# What would you do if you saw kids left in a car?



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Does it matter how old the kids are? How many kids there are? What ages the kid/s are? Where the car is parked? What the weather is like?

For me, I would do nothing if the kids were old enough to get out of the car themselves. I'd probably wait in my car and watch to make sure someone came out soon if there were a baby or toddler left in a car, unless it was warm or parked in the sun, in which case I'd call 911.

I do leave my kids in the car for very short trips where I can park within visual distance, and only if both kids are there, because the 11-year-old can easily get herself and the younger one out of the car if it were to overheat. And never in the summer or if the car is parked in the sun.

I don't leave the younger one (4) alone in the car because she can't get out of her car seat alone (she's still in a convertible seat and the button is hard to press, which is good in most situations but not if she had to escape.) Also, even if she could get out of her seat, she'd probably get scared in the car alone.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

I am obligated as a health care worker to call 911 if I see a child alone in the car. In our state it is illegal no matter what time of year. However once they reach a certain age of being a tween or teen, the lines would be harder to draw on whether it was appropriate or not. I personally would not leave my children in the car younger than age 12-14 because someone could still grab them and take them away. It's very easy to break into a car, esp if the windows are partially down. I would never leave any child younger than age 12-14 in the car, even if they were being watched by older siblings. It's just easier to avoid CPS involvement by not leaving your kids in the car.


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## chel (Jul 24, 2004)

Depends on age, weather, and area (large mall parking lot vs in front of small store).

Most preteens in my area bike to local shops and school. If I would let my kid bike there, I would let her sit in the car.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I've actually called the police once on a child being left alone in a car. It was an infant in the Whole Foods parking lot. First I hung around the car for 15-20 minutes, then I called the non-emergency police number for my city. They sent someone out (another 15-20 minutes) any only then did the mom finally come out. She said she was gone, "just a couple minutes" but that was simply untrue.

I do leave my kids (11 & 14) alone in the car at times, but I also let them go to the park themselves, walk to the bus stop themselves, etc... I do not leave the car running because that is illegal in our state.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *USAmma*
> 
> I am obligated as a health care worker to call 911 if I see a child alone in the car. In our state it is illegal no matter what time of year. However once they reach a certain age of being a tween or teen, the lines would be harder to draw on whether it was appropriate or not. I personally would not leave my children in the car younger than age 12-14 because someone could still grab them and take them away. It's very easy to break into a car, esp if the windows are partially down. I would never leave any child younger than age 12-14 in the car, even if they were being watched by older siblings. It's just easier to avoid CPS involvement by not leaving your kids in the car.


I'm not personally worried about someone breaking into my car to take my children away. That's really rare, and it's less rare for children to get away in a parking lot and get run over. I think as far as a risk assessment goes, for me it's so much more likely that they'd get run over in the parking lot than stolen out of the car, that I'd prefer them to be in the car as far as that goes. I'm more worried about getting trapped in the car and overheating, or getting scared.

I'm also not personally worried about CPS being concerned because a pre-teen was alone, or even both of my kids were alone, in the car. I don't think that's at all likely.

I am much more concerned with babies and toddlers. Especially babies because people honestly forget them in the car often enough, and if the baby isn't on your radar, you aren't thinking about weather or how long you're away or anything like that.


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## michelleepotter (Apr 8, 2013)

I have no problem leaving my kids in the car if they are old enough to get out themselves, or if it's *really* going to be just a second (like paying for gas). If I saw a young child -- too young to get themselves out of the car if they were overheating -- left in a car that wasn't in, say, a gas station parking lot, I'd definitely be concerned. It doesn't take that long for a small child to overheat in a confined space, especially in this climate. Still, I'd look around for a parent before calling the cops.

I am not even the slightest bit concerned about my child being kidnapped from the car, as that is just about the most unlikely scenario I can think of, short of a meteor falling on the car. A child is literally ten times more likely to be struck by lightning than kidnapped by a stranger.


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

About 12 years ago I walked out of the hospital where I walked at 11pm and saw a baby (about 6mo) alone in a car. No sign of any adults. The car was unlocked so I opened the door to take the baby out and found that there was an older child (7-8yo) hiding in the middle seat, crying because she was scared. I took them both into ED, which is what is planned to do with the baby. I was going to give them to the triage nurse but their mother approached me as I was talking to the triage nurse. She claimed she was just going back to get them but she had just been sitting I'm the waiting room when I walked in so I doubt it. I think she'd planned to leave them there until she was finished.


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## Tahpenes (Jun 2, 2006)

We've found young kids left alone in cars a number of times. So far it's always been at a business establishment, so typically my husband has gone in to notify the business's personnel while I waited out by the car. Everywhere we've done this (grocery store, strip mall), an employee came out, confirmed the presence of a child in the car, and called 911. It seems like most of the businesses had strict policies about what to do with this kind of situation. After hearing the horrible stories of parents who accidentally left their child in a car and came back to find tragedy, I definitely do not play around with this kind of thing. I do worry sometimes about the possibility of getting a parent in trouble with CPS or something, but given the potential consequences of a child left alone I think it's worth it.


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## jmarroq (Jul 2, 2008)

I had really bad back problems after I had my son, but even when I was feeling OK, I still left my son in the car sometimes. I never went into big box stores, etc. but I would run in quickly to a smaller store if I could get parking just out front. I honestly thought people did this all the time. I had seen my husband do it a couple of times and that sealed it...it must be OK! I also had PPD, and when I heard another mom say that you shouldn't leave kids in the car during a random conversation, I thought "yeah, right...who can honestly say they don't do this sometimes?"...not realizing that a mother with a natural healthy bond with an infant will actually go through the trouble of unbuckling the sleeping infant 10 times a day while doing errands, and unfold that stroller every time, and do errands with screaming child!!! Obviously, I had no help with my baby. My husband wasn't around and I had no friends or family nearby.

I didn't grow up in the south, so I never realized just how hot it gets and how quickly until I heard a few news stories years later. I thought it was only the people who forgot their kids who had tragedies...but it turns out sometimes people thought it was OK to leave the kids for an hour, not realizing how hot it got!

I got discovered leaving the kids a couple of times, and that's what it took to finally hit me that it really was a bad idea. Here's what happened:

I left my daughter in her car seat for a moment...car locked, windows up, not running. She was probably about 2 years old, but she was very small and completely bald for a long time and had very little hair until she was about 3, so she looked like an infant. I was returning my cart to the cart rack in the grocery store parking lot. The cart rack is right next to the book drop for library books, so I took the book with me....but the book drop was full, so I ran into the library (which is a very small annex library, right next to the book drop) and personally handed the book to the clerk who was just a few feet inside the door, and told her the book drop was full. She checked the book in. There was no wait. I walked out and there was a very angry woman waiting for me at my car. I explained that I just went to return my cart (literally a few steps away...the whole process couldn't have taken more than 2 minutes. She must have been stalking me from the moment I went to return the cart!). The only time my car was out of my sight was when I turned my back to hand the book to the clerk. The woman was threatening to call the police on me too. I left the parking lot, and drove about a mile down the road to go to the pet store and I see a cop driving slowly behind me in the parking lot. I think she must have known a cop and told him to scare me, because this was way too fast! He followed me for a minute or two and left. I thought this was overboard on the one hand (you mean to tell me everyone carries their child with them when returning a cart to a cart rack in the rain??) but on the other hand, I am glad she did this....I needed a wake up call!

