# Would this bother you?



## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

The local car licensing office in my area has two big ribbons painted on their front window. One says "God bless America" and the other says "Pray for our troops." The ribbons are bigger than I am. Since this office is run by the state, it seems like the state promoting religion. It irks me every time I see it. I'm thinking about sending an anonymous letter to the state BMV office. Or even a non-anonymous one, asking for a response within a specific amount of time.

Would this bother you? If it did, what would you do?


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## VeggieJoy (Oct 10, 2007)

I agree - not exactly a shining example of the separation of church and state. Perhaps send the letter and suggust that the wording be changed to "Support our troops".


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## sofysmommy (Feb 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VeggieJoy* 
I agree - not exactly a shining example of the separation of church and state. Perhaps send the letter and suggust that the wording be changed to "Support our troops".

Totally agree!


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## happyhippiemama (Apr 1, 2004)

yup, that ticks me off.


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## bellabear (Oct 16, 2007)

agreed.


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

OK, I got the address of the office itself. I'm going to write them and complain and ask for a reply by a certain date (a few weeks from now). If I don't get a response, or I'm not happy with it, I'm going to write to the state BMV office.


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## diamond lil (Oct 6, 2003)

Doesn't bother me.


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## maymorales (Dec 9, 2006)

How about just asking them to put up this sign?

"Bring our Troops Home!"







:


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## Jeanne D'Arc (Apr 7, 2007)

It doesnt bother me either.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

It bothers me too and I'd probably write a letter. Separation of church and state is really important to me.


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## potatofairy (Feb 28, 2007)

i thought we were supposed to have freedom from religious persecution, _not_ separation of church and state....


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## Kaitnbugsmom (Dec 4, 2003)

there is no seperation of church and state in our founding documents.

that said, I don't like the giant signs on a BMV idea because it causes more problems {as evidenced by this thread} than it does anything else. People are either going to pray for our troops or not, a sign at the BMV isn't going to sway them either way. It's a waste of time & tax dollars {somebody had to put them up and get paid for their time, after all}


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## catherinevictoria (Sep 29, 2005)

Dumb stuff made by dull people - a scourge. Tacky and sentimental.


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## BunnyShoes (Sep 20, 2007)

This debate never seems to end, does it?


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacelovingmama* 
It bothers me too and I'd probably write a letter. Separation of church and state is really important to me.


Yeah, that.


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## anniedare (May 31, 2005)

God and praying for personal gain both reference a very specific Christianity, and I definitely feel that I am persecuted going into a state office where I am required to go in order to move freely though the landscape and am subjected to admonitions to participate in the majority's religion.

And they used my money to try and convert me on top of the insult. Of course, it's not a land of free religion -- the supreme court uses biblical verses in its decisions. It's just a constant reminder that I am not welcome in that space.

It all just makes me feel hated.


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## faerierose (Jul 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anniedare* 
God and praying for personal gain both reference a very specific Christianity, and I definitely feel that I am persecuted going into a state office where I am required to go in order to move freely though the landscape and am subjected to admonitions to participate in the majority's religion.

And they used my money to try and convert me on top of the insult. Of course, it's not a land of free religion -- the supreme court uses biblical verses in its decisions. It's just a constant reminder that I am not welcome in that space.

It all just makes me feel hated.

ITA and the local licensing place here has similar signs along with a many anti-choice...I mean pro- life propaganda, not to mention the prayer plaques. I feel very very uncomfortable being forced to spend time in that place


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## momeg (Dec 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaitnbugsmom* 
_there is no seperation of church and state in our founding documents.

that said, I don't like the giant signs on a BMV idea because it causes more problems {as evidenced by this thread} than it does anything else. People are either going to pray for our troops or not, a sign at the BMV isn't going to sway them either way. It's a waste of time & tax dollars {somebody had to put them up and get paid for their time, after all}_

My thoughts exactly.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Kaitnbugsmom said:


> there is no seperation of church and state in our founding documents.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacelovingmama* 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaitnbugsmom* 
there is no seperation of church and state in our founding documents.


Not literally, no. But it is no less important to me. Just as the equal treatment of men and women or of the different races is not stated in our founding papers, I still find both of the utmost importance.

