# My mother says he's spoiled... is she right?



## npd (May 28, 2007)

My mother, who visits twice yearly for about a month, informs me that I am spoiling my 2.5 yo DS (youngest of three). Her examples:

2.5yo DS is playing in the living room, pretending to be an eagle, accidentally hits 6yo DD while 'flying' by. I comfort 6yo DD, tell 2.5yo DS that I know it was an accident but he hurt DD, say that it would be nice to give her a hug and say he's sorry. Often he will apologize, this time he said 'no, I am being an eagle', and continued flying. I hugged DD, told her I was sorry she was hurt, and sat and snuggled with her while she continued doing what she was doing (reading). After a few minutes, with no further request, he came over and said he was sorry, and hugged her. She thinks he should have to say he's sorry, and that if he doesn't there should be a consequence.

Another example - Supper is ready. 2.5yo DS is playing in the library. I go and tell him that dinner is ready and ask him to come to the table. He doesn't respond right away, so I ask him if he'd like to be an airplane and fly to the table. He jumps up and I 'fly' him to the table, put him on his chair, and sit in mine. Without another word, he gets up, goes back to the library, continues playing. As he's leaving, I ask him to stay and eat, he doesn't answer. I finish my supper, as does the rest of the family, we clear the table (not his plate). A half an hour later, he asks if he can have his supper, I warm it up, he eats it in his chair. She thinks I should make him stay at the table.

Third example - 2.5yo naps during the afternoon, which he never does anymore. At his usual bedtime, he is not at all tired (which I expected), so we don't start bedtime until an hour later. (I think she thinks I should make him go to bed on time regardless). Same thing if he's up through the night - if he wakes up completely for some reason, it can take him 45 minutes of quiet snuggling or BF with me to settle back down. She thinks that at this age, that shouldn't be necessary.

One more example - 2.5yo, again at the table, is intentionally dropping banana pieces on the just-cleaned floor. I ask him not to, as the banana will be dirty and he won't be able to eat it. He continues, and tells me he is making a picture. I tell him that if he doesn't stop, I'll have to take the banana as I don't want him to waste the food. He doesn't, so I do take it away. After lunch, he helps me clean up the banana and I give him some paper and wax crayons to draw a picture. She thinks there should be a punishment, and thinks that the crayons and paper could be seen as a reward. I see it as redirecting his need to be creative at that point.

Opinions, please??

2.5yo DS is very active at this age, and we try and pick our battles... though I don't like to call them battles. It is true that he is my last baby. Am I parenting differently as a result? I hope not. I hope that the only effect is that I treasure all of these moments all the more. I guess I need reassurance that I am NOT crazy, and that these techniques do NOT spoil a child.


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

Sounds like you and your kids have a good groove going. If you started doing what your mom suggested you'd just have a power struggle on your hands.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Personally - I would handle those situations differently. But I don't think what you're doing is wrong, either. I'm somewhere between you and your mom.

1 - I do force appologies and would have sent him to 'calm down' in his room until he was ready to say sorry.
2 - If DS is not hungry then he doesn't have to eat with us. But I wouldn't have given him his dinner half an hour later. If you're not hungry.. then you're not hungry. So I would have offered a snack instead.
3 - Agree with you on the bedtime thing.
4 - I would have taken the banana away with no warning b/c at that age DS knew he wasn't to throw stuff on the floor. I probably would have given him the crayons afterwards though. I don't think it needed any more punishment or anything.


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## JessicaTX (Jul 9, 2006)

The only thing I would do different is scenario #2. When we eat together as a family, we sit together until everyone is done. Even if someone isn't eating they will sit at the table and take part in the conversation.


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## npd (May 28, 2007)

D_McG said:


> Personally - I would handle those situations differently. But I don't think what you're doing is wrong, either. I'm somewhere between you and your mom.
> 
> 1 - I do force appologies and would have sent him to 'calm down' in his room until he was ready to say sorry.
> 
> ...


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## mosdata (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D_McG* 
Personally - I would handle those situations differently. But I don't think what you're doing is wrong, either. I'm somewhere between you and your mom.

1 - I do force appologies and would have sent him to 'calm down' in his room until he was ready to say sorry.
2 - If DS is not hungry then he doesn't have to eat with us. But I wouldn't have given him his dinner half an hour later. If you're not hungry.. then you're not hungry. So I would have offered a snack instead.
3 - Agree with you on the bedtime thing.
4 - I would have taken the banana away with no warning b/c at that age DS knew he wasn't to throw stuff on the floor. I probably would have given him the crayons afterwards though. I don't think it needed any more punishment or anything.


