# Growth Hormone Deficiency in kids?



## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Now I'm 4'11 and DH is 5'6, so we weren't expecting any tall kids, but both kids are VERY short, DD particularly, who at age 5 is quite a bit shorter than even I was at her age. She is a good 3 inches shorter than the next shortest kid in her class, and also 3 inches below 3% on the charts; she is shorter than an average 3yr old: http://www.magicfoundation.org/www/docs/7/growth-charts

DS is 3.5 and is 1/2 inch below 3% on the boys' chart for his age, and I am concerned that they are not growing much, and maybe there is a bigger problem. My dad likes to measure DD's height when we go to their house, so it seems she is growing, but very slowly. DS doesn't like to be measured, so we don't have much of a chart for him. They both do outgrow clothing and shoes, but very slowly.

Both kids are healthy, active and 'normal' developmentally, and were average size at birth, just tapered off significantly at around 12 months.

We were referred to a ped for DD at around 18 months who did a round of tests and checked her ht/wt for a couple of years and declared her healthy and just short. We also saw a nutritionist who said she eats more than most kids who come through the office and her diet was not the reason she was short.

Because of this, I put it on the back burner and didn't even get DS tested as I assumed we would get the same results, until today - I was reading about a kid who was slightly younger than my DD and a bit shorter who was going to be tested for Growth Hormone Deficiency.

I checked out this page: http://www.hgfound.org/pub_growth.html and got some info on it, and it appears if they find GH deficiency, they give daily injections to remedy the problem.

Any experience with this, and does anyone know of side effects that come with growth hormone therapy? Thanks.


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## vancouverlori (Sep 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alison's Mom* 
I was reading about a kid who was slightly younger than my DD and a bit shorter who was going to be tested for Growth Hormone Deficiency.

I checked out this page: http://www.hgfound.org/pub_growth.html and got some info on it, and it appears if they find GH deficiency, they give daily injections to remedy the problem.

Any experience with this, and does anyone know of side effects that come with growth hormone therapy? Thanks.

I'd say it's worth looking into. Growth Hormone has other health effects besides just growth. I don't have any personal experience with it, but I know it's now being touted as the "elixir of youth" with all kinds of health claims. I personally and professionally (I'm a pharmacist) disagree with *that* sort of use, but I know it's generally very well tolerated - few side effects in therapeutic doses. Injections are inconvenient, but kids who need them usually get used to them, and it is subcutaneous, which isn't too bad. (A friend of mine has a transgendered son and she has to give him weekly hormone shots intramuscularly.) The worst side effect with growth hormone is the one on the family budget. I believe they're a provincial benefit for children - so make sure you have your BC Fair Pharmacare status all updated with your most recent income info. (Less of an issue if you have extended medical, but still should be done.) The doctor may have to send in a "special authority" form, but any doctor dealing with this should know all about that.

This is all very general, but I thought it would be helpful to give you the big picture. I like to use Drugs.com for drug info when I'm not at work. Their patient info for somatostatin (generic drug name for growth hormone) is pretty standard. Don't be alarmed by the "call a doctor immediately if..." section. It's meant to tell you what the extremely rare but very serious side effects are, so you can get medical attention right away. Most of the side effects are related to the injections themselves, and others don't apply to therapeutic use in children.

I would also consider grandparents heights, assuming they didn't go through famines or major illnesses as children. My inlaws lived through famine in China, and they're 5' and 4'10". My BIL's are both decent height for asian guys - 5'10" ish. But DH had leukemia as a kid and was on steroids for many years, so that's why he's only 5'4". So I'm expecting Calvin to be a bit taller than both of us - my dad is also 6'. And he seems to be headed that way.

Short's ok, though. I like to tell my husband that he's "travel-sized for convenience" as Mushu from Mulan put it.


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## sbgrace (Sep 22, 2004)

My son has always been tiny and I don't know how genetically. No one has ever wanted to test his hormone levels because he is proportional (3 to 5% weight, height, head). I plan to ask again soon.


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## kjbrown92 (Dec 13, 2007)

How is their sleep? growth hormone is released when sleeping so if they don't sleep well, then they may not grow well.


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Thanks everyone.

Lori - thanks for all the info. I feel a bit better about potentially using GH therapy now that you, as a crunchy pharmacist says it's not bad in terms of side effects.

Grandparents - hmmm, my parents are short: 5'0 and 5'4, and DH's parents were 5'0 and about 5'9. There are reasonably average height people on both sides of the family - 5'10 for uncles and 5'5 for aunts, etc, just not my parents, who are both the shortest in their families.

Sleep - there were definitely times when both kids didn't get enough sleep, most recently because DS would nap, and then not be tired until 11pm. Because of that, we have cut the nap, and now they both sleep from 8.30-7.30-ish, so at least 10 hours and generally closer to 11 hours. Their previous lack of sleep may have had something to do with it as well. DD now sleeps through the night, and DS wakes up once to call me into his bed, or crawl into ours. I doubt that could be disrupting his sleep too badly?

I've read there are also thyroid issues that could cause lack of height, and also just heard that some celiacs don't show any symptoms except short stature/thin, so I guess there are those factors to look into further.

I know someone whose DD is seeing a ped endocrinologist for another reason and said it was next to impossible to get the referral.

Both kids are thin but also proportional - the first thing the ped said was that he didn't suspect dwarfism or anything like that, because you can usually tell just by looking at a kid.


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## Jamie1989 (Mar 5, 2010)

The key to normal growth and health for a child is how much they grow in 12 months. For details go to a parent support group called the MAGIC Foundation. Excellent info and details. www.magicfoundation.org


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Deficiencies in fat soluble vitamins can also be a cause.

Since you are in Canada the first suspect is vitamin D deficiency. You cannot make vitamin D from the sun most of the year. I would get a blood test and start supplementing see this website for info www.vitamindcouncil.org

Vitamin D is actually not a vitamin but a hormone!

Growth is not just genetically driven. See "WAPF fed" link in my sig. for more on fat soluble vitamins, tons of info at that site.

