# Unwanted gifts from relatives



## ElorasMama (Nov 17, 2004)

Hi, I'm once again giving myself a headache trying to decide what to do about excessive and (what I feel are) inappropriate gifts from grandparents for my 6-year-old DD. We have politely asked the relatives not to give DD any gifts that involve TV/movie characters (DD doesn't watch TV and only very occasionally sees movies.) Particularly for girls, I just don't feel that these characters are good role models.

My mom has grudgingly agreed to this in the past, but for the last few years she seems to be trying to see what she can get away with. Today I am irked because:
Late last year my mom took DD shopping and they came home with a brand-new Snow White doll. Didn't ask me about this before the shopping trip. My mom took it out of the bag, handed it to DD, and while she was handing it to her she half-looked at me and said, "She was looking at it in the store," in a voice that somehow implied that because my then-5-year-old looked at it, it would be ok. Didn't feel like taking it away from my daughter right then and there. I did tell my mother that we still don't allow tv/movie characters for DD, which she got hyper defefnsive about. DD took the doll home and played with it, and the doll "disappeared" after a couple of months, which DD barely noticed. Flash forward to today, where my mom took DD with her to the store, and they came home with another new Snow White doll. Mom took it out of the box, mumbled, "I got her this to replace the one that she lost," with DD standing right there, and handed it to DD. Again, I wasn't going to make a fuss about it with DD there, which is stupid of me because I know this is my mother's way of controlling the situation. She is very manipulative. I felt really annoyed, which my mom picked up on, and she left my house shortly afterward. Because she runs away instead of talking about stuff.

So here's my question - isn't it MY right, as a parent, to decide what kinds of toys my DD is/isn't allowed to have? I try not to be overly restrictive in guidelines, and I've discussed it politely with both sides of the family. My mom just keeps pushing me on this one. I don't like to make toys "disappear" and generally if kiddo gets something inappropriate I offer to trade with her for another toy - but with our budget so tight right now, I just can't afford to buy a new toy for her every time my mom shows up with some new plastic swaetshop-made Disney Princess piece of crap. Thoughts? Suggestions? I'm thinking about ripping out all of my hair.

Oh, and by the way, my daughter hasn't mentioned the first doll in ages and I highly, highly doubt that she mentioned the lost doll to Grandma. I really think Grandma asked her where her doll was, and then suggested replacing it.


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## Tjej (Jan 22, 2009)

Well, I think your DD is old enough that you should talk to her about it. She knows your values and how you feel about Disney, but she also might truly like that doll and want it. If you can talk about it without making your DD feel evil for wanting it, find out what your DD thinks/wants and go with that.

On a separate note, talk to your mom when your DD isn't around. Remind her that you don't like Disney/characters, BUT give her ideas of toys she could buy your child that you would appreciate. And don't send them out shopping together again.









This is all said by someone who agrees with your stance but lets Grandma buy the occassional Tink or Belle trinket for my DD. DD likes them even though she doesn't know their stories as Disney makes them. She just makes up her own stories with them. I've let Grandma know how I feel about them (don't like the marketing, etc.) but I also want to respect my mom and let her make her own decisions about how she wants to spend her money (and let DD enjoy the gifts my mom gives her). I do a lot of rotating out of toys, and the characters do find their way "out" a bit more easily than my favorite toys, but they also rotate back in on occassion. Anyway, that's how I roll.

HTH

Tjej


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Hm.

From my perspective, unless you are planning to homeschool and choose your child's friends, this is about to become a non-issue. Because she will meet other people with those toys / movies and she WILL incorporate them into her lexicon.

That said, I agree that your mom knew just what she was doing. And my opinion is that an involved, loving grandparent has the right to share a special memory with a grandchild.

I also think six is way more than old enough to choose toys. My child is three and chooses toys. I have veto power, but I don't veto dolls unless they look like hookers. We've never seen a princess movie but my daughter likes the shiny dresses. At bedtime I tell her stories about how she and Cinderella saved all the animals in the forest (if she wants a Cinderella story), or how she and Dora helped Diego when he got lost (she has never seen Diego... just got the idea he was cool from pre-school, I guess), or how she and Snow White were racecar drivers and won the Indy 500.

It is really not that big of a deal to me if she knows about those characters. It is the obsession with the overall narrative (damsel in distress) and the advertisement of character/brand based identities that is the problem. And that's just not going to happen with a grandparent buying a classic (sorry, it's nearly a half a century old, it's a classic) character doll, in my opinion.

Now, my mom really tries to respect my wishes about not buying them MIC junk that is just polluting China, supporting a mafia and slave labor, and really not educational at all.

However, she is a compulsive clearance-aisle shopper.

Which is why my daughter is now the proud owner of 14 pairs of Dora underwear.

"Nobody will see it so she won't be a walking advertisement."

Oh, mom, I love you.

Because you forgot that EVERYONE is going to see my three-year-old's underwear if it has Dora on it.









(There is a great essay about this in Animal, Vegetable, Miracle, by Kingsolver, btw... about how one time she walked in on her daughter saying to a small friend: "My mom won't let me have barbies but when I grow up I'm going to buy ALL THE BARBIES I WANT and she can't stop me!" Highly recommend the book and the essay.)


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## VillageMom6 (Dec 2, 2008)

I agree with the previous posts. I would just like to add to their ideas.

Your mother has decided that she doesn't care about your feelings in this area. What matters to her is what _she_ wants to do. In order to do this, she is counting on you not making a fuss, which is what you continue not to do (understandably).

But if you want this to stop, you're going to have to be willing to have an uncomfortable moment. What I'm suggesting isn't fun but it's effective.

The next time that your mother is manipulative by giving your daughter a known-no-no gift in front of you and dd, you'll need to say something like, "I'm sorry, Mom. I appreciate you wanting to give Susie a gift, but as I've explained we don't allow character items. Please return it and exchange it for something else.".

Then you have to turn into a broken record, saying the same thing over and over without change or else your mother will keep arguing.

She may say, "But Susie likes it!".

You say, "I understand but we don't allow character items. Please exchange it for something else."

Her: "It's just a little doll."

You: "I understand but we don't allow character items. Please exchange it for something else."

Her: "You're being unreasonable. No one else has a problem with a simple Snow White doll!"

You: "I understand but we don't allow character items. Please exchange it for something else."

Your mother may test your boundaries a time or two more, but believe me, she doesn't want the unpleasant encounter any more than you do. Once she realizes that you're willing to have one, she'll quit buying character items!

Good luck!


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElorasMama* 
So here's my question - isn't it MY right, as a parent, to decide what kinds of toys my DD is/isn't allowed to have? I try not to be overly restrictive in guidelines, and I've discussed it politely with both sides of the family. My mom just keeps pushing me on this one. I don't like to make toys "disappear" and generally if kiddo gets something inappropriate I offer to trade with her for another toy - but with our budget so tight right now, I just can't afford to buy a new toy for her every time my mom shows up with some new plastic swaetshop-made Disney Princess piece of crap. Thoughts? Suggestions? I'm thinking about ripping out all of my hair.

It is absolutely your right to decide what kinds of toys your daughter is allowed to have. It is NOT your right, IMO, to micromanage the gifts that other people give your children. Gifts are gifts--they are chosen by the giver. Although it would be fabulous if everyone shared our values and gave us exactly what we want, that isn't always reality.

When you are given a gift, I would accept it graciously. Model good manners for your daughter. What you then decide to do with that gift is up to you. If you want to "disappear" it, do so. If you want to tell your daughter why you think it is inappropriate, do that as well. But do NOT do that in front of your mother. I'm sure some people don't like the eco-friendly, crunchy toys I get their children, but I would feel horrible if I was chastised for giving a particular gift.

I say this as someone who gets a lot of gifts that are not in line with my values. We've expressed to the grandparents--nicely, and not in the moment when we are getting a gift--what things we try to avoid. Mostly, they respect our wishes, but sometimes we get stuff that is out of line with our values. We just say thanks. We're very anti-princess culture, and dd got a Disney Cinderella doll from a school friend for her birthday. We decided that making a production out of it would be worse than just letting her have it. So it's in a drawer, and every now and then she plays with it. That's okay with me. One princess doll isn't my hill to die on. Ultimately, the values you instill in your child will be a lot more powerful than a couple of days she played with when she was five.

FWIW, I had a dozens of Barbies as a kid and I grew into a pretty radical feminist.







The occasional objectionable toy will not dictate who your child is.


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## Oubliette8 (Apr 15, 2009)

I have to say, if someone told me "no character dolls" and I went out shopping, I might not necessarily consider Snow White to be in that category. I would be thinking more along the lines of Barney, Dora, Sponge Bob etc. The Disney princesses I might see as characters, but she didn't buy all the Disne princesses, she bought a single Snow White. Snow White IS a classic. Beyond Disney, the story itself is several hundred years old, perhaps more. Would you be upset about a doll of say, Little Red Riding Hood? If your daughter is interested in the doll, you could talk about the different versions of the story across different countries and time spans (they will probably need a bit of editing for a 5 year old) If the most trouble you've had is a single Snow White doll, I think you're doing ok, and your Mom is probably trying very hard to stick with your guidelines.


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## makinganescape (Nov 16, 2009)

I am someone who doesn't allow my girls to have character dolls. We live in a Disney free house. I don't have a tv, and I thoroughly censor what movies my girls see. My three year old knows this and will tell anyone (usually MIL) that I will not allow these things in my house. I think that a great solution is for you to leave those things at your moms house. I disagree with the previous poster who said that you should graciously accept all gifts. A lot of families use gift giving occasions for passive aggressiveness in areas where they think the parents are wrong. I think that you should let your daughter know that the reason your mom buys her things that you don't like is because she doesn't respect you, and use that as a teaching opportunity. It would be a nice gateway to explaining to her the type of relationship you want between yourself and her once she has kids.

I know where you are coming from. My mom buys juice boxes with sesame street characters on them. I have tried a million different ways to get her to understand that I don't want my daughter asking for elmo juice. She acts like
she doesn't have a brain in her head. I have heard: The juice with elmo on it, the juice that doesn't have elmo on it, the juice that isn't big bird or bert, and now she thinks that I don't want her to drink it at all... As if it is so hard to ask if a 3 year old wants apple, berry, or orange juice, she has to relate the flavor with the character on the box.


