# 6yr old Drowned at our Gym pool...



## MandyB (Oct 9, 2006)

We just joined the Gym last Saturday. On Wed. I was there with a couple of friends and their 10yr old daughters. (My 4 little ones were in the gym daycare already thank goodness) We were watching the girls, when one of them came over calling us scared with a lifeless little boy face down in her arms. It was in the kiddie beach pool, but the 4ft section of the pool and she was struggling a little bit to get across the pool with him.

Once we realized they were NOT playing, I jumped in (clothes, work out shoes on and all) to help them. I took the little boy from her arms, realized he probably already gone when I saw he was blue with purple lips and vomit and foam coming out of his mouth. It was the scariest thing I've ever seen! This poor baby boy! At this point, we were yelling for someone to get help as I was carrying him to the edge of the pool. NOBODY WAS DOING ANYTHING!!! They all just stood there watching in horror! I got him out of the pool, but was still in the pool standing there myself and began to clear his mouth out so we could listen to see if he was breathing. I was so shaky, but tried to take his pulse. I felt NOTHING, but almost didn't believe it myself. I remember hoping it wasn't true and that the reason I couldn't feel his pulse was because I was shaky, but then I saw his little eyes wide open through his goggles that he still had on his little head. I started to get out of the pool to begin CPR when an off duty swim instructor (who had heard yelling from the locker room) came running up. I told him we needed to start CPR and he began the chest compressions. It seemed like they went on forever. I was so shaken up, I couldn't remember if it was 5, 15 or 30 compressions before a breath! I was a lifeguard in highschool, and my last CPR class was in 2005 when we were applying to be foster parents.
I told the swim instructor he needed to tell me when to breath for him, and I continued to clear his mouth as vomit and white bubbles where coming out so he would be ready. Just before it was time to breath for him, another man (where was everyone else?!) came up and asked if I needed him to do them. I said yes since I was still standing in the pool at the boys side, and he obviously had a better angle than me. After the two breath's...more chest compressions....and I heard someone yell, "Where are his parents??" That's when a man standing above us said very nonchalant - "Well, I'm his dad.....Oh look, he SH** him self. What happened there Mikey?" I couldn't believe how laid back this guy was! He didn't try to comfort him, or jump in the pool to hold his hand or anything! After two more breaths, I noticed a little life come back into his eyes, under those goggles and told the two guys doing CPR. He very slowly was trying so hard to breath again! You could see him trying with all of his might to suck in air in short little breaths as I was saying, "Come on Mikey...Breathe sweetie...It's okay." The swim instructor told him to try to cough, and he tried (although it was nothing close to a Cough....you could see it helped) Then he just look terrified and began to cry a very low moaning cry...poor thing. He was all stiff lying there on his side just moaning/crying as I was comforting him telling him he was going to be okay. We took his goggles off and the swim instructor put his hand under his head so it wasn't directly on the cement. (This swim instructor was SO amazing, and he's probably not any older than 17 or 18!)
The dad still didn't get in the pool. I looked up and didn't see him around anywhere. The ambulance finally showed up and took him away, but the dad never said a word to him - didn't even go in the ambulance. I couldn't believe it. Maybe he was in shock, or drunk, or I don't know WHAT. It turns out that the little boy is fine. I *hear* that he's made a full recovery and only spent one night in the hospital. It turns out that his mom is a personal trainer at the gym. The swim instructor told us the next day that it was all caught on tape and that this poor baby was in the pool *drowning* for SEVEN minutes! SEVEN minutes, and not ONE person noticed?! We were diligently watching my our girls in the pool and didn't see him either! Where was his father? (Mom was as home) There are signs everywhere that say there is no lifeguard on duty, and that you MUST be watching/swimming with your kids at all times. Children 6 & under have to have an adult in the water with them. There are "deck Supervisors" who walk around with whistles, but aren't lifeguards. The did absolutely NOTHING when everything went down. They didn't even clear the pool! (Another parent did eventually) The deck supervisors stood as far away as possible shocked and did nothing. One gym employee ran out with a first aid kit, but that's it.

I sort of half expected someone at the gym to contact me and say something like, "We know you just joined the gym, and we're sorry that whatever the circumstances were, you were put in this position. We have talked with our staff and are making sure to put emergency procedures into place so that if this ever happens again, we will be prepared." NOPE, nothing. The gym manager is always in meetings. I told the ASst. manager I wanted to speak with hiim and gave my phone number, but recieved no call. (that was on Thursday) On Friday evening, I called the corporate office and the lady on the phone was SO rude! She asked what I was calling about and when I said I was one of the people who helped save the little boy and wanted to know that they are going to train the employees to handle emergencies and make sure kids are being supervised by their parents in the future, this is what she said to me: "Well....you're about the 12th person who has called today "claiming" they were the one to rescue the little boy, so everyone seems to think they're a hero right now" This just pissed me off, and I set her straight and told her what my role was. Saving this boy was a TEAM effort between my friends daughter, myself the swim instructor and the other guy!

I thought I was okay, and feeling good we saved this boys life...BUT I'M NOT. I'm so shaken up by this! I cannot get his lifeless face out of my head. I can't stop talking about it. I go to bed thinking about it, it's been the first thing that pops in my mind when I wake up. We went to two "swimming" birthday parties this weekend and I don't think I've EVER had as much anxiety as I did while my kids (who swim pretty well) were swimming! A couple of times I thought I was going to jump in the pool unnecessarily and people would have thought I was crazy! What's wrong with me? The fact that the gym is trying to sweep it all under the rug and pretend it didn't happen is upsetting me even more. I wish they would just validate that yes, this did happen and they're going to learn from it! Instead, the receptionist is telling people a false story of what actually happened when people inquire. Why are they covering it up?

I'm so sorry this is so long! Like I said, I'm a little traumatized. I hope it wasn't too graphic, and EVERYONE can learn from this. I'm sure his dad thought he was a great swimmer, and in a beach pool where he could touch the bottom no less.

I wasn't really sure WHERE to post this either, so sorry if it's in the wrong forum!

WHAT WOULD YOU DO? Should I just let it go, or keep trying to talk to the gym manager? It all happened last wed., so about 4 days ago.

And...thank you for listening and letting me get it all out!


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## mummyofan (Jun 25, 2008)

oh, my goodness. You sound amazing; I hope you're there if mine ever got into some trouble.
I think you should keep bugging them. If you have the time, contact the manager again, even under false pretences. Call the police as a non emergency and detail it to them, make sure they know where it happened, tell people.... See if the hospital has contact info for this family, just so if nothing else you can contact them and get closure... I think that's what you need.
Don't stop. There's OBVIOUSLY something very wrong at this place.

I really think you're one of these good people who we read about in the paper, you know the sort; they help. Period.
Amazing.
hugs.


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## nola79 (Jun 21, 2009)

OMG!!!!!!!! That is the scariest thing I've read in a long time......poor you, I would be totally traumatized, I think I'm traumatized now! Thank God you were there for the little boy, and he made it. If it were me, I would be making a scene about it, and yes, I would insist on talking to the manager.
I can't believe they don't have lifegaurds on duty, that's wild! It's a shame how nonchalant the dad acted, what a strange situation.


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## Neuromancer (Jan 15, 2008)

I don't know what to say, but I felt I needed to post in support. Thank goodness those of you who acted did so! I think, if I were you, I'd try again (on the phone and/or in person) to contact the gym manager. I'm so sorry that you had to go through that (and sorrier for the little boy, of course, though I'm glad he's okay now). I do hope the gym is talking about the incident with all employees, and I wonder if they haven't said anything to you because they're talking with lawyers about how to handle the incident...


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

I don't even know where to start.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Oh, wow! I feel all faint just reading your story!

My 5 yo and and I went to a birthday party at a pool a couple of weeks ago, and adults had to rescue kids five times. It was insane. It really opened my eyes to how dangerous pools are. And I am now convinced that it is true what they say, that having young children in swimming lessons simply makes you less cautious, because kids that had been in twice-weekly swimming lessons since before they could walk were still panicking and getting in trouble.

I am so glad that boy lived. So, so glad. And I would imagine his dad was just in incredible shock. I doubt he will make the same mistake again.


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## wagamama (Jul 3, 2006)

I couldn't read this without respond. I'm in shock. I'm most worried about the little boy's welfare -- it sounds like there is definitely something wrong with his father.







