# "12 hours at 12 weeks" -- WTF??



## mojobot2000 (Jun 29, 2008)

Okay, so I went to a mommy's group today. By and large, these women are on the opposite side of the spectrum from AP, and I've never connected with them much on parenting stuff, but I needed an excuse to get out of the house. Anyway, I thought I'd heard it all...UNTIL!

The woman sitting next to me started talking about something she was doing with her daughter that she read about in a book, called "12 hours at 12 weeks" or something. It is -- you guessed it -- a technique for training your 12-week-old to sleep 12 hour stretches.

How is it done? Wait for it...

You feed the baby every 4 hours during the day so that "she gets used to being hungry, and it doesn't wake her up at night."

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The thing is, I have compassion and understanding for women who get seduced by this stuff. To be honest, my first response to this wasn't horror...it was: "12 HOURS!?! SIGN ME UP!" Then after I processed it for about 30 seconds: Horror. Then I did the math: That's FOUR FEEDINGS in a 24-hour period for a 12-week-old infant!!!!!!!!!! I eat more frequently than that!!!!!! Triple horror.

I was at a loss for words, and the best I could do was: "I'd be worried about my milk supply." To which the woman answered, "I don't think your milk supply has anything to do with how often you feed the baby."

O rly?

Once I got home, a question occurred to me that I really wish I'd asked: What in god's name are you supposed to do when your baby starts crying because she's hungry before the 4 hours is up? The only answer I can possibly imagine is: Let her cry, because there will be no stopping a hungry baby from crying without feeding her. So it's like CIO, all day long, for sleep AND eating.

This woman's baby is wee tiny tiny, I'd guess somewhere around the 20th percentile for her age, and every time I've seen her she's been asleep the whole time, which is what I would do, too, if I were starving to death.

Seriously, shouldn't this be illegal?

Has anyone else heard of this?


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## feest (May 25, 2007)

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Twe.../9780525949596

there's the book...
all i can think is OMG!
how on earth could this have ever been consitered a good idea.

the only was i can really figure this working is the baby becomes lethargic and sleeps deeply from not eating enough and crying all day.

This is just disgusting.

i could really see this setting a child up for over eating and a wonky metabolism as they grow.

If this was done with a breastfed child u'd sooo end up with supply issues.


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## D'sMama (May 4, 2008)

That's completely horrifying and disgusting. And really sad. It makes me so sad to hear about women who are so far removed from their instincts that they can't see what they're doing to their babies. I hope you say something to that woman - this is a situation where that baby is actually in harm's way, and that woman really needs to be told/shown that what she's doing is not healthy or acceptable in any way. Can you email her some literature about how often babies of that age actually need to feed?

I really hate any and every baby care book that claims to have some kind of solution for all babies. There's no such thing! Every baby is different and every mom needs to just tune out the noise around them and focus on getting to know THEIR baby and what s/he needs, and then respond to it. It's so simple!


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## mojobot2000 (Jun 29, 2008)

Yeah, you know, as an inexperienced mom, I've gotten tossed about in the wind a bit by all the varying parenting books out there: Do this! No, do that! No, do the complete opposite thing! It's enough to make your head spin. 3 months into the adventure, I'd say that one thing I've learned is to IMMEDIATELY throw away anything that makes a claim like, "AND IT WORKS! EVERY TIME, FOR EVERY BABY!"

Also anything that is guaranteed to make my baby do nothing but cry and fall asleep exhausted from crying. Criminy.


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## Chloe'sMama (Oct 14, 2008)

I have an acquaintance that used this technique. Her dd has slept through the night, but her milk supply plummeted and she ended up using formula.


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## mojobot2000 (Jun 29, 2008)

Oh yeah, I should also mention that this woman's daughter is ALREADY sleeping a 7-8 hour stretch, but it's the "wrong" 7-8 hours for mom's schedule (7:00 PM to 2:00 or 3:00 AM -- coincidentally the exact 7-8 hour stretch my daughter sleeps most nights, and for which I thank my lucky stars).


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## Chloe'sMama (Oct 14, 2008)

I would be happy for a 4 or 5 hour stretch at 10 months, but alas, it is not so.... I just figure my dd will nurse when she needs to.

