range (luteal phase, based on the draw) *22-256 pg/mL*
I've suspected estrogen dominance for a while and take supplements to keep from it taking over (I can tell when I don't take them too). This number seems really high (esp. when compared to the progesterone level).

*Progesterone*: *11.8 ng/mL* - range (luteal phase) *3.3-25.6 ng/mL*
Again, with the estrogen being so high (almost at the top), and this being at least than 50% of "normal range", I'm thinking estrogen dominance is really strong.

I'm wondering what I do for the ferritin levels - what is the best supplement to take for iron? And, do I address the progesterone/estrogen stuff? Right now I take D-Glucarate to keep me from having too many estrogen-dominant issues (though it doesn't affect the mood-related stuff: PMS, moodiness, etc.). I've tried DHEA and it totally screwed me up (I think it only worsened the estrogen dominance. Does anyone have experience with pregnenolone? Would that be something to look into for balancing it all out?

I have a feeling that aside from getting another blood test next year, my ob/gyn won't be too much of a help in treating this. I don't want to go with actual hormone therapy if I don't have to. But, I'm thinking correcting the imbalances and also upping my iron stores will help me feel tremendously better. (And will probably help my adrenals heal too.) Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 

I'm wondering what I do for the ferritin levels - what is the best supplement to take for iron?


LIVER!!







:







:







:

Pat


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
LIVER!!







:







:







:

Pat










see her response in chat.








nice to have the big guns back me up though.


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
LIVER!!







:







:







:

Pat


Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 








see her response in chat.








nice to have the big guns back me up though.

















!!!!!!!


----------



## mom61508

Is canary club the way to go for an adrenal saliva test? If so which one?

Basic adrenal and reproductive $99 but only test one sample of DHEA and cortisol plus hormones
Advanced adrenal and reproductive $159 test four samples of DHEA and cortisol plus hormones

I couldn't figure out how to order from diagnostics tech


----------



## mom61508




----------



## tanyalynn

A year ago we ordered from Canary club, a 4x/day test that was about $100. Let me see if I can figure out which one...

As far as I can tell, he got what they're labelling as the Advanced Adrenal & Reproductive test kit, which is a bummer because I'm pretty sure it was just under $100 in Aug08, but now it's listed at $159.

eta: I don't know of other places to order your own 4x/day saliva test, but with such a big price increase, I'd probably start searching around. I wonder if Direct Lab Services has something like this? DLS is another big place to order your own testing.

eta2: I was curious, I see a few things at DLS that test similar stuff (but a lot that are just 1x/day for cortisol as well) but they're all a bit more expensive.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
A year ago we ordered from Canary club, a 4x/day test that was about $100. Let me see if I can figure out which one...

As far as I can tell, he got what they're labelling as the Advanced Adrenal & Reproductive test kit, which is a bummer because I'm pretty sure it was just under $100 in Aug08, but now it's listed at $159.

eta: I don't know of other places to order your own 4x/day saliva test, but with such a big price increase, I'd probably start searching around. I wonder if Direct Lab Services has something like this? DLS is another big place to order your own testing.

Thank you Tanya. Maybe I will check with my ND to see what she uses


----------



## linguistmama

If I decide to switch to liver for b vitamins and zinc etc how much would be a good amount each day? It's $10 lb here and I'm wondering how much I'd have to eat to get enough benefits since I have adrenal and thyroid issues. Right now I'm taking this b-complex and am wondering if I would absorb more from liver and not need as high a level of the individual vitamins? That's already the theory I'm going on with the "whole food" vitamins as opposed to synthetic.

Looking at the whfoods website it seems like I'd need 4 oz per day which we couldn't afford, 2 oz a day would be fine if I can then eat a little less meat.


----------



## tanyalynn

Liver isn't really a good source of zinc, it has way more copper than zinc and they compete for absorption. Oysters are an excellent source of zinc.

.....

Speaking of food, does anyone have salty snack ideas? I'm thinking jerky may be salty (haven't looked at a recipe in years), but something odd has happened lately. We live in a warm climate, so lately now that the highs are only around 85F, it's feeling like autumn is really starting. And I don't know if it's the change in weather, or a change in DH, but lately when he sweats, he's leaving visible salt lines in his shirts. I mean that I can see from the outside of his shirt at the end of the day. Anyone experience something like this, or ever read about it?

But I'm wondering if he needs more salt, we salt food to taste, but he hates drinking salt water, and I know that helps me, so I have to wonder if a bit more salt would help him.

Thoughts? Snack ideas?


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
Looking at the whfoods website it seems like I'd need 4 oz per day which we couldn't afford, 2 oz a day would be fine if I can then eat a little less meat.

An ounce a day is fine. Or 3 ounces, 2-3 times per week, per my understanding. There is an 'upper limit'.









Only grass-fed beef or organic chicken though, imo.

Pat


----------



## MyLittleWonders

I need to figure out what to do for my oldest son - I think he has adrenal issues (always have suspected it). He just started fall baseball (this is the most competitive he has ever played and it's not as competitive as spring ball), and he has practice and games and it seems that it is corresponding to some behavior issues with him - he's much, much, much more quick to anger (quicker than a snap of the fingers), is tantruming over *everything*, and is having a hard time just transitioning through life. He takes a multi and a b-complex (half dose), and 2000 IU of vitamin D, but that's all right now. I've been very lax on fish oil and cod liver oil. He can swallow pills, which is nice. I'm not sure if GABA would help calm his system. Or if he needs magnesium (we've been really bad on getting the kids magnesium). Or omega 3's, or all of it. Any ideas?


----------



## linguistmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
An ounce a day is fine. Or 3 ounces, 2-3 times per week, per my understanding. There is an 'upper limit'.









Only grass-fed beef or organic chicken though, imo.

Pat

What's the upper limit? The stuff I'd buy is expensive since it is grass fed organic







I don't know if I would seriously consider it otherwise.


----------



## WuWei

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
What's the upper limit? The stuff I'd buy is expensive since it is grass fed organic







I don't know if I would seriously consider it otherwise.


I don't really know, off the top of my head. Are you craving liver?









Pat


----------



## linguistmama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
I don't really know, off the top of my head. Are you craving liver?









Pat

No, just like to know as much as possible. I'm feeling desperate to feel better though







I'd only be buying 1lb a week because of the cost. I need to learn how to muscle or crystal test myself, I'd love to be able to hold the piece of liver and make sure it was good for me. I love everything I've read about liver except the high copper content. I'd still be eating lots of pumpkin seeds and supping zinc to try to balance it out. Soaking pumpkin seeds wouldn't increase zinc would it?


----------



## bluets

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
I'm wondering what I do for the ferritin levels - what is the best supplement to take for iron? And, do I address the progesterone/estrogen stuff? Right now I take D-Glucarate to keep me from having too many estrogen-dominant issues (though it doesn't affect the mood-related stuff: PMS, moodiness, etc.). I've tried DHEA and it totally screwed me up (I think it only worsened the estrogen dominance. Does anyone have experience with pregnenolone? Would that be something to look into for balancing it all out?

I have a feeling that aside from getting another blood test next year, my ob/gyn won't be too much of a help in treating this. I don't want to go with actual hormone therapy if I don't have to. But, I'm thinking correcting the imbalances and also upping my iron stores will help me feel tremendously better. (And will probably help my adrenals heal too.) Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.









you can do saliva testing through NeuroScience - an a la carte sort of thing, about $17/hormone. insurance might cover it.

i use pregnenolone (a sublingual in the a.m.) because i know that my problem is in the progesterone/cortisol part of that whole steroid hormone pathway - my estrogen/estriol/estradiol and testosterone were normal, DHEA was way high. i also use a topical progesterone cream (Femarone 17) - which alone did wonders for my progesterone levels. my cycle went from 14 days to 28 days exactly during the first month of application (my herbalist/R.N. recommended 1 tsp per day from day 12, then 1 tsp twice per day from day 21, stop on day 28 or upon bleeding)

the other thing you could add to your diet would be dried mushrooms - like Reishi or Cordyceps. they have a similar effect of D-glucarate, but different. i got mine from mushroomharvest.com (i actually did the 14 blend) and i add a scoop to my morning beverage.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

nak
hormone test= order where?
what kinds of issues if hormones are off?
test effective while bfing?

eta: not wearing my glasses.. just noticed bluets' suggestion


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
nak
hormone test= order where?
what kinds of issues if hormones are off?
test effective while bfing?

eta: not wearing my glasses.. just noticed bluets' suggestion

I was just wondering the same thing. Are the saliva test accurate while your BF as far as your hormones go??
I'm wanting to saliva test adrenals and hormones but I'm still nursing DD


----------



## Metasequoia

Depends how old your nursling is. I tested when Ds was about 11 months & he had *just* begun trying foods other than BM. I didn't get my PPAF until he has 2.5 y.o., so my hormone levels were quite a bit low, especially that first time. I'm referring to my sex hormones, like estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, not stress hormones like cortisol & DHEA.

