# Toy Snatching



## boigrrrlwonder (Jan 18, 2007)

Your young, pre-verbal toddler snatches a toy out of another child's hand and refuses to give it back. The other kid is crying/fighting for it. What do *you* do?


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

This doesn't happen much anymore because dd is 5, but when she was younger I would tell her something like "give it back it is not your turn" and then if she refused I would tell her "I am going to help you give it back." I usually told her inbetween those two statements something about how her friend was feeling and I am glad I took the time to do that because now I can usually just say something quick about how her friend looks and ask her how she can help him feel better.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

"Uh-oh, L wasn't done with his turn! Here, let me trade you for this beautiful sparkly XYZ!"

"Can you throw it in the bucket? Put the marker in the bucket! Yay!"

"Here, hand it to R! Put it in her hand so she can play with it!"

This is what I do about a million times a day around here. Though obviously my toddler has some verbal skills. How pre-verbal do you mean?


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## Justmee (Jun 6, 2005)

Pretty much what the PP does, I had 3 non verbal kids here for a while and toy snatching was an all too often occurance. Thankfully, this too does pass! If I needed to I would take away from the snatcher, I know a lot of people don't believe in that, and in theory I wouldn't also, but "use your words" doesn't work too well with three non verbal kids who can't even say "mama" yet







.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

This has happened twice...I will point out first though, that I think its very important to never 'snatch' out of your own childs hands - otherwise that just sends them mixed messages - the 'dont snatch!' - then *statch! from them lol

If the parents are nearby - I quickly explain this to them 'I do not want to enforce snatching by doing to my child what I would not like them to do - so I will not force the toy out of their hands' - surprisingly I have explained this the times it has happened and they have completly understood.

Also - do not shame. I think its important to teach our children empathy - why should be not take a toy from someone else? Point out how the other child is feeling, obviously they are crying so they are very upset. What can we do about that? (if they are pre - verbal this your que to act - if they are verbal, then its good to bet their feedback!) - But dont say something like 'Look what you did - look how you made them feel!' because then that is just plain shaming.

Then focus on the victim. You can talk to your child about it later - I suppose its also along the same line that you dont want to give them attention for the negative behaviour - it cant go ignored of course, but the child who is upset needs consoling and needs the attention. You can ask your child if they would like to give the toy back but if they dont - what do you do?.... You deal with the hurt child, you talk to them about their feelings, you ask what perhaps you can do to help them feel better. If they are pre verbal, again this is your que to act - go get them a similar toy, show the a different toy, suggest a new fun activity, etc

So - there are a number of things you can do but I think its important to remember what not to do first.


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## boigrrrlwonder (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
This has happened twice...I will point out first though, that I think its very important to never 'snatch' out of your own childs hands - otherwise that just sends them mixed messages - the 'dont snatch!' - then *statch! from them lol

If the parents are nearby - I quickly explain this to them 'I do not want to enforce snatching by doing to my child what I would not like them to do - so I will not force the toy out of their hands' - surprisingly I have explained this the times it has happened and they have completly understood.

Thank you for this. I'll admit, that I've been snatching the toy out of her hand.







: I just feel so much pressure to get the toy out of her hand right away when my kid has made another kid cry - but felt really guilty afterwards every time. So, hearing how you explained it to parents, so that I have time to try and gently coax her to give it up; that helps.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boigrrrlwonder* 
Thank you for this. I'll admit, that I've been snatching the toy out of her hand.







: I just feel so much pressure to get the toy out of her hand right away when my kid has made another kid cry - but felt really guilty afterwards every time. So, hearing how you explained it to parents, so that I have time to try and gently coax her to give it up; that helps.

I feel the pressure too...in fact, I think most parents on MDC probably feel the pressure from the 'mainstream' in most everything they do - from the toy snatching issue to breastfeeding, co sleeping...etc... It is something I am getting comfrotable with the more confident I am getting with my parenting skills!

The toy snatching thing was the easiest to explain to other parents tbh with you... Its the one thing I have said in the heat of the moment that they have actually stopped and though 'omg yeah! - that totally makes sense!'...So whilst they usually do not agree with my parenting stragies - I have at least let them know that I do care, that I do not think the behaviour was acceptable and that I am activly trying to do something about it (even if that is just conforting their child for my DCs behaviour) - even if that is what they wouldnt personally do in that situation...it sort of lets them know I am not being 'permissive' - because I feel thats part of the pressure as well...I get that feeling a lot iykwim.


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## eli janine (Jun 29, 2006)

OK, so what do you do when you do say all of those things ("Avery, Brother's turn. Please give it to Brother! Yay, give the toy to Brother now! Here, Brother, give him this other toy to trade with!) and your toddler then begins holding the toy out to the older child, smiling like he's going to give it back, but then snatches it back away out of reach, giggling like a maniac the whole time (Brother is four y.o. and screeching in a really non-attachment-promoting way, btw)? Repeat scenario approximately thirty-seven times per hour that children are together. Fun game.


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## kathteach (Jun 6, 2004)

I'm in a similar situation as Elissa so I would like to hear from more mamas too.

DS1 who is two will grab a toy from DS2 who is 8 months old and scream when I ask him to give it back. To pacify DS2 I find something he will like but DS1 will immediately want the new toy because his brother has it and so on and so on. I would like a better way of dealing with this.


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## Carlyle (Mar 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
This has happened twice...I will point out first though, that I think its very important to never 'snatch' out of your own childs hands - otherwise that just sends them mixed messages - the 'dont snatch!' - then *statch! from them lol

If the parents are nearby - I quickly explain this to them 'I do not want to enforce snatching by doing to my child what I would not like them to do - so I will not force the toy out of their hands' - surprisingly I have explained this the times it has happened and they have completly understood.

Also - do not shame. I think its important to teach our children empathy - why should be not take a toy from someone else? Point out how the other child is feeling, obviously they are crying so they are very upset. What can we do about that? (if they are pre - verbal this your que to act - if they are verbal, then its good to bet their feedback!) - But dont say something like 'Look what you did - look how you made them feel!' because then that is just plain shaming.

Then focus on the victim. You can talk to your child about it later - I suppose its also along the same line that you dont want to give them attention for the negative behaviour - it cant go ignored of course, but the child who is upset needs consoling and needs the attention. You can ask your child if they would like to give the toy back but if they dont - what do you do?.... You deal with the hurt child, you talk to them about their feelings, you ask what perhaps you can do to help them feel better. If they are pre verbal, again this is your que to act - go get them a similar toy, show the a different toy, suggest a new fun activity, etc

So - there are a number of things you can do but I think its important to remember what not to do first.

