# disturbing billboard



## hubris (Mar 8, 2003)

(I'm hoping I can post this, since the moratorium is over)

Driving down I-64/95 through downtown Richmond, VA today, and I look up and see this billboard sponsored by PFOX (Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays). Although their slogan seems to be "tolerance for all," I was bothered by the much larger text, "change is possible" and by the similarity of the group's acronym to PFLAG.

My initial reaction was that this group is a sham, a facetious "support network" whose actual goal is to "cure" homosexuals. Am I being too cynical? I used to live in Norfolk, right next door to Virginia Beach, home of Pat Robertson, Regent University, and the Christian Broadcast Network - none of them exactly big fans of homosexuality. While living there I saw newspaper ads for religious groups claiming to cure gays and a church community rented public school space in our neighborhood because they wanted to convert the gays and Jews there (Ghent, Norfolk is known for having large populations of both groups). That was actually their stated goal. Also in VA, we have the Rev. Jerry Falwell and his Liberty University. You may remember his condemation of the purple, triangle-headed, purse-toting Tinky Winky the Teletubby. So VA is not exactly gay-friendly...it's understandable that I'm suspicious of this group, right?

I checked out their site. Their stated purpose is to defend the rights of ex-gays and to promote tolerance for their choices. If that's the case, why have the largest print on the billboard be "change is possible"? Are we advocating for change or for tolerance? My gut feeling is that the billboard is ultimately anti-gay, despite the fact that they have chosen language that isn't specifically anti-gay. Does that make sense?

Anyway, I'm not sure what I'm saying here any more. I'm just feeling very very squirmy over this billboard, and I hope it's ok for me to bring this issue here.


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## Ravin (Mar 19, 2002)

It could be that they're taking the standpoint that people shouldn't condemn ex-gays because change is possible and therefore they really aren't gay any more and people should be tolerant of this.

Which addresses the mentality that homosexuality is an inborne trait and that anyone claiming to be "ex-gay" is kidding himself about being straight or else wasn't really gay to begin with. Much the same mentality often labels bisexuals as fence-sitters. Of course that sort of viewpoint often comes from people who on the other hand have their whole way of life and right to live it called into question by the "ex-gay" convert types.

I would be irritated by it, but they're not violating any hate crimes laws or anything.


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## KellyB (Jun 15, 2006)

Perplexing...I must say...
I don't get it...
P=parents
F=friends
O=of?
X= Ex-gays???
So, that's the name of the group..PFOX...but the billboard adds: and gays..
Hmm??? Does that mean only partially converted gays?
"tolerence for all"...???
While we convert you?
How stupid do these folks think people are?


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

I agree with your initial reaction, Jess. I don't think you're being cynical at all.
I feel for any GBLTQ person who has to see that billboard. It screams "We Hate Gays." But, blatent homophobia isn't so PC anymore. They have to be a bit less obvious.


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## Hey Mama! (Dec 27, 2003)

I would have thought the same thing, and in fact did as i looked at the billboard before reading the rest of your post.


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## plum (Mar 7, 2003)

i think it's sad. 'hey, you, you can get better, you know! you don't have to be like that anymore!'


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## meco (Mar 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *plum*
i think it's sad. 'hey, you, you can get better, you know! you don't have to be like that anymore!'

:LOL

This reminds me of the poster with the sig about a grandma making a homosexual for someone--I wish I could quote it, but I die laughing every time I see it.

You don't "HAVE" to be like that anymore--too funny!









I agree it is a sad billboard, and a SAD day when we are tying to "cure" them. Apparently big brother thinks EVERYTHING can be cured!! Just VAX EM! That might be the answer.


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

I also find that to be offensive and insulting. What in the world is an "ex-gay"? Does that mean I can be an ex-caucasian if I just decide I don't want to be white anymore?
It makes it sound as though homosexuality is a choice, and as a very dear (departed







: ) friend of mine once said, "yeah, right, like I'd *choose* to be part of one of the most hated groups in the Southern US"


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## splendid (Jul 18, 2004)

I think this is their mission statement

And to the question what is an ex-gay they've thought of an answer apparently...









