# Prostitution: Victimless crime? Womens issue?



## anothermama (Nov 11, 2003)

Last night DH and I watched a documentary about Pimps and Hos in Chicago. This, along with a story I recently heard on "This American Life" has got me thinking.......

All you wacko liberal tree huggin' ladies......







(and the conservative ladies too!)

What do you think of prositution? I know many feel it's a "victimless crime" but is it really? As we've been discussing abortion and womens rights to them, do women have the "right" to sell their body as well if they chose to?

Should we crack down harder to end prositution? Is the current method of handling prostitution acceptable? Should we just say "screw it!" and legalize it everywhere? And why is it legal in a few places and not others???


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## Elphaba (Nov 19, 2001)

I'd legalize it.

Slightly OT but since you already seem to find sex trade an interesting topic, you might want to read "Brothel." A journalist stayed at the Mustang Ranch for a lengthy period, maybe 3 years? and wrote about the women who worked there. It was really interesting to read and learn about women actually in the sex business.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Yep, I'd legalize it too.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

Me, three.


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## Harper (Jul 10, 2003)

I would make sure that women had enough access to education and jobs so that selling their bodies to men for money would not have to be a consideration.


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## anothermama (Nov 11, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by asherah_
*Me, three.*
WOW!!

What are the positives to legalization? What about the health issues? What about the possibility of more women being victimized by their pimps because the pimp is now in a "legal" business??


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

I have no problem with prostitution AS LONG AS the woman is working for herself, of her own free will. No pimps, no forcing. And adults only.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by anothermama_
*WOW!!

What are the positives to legalization? What about the health issues? What about the possibility of more women being victimized by their pimps because the pimp is now in a "legal" business??*
Maybe you should check out some info on the way it's done in Nevada. Their aren't "pimps". and the health issue has already been dealt with there also.

The positives of legalization are getting rid of pimps (which are a product of it being illegal) and requiring regular health screening with the "work card".


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

I also think that prostitution should be legal. For both genders.

Bottom line - it is MY body, and if it is the only way to make $$, then why shouldn't I sell it? People sell their body in terms of physical labor, in terms of hadncraftsmanship, why not for sex?

I agree that there should be things in place, only adults, health care, etc. just like a real job. Safety insured for the seller. By choice only, obviously.

In terms of positives - if it were legal, crime related to it would go down (saving police officers time, courts time, jail space). And then also you can tax their income, more revenue.

So there are my feelings on it.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

If you've read it before, you don't need to again









In a society that purports to be "the land of the free" is is downright ludicrous that sexual activity between consenting adults is AT ALL restricted.

To simplifiy:

Legalize prostituation.


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## Elphaba (Nov 19, 2001)

Yes, when it's legal the prostitutes are registered and get regular health screenings. There's not a pimp, though they do have to give some earnings to "the house" to cover their rent and such.

I just don't think buying and selling sexual services is shameful. Hell, every woman that's had sex with a man who paid for dinner and a movie or bought her presents could be viewed as prostituting herself.


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Legalization has all sorts of positives, and I can't see any negatives. Ensuring greater health care for the women themselves, safety standards being applied ... and the elimination of the parasites who force women into sexual slavery, etc. ...

It would be nice if all women could choose less demeaning ways of making a living ... and this includes involvement in the making of pornography, etc. ... but since women are in the position and can make a living at it, it makes no sense to have it underground.

Hey, at the very least the government could increase its tax revenue ...


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## asha (Mar 5, 2002)

I think this is a VERY feminist issue, and has to do with a lot more than "if a woman wants to sell her body, it's her business">

Why do people prostitute themselves? Because they enjoy it? I'd bet not, in 95%or more of the cases. I know a woman who resorted to selling oral sex to buy food for her kids. She didn't enjoy it. Would you enjoy any random man, smelly, ugly mean whatever, sticking himself into one of your body's orifices? Then maybe beating you up for the fun of it?

I believe most women sell themselves because they get sucked in at an early age due to abuse; they can't support themselves any other way; someone tricked or kidnapped them into it.

I believe prostitution has to do with womens economic and social standing, and also with men feeling entitled to sex, any kind of sex they want, and men's feelings of power-over.