Could you contact a child welfare organization and let them know what happened?


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## MandyB (Oct 9, 2006)

Thank you for your responses, and for even getting through the whole post! I asked them why they don't have lifeguards (I think I always thought the deck employees were lifeguards, but they just didnt announce it so people would watch their kids, ya know?) He told me they have no lifeguards on PURPOSE because then people by law would be allowed to leave their kids at the pool and go work out, and they don't want them doing that. I'm in CA...anyone know if this is true?

It seems to me like poeple who are going to watch their kids, will whether a lifeguard is there or not, and the same goes for parents who AREN't going to watch their kids, so it wouldn't hurt to have lifeguards no matter what!


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## dannic (Jun 14, 2005)

Wow, that is SO scary! I would be shaken ,too! I'm so glad he didn't die!
HOnestly, I would aske for a refund and join another gym. They are down playing a very serious situation, probably because they are trying to avoind fall out, but it's not a responsible response at all.


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

They are obviously more concerned with liability--while one of their OWN EMPLOYEES and spouse can't care for their own child--than they are with the child's life. What a sick, sick world we live in.









You're probably and understandably in a fog from all of this







, but make sure you document every detail--times, dates, names--of everything related to the event, from the event itself to the follow-up conversations.

More savvy parents will probably have ideas where to report these people--BBB and your State Atty General come to mind, but others may have better ideas.

I'm am sooooooo sorry. That this little guy survived is nothing short of a miracle. Thank you for what you did.


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## nola79 (Jun 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MandyB* 
Thank you for your responses, and for even getting through the whole post! I asked them why they don't have lifeguards (I think I always thought the deck employees were lifeguards, but they just didnt announce it so people would watch their kids, ya know?) He told me they have no lifeguards on PURPOSE because then people by law would be allowed to leave their kids at the pool and go work out, and they don't want them doing that. I'm in CA...anyone know if this is true?

It seems to me like poeple who are going to watch their kids, will whether a lifeguard is there or not, and the same goes for parents who AREN't going to watch their kids, so it wouldn't hurt to have lifeguards no matter what!

At the gym I belong to, children have to be 9 years old to be left at the pool alone.....even with 2 lifegaurds on duty, I don't think I'd do that. Like you said, parents are either going to watch their kids or not.
Oh yeah, I'm in Louisiana so the laws are probably different anyway.
I don't know, there definitley seems to be something wrong at that gym from the way you describe how it all went down. Scary.


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## MandyB (Oct 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Neuromancer* 
I do hope the gym is talking about the incident with all employees, and I wonder if they haven't said anything to you because they're talking with lawyers about how to handle the incident...

The reason I think they AREN'T talking to the employees is because everytime it's been mentioned, nobody seems to know about it. One daycare employee asked another manager if she knew about it, and she told the same wierd story the front desk person is telling. They're saying he was in a swim lesson with the instructor {um, no} and got over exhausted, so the instructor began CPR. The story doesn't even make sense! Why would you do CPR unless he was gone?!


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

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I was horrified reading this that there was going to be an awful ending. I'm so glad you were there to help this little boy. I can only hope that his dad was just in shock and couldn't process what was happening. Last week I was at a friends house with my kids in their new above ground pool. It's just one of those small ones - 30 inches of water. I was watching as my 4 year old walked across the pool and tripped and I didn't realize he was in trouble - I thought he was getting brave and putting his face under until I saw his feet come up. So, please, don't feel guilty for not noticing this boy - I was in reaching distance of my son, whom I was keeping a close eye on as I know he's a non-swimmer, and I didn't notice. Had I not been there, I don't think any of the many adults standing close or kids swimming in the pool would have noticed - he just looked like another one of the kids playing. And this also happened in a pool where he could easily reach the bottom. (He was fine, by the way, just a little traumatized and in awe of his big brother who he's been calling his "rescue hero" for being the one who pulled him out.)

I don't know what to do about the gym management. While I don't think they're responsible for what happened, since they don't claim to have a lifeguard on duty, they absolutely should have some sort of emergency response plan in place - designated people to call 911, staff with updated CPR certificates, etc. My niece works the front desk at a gym and she has to keep updated CPR/first aid certificates. I would expect more of a response from the staff.

How are the girls handling it? I could imagine that could be very traumatic for them







. I'm glad they saw him, and that you and the swim instructor were there to help.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

Good grief! I can't believe there AREN'T lifeguards. I can tell you what I'd do were I in your shoes, but you still need to chose your own path. I do think however it would be good for you to speak to a professional about it, just to help you get through this traumatic event, so it doesn't manifest in other ways. You did an amazing job and thank goodness you and your friends were there.

As for what I'd do, I'd scream to everyone who'd listen to get this gym's policies changed, and if it meant changing the policy of the district so be it. I'd be on the horn to the media so fast. But I can tell you that something like that for me, would be therapeutic. It really depends on what you need to do for yourself.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

When CPR is necessary, it is because someone is dead. So often, it is too late. You pumped and breathed life back into that little boy. Thank you.

It is so shocking to see something like that. Sometimes people freeze up. I am glad some of you became clear enough to help. It saved a life. It sounds like the father did not realize that his child's heart stopped.

It makes so much sense that you can't stop thinking about this. Of course not. I am glad you are following up with the gym and corporate, and I am so sorry for the rudeness on the phone with the lady at corporate.

And thank you for an important water safety post in the summer time when so many of us are spending the days with our families in pools. The younger of my kids is such a fish and is so close to learning to swim, but your post was a good reminder to me that no matter how old they are and what they know, every moment I must be 100% vigilant.


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## MandyB (Oct 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wagamama* 
I couldn't read this without respond. I'm in shock. I'm most worried about the little boy's welfare -- it sounds like there is definitely something wrong with his father.







Could you contact a child welfare organization and let them know what happened?

After the boy left in the ambulance, I made a point to let the police officer know that the father was acting very strange and had been no where NEAR him supervising him. He agreed with me that the guy seemed "off", but I guess nothing ever came of it. I have to say though, that I have met the boys mom at the gym and she seems like a wonderful mother. Very into Attachment parenting, breastfeeding, etc. I was nursing my son in the gym on the day we joined and she is the one person who came up to me and we had a lengthy conversation (she has a 16 month old too). She played with my 8month old and everything. How odd that it ended up being HER son. I want to talk to her, but don't know what to say to her. I don't want to upset her more, but am not even sure if she understands the gravity what happened or not! What is the gym telling HER? I don't know....

Thanks again everyone for your support! I think the real heroes in all of this are the kids! The little boy, the girls how found him at the bottom of the pool and brought him to our attention, and the swim instructor who acted so swiftly! They really should be honored and not swept under the rug!


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Thank God he is ok!
















You did an amazing thing!!! I have no words to say what is on my heart.....


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

Yikes! How scary. It sounds like you need a stress-debriefing. Maybe a counseling apt. or two. The psyche really gets screwed up with such a high-emotion event.


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## Happiestever (May 13, 2007)

I am so thankful that you happened to be there with your family. If you want you could contact the local news so they can do their own PSA as well. God Bless.


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## MandyB (Oct 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Joyster* 
As for what I'd do, I'd scream to everyone who'd listen to get this gym's policies changed, and if it meant changing the policy of the district so be it. I'd be on the horn to the media so fast. But I can tell you that something like that for me, would be therapeutic. It really depends on what you need to do for yourself.

This is exactly what I feel like I need to do. Just checking I guess to make sure I'm NOT crazy to want to do so!


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Wow, that is amazing! I would defintely contact the press and tell your story, but ask to be anonymous (they hide your identity) so no one from the gym can say you're doing it for attention. And I would ask the press to focus on the lack of safety and training and lack of response form corporate. I think bad public press often forces places like this to stop being so complacent and actually do something.


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## nola79 (Jun 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MandyB* 
This is exactly what I feel like I need to do. Just checking I guess to make sure I'm NOT crazy to want to do so!

No way! Not crazy at all!


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## mummyofan (Jun 25, 2008)

reading your last posts, I would DEFINATELY talk to the Mom; she may be glad that SOMEONE is acknowledging it. She may need to talk to someone who was there... get closure herself.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Holy crap, Mandy! You are amazing, and I'm so glad you were there to save his life!! I can't even imagine. Thanks for sharing this, and I am really happy the boy is recovering so well. Sooo scary. I hope you aren't traumatized by this forever - but can find some peace since you played such a big role in the child's survival.

