# XXX strip clubs



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I have a while to go until my ds is old enough to read but I was wondering what you would tell your child about strip clubs?

Our science center requires a drive through the ghetto and I was just thinking "What am I going to say when he asks-whats that plaace for?"








:

Jenny


----------



## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

We regularly pass one on public transit with big photos outside of the attractions inside. Dd cheerfully observed in a piercing voice once that we were passing the place where the ladies dance with their clothes off. That about sums it up, right?


----------



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

"Why mommy?"


----------



## WNB (Apr 29, 2006)

Well, my DD loves being naked, as does my nephew and as did my neice... so I can't imagine a kid asking WHY someone would want to dance without clothes on. It would just seem like the obvious preference.


----------



## holly6737 (Dec 21, 2006)

I would explain (this is me personally, not everyone has this view- I can see how this topic could get ugly fast) that women are beautiful and men like to look at naked women. It's good for men to look at naked women if it's their wives or partners because they are in love. It's not good (and this is my *personal* opinion) for men to look at naked women who aren't their wives or partners because their not in love. And then I'd sort of leave it at that. When they're older I'll explain how porn and strip clubs demean, degrade and objectify women and how in our family we have respect for women and women's bodies, which means we don't look at them as just objects, but as beautiful people who are real and have feelings. It's a touchy subject. Granted, I'm a feminist and do believe that porn and strip clubs objectify women, so that's what I'm going to teach my kids. If you don't believe that, then I guess ignore what I just said!









ETA: Oh, and I have boys. So my approach would probably be slightly different if I had girls.


----------



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WNB* 
Well, my DD loves being naked, as does my nephew and as did my neice... so I can't imagine a kid asking WHY someone would want to dance without clothes on. It would just seem like the obvious preference.


----------



## woobysma (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WNB* 
Well, my DD loves being naked, as does my nephew and as did my neice... so I can't imagine a kid asking WHY someone would want to dance without clothes on. It would just seem like the obvious preference.









yep, DS definitely prefers dancing naked









Seriously though, I've had similar thoughts. I have 2 boys; my oldest is almost 10. I have no idea how to even begin to explain some men's attitude towards women and sex. I am vocal about how I want him to treat women in his life as an adult. DP came from an abusive home and talks a lot about respecting women in general and me specifically. I'm hoping that lays the foundation for the "why" conversations about strippers, etc.


----------



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

So if kids enjoy dancing naked, I can see my 4 year old at one of those preschool dance classes saying I am going to work at a place you can dance naked when I grow up.







:


----------



## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

I think we first mentioned strippers when my daughter was two and would take all her clothes off and streak around . . . we all used to joke that she was going to be a stripper. So far, it's still a running joke (and she still loves being naked).

We also have a friend who goes to one of the local clubs fairly often, and so we talk about it with him.

I guess my kids will just grow up knowing? I don't think it's a big deal, I've seriously considered stripping myself for extra income, and I don't have anything against the clubs from a moral POV.


----------



## holly6737 (Dec 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
So if kids enjoy dancing naked, I can see my 4 year old at one of those preschool dance classes saying I am going to work at a place you can dance naked when I grow up.







:


----------



## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammastar2* 
We regularly pass one on public transit with big photos outside of the attractions inside. Dd cheerfully observed in a piercing voice once that we were passing the place where the ladies dance with their clothes off. That about sums it up, right?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
"Why mommy?"









If there is a 'why' that follows, I suppose I'd just keep it brief and neutral - "some people enjoy watching them, I guess." Dd did ask if she could go see them, since she was taking dance classes and thought she'd go see the dancing ladies, and I said that no kids were allowed because they serve lots of alcohol. That seemed to cover it. She just likes to point it out now when we're on public transit because she thinks the idea of ladies dancing naked is such a hoot!

We can always discuss more when she's older, but I try to stick to answering her questions in bite-sized pieces, and not over-answering, especially with the big stuff, since then it always comes out wrong and confuses her!


----------



## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

This is where my ability to answer the question honestly but completely obfuscate the issue comes into play.

Tell him that they are establishments for exercising the First Amendment. Go directly into a discussion of the Bill of Rights.


----------



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
This is where my ability to answer the question honestly but completely obfuscate the issue comes into play.

Tell him that they are establishments for exercising the First Amendment. Go directly into a discussion of the Bill of Rights.


Ah ha! this is the answer~ LOL I love it.


----------



## goodygumdrops (Jan 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pigpokey* 
This is where my ability to answer the question honestly but completely obfuscate the issue comes into play.

Tell him that they are establishments for exercising the First Amendment. Go directly into a discussion of the Bill of Rights.

hahahaha...


----------



## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

I agree with straightforward explanations that it is naked dancing for adults to watch if that's what they like to do. I have no moral objection to it. If pressed as to "Why?" I would answer the way I did when a 9-year-old I was tutoring asked me what a hooker is (after her parents had rented _Pretty Woman_ for her and a sleepover guest to watch, unsupervised; parents had not seen it!!!): Some people are so lonely that they think paying someone to pretend to be interested in them is better than being alone. I'm sure my son will not get through puberty without hearing EnviroDaddy rant about how totally lame that is.









The only strip club we pass on a regular basis--two blocks from childcare--is discreet enough that my kid is unlikely to ask about it until he can read and wonder what "exotic dancers" are. By then, he might enjoy musing on why simply being naked is "exotic"







and I can tell him that when I was in college, my two male housemates celebrated the 21st birthday of one of them by going to that very club, and they came home as soon as they finished their drinks because it was so pathetic.









