# healing the gut -- april



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

hola! i guess we're all so busy healing our guts that we didn't notice the month rolled over!


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Can you all recommend a liver support/cleanse product? (and where to get it)

Thanks,
Jen


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

i think my dh is using http://www.luckyvitamin.com/015794016113.html -- his only comment was that he took it this morning and by lunchtime he was stinky despite TWO applications of deodorant (one at home this morning and then one again at work).

locally, we have an herbalist who has a line of products (Green Turtle Botanicals) and she has a liver support blend. surprisingly, it doesn't contain milk thistle though most other support blends do.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Moneca recommends LiverLife, go over to Dental Forum and find "Chelating Mamas" thread where she posts about it. (Do a thread search it's several pages in.)

Milk thistle by itself is very good too, I like the brands Gaia or HerbPharm or Oregon Wild Harvest.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

I am just filled with questions tonight ladies.

I read through some of the older posts, and I am going to focus on the diet aspect before I start doubting/believing the NAET. So if you do SCD, can you or should you do a rotation diet with it? I am a bit confused, because SCD doesn't seem as hard to implement as the rotation diet would seem.

On to the yogurt question: when do you know that your yogurt is done? I was reading that in Europe they don't add powdered milk like they do here in the US, hence why it is runnier. One batch turned uber sour, which I have had in the past, but I am a bit more concerned with what I give a child since they are more sensitive to bacteria. I am just concerned that I will have killed off the good bacteria and let the bad ones overgrow when it goes sour? I had never had Kefir until recently, but that is what the yogurt tastes like.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Here's an interesting link about lectins...http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...n&ct=clnk&cd=9


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
I am just filled with questions tonight ladies.

I read through some of the older posts, and I am going to focus on the diet aspect before I start doubting/believing the NAET. So if you do SCD, can you or should you do a rotation diet with it? I am a bit confused, because SCD doesn't seem as hard to implement as the rotation diet would seem.

On to the yogurt question: when do you know that your yogurt is done? I was reading that in Europe they don't add powdered milk like they do here in the US, hence why it is runnier. One batch turned uber sour, which I have had in the past, but I am a bit more concerned with what I give a child since they are more sensitive to bacteria. I am just concerned that I will have killed off the good bacteria and let the bad ones overgrow when it goes sour? I had never had Kefir until recently, but that is what the yogurt tastes like.

You would probably want to start with just the SCD, and then if you think you need more or your DC reacts to many of the foods, consider doing a rotation along with that.

I think I read somewhere that homemade yogurt needs to culture at least 6 hours. The longer it goes the mor sour it will get. It should smell okay, just taste sour. You will know by the smell or taste if it is bad.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

My understanding of the Rotation Diet is that you include foods that the kids are sensitive/reactive to, but switch'em before kiddo has reactive symptom, such as eczema. If my assumption is correct, I didn't think the RD will give the bad gut a time to heal, but to leave undigested foods for yeast, parasites and bad bacteria.

SCD can be hard for people who have to do without eggs and nuts. I had to start with no eggs (but there are egg substitutes you can use for baking), along with other long list of food that we couldn't eat within the legal foods of SCD lists, such as honey and sugary fruits like ripe banana, grapes, coconut flakes, etc.

Another thing with SCD that may work in the idea of roation is that, if you cook small portions, you can always cook different things. Or, freeze the rest.

If you are trying to make SCD yogurt, it is done after incubating 24hr for cow or goat's milk. I've seen recipes (not SCD) where you add power milk to the milk, but SCD yogurt is about the probiotics and the lactose contents.

One of the main thing you can do to avoid culturing the bad guys is the temperature of the incubation, and using clean spoons, tools and cooking utensils (out of the dishwasher or boiling for 10mim.) I never questioned about other starters, but I went with Pro-Gurt since it was DF.

The home made yogurt does need to be incubated for 6hr. or so. Otherwise, it'll be runny. However, again, if you are making the SCD yogurt, you culture it for 24hr. to get the lactose out. The yogurt will turn tarter as you leave it incubated, and you will see more whey.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Hmmm. Rotation. Maybe I could do 24 hour yogurt every 4 days and see how it goes....Off to read more about rotation.......
Thanks for the liver recs. I think I will try Herb Pharm since I have treied their formulas and it is available locally.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
My understanding of the Rotation Diet is that you include foods that the kids are sensitive/reactive to, but switch'em before kiddo has reactive symptom, such as eczema. If my assumption is correct, I didn't think the RD will give the bad gut a time to heal, but to leave undigested foods for yeast, parasites and bad bacteria.

Yes, foods are included that you are sensitive/reactive to.

That is what I thought too until we tried the 4 Day Rotation Diet. DS is having the most perfect poops now eating many foods, including grains and potatoes and sugars, and he is much much better off than doing SCD. We are doing digestive enzymes too of course, but we were also doing that with SCD as well.

The idea of healing with rotation of foods is that you are not constantly giving the same foods... so if any are causing inflammation reactions, the effects are minimized. An inflamed gut cannot allow good bacteria to attach either. Plus I think if you have a leaky gut, if you are eating the same foods all the time it increases chance of developing an allergy...especially in kids where their immune system has not matured yet.

If anyone knows the age where oral tolerance is generally reached, I'd love to know.

I now think healing goes well beyond the approach of SCD. Not that SCD doesn't make valid points. But it might not be the answer for everyone, or the answer for young kids.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 

If anyone knows the age where oral tolerance is generally reached, I'd love to know.


I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was around 6 or 7, but I have no idea where I found that.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
An inflamed gut cannot allow good bacteria to attach either.

Aaah! I didn't know this! So the $165 probiotics I've been taking probably aren't doing anything...







:







: And dd's isn't either? I was under the impression that mucus in poop means the gut is inflamed. She has lots of mucus!

In other news, I just got my hair analysis results in for nutrient/toxic elements. It's all very interesting and I'm not quite sure if the leaky gut can cause high levels of these, or if high levels can cause leaky gut/poor digestion.

Anyway, here is my post about it. If anyone has any input, I'm all ears!!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Aaah! I didn't know this! So the $165 probiotics I've been taking probably aren't doing anything...







:







: And dd's isn't either? I was under the impression that mucus in poop means the gut is inflamed. She has lots of mucus!

In other news, I just got my hair analysis results in for nutrient/toxic elements. It's all very interesting and I'm not quite sure if the leaky gut can cause high levels of these, or if high levels can cause leaky gut/poor digestion.

Anyway, here is my post about it. If anyone has any input, I'm all ears!!

Have you looked into lectins at all as a possible cause of some of your issues? I was just reading today that one of the symptoms of lectin intolerance can cause is mucus in the stool.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

I don't think it is SCD's intention to keep you on SCD for ever, but re-introduce food as your guts heals. How long you need to stay on SCD would vary depends on your condition, healing rate, compliance, family/medical history, and other variables. I can not compare if SCD is better healing than Rotation Diet since I put both of my kids on SCD, and never did RD. I think SCD should be followed in stages, in which the book seems to lack explaining the intro stage, what to look for, and re-introducing the foods and how. The book also never explains about the use of digestive enzyme, either (but the web site does, and I strongly believe you should not look over the benefit of enzymes with or without SCD.) To even go further about SCD, I don't agree with its use of honey or ripe banana in the later stage of SCD, at least. It is too high of sugar for leaky, yeasty people. You can also easily eat too much protein and baked food on SCD, too, which you definitely need to avoid. SCD is also difficult to follow because you don't know which food is legal or illegal until you look them up: It takes a while to get a hang of it. So, it'll take about three to six months to show an improvement. And, I don't have any comparison to show if RD or SCD will cure the inflamed, damaged, clogged GI better. However, I do believe your body will respond better to other treatments after your guts are healed a bit, either via SCD or any other gut healing diet.

Here is a chicken or the egg question, though. It is somewhat hard to eat the same thing everyday with SCD because you are cooking everything from scratch, and food doesn't last like it would processed food. Besides, people with yeast overgrowth should not be eating the leftovers anyway. So, do you develop allergy because you have eaten the same thing, let's say peanut butter everyday? Another words, do you develop allergy because you have 'over exposed' yourself, or you had developed a dysfunctional immune system due to a lack of digestion/absorption of other nutrients? The thing about allergy is that you can over come the allergy, or develop a higher tolerance once you strengthen your immune system/digestive sys. And, one can develop an allergy at any age. It will be depending on how strong one's immune function is. So, how do we do that is everyone's quest here. But, I'll say one important factor here is a use of enzyme(s). I think Jane would agree to that : )

Now, with our long list of 'flair up foods,' we are talking about food sensitivities, and not allergy. I assume it can develop into an allergy, let's say, if you keep eating a lot of peanut butter everyday. I think that is not the case with SCD. I still think SCD is a good place to start. Then, you can add new foods slowly, (like, in the RD manner) after you see improvements; such as good BM.

And, here is a good thing to remember. There isn't the one good diet that will fix all of our bad gut. It'll be depending on how bad, and what is causing the bad GI which could include multiple causes. That is why it's a "Viscious Cycle."

So, having said that: Mum2be--I don't think leaky gut and toxicity level is caused by one or the other, but both. And, I think you need to keep working at healing the gut and bringing the toxicity level down together.

Jane: Have you looked into PRE-biotics? And, I do agree that the healing goes way beyond SCD.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

LOL, just dawned on me it's not March anymore!


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Need to sub.

We are still not having any success (I've been no wheat, dairy, egg, soy, nuts, shellfish, tomatoes and beans along with probiotics x2 qd) and dd is still having typical reaction poop.

I am starting TED first thing tomorrow (wanted to make it through Easter dinner first). Just curious if anyone has any ideas when we might see an improvement? With wheat it tooks us right around a month before I saw the major, major turn around. I was going to do TED x2 weeks and then starting adding in 1 food at a time q 4 days...but was wondering if maybe I should try for longer? For those of you who have done this, how long did it take to see an improvement?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Some interesting thoughts on food allergies vs. food chemical sensitivity from this website: http://wisewitch.blogspot.com/search...max-results=50

There's a ton of interesting info on this blog if you have some free time.

" Some time ago I mentioned briefly that the only way to diagnose food allergies correctly is to use skin prick tests and blood tests, and that even these methods have problems. I want to expand on the problems a bit more.

The problem with skin prick tests is they just measure the redness of the skin when a food or chemical has been applied to it. This means that if you are given a skin prick of something that stimulates a histamine release or contains histamine, your skin will respond by reddening. Skin prick tests can therefore be dangerously misleading.

For example, if you are sensitive to salicylates, you may respond with a reddening of the skin when high-salicylate plant foods (such as spinach, tea, asparagus) are tested on your skin.

Serotonin can also stimulate inflammation, so if you are sensitive to serotonin, you may experience the same thing from various foods such as cheese, bananas, or beans.

Sensitivity to histamine will obviously result in skin reddening when things like beans, some cheeses, fish, or aged meats are tested on the skin.

Sulphites, folic acid, and a number of other food chemicals, vitamins, and minerals stimulate histamine release. Lectins in wheat, beans, potatoes, and various other plant foods also stimulate histamine release. You may react to these chemicals.

If you have high histamine levels to begin with and are prone to urticaria, you are likely to react to having your skin pricked in and of itself, whether food chemical irritants are added or not.

This means that you will be diagnosed with "allergies" to various random foods, when in fact you are not experiencing an allergic reaction at all, but food chemical sensitivities.

We know from the RPAH data that the majority of food reactions are actually caused by non-allergic food chemical sensitivities. The only way to correctly determine whether you have a genuine food allergy is to perform a specific, quantitative blood test of IgE levels when challenged. Immunoglobulin E is a subclass of antibodies produced by the immune system.

To complicate matters further, high histamine levels can actually raise IgE levels. This is why it is important to establish a baseline while one is not reacting to anything.

To clue you in to whether you are actually experiencing a genuine allergy or food chemical sensitivities, an allergy will usually be distinct and to only one or rarely two foods. Food chemical sensitivities will usually appear as multiple positive skin prick test results from different species, genera, or family - such as a test with positives for peas, asparagus, and beef."


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Writing a food journal is recommended for checking any food allergy/senstivities. This may also give you a clue for other health condition.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

hi everyone, a friend of mine is having trouble, so i thought i'd run things by you all.

her ds2 (3rd child) was fussy from birth, never went to sleep nursing, and spits up "flourescent green" (?bile), copious amounts. she eliminated wheat and dairy from her diet ~2mos ago (but using spelt for homemade bread/noodles, and recently bought a goat, so she's now adding in a bit of raw goat milk), and he improved a lot (can be put down a bit, can nurse to sleep, doesn't cry all day). they "homestead," so eat mostly whole foods (lots homegrown, including chickens, have a cow and now a goat and get local meat ?grassfed, etc.), home cooked, homebirth, no vax. when their cow went to get bred, they started to buy milk from the store, and the 2.5yo dd went back into diapers and got a bit of eczema, so she's a bit "atopic" as well. i think her dh had a history of eczema, but she hasn't had any indications of problems herself, although giving up wheat/dairy was excruciating, so maybe not as ok as she thought. i think baby is not eating yet, but scrounges from the floor (crawling since 4.5mos), and reacted very badly last month to eating a cheddar bunny he found, so all wheat is now banished from the house.

i suggested probiotics for all, trying to make kefir with the new goat's milk if she adds it back in, and mineral supplements. not sure if she's followed up, as $ are a big issue. she does keep him upright when carried (mostly on her back).

she's read up recently on reflux, and is getting worried because she saw that some babies deal with reflux by eating constantly and get big (which hers does/is), rather than the "failure to thrive" type. she's worried he may get "permanent damage" from the reflux if she doesn't get him on meds (?prilosec), but she's very western med averse, treats most things homeopathically, and her homeopath (not near her: she's in the boonies in the midwest) has been unavailable.

any thoughts i can pass on to her? links, especially, and are there options besides drugs? which supplements are most effective?

TIA!


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

About eating the same foods and developing an allergy--- Reading _NandPD_ there were groups that had dairy everyday (for example) so it seems like you could eat the same food everyday as long as you had a healed gut.

I am thinking of rotating in 2 of my allergy foods-dairy and eggs. I would only do dairy in the form of 24 hour yogurt though. I am trying to add more variety to my diet also. I cannot have gluten/wheat so I got some amaranth and buckwheat to try out so I don't overdo the brown rice. Along with some canned wild salmon and herring so I don't just eat chicken and beef. (I also got some pastured chicken livers!!) My inflammation in my joints seems to keep decreasing and my overall health inceasing even though I ate chocolate on Easter







. I just added 1t of butter oil a day for the anti-stiffness factor, ginger for inflammation and Herb Pharm Garlic for anti-fungal.

Off to read about digestive enzymes!
Jen


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

newcastlemama: I'm assuming you are aware of night shade veg with joint inflamation.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
newcastlemama: I'm assuming you are aware of night shade veg with joint inflamation.

Yep. Though I am not sure if taking those out has helped or the other stuff.

Do you have a good place to buy enzymes? I am interested in Houston Peptizyde and a protese one.

Thanks,
Jen


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

I know what you mean by







: I like to do one thing at a time, in stages. This is what I did for my gut. I took probiotics first thing in a morning, then Candadese (the same company of Candix, different dose,) and ViraStop three times a day between meals while I was detoxing (are you with me, so far?) By the time my accute sy of yeast was gone, I went with the Intro stage of SCD to get back on SCD fully.

Now, I am on Digest with meals and take fish oil, Vit C, CoQ10, garlic (cap and raw on my green salad with flaxseed oil), green juice, lots of lemon water, herb tea, etc.

This was for me to get my constipation out of the way, and get the regular BM, which I am now.

I keep food diary of when I took what, to avoid eating food with Candix, or take probiotics with enzyme, etc. I know it is







: , but I thought I would write what I did, so you can compare.

You may also want to read "Complete Candida Yeast Guidebook" by Jeanne Marie Martin, if you haven't.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Oh, about the enzyme; I bought Huston's from original source. We did not do well w/ Huston's, so my kids and I are on Enzymedica. I buy it from anyone who has free shipping.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Thanks greencat! I just erased my post because I decided to do:
1) Liver detox for about a month because I already have the Milk Thistle and my Naturopath thought this was important for me.
2) Candida Issues probably with Candex
3) Any food sensitvity issues after that with with peptizyde.

It can get crazy in my supplement cabinet! I am alo trying to use prationers as little as possible and try and figure it out myself so I can afford the supps!


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
 am trying to add more variety to my diet also. I cannot have gluten/wheat so I got some amaranth and buckwheat to try out so I don't overdo the brown rice. Along with some canned wild salmon and herring so I don't just eat chicken and beef. (I also got some pastured chicken livers!!)




millet is also good for variety. it cooks up like rice, about 1c millet to 2.5c water. my kids like it, too, more than the buckwheat. we rotate breakfast: eggs, oats, buckwheat, millet, and occasionally grits/polenta (corn) if we haven't had a lot of other corn products recently. we also eat millet as a dinner grain, to rotate with rice, barley, cassava (the root they make tapioca from, aka "yuca" to latinas) and potatoes/sweet potatoes. dh is indian: it's hard to skip rice around here, especially since we use rice pasta (tinkyada/TJ's).

i've never been very successful getting anyone to eat amaranth, unless i mix it with other grains or put sugar (=maple syrup/honey) on it. but then i'm not much of a cook. got any tasty amaranth recipes to share?


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

I have never had amaranth. I have it soaking on the counter and I was going to ass coconut oil, nuts, flaxseed, ect for breakfast. I can't have millet, but thank you for the suggestion...I reacted to many grains on my blood test.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I tried millet once, and it tasted like yuck to me.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Millet is kinda strange: cook too much it is mushy, too little and it is crunchy. But you can make a fabulous coconut millet pudding out of it. Give it another try, I think they are so different from what we are used to eating that it might just take time to adjust to it.

Amanrant was too small and grainy, not good for my DS until he gets older.

I LOVE quinoa, both the white and red kind. Easy to cook, and picks up flavors pretty well.

All these grains + removing all wheat/traditional flours/carbs has pretty much fixed my DH's GI symptoms, but his eczemas is whole other story...hence why I am so thankful for ALL the wonderful help on this forum.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
This is what I did for my gut. I took probiotics first thing in a morning, .

What did you take specifically? I am curious because I had a LONG discussion with our pediatrician about the Jarrow probiotics -- she is a fan of them, even though I and I think JaneS? didn't have good experiences with them.

Did you do any testing before you went with a certain product?


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Cello: I take Pro-Bio and/or Metagenic's Dairy Free because they are easily available, and I like the contents (lack of sugar, etc). I'll probably order some from SCD website in the future. I never looked for "a better one that may be better suited for our gut," since it was more important to keep in the mind how to cure gut holistically. The best probiotics is not going to do much unless you have other issues harmonizing in your body.

I think one of the key here is knowing how to use the probiotics in the best advantage to your gut. As I wrote before (as well as JaneS), the probiotics is not going to help you well unless your gut is somewhat functional/healthy, and hospitable for the probiotics to stay. This doesn't mean that you should not take the probiotics, but that is why I went with mild detox to correct my BM and doing other stuff before I got back on the probiotics (because I was so constipated, adding more 'stuff' wasn't helping but, indeed, wasting). I won't recommend detox for kids or Bfing mommies (unless you are under a supervision of an expert.) I never had to look into detox or chalation for my kids, since their poo is enviously beautiful, after we go on SCD and digestive enzyme.

We also eat probiotics with SCD yogurt, first thing in the am, on the empty stomach. Then, we wait 30min or so, before we eat anything else. Don't take enzyme with robotics together. If you are just introducing the probiotics, go slow to avoid die off.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Oh, regardeing the tests, I never tested for anything, although it probablly is a good idea. I figured, we would be doing this kind of diet anyway (with or without the test), I never bothered with a diagnosis but looking at my symptoms, and spend my money on probiotics, organic foods, etc.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Is pepsin the enzyme that breaks down casien? If not, what is it called? Thanks, Jen


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
Millet is kinda strange: cook too much it is mushy, too little and it is crunchy.

I LOVE quinoa, both the white and red kind. Easy to cook, and picks up flavors pretty well.

getting the water:grain ratio right for millet makes a difference too. when i get it right, it comes out soft, but fluffy, like long grain (not sticky/sushi) rice.

a teaspoon of maple syrup on millet with slightly mushy kidney beans (like they end up canned) is a pretty tasty meal/snack. then as you all get used to the taste, you can wean everybody off the syrup. i got the kids used to buckwheat at xmas'05 by using a little eggnog with the usual rice milk on top (







: but it worked).

we eat quinoa, too, but less often, because the kids haven't taken to it. i make tabouli with it. any recipe suggestions?


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## crazycat (Oct 20, 2004)

I have a question for those doing or not doing SCD for whatever reason ... I have my DS1 on SCD currently, since late February. So far I have seen NO improvement at all in his stools - still very foul smelling, mushy, float in the toilet, etc. I am still waiting for a shipment of SCDophilus that is supposedly on back order since the 25th of February. I now have a yogurt maker and some goat milk and some Progurt yogurt starter. I have not purchased any more acidophilus, hoping that my original order might actually ship soon.

Would my best bet then be the homemade yogurt? Is there something else that is preventing my son from improving, or is this what people have seen? We are only using stage 1 and 2 foods from the website, and he is tube fed so everything is cooked/pureed in order to go through his tube. I cannot find a source of illegal foods - I check everything carefully against the website. I think his eyes, skin and hair look somewhat better, but he has lost some weight so isn't looking as healthy in that department.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!!!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazycat* 
I have a question for those doing or not doing SCD for whatever reason ... I have my DS1 on SCD currently, since late February. So far I have seen NO improvement at all in his stools - still very foul smelling, mushy, float in the toilet, etc. I am still waiting for a shipment of SCDophilus that is supposedly on back order since the 25th of February. I now have a yogurt maker and some goat milk and some Progurt yogurt starter. I have not purchased any more acidophilus, hoping that my original order might actually ship soon.

Would my best bet then be the homemade yogurt? Is there something else that is preventing my son from improving, or is this what people have seen? We are only using stage 1 and 2 foods from the website, and he is tube fed so everything is cooked/pureed in order to go through his tube. I cannot find a source of illegal foods - I check everything carefully against the website. I think his eyes, skin and hair look somewhat better, but he has lost some weight so isn't looking as healthy in that department.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!!!

I think you really do need probiotics in order to get good results from the SCD. Is he on any probiotics at all? The yogurt would be the best probiotic if he tolerates dairy. Is he eating any foods that are common allergens?

The SCD does not work for everyone, though, or even most people from what I've seen on this group, so it may or may not help him. IMO if you add in the probiotics and can't tell that he's improving in a month or so the SCD probably isn't going to help.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
Is pepsin the enzyme that breaks down casien? If not, what is it called? Thanks, Jen

Peptizyde is the name of the enzyme formulation...I think the actual enzyme is called DPP-IV. AFAIK you have to order it from www.houstonni.com


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
Is pepsin the enzyme that breaks down casien? If not, what is it called? Thanks, Jen

DPP-IV is one of the enzymes that specifically breaks down casein and gluten so that the opioid-like peptides (beta-casomorphin and gluteomorphin) aren't available to latch onto the opioid receptors in both your gut and your brain.

I think Houston's has it? Anyhoo... Great Plains Laboratories has a test (not covered by insurance) that you can do (it's a pee in the bottle test) to see if you are sending opioid-like peptides into your pee. Which would indicate that you should either avoid gluten and casein or you should take DPP-IV enzymes.

GPL also recommends following that test up with an IgG panel for the basic allergens - people who can't breakdown casein and gluten also often show other allergy-type symptoms to those foods and possibly other foods.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
I tried millet once, and it tasted like yuck to me.

you need to add my hemp pesto to make millet yummy.

fill your food processor with some spinach and basil (half and half or so?)
add in 1 cup or so of hemp nuts
toss in some lemon juice/ACV
a dash of sea salt
a clove of garlic (or 2 or 3)
oil (a blend of flax/olive/hemp oil would be fine)

process the heck out of it.

when you chill it, if you get the proportions just right, you can actually use it as a butter. you can add it to millet or pasta. YUM. or spread it on rice crackers or flaxseed crackers. or on celery sticks. (warm it slightly for a veggie dip).

if you can't use hemp nuts, use some other soaked nut (walnuts are good). it works well too when you just very slightly blanch the spinach.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
I have never had amaranth. I have it soaking on the counter and I was going to ass coconut oil, nuts, flaxseed, ect for breakfast. I can't have millet, but thank you for the suggestion...I reacted to many grains on my blood test.

there's a multigrain (gluten free) porridge recipe in Vegetarian Mother's Cookbook... if i remember, i'll dig it out and post it though you might find it in the mothering.com recipe archives. i haven't tried it but it looks pretty yummy.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

crazycat: Often, the first improvement you see is on your skin, hair, nail and white part of the eyes, tongue, etc. The best part of SCD is the yogurt. I did not start the yogurt right away, since I was clumsy about making it (but, we were on probiotics.) Yet, with the yogurt, they progressed better. And, they really made progress when I added digestive enzyme later. The damaged gut heals slowly, and everyone heals differently, depends on how badly damaged it is, and how much you comply with SCD guide. Some times, the progress you have made is so minute; you won't see it until you get off the SCD. Have a faith, and you will know when you need to take your son off the SCD. If you have probiotics, mix it in the milk/nut milk and start giving him some. Follow the guide line as close as you can. Also, if you give him too much protein, he will loose weight faster. However, if he is not getting weak or sick, I would be patient and let his body do its own thing. I recommend keeping food diary, so you can see the progress, what you may have done right/wrong, etc.

