# Winter weather and car seats



## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

The weather here in Canada is already starting to get cooler, so my mind jumped to this topic yesterday. It isn't something I had to deal with last winter, as DS was in an infant seat and we just brought it into the house to keep it warm. But he's now in a convertible, and I'm honestly not sure what we're going to do come winter.

I know that children aren't supposed to wear their winter coats/snowsuits in their car seats, as this can provide less crash protection. But what do you do when it is -30 Celsuis (-22 Fahrenheit), you don't have a garage to keep the car warm, and the car is parked out in an apartment parking lot? Do I dress my son in his suit, go outside and start the car, wait for it to warm up, put my son in the car, take off his snowsuit and strap him in? I am thinking that this might be the only way to handle winter!

Does anyone have any tips/experience with a similar situation?


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## angie3096 (Apr 4, 2007)

I don't have to deal with -30 Celsius, but when it snows here, yes, that's what I do!
I start the car, get the heater going, put her in the snowsuit, take her out to the car, take the snowsuit off, strap her in, and then tuck blankets all around her, over her straps. I'm also going to ask my mom to make me one of these:
http://www.carseatponcho.com/


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## snitker79 (Apr 7, 2007)

Those are awesome!! I think I might try to make one myself for my dd.


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

I dress the kids in layers. They prefer it, as they are still warm and it's easier to move than in the bulky snowsuits. The danger isn't in keeping the kids warm, it's keeping them warm by making them wear poofy fibrefill.
I have a couple MEC fleece suits for DD (pricey, but check thrift shops) and DS wears a light jacket over a fleece vest. He also wears fleece or lined pants under rain pants, instead of poofy snow pants. Warm socks and hats are key, so they both wear wool socks and toques. They wear waterproof mittens though, as it is frustrating to throw snowballs in wool gloves.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I take the kids to the car, take their coats off, out them in the car, and then put their coats over them strapped in their car seat like a blanket. It only takes 5 minutes or so for the car to warm up and using their coat as a blanket is sufficiant until it warms up.

OT; where do you live that it is already getting colder??


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:

It only takes 5 minutes or so for the car to warm up and using their coat as a blanket is sufficiant until it warms up.
I live in the prairies & it takes alot longer than 5 minutes for the car to warm up in the middle of winter.

On the coldest days you can run your car for 20 minutes & it isn't even close to getting warm yet.

On the average temp days(-30 without the windchill, closer to -40 with it) after 15-20minutes the air is just going to lukewarm.

For me the carseat vs snowsuit is a matter of what is the bigger danger & here it is the temps. Fleece does not cut it. The chances of needing the safety of car seat straps is alot less than the risk of frostbite by being exposed.

Life doesn't stop here just because we have snow or are in frigid temps so we decided on which we felt was the worst of 2 evils.

-50 without windchill, schools are still open. I've lived here for 13 years & twice has anything closed due to the weather. The first time was 12years ago when I was in college & we had a bad storm coming through, some of the roads in town were closed yet not the buildings that you had to get to. The other time was last year, for the 2nd days the temps were below -50 with the windchill, we were in a blizzard. The schools were all still open. On the 2nd day the PO in Shoppers was closing at 3pm. Dh's work closed at noon due to so many people living out of town but his work took them all to the bar for dinner & drinks for the afternoon.lol The blizzard let up around 1pm.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

IN terms of weather protection, what is the difference between leaving the coats on or taking the coats on for a few seconds, strapping them in, and then putting the coats back on over top of them?

I also have to take my coat off to drive safely.


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I take the kids to the car, take their coats off, out them in the car, and then put their coats over them strapped in their car seat like a blanket. It only takes 5 minutes or so for the car to warm up and using their coat as a blanket is sufficiant until it warms up.

In Quebec, where temps routinely hit the -50s without the windchill, 5 minutes is NOT long enough to warm up the car. I find that even if your engine is warm, you really need to be driving the car for the interior temperature to get comfy. And since DS is still so little, it's hard to balance the two, since once the car does get warm, it's not like he'll be old enough to take the coat off from over him.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
OT; where do you live that it is already getting colder??

I live in southern Ontario, where a few nights this week it has been below 10. Which, in my opinion, is definitely getting colder!







