# The violence has to stop (18mo)



## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

When DS gets mad he gets violent...like, sometimes REALLY violent. He wants to hurt you. I know it's "age appropriate" or whatever but I cannot do this anymore.

We're talking hitting, pinching to the point of bruises, biting, scratching, grabbing and digging his nails in (I cut them and he always manages to get me anyway), kicking, etc... My arms are starting to look like I own a wild animal.

We've tried everything in our parenting arsenal. Yes, even spanking. Here's the breakdown:

- Remove myself from him: He follows me to continue to hurt me. AND I've had some horrible back pain this pregnancy (I'm seeing a chiro when I can afford it) and sometimes it gets so bad that I have trouble walking. So, if I'm in that kind of pain I can't exactly jump up and walk off...

- Time-out: He screams, gives a hug when his time is up (we're talking 60 seconds), and then repeats the action when he's mad 5 mins later. So, not working.

- Distract: This child is not easily distracted. If he's really mad there isn't much you can do to change his focus. I mean, I can hand him a cellphone or something...but he'll inevitably do something on it that requires me to take it again and start it all over.

- Giving him words: I try to do this ("I know you're mad" etc) but he's not verbal yet so it doesn't do much.

- Health considerations: It can't be teeth each time. It's too constant lately. He does have dairy issues and we avoid it 90% of the time...but again, too consistent to be just diet.

I miss the screaming.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

Short on time right now, but my ds2 was/is like this. I am having him evaluated for early onset bipolar disorder.


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

Oh mama. Hugs. Lots and LOTS of HUGS. And commiseration. I dont have any answers. One day at a time is all i got. But usually, when one of mine gets through a stage, the other one starts. No reprieve and it STINKS!

All I can really say is from what I can see, your doing everything RIGHT. Its a process.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Barbie64g* 
Oh mama. Hugs. Lots and LOTS of HUGS. And commiseration. I dont have any answers. One day at a time is all i got. But usually, when one of mine gets through a stage, the other one starts. No reprieve and it STINKS!

All I can really say is from what I can see, your doing everything RIGHT. Its a process.

Yeah. Once a week he has a REALLY GOOD DAY and is loving and cuddly and cooperative. Sadly, I spent that day nesting and cleaning all day long.

I'm really trying not to spank him...we did it a few times and it felt like I was spanking him all.day.long. So, now it only happens when I'm too frustrated to react differently (more often than I'd like but not so much I feel like the worst parent ever)

The thing I have zero tolerance for is biting. I'm not sure why that's my breaking point but it is. Maybe because my younger brother was a biter... I dunno.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AFWife* 
I'm really trying not to spank him...we did it a few times and it felt like I was spanking him all.day.long. So, now it only happens when I'm too frustrated to react differently (more often than I'd like but not so much I feel like the worst parent ever)

I was never a big spanker, it happened maybe only every few months, but always out of my own frustration over not knowing what else to do. Would you like to know what it took for me to stop spanking once and for all?

I just looked my violent little boy in the eye and explained to him that hitting is never ok, not even for mommies. I promised him that I would never hit him again. And I haven't.

Whether or not your LO has BPD or is just in a wee bit of a "bratty" phase, hitting will only model angry, violent behavior to him. Please try with all your might never to hit your baby again. (((hugs)))


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AFWife* 
Yeah. Once a week he has a REALLY GOOD DAY and is loving and cuddly and cooperative. Sadly, I spent that day nesting and cleaning all day long.

Ahhhh, yes. But if hes impossible and needs your undivided attention the other 6 days a week, when are you supposed to get the cleaning done?


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

s from Jan ddc! My son's about 5 mos younger than yours, and we've been dealing with 'no kicky mama' for months now. I also have spd, and it's just painful. His tantrums have been increasing in frequency and severity as he's gotten older, and my patience has gotten thinner.

Have you tried exhausting him? Up and down the stairs? A walk in the morning, or even drive to the park and let him run around there? I'm in texas as well, and the whether is just now getting good; but there are some days where I cannot walk from couch to kitchen! We also practice gentle touch, and I let him beat his heart out on his stuffed animals.

I can't wait until DD is born, and he'll have a new target for his toddler angst.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *texmati* 
Have you tried exhausting him? Up and down the stairs? A walk in the morning, or even drive to the park and let him run around there? I'm in texas as well, and the whether is just now getting good; but there are some days where I cannot walk from couch to kitchen! We also practice gentle touch, and I let him beat his heart out on his stuffed animals.

Yeah, when he's exhausted it's actually worse...he HATES to nap so he gets overtired.
I actually can't take him on walks lately because of this behavior. He doesn't listen and when I try to pick him up (to keep him from running in the road or something) he gets violent. We usually stay in the apartment complex but 500 yards is a long way for a pregnant mama to walk holding a 27lb toddler that is grabbing and pulling on her hair.


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## oaktreemama (Oct 12, 2010)

One thing that does stand out to me is if you don't think his hitting you is appropriate, then your hitting him certainly isn't either.

I think it is very hard to explain to children that it isn't ok to hit Mama, but it is ok for her to hit you.

While there may be something else going on with your son (I am certainly no expert), I can promise you that hitting him for hitting you will only make the situation worse.

How can we expect our children to learn to deal with anger and frustration without physically acting out if we can't?


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessedwithboys* 
I was never a big spanker, it happened maybe only every few months, but always out of my own frustration over not knowing what else to do. Would you like to know what it took for me to stop spanking once and for all?

I just looked my violent little boy in the eye and explained to him that hitting is never ok, not even for mommies. I promised him that I would never hit him again. And I haven't.

Whether or not your LO has BPD or is just in a wee bit of a "bratty" phase, hitting will only model angry, violent behavior to him. Please try with all your might never to hit your baby again. (((hugs)))


Quote:


Originally Posted by *oaktreemama* 
One thing that does stand out to me is if you don't think his hitting you is appropriate, then your hitting him certainly isn't either.

I think it is very hard to explain to children that it isn't ok to hit Mama, but it is ok for her to hit you.

While there may be something else going on with your son (I am certainly no expert), I can promise you that hitting him for hitting you will only make the situation worse.