I don't know for sure, but I think if your stress hormones come back low, it means they're truly low. I'm sure the conversion skews things a bit, like the fact that your sex hormones might be low due to bfing, so perhaps conversions are off, but I don't really know.

I think my hormones are still off because of Ds still nursing, but I do know that I began to feel "better" when I got my PPAF. I say "better" because I'm just referring to hormonal feelings like my libido coming back - which to me means that my hormones picked up a bit.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
Depends how old your nursling is. I tested when Ds was about 11 months & he had *just* begun trying foods other than BM. I didn't get my PPAF until he has 2.5 y.o., so my hormone levels were quite a bit low, especially that first time. I'm referring to my sex hormones, like estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, not stress hormones like cortisol & DHEA.

I don't know for sure, but I think if your stress hormones come back low, it means they're truly low. I'm sure the conversion skews things a bit, like the fact that your sex hormones might be low due to bfing, so perhaps conversions are off, but I don't really know.

I think my hormones are still off because of Ds still nursing, but I do know that I began to feel "better" when I got my PPAF. I say "better" because I'm just referring to hormonal feelings like my libido coming back - which to me means that my hormones picked up a bit.

DD is 15 months old. She nurses 5-7 times in a 24 hour period and eats qute a few solids too. My period has not returned but wondering If it will now that DD has been sleeping thru the night now and not BF all night?
I have ZERO sex drive!


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Does anyone use a broad-spectrum type of amino acid supplement? We did custom ones for a while, but it was way too expensive (and I'm not sure if it were worth the price). I'm looking into the possibility of using a more general A.A. one now though. Any ideas?


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
DD is 15 months old. She nurses 5-7 times in a 24 hour period and eats qute a few solids too. My period has not returned but wondering If it will now that DD has been sleeping thru the night now and not BF all night?
I have ZERO sex drive!









Your card is in the mail.


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Your card is in the mail.
























hehe


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Your card is in the mail.


----------



## bluets

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 

I think my hormones are still off because of Ds still nursing, but I do know that I began to feel "better" when I got my PPAF. I say "better" because I'm just referring to hormonal feelings like my libido coming back - which to me means that my hormones picked up a bit.

I wasn't feeling adrenal fatigued but my cycles were super duper short. And, the whole reason I went to this particular HCP (an herbalist) was to initiate an herbal abortion (pregnant when I didn't want to be)... my cycles were so off that charting wasn't meaningful.

I had almost 12 hours of sleep last night with only 1 interruption. It's amazing what a solid chunk of sleep can do for one's adrenals!


----------



## bluets

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
DD is 15 months old. She nurses 5-7 times in a 24 hour period and eats qute a few solids too. My period has not returned but wondering If it will now that DD has been sleeping thru the night now and not BF all night?
I have ZERO sex drive!









At 15 months, my ds was still an avid night-time nurser because of day care (he'd store up his nursing desire until we got home). I didn't get PPAF until he was 22 months old. Now he's 4.5 yrs old and I still don't really have much of a sex drive.

But then, we're moms and we probably do most of the things around the house, handle child care + family booboos, manage finances and other household management, some do homeschooling, some WOH, etc etc. And our partners, for the most part, juggle their work with playtime with the kids and manage to sneak in some time for themselves (and also expect time with us). Sheesh, and we wonder why our adrenals are burnt out? My dh is great - most of the time, but still he doesn't worry about as many household-related things until and unless I place them solely on his "honey do" list (and get them out of my worrying domain). As I get better at delegating to him (I'm great at delegating, just not to him), his list gets much much longer. That's not saying that more and more things get done but it does mean that I don't worry about them anymore.


----------



## dhammamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders* 
Does anyone use a broad-spectrum type of amino acid supplement? We did custom ones for a while, but it was way too expensive (and I'm not sure if it were worth the price). I'm looking into the possibility of using a more general A.A. one now though. Any ideas?

I'm curious about these as well. Why are you considering them? My dr. wants me to test for these and possibly use them, but the price of all of that has me anxious.


----------



## dhammamama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
I posted this already but wanted to post here since this may be adrenal or thyroid related. I'm having heart pounding at night. Not a fast heart rate but I can feel every beat in my throat and head. It's very uncomfortable.

Any ideas?

Is it when you lie down?


----------



## MyLittleWonders

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dhammamama* 
I'm curious about these as well. Why are you considering them? My dr. wants me to test for these and possibly use them, but the price of all of that has me anxious.

Mostly for a couple reasons.







I used to take custom blend aminos; I'm not sure if they were doing enough to warrant the price, so I stopped. But, I also know I do not eat nearly enough protein, and I'm not sure how much I am assimilating of what I do eat (working on building up stomach acid and gut lining). So, taking at least a broad-spectrum would give my body an extra chance of getting what it needs, if that makes sense.

I think Kirkman Labs makes one; I might just order it to see how I do on it. (I've been pleased with their other products I have used.) I was just curious if anyone else here had used one. But, I am definitely needing to lean towards a more affordable way to do it (the custom ones were really expensive - especially since dh and I both used them and now both would need something supplement wise).


----------



## mom61508

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dhammamama* 
Is it when you lie down?

Yes! I really feel it when I'm in bed at night.

I'm taking less thyroid hormone and that has helped slightly but I'm still feeling the heartbeat in my thyroid and my thyroid is swelling again


----------



## srneda78

I am wondering if someone can help with my lab results from Diagnos-Techs. I saw my doctor today, but my 1 year old daughter was with me and we didn't get to discuss as much as necessary. Anyway...

My results are:
6-8 am: 7 (depressed)
11a-12noon: 3 (depressed)
4-5 pm: 1 (depressed)
10-midnight <1 (depressed)

Cortisol burden: 12 (normal 23-42)

DHEA: 4 (normal)

I'm so confused. Why is my DHEA normal? From what I can tell, I am a #5 on the cortisol-DHEA correlation, which says "Non-adapted, low reserves." What does this mean?

Also, it says, "Depressed morning cortisol <13 nM, is suggestive of marginal HPA performance." What does this mean?

I read a lot of the thread, but not all of it, so I am sorry if I missed a question like this.

Can someone help me please? Do I have adrenal fatigue or am I on the brink of it? The cortisol-DHEA correlation is confusing to me. My doctor gave me an adaptogen and a list of supplements. She said to come back in a month.

I also found out I am deficient in vitamin b-12, magnesium, zinc, and vitamin D. Yay.

Thanks in advance.

Shannon


----------



## nataliachick7

This is the most amazing website with the most amazing supplements for adrenal fatigue!!!

http://www.endfatigue.com/tools-supp...reatments.html

This is Jacob Teitelbaums website, author of "From fatigued to fantastic"


----------



## HeatherB

If anyone is in the Chicago area, please visit my post in the Illinois FYT area. Looking for a HCP to consult on adrenal fatigue:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...0#post14472390


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *srneda78* 
I am wondering if someone can help with my lab results from Diagnos-Techs. I saw my doctor today, but my 1 year old daughter was with me and we didn't get to discuss as much as necessary. Anyway...

My results are:
6-8 am: 7 (depressed)
11a-12noon: 3 (depressed)
4-5 pm: 1 (depressed)
10-midnight <1 (depressed)

Cortisol burden: 12 (normal 23-42)

DHEA: 4 (normal)

I'm so confused. Why is my DHEA normal? From what I can tell, I am a #5 on the cortisol-DHEA correlation, which says "Non-adapted, low reserves." What does this mean?

Also, it says, "Depressed morning cortisol <13 nM, is suggestive of marginal HPA performance." What does this mean?

I read a lot of the thread, but not all of it, so I am sorry if I missed a question like this.

Can someone help me please? Do I have adrenal fatigue or am I on the brink of it? The cortisol-DHEA correlation is confusing to me. My doctor gave me an adaptogen and a list of supplements. She said to come back in a month.

I also found out I am deficient in vitamin b-12, magnesium, zinc, and vitamin D. Yay.

Thanks in advance.

Shannon

Take a look at this page (and feel free to check out all the others too)....
http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%205.html

DHEA is in the normal ranges for stages 2 and 5, but it's trending there for different reasons (the explanations of all these stages have been quite helpful to me). Reading the progression from 1 to 7 has helped me understand where I am and what's going on.

