# Do you use 'please'?



## BaBaBa (Jun 30, 2007)

I'm looking for thoughts on the use of the word 'please' especially with a toddler.

When I want DD to do something I very plainly tell her to do it. For example, 'Pick up your toys'. I don't use please in this circumstance because I don't want to confuse her into thinking she has an option.

Now, when we're pretending I use 'please' a lot to model it. I will also use 'please' when I know she will do what I'm asking.

I just have seen so many parents using 'please' after ever thing they ask their child to do and it seems so over used, the kids stop responding.

Thoughts?


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## Justmee (Jun 6, 2005)

I use the word please. I don't see it as giving an option, rather making a request polietly. Please help me pick up the toys in the playroom vs. Pick up the toys in the playroom. I also like to be asked please. I can't stand when the kids come up to me with a pile of clothes and say "Dress me" (even with a nice voice). I'd rather hear "please help me get dressed" so I model that too.

Oh, and not that I believe in the spouse analogy for everything, but for this one I can really see it. When dh calls from work and says "pick up milk today" it puts me off and I feel like not doing it just to be difficult. Much different than "please pick up milk today" kwim?


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## woodchick (Jan 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RachelEve14* 
I use the word please. I don't see it as giving an option, rather making a request polietly. Please help me pick up the toys in the playroom vs. Pick up the toys in the playroom. I also like to be asked please. I can't stand when the kids come up to me with a pile of clothes and say "Dress me" (even with a nice voice). I'd rather hear "please help me get dressed" so I model that too.

I agree with Rachel. I use please whenever I ask for something or for someone to do something. I like to use it at the beginning of the request as well, "DD, would you please bring your cup here?"

I have an aversion to the word please used at the end, as it usually is accompanied with a pause: "Bring that cup here [pause] PLEASE." Almost as if the original command didn't work so I might as well try adding please to see if I can get my way.


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## LaLaLaLa (Oct 29, 2007)

I see "please" as a polite additive to a direction (or command, if you prefer). It is not an invitation to argue, and it doesn't turn a direction into a question. I don't see "please help me clean up your toys" as different from "help me clean up your toys" except that one is polite and one is not. Neither one is a request, and I'd expect the same response to either. "Please" is very important to me, so I model it at every opportunity. My kids are big on "please" as well as "thank you" and understand that people are much more cheerful about doing what you want them to do when you extend some common courtesy. Courtesy goes both ways, I think.


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## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

nak
We use "please", too. DS can't say it but we do have him sign it. I also model saying it to him as well. I want him to learn to be courteous and not demand things.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

I agree with you OP. I feel that using please does make it request-like and therefore confusing. Our requests are still very polite (in my opinion) without tacking on "please".

We have always said, "You may pick up your toys", "You may put away your dishes" etc unless it truly is up to the child (now that he is six a lot of things are requests rather than orders, but as a toddler we used "you may" a whole lot) We always said thank you once it was done.

I use/d please and thank you in my interactions with DS (he hands me something, he does something for me etc) and DH and other people and now he uses both please and thank you and sir and ma'am on his own.


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## bstandlee (May 14, 2007)

We use please too. I don't view it as giving an option but see it as being polite and respectful rather than giving a command. As a pp said, when someone gives me a command without the please it makes me feel resistant and not want to do it too.

On the other hand, the other day dh said, "DS, will you please put this book on the shelf?" And DS said, "Nnnnah" (his equivalent of no)! Phrased that way it is an option, as dh found out!


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## mimim (Nov 2, 2003)

I use please if I'm _asking_ them to do a favor for me. If I'm _telling_ them to do something they need to do I don't.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I absolutely use please whenever I can.

There are ways to say please and still be clear it's a requirement not request.

Please pick up your toys.

Please pick your toys up NOW.

vs.

a request would be:

Would you pick up your toys please?

-Angela


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## Shera971 (Nov 26, 2008)

I always use please and thank you when speaking to DS because that's how I want to be spoken to. I just think its good manners. Once of twice DS has responded "No" but then I clearly state that my request was not an option.


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## prescottchels (Jun 8, 2007)

As a PP said "you may" works well.
I work pt in a waldorf public school and "you may" is the magic phrase to get the children to follow directions w/o defiance, for the most part...







I love it!








I think please is a lovely word when not used by either adults or children to beg for something they want which it seems is how I hear it used most often.
My .02...
Cheers,
Chelsie


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

yes. i try to model please and thank-you or use a polite tone. i agree that it depends on "how" you say it. the result in my house varies on whether i asked a question (will you clean your room please?) or made a statement (please clean your room).


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

I agree with many of the above; 'please' doesn't turn something into a question. I don't ask "will you...?" I say "please..."

I say it all the time, and so does DD. It's also modeled at school for her, they use "please stop pushing me!"

I don't think it looses effectiveness because I'm not using it to be extra effective. I honestly think when you save "please" as the extra big-gun ask, you're more likely to see the "would you do this? "no" "pleeease??" thing.

In our house, it's just something we say when we feel like it. We don't really make a distinction between "come help" and "please come help" or "pick up your toys" and "please pick up your toys." I usually use "the toys need to be picked up right now" if I really need it urgently.


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

I don't have my own children but I use please very frequently with my students/babysitting charges. I also agree that adding it at the end can sound like an afterthought and we definitely don't want our kids saying things like "Give me another cookie.....PLEASE".

So I model it as much as possible. With my students, I tend to use it when I am making requests that are not "commands" but that I'd like to see followed through. However, they are often things that would help me out. Like "It's time to sit at the table" v. "Please help me put the books away". Does that make sense?

I also say "thank you" a lot to the children when they follow my requests or are generally helpful. I never demand that they use the words but find that modeling works very well.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I also use please as a matter of politeness and courtesy, not because whatever it is is optional. IMO, using "OK" at the end of the sentence is more of a setup for that than please (which my DH does sometimes, and it almost always backfires on him :eyeroll). And even if I *do* start the sentence with please and they say no, I'll make sure it gets done with them...I only give options when I'm OK with them picking the options..but that doesn't preclude me beign polite to them the same way I want them to be polite to me. I'd much rather hear, "Please get me some water, mom" than "Get me some water, mom", so I use the word with them the way I'd like them to use it with me.

I have an honest question for the "You may" users...to me, it feels kind of like when I'm on the phone with my husband and he says, "Well, I'l let you go now", when I had not ever mentioned needing to go







. I respond to him, "I didn't say I needed to go, but if YOU need to go or want to hang up, that's fine, just say that." It's like a passive way to turn it around on the other person instead of just saying what you mean, or at least that's how it feels to me when he says that (which he says MUCH less to me as they years go on since he knows how much it grates on me). "You may" seems like that same thing to me, like you're giving your child the "privilege" of doing something that they may or may not have had any desire to do, when it is actually what YOU want them to do, KWIM? Can you explain it to me better, how you feel it works with kids? I'd just as soon be straightforward, like, "Please pick up your toys now" or "Time to pick up your toys" or, "I need you to pick up your toys" rather than "You may pick up your toys now". But I find it interestign to read about and made me immediately think of my DH and his family. "Oh, I'll let you finish cleaning that up then." Gee. Thanks.







.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

I don't see how "please" has anything to do with options. On airplanes when they say "please buckle your seatbelts when the seatbelt sign is on," they don't mean it's optional, they are just being polite.

"Could you please" sounds like it's giving options, but not "please" on its own.


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## prescottchels (Jun 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
I have an honest question for the "You may" users...to me, it feels kind of like when I'm on the phone with my husband and he says, "Well, I'l let you go now", when I had not ever mentioned needing to go







. I respond to him, "I didn't say I needed to go, but if YOU need to go or want to hang up, that's fine, just say that." It's like a passive way to turn it around on the other person instead of just saying what you mean, or at least that's how it feels to me when he says that (which he says MUCH less to me as they years go on since he knows how much it grates on me). "You may" seems like that same thing to me, like you're giving your child the "privilege" of doing something that they may or may not have had any desire to do, when it is actually what YOU want them to do, KWIM? Can you explain it to me better, how you feel it works with kids? I'd just as soon be straightforward, like, "Please pick up your toys now" or "Time to pick up your toys" or, "I need you to pick up your toys" rather than "You may pick up your toys now". But I find it interestign to read about and made me immediately think of my DH and his family. "Oh, I'll let you finish cleaning that up then." Gee. Thanks.







.









I can see where you'd wonder about the passive aggressive possibility in using "you may". I had a boyfriend who'd use that same line on the phone w/me as your dh uses w/you and it would make me soooo angry! I can laugh now that he's not in my life, but I too value straightforward communications.
At school w/all of us using "you may" w/the kids so much we sometimes end up using it on each other lol but it doesn't feel passive/aggressive to me at all or I would not use it w/the children. When I hear someone using it w/me I realize that I pause slightly, catching that another adult has used their kid strategy on me and then realize that I'm ok w/whatever they've said "you may" to me about and kinda chuckle to myself and do what they've directed me to do.
We do realize that there is a connotation of privilege in whatever we're "you may-ing", but somehow there's ease w/it that you don't get using other phrases. When people have used it w/me I find myself saying, "oh, ok" not really giving much thought to why I'm doing what they've asked, just getting it done cuz it needs to be done. It's often said calmly, gently, simply. There's nothing to argue or rebel against. I'm not sure how it works, but it's not passive aggressive. Passive Aggressive is one of my biggest pet peaves I do not do it and don't stand for anyone being like that around me. Maybe someone else will have more/better insight about it.
Cheers,
Chelsie


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

"I'll let you go now" is the official Miss Manners-approved way of saying "I need/ want to get off the phone now," FWIW. She considers it a non-literal statement similar to "How do you do?".