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## mumkimum (Nov 14, 2006)

I've dealt with similar stuff - we ask people not to get us character items. We don't get them for our children ourselves except minimal occasions where some character was particularly important and wanted by them, but that happens pretty rarely - and sometimes we'll say hey grandma, get some xyz character stickers or something.

BUT there have been times when MIL has a bag of stuff she got our kids, she'll pull out something and say "I know you won't like this but I got it for dd anyway, ha ha ha". I ALWAYS get rid of that stuff.
IMO, with her saying and presenting it like that it's not really about getting something for dd, nor about our dd actually wanting or enjoying said item. (This is less of an issue with other people, like my mom or sisters cause they give whatever items to me first, and kinda expect me to go through it and pull out and give the kiddos what they'll use/like best and give away the rest and MIL has a 'you must save every precious thing I give you' mentality about items she gives us and insists on taking things out of the packaging right away too).

I'm glad this has played out in more 'everyday' gifts for us at least, and not formal gifting occasions, at least. Often, when we have similar things (say we're given a character doll and we already have similar sized dolls) and I'm able to keep things in their packaging, I'll try to get dd to consider donating some items that I really don't want around (to toys for tots or something similar).
I understand and believe, too in being gracious about gifts and flexible in my kids relationships with our extended family - but I think you know best if this is aimed at being manipulative or harmlessly forgetful. Finding some way to talk with your dd about this, just the 2 of you, about your stance and getting her views on the situation, might help. I often resort to that, and there are times when dd has surprised me in otherwise problematic situations (like being given stuff we don't support) because she understands my values.









(ednamarie - really enjoy your post here & will have to check out that book







so funny)


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## mrspineau (Jan 15, 2008)

I think that it is your right to decide what type of toys you want your daughter to play with, however gifts are gifts and you can't monitor what other people choose to give. And, if you have a problem with it, then IMO it is your job to be "the bad guy" and not allow your daughter to have it on the spot, rather than taking it away later and saying that it disappeared. I think that for many, including myself, it is somewhat hard to understand the problem with character dolls/merchandise not being allowed. Even if TV or certain shows aren't allowed, which is moreso understandable. I know that my son doesn't know what toy story is, nor will he probably see the movie or care about it any time soon, but he does love his buzz lightyear toy. Not because of the movie, but because he likes the actual toy. I do have some restrictions on toys, mainly being no gun/weapon toys, and no toys that are sexualized in any way (like dolls with sexy clothes etc) but to me those things are more obvious. Something like snow white may not even be considered a character toy to an older generation because its from a story moreso than from a movie, if you know what i mean. Im not saying any of this to judge, it is completely your business what you want to allow or what you don't want to allow, but just giving a different perspective. I think that where these things are gifts, it's best to just accept it graciously, and let your daughter keep it, or, say right at the time of giving say that you appreciate the thought and that it is very sweet but that you don't allow those types of toys. Taking it away later and hoping your daughter won't notice is dishonest even if she doesn't care.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
(There is a great essay about this in Animal, Vegetable, Miracle, by Kingsolver, btw... about how one time she walked in on her daughter saying to a small friend: "My mom won't let me have barbies but when I grow up I'm going to buy ALL THE BARBIES I WANT and she can't stop me!" Highly recommend the book and the essay.)

Yes, I love Kingsolver's essay on Barbie. It gave me lots of food for thought about whether I am making Barbie desirable because she's not allowed in our house.

As a PP said, various people have given DD & DS characters they don't know. They make up their own stories to go along with them. It's just not my hill to die on. I should say the products aren't. The stories are different. When we read stories I find objectionable for one reason or another (almost all princess stories), I explain my thoughts and probe DD's brain to help her think critically.

As for your mother, I don't know how to handle it. I don't disappear toys. If I don't want them around (and there have been a few), I own up to that and tell my children. I think tossing toys when the kids aren't looking isn't an honest way to handle the situation, and it doesn't really tell your daughter what you believe since *she* doesn't know what happened to her original Snow White doll.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Is this the hill you want your relationship to die on?

I just ask because I don't really know the backstory with your mother vs. your values, etc. To me a bond with a grandparent is way more important than maintaining a no-character line, at least where Snow White - one of the least offensive of all the Disney canon in appearance, anyway - is concerned. But there might well be more going on.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Isn't it possible that your daughter did notice that her doll was gone & mentioned it to her grandma while they were out? Honestly, while I understand that you have a right as a parent to have rules about what you purchase for your kids I don't think that allowing your daughter to keep one doll she obviously enjoys will damage her permanently. Her image of herself as a grown woman will be influenced more by the way that she was raised and not the toys that she played with.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I don't know...while I am all for hands off approach and am really relaxed about character toys and that kind of crap now that my kids are school aged--when a parent tells grandma to NOT get a certain type of toy, and grandma does (twice) that to me is less about special memories and relationship and more about power struggle. Admittedly I am probably overly cautious because of the titanium boundaries I must maintain with my own mom.

Frankly, after the second offense I would have been direct. "Mom, I get that it's important to you that DD has a Snow White doll. But that goes against our toy rules and you know that. If you will not respect my rules, then I'm sorry, I will not allow you to take DD out shopping with you. She will not go out with you again until you promise me that you will not buy character toys for her while you are out. If you break your promise, you will no longer go out with her alone for the next year."

A snow white doll would not be my hill to die on--BUT flagrant manipulative, passive-aggressive power challenges from my mom get taken out with a nuclear sledgehammer. Also not my first choice, but my mom simply will not respect and does not seem to understand any other method.

The key is consistancy. At least with my mom. It's really annoying, makes me sad and angry and tired on the rare occasions where she's deciding to test the boundaries...but as you get more practiced, it gets easier.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
Isn't it possible that your daughter did notice that her doll was gone & mentioned it to her grandma while they were out? Honestly, while I understand that you have a right as a parent to have rules about what you purchase for your kids I don't think that allowing your daughter to keep one doll she obviously enjoys will damage her permanently. Her image of herself as a grown woman will be influenced more by the way that she was raised and not the toys that she played with.

This is what I was thinking also. It may be that she didn't remember it for a long time, but when she was shopping with grandma she did remember it and really wanted it. My ex has given my dd some really dumb toys that never have appealed to her, but every once in a while, usually when ex shows up, she will remember them and ask me if they are still there. She loves her dad (despite him rarely being around) and she can't stand the thought of getting rid of the toys even though she never uses them and it would be easy for me to disappear them. Because it is more an issue of love than anything else I don't get rid of them, it would be like throwing away her dad to my dd. If your dd truly likes this one toy and your mom has been good overall about this then I think you should trust that she is truly doing something with your dd's wants in mind.

It is hard for many people to understand that a parent might want a certain (non-violent) toy banned even if their child seems like they really want it, and kids can turn on the want really quick and heavy with grandparents. Maybe it will help if you clarify with your mom that the toys aren't allowed no matter how much your child wants them.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElorasMama* 
Hi, I'm once again giving myself a headache trying to decide what to do about excessive and (what I feel are) inappropriate gifts from grandparents for my 6-year-old DD. We have politely asked the relatives not to give DD any gifts that involve TV/movie characters (DD doesn't watch TV and only very occasionally sees movies.) Particularly for girls, I just don't feel that these characters are good role models.

So here's my question - isn't it MY right, as a parent, to decide what kinds of toys my DD is/isn't allowed to have? I try not to be overly restrictive in guidelines

Oh, and by the way, my daughter hasn't mentioned the first doll in ages and I highly, highly doubt that she mentioned the lost doll to Grandma. I really think Grandma asked her where her doll was, and then suggested replacing it.

I know you said you don't want to be overly restrictive, but IMO you are. One doll - and a replacement for it when "lost" - is not excessive, nor is it inappropriate. If you want to buy her everything from Magic Cabin, go ahead. Just like we can feed our kids all organic at home. But part of the specialness of the grandparent relationship is that they let us have some of the fun stuff instead of just the "best for us" stuff.

If you have her 90+% of the time, and feed/clothe/buy for her with your ideals in mind, then the less than 10% of the time that Gramma buys her a Snow White doll or an ice cream cone at 31 Flavors isn't going to ruin that.

And I'd assume your dd didn't mention the "lost" doll to you because she knows you are against it. Maybe she did mention it to gramma because she knows she is receptive to it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oubliette8* 
I have to say, if someone told me "no character dolls" and I went out shopping, I might not necessarily consider Snow White to be in that category. I would be thinking more along the lines of Barney, Dora, Sponge Bob etc. The Disney princesses I might see as characters, but she didn't buy all the Disne princesses, she bought a single Snow White. Snow White IS a classic. Beyond Disney, the story itself is several hundred years old, perhaps more. Would you be upset about a doll of say, Little Red Riding Hood? If the most trouble you've had is a single Snow White doll, I think you're doing ok, and your Mom is probably trying very hard to stick with your guidelines.

That was the first thing I thought too. It isn't Bratz; it isn't Barbie. Snow White is pretty benign, honestly.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Is this the hill you want your relationship to die on?
To me a bond with a grandparent is way more important than maintaining a no-character line, at least where Snow White is concerned.

Yep.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
Isn't it possible that your daughter did notice that her doll was gone & mentioned it to her grandma while they were out? Honestly, while I understand that you have a right as a parent to have rules about what you purchase for your kids I don't think that allowing your daughter to keep one doll she obviously enjoys will damage her permanently. Her image of herself as a grown woman will be influenced more by the way that she was raised and not the toys that she played with.

Agreed.

And I meant to quote the person who said she was ok with any dolls that don't look like hookers. Same here.

I think you, your dd AND your mom will all be happier if you ban the things that REALLY are offensive, and let go of stuff that is not.


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## TulsiLeaf (Nov 23, 2009)

it's a battle you will never, EVER win. *sigh*

It's my daughters birthday next week and I am trying to figure out a group present all her immediate family members can buy her. Try to tell her two grandparents you want a handmade wooden dollhouse that costs around 130 bucks!
"But there is a really nice plastic one in walmart for 50. Plastic is so much better than wood because you can bleach it. Wood just gets dirty"

Yeah, you will never win.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VisionaryMom* 
I don't disappear toys. If I don't want them around (and there have been a few), I own up to that and tell my children. I think tossing toys when the kids aren't looking isn't an honest way to handle the situation, and it doesn't really tell your daughter what you believe since *she* doesn't know what happened to her original Snow White doll.

