# Do I really have to supplement with formula?



## blueridgewoman (Nov 19, 2001)

Everyone keeps saying that eventually, when dd is older, I'll have to supplement with formula while she's eating solids. I'm very opposed to formula (sorry...I know that there are absolutely cases where its necessary, etc) and I really really don't want her to get a single drop. Do I have to eventually supplement, or if I practice CLW and she goes for a few years, is that okay?

I guess what I'm asking is, what's the cutoff age where, if she should wean herself, do I not have to supplement her?


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## neverdoingitagain (Mar 30, 2005)

1 year. And no, you never need to supplement. If you absolutely NEED to supplement (health reason, that sort of thing) then under a year. Even if you ff, you would be told to wean at 1 year. Reasons escape me.


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## wryknowlicious (Apr 19, 2006)

Unless you are experiancing supply failure or other suplly issues - there should be no reason to supplement her with formula - no matter what her age. You will have no reaons to supplement unles there is a physiological problem.

thats insane - who are these people who are telling you this? perhaps they do not realize that your body makes as much milk as your child demands. Just becasue you feed an older child solids does not mean that your boobs stop working. If anythign you may choose to give plain water in a sippy cup during table food "meals".

I nursed my ODD untill she was 13 months old (at which point I did hit a supply issue - I dried up completley i the midst of severe hyperesmisis in m y2nd pregnancy). And I NEVER supplemented her with formula.
My YDD nursed untill this January -27 months old. No formula.


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## wryknowlicious (Apr 19, 2006)

* when I say "no matter what her age" I am automatically assuming that you will be BFing on demand for at least a year.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I've had four children and none have ever had a drop of formula.

If you would wean her before a year, then you would have to give formula. But it doesn't sound like you're planning on doing that, and barring any sort of medical catastrophe, it's highly unlikely she'll wean herself before a year.

You're doing great, mama. Don't listen to the naysayers!


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## blueridgewoman (Nov 19, 2001)

You know, part of the issue is that I am feeding dd from one side exclusively and it's hard for people to believe I could nourish an older baby.

Gah, people.


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## Ammaarah (May 21, 2005)

I've been nursing my daughter for 29 months today (yay!) and I never needed to use formula.


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## blueridgewoman (Nov 19, 2001)

Yeah, there is no WAY I will wean her until she's ready. I've worked really hard to bf and I intend to stick with it. Heck, some of the time I wish I never had to give her solids.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

When I was pregnant with DS a few friends told me to hold on to any of the free formula I could get because it was so expensive, and "everyone has to supplement" They BF'd they knew I was going to BF, but they also thought that eventually everyone would need to supplement once in a while.

When DS was 5 months old I realized they just said those things to make themselves feel better about CHOOSING to use formula. I donated the 5 or 6 cans of formula I had to a shelter, My DS never had formula, it was never needed. My DD is 6.5 months old and barring some medical emergency she will never need formula.


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## MotheringHeart (Dec 18, 2005)

Here's another nursed four babes and nary a drop of formula mommy! Ya don't need it and ya won't. If you are providing enough now, you'll provide enough in the future! I say, get some cotton for your ears and ignore those people!!!!


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## 98741 (May 17, 2006)

absolutley not. i'm very proud that no formula has ever crossed my dcs lips. i think it's awsome you just nurse on one side, most people just don't understand how the breast works.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Not only did dd never have formula. She never had a bottle. Or a pacifier.

-Angela


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## Emily12581 (Mar 4, 2006)

Nope, never. My dd never even had a bottle. People don't understand that when adding solids you are doing just that...adding more food. You aren't taking away from your feedings, so there is not much of a chance of your supply dropping just because they start solids







Your wonderful body makes as much as babe demands...trust me, I was nursing once an hour for 11 months and she was just fine, fat and content


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## blueridgewoman (Nov 19, 2001)

I really WISH I could say dd never had a bottle- that is an awesome, awesome accomplishment. Good for you guys!!!


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## ricemom3 (Jan 29, 2008)

I have to pump at work. Ds is 8 mo, starting solids and my supply is actually starting to increase a little. So tell "everyone" to leave you alone. It sounds like you are doing a great job, especially feeding on just one side. Yay for you!!


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## turtlewomyn (Jun 5, 2005)

I am a WOHM and I never had to supplement (with the exception of a couple of weeks at the beginning, but it wasn't a NEED to supplement, it was bad advice on how to deal with tongue tie and slow weight gain).

If you are only feeding from one side, that one side will compenstate and make enough for your baby.


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## neverdoingitagain (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blueridgewoman* 
I really WISH I could say dd never had a bottle- that is an awesome, awesome accomplishment. Good for you guys!!!









: I've had to use a bottle on occasion, so that pretty impressive. DD2 hasn't had a bottle, and hopefully it will stay that way


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

No way. My DS will be 8 months old on Saturday and has never had one single drop of formula and never will if I can help it. And this is after two hospitalizations (including several days in the ICU) and battling low supply off and on for months. And he weighs 23 pounds.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Mine is 17 months and she's never had any formula.

Formula is certainly not necessary for most people, not after a year, if the child and mother are both healthy, and in some cases, even when they are not. Formula is used for short and long-term health issues, when stored, pumped milk is not available (do you have any frozen?).

You could respond by telling them that you shouldn't need it as long as you both stay healthy.


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## basilisa76 (Jul 31, 2007)

First of all, your baby is not OLD, secondly, if you can breastfeed your baby there are no reasons why supplement with formula. I totally agree with what another mommy said regarding people telling you these things so they feel better about THEM supplementing.

My mom was ALWAYS like that, saying that my baby was small because I was not feeding her enough and I needed to supplement, etc. Well, my baby nursed until 15 months when she was weaned for other reasons and she is just small because I am 5 feet tall and weight 94 pounds!

You are doing great. Don't worry about what other people say! (of course I know is hard) and by the way, my daughter is now almost 20 months and she doesn't even drink cow's milk, she just eats eggs, cheese, broccoli and other foods that have lots of calcium.

Gigi


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

No, you don't have to supplement! If you DO have to, clearly you'll know - otherwise, keep nursing!


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

No I cant imagine why you would unless you couldnt nurse for some medical reason .. neither one of my BF kids had a drop of formula.