Every single one of my IRL Weston Price foundation friends noticed a huge jump in their child's growth the year they started supplementing high vitamin cod liver oil and high vitamin butter oil for the fat soluble vitamins and bone broths and/or raw milk for the minerals.

You need vitamin A to help vitamin D work so you can do what we do (live in Massachusetts so similar vitamin D issues) and do high vitamin CLO plus extra vitamin D and the butter oil.

Does she eat soy? Very bad news for growth b/c it has enzyme inhibitors which binds to minerals and prevents body from utilizing them, and also estrogen hormones.

Do your dairy products have artificial growth hormones added?


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Thanks Jamie - yes I'll check out the magic site more later.

JaneS - very interesting stuff - thank you!

No dairy for us as DS is allergic, although DD could have some of the WAPF stuff I guess. We do have a lot of soy (due to dairy allergy) which does have vit D added to it just like regular milk does.

What's the best way to get Vit D in a northern climate? What do you do in the summer - do you use sunscreen or expose them without sunscreen in the morning and evening?

Which CLO do you use, and how to you get your DS to take it? There was talk on the Vancouver thread on CLO and I'll look back to see what type people were using, but was it Blue Ice or something like that?

It would be hard for us to avoid soy completely, as the kids have multiple food allergies between them - anaphylactic risk for peanuts/tree nuts, plus allergies to egg and dairy, so if we cut out all soy (we currently use soy milk, plus eat a reasonable amount of tofu), we'd be hard pressed to find meat alternatives. I guess there is rice milk, although the last time I tried, they didn't like the taste, and I couldn't say I really blamed them









I like the bone broth idea - I could definitely do that. Just get organic marrow bones and boil to make soup?

Thanks - I had thought fleetingly about a Vit deficiency, but thought the blood test done by the ped would have picked up on that.


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## siennaflower (Aug 31, 2004)

I am having dd tested soon. She just turned 7 and is 43", which is an inch below the 3rd percentile. She eats great and sleeps well, she's just short. I'm 5'2" myself, but I was actually taller than my peers until puberty. And dh is 6'1". I'm also having her tested for Celiacs and thyroid issues. I feel bad for her because she's being teased about her size at school


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## out#edbyJs (Jan 27, 2010)

My dd will be 7 in a month and is also 43".
Last June at her yearly check-up we did a bone age scan and found out that her bones were that of 3 year old.
So we were referred to an endo and had an appointment in Nov. He found that she took after my dh (5'4") and myself (5'7" and a very late bloomer) and that those two things together were causing her to be so small at this age.
He assured us that because of her delayed bone age she would grow longer than other kids and eventually catch up. But we shouldn't expect anything much over 5'.

He ran some blood tests just to verify what he said and we found out that her thyroid levels are abnormal and suggest possible hypothyroidism. Unfortunately her numbers are so close to borderline he is unsure whether or not to treat her for it. We are still waiting to hear back from him as to our next move.

I would suggest doing a bone age x-ray first, it's the simplest way to see if what is going on, on the inside matches the outside.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Once again joining a club no one wants to join.

But thanks for the information ladies. Hoping it can help my small fry.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alison's Mom* 
Thanks Jamie - yes I'll check out the magic site more later.

JaneS - very interesting stuff - thank you!

No dairy for us as DS is allergic, although DD could have some of the WAPF stuff I guess. We do have a lot of soy (due to dairy allergy) which does have vit D added to it just like regular milk does.

What's the best way to get Vit D in a northern climate? What do you do in the summer - do you use sunscreen or expose them without sunscreen in the morning and evening?

Which CLO do you use, and how to you get your DS to take it? There was talk on the Vancouver thread on CLO and I'll look back to see what type people were using, but was it Blue Ice or something like that?

It would be hard for us to avoid soy completely, as the kids have multiple food allergies between them - anaphylactic risk for peanuts/tree nuts, plus allergies to egg and dairy, so if we cut out all soy (we currently use soy milk, plus eat a reasonable amount of tofu), we'd be hard pressed to find meat alternatives. I guess there is rice milk, although the last time I tried, they didn't like the taste, and I couldn't say I really blamed them









I like the bone broth idea - I could definitely do that. Just get organic marrow bones and boil to make soup?

Thanks - I had thought fleetingly about a Vit deficiency, but thought the blood test done by the ped would have picked up on that.

We do cod liver oil from Radiant Life b/c it doesn't have any flavors or rosemary extract but Blue Ice is the other recommended brand as well. DS has been taking CLO since he was 8 mos old so he just slurps it easily but maybe you could try putting in a shot of orange juice or getting a flavored one. There are also Blue Ice Gummies for kids but see recs for amounts, you might have to do several of them.

Although personally in your situation I would be following the Weston Price protocol of 1/4-1/2 tsp. of high vitamin cod liver oil and a form of K2 three times per day (depending on type whether it is short acting MK-4 or long acting MK-7) with every meal to correct mineral deficiencies.

And we also do extra vitamin D capsules either from Carlson's, NOW or Vital Choice. I use sunscreen only if we are going to spend the day at the beach, not if we are outside on a day to day basis. And both DS and I tested low in the beginning of the fall. Most people need to supplement. The amount in regular milk is paltry. If you are in Canada and not giving supplements way over the standard rec daily amount (which is ridiculous according to vitamin D researchers), you are deficient.

The type of vitamin D added to soy milk is D2 which is not utilized in the body as well as the natural form D3 from cod liver oil or lanolin pills. D2 also has harmful side effects. The amount is also ridculously low. I would check any tests done against the advice of the Vitamin D Council on testing. It also depends on when you get the test done. Vitamin D is used up very quickly when there is no sun.

I sincerely recommend reading this _Mothering_ article about soy and switching to rice milk (not a good source of nutrients tho) and coconut milk and frequent bone broths for minerals:

Whole Soy Story: The Dark Side of America's Favorite Health Food
http://www.mothering.com/food/whole-soy-story

See article on 24 hr. bone broths:
www.westonaprice.org/Broth-is-Beautiful.html

I would treat bone broths like milk and make it a staple of your diet several times a day. Chicken is certainly the most versatile. Use it to make grains, stew, soups, potatoes, chilis, etc. Healthy diets do not have to include milk, but healthy traditional diets which were dairy free always included bone broth several times a day like the Japanese their miso soup broths for example.