How can we expect our children to learn to deal with anger and frustration without physically acting out if we can't?


This might come out snarky because I'm having a really rough day and I don't mean it to...

I almost didnt' mention that I'd ever spanked because I don't want the entire thread to turn into "you shouldn't do that!!!!!!"

I know you guys are only trying to help. I just really need advice and ideas...not a lot of "well THAT was a bad decision" comments.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AFWife* 
Yeah, when he's exhausted it's actually worse...he HATES to nap so he gets overtired.
I actually can't take him on walks lately because of this behavior. He doesn't listen and when I try to pick him up (to keep him from running in the road or something) he gets violent. We usually stay in the apartment complex but 500 yards is a long way for a pregnant mama to walk holding a 27lb toddler that is grabbing and pulling on her hair.


do you have anyone who can exhaust him for you? My parents will take him for 2-3 hours in the evening, and he's asleep in the car on the way back home. Maybe even a library/tumbling class. You need a break mama!


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *texmati* 
do you have anyone who can exhaust him for you? My parents will take him for 2-3 hours in the evening, and he's asleep in the car on the way back home. Maybe even a library/tumbling class. You need a break mama!

Not at all. We can't afford classes or a sitter or anything. Family is 1.5 hours at the CLOSEST (and that's not even the family he's super comfortable with...they're 4 hours away) DH works all day...he's home at 5pm at the earliest (unless it's a Tues or Thurs and then he's home after 8pm because he has class)

Pregnancy is def contributing. When I'm not in pain I'm exhausted. The slightest amount of heat causes me to feel overheated and sick. And DH and I are going through some emotional marital stuff right now (we're both in therapy) so when it feels like my little boy HATES me I can't function.


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## just__angel (Sep 2, 2010)

I 2nd the suggestion to have him evaluaded. BiPolar is a possiblitity, but so could adhd. Could also be that he'sjustextremelyboreed and needs TONS of physical exercise and going places.
It "seems" from your post that youre not 100% consistant in method of discipline. Cant try it for a few days and then switch to something else.

If you chose to use time out, Id put him in a playpen for 2 minutes, and sit and read near him. (not allowing yourself to be engaged by him for that time)
Time out instantly for all negative behaviors with you simply saying, "no hitting. Hitting hurts."

Another suggestion I have came from an adoption/attachment parenting site and worked VERY well w/my adhd boy. http://www.processes.org/processholdings.php

Not sure how feasable it'd be with your mamabelly but..you basicly just hold the child to you as firmly as you can, pining flailing arms and legs
(think of curling him in to a ball with your body wrapped around him) and tucking his head so he cant bite. You hold him until he melts against you. You follow up with lots of kisses and loving words.

The theory behind this is that an out of control child is a scared child and one who is *unable* to get control of themselves.
By you holding them, you help them gain control in a loving and safeway.

Taking walks safely can be done with a sling end tied to his beltloop or a safety harness. He definately sounds like he needs to be worn out and have a change of scenery. (I know cabin fever makes me crabby!)


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

How do you tell the difference between a bored/normal toddler and one with an emotional issue (or whatever you call ADHD and BPD)?

How do I know the difference between my hormonal/emotional mess of a brain overreacting and a problem?

We don't have a ped...we haven't been able to find one we like.


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## oaktreemama (Oct 12, 2010)

Yes I was not trying to pile on. To be honest I only mentioned it at all because in your post it seems like you are still spanking him sometimes and I tihnk in order to see improvement from his end there must be some from yours.

Do you have a playpen or crib for him? If he is that violent and out of control I would put him in the playpen. I am not normally a timeout person but if he is so out of control that he is leaving bruises on you something has to give.

To me, it is more important right now to keep him from hurting you then to try to validate feelings ya know? Pregnant, exhausted and in pain does not seem like a good base to work on a huge dynamics shift. So hugs to you.

I also think a huge increase in exercise of some kind for him could help.

I am assuming from your name you are an Air force wife? Can you possibly reach out to your local MWR liason for some assistance? There may be a play group you don't know about or a local Moms group that meets at a playground.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't have a good suggestion, but I wanted to let you know that my 8-year-old had very violent tantrums at that age, where she'd bite me, try to scratch my face, and even go for my eyes like she was going to gouge them out. She did outgrow it and is a very peaceful 8-year-old now, and she doesn't have any special needs, so I wouldn't assume that is the problem. She has always been high needs and intense, and she's still emotionally intense, though it shows up more as a mood rollercoaster now instead of as violence. It's much easier to work with.

What helps with her moods the most is to make sure she has plenty of protein, and particularly that her breakfast is protein-based. I don't know how much solids your ds gets at this point, but it might be worth a try if he's having many to increase the proteins and particularly in the morning to see if it helps.

Just wanted to give some hugs!







It isn't easy and I can't imagine dealing with it while pregnant. I just muddled through each tantrum, one at a time, until she got past them. Which took a while, though her tantrums weren't as bad even at 2 as they were at 18 months.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oaktreemama* 
Yes I was not trying to pile on. To be honest I only mentioned it at all because in your post it seems like you are still spanking him sometimes and I tihnk in order to see improvement from his end there must be some from yours.

Do you have a playpen or crib for him? If he is that violent and out of control I would put him in the playpen. I am not normally a timeout person but if he is so out of control that he is leaving bruises on you something has to give.

To me, it is more important right now to keep him from hurting you then to try to validate feelings ya know? Pregnant, exhausted and in pain does not seem like a good base to work on a huge dynamics shift. So hugs to you.

I also think a huge increase in exercise of some kind for him could help.

I am assuming from your name you are an Air force wife? Can you possibly reach out to your local MWR liason for some assistance? There may be a play group you don't know about or a local Moms group that meets at a playground.


We tried putting him in a pack-n-play for time-outs. We did it a few months ago for a week or so...he stands and screams and then gets out and the behavior doesn't change. Like, if he wanted a book on the mantle and I told him "no" he would *insert behavior*, go in time-out for a min, come out, point at the book, get told "no" and lather/rinse/repeat.

Exercise *might* help but, again, I can only do so much and it's only me during the day.

