# What to do when you see someone being horrible to a child



## Incubator (May 11, 2006)

I have been dreading the day, because I know it will happen eventually, when I see someone in the grocery store doing something mean to a child. Especially hitting.
I know I would feel obligated to say something, but I'd have no idea what to say without getting angry, making the parent angry, and possibly making things worse for the child in the end.
What do you ladies do when you see someone being horrid to a child at the store? What can I say, or do to help the child and stop the behavior?


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## Valrock (Nov 10, 2004)

I actually got into a physical confrontation with a woman over her taking her shoe off and 'spanking' her child with it, in the parking garage at the mall. It wasn't pretty... I approached her and asked that she stop hurting her child and she attempted to assault me! The police were called... it was a mess and I often wonder if I made it worse for that poor baby







.

Anyway.. my point is, I don't confront people anymore.

I do loudly announce to my child that "This is why mommy doesn't hit, it makes you look like a big bully and it's not very nice!" or I have a loud talk about how hitting is a mean thing to do and that people who hit don't know how to use their words, with my 4 year old. I think it usually makes them stop and think that people are watching. Maybe not, but I'd like to think so... *sigh*.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

ugh, i hate it. it's a wretchid thing to see someone being cruel to a child. there's a huge difference btn a mama having a less than awesome parenting moment, and someone being horrible. i usually intervene. how i intervene depends alot on the situation, who is involved, and if i am alone or with LO's of my own to look after. this is a good read on the subject-link is for part 1, there are 2.

kids remember stuff. i recently had a teenager (friend of the family) tell me she never forgot a few things (kind) that i said to her when she was having family troubles at age 5, that she thought of my words, my way, and me, often, and i was humbled and moved to tears that i'd had such an impact on someone with such a seemingly small thing. i had not seen this young lady in almost 7 yrs, but she remembered that one moment of that one day with such clarity that it is a part of the fabric of who she is.

it's important to show a child in a bad situation that not all grown ups are mean, and maybe you also make an impression on the adult, too, and they make a change for the better.

there have been many times i've intervened in situations-the most recent time i got involved was when we were at the park a few weeks ago. my ds and another little girl were standing on a slide platform, me behind ds, and the other mom behind her dd, when the mom of the girl SCREAMED at her and YANKED her very violently toward her. ds and i jumped, and he turned to look at me, terrified and frozen.

the little girl had peed in her pants, and the mom screamed awful, heartbreakingly nasty things at her as she dragged her off the platform and to the ground, where she scooped her up and walked to other side of the park. i was shocked speechless for a moment, i literally couldnt move, but had to say something to diffuse that woman-i picked up ds and went over to her and, trying to seem empathetic, told her my dd didnt stay dry until 3, that potty learning takes alot of time, and the poor baby didnt do it on purpose. I offered her a pair of pants, since ds and her dd seemed to be the same size, which she accepted.

this whole time, the poor little baby girl was cowering under the slide, wearing soggy pants, and it's like, 45 degrees and WINDY-my heart was aching.

wouldnt you know i DIDNT freaking have pants in the car either-so i apologized and offered her a long sleeve shirt of dd to maybe wear like a skirt or something to get her out of the wet pants, because it was SO COLD OUTSIDE and i knew she had to be miserable, adding we'd done the same thing a few times. (we had) (eta,after that situation, now, there are 2 entire outfits, with pants, in my trunk, JIC)

she looked at me like i had 2 heads, but accepted, and after another bit of small talk, was calm and seemingly rational again. i went over and spoke to the little girl, who spoke back to me for a bit. i complimented the mom on how intelligent and sweet the little girl was, trying to remind her of how precious the little girl was. she was a love, too, the little girl. she reminded me of my dd-same eye and hair color, and it made me want to whip that mama's UAV so hard...

they left, and she was nice to her dd as they left. im sure i didnt make her do a 180 in life or anything, but i did diffuse the situation right then, and maybe, hopefully, plant a seed in one or both of their minds.

there's not a clear cut black and white answer, i think, of what to do/how to react all the time, but i feel like i can't not jump in and help.

when i see a child being struck, i usually just tell the parent loudly, directly and firmly to please not hit their child. that has gotten me lots of nasty looks, some embarressed ones, some "mind your own business"s, and a couple "f-you"s, but it has always stopped the parent, at least in that moment. i tell the "mind your business" people that when they hit their kid in public in front of me, it becomes my business, and ask again that they please stop.

when i see a situation that seems to be escalating in that direction, i usually jump in and commisserate/empathize with whatever behavior child is doing, and offer to help the parents with whatever-if they have their hands full, or dropped stuff, or i talk to the child, or both.


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## momo7 (Apr 10, 2005)

well...here's the thing....unless they are beating the crap out of their
child...I mind my own buisiness.......which I hate doing......

Its just that when you come up on a situation you just never know what's behind it....everytning is not what it seems..and its possible you could be completely wrong....

Sometimes parents and children have rotten days for both of them at the same time....so its possible you see them at the wrong time....wrong place and wrong day...

Now there have been times I wanted to go sick.....because you see things that are just blatant and you know the parent is a shit......
those are the times I find it hard to mind my own busisness....I wish I had the gumption to say what's what....but I don't.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

it's better to say something. you arent going to make it worse for the child, likely they will live a life of being hit if you don't say anything, and probably even if you do - however, you will send them the message that what is being done to them is NOT okay and that they don't deserve to be treated that way. They can at least groow up knowing they don't deserve it, that at least 1 person in this world thought so, and maybe just maybe they wont hit their own children because they will learn from an outsider that it is in fact as wrong as it feels.

I spoke out to someone in a parking lot who looked at my like I was crazy and should mind my own buisiness, I did fear them getting physical with me, but they stoped what they were doing and hugged the child, and school officials escorted them all in and the lady wil be receiving services to help their family with parenting. (she was BEATING this child just whacking at him anywhere she could make contact, little kid too). anyway, IDK how much it helped - but did turn out this women wasnt even the childs parent - it was a grandparent.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

great post *erin*


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Erin** 
when i see a child being struck, i usually just tell the parent loudly, directly and firmly to please not hit their child. that has gotten me lots of nasty looks, some embarressed ones, some "mind your own business"s, and a couple "f-you"s, but it has always stopped the parent, at least in that moment. i tell the "mind your business" people that *when they hit their kid in public in front of me, it becomes my business,* and ask again that they please stop.

