# Which boosters in an RV?



## dillonandmarasmom (May 30, 2005)

We brought home our new (used) RV today, and right away we realized the seatbelt situation would pose a problem. Our kids need new boosters. But, which ones? I want 5 point harnesses, but our kids currently use shoulder/lap belts in a Britax booster and a hand-me-down Eddie Bauer booster. I need some opinions!

TIA!


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Are there forward-facing seats or side-facing seats? Carseats can only be installed in forward-facing seats.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

yeh ive heard car seats dont go in most rv;s.


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## BeckC (Nov 27, 2006)

The problem with RVs is that the only seats that are bolted to the frame are the two front seats. Other seating positions have seatbelts, but they are bolted to a plywood floor. In an accident it's possible (even likely) that the seatbelt would be ripped right out of the floor. Also like a PP said, carseats cannot be used in side or rear facing seats.


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## dillonandmarasmom (May 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Are there forward-facing seats or side-facing seats? Carseats can only be installed in forward-facing seats.

We have only forward or rear facing belted seats (in the dinette).


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dillonandmarasmom* 
We have only forward or rear facing belted seats (in the dinette).

Actually the only seat that child restraints can be used in is the front passenger seat.

Pull the cushions off the bench seats in the dinette and you'll see why. The seatbelts are just bolted to plywood


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## dillonandmarasmom (May 30, 2005)

Thanks for the replies.
We are going to be bolting a steel panel to the frame and attaching the seat belts there. Now to find the right boosters.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

I cannot stress enough how much I strongly discourage you from doing that.

I also highly recommend putting your 3 year old back in a harness.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Ok, I totally get why that is a bad idea... but do folks have any *good* ideas for the OP? Is there a safe way to transport the family in an RV?


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
Ok, I totally get why that is a bad idea... but do folks have any *good* ideas for the OP? *Is there a safe way to transport the family in an RV?*

Not really. I'm sorry.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
Ok, I totally get why that is a bad idea... but do folks have any *good* ideas for the OP? Is there a safe way to transport the family in an RV?

No, there is no safe solution. Like I said previously, the only seat that is acceptable to install child restraints in is the front passenger seat.

There are many reasons this is unsafe (OP, this is not necessarily aimed at you, but more for general information).

1) Position of seats. Lots of RVs have seats facing sideways, or towards the back of the vehicle.

2) Seatbelts. RVs are not included under FMVSS209, and are not crash tested. Excluding the driver and passenger seats, seatbelts in RVs are usually just bolted to plywood. Also, and this pertains to the OP, they are lap-only belts, so you can never ever use a booster.

3) Projectiles. RVs are filled with nasty projectiles, including large items such as TVs.

4) General instability of the vehicle. RVs tend to be top-heavy and prone to rollovers.


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## RoadWorkAhead (Sep 8, 2005)

WE're planning to put DS in the front passenger OP. He's in a FF 5 pt harness (Nautilus). DD and DCtobe will be in the dinette. We're considering options for having seatbelts mroe securely installed but seeing as an RV isn't optional or for fun around here but will be our house, we'll find the best we can get it in. We'll hold off on kiddo #4 until we are able to have a new FF seat installed behind passenger or we decide to trade a MoHo for a TT (A way more expensive option hence why its not our first choice). There are companies that will install a 2nd capt. chair behind passngers captains chair that can have similar belting options to front seats.

Also, any Rver worth their salt knows better than to travel with TVs and such in non-completely secured locations. Older RVs may have them, but most people upgrade/change such things to be safe (IE nothing on counters, no overhead TVS, plexiglass covering microwave, locked off to keep in place, etc.). Those who have lives that dictate travel in great quantities really have discovered many ways to improve the safety. I suggest looking at groups like Families on the Road, UNschoolers on the Road, and the Fulltime RVers sites. Those should give you the most tips on making your choices as safe as possible.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kierdan'sMom* 
We'll hold off on kiddo #4 until we are able to have a new FF seat installed behind passenger or we decide to trade a MoHo for a TT (A way more expensive option hence why its not our first choice).