It seems so unnatural to go that long without eating, and not using nursing as a way to help calm the lo?????


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## SinginMamaTo2 (Feb 26, 2008)

OMG - I just read the book review and I want to puke! This woman is called a "guru"!!!!! I think it's disgusting as well, and I want to write a letter - or something! It is so easy for new mamas to get caught up in all this crap, but this seems harmful and abusive to me







My kiddos are 5 and 9 and I still don't get a good nights sleep, but that doesn't mean I'm going to starve them and make them cry all day to try and "train" them to sleep!!!


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Oh man that's awful. I wouldn't want my 12 MONTH old baby going 12 hours without nursing!!!!!!


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## Julia24 (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rachel616* 
I really hate any and every baby care book that claims to have some kind of solution for all babies. There's no such thing! Every baby is different and every mom needs to just tune out the noise around them and focus on getting to know THEIR baby and what s/he needs, and then respond to it. It's so simple!


ITA! I'm all about sleep for babies, but that seems counterintuitive to me - a baby needs x amount of food for their own little selves to grow...if you feed them LESS during the day - they will be HUNGRIER at night, yk? I was always of the mind set, if they don't get the OZ they need during the day - they'll get them at night...so if you want a sleeping baby at night, you better make sure you are ON it during the day!!!! And some babies just CAN'T get enough during the day - so there will BE no 12 hour stretches. And some can - I've been lucky enough to have 2 (so far







watch this third one will have me up all night!!!) that SLEEP. (and not because I fed them every FOUR hours during the day!!!!!!)


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## hrsmom (Jul 4, 2008)

"gets used to being hungry?" Oh, that is awful!!! I agree, it's sad that people read stuff like that and believe it. When my baby was 12 weeks old, I sure didn't know it was normal for babies not to sleep through the night! And she did do the 3-month good sleeping (6-ish hours a few times) and I thought we'd be good to go from there!!

That's sad, too, about "the wrong 7-8 hour stretch" I would take a stretch of 4-5 hours at any time!!

My babe is in the 20th percentile, but I feed her and always have when she is hungry!


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## pinky (Nov 21, 2001)

LOL, I can't imagine my 4 year old sleeping for a 12 hour stretch!!!

(of course, I'm one of those crazy, permissive, co-sleeping hippie moms....)


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## serenekitten (Nov 20, 2008)

was the first emoticon that came to mind, though there are many others that are appropriate. Coherent thoughts are escaping me. Sheesh.


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## Thing1Thing2 (Apr 30, 2008)

(nak)

when I first heard of this and read the reviews online at barnes n noble, I have to admit I was saying to myself "maybe it's good to follow some of the advice if it makes for good sleeping habits in the future".

It seems to me that most of us APers have sleep problems that are hard to resolve.

Though I could never starve my baby by feeding him only every 4 hours, and I will never let my baby CIO, I was thinking maybe there are some techniques we could glean from the book?

Then I heard about the baby who stays in his crib for twelve hours whether awake or not. Who doesn't cry when he's hungry because he is used to being hungry. You can pretty much teach someone to sit back and take anything as long as they are used to it. Being in a crib for 12 hours is not normal. Babies are meant to be held and cuddled. Im not sure I really want my baby to experience being "pent up" and just sitting back and taking it...

I like my little sleep fighter - he has a personality, he's not being "forced" into the mold. I like it when he complains because he is uncomfortable. Or when he squeals because he is excited. I don't want the typical "take whatever comes" baby. My ds is human, he has feelings and needs and he should be taught to express those needs.

So they can keep their books and their methods of forcing babies into adult schedules and timetables. And I will keep my very happy, original, full of personality, sleep fighting baby. Well hopefully the sleep fighting goes away....


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

darn I was thinking this was going to be another thread about the 4 month sleep regression. Y'know, "my LO slept for 12 hours straight at 12 weeks, but now is waking every hour, what's wrong?"

No help on how to talk to people like that since my first reaction was "are you stupid?? that sounds abusive.." which is not the best way to make friends and influence people. Maybe "that sounds dangerous, have you talked to your child's doctor about that?"


