# What would you do? UPDATE POST#85



## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

OKay, heres the deal.
I have a friend, 20, who had a son in January. And she made me his godmother. My husband and I adore this little boy and last week we went and took him home with us as him mother is having some issues with money and is having to work over time and can not afford a baby sitter. So we figured we'd help her out. After all, I've known her since I was 14. She gave us gas money to come down there. and then gave us more to come back home on. But none to bring him back on and for us to get back home on. When we got him, he had no coat, no socks (except the ones on his feet) and only a few winter clothing items. No cap either...and he had just gotten over a bad cold. We went and picked him up. We went shopping. GOt him a coat, hat, mittens, some more food, juice, things he needed. We had SO much fun with him....his mom loves him to death. There is no question about it. She called atleast 3-4 times a day almost crying because she missed him. She also discussed with me how she would breakdown at work because Braelyn will not get a Christmas, her phone may get cut off and she is barely making it. Anywho, we took him back this past Saturday and while there, she said (low enough to where dh couldn't here of coruse) "Hey...I need a favor...do you think you could come down and get him again...and keep him longer? " I asked why and she said "Well, I'm barely makin it. I need to find a second job or a new one and I can't do it with Braelyn around." I told her that I would talk to dh about it...well now the phone is ringing off the hook...and I know she wants to know. Like I said, Dh and I love this little boy with all of our hearts, but I feel like we're being taken advantage of. She is using us as her personal baby sitter without pay or anything. I hate to demand pay as she is one of my best friends, kwim? I'm not one to always look for something in return, however I have my own children, life, etc. SO...dh and I talked...and we came up with this. That she should give us legal guardianship of him until she gets on her feet. Instead of us going back and forth (3 hrs away) picking him up, dropping him off. I wouldn't mind doing that. WHen she gets on her feet, she can have him back. I'm not asking her to give him away or anything. Just to let us have him for now.
Please give me honest opinions on this. I have not answered her phone calls yet as I need to know what to say. Am I crazy? I also need an unbiased answer as we have just lost a baby girl in May and I know that naturally I just want him to be mine ....*sighs* What should I do? What would YOU do? Is she taking advantage of us?
Any advice would be great. TIA


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I think you need to sit down face to face and have a long honest conversation about it. What a hard position for her to be in. How sweet of you two to be able to help. But expectations and concerns need to be on the table up front for this to work.

good luck!

-Angela


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

I just don't want her to feel cornered or anything or forced..pressured, kwim?

Also, I have mentioned daycare assistance to her being that she is receiving welfare already and she said that she doesn't want to do that or they will take away her TANF check (money). THAT is why she wants us to keep him because she can not afford a baby sitter and does not want to lose her monthly benefits by receiving assistance for daycare...


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## mama_b (Dec 14, 2004)

As to whether or not she's taking advantage of you, I don't know. I would lean towards saying no. It sounds like she's desperate, really loves her son, and trusts you to take care of him. And it's really nice of you to be willing to do it. What I don't understand is why you want legal guardianship. What difference would it make? Why can't you just tell her that you really don't like going back and forth 3 hours each way all the time, so you would like to just keep him with you until she gets on her feet. Please don't be mad at me for saying this, but it does sound like wanting legal guardianship has something to do with the loss of your baby girl. And if it were my son, it definitely would feel like you were asking me to give him away. JMO. I hope everything works out.


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## Faithsmom (Oct 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_b* 
As to whether or not she's taking advantage of you, I don't know. I would lean towards saying no. It sounds like she's desperate, really loves her son, and trusts you to take care of him. And it's really nice of you to be willing to do it. What I don't understand is why you want legal guardianship. What difference would it make? Why can't you just tell her that you really don't like going back and forth 3 hours each way all the time, so you would like to just keep him with you until she gets on her feet.

i agree with this.


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## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

I was also wondering why the legal guardianship. As for emergencies, I signed something at the doctors office giving mymom and grandma power to give permission to treat, though they aren't guardians. You have to decide on your role. Are you going to be the parent for a while, or the babysitter. Be honest that you don't want to drive back and forth. But you need to be very clear to yourself, to the baby and to the mom what role you are taking on.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_b* 
As to whether or not she's taking advantage of you, I don't know. I would lean towards saying no. It sounds like she's desperate, really loves her son, and trusts you to take care of him. And it's really nice of you to be willing to do it. What I don't understand is why you want legal guardianship. What difference would it make? Why can't you just tell her that you really don't like going back and forth 3 hours each way all the time, so you would like to just keep him with you until she gets on her feet. Please don't be mad at me for saying this, but it does sound like wanting legal guardianship has something to do with the loss of your baby girl. And if it were my son, it definitely would feel like you were asking me to give him away. JMO. I hope everything works out.










No, I'm not angry, as stated before I need an unbiased view as I, myself feel like I'm possibly (and my husband as well) filling some sort of void. Thank you for bringing that more to my attention...I just don't know what to say to h er. As she is needing us to come get him on this Saturday. She has no car so we willalways have to go back and forth for her...
I want to help her...but at the same time...I don't want to be a baby sitter forever...
I'm so lost







:


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Flor* 
I was also wondering why the legal guardianship. As for emergencies, I signed something at the doctors office giving mymom and grandma power to give permission to treat, though they aren't guardians. You have to decide on your role. Are you going to be the parent for a while, or the babysitter. Be honest that you don't want to drive back and forth. But you need to be very clear to yourself, to the baby and to the mom what role you are taking on.


Honestly, I can not find an answer...I don't know. it was just automatic. I think mama_b has the right idea. I thought legal guardianship would let him be more "ours" for the time being....now that I see it on a screen i nwords...that sounds so awful..


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## rharr! (Nov 9, 2005)

While I can see traveling 3hrs each way is a pain, if your friend has no money, how can she give any?

Maybe it would be easier to give her what you would spend on gas and supplies of taking care of her son?

Point her in the direction of government assistance?
Lots of people out there are single and barely making it, but they do still get by.

Does your friend know how to budget? How to be frugal? Can you help her in these areas?

I am really sorry you lost your baby in May


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## mama_b (Dec 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momz3* 
No, I'm not angry, as stated before I need an unbiased view as I, myself feel like I'm possibly (and my husband as well) filling some sort of void. Thank you for bringing that more to my attention...I just don't know what to say to h er. As she is needing us to come get him on this Saturday. She has no car so we willalways have to go back and forth for her...
I want to help her...but at the same time...I don't want to be a baby sitter forever...
I'm so lost







:

I'm glad you're not mad. I was just reading back over my post, and was thinking that it sounded insensitive. I didn't mean it that way, honest. I can't imagine what you must be going through. I'm really sorry.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_b* 
As to whether or not she's taking advantage of you, I don't know. I would lean towards saying no. It sounds like she's desperate, really loves her son, and trusts you to take care of him. And it's really nice of you to be willing to do it. What I don't understand is why you want legal guardianship. What difference would it make? Why can't you just tell her that you really don't like going back and forth 3 hours each way all the time, so you would like to just keep him with you until she gets on her feet. Please don't be mad at me for saying this, but it does sound like wanting legal guardianship has something to do with the loss of your baby girl. And if it were my son, it definitely would feel like you were asking me to give him away. JMO. I hope everything works out.










I don't think so. Giving someone legal guardianship is NOT "giving" your child away. In fact, if the OP and her husband are going to be taking care of this child on a fulltime basis, legally, they need to have guardianship, IMO. This way, they can give permission for things like emergency medical care, etc.

In most places, guardianship is not a difficult thing to obtain. It also can be taken away at any time. At least where I am from, it can. Basically, from a legal standpoint, you are a babysitter "with benefits".

Also, it is not right for someone to keep your child and you still get TANF or whatever. And if you get caught, you can get into serious trouble.

For legal reasons alone, they should get guardianship.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_b* 
I'm glad you're not mad. I was just reading back over my post, and was thinking that it sounded insensitive. I didn't mean it that way, honest. I can't imagine what you must be going through. I'm really sorry.

















