# Birthing from Within vs. Bradley...



## metzbn (Mar 16, 2007)

Anyone familiar with the Birthing from Within philosophy? My husband and I used Bradley method (and our own personal strengths) to go through my daughter's birth, but it was 44 hours long and my husband was exhausted, so he suggested a doula this time around (due 1/27/08) and the only one i have been able to find is really into this Birthing from Within method and I don't know what to think about it, it seemed to me at the beginning that they are really comfortable with interventions like C-section that I think are often very unnecessary...

Any thoughts?


----------



## DoomaYula (Aug 22, 2006)

I have not taken Bradley. I've had two clients who used it during labor on their way to med-free hospital births, and my only concern was that it seemed to insist upon a "right way" to labor, kwim? I disagree with that.

I have taken Birthing From Within. BFW and I didn't "click." Here's my opinion: it is very conceptual. Tigers and artwork and footbaths are cool, but it didn't help me at all with the pain of a contraction.

My easiest labor was my most recent one, which was a waterbirth, and during my pregnancy I'd listened to a Hypnobabies cd frequently (although I didn't take the actual hypno class). I felt more relaxed during that labor than my other two.


----------



## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

I used to teach Bradley (I took it w/ my first) and I've read Birthing From Within. It doesn't appeal to me personally, just not my thing. I think with most of these classes, it's more about personality than anything.


----------



## kltroy (Sep 30, 2006)

My sister read the BFW book before having her son. She said that she found some of the techniques and exercises in it to be useful, but found the whole "therapy" aspect of it a bit goofy. "Open...flower of life!" just made her giggle. Makes me giggle too









Anyway, I think a doula is a great idea - I guess I would probably interview the one you're considering and ask her more about how she *implements* this technique. Ask her what sorts of things she usually suggests to her clients etc. If the things she says sound like they will be helpful to you, work with her. If it sounds like you're just not on the same page see if she knows of anyone else in the area whose philosophy is more similar to yours. Ultimately, whether you get an intervention etc is up to YOU, not your doula.


----------



## balancedmama (Feb 16, 2007)

I am a doula and also a BFW mentor. Just because BFW does focus on some of those 'conceptual' things does not mean it doesn't have a practical side. It is more a philosophy about birth. FWIW I don't think that 'comfortable' with interventions is the way to describe the philosophy at all. It might seem that way, but BFW mentors are trained to support the mom in coping with unexpected outcomes - that includes everything from longer labors like you describe to cesarean birth. It is about letting go of how we feel labor should look like - mamas might need to 'lose control' in labor.

A big gap for me in Bradley is that while Bradley educates women about natural birth, I have personally found many Bradley educated couples to feel like their birth was an absolute failure if they deviate from the 'plan' or lose control. I'm not saying that this is the case with all Bradley-educated mamas but with many. I'm absolutely sure it depends on the particular educator.

I feel that the BFW philosophy is very grounded in the midwifery model of care but also takes into account the fact that MOST people in this country birth in the hospital in the medical model. BFW wants to be inclusive and useful for everyone no matter what their birthing choices are. It is up to individual doulas as to what they personally feel that they can support in advance of a birth, but no one can know ahead of time what their birth will look like.

HTH.


----------



## Mamabeakley (Jul 9, 2004)

I really love BFW, but I think that it's probably more important to talk specifics with the doula you're considering about what you want and what she offers than to be of the same opinion about a childbirth prep methodology.


----------



## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

BFW seems to really help with the mental and personal side of things, whereas Bradley teaches you physiology, informed medical choices, and relaxation methods. BFW would be great to help you overcome fears and tap into your sorta primal birthing self, but does seem lacking in practical reality (on purpose, because in the author's experience she needed to let go of all that).

The messages sounding supportive of intervention are mostly to make it more widely accessible to those wanting or needing it. If intervention isn't your ideal then it by no means would suggest you take it.


----------



## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

BFW really helped me know myself and tap into my resources when crunch time came along.
I only glazed over BRadley so I can't say much about it except that it just did not appeal to our family because honestly, I really preferred a doula over my husband for a birth partner.


----------



## snugglebutter (Mar 19, 2003)

We took BFW classes during our first pregnancy and loved them. It was a huge advantage for me that one of the instructors was my midwife. I wasn't into the "birth art" etc..... but there were plenty of other parts I found useful.


