# Healing the Gut Tribe ~ February



## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Not ready to go to sleep yet, so I thought I'd start Feb.'s thread.

Jan thread

I have decided I definitely need to change dd's diet. She has a rash on her leg that was spreading with what the dr prescribed, and it didn't look like her regular eczema, either. It is responding quite nicely to a natural antifungal cream.
I've been watching the show, http://www.knowthecause.com/ , by Doug Kaufmann. What he says really makes sense. I think I'm going to try his diet for a while with her. And make coconut milk yogurt. (I experimented enough with my crockpot and I think it's going to work.) His diet is basically give up grains, sugars, fruits (except for green apples, berries, avocados, coconuts, and citrus), dairy (except for yogurt, butter and sour cream), beans, legumes, corn, potatoes, peanuts, pistachios, and things made with vinegar. We already avoid most of those things anyway. The hardest thing to avoid for her will be grains as she is used to eating brown rice waffles.

I wanted to do the scd diet, but it just seems like it would be too hard to do the scd with her. I recently found out she is severely allergic to eggs. She's also anaphylactic to dairy. And she's allergic to almonds, spinach, most beans, peas, corn, and wheat. She loves green beans, but they give her diarrhea and diaper rash. She doesn't digest carrots or raisins, either. And Since she's allergic to two nuts, we're avoiding the other nuts until she's at least three. (And avoiding seafood til then, too.)

I may try to make some of the scd baked good recipes with pumpkin seed flour and flaxseed/water as an egg substitute. Michaela loves meats, so I don't think protein will be an issue. I just need to get her to eat more veggies. She really doesn't eat much fruit, either except she loves frozen blueberries.

Anyone have any kid friendly ideas for veggies?

I was looking into the enzymes recommended on enzymestuff, but it bothers me that they contain fungal derived enzymes. Does anyone have any info on this?

btw, I did the master cleanse for 10 days. I felt great. I did get really bored with drinking the drink, though. I just wanted to chew on something. Since I stopped, I've been eating crap--pizza, pb & j, etc. I can definitely tell a difference. No more garbage food for me.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

So, the Kaufman diet sounds a lot like the paleo diet, only with some dairy in it and limited fruit. What is the reasoning behind the fruit limitations? What are you supposed to eat instead of grains if you don't eat beans? Just nuts? Interesting that beans are not allowed, but seeds are -- wonder what the different reasonings are? I know SCD considers seeds to be very irritating.
As far as veggies, can you sneak some into a smoothie? I would cook them first for digestibility. Also, what about a stir fry? DS seems to like veggies better that way than steamed.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Anyone done both a total elimination diet and SCD? How did you start? Isn't it usually like rice and chicken or turkey?
Yes, I have and learned about it here from these fine women!







I am actually here to update our status.

Dd #2 has had reflux since birth. She has never had any trouble gaining weight but it was affecting her sleep. We tried 3 different medicines and no help. Some made it much worse. We went to a chiropractor etc... Then I found out about food intolerances and sleep patterns.

I eliminated dairy first w/dd - no change. Then tried wheat - no change. Then I just decided to do the total elimination diet and it that made things WORSE! We finally went to a naturopath and allergy specialist. He gave us enzymes and did muscle testing and lo and behold that's what worked!

I know many people are skeptical of kinesiology. (I myself was too and if I did not experience this myself I wouldn't have believed it.) This testing showed dd was *allergic* to rice, broccoli, and other things. Funny, all I was eating on the TED was rice, broccoli and turkey! No wonder!

I know the TED works for many people and I'm not saying don't try it. I'm just grateful we've found something that seems to be working. The enzymes I think are the key. Both dd and I are taking them. JaneS can tell you more about this!

Anyway, check these pics. Here is dd (taken 1/4) when she wasn't sleeping before all of this. And here she is yesterday.
(Last night she only woke TWICE! Oh, and we've been off all meds for weeks now!)


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Wow Annikate! She looks much better!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I know! I'm so glad I took that picture that day even though it makes me







to see it. And this change has taken place in only a month's time!


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
So, the Kaufman diet sounds a lot like the paleo diet, only with some dairy in it and limited fruit. What is the reasoning behind the fruit limitations? What are you supposed to eat instead of grains if you don't eat beans? Just nuts? Interesting that beans are not allowed, but seeds are -- wonder what the different reasonings are? I know SCD considers seeds to be very irritating.
As far as veggies, can you sneak some into a smoothie? I would cook them first for digestibility. Also, what about a stir fry? DS seems to like veggies better that way than steamed.

I hadn't thought of it being like the paleo diet, but you're right. I think the reasoning behind the fruit thing is the same as the yeast connection diet. And beans, some grains and fruits are added back in after the initial phase of the diet. The Kaufmann diet appeals to me because I feel much better when I don't eat grains or beans.

I will definitely have to try sneaking veggies in smoothies. I was thinking of pureeing some veggies as a sauce over chicken or whatever. We'll see.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

From last mo.'s thread:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Anyone done both a total elimination diet and SCD? How did you start? Isn't it usually like rice and chicken or turkey?

I would substitute squashes for the grains to stay SCD and not give the bacteria anything to feed on while you eliminate the top 8 allergens: dairy, peanuts, tree nuts, fish, shellfish, eggs, soy and wheat.

There are a lot of vegetables you can have, even if you want to avoid the nightshades at first too: tomatoes, peppers, eggplant. Fruits: peaches and pears and best to start with, cooked.

Check out the food chart at www.pecanbread.com under Food Prep section for easiest to digest foods too, and all cooked fruits/veggies first.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Thanks for the TED advice even though I posted my query on the old thread; I will think about it. Squash is yummy to me, ds and dh won't eat it, but I can make other things for them. Cutting out nuts will be hardest, of course, since they're the thing I bake with. But I do have a feeling they aren't agreeing with me, particularly cashews and peanuts. Walnuts have always given me migraines, so I've avoided those for years now. I don't know my insurance will cover kinesiology, and if not, we wouldn't be able to afford it. I looked into blood tests for food intolerance, and they are very expensive and not covered by insurance. Sigh.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Jen,

Cashews and peanuts are harder to digest. Pecans I think are easiest according to Pecanbread. You may also do better soaking the nuts to remove phytates which hamper digestive enzymes.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Here's a good reason why it's so hard to change intestinal flora...

Quote:

Human beings, like all animals, play host to many types and high numbers of microbes on our skin, in our mouths, in women's vaginal tracts, and all the way through our gastrointestinal tract. In fact, it has been estimated that *there are more microbes associated with the human body (about 10 14, or 100,000,000,000,000 bacterial cells) than there are human cells in it (about 10 13).* In addition to this very large number of bacteria, there also is a very large diversity of bacteria. It has been estimated that more than 400 different species, or types, of bacteria make their homes on humans.

http://www.usprobiotics.org/basics/
10 14 means 10 to the 14th
10 13 is 10 to the 13th.

Now I can add these fancy facts to my rants about the importace of probiotics!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

BTW, & OT:
Jane I finally clicked on your siggy links & ds is adorable!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Thank you Annikate, as my mother used to say, in the midst of his colicky periods... well the good lord made him so cute for a reason! He does have cute working for him at least.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I still have a vaginal yeast infection myself, and ds and I still have dark circles under our eyes after 4 months on the diet. I feel like this diet is not working for us, which is why I thought I'd try an elimination diet, at least for myself, maybe cut out eggs and dairy for ds (but only after he eats all our 24 hour yogurt, lol).

I guess I'm also kind of reeling because I recently found out I have peridontal disease, which according to what I've read can be caused by food intolerances (the immune system reacting to the food in your gums). (I also have polycystic ovarian syndrome, which is what triggered my search in the first place, along with ds's symptoms -- see http://www.pcosliving.com/cure_pcos_page3.html# ) I know the food intolerance=inflammation thing is newish, but it totally made sense to me immeditely, even though I couldn't really explain it to anyone, even dh. Sigh.


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## mavery (Jun 3, 2005)

Hi all,
I've been watching these threads for a little while (and been overwhelmed by the prospect of reading them!). I was just diagnosed with c.diff infection (diarrhea and cramps for 6 mo.) and JaneS replied to my post about it and suggested SCD. I'm not sure if I can manage it, but anyway I'll be lurking a little trying to pick up some info and tips from you all!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Hi mamas!

I've been lurking off and on, b/c we haven't started the diet yet







: In fact, when we do start the diet, we are going to try the MD first, and if need be, the SCD.

I just wanted to jump in and report that Thai Coconut milk now has soy lecitin added to it







: I'm beyond pissed. The cans w/the black top that say "Thai Kitchen" on it are safe, but the new cans have a gold colored top. There is another brand of organic coconut milk (green container), so I'm going to order them from my co-op by the case. And I make the best damn coconut milk yogurt w/my progurt starter









Also, Jane, I remember reading somewhere that you wanted some chicken pox for your lil' guy. I'm in VT, and we have them now. I thought you were in MA.

Okay, carry on








Amy


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Amy, if you don't mind, would you please tell me how you make your coconut milk yogurt? I've been trying to figure it out. I actually made some Thursday, but it didn't set at all. I probably did it wrong.
Here's what I did, and please anyone feel free to give constructive criticism.
I heated 1 can of thai coconut milk and 1 tsp honey in a double boiler. I never could get it to heat to 180, though--only got it up to about 160. I cooled it to around 110 and added 16 capsules of probiotics. I then incubated it in the crockpot, turning it on low for about 10 min every 45 min. I know I got it too hot at least twice. I finally gave up after 9 hours and put it in the fridge. It doesn't taste bad, but it's very runny. I am planning to use it as a partial milk replacement when I make waffles later today.
The crockpot method was a huge pita for me. Of course, it didn't help that I started in the evening. I have since bought a yogurt maker to try the next time.
Do you think a yogurt starter would be better than probiotics? I used the NOW brand. I wanted something dairy-free. I just did a search for progurt and see that it's dairy free so I could try that.
Please give me any advice you can.
Thanks in advance.


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Hi everyone,

I am back after a long hiatus. For those that don't know me, my exclusively bfed dd had ezcema at age 5 mo which I cured by going on an elimination diet (with Jane S's help). She seemed to react to dairy and chocolate in my diet. Anyway, slowly I have added those back into my diet and she no longer develops ezcema, even though now at 18 mo she still bf's a lot.

I've had a lot of bloating for a long time. I was on antibiotics for about a month total not long after she was born for first a breast infection and then retained placenta. At one point in trying to get the good bacteria in my system, I ate some bad homemade "cultured vegetables" and had gut pain and diarhea for 2 days, after which the bloating got worse.

Not being completely sold on the SCD, I went to a nutritionist who is also supposed to be a medical intuitive, and he told me that by looking at me (then he "proved" it using muscle testing) that I didn't have yeast but that I wasn't digesting my foods properly because I wasn't making enough hydrocholic acid. He gave me that to take-one pill w/ each meal and some "plant enzymes" he developed to take at each meal. He also told me to take "greens First," a powdered green drink you mix w/ water. He also told me I didn't have to change my diet.

Well, that didn't seem to help, and the green drink seemed to be bloating me. I went to a naturopath who referred me for a "Live Blood Analysis." This is where a drop of your blood is taken and placed under a microscope, and the image is projected onto a video screen so you can see it. The person who did it is a nutritionist and she has years of experience w/ the live blood analysis. Anyway, she saw the yeast/fungus right away. She also spotted other nutritional deficiencies that are likely causing my body to not produce enough digestive enzymes or HCL. Then, we were almost done with our consultation when she spotted a fluke/tapeworm like thing swimming along! Oh my God, I have parasites too! That was a wake up. So much for the psychic nutritionist. Now I had proof of what was happening!

I'm on a candida diet, and am taking enzymes, molybdenum (trace mineral), a homeopathic yeast/fungal remedy, oregano pills (for the parasites) and magnesium-helps with chocolate cravings, sleep, and I'm likely deficient in it. A week later, I got DD's blood tested, which looks good except for yeast, and she says that travels through the breastmilk. She said it should clear up if I give her enzymes and probiotics-and, of course, if I stop reinfecting her. DH got his blood tested too, and he has yeast and gall bladder issues-something which she figured out that the regular doctors couldn't-they thought it was his liver.

Anyway, I'm happy I found her. I have to stay on the diet a month, then get my blood retested. It has been a bit of a challenge so far. When I'm upset or emotionally triggered I run for the chocolate. So, I've been going to Overeaters Anonymous-which is for anyone who compulsively eats.

Has anyone else had a live blood anaylsis done? How's everyone else doing? I hope well!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Hi all,
How do you know if you have yeast issues? I mean do they always have to be apparent & obvious? I don't think dd or I do but after reading about Sarah's experience, I wonder.

BTW Sarah, I would LOVE to have that blood testing done for myself and dd! And boy, can I relate to the chocolate craving. Ice cream too.

mavery - you reminded me: I had c.diff about 10 years ago. I remember that yucky feeling! I've actually had intestinal issues since surgery at birth.







No wonder this is all starting to make perfect sense to me!

Jane - I tried acidophilous (only once) because it made me so bloated. Is it supposed to do that?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
I still have a vaginal yeast infection myself, and ds and I still have dark circles under our eyes after 4 months on the diet. I feel like this diet is not working for us, which is why I thought I'd try an elimination diet, at least for myself, maybe cut out eggs and dairy for ds (but only after he eats all our 24 hour yogurt, lol).

I guess I'm also kind of reeling because I recently found out I have peridontal disease, which according to what I've read can be caused by food intolerances (the immune system reacting to the food in your gums). (I also have polycystic ovarian syndrome, which is what triggered my search in the first place, along with ds's symptoms -- see http://www.pcosliving.com/cure_pcos_page3.html# ) I know the food intolerance=inflammation thing is newish, but it totally made sense to me immeditely, even though I couldn't really explain it to anyone, even dh. Sigh.

UGH....









This says to me that you need some minerals. I would look to adding things rather than taking more out unless you do a challenge. DS's circles disappeared on a multi mineral supplement (one for kids, from BrainChild).

Not sure I buy the allergy theory in total ... my reading tells me it is nutritionally based. But then again, if you have an allergy it does reduce the amount of nutrients you can absorb by damaging the gut! Are you taking cod liver oil? That is excellent for inflammation.

It's possible that the PD could be taxing your immune system so much that you cannot recover?

I also wonder that if your pancreas is stressed from overproducing insulin, that it effects the production of digestive enzymes? just speculating here.

How is DS otherwise?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mavery*
Hi all,
I've been watching these threads for a little while (and been overwhelmed by the prospect of reading them!). I was just diagnosed with c.diff infection (diarrhea and cramps for 6 mo.) and JaneS replied to my post about it and suggested SCD. I'm not sure if I can manage it, but anyway I'll be lurking a little trying to pick up some info and tips from you all!









try to read as much as you can, we were talking vegetarian SCD a while back, you can do a search too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
I just wanted to jump in and report that Thai Coconut milk now has soy lecitin added to it







: I'm beyond pissed. The cans w/the black top that say "Thai Kitchen" on it are safe, but the new cans have a gold colored top. There is another brand of organic coconut milk (green container), so I'm going to order them from my co-op by the case. And I make the best damn coconut milk yogurt w/my progurt starter









Also, Jane, I remember reading somewhere that you wanted some chicken pox for your lil' guy. I'm in VT, and we have them now. I thought you were in MA.

Okay, carry on








Amy









Oh you are so nice to remember us! Except I'm scared though!! Just now while DS seems to be doing okay and gradually improving bit by bit, I so don't want to mess anything up. ARGH. There was I thread in Vacc. I think about the optimum age, gonna go check that out...

How's the CP going?

There are instuctions to make coconut milk on www.Pecanbread.com but I imagine coconuts are not easy to come by in VT


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
I just wanted to jump in and report that Thai Coconut milk now has soy lecitin added to it







: I'm beyond pissed. The cans w/the black top that say "Thai Kitchen" on it are safe, but the new cans have a gold colored top. There is another brand of organic coconut milk (green container), so I'm going to order them from my co-op by the case. And I make the best damn coconut milk yogurt w/my progurt starter









Also, Jane, I remember reading somewhere that you wanted some chicken pox for your lil' guy. I'm in VT, and we have them now. I thought you were in MA.

Okay, carry on








Amy









Oh you are so nice to remember us! Except I'm scared though!! Just now while DS seems to be doing okay and gradually improving bit by bit, I so don't want to mess anything up. ARGH. There was I thread in Vacc. I think about the optimum age, gonna go check that out...

How's the CP going?

There are instuctions to make coconut milk on www.Pecanbread.com from shredded coconut I think?


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## Yin Yang (Jul 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Hi mamas!

I've been lurking off and on, b/c we haven't started the diet yet







: In fact, when we do start the diet, we are going to try the MD first, and if need be, the SCD.

I just wanted to jump in and report that Thai Coconut milk now has soy lecitin added to it







: I'm beyond pissed. The cans w/the black top that say "Thai Kitchen" on it are safe, but the new cans have a gold colored top. There is another brand of organic coconut milk (green container), so I'm going to order them from my co-op by the case. And I make the best damn coconut milk yogurt w/my progurt starter









Also, Jane, I remember reading somewhere that you wanted some chicken pox for your lil' guy. I'm in VT, and we have them now. I thought you were in MA.

Okay, carry on









Amy

did you know you can buy Organic Coconut cream concentrate and make your own fresh coconut milk? I buy Organic cocoun oil from this company and I also have the cream concentrate - it's yammy!!! You can make LOTS of coconut milk from one quart of concentrate. I use it as a base for soups or into stir frys as well.
http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/co...oncentrate.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
Do you think a yogurt starter would be better than probiotics? I used the NOW brand. I wanted something dairy-free. I just did a search for progurt and see that it's dairy free so I could try that.

We have Progurt from www.GIProHealth.com and it's a really nice starter...and dairy free. The yogurt is not very tart like acidophilus yogurt (it is L. casei instead).

The maker will probably help, although the oven method is all I use now.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
The person who did it is a nutritionist and she has years of experience w/ the live blood analysis. Anyway, she saw the yeast/fungus right away. She also spotted other nutritional deficiencies that are likely causing my body to not produce enough digestive enzymes or HCL. Then, we were almost done with our consultation when she spotted a fluke/tapeworm like thing swimming along! Oh my God, I have parasites too! That was a wake up. So much for the psychic nutritionist. Now I had proof of what was happening!

I'm on a candida diet, and am taking enzymes, molybdenum (trace mineral), a homeopathic yeast/fungal remedy, oregano pills (for the parasites) and magnesium-helps with chocolate cravings, sleep, and I'm likely deficient in it. A week later, I got DD's blood tested, which looks good except for yeast, and she says that travels through the breastmilk. She said it should clear up if I give her enzymes and probiotics-and, of course, if I stop reinfecting her. DH got his blood tested too, and he has yeast and gall bladder issues-something which she figured out that the regular doctors couldn't-they thought it was his liver.

OMG!!!









It's lovely to "see" you but yikes, you poor thing, I'm all creepy crawly reading this!









I once visited CureZone and got scared out of my wits with the possibilities of parasites and all sorts of stuff. Shudder.

What kind of diet are you on? Is it working?

I think "yeast" is kind of a catch all term... not that it's not a widespread issue, it is, but you and Mavery are showing that there could be other things going on in addition.

Why just molybdenum and not other minerals? Did you do any kind of testing? I'm just giving DS a complete mineral supplement rather than go thru testing, it seems to be okay, but of course all this sometimes is such a shot in the dark.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Hi all,
How do you know if you have yeast issues? I mean do they always have to be apparent & obvious? I don't think dd or I do but after reading about Sarah's experience, I wonder.

BTW Sarah, I would LOVE to have that blood testing done for myself and dd! And boy, can I relate to the chocolate craving. Ice cream too.

mavery - you reminded me: I had c.diff about 10 years ago. I remember that yucky feeling! I've actually had intestinal issues since surgery at birth.







No wonder this is all starting to make perfect sense to me!

Jane - I tried acidophilous (only once) because it made me so bloated. Is it supposed to do that?

Well I obviously had yeast issues for a long time causing the gas and bloating but didnt' know it b/c I never had vaginal or skin y.i. or anything. But got thrush when bf'ing several times when I ate a lot of sugar.

If you had c. diff before it's very likely to come back again. How did you know you had it and how did you get rid of it before?

(I'm simply blown away by the fact that there's now 2 of us here with c. diff histories!!)

The bloating when taking acidophilus is probably because of die off.... when the bad critters get run out by the good guys, they die and release a lot of toxins. It's called the Herxheimer reaction.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
It's possible that the PD could be taxing your immune system so much that you cannot recover?

Or the other way around the PD developed b/c of a suppressed immune system and not enough mineral absorption.

Have you seen my post "Curing Cavities with Nutrition" in Dental, have I said that yet? (Please forgive me if I'm a broken record, I forget who I tell what to!







)

Also I don't know much about periodontal disease, but gargling with sodium ascorbate solution several times/day including right before bed really helped a few pockets of gingavitis I developed from skipping







a few back teeth that were tough to floss.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

subbing and scratching myself over the parasite reminder. (my dad had a test like that too and I do often get scared silly at CureZone)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*MT's thread over in Vaccinations is a must read:*

Nutrition/Immunology 101.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=406983

Quote:

The "nutrition" that I'm interested in, is what is the important nutrition in terms of the immune system.

That can translate back to vaccines too, because if you chose to vaccinate, there are certain things you should know, one of which is that there are different immune responses to vaccines, depending on the food your baby gets.

The babies who seroconvert worst to vaccines are babies fed soy formula.

Next worst is casein based formula.

Best is breast-milk.

I want this stickied so that it can be easily found, and also so that its always in front of people's eyes, because its a fundamental.

Here are the basics foundational statements, and whatever else I put up will stem from there.

1) A baby's developing immune system depends on what a mother puts into her mouth. The fetus can only use what is left over after your body has removed what it needs for you.

2) Your immune system depends on what you put in your mouth. And if you don't get that right, then you can't expect to have a healthy baby.

3) Contrary to common cloned mindsets, the basis of immunity isn't antibodies. That's the end point, and in the grand scheme of things the least important of the lot.

4) The foundation of the immune system is the instestinal tract composing, hopefully, of the right gut flora which is important because it is your first defence system for anything either eaten or breathed in.

It is also responsible for absorbing minerals, and making and processing certain B vitamins.

Without a properly "stocked" gut flora you are behind the eight-ball before you even start.

And for babies this is crucial.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Oh you are so nice to remember us! Except I'm scared though!! Just now while DS seems to be doing okay and gradually improving bit by bit, I so don't want to mess anything up. ARGH. There was I thread in Vacc. I think about the optimum age, gonna go check that out...

How's the CP going?

There are instuctions to make coconut milk on www.Pecanbread.com from shredded coconut I think?

Jane, it is purely for selfish reasons, I assure you. To pick your brain for a full 3-4 hrs would be, easily, the highlight of my year.









So far pox are puny







My older son has teeny lil' spots on him and the baby has one spot on him that I found a couple of hrs ago. I'm really thinking my children are a lot healthier than I gave them credit for. Not discounting the yeast problem....ooopps, did I say that, I'm in denial presently









And I don't know what you are talking about, I have 3 coconut trees in my back yard









Pavlina, I am so all over that concentrate thing. My friend is a manager at my co-op and she is going to see if she can get it for me there, otherwise I'll buy it online. It will probably save me tons of $. THANK YOU!! (I am still pissed at Thai Kitchen though







)

And my coconut yogurt recipe, mlleoiseau. Very simple. But, I also think that I do not have high hopes, b/c I expect it to be a lil' runny. But if you were to purchase the concentrate stuff that Pavlina recommended, I'm sure you could make it thicker.

I use 3 cans of coconut milk. Feel free to use 4-5 cans of just the fatty stuff, and a teeny amt of the water. But that gets expensive, so I make do. Heat 3 cans to boiling. Cool to 120. Add my 1/8 tsp of the progurt starter (no dairy, no soy, no nothing), pour into my lil' containers for my yogurt maker---which one is is, I think I got the one Jane had, Euro--something. I prop the lid on two sides about 2 inches. This gives me yogurt at about 100 degrees. I end up leaving it for at least 24, sometimes 36 hrs. It is tart. But, I still find it really







My son will not eat it though (will in a smoothie).

Is Moneca still around?

And, please be honest w/me if this has been discussed and you want me to actually search for it, I am very drawn towards the maker's diet as opposed to the SCD. The MD just makes more sense *to me* in my head. Why has the SCD become the standard? Just curious.

Amy


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
If you had c. diff before it's very likely to come back again. How did you know you had it and how did you get rid of it before?
It was a long time ago - almost 10 years (?) I think. I knew something was up 'cause everything I ate came immediately out. I had a wonderful internal doc then and he knew what it was right away. Sure enough, test showed c.diff. He gave me some kind of antibiotic I think. (But that doesn't sound right does it?) I remember him questioning me and questioning me about the antibiotic use (but I hadn't taken them in like a year before this happened.)He seemed seemed puzzled as to where it came from.

BTW, I posted earlier about how much better dd is doing and she is (she looks better, no more spitting up (very little anyway), but her sleep is still pretty awful. I've had 2 good nights where she slept 3.5 or 4 hours at a stretch but it did not last. The past several nights have been waking every 1.5 to 2 hours. This IS an improvement over a month ago, but I was hoping the 3-4 hour stretches would become the norm.







Oh well. A little progress is better than none!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Jane, it is purely for selfish reasons, I assure you. To pick your brain for a full 3-4 hrs would be, easily, the highlight of my year.









So far pox are puny







My older son has teeny lil' spots on him and the baby has one spot on him that I found a couple of hrs ago. I'm really thinking my children are a lot healthier than I gave them credit for. Not discounting the yeast problem....ooopps, did I say that, I'm in denial presently









Is Moneca still around?

And, please be honest w/me if this has been discussed and you want me to actually search for it, I am very drawn towards the maker's diet as opposed to the SCD. The MD just makes more sense *to me* in my head. Why has the SCD become the standard? Just curious.









highlight of your year...and so early in 2006 too! You are too funny. Sadly my brain doesn't hold much these days, I do so much better with a computer, my books and Google









That's awesome re: tiny pox. You must be doing something right!

Moneca is going thru a rough time, Sierra's has been dx with gastroparesis. I think she posted in Special Needs Forum... she would love a friendly wave and good thoughts sent their way I'm sure.

We did talk a little about MD several months ago. I don't have a high opinon of him. To me, his diet seems to be SCD for the first month, then soaking grains (like Nourishing Traditions) after that. In fact, 95% of his recipes are directly from NT. The only thing different about his diet seems to be the 50 different supplements that he doesn't provide the science behind: HSO's, his particular enzymes, and that Clenzology thing. I'm especially disappointed in the lack of info about HSO's. Seemed like one big infomercial to me without anything new.

The SCD basis for excluding grains completely, and the entire diet, is based on scientific research. It also provides a very thorough explanation of how food influences your gut flora and behavior. In fact, he knocks SCD as not working for him and then proceeds to present a diet practically just like it! Again the big difference were his supplements. But I wasn't convinced his are so special (enzymes). Nor sure of their mechanism and safety (HSO's).

Oh and also his fungal killers and cleanses might not be for everyone. Whether it GSE or oregano oil or Oregon grape, they all work on different organisms, some for yeast, some for bacteria, and some kill probiotics too. Unless you are sure of what you got you can end up making the situation worse.

It's been a while since I've read MD, so feel free to bring up any points you are attracted to that I forgot! He just turned me off. Like watching the movie "Cast Away" I couldn't enjoy it b/c it felt like one big commercial for FedEx


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
It was a long time ago - almost 10 years (?) I think. I knew something was up 'cause everything I ate came immediately out. I had a wonderful internal doc then and he knew what it was right away. Sure enough, test showed c.diff. He gave me some kind of antibiotic I think. (But that doesn't sound right does it?) I remember him questioning me and questioning me about the antibiotic use (but I hadn't taken them in like a year before this happened.)He seemed seemed puzzled as to where it came from.

BTW, I posted earlier about how much better dd is doing and she is (she looks better, no more spitting up (very little anyway), but her sleep is still pretty awful. I've had 2 good nights where she slept 3.5 or 4 hours at a stretch but it did not last. The past several nights have been waking every 1.5 to 2 hours. This IS an improvement over a month ago, but I was hoping the 3-4 hour stretches would become the norm.







Oh well. A little progress is better than none!

Yes, antibiotics can be effective and are the normal way to treat c. diff with an MD.

I know EXACTLY how you feel in the sleeping dept. Hopefully you'll get there soon, it just takes a while for her central nervous system to heal.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Hey ladies! You all sound like you're doing really well. I haven't been here in awhile and kiddos have been great! We have introduced some grains back, but gluten isn't even an option...especially since I'm expecting again. I had to chime in to say that I had the live blood cell analysis done and it is pretty icky. I found out some not so great things that were later confirmed by standard blood testing and now I am thinking about doing SCD again. My celiac disease damaged my liver to the point that it's dumping a significant amount of enzymes into the bloodstream. I am trying to do nutritional healing as well as homeopathy and supplements. I'm just worried that it already went too far. I did really great on the SCD, so it's not a chore to go back...but there are things I would do differently this time. I had way too much meat for my comfort the first time around, so that will be drastically reduced. Nice to see everyone here! I look forward to sharing more stories of happiness and health


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

faery mama, how did your celiac disease get detected, and what symptoms did you have. Oh, and thanks Jane for the suggestion -- I am actually using the high vitamin butter oil and high vitamin flax oil. Hope it helps.

Jane: DS is ok, but his SID seems worse these days, with him still being super sensitive to sounds, etc. He's also started having nightmares that wake him, at least once a week, and he wakes frequently during the night. How did you find an SCD legal mineral supplement? DS can swallow pills (and is proud of that fact), so he's able to take anything solid, liquid, etc. One thing, he can't have mint because we're doing a homeopathic thing.


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## 2rubies (Oct 2, 2004)

I thought this thread was a little too quiet! Just subbing for February









I just got a package from digestive wellness, and it was like Christmas morning all over again! I can't believe you can order SCD goodies in the mail! Not something they had when I first did this 8 year ago!

Kristin


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
faery mama, how did your celiac disease get detected, and what symptoms did you have. Oh, and thanks Jane for the suggestion -- I am actually using the high vitamin butter oil and high vitamin flax oil. Hope it helps.

Jane: DS is ok, but his SID seems worse these days, with him still being super sensitive to sounds, etc. He's also started having nightmares that wake him, at least once a week, and he wakes frequently during the night. How did you find an SCD legal mineral supplement? DS can swallow pills (and is proud of that fact), so he's able to take anything solid, liquid, etc. One thing, he can't have mint because we're doing a homeopathic thing.

Does flax contain any vitamins? You want the cod liver oil for the vitamins A & D.

That's so tiring, I know. Sound sensitivity generally indicates yeast. Also nightwaking too. I wish my DS could swallow pills, but so far we've worked around it. The only pills I give him are A & D occasionally (when we used to use low vitamin Nordic Naturals cod liver oil) and he just chews those.

He gets Brainchild Ultra Sensitive minerals, you can order them separately from the vitamins. No sugar/flavor but they don't taste bad.

www.brainchildnutritionals.com

Good luck with the homeopathy! Tell me more... I'm just starting Amy Lansky's book, have you read?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Nice to see everyone here! I look forward to sharing more stories of happiness and health

















me too!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2rubies*
I thought this thread was a little too quiet! Just subbing for February









I just got a package from digestive wellness, and it was like Christmas morning all over again! I can't believe you can order SCD goodies in the mail! Not something they had when I first did this 8 year ago!

Kristin

I've always had great service from them, highly recommend.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

What do you ladies think I should do next?

The more I notice dd getting *better*, the more I notice when something is really awry. I'm starting to really suspect gluten again (although the muscle tests didn't show that and my short-lived elimination didn't seem to help.)

She had a terrible time getting to sleep last night AND the night before. Last night she was hurting - I've never heard her cry that way before. She was gassy too. (Sweet potatoes? Ketchup?) ONce she did settle she slept pretty well.

I have not been taking Peptizyde, although I have them. I've just been taking an *overall* enzyme our naturopath gave me for dd. I am also not taking acidophilous though I bought them.

Should I take ALL of these? What do you ladies recommend?

Thanks so much! I just







learning about all this and just when I'm feeling so frustrated, I'll finally feel a little twinge of progress. . . It IS all-consuming though isn't it? Example: BOTH dds are napping (A VERY RARE occassion and I should be napping but instead I'm doing this!)


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

I would start one thing at a time, then after 2 or 3 days add a new thing.

I rush things and push the limits of progress as much as possible. Some people wait a week to try new things....not me...I am in a hurry!

I haven't read the homeopathy book. But I want to...

I wish we had a local homeopath I could trust. I am such a beginner with homeopathy. I have about 30 remedies that I use regularly, but I don't think I have enough knowlegde of homeopathy to "cure autism" or "heal the gut" with what I know now.

A lot of my remedies are one size fits all, like rescue remedy, teething tablets, euphrasia, etc. If I have to know specifics that won't work because my son doesn't communicate to me about his health. It would be the equivalent of doing homeopathy for pets...because ds won't tell me too much how he is feeling day to day.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

You don't really need to know specifics, observation works really well for kiddos. I just got a new constitutional remedy for dd today. THe way it works is that it looks at her whole picture (screaming and demanding things-then throwing them away, scolding others, independance, better when cool, hating blankets etc.) Then if there's two or three remedies that fit her constitutionally, one of them will generally deal with gut issues. You don't pick a remedy based on gut issues-make sense? Ultimately the one theat most fit her also deals with gut issues, vomitting, and skin erupations-all of which she has. So we know it's a good remedy. It is, unfortunately important to have a good homeopath when you're starting out.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Annikate,

Sweet potatoes or ketchup (especially the high fructose corn syrup variety) would be a *nightmare* for DS! Even when he was doing better those sorts of things would produce an immediate reaction.

Definately do the acidophilus, see how you react after several days to a week, then start very slowly on the Peptizyde, that stuff is strong.

I have a rec for a very good homeopath, I just want to read Amy Lansky's book first so I know a little more about what we are about to undertake. I find the classical approach very interesting.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

We suspected I had celiac disease for awhile, in fact when my LC met me it was one of the first things she said. I of course ignored her, continued having digestive problems so severe I was often homebound and if I did leave (this sounds strange-but not if you know the whole story!) I couldn't ride in a car with anyone else. I had intestinal pain, cramping and diarrhea every day. I gained a ton of weight for no apparent reason. Those were the main things. But then I had dd and she clearly had allergies form go. She was failure to thrive until she was 15 or 16 months when a family doc who also happens to be an herbalist contacted me (I was seeing another doc in her practice, but she wasn't taking new patients) and took me on as a patient. The moment she saw dd she told me she had celiac disease, and by that point probably plenty of other allergies. So we tested. At first it was negative, nobody told me you have to be consuming gluten for it to be positive. We had cut it out months before. We did a different test and the results required further prodding, so we did a genetic test. At that point she had yeast overgrowth, some significant deficiencies, and a badly damaged gut. I wasn't in great shape either! SCD really helped us.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
I haven't read the homeopathy book. But I want to...
What book is this? I would like to ceck it out too. (Like I really need *another* book sitting in my pile of "when I have time to read . . . "









Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Sweet potatoes or ketchup (especially the high fructose corn syrup variety) would be a nightmare for DS! Even when he was doing better those sorts of things would produce an immediate reaction.
See, now this just makes me feel so







! Jane you ought to write "The Idiot's Guide to Food Intolerances!" I'd be your first buyer!


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## mavery (Jun 3, 2005)

Please bear with this uninformed question. I haven't got the SCD book, I'm still trying to figure out if I might get it or not. But for 2 days I've 'tried out' SCD eating (not the intro diet, just based on the legal/illegal list) and I feel totally nauseated and have a horrible headache. My feeling is that this is because the protein/carb ratio is not right - I get exactly the same symptoms if I try to do a high-protein diet or even The Zone or something, which is only moderately high-protein.

The question is, how do you get enough carbs into the SCD? Even eating bananas, plenty of veggies and fruit juice, I feel bad. Is SCD a (fairly) high-protein diet?

I know there are sometimes introductory symptoms like 'die-off' but I'm really sure this is to do with protein/carb ratio.

Sorry, I'm sure I should just read the book but.....


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I'll just jump in here with my .02. SCD can be high protein, but it can also be low protein. You are setting your own pace. I did is as a low-ish protein diet because I'm not all that fond of animal products (I was vegan before starting) You can do it as a vegan, but I couldn't for allergy reasons. You get plenty of carbs from fruits, veggies, nuts and beans. It is not a low carb diet, just a specific carb diet. As with any diet it can be done less than healthfully...you need to be reasonable and make sure you are getting alot of fruits and veggies along with the meats. My reaction to what you're saying (and saying that you had it before doing other diets) is that you are probably experiencing die-off or withdrawal. They both can manifest as hunger, headaches, dizziness and/or nausea. It shouldn't (in my experience) last more than two weeks...why don't you post what you are actually consuming in a day. That way we can give some informal feedback on your intake. Good Luck!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I should also say that I was MISERABLE for the first week of the diet. I felt that I wasn't getting enough food (which is absurd-nothing is limited and you eat to your fill, and I was!) I just couldn't kick the headache, nausea and hunger. I know now that for me it wasn't so much die-off, it was withdrawal. When you are even moderately allergic to a food it produces a histamine response (much like drugs or ciggarettes) It actually messes with the opiate receptors in the brain. You may crave the food, you may not register it that way. For me, I didn't necessarily NEED wheat, I just felt as though I was starving and a bowl of pasta would have helped immensely. The one thing that is for sure is that you will feel horrid until your body gets past it. And FWIW I really didn't know back then that I really had a gluten issue. The diet is what confirmed it in my case. I also know now that I can't do dairy in any form-raw, fermented, nothing. This diet really helps you attune to your bodies needs. It takes a bit to get past it, but it's totally worth it.


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## mavery (Jun 3, 2005)

Thanks for the replies. It could be a withdrawal thing. I'm partly just checking it out because I'm bfing, so I want to make sure I wouldn't be in ketosis on the diet etc. I'm vegetarian so I guess that would tend to lower my protein intake, but - how do you afford enough fruit and veggies to get enough calories???? Lots of lentils I guess! (My appetite is huge bc of nursing.)

Anyway, I just discovered my local library has Breaking the vicious cycle so I'll go and get it this afternoon, give it a few days' study and thought and then maybe try it for real and report back with questions etc.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Winter squashes are great sources of carbs.... baked and topped with cinnamon and honey, roasted with olive oil and rosemary, or in a soup with curry









Fruit smoothies with frozen fruit is an easy way to get in some carbs.

There are online sites (fitday?) where you can input your food and it will tell you carb counts. I think Faery is right when she describes the die off symptoms though.

Make sure you are getting enough fats too, I had this problem when I was on a standard Elimination Diet.