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## CBear (Aug 1, 2007)

My 18 month old was exclusively breastfed until she was six and a half months. At that time she got a couple of bites of food (usually pureed vegetables that we were having) at dinner time. When she was 8 months old we were up to two means a day. She always just had a few bites of food and that was it. She mostly enjoyed playing with her food. By the time she was a year old we were up to three meals a day of finger food and we were offering her several types of food at each meal. I never have given her formula. I started offering her cow milk when she was 13 months old only because she asked for it in her cereal when she saw me pour it into mine. I still nurse her whenever she asks to nurse. The American Association of Pediatrics says to exclusively breastfeed for six months, then continue to nurse at least a year and continue after that as long as mom and baby want to. The Canadian Association of Pediatrics, WHO, UNICEF, and the United States Surgeon General say to nurse at least two years. Our bodies are made to nurse our babies. It is extremely rare for a woman's body not to be able to fully feed her child. We would not have survived for centuries and centuries if we needed to supplement. Just feed your baby and make sure that he is gaining steady weight and has good color. Also, see if there is a local La Leche League in your area. They have great information, too.


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## Claire and Boys (Mar 27, 2007)

I have never heard of any reason why "everyone" would need to supplement at some point. Sounds to be like a formula company ploy that some people have bought into. DS is a year old and has never had a drop of formula.


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## nummies (Jun 9, 2007)

My 10 month old baby has never had a bottle let alone formula. Keep on nursing mama! No way does your babe need formula now or later.


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

If this were true...then what happened to all the babies who were born before formula was invented? Considering that we are all here, I would guess that our ancestors survived without any formula.


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## thefragile7393 (Jun 21, 2005)

Again, barring real supply issues, some sort of medical need...I don't see it either. Ds chose to start other tastes at 7 mo....at 15 mo he would take my milk from a sippy cup when I went back to work. He's still nursing a little...never had any formula.


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## amyleigh33 (Nov 2, 2006)

I don't really see why mamas are boasting that their babes have never had bottles (of BM). What difference does that make?

I never understand what magically happens at 12 months that magically babies are OK to have milk intended for baby cows instead of milk intended for baby humans? Why not 11 months? Or 14? I am totally serious.

But one more voice on the NOT TRUE My DD's 10 months and never had formula. She self feeds solids but mostly still breastfeeds. I can't imagine weaning her in two months.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Just agreeing with most of the previous posters, and adding that DD never had formula, or even a taste of cow's milk til she was past 2.
Even now, at 4 she only occasionally has even a quarter cup of cow milk.


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## TattooedMommy (Aug 11, 2006)

No! Your gut is telling you the right thing. Follow your instincts.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

nope, my DD has never had formula either. though she has had bottles. and pacifiers. and i think that is just dandy, and i'm so grateful for pumps and bottles so that she can have a bottle of my milk while i'm away doing my grad school thing.










anyway, with the one boob thing, that seems like no biggie to me. other mamas who have twins nurse them, right? so if they can nurse two babies with two boobs (average of one boob per babe), you can nurse one baby with one boob.

the boob to babe ratio is the SAME!


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## twobears (Jan 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blueridgewoman* 
You know, part of the issue is that I am feeding dd from one side exclusively and it's hard for people to believe I could nourish an older baby.

Gah, people.

My ds is 8 months old and i've been BF from one side since he was 4/5 months old. He is doing well and i've never had to supplement.

Your doing great Mamma.


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## JessBB (Apr 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amyleigh33* 
I don't really see why mamas are boasting that their babes have never had bottles (of BM). What difference does that make?

I don't see this as a boast so much as reassuring the OP that bottles are not always necessary and that if they aren't needed / wanted a baby can certainly thrive w/o ever using one.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amyleigh33* 
I don't really see why mamas are boasting that their babes have never had bottles (of BM). What difference does that make?

For me it's the same thing. Everyone said I would HAVE to pump. That ALL babies have to be able to take a bottle. I disagree.

-Angela


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Angela, the reason it's not a bad idea to pump and have a few bottles is in case of unexpected illness. Everyone told me to keep a few bags of frozen, up-to-date breastmilk in the freezer just in case, so that my daughter wouldn't have to take formula or substitutes if, God forbid, I should fall ill. Of course, no reason to train her for a bottle ahead of time, but that is one reason that many say that all moms have to pump.

Some babies will have to take a bottle, though it should be few, statistically, and if mom has normal supply, they should not have to take formula right away.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

You shouldn't need formula, even with only using one breast. I EP for my dd. When she was 16 months old I had a medical problem and one side dried up. The other side still produced 24 oz of milk a day. Before the problem that breast alone produced 50 oz of milk a day. I am now ebfing 3 month old ds, and EPing for my 28 month old. I still have milk to freeze. (both breasts are working now, though)


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## MorgansMom (May 9, 2007)

NO FORMULA!!!!! My daughter is 18mo and I still have plenty supply for her! My best friend has nursed from one side since day 1 and her lil one is 18mo and doing great! Your body knows what to do!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mahtob* 
Angela, the reason it's not a bad idea to pump and have a few bottles is in case of unexpected illness. Everyone told me to keep a few bags of frozen, up-to-date breastmilk in the freezer just in case, so that my daughter wouldn't have to take formula or substitutes if, God forbid, I should fall ill. Of course, no reason to train her for a bottle ahead of time, but that is one reason that many say that all moms have to pump.

And I disagree







Unless mom has some reason to expect impending serious illness, it's really silly to go to all that trouble for "just in case"

Just like "some" people think all moms should have formula in their emergency supplies- just in case! I disagree.

-Angela


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

The differences between keeping formula just in case and keeping breastmilk just in case are:

1. Should you ever need formula, you will be able to buy some at almost any time, any where, or borrow some.

2. Assuming you want the best you can give your child, storing formula means that you can avoid the fourth-best option for supplementing, at least for some time. The difference in quality of expressed milk and formula is huge.

Quote:

Unless mom has some reason to expect impending serious illness
This almost never happens. Serious illnesses or injuries (such as during unconsciousness after a car accident) are often unexpected. Although I would want them to try to put my daughter to my breast even if I were unconscious, just to see if that would wake me, I would also want to make sure she had as much milk as possible.

I don't have a huge stash or anything, I'm just saying, if you want to avoid formula with absolute certainty, you would do well to have a supply of EBM in the freezer.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mahtob* 
The differences between keeping formula just in case and keeping breastmilk just in case are:

1. Should you ever need formula, you will be able to buy some at almost any time, any where, or borrow some.

2. Assuming you want the best you can give your child, storing formula means that you can avoid the fourth-best option for supplementing, at least for some time. The difference in quality of expressed milk and formula is huge.

This almost never happens. Serious illnesses or injuries (such as during unconsciousness after a car accident) are often unexpected. Although I would want them to try to put my daughter to my breast even if I were unconscious, just to see if that would wake me, I would also want to make sure she had as much milk as possible.