Regarding the smelly poo, if this is a change you see after you put him on the SCD, it is not necessary a bad thing. Especially with the intro stage, his gut is getting read of bad bacteria and undigested foods from previous. And, it can stink up your whole house. You will have a better success if you follow the intro stage because you are 'clansing' the gunk before you get on the main SCD manu. You can also re-do the intro stage when ever you think he is not digesting the food well, etc. Keep making the observation about what is coming out, and how. Poo will tell you a lot of what is going on in the gut. The smelly poo will go away as his gut heals. If you add some digestive enzyme, it will also break down the bad bacteria, etc which are protein.

Illegal food lists are here:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...llegal_a-c.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

New post in the Cheat Sheet if you are are not subscribed to it.

For anyone who tries Houston's Peptizyde, I would recommend the AFP version without pineapple/papaya enzymes... DS reacted badly to those as he is highly allergic to pineapple.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I seem to recall reading somewhere that it was around 6 or 7, but I have no idea where I found that.

That is when the immune systems matures to be adult like ... and the gut flora finally completes the shift from bifido-dominent as a babe to an adult's version too. Hmmm, all that makes you think!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Aaah! I didn't know this! So the $165 probiotics I've been taking probably aren't doing anything...







:







: And dd's isn't either? I was under the impression that mucus in poop means the gut is inflamed. She has lots of mucus!

In other news, I just got my hair analysis results in for nutrient/toxic elements. It's all very interesting and I'm not quite sure if the leaky gut can cause high levels of these, or if high levels can cause leaky gut/poor digestion.

Anyway, here is my post about it. If anyone has any input, I'm all ears!!

Not necessarily. Probiotics will help reduce inflammation and increase immune cells. Whether they can heal the gut alone while eating foods you are allergic to... well that was not our experience. That is the SCD position that I do not agree with. In animal studies achieving oral tolerance via B. Infantis was only possible in neonates. With grown animals it didn't work.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
Jane: Have you looked into PRE-biotics?

After bad experiences many times with FOS, I abandoned them! Maybe I wasn't doing something right but I much preferred kefir.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazycat* 
I have a question for those doing or not doing SCD for whatever reason ... I have my DS1 on SCD currently, since late February. So far I have seen NO improvement at all in his stools - still very foul smelling, mushy, float in the toilet, etc. I am still waiting for a shipment of SCDophilus that is supposedly on back order since the 25th of February. I now have a yogurt maker and some goat milk and some Progurt yogurt starter. I have not purchased any more acidophilus, hoping that my original order might actually ship soon.

Would my best bet then be the homemade yogurt? Is there something else that is preventing my son from improving, or is this what people have seen? We are only using stage 1 and 2 foods from the website, and he is tube fed so everything is cooked/pureed in order to go through his tube. I cannot find a source of illegal foods - I check everything carefully against the website. I think his eyes, skin and hair look somewhat better, but he has lost some weight so isn't looking as healthy in that department.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!!!

This was our experience before we did allergy testing... I would go that route.

Definitely get some probiotics, both they and digestive enzymes vastly mediated the effects of DS eating allergens (proven when we had to stop both twice for stool testing, was not pretty).

I would do a super strain of acidophilus: Natren's MegaDophilus is DDS-1 without FOS.

And after much research and experience, I think the SCD is all wrong about bifidobacteria supplementation, most especially in young children. DS is using Natren's Life Start sometimes just the powder, sometimes cultured in yogurt, but dairy is one of the few foods he is not allergic to.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
All these grains + removing all wheat/traditional flours/carbs has pretty much fixed my DH's GI symptoms, but his eczemas is whole other story...hence why I am so thankful for ALL the wonderful help on this forum.

With DS his eczema patches only flare when he eats a food he is highly allergic to, it's a very true barometer. Along with bullseye rash around rectum.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
hi everyone, a friend of mine is having trouble, so i thought i'd run things by you all.

her ds2 (3rd child) was fussy from birth, never went to sleep nursing, and spits up "flourescent green" (?bile), copious amounts. she eliminated wheat and dairy from her diet ~2mos ago (but using spelt for homemade bread/noodles, and recently bought a goat, so she's now adding in a bit of raw goat milk), and he improved a lot (can be put down a bit, can nurse to sleep, doesn't cry all day). they "homestead," so eat mostly whole foods (lots homegrown, including chickens, have a cow and now a goat and get local meat ?grassfed, etc.), home cooked, homebirth, no vax. when their cow went to get bred, they started to buy milk from the store, and the 2.5yo dd went back into diapers and got a bit of eczema, so she's a bit "atopic" as well. i think her dh had a history of eczema, but she hasn't had any indications of problems herself, although giving up wheat/dairy was excruciating, so maybe not as ok as she thought. i think baby is not eating yet, but scrounges from the floor (crawling since 4.5mos), and reacted very badly last month to eating a cheddar bunny he found, so all wheat is now banished from the house.

i suggested probiotics for all, trying to make kefir with the new goat's milk if she adds it back in, and mineral supplements. not sure if she's followed up, as $ are a big issue. she does keep him upright when carried (mostly on her back).

she's read up recently on reflux, and is getting worried because she saw that some babies deal with reflux by eating constantly and get big (which hers does/is), rather than the "failure to thrive" type. she's worried he may get "permanent damage" from the reflux if she doesn't get him on meds (?prilosec), but she's very western med averse, treats most things homeopathically, and her homeopath (not near her: she's in the boonies in the midwest) has been unavailable.

any thoughts i can pass on to her? links, especially, and are there options besides drugs? which supplements are most effective?

TIA!

Bifidobacteria for the babe for the allergies and reflux.... meds will not cure anything. The toddler probably shouldn't have pasteurized milk. She might get some good ideas from the Lipski book I just posted about in the Cheat Sheet.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

JaneS: Thanks for listing of the new book. May be this is the answer that I was looking for.

With beautiful poops and eczema free skin, we are so ready to venture out, and go *beyond SCD*.

I just wish Amazon was a library, like Netflix...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

DD and I have been doing the Failsafe elimination diet for 8 days. I can't say I've really noticed any changes in either of us, except that her eczema's getting worse. Her arms have turned red a couple of times, though, which has only ever happened one time before this. The only thing I can think of that could have caused it is fragrance--both days my younger brother held her, and he wears cologne. Either that or she's reacting to me eating more potatoes, although I've been eating them for a while and I didn't notice any difference in her eczema before. If it is the cologne, it's pretty much a given that she does have problems with salicylates since fragrances are phenols and salicylates are phenols, also.

I've been having major digestive problems with grains since I stopped all fermented foods/drinks. I got bloating or an upset stomach & diarrhea with unsoaked brown rice, millet, buckwheat, and wild rice. I did okay with white rice, but since I started the Failsafe diet and stopped taking digestive enzymes, I can't handle white rice, either. It seems like the more I try to heal us, the worse I make things. DH is not happy about my new IBS symptoms. He wants me to stop all the diets and supplements and go back to eating regular foods. Except that there's no "regular foods" I can eat now between the IBS symptoms and DD's food intolerances...I am pretty much off all supplements now except Betaine HCL, and I do want to add enzymes again eventually (the ones I have now are not Failsafe). I'm doing some experimenting with oxalates and lectins while I do Failsafe, and if I don't see some positive changes with all of those things, I'm giving up on healing the gut before I make things any worse. I'll just eat whatever foods DD & I tolerate and hope my digestive symptoms go away and she eventually outgrows the eczema and food intolerances.

On a brighter note, though, I did go out and buy some Culturelle yesterday and took one of those between lunch & dinner. I had white rice with lunch and had diarrhea afterwards. I had white rice again with dinner and was totally fine except a bit of stomach rumbling during the night! (I've had problems with white rice every other time I've had it since I started Failsafe except the very first time.) I took enzymes with both meals, so...either I have IBS that comes and goes, or the probiotics really do make a huge difference.

JaneS--thank you so much for the "Sleepless in America" book recommendation. It has really made a difference in DD's sleep--I am able to get her down for naps and bedtime with much less effort now, and when she doesn't go down, I can usually figure out the cause which helps with my frustration level. Now if I can just figure out how to eliminate the night wakings...


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

caedmyn - had you had IBS symptoms before you started down this path? i know you're trying failsafe ,but what about bringing back a fermented beverage that you've also inocculated with culturelle?


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Bifidobacteria for the babe for the allergies and reflux.... meds will not cure anything. The toddler probably shouldn't have pasteurized milk. She might get some good ideas from the Lipski book I just posted about in the Cheat Sheet.

thanks, jane, i passed on the info and the link. she had stopped the pasteurized milk when she made the connection of the onset of her dd's sx coinciding with the cow leaving.

looks like a book i should find and skim/buy myself, since a loose rotation is the name of the game around here.


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## lastrid (Jan 20, 2007)

I just started my five month old on Solaray Babylife (which is bifidus) for his "colic." Now I'm reading about I. reuteri for helping colic. Should I try both or just stick with the bifidus for now?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
caedmyn - had you had IBS symptoms before you started down this path? i know you're trying failsafe ,but what about bringing back a fermented beverage that you've also inocculated with culturelle?

Before I started trying to heal the gut I had really bad gas and some occasional constipation, but nothing like this. I could eat unsoaked whole wheat without problems (other than the gas). I can't do anything fermented on the elimination diet or it would defeat the entire purpose of the elimination diet since fermented stuff is so high in amines. I'm going to keep taking the Culturelle for now and hope things improve (or at least don't get any worse). Water kefir is definitely right at the top of things to add back in after the elimination diet, so if I can just hold out for another 3 weeks, hopefully I can start doing some more "healing" things.


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## crazycat (Oct 20, 2004)

Thanks everyone for your responses re: my son and SCD. I did pick up some acidophilus at the health food store - I hope it is "legal" - I will switch to SCDophilus as soon as it comes. I also started my first batch of goat yogurt tonight, so it should be ready by Saturday after it goes through the 24 hours in the yogurt maker and then cools in the fridge. Hopefully it turns out - I am also hoping to convince my younger son to try it, but don't expect that he will since he has refused all dairy whether cow or goat so far.

Thanks again!


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Thanks for the enzyme info. I tried 24 hour yogurt for breakfast 3 days ago. Later that day and the next day I had bloating and mucous in stools







I am figuring it was the dairy. Maybe in a few more months with the enzymes I will have more success.

Caedmyn-I am sorry things are so complicated. Is there a diet you felt the best on overall?


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Haven't had much time to check in here, but wanted you all to see this new supplement my ND found for leaky guts. She's putting her husband on it and wants me to get some too. It's like a bunch of supplements in one! This is the cheapest I've found it too.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

If I'm making fermented veggies, but a concerned about whey, should I just use the salt?

If kids reacts to yeast, do you think Kifer is a way to go?


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
If I'm making fermented veggies, but a concerned about whey, should I just use the salt?

If kids reacts to yeast, do you think Kifer is a way to go?

Yes. You can just use more salt.

As far as I know there are good yeasts in kefir. You could just try it out.I have heard of people with yeast (candida) problems being helped by kefirs so ir would probably be fine.

Jen

Jen


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

newcastlemama: O.K. Now, I have the veggie pickler, I'm gonna make it with salt. My DD5 never had problem with whey, but my DS3 does. Whey is the one different food that he reacts (in eczema, cry outs, night crying, etc.) from his sis. I had to make nut milk yogurt for my DS because he couldn't tolerate the goat's. And, he won't eat the tart yogurt. Now he can eat goat's, but still eats nut milk yogurt because he likes it. My DD never had problem with goat yogurt from the beginning of my yogurt making saga (I don't know if the age difference is a factor here.) May be I should be looking into the kind of probiotics that are better suited for tots. (or find JaneS on this issue somewhere.) Good luck with your enzyme. Different kind, manufacture, dose and timing can be very







: , but when you find what is best serving to you, your gut will do much better







Keeping the food/enzyme log will help you a lot.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Greencat--Can you tell me how you make the nut milk yogurt? I have a dehydrator BTW that I make dairy yogurt for my family with. Thanks, Jen


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## crazycat (Oct 20, 2004)

Hi again everyone,

I have another question, this time on my 2-yo DS. He recently underwent blood and stool testing for bacteria, parasites, and celiac disease. He has been having mucus filled stools for 4-5 weeks now. He is dairy intolerant but no other obvious allergies or intolerances. All the tests have come back normal to this point - just waiting on a couple of more stool cultures. I have started him on probiotics.

The celiac testing was both for the stools and because he has tested anemic in the past, and he is quite small - when he was younger he was in the 75th percentile for height/weight and he has gradually dropped down to about the 10th. He does not look malnourished, just petite and no belly fat at all, but does look healthy otherwise to me, just maybe a little pale, which could be from our lack of outside time due to the weather. He also has pretty significant asthma, for which he takes daily steroid nebulizer treatments.

The stools are not normalizing. So far no other suggestions from our ped - when I asked the nurse what they thought since everything looks good so far she just said she didn't know.

Any suggestions or ideas?

Thanks!!


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Jen: I think nut milk yogurt is also a great alternative to go-yo. This is an instruction I wrote for my husband, just incase I am not able to cook for my son. So, if anything is not clear, ask me questions, please.

In the dehydrator, you may want to keep the cooking thermometer in the milk while culturing. Use mine as a guide: You will find your way to make it in the best way that works for you. SCD web site has their instruction, but it never worked for me. You may want to check it out, to get the better understanding.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Nut Milk Yogurt

It is best to use utensils that were in the dishwasher, or boil for 10min.

1.5L Pyrex cooking pot and a lid
A large, cotton dish cloth
Stainless cooking spoon
Cooking thermometer
1/8t. measuring spoon
Timer
Blender
Ice

2/3 C Sliced, Blanched Almond
2/3 C Cashew nuts
4C filtered water
Optional few Pine nuts
1/8sp Pro-Gurt

Have a dish cloth over a Pyrex cooking pot
Put nuts and water in a blender for 8min. to make nut milk.
Pour the nut milk in the pot, over the dish cloth.
Gently squeeze all the milk as you twist the top--Throw the nuts out

Put the cooking thermometer in the pot, and heat the milk with medium-high heat.
Slowly boil the nut milk to the boiling point as you stair often with the spoon.

Take the pot out of the heat as soon as it reaches the boiling point. Do not let it burn. Keep the cooking thermometer and the spoon in the pot (until you are ready to put the pot in the oven.)

Let it cool to reach 64-77F. Keep the lid on while you cool it. You may do this with ice water in the sink to shorten the time of cooling. Stir before you read the temperature.

Set the oven temperature at 105F (Slightly lower than the goat milk.)

When cooked milk is in the appropriate temperature, take the Pro-Gurt out of the refrigerator, and sprinkle 1/8spoon of it. Then, gently stir. Do not mix too much where live culture does not like to be disturbed: The yogurt will not sit well.

Cover the pot with Saran Wrap. Write the time you put the cooked milk in the oven on the Saran Wrap. Incubate without disturbing the milk for 8hours.

After the incubation, cool it in the refrigerator over night (without disturbing.)


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

JaneS, I want to thank you for replying to my questions about what you did to heal (in the March thread, I am too lazy to dig for that now and try to quote it). We were out of town for quite a while and it has taken me a few days to catch up with this thread again.
We are very, very sure that DD's eczema is influenced by polution to some extent. Every time we leave the city (which is very poluted) she does better. Still has eczema and obviously reacts to foods, but not nearly as bad. Thankfully we are moving to the countryside within a month or so and I think the clean air will give her immune system a bit of a break and maybe a chance to heal more. We are also doing different things diet wise. While we were out of town I gave up on the TED. And dd looked better than when I was on it. I just did more veggies and added some yak (and I am cooking with animal fat now, whatever I have from bone broth. It is actually very yummy). Now I am going to do a rotation diet and if that doesn't work, then the SCD. With moving and not having the book yet it will be easier to do a rotation diet. We are also in the process of changing our diets to more NT foods, which, with the rotation diet will be enough for now. Our enzymes also arrived and probiotics will hopefully be here soon.
I have to say that I feel SO much better with more food than on the TED. More energy, emotionally more stable and sleeping better. And dd has been sleeping better as well. It is also better to think about working towards healing rather than just avoidance. For the first time in months I feel hopeful.
Thank you ladies for all your info. I don't post much, but I learn a lot from just reading.


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

I'm so disappointed. I've been on TED x1 week now and have been anxiously awaiting dd to have a poopy diaper to see if there has been any change. She had a HUGE diaper this morning = huge reaction diaper that was just as bad if not worse than what she usually has














:


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 

we eat quinoa, too, but less often, because the kids haven't taken to it. i make tabouli with it. any recipe suggestions?

I will have to try your trick with the millet.

Honestly, I used it as I would use rice. I grew up on rice, so anything I make for him, I have just learned to substitute the quinoa instead of rice, and he eats it. He seems to like the quinoa, dill, lima bean, and ground meat mixture that I make. But again, my palate is not what I find in most American diets.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Unless I am misunderstanding, most of you have had yucky poop/eczema problems, right?

Has anyone had issues where the poop looked bad, but there has never been eczema, and the child was not fussy/cranky all the time to indicate that there was an issue?


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 

Illegal food lists are here:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...llegal_a-c.htm

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the SCD diet: how can a banana be on the diet? It is such a high sugar food. DS does not tollerate is bananas, no matter how ripe they, which makes sense to me.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the SCD diet: how can a banana be on the diet? It is such a high sugar food. DS does not tollerate is bananas, no matter how ripe they, which makes sense to me.

could it be a real allergy? those who are allergic to latex also have cross-reactions to other things. see http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/b...y?OpenDocument


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
I'm so disappointed. I've been on TED x1 week now and have been anxiously awaiting dd to have a poopy diaper to see if there has been any change. She had a HUGE diaper this morning = huge reaction diaper that was just as bad if not worse than what she usually has














:


I'm so sorry for you. Hugggs. If you read through some of the older posts, you will see some moms had the same experience, with TED not helping out, but making some reactions even more visible. I did TED with my ds, and it did nothing for us short of adding more stress to our lives. I think I posted this before, but I just gave it time and it cleared up on its own, since it was the gentian violet IMHO that started the whole mess.

I am doing a rotation diet right now for my DH(Thanks 2 JaneS







, cut out all grains(and I mean ALL), starches, etc -- and it is helping. It was so so so so hard to get him to not eat carbs with every meal for a week, but once he was how much better the eczemas was, he is actually pushing for it more








Rotation diets are not easy by any means, and we do not follow it hard and fast, but it is doable with a bit of planning.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
could it be a real allergy? those who are allergic to latex also have cross-reactions to other things. see http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/b...y?OpenDocument

Of all the solids we have introduced(and stupidly it was one of the first ones we did), it is the only food he does not tolerate, even in a small amount. He becomes so constipated that he is miserable for several days. I am keeping my fingers crossed that we don't find other cross-reactions.


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## viking (Mar 2, 2007)

sorry to jump in like this without reading all posts first.

i am *trying* to heal my gut.
i have started to:
eat some commercial probiotics
doing my first sprouts these days
make all food from scratch
eat raw vegetables and fruit
get my first delievery of ecological frutis and vegs in a couple of days

my plan is to go on a rawfood diet for as long time as it takes to heal my gut.
i suspect my symptoms to worsen before i get better.
my energylevel is very low and i feel like crap, and i dont feel like i prepared enough to do a detox properly. so i propone.

in the meanwhile i try to figure out exactly was is wrong with me. today one of my symptoms are really bad, worse then in months. and im desperate to understand what is going on.

my health-history is long as a novel, so i dont see how i could share it in few and informative words.

i've got a picture of this specific symptom tho, and my questions is simply:
*is it ok if i post url to an image, so you can have a look and tell me if you have ever seen it before or if you get any thoughts out of it at all?*

(i do meet with doctors frequently so they are aware of this. they just dont know what it is, and focus on other problems. ct and ultrasound has been done on good days when the symptom is not present. so doctors look at me strangely, and i have to do further research myself)

(im sorry my posts always get so long even when im just trying to ask a simple question ...







: )


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
Unless I am misunderstanding, most of you have had yucky poop/eczema problems, right?

Has anyone had issues where the poop looked bad, but there has never been eczema, and the child was not fussy/cranky all the time to indicate that there was an issue?

Dd only had fussy/cranky stuff with wheat but I cut that out 4 months ago and since then she has only had the bad poop problem.


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
I'm so sorry for you. Hugggs. If you read through some of the older posts, you will see some moms had the same experience, with TED not helping out, but making some reactions even more visible. I did TED with my ds, and it did nothing for us short of adding more stress to our lives. I think I posted this before, but I just gave it time and it cleared up on its own, since it was the gentian violet IMHO that started the whole mess.

I am doing a rotation diet right now for my DH(Thanks 2 JaneS







, cut out all grains(and I mean ALL), starches, etc -- and it is helping. It was so so so so hard to get him to not eat carbs with every meal for a week, but once he was how much better the eczemas was, he is actually pushing for it more








Rotation diets are not easy by any means, and we do not follow it hard and fast, but it is doable with a bit of planning.

Do you remember which month those posts are in? There are so many that I get overwhelmed!

There have been times when I've thought about just letting it go and just staying with the no wheat but I do worry about the long-term damage that could cause her. I would really love for everything to take a turn for the better before we start thinking about starting her on solids.

I think that the most time I'm going to give TED is a month (if I make it that far because it is making me crazy). We are also planning a trip to a naturopath and a craniosacral adjustment so maybe those will also provide some insight.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the SCD diet: how can a banana be on the diet? It is such a high sugar food. DS does not tollerate is bananas, no matter how ripe they, which makes sense to me.

The SCD eliminates starches, not sugars per se. Pretty much all fruits are legal, and honey is, too. Bananas are supposed to be constipating, although I'm not sure why.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
Unless I am misunderstanding, most of you have had yucky poop/eczema problems, right?

Has anyone had issues where the poop looked bad, but there has never been eczema, and the child was not fussy/cranky all the time to indicate that there was an issue?

My DD had both poop issues and eczema, but she's always been a happy, mellow baby.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *viking* 
sorry to jump in like this without reading all posts first.

i am *trying* to heal my gut.
i have started to:
eat some commercial probiotics
doing my first sprouts these days
make all food from scratch
eat raw vegetables and fruit
get my first delievery of ecological frutis and vegs in a couple of days

my plan is to go on a rawfood diet for as long time as it takes to heal my gut.
i suspect my symptoms to worsen before i get better.
my energylevel is very low and i feel like crap, and i dont feel like i prepared enough to do a detox properly. so i propone.

in the meanwhile i try to figure out exactly was is wrong with me. today one of my symptoms are really bad, worse then in months. and im desperate to understand what is going on.

my health-history is long as a novel, so i dont see how i could share it in few and informative words.

i've got a picture of this specific symptom tho, and my questions is simply:
*is it ok if i post url to an image, so you can have a look and tell me if you have ever seen it before or if you get any thoughts out of it at all?*

(i do meet with doctors frequently so they are aware of this. they just dont know what it is, and focus on other problems. ct and ultrasound has been done on good days when the symptom is not present. so doctors look at me strangely, and i have to do further research myself)

(im sorry my posts always get so long even when im just trying to ask a simple question ...







: )

You can post a URL...what are your symptoms? IMHO a raw food diet is going to be pretty hard on a damaged gut as raw foods aren't particularly easy to digest, especially sprouts. Meats and fats are actually the easiest foods to digest, and then well-cooked fruits and veggies (some veggies, anyway), and then well-cooked soaked grains. Cooking from scratch and taking probiotics (or even better in most cases, probiotic foods like kefir or sauerkraut) are good steps to take.


