# We don't accept children



## saskiaofthewoods (Mar 27, 2007)

I am sorry if my words seem somehow hard. While I am writing this I am still mad as hell (see what I am saying?)

My husband is currently deployed to Afghanistan and before that he was in training 6 months and then we were living at different places as well. The point is, we have not seen each other often since we are married. But we managed to have a baby together 

Anyway, now that he will come home soon I thought a nice surprise for him would be to take a long weekend off and go to Memphis. My husband is a big Elvis fan. Of course we would want to take our 15 months old babyman with us.

Now I was trying to find some nicelooking bed and breakfast or guesthouses. I found one, too. I wrote them and you know what? They wrote us

"We would love to have you as our guests. However, we do not accept children!"

Not accept children? Where are we? Not accept...like we do not accept VISA or what? They are not things. They are humans, too. Maybe even better humans than most adults. And they are a part of a family as well. They could have at least said that they do not want children in their house. Still hard to understand for me, but to say we do not ACCEPT them. ARRRRR!









I wrote them back asking if that was some sort of bad joke and they got really mad at me for this remark







.

"It is not unusual for small guesthouses to not accept children!"

Well, now I know, too. But it should!

Even if I would not be a mom I would NEVER EVER spend my money or time in a place where they do not respect children as much as adults. Everybody should be treated the same!

Okay, I am still mad! You have probably noticed.

On the website of this guesthouse it did not say by the way that they do not accept children. That makes me really really mad! I took some time to ask them a nice email. I could have done something better with my time. And even worse, if I would not be a mommy yet, I might have spend my time and money there not even knowing that they do not show children the respect they deserve.

O well. I am still mad but I feel a bit better now that I have told you girls.







So thank you for letting me get this out of my system!

Merry Christmas to all fo you !


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## asianyoushi (Dec 7, 2007)

hugs sorry they were a bit rude in their replies... most people think bed and breakfast as a couples retreat... so i would have totally assumed kids werent allowed..


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## Peppermint Leaf (Jan 11, 2008)

Yes, we found this out years ago ... we used to go to them pre-ds ... when we tried to look for one afterwards ... no luck.

you will find almost all of them are not child friendly.

We learned to like hotels


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

That's really common for B&Bs, but they could have been nicer about it.


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## Caneel (Jun 13, 2007)

It is frustrating, especially because you have been seperated!

We ran into the same problem when planning a vacation to the Eastern Shore of Maryland. To add insult, nearly everyplace allowed dogs but not kids!

I called so many places, at least 15 and got the same response, no kids. ok, thanks anyway.

What was interesting was the lectures and unsolicited ass-vice the inn keepers gave me.

Along the lines of "you should be getting a sitter. don't you think your husband would prefer to be alone? why would you want to bring your kid along?" Unbelievalbe! It was like they were personally offended at the thought of parents vacationing with their children.

I hope you can find a family friendly place.


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asianyoushi* 
hugs sorry they were a bit rude in their replies... most people think bed and breakfast as a couples retreat... so i would have totally assumed kids werent allowed..









: for the rudeness they treated you with.

Most bed and breakfast places are considered couple resorts and do not allow children on the premises. They gear their business to couples.

They could have been a little bit professional and polite though.


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## saskiaofthewoods (Mar 27, 2007)

O well. I guess I have not been in the States long enough yet to be used to that. I thought they all would allow children.

I mean, okay, it is their house and they can allow who they want, but then they should have to state that BIG on their homepage so you do not even bother to write them. And of course because like I said I would never ever want to spend my money on places like this.

And for my husband... He did not see Morvryn in the whole 1st year. He would not want to spend time without him. He knows I would never do that anyway. I could not enjoy time away from my son. That would be a nightmare!

I just hope we can find something nice now though. It is sooo hard. I did not think it would get so hard. They should have those guesthouses listed in different categories so you know right away. Family friendly and children-haters







. Sorry, had to say it!


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## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

I also have discovered that many B&Bs don't allow children, so I'm not too surprised. Have you tried googling for "child-friendly bed and breakfast"?


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

they should put it on their website. when dh's cousin got married last summer in a really quickly planned ceremony on an island, I had a HELL of a time finding a b&b that allowed a child. BUT...when I did find them, they were great! they gave us a private cottage at the same rate as the cheap room we originally booked and we ended up staying longer than planned. so just hang in there.

personally, I do understand the need for adults only accomodations. I love my child, but I don't always love everyone else's kids, and not all parents seem to understand that...


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## HomeBirthMommy (Mar 15, 2003)

We have found some B&B's that allow children, but most are certainly not kid places. They are often decorated with antiques and breakables. They also are not particularly sound-proof, since they are just houses. As much as I love my children, I would not want to hear anybody else's kids if I were on a romantic B&B getaway with my husband, yk?

We found a great house to rent for a weekend in Memphis by searching on VRBO.com.


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## FeminineFigure (Oct 3, 2008)

Honestly, I don't think their reply was rude, just to the point.

I understand your frustration, but I completely understand the policy. Like others said, I would hate to be on a romantic getaway and hear screaming kids next to us...that's the kind of place you often pick for a romantic getaway because of the very fact that they usually do not accept children.

I have also been to adult-only resorts, and it is a nice break to be able to sit around a pool without kids running around. I love kids, but sometimes adult time is much appreciated.

And again, many b&b have antiques, collectables, breakables, fancy furniture, so even if your kids are perfect and wouldn't touch any of those things, I can definitely see that many of those places are not kid-friendly.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

A lot of B&B's don't. We went to NS with my first when he was about 8 months. We love B&Bs and took him with us. We did find two that allowed children, one being our favourite, which was great. But really in the end, they weren't really set up for kids. I don't expect a B&B to be kid friendly, unless they actually have kids. It's a lot of extra stuff and gear for them to make it kid friendly, and considering it's often a mom and pop type business, I'm willing to cut them a little slack. One of my favourite places to stay now is at a Delta hotel which has a family suite, with a small kitchen, lots of space and a separate bedroom so I can put the kids down and we can relax in the living space. Not quite the B&B feel, but a lot easier on me.


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## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

I'd search for a condo or something. B&B's really aren't kid friendly at all. Dh and I have stayed at a few both pre and post kids, and none were set up for kids.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

I didn't mean it, just meant I'd be temped to ask in the moment when I was angry with them, as in seeing it as just another form of discrimination.


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## stickywicket67 (Jan 23, 2007)

op-

are you from Europe? i think that maybe you are used to the concept of B&B in a more European context?

i know in England it's more family oriented and less expensive to stay in a B&B. it used to be anyway...

in America B&Bs are considered chi chi foo foo expensive romantic couples getaway places.

shame though 'cause i think it's nicer the other way.

i mean who wants to get busy with the dh when right next door is the host and hostess!!?? that's just weird.

sorry they were not accepting of kids. i think it's just a cultural difference though.

i've always thought it would be nice to have a real B&B where i live. one where there is a big main room with books and puzzles and musical instruments and a fireplace and bikes to take to the beach and kids are welcome and it's a reasonably priced family friendly alternative to a boring hotel. hmmmm. maybe in my next career...


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## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

I can understand your frustration, and they could have been more polite, but it doesn't mean they are child-haters.

Some businesses just aren't geared towards kids. Others are. And there's nothing wrong with that.


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## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frontierpsych* 
I didn't mean it, just meant I'd be temped to ask in the moment when I was angry with them, as in seeing it as just another form of discrimination.

See... I just don't see it as discrimination. The business is geared for couples on romantic getaways without kids. I just don't think EVERYTHING must be child-friendly.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Really weird. We've stayed in 3 different B&B's and every one welcomed our kids.









I can see why they wouldn't, but they could have been a touch more polite.

Sorry OP!


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## Freefromitall (Sep 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bri276* 

personally, I do understand the need for adults only accomodations. I love my child, but I don't always love everyone else's kids, and not all parents seem to understand that...









ITA...and I'll leave it at that to avoid to many flames


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

I don't see anything wrong with their policy or with their response.









And seriously? We could really do without equating racism with people preferring grown up time at their b&b's.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

I don't think they were rude, and I wouldn't have a probelm with it. And I respect and love my kids VERY much and do treat them as equals, absolutely. But they are not little adults-- they do break things and they can be quite loud!







Disruptive and destructive, God bless them! So, that's why I agree with the followign posts:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HomeBirthMommy* 
They are often decorated with antiques and breakables. They also are not particularly sound-proof, since they are just houses. As much as I love my children, I would not want to hear anybody else's kids if I were on a romantic B&B getaway with my husband, yk?









:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FeminineFigure* 
Honestly, I don't think their reply was rude, just to the point.

I understand your frustration, but I completely understand the policy. Like others said, I would hate to be on a romantic getaway and hear screaming kids next to us...that's the kind of place you often pick for a romantic getaway because of the very fact that they usually do not accept children.

<snip>

And again, many b&b have antiques, collectables, breakables, fancy furniture, so even if your kids are perfect and wouldn't touch any of those things, I can definitely see that many of those places are not kid-friendly.

And again







:


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frontierpsych* 
I didn't mean it, just meant I'd be temped to ask in the moment when I was angry with them, as in seeing it as just another form of discrimination.

So Toys R Us discriminates against adults because they gear their business to children? It's not discrimination, it's gearing a personal business to an industry with a demand for it. Simple economics.


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## MadameXCupcake (Dec 14, 2007)

I know some accept children! One of my favorite trips growing up was to a B&B in Pa near the Amish country. I remember it having the most amazing and largest play house I have ever seen that had the cutest play kitchen, little dining room and even a loft! The owner even let us milk a cow!!

You can find one I'm sure.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

A lot of B&B's and guest houses have antiques and the setup is different than a hotel where it wouldn't be conducive for children.

To be honest, I would seek out a kid-free place like that for a romantic weekend w/ DH. I think the policy is fine.


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## Ruthie's momma (May 2, 2008)

Sorry to hear about the way you were treated







:. Unlike PPs, I have found B&Bs to be child friendly. Maybe it is a regional thing? We are out West...where most everyone tends to love kids and dogs!!!









DH and I have always enjoyed staying at B&Bs! Since DD was born, we have continued to enjoy them. We have stayed in a variety of B&Bs in a lot of different locations:

*Breckenridge, Colorado
*Telluride, Colorado
*Santa Fe, New Mexico
*Cambria, California
*San Luis Obispo, California
*Santa Barbara, California

Every time, our daughter has been greeted with open arms. In fact, we have gotten special treatment! One place laid out an assortment of bath toys in the bathroom for DD while other places have provided a small box of toys! Every place supplied special bedding and a crib or little bed, as well as baby or toddler friendly food. Diaper service has been arranged for us, too.

I understand that B&Bs tend to be geared towards adults (DD has always been the only child in the house...but, the inn keepers seemed to have things ready to go for any child). Plus, DD lives amongst antiques, artwork, and nice furnishings at home. For a B&B to exclude little ones based upon that reasoning is totally absurd! One can expect such exclusionary policies in European countries (where many business owners barely tolerate children in their restaurants, shops, and hotels). But, that is not the norm here in America.

JMO...


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthie's momma* 
Sorry to hear about the way you were treated







:. Unlike PPs, I have found B&Bs to be child friendly. Maybe it is a regional thing? We are out West...most everyone tends to love kids and dogs!!!









DH and I have always enjoyed staying at B&Bs! Since DD was born, we have continued to enjoy them. We have stayed in a variety of B&Bs in a lot of different locations:

*Breckenridge, Colorado
*Telluride, Colorado
*Santa Fe, New Mexico
*Cambria, California
*San Luis Obispo, California
*Santa Barbara, California

Every time, our daughter has been greeted with open arms. In fact, we have gotten special treatment! One place laid out an assortment of bath toys in the bathroom for DD while other places have provided a small box of toys! Every place supplied special bedding and a crib or little bed, as well as baby or toddler friendly food. Diaper service has been arranged for us, too.


Well there are lots of kid friendly ones, too. That's the thing. There are both. So why would it be an issue? If you have your children with you, find a place they can stay.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Well, OP, I am with you.

I do not get the whole "I'm on a romantic getaway with my DP and seeing kids would just wreck it" mentality. (I'm not trying to be judgmental here, just saying that I, personally, do not understand.)

I live in the states and I am surprised to hear that the no kids policy is common. Honestly it would never even occur to me to ask if my children were "allowed" in any kind of environment. I assume that if I am allowed than my kids are too. I does seem to be an age based form of discrimination.

Having said that, I try to be respectful of others when out and about. The kids can run, jump and be noisy on a playground not in a restaurant. If my kids are not behaving appropriately to the environment it is my responsibility to remove them.

Right or wrong, if someplace is going to be "adult only" they have a responsibility to be up front about it. I think this is what makes the situation really crappy.


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

I think it's okay for a B&B not to accept children. Karina5 is right- they may have antiques, or a not-so-safe set up for kids. The food they serve may not be kid-friendly either. And to be honest, a lot of their customers may be going precisely to have a kid-free weekend. Go to a kid-friendly place instead.


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

I would be irked too, but on the other side of things, maybe it's that they're not equipped to meet the needs of families and aren't babyproofed in any way. It could just be a liability thing - but it still sucks. Try one of the bigger hotels/motels...they're usually family friendly even if they are more cookie cutter.


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## Getz (May 22, 2005)

I always thought it was assumed a B&B was not family friendly unless they specifically said so, not the other way around (cultural difference I guess). It doesn't mean they are child-haters. I am not a child hater (I am quite fond of my own kids







) but don't really care for other people's kids. I like that there are places out there that are adult-only (not that DH and I go anywhere). I wouldn't go to a hotel with an indoor water park and be annoyed there were families there, I think the opposite is true as well.


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheal* 
So Toys R Us discriminates against adults because they gear their business to children? It's not discrimination, it's gearing a personal business to an industry with a demand for it. Simple economics.

Adults are allowed to shop at TRU...the difference is being geared towards a certain market and actually saying that children are not permitted. I can see how that's discriminatory.

But it is a cultural thing, I find here in North America it's acceptable to discriminate against kids and families...whereas elsewhere it's accepted that kids come as part of the package.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Swan3* 
Adults are allowed to shop at TRU...the difference is being geared towards a certain market and actually saying that children are not permitted. I can see how that's discriminatory.

But it is a cultural thing, I find here in North America it's acceptable to discriminate against kids and families...whereas elsewhere it's accepted that kids come as part of the package.


Not really. There are many places outside of north america that appreciate no-kid policies as well.


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## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FeminineFigure* 
Honestly, I don't think their reply was rude, just to the point.

I understand your frustration, but I completely understand the policy. Like others said, I would hate to be on a romantic getaway and hear screaming kids next to us...that's the kind of place you often pick for a romantic getaway because of the very fact that they usually do not accept children.

I have also been to adult-only resorts, and it is a nice break to be able to sit around a pool without kids running around. I love kids, but sometimes adult time is much appreciated.

And again, many b&b have antiques, collectables, breakables, fancy furniture, so even if your kids are perfect and wouldn't touch any of those things, I can definitely see that many of those places are not kid-friendly.

I agree completely with this!

We have been very lucky to always find B&B's that allow children when we go on vacation, but it does take some work to find them. It never bothered me at all that some places don't allow children. If I was on a romantic getaway with my husband, i wouldn't want kids around.


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## sahmama_12 (May 25, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
Well, OP, I am with you.

I do not get the whole "I'm on a romantic getaway with my DP and seeing kids would just wreck it" mentality. (I'm not trying to be judgmental here, just saying that I, personally, do not understand.)

I live in the states and I am surprised to hear that the no kids policy is common. Honestly it would never even occur to me to ask if my children were "allowed" in any kind of environment. I assume that if I am allowed than my kids are too. I does seem to be an age based form of discrimination.

Having said that, I try to be respectful of others when out and about. The kids can run, jump and be noisy on a playground not in a restaurant. If my kids are not behaving appropriately to the environment it is my responsibility to remove them.

Right or wrong, if someplace is going to be "adult only" they have a responsibility to be up front about it. I think this is what makes the situation really crappy.

Yeah that. I think it really segregates parents to have certain places kid-free. I too do not understand how your vacation would be ruined by someone elses kids. These places are after all, as one pp said, far from sound proof. So if everyone is getting it on how is the noise from that less distracting than kid noise?


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
Not really. There are many places outside of north america that appreciate no-kid policies as well.

I don't think it's as common as it is here...children seem to be unwelcome in so many places (not just B&Bs) to the point where people complain about "unruly" kids on busses, in malls, restaurants - pretty much anywhere.

While the era has passed on the popularity of the term "children should be seen and not heard" it's still how people think.

Talking to a lot of European moms who have compared life there to life here, I get the distinct impression that this is the case. And in terms of Latin America I definitely think there's a different cultural acceptance of kids. They go where the adults go, families travel together instead of without kids.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

I don't think the "adult only" policy has anything to do with baby proofing and breakables or liability. Every hotel room I have ever been in has had breakables and needs some basic baby proofing (wires, outlets, bath products, etc...).

I do think it's a cultural thing. American society is definitely anti-child/anti-family. I'm not saying there are no family-friendly niches. But has anyone else noticed that there is no happy medium? Places to be either kid friendly or adult oriented. For example, even family restaurants like Applebees have had some anti-baby press (remember the NIP incident?).

I find that the general attitude among my childless peers (even my IL's) is that children should be home with baby sitter. I hear a lot of "I don't like other people's children" comments from my IRL mom friends. Look at popular TV shows. How many have babies that are invisible? (I'm thinking Friends as an example.) Again, there are exceptions, there are shows that are about families so you do see the kids. I think that looking at a culture's media is pretty revealing about it's attitudes.

I'm not saying that the above attitudes are wrong. It's just something that I have observed.


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Swan3* 
Adults are allowed to shop at TRU...the difference is being geared towards a certain market and actually saying that children are not permitted. I can see how that's discriminatory.

But it is a cultural thing, I find here in North America it's acceptable to discriminate against kids and families...whereas elsewhere it's accepted that kids come as part of the package.

I'm in Ontario and there are plenty of places that are both kid friendly and not so kid friendly. The couples resorts specify that they are couples resorts.

Yes, an adult can shop at TRU but since when do we see a 4 year old child shopping alone at TRU and there are no real (except gaming systems) products for adults in the store - it was a general comparison.

I have no issues with places that gear themselves to either adults only, families or children only. It's what the consumer wants that ultimately gets put out there in the market. Still a matter of simple economics not race, not ageism and certainly not meant to be "unacceptable of children or families".


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Even pre-kids, I thought B&Bs were too uptight and stuffy.







Can't imagine staying in one with kids even if they were allowed. Seems like I would spend the whole time trying to keep them quiet or from breaking something. Anyway, most of the ones I've ever seen either don't allow kids or only allow those over 12.

When we've traveled with kids, I've always enjoyed getting a suite at a big hotel. Gives us lots of room to spread out and we don't have worry too much about noise. Embassy Suites is pretty nice and has a big breakfast buffet and a complimentary cocktail hour just like some B&Bs.







Oh, and you get the bonus of a pool. I bet there is one in Memphis.


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## brightonwoman (Mar 27, 2007)

They should have had it on their website--they should not assume that everyone would know, no matter how common it is. I think it's pretty inexcusable that they were so rude too. I'm glad that atleast you found otu before you got there...DH and I were invited to an event and when we got there and went to go in they said no I couldnt' come in because I had a 5mo nursling in arms. We were pretty miffed because we'd driven over an hour, and gotten a babysitter for our older child... I understand that some places don't want kids around, but they need to make it clear from the outset that that is their policy.

DH and I hope to start a B&B someday--and it would be VERY family friendly.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grniys* 
See... I just don't see it as discrimination. The business is geared for couples on romantic getaways without kids. I just don't think EVERYTHING must be child-friendly.

THANK YOU!!! Not everything is for everybody. There is a time and a place. I love my kids - and usually everyone else's - but they aren't welcome everywhere. I am always blown away when people (it seems always to be women) think their kids should be allowed in their college classes, their workplace, all wedding ceremonies (some of which are kid-friendly and some of which are not).