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
"I'll let you go now" is the official Miss Manners-approved way of saying "I need/ want to get off the phone now," FWIW. She considers it a non-literal statement similar to "How do you do?".


OMG NO WAY! That's considered polite????? Wow. It doesn't *feel* polite to be on the receivign end of, it feels pretty dismissive, IMO. YOu want to hang up, just say you need to go. I don't get what's rude about that.

Wow.

OK, I HAD to look it up, and sure enough, here it is.

http://books.google.com/books?id=c-c...um=2&ct=result

I have to completely disagree with MM on this one, and agree with the question asker. I disagree with MM that a made up excuse to hang up is needed, just say, "It's been great talking, I have to get going now."







:.


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## Enudely (Jul 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prescottchels* 
As a PP said "you may" works well.
I work pt in a waldorf public school and "you may" is the magic phrase to get the children to follow directions w/o defiance, for the most part...







I love it!








I think please is a lovely word when not used by either adults or children to beg for something they want which it seems is how I hear it used most often.
My .02...
Cheers,
Chelsie









could you elaborate on the use of "you may"?
As in... "you may pick up your toys now..." is that how you use it?


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

Well I use please with my DS as I would use it with you. I do not think that is overused and he responds well to it....not to mention, has wonderful manners and is very polite himself without me ever having to make him mimic words like a parrot.

But I guess in our house, as we choose to live consensually - my son does have a choice. If I want him to pick up his toys - please do...why not? Same with if I want my DH to cut the grass - please do...otherwise would be rude I think! Does he have to pick up the toys? - nope... Who wants the toys picked up? - I do! So if he doesnt want to, I better get my arse in gear instead of trying to get other people to always do my bidding! lol...Same with the grass. (and those are just two examples!)


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## verde (Feb 11, 2007)

We use "please" all the time in our household. DD uses it now as well. Modeling works!

Personally I don't think there can be too much courtesy in the world.


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## carmel23 (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BaBaBa* 
I'm looking for thoughts on the use of the word 'please' especially with a toddler.

When I want DD to do something I very plainly tell her to do it. For example, 'Pick up your toys'. I don't use please in this circumstance because I don't want to confuse her into thinking she has an option.

Now, when we're pretending I use 'please' a lot to model it. I will also use 'please' when I know she will do what I'm asking.

I just have seen so many parents using 'please' after ever thing they ask their child to do and it seems so over used, the kids stop responding.

Thoughts?

I try to say please as much as possible. I think about if someone asked me to do something, how would I respond?

You catch more flies with honey.







:


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Enudely* 
could you elaborate on the use of "you may"?
As in... "you may pick up your toys now..." is that how you use it?

Yep that's how I use it. I picked it up from a mom friend of mine after desperately trying to get my son to listen to all my "pleases", for whatever reason "You may" gets him to actually follow through with what I am telling him to do, "please" did not go over well with my toddler.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

If it isn't a request, I say, "I need you to pick these things up now, please."

If I have to tell her to do something more than about twice, the word "please" seems to go away. It isn't something I do consciously but she's commented on it. I feel less friendly about it the fourth time I've had to tell her. "This needs to happen now. Did you not hear me?" "You didn't say please this time!" "No, when it's the fourth time, I'm probably not saying 'please' anymore."


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## e(Lisa)beth (Aug 17, 2007)

No kids yet, but I routinely use "please" with pretty much everyone I speak to, so I imagine I will with my kids as well.

I've been saying "you may" to myself while reading this thread and it sounds funny to me, even a little imperious. I imagine that if I said that to someone, they would sarcastically reply, "well, thanks, your highness!"







But maybe kids could interpret it differently - I guess it falls into the 'don't knock it until you've tried it' category.

FWIW, I've always thought of "I'll let you go now" on the telephone not as passive/agressive but simply as "I've taken up too much of your time, I know you need to get on with your day." Kind of self-deprecating, I guess.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

I'm not clear on how using common polite words when speaking when making a request = making the request/instruction optional.


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## BaBaBa (Jun 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breeder* 
I agree with you OP. I feel that using please does make it request-like and therefore confusing. Our requests are still very polite (in my opinion) without tacking on "please".

We have always said, "You may pick up your toys", "You may put away your dishes" etc unless it truly is up to the child (now that he is six a lot of things are requests rather than orders, but as a toddler we used "you may" a whole lot) We always said thank you once it was done.

I use/d please and thank you in my interactions with DS (he hands me something, he does something for me etc) and DH and other people and now he uses both please and thank you and sir and ma'am on his own.

Oh, this is interesting....

Don't get me wrong, I model it interacting with other adults I just wonder if it confuses a toddler.

She's polite enough for her age. She does use please when she asks for something and I think that's pretty good for just turning 2.

I do intend to use more when she's older but I can't help feeling somewhat condescending asking her to 'please get off the table' or 'please come here'. By the nature of her age she's engaged in activities that I can't compare with making the same request of other adults.

I'm beginning to feel like a brute...


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I don't say please for actions I expect to happen as please to me implies a choice. I do though thank ahead for there coperation.
Honey I need you to come upstairs and put your clothes away. Thanks sweetie your giving mommy a huge help with laundry...

Deanna


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## midnightmommy (Apr 14, 2008)

I tried the "you may" way with our son, and he took that as having options more than me asking with a please. I can understand that. To me it sounds like you are saying you may (if you want) clean your room. I normally say, "Please pick up your toys." If I get a no I tell him that it's not an optional thing. He needs to do it. If he doesn't after that please disappears.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
I'm not clear on how using common polite words when speaking when making a request = making the request/instruction optional.

please implies
"if you wish" IF its not optional I don't say please.

Deanna


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

huh, in our house please does not imply optional, I guess everyone is different.

"I need you to please pick up your Lincoln logs before getting out the music toys, thank you."


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
huh, in our house please does not imply optional, I guess everyone is different.

"I need you to please pick up your Lincoln logs before getting out the music toys, thank you."

Please is a request its this my its deffination if your asking him to pick up his lincoln logs just because it would make things easier latter but him not dong so as no biggie or as a to mean he doesn't want to so I will thats one thing (and perfectly reasonable) but if you do expect and will enforce him putting away the lincoln logs before his music toys then your not making a request and asking if he would like can be confusing.

Deanna


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

oh BTW I've seen plently of families that do use please quite freely even with the "non requests" and honestly the kids adjust fine to it so I don't think it alone causes some unecessary grief upon the child







Its just I grew up with the parent who would say please then if we didn't jump right up and do it we'd get punished and that did get confusing. So nope I don't give a please with non negiotable dirrections.

Deanna


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
Please is a request its this my its deffination if your asking him to pick up his lincoln logs just because it would make things easier latter but him not dong so as no biggie or as a to mean he doesn't want to so I will thats one thing (and perfectly reasonable) but if you do expect and will enforce him putting away the lincoln logs before his music toys then your not making a request and asking if he would like can be confusing.

Deanna

like I said, everyone is different. Saying it needs to be done, is not the same as asking if he would like to do something in our house. Saying he needs to do something means exactly that. He needs to please put away the Lincoln logs before getting out another set of toys. In our house using the word please does not mean "if you like". When I want to make something an option, I make it an option.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
oh BTW I've seen plently of families that do use please quite freely even with the "non requests" and honestly the kids adjust fine to it so I don't think it alone causes some unecessary grief upon the child







Its just I grew up with the parent who would say please then if we didn't jump right up and do it we'd get punished and that did get confusing. So nope I don't give a please with non negiotable dirrections.

Deanna

would you be punished if your parents told you to do something without using the word please and you ignored their instructions? Or were you only punished when they said please?

I try not to be a punitive parent.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
would you be punished if your parents told you to do something without using the word please and you ignored their instructions? Or were you only punished when they said please?

I try not to be a punitive parent.

Both but there was the diffrence. if they just said go clan your room then that was a dirrect order and not one we were to question. Please go pick up your room implied a choice and if we dared say something like okay I'm just about finished with XYS that implied we were taking back and we should "know" when they meant now. IT was very confusing, one moment please did legitly mean a choice. tyhr next it wasn't and we were always expected to know the diffrence. It was much worse in DH family so yes were big on this detail.

Deanna


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
Both but there was the diffrence. if they just said go clan your room then that was a dirrect order and not one we were to question. Please go pick up your room implied a choice and if we dared say something like okay I'm just about finished with XYS that implied we were taking back and we should "know" when they meant now. *IT was very confusing, one moment please did legitly mean a choice. tyhr next it wasn't and we were always expected to know the diffrence.* It was much worse in DH family so yes were big on this detail.

