# advice please - dh strict & controlling attitude



## newmum35 (Aug 16, 2007)

I was very disturbed to overhear something my husband said to our son yesterday. I was working downstairs but had the monitor on which lets me hear or see his bedroom if I need to. He is 5 and dh was trying to get him to not to get more toys out. Dh will be 50 this year and was raised by parents who were the age of my grandparents generation (born 1920s) since I am younger than him by almost 9 years. He was youngest in his family (6 kids) his dad was a minister so he comes from a very religious background. Although he does not spank or hit and plays wonderfully with our son, there are times he seems to have this strict, disciplinarian, controlling attitude and I can't stand it but also can't say anything about it to him because he gets very upset. He cannot take any form of advice, he interprets it as criticism which he can not take no matter how nicely worded.

Its like he wants to drill into our sons head that he is not the boss in the house and that he has to do whatever mama or papa says. He often tells him how important it is to obey Mama and Papa whenever he doesn't listen, which I dont' think is terrible advice really, but its sometimes about things that aren't so important. Its not like he was running out into street but he chose not to obey when dh didnt want him to get a specific toy out that he wanted to get out in order to further his play (my son is very creative and builds elaborate things using his toys)

So my son was happily playing with his toys on the floor of his bedroom making something while dh was resting on his bed. Several times he went out of the room to get another toy he wanted to add. Even though he wasn't doing anything wrong and it wasn't cleanup time (4:30pm) dh decided right then and there that was just enough toys out at once so told him NO he couldn't go get any more toys and that if he did he would see what happens (I dont even think my son understood what he meant by this) Son didn't listen, he went out and returned with something else he needed to finish building and dh says he is going to be punished for a week (no computer games or tv time together) and he will learn to obey next time.

Then dh goes out and got quite a few of the toys he was playing with earlier in another room that were still out on the floor and "hid" them somewhere as further punishment. Then he lectured him on obeying parents, etc. and ended with "I love you" as he often does during punishments. I really hate when he does this as I fear our son will learn to associate the phrase with a loved one hurting him. I was never brought up this way and "I love you" was something that was never said in the context of conflict or disagreements, etc. & was always said during good times not bad actually we didn't use it that much or say this as a daily ritual, we just always knew we were loved. I was also never brought up with fear of punishments. I was never grounded & only learned what the term meant from my friends who were. We didn't do that in our house, we also didnt spank or hit. Got yelled at, maybe sent to room.

After he drilled it into his head that HE (dh) was the boss, and that son had to obey him, my son replied with "I am the boss of my toys" at which point dh said "Who's house is this?" and there was a long pause. My son finally said "I live here too."

It was a very awkward conversation to listen to and it took everything I had to not to run upstairs and give my son a big hug and tell him that this IS his house. In a matter of minutes he had gone from a happily playing busy little boy content occupying himself while dh rested quietly nearby, to sitting on the floor dawdling his fingers, too afraid to play with anything else! I do think that my husband has good intentions and really believes his way of handling things and controlling our son will teach him good things and help him grow up into a better person. I think he is afraid if he doesn't "teach" him to "obey" in various ways then he will turn out to be a bad person. I think this is ridiculous but this is apparently what dh believes.

I was also heartbroken this evening during bath time (dh was relieved by then & I was supervising) when my son while playing in the tub mentioned something about pirates being bad guys and I replied "I wonder why they are bad" and he said "They were bad when they were little and didn't listen and grew up bad" and to which I said "little kids are usually good, they might not always listen but they aren't bad. Sometimes they can grow up to be bad though" and he said "but I am bad" at which time I told him (& this is not the first time I have had this conversation with him) that he was NOT bad, he was very good. Then he said "But I don't listen or obey" and I replied "sometimes you don't always listen but you're not bad." I don't think he believed me.

He has this mindset now that he is a bad boy even though dh never said those words to my knowledge, but this is the message our son is getting. He is also very self conscious about doing some things in front of him. Shortly after this incident (I never told anyone I had the monitor on so nobody knew I had overheard anything) my son & I were eating cheese sticks at the table and I said I wonder if he could separate the orange & white colors or cut them apart or something like that, and he asked if he could cut them with a butterknife and I said yes go get one. But as he crept over slowly to the drawer he kept looking into the living room to see if dh was there (he was) and he came back to the table and asked me to get the knife for him. I went and got it for him but when I got back to the table I asked him why he didnt get it and he said he "didn't want papa to see me getting the butterknife." I think he thought it would meet with his disapproval or something, I don't know if there had been a butterknife incident in the past or if he was still on edge from earlier. I decided to change the subject so we began talking about something else and he was fine after that until the bathtub incident.

Ok so this brings me to why I came here. I need some advice about what to say to my son to heal the damage that the comment about "Whos house is this?" might have caused. That really bothers me. I don't want to bring up the incident or to let him know I overheard but I want him to believe that this is his house and not always feel like this is his parents house. I don't EVER remember hearing this phrase growing up and I'm quite horrified. My son is very sensitive and I know he's never going to forget that comment made by his father. Am I making too much out of this? Do I just let it go? Would you ever say that to your young child to get them to do what you wanted or to behave a certain way or to prove a point about something? I think his point was that he (dh) lives in the house too and doesnt like too many toys on the floor and son should have some respect and pick up the toys when asked and not to get more out when asked (even if it is in his own room!)

Also, I want to know if there any cds or dvds that may help with better parenting techniques or alternatives? (dh would never read a book) - I am getting so sick of hearing about punishments. This was a non issue when I grew up and a word we didn't even use. I don't ever rememeber being punished but I remember once my sister was (she didn't get to go to a movie as she hit me while we were going out the door to the movies!) but it was sort of a spur of the moment thing and not something thought up carefully. This was the only time I ever remember a punishment dished out and there were 4 kids. Apparently dh grew up in a family with lots of discipline and punishment is a word he heard lots of (he uses it a lot) I'm just very grateful that none of it involved physical abuse although he does hold our son and make him sit on his lap when he feels he needs to although he calls it a hug and says its to help him calm down, it only ends with our son crying and them hugging each other. My son always resists and I know he hates it. Dh always says "you aren't stronger than me" when he's trying to get out from his grip. I feel this is a "punishment" for him although dh would deny that.

I never hold my son against his will but I will send him to his room for punishment and I also raise my voice and yell when I'm angry or frustrated which dh has repeatedly called abuse (which I think is absurd). I guess he was raised in a house where nobody ever raised their voice even when they were angry! Seems like it would be unhealthy to hold all that inside but I'm trying to be more conscious of it & to not do that anymore since I recently bought one of the parenting books that had been on my want list for a long time and yelling was mentioned as being bad! (seriously I can't even yell? sheesh!) But it seems to me like what he is doing is so much worse! He also stops playing with our son if he doesn't do what dh wants (if he gets out too many toys for example) and sometimes when my son & I are together my son says to me "well I won't play with you" when he's angry about something.


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newmum35*
> 
> After he drilled it into his head that HE (dh) was the boss, and that son had to obey him, my son replied with "I am the boss of my toys" at which point dh said "Who's house is this?" and there was a long pause. My son finally said "I live here too."


Your ds is a very bright little boy. A 5 year old standing up to a 50 y/o man and actually outsmarting him... wow! Don't raise that little boy to be obedient, it would change his spirit!

(Just a side remark, I loathe the word obedient. Just the other day I heard MIL telling my 3 y/o dd after her swimming lesson: Wow, you did so well, you were a good, obedient little girl and listened to your teacher! Argh!)

Your post sounds very sad. Your dh must have a lot of hurt inside since he was a kid and is trying to justify it by inflicting it on his ds. He's playing mind games with both you and his ds. He is actually making him believe he's bad, and wants to make YOU believe that you are abusing him whenever you yell at him.

I don't actually think you can do anything to make your ds believe he's a good boy when his father is undermining this. You would have to change his dad's attitude.

My dh doesn't read parenting books either, but we are having long discussions since ds was a little baby. You could start by asking your dh what he wants to accomplish by making your ds obedient. Look around and find examples of obedient adults, how do they cope with life? Why does he have to prove that he's stronger than a 5 y/o? He won't be for long... would he like to be treated the same in 10-15 years?

You can relate the knife incident to your dh and point out that punishment doesn't make a kid obedient, it just makes him afraid. You could ask your dh if he wants his own son to be afraid of him and hide things from him when he gets older.


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## sassyfirechick (Jan 21, 2012)

Ouch. I don't even refer to my dogs as obedient, that's how much of a negative connotation I feel that word has. Obedience brings to mind people who do what they are told and are miserable for doing so - they have no free will. Your LO sounds amazingly bright and the fact that he's sensitive makes it much more likely for him to become hurt by remarks like "who's house is this" and "who's the boss". He will internailize it, as most sensative kids do, and like you said, even though your DH didn't call him a bad kid, your son is smart enough to make the connection that being 'disobedient' is bad. I agree with PP that until you can talk to your DH and change things with him, all the support in the world from you won't be able to combat the negative digs he's going to be getting behind your back.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Your husband sounds like my father. I left home as soon as I could, while still a teen, and I very seldom go back.

You cannot fix the horrible things your husband says to your child. If something drastic doesn't change, your son will hear "this isn't your house" over and over and over while he grows up. I know I did, and it impacted my choice to get out as quick as a I could.

My advice is to stand up to your husband and get into relationship counseling immediately.

"I can't stand it but also can't say anything about it to him because he gets very upset. He cannot take any form of advice, he interprets it as criticism which he can not take no matter how nicely worded."

This has to change for your own sake and for the sake of your son. And if it doesn't change, the best thing you can do is take your son and get out. Make a plan, and get out.

