# I just joined Feminists for Life



## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

'Cause I rock.

www.feministsforlife.com


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## daylily (Dec 1, 2001)

They look like an interesting group. As someone who experienced an unplanned pregnancy when I was in college, and did not chose to have an abortion, I would have appreciated knowing a group like this was out there.

The run-of-the-mill pro-life folks, with their screaming outside clinics and their little plastic fetuses made my blood run cold, and yet I couldn't warm up to some of the typical feminist pro-choice dogma.

But as for the rest of this thread







:


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

"The run-of-the-mill pro-life folks, with their screaming outside clinics and their little plastic fetuses made my blood run cold, "

I've met FFL people and they aren't like that at all. I don't think they even have plastic fetuses. They help college women find practical help so they can continue a pregnancy. There's this other group they work with called the Nurturing Network that provides moms with a lot too. I believe they even help with housing.


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## Els' 3 Ones (Nov 19, 2001)

I looked all thru that link and found not a word about IVF...............

Just what is their stance?


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## daylily (Dec 1, 2001)

El, maybe you should start a thread about the ethical considerations of IVF. I'm not trying to be pugnacious, but I read a post you wrote about it in another thread and it was interesting. It might make a good debate.


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## Els' 3 Ones (Nov 19, 2001)

I've been thinking about doing that, but I really think it belongs in all the abortion threads. KWIM?

There are many ppl who've used IVF and yet are anti-abortion, I think they must not realize what they too would lose if abortion becomes illegal.

This website is a good example. Covers rape, incest, disabled, medical, the whole nine yards. Yet, I found not a word about IVF. Why not?


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

www.all.org covers IVF. I believe.


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## jengi33 (Jan 7, 2002)

I've been ignoring this thread, because I thought it meant feminists for life (as in forever). Finally realized what the purpose was! LIFE! Thanks for posting the info, I will take some time to look it over closer. Recognizing your name from elsewhere I think helped me take a look!


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## Els' 3 Ones (Nov 19, 2001)

Thanks for the link, but that doesn't answer my question.


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## HoneymoonBaby (Mar 31, 2004)

Els, just for the record, I am vehemently opposed to IVF for the same reasons I am against abortion. Not all of us are the "hypocrites" you seem to think we are.


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## Els' 3 Ones (Nov 19, 2001)

I don't believe I have painted all anti-choicers as hypocrites. Just most. OP website sure is.

Definitely hypocritical in targeting only one segment of the population that would be devestated by making abortion illegal.

Why aren't you protesting in front of fertility clinics?


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

The OP website isn't hypocritical. You can't expect one group to cover every aspect of the pro-life agenda. This one's particular focus is reaching out to college aged women (most of whom are not doing IVF).

On the other hand, the American Life League www.all.org does take a stance on every aspect of the reproductive technologies. Because they cover so much stuff, they do less in each individual area. While they're nice to have around politically, I think that FFL does more in reaching individual people.


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## Super Pickle (Apr 29, 2002)

phathui5, thanks for inspiring me. I just joined too.


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## kama'aina mama (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5*
The OP website isn't hypocritical. You can't expect one group to cover every aspect of the pro-life agenda. This one's particular focus is reaching out to college aged women (most of whom are not doing IVF).

Actually I believe that most unrelated egg donors are college aged women... and more often than not college women.


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## Sarah (Nov 20, 2001)

I think that the majority of in vitro embryos are made for research, not infertility. Bit I don't know this, does anyone else know? I don't know if this is something that can even be tracked.

I do know that there are scientists who are working avoid the price and "problems" of having living egg donors (like those college girls) for their science projects.

It's easy, you just take the ovaries out of dead girls.

Remember, we are born (or not) with all of our eggs.

Where do you get dead girls? They are called "partial birth abortions" So not only can they take HER life... they can play around and then destroy the lives of HER unborn children too...

Sick huh?

Love Sarah


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## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

FFL is a fabulous organization for those of us who are pro-life (and therefore shunned by mainstream feminists, NOW, etc.) AND feminist (and therefore shunned by right-wing constituencies). I've belonged for years.

From FFL's mission statement: "refuse to choose between women and children." Hard to argue with that.

--Trish


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Sarah---

Citations please.


