# Any former day care workers think it's GOOD for kids?



## CinnamonDeMarco (Nov 4, 2005)

I have read a few posts saying something like, "I used to work in day care and I know I never want my kids in day care."

I used to work in day care too. I also do not want my kids to go to day care. I just read a thread about a SAHM who is wondering if her child would be better off in day care full time and I thought, "She has obviously never worked in a day care and doesn't really know what goes on there." But maybe I am wrong. Is there there anyone who really knows what happens in day care, and things it is great for kids?

If you currently own/run a day care, I think you have pressure to say, "Yes my day care is great!" So that is why I am looking for former day care workers. I am not looking for a debate. I am just curious.


----------



## punkinsmommy (Apr 28, 2006)

I used to work in daycare and I do think it's beneficial for some kids. We had a few kids with behavioral issues that benefited alot from being in the center I was at. But in general, for the average kid I don't think there is a benefit to daycare, although I don't necessarily think it's harmful either.

I do know that I personally have not, nor plan to put my kids into a day care center. When I return to school I plan on utilizing family and friends for childcare if needed.


----------



## Qtopia (Dec 24, 2002)

I worked in one of "the best" day care centers (NAEYC certified, yadda yadda) in a very progressive town and was HORRIFIED by what I saw there. I quit cold-turkey after one month because it was literally killing my soul. This was before I even had kids. God only knows how I'd feel now.

BUT...

I currently work PT as a babysitter (I take care of 3 school-aged kids, 3 afternoons a week in their home) and I think this set up (in-home, low ratio) is ideal. I firmly believe that this family has come up with a way for mom and dad to continue to work in careers they love and excel in, be *VERY* present in their childrens' lives, and provide them with a caregiver (me, LOL!) with whom they can develop a close relationship. Before they hired me, this family had used the same babysitter for the past 10 years and was almost like a family member (she took care of the kids from babyhood until recently). As the kids grew up they transitioned from FT in-home care with her to care after school with her. And now I provide the after-school care. IMO this type of child care scenario (with a very low child to caregiver ratio) can be very, very good for everyone involved, and I don't think that a SAHM scenario would be better for this family. But then again, I don't believe that the SAHM scenario is ideal for *every* family, either.


----------



## Boobs (Apr 17, 2004)

Well, my mom owned a daycare when I was growing up and then I worked in one when my oldest was a baby.
I think it _CAN_ be good for some kids. It is _possible_.

Sadly, it isn't, 95% of the time.

That said, my dd LOVED preschool when she was 3 and that was in a daycare/church facility. She was there all day as I worked full time.


----------



## swebster (Dec 7, 2004)

I've been thinking about this a lot lately...

in highschool I worked at a large daycare center and I would absolutely never ever ever send my children there. It was staffed by mostly wonderful women (a few exceptions really make a difference!) but in general it was a sad kind of place. The kids endured, but rarely enjoyed their time there.

After highschool and after traveling a bit I decided to open my own daycare in my first home. I remember that I wanted some way to make a living before I went to college and enjoyed working with kids, but other than that I don't know how I lucked into such a great life. I didn't have kids of my own, but my house was completely child-centered (ie...no adult furniture







). I had a group of very attached, co-sleeping, cdiapering, extended bfding, and absolutely marvelous parents who taught me a lot. For three years (with a five month break in the middle) my days were magical...and the kids in my care were absolutely thriving and happy. My group started out mostly when they were 15-19 months old and I got to have them until they were nearly 4. I had so much energy then! Building forts, daily nature walks, dance classes, library story times, napping like a pile of puppies, baking bread, yoga, raising baby ducks, naked backyard sprinkler fun, and ART ART ART ART!
There was something about the group dynamic that was so awesome...I still remember the eight of them sitting around the table at lunch chanting and pounding their dishes "broccoli, broccoli...we demand broccoli!!!" in unison. Or the sound of hysterical laughter as I chased them around the house with the creepy raggedy-ann doll that they loved to fear!

Fast forward nearly 10 years (OMG has it been that long?) and now I am proud mama to my first. I was determined that since I have spent much of my adult life taking care of other peoples children (during college I nannied, worked in a kindergarten class and taught art classes), now it was my turn to take care of my own. DH and I have really juggled these past 10 months to avoid daycare, meaning that Bea even came to work with me for the first 7 (until crawling and shouting were the fun new tricks!) Now I work part time (17 hrs/wk) and DH has adjusted his schedule so that he can be home with her mornings. It's tough. we see less of each other than we'd like. we often "take turns" with her instead of spending time as a family. I'm bored. Bea is bored. we're in a rut. Yesterday after a long and tedious day I actually said to DH "maybe daycare isn't such a bad idea"







Fortunately, we can't afford daycare







so I'm forced to step up my efforts at finding activities that get us out of the house and allow Bea to intereact with other kids ( she loves other kids so much ....she goes ape - waving and swatting the air for a high-five, blowing kisses, laughing hysterically, doing her little furrowed brow, gap-toothed 'super-charged-smile') I am desperate for a playgroup!!! AAAAACK!

anyway...um...back to my point.

maybe my daycare was special...sprinkled in fairy dust or something. But if such a thing existed right now for Bea (well, maybe not right now, maybe a few months from now...) I would seriously consider it. Unfortunately I don't think it does. The combination of having a group a parents that knew eachother and were friends beforehand and a young and energetic person that devoted her days to the kids and then could put it all away at 6:00 was pretty unique IMO.


----------



## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

I used to volunteer in a childcare center, and I have a home daycare in my home now. The difference is night and day. I've spent a lot of time in other home daycare too. I can see the appeal that centers have because there is more than one adult there, but it's just too chaotic, hard to form attachments, high staff turn over, stricter discipline techniques because they have to always treat everyone the same. Even after saying all of that, I think it's good for some children, children that don't have a good homelife. I think that 99% of the time homedaycare is better than a center. The children can form an attachment to their caregiver because he/she isn't going anywhere most likely. I don't think that full time care is "good" for any child that has a good homelife, but I don't think it's damaging either if they are getting quality care from someone that they can grow to love, who will love them in return. I also think that at around 3 years old it's good to start part time group care if you don't have the resources to find playmates for your children. Most providers have one day a week that another child doesn't use or something that they'd be happy to fill with a child that just needs the social time. A child that only comes for social time isn't likely to be brought when they are sick, lol.

So, do I think CENTERs are good for kids? NO!!! , unless homelife is the pits.

Do I think homedaycares are good for kids? Yes!!! It really can become a second home to them, which is a good thing if mom and dad have to work. Most providers teach self help and living skills because they are at home


----------



## ToniaStarr (Sep 27, 2005)

I used to work in daycare before I had children and now am a full time SAHM. Being on both ends of teh spectrum I can say honestly I am gratful to be able to stay home with my kids. It is best for them. BUT I do feel soem children who are home all day with thier parents can actually be better off in daycare IF it is a warm loving enviroment with not too many children. (a good teacher to child ratio) I never thought this way but recently I began to babysit for a 9 month old . Her mom s a single mom and is not at all active in her childs life. She does not carry her around, play with her or really interact. It is more like a robot, she feeds and chnges her and puts her to bed. She is not neglected in that sense but is not getting teh love she needs. Well, in teh few weeks I have cared for her she has blossomed and started babbling more and smiling and her motor skills are better. I can see how some women are just not meant to be SAHM and in those cases thank god there are peopel out there willing to help. I do not mean this against working moms, just a personal example from my life. I think best case scenario the child is at home with a parent or grandparent , next best is a home babysitter or care provider and least favorable is daycare.


----------



## Hey Mama! (Dec 27, 2003)

I worked in a daycare in college that I thought was good at the time. Now I look back and see that one teachers behavior was atrocious but overall it was a good daycare. I then stayed at home for 3 years with my own children, and recently went back to work in a daycare. I am horrified daily about what goes on in this center. Lack of activities for the children, babies been left to scream their little heads off, general chaos in all rooms, etc. I hate it...

But, if the childcare center is good then it is beneficial to those children who would otherwise be neglected at home.


----------



## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

I don't think large centers are good at all. I would never put my child in one, I was horrified at what I saw when I worked there. I opened my own home daycare and it's just so different. I think that for some children, daycare is great for them.


----------



## ibex67 (Feb 24, 2006)

My aunt and uncle run a chain of very high end day care and after school care centers. I have to say I am very impressed by what I see there. And they are proud of the services they offer. What has soured them on the business and made them upset is how the parents are. If they were open 10 hours a day, then there would be parents who would have their kids there that long. And these are two income professional families in big homes with new cars.

Seeing their centers, knowing their philosophy and hearing their stories has made me come to this conclusion.

The issue is not necessarily day care or not. It's what _kind_ of day care and how _much_ day care and how committted/conscious the parents are in general. It's a combination of factors that determines whether or not it's a good match for a particular kid.


----------



## CinnamonDeMarco (Nov 4, 2005)

I am not seeing any glowing recommendations for day care centers from people who have actually worked in them. "It's better than being in a neglectful/abusive home." doesn't sound like you think it is good. It's just better than some bad homes.

I'm not sure what people mean by saying, "It's not good, but not damaging."

Swebster, your home-day care sounded awsome.

