# 2 yr old bad behavior at daycare - how to discipline?



## JilliesMom (Sep 25, 2006)

So I picked up DD today & got this awful report that she didn't listen all day and when her teacher asked her to do anything she refused & just screamed. She wouldn't sit down, was pushing others, and refused to color! So the teacher left me a note to talk with her and to have her color her 2 pages and bring them back on Monday.

I have been talking to her about how she must listen and do as her teacher says and I'm trying to get her to color these pictures & she just won't do it! She wants to go to the football game w/DH tonight & I told her she can't go until she does her pictures and I also won't turn on Dora. So far nothing is working. How do I get the point across to her, how much of it will she comprehend, and how much will last til Monday?

Any ideas? This is new territory for me, she's usually great at daycare. I'm wondering if maybe her ears are bothering her again, but still she has to learn that she needs to listen & can't scream at her teacher, even if she feels bad!


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## Mama2 '05'06 (Mar 5, 2006)

I think she's just being a normal 2 yr old. I know 4 yr olds that can't sit and color a picture and that yell and don't listen. Maybe the teacher is expecting too much? Just my thought.







Maybe it would help for you to sit with her and color with her. Maybe she is just having a rough day. My dd does that some days - she won't listen or do what she's told and cries about everything. Usually she needs sleep, food, or to have a bm. So that's what I say to myself- food, nap, or poop? Hope it gets better for you.


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama2 '05'06* 
Maybe the teacher is expecting too much? Just my thought.









Sounds like it to me!!! Giving her colouring "homework" cause she wouldn't do it in class?!?!?!!!







:







:







: She's TWO YEARS OLD!!!


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## Fiddlemom (Oct 22, 2003)

Sounds like a normal 2 1/2 yo to me. My son is 5.5 and only in the last year has he really gotten the hang of sitting down and coloring, and only with help.

The yelling, the screaming, the defiance...I'm afraid it all sounds normal to me. ITA w/ PP that teacher's expectations are not entirely age-appropriate.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JilliesMom* 
So the teacher left me a note to talk with her and to have her color her 2 pages and bring them back on Monday.

!

You have got to be kidding!! LOL








Surely the teacher didn't meant it. Right????? SURELY she meant "Oh, here is the pictures she CHOSE not to color, in case she changes HER mind." Right???? MAYBE you missed her sarcasm???????

She is Two. Two year olds have a mind of their own that works perfectly well. She is also not in first grade. I would tell the teacher that she CHOSE not to do the pictures, but thankyou anyway. Keep the pictures in her pile of paper that she can color if she wants to. but, if she never wants to, who cares? In the long run, it isn't for a grade, and it wont keep her out of college.

Let her have a fun weekend. On Monday remind her that you need her to follow the rules. But remind the teacher that if she CHOOSES not to color a flippin picture, that that is O.K, as long as she isn't running amok and tearing pictures out of the other kid's hands. Who cares???

Sorry if I sound flippant about this, but she has at least 12 years of school where homework and classwork isn't a choice, so while she is two, she should be allowed to be two.


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## JilliesMom (Sep 25, 2006)

Thanks for the fast feedback, I don't post here a lot but I knew this was the place to come for advice! My other online mommy friends don't always get my parenting style, lol.

Well, DD started screaming & throwing a tantrum when I wouldn't let her do play-dough so we had a little time out & then lots of hugs & loves & we sat down & she agreed to do her picture when I offered markers instead of crayons, lol. It probably doesn't help that I teach high schoolers w/behavioral & emotional problems so I'm very natural-consequence oriented.

ITA that she was just having a bad day - she was up too late last night (but that's another thread, lol) - but I wanted her to know that we will follow through at home if she acts out at school, kwim? Her teacher is generally very accepting of normal toddler behavior so it must've been pretty bad for her to leave me a bad note. I'm going to let her go watch football w/Daddy for a little bit & then get her to bed.