I saw two kids slip under the water for a matter of seconds last weekend but luckily the life guards blew their whistles and jumped in right away to pull them out and call attention to the parents. I am nervous enough with lifeguards on duty - so I can't imagine why the dad wasn't watching his kid better.

Anyhow, wow.














.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

Wow! I'm absolutely shocked that they are playing it down so much. Big kudos to you, I'm glad that you and a few others were there to intervene when no one else would.

I'm beyond mad hearing this, do not let them sweep this under the rug. I work for a local YMCA and last May I went through lifegaurd training to help out in our pool. We have a _very_ small YMCA and even our rules for these types of things are very strict. First of all a lifegaurd is ALWAYS on duty. If there is no lifegaurd the pool is closed, period. Doesn't matter if its only adults. No lifegaurd = no swimming. We had to wear lifegaurd uniforms identifying who we were too. If kids were in the pool we HAD to stand up at the edge of the pool to ensure we could see every bit of it down to the bottom. There are 2 alarm buzzers and if there is an emergency we hit the alarm and jump in. The alarm sent the front desk people running into the pool area and clearing everyone and were calling 911. 90% of the staff are trained in CPR too. I stopped lifegaurding in January because of a busy schedule but pools still = serious business to me. Especially after the training.

I coordinate a day-camp program there and the kids swim 2x a day. We have 3 trained lifegaurds on our staff as counselors (not including me), one is always on duty to gaurd along side the regular lifegaurds. It's just THAT important!

My point is, they are taking this waaaay too lightly. They need to have a clear emergency plan in place and policies written on how to handle this. Not to mention better training all around! They should have a lifegaurd, no reason not too unless they are just being cheap. I normally don't say go run to the press, but since they wont take it seriously I'd pass the story along to the news and pitch it as a safety investigation. Maybe if they are getting publically questioned about what the safety proceedures are and why they don't have lifegaurds they may change. No one wants to give bad publicity, but if it saves a child somewhere down the line it would be totally worth it!


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MandyB* 
He told me they have no lifeguards on PURPOSE because then people by law would be allowed to leave their kids at the pool and go work out, and they don't want them doing that. I'm in CA...anyone know if this is true?

That just doesn't sound true at all. I'm not a lawyer and I live in NJ, but it really really sounds ridiculous. How could a law possibly force an unwilling adult or institution to take responsibility for any child simply b/c they are trained lifeguards. If that were true I could just stop by your house and drop DS off b/c your a trained lifeguard and you couldn't ask me to stay and supervise him.

What I suspect is the case, is they have untrained deck supervisors b/c they look like lifeguards but are much cheaper. Of course they post the signs for liability reasons, but most people would not realize there were no lifeguards. If I saw that sign, but saw what looked like lifeguards I would think that the sign was just left up at all times b/c there were no lifeguards _sometimes_.

I would think the pool would actually be safer if there were no deck supervisors, b/c they cause a false sense of security.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
That just doesn't sound true at all. I'm not a lawyer and I live in NJ, but it really really sounds ridiculous. How could a law possibly force an unwilling adult or institution to take responsibility for any child simply b/c they are trained lifeguards. If that were true I could just stop by your house and drop DS off b/c your a trained lifeguard and you couldn't ask me to stay and supervise him.

What I suspect is the case, is they have untrained deck supervisors b/c they look like lifeguards but are much cheaper. Of course they post the signs for liability reasons, but most people would not realize there were no lifeguards. If I saw that sign, but saw what looked like lifeguards I would think that the sign was just left up at all times b/c there were no lifeguards _sometimes_.

I would think the pool would actually be safer if there were no deck supervisors, b/c they cause a false sense of security.

Exactly! Ours has lifegaurds but there are also strict rules on no under 13 kids left unsupervised. If there are kids in there the parent HAVE to be in the pool room with them.


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## MandyB (Oct 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
I would think the pool would actually be safer if there were no deck supervisors, b/c they cause a false sense of security.

Yes, I agree with you 100%! I always watch my kids like crazy but also assumed the deck supervisors were lifeguard trained! Not sure WHY they are even there if they aren't, and aren't useful when needed anyway!


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AngelBee* 
Thank God he is ok!
















You did an amazing thing!!! I have no words to say what is on my heart.....

Absolutely. Oh my goodness . . . just reading about what happened has me shaken.


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## momasana (Aug 24, 2007)

Wow. Ummmm......Wow.










If I were you I would continue to contact gym management, as high up as I could go. And if they didn't respond I would contact media, the fire department, ANYONE who could get the word out on this.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Being who I am, I would be calling every single person, group, organization I can think of to get something changed at that gym. Including the papers. I don't care if they don't want to deal with parents going to work out while their kids swim. A public pool _needs_ a life guard on duty. Preferably more than one.

Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned, but it might help for you talk to a professional about this to help you work through it. No doubt a very traumatic experience. I'm shaking just reading it.


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## *Jade* (Mar 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned, but it might help for you talk to a professional about this to help you work through it. No doubt a very traumatic experience. I'm shaking just reading it.

Everyone else has said what I think about the situation, but I wanted to push this point. It can be EXTREMELY traumatic to be involved with situations like this, and you need to really take care of yourself for the next few days! We're not meant to deal with life and death everyday, so it can take its toll on you, so take care and be gentle with yourself, and if it would help, talk to someone.


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

OMG, what a horrendous experience. Thank goodness you were there. I can't begin to understand the father's reaction....truly sickening.

Get yourself some homeopathic Aconite 30C from the health food store (take a few doses over a day). It will help with the shock you went through!

I second getting the media involved!


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## LauraLoo (Oct 9, 2006)

Mandy - what a truly horrible experience for you. But thank goodness you were there and kept your wits about you.

I agree with the other pp's who suggested that you might want to talk to someone about this. I think it's so devastating on so many levels that you will want and need to work it through.


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

Wow - good for you for being on the ball.

As for the lifeguard thing - it sounds like they've set up a dangerous situation with their deck supervisors. They would be much better to have NO ONE working the pool area & make it truly parental supervision instead of giving any kind of impression that the pool is being watched by someone with any kind of training at all.

It sounds like the father was probably in shock - many people are completely immobolized by shock.


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## luv-my-boys (Dec 8, 2008)

Honestly I would find it very hard to believe that there is such a law. Now to CYA yes I see it, in fact that is probably the case. There is less liability if its policy and clearly stated that there is no lifeguard than to have trained lifeguards always available when the pool open, sucky money saving measure but it happens alot. Again CYA against liability even if you have a lifeguard its high liability if they didnt see the incident or respond fast enough or whatnot.

I would be really questioning whether I would wnat to remain a member of that gym because obviously the employess and staff are not trained (enough or properly) on how to handle emergency situations. My question would be after your experience do you feel that the staff is qualified to handle emergency situations if they should arise with you? I wouldnt. Yes its normal for people to freeze but again there should be a plan for emergencies in place in every workplace for that reason. Its so ingrained in you that you just automatically do it. Im also suprised that they didnt alert other staff of an in house emergency, our gym has a emergency lever at several stations throughout the gym (pool, locker rooms) that automatically go off if pulled.


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## paintedfire (May 3, 2010)

First of all, I want to say that you're a hero. Thank you for being so quick to react and for just being you in that horrible moment in time.

You, the woman who found him, the swim instructor, the man who came over to help - you're all heros and I'm thankful to all of you. You're amazing.

Now . . .

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Joyster* 
As for what I'd do, I'd scream to everyone who'd listen to get this gym's policies changed, and if it meant changing the policy of the district so be it. I'd be on the horn to the media so fast. But I can tell you that something like that for me, would be therapeutic. It really depends on what you need to do for yourself.











This is exactly what I would do. The fact that they're trying to downplay such a terrible incident is horrifying.

In addition, I'd run as fast as I could from the gym. It doesn't sound like ANY place I'd want to be - let alone have my kids there.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MandyB* 
This is exactly what I feel like I need to do. Just checking I guess to make sure I'm NOT crazy to want to do so!

Not crazy at all. In fact, I'd go so far as to venture that it's the sanest possible reaction.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Also, I don't know if it's been mentioned, but it might help for you talk to a professional about this to help you work through it. No doubt a very traumatic experience. I'm shaking just reading it.

