# I will tell you Why Anti-Walmart



## greenwoman2006

Please check out this site:

http://walmartwatch.com/

Click on "Issues" on the top bar. It brings up all the issues concerning Sprawlmart. They include Discrimination against the disabled, minority workers, and women (the latter being the largest class action lawsuit in US history). Other issues are health care, union busting, the environment (don't believe the lies people), political influence and taxes (did you know the CEO, Steve Walton is a personal close friend of George W. Bush?), community impact (putting small business out of business), Corporate culture, and finally, the Supply Chain (where sweatshops and places like Sai Pan come into play).

And for the past decade or so, Walmart and other corporations have had factories in Sai Pan that basically uses indentured servants (slaves), that are women from Asian countries, to work their factories, and there are horrors like forced abortions, terrible living conditions, and more.

I am tired of hearing people and reading posts from people about how they have to shop at Walmart because they are too poor. Shop at thrift stores. Shop at small businesses. Shop your local farmer's market. Make things when you can.

People need to stop shopping at Walmart. Now. It is disgusting. It is the worst thing that you can do for your environment, your community, and your family. And everyone's future.


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## SamuraiMom

:

I also want to mention that Sams Club is a Walmart company.





























:


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## holyhelianthus

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greenwoman2006* 
I am tired of hearing people and reading posts from people about how they have to shop at Walmart because they are too poor. Shop at thrift stores. Shop at small businesses. Shop your local farmer's market. Make things when you can.

i worked at Wal Mart for two years along with DH and let me tell you we are not fans! but let's be realistic and a little kinder to our fellow human beings. not everyone has the luxuries you mentioned above. it doesn't make them evil people or ignorant etc etc. don't judge until you have to live in these people's area and out of their wallets.







:


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## AllieFaye

greenwoman2006 said:


> [QUOTE political influence and taxes (did you know the CEO, Steve Walton is a personal close friend of George W. Bush?), /QUOTE]
> 
> Well, then, maybe they are almost conservative enough for me to support them. Nah, they aren't because of THIS:
> 
> http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/community/eminent.html
> 
> And THIS:
> 
> http://www.beliefnet.com/blogs/crunc...ee-market.html
> 
> And more, that conservatives can find for themselves or pm me about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :
> 
> There are few topics that can mobilize _both_ conservatives and liberals, but the abuses Walmart engages in is one of them. Walmart must be really, really bad to somehow manage that!


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## TheTruth

You complain about making less money for being a woman yet men: Gave you the right to vote, in the event of a fire or flood get your fat ass out before leaving themselves, typically pay for the food on a date, and buys you jewelery because thats one of the few reasons you love him.


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## Natalya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *magstphil* 
i worked at Wal Mart for two years along with DH and let me tell you we are not fans! but let's be realistic and a little kinder to our fellow human beings. not everyone has the luxuries you mentioned above. it doesn't make them evil people or ignorant etc etc. don't judge until you have to live in these people's area and out of their wallets.







:

yes, please don't judge! BUT, i am a single student mother, on welfare, and i manage not to shop at walmart EVER. i think people who want to look down on others for shopping at walmart should _first_ be doing everything they possibly can to help those people NOT to shop there.


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## mama ganoush

AllieFaye said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *greenwoman2006*
> [QUOTE political influence and taxes (did you know the CEO, Steve Walton is a personal close friend of George W. Bush?), /QUOTE]
> 
> Well, then, maybe they are almost conservative enough for me to support them. Nah, they aren't because of THIS:
> 
> http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/community/eminent.html
> 
> And THIS:
> 
> http://www.beliefnet.com/blogs/crunc...ee-market.html
> 
> And more, that conservatives can find for themselves or pm me about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :
> 
> There are few topics that can mobilize _both_ conservatives and liberals, but the abuses Walmart engages in is one of them. Walmart must be really, really bad to somehow manage that!
> 
> 
> wow, how refreshing to see a true conservative in the house. Been awhile.


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## delfuego

It's funny, I hear that same argument from people who shop at Wal-Mart about how they are too poor to shop anywhere else. Then, the same people buy all sorts of crap they never needed because it was cheap. They probably end up spending more money than if they had just gone to the regular grocery store and bought what was on their shopping list.

I stopped shopping at Wal-Mart... let's see, about 7 years ago. I noticed pretty quickly that I spent _alot_ less money and was much happier not thinking that I always had to buy stuff. I also got rid of my tv about the same time so that helped too.


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## Mom2Madolyn

I haven't shopped at Walmart for over a year now unless it's something I need online (like a sewing machine)
Ours is skanky and gross here


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## KarenEMT

Thank you for posting this. I boycott Wal-Mart and have for some time.

They wanted to put a store next to my town in a completely inappropriate location and we formed a citizen's group and beat them, but it took a long time and lots of $$$.


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## cece

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KarenEMT* 
Thank you for posting this. I boycott Wal-Mart and have for some time.

They wanted to put a store next to my town in a completely inappropriate location and we formed a citizen's group and beat them, but it took a long time and lots of $$$.
















You rock for doing that! They are working on keeping WalMart (or any other for that matter) Super stores out of San Diego area. It's disgusting to me that there is even a possibility for them, there are 3 Wal-Marts in Oceanside already! It's ridiculous. Thanks for reminding me to help out in any way possible.


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## maymorales

Aside from all of the ethics behind shopping at Wal-Mart, I always wonder how people cope w/the chaos of meandering through the crowded parking lot and conjested aisles?









Serious question, though. Is McDonalds equal to Wal-Mart now that you see many of the golden arches in a Wal-Mart? I hate the marketing of the silly promotional toys. Even homeschooled and TV-free kids can't escape the magnetic attraction of, say, a Shrek toy or a Pirates of the Carribean gadget.

I'm wondering if McDonald's is lesser of two evils?


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## MrsMike

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greenwoman2006* 

I am tired of hearing people and reading posts from people about how they have to shop at Walmart because they are too poor. Shop at thrift stores. Shop at small businesses. Shop your local farmer's market. Make things when you can.

I'm sorry you are tired of hearing it. I'm tired of living it, myself. Trust me, if I had other options I'd use them. I try to avoid shopping there as much as possible, but when times are especially tough, which is often lately, I get some things there. My dh works there so the discount is helpful. We live in a wealthy area. The majority of the people here make 6 figures or above. Only 3% of our area's population is in our low income bracket. Thrift stores do not have food. The majority of the farmer's markets in our area are more expensive than the grocery store. I do try to shop the inexpensive ones when I can, but their selection is usually very tiny or they are not open. Being a yuppie town, small businesses have completely died. The only small businesses here are auto repair. I do try to make things when I can, but I am so not talented in that area








I am dreaming of the day when we are in a better situation and can shop at better places. When that happens, I will quite happily stop shopping at Wal-Mart and other big stores. Until then...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 
It's funny, I hear that same argument from people who shop at Wal-Mart about how they are too poor to shop anywhere else. Then, the same people buy all sorts of crap they never needed because it was cheap. They probably end up spending more money than if they had just gone to the regular grocery store and bought what was on their shopping list.

I can only speak for myself, but we don't buy crap we don't need. I stick to my list.


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## jeca

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greenwoman2006* 
\
I am tired of hearing people and reading posts from people about how they have to shop at Walmart because they are too poor. Shop at thrift stores. Shop at small businesses. Shop your local farmer's market. Make things when you can.

Ok I get the thrift store thing for clothes and used goods but you lost me at the rest. What about places where farmers markets aren't open year round? We only have a farmers market two months out of the year so what about the other twelve months? And most small businesses have higher prices than megastores like walmart so how is that going to save them money? If your going to offer alternatives because people are using the "poor excuse" they need to at least be workable. I'm glad we have the commissary to shop at otherwise I can see shopping walmart for their prices.


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## Tilia

Isn't shopping at Wal-Mart only for food hurting the store? Because they are a loss leader?

I don't shop at Wal-Mart because I was one of those people who always bought junky useless stuff I didn't need! Plus I quit chemical cleaners, detergents, and body products, paper products and disposable diapers. There is really nothing there for me.


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## tuansprincess

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2005* 
Isn't shopping at Wal-Mart only for food hurting the store? Because they are a loss leader?

I don't shop at Wal-Mart because I was one of those people who always bought junky useless stuff I didn't need! Plus I quit chemical cleaners, detergents, and body products, paper products and disposable diapers. There is really nothing there for me.

I thought this until about two weeks ago and continued to by food/groceries from Wal-mart even though I felt icky for doing so. Then I read this

In case you have to be a subscriber, this is the gyst:

Quote:

=An estimated 140 million rural Chinese have already left their homes and another 45 million are expected to join the urban workforce in the next five years.

The stories told in this article reveal that the bulk of the Chinese are not benefiting from this massive increase in economic growth. They are losing their connection to ancient traditions in exchange for a piece of the "good life," which never materializes.