Another time, my son was about 6 and my daughter was about 2 and I went to put some 35 mm film into the film drop at the pharmacy. I got the spot right by the door. I ran in, and the film was too big to fit in the box! I think it was an entire camera from a wedding or something. There was a line of a two or three people in front of me...I was contemplating whether to wait, come back later or leave the film on the counter with the form filled out while cutting the line, saying "here you go". As I'm standing there, I see a friend from playgroup shopping with her mom. First thing out of her mouth "where's your daughter?" So humiliating. Bad mom of the year award, once again! I just said "oh my goodness I didn't realize there would be a line! I just came to drop off this film...guess I will need to come back". She walked out of the store with me, and there are my two kids in the car! UGGHH! I am sure all the moms think I am a big dummy now. Small town too. Never did hear back from them... another wake up call!

My son is 10 and can go places by himself, so I will on rare occasions leave him for a moment (like when I pick his sister up scouts)...but if it is dark or an area I am not sure about, he is dragged with me!


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## dalia (Sep 3, 2007)

It would depend on the situation as far as someone else's kids in the car. If it was hot or really cold I would definitely call the police. Even if the weather was okay but they were left in a mall or big box store parking lot I might go and tell an employee. But only if the children were very young (babies, toddlers).

I am not worried about someone kidnapping my kid from the car. I have more of a chance to win the lottery! There was an incident in my town where some folks stole a van parked outside a grocery store and there was a baby inside. They actually didn't realize a baby was inside and kind of freaked out and returned the van. The lady actually was just running in the store but she left the keys in the van. Oops. I felt sorry for her. She was irresponsible but she didn't want her baby to be stolen!


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

I personally know of two children who have come into our ER after being hit by a car in a parking lot. :-( This one died in our ER and I remember the nurses who took care of him being traumatized by the mom's wailing.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Child-run-over-killed-in-parking-lot-of-West-Phoenix-Walmart-135316253.html

Also one case of a child being snatched out of her mom's car. I can't find the one in our local paper right now, but she was waiting in the car in front of her mom's friend's house and was taken from the car.

Here's a toddler and four year old taken from parked car:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/03/missouri-police-searching-for-kidnapped-toddler-harmony-blue/

Here's another one-- I have seen several of these stories where the car was stolen and the thief knowingly or unknowingly took the baby with the stolen car.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20130205/fordham/abducted-baby-girl-found-safe-stolen-car-bronx

You never think it can happen to you until it does.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I don't know what I'd do, as it would depend on many variables - weather, age of the children, how many children, how they were behaving (eg. if they were crawling around the car and flicking switches), whether there were keys in the vehicle, etc. etc. etc.


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## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

This is the best part about having a 12 year old, I can just send him into the store 

I would stay close and keep an eye on the car. If something looked off or there was something dangerous I'd call the police. But overall I'd mind my own business and just keep a watchful eye. People here leave their kids in the car all the time, it's a small town and very safe. I have no issue running into the gas station, cleaners, library, bank with my 7 year old in the car. It's locked and the odds of something happening are slim to none. I tend not to be a worrier about things that might, maybe, if 400 things go wrong, could happen.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

I remember being left in the car sometimes when I was elementary school aged. Never for a long time, typically for a few minutes for my mom to run into a store to get something. I think if the kid could easily get out by themself and you trust them not to just take off on their own for the heck of it and get run over, that would be okay. If I saw somebody else had left an 8 or 9 year old or older in the car, I wouldn't worry too much.

If I saw a kid left in a car, and they weren't old enough to meet this standard, I would keep an eye on them for a few minutes and then go up the food chain if a parent didn't reappear. If it was in a business parking lot I'd tell a manager; if it were at the mall or something (so who knows which store the parent is at) call 911.

I will leave my daughter (toddler) in the car to return a cart to the cart rack, but only if it is a few hops from my car. I normally try to park kind of near it for this reason. If I'd have to let the car out of my sight I don't do it... but I don't think somebody else would be a horrible parent if they did. I don't think the odds of something happening in the 30 seconds it takes to run the book back into the library are really high enough to freak oneself out over, and the lady who threatened to call the cops sounds like a biatch.


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## LLQ1011 (Mar 28, 2012)

Call 911. Its so hot here even a child who might be able to get out of the car might not realize how serious their situation is unroll it'd too late. So many children die here every year.


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## dejagerw (Jan 5, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *katelove*
> 
> About 12 years ago I walked out of the hospital where I walked at 11pm and saw a baby (about 6mo) alone in a car. No sign of any adults. The car was unlocked so I opened the door to take the baby out and found that there was an older child (7-8yo) hiding in the middle seat, crying because she was scared. I took them both into ED, which is what is planned to do with the baby. I was going to give them to the triage nurse but their mother approached me as I was talking to the triage nurse. She claimed she was just going back to get them but she had just been sitting I'm the waiting room when I walked in so I doubt it. I think she'd planned to leave them there until she was finished.


I know your intentions were good but taking kids from a parked car... that's kidnapping. You are lucky you were not charged. In this situation, you should have called 911 and stayed with the kids until someone came.

As for OP. It would depend on a couple things. If it's hot out and it's a baby or toddler who can't get out. I'd wait a minute or two for the parent then call 911. All while waiting there. My friend's nanny accidentally locked the baby and keys in the car in a parking lot. So she had to run back into the store to tell the mom and contact someone to open the door. So in that situation, the baby was left in the car and was clearly not abandoned or anything.

Also, if the child can get out on their own (like age 4+), there is no way I'd call the police on someone for leaving their kid in the car. There is no way the car is going to get stolen with the kid in it, or a kidnapper's going to come and snatch the kid. The odds of that happening or so small. They are much more likely to get hit in the parking lot. Or you are much more likely to ruin the poor kid's life by getting CPS involved.


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## JelloPanda (Nov 26, 2010)

It is against the law (here) to leave a child under the age of 10 unattended - even if it's just 20 minutes while you do your grocery shopping.

Breaking into a car to rescue a child is legal here if you suspect the child is in danger (because of heat, cold, etc)

I wouldn't do it if I saw mom leave a sleeping child in the car to run a book into the drop off slot at the library, for example. But with our incredibly cold winters and HOT summers here, I would *definitely* call the police and rescue an infant that was shut in a car alone at the grocery store or something.

With an older child, I'd stand by the car and wait for mom or dad to come back, as long as the child looked "okay".


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## mistymoral (Aug 4, 2011)

I'd NEVER leave my child in the car. He is almost 4 so it would be completely innapropriate and dangerous!!!

I was left in the car to watch my younger siblings when I was in Elementary school. I know I was mature and trustworthy at an early age, but I would have been helpless against kidnappers, and can you imagine if something DID happen? If I at 8 year of age had not managed to get my 3 year old brother out of the car on time for some reason? I would have been traumatized in a horrendous way, and it should have never been MY responsibility to take care of a toddler before I even hit 10. I don't think I would leave a child alone in the car until they are a teen. Maybe tween if they don't have younger siblings there.


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## alaskanmomma (May 25, 2011)

Like... 10+, I wouldn't think twice if it was outside a gas station, but beyond that, yes, I'd be concerned and probably call the police. Without a doubt, any child under 10, no matter where at, I'd call the police.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

This thread is interesting. the consensus seems to be that below a certain age one would take action, above a certain age one would not. The "certain age" is what is in debate. Also, it depends on the weather where you are. Some people have said "It's so hot here that any child would be at risk", and that also factors in. I live in Ohio. It's pretty temperate right now. I would leave an 8-year-old in the car here for a few minutes and not be concerned about them overheating. If I were in Florida or it was July, maybe not.

Quite frankly, I would hope that people who think that kids shouldn't be left in a car until they're teens would be able to understand from this thread that reasonable people might disagree and select a "certain age" that's lower. If you see a kid in that in-between age, maybe it would be a good idea to keep an eye on them rather than immediately calling 911. If it is hot and you're concerned, you could also knock on the window and talk to them. Calling 911 on someone else's parenting decision could land them in a lot of hot water. I'd be reluctant to do that for what could be a reasonable decision just because the parents didn't share my standards. Of course, if the child is at demonstrable risk, obviously it wasn't a reasonable decision, but all I'm saying is there is a gray area, kwim?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JelloPanda*
> 
> It is against the law (here) to leave a child under the age of 10 unattended - even if it's just 20 minutes while you do your grocery shopping.