Just for the record, Elaine said you can be vegetarian while SCD but not vegan:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...dering_scd.htm


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## mavery (Jun 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Just for the record, Elaine said you can be vegetarian while SCD but not vegan:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...dering_scd.htm

I followed the link, her reasoning seems to be that you won't get enough protein otherwise. Do you think, though, that she might be out of date on this one? AFAIK, scientists used to believe that protein needs were way higher than they are, and from what I've read, we all hopelessly overconsume protein in the USA.

Anyway, I do eat eggs but not cheese, but with yoghurt and some pulses too it seems to me it would be hard not to get enough protein on SCD. Or does she argue elsewhere that you need extra protein in cases where the gut is compromised? Perhaps the book will reveal all..... On my way to the lib.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

It was pretty out of date. I did the math and could have easily done it as a vegan between beans and nuts, also veggies like broccoli have a good amount of protein in them. Unfortunately starting out I had to eliminate beans and most nuts...so I couldn't have done it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm NOT the one to ask on the safety and healthfulness of a vegan diet







since I believe it was one of the central issues that led me down this horrible path.

Cholesterol is essential to the immune system, as well as heavy metal detox which a number of us seem to have a problem with.

As are vitamins A & D found only in animal products.

I think Faery's post hits on the head though... a damaged gut cannot handle breaking down these advanced foods, and indeed does not even absorb what it should.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

That's exactly it, Jane. I feel so much better without animal foods, but with a damaged gut I definitely wasn't getting what I needed. I like Jordan Rubin's take on veganism...that it is great three or for months every year as a sort of cleanse. I think that once I'm back to health







I will employ that. I would never give up CLO though, especially while nursing or pregnant. I'm not sure about the A and D thing yet...I do believe that unless you have a healthy gut you absolutely need the more available forms in animal products, and I do think kids need animal products as well. Still learning...still reading...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*The Long Hollow Tube: A Primer on the Digestive System*
By Sally Fallon and Mary G. Enig, PhD

This is a huge and very interesting article, I'm only quoting some of my favorite points. At bottom of it, a description of all the stuff that can go wrong and an interesting discussion of possible causes of constipation (mineral deficiency).

Quote:

There are actually more nerve cells in the overall digestive system than in the peripheral nervous system. Furthermore, major neurotransmitters found in the brain-including serotonin, dopamine, glutamate, norepinephrine and nitric oxide-occur plentifully in the gut as well. Enkephalins-described as the body's natural opiates-also occur in the intestinal tract, as do benzodiazepines, psychoactive chemicals similar to mood-controlling drugs like Valium and Xanax...

___________________________

Many modern foods, such as processed milk products, breads and soy foods, are extremely difficult to digest; but traditional preparation methods made food easy to digest and facilitated assimilation of nutrients. They include:

Preparation of grains by soaking and sour leavening to neutralize difficult-to-digest components and nutrient blockers.

Long soaking and cooking, or even fermentation, of legumes.

Fermentation of many types of tubers, such as casava.

Lacto-fermention of condiments and beverages to provide beneficial bacteria for the digestive tract.

Consumption of protein foods (meat, eggs, fish and milk products) with plenty of fat.

Use of gelatin-rich bone broths. Gelatin acts not only to bring food into contact with digestive juices, it also soothes the intestinal wall.

Cooking of most vegetables (and even some fruits) to neutralize toxins and break down cell walls.

Proper aging of meat to initiate the breakdown of protein. With proper aging and/or fermentation, meat is quite digestible either raw or carefully cooked at low temperature.

Soaking and/or roasting of nuts to remove irritants and toxins.

___________________________

*Nutrients for the Digestive Tract*

*Vitamin A*, our favorite vitamin, is absolutely critical to the health of the intestinal mucosa. Without sufficient vitamin A, the mucous membranes become hardened and, paradoxically, more easily penetrated, leading to "leaky gut, " ulceration and irritable bowel syndrome. Vitamin A is also necessary for the assimilation of minerals and protein and plays an important role in the repair process. It has been used successfully to treat gastritis. Best sources are cod liver oil followed by liver and other organ meats, and butterfat and egg yolks from grassfed animals.

*Vitamin B Complex* is important for fat metabolism and liver health; B vitamins play a role in the production of bile. They are necessary to maintain muscle tone, stimulate digestive secretions, support the nervous system and ensure normal carbohydrate metabolism. We recommend Frontier brand nutritional yeast as a supplement along with a diet of whole foods to ensure adequate B vitamins.

*Vitamin C complex* contributes to the health of all the epithelial cells as well as the integrity of the blood vessels that nourish the intestinal tract. Vitamin C is necessary for biochemical repair. Lacto-fermented fruits and vegetables are especially good sources.

*Vitamin D* plays a role in fighting inflammation and strengthening the immune system, as well as in the assimilation of calcium and other important minerals. Crohn's disease is associated with vitamin D deficiency. Best sources are cod liver oil, lard from pastured pigs, oily fish, fish eggs, shellfish, and butterfat and egg yolks from grassfed animals.

*Vitamin E* is needed for muscle tone and a healthy nervous system. Deficiency has been linked to digestive problems such as peptic ulcers, colitis, constipation and cancer of the colon. Best sources are small amounts cold-pressed oils (too much polyunsaturated oil can deplete vitamin E), whole grains, butter and other animal fats and a supplement of wheat germ oil.

*Protein* is necessary for the maintenance of the mucous membrane in the stomach, particularly the amino acids cystine, lysine and arginine. Deficiency leads to muscular weakness and many other problems. Bone broths are an excellent source of arginine, and cystine and lysine occur in meat, milk and eggs.

*Phosphatidylcholine (PC)* has been studied by German researchers who found that PC is highly beneficial to the mucosal lining of the digestive tract, preventing or healing lesions and reducing the incidence of stomach ache. They found that PC was more effective than nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAID) in reducing gastric mucosal lesions. The researchers used PC derived from soy, but the best dietary sources are egg yolks and butter.

*CoEnzyme Q10* is critical for healthy muscles. The importance of good muscle tone is often overlooked in discussions about digestion. The best source is meat, especially heart.
*
Cholesterol* plays a role in intestinal health. The cells lining the digestive tract are particularly rich in cholesterol. Cholesterol is also the precursor to bile. It is provided only by animal foods.

*Salt* is key to digestion. Salt provides chloride for hydrochloride, necessary for the digestion of protein; and salt activates an enzyme needed for the digestion of carbohydrates. _[Jane note: get good sea salt, there is NO issue with high blood pressure as it contains all natural minerals and mixes properly with the blood, unlike processed salt which does cause edema. My current favorite is Redmond.]_

*Calcium* prevents cramps and spasms, protects against inflammation and supports both the muscles and the nervous system. Best sources are raw dairy products and bone broths.

*Potassium* supports the nervous system and connective tissue, as well as the production of hydrochloric acid. Best sources are meats, whole grains and vegetables.

*Zinc* deficiencies have been associated with problems of fat metabolism, inflammatory bowel disease and Crohn's disease. Best sources are red meat and oysters.
*
Beneficial Bacteria* help maintain a healthy ecosystem in the gut. Best dietary sources are natural yoghurt and lacto-fermented condiments and beverages. Supplements such as Primal Defense from Garden of Life can help repopulate the digestive tract very quickly in cases of digestive disorders.

___________________________

*Coconut Oil for Digestion*

Coconut oil is rich in medium-chain fatty acids that provide unique benefits for the digestive process. They have anti-microbial properties; that is, they fight against pathogenic viruses, yeasts, bacteria and parasites in the gut. These special fats are also the preferred food for beneficial bacteria in the colon.

For those who have gall bladder problems and difficulty in digesting fats, coconut oil can be very useful because the medium-chain fatty acids do not need to be acted on by the bile salts. And for those who have trouble digesting milk and cream, coconut milk and coconut cream can serve as substitutes.

Best of all, the body uses the medium-chain fatty acids for energy and rarely stores them as fat. Coconut oil aids digestion and boosts metabolism-wonderful benefits that come in a delicious package.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Man you're quick! Thanks!


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Amy, a couple more questions about your cocnut milk yogurt.
Do you add honey to the milk? Someone on the thread, (sorry, I don't remmeber who), suggested that honey may be needed so the bacteria would grow.
Also, how runny does it turn out? I think mine was along the lines of buttermilk.
tia


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Wow! So much information here.

I want to ask you wise mamas what you think of this:I started a new thread of ?s about enzyme deficiencies

Hope some of you can speak to this.

Thanks!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Been posting this link in other threads but may as well post it here too:

*Natural Vitamin A is NOT toxic. The studies showing toxicity were done on retinol, the chemical version of Vitamin A.*

Quote:

A key player in this fascinating story is Weston A. Price, who discovered that *the diets of healthy traditional peoples contained at least ten times as much vitamin A as the American diet of his day.* His work revealed that vitamin A is one of several fat-soluble activators present only in animal fats and necessary for the assimilation of minerals in the diet. He noted that the foods held sacred by the peoples he studied, such as spring butter, fish eggs and shark liver, were exceptionally rich in vitamin A...

While the ongoing process of research into vitamin A and its effects is a boon to children and adults throughout the world, modern agriculture and food processing conglomerates gain nothing from this knowledge. Confinement farming practices effectively prevent vitamin A from incorporation into animal foods and the processing industry would rather use vegetable oils than animal fats. Some vegetable oils contain carotenes but they do not contain true vitamin A. *Only animal fats contain vitamin A and vitamin A is present in large amounts only when the animals have a source of carotenes or vitamin A in the diet, such as green pasture, insects and fish meal.*

Unfortunately, the vast majority of popular books on nutrition insist that humans can obtain vitamin A from fruits and vegetables. Even worse, FDA regulations allow food processors to label carotenes as vitamin A. The label for a can of tomatoes says that tomatoes contain vitamin A, even though the only source of true vitamin A in the tomatoes is the microscopic insect parts. The food industry, and the lowfat school of nutrition that the industry has spawned, benefit greatly from the fact that the public has only vague notions about vitamin A. In fact, most of the foods that provide large amounts of vitamin A-butter, egg yolks, liver, organ meats and shellfish-have been subject to intense demonization.

Under optimal conditions, humans can indeed convert carotenes to vitamin A. This occurs in the upper intestinal tract by the action of bile salts and fat-splitting enzymes. Of the entire family of carotenes, beta-carotene is most easily converted to vitamin A. Early studies indicated an equivalency of 4:1 of beta-carotene to retinol. In other words, four units of beta-carotene were needed to produce one unit of vitamin A. This ratio was later revised to 6:1 and recent research suggests an even higher ratio.5 This means that you have to eat an awful lot of vegetables and fruits to obtain even the daily minimal requirements of vitamin A, assuming optimal conversion...

Carotenes are converted by the action of bile salts, and very little bile reaches the intestine when a meal is low in fat. The epicure who puts butter on his vegetables and adds cream to his vegetable soup is wiser than he knows. Butterfat stimulates the secretion of bile needed to convert carotenes from vegetables into vitamin A, and at the same time supplies very easily absorbed true vitamin A. Polyunsaturated oils also stimulate the secretion of bile salts but can cause rapid destruction of carotene unless antioxidants are present.

It is very unwise, therefore, to depend on plant sources for vitamin A. This vital nutrient is needed for the growth and repair of body tissues; it helps protect mucous membranes of the mouth, nose, throat and lungs; it prompts the secretion of gastric juices necessary for proper digestion of protein; it helps to build strong bones and teeth and rich blood; it is essential for good eyesight; it aids in the production of RNA; and contributes to the health of the immune system. Vitamin-A deficiency in pregnant mothers results in offspring with eye defects, displaced kidneys, harelip, cleft palate and abnormalities of the heart and larger blood vessels. Vitamin A stores are rapidly depleted during exercise, fever and periods of stress. Even people who can efficiently convert carotenes to vitamin A cannot quickly and adequately replenish vitamin A stores from plant foods.

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...aminasaga.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
Amy, a couple more questions about your cocnut milk yogurt.
Do you add honey to the milk? Someone on the thread, (sorry, I don't remmeber who), suggested that honey may be needed so the bacteria would grow.
Also, how runny does it turn out? I think mine was along the lines of buttermilk.
tia

That was me... just like adding honey is needed for making nut milk yogurt.

Very runny is normal... yogurt only gels when the protein matrixes are formed by the action of the lactic acid bacteria. Coconut milk contains little protein, so won't gel like dairy.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Wow! So much information here.

I want to ask you wise mamas what you think of this:I started a new thread of ?s about enzyme deficiencies

Hope some of you can speak to this.

Thanks!

Will think about this tomorrow after I watch some trash TV and sleeeeeep...


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
That was me... just like adding honey is needed for making nut milk yogurt.

Very runny is normal... yogurt only gels when the protein matrixes are formed by the action of the lactic acid bacteria. Coconut milk contains little protein, so won't gel like dairy.


WHAT?? No, I do not add honey to it while it is slow cooking, I never thought I needed to. I do add it when it is ready for consumption as it is quite tart and that is how my son will eat it.

Oh Jane, I can't stop laughing at....."and so early in 2006 too"







The baby has a nice healthy case of pox.........come visit, I have google and you can bring your books


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Have I already mentioned to you all that I am CONSUMED by this now?









I'm reading about SCD (although I've never had any yeast trouble that I'm aware of, nor has dd). I wonder too . . . dd tested positive for many of the foods allowed on this diet by our ND. So . . . I really can't do this.

It is so frustrating and hard to know what's right. I have to believe the muscle testing worked for us because it made such a significant improvement (and quickly too) but it changes and there are very little foods left that do not test positive.

I wish I could just have a list yk? That'd make things soooo much easier. Thanks for letting me whine.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Okay, I may actually have an answer here that I didn't have when I started. Sooooo, for what it's worth, here goes. We were also allergic to alot of the foods allowed on the diet, so I wasn't really sure how we'd do it. We couldn't do eggs, dairy, bananas, avacado, carrots, and on and on and on







But I talked it through with some of the mamas here (thanks jane and moneca!) and decided to try it. The purpose of the diet is to heal the gut and even if you are ingesting some allergens it will heal because those foods aren't damaging the gut...just leaking through the perforations. In the meantime though, you still have reactions. For us it was hyperactivity, bowel issues and rashes (amongst others, I'm sure) As you continue to heal it will get better. There are supplements though, that will mediate reactions. Quercetin will block histamine responses, halting the activation of the opiate receptors in the brain. So, taking the quercetin will block the response. It is very effective and we have used it for acute IgE reactions with success, so I'm very confident about this. I wish I had known about it in the beginning stages of the diet. Do some reading, or talk to an ND and see. It may be very possible to do the diet employing things like this. We had success without it-but it would have been an easier road had I known about it back then. I hope that helps. I don't know. Maybe I'm just babbling.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
There are supplements though, that will mediate reactions. Quercetin will block histamine responses, halting the activation of the opiate receptors in the brain. So, taking the quercetin will block the response. It is very effective and we have used it for acute IgE reactions with success, so I'm very confident about this.

What brand of Quercetin are you using? I am dying to get some for both of my kiddos, but the 4yr old and the 1yr old don't swallow pills. What are you doing w/it?


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## Yin Yang (Jul 9, 2003)

So do I understand right that the Quercetin will also help with the withdrawal symptoms? Since it blocks the histamin responses?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Okay, I may actually have an answer here that I didn't have when I started. Sooooo, for what it's worth, here goes. We were also allergic to alot of the foods allowed on the diet, so I wasn't really sure how we'd do it. We couldn't do eggs, dairy, bananas, avacado, carrots, and on and on and on But I talked it through with some of the mamas here (thanks jane and moneca!) and decided to try it. The purpose of the diet is to heal the gut and even if you are ingesting some allergens it will heal because those foods aren't damaging the gut...just leaking through the perforations.
Thank you! I've been reading through all the old threads and read some of your story. All I've seen so far about the SCD diet made me think it wasn't for us but this trial and error is soooo frustrating because one week it seems we're making progress, the next week it's back to red bumps under the eyes, no sleep, gas, etc.

I must've deleted the link to the SCD - can anyone post it for me? Oh, and I just don't see myself going through weeks of trying to get the yogurt making down either (I barely have time to pee!). Can I *buy* some somewhere that'll work just as well?

Thanks!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I use Designs for Health. It's a powder, and I just stick it in our morning smoothies. They're none the wiser







I did give it to my mother for withdrawal along with pascalite clay for die off. She didn't have nearly as difficult a time as I did. I'm also making sure I take it during this pregnancy so the babe doesn't get sensitized. I was just talking to the LC and nutritionist I work with about starting to recommend it to women with low supply who need to bridge the gap with formula. So far, so good. That way little babes who get a bit of formula when their bellies aren't ready don't suffer (as much) damage.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

DD has only just started solids. Would you all think it'd still be beneficial for me to do the SCD diet, even if dd can't yet?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

YES! You can start by healing your gut, and figure out the diet in time for your little one to start doing it. If you're breastfeeding, he'll start getting the benefits now anyway.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
WHAT?? No, I do not add honey to it while it is slow cooking, I never thought I needed to. I do add it when it is ready for consumption as it is quite tart and that is how my son will eat it.

Oh Jane, I can't stop laughing at....."and so early in 2006 too"







The baby has a nice healthy case of pox.........come visit, I have google and you can bring your books

Well if it's tart I guess the critters are growing!

Well maybe I'll come visit you when the POX have left the building!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
DD has only just started solids. Would you all think it'd still be beneficial for me to do the SCD diet, even if dd can't yet?

Absolutely... and why can't she do it too? Fruits, non starchy veggies, egg yolk, meat later. Sounds like a perfect start to eating to me! Grains are not supposed to be well digested until all the teeth are in (that's when the saliva amylase enzyme is working well). It's stupid that grains are the current first goods.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Thank you! I've been reading through all the old threads and read some of your story. All I've seen so far about the SCD diet made me think it wasn't for us but this trial and error is soooo frustrating because one week it seems we're making progress, the next week it's back to red bumps under the eyes, no sleep, gas, etc.

I must've deleted the link to the SCD - can anyone post it for me? Oh, and I just don't see myself going through weeks of trying to get the yogurt making down either (I barely have time to pee!). Can I *buy* some somewhere that'll work just as well?

Thanks!









Yes, cut out all but SCD foods for your babe and see how that goes, along the lines of the list I just posted. Cook/peel/seed all her fruits and veggies. NO raw until she is well healed and watch that carefully.

Here are the 2 links. Pecanbread is geared to ASD kids but has good recipes and great advice in the Food Prep section for kids in general. See the chart there for easy to digest foods to start with.

www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info start with Beginner section
www.pecanbread.com

Store bought yogurt doesn't contain enough probiotics, plus it contains lactose b/c it's not been fermented for the full 24 hours. Lactose feeds the bad bacteria in gut if it's not broken down by a working digestive system.

Homemade 24 hour yogurt contains 15 billion good bacterial count per teaspoon, which is higher than any capsule on the market.

It's not hard to make yogurt, I promise!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Thanks! I see that dd really can do this too! I thought this diet was MUCH more restrictive than it is.

Okay ladies, I'm going to embark on this journey with you! I'll give the yogurt a shot this weekend.









And one more question, just to clarify (even though I'm quite sure what the answer is ...) I DON'T have to have diarrhea or yeast issues for this diet to help right?

BTW, Jane - I ordered the hair test for both myself and dd. I got so worried after realizing that having my amalgams removed may have had something to do with this (or at least made it WORSE). I'll be *trying* to get enough hair from my baldie girl tomorrow to send off. I'm a bit nervous about seeing the results.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Not at all. Yeast is just one thing this diet fixes, as is diarrhea (though one can cause the other







) It really does so much more. Welcome! You'll find alot of support here, and you'll be suprised how well you can eat on this program.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Thank you! I'm printing the legal/illegal list now and making a preliminary shopping list.









I have the book ordered but probably won't get it 'til next week.

Oh, and I live in a state where raw milk is illegal for human consumption.







Soooo . . . gotta try to track that down somehow.

I'm really excited about how MUCH you can actually have on this diet! What do you use for sweeteners (beside honey)?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Annikate,

Raw milk is not essential but yogurt is, so start that first.

Re: amalgams
Please do keep us posted. And just focus on the fact that you know now and that's much more than most people! Think about upping your mineral intake and making bone broths. There is some evidence that the SCD is very helpful in supporting detox and healing so chelation can naturally happen.

You can use fruit juice for sweetening too. I sometimes cook frozen fruit and puree it (straining out seeds of strawberries/rasp/blackberries for DS) and it makes a great sauce. Yummy over yogurt or added to smoothies. Or boiled down a bit, a great syrup.

Saccharin is also allowed on the diet, Elaine did a lot of research on it, but I'm still weird about it.

I use liquid stevia occasionally, Sweet Leaf doesn't have an aftertaste. But SCD doesn't really allow it. I've never confirmed their claim that it is similar in chemical structure to a steriod... *Elisabeth* or *Amanda* do you know more about this? I'm so not in the mood for another research jag right now


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

firefaery, how did you find the remedy that had gut healing properties? What book lists that sort of thing? I'd love for gut healing to be helped by homeopathy, it's such a gentle kind of medicine.
Jane, I noticed the BrainChild minerals have xanthan gum in them -- how has that been? Isn't that SCD illegal?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I think its going fine, but we are still on half the recommended dose, going slow.

Response re: xanthan gum from one of the owners of Brainchild:

Quote:

The question is: why are the Ultra-Sensitive Brainchild Formulas
SCD-approved, even though they contain xanthan gum? The answer is that
Michael Lang, Brainchild's founder, and Elaine G. had a long conversation
last year about our supplements, and Elaine decided that the small amount
of xanthan gum in them is ok with her, in view of the excellent nutrients
and remaining ingredients provided. So they decided that the
Ultra-Sensitive formulas are SCD-approved by Elaine. The rest of our
formulas would have been approved as well, except that Elaine is not
comfortable with herbs in general, and our other formulas do contain herbs.

Btw, we do have some SCD families who have decided to use the other vitamin
formulas that contain herbs. When people ask, we let them know that the
amounts of the herbs in our vitamin formulas are very small, but until
recently we did not have numbers for them. I recently calculated how many
mg of each herb is in an ounce of the "non-SCD" vitamin formulas (SSI,
SSII, SSIIPAK, SSIII), and here they are, in case it helps anyone in their
decisions:

(numbers are in milligrams per ounce)
Gymnema Sylvestre3
Gingko7
Gotu Kola8
Burdock20
Chinese sarsaparilla26
Schisandra berries26
Milk thistle26
Astragalus26
Ashwaganda26
Fennel12
The Ultra-Sensitive mineral formula and our regular Spectrum Support
minerals (unflavored version) are almost identical, btw, except that the
Spectrum Support Minerals contain MSM and Slippery Elm. I know that Elaine
is uncomfortable with Slippery Elm, although the Native Americans used it
for hundreds of years to soothe and heal the gut. This is entirely your
call, as far as what you're comfortable with, of course. All of our
formulas are interchangeable - any mineral formula can be used with any
vitamin formula. You can mix and match bottles (i.e. choose to buy a
bottle of Ultra-sensitive minerals and a bottle of Spectrum Support II
vitamins) at the following page:
http://www.brainchildnutritionals.co...dOrdering.html

I hope this is helpful, and clears things up rather than just making them
more confusing. You may feel free to email me off list or on list with any
questions. I'm at terri @ mykland . com (take out the spaces)

Terri at Brainchild
mom to Zane, 12yo high functioning autistic


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Thanks, Jane. I will also ask my homeopath, she had said vitamins for small kids weren't good because they are hard on the kidneys, but maybe these would be better.

DS will be three this coming Wednesday. I would like to make him an SCD-legal birthday cake. Any ideas? Has anyone tried the banana cake from BTVC, and if so, what size pan did you use and how long did you bake it for? (that info is not in the recipe).


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Not at all. Yeast is just one thing this diet fixes, as is diarrhea (though one can cause the other ) It really does so much more. Welcome! You'll find alot of support here, and you'll be suprised how well you can eat on this program.
Soooo glad you guys are here!







At the risk of sounding overly-enthusiastic, I have to say that I was in *HEAVEN* today eating my legal foods (and recipies). I shopped & cooked ALL day. (After that TED, this was like gourmet eating to me!)

I made the muffins (apple & banana), made the peanut butter chicken, and the chicken soup. YUM to all of them! Gave dd1 all of it and dd2 had cooked pears today.

I also found a source of raw milk & goat's milk too. I can get some on Tuesday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
You can use fruit juice for sweetening too. I sometimes cook frozen fruit and puree it (straining out seeds of strawberries/rasp/blackberries for DS) and it makes a great sauce. Yummy over yogurt or added to smoothies. Or boiled down a bit, a great syrup.
Thank you! I'm weird about saccharine too.

Quote:

Raw milk is not essential but yogurt is, so start that first.
Do you mean I can have the Dannon plain yogurt that I bought today for my starter? Should I eat that instead of waiting to make my own?

Gotta ask you ladies about minerals later on . . . enough







from me for now!

I'm just soooo excited! After yesterday's almost-throwing-my-hands-up day, this is great! Thank you soooo much!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I have the text of an article here:

"Effects of chronic administration of Stevia rebaudiana on fertility in rats"
Journal of Ethnopharmacology
Volume 67, Issue 2 , November 1999, Pages 157-161

But when I copied to the disk at the library the tables and figures didn't copy. I'll try again next time. I think my next trip will be early March.

Here's the abstract:
A study conducted on prepubertal male rats showed that chronic administration (60 days) of a Stevia rebaudiana aqueous extract produced a decrease in final weight of testis, seminal vesicle and cauda epididymidis. In addition, the fructose content of the accessory sex glands and the epididymal sperm concentration are decreased. Stevia treatment tended to decrease the plasma testosterone level, probably by a putative affinity of glycosides of extract for a certain androgen receptor, and no alteration occurred in luteinizing hormone level. These data are consistent with the possibility that Stevia extracts may decrease the fertility of male rats.

****

I am drinking something with stevia in it right now, but I have reduced my consumption and I am reducing Frederick's. I don't want to be blamed 20 years from now for a reduction in the size of his testes.









Edited: The amount of stevia used in the study is much higher than would be used to sweeten some food. And they used the leaf I believe which is what's in the products I use. So basically, we don't really know. That's why I'm cutting back.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I was just going to post...we don't know. I don't use it. Period. As far as the remedy, there is no book I can refer you to. I am highly against treating myself in a constitutional way. No book, website or anything else you could get your hands on will list all the remedies. There are thousands. New ones are being proven constantly and there are such tiny nuances that to get it done properly you really need to see a classically trained homeopath. My dd's first remedy was firefly. It had just been proven and was not found in texts anywhere, but ot was perfect and we saw immediate results. It's really hard, but it's one area I don't compromise on. I know alot about homeopathy and can treat most anyone in acute situations...but NEVER constitutionally. I actually drive over two hours and pay through the nose to see my DhT who is also an MD (no longer practiced that way, but holds his license and therefore is able to order lab testing and such...) He is the president of the national center for homeopathy and is UNREAL. I am learning alot from him. I would definitely encourage you to find someone that can help you down this path. It is gentle and very effective. Hope that was helpful!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

faery,

Do you happen to know where I can find a description/profile for someone who is calcium carbonate? You know, the list of things.. "you might be a calcium carbonate if..." I've looked for it a bit and so far haven't seen my homeopath in ages except for in passing. The remedy saved me in pregnancy and pulsatilla changed Frederick's behavior when he was almost a year.

Amanda


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Thanks, Jane. I will also ask my homeopath, she had said vitamins for small kids weren't good because they are hard on the kidneys, but maybe these would be better.

DS will be three this coming Wednesday. I would like to make him an SCD-legal birthday cake. Any ideas? Has anyone tried the banana cake from BTVC, and if so, what size pan did you use and how long did you bake it for? (that info is not in the recipe).

We are avoiding the chemical forms of vitamins for that reason, the synthetic vitamin A palmitate that is in all vitamins, iron which is hard on sensitive digestions, etc.

I didn't get the Brainchild vitamins b/c it has calcium ascorbate which is a no-no. So I pick and choose.... in addition to the minerals I makes sure DS gets C and A and D. I'm afraid of the B's (hyperactivity).

I have made the banana cake in a large rectangular pyrex, forget how long to bake it though. The cashew butter cake recipe I posted a while ago is yummy.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Do you mean I can have the Dannon plain yogurt that I bought today for my starter? Should I eat that instead of waiting to make my own?

No, did I say that? make that 24 hr. yogurt mama!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Amanda, did you check here: http://www.abchomeopathy.com/

http://www.abchomeopathy.com/r.php/Puls

http://www.abchomeopathy.com/r.php/Calc


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Those are good sites, but again you are treating acutely as opposed to constitutionally...but you may get some relief. Just don't be suprised if the picture changes frequently. When you treat specific symptoms and they resolve others tend to crop up, or they resolve for a couple of weeks and return. Just don't get fed up with it. It really can work well!


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

I'm subbing to this.

My DD has some pretty terrible eczema all over her legs. It's not terribly obvious until you rub them. They're all dry and rough. My DH says it's just because it's winter and apparently he still get's it this time of year. Is this really just a winter thing? I can't imagine that regular moisturizing alone is the solution. DD has not had anything like this before (may be very milk dry skin, but not actual areas that look like eczema).

DS has a couple of spots of eczema on his legs to. I get worried about it though because I'm scared of a relapse (he had terrible eczema ftom about 4 till 10 months old, and we fixed it with an elimiation diet).

My skin seems fine, but I feel tired all the time. I've been soaking all my grains now







but I don't feel that's enough. My DH says I'm, obsessing over this stuff. But, I just don't feel 100%, and I'm a little worried about the kids, so I need to trust my instinct right?







He's really supportive of almost all the things I do, but I wish he'd take this more seriously







Where are those library books on SCD and live-foods that I was supposed to get!

I obviously have plenty of reading to catch-up on so I'll see ya around...


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Nevermind.







Didn't see Amanda's post...though I was responding to something else. That'll teach me to jump the gun! Amanda-that's a great site for what you need. Sorry!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
No, did I say that? make that 24 hr. yogurt mama!








I thought you meant that the yogurt was more imortant than the raw milk - - guess it was wishful thinking.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Annikate, 24 hr yogurt is simple. And I can tell you a great way to make it if you are lacking a yogurt maker and a thermometer (is that how you spell it, it looks weird







)

All you need is your starter, glass jars (mason jars are great) and awool blanket (thick one, we usually use an army blanket, but it is on our bed so we have the maker).

Get your milk ready--since we don't do dairy, you'll have to defer to the experts on whether you boil it or not, especially the raw stuff. Anywho, once that part is done, you want to get the milk down to 120 degrees so you can add the starter (and not cook all the beneficial bacteria). Since I don't want to wait long, I sit my pot in cold water and stir constantly (takes 2 min or so). You are at 120 degrees when you can put your finger in and count to 10, slowly. At this point you'll already have the starter in the jar and add your milk, while mixing.

Cover the jars w/the lids (different from a maker) and wrap the wool blanket all over it and under it and on top of it.

Let sit for 24 hrs. If the yogurt is not tart when you take it out, feel free to let it sit for some more. Refridgerate for a couple of hrs before using.

hth
Amy


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Admittedly, it's been awhile, but isn't 120 too high a temp? I'll have to go back and look, but I though that the temp shouldn't exceed 110 to keep the cultures alive? I will dig, but I could swear Elaine said 100-110 degrees...


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

firefaery, I have actually been working with a constitutional homeopath, but I'm not totally pleased with the results. She's a friend's mom, so it's free, but I think maybe it may be worth it to find someone else.

Jane: why is calcium ascorbate a no-no? I have been taking it myself. Oops!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Yeah...I wenet through several classical homeopaths (who weren't truly classical) before finding mine. My general rule was to give them a year, and if I got no results I moved on. With this one we had results immediately. I am totally willing to pay his fees because he is dead on every time. OT-my mother finally agreed to see him. She had leukemia and was going in for round four of chemo. I begged for over a year, and since her dad just died (of the same kind of leukemia) she decided to try another route. Her only physical symptom was that the lymph nodes in her neck were swollen larger than her head. After the FIRST visit and the initial dose of her remedy they decreased by half. It's now been almost three weeks and you can't see them anymore. I was very confident referring her to him, because he's THAT GOOD! Everyone deserves a practitioner like that! I love homeopathy







It's also a huge bonus that he's an MD, he called her oncologist (who told her she couldn't out off chemo for two weeks to see the homeopath first) and reviewed her chart with him and basically said "there's no reason that she has to do this now." What could the doc say? This was a respected MD looking at the chart, reading it correctly and he was right. A regular old homeopath wouldn't have that kind of clout. I feel really lucky. Any way...back to healing the gut!


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Admittedly, it's been awhile, but isn't 120 too high a temp? I'll have to go back and look, but I though that the temp shouldn't exceed 110 to keep the cultures alive? I will dig, but I could swear Elaine said 100-110 degrees...


Good question!! I could have sworn it was not to let it get over 120 degrees, but I could be mistaken. My yogurt has always turned out excellent and very tart (as already discussed). I know that when I was a raw foodist, the temperature where things started 'cooking' was 120 degrees, so maybe that is where I'm pulling that # from. But my book is in my room w/my sleeping baby, so can't look it up right now.


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

I posted awhile back about getting a live blood analysis done and finding yeast, fungus, and parasites. I'm basically supposed to be on a candida diet. I don't know why I'm taking molybdenum only... next time I will bring a tape recorder along to record what she is saying... I couldn't keep track of it all.

I'm struggling on the diet... I can't stay away from chocolate. That's an advantage of the SCD-you can't have chocolate, but at least you can make other sweets!









You all are doing great for making or even considering making the changes you are!









Jane, have you been on the SCD for almost a year now? Are you going to remain on it, or what are your plans?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Amy-you're right about the raw foods thing, but I think 120 is the temp that you can no longer stand having your finger in the water...which I wouldn't do in the yogurt anyway just becasue of my personal concerns about contamination. If that's the way you're doing it though, you probably aren't actually getting to 120. That's the good news! I did look it up and Elaine says in BTVC (pg. 158) to keep it between 100 and 110. I did read somewhere that it was okay to get it up to 115, but everything else said 110. And just to clarify, you can heat the milk higher, but the cultures shouldn't be exposed to heat higher than 110.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Jane, what minerals do you give ds? Are they a liquid, tablet, or what? Dd's doctors want her on a multi vitamin, and I've tried the Kirkman's capsule opened up and mixed in her food, but she usually refuses to eat whatever I mix it in.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
I'm struggling on the diet... I can't stay away from chocolate. That's an advantage of the SCD-you can't have chocolate, but at least you can make other sweets!
I'm mourning the loss of my chocolate too. (And rocky road ice cream.)









ETAsk: Is butter (i.e., Land O' Lakes or similar) allowed on the SCD? I don't think I read anything about that. (Hope to get the book soon.)


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
I'm subbing to this.

My DD has some pretty terrible eczema all over her legs...

DS has a couple of spots of eczema on his legs to. I get worried about it though because I'm scared of a relapse (he had terrible eczema ftom about 4 till 10 months old, and we fixed it with an elimiation diet).

My skin seems fine, but I feel tired all the time...

I obviously have plenty of reading to catch-up on so I'll see ya around...









Are you giving essential fatty acids, cod liver oil and evening primrose?

I don't think you are being obsessive, you have mother's intuition! Think about vitamin D levels too, they get lower in winter.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Jane: why is calcium ascorbate a no-no? I have been taking it myself. Oops!

Here is some info, more in that thread too:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=100

basically it's bad for immune system and has been connected to cancer.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
Jane, have you been on the SCD for almost a year now? Are you going to remain on it, or what are your plans?

Nope, just since Sept.

I've tried a few things and still can't handle advanced SCD foods like beans, very much. Or soaked grains which are "supposed" to be easier to digest. Or alcohol (which says to me I've still got bacterial issues producing alcohol on my own.) So yes, I plan to stay on it for sure. I'm in a rhythm, it's easy now and I've forgotten how to cook any other way!









I wonder if I'll not be able to go off the SCD until my system has finished dumping mercury from my filling removal last summer. Which means at least thru this year. I'm supposed to be starting chelation according to previous plans but just not sure about it...


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
ETAsk: Is butter (i.e., Land O' Lakes or similar) allowed on the SCD? I don't think I read anything about that. (Hope to get the book soon.)


Yes, see Legal/Illegal list here: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...llegal_a-c.htm


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
Jane, what minerals do you give ds? Are they a liquid, tablet, or what? Dd's doctors want her on a multi vitamin, and I've tried the Kirkman's capsule opened up and mixed in her food, but she usually refuses to eat whatever I mix it in.

Brainchild Ultra Sensitive minerals, not the vitamins... I don't like some of the vitamins in there: calcium ascorbate and beta carotene. I give C, A and D seperately to DS in the form I prefer. And I am afraid of B vitamin supplementation b/c of hyperactivity. DS doesn't need any encouragement on that front.

http://www.brainchildnutritionals.co...Ingrediex.html

It's a liquid and tastes great, well not great but pretty neutral flavored. You can order a sample bottle too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Nourishing Traditions says 117 is the highest temperature live foods should go, then the enzymes start to die off.

Although I have read other sources for yogurt which has said 120.


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## mommy2cias (Feb 6, 2006)

Hi, I'm new and my is spinning from all this information. I'm going to have to read it all another time b/c I have to shower and go to bed before my sick boy wakes up again.

My son is 3 yrs. 10 months and has some issues we need to deal with. One is that he's barely 27 pounds and 37" tall. He's barely on the growth charts and he gains weight very slowly. The other is behavorial(I'll have to expand on that at another time) and illnesses. He had several ear infections until we started taking him to the chiropracter in April 2005. He was scheduled to have tubes put in his ears, but we tried the chiro and it worked great. Unfortantly, he's all messed up already from all the antiobtics.

I bought the SCD book and am impatiently waiting to get it(and apparently it hasn't even shipped yet). I was referred here and to the SCD by Deborah(don't know her screen name yet).

Anyway, I'm extremely new at this and any information or insight or anything you can give me would be greatly appreciated. My dh is on board w/the diet, but I'm not sure how he'll react to me wanting to see a holistic prac. He doesn't like giving ds meds. much either, so I don't think he'll have too much of a problem w/it.

Right now ds has a possible sinus infection, fluid in his ears(which drained Fri. night) and a fever. Any ideas on what to do about all that??? I'm tempted to call the dr. in the morning, but I really want to avoid antibiotics if I can. BTW, the nearest health food store is over an hour away, but luckly my chiro is in the same town, and I plan on making ds a chiro appt. anyway.

Oh, and that's just him... Later I'll go into my possible yeast problems and dh's stomach problems.. We're just one messed up group.. LOL

Thanks!!!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Hi Janice! I don't have much info to give you as I'm a newbie at this as well. I am also waiting for my book to be delivered. (I should've ordered a new copy & would have had it by now!)

