# Is it really so awful I told my DS he could grow up to be a mommy?



## hypatia (Apr 29, 2002)

When my mom was over the other day, my DS (age 3) insisted that when he grew up he was going to be a mommy. [To give you context: For a few days, DS has been telling me that he doesn't want to have any more birthdays because he doesn't want to grow up. He just wants to be three years old forever. When I talk to him more about it, he gets very teary and says that he doesn't want to grow up because he doesn't want to have to move out of our house and leave us. When he gets to this part of the story, his voice gets very quavery and teary. My DH has been living in another city and working for the past two months, and my DS is very afraid that he might get have to leave our house like his father. When we have these conversations, I tell DS that he can live in our house for as long as he wants, and we will never make him leave. But he's very, very worried. Usually, that is as far as the conversation goes, but this one time when my mom was over, DS said he was going to grow up to be a mommy.]

So when my DS told said he was going to grow up to be a mommy, I said, "Ok, you can do that," because (1) it's true and (2) I was trying to address his feelings of feeling unsafe and insecure. I think he was really trying to do was find a way to piece together a coherent story that would allow him to grow up and not be exiled from his home.

But when I said he could grow up to be a mommy, my mom said, "No he can't. You're lying to him. You need to stop that." And then my mom started trying to aggressively inculcate male/female gender distinctions into him with a bunch of aggressive questions like, "Do boy chicks grow up to be hens? No." "Do boy lions grow up to be lionesses? No.
Etc. Which was completely not what DS needed at that moment, and I should have jumped in and stopped and I regret that I didn't. He felt really upset and alienated, and confused by mom's aggressive tone

But apparently my mom is really freaked out and thinks that I am warping DS for life because I'm not shoving him as hard as I can into prescribed gender roles. I know this because she has been calling my extended family up one by one and telling them how I am warping my son.

She is citing "developmental psychology" which sounds vaguely Freudian, about the "penis phase" (?) and how I am warping him if I allow him to identify with me, his mother? According to my sister, my mother sounds genuinely upset about this stuff.

I am baffled by the strength of her reaction. Why does she care so much? She is not a religious person and does not have moral objections to homosexuality/transgender. So why is she so convinced that I'm a horrible person for letting my three-year-old entertain lots of possibilities about the world. It's true that it's unlikely that he'll grow up to be a mommy, but it's even more unlikely that he'll grow up to be president, and it wouldn't bother her one bit if he said he wanted to grow up to be president.

I feel really sad about the thought of my little boy being shoved in a gendered box, becoming ashamed of his purple parasol, hiding his feelings, pretending to be aggressive and tough. I know that's going to happen someday, and it's going to be a painful transition (because right now he so does not live up to gender norms). The last think I want to do is speed up that transition. So what if he wants to grow up to be a mommy?

I don't know how I am going to handle this. Underlying all of this is that my wish I could use my mother to babysit because she's so convenient, but that's starting to seem unlikely. DS is afraid and just wants her to leave him alone.


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## MysteryMama (Aug 11, 2006)

i agree with your mom. i don't understand how you think your son can give birth. ??? why don't you tell him he can be a daddy? im assuming that when he says he is going to be a mommy he has no intention of having his penis made into a vagina and becoming a transexual and then adopting. if that is what his intentions are, then yes, you are right to tell him that he can do that, but he can never be a mommy in the traditional sense which is what i think he probably means.


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## JanB (Mar 4, 2004)

I don't think you're a horrible person or that you're warping your son. I do, however, think that you are being less than truthful with him. The fact is, he can't grow up to be a mommy unless he has some pretty significant surgery. Men who are parents are called "daddies" and women who are parents are called "mommies". Some children have two mommies (or two daddies), but that doesn't automatically transform one of the parents into the other gender, if you follow.

I personally think that a discussion of transgender surgery at age 3 might be a bit much, but it's the only honest way to tell your son that he could grow up to be a mommy, IMHO. And he can still be a daddy with a purple parasol!


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

Here's my take on it. My three year old dd didn't want to turn 4. I said fine, you can stay three. I told people. Dd had her birthday, but she decided to stay 3.

dd has decided she will be various animals, now alive and extinct. She's travelled the world (mostly be plane and sometimes by boat) while sitting on the bed. She's taken 54 babies with her to these far away places on special sleeper planes. She's been a mermaid and a firefighter and a vet and a midwife and a birthing woman.

Here's a response you could go with: Honey, if you still want to be a mommy when you grow up, I'm sure we'll figure out a way. But you'll always be my baby.

Have a talk with your mom and tell her you believe that imagination is critical to his development. It's normal for her to worry about her grandchildren, but please don't contradict you in front of your kids again. You'll be happy to talk over any concerns she has away from the kids.


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## Qestia (Sep 26, 2005)

Well, I think I'm with the OP, not because of concern about gender issues -- but just because sheesh, he's 3, he'll figure out what he can and can't do soon enough, why not just say sure? Why does a 3 year old need to have these limits placed on him, if he said he wanted to live on the moon when he was grown up would you launch into a big lecture about how it's highly unlikely? No.


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
Here's my take on it. My three year old dd didn't want to turn 4. I said fine, you can stay three. I told people. Dd had her birthday, but she decided to stay 3.

dd has decided she will be various animals, now alive and extinct. She's travelled the world (mostly be plane and sometimes by boat) while sitting on the bed. She's taken 54 babies with her to these far away places on special sleeper planes. She's been a mermaid and a firefighter and a vet and a midwife and a birthing woman.

Here's a response you could go with: Honey, if you still want to be a mommy when you grow up, I'm sure we'll figure out a way. But you'll always be my baby.

Have a talk with your mom and tell her you believe that imagination is critical to his development. It's normal for her to worry about her grandchildren, but please don't contradict you in front of your kids again. You'll be happy to talk over any concerns she has away from the kids.

I love this!









It is true that your boy could gro up to be a mommy even without surgery (not sure why people are saying that!). I'd say your mom may be picking up on some of your son's natural uneasiness--which I find quite common in 3yr olds because they're not quite babies and not quite kids and it's scary for them. So she thinks she's settling his insecurities by imposing strict codes and ideas on him. It's probably time to let your son know that everyone has different ideas and he is just as free to come up with his own and you'll support him.







It sounds like you are doing wonderfully at not limiting his ideas and thoughts due to our adult preconceptions, which totally rocks!


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## LauraLoo (Oct 9, 2006)

Unless your ds has specific understanding of the biological ins and outs of reproduction, which I doubt he does at 3 yo, he is most likely desiring the maternal nuturing role when he says he wants to grow up to be a Mommy. I have no idea about your particular family situation (SO, DH,) and again IMO, I don't think it matters, but if your SO/DH has a breadwinning position and is out of the house to work, your ds might just be wanting a "stay at home mommy" role. We all know that there are SAHD's. Or dc might just be going through a developmental phase of being very attached to you and wants to be just like you when he grows up. I wouldn't let your mom get caught up on the gender assignment of "mommy" and "daddy," but rather have her look at the sentiments and emotions under it. Do you have any brothers and/or nephews or is your mom only used to raising girls? Maybe she doesn't understand little boys. Does she also have issues with boys who play with dolls, play with kitchen sets, or other traditionally girl items?

If it makes you feel any better, my ds went through a phase of this on and off from about 3 to 4.5. At 5.5, my ds gets a big kick out of dressing like daddy and now wishes to be an astronaut when he grows up. My brother went through a phase where he would steal my underwear when he was about 8 years old. He is now happily married, has 2 children and owns his own successful business.

I definitely think your mom is overeacting and I think more damage can be done by trying to "correct" your ds' thinking by telling him that he can never be a mommy. He'll get it later on that he will never be able to birth a child, but at 3, I'd let it ride.


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

Tell Grandma to back off and talk to YOU later, and STOP talking to your family. She is being a bad busy body.

I don't think you should say very much to a child at all about this. I would and will address this issue with my son the same way I addressed it with my daughters. When they told me they were going to grow a beard, I told them "okay you do that."

Or when my DD2 told me she was a boy (she likes to tease, so it is mostly just her teasing and playing with gender concepts as being funny) I looked at her and said, "REALLY? Wow. Where is your penis?" She thought that was HILARIOUS. You could do the same with your son, if he has been introduced to what vaginas are for (mine have).

One doesn't need to correct gender play - just like my daughters won't probably grow beards, your son isn't going to be incubating a baby anytime soon. Their understanding of reality will grow with them, regardless of grandma's Freudian Temper Tantrum.


