# I want a kid.



## crimson butterfly (Apr 5, 2006)

I don't know where else to put this and if this sort of post is considered spam I'm really sorry. I haven't ever visited these forums before so I'm not really sure.

I know a lot of the typical responses I'm going to get are "babies don't need to be having babies" or blah-blah. but you know, honestly? I just want you guys to hear me out. I'm almost 17 years old and for some reason, for as long as I can remember, the only thing I've wanted is to raise my own kid. I've been taking care of my 4 year old nephew since birth and that just makes it worse. I mean, I've definitely spent more time taking care of him then his mom (my sister, who would gladly hand him off to me and then leave the country and never come back). He even calls me Mama. I have a boyfriend who is 22 and I know it would be really easy to talk him into just 'accidentally' getting me pregnant because he is pretty much the same way that I am about having kids. I don't know why I am like this. It's driving me crazy. I work with kids and have since I was 12 to try and just wait it out til I'm an adult but it never works. I was a CIT at a summer camp for 7 weeks (m-f, 7 AM - 4 PM) last summer and it didn't help me one bit, just made me want a kid of my own more.
I'm moving in with my boyfriend this summer anyway. He'll be done with college and I'll be done with high school (I skipped 2nd grade). My parents already know of this plan and support it. I guess I feel like I'm getting into the state of mind where I'm thinking "I'm gonna have a baby and nobody can stop me" which is bad, I guess. I realize I'm making the wrong decision here.

But I can't stop. I really don't know what to do. Any advice about just... letting myself be a kid would be greatly appreciated, I guess. I just want a kid of my own so bad.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

There's nothing wrong with being a young mother. There are plenty of us here (I got pg at 18). Young mothers can be awesome, caring, loving, wonderful mothers. But what worries me is this...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crimson butterfly*
I realize I'm making the wrong decision here.(

Deep down you obviously feel you are not ready, or you wouldn't have made that comment. Take some time to think it over (I mean SERIOUSLY think it over, not just daydream). Talk to your boyfriend about things like costs (and then double what you think a baby will cost), work, daycare, how it will change your relationship, etc.

I am not going to say "you're still young, you have plenty of time" because, really, that's not a guarantee and I hate it when people say it to me. I will say that a baby will change your life forever and you will probably never been 100% ready for that change.

My advice would be to put yourself in a position where you can care for a baby alone (don't count on boyfriend to stick around because many don't and you do not know whether he will or not. You may think he will but nothing is a guarantee). Get a good job, go to school further if you need to, build a good support person (ETA- I meant to write *system*, not person), and then consider having a baby.

Good luck!


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

I think it's great that you want to have children and be a mother. I can remember being 17 and I wasn't at all familiar with children, except for having been one, and when I did have a child, I was woefully underprepared. At least you have one up on me for knowing about children!

I used to work at a school for pregnant and at risk teens, and I had a lot of students who felt like you did. They really loved the idea of having their own baby to love and hold and help grow up. Many of these young women did, in fact, have their own babies while they were my students. And, all of them wished that they could have been a little older when they did so. All of them.

Did they love their babies? Certainly. Did they wish them away? Certainly not. Were they good mothers? For the most part. BUT, and it's a pretty big BUT, they all wished they had waited.

I know that wisdom is not able to be communicated, so this may not have any bearing on your decisions, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Take what you wish to use for your life.

It's interesting that you think you are making the wrong decision to have a baby. Why do you think it's the wrong decision? Just because society says so? Or is it something else, inside you, that's letting you know it's "wrong"?

One question, what about having a child interests you so much?


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Things for you to answer for yourself:
1. Will you and your boyfriend be making enough to support yourselves and a child? Preferably, does your boyfriend make enough to support three of you?
2. Can your relationship handle the stress of a new home and starting a new life all at the same time?
3. Can you afford to have a baby, that is, the actual cost of pregnancy and childbirth?
4. Do you smoke, use drugs, or drink?
5. What's your support network like?
6. Do you have any savings to fall back on in case of job troubles, decisions to go back to school, accidents, what have you?

My inclination would be to move in together, get married (or make a concious thought-out decision not to), and then consider bringing a child into a settled life. I think that you and your boyfriend should to work out your relationship with each other before bringing a child into the equation. Now, since you're both on board with the whole kid thing, work together to make your life able to accomodate a child. The pregnancy should *not* be 'accidental' and it should also not be the reason for your relationship.

Notice that I am not questioning your ability to raise a child.

There are just a lot of posts on here from people who ended up with problems because their lives weren't quite ready for a child. Since you're still in the planning stage, take advantage of that time.


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## lauraess (Mar 8, 2002)

Crimson Butterfly< (luv your user name btw!) first, it is really good of you to acknowledge and talk about this-- because that's definately the way to process it in a healthy way.









Second, Having a strong urge is wonderful- I bet you will be a super mom. There are lots of moms who started young and i always get the impression that it was basically 'their calling'. A lot of society views having kids and raising them as unimportant work and if you do it than you either 'deal with it'-- as in usually as little as possible and write it off as one of those other ''Things'' in your life you HAVE. Some women have a keen ability to nurture and others dont. If we are lucky we have enough to raise half decent kids. Maybe you have that special talent just busting to come out.

third, The urge together with your need to control it a little longer are both coming from a gut level. Your intuition is strong as well here and you would be smart to follow it as rushing into anything is always at least a little risky.
Time flys. The right time WILL come.
Your free time as a young person will never again be like it is right now.
Enjoy it at least a little longer and you will be a better mama for it!