My mother chose to stay, so she seldom sees me or my children (only once every 2 or 3 years). My older sister has seriously mental health problems because living with a father like that takes a deep toll. My mother is now living her life alone with a man who is horrid to be around and can't be spoken to. If she had had the guts to get me and my sister out while we were still little, everything would be different now.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I keep thinking about this post and coming back here and not knowing what to say. I'm so glad Linda on the Move posted from her own experience.

You need to talk to your DH.

You are your son's mother, and you have a right to raise him according to your values. I would even say, you have an obligation to do that. His father's values, whether good or bad, do not trump yours.

One focus of gentle discipline for me has been, what will equip the child to be an effective, well-adjusted and happy adult. Your husband is right that at this age, respecting parents and learning to conform to adult expectations is important, but first, it is not the end goal, and second, what your husband is doing is obviously going to backfire spectacularly even on its own terms. He will not keep his child's natural respect and affection if he is capricious and only wants obedience for its own sake.

The interim goal is safety and learning life skills, like putting away toys, and obeying parents is a way to get to those interim goals. The end goal is independence. The theory is that feeling secure and protected in your home as a child, and getting explicit life-skills instruction from the parents, will help the adult person to function.

I know you don't want to admit that you eavesdropped on that awful conversation you heard over the baby monitor. I suspect that the minute you tell him you overheard the whole thing, he's going to react as though you'd already criticized him for it, because he didn't mean for you to hear that. There's no way that he wants you to know that he's parenting with a "you must obey me, even if I'm not enforcing a rule and what I'm asking doesn't seem to make any sense." Or maybe THAT is the way he was raised, with that old theory that the child's spirit must be broken. I really hope not! It reminds me of something out of Alice ******. (She was a child psychologist who published theories about how abuse makes children into violent or cruel adults--that Alice ******.)

Perhaps that's the way into the conversation--asking your husband about what from his own childhood he's hoping to duplicate and which things he wants to do differently than his parents.


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## mrstovar (Feb 25, 2010)

My husband (my son's father) is also in his fifties, was raised by parents born in the '20s and tends to be harsh, strict or authoritarian though he dearly loves his son. I can't say much to him usually as he considers himself to be the "head" of the house and almost anything unsavory comes across to him as insubmissive. Recently my son (two years old) started protesting strongly about Mommy leaving him with Daddy "because Daddy hits me with the fly swatter" I was seriuosly alarmed that my son wanted to be less and less with his daddy, and even more alarmed that Daddy didn't think there was a problem (other than Mommy). I must admit I prayed A LOT and I'm sure God answered. I found something on the Internet at Parenting Freedom (I think) that showed that the original Hebrew words in the "rod" verses in Proverbs do not refer to any child less than 10 years old (but possibly a teenager or young adult), etc. It refered to a book by Samuel Martin "Thy Rod and thy Staff They Comfort Me" We were able to get the ebook at no cost but have since also gotten a paperback through Amazon. Since my husband loves studying the Bible and loves getting to know what the original words were and what they mean, this book effected him deeply. He does not spank our son anymore, and our son is no longer scared to be left with Daddy. But, though my husband is now convinced that the Bible way is teaching and instructing rather than punishing, he still tends to be kinda aloof and very authoritarian, so my son still prefers me. All the same, I strongly recommend this book if you at all think your husband might take it to heart.


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## luckymolly (Nov 3, 2012)

I think I would have told him I heard the conversation. The knowledge of that conversation would have been lying there as a disturbance for me, and any way to deal with it while hiding from my DH that I heard it, would have felt very complicated and dishonest.

To read your post made me very sad. I can imagine how your son must feel, basically being told he has no rights at all, and that he doesn't really even have a home. Also my own DH is a bit the same, he can be quite insensitive and a bit too strict, but not as unreasonable as your DH was in that situation. He does have the attitude that children must learn to do what they are told, or else something bad will happen (I don't really know what he is imagining will happen, things will be "out of control" or something) and it is very difficult to change. It is a kind of under-estimating of children as persons, I think. I don't know how to solve this, however I am very sure you are not over-reacting, and your son is lucky to have a mum who understands and sees him as the good, sensitive boy that he is.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

How are you doing, OP? Is everything going OK?


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## newmum35 (Aug 16, 2007)

I want to thank everyone who commented. I've come back a few times to read the replies, unfortunately I've done nothing about it yet, except order a dvd which hasn't yet arrived. I have almost zero free time because I overwork myself (trying to improve my financial situation) and me and dh are not on good terms so my time spent talking to him is pretty much near zero. Nothing to do with this, but our relationship started crumbling 2 or 3 years ago.

I found a parenting dvd that will arrive soon and I plan to watch it soon as I can. Hoping it will be good and that dh will watch it also.

I know if I confronted him about what was overheard he would have no shame or remorse - yes he does feel children should "obey" "just because" no matter how ridiculous, if the parent asks then the child should do it period. I was with my son & his cousin most of the day yesterday which I enjoyed because I usually work sundays but later in the evening I left to take my nephew home so dh was with our son from that point. I was gone only 1 hr when I got back ds was being punished sitting "on his bed" with dh watching him (making sure he wouldn't get off the bed) I guess he had talked back to him or said something dh felt was disrespectful. I don't know what was said but pretty sure it was probably nothing.

Last night at bath time my son says to me "I know what I'm going to do next time I'm angry at Papa" and I said What? and he says he is going to not let Papa in his bedroom for a whole week! and I said "Oh is that what happened?" So I found out that part of his punishment is not being allowed in dh room for the next week. And so my son plans to do the same thing the next time he gets angry! lol

My son also said to ME this morning "If you don't do what I want, I'm going to do something bad to you!" I can't even remember what it was he wanted but he was very literal about it using those same words. I just ignored it and it passed and then he was the normal 5 year old he usually is. My husband would have never ignored this. IT would have started a huge power struggle ending in a punishment. Its like every word that comes out of his mouth is scrutinized and has to be said the right way and in the right tone. Its one reason I rarely talk to him anymore. I think he's suffering from depression or something and he has gotten offended over replies I've made that in no way were anything anyone would have found offensive. He never used to be like this, I could say anything at anytime and was completely free to be myself. I have no idea what happened or why but I'm still trying to figure it out maybe when I have more time I can come back for opinions (seriously I've considered things like male menopause, early Alzheimers, mini-stroke etc) my dh personality did a complete 360 it started maybe 3 years ago I'm sure if I havent been spending all my time working I would have addressed this by now but anyway thats a whole another thread!)

I'm just SO grateful for 2 things: 1) dh has never hit or shown an interest in spanking and 2) our son really is a great kid and is NOT a problem child at all! dh could never handle a truly challenging kid!


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## MichelleZB (Nov 1, 2011)

It IS your son's house too, and toys are meant to be played with. It sounds like your husband likes making up arbitrary rules for your son to follow so he can play his little mind games when your son inevitably messes up. This is very worrisome and a huge red flag.

If he's doing it to you, too, get out.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newmum35*
> 
> I know if I confronted him about what was overheard he would have no shame or remorse ....
> 
> ...


it doesn't matter why your husband is like this. This is how he is and he has no interest in changing, so this is how he is staying. Three years ago your son was transitioning from the baby stage to the child stage -- may be this is just what your husband thinks one does when they have a child to raise.

I think you need an exit plan.

Your husband is emotional abusive to you and your son.


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newmum35*
> 
> I want to thank everyone who commented. I've come back a few times to read the replies, unfortunately I've done nothing about it yet, except order a dvd which hasn't yet arrived. I have almost zero free time because I overwork myself (trying to improve my financial situation) and me and dh are not on good terms so my time spent talking to him is pretty much near zero. Nothing to do with this, but our relationship started crumbling 2 or 3 years ago.
> 
> ...


Newmum35, I just want to give you a hug! This sounds like such a difficult situation for you to be in.

Your dh is damaging your son and he knows that what he's doing is not ok, that's why he's hiding it from you and you have to find out about his new mind games from your son.

I would not be grateful for the two things you mentioned. No 1: emotional games might be more damaging than an occasional spanking coming from a frustrated and exhausted parent. (Speaking from my own experience; my mom spanked me a couple of times out of frustration, and I don't hold it against her. My dad, on the other hand, had very inventive ways to punish us, like shaming or calling us names, and I carry the scars into my adulthood.) No 2: you don't see your son acting out, but he is assimilating and internalizing what his dad is telling him. He's a bad boy and he's going to do bad things to people who don't obey him.

Just my 2 cents. If it was me, I would let my mama bear lash out at dh and tell him he was NOT to play his little mind games with my son. Period.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> it doesn't matter why your husband is like this. This is how he is and he has no interest in changing, so this is how he is staying.


I think this is right.

It is sometimes helpful to us to have labels to slap on behavior, labels like, "depressive" or "abusive" or "narcissistic" or "alcoholic." We like to have explanations when our partners start acting weird--a disease, an injury, a missing vitamin, or even a mental illness.

But you know, without any labels, this behavior you've described is unacceptable.

It sounds like the only reason you have not confronted him and insisted on different parenting behavior is that you are afraid of him. Is that right? I don't think you have a reason to protect your husband's feelings in this matter. If you are not afraid of him, confront him. If you are afraid of him, that's information for you that you should credit and on which you should act.

Don't blame yourself for working hard or trusting him or not realizing. Don't blame yourself, except to the extent that it helps you feel powerful enough to stop this.


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## Mittsy (Dec 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> it doesn't matter why your husband is like this. This is how he is and he has no interest in changing, so this is how he is staying. Three years ago your son was transitioning from the baby stage to the child stage -- may be this is just what your husband thinks one does when they have a child to raise.
> 
> ...


This.


