# Husband threatening to circ our 8m old without my consent



## EarthyMamaofDaisy (Aug 14, 2006)

When I was pregnant we had some pretty heated discussions about circumcision. When our son was born he was not eligible for a circumcision due to needing open heart bypass surgery soon after birth. The doctor said that he could be circed after 6 months by a urologist. Now our son is 8months old. I was sort of hoping my husband would forget about it since he doesn't change the diapers but the other day we had another heated fight about it. He said he will take a day off from work to bring him in without my permission if he has too. Now we have Medicaid for the kids and I'm hoping that at this point they wouldn't cover it because it would be a cosmetic procedure. I pointed this out to him and he said if he had to he would sell his truck to pay for it. His truck is worth about $8,000 (which is sitting on MY credit card) and I'm hoping it wouldn't be enough. Since my son has such major heart issues and is so old I'm hoping it would require anastesia and an OR with monitors and stuff. I really don't know but I can't imagine it would be a snip in someone's office. My husband is a big procrastinator so I'm not sure if he's really looked into it yet.
Does anyone know if I have any legal rights in this? Can he really make this decision all by himself? I'm going to ask his cardiologist if she can recommend it not be done, if a urologist should contact her for permission, but am not sure if she will go for it.
Help me save my son's foreskin!

Sara


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## Ecstatic (Aug 13, 2007)

Wow. I'm sorry, but that's just crazy. I'd tell him if he took my son to be circumcised without my consent, he'd be looking at divorce papers within 48 hours. Maybe that will give him pause to think.

Have you given him all the research? Shown him your side of things? Or is he just not open to it?

I'd say he can not do this without your consent. Both of you are the parents, and both of you must consent to surgical procedures. So, I'd say you're safe there ... but, on the other hand, I'd still be nervous about it.


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## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

Why is he so adamant that it be done?


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Get a sharpie and write on your son's belly (right under the diaper).."if you circumcise me my mother will sue you."

I doubt your DH would check under his diaper before taking him to the urologist. And I doubt the urologist will touch him with that warning!


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## Night_Nurse (Nov 23, 2007)

I don't know how to respond, and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but your husband doesn't sound like a very considerate man, threatening to go behind your back for unnecessary surgery and even selling a vehicle. Are you sure you want to stay with somebody who would treat you like this? I wouldn't.
Personally, I would leave my dh and get a restraining order. I'd also seek legal counsel and put in writing that if a medically unnecessary circ was done without my permission I'd sue both the father & the doctor. But that's just me.
I'm sorry for your situation but as I've said to people here before, there isn't a happy compromise to this. Either the child gets circed or he stays intact. It sounds like anesthesia maybe even more riskier for your child, I'm not sure. It always carries some risk to all people, even with excellent health. It wouldn't hurt to talk to his cardiologist. At least it would be a document stating (in his medical record) that you were concerned and possibly the Dr too. That might help if you had to go to court but I'm not sure.
I hope you'll stand your ground and make sure your son is left intact.
Good luck.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this stress.

I think there are probably several things you can do to help protect your son.... do you care for your son during the day or does he go to daycare? Do you do all the drop offs and pick ups at the day care, and could you change your paperwork there so your DH cannot pick up his son?

Could you have orders on file with your son's pediatrician and cardiologist that you do not allow your son to be circumcised?

How many urologists are in your area? I wonder if you can also do something preventative by talking to their offices or group practices about your concerns. Maybe you can get something on file there -- start a file for your son with MOTHER REFUSES CIRC in his records.

I also think you may need legal advice.

I think it's wrong that your husband is using threats like this and trying to pressure you. Keep close tabs on your son and I would arrange for other babysitters, etc. etc. It sounds like your DH is being both emotional and irrational when he says he will sell his truck etc. etc.

I would not argue with him, but I would be very watchful and talk to him about his concerns if and when he is calm about it, and you be calm too and dont' get caught up in his drama over it. Id just say it's not medically necessary and try to leave it at that, give the facts plainly.

Keep your son close. I hope this stress passes quickly.









ETA: Another preventative thought -- take a look at the financial controls you can put in place quietly -- check on Medicaid in your state so you know if you're safe or not. If Medicaid will pay for it, then see if you can give notice to Medicaid that you do not want them to cover a circ for your son and send them a letter or something.....