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

I'm SOOO glad people on this mothering board agree with me on this - b/c on my babycenter DDC there are TONS of people like - why won't my baby sleep - and the response is that they NEED to CIO so that they learn how to sleep. Oh yeah, and people complaining about how they're babies wake up for a 6am feeding and so they have to get up.

I guess any sleep I get doesn't count b/c my parents didn't let me CIO when I was a baby and I never learned how to sleep at night







:

I will admit though that sometimes I get a little jealous that they get uninterupted sleep at night







: Especially after last night when my baby didn't sleep at all and only wanted to nurse. I think he is reverse cycling - which would be ok except that I'm HOME ALL DAY!!!!


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## MLA (May 22, 2008)

This makes me so sad. That poor little baby.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

ha, you're lucky to get 12 hours at 12 months!

but don't worry, by 12 years a lot of them will be doing 12 hours easy and pushing for more!


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *feest* 
i could really see this setting a child up for over eating and a wonky metabolism as they grow.

yeah, I was thinking that, too. Same idea as those with anorexia or bulemia metabolism will make up for the fact that the body is starving by slowing down, causing weight issues later in life.


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## almadianna (Jul 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BonnieNova* 

It seems to me that most of us APers have sleep problems that are hard to resolve.


I dont believe that this is really true only for APers, I think this is true for all parents. It might seem more pronounced in APers for these reasons though...

I believe that a) a great deal of parent wont admit in public the issues that they have because they think that it makes them bad parents to have a kid that is older than 4 weeks old and doesnt STTN and b) harsh sleep training methods are being used which may _seem_ to make a child sleep well because the poor child gets disheartened after a while... but this typically does not last.


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## Gentle~Mommy :) (Apr 21, 2009)

I'm still waiting for 12 hours!


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## Thing1Thing2 (Apr 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *almadianna* 
I dont believe that this is really true only for APers, I think this is true for all parents. It might seem more pronounced in APers for these reasons though...

I believe that a) a great deal of parent wont admit in public the issues that they have because they think that it makes them bad parents to have a kid that is older than 4 weeks old and doesnt STTN and b) harsh sleep training methods are being used which may _seem_ to make a child sleep well because the poor child gets disheartened after a while... but this typically does not last.


Yes, I do know quite a bit of non-apers who tell me things such as "my lo was sttn and now he's up at 3 every morning" So I guess the fact that the CIO works for a while and then they regress would make it seem as if the child is sttn.

Also, another reason that may make it seem like the child is sttn could be that because we co-sleep, we know every little move our babies make. We wake when they wake... or sometimes even snort... So it seems as if our babies are waking more often, when in reality a baby in a crib is waking just as many times, but it is not being noticed by the parents..


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## GranolaIsCool (Apr 23, 2009)

That's one of the most heartbreaking things I think I've read in a really long time.


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## mckittre (Jan 15, 2009)

I think the book should first recommend that the parents "get used to being hungry" and see how much they like it! Even in an adult, there's a profound difference between choosing to fast or diet, and being hungry because _you just can't get food, no matter how much you might want it_. I've been hungry a little like that (run short of food backpacking), and it wasn't much fun. Imagine what it would be like if you were an infant! And it was every day!


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## AVeryGoodYear (Mar 31, 2009)

What a hideous concept. I look at parenting this way: if something is targetted at improving _my_ quality of life, it's probably not worth my time; if something is targetted at improving my _baby's_ quality of life, it's worth taking a look at. Once I became a mother, "all me all the time" got thrown out of the window. Anything I do is done for my daughter, to keep her happy, healthy, and secure. I don't care if I wake up every three hours during the night, because feeding her trumps my desire to sleep a little longer. Period.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 
I think the book should first recommend that the parents "get used to being hungry" and see how much they like it! Even in an adult, there's a profound difference between choosing to fast or diet, and being hungry because _you just can't get food, no matter how much you might want it_. I've been hungry a little like that (run short of food backpacking), and it wasn't much fun. Imagine what it would be like if you were an infant! And it was every day!









:
Very true!