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## townmouse (May 3, 2004)

Two is a baby. I don't understand this at all.


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## mint (May 24, 2005)

Wow, I really think the teacher is the problem here. Especially demanding the child bring the pictures back colored. Sounds like a lot of pressure for a 2 year old.

I also can't understand telling a 2 year old that if she doesn't do what the teacher wanted her to do that she can't spend time with her daddy doing something else later. The two events have nothing to do with each other and spending time with her daddy is a positive thing.

Instead have you considered that your child's needs aren't being met where you are taking her? Or something happened that day and your child isn't being properly understood?

Also, if the coloring is so important how about coloring it in with her and making it a fun activity so coloring won't become an issue in the future.


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## embers (Mar 24, 2006)

Give your baby a break for *-sake?!

Let her watch some damn Dora. Put her in a different childcare. Realize she is acting normal, and honor that.


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## dillonandmarasmom (May 30, 2005)

This teacher is expecting 2 year olds to follow directions???? This teacher has way too unrealistic expectations...amd homework??? PLEASE don't waste your time trying to get her to do this. Clearly she is not enjoying it. Your daughter is a wonderful little one who is exploring her world. It is completely unfair to expect these things from her.
Man, this teacher is making WAY too much stress for herself and others. Mybe for x-mas you could buy her a Dr. Sears book...just a thought.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *townmouse* 
Two is a baby. I don't understand this at all.

Yeah, I'm very confused. Why would anyone care if a two year old colored or not when asked to? How is not letting a two year old go to an outing with daddy a natural consequence? My youngest is nearing 2.5yo and I in no way can comprehend the scenario in the OP. If he stops drawing on the wall when I ask him to I'm happy.

Tell the teacher that as long as your 2yo isn't hurting herself or anyone else she doesn't need to worry.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Many 2 yos I know eat crayons.

This daycare sounds WAY too stressful for any 2 yo I've met. Even if this appears to be an isolated event, I would seek a new provider. I would worry that any child that has to deal with those kind of expectations on a regular basis is going to have a serious distain for any sort of organized education in the future (at the least).


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## JilliesMom (Sep 25, 2006)

Well we did sit down & color the page together, with markers, which made her pretty happy. Then we ate pizza & she went to the game w/Daddy. I guess I need to react a little more slowly next time, because I'm sure she was just having a bad day, and maybe her teacher was too, as a teacher I know that happens!

It really is an excellent daycare though, she's never had more than 5 other kids in her class, and her teachers have always been grandmotherly-like. I can promise you I would pull her out ASAP if I really thought there was a problem. I think I'll have a talk w/her teacher on Monday about how DD's bad behavior *always* has a reason behind it - any time she's not listening & screaming all day long always ends up because she's sick or just didn't get enough sleep. And power struggles never work, so the next time she should just let her not color, I'm sure if she sits there long enough watching everyone else coloring & if the teacher isn't arguing with her, she'll eventually dive right in!


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

I would change the daycare.









I don't think these nice ladies understand child development or appropriate child development practices.

My children are in a developmentally appropriate (not academic) "preschool." It's really a "Parent Education" program that is run like a co-op (parents have their work days.)

Nobody at our school would ever hand a child an already drawn on page to "color in." Two year olds on up get a blank page to paint on (oh no! gasp! too messy!) water color, sponge paint, hand paint (yes, my daughter LOVES to paint her hands and stamp her hands, she RARELY gets it on herself, she doesn't even wear a smock) or stamp... and... there is free choice. They can choose to paint/color or not. Maybe they prefer the playdough table and stay there, until clean up time/snack time.

Another big problem I have with the crayons is that their little hands might not be ready to hold a small writing instrument correctly. Are they teaching them to write or something?







No, they can't be that backwards.

Daycare by itself can be stressful. New expectations, new routines can be stressful. Anything stress (a little gets the toy you were eyeing before you get there) during the day can build up and result in - tantrums and meltdowns. It's normal. She's not "bad." She doesn't need to be punished.

