# school strip searches...who else thinks the world has gone mad?



## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Anybody else hear this story on NPR today?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=103215199

The story is about the case before the supreme court today where a 13 year old girl was stripped search at school.

Having been a public school teacher, and hearing stories from my DH, who currently teaches in a public high school, I am not as shocked as one might think. But still!







:














:

Add this to the very long list of reasons my children will not be going to public school.

What is really sad, is when I talked to my Mom about this story this morning, she told me I had nothing to worry about because I'm an involved and aware parent so this could never happen to my kids. My kids will know how to handle themselves and I will be able to trust the school officials that are in charge of *MY* kids. But isn't this just the the scary thing about the story? Didn't this parent have that trust?


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## kiara7 (Feb 14, 2008)

Quote:

In its brief, the school says the fact that Redding was an honors student who had never been in trouble before is not evidence of good conduct, but only evidence that she had never been caught.
Ridiculous! Who do these people think they are? Prison guards?


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

So, because she was in a public school setting she loses her constitutional rights against illegal searches???









Yeah, my kids are never going there either.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Our city is arguing over the use of padded rooms for mentally handicapped children.


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## LittleBlessings (May 26, 2008)




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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

So I guess not only do you have to make sure you opt out your kids so they don't get spanked/paddled in school, you also have to opt out of getting them strip searched.









Quote:

In its brief, the school says the fact that Redding was an honors student who had never been in trouble before is not evidence of good conduct, but only evidence that she had never been caught.
I guess none of us here are good people, we're just bad people that have never been caught.


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## MaterBum (Aug 11, 2005)

It is a terrifying case. The interview I saw with the girl and her mother said that what pointed suspicion her way was another student pointing at her when that student was asked where she got the cigarette and pills (ibuprofen) in her hand. Did I write that in a way it can be followed? So, in other words, this student with *no past history of misbehavior* was strip searched because another student (the one with the contraband) pointed at her. First, they searched her backpack and found nothing. So you'd think that would make them think the other student was lying. But no, instead, they decided to strip search her to make sure she hadn't stashed it anywhere. Ridiculous.

I used to teach at a public high school. And I'd like to say this story completely surprises me, but it doesn't. Our district did a couple of police dog drug searches completely unannounced. They would take the dogs and let them run the parking lot, sniffing cars. Then, they would bring the dogs into the school, lock the doors, tell everyone to remain in the classrooms while the dogs ran and sniffed all the lockers. Then, they would bring the dogs into the classrooms and tell everyone to sit still and calm (yeah, right! these dogs are intimidating!) while the dogs sniffed up and down the aisles at backpacks and purses. If they caught a funny scent, those students were taken to the office. Who knows what all happened at that point. It is one of the reasons I left teaching. It turned my stomach to go through this treatment and to watch students go through it. Anyway...

Somehow in this country, we are letting fear of drugs take away a lot of freedom. I hope the SC rules against the use of such searches in a school.


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## columbusmomma (Oct 31, 2006)

I was outraged after hearing that story this am. That should NEVER have happened.


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

I heard something like this on Dr. Phil a few months back..not sure if it was the same girl or another one







It is insane! Recently some money and other things were stolen at my dd's school. I asked her if anyone accused her of stealing them and she said no. I explained to her that sometimes schools tell kids to take off their clothes and search them for stolen things..and that she has the right to say NO, I WANT YOU TO CALL MY MOM! She is only in third grade but I am not taking any chances that it can't start in elementary school. I didn't want to scare her and I told her it was very unlikey to happen but I wanted her to understand that it's HER BODY and she NEVER has to agree to something like that. For this and many reasons, she may be doing cyberschool next year. This world is disgusting.


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Equuskia* 
So I guess not only do you have to make sure you opt out your kids so they don't get spanked/paddled in school, you also have to opt out of getting them strip searched.









I guess none of us here are good people, we're just bad people that have never been caught.









Isn't that just the stupidest, most paranoid argument EVER?? If that's the best they've got, I think they'll get reamed in court. They should.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

I hope there are riots in the streets if the Supreme Court sides with the school. I'd be extremely concerned if there were NONE. I can't imagine what kind of sick people think that this is justified. Certainly no one who should be within ten yards of a child.







:


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## SparklingGemini (Jan 3, 2008)

This is horrifying to me. So, so horrendous and scary.

Like others, this is just more fodder for my decision to homeschool.

The mental anguish something like this would have caused for me would have been unbearable. I feel for this poor, poor girl.


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## Mama2Jesse (Jan 5, 2009)

Omigosh, I would pull my kid out of that school so fast! I've been hearing about this and am just disturbed on so many levels... man, I hope their attendance has plummeted since all this has come out.

That poor girl. She must feel so violated and afraid.









The persons responsible need to be charged and held accountable. Sick nasty perverts.


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## SparklingGemini (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dr.Worm* 
I heard something like this on Dr. Phil a few months back..not sure if it was the same girl or another one







It is insane! Recently some money and other things were stolen at my dd's school. I asked her if anyone accused her of stealing them and she said no. I explained to her that sometimes schools tell kids to take off their clothes and search them for stolen things..and that she has the right to say NO, I WANT YOU TO CALL MY MOM! She is only in third grade but I am not taking any chances that it can't start in elementary school. I didn't want to scare her and I told her it was very unlikey to happen but I wanted her to understand that it's HER BODY and she NEVER has to agree to something like that. For this and many reasons, she may be doing cyberschool next year. This world is disgusting.