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

This is truly horrible. Do you happen to know what pediatrician she uses? I was thinking if you knew that, you could talk to the office and make them aware of this book. You could probably do this with pediatricians, actually. Is there any kind of formal statement against this book by another group?

I just read a review that said: _The people who think this is a strange concept... most adults don't eat druing the night nor do most children so not eating for 12 hours isn't too big a deal. I have 4 children and they all have gone 12 hours by the time they were 12 weeks old and they are not food deprived by any means. They were never low percentage for weight._

I cannot believe someone would compare a 12 week old baby with an adult or older child. And being in the low percentile is not the only danger. Their children may end up on the opposite end of the spectrum, as their bodies adapt to a lower calorie environment and become adept at conserving energy and storing what they get.


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## hipmummy (May 25, 2007)

If anyone were tell their dr. their baby only fed 4 times a day at 12weeks..esp EBzm the dr. would have to wonder. Even formula fed babies eat more frequently than that. That book is worse than Babywise. It make Ezzo look like a Saint!


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## dex_millie (Oct 19, 2006)

WTH..........Wow....







: I can't even find words to explain my thoughts right now


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## icy02 (Oct 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Julia24* 
ITA! I'm all about sleep for babies, but that seems counterintuitive to me - a baby needs x amount of food for their own little selves to grow...if you feed them LESS during the day - they will be HUNGRIER at night, yk? I was always of the mind set, if they don't get the OZ they need during the day - they'll get them at night...so if you want a sleeping baby at night, you better make sure you are ON it during the day!!!! And some babies just CAN'T get enough during the day - so there will BE no 12 hour stretches. And some can - I've been lucky enough to have 2 (so far







watch this third one will have me up all night!!!) that SLEEP. (and not because I fed them every FOUR hours during the day!!!!!!)

That is my DS. He eats all his calories during the day and will easily sleep 7-8 hrs at night. He did this on his own though. No force on my part. Granted it is great to be able to sleep at night, but not at the expense of your LO!


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## Muminmamman (Jul 28, 2007)

*


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## Dahlea (May 15, 2008)

wow, that is just sad. that's more about the parents than the baby!


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

That makes me ill. Personally, I would be getting names & calling social services on anyone who thinks that kind of thing is acceptable. It's cruel & abusive to withhold food from anyone, much less a tiny baby. Why do these abuse manuals keep getting published & why aren't their authors being charged with child endangerment, at the very least?


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I would have had to say something.







Another example of people not seeing babies as human. You wouldnt do this to a invalid adult so how is it ok to do it to a baby.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

: One of the Amazon.com reviews says that it isn't "starving your baby" because "you aren't supposed to start until they're 10lbs and 8 weeks old"







:

And apparently one of the authors is a "judicial law clerk", there's NO excuse for all the unsupported claims.


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## wetcement101 (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BonnieNova* 
(nak)

when I first heard of this and read the reviews online at barnes n noble, I have to admit I was saying to myself "maybe it's good to follow some of the advice if it makes for good sleeping habits in the future".

It seems to me that most of us APers have sleep problems that are hard to resolve.

Though I could never starve my baby by feeding him only every 4 hours, and I will never let my baby CIO, I was thinking maybe there are some techniques we could glean from the book?

Then I heard about the baby who stays in his crib for twelve hours whether awake or not. Who doesn't cry when he's hungry because he is used to being hungry. You can pretty much teach someone to sit back and take anything as long as they are used to it. Being in a crib for 12 hours is not normal. Babies are meant to be held and cuddled. Im not sure I really want my baby to experience being "pent up" and just sitting back and taking it...

I like my little sleep fighter - he has a personality, he's not being "forced" into the mold. I like it when he complains because he is uncomfortable. Or when he squeals because he is excited. I don't want the typical "take whatever comes" baby. My ds is human, he has feelings and needs and he should be taught to express those needs.

So they can keep their books and their methods of forcing babies into adult schedules and timetables. And I will keep my very happy, original, full of personality, sleep fighting baby. Well hopefully the sleep fighting goes away....

That's just beautiful!