We don't GO anywhere because we only have one car. We tried getting up with DH so we could take him to work and have the car all day...but DS hates it when DH leaves so a lot of times that turns into an hour or so of damage control on my end. Same reason DH stopped coming home for lunch or whatever. Sometimes DS does okay (if I can manage to distract him with videos of himself or something) but sometimes not.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I don't have a good suggestion, but I wanted to let you know that my 8-year-old had very violent tantrums at that age, where she'd bite me, try to scratch my face, and even go for my eyes like she was going to gouge them out. She did outgrow it and is a very peaceful 8-year-old now, and she doesn't have any special needs, so I wouldn't assume that is the problem. She has always been high needs and intense, and she's still emotionally intense, though it shows up more as a mood rollercoaster now instead of as violence. It's much easier to work with.

What helps with her moods the most is to make sure she has plenty of protein, and particularly that her breakfast is protein-based. I don't know how much solids your ds gets at this point, but it might be worth a try if he's having many to increase the proteins and particularly in the morning to see if it helps.

Just wanted to give some hugs!







It isn't easy and I can't imagine dealing with it while pregnant. I just muddled through each tantrum, one at a time, until she got past them. Which took a while, though her tantrums weren't as bad even at 2 as they were at 18 months.

This is a bit comforting









We try to eat in the morning and periodically throughout the day. However, he's still in that stage where he's famished one day and then just wants milk the next (raw milk...it doesn't affect his dairy issue...weird I know)


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Just as an addendum: At this very minute he's playing quietly by himself with his dump truck. Doesn't want/need my attention or anything. He's totally fine.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I think this is completely age appropriate behavior. My ds was exactly this way at 18 months and he outgrew it completely. I have known MANY 18 month olds who behaved this way. At 18 months this is very normal stuff to do to mommy. Also, you sound stressed. You sound isolated. He is feeling that. He is reflecting it back to you. I know because I was there too!

You need boundaries.

Do not spank him. Decide you will stop, and stop. If you can't stop, how can you expect him to stop?

Keep removing yourself from him each and every single time he does it. Every time, get up and walk away. Go in your room and close the door. Stay there until you both calm down. Do not argue. Do not yell. Do not engage back. Once you are both calm, go out and tell him "No biting" and move on to something else. Repeat as often as necessary. I consider this harsh at this age but you are in crisis and hitting him is far worse and far less effective. You need a way to enforce a boundary. Removing yourself will give needed space.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AFWife* 
How do you tell the difference between a bored/normal toddler and one with an emotional issue (or whatever you call ADHD and BPD)?

How do I know the difference between my hormonal/emotional mess of a brain overreacting and a problem?

We don't have a ped...we haven't been able to find one we like.

With normal problem behavior it goes away with maturity. With mental health issues behavior often gets worse and you have tantrums and outbursts when they are no longer age appropriate. Tantrums can be really normal up through age 3. Have you tried holding his little hands gently and saying I don't let people hurt me.

When my DD is reacting to stress things like painting and playing in water help her be a calmer person. At that age I put DD in a high chair with finger paints. Time outs often just make things worse with toddlers. They don't have the cognitive skills to understand a time out meaning anything. Time ins work well, holding a child for awhile or sitting with them, but wouldn't work if he's being violent.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AFWife* 
Yeah, when he's exhausted it's actually worse...he HATES to nap so he gets overtired.
I actually can't take him on walks lately because of this behavior. He doesn't listen and when I try to pick him up (to keep him from running in the road or something) he gets violent. We usually stay in the apartment complex but 500 yards is a long way for a pregnant mama to walk holding a 27lb toddler that is grabbing and pulling on her hair.

I just posted a thread myself, so I might not be a big help....but here goes.

When I take my little guy on a walk, IF he walks he's also pushing his "teddy bear" stroller (a little doll stroller that a friend gave him, he LOVES it) and has a "leash" on. That way, there is no bolting b/c the stroller keeps him TOTALLY occupied, and the leash provides me with a little bit of a security blanket. (don't flame the leash anyone, it works for us!)

If thats not an option, can you put him in a stroller, walk to an enclosed space (I'm in NYC so all the playgrounds have fences around them to keep the kids in b/c of traffic issues), and THEN let him run? That way you don't have to keep up too much, b/c its enclosed, but he can run as much as he wants, and won't get hit by a car.

Also, I did the pack n play technique with biting, and it took LOTS of consistency. The key I think, was putting him in, and truly waiting until he calmed down and got interested in something else. I would put some cloth books in with him (cloth b/c they don't hurt if they get thrown), and wait till he got interested, or at least stopped freaking out. There were days when it felt like he spent the whole day in there - but really it was just being SUPER consistent with it.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I agree with the pac'n play alternative to my recommendation to mommy leaving the room. I want to clarify that time out in this situation is not discipline. It is a survival tactic. You need to stay safe and calm. He is not safe if you are not calm. You are not safe if he is biting and you are hurt. Time out is to keep order and calm. Not to punish. Not to teach a lesson, which he is too young to learn.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
I agree with the pac'n play alternative to my recommendation to mommy leaving the room. I want to clarify that time out in this situation is not discipline. It is a survival tactic. You need to stay safe and calm. He is not safe if you are not calm. You are not safe if he is biting and you are hurt. Time out is to keep order and calm. Not to punish. Not to teach a lesson, which he is too young to learn.

I realize that alot of people on MDC don't believe in time outs, but I definitely used it as a discipline method. My ds learned that when he bit me, he didn't get to be physically near me. If I tried anything else, it didn't work b/c he could still bite me, and telling him no just makes him laugh and repeat the behavior.

I'm not having any luck with the hitting/kicking and pulling my hair - so if anyone has any ideas on that, please go over to my thread and post some ideas for me to use.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

When I was a young single mom with a home daycare, my own daughter was a biter.... Not just an ordinary biter. A biter on steriods. At 18 months, she was biting 8-12 times a day.

Out of desperation, I called my favorite family and child author on the phone.. and this was WAY before internet, so I had to track him down using phone books.

He told me to set up a full size playpen (they don't make those anymore) in the corner of the daycare area, put some special time out toys in there, and every single time she bites, or even looks like she's going to bite, I should "Toss her tush in there without a single word". No attention for the behavior, nothing, just put her in in playpen.