I did child care in my home for 1-2 children (plus my one son). I felt the children would have been better off with their parents. It was sad when I saw the baby's first steps. The Mom didn't seem upset about it though. He weaned at about 8 months because the Mom couldn't successfully pump milk at work and he was so used to bottles of formula he refused to nurse at home. She even tried nursing him while on her lunch break and he refused. The mom was very sad about that. She told me plainly, she was working to keep up her lifestyle. She didn't NEED the money. I think the child would have been better off being breastfed and nurtured by his mother, with less material things. The other child I watched Mother had to work for the money. The girl went to school, after, school care. On weekends and holidays she stayed with me or a family member's house. We all agreed, it would be nice if she got to be home with her Mom more, instead of with me.

I try not to buy anything on the weekends because the woman working at my local supermarkets, and K-Mart have school-aged kids. They are not able to spend the day with their kids because they have to work. I feel like I am helping take away their family-time by buying things. (For some reason, men are not cashiers at these places.) I am glad we don't have any open-24-hours stores, like Walmart where I live. I think it is really hard on families.


----------



## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CinnamonDeMarco*
I try not to buy anything on the weekends because the woman working at my local supermarkets, and K-Mart have school-aged kids. They are not able to spend the day with their kids because they have to work. I feel like I am helping take away their family-time by buying things.

These cashiers probably work weekends because they need to earn money (and/or they *like* working), and not because they have to be available for individuals to buy things. That would be the shop *owners*.


----------



## CinnamonDeMarco (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hhurd*
These cashiers probably work weekends because they need to earn money (and/or they *like* working), and not because they have to be available for individuals to buy things. That would be the shop *owners*.

The store is open so people can shop there. If no one shops on Sundays the store will start closing on Sundays. What if I am that one person who made it profitable for the store to stay open on Sunday? I suppose a store like Wal-Mart might still stay open, even though no one shopped. I'm sure they would schedule a lot less cashiers though.

One nurse in the hospital works 7a.m.-7p.m. every weekend. I told her that it must be frustrating to miss the kids every weekend. Can you request a weekend off? I asked. She surprised me and said her kids "..are too troublesome. I don't want to be with them."







I guess not everybody wants to be with their kids. I'd like to think the avarage woman would prefer to work while her kids are in school and be able to spend weekends with their kids.

I know I would have my panties in a bunch if I had to work weekends, while my school aged kids were without Mama. I'd like to spend at least one day with them a week. I used to be sad when I had to miss family picnics and parties to work my low paying day-care center job. I'd have a weekday off, so it wasn't even like I was making overtime. Requesting every weekend off was considered not being a team player. I'm sure it's the same deal while working at the supermarket.


----------



## Boobs (Apr 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CinnamonDeMarco*
One nurse in the hospital works 7a.m.-7p.m. every weekend. I told her that it must be frustrating to miss the kids every weekend. Can you request a weekend off? I asked. She surprised me and said her kids "..are too troublesome. I don't want to be with them."







I guess not everybody wants to be with their kids.


I see you've met my mother.







She just got my 16 year old brother his own apartment.


----------



## wawap (Jun 28, 2004)

I'd be willing to bet that many of those women, while they would rather be home with their kids on the weekends, have made the decision that apartment/heat/food/etc. are pretty darn important. Maybe they're off on Mondays & Tuesdays with their kids?


----------



## la mamita (Apr 10, 2005)

***


----------



## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CinnamonDeMarco*
I know I would have my panties in a bunch if I had to work weekends, while my school aged kids were without Mama.

Well, panties in a bunch or no, I'd assume that you'd be working because you needed to earn money to support your family, and that your panties would be in a bigger bunch if the store that you worked in closed on the days that you worked.

And, maybe the kids enjoy their weekends with their father...


----------



## la mamita (Apr 10, 2005)

***


----------



## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I loved my classroom at the last center I was at (management was a different story, but because of my strong teaching team--a co-teacher and assistant, I was the lead--we didn't feel the effects of that).

I thought it was an awesome environment, but mostly because of the individual children involved. Would I ever see a group of kids that had that kind of chemistry, and awesome parents who were almost all involved not only in classroom activities, but also doing playdates with each other outside of the center, ect? Probably not. I think that's why I wouldn't choose daycare for my kid--because I would have no control over who was in the class (chemistry), and only minimal-to-no control over the chemistry/effectivness of the teaching team (assuming it wasn't some poor teacher in there by her/himself).

Our class was very much like a family. My co-teacher was male, the gender ratio was near 50/50 (first time ever that'd happened for mer). I was the youngest as the lead and had no kids, but my co-teacher had older kids so he was a seasoned parent, and our part time assistant teacher was a grandma who was a wealth of knowledge and who really was one of my strongest mentors (so much for the 'assistant' part). We were given a great deal of autonomy within our program, so we did our own thing and created a strong family environment. The one thing I didn't like was the fact that kids had to move on past a certain age. I liked that we had some degree of say in which preschool room they went to (and that I loved both sets of those teachers), but it was very rough on us (I don't remember a kiddo that we didn't cry about during breaks on 'moving day')

If there was a situation where I could guarantee 3 more adults in my kids' lives who loved them so much, who enjoyed our family so much, and who had classmates' parents who cared about them and got to know them as well, I would choose that in a heartbeat. But it would be only part time because I am jealous of my children's younger years and don't want to share so much.

This is why I'm not sure that this is that much of a fair question. Because even the best daycare worker with the best setup (and I believe I had it at my last job--right down to the pay) probably wouldn't choose to put their kid in daycare because *they enjoy and love being around their young child, and even other people's young children...so much they wanted a career in it*.

But yes, I do think excellent daycare has benefits. However, it's out of the price range of the majority of folks who would MOST benefit, and too often is used as warehousing by people who "should" know better. But that's more often because of the parents/adults involved. Not because the concept of daycare is awful.

After my last experience at a very small non-profit center, though, I can tell you I will NEVER work for a corporate day care center again. NO matter how high end. I don't think that business and daycare mix well. Something always gets the shaft in that arrangement, and it's sure as hell NOT the 'business' end.


----------



## CinnamonDeMarco (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *la mamita*
The only kind of job I can afford is nights and weekends--stuff like KMart, grocery stores, etc. I can't afford to put DS in daycare to work that kind of a job, so I need the shifts that are nights/weekends so my parents can take care of the baby during that time. Many people work 9-5 M-F (even people who don't have kids) and use nights/weekends to do their shopping--thus there is a demand for the stores to be open. And I personally am grateful for that because it gives me a chance to get a job. You aren't doing the mama cashiers out there any favors by boycotting stores on weekends. (You also probably aren't doing a lot of damage either, but maybe you will reconsider why these jobs ARE a better option for some of us mamas)

Ok this is getting off topic but I am talking only about Moms of school aged kids not babies. Babies don't go to school M-F. The woman at these stores have school aged kids.

Hhurd, I'd rather work M-F and have weekends off if I had school aged kids.. I am a SAHM so I can easily shop during the cashiers preferred shifts. (assuming they really do prefer M-F day shift) Maybe the school aged kids enjoy it you said. Do you think they like seeing their Mother after school at 3:00 2 days a week and after 6:00p.m. all the other days? That is what happens when Moms work weekends. Don't you seriously think they would like their Mom to be off on the weekends?

Someone start another thread for this.

Sorry Boobs.

Back to the OP topic, Tigerchild I have never heard of a center with such low ratios. I also think business and daycare don't mix well.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I think it can be good for some children who are lucky enough to be in good day care with caring, attentive caregivers. I worked in many childcare situations and those were not the majority unfortunately.

Anyway yes I think it can be good for kids, but it often isnt.


----------



## CinnamonDeMarco (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UnschoolnMa*
I think it can be good for some children who are lucky enough to be in good day care with caring, attentive caregivers. I worked in many childcare situations and those were not the majority unfortunately.

Anyway yes I think it can be good for kids, but it often isnt.

Did you work in a good day care that was good for kids? I'm interested in hearing more about it.


----------



## Parker'smommy (Sep 12, 2002)

I worked at a preschool/daycare in college.

I thought it was awesome when I worked there...thought it was the best enviornment, yada yada yada. It was considered the best place in our area and I was very thankful to work there and recommended it to everyone.

Now, 15 years later and with kids of my own....I feel bad. It was NOT a preschool, but a glorified daycare. The kids were cared for well, and the workers cared about the kids deeply, but it wasn't a great program. The kids didn't eat very healthy meals/snacks either. I would nEVER feed my kids the junk we fed those kids. It was an expensive place too. I couldn't afford the price, now 15 years later. I can't imagine what they charge now! The room had the correct ratios by the state and they were never compromised. But really, it was too many kids for us. I wouldn't send my own kids there...ever.


----------



## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CinnamonDeMarco*
Did you work in a good day care that was good for kids? I'm interested in hearing more about it.

One of them was what I would call pretty good. (Staff wasnt always ideal, IMO, but people are human and all that entails) It was gentle as far as any discipline went, and even the youngest children were treated respectfully in my experience. For the kids who spent several hours there a day the people became like family, and I was happy that the turnover rate wasn't terrible.

I left a daycare job that was no good. The day was spent in conflict and confrontation with kids, the ratio was no good, kids were coerced to eat, babies left for long periods of time in playpens and swings etc. I didn't feel good about it.