Obviously, you'll know if there's a for sale sign on the truck, but that's an empty threat... he's not going to do that. I'd see if you can restrict his access to credit, especially your credit, so that's not an option to him to fund a procedure. I would let the urology billing offices know that you do not want an account for your family at their office if you can.

Keep an eye out -- he may leave notes etc. about if he is actually talking to a doctor's office, etc. etc. I also might rip the doctor's listings for pediatricians and urology out of your yellow pages, etc. Check your internet history...

OK, I'm sounding totally paranoid!!!! But be watchful. Do what you can to protect yourself and do it quickly and quietly. I hope this blows over in time.

All his talk may just be moaning and groaning and puffery with no real intention to do it, he just wants you to know how upset he is, etc. and is communicating his frustration with it. That's what I think it probably is.... but..... be careful and do what you can to protect yourself and your son. If you think he could be violent over the matter, then give a little thought to preventing or protecting yourself from that too.

Again, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this stress, and I hope it's just him venting his bad feelings and frustration


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## wanderinggypsy (Jul 26, 2005)

Wow. I think I'd be considering a divorce.

Apart from that I'd be sending a letter to every doctor in the area who could possibly do the procedure. I would brief him/her on the situation and emphasize that I DO NOT consent. And that I would take legal action if it were done.

God what an awful situation. Scary, scary. I guess also I'd be pretty hesitant to leave DS with DH under such circumstances.


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## silverspook (Feb 20, 2006)

He's willing to sell his _truck_?

Sure, let him sell his truck...then he can't drive him to the circ appointment!


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## 2crazykids (Jun 19, 2005)

I would get a laywer and start proceedings for some sort of protective order. Call all the docs esp. the heart docs and get documentation that any unnecessary surgery would put babe at serious risk of heart complications. After all that I don't think you'll find a doc in your town that would go near that baby's penis!

Your DH is a UA violation.







: I'd kick him out and start divorce proceedings.


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## 2crazykids (Jun 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wanderinggypsy* 
Wow. I think I'd be considering a divorce.

Apart from that I'd be sending a letter to every doctor in the area who could possibly do the procedure. I would brief him/her on the situation and emphasize that I DO NOT consent. And that I would take legal action if it were done.

God what an awful situation. Scary, scary. I guess also I'd be pretty hesitant to leave DS with DH under such circumstances.

That too!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2crazykids* 

Your DH is a UA violation.







: I'd kick him out and start divorce proceedings.









:


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

I would be kicking DH out the door and filing for a divorce. No if's, and's, or but's.


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

ITA. Total dealbreaker. I cannot believe he is acting this way. You are the mother for God's sake, how traumatic for you, and especially for the baby if this actually happens. I would literally leave my dh if he threatened me this way. In fact, I would also pursue a court order for this NOT to happen, I would search high and low for a doctor who would help me.


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## Ron_Low (May 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
Get a sharpie and write on your son's belly (right under the diaper).."if you circumcise me my mother will sue you."

I was going to say the same thing.

Talk to a pediatric urologist about his/her requirements for permission from both parents.

Tell your husband you haven't decided the boy will never be circumcised, only that he won't be without his own informed adult consent.


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## homewithtwinsmama (Jan 5, 2005)

That would be grounds for divorce in my opinion and I would tell him so. The child is not suffering and would if he had it. General would most likely be required as well and risky. Get your cardio doc on board to tell you idiot partner that it makes no sense to take this risk with this child.


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## Raelynn (Apr 7, 2007)

I hate to say this, but I agree with the above posters. I would divorce my husband before I'd let him circumcise our son. I would tell your husband this, and also send letters to every urologist in your area saying that you will sue them if they circumcise your son. Your husband is being irrational by threatening to sell his truck to fund it.

Have you read this article to help you understand maybe what he's thinking in his head?
http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html


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## oliversmum2000 (Oct 10, 2003)

i cant help wondering if a divorce would leave the ops ds even less protected from the circumcision, as he may get visitation rights.....

i think written evidence from surgeons and any other medical professionals that this is not in her ds's best interest may be more effective


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

I can't think of too many reasons why I would leave my husband, but that would be one of them.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oliversmum2000* 
i cant help wondering if a divorce would leave the ops ds even less protected from the circumcision, as he may get visitation rights.....

i think written evidence from surgeons and any other medical professionals that this is not in her ds's best interest may be more effective

But she could get written into the divorce decree/parenting plan that ALL medical decisions will be made jointly. Therefore he wouldn't legally have the right to make the decision by himself.