Deanna

But in your example, please meant a choice at times, and not at others. The inconsistency is what I find confusing. The word please wasn't the problem, it was the different meanings it had for your family at different times.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I agree that the word "please" literally is a request - it comes from "if it is your pleasure" or "if it pleases you", which means if it isn't your pleasure, or doesn't please you, then you don't have to do it. But it has at least somewhat morphed over time simply into a polite word to add to sound nicer. But I do think wording it carefully can take away some of the ambiguity potentially involved in the word. "Please do this" sounds very much like a request to me. "I need you to do this now, please" doesn't sound too much like a request to me, despite the use of "please", because of the words "need" and "now". But if it appeared to be taken as a request by my daughter, I'd simply remove the word "please", because I can see how that could cause confusion. I could also say, "I need you to do this, my love" and sound nicer.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
But in your example, please meant a choice at times, and not at others. The inconsistency is what I find confusing. The word please wasn't the problem, it was the different meanings it had for your family at different times.

no it was the please that was the issue.. It was for me and it was for DH.
no please implied no choice 100% of the time.. clean your room meant clean your room not if you'd like or anything else..
Please sometimes meant if you like other times it meant no choice it was exhausting and frustrating figuring out which we learned to just do it regardless of please or not making it sound patronizing to us. Because of this we do choose to distinguish the diffrence. (in our home). This was actually one of the first things DH and I completly saw eye to eye on because it had been such a huge issue growing up.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

We always use please. DD doesn't seem to have had issues with assuming we were simply suggesting she do something when we were asking her to do it.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
no it was the please that was the issue.. It was for me and it was for DH.
no please implied no choice 100% of the time.. clean your room meant clean your room not if you'd like or anything else..
*Please sometimes meant if you like other times it meant no choice it was exhausting and frustrating figuring out which we learned to just do it regardless of please or not making it sound patronizing to us*. Because of this we do choose to distinguish the diffrence. (in our home). This was actually one of the first things DH and I completly saw eye to eye on because it had been such a huge issue growing up.

I hear you, but I do think that if it always was a choice, or if it never meant a choice or in some way was used with consistency then it would not have been as difficult for you.

Like I said, everyone is different. In our house we say a lot of please and a lot of thank you. But our house is also very consistent. I don't use a term or phrase that means one thing one day and another thing another day.

mamazee, I use a lot of "sweet boy" at the end of instructions in my house.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

As I said earlier I have seen plenty of home where please is freely used where there isn't any damage so I'm not like deadly set against it







however its just an area that we choose to make a dirrect diffrence for.

Deanna


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *e(Lisa)beth* 
I've been saying "you may" to myself while reading this thread and it sounds funny to me, even a little imperious. I imagine that if I said that to someone, they would sarcastically reply, "well, thanks, your highness!"









Yes!







: me too. It just feels to me like you're expecting the person to be happy or honored about whatever you're "letting" them (but really telling them to) do.

We are not amused.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *e(Lisa)beth* 
FWIW, I've always thought of "I'll let you go now" on the telephone not as passive/agressive but simply as "I've taken up too much of your time, I know you need to get on with your day." Kind of self-deprecating, I guess.

Fascinating!! I'm the one with the DH who says it sometimes still to me....I never, ever thought of it that way. I still want him to say what he means though....







. But thanks for that perspective


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## mamabadger (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *verde* 
Personally I don't think there can be too much courtesy in the world.










I have never seen "please" as limited to requests. I use please any time I make a request, give an order, or even issue an angry demand ("Would you please stop your dog from doing that on our lawn?!") It has nothing to do with level of authority or the right to refuse. It is just expressing the request/demand/order politely rather than rudely.
A person in authority needs to be _more_ careful about courtesy toward his subordinates, not less. A boss who issues commands just because he can, no please, no thank you, no "if you don't mind," is an obnoxious, overbearing boor. If he is genuinely in charge, he can afford to say, "Please get me that file," showing his employee a little respect, instead of making a point of the fact that she is required to comply.
I also say "thank you" to a small child who does something for me, even if the child had no choice in the matter.
Courtesy is not a sign of weakness!!


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## Cujobunny (Aug 16, 2006)

I agree that saying "please" is a matter of courtesy.

I don't know if I always used it with my ds but I do know that once he really started talking and I heard what I, and DH, were saying to him mirrored back to me, I starting using A LOT more manners! Saying to the child "Pick up your toys" is like your child saying to you "Get me a drink". You won't like it.


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## Jenneelk (Dec 21, 2008)

I use please often and teach my children to do the same. I don't expect it at every request they make but sometimes the way something is asked, I correct them in their tone by reminding them to say please. Now I don't really need the 'please' but I do need them to remember courtesty and by instructing that use of the word reminds them to be nice when asking for something. kwim?


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I absolutely use please whenever I can.

There are ways to say please and still be clear it's a requirement not request.

Please pick up your toys.

Please pick your toys up NOW.












I think the OP is being rude, just my oh so humble opinion


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Of course I say please.

Otherwise it's just an example of treating children like non-people.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
Of course I say please.

Otherwise it's just an example of treating children like non-people.

No its not or at least it doesn't need to be. I don't say please to my DH or other adults if I'm not giving a request. Its rare for me to do this just like its rare for me to do it with my child but I don't say please if I'm open to a no.
Deanna


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by alegna
I absolutely use please whenever I can.

There are ways to say please and still be clear it's a requirement not request.

Please pick up your toys.

Please pick your toys up NOW.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2cutiekitties* 









I think the OP is being rude, just my oh so humble opinion

See and to me both those seem to imply a choice. As in if the child says no then it means that the parent will go oh well I asked.. Now for some this might be true but then it really wasn't a requirment. I find it very patronizing to hear please tagged on to a statement thats clearly not meant to be a choice.








Like the last time we were at my MILs.
MIL: C pick up your cards please so we can eat dinner..
C : No thank you grandma I'll get them latter
MIL







in sugary sweet sing song voice) you need to listen to grandma its time to clean up.. Now Please listen to grandma








(here mommy jumped in pointed out 1) you asked if she would she said no don't request and no accept the answer.. 2) that the cards were no where near the dinner table and she was activly playing with them and I'd make sure she had them cleaned up before bed..

Deanna


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## skreader (Nov 19, 2008)

I've used "please" and "thank you" w/ my kids a lot and never had much problem w/ them thinking that "please" meant something was optional.

Example:
"Please pass the rice"
"Could you please get me a pen?"

Other times I would not phrase things as a request, but as a statement of what's happening. "It's time to pick up your toys" or "Go wash your hands, it's time for dinner."

I've also taught them to use "please" when making requests "Can we please watch a video?"

I've also taught them that when people offer them something (e.g. food or drink) the 2 answers are "Yes, please" or "No, thank you."


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skreader* 
I've used "please" and "thank you" w/ my kids a lot and never had much problem w/ them thinking that "please" meant something was optional.

Example:
"Please pass the rice"
"Could you please get me a pen?"

Other times I would not phrase things as a request, but as a statement of what's happening. "It's time to pick up your toys" or "Go wash your hands, it's time for dinner."

I've also taught them to use "please" when making requests "Can we please watch a video?"

I've also taught them that when people offer them something (e.g. food or drink) the 2 answers are "Yes, please" or "No, thank you."

We do the same...

Deanna


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
See and to me both those seem to imply a choice. As in if the child says no then it means that the parent will go oh well I asked.. Now for some this might be true but then it really wasn't a requirment. I find it very patronizing to hear please tagged on to a statement thats clearly not meant to be a choice.








Like the last time we were at my MILs.
MIL: C pick up your cards please so we can eat dinner..
C : No thank you grandma I'll get them latter
MIL







in sugary sweet sing song voice) you need to listen to grandma its time to clean up.. Now Please listen to grandma








(here mommy jumped in pointed out 1) you asked if she would she said no don't request and no accept the answer.. 2) that the cards were no where near the dinner table and she was activly playing with them and I'd make sure she had them cleaned up before bed..

Deanna

I don't hear it that way at all.

I might call dh and say, "please bring home a gallon of milk"

if he said no, he'd better have a darn good reason
















-Angela


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## pacificbliss (Jun 17, 2006)

I use please when asking anyone to do anything. My toddler is no exception.


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## stickywicket67 (Jan 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BaBaBa* 
Oh, this is interesting....

Don't get me wrong, I model it interacting with other adults I just wonder if it confuses a toddler.

She's polite enough for her age. She does use please when she asks for something and I think that's pretty good for just turning 2.

I do intend to use more when she's older *but I can't help feeling somewhat condescending asking her to 'please get off the table' or 'please come here'*. By the nature of her age she's engaged in activities that I can't compare with making the same request of other adults.

