# I want to call CPS on my ILs



## leosmommy (May 11, 2008)

Here's a list of why I would call CPS on my ILs...

-they introduced food at 3 months to both kids, one is 3 1/2, one 9 months
-3 1/2 y/o has severe asthma and allergies, and they forget his meds more often than he actually gets them (he goes to the ER at least once a month for a severe asthma/allergy attack)
-they take him many places that make his allergies/asthma act up, knowing in advance this will happen, but do it anyway (example: to people's homes with pets/outdoor mold issues)
-the 9 month old was fed the following at Xmas dinner: lemon meringue pie, mashed potatoes made with cream and butter with gravy on them, hawaiian punch from a sippy cup, chocolate chip cookies, cake, and not a single bottle of formula for the 8 hours that we were there
-the 3 1/2 year old is often left alone in the bath tub with the bathroom door shut while they go downstairs/outside for a few minutes/to another room
-he has gotten on the lawn mower, started it up, and driven it across the yard by himself (all of this unsupervised until they saw him zipping across the back yard as they were in the front)
-he recently jumped off a 2nd story balcony (they were having a party downstairs and didn't notice he had left the room)
-he is often hit, slapped, screamed at, pulled around by his hair
-he is always ridiculed when he has an "accident"
-they rarely use a car seat for either child in their minivan
-sometimes they will come over to visit at 4 pm, and the 3 1/2 year old will still not have been fed ALL DAY, or will have only had bottles (up to 5 in one day) of cow's milk
-the 9 month old has fallen down the stairs at least 3 times
-3 1/2 year old is left to play outside, by himself, no supervision or even an eye on him from a window. they live on a busy street and do not have a fence.
-regular meals are almost always eaten (for all of the family) at fast food restaurants (McDonald's, pizza shops), a typical meal is a burger, french fries, and a milkshake (this is for both children, they each get their own kids meal)
-the children watch anything and everything on t.v., the 3 1/2 year old swears in almost every sentence
-he still uses a pacifier, and his chin is always red, irritated, and sometimes raw from the constant drool
-he doesn't like to have his hair washed in the bath tub, and so it never gets done

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting. What would you do? We don't have a relationship with them (wonder why?) and I'm pretty sure if I report them I can remain anonymous (and if I couldn't I would do it anyway).

We've tried talking to them, they don't think they do anything wrong. We have tried talking to others in the family, and nobody seems to care. They know that the children are in obvious danger, but no one wants to be the "bad guy" and do anything about it.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leosmommy* 
Here's a list of why I would call CPS on my ILs...

-they introduced food at 3 months to both kids, one is 3 1/2, one 9 months
*-3 1/2 y/o has severe asthma and allergies, and they forget his meds more often than he actually gets them (he goes to the ER at least once a month for a severe asthma/allergy attack)
-they take him many places that make his allergies/asthma act up, knowing in advance this will happen, but do it anyway (example: to people's homes with pets/outdoor mold issues)*
-the 9 month old was fed the following at Xmas dinner: lemon meringue pie, mashed potatoes made with cream and butter with gravy on them, hawaiian punch from a sippy cup, chocolate chip cookies, cake, and not a single bottle of formula for the 8 hours that we were there
*-the 3 1/2 year old is often left alone in the bath tub with the bathroom door shut while they go downstairs/outside for a few minutes/to another room
-he has gotten on the lawn mower, started it up, and driven it across the yard by himself (all of this unsupervised until they saw him zipping across the back yard as they were in the front)
-he recently jumped off a 2nd story balcony (they were having a party downstairs and didn't notice he had left the room)
-he is often hit, slapped, screamed at, pulled around by his hair*
-he is always ridiculed when he has an "accident"
*-they rarely use a car seat for either child in their minivan
-sometimes they will come over to visit at 4 pm, and the 3 1/2 year old will still not have been fed ALL DAY, or will have only had bottles (up to 5 in one day) of cow's milk
-the 9 month old has fallen down the stairs at least 3 times
-3 1/2 year old is left to play outside, by himself, no supervision or even an eye on him from a window. they live on a busy street and do not have a fence.*
-regular meals are almost always eaten (for all of the family) at fast food restaurants (McDonald's, pizza shops), a typical meal is a burger, french fries, and a milkshake (this is for both children, they each get their own kids meal)
-the children watch anything and everything on t.v., the 3 1/2 year old swears in almost every sentence
-he still uses a pacifier, and *his chin is always red, irritated, and sometimes raw from the constant drool*
-he doesn't like to have his hair washed in the bath tub, and so it never gets done

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting. What would you do? We don't have a relationship with them (wonder why?) and I'm pretty sure if I report them I can remain anonymous (and if I couldn't I would do it anyway).

We've tried talking to them, they don't think they do anything wrong. We have tried talking to others in the family, and nobody seems to care. They know that the children are in obvious danger, but no one wants to be the "bad guy" and do anything about it.

I bolded the things that, from my understanding, would be within the jurisdiction of CPS's concern. The un-bolded things might be unpleasant parenting, but would probably not be considered neglect or abuse. (From my lay-person's understanding; I used to be a mandated reporter and so did DH when we were teaching school, so that's the level of knowledge I have.) Actually with the car seat thing, you might also get somewhere with the police as well; but that very much depends on their state and city.


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## mama2toomany (Oct 17, 2005)

To me the only things warrented for a CPS call in that loong list is the bath tub thing and the riding lawn mower thing. and the physical abuse, the rest just makes it seems like your on a mission to get the kids out of there, cps will see that too.

CPS will not go look into things because someone thinks they don't feed baby right.

and remember that just because they say it is anonymous doesn't mean it is. I onced called on someone for some very bad abuse going on, and it was suppose to be anonymous well it wasn't.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Unfortunately, a lot of the food issues are non-issues. I don't think it's against the law to feed your kid crap.

So, if you do call CPS, stick to the issues of neglect (leaving him alone in the tub, to jump off the balcony, not feeding him, not washing his hair (though I have to say, my dd's hair gets washed about every 2 weeks - it's dry, her skin is dry and we're all happier with a brush every day and a wash infrequently), and abuse (dragging him by his hair).

The other question is: What do you want to happen? Do you want someone to force them to take parenting classes? The kids removed? A personality transplant? (Ok, so the latter is a bit extreme!)

If they really are dragging the poor kids by the hair, not using carseats and generally neglecting the kids, yes, I'd call. But I'm probably in a minority here.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Just to clarify, I myself WOULD call CPS in the situation you describe. But I would stick to the bolded parts (which are basically the non-food-related parts) in my report.


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## alicia622 (May 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
Just to clarify, I myself WOULD call CPS in the situation you describe. But I would stick to the bolded parts (which are basically the non-food-related parts) in my report.









:


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## suprgrl (Sep 27, 2005)

I think mashed potatoes with cream and gravy is an excellent food for a 9 month old.

There are some things in your list that bring up real concern, but some are just lifestyle choices that others may see as fine.


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## Lisa85 (May 22, 2006)

Keep all the fluff out. Feeding a 3 month old solids hardly warrants a CPS call. Exposing kids to allergens would be extremely hard to prove, and I'm not sure they could even do anything about it.

You can remain anonymous, but you will not get updates. If you choose to reveal your identity, then they will/can give you updates. If your willing to take the kids in for at least a short period of time, you'd have to reveal your identity, or call back later after a case has been opened.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I would butt out. Very little on your list is even outside the "norm" in most places.

-Angela


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

oops. wrong click.


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## Labyrinth (Apr 14, 2008)

Stick with the bolded parts, and make the report clear and concise. The repeated incidents of neglect as well as the physical abuse need emphasized. Stick with things you have seen and things the parents have told you- don't go on about things other people have told you or things that are assumed.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

A great deal of it isn't worth of CPS involvement. Stick with the real issues.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Moved to Parenting.

This is an advance reminder to keep this thread within the MDC User Agreement. Any UAV's may result in the removal of this thread.


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## MCR (Nov 20, 2001)

Constant exposure to allergens and not using his meds (they could check how often they've been refilled i.e daily meds not refilled for 4 months and still half in the bottle ) Is medical neglect. The food issues CPS won't care about. But jumping of the balcony, riding the mower, bathing alone, dirty, abuse. They may do a welfare check.


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

I would really think long and hard about weather their lifestyle choices really warrant CPS. Would those children benefit from being taken away from their parents and put into a foster system...being separated? Given to a abusive foster home, or a loving foster home with abusive foster children? (im not saying that these are the only options of foster care or the outcome of the CPS investigation, i just think its something to consider and a high likley rate that one of these scenarios will be reality of the children are indeed taken out of the home)

I am a firm believer that children should stay with their parents in most cases. I think that maybe you should try to give the parents the resources that they need to make healthier and safer choices.

The only things i see a really big issue with are the physical abuse, and leaving thier child outside alone, and the no car seat.


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## beansricerevolt (Jun 29, 2005)

The bathtub one scares the hell out of me, but I say go with your gut and stick to the obvious (car seat, abuse, bathtub, balcony fall, dirty).

Would you be willing to care for these children?


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I would butt out. Very little on your list is even outside the "norm" in most places.

-Angela


I totally agree.


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## Dabble (Jun 14, 2007)

I too would like to know what you hope to accomplish by calling CPS. Do you want the kids to be removed? Do you hope to see your IL's get in trouble so they will shape up?

I agree with all of the PP's that there are MAYBE two things on your list that CPS would even care about. If CPS in your area is slow, it MIGHT initiate a welfare check, but if they go out there and see nothing blatantly wrong, they are going to write you off as a person with a family vendetta.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

You would CALL CPS over feeding a 3 month old solids? For real? Why?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
I bolded the things that, from my understanding, would be within the jurisdiction of CPS's concern. The un-bolded things might be unpleasant parenting, but would probably not be considered neglect or abuse. (From my lay-person's understanding; I used to be a mandated reporter and so did DH when we were teaching school, so that's the level of knowledge I have.) Actually with the car seat thing, you might also get somewhere with the police as well; but that very much depends on their state and city.

stick with what the above poster bolded. Everything else is not something worthy of CPS. Most of the rest is just differeing ideas of parenting.


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## SquishyBuggles (Dec 19, 2008)

Ditto on the bolded things, that is terrible...but seeeriously, you'd call CPS on someone for feeding a 9 month old baby solids? Lock me up!