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## Frootloop (Aug 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oliversmum2000* 
*i cant help wondering if a divorce would leave the ops ds even less protected from the circumcision, as he may get visitation rights.....*

i think written evidence from surgeons and any other medical professionals that this is not in her ds's best interest may be more effective

_bolding mine_








:

You know, I was thinking the exact same thing.. well, right after divorce instantly popped into my head.

I'm completely livid and sick to my stomach at the thought that someone's spouse would do something like this behind the other's back. It's absolutely disgusting







I am *SO* sorry you have to deal with this!!!

The others have all given you great advice already.. I'll just have to nod my head and agree with them as well. Send letters/make phone calls to every damn doctor in the area if need be. Threaten to sue anyone who even dares touch your son's genitals without your permission.

(((hugs)))


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## DBZ (Aug 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
But she could get written into the divorce decree/parenting plan that ALL medical decisions will be made jointly. Therefore he wouldn't legally have the right to make the decision by himself.

The prob with that is docs don't ask for the ex's permission. How would they know if this was even in the decree? I think the best way to handle it is to talk to the urologist, cardiologist and pediatrician.


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## EarthyMamaofDaisy (Aug 14, 2006)

Thank you all for your responses! I am going to start by contacting all urologists and discussing with his ped and cardiologist to put "no circ" on file. What a great idea!

Trust me, I wish I could divorce him. He has made a lot of threats in the past about if I were to divorce him. The problem with restraining orders is that they are just a piece of paper, and by the time the cops would be called it would be too late. I'm sort of stuck with him at the moment. Anyway, I also don't want to divorce him because I'm afraid he would get every other weekend visits and I don't leave him alone with the kids because he is just not a good parent. Also he has threatened to stop at nothing to get custody of the kids.

I'm not sure why he's so adamant about circing. I know he said when he was in the army there were a bunch of guys who weren't circed and they used to always complain about getting sweat in there and one guys got infections all the time. Also, he knows two guys who had to be circed as adults supposedly due to medical reasons. I tried to give him info about why I don't want to circ and he won't read it, and when I try to discuss it he just yells over my voice so he doesn't have to listen and says I have been getting crackpot advice.

I'm so glad you guys are out there for me. I feel encouraged now. I am home with the kids all day so if he were to come home and try to run off with Connor to get circed then I would threaten divorce and I guess maybe call the cops or something. Also, good point that if I saw a for sale sign on the truck then I would know he was up to something. I hadn't even thought of that!

Sara


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## DBZ (Aug 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EarthyMamaofDaisy* 
Trust me, I wish I could divorce him. He has made a lot of threats in the past about if I were to divorce him. The problem with restraining orders is that they are just a piece of paper, and by the time the cops would be called it would be too late. I'm sort of stuck with him at the moment. Anyway, I also don't want to divorce him because I'm afraid he would get every other weekend visits and I don't leave him alone with the kids because he is just not a good parent. Also he has threatened to stop at nothing to get custody of the kids.

Ok not to take the thread off subject, but I hate what you've said. He sounds like a major u/a violation. I doubt he'd ever get custody. I hope you are getting some kind of counseling to keep from going insane since you have to live with him.


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## Mrs-Mama (Jul 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ecstatic* 
I'd say he can not do this without your consent. Both of you are the parents, and both of you must consent to surgical procedures. So, I'd say you're safe there ... but, on the other hand, I'd still be nervous about it.

I'm not so sure this is true. My DS has had multiple surgeries to remove a hemangioma near his eye and I have signed the consent for all the surgeries. My DH is present most of the time when I'm signing them, but he has never signed one himself, and has occasionally not arrived at the surgery center until after I'm done signing everything. I don't even remember there being a place for more than one parent/guardian to sign.

To answer the OPs question, though, I'd definitely be talking to a lawyer ASAP.


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## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EarthyMamaofDaisy* 
Thank you all for your responses! I am going to start by contacting all urologists and discussing with his ped and cardiologist to put "no circ" on file. What a great idea!

Trust me, I wish I could divorce him. He has made a lot of threats in the past about if I were to divorce him. The problem with restraining orders is that they are just a piece of paper, and by the time the cops would be called it would be too late. I'm sort of stuck with him at the moment. Anyway, I also don't want to divorce him because I'm afraid he would get every other weekend visits and I don't leave him alone with the kids because he is just not a good parent. Also he has threatened to stop at nothing to get custody of the kids.