I really, really like this - but have to be honest, would be very wary of doing it when I'm out with my kids...which is like, 99% of the time. I don't know how they'd handle me getting into a confrontation with an angry, aggressive person....KWIM? I guess I"m lucky that I've never seen a child hit out in public, only seen parents having a mean tone with them...when that happens I try to get the child's eye for a moment and give them a warm, sympathetic, kind of sad smile...because I honestly am not sure what me addressing a parent in the supermarket is going to solve in that moment.

What I've done in the past is focus on my kids and letting them know what's going on. I have to say I find it kind of passive aggressive to loudly shout about how you think it's wrong to your "child", when you're obviously talking to the parent - I think that would make them more angry than a direct request to stop what they're doing.

I just - I'm so much less likely to confront aomeone when I'm with my kids, cause you just NEVER know what's going to completely set someone off. I suppose I should buck up some courage.


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## Valrock (Nov 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 

What I've done in the past is focus on my kids and letting them know what's going on. I have to say I find it kind of passive aggressive to loudly shout about how you think it's wrong to your "child", when you're obviously talking to the parent - I think that would make them more angry than a direct request to stop what they're doing.

I understand what you're saying here... I guess I'm just afraid of direct confrontation after what happened to me previously. The woman was much bigger than I am and could have injured me badly if she'd tried a little harder. I guess it's not so much wanting her to hear... it's wanting to make a point to my son that while other people may hurt each other it doesn't make it okay for us to do it, ya know? I wish I had more courage in these situations. I used to... but yeah.


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## jeliphish (Jul 18, 2007)

If I see physical abuse, like a parent absolutely beating a child (and I am alone- not with my child) I will confront because I am a social worker. I have twice called the police and intervened. Other times....when it's not physical abuse I leave it alone and get really really sad


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Valrock* 
I guess it's not so much wanting her to hear... it's wanting to make a point to my son that while other people may hurt each other it doesn't make it okay for us to do it, ya know? I wish I had more courage in these situations. I used to... but yeah.

No, I totally get you - and I do talk to my kids, for sure, but not loud enough for the adult to hear on purpose. I talk in my normal voice, which usually means that the adult can't hear me because we're usually walking away and not stopping to look. That's all I meant. I wouldn't talk softly on purpose, or loudly on purpose, I'd just speak in my normal voice addressing my children.


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## OkiMom (Nov 21, 2007)

Im usually wrapped up in trying to calm down my DD because she gets really REALLY upset when she sees people treating each other roughly. Last time she say someone spank a child she hid her face in my neck and wimpered. She can't stand people hitting each other. I worry at times shes really too sensitive but because of it I don't confront anyone. Last thing my poor baby needs is her mom arguing with someone. Now if I was alone I might go up and offer help since 1) it would distract them from their child, 2) it would make them realize others are watching and 3) I live in a military community (like 99% military), a lot of these spouses are dealing with being the only parent in a country thousands of miles away where the man (or woman) they love is in harms way, it leads to a LOT of stress and bad parenting moments.


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## Incubator (May 11, 2006)

Thank you all for your comments and experiences.
I think my two main issues are, A) I don't want my children to see it, and see me not stopping it and B) I don't want the child in question to grow up thinking that it's OK. I want him/her to know that it's NOT OK, and sometimes adults will defend them, rather than hurt them. I totally understand if a parent is just having a bad day. I know I've had my share of them, so I can't judge. I just want to be prepared for the day I see it. I would never forgive myself if I didn't say something, empathize with the parent and stop the child from getting hurt. I know I'd like some help on my bad days too.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

whew!!! i would have to say that in my 6 1/2 years of being a mommy, i have never come across any kind of violent parenting at all. questionable parenting perhaps. but never dangerous parenting. i have never seen a child spanked. a crying child ignored but not spanked.

if i did see a child being spanked though instead of appearing judgemental i would request them to please stop as it makes my heart hurt watching a child getting spanked hoping that that would help them realise if that is what they are doing to me how much worse it would be for their child.


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## NoliMum (Jan 18, 2007)

A lot of people mention it being a "bad parent day," and that "we could never know the whole situation," and maybe "that parent is just stressed beyond control."

I think that would be even MORE of a reason to intervene. If I am at the end of my rope and desperate enough to yell at or hit my child, PLEASE STOP ME. For the love of God, please! Even if it pisses me off, if it saves my child from my own wrath and insanity, I will be grateful in the end- and so will my child!


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NoliMum* 
A lot of people mention it being a "bad parent day," and that "we could never know the whole situation," and maybe "that parent is just stressed beyond control."

I think that would be even MORE of a reason to intervene. If I am at the end of my rope and desperate enough to yell at or hit my child, PLEASE STOP ME. For the love of God, please! Even if it pisses me off, if it saves my child from my own wrath and insanity, I will be grateful in the end- and so will my child!

me too please!


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 
whew!!! i would have to say that in my 6 1/2 years of being a mommy, i have never come across any kind of violent parenting at all. questionable parenting perhaps. but never dangerous parenting. i have never seen a child spanked. a crying child ignored but not spanked.

if i did see a child being spanked though instead of appearing judgemental i would request them to please stop as it makes my heart hurt watching a child getting spanked hoping that that would help them realise if that is what they are doing to me how much worse it would be for their child.

Me too. I wonder if it is geographical? The only incident I can remember as far back as I can remember is a mom tugging at her hair and shouting "I'm done" in a grocery store b/c her boys were wrassling and one got a bloody nose.

I would think most parents would be extremely cautious about acting bad in public. In fact, it seems to me that the truly abusive parents use premeditated violence and would never show their true colors in public. The ones freaking out in public are probably just having a terrible day and/or the kid is pushing their buttons.


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

I have never been in a situation where I saw a child being beaten but one time I was in a store and a mother was really yelling at her kids. I went over to her and said "sounds like you're having one of those days" and she smiled and agreed. I didn't hear any more yelling..maybe she was embarassed and yelled at home but I tried.

I would hope if I saw someone beating or verbally abusing a child I would step in. I am generally a very quiet and gentle person but sometimes the adrenaline happens. Like the time my mom and i were caring for my dying grandmother who had dementia...and my uncle didnt help us and kept ordering us to clean the house and wash his clothes..one day my mother and i just lost it..we both went after him and he actually backed away. LOL Hoping that would happen. Like I love that show "What would you do?"

And also, if the situation looks like it could escalate and you have your kids with you you could call 911..I think that's what I would do if I feared for my dd's safety.

