# Cries 'till she pukes...what can I do????



## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

14 month old DD. She is in bed with us at night but sleeps alone in there until we come to bed. I nurse her to sleep for every sleep time - all naps and every night. She also nurses many times throughout the night. She is a really crap sleeper and we have lots of stress over the whole situation. Anyhow, here is the crux of my problem in trying to help her learn to fall asleep without a boob in her mouth. She frequently goes into an insta-cry that takes mere seconds to get to the point where she is puking. Sometimes she just gags but many times she pukes multiple times, all over the place. I feel like I am being manipulated at this point although I know that's probably not possible, developmentally. Let's take tonight for example. She started nursing at 7:15. She nursed for maybe 40 minutes. She popped off and on a few times, just rolling around on the bed and whatnot. She finally fell asleep nursing but woke when I put her down, even though I was right there for her to nurse while lying down if she wanted. We go back and forth with nursing and singing and almost sleeping and blah blah blah. I finally pretend I'm asleep and she is kind of crying and fussing but nothing too bad. This used to work and she would eventually just lay down and sleep but it hasn't worked for weeks now. She finally started into a real cry so I sat up and asked her if she wanted to nurse. Instead of just laying down or climbing on me to nurse she goes into the insta-puke-cry and within seconds proceeds to puke 5 times all over our f-ing bedroom. So I have to turn the lights on, change pillow cases, wash carpets, wash her with a cloth and change her jammies. What is this about??? How am I EVER going to help her learn to fall asleep without nursing if she pukes every damn time. It's ridiculous and I am SOOOOO sick of it. Not to mention I don't want my baby puking all the time for her own sake! I feel like a hostage to her. I better get a boob in that mouth within 2 seconds or she's gonna puke. This cannot be normal. What the hell am I supposed to do?


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## boadhagh (Sep 19, 2007)

My dd will only sleep being held or being next to someone and only falls asleep nursing; she's been like this for 20 months. I think some babies are just this way and will grow out of it eventually, but I find the vomiting thing pretty concerning -- maybe some mamas with allergy and/or reflux knowledge will have some good advice for you.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Maybe you should let her choose when it's time to start falling asleep without nursing? Obviously trying to wean her from nursing to sleep is causing stress for both of you. Instead of waiting until she's crying to offer nursing, offer it when she wakes again.


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## rhiandmoi (Apr 28, 2006)

I'd ask her ped about reflux. Especially since she seemed fine and then she was instantly puking.


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

She is intollerant to dairy and I have been on an ED and TED in the past. We currently consume no dairy. Just pointing this out to say I am very well aware of the allergy/sleep connection (and do still wonder if I'm missing something since she wakes so frequently). I REALLY don't think she has any reflux but at this point I am willing to consider anything (she was an angelic sleeper for the first 4 months until the first teething started). She has a Dr. appt next week so I can bring it up then. The thing is, I'm not even really trying to wean her from falling asleep while nursing. This is fine, I enjoy it. Sometimes my nipples just can't take it anymore, yk? Also, when she wakes during the night I do just automatically nurse her. This cry/puke only ever happens during the initial going to bed time and only when it has been a bit drawn out. It's heaven when she just nurses right to sleep but she so often wants to play around a bit and pop on and off and crawl around and whatnot.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Could it be that crying with a full stomach is making her sick? I know a couple of people who have an issue like that one.


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Could it be that crying with a full stomach is making her sick? I know a couple of people who have an issue like that one.

Perhaps. But seeing as though her stomach is always full at bedtime I don't know how this will ever change. I really need to sleep before she's 3! It's nights like tonight that I wish I would have given her a binky. Too late now! She thinks they're chew toys.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

If she's not sitting up by the point she starts crying, you could try that.

My only other suggestion is having a bucket close by and hope your a good catch.


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
If she's not sitting up by the point she starts crying, you could try that.

My only other suggestion is having a bucket close by and hope your a good catch.

Yeah, no sh*t. Who knew my softball skills would come in handy in a situation like this. I do happen to be a "good catch". Tonight was the first night I actually thought, "well, screw it. I guess I just have to buy a puke bucket for her". I cannot deal with changing the sheets, washing the carpet, cleaning the girl, changing my clothes, etc. this often. It is insane! Thanks for your responses. I'm off to bed but hope to find some more when I wake up tomorrow.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

We'll keep brainstorming. Hopefully something will help.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

I'd get it checked by a doctor first, and rule out the possibility that she's crying because she feels sick, rather than sick because she's crying. I'd also raise the head of the bed, and I'll keep thinking in the meantime.

ETA: apple pie beds. Make your bed fully, put a waterproof mattress cover and a fitted sheet over the top, and another layer if you need it. It'll speed up the middle of the night changes. I'd also have a second set of blankets or quilt ready to go.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Silly question here, could the real crying with tears and all be triggering post nasal dripping and that's causing her to gag and vomit? Don't know what you'd do about it if so, unfortunately.


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Yes, she has some seasonal allergies and the crying could trigger post-nasal drip but I don't suspect that is the issue. I also really don't suspect it is a medical issue. If you could see the whole progression you'd probably agree. Fine, fine, fine...then you can just watch her "turn it on" and go into the bad cry that leads to puking in seconds. I mean, she cries plenty of other times when she's upset, hurt and whatever else and this NEVER happens then. If she's crying really hard due to an injury or something she will sometimes end up at the gagging stage but never puking. It really is like she reserves this for special times and knows when to whip it out.

ETA: the "feeling sick" thing only makes me think that she is SO overfull by the time this scenario occurs that it is definately contributing. But...not much I can do in that regard since she just wants to nurse and nurse. Last night was HELL and she was up like every 20 minutes but this morning her second molar has poked it's way through in one spot. Yeah for small steps...


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## wdube (Jul 19, 2005)

I think I'd try having her stay up later ... until she's ready to fall asleep. This is also the age where little ones are working on their molars, and need the support of their mamas.

I feel for you and hope your situation inproves soon.


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## MommyJoia (Oct 31, 2007)

have her 12 month molars come in yet? she could be teething the most painful teeth that come in. She may just want her mommy and you may just have to stick it out until she feels better. This is only a phase and once her molars have cut completely she may go back to her regular sleep habits.

You may want to wear her in a sling instead of trying to sneak out of bed, away from her. She's in an awful amount of pain and just wants to be close to mommy.