I want to stress this as well. You've just experienced something that no one should ever have to. You're bound to be left with some scars and anxiety from it. I know that I wouldn't come out of something like this calm and collected. A grief or trauma councilor would probably be able to help you greatly.

My thoughts are with you as you continue to process this terrifying event. Rest assured in that knowledge that you're an inspiration to me and - I'm sure - everyone else. Don't forget that.

Thanks again for just being you.

ETA: I _am_ a lawyer so I might be able to help you figure out what you could or could not say to media outlets as long as you promise not to sue me if I steer you wrong.









Feel free to PM me any time.


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## yarngoddess (Dec 27, 2006)

How very horrible to be there, experiencing that








I really think you need to talk to Mom. She needs to know what you went through- what you say- the way Dad behaved. I know it's akward, and maybe difficult, but if you were taking awesome care of MY DS- then I would want to know.

Up here (northern cali) the one gym I belonged to had no lifegards on duty as well. They also had Deck Supervisors- their sole job was to clean the swim area (towels, drinks left over, also set out equiptment needed for classes, put away equiptment) they are absolutly NOT trained as Lifeguards. It's POSTED that they have NO TRAINING, and when you join the Gym you must sign several releases that state 1-No Lifeguards on duty 2-No Training is provided to Deck People 3-the Gym is not liable for any accidents, injury or death related in regards to the pool.

I would also write the Gym a letter. Very clear about what you want/expect to happen. Very clear about your upset over the Employee's standing around not doing anything. I also would include the rude woman on the phone and the attitude you've endured. It's not acceptable, even if you were the 112th caller regarding this. Grow some Customer Service, for crying out loud.

I would also debate contacting CPS after talking to the Mom. I am deeply disturbed by the Dad's reaction. It seemed to me like he was intoxicated (drugs? alcohol? rx's?) by his strange behavior. Yes, stress and grief make people react in different ways, but it seems to me this was almost a Joke in his mind.







Very Very Very disturbing. I'm NOT big into calling CPS, however this situation is one that the child almost died- and the dad was wondering why he Sh*t himself???? REALLY??? Just horrible









I agree that you should see someone for some counseling. I think talking to the mom will help, and maybe even seeing the little boy. Provide some closure, but that won't get rid of the picture of him in your head







Please consider this as well.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

no lifeguard does not surprise me at all. here in CA. many businesses are struggling to survive. even public pools are having even more limited hours because of budget cuts. i know of two places. one is a professional swimm place. they have trained lifeguard on duty or else no one gets in the pool. a smaller gym has no lifeguard but needs children to be supervised at all times. obviously the swim club is far more expensive than the small gym.

first of all - after the ambulance - were you given any kind of support/services to deal with the emotional trauma you went through? being responsible for someone's life or death is a huge thing and you need to be heard.

unfortunately its a gym with terrible PR. i am sure they themselves are trying to figure out what to do. what trainings and policies and emergency procedures they need to put into place.

there are two things i would want you to do.

1. is seek some kind of help to help you process this. would you have time to see a therapist maybe once a week for 3 or 4 sessions or as many as you need. dont say you dont need it. when i dealt with my dad dying of cancer - on my return to work after medical leave, the first thing work did was make sure i knew i had the option of seeing a counsellor if i needed to.

2. what would you like to see happen. can you make a list of that. just put it down on paper. how would you like the gym to handle this situation IF it were to happen again? or what do they need to do to avoid it. asking for a lifeguard is not going to probably make it because they might not be able to afford one.

i really wouldnt care if they called me or didnt. what i would be interested to learn is what are they going to do in future. what are they going to do to make sure this does not happen again.

i really cannot imagine them sweeping this under the carpet. i am assuming they are working on internal policies. maybe talk to the person who helped you and see if he has heard anything.

perhaps visit another gym. see and question what they would do if such a thing happened in their gym.

i would also file a report of exactly what you did - all the observations so they have a blow by blow account of what happened.

mama you have had a profound, life altering moment. please get the help you might need to help you through this.


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

You are a hero.







Thank you for saving that child's life.

Talk to the mom. In her shoes I would want to know what happened.

And do think about a couple of counseling sessions for yourself. What a terrifying experience.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

There is only one person responsible for the child: his parents.

If you want to blame the pool, blame them for not kicking the kid out of the pool when his father didn't get in with him.

I would tell the mom.

Thank goodness you were there and took care of him when his father was not.

If you don't like the pool policies, then the gym should absolutely refund any feels you paid so you can join a different gym.

I have had PTSD. It sucks. You may benefit from not being in the building for a while.

I suspect you are going to find that this was the first time anything like this has happened and that they are going to be more careful in the future about checking ages.

I would NOT expect the gym to make a lot of admissions about how much better they are going to do, because unfortunately, though the person responsible in this event is the dad, they have reason to fear that dad will sue them and use anything they say as an admission that it really WAS their responsibility to keep this kid safe. And this is a private facility that explicitly, never assumed that responsibility.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

Holy crap. I dont' even know where to start... other than to say thank you for saving his life! And I too would be calling media - your local paper, tv station, radio station, etc and telling them. Get it out there. And yeah, I'd be demanding a refund too and finding a different gym. Cause' they obviously don't really care about anything besides their own a$$ and whether they were liable or not. The fact that other employees don't even really know what happend? Insane. And honestly, given their respones, I'd bet its happend before and will *SURELY* happen again, if you and other people don't *MAKE* them change. Good luck!!


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## Momma Moo Martin (May 24, 2009)

I know there have been a lot of replies to this thread already but I couldn't not say something to you. First of all, thank you for what you did. The universe works in beautiful, wonderful ways. I know you joining the gym and being there that day with your babies safe and secure in that moment was fate at its finest. If I were you, I would continue to call and show up at the gym until you get to speak with the manager. This is not acceptable at all and if the problems aren't addressed it could happen to another child. I would also cancel my membership and demand a full refund. I would certainly talk to the mother and the little boy for your own closure and maybe their closure as well. I am so sorry you had to go through this but so grateful that you were capable of what you did.


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

wow. i almost didn't read this because I have a seven year old and reading anything like this about kids (in general), especially kids around his age, always makes me cry.

I'm so glad there was a happy ending. You and the gym instructor and the others who helped (yea kids!) are amazing and should be so proud of yourselves. as for the dad ... . just don't know what to say . .. .

anyway, be gentle with yourself the next little while. what a terrifying experience. give yourself time to process it.


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## sahli29 (Jan 23, 2004)

Thank God you were there and saved this boys life.The father is a....you know.

Consider contacting media to share what you posted here.In the least the letter to editor at papers to stress the need for parents to watch/be with their kids.A parent can not watch all kids. The gym needs to make changes.Increase fees to cover life guards and/or training of current staff.If the boy had died would they then make changes? Make them now to prevent future deaths.

Again,so wonderful that you saved that little guy.I think of my own 8yo boy,and pray if I am not there then someone like you is.That family is so lucky.And again the father....what is up with him? To busy on his Iphone???


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

I am not sure what made me click onto this post other than I have a six year old.

Thank you so much for being so brave in such a scary situation. You have saved a life, and there are no words to show what that means. Every breath that boy takes is a miracle. Thank you!

And I would contact the news. Immediately. They can get the tapes and show the incident with a follow up from the LIVING boy!!


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## momtoS (Apr 12, 2006)

Wow. Thank goodness you happened to be at the pool. Sadly, three years ago (with several lifeguards on duty) a 7 year drown in my communities pool. He was supposed to be supervised by his assistant (he was autistic). They found him in the bottom of the deep end. It is a sad memory for me.

You saved this little boy. Could you talk to his mom and ask if you could see him? Prehaps that would get the image of his lifeless face out of your mind a bit?

There should definitely be lifeguards or very strict access policies for the pool. Keep calling.

HUGS TO YOU.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I am so glad you were there and able to save that boy's life, thank you.








I don't know even know what else to say.... I am horrified by what you described and I am so incredibly moved by you...you are the only reason that child is still here.


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## linchi (Sep 21, 2009)

I clicked on this link and pushed through reading it. First off I am so thankful for you and the people who were able to help the little boy. It goes to show that training in CPR and first aid is really, really important. Maybe this post will help inspire others to get trained / re-fresh - I know it has for me!