I started this diet Saturday. Should I be reacting to this already? Slight nausea & constipation?

DD likes her cooked fruit.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

I just found out that most of the yogurt starters have l. acidophilous, and my son needs a special d-lactate free yogurt starter that costs boucoo bucks to get....do you still think it is worth it to make the yogurt? Why is yogurt better than probiotics again?

If you go on a yeast free diet for six weeks, take GSE for ten days, take candex for a solid month 2 caps twice a day, and in two months you don't see any change....what does this mean? I feel like we really didn't see any "wows" from doing the yeast protocol...I even gave ds MCT liquid practically every day, even most days four times a day, for a month and nothing. Ds symptoms are still the same.

I'm wondering if I need to continue candex and MCT for another month or on a continual basis? Should I do another round of GSE? Ds just started probiotics this week.


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## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

I just wanted to say







Janice. I am so glad you are here. The mamas on this board have so much valuable info to share. Take your time, it is going to be quite a journey!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

How much do you all pay for almond flour? I paid like $14 per pound!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2cias*
Hi, I'm new and my is spinning from all this information. I'm going to have to read it all another time b/c I have to shower and go to bed before my sick boy wakes up again.

My son is 3 yrs. 10 months and has some issues we need to deal with. One is that he's barely 27 pounds and 37" tall. He's barely on the growth charts and he gains weight very slowly. The other is behavorial(I'll have to expand on that at another time) and illnesses. He had several ear infections until we started taking him to the chiropracter in April 2005. He was scheduled to have tubes put in his ears, but we tried the chiro and it worked great. Unfortantly, he's all messed up already from all the antiobtics.

I bought the SCD book and am impatiently waiting to get it(and apparently it hasn't even shipped yet). I was referred here and to the SCD by Deborah(don't know her screen name yet).

Anyway, I'm extremely new at this and any information or insight or anything you can give me would be greatly appreciated. My dh is on board w/the diet, but I'm not sure how he'll react to me wanting to see a holistic prac. He doesn't like giving ds meds. much either, so I don't think he'll have too much of a problem w/it.

Right now ds has a possible sinus infection, fluid in his ears(which drained Fri. night) and a fever. Any ideas on what to do about all that??? I'm tempted to call the dr. in the morning, but I really want to avoid antibiotics if I can. BTW, the nearest health food store is over an hour away, but luckly my chiro is in the same town, and I plan on making ds a chiro appt. anyway.

Oh, and that's just him... Later I'll go into my possible yeast problems and dh's stomach problems.. We're just one messed up group.. LOL

Thanks!!!









Janice

I can speak to gut and behavioral issues but don't have any experience with the sinus/ear infections. Take a look at the Sodium Ascorbate thread, try giving vitamin C at every meal and bedtime, it helps kill viruses and boost immune system. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=353318

I'd also give some vitamin A too, that's used up in the body very quickly with infections. But only if it's in the natural form from cod liver oil, not beta carotene or palmitate.

His weight and infections definately point to his needing some immune system support. Could he be celiac? What is he eating? Have you tried probiotics to balance his system from the antibx?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I started this diet Saturday. Should I be reacting to this already? Slight nausea & constipation?

Yes, die off reactions are commonly seen very quickly.

There is advice regarding constipation on the site under Knowledge Base
www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
I just found out that most of the yogurt starters have l. acidophilous, and my son needs a special d-lactate free yogurt starter that costs boucoo bucks to get....do you still think it is worth it to make the yogurt? Why is yogurt better than probiotics again?

If you go on a yeast free diet for six weeks, take GSE for ten days, take candex for a solid month 2 caps twice a day, and in two months you don't see any change....what does this mean? I feel like we really didn't see any "wows" from doing the yeast protocol...I even gave ds MCT liquid practically every day, even most days four times a day, for a month and nothing. Ds symptoms are still the same.

I'm wondering if I need to continue candex and MCT for another month or on a continual basis? Should I do another round of GSE? Ds just started probiotics this week.

Why does he need special starter? We use Progurt from www.GIProHealth.com which is dairy free L. casei strain, it's expensive, but it lasts a really long time b/c you only use 1/4 tsp. for 2 qts.

24 hr yogurt contains more probiotics in a teaspoon than in one capsule. The milk of the yogurt has also been shown to protect against stomach acid and carry the good bacteria down into the intestines where it needs to be.

All that and no yeast improvment means to me that the problem is not yeast, it could be bacterial (and I've heard that GSE makes bacterial things worse). Plus GSE kills off good bacteria too, probiotic should be a must have on this protocol.

Also you are just using enzymes at this point, not diet right? I couldn't do that, my gut was in too bad a shape, I needed to do the diet. Perhaps the foods are still not being completely broken down and continuing to feed the yeast/bacteria.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
How much do you all pay for almond flour? I paid like $14 per pound!

















land sakes where was that?

www.digestivewellness.com has it for around $6/lb I think. I used to order from them and then I got all weird about needing organic and now I make my own and soak the nuts too


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Yeah I know! It was at our local hf store. We have very little organic here and we're lucky to have this little store where I live.







I will definitely order from digestivewellness.com! I used both pounds just yesterday!

Ummm . . . came here to post another question and now my mind went







. . . oh yeah! I actually dusted off an old Cuisinart frozen yogurt/ice cream maker. Can I use that to make my yogurt? I read on one of the old threads about using a yogurt maker. . . Of course, I have no directions for it.









hehee - first chance to use that smilie.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Annikate, you are a
















No you cannot use a frozen yogurt maker to make yogurt!

My oven method hasn't failed me yet...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Ah


















Jane, I can't find your directions.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

You just like posting



















I so knew this was coming... here are yogurt instructions









http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...oghurt_scd.htm
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...rt_in_bulk.htm

I heat my electric oven to the lowest setting 150 degrees until it beeps that it's preheated, just to warm it up. Turn off oven. Someone else thinks ahead and just turns light on ahead of time while they are scalding/cooling the milk but since I usually make it from raw milk I don't have time or brains to do this.

Turn light bulb on. (If you have a gas oven, perhaps the pilot will be enough.)

Put in milk with starter at a temperature between 100-110. If you are using pasteurized milk, you need to scald it first by heating to 185 and then cooling back down to 110 before adding starter.

Keeping the bulb on is enough to keep the yogurt between 100-110 for 24 hrs. but some people have to add a higher watt bulb. I use glass jars and set them on a pizza stone, which helps retain the temp too.

Do a trial run with water in your jars first and check the temp every hr. for several hours. Check again after an overnight to make sure the water stays at the right temp. between 100-110. Then you are ready to make yogurt!

I love this method b/c I can make as much as I want and also make cow for me and goat for DS at same time. Or a small batch of our raw cream for ice cream


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Hello to everyone! Finally I've rejoined the land of the living. We've had so much sickness in our family, we just had to hunker down and deal...
Speaking of which...do ya'll think that my ds's possible asthma (Serious lung stuff every time he gets any type of upper resp. thingy) could be related to his gut in some fashion?

I also had another question for anyone... a normal, healthy gut breaks down and absorbs carrots and english peas...right?
Our dd (1 year) ate some cooked and they showed up in her diaper later that day UNCHANGED AT ALL!!!! YIKES! If I didn't know better, I'd swear she put them in her diaper instead of eating them. I think that this finally convinced dh that we all need to be on SCD. Thankfully she's still mostly breastfed.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Thank you Jane!









AmyD - I didn't mean to disregard your post. I'm going to experiment and try both ways. I just hope it doesn't come out like . . . . .


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I love this method b/c I can make as much as I want and also make cow for me and goat for DS at same time. Or a small batch of our raw cream for ice cream
You know I'm gonna have to ask about the raw cream next don't you?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Zanelee, ds doesn't break down carrots or peas, either, and I think it's at least paritally because he doesn't chew them much.
JaneS, thanks for the info about bad vitamin C -- what's the good kind? Sodium ascorbate? Ascorbic acid?


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## momofcutie (Jan 3, 2006)

I have Crohn's Disease and Irritable Bowel Syndrome (symptoms even when Crohn's is in remission) and my son has allergies, asthma, eczema, sensory integration issues, motor delays, and a mild form of autism spectrum disorder. I'd like to look into dietary changes, but I'm overwhelmed with all the information. (I don't even know if I'm posting in the right place!) Could someone please tell me what healing the gut (as it's used here) means?

Thanks!


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## snuffles (Apr 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2cias*
My son is 3 yrs. 10 months and has some issues we need to deal with. One is that he's barely 27 pounds and 37" tall. He's barely on the growth charts and he gains weight very slowly. The other is behavorial(I'll have to expand on that at another time) and illnesses. He had several ear infections until we started taking him to the chiropracter in April 2005. He was scheduled to have tubes put in his ears, but we tried the chiro and it worked great. Unfortantly, he's all messed up already from all the antiobtics.

essed up group.. LOL

Thanks!!!

Hi Janice. I mostly lurk on this thread. My almost 4 yr old dd has had gut issues off and on since she was about 2 (when she weaned). My dd sounds a lot like your son.. in fact, she will be 4 next month and weighs 27 lbs. I'm not sure how tall she is. She is on the growth charts but just barely (last time I took her to the dr it was around 5%). She has grown in height this past 6 months but has barely put on a pound. My other kids are small too but she is a little smaller than them, still. Anyway, you mentioned something about yeast and I wanted to just say that I have always thought that her problems were related to yeast. I had horrible thrush/yeast problems when she was a baby and kept passing it to her.

I had a question for the group. My dd's poops are always throwing me off. I have tried eliminating several different foods (in fact, she was GF for almost a year because it seemed to bother her). Right now, I know that if citrus foods bother her stomach, and if she eats a lot of oranges or something, it can give her diarrhea for a couple of weeks!. Also, small amounts of chocolate and dairy seem okay, but if she eats more it will upset her stomach as well. I seem to notice when I up her zinc intake, her helps her stools normalize again. Also, if she gets a stomach virus, she can have diarrhea for 2-3 weeks after that. Sometimes, she will have loose stools and I can't figure out what triggered it. Her poor gut sounds so damaged to me. Thankfully, she seems healthy otherwise (nothing more than normal viruses). I give her probiotics (have for a long time.)

I looked into the SCD diet a while back, and truthfully, it seems extremely difficult for our family to do all the way. I am willing to try some changes but the whole thing will just be too much for me right now. (and I thought having the whole family GF for a year was hard! I really admire you mamas!)

Sorry if I'm talking too much! Thanks for listening.

Side note-- I just noticed that this was my 1000th post!


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

momofcutie, healing the gut is for you! It means dealing with the irritable bowel, allergies, and autism issues, because they have shown a correlation between the brain and the gut. They have researched that many people with ibs, autism, dyslexia, add, etc. have gut issues like candida yeast, parasites, virus's, that play a crucial role in keeping them sick. Then, they found out that the proteins in gluten and casein also destroy the lining of the gut in some people. Which is why a lot of people are experimenting a trial of the gluten and casien free diet or other diets.

Quote:

Also you are just using enzymes at this point, not diet right? I couldn't do that, my gut was in too bad a shape, I needed to do the diet. Perhaps the foods are still not being completely broken down and continuing to feed the yeast/bacteria.
We are gluten and casein free. We cheat once a week with enzymes, though. Right now, we are learning about Sara's Diet, and we are going to go lutein free also. The amazing thing is that our son has already self protected his diet to eliminate most luteins, so it's really not too much of a leap for him to go lutein free. It will be harder for the rest of us, but we are all going to give lutein free a trial, because several of us feel or look worse on the GFCF diet, and I am thinking soy might be a big issue at play there, but also luteins in general.

I will be making the d-lactate free almond yogurt, and does anyone know if I can make tofu out of almonds or something other than soy?....I need a cottage cheese substitute that is not dairy or soy....


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

oh, I just read a reference that garlic, uva ursi, and lauricidin deal with bacteria.
I am concerned because garlic as an herb is powerful, and I have always heard not to use it, so we will just cook with it more. I heard that lauricidin tasted awful, so either I need a cap making machine with that, or maybe go with the uva ursi, unless anyone here knows a better way (homeopathic?) of dealing with bacteria.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Mat4mel





























:









congrats on one thousand posts!!!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Hi momofcutie & mel!

The ladies here are wonderful!









I am just starting this diet and really once you get a chance to read all the recipies, I think you might feel better about being able to stick to it.

I know I've experienced changes in myself and in dd over only the last 3 days.

DD has too. Today she *really* has allergy eyes.







She's also sneezing a lot which I know can be a result of food intolerances as well. She seems to feel fine and is making slow but steady progress in the sleep department.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Thank you Jane!









AmyD - I didn't mean to disregard your post. I'm going to experiment and try both ways. I just hope it doesn't come out like . . . . .










For the love of macaroni, I have absolutely no ego invested in that yogurt recipe







Personally, I use a yogurt maker


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

What would it mean if my children who have been gfcf for three months are developing deep dark circles under their eyes?


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## ikesmom (Oct 29, 2005)

I always see posts on enzymes but what multi or prenatal is good when doing SCD? I'm saying digestability wise? I spend too much on vits, supplements ect. at hfs, but I look on bottles at Costco and Walmart and see all kins of extra crap in them. I made the mistake of buying a pre-natal I have to take 4 times a day and I can taste it all day long


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## momofcutie (Jan 3, 2006)

Thanks for the welcome! So where do I start? What diet do you recommend we try first? I'd like to eliminate dairy, but it's hard to do without cheese!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AmyD*
For the love of macaroni, I have absolutely no ego invested in that yogurt recipe Personally, I use a yogurt maker
Tell me, tell me, what kind of yogurt maker? With 2 little ones running around I need the easiest way possible!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Tell me, tell me, what kind of yogurt maker? With 2 little ones running around I need the easiest way possible!


I have a eurocuisine, but I don't use it according to the directions. I have the lid propped open by two wood toys to keep the heat down. My yogurt is right around 99-105 degrees. Oh, and I don't put yogurt in the middle glass jar b/c it gets too hot in there.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I'm starting to get a little worried . . . dd's eyes look horrible. They look like they did when things were really bad.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
Hello to everyone! Finally I've rejoined the land of the living. We've had so much sickness in our family, we just had to hunker down and deal...
Speaking of which...do ya'll think that my ds's possible asthma (Serious lung stuff every time he gets any type of upper resp. thingy) could be related to his gut in some fashion?

I also had another question for anyone... a normal, healthy gut breaks down and absorbs carrots and english peas...right?
Our dd (1 year) ate some cooked and they showed up in her diaper later that day UNCHANGED AT ALL!!!! YIKES! If I didn't know better, I'd swear she put them in her diaper instead of eating them. I think that this finally convinced dh that we all need to be on SCD. Thankfully she's still mostly breastfed.











*Yes* re: asthma.

It's all about the immune system...and what is the gatekeeper of the immune system: your gut!









And what takes care of your gut (and all mucus lining of body, including sinuses) and actually produces some immunoglobulins: probiotics!
















I'm a little goofy tonight.

RE: peas and carrots
She's so young, her digestive enzymes are not fully in gear yet so don't be too, too worried, just vigilant


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
You know I'm gonna have to ask about the raw cream next don't you?









Cream is excellent for making yogurt, kind of a cross between sour cream and creme fraiche. Then making ice cream out of the yogurt so its less sour than using yogurt from milk b/c there's less lactose in cream so less lactic acid bacteria in the final product.

I'm a huge believer in raw milk, so we do get raw cream also from time to time.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
JaneS, thanks for the info about bad vitamin C -- what's the good kind? Sodium ascorbate? Ascorbic acid?

Bad? I'm confused. Ascorbic acid is fine just acidic, and you can get the runs from taking too much. (and the advice to take it to excess to prevent constipation is just evil, I did that once to "clean me out" and suffered greatly!)

Sodium ascorbate is ph neutral so you can take more in cases of viruses/colds/disease and it's gentler on stomach and bowels.

However, both should be balanced with bioflavonoids, the natural components of vitamin C in foods. They keep vitamin C in the body longer and helps prevent deficiencies of the other C factors. Really the best source of C is food, like all nutrients, b/c its got the cofactors.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momofcutie*
I have Crohn's Disease and Irritable Bowel Syndrome (symptoms even when Crohn's is in remission) and my son has allergies, asthma, eczema, sensory integration issues, motor delays, and a mild form of autism spectrum disorder. I'd like to look into dietary changes, but I'm overwhelmed with all the information. (I don't even know if I'm posting in the right place!) Could someone please tell me what healing the gut (as it's used here) means?

Thanks!

Oh you are so in the right place! Welcome!









Start here to read about the Specific Carbohydrate Diet.

Beginners: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i.../beginners.htm
Science Behind the Diet: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i..._the_diet2.htm

Using the SCD for Autism, see "New Chapter About Autism" link
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ism/autism.htm

www.pecanbread.com is specifically for kids using the SCD for autism and has advice for dairy free version.

Read this book, "Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Conditions"
www.enzymestuff.com
it's really fantastic not just for ASD but all digestive disorders, behavioral issues, migraines, sensory, etc etc... Has the best description of leaky gut and understanding the digestive function that I've read thus far. So far I seem to be the only one raving about it. Is anyone else reading?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Yay Jane! You're here.








I'm starting to get a little pi**ed about my book not being delivered yet. I hate going through this without having read it yet.

When starting this diet is it normal for symptoms to get worse? (DD's eyes.) Would it still be die off even though I'm not doing any acidopilous or yogurt yet? (Just the diet and enzymes.) She really looks terrible again today. Could it be something in the diet that I should stay away from? I'm keeping a food log & just don't know.

BTW, my oven couldn't hold the right temp for my yogurt







so I"m going to try with another batch tomorrow. DH made me a yogurt maker!







So far it's holding at *exactly* 100 degrees. I'm dying to try it.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mat4mel*
I had a question for the group. My dd's poops are always throwing me off. I have tried eliminating several different foods (in fact, she was GF for almost a year because it seemed to bother her). Right now, I know that if citrus foods bother her stomach, and if she eats a lot of oranges or something, it can give her diarrhea for a couple of weeks!. Also, small amounts of chocolate and dairy seem okay, but if she eats more it will upset her stomach as well. I seem to notice when I up her zinc intake, her helps her stools normalize again. Also, if she gets a stomach virus, she can have diarrhea for 2-3 weeks after that. Sometimes, she will have loose stools and I can't figure out what triggered it. Her poor gut sounds so damaged to me. Thankfully, she seems healthy otherwise (nothing more than normal viruses). I give her probiotics (have for a long time.)

I looked into the SCD diet a while back, and truthfully, it seems extremely difficult for our family to do all the way. I am willing to try some changes but the whole thing will just be too much for me right now. (and I thought having the whole family GF for a year was hard! I really admire you mamas!)

Sorry if I'm talking too much! Thanks for listening.

Side note-- I just noticed that this was my 1000th post!

Hi Mel









The issues in your DD sound familiar to me.... how my digestive problems surfaced. I never really saw a direct correlation that I was "allergic" to anything, so thus the entire gut should be viewed holistically... as you say, the health or damage of it. For me, one serving or a few days of a certain thing would not set me off. But then all of a sudden, my system would be totally out of whack and I'd have to go to great lengths to rein it in again.

So learning about the gut and intestinal flora balance this made more sense. Meaning if you eat a little sugar, the gut might be able to handle it, but eat it everyday or a lot at once and it starts going crazy, yeast and bad bacteria overgrow if one's system is geared that way.

Zinc is an EXCELLENT supplement for a damaged gut. One benefit to newbies wading through a lot of our old posts, there's so much the we forget to mention.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
We are gluten and casein free. We cheat once a week with enzymes, though.

Okay, so he is probably eating sugar and corn and rice and potatoes... which can ferment in the gut and feed yeast/bacteria if he is not breaking them all down?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
Right now, we are learning about Sara's Diet, and we are going to go lutein free also. The amazing thing is that our son has already self protected his diet to eliminate most luteins, so it's really not too much of a leap for him to go lutein free. It will be harder for the rest of us, but we are all going to give lutein free a trial, because several of us feel or look worse on the GFCF diet, and I am thinking soy might be a big issue at play there, but also luteins in general.

I will be making the d-lactate free almond yogurt, and does anyone know if I can make tofu out of almonds or something other than soy?....I need a cottage cheese substitute that is not dairy or soy....









I do not even have the energy to read that Sara's Diet, ugh. I know my DS had issues with beta carotene, being able to break it down maybe. And it makes more sense when you think about how it's the gut bacteria that breaks down the bc into vitamin A. And lutein too? OY.

Have you checked Pecanbread recipes, I know there is a nut yogurt recipe and then maybe dripping it? What do you need a cc substitute for?

Tell me about this d-lactate free thing again and why you are doing it?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
oh, I just read a reference that garlic, uva ursi, and lauricidin deal with bacteria.
I am concerned because garlic as an herb is powerful, and I have always heard not to use it, so we will just cook with it more. I heard that lauricidin tasted awful, so either I need a cap making machine with that, or maybe go with the uva ursi, unless anyone here knows a better way (homeopathic?) of dealing with bacteria.

Biocidin is recommended for bacteria but has garlic, tiny amount though.

Coconut oil has natural lauric acid that's in Lauricidin and tastes fantastic. My current favorite is Wilderness Family Naturals centrifuged but Mountain Rose Herbs has a gallon for a ridiculous price of $28 or something. I think FireFaery was going to try it.

We are going the homeopathic route now, waiting for appt. I'm so confused with everything and praying that will help. DS is stabilized I guess, some things are better, but some are worse.

*For all you BF'ing moms out there nursing your kids with damaged guts: Keep feeding your babes as long as you can!* Even with my own damaged gut, my breastmilk was doing so much for my DS, he really regressed after weaning.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
For the love of macaroni, I have absolutely no ego invested in that yogurt recipe







Personally, I use a yogurt maker

















She just wanted to post that darned







smilie again!









Hey, don't mention macaroni here, it's verboten!!!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
What would it mean if my children who have been gfcf for three months are developing deep dark circles under their eyes?

Lack of minerals.

That plasma cysteine thing that Andrew Cutler talks about.

Die off.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ikesmom*
I always see posts on enzymes but what multi or prenatal is good when doing SCD? I'm saying digestability wise? I spend too much on vits, supplements ect. at hfs, but I look on bottles at Costco and Walmart and see all kins of extra crap in them. I made the mistake of buying a pre-natal I have to take 4 times a day and I can taste it all day long









Ick is right... not sure. Both websites have recommended supplements I think:
www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info
www.pecanbread.com

I always took Rainbow Light prenatal b/c it was a whole food sourced vitamin and thus more easily digested, but I have no idea what else is in it for ingredients.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momofcutie*
Thanks for the welcome! So where do I start? What diet do you recommend we try first? I'd like to eliminate dairy, but it's hard to do without cheese!









Most cheeses and 24 hr. yogurt is allowed in the Specific Carbohydrate Diet.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Yay Jane! You're here.








I'm starting to get a little pi**ed about my book not being delivered yet. I hate going through this without having read it yet.

When starting this diet is it normal for symptoms to get worse? (DD's eyes.) Would it still be die off even though I'm not doing any acidopilous or yogurt yet? (Just the diet and enzymes.) She really looks terrible again today. Could it be something in the diet that I should stay away from? I'm keeping a food log & just don't know.

BTW, my oven couldn't hold the right temp for my yogurt







so I"m going to try with another batch tomorrow. DH made me a yogurt maker!







So far it's holding at *exactly* 100 degrees. I'm dying to try it.









I know, I came back to this thread hopping!

Yes, the SCD can cause die off, and so can enzymes. I got die off from both and my gut was about halfway healed by that time.

Can you try to get her to drink more water? Pecanbread suggests epsom salts baths for die off for little ones. The body absorbs magnesium which is detoxing and calming too. Although they were a bit much for my DS, maybe I used too much at first.

What a lovely DH you have! How did he make it?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

DD is still primarily b'fed so she doesn't really drink water. She plays around with her sippy cup but most of it ends up on her shirt.









I will try the epsom salts. What do you mean they were too much for your ds? How could you tell?

DH is an engineer and can build most anything. He used a simple styrofoam cooler and a light bulb fixture w/a hmmm . . .15 watt I think nightlight bulb. And a meat thermometer stuck through the front so I can see it from the outside.







We just put some tin foil in the bottom to see if we could raise the temp a couple of degrees.

Oh, and how did you know you were experiencing die off? I had an awful day today. Felt like







most of the day. Upset tummy but hungry too at the same time.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AmyD*
_For the love of macaroni, I have absolutely no ego invested in that yogurt recipe Personally, I use a yogurt maker_

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
She just wanted to post that darned







smilie again!
Yes, AmyD, that's right. Come on now, keep up! Was going to explain (to have another chance at the smilie) but thought it'd be overkill.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Just wanted to say that most of my best info came form Enzymes for Autism and other Neurological Conditions . I'm laughing about Jane's post about it because I just gave it to my SIL and came here to rave again about it. It's really great. Her website's good too, but the book is really fabulous. I found that reading it with BTVC really gave me a very clear picture.
Jane, can you recommend good books/sites to learn more about minerals, where they're found (dietarily) and what deficiencies look like/how they manifest? TIA.
I found pasta that I think is legal! I have to go back and check the book...I know lentils are okay, but preparation probably matters in which case it's out. The brand is Papadini, and it's just lentil flour, water and some salt. What do you think? If it's legal...man. That would open some doors.
For magnesium...we use naturalcalm by natural vitality. I can always tell when the kids need it. It's really quite helpful for us. It's a powder that you put in water and it tastes lemonny. We gave it with enzymes, and had great results.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Yes, AmyD, that's right. Come on now, keep up! Was going to explain (to have another chance at the smilie) but thought it'd be overkill.

















You mamas are so funny. And Jane, can you step away from the computer for a moment







Everytime I refresh my e-mail, I have like 5 more e-mail announcements from this thread


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Any ideas for administering cod liver oil? DS doesn't like the liquids, and the softchews are so expensive, and anyway they probably have illegals in them. I tried juice, that didn't go over well.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

We use a tincture bottle. My kids will take anything that way.


----------



## mommy2cias (Feb 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Any ideas for administering cod liver oil? DS doesn't like the liquids, and the softchews are so expensive, and anyway they probably have illegals in them. I tried juice, that didn't go over well.

I use a medicine dropper. DS takes it w/no problems. One of those kind that you get at the pharmacy that has the bulb end on it. Works great. You can squirt it into the side of their mouth so it mostly by-passes the taste buds.
http://a1468.g.akamai.net/f/1468/580.../80299/300.jpg
One of those things..


----------



## mommy2cias (Feb 6, 2006)

Finally read most of the book tonight and now I have some questions. bear w/me, it's almost midnight and I really should be in bed.

1. If there is no diarrhea at the begining, can we use fresh apple juice? We have a wonderful juicer, so would it be okay to throw some apples in it and give it to my son?

2. Does it matter if the kid won't eat soup? Really, he has never liked soup. What if the kid won't eat any of the stuff offered? I know there are a few things there my son will eat, but I'm not sure about all of it. I, for one, don't like cottage cheese, but I guess I'll force it down, b/c I'm going to do this diet too.

3. What if we eat out(which we do often)? I thought I saw something about it somewhere..

4. What about preschool? Do you send snacks w/your kids? The preschool provides all meals/snacks, but ds is only there for morning snack. He goes M-F 8:30-12.

5. Should I wait until he is over his cold before I start the introduction diet? He's had a cold for a while and I'm hoping it will go away by itself w/out turning into bronchitis again. ugh.

6. What kind of yogurt maker do you use? Where would I find a good one?

7. Oh, and I really need an answer to this one.. What can I give him to replace the rice milk he currently drinks? He *has* to have a cup of rice milk(used to be cows milk, but we took him off that and other dairy products) every night before bed. He's been drinking the rice milk since April or May of '05.

Any other info. you can give me would be great. I'll be cleaning out my junk food filled cuboards tomorrow and making room in my freezer(which is also full of junk).

ps. this was x-posted on the pecanbread.com yahoo board if anyone goes there.


----------



## momofcutie (Jan 3, 2006)

Jane,

Thanks for all the links!







It looks like I have a lot of reading to do...









It looks like the SCD is intended for those with the digestive problems I have, and for those with autism. What about allergies, asthma, and eczema? This is the first I've heard of the SCD. Usually I hear about GF/CF or the Feingold Diet. Would the SCD be more beneficial to me and my son than these other 2? I'd like to make similar changes for both of us, rather than trying two different (difficult) diets if I can. But to be honest, I'm kinda overwhelmed with it all right now!









BTW, I was just diagnosed with GERD too! (Great, like I need another medical problem...)









Again, THANKS!


----------



## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Read this book, "Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Conditions"
www.enzymestuff.com
it's really fantastic not just for ASD but all digestive disorders, behavioral issues, migraines, sensory, etc etc... Has the best description of leaky gut and understanding the digestive function that I've read thus far. So far I seem to be the only one raving about it. Is anyone else reading?

Hmm, I just looked it up... sounds interesting. Maybe this is what I need to read since I can't understand why my body would not be producing enough enzymes to digest the food I eat.


----------



## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
Right now, we are learning about Sara's Diet, and we are going to go lutein free also.

Hi, what is Sara's diet? Haven't heard of that one before.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *momofcutie*
BTW, I was just diagnosed with GERD too! (Great, like I need another medical problem...)
DD2 has GERD which is what led me here!


----------



## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

sara's diet is a diet low or free in luteins. I am looking into diets for my son. He self eliminates a lot of luteins anyway. I was told to look at what he self eliminated for clues, so that is what lead me to think luteins. The oxylate diet is because of his fibromyalgia, migraines, and pain....maybe that diet would reduce his severe pain. So his diet may end up being low lutein, low oxylate, on top of GFSFCF...and considering trials of eliminating potato and rice....and corn eventually when we find replacement foods all while using enzymes as much as we can.

BTW, Adults can have GERD???? I thought GERD was something only babies got?

I wonder if we should have our son checked out for GERD!?!
My son vomits a lot and is nauseous a lot. He might have acid reflux too, which he calls "throwing up in his mouth"...sorry if that is an overshare








Are those symptoms of GERD????

Is the awesome book on migraines Enzymes and Autism by Karen DeFelice? Would I want to buy this or would checking it out at the library and reading it once give me all the information I would need?


----------



## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

I just read back a few pages and missed one of your posts Jane

Yes, our son does eat potato, rice and corn....with enzymes...but I would imagine these are causing him problems since he tested allergic to them.

I would have been using the pecanbread nut yogurt reciepe, except of course, nuts are high in oxalates...along with chocolate, ginger, baked beans, tofu, potatoes, and tomato sause...I don't think he can do the low oxalate diet because everything he eats is high in oxalates, but then again, maybe that is his problem, maybe that is contributing to his pain. I am not sure how these diet trials are going to work. The Cottage Cheese replacement is for lasagna...and cassaroles.

Wow...this diet thing is compicated.


----------



## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

On the D-lactate free probiotic. I fed my son Klaire labs probiotic and the whites of his already chronically irritated eyes turned yellow and his poop turned green!!!!! The autism merc list folks are so smart because they pinpointed this right away to be a reaction to D-lactate which is found in l. acidophilous and certain strains of probiotic....

So...for ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY BUCKS...with shipping we purchased a d-lactate free probiotic, and ds is handling it just fine...









but like GULP! on the cost of it...maybe the bottle will last a long long time!

Ds friend wrecked his car and fixed it for the cost of this little bottle of probiotic. We were joking about that the other day.....


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
I wonder if we should have our son checked out for GERD!?!My son vomits a lot and is nauseous a lot. He might have acid reflux too, which he calls "throwing up in his mouth"...sorry if that is an overshare
Are those symptoms of GERD????
How old is your ds? That sounds like GERD to me. Pediatricians usually can diagnose by what you tell them about the symptoms. (Of course there is silent reflux too . . . )
DD has had it since birth AND her sleeping is well . . . what sleeping?







Both of these things contributed to what led me here. Plus her VERY allergy-looking eyes.







She looks pitiful again today. It's starting to freak me out but I'm trying to remain patient and steadfast.

Quote:

Wow...this diet thing is compicated.
And yeah, I know! I'm having a tough time trying to figure out what's going on w/dd. It's bad enough that she's intolerant to what *I'm* eating, but now I'm also introducing solids too which makes it even more







! I can't delay them either because SHE'S HUNGRY and makes it well known.

Would you guys who know more about this advise me on what to feed her?
So far on the SCD it's been:
bananas
peaches
pears
applesauce

Are peaches a no no to begin with? I'm wondering if that's contributing to her pitiful allergy look????? PLUS, she's been constipated.








Thanks!


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok several people have suggested I post here and I finally got up the guts to do it.

I haven't read much here, been too busy reading books trying to figure out what it going on with my dd (and myself) since the Dr's I've been to so far can't help much.

I'm going to try to be brief as possible.

I have endometriosis. It hasn't been bad since before I conceived dd but lately it has gotten bad again. Naturopath thinks it is my bowels and not endo causing the pain but it feels just like the old endo pain so I'm not sure.

My mother has dx'ed herself with possible celiacs disease (huge problem with gluten, having trouble getting tested properly). CD can be hereditary.

My dd was on antibiotics for the first 2-3 days of her life. We had a couple of mild brushes with thrush but nothing bad except that her diaper rashes are always yeast rashes and she has had one continuously for about a year. Allergic reaction to nystantin so we treat it with oral acidopholis, 2 homeopathics for yeast perscribed by np, and vinegar in her nightly bath. This keeps it in check but doesn't get rid of it completely.

When dd was tiny dr thought she had a dairy allergy so I quit all dairy for 7 months or so. Then we offered her some at some point and she seemed fine but I had major gi issues with it so I quit it again (I can have goat, sheep, waterbuffalo and raw cow dairy w/o gi issues). DD broke out in a rash from tomatoes and from citrus when we first started solids so we avoided those for a while but then one day she got into the clemantines and ate two and was fine. Then last week she had two again and broke out in her diaper area with a terrible looking rash so we are back off citrus again.

3 weeks ago I decided to try gluten free for both of us. After about a week w/o gluten we got some w/o realizing it in a marinade. We both got congested sinuses and I felt like I had the flu (don't know about dd). 2 weeks after quitting gluten I felt terrific, better than in a very long time. That only lasted a few days though.

DD is 2. She nurses every 1-2 hours round the clock. I am becoming more and more convinced that this is because she doesn't feel right and nursing makes her feel better. (don't offer don't refuse, becoming a moving target etc do nothing to slow down her nursing). I am happy to keep nursing her since this is what she needs but I also want to figure out how to help her feel right again. Plus we are ttc #2 and I'm nervous that if I do get pg and it is painful to bf I won't be able to meet her need while keeping my sanity (it is already difficult in the 2ww every month). That and I wouldn't mind getting my sleep in longer than 1-2 hour chunks once again.

We currently both take a multivitamin, fish oil, acidopholis, I'm taking milk thistle to cleanse my liver. In an attempt to kill off the yeast we have both quit dried fruit, sugar, foods made w/yeast, fruit juice,fermented foods, I'm trying to quit my caffinated tea, and have cut way back on dairy, fruit, I'm drawing a blank right now on the rest.

I'm considering doing an elimination diet to see if it is an allergy problem or a yeast problem except that I don't eat red meat so 2 weeks on turkey 3 meals a day sounds like torture.

Help! My np has helped me so much in the past and I am very frustrated that he doesn't seem to be able to help this time. I wonder if we just need some new eyes on the problem...

Oh the books I have read recently
Wheat free Worry free
Endometriosis a guide to healing through nutrition
Nourishing Traditions
Anther Native nutritions book I forget the name of
Feast without Yeast

I know this was a ton. If you can wade through it all and just give ideas about even one point I would be very grateful.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Ignore this. I think I figured out what happened.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Patty,
That is great that you already know so much about what you and dd can and can't tolerate! I am still learning about dd (who's nursing mostly and just starting solids) and it is very difficult.

Re: the elimination diet - - yes, it IS torture. At least I found it to be so. I began with turkey, rice and broccoli.







AFter no change we realized dd couldn't tolerate rice OR broccoli and we suspect that after so much time of my eating turkey, that began to bother her too. So . . . here we are.

I know that you will find a TON of information through these ladies!







I'm finding this process to be a relief but also difficult. I'm trying to be patient and hopefully I will be able to post some success stories in the future.


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## momofcutie (Jan 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*

BTW, Adults can have GERD???? I thought GERD was something only babies got?

I wonder if we should have our son checked out for GERD!?!
My son vomits a lot and is nauseous a lot. He might have acid reflux too, which he calls "throwing up in his mouth"...sorry if that is an overshare








Are those symptoms of GERD????

Well, I was just diagnosed with it, so I don't know much about it. (I don't even know the difference between acid reflux and GERD.) But this seems to be a good link with general information.

http://www.gerd.com/faq/gerd-faq.htm

My symptoms were mainly having problems with food and pills getting stuck in my throat at night and feeling nauseated until I ate something in the morning.
I was given Prevacid a couple weeks ago and I haven't had a pill get stuck since I started it.

But I've also just been diagnosed with obstructive sleep apnea and reactive airway disease (all of this within the past month), so I'm worried I might actually have some narrowing or something going on up there related to Crohn's Disease. (It can affect any part of the digestive system, but mostly affects the small and large intestines.) I wonder if all these diagnoses are related and my regular doctor is missing something. Unfortunately, I think I need to have an endoscopy.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok I have read this whole thread. I'm very confused about a few things.

Is scd good for yeast? If so what about all the fruit on it?
It seems like the begining diets listed on those two sites are primarilly protein foods. What veggies/fruits are allowed at first?
What kind of enzymes can I give to dd who is 2?
I have her taking gummy bear vitamins, are these bad? (some natural free of everything bad for you brand that I can't currently remember)

Right now eating from a short list sounds easier than what we are doing currently but I'm sure I won't feel that way a week into it.

Do any of you ever eat out? We eat out at least once a week with friends. Is that going to be an option any more?

Is cod liver oil better than fish oils? Should we be getting both? One or the other? What about epo? I tried that for a while because it is supposed to help with endo pain but it didn't help (although cod liver oil did) so I quit taking it.

I think that is enough for now...


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Patty, I think some may eat out on SCD, but we do not, since you don't know what's in stuff and since you basically have to order off the menu, make up your own combos (like steamed broccoli with plain chicken breast, no bread or pasta or rice or potatoes ugh!). Oh, and as far as an elimination diet, I tried it for a few days, and couldn't stand it. I don't know how anyone does, really. There are some oddball diets out there, like the paleo diet, that supposedly help to deal with intolerances easier, but they take planning and cost big bucks because you really have to hunt to find the foods they allow (like lamb and other unusual foods).