----------



## AmyAngel (Dec 3, 2004)

I also think daycare CAN be good for SOME kids. Just like anything else, there's no absolutes.

During college I worked summers at daycare (and after while looking for a job). I worked the first summer at a large but family-owned daycare. It was OK, but I felt the classes were too big, the kids got moved between classes too often (baby room to ones, ones to pre-twos, pre-twos to twos, twos to threes... on up until K-3 and 4-6 grades) and there were too many variables. Like the couple teachers who were obviously there because that's all they could find to do to make money while getting care for THEIR kids, or the class with the completely out-of-control four year old who would go on rampages and push over large bookshelves - he obviously had needs of some kind that were not being met, but created a fearful situation for the other children (and teachers, one of whom was his mom!). The baby room was a calm, happy place full of well-cared for babies every time I was in there, the majority of the workers in there were grandmas who loved to rock, play with and feed babies.

The other daycare I worked for was a small family owned center. I felt that was a much better situation - class sizes were smaller, and the kids stayed in the same class with the same teachers for much longer. There was more turnover of children than teachers, though many of them stayed for years. Even once the child moved up, they were just in the next room over, and were able to see and interact with the old teachers daily, just as they had been seeing and interacting with the new teachers for a long time before moving. The teachers were able to become well-attached to the children, and get to know them individually. We were able to get to know the parents a bit as well, and tried our best to be partners with the parents in the childs care. Was it better than staying home with their parents? Well, no, not for most. There are situations, though, were this was the best practical scenario for some of the children. We had children of teen parents still in school, children in poor families where one parent HAD to work, children in single parent families where again the parent needed to work, and children in a home where one parent was being investigated for obvious abuse (though we were pretty sure they should have been investigating BOTH parents. We tried to provide a loving sanctuary for all the children, especially those.







). We loved each of those kids and took care of them as best we were able.

That was a long rambly way to say that daycare fills a need for many families, though I think the more family-like the better in most cases.

I'm planning to become a SMBC, so my child will have to go to daycare. I hope to find a small center or family daycare that can be a sort of second home for my child, where the adults truly care for the children and consider themselves partners with the parents.

Maybe I better start looking now!


----------



## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CinnamonDeMarco*
Hhurd, I'd rather work M-F and have weekends off if I had school aged kids.. I am a SAHM so I can easily shop during the cashiers preferred shifts. (assuming they really do prefer M-F day shift) Maybe the school aged kids enjoy it you said. Do you think they like seeing their Mother after school at 3:00 2 days a week and after 6:00p.m. all the other days? That is what happens when Moms work weekends. Don't you seriously think they would like their Mom to be off on the weekends?

Yes, OT but since you raised the issue and questioned me directly...
I said kids enjoy being with their FATHER, not enjoy not having their mother home 24/7. Children benefit from the care of both parents, not just one. Where is the other caregiver in your scenario? (Single parents would have even more of a need to work, I'd think) And school age children may like their moms home on weekends, but they also like a place to live, clothes to wear, food to eat, and medical care.


----------



## beansavi (Jun 26, 2005)

Former day care worker when in college here....

What I remember first is that I had to go from baby to baby and give each some one-on-one time. It took a while to get back around to each of them. Lots of them got used to daycare, but some never did, and cried the entire day, months after they had been there. I also worked in the older rooms. I was preggers when I was there, and it is what influenced me to be as much of a SAHM as I can, even if we are livin' on a shoe-string.

I think that at that age, kids don't need education and socialization, they need to _touch Mommy_ all the time. Just like scientists agree those monkeys do---remember that old film from high school about baby monkeys in a _warm_ observation room, who had the choice to snuggle against a wire mommy or one covered in fuzzy cloth?

Of course, they chose the fuzzy, orange shag carpet mommy---babies need to touch their mommy, constantly, down to their primal monkey-self!

Of course by "Mommy", I mean the person/people closest to them in their life, their family members, however that ends up being.

All this is my own opinion, based on my own life experience.

I am not in the mood to get flamed for just sharing my life experience. 'Kay?


----------



## lisac77 (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hhurd*
Yes, OT but since you raised the issue and questioned me directly...
I said kids enjoy being with their FATHER, not enjoy not having their mother home 24/7. Children benefit from the care of both parents, not just one. Where is the other caregiver in your scenario? (Single parents would have even more of a need to work, I'd think) And school age children may like their moms home on weekends, but they also like a place to live, clothes to wear, food to eat, and medical care.

Or those school aged kids could be homeschooled and not driven by traditional schedules.

I think the OP is going to have to boycott a lot if she wants to avoid 24/7 work environments, including, but not limited to: cell phone companies (I work for one in a 24x7 environment), police/fire/emergency medical services, stores, hospitals, radio stations, etc., I could go on but I won't.


----------



## CinnamonDeMarco (Nov 4, 2005)

hhurd and lisac77,

Start another thread. I'll post on it.

I shouldn't have brought it up on this thread.


----------



## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

I worked briefly at a day care when I was in college. I think that unless there's some problem with a child's home life, the best a day care can do is not be a negative influence. Basically my attitude towards day care centers is the same as my attitude toward schools (well, I really don't make much of a distinction between them)--they should be avalable for those who need them, they should be as humane as possible, but they should not be the norm or the default.

If I couldn't be a sahm, I would either get a regular babysitter/nanny or use a home day care before I would use a day care center.


----------



## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I think it depends on the daycare. I worked in a wonderful Montessori Early Head start program (same as head start but for 0-3). I think it was definitely good for the children that attended and compared to traditional childcare... it was a lot better. But even being the way it was, I still think my children are better off at home with me.

Oh and after working at an afterschool program for 2 yrs at a public elem school... I wouldn't send my kids to one of those (although I'm sure the quality varies).


----------



## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

I worked at what most people would consider an excellent program, which calls itself preschool, although since if offers 12 hours a day of care let's just call it really good day care.

The only thing that the facility lacked was enough outdoor space. It had a resident professional artist, dedicated and well-trained staff, fantastic supplies, etc etc etc.

It was still really and obviously damaging to the children who were just not that social, easily overstimulated, and extremely typically gendered - ie it was bad for the really aggressive boys and for the shy, retiring, highly verbal girls. Something creepy I have noticed about people with postgraduate degrees in early childhood education is that they get really really good at justifying to themselves that they value their program over the child - if a child is suffering, it's not because there's something wrong with the program or that it's a bad match; oh no no no. The child, the 3 or 4 year old child, has a problem, and has to "make a change," in preschool teacher language, to fit back in with the group.

I think this kind of group care, no matter how nice it looks, leads to a flattening of personality for even the children who seem to be thriving, and can cause serious and life-long damage in the children who are constantly being made to feel bad because they just don't feel like going down the hall to music. 3 and 4 year olds are too young for regimentation, they're too young for groupthink.


----------



## CinnamonDeMarco (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urklemama*
Something creepy I have noticed about people with postgraduate degrees in early childhood education is that they get really really good at justifying to themselves that they value their program over the child - if a child is suffering, it's not because there's something wrong with the program or that it's a bad match; oh no no no. The child, the 3 or 4 year old child, has a problem, and has to "make a change," in preschool teacher language, to fit back in with the group.


I've noticed this in people who work in day care and preschool. They consider unusual or inconvient behavior in kids something that needs to be fixed. I remember one little boy chose to sit alone at lunch and the other teachers were like, "Oh he's autistic." and made him sit with the other kids at all times. I tried to explain to them that it is okay to sit at a table no one else is sitting at, but they disagreed.

I feel so sorry for the families who were made to feel like something was wrong with their child, when nothing was wrong with the child.


----------



## Canadianmommax3 (Mar 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hhurd*
Well, panties in a bunch or no, I'd assume that you'd be working because you needed to earn money to support your family, and that your panties would be in a bigger bunch if the store that you worked in closed on the days that you worked.

And, maybe the kids enjoy their weekends with their father...

I work at a hospital and work different shifts, yes alot of weekends, but i save on childcare because than the kids are at home with their father.
I also have to work Christmas, Easters, and other holidays. If i could stay home i would,(i only work parttime) but it pays really well so that is the price i pay.


----------



## swebster (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urklemama*
3 and 4 year olds are too young for regimentation, they're too young for groupthink.

I have found the opposite to be true...my experience with the 3/4 crowd has convinced me that they _crave_ groupthink. Is this always the case? well, of course not. Is it damaging for a kid to be forced into a situation that they are not ready for or don't feel comfortable in? absolutely. But in general I think 3 and 4 year olds tend to flourish in an environment that isn't mediated by mom or dad. They get to try out a whole new set of social skills and boundaries.


----------



## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

They crave sugar too. Doesn't mean that we should give it to them.


----------



## sarahmae1 (Nov 11, 2002)

I've worked it two daycare centers, one home-daycare, and as a nanny. The first daycare center I worked at was really great! There were certified teachers (and an assitant) in each room for the majority of the day and the kids did lots of activities. We took them outside twice per day when the weather permitted. All the rooms were clean, toys were cleaned and sanitized, etc. It was run by a local 'mom and pop' and sadly it closed.

The other daycare center I worked at (in a different state) was not good at all... the workers were not certified teachers, were unfriendly, they had a high turnover rate, and parent communication was not good either. It was not a clean or well run as the other center I had worked at, and didn't have any educational activities. The workers did not interact as 'lovingly' with the children as the ones at the other center did.