But my parents are in Quebec, and have already had temps below freezing in the evenings. Since we visit them a lot, I wanted to be prepared with a strategy!


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Yikes. I think it only got to 13 at night where I live. I wasn't thinking about nights because when I read this it was so hot out, I thought I was going to be sick.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

This issue is important to me too because my now 14 year old cousin flew out of her car seat in an accident because of her coat. when she was 1. I also see it on the news pretty frequently, and winter driving is more dangerous.

I would like to know how long it would take for a person to get frostbite in even a cold car, which is protected from the wind, that is in the process of warming up.

I also don't see the difference in protection from having the coat on under the straps or having it on over the straps.


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## CarSeatPoncho (Jan 18, 2007)

Having a coat under the car seat's straps could definitely affect safety. When your baby wears a coat in the car seat, the harness may seem tight, but it really isn't. A winter coat might be thick, but it is really mostly fluffy insulation and air pockets. In a crash, your baby's body would be thrown forward, and all that fluff and air would be compressed into a thin layer, leaving a lot of extra space between your baby and the car seat -- much more than you would ever leave in normal circumstances. The harness is then too loose to properly restrain your baby, and in a split second, he or she could be thrown out of the car seat and potentially out of the car.

Here is safety test for coats and car seats from about.com:

This test will show you how thick the coat is and how much the coat will compress during the crash.

Take the car seat into the house.
Put the winter coat or snowsuit on the child.
Put the child in the car seat and buckle the harnesses as you normally would before car travel. Adjust the straps to the appropriate fit for your child.
Take the child out of the car seat without loosening the straps at all.
Take the coat off your child.
Put the child back in the car seat and buckle the harnesses again, but do not tighten the straps.
If you can fit more than two fingers under the harness at the child's shoulder bone, the coat is too thick and is not safe for use with the car seat.

http://babyproducts.about.com/od/car...ar+seat%20coat

hth!


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
I also don't see the difference in protection from having the coat on under the straps or having it on over the straps.

Are you referring to protection from the cold? As far as I can tell, there wouldn't be any real difference in protection whether they were wearing their coat under their straps or over their straps. But if you want them to have it on over the straps, it still means taking the coat off the child for at least a little bit, when the temperature in the car could be well below freezing.

Again, for an older child even that likely wouldn't phase me, but DS will only be barely 1. And I worry that if he gets chilly he'll have a hard time getting warm again, KWIM?


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

I have thought about this a great deal. It can get very very cold where I live. More than once I have been in a situation where the car would not warm up without driving and there is no "indoors" to go to. Like the time two winters ago when dd and I flew into our airport at midnight. The parking lot is a wind-swept tundra and they lock the doors of the airport after the last person leaves our tiny airstrip. It was about -20 degrees outside and our car would barely stay running, let alone get warm. We strapped dd down as tight as we could with her snowsuit on. To have taken her out would have been very very stupid. Sometimes you have to pick your battles.

For day to day drives, I dress her in a light jacket and throw a blanket over her after the straps are on. I have a blanket that I keep in the house and bring out for each trip. It stays pretty warm if I move fast enough. The sun on the car usually keeps it warm enough for daytime parking lot fun. For night stuff, I haul the blanket in with me wherever I am going. And "night" starts at 5pm in the winter around here.


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

We're in the far northwest of Ontario and this past winter was our first here. We had two months of straight -40 to -50 and then on and off from -25 to -40 for another almost three months. All in all, winter lasted eight months and it is dark at 4pm here, so no sun to keep the van a few degrees warmer. We were told that in those temps, you can't feel frostbite, and people have had to be airlifted out for medical assistance because they didn't know their skin was turning black. I was told that by the nurse after she found out I had taken our dc outside for 20 minutes when it was -18, fully and warmly dressed. She said it didn't matter that they were dressed because any part of their skin that was exposed to the very dry air, would begin to freeze immediately, which it had, but I couldn't tell until we were inside and they had a hard layer of scratchy red skin for weeks following, and I learned my lesson. I actually had no idea it was that cold; it didn't feel that cold at all to me, and that's compared with the humid winters I am accustomed to in the south.