Quote:

Tell him that they are establishments for exercising the First Amendment. Go directly into a discussion of the Bill of Rights.


----------



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I have concerns about pornography and their addictive propertys. Thats my "moral" issue with strippers. But I am bi-polar and have definatly thought about being one. LOL.


----------



## holly6737 (Dec 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca* 
By then, he might enjoy musing on why simply being naked is "exotic"







and I can tell him that when I was in college, my two male housemates celebrated the 21st birthday of one of them by going to that very club, and they came home as soon as they finished their drinks because it was so pathetic.


























Yes, I always thought it was funny in the small town I grew up in to find out who ended up being a stripper. Some you could see coming, others, not so much. Either way, I've heard from girl friends that they are definitely lame, but a good way to pick up horny guys (I would never do it because, well, read my first post and that explains it). It's really funny when I hear a girlfriend of mine I grew up with say "Oh, you'll never guess who I ran into. It was at the Crazy Horse. She's a stripper now. Kind of ackward to see her with just a G-string on". Yes. Ackward indeed.

ETA: I just wanted to add that I don't think strippers are bad people. I do think they're giving in to being objectified, but I don't think they're bad people. Just wanted to add that in case anyone who reads this was a stripper once.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
"Why mommy?"









for money.


----------



## Baby Makes 4 (Feb 18, 2005)

We're brutally honest and have answered every question our DS have ever asked without pulling punches.

He knows that prostitutes have sex for money, that strippers dance naked for money and that pornography is where people have their pictures taken naked for money.


----------



## Baby Makes 4 (Feb 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
So if kids enjoy dancing naked, I can see my 4 year old at one of those preschool dance classes saying I am going to work at a place you can dance naked when I grow up.







:

My 4 year old son used to tell people he was going to be a homeless person when he was older so he could just sit around and ask peope for money all day. It took me until he was 6 to help him understand why that wasn't such a hot idea.


----------



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Baby Makes 4* 
My 4 year old son used to tell people he was going to be a homeless person when he was older so he could just sit around and ask peope for money all day. It took me until he was 6 to help him understand why that wasn't such a hot idea.

I shouldnt laugh...its kinda funny.









But then kinda not.


----------



## apple_dumpling (Oct 20, 2004)

This thread made me remember a family vacation to Myrtle Beach with my brother, who was 3 at the time... we rode by one called the "Pink Pony" with the name printed on an angle twice on the place, so my brother spent the entire vacation yelling PINK PINK PONY PONY everywhere we went









He really wanted to go to the pink pony... he loved ponies and pink at the time


----------



## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

we just sorta went with "thats weird" and "yucky stuff in there"


----------



## tsume (Jun 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WNB* 
Well, my DD loves being naked, as does my nephew and as did my neice... so I can't imagine a kid asking WHY someone would want to dance without clothes on. It would just seem like the obvious preference.











We pass a couple of them all the time and when the kids asked we said it's where ladies dance.

Once our almost 4 year old said that's where sad ladies dance. One of the places is Heartbreakers and we think that's where she came up with the sad part.


----------



## happyhippiemama (Apr 1, 2004)

Now this is fun .... my DD asks me a slightly different question...









"Mommy, where do you go to work?"

One of those places that this thread is about, honey.







:







:


----------



## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

I believe in total honesty, at an age appropriate level, of course. So, like everything else, I'd tell him the truth. That women take their clothes off and dance for money.

Some people might think that's odd, but I have a very open attitude about sexuality. I would not strip myself, but have had a friend who was a stripper in the past and don't have any moral objection to strip clubs. I want my son to grow up with open communication about strip clubs, porn, etc and the potential problems those things can bring to a relationship, why some people think it's objectifying women, etc. To me, that conversation starts early and we keep those lines of communication open.


----------



## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happyhippiemama* 
Now this is fun .... my DD asks me a slightly different question...









"Mommy, where do you go to work?"

One of those places that this thread is about, honey.







:







:


----------



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happyhippiemama* 
Now this is fun .... my DD asks me a slightly different question...









"Mommy, where do you go to work?"

One of those places that this thread is about, honey.







:







:
















:


----------



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

I really dont have an issue with strippers at all-in fact, there have been MANY MANY MANY times where I really really really wanted to strip myself. I guess my issue is simply with the addiction to porn I mentioned earlier-I think its as dangerous as drugs-especially within a committed relationship.

But I do like to take dh every once in a while, although I wouldnt share this with my kids-thats private! LOL


----------



## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

I am not an advocate of strip clubs and the like due to personal moral convictions -- however I would make all attempts to be objective in explanations to our daughter. If she asks my opinion on it, I will tell her, but if she simply asked what they were and what people did in there I would be matter of fact and honest without interjecting big opinions either way -- at least that is my intention (she is still a toddler so hasn't really noticed them).


----------



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy* 
I am not an advocate of strip clubs and the like due to personal moral convictions -- however I would make all attempts to be objective in explanations to our daughter. If she asks my opinion on it, I will tell her, but if she simply asked what they were and what people did in there I would be matter of fact and honest without interjecting big opinions either way -- at least that is my intention (she is still a toddler so hasn't really noticed them).