Now is not the time to try to night wean. You may say, "but I'm not trying to night wean"... but you said you want to try to teach her to fall asleep without the breast, which is essentially night weaning.

Keep giving her love and patience and know that this will not last forever. these years go by very fast and before you know it you'll have a potty learned, completely weaned, little person sleeping in her "big girl bed" and you'll be wondering what happened to that little baby that couldn't sleep without the breast.

don't let her cry until she pukes.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaMary* 
Yes, she has some seasonal allergies and the crying could trigger post-nasal drip but I don't suspect that is the issue. I also really don't suspect it is a medical issue. If you could see the whole progression you'd probably agree. Fine, fine, fine...then you can just watch her "turn it on" and go into the bad cry that leads to puking in seconds. I mean, she cries plenty of other times when she's upset, hurt and whatever else and this NEVER happens then. If she's crying really hard due to an injury or something she will sometimes end up at the gagging stage but never puking. It really is like she reserves this for special times and knows when to whip it out.

ETA: the "feeling sick" thing only makes me think that she is SO overfull by the time this scenario occurs that it is definately contributing. But...not much I can do in that regard since she just wants to nurse and nurse. Last night was HELL and she was up like every 20 minutes but this morning her second molar has poked it's way through in one spot. Yeah for small steps...

What's different between when she cries hard and doesn't puke in seconds and when she does?


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## lactivist (Jun 14, 2005)

Just a thought but could you put her to sleep in a different way? Maybe rocking or slinging her to sleep to avoid this nightly struggle?

I have heard of emotional puking before. It could be that this time of night is just really difficult for her and the drop off to initial sleep could be really scary for her. I have some sleep issues and I used to be very fearful around sleep time. She could just be so white knuckling it that any disturbance instantly illicits an emotional response (hence the puking then and not at other times). I could be totally wrong!

My 3yo ds was a really terrible sleeper. He never slept longer than a 40 minute stretch until he was 20 months old and I took him to my naturopath. She put him on melatonin and it has been a life saver for our family. He has a lot of issues and sleep was just the most challenging for us.

This same child struggled immensely with teeth coming in. They would take a long time and he would be in misery for months while it was going on. Cranial Sacral Therapy has helped his teeth come in quicker and easier and has helped a lot of his issues. Any time he had any teething symptoms his sleep got so much worse.

I really hope you find something that works and you can get past this challenge quickly.









Wendi


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyJoia* 
have her 12 month molars come in yet? she could be teething the most painful teeth that come in. She may just want her mommy and you may just have to stick it out until she feels better. This is only a phase and once her molars have cut completely she may go back to her regular sleep habits.

You may want to wear her in a sling instead of trying to sneak out of bed, away from her. She's in an awful amount of pain and just wants to be close to mommy.

Now is not the time to try to night wean. You may say, "but I'm not trying to night wean"... but you said you want to try to teach her to fall asleep without the breast, which is essentially night weaning.

Keep giving her love and patience and know that this will not last forever. these years go by very fast and before you know it you'll have a potty learned, completely weaned, little person sleeping in her "big girl bed" and you'll be wondering what happened to that little baby that couldn't sleep without the breast.

don't let her cry until she pukes.









She's been teething with molars for 3.5 months. The second just popped through a little bit last night. She won't sleep in a sling (or car or stroller - ever). She'll sleep in the Ergo for a while if I'm on a serious walk/hike but that ain't happenin' inside the house. Perhaps you misinterpreted my posts. I don't "let" her cry until she pukes. It happens so fast I have no time to respond. Also, I want to restate that, in fact, I have zero intention of night weaning. Just because I think it should be POSSIBLE for a 14 month old to fall asleep without a boob in her mouth on occasion doesn't mean I am trying to night wean her. And...she has fallen asleep without nursing plenty of times before so I know she is capable of doing it. It's like she just decided she's not going to anymore and has gone to the puking thing. Is teething contributing? Absolutely. In fact, I hope that's the main issue and not something else. However, when she's been basically teething non-stop for the past 10 months somethings gotta give, yk?


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
What's different between when she cries hard and doesn't puke in seconds and when she does?

I think my best answer to this question, although it's hard to know without charting each night because I'm so tired I forget EVERYTHING, is....
when she doesn't fall asleep fast enough at night. She is basically overtired all the time because she has been sleeping poorly at night for so long and her naps are now getting wonky too. Sometimes one, sometimes two, varrying lengths, when she used to do 2 reliable 90 minute naps every day. She is absolutely exhausted by bedtime and we do our whole routine and then start nursing by just after 7pm. Sometimes she's asleep by 7:10 and on the horrible nights she's asleep by 9. So I guess the things that are different between a hard cry w/o puking and the insta-puke cry are...
1. insta-puke only happens at bedtime, usually when she has kind of missed the time she should have fallen asleep. Not due to any fault of my own (well, I suppose that's up for debate







) though, like we waited too long for bed or something. Often she'll nurse until almost asleep and then pop up and want to play and even if I don't let her it's like she missed that window for easy sleep.
2. i-p generally only happens when she has a very full stomach, although I'm sure she's cried hard after getting hurt or upset while having a full stomach and this doesn't happen.
That's all I can think of at the moment.


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## MommyJoia (Oct 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaMary* 
She's been teething with molars for 3.5 months. The second just popped through a little bit last night. She won't sleep in a sling (or car or stroller - ever). She'll sleep in the Ergo for a while if I'm on a serious walk/hike but that ain't happenin' inside the house. Perhaps you misinterpreted my posts. I don't "let" her cry until she pukes. It happens so fast I have no time to respond. Also, I want to restate that, in fact, I have zero intention of night weaning. Just because I think it should be POSSIBLE for a 14 month old to fall asleep without a boob in her mouth on occasion doesn't mean I am trying to night wean her. And...she has fallen asleep without nursing plenty of times before so I know she is capable of doing it. It's like she just decided she's not going to anymore and has gone to the puking thing. Is teething contributing? Absolutely. In fact, I hope that's the main issue and not something else. However, when she's been basically teething non-stop for the past 10 months somethings gotta give, yk?

Yeah, I know








I really do know. My DD#1 cried all the time, I mean _all the time_ and didn't sleep on her own until I was too pregnant with DD#2 to hold her in my lap. It's hard, I know, but it really won't last forever. I promise you, it won't last forever.