Soooo, exposure is definitely the more dangerous situation; in-town, we dress up and strap tightly. In-town, we never drive far enough for the van to warm up even a little bit since we can go from one side to the other twice in under five minutes. For our once/month out-of-town trip, we dress in autumn jackets with sweatshirts, hats, mittens, boots, and blankets, and then make periodic stops within the first hour to undress to just a few layers of indoor clothing. We still have over four hours to go at that point, so it does warm up sufficiently.

Admittedly, I do feel nervous with dc dressed up in puffy clothes, but if we must go out, it seems the safer of the two options. That and in-town, in the past year, there has only been one collision and it was a truck with a guard rail, in the spring. As far as we've been told by the OPP, two-car collisions are so rare that none of the current officers has witnessed one and the last one with a fatality was something like 20 years ago. Big animals on the road are what concern me most, though, so I don't take carseat wearing lightly.

Besides this, with an infant seat, it can be carried indoors and kept warm. Larger seats stay in the vehicle and become so cold that sometimes the seat belt latches won't work at all and we have to stay home. Granted, we did stay inside unless we absolutely had to go out when it was that cold, and then if the belts didn't work, we didn't go. We considered ourselves 'weathered-in.'

This is the difficulty with wearing less than adequate clothing- the dc freeze, literally. I looked at the ponchoes; there is just no way those would be adequate for this climate. Maybe if they were made of layers of dense, felted wool with a skin cover, but then we're back to too much covering and then there's nothing protecting the child's back from the frozen seat- their organs would freeze!

The only solution we've come up with for that situation is not to leave. No fun, but at least it's safe in the house... This seems to be the consensus amongst families here. Lucky for us, there's not really anywhere to go







.


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## Tilia (Nov 18, 2006)

This topic came up last winter, and a lot of people use a heating pack such as a bag of rice in a sock. You heat it in the microwave for a couple minutes, then use it to warm up the carseat and keep DC warm!

http://womenshealth.about.com/cs/cra...heatingpad.htm

They are not recommended for children, so you have to use them responsibly and make sure its not too hot. You can use the other sock as a washable cover.


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## intorainbowz (Aug 16, 2006)

Just an FYI, Where I live it is illegal to warm up a car without someone there watching it. In the house is not ok. Sucks, but so many cars have gotten stolen.


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## amityfree (Jul 23, 2005)

For my kids, I use a lightweight fleece snowsuit plus a blanket over the top of their carseats once they're strapped in. We don't even warm up our car (I was informed that it doesn't make a difference in performance, plus running it while not in use isn't the best for the environment). No toes have been frozen yet.


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## Novella (Nov 8, 2006)

OP, I hear your concerns emphatically! Have struggled with the same problem myself and I'm afraid I don't have many good answers for you.

To those who wonder how a coat put over a child's body once in the carseat is any less protection than a coat on a child's body underneath the carseat harness, it *most certainly is*!

Some of each winter here is so cold that your car tires get hard flattened bottoms when parked. You actually feel these harsh bumps for a while once you start driving - until the tires warm up.

A carseat that is permanently mounted in your vehicle in this type of climate is pretty darn cold for a pretty long time - even as a vehicle warms up after 10-20 minutes of driving (yes, that's *not* _idling_!)

I'm not much a "coddling-type" mother, but even for me, sticking small children into seats that cold without warm winter clothing all around their little bodies is not kind/practical/appropriate etc for the winter weather we experience.

The best solution I have found is to use carseats that have the instant-adjust strap that lengthens or shortens the harness using a center-pull. I have found that some of these work quite poorly (eg. Britax) such that a parent is not inclined to use them on every entry-exit (thus defeating their purpose). But others I have work very smoothly. Even in a down snowsuit, we are able to cinch that child in very tightly. Relatives complain that the kids look like they are in pain. But our kids are comfy and it's just the down of the snowsuit that is being compressed.

I understand the point about inadequetely-tight harnesses and I see the warnings in the carseat manuals that parents should remove bulky jackets when strapping kids in. I have always considered those statements as CYA for the manufacturers, more than they are practical advice for the use of carseats.


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## skaterbabs (Jul 31, 2005)

That would be a very dangerous assumption to make. Have you ever seen the commercials for the Space Bags? In a crash, a child's puffy coat will work exactly the same way.

All the space taken up by the coat will compress and the child can be ejected.