Some things have evolved as American values and are equally important as things explicitly stated by the (old, generally religious, slave-holding white men) who drafted the original documents.


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

If it did bother me I simply wouldn't go there.


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## VeggieJoy (Oct 10, 2007)

I think that more people would be bothered if the decals didn't suggest a judeo-christian message, but another faith. It's easy for those in the majority to forget that they would feel strange if a government office was plastered with a promotion of faith they didn't believe in. Simply suggesting ignoring the decals or not entering the offending building sidesteps the actual issue at hand, that, "no religious sect or society ought to be favored or established by law in preference to others". This phrase is included in multiple states' constitutional ratifications.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *diamond lil* 
Doesn't bother me.

Me neither, but thats probably because we are religious and we are a military family.

I'm with Jeca, if I was bothered by what a business was promoting, I'd definately not go there.


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momz3* 
I'm with Jeca, if I was bothered by what a business was promoting, I'd definately not go there.

It's not just any business, it's a car license office. If I want to register my car in this state, I have to go there. My only other choice is an hour's drive away. So this is not one of those "just don't go there" situations. This is a STATE-run office, sponsoring a specific religious view.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *minkajane* 
It's not just any business, it's a car license office. If I want to register my car in this state, I have to go there. My only other choice is an hour's drive away. So this is not one of those "just don't go there" situations. This is a STATE-run office, sponsoring a specific religious view.

If it were me, I would drive that hour if I were against what they were representing if no action was taken by the state.


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## Nikki98 (Sep 9, 2006)

This sign would not bother me, after all the very money that we spend has "In God We Trust" on it, is anyone protesting about this?


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## Nikki98 (Sep 9, 2006)

peacelovingmama;
Not literally said:


> There have been amendments to the Constitution in which slavery was abolished and citizenship granted to slaves (the thirteen and fourteenth amendment to the Constitution). Also the womens right to vote is included in the nineteenth ammendment-which are are part of the founding papers.


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *catherinevictoria* 
Dumb stuff made by dull people - a scourge. Tacky and sentimental.

???

That's an awful big brush you have.


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## VeggieJoy (Oct 10, 2007)

Quote:

This sign would not bother me, after all the very money that we spend has "In God We Trust" on it, is anyone protesting about this?

I am offended by it, yes. I do not trust in a god, nor do a good number of Americans. I am excluded from this patriotic declaration of "We".

Here's the background on why the phrase was added:

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fac...-we-trust.html


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VeggieJoy* 
I am offended by it, yes. I do not trust in a god, nor do a good number of Americans. I am excluded from this patriotic declaration of "We".

Here's the background on why the phrase was added:

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fac...-we-trust.html

Yeah, that....


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## jessupfamily (Nov 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaitnbugsmom* 
there is no separation of church and state in our founding documents. }

This is true! That is something that became a trend a long time after the constitution was written!
I am a Christian, not your typical mega-church Christian. We don't participate in this government (of course we have to obey the laws of the land), as we believe what Jesus said "my kingdom (government) is not of this world". And I wouldn't be bothered by the ribbons and signs, I just realize how mixed up our country is and use God as some back drop for it's agenda. All government run offices are going to use some sort of propaganda to promote whatever "thing" they need to promote. Just wait for the next "thing" to come along and the signs and ribbons will change.
Blessings,
Amy J.


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

The First Amendment prohibits the US government from preferring one religion over another. By supporting the Christian God, or any God, or even specificially supporting the lack of a god, it is preferring one religious belief over another. These ribbons support the Christian God. I do not worship the Christian God and I do not want that belief forced upon me by a governmental organization.

I don't think many Christians understand how it feels to have the government and the country as a whole support a religion you disagree with. How would you feel if the ribbon said "Gaia bless our troops" or "In Buddha we trust"? You would be furious, because the governmental agency would be supporting a religion you disagree with. Just because you happen to agree with the brand of religion espoused by the majority in this country doesn't mean it's ok for it to be blatantly supported by the government.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nikki98* 
There have been amendments to the Constitution in which slavery was abolished and citizenship granted to slaves (the thirteen and fourteenth amendment to the Constitution). Also the womens right to vote is included in the nineteenth ammendment-which are are part of the founding papers.