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## mojobin (Jun 9, 2010)

Parents need to be in the water with their kids or kids need to be wearing life jackets at least until they have really learned water safety and how to save themselves by treading water and floating. Swim lessons are important, but they do not replace supervision.

I think you are probably experiencing some PTSD. Saving someone's life is no small matter. Perhaps a session with a therapist would help. You are a HERO! and so are the girls you were with.


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## mumkimum (Nov 14, 2006)

Wow.







for you and that kid.

If you're getting rude responses from the gym, trying to talk with someone about this - write a letter or send an email. If it's written down it will have to get dealt with (unlike the way phone calls can get brushed off) and it'll at least be in the right people's radar that there's been problems with their policy, and I'd hope they'd do something about that then (like at least put more emphasis on what proper supervision IS).


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I agree with the pp's that say to contact the media. These are the kinds of stories that investigative TV reporters LOVE to uncover. They will demand the videos, they will expose the negligence, and probably even the flaky father would get some questions that might be necessary (I agree he sounds like he was high or something... um, if your child is lifeless and has voided themselves that's not the reaction an attentive caring parent has).

Unfortunately, as is usually the case, until this affects the gym FINANCIALLY, they aren't going to do anything. Training costs money and at this point, they think they've dodged a bullet because the kid is O.K. They will continue to try to sweep it under the rug.

When I read your story I was so scared that it would have a bad ending. You're an amazing person and that little boy was lucky that you and your friends were at the pool that day. I would be angry, too. If it were me, I would NOT let this incident just disappear. I would be the squeaky wheel until I got some answers and the gym had to face some accountability. Oh, and I'd demand my membership fees back tout de suite.


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## ellairiesmom (Mar 20, 2008)

wow. WOW. i was reading & sitting here horrified. and then i started reading faster & my heart was pounding. thank god you few were able to react. as someone else said it-you breathed life back into that little boy. you are amazing.

i have had cpr on my "to do" list since having both babies. now i am really going to get it done. thank you.

it almost sounds like a little PTSD & i really think you should talk it out with a professional-maybe a session or 2. you want to be able to process it all & someone can help you with it.

i was hoping i would get to the end of the thread & find an update about talking to the mom this morning. if it were me, i would want to know all the details of the situation. what she does with it, is up to her. but she should know. and as stated before-maybe you can see him alive & well sometime soon which could help you.

as for the gym-def go to the press. get them to "break" the story. i know the gym has signs up & the parents are ultimately responsible for the "incident", but the gym's reaction after is all them.

hugs mama. you are amazing. thank you for sharing & for saving him.


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## txbikegrrl (Jul 20, 2006)

I'm sorry for what you went through but glad you were able to help save s life. In terms of counseling, you might want to contact the Red Cross. They have trauma teams trained to help people who were in a fire, plane crash, hurricane, earthquake, etc. I'd think they have someone who deals with water related situations also. It should be free. It's not therapy but trauma debriefing. National Organization for Victims Assistsnce (NOVA) has resources too. Or at least find a therapist who deals with trauma.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Thank you so much, we need more people like you.

I wish I could say your story had a happy ending but I still feel sick to my stomach.

I do agree with the PP who pointed out that the primary responsibility lays on the father. It's easy to go after the gym because they usually (and should) have policies and procedures and so on. That's not to say I don't think you should pursue the issue with them, I think you should, and I thank you for doing that as well.

If (when?) you talk to the mother, I think I'd try to get her to talk first. Ask her how Mikey is. Ask what Mikey said about it. Ask what she thought about the incident. Then when you've gotten a sense for how she sees the incident, tell her "actually, you said ____ but I think you would want to know what really happened." Maybe even "I think you'd want to know even if it's hard for you to hear."


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

Can I add that the very first thing that I would do after my son is better is meet the person that saved his life?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

If it were me I would definitely be contacting the media as well...nothing like a little media attention to jump start some positive changes sometimes.

As PPs have said, it is perfectly normal for you to feel very shaken by this and continue to think about it. Take care of yourself (make sure you are getting enough sleep and rest and eating well) and talk to someone/several people who understand how you are feeling. It doesn't have to be a professional counselor unless you feel the need to talk to someone like that...talking to anyone who understands will help you process. This will probably be something you think about a lot for a long time, and as time goes on the amount that you think about it will decrease. It's normal for that to happen.

Please think twice before calling CPS about the father. You have seen him ONE time in a very stressful situation. He may have been in shock himself, he may have had no idea how to cope, maybe he felt he could best help by checking on his other child or searching for mom...you have no idea what was going on in his head. Sure it doesn't sound like we think a "normal" reaction would be, especially from a mom's standpoint, but calling CPS is not something to be taken lightly. The family has already been through a great deal of trauma and calling CPS and having them investigated for nothing more than the father acting oddly in a very stressful situation would only add to it. People seem to think they should just call CPS in any questionable situation as it can't hurt, and that is simply NOT true from the family's standpoint.

Talk to mom...she would probably like to hear from you what happened, and to have someone to talk to. You can mention dad's reaction...she might very well be able to explain exactly why he acted that way (if she chooses).


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *homebirthing* 
Can I add that the very first thing that I would do after my son is better is meet the person that saved his life?

If you knew his life was saved. Sounds like it's actually possible that she doesn't know this, due to all the coverups and blase attitudes.


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## LauraLoo (Oct 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
*I do agree with the PP who pointed out that the primary responsibility lays on the father.* It's easy to go after the gym because they usually (and should) have policies and procedures and so on. That's not to say I don't think you should pursue the issue with them, I think you should, and I thank you for doing that as well.

This. When we joined our gym, we signed a membership form. I'm wondering if this gym *clearly* outline the pool policies and safeguards - such as, "There is no life guard on duty and parents are responsible for their children." I don't think that not having a lifeguard is adequate and having psuedo deck guards with minimal rescue training is enough, so I wouldn't have likely joined this gym.

Also, remember that Mikey's mother works at this gym -- she may need her job and media coverage may make it difficult for her to return. Mikey's mom has an opportunity for recourse if she seeks it. She is in the best position to work through any changes that need to occur at this gym. If it were me, I would seek her out, find out how everything is going with Mikey and if she wants additional information. Frankly, I can't even imagine the conversations that are happening right now with Mikey's parents. Being under water for 7 min. is not a good thing. There may be permanent brain damage from lack of oxygen.

Typically, when an accident like this happens the police are brought in. At minimum, an accident report would have been filled out at the hospital. How much of an investigation they do depends on a lot of factors. A call to the police department as a witness may also be another way to help them.


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## mlec (May 29, 2005)

Props to you! I have no doubt you're traumatized.

I would definitely talk to the mom about the situation and give her an exact play by play of what happened. She may not even be aware of what transpired since the gym is whitewashing and who knows what her dh told her.

I would also talk to the boy, too. He may NEED to talk to you to process his own trauma. Also the girls involved.

I would also go to the media re the gym's negligence and subsequent cover-up.

And you may be interested in a book on healing childhood trauma (or for the 10 y/o girl) called Trauma Through a Child's Eye's by Peter Levine.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Ughh.. how horrible! It's amazing that it all worked out well in the end.

The gym is covering their butts. They can't just talk to you over the phone. I am sure they were told to be quiet. So, I'd just drop it for now.

I hope the dad was just in shock or denial. But, it sure made him look like an idiot. As if making jokes could make this not real. (My dad was like that.. he would have walked away)

Kids drown.. even under the best conditions. Obviously, if Dad had been paying attention, he might have noticed. But, it's so incredibly common here in Arizona. Each time, I wonder "How could that happen??" But, I don't ever say it out loud, because it happens, and it could happen to me one day. Kids don't fight it, they just silently go under and they never flail or make noise. It's so silent. I've had kids I was watching go under like this. I stand up and look at them and think "Well, get UP!", but they don't. You have to go after them.


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## liliaceae (May 31, 2007)

How traumatic for you and the girls! How is the girl who found him doing? Has she been to a counselor? I can't imagine being a part of something like that as an adult, let alone a 10 year old child.

I agree that you should contact the media, and talk to the mother to see how Mikey is doing.

I'm so glad you were all able to save that little boy. You are most definitely a hero.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Thank you for being that child's momma bear when he needed one.

I have seen people starting to drown and been the one screaming for help with blase lifeguards not paying attention.

Last year, my DH was faster than 911, going to buy benadryl and coming back while I was having an anaphylactic reaction to an abx.

