# carseat in the front seat?



## hrsmom (Jul 4, 2008)

I have just decided to research putting the carseat in the front seat, and this is my first stop! I don't even know if it's legal in California, but I sure hate having my baby in the back seat, and I know she hates the carseat. Does anyone know if it's legal in CA (I'd be happy to pay to have the airbags de-activated) and if it is legal- any ideas? As it is, I drive with one hand and let her hold my finger when she's really upset. Just wondering! She's an infant, 15 + pounds if that matters.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I dont know if it is legal but I do know that if you were in a accident with her in the front even without airbag on there is a very high chance of her being seriously injured or killed







The way cars are made now the front end almost completly collapses into the driver compartment and with that car seat there, rear facing, it would push back into her seat.

The saffest place is rear center.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

from my understanding, the current Ca. law is:

California: 5 years and younger or less than 60 pounds must be in the rear seat.

sorry i dont have a cite for you.

center rear facing up to the limit of the seat (many convertibles can get up to 35 lbs.) is safest.


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## odenata (Feb 1, 2005)

Off the CA Highway Patrol website:

Quote:

New law beginning January 1, 2005: Children MUST be secured in an appropriate child passenger restraint (safety seat or booster seat) IN THE BACK SEAT OF A VEHICLE until they are at least 6 years old or weigh at least 60 pounds.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

It is not legal and. more importantly, it is not safe. The backseat is by far the safest place for children. And you can't just have airbags deactivated -- no reputable mechanic will do it. You have to petition the NHTSA and "hating having the baby in the backseat" will likely not be approved.


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## hrsmom (Jul 4, 2008)

Thanks so much!!! It doesn't hurt to ask!! I really appreciate the responses. That makes sense about the airbags, too! Maybe it was a silly question, but I had to ask!!


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## BeckC (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm glad you've decided not to put her in the front seat.

Maybe we can help you with the car situation though. There are some things that can make kids happier in the car. What kind of car seat is she in? Is it an infant seat? Quite a few kids are much happier once they get out of an infant seat and into a convertible.


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## Papooses (Dec 20, 2006)

I see you've already decided not to do it, but I just wanted to add a few facts for the sake of any lurkers living in areas where it might not be illegal....

The backseat is 40-86%

Having baby in the front is usually more of a distraction, which increases risk of crashing in the first place.

Front airbags have also shattered RF carseats.


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## janasmama (Feb 8, 2005)

and even when airbags are deactivated there is still a risk of them being deployed on impact.


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## medicmama (May 5, 2006)

Please don't put her in the front!


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

As posted above, the baby is safest in the back, and it is apparently illegal in you state to have her in the front.

But the disparity in safety from the front to the back seat gets overstated, IMO. From the AAP's study Effects of Seating Position and Appropriate Restraint Use on the Risk of Injury to Children in Motor Vehicle Crashes, which examined the experiences of 17980 children in 11506 crashes:

Quote:

[The following] presents the predicted risk of serious injury...appropriately restrained children in the front seat (2.1%), inappropriately restrained children in the rear seat (1.8%), and appropriately restrained children in the rear seat (1.1%). Examination of the incremental differences in risks of injury from one category to an adjacent category revealed that only the differences for unrestrained/front seat versus unrestrained/rear seat groups (P ≤ .001) and inappropriately restrained/rear seat versus appropriately restrained/rear seat groups were statistically significant (P = .001)."
The difference in risk from 2.1% to 1.1% is where the "backseat is 90% safer/front seat is 40% riskier" numbers come from.

The AAP concludes, "On the basis of these findings, educational campaigns, anticipatory guidance, and legislative interventions should continue to emphasize age-appropriate restraint but should add an additional focus on the promotion of rear row seating..." and I agree with them, but there are circumstances where babies do ride in the front and I don't feel that the characterization of this posing a very high chance of her being seriously injured or killed is fair.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

A rear-facing child in front of an airbag is at high risk of decapitation in a crash. While there are situations (few and far between, but they do exist) where I'd consider putting a rear-facing child in the front without an airbag or a forward-facing harnessed child in the front with or without airbag, a rear-facing child should NEVER NEVER NEVER be in front of an airbag.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

I think she got it.









It would be impossible for the most part to get your airbag deactivated anyway. First you would need to petition NHTSA and give good proof that your baby NEEDED to be in the front w/ you and then you would need to find someone to actually do it, which 99% of mechanics and dealers won't.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

If it's actually illegal to put a kid in the front seat - what are people with pickup trucks supposed to do?