The Western countries that "benefit" from the explosive growth of imported fresh produce from China have the potential for some pretty dire health ramifications. The real price for cheap strawberries year-round may end up being your health.

Factory-farming is really only good for the owner of the factory, not the workers and not the recipients. When you abandon time-tested methods of growing food and start the processing early up the food chain you significantly deteriorate the quality of the food.

China is now almost as well known for toxic food ingredients as they are for cheap electronics.
So for health and morality reasons I have completely stopped shopping at Wal-mart and we are editing our budget accordingly. Not easy, but thankfuly do-able. And it feels SO GOOD!


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## Mamamazing

I feel really bad for poor rural people who don't have an option to shop anywhere else.

Fortunately, I live in a wealthy area with a lot of food options open to me. Walmart is a very small store that gets little business because we have nicer options. A half-hour away, they have a super walmart but that area is poorer and more rural. I don't shop at walmart for all the reasons mntioned. I shop at a local family owned whole foods store when I can. I am starting to buy grass fed organic milk because I worry about all the corn that finds its way into our foodchain. I also shop at Wegmans, but I like supporting the small store.


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## jesrox

I have managed to not shop at wal-mart for almost 2 years now...we get most of our groceries at Publix, get a lot of dry goods and food at Costco, get organic food for the baby at Whole Foods and get everything else at Target. It does make our Saturday shopping expeditions a bit long...but it is worth it to me to not support Wal-Mart!!!

Publix has a lot of organic food now, and target carries a ton of Method non-toxic cleaning products...I love being Wal-Mart FREE!!!!

We are not rolling in the dough- pretty solidly middle class(I'm a social worker, fiance works for aluminum company).


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## Esper

I have to say that I am in one of those low-income situations. I'm 7 months pregnant with no job, BF goes to college full-time and has a job at office max making minimum wage. We would not have a place to live if it wasn't for his student loans. WIC, food stamps, freecycle, the farmers' market and food pantries have been a life saver. They make it possible for me to have absolutely no need for Wal-mart, and I couldn't be happier.


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## maygee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Natalya* 
yes, please don't judge! BUT, i am a single student mother, on welfare, and i manage not to shop at walmart EVER. i think people who want to look down on others for shopping at walmart should _first_ be doing everything they possibly can to help those people NOT to shop there.

I shop at thrift stores several times a week with my little lists of things to get- dish drainer, curtain- things around the house that I hate to pay full price for. Art Supplies are so cheap at thrift stores! I think I buy about 75 percent of my household stuff used. However, when I can't find something for weeks used, I tend to break down and buy it at "the place that must not be named." Either there or Fred Meyer. And I get fabric there from time to time, but I find that used a lot too. I think that Walmart sucks and I think that buying things new sucks too. And the thing I always seem to forget is that when I finally do break down and just get it at WM, it is the crappiest quality! I bought an ironing board there because everything was a little worn at the thrift store, but this one I got was toxic and shoddy- It'll probably break in a month, so is it really cheaper if you have to buy things over and over? Overall I feel okay about what I'm doing because I'm genuinely striving to use as little resources as I can, but I can always try to be better. I really wish fabric wasn't such an expensive thing- the only local place has mainly high end fabrics at min 8 bucks a yard, and most are 10-30! I wonder if Jo-anns is as crappy as walmart? Anyways, my post is meandering and disjointed, but all I'm trying to say is that we all should do what we can and strive to do better.


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## Gemini05

Quote:

It's funny, I hear that same argument from people who shop at Wal-Mart about how they are too poor to shop anywhere else. Then, the same people buy all sorts of crap they never needed because it was cheap. They probably end up spending more money than if they had just gone to the regular grocery store and bought what was on their shopping list.

I stopped shopping at Wal-Mart... let's see, about 7 years ago. I noticed pretty quickly that I spent alot less money and was much happier not thinking that I always had to buy stuff. I also got rid of my tv about the same time so that helped too.








:

I have an honest question, and I don't mean it to offend anyone! Is there nowhere else to buy groceries? Where I live, there are 5 grocery stores other than Wal-Mart (all within a close distance to one another) to choose from. A couple of them are "higher-end", but the other 3 have very competitive prices. Just wondering if it's a location thing? (FWIW, I'm in a smaller city, pop. 15k.)


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jesrox* 
I have managed to not shop at wal-mart for almost 2 years now...we get most of our groceries at Publix, get a lot of dry goods and food at Costco, get organic food for the baby at Whole Foods and get everything else at Target. It does make our Saturday shopping expeditions a bit long...but it is worth it to me to not support Wal-Mart!!!

Publix has a lot of organic food now, and target carries a ton of Method non-toxic cleaning products...I love being Wal-Mart FREE!!!!

We are not rolling in the dough- pretty solidly middle class(I'm a social worker, fiance works for aluminum company).

For people who shop at Target, I want to know, _where does all of their made in China stuff come from?_ I've shopped at Target before, and I prefer them, but we don't have them here, and since they have merchandise that is MIC, _are they really any better?_ What do we know about the practices of their manufacturers?

It seems to me that if there are questions about the manufacturer's treatment of their workers for Walmart's MIC junk, we would have the same concerns for Target's and the $1 Store's MIC junk, wouldn't we? And for Hobby Lobby, and Michael's and many other places who take advantage of cheap Chinese manufacturing to make big profits.

I'm not saying Walmart is fabulous, but I always wonder why people think it's so much better to shop at other places that also use cheap overseas labor. If it's all MIC, cheap plastic crap is cheap plastic crap no matter where you buy it.


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## Arduinna

It's not just about MIC, that is only a part of the evil of Walmart. Their business practices, the class action lawsuit they lost that was brought for discrimination against their female employees, their operation to put locally run stores out of business ect.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Arduinna* 
It's not just about MIC, that is only a part of the evil of Walmart. Their business practices, the class action lawsuit they lost that was brought for discrimination against their female employees, their operation to put locally run stores out of business ect.

I know that. But MIC is one of the evils quoted, and since MIC is in all the other stores, it seems like a reason to avoid them as well. They are all profiting from the same labor pool.


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## TinyBabyBean

We have 6 children, DH was making $700 a week but was layed off since May 2007. I used to think I had to shop there. I totally didn't get the boycott Wal-Mart deal. Then I saw a documentary on good ole cable. I don't even remember the name of the film, but I still remember the faces of the women.

Since my DH has been layed off with my former mindset I would think I needed Wal-Mart more than ever. But, I discovered I really didn't. I know this may sound cliche but I have seen my life blessed since I stopped shopping there.

Also, http://www.storyofstuff.com is great to help us realize it even quicker.

I think some people are just unaware. And it really comes down to buying new stuff anywhere. Anything that can be bought used should be. And really, everything can be bought used except food.


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## TinyBabyBean

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 
It's funny, I hear that same argument from people who shop at Wal-Mart about how they are too poor to shop anywhere else. Then, the same people buy all sorts of crap they never needed because it was cheap. They probably end up spending more money than if they had just gone to the regular grocery store and bought what was on their shopping list.

I stopped shopping at Wal-Mart... let's see, about 7 years ago. I noticed pretty quickly that I spent _alot_ less money and was much happier not thinking that I always had to buy stuff. I also got rid of my tv about the same time so that helped too.

Yes, that was me too. We are down to one tv now. We used to have one in every bedroom and living room. yikes i know! It is important to inform without judging because looking back on myself I was recycling, breastfeeding, cloth diapering, etc. And thought I was doing my part. I just didn't realize how much voting power my dollars had each time I shopped or didn't shop there.

Seriously, if we have six kids, DH is unemployed, and we don't shop there, then no one really has an excuse. But, in their mind they may so being kind is helpful to bring light to an issue.


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## Arduinna

My guess is the documentary was The High Cost of Low Price.


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## mrspineau

Wow. I feel like I have been living in a bubble! I didn't know any of this about WalMart. Now, in my town, there is really no where else to buy a lot of things - like baby stuff! The only places that we have are WalMart, Zellers, (which now I am wondering, is that the same thing really?) and Sears. Sears is where I like to go mainly because I find the quality better than walmart. But there are some things that they don't have that WalMart has! As far as food goes, the WalMart here doesn't carry much food and I have never bought food there, I go to the grocery store, like Sobeys, or Superstore. We don't have a target, we don't have a Bay, Eatons, or even many specialty stores. And it's an island, so going away to buy things is a major hassle. Now, that being said, I think that for the most part I could avoid WalMart, except when it comes to like, buying toys, or even things like Christmas decorations, or a lot of baby things. The Sears that we have is quite small. We only have two thrift stores, both of which sell mostly junk. (other than the clothes). SO anyhow it is interesting information to learn of but some people really don't have anywhere else to go for some things.


