# Protecting the Gift



## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Ch 1 & 2 thread http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1020434

Chapter 3 discussion thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1024016

Ch. 5 thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1031806
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Does anyone want to have a thread discussing Protecting the Gift by Gavin DeBecker? I thought maybe we could start in January and go through it chapter by chapter if there's enough interest.


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## amj'smommy (Feb 24, 2005)

Oh I'ld love to be involved!! I need to get the book first though







It's been on my mind alot lately with dd and ds#1 getting older.


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## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

Yes! I've been wanting to read it. This would be perfect. I don't know how active I'd be in the discussion though, because ds2 is due in Jan.


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## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Sure, I'd be interested. I read it a while back.

I actually provide home childcare, so was interested in the chapter on babysitters and daycare from a slightly different perspective....


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Aubergine68* 
Sure, I'd be interested. I read it a while back.

I actually provide home childcare, so was interested in the chapter on babysitters and daycare from a slightly different perspective....

What did you think from that perspective?


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## Aubergine68 (Jan 25, 2008)

Well, I'd have to reread it to be more specific, but it was good.

I had my dd in daycares from 18 mo through 3 yrs and we were very happy with them. I chose not to look for home childcare because I was afraid of the idea of one caregiver looking after my child with no supervision and no one else around to stop them from doing something wrong. THis is the #1 concern parents have with home childcare, according to my agency head.

There are safety issues with daycares too, though, the biggest being that in a centre with a lot of kids and multiple caregivers (and high turnover of caregivers) children can get lost in the shuffle and important instructions can get lost, no matter how many notes are put in files. The most dangerous times imo are when a child just starts in a daycare, when they are adapting (and being adapted to) the routines..

I provided care for a child who was abducted from a local daycare and taken on the run by a drug-addicted non-custodial parent, because a staff member didn't realize that that parent wasn't meant to pick up the child. The custodial parent gave up on daycares after getting the child back and came to me instead. There have also been daycares closed down in my area because a toddler was left outside in the play area and a baby was left sleeping in a crib when the staff went home (!)

Some of the interview questions PTG suggests are a bit unusual. I've heard other caregivers saying "I can't believe the parents asked me X. WTF?" when it was a question from Protecting the Gift. Again, I don't have a copy here, have to get it back from the library. I'll discuss that more when it comes to that chapter.

I see it as a HUGE big part of my job to help parents be comfortable with the care I provide, that their children are safe. I am with an agency, so a lot of the precautions it suggests are things I already have in place. And I am in Canada, so there are subtle differences in childcare practices here.

I have heard bad childcare stories from parents interviewing with me, but never a horror story (ETA -- well, except for the child abduction story) Most of the issues are more communication problems between parent and provider, differing expectations about money, hours of care, tv time, etc. A caregiving situation can be a bad fit, and not be unsafe, ykwim? The vast majority of caregivers in daycares and in dayhomes (what we call home daycares) love children and would give their own lives to keep their charges safe.

Also, I have clients that find me through my website, and I found PTG helpful in planning safe interview strategies. I mean, I have children in my home and have people I have never met who found me on the internet who want to come to my home, right? How do I know my children and I will be safe from them? So now I only do a first interview after hours when dh is home and am very very careful about giving my address out to anyone for any reason....


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Well, it looks like there is some interest.

Would starting the thread for the first chapter on Jan 3rd give everyone enough time to get a copy?


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

I read this a few years ago, and would love to do it again!


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## amandaleigh37 (Jul 13, 2006)

I've heard of the book here around MDC, but don't know much about it.... Can someone give a synopsis?


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

Oooh, I would love to take part in this! Off to see if the library has a copy!


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## nathansmum (Nov 13, 2003)

I purchased the book about a month ago after hearing it recommended on MDC. I haven't yet read it though, so this will be great to work through together.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Subbing.

I read it about 6+ months ago and have been meaning to pull it back out and read in more detail.

I'm certainly interested.


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## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

I love this book. I bought it on e-bay a few years ago and a friend urged me to read it while preg with DS2. I did and it taught me a valuable lesson about honoring my intuition. It helped me to sense that something was "off" with DS2 and that ultimately saved his life







Great book!