I'm not sure why he's so adamant about circing. I know he said when he was in the army there were a bunch of guys who weren't circed and they used to always complain about getting sweat in there and one guys got infections all the time. Also, he knows two guys who had to be circed as adults supposedly due to medical reasons. I tried to give him info about why I don't want to circ and he won't read it, and when I try to discuss it he just yells over my voice so he doesn't have to listen and says I have been getting crackpot advice.

I'm so glad you guys are out there for me. I feel encouraged now. I am home with the kids all day so if he were to come home and try to run off with Connor to get circed then I would threaten divorce and I guess maybe call the cops or something. Also, good point that if I saw a for sale sign on the truck then I would know he was up to something. I hadn't even thought of that!

Sara

Sara,

You are in an abusive relationship. It's not going to get better, it's going to get worse. He does not respect you. He's threatening to hurt your child. He's irrational and cannot be reasoned with. He's threatened you to keep you from leaving, he's using those threats-like doing everything possible to get full custody (ie, take your kids from you) to control you. This is not healthy or acceptable.

You deserve better, you're kids deserve to be safe and to grow up in a healthy home. Please please please start taking steps to prepare to leave like getting copies important documents (birth certificates, social security cards, immunization records, etc) together and start putting money aside if you can, that way if it gets to the point where you need to leave in a hurry you'll be able to do so more smoothly.

Power & Control Wheel

New Hampshire Domestic Violence Crisis And Support Resources

Quote:

Preparing To Leave An Abusive Marriage

Domestic violence is about control. Aggression is primitive and immature reactions to a sense of helplessness and feeling a loss of control by the abuser. If you are preparing to leave an abusive marriage you should expect the abuser to feel even less control. In other words, expect problems and be prepared for problems. Below are some actions you should take before leaving...

Leave Abuse



















Jen

PS. You may also want to start deleting your internet history just in case he might look at what sites you've been to, where & what you're posting.


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## Fi. (May 3, 2005)

Quote:

How would they know if this was even in the decree?
You could make sure every pediatrician in the area knew about it.

Honestly OP - you need to leave. For your childrens sake.


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
Get a sharpie and write on your son's belly (right under the diaper).."if you circumcise me my mother will sue you."

I doubt your DH would check under his diaper before taking him to the urologist. And I doubt the urologist will touch him with that warning!
























that's a good one!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

At 8 months he would have to be put under GA for it so it wouldnt be a quick in out thing. And with his heart problem there are very few Dr's who would risk putting him under fot a cosmetic proceedure.

Only a Dr. of dubious credintials would do the circ on your ds at this age without GA.

It is very possible that even with a decree of no circ in divorce papers he could find a ped urologist that would take his word if he said something like he was the sole provider. Paper is only good if someone sees it.

I am so sorry mama







you really are in a hard place







I have no idea what I would do in your situation.


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

have you seen this video? http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=481025
Has he seen it? Maybe if he does he will finally start seeing circ (male or female one) is mutilation and rape if he actually sees what it really is. Also, perhaps it will make him realize that just because his mom didn't spare him from this doesn't mean he has to put his son though this nightmare...


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## Attached Mama (Dec 4, 2005)

I'm so sorry! I agree that you need to begin taking steps now to get out at some point in time. This seems a lot bigger than just a circ issue (not that circ is not a huge issue tho).

I agree with pp's who said to get stuff from your doc on file and also agree that you should seek legal advice. You said you were on medicaid/care? If you have low income you should also be elligible for free legal advice.

Can you keep something around to record his threats so that a restraining order will bear more weight and so he wont' be able to get custody? I think my main concern would be custody. And then is there someplace far away you can move? You are a brave mama for staying put to protect your little one, but that won't work forever. Please prepare yourself for the future now.


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## phdmama06 (Aug 15, 2007)

I don't have a lot of advice for you, but I am so sorry to hear about your situation. It is just awful all around, and it just pains me that you feel trapped in what seems (to me) like a very abusive situation. You really need to consider what is best for you and your son. A man who is raising such a fuss about circumcision - going as far as to make all the threats he did - does not seem like a healthy influence, and is he really worth it? I would definitely consider consulting a lawyer, at least just to get a good sense of what your DS's rights are here and what steps you can take to prevent a circumcision from taking place.