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## Aleo (Jan 1, 2009)

i'll only call the cps becuase of the abuse...

the rest, is none of you business, imo. I think we should get all the parents that give their kids fastfood


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## Ivan's Mom (Jul 10, 2006)

I would hate to have to witness such disturbing parenting. It must weigh on your mind and heart a lot.


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## Mrs. Bratton (Jan 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
You would CALL CPS over feeding a 3 month old solids? For real? Why?









I would never feed a 3mo solids but I would think CPS would laugh. 4mo is reccomended/ok'd by most peds and many parents start at 3mo. If you look at high chairs and many other feeding items they are marked "3mo - x number of years".

Some stuff really worries me.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

People have done a good job of helping you determine what is "CPS appropriate." I too would report the bolded information. If you can, try to remember some specific examples with dates or other details that will help the person taking the report.

As a foster mom (in a loving home where we don't have abusive older children-- a common type of foster home, especially among foster parents who take very young children), the one that I personally would give the most "air time" in my report is that the child is not consistently being fed. A child going hungry (that is, not being offered any food) until at least 4pm (might be later if child wasn't dropped off at your house?) is severe neglect. I am really shocked someone here considered this within the "norm."

So, in summary, you would be reporting:
1. Neglect (child not being fed, inconsistent and completely inadequate supervision, medical neglect in administration of meds, rare use of car seats)
2. Physical abuse (I would focus primarily on the child being dragged around by the hair unless you have seen bruises and other marks from the hitting, though you could mention the hitting too)
3. Emotional abuse (constant screaming)

Keep your report organized.

Assuming you will report, and I think it is well warranted, the exact response will vary by state (if you are in the U.S.) and even county. However, it will probably look something like this:

1. The person who takes the report over the phone will gather the details and then (usually in coordination with a supervisor) make a determination of whether an investigation is warranted.

2. If it is not warranted, they may choose to simply record the report but do nothing, or in some cases they will send the family a letter to serve as a type of warning.

3. If they do screen the call "in" for investigation, they will complete some type of check on the welfare of the children.

4. During the check on the children, a few things can happen:

They may decide at that point that the situation doesn't fit the abuse and neglect laws of your area. In this case, they will close the case within some short time period (a few days, a couple of weeks, or something like that). The record will show the concern as "unfounded."
They may decide that the situation doesn't fit the abuse and neglect laws of your area, but that the child is at significant enough risk that the case should remain open for a little while so they can monitor the situation and provide referrals, etc.
They may determine that the case is one of abuse and neglect, and will provide services and support while the children remain in the home and they monitor how things are going.
They may determine the case is one of abuse and neglect, and that there is an immediate danger to the children should they remain in the home. This may end up being very short-term. There are some kids who come into care for just a weekend-long period while the most immediate concerns get sorted out. Other times, kids remain in foster care for a longer period, but statistically, the majority return home within 6 months or less, and the vast, vast majority are returned by the one year mark. Meanwhile, the parents will receive services to support improvement in the areas of concern and will have visitations with the kids (#, length, and degree of supervision if any is determined by regional standards and the specifics of the case). If children are removed from a home, relative/kinship placements by law must be considered before "standard" foster care placements, though if the child is removed quickly, the child may go to a "standard" placement until a relative background check is completed.
It varies from area to area, but statistically, most calls to CPS do not result in even a temporary removal of children from their homes. The idea that a CPS call automatically means foster care is a misnomer. I've had kids come into my care who literally spent years prior in *horrendously* abusive or neglectful situations while multiple calls were made but didn't result in removal until finally during an investigation, something changed.

I don't know why it is important for you to ask yourself what your goal is in calling. The fact is, what you are describing is abuse and neglect, and the state will determine how bad it is and what that means for the future. You really have nothing to do with that. Most wrongful reports don't result in actions against the family, despite all the stuff on the internet from folks claiming their children are wrongfully in care (I know there are some folks honestly saying this, and I grieve for them, but some of the parents of foster kids I've had in my home were on the internet saying similar things when in fact they really were abusing and neglecting their children to the point that the child was very, very much in danger...knowing how often that has been true, I pay little mind to those stories).

Quote:

but seeeriously, you'd call CPS on someone for feeding a 9 month old baby solids? Lock me up!
Sounds like the OP feels she needs to report not based on one thing alone, but a collection of things...the bigger picture. I think there are enough very serious safety issues in her post that override any concern that she might be reporting for feeding alone. Clearly she is not.


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## yarngoddess (Dec 27, 2006)

I didn't think OP was going to call cps due to feeding a 3mo solids- but more the WHOLE picture. While I don't agree with what they are feeding these children it IS within the 'norm' in many areas. I would think long and hard before you call. I DO think there are reasons TO call, just organize your reasons...thoughts and feelings before you call. I think you have gotten some very great constructive critism from these other mommas.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sierra* 
A child going hungry (that is, not being offered any food) until at least 4pm (might be later if child wasn't dropped off at your house?) is severe neglect. I am really shocked someone here considered this within the "norm."

But what about the big picture? How is the family's lifestyle?

Because I tell ya, my family is a bunch of nightowls. Many times we don't wake up until near noon. And sometimes my DD (also 3.5) gets caught up with playing that she doesn't eat until the late afternoon. There were times my DD hadn't really eaten until 4pm, and that's without the 5 bottles of milk this other kid had.

So while this kid should probably be checked up on, I wouldn't call it "severe abuse" just on principle.


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## Miss 1928 (Nov 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
Unfortunately, a lot of the food issues are non-issues. I don't think it's against the law to feed your kid crap. .....
.....

Unfortunately.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I would butt out. Very little on your list is even outside the "norm" in most places.

-Angela

Also, unfortunate, but true. Makes me want to cry.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Yeah, I think live the solids issue out. I'm not sure about the falling down the stairs thing either. My middle kid did that around 1 yo, and yes, three times. And yes, we had a gate. And yes, we are attentive, loving parents. Alone, that's not an abuse issue. But in the context of the other things, it might be a symptom of neglict.

What I might call for
--lack of care for the asthma
--not using carseats
--being left alone in the bath
--the lawnmower incident

But before you call, are you absolutely certain that these children would be better served in the foster system than with their parents, as unfortunate as their parenting choices may be?


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

CPS might not even care about the car seats. I had a social worker who never ever used car seats correctly when she picked up my foster kids (who should have been harnessed at the time, being in just a booster, not just by size, but by LAW). No amount of speaking to her or her supervisors, or the director changed anything.


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## nycmom18 (Dec 9, 2008)

not meant to start an argument here...but for those of you who dont see a real problem with this, and is "within the norm", are you serious? i personally agree with the original post that most of this stuff is horrible to hear that children are going through it, and quite dangerous. is this really the norm? i am terribly sad for many children if this is true. i would definitely try to give parents resources to learn from and tell them that they have the possibility of losing their children if they were to continue in these ways.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

honestly the only thing on that list that would warrant a CPS call is the pulling the 3.5yo around by the hair.

Everything else is parenting differences.


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nycmom18* 
not meant to start an argument here...but for those of you who dont see a real problem with this, and is "within the norm", are you serious? i personally agree with the original post that most of this stuff is horrible to hear that children are going through it, and quite dangerous. is this really the norm? i am terribly sad for many children if this is true. i would definitely try to give parents resources to learn from and tell them that they have the possibility of losing their children if they were to continue in these ways.


Everyone else is being realistic. You probably won't find many people HERE who feed solids to 3 month olds because many of the people HERE are passionate and knowledgable about breastfeeding. You will find many "mainstream" parents, grandparents, and even entire cultures where that is the norm.

And if the OP calls and sounds like a raving lunatic to her local CPS office, the "real" abuse may not be taken seriously or investigated.

By following a more "crunchy" path with our parenting methods, we are all part of a counter culture. Now, we _could_ go to war with "mainstream" parenting methods but most of us here don't want to go to war with our mainstream friends. We'll just let our EBF, co-sleeping, organic eating, non-circed, etc. etc. healthy children to speak for themselves someday.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nycmom18* 
not meant to start an argument here...but for those of you who dont see a real problem with this, and is "within the norm", are you serious? i personally agree with the original post that most of this stuff is horrible to hear that children are going through it, and quite dangerous. is this really the norm? i am terribly sad for many children if this is true. i would definitely try to give parents resources to learn from and tell them that they have the possibility of losing their children if they were to continue in these ways.

Oh, I see a problem with it. I see TONS of problems with it. But nothing she listed would shock people around here. People who live in the country let little kids 4-wheel... a lawn mower isn't going to shock them. Especially if it was a one time- oopsie thing. The food- norm. Yeah. I'm serious.

-Angela


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:

not meant to start an argument here...but for those of you who dont see a real problem with this, and is "within the norm", are you serious? i personally agree with the original post that most of this stuff is horrible to hear that children are going through it, and quite dangerous. is this really the norm? i am terribly sad for many children if this is true. i would definitely try to give parents resources to learn from and tell them that they have the possibility of losing their children if they were to continue in these ways.
yup I"m serious.

Feeding a 3month old solid food is not recommended by say half of the doctors out there. If she was to call on this & it was such a huge concern why wait until the child is 9months old? Why not call at the time? Also, what type of foods was the 3month old being fed? There are dr's who still recommend giving a 6week old cereal for reflux. Idea no but it's not a reason to call cps either.

a 3.5year old in the tub by himself, imo not a big deal either. there are threads on mdc about it When my kids were younger than 3.5 they were in the tub by themselves. Same with going outside unsupervised.

not being fed food till 4pm, while I don't do that alot of parents around here do & they're not neglectful of thier kids. Maybe they tried to feed the kid & they kid wouldn't eat.

going to fast food restaurants is not a reason to call.

Even all together the only thing I see a reason to call is the pulling them around by the hair.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CarrieMF* 
honestly the only thing on that list that would warrant a CPS call is the pulling the 3.5yo around by the hair.

Everything else is parenting differences.

Not using carseats is not a "parenting difference". It's illegal.

Not feeding children is neglect, not a parenting difference (I'm leaving aside completely the issue of what is being fed).

Not giving a child needed medication, so that the child ends up constantly at the ER, is medical neglect, and in the case of asthma, life-threatening.

I agree with other: let the issues of fast food, TV, swearing, early solids, etc. go and focus on the things that are real abuse. FTR, I don't see anything wrong with a 3.5 year old who has a pacifier, in and of itself.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Some of the things on that list are horrible.

Some are parenting differences.

Some are things that I have done, and no doubt some other moms on MDC have done some things from that list as well. Who's first in line with the stones?