I'm going to be going to Richmond on Monday for the state fair so I'll be keeping an eye out for the sign....

"ex-gay"...it just sounds wrong







:, the word itself that is not for those who no longer consider themselves homosexual.

I'm going to stop before I put my foot in my mouth.


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## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

I am totally confused by the billboard, but mostly offended.

So, about this whole "ex-gay" thing. When a gay person comes out does that make them "ex-straight"???

I don't get it!!!


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## splendid (Jul 18, 2004)

Alright I was trolling through their site. And I'm really beginning (okay now fully believe) it is an anti-gay site, but dressed up as a support group for those who are ex-gay (again







: ). The wording just seems to shout out end "gay rights".

At the moment I am hung up on the whole ex-gays want the same rights as the gay community. Did I miss something. If you are "ex-gay" (I'm assuming this also means you are not bi-sexual) doesn't that make ou heterosexual?


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

Splendid - OMG! I went to that website... It is beyond words how abhorrent I find it to be. Like they can cure their loved ones of being gay. I think I'm gonna be sick.









they "educate the public on sexual orientation"
and "Each year, thousands of men and women with same sex attractions make the personal decision to leave homosexuality through gender affirming programs, including secular therapy and/or faith based ministries."

and how they turn it all around, saying that laws against hatred and bigotry are actually hostile and discriminatory of "ex-gays" (whatever that means)

Quote:

PFOX is not an anti-gay organization - rather, we are a pro-ex-gay organization.
this is all rather disturbing


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

uke That's my reaction to the billboard and their hateful website.







:


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## wemoon (Aug 31, 2002)

Ick. I looked at the billboard before I read the responses, and I definitely thought that they were anti-gay and were trying to *cure* those who are gay. Totally sick and twisted.


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

in my opinion, this is an anti-gay group. Blah.

have ya'll seen the movie "But I'm a Cheerleader!" a very good movie, hilarious and pointed about "ex-gays."


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## DarkHorseMama (Mar 8, 2003)

From their website:

Quote:

"All major mental health organizations have proclaimed the right to self-determination. This includes seeking counseling to overcome unwanted same-sex attractions," Griggs said. "Furthermore, there is no credible evidence that anybody is 'born gay' and left without a choice. *We put up this billboard so that people will know the truth - that you don't have to be homosexual if you don't want to be*."
That's it in a nutshell. You don't have to be homosexual. It's obviously a choice they can "cure" one of....like a shameful venereal disease.


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## wemoon (Aug 31, 2002)

Ugh! I'll restate what I said previously: This organization is SICK AND TWISTED!


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

I was going to quote this "We put up this billboard so that people will know the truth - that you don't have to be homosexual if you don't want to be." but you beat me to it!

Yeesh! How sick.


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## TexasSuz (Mar 4, 2002)

I disagree with all of you because I have worked with groups like this one thought the organization of Exodus International. They are loving, affirming groups that offer a way out for many that struggle with an unwanted attraction to the same gender. People ought to have choices and groups like these offer choices. I know many ex-gays that are now married to opposite gender partners or chose to live in celibacy.

There is no proof that same sex attraction is always in-born. Many of these people have suffered years of sexual abuse that led to confusion in their sexual identity. One man I know was abused at age 8 by another man and could not tell anyone (it was the 1950s). He grew up thinking that he must be this way because that helped him deal with the guilt and shame of the abuse. Exodus offered him a way to deal with these feelings and recover from his abuse. He no longer lives a gay lifestyle (which he was miserable in anyway).

I could go on with story after story with people who wanted to come out of the homosexual lifestyle and did so succesfully. Not every same sex attraction is "unwanted" but choices and help need to be made available for those for whom the attraction is unwanted. I see nothing hateful and twisted about this. Like I said, I know these people, their stories and their struggles. It is not for everyone but should be available for those who want it.

If you disagree that is fine - don't want to fight about it. Just thought you should know that there is another side to it all. Tolerance for ALL and choices for all.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Wow. Are you sure this is for real? I mean, it totally looks like a joke. Wow.