----------



## viking (Mar 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
You can post a URL...what are your symptoms? IMHO a raw food diet is going to be pretty hard on a damaged gut as raw foods aren't particularly easy to digest, especially sprouts. Meats and fats are actually the easiest foods to digest, and then well-cooked fruits and veggies (some veggies, anyway), and then well-cooked soaked grains. Cooking from scratch and taking probiotics (or even better in most cases, probiotic foods like kefir or sauerkraut) are good steps to take.

my chronic everyday-symptoms:
-fatigued - very low energy level
-feeling unwell
-often bloat after meals
-gassy
-loose bowel movements
-bowels roaring, gurgling, twisting(? feels like), cramping(? feels like). feeling of big pockets of air moving around. or feeling filled with water that ripples.
-when i lay on the side it feels and sounds like it trickles. it does not like it.
-react almost to all foods. have not found any concistensy.
-sometimes heavy pulse in stomach.
-greyish coated tounge (better now that i started swishing mouth with oliveoil and brushing with water only)
plus plus

my diet:
-fruits like apple, orange, banana, grapes, kiwi, pear (raw. the concept of cooking fruit is new and strange to me)
-vegetables like carrot, cauliflower, broccoli, kohlrabi, bell pepper, tomato, squash, lettuce, cucumber, onions, garlic, chili, celeryroot, leek. raw and cooked.
-wholemeal bread, rice, potatoes, pasta
-dairy like butter, cheese, yoghurt, milk, creme fraiche
-seafood like mackarel, trout, salmon, cod, prawns, crabs, mussel
-pork, chicken and beef
-oliveoil, rapeseedoil, soy sauce

from time to time my symptoms worsen.
like yesterday and today:
feverish
dazed and dizzy
very vey uncomfortable abdomen. varies from feeling like starving, to being too full. more painful gut movement and noises then usual.
bowel movement actually quite fine
headache
no apetite at all
and ... under my left ribs - a kinda chronic bump of uknown origins swells beyond its 'normal' size (click for picture). (i am not as thin as it looks, i am 'sucking my stomach in' to emphasize the bump).

my symptoms worsen as it swells. or the other way around. i dont know.
then suddenly it reaches a peak
and everything returns back to my stable 'normal' everyday-symptoms.

i am feeling very contaminated and out of balance. my theory the last couple of years is that something is disturbing my digestsystem and my energydrain may come from internal battles going on between immunsystem and toxins/viruses.

(ive been sick for 10+years. western medicine have no clue, and are starting to admit they actually may have caused this.)

any thoughts?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

viking--you might try eliminating grains and potatoes for a starter, as they can all be hard to digest and cause IBS-type symptoms. Whole grains are particularly difficult to digest but I've been having problems with white rice and potatoes as well. The Specific Carbohydrate Diet might be something for you to look at. www.pecanbread.com www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info
www.breakingtheviciouscycle.com


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Whoa Viking... dr's have no idea about the bump? How awful! have you had an ultrasound or something on it? What do you think caused your problems? My causes were multiple antibx including 2 weeks of







Cipro, and lots of amalgam fillings.

Have you tried digestive enzymes? With and between meals. See Yeast/Bacteria section and other sections at www.enzymestuff.com


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Viking, you may also consider some testing, you can read about in the HTG Cheat Sheet stickied at the top of this forum.


----------



## viking (Mar 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
The Specific Carbohydrate Diet might be something for you to look at. www.pecanbread.com www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info
www.breakingtheviciouscycle.com


Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Have you tried digestive enzymes? With and between meals. See Yeast/Bacteria section and other sections at www.enzymestuff.com


Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Viking, you may also consider some testing, you can read about in the HTG Cheat Sheet stickied at the top of this forum.

thank you. i will read your urls tonight









i'm afraid of hijacking this thread,
so i will write a more thorough post in a new thread.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *viking* 
thank you. i will read your urls tonight









i'm afraid of hijacking this thread,
so i will write a more thorough post in a new thread.

That's what this thread is for--questions! You probably have a better chance of getting replies here than on a separate thread.


----------



## viking (Mar 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
That's what this thread is for--questions! You probably have a better chance of getting replies here than on a separate thread.

ops.
allready posted new thread with additional information here.


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## motocita (Oct 31, 2004)

janeS,

is there somewhere online where i can read about the rotation diet you're doing? my daughter and i are doing SCD right now, it's been 3.5 months and it's going well. BUT, i really miss my old foods. and she is having solid stools now and the eczema is nearly gone, so i wonder if we could do a rotation diet soon. we're pretty limited on SCD because she doesn't tolerate honey nor dairy yet.

i would also love to know how far did your son's healing progress before you changed from SCD to RD? does he have yeast overgrowth? that's what we have.

thanks


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *motocita* 
janeS, is there somewhere online where i can read about the rotation diet you're doing?

If you look at the Healing the Gut cheat sheet, Jane just posted a/her rotation diet (post 29 I think)








mamas. Ive been lurking, thought Id say hi. I needed a break, as you all have mentioned.

Im plugging along. I dont know what's going on with the yeast, my original symptoms are gone, but I have some new (specifically some labial wierdness - not itch or burn exactly, and not every day), and the disappearance of the old symptoms happened since cheating a couple times a week. My gerd symptoms are still going - they improved with Kombucha for awhile and then got bad again. I have done a lot of research and am convinced it is a leaky gut issue. I also think it could be yeast related (as there is some anecdotal evidence on the web of people curing their gerd by treating their yeast ... but Id think that the gerd would not have started WHILE treating yeast. I just dont know







: When I cheat, nothing changing; i.e. I dont have worse symptoms, and actually, my original yeast stuff got markedly better when I started eating grains, however, I know that grains are hard on the gut so I mostly avoid them to help heal the gerd

Anyway, I have read a lot of stuff about people managing their gerd symptoms with stuff that is all gut related (kefir, enzymes, probiotics ...) so Im thinking it can be healed.

The other piece I have going on is meditation. There is also some significant anecdotal evidence that meditation can heal the gut, as opposed to manage symptoms. Im 3 mos in to that. My gerd symptoms have improved in that time but its so hard to tell what is doing what. The meditation definitely helps with the stress of managing all this, and stress is definitely not good for the gut.

I took enzymes (DigestGold) for a month and didnt notice any difference. I am thinking of going back on them for longer and see. Anyone recomend another that is maybe a little cheaper (I have found DG for $40 for 120caps)

Happy Monday

Jess


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
If you look at the Healing the Gut cheat sheet, Jane just posted a/her rotation diet (post 29 I think)








mamas. Ive been lurking, thought Id say hi. I needed a break, as you all have mentioned.

Im plugging along. I dont know what's going on with the yeast, my original symptoms are gone, but I have some new (specifically some labial wierdness - not itch or burn exactly, and not every day), and the disappearance of the old symptoms happened since cheating a couple times a week. My gerd symptoms are still going - they improved with Kombucha for awhile and then got bad again. I have done a lot of research and am convinced it is a leaky gut issue. I also think it could be yeast related (as there is some anecdotal evidence on the web of people curing their gerd by treating their yeast ... but Id think that the gerd would not have started WHILE treating yeast. I just dont know







: When I cheat, nothing changing; i.e. I dont have worse symptoms, and actually, my original yeast stuff got markedly better when I started eating grains, however, I know that grains are hard on the gut so I mostly avoid them to help heal the gerd

Anyway, I have read a lot of stuff about people managing their gerd symptoms with stuff that is all gut related (kefir, enzymes, probiotics ...) so Im thinking it can be healed.

The other piece I have going on is meditation. There is also some significant anecdotal evidence that meditation can heal the gut, as opposed to manage symptoms. Im 3 mos in to that. My gerd symptoms have improved in that time but its so hard to tell what is doing what. The meditation definitely helps with the stress of managing all this, and stress is definitely not good for the gut.

I took enzymes (DigestGold) for a month and didnt notice any difference. I am thinking of going back on them for longer and see. Anyone recomend another that is maybe a little cheaper (I have found DG for $40 for 120caps)

Happy Monday

Jess

www.throppsnutrition.com They have two different enzyme formulations. One is around $16 for 90 caps and the other is around $55 for...270 caps, I think.

Have you followed the discussion about food chemical sensitivites at all? Even if you don't have food chemical sensitivites the Failsafe diet might help you heal. www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.com When I started the elimination diet I was taking 3 648 mg Betaine HCL tablets with a large meal and 2 with a smaller meal. 8 days into the elimination diet I didn't need the Betaine HCL anymore...and I'd been taking it for 5 months. So...whether or not we have food chemical sensitivities, it obviously did something, perhaps taking enough of a load off my liver for my stomach acid to finally normalize. Now if I can only figure out how to fix the rest of my digestion problems.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

OK, ladies, I need your best healing-the-gut recommendations. I have developed IBS (or something) and I have 2.5 months to get it healed, or to the point where I can eat reasonably normally. I promised my DH that I would be done with diets and supplements when he back from his deployment the 1st of July, and right now things are so bad that I can't even eat any starches without having diarrhea. DH is extremely unhappy and wants me to go back to eating "normal" foods (none of which I can actually eat) and stop taking all supplements. He basically said I can take whatever supplements but I better be done with the supplements and eating a regular diet by the time he gets back or he will be very upset. He's not happy that a year of trying to heal the gut has essentially made things worse (probably mostly due to my own stupidity in overeating, but that's another story).

So...at this point I am still doing the Failsafe elimination diet. I've also eliminated all non-SCD foods (how ironic, now I'm coming back to the SCD). So I'm eating beef, ghee, celery, brussel sprouts, cabbage, leeks, rutabagas, garlic, celery, and pears. I'm going to start back on Enzymedica enzymes which don't contain any fillers...I stopped my enzymes for the elimination diet because they contain non-Failsafe ingredients, big mistake. I'm also planning on getting the probiotic VSL#3, which is super expensive but been proven effective for IBS and digestive disorders. It contains 450 billion CFU's of good bacteria per dose, so it ought to be pretty effective I hope, although I'm not sure if it's Failsafe or not. I was also thinking about getting some Intestinew or else plain l-glutamine. And I'm debating about whether to consult a naturopath.

I can't do bone broths on the elimination diet but that will be the first thing I add back in when I get done with the elimination diet in a couple of weeks.

So...suggestions, thoughts, anything, ladies?

DD's eczema is starting to look better again, but I'm not holding my breath on it going away completely. If Failsafe doesn't help her I'm done trying to heal her--I've done everything I can for her. She doesn't have any major issues at this point, even her poop is pretty good. She just has eczema and food allergies and cradle cap and butt-crack diaper rash and little bumps all over her torso. Hopefully she'll outgrow all of that, I guess.


----------



## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

what are everyone's thoughts on allergy testing in a 6 month old? do they always do this by skin prick testing? i am thisclose to taking dd in to someone who can do it but i've heard varying opinions on that it won't pick up everything but i keep thinking even if it sheds a teeny tiny little bit of light on this whole situation then i'm up for it because NOTHING is improving


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

caedmyn - do you think you've come full circle? are you starting to have old symptoms that you initially started with? or are these totally new ones? just trying to better understand


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
what are everyone's thoughts on allergy testing in a 6 month old? do they always do this by skin prick testing? i am thisclose to taking dd in to someone who can do it but i've heard varying opinions on that it won't pick up everything but i keep thinking even if it sheds a teeny tiny little bit of light on this whole situation then i'm up for it because NOTHING is improving










don't waste your time with skinprick testing. i'd go for a blood draw and do RAST testing. but keep in mind that most IgE testing is not really reliable until a child is between 5 and 9 yrs old. before that, there's a good chance that the child will outgrow the response.


----------



## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
don't waste your time with skinprick testing. i'd go for a blood draw and do RAST testing. but keep in mind that most IgE testing is not really reliable until a child is between 5 and 9 yrs old. before that, there's a good chance that the child will outgrow the response.

that's what i thought. THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING! I have zero hope that we'll ever find out what's going on with her. I've tried no wheat, soy, dairy, eggs, nuts, shellfish, tomatoes, beans and now am going with no rice as well. Have done TED. Nothing has improved. Nada. I'm just sort of hoping that maybe she'll outgrow it since we probably won't ever figure it out







:


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
that's what i thought. THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING! I have zero hope that we'll ever find out what's going on with her. I've tried no wheat, soy, dairy, eggs, nuts, shellfish, tomatoes, beans and now am going with no rice as well. Have done TED. Nothing has improved. Nada. I'm just sort of hoping that maybe she'll outgrow it since we probably won't ever figure it out







:


okie dokie... can you remind us all ...

what your dd's symptoms are...

what you've tried and are doing now (in terms of food, elimination, etc)...

what supplements you're taking...

i'm losing track of who is doing what, why, and for how long... though i must say that my new stress B complex is really working for me.


----------



## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
okie dokie... can you remind us all ...

what your dd's symptoms are...

what you've tried and are doing now (in terms of food, elimination, etc)...

what supplements you're taking...

i'm losing track of who is doing what, why, and for how long... though i must say that my new stress B complex is really working for me.


Sure









Since birth dd has always had (except for maybe 3 exceptions) green or dark yellow/orange, peanut butter consistency poop that smells horrible like vinegar or sometimes even ammonia.

She is exclusively breastfed. I started with no dairy and then at 2 months old went to no wheat. For a month I did no dairy, wheat, soy, egg, nut, shellfish, tomato and beans - no improvement. Did TED x1 week this last week and things almost seemed to get worse.

She gets probiotics x2 a day and I take omegas, CLO, and probiotics as well.


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Cademyn - Im so sorry you're under pressure!! Ok, I did miss the failsafe discussion, but Im assuming you started it as another possible path for your dd's healing? I ask b/c you seemed to have success with the anti-candida/probiotic rich diet. It could be that you have altered your flora whith the probiotics and diet over the past year so that your original symptoms are better but now you have more lower GI stuff. I have come across studies linking IBS to yeast (I dont want to be one of those who think yeast is responsible for global warming, but looking at your history...), maybe your yeast issues were managed with kefir/probiotics and diet, but now with the addition of more sugary carbs the yeast is coming back? (you had diarhea when you started kefir, maybe this is the same in reverse?) Why would you go to VSL#3 rather than back to what worked in the past? I dont think your original symptoms (acne, anal itchiness, etc) need to return for it to be an indication of yeast issues, but again, I dont want to blame yeast for everything, just mention the possibility. Did the candida diet and kefir stop working?

As for a naturopath, I think you know as much or more than they would. I would recomend a kinesiologist if you can find a good one (which is always the trick with natural healing it seems). I have a great one who can test all sorts of food and supplements but also get a read on various parts of the body and whats going on. Do you know of anyone where you are?

Can you remind me what your symptoms were when this started? If I remember, you started all this b/c of dd's symptoms but then realized you had issues to that were helped by the candida protocal?


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

PV - what about SCD? I dont know much about it except what Ive read here, but Im thinking of LovinLiviLou who has had success with her dd when she switched to that diet..


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
Sure









Since birth dd has always had (except for maybe 3 exceptions) green or dark yellow/orange, peanut butter consistency poop that smells horrible like vinegar or sometimes even ammonia.

She is exclusively breastfed. I started with no dairy and then at 2 months old went to no wheat. For a month I did no dairy, wheat, soy, egg, nut, shellfish, tomato and beans - no improvement. Did TED x1 week this last week and things almost seemed to get worse.

She gets probiotics x2 a day and I take omegas, CLO, and probiotics as well.

just a shot in the dark... have you ever tried putting the probiotics on her bottom instead of in her mouth? i just heard a chiropractor recommend that - the critters then don't have to survive stomach acid.

are her probiotics dairy-free?

have you tried having a fecal test done on her? vinegar and ammonia are both byproducts of anaerobic respiration done by some microbes. it sounds like she's got an imbalance in her gut flora.

the green color means that it is racing through her system and not being digested. the orange color means that it is only being partially digested but more so than the green color.

do YOU have any symptoms?


----------



## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
OK, ladies, I need your best healing-the-gut recommendations. I have developed IBS (or something) and I have 2.5 months to get it healed, or to the point where I can eat reasonably normally. I promised my DH that I would be done with diets and supplements when he back from his deployment the 1st of July, and right now things are so bad that I can't even eat any starches without having diarrhea. DH is extremely unhappy and wants me to go back to eating "normal" foods (none of which I can actually eat) and stop taking all supplements. He basically said I can take whatever supplements but I better be done with the supplements and eating a regular diet by the time he gets back or he will be very upset. He's not happy that a year of trying to heal the gut has essentially made things worse (probably mostly due to my own stupidity in overeating, but that's another story).

So...at this point I am still doing the Failsafe elimination diet. I've also eliminated all non-SCD foods (how ironic, now I'm coming back to the SCD). So I'm eating beef, ghee, celery, brussel sprouts, cabbage, leeks, rutabagas, garlic, celery, and pears. I'm going to start back on Enzymedica enzymes which don't contain any fillers...I stopped my enzymes for the elimination diet because they contain non-Failsafe ingredients, big mistake. I'm also planning on getting the probiotic VSL#3, which is super expensive but been proven effective for IBS and digestive disorders. It contains 450 billion CFU's of good bacteria per dose, so it ought to be pretty effective I hope, although I'm not sure if it's Failsafe or not. I was also thinking about getting some Intestinew or else plain l-glutamine. And I'm debating about whether to consult a naturopath.

I can't do bone broths on the elimination diet but that will be the first thing I add back in when I get done with the elimination diet in a couple of weeks.

So...suggestions, thoughts, anything, ladies?

DD's eczema is starting to look better again, but I'm not holding my breath on it going away completely. If Failsafe doesn't help her I'm done trying to heal her--I've done everything I can for her. She doesn't have any major issues at this point, even her poop is pretty good. She just has eczema and food allergies and cradle cap and butt-crack diaper rash and little bumps all over her torso. Hopefully she'll outgrow all of that, I guess.


You have done so much for dc







s. When he says "normal" eating, what does that mean? I ask because we will never eat "normal" again since we do NT. I agree that you probably have a lot of knowledge and a naturopath won't help. What diet did you do best on (even if it was not a good one for dc)?

You think overeating made things worse? Do you want to tell us more about that? Hmmm. Could you eat slower and chew a long time. That is supposed to help digestion. I don't know much about IBS though. The Maker's Diet may have some insight since he had Chron's.

Could it be stress? I know someone who had Chron's symptoms while going to law school and then it went away. I know it would stress me out if I had a date to heal by, or my dh was deployed, or my dc still had some health issues despite my best efforts to help them.







s Jen


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
caedmyn - do you think you've come full circle? are you starting to have old symptoms that you initially started with? or are these totally new ones? just trying to better understand









I've always had digestive symptoms but they were originally gas and occasional constipation, then changed to bloating and stomach rumbling, and now are diarrhea and stomach cramps within a couple of hours after meals. So I'd say they're new.


----------



## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
that's what i thought. THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING! I have zero hope that we'll ever find out what's going on with her. I've tried no wheat, soy, dairy, eggs, nuts, shellfish, tomatoes, beans and now am going with no rice as well. Have done TED. Nothing has improved. Nada. I'm just sort of hoping that maybe she'll outgrow it since we probably won't ever figure it out







:

Papayavagina

Anectodal evidence at best, but let me throw this out there: my DS did not have any visible issues at first. Gentian violet gave him green poops, but was for the most part asymptomatic otherwise. He was gaining weight like crazy as well, and imho, interventions are not always the best options, sometimes, time is our best ally. But I noticed when he started on solids, on days he had more BM than others, he would have a worse(but never as bad as when on pure BM) BM(bowel movement this time







. Which lead me to think I needed to fix myself since I was exacerbating whatever problem he had in his gut. If I'm not mistaken, you probably had tons of Abx in your system from the c/s and the wound dehiscence, etc. Maybe yeast is your issue, and it is manifesting itself in the poops in your child? Food alone won't make it better, especially if it is heavy in the starches that you get with the restricted diets(IE rice).


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
Cademyn - Im so sorry you're under pressure!! Ok, I did miss the failsafe discussion, but Im assuming you started it as another possible path for your dd's healing? I ask b/c you seemed to have success with the anti-candida/probiotic rich diet. It could be that you have altered your flora whith the probiotics and diet over the past year so that your original symptoms are better but now you have more lower GI stuff. I have come across studies linking IBS to yeast (I dont want to be one of those who think yeast is responsible for global warming, but looking at your history...), maybe your yeast issues were managed with kefir/probiotics and diet, but now with the addition of more sugary carbs the yeast is coming back? (you had diarhea when you started kefir, maybe this is the same in reverse?) Why would you go to VSL#3 rather than back to what worked in the past? I dont think your original symptoms (acne, anal itchiness, etc) need to return for it to be an indication of yeast issues, but again, I dont want to blame yeast for everything, just mention the possibility. Did the candida diet and kefir stop working?

As for a naturopath, I think you know as much or more than they would. I would recomend a kinesiologist if you can find a good one (which is always the trick with natural healing it seems). I have a great one who can test all sorts of food and supplements but also get a read on various parts of the body and whats going on. Do you know of anyone where you are?

Can you remind me what your symptoms were when this started? If I remember, you started all this b/c of dd's symptoms but then realized you had issues to that were helped by the candida protocal?

At this point I'm not sure I ever did have yeast issues. I definitely had digestive issues, and some symptoms that were probably related to poor liver & adrenal function. I think the candida diet helped for a couple of reasons: 1) because it was really nutrient dense and incorporated lots of good fats, and 2) because it eliminated lectins (found in grains, nuts, and legumes, among other foods) and lowered dietary levels of some food chemicals, both of which can cause a multitude of health problems as well as "candida overgrowth" symptoms. But the more fermented foods I added the more digestive problems I seemed to have (gas, bloating, stomach rumbling, and occasionally a bit of diarrhea). I eventually figured out that a food chemical called amines, which fermented foods are high in, was causing the digestive problems. That's why I had problems when I added grains in, because they were all soaked or sourdough and had lots of amines. When I stopped the fermented stuff and stopped soaking my grains, the gas went away, but I started having digestive problems with certain unsoaked grains, and that eventually progressed to having digestive problems with all grains, even white rice, and potatoes, which were fine for a couple of months.

So I don't want to go back to the candida diet because it didn't truly fix the issues, and certainly didn't help DD. I would like to eventually start small amounts of beet kvass or water kefirs, but they aren't allowed on the Failsafe elimination diet due to the amines. I think the diarrhea I initially had from the water kefirs was either an amine reaction or some sort of histamine reaction, not die-off. I also think the reason that many people can never truly get off the candida diet without having symptoms return is because candida was never their primary issue, they were reacting to lectins or food chemicals, and when they start adding those foods back in, of course their symptoms return.

I did start Failsafe to try to help DD as she reacts to odd foods that are high in salicylates like squash and zucchini, and also because I know I react to amines in chocolate and in the fermented foods.

I took DD to a health kinesiologist once and it was very, very weird...so I'm not interested in that anymore. I might consider an applied kinesiologist, but they're all expensive so that'd be more of a last resort type of thing.

My initial symptoms were horrible gas, acne, horrible low blood sugar, mild depression, some fatigue, and the itching.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
Sure









Since birth dd has always had (except for maybe 3 exceptions) green or dark yellow/orange, peanut butter consistency poop that smells horrible like vinegar or sometimes even ammonia.

She is exclusively breastfed. I started with no dairy and then at 2 months old went to no wheat. For a month I did no dairy, wheat, soy, egg, nut, shellfish, tomato and beans - no improvement. Did TED x1 week this last week and things almost seemed to get worse.

She gets probiotics x2 a day and I take omegas, CLO, and probiotics as well.

Is it possible that she could have a bad bacterial overgrowth, like c.difficile? That's supposed to have a pretty awful (and distinctive) smell, and is pretty difficult to get rid of it. Basically you either have to treat it with strong antibiotics and anti-fungals or strong natural antimicrobials (both of which basically destroy all the gut flora) and then replace the gut flora with something like VSL3...the book "Bacteria for Breakfast" talks about this.


----------



## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
When I cheat, nothing changing; i.e. I dont have worse symptoms, and actually, my original yeast stuff got markedly better when I started eating grains, however, I know that grains are hard on the gut so I mostly avoid them to help heal the gerd


What grains are you referring to specifically, and how are you eating them? Are they refined or sprouted, etc?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
You have done so much for dc







s. When he says "normal" eating, what does that mean? I ask because we will never eat "normal" again since we do NT. I agree that you probably have a lot of knowledge and a naturopath won't help. What diet did you do best on (even if it was not a good one for dc)?

You think overeating made things worse? Do you want to tell us more about that? Hmmm. Could you eat slower and chew a long time. That is supposed to help digestion. I don't know much about IBS though. The Maker's Diet may have some insight since he had Chron's.

Could it be stress? I know someone who had Chron's symptoms while going to law school and then it went away. I know it would stress me out if I had a date to heal by, or my dh was deployed, or my dc still had some health issues despite my best efforts to help them.







s Jen

"Normal" eating...I guess NT style although he thinks some of the NT ideas (like soaked grains and ferments) are wacky, and I know he wants to be able to occasionally eat out or accept dinner invitations without worrying about how healthy the food is. He wants me to be able to eat the things DD reacts to but if I can eat everything else I think he'd be okay with me not eating those things.

I probably did best on the candida diet although I definitely still had some issues. It didn't help DD at all, though, and in fact I think her eczema and at least some of her food intolerance are directly related to the candida diet.

Overeating...basically I felt deprived and so when I would cheat on the candida diet (and also when I started adding in grains) I would binge (to the point where someone I know thought I was pregnant!)







: I started having problems with low stomach acid after a week or so of binging over Labor Day, and had more problems start after binging off and on for a while, a couple of months ago. I have definitely learned my lesson in that area.