DD is 9 and she is very sensitive to this kind of thing also.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeliphish* 
I will confront because I am a social worker.

I am glad that you do! As a social worker you are trained to recognize _abuse_.

I don't say anything. Its none of my business. No its not pretty and no one likes to see that, but its not your child, it doesn't take a village of mothers to raise a child, I want to not be bothered in parenting my child so I afford others the same respect.

Abusing a child, like locking them in a car, letting them play in the street, or play with something dangerous, thats an immediate danger that needs addressed.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

i hate that "its not your child" thing, as if they were a belonging. Chidlren need protection from poor treatment, even if its not severe abuse they need to know they don't deserve to be hit. and it's sad that some children just end up in families that hit them and other children are blessed to be born into gentle families - but I don't feel like the children should have to fend for themselves. that is just sucks to be them because they are their parent's child? they are a human too. If I saw a man smack his wife in the street I wouldn't say "none of my business, thats her husband not mine" nor would my husband say "none of my business, that's his wife not mine" but yet, if someone hits a children people say "it's their child, not mine" very sad. especially when a women can leave a man who hits her, a child cannot leave a parent who hits them. we need to protect the defenseless.


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## mommyto3girls (May 3, 2005)

after Sierra died I saw a mother with a baby in a cart around a year old. Baby was crying and the mother was doing one of those SLAP "Now stop crying! SLAP "I told you to stop crying"

I have seen it done to older kids (not that it makes it okay, it makes no sense to hit a kid and expect them to stop crying) but this was a BABY!

I rushed over and said "Please, stop hitting your baby, he doesn't understand and you're hurting him." She yelled at me to mind my own business and "just wait til you have to deal with a screaming brat" (I was obviously pregnant with Maia at the time) I replied "I would love to be dealing with a screaming baby right now, my firstborn should be 8 months old now, but she's dead. I would give anything to be pushing her through the store screaming instead of thinking about the fact that she will never take another breath."

A bit harsh, some may think so. But it was so horrible to watch her abuse this beautifl baby, this amazing gift, knowing that I would never have the chance to see Sierra reach that stage.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

good for you for saying something, and I hope maybe it helped her realize what a precious gift she had with her. I only wish her child was old enough to hear you stick up and say that she didnt deserve to be hit


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## NoliMum (Jan 18, 2007)

I had a close encounter yesterday, and it left me feeling sick, even though I did not actually witness any hitting.

My 3 y.o. was being a little difficult at a restaurant and I apologized, and the waitress said, "Oh it's okay. My little sister is 3. She is such a spoiled brat." Okay, sisters will be sisters, right?

Then she said, "When she yells at me, I just slap her on the mouth."

I didn't know what to say so I just made a sad face and said, "Aw!" Trying to convey that I felt sorry for her little sister. She then said, "Well, she really likes me, so she doesn't get mad when I do that."


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## mamarootoo (Sep 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
it's better to say something. you arent going to make it worse for the child, likely they will live a life of being hit if you don't say anything, and probably even if you do - *however, you will send them the message that what is being done to them is NOT okay and that they don't deserve to be treated that way. They can at least groow up knowing they don't deserve it, that at least 1 person in this world thought so*, and maybe just maybe they wont hit their own children because they will learn from an outsider that it is in fact as wrong as it feels

I spoke out to someone in a parking lot who looked at my like I was crazy and should mind my own buisiness, I did fear them getting physical with me, but they stoped what they were doing and hugged the child, and school officials escorted them all in and the lady wil be receiving services to help their family with parenting. (she was BEATING this child just whacking at him anywhere she could make contact, little kid too). anyway, IDK how much it helped - but did turn out this women wasnt even the childs parent - it was a grandparent.

i remember reading bout that. it still makes me sad...









Quote:


Originally Posted by *kriket* 
I am glad that you do! As a social worker you are trained to recognize _abuse_.

I don't say anything. Its none of my business. No its not pretty and no one likes to see that, but its not your child, it doesn't take a village of mothers to raise a child, I want to not be bothered in parenting my child so I afford others the same respect.

Abusing a child, like locking them in a car, letting them play in the street, or play with something dangerous, thats an immediate danger that needs addressed.

there was just a thread (it was closed) about if it's ok to leave your kids in the car for a minute or two. i'm not trying to start that discussion again, but there are lots of good mamas here on MDC who DON'T think it's unsafe. and what do you mean by "playing with something dangerous?" what is too dangerous? a stick wouldn't cause anyone to bat an eye, but it could take out an eye, right?
and when you're talking a bout a child playing in the street being abuse, i'm sure you mean a busy street, right? or do you think playing at the end of a quiet cul-de-sac is abuse?
my point is that there are different degrees of "ok-ness" in the things you cited as being "abuse" so why not with physical abuse too?
i wouldn't call the police or step in if i saw a child getting a spanking-- even though i think that is wrong. i would, however step in of i saw someone punching a child in the face repeatedly.

one question... what if a your child's babysitter was the one hitting a child in public-- and your child was the one getting hit? would you still feel like it was no one elses business?

i hope this doesn't come off as snarky-- i'm just trying to come at it from a different angle


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## zipworth (Jun 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kriket* 

I don't say anything. Its none of my business. No its not pretty and no one likes to see that, but its not your child, it doesn't take a village of mothers to raise a child, I want to not be bothered in parenting my child so I afford others the same respect.

Abusing a child, like locking them in a car, letting them play in the street, or play with something dangerous, thats an immediate danger that needs addressed.

I think a child has a right to not be hit or called names. Anyone who does this in public is begging for intervention! Not doing anything is like giving people permission to mistreat children. I have had crappy days as a parent sure! But please someone, intervene if I start hitting them or verbally attacking them!


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

omg triple post!!


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

dbl post


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

ok, I should qualify my statement

I am against ME saying anything to a parent. If the parent is committing a crime then you should contact the police, CPS whomever, the proper authority.

Vigilante justice always backfires.

I know a lot of mamas will argue that the law isn't enough or that these parents need to be 'taught a lesson' but the law is all we have, if you don't like it petition for change! Lesson teaching is BS. No one that is abusing a child has the ability to learn a lesson. Their is obviously something deeper that needs address. Maybe they need 'sensitivity training' maybe they need to have their children removed.