Amendments can always be added -- and I'm not sure abolishing slavery or finally granting women the right to vote fully encompassed their equality as human beings.

There are many cherished values that do not come literally from the language of the founding fathers.

For me, the Establishment Clause, coupled with a strong tradition of separation of church and state are enough. Unlike Scalia, I am decidedly NOT an originalist when it comes to interpreting our constitution. I don't see why the biases of long-dead, slave-owning, sexist white men trumps the evolving values of our society.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nikki98* 
This sign would not bother me, after all the very money that we spend has "In God We Trust" on it, is anyone protesting about this?

That was not origninally on our currency. Nor did our founding documents suggest that our currency should contain a religious message. It was added due to the pressures of certain religious groups.

And yes, there have been protests and lawsuits about that language. After all, wouldn't one expect protests if secular groups pressured Congress into changing the message to "there is no god" or "in human beings we trust" or "In Buddha we trust"?

No, it's not ok with many Americans that our currency has that message. I don't protest it though, as other issues are more pressing to me and I have limited time.


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## Nikki98 (Sep 9, 2006)

I think many points have been made however if we look back at the history of this country I think we will see that it was founded on religious thought and principles, of course this can be debated-but this is what I have read. Of course the people who established this country on religious thought/principle were far from perfect-in fact many of them were very evil hearted (as evidenced by the Trail of Tears and the treatment of many native African peoples and of women), these actions can _never_ be forgotten-yet at the same token the religious history of this country cannot be wiped out either. However, in this country most people are free to chose whether or not they want to be part of a "religious group" with out fear of persecution or interference. There are temples, mosques, synagouges in many states all over this nation in which people practice their own faith/beliefs. Now in how many other places (in the world, of course there are some) can such diversity of faith be found. I doubt if one would see that banner in countries that are closed off-and do not practice democracy. So in pratice that banner represents part of the history of this country (founded upon religious thought) and is in itself a sign of religious freedom, the only problem is that you (general you) do not agree with what it represents but you have the opportunity to voice your opposition to it, an opportunity that many in the world do not have because of fear of persecution.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nikki98* 
I think many points have been made however if we look back at the history of this country I think we will see that it was founded on religious thought and principles, ...

I think it's all in what one emphasizes. Sure, the first settlers/pilgrims/colonists were very religious. But it is also important to remember that the very reason they came here was to escape religious persecution and the tyranny of a religious government. And that the entanglement between King and religion is precisely what they sought to avoid. That the Constitution does embody that desire (not using the exact words "separation of church and state" but making clear that the gov't was not to force religion on anyone ("make no laws" language).

So to me, the fact that the colonists were religious does not mean that our country was "founded on religion" or any such thing. Religious freedom, I think, is the more general value that early Americans sought to pursue (not to mention that the real first "Americans," the native peoples, were not Christians.


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:

So to me, the fact that the colonists were religious does not mean that our country was "founded on religion" or any such thing. Religious freedom, I think, is the more general value that early Americans sought to pursue (not to mention that the real first "Americans," the native peoples, were not Christians.
THANK you! I grow oh so weary of the "this country was founded on Xian values" argument being trotted out every time this comes up.


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## Nikki98 (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peacelovingmama* 
Religious freedom, I think, is the more general value that early Americans sought to pursue (not to mention that the real first "Americans," the native peoples, were not Christians.

I do very much agree with this. I think the we should refer to them as the first group of colonists to come to the U.S. from Europe.


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VeggieJoy* 
I agree - not exactly a shining example of the separation of church and state.

What? We have that??

ITA with the above poster who says that it may not have been in the Constitution word-for-word, but it's now a core value, and one that we wave around as a sign of our freedom (even though we don't have it). Also, our founding fathers held the idea that it SHOULD be an American value, as it was Thomas Jefferson who referenced the idea in the first place.

I would politely draft a letter, and send a copy to each employee in the DMV (if I didn't know exactly who should get it







) and also flood the office with letters. Organize a petition.