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## ilovebabies (Jun 7, 2008)

Although I see some things on the list that definitely qualify as abuse or neglect, it's only a few things. Don't get me wrong, whether it's a few or just one thing, it's too many.

What I find interesting that you've made such a long mental checklist of your IL's care of their children. I mean really, you're paying that close attention to what they eat at Thanksgiving? How do you have time for that? I'm not trying to be harsh, but wow, you've got quite a detailed list there. I understand why some of those things bother you (obviously the physical abuse for example, I'd feel the same!) but you're really being kind of picky on many things. For example, just because YOU don't think it's acceptable to start babies on solids at the age of 3 months, that doesn't qualify it as abuse.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

I agree with most everyone else. Some things on your list certaintly make me take pause but the only things I see as true abuse/against the law is the pulling by the hair and not putting them in car seats. From your description they don't sound like great parents but that in itself is not abuse. I would try to step back and put aside how you feel about their food choices and other non-abusive parenting choices (which have already been pointed out) and if you still see abuse do what you feel is best.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

You can call CPS, but that does not mean that CPS is going to force your parenting beliefs on these parents. They might investigate the perceived neglect and lack of supervisions, but they are more likely to dismiss you as a crank when they read this laundry list of complaints about things that are none of your business.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I would butt out. Very little on your list is even outside the "norm" in most places.

-Angela


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

I would listen to Sierra's post. She knows what she's talking about.

And to some other posters-- I don't think the OP is being nitpicky and judgmental. I think her gut feeling is that these kids are in real danger, and so that knowledge makes her ultra-vigilant. I have been in this kind of situation before, taking much more note of what someone else's child's life is like than I might otherwise. I don't generally care or make much note of what other parents choose to do differently-- feed their babies solids at two months, that kind of thing-- but when my gut feeling tells me something is _really_ wrong, that's when I pay attention and start taking notes.

I agree that some of the stuff on the list doesn't bug me at all-- letting the preschooler bathe alone-- not a big deal, depends on the situation/bathtub/child-- the pacifier and drooling-- not necessarily the parents' fault-- the raw chin is a side affect of the allergies and the pacifier is probably very comforting to the child. So I don't see that as an issue.

But I think that's why she didn't do/say anything 6 months ago, when they first started their three-month-old on solids-- because each little thing is not her real concern. Her real concern is the big picture here, and that something just feels really unsafe about the whole situation. Sometimes you have to type it all out to get a sense of the big picture for yourself, to help you work through your own feelings and examine the facts of the matter.


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## Lemon Juice (Jun 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Oh, I see a problem with it. I see TONS of problems with it. But nothing she listed would shock people around here. People who live in the country let little kids 4-wheel... a lawn mower isn't going to shock them. Especially if it was a one time- oopsie thing. The food- norm. Yeah. I'm serious.

-Angela

I agree. I am from a small town in south TX and things like this happen all.the.time. 7 yrs ago when I was living there my friend was giving her 3 month old tastes of soda in a bottle!


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## ancoda (Oct 17, 2005)

I think I would call, but I would stick to the really bad issues.
The main one that stands out to me is the medical neglect of not giving him his medication.
And the physical abuse of pulling him around by his hair(have you accually seen them do this?, they will ask).
The no carseat really matters on where they live. This will either be seen as horrible or just as a so-so bad thing. Though it is illegal in all of the US, some regions just really don't care.
If the lawn mower is a reoccurring thing I would report it. If it is a one time oops, then don't bother.
When you call, they are going to want to know how much of this is first hand knowledge, and how much is not.


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## Quickbeam (Jan 6, 2009)

Quote:

is this really the norm? i am terribly sad for many children if this is true.
From my experience with at-risk children, just about everything on that list is mild. It's horrible, but true.

I think Sierra offered a great response.

I'm sorry you are witness to their neglect and abuse. It's an awful place to be.


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## kangaroomum25 (Jun 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lemon Juice* 
I agree. I am from a small town in south TX and things like this happen all.the.time. 7 yrs ago when I was living there my friend was giving her 3 month old tastes of soda in a bottle!

Are you near me? I know a woman that was bragging about feeding her *2 week old* mashed potatos! I see coke in baby bottles all the time.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Oh, I see a problem with it. I see TONS of problems with it. But nothing she listed would shock people around here. People who live in the country let little kids 4-wheel... a lawn mower isn't going to shock them. Especially if it was a one time- oopsie thing. The food- norm. Yeah. I'm serious.

-Angela

I agree 100 percent. It seems my organic, non-processed, no fast food, gentle discipline, not CIO, is looked upon as WEIRD, while what the OP is describing most people around where I live would look at you and say "And what is the problem?" Sad, but true.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Although it doesn't seem to be the case here, in other cases we would say that some of this might qualify as neglect out of poverty... Not feeding a child formula, introducing solids early (because its cheaper than formula), not giving medication, not feeding a child sufficient food or offering meals, not babyproofing stairs... For many families there are the reality of living in poverty and I'd hate for us to decide that being poor means deserving to have your children removed.

Like others, I think there are a few things on your list that would warrent further attention. But many are just different choices than you would make. Trying to convince CPS that they should take action because the 3 1/2 YO eats McDonalds isn't going to get you taken seriously. Focus on the well documented generally accepted as wrong stuff.


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

I would NOT call CPS. While I would never ever do any of those things listed I have to wonder which is worse... those things or potentially being separated from their parents. My parents didn't always put us in carseats and while I agree it's 100% dangerous I would have been devastated and scarred for life if I had to go into foster care because of it.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

Quote:

You would CALL CPS over feeding a 3 month old solids? For real? Why?

Right? That was my first thought.


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## junipermoon (Nov 19, 2008)

Sierra said:


> "There are some kids who come into care for just a weekend-long period while the most immediate concerns get sorted out. Other times, kids remain in foster care for a longer period, but statistically, the majority return home within 6 months or less, and the vast, vast majority are returned by the one year mark. "
> 
> I know that foster care outcome data, in terms of comprehensive nationwide numbers, is shockingly sparse and what is there is disparate, so I keep this in mind here, but the numbers I found were different from yours:
> 
> ...


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## SunshineJ (Mar 26, 2008)

Y'know, chances are a call to CPS isn't going to make this situation any better. I know you stated that you no longer have a relationship with these people, but perhaps you may want to revisit that. If you did develop a relationship with them, then you'd be in a better position to truely help them - pointing out that you didn't want them to get in trouble with the police if they ever got pulled over simply because they weren't using the carseat or booster (heck, take the kid out and let him pick out a new one, they aren't very expensive for the basics, and that's better than nothing, then HE will be asking to use it as a reminder for them as well!). Also, you could offer to call them every day or set up a timer alarm to remind them to give him his medications. Are you sure it's not a money issue either? Meds can get prohibitively expensive for daily use. It's often been said that the best way to teach is through example, and showing them how a lack of violence can still get positive results may eventually get through. As for the other stuff, I'm sorry but a lot of it seems petty and simply the result of different parenting styles. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

K.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
Just to clarify, I myself WOULD call CPS in the situation you describe. But I would stick to the bolded parts (which are basically the non-food-related parts) in my report.

I agree with this.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

I agree everything on that list is bad parenting - its not all considered abuse and neglect BY CPS STANDARDS though. But some of it may be. unfortunately I hear of parents getting away with a lot worse even when CPS is involved. Would you or any other family members be willing to take the children in if they were removed from that home? Foster care can sometimes be worse... which is kind of why I want to be a foster parent one day - one more safe home out there for kids to go to... but this is a tough situation. If they would do anything about it, I'd be calling CPS over a lot of things. I sometimes wish people would call CPS on people just so CPS can go check things out and maybe that would be a enough of a reality check/scare to get them to stop what they are doing. I wish someone had called CPS on my mom when I was growing up - she never physically abused me or "put me down" but she hit and she was still emotionally abusive in other ways..


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I would butt out. Very little on your list is even outside the "norm" in most places.

This.

Personally, I've done/I do a bunch of the things on your list . . . my kids were bathing alone at 3 1/2, they're allowed to watch whatever they want on tv, they swear, my daughter was certainly outside alone at that age with enough time to start up the lawn mower . . . never happened, but I suppose it could have.

It sounds like you think they're bad parents (and from a lot of the things on your list, I'd agree) but the odds of CPS or foster care making things better for the kids is virtually nil. Butt out.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

I don't have time to find my source, as it is packed away in a box from a training I took somewhere, but it was a government source (perhaps on the old side though, probably from about six years ago). It indicated that the vast majority of kids did return home within a year. Given that I don't have the source to cite, I'll simply respond to your own source.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *junipermoon* 
from the us dept of health and human services:
"the median across States of children entering foster care who were reunified in less than 12 months was only 38.7 percent and the 75th percentile was only 48.3 percent (measure C1.3). Thus, in at least 75 percent of the States, the majority of children who entered foster care in the last 6 months of 2004 were still in foster care 12 months later."

From the same document:
"The 2005 data shown in table III-1 suggest that, in many States, a majority of children discharged to reunification were reunified in a timely manner. Across States, the median length of stay of children reunified was 6.8 months (measure C1.2), and the median percentage of reunifications occurring in less than 12 months was about 70 percent (measure 4.1 and C1.1)."

There are basically two different measures being used, which accounts for the difference in that particular document.

By the way, check out the total number of kids in care noted here: http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/s...ars/trends.htm. 496,000 at the end of a year is a very small number when you consider how many reports are likely made each month. Though a half a million is a lot, in total, it is fewer than 1% of all kids in the US (about 0.6%).


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

Quote:

Not using carseats is not a "parenting difference". It's illegal.
9month old yes, 3.5 year old it depends on where you live. Here as long as the child is over 40lbs it would not be illegal to have a 3.5year old with no carseat or booster. This is also not something I"d get CPS involved in, if they have a carseat I'd talk to the parents.

Quote:

Not feeding children is neglect, not a parenting difference (I'm leaving aside completely the issue of what is being fed).
the kids ARE being fed, just not when the op thinks they should be. Times of day kids are fed are parenting differences.

Quote:

Not giving a child needed medication, so that the child ends up constantly at the ER, is medical neglect, and in the case of asthma, life-threatening.
Can the parents afford the medication all the time? If they child was not given the meds but stayed out of the attack creating atmospheres would they have attacks? IF the child had the meds per dr's schedule is there any guarnatee that the child would not still have attacks & be in ER once a month? I don't consider it medical neglect.