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## MrsBone (Apr 20, 2004)

It sounds to me that your DH'S mindset is a bit skewed. He seems to feel that His child is his possession rather than this person that he now has a relationship with. It really boils down to that. Dh is harder on DS than I am, but I really tend to micromanage their relationships a bit since I'm with the kids all day and he's not. I'll give him advice under my breath or ask him to come talk to me for a minute to help him get control of the situation. I always try to explain to DH that our 4 year old is a person too, and he's only going to get more opinionated and independent as he gets older, and that's a good thing. We don't want to crush his spirit. He usually agrees, but just has a hard time coming up with the right thing to say or do when DS is challenging him. He's a smart kid. If your hubby's mindset can't be changed and if your relationship with him isn't great, he's neither going to have the respect for you to do what's best for his child nor have the respect for his child to do what's best for him. I would suggest How to Talk so kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk, and The Five Love Languages. PM me if you need to talk.


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## gitanamama (Feb 17, 2011)

I can relate newmum-- My DH grew up in a small town in Latin America. The values in his family and community were very "traditional" and conservative-- kids are to be seen and not heard, they should always obey...especially the girls. DH was spanked (and more...) as punishment and grew up fearing his father. He left home at 15 and still has a very tense relationship with his dad. And yet, despite wanting to raise our DS (3) dramatically differently than his own upbringing, I still see DH slipping into thought patterns and beliefs he was raised with. A lot of the time, I feel like the "punishments" he gives to DS are unreasonable-- and I call him on it. Thankfully, my DH is willing to compromise and listen to my point of view. Most of the time he agrees with me and opts for gentle discipline techniques.

I think it would be very difficult to raise a child with someone whose parenting "philosophy" differed greatly from mine. 

I hope you and DH can see eye to eye. It sounds like you have a very wise and independent son-- keep his spirit strong!!


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## Lazurii (Apr 1, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MichelleZB*
> 
> It IS your son's house too, and toys are meant to be played with. It sounds like your husband likes making up arbitrary rules for your son to follow so he can play his little mind games when your son inevitably messes up. This is very worrisome and a huge red flag.


This. So much this. My dad did this to me as a kid and it was very, very damaging. My dad also started doing it with my kids, this invent-a-rule-to-create-an-opportunity-to-punish thing, and it's one of the reasons my family has had no contact with my dad for well over a year. It is emotional manipulation, and it's not healthy at all. It really messes with your head when you can't have set rules that work the same all the time.


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## newmum35 (Aug 16, 2007)

I just want to thank everyone who responded to my post. I've had an incredibly busy year with working so not a lot of free time to get online for advice. (and a very depressing year as well so I never did bring myself back for an update) I did read all the replies several times and they helped a lot although I think I was in denial about some of it because it hadn't yet escalated to be obvious until our anniversary. At the time I posted I was also unaware that I was in an emotionally abusive relationship. I posted question about our son but we also have major problems in our own relationship as I learned this summer he is passive aggressive and emotionally abusive to me for 3 or 4 years.

I'm in the middle of trying to figure out what to do about that and its very difficult. There has not been more instances of the "Who's house is this" remark that I'm aware of. Even though I had not confronted him of this. Yes, I was afraid of him, as it turns out in retrospect... But at the time I did not think I was, I thought that was silly I knew he wouldn't hit me or anything so I planned to confront him indirectly by just suggesting we watch dvd together.. However when my parenting dvd arrived, he refused to watch it with me and was very defensive. So defensive we had a little fight or argument about it which had me depressed for hours and I think I couldn't sleep half the night and I realized THATS why I do not confront him about things that bother me. I lose sleep afterwards, get a headache, lose hours of work (I work from home)... it is so emotionally draining... I'm not afraid physically but I pay the price emotionally so I tended to avoid him most of this year. I'm starting to understand our relationship dynamics I just don't know how to get it to stop and I'm not convinced we would all be better off without each other yet (when I confront him with how he is treating me is abusive, as the things he's doing to me are listed on websites emotional abuse, he immediately states that what I'm doing to HIM is abusive I won't go into it here but I'm trying to get help elsewhere)

When he first refused to watch the dvd with me I found this baffling. Its not like he was familiar with it, he only knew the title. We used to always watch stuff together. It was the Alfie Kohn Unconditional Parenting dvd. So I end up watching it alone and enjoyed it. I do think our brief discussion about it did something and he tried not to be so strict after that as I did sense a change after that.. Or maybe its my imagination. He said life is all about rewards and punishments, if he doesn't show up for work, he gets fired. If he does, he gets a paycheck. He had a point and it was almost like he won the argument as I really didn't have any good comebacks but it still didn't feel right to me.

He was very angry that I challenged him on something to do with parenting, he is always like this, he will be very upset if I don't like his way of doing things...

What he's done this year and I'm a bit sad that when I read my original post I remember how hearing "obey" and "punishment" used to bother me so much, yes I remember those days I guess they are over.. Unfortunately I've heard them so often this year its become normal for us and I don't even cringe anymore. I feel defeated but I've been too emotionally drained trying to figure out whats going on in my own life & relationship and bringing myself out of depression that I've been too distracted to put any energy into figuring out better parenting techniques than stressing obedience & punishments.. I managed to talk dh into signing up for a local parenting class (he thinks its me the worse parent, so he was happy to go for me, I think) but we only went to the 1st one. He did not wish to continue after that as he did not like the instructor methods (she gave childish stickers for class participation) and although I planned to continue on my own, I end up missing next few weeks due to other events going on, and they require you to "make up" every class you miss so I decided to just stop (it was at least 12 session I think) and maybe try again next spring when they had it next. They did give us each a book with everything they go over, so I'm hoping to read it this winter even if I don't go back I have the book..

Anyway this is what dh does now if our son does something he does not like, whether its not do something he's asked to do timely enough or if he talks back or anything dh deems fit for a punishment which is usually because he didn't listen to something he was told to do, he says he "owes him 6 minutes" (because he's 6 yrs old now, I think he got that idea from watching nanny show) it used to be 5 minutes.. so until he does his 6 minutes (he must sit on his bed and do nothing and think about what he done and his dad talks to him during this time to be sure he understands why he is being punished and didn't forget what he did) then my husband will not play with him or do any fun stuff with him until that 6 min. is done.

Its up to my son when he does his minutes.. it can be that day or the next week but he doesn't get to do any fun stuff with his dad until then. Sometimes he gets multiple times in one day, today he got 3 of them  Some days he gets none. He does them one at a time though, and usually on different days... not 2 back to back... I am not sure what to think of it all, thats not how I was raised, and my husband does seem to be adapting his approach and trying to better himself as a father (he used to make him sit right then against his will trying to hold him or make him stay on the bed, now he no longer does that, and its up to DS when he is ready to and this seems to be working much better) but he does seem to get a lot of them sometimes (I don't think a week goes by without at least a few) and I just wanted to get some input on this. What does everyone else do when their kid misbehaves or doesn't do something parent has asked them to do? How does everyone else handle it? Is there a better way?

I personally don't do the 6 min, I just send him to his room and I'm somewhat flexible about it, he can sometimes come out early for good behavior.. I also don't go with him, he doesn't have to sit on the bed he can play if he wants to. But the time varies from 5min-30min depending on how cooperative he is at going on his own, because I do not physically make him go but just tell him to, sometimes he doesn't listen right away but for the most part I think he's pretty good about it all. When he comes out I try to remind him why he went in the first place so he doesn't forget, because he does play in there, so I know he is not thinking about it the entire time, which is ok with me.

Again, thank you to all who responded. There are some very wise women here, you have been very experienced and I appreciate the input, even now in retrospect it is still helpful to me as I try to untangle myself from the mess I am in.


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apeydef*
> 
> While I agree the husband was harsh and didn't need to hi to such extremes I am shocked at how many people are saying kids should not be raised to be obedient! While I try to give my children explanations about why rules are in place sometimes they just have yo "obey" things they are too young to understand.


I can't think of anything that I required my kids to do that I couldn't explain in some way. When they were little, rules were pretty basic -- like everyone has to wear a seat belt in the car. I could explain that. Sometimes explanations were tough -- like how to act an funeral and why.

As they have gotten older, the WHYs are so, so much more important than the rules. My kids are teens and spend time around other teens with very little adult supervision. My kids need to internally understand how different choice could play out for them because there isn't any one watching them who is going to stop them -- they've got to be able to make choices on their.

Kids who are taught to "obey" learn to do what mom and dad want *while mom and dad are looking*. That's all. That isn't enough to help them make choices that will help them be happy with their lives. And if you don't have reasons that you can explain to your kid, then all you've got is how much they fear what will happen if they misbehave.

Kids who are given real reasons for things learn to trust that their parents have their best at heart. They know I would never stop them from something that was harmless and fun -- if I say that a behavior is a bad idea, my kids know 100% that it could be dangerous for them or another.

Here is an example -- a child is chasing a ball, and it is going toward a street.


Mom 1 taught her kid obedience. She shouts at her child to stop running. The child may or may not stop -- depending on if he/she believes the punishment will be bad enough to make "not chasing the ball" worth it. At best, they stop because they don't want to be spanked, yelled at, have a time out, etc. They don't really care what mom thinks, they just don't want her to use her power to make them miserable.
Mom 2 taught her kids that she only stops their fun if they could hurt. She shouts at her child to stop running. The child most likely will stop, because, while confused, the child knows mom only says stop if it really, really matters. They want to know why mom told them to stop, because they were having fun and mom usually lets them have fun. They are actually *curious* about what mom was thinking.

Which mom would you rather be?

The older kids get, the less obedience works. Parents functioning on a "do what I say because I say so" are building NO TOOLS in their relationship to help navigate the difficult phase a young person gradually becoming independent. Basically, they are teaching their children that rules have no logical and basis and don't really matter, except that it is really, really, really important to not get caught.


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

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## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

But rules about seatbelts and requiring kids to always follow those rules are different than dad suddenly deciding there are enough toys out and giving vague consequences.

Kid says "I don't want to wear my seat belt"

Parent says "That's fine, we will sit here until you do. The rule is you must always wear your seat belt it is unsafe and against the law not to. When you're ready we can go to (whatever)."