:


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

Texassuz, i hear you saying that in your experience these groups aren't hateful. I think that most if not all gay folks go through intense experiences before they reach a point of beng able to be who they are. The message that it is not ok to be gay is EVERYWHERE. that is, EVERYWHERE. Even here in San Franciso, one of if not THE queerest city in teh us of a. So seeing something like this can be a slap in the face to someone who, say, lived in the closet for twenty years, miserable and unhappy, and had to struggle like heck to come out. Maybe for a minority of gay folks who are desperate to conform to the heteronormative culture we live in, this stuff doesn't feel hateful. but in my experience, the vast majority of queers see this stuff as a direct, hateful attack.

And, of course, from my perspective nobody chooses to be gay. We are who we are.

I mean, hey, when did you decide to be straight? Really, when?

and I really can't recomend "But I'm a Cheerleader" enough. It is so great.


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## DandelionBouquet (Apr 27, 2004)

I agree with TexasSuz. Change is obviously possible for some gays because some are happily married to the opposite sex and glad to have left their former lifestyle.


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

lotsa queer folks passing as straight.

why?

Well, for starters, sometimes people GET KILLED just because they're gay. Not so hard to figure out why some people would be willing to quash parts of themselves and deny their sexuality.

When did you (general, not specific, you) decide to become straight? Do you think counseling could help you leave the heterosexual lifestyle, with all of it's patriarchy and other forms of depravity, behind? If you are straight, what would it take for you to have a homosexual relationship? would you snuggle up with someone of your same/similar gender if you thought you might get killed otherwise? what if your family refused to speak to you unless you turned queer?

i could go on, but I'm sure y'all get my point and it's gettin late here in **** central.


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

I can see it two ways:

One way is that it kind of insinuates that gay people need some sort of salvation from their sexual pref's - which is obviously very offensive & couldn't be more obnoxious...

The other way is that someone who has lived years as a homosexual, then found an attraction for someone of the opposite sex (but still have the social circle & scene of a gay person) could be tough on someone to make that change. Kind of like living with a secret. Or having to "come out" twice. He/she may feel like they'd lose friends, be misunderstood, etc. Probably not the attitude or fear of many, but I can see how someone who is very self-conscious or has friends who only hang out with gay friends (yes this happens) could feel "trapped" within a given scene. So, they offer an "it's okay" to make them feel more self-accepting. Does that make any sense?? Is that where you're coming from Texassuz & Dandelion?

My reaction to the billboard is that it's offensive - but I can stretch & kind of make sense of their *intention*. Still baffles me that a person's sexual preference is such a big deal in this society! Weird.


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

That's really, really confusing to me. My first reaction is disgust. The headline on the billboard just screams "offensive" to me. But the tag line underneath sort of contradicts the message of the billboard. I really don't get it.


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## TexasSuz (Mar 4, 2002)

The message that my "ex-gay" friends tell me that they see everywhere is that 1) if you have a same sex attraction then you ARE homosexual (born that way), 2) you should give in to that attraction and live it, and 3) you should be happy and proud in that lifestyle. They often feel that they have no choice and end up living a life that they are unhappy with. You could argue whether or not they are gay in the first place but that can not be proven medically anyway since there is no smoking gun "gay gene" to prove the genetic theory.

I feel that some same sex attraction can develop as a result of life's situations, like sexual abuse and others. I have seen this to be the case in many of my friends and family members. They don't choose to be gay or straight they just develop with attractions that are often unwanted/undesired by them. I feel that choices and compassion should be offered to this group of people. Many have years of deep pain to deal with - I have cried with them and held them.

I have friends/family members that are gay and some that are ex-gay. I don't treat them any different. But no one should feel forced to live a life that they are unhappy in and organizations like Exodus are the only ones offering people options. I am thankful that they do.

Thanks everyone for allowing me to express my view here. I hope I have done so in a respectful and honoring way. This issue is very close to my heart...