I did that. I felt bad at first, but within three days, the biting stopped completely. She was telling me she wanted in her playpen instead. She'd sit in there, turn her back to all of us, and chill out a while with her toys. Or, she'd stick her pacifier in her mouth, and just stare out the window. She never really was able to handle a full day of being around people nonstop, so she eventually graduated to chilling out in her bedroom. But, for that stage, the playpen was perfect.

**************************
You can also firmly grasp his shoulders and bend over (the best you can bend over anyway) and say firmly "NO BITE!" or "NO KICK!". Don't babble a bunch of words because if he's already mad, he's not listening to reason. Just short and quick.

If you have to fight him off, Remove him to another area instead. Don't worry about the timer, put him in there and leave him there until he's ready to come out. He may want to stay for a long time if he has something interesting to do.

If you try the confinement idea, and it doesn't work after a few days, stop doing it... it's not always going to work for every child. I just got lucky that my own child just needed her own space to chill out when she got frustrated. It's not everybody's answer.


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## quantumleap (Apr 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AFWife* 
We don't GO anywhere because we only have one car. We tried getting up with DH so we could take him to work and have the car all day...but DS hates it when DH leaves so a lot of times that turns into an hour or so of damage control on my end. Same reason DH stopped coming home for lunch or whatever. Sometimes DS does okay (if I can manage to distract him with videos of himself or something) but sometimes not.

You need to get your hands on a copy of Mary Sheedy Kurcinka's "Raising Your Spirited Child". Your DS definitely sounds like he has trouble with transitions, which is one of the hallmarks of "spirited" children. But, even if he isn't spirited, it's a great read and is filled with lots of coping skills for parents, including evaluation what *your* needs and prefered methods of functioning and then superimposing that onto what your child needs. I think you'd get more out of it if your child was a bit older, just in terms of the questionaires included. My dd is 21 months, and I found a lot of the questions I just could not answer about her (she's too lacking in verbal skills, not in school, etc), but it was super, super helpful.

Also, would a stroller work? I also have ridiculous SPD (and POP, and varicosities, I'm a mess!) and am due in December. We pretty much have a stroller because it's also our bike trailer, and I pretty much never used it until the SPD started getting intense again. It's been a lifesaver though. Your child is contained, and the movement/sights are usually enough to keep the kid entertained for a few minutes, especially if you periodically throw snacks/toys at them. Bonus is, you can lean on the stroller and sort of hobble along. I'm sure I look a sight, but it works. I often bring an ice pack along and then sit on it as discreetely as possible when I get to wherever. Is there anything within walking distance of you? Mall playground, YMCA, military resource center, community center, playground, baseball field, etc, etc? Baseball fields are remarkably wonderful - fenced, typically deserted in the middle of the day, etc - and you can just bring along a few balls. You throw the ball, child chases the ball and sometimes brings it back (yes, this sounds a bit like playing fetch with a dog!), there's no one else around to think you're nuts for sitting on an ice pack (I don't know if that even helps you, but it does me, a bit), and more importantly, there's no other small people for your kid to beat up on, so you can just sit there and make sure he doesn't scale the fence and run in to traffic! My kiddo likes to make grass whistles, bring me rocks, bang sticks on the ground, draw in the sand...

It's so hard to see solutions and an end when you're in the middle of things. Hang in there. Your son doesn't hate you, I can guarantee it! You're just a safe person he can vent to, unfortunately at his age that includes physical violence for some kids (mine included!).


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Between being tired and frustrated, I would think quiet time would help decrease excess stimulation. Not saying he should nap, or you should try to make him nap, but I think turning down the lights, making the home quiet, playing soft, soothing, relaxing music (maybe river sounds) and sitting quietly near him for a good half hour to one hour would be good. If you have a book to read, even better, and if you doze off, even better.

As far as his pinching/biting/hitting, I would grasp his hands to prevent damage to you, not to hurt him in any way, and say, "Hurting me (Mommy) is not a good choice. It's okay that you're (instead of saying you, you can say his name, to help him identify his feelings & action's with himself) angry, but you need to do (insert tactic here) when you're angry, not hurt others." Even if he's not verbal doesn't mean he doesn't understand what you tell him. Enough repetition will help this sink in.


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## BetsyNY (Jul 1, 2005)

Your child is still a baby--going through a frustrating phase, no doubt, but a baby. He sounds like he's a handful. A bipolar diagnosis sounds, to me, wildly inappropriate. His behavior sounds within the realm of developmentally normal. It's way, way too early, IMO, for a psychiatric dx.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 
A bipolar diagnosis sounds, to me, wildly inappropriate. His behavior sounds within the realm of developmentally normal. It's way, way too early, IMO, for a psychiatric dx.


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## FatAphrodite (Oct 16, 2010)

I would like to second the use of a playpen for aggressive behaviors. I had a biter....I HATE being bitten. It makes me feel very violent. Pain in general is not good for my mood, but biting makes me crazy. So yes, put him in a playpen or in a safe, baby-gated area. Keep this area with a few safe toys. When he bites or hits, or whatever, put him in this area. You do not have to speak, but if you want you can _briefly_ state something like "you may not hurt me." Then walk away. I would not use a timer. This is not a time out. This is you enforcing your right to not be injured and giving your child a safe space while you regroup. Bring him out when you both are calm. In fact, he doesn't need to be *calm*, just *not violent*. (If it takes more than 2-3 minutes for him to calm down-at least to a reasonable level-something else is going on. This is not a punishment. If he is not calm shortly he may need a snack or diaper etc. You mentioned a dairy issue-food sensitivities caused my (now) sweet and loving dd to act like a demon child from hell. There may be more than dairy at work. Obviously, don't neglect your baby!) My personal experience with this method is a drastic reduction in violence within a day or two even with my dd with food sensitivity. Again, I don't believe in using punishment and i don't view this as such. I see it as giving your child and yourself a safe space to vent big feelings without the opportunity to cause injury.
During calm times practice gentle touch. I honestly would focus on this issue for at least a few days and let everything else go. This is obviously causing you tons of stress, and probably for baby too.
Also, as soon as possible, find an outlet of some kind for yourself. Is there anyone that your husband can carpool with so you have a vehicle, even one or two days a week? Is there a neighbor or friend that will kid swap with you, you know-take your child for a few hours on one day in exchange for you taking theirs a few hours on another day? Can you afford to hire a "mother's helper" for a few hours a week? That way you wouldn't be leaving him with someone, you would be there but they entertain the kiddo for a time allowing you to do some work or relax.
I just realized how long this post is, so I'm going to stop here. Please let us know how it goes. Take care of yourself mama!