This is SUCH a tough situation for me!!! I am really interested to read other responses because I haven't found a way of dealing with this that feels right to me. The only thing that *does* feel good is to try to prevent the grab in the first place. When dd has a friend over, I stay very close. If I see a grab coming, I say "I'm not going to let you grab that toy from X. You can say 'please,' you can ask him if he'll trade for this cool sparkly toy. If he still doesn't want to share, we will come back and ask him again in a minute." that kind of thing.

But once the grab happens, I haven't found a way of dealing with it that feels good. I am actually back at the place where I feel best about taking the toy back and giving it to the original user--again explaining "I can't let you grab that toy from X. You can say please...etc" and trying to get her to learn strategies for telling someone she wants the toy. This feels good for the most part, except when you glance away, glance back and both kids are screaming...you don't know who 'started with it' and you don't know who "should" get it.

I have been really interested in the approach described by Ann_of_Loxley above and have tried it many times, but I think I am finding that it's not working for me. My dd is WAY too grabby for me to be comfortable letting her "get away" when she does manage to grab something without trying to giving her some tools on how she COULD do things differently. She does it on a daily (no, hourly) basis and has done so since she could get that pudgy little fist around a toy (I must be understanding your post wrong, 'cause there's no way this has only ever happened to you twice, right?)

She's also not one to be distracted. Hoo boy no (I always feel really frustrated when people talk about distraction--I know it's a great tool, and I've even seen it work on other babies...just not on MY baby!







). And what do you do when both kids are grabbing the toy and screaming bloody murder at the top of their lungs (can you tell my dd has a friend with a similar non-distractable and assertive temperament)? Or when the kid who got grabbed from WON'T be consoled or distracted and in fact runs over and grabs the toy BACK?

What I found happening a LOT, was that dd would grab, the other kid would cry, and dd would gleefully go on her merry way while I was comforting the grabee. Even if I picked her up and brought her back to the screaming kid, saying "wow, it looks like X is really sad. He really wanted the Y. Are you ready to give it back yet?" she would 99% of the time say "NO." Loudly. Then scramble up and go back on her merry way. I felt like I was teaching her that grabbing was okay by doing that too.

I definitely don't shame her either way...I'm really into trying to help her develop her skills and empathy. I'm just not sure HOW to do it yet!


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## justthinkn (Apr 11, 2008)

I've been thinking about this and trying to get it for a few weeks now... I get the not snatching from them thing, and I totally see that the best strategy is trying to prevent their snatching in the first place, the second strategy is giving them a chance to make the situation right...

But it feels really weird to just let them keep a snatched toy if the first two strategies don't work. How is that not permissive? There are other limits that I can enforce as a GDing parent, right? Like if DD gets my glasses (ETA: off my face, not like I'm just leaving them lying around), I remove them from her hand while re-directing. Even if she got really upset, I couldn't let her keep my glasses... What's the difference here?


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
I will point out first though, that I think its very important to never 'snatch' out of your own childs hands - otherwise that just sends them mixed messages - the 'dont snatch!' - then *statch! from them lol

If the parents are nearby - I quickly explain this to them 'I do not want to enforce snatching by doing to my child what I would not like them to do - so I will not force the toy out of their hands' - surprisingly I have explained this the times it has happened and they have completly understood.

I think that there is a difference, even to the child, between "snatching" something out of one's hands and in gently removing something from one's hands. I think that gently removing the toy, while explaining that it is not yet his turn, is a world apart from "snatching it back".

I'm not sure how your method doesn't teach the child that it is ok to snatch things away from others because mommy will let him keep what he snatched. To some kids, giving attention to the "victim" would be a deterrant. But to other kids, as long as they ended up with the toy they wanted, they wouldn't care if you gave the other child your attention.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I agree. I've had issues with this at playdates a lot. I really dislike it when my son has stuff snatched repeatedly and the kid won't give it back and nothing happens. I try hard to give it back when my dc does it.

Although, what do you do when they're really young and you're at another's house. Sometimes I think kids have trouble sharing their stuff and that's understandable. At times I try to encourage my dc to play with something else, but then when the table's are turned I feel like I'm encouraging my dc to share with the visitor and it's not really fair. And I hate thinking about this in such detail b/c it feels really petty, but it is a source of great frustration when I'm trying to balance teaching my child with being polite with also being fair to my child.


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## boigrrrlwonder (Jan 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin* 
I think that there is a difference, even to the child, between "snatching" something out of one's hands and in gently removing something from one's hands. I think that gently removing the toy, while explaining that it is not yet his turn, is a world apart from "snatching it back".

I'm not sure how your method doesn't teach the child that it is ok to snatch things away from others because mommy will let him keep what he snatched. To some kids, giving attention to the "victim" would be a deterrant. But to other kids, as long as they ended up with the toy they wanted, they wouldn't care if you gave the other child your attention.

I'd like to say that while in the long-term, I'd like to teach my little one to learn to ask for toys and find better means of sharing, I do think she's way too young. She can't talk. She can't say, "Please." She just doesn't understand any of that.

My kid is really grabby, too, and it can take a *long* time to get her to give things back. Honestly, if the other kid doesn't seem to care, I ignore the behavior. I am committed to working with her until she surrenders the toy or whatever - I don't think DD would care about me comforting the other kid and besides which, I've always sucked at comforting others' kids anyway.


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## sunnymw (Feb 28, 2007)

Subbing, because I know this will come up soon. And I'd love to know how to assert myself when DS does this to his conventionally parented cousins, who are 1, 2, and 3 years older than he is.

Here is how it's handled in the Extended Family:

X is 2.5yo and grabs a toy out of Y's hand, almost 4. When Y tries to grab it back, X starts crying and all the adults start paying attention.

X's mom calls out "No, you need to SHARE that toy."
Y's dad calls out "Y, just GRAB it BACK from her!"


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## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin* 
I think that there is a difference, even to the child, between "snatching" something out of one's hands and in gently removing something from one's hands. I think that gently removing the toy, while explaining that it is not yet his turn, is a world apart from "snatching it back".

Really? If my husband "gently removed" something from my hand that I didn't want him to take, it would feel pretty much the same as snatching. Actually it would feel worse to me than if my child "snatched" something away from me. My husband is bigger and stronger than I am and I would feel that it was a misuse of his power to take something out of my hand against my will regardless of the gentleness with which he takes it. On the other hand I know that I am quite powerful compared to my child so I am not threatened by her grabbing something away from me.


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## junipermuse (Nov 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boigrrrlwonder* 
I'd like to say that while in the long-term, I'd like to teach my little one to learn to ask for toys and find better means of sharing, I do think she's way too young. She can't talk. She can't say, "Please." She just doesn't understand any of that.