Husbands aren't welcome at bridal showers. No one gets upset about it. It just isn't for them. Doesn't mean we don't like them or are husband-haters. Wives aren't welcome at the annual canoe trip my dp takes with his high school buddies. No big deal.

I'm sure there are lots of hotels in the area that would work for the whole family to stay. I haven't personally stayed in B & Bs before - because it just seems like not enough privacy. OP, I hope you find something that will work for you. Congrats on your dp coming home!


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## Peppermint Leaf (Jan 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
THANK YOU!!! Not everything is for everybody. There is a time and a place. I love my kids - and usually everyone else's - but they aren't welcome everywhere. I am always blown away when people (it seems always to be women) think their kids should be allowed in their college classes, their workplace, all wedding ceremonies (some of which are kid-friendly and some of which are not).

Husbands aren't welcome at bridal showers. No one gets upset about it. It just isn't for them. Doesn't mean we don't like them or are husband-haters. Wives aren't welcome at the annual canoe trip my dp takes with his high school buddies. No big deal.

I'm sure there are lots of hotels in the area that would work for the whole family to stay. I haven't personally stayed in B & Bs before - because it just seems like not enough privacy. OP, I hope you find something that will work for you. Congrats on your dp coming home!


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grniys* 
See... I just don't see it as discrimination. The business is geared for couples on romantic getaways without kids. I just don't think EVERYTHING must be child-friendly.

This! OP I understand your frustration and I honestly hope you can find the right place for your family to spend your time together. But, I can say not every retreat should be family friendly. When I was researching places for our honeymoon it took me a LONG time to find a couples only resort in St. Lucia. The last thing I wanted on my honeymoon was hearing screaming kids (not saying yours is a screamer







) while Dh and I were trying to enjoy a relaxing evening on the beach. It is just nice to have a retreat to go to without kids. If kids were allowed everywhere then it would be a pretty bummer of a place to vacation anywhere. That said I take my children almost everywhere I go in public, grocery store, post office, dr. office, and weddings and receptions and celebrations that are family oriented. (I am trying to say I am open to having children around 99 percent of the time and my children have never spent the night away from me but there is a time and place for adults only.)


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

i think they should have put it on their website. if you don't accept children just say so. assuming that everyone knows is arrogant and it will lead to upsetting people who do not just know. not everyone frequents B&Bs and not every B&B is the same ... and in other countries they are often very child friendly. if you don't allow kids just say so on the website. really really simple.

o and we do not accept kids is rude... how about we are an adults only establishment.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Swan3* 
And in terms of Latin America I definitely think there's a different cultural acceptance of kids. They go where the adults go, families travel together instead of without kids.

Southern Europe in particular seems much the same. You see kids out everywhere with there parents, even in nice restaurants that if it were here would be considered too nice for kids. As a parent there you aren't subjected to a life of Olive Garden or Red Robin.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
Southern Europe in particular seems much the same. You see kids out everywhere with there parents, even in nice restaurants that if it were here would be considered too nice for kids. As a parent there you aren't subjected to a life of Olive Garden or Red Robin.










I see kids in nice restaurants here. I don't see the kid-hating thing in the US that people are talking about. Maybe it's just my community. Kids are everywhere here, not just Olive Garden.

What country is it that they leave their babies outside in the stroller while the parents are inside eating? Sweden I believe...? I think that's awesome!


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

When I want to bring my kids I go to a family friendly hotel. When I want a romantic adult weekend, I go to a B & B. If I arrived at the B&B and there were a lot of kids, I would cancel if policy permitted, and strike it off my list if not permitted.

I wouldn't take my kids to a spa where they would ruin the ambience either. There is a time and a place for everything.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

I just don't understand why they would say that. I've never heard of a B&B in this area that doesn't "accept" children. I know some will include a message like "We have many breakables in our home. If you have young chilren, you may find it more relaxing in alternative accomadation." That's different though, it's more a "know your kids" message.

To me, it just sounds stupid. Why would you close yourself off from that much business, unless you are in an area where you are never empty? (Which may be why it's the way it is here, since we have a long "dry spell" tourist wise every year.)


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

I was just thinking that even having a label of "family-friendly" implies that we, as a culture, are not.

I wonder if the the southern Europe and Latin cultures that the PP's have mentioned have a term for "family-friendly".


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

If you Google, you can find kid-free hotels and such EVERYWHERE.

Check this out.

http://www.asiarooms.com/thailand/ko...otel-room.html

Quote:

Child Policy
No Kid Allowed

Others
This hotel do not accept kid.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
When I want to bring my kids I go to a family friendly hotel. When I want a romantic adult weekend, I go to a B & B. If I arrived at the B&B and there were a lot of kids, I would cancel if policy permitted, and strike it off my list if not permitted.

I wouldn't take my kids to a spa where they would ruin the ambience either. There is a time and a place for everything.

But who is to say what the "time and place" is?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 







I just don't understand why they would say that. I've never heard of a B&B in this area that doesn't "accept" children. I know some will include a message like "We have many breakables in our home. If you have young chilren, you may find it more relaxing in alternative accomadation." That's different though, it's more a "know your kids" message.

To me, it just sounds stupid. Why would you close yourself off from that much business, unless you are in an area where you are never empty? (Which may be why it's the way it is here, since we have a long "dry spell" tourist wise every year.)

I see you are from NS.

This is the only place I have ever experienced B&B's, I guess that's why the idea of B&B's as usually an adult only kinda place takes me by surprise.

See, it is cultural.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
What country is it that they leave their babies outside in the stroller while the parents are inside eating? Sweden I believe...? I think that's awesome!

Actually I think it's Denmark. But it's not because they don't welcome babies but more that places are too small to accommodate strollers. I think they believe the fresh air is good for them too.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
If you Google, you can find kid-free hotels and such EVERYWHERE.

Check this out.

http://www.asiarooms.com/thailand/ko...otel-room.html










and they put it on their website!!! like this B&B should have done.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
Actually I think it's Denmark. But it's not because they don't welcome babies but more that places are too small to accommodate strollers. I think they believe the fresh air is good for them too.


Denmark! That's it. Yeah, I think it's awesome. ANd it's great that they feel it's so safe. OMG, I can't even imagine leaving my kid outside like that, but it's a really neat tradition.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 

But who is to say what the "time and place" is?



the business owner.

That's why there are all types of hotels, guest houses, and b and b's. It should be up to the owner to decide.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
I don't see the kid-hating thing in the US that people are talking about.

I don't see it as much as I read about on parenting boards of all places. Seems like most of the people who don't want kids around are parents looking to escape,


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
I see kids in nice restaurants here. I don't see the kid-hating thing in the US that people are talking about. Maybe it's just my community. Kids are everywhere here, not just Olive Garden.

What country is it that they leave their babies outside in the stroller while the parents are inside eating? Sweden I believe...? I think that's awesome!

Am I understanding this post correctly, you think it's awesome for parents to park their child in a stroller outside and then go inside to eat?

Or are you saying that families with strollers eat outside, there is a no stroller section inside, and that's what's awesome.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
But who is to say what the "time and place" is?

The owner of the establishment that is trying to create the ambience, of course.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheal* 
So Toys R Us discriminates against adults because they gear their business to children? It's not discrimination, it's gearing a personal business to an industry with a demand for it. Simple economics.

I don't know about where you live, but where I live Toys R Us doesn't turn away the adults at the door.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I love to go places where kids aren't allowed sometimes. Kids and adults play differently and they both need places for their kind of activity. When I a burnt out on noise and people and looking for a retreat from reality I look for places where kids will not be. I think they should have phrased their response more politely, but I don't think it is wrong of them to have a peaceful adult atmosphere for people who would like an adult holiday.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stickywicket67* 
op-

are you from Europe? i think that maybe you are used to the concept of B&B in a more European context?

i know in England it's more family oriented and less expensive to stay in a B&B. it used to be anyway...

in America B&Bs are considered chi chi foo foo expensive romantic couples getaway places.

shame though 'cause i think it's nicer the other way.

i mean who wants to get busy with the dh when right next door is the host and hostess!!?? that's just weird.

sorry they were not accepting of kids. i think it's just a cultural difference though.

i've always thought it would be nice to have a real B&B where i live. one where there is a big main room with books and puzzles and musical instruments and a fireplace and bikes to take to the beach and kids are welcome and it's a reasonably priced family friendly alternative to a boring hotel. hmmmm. maybe in my next career...

Yes, that's right.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
the business owner.

That's why there are all types of hotels, guest houses, and b and b's. It should be up to the owner to decide.

This makes sense.









I have had to many people make snarky comments about me taking my well behaved kids with me someplace that THEY decided was inappropriate. I do not think that someone else's distaste for children should mean that my kids should only be allowed to go to Chuck E. Cheese.

If some one wants to be in a child free environment than it is up to them to seek it out. Like the PP's have pointed out, there are plenty of them worldwide.


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## ancoda (Oct 17, 2005)

I think they did word it rather oddly. I am sorry that it offended you. There really are not a lot of B&B's that I have found that do let you bring your kids, and most that I have found that do let kids come are for 12 and up or at least 6 and up.
Here is a web site that shows child-friendly B&B's http://www.virtualcities.com/ons/children.htm


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

I ran into this when Rain was little... we liked to stay at B&Bs but some didn't accept kids... and really, many B&Bs were just so totally perfect for a 7 year old little girl, or for my 7 yr old girl, anyway... she was very theatrical, and loved the chaise lounges and fancy touches. It was like playing tea party for a whole day....

FWIW, we loved the Swan-Levine House in Grass Valley, California, and they were very child-friendly. The owners (who were incredibly nice) are both artists, and the house is an old Victorian that was actually used as a hospital at one point, so the decor was really cool. We stayed in the Surgery, which has pink walls, and a white wicker chaise lounge, and a clawfoot tub.

Just in case anyone is traveling to the area!

Dar


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
The owner of the establishment that is trying to create the ambience, of course.

Like I said, this makes sense.









I hope that they remember to advertise the "adult's only" ambiance so they don't waste the time of those of us that have our kids in tow and don't assume that kids are not welcome.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
Like I said, this makes sense.









I hope that they remember to advertise the "adult's only" ambiance so they don't waste the time of those of us that have our kids in tow and don't assume that kids are not welcome.


I guess that as a previous poster said, this is cultural. Pre-kids, we stayed in B&Bs in New England a LOT, about once a month, so I am very familiar with the ambience that most B&Bs are trying to acheive. Therefor, I assume that a B&B is childfree, unless they specifically state otherwise.

My family in Ireland, on the other hand, would assume a B&B was a budget, casual accomodation suited to families, as that is what a B&B is like in Ireland.


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## beka1977 (Aug 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
Am I understanding this post correctly, you think it's awesome for parents to park their child in a stroller outside and then go inside to eat?

Or are you saying that families with strollers eat outside, there is a no stroller section inside, and that's what's awesome.


Yeah that. Cause the way I'm understanding it is the kid gets left outside alone in a stroller. How is THAT child friendly? Feel welcome to ditch your kid outside in their stroller while you come in to have a nice meal.

FWIW, I have never eaten in a Round Robin or an Olive Garden.


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## llamalluv (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom* 
I don't see anything wrong with their policy or with their response.









And seriously? We could really do without equating racism with people preferring grown up time at their b&b's.

Me, either.

What's wrong with the Best Western? That's where my husband and I spent our wedding night. Roomy, nice beds, free shampoo and conditioner, cable TV, and free breakfast with a WAFFLE STATION!!!!!







:


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I don't know about where you live, but where I live Toys R Us doesn't turn away the adults at the door.









Yeah, how else are the kids gonna get the cash to pay for their goodies ? He he he....


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## katja (Apr 13, 2004)

The b&bs that don't allow kids are probably doing you a favor. Those places are always full of fragile stuff and antiques. It would be pretty stressful to have to worry about stuff getting broken, or about noise.

FWIW, MIL tried to book us in the B&B where she was staying for Thanksgiving. They didn't allow kids, but we found one that did. When we visited MIL's B&B, I was very happy that we hadn't stayed there. Lots of nice original artwork, light carpeting, glass and crystal, decanters of scotch, etc, everywhere. With a 2-year-old, it would have been hellish.
The kid-friendly B&B was fairly shabby, and we liked it that way. Less to worry about. You'll find something.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:

I don't think it's as common as it is here...children seem to be unwelcome in so many places (not just B&Bs) to the point where people complain about "unruly" kids on busses, in malls, restaurants - pretty much anywhere.
Well in Canada, the complains about 'unruly' children in public places are usually aimed at the parents of child who run screaming through/around/in said place.

Personally I see not allowing children at a B&B as part of their target marketing. No another persons kid won't ruin my vacation, but in all honesty, when we go of vacation one of the blessings is that I don't have to listen to the neighbours kids screaming, fighting, throwing things and the loud thumps that make me wonder if their pushing each other down the stairs... Seriously, it sounds like that sometimes. And of course mom screaming at her kids to do as she says. And if I'm staying somewhere with DH alone I don't want to hear it. I'm there looking for peace and quiet and a change to get away from everything at home that annoys the heck out of me.

It'd be like... hiring an accountant so you can do your own taxes...


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Never mind -- someone already beat me to my point.


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## Carma (Feb 10, 2006)

Here on the east coast I also had trouble finding B&B that allowed kids.
Even some hotels don't allow them.

Carma


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

I didn't read all the posts, but check out bedandbreakfast.com. They list b&bs nationwide and each ad notes whether they accept children or not and what ages. We prefer to stay in B&Bs because they are nicer and tend to be cleaner than hotels. We've found that off season, a lot of B&Bs are more willing to accept children because they need the business. I just call ahead of time and make sure and promise my children will be on best behavior and I will watch them like a hawk(which I make sure they are, we've never have a problem with this) We get a couple here and there that won't budge but most will and some are even extremely accomodating (providing a special little bed for ds, special treats for him etc)


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I don't know about where you live, but where I live Toys R Us doesn't turn away the adults at the door.









That's not what I said but I do know that kind of subtle sarcasm where I live is rude.


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## Mbella (Apr 5, 2007)

I agree with many of the PP. When I think of b&b I think of a quiet kid-free place. Dh and I stayed in one at the Jersey Shore for one of our anniversaries (pre-babies) and it was very peaceful. We also went to St. Lucia for our honeymoon and stayed at Sandals and we liked that it was couples-only. I think there should be places that are kid-free for couples who want peace and quiet. If we ever get to go anywhere by ourselves as a couple on vacation, I would want to go to a place with a kid-free environment. Not that I expect that to happen anytime in the near future (or years for that matter). Many people go to these places to be alone and have some time away from their kids. The b&b owners are just accommmodating their clients wishes. When we go away with the kids we make sure it is a kid-friendly place.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

That's ridiculous. I agree, I would not frequent a place that wouldn't allow my kids.

Businesses should set standards for behavior, not age restrictions. I can certainly see throwing a guest out who was disturbing the other patrons, no matter what the guest's age . . . but saying "no kids," assumes that all kids are the same (and awful).


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiaofthewoods* 
O well. I guess I have not been in the States long enough yet to be used to that. I thought they all would allow children.

B&Bs in other countries are very different from B&Bs on the east coast of the US. I stayed in B&Bs in europe, and they were pretty much just as child friendly as hotels were.

Here they tend to be expensive and filled with nick-nacks. DH and I stayed at one before we had DS, and I can't imagine having a very good time at it with DS when he was 19 mo. There was no where I would have been comfortable changing a diaper. I'd have gone crazy keeping him away from the bottels of local hard cider that was everywhere. There was tall antique furniture not tethered to the plaster was of the old victorian farm house. Etc.

It would have been nice if they had said "Sorry, we are very poorly set up for young children." Instead of "we do not accept children," but the reasons are valid.

I some times just decide on my own that a place doesn't look child friendly enough for me to want to take DS to it even if they don't have a no children policy. For instance, between when DS was around 13 mo and 26 mo we completely avoided restraunts with table clothes since DS liked to pull on them.

Recently I stayed at a _family friendly_ hotel in PA. While not completely child centered, it had many accomedations that pleased DS to no end. A nice salt water pool, and a small swingset out back, toddler pleasing food, and some farm animals. There were thing older kids would have liked too, tennis courts, a basket ball hoop, game room, etc.

There are certainly places that don't accept adults. I can not sign up to take classes at DS's preschool myself, they will only take him. At Ikea adults are not allowed into the ballpit.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
What country is it that they leave their babies outside in the stroller while the parents are inside eating? Sweden I believe...? I think that's awesome!

Why would leaving my baby *alone* in a stroller parked on a cold or hot sidewalk while I enjoyed a nice meal in a climate controlled restraunt be a good thing







.

Before DS started solids he would snuggle in his sling or sit next to me in his carseat/carrier when we went to restraunts. If he wanted to nurse he was right there. Once he stared solids I would ask for a high chair, small bowl and a fork for him and mash him up a banana (always had one in a baggy along with a bib and baby spoon) and let him eat with the rest of us.


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## homewithtwinsmama (Jan 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peppermint Leaf* 
Yes, we found this out years ago ... we used to go to them pre-ds ... when we tried to look for one afterwards ... no luck.

you will find almost all of them are not child friendly.

We learned to like hotels









You can find child friendly B and B places if you look, but most don't and frankly that is why I like them. When I go to them it is usually cause I want a rare break from kids life. I went to one just before I had this last baby in March. I would have been pretty peeved if I got woken up early by crying or playing kids when the whole point of going was to get a break from my own. Since these places are usually regular (and old) houses, they are hardly sound proof. When you can find a B and B that is accepting kids it is usually not in the main house but in a separate cottage or guest house.


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

I agree with the poster who said something along the lines of "I don't necessarily always like other ppl's kids". If I were paying high $ for a romantic and/or quiet getaway I would be pretty P.O.'d if someone's kid spent the weekend screaming, throwing tantrums, and being loud/annoying otherwise. I'd find a different place and go there when you're able to have a getway (just you and DH) and DS is able to stay with someone.


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
Actually I think it's Denmark. But it's not because they don't welcome babies but more that places are too small to accommodate strollers. I think they believe the fresh air is good for them too.

Fresh air _is_ good for you!!!! As long as you are dressed for the weather, you are fine, even a tiny baby. It is Denmark, but Sweden too, to a degree. It depends entirely on the establishment. You wouldn't put a push-chair on a narrow foot-path outside a restaurant with a hallway, in a big city. However, at a local café, , perhaps with tables outside, on a wide foot-path, where you can sit just inside the door, watching through the window, yes, why not (remember, kidnappings are extremely rare in Scandinavia, the only ones I've heard of have been a parent taking his or her child, or a much older child. It isn't like you have any chance of getting away with stealing someone else's child!).

I grew up in Sweden. While we didn't go to B&Bs there (hostels are excellent, clean, cheap, family accommodation in Sweden), we did stay at B&Bs during holidays in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. I have wonderful memories of us, three little children, looking out for signs saying "zimmer frei", returning to the same B&Bs year after year, where the usually elderly couples, would spoil us children rotten, with tiny chocolates on our pillows, lovely breakfast spreads, big chocolate gifts as we were leaving etc!

M parents are arriving for a visit this summer (February!), and we are going to take them, and of course DD, to our favourite, very much romantic, place (the owners call it an Inn, but in essence, I think it is a B&B, although they serve dinner as well, if you pay for it) where we will stay in their family suite, rather than one of their ordinary double rooms. I love the place, precisely because it is so secluded, romantic and relaxed. And children are very welcome (the owners actually have children themselves), they even have a (beautifully landscaped, and very much fitting in well in environment) sandpit!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AislinCarys* 
(remember, kidnappings are extremely rare in Scandinavia, the only ones I've heard of have been a parent taking his or her child, or a much older child. It isn't like you have any chance of getting away with stealing someone else's child!)

That's actually the case in the US, too, statistically. But no one would do that at a cafe because it isn't culturally accepted.


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## UptownZoo (May 11, 2003)

Huh. I don't have a problem with that at all. DH and I have a favorite B&B that we visit once or twice a year and I love that it's a no kid zone! I love kids, my own and other people's, but there are times when I want an adults only environment.