Quote:

one question... what if a your child's babysitter was the one hitting a child in public-- and your child was the one getting hit? would you still feel like it was no one elses business?
I hate the "IF" game, but I'll bite. If I found out that my child was being beaten by a babysitter, I would contact the police and request that her DCP license be revoked. There really isn't anything else that could be done.

I would also have a talk with my LO about what happened and what to do if it ever happens again.


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
i hate that "its not your child" thing, as if they were a belonging. Chidlren need protection from poor treatment, even if its not severe abuse they need to know they don't deserve to be hit. and it's sad that some children just end up in families that hit them and other children are blessed to be born into gentle families - but I don't feel like the children should have to fend for themselves. that is just sucks to be them because they are their parent's child? they are a human too. If I saw a man smack his wife in the street I wouldn't say "none of my business, thats her husband not mine" nor would my husband say "none of my business, that's his wife not mine" but yet, if someone hits a children people say "it's their child, not mine" very sad. especially when a women can leave a man who hits her, a child cannot leave a parent who hits them. we need to protect the defenseless.

Um yeah, if I saw an adult hit another adult...in the context you described, I would stay out of it. Not my business.

Now if I saw someone being assualted (and I realize that some of you like to call spanking "assualt" but I think we can recognize the difference that I am trying to make here) then I would definitely call 911..be it adult or child. Oh and I am NOT a spanker, not at all...I just don't like the use of super charged words to make a point (like calling abortion "muder", etc.). So please don't take the above to mean that I am in favor of spanking.

I agree with whomever said that we don't always know the entire story and that we should stay out of things and mind our own business...even if it does make us sad to see a child being treated in a way that we don't agree with. I've had my own horrible parenting moments and I would hate to be the busybody who tried to step in and tell me how to parent my child during those moments.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

mommyto3girls, im so sorry for the loss of your baby girl. thank you for sharing that. i'm glad you intervened that day, that mustve been hard.

i am often very nervous, sometimes even afraid, when i go to speak out for a child. i was raised to be a doormat, and im inwardly terrified of confrontations, but i have a kneejerk, almost unshakable reflex to help a child if i see them being battered. unless there was an almost certain chance of harm to my own LO's, i will get involved some kind of way. honestly, im really surprised at how many people have said they don't, because it's not their business.

i don't subscribe to the village philosophy of childrearing, myself, but as pp mentioned, i would sure hope someone would speak up in some way if they saw ME having core meltdown on one of my LO's in public. when i have been having a challenging day, i've been diffused by a nice word or kind gesture myself on occassion.

i don't think it's being judgemental to help a child. to me, it isnt hard to tell the difference between a situation that has reached critical mass and one where mama (or whomever) is put out and frustrated, needing a bit of help, or a kind word.

i mean, really. we arent talking about interfering with someone's parenting philosophy. im not gonna go accost a mama for ignoring a crying kid or feeding her baby a blue koolaid bottle or something. we're talking about hitting, screaming, yelling, nastiness.

it boggles me that it's still legal in the US to strike a child. it isnt legal in 24 countries. it is so fundamentally wrong to hit a little child, (or a big one, or a grown up) especially in a rage of anger. and when it's coupled with verbal abuse, please. verbal abuse on it's own is not ok either.

how does abuse fall under "parenting choice"?

and i stick by my statement that when you do it in public, in front of me, it becomes my business.

as far as how my kids feel about this all, my ds is still very small, but my dd would be way more disturbed if i said nothing.

she is profoundly aware of and disturbed by children being mistreated. in fact, the first time she really saw a little girl get hit (in a mcdonalds playplace, when she was 2.5) she burst into tears and yelled at me to "help that baby, mama, that lady is HURTING HER!" she expects me to help. and i am proud of that.

i am not running up screaming and engaging in full out fights-i usually have a very gentle way, and i have a non-confrontational attitude most of the time. i havent gotten into a fight with anyone. the worst has been the nasty one-liners, and the people walked away. i'll take that. no big deal.

as far as a man hitting a woman, i would absolutely get involved. without hesitation. the only way i wouldnt is if the area were not in public view, and if i felt it would directly put my kids in harm's way.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

also, i would not say this at all falls under the term "vigilante justice"....to me that implies going and enacting vengence after some sort of specific, legal system failure.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

if it were abuse I would want police involved. if it were just a spanking I would still speak up. The child deserves to know that hitting is not okay, even if an adult is the one doing it.

The unauthorized caregiver spanking is a good point too. you don't know who is the one doing the hitting, even if its NOT abuse, and if it were my child even if I WERE okay with spanking I would not be okay with someone else doing it and I would want someone to stop it.

that being said, if *I* were the parent who had lost my cool and was hitting my child PLEASE somebody stop me!!! Perhaps we can risk offending a few people so that those who want help (parent or child) can get the help they need. As usual, adults are taking precedence over children (who are defenseless) They cannot fight back, and they cannot choose to be partnered with another parent if they don't like the way their parent is treating them. I'd venture to say that at least 95% of the time a parent-child hitting relationship is not mutual... so we should be quiet so we don't hurt the parents feelings.... but not speak up so the child's body isnt getting hurt? Why are we siding with the attacker? Whats worse, when a child is being ht in public and everyone keeps walking by it sends the message "i deserve to be treated this way".


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I've never seen this. I have to think if I saw someone being abusive I'd call the police.


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

personally, i mind my own business. I feel that hitting a child is abusive, BUT I know that some people feel that nursing my 4 year old is abusive. I'm certainly not going to go up an lecture a stranger because I know I wouldn't appreciate it if the roles were reversed.

If I feel like a parent is having a really hard time with what they're doing, I will certainly offer to help, to make things easier for them when they're having a hard time. Or just say I have bad days too. I really don't understand how anyone thinks it will do anyone any good to talk really loudly near the motherinquestion about how awful they are. I guess it might make you feel all high and mighty to do so, and if that's how you get your kicks, whatever, but seriously, grow up.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

nothing about seeing a child being hit makes me feel high and mighty. I speak up ONLY out of concern for the child because I once was that child. I don't say how aweful they are, but I do ask them to stop what they are doing, and if they are open to help I will gladly help them. This is NOT about the other parent. We are in such an adult centered society even the best of us have been blinded into thinking its just about the parents. When a child is being hit, the reason to confront the situation is for THE CHILD not the adult. There is no high and mighty attached. All I feel is fear they may switch from hitting the child to hitting me, and pain that this child is suffering at the hands of someone who should cherish them. I feel far from above the other parent. Because I am sympathizing with the child, and the child feels below the other adult. If anything I feel afraid. I feel down to have seen that, and vulnerable that I may be next - down and vulnerable - not high and mighty. I don't get kicks from it. I get physically ill from the sight of it. It's NOT an enjoyable experience for me. And to be honest, I had to grow up before I was able to speak up, because my own childhood had me so beaten up myself that I was TOO afraid to say anything. AT one point I probably would have looked the other way. I would have looked the other way if someone was being robbed. I would want someone to help me though, if I were victim to another person, so I don't look the other way anymore.

