# Walmart for "Natural Living"??



## kamilla626 (Mar 18, 2004)

I expect to get flamed for bringing this up. But I don't want to argue, only point out an observation:

I'm fairly new here and not as "crunchy" as many members seem to be, but I'm amazed at the number of times people mention buying something at Walmart. I'm not going to search for, or quote any specific examples, but I've occasionally seen people suggest Walmart when other members ask where they might be able to find something, or people mention the money they save by shopping there.

With Walmart being one of the worst companies when it comes to the use of child labor, failure to promote women, damage to the environment, discrimination against people with disabilities (the list goes on and on!), promoting or shopping at Walmart seems to go against most of the ideals that are represented here.

Just a thought! While I run for cover, does anyone have any insights on this?


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

yes we have some unrepentant Walmart lovers, and even some Walmart employees.

Most of us HATE Walmart though!! Me included.


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## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

I *try* hard to not shop there. I go maybe once/twice a year. Usually because I've looked everywhere else or everywhere else is closed. I also wonder how many other companies (Target, etc) have such awful practices too and we just don't know about it. It's gotten to the point where when buying anything from pretty much anywhere I have to feel guilty, KWIM?


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## corrie43 (Mar 9, 2003)

Just want to chime in, my DH works at walmart. I am not proud of it, but a job is a job, and I can't get him to change where he works. He loves it, and our well being depends on him working.

I figure all the great stuff I do for the environment and natural living balances it out


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Not everyone lives on a 6 digit salary, or two that add up that way...

All anyone can do is her best.

Where we cut costs by buying a few items at Wallieworld allows us the room to help keep our local Giant Eagle in business by doing our main shopping there.

For my weaving business, such as it is, the $1 per cone that I save by getting the exact same yarn there instead of elsewhere gives me $ to support the independent yarn/supply shop as much as I can. It also allows me to price my weavings such that someone may actually buy them...


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

: I *did* shop at Wal-Mart the other day.

A couple years ago DH bought some poster frames there ($15 compared to $20 at Target, btw) and then recently decided he didn't want them. Two were still in shrinkwrap and I just couldn't let that $30 sit there. So, the kids and I took them back and I wasn't about to let them keep my money.

I was glad I had that credit, though, because they are the only B&M store that I have found that carry individual pieces of pyrex (we are trying to get rid of our plastic). Anyway, I got 4 4 cup storage containers, 3 2 cup, and 4 1 cup (plus 2 six packs of pop and two things of Reeses Pieces--- I felt so bad for draging my kids in there!) and didn't have to pay shipping. Now, if those break, or we need more, we'll see how strong my desire to stay out of Wal-Mart is.

We have been shopping outside of Target a lot more lately. BUT, they do have $5 water shoes for the kids w/good traction I can't pass up. Oh, and $7 superman shirts


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

Not everyone lives on a 6 digit salary, or two that add up that way...
We certainly don't and I would make a good guess that we are the *only* people in our neighborhood that is true for.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

ITA with the OP. We don't have a six digit income either, but we are willing to spend a little more money at other places that treat their employees better. Yes, there are other stores that exploit workers. Retail in general is notorious for lousy salaries. But Walmart is worse than most. http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i...s=featherstone
It is more important to me that children grow up in families with healthcare and with parents who have close to a living wage than it is for me to save fifty cents on some crappy item.


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EFmom*
ITA with the OP. We don't have a six digit income either, but we are willing to spend a little more money at other places that treat their employees better. Yes, there are other stores that exploit workers. Retail in general is notorious for lousy salaries. But Walmart is worse than most. http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i...s=featherstone
It is more important to me that children grow up in families with healthcare and with parents who have close to a living wage than it is for me to save fifty cents on some crappy item.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

In addition, instead of just buying the same stuff for more $ elsewhere, I just consciously try to buy less stuff. Ends up being the same amt of $.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

I don't like Walmart.

I also would say that it's better to *consciously* buy well made items that will last instead of bulk-buying a bunch of crap. I notice Walmart mass markets poor quality crap.

When I was a kid we didn't buy as many anything as we do now. I only had one regrigerator my entire childhood. Dittos for the washer and dryer.

I had a small green bike when I was small and a blue bike when I grew bigger. Two bikes my entire childhood.

Just a few new outfits each season (about three outfits) that's it.

If we were less materialistic and appriciated what we had and thought out purchases to make sure they're the best thing for our families we wouldn't need to settle for Walmart quality.

And I don't make a six figure salary.

Debra Baker


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

What's this "Walmart quality" stuff?







Does that corporation only buy seconds or something? Pyrex is a quality brand, and can be had at Walmart. Ovaltine is a quality product, one of the few we buy there. It's not a matter of 50 cents either: $3.13 @ Wallie, $4.59 @ our Giant Eagle. Careful shopping applies no matter where one goes: Target, Walmart, thrift store... I suppose I could drive the extra miles to the health food store for less expensive rice milk by the case rather than paying more at Giant Eagle, but would the gas cost and pollution and time balance out?

We're most definately doing the buying less method, and supporting our other local retailers as much as we can. Unfortunately, for us at least, there's also the matter of gas usage to drive the extra miles to other stores to pay more.

Our Walmart may be in Yuppieville, or rather the front end is, but many of the customers I've seen there don't look to have much choice in shopping there. When the choice is buy food you Can afford or go hungry, what are they supposed to do? We have enough income to have choices to avoid W's sodium laden meats, but can also see that there's a need being Somewhat met. I'd rather see everyone have the income to have the choices, including Wallie's employees, but until that happens.....

I can't belief I'm verbally supporting the place!







:


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## Fianna (Sep 4, 2003)

I don't like Wally-world either, but there are times I do buy stuff there. Not the bulk, off-brand, cheap crap. But stuff that I have priced elsewhere (like natural cleaning products, or tp, or tangerine juice (which my children love), or office supplies that I need for my businesses. And the money I save by doing that often allows me to buy organic foods at my grocery store. Or allows me to splurge on a Hanna Anderson outfit for my girls, usually second hand, which is a fantastic company that gives employees a living wage and makes fantastic clothes. So I see it as a trade-off.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Spaghetti sauce as an example:
Wal-Fart $1.00
Whole Foods $2.49

Now that I've decided that we aren't going to reapply for food stamps, buying our non-perishable foods at Wal-Mart can make the difference between eating Ramen and actually being able to make dinner.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

wallyworld is the cheapest place to get diapers here other than "the great canadian superstore" and I won't go into what I think about them - let's just say its not good.