I am still worried about all kinds of issues, like ds's and my tooth decay, migraines (mine -- the yogurt seems to do it, unfortunately), dark circles under our eyes, and my ongoing mental fog and fatigue. But I really haven't found another diet that I want to try at this point. I think I need to find a better homeopath, the one I've been using is 2000 miles away and is kind of not really helping that much.

When I was having my teeth cleaned today (root planing, for my peridontal disease), the hygienist said it seemed like I was malnourished, since I have so many cavities (8 or something). She suggested a nutritionist. Argh! I still sometimes wonder whether I have mild celiac -- I've never had a test for it, but wheat definitely causes me asthma symptoms. Would a naturopath be able to order a test for it?


----------



## RedAnt (May 5, 2005)

My exclusively BF 10 mo DD is having food allergy problems. I've been reading lots of posts and learning over the last couple of weeks. Maybe I'm getting too much information though, because I'm really getting overwhelmed! I'll try to be brief.

I've had dairy issues (lactose intolerance? milk protein allergy?) my entire life. I haven't completely avoided dairy until the last several months though. I was able to tolerate some cheeses okay. While pregnant I felt like I could tolerate other dairy better, so I was eating quite a bit of it. Now I'm learning that was probably bad for my DD.









DD was colicky for 4-5 hours in the middle of the night for the first few months. She had chiropractic adjustments, a couple of craniosacral therapy sessions, and I eliminated dairy. Perhaps those helped or maybe she just grew out of it. However, she almost always had green poop 10-12 times a day, bad cradle cap for a while, on and off eczema, and often anus ring rashes. I tried eliminating various things one or two at a time, but that wasn't helping.

After the holidays, I finally started an elimination diet. Now her poop is usually yellow. She is absolutely disinterested in solid food. Every time I re-introduce something into my diet, it seems to bother her and green poop returns. Eggs = rash over most of body and back-arching, painful gas. Corn = thick spit up (usually never spits up). Wheat = painful gas, scratching, very squirmy all night. Now she has a bad anus ring from I don't know what. I've noticed reactions myself as well, usually bloating cramps and gas. I'm losing too much weight and DD is getting dark circles under her eyes. I have a super fast metabolism and DD is HN, and I find it really difficult to prepare creative meals.

I'm tired, hungry, discouraged, and obsessed with trying to get this figured out (hence the 4:00 a.m. post!) Clearly we need some gut healing, but I don't know where to start. SCD and NT seem to use a lot of eggs and dairy. Please share your mama wisdom!

BTW, DD is happy 99% of the time and ~20 pounds, but I don't think she has gained any weight in the last month or so. No worries about her development. Homebirthed, no vax.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Patty,

I know this doesn't begin to answer all your questions, on the gluten free, have you looked for hidden gluten in soap, shampoo, and other products?....sounds like you could be getting hidden gluten.

DID any of you hear the latest, that MCDonalds fries are NOT gluten free? Not that they were healthy anyhow. But it seems they lied the whole time and contain gluten!!!!!

It is kind of normal to go through a withdrawl and feel worse at first, and feel really crappy if you accidentally get gluten!! I recieved a lot of support from my local celiac sprue support group, even though we aren't celiac, they have all kinds of ideas for where hidden sources can be.

I would feed a 2 year old houston's chewable afp peptizyme, zyme prime, and I just heard they are coming out with a chewable no phenol. The afp is given with gluten, casien, and soy. The zyme prime is given with carbs and fats, the no phenol is given with every meal and juice drink.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Hey ladies! I have alot to say and will post more later. But I just started a thread in meal planning (under N&GE) for SCD meals. Hopefully we can all help each other out and keep menus exciting! I'll be back.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I will try the epsom salts. What do you mean they were too much for your ds? How could you tell?

Oh, and how did you know you were experiencing die off? I had an awful day today. Felt like







most of the day. Upset tummy but hungry too at the same time.

They caused more loose stool in DS... when Mag. is not fully absorbed by body, the rest is dumped out through the stool.

Die off is hard to pinpoint sometimes, and many people do have individual reactions. But when these types of diets are started, it's almost a given that it will happen!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Just wanted to say that most of my best info came form Enzymes for Autism and other Neurological Conditions . I'm laughing about Jane's post about it because I just gave it to my SIL and came here to rave again about it. It's really great. Her website's good too, but the book is really fabulous. I found that reading it with BTVC really gave me a very clear picture.
Jane, can you recommend good books/sites to learn more about minerals, where they're found (dietarily) and what deficiencies look like/how they manifest? TIA.
I found pasta that I think is legal! I have to go back and check the book...I know lentils are okay, but preparation probably matters in which case it's out. The brand is Papadini, and it's just lentil flour, water and some salt. What do you think? If it's legal...man. That would open some doors.









well then maybe other people will read the book then! It really is very comprehensive.

No re: minerals, I'm currently researching myself... homework from MT. The Nutrition/Immunology 101 mammoth post in Vaccinations is a good place to start.

Re: lentil pasta
Lentils and beans need to be soaked first so probably not









Which can I rant for a minute here? Apparently official SCD position on nuts is NOT to soak them b/c it will increase mold. However, beans and lentils are soaked...

Makes no sense.

So speaking of minerals, I try to soak all our nuts to remove phytates.. which bind to minerals and prevent their absorption. And inhibit digestive enzymes too.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*







You mamas are so funny. And Jane, can you step away from the computer for a moment







Everytime I refresh my e-mail, I have like 5 more e-mail announcements from this thread









Hee, hee... well get ready, it's another posting party tonight. Was away all night last night and all day today (friends house, then went into the aquarium). Gotta catch up!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2cias*
Finally read most of the book tonight and now I have some questions. bear w/me, it's almost midnight and I really should be in bed.

1. If there is no diarrhea at the begining, can we use fresh apple juice? We have a wonderful juicer, so would it be okay to throw some apples in it and give it to my son?

2. Does it matter if the kid won't eat soup? Really, he has never liked soup. What if the kid won't eat any of the stuff offered? I know there are a few things there my son will eat, but I'm not sure about all of it. I, for one, don't like cottage cheese, but I guess I'll force it down, b/c I'm going to do this diet too.

5. Should I wait until he is over his cold before I start the introduction diet? He's had a cold for a while and I'm hoping it will go away by itself w/out turning into bronchitis again. ugh.

6. What kind of yogurt maker do you use? Where would I find a good one?

7. Oh, and I really need an answer to this one.. What can I give him to replace the rice milk he currently drinks? He *has* to have a cup of rice milk(used to be cows milk, but we took him off that and other dairy products) every night before bed. He's been drinking the rice milk since April or May of '05.

ps. this was x-posted on the pecanbread.com yahoo board if anyone goes there.

Pecanbread is great, I do read it when I get a chance. I'll defer to them on the apple juice and other questions, but here's my 2 cents...

As far as soup goes... the bone broths are very healing. And contain a TON of minerals. It is very worth the time investment. I think I heard that one cup of properly made bone broth contains as much calcium as a quart of milk. All in easy to absorb electrolyte form.

I know how hard it is to get a kid to eat something... what used to work for us is reducing the broths down by boiling them into a sauce and serving them over the shredded meats. I make chicken, beef and lamb. The lamb is my favorite.

Nut milks are the first form of nuts you should try, and butters. Wait on the flours a bit. So perhaps homemade nut milk with honey will be acceptable to your DS. Then maybe you can try the goat yogurt. Yogurt as the last thing at night would be great for the good bacteria to set up shop.

You don't have to eat the farmer's cheese/yogurt combo on the Intro Diet, you can just omit. Or try a baked version that's in the book. And the cheesecake (run for a long long time in blender to make smooth, it tends to be grainy.)


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Ok-I am reading and reading, and wonder if any of you can tell me where to start. I know my family has yeast issues and maybe even food allergies. We eat "healthy" and "organic" mostly vegetarian, few to no processed food. But we rely on grains for most of our meals-rice/beans, pasta, breads. I don't know where to start-looking into NT and the SCD, reading about suppliments and enzymes-it's just overwhelming. I appreciate any ideas and attempts to point me in the right direction! Thank you!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momofcutie*
Jane,

Thanks for all the links!







It looks like I have a lot of reading to do...









It looks like the SCD is intended for those with the digestive problems I have, and for those with autism. What about allergies, asthma, and eczema? This is the first I've heard of the SCD. Usually I hear about GF/CF or the Feingold Diet. Would the SCD be more beneficial to me and my son than these other 2? I'd like to make similar changes for both of us, rather than trying two different (difficult) diets if I can. But to be honest, I'm kinda overwhelmed with it all right now!









BTW, I was just diagnosed with GERD too! (Great, like I need another medical problem...)









Again, THANKS!









Yes, I do think the SCD will be much more beneficial to changing the gut flora, and thus the immune system than just GF/CF or Feingold. I've cured myself of 3 autoimmune conditions: IBS, interstitial cystitis and acne by healing my gut. *The gut is your immune system!*

The SCD is hard, I totally understand. Remember I'm working on going on 2 years of this.. not the SCD but that's when I started our first Elmination Diet. It takes time to make changes and learn what is going on. Aren't you lucky I went there before you ... !?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Something I've been thinking about for a while now.
Not sure if I have the guts







to post in Allergies Forum... yet.

So give me feedback on this, I'll try to explain my thoughts.

*I now think Elimination Diets are Harmful.*

They advance the theory that you just need to take out things from your diet as opposed to putting imporant nutrients in: probiotics, minerals, etc. to heal your immune system.

I know my diet was deficient when I did the Elim. Diet. Think of the top allergens (wheat, dairy, eggs, nuts, fish, soy). Those are some pretty healthy foods with important nutrients (well with the exception of soy







).

So I've been looking back at all we've been through. And thinking about important threads lately here at MDC:
*
Prepping for Pregnancy*
The crucial nature of superior nutrition and immune system in building a healthy baby.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=398509

*Nutrition and BFing*
If your diet is not excellent, neither is your milk.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=343188

*Are Allergies Really Allergies*
When I first started looking into gut healing instead of just Elmination Diets to fix all this.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=295112

*Nutrition and Immunology 101*
How hard it is to construct a healthy diet in today's world.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=406983

*Causes of Autism*
Exactly what a deficient diet and immune system can and does result in.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=367180

All of this impresses upon me that the problem is much larger than even "doing a special diet".

I so know newbies do NOT want to hear this right now! But maybe you can make some better choices with this information too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
Hmm, I just looked it up... sounds interesting. Maybe this is what I need to read since I can't understand why my body would not be producing enough enzymes to digest the food I eat.

Yes, you do! It's a great explanation of the digestive tract. All about how the body makes enzymes, a lot of them are in the lining of the small intestine... the fingerlike projections called villi make the disaccharidases, to digest disaccharides (the foods we are taking out on the SCD b/c they are fermenting undigested in the gut and feeding yeast/bacteria).


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
Is the awesome book on migraines Enzymes and Autism by Karen DeFelice? Would I want to buy this or would checking it out at the library and reading it once give me all the information I would need?

Yes, that is the awesome book









I keep referring to mine, but there is a lot of info on her site and her Yahoo Group. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/EnzymesandAutism/

But not about the background on behavioral and sensory issues and how the gut effects those.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
On the D-lactate free probiotic. I fed my son Klaire labs probiotic and the whites of his already chronically irritated eyes turned yellow and his poop turned green!!!!! The autism merc list folks are so smart because they pinpointed this right away to be a reaction to D-lactate which is found in l. acidophilous and certain strains of probiotic....

So...for ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY BUCKS...with shipping we purchased a d-lactate free probiotic, and ds is handling it just fine...









but like GULP! on the cost of it...maybe the bottle will last a long long time!

Ds friend wrecked his car and fixed it for the cost of this little bottle of probiotic. We were joking about that the other day.....









OMG, that is ridiculous, do you have a link for the solid gold probiotic?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Would you guys who know more about this advise me on what to feed her?
So far on the SCD it's been:
bananas
peaches
pears
applesauce

Are peaches a no no to begin with? I'm wondering if that's contributing to her pitiful allergy look????? PLUS, she's been constipated.








Thanks!

I know it's really, really hard!

She's only on BM and fruit and she's constipated? Yeast and bacterial issues can cause constip. too, not just diarrhea. Are you drinking a TON of water, like 16 glasses?

Make sure bananas are spotted with black. Have you tried pureed veggies? Butternut squash?

I don't think her look is due to one food, it's the whole thing.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

*Originally Posted by Jane S
I now think Elimination Diets are Harmful.*
I agree. It totally makes sense.

Can I just whine about yogurt making for a minute! AAAAAHHHHHHH! I am destined NOT to make it. This is my third BOTCHED batch (say that 3 times fast), and it's making me







!

It's seperated in the mason jars. Did the temp get too hot? I brought it to 180 and then let it sit at 100.

I've also been posting over at pecanbread. I'm kumadexmom over there (an old yahoo name that I was too lazy to change.) THey said over there that 100 was not high enough. (?)

Geez. You know, my first batch looked good and actually tasted pretty good too (a little sour), but I know it did not stay at a high enough temp so I tossed it. Could it have been okay since it looked and tasted okay?

OT: I found a wonderful organic co-op here as a result of my search for raw milk and the lady that owns it has a sister who works for Dr. Sears. DH was telling her about DD's troubles and this diet, etc... Well, she spoke w/him about die-off and said she'd be happy to give me her sister's phone # and I could talk to Dr. Sears directly re: this if I wanted to. I've read several of his books, but nothing re: this topic!

Enough














. Going back to bed.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
DID any of you hear the latest, that MCDonalds fries are NOT gluten free? Not that they were healthy anyhow. But it seems they lied the whole time and contain gluten!!!!!


Yep. And not only do they contain wheat, they also contain dairy. Supposedly the wheat and dairy get processed out in the processing. They are labeling it now to comply with the new food labeling law. Kind of sucks. I know they aren't healthy, but they used to be the only thing I felt comfortable giving my allergic child when we ended up eating out.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Jane, I have posted something to that effect several times. Not only are they harmful, they don't work. Unless steps are taken to heal the gut, all you end up with is DIFFERENT FOODS YOU ARE NOW ALLERGIC TO. It is harmful, and results in a terribly inhealthy diet (9 times out of 10) With good information people could prevent a leaky gut from ever happening, let alone having to heal it...but for those of us who are late to the game it is important to be giving a nourishing diet to allow the body every opportunity to heal. I cringe when I hear about mamas who had allergy tests (having been there myself) and eliminate thirty foods from their diets and are living on four foods...Karen DeFelice talks about mamas like that in her book. How do you expect your body to be able to do ANYTHING normal under those circumstances?!?! Your gut has holes, it still has holes, and now you are sensitizing it to the four foods you're eating. It's pretty well documented-that's how it works. Jane, you should post. Just let us know when you do it so we can run over and support you!


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

custom probiotics is the solid gold probiotic, but you have to scroll down to #8 for the D-lactate free. Now that I look at it, I don't even know if they make a d-lactate free yogurt starter!!! Yes, I just checked and their yogurt starter has l. acidophilous in it, and that is what my son can't have









LOL how they say their probiotics are "affordable".......


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Thanks Elisabeth,

I must have missed your posts! I've been thinking about this for a while, but finally everything has gelled in my poor tired brain.

Saving this link for the "discussion"

http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/HeatLabile.htm

Quote:

When the food does not digest properly, it can sit in the gut, unable to be assimilated completely, and it starts to become toxic. The carbohydrates start to ferment, the proteins begin to putrefy and the fats become rancid. These toxins irritate the lining of the gastrointestinal tract mucosa. This can poison the gut bacteria, causing the ecology of the gut to become upset. Three hundred to 400 of the bacteria species can become upset, causing overgrowth of candida and other pathogens. The irritation also causes the cells on the lining of the gastrointestinal tract enlarge. When the cells become larger, the putrefied, undigested food slips into the bloodstream, sometimes called the leaky gut syndrome. These are also called "free radicals", with such formidable names as cadaverines, endols, putricine and phenol.

Since it is the liver's job to detoxify toxins, the liver becomes overloaded and unable to do its job. In the bloodstream, this undigested or partially-digested food (in the form of macromolecules) is in particles too large to get into the cells to function. This undigested or partially-digested food moves through the bloodstream, causing havoc in the body. This is a form of food allergy. It can go to the head and cause the classic symptoms of allergy such as runny nose, eyes, scratchy throat, itchy ears, sinusitis and sneezing. It can go to the brain and cause headaches, anger, fatigue, schizophrenia and perspiration. This putrefied food can go to the joints or tissues and cause arthritis, or to the nerves and cause multiple sclerosis. These macromolecules can also go to the skin and cause acne, edema, psoriasis or rashes. It can lodge anywhere in the soft tissues in the body and cause problems.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarahariz*
Hmm, I just looked it up... sounds interesting. Maybe this is what I need to read since I can't understand why my body would not be producing enough enzymes to digest the food I eat.

Had lots of thoughts about this this morning...

"Nourishing Traditions" is also a great book to understand the impact of our diet on our bodies. A diet of mostly cooked food depletes our enzyme resources.

Edward Howell, the father of enzyme research was the first to explain:

Quote:

Enzymes are complex proteins that act as catalysts in almost every biochemical process that takes place in the body. Their activity depends on the presence of adequate vitamins and minerals, particularly magnesium. Many enzymes incorporate a single molecule of a trace mineral-such as manganese, copper, iron or zinc-without which the enzyme cannot function. http://www.westonaprice.org/nutritiongreats/howell.html
http://www.fruitarian.com/ac/Enzymes.htm

(p.s. I love how the "fruitarians" forgot the raw milk and butter rec at the end of the article







)

Especially the phytates in whole grains (and nuts and soy) which is now the mantra of modern healthy diets... and they are damaging to the body if not soaked first or bread is not sourdough. Whole grains that are not soaked inhibit enzymes as well as bind to minerals. http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html

NT recommends aiming for half of the diet to come from raw foods: raw milk/butter/cheese/cream, fermented veggies and fermented dairy in addition to fresh fruits and vegetables. And even raw meat and raw liver. Because raw fats and raw proteins are very healthful.

Thinking of the Eskimos, who thrived on a diet of mostly raw meat and raw fats... with NO ketosis! Because the raw foods contained so many enzymes, their bodies digested them completely. (And apparently that is what kept them warm, their metabolism burning it all off.)

Acid-Alkaline balance effects enzymes: http://www.price-pottenger.org/Artic...id_alk_bal.htm

Quote:

Too much omega-6 in the diet "uses up" the delta-6 desaturase enzymes needed for the omega-3 pathway
http://www.price-pottenger.org/Artic...staglandin.htm
Omega 6's are in vegetable oils -- the current fad in supposedly healthy diets. (Canola, safflower, sunflower, corn oils are not healthy). Again, the current modern diet rec are all wrong.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok, I'm sold on this approach but I don't know how to start.

I ordered the book.

I'm very confused trying to figure out what we can eat at first.

Where might I find dry curd cottage cheese?

Also, I'm anemic and on iron. What should I do?

And we are ttc. I'll know in a few days if we were sucessful this cycle. Can I/should I try to follow this while pg?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

On my 4th attempt to make yogurt,







I began heating it to the required 180 degrees and as soon as it reached 100 it began to curdle and seperate. Did I get a bad batch of milk to begin with? It smelled kind of yucky when I opened it up.

On my 2nd attempt, I actually used some yummy looking and smelling raw jersey cow milk. The yogurt came out looking and smelling and tasting pretty good (a little sour tasting) but I tossed it out because I know that my oven did not maintain the proper temp overnight.







:

So . . . what' up? Am I destined NEVER to eat this stuff???????????????????

I think I got TWO rotten batches of raw milk in a row. Am I right? What do you all think?

Now I have to wait 'til TUesday to get the good jersey milk again.


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## RedAnt (May 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
*I now think Elimination Diets are Harmful.*

What you're saying makes sense to me, but how else do you figure out allergies when babies are young and allergy testing is faulty? OR are you meaning that it doesn't matter which foods you're intolerant of/allergic to if you are healing the gut? Do you just start SCD including offending foods? If not, at what point do you re-introduce them?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

RedAnt: Exactly. You really don't need to know the allergens (unless you're talking anaphalaxis which is a different ball game.) The SCD has no "offending" foods in terms of foods that will further damage your gut. It does allow foods I'm not on board with...pasteurized cheeses, some sweeteners etc. Consuming those things IMO aren't conducive to good health, but as I said, they will allow your gut to heal. That said, dd can't do pasteurized dairy, but can tolerate raw dairy so there may be some wiggle room once you start-make sense? Food (except in the case of celiac disease) does not inherently damage the gut. It's the imbalances within the gut that are the problem. Heavy metal overload, yeast overgrowth, dysbiosis etc. can cause holes to form in the lining and allow food to leak through into the bloodstream. Your body then attacks it, pinpointing it as an invader, and launches an immune response. You will continue having that response until the gut lining is healed up. The foods leaking through are eliciting a response, but not causing damage. So, unless you are experiencing an anaphalactic response I don't really feel it's important to "know" what the offending foods are. And I'm speaking as a mama who's kids had about 18 identifies allergens each that I chose to ignore and heal. HTH. Jane may have alot more to add, mine was the condensed version.

Annikate: I never heated my milk past 115-but you are saying it curdled way earlier than that. Hmmmmm. I'm sorry you are going through this! It will be a bit sour when you are done though. Maybe somebody else will be more helpful. Keep trying...it's totally worth it just for the versatility it provides in recipes!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Oh, redant...you don't need to worry about reintroducing problematic foods because as I said food isn't the problem. You can decide for yourself when to go off the SCD, but it is a very healthful program and the only thing you are missing are grains-which I never found I did well re-introducing.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Jane, I know I posted here (very gently pushing towards this forum!!), but I have also been on boards with people with celiac disease, and other various food allergies and intolerances doing these ridiculously intense elimination diets. In fact a while back I referred one mama here who was eating like seven foods. It's a big problem IMO. I'm just lucky to have found you and Moneca back in August! I was also lucky to have a doc and an LC who said the same thing to me. Elimintaion diets just produce more allergies. That's how I initially found quercetin and MSM. I feel blessed to have all the right people in my life.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I ordered the book on amazon and also a yougart maker for like $15 (if anyone is interested in one.) It looks like it will work nicely for incubating the yougart and the two togther gave me free shipping









I am making some yougart now and trying to eat up a bunch of my favorite foods









I'm torn about starting this diet now and just putting away the "bad" foods (that aren't perishable) or putting it off a week. My dd and I have a cold and dh has a migrane and a stomach ache today (he has far more gi "issues" than we do).

It says lots of places to do the intro diet untill the diahrea stops. None of us currently have diahrea. Will we get it on the intro diet or does the diet assume that is an issue for everyone doing this? If we don't have diahrea do we need to do the intro or can we skip right to stage 1?

Thanks for now.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I'm probably the last one to answer your question Patty, but I just realized (since I have not received or read the book yet), that I have skipped over the first stage myself. I did not have any real *symptoms* per se either and it seems to be working for me. I made the mistake of trying some pecans w/honey and cinnamon and that was stupid! I suffered a tummy ache







after that so I guess I'm not ready for nuts.

I cleaned my pantry and boxed up my *bad* food and gave it all to a neighbor. None of it was really junk, but lots of wheat, pastas, etc...

And . . . I cooked all day long again today and froze a lot of yummy stuff for the week.









Still waiting to have some yogurt . . . .







:


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

One more question.

Would something like nystantin or diflucan be beneficial/legal on this diet? Does anyone know of the dangers of these drugs esp in light of our ttc status (I'm 6 dpo today)?

Thanks!

I am realizing how all the dietary changes I have been making for our family are like a gradula transition into this diet. That is a good thing, none of us cope with change well.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Patty,

You can and should follow this diet when you are pregnant, with a focus on maximizing the nutrients in your food.

I used Nystatin and it didn't work because I had not completely fixed my diet. I never tried Diflucan even with a bad case of systemic yeast because of the possibility of liver damage -- if memory serves, minor liver damage happens in something like 1% of cases and major is something like 1/10 of 1%. If you are breastfeeding the risk probably holds for baby as well and may be greater. I wouldn't use it pregnant, so I wouldn't chance it at 6 dpo.

Amanda


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## ma2twins (Jan 6, 2006)

WOW, I am new to MDC and I was just browsing this thread since I love Nutrition. I also have leaky gut/food sensitivites and best of all Candida. My head is spinning with all this new found information. I have been doing a "candida diet" now for 2 weeks and honestly I haven't any "die off" symptoms. I have lost weight but thats about it. I was hoping for some really great healing crisis symptoms.
Anyway I browsed through the SCD and it makes me skeptical that it would help with yeast overgrowth if you are eating such foods as fruits, vinegars and fungus (mushrooms) & sweets. So does this diet really help with that or is it more with actually "bowel" issues like colitis & IBS?
Is the answer that the foods you are eating are going to be healing the gut so therefor the Candida will die off?? I just can't wrap my head around that being true yet I want to.
My other concern is the dairy. I have learned a lot about dairy over the last little while and how bad it can be for you since it is mucous forming, so if someone can explain that to me please help me understand why it would be good for you. I have cut dairy out of my diet for quite sometime now and I can totally see a difference in me, so introducing dairy back in would be very scary to me, especially since I do have a casein allergy.
I personally have issues with meat too, though I have been eating it while doing the candida diet, but I have to say that seeing pork as legal was a shock because in ALL stuff I have read pork is a no always!

Anywho, this chat has REALLY intrigued me. I feel pretty knowledgable for the most part of nutrition and this is ALL new to me. SO I guess being so interested in try to heal myself I just need a little more comfort in knowing that THIS diet would solve my problems.

TIA!!... wow, is really all I can say, lol!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Ma2twins: This diet is great for yeast. There's alot of info out there that is quite outdated, and I know its hard to believe that you can eat fruits and vinegars and still kill off the yeast-but you can! My die off on this diet was incredible, I never had it with an anti-candida diet. It blew my mind. Also, I am there with you on the dairy, but the question (as you will hear again and again) is were you doing raw or pasteurized dairy? There is a huge difference. I was about as anti-dairy as it gets, but as I read I am changing my mind. I don't think it will ever be a large part of my diet, but raw cheeses and yogurt every now and again are not problematic for me.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

FWIW I wouldn't do Nystatin or Difucan regardless of whether or not I was TTC. They scare me, don't work very well and you don't need them. If this diet alone isn't doing it fast enough, you can add GSE, enzymes and probiotics (which are recommended on the diet anyhow) You will kill your yeast problem. I can't tell you how horrible my yeast was, and it's gone. I am now pregnant and nursing and am doing the diet again-just for insurance. Both my kids had serious gut issues, and I am doing everything I can not to have another kiddo with them.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I think if you have a casein allergy, then you should not do dairy -- www.pecanbread.com has plenty of info on how to do SCD dairy-free.

I think that there are no standard solutions to gut injury, and that something that works for some may not work for others. I have been on SCD for over four months, but cheese and yogurt still give me migraines, which I take as a sign my gut hasn't healed (well, that and the diarrhea). I guess though that it's supposed to take a year. I was hoping that I would be free of the migraines at least, though.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok, I really want to start now! But I don't have the book yet.

What has the pecanbread intro diet left off? Where does dairy fit in? Is that all it leaves out?

I've got yougart in the fridge chilling for breakfast tomorrow. I "think" that we don't need to do the intro for more than a day or so because our symptoms aren't severe, right?

Also what do you know about epsom salt baths? That is mentioned on pecanbread to help with the die off. I have done them in the past for various reasons. Is there a limit to how much I should put in a bath for my 2 year old? Can we soak in it together or do we need different strengths? I never used to let her soak in it in case it would be too much for her.

I'm convinced to not to the antifungals, thanks for the info. I'm seeing my Dr tomorrow and wanted to know if I should be asking for this.

Oh and dry curd cottage cheese. Is that easy to find? I haven't ever looked for it. Would they have it at Whole foods? Once I can get my raw dairy again I'll just make my own but untill then I need to buy it.

How soon can I expect to see results? I'm planning to pack up the grains for now and put them in the basement (I already gave away all my gluten stuff and replaced it w/super expensive gluten free stuff, not ready to give that up just yet)


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## ma2twins (Jan 6, 2006)

I shouldn't have used the word "allergy"... i guess its more of a sensativity since I never knew I was "sensative" to it until I was tested for allergies. Very interesting about the raw dairy though. It makes me sad cause I odn't know where I can get raw dairy here in Winnipeg. When I was living in Nova Scotia I had a raw goat farmer right in my town and we did eat the yogurt. I LOVE cheese and yogurt so if I could eat it and still be healthy I would be THRILLED!!!... Now I just need to find out how I can get it.

Oh do you all do organic meat? I just cannot afford organic meat, there is just no way. For a pound of beef its 8$ and for a little tiny chicken its 12$. I guess that would help me eat less portion. Because I couldn't afford meat I figured I just wouldn't eat it. I do eat wild salmon though. So if I can't get organic meat does that mean I shouldn't consume meat, how does that work?

firefaery~ If you don't mind me asking, how did you know you had Candida? what were your symptoms? How long did you do the Candida diet for? How long before doing the SCD did you notice a difference? Would you say you are candida free now?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Let's see...chronic vaginal yeast infections(read:every day of my life), thrush, gas, fungal overgrowth on my skin, headaches, dizziness, achiness...I had yeast like NOBODY'S business! I did a couple of colonics as well, and the woman said she had never seen so much yeast. Eeew. I did anti-candida diets several times and for months at a clip as prescribed by my naturopath. It never worked. I saw a difference two days into the SCD. the die off was awful. I never had a vaginal infection while on it, and didn't for awhile afterwards either. I just realized I have one now though, so I'm back on the diet. So ...I was yeast-free, but now I'm not (I have been off it for three months now? Something like that.) I'm also increasing my enzymes, taking them between meals to speed up the killing of the yeast.


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## ma2twins (Jan 6, 2006)

Oh WOW, thats just crazy!!! I can't imagine living like that on a daily basis. But you certainly inspire me to do this. How long did you stay on the SCD?

My fear is really the non-organic meats and I am guessing I would have to do the dairy free part of it since I doubt I can find raw dairy.









I think I am going to go get the book on Tuesday.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok we have started the diet. I think we will just do the intro for tonight and tomorrow then start adding foods. When can we add cheese?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I stayed on it for four-five months...not long enough! I had issues because I was vegan before doing it and had a really big problem eating meat. I went off it, felt fine for awhile but Jane convinced me (because I asked!!!!) that I needed to rethink things-so I'm back







I should have done it for longer anyway.

I would be right there with you on the dairy...I won't do it unless it's raw and organic. I'm also very strict about the meat. Pasture-fed and organic or nothing! It's the way to go!


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## ma2twins (Jan 6, 2006)

Oh dear, going from Vegan to SCD thats a huge jump! If you are willing to do that then I am SOLD!!! I talked to Dh tonight about the extra cost of meat and really it wouldn't be that bad. My portions would be much smaller but I can stand to change my portion size







!

Did anyone have any weight problems before the diet. Does this diet help the process of weight loss? I have done things like "food combining" which I guess this has the same sort idea behind it and it helped. I am over weight and I am in the process of losing but I want to make sure this is a good diet to assist in weight loss. Any info on that?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I gave dd some pureed chicken w/broth that I had made today and tonight she PROJECTILE vomited it all over the place and had TERRIBLE gas!







She's sleeping soundly right now.

I think I'm an idiot and I'm ashamed to say that I didn't even think about it when I pureed it for her that I seasoned the broth w/a little pepper, salt and a few onions. When I was chopping the onion (about 1/4 onion) I thought to myself that I should't use it and to be honest I totally FORGOT about the onion until just now before I came to post.









This is the first time dd has had chicken btw. I feel so awful. Was it the onions or chicken or both?









ETA: I remembered I did NOT add the onions until after I made dd's portion.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I lost 40 pounds in the first three months. Eliminating grains will do that for you! Also, you have no choice but to eat whole foods...that helps too. The weight just poured off. I continued losing after I went off, but I stayed virtually no grain and whole foods-just eliminated animal products. All in all I lost over 60 pounds (and cleared my skin, and got rid of all my GI symptoms and slept better and got rid of my depression!) I lost most rapidly on the SCD though.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Annikate, someone else awhile ago had a dc who reacted to the chicken broth...I'll try to find it.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Thanks, I appreciate it!

ETA: I tried to find it too but didn't see anything.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Can anyone give me a quick run down of how we should be eating this week while we wait for the book?

Right now what can we eat other than meat, eggs and carrots? Yogart now or not? I'm feeling very confused (and hungry). Any fruit now?

ETA: What should I do about a prenatal? I know iron supplimentation isn't advised, but I am anemic and taking both a prenatal and a perscription iron suppliment.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Patty, did you read about the intro diet on breakingtheviciouscycle.info already? Because I think it says dairy is OK at the start, and then to introduce cooked fruit. Iron supplements are illegal on SCD -- can you eat liver or other high iron foods? Not all anemia is caused by low iron, it can be caused by low B12 or low B1 (I think) as well. How was your low iron diagnosed? Iron supplements are very bad for the gut, they feed the bad buggies and block absorbtion of natural iron. I still think part of ds's problem was that we started rice cereal at six months, and the rice cereal was iron fortified. The iron in bm is much better absorbed. I haven't checked to see if Floradix contains illegals, if it doesn't, it's a much better choice than ferrous sulfate, as it contains a much more absorbable type of iron. You really have to be careful with any mineral supplement, though, because they all interact, and supplementing just one can throw off the rest.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I currently can't tolerate beef. I can't stand chicken livers







but I have been considering figuring out how to get one or the other into my diet.

I did read about the intro diet there but I'm not clear if that is all you are allowed or if that is just a suggestion or what. Is just the dry curd cottage cheese allowed at first?


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## ma2twins (Jan 6, 2006)

Silly question but, I was wondering where you can buy a yogurt maker? I checked out lucyskitchenshop.com but are there actual stores that would sell a yogurt maker?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Have you tried the chicken liver pate recipe from the BTVC book? Of course, that would require your having the book, wouldn't it? As far as which cheeses are ok to start with, I'm not sure. Also, I think if you start the yogurt, you should eat only a spoonful or two at first, just to see what your reaction may be. You can cook with it, of course. Also, check out the introductions chart over at pecanbread, remembering that it's dairy free and thus wouldn't help with which cheeses. Basically, you want to start with the easiest to digest and add things one or two at a time and see what the reactions are (kind of like starting first foods with a baby).


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

We're back!

Ok I bought some chicken livers. How do I make something edible out of them???

I also have a yucky yeast rash on my bum. My Dr looked at it yesterday and suggested I take zink for 3 weeks to help it heal. I drove myself nuts yesterday at whole foods trying to find a legal brand of folic acid. What brands tend to have legal vitamins??? Unfortunatly the zink in her office had rice, lentels and some other illegals in it.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I am very confused as to why a zinc supplement would have anything but zinc and maybe an aqueous solution. As for legals/illegals www.pecanbread.com has a list of supplements that you can print out that will list supplements and brands that are okay on the SCD.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

DD seems to be EXTRA fussy today & did NOT sleep much at all last night. Is it normal for intolerances to certain foods to *really* be apparent at this stage? I'm suspecting tomato sauce in my diet. (scd legal)

We have an appt w/ a ped allergist/immunologist on Monday. Her violent reaction to the chicken prompted that. I hope I'm doing the right thing by going down this road. I'm so tired and worried and frstrated . . . Not to mention that I'm waiting for our hair samples to come which is only adding to the worry . . . and I'm feeling terribly guilty like I caused all of this by eating like crap while pregnant.







(I did not do this w/dd1).

Sorry for the pity party, it's just been an extra tough couple of days.


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## mommy2cias (Feb 6, 2006)

Is it okay to introduce the introductory diet slowly? My ds is having sugar/carb. withdrawls(layed on the kitchen floor at dinner last night pounding his fist and kicking and yelling "I want noodles!!!!!", which, of course, he did not get) and so I figured slow might be good. He doesn't deal well w/change anyway. I'm going to be joining him on the diet, so I figure we'll start it together at the same time.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I would just push through. Withdrawal is tough, but it's over quickly. There are several things you could do to make you both more comfortable, but I would keep all illegals eliminated. Letting him have any amount of illegals will prolong his discomfort.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

firefaery -- did I read that you have a recipe for almond bars using almond butter and coconut oil? If so, could you post it?


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## mama_b (Dec 14, 2004)

I want to read these threads all the way through. Can anyone give me a link for the original thread? I searched and couldn't find it. Thanks.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Amanda-I just do some almond butter (raw) and coconut oil heated on the stove slightly to combine oils. I then cool it and add other things that I may be in the mood for (raisins, dates, pecans etc.) and roll into balls. I sometimes roll the balls in natural, unsweetened, unsulphured coconut just to get a "coating" on. Then freeze! They are great. I would guess that it's about a cup of almond butter to a half cup of coconut oil. I find the freezing step to be important because coconut oil melts at body temp (messy if you're holding them!) You can also heat the coconut oil and just throw everything else in a vitamix or food processor.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I went back to find the post about the reaction to the broth. It was about five or six months ago if I remember correctly. I'll keep looking! It's been tough with the boards down..


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Thanks faery! That sounds great.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I went back to find the post about the reaction to the broth. It was about five or six months ago if I remember correctly. I'll keep looking! It's been tough with the boards down...
Thanks!








~Terri


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I don't know how to "link" things. But, as I recall, the beginning of all of this was a post by Jane entitled, "Not sure if alot of food allergies really are allergies" or something to that effect. It would have been back in July or so.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

mama_b,
Here's the original link. I just read it through for the first time last week.








http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=295112


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

I've got a question...
My ds2 has Celiac Disease. He's been Gluten Free for 6 months and just not eating well still. We've resorted to Periactin to get is appetite up and it works, but then we forget to give it to him and we're back to square 1 with him eating about 2T of food in a day. He'll be 4 in April, so 2T of food intake is not meeting his requirements. Additionally we have confirmed via blood lab work that he is burning muscle tissue to live, this was pre-GF diet, but I would assume unless he is eating an adequate amount of food he is still burning muscle for basic metabolic body functions.
With that said, is it possible that his gut is still in pain? I've been doing some research lately here on increasing his gut's natural ability to repair itself -- but again this requires that he eats. Fortunately, many of the things that are good for repairing the gut, he likes -- berries for example and cod liver oil!!!
So my main question is, if you have CD, or gut related pain, was it residual even after eliminating the culprits? And if so, how long did it take to be healed?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I have celiac disease, as does dd. The damage caused by the disease is really devastating, and my dd wasn't willing to eat at all. She was FTT even at 15 months. I don't know if his gut is still "in pain" but I would guess it's still quite damaged. The SCD will really make a difference in your life. The gut does regenerate every 3 to 7 days depending on what you're reading, but that's not always the case with a damaged gut. I would say that I saw a difference in dd almost immediately. Within three days she was eating alot more, and actually sleeping! And it wasn't like we hadn't already said good-bye to gluten. My pain lasted for about two weeks into the SCD. I haven't had it back, with the exception of one time when I accidentally consumed gluten


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

I'm reading stuff from Jordan Rubin, The Makers Diet is the 1 book I have, but I was reading reviews on his others. I recently purchased the Great Physician's RX. I've read reviews on him and that mainstream his ideas of eating dirt make him a quack, but I think he has a lot to offer in terms of healing the gut without having to eat his prescribed dirt!!!