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## dado (Dec 31, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by anothermama_
*All you wacko liberal tree huggin' ladies......*
not a way i'd wilingly choose to make a living, but making it illegal just makes a bad scene even worse for (almost) everybody. not to mention the mysoginistic way the laws are enforced - like why is the hooker in jail but Jerry Falwell not? unless the customers are also going to be charged, the laws should be thrown out on equal protection grounds.


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## emmasayshi (Dec 5, 2003)

I'd legalize it but I don't like it. I just don't believe in victimless crimesand I think that a hooker is a victim anyway.


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## Elphaba (Nov 19, 2001)

emmasayshi, you do know that Monster is a greatly fictionalized accounting of Wournos' life, right?


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## Els' 3 Ones (Nov 19, 2001)

Most of the girls from the streets that I've met were addicts. That is a sad life all the way around...........

They also would not get jobs as prostitutes bcuz of their health so they would still be underground doing it.

El


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I have a cousin in jail for Male prostitution and crack cocaine. So I am all for educating to prevent addictive drug use. I think some drugs (like pot) should be legalized and taxed (after they find a way to do something like blood alcohol levels).

I would like to see it legalized. No it is not a best job for any male or female to have but it can pay well.

No, I don't think women or men enjoy it but neither do they enjoy scrubbing toilets out. Ask my neighbor how much he enjoys have sh#$ thrown on him from prisoners? He does not like it one bit but it pays the bills and puts food on his table for his children. If you have to choose evils what would you rather choose 8 hours a day cleaning up other's peoples #@$# for 5-6 bucks an hour or an hours worth of sucking a guy off for 20-50 bucks?

If it is legalize at least it can be an honest choice in a industry with regulation and standards. If the prostitute is controlling the situation it is "easy" work. It is no less degrading than the crap maids and housekeepers go through.

It is like strippers. Working one or two nights giggling her tits is far easier than 30-40 hours a week scrapping by at another job. It pays for their food, kids food, and schooling to get away from it. Some actually make big bucks doing it and that is why they find enjoy it $$$$$$$$$$$. Yes, there are sleazes in the industry and abuses but not all. Some of them can be eliminated but not all.

Yes, street prostitutes are often addicts, mental issues, and/or homeless but there are high end ESCORT







services. Take a look at the high end users of prostitutes. Those ladies ussually have to be very clean.


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## Els' 3 Ones (Nov 19, 2001)

I forgot to mention that I think it should be legal.


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## mahdokht (Dec 2, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Marsupialmom_
*I

If you have to choose evils what would you rather choose 8 hours a day cleaning up other's peoples #@$# for 5-6 bucks an hour or an hours worth of sucking a guy off for 20-50 bucks?

.*








you're kidding right? I choose option A.... and an HOUR well I'll shut up now.

edited: NO, it should be illegal.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

All the problems associated with prostitution - such as STDs, murder and rape - also happen when women have sex for free.

It makes no sense that I can have sex with one new partner each day and not use condoms and that's fine, as long as I don't make any money off it, but that if I have one new partner each year and we use protection and I charge a dollar, I have committed a crime.

Also, why is prostitution legal when it's videotaped and sold? Adult film stars are still having sex for money. I don't get it.

If someone truly wants to make a living that way and is happy about it, I have no problem. I have a problem with it when they are forced into it or feel they have no other way to support themselves. I have only known a few prostitutes personally, and none of them were happy about it. They were all victims. One was only 15. And they really didn't make that much money.

And I don't see why the punishment for being a prostitute is so much greater than the punishment for pimping them out, or for buying their services.

A lot of traditional marriages fit the description of prostitution. The wife doesn't desire her husband sexually; she just trades sex for security and a home, and he doesn't give her the choice to refuse. I think any sex that is exchanged for something other than sex is prostitution. I guess by that definition I have been a prostitute; I used to be homeless and sleep with guys for places to stay. I don't think I should be charged with a crime.


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## dado (Dec 31, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Marsupialmom_
*an hours worth of sucking a guy off for 20-50 bucks?*
an hour???







now THAT'S amore!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

How in the world do you do, uh, that for an hour? Can a guy really last that long?


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

I hate to say it but yes some can. I had an ex who took at least that long. Doing that exact thing.









