# Venting



## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

...


----------



## nikkiethridge (May 6, 2008)

I usually not quick to pull the 'call CPS!' stuff, but mama this is what I would be doing. The 3 year old has got out of the house numerous times and his parents are completely clueless that he is gone!! Who lets a 3 year old wander off like that.

Sorry mama, But I think if you don't do something this could get BAD.


----------



## snoopy5386 (May 6, 2005)

seriously this is for real?? that is just crazy! Can you just lock your door to keep him out? I would start calling the cops or CPS.


----------



## Learning_Mum (Jan 5, 2007)

I would keep your door locked and I would call CPS. I'm not one to recommend it normally but his behaviour is way out there. Hurting animals, throwing things around your house, peeing on the cat?! These things are not normal 3yo behaviour and something needs to be done about it. I think this is where the professionals need to step in.


----------



## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

Completely for real.

I've really considered calling someone especially lately, but they are leaving for the summer at the end of next week anyway and I know it shouldn't matter, but my DD is friends with their DD too and since we don't live in town there is not many children nearby to play with. They called to invite us to their going away BBQ tomorrow night so I guess they consider me a friend too.

I'm considering calling the dad on his cell next time. I'm guessing he doesn't realize how out of control things are when he is gone. I think he would be more open to how serious this is.

I really try to keep my door locked during the day, but when my older kids are going in and out it has to stay open. I also would rather know he is out and get him home safely than just have him wander off.


----------



## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

I would not call CPS. Why would that be the first choice in handling this?

I would first talk with both parents about your concerns. Sounds like you are going to have to be blunt with these people.

"Your kid is peeing on my cat, that is not acceptable. He is not welcome here if he does it again." (use with any other misbehavior also.)

"It is dinner time. Why don't we talk some other time." (as you are opening the front door for the mom)

"Your son needs to knock and wait to be invited into my home."

That all I've got right now.


----------



## sarahope (Feb 5, 2009)

what a horrible story. I feel really, really bad for the children growing up in that home.

And I feel really bad for you having to deal with that. Call CPS when they return - they're just leaving for the summer, right? Or maybe call sooner. The 3 yr old deserves better.


----------



## sarahope (Feb 5, 2009)

hmmm pauletoy makes a good point.

what would happen if you were really blunt- harsh, even - with the mama?

Do you think she'd be receptive at all? Sounds like she's not even remotely concerned though about their way of life, and that's a problem.

I do think the fact that she's never aware her 3yr old is not even in her house is CPS worthy. I agree it's good to be cautious with such calls, but really - what if that kid got picked up? Or lost? Or . . . ?


----------



## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

I do wonder why the little boy is down the street by himself. Are there older sibblings outside with him (except of course the time he was suppose to be in timeout)?


----------



## nerdymom (Mar 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pauletoy* 
I would not call CPS. Why would that be the first choice in handling this?

I would first talk with both parents about your concerns. Sounds like you are going to have to be blunt with these people.

"Your kid is peeing on my cat, that is not acceptable. He is not welcome here if he does it again." (use with any other misbehavior also.)

"It is dinner time. Why don't we talk some other time." (as you are opening the front door for the mom)

"Your son needs to knock and wait to be invited into my home."

That all I've got right now.









: I would try talking first. If that doesn't change things, then call.


----------



## momasana (Aug 24, 2007)

It is clear that these people have no sense of boundaries. I agree with some of the pp who say you need to let them know that their behavior is unacceptable. You cannot change the way they treat their own children but you do have a right to tell them how to treat your property and your time.

Throwing rocks at your dogs? Peeing on the cat? Big red flags. This could turn really, really bad if things aren't put in check soon.


----------



## hippiemommaof4 (Mar 31, 2008)

Honestly... and you can take this info however you wish, I wouldnt be quick to call CPS at all. They may be doing things the wrong way and how they are responding to their kid is NOT right, but calling CPS on them could have a seriously damaging outcome for those kids. I mean he gets out ok.. I get that but kids do that where I live all of the time I mean heck the parents let 3 yr olds wander alone in my neighborhood all the time. I dont call cps on them though. My 2 yr old is a handfull seriously! He likes to be really rough with my cat (and dog) and my cat fights back,. my 2 yr old is very very very spirited and I tell him that we do NOT hit animals etc but that doesn't mean he listens to me ,so we usually utilize time out for those actions. Some kids are just destructive like my 2 yr old, I dont get it but we dont do anything to make him that way...he's just a wild man. I mean, I would hope people wouldnt call cps on me for that, its not my fault. He likes to throw things around and tear stuff apart too but he's very loving to me and others and a huge cuddler. Obviously I handle my child when he does inappropriate things but I'll admit to letting some things slide. She probably just lets all of that inappropriate behavior slide because she doesnt know how to handle it or is lazy. Talk to her...she may have other things going on in her life that you dont know about or she may not be sure on how to discipline him. I'm not saying what he is doing to you,your animals or your stuff is ok...because its not at all! Maybe just maybe there is more behind these people than meets the eye and they have a hard time coping with life in general or something...I dunno but good luck!


----------



## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"I would not call CPS. Why would that be the first choice in handling this?"

Because a toddler is getting out of his house and wandering a quarter of a mile to the OP's house on a regular basis.

The other stuff, I agree, is totally infuriating but not CPS-worthy. The quarter-mile jaunts outside alone? That's how little ones end up drowned in a ditch or, less often, snatched by a pedophile. That is neglect, and it MUST be reported.

Call. Then start documenting. This youngest one, at least, is better off in foster care and has a chance at a good home if it gets to TPR. Hopefully, the parents will respond to this massive wake-up call and mend their ways and it WON'T get to TPR.


----------



## robin4kids (Jan 20, 2004)

I would not call CPS at this point. If they are leaving then I would stick it out. I would however be very stern when the 3 y/o drops by. I would not make it a happy experience for him. I would walk him home right away and tell the mom that this is the last time that this can happen. I would list all the problems with a 3 y/o wondering by themselves. I would also tell them that if it happens again then you might have to cal someone. Maybe she did not think about this. You might want to offer some suggestions on how she can keep her ds safe. Some parents really do need to have everything spelled out.

If this does not work, well cross your fingers they really are leaving.


----------



## ChristyMarie (May 31, 2006)

Um...you need to lock your door. Do you have a fence? Lock the gate.

Every time the child shows up, take him by the hand immediately and lead him home. EVERY time.

PITA? Yes. But you cannot allow this child to storm into your house. I cannot imagine allowing someone access to my home in that manner.

When you take him home, state calmly and clearly that he is not welcome in your house unless he is with a parent and invited. After the third time, if this keeps happening I'm afraid I'm going to have to call someone about this. Repeat as necessary then CALL. My gosh, what if he wanders into someone's home who isn't as friendly?

Yes the mother is allowing her child to run wild. But YOU are allowing it to happen in your home.


----------



## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

I keep our doors locked while we are inside.

This is to keep us safe, and to keep my 4 yr old from wandering outside while I am in the bathroom or laundry room.

We live in a busy neighborhood and cars go way too fast on our street.

Lock your doors.


----------



## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristyMarie* 
Um...you need to lock your door. Do you have a fence? Lock the gate.

Every time the child shows up, take him by the hand immediately and lead him home. EVERY time.

PITA? Yes. But you cannot allow this child to storm into your house. I cannot imagine allowing someone access to my home in that manner.

When you take him home, state calmly and clearly that he is not welcome in your house unless he is with a parent and invited. After the third time, if this keeps happening I'm afraid I'm going to have to call someone about this. Repeat as necessary then CALL. My gosh, what if he wanders into someone's home who isn't as friendly?

Yes the mother is allowing her child to run wild. But YOU are allowing it to happen in your home.


Yes. This.


----------



## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

I'm so torn about involving CPS....uuuuhhghgghggg. I know, the kid is taking off from his house and walking a quarter mile down the road...but...ughhh. I don't know. I just think that calling CPS is such a big deal...at the same time, I think of my kid walking a quarter mile from home and I would be FRANTIC....so, that's a big deal too.

I don't know about CPS...you are going to have to trust your gut on that one. I just think that involving them is such a serious thing to do...without being there to REALLY see the tones and energy of what's happening...it's tough.

What I DO know....is that a kid (or any person) bursts into my house...ONE TIME. It doesn't happen again. Period. My reaction to that would be so strong and so clear that I can promise it wouldn't happen again.

I absolutely could NOT, NOT accept that on any level, no matter what age this child is. You burst into my home, we have trouble....you burst into my home and destroy my property...I might call the cops. And I don't even LIKE the cops. If someone burst into my home and started abusing one of my animals....ohhhhh mama...my blood pressure is going up just thinking about that. ARE YOU JOKING? All creatures, human and otherwise, are treated lovingly and with respect in my house...you pee on my cat or throw rocks at my dog, you may as well be doing the same to one of my kids...and I'm ont joking. No, my animals don't wear tiaras or get treated like they are human.....they are treated like animals of this earth, animals we are bound to care for and protect for their lives...you hurt an animal in my house, you never come back to my house again, period. If you do, you are trespassing.