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

*


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

weird, and i'm not sure how to delete all of these windows!! sorry!


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

*


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

I'm 30-ish







and have wanted a baby for many years now (no kids yet)... nothing wrong with that, we're human! I have made myself wait until my financial life is in order, and also to give myself enough time to travel and just be "me" first before having another person who depends on me.

Honestly, it sounds like you're going to be an amazing mother when you feel 100% ready... until then, especially during ovulation, these boards help ease my urges! I don't think you'll be criticized here, no worries







hang in there!

edited to add: about ten years ago I got a puppy and she really does wonders for my "parenting" urges! not *quite* the same but it helps







:


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

Dh and I wanted kids right away. We started dating when I was just turning 15 and he was just turned 17. (just over 2 years apart). I worked with children fromteh time I was old enough to do so. I graduated HS early and when I started college (at only 16) I was taking child developement classes. When I was 18 I was already a pre-k teacher. Dh and I did go ahead and have children early. Our oldest was born when I was 18. Our third was born when I was 22 turning 23. There are definate plusses and negatives to having children early. I was definately "mature" for my age already and still am (I'm 25). Taking care of them wasnt an issue. And I know we'll have more energy that many of our older counter-parts when the kids are older. The parts that we didnt really think about was time to just "be us" as adults. While parting and such has never been our thing, I think we would have benefitted from having a little time to go out with our friends and *having fun* before children. Meaning not have to find a sitter or worry about eveyrthing. I absolutely adore my children and wouldnt change having them ever, but think it could have been good to have a couple years or even just one year where Dh and I lived together ourselves first. I also was not able to finish college because it was just not doable with the kiddos. We couldnt afford childcare and college for me and I couldnt work, go to school and care for the kiddos without getting burnt out. I WILL be going back to school, just delayed.

Anyways, just wanted to give you my mini story as another view point. Nothing wrong with wanting to start a family, I just advise to try to also think about how you might look back on it in a few years. Will you regret not having any time to be an adult before including children? BTW, from the time I was tiny I always knew my *job* was going to be mommy. Nothing wrong with that.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

From what little I can infer from your post, not knowing you personally or anything, I'm sure you would be a great mom, mostly because you want a baby for the right reason--lots of people have babies just because "it's what you do" or some such. I would however recommend that you wait until you're 18 to conceive, or at least make sure you're 18 when the baby is born. Being a new mom is hard enough without the legal complications of being underage. Also, I don't know what the laws are where you live, but you should make sure there's no chance of your boyfriend being prosecuted for statutory rape. I would also recommend getting married, unless you're philosophically opposed to it for some reason.

You don't say whether you're planning to go to college, get a job, or what--will your boyfriend make enough money to support you and a baby?

I can definitely empathize with you--I wanted to have a baby from when I was about 14, but I waited until I was much older. I don't regret waiting, because the experiences I've had as an adult that I couldn't have had as a parent are part of who I am, but I certainly don't think that waiting is objectively better.

Please don't disparage yourself and your amazing natural abilities by buying into society's crap propaganda about young mothers. You are *not* making the wrong decision and you do *not* have to let yourself be a kid. Corporate America may want to treat you as a child, but you're not, you're a competent young woman with a maternal instinct.

Here's an opinion piece about the benefits of parenting young: http://www.frederica.com/writings/le...pregnancy.html

So anyway, my advice is to wait a year for legal reasons and then go for it







. Good luck.


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

I wanted to second a pp comment about giving your boyfriend and yourself time alone, as a couple, before introducing a brand new person. I met my husband when I was 31, I accidentally got pregnant (on the pill!!), and we decided to get married. We love each other deeply, truly -- but that first year was soooooooooooo hard. We fought like cats and dogs, were constantly stressed out, and almost didn't make it. And again, I'm in my 30s and my husband is now 41.

The stress off both a new baby and a new home is huge, especially if you're still getting to know the person you're married to (or beginning to live together with).

I love my kids and am very grateful for my family. We are all close. However -- I do wish there had been more "us" time as a couple.

So that has nothing to do with age, but is relevant to your situation nonetheless.


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## graciesma (Oct 16, 2005)

.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *graciesma*
I decided to wait until we had 5 figures in the bank to get pregnant. I have a big problem with welfare.. OH MY GOD I SAID IT!!


I honestly don't know what to say. I've typed and deleted and typed, then deleted. You honestly sound very priviledged, and certainly proud of it!

I hope you never have to be without your safety net; it sounds like you have major issues with money...


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## graciesma (Oct 16, 2005)

.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *graciesma*
What is your problem with me? We are not privlaged. As a matter of fact I have had a job since I was 14. My point to my post was this no matter how ready you think you are finacally things will always pop up unexpectedly. I was saying even though he makes a decent wage there will almost always be things to consider. I cannot beleive you would pesonally attack me!!! I was simply trying to break it down and let her know that things arent always what they seem. Oh and just to clarify my problem with welfare is not that people are on it but that some people need more help than they will ever get and the gov doesnt seem to know what the cost of living! You really are out of line attacking me like that! You didnt even seem to understand what I was saying. I also dont understand what makes you think I am so "privelaged" Everything we have inclunding his PRIVELAGED job was worked for the hard way I ASSURE YOU. Also can you clue me into what my safety net is you speak of?