And now back on topic please! :LOL


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

Legalize it.

And then destroy the socio-economic conditions which lead women and some men to sell their bodies or access to them in order to survive.

I've known sex workers, and depending on what you do it can be really horrible or totally do-able, but I've never known anyone who does it because they enjoy it. It's more about it being a better option than working long hours for very very little, as marsupialmom points out.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Legal, definitely, especially if you are worried about the women being protected and taking care of their bodies. If it is legal they can seek healthcare and protection when needed. Holland has legal prositution, and a very low rate of STDs and AIDS. They have public clinics for prostitutes, where they can all receive quality healthcare. They can receive protection from the police if they need it without fear of prosecution.

A woman has a right to do what she wants with her body. We allow women to pose nude and porn videos. How is charging $100 for a quickie any different than screwing rich men to get them to buy you stuff? That's certainly not illegal.

I'd rather eat rats for dinner than sleep with someone I didn't want to, but that's my personal choice.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I think we should move away from the lock jaw themes lest we get closed down

:LOL


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Have to admit I was *ass*uming more than one customer in that 24 hour period.

I do wonder if legalizing prostitution would help to lessen some forms of violence towards women (assuming, of course, that the stigma of using a prostitutes services also decreased). Just musing here. I think the incidence of date rape would go down if a man *knew* for $50 he could go "get some." And what a stress reliever. And think--- what a great "divorce present."

I 100% believe prostitution should be legal. There is a LOT of money out there ripe for the picking. It would decrease crime (directly because prostitution would no longer be a crime and indirectly because prostitution currently works hand in hand with other crimes). It would increase tax revenues. It would free police to deal with actual crimes (read: not exchanges between consenting adults).

Our society has gone long past acknowledging that people have sex for pleasure. Why not make it clean and safe(r) for those involved?


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

I think the incidence of date rape would go down if a man *knew* for $50 he could go "get some."
Prostitutes have the right to refuse as well. (Not as prostitutes, but as women.) They could change their mind at any time, as long as they gave the money back. I sometimes decide in the middle of sex that I'd rather not, and I'm glad to be with someone who acknowledges and supports that right and doesn't say "But you promised!" (There have been times when I did "promise" that tonight was the night, and then change my mind in the middle of it.)

Prostitution is widely available, even if it is illegal. Men know where to go. It hasn't stopped rape.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Just hashed this very topic out with DH.

I am assuming there is a lot of date rape in the 18-23 crowd. What if there were brothels a short walk away from college campuses? I really do think this would cut back A LOT on date rape. I certainly wouldn't have known where to find a prostitute in my home town, college town or the town I currently live in. Sure, if I had a car and could have gone to the city, maybe. But I also didn't have a car til the year I got married (not that I was committing a lot of date rape, but I'm sure there are other people in my situation).

And of course prostitutes can say no. But assuming it is just a horny young guy, not some violent ogre, given that they are prostitutes *would* they (after accepting them as a client...)?

Quote:

Prostitution is widely available, even if it is illegal. Men know where to go. It hasn't stopped rape.
Just confirmed with DH--- he could find a prostitute *now* (given he has a car and access to a major city w/in 30 minutes). He says he would not have known "how" in high school and in college would not have known where to go in the relatively small town.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

I am assuming there is a lot of date rape in the 18-23 crowd. What if there were brothels a short walk away from college campuses? I really do think this would cut back A LOT on date rape.
If rape were all about sex, then yes, it might help. But since it's about power, control, hatred of women, disrespect, etc. I don't think it would.

Men who rape their dates, girlfriends and wives will also rape prostitutes. And if a man is turned down by a woman right when he thinks he's about to have sex, he's not going to be satisfied with leaving and finding a prostitute. He's most likely going to get very angry that someone would dare "come on to him" and then refuse. A man who is likely to be reasonable about women's desires and rights is probably more likely to just go home and masturbate than to look for a prostitute.

Prostitutes are often raped. The fact that they are always available and not likely to refuse hasn't helped them be safe from predators.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I'm just saying *some* not all date rapes/violence towards women might be avoided.