The more 'emergencies' I encounter in my life the more I realize you can't rely on anyone to do anything even if it is their job.

V


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MandyB* 
Thank you for your responses, and for even getting through the whole post! I asked them why they don't have lifeguards (I think I always thought the deck employees were lifeguards, but they just didnt announce it so people would watch their kids, ya know?) He told me they have no lifeguards on PURPOSE because then people by law would be allowed to leave their kids at the pool and go work out, and they don't want them doing that. I'm in CA...anyone know if this is true?

I can't imagine that's true. We're not in CA, but at our Y, we have lifeguards, but parents still have to stay with children under a certain age (not sure what because mine are 3 and 5. Children are only to be left in the childcare center while you're working out.

Yes, I would call the gym repeatedly. At this point, I'd actually probably just show up and insist that I be seen. Who owns the gym? Could you contact that person instead of the manager? If I owned the business, I'd want to know about something like that. I would imagine the swim instructor who helped you needs some kind of closure, too, and it probably would be beneficial to both of you to talk to someone at the gym about what happened. I would think for the sake of liability that someone would have asked for your side of the story already.

Who knows why the dad wasn't watching, but he probably was in shock when you and the swim instructor were doing CPR. I've seen plenty of people who just shut down. We had a friend whose daughter died, and she seemed totally calm through the whole thing. It wasn't until months later that she broke down over it, but many people thought it was weird that she acted like nothing was wrong during the wake & funeral. Without anything telling me anything else, I'd say it probably was an automatic coping mechanism.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MandyB* 
The reason I think they AREN'T talking to the employees is because everytime it's been mentioned, nobody seems to know about it. One daycare employee asked another manager if she knew about it, and she told the same wierd story the front desk person is telling. They're saying he was in a swim lesson with the instructor {um, no} and got over exhausted, so the instructor began CPR. The story doesn't even make sense! Why would you do CPR unless he was gone?!

I just wanted to add that there may be confidentiality concerns - employee's may have been instructed not to talk about it to ensure confidentiality. The gym's lawyers have most likely told everyone to keep their mouths shut.

ETA - i was a lifeguard for about 5 years, and I will never entrust my child's life to a lifeguard. I was a good guard, I had good guards that I worked with, I made several saves (but never performed CPR on anyone - at the YMCA camp I worked at we were required to notice and respond within 30seconds of a child going under, and same at the cuty pools I worked at). But, that said, some of the lifeguards I have seen are absolutely DISGRACEFUL and shouldn't be working. I also won't go to any pools that don't have lifeguards, b/c I tend to still sweep the pool and watch kids carefully.


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## VroomieMama (Oct 9, 2008)

Thank God for YOU! I bet that this boy will always remember the lady and two men saving his life!


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
But, that said, some of the lifeguards I have seen are absolutely DISGRACEFUL and shouldn't be working. .

I live next to a very large waterpark. Last year, my 16 yr old's friends were hired as lifeguards. I was shocked. Two of these friends are the dippiest girls in the entire town. How on earth they were hired to protect kids is beyond me. These girls took some lifeguard training classes, and that's all they had to do. There is absolutely no way, these kids would have reacted correctly in an emergency. (the other girl would be awesome in an emergency)

I lost all faith in the wisdom of waterpark management after that.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Slightly OT but important:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
I have had PTSD. It sucks. You may benefit from not being in the building for a while.

This. I just wanted to say your first post had PTSD written all over it. PTSD is the natural, normal reaction to such a violent, traumatic event. Take care of yourself. Find a way for you to get through this, at the pace you need. Maybe you will want to talk with a therapist who has dealt with PTSD, maybe you will want to write about it, maybe you will have to talk about it 500 more times... whatever it is, find they way to take care of yourself.


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## Qestia (Sep 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifeguard* 
It sounds like the father was probably in shock - many people are completely immobolized by shock.

Yeah this. I am one of those people. I can't imagine being immobile if one of my kids was in danger, but, I remember working in a bookstore when one of our customers just keeled over. I just totally froze. I was waiting for her to get back up. Fortunately my coworkers called an ambulance and called out to see if there was a doctor in the house (there were two browsing for books!) while I just stood there stupidly.

But also what other people said--please take care of yourself right now, it must have been a very traumatic experience and I'm sure it will take awhile to recover.

Thank God the boy was ok.


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## Pirogi (Apr 5, 2007)

Thank you for acting when others couldn't.









First, take care of you. You have been through an incomprehensible ordeal, and you need to process this.

If/when you feel up to it, here are some things you may want to suggest that the gym adopt:

1. Recommend that the gym hire lifeguards that are adult-child-infant CPR/AED trained. CPR/AED may be a lifeguard requirement anyway, but specifying this training is never a bad idea.

2. If they can't/won't employ lifeguards, recommend that the gym require that every member acknowledge in writing that there are no lifeguards available. Have them post large signs in the swimming area (if they don't already have them) that there are no lifeguards available. Have them require that the deck guards have CPR/AED training for adult/child/infant.

3. Recommend that they post a simple CPR guide, much like the choking guides that you see posted in restaurants. http://depts.washington.edu/learncpr/quickcpr.html and http://depts.washington.edu/learncpr/childrencpr.html have great examples. This could be posted in the pool area and in other areas of the gym as well.

4. Have them purchase an AED and KEEP IT IN AN AREA OF THE GYM AWAY FROM THE POOL. This is important because current CPR guidelines recommend rescue breathing and chest compressions for two minutes on children under about age 8 before using an AED. Most children under age 8 will respond to CPR best. If the AED is more than a two minutes' run away from the pool area, that would be ideal.

If you decide to approach the mother, tread very gently. I can't imagine my child almost dying in my absence, and if the story she has heard is substantially different from what actually happened, it could be very difficult for her to process. I would personally not include any details about the child's father's reaction. Although shocking and inappropriate to bystanders, I honestly heard a dad who was helpless and embarassed by his own helplessness, rather than an abusive or uncaring person.

Phew! What a stressful situation. Take some time and space for yourself, mama.


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## lerlerler (Mar 31, 2004)

Hooray for you and a healthy ending.

I'm in CA and we have lifeguards at my gym/pool. Many of them. Usually 5 lifeguards for one 25 yeard pool plus 2 foot kiddie pool. ANd they are all really well trained
There's a sign posted that ONLY children who can swim halfway across the pool, swim back and exit the pool by the side (not the steps) are allowed in the pool without a parent IN THE POOL


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## poppan (Mar 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
There is only one person responsible for the child: his parents.

If you want to blame the pool, blame them for not kicking the kid out of the pool when his father didn't get in with him.

I would tell the mom.

Thank goodness you were there and took care of him when his father was not.











As someone who almost drowned as a child--thank you for your quick action and to your friends' girls for finding the boy. I think it's pretty terrible that the gym's employees didn't know what to do, but also think the responsibility lies squarely at the father's feet as he was the supervising parent who brought the child to the pool and there were clearly no lifeguards on duty. At my gym the "deck supervisors" are just glorified janitors so I'm not too surprised at what happened, assuming your gym is anything like mine at least. (BTW I'm also in CA... I almost wonder if it's the same chain of gyms.)

I would find a way to talk to the mom about it and see what she thinks happened--and give her more info if needed. Maybe dad was just in shock or maybe there is something else up, and I think mom ought to have all the pieces of info so she can make a judgment whether she can send her son off with his dad by themselves again.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I had a hard time separating the two dad issues but my husband (to whom I told this story) helped me see it.

1) Dad's reaction was ... baffling. Some have pointed out it could have been shock.

2) Dad left a 6 year old child completely unsupervised in a pool for long enough for him to drown, be found by non-lifeguards (that is, people who were not watching him) and have life support begun.

We don't know if the reaction was blase or shock - it makes me sick to my stomach but I admit he could be a loving, concerned father who was having trouble grasping the situation even when they carted him away in an ambulance (I can't believe he didn't get in the ambulance either... you have a terrified 6 year old who drowned, you stay with him. You deal with the car or whatever later).

But, the lack of supervision is something else. I fervently hope the gravity of the situation has sunk in with the father. I have made safety mistakes myself (none with serious consequences I'm glad to say), and while I can't see myself making this particular one, I can see how a loving and concerned parent might have just, I don't know, gone to the bathroom to take a dump or something, figuring his kid was a good swimmer and in water he could stand up in, and that taking a dump would only take a couple minutes. A very bad decision but you can see someone making it.