Oh, so your issue with welfare is that people don't get enough money? If that is true, then you seriously need to consider editing, because that is not how it comes across at all. Your entire post is a bit convoluted, and if you wish to not seem like your "privlage" is showing then you need to be a bit clearer.

I don't have any issue with *you* personally. I did not attack you in my post, though I felt aggressively about what you wrote.

Specifically I don't get what you meant when you said the following things:

Quote:

Not being married youll be left in the dust your not entitiled to ANYTHING.
and

Quote:

I decided to wait until we had 5 figures in the bank to get pregnant.
This one I get, but do you honestly not see the priviledge in this statement? If you don't then I think we're not at a place where we can discuss this anymore...


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## Village Mama (Jul 22, 2004)

I was 20 when I had my first. I really lucked out. My partner and I hardly knew each other when I became pregnant (I must point out as well that living together is soooo much different that just dating!) We really were on the same page.... we found out AFTER I was pregnant. I really feel lucky, because it may have turned out differently.
The hardest thing for us has been the financial part. Once you have children there is a constant financial demand that makes it pretty tough to save up .I was finished half of my university degree, and my partner had no post secondary education. He is now 30 and working towards an electrical apprentaceship... somehow on 20 thousand Canadian yearly we need to save up for his schooling and the two months a year that he will be off of work. Our first son will be starting kindergarten next year. My partners schooling will be a 4 year plan. Our son will be almost 10 when we will be making a living enough that we can save to buy a home. The last 5 years have been great... we can live off of very little, and are very happy as a family. The stresses come when our vehicle breaks down or we need dental work .... or anything extra really! My partner has been unemployed for periods. We have had to ask for help and be on employment insurance.( and really struggle through the winters... which is when work around here is lacking... heating is expensive!) Our family has food allergy issues which really bump up the grocery bill.( and limit the help we can get from a food bank in emergencies) I dont know what we would have done if either of our children had been born with a disability. My schooling has been put off now for at least another 4 years!I cant imagine now having a ten year old and 40 thousand dollars worth of student debt. I do not regret having children, but wish that I had made the decision based in reality rather than in that romantic biological urgey feeling!!! But then again.... if I had known I may have put it off and I wouldnt have these two amazing children in my life! Life is unpredictable.... all of the planning in the world wont keep you safe from the unexpected.
I hope you have a great support network! Most of my family disagreed with my decision to have children and dumped me when I needed them most.


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## graciesma (Oct 16, 2005)

.


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## ryleeee (Feb 9, 2005)

i don't really know how to respond to you, graciesmom.
i'm agreeing with onlyboys though.

to the OP, i hope you come back and see this is a (mostly) loving community that supports having babies young =D or old, whatever your preference!

i'm a young mama, i'll be 22 in a couple weeks and my husband is 22 as well.
i don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to have babies.
it's all i ever wanted.
we get by just fine on what we make (i stay home with haye full time), and we do not have a huge excess of money.
i love my family and my life.

i think it's a huge decision, weigh it out and finish high school.
then do whatever your heart tells you is right.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

OP, www.girlmom.com is a great resource and might be of help to you in navigating this decision.


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## EllasMummy (Dec 10, 2003)

To the OP,

I can totally understand how you feel. The only thing I ever wanted to do with my life was be a mother. I started to think about it at 14 and I certainly felt ready at 17. Whenever I thought about what job I wanted to do nothing appealed except being a Mama. I decided to train to work with children and then I worked in day care until I had DD.

I didnt have a partner who wanted children when I was 17. He was 17 too and just not ready. When we were 21 he decided he never wanted children and although I loved him dearly I knew that I would never be happy so we split up.

When I was 22 I met DH. In the end circumstances meant that I was 27 before I had DD. And although the wait for her seemed endless I am pleased that I waited. Now I have a 3mo DS too and my life is more wonderful than I ever imagined it could be.









I think that there is nothing wrong with feeling ready for a child at 17.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

I began having urges for my own child when I was 12. I began feeling really serious about it when I was 18. But I went to college, started my career, waited for my partner to finish school and start his career, and bought a house before I stopped using birth control at age 29. I DO NOT REGRET WAITING AT ALL!!! In those 11 years, I learned a LOT, not just about child development and parenting philosophies but also about life, love, health, and responsibility. I could have been a fine parent when I was 18. I am a much better parent than that now.

The experience of going to college as a full-time student living on campus is one that you just cannot have in the same way when you are middle-aged or when you have to get home to your family every night. There's a Rush song that says, "We're only immortal for a limited time," and that's how I feel about my college experience. I am incredibly, immeasurably richer because of it. It would not have been the same if I hadn't been able to throw myself fully into it and soak it all up.

I didn't see Gracie's Ma's original post, but I will say: While you certainly don't HAVE to have money saved in order to become a parent, it is a great advantage because it gives you and your partner the option of reducing work hours, choosing lower-paying but more family-friendly work, or quitting paid employment altogether to care for your child, without having to live in poverty or worry about how to pay your bills. If you can lead your life without going into debt, you need SO much less money in the long run, which gives your greater freedom in your careers all your lives.

So, my advice is to continue your special relationship with your nephew, volunteer with kids a lot (be a Girl Scout leader, Big Sister, etc.), read read read about parenting, and meanwhile develop your relationship with your boyfriend to make sure it is strong and stable enough to support a child. Talk with him about how you would raise your child and about how both of you were raised, and learn from each other. Use birth control scrupulously until you reach the point in your life where you don't feel you have to pretend to anyone (friends, family, doctor, ESPECIALLY not your boyfriend!) that you're pregnant by "accident".