You're fairly deep into adrenal fatigue. I doubt you feel that great on a day-to-day basis and this is part of it (though figuring out _why_ your adrenals got this fatigued will ultimately probably be helpful in healing).

HPA is, I think, hypothalamus-pituitary axis, if you google HPA axis, you'll learn more than I know.

Do you have ideas on why you're deficient in those nutrients?


----------



## dosmilagros

Hello ladies. I'm so glad I found this thread. It's incredibly long and impossible to read everything but I've learned a lot in the past few days.

I'm sort of recently diagnosed. I was told a few years ago after the ASI that I had an issue (now learning more, it was more of an issue that I realized). I'm currently waiting for the results of my next ASI, but I know it's not going to be good. I'm SOOOO anxious and discouraged. I feel like this a long and difficult journey and sometimes I feel hopeless. I would love to hear stories of people improving from adrenal fatigue. I hope they are out there.

I read Metasequoia's first entry in this thread and have contacted Dr. Neville at the Clymer Healing center. I liked him and he seemed to believe that there is indeed hope, but I'm just feeling quite discouraged. How does one go about improving this situation with 2 young kids (ie. can NEVER sleep between 7-9 as all the books say to), have a great deal of stress (mostly marital) and all the regular stuff.

Thanks.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dosmilagros* 
Hello ladies. I'm so glad I found this thread. It's incredibly long and impossible to read everything but I've learned a lot in the past few days.

I'm sort of recently diagnosed. I was told a few years ago after the ASI that I had an issue (now learning more, it was more of an issue that I realized). I'm currently waiting for the results of my next ASI, but I know it's not going to be good. I'm SOOOO anxious and discouraged. I feel like this a long and difficult journey and sometimes I feel hopeless. I would love to hear stories of people improving from adrenal fatigue. I hope they are out there.

I read Metasequoia's first entry in this thread and have contacted Dr. Neville at the Clymer Healing center. I liked him and he seemed to believe that there is indeed hope, but I'm just feeling quite discouraged. How does one go about improving this situation with 2 young kids (ie. can NEVER sleep between 7-9 as all the books say to), have a great deal of stress (mostly marital) and all the regular stuff.

Thanks.

Honestly, you just do the best you can and try to take time wherever you can to relax. You cut out caffeine, alcohol, sugar (if you can handle it- I cut down) and look for any possible food allergies or intolerances. You get a good adrenal support supplement and provide your body with adequate vitamin D, vitamin C and B vitamins. You take it slow and easy on yourself and you come here for support. You do your best to reduce your life from requiring 8 hands to just the 2 you have. You try to get your marriage back on track (believe me, I realize that's easier said than done).
At least, that's what I *was* doing. I need to get better on the diet and supplements front again. I've been doing well on the general reducing stress and taking it easy on myself part. Now, if I can just coordinate the 2 of them to happen at the same time, I might see some real progress.


----------



## AdoptChina

I haven't made it through the entire thread yet (Im trying...its looong lol) but Id like to order some saliva tests-----adrenal and hormone (think I may have adrenal fatigue and/or estrogen dominance)

Should I order these myself or have a Dr do it? Where is the best place to buy them?

thanks!


----------



## dosmilagros

Thanks JacuelineR. It's all so much easier said than done! I'm trying to implement as much as I can right now, while I await test results. Trying to get the kids out of my bed and into another is the biggest roadblock to my sleep right now.

I hope that many people have had success in their journeys. I'd love to hear any stories. And good luck on your continued efforts.


----------



## tanyalynn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdoptChina* 
I haven't made it through the entire thread yet (Im trying...its looong lol) but Id like to order some saliva tests-----adrenal and hormone (think I may have adrenal fatigue and/or estrogen dominance)

Should I order these myself or have a Dr do it? Where is the best place to buy them?

thanks!

A couple (several?) pages ago, we talked a bit about testing, the cheapest I could see (w/o a doctor, no idea what rates a doctor has access to, may be cheaper, may be more) was still through Canary Club. You'd want the one that mentions 4x/day testing, it used to be about $99 but I think it went up to around $169? Check a few pages ago for details, someone included the name of the test.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dosmilagros* 
I read Metasequoia's first entry in this thread and have contacted Dr. Neville at the Clymer Healing center. I liked him and he seemed to believe that there is indeed hope, but I'm just feeling quite discouraged. How does one go about improving this situation with 2 young kids (ie. can NEVER sleep between 7-9 as all the books say to), have a great deal of stress (mostly marital) and all the regular stuff.

Thanks.

Dr. Neville is GREAT! I saw him yesterday & he said that he got another patient from this thread.









Anxiety was the first symptom to go away for me & mine was crippling. I just noticed one day that it was gone! It was in the fall, after I had begun treatment that spring. It is slow-going because we're raising little people & that takes a lot out of us. I also understand the marital stress & have been through hell with it. Custody threats left & right, emotional abuse, but we lately have reached a place where we've been amicable. I just hope it lasts.

I think treating the adrenals will first help you feel better, then you'll actually be able to handle stress better so every little stress won't devastate you - the way it's supposed to work.

It's a long road, but so worth it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AdoptChina* 
I haven't made it through the entire thread yet (Im trying...its looong lol) but Id like to order some saliva tests-----adrenal and hormone (think I may have adrenal fatigue and/or estrogen dominance)

Should I order these myself or have a Dr do it? Where is the best place to buy them?

thanks!


Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
A couple (several?) pages ago, we talked a bit about testing, the cheapest I could see (w/o a doctor, no idea what rates a doctor has access to, may be cheaper, may be more) was still through Canary Club. You'd want the one that mentions 4x/day testing, it used to be about $99 but I think it went up to around $169? Check a few pages ago for details, someone included the name of the test.

I was at Clymer yesterday & an ASI through Diagnos-Techs is still $99. You can order the ASI kit directly from Diagnos-Techs & you'd just need a doctor's signature on the enclosed form in order to send in the samples. They'd send both you & your doc a copy of the results. From there, if you wanted, you could fax the results to Dr. Neville at Clymer & he can work with you over the phone.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
HPA is, I think, hypothalamus-pituitary axis, if you google HPA axis, you'll learn more than I know.

At my appt yesterday, I mentioned my brain fog when I go off the pregnenolone (which I did because I ran out & was waiting for my appt - which turned out to be a good thing because I did a male hormone panel yesterday & the pregnenolone would have skewed the results) & Dr. Neville gave me something he recently started taking himself called P-100. Dr. Poesnecker had done some research on it & I think Dr. Neville had just come across it. Anyway, it has to do with the HPA, I believe, and is supposed to help with brain fog & memory.

I'm trying to decide how to test it out since I now have a new supply of pregnenolone which Dr. Neville says I need to be on. I guess I'll start the pregnenolone today & after a couple of weeks, I'll add the P-100 to see if I notice any change.


----------



## Vaquitita

at what point would it be ok to do thyroid support? how would you know if it was too soon? i've been doing adrenal support for almost a year. i had my thyroid tested and it all came back normal, but my bbt was so low (96.7 pre-o) that a couple months ago i began taking this. It contains whole freeze dried Thyroid, Adrenal, Pituitary, Thymus, and Spleen Tissue from grass fed cows. i'm feeling good and my temps went up half a degree the first month, and seem to be up another half degree this month. this morning my temp was 97.8 and that's pre-o!! I would just like to know what the symptoms would be if this thyroid support is too soon and my adrenals are going to get overstressed again?

eta: i did not ever have the saliva test done, but going by my symptoms i was stage 2-3.


----------



## lil_miss_understood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vaquitita* 
at what point would it be ok to do thyroid support? how would you know if it was too soon? i've been doing adrenal support for almost a year. i had my thyroid tested and it all came back normal, but my bbt was so low (96.7 pre-o) that a couple months ago i began taking this. It contains whole freeze dried Thyroid, Adrenal, Pituitary, Thymus, and Spleen Tissue from grass fed cows. i'm feeling good and my temps went up half a degree the first month, and seem to be up another half degree this month. this morning my temp was 97.8 and that's pre-o!! I would just like to know what the symptoms would be if this thyroid support is too soon and my adrenals are going to get overstressed again?

Have you considered, alternatively, taking a good iodine supp and supporting vitamins and minerals for thyroid production? Selenium, zinc, iodine, vitamin C are what come to mind immediately though I'm sure someone else will chime in with other necessities.. I know i'm missing one of the B vites..