I think based on the diet you told me, your kids are indeed deficient in minerals b/c they are not consuming enough minerals in fortified imitation milk products and its also coming in products like soy with anti nutrients which inhibit mineral absorption.

Standard blood testing is not effective to determine deficiencies, as the blood will keep its standard ranges at all costs... meaning if it will take minerals from the bones and teeth to keep the levels consistent to prevent seizures. It frustrates me to no end that mainstream doctors do not know this!

It is much much harder with allergy kids. I know b/c we were dairy and egg free for a while too, and DS has nut and seed and wheat allergies. But those are the kids that need the fat soluble vitamins the most. If I were you, I would get into other natural sources of vitamin K2 in your situation and pronto. Fish eggs like salmon roe are the best source of K2 but I know hard for kids to take! My DS loves salmon roe with cream cheese on mini pancakes but he is weird.









There are K2 pills from Jarrow made from natto I think? It is a fermented soy in small amounts, so natto is okay. There is also a Thorne K2 product that are drops which is likely allergy free. Unlike butter oil , these might not be dosed 3x day.

Vitamins A and D without K2 as well are at best not effective, and at worst, dangerous to the body.

Quote:

While vitamins A and D contribute to growth by stimulating growth factors and promoting the absorption of minerals, vitamin K2 makes its own essential contribution to growth by preventing the premature calcification of the cartilaginous growth zones of bones.38

Vitamin K2 may also be required for the safety of vitamin D. The anorexia, lethargy, growth retardation, bone resorption, and soft tissue calcification that animals fed toxic doses of vitamin D exhibit bear a striking resemblance to the symptoms of deficiencies in vitamin K or vitamin K-dependent proteins.
http://www.westonaprice.org/On-the-T...ly-Solved.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

And just to be clear, once you start reading about Weston Price's findings, you will better understand where I'm coming from. Standard medical and dietary advice ignores the fact that without sufficient amounts of the fat soluble vitamin trio of vitamin A, D and K, any minerals in your diet simply will not get to where they are supposed to go: the bones.

And also retinyl palmitate chemical form of vitamin A is useless at best and toxic at worst. Beta carotene in carrots, sweet potatoes, etc, is not converted 1:1 to vitamin A, retinol. So a carrot, if you are converting optimally, which people with damaged guts, older people AND children will not even give an adult 1/5th of the standard 5000 IU RDA of vitamin A. Which is about 4x less than was in traditional healthy diets too, so again, a paltry low number and typical modern diets don't even meet that.

And that concludes my fat soluble vitamin soapbox for the day!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *out#edbyJs* 
Unfortunately her numbers are so close to borderline he is unsure whether or not to treat her for it.

what are they using for normal values b/c TSH normal values have changed in recent years.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alison's Mom* 

What's the best way to get Vit D in a northern climate? What do you do in the summer - do you use sunscreen or expose them without sunscreen in the morning and evening?

I can't resist, one more thing... no you need in the middle of the day to make D especially so far from equator. Otherwise the sun's rays are not at right angle to even make any D, and only a few months out of the year when sun is close to you as I said before. Probably only 4 months in summer for you. There is a calculator online to show this that vitamin D researchers have come up with but I have to run so I cannot search around for it forgive me...


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

If you're going to do bloodwork, I'd ask about zinc. I think you need RBC zinc, some measures of zinc, like using whole blood, aren't a good measure, they tend to be actively controlled (so you need to be severely deficient to see a dip). Zinc deficiency commonly causes low growth--not that most kids who are short/small have low zinc, but in areas with very low zinc intake, short stature is a common result and when zinc is supplemented, growth increases.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

This is all great advice. Do you have any thoughts on what to do about a toddler (2.5) who doesn't eat a lot? I mean a miniscule amount. Won't drink bone broth. Has stopped "slurping clo from the spoon". We tried the radiant life gummies (did the fclo ones) and they were soundly rejected. I can't even get him to take probiotics now, which he also used to eat off the spoon.

The only thing I'm able to get him to take is a sublingual b & his cell salts.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
We do cod liver oil from Radiant Life b/c it doesn't have any flavors or rosemary extract but Blue Ice is the other recommended brand as well. DS has been taking CLO since he was 8 mos old so he just slurps it easily but maybe you could try putting in a shot of orange juice or getting a flavored one. There are also Blue Ice Gummies for kids but see recs for amounts, you might have to do several of them.

Although personally in your situation I would be following the Weston Price protocol of 1/4-1/2 tsp. of high vitamin cod liver oil and a form of K2 three times per day (depending on type whether it is short acting MK-4 or long acting MK-7) with every meal to correct mineral deficiencies.

And we also do extra vitamin D capsules either from Carlson's, NOW or Vital Choice. I use sunscreen only if we are going to spend the day at the beach, not if we are outside on a day to day basis. And both DS and I tested low in the beginning of the fall. Most people need to supplement. The amount in regular milk is paltry. If you are in Canada and not giving supplements way over the standard rec daily amount (which is ridiculous according to vitamin D researchers), you are deficient.

The type of vitamin D added to soy milk is D2 which is not utilized in the body as well as the natural form D3 from cod liver oil or lanolin pills. D2 also has harmful side effects. The amount is also ridculously low. I would check any tests done against the advice of the Vitamin D Council on testing. It also depends on when you get the test done. Vitamin D is used up very quickly when there is no sun.

I sincerely recommend reading this _Mothering_ article about soy and switching to rice milk (not a good source of nutrients tho) and coconut milk and frequent bone broths for minerals:

Whole Soy Story: The Dark Side of America's Favorite Health Food
http://www.mothering.com/food/whole-soy-story

See article on 24 hr. bone broths:
www.westonaprice.org/Broth-is-Beautiful.html

I would treat bone broths like milk and make it a staple of your diet several times a day. Chicken is certainly the most versatile. Use it to make grains, stew, soups, potatoes, chilis, etc. Healthy diets do not have to include milk, but healthy traditional diets which were dairy free always included bone broth several times a day like the Japanese their miso soup broths for example.