I know it's hard to wait! But there are so many advantages!


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## Bia (Oct 21, 2004)

Quote:

Talk with him about how you would raise your child and about how both of you were raised, and learn from each other.
Please, please take this advice! IMO, your age has nothing to do with how happy and successful a parent you can be. But your happiness as a parent will have everything to do with your co-parenting relationship with your boyfriend. Are you on the same page about finances? Will you have to work or be able to stay home with baby? Do you agree on what you will not compromise about? What about the major parenting issues like how long you will breastfeed, whether either of you believes in sleep training and letting baby cry it out, gentle discipline or spanking, vaccinations, circumcision, what kind of schooling, where you will live, how you would share custody if you ever broke up, etc? Please talk all of this out, and make sure you either agree or can reach a compromise you both can _peacefully_ live with. Make sure you share the same parenting philosophy and can be in a secure place as a mommy.
Good luck to you... I understand wanting a baby so badly.
Also, do you think any of this has to do with badly wanting your nephew to be yours? Do you feel that he could be taken away from you? Would there be any way for you to adopt him when you are legally an adult?


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## snuggly mama (Mar 29, 2004)

I married my high school sweetheart when I was 18, and had our first dd just after I turned 20. I always knew in my heart that I wanted to be a young mama. I loved being around kids, had intense "baby lust" in that year before I got pg, and I honestly felt like denying my urge to have a baby was attempting to defy my destiny. If I had known how truly, amazingly difficult it was to actually be the mommy, I think it would have made me take a deep breath and think hard about that decision. I had done TONS of babysitting from very early ages and felt very confident around babies, but when it's your baby, it's such a supremely different experience.

I love my children, and I wouldn't trade them for the world. I love my dh, and we have been happily married for nearly 13 years now. I don't think that young motherhood is a bad thing. I think, though, that it comes with some powerful emotions, some difficult situations, and an unbreakable commitment. It's so important to think about the other pieces that matter to you for your future as well. When you visualize a future with your baby, what do you see around you? Taking time to think about what kind of life you want to bring your baby into can help you work on building that while still honoring your desire to have children.


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## BamBam'sMom (Jun 4, 2005)

I had my son young and I knew, in the back of my mind, that it was a somewhat selfish thing to do. We weren't, still aren't, financially secure. I've had to ask my mom for a lot of money. I don't regret having him young, but I wish we had been more secure.

The small problems dh and I had before ds got worse after having him.

I have always felt old for my age. I had a boyfriend the same age as yours when I was your age. I thought he was "the one" and now, looking back, he was the most self-centered jerk. it's only been a few years, yet I'm a much more confident person now. I let him treat me like crap. I'm not saying that's you, but think long and hard. if you say you know it's the wrong decision, there must be a reason, whether or not it's something you want to acknowledge. I have made many bad decisions by ignoring my gut feelings.


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## crazyeight (Mar 29, 2006)

At least be 18 legal stuff is hard under that age and you don't want to spend money to be emancipated by the courts when its only less than a year away.
Have a plan. Live with the guy first you may find that its HEAVEN or maybe not...thats a HUGE factor.

If after a "trial" period 4-6 months after you move in with him and/or by your 18th b-day then decide if hes the one. If you are ok with marriage take that step as it is smaller than children. Legally marriage "binds" him to take care of his children and family (you know what I mean...). Again only if you both are agreeable to marriage in the legal sense.

Lets say you turn 18 in 6 months and you have already moved in with boyfriend. At that time say honey we are doing great would you like to make a final commitment cause i am ready. if you are both WONDERFUL!!

after that "big day" passes then set a date that its ok for conception. it could be 2 months it could more or less whatever. that way you have something to look foward too not just someday.

finances are hard yes....life can be difficult yes...you guys will fight yes...not everyone will support your decision...thats why its YOUR decision.

I am 20 years old. Pregnant with my 2nd child. Married to a man that I had NEVER lived with and we weren't even in a relationship when my son was concieved or born and yet here I am with him....makes you wonder.

My point is that while we are no where near financially stable we still are together, loving, fairly stable, safe environment. You ever head that older song about living off love? It matters more than money.

Your a smart girl. Just by seeking out a mommy forum, recognizing that your bf and you have similar views but haven't gotten pregnant yet without more input shows that you can take care of yourself, him, and a child.

Good Luck








Wanted to add that when people say raising a child, having a baby is hard: its hard cause you have another persons life in your hands, because you have so much love for them that it breaks your heart to not know the answers NOT because its always pull your hair out, just fed up, sleep deprived hard. In fact I would say that the actual "parenting" part is easy!!


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I think in a perfect world, many of us could be mamas at 17 and be fine. Have the support we need to remain "whole" and do well by our children. But the reality is that the world is imperfect, and even those of us who waited longer don't have all the support that we need. There are a lot of ways that we have to adjust our instincts (and callings) in order to get by in this life. I think this is one of those things -- it might work out fine, but probably its better to wait.


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## indiegirl (Apr 15, 2002)

I want to echo the wise words of Envirobecca. She has great stuff to say about college and what I consider to be a very important time in life.

I wanted kids from about 13 on. I took care of my baby sister 1/2 time while my step-mom and dad worked. I wanted a baby because it would officially make me an adult, give me social status, be something to love unconditionally, be unconditionally loved, enable me to focus my attention onto someone else instead of myself.