I agree with this. Toys shouldn't be disappeared, especially as a sentimental gift from a loving grandparent. You should be honest and explain why she can't have it.

Quote:

But part of the specialness of the grandparent relationship is that they let us have some of the fun stuff instead of just the "best for us" stuff.

If you have her 90+% of the time, and feed/clothe/buy for her with your ideals in mind, then the less than 10% of the time that Gramma buys her a Snow White doll or an ice cream cone at 31 Flavors isn't going to ruin that.










I couldn't agree more.

When I was little I had an astronaut barbie and astronaut cabbage-patch kid (both presents from grandma, because mom wouldn't buy them and we were poor).


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Honest opinion? You are being way over-controlling. It's a Snow White doll, not a bomb. I think as your daughter gets older this attitude will really backfire on you. Have you ever heard the term "choose your battles"? Is this battle really that important in the long run?


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TulsiLeaf* 
it's a battle you will never, EVER win. *sigh*

It's my daughters birthday next week and I am trying to figure out a group present all her immediate family members can buy her. Try to tell her two grandparents you want a handmade wooden dollhouse that costs around 130 bucks!
"But there is a really nice plastic one in walmart for 50. Plastic is so much better than wood because you can bleach it. Wood just gets dirty"

Yeah, you will never win.

You tell people what gift to get? Part of the joy for me of birthday's is picking out something I think the birthday child will love. If I was told, "Hi can you come to little one's birthday and please contribute $20 to the gift that I have deemed appropriate" I probably wouldn't contribute anything and would consider not attending.


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

I think your mother is being passive aggressive. Next time she buys your kid something you don't approve of just ignore her. She's doing this to annoy you, not because she actually wants to buy your dd these toys. If you react you'll only feed the fire.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I think you are being over controlling.

A Snowwhite doll would mean the next book purchase I got would be The brother Grim's fairy tales with The Snow White story.

When the kids have no voice yes you have more control, but your child is six. It is her gift not yours.


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## VillageMom6 (Dec 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom* 
When the kids have no voice yes you have more control, but your child is six. It is her gift not yours.

What if the next gift was a Bratz doll or a bb gun or... an ant farm?









My eldest child is *15* but if someone gave him a subscription to Playboy magazine, I sure wouldn't be saying, "It's his gift, not mine.".


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VillageMom6* 
What if the next gift was a Bratz doll or a bb gun or... an ant farm?









My eldest child is *15* but if someone gave him a subscription to Playboy magazine, I sure wouldn't be saying, "It's his gift, not mine.".

BBgun is a true safety issue. I think it would be appropriate to say only with a gun lock stored else were. Then having a long talk with kids about gun safety and the reasoning.

Ant farm??the problem is?

Bratz dolls, I wouldn't say no but I would also later talk with my child why you don't like them.

My kids got dolls with bottles. At first I hated it! Then I got thinking how am I going to teach my child my opinions. What if they couldn't nurse? What if they expressed milk? What if relactating didn't work? Because I took time to talk to my children instead of being repulsed my kids learned a lot more. That is why I would get a Brother Grims book and why I would start talking about how movies (not just Disney ruins stories).


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scottishmommy* 
I think your mother is being passive aggressive. Next time she buys your kid something you don't approve of just ignore her. *She's doing this to annoy you, not because she actually wants to buy your dd these toys*. If you react you'll only feed the fire.

How do you know this? Have you met the OP's mother? That's a pretty presumptious statement to make.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Someone asked if this is the hill you want to die on.

I always wonder why people don't ask if this is the hill her MOTHER wants to die on?

SHE'S straining the relationship, and it's all on the OP to just suck it up and let her mother ignore her boundaries.

OP, maybe ask your mother that exactly. "Mom, isn't our relationship and your relationship with your granddaughter more important than winning the argument about whether she can have character toys or not?"

(In case it matters, we have a house full of character toys, so this isn't about my personal opinions on that subject).


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## VillageMom6 (Dec 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom* 
Ant farm??the problem is?

Hee... I just don't like ants (or any other bugs) and can't fathom bringing them inside my home. I'm usually trying to get them out!









Quote:

I always wonder why people don't ask if this is the hill her MOTHER wants to die on?

SHE'S straining the relationship, and it's all on the OP to just suck it up and let her mother ignore her boundaries.
_Very_ good point!









Earlier I came down fairly hard on the grandmother, but truth be told, I'd have no problem with a Snow White doll.

What I _do_ have a problem with is passive/aggressive behavior on the part of the grandmother. She has repeatedly been told that this is important to the OP.

Grandma doesn't have to agree. She is entitled to think that her daughter is overprotective... unreasonable... what have you. But she _knows_ the issue and ignores it anyway, because she wants to.

There are many ways for her to have fun bonding time with her grandchildren without ignoring the mama's boundaries.


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Honestly I'm not sure how I feel about this.

We don't do characters either & mostly if anyone gives DS something I just subtly give it away after a couple weeks (though he's only 1.5yrs so he doesn't notice). I do think it is quite inconsiderate of your mom to deliberately go against your wishes. I also wonder if this is "THE" rule or if there are many more "rules" you expect your mother to follow with DD (i.e. regarding toys/food/etc.) because if this is your only 'rule' I'd expect her to follow it but if you have lots of rules I can understand her not remembering every rule or wanting just a little leeway to 'spoil' her granddaughter.

What about something like... she can buy your DD gifts like this (although I'd continue to make it clear that you don't approve) but those gifts must stay at her house (and obviously must be safe, no BB gun as pp mentioned). I don't think you can control what people gift your child but I do think you have a say over what is in your house.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

One of my SILs allows her daughter to watch TV but she has all these rules about it. MIL was telling me that when the girl comes to stay with her, she has this list of rules like only this channel and that one, and only between the hours of X and Y, and only for Z amount of time max.

MIL did seem to find the restrictions a little micro-managey (she probably would have dealt with "no tv" better than the long list of "ok" and "not ok" shows, etc.), and she thought so enough to share it with me.

But I'll tell you what, MIL respected it. My niece only watched the "ok" shows, and even if MIL lightly complained to me about it she did not consider it her business to override her DIL's decisions.

It's fine if the OP's mother - or if any of you - find the toy restrictions, well, too restrictive or silly or whatever. But purposefully disregarding them is a HUGE breach of boundaries and trust. Many posters are coming down hard on OP for her choices, but those are choices that she has every right to make, and I can't see how it could possibly have real harm on her child even if it's not a choice I make myself. But why not come down on the OP's mother for MAKING it an issue?

I don't tell any of YOU guys how to raise your kids...


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scottishmommy* 
I think your mother is being passive aggressive. Next time she buys your kid something you don't approve of just ignore her. She's doing this to annoy you, not because she actually wants to buy your dd these toys. If you react you'll only feed the fire.

Also I'm not sure I agree with this, that MAY be the case but I know my mom & I clash on many things (particularly TV/characters) and while she wouldn't intentionally undermine me, she does get a lot of enjoyment from TV, classic movies, etc. and I could imagine her giving a gift like Snow White because of HER genuine love for it & wanting to share that with my child. I wouldn't assume that the OP's mom is being passive-aggressive (though maybe she is!)


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
Someone asked if this is the hill you want to die on.

I always wonder why people don't ask if this is the hill her MOTHER wants to die on?

SHE'S straining the relationship, and it's all on the OP to just suck it up and let her mother ignore her boundaries.

OP, maybe ask your mother that exactly. "Mom, isn't our relationship and your relationship with your granddaughter more important than winning the argument about whether she can have character toys or not?"

(In case it matters, we have a house full of character toys, so this isn't about my personal opinions on that subject).

Well, I said that and honestly - the most important reason is because it's the OP asking. If the grandmother were on asking I'd probably say the same thing you posted above.

However I also freely admit that I think trying to control gift giving is a relationship mistake, if it's not totally over-the-top insanity (as there have been examples here from time to time).

Usually when people give gifts (not always, for sure, but usually) - it's because they want to share something. It might be fond memories of a particular film, it might be because their friend told them their kids love that stuff - whatever. Sometimes it's a bit thoughtless, or because they went for convenience or the pink aisle or whatever.

Basically I think when we treat our family as the enemy, it's actually being _more_ consumeristic than not. If the sole badge of a good/acceptable gift is whether it meets our personal asthetic standards or is made in the exact manner in which we expect it to be manufactured, I think there is NO difference between that and someone who only accepts status symbols manufactured in sweatshops.

I do believe in thoughtful consumerism, but I don't believe the time to do the education is at the moment the gift is given to me or my child. I also believe that my child's strong, loving, caring relationships are the absolute antidote to mindless consumerism in the search of filling the void within.

Also, for me, attachment parenting means fostering an attachment to significant and important adults in the extended family and community and I just can't honestly see letting branded merchandise get in the way of that either way. A true safety issue or something really egregious, maybe it is worth it.


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## Tjej (Jan 22, 2009)

The reason the OP's behavior is what I talked about is because you can only control what you will do in a given situation, not someone else.

If character dolls are that important to the OP then sure, she can ban them. But I think that respecting her DD and mom in the process are important. The OP CAN control if the Snow White doll lives in the house, she CAN have it keep "disappearing", she CAN get all mad at her mom about it... but I personally believe that in the long run there are more important things to learn for the DD (and the OP herself) in this situation. I believe that the relationships are most important and being honest, but tactful, builds/maintains relationships.

Tjej


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VillageMom6* 
What if the next gift was a Bratz doll or a bb gun or... an ant farm?









My eldest child is *15* but if someone gave him a subscription to Playboy magazine, I sure wouldn't be saying, "It's his gift, not mine.".

If someone gave your 15 year old a subscription to Playboy that would be illegal. Giving a child something that breaks the law is far different that a toy.


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## odenata (Feb 1, 2005)

As some PPs have said, I see two different issues.
1) objectionable gifts
2) Grandma being passive/aggressive and not respecting your parenting decisions

As far the first one goes, your DD is going to be exposed to more and more things as she grows older - through gifts, through friends, etc. I think it would be better to talk with her about them than to "disappear" them. See what she thinks of the doll. To you, it represents plastic sweat-shop produced Disney crap, but she may see it as a pretty doll her Grandma got her. I would use this as a way to teach your values to your DD, because outside influences are only going to increase.