I just want to say that I think its wonderful that you've taken a proactive approach to education your DD on this type of a situation.

I commend you.


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklingGemini* 

I just want to say that I think its wonderful that you've taken a proactive approach to education your DD on this type of a situation.

I commend you.









Oh thank you so much for that. I was afraid maybe I shouldn't have told her that so I really appreciate you telling me that.







:


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## LauraLoo (Oct 9, 2006)

From the article:

_In its brief, the school says t*he fact that Redding was an honors student who had never been in trouble before is not evidence of good conduct, but only evidence that she had never been caught.*
_
_The school views itself as a protector of its students' health and safety, which includes protecting students from both illegal and over-the-counter drugs. *From the school's viewpoint, any suspicion that a student possesses drugs may be justification for a strip search*._

Essentially this school believes that you are guilty until proven innocent (and even then the girl wasn't allowed to go back to class,) and that the ends justify the means. Heck, even cops have to have something more to go on to do a search like this. And apparently the protection of "health" this school claims to protect doesn't extend to mental anguish.

This is truly horrible. I'd yank my kids out of this school faster than you can say "law suit."


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

This makes me sick. This kind of [email protected] is why I will not ever put my kids in public schools. I was a public school teacher and this sort of attitude is pretty common.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

re: the "guilty until proven innocent" comments. I have to say that, as much as this story turns my stomach, the school is right on that point. There have always been plenty of "good" kids who are up to all kinds of crap behind the backs of their parents and teachers and who count on their good reps to protect them from even being under suspicion. Being an honour student, or never having been in trouble before, doesn't mean you're always on good behaviour. DS1 is a great kid, with a really good rep at school - but that doesn't mean he's never going to be tempted to get hammered with his friends or smoke a joint (I hope he doesn't, as his family background makes me very paranoid about drug use).

That said...it's no excuse for doing this - none at all. Just the fact that anybody thinks that _ibuprofen_ is strip-search worthy disturbs me to no end. The fact that they did this to a school kid, with no probable cause (a random accusation from another student certainly doesn't qualify - wonder if school authorities have ever heard of a grudge?) is outrageous...absolutely outrageous. It terrifies me that they still seem to believe this was an acceptable course of action.


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## LauraLoo (Oct 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
re: the "guilty until proven innocent" comments. I have to say that, as much as this story turns my stomach, the school is right on that point. There have always been plenty of "good" kids who are up to all kinds of crap behind the backs of their parents and teachers and who count on their good reps to protect them from even being under suspicion. Being an honour student, or never having been in trouble before, doesn't mean you're always on good behaviour.

Of course, there's always a first time for offenders and yes, even good kids can make mistakes. But the school went on another child's accusation as probable cause, they *assumed* that the girl was guilty and they just needed to catch her. Even when no evidence was found, the girl was retained from going back to class. That just reeks of witch hunting.


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

I think if the offense is so bad that they are strip searching they really out to be calling the cops, not handling it at school. How violating.

I talked to my 13 year old today and I said, "If you are EVER in trouble at school they are to call me, and you are NEVER EVER to undress in front of anyone at school. They are NOT allowed to do that to you ever."

Now my kid is an honors student, as geeky and shy as can be, so I'm not feeling like drug dealing is in her future, but I wanted her to know that under no circumstances is the school allowed to circumvent me, or attempt to mentally/emotionally/physically assault my child's well being.

This is why I hate public school. We would homeschool, if my kids weren't so damn social.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LauraLoo* 
Of course, there's always a first time for offenders and yes, even good kids can make mistakes.

That wasn't actually my point. A lot of "good" kids _are_ kids who simply haven't been caught yet. I can't imagine anybody teaching or working in administration at a public school without realizing that. I can't imagine anybody going through public school as a student without realizing that.

Quote:

But the school went on another child's accusation as probable cause, they *assumed* that the girl was guilty and they just needed to catch her. Even when no evidence was found, the girl was retained from going back to class. That just reeks of witch hunting.
I don't see it as witch hunting, but I see it as incredibly short-sighted. There's no reason to believe the girl who made the accusation, because she could have had any of a wide variety of motives for it (first person she thought of to pass the blame, the guy she likes is interested in the girl who got searched, hates her for being on the honour roll, etc. etc. etc.). However, I don't think the girl's status as a honour student has anything to do with the issue at hand.


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## earthgirl (Feb 6, 2006)

This story has been bothering me all day. I just don't even have the words to express how angry it makes me. And count me among the others who just got yet one more reason to homeschool. Let's hope the supreme court does the right thing this time.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *earthgirl* 
Let's hope the supreme court does the right thing this time.

I think I'm more bothered by the idea that there's any doubt which way the court will rule than I am by the strip search itself. It's one thing that some school administrators may have _way_ over-stepped their bounds...but it's much, much scarier to me that it may end up being legally sanctioned!


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## SashaBreeze (Apr 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dr.Worm* 
I explained to her that sometimes schools tell kids to take off their clothes and search them for stolen things..and that she has the right to say NO, I WANT YOU TO CALL MY MOM! She is only in third grade but I am not taking any chances that it can't start in elementary school. (









You definitely did the right thing.