Plus, my mother was 17 when I was born. Surely I turned out okay. Except for the fact my mom bailed on me when I was seven, that arguement kind of works.

I think what having kids that young does to a woman is exclude her from opportunities both social and financial, that are really important. I believe every woman should be empowered to financially support herself and children, without the help of anyone else. It doesn't matter if you don't actually support yourself (my dh provides most of our financial support right now), but if he died tomorrow, I could get a job within a week that would support my three kids and I. I don't worry about our future because I know I could handle anything that came my way: death, dh leaving me, dh becoming injured, etc...

I think college and/or travel is really important after high school. I think it's good to get some perspective on life by going away to college or spending time traveling or working someplace outside of where you grew up. Perspective is priceless and it gives you the gift of finding out who you really are.

As you know, there is no going back. Once you have kids you are forever changed. You face a different set of choices. I would love to see everyone have the most possible choices in life before choosing a path.

I have three beautiful daughters whom I love and wouldn't trade for the world. I am glad I waited until I did to start having kids, but I wish I would have given it even another year. (Had #1 at 25)

Good luck.

Jesse


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## 2Sweeties1Angel (Jan 30, 2006)

I was a couple of weeks away from 20 and my BF (now DH) had just turned 17 when the twins were born. His age was such a PITA because he couldn't even buy the babies medicine when they needed it because he wasn't old enough! How freaking ridiculous is that???? It was also even harder on us when one of the boys died at 2 mos 29 days because the State tried to have us charged with murder (DS died from a vaccine reaction) and because DH was so young, he had to have a court-appointed Guardian Ad-Litem (sp?) in addition to our paid attorney. Because he was young and had a GAL, the courts didn't look at us as favorably as they might have if we were older. It was even said one day in court by the CPS attorney, "They have no business having kids because they're too young to take care of them". Of course my lawyer ripped her a new asshole over that and *made her cry!* but still.

I don't think you're too young to have kids, but you should consider the unexpected things that could happen. Would you rather they happen while you're legally too young to deal with them on your own, or would you rather wait another year until you're legally an adult?


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

When I was in high school my coach asked us all what we wanted to do when we graduated and became adults. I said without hesitation that I wanted to be a mommy. And I meant it. I also knew I didn't have any money or education and it would be really hard. I grew up without money and my dad didn't have an education so I know what a burden that can be on a child (being made fun of for my generic brand clothes, not being able to take horse lessons like I wanted to while my cousin got her own horse).

I went to college but during the summers I worked at the YMCA summer camp because I love kids. I learned some parenting skills but it was great to be able to send the kids home at the end of the day, kick back, watch some TV, and go out with friends. I graduated college and worked for awhile. Almost all my income went to a down payment for our home. THEN I quit working and became a full time stay at home mom. I was 26.

Being a mom is HARD. Even with the easiest baby, the physical demands are hard. You will be sleep deprived. You will have to give up a lot of things that you want to do for yourself. You and your bf may have the dynamics change between you and it's hard to recover from. My dh and I have been married for 10 years and the kids have both brought us closer in some ways and driven us apart in other ways. The needs of the kids get priority over our needs as a couple many times. Kids get sick and need to be held all night long while they cough and vomit over you, and in the morning you have to still care for them and you don't get a break. It's grueling.

Or you might have a difficult pregnancy with bedrest for half of it, and have a baby with special needs, like I did. You just never know what's going to happen and it's better to be prepared. Our special needs child has been very expensive financially and emotionally for us. She's going to be okay in a few years but man, I'm so glad I was able to SAH with her and that dh has good medical insurance through his work.

OTOH motherhood is so wonderful, fulfilling, and life-changing. Being a mother has made me grow as a person, perhaps as much as my children are growing up around me. I hope that one day you can become a mother and experience the joy of it. There's nothing like having a little one crawl into your lap and say they love you so much. There's nothing like having a toddler run over and hug you and only want you to hold them.

I would just urge you to wait awhile longer, get settled in your relationship and education or job training, save up some money, travel, whatever you want to do.

I want to go back to college and maybe be a nurse after my experience taking care of my daughter's special needs. I will have to wait. I can probably find someone to watch my kids while I go to class, but what about study time? What if they get sick and I have to miss classes because daycare won't take them when they are sick? What if one of my kids gets a bad case of croup or RSV and has to go to ER right before my exams the next day? It's hard with kids. Not impossible, but much harder. I want to be able to give 100% to my kids right now and not be torn in so many directions.

Good luck to you!


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## AmyAngel (Dec 3, 2004)

My initial reaction is, if you have to pretend it's an accident, it's not the right thing for you to do.

You only get to be young ONCE. PLEASE enjoy it as much as you can. Travel, if you can. Learn new things. Go into being a mom with a better sense of who YOU are. Do things you'll enjoy telling your kids about later!

I can totally understand desperately wanting a baby. I wanted a baby starting around high school age, but knew I wasn't ready. I babysat and worked at daycare during summers off from college - but I am SOOOOOO glad I went away to school. Just that little bit of independence totally changed who I am, and made me a much stronger, more independent person.

I am now 32 (still single), and the baby lust has gotten stronger, but I am committed to getting myself in a better situation before having a child. In the past 7 months I have gotten a better job and bought a house. I am now working on paying off debt (again. I was debt-free until a period of unemployment and a dying car brought more into my life. And of course I'm not going to be paying off the house, just credit cards), and saving up money. I hope to begin TTC next winter, but that will totally depend on how my debt-reduction and savings are going.