I think based on the diet you told me, your kids are indeed deficient in minerals b/c they are not consuming enough minerals in fortified imitation milk products and its also coming in products like soy with anti nutrients which inhibit mineral absorption.

Standard blood testing is not effective to determine deficiencies, as the blood will keep its standard ranges at all costs... meaning if it will take minerals from the bones and teeth to keep the levels consistent to prevent seizures. It frustrates me to no end that mainstream doctors do not know this!

It is much much harder with allergy kids. I know b/c we were dairy and egg free for a while too, and DS has nut and seed and wheat allergies. But those are the kids that need the fat soluble vitamins the most. If I were you, I would get into other natural sources of vitamin K2 in your situation and pronto. Fish eggs like salmon roe are the best source of K2 but I know hard for kids to take! My DS loves salmon roe with cream cheese on mini pancakes but he is weird.









There are K2 pills from Jarrow made from natto I think? It is a fermented soy in small amounts, so natto is okay. There is also a Thorne K2 product that are drops which is likely allergy free. Unlike butter oil , these might not be dosed 3x day.

Vitamins A and D without K2 as well are at best not effective, and at worst, dangerous to the body.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
And just to be clear, once you start reading about Weston Price's findings, you will better understand where I'm coming from. Standard medical and dietary advice ignores the fact that without sufficient amounts of the fat soluble vitamin trio of vitamin A, D and K, any minerals in your diet simply will not get to where they are supposed to go: the bones.

And also retinyl palmitate chemical form of vitamin A is useless at best and toxic at worst. Beta carotene in carrots, sweet potatoes, etc, is not converted 1:1 to vitamin A, retinol. So a carrot, if you are converting optimally, which people with damaged guts, older people AND children will not even give an adult 1/5th of the standard 5000 IU RDA of vitamin A. Which is about 4x less than was in traditional healthy diets too, so again, a paltry low number and typical modern diets don't even meet that.

And that concludes my fat soluble vitamin soapbox for the day!









Just to followup on this, so you are saying that unless you are supplementig k2 you shouldn't be supplementing A & D b/c they are all co-factors?


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## out#edbyJs (Jan 27, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
what are they using for normal values b/c TSH normal values have changed in recent years.

The lab has the limit for tsh at 4.3

Her numbers:
In Nov. 4.8
In Jan. 3.8
In Feb. 4.5

I told the doc I was aware of the suggested lowered rate and I was wondering his thoughts on it. He said it was responsible to take that into account but that those numbers are based on adults and the only way to tell if it would help her is to do a 6 month trial of the meds to see if her growth improved.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
And just to be clear, once you start reading about Weston Price's findings, you will better understand where I'm coming from. Standard medical and dietary advice ignores the fact that without sufficient amounts of the fat soluble vitamin trio of vitamin A, D and K, any minerals in your diet simply will not get to where they are supposed to go: the bones.

And also retinyl palmitate chemical form of vitamin A is useless at best and toxic at worst. Beta carotene in carrots, sweet potatoes, etc, is not converted 1:1 to vitamin A, retinol. So a carrot, if you are converting optimally, which people with damaged guts, older people AND children will not even give an adult 1/5th of the standard 5000 IU RDA of vitamin A. Which is about 4x less than was in traditional healthy diets too, so again, a paltry low number and typical modern diets don't even meet that.

And that concludes my fat soluble vitamin soapbox for the day!









So is there an A supplement that is good to use other than high vitamin clo?


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## Asiago (Jul 1, 2009)

My brother was tested when young and his growth plates radiographed. I can't give specifics as my mother doesn't recall all if the details. However, the doctors wanted to start him on growth hormone but my mother refused. He was a late bloomer I suppose because despite his small stature as a fourteen year old, he grew into a man of 5'10.

I am reading 'Vital Touch' by Sharon Heller and it's fascinating. She has a bit on growth hormone in the chapter titled 'Newborn Harmony'. Here are various excerpts:

Quote:

Growth hormone emanates from the hypothalamus (located in the limbic system and part of our old mammalian brain). Touch sends a message to the pituitary gland to release growth hormone. Conversely, separation and touch deprivation block it. Saul Schanberg of Duke University discovered that in infant rats it only takes 45 minutes of separation before growth hormones start to suppress.

........Preemies , isolated most of the day in an incubator, traditionally receive little touch. Would stroking also make them grow more quickly? Tiffany Field, a developmental psychologist and colleague Frank Scafidi had a hunch it would.....For three fifteen minute periods a day for ten consecutive days, they massaged and stretched the limbs of preterm infants. The findings? A whopping 47 percent increase in weight.

....In India, babies are massaged daily, from one to six months of age. In Malpe, India, where babies start out underweight by 500 grams, as compared to American newborns, 65 doubled their birth weight by three months. In the United States, where few babies are routinely massaged, babies tend to double their weight much later, at five months.

.....Massage affects the immune system as well. Premature infants gently stroked had higher levels of secretory immunoglobulin A (SIgA), which protects against respiratory tract infections, than those not stroked.
I am not implying that all you need to do is touch more or do massage but it really was a facinating bit of info and I just wanted to share.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

I'm watching this thread closely. It was actually painful to click on the growth chart for me to check my DD1's height. She is a HORRIBLE sleeper - always has been. I'm convinced it has to do with sleep. I think in her entire 6 years of life, she's STTN a handful of times (of course now, instead of waking up crying for nursing, it's just waking up from nightmares or to come on our bed).

Has melatonin ever been used for kids with growth issues?

I'm 5'5" and DH is 5'9", so not huge by any means. DH's niece is 7 and definately below the growth chart for her height (she's smaller than my DD1, who apparently is just below 25% - which I find hard to believe as she's definately the smallest in her Gr 1 class, and smaller than even some Kindergardeners).

Thank you for the great research and info. Subbing.


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## vancouverlori (Sep 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *out#edbyJs* 
He ran some blood tests just to verify what he said and we found out that her thyroid levels are abnormal and suggest possible hypothyroidism. Unfortunately her numbers are so close to borderline he is unsure whether or not to treat her for it. We are still waiting to hear back from him as to our next move.