Thanks and its ok. What I need is honesty...and a reality check lol.

Rharr, thanks for the input. When we went to get Braelyn last weekend we actually spent the night there and she was going over why she needed us to take him. her bills, expenses, etc. She was doing ok at first because she had a live in boyfriend. They split everything. They broke up and now she is on her own. I've shared with her our budget layout (we get one from finance here on post) and gave her a copy of the spreadsheet. She said she'd get around to it when she got the time as she is working alot of overtime...

Thanks for all the responses...I'm glad I came here to ask for help before I opened my mouth...yikes.,..


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## Mama2Bug (Feb 18, 2005)

I would think that if the reason she is sending you her child is that she is having a lot of financial problems, then she definitely can't afford to pay you. She is probably absolutely humbled to ask at all and only does so because she trusts and loves you.

She clearly loves her child very much. So much, in fact, that she is willing to be separated from him so that she can find a way to make their lives better. I think asking for guardianship is a bit much. I think it WILL sound to her as if you want her to give him to you. I think maybe part of you is hoping that she might not take him back. Deep down in your heart, might that be the case? Even just a tiny bit?

I think you are trying to soothe your heart by mothering this little boy. While I think it is wonderful, absolutely sweet and loving, of you to take him in and buy him what he needs, you have to remember that his mother loves him and wants him. He isn't your child. His mother never intended for him to be your child. He won't/can't/shouldn't replace the one that you lost. (And I am so, so sorry for your loss.







)

If you aren't emotionally able to care for him on his mother's terms, then just tell her that you can't. Tell her that you just aren't in a good place to do so. Maybe you can help by sending things for the child for Christmas or by buying a grocery store gift card once in a while.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
I don't think so. Giving someone legal guardianship is NOT "giving" your child away. In fact, if the OP and her husband are going to be taking care of this child on a fulltime basis, legally, they need to have guardianship, IMO. This way, they can give permission for things like emergency medical care, etc.

In most places, guardianship is not a difficult thing to obtain. It also can be taken away at any time. At least where I am from, it can. Basically, from a legal standpoint, you are a babysitter "with benefits".

Also, it is not right for someone to keep your child and you still get TANF or whatever. And if you get caught, you can get into serious trouble.

For legal reasons alone, they should get guardianship.


Those were our thoughts as well. Especially the TANF part.


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## QueenOfTheMeadow (Mar 25, 2005)

I hope it all works out for both you and your friend. I just wonder if emotionally you will be OK with having him for awhile and then having to give him back. I am just asking, because I had a miscarriage 1.5 years ago, and it is still very emotional, and I'm not sure I could handle something like that. it would be very hard to not get very attached, and after being attached, I'm not sure how I would feel about giving a child back into a situation that might be tenuous.
I am so sorry about your miscarriage.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:

I think maybe part of you is hoping that she might not take him back. Deep down in your heart, might that be the case? Even just a tiny bit?
Correct.







: Before we took him back Friday, we were hoping that she'd say keep him longer...and when we took him back, she said that she was going to say that....but missed him too much. She loves her little boy to death...she really does.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *race_kelly* 







I hope it all works out for both you and your friend. I just wonder if emotionally you will be OK with having him for awhile and then having to give him back. I am just asking, because I had a miscarriage 1.5 years ago, and it is still very emotional, and I'm not sure I could handle something like that. it would be very hard to not get very attached, and after being attached, I'm not sure how I would feel about giving a child back into a situation that might be tenuous.
I am so sorry about your miscarriage.










I held my tears when we took him back...and my husband cried a little. He clung to my hubby like static lol. When we walked in the door his mom goes "He didn't even reach for me!" LOL...we hated to see him go..


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## mama_b (Dec 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
I don't think so. Giving someone legal guardianship is NOT "giving" your child away. In fact, if the OP and her husband are going to be taking care of this child on a fulltime basis, legally, they need to have guardianship, IMO. This way, they can give permission for things like emergency medical care, etc.

In most places, guardianship is not a difficult thing to obtain. It also can be taken away at any time. At least where I am from, it can. Basically, from a legal standpoint, you are a babysitter "with benefits".

Also, it is not right for someone to keep your child and you still get TANF or whatever. And if you get caught, you can get into serious trouble.

For legal reasons alone, they should get guardianship.

I would like to respectfully disagree with this. I don't see it any different than the baby visiting. When I was young, there were a couple of years where I went to stay with my aunt all summer long. She didn't have legal guardianship of me and I was in her care for months.


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## Penelope (Jul 22, 2003)

Could she come to live with you for a while?


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Penelope* 
Could she come to live with you for a while?


Yes. Well I mean we offfered. We have an extra room. It was Alexis' nursery and we would have no problem with that. However, we live on a military post. The rules are no guest can stay more than 30 days in a yr. The only time there is an exception is if DH goes to Iraq (which he may or may not in the next few months, we're not sure). I want her to come live here. Last year, while she was preggo with Brae, she came and stayed for 3 weeks and wanted her to stay longer...she went to apply for housing but there was a long waiting list due to Katrina victims needing places to stay. She went back home to OK...then eventually moved back to Texas (3 hrs away from here) to move in w/her bf after Braelyn was born.


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## Cardinal (Feb 6, 2006)

You've gotten a lot of great advice already.
I think you need to talk to your friend immediately. not answering the phone calls is just going to make her frantic. I don't think legal guardianship is the answer because A) she may feel like you are trying to take her child and B) it will only make you THAT much more emotionally attached to the child. Additionally, I agree that she probably IS taking advantage of you. But, you've been friends for years and she trusts you and is leaning on you right now. If you can, and she agrees, then I think the child living with you for a while would be best. But, be clear with one another about expectations and concerns. You HAVE to talk about what you both want and need. This poor child is the chief concern and everyone has to agree how to make the child's needs met. I am sorry you are going through this. This is a tough situation. If she doesn't want the child to live with you, then you can either continue to drive to get the child or help her find someone else to watch the child that lives closer to her. No matter what, try as hard as you can to be there and continue to love her. You are doing wonderful. You are a tough military wife. I commend you for being so kind to her during her time of need.


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## Cardinal (Feb 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momz3* 
Yes. Well I mean we offfered. We have an extra room. It was Alexis' nursery and we would have no problem with that. However, we live on a military post. The rules are no guest can stay more than 30 days in a yr. The only time there is an exception is if DH goes to Iraq (which he may or may not in the next few months, we're not sure). I want her to come live here. Last year, while she was preggo with Brae, she came and stayed for 3 weeks and wanted her to stay longer...she went to apply for housing but there was a long waiting list due to Katrina victims needing places to stay. She went back home to OK...then eventually moved back to Texas (3 hrs away from here) to move in w/her bf after Braelyn was born.

Um, I live on base too. DOes anyone have to KNOW? Seriously. Nobody would notice here if another child came and stay with us and nobody would care. Is it strict on Hood?


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Okay. I returned her phone called. She said she needed us to come get him this weekend (which I already knew that) but she does not have the gas money for us, but she'll repay us back on it when she gets the chance. She also said that we'll need to keep him *atleast* 2 weeks if not more. She also said that she did miss him terribly...and was glad to see him home, however now that he's back it has made her even more depressed. I asked her how and she explained that seeing his face is a reality check and that he really needed to stay longer so she can find another or better job in order to care for him.

She said she has applied for daycare assistance. She was declined because she makes too much money (5.85/hr 4-5 days a week). She has tried to get asst. with her electricity and other bills, but they told her they were out of funds for that county.
She found a girl wwho wanted to keep him, free of charge, but she goes to school and she doesn't accomodate the hrs needed for Braelyns care. Her mom keeps him for now but is "tired" of keeping a baby when she has to get up for work as well.

I told my friend I'd call her back on if we can come this weekend or not...

I've talked to dh about this...and right now we're thinking maybe guardianship isn't really necessary being that we've been friends forever and I do not want her to feel attacked or like we are taking her son, because I can tell you,*She loves her little boy*....we both have let our emotions from our little girl take over...and feel so bad about it. However we do truly love Braelyn and enjoy having him around...