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## puddle (Aug 30, 2007)

If the molars are causing this, are you giving her anything to help with teething pain? Hyland's teething tablets have really helped my daughter sleep. I've ordered an amber necklace to see if that helps too.

Maybe she is nursing constantly when she goes to bed because she knows that will keep you from sneaking off? I gave up on ever trying to get my 15 month old to sleep without me. She goes to bed around midnight after Daddy is asleep.

I hope you find something soon that works for your family--this is such a tough age for sleep!


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## georgiegirl1974 (Sep 20, 2006)

My DD had a puking problem too. (sounds the same as your DD with puking and gagging when crying/upset but only in certain situations). I tried to nightwean her at 18 months, and it just didn't work. I basically just sucked it up and dealt with a crappy sleeper until now (she's 2.5 this week.) I just didn't let her get in situations where she's gag/puke. It has been 6 weeks since she last puked from crying, and I think she's "forgotten" how to do it. I started nightweaning her last weekend, and although she's cried for 10+ minutes at a time (in my arms), there's no puking.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

*


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## Cujobunny (Aug 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Just1More* 

And....here's an unpopular one. He is beside himself when he's getting teeth. And, he, too, seems to take FOREVER about getting one. He only has 6! And number seven has been coming for about 6 weeks now. When he's really gnawing his fist and is unhappy...I give him tylenol. The teething tablets don't touch it. And he'll SLEEP. I think about how hard it is for me to sleep when I have a horrible headache, and I figure it's similar. I don't do it often and it's SO hard for me to give it to him...DD has NEVER in her 3.5yo life had ANY. And he hadn't until he was past a year. But...it really, really, really helps him.


I agree - my 13 mo dd has been working on molars for about.... 2 months. 2 of them are just starting to poke through and the other two are not far behind. I have given her tylenol a couple times. Just once a night, when she's really having a rough go and the homeopathic stuff is not working, nor is nursing, rocking, walking, singing, lying down with her etc etc. It's sadistic not to, really. But that one dose really helps. In your situation, that's what I would do, after it's apparent that nothing else is working. I don't think that Tylenol is evil or poison.


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

DD has an amber teething necklace and various homeopathics. Those are fine for day but the necklace comes off at night and the homeopathics have NO impact on her night sleep. She has gotten tylenol a few times but she has been teething for 10 months straight basically, like I mentioned earlier, so obviously that is not a long term solution. Here's the problem...when she is going to sleep she is not crying due to pain (this puke cry I am talking about). If that were the case I may dose her up a little more often. However, when she starts waking up so much at night and I think that tylenol might be a good idea she refuses to take it and it just makes things worse. So basically my options are no tylenol or pre-emptive tylenol which I am not willing to do. And....in the past when she has had it it really hasn't made that much of a difference to her sleep. I always wonder if she has a really high tolerance for it and needs a higher dose (which I don't want to do) because I have this same thing...I need extra novacaine at the dentist to numb me up, I need higher doses of meds to work the way they should. I don't know why this is.
Also, another topic that has come up is about DH trying to help with things. The problem with this is that he is a sports broadcaster (among other things) and is frequently gone in the evenings. This winter is going to be better than last but there are still many nights he won't be here and I fear having him start trying anything that can't be 100% consistant. Maybe we should try it anyway, I don't know.
I also noticed today that TWO new molars had poked through last night, not just one, so three have poked through in the last few days.


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

I hope getting the molars helps. I have been dealing with crap sleep for months now (DD is 12 mos) and while she only has 2 teeth, I swear I felt a molar peeking through this morning. Argh. I find Motrin helps a lot more with teething pain, and I have no issues using it when I think she needs it (like tonight). DD does not puke like that, but I have a friend who's DD did and it seemed to be intentional. Not manipulative, but in some way intentional because she only did it at certain times when she was really mad. It totally worked to stop the situation and get everyone focused on her, which she clearly needed at that time.

Other than trying to keep her on top of a waterproof pad and keeping a bucket/towels on the bed next to you, I don't know...

Just wanted you to know I'm sorry you're in that situation. I know how demoralizing sleep deprivation is.

DD hasn't really nursed to sleep with any regularity since she got reflux at 7 weeks, but it does work most nights after she initially goes to sleep. She pops on and off and ends up crawling all over the bed, chair, whatever until she is completely awake and overtired and can't get to sleep.


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Thanks everyone. The ideas and support really help. With this sleep deprivation I really do feel like I'm crazy a lot of the time.


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## jmmom (Sep 11, 2007)

Wow, I really feel for you. I have a sensitive stomach (although nothing like your dd's), and being hot can exacerbate it - does she take a bath at night? If it's too hot, maybe it's making her body temp rise too much. That's just a really, really out there thought for what seems to be a super difficult problem. Good luck with everything. Take naps with her if you can!


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jmmom* 
Wow, I really feel for you. I have a sensitive stomach (although nothing like your dd's), and being hot can exacerbate it - does she take a bath at night? If it's too hot, maybe it's making her body temp rise too much. That's just a really, really out there thought for what seems to be a super difficult problem. Good luck with everything. Take naps with her if you can!

Thanks for the suggestion. No, she doesn't usually get a bath at bedtime. Maybe once every 2 weeks does her bath happen at this time. DH and I hate being too hot also so our room is always cold at night. Window open, fan going, etc. In the winter we have the heat completely off at night. Good thought though!


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## Bird Girl (Mar 12, 2007)

I used to give baby motrin instead of tylenol for teething. I think it's safer, and you can get the dye-free version. Also, I think that motrin works better for me, so why not for them?

My daughter was a real sleep-fighter. It really, REALLY helped to follow a strict nap schedule and bedtime schedule. I put her down for her morning nap at 9 a.m., when she'd only been awake for two hours. It was amazing how well that worked--she'd go off to sleep like a little lamb. If I was late on that morning nap, then the whole cycle of overtiredness began, and we'd have crying and thrashing around at bedtime.

I think that some kids are just super-sensitive to being overtired and they can't take it at all. Even at age six, if my DD gets overtired, we can count on grumpy behavior or manic energy, and physical symptoms, too, like a headache.


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## MaterPrimaePuellae (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bird Girl* 
I used to give baby motrin instead of tylenol for teething. I think it's safer, and you can get the dye-free version. Also, I think that motrin works better for me, so why not for them?