One of the reasons I shop there is that it looks better than the other "cheap" store Zellers. Zellers is all dark inside, Wally is at least white and light and it doesn't feel like the roof is about to fall on my head.

And when the choices are the place you hate, a place that gives you clausterphobia or a place that is way too busy, you pick the least of the three evils.

So, I'm still going to shop at walmart - until London Drugs opens their doors.


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

WM employee here (or the partner to one more specifically)

We do *not* shop there. We do accept their money because we gotta pay the bills, plus I totally dig what ti is my DH has to do there (he's an employer advocate number cruncher. He researchers in behalf of the employee rather than the employer)

However I don't boycott them. To me it is about balance. the things I would and wouldn't buy there vary. hair salon, photo studio, and food are tolerable in my book. Walmart makes little to no profit with these three things. Food has a less than 1% mark up and the other two are considered guest services. They are "lures" The biggest mark up is on the "junk" and the clothes. Which means they make most of their money there.

One thing that irritates me to no end is when people curse and boycott walmart while in line at McDonalds wearing the same name brands and ordering from discount retailers that purchase from the exact same importers as walmart. Conscience consumerism is so much deeper to me than looking at a store front and saying no to it. I try to avoid all corporatations and make my money count locally and in smaller companies.

It also bugs me when people say they simply can't afford not to shop there and then buy 20-50 dollar diapers







: but I know we each have choices with our money and it isn't my place to tell anyone where they should spend. I just think if walmart didn't exist we'd all find a way to get what we needed and prioritize what we truly need.

To me it isn't about walmart or no walmart- it is all about using your dollar wisely and supporting those you believe in. Whatever company is #1 next will have all its evils exposed to. it's sadly the American way.


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## polka123 (Nov 27, 2003)

For me to be a SAHM, we have to shop @ places like Walmart.
We have no choice. I go b'ween there & Kmart.

It's not the greatest Co. but to me their are way worse.

March of Dimes does heinous animal testing for your donation $$ in the name of kids which has proven to be unneeded

http://www.pcrm.org/magazine/GM99Spr...99Spring6.html

http://www.pcrm.org/resch/charities/...mmon_qs.html#1

Quote:

In 2001, the March of Dimes provided nearly $200,000 to researchers at the Oregon Regional Primate Research Center to cause uterine infections in healthy pregnant monkeys to try to trigger premature labor. In these experiments, researchers insert monitoring cables into the monkeys' uteruses and into their babies' bodies, tethering the animals in cages that are too small to meet animal care guidelines. When the babies are born, they are killed for further study. This is despite the fact that physicians have known for decades that bacterial infections are linked to pre-term birth.
I've always been offered a chair if I was nursing while walking around, I've never had a problem returning items w/o a slip, I like their material selection, etc.

My DD worked both @ Kmart & WAlmart & she really liked the W better.
She was promoted in 3 months @ W-mart & a pay raise.
She also started her Mgr. training but decided to go to school.
Y'know, I try to buy from local merchants & such but some purchases I have to make & W-mart until I win the lottery


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## flminivanmama (Nov 21, 2001)

we have WAY less than a 6 figure salary and I never ever go to walmart. It hasn't been difficult to boycott since I never shopped there much to begin with before I knew about all they did to drive out the competition and to hurt their employees.

spagetti sauce - grow tomatoes, buy onions and garlic, and make my own. much less than $1


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## mimie (Mar 7, 2003)

No one's mentioned the problem of living in a small town... it's pretty much Wal-Mart or nothing where I live in rural Oregon. There is a small main street, and I buy what I can there (scrapbook supplies, antiques, things from JC Penney) but other than that it is 70 miles to the nearest Target or other stores.

I'm not fond of Wal Mart, I NEVER shopped there when I lived in Portland and had a choice, but now, I don't really have much of a choice. We don't buy groceries there, but for other household items, that's where we go.

It does cut down on the amount of stuff we buy, so that's a good thing! We also buy more stuff online. But when it comes right down to it and we need garbage bags and shampoo and my hair dryer has blown out, we go to Wal Mart.


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## CAmomto1 (Sep 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
In addition, instead of just buying the same stuff for more $ elsewhere, I just consciously try to buy less stuff. Ends up being the same amt of $.

Same here. We're an under-six-figure, one-income family in So. Calif. We have choices when it comes to where to shop, so for us there is no reason, none whatsoever, to ever need to shop at Wal-Mart. Between being thrifty and making do with less when need be, we can stick to our ideals.


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## HRC121799 (Aug 8, 2003)

We quit shopping at Wal-mart a few months ago, but recently made one purchase there of something we couldn't find anywhere else for the price (and couldn't afford to pay higher, it was like a $300 price difference!) Now we're back to never shopping there. Our income is under $23,000.00 a year. We do have a lot of other choices where to shop though. For non-food items we go to Costco (membership bought for us by my Mom







we save up for awhile to do a big shopping there, to stock up for months worth of items, or we go around holidays when we've gotten $$$ as gifts) and for food we go to the local natural foods store, or to Fred Meyer (Kroger elsewhere).


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## Victorian (Jan 2, 2003)

I don't go to walmart. I prefer Target because the WM here feels grimy to me. but I have to say that although I dislike there practices, I find it hard to hate them because my sister works there. they gave her a job even though she had a felony and no else would give her a chance. they have premoted her, given her health insurance and raises. they are nice to her and she is doing so well there. she has turned her life completely around. i think they have some credit for it.