The second one is the much larger issue to me. One character doll would not be that big of a deal to me, but not knowing what other parenting decisions my mother might choose to ignore/disrespect (like car seat safety, discipline, etc.) would be.


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## VillageMom6 (Dec 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom* 
If someone gave your 15 year old a subscription to Playboy that would be illegal. Giving a child something that breaks the law is far different that a toy.

I think you know what I meant, but alright... Maxim magazine. Not illegal, but not going to be accepted into my household.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

You know, when I was a kid, my grandma wrote me and my siblings $25 checks for each birthday. My mom frequently told us--and her mom!--how much she hated that gift, how it was so impersonal, how her mom didn't care enough to pick out individualized gifts, etc. Grandma kept sending the checks. I don't know why. Maybe she was being passive aggressive. Maybe she truly found it hard or overwhelming to pick out individualized gifts for a whole passel of grandkids.

The checks never bothered me--I loved having $25 to spend. At least, they never bothered me until my mom's constant complaining "taught" me that my grandma didn't care enough to pick something out. I don't resent getting the checks at all, but I do regret that my relationship with my grandmother was damaged because I was constantly told that her gifts were "wrong."


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ElorasMama* 
Again, I wasn't going to make a fuss about it with DD there, which is stupid of me because I know this is my mother's way of controlling the situation. She is very manipulative.

This isn't about the toy. It's about your mom being manipulative. Is she toxic-manipulative, or just annoying-manipulative? Sounds like THAT's what you really need to sort out.


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## new2this (Feb 11, 2010)

When it comes to gifts no matter what unless its illegal, then I believe one should accept gracefully and do with it as they please afterwards. I put a lot of thought into the gifts, will ask for input as guidelines however bottom line is I buy what I want to give the person. The minute someone complains to me about it I stop buying for them. Its rude and I can't believe how many people sit there and request/demand things from those who are giving the gifts.

I know for a fact our DD will be getting crappy gifts from DH's family that are nothing but junk from dollar store or garage sale freebies garbage. However its who they are and not my place to say otherwise. And I don't want to put that image in my daughter's head to be ungrateful in anyway.

As far as it being Snow White, I really honestly believe its not Disney nor Barbie or anything like that, that puts the images in the child's head but its us adults who make things the way they are and cause them to become more of an issue in the end and end up doing exactly what one didn't want to happen.


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
Hm.

From my perspective, unless you are planning to homeschool and choose your child's friends, this is about to become a non-issue. Because she will meet other people with those toys / movies and she WILL incorporate them into her lexicon.

That said, I agree that your mom knew just what she was doing. And my opinion is that an involved, loving grandparent has the right to share a special memory with a grandchild.

I also think six is way more than old enough to choose toys. My child is three and chooses toys. I have veto power, but I don't veto dolls unless they look like hookers. We've never seen a princess movie but my daughter likes the shiny dresses. At bedtime I tell her stories about how she and Cinderella saved all the animals in the forest (if she wants a Cinderella story), or how she and Dora helped Diego when he got lost (she has never seen Diego... just got the idea he was cool from pre-school, I guess), or how she and Snow White were racecar drivers and won the Indy 500.

It is really not that big of a deal to me if she knows about those characters. It is the obsession with the overall narrative (damsel in distress) and the advertisement of character/brand based identities that is the problem. And that's just not going to happen with a grandparent buying a classic (sorry, it's nearly a half a century old, it's a classic) character doll, in my opinion.

Now, my mom really tries to respect my wishes about not buying them MIC junk that is just polluting China, supporting a mafia and slave labor, and really not educational at all.

However, she is a compulsive clearance-aisle shopper.

Which is why my daughter is now the proud owner of 14 pairs of Dora underwear.

"Nobody will see it so she won't be a walking advertisement."

Oh, mom, I love you.

Because you forgot that EVERYONE is going to see my three-year-old's underwear if it has Dora on it.









(There is a great essay about this in Animal, Vegetable, Miracle, by Kingsolver, btw... about how one time she walked in on her daughter saying to a small friend: "My mom won't let me have barbies but when I grow up I'm going to buy ALL THE BARBIES I WANT and she can't stop me!" Highly recommend the book and the essay.)

I agree and I love the way you worded this.


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## ErinYay (Aug 21, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Well, I said that and honestly - the most important reason is because it's the OP asking. If the grandmother were on asking I'd probably say the same thing you posted above.

However I also freely admit that I think trying to control gift giving is a relationship mistake, if it's not totally over-the-top insanity (as there have been examples here from time to time).

Usually when people give gifts (not always, for sure, but usually) - it's because they want to share something. It might be fond memories of a particular film, it might be because their friend told them their kids love that stuff - whatever. Sometimes it's a bit thoughtless, or because they went for convenience or the pink aisle or whatever.

*Basically I think when we treat our family as the enemy, it's actually being more consumeristic than not. If the sole badge of a good/acceptable gift is whether it meets our personal asthetic standards or is made in the exact manner in which we expect it to be manufactured, I think there is NO difference between that and someone who only accepts status symbols manufactured in sweatshops.*

I do believe in thoughtful consumerism, but I don't believe the time to do the education is at the moment the gift is given to me or my child. *I also believe that my child's strong, loving, caring relationships are the absolute antidote to mindless consumerism in the search of filling the void within.*

*Also, for me, attachment parenting means fostering an attachment to significant and important adults in the extended family and community and I just can't honestly see letting branded merchandise get in the way of that either way.* A true safety issue or something really egregious, maybe it is worth it.

BRILLIANTLY well said!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gcgirl* 
This isn't about the toy. It's about your mom being manipulative. Is she toxic-manipulative, or just annoying-manipulative? Sounds like THAT's what you really need to sort out.

You're getting all that from a grandmother wanting to give her granddaughter a present?

The doll doesn't mean "Disney/ consumerism/ women's issues/ sweatshops/ etc" to the little girl. It means "This is the doll my Grammy gave me." The doll doesn't mean "I'm gonna show that freakshow daughter/ I do what I want/ I don't respect anyone/etc" to the grandmother, it means "This is something I want to share with my granddaughter."

I am firmly of the mind that if you trust someone to spend time with your child, meaning you trust that your child won't be harmed in any way by them, then you should do them both the kindness of staying out of their relationship. You (general "you," here, not specifically the OP) need to learn to keep your own emotional issues with your parents/ in-laws far, far away from their here-and-now relationship with your child. Again, barring abusiveness or safety stuff, it's simply not your business.

Is your child better off with a grandparent who is active in your child's life, but who buys them toys you'd rather they not, or just mom-approved toys and NO grandparent? I can't imagine telling a family member that their gifts to my child aren't good enough- you're indirectly telling that person that THEY'RE not good enough, and that's a pretty rotten thing to hear.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErinYay* 
Is your child better off with a grandparent who is active in your child's life, but who buys them toys you'd rather they not, or just mom-approved toys and NO grandparent? I can't imagine telling a family member that their gifts to my child aren't good enough- you're indirectly telling that person that THEY'RE not good enough, and that's a pretty rotten thing to hear.

Nobody talked about cutting the grandmother out of anyone's life over this.

But *I* can't imagine telling a family member that their lifestyle isn't good enough - and DIRECTLY telling the person that they don't respect their decisions as a parent. And not only that, but making repeated efforts to sabatoge them.

That's a pretty rotten thing to do to your own daughter. Makes you wonder if the grandmother values the relationship much, or maybe she just values getting her own way?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

She is being manipulative. On the other hand, she probably feels micromanaged, and that's the way she responded. I think you both could stand to budge, and maybe a talk and some compromise on both sides would help.


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
How do you know this? Have you met the OP's mother? That's a pretty presumptious statement to make.

I don't _know that she's passive aggressive, I think[/I she is. A lot of people act passive aggressive when they think someone is being ridiculous or overly controlling. I think the best thing to do is to ignore it. The op has already made it very clear that she doesn't want these sorts of toys in her house and the grandmother is clearly ignoring her. How is that not passive aggressive?_


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VillageMom6* 
What if the next gift was a Bratz doll or a bb gun or... an ant farm?









My eldest child is *15* but if someone gave him a subscription to Playboy magazine, I sure wouldn't be saying, "It's his gift, not mine.".

You're comparing pornography, linked with human trafficking and drug use and human slavery, in addition to sex abuse, to an outdated fairy tale?

Not only that, it's one doll, not the entire Disney Princess DVD box set. It's the equivalent of a door poster of Shakira.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
You're comparing pornography, linked with human trafficking and drug use and human slavery, in addition to sex abuse, to an outdated fairy tale?

Not only that, it's one doll, not the entire Disney Princess DVD box set. It's the equivalent of a door poster of Shakira.

No, she isn't. She's using a more extreme example to show that as parents, we certainly have a right to determine what our children can have. And an extreme example to show that other people do not have an exclusive right to introduce things in our home that we do not want.

Obviously all of our boundaries fall in different places, so an extreme example is helpful because we know we all agree on it. Thus focusing on the concept and not quibbling over the side issues of whether the OP should or should not ban characters in her home as she has chosen to do.

Would YOU use your logic as an excuse to blatantly disregard another parent's boundaries? If your best friend banned characters, would YOU buy her daughter a character doll and say "Seriously? This is one doll, not the entire Disney Princess DVD box set. It's the equivalent of a door poster of Shakira."


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## mrspineau (Jan 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
Someone asked if this is the hill you want to die on.

I always wonder why people don't ask if this is the hill her MOTHER wants to die on?


Because, unfortunately we cannot control another's actions. We can, however, choose to control our own reactions to other's actions. so, we have to choose for ourselves, what "hills we want to die on". Even though someone else may be in the wrong.


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## VillageMom6 (Dec 2, 2008)

Thank you, *Laohaire*. You explained it much better than I could have!









When it comes to the OP's mother, I think that many of us are arguing apples versus oranges. It's been my experience that there are two types of challenging mothers/MILs...

One type means well but sometimes misses the mark. Things were done differently in her day. She doesn't set out deliberately to cross our boundaries, she's just going by what she feels is appropriate. Happily, it is possible to work things out with this type of mother, whether through discussions or compromise. I think most posters here are blessd with this type of mother. Lucky you!