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## Maggirayne (Mar 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amandaleigh37* 
I've heard of the book here around MDC, but don't know much about it.... Can someone give a synopsis?

I enjoyed it, except for the gun chapter. I would like to read it again.

It is a lot of common sense stuff and also paying attention to your intuition. It's got good ideas and things to look for/ask, etc.

Oh, may I recommend this link, not related at all, but similar in being aware of what's around you.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Good book, nak, interested.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amandaleigh37* 
I've heard of the book here around MDC, but don't know much about it.... Can someone give a synopsis?

This is from a review on amazon.com:

"In this valuable, even necessary, book, he shatters many myths about the typical profiles of regular offenders and the prevalence of such problems as sexual abuse and kidnapping. He also deconstructs the wisdom of traditional maxims such as "Never talk to strangers" and "If you are ever lost, go to a policeman." Without offering a compendium of every conceivable danger, he identifies warning signals and real risks that are often easy to spot once you know what to look for. He offers practical advice on recognizing signs of sexual abuse, choosing a baby sitter or nanny, how to prepare kids for walking to school alone, and how to teach children about potential risks without making them afraid to venture out of the house. "

In short, it's a book about keeping your children safe and teaching them to keep themselves safe when they're ready.


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## DarkHorseMama (Mar 8, 2003)

_Protecting the Gift_ is my go-to book and my main reference source for parents. I am a trained sexual abuse awareness facilitator and have found no other book yet that conveys the message in quite the same gravity and language that Gavin de Becker does.

One of the best places to get the book is Amazon's used books. It is currently available there for less than $5.00 and half.com for less than $4.00.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I ordered mine from amazon today (I'd given it away). I'll plan to start the first discussion thread on 1/3.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

I am ALWAYS up for a book thread!!!

How are we going to do this? Like, a chapter a week and discuss while reading the next? (read ch1 and discuss it the next week while reading ch2) or how does this work?


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## rsps (Nov 20, 2001)

I read it years ago and have been meaning to read it again, so count me in.


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## mimie (Mar 7, 2003)

I'm in, I would like to re-read this (I read it before I had kids while I was in my MSW program).


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

How are we going to do this? Like, a chapter a week and discuss while reading the next? (read ch1 and discuss it the next week while reading ch2) or how does this work?
That's what I'm thinking. I'll start the thread for the first chapter on 1/3.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
That's what I'm thinking. I'll start the thread for the first chapter on 1/3.


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## pixiepunk (Mar 11, 2003)

subbing - i was just talking to some friends of mine about needing to make reading this book a priority. i bought it like a year ago and have only skimmed. so count me in!

oh, and FYI, for those who prefer audio - it's available through audible.com


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

I just read chapter one last night. I definitely think a chapter a week is doable. It took me about a half hour to read the first chapter, and I forced myself to put it down so I can participate in the discussion without getting mixed up. I am going to re-read the first chapter again on the 2nd to have it fresh in my mind. What a great discussion this should be!


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Subbing.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

i'll join. i have it, and have read it, and will gladly re-read and discuss. thanks!


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

I'll join too. I've been meaning to read it. I just got "the gift of fear" from the library and have a hold on "protecting the gift" so I'll hopefully have it in time to start with you.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

I wouldl like to participate. I will order it today.


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

I read "The Gift of Fear" and saw lots of recommendations on MDC for "Protecting the Gift" so I read it a few months ago and LOVED it!! My mom loved it too and we are now sharing it with parents we know...if I can get it back soon, I am in..if not, I will go from my(flawed)memory.


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## aidanraynesmom (Jun 12, 2008)

Ooh me too! I just read it and loved it! I'm dying to discuss!


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

I read this a long time ago and would like to re-read it and discuss it so count me in!


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I've been meaning to reread this book as it's been awhile, and I'd love to discuss it. My oldest is 5 now, and I'm curious as to how you teach your kids some of these tenets that we can share with them to make them safer. Heck, discussing safety in general is difficult for me. I always feel like I'm scaring him.