Sadly you are also right to have that fear/concern even at an elementary lvl. My friends dd was in K last year. One day her dd comes home from school acting very strange and withdrawn, she finally told her mom what was bothering her. "A lady looked at my private parts today." Needless to say my friend was beyond upset. She called the school and they told her that her dd was itching a lot in class so they had taken her to the nurses office and had a licenced nurse from the health department come in and "examine her" for sexual abuse. But don't worry we didn't find anything."







She went off on them then called the health department and talked with them they told her that they were completely within their rights because #1 It is the school's responsibility to investigate all suspicion of child abuse. and #2 Her dd had already been red flagged because she had a past cps investigation.
Her past cps investigation was that when her dd was younger she took her to the ER several times for extreme joint pain/swelling and the cps got involved. After several months of extreme emotional stress they got their dd in with a specialist and it turned out that her dd had/has juvenile rheumatoid arthritis that she is on medication for now. The case was dropped but apparently the public school still considered it enough for her dd to be red flagged for possible abuse?
Sadly that is as far is my friend took it. She considered homeschool for a little while, her dd was a nervous wreck and deeply disturbed/distrustful of adults for a long while after. She has talked at length with her that she NEVER has to do that again, but can a little one like that really say no and be listened to by those kind of people?
No child of any age should be subjected to that.







My heart goes out to the girl in the story, it's so sad/anger inducing.


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

I couldn't even finish the article. That poor girl and what she must have been feeling as the people she trusted violated her in such a terrible way. I don't even know what to say.

I will be bringing this up at my own LO's school and seeing what their views are about it. I'll also ask DH what he thinks about it since he has the LE angle.

Absolutely horrific.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SashaBreeze* 







You definitely did the right thing.









Sadly you are also right to have that fear/concern even at an elementary lvl. My friends dd was in K last year. One day her dd comes home from school acting very strange and withdrawn, she finally told her mom what was bothering her. "A lady looked at my private parts today." Needless to say my friend was beyond upset. She called the school and they told her that her dd was itching a lot in class so they had taken her to the nurses office and had a licenced nurse from the health department come in and "examine her" for sexual abuse. But don't worry we didn't find anything."







She went off on them then called the health department and talked with them they told her that they were completely within their rights because #1 It is the school's responsibility to investigate all suspicion of child abuse. and #2 Her dd had already been red flagged because she had a past cps investigation.
Her past cps investigation was that when her dd was younger she took her to the ER several times for extreme joint pain/swelling and the cps got involved. After several months of extreme emotional stress they got their dd in with a specialist and it turned out that her dd had/has juvenile rheumatoid arthritis that she is on medication for now. The case was dropped but apparently the public school still considered it enough for her dd to be red flagged for possible abuse?
Sadly that is as far is my friend took it. She considered homeschool for a little while, her dd was a nervous wreck and deeply disturbed/distrustful of adults for a long while after. She has talked at length with her that she NEVER has to do that again, but can a little one like that really say no and be listened to by those kind of people?
No child of any age should be subjected to that.







My heart goes out to the girl in the story, it's so sad/anger inducing.

What infuriates me about stories like this is that nobody involved will ever acknowledge that her dd _was_ sexually abused...by the school system. I cannot imagine having a strange nurse come to my school and look at my genitals when I was a kid. Holy crap - how traumatizing.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Stupid, stupid school.









I would have been severely traumatized by something like that. I imagine most young girls would have.









I hope the school gets what's coming to them.







:

And all this is reason #768 that we homeschool.







:


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

This type of thing used to be common place, not necessarily "strip searching" but forcing a child to go in front of a "board" in nothing but their underwear. I know because it happened to my mom in the 60's because she was deemed socially awkward because she hated these 2 girls who repeatedly harassed her. My G-ma let her be taken into a room in front of a panel of all men and they looked her over and said horrid things to her about her appearance and subjected her to a bunch of b.s. "tests".

I know it's a different type of thing, but both are a complete violation of a child's rights.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

oh my . . .i feel like I am going to throw up.

I am severly traumatized just reading about it. the thought of people taking my clothes off and touching me. horrifying. I grew up with drug dogs and such and have no problem with that (it was a police matter and school officials had no interaction with the students. the first thing the police did was contact parents) but this is just a violation. I can't imagine anyone telling my children to take their clothes off. I don't even let them have medical screenings at school. strangers do not get to touch their bodies. period. grrr, guess I have to teach my children what to do if this happens to them. perhaps I should have them carry my attorneys number as well. . . .


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## suziek (Jun 4, 2004)

I remember reading about this when the girl first filed suit. It is just insane. I simply don't understand why the school administration didn't just keep the student in the office until a parent arrived to help sort the matter out.

I hope I manage to teach my children to really defend themselves against this kind of tyranny. I don't know what we can really expect a young girl to do, but wouldn't it be awesome if our daughters (and sons) would respectfully and forcefully say "I will absolutely not do what you are asking. What you are asking is wrong. It is invasive, predatory, illegal. I want my parents here before you ask me to do another thing." Then I'd want her to say she wanted the presence of another party--say a trusted teacher--until mom and dad arrived.

There were some funny moments in the NPR story today. Apparently one of the (male) justice said, "kids don't care about taking their clothes off. They do it in locker rooms all the time." Ruth Bader Ginsburg--the sole woman on the court--took her colleague to task quite firmly. Also, one of the other justices said he often stuck stuff in his underwear as a kid. WOW!