"Just" 20 minutes? I've always been on the "wrong" side of the "kids in cars" discussion on MDC (ie. I don't think it's automatically morally reprehensible), but I think 20 minutes is quite a long time. I've left my kids in the car many times, and much younger than 10. But, I've done so to return shopping carts, or while I'm unloading groceries at the house (with young kids, I feel they're safer in the car than they are running around between the car and house - and possibly into the parking lot - while I'm going in and out with bags).

I think set ages (eg. "under 10") are kind of ridiculous, personally. My oldest was more able to look after himself at six than my third one is at almost eight. DD1 would have been fine on her own for a few minutes (eg. five or less) when she was about five. (I never left her, because ds2 was with her, and he was too young.)

Someone here on MDC once commented that 14 was too young, because the threat of kidnapping still existed. I can assure anybody who's interested that ds1, at 14, was far more able to defend himself against a kidnapper than I was! (He'd reached almost six feet in height, was training as a gymnast, had some martial arts experience, etc. - I was very pregnant.)

It's not the age. It's the child. That's why the laws about this kind of annoy me. They assume that a legislator who isn't on the scene can do a better risk assessment than the parent who is on the scene. Sure - some parents are negligent. You can't legislate that away.


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## LLQ1011 (Mar 28, 2012)

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4657818/toddler-dies-after-being-left-in-car-with-the-heater-on.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/30/mother-leaves-her-kids-in_n_2217766.html

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/01/18/heather-jensen-sons-died-hyperthermia-car-sex-nearby

even in cool weather with the heat on it isn't safe. one boy was 4.

Even this car thief knows better.

http://blog.sfgate.com/sfmoms/2010/11/22/car-thief-yells-at-mom-for-leaving-toddler-unattended/


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## skycheattraffic (Apr 16, 2012)

My cutoff age would be if I was comfortable sending the child to the corner store alone then they could wait in the car for a few minutes. Otherwise I'm very cautious about turning my back as a local small town had a case of a kidnapping which ended up with finding the young child's remains. I could just never live with myself if something very unlikely DID happen. I pay at the pump if it's just DD and me and we drop off books while going to the library to play and read. I'm lucky to have a very supportive and involved DH and if needed he'd run to gas up or drop stuff off in the evening. DD comes with me to drop off grocery carts before we get in the car. I'm not saying it's reprehensible to leave a small child in the car for a minute, I just can't do it personally.

ETA as for seeing kids, I'd contact business owner or the authorities for infants and toddlers if an adult didn't show within ten minutes, less in extreme temperatures.


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## mammatobecca (Aug 3, 2006)

wow. I seriously think I am a really overprotective mom at times. but I have left my 7,5,and baby in the car to pay for gas. 30ft away from the van and my eyes never leave the van. I am not going to drag them all through the rain, cold, snow, whatever for the less than 30sec it takes to pay. I know they are safe. I also put them in before I return my cart. although I always park next to the cart return. I do know someone who left their 2 year old in for a second to drop something off, was only a few feet away from her car and never out of sight and someone called the police on her. I am glad there are concerned people out there but sometimes people get a little carried away. Use your judgment. If the kids are ok, just watch to make sure mom comes back quickly...if they are out there for a while, yes, I would call 911 too.


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## newmamalizzy (Jul 23, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dejagerw*
> 
> Also, if the child can get out on their own (like age 4+), there is no way I'd call the police on someone for leaving their kid in the car. There is no way the car is going to get stolen with the kid in it, or a kidnapper's going to come and snatch the kid. The odds of that happening or so small. They are much more likely to get hit in the parking lot. Or you are much more likely to ruin the poor kid's life by getting CPS involved.


I think the child getting out of the car on their own is exactly what I would be worried about. You'd have to be darned sure that your child is trustworthy enough to stay in the car.


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## Triniity (Jul 15, 2007)

Quote:


> I think the child getting out of the car on their own is exactly what I would be worried about










that happened to me one time. I was obviously a little bit uncautious there. I left my four year old in the car, played his favourite tape, to pick up his sister from school. This takes about 3 minutes, but I could not see the car, because I had to walk around a corner. When I came back around the corner, my son was with a stranger walking on the school ground who said he found him wandering on the parking lot.

He obviously did not stay in the car for longer then 30 sec. I will never ever leave a kid alone in a car if I cannot see the car the whole time.

And, I never lock my car if I leave the kids in there, like at the gas station or when I bring back the grocery cart. (I only bring it back if I can see my car the whole time) I actually leave the trunk open at a supermarket lot (it's a van) because I figure, if something happens to me (like mom getting run over by a car) nobody would know that my kids are in there, so I need them to be able to be heard if they cry. That might be obsessive though.


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## trekkingirl (Dec 2, 2009)

How could a mom leave her two sons alone in a car for two hours while she had sex with some guy in another car. That is so sad for those boys and I'm just blown away by that womans poor judgement.


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## Fillyjonk (Sep 21, 2007)

I really agree with the poster who said its a grey area.

I'm sure there are scenarios that absolutely warrant intervention. TBH if I saw someone of any age in a car asleep on a very hot day I might intervene. Leaving kids unable to get out of the car alone seems like a bad idea.

But I have zero problem with leaving my 9 year old in the car at the local grocery store while I shop. Its local, he can get out of the car if there 's a problem. He has a mobile (cell phone?) and tbh the issue for him is that he'd rather be reading than shopping, especially since we seem to end up shopping way too much right now (I'm not being that organised). Although its a big supermarket, the staff turnover is low and we've been shopping there since before he was born, and all our local friends shop there, so its an enviorment where he's known by sight. He's not a shy kid, to say the least. He also walks down to the same store, or smaller local stores, on his own. He's pretty sensible and we are texting back and forth while I'm in there. TBH if he saw an adult lurking nearby making sure he's safe the odds are he'd text me to say someone was watching the car (maybe...or he might be too engrossed in his book).

I wouldn't necessarily leave my younger kids even when they reached his age. My next child coming along is just that much less sensible and far more likely to freak out, she'd panic and not know what to do if a stranger knocked on the window.

I'd personally never take kids out of the car to pay for petrol unless they were older. I really think the safest place for toddlers on a station forecourt is in the car, though generally we have a pay at pump option anyway over here. Every so often you get someone trying to get away without paying for petrol, and that to me is a much bigger danger than the risk of abduction, ten feet from me, with multiple CCTV cameras trained. (it might be that UK petrol forecourts are smaller than US ones, BTW, ours typically have six to twelve pumps at most)


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## Tahpenes (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I've left my kids in the car many times, and much younger than 10. But, I've done so to return shopping carts, or while I'm unloading groceries at the house (with young kids, I feel they're safer in the car than they are running around between the car and house - and possibly into the parking lot - while I'm going in and out with bags).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mammatobecca*
> 
> wow. I seriously think I am a really overprotective mom at times. but I have left my 7,5,and baby in the car to pay for gas. 30ft away from the van and my eyes never leave the van. I am not going to drag them all through the rain, cold, snow, whatever for the less than 30sec it takes to pay.


At least my understanding is that what's being discussed are much lengthier periods of time, not just the few seconds it takes to return a cart while you're still in view of the car. If people really are saying that they wouldn't leave their child in the car while pumping gas or unloading groceries at home then I'm in the "it's okay to leave them in the car in certain circumstances" camp.

I really thought this discussion was more along the lines of children left alone during a grocery shopping trip or while returning merchandise at a store in the mall, situations where you stand around for a bit and the parent(s) are obviously nowhere to be seen. If the parent is in view of the car and it's been only a few moments, I don't have any issues with that.