Ahhhh, thats a blessing! LOL I am so opinionated I think I alienate people....I can remember my mom being really outspoken about how discusting ciggerette smoking was and my whole life I thought PEOPLE who smoked were discusting becausse of it. (Then I started smoking.







)

Its really hard for me not to voice my opinion because I have so darn many.


----------



## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

I agree with CC (surprise surprise!) I am a feminist too, and I have moral objections to strip clubs. If she asks, I'll be honest about what goes on, what people do for money and so on. I will give her MY opinion, but she is free, of course, to make her own. I've had friends who worked in strip clubs so it's not like I'm a jerky when it comes to it, I just dont agree that it is a positive thing for women to be objectified for money. JMHO though.


----------



## happyhippiemama (Apr 1, 2004)

Just wanted to add that I'm a feminist too... but obviously more of the new wave style of thinking.

I don't think that everything in regards to the adult industry is healthy either for the people in it, the people who are its consumers, or society overall, but what that basically means is that I think the industry should be _different_, not non-existent.

Strip clubs rock


----------



## Jeanne D'Arc (Apr 7, 2007)

*
I was a stripper for a long time (among many 'other' things)

In fact I plan on writing a book about my experiences.

When/if my daughter asks, I will tell her the truth, perhaps
not all at once but, i wont hide it from her. I will explain to
her what kind of things go on there, and what drove mommy
to chose that profession , and furthermore explain to her its
not a safe or good place for women and that it often leads
to worse things.

I always get a bit triggered at these threads though,
i mean these questions need to be asked. But working
in all facets of the sex industry and how much it destroyed
and was a facet for my sexually abused childhood, to
then have people joking about it or even 'enjoying ' it
themselves, bothers me so much...there are so many
girls in porn, stripping and prostitution that are hurting,
suicidal and addicted to drugs, sure there are some that
somehow arent damaged by it , but that does not erase
the norm.

Most of these girls ( many of whom were my friends )
come from messed up sexually abused childhoods, and
never matured out of that. Many are single moms who dont
know any other way to support their children, many of the
girls are abused by boyfriends because thats all they've
ever known, and d some are simply doing it for an ego
boost, though it usually destroys your self identity and
confuse your outside world with you "performer " world.

I strongly hope that parents will teach their children
that porn, stripping and prostitution are industries
that take advantage of human suffering.

There is no way to guarantee that the woman( or man )
you are watching perform wasnt molested as a child.
There is no way to know if what they are doing is causing them
emotional or physical pain (physical pain is quite common btw).
Or if it will effect their sexuality permanently.

Many people in the sex industry develop sexual PTSD.
I know that I did, for the longest time i couldn't orgasm
and would throw up and cry after sex. This is not
exception, this is extremely common.

I know I kinda ran on with that , but as a stripper myself
i feel the need to really inform people who don't know
the dark side of it. And the dark side is very dark, trust me.*


----------



## funkygranolamama (Aug 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Briseis_of.Troy* 
*
I was a stripper for a long time (among many 'other' things)

In fact I plan on writing a book about my experiences.

When/if my daughter asks, I will tell her the truth, perhaps
not all at once but, i wont hide it from her. I will explain to
her what kind of things go on there, and what drove mommy
to chose that profession , and furthermore explain to her its
not a safe or good place for women and that it often leads
to worse things.

I always get a bit triggered at these threads though,
i mean these questions need to be asked. But working
in all facets of the sex industry and how much it destroyed
and was a facet for my sexually abused childhood, to
then have people joking about it or even 'enjoying ' it
themselves, bothers me so much...there are so many
girls in porn, stripping and prostitution that are hurting,
suicidal and addicted to drugs, sure there are some that
somehow arent damaged by it , but that does not erase
the norm.

Most of these girls ( many of whom were my friends )
come from messed up sexually abused childhoods, and
never matured out of that. Many are single moms who dont
know any other way to support their children, many of the
girls are abused by boyfriends because thats all they've
ever known, and d some are simply doing it for an ego
boost, though it usually destroys your self identity and
confuse your outside world with you "performer " world.

I strongly hope that parents will teach their children
that porn, stripping and prostitution are industries
that take advantage of human suffering.

There is no way to guarantee that the woman( or man )
you are watching perform wasnt molested as a child.
There is no way to know if what they are doing is causing them
emotional or physical pain (physical pain is quite common btw).
Or if it will effect their sexuality permanently.

Many people in the sex industry develop sexual PTSD.
I know that I did, for the longest time i couldn't orgasm
and would throw up and cry after sex. This is not
exception, this is extremely common.

I know I kinda ran on with that , but as a stripper myself
i feel the need to really inform people who don't know
the dark side of it. And the dark side is very dark, trust me.*


how sad..... i'm sorry you went through that. i'm sure it's a daily issue for you.

my kids haven't asked about strip clubs, although I think some of their signage might make it obvious. Here are a few

"Alot of beautiful girls and one ugly one"
"Come see three foot seven name XXX HOT!"
I probably shouldn't say the name of the club either, but it's pretty direct.


----------



## PGNPORTLAND (Jul 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happyhippiemama* 
Now this is fun .... my DD asks me a slightly different question...









"Mommy, where do you go to work?"

One of those places that this thread is about, honey.







:







:









:









I would tell her that it is a kind of theatre for adults where many beautiful, intellegent, and strong women perform amazing feats of acrobatics, gymnastics, and flexibility to adoring fans. Unfortunately for these lovely and talented creatures, they are often underpaid and have no health insurance.