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## honeybunch2k8

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeca* 
Ok I get the thrift store thing for clothes and used goods but you lost me at the rest. *What about places where farmers markets aren't open year round? We only have a farmers market two months out of the year so what about the other twelve months?* And most small businesses have higher prices than megastores like walmart so how is that going to save them money? If your going to offer alternatives because people are using the "poor excuse" they need to at least be workable. I'm glad we have the commissary to shop at otherwise I can see shopping walmart for their prices.

THANK YOU!

Some people don't have those luxuries I'm lucky to have access to a military commissary, but not everyone has that. Where I live, it's rare to find a farmer's market open, but when it's open I do shop there. There are people who sell a few foods on their own, but those are few and far between (but wal marts are easy to find). Where I live it's mostly corporations with few exceptions-Wal-Mart and Winn Dixie-fighting to sell foods. There is Piggly Wiggly as well, but it is amazingly low quality-spoiled meats and all.

I've cut down my Wal-Mart shopping drastically. 95% of their foods are far below my standard anyway. I've been growing a few things myself and ordering online. Ordering only can be a tad pricey esp. if you are a college student like me.

My town only recently acquired a health food store, but they tend to be a lil pricey (although I will pay for it). Also, people don't understand why to eat organic, why to avoid high fructose corn syrup which is in many things in Wal-Mart, yadda yadda, and thus, they may not see the point in paying a little more for food. In fact, people have chastised me for spending too much money at local businesses and encouraged me to just shop at Wal-Mart.


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## malibusunny

I stopped shopping at Walmart when the one in our town closed and built a new SuperWalmart, abandoning the old building and buying out historic buildings to create their monstrosity, which of course did not use local materials or local builders.

But... I must admit I still shop at Sam's Club. I'd love to have some other warehouse store to frequent (costco would be fabulous) but the only thing we have is Sam's Club. I'm in charge of purchasing all the food for our school, and that's where we get it.

At least, since I'm the one shopping, I don't buy anything Nestle.


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## wanderinggypsy

I find the OP's tough stance on WalMart to be delightfully refreshing. Around here, everybody gripes about how they 'have to' shop at W and it's just not true. I imagine there are other places where WalMart has hurt the local economy even more and it's harder still to find alternatives, and I feel terrible for people in those communities. I would move. Anyways, in the case of WalMart, social responsibility means grassroots organizing. Co-ops, community garden projects, and other such ventures may be essential in pushing back the big W.

My loathing for those places is borderline unhealthy - just the electric glow of their parking lot at night gives me the heebie-jeebies.


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## KarenEMT

You mamas will appreciate this:
http://www.big-box.com/

(I E-mailed it to one mainstream friend who took quite a long time to realize the true meaning








)


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## medaroge

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KarenEMT* 
You mamas will appreciate this:
http://www.big-box.com/

(I E-mailed it to one mainstream friend who took quite a long time to realize the true meaning







)

lol, great site.


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## ILoveMyBabyBird

i haven't gone completely anti'walmart, and we do have a sam's club membership, (that we plan to cancel this year), but I am trying to avoid it becasue i hate going there cause everytime I checkout my total always seems so high. i even sit down and check the math to makesure that they are not gipping me. I find I prefer to shop elsewhere for groceries/gifts, etc. And the prices I find tend to be less than what i would pay at wal'mart.


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## PenelopeJune

My husband works for Walmart because it's the best paying job in our area. However, I HATE Walmart. We shop elsewhere as much as possible. We shop at our tiny little local grocery store for as much as we can, and go to the bigger more expensive store for everything else. However, we don't have a thrift store in our town. We don't have Target, Kohls, thrift shop, farmer's market, or wherever it is most other people shop. So if we want something, we generally either have to drive an hour, or shop at Walmart.

We support our local businesses as much as possible. I order online as much as I can afford. Even if I make stuff, I usually have to buy my stuff at Walmart. So it truly, truly is impossible to avoid in some places.

The good news is, if you care about their employees, the benefits got better this year. Our insurance is soooo much better than it had been in the past.


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## ashtree

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 
It's funny, I hear that same argument from people who shop at Wal-Mart about how they are too poor to shop anywhere else. Then, the same people buy all sorts of crap they never needed because it was cheap. They probably end up spending more money than if they had just gone to the regular grocery store and bought what was on their shopping list.

I stopped shopping at Wal-Mart... let's see, about 7 years ago. I noticed pretty quickly that I spent _alot_ less money and was much happier not thinking that I always had to buy stuff. I also got rid of my tv about the same time so that helped too.

WOOT! I've been happily Wal-Mart free for 5 years now and TV free for 12!


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## acannon

We don't shop at Wal-Mart as often for food anymore, because it's harder to get to, but it's so tempting to buy baby stuff there, especially clothes. I've looked online for baby clothes and they're all pretty expensive, especially for something that DS's only going to wear for a few months. It's so tempting to pick up a four pack of onesies for $10 than to get an individual onesie, organic or not, on the internet for about 8 or 10 dollars. I know, the quality isn't nearly as good and I'd be supporting WAHMs, but it seems so much easier to go the other route. What I should really do is look around for a consignment store. A PP mentioned baby stuff, too; is there anywhere else to get cheap but good-quality baby clothes?


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## Montesmommy

Thanks for that link, I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but Wal Mart's high demand for organic dairy has created a situation where organic companies are having to lower their standards to supply them and Wal Mart is lobbying to lower the standards for production of organic foods so they can sell people what they want at lower prices!


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## malibusunny

Okay, someone fill me in on the big box thing? When I searched we don't have one in our town which may be why I'm confused. At first I thought ti was sam's club but the description was nothing like sam's club, so I amm confused now.


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## User101

Quote:


Originally Posted by *malibusunny* 
Okay, someone fill me in on the big box thing? When I searched we don't have one in our town which may be why I'm confused. At first I thought ti was sam's club but the description was nothing like sam's club, so I amm confused now.

I'm pretty sure it's meant to be a spoof on Walmart; there aren't really stores named Big Box.


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## jeca

Quote:


Originally Posted by *malibusunny* 
Okay, someone fill me in on the big box thing? When I searched we don't have one in our town which may be why I'm confused. At first I thought ti was sam's club but the description was nothing like sam's club, so I amm confused now.

It's only a general term used for mega-stores like walmart.


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## malibusunny

No, I was clear it's not actually called "big box" but it says "bigger than home depot, meaner than walmart" and so I thought it was refering to a specific store. But if it's just a goof, that's fine. I think it's kind of weak, though, because it takes the focus off the evil that is by joking about the evil that could be.


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## malibusunny

This is weird-- it says page two of three but my post showed up on this page. There's no page three. hmm.


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## malibusunny

Well, now there is, because my post created it. just to make me look extra smart.


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## TheTruth

Never triple post again. Never a need for it.


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## Silvercrest79

In light of what Walmart is doing to that former employee.... I will no longer be shopping there. We are going to have to make sacrifices but I was so upset by their decision to take that woman's money that I am willing to sacrifice for her cause.


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## hippiemommaof4

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gemini05* 







:

I have an honest question, and I don't mean it to offend anyone! Is there nowhere else to buy groceries? Where I live, there are 5 grocery stores other than Wal-Mart (all within a close distance to one another) to choose from. A couple of them are "higher-end", but the other 3 have very competitive prices. Just wondering if it's a location thing? (FWIW, I'm in a smaller city, pop. 15k.)


that really isnt that small imo...my dh is originally from a town where the nearest walmart was 45 min away, they had a gas station only pretty much. They also had a lot of very low income people who had the choice to work at a mill or pretty much nowhere! when they built a walmart up the street people had jobs and closer access to food and necessities. I cant stand the way walmart runs things but I see minimal good that they can do for SOME places too. From what I have heard the founder would have never of wanted things to be this way with his company, and thats sad. I dont care for Walmart but its just a fact that even if most people dont shop there, others will continue to anyway.


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## llamalluv

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrspineau* 
Wow. I feel like I have been living in a bubble! I didn't know any of this about WalMart. Now, in my town, there is really no where else to buy a lot of things - like baby stuff! The only places that we have are WalMart, Zellers, (which now I am wondering, is that the same thing really?) and Sears. Sears is where I like to go mainly because I find the quality better than walmart. But there are some things that they don't have that WalMart has!

Don't you have thrift stores and yard sales in your area and internet access to shop online?

I was reading this thread last night, and read the story about that poor family, and told my husband, "We are not shopping at WalMart any more."

We have two gift cards (one from the wedding one from a birthday) and I'm not really sure I want to spend them, even though WalMart already HAS the money...