My kid is really grabby, too, and it can take a *long* time to get her to give things back. Honestly, if the other kid doesn't seem to care, I ignore the behavior. I am committed to working with her until she surrenders the toy or whatever - I don't think DD would care about me comforting the other kid and besides which, I've always sucked at comforting others' kids anyway.

you make such an important point here. That for a preverbal child they have no other way of communicating their desire for something than to grab it. I really think that we need to honor their desire to communicate their wants and needs while also honoring the other child's desire to hold on to their toy. I think the key is as you said being committed to working with the "grabber" until they surrender the item. Or at least work with both parties until amutully agreeable solution is reached. After a minute or so if the other child is no longer interested in the toy there is no need to continue insisting they return it. I like to keep in mind that children learn so much by example, they don't always need a consequence to teach them a lesson


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## desultory (Jan 25, 2006)

This has been a difficult issue for me lately because my 2 yr old tends to be the 'grabee' and one particular pal of his is the grabber. It's so frustrating to me! I try to let them work it out themselves as long as they don't get too aggressive with each other. Neither of his moms mind, and I don't mind, if a little hitting or wrestling takes place*, but we do intervene if the violence escalates. Sometimes my son yells or cries for a moment when his pal grabs a toy, but then finds something else to play with. It's hard for me to let that go, but I usually do because I think that's also an example of them working it out. We (the moms) also sometimes take the grabbed item and return it, and the 'grabber' hasn't ever seemed to care -- he usually just finds something else to play with himself! I think the whole grabbing, pushing, hitting amongst toddlers is really fraught for the caregivers, but not so much for the participants -- it's part of learning how to socialize.

*that is, hitting and wrestling between the boys involved -- none of us hit our kids and we only wrestle in a playful way.


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *junipermuse* 
Really? If my husband "gently removed" something from my hand that I didn't want him to take, it would feel pretty much the same as snatching. Actually it would feel worse to me than if my child "snatched" something away from me. My husband is bigger and stronger than I am and I would feel that it was a misuse of his power to take something out of my hand against my will regardless of the gentleness with which he takes it. On the other hand I know that I am quite powerful compared to my child so I am not threatened by her grabbing something away from me.

Yes, really. I would be able to differentiate something being removed from my hand and something being snatched out of my hand.

And really, there is no valid comparaison. I hate the argument that compares husbands to children. Children are human, they deserve respect, they have feelings, their feelings are valid, so on and so forth - BUT, a big but, _they are not adults._ There is an evolutionary reason that they are born small, with smaller brains. There is some science behind the psychology that says that they do not have the reasoning ability of an adult.

I would never snatch something FROM my husband to begin with, so him snatching it back from me would be a moot point. There is the difference again between what we know is ok as an adult and what we don't realize as children.

It would be one thing if my child snatched a toy away and I walked over and beamed them flat hand across the face and then took it back. But I see nothing wrong at all with telling them that it isn't their turn (or similar) and taking it and giving it back to the other child.


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## eli janine (Jun 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *junipermuse* 
Really? If my husband "gently removed" something from my hand that I didn't want him to take, it would feel pretty much the same as snatching. Actually it would feel worse to me than if my child "snatched" something away from me. My husband is bigger and stronger than I am and I would feel that it was a misuse of his power to take something out of my hand against my will regardless of the gentleness with which he takes it. On the other hand I know that I am quite powerful compared to my child so I am not threatened by her grabbing something away from me.

I understand where you're coming from with this comparison, but if your husband said several times, "Honey, will you please give that back to Petie?" and "Sweetheart, it's Petie's turn with that, and he wasn't done with it. Please give it back to him" and then you saw that Petie was indeed upset about you having the item, and you STILL kept it, would you be that confused by the act of him "gently removing" the item from your hand? Even though he's bigger and stronger than you, I think you would understand that he had tried other options of getting you to give up what you had in your hand first, as well as explained to you a perfectly logical reason that you should give up what you had in your hand, even though you really wanted it. You would understand, as I really believe my toddler does, that this removal was different from that bigger and stronger person simply wrenching it out of your hand without reason.

ETA: slabobbin, I see, made pretty much the same point while I was attending to my kiddo and forgot to "refresh" my screen.


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## Kessed (Nov 28, 2007)

"It's not OK to just take the toy from Suzie. We need to give that toy back and wait for our turn. Either you give the toy back - or mama will give the toy back. DD (her name) gives or mama gives!"

And then I enforce it.

I don't "snatch" it out of her hands. But I will gently take it from her and model giving it back to the other child. Then I made a choice. If I think she can handle it (and the other kid) I sit with her and we wait for her turn. If I think that will cause issues, then I will distract her onto something else.

It doesn't normally end up being a big deal.

I'm not OK with letting her keep the toy she took. I've run into too many kids of CL parents who terrorize other kids with their "might makes right" actions. I don't let DD keep a toy that she got by snatching... But, of course, I'm not perfect and if the other kid seems oblivious - then I'll often ignore it.


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## coracle (Jul 18, 2002)

My tendency at this stage was to gently physically contain the grabber (arms around, bending over them or kneeling by them) while talking calmly about taking turns, or how the grabbee feels, or finding another toy like it. This was my compromise between not wanting to grab back and not wanting him to get away with the toy - he couldn't really play with it while I was holding him and directing his attention to the grabbee. It seemed to me somewhat coercive, but not disrepectful. If I could convince the grabber to be the one to give the toy back I felt great about it; when I couldn't, I still had to decide whether to physically take it. Sometimes one or the other would just lose interest in the toy while I went on and on talking, which was also OK with me







.

Now obviously if it's someone else's kid grabbing from yours you may not feel comfortable putting an arm around them to stop them escaping, but there were times I did it and it went OK. Also if either kid freaks about being contained you gotta go to plan B, whatever that is.

I also found it helpful to say things like "You will have the next turn" (to the grabber) or "_When_ can Petie have a turn with that toy?" (to the grabbee). I don't think it occurs to little ones that having or not having the toy will be temporary unless we suggest it.

When ds2 was constantly grabbing from his older brother it helped to give the older one the option of playing in a protected space (other side of a baby gate usually). Baby was not separated from me and brother was not cut off from our company, but baby could not grab brother's project. Add to this the usual redirection, etc.

-Sue


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## Carlyle (Mar 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *junipermuse* 
I think the key is as you said being committed to working with the "grabber" until they surrender the item. Or at least work with both parties until amutully agreeable solution is reached. After a minute or so if the other child is no longer interested in the toy there is no need to continue insisting they return it. I like to keep in mind that children learn so much by example, they don't always need a consequence to teach them a lesson

But what does this look/sound like? The "working with both parties" that is.