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## Persephone (Apr 8, 2004)

I hate Wal Mart and refuse to shop there. For the record, we don't make that much money. We've been married about 2-3 weeks, and I don't work. DH makes about $900/ month. We also save 10% of that. We shop at Kroger and the farmer's market. I'm trying to get it so that we shop at Kroger on a rare basis too. I'd love to spend all my money on local businesses.


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## frand (May 8, 2004)

Victorian - what an interesting post -- I would bet your sister's great experience would boil down to (1) her doing a great job and (2) having a nice humane boss. It's nice to be reminded that it's the individual qualities of people that make a difference and that good stories can emerge from unlikely sources.
I don't shop at WM because I felt like I was on another planet the one time I went in there. Definitely felt grimy. I noticed so many people leaning over their carts, like they couldn't walk standing up, just kind of cruising zombie-like, I started to get the giggles. I really pretty much feel alienated in any of those big warehouse stores because I just start to feel like I'm surrounded by so much junk!


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

We just had our income cut by at least 1/3 because DP lost his job. But we still shop at wallyworld because .. well.. just because.

And soon I'll just be sending DP to the store with a list of groceries. Argh.


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## momsgotmilk4two (Sep 24, 2002)

I'd LOVE to be able to never shop at Walmart, to buy everything from wahm's and small mom and pop stores and I do it whenever I can. But for me, being a sahm comes first. I can't afford to pay more when I can get it for less at Walmart or Target (I'm really more of a Target shopper than Walmart). I would love it if I could afford to buy us all organic clothes hand sewn by people on the MDC boards, but unfortunatly with the high cost of living and being a single income family, we just can't. We do what we can. We buy veggies from Farmers Markets locally, we buy books and cd's from independant store owners, go to local restaurants instead of big chains, etc. but when it comes to clothes, t.p., toothpaste, etc. I just don't know what else to do.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Well, it's good to hear that they don't make that much off of their food, because we need to do crazy stuff like eat.

(And we don't buy 20-50$ diapers. We make roughly $1300 a month with a family of 4.)


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

We shop at the big W because it saves us over $100 a month.. We buy our meat from local grocery stores and meat lockers, and pretty much everythign else and Wally world.. We get most of our clothes 2nd hand from garage sales that MIL shops.. We use CD's and mostly cloth napkins and rags for cleaning.. Dh is trying to make a go of his own business.. Every dime really DOES count..

Warm Squishy Feelings..

Dyan


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

I just wanted to clarify that I do NOT think everyone who shops at WM to save cash is buying expensive diapers. I was just saying ti is one of those pet peeves of mine. I'm not keeping track or anything









I do realize and accept that my choice not to shop there is in part a choice of privilege. Sometimes I think ti is funny that I live in the walmart meca (the original location and starting point) and we have SO MANY options outside of WM- especially local smaller businesses. We also get to see some of the good things they're doing with their money (not that it outweighs the negatives)

Thankfully at the same time we stopped shopping there we also made some other changes in our diet and life- which included needing half as much stuff as we used to "need" and eating less meat. As well as eliminating most corporations from our spending. Our grocery bill hasn't changed at all even buying all organic. Our other expenses have dropped dramatically. So all in all we've come out ahead. However not everyone has room to cut out a lot of spending when they are already on a tight budget.

I say if you really need to save money go first to the farmer's market- since it is about the same price as WM for many things and is organic and supporting local farmers. Then buy what food you can't get there at WM if it really helps improve your budget, because as I said the food department is more of a "lure" than a profit. The only foods they're profitting from are the foods you might find at a gas station (chips, cookies, crackers, candy, pop). Even employees don't get a discount on the food because there isn't enough of a profit to offer it. Food (aside from what is listed above) has less than a 1% markup on average.

My thing is not so much boycotting as using your dollar as wisely as you can. Supporting WM by purchasing clothes, and stuff with a high profit margin will do far more damage than buying your food there and buying used clothes- which are still cheaper than walmart. I don't buy *ANY* organic or WAHM clothing. While I love it, I can't justify it. I'd honestly rather donate the money to a cause (sorry!) For me the best answer has been buying used. It is part of the 3R cycle, and cheap. Can't beat it!

Just know your products and do your best to spend your dollars wisely. Not long ago we went to WM and bought an electronics item. Of course we had the privilege of knowing that it was an advertised sale- a lure- that they were actually loosing 7.50 a unit on. So I don't feel bad at all since I cost them money :LOL

Also, I've been suprised at some of the options around here I never knew of. A local 7th Day Adventist church offers organic grains and dry goods and healthy foods at wholesale prices. They buy in bulk and pass on the savings. It is actually cheaper than walmart for organic stuff. For me it was about throwing myself out there and networking and finding these options. A local farmer sells me free range organic beef for DH at 3.86 a pound which is not much more than walmart.

I buy baking soda in bulk from the co-op and use it to clean, so I don't need all the cleaning things from WM anymore. I even wash my clothes in it- so that really saves us a lot of money!

For me, the idea of cutting WM all of a sudden was hard. I just slowly started making choices as a consumer that both saved me money and better spent my dollar until I no longer saw a need to go to WM. The slow transition worked for us. Shopping and out time is so much more enjoyable now. The shop owners and local farmers KNOW my and my kids and it is just friendly- comfortable and enjoyable.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

we shop there because we're on the loooooow end of the income scale, and like some of the other posters said, sometimes it's the difference b/n eating a meal or ramen. we don't have a yard to grow things. the closest farmers market is 25 miles away. i hate it, and i cringe every time we go there, and it makes me furious at myself, but we really can't afford to eat if we buy all our food from kroger or the hfs. stuff like emergen-c and hylands teething tabs is half of what it is in the hfs too, and though i'd much rather support the hfs, we can't do that right now. as soon as there's more money to work with, we'll be shopping elsewhere.


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

my farmer's market is about 30 miles away to- it's a PITA but I just try to do all my errands on the same day to compensate for the gas we're using.


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## flminivanmama (Nov 21, 2001)

well the food may seem like a loss leader and you may think Wal-Mart's not making much on it so what difference does it make... but think about the companies that supply wal-Mart with goods for that price

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html


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## Kinipela79 (Apr 8, 2003)

Interesting article...scary!!