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## revolting (Sep 10, 2010)

I leave my kids (3 and 6) in the car to bring a cart back. I never even realized this was debateable!


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## marsupial-mom (Feb 3, 2010)

Where I live, it's illegal to leave kids under 12 in a car alone. Illegal to the point where the kids go into fostercare, not illegal meaning a ticket and a fine. Those of you who do it - Reconsider!


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## LiLStar (Jul 7, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marsupial-mom*
> 
> Where I live, it's illegal to leave kids under 12 in a car alone. Illegal to the point where the kids go into fostercare, not illegal meaning a ticket and a fine. Those of you who do it - Reconsider!


But they do allow for some gray here, right? There's cart returning (30 seconds tops? and staying outdoors, usually in view of car?) using an ATM.. just a few steps from the car. Returning library books into the drop box, when there's usually a couple designated "drop off" parking spots right in front of the drop box! What about if the car is parked in the driveway of the home?

Personally, I recognize that the absolute biggest risk if I were to leave my kids in the car is CPS involvement. The risk of kidnapping is so remote. With the rare exception however, I do not leave my kids alone in the car. When shopping, I don't buckle my kids in until after I've returned the cart. I rack up library fines on occasion because my closest library has a drop box that is around the corner from the parking lot (grrr!!! Seriously?! Its brand new too, and no one thought of this during the construction planning?!) so I never get around to returning books unless we're *all* going in (I hate going to the library with 3 kids!) or I manage to go kid free. Unless we go to the next closest library, that one has a parking spot just a few steps from the drop box. So yeah, I'll leave my kids alone to drop books in there  You wouldn't be able to count to 5 during the time I'm out of the car! Another time, at ds1's preschool pickup, dd was sick so I didn't want to bring her in. Its an in home preschool and the parking lot is behind the house, very private feeling, and very safe feeling. So I left her in there rather than expose a preschool full of kids to whatever she had! My biggest offense is, I'm the QUEEN of buckling the kids in, then realizing I forgot my keys, or my cell phone, or a spare diaper, or something stupid like that. No way am I unbuckling all 3 of 'em just to run in real fast! Our driveway is at about a 45* angle to the street down a slight hill with plenty of tree/bush coverage so a passerby wouldn't notice kids... again with the feeling private/safe. "safe" I guess being measured by "how likely is someone to walk by, notice, and call 911?"


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## Fillyjonk (Sep 21, 2007)

*marsupial mom *wrote

"Where I live, it's illegal to leave kids under 12 in a car alone. Illegal to the point where the kids go into fostercare, not illegal meaning a ticket and a fine. Those of you who do it - Reconsider!"

I have to say, depending on the area you live in, that does seem like an OTT law. If thats the deal where you are and CPS would seriously have kids enter the care system because, say, their mother let a kid old enough to walk to and from the same store alone-say 10-, wait quietly in the car with a book, water and a cell phone, then that is incredibly constricting.

I feel fortunate that that is not the situation where I am, at least in practice, so I can make considered decisions based on the needs of my own family.

ETA clarity, sorry my quotes thing isn't working properly


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## dalia (Sep 3, 2007)

I leave my kid in the car to pump gas, return carts, use the ATM, whatever. If I can see the car then it's not a big deal. I can't imagine it being a big deal for anyone else either. Are we really to think that there is a stranger lurking behind a bush just waiting for me to leave my kid in the car for three minutes? I don't live in that kind of world.

Now, if there was someone I knew that was trying to take off with my kid (such as an ex husband or something), you can bet I would have an armed guard standing by at all times. That is what the vast majority of kidnappings are: people the victims knew, and usually a parent kidnapping from the other parent. Kidnapping by a complete stranger is extemely rare.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

This is from a few days ago, but I didn't know that going to great lengths to avoid taking a sleeping child out of a car seat was sign of poor attachment or maternal depression.

I did regularly leave 2-3 year old ds asleep in the shade with the windows rolled down to fetch dd from preschool. This entailed me going around the corner, out of site of the car. No way on earth I was going to wake him up and haul him in with me under those circumstances.

That instance where someone called 911 with the mom in sight a little ways away- that sounds like a waste of my tax dollars and the caller should be sent the bill. Don't do hyper vigilant, hyper righteous crap like that.

Sorry, I might be a little grumpy today.


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## DHinJersey (Jan 11, 2013)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JelloPanda*
> 
> It is against the law (here) to leave a child under the age of 10 unattended - even if it's just 20 minutes while you do your grocery shopping.
> 
> ...


This is the most ridiculous law in the history of laws. Criminy. What a world we live in. You can't leave a nine year old in a car? WTF???


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## DHinJersey (Jan 11, 2013)

Thank you for this very sane post.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journeymom*
> 
> This is from a few days ago, but I didn't know that going to great lengths to avoid taking a sleeping child out of a car seat was sign of poor attachment or maternal depression.
> 
> ...


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## DHinJersey (Jan 11, 2013)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marsupial-mom*
> 
> Where I live, it's illegal to leave kids under 12 in a car alone. Illegal to the point where the kids go into fostercare, not illegal meaning a ticket and a fine. Those of you who do it - Reconsider!


Absurd. I hope someone sues the crap out of your town and has this law overturned.


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## trekkingirl (Dec 2, 2009)

anyone have a link to find out the laws from state to state?


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Here's one:

http://nlyca.safekidsweb.org/resources/documents/Public%20Policy/NLYCA%20-%20Law%20Summaries%20-%203-14-11%20-Final.pdf


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

In my state it is illegal to leave kids under 10 alone in the car. So, I would call the police.


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## chel (Jul 24, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journeymom*
> 
> Here's one:
> 
> http://nlyca.safekidsweb.org/resources/documents/Public%20Policy/NLYCA%20-%20Law%20Summaries%20-%203-14-11%20-Final.pdf


Interesting read.
Looks like the age limit is 6-7. Several special notes about living kids in cars outside bars!

Got to chuckle about kids under 12 can't be alone in public places in general in conn.. Like no riding bikes with friends?. 11yr old boy having to go into the public restroom with mom?


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## Banana731 (Aug 4, 2006)

"Nobody tell me what to with my kids, but I'm going to tell you what to with yours" is the most obnoxious thing EVER. I am floored by the number of people who would call the police about this.

I might, *might* hang out and watch, without making it obvious, to make sure very little children left in a car were okay, but if they were in there with an older sibling and everyone looked like they were just waiting, I wouldn't even bat an eye.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Banana731*
> 
> "Nobody tell me what to with my kids, but I'm going to tell you what to with yours" is the most obnoxious thing EVER. I am floored by the number of people who would call the police about this.
> 
> I might, *might* hang out and watch, without making it obvious, to make sure very little children left in a car were okay, but if they were in there with an older sibling and everyone looked like they were just waiting, I wouldn't even bat an eye.


I'm one of the people who called. Exactly how long would you wait? It was about 40 minutes before the parent showed up the time I *did* call, no idea how long she was gone before I called. If we lived in a different climate, a child could easily die being left in a car for 40 minutes.


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## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

Starting from when I was about 8 or 9, all I wanted to do was sit in the car and read while mom shopped. She left me frequently, which was and still is pretty normal in my area. I go by what someone above said...if it's safe enough that I would send my children in alone, I leave them in the car alone. I do have teenagers and a 10 year old. I don't often leave the 10 year old in the car alone but I certainly leave teenagers alone(and I leave the 10 year old and toddler in the car with the teenagers). Using the possiblity of being kidnapped, *I* could be kidnapped sitting alone in the car waiting on dh to get out of the boring hardware store. I could be kidnapped from my own front yard. Really.

I would be concerned if I saw a baby/toddler in the car alone at an actual store that takes longer than a minute. So a gas station to run in and pay, who cares. Our gas station when we lived out in the country was family run and out of the way so it was only locals who used it. I left my little ones in the car to walk inside and give them the money. Not a problem. (also they are one of the rare places that let us pump first, then pay) I wouldn't do that in the city but I certainly wouldn't call the cops!!