I don't think stress caused this but it may be making things worse. I mostly stress over the digestive problems and DD's eczema.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

cello: There are few things I don't agree with SCD. The use of ripe banana and honey is one of them. Every yeast book that I read has its own recommendation and recipe, with or without an explanation. For an example, one will say it is ok to use Stevia where SCD is concerned about its nature and affect on children. But, Elaine approves for kids who can not tolerate honey. One book will say you can grow yeast on a single drop of Stevia, and others will not recommend any use of honey or Stevia. One will say "No beans" but SCD will have lists of beans you can eat (after soaking, and not at intro stage.) And the list goes on: apples, avocado, corn, tofu, mushroom, rice, potato... However, SCD is unique, and it works on its own philosophy: Simply, "No polysaccharide." The banana controversy was hot on other web board, along with 'which tomato juice?'

Many kids who get on the SCD have badly damaged gut with various diagnoses and conditions. Many can not tolerate disaccharide (mainly the lactose) or monosaccharide-like my kids. I started with a long list of fruits that they couldn't eat. The only dairy we ate at first was the SCD yogurt, and I had to use egg substitute.

My guess of SCD approving a use of honey is the recipes are mostly for kids, and honey is monosaccharide, just as in fruits and veggies. Other yeast/Candida diet (mostly written for the woman) will not recommend any use of honey at their first stage, and some will say "No fruits" until you can move on to the next stage of healing.

I have a lot of beekeepers here where I can get raw honey. Unfortunately, the only sugar my kids could eat w/o flaring up was corn syrup, which is not permitted on SCD. Until my kids' eczema were cleared, and had good BM everyday, I only gave them fruits that were low in sugar, and only in the morning. I baked only on an occasion with ripe pare (bake it or put them in a blender for cookies and cake.) When I made the SCD pancake, I used freshly yellow banana, before it is too ripe; and avoided feeding them twice or two days in a row.

In my opinion, the less sugar intake at the beginning of the healing stage (that is until the BM is regulated with good quality) will give you a better success rate, although, it is difficult with children who were already eating a lot of sugar. This is another reason why the intro stages are important factor in SCD. I also believe doing the SCD intro stage before you get on any anti-Candida diet will give you a better success rate. If you are an adult, not expecting or BFing, I would consider a mild detox, too.

You can add baked and peeled fruits at first after the intro, but I think you will have a better success with less sugar intake, more green veggies less meat and organic. I have to say the catalyst was the SCD yogurt and finding a skilled use of the enzyme. But, here's a kick: I don't believe we could have had this success unless I did all that in combo, plus more: I took most of the synthetic material out of our life that were potentially putting extra load on their immune system. For an example, we took the carpet off, and installed air cleaner in our previous house. If you need a new drape, get silk or cotton curtain. If you need to paint your wall, use low or no VOC paint, like "Harmony." If you need a new bed, look into organic cotton or wool Futon. Avoid using chemical cleaner: There are tons of natural recipes on web to clean whatever. Change your tooth brush every month, and wash your teeth first thing in the morning, and before you go to bed. I use toothpaste with tea tree in it for myself and DD5. My son doesn't like the taste of it. Wash toys often, sunbathe things you can't wash, and vacuum stuffed animals and pillows. The vacuum called Boss with HEPA filter is what I have, and love it. And, get a lot of house plant, especially in the winter. Oh, ear candling is another good practice on your kids.

Another charm of SCD is the menu can be easily incorporated with the concept of Food Combining Chart. You will destroy the alkaline balance if you eat too much protein, especially red meat. It is easy to over eat protein on SCD, and you must avoid becoming too acidic. The body that is high on acid level hosts the yeast and bad bacteria the best. SCD now approves fermented foods which I am so glad. I always used various herbs with SCD when we are sick. (However, its use was very specific and limited.) The SCD doesn't mention the benefit of bone broth or hot soup. "Nourishing Traditions" and "Eating of Garden" (or maybe the cook book "Bone"?) will explain about the benefits of bone broth. Another thing that SCD don't mention is the benefit of green juice. The new web site speaks a little under the anti-Candida remedy, but I think they were suggesting it to add raw garlic in your diet. I make my veg juice with garlic and ginger. I always add the pineapple core on the kids. They won't drink the garlic or ginger.

When I first found the Healing the Gut tribe, many were on SCD. I took a long break from the tribe since I knew what I wanted to run with it, and it was time to focus on the cooking. Then, we got off the SCD for two months last summer due to construction, packing, cleaning, moving, selling the house, etc, etc. It took two months to go back to the point where the kids could not eat eggs or any fruits, and the weight loss was obvious. That was when I started to make SCD yogurt like a mad scientist (but in my new kitchen







) It has been about 7mo. since we got back on the SCD. The kids are eczema free with good, daily BM. My DD5 can eat all the flair up foods in rotation. My DS3 is still sensitive with some of the foods high in sugar. We still do not eat coconut flakes and honey.

Now I am fermenting veggies, ready to order Kefier grain for grass fed organic milk (if any one has an advice on how to choose a grain, please let me know), Natto (fermented soy beans), sea vegetables, etc, etc.

I'm so sorry this got so LONG! It is so hard to explain something a little bit.

Isn't it time for us to have our own Healing the Gut Tribe Conference? I would love to meet all and hear your stories. And, I'm sure everybody would love to hear the whole story of JaneS. Too bad that Goodpapa is no longer with the power of probiotic.

Thanks for reading!


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
Papayavagina

Anectodal evidence at best, but let me throw this out there: my DS did not have any visible issues at first. Gentian violet gave him green poops, but was for the most part asymptomatic otherwise. He was gaining weight like crazy as well, and imho, interventions are not always the best options, sometimes, time is our best ally. But I noticed when he started on solids, on days he had more BM than others, he would have a worse(but never as bad as when on pure BM) BM(bowel movement this time







. Which lead me to think I needed to fix myself since I was exacerbating whatever problem he had in his gut. If I'm not mistaken, you probably had tons of Abx in your system from the c/s and the wound dehiscence, etc. Maybe yeast is your issue, and it is manifesting itself in the poops in your child? Food alone won't make it better, especially if it is heavy in the starches that you get with the restricted diets(IE rice).

This is what I feel is our problem. I think dd is fine, but my leaky gut is making her react. I'm hoping that once she is off BM, she will do much better. She has started "solids" as she was very interested in them and I feel that I have a very low supply and she isn't getting enough. I really believe she is hungry. Well, since doing the mashed foods, her poops have been okay. Less mucusy when she has eaten, say 5-8 spoonfuls, of mashed fruit or veggies.

I don't know how much harm I am doing to both her and I by being on such a restrictive diet. I often wonder if it's made things worse...


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
And, I'm sure everybody would love to hear the hole story of JaneS. Too bad Goodpapa is no long with the power of probiotic.

Thanks for reading!

I would like to hear JaneS's whole story too! And...perhaps I missed this somewhere, but whatever happened to Goodpapa?


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
just a shot in the dark... have you ever tried putting the probiotics on her bottom instead of in her mouth? i just heard a chiropractor recommend that - the critters then don't have to survive stomach acid.

are her probiotics dairy-free?

have you tried having a fecal test done on her? vinegar and ammonia are both byproducts of anaerobic respiration done by some microbes. it sounds like she's got an imbalance in her gut flora.

the green color means that it is racing through her system and not being digested. the orange color means that it is only being partially digested but more so than the green color.

do YOU have any symptoms?

i guess i don't understand how putting probiotics on her bottom would do anything? she doesn't have a rash or anything, it's just poo stuff.

her probiotics are supposed to be dairy free. they are the solaray ones.

i haven't done a fecal test on her because our provider wouldn't do one







. we've always assumed that it was an imbalance of her gut flora. would that test give us more info?

i don't have any symptoms at all, but i do have a history of food allergies myself with oral allergy syndrome, MSG and sulfites.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 

My guess of SCD approving a use of honey is the recipes are mostly for kids, and honey is monosaccharide, just as in fruits and veggies. Other yeast/Candida diet (mostly written for the woman) will not recommend any use of honey at their first stage, and some will say "No fruits" until you can move on to the next stage of healing.


Actually the SCD was initially designed for digestive disorders like ulcerative colitis and later adopted for use by many in the ASD community. So I don't think the honey is allowed because of kids, but just because it's a monosaccharide.


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
Papayavagina

Anectodal evidence at best, but let me throw this out there: my DS did not have any visible issues at first. Gentian violet gave him green poops, but was for the most part asymptomatic otherwise. He was gaining weight like crazy as well, and imho, interventions are not always the best options, sometimes, time is our best ally. But I noticed when he started on solids, on days he had more BM than others, he would have a worse(but never as bad as when on pure BM) BM(bowel movement this time







. Which lead me to think I needed to fix myself since I was exacerbating whatever problem he had in his gut. If I'm not mistaken, you probably had tons of Abx in your system from the c/s and the wound dehiscence, etc. Maybe yeast is your issue, and it is manifesting itself in the poops in your child? Food alone won't make it better, especially if it is heavy in the starches that you get with the restricted diets(IE rice).

Interesting.

We did have a lot of abx when dd was born but I did not have a wound dehiscence.

Would the yeast only show up with her through me? I don't have any symptoms myself at all. I have been on probiotics myself also as well as kombucha and water kefir.

I am definitely leaning towards the rice being a big part of this since I've been using the "no wheat" products that are mostly rice







.


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
PV - what about SCD? I dont know much about it except what Ive read here, but Im thinking of LovinLiviLou who has had success with her dd when she switched to that diet..

I'm probably going to have to try either that or a rotation diet next once I take a day or 2 to just take a breather I think. At least I can have some cheese with it









We are going to see a naturopath on Thursday so hopefully he will help us some.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 

I did start Failsafe to try to help DD as she reacts to odd foods that are high in salicylates like squash and zucchini, and also because I know I react to amines in chocolate and in the fermented foods.


are you close to determining anything beyond amines as culprits? or do you still have to finish the "detox" phase before introducing things?


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
are you close to determining anything beyond amines as culprits? or do you still have to finish the "detox" phase before introducing things?

is there a list or a link somewhere that has a comprehensive list of foods with salicylates in them? since she mentioned the squash and zucchini (which was a major part of my diet last week) i'm wondering about those as well.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
c.difficile? That's supposed to have a pretty awful (and distinctive) smell,

c-dif smells sickly rotten sweet, not vinegary/ammonia. vinegar would indicate fermentation? (...yeast?).

(now jane, don't tell anyone to send me poo...)


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
are you close to determining anything beyond amines as culprits? or do you still have to finish the "detox" phase before introducing things?

I'm not even sure we have problems with amines, other than knowing I was eating way more of them before than my body could handle. All food chemicals are detoxed in the liver and everyone has a finite capacity to detox food chemicals. Some people just have a very low tolerance, which is what Failsafe is designed to detect. We have to do another couple of weeks on the elimination diet before we can trial stuff. I can't say I've really noticed any differences since we've been on Failsafe but I think we won't really know until we do the challenges. If DD's eczema totally clears that might tell us something, but it could also mean that she was reacting to a food that the diet eliminated rather than food chemicals.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
is there a list or a link somewhere that has a comprehensive list of foods with salicylates in them? since she mentioned the squash and zucchini (which was a major part of my diet last week) i'm wondering about those as well.

http://www.zipworld.com.au/~ataraxy/...ates_list.html has a partial list...apparently a lot of foods haven't been tested although many common foods are on that list. I've been reading that salicylate sensitivity can lead to food allergies, as well as causing "yeast overgrowth" symptoms.


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~ataraxy/...ates_list.html has a partial list...apparently a lot of foods haven't been tested although many common foods are on that list. I've been reading that salicylate sensitivity can lead to food allergies, as well as causing "yeast overgrowth" symptoms.

Well that sucks. It looks like fruits and veggies decrease their salicylate content as they ripen. I have OAS (oral allergy syndrome) so cannot eat fruits and veggies (most of them anyway) once they ripen. Bummer.

Has anyone ever done SCD while also avoid salicylates? It seems like a lot of the stuff allowed on SCD is high in salicylates.

I'm not even sure which diet to start first


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
I'm probably going to have to try either that or a rotation diet next once I take a day or 2 to just take a breather I think. At least I can have some cheese with it









We are going to see a naturopath on Thursday so hopefully he will help us some.


PV - we had luck with SCD, though minus egg and dairy (DD couldn't tolerate any amount of these). After a month, she was way better (as was I, though I never thought I had problems to start with), but the first 2 weeks were way bad (brain fog, emotional basketcase, etc from die-off). However, after a few months we hit a hard place, which I later figured out was because I was overdoing the high amine/salicylate foods (most especially coconut, honey, almonds, cinnamon). To answer some of your earlier posts, I don't think it is possible to do a complete FAILSAFE and SCD diet for a long period of time- I don't think you could get enough nutrients. But you probably could do SCD and avoid the foods in the "high" catagories.

If I were starting over again knowing what I know now, I might just avoid foods I knew were bad triggers, do a rotation diet for everything else (check out the ones JaneS posted in the sticky) and dive heavy into the enzymes world. I'm just now really getting into enzymes (I dabbled before, but now I'm focused), and I'm really optimistic that this is a better answer than just avoiding everything. I'd really recommend you get DeFelice's book (the one titled something like Digestive Wealth).

Alternatively, if you go the SCD route, I'd recommend doing the intro diet for about a week and keeping a copius food log of EVERYTHING you put in either mouth (I think mine is now something like 100 pages typed) and every reaction.

Also - I think it was you who asked about allergy testing. I went this route with the blood RAST test, and it showed nothing (and I had put soooo much hope that it would give me answers). I think I needed to do it to get the doubt out of my mind, though. And in a weird way, it made me more determined to try to figure this stuff out. We are making good progress, including weight gain and virtually no digestive or eczema symptoms, but we just can't get this little girl to grow taller! She is still at 26 inches at 10 months . . .


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
Oh, ear candling is another good practice on your kids.


I had a coworker mention this to me recently, and I thought she was crazy! What is the benefit of this, and how did you get started?

And thank you for making the post so long/informative. I know you are having success with SCD, and it helps to see the perspective because I read vicious cycle twice, and the book was too short to be informative imo. I have looked online quite a bit, and I agree with you regarding the balance between too much protein(too acidic), and the pitfall of too much sugar(i think this is very easy on scd- and a problem for me b/c that is what DH has been most responsive too: cutting out all sugars). I question NT's push on raw milk. I grew up on yogurt/yogurt drink the way milk is drunk here in the states. I am still researching, so I am keeping my final judgment on that open for now. Have any moms here had kids that were not allergic to milk on the healing threads? I don't recall any.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
Interesting.

We did have a lot of abx when dd was born but I did not have a wound dehiscence.

Would the yeast only show up with her through me? I don't have any symptoms myself at all. I have been on probiotics myself also as well as kombucha and water kefir.

I am definitely leaning towards the rice being a big part of this since I've been using the "no wheat" products that are mostly rice







.

Sorry, I thought I had read you had postop complications(early senility is setting in, oh my









I have never had a vaginal infection in my life, but I got a great ole yeast infection in my breasts that took months to heal(gotta love those abx). I had to have had a yeast issue that just wasn't manifesting itself visibly to me. My digestive system is fully developed, DS is not. So I think it was easier for him to manifest symptoms. It was my body's way of saying: hey, I still have yeast going on in my system(even if they are no longer in the breast/visible/obvious). ykwim?


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
PV - we had luck with SCD, though minus egg and dairy (DD couldn't tolerate any amount of these). After a month, she was way better (as was I, though I never thought I had problems to start with), but the first 2 weeks were way bad (brain fog, emotional basketcase, etc from die-off). However, after a few months we hit a hard place, which I later figured out was because I was overdoing the high amine/salicylate foods (most especially coconut, honey, almonds, cinnamon). To answer some of your earlier posts, I don't think it is possible to do a complete FAILSAFE and SCD diet for a long period of time- I don't think you could get enough nutrients. But you probably could do SCD and avoid the foods in the "high" catagories.

If I were starting over again knowing what I know now, I might just avoid foods I knew were bad triggers, do a rotation diet for everything else (check out the ones JaneS posted in the sticky) and dive heavy into the enzymes world. I'm just now really getting into enzymes (I dabbled before, but now I'm focused), and I'm really optimistic that this is a better answer than just avoiding everything. I'd really recommend you get DeFelice's book (the one titled something like Digestive Wealth).

Alternatively, if you go the SCD route, I'd recommend doing the intro diet for about a week and keeping a copius food log of EVERYTHING you put in either mouth (I think mine is now something like 100 pages typed) and every reaction.

Also - I think it was you who asked about allergy testing. I went this route with the blood RAST test, and it showed nothing (and I had put soooo much hope that it would give me answers). I think I needed to do it to get the doubt out of my mind, though. And in a weird way, it made me more determined to try to figure this stuff out. We are making good progress, including weight gain and virtually no digestive or eczema symptoms, but we just can't get this little girl to grow taller! She is still at 26 inches at 10 months . . .

Thank you! I've been digging around on the SCD website this afternoon when I've had moments here and there. Hopefully I can find the intro diet on there. Either that or look more into the rotation diet. I understand the philosophy behind it but I'm still hesitant YKWIM since I really have not a clue what it is that is causing these reactions. I really am at a loss as to how much time to give each diet as well...do I continue to put up with these poos with each diet x1 month? I don't know. I intuitively knew something was really wrong with TED because of the way that my body was reacting to it (major bitch, feeling starving, and not feeling myself whatsoever).

I haven't even begun to look at digestive enzymes really because I am totally overwhelmed with doing what I'm already doing. Hopefully I'll get there soon.

I really should probably not put the dairy or eggs back into it if I do end up going with SCD. I'm so hesitant with stuff now. I just want to get this fixed! It's so frustrating!

My little one is long (6 months old and just over 29 inches) but has barely gained 5 pounds on her birth weight. She looks healthy but is gaining hardly anything at all







.


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
Sorry, I thought I had read you had postop complications(early senility is setting in, oh my









I have never had a vaginal infection in my life, but I got a great ole yeast infection in my breasts that took months to heal(gotta love those abx). I had to have had a yeast issue that just wasn't manifesting itself visibly to me. My digestive system is fully developed, DS is not. So I think it was easier for him to manifest symptoms. It was my body's way of saying: hey, I still have yeast going on in my system(even if they are no longer in the breast/visible/obvious). ykwim?

RE yeast...what do you guys think about GSE with HTG? I heard back and forth things about the safety of it. Thoughts?


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Hey, I just read about a correlation between Gentamicin and ASD. There is info about auditory processing issues which
apparently came out a few years ago and the FDA calls it "possible neurotoxicity both auditory and vestibular", resulting
in auditory delays and sensitivity and sensory issues. Gentamicin is REALLY potent but it's also the best when it comes
to neonatal sepsis. It is considered a "neurotoxin" and can damage neurons.

Ds has both auditory and sensory issues and had Gentamicin at birth for possible sepsis. Did any of the other families
with ASD issues have gentamicin at birth???

Thanks. I'm trying to find some links or info about this.
http://www.nature.com/gt/journal/v7/.../3301180a.html
"*Gentamicin administration often results in cochlear and/or vestibular hair cell loss and hearing
and balance impairment."

*http://www.american-hearing.org/diso..._toxicity.html

http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.pharm...ION%20USP.html
Apparently, neonates are more susceptible to nephrotoxicity and thus abnormally elevated blood levels.
And they have discussed decreasing the dosing schedule to once a day due to toxicity issues.

Here is a study specifically about this: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...gi?artid=59656

*Here is the original finding of gut-flora damage linked to autism:*
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ids=109215 11

What is your experience with Gentamicin and gut issues???

Pat


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Can someone tell me what TED is?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
Have any moms here had kids that were not allergic to milk on the healing threads? I don't recall any.

i don't think my ds is allergic to cow/goat milk. i think he reacts to whatever crap my body dumps into my breastmilk when i drink/eat unfermented cow/goat milk or milk products. my experience, though, is completely confounded - we cut out all dairy for both of us at the same time. with almsot a full year of no ear infections, i'm obviously very reluctant to let him have milk or milk products.

that said, i wouldn't ever give ds raw unfermented milk. my mom grew up with raw milk (from the cows on their farm) but they never ever just drank it. it was always clabbered or fermented.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
Can someone tell me what TED is?

TED = total elimination diet. i think it's the one that dr sears recommends.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Thanks.

I started the candida diet (no eggs, dairy though) plus Candex for 3 days and I keep getting bloated after I eat which is not normal for me. I am also having noraml BMs. All I can think is that I replaced some fruit with gf grains/legumes. I even soak them. I was feeling pretty darn good before candida diet. I was having some labial redness/sensitivity (all external, no smell, no itching) when I got off abx so I was worried about yeast. In a yeast bloodtest 9 mos ago I was borderline in one and negative in the other 2. Maybe I don't have yeast issue and should just keep on doing what I was--no allergy foods, tradtional foods, probiotics, water kefir/kombucha....and try the peptizydes enzymes, rotation with my many IgG allergy foods?

Any thoughts appreciated. I hate wasting time and money on stuff (I am sure you all KWIM!!) Maybe the labial issue was something else (detergent, lubricant ect)

Jen


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
Thanks.

I started the candida diet (no eggs, dairy though) plus Candex for 3 days and I keep getting bloated after I eat which is not normal for me. I am also having noraml BMs. All I can think is that I replaced some fruit with gf grains/legumes. I even soak them. I was feeling pretty darn good before candida diet. I was having some labial redness/sensitivity (all external, no smell, no itching) when I got off abx so I was worried about yeast. In a yeast bloodtest 9 mos ago I was borderline in one and negative in the other 2. Maybe I don't have yeast issue and should just keep on doing what I was--no allergy foods, tradtional foods, probiotics, water kefir/kombucha....and try the peptizydes enzymes, rotation with my many IgG allergy foods?

Any thoughts appreciated. I hate wasting time and money on stuff (I am sure you all KWIM!!) Maybe the labial issue was something else (detergent, lubricant ect)

Jen

whenever i do start to get the labial itchies, i put a few drops of TTO in my underwear (5 drops min but 10 gives a nice burny cooling feeling). i also haul out the spritz bottle i used after ds was born and spray with water/TTO.

i figure it's a sign that something is a little out of whack (for me, it's usually sweets + hormones) but if i then also cut back on sweets (sweet fruit, dates, honey, yada yada yada), i can keep it in check. last spring i needed to do this fairly often for a short period, even into the summer. then i managed to go through the fall and winter without it. i only had to pull it out a week or 2 again (the week i think i had a lot of sweet dark chocolate, not cacao nibs) but only for a day or so.

i managed a few days on the anti-candida diet but it made me hungry, irritable, grumpy so i figured i'd try other ways.

have you tried calendula lotion for your redness?


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

I will try what you have talked about. I have some Weledela Calendula Baby Cream.

It was not everyday, more like every three days for 2 weeks. I know what you mean about the diet. I already have to cut out my allergy foods and then cut out all candida foods. It's just too much. I might as well finish my 7 more days of Candex though.

I think the next step are the peptizydes with my low-carb traditional foods diet. I am thinking of seeing how I feel on goat cheese since I have been reading more about it's proteins.

Jen


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Cello: Thank you for your kind response.

I have an interesting story to share about ear candling.

I read in one of the yeast book that ear candling was recommended, along with other hygine practice, like brushing teath, etc. When I read that, I had an ear infection. So, I went to see my chiro which that is what I always do for the ear infection. I asked if she knew someone who would ear candle treatment for me. She did, so there I went. This was the first time I ever done the ear candling, and she showed me the cruds at the bottom of it that collects at the end. She said "Oh, look at all that YEAST!" My jar hit the flour, since I told her nothing of my yeast problem!!! According to her, you get the 'fluffy stuff' when you have a lot of yeast, and 'yellow gunk' if it collects a lot of ear wax. She also told me 'a bug' was pulled out from one patient by another practitioner, but she didn't know what kind a bug.

The treatment felt like I had gone to the dentisit to clean my teeth, but ears. My ear ache was gone the next morning (along with a chiro adjustment.)

Interesting, hun?


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

If someone asked about no 'allergy/reaction with dairy/milk' I think JaneS' DS was fine with dairy from a start.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

mum2be: It is difficult to say what I am about to say here: I think your gut intuition is correct. And, here's why I think it is. I had meningitis and later encephalitis two years before I conceived my first baby. The MD couldn't find the pathogen after three spinal taps (one was sent to Mayo Clinic), numerous blood tests, vaginal test, sinus test, etc, etc. So, they pumped me with steroids, anti-viro and anti-bacteria and whatever they can find on the pharma shelf. After staying in hospital for 2mo. and a warning of "75%chance of death" and a week at the critical care unit, I survived with no obvious (long term) side affect. I later took an IQ test, and the score was higher than the previous one I took in college LOL.

Soon after I got out of the hospital, I couldn't walk straight, very emotional, trouble with STmemory, and seemed to have lacked some logical thinking. And the humidity caused a giant headache and fatigue. The humidity continued to bother me for a long time which now I think it was the yeast related.

When my DD was born, she did not poop for a week after she passed meconium. Her baby poo was never normal and less frequent than how a baby should pooed. I was so committed with breastfeeding, I did not give up, even though I started with clogged glands and mastitis, then more incidents with the clogged glands (which I believe it was caused by undigested foods/carbohydrate), plus yeast on the nipples many times.