I think it's quite a stretch to say that the existence of adults-only B&Bs means that US culture is a child-hating one.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
Am I understanding this post correctly, you think it's awesome for parents to park their child in a stroller outside and then go inside to eat?

Or are you saying that families with strollers eat outside, there is a no stroller section inside, and that's what's awesome.









Neither. I think it's awesome that Denmark is so safe that parents feel secure doing this. I don't think it's an awful thing. Somehow all these babies grow up and maybe the fresh air is really good for them. I don't think they leave a crying baby out there, just a sleeping one. It's not something I can really envision, but I think the whole thing is kind of neat.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheal* 
That's not what I said but I do know that kind of subtle sarcasm where I live is rude.









I was also being redundant. I'd commented before reading the rest of the replies, and later realized someone else had already responded to your post (only not sarcastically/rudely like I did







).

When I tried to edit it out, things got really weird, and my edit of "never mind -- someone already beat me to my point" got put further down, while the comment I'd tried to delete stayed right where it was ...

Anyhow, my intent was not to offend, but rather to express that the analogy was flawed. I should have just said "This analogy is flawed because ..."

I'll try to keep that in mind for the future, and I apologize for my rudeness.


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## fairejour (Apr 15, 2004)

I know tons of B&B's that don't "allow" kids. Why would they? They are places for for couples. What is wrong with that? Is it "disrespectful" for my husband and I to spend the night together? Or what about people pre-child, or on their honeymoons?

http://www.anniversaryinn.com/rooms.php?room=93

This is a place that should let babies in?


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
I don't think they leave a crying baby out there, just a sleeping one.

I've heard strangers will stop to pop there heads in to tell parents that their baby has woken up and is crying.


----------



## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
That's actually the case in the US, too, statistically. But no one would do that at a cafe because it isn't culturally accepted.

I'm not afraid that if I left an infant parked out side a restraunt that they would be kidnapped.

I believe that the baby might get cold or hot, that tey would be likely to wake up and be scared that they were alone, that if they were already awake they would be bored, that they might get hungry and want to nurse, that an older baby might try to climb out of their stroller and fall, that a bird might poop on them, that a dog might bite them, that a kid might try to play with them roughly, that an old lady might give them hard candy to choke on, etc, etc...

One does not need to be paranoid seeing child abductors around every corner to feel that leaving small babies parked alone on a city sidewalk is a bad idea.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fairejour* 
I know tons of B&B's that don't "allow" kids. Why would they? They are places for for couples. What is wrong with that? Is it "disrespectful" for my husband and I to spend the night together? Or what about people pre-child, or on their honeymoons?

http://www.anniversaryinn.com/rooms.php?room=93

This is a place that should let babies in?

What confused the OP is that in the country where she's from, B&Bs are casual places for families. Here they are romantic places for couples.


----------



## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
I've heard strangers will stop to pop there heads in to tell parents that their baby has woken up and is crying.










Again, that's really awesome. It's interesting that it works so well in their culture. It would not work well here I don't think.

Then again, isn't Denmark "the world's happiest country" or something like that? I believe it is!! Probably their looking out for one another's babies is a good indicator of that.

For people that think it's a bad idea, I think "don't judge unless you've been there, seen EXACTLY how it works, etc.."


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
I'm not afraid that if I left an infant parked out side a restraunt that they would be kidnapped.

I believe that the baby might get cold or hot, that tey would be likely to wake up and be scared that they were alone, that if they were already awake they would be bored, that they might get hungry and want to nurse, that an older baby might try to climb out of their stroller and fall, that a bird might poop on them, that a dog might bite them, that a kid might try to play with them roughly, that an old lady might give them hard candy to choke on, etc, etc...

One does not need to be paranoid seeing child abductors around every corner to feel that leaving small babies parked alone on a city sidewalk is a bad idea.

We're talking about sleeping babies here, not awake toddlers, and usually in a pram with a hood. You'd park the pram outside the window where you can see your baby - so you can get her if or when she wakes up. Roaming dogs is usually not a problem in cities/towns (or anywhere), there are strict laws on controlling your dog, and people abide them. And in Sweden, the idea that a stranger would feed your baby anything is ridiculous! They'll oh and ah over the baby (but I doubt they'd get too close to a sleeping baby - parents don't usually take it well if you wake their precious bundle).

Oh, well, not on the topic at all, sorry.


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## hazelmama (Nov 2, 2004)

I don't think it's accurate to say that B&Bs in the US are universally thought of as couples only places. Certainly some seem to cater more towards a couples market with "romantic" trappings like fancy whirl pool tubs and such, but I don't remember being told or seeing any rules saying no kids in any of the various places that I've stayed at. Perhaps it's a regional thing or maybe I was unconciously avoiding those B&Bs giving off the couples only vibe.

I know if I was making a reservation at a B&B, I wouldn't have even have thought to ask if kids were allowed. Our DD still cosleeps so as long as the there was a king size bed the issue wouldn't have come up until we showed up there in person with our DD in tow. I guess it's good to know that might be a problem and I'll have to ask before making a reservation in the future.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MadameXCupcake* 
I know some accept children! One of my favorite trips growing up was to a B&B in Pa near the Amish country. I remember it having the most amazing and largest play house I have ever seen that had the cutest play kitchen, little dining room and even a loft! The owner even let us milk a cow!!

You can find one I'm sure.

There are a couple good ones in PA. We stayed at the Country Log House Bed and Breakfast last summer and they were extremely family friendly.

On the other hand, I understand places that aren't and I'd like to stay at one like that with dh when our youngest is older.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
Again, that's really awesome. It's interesting that it works so well in their culture. It would not work well here I don't think.

Then again, isn't Denmark "the world's happiest country" or something like that? I believe it is!! Probably their looking out for one another's babies is a good indicator of that.

For people that think it's a bad idea, I think "don't judge unless you've been there, seen EXACTLY how it works, etc.."


Yes, in the US the mother would probably immediately get "offended" that her parenting was being judged if someone popped in to tip her off that the baby was awake, or call the police because someone looked at her baby.


----------



## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Yes, in the US the mother would probably immediately get "offended" that her parenting was being judged if someone popped in to tip her off that the baby was awake, or call the police because someone looked at her baby.









More likely would be someone calling the police because a baby was left on the sidewalk in a stroller.









And her parenting getting judged, and people looking at/assessing her baby, for real.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
Well, OP, I am with you.

I do not get the whole "*I'm on a romantic getaway with my DP and seeing kids would just wreck it"* mentality. (I'm not trying to be judgmental here, just saying that I, personally, do not understand.)

I live in the states and I am surprised to hear that the no kids policy is common. Honestly it would never even occur to me to ask if my children were "allowed" in any kind of environment. I assume that if I am allowed than my kids are too. I does seem to be an age based form of discrimination.

Having said that, I try to be respectful of others when out and about. The kids can run, jump and be noisy on a playground not in a restaurant. If my kids are not behaving appropriately to the environment it is my responsibility to remove them.

Right or wrong, if someplace is going to be "adult only" they have a responsibility to be up front about it. I think this is what makes the situation really crappy.

No one said that the mere sight of a child would wreck everything. Come on.

Okay, if it age discrimination, then I guess I should be able to move into a retirement village.


----------



## MCR (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stickywicket67* 
op-

are you from Europe? i think that maybe you are used to the concept of B&B in a more European context?

i know in England it's more family oriented and less expensive to stay in a B&B. it used to be anyway...

in America B&Bs are considered chi chi foo foo expensive romantic couples getaway places.

shame though 'cause i think it's nicer the other way.

i mean who wants to get busy with the dh when right next door is the host and hostess!!?? that's just weird.

sorry they were not accepting of kids. i think it's just a cultural difference though.

i've always thought it would be nice to have a real B&B where i live. one where there is a big main room with books and puzzles and musical instruments and a fireplace and bikes to take to the beach and kids are welcome and it's a reasonably priced family friendly alternative to a boring hotel. hmmmm. maybe in my next career...

Thats what I was thinking. B&B's in US are a whole other world of knick knacks and antiques. In UK they are family friendly cheap accommodation.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

I know a few people that run B7Bs, and one thing to remember is that they are really someone's home, and so in the end, they have to allow the guests they feel they can enjoy themselves, it's much more intimate than being in a hotel.

I also have heard lots of very nasty stories about parents with kids in the b&b, not cleaning up after themselves, being left alone by the parents, demanding special food, and so one. For some reason parents, more than others, seem to ask unreasonable things of the owners of these establishments, and it makes them reluctant to have children there.

I do think that some of them may just not like children much. But I wonder if children these days are really taught about how to be a good guest?


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## Peppermint Leaf (Jan 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
That's ridiculous. I agree, I would not frequent a place that wouldn't allow my kids.

Businesses should set standards for behavior, not age restrictions. I can certainly see throwing a guest out who was disturbing the other patrons, no matter what the guest's age . . . but saying "no kids," assumes that all kids are the same (and awful).


no its not awful
not every place is meant for kids.

If my DH and I wanted to get away for a day or 2 -- I would ONLY choose a place that is adult only


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I haven't studied up on this -- but do you think there are differences in American and European cultures, that cause Americans to feel that phrases like "romantic getaway" and "child-friendly establishment" can't be uttered in the same sentence -- that you can't have one without excluding the other?

I mean, I know that lots of my fellow-Americans would find it weird that dh and I could make love in the same bed where our little ones are sleeping -- and I sometimes read/hear moms talking about how they need to "get out of mother-mode" before they can "move into wife/lover-mode." That's never made sense to me, because I feel like it's all part of one seamless whole.

So maybe this is why Americans seem to feel such a need for child-free "oases" ... I'd be interested to hear more thoughts on this subject from people of the various European cultures.

When one previous poster mentioned the rooms in a B&B not being sound-proof, and then someone else added that the sounds of children wouldn't likely be any more disturbing than the sounds of couples making love -- it occurred to me that lots of American parents would be upset at their children hearing and asking about such sounds, and also that lots of American couples would feel somewhat restrained in their lovemaking if they knew there were children in the next room.

So, maybe this is less of an issue in many European cultures? I'm American, so maybe it's a little odd that I don't fret about the possibility of one of our children waking up and "catching" us, or of them seeing dogs or cats mating or giving birth (dd1 has seen me giving birth), or hearing something in a conversation, or a radio or tv-show, that raises questions in their minds. I feel totally comfortable about discussing anything my children are wondering about ...

And of course I'm not saying that we watch explicit shows or expose our children to porn ... we would never do anything like that. I'm just saying that I'm not alarmed at our children knowing about sex as a normal part of life.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

There are many child-free "oases" in Europe, especially northern Europe. They just don't happen to include B&Bs.


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## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
So maybe this is why Americans seem to feel such a need for child-free "oases" ... I'd be interested to hear more thoughts on this subject from people of the various European cultures.

>snip>
So, maybe this is less of an issue in many European cultures? I'm American, so maybe it's a little odd that I don't fret about the possibility of one of our children waking up and "catching" us, or of them seeing dogs or cats mating or giving birth (dd1 has seen me giving birth), or hearing something in a conversation, or a radio or tv-show, that raises questions in their minds. I feel totally comfortable about discussing anything my children are wondering about ...

And of course I'm not saying that we watch explicit shows or expose our children to porn ... we would never do anything like that. I'm just saying that I'm not alarmed at our children knowing about sex as a normal part of life.

A lot of cultures are less child-centric/intensive. When I lived in Spain, four and five year olds were out playing with their friends with no parental/adult supervision. For, literally, hours at a time. And that was fine. Everyone was happy and safe. My 4 year old "brother" there (I was an exchange student 3 times) would hang out with us (teens of 13-16), at night, in the plaza (small town). My 9 year old "brother" would walk a mile home from school, or hang out with his friends in the center of town in a suburb of Madrid. And, that was accepted and normal. A PP wrote about how babies are outside in their strollers for a bit in some countries, not hovered over every moment of their lives. Perhaps the ability to step back a bit in every day life reduces a need to step back to the extreme of "child-free"


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
That's ridiculous. I agree, I would not frequent a place that wouldn't allow my kids.

Businesses should set standards for behavior, not age restrictions. I can certainly see throwing a guest out who was disturbing the other patrons, no matter what the guest's age . . . but saying "no kids," assumes that all kids are the same (and awful).









No it isn't. Some businesses aren't kid friendly. Take for example, the bank. What five year old enjoys going to the bank? And like it or not, there are customers who specifically seek out kid-free places. And some businesses make a living catering to that. That's not child-hating. I would not want to take my child to a smokey bar where I am drinking, throwing darts, and gambling. And hitting on that guy who won't look so good in the morning. I wouldn't want to have other kids around either.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

No kids at the bank? Wha?? It's not about whether the child gets a huge kick out of the bank, but about the fact that people with children have to live our lives. I take my kids to the bank all the time, I'm not about to get childcare so I can go to the bank!


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheal* 
You think? That was an extremely crude thing to post.

no cruder than hearing that children are not accepted, IMO.

to the one who originally said it...i was thinking the same thing. in fact, a friend of mine (white female) was planning her wedding at a local b&b. everything was set, all she had left to do was bring her fiance (AA male) to see the place. soon as he walked in, they were "magically" overbooked for that weekend. it was freaking february!!! who is overbooked for weddings in the winter? it was so obviously bc he was black.







:


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## OGirlieMama (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
More likely would be someone calling the police because a baby was left on the sidewalk in a stroller.









And her parenting getting judged, and people looking at/assessing her baby, for real.

That exact scenario happened in NYC a bunch of years back. A Danish couple left their child in a stroller outside a cafe, and it became an international incident. On the one hand, they were doing what was customary in their homeland. On the other hand, how dumb do you have to be not to have figured out (by the lack of ANY other strollers with kids sitting outside ANY store or restaurant ANYWHERE in NYC!) that it was not a cultural norm here, and thus a bad idea?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...56C0A961958260


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## Shelsi (Apr 4, 2005)

This thread is crazy long and I don't have time to read through it all.

Have you thought about booking through AFVC? The Armed Forces Vacation Club? You can find great deals and wonderful places to stay. We got a really nice place in San Diego last year that had a full kitchen for $50/night.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I haven't studied up on this -- but do you think there are differences in American and European cultures, that cause Americans to feel that phrases like "romantic getaway" and "child-friendly establishment" can't be uttered in the same sentence -- that you can't have one without excluding the other?

I mean, I know that lots of my fellow-Americans would find it weird that dh and I could make love in the same bed where our little ones are sleeping -- and I sometimes read/hear moms talking about how they need to "get out of mother-mode" before they can "move into wife/lover-mode." That's never made sense to me, because I feel like it's all part of one seamless whole.

So maybe this is why Americans seem to feel such a need for child-free "oases" ... I'd be interested to hear more thoughts on this subject from people of the various European cultures.

When one previous poster mentioned the rooms in a B&B not being sound-proof, and then someone else added that the sounds of children wouldn't likely be any more disturbing than the sounds of couples making love -- it occurred to me that lots of American parents would be upset at their children hearing and asking about such sounds, and also that lots of American couples would feel somewhat restrained in their lovemaking if they knew there were children in the next room.

So, maybe this is less of an issue in many European cultures? I'm American, so maybe it's a little odd that I don't fret about the possibility of one of our children waking up and "catching" us, or of them seeing dogs or cats mating or giving birth (dd1 has seen me giving birth), or hearing something in a conversation, or a radio or tv-show, that raises questions in their minds. I feel totally comfortable about discussing anything my children are wondering about ...

And of course I'm not saying that we watch explicit shows or expose our children to porn ... we would never do anything like that. I'm just saying that I'm not alarmed at our children knowing about sex as a normal part of life.

I have no trouble with being a parent _and_ a lover. But, and I don't think I'm the only one... There are times when I would like to be able to do the dee when ever the urge strikes without having to worry that I'll have to be called away for parent duty in the middle, as often happens when you are playing both roles.

We go on vacation with DD and it's ment to be a family thing. We do things as a family. Even though theres 'adult' time too. But when I go away with just DH, we can choose to stay in bed all day. DD wouldn't be happy having to entertain herself the whole day just because DH and I want to spend time alone. And it's just more relaxing when someone elses kids aren't running aroud.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kmeyrick* 







No it isn't. Some businesses aren't kid friendly. Take for example, the bank. What five year old enjoys going to the bank?

My three year old enjoys going to the bank. She asks me to go all the time. They have fresh baked cookies every day and all the employees dote on her.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

TinkerBelle said:


> No one said that the mere sight of a child would wreck everything. Come on.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Maybe not in those words but yes, I think that is what some of the posts are saying.
> ...


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kmeyrick* 







No it isn't. Some businesses aren't kid friendly. Take for example, the bank. What five year old enjoys going to the bank?

What adult LIKES going to the bank? You go because you have business you need to take care of . . . and I certainly am not teaching my kids that they only have to leave the house when they are doing something that sounds fun to them. Doing errands is a part of life, we can't frolic around and have a blast all day, and I want my kids to know how to behave wherever we go -- something they can't learn if they don't ever go anywhere.

A vacation does not at all compare to a boring errand, anyway. There are plenty of kids who would be just fine at -- and even enjoy -- a B&B.

People are welcome to give their money to places that don't accept kids, if that's what they want to do. It's not something *I* will do -- the only exception being if the business has a legal obligation not to allow kids (I disagree with anyone but parents deciding where their own children are allowed to be, but I don't expect businesses to break the law in those cases).


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## simplehome (Jul 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stickywicket67* 
op-i've always thought it would be nice to have a real B&B where i live. one where there is a big main room with books and puzzles and musical instruments and a fireplace and bikes to take to the beach and kids are welcome and it's a reasonably priced family friendly alternative to a boring hotel. hmmmm. maybe in my next career...

I know of such a place on Orcas Island, in WA. It is an awesome B&B, and totally ACCEPTS kids! We heard them turning a couple away who had come to check the place out because they weren't okay with the fact that we were there with our two-year-old. The proprietors WANT kids there. They are one of only two places on the island that I know of that accept children, and our favorite!

They also run a lavender farm.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

The bank example may not be the best, kmeyrick.

What it boils down to is that a business owner has a right to dictate their business as they see fit when it comes to this type of business. A guest house/B&B is an extension of their home. If they do not want children in their home, then so be it. You may not like it, and that is fine, as you do not need to give them your business. Others do like it, and will. End of story.

The great thing is that there are choices and therefore...everyone can have what they want.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
The bank example may not be the best, kmeyrick.

What it boils down to is that a business owner has a right to dictate their business as they see fit when it comes to this type of business. A guest house/B&B is an extension of their home. If they do not want children in their home, then so be it. You may not like it, and that is fine, as you do not need to give them your business. Others do like it, and will. End of story.

The great thing is that there are choices and therefore...everyone can have what they want.









I wonder about this, like where is the human rights line drawn? I personally don't object to childfree b&b's, but say a childfree bank? Grocery store? Apartment building?

I would hope there are only a few exceptions where age discrimination is allowed, and that something like a store would not be one of them.


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I wonder about this, like where is the human rights line drawn? I personally don't object to childfree b&b's, but say a childfree bank? Grocery store? Apartment building?

I would hope there are only a few exceptions where age discrimination is allowed, and that something like a store would not be one of them.

This is not a human rights issue. It's a business issue. If someone doesn't like the business policies then they can take their business someplace else.







It's no different than a women-only gym or a barber shop.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShwarmaQueen* 
This is not a human rights issue. It's a business issue. If someone doesn't like the business policies then they can take their business someplace else.







It's no different than a women-only gym or a barber shop.

Well as I have just found out re: breastfeeding, businesses do NOT have rights to make rules about who may enter their premises on the basis of gender, race, etc. (women only gyms etc seems an exception to this, I don't know the details but you can't turn a woman away from say a bank because of her gender). I see age discrimination as very similar to these issues, and although it is not covered directly I don't think, 'family status' is, at least where I live. I would certainly hope it is illegal for banks etc to refuse entry to children. What if they started refusing entry to seniors? Seniors are slow moving, they like to chat etc. I could see similar justification for old people as young.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I wonder about this, like where is the human rights line drawn? I personally don't object to childfree b&b's, but say a childfree bank? Grocery store? Apartment building?