We are very private people and we always respect other peoples privacy and space. Someone bursting into my house...or an adult SO rude, that she would come in and sit down to have a social visit...I wouldn't hesitate to end the friendship...or at least ice it up a little bit, pump the breaks, back off a bit...however you want to say it. I don't want to be around people like that, I don't want that energy in my life and I don't want my kids playing with children who throw rocks at other peoples dogs.

I cannot stand to be around people like that...they sound like they disrespect their kids and people in general. I absolutely hate disliking or not wanting to be around children because of their parents, I think it's unfair...but man, where do you draw the line? I don't want my kids around these parents AT ALL....ugh.

So...yeah, I think you need to have a dead serious conversation with both of these parents at the same time and explain that the way things have been going is not okay and ends IMMEDIATELY....use strong language, make yourself crystal clear and then stick to the boundries you put in place and whatever "or else" action you tell them you will take.

But about CPS...the more I think about it, again I don't have the whole story, but I'd say that;s taking things a bit far at this point.

Oh my geeez...my DH is a patient and loving man....I don't want to think of what might happen...if he discovered that some kid burst into our home and threw rocks at one of our animals....I just can't tell you how serious that would get...you mistreat any living thing in our home or destroy our property...oh man. OOOOHHH man.

Mama....something absolutely must be done about this situation immediately. TODAY...you cannot and should not live like this. Thank HEAVEN these people are leaving for the summer....oh my gosh.


----------



## hippiemommaof4 (Mar 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smithie* 
"I would not call CPS. Why would that be the first choice in handling this?"

Because a toddler is getting out of his house and wandering a quarter of a mile to the OP's house on a regular basis.

The other stuff, I agree, is totally infuriating but not CPS-worthy. The quarter-mile jaunts outside alone? That's how little ones end up drowned in a ditch or, less often, snatched by a pedophile. That is neglect, and it MUST be reported.

Call. Then start documenting. This youngest one, at least, is better off in foster care and has a chance at a good home if it gets to TPR. Hopefully, the parents will respond to this massive wake-up call and mend their ways and it WON'T get to TPR.


Yeah well the youngest may be better off in foster care IYO but they'll more than likely take them all. If they are otherwise decent parents then thats pretty cruel imo taking someones kids is just heartbreaking to them esp if they are just maybe having a lapse in judgement. I dont think its ok for them to take a child at all in that case , maybe a parenting class but thats about it







. I mean most of the parents in my neighborhood know that its relatively safe here , hell I think they're nuts and ALL of my kids even the oldest isnt allowed outside without me at all but I dont call CPS on them and I used to be a military police officer. I'm just vigilant of their kids whenever I can be and they arent supervised, even if it isnt my "job". I live in one of the safest places in the city (military base) and like I said I do not let any of my kids out alone but I respect that my neighbors are comfortable with it even though I dont like it at all.


----------



## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

I have to say...that it scares the pants off of me that so many people on these forums would just jump straight to "call cps" like this....

I mean, we have whole threads here from time to time, dedicated to discussing this topic and EVERY time...it's something like, a poor mama being subjected to the nightmare of CPS because she doesn't vaccinate and is charged with "medical neglect" or because she risks smothering her children for their "evil cosleeping" arragement...or whatever else..and every time, the parents here can't understand how so many people think it's appropriate to call CPS for no other reason than these nosey-nancy's aren't "cool with" our non-mainstream way of living and parenting.

Can't you mamas see, that this is the same thing?

I mean, if these children are REALLY and seriously being abused, that's one thing...but you can't call CPS and bring that hell on a family...no matter how rude or ignorant these people are, just because you dont like their parenting.

She said they hit their kids...okay, like, are these kids bruised...or are these kids SPANKED? I don't think hands are made for any kind of hitting...I believe hands are for loving, stroking and encouraging with "high fives"....but the truth is, spanking children is still very much a popular method of parenting. I don't think anyone here has the right to call CPS for that reason.

This little child is walking a quarter mile from home...yes. But, it sounds like a) the woman lives in a pretty rural area and b) that this kid is busting out of his house and making a beeline for the OPs house...that's a little different than "Every time we go to the grocery store, we see him wandering, miles from home on his own with no idea where he is" - you know? AGAIN, I don't like it...I would be FRANTIC if I didn't know where my three year old was...but I don't believe that is worthy of a CPS call. I just don't.

So...whatever. I think that one of the ways in which things have gone way down hill in this country is because we've allowed government into too many areas of our lives...we don't hesitate to call authorities...and a lot of time, it's really not necessary. CPS has a place...that place is NOT to come and scold a rude woman and her rude husband because they have a wily three year old who likes to escape...should the mama being paying better attention? You better beleive I would be....but I also happen to have a kid sister who, when she was 2.5...learned how to work a door handle. There were MORE than enough people around to make sure she stayed where she should be...but the little rascal was fast and quiet...one minute she was playing nicely with some whatever on the living room floor...the next minute she was GONE. One time, she escaped in the night...she got almost a mile away. My mother was a lot of not nice things to us kids sometimes...but she NEVER lot sight or control of her children...the baby of the family just discovered ways, I'm telling you. Constant flight risk that kid.

Everyone is so quick to jump on the line with CPS and report parenting they don't like...seemingly forgetting that in doing so, they are tying up resources that should be going to helping children who are being severely beaten, molested, starved to death....I mean, there are kids out there who really WOULD be better off in a foster home.

To say that this kid would be better in a foster home, IMHO, sounds harsh, callous and very sheltered. Everyones so quick to scream "CPS!" - until a damn social worker is standing at *your* front door..wondering why you would be so abusive as to medically neglect your children, by non-vax....and why you are depriving your children of socialization by keeping them at home all the time in homeschooling and wants to know why it is you don't take them to the doctors regularly.....hmmmm? What, do you have something to hide...no, well then how come you never let your kids out for school or to go to the doctors...can I see what's going on in there..oh you don't want me inside...Well, why don'tcha? Why dontcha just parent your kids the way we TELL you to?? Huh? Oh yeah, because you have the RIGHT to make the decision not to for YOUR kids.

But when someone picked up the phone and called them on YOU....they didn't think you deserved the right...they might have even said to themselves..."Someone else should be raising those kids......they'd be much better off"

Food for thought, that's all.


----------



## green betty (Jun 13, 2004)

I am extremely CPS wary and it would take a lot for me to call... but frankly, I think I WOULD call about a 3 year old who was free to wander and walked a quarter mile by himself on a regular basis. Gets out by accident a handful of times? No. Does it often and the mother doesn't have any concern about it? Yes. That seems incredibly dangerous/neglectful to me. The issue of the child's fundamental safety would outweight the negative risks of contacting CPS.

I think the chances that the children would be removed for that are mighty slim. It's far, far more likely that a CPS visit would motivate the mom to actually keep an eye on her kids, if only to prevent repeat visits.


----------



## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 
I have to say...that it scares the pants off of me that so many people on these forums would just jump straight to "call cps" like this....

I mean, we have whole threads here from time to time, dedicated to discussing this topic and EVERY time...it's something like, a poor mama being subjected to the nightmare of CPS because she doesn't vaccinate and is charged with "medical neglect" or because she risks smothering her children for their "evil cosleeping" arragement...or whatever else..and every time, the parents here can't understand how so many people think it's appropriate to call CPS for no other reason than these nosey-nancy's aren't "cool with" our non-mainstream way of living and parenting.

Can't you mamas see, that this is the same thing?

I mean, if these children are REALLY and seriously being abused, that's one thing...but you can't call CPS and bring that hell on a family...no matter how rude or ignorant these people are, just because you dont like their parenting.

She said they hit their kids...okay, like, are these kids bruised...or are these kids SPANKED? I don't think hands are made for any kind of hitting...I believe hands are for loving, stroking and encouraging with "high fives"....but the truth is, spanking children is still very much a popular method of parenting. I don't think anyone here has the right to call CPS for that reason.

This little child is walking a quarter mile from home...yes. But, it sounds like a) the woman lives in a pretty rural area and b) that this kid is busting out of his house and making a beeline for the OPs house...that's a little different than "Every time we go to the grocery store, we see him wandering, miles from home on his own with no idea where he is" - you know? AGAIN, I don't like it...I would be FRANTIC if I didn't know where my three year old was...but I don't believe that is worthy of a CPS call. I just don't.

So...whatever. I think that one of the ways in which things have gone way down hill in this country is because we've allowed government into too many areas of our lives...we don't hesitate to call authorities...and a lot of time, it's really not necessary. CPS has a place...that place is NOT to come and scold a rude woman and her rude husband because they have a wily three year old who likes to escape...should the mama being paying better attention? You better beleive I would be....but I also happen to have a kid sister who, when she was 2.5...learned how to work a door handle. There were MORE than enough people around to make sure she stayed where she should be...but the little rascal was fast and quiet...one minute she was playing nicely with some whatever on the living room floor...the next minute she was GONE. One time, she escaped in the night...she got almost a mile away. My mother was a lot of not nice things to us kids sometimes...but she NEVER lot sight or control of her children...the baby of the family just discovered ways, I'm telling you. Constant flight risk that kid.