And you are right... you need to get to the source of the problem. I don't think you need "discipline" right now. You need understanding of what her issues are right now with her environment. She's coming into her own... she has her own interests and maybe this place isn't the right place, right now.

Aletha Solter gave a talk where she discussed the "broken cookie" phenomenon. Child gets dropped off at daycare (sadness, she'd rather stay with mom). Child doesn't get to her favorite swing first.... and on and on... she holds it all together pretty well, until she gets home. Mom and child have snack. Child says, "can I have a cookie?" Mom says Sure. She gets one, but it's the last one and cracked. Child has a meltdown on the floor.

Aletha Solter on the Disadvantages of Time Out
http://www.awareparenting.com/timeout.htm

AS on the Broken Cookie Phenomenon (Understanding Tears & Tantrums)
http://www.awareparenting.com/tantrums.htm

Are they giving her time outs? If so that is so totally inappropriate and sad for her.


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## sofiabugmom (Sep 23, 2003)

A 2yo who didn't want to sit down and color on command? Sounds normal to me, bad day or not.

I'd pull my child from that daycare in a heartbeat. Having a toddler bring back homework as a behaviorial consequence is too controlling IMO.


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## JilliesMom (Sep 25, 2006)

Quote:

Are they giving her time outs? If so that is so totally inappropriate and sad for her.
What would you recommend they do when a child is pushing other kids & screaming at everyone? I do time-outs at home when she is just really getting upset to the point of not even remembering why she got mad in the first place and is totally out of control. I don't enforce any time limits but she stays there until she can calm down, with or without my help depending on the situation, and then we say sorry & hug each other tight & move on with a new and better mood.


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## Aeress (Jan 25, 2005)

how about time ins? time ins allow for the child and parent to calm and when the child is ready- to talk.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

That is not a great daycare or a great teacher. It is SERIOUSLY warped if they think it's at all appropriate to make 2 yr olds do ANYTHING. Much less send them home with make up work? What the heck? Timeouts are not age appropriate either at that age.

I would find a different daycare that one is bad news.

-Angela


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

I thought coloring was supposed to be fun. It shouldn't be _work_ at any age, let alone 2. I would find a new daycare ASAP--this sounds really unfair to your dd.

And I certainly wouldn't punish her for this!!!! She's not doing anything wrong. She's being 2.

(And for the record, if your kid was 10 and didn't want to color a picture, why would you make her? This just sounds like teacher is a control freak.)


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## LoveChild421 (Sep 10, 2004)

I teach 2-year-olds at a daycare/preschool. I do not agree with her teacher pushing the issue so much. She didn't want to color? So what? This age is all about asserting their independence and exploring and doing what they want to do. Sure, some boundaries are necessary (don't climb up on the tables and jump off onto your friend's head please, do not hit anyone, don't tear all the artwork off the wall, etc) but if my kids don't want to do an activity I don't force them to. IMO the daycare I work for places too much emphasis on "structure and discipline" and not enough on exploration and respecting the independence of the child- I think it's like that at a lot of daycares. I have a B.A. in Psychology, most of the teachers I work with have not had any formal education in child development and don't understand how to see things from the child's perspective. They think they have to "train" them to "behave" or else "they'll be 7 years old and still never follow directions"







Her teacher needs more education on developmental stages and what is appropriate at each stage. It is important to remember that she is just a 2 year old and her response was probably just her trying to assert that "I matter, I can make up my own mind, I should be able to make my own choices" If she was feeling sick it was probably more like "darn it I'm sick and I don't feel like doing this crap right now, I want to go laydown on the little couch and read a book and be comfy" KWIM?
If I were you I would try to find another daycare (hard as that can be) or talk to the director about getting the teacher some education on what is developmentally appropriate. I would worry about the teacher being mean to my child if I were you, because she obviously doesn't "get" 2 year olds if she thinks not coloring on demand is a "problem" that needs punishing with homework.
I personally don't give timeouts unless the child is being violent (for instance we have one child who likes to bite hard enough to draw blood and sometimes he needs to be separated from the group to cool off.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JilliesMom* 
What would you recommend they do when a child is pushing other kids & screaming at everyone? I do time-outs at home when she is just really getting upset to the point of not even remembering why she got mad in the first place and is totally out of control. I don't enforce any time limits but she stays there until she can calm down, with or without my help depending on the situation, and then we say sorry & hug each other tight & move on with a new and better mood.