Someone in my county recently called the cops and had cps involved when the mom parked at the sidewalk, walked down the sidewalk a bit to put a letter in the mail drop box, and then walked back to her car. Some nosy know-it-all caused all that trouble because this poor mom didn't feel like unstrapping two babies and walking down the sidewalk for a few seconds, then having to strap them back in. And look...which country is it where it's normal to leave the baby in the stroller outside the cafe while you go in and eat? But god forbid you leave a perfectly capable 8 year old in the car for 20 minutes in decent, non-threatening weather. I wonder how people in other countries react to this.


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## revolting (Sep 10, 2010)

Tired: In another she might not have done it.


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## michelleepotter (Apr 8, 2013)

The law in my state says you can't leave a child under 7 unless supervised by someone 14 or older. I think that's a relatively new law, though. If not, then I'm sure I've broken it. Oh well.

I was reading some statistics on missing kids today. According to the US Department of Justice's report, National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway, and Thrownaway Children, 48% of "missing" children are runaways and "thrownaways," which is their word for kids who've been kicked out of the house. 28% of missing kids cases are misunderstandings. 15% are kids who get lost or injured, and therefore don't show up where they should be. 9% are abducted by a family member or close friend (which would include custodial interference cases). 2-3% are actually abducted by strangers. Obviously there must be some room for error there, since it adds up to 103%, but it really puts some perspective on the reality of missing kids.

I also agree that it's crazy to call the cops on a child old enough to go to the store alone being left in the car outside that same store, but I wouldn't be very surprised if someone called the cops if you let your kid walk to the store. Someone called on me because my 6yo daughter was playing at the park by our house. That is *not* illegal where I live, and even the deputy's supervisor and CPS told me it wasn't illegal or unsafe -- but then they told me I shouldn't do it just to avoid dealing with people calling the cops on me. That was SO infuriating.

Of course, I've also had a cop yell at me for paying TOO MUCH attention to my daughter. When my oldest was about 6, I parked in front of a video rental store, and let her walk to the video return slot and return the video all by herself. I was really nervous and focused on watching her to be sure she was safe, and a cop walked up behind me, knocked on my window, and proceeded to ream me out because he "could have been a carjacker!" Apparently, I'm supposed to be watching all directions at once!


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## michelleepotter (Apr 8, 2013)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *purplerose*
> 
> And look...which country is it where it's normal to leave the baby in the stroller outside the cafe while you go in and eat? But god forbid you leave a perfectly capable 8 year old in the car for 20 minutes in decent, non-threatening weather. I wonder how people in other countries react to this.


Pretty sure that's common in all the Nordic countries, but I remember that mom from Sweden who tried it in MA (Boston, I think?) and people freaked the heck out on her. When I first heard about it I thought it was a bit extreme, but now that I know it's common practice in Sweden I just feel sorry for her! She didn't put her baby in danger, she just made a little cultural faux pas!


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## Tahpenes (Jun 2, 2006)

It isn't just "hot climates" in which children die after being left alone in a car. My father, who was a volunteer EMT in upstate New York, had to respond to a scene once in which a young child died after being left alone in a car in late spring.

Nobody on here has called parents who leave their kids in a car bad parents. Did I miss somewhere in this thread people suggesting that people who do this are horrible, or should have their kids taken away, or that the police are being called out of maliciousness? Yet now we have several posters who are calling folks who are concerned about this kind of thing "obnoxious," or "busy-bodies," or "nosy," or using all kinds of (sexist) stereotypes to bash other posters.

I realize that the possibility of having CPS called on you is incredibly scary. I also think most of us on Mothering probably do totally innocuous things which would cause others to call CPS on us, like extended breast-feeding and co-sleeping. But leaving a child alone in a car for even 10 minutes can be lethal. This isn't some perfectly acceptable/healthy practice that just gets a bad rap because other people like to be up in everybody else's business.

Most people simply do not realize how hot it gets inside a vehicle, even when the ambient air is not particularly warm. To be quite frank, what emergency responders are often taught to do if they find a locked car with a child in it is break the window to immediately get the child out, and that's what many areas advocate the general public do if they see a young child alone in a car. Given that, I think that waiting to see if the parent is around and then calling 911 is a measured response. Nobody's calling police because they want the parents to be punished; they're calling because that child could die.

Give the name-calling a rest.


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## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

I promise you it's a lot more dangerous for a toddler to be walking in our closest gas station's parking lot than it is for them to be left safely in the carseat buckled up. I've almost gotten hit numerous times and I watched a kid get hit once, there is NO WAY I would take my kids out of the car at the gas station.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tahpenes*
> 
> It isn't just "hot climates" in which children die after being left alone in a car. My father, who was a volunteer EMT in upstate New York, had to respond to a scene once in which a young child died after being left alone in a car in late spring.
> 
> ...


I know how hot it gets in my van in various different weather conditions, because I regularly get into my van when it's been sitting outside in the weather. It's a cool, clear Spring day outside right now, and my van is a hotbox. I wouldn't leave my kids in there for more than 30 seconds to a minute (eg. returning a cart) right now. However, I live in Vancouver, BC, and it would take a seriously high level of paranoia to be focused on the hot car thing around here. It's simply not an issue for most of the year. Most of the time, around here, this (ie. leaving kids in the car) is a perfectly acceptable/healthy practice. Carjacking is almost completely unheard of here, and it's rarely too hot - even in a car - for a child to be safely left for 10 minutes. You're painting with a broad brush.

And, yeah - if a child is showing no signs of distress, I think that calling CPS or the police, or smashing a window, is an irresponsible first response. Wait a minute and see what's going on. Tying up social services and/or the police, or causing significant property damage, when the mother may be running a 30 second errand, is nuts. This is typical one-size-fits-all-we-know-better-than-the-person-on-the-spot stupidity. Yes - some parents blow it, and their children pay the price. That doesn't mean the law is better at individual risk assessment than the individual. (And, many cases of children left in cars are either complete accidents, which break my heart, or they're the kind of parent who isn't going to care what the law says...like a late friend of my mom's, who was left in his mother's car, with his sibilngs, for hours while she went to the bar. It was a completely acceptable practice to leave one's kids in the car for short periods of time back then - but she was still criminally negligent. The law didn't make any difference at all.)


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## dalia (Sep 3, 2007)

I once saw a woman who went into a cafe and left her stroller with sleeping baby in the fresh air just outside the window where she was sitting. She left her big dog there next to the baby. Man, I judged that lady up and down. How DARE she do that? I was gonna call the police! I was angry!!!!

This was before I was a parent. Now I realize I was being totally ridiculous. I just liked judging someone else. Now I know better!


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## Tahpenes (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> And, yeah - if a child is showing no signs of distress, I think that calling CPS or the police, or smashing a window, is an irresponsible first response. Wait a minute and see what's going on. Tying up social services and/or the police, or causing significant property damage, when the mother may be running a 30 second errand, is nuts. This is typical one-size-fits-all-we-know-better-than-the-person-on-the-spot stupidity.


But nobody in this thread - NOBODY - has talked about calling the police when the child was alone in the car for 30 seconds. And if first responders have been called to a scene because a child was left alone in the car, if the parent is still not present by the time they arrive it's assured that the child has been left alone for quite a while.