Actually, I never got that he was prescribing people to eat dirt, just that our soil is deficient in quality therefore our foods are lacking -- thus restore soil, restore nutrition to food. And since we grow a good number of our own veggies and fruits from Apr thur Nov, I figured a good lesson in biochemistry of organic soil was in order -- not eating dirt as some critic so out of context put it. Anyway, Restoring Your Digestive Health is one I'd like to get my hands on as well.

I sometimes wonder if there is way to heal him for life without adhering to GF diet for life. I know scientific evidence is lacking, so I'm sort of forced to believe that he does infact need to be GF for life. But a part of me thinks this just can't be, I have a hard time with believing God designed my son to not be able to eat wheat and I can. Why is my son's design not perfect kind of question... Another part of me thinks that wheat grain in general isn't likely healthy for anyone now that it's been so hybrid and taken from it's natural design.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok I have read this whole thread. I'm very confused about a few things.

Is scd good for yeast? If so what about all the fruit on it?

Start with cooked, peeled, deseeded fruit first. Then a damaged gut has a chance of breaking it down. (Juicing is good too, but with all juice, mix half and half with water.)

Fruit sugar, like honey, is a monosaccharide and does not feed the yeast. That is, if the fruit cell walls are being broken down. Which is why raw fruit can feed yeast in a damaged gut.

It is because the monosaccharide sugars are absorbed right into bloodstream and do not hang out in the intestines like whole grains and starches which are not being broken down fully by digestive enzymes can. Read "Science Behind the Diet" at www.pecanbread.com as to why this is.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
It seems like the begining diets listed on those two sites are primarilly protein foods. What veggies/fruits are allowed at first?
What kind of enzymes can I give to dd who is 2?
I have her taking gummy bear vitamins, are these bad? (some natural free of everything bad for you brand that I can't currently remember)

Right now eating from a short list sounds easier than what we are doing currently but I'm sure I won't feel that way a week into it.

Do any of you ever eat out? We eat out at least once a week with friends. Is that going to be an option any more?

Is cod liver oil better than fish oils? Should we be getting both? One or the other? What about epo? I tried that for a while because it is supposed to help with endo pain but it didn't help (although cod liver oil did) so I quit taking it.

Butternut squash, peeled zucchini, eggplant, spaghetti squash, peas, well steamed green beans and spinach are all well tolerated by my DS and he still is stuck in towards beginning stages of diet. I cook all fruits for him, and like using frozen fruits b/c they are easy: peaches, mangos, cherries, blueberries. Apples and pears can get boring fast. Avocados can be raw. Black spotted ripe bananas.

There's a great chart at www.pecanbread.com under the Food Prep section of the stages of foods that are reported as easier to digest at first.

Eating out is hard but not impossible. Enzymes will be a definate need IMO then, and not so you can eat bread but so you won't have to worry about tiny little things which can creep in. Order plain meat/fish/veg, no seasonings. Salads with oil and vinegar. It's hard but it can be done. Bring y our own homemade crackers/bread/rolls. Some cheese. This is how I get thru.

Gummy vitamins contain a lot of sugar.

Cod liver oil NOT fish oil, there is a difference. EPO is good for excema, not sure about endo pain, have you read Dr. John Lee's book, "What Dr May Not Tell You About Premenopause".

All of the fats you eat make a great deal difference in the body and some promote inflammation. The vegetable fats like soy, canola, safflower and corn are NOT healthy. This is not SCD but here:
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/index.html

I use olive and coconut oil, some palm shortening and grass fed butter.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RedAnt*
My exclusively BF 10 mo DD is having food allergy problems. I've been reading lots of posts and learning over the last couple of weeks. Maybe I'm getting too much information though, because I'm really getting overwhelmed! I'll try to be brief.

I've had dairy issues (lactose intolerance? milk protein allergy?) my entire life. I haven't completely avoided dairy until the last several months though. I was able to tolerate some cheeses okay. While pregnant I felt like I could tolerate other dairy better, so I was eating quite a bit of it. Now I'm learning that was probably bad for my DD.









DD was colicky for 4-5 hours in the middle of the night for the first few months. She had chiropractic adjustments, a couple of craniosacral therapy sessions, and I eliminated dairy. Perhaps those helped or maybe she just grew out of it. However, she almost always had green poop 10-12 times a day, bad cradle cap for a while, on and off eczema, and often anus ring rashes. I tried eliminating various things one or two at a time, but that wasn't helping.

After the holidays, I finally started an elimination diet. Now her poop is usually yellow. She is absolutely disinterested in solid food. Every time I re-introduce something into my diet, it seems to bother her and green poop returns. Eggs = rash over most of body and back-arching, painful gas. Corn = thick spit up (usually never spits up). Wheat = painful gas, scratching, very squirmy all night. Now she has a bad anus ring from I don't know what. I've noticed reactions myself as well, usually bloating cramps and gas. I'm losing too much weight and DD is getting dark circles under her eyes. I have a super fast metabolism and DD is HN, and I find it really difficult to prepare creative meals.

I'm tired, hungry, discouraged, and obsessed with trying to get this figured out (hence the 4:00 a.m. post!) Clearly we need some gut healing, but I don't know where to start. SCD and NT seem to use a lot of eggs and dairy. Please share your mama wisdom!

BTW, DD is happy 99% of the time and ~20 pounds, but I don't think she has gained any weight in the last month or so. No worries about her development. Homebirthed, no vax.











You dont' have to do dairy or eggs on SCD. It makes it a little more difficult but it can be done. You also might think about trying the goat yogurt yourself. Goat's milk protein is significantly different than cow's and the yogurt also predigests it. My DS can only do goat right now.

Lactose intolerance means the inability to produce the enzyme lactase by the intestines. Genetically it has been linked to cultures that do not eat dairy traditionally (Asians) but I wonder if its because the mother does not pass on the gut flora to her children to digest it... anyways yogurt will absolutely help this. And 24 hr. yogurt has no lactose at all. But the dairy allergy thing could be the sensitivity to proteins... if your babe is sensitive, then your gut is leaking it out into your bloodstream, and therefore, your milk.

Cook all her fruits and veggies, no raw. No starches like corn or sweet potatoes, like I advice in the "Starting Solids for Food Allergic Baby" in Allergies forum.

Sometimes you may think things like eggs are an allergy when really it's the carbs that's causing the gas. The yolk is not as allergenic as the proteins in the whites.

Here, a red ring in DS means yeast/bacteria is acting up.

Gas means the food is fermenting and not being digested properly.


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## RedAnt (May 5, 2005)

Thanks JaneS & firefaery too for your responses a couple pages back. Your advice and tips are really helpful.

I'm sold! I read the book and ordered a yogurt machine. I suck at menu planning, so that's the only thing keeping me from starting this very moment. I'm also trying to figure out how to do all of this food preparation. It looks like avocados and ripe bananas are the only foods that don't require preparation. I guess I'll have to cook in the middle of the night instead of spending time on MDC.









I







you mamas for taking the time to share your wisdom with those of us who haven't figured it out yet!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2zsel*
Ok-I am reading and reading, and wonder if any of you can tell me where to start. I know my family has yeast issues and maybe even food allergies. We eat "healthy" and "organic" mostly vegetarian, few to no processed food. But we rely on grains for most of our meals-rice/beans, pasta, breads. I don't know where to start-looking into NT and the SCD, reading about suppliments and enzymes-it's just overwhelming. I appreciate any ideas and attempts to point me in the right direction! Thank you!

Ah... the diet that led to my problems too! Whole grains, if not soaked, will lead to digestive problems as the phytic acid in them impairs digestive enzymes. Also binds to minerals and can cause deficiencies. Whole grains if not digested fully, ferment in the intestines and feed yeast.

read Beginners section here: www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info for SCD explanation.

NT approach is to soak grains and use fermented dairy and veggies to provide enzymes: http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html
You might want to read the Vegetarian Tour at the Weston Price website too, very eye opening.

All about enzyme supplements here: www.enzymestuff.com including treating yeast with enzymes.

It also makes a big difference as to what oils you use... your immune and digestive system.

I know it's overwhelming, but keep reading, you'll be an expert in no time


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok, I'm sold on this approach but I don't know how to start.

I ordered the book.

I'm very confused trying to figure out what we can eat at first.

Where might I find dry curd cottage cheese?

Also, I'm anemic and on iron. What should I do?

And we are ttc. I'll know in a few days if we were sucessful this cycle. Can I/should I try to follow this while pg?

Dry curd cottage cheese info here: http://www.scdiet.org/8resources/drycurd_sources.html
We use Friendship.

What kind of iron are you taking? I think Floradix or whatever that herbal stuff is called is supposed to be easier on the gut... artificial iron is very hard on the intestines.

I think this diet is perfectly nutritious to eat while pregnant especially if you need to knock out yeast problems. Also see the "Preppying for Pregnancy" thread in Vaccinations.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok here we are on day 2 of scd.

I have had a lot happen in the past 24 hours so I thought I would update you.

Yesterday I noticed that I felt the same as I feel when I am fasting, except I'm not hungry. That is, I feel fuzzy headed. It is difficult to make complete sentences, esp when talking. I keep forgetting important words. I keep getting distracted from what I'm trying to do as well.

I saw my Dr yesterday and she confirmed that I do have a bad yeast rash on my bottom







and recomended zink and weleda diaper care cream to deal with it. (no idea why that zink had those extra ingredients she was shocked too and took it back to her office to look into it). She also offered me nystantin if I want it although she suggested waiting till a month or two into the diet to start it. I'm considering it. She didn't think I would stick with the diet. She doesn't know how badly I want more sleep. She also tested me for celiacs although we both think that by now it will probably come back negative even if I have it. Apparently the newest stats on that is 1 in 111 americans have celiacs!

Ok so fast forward to today. I went to my chiro. He was supposed to be starting me on some fertility enhancing stuff, but I told him about following the diet (he has read the book) and he decided we need to wait this out for a while. He put me on two things one to support my liver and one to support my gall bladder. I'll have to look up the names.

One more thing then I have to go rescue my upset dd from my dh. She is constipated, badly, for the first time in her life. Too much protein not enough veggies. What can I give her? Are stewed prunes ok?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
On my 4th attempt to make yogurt,







I began heating it to the required 180 degrees and as soon as it reached 100 it began to curdle and seperate. Did I get a bad batch of milk to begin with? It smelled kind of yucky when I opened it up.

On my 2nd attempt, I actually used some yummy looking and smelling raw jersey cow milk. The yogurt came out looking and smelling and tasting pretty good (a little sour tasting) but I tossed it out because I know that my oven did not maintain the proper temp overnight.







:

So . . . what' up? Am I destined NEVER to eat this stuff???????????????????

I think I got TWO rotten batches of raw milk in a row. Am I right? What do you all think?

Now I have to wait 'til TUesday to get the good jersey milk again.

















ARGH. Any luck yet? When mine curdles it means it got too hot. I wouldn't have tossed the raw milk yogurt, just cultured it longer at proper temp to eat up all the lactose. I should be very sour when done (if you are using acidophilus), as all the milk sugar should be gone and the lactic acid bacteria tastes sour. I use the Progurt L. casei starter for DS b/c it's dairy free (he can only do goat milk) from www.giprohealth.com and it is a more mild tasting bacteria.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I absolutely believe that you can heal yourself from celiac disease. I am not at all sure that you can go back to eating the S.A.D. when you've done it though. I think that if you take the time to properly prepare grains it can be done. I am working with my homeopath on this right now. I believe that a combination of the SCD and her remedy along with enzymes and some of the supplements I am using will cure both of us.
Ditto to what Jane said about your sensitivity being your babes...The way an exclusively bf baby gets allergies is because YOUR gut is leaking. That means the SCD is something you can do together! Think of the bonding


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Floradix + Iron is a very good supplement and I believe is legal...there's alot you can do naturally but that isn't compatible with the diet.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Ditto to what Jane said about your sensitivity being your babes...The way an exclusively bf baby gets allergies is because YOUR gut is leaking. That means the SCD is something you can do together! Think of the bonding

















:


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Pattyla, the die-off floored me too! It will be over soon. As for the yeast rash-you can do GSE internally and externally. You can also put a couple of drops of tea tree oil in your underwear. IT will provide some great relief from the discomfort...just put a couple of drops spaced out around the seat of the underwear. GSE taken internally or externally has to be diluted...15 drops in a 5 ounce glass of water is what I do every couple of hours. I also take pascalite clay to help with the die-off. You can also use the same dilution for a "bottom rub". Zinc is a great idea as it will help in gut healing as well-just find a very good brand that's ONLY zinc and preferably liquid. You can take 25-30 mg a day.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
ARGH. Any luck yet? When mine curdles it means it got too hot. I wouldn't have tossed the raw milk yogurt, just cultured it longer at proper temp to eat up all the lactose. I should be very sour when done (if you are using acidophilus), as all the milk sugar should be gone and the lactic acid bacteria tastes sour. I use the Progurt L. casei starter for DS b/c it's dairy free (he can only do goat milk) from www.giprohealth.com and it is a more mild tasting bacteria.
I used a tbl. of Dannon for starter. I got some yummy looking & smelling milk. I think I've got a good batch going right now.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

The guy at the hfs told dh I should be eating kefir







& that the milk he sold me will seperate & that the yogurt will turn out looking curdled when it's done









Then he said something that made me laugh. Granted, I am new at this but this just sounded







: That kefir has a left spriral and yogurt has a right spiral which was his reasoning for dh to buy some kefir too. (I know kefir is scd illegal.) Anybody ever heard of this?

I think he was





















'cause he didn't want to admit he sold us a rotten product.


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## mommy2cias (Feb 6, 2006)

http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

Actually, kefir is pretty good. Too bad it's SCD illegal(but what isn't? geez)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RedAnt*
What you're saying makes sense to me, but how else do you figure out allergies when babies are young and allergy testing is faulty? OR are you meaning that it doesn't matter which foods you're intolerant of/allergic to if you are healing the gut?

Yes, because often just taking out one or two foods do not heal the gut... even in some cases of celiac disease. There is an underlying reason why these allergies/intolerances exist. At the root of that is the condition of the intestinal villi and the enzymes they are able to produce, and the type of intestinal flora that exists.

More on SCD and celiac disease, behavioral issues and allergies:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ass_exerpt.htm
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ac_disease.htm
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i.../allergies.htm

The SCD is based on Dr. Sidney Haas' **cure** for celiac disease. I know celiacs very well, one of my best friends is, and a kid in DS's longtime playgroup is... *and they still have symptoms on a GF diet*.

The medical establishment, by basing it's theory on a genetic cause, is doing them a grave disservice by ignoring the intestinal flora contribution of this. And what I've learned is that a disease of nutrition in the parents can be passed on "genetically" to the child if the same nutritional deficiency exists. After all, just like autism, celiac disease is now at epidemic levels. And there is no such thing as a genetic epidemic.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RedAnt*
Do you just start SCD including offending foods? If not, at what point do you re-introduce them?

I think you have to make an educated guess. In the case of a child under 2, the top allergens should not be given at first anyway: dairy, eggs, wheat, fish, nuts, soy. I would try egg yolk first. Then yogurt, nuts, fish. Wheat when healing has taken place. Soy never, unless it's fermented soy sauce or miso, but that's me.









*Another issue is the form of the food you eat:*

I could have told you emphatically that I was allergic or intolerant to nuts. Gave me horrible gas pains, obviously I could not digest them. Well, what was I eating... whole nuts. And not soaked too which inhibits digestive enzymes. Once I started SCD and began making homemade nut butters from soaked nuts... not a rumble. Then after a bit, tried nut flour, I was totally fine. It wasn't until significant healing happened that I could handle whole nuts (and I still have to pay attention to chewing them very well.)

The same with dairy... I had a conversation with someone who will not try the SCD for her long time colitis for the nut reason and also dairy. She swears she's lactose intolerant, etc. still can't eat yogurt, etc etc. But 24 hr. yogurt contains no lactose. Butter and cheese only have tiny traces. She could be allergic to dairy protein but if it's just the lactose, the SCD will help her b/c yogurt has the probiotic in it that will colonize and start the gut producing lactase enzymes.

Also raw fruit that I went into in an above post re: yeast. You need to start with cooked fruit first. Same with raw veggies and being able to digest them.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Jane, I know I posted here (very gently pushing towards this forum!!), but I have also been on boards with people with celiac disease, and other various food allergies and intolerances doing these ridiculously intense elimination diets. In fact a while back I referred one mama here who was eating like seven foods. It's a big problem IMO. I'm just lucky to have found you and Moneca back in August! I was also lucky to have a doc and an LC who said the same thing to me. Elimintaion diets just produce more allergies. That's how I initially found quercetin and MSM. I feel blessed to have all the right people in my life.









And you are passing it on, so thank you too!

What recently prompted me to post my little treatise above was the post the user "splash" made in breastfeeding about her partner who was bf'ing their DS with an immune system problem and she ate nothing but rice for a whole month. Hello deficient breastmilk.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'm torn about starting this diet now and just putting away the "bad" foods (that aren't perishable) or putting it off a week. My dd and I have a cold and dh has a migrane and a stomach ache today (he has far more gi "issues" than we do).

It says lots of places to do the intro diet untill the diahrea stops. None of us currently have diahrea. Will we get it on the intro diet or does the diet assume that is an issue for everyone doing this? If we don't have diahrea do we need to do the intro or can we skip right to stage 1?

I think it says if you don't have D, just do the Intro Diet for 2 days. It's important to do to "clear the decks".

Migraine and stomach ache are probably a direct result of the condition of his gut.

The stages on Pecanbread are just suggestions. Officially there is no set SCD schedule for introducing foods ex. yogurt you are supposed to go slow.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
One more question.

Would something like nystantin or diflucan be beneficial/legal on this diet? Does anyone know of the dangers of these drugs esp in light of our ttc status (I'm 6 dpo today)?

Enzymes are much safer and probably more effective as they don't have the side effects.
http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionbacteria.htm

Starting enzymes and hydrochloric acid supplements will help a great deal.

Nystatin doesn't have a very good track record at all. Diflucan like Amanda mentioned, has the liver issue, plus it's HORRIBLE side effects.


----------



## ma2twins (Jan 6, 2006)

Quick question...
Ok i mentioned earlier that I have a sensativity to casein... does this mean I should NOT do the yoghurt? I honestly don't really know my sensitivity symptoms. I don't get headaches or diahrrea so how will know if it affects me. I found out about my sensativities through my natural nutritionalist. She tested me with the "Omega AcuBase" which uses a system of measurment known as the Galvanic Skin Response, or skin conductance, as an idicator of stress. Other things listed are whey, cow's milk & goats milk. So I am just wondering if with the process of making the yoghurt, will it make it ok to ingest & digest??
I know there is the dairy free portion of the SCD but I am just wondering if the yoghurt could be ok since I honestly don't see the results of eating dairy. I guess you could say I just feel unwell mentally from it, but I only noticed that since I have become more intune with my body!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ma2twins*
WOW, I am new to MDC and I was just browsing this thread since I love Nutrition. I also have leaky gut/food sensitivites and best of all Candida. My head is spinning with all this new found information. I have been doing a "candida diet" now for 2 weeks and honestly I haven't any "die off" symptoms. I have lost weight but thats about it. I was hoping for some really great healing crisis symptoms.
Anyway I browsed through the SCD and it makes me skeptical that it would help with yeast overgrowth if you are eating such foods as fruits, vinegars and fungus (mushrooms) & sweets. So does this diet really help with that or is it more with actually "bowel" issues like colitis & IBS?
Is the answer that the foods you are eating are going to be healing the gut so therefor the Candida will die off?? I just can't wrap my head around that being true yet I want to.
My other concern is the dairy. I have learned a lot about dairy over the last little while and how bad it can be for you since it is mucous forming, so if someone can explain that to me please help me understand why it would be good for you. I have cut dairy out of my diet for quite sometime now and I can totally see a difference in me, so introducing dairy back in would be very scary to me, especially since I do have a casein allergy.
I personally have issues with meat too, though I have been eating it while doing the candida diet, but I have to say that seeing pork as legal was a shock because in ALL stuff I have read pork is a no always!

Anywho, this chat has REALLY intrigued me. I feel pretty knowledgable for the most part of nutrition and this is ALL new to me. SO I guess being so interested in try to heal myself I just need a little more comfort in knowing that THIS diet would solve my problems.

TIA!!... wow, is really all I can say, lol!









So glad to have you here!

See my post #238 re: yeast issues. And I can tell you from personal experience it totally works for yeast! Bowel and yeast issues have the same exact cause: flora imbalance. The food you are eating will either be fully absorbed (fruit and honey) or not feeding yeast and bacteria (nuts, proteins).

Just try it and see, I noticed a difference immediately when I stopped the grains.

*Re: dairy*

Well there's dairy and then there's dairy... the 24 hr. yogurt not only has no lactose and predigested proteins, but it also contains 5x more probiotics in one TEASPOON than most capsules on the market.

Goat's milk casein structure is smaller, and also I think it has more whey? I posted several months back on it. My DS can only do goat yogurt, so I know it is indeed different. You can tell the protein is different b/c the goat yogurt does not gel up like cow yogurt does b/c the protein matrix doesn't form the same with the lactic acid bacteria of the yogurt. Also the fat molecules are smaller, goat milk doesn't need to be homogenized to stay emulsified.

Personally I use raw grass fed milk and I cannot say enough about it. Search on my name for "raw milk" posts. Raw is completely different than pasteurized. I like to say raw milk is to pasteurized milk as breastmilk is to formula! But SCD does not require raw milk and in fact doesn't want you to make yogurt without heating it to 185 beforehand, which I do not do with raw so as not to kill the amino acids, some vitamins, immunoglobulins, enzymes and change the protein structure.

*Re: pork*

I hardly ever eat pork b/c of my reading of "Nourishing Traditions" but I guess the SCD works if you eat pork or not, as far as I know it's not inherently damaging to the intestines? NT's concern is the cancer issue, even with organic. The Maker's Diet forbids pork but really doesn't go into detail the scientific reason why.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
I was hoping that I would be free of the migraines at least, though.









Karen DeFelice's book talks all about migraines and using enzymes for it. There's barely anything on her site though www.enzymestuff.com


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
mama_b,
Here's the original link. I just read it through for the first time last week.








http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=295112

I feel so loved that this is still being read...









Everyone please say a special prayer for Moneca and Sierra, the poor bunny is still struggling.


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## ma2twins (Jan 6, 2006)

Jane ~ Thanks for the info. I wish I could do the raw milk but where I live i just don't know how to find that. This is the type of goats milk I buy http://www.goatmilkcanada.com/ ... is there anything I should ask them to make sure its a good product?

Would you be able to anwser my question a few posts up too







, TIA!!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Personally I use raw grass fed milk and I cannot say enough about it. Search on my name for "raw milk" posts. Raw is completely different than pasteurized. I like to say raw milk is to pasteurized milk as breastmilk is to formula! But SCD does not require raw milk and in fact doesn't want you to make yogurt without heating it to 185 beforehand, which I do not do with raw so as not to kill the amino acids, some vitamins, immunoglobulins, enzymes and change the protein structure.
My raw milk looked & smelled sooo good. I don't want to lose all the good stuff by heating it either! How do you do it?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375*
I'm reading stuff from Jordan Rubin, The Makers Diet is the 1 book I have, but I was reading reviews on his others. I recently purchased the Great Physician's RX. I've read reviews on him and that mainstream his ideas of eating dirt make him a quack, but I think he has a lot to offer in terms of healing the gut without having to eat his prescribed dirt!!!








Actually, I never got that he was prescribing people to eat dirt, just that our soil is deficient in quality therefore our foods are lacking -- thus restore soil, restore nutrition to food. And since we grow a good number of our own veggies and fruits from Apr thur Nov, I figured a good lesson in biochemistry of organic soil was in order -- not eating dirt as some critic so out of context put it. Anyway, Restoring Your Digestive Health is one I'd like to get my hands on as well.

I sometimes wonder if there is way to heal him for life without adhering to GF diet for life. I know scientific evidence is lacking, so I'm sort of forced to believe that he does infact need to be GF for life. But a part of me thinks this just can't be, I have a hard time with believing God designed my son to not be able to eat wheat and I can. Why is my son's design not perfect kind of question... Another part of me thinks that wheat grain in general isn't likely healthy for anyone now that it's been so hybrid and taken from it's natural design.

*See this link re: SCD and the Cure for Celiac Disease*
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ac_disease.htm

Rubin's Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotics recommended in The Maker's Diet are HSO's: Homeostatic Soil Organisms. We were talking about them a bit in the Nutrition/Immunology 101 thread in Vaccinations. There is so little scientific evidence about consuming them. The theory being that they are supposed to live on our produce in properly enriched soil, and we consume them that way, but chemical pesticides and such has killed them.

I think the evidence for lactic acid bacteria probiotics as a food source is much stronger and has a historical basis in food supplementation (Metchnikoff and the Bulgarians).

I think the idea that the body has been created a certain way does not take into consideration that we are now under significant assault from so many things that damage our gut and immune systems: vaccinations, chlorine in our water, mercury in our dental fillings, birth control pills, antibiotics and other medications, and the pesticides/herbicide/fungicides/antibiotics/hormones in our food. Not to mention that our food because of improper soil, breeding and storage practices doesn't even contain the amount of nutrients it is supposed to.

*I FULLY believe our bodies were meant to be disease free but that we are not eating the proper diet to support that:*
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html

Also, along the same lines of my food rants above, there is wheat and then there is wheat... traditional societies soaked whole grains or made long rising sourdough bread to remove digestive irritants but minerals remain intact. Our bodies were not meant to eat fluffy yeasted white bread devoid of nutrients. Or processed sugar, and a large amount of it too. Or trans fats. Or artificial colors. Etc. etc.

Our bodies are not meant to take everything we throw at it and continue on just the same.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok here we are on day 2 of scd.

I have had a lot happen in the past 24 hours so I thought I would update you.

Yesterday I noticed that I felt the same as I feel when I am fasting, except I'm not hungry. That is, I feel fuzzy headed. It is difficult to make complete sentences, esp when talking. I keep forgetting important words. I keep getting distracted from what I'm trying to do as well.

I saw my Dr yesterday and she confirmed that I do have a bad yeast rash on my bottom







and recomended zink and weleda diaper care cream to deal with it. (no idea why that zink had those extra ingredients she was shocked too and took it back to her office to look into it). She also offered me nystantin if I want it although she suggested waiting till a month or two into the diet to start it. I'm considering it. She didn't think I would stick with the diet. She doesn't know how badly I want more sleep. She also tested me for celiacs although we both think that by now it will probably come back negative even if I have it. Apparently the newest stats on that is 1 in 111 americans have celiacs!

Ok so fast forward to today. I went to my chiro. He was supposed to be starting me on some fertility enhancing stuff, but I told him about following the diet (he has read the book) and he decided we need to wait this out for a while. He put me on two things one to support my liver and one to support my gall bladder. I'll have to look up the names.

One more thing then I have to go rescue my upset dd from my dh. She is constipated, badly, for the first time in her life. Too much protein not enough veggies. What can I give her? Are stewed prunes ok?

Yep, sounds like die off to me! Fuzzy head is familiar.

That's cool that you are seeing a chiro too, herbal support can do a lot too. Like Firefaery said, you can add things to the diet to enhance healing.

RE: constipation
If all you have is stewed prunes, they are okay as long as no sugars, I would puree them if she is having digestive issues though b/c of the skins. You can also boil down prune juice and put in orange juice .... see constipation links here in Knowledge Base:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ase/a_to_f.htm

Die off can increase constipation. C is also a symptom of imbalanced gut flora just as diarrhea is.

Magnesium can be helpful for constipation too but I really dont' know if it's irritating to the gut. My DS doesn't do well on it.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ma2twins*
I shouldn't have used the word "allergy"... i guess its more of a sensativity since I never knew I was "sensative" to it until I was tested for allergies. Very interesting about the raw dairy though. It makes me sad cause I odn't know where I can get raw dairy here in Winnipeg. When I was living in Nova Scotia I had a raw goat farmer right in my town and we did eat the yogurt. I LOVE cheese and yogurt so if I could eat it and still be healthy I would be THRILLED!!!... Now I just need to find out how I can get it.

Oh do you all do organic meat? I just cannot afford organic meat, there is just no way. For a pound of beef its 8$ and for a little tiny chicken its 12$. I guess that would help me eat less portion. Because I couldn't afford meat I figured I just wouldn't eat it. I do eat wild salmon though. So if I can't get organic meat does that mean I shouldn't consume meat, how does that work?

(Wow, you sure do make some cute kids







)

Yeah, raw milk is technivally illegal in Canada, it's soooo bizarre! Sometimes you can find a cow share type thing I think.
Here are some links for cheeses though: http://www.realmilk.com/where-other.html#can
You can also contact your Weston Price chapter leader:
http://www.westonaprice.org/localcha...llist.html#can

The diet works if you don't do organic meat... but once you learn about the antibiotics that are in conventional meats it makes sense to try for organic. You also can do the diet as a vegetarian with cheese and eggs for protein. I used to be vegetarian, but I was more towards the dangerous vegan end of it...and all those whole grains, pulses and vegetable oils murdered my gut.

Alaskan salmon is excellent, very low to no mercury.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
DD seems to be EXTRA fussy today & did NOT sleep much at all last night. Is it normal for intolerances to certain foods to *really* be apparent at this stage? I'm suspecting tomato sauce in my diet. (scd legal)

We have an appt w/ a ped allergist/immunologist on Monday. Her violent reaction to the chicken prompted that. I hope I'm doing the right thing by going down this road. I'm so tired and worried and frstrated . . . Not to mention that I'm waiting for our hair samples to come which is only adding to the worry . . . and I'm feeling terribly guilty like I caused all of this by eating like crap while pregnant.







(I did not do this w/dd1).

Sorry for the pity party, it's just been an extra tough couple of days.









it's going to be hard before it gets better... the chicken thing must have been really scary though!

It could be certain foods or it could be die off, I've read some pretty bizarre tales of the die off period including weird colored poo!

Don't feel guilty, you are here now. Hey, we all feel guilty, we are MOTHERS that's what we do! Just put the energy into knowing as much as you can and doing what it takes to heal.

Personally I think things have to be bad in order to make (and keep) the real committment it takes to take control and heal.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I used a tbl. of Dannon for starter. I got some yummy looking & smelling milk. I think I've got a good batch going right now.









Crossing my fingers for you!









Isn't it a 1/4 cup per quart of milk? I forget b/c it's been so long since I've used yogurt to start...


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ma2twins*
Jane ~ Thanks for the info. I wish I could do the raw milk but where I live i just don't know how to find that. This is the type of goats milk I buy http://www.goatmilkcanada.com/ ... is there anything I should ask them to make sure its a good product?

Would you be able to anwser my question a few posts up too







, TIA!!

It looks pretty good to me! Raw milk is not required, 24 hr. yogurt is still very healing if made from pasteurized milk.

I think I've caught up







:

So if you (or anyone else) asked something I missed, let me know the post #!








:


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
My raw milk looked & smelled sooo good. I don't want to lose all the good stuff by heating it either! How do you do it?

I just warm the milk up to 110 by immersing the jar (I have 2 qt sized glass canning jars) in hot water and letting it sit. I just use hot tap water. Then add starter, and do the oven method.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ma2twins*
Quick question...
Ok i mentioned earlier that I have a sensativity to casein... does this mean I should NOT do the yoghurt? I honestly don't really know my sensitivity symptoms. I don't get headaches or diahrrea so how will know if it affects me. I found out about my sensativities through my natural nutritionalist. She tested me with the "Omega AcuBase" which uses a system of measurment known as the Galvanic Skin Response, or skin conductance, as an idicator of stress. Other things listed are whey, cow's milk & goats milk. So I am just wondering if with the process of making the yoghurt, will it make it ok to ingest & digest??
I know there is the dairy free portion of the SCD but I am just wondering if the yoghurt could be ok since I honestly don't see the results of eating dairy. I guess you could say I just feel unwell mentally from it, but I only noticed that since I have become more intune with my body!

The search function is so not working right now or I'd pull up the links I had posted a couple months ago in a tribe thread about goat casein being different...

Yogurt does predigest the proteins as well.

And just so you know, pasteurizing milk packs the casein micelles more closely together and makes them harder to digest, it changes their structure, another







for raw.

I think you just need to try the yogurt slowly. An imbalanced gut will make you mentally unwell too, I know!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2cias*
http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

Actually, kefir is pretty good. Too bad it's SCD illegal(but what isn't? geez)

Hey there, how are things?








Well actually I used kefir regardless before and after starting SCD and saw significant help. At some point, I lost my taste for it completely, and switched to yogurt, which I craved. Perhaps my body knew when it was time to change.

I do want people to know that the SCD is probably not the only diet on the block or the way to heal a gut... but it has worked for many and has a great deal of scientific evidence behind it. (Unlike The Maker's Diet, which borrows the best from SCD and NT, both very well researched in and of themselves, which I like to rant about from time to time.)

Plus you can have muffins, pancakes, cookies and cake on the SCD!









I know it's hard making the transition, but compared to what I was doing before this is heaven to me. It's more work but you feel so much better! And I find things like strawberry sauce (made out of frozen strawberries) that are so yummy and are easy to make.

Speaking of cake, my next mission is to try to make a chocolate cake









Now this, out of any of my 500 posts tonight, will really get everyone's attention.









I made actual "Pecan Bread" out of homemade pecan nut butter with no sweetner and it actually smells like chocolate to me. So I'm going to experiment, perhaps with pureed dates or prunes to add more richness. Not sure when this is going to be as I am fresh out of pecans right now...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
The guy at the hfs told dh I should be eating kefir







& that the milk he sold me will seperate & that the yogurt will turn out looking curdled when it's done









Then he said something that made me laugh. Granted, I am new at this but this just sounded







: That kefir has a left spriral and yogurt has a right spiral which was his reasoning for dh to buy some kefir too. (I know kefir is scd illegal.) Anybody ever heard of this?

I think he was





















'cause he didn't want to admit he sold us a rotten product.









Yep, he's pulling that explanation out of his







. Spiral?? WTF??









Kefir has beneficial yeasts, so in that way it is different than yogurt. This is a good overview of it:
http://www.mercola.com/forms/kefir.htm

I have used this kefir powder and liked it. It's not "real" kefir made from grains, which I also did, but I did see healing with the powder. (However, yogurt WILL indeed colonize the gut unlike what that link claims, it's been proven by research).

Store bought kefir is not strong enough to heal a damaged gut. Just like store bought yogurt.

I've made so much yogurt and kefir from several different kinds of milk and not once has it curdled.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I feel like I need more hand holding.

I made zuccini for dinner tonight. I peeled it (right?) but I couldn't figure out any way to deseed it. (they were very small Zuccini).

Also we are off the intro diet. Do we need to stick to the stages from pecan bread or can we just go ahead and eat everything now? Can we eat nuts now? All cooked fruits and veggies for now, right? Amazon still hasn't shipped my book







:

I was thrilled that my chiro was so supportive of me doing this diet. He hasn't ever seemed supportive of me doing an anti yeast diet but perhaps he just has so many patients fail at them.

One book I would recomend to everyone here is Dr Schwarzbein's The Program. It is about healing your metabolism. Many of the principles of her book can be applied to scd. Like every meal should contain a carb source and a protein. She is pretty strict about fruit and much prefers whole grains but I think that there is a ton of good info in her books (she is an endocrinologist who started healing her heart disease and type II diabetics with diet/lifestyle changes). Basically looking at the body from a different angle than scd or NT.

Anyhow. I managed to burn the stewed prunes. (made them myself from some unsulpherd prunes I had.) If this doesn't help I may follow those ideas about prune nectar etc. I'm just dying to get the book. I have so many questions!


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Thanks, JaneS, for taking the time to respond to all of our questions! I am taking this all in, ordering tons of books from my library, and planning some meals. I am also dealing with Chicken Pox in my not-quite-two-year old and watching for signs in the rest of the gang, so things are a bit crazy here!

Thanks again!
Michele


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## ma2twins (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
(Wow, you sure do make some cute kids







)

Aww Thanks







!! I agree, but then again I am biased







!! You got a beautiful little guy on your hands too. He has such beautiful eyes!!

Thank you SOO much for the info. I think I finally fully understand. I emailed the the people in my local chapter on from the Weston Price site, so hopefully they email me back with the info I need to hear. So please forgive me if this works if I come through the screen and kiss you, lol!

So far I have gotten the BTVC book (Dh is reading it right now at work though).
I got me a yoghurt maker and I got me some organic meat! Now I just need to do some meal planning and attempt to make this life changing yoghurt. I am so excited!!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Beautiful pugs too


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I think I've caught up

So if you (or anyone else) asked something I missed, let me know the post #!
You are awesome!









Quote:

Speaking of cake, my next mission is to try to make a chocolate cake
Now I'd pay big bucks for that recipie!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Can anyone please explain this to me? I just have a feeling dd is sensitive to apples. (I felt this long before elimination diets etc...) I don't do well w/apples either. However, I cooked some yesterday and tried them w/dd again because pears & bananas are getting old & I worry that too much of those will lead to problems too (?) Well, DD seemed to react to the apples.. Is this because of phenols?


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

That would be my guess. If that is the deal, enzymes will help immensely.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Boy, it's so hard to tell if it's that or not. DD now has some kind of respiratory thing happening (thanks to her big sister) and she's looking and feeling awful.
She takes an overall enzyme we got from our chiro called Chiro-Zyme D-GST. That is what I'm taking as well.
Gosh, how did you all figure all of this out for your dcs?


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

Aaaagh! I've heard the whole kefir left spiral yogurt right spiral thing before and I can't remember where now! Something to do with the kefir advocates believing that kefir is superior to yogurt because of that...maybe Dom's site? I'll have to look for it.

I got my hair test results back and using Andy Cutler's counting rules I've got a high probability of mercury toxicity. I qualified for one counting rule, and I'm pretty low on minerals despite eating the best diet I can think of. Selenium and manganese were in the red zone low. So I'm going to get these fillings out, chelate, and see what happens. I'll post my hair test results soon so you can all take a look and tell me what you think.

Does anyone know where I can get DMSA for chelation? I think until I get the mercury out of my body, I'll be battling yeast. We can't do nuts at all right now, DD is reacting to all of them with eczema. Ugh.


----------



## Mirzam (Sep 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *toraji*
Selenium and manganese were in the red zone low. So I'm going to get these fillings out, chelate, and see what happens. I'll post my hair test results soon so you can all take a look and tell me what you think.