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## colsxjack (Dec 9, 2009)

My nephew was like this A LOT.
My sister was a spanker though and really into punishing. It didn't really help.
BUT. For the biting, kicking, violent behaviour...turned out he was sensitive to red dyes. They would make him very hyper and super intense. He was an emotional roller coaster and would have mood swings. Getting rid of/cutting down on red dyes wasn't a miraculous cure, but it did lessen the intensity of his emotional outbursts.
Red dye is in a lot of things. And usually listed on the ingredients with a number. You can also find lists on-line of things to look for on ingredients lists.


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## 3xMama (Oct 14, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyNY* 
Your child is still a baby--going through a frustrating phase, no doubt, but a baby. He sounds like he's a handful. A bipolar diagnosis sounds, to me, wildly inappropriate. His behavior sounds within the realm of developmentally normal. It's way, way too early, IMO, for a psychiatric dx.

Agreed. Completely. This is a totally normal phase for kids to go through at his age.

I'd work on getting rest time in. If he's not into naps, try reading to him or put on a short movie if you aren't screen free and let him veg out to it. But do it before the biting, hitting behavior begins. Nip it in the bud, so to speak. I'd also look into buying a few toys that are distraction toys only and cycling through them. Instead of giving him your cell phone that he can damage, give him something he can hang onto. Pick up five toys at the store and keep them in a cupboard he can't get into. When tantrum starts, get one toy and let him play with it until he get bored with it and moves on. Next tantrum, next toy in line and so on. When he's done with the toy or after he's in bed, confiscate them and return to special cupboard.

And one more thing: My cousin had horrible tantrums as a child. Through probably age five. She'd kick, bite, scream, yell and beat her head on the floor so hard and so long she'd have huge bruises. She is a completely normal and healthy 25 year old woman now.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

I haven't read most of the responses, I just wanted to say that my oldest son was like that. I think he's just *really* physical (he pummelled the heck out of me before he was born, it was actually pretty painful) and at that age he didn't yet have the ability to self control. I could tell you all the things we tried, but I honestly think it was largely a developmental thing and that once he had the capability to self regulate he started to do so.

He's turning four next month and is much, much better. He still tends to want to hit when he's angry, but is able to take space to calm down (well, often we enforce a time-out sort of thing and when he's ready to be safe he can come back out).

But I do remember having scratches, bruises, etc, all the time. He gave me a black eye when he was 9 months old


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Two more comments:

1. I did hit my son occasionally when he was going through that stage, and I was pregnant, and self defense mechanisms just took over. Mama dogs will nip their young if they get too rough. It certainly didn't help my son's behavior, and I didn't *want* to respond that way, and as a human my higher functioning should have been able to kick in and give ME self control, but it didn't. So no judgement here!

I did (frequently) put myself in something like a time out and walked away from my son after saying something like "You may not hurt me". This was for my safety (I deserve to not be physically assaulted, even by a toddler!) and for his (he needed me to be in control, and when I would be in sharp pain I was *not* in control). I like the playpen idea much better, actually.

2. I would run, screaming, from any health care provider that would even think about diagnosing something like BPD or ADHD in an 18month old. It's wildly inappropriate. (I work in then mental health field)


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## sh0rtchica (Jun 15, 2009)

just want to add







s and commiseration.

While my 19-month-old is very similar, at least he doesn't bite, and NORMALLY after timeout he's forgotten what he wanted in the first place.

It can get really frustrating at night, though. He was hitting and scratching me all night (I think his nighttime diaper had too much ammonia, so my fault







), and I was just too tired to get out of bed and fix it. And if I don't give him BOTH boobs at one he also gets angry. It's almost impossible to do anything then, so I have to raise my voice, which wakes up DH, and then we're all awake and unhappy. And then of course DH has to start yelling... ugh.

I'm really praying it's a phase due in part to being non-verbal. I'm looking into sign language classes. One mom on another forum told me she claps her hands, loudly, when her kids start throwing tantrums. I don't know if that will help but it's worth a try! Hang in there.


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## namaste_mom (Oct 21, 2005)

One technique that we use for biting...we tell the children that it is inappropriate but that they can lick instead. Yes, it is kind of gross but it works for us and usually results in giggles because I can lick back.


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## Minxie (Apr 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *just__angel* 
Another suggestion I have came from an adoption/attachment parenting site and worked VERY well w/my adhd boy. http://www.processes.org/processholdings.php

Not sure how feasable it'd be with your mamabelly but..*you basicly just hold the child to you as firmly as you can, pining flailing arms and legs
(think of curling him in to a ball with your body wrapped around him) and tucking his head so he cant bite. You hold him until he melts against you.* You follow up with lots of kisses and loving words.

The theory behind this is that an out of control child is a scared child and one who is *unable* to get control of themselves.
By you holding them, you help them gain control in a loving and safeway.

Taking walks safely can be done with a sling end tied to his beltloop or a safety harness. He definately sounds like he needs to be worn out and have a change of scenery. (I know cabin fever makes me crabby!)

This works well with my son also, especially when he's overtired. I use a slightly larger blanket and roll him in it; we call it a burrito wrap though his head and feet are not tucked. Then I sit him on my lap and rock while I sing.

I still use this with my son at age 4.5 when he is overwhelmed or overtired. I make sure to give him lots and lots of love and kisses while doing this; he's not "in trouble". He's just out of control and needs help but can't verbalize it (now that he's older, he can of course.)

This also helps me to be at peace as it reminds me that he isn't in control of himself 100% and it helps me to be more patient with him.