I don't shop at Walmart but I have in the past. I would go through "I'm a horrible mother for making my family eat whole/organic/natural foods and for not buying my kids tons of plastic junk and I should shop at Walmart like a good mother" phase but I am pretty much over those now!! lol It's hard sometimes because I feel like such a freak for how we raise our family!! But that's a whole different thread isn't it!!

Oh - I make my own spaghetti sauce...just brown up some seasoned ground turkey (or beef...or skip this part if you don't eat meat!) and add one can tomato paste with 1 can water and mix it all around...you'll probably end up needing to add another half a can of water to get it to the right consistency. Then add some herbs and seasoning...whatever you like...basil, oregano, garlic powder (or just mince some garlic and add it to the browning meat.) black pepper, mushrooms...add whatever you want!! Just thought I would throw this in here!!!


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

I guess I don't have as much of a problem with that. Yes, they can cause damage to kraft, vlasic, and other corporate food wholesalers. but they are corporations who have their own skeletons in the closet. It cuts their profits by millions, and yet they're still above water with profits. I guess I'm not overly concerned about cutting profits of another large corporation- but rather concerned about spending locally as much as possible and spending money in corporations as little as possible.

Liek I said- to me it isn't a black and white boycott or not issue. It is about using each dollar as wisely as you can. I don't liek to give my money to companies like kraft, vlasic, betty crocker, etc any more than any other corporation.


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## flminivanmama (Nov 21, 2001)

well the point of the articlewas that vlasic did file for bankruptcy... but if you are not buying convenince prepackaged foods then I guess I really don't get why you feel you can only save money by shopping at walmart?


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## stayinghome (Jul 4, 2002)

Did I learn this here at MDC?

That Walmart makes enough money in one day to equal what Home Depot does in a year?

That astounds me...


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

Oh, we can't stand shopping at Walmart. Everyone we have been in skeeved us out (and we're talking about different ones in 3 different states). Dh said he felt like taking a shower after leaving there. Yuck.
Plus, we haven't found a big price difference between the local Walmart and Target. But then again, we don't buy much at either. We make our own cleaning products, personal products, reuse paper grocery bags for trash bags (if we forget out cloth bags), use cloth napkins and rags, cd, etc, so there isn't a lot we would get there. Occasionally we buy our pet products at Target if we're in a pinch (because it's so much closer than the where we typically get it). As far as food, the stuff we buy we can't get at Walmart anyways (we mainly the shop in the Natural/organic section at Ukrops or the hfs). It might be a little more expensive, but since we save money on food other ways (not eating out, not buying snack and junk food items, trying to stay away from a lot of prepackaged stuff, etc) I figure we're more than making up for it. We make our own sauce (personally I just like a touch of olive oil and garlic). We're lucky though, we have a nice farmers market every Saturday in town, along with a few other places.

But I also see how living in a smaller area, sometimes Walmart (or places like it) might really be the only place to shop. When you really don't have another option, what choice to you have? So I can see both sides of the coin.


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## Boobs (Apr 17, 2004)

Since our Kroger closed and we live in the sticks, it's Wal-Mart or a 30 minute drive to a Kroger that's really pricey. We don't even have a farmers market or a natural food store. There is a nasty little grocery store in town, but they don't even carry soy milk. They carry huge tubes of bologna for 88 cents! But no soymilk. It's a gross store that I don't go in unless I have to.

Tracie (deprived of options)


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## flminivanmama (Nov 21, 2001)

well that I understand - no other options (though how sad is that?)

but I just don't get the idea that one MUST go to walmart to shop ... other than the not having other options.... i guess i just don't see it.

I never go there so maybe I just don't know what I am missing


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## momsgotmilk4two (Sep 24, 2002)

I think that Kraft is owned by Phillip Morris so I'm *really* not concerned about thier profit margins.


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

I don't fla- I actually don't shop at walmart. I'm a farmers market and co-op kind of mama. For people who feel it is a must on their stops I like to point out which items walmart least benefit from as food for thought. Information for them to do with as they please.
My biggest issues with walmart are not in their dealings with other corporations but with other countries. So that is what I focus my energy on and the prospective I'm coming from. It is hard for me to feel sorry that the CEO of XXX corporation had to buy a 500,000 dollar house instead of a 2 mil house when there are children and adults working in unethical work conditions to manufacture the clothing WM, or target, or kohls are selling. Like I said before it is to me not about picking one store front and boycotting but rather choosing where you feel good spending your money. balance.


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## Kinipela79 (Apr 8, 2003)

Also remember that if Walmart is making it hard on *big* businesses then they are murder for the little ones!! We had a great little sandwich shop down town...Little Richard's...and a Quiznos moved in a couple doors down and LR's went out of business. I was so mad and I REFUSE to eat at Quiznos. I really want my dollars to stay in my community...that was my new year's resolution...to shop locally and not at the big corporations. I haven't done as good a job as I want to but every month I get better!


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## fourgrtkidos (Jan 6, 2004)

I understand if you *have* to shop at Walmart, you have to. And if you are on a tight budget.........

However, I am on a tight budget, too. I have been to Walmart once this year. My son had to have shorts for football practice at the last minute and I didn't have time to plan and save ahead - they were 20$ a pair everywhere we looked and 5$ at WM. So, Walmart got my 20$ plus tax.

I try shop mostly at family owned small businesses. I don't want WM to be the only choice. Wm is so notorious for running small business, out of business. So I support small businesses and our local coop, healthfood store and go to Publix when I need something not carried at Healthfood store.

Buying less, better quality definetly is better than buying more at low quality for cheap, IMHO.

-Michelle


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## magemom (Mar 5, 2002)

I avoid Wal-Mart because it is nuts. I never really thought about boycotting them. It is always packed when I can go and I hate waiting in lines. I do not buy clothes there. The closest grocery to us had prices 2-3x that of Wal-Mart. I am so thrilled that that grocery is pulling out of our area and has been sold to the local chain. THAT I will shop at most. I know Sam's club sin't that much better as it is a Wal-Mart entity, so I guess I am really guilty there.