That being said, there ARE times I look the other way. Like if a child is having a tantrum in a store I look the other way because I know that mama/papa are probably really embarrassed as it is and the less people that are staring at them then they will feel comfortable to be patient and not rushed into "getting their child under control". I tried the kind understanding smile once and it backfired. a toddler was running around in front of the school and I was looking and smiling in a "aren't kids so adorable at that age" kind of way, but I think I somehow pressured the mama into thinking she had to get her child to stand still, so she grabbed his wrist and slapped his hand. I didn't intend to pressure her into doing anything, I thought her child was being precious and he wasn't doing anything wrong (in my eyes)... sometimes we can pressure others into feeling like they need to "do something" and so I try not to make other parents feel pressured when I'm out. And sometimes its my child having the tantrum, so I understand how in those times you don't want to feel any additional pressure. It's normal for their age. So its not like I'm walking around judging people or thinking I am better then them. My kids act up too. I don't always know what to do either. But if I see a PERSON being hurt - regardless of who the person is, or who is doing the hurting - I will speak up. And I find that I had to mature a great deal to get to the point where I was able to do this.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

here are 26 articles on speaking up when you witness child abuse:
http://www.helium.com/knowledge/2797...ss-child-abuse

and here is a great series of articles:
Intervening on Behalf of a Child in a Public Place
Part 1: Is It Our Business?
http://www.naturalchild.com/jan_hunt/intervention1.html

Intervening on Behalf of a Child in a Public Place
Part 2: What Can We Do?
http://www.naturalchild.com/jan_hunt/intervention2.html


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
here are 26 articles on speaking up when you witness child abuse:
http://www.helium.com/knowledge/2797...ss-child-abuse

and here is a great series of articles:
Intervening on Behalf of a Child in a Public Place
Part 1: Is It Our Business?
http://www.naturalchild.com/jan_hunt/intervention1.html

Intervening on Behalf of a Child in a Public Place
Part 2: What Can We Do?
http://www.naturalchild.com/jan_hunt/intervention2.html

Huh well I retract my earlier statement of thinking public abuse must be rare b/c people don't want to be caught. I guess it must be epidemic to have that much written about it!

Just sad.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

it is sad really







what has to be realized also is that often these people do not see what they are doing as abuse - they are only doing what their parents did to them or what they believe is necessary. there are those who belt their child and do it with religious conviction. They may even know their actions are "abusive" according to the law, but do not feel their actions are abusive according to their beliefs (some feel nothing wrong with belting a child or may not even know it is illegal to do so for example) so there is a lot involved to it all. I guess I feel that if a parent is abusing their child in public that they aren't thinking about getting "caught" because either 1)they feel justified or 2) more likely - they don't know what they are doing is abusive (such as the person I confronted beating the young child in the back of a minivan with the door open) They just feel they are "parenting" and what makes them no different then me is that neither of us are putting our parenting "on hold" just because we are in public. Of course we should worry about those who are smart enough to know they are being abusive and smart enough to hide the abuse







but those who don't know any better, speaking up COULD make all the difference in that childs life - whether its "just a spanking" or whether its a beating.

I don't mind if others don't want to speak up about it, you have to do what you are comfortable with ya know?

I just don't appreciate the notion that those of us who do speak up are doing it to feel better about ourselves. its not about us or the other parent. Frankly, I would rather not see it. If I spoke up because I wanted to feel high and mighty then I would probably enjoy seeing it and having the chance to speak up - but more so I DREAD it and feel terrible when I witness it. there is nothing about these situations that make me feel better about myself







often after witnessing these things I have a hard time getting myself "right" again. I am so shook up and I have to face my own childhood all over again, my heart races, I feel sick, i'm shaking, im crying. There is not one second I feel good about it.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

well, i must live in the child abuse capital of the world, because i see a kid get smacked, seriously, maybe half of all park trips? we go to the park at least once most days. just about every time i am grocery shopping, i see a kid get hit. or hear one or two or more get spoken to badly enough to make me cringe.

i LOL when i read that comment about feeling high and mighty...on the contrary, it breaks my heart, and makes me feel, despondant about the world a little bit. high and mighty isnt who i am, or ever will be. i don't judge. im very empathetic. i feel sorry for the parents doing the hitting, bc it's pretty likely that they were hit and spoken to the way that they hit and speak to their kids. like supergluemommy already said.

i dont speak up because it makes me feel better than someone else-i have seen that attitude before, and it's awful. ive been on the recieving end of it. i was snapping at my dd to stop whining one day, when we were in target, (LOOOOONG day, crappy shopping trip, i was bedraggled, no sleep...) and a well dressed older lady looked at me like i was beating her and told me, in a very nasty, condescending tone, that i shouldnt be so disrespectful to my child, bc she was only a child and i was lucky to have her. then she smiled sadly and pitingly at dd. omfg. i thought i might explode. i just looked at her and smiled and said something about how we all have bad days, and i walked to a different register, simmering, livid and embarressed.

sucked. i would never approach someone like that.

i do feel good that i speak up, but not because i feel i am superior to anyone.

i thought that came across pretty clearly in my earlier posts?

there still seems to be a feeling on this thread that hitting a kid is a type of parenting choice, like extended breastfeeding, or something. it is not a parenting choice. it is one big person causing pain and possibly damage to a little person's body. i guess im going to agree to disagree that that falls under a personal parenting choice.

i have never gone up to someone and lectured them. not my style. i have said, please don't hit him/her. calmly, and quietly. or like in my first post, i get involved some other kind of way that helps the situation. or i speak to the parents, commisserate, offer help. in the case of a kid having meltdown, i *have* been there, and if i am close to the parent, always try to tell them with a big grin, hey, im glad it's not my kid today, cause it was mine down there on that floor not too long ago..or something...it sucks so hard to be the one with the kid melting down. it's nice to get a pat on the back, that your kid isnt the only kid in the universe to ever do that. there are plenty of people that stare and act like they are...i always appreciate the commisseration, and other folks i talk to seem to, too.

i am really surprised to see this attitude here on MDC of all places. the don't get involved at all attitude.

how in the world does anyone expect change to happen if you just keep on walking by?