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## dancingmama (Dec 18, 2001)

My dd wants to grow up to be a fairy princess. Do I sit her down and tell her no, dear, that's simply not realilstic....? Good grief, no! No doubt, soon enough, she'll figure out that this will not be her ultimate destination, but why why why should I dash her dreams now? There is no harm in letting your ds pretend that he will grow up to be a mommy. I will bet that at some point he changes his mind.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeannie81* 
i agree with your mom. i don't understand how you think your son can give birth. ??? why don't you tell him he can be a daddy? im assuming that when he says he is going to be a mommy he has no intention of having his penis made into a vagina and becoming a transexual and then adopting. if that is what his intentions are, then yes, you are right to tell him that he can do that, but he can never be a mommy in the traditional sense which is what i think he probably means.

Ah, he is 3. I don't think he REALLY wants to grow up to be a mommy. Why not just let him be a 3 year old and think in the way a 3 year old thinks? Of course he isn't making lifelong plans, he is just seeing the world through 3 year old eyes. So shaming him for these feelings is better than allowing him age appropriate thoughts and behaviours? My 3 year old is pretty convinced he is growing a baby because I am pregnant. I don't think he really thinks he is going to give birth, he is just excited and identifying with me/my pregnancy the way a 3 year old does. Imagination and reality are so inter-mingled at this age that most kids don't think in rational (to grown ups) way anyway. That is part of the beauty and magic of childhood!

OP, I think it is wonderful that you are so open and accepting of your ds' feelings. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself for not saying anything to your mom at the time, it can be hard. Next time you will be more prepared


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## MysteryMama (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
Ah, he is 3. I don't think he REALLY wants to grow up to be a mommy. Why not just let him be a 3 year old and think in the way a 3 year old thinks? Of course he isn't making lifelong plans, he is just seeing the world through 3 year old eyes. So shaming him for these feelings is better than allowing him age appropriate thoughts and behaviours? My 3 year old is pretty convinced he is growing a baby because I am pregnant. I don't think he really thinks he is going to give birth, he is just excited and identifying with me/me pregnancy the way a 3 year old does.

who said anything about shaming him?


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## GalateaDunkel (Jul 22, 2005)

Well, I'm with the PP who said boys who have kids are called daddies. But I know what you mean about people inculcating gender roles. I got very uncomfortable at my friend's house when she started quizzing her 2.5 yo DS on the genders of all their friends and family (none of whom are ambiguous or trans). Like it's some big deal and crucial that he have it exactly right (and like he can't figure it out on his own, anyway?)...I love my friend to death but if she started that line of questioning with my own kid I would have slapped her silly. Oh yeah and she also told him that the reason not to mess with my ball of yarn (when the real reason was that it was interfering with my knitting) was that yarn is for girls....







:


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

I have had prescribed gender role issues with my DH regarding our 6 yo son, so I can kind of relate to where you are. You did the right thing. Don't allow other people to force you into pigeon holing your son. By the time he hits 18, and older, he will have changed his mind 8 bazillion times as to what he wants to be when he grows up. Trust your mommy instinct, there is nothing wrong with what you said to him.

Namaste,

Michelle


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## GalateaDunkel (Jul 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeannie81* 
who said anything about shaming him?

Well, the OP seemed to imply that grandma giving him the third degree about hens and chicks was a negative experience for him, which seems kind of like "shaming" to me.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

my ds1 is in a current phase of "I'm mommy, you are Anthony". He is exploring roles and imagination.

I don't think you did anything wrong by saying "yes, you can be a mommy when you grow up." I agree with PP that your child was most likely NOT asking about conceiving, gestating and birthing a child, but rather asking about BEING LIKE YOU.

Have you talked with your mom about why she interpreted his comments so literally or so passionately, or why she felt it was so important to dispell his desires on this topic? I think it could be a very interesting conversation, espeically if you raise alternative perspectives on what is his TRUE question - i.e. can I grow up like you?

Gender is a very very important topic in this world - I think discussing how it influences us is critical to understand our assumptions and biases.

Siobhan


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

In our culture, mommies are different from daddies in more ways than giving birth or nursing. Shouldn't be, but is.

So it's really quite understandable if your son specifically chose the role of mommy instead of daddy - he wants to be the things that he considers to be a mommy role, possibly comforting, encouraging, spending a lot of time, whatever "mommy" means to him. To him, "Mommy" probably doesn't mean "a person with a vagina who copulates with a male, grows a fetus and gives birth through said vagina," lol.

Gender "confusion" is very common at this age, and nothing to be concerned about.

My husband recalls being afraid as a small child that he would have to give birth, and he was relieved when he was told he wouldn't/couldn't.

The whole Freudian thing is, I believe, why boys and men are having such trouble these days. Boys without positive and strong (meaning their presence is strong rather than fleeting) male role models aren't able to understand what it means to be a man, a daddy, etc. As the only alternative, they then REJECT all things female. Therefore a man is a NOT-WOMAN. Whatever a woman does, a man must not do. Boys must reject their mothers, rather than embrace their fathers. This is not healthy for either sex.

I don't know how to undo the damage your mother did, as your son almost certainly understands there is something wrong here. It seems that some people feel you shouldn't have allowed your son to believe he could be a mommy (I don't agree) but either way, your mother almost certainly did some damage in her response.

I'd like to add that many young children think they can grow up to be dinosaurs or whatever, and nobody gets upset.

Your son is not going to grow up to think he can give birth just because you reassured him he could do something he categorized as being a mommy when he was 3 years old.

Maybe just have a laugh with your son about how grandma is scared about some things, and of course he can be a mommy, and we call men who are mommies "daddies."

ETA: Wow, this was a hot topic. As I wrote my reply, many others replied right before me. Some had the same ideas as me. Some had better ideas. I'll leave my post stand anyway.


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## SneakyPie (Jan 13, 2002)

Obviously your mom got a button pushed, and of course your son really can't grow up to be a mommy, but geez, mom, pick your battles. I mean technically it IS telling your son a "lie," I'm pretty sure I would at least have started out with "Well, boys can grow up to be daddies," but we are going through an "insisting" phase right now so I'm pretty sure that if my son had gotten upset, I too would have just conceded the point and left the discussion for some other year (if ever!).

I don't see why your mother is suddenly out as a caregiver. If there have been no other problems in the past and you can talk about it with her privately, I don't know why there would be an issue.

I understand where you're coming from about mothering a son and disliking the gender boxing that goes on. I don't want anybody to make fun of my sweet little sensitive guy either. But I think that one of my duties as his parent is also to help him navigate the big bad gender-defined world with grace and be accepted in it. Age 2 (mine) and age 3 (yours) are too young to hit them with lots of explanations of gender expectations and who can biologically be a mommy or daddy -- but when they're feeling secure, I think it's OK to be honest with them. Careers are not gender-dependent; the names of parents are. Favorites (colors, foods) are not gender-dependent, but sometimes people think they are and it's OK to stand up for yourself -- that kind of thing.


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeannie81* 
i don't understand how you think your son can give birth. ???

What does giving birth have to do with being a mommy? I've very offended by this. Yes, I gave birth to all 3 of my boys, but I don't think that makes me "more" of a mommy than if I'd adopted them.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dancingmama* 
No doubt, soon enough, she'll figure out that this will not be her ultimate destination, but why why why should I dash her dreams now? There is no harm in letting your ds pretend that he will grow up to be a mommy.

ds walked into my office, picked up a breastpump, put it to his breast and said "I'm pumping milk!". He sometimes nurses his toy bears and cars.

It was cute and not needing any sort of intervention, in my opinion. Does he need to know that he will never be able to lactate? Why? He is three. I just thought it was great to see a mini-lactivist at work.


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

I don't think you did anything wrong. He really can be ANYTHING he wants when he grows up, even a mommy. There are plenty of transsexual men out there, probably a few mommies as well!


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## Neth Naneth (Aug 11, 2006)

ok, hypatia this what I think.

Your son knows that sometimes Daddies don't live at home. Your son sees that you live at home all the time. Thus in his mind I call my Daddy Daddy and he doesn't always live at home. I call my Mommy Mommy and she does always live at home. Thus if I grow up to be a Mommy than I can stay at home too. Which is all he wants at this point. Is to be able to stay at home.

I don't think that you are warping him in anyway. He's 3, he'll figure out what he want to grow up to be.


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## mamamaris (Jul 12, 2006)

hypatia said:


> When my mom was over the other day, my DS (age 3) insisted that when he grew up he was going to be a mommy. [To give you context: For a few days, DS has been telling me that he doesn't want to have any more birthdays because he doesn't want to grow up. He just wants to be three years old forever. When I talk to him more about it, he gets very teary and says that he doesn't want to grow up because he doesn't want to have to move out of our house and leave us. When he gets to this part of the story, his voice gets very quavery and teary. My DH has been living in another city and working for the past two months, and my DS is very afraid that he might get have to leave our house like his father. When we have these conversations, I tell DS that he can live in our house for as long as he wants, and we will never make him leave. But he's very, very worried. Usually, that is as far as the conversation goes, but this one time when my mom was over, DS said he was going to grow up to be a mommy.]
> QUOTE]
> 
> THis paragraph was the basis of your son's problem if I'm reading correctly. Gender play is normal at this age but it sounds like what he is really looking for is security, which you are trying to give him. Your mom's issues with his comments are silly imo but some people are weirded out by gender roles being crossed. I would imagine that being a mommy is just being like you (not the whole literal birth thing) which I would guess puts him in a trusting, caring place. He needs reassurance if daddy is gone.
> ...