Also, I'm assuming (could be wrong) that an 8 month old would be placed under GA for the procedure because he would be perhaps too big for the circumstraint they use for new borns and because he would be a lot stronger and more mobile. GA for a cosmetic procedure on an 8-month-old with a heart condition would seem like an awfully big risk that I would think any responsible physician would hesitate to take.


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## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

I agree with everything everyone else said: call every doc, rip out the phone book pages, get a lawyer, write on your son's belly... and make plans to get out of there.

How many children do you have? Do you have family or friends you could stay with for a few days/weeks?

My heart is just aching for you right now. Don't forget to clear your browser history/cache -- it is a very good idea.


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## ma_Donna (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm sorry, folks. But I really can't see that living without a FATHER is preferable to living without a foreskin!

Yes, it absolutely sounds like there are issues within EarthMama's marriage and I am so very sorry that your relationship is in this state. Having a partner tell you that they're going to do something irreversable to your child despite your specific objections is ... at best a huge breach of trust and faith.

Separate the issues and deal with them that way.

The strongest 'argument' I've found for leaving a child intact is that it is THEIR body and THEIR decision (this is my husband's statement).








Mama of 2 intact sons


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ma_Donna* 
I'm sorry, folks. But I really can't see that living without a FATHER is preferable to living without a foreskin!











What kind of father could this man possibly be? He threatens his wife to get her to stay. He threatens his wife to get his way and won't listen to her opinions, thoughts, worries, concerns. He doesn't give a s*&t about his child or his wife. They are both WAY better off without him.


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## homewithtwinsmama (Jan 5, 2005)

Contact a shelter and start saving money and making a getaway plan. Document any and every abusive thing he says or does. If he hurts you or threatens you call the police and get it reported. This is not a relationship that is going to improve. For your children's sake at some point you will need to be ready to flee. Clearly the circ. is only one aspect of his cruelty to all of you!


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
Only a Dr. of dubious credintials would do the circ on your ds at this age without GA.

There are pleanty of dubious DRs out there who might be willing to skip GA. I would not count on this as protection.

A few months back I remember someone posting about a couple who wanted to circ their new baby b/c their Dr said their older DS needed to be circ'd for ballooning and did it without any anesthisia at all. IIRC the child was 5.

I think the plan to call every uroligist and pediatrician in driving distance is the way to go.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

If you have your user names & passwords saved in your browswer, I'd delete those, too. Just keep them in your head. If he has any idea you post on message boards, I'd be worried about him using that saved info to log in as you and check up on what you've been saying.


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## 2crazykids (Jun 19, 2005)

Oh my gosh! The OP situation sounds so scary and sad.







This Mama and baby need tons of prayers and good thoughts.

I hope you get out safely mama. This man sounds dangerous.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oliversmum2000* 
i cant help wondering if a divorce would leave the ops ds even less protected from the circumcision, as he may get visitation rights.....


Yes to that. I think the OP's DH is being a drama queen and moping, pouting, kicking and screaming that he did not get his way on circ.

I don't think he will follow through, he is throwing a tantrum over the fact he did not get his way.

But the OP should be cautious and watchful.








My husband usually pouts for a few days when he's upset about something and then bounces back to normal. You may want to give him space to sulk and I wouldn't talk about circ with him, it would be throwing salt on his wound. I wouldn't bring up the topic at all, but if he talks about it you can give him info calmly, without debating him or getting caught up in his emotional responses.

I think you should think about divorce, not because of this, but if you are truly feeling like your marriage is working, I wouldn't stay just because of his threats. That said, your DH sounds like his is at the very least immature, possibly insecure, and not good at working as a team or expressing his needs or emotions constructively. That abuse power wheel is something to think about, and if that feels like what you are experiencing most of the time (and not just rare venting). In my relationship, my DH sometimes has been very very angry and expressed it poorly, but 99.5% of the time, he's able to handle his frustrations fairly well (he is selfish and immature at times and while it's frustrating for me, it's not a deal breaker.)

You know the details of your relationship and if you feel a divorce is the best solution for yourself and he kids. The resources posted are very good, and you should consider having savings of your own so you have some safety net for yourself. You may also want to consider marriage counseling. I think that he could use counseling if he is struggling with the circ thing so much, but based on his responses to the subject, he's in so much denial he wouldn't go to counseling about it. So give him space and be watchful and protective of your son.

If he has threatened to hurt or kill you if you leave him, please do talk with a domestic violence or women's shelter and get some support. I think you should do some soul searching to evaluate what is best for your family, and how to protect yourself and your children from harm.