I don't have a huge stash or anything, I'm just saying, if you want to avoid formula with absolute certainty, you would do well to have a supply of EBM in the freezer.

And in the case of anything serious enough that you would NEED to tap that supply, it will need to be a pretty big supply









I would expect my dh to hit up my nursing-mom friends if it came down to that.









-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

It's really just a difference in opinion. If *you* want to keep a store- go right ahead.









I don't think it is appropriate to tell every mother that she NEEDS to keep a store. That's all.

I also think that pumping CAN cause problems. I had oversupply issues. If I had pumped any time in the first 3 months or so it would have just made my life harder in regards to finally getting my supply evened out. Add to that my dd would not take expressed milk in ANY form and it would have been a big pain for NO benefit.

-Angela


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amyleigh33* 
I don't really see why mamas are boasting that their babes have never had bottles (of BM). What difference does that make?


Because it's also a cultural belief that every baby will "need" a bottle at some point. I don't assume that it's always a matter of boasting, but I'm sure some moms feel worthy of a pat on the back for resisting what is sometimes incredible pressure.

Of course, bottles do sometimes make a difference -- nipple confusion/preference and premature weaning are very real situations. Of course, they don't always happen when a bottle is introduced, but sometimes they do. Editing in that I forgot to consider the greater likelyhood of milk becoming contaminated during storage or by the bottle itself and the potentially dangerous plastics that bottles are made of.


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## blueridgewoman (Nov 19, 2001)

I will say that I pumped off excess at the very beginning, which I know now wasn't the best idea, but I was SO uncomfortable. When I was hospitalized for two days when dd was a week old due to a crazy mastitis infection, it was that milk (and a bit donated by my sister, and a tiny bit from SO who was nursing her too at the time) that saved us from formula feeding.

I was glad I listened to my gut on that one (something told me to pump) but I'd say my situation was reasonably rare. I think having a TINY bit of milk in the freezer is great. I am SUCH a type A personality and so freaked by what happened that I pump every day during dd's nap time and have a great freezer stash.

But I'm a stay at home mom and I never make plans that keep me away for more than a few hours (and then only for the occasional odd childcare job I take to earn some extra cash). Go figure.


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## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
And I disagree







Unless mom has some reason to expect impending serious illness, it's really silly to go to all that trouble for "just in case"

Just like "some" people think all moms should have formula in their emergency supplies- just in case! I disagree.

-Angela

My 'just in case' stash has proven very useful--to other babies! I didn't start out pumping a little extra here and there with the intention to donate but so far 3 separate moms have run into problems where my 'surplus' milk help keep their babies from having to drink formula. I am so glad I was able to be of help and I don't feel like it was silly at all.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I also keep a freezer stash for the what if's. DS doesn't take a bottle, but if I became seriously ill or died, he would obviously have to learn. So if I was hospitalized for a week ot two as of right now, we have enough EBM for him. It would be nice for him to be able to slowly transition to formula by mixing it with ebm if I were to die. Who knows what will happen.

I hear ya on the crazy mastitis. With my dd, I had mastitis and waited on the antibiotics. I then developed an abcess which I blew off, had nipple necrosis, and all kind of issues. I want to be prepared if something crazy like that happens this time.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hanno* 
My 'just in case' stash has proven very useful--to other babies! I didn't start out pumping a little extra here and there with the intention to donate but so far 3 separate moms have run into problems where my 'surplus' milk help keep their babies from having to drink formula. I am so glad I was able to be of help and I don't feel like it was silly at all.









That is FABULOUS. Kudos to all moms who donate milk.

-Angela


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amyleigh33* 
I don't really see why mamas are boasting that their babes have never had bottles (of BM). What difference does that make?

I never understand what magically happens at 12 months that magically babies are OK to have milk intended for baby cows instead of milk intended for baby humans? Why not 11 months? Or 14? I am totally serious.

Because having a kid who won't take a bottle is bloody hard work, so they need all the pats on the back!

At/around 12 months the kidneys are mature enough to deal with the concentration of cows milk.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Add to that my dd would not take expressed milk in ANY form and it would have been a big pain for NO benefit.

-Angela

Make sure you introduce the bottle between 3 and 6 weeks with the next one and you may not have the same problem.

Good luck!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
Make sure you introduce the bottle between 3 and 6 weeks with the next one and you may not have the same problem.

Good luck!

Absolutely not!

I have no intention of using bottles with this one either.

ANY artificial nipple at ANY time can cause breastfeeding problems. After what I went through with dd I'm hoping to have an uneventful breastfeeding relationship this time.

In no way is taking expressed breastmilk as important for my child as a good breastfeeding relationship.

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
Make sure you introduce the bottle between 3 and 6 weeks with the next one and you may not have the same problem.


Also, all breastfeeding friendly sources say wait until 6 weeks for bottles.

-Angela


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
Make sure you introduce the bottle between 3 and 6 weeks with the next one and you may not have the same problem.

Good luck!

That seems pretty early.

Might avoid that "problem" but I can see it giving rise to some far more serious problems.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
Make sure you introduce the bottle between 3 and 6 weeks with the next one and you may not have the same problem.


Just thought I'd add that I never said that it was a problem







It was never a "problem" at all- just the way things were.

-Angela


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

I have to agree that if ALL babies NEEDED formula, the human race would have been in a real pickle before it was invented.

However all this "bottles cause major problems" talk sure is disheartening to a former SAHM who no longer has the luxury to do so with my upcoming little one.








I'll be pumping and away from him three days a week from about eight weeks on.


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## hipmummy (May 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
I've had four children and none have ever had a drop of formula.

If you would wean her before a year, then you would have to give formula. But it doesn't sound like you're planning on doing that, and barring any sort of medical catastrophe, it's highly unlikely she'll wean herself before a year.

You're doing great, mama. Don't listen to the naysayers!









that

Ds is18 months and still about 90%, Never had a drop of formula! Babies do not NEED formula they NEED breastmilk first then if there is medical crisis then formula could be used as a tool.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breeder* 

However all this "bottles cause major problems" talk sure is disheartening to a former SAHM who no longer has the luxury to do so with my upcoming little one.







I'll be pumping and away from him three days a week from about eight weeks on.

You might be fine!! A lot of babes do fine with both.

I guess the point here is that many also dont, and if you don't have to take the risk it's worth considering that it is indeed a risk. I did hear about the 4-6 week window for introducing a bottle with my daughter, and I remember how hard nursing was in the early days and I would stare at the bright shiny bottle and fantasize.