----------



## Vaquitita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Have you considered, alternatively, taking a good iodine supp and supporting vitamins and minerals for thyroid production? Selenium, zinc, iodine, vitamin C are what come to mind immediately though I'm sure someone else will chime in with other necessities.. I know i'm missing one of the B vites..

i have not taken iodine, i will look into that. i am taking sea salt, liver, cod liver oil, vitamin c, selenium, zinc, magnesium. the liver i've only been serious about taking for the past 6 months, everything else i've been taking for a year or more.

i feel good, i just wondered what the symptoms would be if there were any. it's doing something for me, it's obviously having an effect on my body temp. i'm kind of surprised it's having such a big effect. i was taking dr ron's organ delight which i found helpful but just too expensive. then i ran across the thyroid/etc blend at wilderness family naturals, though they don't seem to sell that one anymore.

eta: i really do feel GOOD. i've been slowly perking up over the past year, but the past couple months i've really been feeling well, normal. my energy doesn't totally crash mid-afternoon. i get tired sometimes, but i can still function even then. and i'm happy and enjoying my kids so much. my sex drive is still low, well not what it was prekids for sure. but i actually enjoy it when i have it, which is an improvement.


----------



## chlobo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
At my appt yesterday, I mentioned my brain fog when I go off the pregnenolone (which I did because I ran out & was waiting for my appt - which turned out to be a good thing because I did a male hormone panel yesterday & the pregnenolone would have skewed the results) & Dr. Neville gave me something he recently started taking himself called P-100. Dr. Poesnecker had done some research on it & I think Dr. Neville had just come across it. Anyway, it has to do with the HPA, I believe, and is supposed to help with brain fog & memory.

I'm trying to decide how to test it out since I now have a new supply of pregnenolone which Dr. Neville says I need to be on. I guess I'll start the pregnenolone today & after a couple of weeks, I'll add the P-100 to see if I notice any change.

Do you have a link to the p-100? I could use some memory & brian fog help.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vaquitita* 
at what point would it be ok to do thyroid support? how would you know if it was too soon? i've been doing adrenal support for almost a year. i had my thyroid tested and it all came back normal, but my bbt was so low (96.7 pre-o) that a couple months ago i began taking this. It contains whole freeze dried Thyroid, Adrenal, Pituitary, Thymus, and Spleen Tissue from grass fed cows. i'm feeling good and my temps went up half a degree the first month, and seem to be up another half degree this month. this morning my temp was 97.8 and that's pre-o!! I would just like to know what the symptoms would be if this thyroid support is too soon and my adrenals are going to get overstressed again?

eta: i did not ever have the saliva test done, but going by my symptoms i was stage 2-3.

This looks interesting. Dr. Neville asked me to look at Dr. Rind's temp chart online & start taking my temp every day to check my thyroid. I need to buy a thermometer...

But I always have cold hands & feet & with this new thinning hair, I have to wonder if it's my thyroid (though Dr. Neville did say that adrenal patients often lose hair down the middle, from front to back..)

I would think that if you're adrenals were taking a hit because of this supp., you'd feel more severe symptoms, like low BP, possible dizziness, more exhaustion, etc. Those are my symptoms when I know I've over-stressed my adrenals, plus a greater sensitivity to carbs/sugar.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Do you have a link to the p-100? I could use some memory & brian fog help.

I don't. It must be something that Dr. Neville bought a huge container of because he gave me 50 or 100 pills in a matchbox like box with P-100 written on top. I can ask him the full name for you. I haven't started taking it yet because I want to be on the pregnenolone for a while first just so I can tell if the P-100 is helping. Have you tried pregnenolone? I'm like a whole new person on it. Better memory, better able to find the words I want to use, less miss-speaking, etc.


----------



## chlobo

I have not tried pregnalone. I have a followup with my ND next week. I'll ask her about it. The other things we tried seemed not to help.


----------



## dosmilagros

Metaseqoia - I wonder if he (Neville) was referring to me - I mentioned this thread! Did you take any glandular support (sorry if it's been mentioned, I don't recall). I'm wondering about the Mil Andregan - I've been many references to it elsewhere and I think Neville recommends it. Is that where there is actual adrenal tissue? Are there any concerns about using it?

It does sound like a long road, but I"m up for it and willing to do whatever I need to do to stop this assault on my adrenals. I already have hashi's and gluten sensitivty and endometriosis, so I don't need any more stress on my body! I've been working with my acupuncturist for the past week or so on stress, as well as getting back into my mind-body relaxation tapes. It's starting to help. My biggest problem right now is getting sleep. My 2 kids have been sleeping with me but they really interrupt my sleep (especially my 3 yr old who makes a "moaning" noise periodically through the night. Now I lay awake waiting for his next moaning incident and I can't sleep). We're working on getting them into their own rooms (am trying to have them share, but his noisiness wakes my daughter up). My older one (5 in December) has never slept alone and really hates it, so it's really hard to make this transition when I am completely sleep-deprived, have a hard time falling asleep, staying asleep and going back to sleep. I'm hoping we can get something figured out so I can start gettign some sleep. When I got 4 straight hours on Thursday night, I felt almost like a new person on Friday. Can't even imagine what 8 straight hrs would be like!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
I have not tried pregnalone. I have a followup with my ND next week. I'll ask her about it. The other things we tried seemed not to help.

As soon as we got my saliva results back, almost 3 years ago, Dr. Neville started me on pregnenolone & Mil Adregen immediately. I think these two things helped immensely - that & getting rid of caffeine.

The pregnenolone is *awesome* for brain fog. Give it a week or two, but I think you'll notice a difference (& check with your doc first.)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dosmilagros* 
Metaseqoia - I wonder if he (Neville) was referring to me - I mentioned this thread! Did you take any glandular support (sorry if it's been mentioned, I don't recall). I'm wondering about the Mil Andregan - I've been many references to it elsewhere and I think Neville recommends it. Is that where there is actual adrenal tissue? Are there any concerns about using it?

It does sound like a long road, but I"m up for it and willing to do whatever I need to do to stop this assault on my adrenals. I already have hashi's and gluten sensitivty and endometriosis, so I don't need any more stress on my body! I've been working with my acupuncturist for the past week or so on stress, as well as getting back into my mind-body relaxation tapes. It's starting to help. My biggest problem right now is getting sleep. My 2 kids have been sleeping with me but they really interrupt my sleep (especially my 3 yr old who makes a "moaning" noise periodically through the night. Now I lay awake waiting for his next moaning incident and I can't sleep). We're working on getting them into their own rooms (am trying to have them share, but his noisiness wakes my daughter up). My older one (5 in December) has never slept alone and really hates it, so it's really hard to make this transition when I am completely sleep-deprived, have a hard time falling asleep, staying asleep and going back to sleep. I'm hoping we can get something figured out so I can start gettign some sleep. When I got 4 straight hours on Thursday night, I felt almost like a new person on Friday. Can't even imagine what 8 straight hrs would be like!

Yes, I've been taking Mil Adregen for almost 3 years. I'm up to 2 tablets in the morning, 2 at lunchtime & I'm supposed to take 2 at dinnertime as well, but I don't because I'm afraid it will be too stimulating - but I've never tried it. I should because I know my body needs it. Yes, it has raw adrenal tissue, among other glandular tissues. I also try to eat raw beef liver as much as possible & this gives me instant energy. All of the B vitamins & A are power foods for the adrenals. I have no concerns about taking it & Dr. Neville obviously thinks it's safe.

So you're off gluten, right? Gluten allergy seems to be really common in adrenal fatigue - hard to say which came first. I'm hoping that healing my adrenals will heal my food allergies - though I'll never eat gluten again.

Do you think your son might have sleep apnea? Not to sound alarmist, but it could be dangerous. Have you mentioned it to Dr. Neville? If I ever bring something up about my kids, he usually has suggestions on how to help. Does it wake your son? It obviously affects your daughter, which isn't good for her adrenals, in the long run.

What if you let her sleep in the other room alone & you slept with your son (since he obviously still need that security) & you used some kind of ear plugs? Do you use any kind of white noise? We sleep with a fan just for the noise...


----------



## Vaquitita

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
I would think that if you're adrenals were taking a hit because of this supp., you'd feel more severe symptoms, like low BP, possible dizziness, more exhaustion, etc. Those are my symptoms when I know I've over-stressed my adrenals, plus a greater sensitivity to carbs/sugar.

well i have not had my symptoms worsen. i am noticing my bbt is rather erratic the past week or two. the day i posted my temp was 97.8, the next day it was 96.9, today 97.3. according to dr. rind erratic temps is adrenal fatigue. my eating is way off this past month, cause we're remodeling our kitchen. so that is not helping.


----------



## Metasequoia

Hrm, I guess that could be a sign of adrenal stress if your temps were previously more even - were they?

OT: I hate when I type "you're" for "your" & get quoted on it.