My daughter was a real sleep-fighter. It really, REALLY helped to follow a strict nap schedule and bedtime schedule. I put her down for her morning nap at 9 a.m., when she'd only been awake for two hours. It was amazing how well that worked--she'd go off to sleep like a little lamb. If I was late on that morning nap, then the whole cycle of overtiredness began, and we'd have crying and thrashing around at bedtime.

I think that some kids are just super-sensitive to being overtired and they can't take it at all. Even at age six, if my DD gets overtired, we can count on grumpy behavior or manic energy, and physical symptoms, too, like a headache.


Yes, yes, yes. We use ibuprofen and it seems much more effective for my DD. She also needs a very early nap; if something happens to that early nap, the rest of the day is much more difficult. I am NOT a schedules person (I'm just not organized enough...) but I have realized that DD really needs that scheduled nap time during the day.
My DD will not go to sleep if I am sleeping next to her. It's too much stimulation, or something. I have to either sit in a rocking chair by the bed and pat her, or curl up on the end so that only my hand is touching her.
We also do a think where I tuck her in bed, turn off all the lights, and go sit in the rocking chair. She gets up out of bed and toddles over in the dark to nurse. She thinks of this as a little game, but I think it also reinforces the idea that bed is not a "trap," mother is right there (or in the next room) and she can come find me if she wants to.
Also, I'm sure you have thought of this, but my DD often needs to start getting to sleep long before I'm thinking that she is tired. If I wait too long-- even 20 minutes past the first sleepy signs-- it can make bedtime a much more drawn-out ordeal.
Finally, the vomiting/crying.
One of my in-laws had a child who would go from calm to hysterical crying fits so extreme that he would faint within moments (he wasn't breathing while crying, or something). They took him to the doctor, and there was nothing "wrong" with him. He was just like that. I'm sure there were triggers (it's not like he fainted every day)-- probably just overtiredness. It happened a lot when they were out shopping, so overstimulation,too. He's now a healthy, happy adult. The phase passed.


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## Blucactus (Nov 20, 2006)

Gosh, it sounds hellish! I have no advice, but didn't want to read & not post. Hope things get better soon whether you find a solution or they just 'change' on their own...


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Just wondering (and brainstorming) - do you have a bedtime routine? I do find having one has helped us some... The not having a bath before bed made me wonder, since that's the first part of ours.


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *veganone* 
Just wondering (and brainstorming) - do you have a bedtime routine? I do find having one has helped us some... The not having a bath before bed made me wonder, since that's the first part of ours.

Oh, I am the queen of routine - in my own life and hers. I annoy the hell out of my family because I am SO inflexible about bedtime schedules - both for nap and night. She has a very reliable routine for both that she completely knows and expects. As the last few days have passed I am really starting to think that a big factor in this is her being so.damn.overtired.all.the.time. The poor thing cannot stay asleep long enough for any decent rest. Two nights ago she was literally up every 20-30 minutes all night long (this was the night 2 molars came through). Today her mouth is a big, bloody, open wound mess - the poor child! I went to buy dye-free motrin and am definately giving her some tonight. I just can't stop thinking about the fact that as soon as these finish coming in the canines are right around the corner (don't even talk to me about 2 year molars







). Just knock us all out and wake us up when they're ALLLLL in!


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaMary* 
Oh, I am the queen of routine - in my own life and hers. I annoy the hell out of my family because I am SO inflexible about bedtime schedules - both for nap and night. She has a very reliable routine for both that she completely knows and expects. As the last few days have passed I am really starting to think that a big factor in this is her being so.damn.overtired.all.the.time. The poor thing cannot stay asleep long enough for any decent rest. Two nights ago she was literally up every 20-30 minutes all night long (this was the night 2 molars came through). Today her mouth is a big, bloody, open wound mess - the poor child! I went to buy dye-free motrin and am definately giving her some tonight. I just can't stop thinking about the fact that as soon as these finish coming in the canines are right around the corner (don't even talk to me about 2 year molars







). Just knock us all out and wake us up when they're ALLLLL in!

I know it's your child and you should do what you feel is best, but I have to say that if she's in so much pain she can't sleep I'd definitely give her something for the pain. I wouldn't be able to sleep with my mouth hurting either. It is also safe to do a double dose of Tylenol once a day, if you have to. I've done that at bedtime before for bad teething and for fever.


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *veganone* 
I know it's your child and you should do what you feel is best, but I have to say that if she's in so much pain she can't sleep I'd definitely give her something for the pain. I wouldn't be able to sleep with my mouth hurting either. It is also safe to do a double dose of Tylenol once a day, if you have to. I've done that at bedtime before for bad teething and for fever.

Well, we'll see how tonight goes with the motrin. I mean, she sleeps like crap anyway - even when she's not acutely teething, so I don't expect much but hopefully she can at least sleep in two hour stretches.


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

She really does sound like DD in sleep. It's MUCH worse when she's teething, but the difference between Motrin or no teething and teething is 1-2 hours at a time vs. 20-45 minutes. Still, an hour of sleep is a heck of a lot better than none. I wish you a peaceful and restful night...


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Deleted, responded below


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Treasuremapper* 
I would give up and try again in six months. This is way too hard.

Give up on what? She's not trying to nightwean...


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## ASusan (Jun 6, 2006)

We have lots of similar experiences, except, thank goodness, no vomiting. We did have a major spit-up last night. DS goes nuts if we miss the sleep window. DH is not home on TUesdays, and those are the most difficult evenings. DS finally fell asleep in the Ergo when I was vacuumming after 9pm.

Can you get her to bed any earlier? It seems like you're missing the window more often that you're getting it. Start the routine 10 minutes earlier each night, if you can.

And, I think the insta-puke can become a learned automatic response very quickly. Not in the manipultive sense, but that once she gets worked up, it just happens. And, unfortunately, every time it happens, it just serves to reinforce itself, making the next reaction that much more likely to occur.


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Treasuremapper* 
I would give up and try again in six months. This is way too hard.

Please read through the thread before posting. There is nothing I am doing that needs to be given up. Do you think I'm trying to nightwean or something?


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ASusan* 
We have lots of similar experiences, except, thank goodness, no vomiting. We did have a major spit-up last night. DS goes nuts if we miss the sleep window. DH is not home on TUesdays, and those are the most difficult evenings. DS finally fell asleep in the Ergo when I was vacuumming after 9pm.