Did anyone notice (in the book review) that it's a "Limited-Crying Solution?" So much nicer than CIO! (ha)


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## SinginMamaTo2 (Feb 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Devaskyla* 
That makes me ill. Personally, I would be getting names & calling social services on anyone who thinks that kind of thing is acceptable. It's cruel & abusive to withhold food from anyone, much less a tiny baby. Why do these abuse manuals keep getting published & why aren't their authors being charged with child endangerment, at the very least?









:Absolutely!!! These so-called experst need to be held responsible for the dangerous nonsense they put out there!!! My first thought was, 'does a baby actually have to die before someone takes action???"


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## Funny Face (Dec 7, 2006)

That is heartbreaking.

Did Ezzo pick up a new pen name?







:


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## teale (Feb 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *almadianna* 
I dont believe that this is really true only for APers, I think this is true for all parents. It might seem more pronounced in APers for these reasons though...

I believe that a) a great deal of parent wont admit in public the issues that they have because they think that it makes them bad parents to have a kid that is older than 4 weeks old and doesnt STTN and b) harsh sleep training methods are being used which may _seem_ to make a child sleep well because the poor child gets disheartened after a while... but this typically does not last.

I personally think we have less sleep issues to worry about. I have a girlfriend who sleep trained using the Ferber method, and every single time something happens to disrupt her child's schedule, they are smack dab back at square one.

I know I spent most of the first year up late, and I know I still get up twice a night or more to feed DS, but really? It's normal to me now. I'm used to it, and I actually consider a night where he gets up 2-3 times a great night.

APer's and Non STing Moms have lower expectations of sleep habits. These people who sleep train expect sleep habits that even some adults don't have, thus the reason I think they end up putting more work and more effort into their sleep issues. Quite frankly, the spend more time stressing about sleep then I do. I just accept my son as he is, and his sleep patterns are what they are.

ETA: This book makes me barf in my mouth too. The positive reviews on the website are scary as well. Let's talk about selfish parenting!


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teale* 

Quite frankly, the spend more time stressing about sleep then I do. I just accept my son as he is, and his sleep patterns are what they are.

ETA: This book makes me barf in my mouth too. The positive reviews on the website are scary as well. Let's talk about selfish parenting!









:

My son is perfect just the way he is! waking up at 3am for an hour of playing included! (even though sometimes I wish he would just go back to sleep







)

I knew that when he was born he wouldn't STTN for a while - I figure it doesn't matter if I want to deal with it or not I have to. I do have to hand it to single mothers though - I LOVE my BF for doing each and every middle of the night diaper change since Lincoln was born! I do have to feed him a few times a night, but thats why we co-sleep - quite literally I decided when I was pregnant that I didn't want to have to fully wake up to feed Lincoln, and that I also didn't want him to have to wake up fully to eat - this helps both of us get back to sleep better!


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## Amberoxy (Dec 20, 2007)

This post made me so sad!!! Who does this to a baby? On purpose? How can you look at those sweet little faces and think - "nope, I'm not feeding you. I don't care if you are hungry, I want to sleep." Makes me want to cry









I haven't read the book, just what I've read here - but, I had to do something so I wrote a review on B&N's website:

"A 12 week baby needs to be fed on demand - not on a schedule! Certainly not a 4 hour schedule! That is akin to child abuse!!! Please - don't buy this book!!! Teach your child to enjoy sleeping by providing a safe conforting environment for your child to sleep in. Every time your child wakes up, take that as an opportunity to show your child how loved and cherished your child is. This will give your child the gift of healty eating and sleep habits that will last a lifetime. Please - for your baby's sake - DO NOT BUY THIS BOOK!!!!"


