# Friend's 6 month old doesn't move his arms...



## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

A friend of mine and her 6 month old DS came over the other day and I hadn't seen them in a while and I was awestruck that her DS does not move his arms at all. They are like noodles at his sides. And, I noticed that his nails are freakishly long and it was before I noticed his non-moving arms, so I asked, "Wow, he doesn't tear himself to shreds with those?" and she said, "No, but I need to trim them, I hate trimming them." My DS would've torn his whole face off with those things! Some of them even had sharp points on the sides of the nail - yikes!

Anyway, she also told me that they still swaddle him at night. I just couldn't believe it because I would imagine that a 6 month old would definitely pry his way out of that thing. I held out a toy for him and he didn't reach for it either. It could've just been that he didn't want that toy at that time though.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Do you think there is any cause for alarm? I don't like getting into the comparison game, but this just seemed so glaring to me since my DS is the most wiggly, active baby ever.


----------



## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

SOMETHING doesn't sound right there - a 6 month old is usually very grabby.. hmm....


----------



## Debstmomy (Jun 1, 2004)

I agree....something is off. Abby is almost 6 months & she is always flapping away!!


----------



## lindsaye3 (May 15, 2007)

Was the child full term? If not, then it would be more normal, considering the adjusted age, etc. Otherwise it doesn't sound right. I just saw the pedi and he specifically said one of the things he checks with six month old children is if they grab for stuff. I can't imagine a child not moving his arms or not grabbing for stuff by 6 months old. Not to alarm your friend, but she really should see the dr on this. Of course, I am not sure how you should bring this back up with your friend, I guess that depends on how good a friend she is and how she is going to take the suggestion.


----------



## stik (Dec 3, 2003)

I agree that something sounds wrong there. At six months, babies should be reaching and grabbing. Noticing their hands and working out how to manipulate them is a crucial developmental stage. If your friend is a first time mom, she might not realize how alarming the absence of reaching and grabbing behavior is.

It's possible that the baby was tired, and is usually more interactive. But it still strikes me as alarming in a "call the pediatrician and start an evaluation for Early Intervention services" kind of way.


----------



## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

That definitely rings alarm bells for me.


----------



## bobbirs (Sep 27, 2006)

my DD just turned 6 mo and she is all about the hands!!! does she take him to a chyro? My DD didn't use her left arm much till I did...now they are all over the place....I hope he is okay!

Bobbi


----------



## SeekingJoy (Apr 30, 2007)

The LO should be grabbing by six months.

But, still swaddling at 6 mo seems within the range of normal. Some infants just feel more secure sleeping that way (my DS included







).


----------



## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

To the pp that asked about if the baby was full term - no, he wasn't. He was born about three weeks early via C-Section (not that that matters, I guess). I thought about the fact that he was early before I got too alarmed about her DS, but still, no arm moving at 5 months old is strange too. Is it just me or is 6 months old a little long to still be swaddling? I feel like that's contributing to the issue - if he isn't "allowed" to move his arms, maybe he doesn't know that he can??

Also, here's where I am trying to practice non-judgement, but it's really hard... my friend exclusively BF her DS until around two months or so when she wanted him to start sleeping through the night. So she started (and still does) giving him a big bottle of formula before bed every night. Also, she is back and work, so I don't really think they get a lot of play time with the little guy (which I imagine would help to make him more active/responsive). We went out to dinner with them and they put their DS in his car seat to the side of the table and literally did not interact with him at all during the entire meal. And the scary part is that he didn't seem to mind! She was also telling me that they don't think he's rolled over yet, but one time they thought maybe he did. Again, this was another red flag. Also, they vaccinate (but not that that means it's related).

Sadly, I don't think they are too worried about it. She told me that her ped told her that he should be batting at toys more, so she said, "Yeah, we're working on it," but it sounded pretty minor and what I saw was not minor. They are pretty disconnected as parents (IMO), so I don't think they look around and realize that other babies are moving much more. And again, since they are working and still have very busy social lives (without DS), I don't think they really see that many babies to even compare it to. Perhaps if she joined some kind of Mommy and Me class maybe she'd realize something's not right. But unfortunately, instead of doing some kind of baby class with her DS on her day off, she goes to her personal trainer to help her get toned. Sometimes it's so hard TRYING to practice non-judgement.