THAT is what America stands for, not religiously-oriented signs in gov'tal windows.

Also, I think "In Allah we trust" should be given some billing time on our coins, as people are so loath to give the phrase up. Then "In Oneness we trust", "In Krishna we trust", "In Mother Goddess we trust", "In nothing we trust", etc. Because, don't forget, WE WERE FOUNDED ON RELIGIOUS EQUALITY. I am a devout Jew, and I think my G-d has had enough time on our coins. We should give some of the other guys a chance, and really show the world what it means to be religiously equal.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *potatofairy* 
i thought we were supposed to have freedom from religious persecution, _not_ separation of church and state....

not either exactly - the government isn't supposed to do anything that favors a religion - as in allowing one religion to be "official"

the exact wording:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"


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## Denvergirlie (Oct 22, 2005)

Pray for our Troops

No I have zero issue with this at all.

Prayer is the act of attempting to communicate, commonly with a sequence of words, with a deity or spirit for the purpose of worshiping, requesting guidance, requesting assistance, confessing sins or to express one's thoughts and emotions. The words of the prayer may take the form of a hymn, incantation or a spontaneous utterance in the praying person's words.

The great spiritual traditions offer a wide variety of devotional acts. There are morning and evening prayers, graces said over meals, and reverent physical gestures. Some Christians bow their heads and fold their hands. Native Americans dance. Some Sufis whirl. Hindus chant. Orthodox Jews sway their bodies back and forth. Quakers keep silent. Among these methodologies are a variety of approaches to prayer.


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## Denvergirlie (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *minkajane* 
These ribbons support the Christian God. I do not worship the Christian God and I do not want that belief forced upon me by a governmental organization.



Wrong.... how on earth does "pray" mean that it's all about the praying to a Christain God?

There are numerous different ways to pray.


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

The pray one wasn't specifically referring to the Christian God, but the "God bless our troops" one was. The prayer one bothers me less, but it's still an endorsement of religion. Some people don't pray. Some people don't believe in a deity. They shouldn't have religion forced on them by the government. It's their right to believe or not believe as they see fit.


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Denvergirlie* 
Wrong.... how on earth does "pray" mean that it's all about the praying to a Christain God?

There are numerous different ways to pray.

I agree. It doesn't say who to pray to.


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

It still implies that prayer should be a part of your life, which many people disagree about. It also implies the philosophy that you should pray FOR things, which even many people who pray all the time disagree about.

I could care less what it says, honestly, because if it references ANY religious practice, it should not be up in a governmental office.


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VeggieJoy* 
I think that more people would be bothered if the decals didn't suggest a judeo-christian message, but another faith.


Tangential ...

Am assuming you mean "a Christian message."

Because "judeo-christian" is a Christian construct, and it means Christian. There is nothing "judeo" (aka Jewish) about it.

'K, back to the thread ...


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## Nikki98 (Sep 9, 2006)

**


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## Nikki98 (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smeisnotapirate* 
I could care less what it says, honestly, because if it references ANY religious practice, it should not be up in a governmental office.

So how about a Congress that prays before session and a President who openly professes his faith and belief in God. How should this be dealt with?


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## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nikki98* 
So how about a Congress that prays before session and a President who openly professes his faith and belief in God. How should this be dealt with?

To be honest, I don't think it should be done publicly, just like I would never ask for a prayer to be said in my workplace before we open the bank every day (can you IMAGINE the flak I'd get???). Allowing a moment of silence is one thing, which I'm ok with. You can balance your checkbook if you'd like during a moment of silence, which I think my atheist/non-praying friends would be ok with (though I can't presume to speak for them, so go check with your local atheist







). But honestly? It has no place. I pray before I start work on my own time, and Congresswomen and men can pray before they get into the chamber, if it's really that important to them.