I'm beginning to feel like a brute...









right! to the bolded part- this is where i find it sort of annoying. to me it does sound patronizing in those situations.

i don't really have this issue with ds yet- too young and i mostly redirect with commentary. so i'd say "uh-oh off the table, bubs!. let's sit you in a chair so you can be up high"... changing it from negative into a positive redirect. no "please" needed.

but say i want dh to pick his wet towel up off the floor- i could say "would you hang up the wet towel" which sounds just direct and factual to me. or i could say "please hang up the wet towel" which sounds huffy and condescending and whiny to me.

to me please makes it a personal request rather than a reminder that wet towels won't dry if they're heaped in a pile on the floor. saying please implies that i get _pleasure_ from the action.

i do say "thank you" a lot though.









i hated it when my old boss would say "please" after a non optional request. as if we had a choice. i found it patronizing.
"would one of you _please_ grab a bunch of bags from the stockroom and fill in the register?" uggghhh.
why not simply- "would one of you grab a bunch of bags from the stockroom and fill in the registers?" moving on, nothing personal, and thanks for taking care of it whoever did it.

i think people often say "please" to soften a request and instead it comes out as weirdly passive aggressive.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I don't hear it that way at all.

I might call dh and say, "please bring home a gallon of milk"

if he said no, he'd better have a darn good reason
















-Angela

First off know this is jsut an area that is a huge sore spot for me personally its not a reflection on how I view every other persons ways of handling it.. but to me I would likely say please bring home a gallon of milk because well it would be a simple request, I have my own car and access to food money we also havea groccery store literly across the street from us, so if DH came home with out it I might be disapointed but not upset. Same with my DD we use please VERY often. Please pass the potatos, please take these upstairs please turn the TV down ect because they are requests if she refuses (which honestly is rare) I find a diffrent way. WHat I don't say please with are times where there is no other "acceptable" choice.

Deanna


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## dynamicdoula (Jun 11, 2004)

My experience (11yo, 7yo and 15mo) is that saying, "Please pick up your toys," does not come across as an option but a respectful request. Consequently my kids all return that same language.


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## BaBaBa (Jun 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stickywicket67* 
right! to the bolded part- this is where i find it sort of annoying. to me it does sound patronizing in those situations.

i don't really have this issue with ds yet- too young and i mostly redirect with commentary. so i'd say "uh-oh off the table, bubs!. let's sit you in a chair so you can be up high"... changing it from negative into a positive redirect. no "please" needed.

but say i want dh to pick his wet towel up off the floor- i could say "would you hang up the wet towel" which sounds just direct and factual to me. or i could say "please hang up the wet towel" which sounds huffy and condescending and whiny to me.

to me please makes it a personal request rather than a reminder that wet towels won't dry if they're heaped in a pile on the floor. saying please implies that i get _pleasure_ from the action.

i do say "thank you" a lot though.









i hated it when my old boss would say "please" after a non optional request. as if we had a choice. i found it patronizing.
"would one of you _please_ grab a bunch of bags from the stockroom and fill in the register?" uggghhh.
why not simply- "would one of you grab a bunch of bags from the stockroom and fill in the registers?" moving on, nothing personal, and thanks for taking care of it whoever did it.

i think people often say "please" to soften a request and instead it comes out as weirdly passive aggressive.










Thank you.
You articulated exactly what I failed to.


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## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

I use please and thank you as often as I remember. It's what I want to hear back so it just makes sense to me. We also encourage DD to say please and thank you.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dynamicdoula* 
My experience (11yo, 7yo and 15mo) is that saying, "Please pick up your toys," does not come across as an option but a respectful request. Consequently my kids all return that same language.

same here.


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## bstandlee (May 14, 2007)

It's the question words that make it an option versus a request. "Will you" or "Would you" or "Can you" all lead to a question, whether or not there's a please at the end. And a question has an answer which could be yes or could be no. It's not the "please" that makes it optional imo but whether or not it's phrased as a question.

For example, growing up my dad would often say "Betsy, how would you like to unload the dishwasher?" I would often say, "no." Then he would say, "Well, do it anyway!" And in psychology and counseling (my degree) we're taught not to say "Can you do x?" or "Could you do x?" because you're not asking if they are physically able to do a task (yes, I am able to unload the dishwasher but I'm not going to).

To me, a request that's phrased as a question (will you do x) is much more passive and disrespectful to a child or any other person than adding a please to a legitimate request because you're asking a question that only has one right answer.

It's very interesting following this thread! So many different experiences and interpretations.


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## stickywicket67 (Jan 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
First off know this is jsut an area that is a huge sore spot for me personally its not a reflection on how I view every other persons ways of handling it.. but to me I would likely say please bring home a gallon of milk because well it would be a simple request, I have my own car and access to food money we also havea groccery store literly across the street from us, so if DH came home with out it I might be disapointed but not upset. Same with my DD we use please VERY often. Please pass the potatos, please take these upstairs please turn the TV down ect because they are requests if she refuses (which honestly is rare) I find a diffrent way. WHat I don't say please with are times where there is no other "acceptable" choice.

Deanna

you could just as easily walk across the street and get the milk yourself so asking dh to please pick up a gallon of milk is a nicer way of asking him to do you the favor of running the errand. i would say please too in this instance.

this is where i see the difference in saying please or not. if it is a personal request then i will definitely say please. please turn down the tv is for my benefit because i don't like how loud it is...please pass the potatoes so that i may enjoy a taste of them... please is appropriate in my mind for these situations.

if it's 'a someone needs to do it for the good of the team/situation/safety reason/common sense' then i wouldn't say please.

i would never ever ever say to someone "please dont let your dog poop on my lawn". sounds fake sweet to me. it'd be more like "i'd appreciate it if you would curb your dog" or "hey! dude! don't let your dog crap on my lawn!"

i just don't see how it's polite or necessary to say please in a situation like that.


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I agree that the word "please" literally is a request - it comes from "if it is your pleasure" or "if it pleases you", which means if it isn't your pleasure, or doesn't please you, then you don't have to do it. But it has at least somewhat morphed over time simply into a polite word to add to sound nicer.

I agree, and I'm comfortable with that because what we consider "commands" or "no-choice instructions" really are requests. The sternest _come here now_ is still a request; it means the same as "would you come here" and "come here if you decide to do it" because no change in language or affect can levitate a person, even a small one, across the room. That's why in languages like Spanish they use the subjunctive tense instead of the indicative one. (Granted that's sort of over-analytical but this is as good a thread for that as any.)

Requests/orders/verbalization all by themselves are always optional, and really we patronize kids by pretending they don't know that, IMO.

I agree much of this is personal preference. For me, I'm a stickler for accuracy in language, which is why this:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stickywicket67* 
but say i want dh to pick his wet towel up off the floor- i could say "would you hang up the wet towel" which sounds just direct and factual to me. or i could say "please hang up the wet towel" which sounds huffy and condescending and whiny to me.

to me please makes it a personal request rather than a reminder that wet towels won't dry if they're heaped in a pile on the floor...

I don't use "would you pick that up" to be a reminder that wet towels won't dry; I'd rather say "wet towels won't dry if they're heaped in a pile on the floor." Or if the person is old enough to know that: "your towel's on the floor." If he knew both, like a husband, he's pretty much already made his choice on the matter and I'd either do it myself or say any number of things depending on my mood potentially including 'please', but it wouldn't really indicate whether there was room to negotiate on the towel.

That's the same reason I'd say "we need to clean up this juice before the rug gets stained." If I need to indicate that something has to be done no matter what, I'd rather just say so. That's just my speech pattern, I guess.


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## mamabadger (Apr 21, 2006)

I can see that please might be omitted when you are barking an order, like "Get your car off my bicycle!" but I cannot see that it is ever inappropriate or 'too sweet," just as it is never wrong to say thank you, even when you receive a gift you do not want or like.
Maybe it is a cultural/regional difference. I live near the Canada/U.S. border. We sometimes get American tourists here, who will tell other drivers to "get out of the way" or call out to someone on the street, "Hey! What time is it?" The people around him just cringe. _He_ thinks he is simply being friendly and straightforward, while Canadians feel he is being rude. Please and thank you might be used differently in different areas. Could that be it?


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## Cujobunny (Aug 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamabadger* 
Maybe it is a cultural/regional difference. I live near the Canada/U.S. border. We sometimes get American tourists here, who will tell other drivers to "get out of the way" or call out to someone on the street, "Hey! What time is it?" The people around him just cringe. _He_ thinks he is simply being friendly and straightforward, while Canadians feel he is being rude. Please and thank you might be used differently in different areas. Could that be it?


Interesting.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BaBaBa* 

When I want DD to do something I very plainly tell her to do it. For example, 'Pick up your toys'. I don't use please in this circumstance because I don't want to confuse her into thinking she has an option.

....

Thoughts?


Turn that back around to how you would like to be treated. If your DD asks you for a drink of water, you don't really have an option as far as getting it for her. But how would you like to be asked?

"Get me water." or "Please get me water."

I know I hit a point where I got really tired of being ordered around by my tiny tyrant, and now I will only do things when I'm asked nicely. And in return, I ask her to do things in a polite way.

I don't think adding one familiar word to a request is confusing, even when they are tiny.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *madskye* 
Turn that back around to how you would like to be treated. If your DD asks you for a drink of water, you don't really have an option as far as getting it for her. But how would you like to be asked?

"Get me water." or "Please get me water."