----------



## RockStarMom (Sep 11, 2005)

I took Bradley classes in preparation for my own birth, and now I am in the process of becoming a Birthing From Within mentor.
Have you read the book? BFW embraces all birthing mothers, and that is why you may be confused about the comfort of interventions. Pam England herself had a cesarean birth, so there is an acceptance that sometimes, for some reason, interventions need to happen, and BFW seeks to help parents realize that we never know exactly how our births will go, and come to terms with this before the fact.
In my own experience, Bradley is more about an outward preparation for birth, with an emphasis on facts and information being given to the parents. BFW, on the other hand, is all about inward preparation. I have personally come to more highly value the latter type of preparation, but I completely agree with the PP who said that it really depends on a person's personality.
HTH.


----------



## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *balancedmama* 
A big gap for me in Bradley is that while Bradley educates women about natural birth, I have personally found many Bradley educated couples to feel like their birth was an absolute failure if they deviate from the 'plan' or lose control. I'm not saying that this is the case with all Bradley-educated mamas but with many. I'm absolutely sure it depends on the particular educator.

A couple of things about this (and FYI I no longer teach Bradley). First of all, the couples who are drawn to Bradley tend to be extremely committed to natural birth, even before they start class. Bradley is very openly a NATURAL birth class, and the women who sign up have that as their goal. No matter what class they took, there would likely be disappointment if the ended up with interventions they didn't want.

Secondly, as with any class there is a lot depending on the teacher. I actually talked about the whole "failure" aspect in my classes, that it sucks to get an epidural or cesarean if you didn't want one, but it doesn't mean they failed.

Thirdly, I think Bradley's high natural birth rate is owed in large part to the fact that they are so "hardcore." I imagine BFW would appeal to a less committed audience, and part of the curriculum is compassionate use of epidurals. Bradley doesn't do any of that-it's a natural birth class only. And honestly, to have a natural birth in a hospital these days, you have to be committed. If you're not, it's probably not going to happen (and there's a good chance it's not going to happen anyway when you get right down to it).


----------



## BirthIsAwesome (Nov 14, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SublimeBirthGirl* 
A couple of things about this (and FYI I no longer teach Bradley). First of all, the couples who are drawn to Bradley tend to be extremely committed to natural birth, even before they start class. Bradley is very openly a NATURAL birth class, and the women who sign up have that as their goal. No matter what class they took, there would likely be disappointment if the ended up with interventions they didn't want.

Secondly, as with any class there is a lot depending on the teacher. I actually talked about the whole "failure" aspect in my classes, that it sucks to get an epidural or cesarean if you didn't want one, but it doesn't mean they failed.

Thirdly, I think Bradley's high natural birth rate is owed in large part to the fact that they are so "hardcore." I imagine BFW would appeal to a less committed audience, and part of the curriculum is compassionate use of epidurals. Bradley doesn't do any of that-it's a natural birth class only. And honestly, to have a natural birth in a hospital these days, you have to be committed. If you're not, it's probably not going to happen (and there's a good chance it's not going to happen anyway when you get right down to it).









:


----------



## balancedmama (Feb 16, 2007)

Interesting. I would argue, however, that BFW also attracts familes who are very committed to natural birth. I am not currently mentoring classes, but when I did, I had about a 85-90% natural birth rate. It's not a contest though. I feel that my clients are just as committed to natural birth, but I certainly agree they are different kinds of people. And I personally did a lot of education around natural childbirth in the hospital, and selecting care providers carefully and working with the staff to achieve goals.


----------



## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

I wasn't trying to make anything into a contest or say one is better than the other. Just explaining the very specific goals of the Bradley Method.


----------



## balancedmama (Feb 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SublimeBirthGirl* 
I wasn't trying to make anything into a contest or say one is better than the other. Just explaining the very specific goals of the Bradley Method.

No worries! I didn't mean to imply that you were making it into a contest.


----------



## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

Okay


----------



## amitymama (Nov 17, 2006)

Interesting stuff. I hadn't realised that the Bradley method is a bit more 'practical' than BFW. I think I'd be more into Bradley. I'll keep this stored in my memory banks for the next DC!


----------



## dnr3301 (Jul 4, 2003)

I've taken both, and really liked them both. Bradley seemed very much more information driven, whereas BFW seemed more "inner"ly driven. Bradley was more "here's what they'll offer and the pros and cons" and BFW within was more getting to the nitty-gritty of what you wanted (not just a natural birth, but what does a natural birth mean to you, control? strength? calm?) and getting that, regardless of the circumstances and the environment. I took Bradley with my first, during doula training, and again with my second, and took BFW just a few weeks ago with my pregnant sister. My sister is having a homebirth, and I think all of the information in a Bradley class would have been overwhelming for her, and would have made her more afraid in a hospital transfer situation. She loved the BFW classes. And I'd say that they both attract people committed to natural births.


