# My experience with attachment parenting. Not a debate on how I word things. UGH!



## tillymonster (May 12, 2011)

I have been an attached mama since my DD was born, before I even knew what it was. I just think it's the most amazing thing, I find it fascinating and can't imagine parenting my child ANY other way.

Sadly, it's been a major struggle to cope with how different the world around me, parents their children. And while I try my hardest NOT to judge, I am judged, in a major way, on a regular basis. Consisting of everything from "Wow, you sit in the back seat with your child, I feel SO sorry for you" to "I feel that some parents take this kind of parenting to the extreme. I don't see what's wrong with letting my 3mo son cry on the way to the store, he needs to learn. I wont let a baby change my life."

I was very open about my parenting. So much so I would send emails to said offenders trying to explain my views with various articles on Dr. Sears' website. Boy, was that a mistake. Now I am mostly likely the gossip of my family and friends and considered to have "weird and strange" ideas about parenting. I have now started to really try and adopt the "Pass the bean dip", I even have it printed out on my fridge for encouragement.

How have you ladies, in hindsight, dealt with you're choices as an attached parent? I need to learn tolerance and feel like I have made leaps and bounds since the birth of my daughter. I feel like I never, ever, attack anyone but feel attacked all the time. Perhaps it's a sensitivity and I need to get over it LOL. I just love discussing things about my life on an open level and this is just one of those things I wont ever be able to discuss with most people.


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

Honestly? Thick skin is required for this type of parenting. Seriously. I get comments all the time...and I'm on kid number 2! You'd think I know what I'm doing this time...

If you ignore them long enough or shut them down with "this works for us" or "This is the way I'm doing things" EVENTUALLY they'll shut up a little bit...


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## tillymonster (May 12, 2011)

Yes well, my skin is growing thicker and thicker as we speak. Sometimes I'm OK and other times, not. I'm a pretty confident person on most levels. I just want to talk to people about it and then realize, I can't!


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## AFWife (Aug 30, 2008)

I have a few facts that I'll toss out and see what kind of bite I get...if it's a negative one I do a shutdown response. Other than that...I come here a lot and belong to a natural parenting group in my city.


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## Tjej (Jan 22, 2009)

When people say negative things to me about what I am doing I try to consider why they might say that. Are they feeling defensive? Are they seeing something I don't see? Are they just expressing an opinion that is different from mine?

When I have a take on why things are being said to me it makes it easier to respond appropriately. I find that almost everyone who says something I don't like or agree with is usually just sharing their experiences or feeling defensive. So that is fine. I try to listen and be nice. And sometimes they have a useful outside perspective on how my child and I are interacting. So maybe I can think about what our interactions look like to people around me and decide if that is what I want in our relationship. It's all good. And if someone is just being mean, that's easy too - I ignore them. 

Tjej


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## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

It took me some time to feel comfortable in my parenting. I'm still always learning and applying new things. The children are each different and their needs are different. I try to meet their needs as best I can. Sometimes I fail, but I'm only one human. Sometimes I have to triage their needs: the baby needs/wants to nurse, the oldest needs assistance with her math homework and the middle child is smearing poop on the wall; I'm taking care of the poopy child first, then I'll nurse the baby while helping the oldest with the homework.

I do not sit in the backseat. I have 3 children. There are three seats in the back. Even with only one, I did not sit in the back with her. I am not my children's friend; I'm their mother. Sometimes I will have to make and enforce decisions that are not popular. I think that is the best I can do. I will not let my identity become enmeshed in being "so-and-so's mommy". And I really do not care what other people think.


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

you mean sit in the back seat of the car w- the baby while the other parent drives? absolutely! Dh or I always sit in the back while the other one drives- why not- it helps ds (aged 1) to be happier. Anyway- yeah, if you are getting judgement from people, try to not talk so much to those people about it- try to find more AP like people to talk to I guess! I think every parent gets judged no matter where on the spectrum of AP they fall! I think having kids just some how makes other people feel that theycan give you their un solicited opinion! IT pisses me off when I am feeling fragile, it amuses me when I Am feeling strong! OP, hang out here on MDC if you are looking for support on your AP choices.


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## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

I am going on number five and I promise you it gets much better. I think when your children get older, first the proof is in the pudding. People see that they turn out just fine despite the breastfeeding and cloth diapers







Second, the things that consume our lives with young children aren't really an issue with the older ones. I go to a play group once a week for birth to preschool children and there is all kinds of talk about feeding, diapering, sleeping, etc. I also take my older children to gymnastics, scouts, swimming, basketball. There is almost never any talk about the choices you made when they were younger.

It can be really hard sometimes, and it is even harder when you feel like you don't have a lot of support. I just wanted to give you a little glimmer of hope for the future!


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## tillymonster (May 12, 2011)

Yes I do plan on hanging out here and do on Kellymom's forums quite frequently. I do realize they once they get older, things will be different. I just want to enjoy my DD and it's hard to do that with idiotic comments and cruel expectations from people who I am trying to connect with.

Yes, DD is a car hater. Always has been. She feels most safe on her mama, and I dint blame her. I ride in the back when DH drives. It's either that or we'd have to have a barrage of toys and DVDs to entertain her. She is getting better. I'm worried that I am pregnant with my 2nd and if I'll be able to handle another baby and AP. I know I won't parent any other way but I will have to let DH and some family help out more meaning they will try to impose on me their opinions!

Thanks for all the kind responses!


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I only sat in the backseat if someone was having trouble that car ride, but generally not.

All moms get judged, no matter their parenting style. If you did everything completely differently, you'd get judged as much. There's no point in worrying about judgment when you can't avoid it no matter what you do. I just try not to be part of judgement against other moms.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> All moms get judged, no matter their parenting style. If you did everything completely differently, you'd get judged as much. There's no point in worrying about judgment when you can't avoid it no matter what you do. I just try not to be part of judgement against other moms.


Honestly, I had the same thought. As a result of the self-esteem movement, we live in a time when people have been encouraged to question everything they hear and see and speak up about their opinions ("I have the right to free speech!"), with the righteous certainty that their views are valuable to everyone. It encourages judgmental attitudes. And it's easy to be judgmental about parenting because there are no qualifications for the role. Mainstream, traditional parents feel just as judged.

It is tough if you don't have a like-minded community for support and to discuss common interests, beliefs and methods. It would help if you could find or build a community. Maybe start up a parenting group if you can't find one near you.


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## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tillymonster*
> 
> Yes I do plan on hanging out here and do on Kellymom's forums quite frequently. I do realize they once they get older, things will be different. I just want to enjoy my DD and it's hard to do that with idiotic comments and cruel expectations from people who I am trying to connect with.
> 
> ...


(Bolding mine)

I found it easy to integrate the second baby because of AP. DS would often be tucked into the sling, happy as a clam, while I would focus on my older child. The day care demanded disposable diapers, but I'd cloth diaper at home. I co-slept with both children. I'd breastfeed the baby while reading my older child a story or would set her up with an activity. Maybe some crayons and paper. Somehow, the younger children, well, we don't always have the luxury of bending to that child's "schedule" when the sibling also has (conflicting) needs (such as a dance class). You learn to triage. See my previous post. Sometimes the baby needs you most urgently, sometimes it is the older sibling. But, it can take a bit of practice and you will feel bad when asking one child or the other to wait. I think the APness either gets less intense physically the more kids you have --or you learn that when Johnny and Sally are happily entertaining each other/themselves, you just relax, not everything needs to be an "adult assisted learning experience" --or you will end up burning yourself out. Oh, and delegate.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tillymonster*
> 
> I was very open about my parenting. So much so I would send emails to said offenders trying to explain my views with various articles on Dr. Sears' website. Boy, was that a mistake. Now I am mostly likely the gossip of my family and friends and considered to have "weird and strange" ideas about parenting. I have now started to really try and adopt the "Pass the bean dip", I even have it printed out on my fridge for encouragement.


May be you could re-frame that as a learning experience rather than a mistake. Who are these people? What are the relationships like? Do you value their opinions? Why?

My mother was a really horrid mother to me, and she thought the way I parented when my kids were little was silly, but it never bothered me because I knew that I wanted to do things differently than she did. With my friends, it was different, because I cared about what they thought and wanted to feel connected.

Are you making new mommy friends who are on the same wave length? LLL, even if you don't need BFing support, is a wonderful place to meet like-minded women.

And just for the record, not every mother CAN sit with their baby in the back seat EVERY time they are in the car. They must go places on their own without another person to drive them around. It's a priveledge that your life affords you, and one you may not have with your next child. With every child you add to your family, what you have to keep doing while caring for a newborn increases. When I had my second, she just was a long for the ride a great deal because her sister was in a variety of therapies for special needs.

I suspect that you are at least a little superior about your parenting or needing validation or something, or that you wouldn't be drawing as much negativity as you are. There's something go inside you that you could change that would change your experience.


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2lilsweetfoxes*
> 
> . Even with only one, I did not sit in the back with her. I am not my children's friend; I'm their mother. Sometimes I will have to make and enforce decisions that are not popular. I think that is the best I can do. I will not let my identity become enmeshed in being "so-and-so's mommy". And I really do not care what other people think.


Yes. This. I am their mother. And I expect their respect first and foremost. And THEY like that they know exactly where they stand with me. There is no second guessing. If they are asked to do something, they are asked nicely. But they understand that that isnt up for debate.

They have asked if they could finish something else first, and if its reasonable I am fine with that. I will often just say "Could you load the dishwasher when you have a minute"

It shows that I respect their time, but I expect it to be done all the same.

I never ask the kids to do what I woudlnt. I would never expect more from them then I do myself. But I am the mum. They are my kids.

I dont sit in the back seat anymore. I did when my DD had her feeding tube. But mostly so I could watch it didnt leak all over her and she was still breathing. Sometimes I will sit in the backseat b/c my 15 year old has longer legs. However, I am the mother and I do get the front seat. When they grow up and get married, they can make that choice, or a different choice. But this is mine.

They could choose to act up in the car and make it a miserable ride for themselves, or they could learn to cope with car rides. It was their choice.

I do attachment parenting in the mannar I see fit. I get questioned about Homeschooling alot. And about how I handle my ODD with DEv delay,ASD and anxiety. People think I am letting her control me, that I just need to give her a shove and she will be just fine.

When that happens I just ignore them. I owe them nothing. I owe my kids everything b/c I choose to have them.


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## alittlesandy (Jan 20, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> And just for the record, not every mother CAN sit with their baby in the back seat EVERY time they are in the car. They must go places on their own without another person to drive them around. It's a privilege that your life affords you, and one you may not have with your next child. With every child you add to your family, what you have to keep doing while caring for a newborn increases. When I had my second, she just was a long for the ride a great deal because her sister was in a variety of therapies for special needs.
> 
> I suspect that you are at least a little superior about your parenting or needing validation or something, or that you wouldn't be drawing as much negativity as you are. There's something go inside you that you could change that would change your experience.


I think these are interesting points. It has been my life experience (with my own child and through watching my siblings raise their children) that ALL TYPES OF PARENTING receive criticism. I don't see AP parents being singled out for persecution. That may be your perception because of your own insecurities or whatever.

I come from a long tradition of non-AP parenting, lol. Yet I was hard-core AP in the beginning. I breastfed for two years, did baby-led solids, cloth diapers, co-sleeping, sling, etc. I braced myself for all sorts of comments and criticism and none of that happened. I breastfed in public for two years and nobody said a word. I breastfed in front of my right-wing republican Dad and he didn't say a word. Everyone is and always has been full of admiration that I do cloth diapers. Nobody has ever said a word to me about circumcision. Raising my son AP has been an amazingly positive experience. In fact, I've had only criticism from like-minded parents, one who told me she proudly never owned a stroller with all three kids (when I showed up at her house with DS in a jogging stroller), and one friend who still insists that we do all play dates at her house because we have plastic toys.

My DH once made the comment that a lot of AP parents seem to wear their beliefs like a hair shirt.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tillymonster*
> 
> I am judged, in a major way, on a regular basis. .... "I don't see what's wrong with letting my 3mo son cry on the way to the store, he needs to learn. I wont let a baby change my life."


This isn't an example of someone judging you. This is an example of some one stating what they do with their own child, which doesn't have a darn thing to do with you and your kid. If you feel judgment every time some one does something differently than you, then yes, of course, you feel judged ALL the time because different people do things differently. But it's not because they are judging you.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> This isn't an example of someone judging you. This is an example of some one stating what they do with their own child, which doesn't have a darn thing to do with you and your kid. If you feel judgment every time some one does something differently than you, then yes, of course, you feel judged ALL the time because different people do things differently. But it's not because they are judging you.


I agree with this.

I do have to admit that the piece of the OP that you quoted made me feel as judgmental as it gets. I do not understand the "I won't let a baby change my life" mindset...not even a little bit. I can't see how anybody can think it's reasonable to add a whole other human being to their life, on a full-time basis, and not have that life change. However, that's my issue, not that of the person who said that. I expect if I spent much time around that person, I'd end up feeling judged, because that person would probably pick up on my attitude abou them, and dish it back to me, even if I wasn't saying anything out loud. (I need to do more work on not feeling oh-so-superior in some areas.)