But there's another type that is much more difficult. She not only disagrees with our choices, she feels no need to respect them. She makes decisions based on what _she_ wants, regardless of who that hurts. It is impossible to dialogue or compromise with this type. Many of them have actual personality disorders, including one that I know very well.

I have no idea which type of mother the OP has. My responses were based on the second type, based on hearing that she has repeatedly disrespected the same boundary. Many responses seem to think of her as the first type, which calls for a totally different sort of reaction on the OP's part.

Best wishes to the OP!


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
You know, when I was a kid, my grandma wrote me and my siblings $25 checks for each birthday. My mom frequently told us--and her mom!--how much she hated that gift, how it was so impersonal, how her mom didn't care enough to pick out individualized gifts, etc. Grandma kept sending the checks. I don't know why. Maybe she was being passive aggressive. Maybe she truly found it hard or overwhelming to pick out individualized gifts for a whole passel of grandkids.

The checks never bothered me--I loved having $25 to spend. At least, they never bothered me until my mom's constant complaining "taught" me that my grandma didn't care enough to pick something out. I don't resent getting the checks at all, but I do regret that my relationship with my grandmother was damaged because I was constantly told that her gifts were "wrong."

I hope everyone reads this and takes it to heart. As parents, I think we need to be very careful about what message we are presenting about our child's loved one to them.

From another perspective: I have a sil who "hates" everything. If you get her or her husband, or the children a gift, 9 times out of 10 it's "disappeared" because it wasn't "right".

It can be very frustrating. We all try very hard to find things we think they will like, heck, it's my brother, but you never know what they'll keep. I realize that gift giving is about the intention but it can be tough to give birthday gifts to kids and know that they will be "ousted" by mom because she doesn't like them. And we're not talking about toy ideals here, it's very, very random. None of us would ever buy something for their kids that was not approved by their parents.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VillageMom6* 
When it comes to the OP's mother, I think that many of us are arguing apples versus oranges. It's been my experience that there are two types of challenging mothers/MILs...

One type means well but sometimes misses the mark. Things were done differently in her day. She doesn't set out deliberately to cross our boundaries, she's just going by what she feels is appropriate. Happily, it is possible to work things out with this type of mother, whether through discussions or compromise. I think most posters here are blessd with this type of mother. Lucky you!

But there's another type that is much more difficult. She not only disagrees with our choices, she feels no need to respect them. She makes decisions based on what _she_ wants, regardless of who that hurts. It is impossible to dialogue or compromise with this type. Many of them have actual personality disorders, including one that I know very well.

I have no idea which type of mother the OP has. My responses were based on the second type, based on hearing that she has repeatedly disrespected the same boundary. Many responses seem to think of her as the first type, which calls for a totally different sort of reaction on the OP's part.

Best wishes to the OP!

I think this sums it up well. We're making assumptions based on our own experiences as to what this dynamic is.

Indeed if it is the former dynamic, there is room for the OP to chill out. Though I don't think it's our business to tell the OP she's wrong to not want characters. She can still manage the issue, talk with the MIL about it, whatever. I do think it's unhelpful to push the responsibility of the issue onto the OP, but it is helpful to say "if your mother means well, and I think she does, then it's better to just relax and let it be." Probably anecdotes about how certain things did not lead to disaster would be supportive to the OP: "I completely banned toy guns from the house but my mother/MIL/whatever bought one. DS loves it but honestly he is still sweet, not violent, cares about people and animals, etc. I don't think it harmed him at all." Or "My MIL bought the dreaded noisy plastic toys but DD is still extremely imaginative." That would be really reassuring to the OP.

If it's the latter dynamic, I totally disagree with the advice to just roll over and let the grandmother rule the house in the name of preserving the relationship. That burden is on the grandmother to stop being controlling, toxic, manipulative, passive-aggressive, whatever. The OP will not be better off for allowing toxic behavior to take over her life, even if it does make grandma happy to have "won."


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Honest opinion? You are being way over-controlling. It's a Snow White doll, not a bomb. I think as your daughter gets older this attitude will really backfire on you. Have you ever heard the term "choose your battles"? Is this battle really that important in the long run?











I agree with this, but if the battle is important for the OP, that's for her to decide.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
You tell people what gift to get? Part of the joy for me of birthday's is picking out something I think the birthday child will love. If I was told, "Hi can you come to little one's birthday and please contribute $20 to the gift that I have deemed appropriate" I probably wouldn't contribute anything and would consider not attending.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *VillageMom6* 
What if the next gift was a Bratz doll or a bb gun or... an ant farm?









My eldest child is *15* but if someone gave him a subscription to Playboy magazine, I sure wouldn't be saying, "It's his gift, not mine.".

Bring them to the Salvation Army - or another place that takes donations. And c'mon about PB, lol. Do you *really* think that someone would give that as a gift (maybe you do, I dunno)? And I think comparing PB to Snow White is like comparing apples to, oh, cars...especially in terms of how one can handle gifts after one receives them.

I would never complain about a gift, nor would I tell someone what they could or could not buy my child (unless they asked outright). Let them have at it, and I will deal with the gifts after the fact. Anything otherwise is, to me, rude.


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## sapientia (Apr 22, 2007)

My children don't get gifts from anyone but me and dh-why? Because my family, (as well as my dh's family,) never thinks to buy something for them. Ever. I know this is coming from my own issues with that, but durn, I'd be happy with a dollar store coloring book from one of the grandparents for my children.
And for the record, I never, ever, tried to 'tell' them what to get my kids, it's just that they never cared enough to buy anything at all. My mom gives the occasional christmas gift, usually a set of clothes, but nothing 'just cause she was thinking of the kids'.








I don't like disney at all, for a myriad of reasons, but if someone bought almost any toy at all for them I'd be thankful. It beats hearing your kids ask why grandma doesn't ever bring them a gift, when their friends get stuff all the time.


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VillageMom6* 
Thank you, *Laohaire*. You explained it much better than I could have!









When it comes to the OP's mother, I think that many of us are arguing apples versus oranges. It's been my experience that there are two types of challenging mothers/MILs...

One type means well but sometimes misses the mark. Things were done differently in her day. She doesn't set out deliberately to cross our boundaries, she's just going by what she feels is appropriate. Happily, it is possible to work things out with this type of mother, whether through discussions or compromise. I think most posters here are blessd with this type of mother. Lucky you!

But there's another type that is much more difficult. She not only disagrees with our choices, she feels no need to respect them. She makes decisions based on what _she_ wants, regardless of who that hurts. It is impossible to dialogue or compromise with this type. Many of them have actual personality disorders, including one that I know very well.

I have no idea which type of mother the OP has. My responses were based on the second type, based on hearing that she has repeatedly disrespected the same boundary. Many responses seem to think of her as the first type, which calls for a totally different sort of reaction on the OP's part.

Best wishes to the OP!

Great points!!!!


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapientia* 
My children don't get gifts from anyone but me and dh-why? Because my family, (as well as my dh's family,) never thinks to buy something for them. Ever. I know this is coming from my own issues with that, but durn, I'd be happy with a dollar store coloring book from one of the grandparents for my children.
And for the record, I never, ever, tried to 'tell' them what to get my kids, it's just that they never cared enough to buy anything at all. My mom gives the occasional christmas gift, usually a set of clothes, but nothing 'just cause she was thinking of the kids'.








I don't like disney at all, for a myriad of reasons, but if someone bought almost any toy at all for them I'd be thankful. It beats hearing your kids ask why grandma doesn't ever bring them a gift, when their friends get stuff all the time.

((((((HUGS))))))

My FIL (and his gf) are like this. They ignore literally everything - FIL even forgot his own son's birthday.







They did get holiday gifts for the kids, though. For my six year old? A glow worm. We smiled, said thank you, and gave them hugs and kisses. It was hard, but we did it.

Gifts, gifts, gifts. Grrrrrrr.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErinYay* 

You're getting all that from a grandmother wanting to give her granddaughter a present?


No. I'm getting this from the OP, who specifically stated that her mom is NORMALLY manipulative, and if that's the case, then she needs to decide how damaging that is BEFORE she handles the presents issue.


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## childsplay (Sep 4, 2007)

Personally, and I'm saying this in the most gentle way possible, I'd just let it go.

The way I look at it is I try not to criticize the gifts my kid's Grandparents (and Great-Grandparents) buy for them.

My Grandmother, every year, would faithfully buy Barbies, Doras, Tranformers, Disneyish toys/books for my kid's birthdays and Christmases.

I never said a negative thing about any of it, not to the kid's, or even DH (although I often rolled my eyes at yet another Barbie) .

But I knew she loved buying for them, she was old and it made her happy.

She passed away last month and I'm so glad I never wasted a single moment griping to her about the gifts she bought for my kids, or to the kids about the gifts she bought.

Same with the Christmas my Dad found a massive Barbie camper for DD - complete with a swimming pool and disco lights







at someone's curb on garbage day.
He took it home and spent days cleaning it, oiling all the moving parts, geez, my Mom even made real bedding for Barbie's bed. And wouldn't you know it, DH's elderly aunt sent a Bratz doll in the mail for DD - complete with hooker boots and a miniskirt.
Even though DH and I completely disapproved of the whole shebang - he claimed that the Bratz doll was turning tricks in the camper while DD was sleeping







we never said anything negative to my folks, or his aunt.

I just think if it's a gift given with love for the receiver then really, there's not a whole lot wrong with it.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oubliette8* 
I have to say, if someone told me "no character dolls" and I went out shopping, I might not necessarily consider Snow White to be in that category. I would be thinking more along the lines of Barney, Dora, Sponge Bob etc. The Disney princesses I might see as characters, but she didn't buy all the Disne princesses, she bought a single Snow White. Snow White IS a classic. Beyond Disney, the story itself is several hundred years old, perhaps more. Would you be upset about a doll of say, Little Red Riding Hood? If your daughter is interested in the doll, you could talk about the different versions of the story across different countries and time spans (they will probably need a bit of editing for a 5 year old) If the most trouble you've had is a single Snow White doll, I think you're doing ok, and your Mom is probably trying very hard to stick with your guidelines.


Have to agree. When my girls were around that age, Snow White was a fairly tale character, not a Disney character. That doll would not have bothered me at all.