The test is this: Buckle your child into the car seat as usual. Tighten the harnes, etc. Then, WITHOUT LOOSENING THE HARNESS, remove your child from the seat. Take off the coat and rebuckle the harness. Can you pinch a fold horizontally in the harness without retightening it? If so, the coat is too bulky and places your child at risk for ejection. At that point, being warm is not your major concern.

Practical choices are felted wool or fleece jackets and pants. Wool (as many of you already know) is also waterproof. You can use heavy fleece or wool blankets that can be taken inside as needed to warm up.

But if you have to loosen your child's harness for the coat to fit, you need to use a different coat.


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## Prairiemother (Feb 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skaterbabs* 
The test is this: Buckle your child into the car seat as usual. Tighten the harnes, etc. Then, WITHOUT LOOSENING THE HARNESS, remove your child from the seat. Take off the coat and rebuckle the harness. Can you pinch a fold horizontally in the harness without retightening it? If so, the coat is too bulky and places your child at risk for ejection. At that point, being warm is not your major concern.

Practical choices are felted wool or fleece jackets and pants. Wool (as many of you already know) is also waterproof. You can use heavy fleece or wool blankets that can be taken inside as needed to warm up.

But if you have to loosen your child's harness for the coat to fit, you need to use a different coat.

Hi - do you know something about this professionally? That test you suggest sounds like a good idea. Commons sense, really, but I don't seem to have a lot of that lately. What I am wondering is how much does the slippery factor contribute to the danger? That is, are Fall jackets safe - the fleece-lined windbreaker types. If they are, then what I thought might work (I'm in Edmonton so I know a little about cold winters though maybe not as much as some!) is to use a Fall jacket with heavy accessories and heavy thick (maybe fleece on one side, and wind-protection on the other?) blankets that come out to the car with the children. BTW when I had small babies I used to strap a carrier on my front in the car and then pop a baby inside and zip my parka over top, with just their face sticking out.


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

The guideline of not having to adjust the harness is what we were taught in CRST class.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/child...00401/menu.htm is the official Transport Canada warning about poofy snowsuits, Bundle Mes, etc.
With DS, I used a light fall jacket, a fleece vest inside, long johns, fleece pants under rain pants etc. For babies/toddlers the fleece onesies from MEC provide an excellent, thin insulating layer.
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_d...=1188231623426
They also sell overalls, coats and one-piece snowsuits that provide excellent layers. For those who find MEC retail prices a bit high (like me!) outdoorgearswap.com is a great resource for getting good, second hand stuff.
I have had poofy fibrefill coats, and well-made fleece coats. The fibrefill ones are *absolutely no warmer* than a good fleece coat. Now, it should be noted that I am not talking about good down/wool/fur/natural fiber coats. I am just comparing the sort of snowsuits you can get for under, say, $100 from Sears


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Throkmorton* 
The guideline of not having to adjust the harness is what we were taught in CRST class.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/child...00401/menu.htm is the official Transport Canada warning about poofy snowsuits, Bundle Mes, etc.
With DS, I used a light fall jacket, a fleece vest inside, long johns, fleece pants under rain pants etc. For babies/toddlers the fleece onesies from MEC provide an excellent, thin insulating layer.
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_d...=1188231623426
They also sell overalls, coats and one-piece snowsuits that provide excellent layers. For those who find MEC retail prices a bit high (like me!) outdoorgearswap.com is a great resource for getting good, second hand stuff.
I have had poofy fibrefill coats, and well-made fleece coats. The fibrefill ones are *absolutely no warmer* than a good fleece coat. Now, it should be noted that I am not talking about good down/wool/fur/natural fiber coats. I am just comparing the sort of snowsuits you can get for under, say, $100 from Sears

Yep, I got DS an Ursus fleece jacket and pants from MEC that I will use on a lot of days as his outer layer, with comfy, natural fiber layers underneath. But for days when it hits -30, he'll be in his pricey (gift!), really warm poofy suit. I'll just have to practice a system for warming up the car enough to be able to take it off him before strapping him into his Marathon.