I will hold you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital* 
But she could get written into the divorce decree/parenting plan that ALL medical decisions will be made jointly. Therefore he wouldn't legally have the right to make the decision by himself.

I'd say that the order should say that all medical decisions be made by HER and her alone. This makes things less complicated in minor treatments, where she'd be legally obligated to get his permission first.

I understand how some guys can be upset over not circ'ing; but I can't believe he's being such a UA violation!!


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## onelilguysmommy (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blu Razzberri* 
I'd say that the order should say that all medical decisions be made by HER and her alone. This makes things less complicated in minor treatments, where she'd be legally obligated to get his permission first.

I understand how some guys can be upset over not circ'ing; but I can't believe he's being such a UA violation!!









how would a doctor know about papers?
i took my older a month after he turned 2... gave them his info and all, but theres nothing asking about if i am the sole decision maker! i didnt write their dads info and put in mine, nowhere was i asked if i even have permission to do any of this, nor was i asked for their bc or anything else for my newborn or when i took my 2yo.
i dont see how papers would help anything other than possibly get him in trouble after if he were to do it.

mama,







id send a letter to every doctor within 150-200 miles who could possibly do it and have the info about his heart condition as well as that you WOULD sue if they touch your son, and a picture, maybe even of dad as well because like i said, they didnt ask for ID for either myself or my kids so... kwim?


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Sara,

Please start a paper trail documenting the abuse situations. If he hits you, go down and file a police report. Do whatever you can, so that if/when you do leave, you have a better chance of restricting his access to the kids.


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onelilguysmommy* 
how would a doctor know about papers?...

If he violates a court order, he faces serious consequence. I'd hope that would be enough to stop him. But on the other hand, you're right too. I'd do both....get the court order AND the other stuff, like inform doctors and stuff.

However, she can inform doctors from here to Timbuctoo....if he's that desperate to do it, what's stopping him from leaving the state and going to another place to do it? KWIM? There is no 100% failproof way, but there are ways to make him accountable for his actions if he does find the nerve to do it. I'd cover all my bases as best as possible.


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## perspective (Nov 3, 2007)

I have to admit that I generally disagree with the "Vulnerability of men" theory , because I feel the issue is much more complex then that theory allows. (not to mention it was a theory based totally on only outside observation, seeing as the guy who wrote it was uncut)

Here, there are two options, the first, the theory actually applies here. Or, this guys main concern is not the circumcision at all. From what it sounds like is that the OP is in an abusive relationship. Its name is a misnomer, because it avoids the modivating factor of the abuser, and that is total control. And just like many other parts of their life together, he wants control here too.

[To the OP] When you say "no, he wont be circumcised." Your taking a stand in something he feels he should have control over, and he refuses to accept this. (Just look, when you even bring up facts that might just question him, he yells at the top of his lungs so he wont hear it!)

I dont know exactly how to resolve things here. I think its important to make it clear to your doctor that you dont want this done, and you will sue him if he does. The only problem in saying this to all the local doctors, is in the future you will have a hard time finding a doctor that will take you, because they may fear being sued for something else. This is a tough spot, and that might be your only option. All I know is I dont think discussion is going to work here, only action and force, because thats the way he is playing this, so thats the only way you can respond.


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

I just wanted to send the OP a








. You really do not deserve this and neither do your children.


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## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ma_Donna* 
I'm sorry, folks. But I really can't see that living without a FATHER is preferable to living without a foreskin!

Well, in this situation the father is advocating for something most of us consider child abuse---cutting the genitals of a nonconsenting minor without medical indication---so, I think if this man is truly insistent it's more of a choice between single parenthood (at least temporarily) with a responsible, loving, compassionate, and protective mother or an intact family with an abusive husband and father. Circumcision is only part of the issue, but even if it was the *only* issue I would encourage a woman to put her foot down, stand firm, and protect her child at all costs, even if the outcome was divorce; children's private parts, well being, and human rights should never ever be on the table a marital bargaining chip. Hurting children should be non-negotiable.

Jen


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## swellmomma (Jan 1, 2004)

Can you just book an appt with a urologist there? out here you need a referal from your dr and it is a long wait. Start with the ped with lettinghimknow that there is no way you want your son circ'd if that is the case. Then start calling urologists in teh area to let them know your wishes.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pdx.mothernurture* 
...cutting the genitals of a nonconsenting minor without medical indication...