I would hope there are only a few exceptions where age discrimination is allowed, and that something like a store would not be one of them.

As far as the apartment building goes, unless it's senior housing, then children cannot be excluded, at least in the US anyway, as per the fair housing act.


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## seawind (Sep 28, 2007)

If it is a policy matter, they should be cognizant of the fact that the website is going to be viewed by a general client base and word their terms a tad more sensitively. People have differing expectations from their vacation and I don't see a problem with businesses catering to those specific requirements.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Do you think that *anyone* should be allowed to play in the tunnels and other equipment at Chuck E. Cheese? A 200-lb., 20yo guy should be allowed to play in the structure with the LO's?

Just curious.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2xy* 
Do you think that *anyone* should be allowed to play in the tunnels and other equipment at Chuck E. Cheese? A 200-lb., 20yo guy should be allowed to play in the structure with the LO's?

Just curious.

Going back to my original point, as long as they are behaving appropriately, why not? I think it's far more rational to set standards for people's behavior than it is to exclude people based on age.


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I think it's far more rational to set standards for people's behavior than it is to exclude people based on age.

So if the rules said "Absolutely no yelling, whining, screaming, tantrums, or misbehavior will be tolerated or the guests will be forced to leave the premesis due to the tranquil nature of our business" Would that be better than just saying "No kids allowed"?


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
Going back to my original point, as long as they are behaving appropriately, why not? I think it's far more rational to set standards for people's behavior than it is to exclude people based on age.

The problem is that children do not have to be behaving badly to cause a ruckus. Children can be happily and joyfully playing, and still disturb people who are paying for a weekend of peace and quiet.

In light of that, I can't imagine taking my kids to a B&B when they were young. Not because they were bad, but because they would run and stomp while playing, make incredible sound effects with their Hot Wheels, have little control over their "inside voices," etc.

Now, maybe other people have children that are mouselike, tip-toeing around and whispering, although that's highly unlikely to be the norm. IME, a lot of parents are so used to the clamour that their kids create that they tune it out, and don't realize that others might not appreciate it.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShwarmaQueen* 
So if the rules said "Absolutely no yelling, whining, screaming, tantrums, or misbehavior will be tolerated or the guests will be forced to leave the premesis due to the tranquil nature of our business" Would that be better than just saying "No kids allowed"?

Yup, as long as they intend to apply the rule to adults, too.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

I found these 2 B&Bs near Memphis that allow children. Hope this helps

http://www.bedandbreakfast.com/missi...breakfast.html (children allowed in guest house)

http://www.bedandbreakfast.com/missi...uponatime.html


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xy
Do you think that anyone should be allowed to play in the tunnels and other equipment at Chuck E. Cheese? A 200-lb., 20yo guy should be allowed to play in the structure with the LO's?

Just curious.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
Going back to my original point, as long as they are behaving appropriately, why not? I think it's far more rational to set standards for people's behavior than it is to exclude people based on age.

Umm sorry nope I don't want any random 20 plus year old 200lb grown up who has no bussiness playing on equipment designed for a toddler/child so is it after the 200 lb adult crashes againt our 25lb two year old that we say no you need to leave? SOme rules are set up for safety reasons. I don't think parents shoud be playing on the equipment eaither aiding there kids is diffrent.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2xy* 
IME, a lot of parents are so used to the clamour that their kids create that they tune it out, and don't realize that others might not appreciate it.

This is the real issue. While our kids might be the center of our personal universe, it's extremely unrealistic to expect them to be the center of every one else's universe. A mother's idea of "fussing quietly" or "joyful squeals at play" are just irritating noises to those who are not the parent of that child, and are not wanted in a B&B, spa or other establishment where the ambience is meant to be quiet and relaxing.

I might add non-stop yacking and screeching of a teen and pre-teen to that list of noises. Can you tell they are getting on my nerves this snow-bound Saturday morning?







Wish I was in a B&B in Vermont right now...


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Okay people. Seriously, one last time not allowing children in certain environments =/= racism. And the insistence that it is is patently offensive.


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
Yup, as long as they intend to apply the rule to adults, too.

I think it's fair to say "No children" only because I don't know even a single child that can go 24-48 hours without any disturbance/outburst (happy or upset). IMO, it's much better business (and practical) for the B&B just to state what they mean, and not let people show up thinking their kids are welcome or won't act up (and then do) and forfeit their money. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't have that kinda $$.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

AbbieB said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle*
> ...


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
No kids at the bank? Wha?? It's not about whether the child gets a huge kick out of the bank, but about the fact that people with children have to live our lives. I take my kids to the bank all the time, I'm not about to get childcare so I can go to the bank!

But are most banks kid friendly? Mine doesn't have fresh baked cookies, and is kind of a dull place for a kid to be. They aren't banned from the bank, I'm just saying that not all businesses are designed to be kids friendly. And are they morally obligated to be kid-friendly? Nah.


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
Yup, as long as they intend to apply the rule to adults, too.

Disruptive adults usually ARE asked to leave. Some businesses cater to people who don't want to be around kids, and that's not evil or bad. I happen to love kids, which is why I pursued teaching as a career. But I don't think businesses are evil for not having kids. Are strip clubs, casinos, and bars, (it's generally illegal for under-age people to enter these businesses) somehow discriminatory for not allowing kids in?


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom* 
Okay people. Seriously, one last time not allowing children in certain environments =/= racism. And the insistence that it is is patently offensive.

Well, I don't think it 'equals racism,' no. And I think a B&B is an okay place to say no kids. But there was some discussion of no kids at the bank, etc. and IMO that is age discrimination and discrimination (against parents) based on family status. That does start to become pretty serious territory IMO. My life as a single mama would get about a billion times harder and more isolating if there were multiple random public places who felt they were free to say no children. That starts to infringe on human rights IMO.


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## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
This is the real issue. While our kids might be the center of our personal universe, it's extremely unrealistic to expect them to be the center of every one else's universe. A mother's idea of "fussing quietly" or "joyful squeals at play" are just irritating noises to those who are not the parent of that child, and are not wanted in a B&B, spa or other establishment where the ambience is meant to be quiet and relaxing.

I might add non-stop yacking and screeching of a teen and pre-teen to that list of noises. Can you tell they are getting on my nerves this snow-bound Saturday morning?







Wish I was in a B&B in Vermont right now...

Honestly, I think the first part of your post sums it up very well. A lot of time's parents just don't realize that yes, a fussy baby is annoying, and that no, not everyone wants to hear your kid giggling and squealing. And while (most) parent's would take their kids out of a restaurant or somewhere if they throw a tantrum, by that time everyone else has been disrupted. The damage would be done. Child-free places seem like a great compromise to me. Not everyone wants to be around children constantly. And I think that's just fine.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kmeyrick* 
But are most banks kid friendly? Mine doesn't have fresh baked cookies, and is kind of a dull place for a kid to be. They aren't banned from the bank, I'm just saying that not all businesses are designed to be kids friendly. And are they morally obligated to be kid-friendly? Nah.









You don't have to erect a playground in order to let children in. Children are people, family members, and can participate in the daily business of such without having everything targeted especially for them.

My goodness, if my child expected cookies and balloons everywhere we go, I would be in trouble.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kmeyrick* 
Disruptive adults usually ARE asked to leave.

And that's how it should be -- for kids and adults. I wish the restaurants and movie theaters we went to were more active about removing disruptive patrons of all ages (and my kids are with me at those places 99% of the time).

Quote:

Are strip clubs, casinos, and bars, (it's generally illegal for under-age people to enter these businesses) somehow discriminatory for not allowing kids in?
As I said earlier, I have no objection to businesses following the law. I disagree with laws banning children from anywhere, and I feel it should be up to me, as a parent, to decide what sort of places are appropriate for MY children, but I understand that businesses have to follow the law if they want to stay open.

I just think it's absolutely ridiculous to presume disruptive behavior from kids is the norm when it shouldn't be -- and FWIW, I'm not particularly enamored by or interested in engaging with other people's children when I go out. But if they're acting appropriately for the situation, there's no reason to exclude them.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

I like "no kids" rules b/c it is clearcut. If a business were to say "no tantrums" (as an example) I can just imagine the headaches it would cause them.

B&B Owner: I'm sorry, m'aam. Your daughter is throwing a tantrum. That's against our rules. I'm going to have to ask you to leave.

Mother: That's not a tantrum! She's just a tiny bit upset! But I would NOT define that as a "tantrum."

B&B Owner: Well it seems to be a tantrum to me. And other guests have complained.

Mother: I am telling you this is NOT a tantrum. She threw a tantrum last week, and THAT was a tantrum. This is NOT a tantrum.

B&B Owner: *sigh* It's a tantrum. It really is.

Mother: Well I'm going to sue you b/c this is not a tantrum.

It just makes no logical sense. What YOU as a parent (general you obviously) may feel is fine and dandy behavior, may not in reality be fine behavior to a B&B owner.

That's why the No Kids thing makes so much sense. No. Kids. It's easy.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
That's why the No Kids thing makes so much sense. No. Kids. It's easy.

It is easy. It is also discrimination. Which doesn't necessarily mean it's always wrong, but I think it should be only permitted in very specific circumstances.


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 







You don't have to erect a playground in order to let children in. Children are people, family members, and can participate in the daily business of such without having everything targeted especially for them.

My goodness, if my child expected cookies and balloons everywhere we go, I would be in trouble.

Which is why I said kids aren't banned from the bank, it's just not designed to be kid friendly and there's nothing wrong with that. If a business caters to people who want a kidfree place to go, how is that so bad? I like kids. I spend all day with them. I make occasional babysitting money on the side. When I'm out in a bar I swear, may or may not get drunk, dress trashy. I actually don't want to see my students there.

Also, with some state laws and insurance policies, tiny businesses like B&Bs may *need* to avoid kids if they have antiques or serve liquor.

Jessy, I think stripping should be legal and protected, and my closest friend relied on stripping for a good while to make ends meet. But strip clubs, by their very nature, are meant for adults. Both the owners and patrons want it to be that way. Even if it were legal I think it'd be HIGHLY inappropriate.

And a little creepy.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
It is easy. It is also discrimination. Which doesn't necessarily mean it's always wrong, but I think it should be only permitted in very specific circumstances.


Well I agree with you that it should be allowed in only certain circumstances, that's why I'm not a big fan of the "bank" example.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kmeyrick* 
Which is why I said kids aren't banned from the bank, it's just not designed to be kid friendly and there's nothing wrong with that. If a business caters to people who want a kidfree place to go, how is that so bad?

My point is that it depends on the business. I think discrimination against children by not permitting them on the premises is a pretty tricky area, and should only be permitted for specific businesses. So the bank for example should have no option of preventing children on the premises. Bars, sure (I guess, although ours are smokefree and I took my first babe to the pub a fair bit back in the day). B&Bs, okay. But that should not extend far beyond those two types of establishments IMO.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
Well I agree with you that it should be allowed in only certain circumstances, that's why I'm not a big fan of the "bank" example.

Yeah the bank example I find highly disturbing. We start to get into territory where people are prevented from living their lives because they are parents. I don't know about you but I don't have childcare at my beck and call so I can do things like go to the bank! That's nuts.


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Yeah the bank example I find highly disturbing. We start to get into territory where people are prevented from living their lives because they are parents. I don't know about you but I don't have childcare at my beck and call so I can do things like go to the bank! That's nuts.

I'll say it again. _The bank does not prevent children from entering the premise. It just as a rule isn't a kid friendly place to be. It's a bank._

If the bank disallowed children from entering, I'd agree that would be stupid and counterproductive. Most clients have families. I'm just trying to say that plenty of businesses don't have a setup that's geared towards kids, and there's nothing wrong with that.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

omg I read what you said, thanks.

Could you read what I am saying? This idea that it's fine for businesses to prevent children, which many people have said, is a slippery slope. And it does begin to enter into 'discrimination on the basis of family status' territory.

The fact the bank is not 'set up for children' has no bearing on the conversation IMO, nobody is saying there should be bubbles and lollipops everywhere.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I think vacation things like B&B's are fine, and as I mentioned earlier in the thread, you can find "kid-free" hotels/B&B's/Guest Houses all over the WORLD. Not just the bad ol' US as some people would like us to believe.









And I think that having a rule about "no kids in strip clubs" is a good idea...b/c again...some children need protection from their own parents lack of decent judgment. Same with violent movies at the theater. Some parents do not "get" it, and if a rule needs to be made that a small child shouldn't watch someone getting hacked to pieces, then I have no problem with that.

But obviously banks - while they may not be "fun" for kids - should never be a kid-free zone. I'm not even a fan of kid-free restaurants (and I"m not sure if they exist). We have taken DS to a fancy restauarant before and he was a really good and quiet boy, but if he got even a tiny bit disruptive we would not stay (again, you can't count on all parents to have this type of good judgment unfortunately)

I just find the B&B thing to be absolutely fine, though. Also, I think some resorts are no-kid places, and that is also fine.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
This is the real issue. While our kids might be the center of our personal universe, it's extremely unrealistic to expect them to be the center of every one else's universe. A mother's idea of "fussing quietly" or "joyful squeals at play" are just irritating noises to those who are not the parent of that child, and are not wanted in a B&B, spa or other establishment where the ambience is meant to be quiet and relaxing.

I might add non-stop yacking and screeching of a teen and pre-teen to that list of noises. Can you tell they are getting on my nerves this snow-bound Saturday morning?







Wish I was in a B&B in Vermont right now...

I think the difference here for some of us, is that I don't expect all the spaces in my accommodation to be "relaxing". If I'm eating breakfast with 10 other people, I'm going to expect some noise, regardless of the ages of said people. The only place I expect quiet is in my room. And again, I usually have more problems with adults than children. (why do people sleep with the TV on!)

And many spa's allow children if they are behaving appropriately. (The sextuplets on TLC's Jon and Kate Plus 8 just had pedicures. They are 4)


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

When I take my kids to the bank I am there with them for all of 5 minutes, some banks with long lines may keep you there longer I know. But not the whole weekend. When I am there without my kids I am not expecting peaceful surroundings and a sense of tranquility. I have one goal in mind, and one only, to do my business and get the heck out of there. I don't like banking, with or without kids, it's a pain in the ass even if I'm there to deposit money or some other positive thing. It's not comparable to a romantic weekend get away with my spouse.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
I like "no kids" rules b/c it is clearcut. If a business were to say "no tantrums" (as an example) I can just imagine the headaches it would cause them.

B&B Owner: I'm sorry, m'aam. Your daughter is throwing a tantrum. That's against our rules. I'm going to have to ask you to leave.

Mother: That's not a tantrum! She's just a tiny bit upset! But I would NOT define that as a "tantrum."

B&B Owner: Well it seems to be a tantrum to me. And other guests have complained.

Mother: I am telling you this is NOT a tantrum. She threw a tantrum last week, and THAT was a tantrum. This is NOT a tantrum.

B&B Owner: *sigh* It's a tantrum. It really is.

Mother: Well I'm going to sue you b/c this is not a tantrum.

It just makes no logical sense. What YOU as a parent (general you obviously) may feel is fine and dandy behavior, may not in reality be fine behavior to a B&B owner.

That's why the No Kids thing makes so much sense. No. Kids. It's easy.

Mom: It's not a tantrum - She's just "expressing her negative emotions". My child is ALLOWED to express her emotions wherever she wants. What are you, some kind of child hater?


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
omg I read what you said, thanks.

Could you read what I am saying? This idea that it's fine for businesses to prevent children, which many people have said, is a slippery slope. And it does begin to enter into 'discrimination on the basis of family status' territory.

The fact the bank is not 'set up for children' has no bearing on the conversation IMO, nobody is saying there should be bubbles and lollipops everywhere.

Then why do you find the bank example "disturbing?" I'm trying to say that we have businesses all around us that cater to adults, and it's not actually a problem.

And in this country at least, businesses more often than not cater to families. Why? Because the majority of adults with money also have families. So there are more family restaurants, vacation destinations, etc. A few businesses find a niche market in being kid-free. I don't see how the vast majority of people will be discriminated against in favor of the very few people who don't want to be around kids. That would be totally bad for business. Most restaurants, for example, do have a kids menu. Why? Cause they actually want family business. A few restaurants make a profit by serving very expensive food and having a very adult atmosphere. I don't see how one is better than the other.


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
This is the real issue. While our kids might be the center of our personal universe, it's extremely unrealistic to expect them to be the center of every one else's universe. A mother's idea of "fussing quietly" or "joyful squeals at play" are just irritating noises to those who are not the parent of that child, and are not wanted in a B&B, spa or other establishment where the ambience is meant to be quiet and relaxing.

I might add non-stop yacking and screeching of a teen and pre-teen to that list of noises. Can you tell they are getting on my nerves this snow-bound Saturday morning?







Wish I was in a B&B in Vermont right now...

I am asked frequently- by parents- how I can stand being in the class room all day long with 29 little kids. To me it's fun. I like my job. (Yes, there are very annoying bits). But it's true that even light noise from a kid can be irritating to others. Sad, but true.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I think we are talking past each other.

I dont care if places don't hand out bubblegum to kids.

I do not think banks, or most types of stores and services really, should be permitted to exclude children. B&Bs are an exception to this, but I am not comfortable with just 'letting the free market decide.' It is discrimination, that really can't be argued IMO, and perhaps it is acceptable in certain circumstances. But those circumstances should be greatly limited, by law.


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## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Mom: It's not a tantrum - She's just "expressing her negative emotions". My child is ALLOWED to express her emotions wherever she wants. What are you, some kind of child hater?


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I think we are talking past each other.

I dont care if places don't hand out bubblegum to kids.

*I do not think banks, or most types of stores and services really, should be permitted to exclude children.* B&Bs are an exception to this, but I am not comfortable with just 'letting the free market decide.' It is discrimination, that really can't be argued IMO, and perhaps it is acceptable in certain circumstances. But those circumstances should be greatly limited, by law.

Who is saying they should?

How is it discrimination? Adults who are paying have the right to enter a business, but it's a private business and can therefore require only adults to enter. That's fine. And the free market actually works in favor of families. Look up the restaurants in your phone book. Most of them will be designed to be very kid friendly. Who is getting hurt by the one or two places that aren't?


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kmeyrick* 
Who is saying they should?

How is it discrimination? Adults who are paying have the right to enter a business, but it's a private business and can therefore require only adults to enter. That's fine. And the free market actually works in favor of families. Look up the restaurants in your phone book. Most of them will be designed to be very kid friendly. Who is getting hurt by the one or two places that aren't?

Well, it seems you are saying they should, in the second paragraph of this post. ??

It is age discrimination, and it is discrimination against parents on the basis of family status. The free market does not get to decide human rights, I dont care if it's currently in favour of families or not. Private businesses serving the public are public places, ask me how I know (I recently was harassed for nursing in a restaurant, I was protected by human rights).

As I said, I don't care about one or two fancy restaurants. I don't care about B&Bs. But beyond that yeah, I start to care.

I live in a university town, and I don't enjoy frat boys. Their whoop whoops of camaraderie and their overloud engines do not delight me. But can I keep them out of restaurants/banks/grocery stores? No. Until that day comes, nobody should be able to keep children out either.


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Well, it seems you are saying they should, in the second paragraph of this post. ??

It is age discrimination, and it is discrimination against parents on the basis of family status. The free market does not get to decide human rights, I dont care if it's currently in favour of families or not. Private businesses serving the public are public places, ask me how I know (I recently was harassed for nursing in a restaurant, I was protected by human rights).

As I said, I don't care about one or two fancy restaurants. I don't care about B&Bs. But beyond that yeah, I start to care.

I live in a university town, and I don't enjoy frat boys. Their whoop whoops of camaraderie and their overloud engines do not delight me. But can I keep them out of restaurants/banks/grocery stores? No. Until that day comes, nobody should be able to keep children out either.