So I think it just depends upon the daycare, and the people who work there, etc.
(I'm a sahm now.)


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I worked in day care centers in the 1980s. I hope things have changed since then.

My step daughter works in a lrge chain center. She tells me HORRIFYING stories.

In the 80s, the ratio was 17 two year olds to one caregiver. (I swear) BUT, we were ALWAYS at 20/1. Often times it was 40/1 if the other teacher didn't show up.
The toddler room was usually 20/1 all the time.

We would leave a sick child in a small bathroom on a bed by himself with not one single adult to check on him until his parents showed up.

We cleaned EVERYTHING with diluted windheild washer fluid. No bleach.

One day, I took a toddler into the school because he was #1. outside with no adults. #2. Had fallen and OBVIOUSLY broken a leg. They MADE me lie (I quit that day) and say that he walked in front of the tire swing. The truth was, he was alone on the playground, and I found him under the 8 ft high jungle gym. He had fallen 8 feet.

We called one kid "Pervy" (pervert) to his face, he even answered to it.

We let the kids bite Kevin, because he bit everybody, and figured it was his payback.

We knew one of the kids had chicken pox, but since his Mom couldn't come get him, we let him stay, and never informed the other parents...but, when their kids got CP, we made them stay home.

I have worked in several day care centers. These and many more incidents happened at more than one day care.
__________________________________________________ _____

My step dd works at a large center. When they are waaaay overcrowded, instead of putting a teacher in that room, they move kids from room to room to make the numbers work. The younger kids who are not used to being in the older room, get eaten alive.

They like some kids, but not others.

If a child has a mild food allergy or a religious need to avoid a certain food, they will SAY they will honor that, but don't.

The teachers write up a "What your child did today sheet for all the kids, but they don't actually do those things. They just write it down.

She says the kids in this school are all uncivilized monsters and can't imagine why parents would put a "nice" child there.

This is a well known national chain.

Keep in mind that in Arizona, we are 50th out of 50 for childcare. So, I imagine that it is better in some states.

__________________________________________

I have my own daycare now. And of course it is wonderful!


----------



## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

I'm not a former daycare provider but this thread is fascinating to me. I don't know anyone IRL who uses FT daycare for their kids but online (on another, more mainstream, board I post on) it is very very common.

I always find it strange that moms of 1-year-olds or younger will refer to the daycare staff as "teachers". What are they "teaching" little babies? It seems like some of the moms are very proud of how enriching the environment is at daycare, but with little babies, isn't one-on-one loving care more important than educational toys?

I just don't understand why daycares are set up the way they are given everything we know about child development. Clearly children need one or two caregivers who don't change when the child turns one and has to leave the "infant room". Etc. It makes me physically ill to think of a little baby crying all day for his mama, too, and that the staff simply does not have enough arms to hold the babies all day.









A friend of mine and I were talking about how with a 1:4 ratio, the kids who demand attention (the more high-needs babies) are the ones who are going to get it, because they can't all get the attention they need. The quieter, more placid kids are going to be basically experiencing benign neglect - if they don't complain, they are the ones that will be left in the swing the longest, etc. This seems so sad.









Anyway, clearly quality childcare should be an option for everyone who needs it. I agree that in-home daycare is probably the best solution in most cases. A friend of mine from childhood whose parents were both professionals spent most of her non-school time with her babysitter at the babysitter's home. This woman, a grandmotherly Mexican immigrant who barely spoke English, cared for my friend, her sister and a couple of other kids from infancy on. They are all adults now and she is like a grandma (or a second mom) to them - I went to a barbeque at her parents' house and Mrs. Rodriguez was there - she is part of the family. In my opinion, this is ideal.

I am just so, so glad that I can stay home with Nora. Even if it were family watching her I would just be heartsick to leave her all day. I know that it is not a "choice" for most families in this country, and that's why we really need to reform daycare IMO. The large centers (just like the huge public schools) are not serving the children's interest IMO - with a few exceptions, of course, like the one that was mentioned by a PP.


----------



## FrozenMommy (May 25, 2006)

I would definitely agree that although there are exceptions, overall daycares (not homecares) are pretty horrible. In my personal situation, I chose NOT to have kids for years past when I really wanted to because we weren't at a point where I could quit working and the only daycare option was not only incredibly expensive but too frightening to contemplate; unregulated, unsupervised teenagers left alone with a roomful of infants, children running pellmell with little to no supervision, no security to make sure it was the RIGHT people picking up the RIGHT kids (and not a stranger walking out with someone's child!). I struggled for years to find a way to work from home profitably (and not a distributorship!! Please don't send me emails about Herbalife or Pampered Chef







). Thankfully my husband was very supportive and we are right now trying to get pregnant, and we know that when I am close to giving birth I will be leaving my job.
Homecares can be horrible too of course, I remember some of the things that happened to ME when I was at the babysitter's as a child that were anywhere from bad to downright terrible.

On another topic, after being a public school teacher I am starting to feel the same way about publice school! I have just about decided to homeschool when my kids get to that age.

Good luck!!!!


----------



## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

FrozenMommy, it is amazing how one's perspective changes when contemplating parenthood. I have found that many if not most of my assumptions about what is "good" for kids have been turned upside down!


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrozenMommy*
I remember some of the things that happened to ME when I was at the babysitter's as a child that were anywhere from bad to downright terrible.

I have been doing in home day care for 20 years. I pray that no one ever looks back on their years with me and has those feelings. But in all honesty, I know of at least two kids that I did not treat fairly. It makes me sick to look back on my own younger, pre-child years and remember how I treated these kids.

I know I am a better provider now....but this still haunts me.


----------



## CinnamonDeMarco (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
I have been doing in home day care for 20 years. I pray that no one ever looks back on their years with me and has those feelings. But in all honesty, I know of at least two kids that I did not treat fairly. It makes me sick to look back on my own younger, pre-child years and remember how I treated these kids.

I know I am a better provider now....but this still haunts me.

Oh this brought tears to my eyes.

I feel bad about this - There were lots of times I witnessed things that were awful in one of the day cares I worked at. I should have stood up for the kids and I didn't. If I was in that situation now I would do something. At the time I just hoped someone else would take care of it. I used to fantasize the state would shut it down. That hasn't happened yet.









That was off topic. I must remind myself, and others
This thread is for former day care workers who think day care is good for kids.

I wondered if I'd get any responses.


----------



## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife*
I think it depends on the daycare. I worked in a wonderful Montessori Early Head start program (same as head start but for 0-3). I think it was definitely good for the children that attended and compared to traditional childcare... it was a lot better. But even being the way it was, I still think my children are better off at home with me.

Oh and after working at an afterschool program for 2 yrs at a public elem school... I wouldn't send my kids to one of those (although I'm sure the quality varies).

Isn't Montessorri about children being independant? how does that equate for babis? I;'m sorry, but it always irks me when daycares call themselves Montessorri and they take babies...


----------



## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swebster*
I have found the opposite to be true...my experience with the 3/4 crowd has convinced me that they _crave_ groupthink. Is this always the case? well, of course not. Is it damaging for a kid to be forced into a situation that they are not ready for or don't feel comfortable in? absolutely. But in general I think 3 and 4 year olds tend to flourish in an environment that isn't mediated by mom or dad. They get to try out a whole new set of social skills and boundaries.

are you a daycare provider or preschool teacher?


----------



## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nora'sMama*
I always find it strange that moms of 1-year-olds or younger will refer to the daycare staff as "teachers". What are they "teaching" little babies? .

Yes, I agree. Also, people calling daycare "schoool". I once was in a conversation iwth a woman who said her sone had been going to "school" since he was 1 month old!!!! I think sometimes these people aer trying to assuage their guilt by making it seem "Education" therefore beneficial to the baby.


----------



## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CinnamonDeMarco*
The store is open so people can shop there. If no one shops on Sundays the store will start closing on Sundays. What if I am that one person who made it profitable for the store to stay open on Sunday? I suppose a store like Wal-Mart might still stay open, even though no one shopped. I'm sure they would schedule a lot less cashiers though.

One nurse in the hospital works 7a.m.-7p.m. every weekend. I told her that it must be frustrating to miss the kids every weekend. Can you request a weekend off? I asked. She surprised me and said her kids "..are too troublesome. I don't want to be with them."







I guess not everybody wants to be with their kids. I'd like to think the avarage woman would prefer to work while her kids are in school and be able to spend weekends with their kids.

I know I would have my panties in a bunch if I had to work weekends, while my school aged kids were without Mama. I'd like to spend at least one day with them a week. I used to be sad when I had to miss family picnics and parties to work my low paying day-care center job. I'd have a weekday off, so it wasn't even like I was making overtime. Requesting every weekend off was considered not being a team player. I'm sure it's the same deal while working at the supermarket.

There are a couple of stores in our area that are closed on Sundays to "allow for family time and worship"
























Hobby Lobby is one of them. I applaud that they are willing to forgo sales on what is a busy day to allow family time. Also, car dealers are required by law to close on sundays.

I agree with you CDM!


----------



## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ToniaStarr*
I can see how some women are just not meant to be SAHM and in those cases thank god there are peopel out there willing to help. I do not mean this against working moms, just a personal example from my life.