Can you get her to bed any earlier? It seems like you're missing the window more often that you're getting it. Start the routine 10 minutes earlier each night, if you can.

And, I think the insta-puke can become a learned automatic response very quickly. Not in the manipultive sense, but that once she gets worked up, it just happens. And, unfortunately, every time it happens, it just serves to reinforce itself, making the next reaction that much more likely to occur.

Yeah, I totally agree that the puking has become an automatic learned response, even though it's not conscious. Hopefully I can keep it from happening for long enough that she'll kind of forget about it. The whole bedtime timing is a tricky one. We start in the "6's" and are usually nursing by 7pm. I actually don't usually miss the window for sleep in terms of our overall timing but she often does this crazy "must stay awake" thing during nursing and songs so she'll nurse and basically fall asleep easily and then start flopping around and trying to get up and play. If I can get her settled back down quickly then we're okay but if she ends up awake for a short time then we're usually in trouble. I don't want to sound obnoxious but I really am doing everything "right" I think - things that would be working for the majority of kids. She's just....um, special.







:


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

You're right, I didn't read the thread carefully enough. I think the reason I didn't is because both of daughters had severe reflux and one of my daughters even had to have intestinal surgery which caused even more vomiting.

I actually have experienced what you experienced, and all I can tell you is what sort of worked part of the time for our daughters. I had a LC come to the house and I followed her suggestions.

I do not believe in emotional puking or puking as a learned response. I think that there may be an underlying medical problem, hopefully one that she will grow out of. The LC suggested nursing in extended sidelying positions on a tilted surface. In practical terms, this meant putting the top of our bed on cinder blocks with a bean bag neck cushion under the feet to prevent our daughters from sliding down the bed. After feeding, my dh and I took turns sitting up and holding our daughter upright, with us leaning back in a chair or on the bed, tummy to tummy. We did this for 30 minutes after each nursing. So we almost went crazy with sleep deprivation. We also had a laundry routine, where I would hold our daughter while my dh did laundry. Over time, we developed a system with layers of towels and sheets and mattress pads, so we could just strip off the vomited on layer and toss it in the washer, with a clean set already on the bed.

In the event that your child's vomit is bilious, that is, bright yellow or dark green (without the consumption of food that color, of course) then it could be an emergency. that's what happened with our second daughter, and she needed surgery for an intestinal obstruction.

I would go to a pedi GI to discuss these symptoms. But do not agree to any testing without a clear understanding about whether the treatment would change with the test results. Our second daughter had the reflux probe tests, a 24 hour test that required hopsitalization. At the end of the test, they said she had reflux but that the medicine bothered her so don't give it to her. So it was just pointless, expensive torture, (unless they were trying to rule out something more serious, which is possible).

Our daughters did often cry right before they vomited and I think it was due to nausea or reflux, not that the vomiting was caused by the crying. One thing our daughters' pedi GI did recommend was a tiny dosage of Maalox or some other liquid antacid for pain. I do not recall the details, this was years ago. He allowed it only because of the situation that the other recommended meds caused additional vomiting.

One last thing -- each of our daughters wore apnea monitors for one month after stop breathing episodes caused by the reflux. This was totally painless and not a big deal.

Good luck -- I'm really sorry that i gave such a flippant response. I think your post was intense reading for me on some level, because those were not happy memories.

Hugs.


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## alllyssa (Sep 1, 2004)

Forget the 7:30 bedtime and just hang out w/ your DH and do what you always did before you had your little one. Let her, run around and play and don't worry about getting her to sleep at some specific time. The struggle to keep a child asleep who is not totally tired, just isn't worth it IMHO.

Good luck,


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alllyssa* 
Forget the 7:30 bedtime and just hang out w/ your DH and do what you always did before you had your little one. Let her, run around and play and don't worry about getting her to sleep at some specific time. The struggle to keep a child asleep who is not totally tired, just isn't worth it IMHO.

Good luck,

I agree that it's worth talking to your ped about reflux; DD had it from around 7 weeks to 10 months and meds did help.

Some babies don't do well if you just let them get exhausted by not trying to get them to sleep. The more exhausted DD gets, the more of a mess she turns into. We have tried the above, and we end up with a baby who will scream and fuss for over 2 hours to get to sleep. It's a nightmare for all of us. She doesn't get so sleepy she falls asleep; she gets more and more fussy until she is an inconsolable mess.


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alllyssa* 
Forget the 7:30 bedtime and just hang out w/ your DH and do what you always did before you had your little one. Let her, run around and play and don't worry about getting her to sleep at some specific time. The struggle to keep a child asleep who is not totally tired, just isn't worth it IMHO.

Good luck,

She is falling down dead tired by about 6:30. Thanks for your input but keeping her up even later is definately not the answer for us. She is more than totally tired, that isn't the issue. Once her damn teeth get in and we have some hope of more restful sleep I am imagining things will start to smooth out a bit because she won't be tired ALL the time but for now she is just needing lots and lots of nursing and snuggling - not more activity in the evening to make it even harder for her to wind down, yk? And...she is a child who will NEVER just falls asleep when she's tired enough. She will just cry and cry, the poor thing - including in the car.

ETA: DD is exactly the same as veganone describes. overtired = absolute disaster not easier sleep.


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## Teensy (Feb 22, 2002)

No solutions, but much sympathy. Long time ago I had a friend who asked our mom's group about this issue because her DD was crying until she threw up. I didn't think about how tough that must be until my niece stayed a weekend with us and she was a cry-until-you-puke toddler. And it happened fast too. Once I put her in the crib (not crying until I set her down), realized I had left her pacifier downstairs, went downstairs to get the paci (I was 8 1/2 months pregnant so I didn't carry her down), came right back up, and she had already thrown up. Ugh - changing pjs, changing sheets, washing my niece, washing the crib rails, washing a load of laundry - all because I set her down for literally less than ninety seconds. Ugh. I called my friend to apologize for not being more sympathetic.

Hopefully some of the previous advice will help, but if not - you do have lots of sympathy!