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## littleheartsbks (Apr 13, 2011)

I am APing baby #6 (ages 23 yrs, 21 yrs, 16 yrs, 12 yrs, 5 yrs, and 12 months). There wasn't a name for my parenting style--co-sleeping, babywearing, no cio, extended breastfeeding, positive discipline, homeschooling, and (yes, lol) sitting in the backseat so my babies didn't cry--that I was aware of at the time. So I came up with my own name to explain it when asked--Gentle Parenting. Many years later, I heard of Attachment Parenting and realized it was very similar to what I had been doing with my babies. That was really exciting for me because up until that point I didn't know one, not one, single person who parented even remotely how I parented! AP seemed to focus more on infancy and Positive Discipline on toddlers and up, so I combined the two and added in my own experiences and 'tweaks' and outright differences and started writing and mentoring and speaking on Gentle Parenting. Dealing with detractors is pretty much everyday life for me, but as others have said, as the years go by and you are consistently complemented by strangers and friends alike on how well behaved and friendly your children are, your choices are validated and you feel more comfortable with your parenting. And now, with my older children (one a Pastor, one a Family Therapist, one in Pre-med) graduated from college or presently attending, and two being homeschooled and a sweet tempered little one year old in my sling, it's quite difficult for those who've told me my children would end up delinquents or fastfood workers or uncivilized thugs to feel they have a leg to stand on! And for those who've spent years telling me I'm giving up my own life for my children by choosing to stay at home and center my life on them, I say I've received so much more than I so willingly gave up! I'm a published author, a speaker/advocate for Gentle Parenting, and a very happy human being! And lastly, for those who say I violated the Biblical teaching to 'spare the rod, spoil the child,' I say, "Check your Bible again!" The rod spoken of is the same word used for a shepherd's staff, and it was used to GENTLY GUIDE the sheep, not to hit or hurt them. Jesus is my role model, and He didn't hit His disciples...just saying!


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## tillymonster (May 12, 2011)

Wow these are some amazing and thought provoking replies and I thank you all. It makes me feel so good to hear about the proof in the putting as one mama above put it. I'm going to try some reframing here and learn from my experience rather then feeling judged/attacked. I just wished I had had the experience alittlesandy had- where no one said a word and respected her choices! That would be amazing! But no, I get a mom who only has a 3mo telling me she knows better and thinks CIO is ok?!?! How can I help not feeling superior? I've got 17 month more experience. Pfft! Well I'm just going to pick myself up, dust myself off and keep riding. Littleheartsbks's post above was inspiring and you can tell just by the way she writes why AP/gentle parenting is so wonderful- it's all about loving your babies and ultimately- yourself!

Thanks again ladies!


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

*But no, I get a mom who only has a 3mo telling me she knows better and thinks CIO is ok?!?! How can I help not feeling superior? I've got 17 month more experience*

But you have 17 months experience with YOUR child. Not with hers. Not with mine. Yours.

And seriously, you CAN help feeling superior b/c you are NOT superior. You are equal. Your both mothers. You both have babies. That is equal.

I have a 16 year old, an 11 year old, 10 year old and a 7 year old. Does that give me the right to feel superior over you? I mean you just have 1 kid, and he is still a baby at that, You havent dealt with school teachers and bullies on the playground and learning disabilities in your kids, or highschool pressures. Or parenting multiple kids.

But I dont feel superior over you. Why would I? What in the world would make me superior to you?

I think that if you are recieving so much negative comments, this could be why. They probably sense that you weild superiority over them b/c you have a kid a few months older. That does NOT make you a superior parent or even a more knowledgeable parent. That makes you a parent with a 17 month old. Thats it.

I think you need to change your attitude. Your negative comments will soon change too.

You have put alot of stock in your parenting style. However that isnt for everyone. And people do get upset if someone else criticizes their parenting.

You are doing just what you are mad at her for doing.

I remember a women, a nurse actually, that led our mothers group. I asked her about how to sterilize baby bottles. And she said, infront of the entire group, that she could NOT talk about bottle feeding at this group. That this group only supported breastfeeding and my cooler and my bottles had to be set on the coat rack outside. They werent allowed into the room.

Can you imagine how humilated I was?

And you know what..I WASNT bottle feeding. My daughter had a feeding tube and I was storing the milk in the bottles so I could them gavange her through the tube.

But I was singled out b/c I wasnt doing what THEY felt was "right".

They weilded their superiority as a weapon. And it hurt just like one. Dont do that to other people. Its not fair to them to hold everyone to your standards.

You have a baby. You have lots of parenting left to do.


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## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

Exactly. I think a lot of the issue is that we all want reassurance that we are doing this "raising kids thing" right. No matter what parenting method we use, whether AP, "mainstream", or Pearls* (or, as is often the case, not really any of them, but taking what makes sense from each method and combining them as you see fit and works for you and your family/baby.) When our kids are happy, well adjusted, and all that, it is easy to pat yourself on the back and say "I'm doing the right thing." Then, look down the street. The Smith kids are being raised in a polar opposite environment. They are happy, well adjusted, polite, obedient. Well, knowing what you know about the way they are raised, you wonder if they are just "broken" because they used CIO and spank. Mr. and Mrs. Smith think your children must be hellions because you don't spank or whatnot. People see what they want to see and filter it through the lenses of their own experience and what they know.

(As for CIO being the "best thing evah", is it possible she has one of those kids who just needs to fuss a moment before going to sleep. Trying to rock those babies and nurse them down is a pain. You will take hours getting her to sleep--then just as soon as you put her down, she's crying, so you start over. And over. For hours. Just rock her, nurse her, tell a story or sing a song, then place in crib, lovingly say goodnight and leave the room. The protests will stop in about 3-5 minutes. Other babies are like "WTF, mama?" and will scream for hours. The trouble starts when you treat both the same way. Part of AP is meeting your child's needs such as they are. Sometimes the method of meeting their needs seems counter to AP.)

*had to throw an opposite on the other end of the spectrum in there


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tillymonster*
> 
> Wow these are some amazing and thought provoking replies and I thank you all. It makes me feel so good to hear about the proof in the putting as one mama above put it. I'm going to try some reframing here and learn from my experience rather then feeling judged/attacked. I just wished I had had the experience alittlesandy had- where no one said a word and respected her choices! That would be amazing! But no, I get a mom who only has a 3mo telling me she knows better and thinks CIO is ok?!?! How can I help not feeling superior? I've got 17 month more experience. Pfft! Well I'm just going to pick myself up, dust myself off and keep riding. Littleheartsbks's post above was inspiring and *you can tell just by the way she writes why AP/gentle parenting is so wonderful- it's all about loving your babies and ultimately- yourself!*
> 
> Thanks again ladies!


I think you have to be careful when you say things like the quote above that I've bolded. Yes, AP is wonderful and it's all about loving your babies. But a non-AP parent is going to hear you saying "non-AP parenting is not loving your babies". You may not think that CIO is the best way to demonstrate love, but that doesn't mean that the CIO parents don't love their babies as much as you do. Maybe those parents think they are showing that they love their babies even more because they are willing to use a tough love approach, and it involves heart-wrenching actions for them. I don't want to debate or even support CIO, I'm just following the example you used.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

That was a great post beenmum...and I am so sorry you were singled out about those bottles. It is so awful that mothers judge each other over the mere sight of a bottle without even bothering to find out all the details. Even if you were exclusively FFing, which you weren't, they shouldn't have treated you like that!

I take parenting advice with a grain of salt when it comes from anyone who doesn't have a good deal of experience with my child. It is easy to feel like you know more about parenting than parents whose children are younger than yours, but you don't. You know about parenting YOUR child, not theirs. Likewise, other parents know plenty about parenting their own children, not yours. It doesn't matter how long they have been a parent compared to you; no one's parenting experience trumps anyone else's. I take it with a grain of salt when a "less experienced mama" tries to educate me just as I do when a "more experienced" parent tries to do it. They don't know my children; I do.

I agree with others than when someone says "I can't imagine doing X; I do it Y way because of Z" it is not a critique or commentary on your parenting... it's just them explaining to you what works for them. I agree with the last poster who pointed out how saying "AP is all about loving your babies" can be construed as insinuating that non-AP parenting isn't about loving your babies. Parenting in general is about loving your babies; it's not exclusive to AP.


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

Thank you Moonfire. I liked your points also.

What really bothered me about that situation, was that my DD tube was attached to her face, an NG tube. So they could well see that she wasnt a typical child who was able to breastfeed.

But still felt the need to point out my deficences as a parent.

In the end, we all love our kids. And we are all trying to do our best.

But it should never be at the expense of other people.


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## alittlesandy (Jan 20, 2010)

I think we bring some of our own issues to things, which can have an impact on how we relate to others. I have a hard time believing that the other mom said verbatim, "I don't care if my baby cries." All parents, AP or not, CIO or not, are bothered by their children's crying. I've never met anyone who wasn't. We held firmly to all AP tenets except for cosleeping, bceause my DS simply did not want to be in the bed with us after four months. He would push on me and kick me and fuss. I really wanted him next to me, but I put him the crib we had assembled in the room (which we were using for storage, lol) to see if it helped. He took to it like a fish to water. I continuously tried cosleeping with him, envying my friends whose babies could just latch on anytime they wanted. I had to get him out of the crib to nurse. But as soon as he was done nursing he wanted back in the crib. Even now, when I bring him to bed with me at age two, he will snuggle for a few minutes and then point to the crib.

I hate to say this, but I sometimes cringe when my AP friends see the crib. I know they must think I did CIO or some such, even though I never did, and I really feel it was what my son preferred. I also never rode in the backseat with my son, because he would fuss constantly, no matter what I did. When I was driving, and he was alone, he was perfectly content. So the next time I rode in the car while my husband was driving, I rode shotgun rather than in the backseat. It worked like a charm! All babies are different...

Finally, you have to pick your battles with other people. Yes, as I said in a previous post, my non-AP family was very happy and respectful of my choices, but I never lorded it over them. For example, once my mom gave me some playtex bottles. She knew I was breastfeeding but she also knew I would be pumping, and she also probably assumed I would at some point switch to bottles. I've seen posts on these forums along these lines: "OMG my horrible mother gave me BOTTLES!!! What should I do? Disown her?" I just think this is over the top. I thanked my mom and after she left I quietly returned the bottles and bought Avent, which is what I would be using for pumping. My mom either never noticed or never commented on the switch.

In another example, my sister was with DS one day and put a disposable on him (we kept them around for traveling or whatever) even though I had told her we use cloth and showed her where they were and how to use them. I assume she just didn't feel like using them or felt intimidated. I simply thanked her for changing him and never said a word about it.

I think the thing that makes me sad about many AP parents is I often believe they enjoy being superior so much that they almost don't want AP to become mainstream. To win people over, you can't act superior. You have to begin by accepting that all parents love and care about their children, and that all babies are different.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ollyoxenfree*
> 
> I think you have to be careful when you say things like the quote above that I've bolded. Yes, AP is wonderful and it's all about loving your babies. But a non-AP parent is going to hear you saying "non-AP parenting is not loving your babies". You may not think that CIO is the best way to demonstrate love, but that doesn't mean that the CIO parents don't love their babies as much as you do. Maybe those parents think they are showing that they love their babies even more because they are willing to use a tough love approach, and it involves heart-wrenching actions for them. I don't want to debate or even support CIO, I'm just following the example you used.


I have to agree. Some friends of dh used CIO, and it made me feel ill. But, I watched the mom while her son CIO, and she watched every second of it on a baby monitor. I could tell she was feeling absolutely sick inside, but, for whatever reason (and I honestly don't know where/why they chose to use CIO), she believed this was the best thing for her baby, and she was going to do it, no matter how hard it was on her. I think she was wrong and got bad advice/guidance/whatever. But, I also know she loves that little boy with all her heart, and she caused herself a lot of pain to do what she truly believed was best for him. I wished I'd known them well enough to try to talk to her about it, but I didn't and still don't.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *tillymonster* 


> How can I help not feeling superior? I've got 17 month more experience. Pfft! Well I'm just going to pick myself up, dust myself off and keep riding.


you get what you give in life. All that energy of "how can I help not feeling superior?" is coming from you and being reflected back. It's like looking in a mirror, you are just seeing your own reflection.

I'm going to quote myself:









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> I suspect that you are at least a little superior about your parenting or needing validation or something, or that you wouldn't be drawing as much negativity as you are. There's something go inside you that you could change that would change your experience.


What I said was true. There is something going on inside you that you can change. Feeling superior is something that you can help. It's something that you can outgrow.

And APing doesn't come with a money back guarantee that your kids will turn out a certain way. Your kids have free will. They will turn out how they choose. Parenting isn't like baking a batch a cookies that if you follow the recipe just right, you get a certain result. We, as mothers, are blessed to play such an important part of another human's life. We don't get to decide who they really are. They do.