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## TwinsTwicePlusTwo (Dec 7, 2008)

I can't express how angry this makes me and remain within the UA. It even makes me wonder about the private school I send my two girls to. I'm sure they would never do anything this extreme (they'd be too afraid of getting sued), but they have some pretty silly rules that DD1 always seems to be breaking. Maybe I should just homeschool them all.

And we do need to make sure our children are fully aware of their rights and how to stand up for them. Sadly, no-one else can be trusted to help or protect them.


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## AutumnMoonfire (Dec 29, 2001)

And all this over advil and tobacco???

We need to get lives in this country!!


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

no crap.


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## theretohere (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SashaBreeze* 







You definitely did the right thing.









Sadly you are also right to have that fear/concern even at an elementary lvl. My friends dd was in K last year. One day her dd comes home from school acting very strange and withdrawn, she finally told her mom what was bothering her. "A lady looked at my private parts today." Needless to say my friend was beyond upset. She called the school and they told her that her dd was itching a lot in class so they had taken her to the nurses office and had a licenced nurse from the health department come in and "examine her" for sexual abuse. But don't worry we didn't find anything."







She went off on them then called the health department and talked with them they told her that they were completely within their rights because #1 It is the school's responsibility to investigate all suspicion of child abuse. and #2 Her dd had already been red flagged because she had a past cps investigation.
Her past cps investigation was that when her dd was younger she took her to the ER several times for extreme joint pain/swelling and the cps got involved. After several months of extreme emotional stress they got their dd in with a specialist and it turned out that her dd had/has juvenile rheumatoid arthritis that she is on medication for now. The case was dropped but apparently the public school still considered it enough for her dd to be red flagged for possible abuse?
Sadly that is as far is my friend took it. She considered homeschool for a little while, her dd was a nervous wreck and deeply disturbed/distrustful of adults for a long while after. She has talked at length with her that she NEVER has to do that again, but can a little one like that really say no and be listened to by those kind of people?
No child of any age should be subjected to that.








My heart goes out to the girl in the story, it's so sad/anger inducing.

That horrifies me!


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## SashaBreeze (Apr 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *theretohere* 
That horrifies me!

It horrified me as well when she told me, I don't think I had every been so grateful in my life, before or since, that we homeschool.
I still find myself thinking about it and wishing that more had been done to punish the school for it, but apparently they had been within their "legal" rights. I know their are good teachers out there, but the system is rotten to the point of stench and seems to just be getting worse.


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## Frootloop (Aug 10, 2007)

Holy







.. this story has me extremely







off right now.







I am beyond fuming. From the viewpoint of being a sexual abuse surviver.. *OMG*.. If this happened to my child, I would seriously come unglued on someone. A child being forced to strip for ibuprofen? Seriously? They shouldn't be strip-searched period, but for freakin' IBUPROFEN?!?!?! Oh, hell no.

Two years ago, when my son (who is learning disabled and in special ed) was 13 yrs old, he was suspected by his teacher of being on drugs simply because he had been talking to another boy in his small 12 student classroom who had a bit of a troubled past.. and DS had slacked off on his schoolwork a bit. I found out after school that DS had had his locker, backpack, and pockets searched, and had to take off his overshirt (hoodie). I was never made aware of any of this until my son told me that afternoon. I raised all kinds of hell with his teacher, who had informed the principal of the "suspicion", and then later with the principal and guidance counselor, who was the last to speak to my son about this. I should have been called immediately when "suspicions" arose. I should have been called before any search was performed at all, but I was never called PERIOD! I had to find out from my son, who was made to feel like criminal for no reason besides talking to a boy with a troubled past. The school's excuse was that since DS had been slacking off (not unusual at all, he goes through these periods) and talking to a boy who smoked cigarettes and had been in trouble in the past, that they wanted to "protect him". They apologized profusely to my son and I, and I let the issue drop. I'm suddenly feeling that I should have pushed the issue much further.

I just pulled both of my kids in the room this morning after reading this story.. I informed both of them that they have the right to say no and that NO ONE has the right to force them to take off any of their clothing. If either of them are pulled into the office for suspicion of drugs or anything else for that matter, I am to be called immediately. If I am not, the school will soooooooooo regret it. There will be hell to pay.

You do *NOT* sexually abuse my children.. and that is EXACTLY what that school did to this poor girl. My heart breaks for her and her family.









And to the PP whose daughter was "examined" for sexual abuse? Omg, THEY sexually abused her! My heart is with you, too!!


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

Here's a link (aclu link) with a video interview of the girl... and a way to send a support message. How intrusive.

https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageSe...5rw5p11.app25a


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## Quinalla (May 23, 2005)

Searching lockers or bags is one thing and I agree with allowing schools to do those searches, but strip searching is not something a school should be allowed to do and it is even more ridiculous if it was just over cigarettes and ibuprofen with the word of another student against her is all.


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't care if a teacher SAW a kid stick the drugs in his pants....NO KID ever ever should be strip searched in school. This is so so bad and so violating. WHY didn't this girl call her parents?? Oh I just wish the poor thing had said "call my mom, NOW". This is why my kids aren't going to PS....it's turned into some kind of circus jail.