Everyone is so quick to jump on the line with CPS and report parenting they don't like...seemingly forgetting that in doing so, they are tying up resources that should be going to helping children who are being severely beaten, molested, starved to death....I mean, there are kids out there who really WOULD be better off in a foster home.

To say that this kid would be better in a foster home, IMHO, sounds harsh, callous and very sheltered. Everyones so quick to scream "CPS!" - until a damn social worker is standing at *your* front door..wondering why you would be so abusive as to medically neglect your children, by non-vax....and why you are depriving your children of socialization by keeping them at home all the time in homeschooling and wants to know why it is you don't take them to the doctors regularly.....hmmmm? What, do you have something to hide...no, well then how come you never let your kids out for school or to go to the doctors...can I see what's going on in there..oh you don't want me inside...Well, why don'tcha? Why dontcha just parent your kids the way we TELL you to?? Huh? Oh yeah, because you have the RIGHT to make the decision not to for YOUR kids.

But when someone picked up the phone and called them on YOU....they didn't think you deserved the right...they might have even said to themselves..."Someone else should be raising those kids......they'd be much better off"

Food for thought, that's all.


You said everything I was thinking only I am too chicken to say it. These type threads tend to go downhill very quickly.


----------



## hippiemommaof4 (Mar 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *green betty* 
I am extremely CPS wary and it would take a lot for me to call... but frankly, I think I WOULD call about a 3 year old who was free to wander and walked a quarter mile by himself on a regular basis. Gets out by accident a handful of times? No. Does it often and the mother doesn't have any concern about it? Yes. That seems incredibly dangerous/neglectful to me. The issue of the child's fundamental safety would outweight the negative risks of contacting CPS.

I think the chances that the children would be removed for that are mighty slim. It's far, far more likely that a CPS visit would motivate the mom to actually keep an eye on her kids, if only to prevent repeat visits.

why not just talk to the lady first maybe she doesnt see anything wrong with it and obviously at this point she probably assumes he's going to go to this persons house anyway when he does get out...why does one automatically need CPS as motivation ? I think its ridiculous to just say oh call cps, call cps, call cps...when if you are concerned you can just go talk to the person and let them know that someone else might call on them if they see that and they might want to be careful with him getting out and doing that? Its not that hard, I mean I guess its easier to do something like call cps but why do that first? It seems really wrong to me. I wouldnt want CPS involved in anyones lives unless I was absolutely 100000000% sure they could benefit from it and that would, so in this case no.


----------



## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

I'm not going to call CPS. To clarify earlier when I said I am thinking of calling someone I meant I was considering calling the police if I kept seeing him unsupervised over and over with no concern from mom.

Also we do live in a rural area, the only other house this little guy passes on the way over ironically belongs to the sheriff. There are not many cars going up and down our dirt roads, but there is also no posted speed limit and cars really fly when they do. I am going to go to the BBQ tonight. I am so awful at confrontation, but I guess thats why I tend to get walked all over.

I think I will just suck it up untill they leave and hope for the best when they get back, cross that bridge when we get there. But again I do not think this is a CPS situation. The kids are fed, clothed, and not beaten. I really think mom is depressed and the kids are bored out of their minds.


----------



## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Agatha_Ann* 
I'm not going to call CPS. To clarify earlier when I said I am thinking of calling someone I meant I was considering calling the police if I kept seeing him unsupervised over and over with no concern from mom.

Also we do live in a rural area, the only other house this little guy passes on the way over ironically belongs to the sheriff. There are not many cars going up and down our dirt roads, but there is also no posted speed limit and cars really fly when they do. I am going to go to the BBQ tonight. I am so awful at confrontation, but I guess thats why I tend to get walked all over.

I think I will just suck it up untill they leave and hope for the best when they get back, cross that bridge when we get there. But again I do not think this is a CPS situation. The kids are fed, clothed, and not beaten. *I really think mom is depressed and the kids are bored out of their minds*.

This is very sad...both for what the mom is missing out on..and the poor kids. I wish there were a way that this mother could get some help? Maybe she doesn't even know what's wrong with her?

I know YOU weren't saying "I'm calling cps"...I was just suprised at the number of people who did say that.

Don't worry honey....you have a right to assert yourself in a situation where someone is not respecting your property and especially your animals. What you have been living with is, in my opinion, un-livable..you cann't continue on this way, you know?

GL...you're going to do fine!!


----------



## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"Can't you mamas see, that this is the same thing?"

Cosleeping, nonvaxing and losing track of a toddler to the point where he repeatedly ends up a quarter mile down the street? Nope. Not the same thing. Not in the same _universe_.

We recently had a thread started by a mother who ended up with CPS at her door after her toddler ran down the street with her chasing right after him, carrying the newborn. Do you not see how THAT was a frivolous report, and THIS would not be? All ethical considerations aside, this situation (repeatedly losing the child, not the spanking and rudeness etc.) meets the legal definition of neglect. This toddler faces a real and persistent risk of death if his parents don't make changes in their supervision, childproofing etc. to keep him from leaving their property.

OP, you're the one who lives there and you're the one who's best qualified to judge what's right to do. And you've also had experience with toddlers. If YOU were the mom who had something going on (depression, ignorance, whatever) where your kid was being repeatedly put at this level of risk, how would you want the neighbors to react? If my neighbors had reason to believe that my 3-year-old was regularly cruising the neighborhood entirely unsupervised and I didn't even know she was gone, I sincerely hope that they would turn my sorry self in, because there would be something badly wrong in my life that was causing me to neglect my child.

(I have a 3-year-old, BTW, so this issue hits pretty close to home for me.)


----------



## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

I think you should tell the mom, in no uncertain terms, that the way her 3 year old runs around without the family even knowing where he is, is terrifying and seems negligent to you, and that if you see him wandering in your yard, uninvited and unsupervised again, you will be calling the police. The next time, it will be CPS. Tell her that you are sure the mother loves her children, but that it really upsets you to see this happening over and over, and you are terrified for the safety of the little boy.

If you can look up convicted sex offenders in your area, and use some as examples of why the boy should be supervised, it would be even better.


----------



## CorasMama (May 10, 2002)

Wow. This whole story is just so... incredible! It's almost as though they meet some checklist for Bad Families!

Also, how is it they're affording to go away for a whole summer if all they have is welfare? I mean, it's not only that it is not enough money to just plain live on, much less take vacations on, and throw barbeques with. Especially since your food stamp benefits don't usually work out-of-state. It's also that, most, if not all, states now have a requirement that adult welfare recipients are either looking for work, working, or in job training. I'm baffled that they'd be able to meet the requirements for a whole summer w/o losing their benefits.


----------



## Eligracey (Apr 28, 2009)

If you call the cops as you say you're thinking of doing, they'll just call CPS. If you call CPS, the mom won't find out it was you. This would fall under the neglect track in CPS and would most likely result in parenting classes and therapy for the mom. Isn't that the best outcome for everyone? This kid is coming to your house as a cry for help--please DON'T lock your door and ignore the cry.


----------



## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CorasMama* 
Wow. This whole story is just so... incredible! It's almost as though they meet some checklist for Bad Families!

Also, how is it they're affording to go away for a whole summer if all they have is welfare? I mean, it's not only that it is not enough money to just plain live on, much less take vacations on, and throw barbeques with. Especially since your food stamp benefits don't usually work out-of-state. It's also that, most, if not all, states now have a requirement that adult welfare recipients are either looking for work, working, or in job training. I'm baffled that they'd be able to meet the requirements for a whole summer w/o losing their benefits.

It's not a vacation, they are moving in with his parents for the summer. And the BBQ was paid with food stamps. It was discussed that they had $360 left so they bought the BBQ stuff and are filling coolers to take with them. Someone had brought a dog and they threw him a hamburger "on the state".

They are leaving on Monday so I'm just going to hope for the best when they come back. Thanks for letting me vent.


----------



## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smithie* 
"Can't you mamas see, that this is the same thing?"

Cosleeping, nonvaxing and losing track of a toddler to the point where he repeatedly ends up a quarter mile down the street? Nope. Not the same thing. Not in the same _universe_.

We recently had a thread started by a mother who ended up with CPS at her door after her toddler ran down the street with her chasing right after him, carrying the newborn. Do you not see how THAT was a frivolous report, and THIS would not be? All ethical considerations aside, this situation (repeatedly losing the child, not the spanking and rudeness etc.) meets the legal definition of neglect. This toddler faces a real and persistent risk of death if his parents don't make changes in their supervision, childproofing etc. to keep him from leaving their property.