And you can't argue that the "crime" of prostitution would competely go away









In addition, in a well regulated environment, I would assume that violence *towards* prostitutes (by both employer & customer) would greatly decrease. If they could press charges for assault without admitting to a crime themselves, it would have to go down (decreasing violence towards women). And customers who did attempt to rape prostitutes *would* have repurcussions.


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## kate42 (Feb 2, 2003)

Legalize it. Everyone else has already posted my reasons.


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## MamaSoleil (Apr 24, 2002)

If prostitution was legalized, and a woman was beat up on the job, she could have the guy charged. If it was legal, and the 'pimp' was pushing her around, she could make a complaint to the labour board. If prostitution was legal, health issues would be looked after. If prostitution was legal, the crime net would be lessened, and save on money and time and allow for more officers to look after violent crimes.

I think it should be legal.
It's my body, if I want to make money off it, then hey. why not? And yeah, about prositution on video, models? They all live off their bodies!
Not sure about the correlation between date rape and legalization though....










ps:Adina







:


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## grisandole (Jan 11, 2002)

Legaize it! Everyone's stated the reasons. I especially don't get why it's legal to have sex for money on tape (porn) but not without the camera there......

Kristi


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Whaf if you're making a video and then you realize you forgot to plug in the camera? Oops, now you're a prostitute!


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

:LOL


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

I have mixed feelings about it, but on the whole, I guess I favor legalization, for the reasons others have stated. I don't think women selling their bodies is a good thing, but I can see how it would be preferable to some over minimum wage work. And I think it is up to them to make the choice.

The one negative I see is that I do think that it would increase the total amount of prostitution. There are some men who don't do it specifically because it is illegal.


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## spatulagirl (Feb 21, 2002)

Legalize it!

I have been saying this for a decade or so (and always got in trouble with people for saying it). Why? For all the reasons listed already.

We could have a really nice society with high class safe brothels where the women are their own bosses and if some john tries to hurt them they can kick them out or charge them with assault.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Okay, at the risk of banging on about Australia ENDLESSLY, I'm going to jump in here at the end. Certain types of prostitution are legal in my city (& I think, across the whole country). A woman or man can work from home, or she/he can work in a highly regulated brothel. Health checks & safety regs are in place. You can advertise in the newspaper for your services, but you may NOT 'walk the street'. I never see any prostitutes just hanging around, for this very reason, but I think there are quite a few around 'cuz we are 1. a port town (get American warships now & again- the guys go get a tattoo & a you-know-what when they get to town. 2. we are a military town, Air Force & Army. 3. we are a mining base town ie: workers fly in/fly out of here.

Legalised prostitution is so not in your face here. the gov't is trying to make it safe for the sex workers, which is commendable. It is the world's second oldest profession after all!


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I think that legalizing prostitution will make it less likely for women to be victimized. It will generally reduce the suffering of sex workers.

But on some level, I am grossed out by people selling sex. It seems like something you would only choose to do if you were in desperate economic straits, or if you were trying to work out psychological issues related to sexual abuse and rape. I mean, I would rather have it be legal than illegal because I want to protect people in those situations, but I can't feel like sex work is like any other work.

I do consider myself "sex positive"--I mean, I like sex as much as the next person--I just don't think that being sex positive means thinking it's cool for sex to be commodified.

Though I guess for many people, sexuality is commodified even when they aren't in sex work.


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## wende (Oct 4, 2003)

I've, personally, had sex with men I hardly knew for free. Any number of things could have happened to me as a result. There was nothing at all illegal about my actions though. Nothing prevented me from getting an STD other than myself. Nothing prevented those men from beating the crap out of me or killing me except themselves. Other than the fact that money is exchanged, why is prostitution any different?

There are very few negatives to legalizing prostitution and many, many positives. For one, there are not enough bed spaces in the jails as it stands. We spend about $50k or more a year per inmate in prison (it may actually be more but I can't remember the correct number off hand). It costs a LOT to house an inmate. The money saved from not inprisoning prostitutes, johns, and pimps could go to educating these women and health services.

Prostitutes are more likely to get STD's because it's not legal. Legalizing it would not lead to more STD's, it would actually lead to less. In the brothels the women are required to pass an STD check. They cannot work if they have any STD's. They also keep protection readily on hand. They are educated on how and why to use them. They are not required to use them, but they know the consequenses (lack of job) if they get something that can't be cleared up. Losing their income is often more of a deterrent than anything and they are likely to be careful.