If this had happened to me when I was a 13 year old girl, I cannot imagine the impact it would have had on me. This is horrifying to me. THe comments made by the school after the fact are even more sickening.

If this happened to my kid....I don't even know what I would do, in the blind rage that followed. How completely terrible, that you think your kid is safe at school and she's being abused by the people who are supposed to at the VERY LEAST not strip search her in front of school administrators. Holy cow.


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## Materfamilias (Feb 22, 2008)

Another reason I'm glad I'm homeschoolin' next year...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AverysMomma* 
I don't care if a teacher SAW a kid stick the drugs in his pants....NO KID ever ever should be strip searched in school. This is so so bad and so violating. WHY didn't this girl call her parents?? Oh I just wish the poor thing had said "call my mom, NOW".

Because, kids aren't encouraged to believe that they have any rights at school at all. They never have been.

Quote:

If this had happened to me when I was a 13 year old girl, I cannot imagine the impact it would have had on me. This is horrifying to me. THe comments made by the school after the fact are even more sickening.
This didn't happen to me, but I was sexually abused by a school employee in 6th and 7th grade. It caused me issues with the school system that never went away, and contributed greatly to my "behaviour issues" and "attitude problem" in high school (our schools were K-7, and 8-12)...not that anybody cared, because I wasn't even an honour roll student, just a problem.


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

SB, I think that happens way more than people want to realize. Sounds awful, sorry you had to endure all of that.

Another one while in the public school situation: My mom didn't have $ when I was a kid, so I had my school physicals thru the school appointed Dr. that would come in during school hours. My turn came & he & I were the only ones in this little room near the main office. I was wearing one of those shorts/halter jumpers (all one piece) & the doc tried to pull it up as if it were a skirt and so I told him it was shorts, but he pulled it into my crack a few times (sorry, don't know how else to explain that correctly) with me getting creeped out and trying to tell him it had to come down from the top. So, he untied the top straps & pulled it down til my jumper was around my ankles & I was there, nude except for my underwear. I was only 9 or 10 but clearly remember feeling uneasy & wanting out of there fast. Clearly enough to remember the guy's face, what I was wearing exactly, the look of that room and how I felt. All of that, & I didn't tell my mom. WHY?? B'c I thought that was what he was supposed to do, I guess?

Anyway, I'm sure these creeps and power hungry disciplinarians count on the fact that kids know/think that they have to follow adults' rules. I'm happy to see that some pp's are already teaching their kids the truth about having to follow authority. Gross.


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Because, kids aren't encouraged to believe that they have any rights at school at all. They never have been.

ITA.

Quote:

"We just have to ask ourselves, as a policy matter, do you really want a drug-free environment? And if you do, then *there are going to be some privacy invasions* when there is reason to suspect that those drugs are being dispensed on campus"
How far will it go? Would they go as far as pelvic/body cavity searches too??

I am furious at what happened to that girl!

Quote:

The question for the Supreme Court is where the Constitution draws the line: *Do school administrators have virtual free rein in determining what justifies a strip search?*
I am so scared what the Court might decide on this.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I'd rather not have a drug-free environment, if having one requires strip searching students...especially over ibuprofen!...and especially based on one unsubstantiated accusation from another student! The strip search alone is horrifying, but the circumstances are just...I don't even have words for how far out of line this is.


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## Miasmamma (Sep 20, 2006)

I have to admit that the thing that bothers me the most is that there was no mention of asking to or trying to contact her parents. The fact that our children have been taught that people "in charge" can do what they want is terrifying. I was planning on homeschooling my kids, but now I will no matter what. I really have no words to adequately express what I am feeling right now. I can say that had that been my daughter, my DH would have shot first and asked questions later. My heart just breaks for this girl and all the others that haven't come forward.


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Miasmamma* 
I have to admit that the thing that bothers me the most is that there was no mention of asking to or trying to contact her parents. *The fact that our children have been taught that people "in charge" can do what they want is terrifying.* I was planning on homeschooling my kids, but now I will no matter what. I really have no words to adequately express what I am feeling right now. I can say that had that been my daughter, *my DH would have shot first and asked questions later.* My heart just breaks for this girl and all the others that haven't come forward.









: , especially what I bolded there.


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## kiara7 (Feb 14, 2008)

Quote:

"We just have to ask ourselves, as a policy matter, do you really want a drug-free environment? And if you do, then there are going to be some privacy invasions when there is reason to suspect that those drugs are being dispensed on campus"
*
"Those that would sacrifice Freedom for Security deserve neither."*


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kiara7* 
*
"Those that would sacrifice Freedom for Security deserve neither."*

Yeah...not that I think protecting someone with a headache from the evils of ibuprofen really falls under "security", in any case.


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## kiara7 (Feb 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Yeah...not that I think protecting someone with a headache from the evils of ibuprofen really falls under "security", in any case.

I was responding to this:

Quote:

"We just have to ask ourselves, as a policy matter, do you really want a drug-free environment? And if you do, then there are going to be some privacy invasions when there is reason to suspect that those drugs are being dispensed on campus"
Drug-free environment vs. privacy invasions like strip searches.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kiara7* 
I was responding to this:

Drug-free environment vs. privacy invasions like strip searches.

Oh, I know. I totally agree with you. It just adds a whole other level of...I don't even know what...that the drug in this case was an OTC painkiller.