I know I hit a point where I got really tired of being ordered around by my tiny tyrant, and now I will only do things when I'm asked nicely. And in return, I ask her to do things in a polite way.

I don't think adding one familiar word to a request is confusing, even when they are tiny.

Yes I would have the choice.. Of course I would get her the water but yes thats a request and will be taught as such and I'd give the same courtousy back. My non pleases are where there is no requests and no acceptable alternitive. We are going to cross honey the street hold my hand.. VS we are going to cross the street hold my hand please. The second sounds nice and if I hear another parent say it I don't think anything horrid but for me and my famly please means " If it is pleasing to you". In such a case I don't say please. I still don't bark orders but I don't say please. Honestly the GET ME part would bug me much more than weather or not a please was tagged on the end.







(assuming ther vocabulary was advanced enough). Get me a drink or get me a drink please would be gently corrected to May I have a drink or could you give me a drink or may I please have a drink or could you give me a drink please...

Deanna


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## Kinguk (Jun 26, 2008)

I always use please. If it's an option I'd just word it as such for example, "would you like to...?". I wouldn't read into it too much if I were you. Just use your manners the same way you would like your child to learn them. Besides, it's not the way you ask but whether or not you follow through with what you want them to do.
I treat kids the same way I treat everyone else. I would never command an adult to "pick up your toys" so I would never command a child to either... Not that an adult would leave their toys lying around. Um, oops, you know what I mean


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I have to say even though I fall into the please camp, this thread has been really illuminating for me. Thanks!


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## BaBaBa (Jun 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *madskye* 
Turn that back around to how you would like to be treated. If your DD asks you for a drink of water, you don't really have an option as far as getting it for her. But how would you like to be asked?

"Get me water." or "Please get me water."

I know I hit a point where I got really tired of being ordered around by my tiny tyrant, and now I will only do things when I'm asked nicely. And in return, I ask her to do things in a polite way.

I don't think adding one familiar word to a request is confusing, even when they are tiny.

I would use 'please' when asking for a glass of water. It's not expected of her to bring me water any time I'm thirsty. It's a courtesy.

I hope I didn't imply that I never use 'please'. I just want to use it appropriately.

I don't say 'please, flush the toilet' because the expectation is that she will flush the toilet. I don't expect others to use 'please' with me to make me perform my responsibilities.


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## stickywicket67 (Jan 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BaBaBa* 
I would use 'please' when asking for a glass of water. It's not expected of her to bring me water any time I'm thirsty. It's a courtesy.

I hope I didn't imply that I never use 'please'. I just want to use it appropriately.

I don't say 'please, flush the toilet' because the expectation is that she will flush the toilet. I don't expect others to use 'please' with me to make me perform my responsibilities.

totally!

there's a bit about this topic in "How to Talk so Kids will Listen...


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

I'm still just not getting how it could be inappropriate to use a common courtesy word like please. But I don't think it's something I want to understand either.


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## Collinsky (Jul 7, 2004)

We say "please" and "thank you" to each other and to our children for anything that is asking something of another human being. In reality, everything _is_ a request, because no one ever really controls another human being, not even the little ones. It's worked well for us so far, my kids are very polite and considerate to us and to each other. And while being confused about when they have to listen and when they don't is a non-issue in our home, they are, in general, quite cooperative as well.

I model what I want - and even though as the mama I "have to" wipe their bottoms, it's still awfully nice to hear please and thank you for it.


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## brennatsi (Jan 22, 2008)

Please and thank you are grease for a functioning society. Even if it is a non-negotiable demand, we simply do not speak to each other like it is. It isn't friendly. I expect a thank you when I hand my 2yo her sandwich at lunch, even though it is my duty to feed her. My 13 yo hears "please empty the dishwasher" even though it is not optional. It is simply polite and I expect my children to be polite back.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

I don't say please don't go into the street (and yes shes old eough to follow those dirrections) or please don't bit your cousin dear that hurts. ect I will also at times combine a please with a more "dirrect" set of insructions. Like honey I need you to have these clothes picked up before bed time please do it after dinner okay. The please is a request and for me implies the suggestion of after dinner the non negoiable is it wl be done before bed if I have to stop come and help her it will be done.

Quote:

I'm still just not getting how it could be inappropriate to use a common courtesy word like please. But I don't think it's something I want to understand either.
I don't think any of us who don't use please ALL the time are suggesting never or even rarely using polite words there are MANY polite ways of asking with out please. I'm sorry its hard to understand but for me and my DH adding please simpily mean if you would like and not everything is meant to be a choice. For me its frustrating to hear please when the intention is that there is no choice.. (and yes I get that in reality we always have the choice). Its NOT courtious to do this in my mind. SO I don't with my child. Manners and politness are still used tough.

Deanna


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

My 13 yo hears "please empty the dishwasher" even though it is not optional.
Its may also be how our brain process things. I grew up hearing such things and it frustrated me to no end, I always thought (in silence and NEVER dared say it outloud) off geez thats sooo much for the please cause yea we all know I really have a choice. I felt a TON more respect if I heard. Its your turn to empty the dishwasher make sure its done thanks. Being ripped and told come here NOW and do this! was of course also rude but adding please in my mind never made it "polite" unless the choice was truly there. I tend to (As do dd and dh) think more literly though.









Deanna


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## BaBaBa (Jun 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
I'm still just not getting how it could be inappropriate to use a common courtesy word like please. But I don't think it's something I want to understand either.

I think because if it's used in every single circumstance where someone is asked or required to perform a task (or stop performing one) it loses it's significance as a courtesy word.

For example, if DD hits me I choose to say 'stop hitting me' instead of 'please stop hitting me'. Her action does not require a courteous request.


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## Dov'sMom (Jan 24, 2007)

We try to use "please" in almost all situations except ones where, as the PP said, a courteous request is not warranted -- such as when DS is hitting or hurting or destroying things.

He definitely does NOT process "please" as granting him an option -- witness the following conversation:

DS: DH, peez stan' up.
DH: Not right now, sweetherat.
DS: Dh, peez stan' up.
DH: Not right now, sweetheart.
DS: DH! I say peez! Stan! up! right! NOW!


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

I find the please points very interesting. All I know is my DH does not use it and I just think he sounds so rude and unfriendly, it irks me. DS just stares at him, so both ways are failing in this house.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
I'm still just not getting how it could be inappropriate to use a common courtesy word like please. But I don't think it's something I want to understand either.









:

But I also think it may be a regional difference. I know that it's pretty standard around here, and I also know that people comment when moving to the area now NICE everyone is...









-Angela


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 







:

But I also think it may be a regional difference. I know that it's pretty standard around here, and I also know that people comment when moving to the area now NICE everyone is...









-Angela









I was born and raised in Texas







I'm 100% for common courousity please thankyou may I ect are an everyday part of life there just not ALL used with every request. Its just as odd to some of us why someone would use certain words all the time when to us they sound totally outta place as it likely does for you to not hear them.









Deanna


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

Very interesting thread. Please is a courtesy word and I'd certainly use it with children when directing them to do something. I don't think it implies there this is an option in the request, command, direction, etc.

please   [pleez] Show IPA Pronunciation
adverb, verb, pleased, pleas⋅ing.
-adverb
1.(used as a polite addition to requests, commands, etc.) if you would be so obliging; kindly: Please come here. Will you please turn the radio off?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 







I was born and raised in Texas







I'm 100% for common courousity please thankyou may I ect are an everyday part of life there just not ALL used with every request. Its just as odd to some of us why someone would use certain words all the time when to us they sound totally outta place as it likely does for you to not hear them.









Deanna

Totally out of curiosity... are you from down around the Houston area? Because Dallas and the rest of the state don't seem to get the same "friendly" label IME as the Houston area...

-Angela


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

I don't like forcing kids to use the word please. I feel as though we're using our power over them to make them beg from us. However, I often say please when asking them to help me clean up their toys or other messes in the house. They cooperate with me more when I use the word please. My 2 year old has mastered using the word 'please' which makes my mom so proud of her. (my parents made us say please and thank you to the point the words felt empty and meaningless). I've learned not to make anyone use those words unless they are sincere because we all prefer sincerity, I think. I don't always say please, but I tend to use it when I sense my daughters resisting my requests for help. If they still don't want to help, I just do it myself. I may be frustrated, but I don't want to 'make' a 2 and 3 year old do my bidding.

Commenting on the post someone made about picking up the milk: If it were me, I'd respond more willingly if the person asked me, would you mind picking up milk? If they said please, I'd automatically feel resistant. If they just said pick up some milk, I'd say pick up the milk yourself!


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Totally out of curiosity... are you from down around the Houston area? Because Dallas and the rest of the state don't seem to get the same "friendly" label IME as the Houston area...

-Angela

No I grew up in the Fort Worth area and also lived a number of years in West Texas. I still know exactly what your refering to though and I still stand by what I say. Its got nothing to do with being or not being friendly.
Deanna


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## Juniperberry (Apr 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaLaLaLa* 
I see "please" as a polite additive to a direction (or command, if you prefer). It is not an invitation to argue, and it doesn't turn a direction into a question. I don't see "please help me clean up your toys" as different from "help me clean up your toys" except that one is polite and one is not. Neither one is a request, and I'd expect the same response to either. "Please" is very important to me, so I model it at every opportunity. My kids are big on "please" as well as "thank you" and understand that people are much more cheerful about doing what you want them to do when you extend some common courtesy. Courtesy goes both ways, I think.