I exclusively bfed her for 8mo. When she started the solids, the constipation got worse. She reacted with oatmeal, but I knew nothing about gluten then. When she was a little over a year old, the evil eczema appeared at the back of her knee.

Who knows how she would be if she was bottle fed (or vaccinated!), but I feel she did not have a chance to receive any of the good, but bad guys from my breastmilk. This was one of a major reason we did not have the #3. I thought I could not give a good gut colony through my breasmilk, and I would never bottle feed a new born. At this point, I am just hoping my kids will have a functional GI. I know a very little about the embryology, but the gut and the brain develops at about the same time. Let's just say, I hope my children are able to have the normal structure of what the gut should be&#8230;

I am not writing my story to discourage you about breastfeeding, but I would definitely take a load of probiotics and digestive enzyme for sure. Because, I believe EVERTHING will come out in your breastmilk. I mean EVERYTHING!


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

newcastlemama: I recommend writing food diary. You will probably find a cause of 'bloating' this way. It is a good habit to see your progress/mistakes as well. Good luck.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

WuWei: Thanks for the interesting links!


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Hey, I just read about a correlation between Gentamicin and ASD. There is info about auditory processing issues which apparently came out a few years ago and the FDA calls it "possible neurotoxicity both auditory and vestibular", resulting in auditory delays and sensitivity and sensory issues. Gentamicin is REALLY potent but it's also the best when it comes to neonatal sepsis. It is considered a "neurotoxin" and can damage neurons.

Ds has both auditory and sensory issues and had Gentamicin at birth for possible sepsis. Did any of the other families with ASD issues have gentamicin at birth???

Pat

you might want to check about the gentamicin with the Mamas of Late Talking Tots/Children Tribe
. they might also be interested, and if their kids also have gut issues it could maybe tie some things together.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

bluets--if you get a chance, can you see if you can locate any studies on probiotics and IBS? I'm specifically trying to find out what strains have been shown to be effective in treating IBS. Thanks!

newcastlemama--I would not do a candida diet for one little issue like that...JMO Grains can definitely cause bloating even if they're probably prepared. Were you taking digestive enzymes with meals? That might help you to digest grains better. I have read that your body produces enzymes for foods you eat, so maybe if you've been off grains for a while your body needs to adjust. Oh, and low stomach acid can also cause bloating.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

I need to get some enzymes. I am going to get the Houston peptizydes for casien/gluten issues. I read in Jane S "HTG Cheat Sheet" that I should take enzymes with and between meals. Should I take a broad-spectrum one in between? I read on enzymestuff.com that if you have lots of food sensitivities to take a really good one for healing the gut.

I am back on my "normal" diet (meat, fat, fruit, veg, nuts) and no bloating.







I had been eating very few gf grains and legumes and I replaced the fruit with them on the candida diet...that seemed to be what th bloating issue was.

That is interesting about the ear candling. I need to find out more about that from my grandma.

Jen


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
I need to get some enzymes. I am going to get the Houston peptizydes for casien/gluten issues. I read in Jane S "HTG Cheat Sheet" that I should take enzymes with and between meals. Should I take a broad-spectrum one in between? I read on enzymestuff.com that if you have lots of food sensitivities to take a really good one for healing the gut.

I am back on my "normal" diet (meat, fat, fruit, veg, nuts) and no bloating.







I had been eating very few gf grains and legumes and I replaced the fruit with them on the candida diet...that seemed to be what th bloating issue was.

That is interesting about the ear candling. I need to find out more about that from my grandma.

Jen

You probably just need one with proteases for in between meals. You could take the Peptidase, or maybe something like Wobenzyme which is cheaper I think. It wouldn't hurt to take a broad spectrum one, though, if you wanted to do that instead, just make sure it is high in proteases.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
you might want to check about the gentamicin with the Mamas of Late Talking Tots/Children Tribe
. they might also be interested, and if their kids also have gut issues it could maybe tie some things together.

Thanks. I will.

Pat


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 

She is exclusively breastfed. I started with no dairy and then at 2 months old went to no wheat. For a month I did no dairy, wheat, soy, egg, nut, shellfish, tomato and beans - no improvement. Did TED x1 week this last week and things almost seemed to get worse.

She gets probiotics x2 a day and I take omegas, CLO, and probiotics as well.

Corn. Eliminate corn.







It is very highly genetically modified. Ds (6) can now eat organic corn without issue. But, until age 3, we avoided all corn. Brocolli family too caused fussy baby. I assume you are not using casein or whey processed into foods.

We've had the most benefit from classical homeopathy, imo. (in conjunction with a fairly clean diet)

Pat


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
just a shot in the dark... have you ever tried *putting the probiotics on her bottom* instead of in her mouth? i just heard a chiropractor recommend that - the critters then don't have to survive stomach acid.










I've heard this is much more effective.

Pat


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Hi, I'm really sorry to just barge in here when I know a lot of you have been active participants on this thread for a really long time, working hard to heal your or your child's guts. I was here briefly last year when my son was a baby, spitting up a lot and not sleeping well. I never really resolved the problems (he stopped spitting up on his own and he's still a super-light sleeper), but it was the info here that made me re-think being a vegan and got me looking into WAPF. I now eat meat and dairy again, and I've been taking Blue Ice CLO. I actually think it was the Vitamin D in the CLO that made me get my period on my own (twice now!) for the first time since I was about 14. (I did IVF to get pregnant with my son because I didn't ovulate/menstruate on my own.)

But I digress...

My son had eczema-like patches over his whole body, but mostly on his back, so I took him to a naturopath who recommended doing a blood test for food sensitivites/allergies. The test was done by US BioTek, and it says that they are food antibody test results, and I only see the IgG antibody on the results.

He tested with moderate reactions to some dairy, including milk, and wheat. I had removed milk from his diet prior to receiving the test results (we'd been doing raw milk for a while and then most recently pastuerized milk) and his back really cleared up.

The naturopath said that a milk sensitivity would cause noticeable problems, like the skin issue, and the wheat sensitivity would cause problems with my son absorbing nutrients during digestion. She suggested cutting dairy and wheat out for six months and then having my son re-tested.

We're now on day three of no wheat and limited dairy (I haven't cut it all out yet...and I'm hoping we can still do raw milk cheese and yogurt).

I guess my question is...what EXACTLY do these tests mean? Is it possible that my son's sensitivities will just clear up on his own if the offending foods are removed from his system for a while?

Also, I had always thought that a wheat intolerance (i.e., celiac disease, which his half-aunt has) would cause some sort of symptoms. Maybe not diarrhea, but delayed growth or constant illness in kids. My son has always been off the charts for height and at the top for weight, and rarely gets sick. Is it possible that he could have celiac disease? The test indicated that he didn't seem to have a problem with gluten, just wheat.

If anyone has experience with these tests or can direct me to some information, I would be very grateful. I am printing out this month's thread to read during my son's naptime, so I'm sorry if this has been covered this month.

ETA: My son also has keratosis pilaris on his upper arms and cheeks, and his cheeks have a tendency to get red and rough (sometimes they are smoother and lighter). His skin all over his body has a tendency to get rough and pimply, too. I don't know if that's a dairy or a wheat thing, but I thought I'd throw it out there.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
You probably just need one with proteases for in between meals. You could take the Peptidase, or maybe something like Wobenzyme which is cheaper I think. It wouldn't hurt to take a broad spectrum one, though, if you wanted to do that instead, just make sure it is high in proteases.

Thanks again Caedmyn. The wobenzyme is supposed to help with inflammation! Hopefully that will do the trick on my last lingering Lyme syptoms...which is mostly stiffness, not really pain at this point.

Jen


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 

The naturopath said that a milk sensitivity would cause noticeable problems, like the skin issue, and the wheat sensitivity would cause problems with my son absorbing nutrients during digestion. She suggested cutting dairy and wheat out for six months and then having my son re-tested.

We're now on day three of no wheat and limited dairy (I haven't cut it all out yet...and I'm hoping we can still do raw milk cheese and yogurt).

I guess my question is...what EXACTLY do these tests mean? Is it possible that my son's sensitivities will just clear up on his own if the offending foods are removed from his system for a while?

Also, I had always thought that a wheat intolerance (i.e., celiac disease, which his half-aunt has) would cause some sort of symptoms. Maybe not diarrhea, but delayed growth or constant illness in kids. My son has always been off the charts for height and at the top for weight, and rarely gets sick. Is it possible that he could have celiac disease? The test indicated that he didn't seem to have a problem with gluten, just wheat.

If anyone has experience with these tests or can direct me to some information, I would be very grateful. I am printing out this month's thread to read during my son's naptime, so I'm sorry if this has been covered this month.

ETA: My son also has keratosis pilaris on his upper arms and cheeks, and his cheeks have a tendency to get red and rough (sometimes they are smoother and lighter). His skin all over his body has a tendency to get rough and pimply, too. I don't know if that's a dairy or a wheat thing, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

It's highly unlikely that you're going to be able to do dairy in any form (except perhaps ghee). Generally if they react to dairy, they react to all of it, unless the problem is actually lactose intolerance which is unlikely in a baby or toddler.

I think wheat or gluten intolerances are much more common than celiac disease. The wheat/gluten related symptoms you're thinking of are related to celiac disease I think. My DD is intolerant to wheat and she reacted with extreme restlessness at night and green mucousy poops. She's always been a happy baby and has grown normally as well. She only had one very minor cold until she was 12 months, also (that was the age at which I realized she was wheat intolerant).

It is possible that removing the offending foods will allow your son to outgrow his food intolerances.

I think the rough and pimply skin is related to eczema as my DD has the same thing and when her eczema gets worse those patches get red and obviously eczema-y instead of just bumpy. It's not dairy or wheat related for her, though, at least not at this point as those have been out of our diets for quite a long time.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
My DD is intolerant to wheat and she reacted with extreme restlessness at night and green mucousy poops. She's always been a happy baby and has grown normally as well. She only had one very minor cold until she was 12 months, also (that was the age at which I realized she was wheat intolerant).

Did your daughter's nighttime restlessness abate when you removed wheat from her diet?

Thanks for your reply...I really appreciate hearing about first-hand experiences.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
ETA: My son also has keratosis pilaris on his upper arms and cheeks, and his cheeks have a tendency to get red and rough (sometimes they are smoother and lighter). His skin all over his body has a tendency to get rough and pimply, too. I don't know if that's a dairy or a wheat thing, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

there might be something in the Nutrition/Immunology 101 sticky in the Vaccinations forum on this matter. i think it might be a vitamin A deficiency or maybe an EFA deficiency? my dh has something like this and it goes away when he, at the very least, stays on top of his EFA intake.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 

My son had eczema-like patches over his whole body, but mostly on his back, so I took him to a naturopath who recommended doing a blood test for food sensitivites/allergies. The test was done by US BioTek, and it says that they are food antibody test results, and I only see the IgG antibody on the results.


i thought IgG meant that the problem was then in the nursing mama, and that it would clear up when (a) mama addressed her issues and (b) babe stopped nursing and (c) babe would then likely outgrow it. i could be wrong or remembering wrong though.

so when you say that you cut out milk and wheat, was it just you (and you're still nursing)? or was it both of you (and you're still nursing)? or was it your child who isn't doing milk/wheat (and you're not nursing) ?

(the whole nursing thing throws a confounding factor into babe's gut issues and it irritates me that docs, even alternative ones, often fail to treat mom and babe as an integrated pair)


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Did your daughter's nighttime restlessness abate when you removed wheat from her diet?

Thanks for your reply...I really appreciate hearing about first-hand experiences.

DOH!

my ds has been waking up SCREAMING at 2:30am for the past 2 nights. then he rolls around on the floor, eventually passes a big fart and settles down. i thought it was first because AF came around - who knows what goes on physiologically really when that happens.

i've been eating a lot of (storebought cultured) butter lately and some icky wheat-containing soy sauce. maybe the butter isn't cultured enough and maybe the soy sauce has enough wheat to be an irritant.

but, yes, New Mama, in general, when i avoid uncultured dairy (at least) my ds has good nights. i'm 95% certain that his nights are also blissful when i don't eat wheat. note that ds can - indeed does - eat wheat regularly. for me, cultured dairy means homegrown kefir ONLY. no cheese unless it is homegrown kefir cheese. no storebought yogurt (i'm too lazy to make my own yogurt). i MAY be able to do sourdough bread, but that would be the extent of the wheat. for both dairy and wheat, the fermentation process breaks down, minimally, the immunogenic proteins but may also breakdown casein (in milk) and gluten (in wheat and other grains) enough to not spit out the opioid-like peptides (casomorphin and gluteomorphin) that cause me (and ds) so much trouble.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
there might be something in the Nutrition/Immunology 101 sticky in the Vaccinations forum on this matter. i think it might be a vitamin A deficiency or maybe an EFA deficiency? my dh has something like this and it goes away when he, at the very least, stays on top of his EFA intake.

I was giving my son CLO for a while, but it didn't seem to make a difference with him, nor does it with me (I have KP on my upper arms, too). Thanks, though.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
i thought IgG meant that the problem was then in the nursing mama, and that it would clear up when (a) mama addressed her issues and (b) babe stopped nursing and (c) babe would then likely outgrow it. i could be wrong or remembering wrong though.

so when you say that you cut out milk and wheat, was it just you (and you're still nursing)? or was it both of you (and you're still nursing)? or was it your child who isn't doing milk/wheat (and you're not nursing) ?

(the whole nursing thing throws a confounding factor into babe's gut issues and it irritates me that docs, even alternative ones, often fail to treat mom and babe as an integrated pair)

Well, my son is almost 21 months and while he IS still nursing a lot, he also eats a lot of food on his own (he started solids at about nine or ten months). I'm cutting out wheat and milk, too.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Corn. Eliminate corn.







It is very highly genetically modified. Ds (6) can now eat organic corn without issue. But, until age 3, we avoided all corn. Brocolli family too caused fussy baby. I assume you are not using casein or whey processed into foods.

We've had the most benefit from classical homeopathy, imo. (in conjunction with a fairly clean diet)

Pat

and corn is everywhere too - HFCS, maltodextrin, xanthan gum (a microbe feeds on corn syrup to create xanthan gum), corn oil, the waxy lining to milk cartons and the disposable deli containers at our local HFS. i happened on http://www.foodreactions.org which contains some useful stuff.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
bluets--if you get a chance, can you see if you can locate any studies on probiotics and IBS? I'm specifically trying to find out what strains have been shown to be effective in treating IBS. Thanks!


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
these folks claim Bifidobacterium infantis (though a specific strain)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
these claim a specific strain of Lactobacillus plantarum works

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
these claim a capsule of heat-killed L. acidophilus works

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum
suggests that Bifidobacterium longum with prebiotics (including FOS) might work.

if you're looking for a somewhat inexpensive product, Nutrition Now has its PB8 formulation - it's actually a nice product relatively speaking - and it contains inulin, something needed for these things to make it to the intestine and multiply (i myself am not convinced with the BTVC viewpoint on avoiding FOS and inulin). you could use it in capsule until you can start fermented coconut milk yogurt again, at which point, you may be able to dump in the contents of the capsule. i don't think i'd worry too much abotu the strains that these folks talk about. these microbes move genes among each other (we're talking genes moving across unrelated species) and they reproduce so quickly (hence evolve new traits quickly) that the strains they have isolated are probably no longer "in the wild".


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
RE yeast...what do you guys think about GSE with HTG? I heard back and forth things about the safety of it. Thoughts?

I'd avoid it because it will wipe out all the good critters along with the bad ones.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
I was so committed with breastfeeding, I did not give up, even though I started with clogged glands and mastitis, then more incidents with the clogged glands (which I believe it was caused by undigested foods/carbohydrate), plus yeast on the nipples many times.


my sister has TREMENDOUS success doing a daily soak of her nipples in epsom salt water to avoid plugged ducts.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
I was giving my son CLO for a while, but it didn't seem to make a difference with him, nor does it with me (I have KP on my upper arms, too). Thanks, though.









my dh used flax seed oil then switched to hemp seed oil for a bit but is now doing flax seed oil with DHA (i think it is barleans' brand) and he's just recently added 1 tsp 2x daily of CLO. but he saw improvements with just 1 Tbsp 2x daily of the flax seed oil at first. 1 Tbsp 2x daily of the hempseed oil worked well too. flax seeds alone isn't enough for him (we eat flaxseeds for breakfast).


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
there might be something in the Nutrition/Immunology 101 sticky in the Vaccinations forum on this matter. i think it might be a vitamin A deficiency or maybe an EFA deficiency? my dh has something like this and it goes away when he, at the very least, stays on top of his EFA intake.

It's supposed to be a vitamin A deficiency. One of Adelle Davis' books says that it takes a lot of vitamin A to correct it, though, so just high vitamin CLO might not be enough.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Did your daughter's nighttime restlessness abate when you removed wheat from her diet?

Thanks for your reply...I really appreciate hearing about first-hand experiences.

Sort of...she reacted the same way to tree nuts and sometimes coconut, but once I figured out all of those things the restlessness stopped.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
these folks claim Bifidobacterium infantis (though a specific strain)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
these claim a specific strain of Lactobacillus plantarum works

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
these claim a capsule of heat-killed L. acidophilus works

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum
suggests that Bifidobacterium longum with prebiotics (including FOS) might work.

if you're looking for a somewhat inexpensive product, Nutrition Now has its PB8 formulation - it's actually a nice product relatively speaking - and it contains inulin, something needed for these things to make it to the intestine and multiply (i myself am not convinced with the BTVC viewpoint on avoiding FOS and inulin). you could use it in capsule until you can start fermented coconut milk yogurt again, at which point, you may be able to dump in the contents of the capsule. i don't think i'd worry too much abotu the strains that these folks talk about. these microbes move genes among each other (we're talking genes moving across unrelated species) and they reproduce so quickly (hence evolve new traits quickly) that the strains they have isolated are probably no longer "in the wild".

Thanks! That was one of my concerns, that they used specific strains in the studies and it's probably not all that easy to find those particular strains, but it's nice to know that it may not matter. I'll have to look into that PB8. For now I went ahead and ordered some VSL3 since it's super strong and that should be a good thing. I don't like FOS although I'm not sure about inulin...for now I'd prefer to avoid it since my stomach is still not settled and I don't want to do anything to aggravate it, although the Culturelle I'm taking now does have inulin in it.

I won't be able to do coconut milk yogurt unfortunately as DD is intolerant to coconut







:


----------



## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
I was giving my son CLO for a while, but it didn't seem to make a difference with him, nor does it with me (I have KP on my upper arms, too). Thanks, though.









FWIW, I had to give my older daughter (almost 4) a lot more than the dosage on the bottle and for quite a while before I saw a difference in the pk (which my husband and MIL have, too). I honestly didn't think it was helping, but I kept giving it to her because she asked for it, and I figured if she was asking for it she must need it, cause that stuff is not tasty! She still asks for her "orange oil" which I find quite amazing. I noticed a difference after about 2 weeks of upping her dosage to about 1 tsp a day (vs 1/4 recommended on the bottle for her age).


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
FWIW, I had to give my older daughter (almost 4) a lot more than the dosage on the bottle and for quite a while before I saw a difference in the pk (which my husband and MIL have, too). I honestly didn't think it was helping, but I kept giving it to her because she asked for it, and I figured if she was asking for it she must need it, cause that stuff is not tasty! She still asks for her "orange oil" which I find quite amazing. I noticed a difference after about 2 weeks of upping her dosage to about 1 tsp a day (vs 1/4 recommended on the bottle for her age).

it's funny that kids have this intuition about what they need. my ds asks for the "tummy medicine" or the "tooth medicine" or the "cinnamon medicine" or the "pronbiontic" (his pronunciation!) depending on his hurts. he's not so good at asking at 2:30 am though. i'm very irregular about giving him stuff though







: - i mostly ask him (when i remember) if he wants it, mostly when he's showing signs of a cold/allergic-type reaction.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Hey, all. I remember somebody here asking a while back about introducing oils to their LO, but I don't remember the details (maybe was it you, Caedmyn?). I was thinking the other day about doing this to help get some calories into her (I'm not doing grains, egg or dairy with her yet), but I'm torn about which one. How does giving CLO play into the shellfish allergy - should I be concerned? I was thinking I might do flax oil and make sure it is really fresh (I know it goes rancid pretty easily). We're nursing as much as possible, which I know is the best source of fat and calories, but I want to try to get more calories into her via solids.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
Hey, all. I remember somebody here asking a while back about introducing oils to their LO, but I don't remember the details (maybe was it you, Caedmyn?). I was thinking the other day about doing this to help get some calories into her (I'm not doing grains, egg or dairy with her yet), but I'm torn about which one. How does giving CLO play into the shellfish allergy - should I be concerned? I was thinking I might do flax oil and make sure it is really fresh (I know it goes rancid pretty easily). We're nursing as much as possible, which I know is the best source of fat and calories, but I want to try to get more calories into her via solids.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

CLO wouldn't cause any problems with a shellfish allergy. I gave DD coconut oil straight off a spoon until I realized she reacted to that...then I mixed EVOO into her food. Now I just give her ghee in chunks and she loves that. Purity Farms ghee is certified casein free...my DD does fine with that but maybe a super-sensitive baby wouldn't, I don't know.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Did your daughter's nighttime restlessness abate when you removed wheat from her diet?

Thanks for your reply...I really appreciate hearing about first-hand experiences.

Yes, ds's sleep improves significantly when no wheat is consumed.

Pat


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Yes, ds's sleep improves significantly when no wheat is consumed.

Pat

Thanks for the responses.









I just finished a fascinating book on hormone balancing with the unfortunate name of "Feeling Fat, Fuzzy or Frazzled?" and was thinking I would mention it here, but figured hormones and healing the gut were not related. Then lo and behold, I was skimming last month's thread, and you guys were talking about the adrenal glands and thyroid and their possible connection to digestive issues.

What I like about this book is that while it's written by an endo and his wife (a nurse), they say that most docs do not/will not/can not diagnose these types of conditions, and that the standard blood tests are unreliable at best. They recommend a saliva test that you can order yourself that is supposed to be much more accurate, and then give you guidelines for healing whatever imbalance is most prominent. They really stress non-medication solutions, though they are not opposed to prescription drugs if they're necessary.

I'm wondering if I have adrenal insufficiency. My mother and sister were just diagnosed with hypo-thyroidism after being jerked around for years by jerky doctors and poor tests, so the problem with hormones runs in my family.

I found the book fascinating, and some of you that find you have symptoms you think are merely digestive in nature might be interested in reading this book. Everything really must be all connected.

I'm thinking of doing the saliva testing. My regular doc ran some tests last week, had an assistant call and say they were all normal and to come back in six weeks. Umm, hello? Feeling cruddy? Was hoping you'd go over the results with me? (I _really_ wanted a referral to the endo my sister and mom went to, but my doctor wouldn't do it without running tests herself.)

I _so_ wish we never needed doctors for anything. So annoying.


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Thanks for the responses.









I just finished a fascinating book on hormone balancing with the unfortunate name of "Feeling Fat, Fuzzy or Frazzled?" and was thinking I would mention it here, but figured hormones and healing the gut were not related. Then lo and behold, I was skimming last month's thread, and you guys were talking about the adrenal glands and thyroid and their possible connection to digestive issues.

What I like about this book is that while it's written by an endo and his wife (a nurse), they say that most docs do not/will not/can not diagnose these types of conditions, and that the standard blood tests are unreliable at best. They recommend a saliva test that you can order yourself that is supposed to be much more accurate, and then give you guidelines for healing whatever imbalance is most prominent. They really stress non-medication solutions, though they are not opposed to prescription drugs if they're necessary.

I'm wondering if I have adrenal insufficiency. My mother and sister were just diagnosed with hypo-thyroidism after being jerked around for years by jerky doctors and poor tests, so the problem with hormones runs in my family.

I found the book fascinating, and some of you that find you have symptoms you think are merely digestive in nature might be interested in reading this book. Everything really must be all connected.

I'm thinking of doing the saliva testing. My regular doc ran some tests last week, had an assistant call and say they were all normal and to come back in six weeks. Umm, hello? Feeling cruddy? Was hoping you'd go over the results with me? (I _really_ wanted a referral to the endo my sister and mom went to, but my doctor wouldn't do it without running tests herself.)

I _so_ wish we never needed doctors for anything. So annoying.

Thanks for that book info! I'm going to check it out. We should have a library loan on MDC for all these medical books we recommend to each other









I actually was taking T3 for the thyroid issues I was having and haven't really noticed a difference. My ND thinks I also have adrenal insufficiency and put me on ashwaganda for it. I think that has been helping, although the past 6 days I have had a weird headache that won't go away and this feeling of constant fatigue. But the ashwaganda seems to be helping. (I ran out of it last week and was just able to pick some up today.)

Do you have a good ND you can see? I know the other doctors I've been to think nothing could be wrong with my thyroid, etc. if my tests are within normal range...I know my hormones are a mess, so I am excited to check out this book!

Wasn't there another book on hormones and health someone else had recommended?