These would pretty much be my same responses - and yes, even if he did this accidently I would make him say sorry (#1).
As far as #2, getting up from the table would not have been an option. Dinner at our house is served at one time only - unless someone can't be there (school, work, emergency, etc), and my children have always been aware of that.
For #4, I would probably give 1 warning and then would take the banana away.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Even if it was an accident, yes. I also force please/thank you. It's just common courtesy. If you hurt someone, you say sorry. Intentional or not.

I get your point about dinner. Although it sounds like he probably was hungry if he ate 30 minutes later. I guess I wouldn't think much about it if it only happened one time. But if it continued to happen then I would have a snack time (before bed) and no food b/w your dinner time and that snack time.


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## syn_ack89 (Oct 1, 2007)

He doesn't sound spoiled to me.


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## labdogs42 (Jan 21, 2009)

I think you are doing a great job. I would probably handle those situations in the same way that you did. I don't force apologies, I don't force sitting at the table and cleaning your plate, etc. Your mom is just from a different generation. I'd nod and then ignore her "advice".


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I would have handled everything just like you did. Some people define "spoiled" as "doesn't do exactly what you want immediately when you want it." I call that "being a different person."


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## Just Elsa (May 18, 2009)

I don't think spoiled is the right word. I would say you require a much lower level of obedience than I do, but that's your choice and one that impacts you, not me. I absolutely could not tolerate some of that behavior, but I accept that I am not a particularly patient and easy-going person.







If you're comfortable with the precedent you're setting and can live cheerfully with the results, that's what really matters here.


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## Artichokie (Jun 19, 2007)

Well, i disagree with your parenting approach, but idk if i would call it spoiling.

1. it is common curtousy to acknowledge someone when you injure them. It is part of learning to share space with other ppl.

2. we sit together as a family to eat.

3. no issues with this one.

4. we do not play with food. And if i tell her to stop, i expect her to stop. you took away the banana - that was the consequence. He helped you clean it up after lunch, so idk why you would continue to punish him per your mom - the crayons make sense to me.


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## my3peanuts (Nov 25, 2006)

I agree with you except for scenario #2. You asked him to come back to the table and he didn't. You ignored the fact that he didn't even seem to hear you. I would not have made his dinner for him an hour later. If I let my kids eat whenever they want I'd be making 4 dinners!


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

I would have done things differently on a couple, too....

1. Hurting others, even accidentally, warrants an apology in our family (and in most cases in society as well). How awful for your DD to be accidentally hurt and then ignored by her brother. Let me ask you this - would you have let it pass if your DD was the one to accidentally hurt your DS and wouldn't apologize because she was in the middle of something else? Would you have left her to her own accord until she came back and did it later? I wouldn't have....but that's just what I think is reasonable.

2. My biggest thing with this one is that you asked him to stay and eat, and he walked off and ignored you. In our house, kids stay at the table and we eat as a family. And I don't tolerate being ignored when I'm speaking to someone. I also would not have reheated and served the food later - at that point all I offer for hungry bellies before bedtime is a peanut butter sandwich.









3. Wouldn't have changed a thing. I don't see your mom's concern with this one. ???

4. I would have taken the banana away & made him clean the mess after the _first_ warning. Then I still would have given him the crayons and paper later anyway, because taking the banana away and cleaning was the punishment.

That's it!









At least with these other perspectives, you can see where your mom is coming from. But regardless, they are YOUR kids and no one else's.


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## syd'smom (Sep 23, 2008)

hmmmm...I think you are doing great (and I too have a 2.5yo). I think his apology later has MUCH more meaning than anything you could have forced/punished out of him.

I'd be pretty ticked if I wasn't hungry and my husband refused to let me eat in a little while when I was actually hungry. We do try to have our evening meal as a family, but I also have to respect my daughter and realize she's only 2 and can't sit and chat the way I can.









I've never been able to force my daughter to nap/sleep. I've tried. She sleeps when she's ready (and she is a night owl like me!)

I'm guessing he likes getting reactions when dropping food on the floor? Luckily, dd doesn't really do this (knock on wood) but taking the food away and having him help clean it up seems like a great plan.

Good luck, mama; I think you're doing well!


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## npd (May 28, 2007)

Thanks for all the feedback and support... it helps to hear different perspectives. I should clarify that I do require please and thank you, and do encourage I'm sorry, but don't punish if my 2.5 yo isn't forthcoming with it. I just feel it's worth more when it's genuine. I do agree that apologies for even accidental injury are necessary to navigate society... which is why he doesn't navigate it alone at this age I guess!








adding to last post... (was distracted for a minute)

Really that's not the point though - what I'm trying to do is get him to the point that he says he's sorry because he IS. And he WAS, and did aplogize, which I knew he would, within a few minutes. He just needs to do things on his own terms. In retrospect though, maybe I could have removed him from the living room as a consequence of not being able to play eagle without hurting others? Still seems like a bit of a stretch to me... what do you think?