There are gray areas and nuance regarding when it's appropriate to call the police and when it isn't. Each scenario will contain different factors like the age of the children and whether the children appear to be in distress, and each person will make different calls depending on the situation and their own experiences. Unfortunately, laws are nearly impossible to write with gray areas in mind, so frustration with scattershot laws are one thing. But in terms of using a "broad brush," as you put it, do you really think it's appropriate to say that calling police is "obnoxious" as one person in this thread phrased it? That was the attitude I was calling out. Obviously there are times when calling the police isn't appropriate, and some times when it's a judgment call. And there may be some instances (in extreme heat, or when an infant appears to be pale or not breathing) when smashing a window would be the appropriate first response, even before calling 911. To me, saying that one would never call the police and that it's "obnoxious" to do so is a much, much broader (and more dangerous) brush than saying that some circumstances call for it.


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## Banana731 (Aug 4, 2006)

I actually said it was obnoxious to think your parenting judgements were more valid than the parenting judgements of others. And that is really obnoxious.

Unless you don't find it obnoxious to be told that your parenting decisions are wrong?


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## Cyllya (Jun 10, 2009)

I think around six or seven years old is around when some kids start getting to where it's no more dangerous to leave them alone in the car than it would be to leave an adult in the car alone. (Sure, someone could break into the car, beat them up, and drag them off, but they could do that to me too, and I'm 25. I think I can be left alone in a car, thanks.) Can you leave the keys in the ignition and the kid won't try to operate the car? (In all the cars I've had, this is a requirement for the fan and radio, and the air conditioning requires the engine to be running.) They won't mess with any of the knobs except for air conditioning and radio? They will leave the door locked and then unlock it for you when you come back? If they do need to get out of the car for some reason, do they know how to navigate parking lots safely? Do they have a healthy wariness of strangers? Bonus points if kid and the driving parent both have a cell phone in case one of those rare extenuating circumstances pop up. I guess it's a good idea to teach your kid how to trigger the car alarm too. Of course, many will need to be older to have these skills, but if I see a child this age in a car alone, I'm not going to assume I know him better than his parents.

I figure the danger age is toddlers, since they have the mobility to get in to trouble but don't yet have the wisdom to know better. I expect the parent to be in sight in this case. Babies can wait a little longer as long as it's a cool, cloudy day. If I saw a baby in a car alone, I'd probably hang around a few minutes to make sure the parent comes back in a safe time frame, because I figure parents can sometimes be tired and spacy (... or drunk...) and might have forgotten they brought the baby to the store with them. (When my friend was a baby, his parents accidentally left him in a bucket seat *on top of the car* when they were starting to drive! Fortunately, they remembered him before it was too late. From what I could tell, these were good and reasonably sane parents otherwise.)


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## lotusblossom5 (Feb 15, 2012)

There was a time when I was very judgmental of parents who left their kids in hot cars. Until I did it. This was during an exceptionally emotional and hectic time for me. My mom had been diagnosed with stage IV cancer. My aunt and I were scheduled to take my mom to an appointment, and my 11 month old son happened to be home that day (I can't remember if he was sick, or what was going on with him). I dropped my mom and aunt off at the front door and I parked. We were inside the waiting room for about a half hour, and my aunt looked at me in horror and said, "THE BABY!" I ran outside to the car and opened the door. My son had been crying and was flushed, but by the grace of God, he was okay. I got him inside and took all his clothes off and wiped him down to cool him off. Thankfully, despite being a June day in the late morning, it was not a hot day.

I couldn't even talk about it for months, except to tell my husband, and I bring it up to very few people, because I know what could have happened, and I also know how I used to feel about "callous" women who left their kids in the car.

I was in a surreal place at that time with my mom's illness, and it also was not normal to have my son home, so everything was out of context. My guess is that this is likely the case for other people, as well.

To answer the actual question, though, if the child was in distress, I would absolutely call 911, just as I would hope that someone would have done for my son if it had come to that. If I was by myself, I would stay with the car until authorities got there. If I was with someone else, or if the child appeared to be okay, I would have the other person stay at the car and I would go in and have the owner of the vehicle urgently paged. If they did not come up almost instantly, I would go back outside to the car and call 911. The life (and quality of life) of the child is more important than being worried about how the parents will feel, or even the ramifications to the parents.

The one thing that I have learned is that I no longer judge parents of a child who has this happen to them, because they may have the weight of the world on their shoulders. If the unthinkable happens, that, by far, is the worst punishment there could be. If I had to trade going to jail to let my son live (and thank God I didn't), I would do it in a heartbeat.


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## XxAkikazexX (Apr 10, 2013)

If I say a tiny puppy child in the car by themselves I would probably call the police. You just can't tell how long they have been in there. If they we're over the age of say 9 or 10, I would be okay with it. They have the ability to get out of the car. I have left my little one in the car for a few moments while I ran to nab something but I was able to keep an eye on the car. While we really shouldn't be leaving kids in the car, careless people have ruined it for us.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lotusblossom5*
> 
> There was a time when I was very judgmental of parents who left their kids in hot cars. Until I did it. This was during an exceptionally emotional and hectic time for me. My mom had been diagnosed with stage IV cancer. My aunt and I were scheduled to take my mom to an appointment, and my 11 month old son happened to be home that day (I can't remember if he was sick, or what was going on with him). I dropped my mom and aunt off at the front door and I parked. We were inside the waiting room for about a half hour, and my aunt looked at me in horror and said, "THE BABY!" I ran outside to the car and opened the door. My son had been crying and was flushed, but by the grace of God, he was okay. I got him inside and took all his clothes off and wiped him down to cool him off. Thankfully, despite being a June day in the late morning, it was not a hot day.
> 
> ...


I assume you would not have been upset with someone if they had called the police because your baby was left in the car, right? Sometimes people do forget their babies in the car. My friend parked her car on a busy city street and walked several blocks to meet friends at a restaurant. When she walked in we were all "where's the baby?" And she made a mad dash to get him. It happens. I think it is perfectly reasonable to see a baby strapped into a car seat with no one around and call 911.

I'm not talking about paying for gas (although I don't know anywhere, where you walk away to pay for gas, that's why we have debit cards, but I guess some people still pay in cash?), or returning your cart, this would be less than a minute. It would take me longer than that to call 911. If there was enough time for me to see a kid (strapped into a car seat, so baby, toddler, preschooler) and no one around, and enough time for me to get my phone, and wrestle with the idea of calling 911, and then actual make the call. It was too long for the kid to be alone in the car. Now I'm personally talking about a little kid (think still in 5 point harness).

And older kid, I probably wouldn't even notice. Now there could absolutely be tragic consequences, but truthfully I don't know that I would do anything unless it was a super hot summer day.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Yeah, I would never intentionally leave a baby or toddler in the car alone, so if someone called 911 on that, i'd be grateful, because it would have been an accident and could have turned into something horrible. I'm only bothered by people who call 911 when someone is just returning a shopping cart, like I'm thinking of the story from a few years back where a woman parked in front of a Salvation Army bucket at Christmastime to put money in the bucket, but didn't unstrap her sleeping 2-year-old and get her out of the car to walk to few steps to the bucket, and a police officer arrested her. Or when someone calls about children who are old enough to get themselves out if the car got dangerously hot. That would be disagreeing with someone's parenting choice rather than worrying about safety.


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## lilgreen (Dec 5, 2003)

Seriously, the chances of something happening are ridiculously slim. If I saw kids in a car outside a casino or bar, I would be concerned. But in a parking lot near a grocery store, I would be fine with it. Life isn't any more dangerous now than it was when we were little... we're just more anxious, imo. The idea that someone would call 911 while I ran into the store and left my kids - who I know are very responsible and who have been carefully instructed to keep the doors locked no matter what - is shocking to me. I once had an old woman make some pretty nasty judgements about my capacity as a mother because I left my kids (age 9, 5, 2 at the time) in the van while I ran into the store for a few minutes. It was extremely upsetting to both me and my kids and totally unnecessary.