Putting my pharmacist hat back on...
I'd say, if they're only testing TSH and it's borderline, they would be wise to do a "Free T3" test to actually look at how much of the active form (T3) she has.
more T4 or T3 = lower TSH (good)
less T4 or T3 = higher TSH (likely hypothyroid)
The inactive form contributes to the feedback cycle to a greater degree than the active form does, so in some people who don't convert well from the inactive to the active (which can be related to vitamin deficiencies and hormone imbalances too), they might have normal or near-normal TSH, but still have low *active* thyroid hormone and therefore be functionally hypothyroid. And if TSH is near normal but free T3 is low, she would likely need the active form (Cytomel is one brand, I think there may be others), or even a combination (usually in the form of dessicated porcine thyroid gland, like Armour Thyroid) which is a little trickier to dose because it only comes in certain strengths. A good compounding pharmacy can make capsules of custom strength if needed.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Fish eggs like salmon roe are the best source of K2 but I know hard for kids to take! My DS loves salmon roe with cream cheese on mini pancakes but he is weird.









Actually, I like to think that roe is a perfect kid-food: it's fluorescent orange, salty, and it goes POP in your mouth! My DS is very fond of masago... the little tiny roe they put on some sushi rolls. I'm glad to hear that this is a good source of such stuff for my extensively-food-allergic kid.

Thanks so much for all your info... my DS doesn't have growth issues, but his limited diet is something I worry about... knowing about bone broths makes me more likely to make broths homemade even though he can tolerate the Tetra-pak low-sodium stuff. It's such a PITA to make that I had thought I'd just give up on it... now I won't!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
... now, instead of waking up crying for nursing, it's just waking up from nightmares ...

Has melatonin ever been used for kids with growth issues?

I'd say melatonin is likely a good idea. They use it all the time at the children's hospital here, not specifically for growth issues, but because the kids have trouble sleeping in such an environment. And if your DD is getting nightmares, I'm guessing you probably have some sort of night-light? (Don't feel bad - my DS has one too, plus sometimes Daddy's LED MagLite flashlight, which is almost as bright as day!!!) Which could potentially contribute to lower melatonin levels, and maybe that's all part of a whole vicious cycle.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Hmmm...we have a nightlight in the hallway, and there's a clock radio with a display in her room...interesting. I might close their door at night to block light (their door is next to the stairwell, hence the nightlight). Thanks for the tip!

Are there any studies about longterm use of melatonin in kids, and for what dosage?


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## babynatasha (Sep 25, 2008)

Subbing: There is a lot of info here that I think can help us with our DD 2.5 who is way below the 3% for both height and weight. She has been waking everynight too for the last couple of months. She is developmental on target though, just her height and weight is low. Saw this post and can't process it all before bed, so I wanted to sub to read tomorrow!


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

WOW! So much info after nobody posting on this thread the first few days.

Thank you so much to everyone who has weighed in. It's a lot to read, and go through, and it will be challenging to convince DH of any of this. He's a major follower of western medicine, and generally only believes things if told to him by an MD of some sort







I think I'll have a challenge on my hands as if the kids rebuke CLO type supplements and/or broth, etc, he will just let them eat anything, and call me crazy.

It is tricky with the dairy allergy, but thankfully they will generally eat meat, especially DS. I'm thinking that the easiest thing would be to move in with my mom for a year - who is a firm believer in broth, fish, CLO, veggies, fruits, etc!

I think I'll cut way down on the soy, including trying to switch to rice milk/coconut milk. They actually drink coconut water straight out of young coconuts that my mom brings over, which is apparently really good for you. If that were available all the time, they would go for it, but it's a bit of a pain to have to hack through all the outer layer to get to the part you can poke and hole through and drain. I can probably convince them to drink mostly water and some juice, but would have to do rice or coconut milk to put onto oatmeal, etc or cereal. I will cut down on the tofu intake, but it is something they both love.

I can do the broth, but will have to hide it in something. They always eat the potatoes, etc out of soups and not the actual liquid, but I could cook rice with it. Do you use your slow cooker do you can leave it on while you're out?

I will check out the D, A and K supplements and hope they are available and tolerable to the kids.

JaneS - wow, no suncreen in the middle of the day in the summer? I assume you haven't had problems with sun burns? Is that all fear mongering, or ?? I do know people who burn even in our temperate, far from the equator climate, including my DH, who is 'white' (I'm asian Canadian). I'm not a big sunscreen wearer myself, and just tend to avoid 11-3pm and stay in the shade, but I do have to remind myself that my kids are 1/2 white and will therefore burn more easily than I will. DH"s dad had skin cancer from constantly being out in the yard shirtless in the summer in Toronto, but I think that was pretty extreme.

DS reacted to a piece of salmon with miso on it the last time I tried, and I'm really not sure what happened, as he eats salmon a lot. I've been avoiding miso since then. Nato is a joke around here, as SIL is Japanese and DH and his brother make fun of her for eating it. I tried a piece and found it tolerable, but I'll eat pretty much anything, and the kids are opposite.

It makes me wonder, though, with so many people around here on a standard N American diet, that not all the kids are super short? They're all having grocery store milk, take mainstream supplements, few veggies, etc?


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

I knew I would forget at least a few things. . .

Interesting about the infant massage - will look more into that. My kids are touched and hugged a lot, but not actual massage ever.

And I'll look into salmon roe!! DS especially, might get a huge kick out of that!


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alison's Mom* 
JaneS - wow, no suncreen in the middle of the day in the summer? I assume you haven't had problems with sun burns? Is that all fear mongering, or ?? I do know people who burn even in our temperate, far from the equator climate, including my DH, who is 'white' (I'm asian Canadian). I'm not a big sunscreen wearer myself, and just tend to avoid 11-3pm and stay in the shade, but I do have to remind myself that my kids are 1/2 white and will therefore burn more easily than I will. DH"s dad had skin cancer from constantly being out in the yard shirtless in the summer in Toronto, but I think that was pretty extreme.

There are studies on omega-3 supplementation and it increasing the amount of time it takes to burn in the sun. The amount of time it take me (white, living in Texas) increased quite a bit last year after I changed the types of fats we eat--a lot more saturated fat now, a lot less fats high in omega -6s (nuts, seeds, legumes, safflower/corn/soy type oils, conventional eggs are high in omega-6s).