The reason to AP is because it feels right in your heart. Other parents have other things that feel right in their hearts, and that's OK. And until your really feel that in your bones, you'll have issues with other moms. The minute you really get that, all those issues will dissolve.


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## marinak1977 (Feb 24, 2009)

mmm... now I want cookies.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

I'd also like to point out that 17 months isn't very long. It's not even a year and a half. Childrearing takes 18 years, and parenting isn't over at that point. It's also experience with only ONE child, and one is the smallest number.


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## tillymonster (May 12, 2011)

Well this thread sure did get me a lot of responses that are sort of off point to me. I feel superior over the situation I'm in with some of my friends/family because I have 17months more experience in gentle parenting over others who have none or next to none. No, this is nothing in the larger scheme of things, and I'll be the first to tell anyone I am a student of life and being DDs mother is a learning experience, everyday!

I do not enjoy being told what to do with my child by a person who just had a baby 3 months ago. If she had any respect she would keep those comments to herself. As I wish many of my inner circle would. I would not ever say to her "oh, you should pick up your baby when he cries!". Out of respect. But they can just go and say whatever they want? It's annoying to say the least. Especially the ones with kids!

AP to me, is about trusting motherly/fatherly intuition. When someone tells me "your DD just needs to CIO, she will be OK and because you are not doing that you are spoiling her" Yes, this is a judgement on my parenting skills by that person. Have you ever talked to a mom who did CIO and wasn't guilty or feeling horrible about that choice? I haven't. Not one. Have you talked to a mom who promptly responds and feels that satisfaction in knowing she can soothe her baby? It's a very different, isn't it? It's a natural thing, it's trusting your instincts. That's IMHO all AP is to me in most cases. Anyone who tells me they won't let a baby change their life means, TO ME, that they have a baby, and it's inconveniencing their lives. It bothers me. And yes, I do need to learn tolerance and respect for other parenting methods but so do the people around me!

At any rate, I love to discuss AP and how other families learned to deal with criticism because it's sadly not the trendy way to parent. I hope I clarified some things here...


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## Tjej (Jan 22, 2009)

I think it would serve you well to consider being "AP" with your friends and not just your kid. Gentle, compassionate parenting is also just a reflection of your other relationships in life. I think if you choose to feel superior over others for whatever reason - or choose to be offended by them for whatever reason, you're missing the point.

Tjej


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I had to smile about the comment that "the proof is in the pudding"...mainly because mine are now eleven and six and some folks still think we've seriously messed up. 

However...I don't have near as many folks giving me advice now as I did before. Even though my daughters both nursed for a long time, as they got older it tended to happen more at home when there wasn't so much going on, i.e. at bedtimes and upon waking. I'm sure most people assumed they'd weaned long before they actually had. And the subject of co-sleeping doesn't come up anymore unless, for example, I meet a mom who drifted into it without really intending to and is now worried about it.

I used to get a kick out of shocking people with how "weird" we were, but the fun just kind of ebbed out of that when a social worker showed up on our doorstep a couple of years ago. While nothing bad came of that, it shook me up a bit and made me realize that my family's privacy is more imortant than all those folks that I'd like to shock.. or educate...or whatever. 

The fact is that while most people who disagree will just disagree and maybe dawg you to their friends, some people feel a compulsive need to take their disagreement to a whole new level and try to force "weird" folks to comply with their ideas of normalcy. Maybe it gives 'em a kick like it used to give me a kick to shock people.

Sometimes I think if I had it to do over I would've talked a lot less and avoided shocking people...but then I realize that my talking so much actually solved a potential problem with my sister. Because of trust issues I had with her carried over from my own childhood (she's 19 years older), I knew I would never trust her enough to be able to leave my daughters with her for overnights and so on, and the subject was starting to come up more, and I was realizing that at some point I was going to have to hurt her feelings...but then when she tried to send the State into our lives, it pretty much ended our relationship. So, she did the feelings-hurting part for me... I know it's weird, but I feel so much more comfortable with others hurting my feelings than I do with hurting theirs, LOL.

So maybe as one other poster mentioned, you shouldn't see your previous openness as a mistake, but more as a learning experience. Everything ends up unfolding in the way that it should...it's just our job to learn to enjoy the unfolding.


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

I feel superior over the situation I'm in with some of my friends/family because I have 17months more experience in gentle parenting over others who have none or next to none

This is where you are making the mistakes and getting judged. Your creating your own downfall by even thinking that you have any superiority in parenting.

You may end up eating crow. Remember that 17 months with a healthy, able bodied child is not exactly the wealth of expereince that you seem to think it is.

Its not your parenting they are having an issue with. Its your attitude. This is the second time you expressed how superior you feel you are to family and friends.

Part of being a parent in being willing to step back and say " I dont know as much as I think I do. What can I learn from the people around me."

I have been doing AP for 16 years. Homeschooling, breastfeeding, co sleeping, no CIO. I would never ever think that my ways are superior or better then another persons. That isnt the basis of AP. I have never once been criticized over it.

I have had people express their views on it, and express their parenting policies. None of that equal and attack on mine.

I tell my kids all the time, a compliment to one does not mean an insult to the other. Meaning if someone makes a comment about their views, they are not insulting your views.

What exactly did you find to be insulting in her comment that it was okay to let HER baby CIO?


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

I would suggest another line instead of "pass the bean dip" - that would be "This works for us and our child right now." That's not judgmental, and it's the truth.

I will admit that it's really hard for me not to be judgmental when I hear someone describing something I would never do. I was listening to someone describe on Sunday how she was so excited to go care for her niece and nephew from Tuesday to Friday while her sister/BIL went to see the finals of American Idol (or was it Dancing with the Stars??). I thought that was really cool until she said that her nephew was 4 months old. It took me a minute to get my head around that. I shared a glance with a crunchy mom friend and bit my tongue. My gut reaction was: How can she leave such a tiny infant for so long? How is he going to eat? But while it wouldn't be my choice to leave a 4 month old infant, she's not abandoning him to the wolves -- she's leaving him in the loving care of his aunt.

As your child grows, you will need to change how you do things. As your family grows, things will need to change. When you add a 2nd child (or a 3rd, or a 4th) someone's going to have to wait a little longer for your attention. Our dd has been sick for the last couple of days (the last in the family to get the evil stomach virus). Because of that, I've been spending a lot of time sitting next to her on the bed. She's an extrovert and wants company in her misery. But that means that our son has had less attention from me. It's going to be a few days before I can remedy this because it's also his sister's birthday tomorrow. Luckily, ds is 10 able to handle it. It was harder when he was 3.

And your children might well end up with very different needs. Our ds was the 'anti-AP' baby. He hated to be worn. He slept best in a crib. In fact, he slept in that crib until he was 5. He loved the enclosed, safe feeling it gave him. When we gave him a chance to move to a loft bed with a similar type of feel, he jumped at it. Dd didn't even have a crib set up until she was 9 months. And even then, she didn't really sleep in it much. She needed to sleep with us - both for contact and for food. (She reverse cycled while I was at work, so got most of her nutrition at night.)

I can't feel superior that dd coslept because ds didn't. And really dd coslept with us out of desperation, not philosophy (though I was philosophically in favor of it). When ds was a baby, dh and I would trade off getting up when he woke (if he needed to eat, it was my turn, if he needed comfort it was dh's). So, ds never cried on his own, but it took a lot of getting out of bed for us. I couldn't ask dh to get up with dd, because I needed him to be awake enough to get up with ds in the mornings. The only way all of us were going to get sleep was by cosleeping with dd.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alittlesandy*
> 
> My DH once made the comment that a lot of AP parents seem to wear their beliefs like a hair shirt.










Yes, I think it's unfortunate. AP is the natural way to parent and I do wish more parents would honor their instincts when parenting. But it's hard to embrace a philosophy that seems to have such strict adherants. The 'holier than thou' attitude is off-putting to many. I don't think it's intentional on most parents' part, but again, it's the implied message.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tillymonster*
> 
> I have been an attached mama since my DD was born, before I even knew what it was. I just think it's the most amazing thing, I find it fascinating and can't imagine parenting my child ANY other way.
> 
> ...


Two thoughts here: Evangelists of all sorts -- whether it be religious or parenting -- tend to get people's backs up. It sounds to me like you were being a bit of an unintetional evangelist. When you're doing that, the hidden message you're sending is "Your parenting isn't good enough". I know that's not what you intended, but that's often the message people receive. It's hard, when you feel passionate about things, to recognize the implications of some of the things that you're saying. that's why I find "Well, this is working for us right now" to be a great line. You're not backing down on your beliefs, you're not leaving much room for discussion, and you're not saying anything about their parenting.

As for the most likely being the gossip of riends and family: My philosophy here is "if they don't talk to me about it, I don't know about it". I perfected that line while being president of the parent-teacher organization at our kids' school. I just can't spend time and emotional energy worrying about other people's potential gossip. It's amazing how much of the drama disappeared from my life (and the PTO) when I adopted that attitude.

In the end, we do AP because it's right for us. I don't try to justify what we do, or really even explain it unless directly asked. Right now, OP, you're in the 'hard years' because so many people have ideas about how babies and toddlers should be treated and disciplined. As your child grows, she'll develop more and you'll not have to justify what you're doing so much. Some day, you'll have a child who can tie her own shoes, buckle her own seat belt, and wipe her own bottom and fall asleep by herself. And you'll know that you helped her get there the best way you knew how.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Oh, and further evidence that AP was right for us: This week, ds had to give a speech in class -- they were supposed to talk about themselves (where they were born, their family, their interests). Ds' last point was about things that he wanted people to know about them. Do you know what those things were? They were:

That he really likes penguins and he never wants any penguins to die or be killed by pollution or global warming. And that he has a good family.

My fondest wish is that every 10 year old in the world would feel the same way about their family. I hope someday it will be true.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

Again, *17 months isn't a long time*. It's not. It's not even two years. It's not even a year and a half. It's also experience only with YOUR child, not anyone else's or even with children in general. It certainly isn't experience raising more than one child, being a single mama, or being the matroness of a military family. You are *not* superior. Period. As soon you as you accept that, things will get much easier for you. You are you, mama of your own baby only, and that is it.

Having no experience with gentle parenting doesn't make someone inferior to you, because AP isn't the only correct way to parent. Even having no experience with parenting doesn't make someone inferior, because there are many other ways to learn how to take care of children. You don't know what experience that person has had in the past with kids.

People don't need to "respect you" because they are new parents, haven't been a parent as long, or don't have as many kids. She has the right to an opinion, and her mama instincts are as valid as yours. Her advice may actually turn out to work; you don't know if you don't try, and you don't have to try. Her baby's age isn't the measurement of her worth as a parent, person or friend. Don't judge people's parenting skills based on how different they are from yours or how old their babies are. Those are the wrong things to look at.

I have no problem telling my friends "You should pick up your baby when he cries." I have no problem defending my parenting to them or even changing it because of their honest critique. My best friend has only one child, who is only 1, and yet I still value her opinions. I'm not superior to her. I've raised two children to the age of her child, but I haven't raised HER child. Maybe she has learned some tricks/tips that I haven't in her experience with her child! THAT is what respect is about. We both can speak about what we do or recommend, because we both respect each other's differences.

I've met moms who CIO guilt-free. I couldn't. I'm happy to say I don't know what you're talking about when it comes to a difference in satisfaction. Even moms who let their kids CIO still know how to soothe their babies. Some babies are soothed by fussing for a few minutes before bedtime. That's not a critique of their parents; it's just a character trait of the babies. I can't look at my friend's baby, who likes to sleep alone, then look at my toddler, who likes to sleep with me, and feel secretly and sneakily superior because of my kid's sleep preference. How silly!

Having the baby fit into your life, rather than letting your world revolve around the baby, doesn't mean you consider it an inconvenience to have a baby. It means you've already created the environment you want to raise your baby in and you think altering it is wrong. Everyone has a different perspective on what the best way to parent is. That someone's is not the same as yours doesn't mean they have selfish motives or are inferior.

Reading your posts, you sound more judgmental than the people you say are judging you. You have expressed a feeling of superiority twice, and the comment you made about your friend needing to respect you is basically suggesting your own superiority a third time. You are judging people based on individual aspects of their parenting, their kids' ages, and things that they say which you assume to mean a certain thing, rather than looking at the whole picture of their parenting which isn't inferior just because it's not AP.

This needs to be said again:

*You are not superior.* As soon as you accept that, you will feel less judged, less criticized, and much more comfortable around other parents. Try to just take people for who they are, the same way you would your kids. Stop worrying about if they are right or wrong, different or the same, better or worse than you. It's like another poster said, you're just looking in the mirror when you project that attitude into the world, and it comes right back to you.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

My sense of superiority went out the window when I had my second child







it was a humbling experience and soon stripped me of AP extremism.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Such wonderful ideas and thoughts on this.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alittlesandy*
> 
> I think the thing that makes me sad about many AP parents is I often believe they enjoy being superior so much that they almost don't want AP to become mainstream. To win people over, you can't act superior. You have to begin by accepting that all parents love and care about their children, and that all babies are different.