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## mama_daba (Dec 7, 2004)

i think you are doing great and i agree with pp he apology he did on his own later was so much more meaningful than a forced apology.


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## npd (May 28, 2007)

THANK YOU







We followed the same approach with suppertime with our other two kids (now 7 and 6 yo)... gradually requiring more of them as they got older. The trick is judging what they're capable of at a given age, I think.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

#2- I would have had him sit with us. Here, we eat meals as a family. If you're not hungry, you don't have to eat, but if you get hungry later, you get an apple, not dinner.

#4- You had him clean it up with you, which seems like the natural consequence to me. I don't see why punishment would have been necessary.


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Saying the OP requires a "lower level of obedience" seems like a judgment to me. I'd say she's very in tune with her children.








It all sounds great to me. Yeah, it's nice to eat together as a family, but I'm not willing to sacrifice *everyone's* mealtime for this. Sometimes I'm not hungry either.


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## maryeb (Aug 8, 2005)

I think it sounds like you are doing well! I agree with the poster that you guys have a groove and to employ your mom's ideas would create battles. He sounds like my guy, that is how we handle things, it is working out fine. He apologized on his own afterward, right? He did it when it was meaningful...something I think is important. And the eating thing, well, if he is keeping himself busy and not ready to sit down, I would not make a huge deal out of it as he is only 2.5. He has time to grow into the ability to sit for longer periods of time. I would not have held out on dinner for him either, leaving his plate out is fine, imo.


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## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

I don't think you're spoiling him at all. I think I would probably handle most situations similar to how you handled them. My dd is close to your son's age she's 2y4mo. I never force apologies (though my husband tries to sometimes) so in the first situation I really just would have emphasized how the other child was feeling, but I probably would have sent him to play eagle somewhere else, because he obviously wasn't able or willing to be concerned for others at that moment.

I actually think the second situation was fine. Frankly I'd rather let the child eat the food that I already served up on the plate for him than prepare a totally different snack for him later. I don't make dd come to the table or stay at the table, maybe when she's older, but frankly I don't want a battle when I'm trying to eat my food. If she tries to get me to do something for her while I'm eating I say no, but if she's happy playing, I'm happy to eat dinner with dh in peace. My only rule is that once the bedtime routine starts, eating time is over. It might have bothered me that my child was ignoring me when I was talking to him though. In that case I would have just gone after him and told him that he doesn't have to come eat if he's not hungry, but I expect him to acknowlegde me we I talk to him. Then I might give him an appropriate answer to say back to me "I'm not hungry now I'm busy playing"

In the third situation I think it's totally normal to let a child stay up a bit extra if you know they've napped more or later than usual. Bedtimes should be somewhat flexible in my opinion. You can't force an untired child to sleep and if you still nurse the child or lay with them until they fall asleep than you're just making more work for yourself if you try to put them to bed before they're ready.

In situation 4 I think you handled it just fine. The consequence of throwing banana is losing the banana and helping to clean it up. The crayons were a way of redirecting his creative energy which is something that should be honored.

Everyone has different ideas on what constitutes spoiling I think. If you find ds generally pleasant to be around and you're happy with the family dynamic than he isn't spoiled.


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## holothuroidea (Mar 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *npd* 
My mother, who visits twice yearly for about a month, informs me that I am spoiling my 2.5 yo DS (youngest of three). Her examples:

2.5yo DS is playing in the living room, pretending to be an eagle, accidentally hits 6yo DD while 'flying' by. I comfort 6yo DD, tell 2.5yo DS that I know it was an accident but he hurt DD, say that it would be nice to give her a hug and say he's sorry. Often he will apologize, this time he said 'no, I am being an eagle', and continued flying. I hugged DD, told her I was sorry she was hurt, and sat and snuggled with her while she continued doing what she was doing (reading). After a few minutes, with no further request, he came over and said he was sorry, and hugged her. She thinks he should have to say he's sorry, and that if he doesn't there should be a consequence.

Identify with your little boy here. Eagles don't apologize!!! So, when he was done being an eagle he was ready to apologize. haha

This is not that big of a deal, maybe if it were someone else's kid and they were seriously injured a forced apology MIGHT be appropriate, but not in this situation. If it's not a genuine apology, you may as well say nothing, IMO.