Kid says "I'm going to get my dump truck!" (thinking that hey, I can use the dump truck to move the blocks over to the people and the people can build a house then I can knock down the house with the dump truck)
Dad says "No, that's enough toys."

Kid says "But I need my dump truck!!"

Dad says "You better obey me or you'll see what happens."

What does that even mean to a little kid? Did he just lay down a challenge to see if the kid would listen or not? Why would you set your kid up to fail? Did he explain why he shouldn't bring out any more toys? Did he explain the consequence for not listening? There is a huge difference in blind obedience and following the rules. If I make a rule that my kids can't use the bathroom hand towels they are going to think I'm nuts. If I make a rule that they can't use the bathroom hand towels and must use the old towel I put on the counter because they keep wiping paint on them from not washing their hands properly they are going to think "dang, she's pretty protective of those towels, what a nut, I guess i better wash my hands better." (sidenote, how the heck do you not notice a streak of red paint all the way across a bath towel???)

I grew up with a mother that changed the rules constantly, barked loudly about how it was "her house" all the time. All thta did was make me not trust her and not care about my home. It wasn't mine, I wasn't safe to be myself, I had to always make sure I wasn't going to make her mad. If it's "her house" why do I have to do dishes, they aren't mine. Ownership is so important to kids, responsibility comes from knowing you belong, that you are part of something bigger than yourself. I hope that the OP's husband can realize he's not raising a child to stay a child and do what he's told. He's raising a boy who will eventually be a man who will need to know what to do and why, without being told or threatened. "We do this because____" is way more effective than "Because I said so". Kids need reasons.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apeydef*
> 
> I have told my child why it is important to put on a seatbelt but they still are not doing it. They need to obey me and put on their seatbelt to be safe and respectful to what the patent is telling them.


There are obviously some situations in which we have to enforce obedience, because we can't wait for the child to understand the reason. Buckling the seat belt, being safe in the parking lot or the crosswalk, taking care with hot and sharp things--there are some situations where the parent may have to just take charge.

Still, obedience is not my end goal, ever. My end goal is for the child to understand, so that as he grows older, he can take more responsibility. At some point, the child has to be able to cross the street safely by himself, to get ready for bed, to chop an onion without cutting his fingers. (Not in that order!) Maybe a few times, you'll have to "because I said so" the child, but most of your authority should come from actually being an authority--from knowing more about the world.

Part of this is to inculcate responsibility as the child can assume it, and part of it is to remain available to the child when he or she needs you. If your love appears conditional, so is their ability to rely on you. Certainly the kind of time-outs the OP's husband is using these days are not as bad as what he was doing before, but they aren't what I think makes a parenting relationship work well!

I don't think anyone should feel bad that they have to say "because I said so" about a seat belt. We just also need to feel confident that our children will respect what we have to give them, and not use "because I said so" as our default reason for everything.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apeydef*
> 
> I have told my child why it is important to put on a seatbelt but they still are not doing it. They need to obey me and put on their seatbelt to be safe and respectful to what the patent is telling them.


Putting on a seat belt and speaking respectfully are two different issues. The seat belt thing can usually be resolved by waiting a child out, or pulling over if they unlatch it. The car doesn't move, and nothing else happens, until it is done. Avoiding emotion and drama tend to be helpful. Keeping is simple with "It isn't safe to be on the road without a seat belt. You need to put it on now" is enough.

Respectful communication is a different issue, and doesn't have squat to do with us being parents. Our children need to speak to other humans respectfully because other humans have feelings. They need to learn to speak to their siblings respectfully, and their friends, friends' parents, classmates, teachers etc. Heck, they need to learn to speak to themselves respectfully! We aren't in some special category that they need to kiss our butts, but rather we are people that they get a lot of practice with who get to give them feedback on how they are doing on this important skill. And probably the biggest single thing that will help them learn to to speak respectfully is how we speak to them. So, any parent who is speaking to their child in a disrespectful way in hopes that it will make their child more polite is really sending big fat mixed messages.

Having had people in positions of power over me use that power to deeply hurt me, I have never taught my kids that they need to "respect authority" and "do what they are told."

I taught my kids think and to be respectful of everyone.

Story -- When one of my daughters got to the stage in life where she was riding with teen drivers, I asked her if she always wore her seat belt, and if the other teens did as well. I asked if any of the teens she rides with ever text and drive. She looked at me like I was crazy.

"Of course we wear seat belts! And no, no one with an IQ above plant life texts and drives, and all my friends have IQs above plant life. We also don't screw around in the car, because it can be distracting to the driver. And anyone wearing a hat has to take it off."

I was like.....







"Why do they have to take off their hats?"

"Because hats really limit the drivers visability"

So she and her friends had come up with more safety rules than I had. I taught her a principle, (be safe when in a car) and she applied it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apeydef*
> 
> While I try to give my children explanations about why rules are in place sometimes they just have yo "obey" things they are too young to understand.


Keep telling them why, even if they aren't old enough to really get it yet. Hearing it over and over is how they get it. Besides the fact that they are learning from all the words you say, you are getting into a good parenting habit. "Because I said so and you need to obey and respect me" will not serve you long term.


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Thanks. I needed to read this at the moment. And it's great to hear that the messages do sink in eventually as well.


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apeydef*
> 
> Ok the seatbelt thing was an example but once again my words get twisted and I get bashed! I said I don't agree with the husband!!!! Read through before you attack me. My point was we tell out kids something we tell them why so they understand and then they are expected to obey! I guess I just look at it differently.


Yes, I think you are looking at it differently, and that people are disagreeing with you rather than bashing you. I didn't think you were saying that you wanted to do like the OP's husband. I'm going to continue in the same vein as Linda on the Move, because it's working for my son in the present and she's given a nice picture of how it could work in the future.

It is a problem in general that it's hard to explain what we're going for when we try to elicit thoughtful compliance rather than simple obedience.

Redirecting our attention to the OP for a second, we can see that her husband thinks his methods are better, because he gets immediate obedience when he can threaten punishment. When she suggests a parenting class, he thinks it's for her because he is such a great dad. In the meantime, she's feeling stomped, like she can't communicate her own values to her child. This is bad. It's significantly better than the kinds of manipulation she witnessed in the original post, but it's still a model of parenting that privileges his need to be obeyed and respected over the child's need to learn to self-regulate.

I know this isn't a wonderful reflection, because as moms we'd like our sons to have positive relationships with their dads. Still, I do think that if you perceive your partner's parenting as overly concerned with his own importance and not the child's, it's likely that eventually, the child is going to figure it out too.


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

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## sassyfirechick (Jan 21, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apeydef*
> 
> While I agree the husband was harsh and didn't need to hi to such extremes I am shocked at how many people are saying kids should not be raised to be obedient! While I try to give my children explanations about why rules are in place sometimes they just have yo "obey" things they are too young to understand.


There's obedience, and there's respect. One implies a dominant/submissive relationship of "I'm always right, you're always wrong", the other is more a give and take where you're not always wrong or right, but sometimes its better to back down to allow the other person to save face.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newmum35*
> 
> He was very angry that I challenged him on something to do with parenting, he is always like this, he will be very upset if I don't like his way of doing things...
> 
> ...


You both owe it to your son to give him a solid middle ground. What your husband is doing is wrong and hurtful and will only cause further tension and behavior problems in the future as they battle it out. But you also can't feel bad for your son and fail to offer up any sort of options - you're moving so far opposite of your DH in order to compensate that it won't help your LO.

In my editing I managed to miss out on the quote about your DH's analogy of punishment and reward but I wanted to address that because he seem very stuck in the methodology that this is the only way behaviors are created. There are plenty of jobs that don't pay, or pay much, and yet people continue to show up and are glad to do so - when you do what you enjoy, or work for someone who praises your work and doesn't make demands but treats everyone as equals, you work harder and don't mind doing it. When your boss is a demeaning, demanding jerk, how likely are you to call out sick or no put in 100%? He needs to look at how he's parenting in this manner. He needs to consider all of the people in his own life - who does he enjoy their company and why? Hopefully he enjoys the company of those who are kind and considerate and can relate to feelings of being put out and understand that your LO is capable of all these same feelings.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Kids who are taught to "obey" learn to do what mom and dad want *while mom and dad are looking*.


THIS!!!! All day long. The second backs are turned they have zero impulse control and zero ability to distinguish right from wrong, safe from dangerous. You have to empower kids to make decisions themselves - good decisions.


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newmum35*
> What does everyone else do when their kid misbehaves or doesn't do something parent has asked them to do? How does everyone else handle it? Is there a better way?


First, what do you mean by misbehaviour?

Second, I don't really think of my kids "misbehaving" if they don't do what I tell them to do. I figure they must have a reason to oppose it.

Then I try to figure out what that reason is. For example, I volunteer in my kids' school. Today I helped in the school until 6 pm, then I picked up my dd from daycare (in the same building) and we had to walk home. Dd was whiny and refusing to walk. Instead of punishing her, I had to admit it was way past the time I usually pick her up, it was cold and dark outside and close to dinnertime, so she was tired and hungry. So we walked very slowly, and we stopped when she asked.

Sometimes the reason seems superfluous to us. My ds has a hard time making his bed in the morning. So I have to gently reinforce it every morning, reminding him, sometimes even helping him a little bit, telling him that if it does it quickly we might have some time to watch TV. Punishment would make him resent it even more. I want him to to make it a habit, and continue making his bed after he leaves my home. How can punishment help with that?

If you give us some concrete examples of your ds's misbehaviour, maybe other posters have other suggestions.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apeydef*
> 
> Ok the seatbelt thing was an example but once again my words get twisted and I get bashed! I said I don't agree with the husband!!!! Read through before you attack me. My point was we tell out kids something we tell them why so they understand and then they are expected to obey! I guess I just look at it differently.