This is what we decided to do, as well. More expensive, but well worth it.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeckC* 
The problem with RVs is that the only seats that are bolted to the frame are the two front seats. Other seating positions have seatbelts, but they are bolted to a plywood floor. In an accident it's possible (even likely) that the seatbelt would be ripped right out of the floor. Also like a PP said, carseats cannot be used in side or rear facing seats.

Our seatbelts at the dinette are for sure bolted in to the frame. It might depend on the manufacturer/age of the vehicle.

OP, there is nowhere to anchor a five point harness, so if they are old/big enough for a booster, just find one that fits the seatbelt properly. We have three different booster seats, and only one fits nicely in the passenger seat. And it's perfectly safe there, as there are no air bags. But dd is now 8, and officially doesn't need anything, so can sit in any belt fine.

I know the laws are different for a motorhome, but I'm honestly not sure what they are (we buckle in no matter what, so it's not an issue).

Have you tried rv.net for info?


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kierdan'sMom* 
Also, any Rver worth their salt knows better than to travel with TVs and such in non-completely secured locations. Older RVs may have them, but most people upgrade/change such things to be safe (IE nothing on counters, no overhead TVS, plexiglass covering microwave, locked off to keep in place, etc.).

While that's a good start, the wooden cabinets don't do much to contain heavy stuff like plates, coffee cups, etc in a crash.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
Our seatbelts at the dinette are for sure bolted in to the frame. It might depend on the manufacturer/age of the vehicle.

It does for sure depend on the RV. My IL's RVs have all had seatbelts bolted to the plywood.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
OP, there is nowhere to anchor a five point harness, so if they are old/big enough for a booster, just find one that fits the seatbelt properly.

I'm not sure about this statement. Lapbelts are perfectly acceptable to install car seats with. Just not in an rv









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
We have three different booster seats, and only one fits nicely in the passenger seat. And it's perfectly safe there, as there are no air bags. But dd is now 8, and officially doesn't need anything, so can sit in any belt fine.

Again, you absolutely cannot use a booster with a lap-only belt. Since OP has 2 kids who are both in boosters, at least one would have to be sitting in a lap only belt.


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## RoadWorkAhead (Sep 8, 2005)

I'm looking at this frmo a living in stand point, so while it may seem to you that lots of people travel with tons of unsecured items, and I'm sure many do, most RVers as in fulltimers, have long since secured things with more than simple cabinet doors. You'd be amazed at the different ways to do this.

OP, another thought is removing the dinnette's back seat and professionally installing an appropriate bench seat from a van. I've seen it a few times. I'm sure with the proper equipment and a good welder on hand, you could have one installed directly into the frame under the MoHo that had built in shoulder belts. Expensive, but not terribly horribly so. It does remove the under seat storage area, but would be another option for car seats/boosters.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kierdan'sMom* 
I'm looking at this frmo a living in stand point, so while it may seem to you that lots of people travel with tons of unsecured items, and I'm sure many do, most RVers as in fulltimers, have long since secured things with more than simple cabinet doors. You'd be amazed at the different ways to do this.

Yes, I'm just thinking of my inlaws' RV, which is complete with one of those little racks attached to the underside of the cabinets, with the little hooks that you hang coffee cups from. They often have dishes in the sink, too. They are not exactly very safety minded. They could not understand why, when everyone else rode in the RV from CA to AZ, DH and I rented a car.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I put my ds in my grandparents rv, against my better judgement. I used a harnessed seat, so it was ok with lap belt only. I did check where the seat belts connected to, and it wasn't the plywood of the seat. My grandpa said that they were connected to the frame, but I don't know.
Not something I would do again, knowing what I learned after that (just general info).

OP- you could call the RV manufacturer and see if any seats in the RV are ok for child seats.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Again, you absolutely cannot use a booster with a lap-only belt. Since OP has 2 kids who are both in boosters, at least one would have to be sitting in a lap only belt.

That was my thought. You can not use lap only belts with boosters.
You can use lap only belts with harnessed seats though. (in a safe location, etc).