Quote:

Another example - Supper is ready. 2.5yo DS is playing in the library. I go and tell him that dinner is ready and ask him to come to the table. He doesn't respond right away, so I ask him if he'd like to be an airplane and fly to the table. He jumps up and I 'fly' him to the table, put him on his chair, and sit in mine. Without another word, he gets up, goes back to the library, continues playing. As he's leaving, I ask him to stay and eat, he doesn't answer. I finish my supper, as does the rest of the family, we clear the table (not his plate). A half an hour later, he asks if he can have his supper, I warm it up, he eats it in his chair. She thinks I should make him stay at the table.
I have to agree with your mother on this one. This is something that I would not tolerate. We are a family, and we eat together, end of story.


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

I think you're doing great! Keep up the good work.
All these things are important (apologizing, eating together as a family, not playing with food etc.), but at 2.5 he's still learning. I wouldn't expect an instant reaction from a 2.5 y/o on these issues.
At 4 or 5, it's another story...


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

Quote:

#2- I would have had him sit with us. Here, we eat meals as a family. If you're not hungry, you don't have to eat
Family togetherness is important to us; eating for the sake of eating whether or not you're hungry, not so much, so I'd agree with this poster.

Maybe both you *and* your mother are right. In her mind, if she was required to a meet a stricter standard, he's "spoiled" in the sense that he has an easier go of it. Spoiled as in, "always gets his way"? Well, I think you *want* your child to get his way if it's not hurting or severely inconveniencing anyone, right? He is still very young to expect him to set aside his own desires or preferences for others (although to model and teach that is always appropriate), and "listen to me for the sake of listening" doesn' seem to be your style. My mother just laid in to me about my children not listening, and how I ought to spank them to get obedience. I would like my children to listen to me and follow instructions, but I don't want them to do it for the wrong reasons (fear of punitive action).


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Those things sound completely normal and like he isn't spoiled. Little ones have short attention spans, graze, and often say they are sorry on their own rather without needing to be pushed to. Why punish a child who is mostly doing what you ask him to do and helping to make amends when he doesn't? I think she is reacting to harshly to little things because it has been a long time since she has had kids of her own.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Everytime my mother (or anyone) told me I was spoiling DS1 I responded with "He is not a vegtable, little boys don't spoil."

I would have done some things differently than you did but that doesn't mean what you did was wrong or will "spoil" your child. It just means that we parent differently.

You and your mom parent differently too. Differently, not better or worse. I would highlight that if she criticizes you again.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

sounds good to me. i also don't force apologies.. esp. to family members. my mother did it to me and i still hate apologizing to her b/c she never let me get their on my own as a kid.. she always forced it on her terms. i say it to everyone else though.









the other stuff sounds great... i totally hear you on only requiring what they can give at a certain time. we ate together as a family growing up but i don't remember whether i had to sit there or not when i was younger.. did as i got older though and that was fine. eating was never forced though... i don't think it should be... i would do exactly what you did. people need to learn to eat when they are hungry and don't eat when they are not. any kind of forced eating interfered with that process.


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## Tjej (Jan 22, 2009)

I don't do things just the way you do either, but most of your ideas sound respectful, playful, and appropriate. For me the ignoring my request about coming to the table would have been an issue. I think if he is allowed to go and play instead, he should talk about it with you before going (personally we have the kids stay at the table and possibly color if they don't want to eat). Supper later could be fine, it's the disrespect of ignoring you that I would address.

Tjej


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tjej* 
I don't do things just the way you do either, but most of your ideas sound respectful, playful, and appropriate. For me the ignoring my request about coming to the table would have been an issue. I think if he is allowed to go and play instead, he should talk about it with you before going (personally we have the kids stay at the table and possibly color if they don't want to eat). Supper later could be fine, it's the disrespect of ignoring you that I would address.

Tjej

Her son is 2.5. I don't think he understands "disrespect."


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## my3peanuts (Nov 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 
Her son is 2.5. I don't think he understands "disrespect."

Than it's up to her to teach him what respect means. Will he learn that at 2.5? No. But as parents our kids are taught things like this far before they're old enough to really understand them.


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## Thisbirdwillfly (May 10, 2009)

Pretend play ends when someone gets hurt, in my opinion. It's not okay to keep enjoying an activity when you've just hurt someone doing it, intentionally or not.


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## LauraN (May 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *npd* 
In retrospect though, maybe I could have removed him from the living room as a consequence of not being able to play eagle without hurting others? Still seems like a bit of a stretch to me... what do you think?

I've only read this far, but mama--don't start imposing consequences! You're doing a fantastic job and I wish I could be 1/2 as patient as you are. Actually, I think it may come easier with my littlest one, b/c I've BTDT with the other two, you know? I agree with you 100%. A genuine apology is so much more meaningful! He's only 2.5. When he's 7, after he's seen you modeling immediate apologies, he will start to offer them immediately.