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## wemoon (Aug 31, 2002)

While maybe an organization such as this could prove to be useful to some people if they desire the counseling, I think the billboard is very, very wrong. For me it falls right in line with other offensive behavior or lifestyle changing billboards, like abortion ones, Christian ones etc etc. I just wish that people could leave one another alone, if someone doesn't want to be gay, it seems they would just not be gay or seek out counseling to help??? Like if I wanted to be Christian, I would just be Christian and if I wanted help in being Christian I would seek it out... right?


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

I believe that people have a choice.... IF they're bisexual. Perhaps some of these "ex-gays" are actually bisexual, and have decided to ignore that part of themselves that's attracted to the same sex. I think there are more bisexual people than strictly homosexual or strictly heterosexual.
Okay, that's me giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Honestly, my impression is that many "ex-gays" are just re-closeting themselves. They can't be happy being their gay selves because it goes against: their upbringing, religious beliefs, family's acceptance of them, employers acceptance of them, society (pick any/all). So, they try to make themselves pass as straight. That they're more accepted into mainstream society if they're straight just further exacerbates their self-hatred. And, they're more willing to fight against equal rights for the GBLTQ community because they can't stand that some people are able to be both happy and gay, when it eluded them.

I think the majority of the "ex-gays" groups are liars, trying to "prove" that homosexuality couldn't possibly be natural. God and/or nature can't possibly create homosexuals, so it MUST be a choice. We'll put a few pretty faces on billboards, call them "ex-gays", and shout out to the world that homosexuality is a state of mind - and you can change your mind. Then they just accuse homosexuals of causing their own problems by choosing the gay lifestyle. And, so obviously they don't need any kind of civil rights - they can always choose to fall in love with and marry someone of the opposite sex. They're just being difficult.









Read the website. It's obviously an anti-gay organization. They're not interested in helping people come to terms with their sexualities. They're trying to push their anti-gay agenda, and using people to do so.


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## yoga (May 1, 2002)

I haven't visited the website, but I see where TexasSuz, et al are coming from. I have personally wondered about some homosexuals who were molested as kids, b/c that is such a traumatic event, who knows how the person would have been if it had never occurred. You just have to trust that how people are is how they want to be.

But, I get the whole "you're gay, just love it" issue. There are certain stereotypes of homosexuality and if you don't fit into them, you're self-hating. Homosexuals tell that to each other, sometimes.

Same as with any other group, really. The whole "you're either with us or against us" mentality. It bites.

As far as the billboard, I can see where it would NOT be offensive (not knowing the background of PFOX), b/c there is a stigma against ex-homosexuals. The fact is, you can't please everybody, so you better at least be pleasin' yourself.


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

Being gay is

*NOT

A

LIFESTYLE*

Burying your same-sex attraction does not make you ex-gay.

That site is a hate site and IMO the OP should put a disclaimer on her post.


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

i think it is a funny billboard. how can a gay person change? it would last two minutes in this town and people would deface it.


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

Errr, the OP wasn't advocating it or anything. Even said it was disturbing.

The logic is faulty. They're basically saying that being attracted to same-sex people isn't inborn because some people manage to act like they're attracted to the opposite sex? Errr, not flyin' sorry.

The site comes across as a justification for gay-conversion groups.

I wouldn't see any problem with a number of people who had once lived as 'gay' and decided they weren't forming a support group - no problem at all - my problem is the whole idea that they are "proving change is possible" - this means, to me, that there is a more sinister slant to it.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Well, I guess you (Texas suz) would refer to my sister as an "X-Gay." She was in a relationship with a woman for a few years. However, the relationship didn't work out - because _she was not and is not Gay_.

In my college psychology class our professor gave us a statistic of the percentage of people that "experiment" with the same sex. It was really high (anyone have that number?). Something like 85% or more of straight people experiment with the same sex at some point in their life. So, it's very clear to me that what you and that IMO hate organization are calling people X-Gays if they 1) Are straight yet have experimented with the same sex. 2) Are Gay and are going back into the closet either because of the way society treats them or because that organization (among others) filled them with shame and guilt.

You're either Gay or your not. Of course you could be bi-sexual but I'm trying to make a specific point here.