But by the time she was 4 weeks nursing was easier and I decided to hold off. Of course at 3 or 4 months when I tried again she wouldn't take it.







Which was actually fine for us as I was not working, and looking back I'm really glad I didn't take the risk. We have had a long and really beautiful nursing relationship and I wouldn't give that up for the added convenience of the bottle.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

I'm glad yu had no problems with it, Alegna. How will Savannah feel about it next time?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calidris* 
That seems pretty early.

Might avoid that "problem" but I can see it giving rise to some far more serious problems.

It's what's recommended by lll, kellymom, etc for dyads without issues. After six weeks you're more likely to have refusal problems. And of course they can always START refusing at any age.









Can you point me to a discussion of where judicious intro of a bottle in the recommended way causes more problems than having no way to feed a baby when the mother's at work? Otherwise why do they reccomend it?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
I'm glad yu had no problems with it, Alegna. How will Savannah feel about it next time?

Not sure what you mean. How will she feel about what?

Quote:

It's what's recommended by lll, kellymom, etc for dyads without issues. After six weeks you're more likely to have refusal problems. And of course they can always START refusing at any age.









Can you point me to a discussion of where judicious intro of a bottle in the recommended way causes more problems than having no way to feed a baby when the mother's at work? Otherwise why do they reccomend it?

No one is saying not to use bottles if mom has to go back to work. I'm speaking of situations where the bottle is not *needed*

-Angela


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## Apple Girl (Nov 2, 2007)

Just wanted to chime in as one more person who never needed to supplement. DS (now 20 months) has never had formula (although he has had bottles of EBM, since I work and DH, as a SAHD, wasn't quite equipped to fill in on the nursing front). He had BM pretty much exclusively until around 6-7 months, then we slowly introduced solids, but mama milk was his main staple for at least the first 13 months.

He doesn't nurse quite as much now that my supply plummeted (/ue to pregnancy), but still occasionally when he's tired or just wants an extra cuddle. So, you can do it! Don't let all the naysayers bring you down...


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## ellymay (Aug 4, 2005)

gosh this sounds like what my dh's oma told me she was all like well if you keep on just giving her breast milk (talking about my dd2) she gonna get constipated you will have to give her formula to keep her regular OMG how freaking crazy is that!? LMBO!!!! NO you do NOT have to give formula ever unless your child sin't thriving or something like that.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Not sure what you mean. How will she feel about what?


About sharing you. Or rather, not really sharing, because you holding the new baby most of the time is HARD on a pre-schooler. And if you cannot go for an hour without having to stop what you're doing to feed the new baby she may well be upset. Being able to take her out for a couple of hours, or NOT delatch her during the night to feed the newbie might make a big difference.


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## mom2miranda (Mar 13, 2008)

I started supplementing with formula at about 8 mo because I wanted to be able to feed her in public with a bottle because I could no longer do it discretely and hated pumping, I COMPLETELY regret that. I wish I would have never given her formula. She wouldn't take a bottle at all until 8 mo and I think I just got used to the convenience. If I am ever blessed with another baby, i will never give a bottle or formula. YUCK! Don't make the mistakes I made. Don't listen to anyone but your own instincts.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
About sharing you. Or rather, not really sharing, because you holding the new baby most of the time is HARD on a pre-schooler. And if you cannot go for an hour without having to stop what you're doing to feed the new baby she may well be upset. Being able to take her out for a couple of hours, or NOT delatch her during the night to feed the newbie might make a big difference.

We will deal







A new baby means adjustments. No way I'll risk a nursing relationship because of it.

-Angela


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Angela- I did not say anywhere in this conversation that all moms needed to have a stash, or how big it should be. I suggested that formula should only be necessary when pumped milk is not available.

I can think of a gazillion- okay, at least ten- instances in which pumped milk might become necessary for a short time, and might save someone the trouble of trying to get a baby to take formula. But then, my job (former, rather) involved constantly trying to put myself in other people's shoes to help them manage risk. So, I tend to look at the world in shades of gray and degrees of risk.

Regarding the oversupply, yeah, that's why I didn't pump for the first few weeks, either. But I didn't have to. When I nursed one breast, the other one leaked into a cup. And leaked, and leaked, and leaked...


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I pumped with my first BECAUSE OF oversupply. He was drowning, I was using a very strict schedule. (They said I HAD to and I was a moron.) The SECOND that child got a bottle he was DONE nursing. I didn't have a clue how to get him back on the boob. I could NEVER get any milk while pumping, even though there was enough to feed 10.







By 4 months he was weaned. I was able to keep up pumping, and had a tiny enough stash, to keep him getting BM for 2 weeks beyond that, then he was on formula.

I can't remember what my point was, but supplementing nursing with a bottle, even with BM, is RISKY. I would need to have exhausted EVERY other option before even entertaining the thought.

I didn't make THAT mistake again.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
About sharing you. Or rather, not really sharing, because you holding the new baby most of the time is HARD on a pre-schooler. And if you cannot go for an hour without having to stop what you're doing to feed the new baby she may well be upset. Being able to take her out for a couple of hours, or NOT delatch her during the night to feed the newbie might make a big difference.

So... are you arguing that bottlefeeding is necessary or older children will be traumatized? For real?


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Or, you could look at it as setting a TERRIFIC example for the older child!









Older siblings DO sometimes have to learn to wait when there'a a babe in the house. Just a fact of life. You do the best you can but baby's needs often trump others' (including older siblings) wants.


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## blueridgewoman (Nov 19, 2001)

Or hey, alegna, here's a thought-- if you're like me and large breasted enough that you can nurse side-lying by laying on your BACK with the child latched on to you on the side, you can nurse both children at once without even getting up.







One kid on either side of you.









Sorry, I have a weird sense of humor. But anyway, I think that generally, EN kids are well adjusted and attached children. I definitely get the impression that alegna's daughter falls into that category, and I'm sure that given how thoughtful and committed alegna is, she'll make it work. I don't think a new baby and sharing the breast has to be a traumatic adjustment.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blueridgewoman* 
Or hey, alegna, here's a thought-- if you're like me and large breasted enough that you can nurse side-lying by laying on your BACK with the child latched on to you on the side, you can nurse both children at once without even getting up.







One kid on either side of you.









Sorry, I have a weird sense of humor. But anyway, I think that generally, EN kids are well adjusted and attached children. I definitely get the impression that alegna's daughter falls into that category, and I'm sure that given how thoughtful and committed alegna is, she'll make it work. I don't think a new baby and sharing the breast has to be a traumatic adjustment.