ETA: When rolling him in the blanket, sometimes we giggle and giggle. It changes the tenor of the situation entirely. We still have our snuggle time after giggling. Also I will roll him backwards and forwards sometimes JUST to GET him giggling.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *namaste_mom* 
One technique that we use for biting...we tell the children that it is inappropriate but that they can lick instead. Yes, it is kind of gross but it works for us and usually results in giggles because I can lick back.

you could always switch noisy kisses for bites as well.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *namaste_mom* 
One technique that we use for biting...we tell the children that it is inappropriate but that they can lick instead. Yes, it is kind of gross but it works for us and usually results in giggles because I can lick back.









or buy them their own natural, non-toxic, chew toy from the pet store.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
I agree with the pac'n play alternative to my recommendation to mommy leaving the room. I want to clarify that time out in this situation is not discipline. It is a survival tactic. You need to stay safe and calm. He is not safe if you are not calm. You are not safe if he is biting and you are hurt. Time out is to keep order and calm. Not to punish. Not to teach a lesson, which he is too young to learn.











This is essentially what we did when my kids hit. Yes, it was a time out. But since being hit really triggered something in me, I had to separate my kids from me for us all to be safe. When our kids hit, they were levitated (dh's word) to their crib. Not a word. Just taken up there and plopped in until mom/dad could breathe again.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AFWife* 
We tried putting him in a pack-n-play for time-outs. We did it a few months ago for a week or so...he stands and screams and then gets out and the behavior doesn't change. Like, if he wanted a book on the mantle and I told him "no" he would *insert behavior*, go in time-out for a min, come out, point at the book, get told "no" and lather/rinse/repeat.

If you have a highly persistent child, you might have to do it 30 times for him to 'get it'. You might have to keep this up for several weeks. He's 19 months old. Learning takes time. Lots of time. Lots and lots of time.

Do you remember when he was learning to walk? How many tries do you think it took him before he learned to walk 20 steps without falling? How long did he do the 'Frankenstein' walk because he was in danger of falling over at any moment? Skills take time to learn. Self-control is a _huge_ skill. One that most adults have trouble with. Self-control when your own emotions are out of control (my definition of a toddler!) is really really hard.

I would do the pack-n-play thing calmly, without yelling, screaming or hitting (hard, I know) each time he hits _for a month_ before you declare that it doesn't help. Really. For a month.

As for exercise: Do you own a decent stroller? Can you walk to a park where he can run? Or a mall? Have you tried a leash with him?

Persistent kids with a high need to for physical activity are hard on a mom, especially when she's pregnant. So, cut yourself some slack, and do the best you can.


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## RoViMama (Nov 10, 2009)

I agree with all the suggestions but also look at what he is eating. My DD is gluten and dye sensitive. I tell people if they feed her wheat they can keep her until it wears off.

Another thought is making sure you are saying "yes" more than you are saying "no". If he can't have the book on the mantle, what can he have. Is it possible for DH to pack up the house with all the "no-nos" for now so that you don't have to say No so much?

Also vote for the PnP. Set him in it (as gently as possible), say no hit and sit and a read a book near by. When he starts to get out, gently put him back in and sit back down. Keep doing it. It will take awhile but he needs to know you will be consistent.

He may be sensitive to sensory things going on around him. Does he like to be wrapped up? Does he hear every sound? Does he like hugs and to be cuddled? Look into sensory activities for him on line.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 

Do you remember when he was learning to walk? How many tries do you think it took him before he learned to walk 20 steps without falling? How long did he do the 'Frankenstein' walk because he was in danger of falling over at any moment? Skills take time to learn. Self-control is a _huge_ skill. One that most adults have trouble with. Self-control when your own emotions are out of control (my definition of a toddler!) is really really hard.

As for exercise: Do you own a decent stroller? Can you walk to a park where he can run? Or a mall? Have you tried a leash with him?









When my son learned to walk it was like this:
- Stand and slowly sit down 3-4 times one week
- Stand and step one foot out a few times the next week
- Refuse to try AT ALL for a few weeks
- Stand and walk across the room to daddy

His physical skills came oddly like that...he would practice a couple of times, refuse to try for a little while, and then have it down.

Exercise: Our stroller sucks! It's a cheap umbrella kind. There's nowhere in walking distance for us to go. DH isn't fond of the leash idea (I want to try)


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AFWife* 

Exercise: Our stroller sucks! It's a cheap umbrella kind. There's nowhere in walking distance for us to go. *DH isn't fond of the leash idea* (I want to try)

Who cares??? Your DH is not the one staying home with him all day. Buy a new stroller (my Maclaren Volo is the sturdiest, most awesome stroller EVER and it only weighs 8lbs!), figure a way to get outside.

I totally understand wanting to be on the same page with your dh, but somethings got to give. Get a leash, tell him you're going to try it for 2 weeks, and if ds still hates it in 2 weeks (using it regularly - it takes time to get used to for both of you) stop using it. But you need to make a change!


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## Nightswimming (May 11, 2009)

Someone might have already mentioned it but since you said that he hates to nap, have you considered that he might be exhausted and is acting this way because he is so tired and wound up? Maybe you can try to focus on his sleep for a week? I know you cannot make him sleep but perhaps encourage him to sleep as best as you can (try to borrow "Sleepless in America" (a book on sleep issues) from the library- it has a lot of suggestions for encouraging sleep.

Just a thought...


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AFWife* 







When my son learned to walk it was like this:
- Stand and slowly sit down 3-4 times one week
- Stand and step one foot out a few times the next week
- Refuse to try AT ALL for a few weeks
- Stand and walk across the room to daddy

OK, my suspicion is that his learning self-control might be like that too. I think that it's really really important to realize that the 'violence' is a loss of control, rather than targeted at you. There's a large part of developmental readiness in this. You can teach the skills so that when he's developmentally ready, he can take advantage of them, but you really can't speed up his emotional/intellectual maturity all that fast!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AFWife* 
DH isn't fond of the leash idea (I want to try)

I would point out to dh that he isn't stuck at home with a high energy toddler. And he's not pregnant. How about getting one of those little backpacks with a leash on it. It might make your dh feel more comfortable. They work. They keep your child safe. I bet if he had to choose between biking/walking to work or a leash, he'd choose the leash.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

another vote for the mclaren volo. I also have a thought that is probaby not helpful.