Well, I think they should be more proactive and distract her or be there in the middle of the two kids before it gets that far. I've only ever sent my dd to one true "daycare", like a center, and it was crappy. But even there they didn't punish anybody else's kids. They just used redirection. Ideally, I think the provider would be there talking it out with your frustrated little dd, asking her why she felt so mad as to push and helping provide her with appropriate ways to deal with her frustration and with the other kids.

But you aren't really specifiying what kind of time out they're doing, so maybe it really is just a cool-down. I think time out means lots of different things to different people, YKWIM?


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JilliesMom* 
What would you recommend they do when a child is pushing other kids & screaming at everyone?

I recommend they step in teach Conflict Resolution on the spot. This is totally do-able at this age and I do it with my daughter and her friends all the time.

This article by Bev Bos explains Conflict Resolution.
http://www.turnthepage.com/articles.php?pid=2

I wrote a long-winded, inarticule Amazon book review explaining Sharing here:
http://tinyurl.com/vobcz

I'm in the middle of breakfast right now. I'll give you an example of Conflict Resolution with Toddlers fighting/shoving over toys later.

Time-Ins are better than TO. From Aletha Solter again:

Quote:

14. REMOVE YOUR CHILD FROM THE SITUATION AND STAY WITH HER.
_Use the time for listening, sharing feelings, holding, and conflict-resolution._

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JilliesMom* 
I do time-outs at home when she is just really getting upset to the point of not even remembering why she got mad in the first place and is totally out of control.

That's common. Becky Baily author of







"Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline" explains that when children and adults are threatened, they stop using their higher thinking brain (reason) and resort to "fight or fight" their reptilian brain. So she is too busy fighting/defending herself to act reasonably. Everybody needs to calm down.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JilliesMom* 
I think I'll have a talk w/her teacher on Monday about how DD's bad behavior *always* has a reason behind it - any time she's not listening & screaming all day long always ends up because she's sick or just didn't get enough sleep. And power struggles never work, so the next time she should just let her not color, I'm sure if she sits there long enough watching everyone else coloring & if the teacher isn't arguing with her, she'll eventually dive right in!


You should not have to tell her those things.

My DS is older than your DD, and I would never expect him to sit and color if he didn't want to.

The fact that your teacher expected you to somehow handle it at home, after the fact, is a big sign too. If what she's doing isn't working, she needs to change what she's doing. If she has a discipline issue, she needs to handle it in her classroom. It's not YOUR job to try to do HER job for her... way after the fact when it wouldn't be effective anyway, especially for a 2 year old.

Honestly, these would be huge red flags for me. I'm sure the format is really good, sounds like she doesn't have too many kids. But I would encourage to think about what her expectations are for a 2 year old and whether they are really appropriate.

Also, if you are natural consequence oriented, I am not sure why you kept imposing consequences on your DD because she wouldn't color (who the F cares if she won't color anyway? it's not a chore). Honestly, there is nothing natural consequence oriented about that at all. You were having to punish her for something her teacher should have dealt with.

And, her teacher should have dealt with it by saying "You don't feel like coloring? No big deal... maybe you'll feel like it later" or something along those lines. I can't believe she actually sent the pictures home to be colored "later"!