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

For me there is a difference between a child asking "can I be a mommy?" and a child simply informing you of their plans and you say "okay". I agree with the posters who suggested that what he means by being a mommy is probably that he'd like to be like you and have a primary parenting role with children. My response in that situation would probably be "I think you'll be a great parent because you are so loving and kind. How many kids would you like to have?"


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## BennyPai (Jul 22, 2005)

Sometimes my 3yo dd insists that she is a boy, man, and yes: even a Daddy - all as part of using her imagination. IMO, this is no different than pretending to be a monkey/kangaroo/astronaut/midwife, etc.

What a ridiculous idea that we should limit our dc's normala imaginative play in this way!


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

My ds had the same issues as the OP's ds when he was 3. He was concerned about growing up and moving out which is where the 4everboy comes from. We will stay together forever or until he changes his mind







. He talked about being a mommy and I agreed. Like a pp said, it wasn't the biological, giving-birth definition that he was using but that of a nurturing adult who would take care of babies. Adults take things so literally,







!


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

What do I think?

He is a very young child who doesn't need to hear conversations about transgender and such. Not that there is anything wrong with it of course, but he is only 3.

And I also agree w/ the posters who say, "let him have this dream." Again, he is 3. Probably by the time he is 3 and three quarters he will have moved onto something else.

My last thought is that you and your mom should stop arguing about this. Honestly, it's not that big of a fish to fry when you look at the big picture. I hope you don't prevent her from taking care of him b/c of this ONE thing. Sounds like she is a cool and open-minded lady overall!


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
He is a very young child who doesn't need to hear conversations about transgender and such. Not that there is anything wrong with it of course, but he is only 3.


I don't agree with this. I think it's important to let kids know from the get-go that everyone is different and people are not always the same on the inside as they 'appear' on the outside. That concept naturally progresses to gender and I think it's logical and fine to talk about it with kids because it is a part of the human condition.


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## De-lovely (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BennyPai* 
Sometimes my 3yo dd insists that she is a boy, man, and yes: even a Daddy - all as part of using her imagination. IMO, this is no different than pretending to be a monkey/kangaroo/astronaut/midwife, etc.

What a ridiculous idea that we should limit our dc's normala imaginative play in this way!


Indeed.

This has caused quite a response and I am surprised at some of them.I dont think "mommy" equals birth at all.....and I dont see much of a difference in being anything else a 3 year old "decides" to be.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LauraLoo* 
Unless your ds has specific understanding of the biological ins and outs of reproduction, which I doubt he does at 3 yo, he is most likely desiring the maternal nuturing role when he says he wants to grow up to be a Mommy. I have no idea about your particular family situation (SO, DH,) and again IMO, I don't think it matters, but if your SO/DH has a breadwinning position and is out of the house to work, your ds might just be wanting a "stay at home mommy" role. We all know that there are SAHD's. Or dc might just be going through a developmental phase of being very attached to you and wants to be just like you when he grows up. I wouldn't let your mom get caught up on the gender assignment of "mommy" and "daddy," but rather have her look at the sentiments and emotions under it. Do you have any brothers and/or nephews or is your mom only used to raising girls? Maybe she doesn't understand little boys. Does she also have issues with boys who play with dolls, play with kitchen sets, or other traditionally girl items?

If it makes you feel any better, my ds went through a phase of this on and off from about 3 to 4.5. At 5.5, my ds gets a big kick out of dressing like daddy and now wishes to be an astronaut when he grows up. My brother went through a phase where he would steal my underwear when he was about 8 years old. He is now happily married, has 2 children and owns his own successful business.

I definitely think your mom is overeacting and I think more damage can be done by trying to "correct" your ds' thinking by telling him that he can never be a mommy. He'll get it later on that he will never be able to birth a child, but at 3, I'd let it ride.

I 100% agree with this. My son is only 2, but when my brother was 3 or 4 he wanted to be a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle when he grew up. My mom said fine and made him a costume out of outgrown clothes (elbow bads, eye mask) and he became a TMNT It's not like your son understands that to be a mommy he'll have to have his penis removed, thats just silly, IMO, I think he's just attached to you and wants to imulate you, there is nothing wrong with that.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

I really fail to see the big deal about telling a 3 year old, "Sure you can be a mommy if you want to be". It's no different than telling a 3 year old, "Sure you can be a fairy princess if you wanna be"


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajama* 
I don't agree with this. I think it's important to let kids know from the get-go that everyone is different and people are not always the same on the inside as they 'appear' on the outside. That concept naturally progresses to gender and I think it's logical and fine to talk about it with kids because it is a part of the human condition.

I agree.

And for all we know, he might grow up and be a mommy.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajama* 
I don't agree with this. I think it's important to let kids know from the get-go that everyone is different and people are not always the same on the inside as they 'appear' on the outside. That concept naturally progresses to gender and I think it's logical and fine to talk about it with kids because it is a part of the human condition.

Mamajama, I should clarify this, b/c I do agree with you! I guess what I mean is that his ability to comprehend, at the age of 3, is quite different than even a 5 year old.

I absolutely agree with you about letting him know from the get-go that everyone is different and people are not always the same on the inside as they 'appear' on the outside...

I guess my point it to keep it simple. When you word it like that it sounds wonderful! But what I originally meant is that it's not really necessary to get into heavy conversations about some of the more in-depth information as regards to this topic.


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## thebee321 (Dec 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Neth Naneth* 
ok, hypatia this what I think.

Your son knows that sometimes Daddies don't live at home. Your son sees that you live at home all the time. Thus in his mind I call my Daddy Daddy and he doesn't always live at home. I call my Mommy Mommy and she does always live at home. Thus if I grow up to be a Mommy than I can stay at home too. Which is all he wants at this point. Is to be able to stay at home.

I don't think that you are warping him in anyway. He's 3, he'll figure out what he want to grow up to be.


I agree. Reading the title of your post, but then reading the context within your post was quite enlightening for me. I think he was really saying he wanted to be like you, and not have to go off away from home like Daddy does.

I can kind of understand your mom having that initial reaction (not that I agree!) but then to go off gossiping about it around your family is completely unacceptable.


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## gargirl (Dec 30, 2006)

I think you did great! You soothed his fears and there is plenty of time to tell him later about differing gender abilities. What does your mom want, for you to describe grafically how babies are made to a 3 year old???

Also, he could grow up to be a mommy! He could be gay or transgendered and decide he IS a mommy. Its not sci-fi, its the human condition. I strongly resist rigid gender crap, I don't care who thinks it will confuse my kids. My boys are not confused. They all went through a I'm going to be a mommy phase and grew out of it within months. It was a sweet phase I think too few boys are allowed.

When I was a girl I wanted to be a king... not a queen ever, KING. (still working on it! LOL)

If my mom pulled a bunch of heavy handed crap like that I would show her the door.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I don't think you did anythig wrong and I think your mom is totally out of line! And I would tell her so.

And yes he could decide he is female, and choose to ID as a mommy when he grows up.

Although I agree with the PP that what your ds was probably trying to say was that

Quote:

Your son knows that sometimes Daddies don't live at home. Your son sees that you live at home all the time. Thus in his mind I call my Daddy Daddy and he doesn't always live at home. I call my Mommy Mommy and she does always live at home. Thus if I grow up to be a Mommy than I can stay at home too. Which is all he wants at this point. Is to be able to stay at home.


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## MysteryMama (Aug 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
What does giving birth have to do with being a mommy? I've very offended by this. Yes, I gave birth to all 3 of my boys, but I don't think that makes me "more" of a mommy than if I'd adopted them.

Wendy you obviously didn't take the time to read my post in it's entirety. I said that if wants to become a woman and ADOPT then he will be a mommy.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeannie81* 
i agree with your mom. i don't understand how you think your son can give birth. ??? why don't you tell him he can be a daddy? im assuming that when he says he is going to be a mommy he has no intention of having his penis made into a vagina and becoming a transexual and then adopting. if that is what his intentions are, then yes, you are right to tell him that he can do that, but he can never be a mommy in the traditional sense which is what i think he probably means.