Not quite THAT big boobed.... couldn't nurse on my back until dd could hold herself up a bit- but creates a fun picture.

Savannah will already tell you all about how she's going to share the "moo"

She knows that babies need the moo a LOT and she might not get it as much as she wants. She knows that babies cry and fuss and can make life hard sometimes.

She still can't wait
















-Angela


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Well I don't think anyone's suggesting introducing a bottle except under very extenuating circumstances, rmzbm. I certainly am not. I was suggesting keeping a stash of breastmilk in the freezer so that in some extenuating circumstance, it could be used instead of formula, not that the mother introduce bottles!

I certainly never let her use bottles (until she was one and tried to steal the other kids' bottles because she liked them... so I gave her one, she didn't want it, she wanted to steal theirs).


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 









Not quite THAT big boobed.... couldn't nurse on my back until dd could hold herself up a bit- but creates a fun picture.

Savannah will already tell you all about how she's going to share the "moo"

She knows that babies need the moo a LOT and she might not get it as much as she wants. She knows that babies cry and fuss and can make life hard sometimes.

She still can't wait
















-Angela









She sounds like mine. Originally my DD was petitioning for the baby to drink from a bottle... yeah, the newborn is going to get formula while the 4 year old has the boobage to herself, what is wrong with this picture?

Now she is cool with sharing, although she wants to have one side and the baby have the other. I've talked to her about how it doesn't work that way, she will have to share both, but my body will make a lot of rich milk once the baby comes. That seemed a good compensation for sharing to her!

We shall see how tandeming goes... and like you, PP, I have the big boobage and yeah once the babe grows a little I can probably just about nurse both at once laying on my back.







Or, I can lay semi on my side to nurse the babe and DD can lean over me.


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
So... are you arguing that bottlefeeding is necessary or older children will be traumatized? For real?

Yeah... I'm very surprised to read such comments on MDC. My son has never taken a bottle and DD coped just fine







... it wasn't even something I considered.


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## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

My older daughter had major issues with me breastfeeding another child, but then DD1 had had a traumatic birth, she was only 18months when DD2 was born and DD1 had been quite ill and was still getting better....... It was hard work but we managed to get through it without bottles, without me expressing and without formula.

Eventually, they did get to a point where they would hold hands as I breastfed them both......... They don't hate each other. Sure it was hard but we got through it ok.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mahtob* 
Some babies will have to take a bottle, though it should be few, statistically, and if mom has normal supply, they should not have to take formula right away.

i would just like to point out that, for moms who plan to WOH at any point during their child's first year, taking a bottle might be very useful if not necessary.

i had to be away from DD for a few hours at a time, a couple times a week, starting at 3.5 months and we worked very hard from 2 weeks on to get me pumping regularly and her taking a bottle. it took several different bottle nipples, and a lot of experimenting with bottlenursing positions, but she did finally take a bottle--and if she had not, i don't know how i would've done my school stuff and made a living. she needed to nurse or get a bottle every 90 minutes for a long time, and i just couldn't work around that!

so to say, "statistically it's not likely they'll need a bottle"--this really only applies to SAHMs.

also, i think some people are overstating the risks of bottles. many, many babies take bottles and breastfeed and switch back and forth easily. that doesn't mean problems like nipple preference can't arise, but for many of us, they simply don't. and if you have no choice but to give bottles sometimes (i guess you could cup feed or finger feed, but i'm not sure how practical that would be at a daycare, for example), it doesn't much help to dwell on the potential disasters a bottle could cause. introduced at the right time, after nursing is well-established (which for us was 2 weeks--seriously), a bottle is probably going to be just fine with your baby and very helpful for you if you ever plan to need to be away for a few hours, or go back to work.

now back to your regularly scheduled thread!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
also, i think some people are overstating the risks of bottles. many, many babies take bottles and breastfeed and switch back and forth easily. that doesn't mean problems like nipple preference can't arise, but for many of us, they simply don't. and if you have no choice but to give bottles sometimes (i guess you could cup feed or finger feed, but i'm not sure how practical that would be at a daycare, for example), it doesn't much help to dwell on the potential disasters a bottle could cause. introduced at the right time, after nursing is well-established (which for us was 2 weeks--seriously), a bottle is probably going to be just fine with your baby and very helpful for you if you ever plan to need to be away for a few hours, or go back to work.

now back to your regularly scheduled thread!









I think that in general society goes the other way. It is ASSUMED that bottles will be used and it will be fine.

Bottles CAN be a problem to any breastfeeding relationship at any time. Period. Any artificial nipple can. They may not be. For many babies it's never a problem.

BUT they CAN be a problem. Personally I feel that *if* they can be avoided, they should. Obviously if mom has to work and the baby has to be in daycare, bottles will be a fact of life.

-Angela


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I think that in general society goes the other way. It is ASSUMED that bottles will be used and it will be fine.

Bottles CAN be a problem to any breastfeeding relationship at any time. Period. Any artificial nipple can. They may not be. For many babies it's never a problem.

BUT they CAN be a problem. Personally I feel that *if* they can be avoided, they should. Obviously if mom has to work and the baby has to be in daycare, bottles will be a fact of life.

-Angela









: And I think many UNDERstate the risk. Many mothers assume baby will go back and forth easily, and what happens is weaning.







Going along with the quoted post...if they can be avoided they really should.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I think it's one of those risks that seems overstated if you've never had an issue, and sadly understated when you're the one with a baby with nipple confusion. As someone who has worked with moms trying to get the baby back on the breast, I personally would never introduce an artificial nipple before 4-6 weeks, depending on supply, baby's first few weeks of nursing, and baby's temperment. And even then, I would only do it if I absolutely had to (such as the example of mom going back to work) and not just to see if I could.


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## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

I think it needs to be pointed out that a bottle is not the only alternate means of drinking. I had my son drink water and surplus (like if I only pumped an ounce) breastmilk at just weeks old from a regular cup. Now at 11 months, he can use a cup pretty well on his own.


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## Ben's Mama (Feb 28, 2008)

I completely agree...barring a medical necessity there is no need for formula. If it was necessary how did the hundreds of generations before the invention of formula survive and thrive!? Imho formula is pushed by many pediatricians for financial reasons and misinformation (very similar to vaccinations!).

My DS is almost 7 months and hasn't had any formula. He is perfectly healthy. I even tried starting pureed foods at 6 months but he ended up with some serious gas and tummy aches. So we've cut out the solids probably until he has some teeth to chew with. I've even had people stop me in the stores and tell me how cute my little man is and then add how healthy he looks! If many of them knew that he'd never had a bite of rice cereal and was still bf they'd probably faint!