----------



## zenma (Mar 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SublimeBirthGirl* 
And honestly, to have a natural birth in a hospital these days, you have to be committed. If you're not, it's probably not going to happen (and there's a good chance it's not going to happen anyway when you get right down to it).

I agree that you have to be committed to have a natural birth in a hospital, but don't agree with the opinion in parentheses. Perhaps in certain hospitals, in certain circumstances it's true that it would be unlikely to avoid interventions, but hospitals do vary and aren't all intervention-happy out of hand.

I've never tried the Bradley method, but found my BFW class to be an excellent resource and preparation for my natural hospital birth. Now I'm re-reading the book to find what I need to prep for my upcoming hospital birth and to keep it a natural one as well.

With my first pregnancy I'd read several books and learned plenty about the practicalities. A class that reviewed all of that stuff again wouldn't have worked for me. BFW does target my need to let go and gives me a lot of ideas about how. Some of it is hokey, but there are so many ideas and concepts to choose from, it's easy to pick and choose. (And the one thing that my BFW teacher taught my class that dp mocks ALL the TIME was actually the thing that really got me through and kept me going.)


----------



## Ixcuina (Feb 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zenma* 
(And the one thing that my BFW teacher taught my class that dp mocks ALL the TIME was actually the thing that really got me through and kept me going.)

Ok...so you must tell us what that was! Coyote, by any chance


----------



## ebony_vbac (Jul 14, 2006)

i have no idea about bradley but i read bfw and loved the book especially cuz the author was a cs to vbac mom which is what i was planning on. i took a 4 hour bfw class and it wasnt helpfull at all. i learned how to withstand the pain of ice in my hand which has nothing to do with birth and i hung out with other couples one of which i tried to keep in touch with and that didnt happen, but i did love the book


----------



## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zenma* 
I agree that you have to be committed to have a natural birth in a hospital, but don't agree with the opinion in parentheses. Perhaps in certain hospitals, in certain circumstances it's true that it would be unlikely to avoid interventions, but hospitals do vary and aren't all intervention-happy out of hand.

I've never tried the Bradley method, but found my BFW class to be an excellent resource and preparation for my natural hospital birth. Now I'm re-reading the book to find what I need to prep for my upcoming hospital birth and to keep it a natural one as well.

With my first pregnancy I'd read several books and learned plenty about the practicalities. A class that reviewed all of that stuff again wouldn't have worked for me. BFW does target my need to let go and gives me a lot of ideas about how. Some of it is hokey, but there are so many ideas and concepts to choose from, it's easy to pick and choose. (And the one thing that my BFW teacher taught my class that dp mocks ALL the TIME was actually the thing that really got me through and kept me going.)

There is one hospital where I live where, if your labor is perfectly average, you can be almost completely uninterfered with if you're with the right midwife. There is no other hospital (literally) where this is true in my area. And if your labor goes off average (if it's "too long" or if you're a VBAC mom or having multiples no matter how uncomplicated) then your chances of being left alone disappear.

And, FWIW, I don't consider EFM, IVs, NPO policies at all natural. I don't consider AROM, induction, augmentation, or pushing on your back natural (when mom doesn't choose to push that way). These things you can't get away from in any hospitals here but the one, and only if you're extremely average even then. And it's next to impossible to get away from mother/baby separation even in that hospital (whether taking the baby to another room for testing, or across the room for the warming table and testing).


----------



## aguacates (Sep 17, 2003)

I did the BFW mentor training 3 years ago, but have never formally mentored classes. I kind of think that the BFW method works best for Pam England (who incidently I think is amazing). After watching her mentor the practiced upon couples, I feel like she almost practices as a birth-therapist. Therefore, it makes sense to me, that a BFW class would only be as good as the relationship between you and your mentor. I also kind of feel like mentoring BFW classes can seem gimmicky (ie tiger, coyote, birthart, footbaths, icewater) if you aren't getting the whole picture(whether due to a mentor you are not clicking with, or limited time, or whatever...). It is probably easier to organize these concrete exercises as mentors, than to communicate to each woman the ideas behind them. Does that make any sense?