: but I want him to be prepared, educated, smart on these topics. For instance, the whole "ask a woman for help" idea, and not a man, is hard for me to explain. Rejecting offered help but asking someone yourself if lost. I cant' explain that one at all.


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## JenMidwife (Oct 4, 2005)

I've been meaning to get this too. Thanks for bringing up the idea!


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## MrsAprilMay (Jul 7, 2007)

I read this a few months ago after getting a recommendation on MDC. I'd love to read it again.

I got it really cheap on ebay. But it's very reasonable on Amazon and Half.com. If you can swing it, I really think its a book that is worth owning.


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## MaidenMoon (Nov 10, 2008)

I read 'The Gift of Fear' years ago and found many of my gut instincts were right on. I actually have 'Protecting the Gift' already, this is a great chance to dig it out of storage and finally read it. I'm in...


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## Bleu (Mar 6, 2004)

Hazelnut, great points - in the past, I just told my ds what to do and was happy if he could repeat some of it back to me. Now that he's older, we may have to get more into the whys and details, and I'm not ready for that, either!

Subbing - very interested in re-reading the book and hearing other folks' discussing how to put the ideas into practice in a way that respects AP beliefs and children's development.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

For instance, the whole "ask a woman for help" idea, and not a man, is hard for me to explain.
Dh and I have both explained to the kids that a woman is more likely than a man to make sure that you get help and find your parents. Thus, you find a woman, preferably with children if you can.


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## chamomeleon (Jun 6, 2005)

I just got a copy of this book through Bookmooch, so I'd love to join the discussion!


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Oooh, sure! I'd love to reread it. I think I have it on the shelf... if I can't find it, I guess I'll get another copy! I wonder if they have it for Kindle (my best Christmas gift!)?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
For instance, the whole "ask a woman for help" idea, and not a man, is hard for me to explain. Rejecting offered help but asking someone yourself if lost. I cant' explain that one at all.









Ok, so this will come up in the context of the chapter eventually ;-) but quickly.... My experience is, you don't have to explain these. My four-year-old was watching Caillou, and they modeled the "look for a police officer if you're lost" thing. So I asked him, if he was lost, who would he look for? And, without ANY prompting, he said he'd look for a mommy. And kids, unless they're extremely shy, will usually ask for help if they haven't been taught not to.

That's what I love about this book: it's totally about trusting your intuition and not letting it get drowned out by social messages of "propriety".


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

I can't wait until the thread is started tomorrow to discuss the first chapter.

I checked it out from the library (had read it a few years ago) and I guess my perspective has changed considerably since then.

So, I'm looking forward to the thread starting so I can get others' thoughts on some things.

Should be a good discussion!


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I'm going to get it going with some starter discussion questions in the morning.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

:


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## Maggirayne (Mar 6, 2007)

Cool, thanks for starting this, Phatui! I hope I packed it, we're at my IL's for the weekend! It was cool, I had it wishlisted and got it on PaperBackSwap like three days after I saw this thread!


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

I tried searching Amazon but I can't seem to find a large print edition. Does anyone know if they have a large print version?

Thanks,
~Cath


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Here ya go:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1020434


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## Bleu (Mar 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
My experience is, you don't have to explain these. My four-year-old was watching Caillou, and they modeled the "look for a police officer if you're lost" thing. So I asked him, if he was lost, who would he look for? And, without ANY prompting, he said he'd look for a mommy. And kids, unless they're extremely shy, will usually ask for help if they haven't been taught not to.

That's been my experience as well. We tell Bleuet "Look for a mommy" and as far as he's concerned, that is the gold standard of what you do if lost.


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## Surfacing (Jul 19, 2005)

:


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

My ds (5) says "Why a mommy? why not a daddy?" I suppose anyone with kids would be OK though. I think though, despite all his questions, he would look for a mommy if he were lost, now that we've talked about it. And that's what is important!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bleu* 
That's been my experience as well. We tell Bleuet "Look for a mommy" and as far as he's concerned, that is the gold standard of what you do if lost.


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## Bleu (Mar 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
I suppose anyone with kids would be OK though.