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

Those of you who are bothered that the solids at 3 months were listed, note that was one thing amongst lots more that worried the OP. She is not saying she'd report for starting solids prematurely, just that it was one of many harmful things she saw going on.

I only see a handful of things there that would be taken seriously, but those certainly should be investigated:
Not giving the medication for life-threatening problems
Not feeding the kids anything
Not feeding an infant any formula
Not using carseats
Physical and verbal abuse

Maybe they'd shape up with the department breathing down their necks about it? Or maybe classes or help with groceries they could get hooked up with as a result of the investigation may help? I don't know.


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

the solids wouldn't even be on my list, personally, but yes, i would call CPS. they are (allegedly) neglecting him medically and physically.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

the kids ARE being fed, just not when the op thinks they should be. Times of day kids are fed are parenting differences.
How did you establish that?!

The OP didn't indicate that the children were being fed at alternate times, but rather that there were long stretches of time that they were not being fed (presumably they are awake, and probably even saying they are hungry, because they are drinking bottles of milk...I have known some parents of kids who ended up in care who would offer milk-- or worse-- to drink as an alternative to making the effort to actually feed the children when they said they were hungry).

Have you experienced hunger lately? I have, even just during an overnight fast, and milk doesn't cut the pain over the stretch once you get hungry, which could be why the kid is asking for bottles all day long (the OP did report the child might have five bottles before coming over at 4pm).


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

The reason I think the "not being fed" might not be an issue- is that many older toddlers in some communities are allowed to keep bottles of milk as main nutrition. Since there is the mention of 5 bottles, I think the idea is that the toddler was having milk *instead* of solids. Could be a finicky kid, could be a medical thing, who knows.

-Angela


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## FnkyGreenMama (Nov 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leosmommy* 

-he is often hit, slapped, screamed at, pulled around by his hair

This is why you should call. I say this as someone who works with children, who frequently has contact with Children's Aid (Ontario's CPS), as I am obligated by law to make a report if I come into any information that would indicate physical abuse (or other types of abuse, of course). The other things that you mention are part of a bigger picture, as PP's said, and paint a picture of parenting difference and neglectful parenting in some instances. Maybe CPS, if they investigated, would see all of these other things going on and intervene in the areas that they could. But the physical abuse is not acceptable and the child deserves to be protected. When you call, I would focus on the concerns that relate to physical safety, and I would give specific examples of what you have seen or heard.


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## Spirit Dancer (Dec 11, 2006)

Some of the stuff does sound bad but I would not call. It is not to far outside mainstream norms.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Spirit Dancer* 
Some of the stuff does sound bad but I would not call. It is not to far outside mainstream norms.

I will say again: being hit, slapped and *dragged around by the hair* is VERY outside of the "norm" (and abusive, regardless of whether it is "normal"). Not being put in a carseat is both outside the norm and illegal. These ARE things that CPS investigates.

If the OP is that concerned, given what she's posted, I think she should call CPS and discuss her concerns. If these things are truly "no big deal", CPS will not get involved. Honestly, I'm a little shocked at some of the things that people on this thread are saying are "normal."


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## neveryoumindthere (Mar 21, 2003)

nak
ok i read most of fthe replies, but not all..is there a reason you can't talk to them about this? or have someone else do so?
i mean, do you really want cps involved right off, with your dh's _siblings_?


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## Murihiku (Oct 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
Honestly, I'm a little shocked at some of the things that people on this thread are saying are "normal."

The word "mainstream" really confuses me on this thread. Is "mainstream" meant to mean "majority" or "middle-of-the-road" or "underclass" or "evil" or what, exactly?

I would never characterize the treatment of this child as mainstream, but maybe I have just lived a privileged and sheltered life--and I am totally willing to believe that is the case.


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## Murihiku (Oct 2, 2008)

Actually I re-read the thread and people aren't really using "mainstream" but rather "the norm" and in quotation marks too, but since I think of the two as synonyms I now have a new insight into the use of the word "mainstream" on MDC. I mean, I always thought _I_ was mainstream until I found this site.

To the OP: I'm so sorry you have to witness this and have such an array of different advice to confuse you.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I think you should call, but only mention the stuff that CPS is going to care about--the physical abuse and neglect. The food stuff just makes it sound like you have a vendetta against them.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

I think "the norm" in this thread refers to "common and legal." In some regions, some of these things (like the carseat issue) are very common.


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SunshineJ* 
Y'know, chances are a call to CPS isn't going to make this situation any better. I know you stated that you no longer have a relationship with these people, but perhaps you may want to revisit that. If you did develop a relationship with them, then you'd be in a better position to truely help them - pointing out that you didn't want them to get in trouble with the police if they ever got pulled over simply because they weren't using the carseat or booster (heck, take the kid out and let him pick out a new one, they aren't very expensive for the basics, and that's better than nothing, then HE will be asking to use it as a reminder for them as well!). Also, you could offer to call them every day or set up a timer alarm to remind them to give him his medications. Are you sure it's not a money issue either? Meds can get prohibitively expensive for daily use. It's often been said that the best way to teach is through example, and showing them how a lack of violence can still get positive results may eventually get through. As for the other stuff, I'm sorry but a lot of it seems petty and simply the result of different parenting styles. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

K.

I was thinking about this too.

Maybe you can help more with contact and interaction then you can with a CPS call.















: Tough situation to be in either way.


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

CPS can and does mandate parenting classes, and they don't always take children into care. i would hope that anyone who knew a child was being abused like that would call.







and quite frankly, it just might be healthier if they DID take the kid into custody.


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## jacie87 (Jan 17, 2009)

I read the list of concerns and my initial response was I felt horrified that there are parents out there, but then I recalled being accused of neglect for my parenting decisions. I went over to a friend's house and her mother was horrified that I almost exclusively breastfeed my 12 month old. She suggested several times that I was neglectful for not giving her 3 meals a day of solids. She offered infant cereal made with formula 4 or 5 times and was clearly offended when I turned it down. At the time I was feeding DD about half a container of organic fruit each day at noon (more if she wanted, but usually that was all she'd eat) and after that just breastmilk for the day. I went to her house at about 1pm until late in the evening, and she truly saw my parenting as neglect. Now I'm not at all advocating the parenting style the OP is complaining about, but being on the other end of it having been called neglectful and abusive (apparently cosleeping and EC is harmful), I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to deal with CPS over my parenting decisions. I disagree very much with giving a 3 month old solids but I also understand that many people find that completely normal and even expected. My mother put soda in my bottle when I was an infant and she thinks it's horrible that DD is mostly breastfed and not allowed to watch TV.

I think the best thing to do at this point is perhaps get closer to them and see if the physical abuse is an ongoing thing and try to offer advice/information. Perhaps you could invite them to a class on parenting or nutrition and if you will be there as well they may feel less criticized for their lifestyle. The abuse and neglect may simply be a case of ignorance and encouraging them to become informed may make a difference. I'd give it a little more time and if the abuse continues then you can always call CPS later.


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## junipermoon (Nov 19, 2008)

i think everyone posting likely has the children's best interest in mind.

whether to involve cps is often a tough issue though because the possibility of forced removal into foster care, for whatever length of time, in many people's minds is possibly more dangerous/damaging than all but the most extreme abuses (malnutrition where there is wasting, rape, broken bones, etc) partly because of the separation from primary attachment figures and partly because of the extreme abuses that have been documented to occur in *some* foster placements. the mortality rate of children in foster care far exceeds that of the general population, for instance. that in and of itself is scary.

no child should be neglected or abused. it does suck that there is not a state option that is less risky.

anecdotally speaking here, in terms of the food thing, when i worked at an age 0-12 live in assessment program for foster kids, one of the things that consistently happened at mealtimes was foster kids praising our not too extraordinary menu/meal offerings. lots of stories of not being fed enough in foster care. lots of too thin kids coming in. not the majority--but it was an issue. you can't assume foster care will solve the food problem, honestly.

heck, 2 of my three kids joined my family by way of foster-to-adopt care because of the failures of foster care. the boys were staying at the facility where i worked and their social worker came out 2 days before their discharge and when i asked why there was no placement identified yet he sighed and said it was because he couldn't find anywhere safe for them at the moment. they were so little--7 months and 5 years old. the worker was forced to put them into emergency care--24 four hour placements that change every day. i applied to foster them until their mama got into substance abuse treatment. i really wanted to help her out so that her kids weren't too traumatized by more (unsafe) moves to stabilize when she got them back. she ended up deciding not to work for custody and i eventually adopted the boys. i grieve with them not just for the loss of their mama but also for their experiences bouncing around in care.

i know there are lots of wonderful foster families and also some great services that cps can offer parents working to become better able to care for their kids. no denying. some systems are better than others and sometimes good things happen even in the more stressed systems. but there are also lots of not so wonderful foster families, social workers, and mismatched placements that occur (3 of the 10 placements my oldest was in spoke only spanish in the home though my son spoke no spanish at all, for instance) even in good foster homes.

all that said, there are times when i do feel involving cps is appropriate, even if you are not a mandated reporter. it is rife with abuses but it is the only system we have when peer to peer support falls apart. if you know a child is in immediate danger, i think you should look at all your options.

to the op--I am so sorry you are having to witness these children's misfortune. if you know that the older child is being dragged around by the hair and and hit (assumedly in your presence)--have you asked the child about what goes on when you are *not* around? when there are no witnesses? have there ever been unexplained broken bones, black eyes, etc? that would be something to consider/explore. you might be able to work with the parents to get them to use carseats, etc, but physical abuse is a difficult behavior to unlearn and these children are very young.

assuming the kids do not actually appear malnourished, the physical abuse and the carseats, imo, stand out as the most dangerous elements of the story to me.

could you tell the family your concerns, tell them you are worried enough that you are considering calling cps, and work towards solutions from there?


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## FnkyGreenMama (Nov 27, 2008)

I know there are tons of responses on here, but I just wanted to add to my previous post, since I was thinking about this a lot last night. It seems that some posters may be concerned about the children being placed in care. Maybe it's a case of the devil you know ... or the child's right to not go into a presumed crappy foster home vs his right to not live in an abusive or neglectful home (if that is indeed the case). Maybe it's hesitation to "judge" another parent when none of us are perfect or to jeopardize the relationship with the other parent.

IME putting children into care is at the far end of a long continuum of interventions, and even at that, there is a continuum within that option (kinship care, foster home, treatment, etc.). In my area there has been a recent push for CAS to consider family/friend placement before anything else. However, children aren't removed at all unless there is immediate danger or after long term interventions that aren't successful. Most of the time families are given support and access to resources they otherwise wouldn't have.