And I don't know many people who can really deny that the "I believe in the Protestant G-d" card is what gets people into the presidency in this country. Remember the stink when Kennedy went into office about "the Papacy controlling the White House"? Rubbish. And he's the ONLY representation of non-Protestants in the presidency. To me, that's







:

I honestly can't begin to imagine how to deal with the inequality in America's leadership. I'd love to see quotas for religious, sexual, political, and gender equality (as well as age equality) in our government, but the thought of implementing that kind of democracy... it's staggering. So I have no idea. But it certainly won't stop me from speaking out against it.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

I haven't read the other replies yet, but in answer to the OP, that situation would offend me beyond belief!! But the stickers don't surprise me, to be honest- particularly not in Ohio. Back to read now.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momz3* 
If it were me, I would drive that hour if I were against what they were representing if no action was taken by the state.










But what if the car licensing office an hour's drive away also had 'Pray for our troops' & 'God bless AMerica' on their windows? Do you continue to drive on? To the state border? ANd then what?

I forgot to mention in my first post what action I thought to take. I'd write a letter- a polite one of course. And I'd start doing my research about the legal ins & outs of separation of church & state in Ohio, & in the US in general.

And then when the first letter was fobbed off or ignored, I'd send another polite letter asking if the department in charge prefered me to share my research with a media outlet instead of them.









'Pray for our troops' & 'God bless AMerica' is just fine on the window of a supermarket, a lawyers office, a club window, a shop window, a private home, a car bumper, etc. etc. But it is definitely I _not_ okay in a public space.

.........

Got side-tracked there- off to read more.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nikki98* 
So how about a Congress that prays before session and a President who openly professes his faith and belief in God. How should this be dealt with?

Ah! Here is the end of the thread! Personally I would prefer that Congress & the US gov't in general remain a secular workplace. Professing faith turns me off a politician, & off a government in general.

I mean, I know the faith of both men in the running the Australian election (held next weekend) for Prime Minister. But I haven't heard the subject of religious faith mentioned once during the 6 week campaign... It's a non-issue here, & I like that about our system of government.

ANd since I am a dual citizen & get vote in both countries, it is very interesting to contrast & compare the two systems. For example, we have third party representation here, which I love, because it means the Greens are on the radar, kwim?


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## breachaplin (Jan 19, 2007)

it does not bother me at all. and as a militery spouse i would be proud to do buissnes there and might even compliment them on the signs.
i know most troops including my husband would be thankful for any prayers no matter how they are said or to whom and do not care if such signs showing support for them offend anyone.


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

I should have mentioned this in the original post, but I am active duty military. I am also a Wiccan. I don't like being told that the Christian God is more worthy of bestowing blessings than my Goddess.


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## Denvergirlie (Oct 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *minkajane* 
I should have mentioned this in the original post, but I am active duty military. I am also a Wiccan. I don't like being told that the Christian God is more worthy of bestowing blessings than my Goddess.

Once again, let me ask where does "pray for our troops" say that you must pray to a Christain God?

Most of the world's religions pray, a full 85%+ of the world's population prays, but I can assure you that they pray to their own gods/ goddess and not all to the Christain God.


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

I didn't mention prayers. I mentioned blessings. The other ribbon said "God bless America." "God" in this context is generally understood to be the Christian God. Why is my Goddess less worthy to bestow blessings? If the ribbon said "Goddess bless" or "Buddha bless," there would be a HUGE outcry.

ETA: You also keep ignoring the comments which mention the fact that some people DON'T pray. Athiests don't believe in a deity and should not have belief forced upon them by a government agency. They are no less worthy of freedom than anyone else, simply because they have a LACK of belief rather than a belief.


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Denvergirlie* 
Once again, let me ask where does "pray for our troops" say that you must pray to a Christain God?

Most of the world's religions pray, a full 85%+ of the world's population prays, but I can assure you that they pray to their own gods/ goddess and not all to the Christain God.

C'mon. I think we all understand the implication there.


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## ilikethedesert (Feb 4, 2004)

I don't think this would bother me, only because it says "in god we trust" on our money, too. It doesn't apply to everyone, but its still there and we ALL use money.

I don't necessarily agree with the war or organized religion, but feel like you have to put up with stuff anyway. It's not hurting anyone and even though I feel the war should end, I still want those over there to remain safe.

I ALSO think that when something bothers you, you should speak up. It doesn't bother the majority. At least that is what we are lead to beleive. Although if the majority started writing letters saying they didn't like something- like what you saw- it would change.