Why the need to "change" anyone anyway? Where's the acceptance? Where's the love and tolerance? I'm not seeing it.


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TexasSuz*
Thanks everyone for allowing me to express my view here. I hope I have done so in a respectful and honoring way. This issue is very close to my heart...

TexasSuz, i couldn't disagree more with you, But I want to acknowlege that you are being respectful in this dialogue, and i appreciate it.

LotusDebi- yep. I toally agree.


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## isleta (Nov 25, 2002)

That site is a hate site and IMO the OP should put a disclaimer on her post.[/QUOTE]

I agree that it is a hate site. In my paper Exodus had a full page ad and I was disturbed. Not only did it say that being gay is a choice but also inferred that boys raised in single mother homes tend to become more gay than two-parent homes









If my son is gay it is not because I am raising him alone and Ya know what I don't care if he is gay because I, unlike Exodus feel that it is just fine to be gay. I will love him regardless. I only hope that society will be more accepting one day.








Lotus Debi-ITA.


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## comet (Aug 22, 2002)

I kinda think that people who are convinced gays can change must have homosexual urges themselves, but they don't act on it. Since they quash their urges, they assume everyone can. They will never admit this. It's my pet theory, though.


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *comet*
I kinda think that people who are convinced gays can change must have homosexual urges themselves, but they don't act on it. Since they quash their urges, they assume everyone can. They will never admit this. It's my pet theory, though.

seems plausible to me. I also think that the most violent homophobes are often closet cases.

so, can we talk about the name of this group? Exodus? what does that make you think of? And what's the thinking behind choosing that as a name?


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

everyone that says that there is "no evidence that homosexuality is biological" is wrong.

_New research indicates that sexual orientation is at least partly physiological. Researcher Simon LeVay (1991) discovered this while studying sections of the hypothalamus taken from deceased heterosexual and homosexual people. ... [A] cell cluster [in the hypothalamus] was reliably larger in heterosexual men than in women and homosexual men. ... brain anatomy influences sexual orientation. Laura Allen and Roger Gorski (1992) offered a similar conclusion aftter discovering that a section of the fibers connecting right and left hemispheres is one-third larger in homosexual men than in heterosexual men.

The evidence suggests that genetic influence plays a role in sexual orientation (Hershberger, 1997; Whitam & others, 1993). One research team studied the twin brothers of homosexual men. Among their identical twin brothers, 52 percent were homosexual, as were 22 percent of fraternal twin brothers. In a follow-up group of homosexual women, a similar 48 percent of their identical twins were homosexual, as were 16 percent of their fraternal twins (Bailey & others, 1993). Moreover, with a single transplanted gene, scientists can now cause male fruit flies to display homosexual behavior (Zhang & Odenwald, 1995)._

~ Psychology: Sixth Edition, David G. Meyers, (c) 2001 by Worth Publishers, pp 445-6

sadie_sabot totally hit the nail on the head with her post.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Gay Teenager Series in The Washington Post

This kid is growing up gay inthe Bible Belt. The ex-gay "you can and should change" people are mentioned on pages 4-5.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Well, that billboard and the news article linked within the thread are very odd. I, personally, think a better focus should by *why* someone would want to 'overcome' homosexuality. But, although I don't think this is the true motivation behind the group, I would support an effort to promote tolerance for people who change what sex partner (s) they choose to be with.

That said, I must say that I really don't think equality and/or tolerance should depend on the issue of biology.


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TexasSuz*
...I could go on with story after story with people who wanted to come out of the homosexual lifestyle and did so succesfully...

Or we could talk about Michael Bussee, one of the attendees at the Exodus Summit Confrence (the founding conference of Exodus ministries) who later left his wife and child to be with another male Exodus staff member (also married.)

Or we could talk about a dear friend of mine who went through a program like this with his Baptist church, was married for 10 years to a woman, had two children, then left them to be with a man only to be thrown out of his oh-so-supportive church with the message that now he was going to rot in Hell for all eternity.

Or we could talk about how gay/lesbian teenagers are 3x more likely to attempt suicide.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TexasSuz*
...Tolerance for ALL and choices for all...