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## Sarah (Nov 20, 2001)

http://www.nrlc.org/news/2003/NRL07/aborted_mothers.htm
This article talks about some of the work being done to develop this market

These articles talk about the market which already exists in harvesting body parts from aborted children.
http://www.ashevilletribune.com/fetal_tissue.htm (this documentary contains a series of photos which are very disturbing- but they are in a section with lots of warnings, so you won't see them by accident... but if you dare, I think you should look.)

http://covenantnews.com/babyparts.htm

I'm sorry I can't really give you more on this, it is all brand new to me and I am reeling with the thought of it!

Love Sarah


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I'm sorry, but I am really skeptical (esp about #2 which says that planned parenthood clinics deliver live babies breathing and then drown them for parts). Just doesn't make logical sense.

Thanks for the links, though


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Well, at least they're consistent. Have always been crazy upon hearing of "pro-life" groups who believe in "exceptions" for rape and incest. At least this group is against all abortions, no exceptions.

Which is totally antithetical to *my* beliefs ... but again, at least it's consistent.


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## Sarah (Nov 20, 2001)

I'd like to know what does not make logical sense to you... not to argue, just to know your POV. As I said, this is all new to me and I'm trying to learn more about it myself. are you skeptical just because you don"t want to believe it>>> or because you know something that would disprove this?

i just read a book called "LIME FIVE" and it was very shocking for me>>> but after what i read< including stories of sexual abuse in abortion clinics>>> there is nothing about this that would cause me to doubt that it could happen.

Love Sarah


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## the sunshine (Jul 31, 2003)

Sexual abuse happens everywhere, it's hardly a by-product of abortion clinics.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

From the web site, I really like this:

"Sweeter even than to have had the joy of caring for children of my own
has it been to me to help bring about a better state of things for mothers generally, so their unborn little ones could not be willed away from them." -Susan B. Anthony

And this coffee mug...

Another humorless old biddy: Elizabeth Cady Stanton

If I ever manage to go back to college I'll have to take a women's history class. I wonder if they mention Susan B's and Elizabeth Cady Stanton's stance on abortion.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

I'd like to know what does not make logical sense to you... not to argue, just to know your POV. As I said, this is all new to me and I'm trying to learn more about it myself. are you skeptical just because you don"t want to believe it or because you know something that would disprove this?
I am skeptical about abortion clinics routinely delivering breathing, healthy babies and then drowning them (or discecting them still alive) because EVENTUALLY (and by that I mean very quickly) it would become public knowledge. Where would you find a doctor willing to risk not only their career, but their freedom, to purposely deliver a living child simply to kill it when their job is to kill the child before birth? I would have to see some pretty strong evidence to believe it and a "I saw it happen" doesn't cut it (why not get a picture, why not pick up the baby and call 911!?!?! I'd do it).


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## Super Pickle (Apr 29, 2002)

Tiredx2, are you familiar with the story of Jill Stanek, the nurse from "Christ" (sic) Hospital in Chicago? She went public with the dirt and faced a lot of persecution and eventually lost her job.

Journeymom, IKWYM. I am so grateful to those early life-affirming feminists who strove to ensure my right to vote my conscience and to obtain education so I can think through issues intelligently.

**edited b/c I felt I was starting to get catty. Sorry to anyone who may have read my pre-edited post. It's been a long day and i've been escaping to the computer. Gonna go deal with my problems now.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

But, it just makes no logical sense.

They are performing a proceedure to kill and then extract the baby. Why birth the baby and then kill it? There is no reason. So, why?

Maybe I'm just too trusting? Too logical? What?


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

Tiredx2, are you familiar with the story of Jill Stanek, the nurse from "Christ" (sic) Hospital in Chicago? She went public with the dirt and faced a lot of persecution and eventually lost her job.
I do, btw, consider it very different to birth a 21 week baby and allow it to die w/out intervention (what Jill Stanek alleged) and what the pp alleged (babies being drowned, cut up with breathing, 26+ weeks fully viable fetus...)


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## Leatherette (Mar 4, 2003)

Why is the Asheville Tribune breaking this "news", and not the New York Times? The other two sources of "news" are obviously slanted, from pro-life and religious writers.

It's like watching "The O'Reilly Factor" to find out what all Americans (ahem, I mean, the smart ones) think.

L.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

\m


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

You rock for sure, phathui5









Very cool.


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## mcimom (Jun 8, 2002)

You do rock! and now...so do I


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## kerikadi (Nov 22, 2001)

I joined about six months ago







Yes, you can be pro-woman and pro-life









Keri


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## Leonor (Dec 25, 2001)

I was reading the stories of the teenage girls that birth their babies and kill them and I'm in tears. I don't want to be part of the human race sometimes.


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