And I despise Disney.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *childsplay* 
Same with the Christmas my Dad found a massive Barbie camper for DD - complete with a swimming pool and disco lights







at someone's curb on garbage day.
He took it home and spent days cleaning it, oiling all the moving parts, geez, my Mom even made real bedding for Barbie's bed. And wouldn't you know it, DH's elderly aunt sent a Bratz doll in the mail for DD - complete with hooker boots and a miniskirt.
Even though DH and I completely disapproved of the whole shebang - he claimed that the Bratz doll was turning tricks in the camper while DD was sleeping







we never said anything negative to my folks, or his aunt.

I just think if it's a gift given with love for the receiver then really, there's not a whole lot wrong with it.

Aw, that's really a lovely story (even if she does have hooker boots!). Your dad and mom really meant well, in their hearts, and that is a valuable gift. *If the giver means well*, then the gift should be accepted as such. And never degrade the gift, no matter how you feel about it, in front of your kids. It just puts them in an awful spot - either guilty for playing with something they know you disapprove of, you think is beneath them.... or not playing with something they want to play with, in order to please you. Now, if the giver is a passive-aggressive manipulative PITA, then obviously different measures need to be taken.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapientia* 
My children don't get gifts from anyone but me and dh-why? Because my family, (as well as my dh's family,) never thinks to buy something for them. Ever. I know this is coming from my own issues with that, but durn, I'd be happy with a dollar store coloring book from one of the grandparents for my children.
And for the record, I never, ever, tried to 'tell' them what to get my kids, it's just that they never cared enough to buy anything at all. My mom gives the occasional christmas gift, usually a set of clothes, but nothing 'just cause she was thinking of the kids'.








I don't like disney at all, for a myriad of reasons, but if someone bought almost any toy at all for them I'd be thankful. It beats hearing your kids ask why grandma doesn't ever bring them a gift, when their friends get stuff all the time.









My in-laws are that way. For Christmas, they'll get the kids breakable Christmas ornaments and that's it. I get the sentimentality of it but she was seriously surprised and pissed last Christmas when two of the four ornaments were broken with in 20 minutes (one was my sons, he was almost 3, and the other was my nephews, he was 16 months old!) She's never gotten any of my kids birthday presents, gave dd a 10 cent book about Saints for her baptism (which I thought was nice, but again she got pissed when it got ripped in half by a 7 month old), ignored my sons baptisms entirely (she's a strict Catholic.)

OP, how do you know your daughter didn't want that doll? To her, it's just a doll with a pretty dress and black hair. You said your mom said she was "looking at it" in the store. Maybe "looking at it" was really begging for it or looking at it longingly because she wanted it but knew you'd never buy it for her. Your daughter is six. Mine is 5.5 and I no longer say flat out no to things. I will steer her away from Bratz dolls (to the Barbies







) but for the most part I just explain why I don't like something and let her make up her own mind. It's worked well and my daughter knows why I say no to the easy bake oven.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

veering off topic for a bit but why not the easy bake oven?
I only ask because I'm slightly fascinated by it and would've wanted one as a child. Is it a safety risk?


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
No, she isn't. She's using a more extreme example to show that as parents, we certainly have a right to determine what our children can have. And an extreme example to show that other people do not have an exclusive right to introduce things in our home that we do not want.

Obviously all of our boundaries fall in different places, so an extreme example is helpful because we know we all agree on it. Thus focusing on the concept and not quibbling over the side issues of whether the OP should or should not ban characters in her home as she has chosen to do.

Would YOU use your logic as an excuse to blatantly disregard another parent's boundaries? If your best friend banned characters, would YOU buy her daughter a character doll and say "Seriously? This is one doll, not the entire Disney Princess DVD box set. It's the equivalent of a door poster of Shakira."

No, I don't think this is a relative issue. There are forms of entertainment that are inseparable from the pain they cause others or imaginary hurting of others (violent toys, pornography) or which are addictive (lottery tickets, drugs... okay, I'm not sure who's giving drugs to kids but that is not my point). I can see saying, "Look, this thing is harmful. My child can't have it."

However, a fairy tale doll, marketed by Disney or not, is really, really hard to fit into that box. I don't see it as a slippery slope. All characters in stories live in unjust worlds. There is no perfect narrative, and if it is, I can assure you it lives at the bottom of a landfill in obscurity because it's boring.

And I'm not reading anything into the mom or OP here. Frankly, I don't think that what kind of person she is to the mom should interfere with her relationship with the granddaughter, unless it gets massively screwed up in its own right. I'm not saying her mom is normal or great or bad or anything. I have no idea. I just don't think it bears on her relationship with her granddaughter.

My father is an addict. He sometimes gave us the screwiest gifts, and sometimes they were awesome. He was awful to my mom and totally disrespectful. She never once got in the way of his attempts at love, though.

Family is family, and that is about accepting what you got. I think that nobody here should be judging either the OP or her mom, because all we know is that MIL got the child a toy, the OP took it away, and the mom replaced it. And I do think the mom is right if she believes that she has a right to her OWN relationship with the grandchild, apart from any issues she has or does not have with her daughter.

(As for what I would do, I don't think that philosophical gift-giving examples enter my head when buying gifts. I don't have friends that think it's appropriate to ask for certain gifts, honestly such controlling people would never want to be around me, and if it were a relative, I would buy whatever they wanted... again within the realm of safety and legality for all involved, of course.)


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elmh23* 







My in-laws are that way. For Christmas, they'll get the kids breakable Christmas ornaments and that's it. I get the sentimentality of it but she was seriously surprised and pissed last Christmas when two of the four ornaments were broken with in 20 minutes (one was my sons, he was almost 3, and the other was my nephews, he was 16 months old!)

Note to self: when sending keepsakes for parents to keep for children as memories of Christmases gone by, include explicit instructions for parents in the card itself.

My mom kept ornaments from a great aunt for us each year. We got to hang them on the tree when we were older, and take them with us when married. I think of her every time and I'm amazed as well that you gave them to your babies.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
No, I don't think this is a relative issue. There are forms of entertainment that are inseparable from the pain they cause others or imaginary hurting of others (violent toys, pornography) or which are addictive (lottery tickets, drugs... okay, I'm not sure who's giving drugs to kids but that is not my point). I can see saying, "Look, this thing is harmful. My child can't have it."

However, a fairy tale doll, marketed by Disney or not, is really, really hard to fit into that box. I don't see it as a slippery slope. All characters in stories live in unjust worlds. There is no perfect narrative, and if it is, I can assure you it lives at the bottom of a landfill in obscurity because it's boring.

I think this is just all subjective. Yes, you disagree with the OP that characters are harmful. That's fine, you have a right to your opinion. The OP has a different opinon. She believes that characters _are_ harmful.

So my attempt was to steer away from the subjective part and on to the core issue. We could all go round and round about whether it is ok to let little Johnny eat gummy worms or something loaded with sugar and dyes. Some people see them as absolutely harmless. Others see them as toxic and with lasting effects. We're not going to agree, so the question is, is it ok for little Johnny's grandmother to buy him gummy worms if his mother believes they are toxic for him?

And yes, whether you actually agree with it or not, there IS a case to be made for gummy worms - and characters - as being toxic for children. I don't have enough hubris to be able to proclaim on behalf of the whole world what the answer really is and shut the discussion down for those who disagree with me.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
And I'm not reading anything into the mom or OP here. Frankly, I don't think that what kind of person she is to the mom should interfere with her relationship with the granddaughter, unless it gets massively screwed up in its own right. I'm not saying her mom is normal or great or bad or anything. I have no idea. I just don't think it bears on her relationship with her granddaughter.

Of course it does. If you have a toxic, controlling, manipulative grandmother, she is going to be toxic, controlling and manipulative to her granddaughter as well as her daughter. Is the OP's mother toxic? I don't know. Certainly enough people saw enough red flags to consider it a possibility.

Open question to everyone: does ANYONE know of a TOXIC mother who is not toxic to their grandkids? Not just a mother with some foibles (like my own) but a TOXIC mother who approaches the whole world on her own agenda and is willing to use other people, including her own child(ren) to acheive it?

It's not like the grandmother is suddenly a new person when a granddaughter is introduced. She is who she is, and she will use the same methods of interacting with people as she has used in the past. That goes for regular people, toxic people, and saints as well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
Family is family, and that is about accepting what you got.

I know some people feel that no matter how toxic your family is, you should stick with them. I don't agree, though. I think toxicity is not something to be lived with, but to be healed. And unfortunately, by their very nature, toxic people will not be healed.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
I think that nobody here should be judging either the OP or her mom, because all we know is that MIL got the child a toy, the OP took it away, and the mom replaced it. And I do think the mom is right if she believes that she has a right to her OWN relationship with the grandchild, apart from any issues she has or does not have with her daughter.

When did buying a toy expressly forbidden by the mother become the crux of her relationship with her granddaughter? If buying a toy to undermine the mother is the basis of the relationship, how valuable is it?

Of course, I allow that the grandmother may have bought it in totally good faith - maybe misunderstood or something. But that's not what you're saying. You're saying that the grandmother's right to do whatever she wants, even if that involves manipulation, undermining and passive-aggression, is strictly between her and the (minor) child, and the mother has no right to interfere, even to protect her own child. Because family is family.


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## VillageMom6 (Dec 2, 2008)

Quote:

And I do think the mom is right if she believes that she has a right to her OWN relationship with the grandchild, apart from any issues she has or does not have with her daughter.
Oh, I respectfully but most emphatically disagree.

(And bless you, *Laohaire*, for getting it.







)

If someone has a strained relationship with me because of their abusive/manipulative actions, there is no way I'm giving them unfettered access to my child.

Family means everything to me. I had wonderful relationships with my grandparents and I cherish the strong bonds between my children and their (mentally) healthy grandparents. I do all that I can to facilitate those relationships.

But if there is a lifetime of treating me poorly that is only reigned in because I'm now an adult and don't have to take it, then that person is lucky to have any sort of contact with my children. I'm going to monitor it like a hawk and nip issues in the bud.

P.S. Gummy worms are yummy.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VillageMom6* 
If someone has a strained relationship with me because of their abusive/manipulative actions, there is no way I'm giving them unfettered access to my child.