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## Lolagirl (Jan 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaMary* 
She is falling down dead tired by about 6:30. Thanks for your input but keeping her up even later is definately not the answer for us. She is more than totally tired, that isn't the issue. Once her damn teeth get in and we have some hope of more restful sleep I am imagining things will start to smooth out a bit because she won't be tired ALL the time but for now she is just needing lots and lots of nursing and snuggling - not more activity in the evening to make it even harder for her to wind down, yk? And...she is a child who will NEVER just falls asleep when she's tired enough. She will just cry and cry, the poor thing - including in the car.

ETA: DD is exactly the same as veganone describes. overtired = absolute disaster not easier sleep.

Hmm, if she's already that sleepy by 6:30 maybe you are already missing her sleep window by 7pm. Have you tried shifting her sleep routine even earlier, like closer to 6pm? I know some babes around that age simply need to go to sleep super early no matter what, perhaps your daughter falls into that same category. It sounds to me like she may already need to be asleep by 6:30 if she seems that tired.

I can sympathize to some extent because both of mine definitely still do better going to bed as soon as they show any sleepy signs (these days around 7pm or so, and they are 3 years old.) If we let them just run around until they are exhausted they can't fall asleep because they have simply gotten too wound up, and it's absolute hell trying to get them settled down once they've reached their point of no return. But I definitely notice that mine seem to sleep better throughout the night if I get them sleeping before they reach the point of exhaustion.

As far as the puking is concerned, that also sounds like it might be a side-effect of exhaustion/over-tiredness. Hopefully, it's something she will transition out of once she get's out of the teething and sleep fighting rut into which she seems to have fallen. I went ahead and gave pre-emptive Motrin at bedtime to my two when I could tell they were uncomfortable from teething and it really did seem to help them sleep better, so I guess I fall into the go ahead and give it a try camp.

Hope that helps, and good luck!


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## ghannit (Apr 15, 2008)

What is it about Tylenol that is the major concern for you (and others)? I've heard good and bad about it. DD is 8 months old with 8 teeth and I've cracked 4 times so far. I'm still EB and co-sleeping and am finding this past week particularly trying/exausting.

So about Tylenol-- what is the best advice? Why avoid it?


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## liseux (Jul 3, 2004)

I agree with the others who said maybe putting her to bed later might help. Let's say after dinner, for example, you guys are reading or talking or possibly watching TV. Or going for an evening stroll, whatever... So, she just hangs out with you and if she wants to nurse , fine, if she's content playing alongside or looking at books, fine. Even if she's fidgety or fussy, possibly redirect her or engage her for minute & then put her to bed around 9 or 10. This is just a thought.

I do still nurse my 2 yr old all night and I'm not that happy about it, but he doesn't wake up fully & sometimes neither do I. He goes down at around 9 and wakes up maybe twice, sometimes more or less. When we do earlier bed times we tend to see more of him in the middle of the night.

As for tylenol, the pp asked what was wrong with it, this just came out today: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080919/...FKdRJKI0.s0NUE
No pharmaceutical is perfect, tylenol has issues and ibuprofen can be hard on the stomach. Child Calm or maybe a flower remedy might also be helpful?


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## Nicole77 (Oct 20, 2003)

Okay, first off







. It sounds like this has been a really hard few months for you. Poor mama.

I am not sure how popular some of this will be around here but we have battled the nighttime wars three times in this house, with three very different children. Here is what I would do.

1. Switch her over to one daytime nap. Someone else mentioned this and I think it will be a help with bedtime. Her naps are wonky because she is at that one year old stage where she is trying to switch over to one nap herself. It is time. Keep her happy and playing throughout the morning, have an early lunch around 11:30, and then off to nap by noon. She will probably start taking 2-3 hour naps in a little while.

2. This earlier and longer nap will help with stage two which is to make her bedtime earlier. I know a lot of people seem to think that she is not sleeping easily because she isn't tired but in my experience it is usually the opposite. Both of my youngest (almost three and one a half) are in bed between 6:15 and 6:45 every night. If I waited until 7:30 every night it would probably be hell. Plus, you will begin to get your evenings back for adult pursuits and it will be lovely!

3. Stop nursing to sleep. You have been wanting to and clearly it is no longer working anyway. Keep it as part of your bedtime routine but not the going to sleep part. We use the following routine (adjust it for your world):

dinner
dancing in the kitchen
upstairs for potty and teeth brushing
pjs
into mommy's bed for nursing and then out of mommy's room
into Mason's bed (the two youngest share a room) for stories
snuggles and sleep
Usually my husband and I tag team this bit since they both have different wants/needs. Mason at almost three needs to be snuggled for a few minutes and then while he is still awake I kiss him, tuck him in, and leave the room. He stays in bed and is asleep within a few minutes. Eleanor is younger and wants someone with her until she is asleep so if I am getting them both to bed I just have all three of us snuggled in Mason's bed until she falls asleep (usually 5-10 minutes) and then I scoop her up and move her to the crib. Make falling asleep something separate from nursing and that should help with the struggle. Plus, it will cut down on her having an excess of milk in her tummy that is making her queasy and vomit-y.

4. The snuggles to sleep thing works differently for every kid. When we got going with this with ours I found the best success by snuggling or rocking them until they were sleepy and then putting them into their crib/bed while still awake. I would lean into the crib and rub their tummy/forehead/back and sing songs until they fell asleep. If they fussed I persevered; if they started really crying I picked them up, soothed them and then when they settled immediately put them down again. The first night it took almost an hour of this up and down. The second night about 20 minutes and by the third it was working within fifteen. Then I progressed to sitting next to the crib and holding their hand while they fell asleep. After several weeks when they were completely used to falling asleep without a nipple in their mouths I would lie down next to them/snuggle them to sleep. Being too snuggly close at the beginning just made them think about milky all the more.

5. From the sounds of it, I think the vomiting thing is a response not an illness. This is not to say she is evilly plotting against you of course just that this is becoming an ingrained response, a habit. I think you should work on all the above listed stuff and keep a bucket close by for puking. Have the sheets ready for easy changes like someone else mentioned and just go right back into the routine if she does vomit. In my experience a new sleep routine takes one to two weeks of consistency before it becomes normal and easy. Give it time and be patient with yourself and your daughter. Thankfully, they outgrow even the toughest stages with a little help from us!


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## orangecanoe (Aug 3, 2003)

Not reading all the other responses, but what worked for us at that age was to nurse dd downstairs on the couch, either to sleep or til she was done and then DH carried her up to bed and stayed til she was asleep. Nursing in bed didn't work for getting to sleep at night, but stayed our routine at nap for a while longer.