I mean, I've been in situations where 2 parents are each physically restraining their child and talking with them gently and quietly to try to get them to surrender the item/work with their feelings/distract them/etc...and they are both screaming bloody murder. It (the screaming) does not end after a minute, it only escalates with both participants becoming more and more frantic. Neither child is being distracted or forgetting about the toy until it is finally taken away.

And I've also been in situations very similar where both children have a death-grip on the toy and are screaming at the top of their lungs for a LONG time (despite being hugged--and restrained, and talked to--by their moms at the same time).

I mean, I think sometimes they just get so caught up in the moment that they lose it and can't even remember why they're screaming, but they still can't let go somehow. It's weird.

And yeah, if the other kid doesn't care about it, I generally let it slide too. But if the other kid cares, it doesn't feel right to me to just let dd sit in my arms (or run away) and play with the toy (with me talking in her ear and trying to show her how upset the other kid is) while the other kid is bawling his/her eyes out in his/her mom's arms.

(I have a very strong-willed little girl. Can you tell? Hopefully this will serve her well someday...







)

ETA: I don't see the "returning of the item to the grabee/removing it from my dd's hands" as a "consequence" of grabbing, I see it as helping her learn manners. i.e. I'm not doing it to be punitive (and I really don't feel punitive when I'm doing it--so hopefully she picks up on that), I'm doing it to lead by example...after it's been returned, I show her how to ask for it/distract the other kid with a different toy/wait for a turn.

I'm sure I'll have this all figured out and I'll know all the "right" answers by the time my kids are 18...


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *junipermuse* 
Really? If my husband "gently removed" something from my hand that I didn't want him to take, it would feel pretty much the same as snatching. Actually it would feel worse to me than if my child "snatched" something away from me. My husband is bigger and stronger than I am and I would feel that it was a misuse of his power to take something out of my hand against my will regardless of the gentleness with which he takes it. On the other hand I know that I am quite powerful compared to my child so I am not threatened by her grabbing something away from me.

I was going to reply to that in the same way - youve saved me the trouble







lol...I totally agree with what you have said.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin* 
*Yes, really. I would be able to differentiate something being removed from my hand and something being snatched out of my hand.*
And really, there is no valid comparaison. I hate the argument that compares husbands to children. Children are human, they deserve respect, they have feelings, their feelings are valid, so on and so forth - BUT, a big but, _they are not adults._ There is an evolutionary reason that they are born small, with smaller brains. There is some science behind the psychology that says that they do not have the reasoning ability of an adult.

I would never snatch something FROM my husband to begin with, so him snatching it back from me would be a moot point. There is the difference again between what we know is ok as an adult and what we don't realize as children.

It would be one thing if my child snatched a toy away and I walked over and beamed them flat hand across the face and then took it back. *But I see nothing wrong at all with telling them that it isn't their turn (or similar) and taking it and giving it back to the other child.*

Exactly...YOU are an adult - a child is not. You may see a difference between snatching and gentle removing...a child will not. The importance here is modeling appropriate behaviour for them. Espeically for the young children who are not very verbal at all. They see a behaviour - they learn from the behaviour because we are naturally social creatures (this includes our body language). Regardless what you want to call it (I mean, its like saying 'I didnt spank him, I gave him a tap' - we no for a fact that a child who may indeed only get a tap on the hand, because I have seen it and it really is only a tap on the hand, is still a child who most likely hits - which is only one reason why I do not think its acceptable in any way - because they see the action done to them, they then do not know yet how our actions affect others, let alone are they able to take that into account with the force behind their swining hand in your direction which is why your tap may in turn have taught your child to give you a pretty good punch when you do something they are unhappy with) a child only sees it simply as 'something in someone elses hand - want it for whatever reason (in your case as the adult, because you feel your child has done and injustice and should not have that toy as it is not theirs/their turn/etc - take it. A child who has this done to them will continue to take things out of other peoples hands simply because they are seeing that behaviour modeled for them and think its okay. If you child could talk, maybe they would even chalk it up by saying that they didnt snatch, they just gentle removed it from the other persons hand. All it does is teach a child how to be a bully. I am bigger and or stronger than you, I want to do this so I will. Eventually you might resort to 'punishments' etc to get your child to comply to the arbitrary rules or 'sharing' and not 'snatching' that they cant yet get their heads around (studies show a child just does not understanding sharing until they around the age of 8!) so then youll say your tactics work because your child does then comply to the 'rules'...when really they are acting out of fear of whatever punishment youve decided - again, being a bully because you are bigger and can do so. Not saying you are going to result to some said punishment (be it a time out or whatever) - but how else do you think not setting a good example is going to work unless its purely by your bigger/stronger than you forceful will onto the child? You will continue to 'gentle remove' said item from their hand...and they will contiue to do so as well from someone elses hand. The best way to stop snatching period, is to make sure we always set a good example for them and to work with them gentle and consensually when the unwanted/unaceptable action occurs. Sure - it takes time. But its worth it. And yeah, a child who yet doesnt have empathy (as this learned and takes time as well) may just not care at all and walk away. What can you do? But you know what, thats call a natural concequnce becasue your child will not be liked very much by other children if they continue to upset them will they, eventually they will be turning that behaviour around if they want to have friends.

You know - you can say my child was just born the way he was and that my 'parenting' has no effect on him at all (in turn, that would be almost like saying how you parent a child does not matter either way because they are just born the way they are regardless)..But I will point out here, its funny how out of ALL the children I know (and I know a lot) the majority of them have these 'issues' of snatching (as well as other issues but those are other topics) when my child does not and I am the only one who never 'gentle' (or whatever you want to call it) remove (really - its snatching) something out of my DS hands. I do not find this a coincidence at all. I also do not find it a coincidence that you never find these behaviour issues at the home education group we go to - where we all unschool and live consensually as best we can - its a dramatic difference from the public baby/toddler groups we go to where I know for certain I am the only one to even co sleep, let alone try and live consensually.

I do not think that suggesting force of any kind - not matter how 'gentle' you want to call it - is okay at all, espeically to help tackle the issue of snatching which is rather age appropriate in young children and where at this age they are also very mouldable (if thats a word lol) to our societal 'norms' which are indeed modeled by our social behaviour.