I think DS can sense that I'm pregnant, tired, exhausted, and don't have time for him. Over the past few months, I've seen him go from being fond of us equally, to becoming a total daddy's boy. I talked to our ped, and she said it was very normal to transfer attachment when a new baby comes.

I don't know what to do about it, i know that your dh has to work. But if your DS is sensing that distance from you, it needs to be addressed some how.


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## 3xMama (Oct 14, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thyra* 
Who cares??? Your DH is not the one staying home with him all day. Buy a new stroller (my Maclaren Volo is the sturdiest, most awesome stroller EVER and it only weighs 8lbs!), figure a way to get outside.

I totally understand wanting to be on the same page with your dh, but somethings got to give. Get a leash, tell him you're going to try it for 2 weeks, and if ds still hates it in 2 weeks (using it regularly - it takes time to get used to for both of you) stop using it. But you need to make a change!


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## Mrs.Music (Jun 15, 2010)

I was SO glad to see this thread. M has just gotten to that stage. And so they fighting between my children has begun. And he's taking out his frustrations on me too. It's driving me crazy. And I'm worried that he wont outgrow it before the new baby gets here. I didn't do this with my daughter! She was so well spoken we could just talk everything out.


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## sweetkid (Feb 5, 2008)

I am sorry you are going through this.
I have to say though that to look at life (from your brief replies online) from your sons perspesctive,it doesn't sound like he (or you) has any fun at all! I too was pregnant with a toddler last year and it is very hard but not half as hard as having the 2 kids on your own! You have got to take care of yourself and keep your sons happiness and development in mind. I found great relief for pregnancy antipathy in liquid iron supplements and essential fatty acids. Getting a good routine going is vitally important as is remembering that your son is living with a Mom and ad that are going through ahrd times and he has no one to talk to and very few outlets for his growth. staying home with a Mom that has had it up to here is just not healthy.I say get the car ,he won't scream once you arrive at a fun location to play. Childrens libraries are fun and free. There is no where that does not have a free toddler playgroup somewhere close by.
Somedays you have to pretend you are happy and have energy,its crazy but will make your son feel more childlike and help reduce his stress level if you just laugh play listen to music and GET OUT OF THE APARTMENT!!!!
Yeah and promise not to spank anymore,both to him and yourself.


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

I know you said earlier in the thread that money is an issue (re. babysitters etc). Don't forget to check craigslist to see if a decent stroller comes up for a good price. Or get the word out to other families that you're looking for a hand-me-down or loan.

I absolutely agree with pps that you should try out the leash. Get the cute animal backpack kind. I think this is an issue where your needs (getting out of the house, sanity, ds needing exercise etc) trump dh's dislike of the leash.

I also wanted to suggest more hmmm... I don't know what to call them... hands-on??? activities for your ds. I mean things like playdough, middle-of-the-day baths (water play), playing with a tub of beans and some measuring cups, finger painting, etc. I found with my kids at that age activities like that helped keep them calm and occupied. If I sensed the mood going down-hill then I'd set them up doing something like that and it would make a world of difference.


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## berry987 (Apr 23, 2008)

I haven't read all the replies because I'm short on time, but something really stood out to me. I have a 20 month old and when he is overtired he is a huge mess - a monster child. He bites, screams, hits, refuses to be held, kicks the dog...completely intolerable to be around. Luckily he loves to nap and sleeps through the night, so when he is well-rested he is sweet, loving, giggly. But if he doesn't get his nap he is just like how you described your son.

Have you read Sleepless in America?? I know it seems overly simplistic, but a child that doesn't want to nap often needs it the most. The book offers solutions on how to get a kid to sleep who fights it. At 18 months he NEEDS a nap every day. Basically the book says make sure your child is really, really well rested and THEN assess his behavior. You might find yourself with a whole different kid.

I agree that this age often goes through biting/hitting phases (I also have a 6 and 4 year old who did the same thing and outgrew it), but the level of his aggression seems higher than normal.

Good luck!


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## mom2grrls (Jul 24, 2008)

Have you read Sleepless in America?? I know it seems overly simplistic, but a child that doesn't want to nap often needs it the most. The book offers solutions on how to get a kid to sleep who fights it. At 18 months he NEEDS a nap every day. Basically the book says make sure your child is really, really well rested and THEN assess his behavior. You might find yourself with a whole different kid. >>>>>>

I third this suggestion. Also making sure YOU are getting enough rest too even though i'm sure it's hard. Since you said he wasn't really verbal perhaps you may want to teach him some signs to communicate more clearly b/c that can be quite frustrating for a toddler and cause them to act out.


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## Tjej (Jan 22, 2009)

My advice:

Use a pack n' play to calm down - both of you. He doesn't get out until he's calm and you're calm. Repeat as necessary.

Get a leash - my DH hates them too but I got one for when I needed it for my sanity. We didn't use it much but it made it possible for me to go out and do things that I just would not have done without it. And you never have to use it when your DH is around - so he doesn't have to use it or anything!

Sleep begets sleep. And sleep makes for a much easier time controlling emotions.

That raw milk might still be affecting him. My DS is a monster when he gets foods that don't agree with him. He doesn't necessarily complain, he just acts like a wild man and has a few extra bumps on his face.

Tjej


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I have to chime in with Lynn re: the pack N Play and being persistent and consistent. Saying he doesn't "get it" and does whatever it is a minute after he comes out means he goes back in that minute later, and again 15 more times if he has to in the next 15 minutes. I remember when my very strong willed, persistent daughter was in a biting/hitting phase, I had to plop her down and walk away 9 times in a row one morning before she stopped (for a few hours, then something else ticked her off and started again, so we had to dal with it again). They key is, IMO, to not be cold/heartless when you do it, but also not engage in an argument with him. I never used physical separation with my DS, and never used them for DD for anything but the biting/hitting phase because she was just relentless and persistent and it was the only thing that kept me sane, and both me and DS safe. Prepare yourself for having to do things over and over and over, like, a LOT. Get to a Zen place about it, and that's how you keep from losing it. If you accept you're going to have to do this with him 100 times before it really starts to sink in, then you won't be angry the 5th time, you know?