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## wetcement101 (Dec 2, 2007)

:


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## DavinaT (Jun 28, 2005)

To feed the baby every 4 hours during the day so that "she gets used to being hungry, and it doesn't wake her up at night."???
If this was done to a prisoner it would constitute torture. If you starve an animal you are charged, prosecuted and forbiudden to ever keep an animal again.
Sounds like the perfect way to destory a childs trust, teach them to ignore one of the most basic needs for survival, stunt their emotional and physical growth and their metabolism in one go. If someone wanted a baby who has dumbed down his own needs and expressions from the get go - if a well-trained robot or a somneone who grows into an adult explosive with pent up rage is something they really really think is normal!! WFT????????????????
How would that women feel if someone starved her for 36 hours to teach her to get used to be being hungry and did that for years?? Makes me feel ill just thinking about this being done to a baby.
I wonder how many peope who were schedule fed as babies and left to cry with hunger, have serious food issues today - anorexia, bulimia, hypoglycemia, food control, over control, BDD, food anxiety, food addiction, eating voraciously to fill emotional voids. It's all there and I see it around me every single day.
Now I want to recall a conversation I over heard with a colleague who had just returned from paternity leave (3 weeks) and was asked if 'the baby was good for them' - to which he replied: for us, of course he is perfect, just what we wanted . But if you mean is he convenient - of course not. Had we wanted conveneince, we would have got a cat'.
I thought it an excellent reply.
About 3 months later I heard the same person ask if the baby slept through the night - to which he replied, amazed "Oh No - that would be so strange' Than asked the person, puzzled - 'do you sleep through the night'. And of course most of us wake up at some point.
And I know BFD'ing mothers of twins who wake up hungry and eat during the night. Just like their babies do!
Saying a baby needs to be 'trained' to sleep by leaving them to express their fears and terrors is like saying that they need to be trained to eat by force feeding them til they'e sick!!!


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## Mama.Pajama (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mojobot2000* 
You feed the baby every 4 hours during the day so that "she gets used to being hungry, and it doesn't wake her up at night."

Man, I used to be friends with a girl who did the exact same kind of thing. She had an almost 2 year old and a newborn, and she also had a _system_.
According to her, you're only supposed to respond to babies' cries for the first 6 weeks, "so they know the world is a safe place." But after the 6 weeks is up, that's when you start Junior on a rice cereal/formula bottle at night and let him cry it out, because he'll "never learn to fall asleep by himself" if you don't do this.







Also, you'd better not make the mistake of holding Junior all of the time either, like she did with her first DS, which totally spoiled him into thinking that she was going to hold him like that all the time, god forbid. When she got pregnant with #2, she just had to put him down period and let him get used to it. And apparently you start "swatting" your baby as soon as he does something you think is inappropriate behavior, which in her older DS's case would be when he is just over a year old. It goes without saying that both of her sons were cut off the breast at 5 months.

My contention is that she cherry-picked her "wisdom" from various friends and family members, and of course those Similac baby development brochures (that suggest exactly and what kind your baby should eat, sleep, etc.).


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## Lovinmum (Aug 22, 2008)

SO sad for those babies.







My 12wo was sleeping 12 hours at night and know how?? I fed him when ever he wanted (which was sometimes ALL day) and he did it himself! Some babies are ready that young anyway, no need to starve them!! Even if they aren't you can't starve your baby!!


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## nikkiethridge (May 6, 2008)

What a cruel and hateful thing to do to a baby.
I really wish you would have asked that lady what she does when he DD cries, I think she really needs to put her parenting choices into perspective. Basically saying 'So you let her starve and cry?' might actually make her STOP AND THINK. Are you going back to that group?


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## dearmama22 (Oct 20, 2008)

wow, how sad.


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## hippiemommaof4 (Mar 31, 2008)

People in this world really shock and disgust me.


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## Gena 22 (Jul 3, 2008)

As a new twin mother I was told I'd have to schedule my babes, that there was no other way. Which I took with a grain of salt. A stranger on the street recommended "12 by 12" so I checked it out. Read it through a couple times, tying to figure out how it could possibly work for us. Then I got it: it's totally anti-BF'ing. The author suggests that BF'ing mothers pump and feed from bottles so she'll know the babe is getting enough milk. 6 oz every 4 hours.

So, I'm supposed to sit down with my pump every 2 hours day and night, so that I have enough EBM to feed my twins their appointed "meals." Know how long that would last? Know how hard exclusive pumping is, and how messed up it is to try when there isn't a good reason to be separated from your baby?

Although I should have known better, I passed the book along to another new mom with the warning about BF'ing. She said she'd probably throw it out. I agreed.

It's hard to know what's right and what's totally off base as a new mom. But this is way out there.


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