I completely agree with you.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I'm with you, OP. I don't use "please" or "okay?" when I ask my kids to do something, because that implies that there's another option. I save them for when there's a choice involved.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I am from the south and I use "please" or "would you mind" all the time.

If I am feeling like something is urgent I will state the reason but I almost never give statements that sound like an order, unless the situation is out of control or dangerous.

I usually just state facts or phrase it in terms of what I need, or in terms of what the situation involves that justifies what I am asking.

So examples would be:

"Dh, you left the wet towel on the floor"

but not

"Dh, hang up your towel"

and not even

"Dh please hang up your towel"

I trust that he knows what to do with a towel, he just forgot.

I would say:

"Ds there will be company later and the living room is very messy. I will be cleaning the kitchen and need help in the living room".

but not

"Ds clean the living room"

and not even

"Ds please clean the living room" **unless** we already had an understanding that he would do it, he forgot, and time is of the essence.

I would say

"Ds would you please give me some water, I am too tired to get up".

but not

"Ds give me some water"

and probably not even

"Ds please give me some water", because I would almost always add the reason why I wanted him to get it for me, unless it was obvious. When I had a miscarriage dh and ds ran to get things for me all week long. Of course I wasn't adding "Please get me water--I had a miscarriage". It was just understood during that time why I was asking. Or say I am baking, and am up to my elbows in dough--I may ask for something without stating 'because I am busy baking'--it is obvious!

Whenever possible I always put a request in context, and I always give a reason, and I have found this little extra effort means there is less argument or disagreement, rather than more. I think it eliminates the potential for power struggles, because if we do disagree, it is over the specifics of the situation, not over 'obedience' or 'who's the boss'. That is beside the point. If I make a request it is because the situation warrants it, not because I am the boss.

And again, fwiw, I have never felt that ds 'went after' my legitimacy to speak with authority about what a situation requires--because the focus is on the situation, and not my God-given right to be the boss, and there is very little power struggle surrounding requests as a result.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Since I want Lina to eventually say "please pass the peas, Grandma" not "you may pass me the peas now, Grandma" I guess I'll be sticking with using "please" when I tell her to do things.

"you may..." seems a bit presumptuous to me. Like "the queen granted her maid permission to brush her hair. 'Sylvia, We are ready for Our tea, you may bring in the tray.'"


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## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
I don't say please to my DH or other adults if I'm not giving a request. Its rare for me to do this just like its rare for me to do it with my child but I don't say please if I'm open to a no.
Deanna

We use please for all requests, or at least we try to. That means whenever we're asking someone to do something. But a request does allow a yes or a no. A demand does not. I try not to ever make demands, since they are not conducive to a cooperative, peaceful relationship.


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## BaBaBa (Jun 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Since I want Lina to eventually say "please pass the peas, Grandma" not "you may pass me the peas now, Grandma" I guess I'll be sticking with using "please" when I tell her to do things.
'"

I wasn't left with the impression that the people who prefer 'you may' would actually use it in the circumstance you describe above but they could respond to that better than myself.

I think I've figured it out. It comes down to intent.

I use 'please' when the request is a courtesy or a favour to myself. For example, please pass the salt, please lower your voice, please bring me a drink.

I don't use 'please' when I'm asking DD to do something that serves herself or others. For example, keep your feet off the table, don't touch the stove, pick up your toys, use the potty, brush your teeth. But this is where it gets tricky. It may seem that I am making these requests for my own benefit but when you examine it further you see that these types of requests serve to benefit DD and to educate her on become a valued member of society. In the same way that a sport, for example, is taught, I am really teaching DD how to perform in life. Teaching someone to ride a horse I would say 'keep your heels down' not 'please keep your heels down' because that is what needs to be second nature to them. So, tempered with the use of caring term of endearment I don't think I'm being rude at all as one PP stated.

I also don't think using 'please' at every possible opportunity makes you a more polite individual . Tone of voice, manner, gesture, intent can go a long way. I have certainly experienced some less than polite requests or commands with a 'please' attached.


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## BaBaBa (Jun 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Think of Winter* 
We use please for all requests, or at least we try to. That means whenever we're asking someone to do something. But a request does allow a yes or a no. A demand does not. I try not to ever make demands, since they are not conducive to a cooperative, peaceful relationship.

Good point but do you really try to not make and demands with a child? I appreciate your intent and perhaps I'm nitpicking but I would like to understand this more. I demand (and it is a horrible word) for example, that DD holds my hand on road. I make this demand to protect her. How would I get around this?


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

Good point but do you really try to not make and demands with a child? I appreciate your intent and perhaps I'm nitpicking but I would like to understand this more. I demand (and it is a horrible word) for example, that DD holds my hand on road. I make this demand to protect her. How would I get around this?
Demand? It is a rule, but you can enforce it politely, or not, depending on which you prefer.

"Ds please give me your hand when we reach the curb". It is a reminder of the rule, but not a demand as far as I would define "demand".

I'm not clear as to why you shouldn't say please if there isn't a real choice in the matter. I prefer that people speak politely to me regardless of whether what they are saying is a choice.

"Please keep your arms and and legs inside the ride until it comes to a complete stop"

I am sure I have heard "please" used in those instructions at theme parks, and they are not giving me a choice, and the situation is a safety issue. But they still say please.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Since I want Lina to eventually say "please pass the peas, Grandma" not "you may pass me the peas now, Grandma" I guess I'll be sticking with using "please" when I tell her to do things.

"you may..." seems a bit presumptuous to me. Like "the queen granted her maid permission to brush her hair. 'Sylvia, We are ready for Our tea, you may bring in the tray.'"


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
"Please keep your arms and and legs inside the ride until it comes to a complete stop"



i think "please" can be used to denote importance. like on airplanes, amusement park rides & so forth. also, in your example of needing to point out that time is of the essence ..."Ds _please_ clean the living room", in reference to company coming and having to give a second reminder to your son. anyway. just my thoughts







it's like a nice way of saying this isn't an option, lol.


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BaBaBa* 
I just have seen so many parents using 'please' after ever thing they ask their child to do and it seems so over used, the kids stop responding.

I teach DD to use 'please' with people outside her family, but I think it's unnecessary in most situations at home. In some situations, I equate 'please' with begging. If she needs a drink of water, why should she have to beg? Or if I'm telling her it's time for bed, saying please seems to add the option of her rejecting my demand ("It's time for bed, go lay down"). However, when we go to the grocery store and she wants a sticker or balloon from an employee, I instruct her to say please when asking for it.

I agree that it's very regional and also cultural. DH (from N. Africa) still gets a kick out of people saying please for every little thing. Especially at restaurants and service industries, where we are the customer.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
Demand? It is a rule, but you can enforce it politely, or not, depending on which you prefer.

"Ds please give me your hand when we reach the curb". It is a reminder of the rule, but not a demand as far as I would define "demand".

I'm not clear as to why you shouldn't say please if there isn't a real choice in the matter. I prefer that people speak politely to me regardless of whether what they are saying is a choice.

"Please keep your arms and and legs inside the ride until it comes to a complete stop"

I am sure I have heard "please" used in those instructions at theme parks, and they are not giving me a choice, and the situation is a safety issue. But they still say please.

I will not say please give me your hand when we get to the curb why? because it is not a choice. I wont bark the order but I will give a gentle but dirrective when we get to the curb remember to hold mommys hand.

Quote:

I'm not clear as to why you shouldn't say please if there isn't a real choice in the matter. I prefer that people speak politely to me regardless of whether what they are saying is a choice.
See here is the diffrence I don't at all consider it polite to say please with every single dirrection. Quite the opposite actually. I don't feel tagging please makes it polite.

Deanna


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

i definitely think it's a lot to do with culture. i live in a tiny town in SC. we say please, thank-you, yes ma'am, no sir, i'm sorry, etc. ...and it's all over used to the umpteenth power, lol. it's really rediculous. ...oh, not to mention... it's rude if you don't have "small talk" with the grocery clerk or gas station attendant, ha ha.


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## Think of Winter (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BaBaBa* 
Good point but do you really try to not make and demands with a child? I appreciate your intent and perhaps I'm nitpicking but I would like to understand this more. I demand (and it is a horrible word) for example, that DD holds my hand on road. I make this demand to protect her. How would I get around this?

Funny you mention that example, because my dd is 2 1/2 and rebelling about this very thing. Usually I say "you can hold my hand or I will carry you" if she protests. There are things I insist on, like staying in their car seats. I say "You have to stay in your seat to be safe." or "I have to buckle these straps snugly to keep you safe."

A lot of my posts here on gd are about what I wish to do or say, not what I actually do.