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## kiara7 (Feb 14, 2008)

Yeah, they sure made it sound like heroin


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## Jennifer3141 (Mar 7, 2004)

I cannot imagine the rage I would feel if someone did this to my child. I am so grateful for homeschooling. Public schooling has gotten completely INSANE is so many ways in this country.


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## cak1207 (Dec 2, 2007)

Wow! This reminds me of when I went to middle school we had those Scoliosis tests and we were told to go in shirtless and bra less (I don't think I even wore a bra then) but then some parents got angry and we were allowed to wear a bra. I was so uncomfortable as this man ran his hands up and down my back while I had nothing on. Ugh!

But this reminds me of this story:
http://www.10news.com/news/1424826/detail.html

Where the faculty lifted the skirts of girls at this dance to see if they were wearing a thong and if they were they were not allowed to participate. I don't know what ever happened with that story but this made me think of it.

Found a link that says the teacher was suspended but also said at a costume party guys were forced to show their underwear to make sure they had some on...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cak1207* 
Where the faculty lifted the skirts of girls at this dance to see if they were wearing a thong and if they were they were not allowed to participate. I don't know what ever happened with that story but this made me think of it.

yeah...because it's inappropriate for a girl to wear the underwear of her choice...but it's appropriate for an authority figure to check out her nether regions.

Oh, my head!


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## LuxPerpetua (Dec 17, 2003)

I cannot fathom just how little common sense exists in the educational bureaucracy. When I was in 10th grade I had a male student attempt to strangle me in a classroom filled with other students because I had pushed him away from me after repeated attempts of telling him to go away (he later claimed that my pushing him violated his religion--Islam--because women were not supposed to touch men). After the attempted physical threat, he proceeded to hurl violent and obscene insults at me all day, again with teachers and students around. No one lifted a finger. When my parents contacted the principal, he had me sit down with the male student and told the male student to apologize and that I should just "forget about it" because it wasn't as bad as what I said it was. Um, yeah. And I was a straight-A, honor student, and nobody took me seriously (not that it should matter about the straight-A's!). My child will be homeschooled, no questions about it.


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## JD5351 (Sep 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cak1207* 
Wow! This reminds me of when I went to middle school we had those Scoliosis tests and we were told to go in shirtless and bra less (I don't think I even wore a bra then) but then some parents got angry and we were allowed to wear a bra. I was so uncomfortable as this man ran his hands up and down my back while I had nothing on. Ugh!

I remember the scoliosis tests. A letter went home about it a week before, and if your parents said no, then you didn't have to do the screening, but it was recommended that you visit your dr to be checked. We were permitted to wear a bra, and they recommended us to wear a baggy shirt that we could just pull up the back for privacy, and it was with the female school nurse. Most of us didn't wear bra's yet, but I know me and all my friend's did on that day. I didn't have scoliosis, but the nurse did spot some abnormal moles on my back and she called my mom to let her know that they should be looked at in case they would become cancerous.

I feel so lucky that my school respected us that much. I know they would never do a strip search, but they would call you to the office. If another student blamed you for something, they would call both into mediation and call your parents in if there were any suspicions. They would also periodically have the drug dogs come in. (I don't think they ever found anything, other than one time there was a Junior class bake sale to benefit prom, and the dogs went nuts at one guys locker. Turns out he had peanut butter cookies in there and the dogs went nuts...lol)


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## G-Dawg (Oct 9, 2002)

I grew up in the town neighboring Safford. This is an awful school. The drug and teen pregnancy rates are sky high. And those problems start very, very young.

It's a small school, everyone knows who has drugs and who doesn't. I am confused as to why she was targeted when there are kids running around in the hall that are known users.

Very confusing to me. My kids are in public school, but I would be terrified to put them in Safford School District.


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

Quote:

I remember the scoliosis tests. A letter went home about it a week before, and if your parents said no, then you didn't have to do the screening, but it was recommended that you visit your dr to be checked.
I don't know if my parents had an option to opt out or not, but I had it done and it was by a female nurse who made some comments about my weight (I was not overweight!!!) that caused some severe body image issues with me for several years after that.


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## JD5351 (Sep 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitfulmomma* 
I don't know if my parents had an option to opt out or not, but I had it done and it was by a female nurse who made some comments about my weight (I was not overweight!!!) that caused some severe body image issues with me for several years after that.

That's awful! Our nurse was great.









I do remember one at a previous school who used to try and get me to walk flat footed--I have contracted muscles in both legs, and walk slightly tip-toed. She would try and make me put my heels down and walk up and down the hallway. I told my grandma and she came in and threw a fit. Never happened again.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

This whole story makes me sick. I think the officals who did the strip search should be prosecuted.


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## kblackstone444 (Jun 17, 2007)

Let me just put it this way... I am not one of those sue-happy people, but if anyone, ANYONE tried anything like that to either of my children, they'd better prepare for a lawsuit like they'd never seen before! I'd consider it sexual abuse, reckless endangerment, abuse of power, all that.


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## Mama~Love (Dec 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breeder* 
This whole story makes me sick. I think the officals who did the strip search should be prosecuted.

Ditto.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *harleyhalfmoon* 
Let me just put it this way... I am not one of those sue-happy people, but if anyone, ANYONE tried anything like that to either of my children, they'd better prepare for a lawsuit like they'd never seen before! I'd consider it sexual abuse, reckless endangerment, abuse of power, all that.