Have you been following this tread over on the Vaccine board, tons of info on selenium and other minerals?

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=406983

Quote:

the key with selenium is that NOT ONLY is it a "turn-off" for viruses, it is the key to good immune function and the excretion of toxic chemicals and metals.

While it protects against the toxic effects of the pollutant cadmium, and mercury from all sources, it also increases the effectiveness of vitamin E, and it reduces the chances of all types of cancer. It is an antioxidant that helps prevent chromosome breakage in tissue culture. In communities where selenium intake is low, the cancer rate is high.

An adequate intake of selenium for animals is 200 parts per billion, and this is probably sufficient for man. But I don't know how to translate that into a dose. So I wouldn't go beyond 200 mcgs. It is however, crucial for the proper functioning of the human body beign a primary promoter of human cells mitosis/meiosis, and human "growth".


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I feel like I need more hand holding.

I made zuccini for dinner tonight. I peeled it (right?) but I couldn't figure out any way to deseed it. (they were very small Zuccini).

Also we are off the intro diet. Do we need to stick to the stages from pecan bread or can we just go ahead and eat everything now? Can we eat nuts now? All cooked fruits and veggies for now, right? Amazon still hasn't shipped my book







:

I was thrilled that my chiro was so supportive of me doing this diet. He hasn't ever seemed supportive of me doing an anti yeast diet but perhaps he just has so many patients fail at them.

One book I would recomend to everyone here is Dr Schwarzbein's The Program. It is about healing your metabolism. Many of the principles of her book can be applied to scd. Like every meal should contain a carb source and a protein. She is pretty strict about fruit and much prefers whole grains but I think that there is a ton of good info in her books (she is an endocrinologist who started healing her heart disease and type II diabetics with diet/lifestyle changes). Basically looking at the body from a different angle than scd or NT.

Anyhow. I managed to burn the stewed prunes. (made them myself from some unsulpherd prunes I had.) If this doesn't help I may follow those ideas about prune nectar etc. I'm just dying to get the book. I have so many questions!

I think zucchini seeds are so tiny they are okay, especially if they are small seeds and not the big huge ones. My DS is okay on them and that's saying alot! But yes, stay on cooked fruits and veggies for a while, they will be easier to digest and not feed the yeast.

Speaking of zucchini, I made the zucchini noodles from BTVC for the first time last night and they actually didn't taste like zucchini, tasted more noodle-y than spaghetti squash.

You don't have to follow the Pecanbread stages, they are just there for tough cases and sensitive tummies. It's worth it to be aware of it though... the WORST THING is having to backtrack all over again. If you do start nuts, start with nut milk and nut butter though, don't go to flour or whole nuts yet. I make my own nut butter by just whizzing up in food processor. Some nuts, like cashews you need to add little oil to finish and make it smooth.

I've made the Midas Gold pancake recipe on Pecanbread with equal amount of nut butter as the recipe called for flour and they've turned out fine. I like the fine texture that the nut butter gives baked goods.

I've read some of Schwarzbein's stuff a long time ago. Her approach makes sense for diabetes and hypoglycemia, she is very focused on food and insulin reaction.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Can anyone please explain this to me? I just have a feeling dd is sensitive to apples. (I felt this long before elimination diets etc...) I don't do well w/apples either. However, I cooked some yesterday and tried them w/dd again because pears & bananas are getting old & I worry that too much of those will lead to problems too (?) Well, DD seemed to react to the apples.. Is this because of phenols?

I remember also reading that apples have a particular component in them that is hard to digest... the brain is failing.

What kind of reaction?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *toraji*
Aaaagh! I've heard the whole kefir left spiral yogurt right spiral thing before and I can't remember where now! Something to do with the kefir advocates believing that kefir is superior to yogurt because of that...maybe Dom's site? I'll have to look for it.

I got my hair test results back and using Andy Cutler's counting rules I've got a high probability of mercury toxicity. I qualified for one counting rule, and I'm pretty low on minerals despite eating the best diet I can think of. Selenium and manganese were in the red zone low. So I'm going to get these fillings out, chelate, and see what happens. I'll post my hair test results soon so you can all take a look and tell me what you think.

Does anyone know where I can get DMSA for chelation? I think until I get the mercury out of my body, I'll be battling yeast. We can't do nuts at all right now, DD is reacting to all of them with eczema. Ugh.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this with respect to DS... it's hard to really figure out which came first: the toxins, the yeast/bacteria or the mineral deficiencies. Because a leaky gut will not break down and absorb the proper nutrients. And some enzymes won't work without proper minerals. Etc. etc.

DMSA sources here at the Autism-Mercury Yahoo group files: http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/
under "OBTAINING and USING CHELATION AGENTS"

Brazil nuts for selenium, but who knows whether they are grown in selenium rich soil too. The best selenium supplement is selenomethione, it's the yeast free version. Source Naturals is the one I use.

DS is low in manganese too, I have no idea what food sources contain that.


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## mama_b (Dec 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
mama_b,
Here's the original link. I just read it through for the first time last week.








http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=295112

Thanks.


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## mimim (Nov 2, 2003)

Been lurking here for a while now. I've been trying to get rid of a yeast overgrowth for 8 months, my DD is very rashy, and my oldest is on the autism spectrum.

I'm wondering what the time frame for gut healing is?
How long are you staying on this diet?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimim*
Been lurking here for a while now. I've been trying to get rid of a yeast overgrowth for 8 months, my DD is very rashy, and my oldest is on the autism spectrum.

I'm wondering what the time frame for gut healing is?
How long are you staying on this diet?











SCD recommends a year on the diet after the last symptom disappears.

I think Karen DeFelice's books www.enzymestuff.com says leaky guts can heal anywhere from 3-18 months (using enzymes and other things too).

It really is so individual.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I don't have access for one day and can't keep up...

Manganese -- I've read that it is necessary for absorbing magnesium. Magnesium deficiencies are hard to diagnose, but if you are low in manganese, I would suspect it.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *GaleForce*
I don't have access for one day and can't keep up...
Geez, I leave for a couple of hours and can't keep up!









Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I remember also reading that apples have a particular component in them that is hard to digest... the brain is failing.

What kind of reaction?
The red rings around eyes again (no dark circles this time) and WORSE sleeplessness. (As if it could get any worse.)

Some good news though: DD is not constipated anymore







and actually had good poopies 3 days in a row!

On to the reason for the post:

I have been taking an illegal prenatal vitamin and know I should change that. Can anyone recommend what to get? Also, do I need anything for dd? (10 months old)
OR . ..
should I wait until our hair tests come back and then do something about supplements?

I just feel like it's time to start thinking about these things too. (If my brain can handle more input that is!)


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Zucchini seeds are easy. Cut the zuc in half long ways and then use your finger to dig it out--just slide up and down the zuc. I do this over the garbage can.

Well, we are getting close to starting the diet







We were waiting on our tax return to buy all the stuff to get started. Luckily I already have the progurt starter, so that eliminates a good $45.

I know it is hard, but I was wondering if someone could help me w/an intro list of things to start out w/. Please keep in mind I haven't read BTVC in a couple of months, so feel free to tell me to go back and read it if I'm asking a "dumb" question.

So, I'm thinking we want/need:
*quercetin powder
*enzymes (what is this about, what do you recommend)
*yogurt starter and yogurt maker or acceptable alternative
*probiotics (any good non-dairy ones, I know Primal defense, which is what we use, is illegial)
*the fancy clay, forget the name
*the carbo whatever liquid to go w/the clay
*psyllium husks
*epsom salts

Anything else that is not food that I should buy?? Personally, since we don't do dairy, I'm going to buy that huge container of coconut milk that someone else recommended---the powder w/no guar or soy lec. in it.

Oh, and I don't remember, but are herbs allowed on the diet? As when I was pregnant w/my lil' guy, I didn't do prentals but herbs. I made a strong infusion that I sweetened w/honey. I used: red rasp leaf, nettles, oatstraw, alfalfa, dandelion root, burdock root, chamomille, and red clover.

Oh, should we get tested for metals and such? We're changing doctors, and the new one actually seems to have a clue from what my friends have told me. He understands nutrition. Weird, I know. So if I can get insurance to cover "it" and (what exactly should I ask for), I'd like to do it. I also know that someone somewhere on MDC posted about a place where I could do this w/o a dr's order, but I don't remember where I saw it. Anyone know what I'm talking about???

thanks
Amy


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Oh, should we get tested for metals and such? We're changing doctors, and the new one actually seems to have a clue from what my friends have told me. He understands nutrition. Weird, I know. So if I can get insurance to cover "it" and (what exactly should I ask for), I'd like to do it. I also know that someone somewhere on MDC posted about a place where I could do this w/o a dr's order, but I don't remember where I saw it. Anyone know what I'm talking about???
Yes, we had ours done and we sent them to a lab that Jane recommended and now I can't find the link and the name escapes me. It cost $95 per sample. I'm waiting for our results. I think it's DoctorsData.

I had dd's and mine tested because I STUPIDLY had amalgam fillings removed when dd was only 3 months old. This, combined with her symptoms, prompted me to test.

ETA: Going to bed. If any of you pray at all, can I ask you to say a small prayer that dd & I (and the rest of my family) get some sleep tonight?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So I'm feeling much better today and wondering if I quit the intro diet too quickly. We only did it for about 24 hours. Plus I think I added banana earlier than that cause I was confused. Ugh!

I'm 9dpo today. All this die off can't be good for early in a pg right? Should I keep going and perhaps go back to the intro for a couple more days or what? I'll know soon if I am pg...


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I take bentonite clay to get me through die-off. It is a clay that is charged so that it attracts the toxins in the gut and carries them out so you don't feel so yucky. I use pascalite which is a calcium based clay (as opposed to sodium based) that has a ton of trace minerals and is a living clay with healing properties. It helps repair the gut lining as it detoxifies. I'm pregnant now and while I watch the die off and support myself through it I believe that getting it out and growing a baby in a healthy body is more important that waiting until after I give birth to do it. Just my .02.

AmyD-I use houston nutraceuticals for enzymes. We do all three. I'm sure Jane has linked you there. In terms of why to take them you can find that on the site www.enzymestuff.com
Psyllium husks were far to difficult for me to do on this diet...but my damage was pretty significant. Just my words of warning!


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

I took my boys to the Pedi GI today. My Celiac for a weight and height check and my oldest to get the CD panel blood lab request forms.
DS1 has constipation issues, making him late for school frequently, he's even been known as a 4 yr old to fall asleep on the toilet







but not really funny... As a baby 1 stool every 5-7 days and I was told that was normal, he was on soy formula. I have bf my other babies, but I still don't see 1 stool every week being normal.
The GI doc of course wants to fix this problem for him with medication. I'm not inclined to see this as necessary, however, the theory of the 2 part process is worth consideration. 1) get what's in the colon out and 2) daily therapy. Of course this is a medication induced clean out followed by daily laxative -- not interested in making my kid dependent on prescription medications for life. I want the problem solved at the cause not just cover the symptoms. The cause may very well be CD at which point I would assume the GF diet would fix most of this (maybe). On the other hand, the GF diet is constipative for some... so it's hard to say. [blood work will be drawn next week sometime]
So, any suggestions to solving this constipative problem from a causal perspective are welcome as well as herbal treatments for the symptoms. I have to admit I've been a bit laid back about forcing him to eat the good stuff. I do not agree that kids should be forced to eat, however, there are times here lately that I'm really having to do via coaxing this for the health and well being of them, especially my CD child. I bribe my ds2 with raspberries







If he eats is meat (veggies are not an issue), he can have the raspberries -- who bribes their kid with fruit???
Anyway, 2 children, 2 different issues -- 1 eats hardly any fruit or veggies and the other hardly eats anything but...


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quick thought here...re-establishing good gut function and flora will solve the constipation problem. It's likely just a result of the damage. Could be bacterial overgrowth or infection, but the diet would help with that to some extent. We had the same issues...ds went 19 days (only once) without a bm. It was terrifying. We did craniosacral therapy to get bowels moving along with homeopathy and dietary changes. We no longer have an issue. There are complications that you may be looking at (encopresis-but I think you'd know that by now?) that would require further efforts on your part. And yes, there are plenty of natural things you can do, but I'd have to know more before I suggested anything. One thing you can try off the bat is castor oil packs on his belly to help with the inflammation. Very comforting and effective.
It will be much easier for you if both kiddos are on the diet together. Then you don't have to think about their different and separate needs. Let me know if I can offer anything else.


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## ma2twins (Jan 6, 2006)

I don't know if this has been done before, I am sure it has but for some of you senior SC Dieters, could you give me some menu ideas. I know everyone is different with their issues and what you can and can't have but just an idea would be great to get started. I can't find the proper dairy for this diet though I am in the process of making my first batch of yoghurt (YAY). The only other dairy I guess that would be suitable would be goat cheese since I can get it (but it isn't raw). I just don't want to do cow's dairy right now.

So what are your favorite meal while doing this diet???









Also since my only issues are really leaky gut/candida/poor absorption of nutrients/food sensativies... what suppliments are important for me to be taking??


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

AmyD, those things you listed, most of them are not SCD-specific, except the yogurt starter and maker. Psyllium husks are actually illegal on SCD, not sure about all the herbs but nettles and burdock root definitely are. See: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...llegal_d-n.htm
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...llegal_a-c.htm

I so wish we could afford the hair test, but we're on a tight budget, and all the money we spend on SCD food leaves us with next to nothing for anything besides rent and utilities. I so hate being poor!

Here's a link to an SCD meal planning thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...53#post4659253


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I have yogurt! It's pretty good too.









How long will it last in the fridge?


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## Emmama (Jan 21, 2004)

Hello everyone. I have not read all of the thread yet, lol, but I wanted to post anyway. I posted a thread in H&H about my 3 yo being very aggressive. There are other things though. I have suffered from canker sores and periodontal disease. My kids have cradle cap and eczema spots. I have rosacea and highly sensitive skin, and also a perpetual vaginal yeast infection that won't go away.

Our nutrition has been horrible, and I have always wanted to eat and feed my kids better, we fall back into our old crappy eating habits. I really want to cure us and to have my 3 yo happy again (he is for the most part, but it is like a switch goes off and it is getting worse the older he gets.) I just feel so bad that this has been going on for so long and that I am the one that caused it all due to what I feed my kids










Where do I start? It seems so expensive...feingold program, minerals, oils, etc. I do not have access to a Naturopath, so I need to know which diet to do. My kids are not going to like this at all. My dd will eat veggies but my ds' run away from anything healthy.

I am also on my own right now, is there an easy way to prepare the meals? Any place I can get recipes, meal plans, lists of foods to have on-hand?

Thanks!


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Quick thought here...re-establishing good gut function and flora will solve the constipation problem. .....
It will be much easier for you if both kiddos are on the diet together. Then you don't have to think about their different and separate needs. Let me know if I can offer anything else.

Thanks for the response and the fact I found it







I haven't put all the kiddos on the GF diet b/c the mistake made with ds2 was that he took him off, healed his gut and now in order to get a clean clear medical dx of CD, he would have to eat wheat for 3mo followed by a biopsy -- um, no, not at this point... So, I have been keeping the oldest on wheat waiting for the appt for him, which is now done, followed by the lab draw, which will be done this week, followed by those results, which will be at least 3 wks from now, followed by a biopsy if the blood test indicate the need.

Regardless of the blood test and biopsy if we end up going that far, ds1 will be on the GF diet (last least for the summer b/c of our home being almost 100% GF). My dd is almost 100%GF due to eating what her brother (ds2) eats, and while I'd like to just make her GF as well, I'd also like lab test done to see if my suspicions are right.

Time... it all takes time... And trust me every day I give my oldest gluten, I cringe b/c I want him GF so badly.

At least dinner is the same for everybody -- GF. (with a very few limited exceptions)


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I understand. I refused to keep my kiddos on gluten. They tested positive on a blood test for all gluten containing grains even after being off gluten for awhile. The gold standard is the biopsy while on a gluten containing diet, but I couldn't do it. You are strong. I went for the genetic test instead which you don't need to be consuming gluten at all. It just tells you if you are genetically at risk. Since they are (and I have all the symptoms as well, as does my mother and my grandfather) our doc just diagnosed us. We're really lucky to have her. She also gave ds a medical exemption for vax's due to an egg allergy. I love her!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

AmyD, there are pleny of things we used that weren't SCD specific that really helped us. I would just caution against (as I already have ) psyllium husks.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

My dd who normally wakes after at most 2.5 hours of sleep to nurse the rest of the night slept for 5 hours straight last night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND I was asleep for 3 of them!!!!!! AND when I woke up this morning she was asleep beside me and not latched on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND she is still asleep in bed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but now she is up.

bbl


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Emmama, you'll fit right in here! And trust me, the food is really good and doesn't taste "healthy" or "deprivation-y"







My kiddos really love the food. There are a BILLION free sites with great recipes. I want to say www.scdiet.com is one. Just google specific carbohydrate diet and you will come up with a bunch. Also, get the book. IT's pretty inexpensive, and most libraries have it.
I was not personally helped by an ND though some find their testing to be helpful. This is a great diet that really addresses the root cause of the problem, unlike the Feingold Diet which just eliminates problem foods and additives. It really isn't expensive at all unless you opt for additional supplements which aren't even really recommended. Making yogurt for your probiotic is easy and cheap. Vitamins aren't terribly pricy. Everything else is just additional help. I really think from reading your posts that enzymes would be helpful in your case, but you can read more and evaluate as needed. Good Luck! It's alot easier to do it with these fabulous mamas behind you...and it's totally worth it for a happier dc.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

On the question about apples....

apples are high in phenols. Our son takes one no phenol pill with every meal and one with martinelli's apple cider. Houston's no phenol enzyme is supposed to be coming out in a chewable form soon. Until then, those who have children who can't swallow a pill are opening up the no phenol capsule and mixing it with peanut butter or yogurt or something.

Which brings me to another question. My son self restricts his diet and his only fruit source is apple cider. I just read the label and it says one lg. bottle of Martinelli's contains 93g of sugars. Now, he doesn't usually drink the bottle all in one sitting, but, if this is his only source of sugar and his only source of fruit, how would I determine how much of this is alright to have and how often? Could I still consider him low sugar if he drank 62g of sugar in his apple cider every two days? Will drinking this stuff prevent Candex and other yeast fighters from working? He weighs 152 lbs.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

tell me more about the clay. Where can I get it? What do I look for? How do I take it?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

In theory, because it's a monosaccharide it doesn't sit around to help the yeast grow...it's absorbed straight away.
That said, it is lacking in fiber. Can you hide fruit elsewhere? Muffins, pancakes, breads, cobblers? Will he eat applesauce? Have you tried smoothies? It is important to get a variety for the nutrients. He may start to change after a bit longer on the diet...


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Google Pascalite for some good info. It's about $10 for a pound and we use it CONSTANTLY. We brush our teeth with it (helps with remineralization) we take it as a supplement, use it in sickness (diarrhea/constipation), as a facial mask, to draw out toxins after a bee sting or insect bite...it's incredible. You would take about 1/4 tsp. two or three times a day for the die-off.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Is the jars of applesauce I buy that has just apples legal? No apple juice concentrate, just apples.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originallly Posted by *Emmama*
I am also on my own right now, is there an easy way to prepare the meals? Any place I can get recipes, meal plans, lists of foods to have on-hand?
Tons of recipies here:
http://www.scdiet.org/2recipes/

Legal/Illegal food list:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...llegal_a-c.htm


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by

Quote:

Pattyla
My dd who normally wakes after at most 2.5 hours of sleep to nurse the rest of the night slept for 5 hours straight last night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND I was asleep for 3 of them!!!!!! AND when I woke up this morning she was asleep beside me and not latched on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND she is still asleep in bed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but now she is up.

bbl








Yay! (But I'm so envious!







)


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

The GI doc we saw yesterday said apple sauce can contribute to constipation, the pectin specifically. I asked 'even all natural, just apples?' I don't think he knows anything about that b/c he said it is the pectin. If I mash apples up partly cooked and call it apple sauce -- I don't think that is going to contribute to constipation








Someone can clarify if I'm wrong and that some chemical reaction occurs during the heating process...
There is so much here it's hard to keep up. Sometime maybe there should be a forum called Healing the Gut within the Health section and then these questions can all be separated out in a format easy to find and follow...

Question -- Should I check Zinc on the lab reports to have it checked? The doc specifically running down the list said, no we don't need that... He made a copy of the form, so if I check it, it might sound off some alarms, but if he needs it done -- I'll deal with the maybe it might red flag later. This is my ds1 with constipation and possible CD based on ds2 having it.


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

You mamas are wonderful! Thanks for the help!

uccomama: I have indeed been following that thread...it is so amazing and overwhelming. I am digesting it bit by bit.

JaneS: PERFECT! That is exactly what I was looking for. I have an appt with a local dentist on Tuesday for an eval and will soon have these metal nasties out of my mouth. Then I can start chelating.

OK so I was wrong about my selenium being that low...though it was one of the elements pulled out to discuss in my patient report so that would explain why I thought I was so bad off. I posted my hair test results to my Flickr account here: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...3476515&size=o
use this link if the above does not work: http://static.flickr.com/29/103476515_f0e7be69df_o.gif
I am red-zone low in manganese, lithium, cobalt, and zirconium.
Most are in the yellow zone or green zone low side.
I just went to the HFS and got a 200 mcg selenium that is yeast based as it was the only one they had. I got a bit freaked out so wanted to get one as soon as possible.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

toraji,

With those low mineral levels and a relatively high mineral diet you have been on, have you revisited some of the basics on digestion? Hydrochloric acid? Ezymes? And you're on this thread so obviously gut issues are on your mind.

That lithium result surprises me. How much do you eat in the way of animal products? Lithium is fairly abundant in eggs and milk.

What does the lab say about the iodine? Is hair a good indicator? How's your thyroid?

Based on my own experiences and crises, I wonder to what degree it is possible through diet alone to remedy major mineral deficiencies. I've been on a good diet for three years now and am still low in magnesium. I should have supplemented in the beginning but thought I'd be fine with food sources.

Amanda


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Just thought I'd post this list of places to find recipies. I found it on another board & wanted to share:









SCD Taste and Tradition = cookbook by Rochel Weiss www.digestivewellness.com
Lucy's Specific Carbohydrate Diet = cookbook by Lucy Rosset
www.Lucyskitchenshop.com
Breaking the Vicious Cycle by Elaine Gottschall
www.SCDrecipes.com
www.SCDiet.org
www.pecanbread.com
www.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCDrecipes
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/pecanbread


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Electra375: The docs not wrong...apples can be constipating whether raw or cooked. You'd think that the amount of fiber would change that, but it doesn't for everyone. If you suspect that it's a problem try eliminating them and see what happens.
Zinc is necessary for tissue repair and growth...essential for those with a damaged gut. It's pretty easy to check yourself...it's one of the minerals that you can taste if you aren't deficient. In other words,if you put liquid zinc in your mouth and don't taste metal, you need it. I would say (IMO) if you're getting a bunch of tests already and wil have the blood available, why not? If you aren't okay with asking the doc to add it though, you can find out for yourself. Just be careful.. Overdosing on zinc is BAD. A healthy adult can take 25-30 mg a day, I never give my kids more than 10-15, and that's if they're sick. Normally I just do 5 mg a day for them.

Amanda: that's a good question. I think part of it depends of the severity of damage. Even though my gut is healing I still have significant problems with absorption. It certainly hasn't been years for me, but I think it will take quite some time to build up stores. Especially since any I had were long gone...I had all of my severe symptoms for over a decade. For me I believe it will be very important to supplement to get everything I can to heal (cause you can't without them!) Once I am "back" and my stores are up I hope to be able to get the vast majority through diet. Magnesium is one I worry about. It seems very difficult to get an adequate amount in diet alone.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

The correct link above should be http://www.scdrecipe.com/


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
The red rings around eyes again (no dark circles this time) and WORSE sleeplessness. (As if it could get any worse.)

Some good news though: DD is not constipated anymore







and actually had good poopies 3 days in a row!

On to the reason for the post:

I have been taking an illegal prenatal vitamin and know I should change that. Can anyone recommend what to get? Also, do I need anything for dd? (10 months old)
OR . ..
should I wait until our hair tests come back and then do something about supplements?

I just feel like it's time to start thinking about these things too. (If my brain can handle more input that is!)

She should be on the upswing... that is what usually happens with my DS. If the poop comes out good, then I know the next day will be better!

Red rings were signs of die off in my DS.

I would concentrate on you as far as supplementing vit/minerals and then your BM will be excellent. Are you taking CLO?

There are legal vitamins listed at Pecanbread.com but honestly I'm getting down on a multi lately. I think minerals and certain forms of vitamins A, D & C. A & D from cod liver oil, I like Carlson's naturals pills. The C in a natural powder including bioflavonoids or taking sodium ascorbate balanced with extra bioflav. when sick. The multi's always seem to have something I don't want, filler or a version of a vitamin I don't want to take. Makes life difficult


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
So, I'm thinking we want/need:
*quercetin powder
*enzymes (what is this about, what do you recommend)
*yogurt starter and yogurt maker or acceptable alternative
*probiotics (any good non-dairy ones, I know Primal defense, which is what we use, is illegial)
*the fancy clay, forget the name
*the carbo whatever liquid to go w/the clay
*psyllium husks
*epsom salts

Anything else that is not food that I should buy?? Personally, since we don't do dairy, I'm going to buy that huge container of coconut milk that someone else recommended---the powder w/no guar or soy lec. in it.

Oh, and I don't remember, but are herbs allowed on the diet? As when I was pregnant w/my lil' guy, I didn't do prentals but herbs. I made a strong infusion that I sweetened w/honey. I used: red rasp leaf, nettles, oatstraw, alfalfa, dandelion root, burdock root, chamomille, and red clover.

Oh, should we get tested for metals and such? We're changing doctors, and the new one actually seems to have a clue from what my friends have told me. He understands nutrition. Weird, I know. So if I can get insurance to cover "it" and (what exactly should I ask for), I'd like to do it. I also know that someone somewhere on MDC posted about a place where I could do this w/o a dr's order, but I don't remember where I saw it. Anyone know what I'm talking about???

thanks
Amy

The only non dairy acidophilus capsule I know of is from Kirkman's.

I don't use my yogurt maker anymore, I use the oven method and love it. I posted my procedure several pages ago this month if you wouldn't mind searching... the Search function is kaput lately!

Enzymes www.enzymestuff.com and another post to you to read her book!







More on epsom salts on her website too, they are in any grocery or drug store.

Re: epsom salts
I looked this up again... I think my DS's issues with e.s. is the sulfur. He is already high in sulfur. Sulfur is excellent for detox, but to someone who is already high, it's a problem to supplement.

I really like Houston's enzymes: www.houstonni.com

Zyme Prime is the all around for carbs, fats, proteins.
Peptizyde is high proteases for gluten/dairy proteins and when given between meals mops up yeast die off and bacterial issues, also inflammation, migraines, many other auto immune conditions.
No Fenol is high cellulase for phenolic fruits/veggies given with food and for combating yeast given between meals.
I think the clay/psyllium/caprilyic acid combo you are thinking about is from www.wholeapproach.com. They have an entire candida program and diet. I did the combo for a month, while eating grains mind you, it was okay I guess, don't remember it being so fabulous that I wanted to continue. The SCD worked so much better.

Cod liver oil is essential in my mind too. Nordic Naturals is the most palatable but I supplement with extra A & D from Carlson's natural pills when we use it.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Enzymedica enzymes are very good too: www.enzymedica.com

V-gest is the all around that is low in proteases, very good to start a sensitive person on. Digest and Digest Gold are all arounds that are stronger.

Virastop is their high protease enzyme. There is an interesting trial going on now using high amounts to kill off stored viruses in the body at Enzymes and Autism Yahoo group.

Candidase is a mix of cellulase and proteases designed to be given between meals to combat yeast.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Fat Wallet has a VIP link to Vitamin Shoppe website where you can get 40% off, less than their usual prices:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/mess...hreadid=264417

See link to Vitamin Shoppe in the first post by "fivetalents" and then below for codes to get extra money off.

You can get Carlsons, Nordic Naturals, Enzymedica, my favorite Shikai shower gels...


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

No kidding it is a high amount of virastop! We started the antiviral protocol before we realized that the aut & merc group are giving up to 20 capsules of virastop a day! We already invested about $150 in various antiviral supplements, then $40 for one bottle of Virastop. If we slowly up the dosage to 18 or 20 virastop a day, it will cost $570 dollars (from iherb) to do a three month trial. They do these "trials" occasionally whenever they suspect viral issues. This is a lot based on observing symptoms. I have a call into enzymatica to get a price break. I'll let you know how that goes....


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Quote:

That said, it is lacking in fiber. Can you hide fruit elsewhere? Muffins, pancakes, breads, cobblers? Will he eat applesauce?
He may do fruits hidden in muffins or breads. That is a great idea! I need to hide fruit in breads, like applesause. I think there already is applesause in our kinnikinick bread, which he eats. So, there is a source I forgot about. He may do cobblers, (but aren't those made with sugar?). He will not do pancakes or applesause.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

I give ds psyllium husk capsule (one a day) for fiber....I started it when the d-lactate probiotics gave him diarrea....and the magnesium supplement gave him diarrea. I thought that getting magnesium was important, so I would firm up the stools with psyllium to get away with giving more magnesium.







:

It worked


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Red rings were signs of die off in my DS.

I would concentrate on you as far as supplementing vit/minerals and then your BM will be excellent. Are you taking CLO?
How long will die off last?

Can I get clo at a hfs? Does it have to be a special kind?


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Not if they're done the SCD way! You can adapt almost any recipe. Just use almond flour, honey and butter for the topping. You can do a blackberry cobbler, peach, strawberry, whatever strikes his (or your!) fancy.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Magnesium is important, but loose stools are the body's way of saying "that's enough." It's like vitamin C. Once you see diarrhea, you back off on the dosage. If 1 tsp. is giving him stools that are too loose, cut back to 1/2 a tsp. Make sense?


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Yeah, makes sense. I'll stop the psyllium husks and I'll bet he's used to the mag. by now. We ran out of mag yesterday anyway. It will be Monday before I can get more mag.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I have yogurt! It's pretty good too.









How long will it last in the fridge?











Two weeks I think that is how long the bacteria stay as strong. Won't go bad in 3 weeks, but won't have as many critters.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Emmama*
Hello everyone. I have not read all of the thread yet, lol, but I wanted to post anyway. I posted a thread in H&H about my 3 yo being very aggressive. There are other things though. I have suffered from canker sores and periodontal disease. My kids have cradle cap and eczema spots. I have rosacea and highly sensitive skin, and also a perpetual vaginal yeast infection that won't go away.

Our nutrition has been horrible, and I have always wanted to eat and feed my kids better, we fall back into our old crappy eating habits. I really want to cure us and to have my 3 yo happy again (he is for the most part, but it is like a switch goes off and it is getting worse the older he gets.) I just feel so bad that this has been going on for so long and that I am the one that caused it all due to what I feed my kids









Where do I start? It seems so expensive...feingold program, minerals, oils, etc. I do not have access to a Naturopath, so I need to know which diet to do. My kids are not going to like this at all. My dd will eat veggies but my ds' run away from anything healthy.

I am also on my own right now, is there an easy way to prepare the meals? Any place I can get recipes, meal plans, lists of foods to have on-hand?

Thanks!









It must be so hard being a military mama right now, my heart really goes out to you and your family.

Don't beat yourself up re: food. All of us, me especially, have many things we've done in the past that we want to whack ourselves over the head for! You're here now, so use those feelings to learn.









I think the first thing you can do is start eating whole foods, no packaged foods. It is hard, and yes your kids are doing to have some adjusting to do. But there certainly are a lot of yummy nutritious and easy things you can start the transition with.

Diet and behavior are definately connected. Spend some time reading at the Weston Price foundation for nutritional advice, it's an eye opener.
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html

First, I think the easiest cheapest thing you can do is start making 24 hr. yogurt. I posted several pages back my oven method, you don't need a maker. You will get the strongest probiotics so you won't need to buy capsules. Experiment with yogurt smoothies for the kids with frozen fruit in blender (really easy). Peaches, orange juice and a banana. Cherries or strawberries and vanilla extract. They come out like ice cream smoothies. Call them that and the kids will sure to be interested!

If you are not ready to do the SCD, perhaps you can try to make some steps towards whole foods that are easier to digest. Such as ditching the packaged dry cereals and doing soaked oatmeal instead or nut butter pancakes. The banana pancakes on www.pecanbread.com are very yummy, I can't imagine a kid that wouldn't eat those.

You can add all sorts of things to oatmeal: apples and cinnamon, pineapple and coconut cream, blueberries/nutmeg/vanilla, peaches/vanilla. Honey is much better for the body than sugar because it's a whole food unlike white sugar, plus it won't feed the intestinal imbalances.

And if your DS won't eat carrots for example, make baby carrots with honey and butter and salt perhaps. Make a concession with adding honey to get him to like whole foods at first. Sneak pureed veggies or avocado into your meatloaf or meatball recipe. Muffins are another way to add pureed butternut squash for example.

Then make a list of things to try one at a time when you are ready: such as cod liver oil, magnesium, enzymes.

Keep reading and learning. It takes a while, there's nothing wrong with baby steps!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Yes, we had ours done and we sent them to a lab that Jane recommended and now I can't find the link and the name escapes me. It cost $95 per sample. I'm waiting for our results. I think it's DoctorsData.

The Hair Elements test
www.directlabs.com


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375*
The GI doc we saw yesterday said apple sauce can contribute to constipation, the pectin specifically. I asked 'even all natural, just apples?' I don't think he knows anything about that b/c he said it is the pectin. If I mash apples up partly cooked and call it apple sauce -- I don't think that is going to contribute to constipation








Someone can clarify if I'm wrong and that some chemical reaction occurs during the heating process...

I think he's talking out of his









That being said, apples do cause reactions in some b/c of the certain type of sugar that is high in them. Sorbitol? Can't remember. I've heard that Golden Delicious is the easiest to digest.

Quote:

There is so much here it's hard to keep up. Sometime maybe there should be a forum called Healing the Gut within the Health section and then these questions can all be separated out in a format easy to find and follow...
OY...you and me both!!!









... maybe if MDC offers to replace my earnings as a WAHM I'd moderate!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *toraji*
OK so I was wrong about my selenium being that low...though it was one of the elements pulled out to discuss in my patient report so that would explain why I thought I was so bad off. I posted my hair test results to my Flickr account here: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...3476515&size=o
use this link if the above does not work: http://static.flickr.com/29/103476515_f0e7be69df_o.gif
I am red-zone low in manganese, lithium, cobalt, and zirconium.
Most are in the yellow zone or green zone low side.
I just went to the HFS and got a 200 mcg selenium that is yeast based as it was the only one they had. I got a bit freaked out so wanted to get one as soon as possible.

Your selenium is not in the range expected so I guess it does seem low. But hair is not always indicative of mineral status as far as I know.

I think it's also because selenium is probably not in ANY foods anymore b/c of soil depletion.


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## ma2twins (Jan 6, 2006)

Just had to chime in here and say that I successfully made yoghurt!! Woo Hoo!!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths*
No kidding it is a high amount of virastop! We started the antiviral protocol before we realized that the aut & merc group are giving up to 20 capsules of virastop a day! We already invested about $150 in various antiviral supplements, then $40 for one bottle of Virastop. If we slowly up the dosage to 18 or 20 virastop a day, it will cost $570 dollars (from iherb) to do a three month trial. They do these "trials" occasionally whenever they suspect viral issues. This is a lot based on observing symptoms. I have a call into enzymatica to get a price break. I'll let you know how that goes....

20? Geez Louise!!!









I've only just gotten to doing ONE high protease enzyme between meals 2x/day without having speed cleaning jags and anxiety attacks!

(They make me hyper, must be all those amino acids they are releasing or something... never really got a definitive answer as to why this is.)


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
How long will die off last?

Can I get clo at a hfs? Does it have to be a special kind?

It's so individual. Also know that if you go off diet and increase the yeast/bacteria, you'll have to go thru die off all over again too.

Nordic Naturals is very good tasting and at most hfs. But I personally think it's low in A and D so I supplement those vits too making sure they are also from CLO source, I like Carlson's. Much cheaper at the FatWallet/Vitamin Shoppe link I posted above if you can get the 25% off too.

Garden of Life Old World cod liver oil is supposed to be higher vitamins but I don't know how it tastes.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ma2twins*
Just had to chime in here and say that I successfully made yoghurt!! Woo Hoo!!!

















Yay!

And for all the newbies the definitive yogurt thread here at MDC is "The Power of Probiotics" by goodpapa. Extraordinary info there.


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

I definitely think I've got digestive issues going on. To be quite honest, I am so sick of popping little pills. Both DH and I are of the camp that whole diets should heal all, though unless we are growing our food ourselves, then I'm not so sure now. But I think DH is going to throw me out if I bring another bottle home! Ay yi yi. I'm taking a multi-mineral, CLO, selenium, Vit. C w/bioflavenoids, and occasionally black currant seed oil.

I also strongly suspect a yeast problem. But I don't think it's going to go away until I get rid of the mercury.

Re: animal products, I eat meat at least once a day, usually twice. But none of my meals are completely vegan as I use animal fat to sautee and bone broths liberally. I don't do dairy at the moment as I get really stuffed up with it. Limited grains, usually once a day at the most. Mostly just ginormous salads, sauteed veggie dishes, and meat.

Lab didn't say anything about the iodine level, but I do suspect thyroid issues. That also supposedly has strong ties to mercury toxicity. Next time AF comes around I will test my temperature to see if I'm low.

One layer at a time...lol.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
toraji,

With those low mineral levels and a relatively high mineral diet you have been on, have you revisited some of the basics on digestion? Hydrochloric acid? Ezymes? And you're on this thread so obviously gut issues are on your mind.

That lithium result surprises me. How much do you eat in the way of animal products? Lithium is fairly abundant in eggs and milk.

What does the lab say about the iodine? Is hair a good indicator? How's your thyroid?

Based on my own experiences and crises, I wonder to what degree it is possible through diet alone to remedy major mineral deficiencies. I've been on a good diet for three years now and am still low in magnesium. I should have supplemented in the beginning but thought I'd be fine with food sources.

Amanda


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Annikate said:


> .
> 
> I had dd's and mine tested because I STUPIDLY had amalgam fillings removed when dd was only 3 months old. This, combined with her symptoms, prompted me to test.
> 
> ...


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *mom2zsel*
Annikate-I am still learning about this, so please excuse the possibly dumb question, but when should the fillings be removed? Why was it stupid to do it then?
Not a dumb question at all! I sure wish I had known about this much sooner than I did!