OP, you're the one who lives there and you're the one who's best qualified to judge what's right to do. And you've also had experience with toddlers. If YOU were the mom who had something going on (depression, ignorance, whatever) where your kid was being repeatedly put at this level of risk, how would you want the neighbors to react? If my neighbors had reason to believe that my 3-year-old was regularly cruising the neighborhood entirely unsupervised and I didn't even know she was gone, I sincerely hope that they would turn my sorry self in, because there would be something badly wrong in my life that was causing me to neglect my child.

(I have a 3-year-old, BTW, so this issue hits pretty close to home for me.)


I completely agree. Thank you.


----------



## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smithie* 
"Can't you mamas see, that this is the same thing?"

*Cosleeping, nonvaxing and losing track of a toddler to the point where he repeatedly ends up a quarter mile down the street? Nope. Not the same thing.* Not in the same _universe_.

We recently had a thread started by a mother who ended up with CPS at her door after her toddler ran down the street with her chasing right after him, carrying the newborn. Do you not see how THAT was a frivolous report, and THIS would not be? All ethical considerations aside, this situation (repeatedly losing the child, not the spanking and rudeness etc.) meets the legal definition of neglect. This toddler faces a real and persistent risk of death if his parents don't make changes in their supervision, childproofing etc. to keep him from leaving their property.

OP, you're the one who lives there and you're the one who's best qualified to judge what's right to do. And you've also had experience with toddlers. If YOU were the mom who had something going on (depression, ignorance, whatever) where your kid was being repeatedly put at this level of risk, how would you want the neighbors to react? If my neighbors had reason to believe that my 3-year-old was regularly cruising the neighborhood entirely unsupervised and I didn't even know she was gone, I sincerely hope that they would turn my sorry self in, because there would be something badly wrong in my life that was causing me to neglect my child.

(I have a 3-year-old, BTW, so this issue hits pretty close to home for me.)

Bolded = RIGHT...and **I** agree with you. BUT....I am not the parent of this child. *I* view no-vax and cosleeping as two wonderful gifts, born out of educating myself, that I can give my child. Others (some of these people are doctors, nurses, scientists, social workers) see my decisions to reject vax, cosleep, etc...not just as irresponsible...but as DANGEROUS. They see those loving choices, as remarkable failures in parenting. But they are my CHOICE.

**I** would be beyond frantic, beyond mortified and completely shaken, if I discovered my smal child got loose and ended up down the road a ways.

BUT...I also spent some of my youth living in very rural areas where young, young children could be seen walking all around. A young kid walking down the street to meet up with a friend was not a big deal...as the OP has described her environment as very rural...I think she said there is one house along the way, on this quarter mile trip from their house to hers...I think these parents probably have an extremely lax attitude because, in part, of their surroundings.

The OP should have complete control in regards to who gains entry and in what manner, to her home. but I don't think it's any of our place to call CPS for that reason alone. Like I said...if this kid was wandering aimlessly on city streets...or in grocery store parking lots, that'd be one thing. But it is clear: This child would rather be at the OPs house and so, escapes and heads directly for her house. There IS a difference there.

For those of you who would actually begin to say "Let CPS take her kids, they'd be much better off in a foster home" - I have no words, that's just wrong. But for those of you who say "well all CPS is gonna do is give the woman counseling" - takea look around you. Reread the loooong threads on CPS situations that mamas here have faced.

BEST case scenario...CPS comes into these people lives, examines every bit of it and doesn't find anything else they don't like...get the woman some parenting classes, therapy and shadow her for a good long time to make sure she is meeting their standards of parenting. BEST. the alternative to this best case scenario....if they find "other things" - like, the woman who had a SW tell her that the stains in her rugs were dangerous, because they were giving off fumes, or whatever - this could go really down hill really quick.

It's none of your business. What happens in your home - your business. The parenting styles of the people down the street, not your business. ACTUAL abuse, kids in REAL danger at the hands of their parents, kids being starved?? Your business. The OP stated that these children are fed, have shelter, etc...they aren't being neglected. Okay, they aren't being played with by an enthusiastic mother...they aren't as lucky as so many of OUR kids, to have parents who want to raise them with love, compassion, gentle wisdom and whole foods...but that doesn't mean we get to call CPS on them. You want to know what I think is terrible abuse?? Parents who stuff their kids to the gills with horrendous fast food, nothing but coke to drink...sugar sugar sugar and video games all day. I see that as 100000% worse than what the OP described as the situation these kids are living in. And the kids who are being fed these rotten, poisonous foods...there is actual scietific evidence, to support how very very bad for them it actually is. You don't have to guess or assume...you can see what this lifestyle is doing to these children. Do we call CPS on THOSE parents?? Why not? Oh...because they have a choice to feed their kids whatever they want...and because they're ignorant most of the time, to how truly terrible it is. Right? Well...guess what. these parents think it's funny whentheir kids runs down the old dirt road...because they think it's just a rural back road, and after all....he's just beelining it for his friends house! <--- Oh looky there, ignorance and parenting choices! Just like the kids being fed crap EVERY DAY of their lives...just like the mom who smacks her kid on the face in the grocery store, just like the people down the street who let their kids fight like wild dogs and laugh....just like the parents who are drunk every night (their kids are sleeping, yeah, but what if one of them passes out with a cigarette in his mouth and burns the house down?? Whos fault is that?)....all of these scenarios...we shudder, we hold out own kid a little closer, glad that they have us to love them and care for them gently...to make our whole life about them...but we must practice radical acceptance..and move on. Because it's not our place to report these people...it's not the job of CPS to come and do something about these situations.

So much of what's wrong with us, has to do with this idotic culture of ours, which is so fixated on what other people are doing. We have become a nation of stone throwers and judgement makers. All you have to do is say "but it's for the children!" - and automatically, it's okay.

You wanna save some kids?? You wanna make a difference in the life of a kid who really, REALLY needs it?? Because there are children out there, who have caretakers TRULY deserving of your scorn, truly deserving of your judgement...there are millions, upon millions of kids in this world, who require the kind of obsession that we are so willing to spend on our neighbors....but can't seem to muster up for kids who are starving to death, or dying of AIDS...or whatever else.

These parents, don't consider it a super big deal, that their kid gets loose and makes a beeline down a country road to the neighbors house. *I* think it's a big deal....but Mr. Bob Marley spoke some true words once, which I recall and take to heart from time to time: _While you're pointing fingers, someone else is judging you._ So....yes. Whether the social worker is standing at your front door because you choose not to vax and a "concerned" nurse at your HCPs office made a call...or because your neighbor decided that you are way too comfortable with your kids straying further from home than you'd ever let your kids go alone...it's the same thing. Somebody got nosey, and decided to make it her business....and it wasn't.

Oh....and I have a one year old...so it hits close to home for me. Anyone who has a kid...it's gonna hit close to home. I'm not sure what that comment even meant....you're in a better place to judge these parents, because you have a three year old?? We all here, know that a three year old is a baby....that a three year old cannot be left to his own devices and CERTAINLY not outside the home unsupervised...but you know what? Some people DON'T think that. Some people think that three years old is NOT a baby anymore. It's true. Three years old is not so small to some people....I grimace thinking that someone could think that, but it's true.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smithie* 
If my neighbors had reason to believe that my 3-year-old was regularly cruising the neighborhood entirely unsupervised and I didn't even know she was gone, I sincerely hope that they would turn my sorry self in, because there would be something badly wrong in my life that was causing me to neglect my child.











Absolutely! I am floored that there are people who think this kind of neglect is OK!


----------



## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D_McG* 









Absolutely! I am floored that there are people who think this kind of neglect is OK!

Nobody thinks it's okay.

I just think it's criminally insane, that it would cause anyone to think that this kid would be better off in a foster home. Yeah, if you missed those couple of posts..go back and read them.

This is NOT a CPS worthy call....but you know what, maybe you guys are right. You know what I think is wrong??? Circumcision. That's right...I believe that it is genital mutilation..ACTUAL genital mutilation...oh my god, can you imagine that?? Can you imagine NOT calling CPS, when you discover that your neighbors plan to genitally mutilate their son??? What? What's that you say?? Oh...CPS would laugh me out of town if I called for that reason?? Yeah..you're right, they would. Because as screwed up as some of us think it is, circ is ACTUALLY considered okay. It;s not okay with ME....but I have to deal with the fact that some people are cool with slicing at their sons penis.

Maybe my venom on this topic, is as a result of coming from a childhood of ACTUAL abuse. You know what three year olds were doing in MY house growing up?? They were being choked until they passed out, for staining their clothes. Three year olds in my house were walking quietly up and down stairs until they collapsed....to "teach" us to walk more quietly next time. Three year olds in my house, were standing in corners until our legs went numb and fell out from underneath us...because my mother was going to "get to the bottom of" who it was, who spilled water on the floor. The list goes on....as the oldest kid in the house, I saw the younger ones enduring impossible situations...I can only imagine what MY toddler life was like, when I was the only one around, to bear the brunt of it.