Double ditto!


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## KarlaC (Mar 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breeder* 
This whole story makes me sick. I think the officals who did the strip search should be prosecuted.

Or paraded 3/4 naked in front of a group of people they see on a regular basis then forced to show them their genitals.

I really don't care that the girl was an honor student, no child(guilty or innocent) should be forced into such a position & the people who put her there should be punished for it.


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## Spirit Dancer (Dec 11, 2006)

That poor, poor child. God help anyone who would ever do a thing like that to one of my children. Totally, totally appalling and unacceptable.

God help us all.


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

After speaking with my husband about this last night...I have become more and more angry about this. What is wrong with us, that this is not cause for immediate prosecution of these administrators.

If I were the school nurse, I would have refused to do that to a young girl.

If I were this girls parents and hadn't been called before they strip searched my DD....I would have killed someone. KILLED someone. I don't know that I would be able to stop myself...

Why have we made this rapid rapid shift to parents not having rights. Forget about the CHILDREN having rights...I know that it's WAAAY too much to ask that they even regard the children as people, to be respected.....but what about the parents rights as PARENTS?

Who in their right mind...STRIP SEARCHES a minor girl, without parental notification??? Who DOES that?? I'm telling you....our schools are junk these days. JUNK I tell you!!


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Miasmamma* 
I have to admit that the thing that bothers me the most is that there was no mention of asking to or trying to contact her parents. The fact that our children have been taught that people "in charge" can do what they want is terrifying. I was planning on homeschooling my kids, but now I will no matter what. I really have no words to adequately express what I am feeling right now. I can say that had that been my daughter, my DH would have shot first and asked questions later. My heart just breaks for this girl and all the others that haven't come forward.

Yes..because when I told DD that she had the right to say no she actually said something like "but I will get in trouble" and I explained to her that THEY are not the boss of her I AM and I would deal with it when I got there...oh would I ever.







I really agree on this..the schools act like the parents..it is very twisted.







:


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kiara7* 
*
"those that would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither."*

hell yes


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SashaBreeze* 







You definitely did the right thing.









Sadly you are also right to have that fear/concern even at an elementary lvl. My friends dd was in K last year. One day her dd comes home from school acting very strange and withdrawn, she finally told her mom what was bothering her. "A lady looked at my private parts today." Needless to say my friend was beyond upset. She called the school and they told her that her dd was itching a lot in class so they had taken her to the nurses office and had a licenced nurse from the health department come in and "examine her" for sexual abuse. But don't worry we didn't find anything."







She went off on them then called the health department and talked with them they told her that they were completely within their rights because #1 It is the school's responsibility to investigate all suspicion of child abuse. and #2 Her dd had already been red flagged because she had a past cps investigation.
Her past cps investigation was that when her dd was younger she took her to the ER several times for extreme joint pain/swelling and the cps got involved. After several months of extreme emotional stress they got their dd in with a specialist and it turned out that her dd had/has juvenile rheumatoid arthritis that she is on medication for now. The case was dropped but apparently the public school still considered it enough for her dd to be red flagged for possible abuse?
Sadly that is as far is my friend took it. She considered homeschool for a little while, her dd was a nervous wreck and deeply disturbed/distrustful of adults for a long while after. She has talked at length with her that she NEVER has to do that again, but can a little one like that really say no and be listened to by those kind of people?
No child of any age should be subjected to that.







My heart goes out to the girl in the story, it's so sad/anger inducing.

Yes and unfortunately, I had some troubles like this before although not to the extent of your friend's troubles. My dd had been squirming in her seat in first grade, it was a nervous habit and she has sensory issues, I also have them and did it myself in first grade. Her teacher told me about it and i said I would talk to dd which I did. The teacher then runs and reports it to the nurse and I am very surprised because she doesn't tell me this is happening, she tells the nurse..so she stops it...then next year DD has a mean yelling teacher who DD is afraid of and starts doing it again..I tried to explain nicely in a non-accusatory way that she is afraid of yelling because her dad yelled before we were separated. I talk to dd and think it has stopped because when next report card comes teacher says we don't need a conference but she actually went to the nurse and the counselour who are convinced she is being molested...by the way, i took her to the doctor before this and she was fine...so the counselour is asking me about the squirming and the pfa in xh's file like he is molesting her....i take her to the doc and a therapist at work,..she is fine...then she gets sick and starts up again...she had a chart to keep track..i had to have a meeting at school with teacher, nurse, psychologist and principal...i brought my mom and chart to prove it was only when she was sick. they let it go but i was ready to pull her out this year until we found out she was getting the teacher her friend had who is awesome..she IS awesome and told ME about her doing it and helped with the chart...she and the counselour are being nice so far...but her math teacher is mean and DD already says she doesn't want to go next year...she is terrified at school and who can blame her? IT IS A TERRIFYING PLACE


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

And another thing....when did we stop teaching our children about that little voice inside of them, that tells them when something is not right?? When did we stop telling them that their body is their OWN and that if something is crepping them out, that they have the right, NAY, the DUTY, to turn tail and get away from the situation??

I swear, this is why we have turned into a nation of idiots, who couldn't hear their own intuition if it were screaming in a bullhorn!! This is why we have so many mamas and papas buying into bogus nonsense about how this or that is "soo dangerous"...people don't listen to that little voice anymore. We have become completely comfortable with putting our lives, decisions and BODIES into the hands of the "people in charge"...it makes me sick.