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Erin** 
also, i would not say this at all falls under the term "vigilante justice"....to me that implies going and enacting vengeance after some sort of specific, legal system failure.


Quote:


Originally Posted by **Erin** 
it boggles me that it's still legal in the US to strike a child. it isnt legal in 24 countries. it is so fundamentally wrong to hit a little child, (or a big one, or a grown up) especially in a rage of anger. and when it's coupled with verbal abuse, please. verbal abuse on it's own is not ok either.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

well put Erin!! The US still sees children as property of their parents though (much like an animal or your patio) instead of seeing them as adults who deserve human rights as well. Actually, there seems to be more laws protecting animals then children these days...

Legally hitting a child is an acceptable parent choice. But legally, a person hitting another person is not an acceptable choice - and there are consequences for doing so. This sends the message that children are not people. OF course as parents we have to make choices for our children - much like a legal guardian has to make choices for a disabled adult - but its okay to hit children but not those adults... so the arguement for "health care" does not stand with me. We are talking about basic human rights being respected.


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
Actually, there seems to be more laws protecting animals then children these days...

Personally, I would prefer there to be LESS laws "protecting" children. Because I do several things I know the majority would like to "protect" my child from. home birth and not vaccinating in particular.

The point is, you have opinions about how children should be treated. I also have opinions about how children should be treated, and I would guess that we share some opinions about how children should be treated. BUT, not everyone does. Most people I know don't agree with spanking. But most people that I know also think homebirth is dangerous, and that not vaccinating is a public health risk. I very firmly believe that what I am doing is RIGHT. If I didn't, why would I do them? The thing is, that applies to most people. They do what they do because they think it is RIGHT. I do not want them making decisions for me and I know they do not want me making decisions for them.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

you are comparing health issues with human rights. If you have an adult who you are responsible for (power of attorney) you can make health care decisions - but you still cant hit them!


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

ITA, supergluemommy. there are more laws protecting animals than kids.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kriket* 









im baffled as to why you are scratching your head.

is it that i said it's illegal to hit a kid in 24 countries?
CLICK HERE FOR A LIST
hitting a kid is still ok here in the us. so long as it's some type of "disciplinary" measure...
"vigilante justice"?
i said that because you used the phrase yourself in an earlier post. i found it to be an odd choice of words within the context of this discussion. (from link below) "Vigilante justice" is sometimes spurred on by the perception that criminal punishment is insufficient or nonexistent to the crime.
Members of community watch programs and others who use legal means of bringing people to justice are not considered vigilantes
commenting to someone who is hitting their kid, or starting a conversation with a stressed out parent is not a vigilante action! far from it.

mbhf, is there some reason you can think of in particular that outlawing HITTING A CHILD would then impinge upon ALL OTHER PARENTING CHOICES? or healthcare decisions?? because it doesnt seem to have worked out that way for the other countries who made it illegal. women still have lovely, government sanctioned homebirths and don't have vaccinate in the Netherlands, for example.

eta, so completely off topic, but i saw your location-we are close, in myrtle beach-and i looked at your siggie pics-i had to say that you and your entire family are all just totally lovely







your clementine gives me baby fever!

back to topic, now...


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

For those of you who feel you must intervene, please be careful. I grew up with the knowledge that sometimes kids who attract attention during a bad parent episode sometimes get a worse beating once they are home. You know, for embarrassing the parent or calling attention to "family business".


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## bramblevine (Mar 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
i hate that "its not your child" thing, as if they were a belonging. Chidlren need protection from poor treatment, even if its not severe abuse they need to know they don't deserve to be hit.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyto3girls* 
I rushed over and said "Please, stop hitting your baby, he doesn't understand and you're hurting him." She yelled at me to mind my own business and "just wait til you have to deal with a screaming brat" (I was obviously pregnant with Maia at the time) I replied "I would love to be dealing with a screaming baby right now, my firstborn should be 8 months old now, but she's dead. I would give anything to be pushing her through the store screaming instead of thinking about the fact that she will never take another breath."











Quote:


Originally Posted by *zipworth* 
I think a child has a right to not be hit or called names. Anyone who does this in public is begging for intervention! Not doing anything is like giving people permission to mistreat children.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *mbhf* 
Personally, I would prefer there to be LESS laws "protecting" children. Because I do several things I know the majority would like to "protect" my child from. home birth and not vaccinating in particular.

Too true.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
For those of you who feel you must intervene, please be careful. I grew up with the knowledge that sometimes kids who attract attention during a bad parent episode sometimes get a worse beating once they are home. You know, for embarrassing the parent or calling attention to "family business".

Also too true.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *philomom* 
For those of you who feel you must intervene, please be careful. I grew up with the knowledge that sometimes kids who attract attention during a bad parent episode sometimes get a worse beating once they are home. You know, for embarrassing the parent or calling attention to "family business".

this is horribly sad but 1)a person who is already beating their child in public obviously is not trying to hide the fact they beat their children, so often they dont get it "worse" at home. 2)the person is drawing attention to it, not the child and 3)the child will get beat in that way anyway, unfortunately, whether it be that day or the next, whether I say anything or not - but if I say something when that beating happens, and the next, and the next, they will know they wont deserve it.

All I can do is hope that the child one day gets the protection they need. Or like my husband, one day they are the bigger one, and they fight back


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Erin** 
mbhf, is there some reason you can think of in particular that outlawing HITTING A CHILD would then impinge upon ALL OTHER PARENTING CHOICES? or healthcare decisions?? because it doesnt seem to have worked out that way for the other countries who made it illegal. women still have lovely, government sanctioned homebirths and don't have vaccinate in the Netherlands, for example.

this is true. it was once legal for men to spank their wives. When they outlawed hitting a wife if did not impinge upon all other marriage rights. They didn't began telling people what kind of weddings they had to have, or take away the right to get divorced, or a woman's right to be a housewife.