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
We will deal







A new baby means adjustments. No way I'll risk a nursing relationship because of it.

-Angela

But Angela, we're not talking about risking a nursing relationship, we're talking about an occasional bottle.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hanno* 
I think it needs to be pointed out that a bottle is not the only alternate means of drinking. I had my son drink water and surplus (like if I only pumped an ounce) breastmilk at just weeks old from a regular cup. Now at 11 months, he can use a cup pretty well on his own.

Hanno, for future reference, it's very much not recommended to feed babies who aren't on solids water. It can make them very sick.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
But Angela, we're not talking about risking a nursing relationship, we're talking about an occasional bottle.

...which can be a risk to a nursing relationship.

-Angela


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
...which can be a risk to a nursing relationship.

-Angela

Yup...DD got 3 bottles of EBM when she was kidnapped to the NICU...we never did get her on the breast successfully. Having to end up exclusively pumping for 4 months until we at least got her on part time was a nightmare I wouldn't wish on anybody.


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## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
Hanno, for future reference, it's very much not recommended to feed babies who aren't on solids water. It can make them very sick.

Can I have some sources on that?
I'm going to have to disagree with your expertise here, wannabe.
I'm talking less than an ounce. Gripe water has water, herbal tea has water, medecines have water and even breastmilk has water!


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
But Angela, we're not talking about risking a nursing relationship, we're talking about an occasional bottle.

Well but it depends on the baby though, and you have to find the balance between the 'occasional bottle' that the baby has the skill to take (many bf babies who dont have the bottle intro'ed early wont take the bottle) vs. the risk that the babe will prefer the bottle and not take the breast. So it's not as easy as 'oh we can give an occasional bottle and the babe will definitely take it and it definitely wont risk nursing.'

I wish it were that easy!


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Well but it depends on the baby though, and you have to find the balance between the 'occasional bottle' that the baby has the skill to take (many bf babies who dont have the bottle intro'ed early wont take the bottle) vs. the risk that the babe will prefer the bottle and not take the breast. So it's not as easy as 'oh we can give an occasional bottle and the babe will definitely take it and it definitely wont risk nursing.'

I wish it were that easy!

yeah, i know that if we had not intro'd the bottle early, there is no WAY in hades DD would've ever taken a bottle. it was hard enough as it was--she was iffy from about 2-3 months with it, and we started at 2 weeks.

i guess i did a dumb thing intro'ing the bottle at 2 weeks, but an LC who had worked with us said it should be fine, and it was. we did about a bottle a week from 2 weeks on. so i guess it worked out. she was such a great nurser from minute 1 that i have never, ever worried she would wean because of a bottle or two. i just don't think so.

so i agree, it comes down to the baby and the mom's needs. if your baby is a great nurser, and you know you're gonna have to do bottles, then you just start them when you feel comfortable.

i guess there's also a difference between a baby who gets a few bottles a week or month and one who gets several a day...


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## merry-mary (Aug 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blueridgewoman* 
Everyone keeps saying that eventually, when dd is older, I'll have to supplement with formula while she's eating solids. I'm very opposed to formula (sorry...I know that there are absolutely cases where its necessary, etc) and I really really don't want her to get a single drop. Do I have to eventually supplement, or if I practice CLW and she goes for a few years, is that okay?

I guess what I'm asking is, what's the cutoff age where, if she should wean herself, do I not have to supplement her?

The answer, as I think everyone has pointed out, is no! You do not need to supplement. I think this "advice" comes from the misperception that once you introduce solids, your milk supply will dwindle, which will force you to supplement with formula. As long as breastmilk continues to provide the majority of baby's diet for that first year and as long as you continue to offer the breast often (however often baby eats) your supply should keep up with baby's needs.

At the age of one, most doctors will say it's OK to introduce cow's milk, so no formula is needed. That is IF you decide to go that route. You can continue nursing for as long as you'd like - you don't _need_ to offer cow's milk, just as you won't _need_ to supplement with formula.

As for the bottle debate/discussion - it all depends on your situation! I work outside the home part-time, so bottles were an absolute necessity: DS needed to learn to take one, and I needed to get myself on a good pumping schedule. I offered the first bottle at 3 weeks and continued offering one on a semi-regular basis (probably a few times per week) until I returned to work when DS was about 7 months old. It took awhile before DS was OK with the bottle: we had a few weeks where he didn't want much to do with it. Persistency and consistency in offering it eventually paid off. AND I made sure to pump when my DH offered the bottle of EBM.

Good luck! And ignore those who say you'll have to supplement. Despite the fact that I worked 4 days a week, DS never once had formula.


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
i would just like to point out that, for moms who plan to WOH at any point during their child's first year, taking a bottle might be very useful if not necessary.

i had to be away from DD for a few hours at a time, a couple times a week, starting at 3.5 months and we worked very hard from 2 weeks on to get me pumping regularly and her taking a bottle. it took several different bottle nipples, and a lot of experimenting with bottlenursing positions, but she did finally take a bottle--and if she had not, i don't know how i would've done my school stuff and made a living. she needed to nurse or get a bottle every 90 minutes for a long time, and i just couldn't work around that!

so to say, "statistically it's not likely they'll need a bottle"--this really only applies to SAHMs.

Of course, I was only referring to situations where there's no need for mum to be away from the baby for an extended period of time. There seems to be an assumption in our society that ALL babies need to learn how to take a bottle and that just isn't the case.


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## Rhannie (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
Can you point me to a discussion of where judicious intro of a bottle in the recommended way causes more problems than having no way to feed a baby when the mother's at work? Otherwise why do they reccomend it?

Just because a baby doesn't take a bottle, doesn't mean there is no way to feed them when the mother is absent. Cup and spoon feeding are very viable ways of feeding infants at any age--my DD had her first drink (BM) from a cup at 3 days old. We didn't need to use a cup often (maybe 4 times before she was 6 months old and after that she would play with the cup at the dinner table), but she never had anything resembling a bottle either.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hanno* 
Can I have some sources on that?
I'm going to have to disagree with your expertise here, wannabe.
I'm talking less than an ounce. Gripe water has water, herbal tea has water, medecines have water and even breastmilk has water!

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/so...aby-water.html
http://parenting.ivillage.com/newbor...,,441n,00.html

I think you'll find that breastmilk has stuff other than water in it, too.