From the scenarios you described, it sounds like you're raising a thoughtful, kind, generous and empathic child. Good job, mama!


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

he apologized all by himself... no one had to force him.... i think waiting a few minutes for a sincere apology is preferable to forcing an insincere one. this way he learns to apologize b/c he is sincerely sorry not just because its polite.


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## Enudely (Jul 2, 2005)

I don't think it's age appropriate to expect a 2.5 year old to sit at the table through dinner....
I think the honest apology is the best thing you could hope for, also 2.5 year olds are so distracted in their play, it's very hard for them to "snap out of it" to see that someone else is hurting.

I think you should let your mom know that you are doing the best you can, you have some different opinions, and that you don't really need her advice unless you're asking for it.







you should let her know that what you need is her support!


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Quote:

Than it's up to her to teach him what respect means. Will he learn that at 2.5? No. But as parents our kids are taught things like this far before they're old enough to really understand them.

Well, first of all I don't believe that a 2.5 year old "ignoring" someone is disrespectful. It's developmental. But for argument's sake, let's say that you want to "teach" him or her about it--until they're developmentally old enough to understand, all you're doing is creating frustration for him and you, and putting your relationship at risk.

OP, I think you're doing a GREAT job. I parent in a similar way, and my kids are sweet, loving, apologetic and sincere.


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## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 
Well, first of all I don't believe that a 2.5 year old "ignoring" someone is disrespectful. It's developmental. But for argument's sake, let's say that you want to "teach" him or her about it--until they're developmentally old enough to understand, all you're doing is creating frustration for him and you, and putting your relationship at risk.

OP, I think you're doing a GREAT job. I parent in a similar way, and my kids are sweet, loving, apologetic and sincere.

I don't think that it's totally true that teaching a child how to treat you respectfully is harmful for the relationship even if he's a bit young to grasp it one hundred percent. Telling a child your expectations of how you want to be treated without shame or punishment is just laying the ground work for the future. I think it would have been totally reasonable to gently say to him that he is more than welcome to play, but mommy would like it if he told her that instead of walking away. Of course he doesn't get it one hundred percent. But it keeps communication open, it's respectful and in a few years from now he won't be totally shocked when mom's all upset that he totally ignored her request. He'll know that acknowledging mama when she speaks to him is important to her. Now if it isn't an issue for the OP, than it doesn't really matter, but if it is important to another mom it isn't going to be harmful to her relationship with her child to let them know how she feels.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

I don't think you are spoiling your DS at all. It sounds like you are doing a great job. My DD wasn't much on eating dinner with us at 2.5 either. She was just too busy at that age. She enjoys dinner time now at 3.5, even when she isn't hungry.

The most effective way to teach respect is to model it by all the adults in the family treating each other and the child respectfully. All we've done is model saying thank you, your welcome, greeting people pleasantly, saying sorry as an apology and in sympathy. Our 3.5 year old DD thanks me every time I give her anything or do anything for her. She thanks the person at the drive through window for her ice water and cashiers at grocery stores. She does apologize abit too much. This an extremely busy little wild child who still has her rude moments, but her manners are sincere.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

"this time he said 'no, I am being an eagle', and continued flying. I hugged DD, told her I was sorry she was hurt, and sat and snuggled with her while she continued doing what she was doing (reading). After a few minutes, with no further request, he came over and said he was sorry, and hugged her. She thinks he should have to say he's sorry, and that if he doesn't there should be a consequence."

I would have probably expressed my disappointment ("I'm sorry you're not concerned about your sister's feelings!"), otherwise, would have done it the same way.

"Without another word, he gets up, goes back to the library, continues playing. As he's leaving, I ask him to stay and eat, he doesn't answer. I finish my supper, as does the rest of the family, we clear the table (not his plate). A half an hour later, he asks if he can have his supper, I warm it up, he eats it in his chair. She thinks I should make him stay at the table."

We ask my daughter to ask to be excused when she leaves the table but she doesn't have to stay, either.

"At his usual bedtime, he is not at all tired (which I expected), so we don't start bedtime until an hour later. (I think she thinks I should make him go to bed on time regardless). Same thing if he's up through the night - if he wakes up completely for some reason, it can take him 45 minutes of quiet snuggling or BF with me to settle back down. She thinks that at this age, that shouldn't be necessary."

I agree it shouldn't be necessary but it is! The alternative- crying in his bed alone- is too depressing to contemplate. Our bedtime is also flexible. I agree that it's one of those choose-your-battles things.