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JilliesMom* 
So I picked up DD today & got this awful report that she didn't listen all day and when her teacher asked her to do anything she refused & just screamed. She wouldn't sit down, was pushing others, and refused to color! So the teacher left me a note to talk with her and to have her color her 2 pages and bring them back on Monday.

Coming in late, but omg! It's daycare, not highschool!
The whole school system bothers me, but now they are extending it to babies! Geez.
The only thing in that paragraph that I would deal with personally is the pushing others. And possibly the not sitting down (if it was supposed to be a quiet time for all the kids). But then, I'd bet that the not sitting down came AFTER the teacher tried to force her to do meaningless tasks.
I'd also probably be willing to let go of the pushing/not sitting if it was a one time thing. There's nothing you can do to change what already happened, and chances are it's not likely to happen that way again (you said your dd was generally "good" at daycare).

I would personally go back Monday and tell the teacher- thanks for the offer, but my ds chose not to color the pictures. Perhaps he'll want to color them some other time. And just ignore the fact that she wanted it back. But that's my passive aggressive nature. lol


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yooper* 
This daycare sounds WAY too stressful for any 2 yo I've met..











Is there another classroom you could tranfer into?


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## JilliesMom (Sep 25, 2006)

Maybe I SHOULD clarify a bit, the way I've seen them use time-outs is just to have the child sit down somewhere, away from the hubub of whatever is going on (remove from the situation) - until the child gets calmed down, then they talk to them & they rejoin the group. I've hung out in her room at pickup time, which is obviously the most stressful time of day, and the teacher does LOTS of redirection and reminders.

I think ya'll are focusing too much on the coloring, that was only one incident out of an entire bad day, kwim? If she's screaming & pushing kids & just overall feeling grumpy & giving everyone a hard time, I don't see the problem in a time out to regroup or even just so the other kids can do the activity without her being in the middle of things feeling upset & mad.

I think I will talk w/her teacher on Monday about alternate ways of handling this behavior should it come up again. Because honestly this isn't common. Maybe I took it a little too seriously - I'll have to be careful in the future to make a defined switch from self-contained teacher to Mommy mode.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JilliesMom* 
What would you recommend they do when a child is pushing other kids & screaming at everyone? I do time-outs at home when she is just really getting upset to the point of not even remembering why she got mad in the first place and is totally out of control. I don't enforce any time limits but she stays there until she can calm down, with or without my help depending on the situation, and then we say sorry & hug each other tight & move on with a new and better mood.

At my son's former preschool (which was age 3 and up), the very first way that they delt with a child acting out was to head it off before it started. They knew each child very well, knew their triggers, things that upset them or were stressful for them, and worked through those things with them. They offered alternatives, worked through situations with the child. If a child did get out of control, they went with the child to a quiet area and stayed with them while they calmed down. No child was ever punished. Nor was any child forced to participate in any activity.

At home, we pretty much handle things the same way. If I see ds2 starting to get upset about something, I try to either make it work for him, or work through the upset with him. I empathize, I hug. There were times when he didn't want me to hug him, and wanted instead to flail on the floor, so I would gently lay him down and be next to him while he did that. (That phase actually only lasted a few months, and he hasn't done that since.)

Start digging around on these boards, and you will find a lot of awesome discussion about time outs, discipline theories, and child development.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

One question- do they make a crying child sit in time-out? (I'm picturing what I see on Supernanny). Or do they take the child's feelings on time outs into account?
One method- the chill out time out, would be ok imo. Kids *can* go sit and chill out, but are not forced if they refuse, and they can have someone with them if they choose.
The other way is punitive- if they MUST go sit, whether they like it or not, and they must be alone.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Honestly, I would also pull my child from this daycare. I don't have a problem with a daycare teacher telling me that DD has had a hard day, but sending her home with "homework" as a "punishment" just completely blows my mind, and not in a good way. Who the heck cares if she colors it?? She's two!


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

If you're going to keep her in daycare, I'd recommend getting the childcare worker she's with a copy of Positive Discipline for Preschoolers.


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