I don't have daycare experience to share, but this reminded me of a SAHM mom I know. She's the sister of a co-worker of mine. She is about the WORST parent it is possible to be without actually being abusive. She ignores her daughter completely except to yell at her. The kid has her own DVD and TV player in her room and watches Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings all day long, with virtually no human interaction.

Since I met her, she's been in Head Start, and I hear she is thriving ... but when she started there, and they tried to test her for intelligence/educational level, they found her untestable because *at 4 years old she did not know how to talk!* And yet she was clearly a healthy, bright kid, eager to interact with people, physically fit, able to manipulate toys with her hands, like a normal 4-year-old. But she got so little interaction with her mom, she had actually developed her own language. When I met her, she hid her face in her aunts shoulder for half an hour, then cheerfully ran over to the toys and babbled like a baby (I caught the word "toys!", lol), then suddenly climbed into my lap for cuddling as soon as she'd gotten used to me.

For kids with good moms, daycare is less than ideal ... but for kids like this one, I have to think that any kind of decent care outside the home would be an improvement.


----------



## jkpmomtoboys (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *numom499*
There are a couple of stores in our area that are closed on Sundays to "allow for family time and worship"
























Hobby Lobby is one of them. I applaud that they are willing to forgo sales on what is a busy day to allow family time. Also, car dealers are required by law to close on sundays.

I agree with you CDM!

Are they talking about their own "family time and worship" or those of their customers?

I think the nature of Blue Laws is pretty Puritanical; I'm surprised they're still in place anywhere.


----------



## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *numom499*
Hobby Lobby is one of them. I applaud that they are willing to forgo sales on what is a busy day to allow family time. Also, car dealers are required by law to close on sundays.

I have always been bothered by Hobby Lobby's policy on Sundays. To me, they're sending the message that they don't care about working moms' business. SAHMs can go shopping anytime - it's working parents who need to go on the weekends.

Also, of course, Sunday is only "worship time" if you're a Christian.


----------



## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

well..they are open on saturdays as well..


----------



## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jkpmomtoboys*
Are they talking about their own "family time and worship" or those of their customers?

I think the nature of Blue Laws is pretty Puritanical; I'm surprised they're still in place anywhere.


um, the emplioyees I thought.


----------



## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Chik Fil A is closed on Sundays too...

but back to the original topic. I have worked downstairs from a daycare center for the past five years. There are some people that work there that like the kids and are ok, but even they get burnt out and frustrated. I've heard the kids threatened with time-outs for stupid things like not getting in line fast enough. The four year old teacher talks to the kids in a degrading way. Last time I saw the toddler "class," they were over ratio. The only one I've never seen yell at the kids is the kindergarten age guy. This is a large daycare that also has a gym and fitness center.


----------



## swebster (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *numom499*
are you a daycare provider or preschool teacher?

You can read my post on page one numom499









As for the comment about craving sugar...well, I don't agree with that either







sugar cravings usually develop because of other dietary imbalances.

I think that the attitude that this statement expresses can be twisted in all sorts of ways to justify all sorts of parenting philosophies, especially non-AP practices that assume that children couldn't possibly know what they need or want and must be taught to conform to adult expectations. I know that this is a little OT but I think that it's important to keep in mind.

ETA: ha
I also agree with the "school" comment. It's pretty silly. However, the time I spent working in a kindergarten class at a public school made me think the same think...they call this "learning"??


----------



## momsgotmilk4two (Sep 24, 2002)

I worked in a daycare and don't think it was bad for the kids there. I won't say it is better than having a sahp, meaning I wouldn't put my kids in daycare if I didn't need to work, but it was a good experience for the kids. We had fun with them, they were comfortable and happy and even loved there







I am a sahm now, but not because I thought daycare was horrible, simply because this is what I want to be doing and we are not under financial strain.


----------



## momsgotmilk4two (Sep 24, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel*
I have always been bothered by Hobby Lobby's policy on Sundays. To me, they're sending the message that they don't care about working moms' business. SAHMs can go shopping anytime - it's working parents who need to go on the weekends.

Also, of course, Sunday is only "worship time" if you're a Christian.

I think that a huge stretch. Plenty of working moms go shopping after work or on thier lunch break. It is harder for me to go shopping than dh and he works. Taking 3 kids into a store is much harder than running out on his lunch break. Plus, you have Saturday. And some people are off on weekdays and work weekends. To say that their policy is a slam on working moms is a huge reach.


----------



## SiValleySteph (Feb 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *numom499*
Yes, I agree. Also, people calling daycare "schoool". I once was in a conversation iwth a woman who said her sone had been going to "school" since he was 1 month old!!!! I think sometimes these people aer trying to assuage their guilt by making it seem "Education" therefore beneficial to the baby.

I call my son's daycare "school" and his careproviders "teachers." I also call it daycare and childcare center, etc.









I'm not calling it a "school" because of some sort of deep guilt about working. It just feels like he is getting ready to go to school in the morning, with his lunchbox and his gear, so we call it "school." I do feel like it is educational because, at this point, everything in life is educational for him!


----------



## Kleine Hexe (Dec 2, 2001)

I think it really depends on your child and the daycare. My DS#1 would not do well at all in daycare, but my DS#2 would proably like it.


----------



## CinnamonDeMarco (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kleine Hexe*
I think it really depends on your child and the daycare. My DS#1 would not do well at all in daycare, but my DS#2 would proably like it.

Did you work in day care?


----------



## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

I didn't have time to read all of the other posts but this what I think:

The time I spent working (5 yrs) in a daycare was hugely benificial to me as a future parent. I have some much more of a handle on earlychildhood behavior that I would have had I not had that experience.

That being said...the experience very much influienced my descision to not send my dd's to daycare and to ultimately HS them. I know that there are somevery few excelent daycare-ps programs out there but the one I worked at was more of an average typical center. I don't think it was a bad place but not outstanding either.

Don't get me wrong we tried really really hard to do our absolute best to give eachand every child the best possible love and care but we just didn't have enough training/pay/benifits to keep good staff. It's a dead end job and all but the very commited teachers burn out very quickly.

I was lucky to work with a few coworkers who were naturaly gifted with children and this gave me what I needed to keep going as long as I did but often we were never able to fully meet the needs of individual children. It was really hard because we had to pose so many artificial constraints on children's behavior just to do crowd control. I tried and tried to love each child as I would my own but as time passed I got jaded by the repetition of days and it became harder and harder to stay inspired and focused. As a parent you get to grow with your child and each developmental stage is fresh and interesting. As a preschool teacher you get stuck in a "Groundhog Day" (remember that movie?) scenario where the children move on but you don't.

So anyway...I think that my experiences as a teacher are fairly typical and I just don't want my childdren to spend their days with folks who don't love them to the degree that my dh and I do.


----------



## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CinnamonDeMarco*

I'm not sure what people mean by saying, "It's not good, but not damaging."


I guess that's where I stand...I can't imagine how anyone would argue that children are _better off_ in daycare than they would be at home with an actively involved parent. I think that children aren't harmed by long hours in daycare if the DCP can provide a high degree of love and attachment that is equal or better than the child gets at home.

I think that in _good_ centers the children enjoy themselves and are so busy having fun that they don't miss their parents or notice the lesser degree of emotional commitment from thier teachers. In the _very best care_ there is a strong attachment between children and their providers and children benefit for the emotional bond as they would from being cared for by someone in their extended family.


----------



## numom499 (Jun 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natashaccat*
I guess that's where I stand...I can't imagine how anyone would argue that children are _better off_ in daycare than they would be at home with an actively involved parent. I think that children aren't harmed by long hours in daycare if the DCP can provide a high degree of love and attachment that is equal or better than the child gets at home.
.

people, including the US government, argue just that all the time. Even some mommys here at MDC


----------



## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

Oddly enough, I think children with strong parental attachments can be trusted more than ones with strong peer group attachments and peer group attachment is something that should happen under direct parental supervision. I don't see any reason at all 3 and 4yos need to be developing personalities that are based in interacting primarily with other 3 and 4yos, except to make them more easily manipulable as adults.


----------



## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Quote:

Also, people calling daycare "schoool". I once was in a conversation iwth a woman who said her sone had been going to "school" since he was 1 month old!!!! I think sometimes these people aer trying to assuage their guilt by making it seem "Education" therefore beneficial to the baby.
And I think people who don't use child care state this very opinion, which I've heard numerous times before, as a way to subtly sneer at those who use child care. The fact is, the culture of many child care programs is to refer to themselves as a "school" and to the workers as "teachers." A big reason for this is to reinforce the professionalism of the employees in considering their role as more than simply babysitting. I really don't see how this can be a bad thing. Many mothers on this site refer to themselves as their child's "teachers" even when the child is very very young, and even if the mother is not a certified or credentialed "teacher."

I often think that if mothers in general (and SAHMs in particular) really want the respect from society that they say they do for the role they perform in caring for their children, they need to stop denigrating the job of caring for small children when it is done in a professional role.