FWIW, that is not a conclusion de Becker shares. I'm not trying to talk you out of your opinion, just since it is a GoF thread, Gaven de Becker talks quite a bit about how if you're concerned about safety, your random stranger woman with kids in tow is a lot likelier to be a safe bet than your random similarly situated man. Obviously form your own conclusion, but I didn't want to let you take the author's advice and change it beyond his intended meaning without knowing it. Now you know and can do what seems right to you.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

It wasn't exactly a thought out conclusion or firm opinion, I was mostly just thinking out loud. I think any woman is safer than any man (statistically speaking), with or without kids, and I don't disagree with him. I _personally_ would probably think that any man _with_ kids is better than a man without. When I reread it I'll see what he says about dads. But this whole issue was my whole problem. My son just wanted to know WHY a mommy, and why not a man, why not a daddy. He's so close with his dad that it was a natural question for him. I posted not to say "any parent is OK" but b/c I didn't know how to answer that.


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## Bleu (Mar 6, 2004)

Oh, I see what you mean. I don't know what I'm going to say about that, either, when it eventually, inevitably comes up. I hate to put that sort of thing in our sons' heads, because it does seem a damning thing to say about their gender, and I don't want it to change how they feel about themselves...

I also worry about how the world will see them. I mean, I'm confident that your ds & my ds will be nurturing, safe boys, young men and adults for children to be around.... but of course, to the rest of the world, they will just be strangers. I have an acquaintance whose son was accused of inappropriate behavior and it was a nightmare. The dad was rock-solid in his belief in his son's version of events, but it was pretty terrifying before the boy was cleared.

Anyway, hopefully someone else will have some BTDT explanation to offer!


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:

My ds (5) says "Why a mommy? why not a daddy?" I suppose anyone with kids would be OK though. I think though, despite all his questions, he would look for a mommy if he were lost, now that we've talked about it. And that's what is important!
One of the reasons to look for a mom is b/c mom's stay with the kid until the the kid has been found by his own parent.
Men typically leave the kid with the authorities be it security guards or whatever...mom's finish the job.

I told my Dd to look for a mom b/c the mom's know how to find other other moms.


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
My ds (5) says "Why a mommy? why not a daddy?" I suppose anyone with kids would be OK though. I think though, despite all his questions, he would look for a mommy if he were lost, now that we've talked about it. And that's what is important!

Hazelnut,
At the risk of overanalyzing this here's my "take" on it. Your kid is unlikely to know for sure whether the woman or man in question is a Mom or a Dad. The presence of other kids would only seem to offer some assurance of safety --independent of the parent/child relationship-- if those kids are verbal. Not just verbal, but articulate enough for another concerned adult to get a sense that this man picked another kid up along the way, molested them and/or stashed them somewhere.

It's not hard to imagine a scenario where a family friend has been entrusted with someone else's kid(s). They may look like a Dad but they aren't and while they may or may not take advantage of the kid(s) in their care you don't want your child effectively relying upon the judgment of anyone that misplaced their trust.

When your own child is a little older you might be able to try and explain that in the absence of someone that is probably a Mom that they may be better off with someone with older kids that are calling them "Dad" than they would be with a solo female, unless she is giving off a really strong "Mommy vibe". Otherwise you probably want to err on the side of keeping it simple.

As DeBecker puts it, the statistics speak for themselves. We ignore that at our children's peril. Obviously, that doesn't make men inherently more evil than women. But for reasons probably beyond the scope of this book thread, that evil can express itself differently.

Thanks for the thought provoking question. It makes me wonder if I should make a game of having my DDs pick the Mommy out of the crowd.

~Cath


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## Bleu (Mar 6, 2004)

Heh. I have definitely crossed over to the "looks like a mommy" category, even if my ds isn't in my immediate presence. Small children mistake my legs for their mom's, bigger ones ask me for tissues, I get asked to help find somebody's mommy or to reach high-up things. It's all very sweet, except I don't want the tissues back when they're done using them!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipumpkins* 
One of the reasons to look for a mom is b/c mom's stay with the kid until the the kid has been found by his own parent.
Men typically leave the kid with the authorities be it security guards or whatever...mom's finish the job.