And you know what? When CPS came to my house, after school officials could clearly see that something wasn't right at home....you know what happened? The SW looked around at the priceless, beautiful objects, the pricey neighborhood and shiny car....they saw my charming (psychopathic) mother, ate her cookies or whatever....and decided that clearly, there was nothing wrong in this home.

So maybe it's just that I lack complete faith in the system...maybe that's it....but I truly think that you people with CPS on speed dial are making a huge mistake by inserting yourselves in such a manner into the lives of other people.

This home...is a home I wouldn't want my kid living in. But then...I could say that about a lot of homes.

I can think of ten homes off the top of my head, which are worse than the one the OP described in her first post....and you know what? I'd love to save all those kids from a life not filled with AP, GD, etc....but it's not. my. place.

CPS is for abuse....not to be the Parenting Police. But watch yourselves...because if you allow them to be that...they will gladly accept the funding and will merrily be on their way to YOUR home to discuss some of your "less conventional" parenting choices.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

I'm sorry your suffered such horrific abuse and that CPS did not help.

Allowing a 3 year old out unattended is not a 'parenting choice'. It's neglect.


----------



## lovebug (Nov 2, 2004)

This sucks mama I am sorry&#8230;









What I will say is if that child came into my house, poured a box of cereal out and peed on my cat&#8230; I sure as heaven WOULD NOT let the mother laugh! i would say something like ' can you please tell me what you think is so funny' I would have her butt over to my place to clean it all up. I would MAKE sure that I was clear as day in the fact that her child is acting very inappropriate and that her actions were no better in laughing! The 3yo's actions are alarming enough, but the mothers&#8230; ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? She is out of touch and really needs a wake up call! If it were me I would give it to her without CPS first. If she just does not get it then I would re-think my approach...


----------



## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D_McG* 
I'm sorry your suffered such horrific abuse and that CPS did not help.

Allowing a 3 year old out unattended is not a 'parenting choice'. It's neglect.

Non-Vax = Medical Neglect of the most severe kind.

Circ = Genital Mutilation

Fast Food Junkies = Slow Poisoners of their children.

Co-Sleep = High Risk of suffocation and, in some people's mind, a situation of a somewhat fishy (sexually) nature.

Spanking = Abuse...in my mind, what about yours?

CIO = Huge neglect and Abuse at the same time

Blanket Training of small infants w/hitting = Pure Evil

The list goes on...where do we draw the line? When do we call...and when do we mind our own business? When do we risk turning these peoples lives into a living hell at the hands of SWs who really don't care how these people are effected...and when do we have a stern talk with the mom ourself and make it clear that this child coming over will no longer be tolerated?

If this situation, described by the OP, is one in which you feel she is morally obligated to call CPS....you had better get busy dialin' lady....or, could it be, that you are so hypocritical and are so lacking in ethics...that you wouldn't start calling on allllll those parents who are doing some or all of what I outlined in the first part of the post?

It is a slipperly slope we travel, when we go out to save al the world, based on our own beliefs and moral judgement. Again....my three year old escapes my house ONE time, and I'm frightened to death that she managed it....but this is not my, nor your, three year old....and it is not abusive of this mother, to think that it is okay for her son to run down their back country road to the neighbors house he'd rather be at because he's bored out of his skull.

I have dishes I need to finish before my baby wakes up...so I'm going to try to stay away until they are done. But it makes me so crazy that so many people are wondering how someone thinks they have the right to call on one of us, because we don't vax or whatever else...and then can turn around and look at this situation and think "Yeah, CPS should take these kids...they'd be better off somewhere else". Meanwhile...there is a kid out there screaming out in his heart for an end to his abuse...who doesn't have a prayer. I wonder if he;ll die waiting for that help? Or maybe not...maybe he'll grow up to beat the life out of his own kid, because nobody gave a crap what HIS life was like....too busy focusing on the crappy parenting down the street, to take all the moral outrage and do something effective with it.


----------



## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

OP -- I think you are right in just riding it out at this time. Maybe when they come back the little boy will have grown up a bit and it will be less of a problem. If its not, then I would establish and enforce some solid boundaries. I think I would return the child to his mother every time he arrives, saying something like "I'm sorry, B is not welcome at our home because he is too destructive" or "violent with our pets". Keep your doors locked as much as possible, but do not allow him in to play. If the mother comes for him, do not let her in the door. Or if she barges in, take her by the arm, gently lead her to the door, hand her B's hand and say "Thank you for coming and getting him. Goodbye" and close the door. You do not have to allow these people into your home. Period.

That said, I think not an ounce of this is CPS worthy. IMHO, at what age a child is allowed to walk down the street alone is a parental decision, not a state one and certainly not a neighborly one. I allowed my 3 YO to walk two houses down and find out if a playmate could play. She was capable of doing this and I was comfortable with it. Hitting is not abuse in the eyes of the state either. WE here at MDC think it is a pretty poor parenting, but it isn't something that CPS is going to act on. If we expect the state to leave us alone to make our own parenting decisions, we must be willing to allow "the other side" to do so as well. Sure, we disagree with some practices but to invite the state in because WE think its wrong seems like an open invitation for others to do so to us.


----------



## CheapPearls (Aug 7, 2007)

I wonder a bit if the 3 year old will still be alive when they come back. If where they are moving to for the summer is a far busier neighborhood and he continues to escape, the risk of being hit by a car, snatched, etc go up.

I wouldn't call CPS but I would definitely take the mother aside, before they leave, and scare the crap out of her with what could happen to her child. At least then regardless of what happens you tried.


----------



## RoseDuperre (Oct 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 
Non-Vax = Medical Neglect of the most severe kind.

Circ = Genital Mutilation

Fast Food Junkies = Slow Poisoners of their children.

Co-Sleep = High Risk of suffocation and, in some people's mind, a situation of a somewhat fishy (sexually) nature.

Spanking = Abuse...in my mind, what about yours?

CIO = Huge neglect and Abuse at the same time

Blanket Training of small infants w/hitting = Pure Evil

The list goes on...where do we draw the line? When do we call...and when do we mind our own business? When do we risk turning these peoples lives into a living hell at the hands of SWs who really don't care how these people are effected...and when do we have a stern talk with the mom ourself and make it clear that this child coming over will no longer be tolerated?

If this situation, described by the OP, is one in which you feel she is morally obligated to call CPS....you had better get busy dialin' lady....or, could it be, that you are so hypocritical and are so lacking in ethics...that you wouldn't start calling on allllll those parents who are doing some or all of what I outlined in the first part of the post?

It is a slipperly slope we travel, when we go out to save al the world, based on our own beliefs and moral judgement. Again....my three year old escapes my house ONE time, and I'm frightened to death that she managed it....but this is not my, nor your, three year old....and it is not abusive of this mother, to think that it is okay for her son to run down their back country road to the neighbors house he'd rather be at because he's bored out of his skull.

I have dishes I need to finish before my baby wakes up...so I'm going to try to stay away until they are done. But it makes me so crazy that so many people are wondering how someone thinks they have the right to call on one of us, because we don't vax or whatever else...and then can turn around and look at this situation and think "Yeah, CPS should take these kids...they'd be better off somewhere else". Meanwhile...there is a kid out there screaming out in his heart for an end to his abuse...who doesn't have a prayer. I wonder if he;ll die waiting for that help? Or maybe not...maybe he'll grow up to beat the life out of his own kid, because nobody gave a crap what HIS life was like....too busy focusing on the crappy parenting down the street, to take all the moral outrage and do something effective with it.

REALLY well-put.

OP, I feel for both you and the little boy. Not to mention the cat. I hope you're able to establish better boundaries when they return!


----------



## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

A three yr. old child is in another familys home and his mom doesn't even know he left the house?!









Call CPS while he's still alive. Really.

Signed,

An anti CPS zealot


----------



## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

"The list goes on...where do we draw the line? When do we call..."

When I think the child might die if I don't. That's where I draw the line. If I knew that some rich psycho was choking out her toddlers inside her beautiful home, I would certainly make the call, and I'm very sorry that somebody here suffered through that kind of hell.










I have never called CPS in my life, because I've never encountered a situation IRL where I thought the child's life was literally at stake. Such situations do exist, though.


----------



## hippiemommaof4 (Mar 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D_McG* 









Absolutely! I am floored that there are people who think this kind of neglect is OK!

Umm where did anyone say it was ok on this thread? Noone said that, so lets just clear that up. Many people in my neighborhood do it and no I dont sit on the phone with CPS *gasp* are you kidding me? I would be here all day calling on people LOL... do I like that they are ok with their kids doing it umm no, I dont! I am not the neighborhood police (even though I used to be a military police officer) I am not going to have a kid possibly taken from an otherwise loving family or be responsible for CPS keeping tabs on them for months for a lapse in judgement, when I can be the better person and grow a backbone and have a talk with these people instead. Most people are eternally greatful if you do that instead of getting the law or the government involved in their lives...most of them just need a wakeup pep talk.