Many prostitues are mothers. Would you rather that mother be able to go home to her children at the end of her work day or would you rather her children find out "mommy went to jail again" or "mommy got killed turning a trick tonight"?

Those who are prostitutes and who visit prostitutes will do so whether it's legal or not. Would I become a prostitute if it were legal? No, not any more than I'd do it now. It's just not something that I could do. My dh, however, spent 6 years doing heroin. You bet your ass that he did whatever he needed to do to get his drugs and he never stopped twice to think about whether or not what he was doing was going to land him in jail. He would not have sobered up any quicker because he went to jail, neither would he have been an active addict any longer simply because it was legal. The only difference would have been that he would have had a safer way to go about it. Would I want one of my children to be a prostitute? Of course not, but if it was the road that they decided to go down I would want them to have as many options to be safe as humanly possible. I don't want to think of anyone giving a bj in a dirty bathroom stall, especially someone I love.

Why is prostitution illegal while filming a porn movie legal? The end result is the same. Someone has sex with someone else for money. Porn is a billion dollar industry. If prostitution were legal, and those prostitutes were required to file taxes, just imagine the revenue for the states! Imagine for just a second how much good could come out of that money.

One more thing, I would HATE to think of my dh cheating on me with anyone, however, if here were one to cheat he would do it no matter what. He wouldn't take the time to think about my health and safety. Instead, he would find some guy or girl wherever and have sex with that person. I would much rather him go to a legal brothel where he's less likely to bring something home to me than to some random woman in a bar who, for all he knows, has just recently had sex, legally, with half the bar, unprotected.


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## Paxetbonum (Jul 16, 2003)

I think that no woman has the right to be abused. Prostitution is abuse wether you enjoy it or not.
Wether or not the federal government should be the ones telling us its illegal is another matter. I think that its foolish to try and enforce something like illegal prostution. Police action is not the answer.

Educating women and men to appreciate the sacred meaning of the body and to respect themselves and others as human persons deserving dignity and respect will end prostitution.

So I suppose i don't think it should be illegal in the sense of "you can get arrested if you are a prostitute." I think that there should be outreach programs privatley operated by local communities to help these women gain the respect they deserve and find jobs that are not dehumanizing.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Did I mention that all the brothel rooms have a panic button installed? And the clients know the workers will use it if necessary. All sex workers are trained to check for obvious signs of STDs as well. And they must have regular health checks & paperwork on file to prove they are healthy.


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## sincitymama (Sep 20, 2003)

I absolutely think it should be legal, for all the reasons other posters have mentioned. I think it's my body and I can do what I darn well please with it. Right now if I were in a financial bind or something I could easily run down to the local strip bar and shake around on stage and hope people threw some cash my way. If it were legal, I could instead get my health checked out and turn a few tricks for a pre-set price. No more demeaning than the dancing, in my view, and maybe even more stable. For someone who hates crowds it might seem a better option. Would I choose it? No. But there have been times in my life I might have, and why shouldn't I have the option? For someone trying to put themselves through school it could be a viable choice, much as women are stripping their way through college tuition right now. With the money they could make they might even have a lot more time to study rather than bust their butt 40hrs a week waiting tables or working retail just to be able to go to class. Am I rambling? Sorry. But I don't think it's any more demeaning than stripping or making porn movies/magazines. Maybe even less demeaning due to the lack of audience.


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## Snowy Owl (Nov 16, 2003)

I'm really surprised that only one person here said it should be illegal. Though she didn't give any reasons for it.
I completely agree that it should be legal...
Making it illegal is part of the "vice=crime' mentality we have in North America.
That's what led to prohibition...what a colossal failure! There is this idea that something we don't agree with 'morally' should be illegal and those who break these arbitrary laws are criminals. There is a big difference between A: murder, assault, vandalism, even speeding, and B: the sex-trade, drug use etc. The former are crimes because they take rights away from someone else, the latter are personal decisions that affect only the person involved, but are seen as 'wrong'.
The law does not have a right to make such ethical personal decisions for us. Besides, people will do it anyway.


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