No one is saying that anyone should be kept out of banks and grocery stores. We're talking about restaurants and B&Bs, places that cater to a particular audience. Places of leisure. Some pricey boutiques with fine china maybe. The bank was just a plain, everyday example of a place that's boring for a child to be, yet isn't discriminatory because it is marketed to adults. The bank thing has been totally taken out of context.

Obviously, anyone can go to a grocery store. But some businesses have a very different purpose than to serve the community at large.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kmeyrick* 
We're talking about restaurants and B&Bs, places that cater to a particular audience. Places of leisure. Some pricey boutiques with fine china maybe.

Those places as childfree are fine with me.

But it does need to be limited, legally, not simply by the market, IMO.


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Those places as childfree are fine with me.

But it does need to be limited, legally, not simply by the market, IMO.

It probably already is. I know grocery stores are required to be accessible to the disabled.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I recently had a situation where my infant was in hospital for three days, and the nursing staff attempted to prevent my 5 year old from staying overnight with us (or alternatively pressured me to leave my infant! Over my dead body!). I called age discrimination and cited the Family Centred Policy of the hospital. My 5 year old has anxiety anyway, and I am a single mother so had she not stayed, she would have been in a different bed in a different house which would have been very hard for her during an already upsetting situation. She was perfectly behaved, and stayed in our room the entire time, got dropped off at bedtime and picked up in the mornings. But the drama and hostility I dealt with was unreal. It was like she was not really a person, that her needs did not matter, that she must be a vector of germs because she is a child. The whole thing was quite horrible and I did feel that she was dehumanized and that we experienced unfair treatment.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShwarmaQueen* 
I think it's fair to say "No children" only because I don't know even a single child that can go 24-48 hours without any disturbance/outburst (happy or upset). IMO, it's much better business (and practical) for the B&B just to state what they mean, and not let people show up thinking their kids are welcome or won't act up (and then do) and forfeit their money. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't have that kinda $$.









I just checked your sig, and your child is not quite four.. which I think may be part of the reason you would say this. I do think this is probably true of most 3 year olds, sure, but our prime B & B years were when Rain was 6-8, and she certainly could go days without an outburst then. Honestly, B&Bs were like a dream come true for her... sort of like a real-life Playmobil Victorian House experience. So, yeah, we would have much preferred that B&B owners spell out their expectations and let us decide if they fit...

The only thing that was close to a problem was when the guy served fruit soup for breakfast and she didn't like it, and he kind of pushed it, in a jokey sort of way, but still... it was uncomfortable. Never mind that I also wasn't eating the fruit soup...

Now we're dealing with our local mall, which kicks out unaccompanied teens who are under 17 at 3 pm Fridays and Saturdays... Rainy and a friend (the daughter of an MDC member, too) were shopping there a couple of weeks ago and got kicked out, and it was really upsetting... they were there buying Christmas gifts, with money they earned themselves, and they were 15 and 16... I think it bites.

Dar


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 

Now we're dealing with our local mall, which kicks out unaccompanied teens who are under 17 at 3 pm Fridays and Saturdays... Rainy and a friend (the daughter of an MDC member, too) were shopping there a couple of weeks ago and got kicked out, and it was really upsetting... they were there buying Christmas gifts, with money they earned themselves, and they were 15 and 16... I think it bites.

Dar

Yes I think that is really wrong as well.

We had an incident this week in Ten Thousand Villages, my 5 year old was touching the musical instruments and I was not lording over her. She was picking out a maraka for her dad, and she is a very careful child. A worker was very passive aggressive with us and said in a fake singsongy voice, 'Children unsupervised with the instruments... You break it you buy it.' I said to her, 'Oh, you are rude.' We left and bought our maraka at another store up the street.

You don't get to treat children like crap just because they are of a certain age. I get that children are often xyz, but there is also the thing about looking at what is happening in front of you, don't treat someone as less than human simply because they are a child. My daughter was very upset, and kept telling me that she was being careful, really took it on as her responsibility somehow. I told her of course she was, the woman was rude, some people don't treat kids properly.

So crappy man.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shonahsmom* 
Okay people. Seriously, one last time not allowing children in certain environments =/= racism. And the insistence that it is is patently offensive.

That's not what I meant by my post, sorry if it came across that way. I meant it to be more abstract...

Fact: B&B's are usually businesses held in people's private homes.

Fact: We have the legal right to say who does and does not enter our homes.

So, yes, they have every right not to welcome children into their homes. But each individual also has the right to exclude ANYONE from their homes-- blacks, jews, the elderly, men with facial hair, redheads, whatever.

My question is more of a philosophical one, I guess: Where do we draw the line when it comes to what is considered discrimination, and how do we decide when, where, and what type of discrimination is acceptable?

I apologize again if my post came across as condoning racial or religious discrimination, that was not my intention.


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frontierpsych* 
My question is more of a philosophical one, I guess: Where do we draw the line when it comes to what is considered discrimination, and how do we decide when, where, and what type of discrimination is acceptable?

Didn't come across that way. I agree 100%. This is not even close to being like racial discrimination.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 

The only thing that was close to a problem was when the guy served fruit soup for breakfast and she didn't like it, and he kind of pushed it, in a jokey sort of way, but still... it was uncomfortable. Never mind that I also wasn't eating the fruit soup...


He probably didn't like it either, and was worried he'd get stuck with the leftovers when he saw you both not eating it.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I recently had a situation where my infant was in hospital for three days, and the nursing staff attempted to prevent my 5 year old from staying overnight with us (or alternatively pressured me to leave my infant! Over my dead body!). I called age discrimination and cited the Family Centred Policy of the hospital. My 5 year old has anxiety anyway, and I am a single mother so had she not stayed, she would have been in a different bed in a different house which would have been very hard for her during an already upsetting situation. She was perfectly behaved, and stayed in our room the entire time, got dropped off at bedtime and picked up in the mornings. But the drama and hostility I dealt with was unreal. It was like she was not really a person, that her needs did not matter, that she must be a vector of germs because she is a child. The whole thing was quite horrible and I did feel that she was dehumanized and that we experienced unfair treatment.

Kudos to you for holding your ground!







I hope your baby is doing better!

We blessedly haven't had this situation. However, when my youngest was a baby we were visiting a relative in the hospital, and another visitor and I stepped out of the room during a procedure and were chatting in the hallway, as I nursed dd in the sling ... and a nurse came up and said I couldn't do that in the hallway, that I needed to go back into the room.

So happens the procedure was done by then (or else something happened that there was more room for us by then, I can't remember for sure), and I didn't want to make waves because of my relative -- but it was just really weird and rather irritating, too.


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## newlynaturaldad (Dec 20, 2008)

That is not right in my eyes. I understand where they are coming from with the romantic aspect but wherever my children are not allowed, I am not either.


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## Lemon Juice (Jun 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlynaturaldad* 
That is not right in my eyes. I understand where they are coming from with the romantic aspect but wherever my children are not allowed, I am not either.









:


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## Tizzy (Mar 16, 2007)

I have only read the first page of replies...but I don't think they were rude whatsoever - just direct.
And I also completely understand why children would not be allowed, as others have said.
This is someones personal HOME, usually decorated and not at all child-proof.

Plus I were staying at a B&B with DH as a romantic getaway, I wouldn't want to be disturbed by children of other guests.


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## Bellejar (Oct 2, 2005)

My parents have a bed and breakfast and they do not accept children under 8. The problem is the rooms are very close to one another and toddlers and children are loud and if you don't have children you are not empathetic to people with children when they wake you up at night or bang around in the morning.

People pay my parents money to get away from their lives and have a relaxing weekend sans kids all the time. It is possible that allowing someone to bring their baby could really ruin someone elses vacation. Also, they are not baby-proofed at all everything is antique and glass. I would rather go somewhere that catered to families when I go on vacation. I have found renting a private residence to be a better way to go. You get a kitchen and I don't have to worry about my kids bothering other guests.

Anyway, although I empathise with your predicament. I think if their particular house is not set up for kids you'll be better off somewhere else anyway. My parents do not have guests when we come to visit for the same reasons. I guess I get this one from the side of the parent and the visitor


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kmeyrick* 
Which is why I said kids aren't banned from the bank, it's just not designed to be kid friendly and there's nothing wrong with that.

I don't think anyone is arguing that places should all CATER to children or be child-friendly. I like lots of places that are not kid friendly (though strangely, I suppose, my kids love them, too). I simply disagree with businesses that REFUSE children on the grounds that they are children.

My kids go to get their nails done at a spa with my mom, they enjoy a fancy meal at a very-kid-unfriendly restaurant on New Year's Day every year, they come to all kinds of movies with their dad and I (and enjoy them), etc. I don't expect or even want any of those places to be kid-friendly, with cookies or candy or whatever else kids are supposed to appreciate. I just don't want them to turn my well-behaved children away simply because they haven't reached some arbitrary birthday yet.

Quote:

But strip clubs, by their very nature, are meant for adults. Both the owners and patrons want it to be that way. Even if it were legal I think it'd be HIGHLY inappropriate.
And that can be your decision to make, as your kids' parent. It would likely be mine as well . . . but I do think that decision belongs in the hands of parents, not the law.

Dar and Thismama, I am really sorry to hear about the experiences your kids had recently.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

And that can be your decision to make, as your kids' parent. It would likely be mine as well . . . but I do think that decision belongs in the hands of parents, not the law.
I think we need to remember not ALL parents place there child/children "first" like those here...Some laws are there to protect the kds and there sadly are many parents who wouldn't think twice about putting there inocent kids in harms way if it means they can have a "good" time.

Deanna


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

It is common practice at B&B's to not take children(some take older kids).

Personally I wouldn't want to take DD to a B&B, it would be torture. she's a crazy 2 year old and it would suck. I would be looking for a hotel with a pool, so that we all could have fun. Being in someone's home with a toddler seems extremely trying. I also went on vacation to Mexico last year when DD was 15 months and that was pretty awful, we stayed at a place that was more adult centered and spent 10 days trying to keep her from jumping in the non-gated pool-real fun.


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## 5796 (Oct 19, 2002)

i know it stings when we hear "No Kids"

but I do understand it on many levels.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
Denmark! That's it. Yeah, I think it's awesome. ANd it's great that they feel it's so safe. OMG, I can't even imagine leaving my kid outside like that, but it's a really neat tradition.

I feel safe leaving my kids in situations that others feel uncomfortable with, and I have gotten negative feedbacka bout it. It's always a risk, no matter where you are, I think it's good to keep that in mind.


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

I have not read all the reviews, but you know you cant take a toddler to the elvis museum right? Research it before you go and you will find all sorts of good info on how it is NOT baby friendly, will save you time and hassle!


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## Calee (May 10, 2008)

Nope, doesn't offend me either.

When a place or event is "no kids", I don't go. MY life has changed forever because I have a baby. That doesn't mean everyone else's life has to revolve around me and my baby.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2cutiekitties* 
I have not read all the reviews, but you know you cant take a toddler to the elvis museum right? Research it before you go and you will find all sorts of good info on how it is NOT baby friendly, will save you time and hassle!

Graceland? my son went with us when he was 19 months old, and we had a great time.


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I don't think anyone is arguing that places should all CATER to children or be child-friendly. I like lots of places that are not kid friendly (though strangely, I suppose, my kids love them, too). I simply disagree with businesses that REFUSE children on the grounds that they are children.

My kids go to get their nails done at a spa with my mom, they enjoy a fancy meal at a very-kid-unfriendly restaurant on New Year's Day every year, they come to all kinds of movies with their dad and I (and enjoy them), etc. I don't expect or even want any of those places to be kid-friendly, with cookies or candy or whatever else kids are supposed to appreciate. I just don't want them to turn my well-behaved children away simply because they haven't reached some arbitrary birthday yet.

And that can be your decision to make, as your kids' parent. It would likely be mine as well . . . but I do think that decision belongs in the hands of parents, not the law.

Dar and Thismama, I am really sorry to hear about the experiences your kids had recently.

Jessy, would you like someone to decide who's kids can come and which ones can't based on that favoritism? Would you like someone else to define "well behaved?" Cause I've seen that definition vary widely. I think it's okay to refuse kids on the premises because you really can't predict which ones are oh so mature for their age. I was very well behaved usually (except for the damned bank) but guess what? Sometimes it alienates the other customers who, for whatever reason, want to be away from kids. If those people make up a large number of your clientele, then you might want to consider making your business child-free.

There are plenty of other places for families to go to.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Just jumping in to share a B&B experience...

When dd was about 5, we went to a B&B with her. I didn't know about the "no kids" thing when I called, and they told me they don't normally host children. They explained why (antiques that can be easily broken, don't want kids jumping on the bed, etc) and asked my about my dd. I told them about dd, who is a very cautious child, and is very respectful of other's property. She also really appreciates small, quiet settings (over large hotels/motels). They agreed that it sounded like she would do fine, and we made the reservation.

It went great, and dd had a wonderful time. They had some videos and board/card games in the living room that we could use in our room, so they did even have some kid entertainment. When we checked out, they said that dd was welcome back at any time









Now, it would not have gone that way when dd was 1-3 yo. SHe was a big time tantrummer at that age (multiple meltdowns a day), and being away from home was a trigger for her tantrums. Motels with concrete walls were our friends for that period time. Likewise, I might never bring ds to a B&B, as he is shaping up to be a pretty active, semi destructive little guy







I can understand why B&B owners would not want dc who act like my dd at age 1-3, or my son acts now, at a B&B. But maybe some B&B owners would be flexible if you just have a conversation with them? Or maybe the conversation will reveal that it really isn't a place you want to take your dc (expectations of behavior that are too high for your dc to meet).


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
Graceland? my son went with us when he was 19 months old, and we had a great time.

hmmm, I was going to go earlier this year and I read some site with hundreds of reviews, a lot of them complaining about how it was not baby/toddler friendly. Maybe it was just not stroller friendly?


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

I don't have a problem with no-children venues, and I love kids. Reading one of posts about never banning children, leaving it up to the parents - this gives me the chills. Can you imagine going to a strip club (I don't, but just imagine) and have a 5 year old next to you watching the girls strip? Or going to a X rated movie with a family sitting next to you with multiple aged kids? Or having a special candlelight dinner with a screaming baby? We usually do family things, since I have two small grandkids, but I do enjoy my time with my dh away from the noise and hustle of little ones. Not all children are as "well behaved" as their parents think they are...........


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## Baby_Vol (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlynaturaldad* 
That is not right in my eyes. I understand where they are coming from with the romantic aspect but *wherever my children are not allowed, I am not either.*

This is how I feel as well.

I didn't know that about B&Bs. Good to know. Now I know where not to spend my money.

I do feel it is discrimination. My child is a person. Wherever I go, he is allowed as well. I am his Mom. Also, DD better be allowed where I am considering she is a nursling.

I wouldn't raise a huge stink, but I do vote very well with my pocketbook, especially in this economy.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2cutiekitties* 
hmmm, I was going to go earlier this year and I read some site with hundreds of reviews, a lot of them complaining about how it was not baby/toddler friendly. Maybe it was just not stroller friendly?

Well it's Elvis' home, it's not the Met, it doesn't have an elevator it has stairs it doesn't have long wide hallways. My son was in the sling when we toured the inside of the main residence, but for the parts outside he walked around with us and did great. I think we spent about 2 hours there.

Seriously for those who have never been, Graceland is freaking awesome! One of those places that if you are within 100 or 150 miles on your way too or from somewhere it is worth going out of your way to attend.


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## baltic_ballet (May 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I don't think anyone is arguing that places should all CATER to children or be child-friendly. I like lots of places that are not kid friendly (though strangely, I suppose, my kids love them, too). I simply disagree with businesses that REFUSE children on the grounds that they are children.

My kids go to get their nails done at a spa with my mom, they enjoy a fancy meal at a very-kid-unfriendly restaurant on New Year's Day every year, they come to all kinds of movies with their dad and I (and enjoy them), etc. I don't expect or even want any of those places to be kid-friendly, with cookies or candy or whatever else kids are supposed to appreciate. I just don't want them to turn my well-behaved children away simply because they haven't reached some arbitrary birthday yet.

And that can be your decision to make, as your kids' parent. It would likely be mine as well . . . but I do think that decision belongs in the hands of parents, not the law.

Dar and Thismama, I am really sorry to hear about the experiences your kids had recently.


Jessy,

The B &B operator doesn't know you from a bar of soap why should they take your word for it that your kids are going to behave? Parents could lie and say their kids are well behaved just so they could obtain the accommodation and when they get there the kids could run riot and disturb all the other guests or they could be in an unfamiliar setting get wound up and misbehave. It's their property they can run it as they see fit

There are plenty of other places that accommodate kids, not every place has to accommodate kids.

I have seven kids at home and there are times when my husband and I just want to get away and be child free which is when B & B's are fantastic to catch up some sleep and some special time alone.

Here in Australia we have resorts, camping and caravan parks that cater especially for families with playground equipment, pools, water parks, games rooms and kids clubs to keep the kids entertained.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kmeyrick* 
Jessy, would you like someone to decide who's kids can come and which ones can't based on that favoritism? Would you like someone else to define "well behaved?"

I think "well-behaved" depends on the environment. When I take my kids to a fancy restaurant, I expect them to create no more of a disturbance than the average adult there . . . using quiet voices, staying in their seats (or on my lap when they were smaller), etc. Same when we go to the movies, or the theater.

I think businesses s_hould_ set expectations for behavior . . . but they shouldn't assume that certain people are unable to comply simply because they're young.

baltic_ballet:

Quote:

The B &B operator doesn't know you from a bar of soap why should they take your word for it that your kids are going to behave? Parents could lie and say their kids are well behaved just so they could obtain the accommodation and when they get there the kids could run riot and disturb all the other guests or they could be in an unfamiliar setting get wound up and misbehave. It's their property they can run it as they see fit
I don't expect anyone to take my word for it, and they are welcome to ask my kids and I to leave if they don't like our behavior. But as another poster said, I voice my opinion with my wallet, and I'm not spending money at a place the rejects my children for being young.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

I don't expect anyone to take my word for it, and they are welcome to ask my kids and I to leave if they don't like our behavior. But as another poster said, I voice my opinion with my wallet, and I'm not spending money at a place the rejects my children for being young.
This makes sense but what I'm getting the vibe from some of the posts is a place should never have a no child policy in the first place. I disagree with this as this point in our lifes traveling overnigth without our DD would not be an option we would choose we'd not be looking into places intended for "couples only" but I wouldn't stage a protest for the B&B across the street that was.

Deanna


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## baltic_ballet (May 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
This makes sense but what I'm getting the vibe from some of the posts is a place should never have a no child policy in the first place. I disagree with this as this point in our lifes traveling overnigth without our DD would not be an option we would choose we'd not be looking into places intended for "couples only" but I wouldn't stage a protest for the B&B across the street that was.

Deanna


Correct me if I am wrong Jessy, but I got the vibe from your posts that you think that no place should ever have a no child policy?

Which I dissagree with as there are some places that are not suitable for children.

Sorry I dont mean to pick on you Jessy.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

I think businesses should set expectations for behavior . . . but they shouldn't assume that certain people are unable to comply simply because they're young.
sometimes time and experiece has told them. My BIL got married this past summer my DH I and my DD traveled to the wedding and we along with another sister to the groom and the best mans family and the bride and her parents stayed in a rented out victorian house. This place is ussually not open to kids but the family rented out the entire hme for the wedding duration so we weren't risking disturbing anyone but us. It was a large beautiful home and not overly filled with antiques or other breakables (or they'd been removed in anticipation) but along with the charm of an older place were things like squeeky floors open windows with no screens heaters and vents with no guards heavy doors that locked from one side requring keys to open.. During our stay we had several kids my 5 year old another baby (6 months or so) another 2 year old and for much of the time my twin nieces who were staying at another place but were at the house much of the time. There was never one single tiny incident of misbehavior from my child and I can't recall it from the others.. but the kids played polietly in the rooms upstairs and every tiny foot step resounded through the entire home the baby fussed if he was hungry or needed to be changed and all the other normal for infants to fuss things. IT happended at various hours expected nothing horrid but yes it was very noticeble. It was a lovely hotel stay because it felt very much like being in a home with all the noise and such of a home but thats exactly what many people are looking to avoid they don't want the sounds of pattering feet and kids asking for another bedtime story or a baby fussing at 2am to be fed and I can very much understand while someone has decided that they want there establishment for adults only.