Again I say, this sounds like possible physical abuse and the child deserves to be protected above all else. The longer that abuse continues, the more likely that a child will come to more serious harm. That's my 2 cents.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Sierra's posts have been exactly in line with my experience and training in the mental health field, and as a mandated reporter working with children.

I would disregard the advice to think about what you want to accomplish by calling. It can tear you up to try to make judgements about what actions CPS ought to take, and its really not your job and not a decision you can even be a part of. If you have concerns, then you should call CPS and leave it to them to decide if your concerns are legitimate or not.

That said, if I were in your shoes I would consider the following from your list worth reporting, but I would try my best to cite very specific examples of these behaviors along with dates:

Quote:

-he is often hit, slapped, screamed at, pulled around by his hair
This indicates physical abuse, and I think they will ask you to describe the incidents that you witnessed this and to give details, so be prepared with that information.

Quote:

-he is always ridiculed when he has an "accident"
This shows that he may be subject to emotional abuse. Add to that, some huge percentage of child abuse occurs around the issue of toilet training. I think this is important to mention.

Quote:

-they rarely use a car seat for either child in their minivan
This is an obvious legal issue. I would be prepared again, to mention specific incidents where you witnessed their failure to use a car seat.

Quote:

-sometimes they will come over to visit at 4 pm, and the 3 1/2 year old will still not have been fed ALL DAY, or will have only had bottles (up to 5 in one day) of cow's milk
-the 9 month old has fallen down the stairs at least 3 times
-3 1/2 year old is left to play outside, by himself, no supervision or even an eye on him from a window. they live on a busy street and do not have a fence.
-he doesn't like to have his hair washed in the bath tub, and so it never gets done
All of this indicates neglect. I think it is important to mention the fact that he is often dirty -- this is an indicator that tends to get the attention of CPS.

They will ask you further questions. Some of the other things on your list may come up in the course of the conversation.

Keep in mind that while CPS does not follow-up on every individual report, they are more likely to follow-up if there have been previous reports. As a mandated reporter, I have had CPS intervene in situations simply because I was the 2nd or 3rd person to file a report. Your report may well provide validation for someone else's (or vice-versa.)


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## irony_optional (Jan 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
I will say again: being hit, slapped and *dragged around by the hair* is VERY outside of the "norm" (and abusive, regardless of whether it is "normal"). Not being put in a carseat is both outside the norm and illegal. These ARE things that CPS investigates.


Yep. For those alone, call, and damn the anonymity. Those kids are in trouble, and you have a duty to report, as far as I'm concerned.


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
While philosophically, I agree 110%.... the state does not.

-Angela

for the record, i differentiate between spanking-in-'mainstream'-culture, and being pulled around by your hair. i'm not saying CPS is a magical unicorn warrior, but how can you know that a child is being abused and not call?


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leosmommy* 
Here's a list of why I would call CPS on my ILs...

-they introduced food at 3 months to both kids, one is 3 1/2, one 9 months
-3 1/2 y/o has severe asthma and allergies, and they forget his meds more often than he actually gets them (he goes to the ER at least once a month for a severe asthma/allergy attack)
-they take him many places that make his allergies/asthma act up, knowing in advance this will happen, but do it anyway (example: to people's homes with pets/outdoor mold issues)
-the 9 month old was fed the following at Xmas dinner: lemon meringue pie, mashed potatoes made with cream and butter with gravy on them, hawaiian punch from a sippy cup, chocolate chip cookies, cake, and not a single bottle of formula for the 8 hours that we were there
-the 3 1/2 year old is often left alone in the bath tub with the bathroom door shut while they go downstairs/outside for a few minutes/to another room
-he has gotten on the lawn mower, started it up, and driven it across the yard by himself (all of this unsupervised until they saw him zipping across the back yard as they were in the front)
*-he recently jumped off a 2nd story balcony (they were having a party downstairs and didn't notice he had left the room)*
*-he is often hit, slapped, screamed at, pulled around by his hair*
-he is always ridiculed when he has an "accident"
*-they rarely use a car seat for either child in their minivan*
-sometimes they will come over to visit at 4 pm, and the 3 1/2 year old will still not have been fed ALL DAY, or will have only had bottles (up to 5 in one day) of cow's milk
-the 9 month old has fallen down the stairs at least 3 times
-3 1/2 year old is left to play outside, by himself, no supervision or even an eye on him from a window. they live on a busy street and do not have a fence.
-regular meals are almost always eaten (for all of the family) at fast food restaurants (McDonald's, pizza shops), a typical meal is a burger, french fries, and a milkshake (this is for both children, they each get their own kids meal)
-the children watch anything and everything on t.v., the 3 1/2 year old swears in almost every sentence
-he still uses a pacifier, and his chin is always red, irritated, and sometimes raw from the constant drool
-he doesn't like to have his hair washed in the bath tub, and so it never gets done

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting. What would you do? We don't have a relationship with them (wonder why?) and I'm pretty sure if I report them I can remain anonymous (and if I couldn't I would do it anyway).

We've tried talking to them, they don't think they do anything wrong. We have tried talking to others in the family, and nobody seems to care. They know that the children are in obvious danger, but no one wants to be the "bad guy" and do anything about it.

I'm posting without reading what everyone else wrote....

the only things that you can call cps for are the things listed I bolded. and honestly, as bad as it sounds like they are, the kids could be even worse off in the system. i wouldn't call, personall.y but i WOULD warn them that if i saw the children out of their carseats I would be required to report it. But I am a mandated reporter, so this would not be a lie.

Everything else is a parenting choice. I live in a neighborhood full of people jsut like this. Some of them are foster parnets.







everyone is not the same, and I have to respect that, even if it reeeeaaaally bothers me.


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## Anna's Lovey (Dec 24, 2008)

I'm surprised that some people are saying "butt out."
Not using a car seat is a big deal. I wasn't allowed to leave the hospital until I showed the nurse that I had a car seat.
Also, someone in my building got a call for letting their child play too near the stairs so playing alone on a street would warrent a call in my opinion.
if you call it's not like cps is going to pluck them away and place them in foster care, they investigate the situation first.
Call. the "bad guys" are the ones who stand by and don't do anything.


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## Freud (Jan 21, 2008)

I would absolutely call. There are several troublesome things in your list. Hopefully CPS takes the opportunity to educate the parents.

And, for what it's worth, the food issues, especially the long periods of time without offering food, will most likely be a concern to CPS. I knew of a family who had CPS called on them for only feeding their baby 3 times per day. They seriously would only offer her food(formula) when they were eating themselves(breakfast, lunch, dinner). CPS took it seriously.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

I would not consider calling unless:

1) The behavior was consistent and frequent
2) The parents made it clear/obvious that they were not going to change, and/or offered up no indication of remorse

So a 3.5 made it outside and started up a mower. Why is this astonishing? I know of 13 month old kids who could unlock a car, climb in and put the key in the ignition. Kids are houdinis.

Now, if the kid was doing this regularly and the parents were laughing about it, that changes things.

What makes the list either picky or serious is consistency.

I can think of lots of situations....

What if the baby was on a feeding strike so the parents, in desparation/ignorance, fed the baby solids?

What if last night was a bad night, so everyone stayed up late and slept in late. You wake up at noon, a couple bottles later it's 4pm. How is that starvation and neglect??

The only two things I could pinpoint as inherently *wrong* would be pulling hair and not having the 9mo in a carseat.


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## Dewberry (Aug 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
Unfortunately, a lot of the food issues are non-issues. I don't think it's against the law to feed your kid crap.


This! at least the kid is fed.
Also the pacifier and drool thing isn't against the law either.
The shampooing hair isn't a big deal either.
NEITHER is feeding your kids cow milk. Babies DO drink 5 bottles a day (sometimes more of breast milk so...

Good Luck- but you most likely would need proof or they'll have to find the proof they need, sadly.







They made stick around for a while though and see what happens..who knows?!


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anna's Lovey* 
Call. the "bad guys" are the ones who stand by and don't do anything.

I sort of feel this way too.


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## Relynn (Aug 18, 2006)

I wish the family could see this thread and know their lives hang in the balance as a decision is made based on strangers on the internet say "Call CPS". yuck. I don't trust government agencies, at all. Its weird how many of you turn to the government to "help".


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

The hitting and hair-pulling are the CPS-worthy parts. Also the medication-forgetting (if it really IS more often than they remember) for something life-threatening.


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## K&JsMaMa (May 26, 2002)

What's stopping you?

eta: I've not read all the responses, so maybe this has been covered. But clearly there are signs of abuse. Why haven't you called?


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

OP~ Maybe you could spend more time with the kids. Invite them over, take them to do fun things. That'd be an easy way to keep track of them without the disruption of CPS in their lives.

FWIW I saw in another thread that you & your child don't have a bed. That would be _majorly_ frowned upon by CPS... that doesn't make it wrong.


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## Luckiestgirl (Nov 10, 2004)

Someone I am close with had to call CPS on behalf of a child at her school (she's an educator). She called because of suspected physical abuse (frequent, nasty bruises on arms, and stories from the child.)

CPS temporarily removed the child from the home until the guardians underwent counseling. At that point, the child was returned.

While in foster care, the child was sexually abused by an older foster child in the home.

The person who called CPS is obviously pretty upset about this.

I agree that there are cases where CPS should be called, but I'm also realistic: there are far too many foster homes that are as dangerous as the home from which the child is removed to start with.

I don't want to start a debate; I know there are MANY WONDERFUL foster parents out there, many on these boards. But the kind of situation I mentioned is hardly isolated.

So I'd rethink what you want to come out of the situation, because there is always a chance the child will be removed from the home.


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## BennyPai (Jul 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
I agree 100 percent. It seems my organic, non-processed, no fast food, gentle discipline, not CIO, is looked upon as WEIRD, while what the OP is describing most people around where I live would look at you and say "And what is the problem?" Sad, but true.

I agree with this poster. THe feeding issues are really parenting differences.

The physical abuse and medication issues are should be addressed!

FWIW, I have had more than one child since 2005, and as vigilant as I try to be, accidents happen - repeatedly sometimes.







When I had just one dd, there were far fewer accidents ...

OP - I'm sorry you have to witness the abuse.







Have you discussed any of this with the parents?
ETA: I see where you mentioned talking with them - which issues did you discuss? Did you discuss the hitting?