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## SophieAnn

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrspineau* 
Wow. I feel like I have been living in a bubble! I didn't know any of this about WalMart. Now, in my town, there is really no where else to buy a lot of things - like baby stuff! The only places that we have are WalMart, Zellers, (which now I am wondering, is that the same thing really?) and Sears. Sears is where I like to go mainly because I find the quality better than walmart. But there are some things that they don't have that WalMart has! As far as food goes, the WalMart here doesn't carry much food and I have never bought food there, I go to the grocery store, like Sobeys, or Superstore. We don't have a target, we don't have a Bay, Eatons, or even many specialty stores. And it's an island, so going away to buy things is a major hassle. Now, that being said, I think that for the most part I could avoid WalMart, except when it comes to like, buying toys, or even things like Christmas decorations, or a lot of baby things. The Sears that we have is quite small. We only have two thrift stores, both of which sell mostly junk. (other than the clothes). SO anyhow it is interesting information to learn of but some people really don't have anywhere else to go for some things.

Do you live in PEI by any chance?









Even if your Sears is small, you can order items from the Sears catalog and they ship your order to the store for free. For some departments, the catalog selection is significantly better than the in-store selection (especially if it's a small store).

I think that Zellers is good. I do think they treat their employees well (if anyone knows differently please speak up!) and are more corporately responsible. Zellers is part of the HBC (Hudson Bay Company) group - The Bay, Home Outfitters and Zellers, so they have that Canadian History bit too.

We have a Wal-mart way up in the North-end that our community tried to fight for years, but lost that fight fairly recently. We pretty much never shop there - only once a year for some of our Christmas gifts (for kids' stuff).

There's a lot I didn't know about Walmart that I learned from this discussion - thank you! Our family will be Walmart free in the future for certain! There are plenty of local, small shops downtown to choose from for kids' gifts.


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## mattoxs-mom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *delfuego* 
It's funny, I hear that same argument from people who shop at Wal-Mart about how they are too poor to shop anywhere else. Then, the same people buy all sorts of crap they never needed because it was cheap. They probably end up spending more money than if they had just gone to the regular grocery store and bought what was on their shopping list.

I stopped shopping at Wal-Mart... let's see, about 7 years ago. I noticed pretty quickly that I spent _alot_ less money and was much happier not thinking that I always had to buy stuff. I also got rid of my tv about the same time so that helped too.

Excellent point


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## sunnymw

Quote:


Originally Posted by *acannon* 
We don't shop at Wal-Mart as often for food anymore, because it's harder to get to, but it's so tempting to buy baby stuff there, especially clothes. I've looked online for baby clothes and they're all pretty expensive, especially for something that DS's only going to wear for a few months. It's so tempting to pick up a four pack of onesies for $10 than to get an individual onesie, organic or not, on the internet for about 8 or 10 dollars. I know, the quality isn't nearly as good and I'd be supporting WAHMs, but it seems so much easier to go the other route. What I should really do is look around for a consignment store. A PP mentioned baby stuff, too; is there anywhere else to get cheap but good-quality baby clothes?


nak...
craigslist.... ebay... swap forums here or other nfl sites







cheaper than wm even! lotsa new stuff too


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## robertandenith

I hate walmart







When you buy what you 'need' you actually safe hundreds of dollars. Over consumption is not so good for the environment. Cheap food also means, unhealthy food unfortunally


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## kriket

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maymorales* 

I'm wondering if McDonald's is lesser of two evils?

Hell.. No...

I worked an McD's for 6 years, from _14_ to 20 I was an assistant manager when I left, I "_loved_" my job then when I left, I realized what it was really like to love a job. The pay sucks, they made me work off the clock soooo much, broke so many child labour laws, generally fu#*ed anyone they could, the elderly, minoritys, even white boys got boned. and forget it if you got pregnant, you were just taken off the schedule without more then a word! and they keep all hourly employees technically classified as "part-time" so they can avoid benefits as simple as FMLA, 401k or vacations.. Franchises can be better, (which all the mcd's in wal-marts are loooong story) but sometimes they can be worse... I could go on for days about why I hate that place. I fell through a rickty old roof because I had to sweep off water that was leaking into the store, cut up my leg, and couldn't get _the day off_ let alone medical bills.







: I'm done.. I swear.

OH! i'm not done!! the ads on the bottom of this page are from walmart in canada!! GD it!! everywhere I look... and the being too poor to shop anywhere other then walmart, thats such a crock. It's more like to lazy to shop anywhere other then walmart.. ok this time I really am done.


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## S.Raine-Drop

Wow.. I personally LOVE Wal-Mart. It's a miracle 'round these parts. Everybody travels up to where the malls and all the big stores are to hit up Wal-Mart. I bought all my baby's things from there, I practically grew up in that place! I'm not going to boycott a store because of how they treat their employees or where they get their products. Call me inhumane but I like their prices and I like their stuff. And for me, going there is a *fun* experience, I look forward to it! And I've actually seen a LOT of disabled employees as well as a plethera of women and people of all colours/sizes/shapes..

Anyway.. I







Wally World.

ETS: I finished reading through the rest of the thread, sometimes I jump the gun with my posts. Anyway, I haven't seen ONE "pro" Wal-Mart post, so.. I hope I don't get a hit out on me or something... (lol..? =\)


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## Kleine Hexe

It's been two years since I stopped shopping at Walmart. It has destroyed so many local stores in my town.







If I can't find it somewhere else then I do without. I refuse absolutely refuse to go to Walmart. DH gets an earful if I find out he snuck in there.

BabyBlanket, I suggest lots of research. It may be nice to live in ignorance of certain issues but all it does is serve to continue the crap that Walmart and the like get away with. People like to stick their head in the sand and pretend all is ok. In my opinion living that way is selfish.


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## diamond lil

I have been Walmart-free since September of 2007. I am fairly proud of my resolve. Even with a baby on the way, people have asked me how can I afford *not* to shop there. My answer is pretty simple: we can still find plenty of things we need locally and I love Craig's List! We frequent resale shops and head to the Maul if there is something we can't find locally or gently used.

I've become a HUGE buyer of gently used goods since I became a member of this board. I know aaaaallllll the good places to go.









Although I hate Walmart, I cannot fault many people in the US who are basically forced to go there to shop because the Walmart has driven all other commerce in the community out of business. This is especially true for rural areas. I'm lucky to live in an area where this has thankfully not happened.

I love anti-Walmart threads!


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## t-elaine

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gemini05* 







:

I have an honest question, and I don't mean it to offend anyone! Is there nowhere else to buy groceries? Where I live, there are 5 grocery stores other than Wal-Mart (all within a close distance to one another) to choose from. A couple of them are "higher-end", but the other 3 have very competitive prices. Just wondering if it's a location thing? (FWIW, I'm in a smaller city, pop. 15k.)

Haven't had time to read the whole thread, but wanted to share something from our experiences. We had been boycotting "stuff-mart" for almost 2 years when we moved down to rural north AL 3 1/2 years ago. Once we got down here we learned right away that we were a long way from EVERYTHING!!! There is a LITTLE Piggly Wiggly about 10mi from us and another small store 10mi in another direction. Both of these stores have a very small selection and do not carry much of what we eat. A bigger city is about 30min away. That is where we drove to get much of what we needed. They have a lot of options for shopping.

We actually quickly found ourselves pretty deep in debt due to a drop in income and increase in expenses - especially groceries (in IL we shopped at Aldi which is an AWESOME store with even more awesome prices!!!). About 6 months after we moved a Super WM was built 10mi away from us. In our extrememly depressed financial state and with the struggles of being HUGE and PG and with 2 little ones with me too, I found myself shopping there again. For us it really was a distance thing, as well as a cost thing.

We now have an Aldi in the city (BIG savings on our grocery bill now!!!) and have levelled off our finances to afford going to town once or twice a week. We also have a Costco membership now but have to drive almost an hour to go there - but at least it is in the same town as our co-op pickups (another great savings for us by buying lots in bulk) YAY!!!! No more "stuff-mart"!!!

It was very hard for me to set foot in WM and give them our money, but I now understand that sometimes there really ISN'T much of a choice.


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## Hippie Mama in MI

I worked at Wal Mart for five years. I met my husband there; many of our friends also work there. In our town, there are very few employment opportunities that don't involve hazardous chemicals or possibly being crushed by manufacturing equipment. If you don't want to work at one of the big (dangerous) plants, you get to choose between Wal Mart and Little Ceasars Pizza.

I don't think Wal Mart is doing such a hot job of "thinking globally". I think a lot of what they do is deplorable. But I shop there for almost everything, because when I spend money there it helps keep my husband's job secure, and our friends' jobs.

It's a love/hate relationship. I hate the way the entire store is designed to make you spend more and more money, but I love their employee discount and low prices. In fact, our household could not function without WalMart's low prices. We can barely afford to buy food _there_; if I had to go to the much-more-expensive "other" grocery stores in our area, we would literally either have to feed our child Ramen noodles or go get WIC and food stamps. Yet, I know that Wal Mart puts local markets out of business, ultimately harming the local economy.