Additionally they have the bad reputation of somehow ruining feminism and luring happily married me away from their wives.

They are called often called strippers, exotic dancers, or whores but many, many years ago they might have been called Goddesses








:


----------



## arlecchina (Jul 25, 2006)

LOL when my oldest was around 4 we drove past one and he asked what it was, and as I was distracted I said "it's a titty bar" then I was like,oh no....and he asked what they do there. so I said well,some guys go there to see girls dance without a shirt on. and he said why? and I said I dont know. and he left it at that. I could have handled it better I am sure but it wasnt too bad.


----------



## holly6737 (Dec 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Briseis_of.Troy* 
*
I was a stripper for a long time (among many 'other' things)

In fact I plan on writing a book about my experiences.

When/if my daughter asks, I will tell her the truth, perhaps
not all at once but, i wont hide it from her. I will explain to
her what kind of things go on there, and what drove mommy
to chose that profession , and furthermore explain to her its
not a safe or good place for women and that it often leads
to worse things.

I always get a bit triggered at these threads though,
i mean these questions need to be asked. But working
in all facets of the sex industry and how much it destroyed
and was a facet for my sexually abused childhood, to
then have people joking about it or even 'enjoying ' it
themselves, bothers me so much...there are so many
girls in porn, stripping and prostitution that are hurting,
suicidal and addicted to drugs, sure there are some that
somehow arent damaged by it , but that does not erase
the norm.

Most of these girls ( many of whom were my friends )
come from messed up sexually abused childhoods, and
never matured out of that. Many are single moms who dont
know any other way to support their children, many of the
girls are abused by boyfriends because thats all they've
ever known, and d some are simply doing it for an ego
boost, though it usually destroys your self identity and
confuse your outside world with you "performer " world.

I strongly hope that parents will teach their children
that porn, stripping and prostitution are industries
that take advantage of human suffering.

There is no way to guarantee that the woman( or man )
you are watching perform wasnt molested as a child.
There is no way to know if what they are doing is causing them
emotional or physical pain (physical pain is quite common btw).
Or if it will effect their sexuality permanently.

Many people in the sex industry develop sexual PTSD.
I know that I did, for the longest time i couldn't orgasm
and would throw up and cry after sex. This is not
exception, this is extremely common.

I know I kinda ran on with that , but as a stripper myself
i feel the need to really inform people who don't know
the dark side of it. And the dark side is very dark, trust me.*


Quote:


Originally Posted by *PGNPORTLAND* 







:









I would tell her that it is a kind of theatre for adults where many beautiful, intellegent, and strong women perform amazing feats of acrobatics, gymnastics, and flexibility to adoring fans. Unfortunately for these lovely and talented creatures, they are often underpaid and have no health insurance.

Additionally they have the bad reputation of somehow ruining feminism and luring happily married me away from their wives.

They are called often called strippers, exotic dancers, or whores but many, many years ago they might have been called Goddesses








:

I wonder if Briseis of Troy ever felt like a goddess??


----------



## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Briseis_of.Troy* 
*
I was a stripper for a long time (among many 'other' things)

In fact I plan on writing a book about my experiences.

When/if my daughter asks, I will tell her the truth, perhaps
not all at once but, i wont hide it from her. I will explain to
her what kind of things go on there, and what drove mommy
to chose that profession , and furthermore explain to her its
not a safe or good place for women and that it often leads
to worse things.

I always get a bit triggered at these threads though,
i mean these questions need to be asked. But working
in all facets of the sex industry and how much it destroyed
and was a facet for my sexually abused childhood, to
then have people joking about it or even 'enjoying ' it
themselves, bothers me so much...there are so many
girls in porn, stripping and prostitution that are hurting,
suicidal and addicted to drugs, sure there are some that
somehow arent damaged by it , but that does not erase
the norm.

Most of these girls ( many of whom were my friends )
come from messed up sexually abused childhoods, and
never matured out of that. Many are single moms who dont
know any other way to support their children, many of the
girls are abused by boyfriends because thats all they've
ever known, and d some are simply doing it for an ego
boost, though it usually destroys your self identity and
confuse your outside world with you "performer " world.

I strongly hope that parents will teach their children
that porn, stripping and prostitution are industries
that take advantage of human suffering.

There is no way to guarantee that the woman( or man )
you are watching perform wasnt molested as a child.
There is no way to know if what they are doing is causing them
emotional or physical pain (physical pain is quite common btw).
Or if it will effect their sexuality permanently.

Many people in the sex industry develop sexual PTSD.
I know that I did, for the longest time i couldn't orgasm
and would throw up and cry after sex. This is not
exception, this is extremely common.

I know I kinda ran on with that , but as a stripper myself
i feel the need to really inform people who don't know
the dark side of it. And the dark side is very dark, trust me.*

Wow, that's really sad.


----------



## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

Briseis- I'm so sorry you've been through that. Every experience with strippers (2 of my close friends) and my experience working in night clubs has proven exactly what you said time and time again. That's why I'm so opposed to them. I've done quite a bit of research on the drug/nightclub/sex industry, and it's very very disheartening.







:


----------



## holly6737 (Dec 21, 2006)

Anyone ever read "I was a playboy bunny" by gloria steinem?


----------



## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Briseis *hugs* thank you for sharing your experience.