Also..one other thing. She has got a new "friend" he was over there when we spent the night...now they are living together...and honestly, I think he should be helping her as she is a single mom with bills and she is allowing him to eat her food, use her electricity and phone. Its not fair to her or Braelyn.

Cardinal, I've only lived here at Hood for a little over a yr. I'm not really sure how "strict" they are. But I know that neighbors are nosy. They would not notice a baby here, no. But an adult, yes.


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## Getz (May 22, 2005)

If you did have legal guardianship would that allow the baby to be on your health insurance? If he was staying with you for an extended period of time would that be easier in case of medical emergency? Can the mom just give you guardianship for a short period of time (say 6 months?) that way there isn't any confusion that you and your DH would want this to be long term?

I have no idea. My heart would want to keep that baby safe and give the mom a chance to get on her feet. But I would be worried about medical treatment, etc (but that is just me being paranoid).

My only advice is to keep an open dialog with the mom. Does she have internet? A couple of webcams would be cheaper than gas and she could "see" him every day when he is staying with you.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Getz,
Thanks for your response. My husband was just talking about this. When I told him that maybe we shouldn't get guardianship, he asked "What if something bad happened and a doctor wouldn't due an emergency life or death procedure because his mother can't sign?" (she lives 3 hrs away) yikes...I didn't think about that...
I'm not sure about Tricare (military insurance) we should be able to add him on our insurance if we have guardianship. I'm hoping.

Cardinal...do you know?


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## bburnie2 (Sep 28, 2004)

I am so sorry for your situation. Ugh, I cannot even imagine how hard it is on you.

I am concerned about one thing. She has a new friend and hes already living with her? Thats great....but....doesn't that seem kind of fast to have a new bf move in? I don't mean to sound rude or harsh or hurtful, but what kind of stability does that offer the baby? Not to mention the fact how well does she know this guy? When and if they break up, how will that affect the baby and her situation? Will she suddenly have a new guy moving in as fast as she did this one? I know this sounds so bad of me, but I would be very concerned about who she has around- many of those horrible child abuse/neglect cases we read/hear about are committed by men who are new to the moms life.

I think its wonderful you guys are trying to help out- my recommendation would be for you and her to sit down and come up with a game plan. I don't know but it sounds to me like if your willing to do so much she should move in with you and then try to get set up in your area where you can come get him and drop him off.

One problem I see with you taking the baby for even more then a month is that having him there might help remind her what shes working so hard for- keep her grounded. Obviously I don't know her situation, having the baby gone might be hard for her at first, but over time I could possibly see it becoming a case where she lives like she did before the baby was around- which would then make it that much more difficult for her to have him back in her life AND be a successful mom. I hope that makes sense. Even though its hard now, she will grow and learn WITH her son...having him gone and then suddenly back is NOT helpful to her nor him. What would it be like on him if his mom suddenly wants him back when hes 6 mos old? She wouldn't know him and his habits, and he would only know you. Thats not good for anyone.

It would make sense to me that if you guys are willing to help so much, don't seperate mom and baby- keep them together at all cost. Have her move in with you temporarily, apply for state aid, insurance and then help her find a place. If you can afford helping her with rent/deposit and the like- do it. Maybe find out from your dhs superior officer (or whomever) if you can ask for an extention after the 30 days? Maybe they will allow one for emergency type situations.

I really hope you can come to some peaceful decision in this.










Beth


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Thanks for replying Beth.

No, she doesn't know this guy very well. She just broke up with her boyfriend about 3 weeks ago. Now this is *not* the father of Braelyn as that is unknown. But she has been portraying him as the father to Braelyn, calling him "daddy" and giving him fatherly "duties" etc. So now, they've broken up and she is doing the same. She told me "I know you're gonna say I need to concentrate on Braelyn right now and I am. He's just a friend." But he spends the night and they sleep in the same bed. So I do not know. The guy is "nice" but she moved him in too fast. ANd he does not help her any way and he supposedly has his own apt. in the SAME complex. Its confusing. ...somethings not right about that...and no, I don't think its stable for him to see different men living there....

We can't give her money. I wish we could, but we can't. We have our own bills and family. I don't know how to help her other than keeping him. No one else can. WHo is suppose to keep him when she works nights? I mean I see where you are getting at, but she needs someone to keep him at night...


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## Cardinal (Feb 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momz3* 
Getz,
Thanks for your response. My husband was just talking about this. When I told him that maybe we shouldn't get guardianship, he asked "What if something bad happened and a doctor wouldn't due an emergency life or death procedure because his mother can't sign?" (she lives 3 hrs away) yikes...I didn't think about that...
I'm not sure about Tricare (military insurance) we should be able to add him on our insurance if we have guardianship. I'm hoping.

Cardinal...do you know?


I really don't think Tricare would allow the child unless the child was adopted or under legal guardianship. Tricare is pretty strict. What do you think Leah (Eastonsmom)? I can call Tricare for you tomorrow. Let me know.


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## Cardinal (Feb 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bburnie2* 
I am so sorry for your situation. Ugh, I cannot even imagine how hard it is on you.

I am concerned about one thing. She has a new friend and hes already living with her? Thats great....but....doesn't that seem kind of fast to have a new bf move in? I don't mean to sound rude or harsh or hurtful, but what kind of stability does that offer the baby? Not to mention the fact how well does she know this guy? When and if they break up, how will that affect the baby and her situation? Will she suddenly have a new guy moving in as fast as she did this one? I know this sounds so bad of me, but I would be very concerned about who she has around- many of those horrible child abuse/neglect cases we read/hear about are committed by men who are new to the moms life.

I think its wonderful you guys are trying to help out- my recommendation would be for you and her to sit down and come up with a game plan. I don't know but it sounds to me like if your willing to do so much she should move in with you and then try to get set up in your area where you can come get him and drop him off.

One problem I see with you taking the baby for even more then a month is that having him there might help remind her what shes working so hard for- keep her grounded. Obviously I don't know her situation, having the baby gone might be hard for her at first, but over time I could possibly see it becoming a case where she lives like she did before the baby was around- which would then make it that much more difficult for her to have him back in her life AND be a successful mom. I hope that makes sense. Even though its hard now, she will grow and learn WITH her son...having him gone and then suddenly back is NOT helpful to her nor him. What would it be like on him if his mom suddenly wants him back when hes 6 mos old? She wouldn't know him and his habits, and he would only know you. Thats not good for anyone.

It would make sense to me that if you guys are willing to help so much, don't seperate mom and baby- keep them together at all cost. Have her move in with you temporarily, apply for state aid, insurance and then help her find a place. If you can afford helping her with rent/deposit and the like- do it. Maybe find out from your dhs superior officer (or whomever) if you can ask for an extention after the 30 days? Maybe they will allow one for emergency type situations.

I really hope you can come to some peaceful decision in this.










Beth


good points


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## Cardinal (Feb 6, 2006)

So when you talked to your friend last did you tell her your feeling taken advantage of? HOw did she respond?


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cardinal* 
So when you talked to your friend last did you tell her your feeling taken advantage of? HOw did she respond?


Nope. And thats my problem. She gets on the phone and talks about her days at work...and how she cries to the co workers and her current "friend" about her money problems. How she doesn't have anyone to watch him and can not get help ...I do not have the guts to say "You are taking advantage of me."


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## Aridel (Apr 25, 2004)

I know it's hard to arrange at such a distance, especially with needing to know if you can take him this weekend, but it sounds like you and your dh, and you and your dh and your friend need to sit down and talk this through. You need to let her know how you feel, and what you'll have to do if he's going to stay with you for an extended period of time. Don't go into this without explicit expectations all around - how often she will call/how long it will be (if you don't know just try and identify a general time that you'd be willing to look after him) and things like that.

Asking for guardianship may be really important if he's coming for a long time. Health insurance, like others have mentioned, and being able to make decisions for him are very important.