----------



## zenma (Mar 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ixcuina* 
Ok...so you must tell us what that was! Coyote, by any chance









i don't know what coyote is - do tell! is it in the book? i skip around the book a lot, just digging out what i want.

when we were practicing pain coping strategies, at one point the instructor kept saying, "arrive now.... arrive now.... arrive now" for a few minutes and it seemed pretty goofy, but i did use the concept (not the actual words) throughout my labor.

sublimebirthgirl, that's awful about the hospital situation in your area. and i'm sure it's even worse in other places, where mothers might not even have the slim options you've outlined. in my area there are several hospitals where a natural birth (per your description) can be had.


----------



## jmmsunshine (Mar 9, 2007)

I have 2 children - DS born via c-s due to breech, DD born au-natural at a freestanding birth clinic. With DS I took the "hospital" class, with DD I simply read both books.

I decided not to take the Bradley class because, and I'm saying this with all love and respect for DH, there was no way i could see DH practicing with me and actually doing what the Bradley method suggested. I couldn't even get him to read the book. I knew that he did not think I could handle a natural birth, and that was a primary reason for my hiring a doula. I did appreciate a lot of what was in the book though, and found it helpful in re-confirming my thought that natural birth was possible and normal and if left alone, I could birth just fine.

I really liked the BFW book, but for (maybe) some different reasons than others. My c-s was devastating. The book prompted me to really think about the birth of my DS. It helped me to process that experience, and heal from it. It was work I really needed to do to 'clean the slate' so to speak before the birth of my DD. The ice cube exercise was the only thing I could get DH to do with me. And he literally 'did it with me' - he didn't "help" me through the exercise, he put the ice in his own hand.







But that experience did help me to focus on relaxing in the face of "pain."

The book also helped me form a new picture of what I wanted labor to be - what was my definition of success. It helped me to make the decision to switch midwifes at 34 weeks and to decide that I didn't want to have a hosptial birth. (But Bradley gave me more of the hard core education to understand that was a safe choice.) DH and friends would say I was "hell bent" on a vaginal birth, and that concerned them that I might ignore a potential problem if I thought it might threaten my "ideal" birth. BFW helped me to accept the idea that sometimes, birth does not go as planned - that there are legitimate reasons for some interventions and even c-s, and I needed to do that to really release all my fears (like in the Bradley book) so I could have the labor and birth I wanted.

My labor and birth with DD were not what I planned - I planned for contractions to start out infrequently, get closer together and stronger, to get to the birth center, to labor a while, for my water to break at the end, to birth in the tub, and to essentially catch the baby myself or to have DH catch and for us to spend those first moments in peace. Instead, my water broke first, then contractions started every 7 min and were very strong. I got to the birth center with contrx every 3 min, but 6 hours into my labor I was dilated to 2, stretchy to 3. I did birth DD's head in the water (8 hours later), but she got stuck and I was moved out of the tub to get her out. I didn't get to hold her immediately because she didn't breath for the first 5 minutes. But, in large part to BFW, I felt fabulous because sucess was not defined as a birth that went according to my plan.

God bless you in your birth!


----------



## DavinaT (Jun 28, 2005)

My Mam's neighbours daughter tried the Bradley (twins but no abnormalities or contraindications for a vaginal birth) but seemed to end up even more constricted from fear than she started out ( mainly fear of pain and injury tearing etc) and ended up with a c-section due to a protracted birth.


----------



## Maggirayne (Mar 6, 2007)

This was cool to find, was wondering about these two methods yesterday! Our library has both books. I should read them and decide and see if I can get DH to read the one I think would work for us. He was a great help, but the L&D nurse did a lot helping me by pushing on pressure points(?) on my hips with my first baby. (I'm not pg yet, just planning.)


----------



## lioralourie (Aug 22, 2004)

I have read both Bradley and BFW, they are both fine philosophies.

My newest love, though, is BIRTH AS WE KNOW IT, a dvd that did more for my frame of mind in one viewing than all the book learning in the world.

www.birthintobeing.com

there was a thread a while ago in Trading Post/Co-Ops where we all got a 40% discount on it...Fantastic bargain and GREAT movie. There's also an "Educational Version" with 2 shortened versions appropriate for introductions to natural birthing, inclusion in more general classes, etc.