Quote:

Just because a baby doesn't take a bottle, doesn't mean there is no way to feed them when the mother is absent. Cup and spoon feeding are very viable ways of feeding infants at any age
I wouldn't call spoon feeding BM to a five month old very viable. Doable, but not viable.

Quote:

DD got 3 bottles of EBM when she was kidnapped to the NICU...we never did get her on the breast successfully. Having to end up exclusively pumping for 4 months until we at least got her on part time was a nightmare I wouldn't wish on anybody.
Sure, but where has anyone here or anyone who knows anything about breastfeeding ever said that giving a bottle to a baby under three weeks is anything but madness? I feel your pain, but please do some reading.

Quote:

..which can be a risk to a nursing relationship.

-Angela
for an inattentive and unknowledgable parent, yes.


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## hanno (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/so...aby-water.html
http://parenting.ivillage.com/newbor...,,441n,00.html

Try reading your own links. The first one says that sips are fine and fun.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
for an inattentive and unknowledgable parent, yes.

No, for any nursing pair. There are moms here who have done "just an occasional bottle" and had trouble.

Please don't insult them by calling them inattentive or "unknowledgeable." They are following advice from people like you who suggest as long as it's just occasional it won't cause any problems.

-Angela


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannabe
But Angela, we're not talking about risking a nursing relationship, we're talking about an occasional bottle.

Quote:

..which can be a risk to a nursing relationship.

-Angela
for an inattentive and unknowledgable parent, yes.

I find your post really insulting.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *macca* 
There seems to be an assumption in our society that ALL babies need to learn how to take a bottle and that just isn't the case.

conversely, there seems to be an assumption at MDC that babies won't need bottles, so don't bother introducing one. that's not the case, either.

i don't know how to multi-quote, but yeah, spoonfeeding a baby 6 ounces of EBM is not a viable option. frustrating for the baby, i bet, and NO daycare is gonna do that when they have other children who need to be cared for.

i am very glad DD takes a bottle. if she didn't, my life would be a whole lot harder.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
conversely, there seems to be an assumption at MDC that babies won't need bottles, so don't bother introducing one. that's not the case, either.

i don't know how to multi-quote, but yeah, spoonfeeding a baby 6 ounces of EBM is not a viable option. frustrating for the baby, i bet, and NO daycare is gonna do that when they have other children who need to be cared for.

i am very glad DD takes a bottle. if she didn't, my life would be a whole lot harder.

I get what you are saying if a mom is unable to BF. But it has been said a few times in this thread already, we are not talking about a mom who has to leave their baby. When a mom and baby can be together, then no a baby does not need a bottle.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
I find your post really insulting.

ITA. Now I think there is or may be a connection between a less experienced mother and nipple confusion resulting from bottlefeeding. Is that fair to say? I am considering using bottles occasionally for my newborn (I may do part time school) and I do feel like it will be somewhat less of a risk because I am experienced and would know if an issue was developing. Not sure if this is wishful thinking though, and I think it is a serious overstatement to say that a parent is 'inattentive and inexperienced' if their child develops nipple confusion from switching btw. breast and bottle. I think bottles need to be used with caution by everyone.


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
I get what you are saying if a mom is unable to BF. But it has been said a few times in this thread already, we are not talking about a mom who has to leave their baby. When a mom and baby can be together, then no a baby does not need a bottle.

but that's just the thing...generally the condition "assuming the mom can be around her baby all the time (i.e. doesn't work)" isn't usually even stated in threads like this. it's just the default assumption that everyone SAH with her baby. and more women work than don't work (in the real world, not sure about this board)! so from the get-go, this idea that "not all babies need a bottle" excludes a huge portion of the population, whose babies for all intents and purposes, will HAVE to get bottles unless some caregiver is willing to spoonfeed them breastmilk every day for a year.

full-time working women almost always have to use bottles. and part-time working moms (like me) often do, too.

i'll even go one step further and say that, apart from the working or staying at home question, some women just want their babies to be able to take bottles so they can have the option of getting away for a couple hours. IMO a mom who wants to be able to go on a date with her partner, or to work out by herself for a few hours, sometime in the first YEAR of her child's life doesn't need to beat herself up over it on the very small chance that intro'ing a bottle at an appropriate age and stage is going to ruin her nursing relationship! sorry, but i think that's ridiculous!


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
for an inattentive and unknowledgable parent, yes.

WOW, you really are rich. Must be great to be you though.







My oldest weaned at 4 mos. due to bottles...I was unknowledgable, yeah...but inattentive? Yeah, I call pumping nonstop while sobbing "What have I done to him" to qualify. I did what I could, and you're solution is that I should have been more "attentive?" Go away, seriously.







:


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I hear what you are saying, readytobedone, but I disagree with you that it's a 'very small chance' that the nursing relationship will be ruined. I think it's a pretty big chance, or at least a medium chance. Women working for pay has been one of the biggest factors that has provided a market for bottles and infant formula. Women working also contributes to the decline in numbers of mama/baby dyads who are able to sustain a nursing relationship. I just did a paper about this so I know what I am saying is accurate.

Yes women often have to work. Yes we need to use bottles if we do. And yes it is a risk, a real risk. We can mitigate the risk somewhat (or maybe a lot) by using bottles carefully and knowledgeably, but that doesn't take the risk away or make it 'very small' IMO.


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

No offense, but I think there is a lack of positive bottlefeeding/nursing stories at MDC. So, I will share one.

My first dd was born 2 weeks early and my milk did not come in for several days. She was already very small and skinny and by day 2 she was frantic. Plus, the stupid OB gave me a pain pill that made dd sleepy. So, we took her to the ped as she was not nursing much, sleeping a lot, and seemed frantic when awake. He recommended supplementing with formula. He knew I wanted to nurse and he set it up so that nursing was not compromised but also so dd would get some food. I nursed her first, every 2 hours, and then dh gave her a bottle of formula. My milk came in about day 5 and from then on, she drank more and more milk and less and less formula. By the end of 2 weeks (more or less) she as drinking no formula and had gained weight and my boobs were full. We quit the bottles and never looked back. She nursed for 30 mos and never took a bottle again.

I have another friend who gave her ds a bottle of EBF a day starting when he was a few weeks old until he weaned to a cup. She wanted her dh to be able to feed the son. She also nursed him for 30 mos.

I have another friend who nursed her dd for 2 years. He husband starting giving their dd a bottle of formula at night when she was a few mos old. It did not affect their breastfeeding relationship at all.

It can affect the breastfeeding relationship to give a bottle or pacifier but it does not have to. Personally, I believe nipple confusion is very, very rare. Babies are smart. They know the difference between the soft, warm, real mama's nipple and the fake ones.