I think it's amazing what you're doing/thinking of doing for this little boy and your friend.


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## MPJJJ (Oct 24, 2003)

it sounds like a difficult situation to be in.


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## EastonsMom (Oct 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cardinal* 
I really don't think Tricare would allow the child unless the child was adopted or under legal guardianship. Tricare is pretty strict. What do you think Leah (Eastonsmom)? I can call Tricare for you tomorrow. Let me know.

I have seen some tricky situations when it comes to Tricare in terms of custody of children. I am sorry for your situation because I know it is not easy on anyone involved, mother, child, or you all. I might have missed it but is dad in the picture? I am guessing not because I haven't seen a strong mentioning of him at all.

If I were in your situation I would talk to a lawyer on base and ask what about the terms of TEMPORARY guardianship and what they might give you in terms of rights with Tricare, DEERS, and other military benefits we receive. If you don't have paperwork Tricare won't even blink at it. I don't know if you could get BAH or not for that type of situation.

Only after I had all that info lined up and able to lay out for the child's mother would I approach her with it. But I think that it would be the best thing to do. It is for everyone's well being. I think as long as you make sure that she knows that you have _*TEMPOARY*_ custody and that it is for her to get back on her feet and to ensure that her child is covered and does not rack up any bills that either one of you can afford. Good luck and hugs to all of you involved.


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## bburnie2 (Sep 28, 2004)

Maybe I am way off base here, but even temporary custody doesn't seem like the awnser, IMO. Please think about how will the baby adjust if all of a sudden she wants him back and he has to go? Even if hes only with you for a month or two- he will think of YOU and your family as his normal environment. Suddenly removing him from that b/c the mom is financially able to take him is going to be traumatic, at best, for him.

All the paperwork in the world isn't going to change the trauma of moving from one house to another for the child. Even if you got all your "ducks in a row" and were able to take him for 2+ months, eventually your friend is going to want her son back, right? It will, without a doubt, affect him deeply, not to mention you and your children. THATs what I find to be the biggest hurdle to get through- what is everyone going to do then? How will it affect him long term?

Even if the mom visits regularly (which it sounds like she can't since she doesn't have a car- unless you drive down there every week so she can see him) the child will be used to you as his mother figure and your family as "his" family.


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## Cardinal (Feb 6, 2006)

Yeah, talking to a JAG (military lawyer) is free, so call one if you do really want to find out more about guardianship, etc.


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## sea_joy (Aug 5, 2006)

My initial response to you saying that you want legal gaurdianship is that you want your friends baby, this doesn't make you a bad person, the feeling itself isn't bad either. On the one hand your friend might go for it, but on the other she may see you as her one viable help and resourse trying to take her child away.It sounds like she's trying her best and having a VERY hard time staying on her feet, suggesting she isn't a capable mother and that she should "temporarily" give you custody could potentially be very hurtful. Remember, despite your love for this child, you aren't it's mother. It This could very effectively banish her from your life, and the baby too. I would really think about having a couple of therapy sessions with your friend to help everyone figure out what it really is that they are looking for in this relationship. Clarity of your emotions will make this situation a lot easier to make decisions about.
Good Luck,
Crystal


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

The funny thing is...last year, when she stayed with us for a few weeks, she was homeless and had been staying in shelters. So we went to get her from her moms (as she was moving and couldn't take her-that was her excuse ) and tried to help her start a life here. She, thinking that her baby's future was doomed with her, asked me (when dh left for work) "Would you guys consider adopting my baby?" Her eyes were filled with tears. I didn't know what to say...I eventually asked why and she said she's afraid of the type of life he would have. (this is before I even got pregnant btw). So... I told her I would talk to DH...we told her no because we didn't think she meant it and that she was going through a hard time. Also we didn't want to get excited just for her to change her mind. Anyway, so she then moved in with her dad in Oklahoma. I know one thing about her. She is willing to do whatever it takes to give her baby a good life..or a better one. That is why now I feel guilty as ever. I just want everyone on here to be clear that my view isn't "We make more money so we are better parents, give him to us." Thats not the case at all. The case is that she wants us to care for him constantly. *She*calls needing us to come get him. Back and forth, back and forth.The drive is no joke and she doesn't have a car. For whoever asked, no the father isn't in the picture. She can't collect child support because she's not sure who the father is (which I guess can be narrowed down by dna testing)...
You guys have given alot of great advice and given me and my husband alot to think about. Thanks.


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## bburnie2 (Sep 28, 2004)

Please keep us posted on what your thinking, feeling and how this is playing out.

I think after reading that she asked you about adoption is that maybe she is deep down hoping that it WILL work out that way. Maybe that is why she is asking you to take him for such an extended period of time- hoping it will turn into a permanent arrangement via an open adoption. (which normally is a great thing, but I don't know if it would be good in a situation as yours where your such good friends with her).


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## JustJamie (Apr 24, 2006)

I'm not sure if you've explored this option, and I really have no clue how to do this but if you figure it out I would love to know...anyway.

Is there any way you could make *her* your dependant? Have her and her son move in with you, covered by Tricare, etc.? Get her a job at the PX or something as a military dependant? Then she wouldn't be considered a guest in housing, you'd be authorized a larger apt, etc.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

IF they are only keeping him a short while, I can see your point. But, if it is going to be an undetermined amount of time, guardianship, IMHO, is best.


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## TexasSuz (Mar 4, 2002)

I worry that you and your dh are getting too attached to this little boy so soon after losing your own child. I don't feel that this is healthy for either of you.

I also feel that you are too involved in this woman's life (granted she put you in this position). Your judgments about her decisions and boyfriend send up red flags for me.

I honestly think that deep down you want to keep this child and that you will eventually use the mother's decisions as justification for doing so.

Sorry if that is harsh but I have seen this happen before. I do not feel that you should take this little boy again. She needs to find someone else to help. Someone that is not so emotionally vulnerable.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_b* 
As to whether or not she's taking advantage of you, I don't know. I would lean towards saying no. It sounds like she's desperate, really loves her son, and trusts you to take care of him. And it's really nice of you to be willing to do it. What I don't understand is why you want legal guardianship. What difference would it make? Why can't you just tell her that you really don't like going back and forth 3 hours each way all the time, so you would like to just keep him with you until she gets on her feet. Please don't be mad at me for saying this, but it does sound like wanting legal guardianship has something to do with the loss of your baby girl. And if it were my son, it definitely would feel like you were asking me to give him away. JMO. I hope everything works out.

















:

I wouldn't ask for legal guardianship. I think it would offend her and possibly cause her to not ask for your help anymore, in which case you wouldn't see the baby anymore.

I think you are a great friend to help her during this difficult time. My heart goes out to her -- I can't imagine being in the position of not being able to see my baby for long periods of time.


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## amnda527 (Aug 6, 2006)

This may be harsh, but I've been wondering about this from your first post...Do you think that she will ever REALLY get on her feet and be able to fully support herself and her son? Is she the type of person who is ALWAYS looking for a job, and in a rough patch? (You mentioned that she was homeless earlier back) This is something that I would think over. If you think that she will truly get herself together, then thats one thing. But if you think that in 2 years, you will still be in this same position, playing mom with this poor little boy, then you really need to have a deep talk with your hubby and with her.

On the other hand, maybe she really is in a rough time right now, and she will pull herself out of it PERMANENTLY, and be able to support her and her little boy. Only you can look at your friend and make this call, because you know her best. You said that she really loves him and she will do anything for him, but is this realistic?

I'm just saying this to get you thinking. You said you feel taken advantage of already, and it sounds like you've only taken the little boy once. If the mom does not get on her feet for another couple years (or whatever) and you are still driving back and forth, how will you feel THEN??

This is a lot to think of, and I'm sorry you have to be in this situation.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:

I also feel that you are too involved in this woman's life (granted she put you in this position). Your judgments about her decisions and boyfriend send up red flags for me.
Most definately. It is her decision on whether she tells me things or not. And she does and has. Literally *everything*. Since age 14. But I won't apologize for thinking her decisions are not best for Braelyn. They aren't. And thats just one factor of her life (her "friends" that is) that is harmful for him.