I prefer to challenge the climate of fear around parenting that I sense from our culture. I don't put my kids at risk, I simply weigh the risk vs. value. And it makes my oldest feel really good and responsible when I leave him in charge of his brothers while I run in. Like when I sent them on the city bus to school and back every day (age 10 + 6 at the time). Really, what is going to happen to them? I could contrive a very random, far-fetched scenario that happened once to someone on the other side of the country, but I think it's far better for them to learn to be independent and learn how to manage real life situations (that I know are not risky). When I lived in East Africa, there were preschoolers taking care of babies. I certainly don't condone that, but my point is that kids are far more capable and intelligent than I think our culture allows us to believe.

Anyways, sorry if this sounded a little rant-like, I didn't mean it to be. I just get somewhat heated over this issue because it is so personal. And finally, I want to say that this is just the way I choose to do things, but I know it's not for everyone so I certainly do not pass judgement on moms who choose to never leave their kids in the car.


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

It totally depends on the situation for me. If I felt there was a danger, I'd investigate it myself first, check to see what's going on in the car, second, look around to see if anyone else has any concerns and the last thing I would do would be to call police.

I once defended a woman who had the police (and about 4 fire trucks and a news crew) called on her because she left her newborn infant and 8 year old son in the car while she ran into Babies R Us to grab some diapers (which are in the front of the store next to the cash registers). I saw the whole thing take place and the person doing the calling was just making a spectacle of herself. First she started yelling outside of the store, then she came in through the automatic doors and started announcing the entire situation for everyone to hear and loudly discussed which phone they should call the police from... The poor mom was devastated, and so was I, it was my first real "outing" by myself with my son with the car. When I gave my side of the story that she really was only in there for a second, it seemed like no one wanted to hear it, it was mid April, the weather was warming up and the news needed someone to make an example of.

That taught me for a lifetime that the most dangerous part of leaving my son in the car is someone calling the police on me... even though my truck is probably the safest vehicle to leave a child unattended in... the only time I would really need to leave him in the car would be at dog-realted event, which means he'd be in there with at least 1 protection trained dog with a heat/cold sensor, so if it gets too hot or cold, an alarm goes off on my keychain and the engine kicks on.


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## DHinJersey (Jan 11, 2013)

More dangerous? Sitting in a parked car or a driving car? The latter...by a factor of about 100.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilgreen*
> 
> I prefer to challenge the climate of fear around parenting that I sense from our culture. I don't put my kids at risk, I simply weigh the risk vs. value.


This.


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## forestmushroom (Sep 6, 2011)

I "leave" my baby and toddler in the car to walk up to my kid's school and pick him up (wave through window). But it is literally 15 feet from the car, and I never leave them if they are awake or it is hot.

We live in the PNW so it is usually cloudy/rainy during the school year... and I guess I am not technically leaving them since they are in my sight at all times, and it literally takes me 3 minutes to collect my son from school....

I would call the police if I waited at a car for 10 minutes and the parent didn't come out... but this is a 8 year-old or younger child. If it is hot though, I think I would call for any child under 14/15.... it is just too hot!


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## purplerose (Dec 27, 2010)

You would call the police on a 13 year old sitting in a car alone? That 13 year old could get out if he wanted!! Maybe he didn't want to get out. I just can't imagine calling police on a bigger kid/teenager.


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## Escaping (Nov 13, 2012)

In Alberta, Canada, the 14 year old could be the *driver* of the car lol


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

^^^Maybe the family routines changed and you forget that it was your turn to take him to day care or whatnot. Maybe you're distracted by something else. It happens, and to people who are otherwise good parents. Somebody upthread posted that she went to a medical appointment with some family members and in all the chaos forgot her son in the car for a little while.

I have heard some moms say that they stick their purse in the car seat when the kid isn't with them, so that they'll always have to go to the back seat in order to find their purse and therefore be in the habit of always checking the back seat to make sure the kid is or isn't there.


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## Cyllya (Jun 10, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *erigeron*
> 
> I have heard some moms say that they stick their purse in the car seat when the kid isn't with them, so that they'll always have to go to the back seat in order to find their purse and therefore be in the habit of always checking the back seat to make sure the kid is or isn't there.


Hey, thanks, I'm gonna make use of this tip someday, because I already know I'm one of the stupid, stupid people who'd forget their baby in the car.







I'd misplace my own body parts if they weren't so firmly attached, so misplacing a baby would be easy.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

I did this too. I put her in the seat and then, I don't know, had something else to do and meant to tighten it once I finished that other thing (putting my bag in the front seat and taking the Mei Tai off, or some such), and then forgot to go back and tighten it, so after that I decided I just would always tighten it fully as soon as I put her in rather than trying to wait and then forgetting.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skycheattraffic*
> 
> I'm sure this is one of those things that seems impossible until it happens to you.
> I haven't ever forgotten my child in the car but I DID forget to buckle her into her carseat once.


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## PamelaMassey (May 19, 2013)

Wow. So many different opinions. My 12 year old likes to sit in the car sometimes & listen to the radio while i'm shopping. I leave her the keys to listen to the radio & it's hot or cold she can run the heat or air. She knows if she gets out let me know first, then lock the car & bring me the keys. if my 2 younger kids are with me 9 & 6. I'll let my 9 yr old if my 12 yr old does, but not my 6 yr old. I feel more comfortable with him w me & he likes going in. The reason I don't like to leave my 9 yr old is bc she was sexually abused when she was 5 & to be honest I trust NOBODY when my girls are concerned. My 2 oldest have cell phones if they needed me & are always texting me when we're apart lol. If i'm getting gas or running into the bank I don't mind leaving them in the car, but they all usually wana go with me lol. Getting the police involved in another parents decision, I would consider alot of factors; ie age, weather, how far away the store is from the car.


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## PamelaMassey (May 19, 2013)

Adding to my previous post. I've heard on 2 different occasions of a parent leaving kids in a car at a bar. Are you kidding me?? A parent would leave their child in a car so they can have fun, dance, get drunk, party?? That's a responsible loving caring parent that puts their child first! (sarcasm of course)

And for the lady that forgot her baby in the car at a Drs appointment. Bless your heart! I know you had to have been stressed with what was going on w your Mom (been there done that, with my Mom). I can't imagine realizing I made that kind of mistake & the worry you felt running back to your baby. We are all human & make mistakes at some point.


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## g33kch1ck (Feb 15, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skycheattraffic*
> 
> I'm sure this is one of those things that seems impossible until it happens to you.


A little arm-chair psychology tells me I'm perhaps overcompensating for the haphazard, traumatic upbringing I had, but I would never forget I left my daughter in the car, like a piece of luggage. In my world, I would really have to reexamine where my mind was if I was so self-absorbed and so 'busy' that my priorities where that out of whack. That said, her age and maturity would determine for me whether I would consider leaving her in there deliberately, and certainly only if she was safe in any situation.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I can see myself forgetting a baby in the car, if the baby were sleeping and if having the baby in my car wasn't routine. Not because I ever thought a baby of mine was like luggage, or because I'm self-absorbed, but because when I'm focused on one thing, I lose focus in other areas. It has nothing to do with the level of importance of any particular thing that has my focus or doesn't have my focus. It's just that when I concentrate on one thing, I'm unable to pay attention to other things. However, I recognize this in myself, so I developed a habit of keeping my purse in the back seat so I'd always have to check the back seat no matter what.


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## dalia (Sep 3, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> I can see myself forgetting a baby in the car, if the baby were sleeping and if having the baby in my car wasn't routine. Not because I ever thought a baby of mine was like luggage, or because I'm self-absorbed, but because when I'm focused on one thing, I lose focus in other areas. It has nothing to do with the level of importance of any particular thing that has my focus or doesn't have my focus. It's just that when I concentrate on one thing, I'm unable to pay attention to other things. However, I recognize this in myself, so I developed a habit of keeping my purse in the back seat so I'd always have to check the back seat no matter what.