Since this will be a planned pregnancy, plan for it now! (Which is obviously what you are doing, way to go!!!) Make sure you take a really HARD look at how much money you are going to need, and what kind of a support system you have. Read a lot here at Mothering.com - think about what you will need to care for not only a baby, but a 3-year-old, 10-year-old, etc. I just checked yesterday and found that my insurance does not cover homebirths - they specifically exclude it. That's more money I need to make sure I have saved up before TTC, since I'll have to pay that out-of-pocket. I'll need a good breast pump since I'll have to work. Daycare is expensive. What if there's a medical problem? I'll need to be able to cover my bills for a couple months I think - what if I have to go on bedrest and can't work?

You don't have to be rich or have tons of savings to have a child, but sit down and really THINK about if you can (or at least have the potential to) financially and emotionally handle all this BY YOURSELF. Your boyfriend may be the one. I hope so, and that you have a long happy life and wonderful family together. BUT, read a while in the "single parenting" forum - many of the moms in there thought they were with "the one" too! They are doing a great job of parenting as single moms, and I'm sure you can too - but better to have your eyes open! There is never a guarantee in life - people leave, die, change. YOU may change and decide to leave. If your boyfriend was to suddenly disappear, where would you go? How would you feed and provide for your child?

That said, there is nothing wrong with being a young mother. I'm sure you'll do great! But please really think hard and make sure this is the right thing for you. If you can wait even a year, and live as an adult for that time - it WILL change you. I was a very different person at 21 than I was at 17, and I'm even MORE different now. (It keeps getting better!)

What has helped me in the last 2 years has been to set concrete goals to work toward - I am actually DOING SOMETHING to get me to the place where I can be a mom. I need to sit down and do that again. "I will pay $XX per month on each credit card." "I will put $XX each month in savings." "When the credit cards are paid off and I have $XXXX in savings I will begin TTC."

Try to take at least a little time to be YOU, before you are "Mom!!!"

And whatever you decide, I hope you have a wonderful healthy pregnancy and child.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Wanting to be a mother is natural (and beautiful). How wonderful that you already feel the tugs at your maternal heart!!

But remember that you have another 30 years of fertility ahead of you. The mark of maturity is being able to sit back and think things through without making rash decisions. Belive me... I KNOW what it is like to have baby fever. But if you wait, it will be all the sweeter.

I have to agree with Graciesmom that it was very comforting to have financial security before having a child. We were 31 (me) and 46 (dh) when we had dd 4 years ago. We were in a position where I was able to give up a VERY lucrative job to stay home. People can call it "privilege" all they want, but the practical aspects of parenthood definitely include money. You can't ignore it.


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## DoubleOven (Jan 7, 2006)

.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Well, I disagree with y'all about college. I was a full-time college student and graduated, but I didn't do any of the college-student culture things. I didn't live on campus, I didn't go to parties, I didn't get drunk or have sex with anybody, I never went to spring break, etc. I didn't hate college the way I hated k-12, and there were things I enjoyed, but it wasn't a fun time for me. I wasn't there for fun.

There are tangible benefits to going to college and getting a degree. I don't believe there are tangible benefits to "student culture." The entire purpose of it seems to be to infantalize young adults and to get young adults to infantalize themselves. Getting post-secondary education is good advice, but I believe immersing oneself in student culture is not, especially for someone maternally-minded.

I don't really agree with the cost issue either. Yes, children cost money, but there are ways to minimize the cost, many of which are associated with an ap/nfl lifestyle. I saved money by nursing (formula is expensive), cloth diapering (disposables are also expensive), being a sahm (daycare... *really* expensive), homeschooling (no tuition or school costs), avoiding unnecessary medical treatment (healthcare--really expensive, even with insurance), and generally avoiding the mindset of "needing" massive amounts of stuff. It's true that there are some unavoidable costs associated with children--food, clothing, some medical care, possibly education--but I don't buy the mantra that "children are expensive!"


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## KatSG (Aug 11, 2003)

You've got some great advice, Crimson Butterfly (don't know what the skirmish was about, seems to be deleted now). I wasn't a young mom, but wanted to be. I can tell you a few reasons why, in hindsight, I'm glad we waited, though I think we could have made it work any way it happened. Keep in mind I'm not telling you what to do, just sharing my experience so you can consider it as you make your decision.

1. I'm glad I finished college. Just having that degree opened doors for me. Soon I will stop working, but those 10 years of working have allowed me to build a great network of people so I can choose the work I want to do and make it work around my life. You can often do that without a degree, sure, but I'm glad I did it this way because I know I'll be able to do work I love and not have to just take any job if things get tight.

2. I had deep relationships with a lot of kids I babysat when I was a teenager and was always around kids. But looking back, I know that even with all that experience I am a much better parent now than I would have been when I was younger. There really is something different about parenting than working with kids or babysitting. For one, you get them at all hours of the night! ;-) And another is that I realize that everything I do has an affect on her and every decision I make has to take her well-being into account. It has a profound affect on the path of your life and you become a different person for it. I'm not sure I would have had the confidence to accept that when I was younger and see the joy in it.

3. I got the playing out of my system. Wish we'd done more traveling, though. We got to know each other. The first year was really hard and dh dealt with it in a strange way. I'm grateful we had 10 years behind us as a solid foundation so I knew we could get through it. 5 years earlier we may not have done so well.