Heck, in this case, even AGAINST medical indication.


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## bluetoes (May 12, 2007)

For OP's husband this isn't about the circ - this is about power and control, one more way to be abusive. If the circ. happens then he'll move on to something else. And while I would throw myself in front on a flying bullet to protect my son from that, what would be the even more horrifying outcome is not he DS looking like daddy. It would him ACTING like daddy. Abuse is a learned behavior in many instances and I don't think I could live with myself knowing my son could turn out like that. OP GIANT GIANT hugs to you. Please make a plan, save some $ and get the heck out of there. You deserve better as do you children.


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## SquibsNCrackers (Oct 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pdx.mothernurture* 
Sara,

You are in an abusive relationship. It's not going to get better, it's going to get worse. He does not respect you. He's threatening to hurt your child. He's irrational and cannot be reasoned with. He's threatened you to keep you from leaving, he's using those threats-like doing everything possible to get full custody (ie, take your kids from you) to control you. This is not healthy or acceptable.

You deserve better, you're kids deserve to be safe and to grow up in a healthy home. Please please please start taking steps to prepare to leave like getting copies important documents (birth certificates, social security cards, immunization records, etc) together and start putting money aside if you can, that way if it gets to the point where you need to leave in a hurry you'll be able to do so more smoothly.

Power & Control Wheel

New Hampshire Domestic Violence Crisis And Support Resources



















Jen

PS. You may also want to start deleting your internet history just in case he might look at what sites you've been to, where & what you're posting.









: EXCELLENT post.







op


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## Inci (Apr 22, 2005)

Sara, what a painful situation to be in! I'm sending you virtual hugs!
I agree with everyone else who has recommended that you immediately start formulating an exit plan. Your husband sounds controlling, manipulative, and dangerous. You and your children deserve love and kindness and respect. I can imagine that getting away from your husband might seem like a very difficult thing to do, especially when he threatens to do even more harm if you leave... but if you stay, it will only get worse. And women DO get away from their abusers, there ARE resources, and there ARE kind people in the world who will help! Have you ever talked with someone at a local women's crisis services center? It might help a lot, both for concrete, practical ideas, and emotional support as well.
Good luck, and keep posting... but also keep clearing your browser history to stay safe!


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## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)

Quote:

And while I would throw myself in front on a flying bullet to protect my son from that, what would be the even more horrifying outcome is not he DS looking like daddy. It would him ACTING like daddy.










Jen


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pdx.mothernurture* 
Well, in this situation the father is advocating for something most of us consider child abuse---cutting the genitals of a nonconsenting minor without medical indication---so, I think if this man is truly insistent it's more of a choice between single parenthood (at least temporarily) with a responsible, loving, compassionate, and protective mother or an intact family with an abusive husband and father. Circumcision is only part of the issue, but even if it was the *only* issue I would encourage a woman to put her foot down, stand firm, and protect her child at all costs, even if the outcome was divorce; children's private parts, well being, and human rights should never ever be on the table a marital bargaining chip. Hurting children should be non-negotiable.

Jen









:


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## ~Boudicca~ (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pdx.mothernurture* 
Sara,

You are in an abusive relationship. It's not going to get better, it's going to get worse. He does not respect you. He's threatening to hurt your child. He's irrational and cannot be reasoned with. He's threatened you to keep you from leaving, he's using those threats-like doing everything possible to get full custody (ie, take your kids from you) to control you. This is not healthy or acceptable.

You deserve better, you're kids deserve to be safe and to grow up in a healthy home. Please please please start taking steps to prepare to leave like getting copies important documents (birth certificates, social security cards, immunization records, etc) together and start putting money aside if you can, that way if it gets to the point where you need to leave in a hurry you'll be able to do so more smoothly.

Power & Control Wheel

New Hampshire Domestic Violence Crisis And Support Resources



















Jen

PS. You may also want to start deleting your internet history just in case he might look at what sites you've been to, where & what you're posting.

I agree with every word of this post.

OP, I think this goes way beyond just having a disagreement about circ, he is manipulative and using threats to "keep you in your place", so to speak. And that is what an abuser does.


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## serendipity22 (Sep 19, 2006)

Quote:

Husband threatening to circ our 8m old without my consent
This is a sign of extreme irrational anger.

Remove all the rationalizations and you will find anger/hatred or fear are often basic motivations for circ.

I agree with the remarks re abusive realtionship.