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## jdmcgee (Apr 12, 2007)

This is a tough one and I am looking at it from both sides. My first child was always the one who others took toys away from. Every time another child took away a toy, it really seemed to take away more of her confidence. She would just lower her head and say nothing. It broke my heart. Over the past few years, we have worked hard on working with her to ask for it back and she has gotten so much better. But, if another child took a toy away from her, it would not have been fair to her if the other parent did not enforce that the toy was given back. SHe did not speak up for herself and would get walked all over. I understand that we want to teach our children empathy, etc. and that is so important but it is not fair if it is at the other child's expense. If my daughter had a toy and someone took it and the parent's did not make sure that she got it back, that is very unfair. It teaches her that she is not worthy and that it is okay for others to walk all over her. If a toy was taken away and the parent did not help to get it back, I would have been very upset. Now, my second child will be 2 on Monday and she is a snatcher...thus I now have it on both sides. I am very into gentle discipline, but again, not at the expense of another child. There is one particular friend that she constantly takes toys away from. Both children are screaming. My child will not give it back. How can I not enforce that she give it back. Why should her friend suffer. I do enforce that she gives it back. I tried to encourage her to give it back on her own. IF that does not work, I do gently remove it from her hand and give it back and I do explain and talk while I am doing it. I do not just grab it from her.

Sorry, this is so wordy but, after watching my first child, I feel strongly that the toy needs to be given back. WHile the snatcher is being taught empathy while not enforcing that the toy be given back, the snatchee is being taught a terrible lesson in self esteem.

These are just my thoughts coming from both sides. I do not mean to offend anyone and I hope I did not. My opinion certainly is not for everyone and is not right for everyone. It just feels right for me.


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## Carlyle (Mar 31, 2007)

So a question for the more hands off folks--what do you do when both kids are yanking on a toy and screaming? I would really love to hear about your approach.

Or if one kid grabs a toy and runs off and the other kid is screaming? Do you just let the grabber go and focus on the grabee?

Thanks!


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## dex_millie (Oct 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slabobbin* 
Yes, really. I would be able to differentiate something being removed from my hand and something being snatched out of my hand.

And really, there is no valid comparaison. I hate the argument that compares husbands to children. Children are human, they deserve respect, they have feelings, their feelings are valid, so on and so forth - BUT, a big but, _they are not adults._ There is an evolutionary reason that they are born small, with smaller brains. There is some science behind the psychology that says that they do not have the reasoning ability of an adult.

I would never snatch something FROM my husband to begin with, so him snatching it back from me would be a moot point. There is the difference again between what we know is ok as an adult and what we don't realize as children.

It would be one thing if my child snatched a toy away and I walked over and beamed them flat hand across the face and then took it back. But I see nothing wrong at all with telling them that it isn't their turn (or similar) and taking it and giving it back to the other child.









:

I don't get the husband and child comparsion thing eighter. I don't compare my husband to my child. Their maturity level is different. I don't execpt DH to grab something out my hand (unless he is being playful) and if he does I will argue with him, so I guess I should argue with my child when he does the same.

In those situations I just tell DS to gave it back and mostly always does. I have no problem gently removing a toy from his hand 'if necessary'.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jdmcgee* 
This is a tough one and I am looking at it from both sides. My first child was always the one who others took toys away from. Every time another child took away a toy, it really seemed to take away more of her confidence. She would just lower her head and say nothing. It broke my heart. Over the past few years, we have worked hard on working with her to ask for it back and she has gotten so much better. But, if another child took a toy away from her, it would not have been fair to her if the other parent did not enforce that the toy was given back. SHe did not speak up for herself and would get walked all over. I understand that we want to teach our children empathy, etc. and that is so important but it is not fair if it is at the other child's expense. If my daughter had a toy and someone took it and the parent's did not make sure that she got it back, that is very unfair. It teaches her that she is not worthy and that it is okay for others to walk all over her. If a toy was taken away and the parent did not help to get it back, I would have been very upset. Now, my second child will be 2 on Monday and she is a snatcher...thus I now have it on both sides. I am very into gentle discipline, but again, not at the expense of another child. There is one particular friend that she constantly takes toys away from. Both children are screaming. My child will not give it back. How can I not enforce that she give it back. Why should her friend suffer. I do enforce that she gives it back. I tried to encourage her to give it back on her own. IF that does not work, I do gently remove it from her hand and give it back and I do explain and talk while I am doing it. I do not just grab it from her.

Sorry, this is so wordy but, after watching my first child, I feel strongly that the toy needs to be given back. WHile the snatcher is being taught empathy while not enforcing that the toy be given back, the snatchee is being taught a terrible lesson in self esteem.

These are just my thoughts coming from both sides. I do not mean to offend anyone and I hope I did not. My opinion certainly is not for everyone and is not right for everyone. It just feels right for me.

FWIW, I would do the exact thing you do in your situation. I see nothing wrong with doing that.

When DS goes to visit his cousin (3months older than him) it never ends nice his cousin grabs everything out of his hand, within 15mins of being there DS screams everytime the boy comes within 3 feet of him, I have to hold him for most of the visit and right now I am planning not to go back there until they are older. DS usually is ok if a child grabs something from him, it is when it is done continuous is when it starts to affect him.
DS has his moments of grabbing too but he will mostly gave it back(upon request and I few times I did the gently taking away while showing him how to give it back)


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## Enchanted Gypsy (Oct 5, 2006)

subbing.

I am JUST starting to get a taste of this with my 12 month old.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

I definitely see a difference between "helping" a child return a snatched toy (gently removing, while explaining, and then redirecting/comforting) and simply snatching.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
Exactly...YOU are an adult - a child is not. You may see a difference between snatching and gentle removing...a child will not.

I think this is underestimating what young children can understand, even if they can not yet speak. This may be true for some children, but certainly not all. I think the parents here probably can best make that assessment for their own dc.

Quote:

. And yeah, a child who yet doesnt have empathy (as this learned and takes time as well) may just not care at all and walk away. What can you do? But you know what, thats call a natural concequnce becasue your child will not be liked very much by other children if they continue to upset them will they, eventually they will be turning that behaviour around if they want to have friends. .
This is where the CL approach really loses me. I see this as a fairly extreme natural consequence (although a realistic one, because I've known children who have become unliked by other children because of their behavior). If I can prevent a painful natural consequence with a mild parent-imposed consequence, I will quite often mindfully choose the parent-imposed consequence.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
I definitely see a difference between "helping" a child return a snatched toy (gently removing, while explaining, and then redirecting/comforting) and simply snatching.

I think this is underestimating what young children can understand, even if they can not yet speak. This may be true for some children, but certainly not all. I think the parents here probably can best make that assessment for their own dc.

This is where the CL approach really loses me. I see this as a fairly extreme natural consequence (although a realistic one, because I've known children who have become unliked by other children because of their behavior). If I can prevent a painful natural consequence with a mild parent-imposed consequence, I will quite often mindfully choose the parent-imposed consequence.

Yes, it seems unkind to just abandon a child with no social skills and hope them to learn simply through the reactions of others. I could see how that might work in a very homogenous, close-knit society. But in our world? NO way! I offer lots and lots of observation and instruction to my children on social ettiquette, and instead of feeling shamed that I would assume to know more than them about how to get around in society, I'm pretty sure they feel less shame when they know how to behave appropriately.