It isn't anyone right to hit another person, except in the case of parenting. Though other people DO have the right to make health care choices for people in their care (as I said earlier, such as power of attorney) without having the right to hit them. This is about respecting a basic human right, not about health care choices. In the case of birth, the process involves the woman's body, so birthing choices and parenting choices are obviously seen as different as abortion is still legal. Also, putting a limit on how a child can be treated is not the same as controlling parenting. They aren't allowed to hit their child : but they are allowed to discipline - which includes countless other options. When they gave speed limits they didn't say you could drive. putting limits on how you treat a person doesn't mean you can't discipline. and there are limits in place now - that hasn't effected other areas of parenting. I'm sure parents who believe they should be allowed to belt their children don't care if its a law and do it anyway. and the things most would call abuse they do not see as abuse, they see it as "parenting". Why is it parenting when done to a child but assault when done to another adult? Changing the law probably wouldn't change a whole lot at first, but it would send the message that hitting is not okay. Well the law may never send that message to children but we sure can!


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Honestly all I ever do is make eye contact with the adult. I want them to know their behavior has been seen and that abuse is not normal or invisible. Sometimes I think this can make someone realize what they're doing. I say this because I was speaking unkindly to DD once (very bad day) and noticed someone staring, and it actually did snap me out of it and make me realize how I sounded.


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Erin** 
mbhf, is there some reason you can think of in particular that outlawing HITTING A CHILD would then impinge upon ALL OTHER PARENTING CHOICES? or healthcare decisions?? because it doesnt seem to have worked out that way for the other countries who made it illegal. women still have lovely, government sanctioned homebirths and don't have vaccinate in the Netherlands, for example.

I feel that it is a slippery slope. I do not want people to tell me how to raise my children, and saying it's okay for the government to outlaw spanking is saying it's okay to outlaw other parenting decisions that some/most people think are wrong. And, from what I hear, the government sanctioned homebirths in many countries aren't much different from a "natural birth" in a hospital, so I will gladly pay for my own and be happy that my homebirth midwives have had relatively few restrictions. But, that is a whole other post.









You and I feel that hitting a child is wrong. Many other parents, including my dh, see it as good parenting. (for the record, my dh does not hit our children, but it is because of my feelings on the issue)

I had a whole long thing typed out here, but I felt like I was making an argument for spanking, which i am not, so I will leave it out.

My point is, different people have very different ideas about what is good parenting and what is abuse. sometimes what one parent sees as abuse another sees as good parenting, and vise versa. I have had many arguments about this issue, with my dh and with many other people, and they all felt just as strongly as I do just in opposite directions. I would say most people are kind of middle of the road. I used to believe that what the way I parent is right (still do) and that everyone else thought how I parent is right (found out that's not true) and they just parented differently because they were lazy/mean/stupid/whatever. But it's not true. I can argue until my head explodes that my way is the right way, because I believe it, but other people with differing opinions can do the same. Who am I to tell them that they have to do it my way?

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Erin** 
eta, so completely off topic, but i saw your location-we are close, in myrtle beach-and i looked at your siggie pics-i had to say that you and your entire family are all just totally lovely








your clementine gives me baby fever!

back to topic, now...


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

so then, if a person thinks its good parenting to leave welts with a belt, they should be allowed to do it because if they aren't then I might not be able to have a home birth one day? I just really don't see a problem with one simple rule - no hitting. That rule aplies to EVERYONE except children. why not to the most fragile? and because the laws on abuse are so "interpretable" we have children who end up DEAD because a court rules something as "just a spanking" when it IS in fact serious abuse.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mbhf* 
Personally, I would prefer there to be LESS laws "protecting" children. Because I do several things I know the majority would like to "protect" my child from. home birth and not vaccinating in particular.

I agree. I also tend to think that their should be less laws all together.

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Erin** 
im baffled as to why you are scratching your head.

Because you state that you don't consider confronting a parent vigilante because vigilante is "going after some specific legal failure"

Then you state that every country but the US has more defined child abuse laws. Wouldn't that be your "specific legal failure"?

And what do we hope to get out of this? Do you really think the parent of the child give a hoot what some lady in the supermarket thinks? 'Stepping in' when a parent is being violent is only going to put yourself between a child and the obviously irrational and upset parent.

If better worded laws are what we need then be proactive about getting child abuse laws updated. Stopping people in the supermarket accomplishes nothing.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin* 
Um yeah, if I saw an adult hit another adult...in the context you described, I would stay out of it. Not my business.

Now if I saw someone being assualted (and I realize that some of you like to call spanking "assualt" but I think we can recognize the difference that I am trying to make here) then I would definitely call 911..be it adult or child.

What do you consider assault, then?







I get that you want to exclude spanking from that catagory, but you also just excluded an adult hitting another adult as 'not your business'. So I'm not sure what kind of definition you're using.


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## KittyDanger (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm always torn on this issue as well. Three instances stick out in my mind...and this was before I even had children.

1. I was working in the mall around Christmas and a woman was dragging her toddler around the mall shopping (while talking on her cell phone, but that's a whole other issue














. The mall had extended hours and it was late and he was getting tired and cranky and she screamed "shut the f up" at him bc he was crying. I told her she should be ashamed of herself and she threatened to beat me up...she never even got off the phone.

2. I used to work at a party store and a woman came in with her small daughter, she was maybe four, and they were shopping around for things for her party. They came to my counter to check out and the little girl was telling me she was having a party and he mom turns to me and goes "she thinks she's having this like, huge party. It's only going to be a couple of people". I felt so bad for her.

3. At the same party store I saw a woman with a one year old sitting in the seat area of the shopping cart and I guess he was doing something she didn't like so she raised a closed fist to him like she was going to punch him in the face. I wanted to cry.

Two of those instances I didn't do anything, and I'm sure that if I had said or done something I wouldn't have changed their thinking, and since I wasn't a parent yet, while I did feel repulsed I figured it wasn't my place.

Since I have had my child I have called the cops on a woman who left her 2 small children and infant in her car for over a half an hour. My mom used to leave me in the car when I was little and it always terrified me.

That being said one of the proudest moments of my life came from a situation where I chose to ACT. I used to live in West Philadelphia and the area can be a bit rough at times. Once when I was walking home from the grocery store I saw a group of about 10 young teenage boys chasing another boy. When they were directly across the street from me they beat him to the ground and started kicking him in the head. There were two other adults watching this happen and no one was doing anything so I ran across the street and started shoving them off him ( I honestly thought they were going to kill him). They kept on punching and kicking him with me trying to push them away until I pulled out my cell phone and said I was calling the cops. They scattered and another adult that witnessed came and sat with the boy until the cops/ambulance came. Thinking back on it I could have easily been shot/stabbed/punched, but I would do it again in a heatbeat. I walked away crying and shaking (that was easily the most violent thing I have ever witnessed) but I was so proud that I had the courage to stop them.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

often the parents wont change. for me its not really about me or the other parent - its about letting that child know they don't deserve that.