If she were a really good friend, I might think about how to nicely, subtly talk to her about it, but she's one of those friends who I don't enjoy anymore. She is pretty disconnected to emotions and conscious parenting (IMO, again), so I find it hard to be close with her.

For those of you that agreed that this situation raised an eyebrow, what do you think it could be?


----------



## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Something is really wrong here. This child should be all over the place. Grabbing, chewing on toes etc.

I'm also concerned about the for lack of a better word, conern from your friend. Something sounds off there too.


----------



## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

a 6 month old not moving his arms is a serious red flag for motor delay. what caused it is anyone's guess. he could have cerebral palsy, or some type of syndrome. this goes beyond swaddling, detachment parenting or lack of opportunities to move. your description of his arms being like noodles sounds troublesome, does it seem like his arms are excessively stiff or more limp?

this little one really needs to get evaluated, asap.


----------



## stik (Dec 3, 2003)

I understand that you have issues with your friend's parenting style. I don't think the issue you describe could be caused by parenting style.

Lots of babies like to be swaddled, even at 6 months. I can recall asking my mom to swaddle me at age 5. Not frequently, but from time to time. Also, I have yet to meet the swaddle that a baby couldn't escape from if they felt like it.

A lot of babies don't roll at 6 months. So if it weren't that the baby isn't grabbing at toys, that wouldn't concern me at all.

What this sounds like to me is a serious, serious problem. This is not, IMO, the kind of problem that is caused by baby buckets or infant formula or a parental tendency to be self-centered. This sounds like a serious developmental delay. Is the baby smiling and interacting? Because that would be another potential indicator of how serious this problem is.

With the mom not seeing a lot of other babies to compare to, it might be a nice thing for the baby if you put aside all your judgmental feelings about the situation (because while your friend might be a crap mom by some standards, she's probably a just fine mom by others and whether she's a good mom or not isn't what the issue is here) and told the mom that you're very concerned about her child's unresponsiveness - most babies notice their hands around 2 months, and bat at things shortly afterwards. Then strongly suggest that she talk to her child's doctor about it. A lot of doctors take their cue on developmental issues from parents - if mom isn't worried, the doctor won't be either because they assume mom will notice if something is wrong, especially if the baby is "behind" other babies.

So don't worry about being gentle or tactful, just say, "I'm worried about your baby. His arms seem limp and he's not playing. That can be a sign of serious problems, but there are great early therapies for a lot of stuff these days. Did you know you can get him evaluated for free?" She might be offended, but hopefully she'll look into it.

I think this could be anything from temporary fatigue (baby is tired, mom's not describing his behavior well) to vision impairment (baby isn't seeing things to bat at) to a serious neurological problem (baby can't track objects, and/or has extreme gross motor difficulty and can't coordinate movement of arms).

While I'm online giving advice, I'm going to add this -

It's OK to not enjoy your friend's company right now. And it's OK to not socialize with her frequently. And it's OK to seek out others whose philosophy meshes better with your own. It's also important to remember that the world is small, and there are not an infinite number of people out there to be mom-friends with. You already have this one. She doesn't appear to be actively malicious towards you or anyone else. She might come in handy some day. We all have our failings - be kind to her as you would yourself.

It's important to me that I point this out because from your brief description, it sounds like she might be struggling with PPD, and whether she is or not, if my baby wasn't socially responsive and wiggly and arm-waving at 6 months, I'd feel pretty crappy and detached no matter what parenting strategies I was using.


----------



## nylecoj (Apr 24, 2007)

I agree that it sounds like something is really off with this baby.


----------



## cicely_m (Jan 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stik* 
I understand that you have issues with your friend's parenting style. I don't think the issue you describe could be caused by parenting style...

This sounds like a serious developmental delay.