Deanna


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I've seen this pre-kid in B&Bs and was surprised by it then. I don't get this policy, and I agree they should be more polite and even apologetic about it.

I probably wouldn't take my 5,3, and 1 year old to one (and yes some would, hence the policy) but one child, sure. I would have taken my oldest when he was younger. He slept with us, ate on our lap in places with no highchair, was tended to when he cried so he stopped. No big deal. It just seems like they're ASSUMING that all kids are going to be loud and scream and need massive gear and what not, and they don't always.

I also don't think of them as couples getaways at all, but rather just cozy alternatives to hotels.


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## grniys (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
I've seen this pre-kid in B&Bs and was surprised by it then. I don't get this policy, and I agree they should be more polite and even apologetic about it.

I probably wouldn't take my 5,3, and 1 year old to one (and yes some would, hence the policy) but one child, sure. I would have taken my oldest when he was younger. He slept with us, ate on our lap in places with no highchair, *was tended to when he cried so he stopped. No big deal. It just seems like they're ASSUMING that all kids are going to be loud and scream and need massive gear and what not, and they don't always.*

I also don't think of them as couples getaways at all, but rather just cozy alternatives to hotels.

(bolding mine)

But the fact is that babies do cry. And while I believe you tended to your ds quickly so he didn't cry long, he still did cry. And I'm sure others noticed. It's not JUST about the huge temper tantrums and screaming fits and hours of crying. It's the little things that parent's tend to just forget about as a part of parenting. To someone looking to get away from kids for a weekend or however long, I doubt they want to hear a baby fuss for even a minute.

That's why there are kid free places to vacation. Not just because kids are going to be loud and scream, but because they are kids and they will make noise and sometimes a person just wants to be away from it.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

You know I almost edited it again b/c I didn't want to come off sounding like my child was perfect b/c I tended to him with my brilliant AP habits.







He was actually a horrible sleeper, but I just recall my dad commenting on sleepovers there that he never heard him.

Yeah, I agree, kids do cry. They fuss. They tantrum sometimes, and I am the first to say that this is normal to some extent even when we are doing all we can for them. But I still don't feel that kids should therefore be not allowed in places. Kids are part of society. Sure you could cross a line, you could be inconsiderate. Many people are (as are they without kids). I don't take my kids to nice restaurants, and I'm very self-conscious about their disturbing people in public. And yet I would really resent not even being able to make that judgment call myself about whether or not we could go somewhere. And with overnight accomodations? I just don't see B&Bs as a Sandals resort exactly.







:


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

And that can be your decision to make, as your kids' parent. It would likely be mine as well . . . but I do think that decision belongs in the hands of parents, not the law.
No way. I'm Libertarian. I want the government to leave me alone. But I've both visited strip clubs when my sister worked there and done childcare for strippers and escorts. They are not places for children.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tracy* 
i know it stings when we hear "No Kids"

but I do understand it on many levels.

That's how I feel.

It sometimes leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I've never had a personal issue with establishments or events having adult only policies.

My hubby and I often frequent B&Bs for a get away, and I personally would not be happy to spend $$$ to see or hear anyone's kid.

Caveat - we pick child free places to attend. And I think they should be up front about it to save families travelling with kids the time and aggravation.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

But the fact is that babies do cry. And while I believe you tended to your ds quickly so he didn't cry long, he still did cry. And I'm sure others noticed. It's not JUST about the huge temper tantrums and screaming fits and hours of crying. It's the little things that parent's tend to just forget about as a part of parenting. To someone looking to get away from kids for a weekend or however long, I doubt they want to hear a baby fuss for even a minute.
exactly, I know during the wedding I heard the baby cry each night jsut a few seconds or a minute or so I could also clearly tell the parents were attending and there was little fussing but the mommy instinct in me meant I was wide awake and alert with each cry. The brides parents noticed I think more because they've been without kids long enough there not used to such sounds again no one seems to be rude or suggest the baby was overly bothersome but I can see how some looking for a quiet getaway would be "bothered" by simple cries.

Deanna


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
You know I almost edited it again b/c I didn't want to come off sounding like my child was perfect b/c I tended to him with my brilliant AP habits.







He was actually a horrible sleeper, but I just recall my dad commenting on sleepovers there that he never heard him.

Yeah, I agree, kids do cry. They fuss. They tantrum sometimes, and I am the first to say that this is normal to some extent even when we are doing all we can for them. But I still don't feel that kids should therefore be not allowed in places. Kids are part of society. Sure you could cross a line, you could be inconsiderate. Many people are (as are they without kids). I don't take my kids to nice restaurants, and I'm very self-conscious about their disturbing people in public. And yet I would really resent not even being able to make that judgment call myself about whether or not we could go somewhere. And with overnight accomodations? I just don't see B&Bs as a Sandals resort exactly.







:

some B&B are quite pricy we payed almost $260 for the one DH and I stayed in on our wedding night..(roms rated from around $165-$400 normally) the Victorian house we stayed in for the wedding ran like $950 or so each night (to rent the entire home 6 bedrooms rooms) and they got a "deal".

Deanna


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

And yet I would really resent not even being able to make that judgment call myself about whether or not we could go somewhere.
And I feel the establishment that exists purely as a quiet get away for couples has a right to make a judgment call of there own to weather or not they want children. We have the right to find a diffrent place to stay.

Deanna


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Yep. And I would never go to a place like that and spend my money if I were going without my kids. I do go to restaurants and occasionally grown up movies with my dh and manage to never be disturbed by children, despite the lack of a ban of them at the front door.


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## PJsmomma (Apr 21, 2003)

My husband and I have gone to bed and breakfasts many times pre-child.

I totally get the no children thing! Since I knew that most don't take children, I called ahead to some when we were planning a trip.
My son was 6 mo. old and we finally found one that was happy to take us with him. We had gone through some sort of booking agency but I did speak with the owner as well to be sure they didn't object to our child.
When I called to confirm, the owner said we had to bring our pack and play. I said, "We are traveling across the country and we're not bringing a pack and play. He sleeps with us."

She proceeded to lecture me about how dangerous that was and refused to let us stay there because of that! Then she wouldn't let me out of the reservation--too close to the arrival time.

So I called the agency and let it rip. I told them I don't need any lectures on my parenting style and if this was their "issue" they should have cleared it up when I made the reservation. They said they would still charge my credit card and I said, "Well you go ahead. And I will dispute it on the grounds that they refused service to me."

It never showed up on the credit card, but it sure made my blood boil;0


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PJsmomma* 
My husband and I have gone to bed and breakfasts many times pre-child.

I totally get the no children thing! Since I knew that most don't take children, I called ahead to some when we were planning a trip.
My son was 6 mo. old and we finally found one that was happy to take us with him. We had gone through some sort of booking agency but I did speak with the owner as well to be sure they didn't object to our child.
When I called to confirm, the owner said we had to bring our pack and play. I said, "We are traveling across the country and we're not bringing a pack and play. He sleeps with us."

She proceeded to lecture me about how dangerous that was and refused to let us stay there because of that! Then she wouldn't let me out of the reservation--too close to the arrival time.

So I called the agency and let it rip. I told them I don't need any lectures on my parenting style and if this was their "issue" they should have cleared it up when I made the reservation. They said they would still charge my credit card and I said, "Well you go ahead. And I will dispute it on the grounds that they refused service to me."

It never showed up on the credit card, but it sure made my blood boil;0









people have boundary issues!!!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

I'm impressed. Actually I probably would have brought the pack n play and not used it because I'm like that, but I am impressed.


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## sweetieberlin (Mar 30, 2007)

I completely understand this policy.. just because we want our children with us (I wouldnt go somewhere without mine) doesnt mean that there arent places that children dont need to be.. my idea of a b&b is a quiet cozy place to relax, and before I had ds, I wouldnt have appreciated a baby crying through, or a toddler playing/running around a romantic dinner.. etc... we actually just ran into this while trying to book a b&b, but the b&b had 2 buildings one child friendly one not..

but dont expect that because you want children there that everyone else would too


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Could the pack-n-play thing have been worries about liability? (since there were no cribs on site?)


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I don't expect anyone to take my word for it, and they are welcome to ask my kids and I to leave if they don't like our behavior. But as another poster said, I voice my opinion with my wallet, and I'm not spending money at a place the rejects my children for being young.

So you expect the business to take your word for it and _then_ kick you out, _after_ the kids have disturbed all the other customers or broken something? And I don't think it's realistic to expect children to behave like adults for an extended period of time. My mom took my sister to me to the Russian Tea Room when we were kids with a friend. We were like little old ladies. But that was only for about an hour. And not at night when we were tired. Had it been longer or later it probably would have been a different story.

And don't tell me "But _my_ kids are different. _They're_ super-duper-wuper." Because the vast majority of kids are kids and they have limits. And the bottom line is, some people just don't want to be around kids. Horrifying, I know, but it's true. Believe it or not, some of these people are parents themselves. And some businesses turn a profit by catering to that.


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## Peppermint Leaf (Jan 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kmeyrick* 
So you expect the business to take your word for it and _then_ kick you out, _after_ the kids have disturbed all the other customers or broken something? And I don't think it's realistic to expect children to behave like adults for an extended period of time. My mom took my sister to me to the Russian Tea Room when we were kids with a friend. We were like little old ladies. But that was only for about an hour. And not at night when we were tired. Had it been longer or later it probably would have been a different story.

And don't tell me "But _my_ kids are different. _They're_ super-duper-wuper." Because the vast majority of kids are kids and they have limits. And the bottom line is, some people just don't want to be around kids. Horrifying, I know, but it's true. Believe it or not, some of these people are parents themselves. And some businesses turn a profit by catering to that.


yup


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kmeyrick* 
And don't tell me "But _my_ kids are different. They're super-duper-wuper."

Well, as I already posted, a B&B _did_ accept dd as a guest based on a conversation about her personality/behavior, and she _was_ an ideal B&B guest during our stay (and was enthusiastically welcomed back anytime). That doesn't mean that she is more "super-duper" than my son who might not be an ideal B&B guest.

It would be nice if parents could be trusted to honestly judge their dc's ability to conform to B&B expectations and only bring them if they will behave appropriately, but the B&B industry has probably had the opposite experience. So, yeah, I don't blame them for having a "no children" policy, but I sure to appreciate the B&B's that are more flexible and allow for children (of any age) who fit right in.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

when a business has a no children policy do they mean no one under 18? if not it's technically no children under a certain age... how do they decide on the age? every child is different after all...


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
It would be nice if parents could be trusted to honestly judge their dc's ability to conform to B&B expectations and only bring them if they will behave appropriately, but the B&B industry has probably had the opposite experience. .

It would also be nice if children were so predictable that you could know for certain exactly how they will behave on any given weekend.









I have no desire to force my children into places where they are not welcome. It not fair to the kids or to those who don't welcome them.


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## belovedofbast (Apr 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
It would be nice if parents could be trusted to honestly judge their dc's ability to conform to B&B expectations and only bring them if they will behave appropriately, but the B&B industry has probably had the opposite experience. So, yeah, I don't blame them for having a "no children" policy, but I sure to appreciate the B&B's that are more flexible and allow for children (of any age) who fit right in.

I agree, it would be nice if parents could be trusted to make the right decision for their children and the B&B. However, I have found that many parents do not make appropriate decisions regarding their childs behaviour etc. I don't work in a B&B, but at a pool, and I have had to kick out many parents and their kids even AFTER explaining to them that they can't let their 4 year old wander the wave pool by himself more than once. They have told me that their child is FINE and behaving appropriately. I've had chairs thrown at me, I've been sworn at, threatened, etc. I've kicked kids out of the pool and then had the parents march down and tell me exactly where to go because their kids couldn't POSSIBLY have misbehaved. Yeah, right. While I am sure that many of you are capable of deciding if a B&B is suitable for your families needs, I am sure that many owners have had the opposite experience.

Also, there are people out there (couples and singles) who travel and like the ambiance of B&B's and they don't want or even particularly like kids. So why can't they have somewhere to stay that is child free so that they are able to relax fully? Isn't it alright that they can stay somewhere without children and you don't have to look at them making disgusted faces at your toddlers or being rude to you?

However, I will concede that kicking teens out of a mall at 3 pm does seem a little excessive.


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## 2mama (Feb 3, 2006)

While looking for places to stay I have found that BB usually don't allow children, however if you rent a condo, cabin, or house they almost always do. So you may want to go that route if you want a more home like place to stay. Good luck with your search!


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *belovedofbast* 
Also, there are people out there (couples and singles) who travel and like the ambiance of B&B's and they don't want or even particularly like kids. So why can't they have somewhere to stay that is child free so that they are able to relax fully? Isn't it alright that they can stay somewhere without children and you don't have to look at them making disgusted faces at your toddlers or being rude to you?

I believe that is completely the right of the B&B, and I am sure their profits would not suffer from such a policy in the US.

As a parent of a child who really loves B&Bs (and behaves completely appropriately while in them), I appreciate that there are B&Bs that _will_ give her a chance.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

As far as voting with your wallet, a lot of people do that (I would say most in fact). That's part of the reason these kid-free places are so successful.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I don't think B&Bs are successful b/c they are childfree. I think they're successful b/c they're a nice alternative to hotels, and some apparently feel they need to be childfree to maintain that. I still just find it odd, though I guess it depends for me on the location and the place. I still think they could be more tactful about it. I thought it was rude before I had kids.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

I don't see anything wrong with the B&B not accepting kids, OP. I'd just find another place to stay.

I once took dd to a movie theater. She wasn't allowed. We left and won't be going back. I will take her to a theater that does allowed children. Simple.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *baltic_ballet* 
Correct me if I am wrong Jessy, but I got the vibe from your posts that you think that no place should ever have a no child policy?

I disagree with no child policies and will not patronize businesses that have them.

kmeyrick:

Quote:

So you expect the business to take your word for it and then kick you out, after the kids have disturbed all the other customers or broken something? And I don't think it's realistic to expect children to behave like adults for an extended period of time. My mom took my sister to me to the Russian Tea Room when we were kids with a friend. We were like little old ladies. But that was only for about an hour. And not at night when we were tired. Had it been longer or later it probably would have been a different story.
I know with my own kids, it wouldn't get to that point (not because they're so super special, but because they would be having fun and enjoying themselves, and we would likely only be there long enough to sleep, dress, and eat), but yes, I do think businesses should accept children the same way they do adults, and remove them if they are a disturbance.

Maybe I'm just blessed with perfect kids . . . guess that would fit since _I_ was a perfect kid who went everywhere with _my_ parents.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I think it would be very disruptive to expect B&B's to kick out disruptive children. Wouldn't that be very likely to turn into an ugly scene? And what if the family had nowhere else to go? I don't see how a kick out policy is practical.


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## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I think it would be very disruptive to expect B&B's to kick out disruptive children. Wouldn't that be very likely to turn into an ugly scene? And what if the family had nowhere else to go? I don't see how a kick out policy is practical.

I think it would turn into a huge blow-up as per a pp's dialogue.

I.e. 'You need to leave, your child is disruptive!' then - 'No he's not!'

I can see it getting heated fast.

Having said that, I do understand why people don't appreciate child-free policies, and I can see the point about the slippery slope.

I do also enjoy child-free fancy restaurants, resorts and other geared to adult places (hedonistic vacations anyone?







)


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
when a business has a no children policy do they mean no one under 18? if not it's technically no children under a certain age... how do they decide on the age? every child is different after all...

yeah yeah yeah i know i am quoting myself.. but no one has answered and i am really curious!!


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## Peppermint Leaf (Jan 11, 2008)

There are many resorts, hotels, b & B, & cruises that only cater to a certain portion of the population .. ie adult spa resorts, adult cruises etc

There is nothing wrong with that at all .. none what so ever!

If I want to take Ds I would go on a family cruise .... and if I want to go where there are no children I might go to an adult only B & B.

I am sure, OP , that you can find a place that caters to your family.







:

My DH and I have talked about opening a B & B when we retire. IT will be 100% adult only. .. but I would also make it clear on my website so that there is no issues upon arrival.

So I do think the place the OP originally called should have made it clear on their website.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

To clarify, people's desire for child-free travel of some sort is becoming more popular (and not just to Americans). I recently read an article about this somewhere. It's in pretty high demand.

That's why I said, you can (and should) vote with your wallet if if you are offended by it, but others are also doing so, they just happen to be choosing to pay for child-free destinations, and like I said, these destinations are in pretty high demand.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
yeah yeah yeah i know i am quoting myself.. but no one has answered and i am really curious!!

I would assume 18yrs and older is considered an adult.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
I would assume 18yrs and older is considered an adult.

lol k thanks. i was jw since people were talking about disturbing others.. and well.. i hope my 16 yr will be able to be in an adult environment with out having any tantrums, outbursts, or lack of volume control.


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## kmeyrick (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
To clarify, people's desire for child-free travel of some sort is becoming more popular (and not just to Americans). I recently read an article about this somewhere. It's in pretty high demand.

That's why I said, you can (and should) vote with your wallet if if you are offended by it, but others are also doing so, they just happen to be choosing to pay for child-free destinations, and like I said, these destinations are in pretty high demand.

They're probably high in demand because they are so hard to find compared to family oriented leisure activities. If you want to go to a place that welcomes kids, go to one. You'll have a huge variety from which to choose. But I don't see why people should get upset that not _every_ single business welcomes children.

Also, if I had a B&B I wouldn't want to have an uncomfortable conversation on the phone with a parent scrutinizing the child before I allow him/her in. Can you imagine how bad for business that would be? Also, even if the kid is delightful, other customers may just not want to have them around. The parent's money is no greener than another person's.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I feel torn because I don't like whole idea behind our age-segregated society. I mean, some churches don't even welcome babies and small children in the sanctuary with their parents -- they want family members to separate and go to their specialized niches. I won't attend a church like that.

At the same time, if I were booking a place to stay on a vacation, if I knew that someplace was designed to be a quiet, romantic getaway, I wouldn't want to go there because at this point, I can't guarantee that our family would just be quiet and fade into the woodwork.

So I'd rather go someplace that's family-friendly.

So, all in all, I wouldn't have a problem with a B&B advertising itself as adult-only. I'd know to bypass that one.


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## Bellejar (Oct 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
That's ridiculous. I agree, I would not frequent a place that wouldn't allow my kids.

Businesses should set standards for behavior, not age restrictions. I can certainly see throwing a guest out who was disturbing the other patrons, no matter what the guest's age . . . but saying "no kids," assumes that all kids are the same (and awful).


Have you ever met that parent that has an "angel child" that is the worst behaved child you have ever seen. I think it is to hard to define clear standards of behavior. Having a white line rule makes it easier for the establishment to jsut say no to kids and not have to decide whose kids are up to snuff. I think it would suck to have to tell people to pack up and leave. As I posted earlier my parents have a B & B and it would not be a place I would chose to bring children. Too much antique-glass typed place even for the best behaed kids.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bellejar* 
Have you ever met that parent that has an "angel child" that is the worst behaved child you have ever seen. I think it is to hard to define clear standards of behavior. Having a white line rule makes it easier for the establishment to jsut say no to kids and not have to decide whose kids are up to snuff. I think it would suck to have to tell people to pack up and leave. As I posted earlier my parents have a B & B and it would not be a place I would chose to bring children. Too much antique-glass typed place.

i do think that if by no children then mean no one under 18 its sort of silly. i would hope my kid would be able to behave in that kind of situation well before 18.


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## Bellejar (Oct 2, 2005)

Just as a side question how many of you have actually owned a business like a bed and breakfast and had to try and enforce some determination as to what behavior was acceptable? I think this determination is way to fraught with possible bad outcomes to bother taking it on. The person above who got the chairs thrown at them would proabably back me up.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Also, I was thinking about the post where someone said it was okay with them if an adult wanted to crawl around in the equipment at a playplace with the children.