No matter how much Wal Mart sucks, I still have to feed my kid something more than Ramen noodles and canned corn.

The good news is, we are growing some of our own food this year. And our little town will be hosting a farmers market for at least part of this summer and fall. We get produce from friends and neighbors too, when they have it. We do a "garden exhange"!

I respect those of you who are boycotting Wal Mart. I hope it inspires the company to change their wicked ways. Peace to all.


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## laoxinat

IMNSHO, Walmart is pretty much responsible for the decline of Western civilization...or at least the American Dream. I do understancd some rural folks needing to shop there, a few people really don't have much choice. But in light of recent events in Tibet and the horrible, incestuous relationship WM has w/the Chinese government, I have finally decided I just cannot shop there ever. I actually boycotted a while after seeing the documentary (The High Cost of Low Prices), but then we lost the building where our business was and our income dropped precipitously. It hasn't gone back up, but I just can't stand to support them anymore. One thing I have noticed is that produce, which makes up a very big part of our shopping anyway, is definitely cheaper at Safeway, and MUCH better quality. A Fry's opened up closer to us in any case, so b/t the gas saved and the much better atmosphere, I am happily boycotting again







It is an insidious thing they have done - moved many manufacturing operations to China - which means there is much less awareness of their environmental impact. Many middle income jobs are gone. Way too much of our economy is people sitting behind computers rather than actually producing things or services of value. I am looking forward to a radical upward shift in my own personal economic karma soon


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## Sage_SS

OK, I'll admit to being ignorant on the global issues of Walmart, but I want to comment on the one in my city. MOST of the workers are women, there are greeters and stockers who are disabled and elderly. I know a few people who work there and they LOVE it. They receive steady pay increases, their benefits are amazing and their employers are fair.


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## momsadvice




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## t-elaine

In my previous post I never mentioned that I, too, worked at a Wal-mart about 10 years ago now. It was a SuperWM and I got hired in right as it was being built. My personal experiences were not ALL bad, yet there were WAY too many negatives, mostly involving management that did not truly care about employee concerns enough. I won't get into everything in detail, but all in all, my WM days were pretty miserable. Within the 10 months that I worked there I worked in 5 different departments as well as in setting up the new store. There was only ONE manager that I felt respected by 100% and when he would try to help my situation, other managers knocked it down. I am so grateful that I became PG with my oldest child and decided not to EVER go back to work. Sadly it took me a little while longer to finally boycott.


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## t-elaine

Also - I know I saw where someone had mentioned the disabled woman that WM was suing. Not that it changes MY mind at all about WM - but they are not taking the money and are stoppinga ll litlgation. The saddest part is taht had it not gotten the media exposure that it did, they probably would not have changed anything about what they were doing. The husband had already tried to get WM to stop and they did not. but OOOOHHH make them "look" bad (as if they didn't already) and THEN they will stop what they are doing and act all "oh, we didn't realize, thanks for helping us see the error of our ways!" If they REALLY wanted to make themselves look better in this instance they should be offering to give a little piece of the MILLIONS they have to guarantee she has all the future care she needs. But even THAT wouldn't change my minds about shopping there!


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## karliyanchus

walmart free since oct 2004, here. it can be tricky but there's NOTHING that would make me shop there ever again. there would be NO excuse, to me it's immoral. it's not an option, however, there is no where else to buy kids clothes around here. i am over an hour from any store except a small general store and gas station. but i am finding out there are alternatives. on line shopping is one, although this is extra tough finding canadian on line sources for stuff. i watch the clearance items at pleasemum.ca, and sears outlet. as for cleaning supplies, i have switched to just vinegar and baking soda, no need for anything else. i buy laundry soap and dish soap and shampoo when i see it on sale at the grocery store or health food store. clothes for me are invariably from thrift stores, and even though the local ones kinda suck, 2 or 3 times a year i find myself in a larger centre and i can have a good root through a value village or something. dh gets clothes at marks work warehouse.

it does take a bit more planning ahead to avoid mallwart, for example i know the girls' rubber boots are getting snug, and i was hoping the warehouse club had boots but they didn't have the right sizes. so next time i am in "town" i'll try canadian tire. NOTHING would ever make me step foot in a walmart again. even though it's convenient and cheap. (then again buying extra plastic crap you don't need doesn't turn out to be cheap in the long run).

i don't know if sears or zellers etc is any better, but as far as i'm concerned, walmart is the biggest, and therefore it is the one i will attempt to hurt by withholding my money. if they changed their practices, i am certain other companies could follow.

i'm sure this has been shared already, but this explains why i boycott.

http://walmartwatch.com/issues/supplier_relationships/


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## FondestBianca

For some perspective, there are many, many, many companies that are offenders and many that are worse than WalMart. If anyone who insisted all who shop at WalMart are doing a horrible disservice and full of crap about their reasoning you should also think about boycotting many grocery stores, almost all department stores, fast food chains, chain resturants, car manufactoring companies, companies that use factories in and out of the US that contribute to pollution or poor work environment for employees (that kills just abotu every store at every mall, all department stores, most online companies, book publishers, toy makers, companies that produce household goods, companies that use animal products where animals are raised in poor conditions or harvested long before old age, shoe companies, clothing companies, furniture companies and basically anything where any of it's components are not proven to be made locally where you can actually observe the conditions of product and workers. We better stop eating meat, cheese, milk, eggs, etc from corporate farms as well as fruits and veggies from outside our local area (that you haven't investigated yourself in person), stop wearing any leather and animal product goods that we didn't make ourselves from non captive or elderly captive animals, stop going out to eat. Leave our place of work because it probably recently has descriminated on some level against someone or employs someone who is racist or sexist (or is tied to another company that has), quit going to colleges that gives special schlorships only if you are of a certain race, stay away from doctors because they use medicines that have been tested on animals, are unnatural, strip other countries of resources, etc... Oh, and don't use medicine at all. They are far too high priced (overpriced) and thus descriminate against the poor and third world countried that need them. Don't let your kids go to school or in public in general because they will probably be descriminated at some point or another. Deny all politicians, world leaders, corporate and large business owners, real estate agents who sell to clients that don't have the best interest of the land in mind, medical insurance companies, DSHS, government institutions, court systems, car owners, recreational vechile owners, farms that own large heards of cattle (can we say, "ozone depleation"). People who buy paper towels, tupperware, plastic or paper cups or plates, packaged food or other packaged items, exotic wood furniture or flooring, etc, etc, etc. ... so that means we should boycot basically everything outside (and inside it seems) of our homes. Oh yes, and we can't forget to bash people who give to charity that isn't "the right charity"... and people who don't fight for your cause as much as you do... may they rot in hell....

Good luck with that.

Ok, ok, so I hope you can see I'm being sarcastic with all that.

It's great to have an issue, a passion, something to fight for or about. It's admirable for people to be looking out for others... it really is. However, it does no good to put down those who don't exactly follow in your ways though. We can't bend people with fear, threat, or rudeness. If people boycot for the wrong reasons it will not work out. If people don't have clear direction, moral, intent and composure while doing so, to back it up no one will listen. Silent protest isn't exactly the way either but, personally your (the post author) projection of valid views has done nothing but make me rethink what you have to say and want to go another direction. And by your own standards you too, are contributing to the problem you've outlined. It goes far beyond WalMart. Far beyond what you have described. And the way in which you choose to describe it diminishes the cause and draws people away from finding a solution.

Lets be productive in our proactive roles. Negitivity only breeds the very same. We're all intellignet and working together seems to be a good start!

Lets get along... even with people we think are being offenders (by shopping at WalMart or whatever our nobel cause may be).


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## bigeyes

Thank you. I've been saying this for years, but you were much more eloquent.


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## Magali




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## mama_at_home

Didn't Walmart originally start out with all products made in the USA? Or am I confusing them with something else?


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## BedHead

I have set foot in walmart maybe 5 times, and had an excuse for only one of them. Dd needed certain shoes for a riding class and nowhere else was open Sunday night late. She didn't tell me till 10 pm Sunday and needed them first thing Monday. I really can't stand walmart, and when I was a single mom they didn't exist here and I got by just fine. I can't stand the place.


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## Mom_of_2

It is so refreshing to see others that share the same view! Although reportedly, they treat their employees better, I also avoid Starbucks. I wish I could avoid every corporation. One thing I do is *never* use the non-employee scan express check out. This may be fast and convenient , but this also reduces jobs and cuts hours of those employed.