It's the combination of the lack of supervision and the (non) reaction to the drowning that makes me sick to my stomach. If he had indeed left his son and came back to find him drowned and reacted like I would imagine most people would, I would have felt like "whew, glad this turned out ok." But you combine blase parenting and blase reaction to a death (even if revived) - it just makes me want to throw up.

I can only hope that it's sunk in with him by now.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

This was posted on Facebook today by Kellymom.com. Could be useful to many of us reading this thread:
http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/drowning?10981


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pirogi* 
Thank you for acting when others couldn't.









First, take care of you. You have been through an incomprehensible ordeal, and you need to process this.

If/when you feel up to it, here are some things you may want to suggest that the gym adopt:

1. Recommend that the gym hire lifeguards that are adult-child-infant CPR/AED trained. CPR/AED may be a lifeguard requirement anyway, but specifying this training is never a bad idea.

2. If they can't/won't employ lifeguards, recommend that the gym require that every member acknowledge in writing that there are no lifeguards available. Have them post large signs in the swimming area (if they don't already have them) that there are no lifeguards available. Have them require that the deck guards have CPR/AED training for adult/child/infant.

3. Recommend that they post a simple CPR guide, much like the choking guides that you see posted in restaurants. http://depts.washington.edu/learncpr/quickcpr.html and http://depts.washington.edu/learncpr/childrencpr.html have great examples. This could be posted in the pool area and in other areas of the gym as well.

4. Have them purchase an AED and KEEP IT IN AN AREA OF THE GYM AWAY FROM THE POOL. This is important because current CPR guidelines recommend rescue breathing and chest compressions for two minutes on children under about age 8 before using an AED. Most children under age 8 will respond to CPR best. If the AED is more than a two minutes' run away from the pool area, that would be ideal.

If you decide to approach the mother, tread very gently. I can't imagine my child almost dying in my absence, and if the story she has heard is substantially different from what actually happened, it could be very difficult for her to process. I would personally not include any details about the child's father's reaction. Although shocking and inappropriate to bystanders, I honestly heard a dad who was helpless and embarassed by his own helplessness, rather than an abusive or uncaring person.

Phew! What a stressful situation. Take some time and space for yourself, mama.


I loved your post - you had so many excellent , practical, productive suggestions.

To the OP, huge hugs. I've never been in a situation like the one you described, but I did pull an unattended toddler from our local pool last summer. I was shocked and angry that no one else noticed him go under, and that I had to search for his parents. For my own sanity, I have to believe that this was one of those one-time mistakes made by otherwise good parents, and just be greatful that on that day, I noticed and acted (even when I felt really silly running across the pool without being 100% sure his parents weren't already on their way).


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
This was posted on Facebook today by Kellymom.com. Could be useful to many of us reading this thread:
http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/drowning?10981

Very interesting read, thanks for linking.

OP, thanks for being that little boy's hero. Many hugs to you mama.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
This was posted on Facebook today by Kellymom.com. Could be useful to many of us reading this thread:
http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/drowning?10981

I was just about to post that link!


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## Mountaingirl79 (Jul 12, 2008)

Thank you so much for being there for this little boy. My heart broke when I read it but we must remember life is precious and to be extra safe this summer!


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

I think it sounds like the dad was in shock. My husband had an accident in November... home repairs and a beam fell on his head. I remember hesitating about giving him one of my *good* towels to catch the blood... and joking in the car as I was driving him to the ER that he just did this so he can cut his hair again (I like it long, he likes it short). It seems so horrible now, I mean I didn't even know if he had a skull fracture or major brain damage (no, and minor) and here I am making stupid jokes and worrying about stupid towels. Trauma is a very strange thing.


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## poppan (Mar 8, 2008)

Quote:

i had a hard time separating the two dad issues but my husband (to whom i told this story) helped me see it.

1) dad's reaction was ... Baffling. Some have pointed out it could have been shock.

2) dad left a 6 year old child completely unsupervised in a pool for long enough for him to drown, be found by non-lifeguards (that is, people who were not watching him) and have life support begun.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

First, thank you for being both willing and able to act. As you saw, people like you are few and far between and the world is a better place because of you.

I would definitely put this in writing. Send the letter to the director at this particular gym facility, the risk manager at the corporate office (if its a chain, I'm sure they have one - you may be able to find an organizational chart on the website), and copy your local TV stations. If you have a local TV news station that does "consumer fraud" sorts of things (you know -- "I was ripped off by this big corporation and they won't talk to me" sorts of stories), that would be the perfect intro.

Things in writing are always better than a phone call in these situations.

And yes, please make sure you take care of yourself. These things are traumatic and you may well feel better after both taking action and talking to a counselor of some type.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

I want to clarify a couple things that have been posted: As far as I know Lifegaurds are reuired to also be trained for infants and children. (I was trained in all and AED) Its a Professional Rescuer level of first aid and CPR/AED training required.

Also, the class isn't just a couple day thing if its a red cross sponsored one. If its a good course it should be near 40+ hours to complete and extensive training and testing. I know when I was done with each day of mine (it was a month long class) I was WIPED out tired and I'm a pretty good swimmer. If it seems like a class is just passing anyone I'd seriously question the instructor and talk to the local red cross office (if that is who is conducting it) about it.

There are good lifegaurds and bad ones. And it also depends on what the facility requires for continued training and policies. I know ours required a inservice meeting once a month to refresh on skills. They also had strict policies about no phones, no books, you could do nothing but watch the pool. No gaurds were allowed to work shifts longer than 3-4 hours at a time either. Before the current lifegaurd was hired on they had lax rules and there was even a report of a gaurd sleeping on duty. WTH? So yeah, there are good and bad.

If in doubt, ask what the training requirements are at the pool you swim at, who does the training/certification, what ongoing trainings are done and specific policies they may have in place.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

You've already been told everything I would say. Thank you so much for being quick to respond and paying attention to your surroundings. You are a wonderful person.


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## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

so glad to hear the boy is ok. Please keep us updated on the story. Unfortunately it did not end so well for this little boy:
http://www.app.com/article/20100629/...-family-s-pool
This was the son of a friend of mine from high school - grandma was watching him and went out front for a smoke, the boy slipped out the unlocked back door. It was all over in a couple of minutes......so sad.


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## *bejeweled* (Jul 16, 2003)

Thank God for people like you.


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Mandy- Wanted to send you a huge









That little boy would not be alive without you! Have you considered contacting the local newspaper?

I just wanted to link over to this thread, for anyone who has NOT seen it:
*'PSA: Drowning...aka "I had NO idea it looked like that"*'
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...php?p=15587842

Also, these are much older threads, but someone used to post a version of it almost every single year:
"*The Pool - study finds most children drown while supervised "*
2004: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=151496
2006: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=468167
2007: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=151496


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Mandy, it's truly wonderful that you saved this little boy's life. It's truly awful that his father wasn't supervising him.

It's inexcusable that a member of the staff was so rude to you when you called. If you remember her name I think you should let management know exactly what she said.

And, it would be nice if everyone knew better how to act in a life and death emergency. I sure hope I'll remember what to do and act as quickly as you did should I ever face one.

But I don't see how any of this was the fault of the facility. They clearly stated that there was no lifeguard on duty and parents needed to supervise their children. True, a staff person probably should have thought to send you a thank you card or something...

That said, if I were a member there, I'd hate to see more rules instituted which essentially punish ALL parents and children because SOME parents don't care to ensure their children's safety.

It's become so depressing at our local neighborhood pool. They won't let the children wear waterwings or use kickboards or anything. Our 10-year-old's a strong swimmer, but it'd be so nice for me if our 5-year-old could wear the wings so I could swim at her side and get some exercise myself instead of needing to stand up and hold her.

Don't get me wrong: I don't "trust" waterwings to guard the safety of my child. I'd still be there at her side to help her should she run into any trouble. But, from what the pool staff has told me, they quit allowing waterwings because some parents think their children don't need supervision if they're wearing them.

It's a real drag. I wish our neighborhood pool just had a sign that said "swim at your own risk" because I watch over my own children whether there's a lifeguard on duty or not. These days, we drive 30 minutes to swim at a lake and get away from all these pesky rules.