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## Bayleesan (Jun 11, 2007)

I don't have time to read all the posts, but I read the orginal. My DD was the excat same way. Nothing to do but not put her down, and yes it sucks, I am sorry. She was really intense from birth to 18mo with the night nursing, really intense, boob in mouth all night long, period. When she was around 19-20mo she finally started sleeping soundly after the boob was gone and I put her down. She would wake about an hour later for more, and then every 2-4 hours after, that finally spaced out, then she suddenly asked to sleep in her own bed around 23mo. Nothing ever happened when I wanted it too, I just had to wait for her to do it, when I let go and waited for her to do it herself the transitions went much smoother and faster. She sleeps in her own bed now, but usually joins us sometime in the middle o f the night. Sometimes at the begining though, just what ever she needs, it's the only way we get any peace.


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## Mrsboyko (Nov 13, 2007)

I did read most of the responses, so here goes.

You said she is dairy intolerant, correct? Does she have any other issues? Possible soy? Do you use any milk substitutes for yourself?

Next idea. Reflux is often soothed by drinking/ eating often. I have had it and I know the feeling. The laying down while nursing could be triggering the reflux, then the excessive nursing could be over filling her stomach. The crying leads to instant expulsion of the excessive BM.

Teething pain is the worst, but Hylands teething tabs are "in a soothing lactose base" BAD, BAD for dairy sensitive little ones. Do not give these to her. Look for the teething pellets. Can't remember the brand name, but our walgreens carries them right next to the hylands stuff.

Overall, she has this nervous response to the bed time routine. It needs to be changed somehow. Location, temp, sounds, something. Could you nurse her sitting in a rocker so she is more upright? Maybe start a routine where you listen to a CD to fall asleep. Something needs to change to break the association.

Hugs to you though. This sounds so tough. Get a good bucket.....


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## TinyMama (Sep 4, 2007)

When I need to change something DD does that's getting terrifyingly close to "routine"--while keeping teething pain in mind--I change it BIG for a few days until she's less attached to the normal routine.

Like, get her in her pj's at a friend's house, nurse her there, then drive her to sleep. Or do the whole bedtime routine, including nursing--not in bed--and then walk her to sleep in the stroller. I know you said your LO doesn't like to sleep in the car/stroller, but if you get her right at her sleepy time, she might.

After doing different things for a/b 3-4 days, I would reinstitute some parts of the normal routine and ditch the ones that weren't working for you. I stopped nursing in bed at night around 12 months b/c it just drove me crazy, and DD now happily nurses in a chair before bed. Also, my DD (16mo) likes her crib and her space now, even though we bedshared and then coslept for a long time. Things change for these little people, and for some reason they don't politely tell us!









Good luck. This sounds like a tough situation.


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## Channelle (May 14, 2008)

I wanted to say that even though the baby at my house is only 7 months old, she has been teething since she was about 2-3 months, and only in the last month or so, she has been vomiting when she gets upset, but also only at specific times. She only does it at night, and when she does it, it correlates with her worst times in teething. The difference between her and your little one is that mine is ff. I know she's a lot younger than your own, but she already has four teeth, and seems to be teething again pretty bad in the last day or so. My family believes strongly in homeopathic remedies, so I have a bunch of homeopathic ways to help my baby when she's like this. You might already have tried some of this, so take or leave any of my advice, just trying to help you the best way I know how.
I was recommended to give her a little bit of warm fennel "tea" at night before she goes to bed, and since I've been doing this, no vomiting! (You probably could take it yourself and let your daughter get it through breastmilk, not sure on that) And her teeth don't seem to bother her as much. We just do our regular routine, but after bath and before bed we now give her a little fennel tea, put some kind of oil on her gums or some hyland's tablets, and then we lay her down in our bed and give her a nice slow massage with a homeopathic (herbal, no sugar added) rub they have at the apothecary. I was told the vomiting had more to do with nerves then anything, nerves about going to sleep, about me leaving, about the pain, and about still being keyed up from the days event.

When we give her a massage (5 drops mandarin, 2 drops chamomile and 30ml sweet almond), also it helps to make a mixture to massage just around the jaw and neck (2 drops of chamomile in 15ml of aloe vera gel and massage the jaw and neck area), we then make an we turn on some soothing music, dim the lights and make it calming.

Here are the things my HV told me to do to cut down on the vomiting (it calms the stomach and nerves) and teething pain, maybe one might work for your baby:

*fennel tea-just one tea bag to 200ml water, no sugar. You can get it from herbalist and just put teabag in a bottle with boiled water and leave to cool, only leave teabag in for about 20 seconds. You can also add a little chamomile or peppermint to the tea.

*A weak, warm catnip tea will also help soothe the nerves and calm the body. Add 1/2 tsp. of herbs to 1 cup of boiling water.

*Wet a cotton swab with 1-2 drops of chamomile oil and apply to the gums. Chamomile has a sedative and antispasmodic action. For a better effect, add 1 drop of clove oil to the chamomile.

*Put 1 drop of tea tree oil in a glass of water; mix well, then rub it on the gums for a sedative effect.

*Lobelia extract, aloe vera gel or peppermint oil rubbed on the gums also provides relief.

Also, a great way to calm her down at night is to rub a little bit of lavender oil on my shoulder, and then rest her head on my shoulder and rock her to sleep that way. She likes being put to sleep this way then by laying down. I hope something works, this is the only kind of advice I can give.


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Thanks for all the input I am getting here. I don't really have time to respond to everyone individually but please know that I appreciate the time you have taken to chime in on my situation. A few things that perhaps I should mention that have come up...
1. She has been dairy intollerant for many months and I am well aware of all the hidden places it can be - including homeopathics. Thanks for the head's up though.
2. Some people have talked about laying down while nursing, reflux, etc. I just wanted to reiterate that when this issue happens it doesn't happen during the night when she is laying down. It happens during the bedtime routine, and she nurses on my lap with me sitting at that time.
3. Channelle - a specific thanks for those great suggestions. Some of them we do already and some are new ideas. I think they all sound wonderful! She used to drink fennel tea all the time when we were working on gut healing and she loves it so I will definately start some of that again.
4. I do think we'll try to keep to one nap per day. We continue to go through the motions of the morning nap because she really needs that down time of books and nursing a few hours after she wakes but hopefully most of the time she won't sleep at that time.
5. I think I will experiment with even earlier bed time if it seems she needs it and see how that goes.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

have you ever taken babe to see a chiro?