4. And I think the MAIN reason I'm glad we waited...most of the other moms I know are my age and most of the younger women I know are childless. It's been a godsend to have this support network of moms in my neighborhood and my city. But then, I know there are lots of young/single mom networks as well. I'm just obviously not a part of them. If you do decide to jump into parenting, I strongly suggest you find a group that can support you and understand what it's like to parent at the age/stage in life you're at.

Another thing...while I talked to dh about having kids when I was 24 when I had this big URGE (I was 28 when we got pg), it was a struggle and he wanted to wait and while I was upset, I knew I didn't want to force this. I'm glad we waited until things were pretty settled and having a baby just felt natural. I'm not hearing that sense of being settled in who you are and your life in your post right now...perhaps you could get quiet and still and really listen to what it will take to make having a baby feel natural and easy to you and not like you're satisfying a big urge, know what I mean? My nanna used to tell me, about choosing a husband, to get your life where you want it and then find someone to share it with. I didn't really listen to her, and found out what she meant by that--it's hard to grow up with someone, but it is possible. I'm at least glad I listened to her about having a baby. Bring a baby into your life after it's pretty much the way you want it is much easier, IMO.

Good luck to you, whatever you choose! (And stick around! This is a great community!)


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## zjande (Nov 4, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca*
So, my advice is to continue your special relationship with your nephew, volunteer with kids a lot (be a Girl Scout leader, Big Sister, etc.), read read read about parenting, and meanwhile develop your relationship with your boyfriend to make sure it is strong and stable enough to support a child. Talk with him about how you would raise your child and about how both of you were raised, and learn from each other. Use birth control scrupulously until you reach the point in your life where you don't feel you have to pretend to anyone (friends, family, doctor, ESPECIALLY not your boyfriend!) that you're pregnant by "accident".








I know it's hard to wait! But there are so many advantages!

I think this advice is right on!! There has been so much good advice in this thread. Like a lot of you, I also was overcome by the Baby Urges at a very young age, at puberty really. I did end up becoming pregnant when I was 16 & giving birth to my daughter. I wanted her sooo very much, she was the light in my life & I was awestruck by the coolness that parenting is. BUT. It is tough! Having a child that young definitely puts you on a different life path. I was veryvery VERY poor for many, many years. That is so hard. Her bio-dad turned out to be a total loser, never got a job & never showed interest in bonding with his dd, so I was a single mama. Nothing in my life has made me cry like the financial struggle I've had. Literally.

I think that #1 You need to feel absolutely sure that you are ready to sacrifice some or all of these thing: travel, high school/college, affording a car, affording a home, parties, concerts, etc, being able to relate to other girls your age, sleeping in, thinking of yourself first, dating around, your body as you know it now, freedom to be spontaneous. And then ask your boyfriend what HE thinks about forgoing some of this stuff.

And second, what Envirobecca said (which is so important I'm going to put it here AGAIN!







): "..read read read about parenting, and meanwhile develop your relationship with your boyfriend to make sure it is strong and stable enough to support a child. Talk with him about how you would raise your child and about how both of you were raised, and learn from each other." Sooo important! I know first hand how possible it is to be blinded by baby lust & forget how imperfect your partner is, or how he's really into circumcision but you want a baby badly enough that you'll just "worry about that later". I'm not suggesting that you are being blinded, just pointing out that it's something I'd recommend thinking about to be sure that it's not happening to you!









And 3rd, I'd consider the financial matters. How will you & your partner afford a family? Will you stay home? Work? Is your partner responsible with his finances & stable at his job? And what if you end up a single mama? Do you have a "back up plan?"

These are all things that I wish I would have thought about before I had my dd when I was a teen. Instead I learned all those lessons during the years after she was born. In all honesty though, I don't think it would have stopped me!









You sound like you will be a rocking mama. I'm sure you will have sooo much fun discovering how fun it is to create a baby person! But, it will be SOOOO much MORE fun, I promise, the more prepared you & your partner are.







It will be worth it!! And whatever happens, don't let anyone tell you that being a teen mom is "bad"! They can be just as great or better as any other aged mama!!


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## indiegirl (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna*
The entire purpose of it seems to be to infantalize young adults and to get young adults to infantalize themselves. Getting post-secondary education is good advice, but I believe immersing oneself in student culture is not, especially for someone maternally-minded.

I don't really agree with the cost issue either. Yes, children cost money, but there are ways to minimize the cost, many of which are associated with an ap/nfl lifestyle. I saved money by nursing (formula is expensive), cloth diapering (disposables are also expensive), being a sahm (daycare... *really* expensive), homeschooling (no tuition or school costs), avoiding unnecessary medical treatment (healthcare--really expensive, even with insurance), and generally avoiding the mindset of "needing" massive amounts of stuff. It's true that there are some unavoidable costs associated with children--food, clothing, some medical care, possibly education--but I don't buy the mantra that "children are expensive!"

RE: college. I think you are generalizing about student culture. I know I was personally not talking about the student culture of parties and sex and booze. I studied abroad. I hung out with really smart people. I wrote. I was the most creative I've ever been. I learned how to think outside the box. College social scenes offer a lot of different options.

RE: money. You are allowed to be a sahm because someone is supporting you, I'm assuming. That costs money. It then becomes a choice you are making. Someone w/no higher education stands less of a chance of getting to make that choice to sah. It's expensive to be a sahparent in that one of you isn't working. Some people can afford it, some can't. You're lucky to get the choice.