----------



## Vaquitita

yes they (my temps) were, i guess the more uneven temps is what got me wondering if it was too soon. the same company makes an adrenal organ capsule that i'd like to try. i think i'll back off the thyroid for now. and try again later.


----------



## sublimemommy

I'm still trying to browse through this! Wondering if virgin coconut oil has been discussed yet?


----------



## sublimemommy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
PB, I'm thinking first-born gets more toxin dumps. Last-born gets least nutrients. Where the balance shifts







We are meant to procreate and nurse.









Pat


Yes


----------



## dosmilagros

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
As soon as we got my saliva results back, almost 3 years ago, Dr. Neville started me on pregnenolone & Mil Adregen immediately. I think these two things helped immensely - that & getting rid of caffeine.

The pregnenolone is *awesome* for brain fog. Give it a week or two, but I think you'll notice a difference (& check with your doc first.)

Yes, I've been taking Mil Adregen for almost 3 years. I'm up to 2 tablets in the morning, 2 at lunchtime & I'm supposed to take 2 at dinnertime as well, but I don't because I'm afraid it will be too stimulating - but I've never tried it. I should because I know my body needs it. Yes, it has raw adrenal tissue, among other glandular tissues. I also try to eat raw beef liver as much as possible & this gives me instant energy. All of the B vitamins & A are power foods for the adrenals. I have no concerns about taking it & Dr. Neville obviously thinks it's safe.

So you're off gluten, right? Gluten allergy seems to be really common in adrenal fatigue - hard to say which came first. I'm hoping that healing my adrenals will heal my food allergies - though I'll never eat gluten again.

Do you think your son might have sleep apnea? Not to sound alarmist, but it could be dangerous. Have you mentioned it to Dr. Neville? If I ever bring something up about my kids, he usually has suggestions on how to help. Does it wake your son? It obviously affects your daughter, which isn't good for her adrenals, in the long run.

What if you let her sleep in the other room alone & you slept with your son (since he obviously still need that security) & you used some kind of ear plugs? Do you use any kind of white noise? We sleep with a fan just for the noise...

I actually think we're making progress on the sleep issue with the kids so I'm feeling a little hopeful about that. Had a bad night last night, though, with my daughter up with a fever and a croup-y cough.

I'm starting to get quite anxious about my situation. I've joined the adrenal fatigue yahoo group and there's a woman on that who seems to know quite a lot and she has me a bit concerned. My ACTH came back high in bloodwork at my regular endo appt for my thyroid (they decided to test ACTH and cortisol). So that sent me to other doctors for the saliva testing. I believe that it is due to the strain on the adrenals and the pituitary is working extra hard to get the adrenals to do what they need to do. But my endo wants to test for Cushings and if that's negative, then other things. I don't know if I want to do the dexamethasone suppression test (for Cushings) because I'm concerned of artificially suppressing an already struggling system. I'm trying to get into another doctor for a second opinion on that but it's going to take time. As soon as my saliva tests are back, I want to start treatment, but people are starting to tell me that I need to do this testing first to rule things out. Like I said, I'm scared of the testing and its affect on my system. Has anyone else done this? I had been hoping to get advice from Dr. Neville on this but he hasn't responded to my email that I sent him with the health history that he requested.

I'm VERY anxious about my situation. I had been in a decent place for a few days but now I'm back to being in a bad place....


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dosmilagros* 
I had been hoping to get advice from Dr. Neville on this but he hasn't responded to my email that I sent him with the health history that he requested.

I'm VERY anxious about my situation. I had been in a decent place for a few days but now I'm back to being in a bad place....

It sometimes takes him a week or so to respond to me, I assume he's just really busy. You could always call - Veronica a the desk is really nice & understanding. you can explain your situation (that your doc is pushing for this invasive test) & that you'd like to run it by Dr. Neville first.


----------



## dosmilagros

I actually just hung up with him. He's very calming. I'm struggling with figuring out which doctor I want to be the "lead" doctor on this. I definitely like him but I always worry about how to know if his way is the "right" way or best way for me. (Can you tell I've had some bad doctor experiences!). It also makes me a little nervous to never actually meet him and him me. But he definitely seems to know what he's talking about and has a lot of patients with similar issues. He definitely gives me hope, which is what I need right about now......


----------



## dhammamama

I'm curious-- for those taking pregnenolone, what dose are you using? My dhea is very low, and I'm on RX topical, but wondering if oral pregnenolone might be a better choice?? Or maybe oral dhea..... ?


----------



## luv2sewgrrl

I've found Dr. Wilson's products to be very helpful (he's the man who coined the term and the diagnosis for "adrenal fatigue" - http://www.adrenalfatigue.org

Additionally this e-book has helped me out a lot:
http://www.seriousstressreduction.com


----------



## LessTraveledBy

Woe... I have only made it to page 7 so far... Lots of great information.

I am waiting for my saliva test results right now. Since I have hypo, I suppose I likely have AF as well.

Since my hypo ws found due to secondary infertility, we have had to use nfp until my levels get better. (Tough, when we hve hoped for a baby for years.) Could anyone give me an idea of what will happen if I indeed have AF. Does it mean more nfp while I take cortisone or what.... From what I understand, many people take a year until they can wean of f of the cortisone, and I am not getting any younger... This is really messing with my head right now.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dhammamama* 
I'm curious-- for those taking pregnenolone, what dose are you using? My dhea is very low, and I'm on RX topical, but wondering if oral pregnenolone might be a better choice?? Or maybe oral dhea..... ?

I take 60mg/day, orally. My DHEA is low too - a "1" on the Diagnos-Techs scale. I had run out & just restarted a couple of weeks ago.
Supplemental DHEA has the risk of causing masculanizing effects. Pregnenolone is much less likely to cause this.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anumaria* 
Woe... I have only made it to page 7 so far... Lots of great information.

I am waiting for my saliva test results right now. Since I have hypo, I suppose I likely have AF as well.

Since my hypo ws found due to secondary infertility, we have had to use nfp until my levels get better. (Tough, when we hve hoped for a baby for years.) Could anyone give me an idea of what will happen if I indeed have AF. Does it mean more nfp while I take cortisone or what.... From what I understand, many people take a year until they can wean of f of the cortisone, and I am not getting any younger... This is really messing with my head right now.

I wouldn't recommend taking cortisone, it's just a bandaid approach & can really mess up your system. It can also be VERY hard to wean off of. Supporting your adrenals with supplements, by eliminating stress & by nurturing your body are more efficient methods of healing your adrenals.


----------



## Metasequoia

I did a Diagnos-Techs male hormone panel a couple of weeks ago & the results are as follows:

DHEA - 1 - Depressed - Reference range: 3-10 ng/ml

Progesterone - 166 - Reference range: 100-300 pg/ml

Androstenedione - 380 - Reference range: 125-274 pg/ml (!!)

Testosterone - 16 - Reference range: 5-7 pg/ml - 8-20 pg/ml (marked as "normal")

Estrone - 12 - Reference range: 30-58 pg/ml

DHT - 15 - Reference range: 15-75 pg/ml

My results fall into these reference ranges according to age:

Testosterone (male): >70 years (15-45 pg/ml)

Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (Male): not on the chart - closest range is 22-72 pg/ml for ages 30-39 yrs. (I guess that means mine isn't abnormally high.)

Androstenedione (Male > 15 years): 351-450 pg/ml is the "Borderline High" range - normal is 151-350 pg/ml - for a male over 15 yrs. Mine was 380 pg/ml - so mine is high even for a man.

Androstenedione (Female > 15 years): 275 - 400 pg/ml is the "Borderline High" range, normal is 125-274 pg/ml for a female over 15 years of age. Again, mine was 380 pg/ml.

Estrone (Female): Mine was 12, clearly VERY low.

38-68 pg/ml - 40-49 yrs
26-64 pg/ml - 50-59 yrs
35-65 pg/ml - > 60 yrs

I tested on cycle day 21, which was when the test is supposed to be taken. My cycle has been 31 days almost like clockwork & here we are on CD 36 with no period yet. I hope this hasn't thrown off my test.

SO, I haven't spoken to my ND yet, but I'm not sure what this all means. We did the male hormone panel for a few reasons. I tend to be fairly hairy - have been since my pre-teens. Recently my hair began thinning (not noticeably to anyone else) right at the front of my scalp, only in the middle. High levels of Dihydrotestosterone, or DHT, can cause thinning and baldness. That's what's to blame for male pattern baldness in men & in women - usually with PCOS. But my DHT doesn't appear to be high.

My estrone appears to be quite low - not sure how this is supposed to relate to where I was in my cycle, but it's not even in any of the reference ranges.