Yes.
Exactly.
Now, I am just reading what you have reported; I have not seen the baby and don't know what he's like most of the time. But I am an Early Intervention provider (for speech, but still...) and I know that if I saw that child I would get him an Occupational Therapy and Physical Therapy eval right away. If the child's arms really are limp at his sides, that is _*seriously*_ worrying. I second the recommendation to advise her to get help. ASAP.


----------



## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

As I remember, and we only saw them for a few hours (one of which he was in the car seat), his arms were limp, not stiff. And, I think that he maybe bent them a few times - I don't think they were completely lifeless the whole time, but lifeless enough that I noticed it (and my husband did too).

The other thing that I just thought of is that when my friend's DS was around 3 months old, she said, "When are they able to focus on stuff and not have that weird eye thing?" I really didn't know what she was talking about because my DS was wide-eyed from the moment he was halfway out of me (seriously, underwater staring at everyone). At the time, I thought it was because he/they had been anesthesitized during the C-Section or just because he was born early, but now I'm wondering if there isn't some sort of vision problem like some pp's have suggested.

And no, he's not really engaging at all. My friend described him to me as "super smiley" before they came up that day, but I only saw him semi-smile once. He was like a little lump, sadly. Again, it could've just been the day though. I know my DS is sometimes a laugh a minute at home and then, like that frog on the Warner Bros. cartoons, he clams up and only says, "Ribbit," to other people.

It will so heartbreaking is something is wrong. I hope it's really just an overreaction on my and my husband's part. Maybe because our DS is so active we have unrealistic expectations for other babies? And, there is really no way I can suggest her getting him looked at without seriously damaging our friendship. She's not one of those people that would appreciate a "helpful" comment like that. And, she is all about how she and her baby look (you should see his outfits, he wears layers... layers for fashion), so I know if I were to say anything, it would embarrass her and she would probably become defensive and tell me that I think I know everything since we did so many things out of the norm (home birth, no vax, no circ...) I think the only way I could say anything is if I asked her how things are going with working on the batting at toys skill. If she says that there hasn't been improvement, I could suggest seeing a specialist, but again, I feel like she'd think, "Who are you to tell me something might be wrong with my baby?" And really, I don't know if my 3 hours with him is enough to base anything real on.


----------



## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

Yikes, I'd be really worried.

I'm not sure how you could bring it up in a non-judgemental way. Maybe if you found an article about infant development for six month olds and casually gave it to her, "oh, I found this article I thought you might be interested in. I didn't read it, but I see that it's about 6 month olds, so I thought of you."


----------



## stik (Dec 3, 2003)

Just start a conversation. It's all you can do, but don't let it go undone, you know? The baby needs help, the sooner the better.


----------



## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stik* 
Just start a conversation. It's all you can do, but don't let it go undone, you know? The baby needs help, the sooner the better.

If I do and it comes up that she is worried about her DS, where would I tell her to get an evaluation? Is that something that she would do through her ped or a specialist? It seems like her ped has dropped the ball already.


----------



## seawind (Sep 28, 2007)

Sounds worrisome to me. Bring it up in a way that shows that being her friend, you care and are concerned about the baby's well-being. Also, bring the perspective of your own experience with your children.

Unrelated,but i noticed you point out her having had a c-section birth while mentioning the issue of lack of focus. So many of my friends with the same birth experience haven't had that problem at 3 months. Like a PP said, don't focus on the C-section, FF while making your personal evaluation of the problem.

I do hope the mother takes this seriously and gets her baby examined ASAP.


----------



## luminesce (Aug 6, 2006)

I think your concern is well-founded. Something definitely sounds wrong if his arms were that limp. I'd be worried about such marked hypotonia being an indicator of cerebral palsy. My little man is six months old and is grabbing for everything. He's all arms at times. Flap, flap, grab, grab -- hair, glasses, toys, water glass... all over the place. I can't imagine him sitting with arms limp. Heck, even in the middle of the night when he is half asleep and I've gotten up to change him, he can be all arms.