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## skaterbabs (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Prairiemother* 
Hi - do you know something about this professionally? That test you suggest sounds like a good idea. Commons sense, really, but I don't seem to have a lot of that lately. What I am wondering is how much does the slippery factor contribute to the danger? That is, are Fall jackets safe - the fleece-lined windbreaker types. If they are, then what I thought might work (I'm in Edmonton so I know a little about cold winters though maybe not as much as some!) is to use a Fall jacket with heavy accessories and heavy thick (maybe fleece on one side, and wind-protection on the other?) blankets that come out to the car with the children. BTW when I had small babies I used to strap a carrier on my front in the car and then pop a baby inside and zip my parka over top, with just their face sticking out.

I've been a Child Passenger Safety Technician since 2005, so I guess you could call me a professional.









I'm of two minds with the slippery windbreaker type. For my own daughter, I found that the harness needs to be looser with that kind than without, so I prefer just fleece and then we keep fleece blankets in the car so she and her brothers can just cover up when they get cold. My boys wear their coats to the car, buckle into their boosters and then cover up with their coats like they're blankets.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Throkmorton* 
The guideline of not having to adjust the harness is what we were taught in CRST class.

I wasn't taught the test in my class (just to avoid the bulky clothing and coats), but I don't live in a particularly cold climate.







It's something my Technician colleagues & friends who do deal with those kinds of temps taught, because it's extra important that a child not be ejected during a crash when the wind chill is -30*. That child will freeze in minutes, assuming s/he survives the crash. Either way, there's no chance for that kid. At least here, if by some miracle the child survives ejection, they're probably not going to freeze to death in the ten minutes it takes for emergency crews to arrive.

I know parents in colder climates worry about their children suffering injuries form the cold, but the danger from the cold is nothing compared to the danger of ejection.


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skaterbabs* 

I wasn't taught the test in my class (just to avoid the bulky clothing and coats), but I don't live in a particularly cold climate.










It was just mentioned as an aside in my class.

I actually use an Ursus suit as an inner layer on cold days. Of course, my kids *hate* the poofy suits. i tried to put DD in one when we walked to the school last winter, and she just screamed the whole way. I took it as a hint.


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## angelcat (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skaterbabs* 
That would be a very dangerous assumption to make. Have you ever seen the commercials for the Space Bags? In a crash, a child's puffy coat will work exactly the same way.

All the space taken up by the coat will compress and the child can be ejected.

The test is this: Buckle your child into the car seat as usual. Tighten the harnes, etc. Then, WITHOUT LOOSENING THE HARNESS, remove your child from the seat. Take off the coat and rebuckle the harness. Can you pinch a fold horizontally in the harness without retightening it? If so, the coat is too bulky and places your child at risk for ejection. At that point, being warm is not your major concern.

Practical choices are felted wool or fleece jackets and pants. Wool (as many of you already know) is also waterproof. You can use heavy fleece or wool blankets that can be taken inside as needed to warm up.

But if you have to loosen your child's harness for the coat to fit, you need to use a different coat.

That's how I checked it, so I know I am doing it up tight enough ov4er her winter clothes. Most of the time, it's also not a heavy coat.

I pretty much always have to loosen the straps to do up, then tighten them up tight again. Over any clothes.

It is really hard to get tight enough over a heavy coat, but it is possible. (at least with my one carseat-my spare carseat isn't as user friendly). Oh, and of course it'll be a different coat this winter, so I"ll have to test it out again.

For more than short car trip, i put her in a lighter coat, and wrap a blanket around for trip to car-she'd be way too hot in a snowsuit for anything more than a few minutes.


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

I live in Buffalo, NY where we have relatively mild winters but with notoriously nasty precipitation and a couple of bad storms a season. We are in the USDA zone 5 or so, with average minimum temperatures somewhere around -25C, so that's a whole other world from where some of you posters are living, I realize.

I just wanted to put in a plug for wool outer-layers in the car (I'm not a fleece-lover.) I have found that heavy, slightly oversized sweaters with a thicker knit pattern like a cable knit do a fantastic job of keeping body heat in for trips out in the car, and they can be safely installed in the carseat. DD wore one from LL Bean last year (it is heavier than it looks in the photo, and very soft): http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/sto...=Bright%20Navy

over her already layered clothes and when I would go back and pick her up she would be literally warm to the touch on my hands.

On the bottom, she often wears wool longjohns and only puts on pants to go out. If anyone is looking for wool underlayers for babies and toddlers, they have some at http://www.nordicwoollens.com/ and http://www.atoygarden.com/index.cfm?...category_id=81

Just a note for people in somewhat milder climates: wool for in the carseat rocks!


