# telling the difference between "overtired" and "undertired"



## jackson'smama (May 14, 2005)

my 9 month old ds is in a pattern of acting sleepy around 7pm (he starts rubbing his eyes and gets a little fussier), so we go to bed, nurse and he goes to sleep within about 10 minutes or so. i get up and all is good for about 30 minutes. then, he starts crying - usually with eyes closed - and rooting around. i go back, lie down, reinsert nipple. all is good. but then, it takes me longer to get away - like i might have to lie there at least 20 minutes and if i manage to get away this time, he'll sleep again no longer than 20-30 minutes. This is really starting to get to me as i have zero time without a child in a 24 hour period since i'm cosleeping next to one and possibly even two when older ds comes to our bed in the middle of the night. i'm worn out.
last night, ds did this, but then actually really woke up around 9:40. when he was nursing, he was "marching" on my legs, digging into me with his fingers and flailing around - off and on the nipple quite vigorously (and painfully). dh and i tried to just turn our backs and bore him to sleep, but he talked and made noises, tried to crawl over us, etc...obviously awake and nothing we did could get him to sleep until after midnight







:. he was happy - not crying or anything unless we were trying to do something he thought was sleep-inducing.
when he's doing this catnap thing in the evening do you think that's a sign of overtired or undertired? should he nap more in the day or less? what should his naptimes be?
btw, he usually gets up around 8 then naps for about 2 hours sometime between the hours of 10 and 2. on rare occasions, he'll get in a 30 minute nap later in the day too (like in the car or something).
please advise!


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## riomidwife (Sep 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jackson'smama* 
my 9 month old ds is in a pattern of acting sleepy around 7pm (he starts rubbing his eyes and gets a little fussier), so we go to bed, nurse and he goes to sleep within about 10 minutes or so. i get up and all is good for about 30 minutes. then, he starts crying - usually with eyes closed - and rooting around. i go back, lie down, reinsert nipple. all is good. but then, it takes me longer to get away - like i might have to lie there at least 20 minutes and if i manage to get away this time, he'll sleep again no longer than 20-30 minutes...... do you think that's a sign of overtired or undertired? should he nap more in the day or less? what should his naptimes be?

i don't think he's under-tired, if such a thing exists. if anything i'd say more napping or two regular naps might be helpful.

my almost 9 month old has a similar pattern. he used to wake up consistantly about 15-30 minutes after i put him down for the night, now it's about 40-60 minutes after i put him down. then he wakes again after another 60 minutes. then he might do a 1.5-2 hour stretch, but by that time i'm getting into bed and i often end up waking hime up---urgh!

but i think what your LO is doing is fairly typical, at least i've heard other mamas talk about this.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

He might be dropping his nap. So if you can get him to take two naps still, he might sleep better. If he only takes one nap, you could try to keep him up til 8 so he doesn't take a nap at 7pm.

Yesterday my 18 mo WOULD NOT TAKE A NAP. And he slept very fitfully b/c he was overtired. Next time I will take him in the car or let him nap at 4pm if that is what it takes b/c that was just nuts.

An audio book with headphones helps me relax during those long nursing sessions.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

dd did this and for us a later bedtime helped. anytime she went down before 8, she treated it like a nap & would be up till 10 or 11









her bedtime now is 9 or 930, and she usually wakes up once between that time and the time we go to bed (around 1130-midnight) but never like she did before...it's just nurse (or if dh goes in, cuddle) and right back down pretty much. she wakes up to nurse usually twice overnight with a wake-up time of 8 or 830.

and she takes 2 naps a day, anywhere from 45 minutes to 2.5 hours each. it varies widely.

but a caveat would be that for us, none of the normal sleep advice ever works. the more she naps, the worse she sleeps at night. the less she naps, usually the less she wakes at night. but i do not deprive her of naps because she gets fussy without them. in sum, the overtired=hard to put down, sleeps worse thing, or the sleep begets sleep principle, are both a crock for our baby!

so YMMV.


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