You didn't get attacked or bashed -- you got disagreed with. Some one respectfully explaining how they see things differently from you is NOT a personal attack. The way this is completely relevant to this thread is that eventually, your kids will disagree with you and tell you why. That doesn't mean they are attacking you, or god forbid, disrespecting you, but rather that they are separate human beings who see things differently.

I think there is a big overlap between parents who want their kids to "obey and respect" and people who get super bent out of shape when other disagree with them. It's the same feeling coming from inside, just labeled differently if it is pointed at other adult or at their own child.

Look at the OPer's husband -- he wants absolute obedience from his child, and he cannot have a conversation with his wife where he listens to her point of view. Its really the same thing coming from inside him, it just plays out a little differently with different people.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sassyfirechick*
> Consistency. You have to do just as your DH and if you decide on time outs the timing and method has to be the same otherwise you are holding him to 2 different standards and only confusing him more as to what the rules really are. It's not I can do one thing with mom and another with dad - it's all or nothing.....
> 
> You both owe it to your son to give him a solid middle ground. What your husband is doing is wrong and hurtful and will only cause further tension and behavior problems in the future as they battle it out. But you also can't feel bad for your son and fail to offer up any sort of options - you're moving so far opposite of your DH in order to compensate that it won't help your LO.


Although I agree that it is less than I ideal for a child when one parent is overly strict and controlling for the other parent to tries to make up for it, I disagree with your advice. I don't agree that mom should start doing as dad does. Instead, I think mom needs to get herself and her sweet child as far away from dad as possible, so that child has one home where he can be treated humanly, even though he will have another home where he is required to spend time where he is treated in such a demeaning way.

The answer for this child is NOT for mom to do the same as dad.


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

How do I delete all my posts? Is there a mod who can please help me?


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

To this thread only


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## sassyfirechick (Jan 21, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Although I agree that it is less than I ideal for a child when one parent is overly strict and controlling for the other parent to tries to make up for it, I disagree with your advice. I don't agree that mom should start doing as dad does. Instead, I think mom needs to get herself and her sweet child as far away from dad as possible, so that child has one home where he can be treated humanly, even though he will have another home where he is required to spend time where he is treated in such a demeaning way.
> 
> The answer for this child is NOT for mom to do the same as dad.


Ok well my intent was not that mom become demeaning to the child. It was more along the lines of if they are working things out, then dad needs to get his act together and stop doing times outs as a way to lecture and get his agenda/opinion across and if times outs are the method they chose, mom needs to also follow the same format. So not a format of lecturing and I did say that a few times in there, no lecturing. I'm not going to advocate for a divorce where the OP has not asked for any advice on that topic. My DH is similar although not so harsh, but my personality is much different it seems than the OP so I'm able to get my point across and we've made things work and he's learning to change. You can't change behaviors overnight when that was how someone was raised. They have to first recognize that there is a problem and then want to change before anything can happen. It is possible. And I want the OP to know that things can get better without moving out. She hasn't found courage to stand up to her DH I doubt she's going to take it a step further and run off with her child (no offense OP).


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apeydef*
> 
> Bu
> but you guys are twisting what in saying!! That's why I feel attacked... I'm agreeing with everyone by saying I feel kids need reasons to learn why not to do things but the end result is their obedience! You tell your kids not to run in the house because they may get hurt or something may break and they are then expected to listen which in turn is them obeying and respecting! I never said that this was my intent to only get obedience and I don't appreciate others who do not know me telling me how MY children are going to turn out! That is very disrespectful.


If you write to advocate a position that is different from that of others who have posted in the thread--which you acknowledged by saying that you see things differently--then it's not actually surprising that others post to say that they disagree with your position. That's true even though it's clear that you aren't advocating making children obey arbitrary commands.

Though discussion board writing is very informal, if you don't say what you mean with some precision, people will misunderstand you. (Actually, sometimes even when you do say what you mean with precision, they misunderstand you!) In this situation, I don't think you've communicated exactly what you wanted to say, because at least two people are reflecting back statements that you think are twisting your words. I really try hard not to do that, so I wonder whether you need to take another stab at saying what you mean?


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sassyfirechick*
> 
> Ok well my intent was not that mom become demeaning to the child. It was more along the lines of if they are working things out, then dad needs to get his act together and stop doing times outs as a way to lecture and get his agenda/opinion across and if times outs are the method they chose, mom needs to also follow the same format. So not a format of lecturing and I did say that a few times in there, no lecturing. I'm not going to advocate for a divorce where the OP has not asked for any advice on that topic. My DH is similar although not so harsh, but my personality is much different it seems than the OP so I'm able to get my point across and we've made things work and he's learning to change. You can't change behaviors overnight when that was how someone was raised. They have to first recognize that there is a problem and then want to change before anything can happen. It is possible. And I want the OP to know that things can get better without moving out. She hasn't found courage to stand up to her DH I doubt she's going to take it a step further and run off with her child (no offense OP).


The OP hasn't found the courage to stand up to her DH? Let's put the onus of responsibility on the DH for that, though, OK? To me, you shouldn't need courage to talk to your spouse, unless his behavior is a little scary. I am divorced now (!) and I am not afraid to tell my ex-spouse stuff about our child. Even at the nadir of our marriage, we were on the same page about most parenting stuff. I know, that's my good fortune. It's not my courage.

I do not agree that parents need to follow the same disciplinary regime in order to be consistent. Parents need to enforce the same household rules to be consistent. If one parent makes sure the child gets to bed on time through the threat of time-outs (which is what the 6 minutes in the corner is, basically) and the other gets the child to bed by creating a successful nighttime routine, there is still a consistent bedtime. If one parent doesn't allow candy before lunch, then the other has to not allow candy before lunch.

If Dad gets you to put on your seatbelt by threatening a six minute penalty and Mom gets you to do it by refusing to start the car until the belt is buckled, you still get your seatbelt on.


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## sassyfirechick (Jan 21, 2012)

@captain optimism let's get on the same page here, OP stated she IS afraid of her DH.....

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *newmum35*
> 
> Yes, I was afraid of him, as it turns out in retrospect... But at the time I did not think I was, I thought that was silly I knew he wouldn't hit me or anything so I planned to confront him indirectly by just suggesting we watch dvd together.. However when my parenting dvd arrived, he refused to watch it with me and was very defensive. So defensive we had a little fight or argument about it which had me depressed for hours and I think I couldn't sleep half the night and I realized THATS why I do not confront him about things that bother me. I lose sleep afterwards, get a headache, lose hours of work (I work from home)... it is so emotionally draining... I'm not afraid physically but I pay the price emotionally so I tended to avoid him most of this year.
> 
> ...


I didn't pull that out of thin air. Nor did I advocate for punishment. If you've read around, I'm all for GD, I'm a PR (that would be positive reinforcement) dog trainer I have a very clear understanding of behavior. I will absolutely advocate for the least invasive way of getting to a conclusion, mush as in your seatbelt example. BUT if a family is choosing a particular method - time outs - I'm stating that they need to be done that same way in order to have the same meaning. Time outs do no have to be demeaning or abusive and for some children are a viable option to control behavior....much like putting a dog in a crate or removing them to separate room for misbehavior - consistency and timing are key. Time outs are identical in methodology for humans or animals. The way her husband performs a time out is appalling and needs to change. It doesn't mean that the time outs need to end if it's what works for them and they can come to a compromise.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Oh, yes, I know she's said that she's afraid of him. I just think that's because of what he's doing, not because she's failing to woman up and stand up to him. I want to put this on him, not on her. (Sorry if my use of question marks was confusing!)

People also decide to stay with their spouses in order to avoid having to share custody of their children after a divorce.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apeydef*
> 
> How do I delete all my posts? Is there a mod who can please help me?


If you go back to a post that you have made, you'll see an icon in the lower left corner than looks like a pencil. This icon only appears in YOUR posts. If you hover your mouse over it, the word "edit" appears. Click on it, and your post becomes editable. You can then delete your text. The post cannot be left blank, so it is common to replace the old text with something like "deleted" or "no message."

Or, you could type up what it is that you mean so we understand you. No one is twisting your words - we really are going by what you are expressing in writing. Starting out by defending a parent who is emotionally abusive is perhaps not the best way to go. You seem to be arguing that his end goal is appropriate, just his methods are off.

Also, I never said how your kids will turn out. Raising children is not like baking cookies where if we follow a recipe just right we get a certain result. All of our children have free will, and they will all turn out pretty much how they choose to turn out. Some kids turn out awesome in spite of their parents, and some kids make poor choices in spite of their parents. Personally, I think there are only 2 things we can aim for:

1. To be as respectful and kind to our children as possible, because that is the morally right thing to do. We control our own behavior and choices.

2, To help them learn to make choices that will help them get the results they want from their lives. I think that certain types of interactions (such as I have advocated in this thread) make that more possible. After a few short years, we end up with very little *control*, and they will make all the choices that really matter in their lives. None the less, the choices are theirs, not ours.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sassyfirechick*
> 
> The way her husband performs a time out is appalling and needs to change. It doesn't mean that the time outs need to end if it's what works for them and *they can come to a compromise.*


Based on what she has said about her husband, a compromise isn't possible because he can't even have a real conversation about it. Anything she says to him leaves her defeated and drained. Reading your advice, I suspect that you haven't had someone like that in your family, so you really don't get what it means to live with them,.

All you can do it is try and escape.


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

I ha
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> If you go back to a post that you have made, you'll see an icon in the lower left corner than looks like a pencil. This icon only appears in YOUR posts. If you hover your mouse over it, the word "edit" appears. Click on it, and your post becomes editable. You can then delete your text. The post cannot be left blank, so it is common to replace the old text with something like "deleted" or "no message."
> 
> ...