A 3 yo would not have the capacity to have those intentions... We're talking about a 3 yo. One who has some anxiety related to leaving home; whose daddy is absent due to work, and whose mommy is present and seemingly nurturing. If Daddies leave and Mommies stay, and what he wants is to make sure he doesn't leave, then Mommy it is... in his mind. His 3 yo mind. Seems like the obvious choice. Heck, my _DH_ wants to be a mommy sometimes, since I SAHM, and he thinks it's so easy.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *dancingmama* 
My dd wants to grow up to be a fairy princess. Do I sit her down and tell her no, dear, that's simply not realilstic....? Good grief, no! No doubt, soon enough, she'll figure out that this will not be her ultimate destination, but why why why should I dash her dreams now? There is no harm in letting your ds pretend that he will grow up to be a mommy. I will bet that at some point he changes his mind.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *BennyPai* 
Sometimes my 3yo dd insists that she is a boy, man, and yes: even a Daddy - all as part of using her imagination. IMO, this is no different than pretending to be a monkey/kangaroo/astronaut/midwife, etc.

What a ridiculous idea that we should limit our dc's normala imaginative play in this way!

That's where my thoughts went. If he said he wants to be a purple space hippo, is Gramma gonna come down on him and say, "Um, sonny, there is NO _WAY_ that's gonna happen!"

MIL needs a behavior-check, first. I'd feel compelled to let her know, "That's more aggressive than I am comfortable with..."

Next, maybe try to have a sense of humor, with her, about this situation, and bring it to her... "Hey, I know you're kinda freaked out and felt you needed to talk to all the reletives, so maybe we should talk..." Be easy, and ask lotsa questions. Find out why it's such an issue for her, and ask guiding questions like: "Are you afraid ds isn't getting a good model of man-hood?" <- insert laughter. Maybe let her know gently that you are confidant that he doesn't have any warping to worry about, and that you'd rather spend time cultivating his imagination, than instructing him on the ins-and-outs (no pun intended) of gender roles. <- Use that!! She might laugh!


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

Well, a boy cant be a mother. Thats not a gender role, thats just life. That said, what with your DH being away and your DS having issues I would have said the same thing. He probably wont remember and you can talk up how great being a daddy is. I think I remember DS saying he wanted to be a mommy. No big deal. I doubt he will be rushing out for "gender reassignment" surgery based on one off-hand comment at the age of 3. I wouldnt worry abou it.


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## Canadianmommax3 (Mar 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qestia* 
Well, I think I'm with the OP, not because of concern about gender issues -- but just because sheesh, he's 3, he'll figure out what he can and can't do soon enough, why not just say sure? Why does a 3 year old need to have these limits placed on him, if he said he wanted to live on the moon when he was grown up would you launch into a big lecture about how it's highly unlikely? No.

exactly!


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## Marlet (Sep 9, 2004)

I haven't read all the replies but this is my take on it all.

He's three. He is with MOM all day. Dad is off working far away. He is worried he is going to grow up and have to leave the house. In his 3 year old brain MOMMIES get to stay home. They don't have to leave or move out or go away. Makes perfect sense to me that he would chose a "safe" person and want to be that.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

No, it wasn't horrible of you to say that.

Does your mom live with you? I think that next time you might be prepared (if possible) to enforce boundaries when she gets aggressive with your son (either tell her it's time to go, or leave). That's harder if you're staying together right now.

I do think that you should have a talk with your mom as well, explaining why DS was saying that, and what he needs right now, and why you think he chose 'mommy'. Most older folks have never had things approached in that way, and she may not have ever been in a position to go through what you're going through now. And after you explain the whys, you can make it clear to her that she is not to behave like that again (aggressively questioning your son), and that if she has concerns she should bring them up privately to you.


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## Canadianmommax3 (Mar 6, 2006)

my boys when they were little were going to marry me, i would never sit them down and explain that the laws say we aren't allowed to marry.
I always thought it was so sweet.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I think what you said was fine.









For the relationship with your mother, I wonder if you've asked her why it's such a heightened issue for her, and explained that you were wanting to help your son with security? I'm guessing that you did but I wasn't sure reading your post.

I don't /agree/ with her position one iota but it seems a bit like a chance to open up a dialogue with her about it rather than automatically shut the door (although that might be necessary later). I wonder if there's a reason this was so much on her mind and why she felt it necessary to get on the phone about it. And the only person who would know would be her.


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

I think what you said was fine.

When my DS was 3, he wanted to be a jeep. Who was i to tell him he couldn't?

Most likely, as a PP said, your DS associates Mommies with the parent who stays home, and Daddies with the parent who goes out and works. So he wants to be a mommy, so he can stay home. no biggie.

It's not like you're giving your child teh gay omgorrrrrz!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If grandma keeps up, tell her to stuff it.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

Quote:

When my DS was 3, he wanted to be a jeep


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## tamagotchi (Oct 16, 2005)

When I was little, I had a phase when I wanted to be a monk. I imagined myself living in a beautiful monastery, wearing a brown robe, being fat and jolly, brewing beer, and studying old illustrated manuscripts









I would get really angry if anyone suggested I could be a nun instead. That was not the same thing at all!


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## lifescholar (Nov 26, 2006)

Sorry if this has already been said...I only read the 1st and 3rd pages...

I don't think it was horrible to say that, but I would have had a different response.

I would have told him that he grow up to be a DADDY, and that some Daddies get to stay home with their kids (assuming that is what he was thinking of when he made that comment). I probably would have also pointed out other things that Daddies can do.

I definitely don't want him to be stuck in a gender role, which is why I would want to get across to him NOW that Daddies can be just as good parents (and just as involved) as Mommies!


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## FireFrog (Jun 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Neth Naneth* 
ok, hypatia this what I think.

Your son knows that sometimes Daddies don't live at home. Your son sees that you live at home all the time. Thus in his mind I call my Daddy Daddy and he doesn't always live at home. I call my Mommy Mommy and she does always live at home. Thus if I grow up to be a Mommy than I can stay at home too. Which is all he wants at this point. Is to be able to stay at home.

I don't think that you are warping him in anyway. He's 3, he'll figure out what he want to grow up to be.









: This makes total sense to me.

On the other hand, your mother's reaction makes sense to me, too (NOT that I agree with it, only that I _understand_ it). She obviously feels threatened, but that's not _your_ problem. Do what you feel is right for your son at the stage he is in. This can all be "sorted" out later, when he is older and more secure.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Canadianmommax3* 
my boys when they were little were going to marry me, i would never sit them down and explain that the laws say we aren't allowed to marry.
I always thought it was so sweet.

I generally tell them that I love them but I can't marry them because I'm married to their dad. Sometimes they go, "Ok, well then I'll marry... (name of friend."


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Well I don't think you are horrible or that you scarred him. I think you coul dhave hadled it better though. (of course I have had time to mul it over with out a very sad 3 year old loking for reassuarance right now







in your shoes I probably woud have done the same thing.) but since I have the privledge of hindsight an time to think here are some other ways you may have been able to handel it without crushing him.

"Oh I assumed you would want to be a daddy just like your daddy. tell me . .. why do you want to be a mommy? what is so good about mommies? if you were a mommy what would you do? how would you look if you were a mommy? will you be my mommy? do tyou think there is a down side to being a mommy? (no me neither







)" rather than tell him what he can or can't be or should or shouldn't be, just talk about why he wants to be a mommy. whats good about mommies. and it would also be a good time to build up dad a bit. compare and contrast the roles. whats good about daddies. and maybe even talk a bit about why he doesn't want to be a daddy (but not nessecary, however i think this whole situation comes around to him missing daddy and not wanting him to be a way. wanting him to stay at home like mommy).

what if he had said something else. like "I want to be an doctor" there is no need to say "yes you can and should an will be a Dr. one day" That would be silly and beside you have no idea if he can or should or will be a Dr. you could have much more fun by asking "why do you want to be a doctor? what is fun about being a doctor? what kind of patients will you see? will you operate? how much do you charge? what if I were your patient? where will your job take you in the world? "

its ok to go ahead and let him explore that whole thing and talk about his feelings and imagine himself in different roles without making promises or telling lies. there is no need to shut him down but there is also no need to make promises you can't keep.

of course if he asks you directly "will I be a mommy some day" you only have three options. Lie to spare his feelings and sy yes, tell him the truth and say no and deal with whatever comes your way or option three is just be vague "I don't know what you will grow up to be but I can't wait to see!!". me I am a wuss and would choose option three.


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## NoHiddenFees (Mar 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
What does giving birth have to do with being a mommy? I've very offended by this. Yes, I gave birth to all 3 of my boys, but I don't think that makes me "more" of a mommy than if I'd adopted them.

As an adult adoptee, I have to concur. Further, since gender roles are constructed rather than inherent, why couldn't he be a Mommy even if he weren't transexual? OK, yeah, this is a 3 yo child... I don't mean to be literal... I'm just asking why he couldn't be a Mommy? What does that mean? What makes a woman a Mommy as opposed to "just" a woman and is the role assigned or assumed? I reject the notion that it's having given birth, so there must be something else.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
I really fail to see the big deal about telling a 3 year old, "Sure you can be a mommy if you want to be". It's no different than telling a 3 year old, "Sure you can be a fairy princess if you wanna be"

ITA. We're talking about a 3yo here, not a 12yo! He's still a baby!