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

As a end consumer in the American Empire it's almost impossible to live ethically. The youth in the developed countries doesn't want "low" jobs, they want superior diplomas that allow them profitable sophisticated careers. Production has to come from somewhere, and it comes from countries where people have no choice but to work hard.

It's not just Walmart. I wish it was that easy!


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leonor*
As a end consumer in the American Empire it's almost impossible to live ethically. The youth in the developed countries doesn't want "low" jobs, they want superior diplomas that allow them profitable sophisticated careers. Production has to come from somewhere, and it comes from countries where people have no choice but to work hard.

It's not just Walmart. I wish it was that easy!

Oh if I could ahve a penny for each time I argued this same point- I just gave up after awhile. ITA with you. This issue is so much deeper than walmart. When you buy a mass produced cheap item on ebay you are exploiting (or could be) the exact same people and ethics that WM are- just profiting a smaller middle man. That is totally what I mean by choosing where to spend your dollar wisely all around- rather than just picking the biggest and boycotting. it IS so much deeper than that.


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

I can understand if you have to shop at Wal-Mart because there are no other options in your community, and sadly that's becoming the case in more and more areas. But, I don't agree with anyone saying they HAVE to shop there because of their budget/income. We aren't in the 6 figures, heck, we are just barely in FIVE, and I haven't shopped there in years.

In fact, for food, what do they even have that is cheap that isn't processed to high heaven? We buy alot of grains, dried beans, and bulk foods. We use cloth instead of disposable diapeys, paper towels and napkins and menstrual products. We buy veggies and fruits at farmer's markets and a locally owned grocery store that sells produce, meats and dairy and that's it. It's almost like a green grocer, I guess. In the summer we pick pick pick and freeze or can. In fact, in the summer we eat very cheaply between gardening, foraging, farmer's markets/farm stands, and pick your own stuff.

That's jsut the food, though. For the other stuff we try very hard to not buy things we don't NEED. I feel better when the house isn't clogged with stuff, anyway. We buy used as much as possible. We borrow (and lend) if possible. If all else fails and it needs to be bought, we try to find local and if we need to spend a little extra it's not usually that big of a deal since it's not a common occurence. I just pretend Sprawl_Mart doesn't exist and isn't an option.

The one thing I've never had any luck finding anywhere other than big national chains is UNDERWEAR! Gah. When it's time to buy undies I will usually drop the $$ at Target over Wal Mart.


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow*
When you buy a mass produced cheap item on ebay you are exploiting (or could be) the exact same people and ethics that WM are- just profiting a smaller middle man.

I used Ebay because I thought I was buying used products from families. In many cases it still is, like old toys. Some are not and it's getting harder to tell.









Where do you usually shop from? And what? I want to learn, I haven't been very good fighting the system.


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Attila the Honey*
The one thing I've never had any luck finding anywhere other than big national chains is UNDERWEAR! Gah. When it's time to buy undies I will usually drop the $$ at Target over Wal Mart.

It's possible to live without underwear. If you wear trousers it doesn't feel comfortable but it feels good with long skirts.

(Wonders if people actually want to know this)


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## Persephone (Apr 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leonor*
It's possible to live without underwear. If you wear trousers it doesn't feel comfortable but it feels good with long skirts.

Unless you're fat, then you get thigh rub.







But sometimes I do it anyway.









Just so you know, I get my underwear at Fashion Bug. Not a small business, but smaller than WalMart. Buy 3 get 3 free this week!









I know what you mean about living ethically. I know in my head that when I get stuff at Target, it's still not ethical, but I'm just trying to do the best I can. I shop local small businesses and secondhand as much as I can. And I'm not rich, nor do I have a lot. It's about priorities.

How's this for a challenge? Dh has mutual funds (well, I guess they're mine now too...), but I don't know what companies are in them... I'm not sure if I want to know...







:


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## Bethla (May 29, 2004)

Years ago, I shopped at the WalMart that first opened up in our city. Then my husband and I saw the documentary "Store Wars, When WalMart Comes to Town" on PBS and I was banned from shopping there. Which was ok with me. I don't want to offend anyone that works there. I just believe that in the corporate world they are evil, not the everyday people who work there. Is it really necessary to spread through the entire country and even fight communities where most people don't want them there? And the cheap products they sell are a result of some person in a third world country working way too hard. Is it really worth saving $2 on something to be a part of something so evil? Your money could be better spent elsewhere. By continuing to shop there you are supporting this type of consumerism.


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## chicagomom (Dec 24, 2002)

I've become more conscious lately of the local impact of large stores that take my money and ship it out of my community. I try to shop at locally owned businesses wherever possible, and yes, do shop garage sales and the big school fundraiser clothing/toy sales for much of my and my children's clothing and toys. It's not a perfect system, but I think it's a start. I don't blame people who have to shop at Wal Mart (or work there), but do think they are parasitic on a community, and depress local wages.

I do some local charity work and have found that local businesses are much more likely to make donations, btw. The big chains all have their 'corporate giving programs' which constrain them from doing anything locally. There are some chains that are freer to support locally - they usually have a bulletin board with thank you cards from groups in the area. I feel better about visiting these - at least they give something back locally.


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leonor*
It's possible to live without underwear. If you wear trousers it doesn't feel comfortable but it feels good with long skirts.

(Wonders if people actually want to know this)










:LOL

I just don't feel comfortable without undies. I don't mean mentally/emotionally - I mean physically.

I have so many questions, some that probably shouldn't be asked...
Do you live in mortal fear of strong updrafts?


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## Kinipela79 (Apr 8, 2003)

OT. I am in a adult community choir (SHAMELESS PLUG: that my husband started and directs...check it out www.olympiachoral.org) and we did a concert recently where we wore choir robes and on a dare I didn't wear pants underneath...I was SO aware that I didn't have pants on and had to put them on at intermission!! LOL


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Attila the Honey*

I have so many questions, some that probably shouldn't be asked...
Do you live in mortal fear of strong updrafts?









LOL
I thought about that. I fear most kiddies crawling on the floor under me and then going "Mommy she has no panties".