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## Prairiemother (Feb 4, 2005)

Everyone has great suggestions. Thank you Skaterbabs and Throkmorton for the tips. I'm glad I saw this thread. I'll check out MEC and also LLBean. And I'll read the Transport Canada site. And pass it on to my friends!


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## snitker79 (Apr 7, 2007)

What is MEC?


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snitker79* 
What is MEC?

Mountain Equipment Co-OP


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## skaterbabs (Jul 31, 2005)

Wool just rocks in general. lol I practically cried







when my DD started violently refusing to wear her wool longies. I've been searching for affordable wool tights for myself for years.


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

Yep, wool is great, if pricey.







a sure bet to keep kids warm. Alpaca even warmer, 7x warmer than wool, apparently. The kids have alpaca socks and toques this year.


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## snitker79 (Apr 7, 2007)

What type of fabric is Alpaca? and what makes it warmer than wool?


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I don't know what makes it warmer, but it is the fleece fibers of teh alpaca.


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skaterbabs* 
I know parents in colder climates worry about their children suffering injuries form the cold, but the danger from the cold is nothing compared to the danger of ejection.


In the far north where we live, the danger from cold by far outweighs any danger from ejection statistically and logically since it is -40 to -50 without account for the windchill for four months straight; for two months on either end of those four deep-freeze months, the temps are never higher than -25, again, we don't even talk about windchill up here although we happen to live in a very windy spot- so windy that we are going to be a test community for wind turbine electricity generation (yay!) so wind is definitely a contributor to the decisions we make during those cold months even though it is not reported.

Here, there is a vehicle collision or accident requiring a report about once every three or four years. To my mind, the risk of daily frostbite (some days it's zero seconds exposure and others maybe five seconds and it takes a LOT longer than that to warm up the van!) is far greater than the risk of ejection from an accident. I have already shared that our default is to consider ourselves weathered-in rather than put the children in puffy clothes in their carseats, but I thought I would share this with you since I think it's a valid stance for parents to consider the cold a greater risk factor than ejection in the sorts of communities that deal with the type of cold where the risk analysis is actually in favour of the puffy suit (although I know everyone would do whatever possible to minimise _that_ risk).

Also, while an ejected child would not likely survive this climate during the deep freeze, an under-dressed one strapped into an over-turned van wouldn't either since it would take much longer for emergency crews to arrive, assess and evacuate passengers than it would for the van to cool down to near or actual outside temps. If the parents were unconscious, they wouldn't have a chance either, so I guess that my point is that we do have to consider proper dress more important than car seat safety ultimately, in most situations during the winter.

A solution would be so simple, but I'm not a manufacturer, so we go without. It would not be difficult to make a removable, insulated insert that can be taken inside when the seat is not in use and that would protect children from the cold of their plastic seats. THEN it would be fine to have them go in with a few layers of woolies and blankets because their vital organs would be warm from the back. I wish someone would make that- not just a fabric insert, but a whole thin seat attachment meant to seperate from and reattach to the car seat. Hmm...


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PreggieUBA2C* 
A solution would be so simple, but I'm not a manufacturer, so we go without. It would not be difficult to make a removable, insulated insert that can be taken inside when the seat is not in use and that would protect children from the cold of their plastic seats. THEN it would be fine to have them go in with a few layers of woolies and blankets because their vital organs would be warm from the back. I wish someone would make that- not just a fabric insert, but a whole thin seat attachment meant to seperate from and reattach to the car seat. Hmm...

Oooooh! What a fantastic idea! That would be so great on days when it is -50 without the windchill and just staying at home isn't an option.

I wonder what people in Scandinavian countries do? Don't they have crazy cold AND excellent car seat laws? Maybe they all have indoor parking.


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## Throkmorton (Jun 30, 2003)

You can get ice packs that keep the car seat cool in warm climates. Theoretically, wouldn't it be nice if someone would make a heater? I wonder if a hot water bottle, tossed in the car seat when/if you go outside to warm the car up would be a solution for some?
Sort of the opposite of this: http://www.babydagny.com/product.aspx?pId=176

Ok, here is a better explanation. If only someone could make this: http://www.stokeseeds.com/cgi-bin/St...uct/View/HF417 that could be plugged in to a cigarette lighter and then laid in the car seat for a couple minutes (it doesn't get very hot, just warm)


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## InaX5 (Aug 8, 2007)

As another Mom surviving Canada's winters I gotta say thanks for the wool suggestions. i may make something out of trade wool, cause 1. I didn't know my dc's were not supposed to wear their snowsuits in the car seats & 2. It's too cold not to wear them.