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## octobermoon

This Walmart thing is still a HUGE issue. A couple of days ago on Seventh Generation's site there was an article about Walmart and the problems it causes on the individual level. There is also a great discussion that follows. And on Frontline there is another very informative article about the global implications of Walmart and comments about that. i am in Chicago and this city doesn't allow any more Walmarts in. I think there are two or something like that. We don't shop there but we do shop at Target which isn't quite as bad but only marginally so. I have friends and family who shop at Walmart because it is cheap. I have heard that some feel Walmart is a "godsend" since they can get really cheap stuff and still have money left over for food. While I sympathize with the plight of those who feel they must shop there, deep in my heart i feel that Walmart and their practices are something we should be concerned about. When it comes to our futures and children's futures, we really DO have a HUGE PROBLEM on our hands. I don't pretend to know the answers or think that just not shopping there will solve these issues. HOWEVER, I do think that we all need to be informed and educate ourselves about this for our future and kids sake (if you are reading this and interested in activism -this means you). I hope we can have a discussion about more than the reasons we either do or don't shop there. We definitely MUST DO SOMETHING!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ets/shots.html
http://www.seventhgeneration.com/lea...ns-our-fathers


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## BrokeMom

I do buy a select few things at Walmart. My family lives on a tighter budget than anyone I know. I go to WM every few weeks and buy 5 grocery items that I can not get anywhere near the same price at the other stores. I don't ever buy extras...there isn't the money for that. I have found out that I can't take my dh into WM if we even have a few extra dollars because he will surely find something to spend them on! Husbands...







Occasionally I have used WM for last-minute/urgently needed items, like medicine... But I have always had this thought in the back of my head that most of their non-grocery items are cheap junk and wouldn't last long enough to make up for the money saved. I know many people who buy a lot at WM but are always complaining when it breaks or doesn't last...


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## happyhats

My husband works as walmart, but we don't shop there. But I feel bad that I'm supporting walmart in some way by my husband working there. And I suppose if I give the excuse that we were in the position of desperately needing the money to live (which we were, we're living paycheck to paycheck and hubby got laid off when I found out I was pregnant), it's not much better than anyone saying they shop there out of necessity. I enjoy the experience of shopping elsewhere. And while I can't say I only shop at places that don't ever import, etc, I try to shop at places that align as much with my values as possible. I shop secondhand as a priority. After that I shop at independant places, followed by big box retailers with a good reputation for the treatment of their employees. I very much believe that you vote with your money, and hopefully very soon my money won't be coming from a place I don't support either.


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## CompostMom

I simply must buy some of our items there b/c if not there we would not be buying them. I normally buy as much as possible on sale elsewhere. I also feel strongly and wish I didn't have to shop there. I hate it. It's always overcrowed and dirty. They don't treat their employess fairly etc etc. But I have to look at the benefit to my family. If we save $ = we have more or can do more as a family. That is my priority first & foremost. The rest comes second, although I care, I feel I have more of a responsibility to my family.


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## happyhats

I understand what you're saying, compost mama, even though we don't do the same things exactly. I know I'm compromising by being on WIC, as it doesn't provide the healthiest fare for me and my family. I often ask myself if I "need" it or it's just easier for me. But I've come to the decision that I do really "need" it because we're barely making ends meet as it is, and we're really trying for my husband to work less hours or hopefully quit his job (he has a ton of medical internships due, and we're expecting the first baby). So yeah, hubby getting his schooling completed in a good manner, and him being able to be here for the baby is important enough to compromise here and there (I buy the healthiest alternatives and buy healthy foods elsewhere to round out the rest).


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## Benji'sMom

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KarenEMT* 
Thank you for posting this. I boycott Wal-Mart and have for some time.

They wanted to put a store next to my town in a completely inappropriate location and we formed a citizen's group and beat them, but it took a long time and lots of $$$.

This reminded me, the other day archiologists found the site of George Washington's childhood home (it's just the walls of the cellar left so it had been underground and they didn't know the exact location till now). Anyway, the reporter was saying that WM had planned to build a WM store on that exact spot in 1994, but thank God, they did not build there! They would have just bulldozed it & we never would have known that there was a giant WM on top of an historical site like that. And the surroundings were so nice and green and natural, I was grossed out at the thought of there being a WM there. Yuck.


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## ThisLove

Ooooohhhhhhh how I wish we could be Wal-Mart free.

Living in a small town with two grocery stores, sharing a car with the husband (we live in a rural area, we don't have public transportation nor can I bike/walk anywhere, other than the gas station), and making ends meet with the husband's crappy UPS salary doesn't give us a lot of choice. I utilize the farmer's market on the weekends (it's open for 3 hours at a time on Saturdays) and the other grocery store's prices are two to three times as much as WM's. With the prices on EVERYTHING going up, we've gone from spending $30-$40 on groceries a week to spending $65-$75 a week for _exact same thing_.

We're very frugal and unfortunately, Wal-Mart's our only choice. We have no small, private groceries, delis, etc. The farmers around here grow crops for livestock, there aren't any you-picks, we have one clothing store (which is loads more expensive), and like, 60 tack & feed shops for horses and other livestock. Well, maybe not that many, but there are two in my town - which is less than a mile long - if that tells you anything.

Some day, we will be Wal-Mart free.


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## mamaofthree

i think there are many ways to avoid the need for all of those stores... and pretty much all the things FondestBianca said... grow some of your own food, shop thrift stores, walk or ride the bus, eat local, go to local resturants, spend a day at the park instead of the mall, get rid of your TV, play cards, homeschool, homebirth, see a naturopath, use homeopathy, dumpster dive, go to yard sales, work for trade, etc.
NO you can not stop all interaction with the evils of the world, and i know that the list above is next to impossible for some but you do what you can and you inform people. Ignorance is NOT bliss. And on top of that hearing the facts and then not giving a hoot is just plain messed up. it is. we are ONE people, one planet and acting as if you live in some sort of bubble and do whatever you want to whom ever you want with whatever you want is wrong. it is. everyone needs to do what they can to make life better not just for themselves, but for EVERYONE. if that means you go with out a new crib and have to co-sleep or you get hand me downs... why does everyone need gifts at the holidays? why not offer your time, or some talent you have. if everyone stopped wanting so much [email protected] we wouldn't be in this big mess to begin with. everyone wants NEW and MORE and to GET GET GET.
I know I know... food, you gotta eat. What about joining a CSA or Starting one, or finding a co-op that you can buy in bulk, so even if you have to drive far you can stock up. What about you-picks, finding a local farmer and buying directly from them. if there is a framers market only 2 months out of the year SHOP AT It those two months. maybe if more people went they would keep it going longer.
this old saying from the depression:
Use it up
wear it out
make it do
or do without.
And watch the Story of Stuff. and really think about it. what are we leaving our kids? what about the REAL cost of stuff? do you need all that? and how about instead of spending $100.00 for 20 junk toys.. how about spending that money and buying one really nice toy. the less kids have the more that stuff means to them the better they treat it the longer it lasts. the more "stuff" they have the less it all means.
my 2 cents LOL
h


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## llamalluv

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThisLove* 
Ooooohhhhhhh how I wish we could be Wal-Mart free.

Living in a small town with two grocery stores, sharing a car with the husband (we live in a rural area, we don't have public transportation nor can I bike/walk anywhere, other than the gas station), and making ends meet with the husband's crappy UPS salary doesn't give us a lot of choice. I utilize the farmer's market on the weekends (it's open for 3 hours at a time on Saturdays) and the other grocery store's prices are two to three times as much as WM's. With the prices on EVERYTHING going up, we've gone from spending $30-$40 on groceries a week to spending $65-$75 a week for _exact same thing_.

We're very frugal and unfortunately, Wal-Mart's our only choice. We have no small, private groceries, delis, etc. The farmers around here grow crops for livestock, there aren't any you-picks, we have one clothing store (which is loads more expensive), and like, 60 tack & feed shops for horses and other livestock. Well, maybe not that many, but there are two in my town - which is less than a mile long - if that tells you anything.

Some day, we will be Wal-Mart free.


Just throwing this out there.....is there any possibility that you could switch to once a month shopping and drive a little further to get to a different store? Bread and milk will both keep in the freezer (DH & I buy lots of milk when it goes $1.99/gallon and freeze it). Aside from fresh fruits and veggies (which you say you get at farmer's markets), is there anything that you NEED to buy on a weekly basis?

It may be that you have to go really far, so it might not be an option....if DH and I lived in his hometown, we would have to drive for an hour to get to a cheap non-Walmart grocery store in Champaign. (The closest city only has one over-priced supermarket)


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## llamalluv

A true story:

I was discussing, with another teacher, buying some supplies for the bible classes during the big back-to-school sales (since we use a LOT of glue sticks and the last time we ran out, I had to pay $3 EACH!). I asked her to let me know if she made up a list of needed supplies and I would keep my eye out when I was making my shopping lists and snap up some good bargains. She said that she would let me know if she saw anything the classes needed at Walmart...