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## NewMama2007 (Mar 4, 2007)

Ditto PP's - the food stuff won't be an issue to CPS. They will do nothing about poor nutritional choices (hello! Look at the rest of our country! Not a priority.).

CPS' job is to determine if child abuse/neglect is present. They rely upon reports to go out to the home and make that determination. If you feel that the child is in danger, call. It's confidential, you don't have to give your name. Just tell them what you know. They will determine if it is a situation that needs mediation. Maybe if there is an investigaion, the parents would step up a bit and change their "parenting" style.


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## NewMama2007 (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Luckiestgirl* 
Someone I am close with had to call CPS on behalf of a child at her school (she's an educator). She called because of suspected physical abuse (frequent, nasty bruises on arms, and stories from the child.)

CPS temporarily removed the child from the home until the guardians underwent counseling. At that point, the child was returned.

While in foster care, the child was sexually abused by an older foster child in the home.

The person who called CPS is obviously pretty upset about this.

I agree that there are cases where CPS should be called, but I'm also realistic: there are far too many foster homes that are as dangerous as the home from which the child is removed to start with.

I don't want to start a debate; I know there are MANY WONDERFUL foster parents out there, many on these boards. But the kind of situation I mentioned is hardly isolated.

So I'd rethink what you want to come out of the situation, because there is always a chance the child will be removed from the home.

There is probably a pretty minute chance of that happening again.

There is always a chance the child will be removed - but in a case like this, where there is not likely to be evidence of physical harm, mediation is more likely. CPS is not there to steal children away from their parents - their utmost goal is family preservation. If anything, they would put in the care plan appropriate discipline, hygeine, etc. and follow up frequently until the issues are addressed. Leaving a child in a harmful enviornment is much more irresponsible than trying to do something for that child.


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

I see this thread is long, but...

If you're going to call CPS on the food issues, you might as well call CPS on the rest of America.

The supervision issues are serious.... especially the bathtub one. I am confused though, you said he doesn't take baths, so how is he left unsupervised in the tub?


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

Personally, most of those are crappy, but not cps worthy. I would be concerned about the hitting and not being fed regularly (if you know for a fact that's happening).

But I would also take a very long, hard look at the feeling behind this. Are you sure it is as bad as it seems or are you letting your (obviously) negative feeling towards the parents cloud your perception.


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:

-he is often hit, slapped, screamed at, pulled around by his hair
(THIS IS THE ONLY ONE REALLY CPS-WORTHY OUT OF THE WHOLE LIST)
-he is always ridiculed when he has an "accident"
*(AGAIN I AGREE WITH YOU THAT IT IS BAD - BUT NOT CPS BAD)*
I disagree. That is definitely "CPS BAD". Emotional abuse is just as bad (many times worse) than physical.

There are many things on the list that I do agree CPS would just laugh at... but there is definitely abusive behavior there too.


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## momeg (Dec 4, 2006)

_I wish the family could see this thread and know their lives hang in the balance as a decision is made based on strangers on the internet say "Call CPS". yuck. I don't trust government agencies, at all. Its weird how many of you turn to the government to "help".[/QUOTE]_

Some other posters have mentioned (and I agree) that what is or is not considered abuse can be subjective. My yuppy friends consider co-sleeping and extended breastfeeding beyond infancy a form of abuse. My hippy friends feel CIO and allowing toddlers to watch TV abuse. I think they are all just a little too high up on their parental horses. I don't agree with a lot of parenting choices people make for their kids, but I would not bring the hellfire of Big Brother down on my family unless it was CLEARLY a dangerous situation.


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## luv_my_babes (Dec 8, 2008)

Personally, I don't think that many of these are CPS worthy. If there is physical abuse, then for sure, yes, call.

The food issues are not just common to these parents... I know MANY people who let their children live off of junk food/fast food. Sure, its not healthy, but its not against the law, and we should not push our beliefs onto others.


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## Murihiku (Oct 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momeg* 
_My yuppy friends consider co-sleeping and extended breastfeeding beyond infancy a form of abuse. My hippy friends feel CIO and allowing toddlers to watch TV abuse.
_
_
_
_
This is a really good point.

What would both these sets of friends say about pulling a child around by his hair?

That's the detail that's been haunting me._


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovingmommyhood* 
OP~ Maybe you could spend more time with the kids. Invite them over, take them to do fun things. That'd be an easy way to keep track of them without the disruption of CPS in their lives.

FWIW I saw in another thread that you & your child don't have a bed. That would be _majorly_ frowned upon by CPS... that doesn't make it wrong.

But physical abuse IS wrong. Period. Endangering your child's life by withholding asthma medication and refusing to use a legally-mandated car seat regularly is also wrong. Period. The food issues are minor. We all get that. But people seem to be using the fact that the PP included some minor issues and using that to justify doing nothing when these kids are actually being abused (physical abuse, physical endangerment, medical neglect). That some people wouldn't like that the OP doesn't have a bed does not mean it's okay for her ILs to drag their children around by the hair, hit them, drive them around without carseats, or withhold their necessary medications. It just doesn't. People here are really missing the forest for the trees.


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
If you don't like them - and you clearly don't, just leave them be. I do feel sorry for your dp who will have a hard time having a relationship with his sibling over this. It is his sister or brother or ? What does he think of all this?

And also, do the kids seem ok? They aren't so heavy that they are unable to walk/run/play? They hug their parents? They live a life that mainstream America would find acceptable?

boy, nothing like a little snark to be helpful. i'm SO sorry that her dp will have trouble having a relationship with his il's because of her.







i mean, that must be awful that he can't hang around with child-hair pulling il's because it upsets his wife.

i think the idea that because the kids hug their mom and dad that they aren't abused is a little absurd as well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
*But physical abuse IS wrong. Period. Endangering your child's life by withholding asthma medication and refusing to use a legally-mandated car seat regularly is also wrong. Period.* The food issues are minor. We all get that. But people seem to be using the fact that the PP included some minor issues and using that to justify doing nothing when these kids are actually being abused (physical abuse, physical endangerment, medical neglect). That some people wouldn't like that the OP doesn't have a bed does not mean it's okay for her ILs to drag their children around by the hair, hit them, drive them around without carseats, or withhold their necessary medications. It just doesn't. *People here are really missing the forest for the trees.*

bolding mine but i've got to say







:

i'd probably call, even if they just pay a visit and discuss that someone saw what they do and it's BAD parenting, could maybe wake them up. i almost called on the woman next door who's always screaming at her kids to shut the f--- up or she's going to f--- them up. but the kids are always clean and fed and dressed so i don't think in rural nevada that's going to fly as abuse.


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
But physical abuse IS wrong. Period. Endangering your child's life by withholding asthma medication and refusing to use a legally-mandated car seat regularly is also wrong. Period. The food issues are minor. We all get that. But people seem to be using the fact that the PP included some minor issues and using that to justify doing nothing when these kids are actually being abused (physical abuse, physical endangerment, medical neglect). That some people wouldn't like that the OP doesn't have a bed does not mean it's okay for her ILs to drag their children around by the hair, hit them, drive them around without carseats, or withhold their necessary medications. It just doesn't. People here are really missing the forest for the trees.

Because the OP mentioned so many nit picky things it seems like she is trying very hard to find fault with the parents. IMO it ruined her credibility on the subject. That's JMO so nobody jump on me please. Calling CPS is a HUGE deal and I hope she doesn't do it out of spite for her inlaws.


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## ilovebabies (Jun 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovingmommyhood* 
Because the OP mentioned so many nit picky things it seems like she is trying very hard to find fault with the parents. IMO it ruined her credibility on the subject. That's JMO so nobody jump on me please. Calling CPS is a HUGE deal and I hope she doesn't do it out of spite for her inlaws.

Yeah.... I think this is where my mind went when I read the op's post. I found it so nit picky and judgemental that I kind of questioned if some things were eggagerated and not quite what she made them appear to be in the post. I also feel like it ruined her credibility.


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## EVC (Jan 29, 2006)

I agree with a lot of what has been said here in terms of the majority of the issues--while I personally find them nasty--are in fact acceptable and practiced by a large number of people and certainly CPS wouldn't intervene.

Quote:

-he is often hit, slapped, screamed at, pulled around by his hair
This is horrible. And like a lot people here, my first thought was, yes, now THIS is CPS worthy.

But then I recalled a while back there was a discussion of Lisa Welchel's parenting book. Apparently one piece of advice she offers is, if your child doesn't want to hold your hand while crossing the street, that you say "I can either take you by the hand, or I can take you by the hair." The idea being that the child will choose the hand. However, I imagine if the child still refuses, her advice would be to follow through on the threat.

Now, this is in NO WAY supporting such a method. I haven't read the book and never plan to--the excerpts I've seen turned my stomach. However, I do wonder if there is section of the otherwise normal population that uses such tactics as a disciplinary tool. Of course, that doesn't make it right, but it also means that CPS likely won't see it as abusive, just as spanking isn't seen as abusive, just a discipline technique. Obviously one I disagree with vehemently, but not illegal in this country.

At any rate, they certainly do not parent the way I do, and I do wish there were someway to reach out to them, support them, and offer alternatives. Likely that is not possible. Neverthless, CPS might not be the right call either.

I think of all the things listed, likely the carseat issue is the only black and white one


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovingmommyhood* 
Because the OP mentioned so many nit picky things it seems like she is trying very hard to find fault with the parents. IMO it ruined her credibility on the subject. Calling CPS is a HUGE deal and I hope she doesn't do it out of spite for her inlaws.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovebabies* 
Yeah.... I think this is where my mind went when I read the op's post. I found it so nit picky and judgemental that I kind of questioned if some things were eggagerated and not quite what she made them appear to be in the post. I also feel like it ruined her credibility.

This is exactly what I think. Including things that are clearly not abuse makes the other items seem exaggerated.

I think there should be an extreme fine for filing a false CPS report - but I'm not sure how that would work, as you certainly don't want people to be afraid to file actual reports.

The fact that other friends and family members see the same things the OP does and don't find it to be a problem are also problematic. It just sounds a lot like the OP hates the ILs.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

In some states at least (VA is one of them) car seat or seatbelt violations are considered outside the juristiction of CPS. You are directed to report it to the police.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovingmommyhood* 
OP~ Maybe you could spend more time with the kids. Invite them over, take them to do fun things. That'd be an easy way to keep track of them without the disruption of CPS in their lives.