You know what the military police would do here if we called them for something like this? nothing, warn them first and thats about it. Its really common in tight knit neighborhoods that I have lived in,where people have a lot of kids for this to happen. Most of the kids I know are running in and out all day and evening going a block over or more to get other kids...its just normal where I live for most.


----------



## phrogger (Oct 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hippiemommaof4* 
You know what the military police would do here if we called them for something like this? nothing, warn them first and thats about it. Its really common in tight knit neighborhoods that I have lived in,where people have a lot of kids for this to happen. Most of the kids I know are running in and out all day and evening going a block over or more to get other kids...its just normal where I live for most.

I don't know what kind of base you live on, but here, if it were a 3 year old going a 1/4 mile down the street, breaking into houses, pissing on cats and throwing rocks at dog, FFS would be called and they would conduct a CPS investigation.

Honestly, if this isn't abuse and this doesn't warrant a call to CPS, what does? The mom knows this is an issue, the mom knows her kid keeps doing it, she keeps allowing it to happen.

My step son got out ONCE, ONE TIME at 2 years old and his mother lost custody. My husband almost didn't get to keep him, but thankfully he was able to prove he was moving out of state and that he was taking the child and the mother would not have anything less then supervised visitation. My step son wasn't even aggressive or even in someones house, he was just walking down the street. And yes, it was totally neglect on his mothers part, she didn't notice for 45 minutes.

We aren't talking a 3 year old that snuck out and you can see a frantic mom searching for him, this is a mom who is laughing it off like it is even remotely acceptable.


----------



## lovebug (Nov 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phrogger* 
I don't know what kind of base you live on, but here, if it were a 3 year old going a 1/4 mile down the street, breaking into houses, pissing on cats and throwing rocks at dog, FFS would be called and they would conduct a CPS investigation.

Honestly, if this isn't abuse and this doesn't warrant a call to CPS, what does? The mom knows this is an issue, the mom knows her kid keeps doing it, she keeps allowing it to happen.

My step son got out ONCE, ONE TIME at 2 years old and his mother lost custody. My husband almost didn't get to keep him, but thankfully he was able to prove he was moving out of state and that he was taking the child and the mother would not have anything less then supervised visitation. My step son wasn't even aggressive or even in someones house, he was just walking down the street. And yes, it was totally neglect on his mothers part, she didn't notice for 45 minutes.

We aren't talking a 3 year old that snuck out and you can see a frantic mom searching for him, this is a mom who is laughing it off like it is even remotely acceptable.

yep here at Fort Carson too! the mom and dad you be put through the ringer!!!!


----------



## hippiemommaof4 (Mar 31, 2008)

all the bases i have lived on and worked on were like that so its not some bs I'm making up I used to do that job as an MP lol! I wanted to also add that it does NOT mean that we didnt write a report on the calls or that they dont, because that always happens just for documentation of the call.Provided they show up and the kid is just being severly abused etc. then the first call may warrant a cps visit. If people actually call repeatedly would something then be persued, probably after a while but it just depends. As a matter of fact my neighbors 3 yr old was just out technically alone (older sibling 6-8 obviously NOt watchng him) the other day and got hit on his trike by a lady not paying attention (he was fine) but the MPs were called no cps at all. soo yep normal stuff where i have lived...oh and i've been a spouse for 7 yrs and i was active duty three years before that so 10 yrs 4 different bases. I'm sorry but them taking kids for just one call is INSANE and abuse of power IMHO! A parenting class I can see, taking a kid ummm no...there would have to be other issues for me to EVER agree to that.
nak


----------



## hippiemommaof4 (Mar 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phrogger* 
I don't k

We aren't talking a 3 year old that snuck out and you can see a frantic mom searching for him, this is a mom who is laughing it off like it is even remotely acceptable.


so what do you think the mom should do to keep him from doing it...because kids do get out even with extremely vigilant parents... we had a neighbor growing up whos severe special needs kid would get out and come in our house all the time growing up , they werent crappy parents they came and got him and took him home my dad never called cps. oh and once he came in and destroyed my bedroom my dad was upset and still never called not even once! he was just too fast for them to catch him and you cant always prevent it. it was never made out to be this huge fiasco.


----------



## Kinguk (Jun 26, 2008)

I live in British Columbia, Canada. By law, every citizen is required to contact the Ministry of Children and Families if they _suspect child abuse. That is because too many people turn a blind eye to abuse.

I am not saying your turning a blind eye by any means but the children are in a dangerous situation. I'm concerned with the three year old leaving home on his own -- kidnapping, cars, vicous dogs even, heck he could get stung by a bee and no one would know he had an allergic reaction. Because you are aware of what is going on, you could be held accountable.

The child's basic needs are not being met -- safety being the main one. I would call child services. That does not mean they are going to take the children away but they will investigate the situation and do what they need to do to help the family work together.

I'm sorry you're in such a horrible situation. I would definitely notify CPS. It is a completely confidential process and you will probably feel good about it afterwards. Also, as far as the law goes, you will not be liable if something does happen while that little one is wandering freely through the neighbourhood._


----------



## hippiemommaof4 (Mar 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 
Nobody thinks it's okay.

I just think it's criminally insane, that it would cause anyone to think that this kid would be better off in a foster home. Yeah, if you missed those couple of posts..go back and read them.

This is NOT a CPS worthy call....but you know what, maybe you guys are right. You know what I think is wrong??? Circumcision. That's right...I believe that it is genital mutilation..ACTUAL genital mutilation...oh my god, can you imagine that?? Can you imagine NOT calling CPS, when you discover that your neighbors plan to genitally mutilate their son??? What? What's that you say?? Oh...CPS would laugh me out of town if I called for that reason?? Yeah..you're right, they would. Because as screwed up as some of us think it is, circ is ACTUALLY considered okay. It;s not okay with ME....but I have to deal with the fact that some people are cool with slicing at their sons penis.

Maybe my venom on this topic, is as a result of coming from a childhood of ACTUAL abuse. You know what three year olds were doing in MY house growing up?? They were being choked until they passed out, for staining their clothes. Three year olds in my house were walking quietly up and down stairs until they collapsed....to "teach" us to walk more quietly next time. Three year olds in my house, were standing in corners until our legs went numb and fell out from underneath us...because my mother was going to "get to the bottom of" who it was, who spilled water on the floor. The list goes on....as the oldest kid in the house, I saw the younger ones enduring impossible situations...I can only imagine what MY toddler life was like, when I was the only one around, to bear the brunt of it.

And you know what? When CPS came to my house, after school officials could clearly see that something wasn't right at home....you know what happened? The SW looked around at the priceless, beautiful objects, the pricey neighborhood and shiny car....they saw my charming (psychopathic) mother, ate her cookies or whatever....and decided that clearly, there was nothing wrong in this home.

So maybe it's just that I lack complete faith in the system...maybe that's it....but I truly think that you people with CPS on speed dial are making a huge mistake by inserting yourselves in such a manner into the lives of other people.

This home...is a home I wouldn't want my kid living in. But then...I could say that about a lot of homes.

I can think of ten homes off the top of my head, which are worse than the one the OP described in her first post....and you know what? I'd love to save all those kids from a life not filled with AP, GD, etc....but it's not. my. place.

CPS is for abuse....not to be the Parenting Police. But watch yourselves...because if you allow them to be that...they will gladly accept the funding and will merrily be on their way to YOUR home to discuss some of your "less conventional" parenting choices.










sorry that happend to you though mama


----------



## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

When kids start dropping dead immediately after consuming a Happy Meal at McDonald's, then I'll equate that as evil as allowing a 3 year old to wander the streets alone to break into someone's home.
But I am reasonably certain that the next child to pop up on my News @ AOL, isn't going to be there because of a disgusting hamburger. He/she is going to be in the news because some







parent wasn't doing their job - just like the mama in this post isn't.


----------



## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hippiemommaof4* 








sorry that happend to you though mama









You know..humans have such fragile minds and are capable of becoming damaged so easily...the trick about us, is that we have amazingly strong spirits...and can be quite lion-hearted as children.

For all the healing I thought I did in therapy....my heart and mind have been repaired a thousand times over, in the simple, daily act of parenting my own child with love and compassion. Loving her, committing myself to mothering her the way I wish I had been mothered...has healed so much of what was left broken for me.

And you know....if I had to go through, what I went through...so that I could break free from mainstream parenting (long before I even had kids) and try to find another way...well then, okay. Seeing my daughter grow and learn in an environment so peaceful and full of love tickles me...and I feel blessed and honored to be able to experience it as her parent.

What a life....what a life!!!







:


----------



## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer3141* 
When kids start dropping dead immediately after consuming a Happy Meal at McDonald's, then I'll equate that as evil as allowing a 3 year old to wander the streets alone to break into someone's home.
But I am reasonably certain that the next child to pop up on my News @ AOL, isn't going to be there because of a disgusting hamburger. He/she is going to be in the news because some







parent wasn't doing their job - just like the mama in this post isn't.