Amalgam (metal) fillings can leech mercury into your body (and breastmilk!) Having them removed while b'feeding can be especially dangerous if the proper protocols are not used. After learning about the safety precautions that should be taken I know my dentist did not follow them all (many dentists don't know this!) I did not know about all of the dangers then.









Turns out, mercury poisoning can cause some of the symptoms my dd is having so I decided to do the hair test & find out. (Still anxiously waiting for the results.)

Go to the dental forum & search amalgam fillings. You'll find lots of info there.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Okay so I'm going ti stop my prenatal today & get some clo, maybe some A & D, but what about the B vitamins? I don't want to be lacking the important ones especially since I'm b'feeding & now have AF too.









Any advice would be appreciated! I am following MT's thread but whew! can't absorb much of that right now.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok I'm needing to make more yougart before my machine gets here next week. The oven method doesn't work for me (too cold). I tried in a cooler w/warm water but I had to keep refreshing the water.

Any other ideas?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Moneca, back in September maybe? Posted a hot water bootle/electric hot pad method she swore by. I don't have time to search right now, but maybe someone else remembers?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I don't do a prenatal. I do, however, do a B complex vitamin being pregnant and nursing. You can get alot of B's in food, so it probably isn't necessary, but since I've had extensive damage I'm covering my bases. I use Designs for Health.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ugh! My yougart maker should be here monday but my book won't be here untill March 2!!! I wish I could tell them how to do the free shipping. UPS is always way quicker than USPS.







:


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Annikate...CLO has A & D. Just look for the brands that have the amounts you want. Carlson's is good-lots of both. There are other brands that I'm less familiar with that someone else could advise on, but you shouldn't need to do A & D separate from the CLO. At least I never have heard that.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Going by the brand Jane said tastes good - - is low in both A & D. I did find one that has higher levels but I'm afraid to get it if it's going to be horrible yk?
Is liquid just as effective as soft gels? I remember somebody saying they burped them up all day long.


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

I've been an occasional lurker on the healing the gut threads for awhile, but I'm sure I've missed a lot. Hope you don't mind me jumping in. My ds2 had a dairy allergy that healed with raw milk, probiotics, etc., but now he is reacting to tomatoes, possibly strawberries, and possibly oranges. I have read Breaking the Vicious Cycle, and am contemplating doing the program with him. Does anyone have any experience with these kinds of allergies? would the SCD help my ds? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

FWIW, we are currently on a NT/traditional foods diet.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

IMHO liquid is better than soft gels. You takeit straight without messing with the gelcaps. Carlson's is fine for us. We admittedly use the lemon which is not SCD legal because we pair it with enzymes. Pharmax makes a legal flavored one too, but I'd have to look at the vitamin content. I guess of you are taking one that is low in vitamins you should supplement...Which brand are you going with? I remember Jane talking about the Blue Ice I believe? Interested to hear other's feedback, though I'm not inclined to switch.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Here's what Jane said:

Quote:

Cod liver oil is essential in my mind too. Nordic Naturals is the most palatable but I supplement with extra A & D from Carlson's natural pills when we use it.
I think I'll go with this as I've not heard anybody else saying that the taste of their clo was decent & I sure don't want to taste it all day long!


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## Karry (Apr 10, 2002)

Hi, I'm new to this thread. My 4 yo ds has had FTT and constipation issues since he was 6 months old. He has been tested for celiac twice and has come up negative both times. He has also had an upper endoscopy that was negative. Blood work for allergies was also negative. I'm still not convinced that he does not have celiac. I'm considering trying to go GF with him, and myself. I'm thinking I may have it as well. I know a lot of you on here are on the SCD diet, and I'm thinking of getting the book. Where should I start with his diet? I'm not sure about eliminating dairy too right now, because he is not a big eater to begin with and if he's eating even less I'm afraid he'll start to lose weight. He doesn't drink milk only water, but likes yogurt and cheese. Thanks in advance for any input you could give.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok I'm needing to make more yougart before my machine gets here next week. The oven method doesn't work for me (too cold). I tried in a cooler w/warm water but I had to keep refreshing the water.

Any other ideas?

What about trying to put in a higher watt bulb in your oven to keep it warmer?

Someone also posted a crock pot method around here somewhere too. I think it was crock pot on low, leaving the top off, and putting several layers of hot pads underneath the jar and surrounding it with water.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

oops - double post.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Karry,
nak so will be short but the SCD allows homemade yogurt and some cheeses. I've only been doing this for 2 weeks & I feel a big difference myself and some + changes in dd. I highly recommend reading the book hanging around here w/ all these wise mamas!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
I've been an occasional lurker on the healing the gut threads for awhile, but I'm sure I've missed a lot. Hope you don't mind me jumping in. My ds2 had a dairy allergy that healed with raw milk, probiotics, etc., but now he is reacting to tomatoes, possibly strawberries, and possibly oranges. I have read Breaking the Vicious Cycle, and am contemplating doing the program with him. Does anyone have any experience with these kinds of allergies? would the SCD help my ds? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

FWIW, we are currently on a NT/traditional foods diet.

Hi Hibou!

Jump in anytime









I think it is possible that the SCD would help. What kind of reactions do you see?

Also you might want to consider enzymes: www.enzymestuff.com her books (they are both the same) are excellent at explaining the digestive system and dybiosis. Required reading IMO for any digestive and autoimmune conditions.

Houston's No Fenol in particular is made for fruits/veggies and phenol/yeast issues. www.houstonni.com

More info on the enzyme site too about phenols.

How's his poop? Do you think he has leaky gut?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Okay so I'm going ti stop my prenatal today & get some clo, maybe some A & D, but what about the B vitamins? I don't want to be lacking the important ones especially since I'm b'feeding & now have AF too.









Any advice would be appreciated! I am following MT's thread but whew! can't absorb much of that right now.

I'm taking a break from MT's thread too, it was making my head hurt!

I think one thing to take from it is the importance of minerals, especially when pg/bf'ing or detoxing.

I only know of individual minerals that are SCD legal. Trace Minerals is a good company but the one ionic mineral I tried, magnesium, was soooo







tasting. And the Cal/Mag/Zinc has sugar probably, it's very sweet.
http://www.traceminerals.com/products.html

But it seems like she is saying we need to be more individual when choosing them. But always selenium is low b/c our soil is so poor.

Magnesium deficiency is common. We should always be concerned about calcium. And also zinc is essential for a leaky gut, see firefaery's post above.

Bone broth are also essential IMO. They contain a lot of minerals in easily absorbed electrolyte form including a ton of calcium. Plus gelatin which is so healing for digestive issues.

I like to make a lot of soups with homemade bone broths. I boil them down after finished cooking so they are concentrated and don't take as much room in freezer, then add water when making soup. Or make sauces for meats with the reductions.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
IMHO liquid is better than soft gels. You takeit straight without messing with the gelcaps. Carlson's is fine for us. We admittedly use the lemon which is not SCD legal because we pair it with enzymes. Pharmax makes a legal flavored one too, but I'd have to look at the vitamin content. I guess of you are taking one that is low in vitamins you should supplement...Which brand are you going with? I remember Jane talking about the Blue Ice I believe? Interested to hear other's feedback, though I'm not inclined to switch.

I think liquids tend to be cheaper too... for the same amounts of DHA/EPA you have to take more capsules than the standard dosage. And they tend to be low in vitamins too.

Blue Ice is higher vitamins but only available a couple places online. We use the orange which is VERY fishy tasting and even I have to take it in juice. Apparently someone else posted that the cinnamon flavor is really yummy.

I like the Carlson's lemon too, but I would supplement with more A personally since it only has 1000 IU/teaspoon.

And as far as D goes, it's very hard to know what is good for you without blood testing and who has time/money for that! Mercola says that it's common to require 40,000 IU of D/day to maintain D blood levels over the winter if you are deficient, like most people are.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
But it seems like she is saying we need to be more individual when choosing them. But always selenium is low b/c our soil is so poor.

Magnesium deficiency is common. We should always be concerned about calcium. And also zinc is essential for a leaky gut, see firefaery's post above.

Bone broth are also essential IMO. They contain a lot of minerals in easily absorbed electrolyte form including a ton of calcium. Plus gelatin which is so healing for digestive issues.

I like to make a lot of soups with homemade bone broths. I boil them down after finished cooking so they are concentrated and don't take as much room in freezer, then add water when making soup. Or make sauces for meats with the reductions.
Thanks! This helps me so much! It's like the Cliff Notes to MT's thread. (Well, part of it anyway.)


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Hi Hibou!

Jump in anytime









I think it is possible that the SCD would help. What kind of reactions do you see?

Also you might want to consider enzymes: www.enzymestuff.com her books (they are both the same) are excellent at explaining the digestive system and dybiosis. Required reading IMO for any digestive and autoimmune conditions.

Houston's No Fenol in particular is made for fruits/veggies and phenol/yeast issues. www.houstonni.com

More info on the enzyme site too about phenols.

How's his poop? Do you think he has leaky gut?

Thanks JaneS for your response. I had a look at the enzyme site, and from what I can tell, what we are dealing with now is an allergy. The reaction is bright red cheeks and spots on his body. It is almost immediate, whereas the problem with dairy used to take several days to manifest itself as eczema. His poop is pretty normal. But come to think of it, his skin has been dry and itchy lately so that could indicate gut issues. Obviously there is a problem with his immune response, but I'm confused and not sure where to start. If we work on healing the gut, will that heal the allergic response? I'm going to read more on the enzyme site. Feeling really overwhelmed.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Karry*
Hi, I'm new to this thread. My 4 yo ds has had FTT and constipation issues since he was 6 months old. He has been tested for celiac twice and has come up negative both times. He has also had an upper endoscopy that was negative. Blood work for allergies was also negative. I'm still not convinced that he does not have celiac. I'm considering trying to go GF with him, and myself. I'm thinking I may have it as well. I know a lot of you on here are on the SCD diet, and I'm thinking of getting the book. Where should I start with his diet? I'm not sure about eliminating dairy too right now, because he is not a big eater to begin with and if he's eating even less I'm afraid he'll start to lose weight. He doesn't drink milk only water, but likes yogurt and cheese. Thanks in advance for any input you could give.

Hi Karry!









Celiac is damage to the intestinal villi (little fingerlike projections in small intestine that produce digestive enzymes and aid in uptake of nutritents into bloodstream) caused by wheat gluten. However, there can be many other reasons that the villi are damaged too, and result in the inability to break down and absorb nutrients. And these don't have to include traditional IgE allergies either.

The original version of SCD is with dairy, see Intro Diet here:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ntro_diet2.htm

www.Pecanbread.com is geared more towards doing the SCD dairy free or goat yogurt for ASD kids. Because some kids with ASD (and I think other damaged gut kids) don't break down dairy proteins completely into amino acid and the peptides act like morphine in the body: producing hyperactivity and other such reactions.

Yogurt is the cornerstone of SCD to get the good probiotics. We make it homemade and culture for 24 hrs to remove all lactose. That's so great that he already likes it!

There is lots of info on the BTVC website, read the Beginners Section, Science Behind the Diet, the Legal/Illegal foods and Knowledge Base to start
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i.../beginners.htm

Read some back posts, we'll be here for you if you have ?s!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
Thanks JaneS for your response. I had a look at the enzyme site, and from what I can tell, what we are dealing with now is an allergy. The reaction is bright red cheeks and spots on his body. It is almost immediate, whereas the problem with dairy used to take several days to manifest itself as eczema. His poop is pretty normal. But come to think of it, his skin has been dry and itchy lately so that could indicate gut issues. Obviously there is a problem with his immune response, but I'm confused and not sure where to start. If we work on healing the gut, will that heal the allergic response? I'm going to read more on the enzyme site. Feeling really overwhelmed.









I know!!! It is difficult and overwhelming and frustrating.

And...you of all people already have like the best diet on the planet!

I think it will heal the allergic response, especially if this is something new you are noticing. There are many things that are interrelated too, such as fatty acids do keep the lining of the intestines intact.

And not to make you even more distressed ... but I wonder if kids like ours will always have to go the extra mile with respect to "gut healing" and massive amounts of probiotics and nutrients for the rest of their lives. (Not that that isn't good for everyone but, ykwim?)

Because their initial gut flora just wasn't up to par and their immune system is geared to being on alert or yeast/bacteria is always there waiting to grow again.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Time to post one of my favorite articles since several here mentioned they are TTC. And Firefaery is expecting









*"Just One Bottle Won't Hurt"-- or Will It?*
Marsha Walker, RN, IBCLC
http://www.massbfc.org/formula/bottle.html

Quote:

*major ecological disturbances are observed in newborn infants treated with antimicrobial agents* ...

when formula supplements are given to breastfed babies during the first seven days of life, the production of a strongly acidic environment is delayed and *its full potential may never be reached* ...

The neonatal GI tract undergoes rapid growth and maturational change following birth

Infants have a functionally immature and immunonaive gut at birth

Tight junctions of the GI mucosa take many weeks to mature and close the gut to whole proteins and pathogens

Intestinal permeability decreases faster in breastfed babies than in formula-fed infants (Catassi, et al, 1995)

Open junctions and immaturity play a role in the acquisition of NEC, diarrheal disease, and allergy

sIgA from colostrum and breast milk coats the gut, passively providing immunity during the time of reduced neonatal gut immune function ...

infant formula should not be given to a breastfed baby before gut closure occurs

once dietary supplementation begins, the bacterial profile of breastfed infants resembles that of formula-fed infants in which bifidobacteria are no longer dominant and the development of obligate anaerobic bacterial populations occurs (Mackie, Sghir, Gaskins, 1999)

relatively small amounts of formula supplementation of breastfed infants (one supplement per 24 hours) will result in shifts from a breastfed to a formula-fed gut flora pattern (Bullen, Tearle, Stewart, 1977) ...

*in susceptible families, breastfed babies can be sensitized to cow's milk protein by the giving of just one bottle,* (inadvertent supplementation, unnecessary supplementation, or planned supplements), in the newborn nursery during the first three days of life (Host, Husby, Osterballe, 1988; Host, 1991)
Forced supplementing of formula while in hospital (high hemotocrit level due to DS being 2 weeks late and 40 hr. labor).

Coupled with antibiotics given to me thru IV without my permission







because my OB had to clean out my uterus manually due to extensive bleeding and clotting (probably the damned pitocin).

Plus damaged gut mama.

Equals my DS's gut


----------



## PumpkinSeeds (Dec 19, 2001)

I need to go back and read this entire thread (and the previous ones too)

But, I have been giving my very dairy allergic son (4.5yo) rejuvelac for the last few days. He has been drinking about 3 x 8 oz of it and yesterday for the first time in a long while he had a normal poop.

He tends to get chronic sloppy stools. We are strict about him not eating anything he is allergic to and he does have some oral aversion/SID issues that make it particulary difficult to get him to eat.

I want to increase the amount of fat in his diet, and I need to go back and find that coconut milk yogurt recipe..


----------



## ShannonCC (Apr 11, 2002)

Hi! I'm mostly posting just to sub







This thread is very intimidating,









I see most of you are dealing with babies and my problem is mostly me, so I hope it's ok to post here. If it counts, my kids seem to have problems too, yay! All in the family









I have an allergy to dairy and an intolerance to soy and, apparently, garlic. Suddenly, in the past few months, all the issues have gotten much worse. It's now to the point that if I eat dairy, my hands are cracked and bleeding within hours. I had some chips that had whey flavoring (by mistake







: ) last Sunday and while my hands are largely better, there's still some red and a few scabs left. I had some chinese food last week and was in the most intense pain from the gas all night long (I couldn't even lay down without being in pain until 6:30 am - on the plus side, I was mostly ok as long as I stayed upright so I got to re-read a good book without interruptions,







and then dh took the day off work so I could sleep).

Anyway, I don't understand why everything has suddenly gotten worse. If it was just one of the food issues I'd say I had lost my tolerance to it or something, but it's all at once (had some garlic without thinking yesterday at lunch and was not a happy camper for the rest of the day).

I feel great as long as I avoid soy, dairy and garlic, so I'm making a HUGE effort right now (the Chinese incident scared me) but I wonder what else is going on underneath all this?

And why do things like this run in families? My dd also gets rashes from dairy and my cousin cleared up her really bad acne by cutting dairy out of her diet (her mother, who has excema like me, hasn't taken the plunge yet so I can't say anything about her). We've also got more than a few lactose intolerant people on that side of the family (including me). I'm pretty sure it's all related. Maybe we're just a family that shouldn't have dairy.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks Jane! Great read. Just another reason I have my babies at home. I had major supply issues, and thak god I had friends who helped me nurse dd so she never had formula. At least we avoided that! Unfortunately ds wasn't so lucky and had formula because again, the milk just didn't come in and I didn't have a support system at that point. Both kids were grown in a mama with a leaky gut though-so neither escaped. Sigh.

ShannonCC, glad you're posting. You'll find that alot of us here are healing ourselves. You are in good company.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Does anyone know why this multi has a "not to be used by pregnant or nursing women" warning at the bottom?
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/e...questid=367906

Oh, forget it. I just saw it has sucralose and that's illegal right?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Does anyone know why this multi has a "not to be used by pregnant or nursing women" warning at the bottom?
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/e...questid=367906

Oh, forget it. I just saw it has sucralose and that's illegal right?

Yes I think sucralose is Splenda?

Probably the warning b/c of the 10,000 IU vitamin A









It's likely chemical vitamin A anyways which is crap and can be toxic in high amounts in pg.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PumpkinSeeds*
I need to go back and read this entire thread (and the previous ones too)

But, I have been giving my very dairy allergic son (4.5yo) rejuvelac for the last few days. He has been drinking about 3 x 8 oz of it and yesterday for the first time in a long while he had a normal poop.

He tends to get chronic sloppy stools. We are strict about him not eating anything he is allergic to and he does have some oral aversion/SID issues that make it particulary difficult to get him to eat.

I want to increase the amount of fat in his diet, and I need to go back and find that coconut milk yogurt recipe..

Cool! did you make it yourself? It's supposed to have good sugar digesting bacteria in it.

I think www.Pecanbread.com has a non dairy yogurt recipe?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShannonCC*
Hi! I'm mostly posting just to sub







This thread is very intimidating,









I know, I know! What can we do, we are sooo popular.








I'm working on a cheat sheet for next month.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShannonCC*
I see most of you are dealing with babies and my problem is mostly me, so I hope it's ok to post here. If it counts, my kids seem to have problems too, yay! All in the family









Absolutely! If you notice it's rarely just the babe with issues, usually it's both of us.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShannonCC*
I have an allergy to dairy and an intolerance to soy and, apparently, garlic. Suddenly, in the past few months, all the issues have gotten much worse....

I feel great as long as I avoid soy, dairy and garlic, so I'm making a HUGE effort right now (the Chinese incident scared me) but I wonder what else is going on underneath all this?

And why do things like this run in families? My dd also gets rashes from dairy and my cousin cleared up her really bad acne by cutting dairy out of her diet (her mother, who has excema like me, hasn't taken the plunge yet so I can't say anything about her). We've also got more than a few lactose intolerant people on that side of the family (including me). I'm pretty sure it's all related. Maybe we're just a family that shouldn't have dairy.

It could just be time marching on or new intolerances you haven't figured out yet why things are getting worse. If it's intestinal flora related, and I believe all things like this are, it will likely only get worse the longer it goes on.

It could be your family history, but also all mama's pass on their intestinal flora to their babes, so if it's not up to par, their babes inhereit it.

RE: acne and dairy
There's so many hormones and antibiotics in regular dairy too... not to mention that pasteurized dairy is very hard to digest.

The fact that you are seeing these issues appear all over your family tree could not necessarily mean a genetic basis... personally I feel most everyone's digestion is horrible in this fast food nation, we just don't talk about it!! (How many ads do we see a day for GasX or Pepto Bismol or Mylanta. Poor digestion is a billion dollar market.)


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

oh man oh man oh man, *I* am so cool
















Tired of my coconut yogurt system in the yogurt maker where the top has to be balanced, precariously, on two wood toys (







) in order to keep the yogurt below 115 or so, I and the power drill took matters into my own hands.









I drilled a whole bunch of holes in the top of my plastic cover







And, now I can easily insert thermometer into any of the jars and see what is going on. The highest I have gotten has been 111 degrees









Oh coconut yogurt is so simple. Follow any other yogurt directions, only subbing coconut milk for the milk. I use progurt starter, which was incredibly expensive, but free of dairy & soy and other stuff. It also will last forever. That's it. No need to search


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:

"Just One Bottle Won't Hurt"-- or Will It?
I have read that before and it always makes me cry. I was forced to give dd bottles of formula untill my milk came in. (luckily on the morning of day 4). It is a long ugly story but my 9 1/2 lb baby wound up in the nicu for 4 days, apparently to spite me since I had her unmedicated and we think also because it appeared that I was a h/b transfer. (Somehow my ped knew we were a failed h/b and I never told him so I figure the hospital did even though we never told them either.) So she was in the nicu on iv abx and bottles of formula instead of in my arms getting colostrum to seal up her gut. I knew what harm it could be doing to her but I was threatened that they would keep her longer if I didn't give her formula and since I already knew they were lying about her health I just had to get her out of there and home (plus one sadistic n/p kept running test after test on her cause she wasn't peeing enough to please her







: )

Sigh

I think detox has hit dd. She has been a wreck all day. I also think that the suppliments my chiro gave me have helped a ton since I forgot to take them untill about noon and wasn't a very nice mommy this morning but once I took them I felt like a new person.

I think I just ordered some of that clay. I also am pretty sure I'm not pg this cycle. Probably a good thing but after 6 months of ttc I don't want to wait. plus now we are getting into the conundrum of do we ttc for a holiday season due date or not.


----------



## PumpkinSeeds (Dec 19, 2001)

Thanks! I'm going to the health food store to find coconut milk with no preservatives.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Oh coconut yogurt is so simple. Follow any other yogurt directions, only subbing coconut milk for the milk. I use progurt starter, which was incredibly expensive, but free of dairy & soy and other stuff. It also will last forever. That's it. No need to search


----------



## PumpkinSeeds (Dec 19, 2001)

Yes, I make it myself, and my son calls it his special juice. I am drinking beet kvass myself, but he smelled it and wasn't interested. I want to try the coconut yogurt. Fat and bacteria all in one go, sounds good to me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Cool! did you make it yourself? It's supposed to have good sugar digesting bacteria in it.

I think www.Pecanbread.com has a non dairy yogurt recipe?


----------



## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Time to post one of my favorite articles since several here mentioned they are TTC. And Firefaery is expecting









*"Just One Bottle Won't Hurt"-- or Will It?*
Marsha Walker, RN, IBCLC
http://www.massbfc.org/formula/bottle.html

Forced supplementing of formula while in hospital (high hemotocrit level due to DS being 2 weeks late and 40 hr. labor).

Coupled with antibiotics given to me thru IV without my permission







because my OB had to clean out my uterus manually due to extensive bleeding and clotting (probably the damned pitocin).

Plus damaged gut mama.

Equals my DS's gut









Sounds like dd, too. She was given a bottle of formula in the nicu without my permission after having been given glucose water in an effort to normalize her rapid breathing rate. If they thought eating would help, why didn't they let me try to breastfeed her? Then ped scares me into supplementing with formula at 4 days old cause she's lost too much weight. Fast forward, horrible eczema, cradle cap, etc. Fast forward, she's anaphylactic to milk, eggs, and peanuts along with "milder" allergies to other foods. Makes me mad!


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I have taken coloidal minerals in the past and they made me feel terrific. I am wondering if anyone here knows anything about this that would make it a bad idea to take or not scd legal.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Does anyone have any or know of any articles re: breastmilk *still* being best even for babies w/food intolerances?

My mother, MIL, AIL, are wondering why I'm still nursing while dd is so sensitive to what I am eating. Just want to have some research in my corner so to speak.


----------



## ShannonCC (Apr 11, 2002)

A cheat sheet would be wonderful









Is everyone here doing the SCD?

Does anyone just take probiotics? I have some coconut milk. How do you make yogurt? If it requires buying something expensive it's not going to happen


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Making yogurt requires and oven (electric) and a 60 watt bulb. Super Cheap! Even if you have a gas oven...there are ways...

Any good article on breastfeeding will tell you why it's essential that you continue. Maybe someone has links, if not I'll get them for you. The baby's gut is permeable (by design) until they are about two. BM contains many elements, lauric acid, probiotics, enzymes etc that work to increase immunity and heal the gut. Introducing pasteurized, dead, hydrogenated food (formula) will be devastating. You are better off breastfeeding with the allergenic foods in your diet (I'm not saying you should) than giving formula. PM me if you need me to call my LC (who is also one of my closest friends and we talk several times a day-it wouldn't be a problem)


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

RE: minerals. I don't know! I'm taking sea mineral with silver now and looking for a better product. Let's keep our eyes open.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Any good article on breastfeeding will tell you why it's essential that you continue. Maybe someone has links, if not I'll get them for you. The baby's gut is permeable (by design) until they are about two. BM contains many elements, lauric acid, probiotics, enzymes etc that work to increase immunity and heal the gut. Introducing pasteurized, dead, hydrogenated food (formula) will be devastating. *You are better off breastfeeding with the allergenic foods in your diet (I'm not saying you should) than giving formula.* PM me if you need me to call my LC (who is also one of my closest friends and we talk several times a day-it wouldn't be a problem)
Thanks! I'm really looking for a straightforward article written for people who know absolutely nothing about b'feeding OR food intolerances.

I'd like to find something that says this: You are better off breastfeeding with the allergenic foods in your diet (I'm not saying you should) than giving formula.[/B]

I guess I'm just being super sensitive about it all right now & while I can quote for them several reasons why b'milk is best (in general), I just feel like if they *read* something about why continuing to b'feed, despite dd's "troubles", they'd be more likely to believe it yk?

I'm just getting a lot of, "Try Pro-Sobe, try Pro-Sobe." And . . . "Well, when you quit nursing, things will be better."


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Tired of my coconut yogurt system in the yogurt maker where the top has to be balanced, precariously, on two wood toys (







) in order to keep the yogurt below 115 or so, I and the power drill took matters into my own hands.









I drilled a whole bunch of holes in the top of my plastic cover







And, now I can easily insert thermometer into any of the jars and see what is going on. The highest I have gotten has been 111 degrees









Oh coconut yogurt is so simple. Follow any other yogurt directions, only subbing coconut milk for the milk. I use progurt starter, which was incredibly expensive, but free of dairy & soy and other stuff. It also will last forever. That's it. No need to search



















This is the BEST yogurt making story I've ever read!!! Go mama!!!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I have read that before and it always makes me cry. I was forced to give dd bottles of formula untill my milk came in. (luckily on the morning of day 4). It is a long ugly story but my 9 1/2 lb baby wound up in the nicu for 4 days, apparently to spite me since I had her unmedicated and we think also because it appeared that I was a h/b transfer.

Yikes Patty























Hope your DD is doing better with die off today.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
Sounds like dd, too. She was given a bottle of formula in the nicu without my permission after having been given glucose water in an effort to normalize her rapid breathing rate. If they thought eating would help, why didn't they let me try to breastfeed her? Then ped scares me into supplementing with formula at 4 days old cause she's lost too much weight. Fast forward, horrible eczema, cradle cap, etc. Fast forward, she's anaphylactic to milk, eggs, and peanuts along with "milder" allergies to other foods. Makes me mad!









You just reminded me of the sugar they gave my DS during his blood draws too







.

Did you find out DD was ana thru testing or it just happened? Have you posted your story about this, I'd like to read if you link to it.









Why does the medical establishment know so little? It's pretty frightening that we are able to make these connections and they do not. I'll never ever trust anyone with a white coat ever again, on ANYTHING. It's not a good position to be in though. Incredible responsibility for us.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Some articles on bf'ing and allergies:

http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBJulAug98p100.html

The great general 'Outcomes of Breastfeeding' review of studies:
http://www.lalecheleague.org/cbi/biospec.htm

This article states:

Quote:

Prolonged breastfeeding can prevent or delay or the onset of food allergies. Possibly due to the immune factors in breastmilk...

Prolonged breastfeeding protects from developing allergies and asthma.
http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergyd...n/fa/wean.html
Also very interesting quote from that site:

Quote:

Studies have shown decreased bone mineral densities and nutrient deficiencies in mothers on inadequate "allergy prevention diets".


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Wish me luck. I've got yougart cooking in a cooler w/a heating pad (oven method just didn't come close to working plus I need to use it all the time so having it unavailable for 24 hours wouldn't work here.

Couple of questions. Mainly wanting opinions.

I had a source of organic raw milk but all his cows currently have mastitis so no milk for a while. I can get organic low temp pasturized not homogonized at whole foods (which is what I am currently doing) or get non organic raw from another local guy (but I hear it is a total pita to get it from him). Apparently this other guy has more cows so I wouldn't be so limited as I am now. Which one should I do? In your opinion, if you had to choose, is raw better or organic better?

Ok also on nuts. Following the nt protocol I soaked some almonds and then dried them out. I made them into nut butter following the directions in nt. They were way salty and I think my co was rancid or something. They have a funky taste (I didn't use nearly as much as it called for either).

I found a recipe for some cookies. AF is here and I'm feeling sorry for myself so I made them. They are just walnuts, honey, cinnamon and eggwhite. They tasted lousy and then sat in my stomach like a stone (once I made them I had to eat a bunch







)

I am wondering if the reason I reacted badly to the cookies is because of those nuts not being soaked. Or perhaps it was just too soon to try them. If I soak nuts do I need to add the salt? What about my experience w/ the nut butter, normal? When you make nut butter do you add oil? Do you add oil if your nuts are roasted?

Thoughts? Opinions??

Quote:

I'll never ever trust anyone with a white coat ever again, on ANYTHING.
This made me smile. No one at our Dr's office wears a white coat. In fact I was talking to a friend about her dd going to the ped and she talked about him wearing a coat and I thought "I didn't know Dr's still wore those". Probably my experience is outside of the norm but since I never see white coats any more it seems so passe.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Jane for those links! I also want to have this info for tomorrow when we go to the pediatric allergist/immunologist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I am wondering if the reason I reacted badly to the cookies is because of those nuts not being soaked. Or perhaps it was just too soon to try them
Yup, too soon. I did the same thing w/ toasted pecans & suffered because of it.
Good luck w/your yogurt! My raw milk yogurt is deeeelicious! Next, I'm going to try some coconut yogurt too.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*GLA - Gamma Linoleic Acid*

Evening primrose oil helped DS's eczema and my bladder issues.

I found the quote about ancestry and nutrition very interesting.

Quote:

The body needs an enzyme called delta-6 desaturase (D6D) to transform linoleic acid into GLA. Under normal conditions, most people make adequate amounts of D6D and hence the by-product GLA; however, a number of disease and deficiency conditions as well as components of the modern diet can interfere with the conversion of linoleic acid to GLA.

Diabetics, for example, do not normally make adequate amounts of D6D and hence of GLA, nor do people with poor pituitary or thyroid function. Both malnutrition and overeating can interfere with D6D and inhibit the production of GLA. *Trans fatty acids* definitely inhibit the production of GLA as does overconsumption of *sugar and alcohol. Deficiencies of protein, zinc, biotin and vitamins B6, B12 and E* can all inhibit D6D function and hence the production of GLA.

*In addition, some individuals are not genetically programed to produce D6D at all, mainly those whose ancestors had lots of preformed D6D metabolites from organ meats and fish in their diets. Researchers have called such individuals "obligate carnivores." They are especially prone to diseases like diabetes and alcoholism if they do not eat enough fish and organ meat.*

Some of the disease conditions that result from defective D6D function include premature aging, *irritable bowel syndrome*, cirrhosis of the liver, *skin conditions like eczema*, menstrual problem such as *PMS*, noncancerous breast disease, Sjogren's syndrome, alcoholism, diabetes and cancer. Thus, investigators have hypothesized that GLA can be an important component of treatment for these conditions.

... reduction in the size of plaque in vessel walls.

....shown to encourage weight loss

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyour...linolenic.html


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I had a source of organic raw milk but all his cows currently have mastitis so no milk for a while. I can get organic low temp pasturized not homogonized at whole foods (which is what I am currently doing) or get non organic raw from another local guy (but I hear it is a total pita to get it from him). Apparently this other guy has more cows so I wouldn't be so limited as I am now. Which one should I do? In your opinion, if you had to choose, is raw better or organic better?

Ok also on nuts. Following the nt protocol I soaked some almonds and then dried them out. I made them into nut butter following the directions in nt. They were way salty and I think my co was rancid or something. They have a funky taste (I didn't use nearly as much as it called for either).

I found a recipe for some cookies. AF is here and I'm feeling sorry for myself so I made them. They are just walnuts, honey, cinnamon and eggwhite. They tasted lousy and then sat in my stomach like a stone (once I made them I had to eat a bunch







)

I am wondering if the reason I reacted badly to the cookies is because of those nuts not being soaked. Or perhaps it was just too soon to try them. If I soak nuts do I need to add the salt? What about my experience w/ the nut butter, normal? When you make nut butter do you add oil? Do you add oil if your nuts are roasted?

This made me smile. No one at our Dr's office wears a white coat. In fact I was talking to a friend about her dd going to the ped and she talked about him wearing a coat and I thought "I didn't know Dr's still wore those". Probably my experience is outside of the norm but since I never see white coats any more it seems so passe.

If all his cows have mastitis, I'm not sure I'd EVER buy milk from him. He is probably feeding grains. Grass fed cows do not get sick like this. I don't think I'd even get raw milk from cows that were fed grains regularly even if they appeared to be healthy. It's not a proper diet. It effects the nutrients in the milk and the bacterial population of their guts (which also effects the bacterial count of their milk, not good for raw.)

Non-organic could be okay if you talk to this other farmer and find out what the feed is, whether he uses antibiotics etc. Basically if it's organic with being certified for it.

Organic low temp pasteurized non-homogenized milk is the next best thing. Ultra pasteurized is the bad stuff.

And just to reiterate, SCD does not at all require the use of raw milk (in fact the online groups discourage it) or anything organic.

*Re: nut butter*

I only add oil if the nuts need it towards the end of processing. Cashews sometimes do.

If nuts are old they can indeed go rancid. I usually rinse mine and dry with clean dishtowel after soaking to remove the excess salt. It's very important to use the salt while soaking, this makes a bacteriostatic solution, mold won't grow. It may be crucial for the phytate reduction as well.

*Re: reacting to non soaked nuts*

For me, I noticed a difference. Non soaked nuts do inhibit digestive enzymes, so the evidence is there. (Again, another point in which I disagree with SCD.)

And also, you might just not be ready for nuts. Also don't walnut have some kind of special acid? I forget. The easiest nuts to digest first are pecans and blanced almonds.

*Re: White coats*







I meant it figuratively... how 'bout if I say "so called experts in medicine with a bunch of letters after their names"


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Jane- Thanks for the thoughts. I know the nt protocols aren't part of scd which is why I asked here since I know some of you try to use both. What I thought was rancid was actually my coconut oil. I expect that the other raw milk guy is also feeding grain. Not sure if I could hope to find purely grass fed raw. I can get homogonized paturized grass fed organic milk at the grocery store. Not sure what the non-homogonized cows are eating but I expect at least some grain.

I think I have a working yougart contraption!!! The temp has gone a bit high but stayed under 120 so that is ok, right? My maker should be here tomorrow but we were nearly out of yougart now.

I can't beleive I have to wait another week for the book. UGH! Anyone have any good deserty ideas that don't use nuts? We all need a treat but I'm not having any luck finding recipes that look any good. The cheese cake wasn't good. And we are sick of applesauce but unsure what else we can move on to at this point. HELP!!!


----------



## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

I have a couple questions:
1. Has anyone tried using homeopathy along with their healing program? I have really been delving into it the last few days, and there are lots of examples where it has helped people with digestive issues/eczema/etc. I would be interested in hearing about it if anyone has gone this route.

2. In regards to enzymes, what brands are reputable, and if anyone on this thread is in Canada, I'm interested in knowing which reputable brands are specifically available here.

tia!


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Does anyone have any or know of any articles re: breastmilk *still* being best even for babies w/food intolerances?

My mother, MIL, AIL, are wondering why I'm still nursing while dd is so sensitive to what I am eating. Just want to have some research in my corner so to speak.

What is your child reacting to?

My older son was reacting to everything for some time, so I would tell someone to find me a "dairy-free, corn-free, coconut-free, soy-free" formula, and I would consider it. (which i wouldn't







). But the fact of the matter was that no ABM would meet his needs.

Off to search ingredients of this Pro-Sobe crap, I mean drink.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

We use homeopathy for EVERYTHING. It's great in a gut healing program. Homeopathy can create a real shift, plus it's based on the whole idea is that you shouldn't have any sensitivities to begin with. I really believe that you need a skilled homeopath at your disposal though. I've said it before...I've used it for years. I can help almost anyone with acute conditions, which gut damage is not. I know enough to defer to a doc for constitutional stuff. If you try to treat acutely you're just going to end up chasing symptoms and not truly treating homeopathically.


----------



## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

I'm just thinking outloud here, trying to put puzzle pieces together.









Okay, so how do I figure out what it is. I was leaning toward low stomach acid. I don't know a whole lot about the role of stomach acid though, I know it helps break down food and digestion, right? Then I was thinking the problem might be gallstones, or bile problem, cause we need good bile to help digest fats and all that. So I don't know for sure what my problem is, I don't go to doctors much.
I just want to figure out all the stuff I can do to help these things, though I'm not sure if my problem is both, or one or the other.
I wish I had a see through body to see all my organs.


----------



## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Does anyone have any or know of any articles re: breastmilk *still* being best even for babies w/food intolerances?

My mother, MIL, AIL, are wondering why I'm still nursing while dd is so sensitive to what I am eating. Just want to have some research in my corner so to speak.

Fwiw, dd's allergist wanted me to breastfeed as long as possible. Allergic reactions are typically very much milder through breastmilk. The allergist did want me avoiding any foods that caused a reaction in her, too.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

<<Studies have shown decreased bone mineral densities and nutrient deficiencies in mothers on inadequate "allergy prevention diets".>>

That's interesting, Jane. I did the elimination diet while nursing dd. Not the total elimination diet-just avoiding the top 8 allergens plus a few. I had my bone density tested just for fun after I'd been on the diet 1 ½ years. My midwife friend said that bone density scores are usually much lower while breastfeeding than they are after weaning the child. My bone density level was much higher than it had been before I got pregnant.

I don't really trust doctors anymore, either. Except for a few-one of which is dd's allergist.

Here's my story. Warning-It's very long.