I also use a supplement for myself and the kids, testing is helpful to know where you're starting from.

It makes me wonder, though, with so many people around here on a standard N American diet, that not all the kids are super short? They're all having grocery store milk, take mainstream supplements, few veggies, etc?

IME, the health problems we are prone to is indicative of the our basic susceptibilities combined with environmental/life stresses we've had. I mentioned zinc earlier. My kids have been low on zinc, since conception since *I'm* low, but while they've had other symptoms, growth has not been affected. Something about how their bodies work means that even being quite zinc deficient, other aspects of their health are affected first, and I guess it would've had to get a lot worse before their growth was impaired.


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## ~bookcase~ (Apr 10, 2007)

subbing. my dd weighs 14lbs10oz at 15 months (corrected)
she's petite


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## half-pint (Oct 27, 2007)

I live in Vancouver and my son has been on GH for 2 years. He is 3.5. He is prescribed GH due to Prader-Willi Syndrome so obviously that is not the case for your child but I will add my personal experience.

As you already know, you will need a referral to the endo clinic at Children's. There is at least a 6 month waiting list to see one. The endos here are quite reluctant to give GH. They would start with a GH deficiency test but generally your child must have fallen off the growth chart for some time before they will entertain that idea (esp. if the situation is simply short stature for no known reason). I get the feeling that GH for short stature is more common in the states than it is here in Canada. IF your child is proven to be GH deficient then BC Medical will pay from what I understand. Or perhaps your extended health will, but they will be kicking and screaming as it is very $$$$. In our case, the cost is around $900 a month and at the highest dose (as he gets older, he needs more) it will be around 30k per year. But the dosage for Prader-Willi is fairly high from my understanding.

The reason it is seen as a "fountain of youth" is because GH builds lean muscles mass. As you age, you produce less GH and your muscle mass declines. This is a reason why it is so popular with athletes and body builders. I believe it is undetectable in a drug test since your body naturally produces it.

We do a nightly injection and although it doesnt hurt very much his tolerance for it is declining. I have to hold him firmly and when he struggles, it hurts more and is harder to do. I hope this gets easier as time goes on, but I just want to say that compliance with the injections can be an issue.

The side effects are fairly minimal and uncommon from what I hear. With close monitoring from doctors I think most tolerate it well. In our case, it helped tremendously in the area of growth and low muscle tone.

My son also takes synthroid at the lowest dose due to hypothyroidism.


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Thanks Tanya, for the insights - makes sense!

half-pint - great to have a local's view on the system. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I'm glad to hear that it is helping your son!

I talked to DH about it last night, and so far so good - he's on board. I will be purchasing some Blue Ice CLO, and have told the kids 'no more soy milk'. DS has had a couple of servings of 'vanilla rice milk' tonight and like it. I will not be too picky about small amounts of soy lecithin in foods, and will cut down the tofu intake to maybe once a month. I went to my butcher and they gave me some mostly grass fed, all natural local beef bones (and for free!), so they are in a pot now, simmering away.

I'm really hoping that this is the cause and while I don't expect them to be even average height, as DH and I certainly aren't, if they catch up to 3 or 5%and stay with that curve, I'll be happy!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm so jealous on the bones, that's awesome! I wouldn't worry about soy lecithin either, I believe that is hormone free. Make sure you get a regular daily source of K2 as well.

And yes re: no sunscreen in middle of day! Now we do use hats and shirts but believe me I'm as surprised as you as we are very fair skinned. As Tanya said, apparently eating the standard American diet of high omega 6 fatty acids vs. eating traditionally balanced omega 6 and 3's are a factor. I used to be sunscreen queen and it has noticably changed.

Re: why are there tall kids on a standard American Diet?

Low vitamin A could also be a factor:

Quote:

One aspect of vitamin A that deserves more emphasis is its role in protein utilization. Kwashiorkor is as much a disease of vitamin-A deficiency, leading to impaired protein absorption, as it is a result of absence of protein in the diet. High-protein, lowfat diets are especially dangerous because protein consumption rapidly depletes vitamin-A stores. Children brought up on high-protein, lowfat diets often experience rapid growth. The results-tall, myopic, lanky individuals with crowded teeth, and poor bone structure, a kind of Ichabod Crane syndrome-are a fixture in America.
http://www.westonaprice.org/Vitamin-A-Saga.html
I see a lot of adults who are tall with poor palate width, weak chins and crowded teeth. The body obviously has not gotten enough nutrients to support its genetic potential.


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## isaoma (Dec 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Although personally in your situation I would be following the Weston Price protocol of 1/4-1/2 tsp. of high vitamin cod liver oil and a form of K2 three times per day (depending on type whether it is short acting MK-4 or long acting MK-7) with every meal to correct mineral deficiencies.

JaneS: Would you suggest additional K2 supplementation if you are taking fermented cod liver oil (I believe it has higher amounts of K2 than regular CLO). I ask because we stopped supplementing K2 when we went on fermented CLO, now I wonder if that was a mistake.

OP: I'll find the reference tomorrow, but I read somewhere that gluten intolerance and celiacs can be responsible for slow/no growth. Sometimes slow growth is the only symptom. If I remember the study correctly it said something like 25% of the children seen for no/slow growth actually started growing when gluten was removed from their diets. My dn stopped growing when he was 3 for several years, so I did a little internet research on the subject.


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## isaoma (Dec 6, 2006)

Not the actual study I read before, but here are a few abstracts:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/j021644p5l173514/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15273508


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Re: why are there tall kids on a standard American Diet?

Low vitamin A could also be a factor:

I see a lot of adults who are tall with poor palate width, weak chins and crowded teeth. The body obviously has not gotten enough nutrients to support its genetic potential.

This is getting off-topic, but it's interesting that when I changed our diet (cut out gluten and dairy, added a lot more saturated fat, started the homemade stock and such, and somewhere in there started getting more regular with the CLO), both my kids got %-wise shorter. They were 1.5yo and just shy of 4yo--so quite the age gap, but they lost their height-weight gap at the same time (used to be higher % for height than weight, now they both match).