That has been my experience too (not as a stripper!) but when I was in college I was majoring in Sociology and did many papers on the sex/ "entertainment" industry, interviewing many, many women (and men, but fewer men than women) -- and it would almost always begin with "Oh yeah this job is AWESOME I make SO much money , people ADORE ME" type statements -- but 15, 20 minutes into the interview would evolve into stories just like yours.

My interview process was objective too (it had to be approved for research) so there was no judgment or coercion.

As a rough estimate I would say that stories like yours (or similar) encompassed probably about 95% + of the people I have spoken to -- even the women from "high class" establishments as well.

It is very sad to me. I don't believe that strippers and the like have "ruined" feminism, I think that they have been exploited by feminists truthfully. I think it is a situation of, either we will hate and condemn you, or embrace you so long as you say you are doing it as part of "the cause".

Don't get me wrong, I am a feminist and my political view differs from my moral/personal view in that I think prostitution should be even be legal (taxing and regulation/mandatory testing to work at brothels etc would protect a lot of women from disease/abuse) -- but my moral belief of the industry (not of the women personally) coupled with my research leads me to the conclusion that it is (mostly) not a good scene.

Maybe I should just print out that reply to hand to my daughter should she ever ask














jk


----------



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PGNPORTLAND* 







:









, they are often underpaid and have no health insurance.








:

Seriously? Not in Tampa!
















:

I am so sorry to hear your experiences to the other poster, but I am so thankful that you now have a story to share. I have often heard the saying "Strippers are someones little girl" (To a man who might be watching.)

The things that have driven me to explore the industry when I have thought about dancing have all stemmed from issues I have with mental health, I dont think if I were healthy, I would think about it. But I could be wrong. And I dont assume that all dancers or even most have issues. I just would!


----------



## happyhippiemama (Apr 1, 2004)

I've found (in my 7 years in the adult industry) that yes, many many women have been sexually abused at some point in their lifetime.

In the general population, 1 in 3 women have been sexually abused.

I don't think that being abused as a child or a young woman necessarily drives you into the sex industry anymore than being abused turns you into a lesbian. *shrug*

It hasn't always been a healthy place for me, I'm not arguing that. But I also don't think that I am a victim for having been here, and that is what the angle that Briseis and many, many other anti-sex industry people seem to be taking makes me feel like I _should_ feel like.

I am not being taken advantage of. Period. I AM a goddess. While I don't feel like a goddess every night I work, most other people don't like their jobs every day either.

There is a time and a place for every dancer/porn star/whatever to bail out of the industry. If it starts to destroy you, by all means, get the hell out, and fast.

But in the meantime, please _please_ don't pity me/hate me/think that I'm a victim/think that I'm a whore..... whatever else. Just think of me as a walking, talking, listening, performing masterpiece.







:


----------



## holly6737 (Dec 21, 2006)

I don't think you're a victim at all. You made a conscious choice to go into an industry which oppresses women.

And as a feminist, I wouldn't embrace a sex worker, even if they said they _were_ doing it for feminism. I would just think they were incorrect and misguided.


----------



## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Cmon now hippy, let's be brutally honest here.

I won't debate whether you enjoy what you do -- you say you do, you do, fair enough.

However, please refrain from trying to delude us (or yourself!) into believing that men go to strip clubs to see "intellegent, and strong women perform amazing feats of acrobatics, gymnastics, and flexibility to adoring fans" (your words).

Almost all men go to strip clubs to see women that they perceive to be attractive take their clothing off for the sexual pleasure of men in exchange for money...not to "adore" them as "goddesses".

I think it is great that you see yourself in that light and you should, it is healthy and I certainly wouldn't want anyone to feel badly about themselves -- no snark, honestly...

....but if you think that most of the men see strippers/sex industry workers in that light, that is (imo) wildly inaccurate.


----------



## holly6737 (Dec 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy* 
Almost all men go to strip clubs to see women that they perceive to be attractive take their clothing off for the sexual pleasure of men in exchange for money...not to "adore" them as "goddesses".
.

That's exactly right. They see you as T&A and that's all. Then they go jack off thinking about your breasts.


----------



## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

I don't have a problem with strip clubs, so I would just tell my DD what happens there (in age-appropriate words/terms).

I guess if you have a problem with it, that makes it a bit trickier.


----------



## holly6737 (Dec 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PGNPORTLAND* 
where many beautiful, intellegent, and strong women perform amazing feats of acrobatics, gymnastics, and flexibility to adoring fans.







:

I guess these men just couldn't afford Cirque Du Soleil?


----------



## Jenlaana (Oct 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Briseis_of.Troy* 
*
I was a stripper for a long time (among many 'other' things)

(snip)

but as a stripper myself i feel the need to really inform people who don't know
the dark side of it. And the dark side is very dark, trust me.*

See I was a stripper as well... among other things that I'd rather not discuss in detail on this forum for personal privacy issues... for about 6-8 years. I have seen some things that would probably shock some here, and I have done even more that people would be shocked by... my husband can barely believe some of the things that have happened in my past.

But ya know what? I enjoyed every single minute of it, and when I stopped enjoying it, I stopped doing it. I have some great stories from my "life as an exotic dancer" and some very interesting times from other adventures that I would not share with anyone, not because I didnt enjoy them (some many times more than "stripping") but because I dont feel the need to justify it these days, and I don't think that people would understand the life I used to lead.