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## NotJune (Jun 9, 2008)

I go with the, the child who is most upset about the toy gets it. So, the onewho is crying because it was taken gets it. If on the other hand, that child doesn't care and wanders off to something else, the child who took it gets it. Then distraction with another, preferably "cooler" toy for the one wihtout a toy.


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## KendallY (May 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
The best way to stop snatching period, is to make sure we always set a good example for them and to work with them gentle and consensually when the unwanted/unaceptable action occurs. Sure - it takes time. But its worth it. \

Ann_of_loxley, I'm very interested to hear more from you about how you gently and consesually work with a child in this situation. Do you mind sharing more examples of what you mean?

Thanks!


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## KYCat (May 19, 2004)

I do not think that my first ever snatched a toy. He was and is a watcher and that just isn't his personality. My second wasn't really grabby but would on occasion grab. I think because at this age they do not see the personhood of the other person so if someone is holding a good toy - it's almost like it's on a display shelf. So, here I would say nicely, Oh X looks very upset, it's not nice to yank toys out of someone's hands. Would you like to return it to X or would you like for me to help you? I might follow up with Could Y have a turn with that when your finished Y? I'm ready for flaming but if Y gets to keep the toy that is permissive. It's gentle, it can be instructive, but it is what it is. I read this thread last night and this has been bothering me all night. The adult/child comparisons are wacky but if you are going to make one, the child has not decided to love and trust this "friend" for the rest of their life and has no overwhelming personal feelings for this person due to their toddlerness. A better comparison to me would be "Ma'am we've told the thief that you'd really like your car back but they have decided that they still don't want to give it back. We have even mentioned that you're crying. We're very sorry, let's cuddle. There's really nothing else to be done."
Too crunchy for mainstream too mainstream for Mothering. Time to be off the computer for awhile.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KYCat* 
"Ma'am we've told the thief that you'd really like your car back but they have decided that they still don't want to give it back. We have even mentioned that you're crying. We're very sorry, let's cuddle. .










I'm not sure that is a fair representation of the CL approach, but it did make me chuckle.

Stick around, KYCat!


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## bright_eyes (Dec 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
You know - you can say my child was just born the way he was and that my 'parenting' has no effect on him at all (in turn, that would be almost like saying how you parent a child does not matter either way because they are just born the way they are regardless)..But I will point out here, its funny how out of ALL the children I know (and I know a lot) the majority of them have these 'issues' of snatching (as well as other issues but those are other topics) when my child does not and I am the only one who never 'gentle' (or whatever you want to call it) remove (really - its snatching) something out of my DS hands. I do not find this a coincidence at all. I also do not find it a coincidence that you never find these behaviour issues at the home education group we go to - where we all unschool and live consensually as best we can - its a dramatic difference from the public baby/toddler groups we go to where I know for certain I am the only one to even co sleep, let alone try and live consensually.

I'm sorry, but grabbing is completely age appropriate and happens, regardless of how kids are parented. I decided when ds was a baby not to grab things out of his hands if it was at all possible. I find it a little offensive that you seem to assume that kids who grab toys from others do so because they were shown how to do so from their parents always grabbing things from them. Today at the park, my ds and my friend's son were sitting side by side with my son's sand bucket beside them. The other little boy (18 months) grabbed the lid to the bucket, and ds's instantly grabbed the other side of it and started trying to take it back. Neither of them were playing with it before this moment. My ds was crying and saying "no, no" because he didn't want this boy to have his lid. My friend and I didn't know what to do. Finally her son let go and it ended. And then 5 minutes later, they both had their hands on something else of my ds's, with ds again crying because he didn't want him to have it. My ds is just learning to share. He is not a grabber, he very rarely grabs things he wants from other kids. But if some one takes something of his, he most likely is going to try and grab it back, unless he is in the mood to share. He is not quite 2 and I feel this is total appropriate behaviour. I am having a hard time accepting that this scenario would not have happened if I had never removed things from his hands, which has rarely occurred, and I admit it was not the best way I could have treated the scenarios where they happened, but I am just not a perfect parent.

I just don't see how always modling and never "gently removing" has resulted in your entire home education group not having to deal with toy snatching. Babies/toddlers do not understand that they can't have some thing that someone else has. If they want something, they often just grab it. I can see that if you are always modling, you might have less grabbing, but to NEVER have this issue... Wow, you must have some pretty unique, amazing babies/toddlers if you don't ever see them trying to take a toy from some one else.


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## bright_eyes (Dec 7, 2007)

So what _do_ you do when two kids have their hands on the same object and both refuse to let go? Wait until one lets up, in hopes that no one gets hurt, and then what? And then what do you do if the 'loser' owns the object, won't be consoled, and the other child won't give up the object?


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I went to a play group with very AP-oriented mamas where toys are routinely snatched, sometimes rather aggressively. In fact, it's one of the reasons I stopped going, b/c there wasn't much done about it.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KYCat* 
"Ma'am we've told the thief that you'd really like your car back but they have decided that they still don't want to give it back. We have even mentioned that you're crying. We're very sorry, let's cuddle. There's really nothing else to be done."
.


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## neveryoumindthere (Mar 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KYCat* 
I do not think that my first ever snatched a toy. He was and is a watcher and that just isn't his personality. My second wasn't really grabby but would on occasion grab. I think because at this age they do not see the personhood of the other person so if someone is holding a good toy - it's almost like it's on a display shelf. So, here I would say nicely, Oh X looks very upset, it's not nice to yank toys out of someone's hands. Would you like to return it to X or would you like for me to help you? I might follow up with Could Y have a turn with that when your finished Y? I'm ready for flaming but if Y gets to keep the toy that is permissive. It's gentle, it can be instructive, but it is what it is. I read this thread last night and this has been bothering me all night. The adult/child comparisons are wacky but if you are going to make one, the child has not decided to love and trust this "friend" for the rest of their life and has no overwhelming personal feelings for this person due to their toddlerness. A better comparison to me would be "*Ma'am we've told the thief that you'd really like your car back but they have decided that they still don't want to give it back. We have even mentioned that you're crying. We're very sorry, let's cuddle. There's really nothing else to be done."*Too crunchy for mainstream too mainstream for Mothering. Time to be off the computer for awhile.