My Androstenedione is outrageously high. I don't know what this means. Here's what Androstenedione does in the body:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Wiki*
Androstenedione (also known as 4-androstenedione) is a 19-carbon steroid hormone produced in the adrenal glands and the gonads as an intermediate step in the biochemical pathway that produces the androgen testosterone and the estrogens estrone and estradiol.

Androstenedione is the common precursor of male and female sex hormones. Some androstenedione is also secreted into the plasma, and may be converted in peripheral tissues to testosterone and estrogens.

Androstenedione originates either from the conversion of dehydroepiandrosterone or from 17-hydroxyprogesterone. Conversion of dehydroepiandrosterone to androstenedione requires 3Beta Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase. 17-hydroxyprogesterone, on the other hand, requires 17,20 lyase for its synthesis. Thus, both reactions that produce androstenedione directly or indirectly depend on 17,20 lyase.

Androstenedione is further converted to either testosterone or estrogen. Conversion of androstenedione to testosterone requires the enzyme 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, while conversion of androstenedione to estrogen (e.g. estrone and estradiol) requires the enzyme aromatase.

The production of adrenal androstenedione is governed by ACTH, whereas production of gonadal androstenedione is under control by gonadotropins. In premenopausal women, the adrenal glands and ovaries each produce about half of the total androstendione (about 3 mg/day). After menopause, androstenedione production is about halved, primarily due to the reduction of the steroid secreted by the ovary. Nevertheless, androstenedione is the principal steroid produced by the postmenopausal ovary.

In females, androstenedione is released into the blood by theca cells. The function of this is to provide androstenedione substrate for estrogen production in granulosa cells, since these cells lack 17,20 lyase required for androstenedione. Similarly, theca cells lack the enzyme aromatase required to make estrogens themselves. Thus, theca cells and granulosa cells work together to form estrogen.

And I found this about high androstenedione in women:

Quote:

Excessive androgen production is a universal finding in PCOS and studies have demonstrated that theca cells from PCO ovaries produce significantly more androstenedione than theca cells from normal follicles; moreover, higher androstenedione concentrations have been found in PCO follicles than in normal follicles.
Hyperinsulinaemia and insulin resistance are important PCOS features, and at the cellular level, insulin has specific actions on steroidogenesis which are effected through its own receptor.
- http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...ull/16/10/2061

And this:

Quote:

In women, high levels of androstenedione (47-100% above normal) are generally found in hirsutism, mostly in combination with other androgens as testosterone and DHEA-S. Androstenedione overproduction is due to ovarian dysfunction *or maybe of adrenal origin*.
- http://www.genwaybio.com/product_inf...ucts_id=205044

Also listed, I've read that high levels of androstenedione can be caused by adreno-cortical tumors and adrenal hyperplasia. Ugh, this is when I should stop Googling.

I'm confused because my testosterone isn't really high even though my adrostenedione is. I think that the high level of androstenedione could explain my sensitivity to carbs & sugar (insulin response.) Sounds like a PCOS issue.

I hope my ND has calming things to say about this.


----------



## Metasequoia

Oh, and Androstenedione is used by body builders & athletes to build muscle and I seem to be able to build A LOT of muscle in a very short amount of time. I have a ton of definition, especially in my arms & I only started working out early this summer.


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## Metasequoia

I posted this in H&H too:

I was rereading Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000 by Dr. Poesnecker (who trained my ND) & this paragraph stuck with me:

Quote:

It is important to make a distinction between the use of endocrine hormones and endocrine substances. Even these early investigators realized that if the body is given a hormone which is produced by an endocrine gland, the gland, due to the natural functioning of the body's homeostatic mechanism, will stop producing its own hormone as long as the external hormone is being supplied. If this process is carried out long enough, the gland involved will actually atrophy, and eventually it stops producing hormones. If, on the other hand, a patient is given glandular substance that is free from hormones but contains the other nutrient elements of the gland intact, this substance acts as a food to build and regenerate the gland, so that it may once again be able to regain proper functioning on its own.


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## bluets

so the conversion goes like the sketch in my ugly picture at https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1907016/steroidhormones.png
(a more scientific view at http://www.genome.jp/kegg-bin/show_p...ko00140+C00410)

adrenal hyperplasia simply means that the adrenals aren't functioning properly to kick out the hormones that they govern. that is, there are some congenital hyperplasias that inhibit the hydroxylases (in the cytochrome P450 complex) in this pathway. cholesterol is a huge 27-carbon molecule, and it takes some chopping to whittle it down to the 18-carbon compound like estradiol. examples of the most commonly known ones are at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congeni...al_hyperplasia

(and since these are mutations, there are "easy" genetic screens/tests that can be done to detect those mutations)

recall also that the adrenal gland kicks out 3 different steroid hormones: cortisol (from the middle layer of the adrenal cortex), aldosterone (from the outer layer of the adrenal cortex), and the androgens (from the inner and middle layers of the adrenal cortex). androgens are converted to the highly potent hormones out in the peripheral tissues, not in the adrenal gland.

Metasequoia - it seems like there must be a dysfunction in the metabolism of androstenedione, particularly leading towards estrone (http://www.genome.jp/kegg/pathway/ko/ko00150.html) - ergo, there could be a blockage in the enzyme function inhibiting the breakdown. you could have overactive enzymes that cause it to break down into adrenosterone or 3-glucuronide instead of heading along to estrone. (or you could have an underactive enzyme that breaks it down into estrone)


----------



## Metasequoia

bluets, I love you!!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
Metasequoia - it seems like there must be a dysfunction in the metabolism of androstenedione, particularly leading towards estrone

This was my first though when I saw my results. Yay, my brain works!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
ergo, there could be a blockage in the enzyme function inhibiting the breakdown. you could have overactive enzymes that cause it to break down into adrenosterone or 3-glucuronide instead of heading along to estrone. (or you could have an underactive enzyme that breaks it down into estrone)

How would one fix this dysfuntion?

Thank you SO much for explaining this to me.


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
so the conversion goes like the sketch in my ugly picture at https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1907016/steroidhormones.png
(a more scientific view at http://www.genome.jp/kegg-bin/show_p...ko00140+C00410)

adrenal hyperplasia simply means that the adrenals aren't functioning properly to kick out the hormones that they govern. that is, there are some congenital hyperplasias that inhibit the hydroxylases (in the cytochrome P450 complex) in this pathway. cholesterol is a huge 27-carbon molecule, and it takes some chopping to whittle it down to the 18-carbon compound like estradiol. examples of the most commonly known ones are at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congeni...al_hyperplasia

(and since these are mutations, there are "easy" genetic screens/tests that can be done to detect those mutations)

recall also that the adrenal gland kicks out 3 different steroid hormones: cortisol (from the middle layer of the adrenal cortex), aldosterone (from the outer layer of the adrenal cortex), and the androgens (from the inner and middle layers of the adrenal cortex). androgens are converted to the highly potent hormones out in the peripheral tissues, not in the adrenal gland.

Metasequoia - it seems like there must be a dysfunction in the metabolism of androstenedione, particularly leading towards estrone (http://www.genome.jp/kegg/pathway/ko/ko00150.html) - ergo, there could be a blockage in the enzyme function inhibiting the breakdown. you could have overactive enzymes that cause it to break down into adrenosterone or 3-glucuronide instead of heading along to estrone. (or you could have an underactive enzyme that breaks it down into estrone)

So I've been reading on Wiki from your link & it seems that this enzyme dysfunction could be from a congenital mutation. And of course, the only treatment listed is steroids.









What bothers me more is that Dd2 seems like she could have also inherited this. She's 6.5 yrs old now & ever since she was maybe 2 or 3 yrs old, she's had nose hairs, a slight dark mustache & is definitely more muscular than her older sister. her leg hair is also darker & thicker than what seems more common.
















I've always felt that Dd1 was the one who got the short stick as far as adrenal health, but maybe Dd2 is even worse off.

I need to know that there is a more holistic treatment than glucocorticoids.


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## momofmine

Hey guys,
I am jumping in here because I read some posts about people using Diagnos-Techs for panels. I am going to get a stool test for my son, and I am trying to decide between Genova or Diagnos-Techs. I know this is different, but does anybody have an opinion on that?
Thanks!


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momofmine* 
Hey guys,
I am jumping in here because I read some posts about people using Diagnos-Techs for panels. I am going to get a stool test for my son, and I am trying to decide between Genova or Diagnos-Techs. I know this is different, but does anybody have an opinion on that?
Thanks!

I don't have any experience with stool testing, but I think I've heard good things about Great Smokies Lab for this. (?)