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## corrie43 (Mar 9, 2003)

When your dh works there and you get a 10% discount on items like the vitamins you take everyday, it is very worth it FOR ME to shop at walmart. Someday when I am raking in the big dough...LOL, my dh can quit his job, and I will shop elsewhere.

I would love to support local stores, but not when they charge double what I can pay at walmart.


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

I don't wear panties- and I wear tied sarongs almost daily. Beat that :LOL


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## Leatherette (Mar 4, 2003)

I can walk a few blocks to get just about anything we need. Except underwear. Maybe the hemp clothing store has an itchy pair for $20 dollars.....we have a lot of cool independent stores here, but no coop within walking distance.

I don't like being in a Wal Mart. The visual effect leaves me cold. However, I haven't found them to be dirty. It's the whole "everything must be huge, big, and in mass quantities" mentality that scares me, beyond the ethics of where the products originate and how the employees are treated.

Because I live in the middle of a big city, I'd have to really make an effort to get to a Walmart, so I haven't seen one unless I have been traveling to see relatives, some of whom have no independent merchants near them and have to drive to big box stores to get anything.

I am learning about how to buy things from smaller companies online. But I am very tactile, so I like to touch what I am buying, especially if it's underwear. In the past I have bought underwear (only on massive sale!) from Victoria's Secret, who I hate for a billion reasons, or Target (which gives me about the same feeling of Walmart, but I know where things are and can be out in 10 minutes). I am actually on the verge of an underwear crisis, and want my next batch to be a little more socially conscious. But I don't like this trend of marking up "socially conscious" products to the point of making them inaccessible to many people. That strikes me as elitist and unethical too. I know some of it goes to pay everyone involved a better living wage, but the cynic in me thinks some of it is a mark-up just because it's trendy (like Whole Foods, etc.).

So where should I get quality PLAIN underwear? White, natural or black...... and going "commando" is not an option for me - but power to those who do. One less thing to worry about......

L.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

I'm just lucky to find underwear that fits my goddess sized body.


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## Persephone (Apr 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leonor*
LOL
I thought about that. I fear most kiddies crawling on the floor under me and then going "Mommy she has no panties".

Hee hee. For my wedding, my gramma gave me a blue ribbon to tie somewhere for my "something blue". I tied it on my garter. I told my aunt (my uncle's wife of that gramma) and she asked to get a pic of it. So I walk out to the middle of the dance floor, (in retrospect this was not the best place to take the pic







) and like, EVERYONE else there came to look at what was going on. I lifted up all the layers of dress (I wore a HUGE ballgown- no danger of revealing ANYTHING!) to show off my garter and blue ribbon, and this one little girl (about 2 or 3?) came and stooped down to look up my dress!! It was so cute!







We got pictures. When I get them back, I should put them online. It was so cute.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *corrie43*
I would love to support local stores, but not when they charge double what I can pay at walmart

See, the thing is, they HAVE to charge that much to compensate for the cost of the building, utilities, merchandise, taxes, and the credit cards, if they take them. They have to PAY for accepting credit cards! It's highway robbery! And grossly unfair to the small business owner. And that's before making a profit. I'll still support them, it's worth it even at that price.


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow*
I don't wear panties- and I wear tied sarongs almost daily. Beat that :LOL


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

Someone's got a very happy man on her hands then.







:


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

Easy access

Makes us both happy








:


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

I agree that Walmart is kind of the opposite of all the ideals of this board, but they are just that-ideals. None of us are perfect, some of us are better at this crunchy natural living stuff, or have been doing it a lot longer. But all of us are WORKING on it.

Do I hate the fact that I shop there sometimes? You bet. I also hate the fact that we have so much stuff, still feel like we need all kinds of stuff, aren't using more natural stuff more often...
but we are getting there. Slow but sure. It can't happen overnight, at least not for us.

Example:
We really want to switch to cloth diapers, for all they typical reasons. Long term savings, less waste, less chemicals, etc.. Hopefully I'll be able to get a start-up stash this month. But how will I come up with the money? By saving money at Walmart. I'll get our sposies there, and our cat litter, our batteries, and our food staples (not the produce though, yuck). That dollar or two savings here and there can really add up.

And then? Well then we'll be saving so much money by using cloth ($100/month) that I probably won't go there anymore. I'll have more leeway to shop conciously.

Am I making sense? Some of us shop there even though we don't like it because we have not yet gotten to the point of knowing where else to go, to the point of not needing the things they sell (like diapers, cleaners, etc..).
I hope I've managed to say what I wanted, because I think if I keep going I'll just confuse myself trying to be clear.


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## Jamie and Griffin (Jan 10, 2002)

For everyone who said they were unconcerned with the profit margins of other large stores/manufacturers such as Vlasic/Kraft, try extrapolating that. If you actually think that it is the CEO of a company taking it in the shorts when profits are down, you are wrong. It is the worker. Generally speaking, there is one fluid cost in manufacturing and that is labor. When profits are down, labor is the first thing to be cut - in the form of pay cuts, benefit cuts, or lay offs. So it is pretty easy to say you don't care if the CEO has to buy a cheaper expensive house but in reality s/he is still sitting pretty. The real impact of Wal-Mart's practices on manufacturers is felt by the workers.

Here's a question for you guys: what do you think will happen to the millions of people who are employed in manufacturing the United States when there is _no_ manufacturing work left in the United States? I see Wal-Mart's practices as a race to the bottom. The exodus of jobs from the U.S. is positively frightening. Pretty soon the majority of the people in the U.S. won't even be able to afford Wal-Mart.

Aside from the trade issues and the stifling constraints placed on manufacturers, just today a judge allowed a class action suit against Wal-Mart to go forward. What is the genesis of the suit? Discrimination against women







Judge Approves Wal-Mart Discrimination Suit


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

If women aren't discriminated against in Walmart, then why are all the pictures of the managers in all the stores I've been in men?

Things to make you go hmmmmmmmm?