----------



## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

No one is denigrating the work; we're mocking the use of grandiose language. It's like calling garbagemen "sanitation engineers" - it's relevatory of your own discomfort with what you actually do to need to give it a professional title. Not all jobs, even important ones, are professions. The professions are competitive, peer-reviewed, and hold their members to high standards which are determined by outstanding members of the profession. The problem is that people don't respect plain work, not laughing at how people who don't respect themselves try to acquire the mana of the professions by just calling themselves something different. I worked in childcare for a long time; I value childcare; I don't call it education.


----------



## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday*
I often think that if mothers in general (and SAHMs in particular) really want the respect from society that they say they do for the role they perform in caring for their children, they need to stop denigrating the job of caring for small children when it is done in a professional role.

WOW...really well said! That's what I've been thinking but couldn't find the words.


----------



## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday*
And I think people who don't use child care state this very opinion, which I've heard numerous times before, as a way to subtly sneer at those who use child care. The fact is, the culture of many child care programs is to refer to themselves as a "school" and to the workers as "teachers." A big reason for this is to reinforce the professionalism of the employees in considering their role as more than simply babysitting. I really don't see how this can be a bad thing. Many mothers on this site refer to themselves as their child's "teachers" even when the child is very very young, and even if the mother is not a certified or credentialed "teacher."

I often think that if mothers in general (and SAHMs in particular) really want the respect from society that they say they do for the role they perform in caring for their children, they need to stop denigrating the job of caring for small children when it is done in a professional role.

Yeah I agree with you there...one of the biggest struggles DCP face is lack of respect, not nescessarily from parents but from socitey in general. Their work isn't valued and they don't get appropriate training because there is no funding, I worked with teachers with master's degrees who were being paid only a few $ more than their HS student co-workers. It makes staff turnover really high and the children suffer. How do you explain to a 1 yo that the person he has spent everyday of the past six months has moved on to another job.

I think that the GOVT really needs to step up to the plate here in some way to help fund DCP training such that these caregivers can get the training and professional respect that they deserve.


----------



## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urklemama*
The professions are competitive, peer-reviewed, and hold their members to high standards which are determined by outstanding members of the profession.

Funny, this describes the accredited child care center that I'm affiliated with. The teachers who work there are trained child care professionals.

Don't like child/day care centers??? Don't use them, but why the need to denigrate the entire profession???


----------



## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urklemama*
I value childcare; I don't call it education.

I disagree with you there, I think that any distinction between the two is an artificially imposed social distinction that doesn't truely reflect how children learn. Is a child who learns to read by being read to by his parents any less educated than the child who learns via phonics drills in a "school"?


----------



## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natashaccat*
I think that the GOVT really needs to step up to the plate here in some way to help fund DCP training such that these caregivers can get the training and professional respect that they deserve.

Well I disagree with you there--I think the govt needs to step up and mandate a minimum of one year paid maternity leave for mothers. I really don't agree with institutional care at all for babies of an age where they should still be nursing and still getting 1:1 care. And I don't really agree with dads working two jobs either, although I liked that post! Honestly, the US just needs to do what every other civilized country does and support mamas being with their babies.


----------



## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday*
Well I disagree with you there--I think the govt needs to step up and mandate a minimum of one year paid maternity leave for mothers. I really don't agree with institutional care at all for babies of an age where they should still be nursing and still getting 1:1 care. And I don't really agree with dads working two jobs either, although I liked that post! Honestly, the US just needs to do what every other civilized country does and support mamas being with their babies.

Of course that would be a better solution...but that seems so unlikely it didn't even occur to me as a possiblility.


----------



## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natashaccat*
Of course that would be a better solution...but that seems so unlikely it didn't even occur to me as a possiblility.

Yeah, I know







. I just cringe whenever I hear about activism or legislation to better fund childcare (or legislation to promote moms pumping in the workplace, for that matter) because I think the more effort/funding that goes into formally removing the obstacles of mamas of young babies being at work, the harder it makes it for a mama to stay with her baby.

I forget where I read this...but in some of the European countries where governments fund universal preschool from a very early age, it is considered VERY unusual and really kind of socially unacceptable for a woman to SAH past the officially sanctioned maternity leave. So the moms are able to stay home until kids are one or two (good) but then there is a lot of pressure to return to the workforce (not so great IMO). Combine that particular dynamic with the fact that in the US 6-12 weeks leave (usually unpaid!) is considered more than sufficient, in fact a GENEROUS amount of leave, and wow! I could really see people facing unbelievable economic and social pressures to get back to work outside the home even when their infants are still VERY young.


----------



## CinnamonDeMarco (Nov 4, 2005)

These are great topics for other threads.


----------



## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday*
I just cringe whenever I hear about activism or legislation to better fund childcare (or legislation to promote moms pumping in the workplace, for that matter) because I think the more effort/funding that goes into formally removing the obstacles of mamas of young babies being at work, the harder it makes it for a mama to stay with her baby.











This is THE reason I didn't vote for Dean during the Democratic primaries.


----------



## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RedWine*
This is THE reason I didn't vote for Dean during the Democratic primaries.

I confess I don't really know what Dean's position was on the issue, seeing as how I was in working/pumping/night-nursing hell for all of 2004, and didn't have a functioning brain cell left over to pay much attention to the presidential campaigns. That experience is largely what shaped my opinion that mamas and babies needs are not adequately met merely by the existence of "high quality child care" and workplace lactation programs. I had a SAHD caring for our child and a private office where I could pump at my leisure. It still sucked horrifically.


----------



## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ibex67*
My aunt and uncle run a chain of very high end day care and after school care centers. .

Gosh, I hope that wasn't the chain that I worked for. I worked in several of their centers across Northern Virginia and, at every center, both staff and directors blatantly made fun of children who were different. There was *absolute* structure from age 3 and up, no room for individual expression or developmental differences. There was frequently semi-subtle racism, but at one center in particular one of the teacher made very blatant remarks about those "annoying little black monkeys". Her daughter was the director. It was miserable. Yes, there were kids who were dropped off at 6:30 and picked up at 6:30, but what happened within those hours was inexcusable. There were good teachers, but they seldom lasted very long because it was so depressing and any attempt toward change was met with derision. It's one of the largest, most popular chains in this area and, to me, represents the worst of day care. Any possible good was completely outweighed by the overwhelming negatives.


----------



## aprons_and_acorns (Sep 28, 2004)

I haven't read this whole thread yet, but I wanted to pipe in that IME
having a caregiver who is always sober and a day that is based on predictable routines is a benefit for some children.


----------



## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

I think that the GOVT really needs to step up to the plate here in some way to help fund DCP training such that these caregivers can get the training and professional respect that they deserve.
Honestly, I think that the childcare industry is what needs to step up and set the bar if anything is really going to happen. Competition breeds success and better work, not government regulations. I see government regulations get broken at the YMCA all the time. Now if parents had the daycares competing for their business, that would improve them.


----------



## kewb (May 13, 2005)

I have been reading this thread with interest. I have never worked in a daycare. My children attended a daycare center. My dd is completing her Kindergarten year there next month.

I did my research. Am an involved parent. The center they attended has very low staff turn-over. Both children had the same teachers through their years there. I talk to my kids. Once they are talking they can tell you about their day and you can address what they tell you.

I call it a school and the staff teachers. Not because I am trying to assauge my underlying guilt but because that is how they refer to themselves. The infants are getting an education. The education they would be getting at home. They are learning to sit, pull up, get a toy, babble & coo. Instead of doing it with a parent they are doing it with the day care provider.

I have no doubt that some days-staff members have bad days. Just like a parent does. Some staff stink at their job. Unlike mom -they can be fired. Bad mom gets to stick around until the child is grown.

A good center is neither bad nor good in a general sweeping sort of way. It fulfills a need. In the center there will be good providers and bad providers-just like in a family. I know I have relatives I wouldn't leave my children with.

Debating if it is "Good for children" is good for no one. Do your research and make an educated decision. Be involved. As in all things, parental involvement is the key.


----------



## la mamita (Apr 10, 2005)

...


----------



## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

I'm not exactly sure why I opened this thread, but here I am







My son is in daycare 4 days a week now and it breaks my heart. I was a SAHM until a divorce forced me to have to put DS in some sort of alternate care so I could work. He goes to a daycare center and although I'd like to believe it is great and loving, this thread makes me wonder just how great it really is.

I wish there were another way. I wish I did not have to send my baby to daycare each day.


----------



## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urklemama*
No one is denigrating the work; we're mocking the use of grandiose language.

I actually think it's simpler language.







My son goes to a Reggio-inspired early learning center (he started going - his first "school" experience ever - this past October, right before he turned 5). We call it school even though it's not technically a school. Why? Because "early learning center" or "that place I go to while mom goes to class" is, in the case of the former, a little cumbersome and, in the case of the latter, pretty non-descript. "School" and "teacher" are easy terms for little ones to recognize and eventually use. And it's not as though they have any real investment or preconceived ideas about those terms, so what's the harm?

Other than that, I pretty much agree with everything that wednesday has said on this thread. *Especially* this:

Quote:

I often think that if mothers in general (and SAHMs in particular) really want the respect from society that they say they do for the role they perform in caring for their children, they need to stop denigrating the job of caring for small children when it is done in a professional role.
and this:

Quote:

I think the govt needs to step up and mandate a minimum of one year paid maternity leave for mothers. I really don't agree with institutional care at all for babies of an age where they should still be nursing and still getting 1:1 care. And I don't really agree with dads working two jobs either, although I liked that post! Honestly, the US just needs to do what every other civilized country does and support mamas being with their babies.

