About her getting on her feet. I honestly can not say when or if she will. She has been homeless since 16. Her mom helps her to an extent. Her dad pretty much does nothing and does not want her in his house anymore, but love Braelyn to death (as everyone who comes in contact with him does).

For those who say "Do not separate mom and baby". I'm not separating anyone. I don't go there and demand a damned thing. She *calls*and asks us to keep him. Yes, we love to have him here, but we don't ask for him, she asks us because she needs help.*She can not afford daycare, got declined for daycare assistance and can't afford to pay anyone. The on girl she knows goes to school and can not watch him during the hours needed*. So, we shouldnt go get him, anymore...and then what? She won't have a job., she will get kicked out of her apt and be homeless again. Then what? She blew up the phone yesterday, I finally returned her call....I will be calling her back today to tell her if we're coming to get him or not...

If I get him, I'm taking advantage of her and her of me and if I do not, I am not helping her in her time of need to better herself for her son...

Still more thinking...


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## bburnie2 (Sep 28, 2004)

I am sorry if I hurt or offended you by saying not to seperate mom/baby. I didn't mean to imply that YOU were the root of the seperation. I should have been clearer.

I understand that she is putting you in this position. At the same time though, you are also putting yourself in this position by going and getting him and watching him- which I totally understand why you do it! I think I would too! Without a doubt....

What I meant by the whole seperation thing is that I can see it doing more harm then good. The boy is almost 1 right? (sorry, before I was thinking he was an infant- guess I forgot how long ago Janurary was!) How has your friend made it this far? I assume by your posting that her asking for your help is a new thing (or maybe its been going on since he was a infant?). Seperating mom and baby does several things: it gives her a bit more freedom (not that thats a bad thing, but if your already questioning her life choices then maybe that freedom is maladaptive to the final goal <her being able to support her son fully>). Having a child to care for keeps one a bit more grounded. Removing him will be hard on him when its time to go back to mom (not to mention YOU, your dh and your family!). The list goes on and on.

There are so many issues to consider in this. I hope you and your family are able to sort through them all.










Beth


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## Dreaming (Feb 8, 2004)

I would follow my heart and ignore my brain.
Overthinking things tends to confuse me more.
That's just me and what I would do.
Good luck to you.


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## ashleyhaugh (Jun 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JustJamie* 
I'm not sure if you've explored this option, and I really have no clue how to do this but if you figure it out I would love to know...anyway.

Is there any way you could make *her* your dependant? Have her and her son move in with you, covered by Tricare, etc.? Get her a job at the PX or something as a military dependant? Then she wouldn't be considered a guest in housing, you'd be authorized a larger apt, etc.

its next to impossible to get an adult approved as a dependant, unless they are physically or mentally handicapped and cant take care of themselves. we're working on this process with my mom (shes a very bad alcholic and cant take care of herself), and its not easy

i would say at least talk about it with her. let her know its just temporary custody, but you need it to put him on tricare and all that stuff. she might be willing, you never know


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## GiggleBirds (Oct 24, 2006)

I only read half this thread, so if it's been mentioned, I apologize.

Could she move NEAR to you, within 10 minutes or so? That way you could babysit while she works, and she can keep her son with her. Win/win.


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

Could you handle it if, as part of caring for this baby you're clearly very attached to, you had to deal with a cycle of his mom needing you to care for him for extended periods, then taking him back as things look up, then dropping him off again? Could you handle dealing with the effect on him of whatever instability is going on with his relationship with his mom? It sounds like these would be real possibilities.


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

I just wanted to offer you some hugs mama!

I think you are in a tough, tough, tough spot. You seem like a wonderful person and a dear friend. I hope everyone will find peace in this situation eventually.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Some questions, if I may...

She was homeless for a period; was this the result of a choice SHE made, was she kicked out for some behavior?

She has no idea who the father is, and therefore cannot ask for his assistance, right? And has a new boyfriend who has replaced the last one she 'inserted' into the father role?

This is going to read horribly, I'm sure: Does she have a history of alcoholism or drug abuse? Is the new boyfriend a user? Could he be influencing her?

I raise these questions because I watched my best friend experience a VERY similar situation, some years back. Her sister (whom she had not been SUPER close to) was in your position. They went the legal guarianship route because my friend was having troubles, much as your friend is... But the absence of her child on the long term wracked her with grief. She was already a risk for drug use, and baby's absence just sent her over the edge.That and a string of loer boyfriends with a never-ending supply of co-dependancy and substances, a toxic blend... She used and abused, and nearly died MANY times. When she felt she was ready to have her child back after 4 years, she had cleaned up, etc... her sister fought her, and pulled out all the stops. Not out of maliciousness, but out of sincere concern that my friend would not STAY ok. 8 years later, she has her daughter, she's married to a GREAT guy, they've moved FAR away... and tho the child is extremely bright and talented, she is VERY troubled, and prone to depression (at the age of 10), and has SEVERAL emotional/behavioral imbalances.

Therapists tell them it stems from her early childhood being so in flux.

There are no easy answers. And you are truly up for saint-hood, for going to the mats the way you are. I personally don't hold it against you that the loss of your own child may be the activating energy that drives your love and concern for, as well as your ability to take action on behalf of this boy. She is a CHILDHOOD FRIEND... not many relationships have that depth of committment.

There HAS to be some other resources she can access... churches in her area, co-ops, community centers... Maybe she just needs some guidence. Find out if her case-worker is willing to work with her directly to find these resources and resolve these issues...


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## mamarhu (Sep 12, 2004)

Oh, Mama,





















many hugs to you. I could so easily see myself in a position like this. I don't have much advice, but I have thought of a couple points. If Mom is on public assistance, the baby already has medical coverage, so getting him on your TriCare is not necessary. A letter authorizing you to seek medical services as needed is all you would need.

Another idea of getting Mom and baby together into your housing - could you "hire" her as a nanny? I don't mean you really need such services, but would she be allowed to be live-in help on paper?

I understand all the obstacles, but I agree with the pps about the confusing, disruptive situation for a baby to be separated from his Mama, bond with you, and then be separated from you. It can be devastating to kids. I would keep trying to find a way to keep the family together. Is you all moving off-base together an option?

I wish you and the Mama and baby all the best, and that a great solution will be found.


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## Brojakee (Jul 14, 2006)

I do feel you are being taken advantage of to, but if i were in your shoes I do'nt think i would care. Our friends have a little girl the age of our twins and she is just so wonderful to be around, if it came down to her being homeless with her parents or me keeping her i would do it in a heartbeat.


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## dido1 (Aug 12, 2004)

Many people in the world have alternative care arrangements for their children that involves the child living primarily with a relative or friend, with ample access to their parent(s). This may not seem very normal in our society, but it is common in many other cultures, and does not mean that child will be scarred or psychologically damaged. Also, consider children of divorce whose parents co-parent positively and share custody. Not all children of divorce are scarred. Shared custody, whether formal or informal, can work well.

I would sit down with the mum and have a frank conversation. Express your concerns, ask her if she is still wanting you to adopt, discuss an arrangement where you become legal guardians but she has ample and regular access. Ask her what she could live with. Figure out what you can live with. Let her know your fears and hear hers. Talk about money concerns, etc.

I think it would be preferable for a child to know it has two sets of loving family and flow between the two of them, then to be left in uncertain and potentially neglected circumstances (not inferring your friend is neglecting him willfully, but that she may find it necessary to do so without assistance). Ultimately, you need to search your hearts and decide what you can deal with emotionally...total withdrawal from this child, or partial custody on a long term basis.

I'm thinking of you and hope you all find a solution that works for everyone involved. I don't think your heart will guide you wrong.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:

She was homeless for a period; was this the result of a choice SHE made, was she kicked out for some behavior?

