# Can we talk tongue tie and high palate?



## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I noticed on another past thread here that other women have had problems with *both* of these things on their babies.

I think my baby has both of these problems as well. She has an indent on her tongue when she sticks it out, and can't stick it very far out. I think the only reason she is getting anything is because I'm also nursing my toddler who was a "barracuda" as soon as she was born, so my nipples have already been through hell, so to say. And she has been nursing for 20 months, so no nipple pain now. My newborn is never happy with nursing, she constantly pulls off and apparently doesn't like my strong let down, or (obviously) when she can't get anything out of the breast.

also, she has a bubble palate, from what I've studied on the internet.

I'm wondering some things...

If you got the tongue tie clipped, did you notice a quick difference in the way the baby nursed and gained weight?

How old was your baby when you had it done?

How succesful are the "tongue exercises" I've heard about?

I have to go as she needs to be nursed again (and again)... some last things, she is gaining weight, but is just driving me nuts with the amount she needs to nurse, and is never satisfied with it.


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## Shirada (Jul 29, 2002)

I would definately recommend getting baby's frenulum clipped as a newborn. I never did, (because I was ignorant and didn't realise till much later that our nursing issues were to do with tongue-tie), and now I have to wait till my 4 year old is old enough to undergo the in-office procedure without freaking out. Here are some VERY helpful links that I have been reading recently that explain the facts. I even wrote to Brian Palmer and received a letter back.

http://www.brianpalmerdds.com/frenum.htm

http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/bfhelp-tonguetie.html

http://members.tripod.com/%7ECaroline_Bowen/tonguetie.html


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## velcromom (Sep 23, 2003)

We had ds's frenulum clipped when he was 10 months. Not one single health care professional noticed his tongue tie, I had to figure it out. I'd never heard of such a thing before. It helped immediately. I wish we'd done it sooner. We printed pages from the brianpalmerdds site and took them to the ped for backup in case they were reluctant because of ds's age and the fact that it was me having the trouble (plugged ducts all the time) not ds. We also got a recommendation from an LC. Our ped was supportive, the ENT not so much, but the info we brought convinced him that we really wanted it done. He didn't look through it, just the fact that we were prepared showed him how serious we were about it.


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## sarahwebb (Feb 12, 2002)

I had my son's frenulum clipped at five days and again at two months because it scarred over. He also has a high palate. The frenulectomy helped some, but he is still an inefficient nurser and I have to pump to keep my supply up and supplement what he is able to get from nursing.

I'd recommend having your child's frenulum evaluated and clipped as soon as possible. An LC is most qualified to make a recommendation, peds and ENTs don't always see a tongue tie that is mild as needing corrective action and may not understand that it can be affecting breastfeeding.

And yes, tongue exercises can help. I took my son to an occupational therapist and we did several exercises to help him extend his tongue. Now that he has two teeth, I am grateful!

Good luck,
Sarah


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## Nosy (Feb 23, 2004)

Does anyone know where I can find pictures or explanations of a high palate? My DS had his tongue clipped at 1 month and was able to wean off the nipple shield within days, but he still is not a terribly effective nurser, and I'm wondering how to find out more about the high palate.

Thanks.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

nosy~ the only pictures I could find of high palate were of dissected infants (totally yuck) But the pictures did show the difference between normal palate and high palate.


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## velcromom (Sep 23, 2003)

There are photos at brianpalmerdds.com of bubble palate, but yes they are dissected cadavers and are somewhat disturbing to see.


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## Mollie (Mar 12, 2002)

both of my kids had both, but we only had the frenulum clipped w/ #2. and I agonized about that. she cried for maybe 30 seconds, and after that it "seemed" like it wasn't all that painful for her! she began nursing sooooooooo much better immediately. I wish we had done it w/ #1, he has some speech issues, and I'm sure it has to do w/ the tongue tie. I have a very short frenulum as well..


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm wondering if there are other causes of these abnormalities other than genetics... my brother's little boy had tongue tie and high palate as well. My SIL and I were wondering though if they got those things because of ultrasounds done at about 10 weeks, or maybe because they are both quite fair (blonde hair blue eyes).... Did any of you have ultrasounds done at the early stages of your baby's pregnancy? My DD who is 19 months older than this baby didn't have *any* problems nursing... very long tongue, low palate, and never an ultrasound, but she is also stronger in constitution (brown hair and eyes).

What do you think?


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## Kari_mom (Jun 1, 2003)

For Nosy, a quick way to maybe see if your ds has a high palate. My nephew was diagnosed with a high palate by a LC, and when I stuck my finger in his mouth right behind the front top gums, it went in almost to the first joint of my finger. I just tried it again with my 4 month old, and it only went in half as far. Does that make sense? There is definitely a difference.

I have high palate myself, and while it didn't interfere with bf because I was ff, it was made worse by my incessant thumbsucking and required surgery as an adult as part of orthodontics. Just in case you didn't have enough to worry about!

Mamajaza, can you explain your thoughts that children with brown hair and eyes are stronger in constitution than blue eyed, blond children?


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## Nosy (Feb 23, 2004)

Thanks, Kari_mom for the tip. I wasn't aware that thumbsucking worsened it. My DS is a thumbsucker. I tried to look at the brianpalmer photos, and I got the first one half-way downloaded and I couldn't look anymore. I'd never make it in medical school. My finger does go in pretty far...wonder if my ped would recognize a high palate if she saw one. 6 month well baby check is tomorrow.


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kari_mom*
Mamajaza, can you explain your thoughts that children with brown hair and eyes are stronger in constitution than blue eyed, blond children?

Well, I was thinking along the lines of blonde hair blue eyed babys being more sensitive to foods (as I am) and all sorts of other things.... But you still have not answered my question.... Did your child with tongue tie and high palate receive any ultrasounds while in utero? I'm trying to find some similarities between babies that have these breastfeeding issues.personally, I regret having an ultrasound.


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## Kari_mom (Jun 1, 2003)

Well, only one of my 4 blonde hair, blue eyed babies had food sensitivities, a mild dairy allergy outgrown by age 2. They are all actually very robust healthwise. They were all born with strong suck reflexes and have nursed like champs from the get-go, and I am still nursing two of them.

None of my kids were tongue-tied or had a high palate. One did have an ultrasound at 12 weeks.

My sister did have early ultrasounds with her two kids; one had the tongue-tie that I mentioned and the other did not.

I have a high palate, and since I am 41, I obviously did not have an ultrasound as a fetus.

I think you are really only going to be able to answer that question by comparing tongue-tied rates pre and post widespread ultrasound use. Or maybe Smilemomma (isn't that the dentist mama?) could help you figure out if there is a possible relationship.


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## Kari_mom (Jun 1, 2003)

Nosy, I would think that the ped would recognise a high palate, but maybe would not understand the impact that can have on nursing.

I also wanted to add that a high palate will cause the nipple to deform while nursing. When you release the nipple from your son's mouth, does the nipple turn up? Do you have pain when you nurse?

I am no expert on this, of course, just interested from personal experience and watching my sister go through 4 months of problems before her son's high palate was correctly diagnosed.

Good luck at the well check tomorrow.


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