: There have been lots of times when I've made loud, angry demands "Stop jumping on your brother. He doesn't like it!!!" after the 4th time. But I don't think that's what the original point of your thread was. I try to always model the behavior I want to see, and that includes speaking to my dc with courtesy. To me, that is using the word 'please.' I'm sure there are plenty of mamas who speak with as much or more kindness as I do, and don't say please every time.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BaBaBa* 
Good point but do you really try to not make and demands with a child? I appreciate your intent and perhaps I'm nitpicking but I would like to understand this more. I demand (and it is a horrible word) for example, that DD holds my hand on road. I make this demand to protect her. How would I get around this?

Not the pp but I'll answer. I'll say, "Hold my hand while we cross the street." That's a demand (because it's a safety issue.)

But when safety is not involved, I try not to be demanding. I'll say, "Please get your jammies on."

Ds might not want to. So then I'll try to make it fun and say, "Let's see if you can get your jammies on before I get the dishwasher unloaded" (or whatever.) Then he'll be excited to have a "contest" and he'll run off to get his jammies on.

Whenever possible, I don't make demands. I try to work with his wants, needs, desires, and motivations as an individual.


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

I say "please" because it's polite and I want them to say it and so I am modeling it for them.

It doesn't mean I am making a request for something that is optional though, and our kids don't interpret it that way.

I think it is a mistake to ever sound as if you are begging a child to do something. If it is not optional, it's not optional and I will politely request them to go along with what needs to be done, but it's going to be done either way, and they get that. If it is optional, I am very up front about letting them know it is truly optional and their choice. And I try to make as many things as I can up to them in some way. But when it's not up to them, it's just not ! I am still polite about it. But I will not use "please" in a begging sort of way.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BaBaBa* 
I just have seen so many parents using 'please' after ever thing they ask their child to do and it seems so over used, the kids stop responding.Thoughts?


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## mamabadger (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
I don't at all consider it polite to say please with every single dirrection. Quite the opposite actually. I don't feel tagging please makes it polite.

Here is where I think there may be cultural or regional differences. The way I was taught, saying please is not tagged on to be polite; _leaving out_ "please" makes it _im_polite. "Please" is not an extra; it is left out only when a command is terribly urgent ("Look out for that car!") or in order to be deliberately curt to make a point ("Enough already!") in the military ("Forward, march!") or maybe when making a group public demand, like "End child slavery NOW!" At almost any other time, you say please or some variation of it unless you are trying to purposely demean the other person. That is the approach I usually encounter.


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## Unconventional1 (Apr 3, 2006)

We use please and thank you and DS has been using them since he was 18 months! I love that he is following our lead this way. He will just ask for something-
"Bubba water, momma?", but when I bring it to him he says "Thanks momma!"- since he was 16 months old. It feels good to be spoken to this way- and I think he feels the same. When other adults speak to him in an impolite way, he does what they ask with less happiness and enthusiasm, or looks at them like they are rude!


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamabadger* 
Here is where I think there may be cultural or regional differences. The way I was taught, saying please is not tagged on to be polite; _leaving out_ "please" makes it _im_polite. "Please" is not an extra; it is left out only when a command is terribly urgent ("Look out for that car!") or in order to be deliberately curt to make a point ("Enough already!") in the military ("Forward, march!") or maybe when making a group public demand, like "End child slavery NOW!" At almost any other time, you say please or some variation of it unless you are trying to purposely demean the other person. That is the approach I usually encounter.

This is my experience, too.


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## jrabbit (May 10, 2008)

In our house, using the word please has resulted in two polite, well-behaved children (for the most part) who automatically use the word please, and understand *why* we say please. We always use the word please, starting when they were younger than 2 y.o., and I do not think it was condescending or confusing to them. What I think would happen if you do not start young, is that you'd be changing the rules, and that's harder to do with an older child.

We use it in all situations, including "Please don't pull the cat's tail" - "Please don't chase the bunny" - "Please don't jump on the bed" - "Please hold mommy's hand" - "Please don't run" - but we probably wouldn't use it if the child was running away into traffic or something scary. And like someone else said, after saying the same thing politely 3-4 times, we probably stop saying please!

--janis


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## mamarhu (Sep 12, 2004)

Whew! I didn't know if I would make it through this thread before bedtime for the dumplings. But I really wanted to comment...

My father was raawther upper class British, so there is my cultural bias. But my mother was West Virginia hillbilly. And I was raised in San Francisco in the 60s and 70s. And I have lived in Europe, Central America, Asia, the Caribbean, and many parts of the US. So I am an amalgam, even if I think my speech patterns come from Dad.

I almost always say please, thank you, and 1,000 other polite social niceties. People comment on how polite my kids are, and I have never asked or demanded that of them; I just model how I prefer to be spoken to. Even my foster-dumpling, who has only lived here a little over a year, and came from a situation of extreme neglect, has picked up please and thank you (and more), and uses them dependably without ever being asked. I hope I am giving her the gift of politeness, and that it will somehow make her future life easier, to know how to be polite and nice in any social situation.

I think social graces carry a lot of weight (there is the class-conscious father shining through!) I second all the sugar versus vinegar comments, and the grease the wheels ideas. But it is really much more than that. I feel that "nice" is under-rated. No, I don't mean insincere politically correct substituted words. I mean that our culture, mainstream US, seems to put a higher value on winning at any price, than cooperation. As we communicate on he internet, we are learning how much meaning can be lost without facial expressions, tone of voice, etc, to indicate meaning. I think serious attention to how we "sound" typewritten will be an important asset as our world becomes less concrete.

For me, IRL, many things other than the word "please" tell the mood or attitude of a sentence. I can intentionally make it a question, "Would you please get me a glass of water?", I can sarcastically add it, "get me the water, pul-ease." But with no unusual inflection, "Please get me a glass of water" means that I pretty much expect the water, or at least a reason why you can't.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Was discussing with DH and he pointed out that if you're pulled over and the officer says- license and registration, please- that doesn't make it a decline-able request. And yeah, around here, they probably usually say please









-Angela


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Was discussing with DH and he pointed out that if you're pulled over and the officer says- license and registration, please- that doesn't make it a decline-able request. And yeah, around here, they probably usually say please









-Angela









See thats my whole point. I really don't have any issue with others using please for everything because yes I am fully capable of understanding the diffrence between a please as in a choice and a please that isn't so is my DD and she has for a long time... but please the WORD it sef still means "if you please" and my fast gut reaction when I hear it in situations such as say a police saying Licence and registration please is .. umm yea and if I say no??







because of this and maybe a bit of growing up where the please was misused I just can't agree that is a necessary word to add to EVERY request inorder to make that request polite.
I need your Licience and registration please = polite
I need to see you licence and registration thank you = polite
Give me you licence and registration NOW! = rude
ect..

Deanna


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
I just can't agree that it is a necessary word to add to EVERY request in order to make that request polite

i totally agree with this. i personally use please when i can, but i don't make my kids use manners with me. however, their tone does matter to me. i think they can be polite with their tone. they do use please & thank-you of course.....but i don't demand it - just model it.

on a completley random and different note, my ds last year had a terrible cold ...we were driving and he sneezed. a big gross yucky came out. he said, "mommy i need a tissue." my step mother-in-law grabbed one and said, "if you say please, i'll give it to you." i mean, he had snot on his face! i was so ticked off...i grabbed a tissue and gave it to him.

anyway.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Requiring your kids to say please is a different topic. I don't _require_ my son to say it, but he does and often. Say for example I'm nursing my DD, and he says to me, "Mommy I'm thirsty, I want something to drink." I will say to him, "Well if you can wait I can get it for you when your sister is done. Or I bet if you go ask Daddy really nicely he will get it for you." Then I hear DS go down the hall to DP and say, "Daddy, I'm thirsty can you get me some water please?" My DD is 15 months and doesn't know the word yet, but she says thank you for just about everything. And we know that's because we model it. We model it without even giving it much thought.


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

i haven't read the whole thread but it seems interesting so far...

here's my take. we use please and we use it a lot. i never make my son use it, though i will ask him if he can think of a way to say something politely, and he uses it with kindness and respect.

he can also be kind and respectful without the word please, which i think is why i'm not a stickler for it. my father lives with us and he'll often say "please?" after lazlo asks for something. but i figure if he's polite there's no need to tack on please every time. he's still being polite.

i should add, we often get comments on how polite he is.

it's sad because the neighbor kid down the street is ALWAYS getting in trouble for her "attitude" problem and the parents are constantly rude and disrespectful to her, "i'm TALKING now, you need to be SHUT UP!" or "what are you thinking?"

i think they give what they get please/no please or polite/rude.


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamabadger* 
I can see that please might be omitted when you are barking an order, like "Get your car off my bicycle!" but I cannot see that it is ever inappropriate or 'too sweet," just as it is never wrong to say thank you, even when you receive a gift you do not want or like.
Maybe it is a cultural/regional difference. I live near the Canada/U.S. border. We sometimes get American tourists here, who will tell other drivers to "get out of the way" or call out to someone on the street, "Hey! What time is it?" The people around him just cringe. _He_ thinks he is simply being friendly and straightforward, while Canadians feel he is being rude. Please and thank you might be used differently in different areas. Could that be it?