You.are.awesome.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:

I'm sorry, but grabbing is completely age appropriate and happens, regardless of how kids are parented. I decided when ds was a baby not to grab things out of his hands if it was at all possible. I find it a little offensive that you seem to assume that kids who grab toys from others do so because they were shown how to do so from their parents always grabbing things from them.
Yes - it is age appropriate...I do think I said that in an earlier post?...maybe I didnt, but I never said it wasnt. I also never said it was as black and white as you are making it out to sound - I used that as an example because basically - it does not surprise me at all that 'snatching' is so much of an issue...or an issue enough we have to ask other people for advice on it...when we are completly ignoring the fact that a big part of the problem is that as the parents, we are not modeling appropriate behaviour for our children...by also snatching (or if you want to sugar coat it and call such behaviour 'gentle removing') from our children when they snatch a toy from another child. I have replied to toy snatching issue on this forum many times, I always say its best to model the behaviour to our child and make sure that we are also never snatching from them...and then theres and 'Ohhh...' from the OP about it as it was a thought overlooked. ...so it doesnt seem that theres any coinscidence to me at all about children who have a toy snatching 'problem' belong to those parents who are constantly 'gently removing' items from their children.

I also never said that you ignore your childs behaviour if they are the one snatching - or you ignore it when they do not give the toy back. You work with them, you talk to them in a non shaming way... but I did say never to force...this includes removing items from their gasping little fingers (gently or otherwise - its snatching). This may mean they dont give the toy back, this may mean there are tears from both parties. Yes, I would comfort and deal with the offended child first, but I would never just let the ofender walk away without a word.

I gave my advice - the OP can take it or leave it. I have personally seen how it works and I still stand by not snatching back from a child - gently removing...however you want to justify it - whatever. This post is getting a bit childish IMO and slightly off topic so I am leaving this now and going to focus my energy elsewhere.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Grabbing Our Way To Peace


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

From Sledg's article:

_If Jacob had not shifted, I would have turned to Ray to see if he would shift._
(Ray being the 3 yo who did not want Jacob to take his car home with him).

Something about that really bothers me. I have a difficult time recognizing the "choice" that Jacob has in returning the car, because _Ray doesn't want him to take his car home_. It doesn't feel right to me to turn to Ray and see if he would "shift," especially if he has already okayed Jacob taking an alternative toy home (very generous, imo!). I feel that his "no" should be respected, because it is his toy.

When dd was 2-6, we had a big group of like-aged friends. These children all loved to "trade" toys after a playdate--and they enjoyed borrowing as well as lending toys until the next playdate. But the owner of the toy always had "veto" about any given toy any given day, and that was always, always respected. The adults attitude was simply "R said that is a special toy this week. How about you choose another toy?" The author of the article attributes Ray's ease in sharing toys to NVC, and I attribute our dc's ease in sharing toys to always having a special toy respected without question. The "rule" was the same for everyone. Everyone had a right to say no to a specific toy, and that no was always backed up by the adults. This never involved taking toys out of dc's hands, because our dc were past that stage by then--even though I did "gently remove" toys from dd's hand when she was younger. It was never a big issue, and she matured out of the grabby stage as expected.

I guess what I am saying is, I don't think that there is only one "right" way to handle this. The NVC way will work well for some families/groups, and a more authoritative way will work better for other groups. Both can be done gently and with full consideration of everyone's feelings, and both can result in generous children. At the same time, from my perspective, neither approach is perfect, and both have potential downsides.

I don't subscribe to the "adult-child" analogies, generally....but for those who do, if someone asked if they could borrow your car, your computer, or your favorite skillet that you use daily, wouldn't you want them to respect the answer no? I just feel that, in situations like this, if the answer is no it is no. If the asker has an issue with that, it is the asker's issue to deal with, kwim?


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

I agree that there is no one, single, infallible "right way" to do things.

What I take from that article is that it's possible to do this without taking the toy from the hands of the child who did the grabbing. Indeed, this is how we ended up dealing with grabbing when my third child was a "grabby" toddler. Our advantage was that the grabbing happened between siblings, at home (usually), so there was little in the way of embarrassment or pressure for me or for them-and we were able to take our time working through it (a couple of minutes) without actually getting to the point of taking the toy back out of her hands.

What I took from the article regarding choice was more that Jacob was given the choice to have *autonomy over his own body*, not that he should have the choice to keep what Ray did not want him to keep (I took from the article, too, that if she'd asked Ray to shift and he did not want to, she would have respected Ray's choice not to shift and looked to another solution).

In our home, the child who had the toy initially (who was grabbed from) had the right to say "no." The child who did grab might, while still holding the toy, ask for a turn (when prompted-and I don't think it's _always_ wrong to ask that the child who initially had the toy reconsider letting the other child use it), but the child who grabbed was always expected to respect "no" as an answer. In that case, there were options like trading for another toy-which sometimes worked. The rest of the time, what worked was simply for me to wait expectantly ("waiting for the bus") until it was given back. Authoritative, I think so--it was always made very clear that grabbing was not right, that we expect our kids to ask and/or wait their turn, that we expected the grabber to return the toy to the grabbee. Yet it was authoritative without the physical act of taking it from her hands against her will, which may seem like a minor thing but which didn't sit super well with my desire to teach her not to take things from others against their will. Kids learn _so much_ from watching what we _do_. That's just me.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

I have had a lot of success with the idea of trading toys. Many times I would give my toy snatching child another similar toy to go over to the other child and "trade" with.

Sometimes she would offer the trade. Sometimes she would be distracted and play with the new toy. Rarely did it get further than that. If it did I would just work on helping DD to be patient and everyone involved would agree to letting DD be next.

I agree with the pp's that said if nobody seemed upset than there is no need for action. Sometimes we parents are guilty of creating a problem where none exists. We are talking about toddlers here. Toy snatching WILL happen but it's not always traumatic.

I have had many experiences at the park where another parent's insistence that their child share at all costs has ruined a nice play experience.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sledg* 
Yet it was authoritative without the physical act of taking it from her hands against her will, which may seem like a minor thing but which didn't sit super well with my desire to teach her not to take things from others against their will. .

Ok, I can understand that and see that working. What I don't always get from these articles and discussions, though, is the expectation to return the item. It makes much more sense to me when that is explicitly included (as in the "waiting for the bus" strategy, when other strategies have fallen flat).

I guess I have trouble reconciling choice with expectation. I see it as a point of honesty; I only phrase it as a choice when there is an actual choice in my mind. If the item must be returned, then it isn't really a choice to me. Even if the object isn't physically removed, the handoff may be coerced through social pressure (which isn't nec a bad thing, imo). Over time, and having the dc I have, I have realized that it can be better (for us) to just "rip off the bandaid" so to speak and get past a situation....which can mean me removing the object and helping my dc move on *now*, rather than going through the emotional angst of talking it through and unhappily handing it over in the end.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

This is an area where I don't mind being coercive. If you don't coerce child #2 to give up the toy, then child #1 has been coerced by having the toy taken away when it shouldn't have been. Because of what? Child #2 is more of a snatcher? My sense of justice just can't handle that. Child #1 has no rights? If child #1 doesn't care, then no problem. But what has child #1 learned if no one stands up for him/her? And kids that age have no impulse control. My daughter might have punched child #2 I don't think she would have accepted that someone just didn't want to give the toy back. Maybe she would have just snatched it back from child #2. And then child #2 could snatch it back again, and she could snatch it back again, and that could go on for a while till someone hit someone or had a tantrum. Anyway, it's not fair and I think very young kids can see what's fair or not pretty well.