The three year old isn't wandering the streets alone breaking into random houses. Lets not paint a picture of this kid strolling the asphalt of a major city, alone, with bums and gangsters hovering around him....and horns blaring and prostitutes showcasing their wears...that is not the case. It may as well be if it's MY kid, because I don't want my three year old ANYWHERE alone....but these parents aren't letting their kid loose on the city....

The three year old is escaping because he's bored by a parent who doesn't care to play with him and so, slips out and makes a beeline down a country road to his friends home...where, unfortunatey, he begins to behave in ways *I* find atrocious, but which are obviously tolerated as normal in his home.

I see the OPs duty, in this circumstance, as protecting the peace and tranquility of her own home...which means a stern talk with the parents, to prevent them from taking lightly their son bursting into the home and disrupting their lives. If you re-read my first post in this thread, you will see that my strong language and crystal clear bewilderment at such a thing happening in the OPs home, clearly does not support what this family is allowing their three year old to do...furthermore, to be quite frank, it makes me ill to think that this boy is being raised in a home where he could be so badly parented as to turn to abusing animals for relief/satisfaction/play, etc...I just haven't ever met a healthy three year old who would engage in outright torture of animals.

HOWEVER....as I stated before...coming from a youth spent partially in southern, rural areas...I can atest to the fact that there are a great many American children, living in rural areas, where it is still perfectly acceptable to be out and about, sometimes for hours at a time...sometimes walking down the street, sometimes going to a friends house...sometimes going so far as to travel into the woods, or visit a stream...all without the supervision of an adult. There are places in America which have not caught up with "the times" and view a kid old enough to walk, as old enough to play in the yard alone, with maybe a parent viewing from the kitchen window...and a child old enough to walk, talk, use a potty, etc....as old enough to have a bit more freedom than that.

I am sure that these people, living in this rural area, with no one but the sheriff and the OP sharing this stretch of road with them, believe that their child is just fine to walk the road to her house.

***I*** disagree...but then, AGAIN, many many people would tell you that my daughter is in immediate, daily risk for dying or being injured because of lifestyle choices that I make....which are generally accepted as better choices HERE....but which cause people not in this community to do such stupid, nosey things, as to pick up the phone and call CPS...CERTAIN that my children are living in some kind of terrible home, because of my choices.

All I'm saying is, what these "bad parents" (and I don't believe they are parenting well) are doing, is socially acceptable in many places in this country...and not just by terrible parents or neglectful mothers...by regular people, who happen to live in small, rural towns and have a higher comfort level because of their location.

BUT.....if it is our duty, anyhow, to call CPS On these people, for doing something that we disagree with...but which is still socially acceptable in some places....who among you "CPS callers" would be so hypocritical, as to not go to your phone and start jotting down the names, addresses and phone numbers of all the people you know who circ their boys, so that you can submit this list to CPS for investigation? HUH? I mean....sure, it's still a socially acceptable practice...but we all know it's wrong, right? So...if it's wrong, it doesn't matter if it's still socially acceptable...we are bound by duty to report it.

Man, you ladies better put your babies down for a nap if you can...if you start making calls to CPS about everything that you know in your heart is wrong and dangerous that you see parents around you choosing to do with their children...well, you're gonna need some time alone to focus.

We live in an era of moral outrage....just, never seems to be directed at the right stuff, the really really serious stuff. I have a real problem with people making it out to be the OPs DUTY as a human being to report this behavior...when there are children starving, beated, used in the sex trade and worked to death as soon as they're big enough to hold a bucket ALL around the world. You know about these children....well, if you know about it and it's wrong...why don't you care enough to turn your moral outrage loose on THOSE situations?

What these parents are doing is stupid, dangerous and wrong....but please, spare me the theatrics...when I can go to Borders and buy a PUBLISHED, WELL READ "parenting book" which instructs parents to do things to their children EVEN MORE stupid, dangerous and wrong.

Horrible parenting is all around us. Abusive parenting techniques, which are viewed as maintream and normal...are all around us. You can punch out the 800 number for CPS, until you're little fingers cramp up and become useless...but a much better way to make a difference in the world, is to focus your attention on your own darling children...on raising them in such a way that they can grow up and make their own loving mark on this earth.


----------



## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 

HOWEVER....as I stated before...coming from a youth spent partially in southern, rural areas...I can atest to the fact that there are a great many American children, living in rural areas, where it is still perfectly acceptable to be out and about, sometimes for hours at a time...sometimes walking down the street, sometimes going to a friends house...sometimes going so far as to travel into the woods, or visit a stream...all without the supervision of an adult. There are places in America which have not caught up with "the times" and view a kid old enough to walk, as old enough to play in the yard alone, with maybe a parent viewing from the kitchen window...and a child old enough to walk, talk, use a potty, etc....as old enough to have a bit more freedom than that.

Yep. That was me growing up. And guess what? My mom was the CPS supervisor in our county and the neighboring county. Things are definitely different in very rural areas. We still live relatively rurally, and my 4 and 7 year-olds play outside and go the the neighbor's and across the road to a gravel-lot to play all the time.

However, if I were the OP and a child was coming to my house and destroying my property, hurting my pets, etc. you'd better believe I'd be having a serious talk with the parents. If they didn't work to change things, I'd seek legal action. That's unacceptable.


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Gosh, maybe if you were a little more welcoming of this child, he wouldnt feel the need to thrust himself on you. Maybe if someone, just someone, would welcome this child, make him feel like he's ok, he wouldnt feel the need to do any of this. You have kids, so your home is probably a safe place for children to be. Cant you just let him hang out with your kids, let them romp around? I dunno....relax a little bit. He's 3. (doesnt mean you should tolerate damaged furniture etc, but nowhere in your post did i see your attempt to make this child feel welcome.)
When kids drop over my house, i like it. They can play with my kids.

As for wandering off, give me as break. It sounds like the country/suburbs. Children can wander out of those kind of houses that are usually open. If he is leaving, maybe he is uncomforatble in his home for some reason. My sister always went over to my neighbours. I think she was overwhelmed by all her siblings, and wanted a different energy. My parents werent negligent. But kids wander off sometimes. Maybe the mother *does* know where he is going, and she is thinking 'pity my neighbour is such a snob that she cant even have my 3 yo at her house...' She sounds like a relaxed kind of person, and to be honest, has a better idea of what children are like that the op. For eg, her statement 'he's so 3' sounds spot on.

Just thought i'd put a different perspective out there.

I like children coming over, so i dont get why its such an issue.
Maya
(with two rambunctious extravertive boys, who like their neighbours dropping by)


----------



## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
Gosh, maybe if you were a little more welcoming of this child, he wouldnt feel the need to thrust himself on you. Maybe if someone, just someone, would welcome this child, make him feel like he's ok, he wouldnt feel the need to do any of this. You have kids, so your home is probably a safe place for children to be. Cant you just let him hang out with your kids, let them romp around? I dunno....relax a little bit. He's 3. (doesnt mean you should tolerate damaged furniture etc, but nowhere in your post did i see your attempt to make this child feel welcome.)
When kids drop over my house, i like it. They can play with my kids.

I think she said she does stop by to get him when she has her kids out riding bikes and playing. There is no excuse for this child destroying her property and hurting her pets. Not to mention the mom inviting herself in for hours on end to chat. I'm guessing that the family just has some pretty serious boundary problems and OP needs to let them know.


----------



## phrogger (Oct 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hippiemommaof4* 
so what do you think the mom should do to keep him from doing it...because kids do get out even with extremely vigilant parents... we had a neighbor growing up whos severe special needs kid would get out and come in our house all the time growing up , they werent crappy parents they came and got him and took him home my dad never called cps. oh and once he came in and destroyed my bedroom my dad was upset and still never called not even once! he was just too fast for them to catch him and you cant always prevent it. it was never made out to be this huge fiasco.


I never said you had or even could prevent every incident, I said her reaction to not even knowing the child was gone is what would concern me.

My step son is the master escape artist and would get out any time he wanted to. No alarm, no lock, no anything could keep him inside, however, if someone had called me and said "hey, J is in the house pissing on my cat and throwing rocks at the dog" my reaction would NOT be to laugh and say "oh, thats just J". I would have been franticly looking for him already and in desperate mode, not just ha ha that is what a 3 year old does.

Oh, and calling CPS does not automatically equate removal, however it could mean it gets these parents into gear to start acting like parents.


----------



## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
Gosh, maybe if you were a little more welcoming of this child, he wouldnt feel the need to thrust himself on you. Maybe if someone, just someone, would welcome this child, make him feel like he's ok, he wouldnt feel the need to do any of this. You have kids, so your home is probably a safe place for children to be. Cant you just let him hang out with your kids, let them romp around? I dunno....relax a little bit. He's 3. (doesnt mean you should tolerate damaged furniture etc, but nowhere in your post did i see your attempt to make this child feel welcome.)
When kids drop over my house, i like it. They can play with my kids.