People can have their opinions, about the adult industry and porn and prostitution and paid domination and dancing and phone sex and bisexuality and ...(have I missed any?) but for me, it was a part of the awakening of my adult life to realize and fulfill my sexual identity, and it has made me who I am, in a very very good way. I'm sorry that you had a bad childhood and your experience in the adult entertainment industry were negative for you because of it, but not all situations are bad, and not all people are hurt by their experiences... some, like me, are empowered by them.

As to the OP's question... I have a 12 year old son, and I have always taught him to treat women with respect, and that women are just as deserving of respect as men, and that we are all equal. I have also never hidden that I used to be a dancer, and that I am proud of that part of my past. I have told him that a beautiful woman, who has a beautiful body and chooses to show it, is nothing to be ashamed of, or taken advantage of. That nakedness does not = "use me" or shame or anything else. I've also told him in many conversations that sex is not something to be embarassed by or avoided on a religious ground, but that it is an act that one must be willing to understand the consequences of, before jumping in to,and that one must understand all of the risks involved before getting into - i.e. if you cannot conceive of handling a pregnant girlfriend, you probably should not be having sex yet, because it is always a possibility, even if remote... (this is not a "teaching" thing for us, it is just part of our views incorporated into life in general).


----------



## menudo (May 21, 2002)

Quote:

Our science center requires a drive through the ghetto and I was just thinking "What am I going to say when he asks-whats that plaace for?"
First, they are everywhere, just prettier facades and fancier names in the nicer neighborhoods. We have many out here. One next to a Catholic church and public school. One next to Wal Mart (HUGE with lotsa writing "live girl on girl" they won a supreme court case years ago when people tried to fight it-they do as they please). The list goes on and on!

Second, be honest. I am with my 10yo.


----------



## Jenlaana (Oct 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *transformed* 
Seriously? Not in Tampa!









I worked north of Tampa, and depending on what you chose to do and where you worked, it wasnt always a great paying job. But it was a lot more fun and well paying than the other options in front of me at the time.

Maybe it was different for me because I always saw it as fun and empowering, and any time I didnt feel like doing something, I didn't do it. I never felt like I HAD to dance for someone who disrespected me, or whatever. But to be honest... it was a lot of fun going from the frumpy oversized high school wallflower to an exotic dancer getting paid for that very same body (sans about 35lbs) and being paid to party with complete strangers. My drinks were always free and always flowing if I chose, my time was always well paid for, and I was considered desirable and really there were some guys that came in there because they were lonely and wanted company...and they were my favorites. Not all of it was about sex... there were many many times when a guy just wanted the undivided attention of a beautiful non-judgmental woman.


----------



## holly6737 (Dec 21, 2006)

One of the (many) reasons I married DH was because he never has gone, nor ever has any desire to go to, a strip club. It's a good litmus test, IMO.


----------



## holly6737 (Dec 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jenlaana* 
there were many many times when a guy just wanted the undivided attention of a beautiful non-judgmental woman.

.


----------



## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *holly6737* 
One of the (many) reasons I married DH was because he never has gone, nor ever has any desire to go to, a strip club. It's a good litmus test, IMO.

That's one of the things that made me fall in love with DF. Several years ago when we were first dating he went on a guys trip to New Orleans. His buddies spent msot of their time in a strip club, and DF kept calling me and telling me he had no interest, that I looked way better than any of those girls. His buddies even had a stripper call DF on his cell phone and he said, "I'd rather give my money to this casino than to a stripper so I'm going to sit right here at this slot machine"

After being married to a lying hubby who would have been slobbering all over those strippers .. what can I say? I started to fall in love.


----------



## holly6737 (Dec 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mistymama* 
That's one of the things that made me fall in love with DF. Several years ago when we were first dating he went on a guys trip to New Orleans. His buddies spent msot of their time in a strip club, and DF kept calling me and telling me he had no interest, that I looked way better than any of those girls. His buddies even had a stripper call DF on his cell phone and he said, "I'd rather give my money to this casino than to a stripper so I'm going to sit right here at this slot machine"

After being married to a lying hubby who would have been slobbering all over those strippers .. what can I say? I started to fall in love.









I know exactly how you feel! Doesn't it just make you all warm and fuzzy?!







:


----------



## Jeanne D'Arc (Apr 7, 2007)

*
I also wanted to add...

if any of you know someone you love who is in the
sex industry, feels trapped by it, and is seriously
being hurt by it, I highly recommend these two
sites.

I apologize for the thread jack, but i hope
that my experience will help you decide
how to approach it. I do not hate the women
who are still in the sex industry, not at all...
that would be hating myself, but i do pity
them. Many ( not all ) are hurting, confused,
and lonely and there is really no way to tell
which ones they are, I learned early on how to
fool customers but, I also learned to fool myself.

Good luck mamma!

Trigger: Some of the information contained on these
sites is meant to be educational but is still graphic.
*
www.shelleylubben.com

www.sexindustrysurvivors.com


----------



## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

For the record, I dont have an issue with strippers or strip clubs, but I do think that they should be a little bit more on the "down low" because my children need to be more mature before they are exposed to that kind of crap. (The signage is brutal to a child) As I said, I take dh to these places sometimes and we have certainly had some fun-but it needs to be for adults who choose it, and not just the general public driving by. I shouldnt have to explain the sex industry to my child who is just learning to read.