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## mamaverdi (Apr 5, 2005)

Is he willing to work for less than minimum wage?


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## J's Mombee (Aug 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NoHiddenFees* 
As an adult adoptee, I have to concur. Further, since gender roles are constructed rather than inherent, why couldn't he be a Mommy even if he weren't transexual? OK, yeah, this is a 3 yo child... I don't mean to be literal... I'm just asking why he couldn't be a Mommy? What does that mean? What makes a woman a Mommy as opposed to "just" a woman and is the role assigned or assumed? I reject the notion that it's having given birth, so there must be something else.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Canadianmommax3* 
my boys when they were little were going to marry me, i would never sit them down and explain that the laws say we aren't allowed to marry.
I always thought it was so sweet.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qestia* 
Well, I think I'm with the OP, not because of concern about gender issues -- but just because sheesh, he's 3, he'll figure out what he can and can't do soon enough, why not just say sure? Why does a 3 year old need to have these limits placed on him, if he said he wanted to live on the moon when he was grown up would you launch into a big lecture about how it's highly unlikely? No.

I agree... not a big deal. My mom told me that I could be Ms. Piggy when I grew up and that I could have long wavy hair... It never happened, and now I have things that I can look back and laugh at. And when you think about it, I could still be MS. Piggy for about $250 for a name change, and I could go to the Hair Salon and get long wavy hair....









Also, after loving my aunt for my whole life (who has no children of her own) I have learned to really question what the term "mom" means... so your son may grow up to feel like a mommy to someone or maybe he might just look back and laugh... Don't beat yourself up...


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 
of course if he asks you directly "will I be a mommy some day" you only have three options. Lie to spare his feelings and sy yes, tell him the truth and say no and deal with whatever comes your way or option three is just be vague "I don't know what you will grow up to be but I can't wait to see!!". me I am a wuss and would choose option three.

Why is it a lie to say yes?







:


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

I am in the camp that says it's not a lie.

We know transgendered people. If I told dd she couldn't be a daddy she'd tell me I was wrong and she'd be able to cite examples to prove her case.









I don't have a problem with telling your boy he can be whatever he wants, and I also don't have a problem with discussing gender issues/transgender with a child on that child's level. We've told my 3yo that so-and-so was born a man but now lives as a woman and that seemed reasonable to her (she asked about the differences she noticed).

(I got a little derailed - I wanted to clarify and say I probably would NOT discuss transgender issues in this instance, I am just saying that in general I don't think it's a bad thing to discuss with kids. But in this instance it probably wouldn't be very relevant because I don't think transgenderism is the issue.







Hope that made sense!)


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeannie81* 
Wendy you obviously didn't take the time to read my post in it's entirety. I said that if wants to become a woman and ADOPT then he will be a mommy.

No, I read your whole post. You said he would have to have surgery and adopt to become a mommy, which I disagree with. You don't have to have a sex change operation to be viewed as outwardly (socially) female.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

yes its a lie. is it a big deal? no

but some people are not comfortable presenting fantasy as reality (check out some of the Santa threads). my point was that there are ways to embrace his desire and play with fantasy without saying yes or no if one is not comfortable with that. just more of a "hey that sounds like a really fun idea. tell me more about it!"


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

It is not a lie. He could grow up to be a mommy.


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## kewb (May 13, 2005)

Well, if you are horrible I guess I am too. As I told my ds and dd that if they really wanted to get married when they grew up then we would figure something out. They were both in tears when I tried explaining to them that brothers and sisters do not marry but that they find other people to marry. And there they were crying to me "But we love each other so much." So, I said what I said. Tears stopped and off they went to play. They had no understanding of love outside the brother and sister concept and I certainly did not need to go into it at the ages they were at the time. They are 8 & 6 now and the no longer want to marry each other.

My ds also went through the mommy phase and that was just fine with me and dh, too. My dd informed me she is not having children and she will be the daddy. Exploring your place in the universe is normal. There is no reason for your parents to squash your dreams at such a young age. Tell your mom to butt out.


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## Sharon RN (Sep 6, 2006)

Whoa.

He's three. At that age, I'm sure my son said something about being a mommy, and I'm sure I played along- we had dolls and such.

Recently he keeps bugging me to have another child. (No, really. LOL







) Frustrated, I said, "How about you have a child and you can be the mommy?"

He looked at me like I had 2 heads. "Uh, Mo-om (you know how they make the word with 2 syllables instead of one! LOL), I can't do that! I'm a boy! I can't make a baby come out. I have a penis!"

So he's certainly figured it out!

I think you're fine. I'm sorry you had a fight with your mom, though. And it makes me so thankful that my mom has a "hands-off" style when it comes to letting me raise my son how I want!


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## kaliki_kila (Aug 16, 2005)

I didn't read the responses, so forgive me if this has already been said.

I have my BA in Child Development and as far as Freud is concerned - our professors taught us about his theories and we all laughed and moved on. No person in the field of Child Development actually takes Freud seriously anymore (besides the oral-anal-phallic-latency-genital stages - that is actually a bit helpful).

Your son sees "Mommy" as a nurturing, loving, fun person and that's why he wants to be a "mommy." It's not damaging to his psyche to tell him he can be a "mommy" when he grows up. He'll figure out the logistics soon enough.


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

[QUOTEI mean technically it IS telling your son a "lie," ][/QUOTE]

It isn't a lie, men can mother, women can father, you don't have to give birth to be a mother, you don't need to have surgery to become the opposite sex, it's okay to talk about transgender stuff to 3 yo's (though in this case it might not be necessary, but still a valuable discussion to have, my 3 yo and I have talked about it), and people who try to tell you anything different from what I just said are just plain wrong.

Seriously, the outmoded idea that mothering and fathering is defined by what is in your pants is just that, outmoded. Transgender folks do not have to have surgery to become the opposite sex, becaue they are not defined by what is in their pants either.

As for this boy, I have issues with the grandmother, I think it's perfectly fine to go along with his imagination, and of course boxing him in is just wrong. His idea of mothering is probably just that mothers stay home with children, and that is possible of course. I know plenty of fathers (the term society uses for men with children) who are mothers (the way society defines how mothers act towards children), and of course plenty of mothers who father. I have done my own fathering to my 3 yo.


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## hypatia (Apr 29, 2002)

Thanks for so many insightful and eloquent responses!

I feel I agree with the sentiments expressed by many posters that my DS was age-appropriatedly exploring. Lilyka, if I had had a little more time, I would, as you suggested, have explored with him the line of thinking you raised, talking with him about him about what it means to be a mommy (and a daddy) and see where that went. I feel like I've reached a good level of resolution on this issue and I feel relatively confident on the gender roles/imagination issue.

What I'm have a lot harder time on, still, is how to deal with the question of my mother. What really bothered me that she did is she completely (I believe deliberately) ignored the emotional undertone of the conversation. She was also trying to overstep my bounds as a parent, and upset and confused DS. In the broader context, we are also dealing with other boundary issues. (For example, she keeps picking wax out of DS's ears no matter how much he tells her not to, and I tell her not to. She only does it when I'm not around.)

A lot of you recommended that I talk to her directly, set some boundaries, and try to have an open discussion with her about what's bothering her. That all seems reasonable, but honestly, it just gives me the chills to think of having an frank conversation with my mother. Honest discussions with my mother are really awful because she is so defensive, and just lashed out horribly.

And I can try to set boundaries with her, but I couldn't trust her to respect them. She's just not the kind of person who respects boundaries. And I've kind of reached some peace with her violating _my_ boundaries, because I understand that her violating boundaries is about her, not me.

But when I think of her violating DS's boundaries, it just makes me crazy! And what I've sort of realized of the course of this thread is that I am letting her walk all over him, because I'm scared to deal with her extreme reactions and retaliations. Like when I told her to put DS in cloth and not sneak disposables, she just flipped out and called me a "dictator" and "your highness" and a lot of unprintables. In front of DS.

I don't think she is synonymous with her worst traits and I don't want to cut her out entirely, but dealing with her is really stressful. Because basically, asserting any boundary causes World War III. And I'm just realizing that in order to stand up for DS I have to be firm about boundaries (hence leading to craziness) or I have to distance us a lot from her, so that she doesn't have the opportunity to cross boundaries. That is not as easy as it sounds on an Internet forum.

Anyway, thank you to all of you for your help and for helping me pinpoint the real issue.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I see there are three pages of comments, but I'm leaving my response without reading them.

When I was a girl, my father used to say to me, "You can be anything you want in the whole world, but I'm sorry for you that you can't be a father like I am, because it's my favorite thing." Which I always read as 1. affirming of me and 2. an expression of how much he loved me.