Also, your life is very stressful and isolating, as others said. I agree with others that your DH doesn't really get a say on the leash thing if he's not able to help in some other way. You either need a better stroller or a leash. Period. If you have to sell something else to ge the money for it, so be it. If you have to look on freecycle, do it; hell, if I still had the backpack leash I used with DD (another thing I never needed with DS, but did with DD becasue of her personality) I'd mail it to you, but I gave it to someone else.

I totally get being exhausted and pregnant with an energetic toddler (DS while not violent as a toddler was VERY energetic). You need to do something to prevent both of you from going stir crazy. You need to get out of the house.

Also, I'll suggest finding a swing gate for his room door (or another room you can toddlerproof), get it set up safely, and even if he doesn't nap, start gently but firmly enforcing a quiet time every day. He'll be unhappy and protest for a while, but eventually he'll get it. My DD is very, very strong willed so it takes her much longer, and it is much louder in her protests for her to accept things she doesn't like than it does my other child, but she *does* eventually accept them. It's not my job to keep her happy all the time, it's my job to help her grow up into a functioning human being. It's tough around the 18-month old stage to go from "want-need" to "you aren't always going to be happy". It can be LOUD, and UGLY sometimes. And with a persistent kid, it can take longer...but you just have to keep the firm, gentle boundaries and do them 300 times if necessary....it will eventually sink in.


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## MovnMama (Jul 3, 2009)

I personally have to second the "holding" in favor of the playpen. I was actually shocked to even read that huge article on it, since we just kind of did it out of frustration/ analysis/ instinct. Also, (duh from what I've already written) it's a phase and you can get through it! Also true about needing more sleep and all that, but you are preggo and we need to prioritize.

First of all, he's out of control. He's telling you so by the behaviors. He *needs* to be controlled because he is incapable of doing it himself. Both the playpen and the holding are strategies that put you in control of a child that is out of control and cannot control himself.

Here's why I prefer the holding and why I think I just naturally did it: you make the connection that you are in control. This is a huge boundary setter. And out of control kids *want* and *need* boundaries. From you, the in control adult. Sure, the "melting" sounds really sweet, but that not what I'm getting at.

It's good for your connection, sure, but also, there is a dynamic there that's hard to explain, because it's not a _power_ dynamic so much as a _parent_ dynamic. I'm not controlling you because I want to be in charge; I'm controlling you because it's my job to 1. control you until you control yourself and 2. teach you what controlling yourself looks like.

It also models appropriate expectations. As in, I expect you to not flail around before I put you down. (If we put DS in a playpen during an "episode" he would flail and kick and generally just be as angry as he was when he was biting/kicking/punching/scratching, so I really felt like nothing was being resolved there. He wasn't learning anything except you get locked up when you misbehave. What does that prepare him for down the road, I asked myself?) And eventually, well before age 2, he figured out how to rock the playpen on it's side, which ruined the "time out-ness" of it altogether.

PS. Totally there with you on the spanking. I know you will hear it - don't do it. Stop. Yes, but also, I know why you do it and you need a better option that you know will work. I also spanked out of frustration, and only felt worse about myself and - here's what really got me to stop - it didn't really work to stop the behavior. So what's the point? Good for you to look for better solutions.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Just a different POV that holding both of my kids makes them way, WAY worse and more angry than leaving them to flail things out on their own and then come to me when they're calm. If I try to restrain or "fix" things/work through with them, it makes it so much worse and last about twice as long as if I make sure they're in a safe space and let them get the uglies out themselves, *then* talk about it. In the moment, their brains are just so overwhelmed and for both of them being restrained is like the worst thing ever, so it makes things fire on even more overload than whatver overload they already had. They got SOOOOOOO angry being restrained, that they never 'melted into me'. They would eventually would stop resisting but look catatonic and be PISSED at me for restraining them like that, and refuse to talk at all. So, we stopped doing that with both of them. I just wish we would have stopped sooner, would have realized we were actually making things worse. They need to get their negative emotions out in a safe, contained but not *restrained* place, without someone 'helping' them through it. If I leave them be (I'm close by, but not actively engaging with them until they are ready...NOT ignoring them, just waiting for them to be ready while doing some kind of busywork to keep myself occupied) they work things out in 5-10 minutes and then we can talk because they're really, actually calm of their own will and we move forward in the day; if I try to parent them through situations where they're out of control (beyond getting them to a safe space), it makes it so much worse and they don't gain control for a long, long time and then are totally on a hair trigger the rest of the day because they keep thinking about being restrained and how much they hate it. This was really clear to me by the time they were both 2 or so, but I kept on stupidly doing it with them for another year or two on and off to see if it would "work" yet or not. I finally gave up holding/restraining them about a year and a half ago when DD was 3 and DS was 5. I hate to say it, but I almost felt shame when I was doing it, since they clearly were so upset by it...and upset in a different way than other times they were tantruming about things...it was like, I was disrespecting them in the worst way to them by not allowing them to be in control of their bodies. And this is from a woman who did, and still will haul a kid out of a store physically, or force them into a car seat - this was different, we were so close, and I wasn't transporting them anywhere to safety or anything, it just felt really wrong with both of them.

So, anyway - holding works great for some kids, so give it a try....but if it makes things worse, know that that's also OK.


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## MovnMama (Jul 3, 2009)

Just wanted to jump in again and second the above. Some kids will respond to holding and some kids just DON'T. The worst you can do is try something and see if it works. For DS, if we let him alone in a safe but confined space like a playpen, the behavior never stopped... he would come out "swinging" as they say. But the holding really worked well for us, because he needed us to be "right there" physically enforcing the boundaries that we needed to enforce for him because he couldn't himself. That's just him


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I really wish that would have worked with my kids, because my instinct is to collect them in to me when they're out of control and upset and comfort them. It's hard to fight that instinct!


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
my instinct is to collect them in to me when they're out of control and upset and comfort them. It's hard to fight that instinct!


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