FWIW I saw in another thread that you & your child don't have a bed. That would be _majorly_ frowned upon by CPS... that doesn't make it wrong.

i was going to suggest the same thing-that you could have the kids over, get involved with them. cps would dismiss most of what youre complaining about, unfortunately, and the kids are going to be no better off b/c of it. it's beyond heartbreaking to me, that they are treated so horribly, but it's not criminal, except the carseat issue, and the physical abuse, and that's a maybe unless you've seen it happen alot, and there is evidence.









they will remember you in their lives as they grow up, if you spend quality time with them. you may make a huge impact on them that way, and you will know you are helping in a way that actually changes the situation FOR THEM, FOR THE BETTER. if you really want to help them, that's what i'd do.

good luck mama. what a sad sad situation for everyone right now.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

Most stuff you mentioned would not matter at all to CPS. While you and I might not agree with the diet and TV stuff, it is not child abuse.

The jumping out of the balcony, being left unsupervised, and running the lawnmower would be the only things that would be valid to any report. If you start mentioning the food and TV stuff, then CPS won't even listen to the rest of your complaint to hear the valid stuff.

And on the being abused in a fosterhome..it is true. Statistically, children are far more likely to be abused in a fosterhome than at home. Sure, there are good foster homes out there, but many more bad. And the abuse tends to run much deeper as there are no parental bonds or love and overcrowding is an issue.


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## leosmommy (May 11, 2008)

I'm not going to worry about them anymore. They aren't my children and there are others in the family who are closer and could take responsibility and care for the children. For example, my MIL. The 3 1/2 y/o begs to stay overnight with her every night, and gets to do that about 2-3 times a week. He sees her as a mother...he was with her more than his own mom for the first year of his life...his own mother neglected him and ignored him, so MIL stepped in and cared for him (even bought all the formula and diapers and clothes for him). She would call CPS, except her husband (my FIL) is very controlling and abusive and I'm sure she's scared of what he'd do if he found out she called. Maybe she'll soon step in and the children will live with her again. I'll admit that I'm afraid of him, too. My DH works a lot and DS and I are home alone almost every evening until midnight.

I know I seem nit picky, but I am truly worried for these kids. As far as the medicine goes...it is free. They have government insurance and pay nothing for any medications, treatments, or doctor visits. The stuff I said is not a sometimes thing, it's everyday. I'm sure both kids are severely malnourished...anemic, vitamin deficienies, low albumin. They don't ever look or act healthy. The 9 month old (who is almost the same age as our DS) is very behind in her development. Doesn't sit up yet, doesn't crawl, no teeth, doesn't self feed at all, she can't even roll over with any consistency. The 3 1/2 year old is very skittish/shy/anxious/depressed (depending on whatever situation he's in). And there are many unexplained injuries...cuts, bruises, I've even seen "fingerprint bruises" on his arms. I know what it's like to be abused...my mother did it to us when we were young. Hit us, spit on us, kicked, slapped, screamed at, put down, etc.

We have mentioned it to them MANY times that they need to shape up or they could be in trouble with the law, their children are suffering, etc. They say they don't care, they know the local cops so it's okay that their kids aren't in carseats

And yes, we do sleep on the floor. My DH and others in his family have had problems with dust mite reactions all of their lives, so on recommendation of our doctor and also our chiropractor, we got rid of our mattress and box spring, as they are the places that harbor most of the dust mites in the home. It also is much safer for our DS since he is very active in his sleep, this is another reason why our doctor approves of us sleeping on a pallet on the floor.

I am not saying that I am perfect, and I acknowledge that many of the things my ILs do are in "the norm", but that does not make it okay. But I simply posted this thread to ask advice, not to have my own parenting decisions criticized. I married into this mess and I wish we could move far away and not have to hear about it. I think I'm going to stop coming to MDC because this whole mess and how I'm being personally attacked is very upsetting.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Um.... You didn't see the rest of us posting to say yes, DO call about the lack of feeding and the hitting/ hair-pulling?


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## BunnySlippers (Oct 30, 2007)

I would call, some of those things listed are pretty scary


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leosmommy* 
I know I seem nit picky, but I am truly worried for these kids. As far as the medicine goes...it is free. They have government insurance and pay nothing for any medications, treatments, or doctor visits. The stuff I said is not a sometimes thing, it's everyday. I'm sure both kids are severely malnourished...anemic, vitamin deficienies, low albumin. They don't ever look or act healthy. The 9 month old (who is almost the same age as our DS) is very behind in her development. Doesn't sit up yet, doesn't crawl, no teeth, doesn't self feed at all, she can't even roll over with any consistency. The 3 1/2 year old is very skittish/shy/anxious/depressed (depending on whatever situation he's in). And there are many unexplained injuries...cuts, bruises, I've even seen "fingerprint bruises" on his arms. I know what it's like to be abused...my mother did it to us when we were young. Hit us, spit on us, kicked, slapped, screamed at, put down, etc.

Please call CPS! These children need your help! It doesn't sound like anyone else in your family is going to call CPS, so it's up to you....

Sorry so many people here are giving you such a hard time about this. I think it's good that you posted to ask advice about this heartbreaking situation and that you want to help your niece and nephew. Some of us here are on your side!


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leosmommy* 
I know I seem nit picky, but I am truly worried for these kids. As far as the medicine goes...it is free. They have government insurance and pay nothing for any medications, treatments, or doctor visits. The stuff I said is not a sometimes thing, it's everyday. I'm sure both kids are severely malnourished...anemic, vitamin deficienies, low albumin. They don't ever look or act healthy. The 9 month old (who is almost the same age as our DS) is very behind in her development. Doesn't sit up yet, doesn't crawl, no teeth, doesn't self feed at all, she can't even roll over with any consistency. The 3 1/2 year old is very skittish/shy/anxious/depressed (depending on whatever situation he's in). And there are many unexplained injuries...cuts, bruises, I've even seen "fingerprint bruises" on his arms. I know what it's like to be abused...my mother did it to us when we were young. Hit us, spit on us, kicked, slapped, screamed at, put down, etc.

I think if you had included this paragraph in your opening post, you'd have gotten _much, much_ different responses. Your first post sounds nit-picky, this one does not. I think many of us, myself included, probably just couldn't grasp the gravity is the situation without this added information.

So yes, definitely call!


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## SquishyBuggles (Dec 19, 2008)

I don't see how you're being personally attacked. You should definitely call if things are that bad with the kids. Just don't mention the things like feeding a baby table food. Stick to the actual abuse/neglect.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I am tentatively returning this thread. Some posts have been removed. I am sorry it's taken so long to return it.

Please post on topic and please be mindful of the varying opinions of your co-members.

Thank you for your patience.

Allgirls


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## Erin082 (Jan 25, 2009)

The hitting, bathing alone, injuries, car seats, etc . . . would deeply concern me. My ILs are not so great either They BEAT their children till they bruise. They started when they were infants. Their house is FILTHY FILTHY FILTHY ( feces on the walls, etc) and the kids are never clean and often sick. BIL would often drink while driving them aroundI've oh- so tempted to call cps myself, but much of the things I would report, only family could know . . . it would come back on me. I struggled with this and my guilt was great. Until BiL spent one saturday drinking at this beachside bar with the kids . . . apparently, sometime around midnight, he was in the bar and the kids ( youngest 7 oldest 10) were in the water alone. Someone called the police. He was arrested, and cps opened an investigation. Well . . . the charges were dropped, and CPS did NOTHING . . . its sad, but I'm not sure anyone will take these things seriously, until someone gets very hurt. Its a shame, but thats my experience with things . . .


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazydiamond* 
I think if you had included this paragraph in your opening post, you'd have gotten _much, much_ different responses. Your first post sounds nit-picky, this one does not. I think many of us, myself included, probably just couldn't grasp the gravity is the situation without this added information.


I agree.


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## candipooh (Jun 22, 2004)

People can play the "what if" game all night long. But with all of these things added up I personally would call CPS.


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## homebirthing (Nov 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leosmommy* 
*I'm not going to worry about them anymore.* They aren't my children and there are others in the family who are closer and could take responsibility and care for the children. For example, my MIL. The 3 1/2 y/o begs to stay overnight with her every night, and gets to do that about 2-3 times a week. He sees her as a mother...he was with her more than his own mom for the first year of his life...his own mother neglected him and ignored him, so MIL stepped in and cared for him (even bought all the formula and diapers and clothes for him). She would call CPS, except her husband (my FIL) is very controlling and abusive and I'm sure she's scared of what he'd do if he found out she called. Maybe she'll soon step in and the children will live with her again. I'll admit that I'm afraid of him, too. My DH works a lot and DS and I are home alone almost every evening until midnight.

I know I seem nit picky, but *I am truly worried for these kids.* As far as the medicine goes...it is free. They have government insurance and pay nothing for any medications, treatments, or doctor visits. The stuff I said is not a sometimes thing, it's everyday. I'm sure both kids are severely malnourished...anemic, vitamin deficienies, low albumin. They don't ever look or act healthy. The 9 month old (who is almost the same age as our DS) is very behind in her development. Doesn't sit up yet, doesn't crawl, no teeth, doesn't self feed at all, she can't even roll over with any consistency. The 3 1/2 year old is very skittish/shy/anxious/depressed (depending on whatever situation he's in). And there are many unexplained injuries...cuts, bruises, I've even seen "fingerprint bruises" on his arms. I know what it's like to be abused...my mother did it to us when we were young. Hit us, spit on us, kicked, slapped, screamed at, put down, etc.

We have mentioned it to them MANY times that they need to shape up or they could be in trouble with the law, their children are suffering, etc. They say they don't care, they know the local cops so it's okay that their kids aren't in carseats

And yes, we do sleep on the floor. My DH and others in his family have had problems with dust mite reactions all of their lives, so on recommendation of our doctor and also our chiropractor, we got rid of our mattress and box spring, as they are the places that harbor most of the dust mites in the home. It also is much safer for our DS since he is very active in his sleep, this is another reason why our doctor approves of us sleeping on a pallet on the floor.

I am not saying that I am perfect, and I acknowledge that many of the things my ILs do are in "the norm", but that does not make it okay. But I simply posted this thread to ask advice, not to have my own parenting decisions criticized. I married into this mess and I wish we could move far away and not have to hear about it. I think I'm going to stop coming to MDC because this whole mess and how I'm being personally attacked is very upsetting.

If you are upset because you are feeling attacked, I am sorry. Please don't want to move far away...because if you want to do that, imagine the ones who are living through it, not just bearing witness.