I ate pretty healthy before pregnancy, but with the nausea and general feeling like crap, I reverted to junk food like I ate in high school-fish sticks, McDonald's, bagel bites, ice cream, etc. Then we moved when I was 4 months pregnant from Ohio to Washington, right after we went on a three week road trip South. Took two weeks to drive to WA so we could sightsee. Ate lots of fast food as I needed to eat every 3 hours. And from the poor diet and sitting in a car, my legs swelled from the knees down. We got to WA, bought a new house, had the downstairs finished, so I got major paint fumes, new carpet offgassing, etc. Diet got worse if possible cause I was stressed out about not knowing anyone, being so far away from family, etc. Took the glucose tolerance test and was diagnosed with gestational diabetes. Went to the gestational diabetes class offered by the hospitals-worthless information. Found the plus size pregnancy website and educated myself on dealing with gestational diabetes. For the rest of my pregnancy, I controlled my blood sugars by diet alone and started making connections between the amount of carbs I ate and how I felt. Because I had gd, the ob decided that I would need to be induced two weeks early just to make sure the baby didn't get too big. I switched to a midwife at 37 weeks, but still ended up getting induced 1 week overdue. I'm still not sure it was justified. Dd was born with a high respiratory rate, so she was rushed off to the nicu. Was given a bottle of glucose water and then a bottle of formula to try to lower her breathing rate. I didn't get to try to breastfeed until she was 5 hours old.

By 4 days of age, she had lost more than 10% of body weight and my milk had not come in. I was told I had to supplement with formula. When I rented a pump, the lc told me to stop nursing for 2 days and just pump and bottlefeed. After two days, I saw her again and she said to use a supplemental nursing system and supplement with formula. One of my friends told me to go to bed with the baby and just nurse nonstop, so I did that. My milk finally came in when she was one week old.

I had lots of breastfeeding problems and was finally told that I must just have sensitive nipples and that's why it hurt. One lc had suggested nystatin just to see if it would work, but I didn't try it. I now wish I had because I think it might have helped.

Dd had a rash on her face constantly but we were told it was normal baby rashes. Her cradle cap started at 7 weeks and just got worse and worse. Then the eczema slowly started and was pretty bad by three months of age. Her poops also abruptly changed to being very smelly around 3 months-the ped said it was normal. And as far as poop goes, she only had about one bm a week from the age of 1 week.

I started talking to different people and one of them suggested food allergies. So on my own, I read about allergies and elimination diets and pulled all dairy, wheat, soy, eggs, nuts, seafood, citrus, tomatoes, and berries from my diet. I consulted with a naturopath and tried following her program, but I saw no change. Dd was absolutely miserable. She would wake up every 15 to 30 at night to scratch and the only way I could get her back to sleep was nursing. She couldn't be left alone during the day because she would do nothing but scratch. Dh was out of town, so I was on my own. At five months, due mostly to lack of sleep, I let the ped talk me into giving dd a round of antibiotics and oral steroids along with using hydrocortisone cream on dd. In a sense, the drugs were a godsend. Her eczema cleared, the cradle cap disappeared and she started sleeping. Her eczema did come back in a few spots, but was nothing compared to what it was like before. The ped said that keeping her moisturized was the only thing to do. She definitely didn't believe it was an allergy issue.

At one point before the medication, I tried putting a probiotic paste on dd's eczema. She immediately broke out in hives, started screaming and scratching and started swelling. Turns out it was a diary form. I was finally able to convince the ped to do allergy testing and she tested allergic to wheat, dogs, and milk. Her milk score was in the anaphylactic range. The same week I found out, one of dd's playmates stopped breathing when he was given one bite of yogurt. So, I was convinced of the need to completely avoid her allergens. I continued avoiding the main allergens on the advice of her allergist. I have also found that she is extremely contact reactive to milk.

I didn't start her on solids til about 8 or 9 months and kept taking her off of them because she would get extremely constipated. And she reacted to sweet peas. Finally at 1 year, when she would cry and cry when she saw us eating, I gave in and started giving her table food. Turns out her constipation with baby food was a fiber thing. She actually started having daily poops with table food.

We have continued to avoid the main allergens with her. She was just tested a month ago and tested in the anaphylactic range to eggs and peanuts and also tested allergic to almonds and cats. And I really wanted to try the scd. The allergist wants us to avoid all nuts until at least 4, and even though that could be overly cautious, I think I will. Nuts are not necessary and I don't want to risk anything.

Oh, and dd is anemic. And she weaned herself in December. And she reacts with eczema to spinach, and she reacts with diaper rash/diarrhea with most legumes. And she can't wear anything other than 100% cotton and gets rashes from our carpet. Oh, and I had silver fillings replaced when she was six months old with her sitting on my lap the whole time. And I was still nursing her.

Dd has been on probiotics several times for a long time, but I never saw a change. I did probiotics and digestive enzymes for a while and didn't see a change, either.

I do believe that leaky gut in the mom makes a big difference in allergies, but that's just not something you hear about from doctors or even alternative sources dealing with allergies. There is currently a discussion of this theory on kidswithfoodallergies.com.

I believe in the value of elimination diets. I don't think they are necessarily bad. I don't believe in the total elimination diets although I do understand the appeal of them. You do see an improvement in your child much quicker, and sometimes that's more important at first. I know that I could not have survived much longer on the amount of sleep I was getting.

I do agree that finding the root of the problem and solving it is the answer. I think ideally the answer would be finding the triggers and avoiding them while changing the diet and taking supplements to heal the gut. It literally pains me to see kids suffering from foods that cause reactions, "but it's okay because they need the nutrients and it's too hard to find alternate foods." (I'm thinking specifically of a friend whose baby has obvious signs of milk allergy, including extreme constipation, gas pain, failure to thrive, eczema, etc. but is being reassured by the doctor that it's just colic. Colic still at 7 months old? And the symptoms completely disappeared in the week the baby was tried on Neocate. But of course that's too expensive to stay on, and it's just colic and he'll outgrow it.) I digress.

I am finding with myself that I do much better off sugars and grains, but I haven't made the commitment to fully changing my diet, yet. And I do want to change dd's diet, but I haven't made that commitment yet, either. Right now I'm seeing all the negatives about it-she can't have dairy, eggs or nuts. She won't drink anything other than water, is currently eating no veggies, will only eat a few fruits. Potatoes and rice flour waffles are such a staple right now. And the fact that we'll be moving in three months, and it would be very hard to do the scd while moving. I just need to sit down, start looking at the positives, and do some planning. Convenience is one of my weaknesses-having homemade frozen waffles I can just pop in the oven, getting French fries from the drive through when we're running our errands, etc.

Finding this thread has really been an eye opener for me in lots of ways. I have learned so much from you all.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

So, as a short answer to your question, Jane, I found out through blood testing about dd's allergies--the bad ones, anyway. I would much rather find out that way than in real life reactions. Now, there is a very, very, very slight chance that the test results are wrong, but I'd rather not find out right now.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AmyD*
My older son was reacting to everything for some time, so I would tell someone to find me a "dairy-free, corn-free, coconut-free, soy-free" formula, and I would consider it. (which i wouldn't ). But the fact of the matter was that no ABM would meet his needs.








Good one! I'm gonna remember it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I can get homogonized paturized grass fed organic milk at the grocery store. Not sure what the non-homogonized cows are eating but I expect at least some grain.

I think I have a working yougart contraption!!! The temp has gone a bit high but stayed under 120 so that is ok, right? My maker should be here tomorrow but we were nearly out of yougart now.

I can't beleive I have to wait another week for the book. UGH! Anyone have any good deserty ideas that don't use nuts? We all need a treat but I'm not having any luck finding recipes that look any good. The cheese cake wasn't good. And we are sick of applesauce but unsure what else we can move on to at this point. HELP!!!

Yikes, that's harder to choose - homogenized pastured milk vs. non homogenized grain fed milk?









I guess the grass fed is always preferable since the fats are of better quality, but homogenizing them does degrade them.

I've heard that a bit lower, like 117 is the magic number where probiotics start to die.. but also 120. As long as the final product is very very tart, it's probably okay. Can you crack the top a little or something?

The cheesecake is much better, more like the real stuff, made with dripped yogurt than DCCC, but it's takes a while. Isn't there an apple yogurt pie in BTVC? I've never tried it though. What about the pumpkin pie recipe? Use dripped yogurt in that so it's not so tart. Sauteed apples with butter and cinnamon/nutmeg is good.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
We use homeopathy for EVERYTHING. It's great in a gut healing program. Homeopathy can create a real shift, plus it's based on the whole idea is that you shouldn't have any sensitivities to begin with. I really believe that you need a skilled homeopath at your disposal though. I've said it before...I've used it for years. I can help almost anyone with acute conditions, which gut damage is not. I know enough to defer to a doc for constitutional stuff. If you try to treat acutely you're just going to end up chasing symptoms and not truly treating homeopathically.









this is such a coincidence b/c I started DS on coffea cruda for his sleep issues today!!! If I can just solve that one, everything else would be so much better.

DH is putting his foot down about seeing the way expensive Homeopath right now! ARGH


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tweetybirds2*
I'm just thinking outloud here, trying to put puzzle pieces together.









Okay, so how do I figure out what it is. I was leaning toward low stomach acid. I don't know a whole lot about the role of stomach acid though, I know it helps break down food and digestion, right? Then I was thinking the problem might be gallstones, or bile problem, cause we need good bile to help digest fats and all that. So I don't know for sure what my problem is, I don't go to doctors much.
I just want to figure out all the stuff I can do to help these things, though I'm not sure if my problem is both, or one or the other.
I wish I had a see through body to see all my organs.









Yeah, tell me about it!

The test for low stomach acid is to take several betaine HCI pills with a regular meal. If you don't get reflux/heartburn, you might really need the extra acid.

But I don't know why people have low stomach acid naturally, I mean beyond medications and such.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







this is such a coincidence b/c I started DS on coffea cruda for his sleep issues today!!! If I can just solve that one, everything else would be so much better.

DH is putting his foot down about seeing the way expensive Homeopath right now! ARGH

How close are you to Brattleboro, VT? My homeopath is there and he takes insurance as well, b/c he was smart and became a NP too


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

WOW Deborah, thanks for your story









(maybe the bone thing is because you ate healthier than before? I know my diet got WAY better in some ways on an Elim. Diet. Like Tweetybirds said, this is all so intricate sometimes we don't know the cause.)

I'm glad you posted though because yes, Elim. Diet can be helpful, it's just that there is something missing from them ... the healing part.

I think enzymes would be very worth a second try in your cases... which ones did you try and for how long? It takes a while to heal a gut with them. Ditto probiotics.

And it really makes me sad that we have such similar stories re: not being in control of our births and our babies. I have a lot of anxiety about other issues with respect to DS's birth too.

I *cannot* believe a dentist allowed your 6 mo old to sit on your lap while drilling out mercury fillings







Have you considered getting her hair tested? She has a lot of allergies for sure, that must be so hard.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

tweetybirds2, it's common to have low stomach acid if you are aging, in my case, I definitely have it (did the HCL challenge with pills, got up to 7 pills before I felt heartburn!). I don't know why. I think it might be from long-term use of Tums, and also I was on Zantac during my pg for reflux (which was diagnosed based solely on my having morning sickness well into my second trimester), and was on it before for what I was told was reflux based on my troubles with swallowing (which could have just been food intolerance). So it does happen!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
How close are you to Brattleboro, VT? My homeopath is there and he takes insurance as well, b/c he was smart and became a NP too









Wow, yes Brattleboro is just over the border but we are 108 miles away.

Verrrry interesting. That was very smart. That gives me an idea... I have another referral that is an M.D. here in MA going to check up on him.

You are still trying to kidnap me huh?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
So, as a short answer to your question, Jane, I found out through blood testing about dd's allergies--the bad ones, anyway. I would much rather find out that way than in real life reactions. Now, there is a very, very, very slight chance that the test results are wrong, but I'd rather not find out right now.









Yeah I don't blame you one single bit!!!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

:


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

So, Jane are you saying that you shouldn't use raw milk if it's not grass fed? Because in this area, it's too cold for the cows to be pastured in the winter. See: http://www.graceharborfarms.com/raw_milk.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
2. In regards to enzymes, what brands are reputable, and if anyone on this thread is in Canada, I'm interested in knowing which reputable brands are specifically available here.

Is Enzymedica at hfs in Canada? Here is listing from Karen's site:

http://www.enzymestuff.com/supplement.htm


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

You have me beat. We are over 70 miles away, but 2 hrs due to the back roads.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
So, Jane are you saying that you shouldn't use raw milk if it's not grass fed? Because in this area, it's too cold for the cows to be pastured in the winter. See: http://www.graceharborfarms.com/raw_milk.htm

Not necessarily... I do see from your link that they also feed alfalfa and grass during winter too. I don't know the extent or percentage of their diet to which grains starts to effect them but that site seems like their cows are very healthy. And they do pasture the other 3 seasons?

I really said that with respect to the mastitis issue which is extremely serious and sign of a big problem. Year round grain feeding can cause this, not so sure about seasonal issues. It's really the health of the cow, and... get this... their intestinal flora!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
You have me beat. We are over 70 miles away, but 2 hrs due to the back roads.

And what pretty back roads they are! One of the first times I drove on major roads was from vacation house in Quechee to Killington. Sigh.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok I still don't have the book so telling me to make something out of it won't help.

I made a coconut custard thing tonight. It was yummy!

DD was nuts at bedtime though. Could have been the coconut, the nuts from yesterday that I ate way too many of, the tiny bit of guten I got w/comunion that made me feel sick immediately (not sure how I'm going to deal with that one) or the small chance that she was given something in the church nursery but I doubt that, or just the fact that she is teething something terrible (poor thing why won't these break through!)

So can I replace dccc w/dripped yougart in all recipes? That would rock! Oh I've gotta go turn off my yougart maker now. I'm not thrilled about it taking 3 days from when I start making it untill I have it and if one more person gives me advice on how they make regular yougart I'm gonna scream! (just put it in a sleeping bag. Just put it in a warm oven for a couple of hours, etc.)

One more week and my book will be here and I won't feel quite so much like I am groping arround in the dark trying to figure this thing out.

Patty


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

About my raw milk guy. He has apparently been doing this for a while and is just baffled by the mastitis that won't go away. He says he hasn't ever seen anything like this before. He seems pretty smart (first generation farmer doing it cause he likes it) so I'm not going to write him off just yet. I do know that two of the cow he has were recent aquisitions so perhaps that is the problem, what they were getting before he got them.

I don't know if the low temp non **** milk is grass or grain fed but I assume that since it doesn't say it is grain fed. I have been using the yougart from the grass fed company to start my 24 hour yougart. (it comes in bottles no thickeners or anything but the milk and probiotics).

Man I wish I could convince my fil to start grass feeding his cows. He just bought a bull that was all grass fed and he was very impressed with it's condition. Perhaps that will start to sway him in that direction...

The local farm where I get my eggs and chickens just started doing some grass fed beef. I got some for dh and dd (I can't digest beef plus it smells terrible to me).

Oh and I got some enzymes that are supposed to be for candidia. How much help will the really give me? Should I be attempting to get some into dd as well? Will she get any from bfing? How important is the seperation from meals? Why do they say to eat it closer to a meall when your case is more acute?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Jane-that's ds's constitutional! He takes it at 10M though...but it's a perfect fit. Let me know how it goes!

Also I had to post this. Some of you may think I'm nutty, but here goes. For my birthday this past June my dear friends gave me a reading with an intuitive. I did it over the phone (she's in CA, I'm in CT) and it was really cool. Pretty cheap, too. She sends you a tape of the reading (for $5) so you can listen to it later. I remember the reading being very good, but that was the end of it. Until I pulled out the tape two days ago.
She NAILED just about every one of the kids allergies before I ever got the blood test. Even down to the degree of severity( she uses a 1-10 scale for all foods. 10 is nourishing, 1 is harmful and you shouldn't eat anything below a five. She named the foods that the kiddos were allergic to all below a five and some at a zero.) She talked about my liver being very damaged, and I just had testing about two months ago that revealed significant liver damage. She told me what minerals dd and I were deficient in. She also recommends supplements based on her numbers system for your body. For instance, Primal Defense came up great for me (9), but the GOL enzymes did not (2). She recommended the WOB enzyme for me.

Anyway, I'm talking to her again tomorrow to ask more specific questions. Last time she just sort of talked, and since I was thinking it was just for fun I listened. Now I have questions about particular foods, and supplements I want to try. I'll let you know (if you're interested) how it goes.
I normally wouldn't post this here, but I just discovered in listening to the tape that there were complete parallels between her reading and the allergy testing. You also get alot more (recommendations, deficiency reading and the best ways for YOU to deal with it) for alot less money.
Sorry if this was weird, but if it can help another mama...I guess it's just another form of testing?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

OT- To firefaery- I'm from CT origionally but not any more. I tried to pm you but you are full.







I'm from Tolland. Where are you located?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

My uncle's in Tolland! I'm in Pleasant Valley. My homeopath is in Woodstock, though-not too far from your old digs!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I just read on a raw milk site that to pasturize their milk heat it to 161 and cool it quickly. I am wondering if I'm killing off any good remaining enzymes on my low temp pasturized milk by heating it to 190 before cooling it for the yougart.

Can anyone explain to my why I have to heat it? I'm confused on that point.


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## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yeah, tell me about it!

The test for low stomach acid is to take several betaine HCI pills with a regular meal. If you don't get reflux/heartburn, you might really need the extra acid.
.

ooh I didn't know there was a test for it! I'll go try it out tomorrow, Thanks!


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I just read on a raw milk site that to pasturize their milk heat it to 161 and cool it quickly. I am wondering if I'm killing off any good remaining enzymes on my low temp pasturized milk by heating it to 190 before cooling it for the yougart.

Can anyone explain to my why I have to heat it? I'm confused on that point.

I don't know if this is why others do it, but I actually heat our pasteurized milk to boiling before cooling it down for yogurt. I do this because pasteurization apparently twists the milk proteins and makes them very indigestible, but if they are boiled then they break apart and become easily digested. I read about it in the Garden of Eating book.

If I had raw milk, then I would not heat it up before making the yogurt.


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## ShannonCC (Apr 11, 2002)

So here's a question







I'm about ready to try some goat milk/yogurt to see if it gives me excema like cow milk does. I googled and raw milk is illegal in NJ, so basically I'll be getting store bought goat milk, yogurt or cheese. Which would be the best to try? I know SCD says to make your own, but I want to see if I can even tolerate goat milk before I go to that effort.

Also, does goat milk have lactose in it? Because I'm also lactose intolerant so . . . . . . So many things to think of


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

All animal milk has lactose in it. The benefit to raw is that the enzyme needed for breaking down lactose (lactase) is intact. Wild Oats in CT carries a raw goats milk cheddar that is SCD legal. I think the brand is Alta Dena. Maybe you could see if they will ship?

Oh, and Jane, I found an online source for raw pastured butter that will ship! I'm so excited. They also do meat and fish (pastured and wild) I like the site alot. It's www.slankersgrassfedmeats.com Thanks anyway for your link.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Wow do I have a lot to post today!

First, dd slept 4 and 1/2 hours last night! (Almost a record!) Her cradle cap is almost completely gone (never did go away since birth). She's left with only a very dry looking scalp. I know this diet is working.

We had an appt. with a very mainstream allergist/immunologist this morning. We are going to have her blood drawn and test that way. He said the *prick* test was more accurate, but I don't want her going through that right now.

Now some news I know you'll be interested in Jane: The lady who runs our organic co-op (and the one whose sister works for Dr. Sears) told me today that Sears recommends AGAINST vaxing (apparently he can in the State of California.) (?)

Well, she and her husband are looking into starting a Weston-Price Foundation something or another here. (I don't know much about it but I know you do Jane. ) She also is trying to get the author of Nourishing Traditions (is it Fallon?) herre to speak.

We had a quick conversation about this while she was on her cell phone so I don't know many details but immediately thought of you Jane.

BTW, all you northerners: I used to live in Albany, NY and am now in sunny and rural FL. (Maybe you could all take a vacation here to listen to this author speak!)









Oh, one more thing for firefaery: I would be interested in hearing what that intuitive of yours has to say. Why not?


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Well I've spent the last couple of days researching possible homeopathic remedies for ds and narrowed it down to one. I gave it to him just a little earlier, so now we will play the waiting game and hope for the best. I am really hoping that this will help and we won't have to go the route of elim. diet/SCD. Trying to avoid his trigger foods too, but at this point I don't even know forsure what they all are. I have read many case studies of homeopathy helping with allergies, so here's to hoping. Yes, I know I should see a professional homeopath, but there is no one in our surrounding area, and the last professional diagnosis we got was wrong. So, in the meantime, it can't hurt to try, right?

On a positive note, I took some sepia for my *mother-stress* about a week ago, and it not only seems to have lifted my mood, it also appears to be helping my skin. I've had awful cracked, dry, bleeding hands (especially my right hand) all winter just from constant contact with soap and water, and the very dry air here. I can't believe how much better my hands look, just over the last couple days. I wish I had a before and after pic!









ShannonCC

Quote:

So here's a question I'm about ready to try some goat milk/yogurt to see if it gives me excema like cow milk does. I googled and raw milk is illegal in NJ, so basically I'll be getting store bought goat milk, yogurt or cheese. Which would be the best to try? I know SCD says to make your own, but I want to see if I can even tolerate goat milk before I go to that effort.
Also, does goat milk have lactose in it? Because I'm also lactose intolerant so . . . . . . So many things to think of
You might want to try yogurt or cheese first. Because it is cultured (sort of pre-digested) your body may tolerate it better. If you can't find raw milk yogurt, raw milk cheese may be easier to find. Also, some lactose intolerant people tolerate goat's milk better than cow's milk. Not sure exactly why. I used to have a low lactose tolerance but I was able to digest goat's milk w/o a problem.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Wow, spam post! Anyway, Jane, could you re-post your cashew butter bread recipe over in meal planning? I didn't print it when you posted it and now I can't find it.







Thanks!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

My book arrived!!! And I read it today. I'm not much clearer than I was before. I'm esp confused about introducing foods etc. She keeps refering to when diahrea stops as an indicator of things. No D. here. Mostly constipation if anything (and that just since starting this darn diet). So should I be waiting for that to clear up to introduce more foods?

Also why is nut milk introduced later than nuts? That seems counter intuitive to me.

We had a yummy supper tonight. I love winter squash and I am esp loving getting to eat it regularly. I modified a baked chicken recipe that has a parmasean cheese coating and replaced the bread crumbs with ground up almonds. Worked great and tasted great too. I'll post it if anyone is interested. It was MIL's recipe and one of dh's favorites from growing up. I like it too.

Am I totally messing myself up by eating fruit all the time and using some honey? I can't eat the yougart plain, just too tart. I want to wipe this stuff out asap but I need to survive the process as well. I'm just confused...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
We had a yummy supper tonight. I love winter squash and I am esp loving getting to eat it regularly. I modified a baked chicken recipe that has a parmasean cheese coating and replaced the bread crumbs with ground up almonds. Worked great and tasted great too. I'll post it if anyone is interested. It was MIL's recipe and one of dh's favorites from growing up. I like it too.

Am I totally messing myself up by eating fruit all the time and using some honey? I can't eat the yougart plain, just too tart. I want to wipe this stuff out asap but I need to survive the process as well. I'm just confused...
Post your recipe under meal planning - the title is something about SCD chefs.

I'm pretty sure you can eat all the fruit you want. Just make sure it's peeled, de-seeded and cooked. I like my yogurt like that too! It tastes like ice cream to me w/fruit and honey.









Oh, and no D here either. I think that constipation can be common when starting. It happened to me and to dd but didn't last long. Are you drinking A LOT of water?


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## Hibou (Apr 7, 2003)

Okay so I posted yesterday about taking sepia and how it was helping my skin.

I woke up this morning to discover small, dry eczema-like patches on the insides of my elbows. I haven't had this since I was maybe 12.

I joined this thread talking about ds's allergies, but I guess I'm on the path with him now. I hope I start seeing results for him too.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Patty, in an earlier incarnation of this thread, someone (Jane?) said you can go ahead and introduce things like beans earlier if there was never any diarrhea. You could try and then see what happened, or wait a bit. Did you already have die-off, I can't remember? I still have yeasties myself, and am thinking I introduced stuff a bit too early and maybe am being a bit too heavy on the honey. Do what you feel is right for your body. We're all so different!

Just wanted to add for those who think they have celiac, that there is a non-invasive test for it, that uses stool samples, that is supposedly very accurate. You don't have to reintroduce gluten into the diet with this test, which is a major plus for many. I haven't done it myself yet, but heard about it from another mama on another board who has celiac. It's: http://www.enterolab.com/


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Darn server issues... lost my previous post.

Beans are not for early stages of diet. Personally I would wait to see if you can do well on raw fruit before introducing such advanced things like beans, lentils, dried fruits and whole nuts.

I'm confused about the nut milk/butter thing. Pecanbread lists them as the same in Stage 2. I don't remember the book saying anything about it.

Diarrhea or Constip. can be signs of die off, it's all individual depending on what particular microbes you are fighting. BTVC website has in Knowledge Base several Constip. links.

BTVC says if yeast is an issue to limit the honey at first to 25% of recipe.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hibou*
Okay so I posted yesterday about taking sepia and how it was helping my skin.

I woke up this morning to discover small, dry eczema-like patches on the insides of my elbows. I haven't had this since I was maybe 12.

I joined this thread talking about ds's allergies, but I guess I'm on the path with him now. I hope I start seeing results for him too.

Maybe but I've also heard this is a sign of viral die off too. You might want to increase your vitamin A.


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## ShannonCC (Apr 11, 2002)

I tried goat milk yogurt last night. No reactions whatsoever














:









I'm still waiting on the book I ordered. I hope this works. Right now I'm just not eating any of my known triggers but now that I've cut them out I've started noticing that I have stomach aches with things that aren't on my list. The stomach aches are mild, nothing like with soy, dairy, etc, so it's hard to pin point what is causing it. Anyway, I hope this works for me. It would be nice to have a day without digestive problems yk?


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## aileen (Jan 23, 2006)

or at least the past three years?
my dd has suffered from ezcema, i think, because of a mama's leaky gut and a bad reaction to a DTaP shot (live and learn). it has been bearable most times and terrible, terrible, terrible others ("what's WRONG with your baby!?" style, heard on the bus, several times - we couldn't drive or she would scratch her sweet cheeks bloody.) we're _better_ now, a trip to a famous chinese herbalist worked wonders, but we're slipping down some kind of yeast ridden road again, me thinks.
anyway, i lost a pregnancy recently, and have to wonder....
i'd like to start ttc but i need help getting my intestinal ducks in a row.
any book suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
also, what's SCD?
we avoid eggs, cow dairy, refined sugars. and all processed foods.
she takes probiotics and fish oil.
i take probiotics and just started trying grapefruit seed extract a few weeks ago, and am possibly seeing a die off of sorts?
anyway, i just wanted to thank you; you are all so knowledgable. and introduce myself, as i'll be hanging around gleaning all i can from you mamas


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
WOW Deborah, thanks for your story









(maybe the bone thing is because you ate healthier than before? I know my diet got WAY better in some ways on an Elim. Diet. Like Tweetybirds said, this is all so intricate sometimes we don't know the cause.)

I think enzymes would be very worth a second try in your cases... which ones did you try and for how long? It takes a while to heal a gut with them. Ditto probiotics.

I *cannot* believe a dentist allowed your 6 mo old to sit on your lap while drilling out mercury fillings







Have you considered getting her hair tested? She has a lot of allergies for sure, that must be so hard.

Jane, I was thinking again about the dental thing and realized that dd was not with me when I had the fillings replaced. I've been back to the dentist with dd so many times since with problems with those same teeth that I forgot dd wasn't with me that once.







Sometimes I think my memory just goes on vacation or something. I have spent so much money on seeking alternative care and products for dd that I don't think I can do the hair testing right now.

The digestive enzymes I tried were a prescription from a naturopath. I think they were Thorne Di-Pan. I have been thinking about doing enzymes again. It just bothers me that the enzymes recommended on the enzymestuff website are fungally derived. Still thinking about it.

And about the diet. I was definitely eating much healthier on an elimination diet. Throwing out the top allergens really limits the amount of packaged food you can find.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

I'd like to get my intestinal ducks in a row, too. We are going to try to get pregnant after we move this summer.

So, I'm really thinking about the scd diet. Can't do the dairy, eggs or nuts, though. And I'm thinking we'd probably have to go off of it when we move until we get settled in.

So, a few questions.

Do you think the diet has to be followed exactly in the different stages to work, or could I just switch what we eat to scd legal foods? (I've gotten the book twice through interlibrary loan, and I really don't want to do it again. I guess I should just break down and buy it.)

Do I absolutely have to give up my convenience foods? Right now they are just canned tomato sauce, canned tomatoes, gerber diced baby food fruit, and the Applegate farms lunchmeat and hotdogs? I am guessing the answer is yes, but I really don't want to give them up right now.









Can you still see results with some foods and/or supplements that are illegal?

And how long would it take before you think a child would start eating the foods served to them. Right now, dd will eat meats with no problems, but will not eat any veggies at all and only sometimes eats apples, pears and peaches.

And how would I get the cod liver oil in her? Right now she only does it in oatmeal. (She doesn't drink anything but water.)

And would it be constipating for how long? I've noticed recently that dd tends to get constipated unless she has oatmeal or brown rice regularly.

I am slowly moving towards doing this. It just takes me a while to gather information and commit.









Thanks in advance for the help.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
And how long would it take before you think a child would start eating the foods served to them. Right now, dd will eat meats with no problems, but will not eat any veggies at all and only sometimes eats apples, pears and peaches.
I can't answer your other questions for certain but I can say that my dd1 is the same age as your dd (born 10/29/03) and she loves the things I make on this diet. (She is not exclusively eating SCD, but almost.) My dd loves fruits and veggies so I don't have to do it, but there are ways you can hide veggies in things like pancakes and hide fruits in smoothies etc...
These ladies have all kinds of ideas, plus there are other good support systems you can find online w/all kinds of ideas for kids. It won't be as hard as it seems right now, I promise.







Maybe you can start phasing out the junky stuff with your dd right now little by little while you're getting ready to commit? Oh, and about the constipation: From what I understand, that does not happen to everyone. My dd was constipated for a few days and now everything's fine.









A little OT, but it may give you inspiration: *I* am feeling great on this diet and it is helping my dd2 without a shadow of a doubt. I will share all the positive things about it in another post or maybe a new thread. I'd like to read about others' success stories as well.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

mlleoiseau- other than getting yourself used to the different things you will need to do to maintain this diet I think that the benefit you will see from doing it part way will be minimal if that and you may put out a bunch of effort and become discouraged and convinced that the diet itself won't work because doing it mostly didn't seem to make a difference. I spent months cutting back on my gluten intake. It did make it easier when I finally quit gluten because I already was less dependant on it and had some alternatives I was comfortable, but I had also mostly convinced myself that I wasn't gluten intolerant because cutting back seemed to make no difference in how I felt. Well one week after I cut it out completely I had a bad reaction to a trace ammount of gluten that was hidden in something I ate at a resturant. Clearly I had/have a gluten intolerance but nothing short of complete elimination could show that. If what she says in the book is true, you won't regret doing this diet. It isn't a life time comittment but it is a long time comittment. It is helping me be more vigelant knowing that the more careful I am now the sooner I get done (at least that is what I am telling myself). I have also promised myself a donut from the 100 year old donut shop near our house once I fully graduate from this diet. If I don't do the diet I'll never get that donut since the gluten sensitivity would be too painful to even consider it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aileen*
or at least the past three years?
my dd has suffered from ezcema, i think, because of a mama's leaky gut and a bad reaction to a DTaP shot (live and learn). it has been bearable most times and terrible, terrible, terrible others ("what's WRONG with your baby!?" style, heard on the bus, several times - we couldn't drive or she would scratch her sweet cheeks bloody.) we're _better_ now, a trip to a famous chinese herbalist worked wonders, but we're slipping down some kind of yeast ridden road again, me thinks.
anyway, i lost a pregnancy recently, and have to wonder....
i'd like to start ttc but i need help getting my intestinal ducks in a row.
any book suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
also, what's SCD?
we avoid eggs, cow dairy, refined sugars. and all processed foods.
she takes probiotics and fish oil.
i take probiotics and just started trying grapefruit seed extract a few weeks ago, and am possibly seeing a die off of sorts?
anyway, i just wanted to thank you; you are all so knowledgable. and introduce myself, as i'll be hanging around gleaning all i can from you mamas









Welcome Aileen!









I lost my first pregnancy too








It's really hard to know what would have been or why.

SCD is the Specific Carbohydrate Diet based on the book written by Elaine Gottschall after she healed her daughter from seizures and Crohn's disease:

See www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info the Beginner's section and Science Behind the Diet link there.

Also www.pecanbread.com is the SCD geared towards kids and ASD kids in particular.

I had yeast issues and this diet showed immediate results, the gas and bloating was gone very quickly. Our story is here: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=260393

For us the eczema responded to initial diet changes and essential fatty acid supplements. Try adding some evening primrose oil too.

Stick around, hang out, read some back threads.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
Jane, I was thinking again about the dental thing and realized that dd was not with me when I had the fillings replaced. I've been back to the dentist with dd so many times since with problems with those same teeth that I forgot dd wasn't with me that once.







Sometimes I think my memory just goes on vacation or something. I have spent so much money on seeking alternative care and products for dd that I don't think I can do the hair testing right now.

The digestive enzymes I tried were a prescription from a naturopath. I think they were Thorne Di-Pan. I have been thinking about doing enzymes again. It just bothers me that the enzymes recommended on the enzymestuff website are fungally derived. Still thinking about it.

Whew! Thank goodness! Yes, you can definately concentrate on other things besides the hair test, like excellent nutrition to support the immune system. I hear you, I've spent a mint on stuff in the past 2 years!

What bothers you about fungal enzymes? Karen makes a strong case for them in that they work in both upper and lower stomach as well as intestines too. Not so with animal derived enzymes.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
Do you think the diet has to be followed exactly in the different stages to work, or could I just switch what we eat to scd legal foods? (I've gotten the book twice through interlibrary loan, and I really don't want to do it again. I guess I should just break down and buy it.)

Do I absolutely have to give up my convenience foods? Right now they are just canned tomato sauce, canned tomatoes, gerber diced baby food fruit, and the Applegate farms lunchmeat and hotdogs? I am guessing the answer is yes, but I really don't want to give them up right now.









Can you still see results with some foods and/or supplements that are illegal?

And how long would it take before you think a child would start eating the foods served to them. Right now, dd will eat meats with no problems, but will not eat any veggies at all and only sometimes eats apples, pears and peaches.

And how would I get the cod liver oil in her? Right now she only does it in oatmeal. (She doesn't drink anything but water.)

The "official" stages only apply to certain items: beans, lentils, coconut, whole nuts, dried fruit for ex. Pecanbread stages are just suggestions based on parent input as what their kids tolerated during early parts of diet.

Yeah, you gotta give up convenience foods! I was just reading on the Yahoo group that it's a common practice to add sugar to tomatoes b/c the acid levels have to be stable to can. It's just not worth the trouble to grind nuts, make your own bread, etc. etc. etc. and waste your time on hidden sugar that will keep you from healing. Reactions do occur from tiny amounts of things, I've seen it, and so have others. And having a reaction means one step back in your healing.

There are hot dogs coming that will be legal, I forget the brand.

What about trying cod liver oil in a syringe? If you shoot it to the side of the cheek towards back of mouth you can bypass the tongue.

I can't speak to kids that are picky eaters, my DS eats pretty much anything.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
A little OT, but it may give you inspiration: *I* am feeling great on this diet and it is helping my dd2 without a shadow of a doubt. I will share all the positive things about it in another post or maybe a new thread. I'd like to read about others' success stories as well.









wheee! this is awesome!


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## Cmadb12 (Dec 20, 2004)

If this sounds familiar to anyone, I would greatly appreciate ANY information you may have!!! My 4 year old son has been suffering from what two different drs. have only generally described as "constipation" and a "behaviorial" issue related to his constipation. He has been seen by his own ped. and his new allergist - so far. Neither of which I am happy with b/c I feel dismissed every time we have to discuss this recurring problem.

My son has been crossing his legs when he feels the urge to poop for over 2 years (pardon the medical terms - we're all moms here, right?) and holds in - or tries to at least- his poop. He cries, sometimes screams, when he does this. My husband and I have referred to it as the "poopie dance", until something just didn't feel right, after many months have passed. He has been constipated before, of course, as I'm sure many kids have, and he did once tear his rectum and get a strep infection after. this was when he was 18 months+ - a long time ago.

My son has a major peanut allergy along with many severe enviro. allergies, but according to his new allergist, not significant other food allergies. He was tested recently for milk and soy to which he reacted, but not severely according to his dr. He has eczema that come and go and has always battled it, even as an infant. His dr. says that he cannot def. say that he is "allergic" to milk b/c his skin reacts to even the control (water) slightly. But his arms just light up when they test him for everything, pretty much.

Most recently he's been on Florstor Kids (SOOO expensive!), Benefiber powder and his allergist just told me to put him on Lactulose liquid (sp?), even AFTER I told him that my son already has major stomach pain, gas and cramps (all side effects of Lactulose) and after we discussed his possible allergy or sensitivity to milk?!? My son rarely eats a "real" meal, if at all, cries at the table over his food after he tells me he's very hungry, but just can't eat it b/c his belly hurts. My son is thin and underwight, he east NOTHING. I've stopped letting him drink cow's milk (or soy for that matter) myself, but don't know whether to cut out ALL dairy, yogurt...the allergist says we'll discuss it at his next appt....right. Can't wait.

Also I guess something imp. to note - he ALWAYS has some form of poop in his diaper. Yes, I said diaper b/c he CAN go pee on the potty and wants to use the potty, but cannot be w/o a diaper at anytime b/c there is always poop literally hanging out of his bum. There is always poop, whether it's formed, which is the case most of the time, or a loose kind of liquid in his diaper. He runs into another room to cross his legs ALL day, even in public and shouts and cries if you even look at him. He strains so hard.

I cannot tell you how frustrated we are for him. We are afraid that he will still be in a diaper when he enters school and will be picked on-or worse. As I mentioned before, I am only being dismissed by the drs. and I can only look to you all for some informed advice.

By the way, we did try craniosacral therapy once, can't really comment on what that did or didn't do, but that was a while ago. Should I try acupuncture? Diet changes? Doctor changes?







Does this sound at all like it's merely behavioral on his part? If you can, please help - I am at my wit's end and sad everyday for him.

Many thanks to you all for your precious time reading this message!!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Please move over to March thread...

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=417310


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Just wanted to reply quickly and then I'll move to March...cmadb12, it doesn't sound behavioral AT ALL to me. I mean, WTH? He's not acting out to get attention, he's physically uncomfortable. A diet change may help, but he needs some healing. Craniosacral therapy would be great, but you really need to stick to it. I'm so sorry you are going through this. It's really heartbreaking. Please join us in the March thread. The ladies here will have a lot to offer you.


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