And sorry abouit the "ghetto" comment....i didnt mean it the way it sounded....but there are far less classy clubs in that area than in the nicer areas.


----------



## imahappymama (Feb 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Baby Makes 4* 
We're brutally honest and have answered every question our DS have ever asked without pulling punches.

He knows that prostitutes have sex for money, that strippers dance naked for money and that pornography is where people have their pictures taken naked for money.

I totally agree with this...We do it much the same way. Otherwise you end up with these long, drawn out conversations that end up so convoluted that the original meaning is lost.


----------



## happyhippiemama (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *captain crunchy* 
I won't debate whether you enjoy what you do -- you say you do, you do, fair enough.

Actually, I think I've made it pretty clear that I don't think it's a wonderful fabulous place to be for everyone, myself included, all the time, and I certainly never said on here that I enjoy it. That's your assumption because of the viewpoint that I'm presenting.

Quote:

However, please refrain from trying to delude us (or yourself!) into believing that men go to strip clubs to see "intellegent, and strong women perform amazing feats of acrobatics, gymnastics, and flexibility to adoring fans" (your words).
And those are _definitely_ not my words. I am one of the most uncoordinated dancers out there - no acrobatics or gymnastics for me, thank you very much. And I _strongly_ resent being told that I am trying to delude myself.

Quote:

Almost all men go to strip clubs to see women that they perceive to be attractive take their clothing off for the sexual pleasure of men in exchange for money...not to "adore" them as "goddesses".
You'd actually be surprised by the amount of time that I am minimally clothed. I have my gown on for a vast majority of my night.

Quote:

I think it is great that you see yourself in that light and you should, it is healthy and I certainly wouldn't want anyone to feel badly about themselves -- no snark, honestly...
and yet you just finished telling me that I am trying to delude myself??







:

Quote:

....but if you think that most of the men see strippers/sex industry workers in that light, that is (imo) wildly inaccurate.
It _used_ to be more so that way, in the heyday of stripping. It used to be that custy's felt honored to spend time with us, to receive our attention, to have their favored girl by their side. That's part of what's wrong with the stripping industry now, is that _everybody_ knows a stripper IRL, and so we're not "special" anymore. His roommate's girlfriend is a dancer, or his coworker moonlights, or his best friend's sister strips, or whatever... he's seen so many dancers half-asleep going to the bathroom before having their coffee in the morning that the allure is gone.

It _used_ to be that men treated us well, with respect, because we presented ourselves as worthy of it. Now, with strippers-a-rama everywhere, more and more men are just viewing us as regular girls who take their clothes off--- aka as sluts. And so they treat us with more disrespect, because they think that they can.

I honestly make at least 80% of my money from talking. The only reason I can't make money by talking with people fully clothed is that men are conditioned to idea that it's acceptable and expected in a strip club, whereas if I asked for a tip after chatting someone up at the grocery store they'd think I was crazy.

Actually, when I was bartending and waitressing and working as a saleswoman in many different industries, I primarily made my money by talking then as well. In those cases my custy's got to take home a tangible product, in a strip club they get to take home the memories of an enjoyable evening with a beautiful (well I don't really think so, actually, but whatever floats ur boat, you know?) woman and scintillating conversation.


----------



## Viewfinder (Sep 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *holly6737* 
ETA: I just wanted to add that I don't think strippers are bad people. I do think they're giving in to being objectified, but I don't think they're bad people. Just wanted to add that in case anyone who reads this was a stripper once.

But it didn't work out for me on account of I couldn't even take more than my gloves off. Haha.

It was just for a private group of three men; chemistry majors at the college my roommate was also a chem major at. Can't remember why I did it; there was a reason--my roommate asked me, or dared me to do this for her friends. I was DUMBFOUNDED by the state these fellas were put into; oh my God, they were more nervous than me. But, dancing a la Gypsy Rose Lee, showing nothing, to music playing loudly, Peggy Lee's "Fever," I think it was--I got as far as the gloves, and showing some leg (with black garter set-up and black fishnets), and then I had to shut it down. It was SCARY! I was not prepared for the backlash of my own self-judgement that night as I tried to sleep, and fear that I had opened a Pandora's Box by "teasing" these guys, and said as much the next day to my roommate, who told the boys (they were her good friends). The three of them each wrote me wonderful letters of thanks, describing their joy and delight in my "show" and assurance that I had not been misunderstood in my "gift" to them, their words, and a dozen red roses were delivered along with these handwritten messages. Wow. So cool. I hope they remember me today with the same gratitude that I remember them. I hope I saved those letters, they were so awesome.

Oh yeah, the reason I even started this was to say that there are currently MDCers who work as strippers. And wonderful, caring, devoted mummies. Just fyi.

VF


----------



## NC EcoMaMa (Jun 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happyhippiemama* 
Now this is fun .... my DD asks me a slightly different question...









"Mommy, where do you go to work?"

One of those places that this thread is about, honey.







:







:

I told my adult children that as well when I was younger and worked in them. It was how I supported them and kept them off the streets.

It was how I could work nights, be at during the day and help at the school, be a GS leader and all the little nice things that all the other mums who didn't have to got to do.

It is where I met other amazing mothers and girls putting themselves through University, very few losers, whores or crack addicts.

Where I made the most amazing, non judgmental friends who treated my children like their own and who were always there for me. We loved each other, were honest always. Never had to hide anything because there was nothing to hide.