As it turns out, he was wrong! I actually am friends with someone now who grew up a girl and is now a dad! He is the best dad and the happiest person! The icing on the cake was telling my 70 year old father about it and us both being kind of pleased by the new possibilities of changing times.

But this does not address "you can be a mommy when you grow up."

When kids pretend, the sky should be the limit. If you can pretend to be an astronaut, a sailor, a ballerina, a cowboy, a nuclear physicist, a princess, a king, a dragon or a tiger, why should you worry about a silly thing like "boy tiger" or "girl tiger"?

At some point, your son is going to throw in his lot with the boys. (In all statistical likelihood.) We like boys; boys are great. Let's take our cues from the kids and let them set the schedule on that, and not rush them into that all important penis phase, or whatever your mom called it. Lots of stages, lots of phases, and plenty of time for you to be a loving mom in all of them, affirming your kid and being optimistic about his future.


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## Twocoolboys (Mar 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain optimism* 
When kids pretend, the sky should be the limit. If you can pretend to be an astronaut, a sailor, a ballerina, a cowboy, a nuclear physicist, a princess, a king, a dragon or a tiger, why should you worry about a silly thing like "boy tiger" or "girl tiger"?

At some point, your son is going to throw in his lot with the boys. (In all statistical likelihood.) We like boys; boys are great. Let's take our cues from the kids and let them set the schedule on that, and not rush them into that all important penis phase, or whatever your mom called it. Lots of stages, lots of phases, and plenty of time for you to be a loving mom in all of them, affirming your kid and being optimistic about his future.


I love this. That is so well said! Right now, my 2, almost 3 year old, wants to be a puppy when he grows up, or at least that's what he said last week - lol. I told him he would be a fantastic puppy. I don't see any point in saying anything different - he's just playing.

OP - I understand your boundry issues. Have you considered counseling? That may help you deal with your mother.


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

You - Mentally stable, intelligent, educated, well-read, mother.

Freud - Mentally unstable, intelligent, rejecting, familially distant father, angry cocaine addict who wanted to screw his mommy.

I think you win.


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Demeter9* 
You - Mentally stable, intelligent, educated, well-read, mother.

Freud - Mentally unstable, intelligent, rejecting, familially distant father, angry cocaine addict who wanted to screw his mommy.

I think you win.


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## jenn72 (Feb 21, 2007)

The far bigger issue to me is the fact that your mother contradicted you in front of your child, upset your child, and then went on to complain about your parenting to other people. Totally inappropriate.


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## lifescholar (Nov 26, 2006)

Ok, here is the problem I have with this whole discussion.

A lot of people are saying that it's not a lie to tell a boy that he can become a Mommy, because men can take on traditionally female roles. Men can "mother", and women can "father", right??

But why, pray tell, can't a "Daddy" be the exact SAME type of parent as a "Mommy"?!?!?

To me, it's very contradictory. You are saying that boys can grow up to be anything they want, including a "mommy", but that if they become a "daddy", they won't be able to do the same things as a "mommy"! I'm sure many SAHD's would strongly disagree!

I'm not going to tell my son that he can't be ANYTHING, but I also plan to let him know that Daddies and Mommies aren't so different! Heck, Daddies can even breastfeed!!


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dancingmama* 
My dd wants to grow up to be a fairy princess. Do I sit her down and tell her no, dear, that's simply not realilstic....? Good grief, no! No doubt, soon enough, she'll figure out that this will not be her ultimate destination, but why why why should I dash her dreams now? There is no harm in letting your ds pretend that he will grow up to be a mommy. I will bet that at some point he changes his mind.

Exactly! My gosh... let children PRETEND for the few years they still will







: I haven't read all the responses, but I agree with this one and think the OP handled it very well







I agree also with the pp who mentioned that your ds probably sees his father have to leave to earn money and is desiring to stay home like his mommy does.

It was totally inappropriate in this situation, IMO, for your mom to be telling him what he can or can't be based on his gender. He was very obviously not talking about becoming transgendered and he never actually mentioned giving birth either. He's THREE for crying out loud!

How many of you who think the grandmother was right would tell your sons who pretend to nurse dolls or stuffed animals - "no, honey, you can't breastfeed you're a boy."? It's pretty much the same thing... And all children do eventually figure biological gender roles out - whether they are transgender or not.

love and peace.


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## LauraLoo (Oct 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hypatia* 
A lot of you recommended that I talk to her directly, set some boundaries, and try to have an open discussion with her about what's bothering her. That all seems reasonable, but honestly, it just gives me the chills to think of having an frank conversation with my mother. Honest discussions with my mother are really awful because she is so defensive, and just lashed out horribly.

And I can try to set boundaries with her, but I couldn't trust her to respect them. She's just not the kind of person who respects boundaries. And I've kind of reached some peace with her violating _my_ boundaries, because I understand that her violating boundaries is about her, not me.

Big hugs to you. I know that you'll do what's best for you and your ds.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
I really fail to see the big deal about telling a 3 year old, "Sure you can be a mommy if you want to be". It's no different than telling a 3 year old, "Sure you can be a fairy princess if you wanna be"









:


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

xldjfldfjdlskfnslrihjrsdknmskrfj


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

OP,








Your mom is very much in the wrong. You were great with your son, very caring and supportive. We all know that there are many years between three and adulthood and that nothing a baby your son's age should be taken as an indication of what type of adult he'll be.

~Nay


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeannie81* 
i agree with your mom. i don't understand how you think your son can give birth. ???









I seriously doubt the OP is that stupid.


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeannie81* 
i agree with your mom. i don't understand how you think your son can give birth. ??? why don't you tell him he can be a daddy? im assuming that when he says he is going to be a mommy he has no intention of having his penis made into a vagina and becoming a transexual and then adopting. if that is what his intentions are, then yes, you are right to tell him that he can do that, but he can never be a mommy in the traditional sense which is what i think he probably means.

For starters, you don't have to give birth to be a mommy.

Using your logic, nobody should ever tell their children what they can or can't be when they grow up. I mean, how do I know that my daughter will be able to have children (or have the financial resources to adopt) for sure when she grows up? Since I don't know that for sure, by your reasoning, it would be wrong for me to tell her that she could be a mommy someday.

It sounds to me like her DS has some set issues/beliefs about mommies and daddies right now - namely that he thinks that daddies have to leave the house and mommies get to stay home. He has expressed insecurity about having to leave the house, and therefore has decided that he wants to be a mommy, so that he can stay home. The OP did the right thing by reassuring him. Telling him, no, you can't be a mommy, but you can be a daddy would only further upset him in this situation. And while yes, it is possible for the OP to sit down and explain that not all daddies have to be away from home, at 3 years old, he is projecting his own worldview onto things, and it is not always easy to just explain something so big to a small child.


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Also, I think it is far more important to encourage children to be who they are/who they want to be, than it is to encourage them who *we* want them to be.


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## lanamommyphd07 (Feb 14, 2007)

I can understand the OPs conundrum on mom--I have a pretty traditional mom myself, and there are times she has said things like, "you're not raising this child VEGETARIAN are you?" (to which I replied, "yes, mom, I'm going to try since I see it as the best option, but if you want to feed the child some meat substance, be sure to do it when you have him/her the next day to deal with the sickness, cramping and poo that will result. I don't want to be associated with it") She's got her own beliefs and world views, and it's okay with me that she has some kind of "special" relationship with the kiddo. If she wants to share her beliefs about gender typing with him/her, then it won't be the first or last time. Maybe my kid will be able to teach her something about being a sheep in life, since that is the last thing I'll allow in a kid. But the good news is, she's coming along, and really does have so much love and mean well. The OPs mom was likely overreacting to the OPs reaction by running around saying to everyone these things and seeking validation for her own reaction. (if that makes any sense)


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

I agree that your ds needs the emotional, not literal, meaning of his desire addressed. The fact that your mother calls it "the penis phase" tells me she is not terribly familiar or accurate when it comes to developmental theory. yes, phallic and genital preiccupation is a nromal developmental phase, but "penis phase" is not the correct term! LOL If she is goint to try adn pull scientific rank on you, she should at least get teh terms straight









I agree with the previous poster who noted that your ds likely associates daddies with people who disappear or go away and aren't part of the every day family anymore - that is big, scary stuff for a 3 year old. Mommies are home (in his world) and make the world feel like a good place. Why wouldn't he want that?


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifescholar* 
Ok, here is the problem I have with this whole discussion.

A lot of people are saying that it's not a lie to tell a boy that he can become a Mommy, because men can take on traditionally female roles. Men can "mother", and women can "father", right??

But why, pray tell, can't a "Daddy" be the exact SAME type of parent as a "Mommy"?!?!?

To me, it's very contradictory. You are saying that boys can grow up to be anything they want, including a "mommy", but that if they become a "daddy", they won't be able to do the same things as a "mommy"! I'm sure many SAHD's would strongly disagree!