I think this is significant. I am Canadian and my in-laws are American and we go through this all of the time - they are rolling their eyes at me and I am cringing with how rude their manner of speaking sounds to me









The word please does not have to sound sticky sweet or passive aggressive. It _can_ sound that way but it doesn't automatically sound that way. It is just a word. Maybe it is more likely to be used that way and therefor sound that way in a culture where it is not used, except for in requests. Where I live, _not_ using please when you tell someone what to do is likely going to sound just plain aggressive!

It is also not a request, unless included in the phrase, "Would you please?" It is a word that when used in a sentence is polite and offering respect, but not deference.

When someone says, "Please move your car," I do not think they are asking me if I want to or to consider the idea of moving my car, they are telling me to and simply being courteous. If, however, they say, "Move your car," or "Get out of my way," I am likely to be ticked with them and think they are being rude. _That_ manner of speaking is more likely to leave me thinking, "Why should I?" or "Who do you think you are, odering me around like that?" than if they simply said please get out of my way.


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## Kira's mom (Nov 30, 2004)

I speak to dd as I would like to be spoken to. i prefer to be asked to do something with please and thank you included. I model the behavior. I treat people the way i wanted to be treated as much as possible- childen and adults


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## stickywicket67 (Jan 23, 2007)

what's with the hating on Americans??? not all of them are rude non please saying demanding jerks!









i say please and thank you all the time but in some instances i find it condescending and rude to add please to a demand/command.

Quote:

When someone says, "Please move your car," I do not think they are asking me if I want to or to consider the idea of moving my car, they are telling me to and simply being courteous. If, however, they say, "Move your car," or "Get out of my way," I am likely to be ticked with them and think they are being rude. That manner of speaking is more likely to leave me thinking, "Why should I?" or "Who do you think you are, odering me around like that?" than if they simply said please get out of my way.
i would say "would you mind moving your car?" before i'd ever say "please move your car". tacking on the "please" just doesn't make it sound polite to me. which is why i have problem with commands/demands with please added on. "please get out of my way" is rude no matter how you slice it. but a simple "pardon me" is not. "excuse me, please" would be ideal.









i don't think the OP meant she never uses the word please or doesn't "model" for her child how to be polite. my impression was that she was observing the overuse of the word "please" to where it becomes meaningless.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stickywicket67* 
i would say "would you mind moving your car?" before i'd ever say "please move your car". tacking on the "please" just doesn't make it sound polite to me. which is why i have problem with commands/demands with please added on. "please get out of my way" is rude no matter how you slice it. but a simple "pardon me" is not. "excuse me, please" would be ideal.



















But if you say "would you mind moving your car?" I can say, "yeah, I mind." Then it's a question. Whereas saying "please move your car" is not a question, but is polite.

-Angela


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

But... would you mind... is not a command... it's a request which is more polite than ordering other people around.... move your car please is 'using' the word please in order to get someone to follow your command. You're still bossing them around but using manipulation to gain control.


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## stickywicket67 (Jan 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 









But if you say "would you mind moving your car?" I can say, "yeah, I mind." Then it's a question.

and i would say "would you do it anyway? pretty please? with sugar on top?!"









Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Whereas saying "please move your car" is not a question, but is polite.
-Angela

and i'd quickly move my car while wondering who pissed in her Wheaties.









but, i get you.

i think we need to consider context. if a cop said "please move your car" or if a flight attendant said "please fasten your seatbelts..." i'd think nothing of it.
but if my mom or dh or friend or my boss (who i work with everyday) said it i'd wonder why so curt or why they were annoyed.


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

I've always used please, thank you, etc. with my kids. Now they're 5, 3, and 1-1/2... and the two eldest use it all the time with each others and strangers. They even say "May I" instead of "Can I" when appropriate.









I don't think you can ever be too polite, in general.







:


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## lurve (May 5, 2006)

i think it is more the tone of voice in my household than the word "please." i generally use "please" but sometimes i don't. but i KNOW it is my tone of voice that really carries whether it is a request/demand/me in a bad mood/etc. I think more is learned by how I present the request with my body language rather than with my actual words...


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## weliveintheforest (Sep 3, 2005)

I don't always say please. If I am asking for something, then yes, but if I am telling her to do something that is not optional, then no.


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stickywicket67* 
what's with the hating on Americans??? not all of them are rude non please saying demanding jerks!









i say please and thank you all the time but in some instances i find it condescending and rude to add please to a demand/command.

i would say "would you mind moving your car?" before i'd ever say "please move your car". tacking on the "please" just doesn't make it sound polite to me. which is why i have problem with commands/demands with please added on. "please get out of my way" is rude no matter how you slice it. but a simple "pardon me" is not. "excuse me, please" would be ideal.









i don't think the OP meant she never uses the word please or doesn't "model" for her child how to be polite. my impression was that she was observing the overuse of the word "please" to where it becomes meaningless.

Not hating on Americans here - just replying to a comment about cultural differences in another post. The fact that the use of the word please doesn't make something sound more polite to you tells me that we live in a different context because where I live it simply does sound polite and is considered the norm.

Me saying that my FIL's choice of expressions sounds rude to my ears doesn't mean that I think he or all Americans are rude any more than him rolling his eyes at me means that he and all Americans think that all Canadians are uptight wimps who can't speak directly.

There isn't one universally correct way to communicate politely and clearly - there are regional and cultural differences, as well as different values and priorities in each family


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## stickywicket67 (Jan 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lurve* 
i think it is more the tone of voice in my household than the word "please." i generally use "please" but sometimes i don't. but i KNOW it is my tone of voice that really carries whether it is a request/demand/me in a bad mood/etc. I think more is learned by how I present the request with my body language rather than with my actual words...


yup.

i try not to use the word "please" when i'm irritated or annoyed. it does nothing to teach good manners to hear me say "get off the table _please_!" or "could you _please_ hang up your wet towel"

in fact, i think it sounds imperious.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shantimama* 
*Not hating on Americans here - just replying to a comment about cultural differences in another post.* The fact that the use of the word please doesn't make something sound more polite to you tells me that we live in a different context because where I live it simply does sound polite and is considered the norm.

Me saying that my FIL's choice of expressions sounds rude to my ears doesn't mean that I think he or all Americans are rude any more than him rolling his eyes at me means that he and all Americans think that all Canadians are uptight wimps who can't speak directly.

There isn't one universally correct way to communicate politely and clearly - there are regional and cultural differences, as well as different values and priorities in each family









i was kidding.









i grew up in the US but my parents are very proper British. i grew up saying "please", "may i?" "thank you very much" and the "fine, thank you. how are you?"

so i hear what you are saying. i think we are missing context for some of the uses of please. context and tone.

for example- i find it incredibly rude when i greet someone who enters my little shop with "how are you today?" and i don't get in return a simple "fine, thank you. how are you?". i'm just being polite and acknowledging their presence. in the US it seems like people take my polite greeting as an inquisition.
are people in Canada that wigged out by friendly sales clerks?


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## mamabadger (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stickywicket67* 
i grew up in the US but my parents are very proper British. i grew up saying "please", "may i?" "thank you very much" and the "fine, thank you. how are you?"

so i hear what you are saying. i think we are missing context for some of the uses of please. context and tone.

for example- i find it incredibly rude when i greet someone who enters my little shop with "how are you today?" and i don't get in return a simple "fine, thank you. how are you?". i'm just being polite and acknowledging their presence. in the US it seems like people take my polite greeting as an inquisition.

Yes, the point is there seem to be fairly major regional differences in usage and attitude to terms like please and thank you. I find it unfathomable that people find using please "smarmy" or "manipulative," but it may be a matter of community standards.

Quote:

are people in Canada that wigged out by friendly sales clerks?








Maybe. When my family travelled to the southern U.S., we seemed to run into a lot of sales clerks who wanted to chat about what we were buying. That seemed intrusive to me, but again, it may be a cultural difference.

Canadians do get kidded a lot about the excessive use of thank you. In the course of one minor purchase, either the sales clerk or I have said thank you as many as six times in a couple of minutes. She says thank you when I hand her the money; I say thank you when she gives me the change; she says thank you when I hand over a coupon; I say thank you when she hands me the parcel, and again when she gives me the receipt. She says thank you for shopping at (store name), and wishes me a nice day. I say thank you, and leave. I never think about it at the time, because everybody does it; but objectively, I can see that it might sound odd to someone from other, less compulsively grateful parts of the world.


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## lovesprout (Apr 30, 2005)

For a short while we used the phrase "you may", but when studying NVC we learned it can be interpreted as manipulation. The same can be said with adding "please" to our requests to sugar-coat them.

We do use the word "please". However, we are mindful when using it. We are careful not to whine when saying "please" or to say it in a questioning tone. We simply say, "I would like you to help me now, please". Mostly though we would phrase it as "I need your help cleaning up the toys".


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovesprout* 
For a short while we used the phrase "you may", but when studying NVC we learned it can be interpreted as manipulation. The same can be said with adding "please" to our requests to sugar-coat them.

We do use the word "please". However, we are mindful when using it. We are careful not to whine when saying "please" or to say it in a questioning tone. We simply say, "I would like you to help me now, please". Mostly though we would phrase it as *"I need your help cleaning up the toys"*.


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