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

Also, wanted to point out that plenty of working moms nurse for many months, even years, with the help of bottles. So again, bottles are not guaranteed to threaten the breastfeeding relationship and to say so is needlessly alarmist, I believe.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delphiniumpansy* 
Also, wanted to point out that plenty of working moms nurse for many months, even years, with the help of bottles. So again, bottles are not guaranteed to threaten the breastfeeding relationship and to say so is needlessly alarmist, I believe.

I do not see where anyone has said that they are "guaranteed" to threaten a relationship. It *IS* a risk. Period.

-Angela


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I do not see where anyone has said that they are "guaranteed" to threaten a relationship. It *IS* a risk. Period.

-Angela

And some people have to use bottles. Period. And for many bottles are no big deal. Period. So, to imply that using a bottle is going to threaten the breastfeeding relationship is like saying you should not ride in or drive a car because it can threaten your life. It is needlessly alarmist. Period.

So, in sum, if you use a bottle carefully and not too often, it will not threaten the breastfeeding relationship. Therefore, it is needlessly alarmists to constantly tell moms they should never use a bottle. Plenty of breastfeeding moms give their babies bottle with no problems.

kellymom has some great bottle feeding advice

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/bottle-feeding.html


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Funny how a question that required a one word answer (No) can spawn 100+ responses.

Only at MDC


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calidris* 
Funny how a question that required a one word answer (No) can spawn 100+ responses.

Only at MDC









MDC

Mothers
Digress
Constantly


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delphiniumpansy* 

So, in sum, if you use a bottle carefully and not too often, it will not threaten the breastfeeding relationship.

VERY wrong! It CAN. Saying it "will not" is totally speculative and dismissive. IT CAN. It did with MY DS. Oh wait, that's cuz I was inattentive...


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## davi (Jan 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blueridgewoman* 
You know, part of the issue is that I am feeding dd from one side exclusively and it's hard for people to believe I could nourish an older baby.

Gah, people.

My dd2 is 18 months old & we have nursed from only one breast the entire time. I have had to have a number of surgeries on my other breast beginning while I was 36 weeks pregnant with this babe. It culminated in my having to undergo general anesthesia for major surgewry about 9 months ago & I was fortunate enough to have a generous mama (hanno







) give me PLENTY of pumped milk to get through my surgery & recovery.

It IS a challenge sometimes to only have 1 breast to nurse your babe from, but it CAN be done.









Good Luck to you mama! It is a struggle worth winning.


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## ~Stephanie~ (Oct 15, 2007)

I am nursing baby #4 and none of my kiddos have ever had a drop of formula. There is no need to supplement with formula. That would only make your supply drop.


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## prettypixels (Apr 13, 2006)

Well my baby takes most of her milk from bottles, because of my ridiculous supply. But she does still nurse and we are almost 15 months out! So it can be done. I was heartbroken when I had to intro bottles, due in large part to attitudes that proclaim it A FACT that introducing a bottle WILL WITHOUT FAIL destroy a breastfeeding relationship. I think that attitude can be very hurtful to moms, and there are lots more positive ways to help moms who need, for whatever reason, to have baby accept both bottle and breast.

I don't think wannabe's post was insulting at all. Clearly she meant inattentive and/OR unknowledgable. There are lots of well-intentioned but uninformed moms whose breastfeeding relationships are destroyed due to either lack of info or misinformation. I don't think anyone here can dispute that.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prettypixels* 
attitudes that proclaim it A FACT that introducing a bottle WILL WITHOUT FAIL destroy a breastfeeding relationship.

None HERE said that.

But it's too late when the damage is done, so warnings should go out.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prettypixels* 
There are lots of well-intentioned but uninformed moms whose breastfeeding relationships are destroyed due to either lack of info or misinformation. I don't think anyone here can dispute that.

I will agree that there are lots of breastfeeding relationships ruined due to misinformation. Misinformation like the idea that if done *just right* introducing a bottle is ALWAYS safe and never a risk.

Any artificial nipple at any time is a risk.

It is often no problem.

But it's still a risk.

-Angela


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delphiniumpansy* 
Also, wanted to point out that plenty of working moms nurse for many months, even years, with the help of bottles. So again, bottles are not guaranteed to threaten the breastfeeding relationship and to say so is needlessly alarmist, I believe.

Alarmist pretty much sums it up.

Two things spring to my mind on this:

First, I personally know way, way more babies who refuse bottles than those who got a bottle too early and refused to nurse. Mine among them. Nervous about the stories of nipple confusion, I waited too long. I see that "pumping and crying about what I've done" story and raise it a "listening to my child cry as the sitter tried to get her to take a bottle."

Second, I also know women who, knowing they were going back to work, decided that nursing/pumping wasn't worth it, _because_ they'd heard all the alarmist stories about how breastfed babies won't take the bottle at all. "He'll need to take a bottle when I go back to work, and they say breastfed babies won't take bottles."

The all-or-nothing tactic isn't very helpful for the many, many women who know that they cannot rely on nothing but personally being the only one who can feed their child, and only from the breast, on demand, for a year.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
VERY wrong! It CAN. Saying it "will not" is totally speculative and dismissive. IT CAN. It did with MY DS. Oh wait, that's cuz I was inattentive...

She said "will not when done carefully".

And yes, you were probably inattentive not to notice the beginnings of a problem. Easy to do, why are you so offended.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
She said "will not when done carefully".

And yes, you were probably inattentive not to notice the beginnings of a problem. Easy to do, why are you so offended.

Yeah, I noticed, thanks...the problem was I didn't know what the hell to do. And, it CAN, even if done carefully. And, yes, I am HIGHLY offended.


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Alarmist pretty much sums it up.

First, I personally know way, way more babies who refuse bottles than those who got a bottle too early and refused to nurse.

The all-or-nothing tactic isn't very helpful for the many, many women who know that they cannot rely on nothing but personally being the only one who can feed their child, and only from the breast, on demand, for a year.

I agree with all of this including having babies who will not take bottles.

We need more acceptance and we need to offer more flexibility if we want to make headway towards becoming a breastfeeding culture. Many women do not breastfeed at all or for very long because of negative attitudes towards flexibility. They see breastfeeding as an all or nothing choice when it does not have to be.

One does not have to offer any supplementation but if one chooses to it is not all that risky. Yes, in the scheme of things it is a risk, meaning it is not unrisky. But that does not equate to it being dangerous. As with pacifiers, most babies are just fine and totally know the difference between a real and a fake nipple.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Closed pending review.


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