I use distraction. "Oh, you wanted to play with XXXX. Too bad Tommy was already playing with it. Here's YYYY. (quick switch) Maybe you'd like to play with that for a bit until Tommy finishes playing with XXXX."


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
This is an area where I don't mind being coercive. If you don't coerce child #2 to give up the toy, then child #1 has been coerced by having the toy taken away when it shouldn't have been. Because of what? Child #2 is more of a snatcher? My sense of justice just can't handle that. Child #1 has no rights? If child #1 doesn't care, then no problem. But what has child #1 learned if no one stands up for him/her? And kids that age have no impulse control. My daughter might have punched child #2 I don't think she would have accepted that someone just didn't want to give the toy back. Maybe she would have just snatched it back from child #2. And then child #2 could snatch it back again, and she could snatch it back again, and that could go on for a while till someone hit someone or had a tantrum. Anyway, it's not fair and I think very young kids can see what's fair or not pretty well.

I use distraction. "Oh, you wanted to play with XXXX. Too bad Tommy was already playing with it. Here's YYYY. (quick switch) Maybe you'd like to play with that for a bit until Tommy finishes playing with XXXX."

Yes, through all this talk of not gently removing object from the "snatcher" i couldn't help but wonder how this all looks to the "snatchee".

I have "gently removed" items from my son's hand often -- he now loves to take turns and we never have "snatching" issues.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
Ok, I can understand that and see that working. What I don't always get from these articles and discussions, though, is the expectation to return the item. It makes much more sense to me when that is explicitly included (as in the "waiting for the bus" strategy, when other strategies have fallen flat).

I guess I have trouble reconciling choice with expectation. I see it as a point of honesty; I only phrase it as a choice when there is an actual choice in my mind. If the item must be returned, then it isn't really a choice to me. Even if the object isn't physically removed, the handoff may be coerced through social pressure (which isn't nec a bad thing, imo). Over time, and having the dc I have, I have realized that it can be better (for us) to just "rip off the bandaid" so to speak and get past a situation....which can mean me removing the object and helping my dc move on *now*, rather than going through the emotional angst of talking it through and unhappily handing it over in the end.

Well, for me and my family in this situation I freely admit that there really isn't a choice about giving the item back-that is my expectation. Our way of resolving it felt peaceful though, and offered the opportunity for connection in a way in which taking the toy from her hand would not have (btdt with my oldest when she was a toddler, not a good connection time).

The larger point I took from that particular article--the main point, for me--was that if we slow down, if we're willing to listen to our kids and accept their feelings and show them respect, and if we convey to our kids that we do trust them to do the right thing, very often (though not always) they _will_ do the right thing. It's not about getting them to do what we want (though they very well may and often do) through talking to them a certain way--it's about creating a quality of connection that allows them (that allows both of us) to freely give. So it's not necessarily about whether Jacob actually gets to (or should) keep Ryan's car, it's about slowing down and creating a kind of connection with Jacob--and this is a connection that likely will allow him to let go of the car (as opposed to clinging to it reflexively in response to a command to give it back).

I'm having trouble articulating it. And obviously, the experience of one family cannot be generalized to all families. It is really interesting, though, how differently people can perceive an article to be saying, isn't it?


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sledg* 
It is really interesting, though, how differently people can perceive an article to be saying, isn't it?

Yes, it is! I sometimes wonder how much depends on the way that we were raised, and how we experienced our childhood. Interesting discussion!


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## jdmcgee (Apr 12, 2007)

I agree...great reply... lol


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## Carlyle (Mar 31, 2007)

I've read Sledg's article before too and I really love that approach when I can get it to work (and when the other kids' parents are willing to "sit" with things too and let it take the time-and tears-that it needs to). I've also found that I have more success using this method if there are two adults involved (so that one adult can hold/hug/calm each kid so that they can relax and trust that we're going to help them work it out).

I have more trouble though when one or both of the kids are screaming so loud that nobody can hear what's being said. Or if I'm the only adult and one kid is screaming and the other kid is running away with the toy. Or if both kids are pulling on the same toy and both screaming their heads off.

Anyone have suggestions for these types of situations? Do you put a kid on each knee and hold them both and whisper to them that you are there to help until they calm down enough?

I was in one situation where the other mom and I were trying to do this, but her dd was getting more and more hysterical when the object wasn't returned to her...then my dd was getting more and more hysterical kind of feeding off of the other girl's hysterical energy. It just kept spiraling upwards (even though we were trying to use this same approach) until we took the object away. Then they both immediately calmed down. It was weird.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but I agree that there's no "silver bullet" or "right" way to do things all the time, but I'm really enjoying reading other people's ideas about different ways to deal with the same situation. I'm sure that sometimes I will have patience for things that take more time, and sometimes I won't. And sometimes it will be better for the kids to decrease the tension by taking the toy away for a minute or so (like in the above example). Hm. Keep the stories coming...


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
This is an area where I don't mind being coercive. If you don't coerce child #2 to give up the toy, then child #1 has been coerced by having the toy taken away when it shouldn't have been. Because of what? Child #2 is more of a snatcher? My sense of justice just can't handle that. Child #1 has no rights? If child #1 doesn't care, then no problem. But what has child #1 learned if no one stands up for him/her?









:

I am okay with my children seeing me model using force in order protect someone (or their property or their rights) who can't protect themselves. If nothing else has worked, yes, I will physically remove the toy and return it to the original possesor.

I do not want to model standing by while someone hurts someone else (physically or emotionally). I believe that if I have the power to stop it, I should (and will!). Now, if there's a way to do that without physically taking the toy yourself, that's much better, and if the original possesor doesn't care, then there's no harm done. But as an adult with the size, strength, and reasoning capacity to make the situation "right" for the victim, I firmly believe it's my *responsibility* to do so.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kathteach* 
I'm in a similar situation as Elissa so I would like to hear from more mamas too.

DS1 who is two will grab a toy from DS2 who is 8 months old and scream when I ask him to give it back. To pacify DS2 I find something he will like but DS1 will immediately want the new toy because his brother has it and so on and so on. I would like a better way of dealing with this.

We have the same situation.


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