I didn't get that at first - I was thinking it was one of those typical "men say they can't find the ketchup so you have to go get it" things, but then I realized no, a lot of _men would be afraid to help a lost kid because they'd be afraid that they themselves would be mistaken for the predator_, where that wouldn't even occur to most women. And for men, I can see how that is a legitimate concern. It's f'ed up, but the public perception is real (that women are safe, men are potential predators) and we all have to deal with it.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

a lot of men would be afraid to help a lost kid because they'd be afraid that they themselves would be mistaken for the predator
The feeling I got from DeBecker is that men honestly aren't as emotionally involved in the process. Once they've handed a kid off to security or a store employee, they've done their part.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I have nothing to add to the discussion just yet but I got my copy today (finally!). Excited to start reading it tonight once the kids are asleep.

TBH, just glancing thru the book kinda has me freaked out! I tend to be really trusting of people and hope reading this doesn't scare me away from letting my kids do things in life.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

it's great to be trusting of people are are trust*worthy*- the trick is to screen out those who are not worthy of trust without going nuts. the book is good at pointing out strategies for being practical about who to trust- and the bottom line is, trust *yourself* and your own inner voice. always.


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

nak

does anyone dislike the book, or books like it?

from what i've read, it seems like it's the same-old thing:

a) trust your intuition

b) women, especially with children, are sensitive and are to be trusted

c) men are at best disinterested and kind of dangerous, and at worse perverted

i have always found "dramatised" descriptions of seemingly true crime, or attempted crime to be revolting, because it is meant to entertain and alarm, and the opening pages are just that. it's exactly what oprah does when dealing with these issues.... and this has all of the markers of an oprah-style best seller. prime-time tv is full of this stuff too.

imo, there are better ways to protect our children from harm than to read volume after volume of that-man-at-the-park-should-be-feared-and-questioned quasi-fiction.

the most obvious points of the book seem to be:

a) use common sense, and

b) trust that voice in your head.

we have known that since swinging down from the trees, this just restates this in twelve ways and makes millions while doing so.

...

maybe that old man watching children in park just lost his wife of 50 years and is trying to cheer his heart by watching children play? *that* is much more likely than something horrid.... but what's the first thing that many think? it's because of paranoia pedalling like this that they do.

i have had some gorgeous afternoons in the park with my friend and our daughters ruined because she has mused aloud about people there (or who could be watching from houses?!?) in this light.

sorry to rant, and i'm not trying to pick on anyone here, but these kinds of books make me angry and depressed because they instil fear in people (mostly mothers) and ruin a true sense of community.

trin


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## oldermom (Jan 6, 2007)

Trinnity, I have problems with the book, too, for many of the reasons you state. I also found the whole "list of questions" sections for sitters, teachers, etc. to be a bit formidable. I can't imagine having the courage to ask all those questions.

Oldermom, sighing, as her 5 y.o. dd is approaching these scary years


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Thanks for your post, Trinitty. Like I said, I just got the book but I've never really felt uncomfortable with my decisions regarding DD's going to friends houses, staying the night, riding her bike, etc., until someone else made me question it. And I don't ask a million questions first (we do know the families) nor have I ever thought twice about one of her friends having two (very nice) teen brothers.









I guess I am just hoping that this book does not cause me to question my instinct, which, so far has done me well. The reason I am interested in reading it though is because DH and I have different opinions on protecting our kids and I don't want to ignore his fears, yk? He's more likely to say, "no, she can't go because what if x,y,z happens?"

We have though, recently had a bad experience with a new babysitter (who we won't use again) the kids were fine, yes but I just remembered this was a situations where I guess my instinct was wrong.


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
...
from what i've read, it seems like it's the same-old thing:

Trinity,
I don't think it was the "same-old thing" when he first wrote this. More importantly, I think the concept of recognizing and amplifying your intuition --and your children's-- is still fresh. He doesn't simplisticly say "listen to your instincts".