Not anything like life outside the clubs whatsoever.

And only in a few states is it nekid, in most it is bathing suits. It is where men and a lot of married couples will pay to see what they see on the beach because of the atmosphere.


----------



## NC EcoMaMa (Jun 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happyhippiemama* 
Actually, I think I've made it pretty clear that I don't think it's a wonderful fabulous place to be for everyone, myself included, all the time, and I certainly never said on here that I enjoy it. That's your assumption because of the viewpoint that I'm presenting.

And those are _definitely_ not my words. I am one of the most uncoordinated dancers out there - no acrobatics or gymnastics for me, thank you very much. And I _strongly_ resent being told that I am trying to delude myself.

You'd actually be surprised by the amount of time that I am minimally clothed. I have my gown on for a vast majority of my night.

and yet you just finished telling me that I am trying to delude myself??







:

It _used_ to be more so that way, in the heyday of stripping. It used to be that custy's felt honored to spend time with us, to receive our attention, to have their favored girl by their side. That's part of what's wrong with the stripping industry now, is that _everybody_ knows a stripper IRL, and so we're not "special" anymore. His roommate's girlfriend is a dancer, or his coworker moonlights, or his best friend's sister strips, or whatever... he's seen so many dancers half-asleep going to the bathroom before having their coffee in the morning that the allure is gone.

It _used_ to be that men treated us well, with respect, because we presented ourselves as worthy of it. Now, with strippers-a-rama everywhere, more and more men are just viewing us as regular girls who take their clothes off--- aka as sluts. And so they treat us with more disrespect, because they think that they can.

I honestly make at least 80% of my money from talking. The only reason I can't make money by talking with people fully clothed is that men are conditioned to idea that it's acceptable and expected in a strip club, whereas if I asked for a tip after chatting someone up at the grocery store they'd think I was crazy.

Actually, when I was bartending and waitressing and working as a saleswoman in many different industries, I primarily made my money by talking then as well. In those cases my custy's got to take home a tangible product, in a strip club they get to take home the memories of an enjoyable evening with a beautiful (well I don't really think so, actually, but whatever floats ur boat, you know?) woman and scintillating conversation.


I could so quote this. Conversation was king!

How many men who spent most of their lives traveling and not home with their families would come in for company and to talk about their families. Of course there were some of those roaming guys who wanted more because they weren't getting what they needed at home. Not that they got it, but they did get the illusion of someone who cared enough to fix themselves up for them, if only for an hour or so.

I think it also depends on the clubs you are in and the girls you work with.

I worked with someone who did research on an S&M club and when it was finally published they only put the negative in the paper, none of the positive so it really upset me that they only showed the impact that they were trying to prove. You can't know the business or anything about the people unless you are there, and for more than a couple of nights.


----------



## thebarkingbird (Dec 2, 2005)

i have used this explination w/ my much younger siblings (12,7, and 5) and will use the same with my son.

it's those women's job to dance in those clubs. they get paid for it.

why?

because people like seeing other people naked sometimes and grownups will sometimes pay to see that kind of thing.

why?

because its one of those things that's fun for grownups. it's not healthy for little kids though.

i try to keep it neutral. i want DS to understand that it's a business, nothing more and nothing less. stripping is a job. i'm very sex positive and support legalization of prostitution. DH and i visit strip clubs together on occasion. i don't think there's anything wrong with it but i don't really feel it appropriate to involve my kids in my sex life by letting them know my fave adult passtimes either. i don't want to be labeled a hypocrite when they get to be teenagers and figure out that i go to those places. honestly, as a teenager didn't you know things about your parents that they made efforts to keep private?


----------



## thebarkingbird (Dec 2, 2005)

i find it a bit condescending that people "feel sorry" for sex workers who are presumably being beaten down and manipulated by society. this does happen. but i also know many people who are happy working in the industry and what could be more insulting than insisting that someone is so oblivious they don't even know they're being abused/used/exploited.


----------



## NC EcoMaMa (Jun 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thebarkingbird* 
i find it a bit condescending that people "feel sorry" for sex workers who are presumably being beaten down and manipulated by society. this does happen. but i also know many people who are happy working in the industry and what could be more insulting than insisting that someone is so oblivious they don't even know they're being abused/used/exploited.

I see more housewives ignored, neglected and abused than I did dancers.

My husband comes home from work and tells me about how the husbands in the local groups talk about how they tell their wives how they hate those places and go to them when they are out of town or supposedly taking the boss out to dinner. Men that take the moral stance so their wives will be good and behave while they are out and about playing, but I suppose that is the way it has always been.

I on the other side hear housewives talk about how they had a good night with their hubby for a dishwasher. At least I didn't have to put out, and I sure would not for an appliance either! I also see them sitting at concerts and in the parks with ziploc bags made up as Tequila shots and those are usually the same people who pass judgement on me or other people in the club industry. Their own lives are such a mess, they have to try to and see the seediness in everything and amplify it until the noise from their own hell has been drowned out.

My all time fav is those holier than thou people. They would never do it, and would probably let their children starve or remain homeless because they are just too "good" for such a thing. They would rather live off someone else's income and be in a loveless perverted relationship than have to face reality. The same people who have lived an easy life and can afford to judge.

I mean imagine shagging someone who obviously doesn't want to be with you night after night compared to getting a few dollars from someone who is worshiping you?


----------