I think there is a bit of truth in this.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mammal_mama*
> 
> So maybe as one other poster mentioned, you shouldn't see your previous openness as a mistake, but more as a learning experience. Everything ends up unfolding in the way that it should...it's just our job to learn to enjoy the unfolding.


Worth repeating.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> 
> My sense of superiority went out the window when I had my second child
> 
> ...


OMG - I was just about to post just this. Actually, I wasn't AP at all with my first, but boy was I sure confident that I knew everything about parenting, now that I was one. My second child made me eat humble pie - and I think that was a great thing. Because now, quite often I hear a remark and even if I do not do XYZ at all or ever considered it, my first thought usually is "interesting, maybe that works well for them." Because now with two different kids, I realize I know two different ways, but that's only 2 out of 6.5 billion possibilities.


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## MOMYS (Nov 5, 2008)

I see a lot of judging in the AP circles. I see a lot of mainstream-bashing. I see it way more on AP forums than I see AP bashing on mainstream forums. Maybe because AP isn't the norm? I don't know. I think it is the nature of people to judge.

My eldest is 13. I am kind of AP, but not hard-core. It works for us. My kids are very important, so are their feelings and their emotions, but life doesn't and cannot revolve around them all the time. I have strong, well-rounded, confident children - all 7 of them. It obviously works for us.

People rarely ask us about parenting philosophies and I don't offer info unless someone asks. by doing so I would certainly appear superior, since I think I know better than them. When people do ask us, I tell them what worked for us and for our individual children, because each child is different and each one has different needs. I certainly have never come across people I don't know very, very well asking me about CIO, or where I sit in the car or anything. I've let a baby cry in the car because I was driving and couldn't stop to comfort them. Said baby is fine  

Different things work for different people. I think that when we constantly feel judged, it might be good to step back and see if we are not looking through our own judgemental glasses that skew our own view.


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## physmom (Jun 15, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mammal_mama*
> 
> I had to smile about the comment that "the proof is in the pudding"...mainly because mine are now eleven and six and some folks still think we've seriously messed up.










I hear you! Honestly, I think DD's probably scared people off of AP...









We didn't start off that AP. DD slept the first 4 months of her life in a crib (yes, in our room, no CIO) but we were really trying to avoid co-sleeping because the logistics in our super tiny apt in our full-sized bed (with two above-average sized adults) was pretty daunting! Yeah, the thing is, DD is the type of kid who is the poster child for a kid that should be APed. She wanted to cosleep, to be held, to nurse ALL DAY LONG. But that also translated into a lot of fussiness around relatives, a lot of separation anxiety, and difficulty dealing with transitions. When DD was 2 and we were visiting my parents they were SCARED to babysitter her.

So we have long endured comments about how extended nursing was causing her behavior, how cosleeping was making her dependent on us, how she was so demanding because we responded to her needs too quickly. My parents always mean well and I know they saw her behavior and wanted to "fix" her so I just did the smile and nod approach. I can't really say what caused her behavior initially but I know for sure not doing the AP stuff didn't help either! Trust me we've tried just about everything out there it feels like some days. So I guess we're not very good proof right here*.









I DO think non-AP parents love their kids just as much. My parents (dad and stepmom) aren't AP by any stretch of the imagination and I have no doubt that they love me and my DD just as much as I love DD. My best friend is about as mainstream as you can get and she's a wonderful mother who cares deeply about her kids. Heck, she's been willing to stay-at-home with them and put off her career (even though she wants to work again) much longer than me. She's made a lot more sacrifices to have a bigger family and more kids that we haven't been willing to make. We both love our kids very, very much but in the end we're doing what's right for OUR families and OUR kids. Do I think her parenting techniques would work for DD (especially as an infant)? Probably not, but I can't say what I did with DD would've worked for her kids either. DD has a lot of the same flaws and strengths as DH and myself so biologically we're better equipped to deal with her personality than my best friend would be but on the other side the same goes for her and her DH's kids. Oh, and, BTW, her kids are old than mine.









As to the question of how to deal with criticism. I think it totally depends on who's asking and in what tone of voice. Some friends/family members just aren't worth it when it comes to arguing with them. I have an aunt who was very upset because her DIL "kept nursing her 6 week old every timed he cried and he is going to be spoiled!". I just ignored it because it wasn't my battle. I don't see her too often and as long as she wasn't harassing her DIL (and I don't think she was) about it, it just came down to a matter of opinion. Now, when it comes to my own parents and in the in-laws we're pretty clear about our differences in beliefs because they do watch DD often and we want them to respect our beliefs. So, yeah, sometimes that means we have to explain what we want done and why. Sure, it can be REALLY frustrating at times but we're adults who care about each other and want what's best for DD so that in and of itself goes a long ways!

* I will add, though, that her behavior has since significantly improved but I feel that has a lot more to do with her having a more stable environment (we were moving and traveling extensively) and just getting older in general.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

As far as the proof is in the pudding, I think it's a lame reason to pick up a crying baby -- because you hope the child will eventually be perfect and prove you right.

I picked up my crying babies because I felt it was the right thing to do.

One of my kids has special needs, and is sometimes "the weird kid." Extended family have even questioned if our parenting choices CAUSED her special needs (she has autism). My other child is sometimes wonderful and impressive, and sometimes moody and difficult. She's a 13 year old girl, and pretty normal. APing and GD and extending BFing and all the rest of it didn't stop puberty or make mood swings easy to live with.

Overall, my kids are fabulous and people who know them well think I've done a good job. To strangers, sometimes I look like a great mom and sometimes I don't. If you have people in your family waiting for your child to act like a brat so that they will know that you were wrong in your parenting, there's a really good chance that at some point your child will live up to that. Most kids do, at least for a few minutes when they are tired.

It is a completely unreasonable expectation to put on a child to be perfect so that other people will know that you are OK as a mother. That's just too much pressure.

And APing doesn't come with a money back guarantee. Your child is still a human, and as such, will most likely do things that drive you bonkers or embarrass you from time to time.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *physmom*
> 
> So we have long endured comments about how extended nursing was causing her behavior, how cosleeping was making her dependent on us, how she was so demanding because we responded to her needs too quickly. My parents always mean well and I know they saw her behavior and wanted to "fix" her so I just did the smile and nod approach. I can't really say what caused her behavior initially but I know for sure not doing the AP stuff didn't help either! Trust me we've tried just about everything out there it feels like some days. So I guess we're not very good proof right here*.
> 
> ...


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## Katie T (Nov 8, 2008)

I agree with thick skin. I didn't read but the first 2 threads on here but lately I have had a friend tell me that I am smothering my kids (I am not I am just listening to them and not just letting them bawl and raise themselves). It has been a continuing conversation about it the last couple weeks. I don't know what got her started but she was telling me what her DH thought of my parenting today and I simply said that he doesn't even "get" attachment parenting so can't comment. I usually just ignore but when they are your best friend it is hard.

I too don't agree with how others raise their kids but hold my tough because it is not my business. I wish they would show the same respect and do the same.


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## lemonapple (Aug 19, 2008)

Interesting thread.

I just have to add that I find the most criticism and judgement in AP parents. Not that I don't find mainstream parents to be questioning of my parenting decisions, it's just that they're way less vocal, superior-acting, extremist, about where we differ on the parenting sphere. I find that mainstream parents are WAY more open-minded to some AP ideas than most people give them credit. Yes, the friendly mom I spoke to at the park about cosleeping might just go home and continue practicing CIO with her baby, but she listened to my ideas/philosophies on the subject and she MIGHT make some small adjustment in her own parenting that we'd hardly notice. Or maybe she'll make no difference, but it's rare that I'll get such a sense of judgement as I might get from an AP parent about, say, stroller usage.

I personally think it's ridiculous to ride in the back seat of your car with your child because the child doesn't like the car. And, I've been judged on THAT particular issue by AP mothers too many times to count. I haven't had a car for a year and a half, but whenever we owned one, I sometimes had to let ds cry in his carseat because I did not have the luxury of having someone chauffer me about. That doesn't make me less of a parent...it's just a reality for my family, HOWEVER, it's come up as criticism and judgement among AP mothers more times than would seem reasonable! (just to pick a particular thing of judgement)

I think that if we want gentle parenting practices to become mainstream, then you absolutely MUST let go of the extremism. It can never become a parenting style that welcomes everyone if we only approve of mothers who stay at home with their children, use cloth diapers, hate strollers, never use CIO, cosleep, BF, practice child-led weaning, ride in the back of cars with their children, and never ever allow their children to cry (to name a FEW of the things it seems you must do to gain respect among AP folks).

And, to give a bit of info about myself, I absolutely DO follow most of the extremist ideas found in AP, we also don't discipline, or restrict food choice in any way, we don't have rules, we don't have bedtimes, or schedules, or naptimes, or much at all in the way of parental authoritarianism. And, still, I find there is more acceptance of these ideas among those labeled 'mainstream'.


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## Tonia Starr (May 14, 2011)

Ya know.....people STILL to this day have comments to make about my parenting style. And I have been doing it this way for a DECADE now. My ten yr old is a super independent, high honor roll, think-for-himself child. Obviously the breastfeeding and co-sleeping didnt warp him. lol I think it seems that the more kids you have, the HARDER AP appears to those who do not practice it. From the outside it looks like its sooooomuch work to do such thing as beasfeed on demand or wear a baby.....but I have babysat for babies who were formula fed and boy can I tell ya, IMO....AP makes life somuch easier! My boys are all well rounded, well mannered, balanced children. You would think that wod speak for itself. But some people need to have something to criticise I guess. I otice often the person critiquing my parentinstyle seems to feel threwatened, as if my sole purpose in life is to mak her/him feel like a bad parent in comparison...... I dunno. I just live my life on heart instinct.


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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

I don't really give the time of day to people who want to critique my parenting. I'm doing what I'm doing for good reasons, and it's not open for debate or discussion so why let them feel like they get a say? I guess I'd rather be happily oblivious to the judgy stares and snide comments than feel defensive all the time. People who make comments usually get a chipper, "This is what works for us! Isn't it amazing how well they're turning out? We couldn't be prouder of them" with a huge smile. It's harder for someone to criticize your mothering if your kids are happy and healthy and you seem utterly confident in your choices.

Taking people's comments at face value, instead of letting their sarcasm affect you as they intended, works well too. I'm kind of mischievous though and I enjoy making rude people feel flustered (because rude people deserve to be flustered IMO).








"Your baby is seven months and *still* nursing? I don't know why you martyr yourself. Give her baby food already!"








: "I know, isn't it great? I'm so glad she's still getting all those antibodies in my milk. She's not interested in solids yet which is fine with me--I find nursing so much more convenient anyway."








: ...

Once you decide to stop noticing what other people think about your parenting, you'll feel a lot less judged. And it makes you less judgmental in the long run, because you realize that *their* choices don't affect *you*.


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## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lemonapple*
> 
> Interesting thread.
> 
> ...


If "Attachment Parenting" style of parenting is not a checklist, then *what* makes someone "AP"?

Tale of 2 hypothetical children: Baby A--loves to be held, content in the sling for hours. Sleeps snuggled with mommy. Breastfeeding is easy and mom stays home. She has the support of her (well-paid) husband. Everything natural and organic. Cloth diapered.

Baby B--prefers to explore or would rather be in the swing. Protests at the idea of co-sleeping--"put me in my crib", baby would say if she could speak. When in the crib, she will fuss a minute or two then goes to sleep. Mom had issues or poor support in the beginning--or daddy said that he'd help with night feedings--so baby is on formula. Mommy or whoever is giving the bottle snuggles her and makes it a special time. Due to financial issues or whatever, mom works. They cannot afford everything natural and organic. Use disposable diapers because they could not afford the initial layout for cloth.

If Baby B was parented like Baby A...Baby B would be impossible, and vice versa. Both babies are getting their (differing) needs met...but a "hardcore AP" mom would probably deride Baby B's mom as "mainstream". Can Baby B's mom consider herself AP?


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

I find that I am more judged by other AP mums then I am by mainstream mums. Mainstream mums dont tend to think much of how I parent my kids. They may think ex breastfeeding or CDing is odd.

But some AP mums....wow. I am never going to be crunchy enough. "Oh you homeschool? How nice. We unschool. Its proven to be so much better for kids development. I just thew all those nasty textbooks out."

(Real convo).


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

I haven't read through all the threads, but I do remember feeling this way OP when my son was a baby much more than I do now. I think part of it is that I have more friends who aren't necessarily AP, but not totally mainstream, and the other part is I am definitely more comfortable with my choices and confident that I have made the right choices. Also, I think people judge a little less when you have an older toddler/preschool age child than they do in the baby stage. Personally, I think a lot of the judging that goes on is actually in response to the person's own lack of confidence in their own parenting style and/or guilt. I think most parents who leave their baby to cry want to be told it is the right thing to do...because, it definitely is the *easy* thing to do. They want to be supported in that, and when they see someone doing something differently, I think it can be really threatening even if you're not judging them or saying anything negative to them about their choices. That is my opinion, in hindsight, at least. Also, my son is three now and everyone around who judged so harshly his first two years can see that he is confident, attached and independent, respectful, and kind. A lot of my friends who didn't AP can't say the same. Some of them have kids who are downright mean. Not all. But some. It does get easier.