Ideally, we shouldn't even have to have this discussion. It's disgusting the sorts of situations that women (predominately women, but men, too) and their children are forced into in this country. "Family values" my big, shiny rear.







:


----------



## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

I don't ever think it's better to choose daycare if you have the ability to care for your children yourself. I've worked in "wonderful" daycares, but I don't think they're ever better than the job a parent can do at home. I think a good family daycare would be better than a day care center. But I would have to have a darn good reason to put my child in daycare to stop being a SAHM.

Now a part-time preschool program is another thing entirely. And sometimes people send their children to a daycare center part-time to get a similar experience. Some centers can provide this, some can't.

- Krista


----------



## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

I feel like I have written this same post a million times.

I don't denigrate childcare. I was a nanny for ten years and I worked in two childcare centers for pay and about a half dozen volunteer. I am fortunate to be able to stay home - although since I homeschool children that aren't mine I am basically a WAHM - but I have lots of friends who use childcare and I don't think they're bad.

It's ridiculous to compare the training that even the most expensively trained childcare provider gets with the professions. It's not law. You're not practicing medicine. Seriously, do you all have any grasp on what professional training is actually like? Writing a MA thesis in ECE is not like taking the bar. Getting a PhD in ECE is not like residency.

Childcare is not only not professional, it's not even very highly skilled. I've done it, I'm not ashamed of it. I did a good job and I am proud. You have to feel really low about what you do to insist that "teaching" preschool is the equivalent to surgery.

Interestingly, the most educated and wealthiest mothers, who have the most options, do NOT choose highly trained "professionals" for childcare. They choose Latin American or Caribbean immigrants, with absolutely not formal training, who love children. And they're not hiring immigrants because they can pay them less - that's a myth, at least in domestic service. Everyone works under the table and everyone makes around the same, citizen of not.


----------



## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Well if it makes you feel any better, my son's teacher when he was in the 1-year-old class DID have a master's degree in ECE. All the other teachers at his preschool have a minimum of 4-year degrees. I know that is not necessarily the norm for all child care facilities, but when I talk about my son's "teachers," I am not just inflating their education/credentials for the sake of patting my own back.

However--the whole point of my post was not whether or not the people filling those roles are entitled to a particular title or not, BUT that in my experience is't not the PARENTS who are assigning the titles. A PP had alleged that parents use the terms school/teacher because they feel guilty about using child care. My only point was that from what I've seen, the school/teachers nomenclature is originating from the child care facility itself.


----------



## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

Quote:

Seriously, do you all have any grasp on what professional training is actually like? Writing a MA thesis in ECE is not like taking the bar. Getting a PhD in ECE is not like residency.
I just re-read your post and now I realize I have no idea what you're getting at. So you think teachers in elementary and secondary level shouldn't call themselves "teachers" either? Or no teacher should call themselves a "professional"?

My husband is an attorney so I do have SOME idea what it takes to earn that credential. I am sure he would tell you it does not offend him if someone else refers to themselves as a "professional."

Quote:

You have to feel really low about what you do to insist that "teaching" preschool is the equivalent to surgery.
What on earth are you talking about? I re-read the entire thread and I don't see any reference to that.


----------



## m9m9m9 (Jun 13, 2005)

Ok, I didn't read through the whole thread yet ........

I worked in 3 daycare centers and all 3 were in my opinion very good and I have tried for 2 years to get my DD in one of them (I am not an employee of their org so I am at the bottom of the wait list).

I interviewd at tons of centers that were horrible. I hate to generalize but they were the bigger chain type centers that usually we not ones I wanted to work at. One center was willing to hire me after a 15 minute interview ~ they basically said -"we are desparate, can you start tomorrow?"

I think it would suprise a lot of people to know to be a "teacher" in daycare in the states/areas I worked in required a college degree or several years of experience plus a CDA (which is a child care credential). This was mandated by law. In fact, my college degree was not in education or any related subject so I had to take 6 additional college courses to qualify to "teach".

I taught in a 4 year old room and it was great! I really got to know the kids and I recently saw the parents of one of the kids (its been almost 10 years!) and we remembered each other and I got to see pics of their darling DD almost all grown up. We didn't have a lot of discipline issues in our class and the kids were always engaged in some kind of activity. We worked with the Kindergarten teacher next door alot to do activities. In that center, the majority of the teachers had been there for several years as had the subs. There was very low turnover because the teachers were happy with the environment and that in turn affected both the children and the parents. It was a smaller private preschool/daycare.

The next center I was the infant "teacher". There were 9 infants in the room but it was very rare to actually have all 9 babies in on one day ~ some were part time, some were out sick, some were on vacation. There were 2 teachers and we had a third helper come in the afternoon. Working here was so much fun! Its hard to understand with out seeing it first hand but yes, the babies we had did have fun and "played" with each other. Ok, of course they didn't play as we think of with older kids but here is an example - we had this little built in slope with stairs that went up it. So one baby would get old enough to figure out how to get up the stairs and then come down the slope. Then a couple of the other babies would watch and start to try and imitate and then they would be following each other up the stairs and down the slope! It was so cute to watch! We had a huge mat that covered most of the floor and we usually sat on the floor to play with the babies. There was a separate sleeping area, full kitchen, and changing area.

The last center I worked out was with mixed ages. Loved working there also. I worked with kids 18 mths - 3 years on a daily basis. Sometimes there were older kids but rarely. Even if we only had 8 kids on a given day, we had 3 teachers available. We had a built in treehouse in the center and the kids loved it.

One thing I learned is that some children are better off in daycare. Their parents, either mom or dad or both, couldn't do the 8-10 hours of care alone for their child every day. I don't think this is bad or wrong, I think its just the way it is. Also, I learned that most people undervalue daycare workers. The majority of teachers and aids I worked with all had college degrees some had master's degrees. This is a legitamite career choice.

All in all, working in daycare was the best job(s) I ever had and if it didn't pay so low, I would still be working in one. There are good centers where children have fun and learn and the teachers and adults are interested and engaging.

One observation ~ I always find it interesting in the area I live in that many SAHMs say they would never use daycare yet they shuttle their child to various classes several mornings and afternoons a week essentially paying someone else to interact and "teach" their child and for the child to "socialize". At the same time, they say that socialization at a young age is not important and they are their child's teacher. I can't count how many times I have heard SAHMs say "I am so busy! We have kindermusic on Monday than ballet in the afternoon, Gymboree on Tuesday, etc and so forth" Sure she is busy - busy making sure she doesn't have to spend time at home with her child. Of course, this is the kind of SAHM who will announce she would never put her child in daycare, etc and so forth. I am not saying that this is how all SAHMs are in anyway and the affluence of the area I live in no doubt creates the ability to go to all those classes but it would be nice to meet a SAHM in my area who says "we are going to be busy today - we are going to hang out in the backyard and garden, chase bugs, look at nature, etc".


----------



## la mamita (Apr 10, 2005)

...


----------



## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CinnamonDeMarco*
The store is open so people can shop there. If no one shops on Sundays the store will start closing on Sundays. What if I am that one person who made it profitable for the store to stay open on Sunday? I suppose a store like Wal-Mart might still stay open, even though no one shopped. I'm sure they would schedule a lot less cashiers though.

I would think that if stores had less hours, they would hire less people, meaning more and more people would be out of work. Also sometime both parents need to work. There were times when both DH and I needed to work (like we both had low paying jobs) and I had to work weekends. Now what would have happened if there were no weekend or night jobs available? Then we probably would have been FORCED to use daycare so I could find any job that I could.

Thankfully that never had been the case, because it would have killed me to have to put my son in daycare. It might be the right choice for some, but it's not the right choice for my family.


----------



## liberal_chick (May 22, 2005)

I haven't read through the entire thread, but would like to chime in. I worked at a day care through college (I was pursing my degree in education) and it was wonderful. The other teachers there (most had a BSE, those that didn't had a CDA or were seeking education degrees) were very wonderful and loving. We really loved the kids like they were ours and our environment was one of love and respect. I had a few kids whos parents couldn't afford to clothe them for the winter and the other teachers and I pulled our money and bought the kids some warm clothes. I would trust those women with my child any day of the week and would have no problem sending him to a day care center like the one I worked in.

I don't think it is bad for kids to stay home with mom or dad, but I also don't think its detrimental or bad for them to go to day care. In a center like ours, all you'd be doing is adding to the number of people in your child's life that loved them. That's never bad.

M.


----------



## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *m9m9m9*
One observation ~ I always find it interesting in the area I live in that many SAHMs say they would never use daycare yet they shuttle their child to various classes several mornings and afternoons a week essentially paying someone else to interact and "teach" their child and for the child to "socialize". At the same time, they say that socialization at a young age is not important and they are their child's teacher. I can't count how many times I have heard SAHMs say "I am so busy! We have kindermusic on Monday than ballet in the afternoon, Gymboree on Tuesday, etc and so forth" Sure she is busy - busy making sure she doesn't have to spend time at home with her child.

Wow, what a judgmental paragraph.

Although I'm not really sure what your point is.