I'm not going to tell my son that he can't be ANYTHING, but I also plan to let him know that Daddies and Mommies aren't so different! Heck, Daddies can even breastfeed!!

A daddy can be the same type of parent as a mommy, but he could also grow up and decide he is a woman and has kids and would be a mommy, for one example.


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## Terabith (Mar 10, 2006)

Oh for crying out loud! Your mom needs to build a bridge and get over it! I personally think there was absolutely nothing wrong with what you said. Of course, one year I taught a class of three year olds in preschool. Coincidentally, that year all the kiddos were boys.







: It was fun. So we were all sitting at snack, eating our goldfish and what not, when Stuart said, "I'm going to be a dentist when I grow up, just like my daddy." Michael said, "I'm going to be a firefighter when I grow up." Alex said, "When *I* grow up, I'm going to be Spiderman." Stuart countered, "Well, Im going to be Spiderman and a dentist." Stephen said, "Well, when I grow up, I'm going to be a dinosaur." Michael got all indignant and was like, "You can't be a dinosaur when you grow up!" And Stephen was like, "Yes, I can! I'm going to be a tyrannosaurous rex!" And then Cole said, "Well, I'm going to be a Mommy when I grow up." Michael was like, "You can't be a mommy when you grow up! You're a boy!" And Cole started to tear up and was like, "Yes, I can! Tell him, Miss Jessica! Tell him I can be a mommy when I grow up! Im a boy now but I'll be a girl when I grow up." So here I am, the preschool teacher whose dd's godmother was named Steve in college, trying to broker the discussion....."Well, usually boys grow up to be daddies and girls grow up to be mommies. But sometimes boys decide that they want to be mommies and girls decide to be daddies. But not usually. Usually we stay people too, not dinosaurs. But it can be fun to pretend, can't it?" And then Michael said, "Look, my cracker looks like a pleisaurous!"


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

I love three year olds


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## Getz (May 22, 2005)

The kid is three! I guess I don't see the big deal of just agreeing with him.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Qestia* 
Well, I think I'm with the OP, not because of concern about gender issues -- but just because sheesh, he's 3, he'll figure out what he can and can't do soon enough, why not just say sure? Why does a 3 year old need to have these limits placed on him, if he said he wanted to live on the moon when he was grown up would you launch into a big lecture about how it's highly unlikely? No.

Good answer.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

at that age, children believe that they can be anything that they want to. what an amazing way to see the world, as endless, boundless possibilities. if only we could keep that child-like optimism, that absolutely anything is possible. what a gift! your mother is completely out of line for squashing that incredible open-mindedness that your young son possesses.

i agree with other posters that have stated that it seems your son is expressing that he is identifying with the mommy ROLE, especially in light of your family situation in which your dh is away a lot. he perceives mommy-ness as a loving, steadfast, constant presence, and in his 3 year old grasp of language and emotion, that is the best way that he can convey not only how much you mean to him, but how HE wants to be. i think that is a compliment of the highest order and one of the sweetest most beautiful things i've ever heard of.

your mom is a buzzkill. besides, if she's getting hung up on the whole 'lie' aspect of it, then you can just tell her flat out that you don't want her to contribute to any santa claus/tooth fairy/easter bunny perpetuation...those are LIES, too but are somehow acceptable?







:

i'm sorry that it's sounding like you may not be able to trust your mother to maintain appropriate and necessary boundaries. this whole situation is a red flag to me, and it appears that you know that you've been duly warned by her behavior pertaining to this matter that she will not honor you as the mother of her grandson. how was.


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## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
i agree with other posters that have stated that it seems your son is expressing that he is identifying with the mommy ROLE, especially in light of your family situation in which your dh is away a lot. he perceives mommy-ness as a loving, steadfast, constant presence, and in his 3 year old grasp of language and emotion, that is the best way that he can convey not only how much you mean to him, but how HE wants to be. i think that is a compliment of the highest order and one of the sweetest most beautiful things i've ever heard of.

your mom is a buzzkill.

This pretty much sums up my take on it, too. (on both points







) Yes, it's true that he can't, without a lot of surgery and some feats of magic, become a "mommy", but heck there are plenty of "mommys" on this board who didn't give birth, so maybe even that's a stretch.
In the end, I have to agree with the pp's who have said "COME ON, he's three"! I don't see anything productive in squashing his dreams just because of biology. He'll get it later, let him be three.

You could start letting him know that "daddies" can be loving and cuddly and otherwise "mommy-ish". He doesn't have to adhere to the parenting role stereotypes. Other than that, I'd take it as a compliment and not worry about how your mom reacted.


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
at that age, children believe that they can be anything that they want to. what an amazing way to see the world, as endless, boundless possibilities. if only we could keep that child-like optimism, that absolutely anything is possible. what a gift! your mother is completely out of line for squashing that incredible open-mindedness that your young son possesses.

i agree with other posters that have stated that it seems your son is expressing that he is identifying with the mommy ROLE, especially in light of your family situation in which your dh is away a lot. he perceives mommy-ness as a loving, steadfast, constant presence, and in his 3 year old grasp of language and emotion, that is the best way that he can convey not only how much you mean to him, but how HE wants to be. i think that is a compliment of the highest order and one of the sweetest most beautiful things i've ever heard of.

your mom is a buzzkill. besides, if she's getting hung up on the whole 'lie' aspect of it, then you can just tell her flat out that you don't want her to contribute to any santa claus/tooth fairy/easter bunny perpetuation...those are LIES, too but are somehow acceptable?








:

i'm sorry that it's sounding like you may not be able to trust your mother to maintain appropriate and necessary boundaries. this whole situation is a red flag to me, and it appears that you know that you've been duly warned by her behavior pertaining to this matter that she will not honor you as the mother of her grandson. how was.

Very very good point! Actually, IMO, I think Santa/Toothfairy, etc, are MORE of a lie than telling him he can be a mommy when he grows up. Because he actually CAN be a mommy when he grows up, if he still wants to.

3 year olds are cute imaginative little things. I really don't see why this was such a big deal!

And woobysma, I disagree that a man has to have surgery to be considered female. You may have met a woman before who had a penis and didn't even know it. I'm sure it's rare, but there ARE men out there who dress and act like women WITHOUT surgery!


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## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221* 
And woobysma, I disagree that a man has to have surgery to be considered female. You may have met a woman before who had a penis and didn't even know it. I'm sure it's rare, but there ARE men out there who dress and act like women WITHOUT surgery!

I have met a few men who lived as women with and without surgery, yes. We could start a whole new thread on this, but the fact is that a male human can never become a female human. Following your heart and living as a certain gender does not give a male child the ability to grow up and give birth. That was my only point.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

I am mommy to two children. I only carried one. You can be a mommy without birthing.


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

I haven't read the other posts.

I would have just said that he can be a DADDY and hold his babies all day long if he wants to, as he is probably scared that being a Daddy = being away, it doesn't need to be that way, and I would have assured him of THAT. Daddy's can be nurturing and hands-on and loving, etc.... I'm not saying that your husband isn't those things, but he sees what he sees as a three yearold.

He actually can't be a mommy as he knows a mommy to be, so I would never say that to a boy, but, that doesn't mean that you can't be gentle and understand what it's like to be three years old. I think your Mom might have went a little overboard by calling it a "lie" - but I also don't equate it to Santa.... Santa isn't part of the development of the self, whereas Mommies and Daddies is.

I don't think telling him that he can be a Daddy but not a Mommy is putting your child into a gendered box, it's reality.... and that's okay. You can make sure that reality isn't harsh and scary without talking nonsense.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

OMG it is not nonsense. It is reality that a boy can grow up and be a mommy. Several posters on this thread know mommies that used to be little boys !


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
I haven't read the other posts.

I would have just said that he can be a DADDY and hold his babies all day long if he wants to, as he is probably scared that being a Daddy = being away, it doesn't need to be that way, and I would have assured him of THAT. Daddy's can be nurturing and hands-on and loving, etc.... I'm not saying that your husband isn't those things, but he sees what he sees as a three yearold.

He actually can't be a mommy as he knows a mommy to be, so I would never say that to a boy, but, that doesn't mean that you can't be gentle and understand what it's like to be three years old. I think your Mom might have went a little overboard by calling it a "lie" - but I also don't equate it to Santa.... Santa isn't part of the development of the self, whereas Mommies and Daddies is.

I don't think telling him that he can be a Daddy but not a Mommy is putting your child into a gendered box, it's reality.... and that's okay. You can make sure that reality isn't harsh and scary without talking nonsense.

There are several problems with this logic. First, the OP's little boy said that he wants to be a Mommy not because he wants to give birth but because he _knows_ mommies to be nurturing, soft, caring and *around*. In his viewpoint, daddies are missing for a good chunk of time. -Assuming that he misses Daddy, it is reasonable to think that he doesn't want to be a Daddy because he doesn't want his kids to miss him.