She has no idea who the father is, and therefore cannot ask for his assistance, right? And has a new boyfriend who has replaced the last one she 'inserted' into the father role?

This is going to read horribly, I'm sure: Does she have a history of alcoholism or drug abuse? Is the new boyfriend a user? Could he be influencing her?
Her homelessness, unforunately yes. She's been arrested a few times for stuff and her mother didn't want her living there. Her dads gf *claimed* (as no still knows the whole truth) that some of her stuff was stolen so her dad kicked her out numerous times (after feeling guilty and letting her back). She's been in and out of shelters, she's even stayed with us a few times. She's lived with roomates and boyfriends, but only lasted until they got into fights and she was out on her own again.

No, she doesn't know who the father is. I'm not sure whether she is purposely trying to replace or have a father figure for Braelyn or not....

Drug abuse...do you mean like overusing? She's tried them but she's definately not a drug abuser. And she does drink alcohol but she doesn't really get drunk. She does when Braelyn is w/someone else (she did the night before he came back according to her). And no, the new boyfriend isn't influencing her...she's been this way since childhood.

When she was pregnant, and she moved with her dad, she came down here (TX) to visit her mom who made her go to church...however she isn't the "religious" type and refuses to go on her own free will.

I still have not returned her call....
We probably won't go get him. After thinking about it. It really isn't good for us...and we are getting attached. And whoever said that she will not learn anything or benefit from him leaving is probably correct as well. Aside from wanting a baby, however I do worry about him and his mom. ...


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Momz; I understand what you're up against... the friend I spoke of in my last reply is someone I've known since 1st grade. I had to divorce myself from her life and the choices she made and watch from a distance as she went thru the ringer for about 2 years. Some folks might find that cold... but I had to do what was right for me; SHE understood, and we are as close as ever, now that the "storm" has passed, tho she lives in Hawaii.

If you are emotionally vulnerable, now, and you suspect you may have attachment concerns, and question your OWN ability to handle what MAY play out, with detachment, then go with your instincts. It will be painful, but the results of putting yourself (and dh and your OWN kids) thru what seems likely to be a painful and confusing process that will not be easily resolved later, could be MUCH more damaging. Kwim?

Draw your family to you, keep them close, and _invite_ her to be part of things... maybe they can come for Christmas at your place, and then take home lots of good food, and some toys... maybe that sounds shallow or lame in the face of how grave her situation is... but I worry for you and your family, and what the future holds for YOU if you're too embroiled in this...


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PrennaMama* 
Momz; I understand what you're up against... the friend I spoke of in my last reply is someone I've known since 1st grade. I had to divorce myself from her life and the choices she made and watch from a distance as she went thru the ringer for about 2 years. Some folks might find that cold... but I had to do what was right for me; SHE understood, and we are as close as ever, now that the "storm" has passed, tho she lives in Hawaii.

If you are emotionally vulnerable, now, and you suspect you may have attachment concerns, and question your OWN ability to handle what MAY play out, with detachment, then go with your instincts. It will be painful, but the results of putting yourself (and dh and your OWN kids) thru what seems likely to be a painful and confusing process that will not be easily resolved later, could be MUCH more damaging. Kwim?

Draw your family to you, keep them close, and _invite_ her to be part of things... maybe they can come for Christmas at your place, and then take home lots of good food, and some toys... maybe that sounds shallow or lame in the face of how grave her situation is... but I worry for you and your family, and what the future holds for YOU if you're too embroiled in this...

Thanks for your reply. As I was thinking of it today, I think if we did keep him for an extended amount of time, it would feel like "losing" another child of mine in a sense, even though he's not "mine" and we're not "losing" him..kwim?

Thanks for everyones responses. Everyone has helped me realize that there is more to it. Including the emotional issues of losing our daughter tying to this.
We're still thinking...but its looking like its not best even though I still want him.


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## Stevie (Jun 20, 2004)

I can offer up my experiences...
11 years ago a friend was in need of a sitter for a couple days a week for her 5 month old. I didn't know her well; she worked at the salon where I got my nails and hair done, but I was drawn to help her out because someone had helped me a lot with my toddler when I was a single mom, so I was hoping to pay it forward...
We ended up almost raising this little gil till she was 5; she spent more nights at my house than at her home and in fact had her own room at our house. I never charged her mom a cent for her care and I bought alot of her clothes as well. The mom did a lot of partying and man hopping during the 5 years, but I ignored all that and focused my energy on being the best "auntie" I could be for this little girl.
In the 6 years since, mom has gotten her act together, her DD started public school in the next town over and they now have a new man and a baby sister (3.5 yrs old) in their lives. Her mom and I are really good friends and in fact are also business partners.
There have been times when I've been frustrated with choices she's made, but beyond expressing my opinions, I've allowed her to be the parent. I guess what I'm saying is that I knew it was an unpaid babysitting job from day one and took it for what it was worth. She lived within a half hour the entire time, so the traveling wasn't an issue. If you decide to do this, you must do it for the right reasons and make sure your motives are right.
It IS tough; her DD was SO jealous when I brought my baby home 6.5 years ago







But y'know what? When her mom gets really frustrated with her, she still asks me to spend time with her







the kiddo trusts me and knows I'm not automatically going to "side" with her mom, anymore than I automatically "side" with her. I offer my opinions and we go from there.

When baby sister was a year old I babysat her for almost a year for pay


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## Boobs (Apr 17, 2004)

I do not envy your situation. It really stinks for everyone involved.

I can't say what you should do. I do wonder, though, why she is so broke with a job with overtime, TANF, and only herself and one baby to care for. Is her rent unreasonable??
The history you have presented sounds very much like something's not right. It really sounds like a hidden drug problem. I hope I'm way off base, but that's what it sounds like to me.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

I have been reading this thread with interest. I have a daughter with a baby about the same age. Luckily she is living with me and I am able to give her all the support I can. But she is very young (17) and not all that responsible. I worry that my attachment to my grandbaby is influencing my willingness to give "too much" support. It is very important to me that my daughter and my grandbaby develop appropriate bonds and that she learns to be the best mother she can be, but without being overwhelmed. I want to give her (and him) all that I can, but I also want to give her room to grow. I love Stevie's story and think it has a perfect ending. I hope I can support my daughter until she is ready to take over fully, and I hope I can do it in a way that fosters both her maternal development and baby's attachment to mom.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cherie2* 
I have been reading this thread with interest. I have a daughter with a baby about the same age. Luckily she is living with me and I am able to give her all the support I can. But she is very young (17) and not all that responsible. I worry that my attachment to my grandbaby is influencing my willingness to give "too much" support. It is very important to me that my daughter and my grandbaby develop appropriate bonds and that she learns to be the best mother she can be, but without being overwhelmed. I want to give her (and him) all that I can, but I also want to give her room to grow. I love Stevie's story and think it has a perfect ending. I hope I can support my daughter until she is ready to take over fully, and I hope I can do it in a way that fosters both her maternal development and baby's attachment to mom.









you are a wonderful mom. And I've been there as well. I had my son at age 18 and my parents were wonderful. I didn't have to worry about a thing until I got a job and eventually moved out, got engaged and now married. They were my support.

Boobs, thats why I'm frustrated...I don't see why she has nothing...she says she is being denied for daycare and utility assistance ...her rent is $400 for a 2 bedroom. I personally think that maybe she should try a 1 bedroom. Braelyn is only 10 months. He will be ok in her room. I've discussed these things, budgeting, etc with her....

I called her back today...her phone is cut off (which she warned me that this may happen soon)...I know her, though. She'll call me from somewhere soon...so..for now we wait..


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## Aridel (Apr 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momz3* 
I called her back today...her phone is cut off (which she warned me that this may happen soon)...I know her, though. She'll call me from somewhere soon...so..for now we wait..