I have deleted my previous posts and again I said several times I did not agree with the husband so I don't know why you said I was defending him! I stated several times I did not agree with him!!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> B][/B]The way this is completely relevant to this thread is that eventually, your kids will disagree with you and tell you why. That doesn't mean they are attacking you, or god forbid, disrespecting you, but rather that they are separate human beings who see things differently.
> 
> I think there is a big overlap between parents who want their kids to "obey and respect" and people who get super bent out of shape when other disagree with them. It's the same feeling coming from inside, just labeled differently if it is pointed at other adult or at their own child.


This was not stating how you assume my children will turn out or for that matter making assumptions about me as a person? All I was trying to say is that to me obedience is simply our children listening to what we tell them and teach them ! If I tell them the reason something cannot be done and they understand I then expect them not to do it again! I never said I base everything on obedience alone or that I don't think they will continue to make mistakes. They are kids and I love them and continue to teach them! If you tell your child not to of something followed by a reason I assume Do you then wish them to listen to you?


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

My end result is not obedience and that alone it's that my children understand and do not continue the behavior/act whatever the situation is!


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apeydef*
> 
> I ha
> I have deleted my previous posts and again I said several times I did not agree with the husband so I don't know why you said I was supporting him! I stated several times I did not agree with him!!
> This was not stating how you assume my children will turn out or for that matter making assumptions about me as a person? All I was trying to say is that to me obedience is simply our children listening to what we tell them and teach them ! If I tell them the reason something cannot be done and they understand I then expect them not to do it again! I never said I vas everything on obedience alone or that I don't think they will continue to make mistakes. They are kids and I love them and continue to teach them! If you tell your child not to of something followed by a reason I assume? Do you then wish them to listen to you?


Pretty much all kids disagree with their parents and tell them why.








It's just part of the fun of adolescents. It's nothing personal about your, specific children, rather a statement about the human condition.

You said that you expect your children to obey you and you got bent out of shape when people disagreed with you, so that wasn't much of an assumption on my part.

I expect my kids *to listen to themselves*, and I do my best to make sure than they have some sense inside them. My goal isn't for them to do things because I told them to, but because of what they have inside themselves, their own desires for the best for their lives, and their understanding that the true measure of a person is how we treat others. But no, it was never my expectation as a parent that I would tell my kids what to do and they they would just listen to me and do it.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sassyfirechick*
> 
> I didn't pull that out of thin air. Nor did I advocate for punishment. If you've read around, I'm all for GD, I'm a PR (that would be positive reinforcement) dog trainer I have a very clear understanding of behavior. I will absolutely advocate for the least invasive way of getting to a conclusion, mush as in your seatbelt example. BUT if a family is choosing a particular method - time outs - I'm stating that they need to be done that same way in order to have the same meaning. Time outs do no have to be demeaning or abusive and for some children are a viable option to control behavior....much like putting a dog in a crate or removing them to separate room for misbehavior - consistency and timing are key. Time outs are identical in methodology for humans or animals. The way her husband performs a time out is appalling and needs to change. It doesn't mean that the time outs need to end if it's what works for them and they can come to a compromise.


I think the way her husband is doing the time out is essentially negative reinforcement. He withdraws positive attention until the child does what he wants, which is to sit still for a six-minute reprimand. The fact that he's had to do this more than one time says to me that this is not working for them. Can you imagine repeated six-minute lectures at age six?

I don't think you're advocating that people raise their children in the way you train animals, though. Right? If we're talking about an ordinary, intelligent six-year-old human, he's capable of understanding reason and of wanting to demonstrate mastery over his environment. He doesn't require elaborate punishments or rewards to want to do this. He has language and can communicate his needs. You don't need to set up a consistent series of punishments in order to guide him through his day. You just have to talk to him, because he's a person. He might not have the cognitive sophistication that he's going to have in a couple of years, but he's capable of doing what kids are supposed to do.

Another reason why I don't think it makes sense for the OP to follow her husband's lead with the time-outs is that most children have more than one adult in their lives and have to adjust to more than one disciplinary style. If they don't homeschool, he has teachers. (Well, even then, most homeschoolers do groups.) He has friends who have parents with different styles.

I don't think it's on the OP to change her parenting style and become more strict because her partner thinks parenting is a transaction in which he pays the child with affection for doing his work of acting respectful.


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Pretty much all kids disagree with their parents and tell them why.
> 
> ...


So you don't expect your children to listen to you? So they can do whatever they want?


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

Again your not understanding what I'm saying! I'm not saying the goal is for them to listen just bc I told them to but bc I'm teaching them right from wrong! That is out job as parents to teach our children! I keep trying to explain myself but then you keep stating things I never said. So that is why I'm getting as you call it bent out of shape! Not bc you gave a different opinion than me but because you keep making statements that aren't true to what I said. Like I "defended the husband"


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apeydef*
> 
> So you don't expect your children to listen to you? So they can do whatever they want?


Once children become adolescents and adults, you won't be there to tell them what to do all the time. They will be at school, and at their jobs, and at college, and in social situations without you. What I read her saying is that she's trying to get them to share her values about good behavior, not to obey, because she won't always be there to boss them around.

Even a six-year-old goes off to school without Mommy and has to behave well on the playground and in the lunchroom without any adult direction.


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

But this is the same thing I'm trying to say! I just look at the word obey as listening to your parent! Example: I told my oldest today many times not to pick up her baby brother bc one of them may get hurt. But she keeps doing it.. I expect her to listen or obey bc she is old enough to understand what I am saying. I'm teaching her self control and good decision making as well as what the consequences may be so she can make better choices when older or away from me.


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

Sorry OP for derailing your thread.


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## unicornmama (Oct 26, 2013)

We could have been married to the same man. I was just like you. Please go with your heart and instinct. Please be careful. Please stand your ground. When I finally stood my ground and said we are NOT disciplining our son like this, I began finding bruises and handprints on my children and he began beating me and threatened to kill me in my sleep. Finally the cops dragged him off me one night with his hands around my neck and my screaming babies watching. You don't know who this man really is inside because you have no communication. Run fast honey. Please feel free to pm me.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apeydef*
> 
> But this is the same thing I'm trying to say! I just look at the word obey as listening to your parent! Example: I told my oldest today many times not to pick up her baby brother bc one of them may get hurt. But she keeps doing it.. I expect her to listen or obey bc she is old enough to understand what I am saying. I'm teaching her self control and good decision making as well as what the consequences may be so she can make better choices when older or away from me.


I know this is veering slightly off-topic, and that I need to make a disclaimer here: I have one, exceedingly easy and compliant, child at home.

It strikes me that "expecting obedience" (or let's say, compliance) from your daughter when she's picking up her baby brother is not working for you.

Obviously, you have to stop potentially dangerous behavior when it happens. I wonder whether you might get more compliance overall if you take time when the baby picking-up isn't happening to talk with her about why she wants to pick up the baby and what she could do instead. Mostly that behavior comes from positive motivations, like wanting to be helpful, wanting to express affection, or wanting to play with the baby. She could redirect those impulses to being helpful, affectionate or playful in ways that are safer. For her to play with the baby in a safe way will make him smarter! It's one of the benefits of being a younger sibling.

You still will probably have to supervise, noodge and remind her. It's just that saying, "Don't pick up the baby! You could drop him!" is only part of the teachable moment. There's also this chance to communicate these other things. (Which for all I know, you're already doing--you just don't mention it.) If you let her brainstorm the alternatives with you, it gives you a chance to show her how you redirect yourself.

This is why I don't like the OP's husband's time-outs, by the way. The question, "Do you understand what you did wrong?" is horrible. It doesn't give the child any power to choose something positive. It only gives him power to stop doing something. All of the judgment of right and wrong lies with the parent. I mean, of course, there are always exceptional circumstances where someone needs a time out and a lecture. Some behaviors are too scarily dangerous! I just don't think this is the way forward to get ongoing good choices by the child.

The parent is not a commanding officer in the battle of life any more than he is the boss of the corporation of life, because a family is not an army or a business.


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

Ok when I say baby he is 14 months fully mobile... Sorry if I confused anyone And I do supervise constantly, I was right next to them telling her to out him down when she did it!! that was once again not the point! I was giving an example which you still are not understanding!


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

I'm not asking your opinion on my parenting or even asking for your approval for that matter! I just simply wanted you to understand what obedience meant to me! I am not a drill sergeant who walks around saying "because I said so!" That is not what I mean. All I mean is that in certain instances where safety is involved and my children understand that it is a safety issue because it has been explained to them, then yes that to me requires their obedience! I also practice positive reinforcement and other gentle parenting techniques.


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

A
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *captain optimism*
> 
> I know this is veering slightly off-topic, and that I need to make a disclaimer here: I have one, exceedingly easy and compliant, child at home.
> 
> ...


and I have sat down and talked with her about it! But she is a young energetic child still learning self control who also wants to mother her baby brother at times!


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

You know this whole thing got so off topic so again I would like to respectfully leave this thread and I would like others to not quote what I've said so I stop getting emails. I deleted most of my earlier posts because I felt they were taken out of context! I will agree to disagree and move on! Have a great day!


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)




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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

O
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nightwish*
> 
> Apeydef, I'm not quoting your post, but allow me to explain further. My intent wasn't to imply that you are not supervising your children.
> Let me exemplify by taking two children, a baby and a preschooler who is raised to be obedient, and another pair in which the preschooler is asked and reminded not to pick up the baby, but not required to be obedient. The obedient girl might be more compliant because of punishment when an adult is present; but I would venture to say that at the end of the day, the result is the same: you _still_ can't leave your obedient child unsupervised with a baby, and you can't leave the "disobedient" one either. So why insist that she obey you?
> ...


I never said I left them alone!! Does anyone read what I write? I said I was right there when it happened! I also said I have sat down with her and explained to her that she cannot pick up her brother because he or she could get hurt! Does this sound like a drill sergeant mentality? He is also not a baby he is over one running walking and talking (I said that too) so there is going to be times I walk out of the room for a moment! So if I gave sat down with her and explained a safety issue and talked it through with her I should not expect her to respect my wishes and obey what I gave said?! That is ridiculous to say other wise! So what would you do in this case? Stand there and let your child pick up her younger brother? Bc you don't want to enforce rules! I also never even said I punished her you are just assuming I did!!