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

Sorry, I can't feel to bad that Americans can't afford a nice house with a picket fence when there are people in sweatshops being beaten to make the products we mass consume. I'm just happy to live in a relatively humane country that gives me options of where I work and where I shop. I'm just stating where my priorities lie. To me it is all about consumerism, not boycotting walmart alone. boycotting one place doesn't (IMO) make an impact on a global level. Give up WM just to shop and target, and target will be our next big beef on the block. It is a cycle.
Defying consumerism all together though- slowly but surely- will end the cycle. That is all I'm saying. Big picture, you know?


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Well, we shop at CostCo so I hope that's a bit better?

No, really, I have gone to WalMart just a couple of times; ie. we were in desperate quick need of squirt guns yesterday. But, the big main reason I hate Walmart (besides their policies) is the person standing at the door as you leave checking to make sure you're not stealing anything. I'm sorry--I find that apalling. (sp?)


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

What I find more apalling than the one at Walmart is the one at the Great Canadian Superstore. You are told to put your bags in racks and leave them while shopping there. And they treat everyone as criminals. Nor do they offer any guarantee that your bag will be there when you get back.

The Walmart ones piss me off though. Just this month, the alarms went off as I went though and so I got dragged back and inspected to make sure I wasn't stealing anything.

The stupid thing is, when I went back through the doors, they didn't go off at all and nothing had been demagnatized. So either the doors were faulty, or someone was coming in with something that wasn't demagnatized.

The trippy thing that happened walking through those magnet stuff - I came into a book store with a book in my bag, dog eared and I had it for years. As I left the store, the stuff went off. I was like WTF? because I had just spent 100$ there. Apparently, the magnet thing in the book I brought into the store set off the alarms! And the guy at the "guest services" was quite perplexed because the book was obviously one that I'd had for a long while.

So, as soon as I get home now, I rip those things out as soon as possible, especially out of books.


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## hnybee (Sep 21, 2003)

I would much rather the $$$ go the a WAHM then wal-mart, but there are times that we buy one or two things there. But here is what REALLY irks me:

There is a BIG difference between occasionally shopping there and promoting/advertising for them!!

I can't stand when there is a thread about "where can I buy such and such?" and we get all these wonderful links to WAHMS that have great products wth one random ***** that says... oh, you can get that at wal-mart eisle three bottom shelf for $0.15!! That bugs the crap out of me. Please don't advertise for them. They make millions and can do it for themselves. When you plug for WM you are making the WAHMS of this world compete with them and that is just not right!!

-Melissa


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## Mommy2Brittani (Nov 7, 2003)

So um, what's wrong with Victoria's Secret? I buy my undies there (when they are on a DEEP sale) and noticed a previous poster mentioning that she wouldn't shop there...

I mean aside from the fact that Victoria doesn't really have a whole lot of secrets left....


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## fourgrtkidos (Jan 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow*
Sorry, I can't feel to bad that Americans can't afford a nice house with a picket fence when there are people in sweatshops being beaten to make the products we mass consume. I'm just happy to live in a relatively humane country that gives me options of where I work and where I shop. I'm just stating where my priorities lie. To me it is all about consumerism, not boycotting walmart alone. boycotting one place doesn't (IMO) make an impact on a global level. Give up WM just to shop and target, and target will be our next big beef on the block. It is a cycle.
Defying consumerism all together though- slowly but surely- will end the cycle. That is all I'm saying. Big picture, you know?


EXACTLY!!!!!!


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## fourgrtkidos (Jan 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hnybee*
I would much rather the $$$ go the a WAHM then wal-mart, but there are times that we buy one or two things there. But here is what REALLY irks me:

There is a BIG difference between occasionally shopping there and promoting/advertising for them!!

I can't stand when there is a thread about "where can I buy such and such?" and we get all these wonderful links to WAHMS that have great products wth one random ***** that says... oh, you can get that at wal-mart eisle three bottom shelf for $0.15!! That bugs the crap out of me. Please don't advertise for them. They make millions and can do it for themselves. When you plug for WM you are making the WAHMS of this world compete with them and that is just not right!!

-Melissa


Yes!!!! Again

















































We should all try to support small and family owned bussiness and WAHM. Do we want regional diversity or cloned urban sprawl with a Walmart on every corner..... ousting our diversity and small business because it can't compete? I personally don't want every town to look the same....... Walmart, Target, B King, Mc D's....... and I want choices and quality. When Walmart and other big name corporate monsters put small businesses out of business we do not have a choice but to shop there!


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## Leatherette (Mar 4, 2003)

My problem with Victoria's Secret is the image they sell and their pukey ad campaigns, like the ones with the angel wings. And doing an underwear fashion show on TV. And sending me catalog after catalog after catalog.

Don't know much else about them.

L.


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## Persephone (Apr 8, 2004)

Hey, if you want cheap underwear, make it yourself! Out of Tshirts!

http://supernaturale.com/howto/fibre...ies/index.html


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## CAmomto1 (Sep 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbow*
Defying consumerism all together though- slowly but surely- will end the cycle. That is all I'm saying. Big picture, you know?

Yes!!


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

Victoria's Secret uses prison labor. http://corpwatch.radicaldesigns.org/article.php?id=853

http://www.wpi.edu/News/TechNews/010...sonlabor.shtml


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## Persephone (Apr 8, 2004)

I think that using prisoners for labor is a good thing! They get to do something with their days, get a lil extra money for themselves or to send home, and get advantages for being responsible enough to hold down a job. I know that the guards don't always treat the prisoners right, and I don't agree with that, but I think it's great they have jobs!


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

Did you even read the second link I posted? Prisoners are not protected by federal safety or health guidelines and they make around 3 to 90 cents an hour (BEFORE they take out fees and fines!). That's acceptable to you because it gives them something to do?

http://kcd.com/goa/issues/2000/q1/Jail.htm


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

But according to the first link:

Quote:

The highly prized jobs pay minimum wage. Less than half goes into the inmate workers' pockets -- the rest is siphoned off to reimburse the state for the cost of their incarceration and to victims' restitution fund.
So, is it optional? Most minimum wage workers would not end up with anywhere near 1/2 their salary after col & debt. I'm not arguing for or against, just wanting clarification.