It makes me wonder about how common subclinical health issues really may be--not full-blown whatever, but more subtle stuff that's off.


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Thanks for the info JaneS and the links, isaoma. Yes, I can't remember if I mentioned Celiacs as a possibility to look into, but yes, since I'd read some people don't have any real symptoms, it has been on my radar. I've booked an appointment with our GP so we can go back to the ped to review what he actually tested for. I know he did cystic fibrosis, but apart from that, with a blood test and stool test, I'm not sure what he actually tested DD for. I'll see if he checked for Celiac and growth hormone. I'm tempted to use this home test for Celiac: http://celiachometest.com/


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *isaoma* 
JaneS: Would you suggest additional K2 supplementation if you are taking fermented cod liver oil (I believe it has higher amounts of K2 than regular CLO). I ask because we stopped supplementing K2 when we went on fermented CLO, now I wonder if that was a mistake.

Depends, is it elsewhere in your diet?


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

So, we got in to see the ped this afternoon and he said my DD is still below 0%, but growing steadily. He still suspects there is nothing wrong, and she is just short due to genetics. Previously he had tested for CF, plus kidney function, proteins, iron, thyroid and a few others that I can't remember now, but is sending us to the lab for a Celiac test, other blood work including thyroid, a bone age xray and referring us to a ped endocrinologist who will review the chart and decide if a growth hormone test is warranted. He was also great with the kids - I love this Dr.

We have been doing Carlson's CLO, plus a multivitamin with A and D, no more soy milk, and some bone broths. I was at the grassfed beef store today and they happened to have a special on green pastures fermented CLO gummy fish, and I was about to buy a jar, but asked if I could try one first. I ate half (I thought it was not great, but OK) and gave half to DS (the more adventurous eater of my two) who promptly spit it out saying 'it tastes yucky', so I will be continuing with my current CLO, which they tolerate if washed down with orange juice.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Those gummy fish are nasty. Wish I could return the ones I bought.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Those tests sound good, I was just going to come back here and mention thyroid function in fact.

A multivitamin with vit. A is probably in chemical palmitate form and not natural retinol? Palmitate is useless at best and toxic at worst.

Vitamin D to keep blood levels up in Canada will need to be *many* times more than the RDA that's in a multi ... best to get tested and do high doses www.vitamindcouncil.org


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

And it probably would be worth mentioning that if only TSH is checked for thyroid function it might not be sufficient... TSH is a pituitary hormone only. If there is problems with the pituitary, TSH will be low. Testing it only will make the doctor say, "What great thyroid function you have!" when in fact the pituitary (or hypothalamus) will not be firing the signals correctly. I'd be looking for other thyroid hormones to be tested as well.


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## mbravebird (May 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
So is there an A supplement that is good to use other than high vitamin clo?

My son has a bleeding disorder and can only do CLO twice a week, when he's high on his meds, and even then I have to give him just a miniscule amount or he gets huge bruises. So we are big on alternatives to CLO for him. He is six, and will swallow pills, so I give him frozen liver "pills" -- basically just raw frozen liver cut into pill-size pieces. If that doesn't float your boat, you can add liver to hamburgers, etc. Liver is very high in A.

This year I started rendering our own lard and using it as our main saute oil. It has a good amount of D in it if it comes from pastured pigs. I also supp with extra D. As a side note, we are burning less easily this summer so far -- even my son who doesn't get fish oil, so I'm wondering if the lard is helping with sun tolerance.

Liver also has K2 in it. Goose liver has the most, chicken liver next, then beef liver. I'm currently searching for a source of grass-fed goose liver.


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## mbravebird (May 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
Hmmm...we have a nightlight in the hallway, and there's a clock radio with a display in her room...interesting. I might close their door at night to block light (their door is next to the stairwell, hence the nightlight). Thanks for the tip!

Are there any studies about longterm use of melatonin in kids, and for what dosage?









Yes, even a flashlight shone behind the knee can stop melatonin production. The skin senses light, and light stops melatonin production. Look on the hibernation diet thread in the TF forum for links to those studies. Streetlights matter too.

There is some evidence that long-term use of melatonin may suppress the body's ability to make its own. I can't find the study right now... maybe look on pubmed?

Melatonin is also one of the body's big defenses against cancer. People working the night shift have increase rates of cancer because of their decreased levels of melatonin, a finding confirmed in mouse studies. So, yeah, turn out those lights! You can also buy a red lightbulb if you really need light -- red light allows 70% more melatonin production to occur than regular light.

Melatonin also is what shuts the adrenals off and gives them a rest, and regulates fertility hormones, and supports weight loss/healthy weight. The list goes on. A couple of TBS of honey right before bed, combined with sleeping in darkness, will stimulate the body to make more melatonin on its own.

Was that more than you wanted to know?


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## Alison's Mom (May 3, 2007)

Man, oh man, is this ever confusing!

The latest: we got a wrist xray done which says her bone age is 4.5 VS her chronological age which is 5.5 Dr says this is good, because it probably means she will continue to grow to 14 instead of 13, for instance. I stopped growing at 12, but DH doesn't remember when he did, and I guess it's possible he was a 'late bloomer' in terms of growth and she inherited that from him.

We actually got into the ped endrocrinologist earlier this week - they took a complete history, and did ask some about diet and supplements, but of course were of the mindset that a multi vit once a day would be enough for the kids. The Dr mentioned Vit D with our northern climate and all, but said either CLO or a multi would be enough. He was adamant that a Vit D deficiency wasn't the reason she was short.

Blood test came back negative for Celiac (what a relief!), and normal levels for all the other stuff, but like someone mentioned, the thyroid levels are the TSH, which may not indicate a problem. The only one that hadn't come back was IVF5 or something like that which is a byproduct of growth hormone. They test for that first, and if it's low, then they test for growth hormone which is more time consuming and invasive for the child. They said a GH deficient child would not follow any sort of growth curve, like my DD is doing. Her curve is following roughly the same slope as the regular curve - it looks as if she just few very little maybe between 1 and 3. They want to monitor her growth and see her again in 6mo and after a while will determine if GH testing is needed. He said GH therapy is very expensive, about 10-20K per year and is it worth that, and daily injections for 10 years to be taller by a couple of inches? He said if she is GH deficient, that's one thing, but apparently some people who aren't deficient still take the therapy to be taller.