ETA: correction, I think I'm thinking of Entero-Labs for stool testing...


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## Goddess3_2005

Can someone tell me if perifiral neropathy is part of this? I have just been diagnosed with this and I have numbness in my face, neck and upper back and toung that has been undiagnosed as of yet..


----------



## bluets

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia* 
How would one fix this dysfuntion?

Thank you SO much for explaining this to me.









i think you might need to do some more pinpointing to figure out the exact problem. if your CYP pathway is dysfunctional, you'll have additional problems: http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/....120501.150216

so... i'd start digging to see if there are tests to determine genetic mutations in the steroid hormone pathway that you can take to find out exactly which one (if any) you have. or see if there are tests for other metabolites downstream from androstenedione to see if there are other pathways... i'm not sure if these hydroxylases are enzymes that one can take orally.

what i did learn in this digging is that some of the chemo drugs for breast cancer therapy try to suppress the conversion of androstenedione to estrone.

should we spin off your steroid hormone pathway discussion into its own thread? or do you think this still belongs in this gigantic thread?


----------



## Metasequoia

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
i think you might need to do some more pinpointing to figure out the exact problem. if your CYP pathway is dysfunctional, you'll have additional problems: http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/....120501.150216

so... i'd start digging to see if there are tests to determine genetic mutations in the steroid hormone pathway that you can take to find out exactly which one (if any) you have. or see if there are tests for other metabolites downstream from androstenedione to see if there are other pathways... i'm not sure if these hydroxylases are enzymes that one can take orally.

what i did learn in this digging is that some of the chemo drugs for breast cancer therapy try to suppress the conversion of androstenedione to estrone.

should we spin off your steroid hormone pathway discussion into its own thread? or do you think this still belongs in this gigantic thread?

I think I need to be a member of something to read that page you linked to.

I think I'm getting lost - my head is spinning.

What does that imply about the chemo drugs? That I could have somehow been exposed to this & therefore my build up of androstenedione could be because it's not converting to estrone? My mother never took chemo drugs, nor have I.

We can definitely make a spin-off thread, but I have no idea what to title it...all of this pathway talk if Greek to me.


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## georgia

Hi! I just noticed this thread has surpassed 2,000 posts, and typically, we need threads to stay under 2K posts or server can get cranky. Please feel free to start a new thread and link back to this one in the OP. Thanks so much, and sorry for the inconvenience!


----------



## JennEld

In response to "The Adrenal Fatigue Thread"

I was amazed after i read your post. I too have Adrenal Fatigue, and just finished my first appt (after my saliza test results) with Dr. Neville. It seems you and I are reading from the same book. All of your test results and medications he recommended are very much the same as mine.

I've been on a journey now for almost 20 years trying to figure out some of my issues, the biggest one being weight gain or inability to loose weight. No matter what do, extreme exercise, low calories, etc. nothing seem to work. Although, while doing this type of extreme physical activity 6 days a week for the past 15 years, I've damaged my adrenal glands even more. I'm excited to know, there is hope to feeling better. Some of my symptoms are; anxiety, depression, hair falling out, foggy thinking, light headedness, dehydration, heart palpitations, weight issues, etc.

For the past 10 years, I've only ate a whole food diet, so that won't have to change much. Dr. Neville and I discussed my exercise program. I didn't think I could go without any exercise at all, so we compromised. I'll be shortening duration of training and replacing my strenuous routine with a more relaxing walk or stationary bike type of exercise. No more spinning classes, circuit and interval training, or running for me. I'll still maintain my weight training regime, but perhaps not so heavy or frequently.

No way to eliminate my stressful job at the moment, so that I'll just to deal with. I'll need to work on not letting things stress me out too much and learn to roll with the punches. Just do your best and let the cards fall where they will. Being that I'm in sales, that's easier said than done. Something to work towards...breath...relax.

All the medicaitons you listed are the same ones he put me on too. So, i'm taking all those plus my regular mult vitamin, vitamin c, b complex, selenium, thyroid complex, vitamin e and kelp. I noticed a big difference when I started taking kelp. You're right we need lots of salt and kelp has really help replace alot of the iodine my body was lacking. So, in actually it's not the salt that you need, it's the iodine it possess. The best form of iodine can be found in a unrefined salt product. Much like the one you mentioned. I had a iodine test taken and I was only 50% to capacity. Normal levels should be around 90%.

In addition to seeing Dr. Neville, I also see Arlene Curley from the Greenshire Art Consortium. She is a Reiki Master and works on adrenal glands too. She's wonderful and I would highly recommend seeing her as another part of your adrenal routine. She is affiliated with the Clymer Center and had originally recommeded I see Dr. Neville.

I'm interested in seeing more posts from you and read about your progress, and I'll do the same.


----------



## Metasequoia

I'm amazed how long this original thread is.

I just reread my last post on this thread (we have a new adrenal fatigue thread because this one got too long for the server) and we were talking about chemo drugs. I've since found out that a chemo drug is used to end pregnancies that aren't where they should be (ectopic) and it got me wondering where else chemo drugs are used besides cancer treatment... Interesting.


----------



## bert1982

Hi Metasequoia,

I am also recovering from adrenal fatigue. it is quite a complex process to heal your adrenals, because there a quite some factors that influence the adrenals. What i found out is that the adrenals are quite resilient, but like everything else they need to get a break to heal. Most important is to understand that there are root causes and other causes.
In my case mercury was the root cause, but gluten was definitely a cause in my lack of progress.

To support my adrenals i use a supplement called metarelax: Metarelax supplement, this calms me a bit down during the day and it helps me with my sleep during the night. Since i use it i have better sleep, with lots more deep sleep (sleep app). I also use some other supplements, vitamin C en E are quite important.

Have you made much progress since?


----------



## dillpickle13

I was wondering if any of you have had adrenal fatigue during pregnancy. I feel like I have had to quit taking many supplements. What has helped you that is safe.


----------



## mokshimama

Metasequoia said:


> I've posted in a few threads about my recent diagnosis of Adrenal Fatigue & have had a few requests to start a specific thread, so here it goes!
> Anyone else who is on this journey to heal their adrenals, please join in the discussion! I plan on updating after every appointment.
> 
> I go to Clymer Healing Center in Quakertown, PA. Dr. Neville (95% of his patients are adrenal patients), has phone-appts from all over the world every day. Last time I was there, he had one from Poland & one from Turkey. Here's their other site, on CFIDS/Fibro (see below.)
> 
> I did an ASI saliva test (Adrenal Stress Index.) That should be the first step - my doctor ordered mine through DiagnosTechs lab. After that, he came up with a healing plan. Everyone is different & the saliva test is essential in finding out what phase of adrenal exhaustion you're in. It cost me $99.
> 
> Here are my saliva test results:
> 
> Adrenal Stress Index (ASI) 3/07:
> 
> Free cortisol rhythym****** Reference Range
> 
> 7:00-8:00am - *10 Depressed* 13-24 nM
> 11:00-noon - *3 Depressed* 5-10 nM
> 4:00-5:00pm - *2 Depressed* 3-8 nM
> 11:00-midnight - *2 Normal* 1-4 nM
> 
> Cortisol burden - *17* 23-42
> 
> DHEA - *2 - Depressed* 3-10 ng/ml
> 
> According to the "Cortisol-DHEA Correlation Zone, I am in zone 7 (Adrenal Fatigue), the lowest possible zone - 1 is the highest & is called "Adapted to Stress."
> 
> I also have Hypoglycemia, which is the first symptom of adrenal fatigue - I've had it for as long as I can remember.
> 
> Total Salivary SIgA Reference Range
> 
> *5 - Depressed* Normal: 25-60 mg/dl Borderline: 20-25 mg/dl
> 
> Just for comparison's sake, here are my blood test results (from 2/07) - the saliva test is SO much more accurate!
> 
> *
> My progesterone is non-existant, <.5, less than a post menopausal woman.*
> 
> My estradiol (estrogen) is 22, which is in range. (Not very accurate.)
> 
> My testosterone is in range, but towards the lower end. (Total - 12, free - 1.2)
> 
> *My DHEA is very low, 35, the reference range is 40-325.*
> 
> My cortisol is 13.5, which is in range. *(HA! This is why you need to do a saliva test throughout the day!)*
> 
> Vitamin D was 37, in range (I've heard that 40 is ideal & you don't want to go over 50.)
> 
> Thyroid: (doctor said this was good.)
> T-4, free - 1.1
> TSH - 1.86
> T-3, free - 296
> 
> There is a book called Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000 that was written by Dr. Gerald Poesnecker. Dr. Poesnecker worked at Clymer for 40+ years researching adrenal fatigue & treating patients. His theory is that Chronic Fatigue & Fibromyalgia is a double sided coin, both caused by adrenal fatigue. My doctor, Dr. Neville, worked alongside Dr. Poesnecker & before Dr. Poesnecker passed away in 2004, he chose Dr. Neville to take over his work & patients. Oh, and a bonus, he's really into WAPF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have physical fatigue even though my test results would suggest so. I have the "dread horror anxiety" that is a symptom of adrenal fatigue. My body just doesn't have the cortisol to cope with any type of stress, physical or emotional. I need to try to cut back on nighttime nursing, that's the only issue that I can't control. I've had no caffeine for almost 4 months now, don't even crave it. I have had a few bites of chocolate (mostly on easter) but I've been really good about not having it.
> 
> My doctor asked if I was eating enough red meat, so I think that animal protein is very important when dealing with adrenal fatigue. I feel like I eat enough, I eat 2-3 eggs every morning for breakfast & some form of animal protein each night, beef, chicken or salmon usually.
> 
> The important supplements are a high quality B-complex, vitamin c (sodium ascorbate is good) & a magnesium supplement, also a good multi vitamin/mineral. The diet *must* be a whole foods diet, no crappy processed/packaged foods. Another big recommendation is salt & lots of it.
> 
> I salt everything heavily (sea salt.) My doctor wanted me to drink a glass of salt water first thing in the morning & I tried but I couldn't do it.
> I limit potassium intake, no bananas, dates, figs, minimal fruit. Breakfast is VERY important, something with protein & lots of salt. No juices, minimal sweetener in teas - I use a dab of honey.
> 
> Dehydration is a biggie for AF patients. We have a problem with the sodium/potassium ratio (why we shouldn't eat potassium rich foods & need lots of salt.) I know when I first wake up in the morning, all I want to do is chug down 2 pints of water, but I have to wait until I get a good amount of salt in my system.
> When I first wake in the morning, I cook eggs & salt them very heavily - after I eat them, then I can drink water, but plain water on an empty stomach is a no-no. We need *a lot* of salt. You'd be surprised how many people suffer unknowingly from some degree of adrenal fatigue - especially us sleep deprived mamas.
> I'm also *almost* EBFing my 14 month old, my milk makes up about 95% of his diet, so that doesn't help with the dehydration issue.
> 
> Bottom line, our adrenals need salt, our bodies NEED salt!
> 
> Cutting out caffeine is MAJOR, as is eliminating stress, seriously eliminating it - whatever it is, negative people, high stress job, relationships, whatever, if you want to heal, you need to eliminate it. Rest is very important, we're supposed to be in bed by 10pm at the latest & sleep till 9am if possible (ha!) take any naps you can get. A sleeptime routine is also essential, going to bed & waking at the same exact times each night/morning. (I have yet to perfect this routine!)
> 
> *My doctor says that the thyroid is always affected when one is suffering from adrenal fatigue - even if it doesn't show up in testing.*
> 
> Low blood pressure is one of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue - it's even used as a diagnostic tool, I've always had low blood pressure, low body temp. too. *I went for my appointment this week (5/07) & my blood pressure was 94/50 & that's a HUGE improvement!* It actually rose 10 points after I stood up which is also HUGE since up until now, it hasn't budged when I rose from laying down to standing up - a classic sign of adrenal fatigue.
> 
> One of the diagnostic tools is to have the patient lay down, relax for 5 minutes, while laying down, take the patient's blood pressure. Then have the patient stand up & take the blood pressure reading again, if it fails to rise or drops upon standing, that's a sign that you're adrenals aren't working to their fullest capacity & it should be addressed.
> 
> A couple of fantastic books are Chronic Fatigue Unmasked 2000, by Dr. Poesnecker (the link is for the first edition, there's a newer one available now with the "2000" in the title) & Adrenal Fatigue, the 21st Century Stress Syndrome by J. Wilson. The first one, by Poesnecker, is much more in depth in terms of treatment & how the neuroendocrine system works, which explains *how* adrenal fatigue occurs. Here's Wilson's website.
> 
> Here is my treatment plan: ****before taking any supplements/medication to treat adrenal fatigue, an ASI saliva test is needed to determine the stage of adrenal dysfunction you are in, it's VERY important in deciding which supplements to use.****
> 
> I started out taking 1 tablet of *Mil Adregen* by '******' brand. It contains raw spleen concentrate, raw adrenal concentrate, raw thymus concentrate, citrus bioflavinoids, vitamin c, vitamin B6, vitamin B5 & zinc. I have slowly built up to 3 tablets a day, taken at meals.
> 
> I also started out taking 10mg of bioidentical *pregnenolone* by 'Pure' brand. I am currently taking 30 mg/day all in the morning. The necessary dose depends on how severe your adrenal fatigue. I'm still working up to a higher dose.
> Pregnenolone is the first hormone that our bodies convert from cholesterol. It is at the top of the adrenal hormone cascade & is made into cortisol, DHEA & all of the sex hormones, estrogen, testosterone & progesterone. Pregnenolone usually has zero side effects where bioidentical DHEA supplementation can often have masculine side effects like rage & facial hair growth.
> 
> I take "*Seriphos*" by InterPlexus as needed, a proprietary blend 1000mg of phosphorylated, Serine/Ethanolamine which has a calming affect & helps take the edge off of the anciety.
> 
> Those are the supplements that my doctor gives me, aside from those listed above, I take these (with his approval.):
> 
> B-50 complex by Now brand
> Magnesium citrate (powder) by Now brand
> Selenium 200 mcg by Now brand
> Zinc 50 mg by Solaray
> 
> HTH!


Hello!

I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue about a year ago. I was on Pregnenelone for 2 months before becoming pregnant. I am 8 months pregnant and feeling decent, but really wanting to support my adrenals now and during breastfeeding after baby is born 

I already drink salt water
eat coconut oil
high protein low carb breakfast
minimal sugar and fruit

I have recently started taking Pranin organic Acerola Vitamin C and am wondering if anyone here has taken their wholefoods Vit B complex? 
It is :
Guava
Lemon
Holy Basil 
Spirulina

I am thinking about switching from my current B to this product as food based B's and C's are really important for adrenal health 

thx!


----------



## mokshimama

Hello!

I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue about a year ago. I was on Pregnenelone for 2 months before becoming pregnant. I am 8 months pregnant and feeling decent, but really wanting to support my adrenals now and during breastfeeding after baby is born 

I already drink salt water
eat coconut oil
high protein low carb breakfast
minimal sugar and fruit

I have recently started taking Pranin organic Acerola Vitamin C and am wondering if anyone here has taken their wholefoods Vit B complex? 
It is :
Guava
Lemon
Holy Basil 
Spirulina

I am thinking about switching from my current B to this product as food based B's and C's are really important for adrenal health 

thx!


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## klynn

mokshimama said:


> Hello!
> 
> I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue about a year ago. I was on Pregnenelone for 2 months before becoming pregnant. I am 8 months pregnant and feeling decent, but really wanting to support my adrenals now and during breastfeeding after baby is born
> 
> I already drink salt water
> eat coconut oil
> high protein low carb breakfast
> minimal sugar and fruit
> 
> I have recently started taking Pranin organic Acerola Vitamin C and am wondering if anyone here has taken their wholefoods Vit B complex?
> It is :
> Guava
> Lemon
> Holy Basil
> Spirulina
> 
> I am thinking about switching from my current B to this product as food based B's and C's are really important for adrenal health
> 
> thx!


I agree on the food based C as better for adrenals from what I've seen from other adrenal groups. I am one who has issues w/c after doing a phase of high dosing. Have tried multiple brands and so far can't tolerate. I went w/allergen free & no corn base but no go yet. Everyone is different and if you aren't that far along in adrenal fatigue, maybe just try it? Livestrong had some considerations to take into account on it re interactions w/other drugs, etc. Hope to hear how it works out if you end up trying it.


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## klynn

And curious, your last report was in 2007. How did things go? Was what you reported worth following w/Dr. P? I'm still struggling to do much physical activity aside from work. Even a long walk drains me a bit.


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## royal

*Adrenal Fatigue Treatment While Breast Feeding*

Hi, I was searching the web on the safety of treatments for adrenal fatigue for the baby that is fed breast milk by the mother under treatment. I noticed that some moms here have received oral and hormonal treatments while they had been almost exclusively breast feeding their baby.

Can someone explain their understanding of the safety of these treatments for the baby? I'm in desperate need to start my treatment but only the fact that i'm almost exclusively breast feeding my 14 months old baby is holding me from it. Thank you so much!


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