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

They screwed up. They are in jail for a reason. Instead of 4 blank walls, prisoners end up with TVs, the ability to get a trade or a diploma, health care, and more. For some low income people, prison is a lot better than being on welfare!

So, honestly, if they are earning a few pennies to help pay back their debt to society while they are in there, good for them.

They're supposed to be in prison, not a luxury hotel!


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## whateverdidiwants (Jan 2, 2003)

TiredX2 - yes, it's optional but those who don't want to work are often pressured in to it.

Mamid - Who said they're in a luxury hotel? They're still in prison, but they're working for slave wages with no grievance process. They're not paying back society, they're working for less than a dollar an hour to enrich *corporations*, and taking away jobs from union workers.Want to do the math and try to figure out how much profit Victoria's Secret makes on a bra using prison workers?

Forget it. It's just not acceptable to me, and if it's acceptable to you, go ahead and support those businesses.


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## Persephone (Apr 8, 2004)

I did read those articles.. well, skimmed them. But I know different, from personal experience.

My dad started a prison ministry to female sex offenders. Most of them are mentally ill (bipolar, usually). They screwed up, they're not inhuman. If they can take some responsibility, and work for even below minimum wage, and save their money, then I admire that. And I support that. Yes. I've known women in prision who take those jobs, and I've seen how it benefits them.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Walmart does not kill small businesses, but consumers do.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

Walmart does not kill small businesses, but consumers do.
But, Walmart does....

eat babies!


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## Kinipela79 (Apr 8, 2003)

Quote:

eat babies!








lol


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## Mamid (Nov 7, 2002)

let's see...

Prisoners get free room and board.

Free medical.

Free clothing.

Access to job training for free. All at the taxpayer's expense.

And you're saying that they shouldn't be doing something no matter how trivial to pay back society? So they don't earn minimum wage. If you look at what they do get vs what we have to pay for when we do work for minimum wage, they have it better than us!

We have to pay for food, medical, clothing, hydro, telephone, cable, rent/mortgage, and any other bills that pop up with what meager amounts of money we earn. Anything they make is completely in the clear and is comparable to the left over income after all the bills have been paid for. And they get educated without paying for that too?

If it was a third world labour that we're talking about, then I'd be all for boycotting X company, but this is prison labour.

I see it as Victoria's Secret and other companies giving these people training so that they can learn how to function in the outside world - if they get out. And if they can't ever get out, then its a way to occupy themselves and maybe earn a few extra pennies for "luxuries." So they aren't covered by the same employment rules and regs, do you really think a mass murderer should be? Or a rapist? Or a child molester? Or...


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## KoalaMama (Jan 24, 2004)

I'm with Mamid... No problem with this at all. Though I do think the corporations should be paying what equates to a fair wage, and should follow general employment standards. I just don't have a problem with the "system" getting the money. Consider it payment for room and board.

Now the issue of how many people are in jail and why is a totally different thing... Slippery slope if you make it so that the more workforce you have in jail the better it is for big business. Which is why I think costs and labour standards should apply, and that stuff needs to be monitored to ensure compliance.

Hey... new thread?


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

So...

1. You don't think there are sweatshops in the US? Apparently we have sweatshops here, just like the rest of the world.

It may be true that:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leonor*
The youth in the developed countries doesn't want "low" jobs, they want superior diplomas that allow them profitable sophisticated careers. Production has to come from somewhere, and it comes from countries where people have no choice but to work hard.

...but just wanting a "superior diploma" doesn't mean you get one, and there are many people in the US who have no choice but to work hard.

You need to rethink the US. We have tremendous inequality in income distribution. You think, "oh, in poor countries there are super rich people and people living on the street." Well, that's what my country looks like. Every year, the number of families who are homeless or hungry goes up. You might say, "The US is the richest country in the world." Well, so we are. What excuse do we have to have homeless children?

2. You think that everyone in prison is a murderer or a rapist?There are 2 million people in prison in the US. One in 75 men in the US is in prison. We have 1/4 of the world's prisoners in the US.

So now corporations can use prison labor and not have to pay minimum wage, or (potentially) follow other labor laws?

What is this, Stalinism?

Even if, as you are assuming, prisoners are sentenced absolutely fairly and deserve to be punished







(which I think is a BIG assumption) --

is it fair to the rest of the workers in this country to let corporations give their jobs to people who can't organize?

3. Do you really think that boycotting underwear is going to end sweated labor?







:


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## umbrella (Jul 25, 2002)

Quote:

Wal-Fart $1.00
Whole Foods $2.49
And those are the only two options? Seems like polar opposites to me. Surly there is something in between, such as a regular grocery store? OR, perhaps you could get canned tomatoes at whole foods, if that is really your only other option, and add your own spices at home. Making your own sauce doesn't take much longer than making the spaghetti itself, and the vast majority of that time is "simmer" so it's not like you're spending your evening slaving over the stove. Look beyond.


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## CharlieBrown (Jan 20, 2004)

i don't shop at wal-mart. i boycot it. i have seem what happens to small town america when wal-mart enters the picture. the whole town is turned upside down and small businesses DO go under.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Know what I hate?

Well, add this to the list:

People who, when I tell them I don't shop at Wal-Mart say, "Oh, you're too goooood to shop there, huh?"


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## magemom (Mar 5, 2002)

Why would I want to shop at a store that takes 20 minutes to park, 15 minutes to grab one gallon of milk and 20 more minutes to check out? Someone told me I was going at the wrong time, but I go shopping when I can go, and Wal-Mart is not where I want to spend my time.

In our town the small businesses were closing down because of the abortion clinic. They tended to be in the older section of town. The main road in had all the protesters of both sides, so folks (me included) would avoid that part of town on clinic days. Then Wal-mart came in and the local grocery owner died so his kids closed down the small store and that section of town has died. Very sad. Not all Wal-Mart's fault, but it sure didn't help.

It is very weird to talk to some employees. They seem so happy to be there and talk about how they are so well off now that Wal-Mart came in.


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