I've honestly never seen that happen -- except for one time years ago, when my neice wanted me to crawl through the tubes at Leaps-n-Bounds with her.

I didn't get very far. I've learned that it kills your knees once you're beyond a certain weight.









In the event that some adult man padded his knees and went crawling through the tubes at a children's playplace -- I honestly wouldn't feel comfortble with that.

So maybe it's okay to break some things down by age -- I just wish our world didn't go so overboard at times!


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

*Originally Posted by Jessy1019*

Quote:

That's ridiculous. I agree, I would not frequent a place that wouldn't allow my kids.

Businesses should set standards *for behavior, not age restrictions.* I can certainly see throwing a guest out who was disturbing the other patrons, no matter what the guest's age . . . but saying "no kids," assumes that all kids are the same (and awful).
So, what about the infant who wakes at 2 am crying, disrupting other guests? Or the toddler who wakes up at 3 am, wanting to play like it's 9 am?

I work at a hotel. I deal with "kid complaints" all the time. Usually, there's nothing I can do (or would do), but guests get really mad.

Guest at 3 am: "There's a baby next door crying. It's been crying for the past 15 minutes."

Me: "And?"

Guest: "It's late and I have to get up early."

Me: "Babies cry. *shrugs* There's not much I can do about that. I can't go in there and force the baby to stop crying."

And I really can't. I've kicked out my fair share of people--drunk, high, irrate, violent, etc. I only kick out families with kids when they're being purposely disruptive--the type where mom/dad just sits back and lets Little Johnny do whatever he wants.

People staying at a B&B won't have to worry about that scenario.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

I think if someone is advocating that the rules be based on specific behavior they are not thinking through the details of just how that would work.

I gave an example a few pages back. Gray areas! Different definitions of what is "acceptable! Ugliness if kicking someone out! As mentioned, WHERE would the kicked out person go?!

There just isn't really a way that a business owner could do this without creating a whole boatload of problems for themself. Better to just say, "no kids" than deal with that nightmare.

(FWIW, I think the age should be closer to 14 than 18)


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bellejar* 
Just as a side question how many of you have actually owned a business like a bed and breakfast and had to try and enforce some determination as to what behavior was acceptable? I think this determination is way to fraught with possible bad outcomes to bother taking it on. The person above who got the chairs thrown at them would proabably back me up.

Not quite, but I woked in a family restaurant so I've see a wide variety of what parents deem appropriate behaviour. Some of it just insane. I remember once we had to close off a section of the restaurant because someones "perfectly behaving" child managed to pull something partially off the wall by hanging off it creating a health hazard for others. And yes we had a play area but these peoples child was an "absolute angel" who "would never do anything damaging to someone elses property". And yes it was very well secured, it just wasn't ment to be a jungle gym.

And of course there were other families who's children were perfectly behaved, polite and probably could have even managed a fancy restaurant. But oddly enough, those parents seem to understand that no child is 100% predictable and chose to take the children somewhere where children were expected.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kmeyrick* 
Also, if I had a B&B I wouldn't want to have an uncomfortable conversation on the phone with a parent scrutinizing the child before I allow him/her in. Can you imagine how bad for business that would be? Also, even if the kid is delightful, other customers may just not want to have them around. The parent's money is no greener than another person's.

I had this conversation with a B&B owner, and it wasn't awkward or negative--certainly not worse for business than outright banning children (maybe not better, but not worse). The owner told me their concerns (antiques furniture not suited for jumping and climbing, no "kid meals", no pool/playground, etc) and asked me how dd would do in such an environment. We were both really honest, and it worked out well.

We were just looking for a place to sleep within walking distance to the sights we wanted to see (no hotels/motels in that walking distance), so the other guests only ever saw dd as we walked through the front door and directly to our room, and at breakfast where she sat and ate the same food as everyone else. It would be completely bizarre if her presence somehow ruined someone's stay. It isn't like she slept with them, lol.


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## Monda (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asianyoushi* 
hugs sorry they were a bit rude in their replies... most people think bed and breakfast as a couples retreat... so i would have totally assumed kids werent allowed..









: I know it can seem shocking, esp if they are rude about it, but imagine if you saved up for a romantic weekend w/out the little one and the place ended up sounding like a daycare, or someone's little one was prone to screaming and they didn't take steps to quiet their child (or even worse, if you had a room next to a family who believed in the CIO method).

I am sorry you were hurt by the way they worded things.







:


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I feel torn because I don't like whole idea behind our age-segregated society. I mean, some churches don't even welcome babies and small children in the sanctuary with their parents -- they want family members to separate and go to their specialized niches. I won't attend a church like that.

I recently looked into attending church again and I was absolutely shocked when I found out that some churches do not let kids stay in the sanctuary for services. I had never heard of anything like that before.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
At the same time, if I were booking a place to stay on a vacation, if I knew that someplace was designed to be a quiet, romantic getaway, I wouldn't want to go there because at this point, I can't guarantee that our family would just be quiet and fade into the woodwork.

So I'd rather go someplace that's family-friendly.

I think most parents would do the same, myself included. I just don't think most people with kids, especially loud rambunctious kids, would even want to go to some cozy quite B&B even if they were allowed. It seems like the kind that would want to go would be the type that would fit in just fine like *Hazelnut* and *sunnmama*. Most others would go somewhere with a tv in the room, a pool, and perhaps childcare.







It just seems weird to me to have an across the board "no kids" rule.

I think my favorite restaurant is a good example of this. It does not have a no kids policy. However, it is in no way child friendly...no kid's menu, no highchairs, no crayons, no music, unusual food, etc. In the dozens of times my husband and I have been there, we have seen three children, all of whom were extremely well behaved. Most people with children would feel uncomfortable there and would go elsewhere, but these parents obviously knew this would be something their kids could handle. For the restaurant, it is just unnecessary to have a no kids policy because it is just not somewhere the vast majority of parents with kids would want to go. And if they did have such a policy, those three kids and their families, all of whom appeared to be having a lovely time btw, would have missed out on a really great and unique experience.


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## Peppermint Leaf (Jan 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I feel torn because I don't like whole idea behind our age-segregated society. I mean, some churches don't even welcome babies and small children in the sanctuary with their parents -- they want family members to separate and go to their specialized niches. I won't attend a church like that.


I dont have a problem with a church who "offers" a room where you can go and still here the speaker .. if your child is being disruptive and nobody can hear anything. I appreciate that an option is offered.

I have never seen a church where they will not let you into the main sanctuary where the service is going on if you have a child.

I have sat through some service with some totally clued out parents who will not get up and walk out for a few minutes until their child settles down .. making it impossible for anyone to hear anything.









Where are these churches that don't allow children in the service with everyone else?


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

We are currently "church shopping" and have been to LOTS of churches over the last year or so, and have never been asked to sit in a separate section than DS (a toddler). If he gets loud - which he sometimes does - then we take him out of the sanctuary immediately.

But honestly, I don't think that is common AT ALL. Most churches are hurting right now, and would not offend their potential base, which is families.


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## Peppermint Leaf (Jan 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
We are currently "church shopping" and have been to LOTS of churches over the last year or so, and have never been asked to sit in a separate section than DS (a toddler). If he gets loud - which he sometimes does - then we take him out of the sanctuary immediately.

But honestly, I don't think that is common AT ALL. Most churches are hurting right now, and would not offend their potential base, which is families.

this has been my experience as well -- and I too have been to many churches.

I have seen maybe twice in many years where an usher has asked a parent if they would like to use the nursery .. but this is only because they are too clued out to get up out of their seat when their kids are screaming


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peppermint Leaf* 
Where are these churches that don't allow children in the service with everyone else?

I actually haven't been to a church that didn't "allow" children in the sanctuary (though I've heard of one like this).

When I said they don't all "welcome" little ones in the sanctuary, I was referring to churches where there's lots of urging for parents to drop children off in the nursery, and/or for nursing mothers to be directed to the "nursing mothers' room."

It's usually not as blatant as saying "no children in the sanctuary."


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I actually haven't been to a church that didn't "allow" children in the sanctuary (though I've heard of one like this).

When I said they don't all "welcome" little ones in the sanctuary, I was referring to churches where there's lots of urging for parents to drop children off in the nursery, and/or for nursing mothers to be directed to the "nursing mothers' room."

It's usually not as blatant as saying "no children in the sanctuary."










Hmmm, I really think that was a fluke. What denomination was it, just out of curiosity?

And, I too have experienced services where a parent either doesn't remove the loud child (whether crying or playing) from the service or waits waaaaaay too long, and it's really frustrating.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

this is funny b/c at my church there is a nursery and usually people use it ... but on christmas i guess they want to keep the little ones with them.. understandable in theory... but it ends up with all the dads holding the babies in the lobby lol. don't know why it's the dads but it ALWAYS is ... my dad and i wonder about this every christmas lol.


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## riverscout (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I actually haven't been to a church that didn't "allow" children in the sanctuary (though I've heard of one like this).

When I said they don't all "welcome" little ones in the sanctuary, I was referring to churches where there's lots of urging for parents to drop children off in the nursery, and/or for nursing mothers to be directed to the "nursing mothers' room."

It's usually not as blatant as saying "no children in the sanctuary."









Yes exactly. I used the words "do not let kid stay" in my post, but they don't actually explicitly forbid them, just strongly discourage them from staying...like strongly enough that you can't really bring them and feel comfortable.


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## Peppermint Leaf (Jan 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I actually haven't been to a church that didn't "allow" children in the sanctuary (though I've heard of one like this).

When I said they don't all "welcome" little ones in the sanctuary, I was referring to churches where there's lots of urging for parents to drop children off in the nursery, and/or for nursing mothers to be directed to the "nursing mothers' room."

It's usually not as blatant as saying "no children in the sanctuary."










yes, I think you will find that many churches would prefer you go into the Nursing Mothers Room if you are going to Nurse.

But I have never actually seen a mother nurse uncovered in any church service I have been in

I can see that if you prefer to nurse in the sanctuary - you might find some churches more receptive than others


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## Cardinal (Feb 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I feel torn because I don't like whole idea behind our age-segregated society. I mean, some churches don't even welcome babies and small children in the sanctuary with their parents -- they want family members to separate and go to their specialized niches. I won't attend a church like that.

At the same time, if I were booking a place to stay on a vacation, if I knew that someplace was designed to be a quiet, romantic getaway, I wouldn't want to go there because at this point, I can't guarantee that our family would just be quiet and fade into the woodwork.

So I'd rather go someplace that's family-friendly.

So, all in all, I wouldn't have a problem with a B&B advertising itself as adult-only. I'd know to bypass that one.


I am with you in feeling torn.

But, the problem is that you may be a respectful, courteous person who wouldn't take your child somewhere because you weren't sure if they would "fade into the woodwork." However, there are so many rude patrons that _would_ bring their screaming children and babies into the quiet_er_ establishments and ruin it for everyone. While I find the discrimination against children at B&Bs to be slightly off-putting, I think it is there because it only takes that one, completely rude family to ruin it for all.

I go family friendly places like you because I don't want my children to be misreble and I want to let others have a pleasant experience at whatever place we are staying. But I am mindful of others' feelings.


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## Cardinal (Feb 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karina5* 
We are currently "church shopping" and have been to LOTS of churches over the last year or so, and have never been asked to sit in a separate section than DS (a toddler). If he gets loud - which he sometimes does - then we take him out of the sanctuary immediately.

But honestly, I don't think that is common AT ALL. Most churches are hurting right now, and would not offend their potential base, which is families.

Every church we've attended have very much recommended and encouraged us to take the kids to the nursery. It's almost required... but isn't. I guess it'd be like wearing a tank top/mini skirt in the service... odd and not the norm, but you won't get ushered out.


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## Monda (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cardinal* 
I am with you in feeling torn.

But, the problem is that you may be a respectful, courteous person who wouldn't take your child somewhere because you weren't sure if they would "fade into the woodwork." *However, there are so many rude patrons that would bring their screaming children and babies into the quieter establishments and ruin it for everyone.* While I find the discrimination against children at B&Bs to be slightly off-putting, I think it is there because it only takes that one, completely rude family to ruin it for all.

I agree that this is the primary reason the rules are there. A clear case of the few who ruin it for the many. I have sat next to tons of kids at restaurants (even before I had my own little ones) who were very sweet and well behaved. Other times they have bee loud, tossed things on the floor ect...often the parents make more noise themselves by reprimanding in loud ways rather than removing their kiddo from the situation until they are behaving in a way that is appropriate for the setting.

I wish we as parents could decide what settings our kids are ready for, but since not all parents share the same views on child behavior, there will probably always have to be external guidelines to keep things consistent,


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## Cardinal (Feb 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Monda* 
I agree that this is the primary reason the rules are there. A clear case of a few ruin it for the many. I have sat next to tons of kids at restaurants (even before I had my own little ones) who were very sweet and well behaved. Other times they are loud, toss things on the floor ect... and often the parents make more noise themselves by reprimanding in loud ways rather than removing their kiddo from the situation until they are behaving in a way that is appropriate for the setting.

I wish we as parents could decide what settings our kids are ready for, but since not all parents share the same views on child behavior, there will probably always have to be external guidelines to keep things consistent,


Very well articulated. I wasn't so eloquent.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
I think my favorite restaurant is a good example of this. It does not have a no kids policy. However, it is in no way child friendly...no kid's menu, no highchairs, no crayons, no music, unusual food, etc. In the dozens of times my husband and I have been there, we have seen three children, all of whom were extremely well behaved.

I used to work at a restaurant that was just like you describe. And 99% of the kids who came to dine with their parents WERE very well-behaved.

There was one couple, however, who had a toddler who shrieked, threw silverware, and cried every. single. time. they came in. This kid was not "ready" to sit in a highchair for an hour or more, and they probably came in twice a month or so. None of the other customers ever openly complained, but you could tell by the looks they gave and the way they hurried through their meals that they didn't appreciate it a bit. And to be honest, none of the staff enjoyed waiting on them because they were detrimental to our livelihood. Other customers leaving, skipping dessert or after-dinner drinks, etc., means less money in *my* pocket at the end of the day.

Looking at it from a dollars and cents POV, it makes more sense for a B&B owner to keep the customers happy who desire a kid-free stay. You can vote with your wallet; that's fine. For every family who rejects the policy, there will be many others who happily embrace it.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bellejar* 
Have you ever met that parent that has an "angel child" that is the worst behaved child you have ever seen.

No, I guess not. The parents I know who have difficult children are well aware of it, and they handle things accordingly (not taking their children places where they will disturb others).

I realize that some parents are clueless and rude, but I don't think businesses should let them ruin things for the rest of us.

karina5:

Quote:

I think if someone is advocating that the rules be based on specific behavior they are not thinking through the details of just how that would work.
Sure I am. For one thing, the policy should discourage parents from even bringing kids who can't handle themselves appropriately. For another, it's not that hard to point to whatever posted sign you have and say, "Look, your child is disturbing other patrons. You need to leave now."

Quote:

I gave an example a few pages back. Gray areas! Different definitions of what is "acceptable! Ugliness if kicking someone out! As mentioned, WHERE would the kicked out person go?!
The establishment gets to decide what's acceptable, and who cares where the people who are kicked out go? They obviously shouldn't have been there in the first place and they can deal with the consequences of having to leave.

Quote:

(FWIW, I think the age should be closer to 14 than 18)
14?! If I had a 12 or 13 year old who couldn't conduct him or herself decently in _any_ place of business, I would be humiliated.

MayBaby2007:

Quote:

So, what about the infant who wakes at 2 am crying, disrupting other guests? Or the toddler who wakes up at 3 am, wanting to play like it's 9 am?
What about them? If the child is disturbing people, the parents need to get the kid to quiet down _immediately_ or take him/her out of the building.

My kids just didn't do that stuff . . . we have a tiny house and have had numerous overnight guests over the years, and they've always said they never heard the kids at night, they slept great, etc -- even when I would be up with them for hours at a time.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
yeah yeah yeah i know i am quoting myself.. but no one has answered and i am really curious!!

I'm sure each has there own standards the place the family rented out over the summers regualer policy was no kids under 12 years.

Deanna


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## baltic_ballet (May 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
No, I guess not. The parents I know who have difficult children are well aware of it, and they handle things accordingly (not taking their children places where they will disturb others).

I realize that some parents are clueless and rude, but I don't think businesses should let them ruin things for the rest of us.

karina5:

Sure I am. For one thing, the policy should discourage parents from even bringing kids who can't handle themselves appropriately. For another, it's not that hard to point to whatever posted sign you have and say, "Look, your child is disturbing other patrons. You need to leave now."

The establishment gets to decide what's acceptable, and who cares where the people who are kicked out go? They obviously shouldn't have been there in the first place and they can deal with the consequences of having to leave.

14?! If I had a 12 or 13 year old who couldn't conduct him or herself decently in _any_ place of business, I would be humiliated.

MayBaby2007:

What about them? If the child is disturbing people, the parents need to get the kid to quiet down _immediately_ or take him/her out of the building.

My kids just didn't do that stuff . . . we have a tiny house and have had numerous overnight guests over the years, and they've always said they never heard the kids at night, they slept great, etc -- even when I would be up with them for hours at a time.


Jessy, no child is well behaved 100% of the time







there is going to be times when kids misbehave, even older children who should know appropriate behaviour are going to make mistakes, its all part of the learning process that goes with growing up. No one is perfect not even me and I am an adult







:

If my husband and I are going to be paying top dollar for a room for the weekend we don't want to hear kids, we can hear them 24/7 at home.


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## bremen (Feb 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
My kids just didn't do that stuff . . . we have a tiny house and have had numerous overnight guests over the years, and they've always said they never heard the kids at night, they slept great, etc -- even when I would be up with them for hours at a time.

that may be true of the average houseguest.
but what about the mama in the next room, who is having a romantic night of sleep in the next room. a mama with special tuned ears that wake up when a baby breathes funny.
someone could vacuum next to my bed, and i would hardly notice, but if a baby 2 stories away whimpers, i am up in a second.
for that mama who hears every sound a baby makes, and is having that special night to herself, hearing your baby cry for 3 seconds might end her one chance to sttn.

i think most of us on these boards have fantasized about taking a night away, just one night to sleep with no one waking you for any reason.
what if some mama actually got to fulfill that dream? i wouldn't want my baby to be the one to wake her


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## avent (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
we have a tiny house and have had numerous overnight guests over the years, and they've always said they never heard the kids at night, they slept great, etc -- even when I would be up with them for hours at a time.

Do people have house guests who would say the hosts' kids kept them up all night and they slept terribly?









(Just joshing you. I'm sure your kids were fine, just making a point that having house guests who never complained could be as much a sign of having polite well-mannered guests as having polite, well-mannered children.)


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## Sheal (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Also, I was thinking about the post where someone said it was okay with them if an adult wanted to crawl around in the equipment at a playplace with the children.

I've honestly never seen that happen -- except for one time years ago, when my neice wanted me to crawl through the tubes at Leaps-n-Bounds with her.

I didn't get very far. I've learned that it kills your knees once you're beyond a certain weight.









In the event that some adult man padded his knees and went crawling through the tubes at a children's playplace -- I honestly wouldn't feel comfortble with that.

So maybe it's okay to break some things down by age -- I just wish our world didn't go so overboard at times!

I've seen it!!! I even have a picture of it!







My hubbs did it with our kids at a Mcdonalds once. I was mortified but kind of laughing at the same time because I didn't think his 200 lb frame could actually fit in there. Honestly he was retrieving our 3 year old but did it playfully so she wouldn't freak out about being removed from the play tubes when we had to leave after we were done. It happened that our two older boys were at a section and he stopped long enough for me to snap a picture at one of the Plexiglas sections where you can see through it.

It does happen under ...uhm unusually circumstances. lol


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

i never thought the adult in the play place was weird.. i mean if he/she doesn't have a child of there own in there with them its weird ... but whats wrong with playing with your kids in there? what if one wants to play but is afraid and wants you to come with them? what if it's just one kid who wants to play but wants someone to play with?