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Wow, this thread is just plugging away! I've been spending less and less time on the computer, so I have to catch up every night and there's usually 3 pages I have to read!







:

I don't know what is going on with me. My eczema and acne were getting a little better and I was excited. Then two days ago it hit full force again. My eczema is the worst it's been in a while and my acne is bad again too. I don't get it. I haven't had ANYTHING different to eat than what I normally have. I'm so completely confused!! Any ideas?

Dd is eating more "solids." I am doing the horrible mushy baby food because she only has one little tooth popping through at 7+ months. She is not nursing well now because of the teething, so I think the solids are helping and she's not as frustrated. She is doing about 5-10 small spoonfuls a day of mashed banana, pears, apples, and mixtures of these things. She's not the biggest fan, but does enjoy what she manages to eat.

So since the start of these solids, I have been keeping an eye on her poops. They were horribly mucusy for so long, but with the addition of these foods, the mucus is lessening. She has no skin rashes, not even dry skin! She is not fussier than usual, and only appears to be slightly gassier, but nothing that bothers her.

If she had a leaky gut, would she show obvious signs of reacting to foods directly?

I'm hoping this means that it is MY milk that is bothering her, and she will be fine once we move on to solids. Healing myself is another story!!

Do you keep your babes on just bifidus once they start solids?

Thanks


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
I don't know what is going on with me. My eczema and acne were getting a little better and I was excited. Then two days ago it hit full force again. My eczema is the worst it's been in a while and my acne is bad again too. I don't get it. I haven't had ANYTHING different to eat than what I normally have. I'm so completely confused!! Any ideas?


Have you been eating more of any food than usual? How long have you been taking the ashwaganda? If you haven't been taking it very long it's possible that you could be sensitive to salicylates and the eczema, acne, headache, and fatigue could all be signs of too many salicylates (herbs are very concentrated sources of salicylates). It can take a while for salicylate reactions to show up.

Quote:

If she had a leaky gut, would she show obvious signs of reacting to foods directly?

I'm hoping this means that it is MY milk that is bothering her, and she will be fine once we move on to solids. Healing myself is another story!!

Do you keep your babes on just bifidus once they start solids?
IMO if your DD has a leaky gut she will react to foods but she's not going to react to every food, and those aren't particularly allergenic. She's more likely to react to eggs or dairy or the other common allergens.

I kept DD on just b. infantis for quite a while after she started solids...I don't think it would hurt to keep her on just that until she's older and eating a lot of solids.


----------



## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Have you been eating more of any food than usual? How long have you been taking the ashwaganda? If you haven't been taking it very long it's possible that you could be sensitive to salicylates and the eczema, acne, headache, and fatigue could all be signs of too many salicylates (herbs are very concentrated sources of salicylates). It can take a while for salicylate reactions to show up.

Haven't been eating more of any food lately. I've been taking the ashwaganda for a month and haven't reacted to it at all. I would think it would be strange if I was reacting to that, if the reaction started a month later and when I went OFF of it because I ran out for 1.5 weeks.

I see no correlation between my acne and eczema related to foods. It seems to be related more to lack of sleep. On the nights I get little sleep because dd is up a lot, my eczema is worse. Funny how it started getting better when dd started sleeping a little bit more.
But then again, I think it has more to do with stress and hormones.

The only thing I notice about reacting to foods is occasional gas that is quite stinky. And, then again, don't most people have gas every so often?

I don't know...I'm in one of my confused moments














:


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
I'd avoid it because it will wipe out all the good critters along with the bad ones.


I agree, it was not friendly to my body at all. And also, the extraction process is questionable.

Off topic question: If you were going to take it, why not just grind up some seeds yourself and eat them rather than buy the extract? I don't know much about the processing of this stuff, which is why I ask to see if anyone has an idea....


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 

The treatment felt like I had gone to the dentisit to clean my teeth, but ears. My ear ache was gone the next morning (along with a chiro adjustment.)

Interesting, hun?

Thank You! I will have to do more research into it.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 







I've heard this is much more effective.

Pat

I am so confused by this: do you insert the probiotics as a suppository? Or just rub it around the exterior orifice? How does it help -- going in through rectum to large intestine?


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
I see no correlation between my acne and eczema related to foods. It seems to be related more to lack of sleep. On the nights I get little sleep because dd is up a lot, my eczema is worse. Funny how it started getting better when dd started sleeping a little bit more.
But then again, I think it has more to do with stress and hormones.

Not to harp on this too much, but skin issues can be a result of wacky hormones according to the book I mentioned.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
I am so confused by this: do you insert the probiotics as a suppository? Or just rub it around the exterior orifice? How does it help -- going in through rectum to large intestine?

Open the capsule and sprinkle on the affected area, several times a day. Be sure the area is dry first.

Pat


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Ladies,

my six year old dd is on Naproxen, and I was giving her tons of proteolytic enzymes with proteases for her juvenille arthritis....She had a double ear infection last week, we treated it w/o abx....now she has had stomach pain for FIVE days. Her rheumy said to use pepto bismol, but when I read the ingredients I said "Hell No" to that. Still, now we are using raw goat milk and a stomach remedy with licorice root in it. I took her off all proteases. She takes probiotics. She went off of Naproxen from sunday eve to Wed. Yesterday I put her back on the NSAIDS/Naproxen. Still Stomach pain after that and she is reluctant to take the meds. She takes the Naproxen to subdue her eye inflammation, we had the choice of that or Methotrexate (MTX). Any advise on what to do? I could get a bismuth preparation w/o the crap from a compounding pharmacy. We go to the naturopath tomorrow. Should I eliminate juices, fruits, and acidic foods?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Open the capsule and sprinkle on the affected area, several times a day. Be sure the area is dry first.

Pat

ds and I had a control struggle this morning over exactly this! "Ivan do it." I tried negotiating to be his eyes and to guide his hand but in the end, he dumped almost a QUARTER of the bottle on himself (i.e., half of what was left, coz it was half gone already). then he was complaining about it being scratchy! I think I might need to get a salt shaker for future applications. oh well. he needed a good dosing anyway.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
Ladies,

my six year old dd is on Naproxen, and I was giving her tons on proteolytic enzymes with proteases for her juvenille arthritis....She had a double ear infection last week, we treated it w/o abx....now she has had stomach pain for FIVE days. Her rheumy said to use pepto bismol, but when I read the ingredients I said "Hell No" to that. Still, now we are using raw goat milk and a stomach remedy with licorice root in it. I took her off all proteases. She takes probiotics. She went off of Naproxen from sunday eve to Wed. Yesterday I put her back on the NSAIDS/Naproxen. Still Stomach pain after that and she is reluctant to take the meds. She takes the Naproxen to subdue her eye inflammation, we had the choice of that or Methotrexate (MTX). Any advise on what to do? I could get a bismuth preparation w/o the crap from a compounding pharmacy. We go to the naturopath tomorrow. Should I eliminate juices, fruits, and acidic foods?

constipated or too loose?

if constipated, applesauce, more probiotics, and magnesium. if too loose, applesauce mixed with ground flaxseeds and more probiotics.

have you considered a homeopathic remedy? http://www.abchomeopathy.com but keep your mind open for unusual symptoms/behaviors. Cina works for constipation if there's also behavior like toothgrinding and nosepicking. Chamomilla also works for constipation and diarrhea if accompanied with tooth pain and a few other symptoms that escape me right now. Maybe your naturopath can help get a good remedy.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
Ladies,

my six year old dd is on Naproxen, and I was giving her tons of proteolytic enzymes with proteases for her juvenille arthritis....She had a double ear infection last week, we treated it w/o abx....now she has had stomach pain for FIVE days. Her rheumy said to use pepto bismol, but when I read the ingredients I said "Hell No" to that. Still, now we are using raw goat milk and a stomach remedy with licorice root in it. I took her off all proteases. She takes probiotics. She went off of Naproxen from sunday eve to Wed. Yesterday I put her back on the NSAIDS/Naproxen. Still Stomach pain after that and she is reluctant to take the meds. She takes the Naproxen to subdue her eye inflammation, we had the choice of that or Methotrexate (MTX). Any advise on what to do? I could get a bismuth preparation w/o the crap from a compounding pharmacy. We go to the naturopath tomorrow. Should I eliminate juices, fruits, and acidic foods?

Slippery elm bark powder is good for diarrhea or soothing upset stomachs...it'd probably be good for constipation as well as it is high in soluble fiber. Mix 1 Tbsp. slippery elm bark and 1 tsp. cinnamon (you can skip the cinnamon or use a different flavoring) with enough water to make a gruel.

I'd been meaning to PM you, too...I thought of your daughter when I read this link about lectins and rheumatoid arthritis http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html#Become
And here's another link about lectins http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...n&ct=clnk&cd=9
There's also a yahoo group on lectins called "lectins_in_autism" if you're interested.

ETA: this information might be interesting to you as well, as there can definitely be a link between salicylates (found in NSAIDs) and stomach problems (and if not for your DD, maybe for one of your other kids)
www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.com
www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
Still Stomach pain after that and she is reluctant to take the meds. She takes the Naproxen to subdue her eye inflammation,

Have you tried fennel or ginger extracts for the stomach discomfort? (Gripe Water or Tum-ease)

Also, have you tried any other anti-inflammatory topical herbal compress? http://www.associatedcontent.com/art..._medicine.html Also, breastmilk helps eye inflammation.

I would definitely consider seeing a professional homeopath about the arthritis in conjunction with your current physician.

Pat


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 

I just finished a fascinating book on hormone balancing

Btw, here is an old post of mine regarding hormonal balance and saliva testing and bio-identical replacement therapy. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...va#post5178228

Pat


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 

I see no correlation between my acne and eczema related to foods. It seems to be related more to lack of sleep. On the nights I get little sleep because dd is up a lot, my eczema is worse. Funny how it started getting better when dd started sleeping a little bit more.
But then again, I think it has more to do with stress and hormones.


I know that stress increases magnesium needs and most pregnant and breastfeeding women have insufficient magnesium in their diet. Magnesium helps hormones to be utilized properly.

Pat


----------



## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
constipated or too loose?

constipated

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 

if constipated, applesauce, more probiotics, and magnesium. if too loose, applesauce mixed with ground flaxseeds and more probiotics

She doesn't do apples because they are a food reactive on her IGG. Today is pear day though. She now is in too much pain to take her meds including her probiotics and mag supplement, and we are working on it. Maybe the slippery elm gruel listed below will help get her to that point.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 

have you considered a homeopathic remedy?
[/TD]
[/TR][/TABLE]
Yes, I did the...ng.com/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]
Slippery elm bark powder is good for diarrhea or soothing upset stomachs...it'd probably be good for constipation as well as it is high in soluble fiber. Mix 1 Tbsp. slippery elm bark and 1 tsp. cinnamon (you can skip the cinnamon or use a different flavoring) with enough water to make a gruel.

so cool. There is some slippery elm in caps on the clearance rack right now and I have cinnamon. I am going to go get that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 

I'd been meaning to PM you, too...I thought of your daughter when I read this link about lectins and rheumatoid arthritis
[/TD]
[/TR][/TABLE]
Thank You. I a...ng.com/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]
ETA: this information might be interesting to you as well, as there can definitely be a link between salicylates (found in NSAIDs) and stomach problems (and if not for your DD, maybe for one of your other kids)
www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.com
www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info

Thanks, I will read those too. Yeah, so why are they prescribing Pepto Bismol with even more salicylates in them for stomach irritation? It has ALUMINUM in it, YK? Not to mention food colorings. The only reason she is on the NSAIDS is that the other choices given were going blind, or immunosuppressors. It looked like the best choice of those three. I so hope the naturopath can find her homeopathic remedy for this whole thing, then maybe she can wean off the NSAIDS.

I am going to call in to her rheumy and see if for now we can get the NSAIDS in an injection to bypass the digestive system.


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Ladies,

I have cramp bark herb leftover from a birth. Does anyone know if I can make a tea out of it for my daughters stomach pain? Can you give it to children? She's having the fennel tea now.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
I wonder if I could make a water remedy with RO water?

i'm sure you could. isn't something like 3-5 tablets in 4 oz of water? but then that changes the dilution too... though it would make it more potent.

i just read that one can make one's OWN homeopathics from diseased tissue or urine, mix with water, dilute, dilute, dilute, ad nauseum... THAT just creeps me out a bit.... I lost the URL but it was an article by Walter Last.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Btw, here is an old post of mine regarding hormonal balance and saliva testing and bio-identical replacement therapy. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...va#post5178228

Pat


Excellent!! Thanks for this


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
i just read that one can make one's OWN homeopathics from diseased tissue or urine, mix with water, dilute, dilute, dilute, ad nauseum... THAT just creeps me out a bit.... I lost the URL but it was an article by Walter Last.

Yeah, did you ever hear that in the ancient orient they would drink their own urine as a cure for diseases? I couldn't eat my plancenta at my homebirth when I hemmoraged, I doubt seriously if any child o' mine will drink their own pee. Diluting though, where would we be w/o that invention!?! I might have been more agreeable to a homeopathic preparation of a very diluted placenta from someone else that hemmorraged, YK? Fascinating idea. I'm gonna have to google that. Diluting pee for a homeopathic remedy creeps me out much less than Naproxen though.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

bestbirths, does your ND do bodywork too? sometimes simple CST can help. i just read something about clearing chakras (a form of bodywork) to help relieve pain - has a chiropractor-ish sound to it.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
I know that stress increases magnesium needs and most pregnant and breastfeeding women have insufficient magnesium in their diet. Magnesium helps hormones to be utilized properly.

Pat

Very interesting. You know, I am taking a cal/mag/zinc supplement my ND put me on. It has about 120% of the RDA for mag. I also got the Aussie Sea Minerals because everyone raves about them. I took two doses (one a day, for two days straight) and had loose bowels. When I stopped taking it, they went away.

Then I realized the Aussie Minerals have a little over the RDA % for magnesium too, so I assumed I had gone over my bowel tolerance for magnesium which meant I wasn't too depleted, but perhaps it was something else in them.

Interesting that my eczema has gotten worse and acne since I ran out of my cal/mag supplement about 3 weeks ago. It was better at first, but has since gotten much worse.

My ND is now saying my hormones looks relatively okay (estrogen and progesterone) but I still feel like they are all out of whack. When I was on birth control, I felt the best I ever had in my entire life.

**************
I had some split pea soup yesterday and dd reacted with lots of gas. She was up a lot last night. I had some gas too, but now I always do with something I eat that I haven't in a while. It seems the longer I stay away from foods, the more I react to new ones when I reintroduce them. It's frustrating.

Part of me can't wait until dd stops nursing so I can really work on getting myself into better shape. I feel like my limited diet is really ruining my health, but I don't want to add stuff in now and have her react to everything







:

So, a doctor I went to see a while ago said that I just needed to eat more things and that dd would eventually stop reacting to it the more I ate it. I'm assuming he has no idea what he's talking about, but does anyone know if this could be true? Wishful thinking...


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

mum2be - you should read "Mother Nurture" or google "Depleted Mother Syndrome". this book belongs in every mom's library.

as for the split pea soup - from a can or homemade? can you narrow it down to something in the soup?


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## Bestbirths (Jan 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
bestbirths, does your ND do bodywork too? sometimes simple CST can help. i just read something about clearing chakras (a form of bodywork) to help relieve pain - has a chiropractor-ish sound to it.

It will be our first time going to him. He does something called Naturopathic manipulation, specific manipulation of muscles and joints. Maybe he will reach right in somewhere and fix things.

p.s. The fennel tea helped her tummy a little but not enough for her to take her medicine or supplements.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Btw, here is an old post of mine regarding hormonal balance and saliva testing and bio-identical replacement therapy. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...va#post5178228

Pat

Thank you!


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bestbirths* 
Diluting pee for a homeopathic remedy creeps me out much less than Naproxen though.

I agree!









Pat


----------



## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

We started giving dd (11 mos) some enzymes (Houston Zyme Prime) - just a teeny bit only with breakfast for the past few days. Now her poops are all mushy and yellow. And although there was undigested food in her poops before they weren't mushy and they didn't smell bad. Now they smell sour.
Is this normal?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
We started giving dd (11 mos) some enzymes (Houston Zyme Prime) - just a teeny bit only with breakfast for the past few days. Now her poops are all mushy and yellow. And although there was undigested food in her poops before they weren't mushy and they didn't smell bad. Now they smell sour.
Is this normal?

I'm not sure why enzymes would cause that--is there anything else diet or supplement-wise that's changed since you started giving her the enzymes? And is the sour smell nasty or more along the lines of EBF baby poop smell?

Oh...could she be teething? It just struck me that your description sounds an awful lot like my DD's teething poops (only hers are orange)...she got her first teeth around 5 months but the teething poop started when she was cutting molars around 12 months.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I've been doing some reading on supplements for IBS. Two that seem to be popular and apparently pretty successful are calcium supplements (not sure why those would help) and soluble fiber supplements. It sounds like they are more for managing/eliminating the symptoms rather than actually healing, but they might be worth a shot in any case. Psyllium is the recommended fiber supplement but I've heard some bad things about that...I wonder if I could use ground flaxseed instead.

Also, I've read that l-glutamine can sometimes be converted into glutamates (natural MSG) in the gut...anyone know anything about this? I suspect DD might have a problem with glutamates due to an eczema flare-up after I ate chocolate coconut milk pudding made with gelatin so I don't want to take l-glutamine if it could cause problems for her.


----------



## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I'm not sure why enzymes would cause that--is there anything else diet or supplement-wise that's changed since you started giving her the enzymes? And is the sour smell nasty or more along the lines of EBF baby poop smell?

Oh...could she be teething? It just struck me that your description sounds an awful lot like my DD's teething poops (only hers are orange)...she got her first teeth around 5 months but the teething poop started when she was cutting molars around 12 months.

Hmm, it could be. She hasn't ever really had teething poops before when she was teething, especially not anything like this, but she has been drooling terribly and chewing like she has another one coming (she just cut 4 in three weeks not too long ago).
It seems to mostly be the first diaper of the day (the one with the previous day's breakfast still in pieces in it







). If she has another poopy one it is also mushy, but not as much. Her poops smell almost nasty sour. Like grown-up sour poop







She has been eating bites of fermented veggies, but she has been doing that for more than a week now and it hadn't influenced her poops before. And it seemed to start right with the enzymes. Sigh, always something more to figure out.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
Hmm, it could be. She hasn't ever really had teething poops before when she was teething, especially not anything like this, but she has been drooling terribly and chewing like she has another one coming (she just cut 4 in three weeks not too long ago).
It seems to mostly be the first diaper of the day (the one with the previous day's breakfast still in pieces in it







). If she has another poopy one it is also mushy, but not as much. Her poops smell almost nasty sour. Like grown-up sour poop







She has been eating bites of fermented veggies, but she has been doing that for more than a week now and it hadn't influenced her poops before. And it seemed to start right with the enzymes. Sigh, always something more to figure out.

You could always stop the enzymes for a bit and see what happens...if the weird poops go away and you re-start the enzymes and they come back, you'll know it's the enzymes.

My DD's teething poop definitely has a very distinctive smell--as soon as I smell it I know she's teething again! It seems like it's kind of a strong sickly sweetish-sour kind of smell, if that makes any sense (sorry, TMI!).


----------



## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
My DD's teething poop definitely has a very distinctive smell--as soon as I smell it I know she's teething again! It seems like it's kind of a strong sickly sweetish-sour kind of smell, if that makes any sense (sorry, TMI!).

That's the smell! So I think it is teething. If it doesn't get better I might just stop the enzymes and reintroduce later.
Thanks!


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Hi Mamas,

sorry to just jump right in with this, but do you have any thoughts?

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...32#post7912832


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Hello everyone. I've been MIA for a while. I haven't had the energy to delve into this thread, but I'm gearing up again. Dd is slowly weaning. In some ways, I'm sad, but in other ways, I'm happy. I feel like I'll be able to see her problems more clearly when they're not linked to my breastmilk.

All of my questions and comments just flew from my head, lol. I guess I'll just check back later. I'm starting more vigorously with dd's supplements/rotation diet this week, so I'll post how it all works out.

I did want to say that her yeast seems to be under control for the time being. I'm so thrilled about that. Also, she's able to tolerate fruits now that she didn't before (like grapes). I believe it's because her gut has healed from where it was and because of the probiotics and breastmilk she's received.

I'm holding out hope that she can outgrow these allergies and sensitivities.

Does anyone know of a connection between nsaids overuse and later salicylate sensitivity? I took soooooo much Tylenol as a teen (constant headaches which I'm sure were diet related) and now, my dd has poblems with high salicylate foods. Just wondering if anyone had run across any info. I'm curious to see if her reactions will lessen when she's not nursing any more.


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## TushasAmi (Feb 2, 2007)

Hello Ladies,

This is my first post on this thread after lurking reading archives for a few months. When my dd developed eczema at 4 mo (she's now 6.5 mo) I started my research and finally figured out that eczema = food allergy/sensitivity = leaky gut = yeast overgrowth. Last week I noticed that I have oral thrush, so I'm pretty sure the yeast are in my gut, too. dd almost always has mucousy stool and a few times has had blood in it. I've eliminated dairy and soy (except for occasional soybean oil) with modest improvements. No more bloody stool, but still mucousy and still eczema.

My current plan is to use probiotics and enzymes to try to get rid of the yeast using the strategy outlines on enymestuff.com. (Basically, you take probiotics and enymes with meals to help heal the gut and proteases and a yeast-targeting enzyme formula between meals to kill the yeast)

I have a ton of questions but here's a couple for right now:

1. Has anybody had success with this strategy? And what dietary changes should I make? People seem to talk about "the" yeast control diet, but I've seen a lot of permutations of it. I know at the very least I need to reduce sugar and starch. Do I need to eliminate it all together? Go gluten free? Eliminate all grains? If so, what in the world to I eat?

2. Is it likely that I've passed on the yeast to dd? She doesn't have thrush or diaper rash. I've been giving her Solray Baby Life because it is dairy-free but it has maltodextrin in it. If she has yeast will the maltodextrin feed the yeast? Should I switch to something else?

3. A question about proteases. From enzymesuff.com I understand that taking them without food will target and degrade bad bacteria and yeast. Can they really distinguish between good bacteria and bad bacteria? Therefore, will they degrade all kinds of bacteria, both good and bad, and have an effect similar to antibiotics? I suppose that if they do, it makes probiotics all the more important.

4. Die-off. I have been taking Lactozyme and Peptizyde without any problem. Yesterday I took half a Digest Gold with a light breakfast and I felt horrible all day (still do). I was nauseated all day, achy, extremely tired, vomiting. I suppose it is different for everyone, but is this die-off? It was unbearable. dd got cranky. I think I'll stay away from the Digest Gold for a while.

Wow, this got long, fast. Sorry! Thanks in advance for any imput you have. I cannot tell you have glad I am that I found MDC!

-Heather


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

TushasAmi - here's my $.02 on yeast and leaky gut:

Leaky gut does not necessarily = yeast, but yeast means your gut was leaky, and the yeast is furthering that. Id say you had/have leaky gut and that opened the door to the allergies, yeast, etc.

Since you are breastfeeding, the enzyme plan sounds good. Others here are more versed in enzymes and bf'ing though. I would throw in some raw garlic too. A couple cloves a day.

The diet; there are variations, but I think it depends on how bad your symptoms are and how vigorously you want to address it. I think people who include some grains (millet, amaranth, etc) are not getting at the yeast as well as people who do not. Same for fruit. Personally, I dont see overcoming yeast while eating these. When I was treating yeast, I ate low carb veggies (no carrots, potaties, beets), meat, and good fats, eggs, and after several months, some soaked nuts. It took a little while to get used to it, but once I did, not a big deal. Nowadays, I dont really feel nourished when I eat grains - I thought I missed them, but eating them again is very anticlimactic









Your dd inherited her gut flora from passage through the birth canal, and from your bm. So Id say, yeah, there's a good chance she has some yeast overgrowth too. I think the little maltodextrin is not significant, especially when compared to the benefit of the probiotic.

You are in a great place for information and support through this.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TushasAmi* 
Last week I noticed that I have oral thrush, so I'm pretty sure the yeast are in my gut, too. dd almost always has mucousy stool and a few times has had blood in it. I've eliminated dairy and soy (except for occasional soybean oil) with modest improvements. No more bloody stool, but still mucousy and still eczema.

Do you have thrush or just a white coating on your tongue? If it's not painful or uncomfortable, it's probably not thrush. I had a white coating on my tongue for a long time, but it wasn't thrush. Also, IME wheat and nuts caused mucous in my DD's stool. (Dairy caused blood in the stool, and I avoid soy so I never had to worry about that.)

Quote:

1. Has anybody had success with this strategy? And what dietary changes should I make? People seem to talk about "the" yeast control diet, but I've seen a lot of permutations of it. I know at the very least I need to reduce sugar and starch. Do I need to eliminate it all together? Go gluten free? Eliminate all grains? If so, what in the world to I eat?
I think all candida diets eliminate all fruit and sweeteners, except stevia. Most also eliminate starchy veggies like potatoes, corn, and yams. Some eliminate all grains, and some allow small amounts of grains other than wheat. And most eliminate dairy as well. Most allow nuts (you can make lots of baked goods with nuts). You can eat lots of meat and veggies, and eggs, and good healthy fats like butter. IME eating lots of fat is key to success with a low-carb diet like a candida diet--add tons of butter, coconut oil, etc to your food. Coconut oil is also anti-fungal so it's great for yeast.