"2.5yo, again at the table, is intentionally dropping banana pieces on the just-cleaned floor. I ask him not to, as the banana will be dirty and he won't be able to eat it. He continues, and tells me he is making a picture. I tell him that if he doesn't stop, I'll have to take the banana as I don't want him to waste the food. He doesn't, so I do take it away."

Yes, we do exactly that, how is that spoiling? He lost his toy AND his food in one fell swoop!

"After lunch, he helps me clean up the banana and I give him some paper and wax crayons to draw a picture. She thinks there should be a punishment, and thinks that the crayons and paper could be seen as a reward. I see it as redirecting his need to be creative at that point."

No, because he got the paper after cleaning his mess, and well after he had been inconsiderate, so it's not a reward.

It sounds to me like you have specific limits and they are enforced.

We also ask our daughter to say she's sorry. It's a reminder of how we treat people whether or not we meant to hurt them, not forcing her to feel a certain way.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *npd* 
2.5yo DS is playing in the living room, pretending to be an eagle, accidentally hits 6yo DD while 'flying' by. I comfort 6yo DD, tell 2.5yo DS that I know it was an accident but he hurt DD, say that it would be nice to give her a hug and say he's sorry. Often he will apologize, this time he said 'no, I am being an eagle', and continued flying. I hugged DD, told her I was sorry she was hurt, and sat and snuggled with her while she continued doing what she was doing (reading). After a few minutes, with no further request, he came over and said he was sorry, and hugged her. She thinks he should have to say he's sorry, and that if he doesn't there should be a consequence.

It was an accident and he did appologize after a few minutes. On his own without further prompting. You handled it fine.

Quote:

Another example - Supper is ready. 2.5yo DS is playing in the library. I go and tell him that dinner is ready and ask him to come to the table. He doesn't respond right away, so I ask him if he'd like to be an airplane and fly to the table. He jumps up and I 'fly' him to the table, put him on his chair, and sit in mine. Without another word, he gets up, goes back to the library, continues playing. As he's leaving, I ask him to stay and eat, he doesn't answer. I finish my supper, as does the rest of the family, we clear the table (not his plate). A half an hour later, he asks if he can have his supper, I warm it up, he eats it in his chair. She thinks I should make him stay at the table.
Sounds like you handled that one fine too. At two you can go from not hungry to hungry in half an hour, even as an adult you can go from not hungry to hungry in half an hour. Not being a hungry at a designated time is not something I would consider punishing.

He's 2.5, I would hardly expect a hungry 2.5 year old to be able to sit at the table for the duration of a meal let alone one who isn't even eating.

Quote:

Third example - 2.5yo naps during the afternoon, which he never does anymore. At his usual bedtime, he is not at all tired (which I expected), so we don't start bedtime until an hour later. (I think she thinks I should make him go to bed on time regardless). Same thing if he's up through the night - if he wakes up completely for some reason, it can take him 45 minutes of quiet snuggling or BF with me to settle back down. She thinks that at this age, that shouldn't be necessary.
No reason to go to bed if your not tired. That's just plain boring. Again well handled.

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One more example - 2.5yo, again at the table, is intentionally dropping banana pieces on the just-cleaned floor. I ask him not to, as the banana will be dirty and he won't be able to eat it. He continues, and tells me he is making a picture. I tell him that if he doesn't stop, I'll have to take the banana as I don't want him to waste the food. He doesn't, so I do take it away. After lunch, he helps me clean up the banana and I give him some paper and wax crayons to draw a picture. She thinks there should be a punishment, and thinks that the crayons and paper could be seen as a reward. I see it as redirecting his need to be creative at that point.
He didn't get a treat for throwing his food. He got to draw with crayons after he helped clean up. He got the banana taken away for throwing it. Also handled well.

I guess all in all, it sounds like you are going a great job. Probably would have handled all those situations the same way you did.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

I think that your mom is right, in some aspects.

Children should learn to acknowledge if they hurt someone.

Also, I believe that kids should be expected to sit with the family at meal times. Most people I know don't have dinner for a long period of time. If you don't start while they are very young, then when?

We don't "do" eating in "shifts". Nor do we allow a treat if dinner hasn't been eaten. I am not a member of the "clean plate club". But, if you have not eaten one bite of dinner, and then expect a cookie later, forget it.

We don't play with food, or waste it. It is too expensive these days.

Hard nosed? To some, probably. But it works in our house. Y'all don't have to agree.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Enudely* 
I don't think it's age appropriate to expect a 2.5 year old to sit at the table through dinner....