Yeah I think most people are like that. I can easily say I would never do it but you just never know. I like the idea of always putting your purse in the seat but I'll probably forget to do that as well!


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## newmamalizzy (Jul 23, 2010)

I was such a sleepless spaz the first year of DD's life that I probably shouldn't have been driving at all. I can most definitely see how someone might forget baby in the car.


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## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *g33kch1ck*
> 
> A little arm-chair psychology tells me I'm perhaps overcompensating for the haphazard, traumatic upbringing I had, but I would never forget I left my daughter in the car, like a piece of luggage. In my world, I would really have to reexamine where my mind was if I was so self-absorbed and so 'busy' that my priorities where that out of whack. That said, her age and maturity would determine for me whether I would consider leaving her in there deliberately, and certainly only if she was safe in any situation.


I gently suggest you read some stories about people that have done this and the circumstances leading up to it. It's not about priorities, it's about changes in routines, huge amounts of life stress, etc.

I've misplaced my baby inside my own house, I'm no one to judge. Accidents happen.


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## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

I have three children and have never left them alone in the car. I don't have any family to help me and my dh travelled a lot with work. Honestly, I didn't find it that difficult. Sometimes a pain but not to the point that I couldn't pop a baby in a sling to return a shopping cart. I just shake my head reading some of these. I'm not a over-paranoid person but things go wrong. Better a moment of inconvenience vs. a lifetime of regret.

What I do see here in France are parents who leave sleeping babies at home and go get older children from school. That, I did try once. Turns out there was some type of recent accident on the way home and I had to drive alllllll the waaaaaay around... I took it as a sign. Don't do this!

If I had to pick, I would say leaving a sleeping baby at home is safer than leaving them in a car. I just say, easier to do neither. It took some coordination but I just didn't put myself in a position where I had to even make the choice. I used gas pumps where I could pay right there. I shopped with small babies in slings. I just dragged my kids around sometimes. They weren't left in the car.

We do have p/t daycares and I did have that, three mornings a week. I would run around like a madwoman doing all my shopping, chores, etc. while they were there. I did plan my shopping and days around when they were awake, with me, etc. Added problem here; everything closes at 7pm and much is shut between 12-2pm but I digress...

For the record, I do things here in France that I would never do back home in California. I will leave my 11 year old, in the car, during the day, with a cell phone (she's usually playing games on it anyway) and she knows how to lock the door. I will make a quick visit to one store. I would not do that on visits to California. We're in a small town here and near San Francisco where my family lives, children go missing.

I also let my 11 & 13 year take public transport with cell phones. I want to say "during the day" but that would be a lie because in winter, the sun sets at 4:15pm so they will take it as late as 6pm. It's a short ride, with the commuter crowd. I would not do that if I lived in Paris or another big city.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *g33kch1ck*
> 
> I have read some stories, and I have the same opinion after reading them: what the f*[email protected]? I suppose I must seem judgmental to you. So be it; I'm not apologizing for being judgmental about the health and safety of children. In my opinion, that sort of lack of judgment and focus is how babies die. I'm tired and stressed, too, but I don't forget where I put my kid. It is about priorities, and being too selfish and self-absorbed to prioritize correctly. Sorry, I don't know you, but I can't fathom how you can misplace a baby. I DO judge.


Wow - what's it like to be perfect, and not have normal human failings?

My ex and I once forgot out baby (only a few weeks old) in the car. We were going to a reunion of our prenatal class, of all things. DS1 had fallen asleep in the carseat. When we got there, we unloaded my purse, the diaper bag, the food we'd brought (potluck), etc. We went through the diaper bag to make sure we remembered everything. Then, we went to the front door and rang the bell. As the host buzzed us in, we heard his baby in background, and went "OMG!". I do wonder how long it would have taken us to remember him if we had been attending something less baby-centric. That's never happened to me again in 20+ years of parenting, but it did happen once.

If you actually believe that you have some kind of superpower that overcomes the normal functioning of the human brain, I'm happy for you. But, people like you need some compassion. Some of the people who have forgotten babies in cars have ended up with dead children. I know what it is to lose a child because of a mistake, and if you can't feel compassion for people in that situation, you might want to get off your high horse about how selfish and self-absorbed other people are, because you're being all about you. Basking in your own feelings of superiority isn't a particularly attractive character trait, and believing you're a better parent than those around you doesn't make it so.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

I'm surprised there aren't more babies forgotten in cars. When you're driving a baby around, you're supposed to be focusing on driving...it really is in the baby's best interest, and everybody else's too. And the baby is supposed to be rear-facing, which makes the baby harder to see, but is really in the baby's best interest. It's a good thing to not be focusing on the baby the entire time you're in the car, and considering that sleep deprivation is an extremely common problem of being a responsive parent to a newborn, it's not surprising parents sometimes have trouble shifting gears back to baby-focused when they reach their destination.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

I'm surprised by how many people say they wouldn't be concerned with a child being left in a car by themselves as long as the child was old enough to leave the car by themselves. I have a 5 year old. She's been able to unbuckle herself and leave the car by herself since she was 4. She's almost 6 now, but I still wouldn't trust that she'd safely know how to navigate a busy parking lot or street, or that she would yet be old enough to have the common sense to go looking for the adult she came with, instead of finding a little park to play in or the nearest toy store she can go "shopping" in. There's a gap between able to get out of the car themselves and keeping themselves safe around moving cars.


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## dalia (Sep 3, 2007)

I think believing it can never happen to you is possibly the worst thing you can do if you want to AVOID making awful mistakes. The reality is, it can happen to anyone. Knowing that is really important.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Ok, I have reopened this thread. I have removed several posts that either do not contribute to a comfortable atmosphere or included name calling. Please check your PM box to see if any changes in posting behavior have been requested of you before continuing to post to this thread. MDC does not welcome name calling of any kind but especially towards members or others who have lost a child.

Discussing accidents, misjudgments and etc. can absolutely be done without the use of name calling and insensitivity towards families who have experienced a loss. I acknowledge that it takes more time, tact and thoughtfulness to do so, but dedication to this sort of civility is what makes our community so great. Thanks to those members who took the time to post in this way. I'm sorry if your considerate responses were removed along with the deleted posts or quotes of deleted posts.

Also lets keep in mind that we all process news of tragedies differently and for some of us we feel a lot of anger when we hear about seemingly preventable accidents resulting in the death of a child. Processing those feelings does not justify insensitivity but as members we can help others identify that this is a process and help our fellow mothers and members move away from anger and towards empathy.

I welcome members to continue this conversation but ask that you keep in mind the sensitivity and potential for strong disagreement on this subject.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kblackstone444*
> 
> I'm surprised by how many people say they wouldn't be concerned with a child being left in a car by themselves as long as the child was old enough to leave the car by themselves. I have a 5 year old. She's been able to unbuckle herself and leave the car by herself since she was 4. She's almost 6 now, but I still wouldn't trust that she'd safely know how to navigate a busy parking lot or street, or that she would yet be old enough to have the common sense to go looking for the adult she came with, instead of finding a little park to play in or the nearest toy store she can go "shopping" in. There's a gap between able to get out of the car themselves and keeping themselves safe around moving cars.


I'm actually surprised that "knowing how to get out of the car" is a good thing when deciding to leave a child in a car. I would be MUCH more comfortable leaving an infant or toddler who CANT get out in the car than an older child (like 4 or 5) who CAN...they are much more likely to "get in trouble"/put the car in gear/wander off/attract the attention of nosy passersby.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)


I guess when I've parked I've always parked right up next to the building (say bank with an ATM I'm at) so they wouldn't have to navigate the parking lot. My concern would be whether they were old enough to not run off I guess, but I kept them harnessed as long as I could and the older one couldn't undo a harness until she knew not to run off, and the younger one still can't unharness herself. If they'd been able to unharness themselves I would have had to take that into consideration as well.


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