Quote:

2. Is it likely that I've passed on the yeast to dd? She doesn't have thrush or diaper rash. I've been giving her Solray Baby Life because it is dairy-free but it has maltodextrin in it. If she has yeast will the maltodextrin feed the yeast? Should I switch to something else?
If your DD doesn't have any signs of yeast problems I wouldn't worry about her having yeast. I think the benefits of the BabyLife will outweigh the negatives of the maltodextrin.

Quote:

3. A question about proteases. From enzymesuff.com I understand that taking them without food will target and degrade bad bacteria and yeast. Can they really distinguish between good bacteria and bad bacteria? Therefore, will they degrade all kinds of bacteria, both good and bad, and have an effect similar to antibiotics? I suppose that if they do, it makes probiotics all the more important.
I don't know about the proteases working on both good and bad bacteria, but like you said, you should be taking probiotics anyway.

Quote:

4. Die-off. I have been taking Lactozyme and Peptizyde without any problem. Yesterday I took half a Digest Gold with a light breakfast and I felt horrible all day (still do). I was nauseated all day, achy, extremely tired, vomiting. I suppose it is different for everyone, but is this die-off? It was unbearable. dd got cranky. I think I'll stay away from the Digest Gold for a while.
You can try the low-and-slow method of introducing new enzymes, although it seems to me that if you tolerate peptizyde fine it's probably not the Digest Gold causing problems for you as it seems like it's the proteases that people have trouble with when starting new enzymes. Did you eat anything different than you normally do? It could just have been some sort of virus, too, who knows.


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

So an update for us is that I took dd to a naturopath who told me that I needed to stop trying the different diets ASAP because he said he was really worried about the quality of my breastmilk and because I am pretty badly anemic and have been bleeding a lot since starting back my cycles. He has put me and dd both on some really strong non-dairy probiotics and said that he wants me to do those x2 weeks and then see what happens. I'm still continuing to do dairy and wheat free in the meantime as well. I'm staying a little leery though because I'm not going to spends a gob of money on unecessary supplements (you know how NDs can be sometimes).

I left there a little grumpy though because he wants me to start dd on blackstrap molasses, which I am NOT going to do. He's BIG on starting solids ASAP and doing lots of iron rich foods.

I have no faith that this will change anything whatsoever but I'll willing to play his game for a while. I told him about my suspicions on salicylates so maybe after we do this I can try that diet next.

I've also setup an appointment for dd with my really great allergist (I have lots of love for him because he finally diagnosed me with sulfite and MSG sensitivities after many other allergists couldn't figure out what was going on). I'm hoping that he can provide some insight as well. We'll see.


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## PapayaVagina (May 11, 2002)

P.S.

Could someone please explain to me the difference between reaction poop and teething poop?

I think dd has a mix of the 2, but if these good probiotics do start clearing things up how can I tell?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
I've also setup an appointment for dd with my really great allergist (I have lots of love for him because he finally diagnosed me with sulfite and MSG sensitivities after many other allergists couldn't figure out what was going on). I'm hoping that he can provide some insight as well. We'll see.

From what I've read if you react to one food chemical it's highly likely you react to others, also, and since food chemical intolerances tend to run in families, it seems likely to me that you'll see good results (for both of you) from Failsafe.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
P.S.

Could someone please explain to me the difference between reaction poop and teething poop?

I think dd has a mix of the 2, but if these good probiotics do start clearing things up how can I tell?

I second this







Dd is cutting her first tooth now.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
P.S.

Could someone please explain to me the difference between reaction poop and teething poop?

I think dd has a mix of the 2, but if these good probiotics do start clearing things up how can I tell?

IME teething poop doesn't last very long and has a distinctive smell and color (orange for DD). Reaction poop was sporadic (of course if you're eating the food regularly it could be constant) and green, always green for us. My DD also tended to poop in the middle of the night when she was reacting to something, which she didn't normally do.

I would say just watch for symtoms of reactions and symptoms of teething. If she's drooling a lot and chewing on everything she's likely teething. If the probiotics help, then you'll know it was a reaction poop. Although IME probiotics didn't help with reactions, they just helped normalize DD's poops after I'd eliminated the allergens, and they seemed to help her gut heal somewhat (no more blood in stool) from the dairy intolerance.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

caedmyn-About the IBS, have you read the info on Bifidus and the reduction of IBS? My ND sent me an article Natren just put out. I could try to scan it and send it to you if you're interested.

Question about dd's poops...(yes, more poop questions







)

Since starting solids, they contain very little mucus. Before, it was VERY mucusy. I could even post a picture. It looked like a giant sneezed in her diaper







They were gross. We are doing mashed and pureed foods (no flames please, she doesn't quite get the mashing with her gums part yet) and eats only about a 1/4-1/2 jar total daily of usually two different foods. We have been doing pears, bananas, apples and plums, apples and apricots, peas, carrots and squash. She LOVES peas. I opened the jar and gagged, but she loved them!

Also, since eating more solids she is sleeping better.

Coincidence? Or was she really hungry a lot because I have a low supply? Or is my BM really hurting her?

This is pushing me to consider supplementing her with a hypoallergenic formula in a sippy cup to see if I can lessen the impact my BM has on her gut.

Any ideas?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
caedmyn-About the IBS, have you read the info on Bifidus and the reduction of IBS? My ND sent me an article Natren just put out. I could try to scan it and send it to you if you're interested.

Question about dd's poops...(yes, more poop questions







)

Since starting solids, they contain very little mucus. Before, it was VERY mucusy. I could even post a picture. It looked like a giant sneezed in her diaper







They were gross. We are doing mashed and pureed foods (no flames please, she doesn't quite get the mashing with her gums part yet) and eats only about a 1/4-1/2 jar total daily of usually two different foods. We have been doing pears, bananas, apples and plums, apples and apricots, peas, carrots and squash. She LOVES peas. I opened the jar and gagged, but she loved them!

Also, since eating more solids she is sleeping better.

Coincidence? Or was she really hungry a lot because I have a low supply? Or is my BM really hurting her?

This is pushing me to consider supplementing her with a hypoallergenic formula in a sippy cup to see if I can lessen the impact my BM has on her gut.

Any ideas?

I haven't read that article--if you know the name of it I can try to search for it so you don't have to try to scan it.

Did your DD seem dissatisfied frequently after nursing? It's possible that she was truly hungry although it's always hard to know if things are just a coincidence or not (speaking from personal experience!).

I think in your situation I'd be more inclined to try to up your DD's consumption of easy-to-digest, nourishing foods than going with formula...I have a bit of a mental block against commercial formula, I guess. You could try pureed meats (definitely get grass-fed if at all possible). Ghee would be a really good thing to get into her, too (you could melt it and mix it with her baby food). I really think for a young baby if they're eating much at all it's better to give them pureed foods they can actually digest rather than letting them self-feed foods that they can't digest. I think the main point of self-feeding is not encouraging them to eat too many solids too early, but in your case you want your DD to eat more so purees would be better. And if your DD does well with meat and ghee you could consider giving her egg yolks...eggs are such a nutrient-dense food it's sad that they're such a common allergen, but I think it'd be worth a try because of the nutritional value.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Well my VSL3 probiotics came on Thursday and I've been taking them...today I actually had a normal BM (as opposed to either cramps & diarrhea or major constipation, sorry TMI!). I've also started taking some pascalite clay, which is supposed to absorb the toxins from bad bacteria (which could be causing diarrhea), and also to kill some bad bacteria. Which makes me wonder if perhaps the reason that Primal Defense with it's soil-based organisms is effective for some people is because of the dirt itself, and not because of whatever good bacteria is supposed to be in it. I'm also trying to make sure I stay relaxed since stress is a common cause of or trigger for IBS. I didn't think I was terribly stressed but perhaps I was more stressed than I realized.

I haven't been able to find much information on the underlying cause of IBS, but I think it is probably either due to a gut flora imbalance with the bad bacteria producing all sorts of toxins, or due to inflammation. I'm hoping that a program that addresses both possibilities (probiotics, foods that don't trigger attacks, pascalite clay, calcium & magnesium to relax the gut, and possibly raw garlic or another natural anti-bacterial to kill off any bad bacteria, and possibly l-glutamine) will address and fix the problem.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Ive mentioned before that Ive undertaken a meditation practice as part of dealing with my lgs issues (initally yeast, and now gerd). Ive read a lot about the effect of meditation on the gut in reputable, mainstream, clinical books. I initially read about this on a website led by an MD named Walt Stoll. He discusses something called skilled relaxation (SR) whereby you get your bodymind into such a relaxed state that your brainwaves are at a lower frequency than normal daily function (beta is awake, alpha and theta are relaxed and light sleep respectively, delta is deep sleep) Alpha is when healing happens to the body and brain (hypothalamus), but we spend very little time in alpha (this is what you pass through in and out of sleeping). The prescription is a minimum of 2 x 20 min of alpha/theta per day for 6 mos-1 year to affect your hypothalamus. When we talk about stress being bad for your gut - yes, it is. But the worse part, is that your hypothalamus can become overloaded and deliver stress to your body even when you arent actively "stressed". Its like a line in the sand, once you have crossed it, the only way to get your hypothalamus, and therefore body, functioning normally is alpha/theta brainwaves. LGS is caused by this overload of stress, or bracing, on the hypothalamus. And the definition of stress is wayyyyy broader than what we mean when we say it.

Im making this longer than I intended. I wanted to say, if you want to hear more, Ill explain more. But I felt compelled to post the testimonial below, and also to say that in my reading, SR is effective on things like rheumatoid arthritis (autoimmune), allergies, skin disorders, .... anything lgs related). This person just posted this; they cured graves disease with SR!! inspiring

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"...then the Grave's disease happened. ...My endocrinologist wanted to shut down my thyroid with RAI (black tape over the warning lights! as Walt would say)and I searched the internet for days for an alternative until I found this site. Of course, looking back with 20/20 hindsight, that first episode with candida was probably the first sign I was getting of an LGS problem. From Walt, I've learned that Graves (and a lot of other autoimmunity problems)has its origin in LGS, so I am still working on solving that. ....After the first 12 months, I was able to discontinue meds I was taking for Grave's disease. My thyroid #s have all stayed within normal range, including the all important T-3, T-4, etc."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

jess


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Did your DD seem dissatisfied frequently after nursing?

Somtimes during nursing she's even dissatisfied. Always within 10 minutes after though. I don't know...sometimes I feel like everything that has been going on (and keeps happening) is trying to tell me to "stop nursing!" But I don't want to. I don't know what to do sometimes!

I'll get the name of that article to you soon


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
Somtimes during nursing she's even dissatisfied. Always within 10 minutes after though. I don't know...sometimes I feel like everything that has been going on (and keeps happening) is trying to tell me to "stop nursing!" But I don't want to. I don't know what to do sometimes!

I'll get the name of that article to you soon









Yeah...I'm seriously thinking about weaning my DD soon, although I don't feel like she gets enough nutrition from solids and neither of us are emotionally ready. I'm just starting to feel more and more that her food restrictions and reactions are causing health problems for me. Also, the fact that I still haven't had a PP AF is making me nervous that it won't come back until I wean...and we went to start TTC again in a few months. I know I shouldn't wean just for that, but...the thought's in my mind for sure. My current plan is to wean around 21 months but we'll see.


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## newcastlemama (Jun 7, 2005)

Hi everyone. I tried the Houston Peptizydes+dairy (tried goat and cow dairy). Not good. I am aching all over now and have a headache. I am even feeling depressed. Oh well, back to GFCF living.

Is there a way to make the reaction stop? Maybe I should take some SA?

Jen


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newcastlemama* 
Hi everyone. I tried the Houston Peptizydes+dairy (tried goat and cow dairy). Not good. I am aching all over now and have a headache. I am even feeling depressed. Oh well, back to GFCF living.

Is there a way to make the reaction stop? Maybe I should take some SA?

Jen

1/2 tsp of baking soda in water works for salicylate reactions...maybe it would work for that, too. I've heard that pascalite or bentonite clay (1 Tbsp on water) helps with gluten reactions. Otherwise, SA would probably be your best bet.


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## TushasAmi (Feb 2, 2007)

> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
> ...


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## TushasAmi (Feb 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
Since you are breastfeeding, the enzyme plan sounds good. Others here are more versed in enzymes and bf'ing though. I would throw in some raw garlic too. A couple cloves a day.

This seems like a silly question, but how do you take the raw garlic? I'm assuming that you add it to food, but perhaps chewing a couple cloves isn't as bad as I imagine...


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## phishers3 (Sep 17, 2006)

forgive me for this if it's redundant - but where to go for recommedations on how much and whats the "best" to give for babies. Probiotics that is... DS is almost 11 mo.
TIA


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TushasAmi* 
This seems like a silly question, but how do you take the raw garlic? I'm assuming that you add it to food, but perhaps chewing a couple cloves isn't as bad as I imagine...

I crushed them and would stick them in a spoonful of soup or tea and then swallow the whole thing real quick...or hiding them in applesauce worked well, too.

In answer to your other post, I don't think there's any harm in trying natural remedies for yeast even if you don't have it. I really don't think that white coating on your tongue sounds like thrush, but who knows.

For probiotics for your DD, I would go with any brand that contains some b. infantis and doesn't have FOS (just my personal preference on the no-FOS). I'd probably give double the recommended dose as well.


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## mommymonkey (Feb 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Well my VSL3 probiotics came on Thursday and I've been taking them...today I actually had a normal BM (as opposed to either cramps & diarrhea or major constipation, sorry TMI!).

Hi all, I am jumping in. I was actually coming here to post about VSL 3 probiotics and see what experiences anyone had. Caedmyn, Are you still breastfeeding? That is a concern of mine since it has 450 billion cultures. How many packets a day do you take?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommymonkey* 
Hi all, I am jumping in. I was actually coming here to post about VSL 3 probiotics and see what experiences anyone had. Caedmyn, Are you still breastfeeding? That is a concern of mine since it has 450 billion cultures. How many packets a day do you take?

I'm still BF'ing. I don't think the high bacterial count is anything to worry about at all--homemade 24 hr yogurt and kefir have at least that amount per cup. I'm doing the capsules and taking 4 a day (which is 450 billion).


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## viking (Mar 2, 2007)

*jumping in again*

I went to a health food store to look for what products are avaliable,
and they told me that it was not possible to buy digestive enzymes.
I have yet to ask at the pharmacy, but i got the impression they wont have it either.
- how can i naturally work on my digestive enzymes without supplements?

they had some probiotica. expensive ... i dont think i will buy any. ill continue to eat norwegian commercial yoghurt with Lactobacilus acidophilus (A), Bifidobacterium lactis (B) and Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG (LGG).
i hope to make my own yoghurt in the future.
- how do i figure out what kind of probiotica i need?
- my stomach reacts to the yoghurt. feels like i am filled with cement. is that a sign the probiotica is very much needed?
- i may even get sick after some days with regular intake of probiotica, and although i think i will be worse before i get better whatever i do to heal, im not sure why. could it cause some kind of die-offs etc?

i do not like supplements as pills and powder. and im not exactly rich either.
- how should i go about fixing my gut? im not even sure exactly what the problem is, but ibs, leaky gut, candida seems likely. (not allergies/etc)


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## TushasAmi (Feb 2, 2007)

caedmyn-

Did you figure out what the white coating on your tongue was? And how did you get rid of it?

Thanks for the tip about giving dd double dose of probiotics. I don't think I was giving her enough.


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## viking (Mar 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TushasAmi* 
Did you figure out what the white coating on your tongue was? And how did you get rid of it?

i've had a terrible coated tounge for years. (i belive it might be candida or something?)

some weeks ago i started swishing my mouth with oliveoil for many minutes every morning, then spit it out and brush teeth with water only.
after two days i noticed the coating was gone ...
it comes back as soon as i skip the routine.


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## viking (Mar 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TushasAmi* 
So maybe it isn't thrush. This is what I find so frustrating, and I know I'm not alone...how do you know if you have yeast overgrowth?? I did the spit test this morning and it grew legs in less than two minutes (EEWwww!) I took several different surveys online and two said yeast problem, one said no. Is there any harm in trying yeast treatments if you don't actually have yeast overgrowth? (This is partly why I was wondering about protease activity on good bacteria)

no, you are not alone ...
i am confused by both my symptoms, and what i read online. i dont want to make matters worse.
a correct diagnose would help my healing.
i feel time is running out.

best wishes in your search, TushasAmi. i hope you keep updating what you learn and experience.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TushasAmi* 
caedmyn-

Did you figure out what the white coating on your tongue was? And how did you get rid of it?

Thanks for the tip about giving dd double dose of probiotics. I don't think I was giving her enough.

I've read that the white tongue coating is a sign of a toxic body, but who knows if that's true. Mine went away after I started drinking water kefirs.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Has anyone here used EnteroLab for stool testing? I'm wondering if I or my son might have celiac disease.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Has anyone here used EnteroLab for stool testing? I'm wondering if I or my son might have celiac disease.

I haven't...but I have been following the GFCFNN yahoo group for a while and apparently there's some controversy on how accurate the EnteroLab test is. If I'm interpreting what I've read right, basically it appears that most people who take the test benefit from removing gluten from their diets regardless of the results of the test. It seems that (just as with any suspected food allergy/intolerance) the best way to determine if you have problems with gluten is to do a gluten-free diet for a while and see what happens.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I haven't...but I have been following the GFCFNN yahoo group for a while and apparently there's some controversy on how accurate the EnteroLab test is. If I'm interpreting what I've read right, basically it appears that most people who take the test benefit from removing gluten from their diets regardless of the results of the test. It seems that (just as with any suspected food allergy/intolerance) the best way to determine if you have problems with gluten is to do a gluten-free diet for a while and see what happens.

Do you have a link to the Yahoo group site?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Do you have a link to the Yahoo group site?

I don't, but if you go to the Yahoo Groups and then search for "GFCFNN" it will come up and you can join.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Dear Mum2be,

I'd been there. Everybody told me it is so easy to make yogut, but it was a major challenge for me at first. I made a lot of bad batches, and have tried different methods, but learned each time. Don't worry, if you get the bad ones at first: You will find your way!

Yes, I started making it by the SCD recipe, but the yogurt makers I have (Both from Salton's) are too hot to incubate goat milk. I believe the temperture is set for making cow's milk yogurt. So, I use my oven. It comes out perfect each time, since I can set the temp exactly.

And, yes, I do heat the goat milk to almost 182F. I do this because I use commercialy sold goat milk.

I use Pyrex glass cooking pot to cook the goat milk, then incubate in the oven. I cover the pot with a saran wrap, so I can write the time I put the pot in the oven. I do this, so I will incubate for 24hr. for sure. I don't want to incubate more than 24hr. since it will become very tart, and the kids don't like'm as much.

Here is the instruction I wrote for my husband for goat milk yogurt. I hope this will help a bit. I hope I answered your question. PM again, if I can answer more question. I posted here, since your pm box is full.

---------------------------------

SCD Goat Yogurt (for 2qt.)

It is best to use utensils that were in the dishwasher, or boil everything for 10 min.

2.5L Pyrex cooking pot with lid
Cooking thermometer
A stainless cooking spoon (with holes works the best)
1/4 measuring spoon

2 Quarts of Meyenberg's Goat Milk
¼ spoon of Pro-Gurt (From SCD web site.)

Put 2 quart size goat milk in the cooking pot. Keep the cooking thermometer and the spoon until you are ready to put the pot in the oven.

Heat it in a medium high heat until it reaches 182F, but do not exceed 185F. Stir often, and well as the temperature raises. The milk is easy to get burnt due to the lactose contents. Do not let it burn.

When it heats up to the right temperature, put the lid and let it cool until it reaches the temperature of 64F-77F (cooler the better, so the Pro-Gurt will have easier transition from refrigerator.) You may do this with ice water in the sink to speed up the cooling. Keep the lid on, and stir before reading the temperature.

Set the oven temperature to 110F (Slightly higher than the almond yogurt.)

When it is cooled, take the thermometer out of the pot. Take the Pro-Gurt out of the refrigerator, and sprinkle 1/4 spoon of Pro-Gurt on top. Put the Pro-Gurt back in the refrigerator.

Mix gently with the existing spoon. Take the spoon out, and cover the pot with Saran Wrap.

Write the time of incubation on the Saran Wrap as a reminder, and incubate undisturbed for 24hr.

When done, cool it undisturbed in the refrigerator for over night (8hr.)


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I don't, but if you go to the Yahoo Groups and then search for "GFCFNN" it will come up and you can join.

Thanks!


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

I need some insight. Around the same time I was doing the TED I also started using animal fat to cook with - replacing a lot of the vegtable oil I was using. During the TED (which I didn't last that long on, by the way, maybe 2 weeks) I actually gained several kg's, which was a surprise, because I was consistently loosing weight up to that point. Mostly I gained because I never felt "full" and would eat until I would fall over some days







During that time I also started getting little "pimples" (for lack of a better word) on mainly the back of my thighs! I thought it might have something to do with not enough nutrition. Now I am eating better, have portion control back, but is still eating a lot of animal fat (instead of veg fat, although I have some hemp oil and olive oil). The pimples still keep coming. Is it the fat? Is it still the concequences of the TED? Is it something completely different? I have no clear gut issues right now. No bloating or bad gas even. I am still not eating the top allergens, except for soaked nuts and seeds. And no grains except for buckwheat. And I actually feel good, or at least so much more energetic than on the TED. What on earth is going on?


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
Dear Mum2be,

I'd been there. Everybody told me it is so easy to make yogut, but it was a major challenge for me at first. I made a lot of bad batches, and have tried different methods, but learned each time. Don't worry, if you get the bad ones at first: You will find your way!

Yes, I started making it by the SCD recipe, but the yogurt makers I have (Both from Salton's) are too hot to incubate goat milk. I believe the temperture is set for making cow's milk yogurt. So, I use my oven. It comes out perfect each time, since I can set the temp exactly.

And, yes, I do heat the goat milk to almost 182F. I do this because I use commercialy sold goat milk.

I use Pyrex glass cooking pot to cook the goat milk, then incubate in the oven. I cover the pot with a saran wrap, so I can write the time I put the pot in the oven. I do this, so I will incubate for 24hr. for sure. I don't want to incubate more than 24hr. since it will become very tart, and the kids don't like'm as much.

Here is the instruction I wrote for my husband for goat milk yogurt. I hope this will help a bit. I hope I answered your question. PM again, if I can answer more question. I posted here, since your pm box is full.

---------------------------------

SCD Goat Yogurt (for 2qt.)

It is best to use utensils that were in the dishwasher, or boil everything for 10 min.

2.5L Pyrex cooking pot with lid
Cooking thermometer
A stainless cooking spoon (with holes works the best)
1/4 measuring spoon

2 Quarts of Meyenberg's Goat Milk
¼ spoon of Pro-Gurt (From SCD web site.)

Put 2 quart size goat milk in the cooking pot. Keep the cooking thermometer and the spoon until you are ready to put the pot in the oven.

Heat it in a medium high heat until it reaches 182F, but do not exceed 185F. Stir often, and well as the temperature raises. The milk is easy to get burnt due to the lactose contents. Do not let it burn.

When it heats up to the right temperature, put the lid and let it cool until it reaches the temperature of 64F-77F (cooler the better, so the Pro-Gurt will have easier transition from refrigerator.) You may do this with ice water in the sink to speed up the cooling. Keep the lid on, and stir before reading the temperature.

Set the oven temperature to 110F (Slightly higher than the almond yogurt.)

When it is cooled, take the thermometer out of the pot. Take the Pro-Gurt out of the refrigerator, and sprinkle 1/4 spoon of Pro-Gurt on top. Put the Pro-Gurt back in the refrigerator.

Mix gently with the existing spoon. Take the spoon out, and cover the pot with Saran Wrap.

Write the time of incubation on the Saran Wrap as a reminder, and incubate undisturbed for 24hr.

When done, cool it undisturbed in the refrigerator for over night (8hr.)


So you leave the oven on for 24 hours? Wow!

I am using raw goat's milk. Should I only heat to 115*F? Also, I don't have a pyrex dish, but I do have the Le Creuset pot with lid that can go from stove to oven. Will that work? I can't put it in the dishwasher though. Will that be okay?
I am so afraid of growing bad bacteria!! That's the last thing I need!

Thanks so much for this post!


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
Dear Mum2be,

I'd been there. Everybody told me it is so easy to make yogurt, but it was a major challenge for me at first. I made a lot of bad batches, and have tried different methods, but learned each time. Don't worry, if you get the bad ones at first: You will find your way!