I read this here a good bit, but I disagree with it. Both of my children are perfectly capable. DS is 4; DD is 2.5. Both sit through dinner with the family and have since they were born. As newborns, they were in a sling, and as they got older, DH and I juggled them while we ate. As soon as they could sit up on their own, they sat in the highchair while we ate. There is a point when DH and I are chatting, but we're all done when they can ask to be excused. They rarely do, though. They usually sit and chat with us or with each other. DS has once or twice said he wanted to play instead, and DH said no, even if you're not eating, we have dinner as a family.

It's only inappropriate, imo, if you suddenly enforce it and expect your 2YO to sit through dinner when that hasn't been the family norm. In those cases, I think you do have to work your way up to it. And if you don't think sitting together as a family is necessary, then that's fine, too, for your family, but it should be because you choose it - not because you believe your child is incapable.

As for the OP, the biggest problem I see is the ignoring. Both DD and DS have gone through this, but I've always gotten on eye level with them and said, "I was talking to you." (I never say that in a mean or accusatory way. I just want them to acknowledge that I was talking, and DS does have a tendency to daydream and really not realize anyone was addressing him.) Then I repeat whatever I said, and we go from there. I don't think it's appropriate to just walk out of the room when someone's talking to you, and I think a 2.5 YO can learn that.


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

One thing that bothers me is when people assume that because THEIR kid is capable of something, ALL kids can do it. It may not be a big deal for your kid to sit through a meal, but a HUGE deal for another. It's not for us to judge, IMO.

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I don't think that it's totally true that teaching a child how to treat you respectfully is harmful for the relationship even if he's a bit young to grasp it one hundred percent. Telling a child your expectations of how you want to be treated without shame or punishment is just laying the ground work for the future. I think it would have been totally reasonable to gently say to him that he is more than welcome to play, but mommy would like it if he told her that instead of walking away. Of course he doesn't get it one hundred percent. But it keeps communication open, it's respectful and in a few years from now he won't be totally shocked when mom's all upset that he totally ignored her request. He'll know that acknowledging mama when she speaks to him is important to her. Now if it isn't an issue for the OP, than it doesn't really matter, but if it is important to another mom it isn't going to be harmful to her relationship with her child to let them know how she feels.
I totally agree with all you say here. But I do still think that the potential exists for damage to the relationship, depending on the level of insistence on adherence to "respect," which is such a vague term. I see a lot of potential frustration there.


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## Mama.Pajama (Jul 16, 2008)

*I don't think your mom has a right to advise you on parenting matters unless you have asked for advice.*
It sounds to me like you and your children are in your own groove, as a PP said, and it's working for you.

I will agree with some PPs that the ignoring thing would irk me, but then again, we're talking about a 2.5 year old here. He doesn't quite have the frame of reference to comprehend the disrespectfulness of ignoring someone when they are talking to you- he's just busy. I wouldn't hesitate to tell him in simple words that I would like him to listen. That may have entailed following him into the room he wondered off into and getting down on his level for a moment to repeat what I had said, asking him to listen.
But then again, you've got a big family and it was more convenient for everyone at the time to just eat and be done with it, which is understandable.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

I have to agree that 2.5 is a tricky age because some kids can sit through a meal, but many can't. This is an age of huge inconsistencies and disparities in development. I believe that children should be encouraged from as early as possible to sit at the table, but the mom in question no doubt has determined that her son is not there yet.

Based on her other responses, it seems like if he was, she would have used another gentle way to encourage that.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

i think you are doing just fine. i think your mommy instincts are right on for your child and your family. let comments slide off your back.

i would have done some things different, but my kids and family are different. you know your child, and what works for him.

oh... spoiling is something that happens to something left on the shelf too long. you are nurturing.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *npd* 
2.5yo DS is playing in the living room, pretending to be an eagle, accidentally hits 6yo DD while 'flying' by. I comfort 6yo DD, tell 2.5yo DS that I know it was an accident but he hurt DD, say that it would be nice to give her a hug and say he's sorry. Often he will apologize, this time he said 'no, I am being an eagle', and continued flying. I hugged DD, told her I was sorry she was hurt, and sat and snuggled with her while she continued doing what she was doing (reading). After a few minutes, with no further request, he came over and said he was sorry, and hugged her. She thinks he should have to say he's sorry, and that if he doesn't there should be a consequence.

He said sorry. He said sorry when he meant it. While I know many disagree, I don't see an issue with this at all. I'm not sure I'd handle it that well.