As for wandering off, give me as break. It sounds like the country/suburbs. Children can wander out of those kind of houses that are usually open. If he is leaving, maybe he is uncomforatble in his home for some reason. My sister always went over to my neighbours. I think she was overwhelmed by all her siblings, and wanted a different energy. My parents werent negligent. But kids wander off sometimes. Maybe the mother *does* know where he is going, and she is thinking 'pity my neighbour is such a snob that she cant even have my 3 yo at her house...' She sounds like a relaxed kind of person, and to be honest, has a better idea of what children are like that the op. For eg, her statement 'he's so 3' sounds spot on.

Just thought i'd put a different perspective out there.

I like children coming over, so i dont get why its such an issue.
Maya
(with two rambunctious extravertive boys, who like their neighbours dropping by)

This poor mama, is in her own home, minding her business...her family is going about it's routines; getting ready for dinner, finishing homework or changing diapers and giving baths....and these people's three year old comes crashing into the house and pees on the family cat.

Are you joking? I understand the tragedy, that this child does not have a loving home he feels like he belongs to...but in this life, we are bound to care for our family *first* and always. It is not good, for the sanity or privacey of this family, that anyone - no matter what their age - should be allowed to disrupt their private lives at whatever time they choose.

I would never tolerate living that way. If I'm out in the yard, I love to see children and talk with them...knowing my nieghbors is important to me. But When I am in my home with my family, no one comes without calling. No one is allowed to burst in my door. And if I found out my child did that, I'd be really upset. It's not right to violate peoples space like that, not to MENTION abusing their animals.


----------



## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
Gosh, maybe if you were a little more welcoming of this child, he wouldnt feel the need to thrust himself on you. Maybe if someone, just someone, would welcome this child, make him feel like he's ok, he wouldnt feel the need to do any of this. You have kids, so your home is probably a safe place for children to be. Cant you just let him hang out with your kids, let them romp around? I dunno....relax a little bit. He's 3. (doesnt mean you should tolerate damaged furniture etc, but nowhere in your post did i see your attempt to make this child feel welcome.)
When kids drop over my house, i like it. They can play with my kids.

As for wandering off, give me as break. It sounds like the country/suburbs. Children can wander out of those kind of houses that are usually open. If he is leaving, maybe he is uncomforatble in his home for some reason. My sister always went over to my neighbours. I think she was overwhelmed by all her siblings, and wanted a different energy. My parents werent negligent. But kids wander off sometimes. Maybe the mother *does* know where he is going, and she is thinking 'pity my neighbour is such a snob that she cant even have my 3 yo at her house...' She sounds like a relaxed kind of person, and to be honest, has a better idea of what children are like that the op. For eg, her statement 'he's so 3' sounds spot on.

Just thought i'd put a different perspective out there.

I like children coming over, so i dont get why its such an issue.
Maya
(with two rambunctious extravertive boys, who like their neighbours dropping by)

The pp is correct that I do go pick him up quite often to join us at neutral areas where my home and pets won't suffer. I love having a house ful of children too, the more the merrier! This little guy actually used to having a standing playdate with us three days a week so mom could run errands. I had to end that because it went from her bringing him from 8-10 to 7-3 some days and I simply could not afford to feed him two meals and snacks without some type of compensation and I also did not have a car big enough to hold him in addition to mine at the time, so I was stuck at home all day. When he was here on a regular basis his behavior improved quite a bit and there are still days when he is very sweet and kind.

Im sorry you think I am a snob


----------



## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

Sorry to post twice in a row, but I forgot to say that they left this morning. I wasn't going to post again seeing as they are gone, but I had to reply to being called a name. I don't believe that has happened to me before in my adult life and it really hurt my feelings.


----------



## greenmansions (Feb 16, 2005)

Sending hugs to the OP

We have a _somewhat_ similar sitation going on in our neighborhood, but with kids a few years older. I hope you enjoy your summer and can formulate a plan for dealing with it when the family returns.


----------



## hippiemommaof4 (Mar 31, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phrogger* 
I never said you had or even could prevent every incident, I said her reaction to not even knowing the child was gone is what would concern me.

My step son is the master escape artist and would get out any time he wanted to. No alarm, no lock, no anything could keep him inside, however, if someone had called me and said "hey, J is in the house pissing on my cat and throwing rocks at the dog" my reaction would NOT be to laugh and say "oh, thats just J". I would have been franticly looking for him already and in desperate mode, not just ha ha that is what a 3 year old does.

Oh, and calling CPS does not automatically equate removal, however it could mean it gets these parents into gear to start acting like parents.

I know exactly what CPS does and I know that it doesnt mean removal but it doesnt mean that they wont make their lives miserable unnecessarily for months afterward when they made a mistake and may do their best to fix it if given the chance without CPS involvment. I dont think CPS is the answer, I wont change my mind about that and we can sit and discuss that until the cows come home but I wont budge







. If it were me in this situation, I would grow myself a backbone and go talk to the mom first and be very straightforward with her about why I was there even though I wouldnt want to do it I would anyway. There is no need to call CPS first...I dont want that kind of involvement in my life. I'm sure most other people dont either so they deserve the chance to try to change before the way too nosy for their own good government interferes. I can guarentee most people call CPS, because they are too worried to go talk to parents like that because many people dont like any confrontation at all even friendly peaceful confrontation. I think calling CPS is a passive aggressive way of dealing with the situation to be quite honest.


----------



## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hippiemommaof4* 
I am not going to have a kid possibly taken from an otherwise loving family or be responsible for CPS keeping tabs on them for months for a lapse in judgement, when I can be the better person and grow a backbone and have a talk with these people instead.


----------



## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

Averysmama, I have enjoyed reading your posts!


----------



## tinuviel_k (Apr 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *contactmaya* 
Gosh, maybe if you were a little more welcoming of this child, he wouldnt feel the need to thrust himself on you. Maybe if someone, just someone, would welcome this child, make him feel like he's ok, he wouldnt feel the need to do any of this. You have kids, so your home is probably a safe place for children to be. Cant you just let him hang out with your kids, let them romp around? I dunno....relax a little bit. He's 3. (doesnt mean you should tolerate damaged furniture etc, but nowhere in your post did i see your attempt to make this child feel welcome.)
When kids drop over my house, i like it. They can play with my kids.

Wow...your post is really judgmental.







: Just out of curiosity, did you even _read_ the OP's original post?

"Cant you just let him hang out with your kids, let them romp around?"
Why don't we re-write this: Can't you just let him hang out with your kids, piss on your cat, kick your cat, break your dishes, throw rocks at your dog? Why don't your relax a bit while his mom sits around your house for hours uninvited and laughs as he destroys your stuff?

Not every behavior problem can be magically fixed by making someone else's child feel "welcome." And it should not be the OP's responsibility to spend hours a day micro-supervising the kids, trying to manage this uncontrollable child who seems hell-bent on messing up her home and hurting her animals.


----------



## linz2491 (Sep 11, 2007)

I would also call cps BUT just because cps is called does not mean they are going to take the children away. they would investigate and unless there is more then you know going on they would probably order parenting classes. this might be what these parents need.

Other alternative is to buy a parenting dvd "for yourself" and "lend" it too her saying that you really enjoyed it and she might as well. It may be thinly veiled but you never know.

All this stuff seems so crazy. I can not imagine my oldest ds walking 1/2 mile at 8 let alone my 3 year old. Now when ds1 was a toddler and under dh's watch he got out of the house 2 times early in the morning when dh was asleep and I was riding my bike. I think he walked a block or 2. This stuff does happen (though would not have happened on my watch.














but to have it happen over and over. and 1/2 mile would take a little one along time to walk. How can you miss your dc for that long?


----------



## Doodlebugsmom (Aug 1, 2002)

OP, you have gone above and beyond with this family. You're a bigger person than most. If things haven't changed when they return, set some clear boundaries. I see no reason why you couldn't do it in a nice way, but you need to make it clear that this isn't working for you. If all that happens and it doesn't change, you need help from authorities.


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Hey, if you have the kid over as often as you say, and enjoy the 'more the merrier' atmostphere, then you dont sound like a snob to me at all. I was just rying to look at it fromt he perspective of the other mom (who on this thread has been berated), and the 3 yo, who sounds like he misses being at your place.
That said, leaving the kid with you all day long like that, is not on, nor is peeing on the cat etc, these are all terrible things.

I suppose there are 'boundaries'-you need to let the mom know whats not ok, and then there's a general attitude that either welcomes other people/community in, or, shuts them out (in the name of the nuclear family)

I suppose i am more continuum concept in my attitude.
But just to clarify, you sound like a kind person, who is community minded, not a snob at all, and who is being taken advantage of by someone who doesnt seem to know any better (or maybe doesnt have the energy to deal with it)


----------