I said, "Oh, I don't shop at Walmart. But if you let me know what we need, I will get it when I am out running errands."

She says, "Why don't you shop at Walmart?"

Without hesitating, I say, "Human rights violations."

Her (semi-sarcastic tone and a face): "Oh, like in China?"

Me: "No. In America."

Her: "Huh?" (shakes head)

Does it really matter WHERE the human rights violations happen, or who they happen to? She's aware they are happening "out there" but shops there anyway, even though it's not even the cheapest place to shop in our area! I don't get it.


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## Lemon Juice

I hear ya, llamalluv!
MIL is the same way. She lives in Boston....TONS of options to shop. She chooses Wal-Mart?? why b/c she "saves". Heck I'll give you the freakin' hundred bucks you "save" a year by shopping there if you'd actually stop! I don't get it. We lived in a very high COL area w/ 4 kids, one income that was very, very low and never had to shop there. Never.

Anyhow I am going to get her the High Cost of Low Prices to watch w/ us. I almost think she goes there b/c she knows our family is against it







: It really upsets our boys b/c they understand why we don't shop there and to see grandma tell them "she does't care" and whatever it makes them sad


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## mamaofthree

it can be really upsetting when someone knows the truth HAS other options and yet chooses to do it anyway.

h


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## lactivist

I haven't shopped at Walmart since I watched The High Price of Low-Cost. It really opened my eyes to how bad Walmart is to everyone around the world. There is just nothing there that is worth it.
Wendi


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## llamalluv

Weird - there is a page 5 of this thread showing, but I can't get to it, even by typing the url directly into my address bar....


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## WC_hapamama

I go to Walmart maybe twice a year, and I can honestly say I don't spend a lot of money there. The closest one is about 10 miles away, and places like Target, Costco and regular department stores and supermarkets are a lot more convenient.


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## jennyfah

Wal-Mart free for at least 10 years now, because I think it is unethical to give them business. I think what they do to small towns is very sad (and I grew up in a small town, so I know about it).

I can sympathize with the posters who say there's nowhere else to shop---and (you guessed it) that's Wal-Mart's plan. They have been known to open two Wal-Marts reasonably close together, then shut one down to force all customers to drive 45 minutes or more to the only show in town, especially after all the local stores lose all their business and have to close.

They are the largest retailer in the world, and though the yellow smiley face would have you believe otherwise, they didn't get that way by being nice.


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## creektownmama

I am still having a hard time understanding the difference between Walmart and Target, Costco, etc.???? I know it's a hot topic and I hear people say they don't shop at Walmart like it's a badge of honor, but honestly....how can you be proud of the fact that you boycott one of the offenders and not all of them? seriously


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *creektownmama* 
I am still having a hard time understanding the difference between Walmart and Target, Costco, etc.???? I know it's a hot topic and I hear people say they don't shop at Walmart like it's a badge of honor, but honestly....how can you be proud of the fact that you boycott one of the offenders and not all of them? seriously









ITA. Target is no better, and neither is any other store who imports goods from China.


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## jennyfah

Certainly all big box retailers have some egregious social behavior, but Wal-Mart is the worst. For anyone who is interested, you can check out this page for some info:

http://webhost.bridgew.edu/jhayesboh/badbusiness.html

I used to teach a business ethics class, and in the social responsibility section of textbooks Wal-Mart is always the model of "what not to do."

They have a lot of money to spend on lawyers and advertising to help their image, but they can't cover up everything that they have been known to do. If someone's got no problem with the way they treat their employees, suppliers, or communities, then that's her/his choice, but I think most of us who find out exactly what Wal-Mart is about will no longer darken their doors.

Creektownmama--I see your point. It's kind of like posting on a vegan forum that "Hey everyone, I don't eat veal!" I suppose not doing the worst of the worst deserves some kind of moral credit though?

Jen


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## ~girlsmum~

I didn't have time to read all the posts, 5 pages worth but has anyone posted that WalMart in Canada isn't any better?? I am not going to patronize a chain of stores that puts the Asian workers to slave labour to get the cheapest product to the consumer and the clothing is never stitched properly, the food of poor quality and some items are downright dangerous to ppl's health. We have been privy to some pics up here of people who buy WalMart's summer flipflops and they are so chemically enhanced that people are burning their skin from the chemicals. I've seen some disgusting pics displayed by dermatologists that are horrified by what they are treating.

We're working in Canada at spreading the word about thrift shops, backyard gardening, local produce, make at home foods etc to avoid shopping at WalMart at all costs. And despite all of our efforts those aisles are still jam packed and one risks life and limb going through an aisle for a sale item.

Argh! WHY WHY did my MIL have to send my twins a WalMart gift card, Ugh! So I had! to go and get my girls some gifts from there.


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## jeca

Quote:


Originally Posted by *creektownmama* 
I am still having a hard time understanding the difference between Walmart and Target, Costco, etc.???? I know it's a hot topic and I hear people say they don't shop at Walmart like it's a badge of honor, but honestly....how can you be proud of the fact that you boycott one of the offenders and not all of them? seriously









From what I have always understood it isn't just that Walmart has products MIC it's rather their practice of going in and pushing out every competition that they may have in town forces other shops and workers to close and be out of business. I think that is the major practice that they have that is hard for a lot of people to swallow. I finally did watch the documentary "The high cost of low prices" and that was the big focal point.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeca* 
From what I have always understood it isn't just that Walmart has products MIC it's rather their practice of going in and pushing out every competition that they may have in town forces other shops and workers to close and be out of business. I think that is the major practice that they have that is hard for a lot of people to swallow. I finally did watch the documentary "The high cost of low prices" and that was the big focal point.

One of the ways they get rid of the competition is by importing cheap crap from China, and that _is_ one of the complaints I hear from people. But yes, you are correct about their practices.

Of course, I have no patience for people who boycott Walmart and still buy sweatshop clothing from other stores. That makes no sense.







If you're anti-Wal-mart for their practices in principle because they take advantage of people, then you should be anti the others for the same reasons.


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## lactivist

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
One of the ways they get rid of the competition is by importing cheap crap from China, and that _is_ one of the complaints I hear from people. But yes, you are correct about their practices.

Of course, I have no patience for people who boycott Walmart and still buy sweatshop clothing from other stores. That makes no sense.







If you're anti-Wal-mart for their practices in principle because they take advantage of people, then you should be anti the others for the same reasons.

Is there a list somewhere of companies that use sweatshop labor. I find it difficult to know. Thanks
Wendi


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lactivist* 
Is there a list somewhere of companies that use sweatshop labor. I find it difficult to know. Thanks
Wendi

http://www.sweatfree.org/hallofshame
http://nosweatapparel.com/
http://www.veganpeace.com/sweatshops...e_shopping.htm
http://www.nosweat.org.uk/


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## lactivist

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
http://www.sweatfree.org/hallofshame
http://nosweatapparel.com/
http://www.veganpeace.com/sweatshops...e_shopping.htm
http://www.nosweat.org.uk/

Excellent! Thanks so much!
Wendi


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lactivist* 
Excellent! Thanks so much!
Wendi

np.


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## octobermoon

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Of course, I have no patience for people who boycott Walmart and still buy sweatshop clothing from other stores. That makes no sense.







If you're anti-Wal-mart for their practices in principle because they take advantage of people, then you should be anti the others for the same reasons.

....you gotta start somewhere! i think it unrealistic to expect everyone to know all of these issues in depth. it takes time to undo cultural habits, like shopping at chain dept. stores. it takes education and also a willingness on the peoples part to even want something different. even those who do, most cannot change completely overnight. it is a process. it starts with compassion, i think. walmart is BIG NEWS because the practices of this company have gone way out of control. when people learn about walmart and are concerned this is good ground for more change to happen in different areas on the same level. i think we need to be patient with one another. i have found for myself this is extremely difficult and i don't think i 'm alone. and while the sweatshop issue is definitely important and an awful practice.....walmart certainly misses the moral mark in many other ways. anyway, my two cents.


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## creektownmama

I'm saying that....instead of focusing on just Walmart, maybe we should look a little deeper into the issue. Because, I'm pretty sure you could not step into a Walmart in your whole life and still be propping up big business in some other way.
And it's kinda negative to put down people for going to Walmart in general. While it's the best example of glutenous Big Box...what if everyone stopped going to Walmart and started going to Target? what do you think would happen at Target?is it a fundamentally more responsible importer, employer? I don't know.
But, I DO know that when someone gets up on a soapbox and starts telling me what I "should" do...it makes me pause and think about WHY I should and how did that person become an authority on it. I personally don't believe that boycotting Walmart makes one socially responsible. not that I agree with or even shop there.........my mom got dd a gift card for Walmart and I have had it for 6 mo., I may never use it....but I don't like being told that I shouldn't.