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Another example - Supper is ready. 2.5yo DS is playing in the library. I go and tell him that dinner is ready and ask him to come to the table. He doesn't respond right away, so I ask him if he'd like to be an airplane and fly to the table. He jumps up and I 'fly' him to the table, put him on his chair, and sit in mine. Without another word, he gets up, goes back to the library, continues playing. As he's leaving, I ask him to stay and eat, he doesn't answer. I finish my supper, as does the rest of the family, we clear the table (not his plate). A half an hour later, he asks if he can have his supper, I warm it up, he eats it in his chair. She thinks I should make him stay at the table.
We have our kids stay at the table during supper, whether they're eating or not. But, that's a style difference (and some of it is in reaction to the complete lack of family time when I was with my ex). I'd probably require some kind of answer when I spoke to him, because it's not okay for my kids to just ignore people when they're being talked to...but that's also a personal hot button. I'd do the same thing, as far as giving him his plate back (unless it was something he didn't like, as opposed to him just not being hungry at dinner time). I don't think kids need to get the idea that they should eat when other people are hungry, especially when they're as young as your ds.

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Third example - 2.5yo naps during the afternoon, which he never does anymore. At his usual bedtime, he is not at all tired (which I expected), so we don't start bedtime until an hour later. (I think she thinks I should make him go to bed on time regardless). Same thing if he's up through the night - if he wakes up completely for some reason, it can take him 45 minutes of quiet snuggling or BF with me to settle back down. She thinks that at this age, that shouldn't be necessary.
If a strict bedtime doesn't matter to you, then I see no issue. As for snuggling back to sleep, every child is different, and even the same child is different some nights. (For example, ds2 goes to sleep quite happily most nights - I say my goodnights to both of them, and he sits and plays in his bed until he wants to sleep. But, we had one night recently when dh ended up spelling me on the snuggle time, because ds2 was _freaking_ without a cuddle, and my bladder was ready to burst. It took well over an hour to get him soothed back to sleep...and he's almost 4.

Quote:

One more example - 2.5yo, again at the table, is intentionally dropping banana pieces on the just-cleaned floor. I ask him not to, as the banana will be dirty and he won't be able to eat it. He continues, and tells me he is making a picture. I tell him that if he doesn't stop, I'll have to take the banana as I don't want him to waste the food. He doesn't, so I do take it away. After lunch, he helps me clean up the banana and I give him some paper and wax crayons to draw a picture. She thinks there should be a punishment, and thinks that the crayons and paper could be seen as a reward. I see it as redirecting his need to be creative at that point.
I don't see any point in a punishment. I think you handled this well. I usually end up cleaning up after ds2, because I just don't have the energy to try to make him clean up. It's something I need to work on. Your ds is learning to pick up his own mess, so why punish him?

He doesn't sound spoiled to me. As I said, there are some things that I'd put more or less emphasis on, but that's a matter of personal priorities, not a belief that your way is "wrong" and mine is "right".


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
Children should learn to acknowledge if they hurt someone.

He did.

Quote:

Also, I believe that kids should be expected to sit with the family at meal times. Most people I know don't have dinner for a long period of time. If you don't start while they are very young, then when?
We started with dd as soon as she was too old to eat on our laps. She tried to climb out of her highchair, and she still gets up from the table regularly. She has to come back, unless she asks to be excused, but...she's 6. Starting early accomplished nothing. She hates sitting at the table if she's not eating, and she's rarely eating.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Except for the dinner scenerio, I would have done all the same things..

Oh.. wait, the banana would have been gone immediately. "Use it or lose it" is the rule with food in my house.

Otherwise, you have the same attitude I have... not that you and I are right, and others are wrong... It's just what's worked for me.

(dinner would be served at dinner time.... if he leaves at dinner, I might have left it out for him, but I wouldn't have reheated it)


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
(dinner would be served at dinner time.... if he leaves at dinner, I might have left it out for him, but I wouldn't have reheated it)

I was thinking that, but I think I might. It would probably depend on what it was. We eat a lot of meals that are just fine cold or lukewarm, and some that are _really_ unpalatable if they're cold. I don't want to punish my kids for not being hungry when I am, yk?


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## OGirlieMama (Aug 6, 2006)

I can't see anything wrong with what you did. If your son habitually hurt people without apologizing, that'd be one thing. But I think at 2.5 years old a child with a general pattern of socially-acceptable responses to hurting someone should certainly be forgiven the occasional transgression, especially when it was an accidental hit, not one in anger.

I don't know how people get an unwilling 2.5-year-old sit at the table even if he's not hungry. I'd probably have to take out duct tape. If it's very important to you, I could see asking him to please sit down for 1-2 minutes, but at that age I don't see what good really comes of it. Then again, we do not have a set family dinner during the week (my husband comes home from work after the girls are asleep) so this isn't a big issue in my home.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
Oh.. wait, the banana would have been gone immediately. "Use it or lose it" is the rule with food in my house.

He was using the banana... Just not in the gerenally accepted manner.


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