Can't agree more! Experience is your friend here. I can't remember how many bottles of milk I wasted before I got my first good batch....even now, it is a work in progress.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PapayaVagina* 
So an update for us is that I took dd to a naturopath who told me that I needed to stop trying the different diets ASAP because he said he was really worried about the quality of my breastmilk and because I am pretty badly anemic and have been bleeding a lot since starting back my cycles. He has put me and dd both on some really strong non-dairy probiotics and said that he wants me to do those x2 weeks and then see what happens. I'm still continuing to do dairy and wheat free in the meantime as well. I'm staying a little leery though because I'm not going to spends a gob of money on unecessary supplements (you know how NDs can be sometimes).

Hey there. I have thought of you reading up on a couple of books/getting over a nasty cold here. I read Yeast Connection by crook. It had a couple of good chapters, and the rest was superfluous imho. What was interesting was a) he too suggested doing a rotation diet b) if eliminating the basics that he suggests doesn't work, you should do a caveman diet(which exclude a lot of basic stuff, like eggs, beef, chicken, rice). It just seems the more I read, the more TED was something I should not have done(grrrr...oh well). And I know I've read of a couple of mom's having not so great results with TED....gotta keep reading on I guess.

Will be back to share on Leo Galland's stuff. I am up to my ears in books to read/share...


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Mum2be: Yes, I leave my oven on at 110F for 24hrs. And, 105F for 8 hrs. for almond yogurt. And, I wish I had double oven...

I think Le Creuset would work just fine. However, I recommend checking on e-bay for Pyrex's pot, since it can go into the dishwasher. The sanitation is the basic of avoiding to grow the bad bacteria in the yogurt.

I never used the raw goat milk, so that would be your call on how much to heat it. I've read some people won't even heat the raw milk. In my opinion, that would be depending on who is your goat milk supplier: I would want to know how the goats are raised, what they feed and kept under what kind of condition in order to not heat it at all.

You may want to first experiment with the commercially sold goat milk; just so you can feel how to make it, and practice, in a way. Then, try the raw goat milk with and without heating it, to see what you like the best. Personally, if I had the raw milk, I would rather drink that to get the full benefit of the raw milk.

Cello: I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one who struggled with the yogurt making... And, I'm glad to be able to share my story here.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Just for my two cents opinion, I think SCD's intro stages are more appropriate and beneficial for the chronical condition of our kind of gut and/or starting any new diet (like Feingold, GFCF, rotation, etc, or starting the digestive enzyme, than TED. One of the reason I believe this is due to the similar condition that the SCD Intro stage will give to the body that the mild detox will do.

Also, if anyone had not a good result with Huston's enzyme, try Enzymedica's Digest or Digest Gold. Digest Gold is SCD legal where Digest is not.


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## TushasAmi (Feb 2, 2007)

This week I started giving dd her Baby Life protbiotic (two scoops a day) after a break for a week or two and it has corresponded with poops that are a LOT more mucousy and greener and more frequent than ususal. Does this seem like a normal reaction? Should I go more slowly? Of course it could be a reactions to new foods or a new reaction to old foods...


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## TushasAmi (Feb 2, 2007)

Oh, and I started being more regular about enzymes at meals, too. Digest Gold and Peptizyde. It doesn't seem like it should be an issue, but has anyone had problems with their dc reacting to enzymes?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TushasAmi* 
This week I started giving dd her Baby Life protbiotic (two scoops a day) after a break for a week or two and it has corresponded with poops that are a LOT more mucousy and greener and more frequent than ususal. Does this seem like a normal reaction? Should I go more slowly? Of course it could be a reactions to new foods or a new reaction to old foods...

It's probably more likely to be a reaction to a new food one of you is eating, but you could always stop the probiotic for a bit and see what happens. If it is the probiotic, then it's likely she's reacting to corn as the filler (maltodextrin) is corn-derived.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TushasAmi* 
Oh, and I started being more regular about enzymes at meals, too. Digest Gold and Peptizyde. It doesn't seem like it should be an issue, but has anyone had problems with their dc reacting to enzymes?

Sometimes proteases cause problems...hyperactivity, sleep problems, and crankiness are the reactions that I've seen reported here.


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TushasAmi* 
This week I started giving dd her Baby Life protbiotic (two scoops a day) after a break for a week or two and it has corresponded with poops that are a LOT more mucousy and greener and more frequent than ususal. Does this seem like a normal reaction? Should I go more slowly? Of course it could be a reactions to new foods or a new reaction to old foods...

This happened with dd's last round of probiotics which claimed to be dairy free on the website (and label too!) and then under the ingredients on the bottle said: Contains dairy and soy







:







: I was so mad, I called up the company and complained. They said if she reacts to it, I can get my money back. Well, she's had mucus in her stools before, so how do I know it's from the probiotics and not something else? However, when we stopped the mucus got better. Go figure. Blah...


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

So, if sugar caused feelings of rage and anger, as well as headaches...what would that mean? It's not all sugar either...certain things...and not even sugar itself, but things that are sweet. I can put brown sugar in my quinoa flakes in the mornign with no issue. I eat 2 Enjoy Life cookies and headache city. This didn't always happen, just when I started eating more sweet things. Same with grape juice. But dark chocolate does nothing to me. Some allergy free chocolate chip cookies I made did it too. There is nothing similar between the items that do it other than sweetness.

Also, I was told I had an acidic body and should take bentonite clay internally to help with it. Anyone know anything about this?

Thanks


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
So, if sugar caused feelings of rage and anger, as well as headaches...what would that mean? It's not all sugar either...certain things...and not even sugar itself, but things that are sweet. I can put brown sugar in my quinoa flakes in the mornign with no issue. I eat 2 Enjoy Life cookies and headache city. This didn't always happen, just when I started eating more sweet things. Same with grape juice. But dark chocolate does nothing to me. Some allergy free chocolate chip cookies I made did it too. There is nothing similar between the items that do it other than sweetness.

Also, I was told I had an acidic body and should take bentonite clay internally to help with it. Anyone know anything about this?

Thanks










Forget I said any of this. We just met with our wonderful kinesiologist today and she told me that sugar is keeping me from healing my gut. I need to stay away from it all







:







: I CRAVE sugar all day long. Oh boy!


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

Anyone interested in Blue Ice Pure Cod Liver Oil? It's the kind that everyone here raves about. It's the 8 fl. oz. "orange essence" unopened. I bought it and had the kinesiologist test it, but she said the Nordic Naturals tested better for me.

I would want what I payed online...$16, but I would throw in free shipping. Anyone interested?


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## LeifnMe (Apr 27, 2007)

I have been battling th Leaky Gut, Candida, and Multiple Chemical Sensitivity for the past five years (symptoms before that but was unaware what was going on). I was super sick before I got pregnant and was working with a Naturopath who helped lots. 6 weeks before I found out I was pregnant I got positive test results for Leaky Gut and immediately started herbal/diet/supplements treatment. As my pregnancy progressed I kicked most of the herbs (controversial) but remarkable I began to feel much better. In fact I felt better then I remember feeling in all my life. After baby was born my gut began to decline and baby began to show signs of food sensitivities as well. To summarize I've done what you all are doing; trying EVERYTHING. I have to say I fell 'better' than I did pre-baby but my health is still laking and babe is not 100% either.

So my question goes out to all of you; has anyone tried or had luck with doing a gentle detox WHILE Breastfeeding? My son is 22 months old and we plan to Bf as long as it takes.

What I am thinking of trying is the usual Candida/TED diet along with taking Essiac tea (starting with once a day and working up), probiotics, fish oil, and possibly Grapefruit Seed extract and Oil of Oregano (although I'm not sure....worried about overloading...I want to keep it simple)

Any feed back would be great. I have checked out the Essiac tea (Burdock root, sheep sorrel herb, slippery elm bark, and Turkish rhubarb root) and it is safe for baby. The concern is what stored toxins might come out in my milk. Will his body be able to handle it if he is also taking Essiac?

I have been taking GSE and oil of Oregano for, well pretty much my sons whole life which seems to keep the yeast in check to a degree, but it is deffinatly still their in excess. I am ready for us to be well!! I am sick of being sick and seeing my little baby cry when he poops (fortunately it doesn't happen as often now)!!

Help, is there any hope of getting well while still Bfing or doing I need to wait until we wean?


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

As you may know, detoxing is not recommended while you are breastfeeding. Loosing weight is also not recommended because EVERYTHING will come out in breastmilk, including toxins that you have stored in your body and fat. Unless you are with an experienced expert of detoxing, I don't recommend it. However, the experienced expert will probably recomend you not to detox, unless you can store up enough b-milk; so you won't nurse while you are detoxing. I wanted to detox, but wanted to continue breastfeeding. I never used or owned a bottle. I recommend keep doing all the supplements you have mentioned above. You can add digestive enzyme with your meal (start with small doses.) And focus on the candida/yeast diet.


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## TushasAmi (Feb 2, 2007)

Hi, its me with another question









At what age do you start giviing CLO directly to your child?


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## TushasAmi (Feb 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
As you may know, detoxing is not recommended while you are breastfeeding. Loosing weight is also not recommended because EVERYTHING will come out in breastmilk, including toxins that you have stored in your body and fat. Unless you are with an experienced expert of detoxing, I don't recommend it. However, the experienced expert will probably recomend you not to detox, unless you can store up enough b-milk; so you won't nurse while you are detoxing. I wanted to detox, but wanted to continue breastfeeding. I never used or owned a bottle. I recommend keep doing all the supplements you have mentioned above. You can add digestive enzyme with your meal (start with small doses.) And focus on the candida/yeast diet.

Is taking digestive enzymes between meals for yeast considered detoxing? I was considering doing this but am worried about how safe it is while bf'ing.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TushasAmi* 
Hi, its me with another question









At what age do you start giviing CLO directly to your child?

When they start eating some solids...9 months or so for my DD.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
As you may know, detoxing is not recommended while you are breastfeeding. Loosing weight is also not recommended because EVERYTHING will come out in breastmilk, including toxins that you have stored in your body and fat. Unless you are with an experienced expert of detoxing, I don't recommend it. However, the experienced expert will probably recomend you not to detox, unless you can store up enough b-milk; so you won't nurse while you are detoxing. I wanted to detox, but wanted to continue breastfeeding. I never used or owned a bottle. I recommend keep doing all the supplements you have mentioned above. You can add digestive enzyme with your meal (start with small doses.) And focus on the candida/yeast diet.

I have to disagree with this to some degree...it's generally not a good idea to detox while BF'ing, but keep in mind that if you change your diet to a healthier diet, for example, you will be detoxing to some degree. Or if you add a herb for liver support, you are probably detoxing to some degree. So...while a massive or intense cleanse would be a bad idea, I think it makes more sense to be realistic and realize that some detoxing is going on no matter what positive changes you do. It's just a matter of taking into consideration how bad the situation is (whether possible side-effects of a particular "detox" program outweigh the problems you're having), and considering possible effects of any changes you make. That's why it's generally best to start slowly to minimize the effect on a nursing babe. A toddler can probably handle a lot more than a newborn as well. JMO


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeifnMe* 
I have been battling th Leaky Gut, Candida, and Multiple Chemical Sensitivity for the past five years (symptoms before that but was unaware what was going on). I was super sick before I got pregnant and was working with a Naturopath who helped lots. 6 weeks before I found out I was pregnant I got positive test results for Leaky Gut and immediately started herbal/diet/supplements treatment. As my pregnancy progressed I kicked most of the herbs (controversial) but remarkable I began to feel much better. In fact I felt better then I remember feeling in all my life. After baby was born my gut began to decline and baby began to show signs of food sensitivities as well. To summarize I've done what you all are doing; trying EVERYTHING. I have to say I fell 'better' than I did pre-baby but my health is still laking and babe is not 100% either.

So my question goes out to all of you; has anyone tried or had luck with doing a gentle detox WHILE Breastfeeding? My son is 22 months old and we plan to Bf as long as it takes.

What I am thinking of trying is the usual Candida/TED diet along with taking Essiac tea (starting with once a day and working up), probiotics, fish oil, and possibly Grapefruit Seed extract and Oil of Oregano (although I'm not sure....worried about overloading...I want to keep it simple)

Any feed back would be great. I have checked out the Essiac tea (Burdock root, sheep sorrel herb, slippery elm bark, and Turkish rhubarb root) and it is safe for baby. The concern is what stored toxins might come out in my milk. Will his body be able to handle it if he is also taking Essiac?

I have been taking GSE and oil of Oregano for, well pretty much my sons whole life which seems to keep the yeast in check to a degree, but it is deffinatly still their in excess. I am ready for us to be well!! I am sick of being sick and seeing my little baby cry when he poops (fortunately it doesn't happen as often now)!!

Help, is there any hope of getting well while still Bfing or doing I need to wait until we wean?

Did you start feeling better almost immediately after stopping the herbs during your pregnancy? If so you might want to consider the Failsafe diet as there's a good chance you are sensitive to a natural food chemical called salicylates that are highly concentrated in herbs. People with persistent yeast issues often tend to have food chemical sensitivities, and once the food chemical load is lowered the yeast will disappear as well. Here's a couple of links on this:
www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.com
www.fedupwithfoodadditives.com


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TushasAmi* 
Is taking digestive enzymes between meals for yeast considered detoxing? I was considering doing this but am worried about how safe it is while bf'ing.

See my other post on detoxing while bf'ing...IMO they're fine, just start slowly (maybe 1/2 cap per day and work your way up to your desired dosage) to minimize any effect on your nursling.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

mum2be: My kids can eat corn syrup, rice syrup, maltodextrin and dextrose with no reaction, but no lactose from cow's milk and fruits that are high in sugar like grapes, apples, banana, etc or honey. They react very badly to beets sugar. Of course, we don't eat corn or rice syrup and such since we are still on SCD, and those are junk foods anyway.

I found out all the foods that caused reaction to my kids by writing everything down they ingested and came to contact with. It's a work, and it may take a while, but you may find a connection to which sugar source more specifically with the food diary.

If you want to stop the craving for sugar, you need to decide on a date to commit yourself to say good bye to 'sugar', and start your day with a large glass of clean water with fresh lemon juice. Hot water with lemon is yet better. Another thing is to get a juicer, and start juicing veggies. If you use organic veggies, the vit and enzyme content are much higher and better for your digestion. You can also drink the water you've used to steam veggies, too.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

Leifinme: My approach to health is 'gentle and wholistic.' When I read about disease about gut d/o, I knew it was not something you can take a prescription for 10 days and be cured. Matter of fact, there is no medication you can take to cure leaky gut (in my opinion.) Some may take more aggressive approach to correct the condition, but I think "time" is needed for the body to heal. And, I "listen" to the body by looking at the symptoms and changes. You are alrady doing various herbs, GSE, oil of oregano and probiotics: Give your body a chance to work it out. I personally will not detox while breast feeding because I will not risk the baby's liver and kidney to get over loaded. The clay, and other supplements works differently, but clay works the best with a use of psyllium which I will not use it with the inflamed gut like ours.

I now detox in various methods since I am done bfing. I think detoxing is important just as much as staying on the good diet, but my recommendation to you is to focus on an anti-candida diet that excludes grain and sugar. And, start taking a small doses of digestive enzymes with your meals. Focus on eating green veg, drinking clean water with fresh lemon juice, learn to make bone broth and home made yogurt. Again, this is only my personal opinion, so please take it as such.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

TushasAmi: Taking the digestive enzyme at any time isn't like detoxing, as I understand it. Karen DeFelici, the author of "Enzymes for Autism and other Neurological Condition" explained at her conference "Enzymes works like (the game), Packman. It searches for the specific element and breaks it down." For an example, protease will only recognize protein, and when it finds the protein, it will break it down into pieces. So, if you take enzyme before or with the meal, it is to help the foods you ate to break down to smaller pieces. And, if the foods that you eat are broken down to the small pieces (as healthy, functional GI can do), it can be eliminated through the bowl better: A proper channel of 'detoxing.' And your gut will not be left with undigested foods for the yeast and bad bacteria to thrive on.


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

I took digestive enzyme religiously with meal while I was bfing. I had fewer incidents with clogged glands when I was on the enzyme. I believe enzyme was helping my digestion, therefore my lactation improved. I always got clogged glands when I ate carbohydrates, like rice. I suspect different people will get clogged gland from different food: Depending on what you are able to digest. I believe lactation is also the same as digestion: You can absorb only what you can digest and you can lactate what you can digest.

It took me a long time to dry up my milk. I was able to squeeze Bmilk 8mo. after I stopped nursing. When I cheated with a few rice crackers, wild or brown rice, or a muffin caused a clogged gland. I always thought it was due to my inability to digest rice/grain. Which is one of the cause for my yeast over-growth and leaky gut.


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## LeifnMe (Apr 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greencat* 
Leifinme: My approach to health is 'gentle and wholistic.' When I read about disease about gut d/o, I knew it was not something you can take a prescription for 10 days and be cured. Matter of fact, there is no medication you can take to cure leaky gut (in my opinion.) Some may take more aggressive approach to correct the condition, but I think "time" is needed for the body to heal. And, I "listen" to the body by looking at the symptoms and changes. You are alrady doing various herbs, GSE, oil of oregano and probiotics: Give your body a chance to work it out. I personally will not detox while breast feeding because I will not risk the baby's liver and kidney to get over loaded. The clay, and other supplements works differently, but clay works the best with a use of psyllium which I will not use it with the inflamed gut like ours.

I now detox in various methods since I am done bfing. I think detoxing is important just as much as staying on the good diet, but my recommendation to you is to focus on an anti-candida diet that excludes grain and sugar. And, start taking a small doses of digestive enzymes with your meals. Focus on eating green veg, drinking clean water with fresh lemon juice, learn to make bone broth and home made yogurt. Again, this is only my personal opinion, so please take it as such.


I have been doing all of the above (not joke, every last bit). I make my own yogurt and butter from local organic RAW milk (much easier to digest than pasteurized dairy). Which though many yeast diets say to stay away from dairy al together I really attribute the addition of Raw dairy products to our diet as being one of the big things that has helped us in healing, crazy as that may sound. I was a vegan for many years but after much time on extremely strict diets my body was not digging the no dairy or meat, despite my calculated effort to get enough protein and complete proteins.
Anyway, I agree with your approach I too am very in tune with my body and adhere to a VERY gentle approach to healing. I have to admit that I get a bit impatient sometimes though and am liable to changes gears quickly and try a new diet or research a new possibility. This past year for a while I was researching Celiacs and almost hoping that was our problem not the leaky gut...seems like a much more simple answer (though incredible challenging to deal with) than the vague and ambiguous possibilities one is handed with LGS.
I will be contacting my naturopath and midwife to see where they weigh in on this one. I just was wondering if anyone had tried or had luck with Essiac tea and LGS. For that matter has anyone actually healed LG 100% ? Is there hope of really being better and not battling food or your gut (at least the little buggers in there) ???!!!


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## LeifnMe (Apr 27, 2007)

Thanks for the websites. With having Multiple Chemical Sensetivity I deffinetly avoid the food additives (and everything else chemical) but I didn't realize that you can react the same way to whole foods...that there are the same compounds...it makes sense. Well something more to look at. Thanks!


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

I totally understand being frustrated to a constant battle and thinking about a chronic condition like leaky gut (that involved eating.)

Regarding dairy, I think some people have no problem with dairy, but many of us do. Most of the books I've read about yeast controlling diet recommend "no dairy." Yet, they don't specify what kind. I think raw or cultured dairy are extremely beneficial. I found only the SCD and Karen DeFelice in her book (a little bit) will explain that.

I do better being a vegan, but I still eat grass fed cows, fish, eggs, honey, etc. However, the most important is not eating the junk: Choose better fat, oil, meat, water, salt, etc. The only dairy I eat is the SCD home made yogurt and a very occasional goat cheese; BUT, I only take D/F probiotic in a capsul when I am detoxing









I do use various herb teas, but I only drink one kind at a time, depending on my symptom(s).

Boy, I dream of curing the leaky gut 100%. We started with a long list of food sensitivities, but it has shrunk. I have not tried any grain on the kids, yet. I function better with no grain or dairy in my diet. I think I will always be like that. I think my kids may be like that as well. I'd be happy as long as my kids stay healthy to pursue their happiness. Besides, what is healthy about eating gluten anyway. There are other super foods that will be good for us (it's just very time consuming in the kitchen though....)


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## LeifnMe (Apr 27, 2007)

Ahhh..yes the time in the kitchen. I have to say it has made me a much better cook! Interesting that you don't take probiotics except when you are detoxing...I take copious amounts. What is your theory?

I am realizing that though I eat better than most people who say they eat REALLY well i have relaxed on a few things and need to step up the anti again. It had gotten to a point for me this fall where I was so obsessed and had been for years about every thing I put in my mouth that I felt like I was starting to really go crazy and maybe my and my sons symptoms were all in my head. I backed off a bit and relaxed into a diet that would mostly be considered a yeast diet.

OH...how I crave to just feel well and for my son to be well too!!!


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## greencat (Jul 8, 2005)

LeifnMe: I do eat my yogurt everyday, but I stop eating yogurt, and just take probiotic capsul when I am detoxing. Sorry to have confused you.


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## TushasAmi (Feb 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mum2be* 
This happened with dd's last round of probiotics which claimed to be dairy free on the website (and label too!) and then under the ingredients on the bottle said: Contains dairy and soy







:







: I was so mad, I called up the company and complained. They said if she reacts to it, I can get my money back. Well, she's had mucus in her stools before, so how do I know it's from the probiotics and not something else? However, when we stopped the mucus got better. Go figure. Blah...

Out of curiousity, which probiotics were these? I'm on the lookout for other dairy free infant probiotics and I don't want to repeat the experience you had.

I stopped giving her the BabyLife and the mucous seemed to get better. But my dd has always had mucous, too, so I'm just trying to interpret varying degrees of severity. Blah is right!


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## mum2be (Jul 6, 2005)

I thought they were the Natren bifidus ones, but they sent me Ethical Nutrients (which is their brand too?) dairy free bifidus.

We are having no trouble iwth the Custom Probiotics brand. Although quite expensive, the kinesiologist checked them and said they were 100% beneficial for us.


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## Cello (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi Ladies,

Is our may thread up?

For the dry eczema, what is everyone doing topically? I remember EPO, or what that oral? We have dry, persistently flaking skin that is scarring -- which is concerning to me b/c it makes the itching worse. I have tried mineral oil, Vaseline, etc...even olive oil didn't help. Any thoughts?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cello* 
Hi Ladies,

Is our may thread up?

For the dry eczema, what is everyone doing topically? I remember EPO, or what that oral? We have dry, persistently flaking skin that is scarring -- which is concerning to me b/c it makes the itching worse. I have tried mineral oil, Vaseline, etc...even olive oil didn't help. Any thoughts?

You can use EPO both topically and internally. My DD's eczema is pretty mild but lanolin works really well on it.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Here's the link to the May thread http://www.mothering.com/discussions...66#post8051266


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## TimeToHeal (Oct 4, 2017)

I have need to heal my gut too. I'd turned to ultra-pasteurized goat milk for this, before other options were known:

I have personally become ill multiple times from Meyenberg's goat milk / Meyenberg goat milk (refrigerated, full fat, purple-pink and white printed cardboard containers). The cardboard containers are frequently (as in every week or every other week) 'puffed out' in the grocery store, before the the expiration date. I kept trying it as there was no other source I knew of. I have now given up on it. Getting a pathogen or contaminant or whatever they are placing in their milk that is getting me ill (it is not every carton that does this, and I never, ever drink from a 'puffy'-looking carton) could damage my health worse than the horrid experience of being poisoned few months from the stuff (it's happened 6 times in 1.5 years). This was what I read about Meyenberg's in another forum. It seems to explain why I see the puffiness and why Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and other places I've bought it from continue to get puffy and toxic product from them. Internet search these words to see the source of the quote:

"I can't drink the stuff. That brand was the first goats milk I had ever tried and I nearly puked. It turned me off goats for years. After tasting some raw goat milk I decided goats weren't so bad. And now I love them and their milk.

Having been in and around commercial dairy goat farms I can tell you some of the many reasons the milk taste so different from the milk you will get from a backyard farm.

#1 . Over pasteurization. They cook the heck out of it.
#2 . Mastitis. Many of the farms do not treat mastitis until it gets bad or sometimes not at all unless the goat is bleeding into the milk. 
#3 . Heavy use of Swiss breeds. Many Toggenburg and some Alpines have strong milk.
#4 . Deficiencies. Many animals just can't get what they need out of a one size fits all mineral.
#5 . Dirty conditions. You simply can't keep a pen clean enough when you have hundreds of goats in it.
#6 . They are unhappy. A stressed goat isn't going to give you its best.

I have seen one time where one of the does teats rotted off and the whole half of the udder was on its way out but they still milked the other side since it wasn't bleeding or spitting chunks into the milk. You could smell it from feet away. That's not going to make the batch of milk taste good I can tell you that much. As long as the cell counts in the bulk tank are low enough and there is no contaminants in the pasteurized milk they are A-Ok to sell."


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## sarahsimmons (Oct 18, 2017)

Goat milk does have its distinctive smell and taste. I also dont like it, but it has some very unique health qualities


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