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## momo7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennyfah* 
Wal-Mart free for at least 10 years now, because I think it is unethical to give them business. I think what they do to small towns is very sad (and I grew up in a small town, so I know about it).

I can sympathize with the posters who say there's nowhere else to shop---and (you guessed it) that's Wal-Mart's plan. They have been known to open two Wal-Marts reasonably close together, then shut one down to force all customers to drive 45 minutes or more to the only show in town, especially after all the local stores lose all their business and have to close.

They are the largest retailer in the world, and though the yellow smiley face would have you believe otherwise, they didn't get that way by being nice.


There are three Wal-marts in Topeka, Kansas. I hate them. My husband makes me go. The last Wal-mart they built, they imminant domained the site and took land from a family that had been their family farm for about 75 years. Oh yeah, they put across the street from two other grocery stores and a k-mart. That piece of land was the last stretch of private property left on the corridor. How freaking SICK is that?! I try to go shopping without DH so he can't make me go. (It's hard not to go somewhere when you are not the person driving. )

I hate Wal-Mart.







:


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## llamalluv

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
ITA. Target is no better, and neither is any other store who imports goods from China.

Why the assumption that it's ONLY because of the import issue?

My top 10 reasons for not shopping at Wal*Mart (in no particular order):

1. They treat workers badly - (i.e. scheduling them at times that employees specifically state during the application process that they cannot work, denying breaks, making employees clock out for breaks that should be paid, etc)
2. Their health-care policy. (It is "unofficially" to let welfare/Medicaid provide health insurance for their employees.)
3. Poor quality merchandise.
4. Their ad campaigns about buying more stuff to appease spoiled children. (My policy is to give all the needs, a few of the wants, and teach kids to be happy with what they have and to share.)
5. The stores are always dirty and unorganized.
6. I have been harassed by employees when leaving their stores - I was accused of theft when I refused to show what was in my bags of paid for merchandise.*
7. Their policies on dealing with suppliers - "give it to us cheap and fast - who cares about quality or your profit margin?"
8. The complete lack of care for the environment (such as leaving pallets of pesticide out in the rain...)
9. The savings are marginal - if they are even present. The last pair of jeans I bought were $15. The last pair that I bought at Wal*Mart were $22....same brand. I regularly buy our groceries at everyday prices that Wal*Mart can only beat during a sale.
10. The store is too big, the parking lots are too big, and I get hurt trying to maneuver through both between my bad back and fibromyalgia.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llamalluv* 
Why the assumption that it's ONLY because of the import issue?


It isn't. But that is one of the most often cited reasons for not shopping there, and other stores have the same merchandise.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llamalluv* 
1. They treat workers badly - (i.e. scheduling them at times that employees specifically state during the application process that they cannot work, denying breaks, making employees clock out for breaks that should be paid, etc)

I had an acquaintance who was management for Target, treated terribly, and I've heard their employees are treated just as badly as Wal-mart employees. At Christmastime, when the bus ran late, he was denied his bonus because he was 10 minutes late for the Holiday meeting. All his hard work during the entire year went out the window because the city bus was late that day and a power tripping pencil pusher decided he should have left for work 4 hours early instead of 3 that day. It's the same place with a prettier facade. Give them some time and they'll grow to be the same monster.
http://www.alternet.org/workplace/50058/
http://www.coopamerica.org/programs/...any.cfm?id=295
according to this article, the only reason to boycott Wal-mart instead of Target is that they're bigger, not that they're _worse.
http://www.wisebread.com/is-target-r...ad-as-wal-mart
_Similar business practices, similar treatment of employees, just Wal-mart has been at it longer, so let's boycott them and shop at Target.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *llamalluv* 
2. Their health-care policy. (It is "unofficially" to let welfare/Medicaid provide health insurance for their employees.)

This article mentions that Target doesn't give their employees a much better deal than Wal-mart, but doesn't expand on that statement to give actual numbers or percentages.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...1782/index.htm
This article points out many similarities between the 2, and imo, Target seems to be worse, just smaller.
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/walm...get_better.php

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llamalluv* 
3. Poor quality merchandise.

This one kills me. Plastic crap and foreign made clothing is plastic crap and foreign made clothing, regardless of where you buy it. When you fall for marketing, you get what you deserve, and Target is the _master_ of slick marketing.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llamalluv* 
4. Their ad campaigns about buying more stuff to appease spoiled children. (My policy is to give all the needs, a few of the wants, and teach kids to be happy with what they have and to share.)

We don't even have a Target here yet, and we have Target ads on TV. _All advertising_ is about getting you to buy something you don't need. If you believe anything different, you're fooling yourself.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llamalluv* 
5. The stores are always dirty and unorganized.

A con man in a designer suit is _still_ a con man. It's all packaging and marketing. And if you don't shop there, how do you _know_ it's dirty and disorganized?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llamalluv* 
6. I have been harassed by employees when leaving their stores - I was accused of theft when I refused to show what was in my bags of paid for merchandise.*

They don't harass people for stealing, instead _they let them walk out and raise prices to cover the loss._ Company policy says you let them walk out.
Be sure to click on the blue link, I worked for Toys R Us, and they had the same policy, you weren't allowed to stop shoplifters, but then when it came time for raises one of the reasons they used to deny them was that _you didn't keep a lid on shoplifting losses.








_http://www.ogresview.com/archives/592

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llamalluv* 
7. Their policies on dealing with suppliers - "give it to us cheap and fast - who cares about quality or your profit margin?"

This is covered in some of my links, Target has the same practices.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llamalluv* 
8. The complete lack of care for the environment (such as leaving pallets of pesticide out in the rain...)

That is also covered in the links, both companies have the same practices.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llamalluv* 
9. The savings are marginal - if they are even present. The last pair of jeans I bought were $15. The last pair that I bought at Wal*Mart were $22....same brand. I regularly buy our groceries at everyday prices that Wal*Mart can only beat during a sale.

2 sides of the same coin. A discount store is a discount store.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llamalluv* 
10. The store is too big, the parking lots are too big, and I get hurt trying to maneuver through both between my bad back and fibromyalgia.

Ever been to a Super Target? Not much different from a Super Wal-Mart. I find most stores of any kind to be a pain for the same reason. Fibro sucks. But I also like 1 stop shopping with gas prices what they are, and living on an island, you go where you can find most of what is on your shopping list.

When it is reported that Target is associated with an item from a sweatshop, they deny it and pretend they knew nothing about it, just like Wal-Mart.
http://abcnews.go.com/business/holid...3989096&page=1
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...6/ai_n22469115
http://www.sunmt.org/gaptrial.html
http://www.laborradio.org/node/1727

According to No Sweat, Target is just barely scoring above Wal-Mart when it comes to stocking merchandise made with sweatshop labor.
http://www.coopamerica.org/programs/.../scorecard.cfm

When you add all these factors together, I'm not seeing a big difference in the 2 stores other than the packaging and advertising.

So explain to me again how Target is somehow better than Wal-Mart just because they're in a _prettier package?







_ You are falling for the packaging and marketing, which is _exactly what they want you to do._


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## happyhats

I didn't know all that about Target, so thanks. I have known a few people to work at different stores and have all had really good experience, in different states. I know that the stores obviously aren't always the most ecologically sound, nor am I delusional about them shipping products from out of the country. I only shop at Target once in a blue moon, and now I may not even do that. Honestly, I'd rather support a mom and pop business with problems than a major chain.


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## bigeyes

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happyhats* 
I didn't know all that about Target, so thanks. I have known a few people to work at different stores and have all had really good experience, in different states. I know that the stores obviously aren't always the most ecologically sound, nor am I delusional about them shipping products from out of the country. I only shop at Target once in a blue moon, and now I may not even do that. Honestly, I'd rather support a mom and pop business with problems than a major chain.

YW. I was aware of this stuff, which was why I always got so irritated by the whole _Target is better_ thing.

To me, governments who allow companies to get away with these business practices are the evil ones.

Think how much time and energy goes into protesting Wal-mart. Couldn't that time and energy be better spent _changing the laws_ that allow big companies to exploit workers overseas or under-insure workers here?


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## octobermoon

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 

To me, governments who allow companies to get away with these business practices are the evil ones.

OK WHOAH! EVIL?! I think that statement is totally out of balance. This kind of language is definitely not compassionate and leaves a lot to be desired......... I do not agree when one starts viewing others as the BAD ones, which only makes the accuser the GOOD one. Where is the respect? Where is the kindness? NOT COOL! AND ANYWAY the thread is about WAL-MART NOT TARGET.


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## BeeandOwlsMum

Thread is closed.

If you all would take the time to read the sticky at the top of this forum you will note that it says there is no debate in Activism. Threads are for a cause, and that's it. If you feel a counter cause is valid, submit a thread, but do not debate on the threads.


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