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## dauphinette (Nov 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alittlesandy*
> 
> I think the thing that makes me sad about many AP parents is I often believe they enjoy being superior so much that they almost don't want AP to become mainstream. To win people over, you can't act superior. You have to begin by accepting that all parents love and care about their children, and that all babies are different.


You couldn't really mean that? It seems like such a negative outlook towards "many" AP parents...


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama*
> 
> I think most parents who leave their baby to cry want to be told it is the right thing to do...because, it definitely is the *easy* thing to do.
> 
> .... Also, my son is three now and everyone around who judged so harshly his first two years can see that he is confident, attached and independent, respectful, and kind. A lot of my friends who didn't AP can't say the same.


I don't think that crying it out is easy for most parents. I think caring for a baby is a lot of work, no matter what your philosophy. There really isn't an easy option. I suspect that many parents who cry it out do so because they feel it is the best thing to do.

I, personally, think that APing is easier than the alternative. For me, it was easier to *just nurse* my babies than complicate things by watching a clock, and keeping track of things like bottles and pacifiers. I found carrying my babies in a sling to be easier than lugging around tons of baby equipement.

And APing really, truly isn't a recipe to get your kid to turn out a certain way. Your next child could be very different than your first. One of my kids has special needs and as part of the has an anxiety disorder. She was never left to cry, to BF until she weaned herself, she's only known GD, but she came into this world wired to find it scarier than most people do. When she was 3, people looked at her as an example of why AP is a bad idea. They felt that always being tended to had caused her to be the way she is. She was later dx'ed as being on the autism spectrum.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> I don't think that crying it out is easy for most parents. I think caring for a baby is a lot of work, no matter what your philosophy. There really isn't an easy option. I suspect that many parents who cry it out do so because they feel it is the best thing to do.
> 
> ...


Are you kidding me? All of my friends whose kids cried it out were sleeping through the night within a week. Most of them did it by six months old. On the other hand, most of my AP minded friends were totally sleep deprived into the second and third year. I call a baby who sleeps "easy." I also call sticking a bottle in a kid's mouth a lot easier than suffering through mastitis TEN times and struggling for a month to get a preemie to latch while pumping and trying to breastfeed around the clock.

And, no AP isn't a recipe for a kid to turn out a certain way, BUT, kids who have parents who AP tend to have a lot more empathy and confidence than kids whose parents do not. Meeting a child's needs isn't about a kid turning out a certain way, but it certainly is nice that it has its benefits. I am no stranger to SN either. My son actually was diagnosed with an ASD as well. That diagnosis will very likely be lifted as soon as we go back to the developmental ped, but I "get" the differences in kids with SN too. We have certainly had many struggles related to my son's SN, behaviorally, sensory, and otherwise. And yes, when my son was two, he also seemed like a great example of why AP is a bad idea, though at three, it is a totally different story. I see AP as being totally appropriate and helpful to all kids. People who were foolish and thoughtless enough to think that APing your daughter was the reason for her special needs (or my son's) wouldn't be in my circle of friends.

Having read through some of the other posts now, it seems like you're really up in arms over people being happy that AP produced a certain outcome. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with being happy that APing does have wonderful benefits for parents and children and does shape and mold who they are, just as trauma, abuse, not having needs met, etc. shapes who a child becomes.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama*
> 
> Are you kidding me? All of my friends whose kids cried it out were sleeping through the night within a week. Most of them did it by six months old. On the other hand, most of my AP minded friends were totally sleep deprived into the second and third year. I call a baby who sleeps "easy." I also call sticking a bottle in a kid's mouth a lot easier than suffering through mastitis TEN times and struggling for a month to get a preemie to latch while pumping and trying to breastfeed around the clock.
> 
> ...


Um my good friend finally tried CIO last month (with her 16mo) because she's got 3 kids, one with ASD and she was so sleep deprived she could hardly function. He cried, every night, for 2.5 HOURS. Eventually by the end of the week it was down to 15mins, then the following week began with 3 hours again and they gave up. It is "easy" once it HAS worked with a baby it works for. For most parents, they do it because they think it's the "right" thing, and they sit outside the baby's room sobbing as they listen to the crying. No-one i know who CIO (and the majority of my mom friends did) found it easy. Those for whom it worked quickly think it worthwhile, but not easy. Even CIOd babies wake in the night, sometimes often.

I had to put DD1 on FF at 7 months old. I can assure you getting up, holding a crying child while you take a bottle of sterile water from the fridge, add formula and then warm to the right temp at 3am is not easier than rolling over and offering a nipple. My mastitis was over in 3 days (i never needed anti'b's luckily), my FFing went on for 5 months. Yes, it was probably a lot harder for you to BF a preemie in the circumstances you describe, but it's not apples and apples is it? It might have been easier that month to FF (if you weren't constantly worrying about the LO's health as FF preemie-moms often are) but overall you would still have had all the hard physical work of washing sterilising and preparing those bottles for a year, plus the additional costs.

I'm not saying AP is easier, just that CIO and FF are not necessarily easier either. So much depends on the individual child and family.

PS - i have a very HN DD1 who did NOT respond "as promised" to AP and GD and a much mellower DD2 who, so far, really really does! I am still AP/GD, but it sure isn't making my DD1 into one of those "GD poster child" kids i read so much about here at MDC!


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama*
> Having read through some of the other posts now, it seems like you're really up in arms over people being happy that AP produced a certain outcome.


I'm not up in arms. I just disagree.

"I did X so my child is Y" is faulty logic. You could do X again with another child and that child could be Z. None of us determine what our children are like.

I'm in a different place with this that you. I have teenagers and I'm around other teenagers. While I still believe that BF, GD, etc., are ideal, I also see that humans come into the world with their own head and heart, and that they have many, many experiences we do not control that effect them. Often, they go through VERY difficult periods. Of course the best we can do is the best we can do, but to believe that we can determine what sort of human being another becomes is just our ego.

Both my kids are amazing people, but I let them take the credit for that. Although I made it through the AP checklist as a mother, there are many moments I would love to be able to do-over, decisions I made that I can now with hindsight see weren't the best. I haven't been the perfect mom.

And even though they are both amazing people, they've both gone through phases where they seemed kinda screwed up. Growing up is difficult. They aren't perfect.

And all of that is OK.

It's also OK that other moms aren't perfect, even when their imperfections are different from my own. And it OK that other kids aren't perfect, even when their failings come in different areas than my kids'. Once I let go of outcomes and just did what felt right to me each day, ALL judgments dropped. It was like magic.

I think the natural outcome of "I did X so my child is Y" is judging others and ourselves. And it isn't true anyway.


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

Linda, your DD sounds identical to mine.

I really like this quote:

* to believe that we can determine what sort of human being another becomes is just our ego. *

I breastfed, coslept and wore my oldest girl. She was the typical...back to sleep, cosleeper child. and she has ASD, anxiety and relates to the world in such a different mannar then anyone else.

My youngest girl, I coudlnt breastfeed, she coudlnt lay on her back, she coudlnt sleep in my bed, she couldnt be worn.

And she is the most well rounded, secure, loving, religious child I have ever met in my life. She lights up the world. And I did the exact opposite with her then my oldest girl.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoBecGo*
> 
> I had to put DD1 on FF at 7 months old. I can assure you getting up, holding a crying child while you take a bottle of sterile water from the fridge, add formula and then warm to the right temp at 3am is not easier than rolling over and offering a nipple. My mastitis was over in 3 days (i never needed anti'b's luckily), my FFing went on for 5 months. Yes, it was probably a lot harder for you to BF a preemie in the circumstances you describe, but it's not apples and apples is it? It might have been easier that month to FF (if you weren't constantly worrying about the LO's health as FF preemie-moms often are) but overall you would still have had all the hard physical work of washing sterilising and preparing those bottles for a year, plus the additional costs.
> 
> I'm not saying AP is easier, just that CIO and FF are not necessarily easier either. So much depends on the individual child and family.


ha. Said by someone who never needed antibiotics for mastitis, had it once, and didn't work around the clock to feed a preemie. I've done short term foster care and have done the bottle in the middle of the night thing. 100000 times easier than what I went through with DS. And sorry, if CIO is so hard for people, why do they do it? Because, then they get to sleep. The "pay-off" makes their lives a lot easier. I don't doubt that people are upset with their kids crying and that is "hard" for them in the moment, but it is also the easy way out. And most of their kids then sleep. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule. FWIW, I don't think FF is un-AP anyhow. Had I had to go to any greater lengths than I did with my son to actually BF him, I would have chosen formula and considered that the AP thing to do because it would be meeting my personal mental health needs and his need for a healthy mama. If I have a second who is as challenging as he was, I am sure I will have to go that route as there will be no possible way to maintain stability for two kids while going through all that.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> to believe that we can determine what sort of human being another becomes is just our ego.


A) I think how you are framing that is snarky, condescending, and insulting and B). I disagree with you. No, we're not going to determine who are kids become. If that were true, every kid in a family parented the same way way would turn out the same. Nature vs. nurture debate. But, we do have a *huge* impact on who our children become based on how we treat them and how we parent them. To deny that just seems silly.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama*
> 
> *ha. Said by someone who never needed antibiotics for mastitis, had it once, and didn't work around the clock to feed a preemie*. I've done short term foster care and have done the bottle in the middle of the night thing. 100000 times easier than what I went through with DS. And sorry, if CIO is so hard for people, why do they do it? Because, then they get to sleep. The "pay-off" makes their lives a lot easier. I don't doubt that people are upset with their kids crying and that is "hard" for them in the moment, but it is also the easy way out. And most of their kids then sleep. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule. FWIW, I don't think FF is un-AP anyhow. Had I had to go to any greater lengths than I did with my son to actually BF him, I would have chosen formula and considered that the AP thing to do because it would be meeting my personal mental health needs and his need for a healthy mama. If I have a second who is as challenging as he was, I am sure I will have to go that route as there will be no possible way to maintain stability for two kids while going through all that.


And i suppose the bolded is not intended to be snarky condescending or insulting? I have had hard things happen to me. They might not be the identical hard things that happened to you, but that doesn't invalidate my right to an opinion. I'm sorry you believe CIO is the easy way out. They do it because they believe it is the right thing to do for their child - you think getting up and breastfeeding was super hard with your preemie, but you did it because you thought it was the right thing to do (to you). Just because actions vary in parenting it doesn't necessarily follow that motives do. I vaccinate because i love my child, and i know a LOT of parents who don't vaccinate because they love their child. I don't CIO because i love my child. I know a lot of parents who do CIO because they love their child.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I think we can make some difference as far as confidence and that kind of thing goes, but I don't think we have any control over personality, and a lot of things people try to control seem to me to be just plain personality traits.

I have two kids I did all the same things with, and I had them spaced far apart so I held the little one all the time and co-slept and all that just as with the older one, and they are so different it's amazing. The older one is a high needs kid and was an awful sleeper, and is just plain intense and tiring. The little one always slept well, always seems happy, and is just plain easy. Nothing I did made the older one more challenging or the younger one easy. They just are who they are. I hope they are both the most confident and happiest people their innate personalities allow them to be, though.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama* 

ha. Said by someone who never needed antibiotics for mastitis, had it once, and didn't work around the clock to feed a preemie. I've done short term foster care and have done the bottle in the middle of the night thing. 100000 times easier than what I went through with DS. And sorry, if CIO is so hard for people, why do they do it? Because, then they get to sleep. The "pay-off" makes their lives a lot easier. I don't doubt that people are upset with their kids crying and that is "hard" for them in the moment, but it is also the easy way out. And most of their kids then sleep. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule. FWIW, I don't think FF is un-AP anyhow. Had I had to go to any greater lengths than I did with my son to actually BF him, I would have chosen formula and considered that the AP thing to do because it would be meeting my personal mental health needs and his need for a healthy mama. If I have a second who is as challenging as he was, I am sure I will have to go that route as there will be no possible way to maintain stability for two kids while going through all that.

So, FF would have been easier for you. However, the statement you were responding to was: "FF is not necessarily easier either". And you know what? It's not. That you had a difficult time BFing doesn't mean no FF parents have a difficult time; it doesn't mean FF is easier for everyone or is always easier. And I HAVE had to take antibiotics for mastitis, more than once. FF parents can run into issues where their babies don't like the nipples or are allergic to FF, or even where they simply cannot afford the formula. And maybe they chose to BF, but couldn't, and now they have to buy formula they can't afford or that their kid vomits up. As for the reasons people do CIO, maybe the alternatives were just as hard for them, maybe it's their last resort, maybe they're sleep deprived with dark circles and at the end of their rope, maybe their mom or pediatrician recommended it, maybe they think sleep training is necessary. But by no means is it easy; I don't know any parents who CIO and thought it was easy.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

I agree that none of us determine what our children are like, as Linda says, but also that we can influence who they become, as APToddlerMama says. We can't control it, but we can do our best to be positive influences. But there is no telling what we've done that made our children turn out a certain way, be it positive or negative, and no telling how our children would have turned out had we done it differently.