If it were me, I think I'd approach her very seriously and tell her the depth of your concerns. I'd skip the approach of 'How's the batting the toy thing going?' and just lay it out -- risk the friendship. It might be the only way to get her attention. I think it is worth it. If she knows you are so laid back about other things (home birth, no vax, no circ, etc.) then she should realize that your suggestion for medical intervention is serious. If nothing else, you may make her upset enough for her to tell others in the 'Can you believe my friend thinks there is something wrong with my baby?' sorta way. That might make someone else who has concerns but also not said something to pipe up and say, 'Well, you know... she may be right.' I agree with PP that you should focus only on this issue and not bring up other parenting concerns at this point.

I know at the Family Practice I go to that they have staff members who specifically evaluate little ones who are at risk or show signs of delay and monitor their progress. But I seriously question the value of the ped and the practice she is currently visiting at this point!


----------



## HappyFox05 (Apr 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 

Sadly, I don't think they are too worried about it. She told me that her ped told her that he should be batting at toys more, so she said, "Yeah, we're working on it," but it sounded pretty minor and what I saw was not minor. They are pretty disconnected as parents (IMO), so I don't think they look around and realize that other babies are moving much more.


I don't know...that would disturb me & I'm not even a mom yet, and have hardly had any dealings w/babies up to this point in my life.


----------



## BookGoddess (Nov 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
If I do and it comes up that she is worried about her DS, where would I tell her to get an evaluation? Is that something that she would do through her ped or a specialist? It seems like her ped has dropped the ball already.


She could call Early Intervention herself. Her doctor doesn't have to refer her. EI is a federally funded program which is available in all states. They provide physical therapy, speech therapy, and all sorts of other therapies for infants to 36 months. The EI program may be run by the State Department of Health or other similar agency. The services are usually free and the providers come to the home. EI also helps parents to increase their knowledge about and ability to support their child's development and it sounds like this child's parents could use that support. I don't know where your friend lives but if you provide the state perhaps we can find the EI contact information so that it's easier for her to take this first important step.


----------



## nummies (Jun 9, 2007)

Just wanted to give a real-life example of this...

When my brother was born he looked and acted like a normal babe. Around the two month mark we noticed that he wasn't moving his right arm. My mom had had 5 other children before him so she thought this was pretty strange but she knew that he was still small so she let it go. A couple of months passed and he still wasn't moving that right arm. It would just lay limp at his side. He was evaluated and through months of testing it was determined that he had a stroke in utero that affected his entire right side. Thankfully he started on therapy at 6 months and did great! He just started kindergarten this year, plays baseball, and is able to use his arm at almost normal fuction. I really feel that the therapy at an early age helped him greatly. I would risk losing the friendship and just say "You know, I know that I would be upset if someone said this to me...but as your friend I noticed...." She is a first time mama that may not notice. Good luck!


----------



## gillibean (Nov 28, 2006)

I know it's sometimes hard to bring things like this up with people. I think it's important to realize that this baby will one day be older, going to school and then becoming an adult. With so many developmental issues like this it's much better to address them early rather than waiting. What can be accomplished in months at a young age can take years at an older age.

While she may not appreciate your help now she may in the future.


----------



## happy2bamama (Apr 29, 2006)

Thanks for all of your advice and posts. I'm not sure yet what I'm going to do about this (if anything). I think my next step might be to set up another play date with her and her DS so I can watch him a little more and see if he's still not moving - maybe that day she was over was just a mellow day for him. And, I also think it would be a lot easier to take if someone was sitting with your child and making a comment like, "I notice that he doesn't move his arms..." rather than calling and saying it. And, to the pp who suggested I don't comment on her parenting style, I had no intention of doing so. If she ever asked me my opinion on things, I'd tell her, but I'm not going to force my point of view on her. She has to do what's right for her (even if I might think it's less-than-good parenting). And I think you guys are right that it's probably not the parenting that has made him immobile.

I hope this little guy is okay and that he was just having a quiet day with us.


----------



## nylecoj (Apr 24, 2007)

I agree with what some other people have said here. *I* had a c-sec and my baby, like yours was alert and wide-eyed from the get-go.

It sounds like this baby is really behind developmentally. That child has a much better chance if these delays are addressed earlier rather than later.

Even if you go out on a lark, and everything is fine, and your friend is angry, better than that a baby who wasn't treated early enough.