I'm not tolerant of groups that try to bully minorities into joining the majority. I'm not tolerant of groups that feed into the loathing and hatred that gay men and lesbian women feel for themselves. I'm not tolerant of groups whose mission is based on the belief that love is a sin.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Pugmadmama, as always.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)




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## DarkHorseMama (Mar 8, 2003)

This article was originally published in Spin magazine, June, 1996.

Queer and Loathing

Quote:

"Bussee recalls one victim (of Exodus' pressure) who wrote in his suicide note, 'God will forgive me for killing myself. But He will never forgive me for having another homosexual thought.'"


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaAllNatural*
She was in a relationship with a woman for a few years. However, the relationship didn't work out - because _she was not and is not Gay_.

In my college psychology class our professor gave us a statistic of the percentage of people that "experiment" with the same sex. It was really high

Yeah, the logic behind the whole "ex-gay" thing seems flawed. Like this: If I have never eaten a pickle in my life, and I taste my first one, does that make me a "pickle eater"? What if, upon that first taste, I say, Nope! Not for me! Would I then be an "ex pickle eater"?

What if I think one pickle wasn't enough of a representative sample -- maybe that one was just rotten -- so I taste another before I decide pickles are just not for me? At what point do I stop being "person who has decided she is not a pickle eater" and become "ex pickle eater"? And how much can we trust an organization with a big fat agenda about pickles to evaluate that point? If everybody in the world who's tried a pickle (or 2) and decided they didn't like it is claimed as an "ex pickle eater", that's a pretty high number.

Please tell me this metaphor is not as dumb as I now think it must be







:


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

:LOL I liked it!


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## pugmadmama (Dec 11, 2003)

Perfectly good (& slightly naughty) metaphor!

The whole thing really does have a kind of circular logic to it.

1. Teach people that an important part of them (their sexuality) is ugly to God.
2. Watch them develop deep self-hatred and make life choices consistant with that.
3. Offer to help erase that self-hatred by removing the part of them that is ugly to God.

I want to offer a link to Metropolitan Community Church. I have friends that are members of this church and they all say it was such a relief to find a place where they could be accepted as gay/lesbian _and_ Christian.


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## kama'aina mama (Nov 19, 2001)

I have often considered being an ex-pickle eater. But I just can't seem to give up the pickle.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Kama! :LOL See, grlndocs, we all liked it!


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

I enjoy pickles and bananas.









But seriously.

I have a family member in my extended family who has been a fundamentalist Xtian, Rush Limbaugh lover for as long as I have known him. 20 yrs and 4 children later, late last yr, he came out to his wife as gay. Their sex life has always been less than stellar and she (being a virgin until her wedding day) thought there was something wrong with her. He let her believe this. It is a very ugly situation and I do not know how it is all going to turn out. He has just agreed to going to their pastor(!) for counseling. He refuses to go to a secular therapist, so far.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Hmmm, I guess I just must live in a different country than the people in this group.

Exactly where do they live that Friends & Family have to "deal with" their loved ones becomming "ex-gay." I guess it must be a place where only gays have the right to marraige, easy custody arrangements, tax benifits and the like. Right? I guess where they live gays are the majority and to become ex-gay they have to overcome both religous and societal norms. No wonder their families need so much support! That must be just about every parents worst nightmare, "I'm sorry mom & mom (or dad & dad, mom & dad ???) but I can't live the lie anymore.... I'm HETEROSEXUAL."

When one group of a soceity obviously has a very strong grip on the long end of the stick I have to look askance if/when that group tries to present themselves as victims, as being excluded or dimenished in some way. To me, it is about as authentic as the white supremicist sites who want to "honor diversity".


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Oh, it was naughty too! I never even thought of that! Double points for me! :LOL


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

TiredX2


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Yuck. To think you can "change" folks in such a way is harmful both for them and society. Also, who would want to marry such a person? Wouldn't you always have a nagging in the back of your head that maybe you don't really turn your spouse on? When I'm in bed with the hubby, I know power. I know that he relishes me and our sex. Could you or should you settle for less in a marriage?


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