Agreed, the manufacturers of snow suits & car seats have got to get together on this.


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## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

How about a regular drugstore heating pad and an inverter from Radio Shack (or whatever similar store ya'll have up there in the Great White North







)? You could go start the car, plug in the heating pad and lay it in the seat, cover it all with a blanket, and go back in the house for 10 minutes.

Seriously, I don't know if it would work or not. The amount of energy to be absorbed by such a huge hunk of -50 degree plastic plus the surrounding air is surely tremendous. But it's worth a try, no?


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## skaterbabs (Jul 31, 2005)

Actually there are car blankets available the plug into the cigarette lighter of your vehicle. http://www.heatedcarblanket.com is one of many.

Generaly speaking, people *don't* survive ejection, so the risk of freezing to death is moot.


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skaterbabs* 
Generaly speaking, people *don't* survive ejection, so the risk of freezing to death is moot.

Right, but as I wrote in my post, for those of us with serious safety concerns related to very cold climates, the likelihood of even being involved in a situation that would precipitate ejection from the vehicle is so so remote that freezing to death _is the real, and even daily, risk involved with taking young children outside at all._ There are some months when we can literally count on one hand the amount of passing vehicles we've seen during a four-hour drive. We do have lots of trees and moose and bears, so it's much more likely that we would hit one of those than another vehicle, but even the incidence of those types of collisions is exceedingly rare since nobody travels the highways at dusk when the animals are out (unless they're unaware or desperate) and driving up here is a different experience altogether that necessitates an increase of skill and awareness that reduces/prevents the most common reasons for accidents in the first place.

I realise that the majority of people do not live in this sort of situation, but I did want to make clear that ejection from a carseat is not always the greater risk to the child in it. Even strapping the littles in is dangerous! Dh and I open our door, run the littles into the van, and then take our mittens off to attach their belts- we have to take a break between sides of each belt because our skin starts to harden right away. This year will be easier because two of our littles will be using the shoulder belts instead. They cannot be put in their seats with a few light layers and hats and mitts and expected to be safely warm!!!

An electric blanket would have to be mighty sturdy to handle warming up a carseat here. The other thing is that we have three stationary seats right now in a van and they are all spread out. That and we have one lighter. Our 1/2" thick cord for plugging in our heater block for the engine is stiff to stick straight (and it's 25 ft long) within a few minutes of being outside. The first cord we tried just couldn't do the job and it was a heavy duty one, so we had to buy a super-duper heavy duty one to plug in, and even then, there were several days last winter when it didn't keep the engine warm enough to start in the morning. That doesn't bode well for the electric blanket for us...

Car seats are a pretty major frustration for us sometimes. I really have to think some more about what I can do to make this winter easier. I guess with the two older ones having the 5-point harness removed, I could take out the fabric/foam insert and replace it with a wool one. There is a shop that ships those up here on order. I could keep the wool insert indoors and maybe throw them in the dryer for a few minutes just before we leave. Our newborn's seat will be inside anyway, but our ds3 will still need the harness and his seat is stationary. Hmmm...


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## PreggieUBA2C (Mar 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lemurmommies* 
Maybe they all have indoor parking.









I was seriously shocked when I discovered upon moving here that very few homes have garages and also that for the few who do have garages, they don't put their cars, vans and trucks in them! Granted, they probably have to put their boats, atv's, snow machines and dirt bikes in there... doesn't leave much room, I suppose









We don't have any other vehicle than our van; I'd looooove a garage!

I just had another idea! It is very very sunny during the winter, so we could build a car-port that mimics some aspects of a solar oven. Then the van wouldn't become as cold. It would still be cold, but maybe not _as_ cold. I guess the other problem is the long period of time during which we only see the sun from 8am to 3pm. That might not be long enough to warm up the 'solar van oven.' Still, it might be worth a try. Maybe we need to be considering a VAN blanket!!!









Still thinking...


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