We are still generally off soy, with tofu maybe once a month only. I phoned Carlson's about the Vit A in their CLO and was told it was 'the natural palmitate'. Not sure about whether this is good or bad, but hopefully good?

I got some flying fish and masago roe today and DS, who loves fish, tried some and declared it yucky. I've been trying to find a tolerable multi with the highest levels of D and A, but since palmitate is bad, I've been looking for beta carotene, which is not the best, but not as bad as palmitate? I also got some Vit D drops with 400IU of cholecalciferol, which is good if they get around 1000 IU daily?

I'm still doing the bone broths, and make soup 1-2 times a week which they'll have some of, and use it to make rice and quinoa, which they'll also have some of, but they have refused to have it plain.


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## siennaflower (Aug 31, 2004)

I just wanted to update that we finally have a diagnosis for my dd, she has hypothyroidism. Which now that I've done some research on it, makes sense because besides being short she has also not had any teeth fall out yet, and she is almost 7 1/2. She will be taking Synrthroid and will be retested in about 6 weeks to see if the levels need to be adjusted.

Also want to add that her bone age scan showed that she had the bones of a 4 1/2 year old, if that information helps anyone here!


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siennaflower* 
I just wanted to update that we finally have a diagnosis for my dd, she has hypothyroidism. Which now that I've done some research on it, makes sense because besides being short she has also not had any teeth fall out yet, and she is almost 7 1/2. She will be taking Synrthroid and will be retested in about 6 weeks to see if the levels need to be adjusted.

Also want to add that her bone age scan showed that she had the bones of a 4 1/2 year old, if that information helps anyone here!

Glad you have a dx & a course of action. What were her symptoms besides being small? Did they dx by blood test?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siennaflower* 
I just wanted to update that we finally have a diagnosis for my dd, she has hypothyroidism. Which now that I've done some research on it, makes sense because besides being short she has also not had any teeth fall out yet, and she is almost 7 1/2. She will be taking Synrthroid and will be retested in about 6 weeks to see if the levels need to be adjusted.

Also want to add that her bone age scan showed that she had the bones of a 4 1/2 year old, if that information helps anyone here!


I would read this site to learn about the serious problems with Synthroid T4 only medication and also the misinterpretations of testing using TSH only.
www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

Did you have her anti thyroid and anti tpo antibodies tested for Hashimoto's? That is the most common cause of hypothyroidism and has other implications for treatment rather than the standard mainstream medicine view (most dr's won't test it b/c they view it as the same but it is an autoimmune disease with non celiac gluten intolerance as a primary etiology.)


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## siennaflower (Aug 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo* 
Glad you have a dx & a course of action. What were her symptoms besides being small? Did they dx by blood test?

Yes, she was dx by blood test. I don't have her numbers yet but will update once I do, I didn't think to ask when her Dr called. Besides being small (having gone from 30 percentile in height to 1 percentile over the last two years), she had not yet lost any of her baby teeth, has extremely dry skin, she fatigued quickly during physical activity and had bouts of constipation.


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## siennaflower (Aug 31, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I would read this site to learn about the serious problems with Synthroid T4 only medication and also the misinterpretations of testing using TSH only.
www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

Did you have her anti thyroid and anti tpo antibodies tested for Hashimoto's? That is the most common cause of hypothyroidism and has other implications for treatment rather than the standard mainstream medicine view (most dr's won't test it b/c they view it as the same but it is an autoimmune disease with non celiac gluten intolerance as a primary etiology.)

Thank you for the information. She has only gone through the first round of testing and I'm barely learning about her condition so bear with me







. She has not been tested for Hashimoto's but I will talk to her Dr about it. She was tested for celiacs but those results have not come in yet. Is the treatment for non celiac gluten intolerance a GF diet?


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## jmarroq (Jul 2, 2008)

My husband is about 5' 4". He had growth hormones as a child, but it was experimental back then. He was from Central America and his family drove him to NY a few times in the 70s and 80s for injections but it became a hassle, so they continued with a doctor in their country who supposedly could get the hormone. I read that a lot of the kids who got the hormones, both in the US and abroad back then ran into problems in adulthood, because often times the hormones were taken from people who were sick...they didn't test people who donated...something like that. I am sure it is a lot safer now.

In any case, I am guessing they didn't know much about growth hormones back then, and he didn't get enough of it, or he didn't get it soon enough..otherwise he would have grown a bit more. His dad is at least 5' 10", but his mom is about 5'0". One of his sisters is at least 5'9" and one is about 5'5" and the other is 5'0". The sister who is 5'0" married a man who is on the shorter side 5'8"ish, and their two boys are very small. She is going to do growth hormones with both of them. Not sure why. I asked her if the doctors know why they are so small and she looked at me like I was dumb and pointed to her mom and herself. I just thought that growth hormones seems extreme unless there is a genetic issue or a gland that is not working, etc...If they turn out to be their father's height, I don't see a problem. If they turn out to be my husband's height of 5'4" obviously it isn't a problem for me, but I guess men can be discriminated against when they are small, and perhaps certain jobs require a certain height/weight, etc. Her boys are very into "boyish" things like four wheelers and baseball...I suppose to play ball or race professionally, you have to be a certain height. She mentioned that the doctors will also "stop" puberty from happening with drugs, because that will buy them some time to grow a bit. I suppose once you hit puberty, the growing comes to a halt.

I haven't had to research it much, as my son seems to be pretty average height so far (I have good height on my dad's side, and I am average height, BUT my mom's side has some serious height issues, as my mom is only 5'0" and her dad was only 5'3". There may have been some poverty/war, illness, rationing of food, etc which contributed, as they are from Europe. My sister's husband is tall, and one of her girls is tiny, but she had tons of steroids due to asthma/allergies. My son has had quite a bit of steroids too, but he hasn't fallen into the "small" category since he was a toddler. He's still pretty average.


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