You have the opportunity to do something. It will be scary and hard and maybe even plain awful, but you have the power to do it. You can be the voice for these innocent children. They have no voice, and they have no power. They will be raised in a cruel place, with cruel people.

Please please please do something. There is a tiny baby involved. Please act. They are children. You can be their strength. You can't choose not to care or worry about them. They need you.

Please call.


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## leosmommy (May 11, 2008)

I am going to call tomorrow while I'm at school on my lunch break. Even though we have broken all ties/communications with my ILs in the past few weeks (due to many reasons, mostly them calling us out for our AP and saying we are harming DS with CLW, delaying solids, co-sleeping







) I have just learned that SIL is 4 months pregnant...they are already calling it "mistake #3"







:

I'll remain anonymous. DH said he "doesn't want to know/hear about it if I do call" so that he won't have to lie to his mom if she calls and asks him if I'm the one who called CPS. He'll just say "I don't know what my DW does when I'm not with her". He doesn't want to be caught in the crossfire. I understand that.









Thank you everyone for giving me the courage to do this!


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## candipooh (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leosmommy* 
I am going to call tomorrow while I'm at school on my lunch break. Even though we have broken all ties/communications with my ILs in the past few weeks (due to many reasons, mostly them calling us out for our AP and saying we are harming DS with CLW, delaying solids, co-sleeping







) I have just learned that SIL is 4 months pregnant...they are already calling it "mistake #3"







:

I'll remain anonymous. DH said he "doesn't want to know/hear about it if I do call" so that he won't have to lie to his mom if she calls and asks him if I'm the one who called CPS. He'll just say "I don't know what my DW does when I'm not with her". He doesn't want to be caught in the crossfire. I understand that.









Thank you everyone for giving me the courage to do this!









s


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I'm glad you're calling. It sounds like those children will owe you their lives. You might have said this already (I didn't read all 6 pages), but is there any way you guys can take them?


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leosmommy* 
*I think I'm going to stop coming to MDC because this whole mess and how I'm being personally attacked is very upsetting.*

i wonder when people are going to learn a little compassion and a little less judgment in the hopes that this type of thing doesn't keep happening.

to the op, i absolutely think you are doing the right thing by calling. i sure hope our society isn't becoming the type that will watch these types of behaviours and write it off as "normal" because it's not and it shouldn't be.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leosmommy* 
I am going to call tomorrow while I'm at school on my lunch break.

Thank you. You've posted enough things that I hope they get some help. It takes courage to step up like this.


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## MCR (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leosmommy* 
I am going to call tomorrow while I'm at school on my lunch break. Even though we have broken all ties/communications with my ILs in the past few weeks (due to many reasons, mostly them calling us out for our AP and saying we are harming DS with CLW, delaying solids, co-sleeping







) I have just learned that SIL is 4 months pregnant...they are already calling it "mistake #3"







:

I'll remain anonymous. DH said he "doesn't want to know/hear about it if I do call" so that he won't have to lie to his mom if she calls and asks him if I'm the one who called CPS. He'll just say "I don't know what my DW does when I'm not with her". He doesn't want to be caught in the crossfire. I understand that.









Thank you everyone for giving me the courage to do this!

Good for you, if nothing else maybe it'll be a kick the pants and they'll be more carefull with the kids and give the meds they should.


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## 2pinks (Dec 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCR* 
Good for you, if nothing else maybe it'll be a kick the pants and they'll be more carefull with the kids and give the meds they should.










I agree. Maybe if they realize that the state is involved, it will be a wake-up call for them. Hopefully at the very least they will have to have some sort of mandated parenting classes, although I'm not sure what those entail.

I personally think you are making the right decision. The hitting/slapping/scolding for accidents/no meds even though they have ins that could get them for free, etc are red flags for me personally.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Good for you. You're doing the right thing.


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## leosmommy (May 11, 2008)

I called and gave a report. I asked to remain confidential but not anonymous.

We aren't in a position to take these kids in...in a few years, yes, but not right now.

CPS said they'd pass the info on, then go from there. Probably make a visit and try and educate the parents a little.

Hopefully things will get better for them







:


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leosmommy* 
I'm sure both kids are severely malnourished...anemic, vitamin deficienies, low albumin. They don't ever look or act healthy. The 9 month old (who is almost the same age as our DS) is very behind in her development. *Doesn't sit up yet, doesn't crawl, no teeth, doesn't self feed at all, she can't even roll over with any consistency.*

Not trying to make you feel bad but I wanted to point out that a nine month old w/o teeth is not bizarre, bad, or a sign of being behind in development. My dentist has told me several times that the later my kids get teeth the _better_. Just wanted you to be informed of that.


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## weliveintheforest (Sep 3, 2005)

to you leosmommy, I think you did the right thing. I wouldn't have been able to stand by and do nothing either. Try not to take it personally when people react harshly, I think CPS threads get tense pretty easily at the best of times.


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## GoddessKristie (Oct 31, 2006)

I have a very good friend who grew up in a very abusive home (physically, emotionally and verbally) and we have talked at length about how CPS would have changed her life. It was her opinion that she is glad that CPS was never involved. She sounds like she had a terrible experience and it's affected the rest of her life, but she would rather have been abused by people she loved than been sent to live with strangers who could have done much worse.
If they know that CPS is watching them it's likely the physical abuse will stop, but that does nothing for the food or verbal/emotional abuse. It may even increase those.
I hope you find peace with your decision and that you stay current on the situation.


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

Wait, do you live with these people?


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## Channelle (May 14, 2008)

Late to this thread, but wanted to say good for you. If any physical abuse is even suspected, it is your DUTY to call and try to help those kids. I work in social work, and I know if CPS finds out someone knew children were being abused and didn't report it, that person can get in trouble for not reporting their suspicions.

I was raised in an abusive home, and then a part of the foster care system, and would have hands down rather be in a foster home than in an abusive home. Even being separated from my siblings. No child should be abused. Even if these children don't get taken from their parents, it can very likely be the kick in the arse the parents need to correct their ways (even a little bit). They will know there is someone out there that won't let them do wrong, they'll be on their toes, those children will benefit from it.


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## candipooh (Jun 22, 2004)

Any update?


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## leosmommy (May 11, 2008)

no update. we don't live with them, and don't talk to them anymore. haven't heard anything from MIL about them recently.


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## neveryoumindthere (Mar 21, 2003)

how does ur dh feel about what's going on? He must be upset at not having any contact with his siblings








I hope those kids (and parents) get the help they need







It's hard calling CPS. I only ever did once and it was soo hard to do. But like some other posters, I was that abused child who wished someone would call and I could be taken somewhere safe.


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## boogiebearlove (Jul 10, 2008)

I'm glad someone gave the OP some constructive and helpful advice in this situation! I'm late to the thread, but this was a very well laid out response with the best of intentions.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sierra* 
People have done a good job of helping you determine what is "CPS appropriate." I too would report the bolded information. If you can, try to remember some specific examples with dates or other details that will help the person taking the report.

As a foster mom (in a loving home where we don't have abusive older children-- a common type of foster home, especially among foster parents who take very young children), the one that I personally would give the most "air time" in my report is that the child is not consistently being fed. A child going hungry (that is, not being offered any food) until at least 4pm (might be later if child wasn't dropped off at your house?) is severe neglect. I am really shocked someone here considered this within the "norm."

So, in summary, you would be reporting:
1. Neglect (child not being fed, inconsistent and completely inadequate supervision, medical neglect in administration of meds, rare use of car seats)
2. Physical abuse (I would focus primarily on the child being dragged around by the hair unless you have seen bruises and other marks from the hitting, though you could mention the hitting too)
3. Emotional abuse (constant screaming)

Keep your report organized.

Assuming you will report, and I think it is well warranted, the exact response will vary by state (if you are in the U.S.) and even county. However, it will probably look something like this:

1. The person who takes the report over the phone will gather the details and then (usually in coordination with a supervisor) make a determination of whether an investigation is warranted.

2. If it is not warranted, they may choose to simply record the report but do nothing, or in some cases they will send the family a letter to serve as a type of warning.

3. If they do screen the call "in" for investigation, they will complete some type of check on the welfare of the children.

4. During the check on the children, a few things can happen:

They may decide at that point that the situation doesn't fit the abuse and neglect laws of your area. In this case, they will close the case within some short time period (a few days, a couple of weeks, or something like that). The record will show the concern as "unfounded."
They may decide that the situation doesn't fit the abuse and neglect laws of your area, but that the child is at significant enough risk that the case should remain open for a little while so they can monitor the situation and provide referrals, etc.
They may determine that the case is one of abuse and neglect, and will provide services and support while the children remain in the home and they monitor how things are going.
They may determine the case is one of abuse and neglect, and that there is an immediate danger to the children should they remain in the home. This may end up being very short-term. There are some kids who come into care for just a weekend-long period while the most immediate concerns get sorted out. Other times, kids remain in foster care for a longer period, but statistically, the majority return home within 6 months or less, and the vast, vast majority are returned by the one year mark. Meanwhile, the parents will receive services to support improvement in the areas of concern and will have visitations with the kids (#, length, and degree of supervision if any is determined by regional standards and the specifics of the case). If children are removed from a home, relative/kinship placements by law must be considered before "standard" foster care placements, though if the child is removed quickly, the child may go to a "standard" placement until a relative background check is completed.
It varies from area to area, but statistically, most calls to CPS do not result in even a temporary removal of children from their homes. The idea that a CPS call automatically means foster care is a misnomer. I've had kids come into my care who literally spent years prior in *horrendously* abusive or neglectful situations while multiple calls were made but didn't result in removal until finally during an investigation, something changed.

I don't know why it is important for you to ask yourself what your goal is in calling. The fact is, what you are describing is abuse and neglect, and the state will determine how bad it is and what that means for the future. You really have nothing to do with that. Most wrongful reports don't result in actions against the family, despite all the stuff on the internet from folks claiming their children are wrongfully in care (I know there are some folks honestly saying this, and I grieve for them, but some of the parents of foster kids I've had in my home were on the internet saying similar things when in fact they really were abusing and neglecting their children to the point that the child was very, very much in danger...knowing how often that has been true, I pay little mind to those stories).

Sounds like the OP feels she needs to report not based on one thing alone, but a collection of things...the bigger picture. I think there are enough very serious safety issues in her post that override any concern that she might be reporting for feeding alone. Clearly she is not.


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