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
imo, there are better ways to protect our children from harm than to read volume after volume of that-man-at-the-park-should-be-feared-and-questioned quasi-fiction.

Actually, that's precisely his point. Kidnapping by a complete stranger is extremely rare. That's not to say you shouldn't be mindful of his "ACE" acronym. You certainly should prevent *A*ccess, and *C*ontrol of your child and block a potential predator's *E*scape path. But what you you shouldn't do is obsess over that to the exclusion of the the far greater danger from those people that may have snuck under your radar screen and that your child already has contact with.

He is warning against a false sense of security with people that feel familiar, for whatever reason, whether they are a friend of a friend, soccer coach, the likeable casual acquaintance, etc. An over-emphasis on "stranger danger" makes people feel like they are being proactive when in fact it may be distracting them from the greater danger they feel ill-equipped to deal with.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
the most obvious points of the book seem to be:

a) use common sense, and
b) trust that voice in your head.

Not to pick a nit here but, unless I've missed something, so far he hasn't referred to common sense at all. He does compare what he calls the "logical brain" to the "wild brain", with an empasis on the "wild brain". I think the logical brain might more accurately be characterized as the "civilized brain". Which is to say that you shouldn't override your gut reactions by rationalizing (using "logic") for fear of hurting someone's feelings (which involves being "civilized" or observing propriety).

Using his opening example, it is only with the benefit of hindsight or Monday morning quarterbacking that it sounds like "common sense". The thought process he describes was recognized and acted on at a primal level: 1) I can't outrun him so I need to walk and hope that I don't alert him that I'm onto him; 2) I can't use the keyless entry since all the doors will unlock and give him multiple points of access; etc. The step by step analysis didn't surface to a conscious level until later.

If I have one criticism of this section of the book it would be that he doesn't make this distinction a little more explicit. Her actions seem like a well reasoned action plan but really it's Mama Bear on Adrenaline.

That isn't to say common sense doesn't apply. This guy made her nervous and common sense says that she should have respected that. But first she would have needed to recognize the instinct and intuition (the voice in her head) that were probably socialized out of her. That voice is useless if you have it on low volume and keep hitting the "mute" button.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
...
maybe that old man watching children in park just lost his wife of 50 years and is trying to cheer his heart by watching children play? *that* is much more likely than something horrid.... but what's the first thing that many think? it's because of paranoia pedalling like this that they do.
...
sorry to rant, and i'm not trying to pick on anyone here, but these kinds of books make me angry and depressed because they instil fear in people (mostly mothers) and ruin a true sense of community.
...

Again, the author's emphasis isn't on "stranger danger". And even if it were you can certainly protect your child from the hypothetical widower without demonizing him (or men at the park in general) or becoming an emotional wreck. You simply follow the ACE acronym (*A*cess, *C*ontrol, blocked *E*scape).

And he isn't instilling fear. In fact, he is trying to liberate people from the paralyzing fear of things that are possible, but less likely, and which distract us from the greater danger from people we have a false sense of familiarity with.

Not to be too philosophical about it, but the only community this threatens is the false sense of community that arises from a false sense of familiarity and security. It is precisely that artificial sense of familiarity, security and community that predators try to foster. DeBecker is warning us against being unwitting accomplices to that.

Anywhoo, that's my take on it for what it's worth.
~Cath


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CathMac* 

And he isn't instilling fear. In fact, he is trying to liberate people from the paralyzing fear of things that are possible, but less likely, and which distract us from the greater danger from people we have a false sense of familiarity with.

Not to be too philosophical about it, but the only community this threatens is the false sense of community that arises from a false sense of familiarity and security. It is precisely that artificial sense of familiarity, security and community that predators try to foster. DeBecker is warning us against being unwitting accomplices to that.

Anywhoo, that's my take on it for what it's worth.
~Cath

Cath,

Thank you for your take on it. For someone who has just started (barely) the book, this is very helpful.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:

i have had some gorgeous afternoons in the park with my friend and our daughters ruined because she has mused aloud about people there (or who could be watching from houses?!?) in this light.
To me reading this book would have the opposite effect. you would trust instincts to feel whether it was an old man filling his heart after a loss but your heart would also let you know if that same old man were up to no good.