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
If it's actually illegal to put a kid in the front seat - what are people with pickup trucks supposed to do?

most have seats in the back. if not, i think there is an exception for "no alternative". we have a truck that we use for hauling stuff and though its a PITA i can get the BV RF'ing in the back of that when necessary (a hand full of times when we have to do things between the 2 houses).


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## BedHead (Mar 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
If it's actually illegal to put a kid in the front seat - what are people with pickup trucks supposed to do?

And what about cars with no airbags? Is it only the airbags that make the front more dangerous?

My kids are long past the carseat stage, but eventually I will (hopefully!) have grandkids


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## sunshinestarr (Jan 5, 2006)

Where I live, this is very common and it drives me insane!!


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## Missinnyc (Aug 21, 2003)

My car's manual has easy instructions on how to turn off the airbags. Weird.

I still don't advocate kids in the front seat, though!


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
most have seats in the back. if not, i think there is an exception for "no alternative". we have a truck that we use for hauling stuff and though its a PITA i can get the BV RF'ing in the back of that when necessary (a hand full of times when we have to do things between the 2 houses).

Most of the new trucks have a bench in the back. But I am pretty sure that very few of those would fit a RFing carseat. In the 'nice' trucks - you can do it. But not the ones that my family in the country have. In those ones it's barely possible to fit your legs behind the front seats. I've ridden in them many times stretched out with my feet along the bench.

But I'm curious now. My FIL has a Miata. I know that he has a special key to turn off the passenger airbag (required here if there isn't a backseat). I was under the impression that once DD was older (and would enjoy it) it wouldn't be ridiculously unsafe for her to ride in the front seat. And with her size - she'll be in a harness/booster forever.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissinNYC* 
My car's manual has easy instructions on how to turn off the airbags. Weird.

I still don't advocate kids in the front seat, though!

It's probably instructions on how to turn it off, not truly disable it. Since it's law they have to have front airbags (unless your car is from before then), no one will turn them off for you.

Quote:

If it's actually illegal to put a kid in the front seat - what are people with pickup trucks supposed to do?
All states that require backseat use, always have exception clauses that include trucks w/ no front seats (my DH has one and takes one of the boys at least once a week), no shoulder belts in the back, backseats that don't face forward, or all the backseats are taken.

Quote:

And what about cars with no airbags? Is it only the airbags that make the front more dangerous?
I'll have to find the study, but it showed the backseat was up to 85% (iirc) safer for anyone!

Quote:

But I'm curious now. My FIL has a Miata. I know that he has a special key to turn off the passenger airbag (required here if there isn't a backseat). I was under the impression that once DD was older (and would enjoy it) it wouldn't be ridiculously unsafe for her to ride in the front seat. And with her size - she'll be in a harness/booster forever.
With a key to turn it off, she could use the seat now in a rfing seat. I wouldn't trust the censors like my van has for a rfing seat, but for a ffing seat I'm o.k. w/ that. Just push the seat all the way back and make sure the seat is used and installed correctly. The boys use their seats (harnessed) in DH's truck often, we let Evan ride ffing in the truck though.


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

http://www.buffalo.edu/news/fast-exe...ticle=80260009


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## hrsmom (Jul 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeckC* 
I'm glad you've decided not to put her in the front seat.

Maybe we can help you with the car situation though. There are some things that can make kids happier in the car. What kind of car seat is she in? Is it an infant seat? Quite a few kids are much happier once they get out of an infant seat and into a convertible.


Thank you for that suggestion! I've been considering moving her to a convertible seat anyway, since I don't detach the "bucket" from the stand anyway.

Is there a sticky or a thread somewhere with favorite convertible carseats?

By the way, she rode in it twice yesterday and she didn't even whimper, let alone cry at the top of her lungs!







:


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hannahsmama468* 
Thank you for that suggestion! I've been considering moving her to a convertible seat anyway, since I don't detach the "bucket" from the stand anyway.

Is there a sticky or a thread somewhere with favorite convertible carseats?

By the way, she rode in it twice yesterday and she didn't even whimper, let alone cry at the top of her lungs!







:

Infants generally do very well in the Evenflo Triumph Advance, and the new Safety 1st Avenue looks promising as well.


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## BeckC (Nov 27, 2006)

The EFTA is a great seat. The Avenue is a decent seat but it only harnesses to 40 lbs.

If it's in your budget, other good seats are the Britax Marathon/Boulevard (if your dd fits, not all kiddos her age fit well) and the First Years True Fit is a good seat that fits little and big kids well.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I agree that the Avenue is definitely a "beginner" seat -- almost all children will need another higher-weight harnessing seat after it. But I think it's a very good seat for the money (unfortunately, when you spend more, you usually get more) and worth looking at if budget is a consideration.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

I've read through the California law a couple times, and my understanding is that it's illegal to put a child under age 12 in the front seat if there's a back seat available. If there is no back seat, or the back seat is occupied by children younger/smaller than the child in question, a child may occupy the front seat.