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

I have made it clear we do not agree and I do not wish to go back and forth! But I am getting a little perturbed with the assumptions that I am punishing or that I am leaving my oldest alone with the youngest!!


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)




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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

Yes you started off by saying that your intent was not to say I'm not surprising my children but then ended with again about how one cannot leave a baby and child alone! I assumed that was meant for me! You sure seem like you care because you won't stop going on about it!! This whole time my questions were answered but everyone keeps referring to "if you do this your kids will do this!" Do you see why that can come off as offensive ! Nobody just said I don't ask my kids to obey because of this and this and this.... It was always brought back to me about you shouldn't do this or this or this!


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## newmum35 (Aug 16, 2007)

I haven't been on in a while so I missed all the deleted posts but will try to come back now and then when I have more specific examples of things maybe someone can offer advice on how to deal with... One example of "misbehavior" that comes to mind would be throwing one of his toys down and breaking it, in a fit of anger.

For example he had a perplexus ball for a year or two and we've always been careful not to drop it (it was a replacement for one that was defective) and one day in anger he slams it to the floor on purpose as if it were a basketball and of course it shatters open, and we put it in the garbage... my "punishments" are always the same and I don't even like to use that term, I don't see it as a punishment but maybe thats what it is.. I send him to his room when I'm angry with him so of course I was angry he broke one of his previous xmas gifts, I yelled about it and sent him to his room. As to why he was angry in the first place and slammed it down, I cannot remember. It could be he had done something ELSE and was angry I had sent him to his room for THAT, didn't want to go, and so grabbed the toy and slammed it down. He's done things like that before where one thing escalates into another and another and 5 minutes in his room turns into a half hr all because he doesn't just go in the first place when he's asked, I don't know what else to do about it all, and end up adding 5 minutes for each one... I do try to have compassion and figure out why he's acting up in the first place but sometimes I just want to get it to stop, I'll tell him to "stop" (2 or 3 times) he doesn't listen, so then he gets sent to his room.

As far as the lecturing.. it does bother me that DH talks to him the entire time but it is not in a stern voice he does not sound angry about it and he does not yell. Honestly he is one big walking contradiction that I'm still trying to figure out. I have heard DH use "look at me" before (only a few times) and it made me uncomfortable myself.

The person who said this, has it right "essentially negative reinforcement. He withdraws positive attention until the child does what he wants, which is to sit still for a six-minute reprimand. The fact that he's had to do this more than one time says to me that this is not working for them."

What he's doing to our DS is essentially a mini version of what he's been doing to me for the past 3-4 years except its taken me until about 6 month ago to figure it out. I thought he was getting alzheimers or something. Some days I still think there has to be a medical explanation. I have a hard time accepting that someone can make a conscious choice to treat their spouse the way he's treated me. I fight depression every day and have been trying to figure out what to do about it all. He doesn't think he has a problem, when I figured out what was going on (essentially that he was passive aggressive and emotionally abusive to me) I was estatic I finally had some answers and we could make progress now we knew what the problem was. I presented him with articles that described him to a T which he refused to look at, he immediately stated it was me who was being abusive to him. He actually sees himself as the victim, has an excuse for everything, and blames me for the way he treats me. I have a post on the abuse forum and its going to take me a while to sort things out. It becomes so overwhelming when I Try to think about and sort out that I end up just putting the whole issue away for a few weeks and the weeks turn into months, and years.. I'm trying not to change the topic of the thread away from the child discipline issue..

I don't think theres danger of me becoming more strict just to be on the same page as my husband. He's already proven himself to be emotionally abusive to me so I no longer trust him. I honestly don't know if we will stay or split. Some days I feel one way, other days another way. Our son knows we have different ways to deal with the same thing I think he's ok with that. I do tend to try to compensate for dh and be more permissive than I'd otherwise be in some situations. My son sometimes talks to me in ways he would never talk to DH and DH interprets this to mean that I am the bad/unsuccessful parent and he is the good/successful parent (because his methods must be working, as our son is so respectful around "him" and when he's around "me" his behavior changes) I see it as the opposite. I think our son feels most comfortable to be himself around me, he knows I love him unconditionally and thus, doesn't always have to walk on eggshells (I have to do this with DH myself) he does test his limits with me because he knows he can get away with more, but part of the problem is I think he's so controlled around DH he just lets it all out with me at the first opportunity.


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newmum35*
> 
> I haven't been on in a while so I missed all the deleted posts but will try to come back now and then when I have more specific examples of things maybe someone can offer advice on how to deal with... One example of "misbehavior" that comes to mind would be throwing one of his toys down and breaking it, in a fit of anger.
> 
> For example he had a perplexus ball for a year or two and we've always been careful not to drop it (it was a replacement for one that was defective) and one day in anger he slams it to the floor on purpose as if it were a basketball and of course it shatters open, and we put it in the garbage... my "punishments" are always the same and I don't even like to use that term, I don't see it as a punishment but maybe thats what it is.. I send him to his room when I'm angry with him so of course I was angry he broke one of his previous xmas gifts, I yelled about it and sent him to his room. As to why he was angry in the first place and slammed it down, I cannot remember. It could be he had done something ELSE and was angry I had sent him to his room for THAT, didn't want to go, and so grabbed the toy and slammed it down. He's done things like that before where one thing escalates into another and another and 5 minutes in his room turns into a half hr all because he doesn't just go in the first place when he's asked, I don't know what else to do about it all, and end up adding 5 minutes for each one... I do try to have compassion and figure out why he's acting up in the first place but sometimes I just want to get it to stop, I'll tell him to "stop" (2 or 3 times) he doesn't listen, so then he gets sent to his room.


I also hate when ds slams things, although he has never broken anything... but it annoys me to no end.

What I would do in the situation you mentioned... I would probably yell and tell him how upset I was, although I try my best not to yell...

But after cooling down, I would probably admit that it was his toy - his own possession - and as annoying as it is to see him disrespecting gifts, I would make him clean up the mess and leave it at that. The consequence is that he doesn't have a toy to play with.

If it were someone else's toy, or my own things, I would ask him to pay out of his allowance. Once ds scribbled on a newly painted wall, and he had to repaint part of it himself (under dh's supervision). He also had to pay for the painting supplies out of his own allowance. He never drew on walls again.

Not saying this is the best or the only way of dealing with things.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Of course the difficult marriage and the difficulties with parenting are connected. I'm sorry about the whole thing. You deserve better.

In the meantime, I don't think it makes sense to send your child to his room any time his father would. I think you can do the other kind of time outs--the kind where you actually take a cuddle break or just stop and chill out. It's OK for you, as the mom, to ask the kid for a time out for yourself. I used to do that when my kid was littler and I got overwhelmed.

If he gets mad enough to break his toy, he's already feeling bad about the toy. It's enough punishment to clean it up. I'm sad for you guys that you got him this thing he liked and he broke it. It's probably feeling a little too symbolic right now.

If I were in your shoes, I would get my favorite children's book and invite the kid onto the couch and read it to him. Or even favorite adult book. Just sit there for a while and chill out, morning and evening. Or make a family tradition of having a glass of water (or some special beverage--add ice cubes, whatever seems special) at a certain time every day. Just break the tension and regroup for a short time every day. Rituals are important. They give you a way to treat him with care, and they don't reward bad behavior. he's not going to be this little and cute for very long, and you shouldn't have to miss out on that. One of the things my son used to say at that age that I liked a lot was, "This is very peaceful."

The way I solved my biggest conflict with my son when he was six was this. His father went on a business trip. We'd had about two years of arguing about getting dressed every morning. He would demand that I come into the bedroom and pester him (!) or refuse to button his own clothing, or whatever. On Monday of the week we were alone, I said, "I wonder how long it will take you to get dressed if you time you on the kitchen timer. I'll record your results all week and we can see." When his dad got back, he demanded that he make a spreadsheet for him, and use a timer with more precision, so it wasn't only something he did with me. It was amazing! We did it all through first grade. (Six minutes was his record.) It made us so happy. I love how much he loves spreadsheets, even though I don't like them! It's cool how we can reach our kids through the ways they are different from us, not only the ways they are the same.

I would be shocked if you could get this marriage back on track. Your parenting relationship, though, you can fix. You know that you are on the same team with your son.


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## unicornmama (Oct 26, 2013)

When I was with my ex husband, who I have mentioned is identical to yours, and I do mean everything, from parenting style to communication to age to his father being a preacher, my daughter began acting strangely. At first when she was three it was breaking her toys and raging a bit here and there. Then she became very attached to me, and didn't want to be with him at all. His punishments for my daughter were the same as those for your son. My husband was pretty obsessive about her behavior. She got in trouble if she colored outside the lines because it meant she wasn't doing her best, for example.
Well, our son was born, and ex DH was paranoid about DS being spoiled, etc. He was into cry it out, not holding him too much, and me not sleeping with baby in the bed for even five minutes. When I got upset about these things, he physically would prevent me from seeing the baby. He would block the door and not let me out of our room. And anytime my daughter had a bad dream, which was often, and she would come to my room crying, I was supossed to send her back to her room. Not go with her. If I did, I would be in trouble with my husband.
My daughter, who I had been a single mom to up until then, had always been sweet, smart, eager to learn and even obey. Not anymore. We caught her breaking things, slamming our sons fingers in a dresser drawer, hitting baby DS in the head with a vase, and finally choking the cat to unconsciousness.
All this is just to give you an idea of the extent of the control exercised over us all. Eventually, I started refusing to not sleep with DS at times. He would physically jerk him out of my arms and take him to his room. If my son cried in his room, EX DH would stand in the door and push me back into our room. Finally I backed up and got physical with my husband. I was fighting, everyday, to parent as it seemed right to me, and it took that moment with the cops to finally set us free. My children, who werefive and almost a two when it was all over, had watched this man say horrible things to me and them, had seen me beaten and they had been, too. I wondered if DD would ever be the same.
My children, now that he is gone, are incredibly sweet and well behaved. DD wouldn't even think about hurting a living creature. She never hurts her brother. Its like she woke up from a dream. If I ask her about the strange things she used to do, she doesn't know why she did them and makes her cry to remember.
My point is, a child exposed to this attitude very likely has a lot of repressed anger issues. Keep that in mind.