Are you saying that a mother going to programs with her child is the same as daycare? That seems to be what you're saying. I'm not sure why it would be a bad thing for a SAHM to want to go out with her kids some, and find some programs she thinks would enrich them, so maybe you can clarify what you're implying there.


----------



## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*
Wow, what a judgmental paragraph.

Although I'm not really sure what your point is.

Are you saying that a mother going to programs with her child is the same as daycare? That seems to be what you're saying. I'm not sure why it would be a bad thing for a SAHM to want to go out with her kids some, and find some programs she thinks would enrich them, so maybe you can clarify what you're implying there.

ITA, wow







:


----------



## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

I *think* I understand what she was trying to say. I do know plenty of moms who have their kids so tightly scheduled that there is no time for relaxed free-play. They jump from one class to the next class to the next play group and suddenly it's time for dinner and bed and the child is exhausted. I get exhausted just listening to them. I don't think she was referring to a few classes or programs a week. At least I hope she wasn't...


----------



## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*
Wow, what a judgmental paragraph.

Although I'm not really sure what your point is.

Are you saying that a mother going to programs with her child is the same as daycare? That seems to be what you're saying. I'm not sure why it would be a bad thing for a SAHM to want to go out with her kids some, and find some programs she thinks would enrich them, so maybe you can clarify what you're implying there.

As a WOHM, I sometimes feel the same as m9m9m9. The thought that daycare is awful and being a SAHM is the way to go is prevalent everywhere. Being a SAHM is not for everyone.

The point I think she was trying to make is that quite a few SAHMs have this arrogance like "well, I'd NEVER put my kid in daycare" and one of the reasons often cited is because they, the mother, wants to spend time with their child. But then that very same mother overschedules their kids to the point that they _don't_ really spend time with them. There's notion that only SAHMs spend meaningful, quality time with their children but the irony is that some of these mothers spend far less meaningful, quality time with their children than their WOHM counterparts.


----------



## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazydiamond*
The point I think she was trying to make is that quite a few SAHMs have this arrogance like "well, I'd NEVER put my kid in daycare" and one of the reasons often cited is because they, the mother, wants to spend time with their child. But then that very same mother overschedules their kids to the point that they _don't_ really spend time with them. There's notion that only SAHMs spend meaningful, quality time with their children but the irony is that some of these mothers spend far less meaningful, quality time with their children than their WOHM counterparts.

I understand what you're saying and have definitely seen that. Maybe what's being missed, though, is that oftentimes SAHMs will do this because of pressure based on the highly vocalized assumption that their kids are being raised as social pariahs, deprived of the plethora of rich experiences that daycare kids are having. It's like a "shame on you for being so selfish to keep your kids home with you!" mentality that can really seep in before you know it. I know that's why a lot of people around here send their children to pre-school at 2 and 3 - because everyone tells them that if they don't, their child is going to be lacking.


----------



## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5*
Honestly, I think that the childcare industry is what needs to step up and set the bar if anything is really going to happen. Competition breeds success and better work, not government regulations. I see government regulations get broken at the YMCA all the time. Now if parents had the daycares competing for their business, that would improve them.

The problem is is that there is no money to improve services, parents can only pay so much... I don't know about some of the big child care chains but the ones that I worked at were non profits and often barely scraping by. They are stuck in a no-win situation, they can't pay trained teachers w/o upping classroom ratios. Then the trained teachers get burned out because they are in sub-par learning environment and leave.


----------



## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly*
I understand what you're saying and have definitely seen that. Maybe what's being missed, though, is that oftentimes SAHMs will do this because of pressure based on the highly vocalized assumption that their kids are being raised as social pariahs, deprived of the plethora of rich experiences that daycare kids are having. It's like a "shame on you for being so selfish to keep your kids home with you!" mentality that can really seep in before you know it. I know that's why a lot of people around here send their children to pre-school at 2 and 3 - because everyone tells them that if they don't, their child is going to be lacking.

I agree with what you're saying as well! I know that if I was a SAHM I'd feel pressured to do all these activities because they are "required" to raise healthy, intelligent, and social children. Of course that's not true!

I think the bottom line is that people, everywhere, have opinions. Someone, somewhere, doesn't like what you're doing. Children are incredibly adaptable. Daycare is no guarantee of failure and SAH is no guarantee of success. It comes down to spending quality time with your children and really valuing them as people. Doing that has nothing to do with whether they attend daycare or SAH.


----------



## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urklemama*
Childcare is not only not professional, it's not even very highly skilled.


Don't you think that this is a problem? I would certainly prefer to have my child being taught by a skilled teacher with a MS in ECE who feels passion for her work than by someone just looking for a paycheck. I'm not sure where you law school and your bar exam comparrison is coming from but I know that folks getting teaching degrees in early childhood education from accredited universities go through the same educational hoops and elementary and HS techers do and we don't hesitate to call them "teachers".

Sadly ECE teachers get paid a tiny fraction of the pay the their higer ED peers do so teachers with an academic foundation in early childhood learning are available only to a small number of children.


----------



## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazydiamond*
I agree with what you're saying as well! I know that if I was a SAHM I'd feel pressured to do all these activities because they are "required" to raise healthy, intelligent, and social children. Of course that's not true!

I think the bottom line is that people, everywhere, have opinions. Someone, somewhere, doesn't like what you're doing. Children are incredibly adaptable. Daycare is no guarantee of failure and SAH is no guarantee of success. It comes down to spending quality time with your children and really valuing them as people. Doing that has nothing to do with whether they attend daycare or SAH.









Absolutely!


----------



## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

urklemama said:


> You have to feel really low about what you do to insist that "teaching" preschool is the equivalent to surgery.QUOTE]
> 
> Who on earth said that???
> 
> ...


----------



## swebster (Dec 7, 2004)

Maybe this is OT...don't know. But just what exactly are we all trying to do here? raise the perfect child? does anyone really think that using/not using daycare, scheduling/not scheduling activities, etc etc etc is really the "right" way to parent? like some magic formula exists that will guarantee your child a perfectly balanced childhood and happy and fullfilling life? no anxiety, no sadness, no troubles at all? has anyone ever met an adult who fits this description?
it seems to me like that is a lot of preasure to put on a kid. after all, the mistakes my parents made(as well as all the love







) make me who I am today. and, well...I like who I am today.


----------



## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *m9m9m9*
One observation ~ I always find it interesting in the area I live in that many SAHMs say they would never use daycare yet they shuttle their child to various classes several mornings and afternoons a week essentially paying someone else to interact and "teach" their child and for the child to "socialize". At the same time, they say that socialization at a young age is not important and they are their child's teacher. I can't count how many times I have heard SAHMs say "I am so busy! We have kindermusic on Monday than ballet in the afternoon, Gymboree on Tuesday, etc and so forth" Sure she is busy - busy making sure she doesn't have to spend time at home with her child. Of course, this is the kind of SAHM who will announce she would never put her child in daycare, etc and so forth. I am not saying that this is how all SAHMs are in anyway and the affluence of the area I live in no doubt creates the ability to go to all those classes but it would be nice to meet a SAHM in my area who says "we are going to be busy today - we are going to hang out in the backyard and garden, chase bugs, look at nature, etc".

Well, maybe the people you meet think it is prestigious to announce that their child does these things. But I for one would love to have the money to join these things. I am a part-time SAHM, I work mornings, and ds spends the morning with his Papa chasing bugs, hanging out in the backyard and garden, looking at nature, etc. But I'll tell you what....After his afternoon nap if I don't get him out of the house there's trouble brewing. Also, around here these programs are interactive with their parents.
Just my two cents.


----------



## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CinnamonDeMarco*
Is there there anyone who really knows what happens in day care, and things it is great for kids?

I used to have an in-home daycare, I have also used daycares for my children/infants. I do think that if home-life is abusive/traumatizing, then yes, daycare is an awesome option.

I do know that the Daycare Industry in this country needs a serious overhaul.


----------



## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *m9m9m9*
One observation ~ I always find it interesting in the area I live in that many SAHMs say they would never use daycare yet they shuttle their child to various classes several mornings and afternoons a week essentially paying someone else to interact and "teach" their child and for the child to "socialize". At the same time, they say that socialization at a young age is not important and they are their child's teacher. I can't count how many times I have heard SAHMs say "I am so busy! We have kindermusic on Monday than ballet in the afternoon, Gymboree on Tuesday, etc and so forth" Sure she is busy - busy making sure she doesn't have to spend time at home with her child. Of course, this is the kind of SAHM who will announce she would never put her child in daycare, etc and so forth. I am not saying that this is how all SAHMs are in anyway and the affluence of the area I live in no doubt creates the ability to go to all those classes but it would be nice to meet a SAHM in my area who says "we are going to be busy today - we are going to hang out in the backyard and garden, chase bugs, look at nature, etc".

Hmmmm. I am one of those SAHMs who does outside activities with her kids almost everyday.

There is no way one or two 45 minute "classes" -- with the parent in attendance and right next to their child -- equals daycare. The parent is there to meet all needs and to teach. Kindermusic, etc. don't teach, they help the parent guide the child. The parent is still the authority figure to the child. The adult-child ratio is 1:1.

My girls and I usually spend at least 4-5 hours a day outside. We spend plenty of time watching bugs, etc. We also do one or two "classes" a day. My kids enjoy them, and so do I -- keeps the isolation bug away.


----------