Like the instance with Dd and the man taking pictures..many people might say, "Oh he was taking pictures of the beach or the sun but I have seen many people on the beach and never once did my hair stand on end and when I saw this man...I knew he was up to no good. Before reading this book I might have questioned that feeling and tried to talk myself out of it by telling myself he was just taking pictures .
But having the courage to trust my "wild brain" I knew he was up to no god and I stared him off.
the book actually helped me trust more and showed me not to scare my kids with stranger danger but rather to let them feel out a situation.

I don't think "let your kids talk to strangers" is the same old thing. I think "stranger danger" is the same old thing.


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
Cath,

Thank you for your take on it. For someone who has just started (barely) the book, this is very helpful.


Drummer's Wife,
This thread is a great way to "process" what I'm reading. I'm glad my musings are useful to someone else.
~Cath


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## CathMac (Jan 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipumpkins* 
...
I don't think "let your kids talk to strangers" is the same old thing. I think "stranger danger" is the same old thing.

hipumpkins,
That about sums it up. Thanks for being more succinct than me.








~Cath


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Here's our thread for ch. 3:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1024016


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I just saw this now. For me, the "trust your intuition" thing is actually not old news, just b/c we usually don't hear it explained so well or in this way. And I think he is right, that we are taught to be polite and override it, or to just ignore it in favor of being sensible, polite, etc. It made a lot of sense to me when he explains that intuition is hardly anything that is vague, or new agey, but is in fact your unconscious mind collecting information without you even realizing it. To me his point is that we can be less afraid (like your friend) if we _are_ confident in our intuition.

that being said, I also did not at all care for the dramatizations. A few of them really bothered me. I don't recall him using a lot though, and I'm trying to imagine a book without a single one and I think it would be difficult, since they often illustrate what he is trying to say. Maybe he could have only used ones that work out, like the HOlly story in the beginning. Most of them do I think, but there is one where a boy is abducted (in the shoe store) and it is very hard to read, even though we have all heard of stories like this.

I think the male/female thing is based on statistics rather than stereotypes.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
nak

does anyone dislike the book, or books like it?

from what i've read, it seems like it's the same-old thing:

a) trust your intuition

b) women, especially with children, are sensitive and are to be trusted

c) men are at best disinterested and kind of dangerous, and at worse perverted

i have always found "dramatised" descriptions of seemingly true crime, or attempted crime to be revolting, because it is meant to entertain and alarm, and the opening pages are just that. it's exactly what oprah does when dealing with these issues.... and this has all of the markers of an oprah-style best seller. prime-time tv is full of this stuff too.

imo, there are better ways to protect our children from harm than to read volume after volume of that-man-at-the-park-should-be-feared-and-questioned quasi-fiction.

the most obvious points of the book seem to be:

a) use common sense, and

b) trust that voice in your head.

we have known that since swinging down from the trees, this just restates this in twelve ways and makes millions while doing so.

...

maybe that old man watching children in park just lost his wife of 50 years and is trying to cheer his heart by watching children play? *that* is much more likely than something horrid.... but what's the first thing that many think? it's because of paranoia pedalling like this that they do.

i have had some gorgeous afternoons in the park with my friend and our daughters ruined because she has mused aloud about people there (or who could be watching from houses?!?) in this light.

sorry to rant, and i'm not trying to pick on anyone here, but these kinds of books make me angry and depressed because they instil fear in people (mostly mothers) and ruin a true sense of community.

trin


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## BonMaman (Sep 25, 2005)

subbing... I read most of this book a year or so ago. I'm still working through this thread, but am so glad to see it and the related one on chapter three.

Thanks!


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

The discussion has been moved to the Book Clubs forum. I'm putting links in the first post.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

We're getting ready to start on ch. 4 today. Please feel free to join us in the Book Clubs forum.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I added the book club threads to the first post.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Here's the thread for ch. 5:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1031806


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

All right, I'm a slacker. I finally posted the thread for ch. 6 and it should be hitting the Book Clubs forum today.


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