Because of that, it makes no sense to judge others who parent differently, especially if their children are doing fine. Non-AP parents love their kids just as much, and even AP parents can lack empathy and confidence (as is evident from comments on this thread, both ones expressing judgement and ones expressing frustration over being judged) Non-AP parents have difficulty; non-AP methods come with obstacles too.

To claim that AP, or even non-AP, produces a certain outcome is a fallacy; there's no proof a different method would not have the same results or that even that it was your parenting which made your child the lovely person he or she is. Maybe they were just born lovely. We're always so quick to applaud our parenting when our children turn out well, but when they rob convenience stores, it couldn't possibly have been our parenting because we did everything right... Obviously it's not just our parenting!


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> It is a completely unreasonable expectation to put on a child to be perfect so that other people will know that you are OK as a mother. That's just too much pressure.


Thank you for putting into words something that I think about a lot. This to me sums up one of the biggest paradoxes about parenting. You have to do what is best for your child because you think it will help them grow up successfully...BUT you also have to let go of expectations of who and what they are "supposed" to be and how that reflects on your parenting choices. It's tricky! My experience of parenting is that paradoxes and contradictions abound. Just when I think I have something figured out, things will change. Being a mom definitely forces me to soften up my ego, and I consider that a good thing.









In my experience, there are about a zillion choices and decisions that have to be made through pregnancy, birth & child rearing, and there doesn't seem to be any fool proof way to determine which path is best.

Is a parenting strategy good because it's "easy"? Seems reasonable...but sometimes there is no "easy" path. Or sometimes "easy" is just a code word for "cop out." But then again, sometimes "easy" means that things are aligning the way they should. It isn't always clear.

Is a parenting strategy good because it seems to produce the best outcome? Makes sense...certainly no one wants a bad outcome...but kids are works in progress & parenting requires constant adaptation to change. What seems like a "good" outcome at one point in time might reveal less positive consequences at another point, and vice versa.

Is a strategy good because it aligns with one's philosophical framework? Also makes sense...but a narrow fixation on ideology can kick you in the butt if reality doesn't measure up, which it often doesn't. Sometimes adherence to ideals is helpful, sometimes it's just a humbling moment waiting to happen.

Is to good because it's the only thing you *can* do, given your circumstances, the temperament of your child, and other factors? I would guess that many of us find ourselves in this boat at least some of the time.

The only thing that seems clear to me in this conversation is that parenting is not "one size fits all" and we can all learn a lot from each other...or at least have some good company on the journey...if we're willing to listen & stay open.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> I have teenagers and I'm around other teenagers. While I still believe that BF, GD, etc., are ideal, I also see that humans come into the world with their own head and heart, and that they have many, many experiences we do not control that effect them. Often, they go through VERY difficult periods. Of course the best we can do is the best we can do, but to believe that we can determine what sort of human being another becomes is just our ego.
> 
> ...


This. Well said.

I think ds1 is an amazing young man, and I've heard the same from many other people in my life. When he was little, I felt like a fabulous mom. Looking back...not so much. I wasn't terrible, but I really was (and am) just another mom fumbling my way through and trying to figure out what worked/works. Many things that were beneficial to ds1 didn't work with dd1. DS2 is yet another different ballgame. DD2 is seriously attention intensive (although sweeter than sweet and just incredibly cute), and would have done better with the younger, more patient me. They're all different. Personally, I think they're all amazing, but there's very little likelihood that dd1 or ds2 will ever be anything like ds1. They're just totally different people...and his social gifts, self-confidence, etc. weren't because of how he was parented, as much I'd like to believe they were. (I do still sometimes pat myself on the back for navigating the breakdown of my marriage to his dad with as little fallout for him as possible....but even that ties a lot into his own innate temperament and personality.) One of the most wonderful young men I know had really quite crappy parenting, but he's still turning out to be a sweetheart.

It's actually all a little depressing sometimes, but it's the opposite at other times...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Oh...also wanted to mention that AP is easier for me than the alternative, too. Sitting outside my child's door and listening them CIO would be brutal. Watching dh's friend go through it made me want to cry for her. She was doing it, because she believed it was right, not because it was easy. (That boy is now...seven, I believe, and he seems quite happy and well-adjusted and all that.)

And, I once babysat my oldest nephew, who was formula fed. OMG - I'd rather go through all the hassles of being tied down to a nursing baby, cracked infected nipples, muscle aches from holding one position, etc. etc. than the hassle of having to fix even one bottle of formula while a hungry baby screams in my ear. What a nightmare! After that, I really, really feel for women who have to go the formula route, because it's a huge PITA.


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## lemonapple (Aug 19, 2008)

Lol! I have to agree about the formula! I babysat a little boy who used formula and there's nothing worse than listening to a hungry baby scream while you fix up a bottle! I had so much sympathy for this Mama!


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## nktigger99 (May 20, 2010)

Honestly...I have always felt much more judged by fellow AP parents for not being AP enough....


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## dovey (May 23, 2005)

Why are so many upset with the OP? She was saying that SHE felt attacked by the person with the 3 month old. She wasn't attacking someone else's parenting to their face!

As mothers, of course we are going to have opinions about the best way to parent our children. It's okay to have a different opinion. It's okay to think that another parent is doing something wrong.

I think that the trouble comes in when we feel the need to point out other mama's wrongs to the mamas themselves in a superior way. Or when we talk to like minded people in our community about how horribly so and so is parenting.

But having opinions/judgements about parenting techniques? How can we discuss these ideas with different types of folks without attacking or getting offended?


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

I was offended by her insistance that she felt superior to this other mum b/c that mums kid was only 3 months old and her kids was over 17 months old.

Do you not feel that it is disengenious to say "I feel judged by a mum whom I have superior parenting expereince to.?"

I gave her a bit of advice. Dont bother feeling superior. You have alot of parenting left to do.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dovey*
> 
> Why are so many upset with the OP? She was saying that SHE felt attacked by the person with the 3 month old. She wasn't attacking someone else's parenting to their face!


Did you read the thread? She wasn't attacked. She felt judged when another parent stated they did things differently. She sent emails explaining why her way is best.

None of that is appropriate.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

The OP made several comments indicating that she felt superior to other parents, the very same ones she felt had judged her [who, as it turns out, were only explaining how and why they do it differently, rather than actually attacking her]. She felt judged and attacked by people who seemingly were doing no such thing, then turned around and judged/attacked them behind their backs here and in emails to them.

I agree: inappropriate.

If she had just stated how she felt, rather than repeatedly expressing a sense of superiority, I think the collective response would have been gentler.

I, too, have been judged as much, if not more, by AP moms than by non-AP moms.


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## AttunedMama (Jan 19, 2011)

nm. I was way late on this thread.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> It is a completely unreasonable expectation to put on a child to be perfect so that other people will know that you are OK as a mother. That's just too much pressure.


I just read over this today and was struck once again by how profound this statement is. I feel that others judge me as a mother based on my child, and I am guilty of doing this to myself as well. I am going to put this up on my refridgerator to remind me that my child is the wrong measuring stick for my worth as a mother, both for his sake and for mine.


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moonfirefaery*
> 
> I just read over this today and was struck once again by how profound this statement is. I feel that others judge me as a mother based on my child, and I am guilty of doing this to myself as well. I am going to put this up on my refridgerator *to remind me that my child is the wrong measuring stick for my worth as a mother, both for his sake and for mine.*


*Yes. This. A thousand times.*


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## lunarlady (Jan 4, 2010)

In response to the OP's original question: when friends, family, or other lovely people care to critique the way I parent, I usually go for ome of the following choices: I'm too lazy, I'm weird, or I'm a masochist.

Example: "Shouldn't you wean her already?". "Too much effort. It's easier to just carry on like we are."

"Arn't cloth diapers a PITA?". "I hate shopping more than I hate washing out poop."

"If you just let her cry a few times at night, she will learn to sleep by herself.". "I'm an insomniac anyway. I like the company. Besides, sleep is overrated."

If that fails, I go for humor.

"You should try CIO, it worked great for us.". "Well, I did once. She cried for 10 minutes, but I cried for three hours. Made me look like Night of the Living Dead the next day to boot. Just not worth it for us."

"Doesn't co-sleeping, you know, ruin your sex life?" "Nah, I can't lay down for ten minutes without falling asleep, so any living we do must be done standing up."

I guess I am sort of weird in that I don't know or care if AP is the best way to parent. All I know is it is the best way for me to parent. If my good friend has a different way of doing things that works for her, so be it. As a teacher I can tell you that the vast majority of kids raised with love turn out great, no matter what "method" was used by their families. So there are no "superior" parents or ways of raising kids. Each family has to find a way that works for them so that kids can live, love, grow and learn.


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Well, rule number one is knowing what you can discuss with whom. I don't complain about lack of sleep or discuss ways to continue to have a sex life while bedsharing with the baby with those who believe babies belong in their own bedroom in a crib.  I ask how to de-stink my diapers with other people who CD rather than even mention it to anyone who does not--unless they're interested. Similarly, I don't post much about my AP ways on FB or other places not AP friendly....unless someone's asking and it's a relevant answer.

I have friends--close friends--who do not know I've had two out of hospital births. I do not lie. They're not in town and I just didn't bring it up.

It took me a bit to learn this---I actually learned it on the subject of buying Gerber jars versus baby-led weaning/solids.

Rule number two is I don't argue/debate. I know why I do what I do and I'm confident I'm doing what's right for us....leads to the ability to easily respond to the school secretary's concern for my unvaccinated children with "well, it all depends on how you look at it" (she felt they were in danger from NOT being vaccinated, I'm opposite, and I can tell who's actually interested in more info and who's not. I choose to expend energy on those who actually want to be informed.)

Rule 3 is....see rule 2. Know why you do what you do. Develop the confidence that YOU know what is right for YOUR family. 

yeah....at baby #4, this is an easy post. Back at baby #2 I was right there with you.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

I finally caught back up with this thread! I hadn't been getting notifications, but just happened to notice that there've been many more responses since I last posted.

Reading through it, I suddenly realized what a positive, healing impact that social worker visit (mentioned in my first post) has had upon my personality -- namely my tendency to judge others and to love, love, love having opportunities to wax eloquent on my parenting and educational philosophies.

I am much less of a bore now.  Just recently we were at the dentist and the lady who was cleaning dd2's teeth was full of questions once she realized we homeschool (she found out about this due to her own question about school). She has two sons who are the same ages as my two daughters and she just kept asking and asking and asking about whether the girls are tested and yada yada.

I found myself just keeping replies to a polite minimum. Rather than wanting to draw attention or alarm, I felt much more inclined to make no waves and just tell her whatever she wanted to hear. Ditto with the questions I got from our children's minister this past Sunday about whether we use a curriculum and so on.

So maybe this was what it took for me to realize that silence is golden. 

Another positive effect is that I don't have any really, really close friendships anymore. I'm not sure if it's just because of the visit or because of other changes I've been going through...but I've realized how much time I used to spend with my so-called friends talking badly about other people. My current relationships are not that close and the conversations are therefore more positive and pleasant. Which, I'm discovering, leaves me in a much more pleasant frame of mind.

It's been very interesting to me realize that my prior extreme openness about what I thought and whatever we were doing has led to my current situation, which is actually very positive. So I honestly don't see any reason to regret saying too much to the "wrong" person. What I said has now freed me from that whole complexly icky relationship!

At this point, my only close relationships are with my husband and girls. I have so much more energy for them now, and I honestly don't care who agrees or disagrees with our lifestyle...or who "would" agree or disagree if they were close enough to see into it.


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## revolting (Sep 10, 2010)

The older my kids get, the less I feel like attachment parenting defines who I am as a parent. The more I feel like all of us parents are in this together, just fumbling along the best we can.


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## Calicara (May 19, 2011)

I am so glad you posted this, and that there are so many thoughtful responses. I am first-time mama who practices AP, and have felt like I had to defend myself just because my dh and I are doing things different from what the majority of our family and friends did. I'm nervous because we're going back home (Midwest) in a few days, and I know there will be judgement, which I try to block out, but sometimes it is frustrating. We didn't go into parenting thinking "We will practice AP", but rather, a friend recommended Dr. Sears' book, and upon reading, found that his ideas totally encompassed what seemed best and most natural to us. It felt good to have an "expert" outline suggestions that aligned with our beliefs.

The biggest critique I get is from co-sleeping. I told a friend the other day, whose daughter is around my daughter's age and has been sleeping in her own room in a crib since 4 weeks, that our daughter (8 months) has always slept with us, and never in a crib. To which I got no response. I'm sure she is dumbfounded, and probably attributing it to the fact that we live in California (ha! us crazy hippie liberals  The other one is CIO. For us, it just isn't something we want to do, and I wish people would respect that.