She might be completely aware of things and in denial because she's afraid, which means she needs someone to step up and say, "Hey, this isn't normal."

Sorry that person is you.


----------



## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

I've had two c-sections, both of my kids were wide eyed and ready to go.

I guess what concerns me about this situation is it a delay or is there some underlying issue?


----------



## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

This time, at the playdate that you set up, very soon, pick the baby up and play with him. He should be able to play. Perhaps he's blind as well as whatever other neurological issues he might have? I think it sounds as if there is definitely something going on, not just maybe, but definitely.


----------



## can't wait (Aug 6, 2006)

I agree, it sounds like something just isn't right. My BF had a babe 7 weeks ahead of me and was showing symptoms something like you describe....very little movement in one arm. I thought it wasn't a big deal, that maybe he was just right handed or something and was favoring that arm. Turned out, after lots of testing that he has cerebral palsy, which of course is so very traumatizing to hear, but HUGELY beneficial to know for early intervention's sake. I probably wouldn't directly suggest to anyone that their child has something like that, but I would probably find a way to at least ask some questions and try to empathically suggest a visit to the baby doc to check things out. Just my two cents.


----------



## MotherWhimsey (Mar 21, 2005)

okay, I have a totally differant perspective. As the mother of a special needs child (who didn't use his entire side till he was seven months much at all) I can see a different way.

Lets say I was going out with someone who was super mainstream. And lets say that I knew she would think all these judgemental things if I told her what we were doing with my son. I'd probably not mention it cause I didn't want to hear one more person tell me how to deal with it. So sometimes when people ask about my son or his eating or whatever, I just say "oh, things are going great!" cause by my definition they are, they just aren't nessicarily what she would say was great.

And strabismus (that funky eye thing) is normal for a loooong time. Most doctors don't worry about it unless it affects the vision. If it's just strabismus they may just follow it up until five years of age I was told. My son had it till four or five months.

and swaddling can be totally normal for a six month old. I mean how much reaching for toys does your kid do while sleeping? especially if the baby has some kind of neurological problem or hypotonia. AP is about doing what's best for your child and if that's the way her baby is most comfortable sleeping then that's what she should do. I slept with my dd in my arms, just about as restricting, and I did it for two and a half years and she's just fine.

If there is something wrong with her child, she may know it, or she may be in denial. But either way she needs support, not someone telling her what's wrong with her child and how to go about helping the baby. If someone who wasn't my husband, mother or best friend, or at least someone else with a special needs baby tried to tell me how to deal with it, I would either cut them out of my life, totally distance myself, or loose it on them. The best way to get something done if there is something wrong, is to support her, befriend her and listen to her. any other way you approach it might make you feel like you've done your duty but won't help the baby. Or offer to watch the baby while she takes a break and do therapy with him then. But really, "doing" something about it is probably not going to work, if you just go in saying "I think your baby has a problem and I think he needs therapy." The most I would say right now is something like "why doesn't he use his arms?" or something else like that, that gives her a way to back out, then drop it if she doesn't go with the topic.
ultimately it's her baby. It's sad if she's not very attached to him, and sad if there is something wrong. But that might all be jumbled together. Maybe she's having a hard time attaching cause she knows there is something wrong. who knows. Yes it's sad, but unless you are very good friends, then it's likely that your involving yourself will do no good. So just be careful with her. I'm sorry I'm being harsh about it, but I've had people telling me how to deal with my sons problems for ten months now and it just gives you a whole new perspective on the "I think something is wrong with my friends baby, what do I say?" threads.


----------



## cicely_m (Jan 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happy2bamama* 
If I do and it comes up that she is worried about her DS, where would I tell her to get an evaluation? Is that something that she would do through her ped or a specialist? It seems like her ped has dropped the ball already.

Around here, the pediatricians usually refer the parents to Early Intervention. Try telling her she should tell her ped she is worried, or (if she won't do that), ask her ped to "check and make sure the baby seems on target with his motor skills, so she knows she has nothing to worry about."

Other than that-- I don't know where you live, but if you google "early intervention" and your state, you'll get contact information.


----------