Nobody knows what's best for my kids but me and their dad. Period.


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## suziek (Jun 4, 2004)

Avery's mom makes a great point.

Forget abut a civil suit. Charge those school administration with some kind of sexual violence crime and arrest them!

Imagine: One adult delivers a 13 year old girl to two other adults who force her to take her clothes off and show them her genitals. Wait. We don't have to imagine this. It's what happened to this child. Horrible. Criminal.

She and her family are very courageous.


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

WHEN are they going to make their decision???? I can't stand this!!!


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## KarlaC (Mar 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dr.Worm* 
WHEN are they going to make their decision???? I can't stand this!!!









:


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

Now here's the disturbing thing. Minors can be charged for sending nude/semi-nude pics to each other, yet these school officials strip searched a minor and are still not jailed?

I hope these school officials get what they deserve, because if the Supreme Court finds in their favor, sexual predators in schools with rejoice with all the prey at their disposal.


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Equuskia* 
Now here's the disturbing thing. Minors can be charged for sending nude/semi-nude pics to each other, yet these school officials strip searched a minor and are still not jailed?

I hope these school officials get what they deserve, because if the Supreme Court finds in their favor, sexual predators in schools with rejoice with all the prey at their disposal.









Yes..how sick and scary is that.


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## kbond (Apr 29, 2008)

The Court will hear oral arguments for the case on Tuesday, the 28th, I believe. After that, it'll probably be a couple of months, at least, before a decision is released and published. The Supreme Court moves at glacial speed.


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kbond* 
The Court will hear oral arguments for the case on Tuesday, the 28th, I believe. After that, it'll probably be a couple of months, at least, before a decision is released and published. The Supreme Court moves at glacial speed.

oh brother


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## nolonger (Jan 18, 2006)

Just a little PSA:

I decided to homeschool too. I was willing to make great financial sacrifices in order to do so. I worked nights so I could homeschool days. I got both food and textbooks from dumpsters when I could.

My ex husband decided that my son should go to public school. My parents liked that idea because they wanted me to get a day job and a weekend job as well as my night job and, as my father told my son, "most men want working wives these days. Even doctors, who could afford to have wives who don't work, usually want sailboats instead so no matter what the wife's druthers are, the children have to go to public school."

I guess he forgot that I'd been divorced for twelve years or else he thought it didn't matter. I guess he forgot that my ex husband hadn't worked or paid child support in seven years or else he thought that didn't matter either.

It really didn't matter, because I showed the police my custody order that my ex had signed agreeing to give me the right to make educational decisions, but the police didn't enforce it because homeschooling is "weird".

So I have a kid in public school.

I know you don't think this could happen to you because you are smarter than me, went to a better college than me, have a more supportive coparent than me, aren't as naive as I was to think that I had family support when I didn't, and are just all around cooler than me. I'm not here to argue with you about that and I hope from the bottom of my heart that you are right and that you never, EVER have to go through the heartbreak I have been enduring for the past two and a half years.

I thought I didn't have to care about what went on in public schools.

I was wrong.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

I'm sorry for what you've gone through, noordinaryspider.
I homeschool, but I care very much about what goes on in public schools. I've watched the trend of criminalizing children in the public school system, and it concerns me greatly. I'm not sure what to do about it other than spread the word, and hope that someone in power cares.
I'm very worried about the decision in this case. Worried, but hopeful.


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## SashaBreeze (Apr 18, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lotusdebi* 
I'm sorry for what you've gone through, noordinaryspider.
I homeschool, but I care very much about what goes on in public schools. I've watched the trend of criminalizing children in the public school system, and it concerns me greatly. I'm not sure what to do about it other than spread the word, and hope that someone in power cares.
I'm very worried about the decision in this case. Worried, but hopeful.

I agree.
Although we homeschool I still have many children that I love that do go to ps. Family and dc of friends. Also, it doesn't matter if I know the child personally or not, NO child should have to go through that.
I think this is an over all "How our society views children's rights" topic rather than just a ps issue.


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## suziek (Jun 4, 2004)

There's also a compelling gender component of all this that I don't really see being addressed by the media and the court. There was some conversation in court the day arguments were heard about how children are accustomed to undressing as a group for gym, etc. The justice talking about this was male, and was suggesting that boys dressing for gym as a group was somehow similar to a single pubescent girl being forced to undress and show her genitals to adults in a punative situation. A HUGE difference. Context can be everything is situations like this. My sons shower together. And they love to be naked. So does it follow that if an adult male drags one of them out of a group setting, coerces him to undress and then takes a shower with him it should be okay because he is used to shower with another person and he likes to be naked? My kids would be terrified and damaged by such a situation and so, by her own account, was this young girl.

At least there is one woman on the court--and she did beg to differ with her colleague about the difference between boys and girls and their relative comfort levels.

Still, I don't see the wider culture particularly alarmed about the coercion and the psycho-sexual damage this incident risked. I can't believe the somewhat general assumption that children and young teens SHOULD be expected to disrobe for adults on command in some circumstances, and the court is just figuring what those circumstances are.

It is all so sick.

I wonder if the anti-sexual abuse advocates have made noise about this, and I've just missed it?


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