In all honesty, I know what we are doing is best for our daughter and works for us. But if I hear "She needs to learn to sleep on her own in a crib" one more time, I might lose my cool...


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## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

I'm at work so didn't read all the replies but just wanted to say I have gained a TON of perspective on this through some reading about how our culture judges mothers and motherhood. A lot of it was specific to working moms but a more general one that I remember is Perfect Madness. Once you start to dissect exactly how unreasonable the expectations are on parents in general and especially mothers, you don't feel so bad for not being super-mom. I've also started to realize just how randomly judgmental people are about parenting... I've gotten unsolicited parenting advice from cashiers at the grocery store, bus drivers, a bottle picker hanging around the recycling depot, etc. Everyone's a critic.

I am very blessed though that my own mom was pretty AP back in the 80s when it wasn't cool and she totally respects what we are doing. My in-laws have needed a little convincing at times and I don't think they agree with what we're doing but they're laid back about staying out of our business. I do advocate AP when I have the opportunity but I also understand that my personal choices may not be for everybody.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Calicara, back when we used to get together with my extended family for Thanksgiving and Christmas, I got a call after coming home from one such get-together. My mom let me know that they'd all been talking, because they were concerned that my then 9 1/2 month old baby had been so content to sit leaning against me on the floor the whole time. They'd determined that the "problem" was the fact that we did not use a crib or playpen.

Their consensus was that babies "needed" the discomfort of being stuck in a place that they wanted to get out of in order to be sufficiently motivated to learn to crawl, pull up on stuff, and eventually walk.

Never mind the fact that we'd raised, and were/are still raising, dd1 in the same attached way that we were/are raising dd2, and dd1 was taking her first independent steps at 9 1/2 months! No one seemed to remember that!

Well, needless to say, we didn't start sticking dd2 into undersirable locations in order to make her "mad" enough to develop. We simply didn't see her uniqueness as a problem!

We just kept lovin' her and responding to her communications, and she was walking independently by around 14 1/2 months.

Though I was really irritated by my relatives' comments at the time, I'm now able to laugh at the silly reasoning that some folks will use to try to get you to do whatever they want you to do!


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## Calicara (May 19, 2011)

Thanks for sharing, mammal_mama  I imagine a similar conversation will happen during/after our visit home, haha. I asked someone (who was questioning our sleep sharing) whether he preferred to sleep in a cage, and his response was "I'm not a baby. Baby's are supposed to sleep in cribs." Really? According to who? I try not to judge others, but have a low tolerance for such blind ignorance (not sure how else to describe it).


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## Chinaberry (Sep 20, 2010)

Hi Mamas, this has been an awesome conversation and I have learned a lot. Thanks!

My turn 

Rule #1: Nobody cares what I'm doing (in the esoteric microcosm of AP vs. whatever). Really. If I am being judged, that person wants control. They either want me to make the same choices they did because it validates their choices, or they're power trippers. So that's on them. If I'm just feeling judged, that's my feeling and it's my problem and I have to work it out. Am I actually judging myself, feeling not perfect enough? Did I make a choice I don't really believe in and I feel bad and regretful?

Rule #2: I don't care what you're doing! Love your kids, feed them and keep them safe. You decide for yourself the meanings of "love" and "safe." It took a series of enlightening and painful events for me to realize that I am wearing only my own comfy shoes - I don't know that other mama. Even if we're close, I don't have her kids, I don't have her life. I am absolutely incompetent to judge. Obviously avoiding the debate about whether I'm a more worthy human being than a cruel/ neglectful person.

It's easier with fewer people in my head. I'm working on living "to each her own," not just saying it. It's hard! But I believe we have more in common with other moms than difference.

So, in case it helps, I say this: "Because we choose to," "That is our choice," and of course... "Lovely bean dip we're having today!"

Mandatory disclaimer: It's a long trip down from the high horse; I still haven't made it. My judgment pops up when I'm feeling especially special. It's very disappointing, very educational.

More Love!


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chinaberry*
> 
> I'm working on living "to each her own," not just saying it. It's hard! But I believe we have more in common with other moms than difference.
> 
> ...


I find it easier and easier the older my kids get, and part of that I think is because I get more sleep! I get real time to myself! The sacrifices that I made when they were small, that many of you still make every day and night, are in the past for me.

It is so much easier to react with love and compassion to others when one's own needs are being consistently met rather than put on hold indefinently.


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## alittlesandy (Jan 20, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Calicara*
> 
> I asked someone (who was questioning our sleep sharing) whether he preferred to sleep in a cage


Why does there have to be judgement either way? What I don't understand about some of the AP parents I know is that in order to feel better about their own choices they have to attack "mainstream" choices. All parents do what they feel is best for their kids.

I don't like the implication that putting a baby in a crib is allowing them to sleep in a cage. I co-slept with my son until he was almost five months old and then he just couldn't tolerate being in the bed next to me. He kicked, punched, tried to crawl away, fretted, and tossed and turned. I didn't want to, but I put him in a crib in our room. I choose a crib because it had a good mattress and was a safe place. This was not at all convenient for me, as I was still nursing my son through the night and had to get him out of the crib and bring him back to the bed every time he nursed. However, it was best for my son, because he slept soundly in the crib, and not in the bed. He is now 27 months old and I STILL keep trying to get him to sleep in the bed with me, but he won't have any of it!

You don't have to justify your choices by belittling the choices of others.


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

I see judgement on both sides but I see it more online then in actual real life. I don't understand why the attacks or the my way is better then yours because its different. I am way more AP then mainstream but I am very much mainstream at the same time. ( i really hate having lablels on it) Where as DH is very much more mainstream then AP. We parent with what we feel is right for not only our child but also for the whole family.

So see comments like calling a crib a cage in a lot of ways comes off as almost offensive. When I hear cage my initial reaction is animals are in cages.

Bottom line in most cases it really doesn' t matter if a person is raised because there is a point in their lives where it no longer is about they were raised but how they chose to live their lives.


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## aHikaru (Apr 12, 2011)

I def feel your pain. My husband is stationed away from home and we only see him every 4-6 months and I recently found out his mother has been calling him complaining about how I am raising AE, he stood up for me, but I was pretty angry.

As far as attachment parenting goes, we sleep in the same room, share the same space and I only do activities we both can enjoy. I recently joined a holistic moms group and a Waldorf parent-toddler class, which may have ignited my MIL's own personal flame of disapproval, now I just ignore them.

Overall, I agree with everyone else and say "it works for us".


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## MamaMunchkin (Feb 3, 2011)

I know for myself, I found out about the so-called AP practices by chance, really - I can easily imagine myself doing non-AP things otherwise. Would that have made me a worse parent? I'm still the same person after all and I'm sure I would still love my children as much ...

Do try to keep an open mind, I guess - I know, easier said than done ...


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> "You have put alot of stock in your parenting style. However that isnt for everyone. And people do get upset if someone else criticizes their parenting."
> 
> ...


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## Calicara (May 19, 2011)

I am so sorry for the way the "crib=cage" comment came across, and perhaps should have included the context and offer the fact that I have a sarcastic sense of humor. I was using hyperbole when my brother-in-law (who is not a father, not that it matters) kept grilling us on why our baby slept with us. "Aren't you afraid you're going to roll over on her?" "Aren't you afraid she's going to have 'issues' since she 'needs' a parent to 'fall asleep'"? "Why do you do that?" A sleep-deprived and annoyed-that-I-even-have-to-justify-myself me: "Oh, I don't know, I guess she doesn't like to be caged. Would you like to sleep in a cage?" Truth be told: I am trying to get her to spend the first part of the night and naps in the crib, but she's not feeling it right now. I know enough in the past nine months (which I recognize isn't a lifetime, but seems like a long time, relatively speaking) that each child is different and each family has its own sets of needs and the last thing I want to do is judge others. Perhaps I just need to work on being more tactful when people drive me to my limit. AP jives with our own style and works for us. Something else that doesn't work for us works beautifully for someone else. And that's totally 100 % fine.

My initial comment was just preparing myself for how to react to being judged for my choices, which I am fairly certain is gonna happen when I visit my folks. I hate controversy (can't we all just get along?) but as a new parent I am realizing that you need to develop a thick skin if you are at all sensitive (I prefer the term "thoughtful") to begin with. Crib, bed, on the soft back of a flying unicorn: whichever way gives your kid the best sleep is the right choice for you, as far as I'm concerned. I never meant to come across as belittling someone else's choices; that goes against the very core of my being.


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## tillymonster (May 12, 2011)

Ok so here I am again, the big bad OP. I stopped reading this thread because I felt I was misunderstood, especially with the word "superior" which has been thrown around in some ridiculous ways. I was looking to commiserate and I didn't get much, did I? I am very confident in how I parent and really feel that ive made all the right choices. I don't think back and go "wish I would have listened to my gut" because I did the first time around. I was told how to parent my child by people who don't know much about my family, my child, me. They weren't saying "this is what I do", they were saying "what you do is WRONG". Luckily I'm smart enough not to listen, but at the end of the day, it hurts my feelings, for starters. To tell me I'm wrong to judge is hilarious, I don't judge, I don't give advice and now a days, I just don't say much. It makes me sad that I can't share scientific studies that show CIO as being damaging because I'm automatically attacking? They ask why I do what I do, so I tell them and I'm the bad guy? Huh? Are these studies totally biased? Maybe. But from what I read about Ferberized babies who grow up to have major issues makes me want to tell everyone I know!

So moral of the story? Don't start a thread about AP and not expect crazy debate. I really am not an extremist, I just like to talk about my life and thinks I'm passionate about openly and try and do what I think is right. Ugh...


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## tillymonster (May 12, 2011)

Ps: calicara and mammal_mama, I love your posts. Especially the fact they ignored your 9mo WALKING but had to say something about the other baby being content by your side? I get that a lot too, DD is shy and doesn't vocalize that much. SIL sees her crying and tells me she's so glad to see DD vocalizing. She was crying hysterically for me in her carseat at the time, and this was not a good thing or good vocalization in any way, shape, or form. I got her out of the seat asap but had to listen to SIL laugh about it. Yeah, it's soooo darned funny how I won't let her cry. Oui vey.

I also loved the "sleeping on the soft back of a flying unicorn". Will be using that one next time someone asks why I have a crib attached to my bed.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

tillymonster, I really identify with what you said about not wanting to wish, later, that you'd listened to your gut. Pretty early on, I realized that making mistakes as a mom was inevitable -- but I wanted them to at least be my mistakes. If we don't listen to ourselves, we run the risk of making a whole lot more mistakes 'cause we'll still make some of our own, plus we'll be making a whole lot of other people's mistakes, too.


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

yeah I feel like even in the "big city" there is a limit to how much some parents are willing to "sacrifice" their comfort for their children, I have yet to really come to grasp with this limit, I am often uncomfortable for my young son, because I know it is best for him, fexmp. CLW, nigh time nursing, not CIO and so on. And then random strangers will tell me I'm irresponsible for having my kid walk w/o shoes in the street or park, or someone called me "a careless parent" for letting him gnaw on a stick. i mean ppl are nuts! , truly, that my take on it, doesn't mean I'm going to be nuts too. March on, I say, to good parenting!


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## jasper28 (May 21, 2005)

I have not read all the replies, but I will add my $.02 in....

All of the 'early' parenting AP vs. mainstream judgements and 'stuff' really does lessen once your children are older. It is rare that someone will ask you if your 7 year old was breastfed. I think as new parents we tend to see differences when you are practicing a more 'ap' style parenting than trying to find similarities. I breastfed, was adamant against not CIO and still have all 4 (yes 4) of my children sleeping next to me at night. Truthfully though, I no longer try to talk a Maintream CIO parent out of her parenting choice. Why? It is her child, her decision and most likely, she is educated enough to know my position on the subject, has read the research and the Dr Sears articles and chosen that is her style and choice to do otherwise. Who am I to argue with her decision?

I know some mothers seek out AP playgroups to socialize exclusively in because they are uncomfy in settings where there decisions are challenged. I don't feel that way. I do not want to change someone from being catholic or baptist because I've decided to live another way, but I will still gladly welcome friendship. The only stipulation, of course, is I assume that I will receive the same amount of tolerance in return. I breastfeed my toddlers, I do not CIO (so i may look like a mess w/o make-up during a growth spurt or otherwise lack of sleep night)...and I do appreciate the lack of judgement on my discipline style. That being said, don't they deserve the same tolerance and respect? If they ask for advice, I will give my experience and advice...not the research. My son liked to be rocked to sleep, my son wasn't ready to wean...not what Dr Sears says.

Motherhood is difficult enough. I don't understand why, as women, we go on the offensive. Do your best...let them do theirs. I understand AP, my child, and what it means to me as a mom.

Trust me..when they turn 9,. you will only be judged if your chidl is **** in diapers.


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *tillymonster* 

I am very confident in how I parent and really feel that ive made all the right choices.