I do agree there should be less laws - we are libertarian - but I do think that laws on human rights should be across the board. nobody should be allowed to abuse or assault another person physically or sexually, regardless of age, gender, race, or social status.


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## nudhistbudhist (Jan 13, 2009)

When I was 12 my best friend was Filipino, and her dad and brother were brought up in the Philipines with all kinds of physical punishments as children, including being forced to kneel on course salt for an hour, and being beat with sticks etc. my gf's dad told her older brother to physically keep her in line. One day, she hadnt made dinner or done the dishes yet (we were playing with make-up instead lol) so he called her downstairs. After about 30 seconds I heard her yelling and screaming. I ran downstairs and he was breaking a broom on her back/head. I didnt even think about it... I screamed and charged him in the stomach and threw my whole body and soul into it. we both fell thru the bathrom door. he was shocked. So was I. I screamed at him that he was NEVER EVER to touch her again or I would call the cops and social services. We live in Canada and that is NOT OK HERE!!!!!! He never ever touched her again. Her dad did, but she called social services herself and he was forced to leave!!!!!

My mum was beat by my dad in front of me when i was kid, so I think thats why I reacted so strongly







It is my place to say something!!!!!!! Silence is acceptance.


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## Realcraftymama (Sep 22, 2007)

We deal with this issue often as I frequently shop at WalMart, where people go to hit their kids while saving money. This link has helped me out in the past... http://www.nospank.net/stang.htm


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## gsd1amommy (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Realcraftymama* 
We deal with this issue often as I frequently shop at WalMart, where people go to hit their kids while saving money. This link has helped me out in the past... http://www.nospank.net/stang.htm

OMG! You must be kidding me!


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nudhistbudhist* 
Silence is acceptance.

yes.

yes. yes. yes.
your story gave me goosebumps.
i know your friend will never forget what you did for her.

kittydanger, wow. you go mama.

krikit, apples and oranges. whatever. no i don't think im righting a legal wrong by intervening. i sure do think that the legislation needs to change, but that's not why i say something. i would say something regardless of the law. i say something because im a mother, and a member of my community, and i see a child in distress who sees me seeing them in distress and i just can't not help them out. if not me, who? dial 911? really? cps? seriously?
i can imagine the reaction i'd get calling either of them to alert them to come quick and help the kid getting their bottom/face/arms spanked in the walmart. (lol, realcraftymama-"the place people go to hit their kids while saving money")
really.
it would be nice to have the law on the side of the children, but whether it is or isnt makes no difference to me irt to my decision to speak up.

mbhf, i appreciate your response. i do see your points, but i think i have to agree to disagree. i can't see physically hurting a child as an effective, non-damaging, non-abusive form of discipline, period. i just dont think it should be a choice at all.

neither do the United Nations: "UNESCO recommends that corporal punishment be prohibited in schools, homes and institutions as a form of discipline, and claims that it is a violation of human rights as well as counterproductive, ineffective, dangerous and harmful to children."

the UK-"The Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health is against spanking[26] and opposes striking of children in all circumstances. The Royal College of Psychiatrists also takes the position that corporal punishment is unacceptable in all circumstances."

and plenty others....even the AAP issued a statement against it.

why is it that if you did the same thing to another adult, they could charge you with assault and battery, but if you do it to a kid, it's discipline?

it's been said before, but im gonna say it again, children are not property. they are human beings.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Erin its so refreshing to meet someone who understands how I feel. I could have written your post. well said, again.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
Erin its so refreshing to meet someone who understands how I feel. I could have written your post. well said, again.

back at you, mama. thank you


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## mbhf (Jan 8, 2005)

Erin, I know we have agreed to disagree







but I feel like you are misunderstanding me. I am in no way pro-spanking. I also do not see it as an effective form of discipline, at all. I would never allow any one to spank my children. I am not making an arguement for it, I am just saying that as strongly as you and I feel AGAINST spanking, someone else feels just as strongly FOR it. I do not want the majority telling me how to raise my children, so I will not tell someone else how to raise theirs. People have very different opinions on what is best for children. I feel that most people who spank their children do so because they think it is best for them.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mbhf* 
Erin, I know we have agreed to disagree







but I feel like you are misunderstanding me. I am in no way pro-spanking. I also do not see it as an effective form of discipline, at all. I would never allow any one to spank my children. I am not making an arguement for it, I am just saying that as strongly as you and I feel AGAINST spanking, someone else feels just as strongly FOR it. I do not want the majority telling me how to raise my children, so I will not tell someone else how to raise theirs. People have very different opinions on what is best for children. I feel that most people who spank their children do so because they think it is best for them.

amen.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

I felt you were clear mbhf but if you believe that do you believe people should be able to stone their children if they believe strongly that its an effective form of discipline? there are laws that protect everyone from being hit, except children. its not about parenting, its about human rights. In America, though our constitution is obviously not respected, it's a child constitutional right not to be hit. assuming we are seeing children as just as human as an adult. I am all about our country enforcing the constitution WITHOUT BIAS and doing away with any other laws that do not respect it. No one is telling them HOW to raise their children, we are just enforcing that they have the same right not to be intentionally physically hurt as an adult does. No one is saying you have to parent this way, we are just saying you have to treat children like they are human too. That they deserve the same human rights. Not to say "you must discipline this way" Its not even a discipline or parenting issue! It's a HUMAN RIGHTS issue!!


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mbhf* 
Erin, I know we have agreed to disagree







but I feel like you are misunderstanding me. I am in no way pro-spanking. I also do not see it as an effective form of discipline, at all. I would never allow any one to spank my children. I am not making an arguement for it, I am just saying that as strongly as you and I feel AGAINST spanking, someone else feels just as strongly FOR it. I do not want the majority telling me how to raise my children, so I will not tell someone else how to raise theirs. People have very different opinions on what is best for children. I feel that most people who spank their children do so because they think it is best for them.

no, i think im understanding you loud and clear-i know that you are just as appalled by spanking as i am, and you are totally not a spanker! where we are differing in opinion is that you think it is a choice that should be left to the parents. i do not agree. *i think it is not and should not even be allowed to BE a choice!*


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