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## Papooses (Dec 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BedHead* 
And what about cars with no airbags? Is it only the airbags that make the front more dangerous?

No, it's the simple fact that everyone is about 40-86% safer in the back. This is one reason we urge new mothers to ride in the back, too. Whenever I'm in the car with more people than just the driver, I always sit in the back. It's called "shotgun" because the front passenger seat is the death trap seat.

The "Crash Dynamics" & "Safety Basics" pages at my site (link in signature) explain in more detail.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kessed* 
Most of the new trucks have a bench in the back. But I am pretty sure that very few of those would fit a RFing carseat. In the 'nice' trucks - you can do it. But not the ones that my family in the country have. In those ones it's barely possible to fit your legs behind the front seats. I've ridden in them many times stretched out with my feet along the bench.

our truck isnt a "nice" truck..the back seat is very small but i can still get the BV in tehre....however, the passenger seat is all the way forward and if anyone is sitting there (G-d help them) they dont have any room. like i said, we havent done it often and rarely w/ anyone sitting in the front passenger seat b/c they are then not safe.

its not something i think is "ok" but has been necessary on a few occassions. w/ no one in the passenger seat, everyone is at least as safe as they can be in the truck.


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## Norabella (Mar 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Papooses* 
It's called "shotgun" because the front passenger seat is the death trap seat.









But, I've always heard that it is called "riding shotgun" b/c in the days of traveling by covered wagons, when there was the chance of dangerous encounters (w/ animals or bandits) the person who rode on the front seat w/ the driver carried the shotgun.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Norabella* 







But, I've always heard that it is called "riding shotgun" b/c in the days of traveling by covered wagons, when there was the chance of dangerous encounters (w/ animals or bandits) the person who rode on the front seat w/ the driver carried the shotgun.

Me too.

Babies hate the bucket. Glad to hear your little liked the convertible. I second the Britax suggestion. I love the marathon.


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## Papooses (Dec 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Norabella* 







But, I've always heard that it is called "riding shotgun" b/c in the days of traveling by covered wagons, when there was the chance of dangerous encounters (w/ animals or bandits) the person who rode on the front seat w/ the driver carried the shotgun.

Oh, yes, I was kind of being sarcastic -- I mean, I take the covered wagon connection somewhat for granted & tried to role with it in a different way







Maybe not as witty as I thought at the time


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## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

FWIW, changing meanings of things without explaining it (for instance, the poster could have said "that's why CPSTs call it shotgun, b/c etc etc") causes the rest of the person's words to be taken less seriously. If the person is changing meanings of things on this level, what are they changing on a different level. The person loses credibility.

OP, I'm glad the baby did better! I can't imagine driving with my arm behind me like you described. DS wanted it sometimes, but it diminished my ability to drive safely, which isn't acceptable. I've gotten my singing voice back after having DS, in order to soothe him when he was little and unhappy in the carseat.







But I rarely went with him alone. Waited to do shopping until hubby was home and so on. Then I would drive (once I was able to) and hubby would sit in back. DS was the best in that arrangement for some reason!


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## thepeach80 (Mar 16, 2004)

Wow, if you guys can lose credibility in someone that fast over some silly words, good grief. Tiffany happens to be a very well respected and very educated CPST and I even look to her myself for things related to carseats and child safety. Lighten up.


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## hrsmom (Jul 4, 2008)

Thanks, milkybean! I'm singing a lot, too! Good thing they tell you it's ok to sing to your baby even if you can't sing!!! My friend (who sings for the church "worship team") told me that when her daughter was about two, she said in the car, "mommy, no sing"- I'm waiting for that.

I did end up getting a convertible carseat today (ordered online) so we'll go for that option. Thanks again for the help! I don't know about that "shotgun" discussion, my first degree is in linguistics, but I also know that humor and things like that don't always carry across cyberspace very well!!! I do appreciate all the responses. I definitely need help in the "safety" area!


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## BeckC (Nov 27, 2006)

I hope the convertible helps. What kind did you get?


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I have removed some posts from this thread.

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Quote:

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## hrsmom (Jul 4, 2008)

I ordered the Britax Marathon, I've had it recommended more than once. Hoping she fits! Thanks again for the suggestions, I'm glad there are carseat-smart people to talk to!


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## kalamos23 (Apr 11, 2008)

.


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