----------



## LeslieintheKeys (Dec 4, 2007)

I didn't do much reading on the Bradley Method, but I did read Birthing From Within. I thought it was great - so different from many of the other books out there. What I wanted for my baby shower was an activity where my friends would each paint a "birth picture" for me so that I could take them with us to the birth center for our son's birth. The baby shower activity didn't happen, but I did take some artwork with us to the birth center. I found a small watercolor painting that I bought years and years ago of a woman sitting in the sky, with the sun beaming its warms colors through her abdomen. The other was a batik we bought in Thailand of a bare-chested woman dancing under an orange (full) moon. With the artwork, candles, music, and soft light - I was completely comfortable. Once I got into that bathtub, I was giddy. We didn't do any BFW classes, but I took what I wanted from the book and used it - which was - thinking of birth as a process whereby I could successfully manage the pain through beauty, art, positive affirmations, and visualizations. Birth does not have to be a scary event full of pain. Thank goodness I realized this early on in my pregnancy.


----------



## Demeter_shima (May 16, 2007)

While I have not given birth YET...we finished our Bradley class AND I have been working the "Birthing from Within" book at minimum all along. A lot of the book really resonated with me; presenting a very spiritual and intuitive "connect with yourself" sort of approach. I am Pagan and a big hippy with most things, so this perspective on childbirth (a more primal and tribal one) hit home for me.
To be honest regarding Bradley, I mostly wanted to take the class for my husband. I was reading 8 books on birth and labor and birth-related issues before we even got pregnant...so I wanted to make sure my husband had a sure-fire way to absorb some information that would otherwise be difficult to explaian..as he can't get through these "text books" like I have.
I love the Bradley method because it gives good information regarding procedure, how to avoid interventions you don't want and it spreads EDUCATION on these issues; what I feel is at the very core of our deficiencies in the US regarding a mother's options.

I am glad to have both approaches...and heck..anything that gives you more options to handle something that important and life-changing is worth a look.







:


----------



## vegmilkmama (Jun 6, 2007)

My husband and I took Bradley classes, and I'm so thankful we did. I feel like we knew so much more and were so much more prepared than any of our friends having babies. We knew all the signs of different phases of labor, when to go to the hospital and to not go too early, why certain interventions are not good, nutrition to avoid pre-eclampsia, etc. We ended up going to the hospital after my water broke during early pushing, pushing in the car, and having our baby 45 minutes after arriving! Ok, that was a little close and brings up a good point. My husband was completely overwhelmed as coach and my only support. We had a doula from a nearby city but she didn't make it until we were at the hospital. My DH was so worried about timing contractions and where we were with that, that I don't feel he helped me to relax as we had learned in class and he forgot all about the signs of labor. I agree that having a doula help (trained in Bradley would be great but not a requirement) would have been ideal. I think we need to be surrounded by other women during birth! I will also read up on hypno-birth for next time. I think having the info from Bradley and the relaxation techniques found elsewhere will be the best of both worlds. What it all comes down to, though, is practice. You can take all the classes in the world but if you don't practice the techniques they won't help you. Bradley provided us with lots of different types of relaxation but we should have practiced more than we did. It's hard to learn how to let your body go and you want it to come naturally to you during labor. That's what we'll be working on for next time!


----------



## mom2mializ (Nov 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jmmsunshine* 
I decided not to take the Bradley class because, and I'm saying this with all love and respect for DH, there was no way i could see DH practicing with me and actually doing what the Bradley method suggested. I couldn't even get him to read the book. I knew that he did not think I could handle a natural birth, and that was a primary reason for my hiring a doula.

This was my big reason for taking the bradley class with my dh! Granted, my husband knew that I wanted and could do a NCB, but he definately didn't understand the risks that many interventions could pose. He wouldn't have been able to be my advocate without the Bradley classes.

The classes also did have relaxation techniques - and I found these only mildly helpful. It was nice to have a varried arsenal of techniques to help me relax. I also found it helpful to practice a little so that I knew what I was aiming for, what total relaxation feels like. However, I don't honestly think that relaxing before a birth will in any way prepare you for what it is like to try to relax through a million contractions. We only practiced a very little bit, so that we knew how each of the techniques worked.

I haven't taken a BFW class, but did read the book, and found myself rolling my eyes throughout. I didn't feel even slightly enlightened or enriched after completing the book. (but I respect and appreciate that it worked for others - just like while lots of people love water births, where as you couldn't drag me into a birthing pool when I'm in labor). I gather that many people are saying that the biggest benefit of BFW is the opening of the mind, connecting with our inner strength etc. I personally found Ina May's Guide to be far better and inspirational for this purpose... But I just don't go for that "artsy fartsy" stuff.

I WOULD, however, expect BFW to be very helpful when dealing with the pain of a disappointing prior birth and expectations and fears for the next birth.


----------