It's great that this thread has helped you think things over! Since you sound like you're still considering things (let me know if I'm wrong!) maybe you can use the time until she calls to make some decisions? Figure out what situation you are willing to work with - short term, long term, how long would you be willing to take him for, like that. When you talk to her, see if you can discuss things with her, preferably face to face. Let her know what you can do, and if you feel like you really can't take him, due to emotional or other issues, be up front about it. Tell her what you can do, even if that's making phone calls to follow up on day care possibilities or just talking when she needs to. Maybe what she needs and what you can do will match up at some point.

It sounds like such a hard situation, and the more you write about it the more unstable and difficult that little boy's life sounds. Hopefully there's some workable solution, even if it's not the ideal one.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

We have guardianship of our cousin under similar circumstances. Having guardianship is definitely important as opposed to just having him stay with you, not only for things like making medical decisions in an emergency, but to avoid the mother being prosecuted for abandonment or cps getting involved. It doesn't have to be permanent, but it really needs to be legal.

Guardianship isn't like babysitting--after a short while, you start to think of and refer to the child as one of your own. That's not a bad thing, in fact it's necessary, but it's something you should be aware of. Your children have to deal with having, for all intents and purposes, a new sibling overnight. You have to be _consciously aware_ of how you treat him relative to your own children--even as babies they can tell, if they're not being fully included. It is a difficult commitment. But if you can do it, you will be an incredible blessing in this child's life.


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## lilliansmom (Nov 2, 2006)

After reading this I wanted to say I can totally see how you would want to take this little boy into your caring and stable home. It sounds like your home is the best place for him to be right now. I think you are doing wonderful services to that little one. I don’t think it matters if your friend is or isn’t taking advantage of your friendship. All that matters is making sure that poor babe is taken care of. Frankly I would not be surprised if 1 month ends up into two and so on. I would go for temporary legal custody for Medical reasons. And please don’t flog me but just you never know if his mama will be coming back. I hope she does and I really hope she gets it together. It sounds like she has had a bad time. Thank goodness for mamas like you!


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Amen to that.


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

I haven't read the full thread (I really should be working), but I wanted to offer a suggestion - can you help her make a plan for her life?

You said you gave her a budget spreadsheet - she may not know what to do with it or the thought of managing her finances may be frightening to her. But going through the exercise of seeing exactly how much everything costs, where the money is going to, what the income needs really are, etc can be illuminating, especially in one so young.

Once you and she have a pretty accurate picture of her financial situation, then you can discuss how she can improve it.
Some options might be:
* child lives with you for X period of time while she makes more money/works longer hours to dig herself out a bit Make the time specific and make the number of visits specific too - that way the situation isn't in limbo. At the end of X, you can always "revisit" the situation - if she hasn't managed to pay Y bill or save $Z, then extend the situation for another X months.

* she moves closer to you (especially if you anticipate she might move in with you if your husband gets deployed). It is easier to give up an apartment than to find a good job. And it makes childcare a lot easier.

* she moves to a different, low cost area, with more options, family, etc.

* she investigates ways to increase her earning potential - does she have a highschool diploma? If no, getting a GED will help a lot. If yes, taking a class or two at a community college or training center might help too. Programs which help graduates find jobs afterwards would be ideal.

* she also investigates other financial aid programs - other childcare resources, government assistance. Is the child insured? That needs to be a top priority.

* maybe getting a car will help her with her income potential. Maybe not - this can be part of the entire calculation.

Basically, you want to help her help herself. That means she needs to make a concrete plan for her life and her boy's life. And she has a wonderful resource in you and your family for support and free childcare to allow herself to get herself together. But you cannot allow her to use you to continue the status quo - there has to be an "out".

Otherwise, she has no accountability and you haven't really helped. And if the situation is bad now, what happens if she gets pregnant again, she or her son gets ill, this or another boyfriend end up as bad news in her life, or some other catastrophy occurs.

Hugs - you are working hard to help your friend and her little boy. And I do believe in the healing power of helping others when dealing with your own grief.

Siobhan


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## crazycandigirl (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momz3* 
Also, I have mentioned daycare assistance to her being that she is receiving welfare already and she said that she doesn't want to do that or they will take away her TANF check (money). THAT is why she wants us to keep him because she can not afford a baby sitter and does not want to lose her monthly benefits by receiving assistance for daycare...


Quote:


Originally Posted by *momz3* 
She said she has applied for daycare assistance. She was declined because she makes too much money (5.85/hr 4-5 days a week). She has tried to get asst. with her electricity and other bills, but they told her they were out of funds for that county.

I live in texas and worked daycare here for 3+ years. We took CCS (child care services) families all the time. Most of them were on TANF, because being on TANF allowed the family to move to the top of the waiting list (which is usually about 18-24 months). I have no idea why they would not let her have both.

Good luck to you and I agree, listen to your heart.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazycandigirl* 
I live in texas and worked daycare here for 3+ years. We took CCS (child care services) families all the time. Most of them were on TANF, because being on TANF allowed the family to move to the top of the waiting list (which is usually about 18-24 months). I have no idea why they would not let her have both.

Good luck to you and I agree, listen to your heart.

I don't know. This is what is out of her mouth. I've never recieved any of this so I'm not really sure what the rules are. I don't know if she's telling the whole truth or just trying to get a babysitter.

But, I did talk to her. I told her that we wouldn't make it. And how I felt about Braelyn and how much we care for them both, however it would not do anyone any good by keeping him for a long period of time (guadianship or not). I know, for me, it would be emotional turmoil to give him back. It'll be like losing another child all over again. Then I got kinda angry and told her that she can not have it all. That we feel like we're being taken advantage of since we've been friends for so long and I've helped her do everything up to this point. I also told her that some of her decisions affect Braelyn, including letting a guy come in, not pay for anything, and use up you phone (which is why its cut off). She didn't say anything the whole time I was talking. I think she was in shock. For 8 years I've rarely told her "no" to anything. Especially when it comes to Braelyn. I didn't get off the phone feeling relieved, either. I felt pretty shitty. In fact I wanted to call right back and say "Nevermind, I'll come get him"...at the end of the "conversation" she finally said "Well...I get off at 4 (she was calling from work) and I'll call you back." and that was it.

Thanks for everyones feedback. We still very much want to keep Braelyn. He is not the problem here...I'm dying to pick up the phone, call her job and tell her about the guardianship thing (we never discussed it). But I think, like some of you said, she may get offended ....

Nothing seems like the right decision.







:


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Whatever path you take will have consequences, but you will find a path that has the best options for you, your children, your dh, Brae, and his mommy... in that order, sort of... and that has the best outlook for the future, and healing after the fact.

No option here is easy, I wish it were, sister...









Everyone here is pulling for you


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mama_b* 
As to whether or not she's taking advantage of you, I don't know. I would lean towards saying no. It sounds like she's desperate, really loves her son, and trusts you to take care of him. And it's really nice of you to be willing to do it. What I don't understand is why you want legal guardianship. What difference would it make? Why can't you just tell her that you really don't like going back and forth 3 hours each way all the time, so you would like to just keep him with you until she gets on her feet.

Haven't read the whole thread, but I agree with this reply. My gut is telling me she's not really trying to take advantage of you, that she's really desperate.


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## Boobs (Apr 17, 2004)

Did she ever call back last night?


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

I thought of a story this morning I thought I would share. A few years ago my dh was working with a young man, he was living with his parents in a tiny inadequate drafty attic with his girlfriend and their 5 mo baby. We let them come to stay with us. Well within 6 months he left his girlfriend for another girl and a week later she found out she was pregnant again. She immediately went to work trying to establish some stability for herself. She contacted AFS and got signed up for day care, food stamps and medical, all while working full time as a hostess at a local restaurant. She got on a waiting list for a low income apartment and they adjusted her rent to her income. She was able to move into her own appt within a couple of months. When she received her tax returns (earned income credit) she was able to buy a car. I am not saying your friend is ready for all this but there is help available out there. My friend was able to get hundreds of dollars a month in food stamps. She only had to pay a moderate copay for her day care and her rent was subsidized adjusted to her income. Her earned income credit allowed her to get over those larger financial humps and she now has housing assistance and is able to rent the home of her choice with that subsidy. I know it can be very hard to make ends meet, I make over $12 an hour and can not make my monthly expenses. You are very kind to help your friend and her ds and I commend you. I just hope that she is willing to take the steps to help herself too. Its sounds like she is not being honest with AFS and trying to hide things from them. Maybe she should come clean and let them help her get on her feet.


