# Help counter pro-spanking argument



## mowilli3 (Jan 7, 2007)

ARGGHHH! I'm so frustrated. I just finished a phone conversation with a good friend who almost always shares my perspective. I told her about Unconditional Parenting and she said that she thought that people should spank their kids more because kids don't respect authority these days. I said that spanking is humiliating. She responded that a little humiliation is good. To that I said that humiliation does not teach empathy, respect, or compassion; those things are taught through love. She said that she loved her parents and that she looks back on her spankings, even getting her own switch, with fondness.

I asked her, since she is childless, whether she would hit another adult if s/he annoyed her. She said no but that kids are different from adults. I said, "That's right. They are more vulnerable and dependent on us." She said that she could never hit her cat, but that kids needed guidance. To that I responded that kids crave guidance and security from birth, but too many parents push their kids away as infants in an effort to make them independent when kids want to be close. Then adults resort to hitting because they don't feel that they have any leverage. She dismissed my suggestion that our society is so violent because we teach violence as a means to solve problems (spurious association she said). And she argued that people all over the world spank their kids and the kids have more respect for their parents than here. Talk about spurious associations!

I'm so angry and my heart is hurting. Please give me so good arguments. This woman had a miscarriage at 20 weeks last summer. It was her first baby. She is really hurting from this, but she does not acknowledge that she is a mother. I know that if she recognized that baby, she would ache thinking about anybody ever hitting him, especially since she would never hit her cat. I know it's not my place to tell her how to parent, but I really feel strongly against hitting.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

There are some wonderful articles here







I know how hard it is to have someone who's very close feel totally differently about this important topic.


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## kkar (May 22, 2005)

I think you made your point well. Give her some time to think about it and she may come around. I'm especially sure that when she eventually has a child, she'll re-think her position.

As a much less extreme example, I find that people who don't have kids are fairly intolerant of noise and commotion in restaurants, airplanes, etc. but once they have kids, it's a whole different story.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mowilli3* 
She said that she loved her parents and that she looks back on her spankings, even getting her own switch, with fondness.

You might tell her there are plenty of internent sites for consenting adults who share her beliefs, but you really don't understand what that has to do with gently guiding children to be responsible adults.


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## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mowilli3* 
She said that she loved her parents and that she looks back on her spankings, even getting her own switch, with fondness.

I.

Ok, I suggest that you don't even try to argue with her. She looks back on her spankings with fondness? Either there is something wrong with her or she just likes to argue.


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## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

just wait....she'll change (probably)...before I had kids I thought spanking was okay...duh

I also had a good friend who used to say she was pro- CIO etc and thought I was way too permissive - now she has a child she changed her tune LOL

so odds are good your friend will probably change once confronted with "reality"










peace
robyn


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## saraann (Dec 1, 2006)

spank her!








No seriously, I think that she'll probably change her mind once she has a child.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

It sounds like she was spanked and does not hold it aginst her parents. I'm the same way. My parents spanked and I don't feel it was abuse. We are close. They are kind, loving (non-spanking) grandparents. Long story short, when you tell her all your thoughts on spanking she may feel you are invalidating her feelings about her childhood. I know I tend to roll my eyes (it used to make me angry but now I get that what some stranger believes to be true does not change a damn thing, I know I had a healthy childhood) when people want to tell me how abused I was.

Also, I'm not sure why you feel like you need to win her over or have her approval about your parenting methods. She doesn't have children or have children in her care, all her ideas are just theory and subject to change.

Another thing to remember is that you have a child and she miscarried. The "you don't get it because you are childless" argument/attitude is probably particularly painful. And related to that, I don't think it's your place to tell her how to feel or decide what her thoughts should be on her loss (I'm referring to the following comment: She is really hurting from this, but she does not acknowledge that she is a mother. I know that if she recognized that baby, she would ache thinking about anybody ever hitting him). I would very much take HER lead on that subject.

If you really want to win her over to your side, I would focus less on spanking and what's wrong with it and more on effective parenting. She most likely has associated no spanking with permissive parenting. If I ever end up in the spanking conversation (which I try to avoid), I generally focus on the idea that I have a "bag of tricks" that does not include hitting because a. I think it's wrong b. there are other things that "work" and c. if misconstrued by some nosey stranger, spanking can get your kids removed. Obviously, that doesn't even begin to slightly touch on my whole parenting philosophy but they are three big points that most people who spank, or think they will, can usually respect.

BTW, the "we don't hit our pet, how can we do less for our child" logic totally worked on my husband so you might bring it up.


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## bec (Dec 13, 2002)

I totally changed my tune about spanking after I had kids. Before, I had assumed that I would spank. I thought it would be one of many techniques I used, but was convinced that the time would come that I would "need" to spank my child. Once I had that little baby in my arms, though, I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I would never hit her. Give your friend time, and talk about the discipline techniques that you do use and find really effective.

Also, as far as her miscarriage and considering herself a mother, really, her own grief about the death of her baby is her own. She needs to deal with it in her own way. I would tread very carefully around that subject.


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## -Blair- (Jul 23, 2005)

I thought I would spank, and when it came around to having children I never did.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

"I look back on my spankings with fondness" is a very different statement than "I'm not angry with my parents for spanking me". Not the same statement at all.

Personally I wouldn't argue with her. But, when someone does say "I look back on spankings with fondness" I would simply ask "Okay. Tell me what you felt at the moment you were being hit?". Because if you answer that honestly, it won't be so rosy, and it's a little more obvious what problems exist with hitting as a form of discipline. This hasn't got anything to do with being angry with your parents, or not being close to them now, or condemning your childhood as abusive. I think all of us as parents can imagine what our children are likely to feel if we picked a tree branch and hit them with it. Consider their reaction. Would it even seem normal for our children to feel warm, fuzzy, happiness towards us or themselves in that moment? No, we probably cannot even imagine that. We know it would upset them. So when someone says 'I have fond memories of being hit as a child' it rings false. Because I cannot imagine a real child actually saying that. It isn't a description of normal child behavior. It's disturbing really. And sad









Either way, arguing with someone who says that is a dead end.

I would lead by example, not by arguing with her. Give her books if she asks for them. Otherwise, let it go.


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## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

Yeah, another vote to let it go. I used to think CIO, spanking, circing wasn't SOOOO bad, until I had a child.







I thought CIO was the only way to get them to sleep, co-sleeping was weird, circing should be dh's decision since he also has a penis. I guess it wasn't that I was PRO any of these things, it was that I was more ambivelant, and since everyone around me does them, I just assumed I would too. When I had dd, everything changed. I could not imagine just standing by while she cried, not for a minute. I could not imagine ever laying a hand on her that was not in tenderness. I could not imagine cutting a piece of her off shortly after I put her to my breast for the first time. (I was also unfortunate enough to walk into a circ taking place in the hospital, I saw the baby all strapped up, and a doctor 'in training' was performing the circ while another instructed. I almost died.





















) Anyway, there is the possibility that she will change her mind once she has her baby. HTH


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