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *1littlebit* 
i never thought the adult in the play place was weird.. i mean if he/she doesn't have a child of there own in there with them its weird ... but whats wrong with playing with your kids in there? what if one wants to play but is afraid and wants you to come with them? what if it's just one kid who wants to play but wants someone to play with?

Ha! Sometimes you have to get in there out of necessity. My little one has always been pretty reckless and would tumble down steep slides in those play parks and hurt herself. So I'd have to throw myself down tubes or over fixtures in the playpark to keep her from breaking her neck. I got some looks, it was for safety but also just having fun....I'd rather participate than sit back and just watch.


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## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

Our church speficially states on the bulletin each week that, although there *is* a nursery for under 5 years old, ALL AGES are welcomed and encouraged to attend at worship, and whispers, squirms, and the occasional shriek are to be expected. They also provide "worship bags" for kids filled with crayons/coloring books/storybooks/etc. Pastor Dennis always has a special section during the sermon where the children are invited up, and he talks specifically with them about whatever the message is that week. They have a sunday school class for parents of younger children where the kids are welcome at that, as well. And I have seen one of the women who just had a baby in September nursing during service. Children are *truly* welcomed at this church - maybe because Pastor Dennis have five kids of his own.

It's one of the reasons I chose this church - if your child would rather go to the nursery, he may. If your child wants to remain with you, that's truly fine, too.


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## Bellejar (Oct 2, 2005)

What an awsome church you have!?! Way to make the kids feel special!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Karina -- I don't know if it's a denominational-thing, and I hesitate to single out specific churches -- but I've experienced and/or heard of other parents being urged to leave their little ones in the nursery, in at least a few different churches.

I'm glad you've never had this experience. However, if you're a first-time visitor they will sometimes cut you some slack. I visited for a couple of times in a church where I thought they were really cool about breastfeeding in the sanctuary, nobody'd said a word to me when I nursed our almost 2yo.

But I later learned the church policy of "no breastfeeding anywhere but the nursing mother's room" (mothers couldn't even nurse their babies in the nursery). I never would have guessed this policy, judging by how they treated me as a new visitor.

Katheek's church sounds awesome!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheal* 
I've seen it!!! I even have a picture of it!







My hubbs did it with our kids at a Mcdonalds once. I was mortified but kind of laughing at the same time because I didn't think his 200 lb frame could actually fit in there. Honestly he was retrieving our 3 year old but did it playfully so she wouldn't freak out about being removed from the play tubes when we had to leave after we were done. It happened that our two older boys were at a section and he stopped long enough for me to snap a picture at one of the Plexiglas sections where you can see through it.

It does happen under ...uhm unusually circumstances. lol









Oh, well, I honestly wouldn't feel alarmed if a Mom or Dad were in there playing with their kids. But I would kind of freak if some lone adult were just hanging around up there.


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## kiarox2002 (Aug 11, 2007)

I think that it is wonderful that some places are child free. Many people think that their children are very well behaved when, in fact, they are terrors. I was at a Christmas party recently and one guest brought her young children. She had told us a few weeks earlier how wonderfully behaved her children always were. Instead, they proceeded to jump on the host's furniture and terrorize her 15-year-old dog. The host's family tried to monitor the kids while the mom did very little. After the 2-year-old screamed in the course of throwing a tantrum for *at least* 15 minutes, the mom finally decided that they needed to leave. If this had happened while I was on a romantic vacation with my DH, I would be p*ssed.

And do you really think that your children are having a good time at a B&B? (And I'm not talking about the pp with the older daughter.) I *was* a very quiet child and taken everywhere with my mom from a young age. I can remember being at adult parties around age 5 being bored out of my mind! A family vacation should be fun for everyone. Why would you want your kids to have to be on their best behavior (super quiet, not allowed to touch anything, not running around and playing)? Isn't it their vacation too?


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kiarox2002* 
I think that it is wonderful that some places are child free. Many people think that their children are very well behaved when, in fact, they are terrors.

Recently at a restaurant, I had to keep a friend's child from stabbing DD in the eye with a butter knife and her mom was sitting right next to her, just oblivious to the whole thing. Maybe we all have different definitions of well-behaved?


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kiarox2002* 
And do you really think that your children are having a good time at a B&B? (And I'm not talking about the pp with the older daughter.) I *was* a very quiet child and taken everywhere with my mom from a young age. I can remember being at adult parties around age 5 being bored out of my mind! A family vacation should be fun for everyone. Why would you want your kids to have to be on their best behavior (super quiet, not allowed to touch anything, not running around and playing)? Isn't it their vacation too?

I'm not sure if I am the pp you are talking about, but my dd was 5 when we went to a B&B. I've never spent a lot of time at a B&B--we use them as a place to rest, sleep, and eat between exploring and sightseeing. She had lots of fun.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
I've never spent a lot of time at a B&B--we use them as a place to rest, sleep, and eat between exploring and sightseeing.

That's all I've ever done, too. I'm not a fan of just hanging around anywhere, and neither are my kids . . . when we go on vacation, we use wherever we're staying as a place to sleep, dress, and sometimes eat. Otherwise, we're out of there!!


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
That's all I've ever done, too. I'm not a fan of just hanging around anywhere, and neither are my kids . . . when we go on vacation, we use wherever we're staying as a place to sleep, dress, and sometimes eat. Otherwise, we're out of there!!

Well when some couples go on vacation, the like to use the place they are staying for other things too. Probably why we wouldn't ever go to a B&B, just to awkward doing that in someone else house.


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## 1littlebit (Jun 1, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Well when some couples go on vacation, the like to use the place they are staying for other things too. Probably why we wouldn't ever go to a B&B, just to awkward doing that in someone else house.

lol i am glad you said it.. i was thinking the same thing. i would be totally weirded out staying at someone else's house.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
That's all I've ever done, too. I'm not a fan of just hanging around anywhere, and neither are my kids . . . when we go on vacation, we use wherever we're staying as a place to sleep, dress, and sometimes eat. Otherwise, we're out of there!!

I wouldn't go to a B&B if that was what I was going to do. I'd stay in a hotel.

At a B&B, we usually get a room or suite with a double jacuzzi, and in winter, a fireplace, and spend quite a bit of time there. Sure, we go out for a hike or a drive, but the reason we use a B&B is that we want a beautiful romantic space to spend time as a couple, not just a pitstop.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
At a B&B, we usually get a room or suite with a double jacuzzi, and in winter, a fireplace, and spend quite a bit of time there. Sure, we go out for a hike or a drive, but the reason we use a B&B is that we want a beautiful romantic space to spend time as a couple, not just a pitstop.

It really depends on the town, and on the B&B.

Both times we stayed at a B&B (once alone on our honeymoon, and once with dd), we were in small towns. All of the hotels and motels were OUT of town (near the highway), necessitating a drive into the town each day. The B&B is IN the town, enabling guests to walk out the door and to all of the sights, shops, and restaurants. The walkability was the best feature for me!

Neither B&B had jacuzzis (or fireplaces in the rooms, as I recall). Not all B&Bs are like that.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
It really depends on the town, and on the B&B.

Both times we stayed at a B&B (once alone on our honeymoon, and once with dd), we were in small towns. All of the hotels and motels were OUT of town (near the highway), necessitating a drive into the town each day. The B&B is IN the town, enabling guests to walk out the door and to all of the sights, shops, and restaurants. The walkability was the best feature for me!

Neither B&B had jacuzzis (or fireplaces in the rooms, as I recall). Not all B&Bs are like that.

Nope, not all do, but the ones I use do. Not all rooms have those amenties, but there are usually one or two special rooms or suites that have. That's why I use them! And, when paying that kind of money for the ambience, I intend to spend a lot of time in it.

There's nothing quite like lying in a double jacuzzi with my DH, drinking champagne and looking out at the Vermont snow after a good hike and before a good dinner







:

Sadly, we don't do it as often as we did pre-kids of course. But we do make time for at least a couple of weekends a year dedicated just to us and our marriage. It recharges the romantic batteries and reminds us that our marriage is just as important as our kids.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cardinal* 
Every church we've attended have very much recommended and encouraged us to take the kids to the nursery. It's almost required... but isn't. I guess it'd be like wearing a tank top/mini skirt in the service... odd and not the norm, but you won't get ushered out.

We go to a Mennonite church and that hasn't been our experience. There is a nursery for people who want to use it, but I've never heard anyone suggest that people take their children there. The most I've heard is, "If he gets restless or bored in service, he's welcome to play in the nursery." And we nurse in church too, at least the moms that are comfortable doing it there.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cardinal* 
Every church we've attended have very much recommended and encouraged us to take the kids to the nursery. It's almost required... but isn't. I guess it'd be like wearing a tank top/mini skirt in the service... odd and not the norm, but you won't get ushered out.

At our church children are fully expected to participate, there isn't even a nursery if _you_ wanted it. The noon time service is even specifically geared towards children. It's the service wwhere the childrens choir sings once a month, and the folk group plays a couple of times a month. (the adult choir sings at the 10:30am, there is only organ music and a song leader/cantor at the 9am, and at the 7:30am they skip music altogether. I'm not sure what they do at the saturday evening or the 2:30pm spanish mass since I haven't attended any of those.) The sermon is geared to be easily understood by young people and even sometimes involvves the children coming up to participate in a demonstration. Crying babies can be walked back and forth in the vestibule and/or nursed.


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Probably why we wouldn't ever go to a B&B, just to awkward doing that in someone else house.

Awkward- or Exciting?







:


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

When we stayed with DD (3 at the time) in a b&b last summer, we also used it as a crash pad to eat, sleep & shower/change...but she still managed to be disruptive and we didn't even stay in the main house and I am a very self-conscious parent who tries to minimize the impact on others! just going in to the office to check in and out, DD was climbing up and down the stairs, wanting to touch things she was not allowed to, the one time we ate lunch she started getting cranky that she couldn't push the TV-tray around the room with food & drink on it, etc etc. I'll readily admit I do not have a perfectly behaved child despite my efforts to the contrary! But boy, am I glad I stayed in a b&b that doesn't kick people out the second they disrupt anyone! we would have been gone in the first five minutes!







and on a small island with no more outgoing ferries that day, in town for a wedding that my DH was the best man in, on a busy summer weekend with absolutely no other rooms available- I know, I checked- and in the pouring rain, we would have REALLY been screwed if the policy was "we allow kids, but the second they misbehave, you're all out of here".


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## Cinder (Feb 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asianyoushi* 
hugs sorry they were a bit rude in their replies... most people think bed and breakfast as a couples retreat... so i would have totally assumed kids werent allowed..

Yea, the two bed and breakfasts dh and I have been to children would of been very out of place there, it's just not a spot to take kids imo (and so, we haven't been to one since DD was born 6 years go).


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShwarmaQueen* 
Awkward- or Exciting?







:

Exciting for you, awkward for me...


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## CtMom (Jan 14, 2003)

My friend is raising her granddaughter. While she is a very nice 8-year old, my friend really does not see the effect her granddaughter has on others around her and inserts her into situations that are incredibly awkward.

They went to the symphony and grandma thought it was adorable that her granddaughter was conducting the orchestra from her seat, complete with audible cues to the various instruments (an evening performance where tickets were $100 each). I was told by others in the party that they witnessed disapproving looks and were disappointed they didn't get to enjoy the symphony without interruption.

They went on a tour in NYC and the granddaughter took over the tour from the guide. I was there for this and the other 20 paying members of the tour were visibly annoyed.

Per my friend, everyone tells her how adorable her granddaughter is and what a joy she is to everyone. When we dined with them at a nice restaurant, I could see how the people around us were not charmed by her granddaughter climbing on the booth and trying to make conversation with the couple behind us, or by the granddaughter's "helping" the waitress serve the food.

I love my friend, but I could not tell her any of this. Instead I have made specific plans to see her sometimes in child-free environments. And when they are in my home I am direct with the 8-year old and set out "house rules". No feet on our furniture (because she loves to bounce and this is easier than saying you can stand, but not jump); no pulling the dog's tail; no ordering people to get her snacks or drinks. I sound like a fuddy-duddy, but I don't think this little girl is going to have an easy life if someone doesn't provide some social cues for her.

What is interesting is that my friend was far more strict with her (now grown) sons. I will be interested to see how things are years from now.

And I love a child-free B&B as much as I love the beach house we rent for a week in the summer that we share with 2 granddaughters! Each is enjoyable for different reasons and I am glad that they both exist.


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

The last B & B we stayed at wasn't boring for ds at all (who was 3 at the time) it had miles of walking trails, a pool, farm animals, etc. Ds usually stays pretty entertained anywhere though as long as he has a few trains and he's a really quiet, calm kid. You just have to do your research before you go on what would be suitable for your family.


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CtMom* 
I sound like a fuddy-duddy, but I don't think this little girl is going to have an easy life if someone doesn't provide some social cues for her.

You would be amazed. Sometimes I think that people try way too hard to provide these 'social cues', which may or may not last, and inadvertedly make things harder on themselves. I've seen some of the most undisciplined, brattiest kids (myself included) somehow turn into well-adjusted, polite adults- who do not stand up on couches.


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## llamalluv (Aug 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
*What adult LIKES going to the bank?*


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llamalluv* 









I would, too, if we had any money, LOL.


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## 5796 (Oct 19, 2002)

> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CtMom*
> ...


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## Monda (Sep 26, 2002)

Tracy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Monda* 

I would be very thankful not to have that little girl in the room next door at a B&B

But... what if instead, you had the room next to the guy who got really drunk and spent the night singing heavy metal love songs... or the couple that had very LOUD sex all night long... or the woman who got up at 5 am to do her exercise routine, complete with pounding feet and loud breathing. There are plenty of things adults sometimes do that makes them obnoxious neighbors, too... whereas, on the other hand, if you'd had my little girl in the room next door you would probably have heard nothing at all, unless the walls were very, very thin... then you might have heard the pages of a book turning, or a low discussion about the furnishings.

I just think it's unfair to focus on age, rather than behavior.

Dar


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## Monda (Sep 26, 2002)

I would feel very comfortable going to the next room and asking an adult to knock off the rude behavior. If they didn't comply and I was annoyed enough, i could then ask the staff to deal with him/her. I think it would be a more "sensitive subject" if I asked the same of a child (or the child's parents), because parents (including myself) are very sensitive about any comment regarding their child's behavior.


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## Jenivere (Aug 4, 2003)

http://www.bbonline.com/kidfriendly.html

I don't mind that most B&B's are child free and I don't have a problem with there there being other adult only places. We went to a B&B for our honeymoon that was child free and I loved the quiet atmosphere. I don't often leave my kids now but It doesn't offend me that other would want to go on a romantic weekend or their Honeymoon and not have little kids all over the place.


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## Pernillep (Jan 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riverscout* 
Actually I think it's Denmark. But it's not because they don't welcome babies but more that places are too small to accommodate strollers. I think they believe the fresh air is good for them too.

Being from Denmark I will confirm that is true. My mom was mortified when I told her that here you do not leave your small child outside for naps. But he needs the fresh air









Also, it is considered safe to do so. No worries about someone stealing your baby.

That being said. babies are welcome pretty much anywhere. I have never not been welcome because of my child.


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## 2pinks (Dec 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jenivere* 
http://www.bbonline.com/kidfriendly.html

I don't mind that most B&B's are child free and I don't have a problem with there there being other adult only places. We went to a B&B for our honeymoon that was child free and I loved the quiet atmosphere. I don't often leave my kids now but It doesn't offend me that other would want to go on a romantic weekend or their Honeymoon and not have little kids all over the place.

Agreed.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pernillep* 
Being from Denmark I will confirm that is true. My mom was mortified when I told her that here you do not leave your small child outside for naps. But he needs the fresh air









Also, it is considered safe to do so. No worries about someone stealing your baby.

That being said. babies are welcome pretty much anywhere. I have never not been welcome because of my child.

One thing that struck me, about the story that was previously linked to about the Danish mother who got arrested in New York City for leaving her baby outside the restaurant, was that people had come in and let the couple know that their baby was crying, and the couple were just saying "she's fine" and refusing to bring her in.

It was at this point that some people decided to call the police.

Now, since one poster here mentioned that in Scandinavian countries, people will pop in and let parents know, "Hey, your child is crying" -- it sounds like it's not common-place in these countries to just leave a crying baby out there alone. I think there were some serious issues with this couple. Also, the dad was an American and must have known the practice wasn't done here.

I'd initially felt sorry for the Danish mother, but after reading the account of what really happened, I felt more sorry for the baby because she was crying and her mother refused to go to her.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
I do think it's a cultural thing. American society is definitely anti-child/anti-family. I'm not saying there are no family-friendly niches. But has anyone else noticed that there is no happy medium? Places to be either kid friendly or adult oriented. For example, even family restaurants like Applebees have had some anti-baby press (remember the NIP incident?).

I don't think that had anything to do with being anti-baby and everything to do with American' society being uptight about seeing boobs.

As for why parking your baby in a stroller out side a restaurant wouldn't work in the US, it's illegal. Well at least I sure it would be if leaving your child in the car while you run in and pay for your gas is.


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## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
But... what if instead, you had the room next to the guy who got really drunk and spent the night singing heavy metal love songs... or the couple that had very LOUD sex all night long... or the woman who got up at 5 am to do her exercise routine, complete with pounding feet and loud breathing. There are plenty of things adults sometimes do that makes them obnoxious neighbors, too... whereas, on the other hand, if you'd had my little girl in the room next door you would probably have heard nothing at all, unless the walls were very, very thin... then you might have heard the pages of a book turning, or a low discussion about the furnishings.

I just think it's unfair to focus on age, rather than behavior.

Dar

I think it's hard to argue this, though, because if people did base it on behavior, you run into an issue of what is or isn't acceptable. Is there a certain decible level? A certain length of time that's acceptable? Is it only if other patrons complain? Should there be any difference depending on whether we're talking about a child or adult?

If you're (general you) going to fully accept that I, the B&B owner, have the right to ask you to leave as soon as your baby starts crying, then, cool. But, I have a feeling if I did that, I'd soon be reading a post on MDC about how I discriminated against the baby because she didn't know that it was somehow disturbing to cry at the B&B.


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## sdm1024 (Sep 4, 2006)

I had this issue when I was a single mother. There is a neat resort on a beautiful lake in upstate NY that has a sliding scale for women. However, they don't allow children. It was upsetting to me, as there were entire cabins, so we wouldn't have disturbed anyone.

I agree that there are family friendly B&B's out there, you just have to look. Depending on where you go, there are condos, cabins etc for rent that may not be more expensive than the B&B


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

I'm quite surprised really - but I am from Europe and have never travelled across to the US, but not allowing children - I find a bit difficult, here on websites etc they will tell you if there are cots, highchairs etc available and actually folk are encouraged to come with their family, in our experience we have never come across somewhere that doesn't want kids to be around - I think it's a bit sad really that we can't have an even community, it worries me - no kids around, retirement villages where only over 50s are permitted - it's very unnatural really.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ewe+lamb* 
- I think it's a bit sad really that we can't have an even community, it worries me - no kids around, retirement villages where only over 50s are permitted - it's very unnatural really.

A few years' back I was talking with a friend about the unnaturalness of the church we attended at that time, where there was so much concern that having babies and children in the sanctuary might distract people from hearing God's Word, and could hinder the Holy Spirit.

I said God's Spirit was more powerful than that, and obviously whole families came to hear Jesus preach. And my friend said that we live in such a high-stress culture, that it's harder for people to listen, so sometimes that creates a need for parents to be able to get a break from their kids ...

And I thought it was so backward, and I still think so: If our culture is creating a situation where people need so many child-free zones, then I wish we'd attack the problem and not the children. That said, I realize it's a free country, and as long as significant numbers of people are willing to pay to stay in child-free places, they'll continue to do business.

But just as the child-free folks have a right to express their opinions, I have a right to express mine. And expressing my opinion isn't the same as saying that I don't think anyone should be "allowed" to do things I disagree with. It's just my opinion.


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