The OP can't just say "daddies can be around all the time too and you *must* be a daddy, not a mommy" and expect the 3 year old to say, "I understand mother, you are obviously correct". Little kids are very literal and need concrete examples. _Telling_ a child of that age won't be helpful, the child needs to be _shown_ an example of a daddy who stays at home. Especially when it is something that is troubling. In general, I don't have a problem with just explaining something to kids but it seems that this little one is trying to work out some feelings and he should be allowed to do it.

My other issue, others have pointed out, is mommies do not have to give birth to be a mom. And last, it seems like the people who are saying, _of course he can't be a mommy_ are doing so because they feel uncomfortable with a boy being called a mommy. This is because of gender roles. Maybe mommy should be redefined to be primary caregiver. Then the little boy could grow up to be a mommy and everyone is happy.


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

Are references to gender not allowed on MDC?? Is the title of the magazine this site is based on offensive because it is gender-specific?? Is it really "out there" for me to say that men are daddies and women are mommies?? I think not.

Sure, people who are born male or female can grow up to choose gender re-assignment. It happens. But that is so very rare that I can't really see the point of even factoring that into a discussion with a three year old little boy who obviously is close to his Mommy and might equate Daddy with "not being at home" or "not being there."

Thus, I said the OP could assure him that Daddies can be very close and nuturing and home and great and wonderful. I hope that fathering can be seen as just as nuturing and important as mothering.

Megan - I just saw your point of him being three and needing an example, very good point. Perhaps the OP has a friend who is a Dad and stays home? Maybe she could crash a playdate for stay at home Dads to show her son a real example? It sounds like it could be delicate though, one wouldn't want to make the boy feel worse that his Dad isn't around a lot, and one wouldn't want to make the Dad AND Mom feel worse about it.... but an example could help.

It's not crushing a three year old boy's imagination to tell him that he can be a wonderful Daddy.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

No, I think it's "out there" to insist that a three year-old should be corrected when he says he wants to grow up and be a mommy, for various reasons that (to him) have really very little to do with gender in the physical sense.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Again, no one is saying fathers can't be as nurturing as mothers.

So what if being transgendered is rare? It happens. There is nothing wrong with having a discussion about it, even with a 3 year old. Hell, it is more common than becoming president, but I don't think anyone here would ever tell their kid they couldn't be president because it is so rare.


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

So, "correcting" a three year old by saying that he could be a Daddy but not a Mommy is pointless and potentially confusing..... but explaining transgenderedness to a three year old is age-appropriate and would be understood?

I disagree.

Again, I don't think it's the end of the world to just let it slide with a little boy saying he wants to be a Mommy by not saying anything at all, but out-right *telling* him that he could be a Mommy is (except in the most extreme situations) incorrect and I think that could be confusing, and that's why I said what I would have done in in this situation.

Little kids are learning the basics when they are that age, and it's okay to be gentle and straight forward. It really sounds to me like he misses his Dad being around and needs to see that men and fathers can be primary care givers.

Edited to add: Yes, there is a difference between someone who is transgendered and someone who is President of the United States.

Someone who is transgendered just IS. You can't strive for it or try for it, you just are or you aren't and you would find out eventually, but it would be inevitable and still very rare.

Technically, EVERY American-born citizen has the CHANCE to become President by striving for it. Rare, yes, but it is something that can be attained, thus, it usually enters the "what I want to be when I grow up" discussions.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

You did nothing wrong, I think you provided a wonderful, loving and kind answer, just the kind of answer I would want my sons to give when they are grown up.









My four year old says all the time, "When I grow up and I'm a Mommy..." then sometimes he'll say, "When I grow up and I'm a Daddy...". He really has no understanding of gender roles - he even "nurses" his dolls even though he does seem to understand that Daddy doesn't have "real" nursies.

I don't correct him when he talks about growing up and being a Mommy and I would be angry if someone did. Your mother is totally out of line.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trinitty* 
So, "correcting" a three year old by saying that he could be a Daddy but not a Mommy is pointless and potentially confusing..... but explaining transgenderedness to a three year old is age-appropriate and would be understood?

Well considering my trhee year old understands transgenderedness at her level, yeah I do think it can be appropriate and understood.

Telling a child that he can be a daddy, but not a mommy is simply a lie, and not one I am willing to tell my child.


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

While you are at it, explain quantum mechanics to him. You wouldn't want him to be not aware of the complexity of the universe. You might scar him.


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## GoodWillHunter (Mar 14, 2003)

The word "mommy" is just that. It's a word. He can be a mommy a daddy a squirrel, a rabbit... My five year old son wants to be a ballerina. It's all words. Did I tell him that ballerina is a girl ballet dancer? Did I explain that he can't be a girl dancer? I don't really care. He can be anything he so desires. And so can your son. And, quite frankly, at age three, he has no concept of the adult meaning of the word "mommy." To him, a "mommy" is someone who stays in one place, a safe, secure person. He wants to be someone who doesn't leave home.

That's the impression I'm getting from the OP.


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## my3peanuts (Nov 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoodWillHunter* 
The word "mommy" is just that. It's a word. He can be a mommy a daddy a squirrel, a rabbit... My five year old son wants to be a ballerina. It's all words. Did I tell him that ballerina is a girl ballet dancer? Did I explain that he can't be a girl dancer? I don't really care. He can be anything he so desires. And so can your son. And, quite frankly, at age three, he has no concept of the adult meaning of the word "mommy." To him, a "mommy" is someone who stays in one place, a safe, secure person. He wants to be someone who doesn't leave home.

That's the impression I'm getting from the OP.

I agree!


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## Nikki98 (Sep 9, 2006)

Its amazing how this issue has taken such a turn. I do not think that it is beyond a three year to understand gender-I think we under estimate kids when we think they do not know the differences between boys and girls (they just may not know the _extent_ of these differences). So is telling him that he can being a loving, caring father as well really a bad thing? I feel at times we get caught up in the "wonder of childhood', that all reality is just tossed out the window. At what age do we let our kids in on the secret of "the real world".


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I might have missed a post, but I haven't seen anyone say that is bad to tell him that he could be a wonderful daddy.

If it were me, I would explain how he could be a daddy and do everything mommies do or he could be a mommy.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

I personally don't want my kids to have to be bogged down by "realities of the real World" any sooner then they absolutely need to, what's wrong with letting them be a kid with all the wonders of imagination that goes along with it?

Just yesterday morning my DS came to me picking the sesame seeds off his bagel and asked if we could go plant a bagel tree. At first I explained that bagels really don't grow on trees but then he came back with, "Well let's just plant them and see what happens." What a fabulous way to approach the World! I'm not about to crush his dream of a bagel tree with a bunch of reality. I might even plant a tree in the spring and put some mini bagels on it as suggested by a friend.


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## theatermom (Jun 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoodWillHunter* 
The word "mommy" is just that. It's a word. He can be a mommy a daddy a squirrel, a rabbit... My five year old son wants to be a ballerina. It's all words. Did I tell him that ballerina is a girl ballet dancer? Did I explain that he can't be a girl dancer? I don't really care. He can be anything he so desires. And so can your son. And, quite frankly, at age three, he has no concept of the adult meaning of the word "mommy." To him, a "mommy" is someone who stays in one place, a safe, secure person. He wants to be someone who doesn't leave home.

That's the impression I'm getting from the OP.

ITA!

He's three, he's expressing a feeling, and your mom is out of line. I think that you did the right thing. And, ya know, he didn't say that he wanted to be a woman (and there would nothing wrong with it if he had) -- he said that he wanted to be a mommy.

If he were older, say pre-teen or so, and still wanted to be a mom or a woman, then I would have the talk about transgender. At three, that's not what he's trying to express. Little ones have so few words at their disposal, that IMO it's unfair of adults to try to push our perspectives on them based on their choice of words.

Give your cutie a hug and keep an eye on your mom.


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## theatermom (Jun 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HelloKitty* 
I personally don't want my kids to have to be bogged down by "realities of the real World" any sooner then they absolutely need to, what's wrong with letting them be a kid with all the wonders of imagination that goes along with it?

Just yesterday morning my DS came to me picking the sesame seeds off his bagel and asked if we could go plant a bagel tree. At first I explained that bagels really don't grow on trees but then he came back with, "Well let's just plant them and see what happens." What a fabulous way to approach the World! I'm not about to crush his dream of a bagel tree with a bunch of reality. I might even plant a tree in the spring and put some mini bagels on it as suggested by a friend.










That's priceless! And what a wonderful perspective on life!


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## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)

This has been a very lively discussion







I think the OP's question has been adequately addressed thanks to all of you that cared enough to put in your 2cents.
This thread is now closed, but will remain on the board so it can be referenced.


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