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## QuietTempest (Aug 5, 2004)

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with all this. The posters above all give great advice and I hope you make use of some, if not all, of it.


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## RachelGS (Sep 29, 2002)

Sara, I'm frightened for you. You're in an abusive relationship. You are stuck only until you make the choice to get out. There is help available to keep you and your children safe. You don't have to live in fear.


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

Are you working, with your child in daycare during the day? You can talk with your daycare provider, and request that you be notified ASAP if your husband picks the baby up early. (for example at 9am right after you drop him off)

Also, the longer you keep your child intact, the better his long term chances. For example, if your marriage falls apart after he turns 3, you can have "do not circ" in the divorce agreement, and there will be an additional medical ground for it, the risk of psychological damage (if you can get a therapist to agree to this one)

IF circ is done under GA, the baby will have to be brought in on an empty stomach. No food or drink for 6 hours +. Of course, circ could be done under local he finds a doc to do it.

I would strongly suggest you talk very frankly with your pediatrician. (and maybe the cardiologist) Explain that you have a strong held religious objection to circumcision. ("God made my baby perfect" can go with _almost_ any religion.) Explain that your husband has been verbally or physically abusive in ways ______, and is now threatening to have your son circumcised as a way to abuse you. If there has been ANY verbal abuse of your children (screaming at them counts here, or hitting with any object, or spanking and leaving a mark) this would be a good time to discuss it - you are creating documentation that your husband is abusive.

IF you husband tries to arrange for a circ, the dr may contact the cardiologist office or pediatricians office, to ask for medical background. Having the above talk in advance with the Ped and Cardio could trigger them to notify you.

Some husbands have been adamant about circ, and then softened or changed there minds later... we hope this happens for yours, though I am not holding my breath. You need a counselor and an escape plan. I am sorry.

I am so sorry you are having to deal with this.


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## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

Quote:

Circumcision is only part of the issue, but even if it was the *only* issue I would encourage a woman to put her foot down, stand firm, and protect her child at all costs, even if the outcome was divorce; children's private parts, well being, and human rights should never ever be on the table a marital bargaining chip. Hurting children should be non-negotiable.
Well said!

Quote:

I would strongly suggest you talk very frankly with your pediatrician. (and maybe the cardiologist) Explain that you have a strong held religious objection to circumcision. ("God made my baby perfect" can go with almost any religion.) Explain that your husband has been verbally or physically abusive in ways ______, *and is now threatening to have your son circumcised as a way to abuse you. If there has been ANY verbal abuse of your children (screaming at them counts here, or hitting with any object, or spanking and leaving a mark) this would be a good time to discuss it - you are creating documentation that your husband is abusive.*
IF you husband tries to arrange for a circ, the dr may contact the cardiologist office or pediatricians office, to ask for medical background. Having the above talk in advance with the Ped and Cardio could trigger them to notify you.

Some husbands have been adamant about circ, and then softened or changed there minds later... we hope this happens for yours, though I am not holding my breath. You need a counselor and an escape plan. I am sorry.
YES! And I cannot see a doctor agreeing to a circ on an older baby _without_ his medical history. If mother documents that her child is not to be circumcised, any doctor could be sued that agreed to circ.

I would still contact all pediatricians and urologists in the area and notify them personally that your son is not to be circumcised-- I don't think a doctor would refuse later treatment, simply because you are having a struggle with your DH over one medical issue.

And yes, some men do eventually come around. In the meantime, OP should make _necessary_ emergency arrangements, _just in case_.
Hopefully, he is just running his mouth, but human beings are capable of some horrible things (don't want the father trying to DIY circ, you know?).


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## onelilguysmommy (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thixle* 

I would still contact all pediatricians and urologists in the area and notify them personally that your son is not to be circumcised-- I don't think a doctor would refuse later treatment, simply because you are having a struggle with your DH over one medical issue.

ad OB or GYN and possibly MW as well and rabbi/mohels


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## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)

Just bumping because I was thinking about this thread and the OP today, wondering how she was doing.










Jen


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

Oh Sara, I am so sorry. This is the last thing you and Connor need after all he has been through.









I know you said your dh is not interested in any information, but has he seen or could you get him to watch the ? It is crass humor and full of swear words and vulgarities but some people hear it better that way.

I can't imagine that doctors would agree that cosmetic surgery would be something Connor is up for? I agree with getting something in writing in his med. files.


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