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionessMom* 
have you ever taken babe to see a chiro?

She gets chiro and craniosacral on a regular basis from an AMAZING doc.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoulaMary* 
She gets chiro and craniosacral on a regular basis from an AMAZING doc.

that is great! well it will at least help us narrow this down for ya.


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## kimiij (Jun 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Treasuremapper* 
I do not believe in emotional puking or puking as a learned response.

I do- emotional puking that is. I volunteer in my church's sunday school and a 2 year old was so upset that his mother left him there that he cried until he puked. On me.


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kimiij* 
I do- emotional puking that is. I volunteer in my church's sunday school and a 2 year old was so upset that he cried until he puked. On me.

Yes. I can understand how those who have never seen it or experienced would think that but it very definately does exist! It has happened to me as well - dry heaving after finding out about the sudden illness of a loved one and also once when DD hurt herself really bad and I got REALLY scared and was wondering if something terrible had happened. (She was fine thank goodness but I know firsthand how something emotional can cause vomitting).


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Puking isn't that uncommon in extremely emotional situations, even in adults.


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## donutmolly (Jun 9, 2005)

Just had to reply -- because it sounds soooo much like what we went through with DD. I could not believe that teething would cause so many sleep issues. DH and I were zombies for months, we tried everything, and I mean everything! As soon as those teeth were all in, she started sleeping so much better. But this was around 20-22 months -- sorry, I know it sounds like an eternity, but we did make it, although it didn't seem possible at the time. 14-18 months was her worst time, and around the end of that we moved her to her own bed in her own room. I don't think it was a magical solution, but we figured we weren't getting any sleep anyway, so we were willing to try whatever to help.

By the time she was 2, she slept in her own bed most of the night and would come in in the early am to nurse, it was heaven! She's now 3, and a fine sleeper -- and has outgrown her dairy sensitivity (although we still don't encourage dairy).

We never had the puking at bedtime, but she did go through a solid 3 weeks (maybe longer) when she threw up every evening. But we had no doubts (after the first day or two when we thought it must be food poisoning or a stomach bug) that it was an emotional reaction .... you see, we were moving internationally, getting rid of most of our belongings, going through a very stressful time. She knew, was upset, and that's how her body reacted. So yeah, I might check out a GI specialist, but I'm quite sure that emotional puking is real!

Hugs! It's sooooo hard, but you will get through it! And finally getting sleep makes 2seem like such a wonderful, delightful age!


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## Kira's mom (Nov 30, 2004)

I nursed dd to sleep (naps everything) for 4 yrs. actually just after turning 2 she'd nurse 30 min and still not take a nap. She didn't get crabby so I finally stopped trying to ger her down w/a nap. If she was up after 10 minutes we just skipped it. i've been there. feeling like you're chained down. Dd never got herself into a state though. It must be hard on you and also on the baby. I agree with you. She's not manipulating. i know this will pass. i hope it's soon for both of your sakes. Good Luck- try to stick in there.


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## alllyssa (Sep 1, 2004)

If your little one is that pooped by 6:30, maybe she needs another nap. When I've tried to put my kids to bed too early, they'll just sleep for a couple of hours, think it's a nap and then they're up till midnight.

It is totally out of my realm of understanding that a toddler can go to be at 6:30 and sleep all night. Usual bedtime around here for baby and preschooler is between 9 and 10pm. My 7 year old starts getting ready at 8pm and my teenagers set their own schedule.

Again, good luck,


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## lactivist (Jun 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alllyssa* 
It is totally out of my realm of understanding that a toddler can go to be at 6:30 and sleep all night. Usual bedtime around here for baby and preschooler is between 9 and 10pm. My 7 year old starts getting ready at 8pm and my teenagers set their own schedule.

Again, good luck,

I used to feel the same way until my 3rd came along. He goes to bed between 6:30-7pm and is up at the same time in the morning. He sleeps through the night except to thrash around while dreaming and to nurse at around 4am. He is 3 1/2. My other kids were much more like you described, if they went to bed early it was only a nap.

Wendi


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## nalo (Oct 25, 2005)

I've been playing around with one versus two naps and earlier bedtime. Here is what I've found....
If I decide that I am determined to have her take 2 naps then it usually takes at least 30 minutes to get her to sleep, if not longer. Then she sleeps for 45-60 minutes. At night, even though she is tired, it takes as long as 90 minutes to get her to sleep and she starts getting worked up because she's tired but can't seem to fall asleep.

If I decide it will be a one nap day then she is pretty fussy and clingy starting in the late morning and I have her asleep by 12 noon - 5 minutes of nursing and she's out. Very easy. However, she will only sleep for 90 minutes max (usually closer to 75-80 minutes). She really needs a 2 hour nap. In these evenings, she gets fussy and clingy starting around 5 but then we start books and nursing at 6:30 and she's sound asleep by 7 - easy bedtime, no getting worked up. No matter what, she usually sleeps about 11.5 hours at night (including all the wake ups to nurse). So if she goes to sleep at 7 she'll probably be up at 6:30 in the morning, maybe 7.

So....my plan is to continue the one nap thing because it makes the nap time and bedtime SO much easier. And, even when she takes 2 naps she's really not getting that much more sleep. I think this plan will ultimately be great if she stops waking SO much at night and can lengthen the one nap to at least 2 hours. We'll see!


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## Nicole77 (Oct 20, 2003)

Yay! I am glad to hear that things are finally on the upswing!


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## Littlebee8 (Mar 9, 2009)

I have this same exact problem. I was searching for a solution on the internet and found your post. How has it been going?

DD (18 months) will nurse ALL night. It is her pacifier and I have been getting tired of it. I don't sleep well at all and neither does she. Everytime I try to get her to sleep without nursing she will start crying and within seconds she will puke. Even during the day she wants to nurse to sleep and I can't lay her down in her crib or she will puke. I have to either nurse her to sleep or walk her to sleep while fighting her. She will keep crying and trying to lie back to nurse. Once she does get to sleep she sleeps less than an hour. The whole routine is wearing me down and it needs to change.

I would be interested in hearing how things are for you now.


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