I guess I just cannot see how anyone would think that buying their grandaughter a Snow White doll (that the child did like according to the OP) is abusive.


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## VillageMom6 (Dec 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
I guess I just cannot see how anyone would think that buying their grandaughter a Snow White doll (that the child did like according to the OP) is abusive.

I don't think so, either. I'm refering to many previous years of psychological abuse and manipulative actions.

*If* the OP's mother has been _repeatedly_ asked not to get character items and _repeatedly_ does so, then to me, that can be seen as being manipulative. Especially the part where the grandmother does this in front of the OP and child, thus causing the OP either to "make a scene" or to ignore the boundary violation.

Truly... and I mean this most sincerely... I am so glad that the majority of posters can't even imagine what a genuinely manipulative mother is like.


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## ErinYay (Aug 21, 2008)

If said grandparent is as toxic as many are assuming, then said grandparent shouldn't be spending alone time with said grandchild.

If one really feels like someone is a negative influence and will damage a child, why on earth are they going off places by themselves? If indeed said grandparents *can* be trusted alone with your kid, then they can be trusted to have their own relationship with their grandchild.

You can't have it both ways- you can't allow someone to gallivant across town with your kid while dictating their relationship. If someone is so manipulative and toxic that every gesture they make toward your child is actually an attack on you and your parenting, that person ought not to have unsupervised access to your child.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grumpybear* 
veering off topic for a bit but why not the easy bake oven?
I only ask because I'm slightly fascinated by it and would've wanted one as a child. Is it a safety risk?

Sounds funny doesn't it. It started off because the mixes for the oven are fairly expensive for what you get and I don't want to waist my money on that (she'd be free to use her own money, but she doesn't have any







) Now, it's because her little brother seems to be allergic/intolerant to gluten and dairy and none of the mixes are gf or df. I would feel really mean allowing dd to have something and telling ds no (and we're limiting his sugar intake so I don't want to make a gf, df treat for him.)


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
Note to self: when sending keepsakes for parents to keep for children as memories of Christmases gone by, include explicit instructions for parents in the card itself.

My mom kept ornaments from a great aunt for us each year. We got to hang them on the tree when we were older, and take them with us when married. I think of her every time and I'm amazed as well that you gave them to your babies.

I would have done that, trust me! But we get together for Christmas with them every year and she actually just handed the ornaments to the boys when my SIL and I were both looking away. There is NO WAY we would have handed them over!


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## crunchy_mommy (Mar 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ErinYay* 
If said grandparent is as toxic as many are assuming, then said grandparent shouldn't be spending alone time with said grandchild.

If one really feels like someone is a negative influence and will damage a child, why on earth are they going off places by themselves? If indeed said grandparents *can* be trusted alone with your kid, then they can be trusted to have their own relationship with their grandchild.

You can't have it both ways- you can't allow someone to gallivant across town with your kid while dictating their relationship. If someone is so manipulative and toxic that every gesture they make toward your child is actually an attack on you and your parenting, that person ought not to have unsupervised access to your child.

But there is a lot of gray area here!!

Some grandparents are practically *perfect* and you can easily trust them to take care of your child both physically & mentally/emotionally/spiritually... other grandparents may be great at keeping a child physically safe but perhaps overstep some emotional boundaries or vice versa... And some cannot be trusted in any regard. I'm not really sure how to clearly explain what I mean (haven't slept in 3 days lol) but what I'm trying to say is that things aren't always as black & white as what you've stated. I don't think buying a Snow White doll is a reason to not allow grandma & daughter to go out together (unless this is just part of a larger problem), but I do think the OP's mom needs to respect her daughter's wishes. This is no different than if my mom fed my vegan son a cupcake made with dairy/eggs -- sure, there are worse offenses, but that clearly oversteps a boundary I have set that I believe is in my DS's best interest.


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## KirstenMary (Jun 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *childsplay* 
Personally, and I'm saying this in the most gentle way possible, I'd just let it go.

The way I look at it is I try not to criticize the gifts my kid's Grandparents (and Great-Grandparents) buy for them.

My Grandmother, every year, would faithfully buy Barbies, Doras, Tranformers, Disneyish toys/books for my kid's birthdays and Christmases.

I never said a negative thing about any of it, not to the kid's, or even DH (although I often rolled my eyes at yet another Barbie) .

But I knew she loved buying for them, she was old and it made her happy.

She passed away last month and I'm so glad I never wasted a single moment griping to her about the gifts she bought for my kids, or to the kids about the gifts she bought.

Same with the Christmas my Dad found a massive Barbie camper for DD - complete with a swimming pool and disco lights







at someone's curb on garbage day.
He took it home and spent days cleaning it, oiling all the moving parts, geez, my Mom even made real bedding for Barbie's bed. And wouldn't you know it, DH's elderly aunt sent a Bratz doll in the mail for DD - complete with hooker boots and a miniskirt.
Even though DH and I completely disapproved of the whole shebang - he claimed that the Bratz doll was turning tricks in the camper while DD was sleeping







we never said anything negative to my folks, or his aunt.

I just think if it's a gift given with love for the receiver then really, there's not a whole lot wrong with it.

Beautiful story!!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TCMoulton* 
I guess I just cannot see how anyone would think that buying their grandaughter a Snow White doll (that the child did like according to the OP) is abusive.

Word.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elmh23* 
I would have done that, trust me! But we get together for Christmas with them every year and she actually just handed the ornaments to the boys *when my SIL and I were both looking away*. There is NO WAY we would have handed them over!

Had you seen the ornaments before the boys had them? If you hadn't, cynical me is wondering if they were already broken.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Had you seen the ornaments before the boys had them? If you hadn't, cynical me is wondering if they were already broken.

We heard them break.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
Open question to everyone: does ANYONE know of a TOXIC mother who is not toxic to their grandkids? Not just a mother with some foibles (like my own) but a TOXIC mother who approaches the whole world on her own agenda and is willing to use other people, including her own child(ren) to acheive it?

Yes and no.

My mother definitely could qualify. As my powerhouse quick example, I was abused and raped as a child by a relative. This all came out in my early 20s and is well known. My mother inherited one of the chairs over which I was raped along with the matching ottoman. When she put them in her home I explained that I would not go into her home while they were there and I explained why even more bluntly than I just put it here.

It took 2 years of only meeting her on the porch or in public spaces before she got rid of the chair...and she still. has. the. ottoman. These are not priceless antiques either, nor is she without financial resources.

She is a pretty decent grandmother to my son, so far. I'm careful about certain things but I have honestly been bowled over by how much further she can get around her own limitations out of love for him than she can get with me or my sister. I can't say I am expecting this will last forever as my son gets older and less adoring but I have been glad I maintained the relationship - it's a plus - and I didn't think I would be saying that 5 years into it.

But I have to say...this is why I don't sweat the small stuff. For me anything important is completely non-negotiable (hitting, belittling, teasing). If there were dietary issues those would come a close second. But I try to focus my communication on that. If there were 4000 rules I'm pretty sure we'd just be in constant argument and then when it counted I'm not sure it would have the same impact.


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## Callimom (Sep 14, 2004)

You cannot, nor should you, control all aspects of the way your child interacts with the world.

The doll only has the power you give it - both in terms of what your daughter perceives it as and what you see it symbolize within the context of your relationship with your mother.

So you can use it as a great starting point to talk to your daughter about everything from fairy stories around the world to sweatshops to accepting a gift graciously and with an open heart even if you aren't sure that was the way it was intended to be given.

I have a MIL who didn't get some of my parenting parameters with my oldest (and I freely admit they were uptight first time parent things







). And our relationship was ripe for a power struggle. But somewhere along the line I finally woke up to the fact that she adored my kid(s) and that was expotentially more important in their lives and in mine than if she let them watch a disney movie.

She still chooses some stuff I wouldn't - lol she feeds my kids snicker sandwiches - peanut butter, slices of a snickers chocolate bar on buttered white bread and all lightly toasted. I kid you not. Omg it's gross and hilarious at the same time. But they LOVE that they feel so special that she will do that for them and I love that when they are parents themselves they will tell stories about the wacky food she gave them and remember how she made them feel so loved.

You can absolutely choose what toys you want for your daughter. But (and I say this gently) are you going to prioritize the right "things" over a relationship. Is that the message you want to teach your daughter? If it isn't going to matter a year from now that your daughter once owned a Snow White doll (and it sounds like the first doll wasn't an issue for *her*), is it worth putting your energy there? Fifteen years from now when you have to explain this situation to your kid, what is the take away that you want her to have from it. I'd start there.


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## EarthMamaToBe (Feb 19, 2008)

I am the Mom. If I say my child can't have something and my mother buys it not once but TWICE she is showing total disrespect for me as a parent.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
I think this is just all subjective. Yes, you disagree with the OP that characters are harmful. That's fine, you have a right to your opinion. The OP has a different opinon. She believes that characters _are_ harmful.

But everything can be harmful in one way or another. Legos made with petroleum products. Wooden toys harming the forest. Even Montessori toys are considered by some to be too strict, Waldorf to be implicitly racist, mainstream to be sexist... there is a case to be made for some amount of harm, but there really is not a case to be made for the fact that one dolly is going to physically or psychologically scar a child for life. Or the maker. Really, I would like to see that case made. I think it's based on a really weak argument that relies on guilt by association.

Quote:

Of course it does. If you have a toxic, controlling, manipulative grandmother, she is going to be toxic, controlling and manipulative to her granddaughter as well as her daughter. Is the OP's mother toxic? I don't know. Certainly enough people saw enough red flags to consider it a possibility.
Every time someone on MDC complains about their DH, and I have seen this, they get oodles of recommendations for books about abuse, and the same for moms. I once posted about my mom. SHe's passive-aggressive. She was irritating me and I was pregnant and hormonal. I got a huge response saying I should cut all ties with her. Wow! I was like... she's imperfect, she's human, but she's not evil or anything. I love my mom.

Kind of like every baby that doesn't STTN gets the suggestion of being tested for a dairy or wheat allergy.

Do these things exist? Yes! Are they important? Yes! However, everyone is seeing their own issues in this and there is precious, precious little information. All this is filtered through the OP, and however nice she may be, she's not perfect. Nobody is.