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## jaxinsmom (Jul 24, 2006)

I feel for you sooo much right now. Just read this thread and I have no idea what your going through...it must be so tough.
I have a 21yr old cousin who, if she had a baby, would be your friend. I don't know that I could turn her down, but you have to do what is right for you.
Are you still struggling with this, or have you made up your mind?
Like you said before...there is no real 'right' decission...my heart breaks for your situation.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Have you spoken again? How is she doing?


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Just checking in... thoughts are with you.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Sorry guys for not replying.

In answer to your questions, no, I have not heard from her. I take it that she's a little upset. If I know her, it'll pass. I do feel pretty bad though. I think about her and Brae each and every day. Her phone is still cut off so I can not call her...she usually calls from work or someone elses house. But no word.

I feel like such a bad friend, though...I've been there for her from day one..helping her when needed...then I tell her no...in her time of need...I want so bad to just go get Braelyn, though...


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

There is no shame in setting a boundary, and no shame in deciding against it later.... If you ultimately realize between you, youdh, your kids, and your friend, that it's best to help again, then that's that.... good luck! Don't beat yourself up for loving so much!! Keep us posted!


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Be gentle with yourself, but I know exactly how you feel I would feel so awful. But its not fair, you did not create this situation and have done so much to help it. Please give yourself credit for protecting yourself and your family. I wish I could do more of that.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Hey,







just checking in, have you heard from your friend?


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

I was just thinking about you today, too. Hope all is well....


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Hi, sorry I've been comsuming the TTC forum lol..
I talked to her the week before Thanksgiving. She has "dumped" (which is odd because she claimed they were only friends) her male "friend", took back her key and wont let him come over anymore because he called her from a girls house (bunch of drama...)

She said she has found a temp. babysitter from Braelyn, but she doesn't know how long that will last...

I talked to my other friend who said that she asked her case worker if they will cut off TANF if she receives daycare assistance...they said they will not give you the assistance, but raise your TANF if you have to work...so...I still don't know why she says she has been rejected when she is a single mother working a minimum wage job....

We haven't talked in a while...she still wants us to come get Braelyn (yes, even after talking to her). Its very tempting....but we're still saying no. We invited her over for Thanksgiving...but she said that her mom wanted Braelyn there for his first Thanksgiving...so...


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## Ravin (Mar 19, 2002)

This girl reminds me of my sister. Sis had a no-good marriage to a loser and another relationship with an abusive jerk. She worked at Wendy's for crap wages for the longest time, etc. ad nauseum.

What finally gave her some improved self esteem was joining the military. In her case, it was Navy reserve. Yes, there were separations (she went on a deployment to Kuwait, her DD was 5), but my mom kept her DD and while on active duty she could actually afford to send money to help take care of her.

If she had someone willing to hold temporary custody while she was in training and on deployments, the military might be a good option for her. And since the baby would be on Tricare, and you live on a military base... and when she wasn't deployed, she would have money to pay for good child care and single parents get top priority at most base child care centers, etc. You know the benefits of military life. Yes, it would be tough, but in many ways a lot more stable for her and her son, and she could probably pick up some job skills that would serve her once she got out so she could find a better paying job (and/or she could go to school on the GI Bill).


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## bburnie2 (Sep 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ravin* 
This girl reminds me of my sister. Sis had a no-good marriage to a loser and another relationship with an abusive jerk. She worked at Wendy's for crap wages for the longest time, etc. ad nauseum.

What finally gave her some improved self esteem was joining the military. In her case, it was Navy reserve. Yes, there were separations (she went on a deployment to Kuwait, her DD was 5), but my mom kept her DD and while on active duty she could actually afford to send money to help take care of her.

If she had someone willing to hold temporary custody while she was in training and on deployments, the military might be a good option for her. And since the baby would be on Tricare, and you live on a military base... and when she wasn't deployed, she would have money to pay for good child care and single parents get top priority at most base child care centers, etc. You know the benefits of military life. Yes, it would be tough, but in many ways a lot more stable for her and her son, and she could probably pick up some job skills that would serve her once she got out so she could find a better paying job (and/or she could go to school on the GI Bill).


That actually sounds like one of the best ideas yet!!!


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

LOL funny cause I brought the military up about awhile back when she was homeless. She said she wasn't interested and even if she was, she has scholiosis (sp?) and they may not take her.

But guess what? Yep, she called today. Her house phone is cut off, so she has switched to a prepaid cell. her life is all drama...she talked for nearly an hour. According to her, she's dated a "few" guys. SHe says her old friend would get angry at the diff guys he saw going in her house...
She has let her "friend" move backk in..and...they are not dating, but have been having sex.
She thinks she is pregnant
She said that if she was she'd "give it to me" and she'd keep Braelyn because he's older and easier to handle.
She has been late on her rent and her landlord will NOT renew her lease here in January so she'll be homeless again.
She has yet to find a job.
She still claims, even though her friends mom watches Braelyn, she's known me way longer and would feel better if we had him here.

I normally have sympathy for her...but getting drunk and dating a bunch of ppl isn't a way to get your life on track. She was supposed to be looking for a job. She said she was.


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## TexasSuz (Mar 4, 2002)

I really do encourage you to get this woman out of your life for good. She will make her own mistakes and live her life the way she she's fit regardless of what you do or think. I think you are too emotionally involved and it it not healthy for you. I think you got too attached to her child and are hoping to raise him because you feel that you could give him a better life. I am afraid that in the end you will just get hurt worse because she is not going to just give you her child even if she is messing up his life.

Concentrate on your own life and kids and let her find someone else to talk to - she is not a healthy friend for you and her child is not your responsibility.

I hope you find some peace about it.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Wow! She sounds like she needs help, but not the kind you can give, I'm afraid...

Some assistance programs are a real PAIN in the kisser and require pointed, consistent effort to get on-board; maybe she just doesn't wanna have to bother with all the forms and so on, because she really COULD get some help. But feeling low, she is turning to alcohol and boys to make her feel better... "If only some knight in shining armor would take care of us..." I know I sound harsh, but I swear I went thru this with my best friend of 25 years, and she didn't get better until she hit the bottom, her friends turned their backs on her, she lost her dd to a sister, and had to claw her way back from the brink to get her dd. Your friend is looking for an easy way out, and self-medicating to numb the pain (she must be beating herself up a lot!), and seeking validation from men, until a better, easier option (like you and your family just taking him, even tho it would be painful) presents itself.

You are a kind blessed soul and desire for her and her boy to have a good life and there's nothing wrong with _wanting_ the best for them, and even taking some few steps to help, if you can. But not at the expense of your own emotional well-being... she will suck you dry, if you let her... she needs more than you can EVER possibly have to give.

Keep encouraging her, but keep her at arm's distance... people when they are that desparate and low can be dangerous. I'm NOT saying she would knowingly hurt you or your family, but you are emotionally open and vulnerable and I'd be afraid she might manipulate you into doing more than you ought to by playing on that vulnerability.


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Oh momz3 this sounds very sad... for the little boy, for your friend and for yourself too. I agree with pp, you need to see to it that she starts owning her problems. She needs to. Or she will get into bigger and bigger ones. I admire you because throughout this thread you have never been harsh on her or judgemental. I am sure her deep problems arise from her lack of trust towards herself. Deep down, she wants to give you her baby because she thinks you'd be a better mom. I hope she can see that she is a loving caring mommy for her child and the best mom in the world for him. She just needs to recognize that this is so. And then it will be. All the issues can be resolved, she can get help, the right kind of help to hold on to her kids!!! It must be so very hard for you to go through so many things at once.


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