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## dillonandmarasmom (May 30, 2005)

Okay, to clarify...

The reason I asked about which boosters to get is because *we are going back to 5 point harnesses for both kiddos*. We bought a Minnie Winnie (Winnebago--the most solidly built RVs in the business) and it turns out that all three seats *are* bolted directly to the frame.

So, to make sure everyone is clear, it will be very much like riding in a large van. No lap belts only. No bolting to plywood (which I asked about and many explained that thjis was more likely in an RV that has been upgraded or renovated). No rear-facing.

Thank you for hashing out my concerns for me, though







.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Super! Good to hear on all accounts.

Although, looking at the pics in your blog, even the front seats are only lap belts. And the one seat you can see at the dinette is rearfacing.


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## dillonandmarasmom (May 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
I cannot stress enough how much I strongly discourage you from doing that.

I also highly recommend putting your 3 year old back in a harness.

Was this in response to the steel plate? If so, it would actually act as a reinforcement to the actual frame. This would result in a more solid base than what most vehicles currently have. And, there are several folks in both sides of the family whom are very skilled at welding, so we're covered. Thanks again!


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## dillonandmarasmom (May 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Super! Good to hear on all accounts.

Although, looking at the pics in your blog, even the front seats are only lap belts. And the one seat you can see at the dinette is rearfacing.

Yep, DH and I have lap belts in the captains' chairs. The dinette has a forward and rear-facing bench.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dillonandmarasmom* 
Was this in response to the steel plate? If so, it would actually act as a reinforcement to the actual frame. This would result in a more solid base than what most vehicles currently have. And, there are several folks in both sides of the family whom are very skilled at welding, so we're covered. Thanks again!

Yes, you really shouldn't make any modifications. Really, you have no idea how it will hold in a crash.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
I'm not sure about this statement. Lapbelts are perfectly acceptable to install car seats with. Just not in an rv









Good God no! Five point harness seats have to be anchored in, with the big strap from the top, behind the seat, and to the anchor spot.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/child...tage2/menu.htm They call it tether strap/tether anchor.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Here's another pic. http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/1...tether.500.jpg


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deva33mommy* 
I used a harnessed seat, so it was ok with lap belt only.

You can use lap only belts with harnessed seats though. (in a safe location, etc).


Check my links, no you can't use lap only belts. Unless you mean you don't need the shoulder bit, but you DO need to anchor/tether it.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I'm a CPST and in the US it is perfectly acceptable to install harnessed seats with lap belts only. Top tether is recommended but not required, and all harnessed seats can be installed with vehicle belts instead of lower anchors.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Well in Canada it is ILLEGAL to not use a tether on a forward facing harnessed seat. And yes, in a harnessed seat WITH tether, lap belt only is fine.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
Well in Canada it is ILLEGAL to not use a tether on a forward facing harnessed seat. And yes, in a harnessed seat WITH tether, lap belt only is fine.

Correct. That's why I stated that it's legal in the US to install a seat with lap belt only, and there are some seats that have very good crash test results with lap belt only.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
Well in Canada it is ILLEGAL to not use a tether on a forward facing harnessed seat. And yes, in a harnessed seat WITH tether, lap belt only is fine.

Once again, RVs are excluded from FMVSS209 (CMVSS209 in Canada) which means they do not have to be equipped with tether anchors so not tethering is not illegal.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Correct. That's why I stated that it's legal in the US to install a seat with lap belt only, and there are some seats that have very good crash test results with lap belt only.

Yes, it is completely appropriate to use a lap belt only for a FF install.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
Here's another pic. http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/1...tether.500.jpg

Thank you, I am well aware of what a top tether is.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
Check my links, no you can't use lap only belts. Unless you mean you don't need the shoulder bit, but you DO need to anchor/tether it.

Yeah I was thinking of the shoulder straps that aren't needed. I actually wasn't thinking of the top tether at all in that post.

That is the law in Canada (where I do live now). It's not necessary in the US. Though, I think it's safe to say that it is safer to have the top tether than not. I personally use it when I'm in the US, too.

eta- others beat me to it.


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