Great. But bear in mind you have a toddler. There is still lots of growing for both of you to do. There is not a soul on earth that one day wont say "I wish I had done that differently."

Kids have a way of humbling us. Esp when you least expect it. Its much less emotionally damaging to us if we understand that none of us make the right choice 100% of the time. We make the best choice, or even the best choice at the time. But I have been in this game 174 months longer then you have. And I I have never been able to say that I have made all the right choices all the time.

So moral of the story? Don't start a thread about AP and not expect crazy debate.

Um, how about maybe not posting a thread about feeling judged while concurrently using the phrase "How can I not feel superior. I have 17 more months of expereince then she does."

Its not only off putting, its hypocritical.

No, you dont have all the answers b/c there are millions of questions that have not even been asked of you yet.

I really am not an extremist, I just like to talk about my life and thinks I'm passionate about openly and try and do what I think is right. Ugh..

But you come off superior. You even used that exact phrasing.

I remember when my kids were young and healthy and I thought I knew it all. And then life slapped me upside the head and said there is no room for arrogance when raising a compassionate human being.



> You'll never get thorugh life undamaged if you dont understand that.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *tillymonster* 

Ok so here I am again, the big bad OP. I stopped reading this thread because I felt I was misunderstood, especially with the word "superior" which has been thrown around in some ridiculous ways.

*You were throwing that word around in ridiculous ways yourself.*

I was looking to commiserate and I didn't get much, did I?

*You posted that you felt judged, which we can all commiserate with, then you made statements we found judgemental, which is something this community rarely supports.*
I am very confident in how I parent and really feel that ive made all the right choices.

*All the right choices for you, your family, and your child--not for everyone.*

I don't think back and go "wish I would have listened to my gut" because I did the first time around.

*One day, you will look back, and there WILL be things you wish you had done differently. All parents do.*

I was told how to parent my child by people who don't know much about my family, my child, me. They weren't saying "this is what I do", they were saying "what you do is WRONG".

*Obviously we don't agree that they should do that--but they will keep doing it, and the best thing you can do is let it all roll off your back. All you can do is your best for your child.*

Luckily I'm smart enough not to listen, but at the end of the day, it hurts my feelings, for starters.

*I know that it does, but try not to take it personally. Everyone has an opinion about parenting!*

To tell me I'm wrong to judge is hilarious, I don't judge,

*The comment you repeated several times about being superior to others due to having an older child was judging. When you come to realize that, and change the language you use, you will feel less judged by others, too. You are not superior, for any reason, and stating otherwise will always rile feathers.*

It makes me sad that I can't share scientific studies that show CIO as being damaging because I'm automatically attacking?

*How would you feel if people shared with you scientific studies showing your parenting methods were damaging? Why do you feel it's your place to educate them? Do you assume they have not done the research themselves or that their instincts with their own children are wrong? Do you not do things that studies show are potentially damaging? Some (albeit flawed) studies lead people to support circumcision or to be against cosleeping, which is against the stance of most MDCers. We don't let those studies influence our parenting. Is it not hypocritical to expect others to change their parenting techniques based on studies we provide?*

They ask why I do what I do, so I tell them and I'm the bad guy? Huh?

*You're only the bad guy if it's unsolicited or judgemental. We all have explained what we do and why, only to have others assume we're trying to lecture them. And likewise, it is easy for us to feel judged when others tell us what they do and why.*

But from what I read about Ferberized babies who grow up to have major issues makes me want to tell everyone I know!

*So do it, in the proper venues--when giving solicited advice, when debating the issue online, when deciding what products to buy, give to others, or recommend.*

So moral of the story? Don't start a thread about AP and not expect crazy debate.



> *I think it's more like: don't post about feeling judged, then immediately follow it with a comment about your own superiority which is quite judgemental. Maybe you didn't intend to be judgemental, but it came out that way. This is a prime example of how the language you use can be insulting, even when you're only meaning to be helpful. If you can tweak your language to better reflect your intent, you may get better results.*


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

Yep. This.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tillymonster*
> 
> So moral of the story? Don't start a thread about AP and not expect crazy debate..


The responses that you have are having such a hard time hearing are all from APing moms, and some of us have far more experience than you.

You could choose to actually hear what we are saying, and to grow as a person. To do that, you'd have to admit that you aren't perfect yet.

It really shouldn't be that hard to admit you aren't perfect, none of us are perfect. No one is perfect. We ALL have things to learn.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> *The responses that you have are having such a hard time hearing are all from APing moms, and some of us have far more experience than you.*
> 
> ...


Hear, hear!!!

(Automatic spellchecker really got you on the spelling of perfect in that one or something, eh Linda?







)


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## Chinaberry (Sep 20, 2010)

Linda, you strengthen my resolve to keep the mommy nap a priority. Bless you.

ETA the thing I was referring to: "It is so much easier to react with love and compassion to others when one's own needs are being consistently met rather than put on hold indefinitely."


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

I am not prefect!

And Linda i love you, and your posts. xxx


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moonfirefaery*
> 
> Hear, hear!!!
> 
> ...










Spelling isn't my strong point.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> 
> 
> ...










But you have so many others, you have to leave some of the strong points for the rest of us no?


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moonfirefaery*
> 
> So, FF would have been easier for you. However, the statement you were responding to was: "FF is not necessarily easier either". And you know what? It's not. That you had a difficult time BFing doesn't mean no FF parents have a difficult time; it doesn't mean FF is easier for everyone or is always easier. And I HAVE had to take antibiotics for mastitis, more than once. FF parents can run into issues where their babies don't like the nipples or are allergic to FF, or even where they simply cannot afford the formula. And maybe they chose to BF, but couldn't, and now they have to buy formula they can't afford or that their kid vomits up. As for the reasons people do CIO, maybe the alternatives were just as hard for them, maybe it's their last resort, maybe they're sleep deprived with dark circles and at the end of their rope, maybe their mom or pediatrician recommended it, maybe they think sleep training is necessary. But by no means is it easy; I don't know any parents who CIO and thought it was easy.


This is the third time I am trying this--I know we all agree the new MDC format stinks . Anyhow, I didn't say CIO was easy. I said I was sure it was hard in the moment and also upsetting. So you don't need to twist my words. Also, I acknowledged there would be a time and place in which I would FF instead of BF (yes, dark circles, sleep deprived, and at the end of my rope). Frankly, that is how I feel about all things AP and thought I made that clear. There are times when CIO, FF, etc, could be argued to be more AP if it meets baby's needs by meeting mom's mental health needs. I am in no way militant about AP, so you can quit being so snippy with me like I am.

Also, I am surprised by the huge backlash by many about AP not producing certain outcomes. Research backs the theory that kids with a secure attachment to a caregiver do better than those with an insecure attachment, and that isn't Dr. Sears 101--its in your Psych 101 textbook. There are obviously exceptions to every rule. Humans are resilient and some more so than others. I know that because my neighbor lets her kid CIO doesn't mean she's going to turn into a sociopath, and that because I don't doesn't mean my kid is going to be a saint. The fact that some of us feel that AP is the best thing for kids doesn't mean we think we're superior to anyone else. For me, it means that I believe the research on AP and I believe that kids deserve to have their needs met, and that there are in fact known and proven benefits to kids having their needs met, and known risks for those who haven't had their needs met. I know there has to be balance and I think most people posting on here know that too. I don't live in a bubble where everyone I meet has the resources to give their kids everything they'd like to in a perfect world, and myself am not able to do that. I can't be 100% AP all the time and nobody I know can. If people don't believe in the benefits of AP and strive to meet their kids' needs as best as they can, I don't understand why they even come to MDC.

And as a side note, I think it is ironic that so many people are calling OP on the carpet for feeling superior to her friend when all of the posts calling her out smack of superiority themselves right down to using the same argument she used that they have more experience parenting and therefore are somehow experts on the topic at hand.


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## APToddlerMama (Oct 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Calicara*
> 
> I am so sorry for the way the "crib=cage" comment came across, and perhaps should have included the context and offer the fact that I have a sarcastic sense of humor. I was using hyperbole when my brother-in-law (who is not a father, not that it matters) kept grilling us on why our baby slept with us. "Aren't you afraid you're going to roll over on her?" "Aren't you afraid she's going to have 'issues' since she 'needs' a parent to 'fall asleep'"? "Why do you do that?" A sleep-deprived and annoyed-that-I-even-have-to-justify-myself me: "Oh, I don't know, I guess she doesn't like to be caged. Would you like to sleep in a cage?" Truth be told: I am trying to get her to spend the first part of the night and naps in the crib, but she's not feeling it right now. I know enough in the past nine months (which I recognize isn't a lifetime, but seems like a long time, relatively speaking) that each child is different and each family has its own sets of needs and the last thing I want to do is judge others. Perhaps I just need to work on being more tactful when people drive me to my limit. AP jives with our own style and works for us. Something else that doesn't work for us works beautifully for someone else. And that's totally 100 % fine.
> 
> My initial comment was just preparing myself for how to react to being judged for my choices, which I am fairly certain is gonna happen when I visit my folks. I hate controversy (can't we all just get along?) but as a new parent I am realizing that you need to develop a thick skin if you are at all sensitive (I prefer the term "thoughtful") to begin with. Crib, bed, on the soft back of a flying unicorn: whichever way gives your kid the best sleep is the right choice for you, as far as I'm concerned. I never meant to come across as belittling someone else's choices; that goes against the very core of my being.


I don't think you have to be sorry for anything. Were you to start a thread titled "My family is judging co-sleeping", I can see someone advising you to make a comment like "how would you like to sleep in a cage?" to your family members and everyone would applaud such a clever question that would surely put family members on their heels. This thread has just turned into judgment central. I'm not offended and my kid spent plenty of time sleeping in his cage...


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

APToddlerMama, please don't accuse me of being snippy, especially after the tone of the posts of yours which led up to the post of mine which you quoted. No one here except the OP has expressed any feelings of superiority. The OP dismissed the posts as a crazy debate that inevitably results on an AP thread, so someone reminded her that we're all AP parents, too, many of us who have been doing it for years and do have something to teach. It's not that we're experts; we're trying to demonstrate to her that the controversy on this thread is not over AP in general, but over her comments expressing superiority. No one has judged anyone; we've pointed out that saying "How can I not feel superior" is judgmental and isn't going to help someone make friends.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

AP can't always be done; it's great if it can. Research shows AP produces good results; but reality shows that it doesn't always.

In a nutshell!


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

AP compared to truly unattached parenting, which is beyond just not AP but neglect, will show differences in how the child grows, I agree with that. AP compared to abuse will show differences in how the child grows. But AP compared to loving parents who CIO for a few nights and bottle fed by choice? I don't honestly know which of my dd's friends were parented in an AP way and which weren't. You can't even tell when they're 9 years old. I can see a difference in one child who has been yelled at and spanked frequently. That difference seems to show up. But I wouldn't count on AP giving you better behaved, happier kids than the families in homes where parents are generally attentive and loving but don't do the things we associate with AP.


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## princesstutu (Jul 17, 2007)

You know, sometimes feelings of superiority arise when we need those feelings in order to remain committed to our ideals in the face of persecution and derision.

Bumping a newly dead thread, but...I'm awake. LOL


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *princesstutu*
> 
> You know, sometimes feelings of superiority arise when we need those feelings in order to remain committed to our ideals in the face of persecution and derision.
> 
> Bumping a newly dead thread, but...I'm awake. LOL


That may be how it started for me, because when my oldest was first born, I kinda felt like I had to fight for the right to be an attached mama -- not with dh, definitely, but it probably didn't help that we were living with my parents (we moved out when dd1 was five months old) and whenever dd was fussy Mom kept thinking she was such a big baby (10 lbs, 12 1/2 ounces) that she really needed some formula on top of that breast milk. Then there were the well-meaning friends and relatives who didn't think it was okay to hold dd all the time, even when she slept.

At first it seemed so much like I was having to prove myself to all these people (and to myself, as well), that as we saw dd growing and thriving on just my milk -- and, yes, when she was about one she did get to the place where she was really restless trying to take her nap in my lap and she gave strong indications that she really wanted to be laid in the bed, so there was the proof that you can hold a baby when she sleeps (if you so choose) and she eventually will be able to sleep on her own -- well, it was like I wanted the satisfaction of seeing them eat their words but I don't think any of them really did.

(Oh, and I also took a lot of flack for not pushing the toilet training -- but, I can assure you, they are now six and eleven and they are not still in diapers! So all those warnings about how they'd be in diapers forever were totally unwarranted. They also didn't nurse forever, in spite of being allowed to nurse for as long as they wanted, so all the ignorant comments that people make to mothers, and I think there's even a warnng about this in one of the "What to Expect" books, are just, well, very ignorant comments made by people who really have no idea what they're talking about.)

But of course the real satisfaction is not in having others say, "Oh, okay, I was wrong and you were right." The real satisfaction is in my relationship with my children. And we really do all make mistakes. I'm just very happy to be able to say that all or nearly all my mistakes are squarely my own and I think I've largely avoided adding the mistakes of others on top of my own.


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