I'd hate to think that if someone at this lake wasn't watching their child and there was a tragedy, the lake would start "cracking down" and become another oppressive place. Maybe some parents feel safer when there's a lifeguard on duty, and rules rules rules up the wazoo -- but I say parents just need to watch their kids. Period.


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## Earthy Mama (Jun 4, 2004)

We were at a family reunion Saturday and about 10 kids or more were in the pool at any given time. I'm very disappointed in dp's family that I was the ONLY one constantly scanning the pool to make sure all heads were either above water level or about to come up.
DP's neice (19 yo) just left me in charge at the last minute of her 6 yo sister who can't swim, has CP, AND just had surgery a few months ago on her leg so she could leave because she was bored.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

And see, I would never leave a 19-year-old, even one who's a lifeguard, in charge of my 6-year-old. Dh and I don't trust anyone but ourselves to supervise our children in the water when they're that young.

We did just recently let our 10-year-old, who swims really well, go swimming with our neighbors who we trust really well. This was a big first for us. I can't imagine doing that with a 6-year-old. And our oldest was actually swimming well by age 6, but we just always felt that one of us needed to be with her in the water at that age.

I do very strongly feel that no one can be as aware of my child in the water as dh or I can. Maybe that's why I don't care if there's a lifeguard on duty. I don't even trust them to be tuned in to my child.

I guess the rules really need to be there for those few children who have parents who couldn't care less about their safety in the water. It just makes it constrictive for the rest of us who'd like to swim freely, but have to resort to swimming in public places 'cause we can't afford to build our own pool or dig our own lake.


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## laila2 (Jul 21, 2007)

Swimming lessons start in late July for us. Our city ran gym in Ca does not let children under 7 be unattended. There are life guards.

Your experience sounds horrendous and I am sorry you are getting such a hard time from the gym. You deserve better.

At our gym at swimming lessons, a mom I know noticed her daughter in trouble on the first day of a new session, which is usually chaotic. The instructors were trying to organize amongst themselves while their charges were in the pool. Her little girl, 4, left the side of the pool, was struggling face down. The mom rushed to get her. The life gaurds did not notice till she reprimanded them loudly infront of all. I was so proud of her. She told me later that the little girl said, "mommy I was drownding and nobody was helping me".

It is good for us to hear these stories making us careful.


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## Gypsymama22girls (Sep 23, 2007)

You are truly a hero!!!

I agree with the PP who said to contact the media. I think they will do some sort of expose about the safety of pools or whatever. I hope that something good comes of this horrible situation. Although, Thank G-d the boy is ok.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
It's become so depressing at our local neighborhood pool. They won't let the children wear waterwings or use kickboards or anything. Our 10-year-old's a strong swimmer, but it'd be so nice for me if our 5-year-old could wear the wings so I could swim at her side and get some exercise myself instead of needing to stand up and hold her.

Don't get me wrong: I don't "trust" waterwings to guard the safety of my child. I'd still be there at her side to help her should she run into any trouble. But, from what the pool staff has told me, they quit allowing waterwings because some parents think their children don't need supervision if they're wearing them.

Waterwings are dangerous because 3-4-5 year old nonswimmers forget that they took them off, don't have them on yet, etc. and jump into deep water quickly and quietly. Waterwings also slow down swim learning in many children.

They should swim test for the kickboards rather than banning them outright.


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## mntnmom (Sep 21, 2006)

First, you did a great job.







I hope I can be that collected if I ever have to be. Second, if you continue to get no satisfaction from the gym, write a letter to the editor at your local paper. Legally, the gym is probably covered. But clearly something wasn't working and this poor little guy paid the price!


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## RiverTam (May 29, 2009)

_But I don't see how any of this was the fault of the facility. They clearly stated that there was no lifeguard on duty and parents needed to supervise their children. True, a staff person probably should have thought to send you a thank you card or something..._

It's irresponsible to have a pool and not have lifeguards. My family doesn't belong to facilities that don't have lifeguards. (Our YMCA has lifeguards and requires parents to be in the pool in arm's reach of kids who are under 7 and are non-swimmers.)

I don't care if they have legal liability or not. I wouldn't belong to a club that has a pool and doesn't have a lifeguard. If they can pay "deck supervisors," they can pay lifeguards. It's only fifty cents an hour more.

It should be the parents' responsibility, but plenty of parents are idiots. If you own a facility, you should take some responsibility for your premises and for the kids on your premises.

I didn't have this opinion because I'm a non-swimmer, BTW. I'm an ex-high school swimmer who is currently trains for Olympic distance triathlons. I was a lifeguard in high school.

It's pretty common for a lot of people to stand around in a drowning situation. People don't know what to do. They panic. They hang back because they're poor swimmers. It's important to have a life guard there, because the life guard knows what to do, is capable of implementing the rescue, and can be the designated person in charge.

OP gets huge props for jumping in when nobody else was willing to do it. You're a hero.


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## crunchymomofmany (May 24, 2007)

Just saw your first post - haven't read through most of the replies but just wanted to say that your story made me cry. I just feel so bad for the boy and you. What an amazing person you are.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

OP i havent read the recent replies so if this has already been said please ignore this.

your title is a little misleading. and it was even more terrifying to read.

so instead of saying 'Drowned' (which means past event. which means he is already dead) it would really be helpful if you said 'nearly or almost drowned'.


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

I think he did drown and die. They brought him back to life.


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## sleepingbeauty (Sep 1, 2007)

http://www.momlogic.com/2010/07/drow...ning_signs.php

I read this article a few days ago. I hope no one ever has to use the info in it, but everyone should give it a read.


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

I only read the original post-
wow, that is horrible. I feel like crying right now from reading it. I am so sorry you had to experience that on every level. I am so sorry that little boy had to experience that. I am so sorry the dad is- I don't have a word for it that is appropriate to use here








I am so sorry everyone didn't help you and the poor little boy :cry
I am so glad you saved his life. This may be in this long thread but have you seen the boy since then? Have you called social services to check his family out? I feel very teary eyed from this story.


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

now I re read the whole posts and I have something else to add. Just because the mom seemed nice and had attachment parenting things going on, does not mean the family should still not be checked out by someone- evaluated. From the story you told, that father needs to be evaluated. so sad


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## fyrwmn (Jan 5, 2009)

one thing that you mentioned stuck out to me...that you couldn't remember when the breaths were supposed to be done. please don't beat yourself up over that, if you are. even as a full time emt, i have a hard time remembering sometimes, as they keep changing the standards on us. and i think the lay person standards still have the breathing removed altogether with just compressions being done. you acted, and that's what counts!

if you contact the police dept, fire dept, or hospital, they should be able to point you in the direction of someone to talk to who may be more qualified in tis type of circumstance than a regular therapist. around here it's referred to as 'critical incident stress debriefing'.


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## Angela512 (Dec 22, 2007)

I'm coming into this thread really late...and I haven't read all the replies...but after a few attempts at contacting the manager and asst. manager, I would have flat out told them that I was going to the local paper about this. You would be amazed at how quickly people respond when they hear they are going to be in the paper and answering to reporters (especially if it's something bad). Reporters will keep going after the story long after you cannot.

I would totally consider doing that if you still haven't gotten an answer to your, very understandable and concerning, question.

Sorry this happened to you...but that little boy owes you and the others who helped you his life. So while I'm sorry it happened, I'm glad you were there. I hope you are feeling better.


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## sillymom23 (Apr 7, 2010)

OH MY GOD! You saved that boys life. That is absolutely horrible what happened! I would definitely try to get the policy about there being no lifeguard on duty changed. You really are a hero!


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

Thank God this boy did not drown. The title made me think otherwise.

Your friend's daughter helped to save his life. I hope she understands the magnitude of her courage and strength. You, too.









I would be angry too. I would not join a gym like that. They are not dealing with reality and attempting to cover their a**.... I would ask for my money back and go somewhere where a trained lifeguard is present with children.

Send that little boy an encouraging note about how strong and valuable he is. That was probably traumatic for him and he needs to know how others saw HIM in that situation. Encourage the girl who saved him, too. She is probably shaken up too.


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## IBBYSMama (Jan 26, 2009)

[/QUOTE] I want to talk to her, but don't know what to say to her. I don't want to upset her more, but am not even sure if she understands the gravity what happened or not! [/QUOTE]

Mandy, you should talk to her, it might help you heal. But I agree with others you should follow your own path-


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