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## youmb00 (Sep 25, 2007)

It would bother me but I'm so used to it now..

My husband's work, the owner opens every meeting with a loooong prayer.
I think that's very offensive and If it were me I would've complained for sure.


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## dancebaraka (Dec 14, 2006)

Just wanted to add to the lively commentary here, as I am one of those unique few who keep getting mentioned whom are devoutly spiritual but do not pray. In my tradition, we consider true prayer to be listening to God, not asking for outcomes. The signs would bother me and I do notice these things, but I wouldn't be outright offended, as I understand that the INTENT behind this, and much of the dominant Christian paradigm in Western culture, is sincere and loving. I do not like when meals or meetings are begun with prayers "in Jesus name" just as I am sure the pressure of a 30 minute silent meditation when you eat at my house would offend... it is an encroachment upon another's personal space and freedom IMHO. But alas, I understand that the INTENT is not to come off like this, so I always let these myriad public displays pass. But that's just me... I just adore folks whom are crazy for Divine Spirit... I'd let almost anything pass! In case anyone's interested what someone like me actually feels when they see these kinds of signs, there it is.
I would never boycott a place for signs like these... I am genuinely grateful for their INTENT and would hope that in their love and compassion, they would want to learn more about the diverse ways that people embrace Spirit... if/when that happens, I will be here to lovingly represent something different.


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## orangebird (Jun 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *diamond lil* 
Doesn't bother me.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jeanne D'Arc* 

It doesnt bother me either.









seriously









Quote:


Originally Posted by *potatofairy* 
i thought we were supposed to have freedom from religious persecution, _not_ separation of church and state....


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kaitnbugsmom* 
there is no seperation of church and state in our founding documents.










:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeca* 
If it did bother me I simply wouldn't go there.

It is a government office and we have no choice but to go there, you know, if we want to be legally driving our cars!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *breachaplin* 
it does not bother me at all. and as a militery spouse i would be proud to do buissnes there and might even compliment them on the signs.
i know most troops including my husband would be thankful for any prayers no matter how they are said or to whom and do not care if such signs showing support for them offend anyone.

you don't care if they offend people? I am shocked at how people feel about this.

OK, personally? I would be pissed. I have a hard time with confrontations but I am sure I would find a way to say something. The window decorations are beyond wrong.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VeggieJoy* 
I think that more people would be bothered if the decals didn't suggest a judeo-christian message, but another faith. It's easy for those in the majority to forget that they would feel strange if a government office was plastered with a promotion of faith they didn't believe in. Simply suggesting ignoring the decals or not entering the offending building sidesteps the actual issue at hand, that, "no religious sect or society ought to be favored or established by law in preference to others". This phrase is included in multiple states' constitutional ratifications.

Yes! Thank you. What if the windows had something like "no god, Know peace" or some other atheist godless saying, or pagan blessing, or Muslim praise to Allah. Don't tell me these same people who have no problem with the signs in the OP wouldn't have a problem with a "thank god there is no god" window decoration.

I am surprised that the DMV has done that. I would do or say something. I would have to. This kind of crap has to stop. Write a letter at the very least. Ugh. I would love to try to write a letter if I knew the address of the DMV in question. But I don't live in the area so it might not be right. Is there a local organization you can contact?

I suggest this book on Thomas Jefferson


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## zosiasmama (Dec 22, 2006)

Doesn't bother me! I think it is nice to remind people to continue to remember that they are there.


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

It's definitely important to remember they are over there which is why a simple "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" suffices.


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## orangebird (Jun 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zosiasmama* 
Doesn't bother me! I think it is nice to remind people to continue to remember that they are there.

Huh? That they are there?


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Those are really generic signs.


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

How are they generic? "God" as a proper noun is pretty much the opposite of generic.


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## PaytinandAvarysMom (Apr 19, 2006)

dfgdgfdgfd


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Yeah, I doubt it Patina. For one thing we don't all believe in "God" and for another read the thread, the money thing is explained.


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## beansmama (Aug 2, 2007)

nevermind. old thread


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

It's not that old but FWIW it's about being marginalized.


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