Quote:

Open question to everyone: does ANYONE know of a TOXIC mother who is not toxic to their grandkids? Not just a mother with some foibles (like my own) but a TOXIC mother who approaches the whole world on her own agenda and is willing to use other people, including her own child(ren) to acheive it?
But honestly... why would you assume that this is the case?

Quote:

It's not like the grandmother is suddenly a new person when a granddaughter is introduced. She is who she is, and she will use the same methods of interacting with people as she has used in the past. That goes for regular people, toxic people, and saints as well.
Actually, from a distance, she might have a much more normal relationship with the child. I find that toxic people often choose particular victims and then are normal to others.

Quote:

I know some people feel that no matter how toxic your family is, you should stick with them. I don't agree, though. I think toxicity is not something to be lived with, but to be healed. And unfortunately, by their very nature, toxic people will not be healed.
Here is where we disagree massively. I do not think that there is one person on this planet beyond redemption, beyond hope. Not one single person. (Can we change them? No. But they can change, and we can forgive.)

Quote:

When did buying a toy expressly forbidden by the mother become the crux of her relationship with her granddaughter? If buying a toy to undermine the mother is the basis of the relationship, how valuable is it?
It's not the toy. It's about them having their own space that the mother does not control, unless there is imminent danger. And I'm sorry, if you are reacting to a Snow White doll as imminent danger, then you not only live a very isolated and privileged life, but you also have some priorities out of whack.

Quote:

You're saying that the grandmother's right to do whatever she wants, even if that involves manipulation, undermining and passive-aggression, is strictly between her and the (minor) child, and the mother has no right to interfere, even to protect her own child. Because family is family.
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that except in cases of imminent danger, she should. Because the OP did not post about spanking, potty-training, feeding junk food, using foul language, or anything NEAR manipulation.

She BOUGHT HER A DOLL AND REPLACED IT. The mom didn't like the doll. Is that "manipulation, undermining, and passive aggression"? Is that imminent danger? Your kid is going to face bullies and sexual harassment on the street in five years max, and you are putting that kind of stuff on the same level as a doll?

If you think so, I think you are risking putting a lot of people and things in the "toxic" category that don't deserve to be there. Lots of people are selfish and clueless but at least have a kind heart.

Million to one what this grandma thought was, "Mom said she doesn't buy character things. Something about sexism or whatnot. These poor girls today, can't even have dollies without someone saying they're sexist. I used to love my dollies! At least DGD can play dollies with me, even if her mama doesn't want to. Now where's that Snow White doll?"

And that's assuming that the daughter didn't bring it up, because even though she doesn't bring it up to her mom, she might have to grandma.

Quote:

I would have done that, trust me! But we get together for Christmas with them every year and she actually just handed the ornaments to the boys when my SIL and I were both looking away. There is NO WAY we would have handed them over!
Holy cow. Wow. Okay, I see your point! That's... in need of help. Not sure where she came up with that idea. Wow, my mouth keeps dropping open, LOL! That sucks, what a situation to be in. "Do not feed baby glass." One of those rules you wouldn't think you'd need to write down!

_Now, a lot of you are talking about abusive parents that hurt and hit and manipulated. Okay, I can see that. But if you think that giving someone a doll and replacing it is a sign of abuse, then... I am not sure whether we have anything close to the same starting point. I know the mom said "no" but we have no idea what the words were that she used to express that, and how grandma interprets things, and so on. I mean there is a certain level of willful ignorance that woman in each previous generation had to maintain to survive. My cousin mentioned how amazingly blind to the obvious evils of the world depression-era women are... as if on too much Prozac, only not. They just had to develop that to survive. It's a foible, not a toxic, abusive character trait, yk?_


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## odenata (Feb 1, 2005)

OP - are you still around? Any thoughts?


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## northcountrymamma (Feb 24, 2006)

wow, I was just reading through in thinking that, this is totally my family and I'd love to see how others handle this...

I think some posters took this way over the top. This EXACT same situation could have happened in my home with either my mother or MIL or dd's bio grandparents. We don't do tv characters in book or toy form, we don't have a tv and dd watches an occasional nature based movie on the computer. it's the way we live in our home. Dd's extended family all know the details of why we do this and still go outside these boundaries all the time. We talk it over with dd and usually rid our home of the toy or book or movie. Sometimes they end up at a grandparents house, or a friends place. But they don't stay in our home.

I don't think any of her grandparents are toxic or passive aggressive really. I think they just plain and simple don't get it and don't want to get it. They want to pick out things that they think dd will like and sometimes that is a barbie castle because dd is into a doll house with little wooden princesses and fairies. They don't know how to shop online and find things at little family run businesses or places like magic cabin and they want to choose things themselves. Nonetheless, I still explain that we don't do these toys. Like one of the pp mentioned, repetition...and model by example...all her gifts from us that are given during family occasions.

Sure a snow white doll isn't harming the child really...but it is skewing the activity of her imagination when she hears story books containing princesses. I love to imagine what dd's mind must draw up when we read together about certain characters in our stories. I think SHE loves what she creates...and I have seen her disappointment when she sees what the characters look like in pictures if the books have pictures, she WANTS to create her own images.

I don't necessarily take things away by having them disappear, but I do talk to dd about why something might need a new home (the barbie castle is at a friends place who plays with barbies). I don't have to validate myself to her grandparents, I just keep repeating that this is the way I choose to raise my child. And if their only method of formulating a good relationship with dd is through gift giving then they seriously need to re-evaluate anyways. I know that dd and her grandparents create relationships that are meaningful through the things they do together, not through gift giving. My mother probably gets this more than any of them because I can be most forth coming with her...but she still does it sometimes...and sure she gets all sensitive and says "ugh...you are so picky, you know this is going to backfire on you one day"...but we don't let it get in the middle of our relationship (which is and always has been lovely) and dd and her have a fantastic relationship. Now dd is at the point where she will tell my mom what things she thinks are appropriate and if she doesn't know will tell her to call and ask me. it works for us...

alas I was still hoping for other ideas.
what a twist on the OP's questions this thread became.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EarthMamaToBe* 
I am the Mom. If I say my child can't have something and my mother buys it not once but TWICE she is showing total disrespect for me as a parent.

I'd consider that an overreaction.


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## LaFlaca1226 (Oct 17, 2007)

I think the OP should calmly say "Mom, I feel disrespected when you buy things that you know I don't approve of for my kids. Yet this Snow White doll seemed to really matter to you - enough that you would buy it twice even though you know it goes against my values." Then just see what Mom has to say. Maybe she'll just pretend she didn't realize (and if she's this cowardly, she probably won't buy anything like that again), or maybe it will open up a dialogue about everybody's feelings. I think this is the best way to stop passive-aggressive behavior in its tracks. Calmly open up about your own hurt feelings (not another explanation of your values, which are not really at issue here), and hopefully Mom will explain how she feels, and maybe understanding each other's feelings will lead the way to a compromise.

But I know staying calm is not easy. I have issues with my FIL and the food he feeds DD, and when he does it in front of me, I get so angry that I have to stay quiet because if I speak, it will be in language unfit for DD's little ears. One day I'll figure out how to calmly tell him how I feel.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaFlaca1226* 
I think the OP should calmly say "Mom, I feel disrespected when you buy things that you know I don't approve of for my kids. Yet this Snow White doll seemed to really matter to you - enough that you would buy it twice even though you know it goes against my values." Then just see what Mom has to say. Maybe she'll just pretend she didn't realize (and if she's this cowardly, she probably won't buy anything like that again), or maybe it will open up a dialogue about everybody's feelings. I think this is the best way to stop passive-aggressive behavior in its tracks. Calmly open up about your own hurt feelings (not another explanation of your values, which are not really at issue here), and hopefully Mom will explain how she feels, and maybe understanding each other's feelings will lead the way to a compromise.

But I know staying calm is not easy. I have issues with my FIL and the food he feeds DD, and when he does it in front of me, I get so angry that I have to stay quiet because if I speak, it will be in language unfit for DD's little ears. One day I'll figure out how to calmly tell him how I feel.

Such good advice!


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## stinkelein (Jul 2, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TulsiLeaf* 
it's a battle you will never, EVER win. *sigh*

It's my daughters birthday next week and I am trying to figure out a group present all her immediate family members can buy her. Try to tell her two grandparents you want a handmade wooden dollhouse that costs around 130 bucks!
"But there is a really nice plastic one in walmart for 50. Plastic is so much better than wood because you can bleach it. Wood just gets dirty"

Yeah, you will never win.

yep that exactly. though my mum is getting really good cause she knows my 3 don't know characters and my sis's kids do (so they get the commercial junk)


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## Alana (Jan 4, 2005)

I understand your concerns.
However- what is the most important thing here? That she gets toys that pass your test, or that she has an involved loving grandmother? My mom died a few months ago and I really wasted time and put added strain on our relationship with things like this.
I wish I hadn't. They aren't as important as one thinks.


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## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VillageMom6* 
Your mother has decided that she doesn't care about your feelings in this area. What matters to her is what _she_ wants to do. In order to do this, she is counting on you not making a fuss, which is what you continue not to do (understandably).

But if you want this to stop, you're going to have to be willing to have an uncomfortable moment. What I'm suggesting isn't fun but it's effective.

The next time that your mother is manipulative by giving your daughter a known-no-no gift in front of you and dd, you'll need to say something like, "I'm sorry, Mom. I appreciate you wanting to give Susie a gift, but as I've explained we don't allow character items. Please return it and exchange it for something else.".

Then you have to turn into a broken record, saying the same thing over and over without change or else your mother will keep arguing.

She may say, "But Susie likes it!".

You say, "I understand but we don't allow character items. Please exchange it for something else."

Her: "It's just a little doll."

You: "I understand but we don't allow character items. Please exchange it for something else."

Her: "You're being unreasonable. No one else has a problem with a simple Snow White doll!"

You: "I understand but we don't allow character items. Please exchange it for something else."

Your mother may test your boundaries a time or two more, but believe me, she doesn't want the unpleasant encounter any more than you do. Once she realizes that you're willing to have one, she'll quit buying character items!

Good luck!

I agree with all of this, except maybe the last sentence. MY mother wouldn't stop, on the contrary she would be urged on to cause more provocation (pretending that she couldn't understand why her daughter was being so horrible to her), determined not to "lose".







Your mother sounds pretty manipulative, so maybe she's of the same ilk - but maybe not.


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