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## unicornmama (Oct 26, 2013)

And oh yes, everything was always my fault and he was always the victim. I forgot to mention this... my ex DH had been married previously. He did tell me, in the beginning, that he had two daughters, oldest had aspergers, youngest had behavioral problems. Neither ever wanted to see their dad, ever. He made his ex wife out to be just terrible, and the reason for their split. Toward the end of our marriage, I met them all. His child with aspergers can function wonderfully without her dad. When he's around, she rocks and becomes quiet, and stutters. The youngest refuses to even speak to him. She says he sexually abused her. And the ex wife? He threatened her with a gun to her head one night, and she took the kids, teens by then, to a bedroom and then they all snuck out the window and ran from him. That's what really happened. They are all wonderful, nice people, once they're away from him. I might also add that I was on prozac for depression when I was with him. I have no depression issues now at all, and am no longer on prozac.


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## apeydef (Mar 16, 2013)

I
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newmum35*
> 
> I just want to thank everyone who responded to my post. I've had an incredibly busy year with working so not a lot of free time to get online for advice. (and a very depressing year as well so I never did bring myself back for an update) I did read all the replies several times and they helped a lot although I think I was in denial about some of it because it hadn't yet escalated to be obvious until our anniversary. At the time I posted I was also unaware that I was in an emotionally abusive relationship. I posted question about our son but we also have major problems in our own relationship as I learned this summer he is passive aggressive and emotionally abusive to me for 3 or 4 years.
> 
> ...


I want to tell you that I'm sorry that you are having such a difficult time and I'm also sorry that conversations between me and others took your thread into such a different direction! I did not mean to be rude or insensitive! When my child does something like not talking nice or "misbehaves" I send her to her room and I try to make it five minutes but I'm not real set in stone for how long! I don't do it as a punishment so to say but I notice when she is removed from whatever's going on for a moment she comes out happier. Sometimes she just needs a break. I don't always send her to her room though only if it's a repeated behavior. I try to evaluate the situation first bc if she is tired or hungry she will start acting out! So I try to take that into consideration. When she does get sent to her room I always ask her do you know why you were sent to your room? And she answers, or I say this is why mama sent you to your room..... This is why you can't do this...... I try to make sure she knows the reason behind not doing it. But also when I send her to her room I will say you need to go in your room because you should not be.........so she knows ahead of time why she is getting sent. I also ask her why she did whatever it was bc I want to know what she is feeling! I hug and kiss her and tell her I love her when she comes out from her room. Oh and also I usually just let her come out whenever she asks so she's probably in there for only a couple minutes ! I used to not let her play but now I do bc I have been learning as I go! Anyway I'm sure others will not agree with my tactics but this is what I do! Also sorry if you already said this and I missed it but would your husband be willing to go to marriage counseling?


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## newmum35 (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unicornmama*
> 
> My point is, a child exposed to this attitude very likely has a lot of repressed anger issues. Keep that in mind.


This is one of my fears, as I believe my husband has repressed anger issues, probably stemming from childhood. He thinks he comes from a normal wonderful family and I think he is trying to parent in the way he was raised because thats all he knows and he feels it is best.. Its almost like he was glorifying punishments a few times.. he asked my son a few times what he thought his punishment should be... trying to let him play a role in that as if it were some wonderful thing that is only done by someone who loves him.

We haven't talked about how he was raised and if I try to find out now I probably won't get the truth. I don't think he'd tell me anything that I might find fault with. But however he was raised, I know I definitely want to do the opposite. The last thing I want is to raise someone that grows up to be like my husband who has never learned how to express their anger properly and ends up destroying their marriage. I even touched on that once in conversation and he quickly turned the tables around and suggested that our marital problems were from the way I was raised because I had not received punishments.

Your X sounds violent, not like my husband although they may share similarities, mine is only covertly aggressive; similarly controlling but was not quite as paranoid about spoiling although he did want me to do the Ferber method (cry it out) which I tried part of one night in desperation but quickly ruled it out, I knew it was wrong for us. He told me that night if I didn't do it, then I was on my own with any sleep issues and he wouldn't help me.. He'd never helped me anyway at night so there wasn't any difference on my end. But I never asked for any help at night from him or any advice, because he made it clear he would not help me because we disagreed... that was my punishment for not agreeing with him. The last thing I wanted to do anyway was leave DS with someone who thought cry-it-out was a great thing, so I was totally ok with his "consequence" of not following through with the Ferber method! Now if he would have insisted he be the one to parent at night, I would have had a problem with that. lol

This was when DS well under a year old, maybe 6 months or so.. and he continued to wake up frequently at night for over 3 years (He sleeps great now! ) So I just parented on my own at night for all those years and continue to do so even now, just as a single parent would. My husband never woke up in middle of night to help with anything, not ever from the time he was born, nor did he even wake up early to watch him in morning so I could sleep in. He basically wanted to "punish me" by sleep depriving me I think, and I was definitely sleep deprived for years. He got several days a week off from work he got to sleep in as much as he wanted and I never got any. (After the age of 3 I finally got a break when DS visit relative occasionally)

I think my husband is paranoid about him growing up to be a wild, rebellious teen someone "out of control" who doesn't listen or respect authority so this is where his fear is coming from and why he's trying so hard to correct now. I think its ridiculous of course, as I was nowhere near a wild teen and was not controlled at all. So I think theres probably a correlation and he'll probably get the thing he fears, by doing what he's doing.

I'm getting a bit off track... I appreciate the latest suggestions, all very good and gave me a lot to think about.. yes it was his own toy (I enjoyed it too, and so did his cousin when he visited) but that was a good point. Not long after that, he got mad about something else, and ripped up his lego booklet. He didn't care about it since he already knew how to build it. But I like to take care of things and like to keep the booklets and boxes nice. But at least it wasn't a real book, so I wasn't too upset to be honest but I didn't want him to think it was ok to destroy things... I then thought of a good idea (input?) and we put about 5 pieces of paper in his room for the next time he's angry he can get one or two and rip it up into as many pieces as he wants. One did end up ripped up at some point but I can't remember if he was actually angry about something, or just playing and enjoying the mess.

We don't have scheduled times but we read almost every day.. One thing I found early on was when I tried to use "rewards" after he read to me, he suddenly hated reading if there was no rewards. (he's been reading since 3) He loves when I read to him, but doesn't love so much when I ask him to read to me, even if we take turns on pages. Its just not so much fun for him, he acts like its "work". A year or two ago I had a little box of prizes he could pick after each story and from that point I think I spoiled his love of reading although we still read together but I don't know if its ever been the same. I'm almost sorry I did that but I admit I'm thinking of doing it again to bring back some excitement for him. He's well advanced for his age though, he's only in K and is almost on 2nd grade readers so no worries there.

Ok I might try the cuddle break idea instead of sending to room.. if I remember to! I like the idea, I just don't want him to feel he has to do bad things in order to cuddle, if he ends up liking the cuddle break a little too much. I definitely don't punish him for things I think his father would. I don't even like to send him to his room but I just don't know what else to do when what he's doing is upsetting me and I want him to know it is wrong and I ask him to stop 3 or 4 times and he doesn't listen. I'm just very grateful he actually goes (because there is no door on his room) ...although he definitely dawdles on the way! ..And what if what he's doing is making super loud noises close to my ear and doesn't stop when I ask him to so I send him to his room, and now that changes to a cuddle? Oh dear, will that get the noise to stop? lol


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newmum35*
> 
> Ok I might try the cuddle break idea instead of sending to room.. if I remember to! I like the idea, I just don't want him to feel he has to do bad things in order to cuddle, if he ends up liking the cuddle break a little too much. I definitely don't punish him for things I think his father would. I don't even like to send him to his room but I just don't know what else to do when what he's doing is upsetting me and I want him to know it is wrong and I ask him to stop 3 or 4 times and he doesn't listen. I'm just very grateful he actually goes (because there is no door on his room) ...although he definitely dawdles on the way! ..And what if what he's doing is making super loud noises close to my ear and doesn't stop when I ask him to so I send him to his room, and now that changes to a cuddle? Oh dear, will that get the noise to stop? lol


No, I don't mean do a reward instead of a punishment. That would be crazy! Just take a pre-emptive break when you think he needs one, or do cuddling regularly, not in response to good or bad behavior.

Rewards and punishments are terrible. They stop you from doing what the child needs when he needs it, because you'll mess up your system.

I'm sure you're doing OK, actually, and don't need people to give you advice--just to affirm that you're doing a good job. You did all the nighttime parenting! You're a trooper.

You know yourself. What do you think you should do? What can we, random nice ladies on the internet, do to support you? What can your real-life friends and relatives do?


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I think it may help to look for what is causing the behavior rather than focusing attention on stopping it by sending your son to his room, especially if it is a daily thing. Does he need to go on a walk, play with other kids, listen to a story, ride a bike, do some art, play with different sensory materials, drink or eat, etc... Stopping a problem is only a first step in the moment that you are being driven up the wall, finding the cause is the long term solution.

It may help to focus your energy on deciding what you can change for you and your son to be happy with the assumption that your husband won't change. A counselor may be able to help you sort through that if it seems like both divorce and a home life without feeling hopeless and worried for your son are both impossible.


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