Jesse


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

I am a young mother (first at 19, second at 20!) and I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't feel that waiting would have made me a better parent. Luckily, I have a wonderful husband who doesn't mind working to support us so I can be a SAHM and college student.

As for college, I go to get an education, not to be social. It would be the same even if I didn't have kids or a husband. In fact, I think having a family makes me a better student.

Cost. Yes, children are expensive, but not so expensive that you can't get by on a minimum wage income; especially if you practice NFL.

If you truely feel you are ready for children, go for it. I wish you the best.


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## NinaBruja (Jan 19, 2004)

i think if you feel ready then go for it.
by the time i was 16 i already had all my wild days out of my system, had stopped smoking, drinking, ect...and starting work as a live in nanny. i had this hollow place in me it felt, where i just needed something to care for. i had a rabbit and an iguana and i really babied them.
i babysat as much as i could...it was crazymaking trying to do the 'right' thing and wait.
i ended up getting pregnant at 16...and miscarrying. it was horrible...
then i started actively ttc at 17, but nothing came of that. i remember hearing that one no doubt song a simple kind of life and broke down crying in the grocery store at this line: 'i always thought id be a mom, sometimes i wish for a mistake, the longer that i wait the more selfish that i get, you seem like youd be a great dad' i resolved that period in my life by declaring myself defective and moving painfully on. its really annoying that no one seems to take the pain of the experience seriously since i was younger.
fast forward to me at 20, i had been living with dp for a few years and the woman who moved in next door had a baby who she let cio. the sound of crying would waft in through our bedroom window and i could not sleep. my whole body ached. my head was just ringing and with every inch of my being i longed to go pick that baby up. id sit in bed and obsess. ive never felt so strongly about anything in my entire life. then i started vomiting violently. i was so afraid if i aknowlegded the pregnancy it might go away. but it didnt, shes now 2 1/2.
even now i really wish i had my baby at 16. i was as ready then as i am now and goodness i could have used the extra teenage energy.
i guess im just ranting and telling my life story to tell you i know how it feels to just know your calling is to be a mother. im 23 and some people think thats too young so you cant please anyone lol just do whats in your heart.


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## zjande (Nov 4, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna*
I don't really agree with the cost issue either. Yes, children cost money, but there are ways to minimize the cost, many of which are associated with an ap/nfl lifestyle. I saved money by nursing (formula is expensive), cloth diapering (disposables are also expensive), being a sahm (daycare... *really* expensive), homeschooling (no tuition or school costs), avoiding unnecessary medical treatment (healthcare--really expensive, even with insurance), and generally avoiding the mindset of "needing" massive amounts of stuff. It's true that there are some unavoidable costs associated with children--food, clothing, some medical care, possibly education--but I don't buy the mantra that "children are expensive!"

But see, there's a *huge* difference between the costs of having a baby when you are 16 & live with your parents & when you are 30 & live in your own place. When I became pg at 16, I owned a leaky waterbed & a dresser. Period. I moved out into the cheapest apt in the whole city, it was mouse infested, leaked, the carpets were rotten, the place was later condemned. I had nothing! Sure I washed my own diapers, but I had to pay for the coin op laundry machines! And sure I breastfed which was free, but I had no couch or chair to sit in to do so! I couldn't afford dishes, silverware, a table, furniture, bath towels, a CAR (I didn't have on of those for many years!). See what I mean? And food. Before reproducing I ate cheap crap. When I was pregnant & breastfeeding, & then feeding my dd, I had to actually spend money on FOOD, not Ramen & candy bars. That was also a major cost I wasn't prepared for.

This is pretty OT, but since I'm reliving memories, I lived off of $535 in welfare per month (I had to have a zillion roomates, many of which I absolutely could't stand, who abused their kids or stole from me) & $111 in food stamps. This was 14 years ago though. But I also lived in the SF bay area!! It's total craziness for me to even think about now!!







Now I feel like we couldn't even *survive* on less than $4,000 per month!! Haha. My how times change.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Aubrey, you are so beyond cool it can't even be put into words.
I, too, had a baby at a really young age. I was 17 when my dear son Gabriel was born. His father didn't find out about him for almost 2 years because we broke up after I got pregnant but before I knew, and he moved away. By the time he found out, he was married and had another kid. In the meantime, before I had his help with child support, I lived on $440 a month from welfare, then later got a part-time job in the mall food court making $6.50 an hour while I was taking 15 credits at community college and I saw my son for an hour in the morning and an hour at night. Every day. And my car was older than I was and it broke down on the freeway leaving us stranded after dark. Scary.
I'd definitely wait until you have financial stability, if only to save you the struggles a lot of us young moms have gone through.


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## zjande (Nov 4, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DreamsInDigital*
Aubrey, you are so beyond cool it can't even be put into words.
.

Wow, I am??? Haha! Thanks!!


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## DoubleOven (Jan 7, 2006)

.


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## sarahmae1 (Nov 11, 2002)

Your post reminds me of myself when I was your age... I always loved children, and wanted to have a baby of my own. My mom had my youngest brother when I was 14 and so I cared for him a lot. He had colic and was a very spirited toddler, but I still loved taking care of him and thought it would be great to have a baby. I also did a lot of babysitting and worked at a daycare center as well. I knew I should wait until I was at least graduated from highschool though, even though I could've gotten pg before that I'm glad that I waited a bit.

I did have my first child (which was planned, btw) when I was 20, in college, and engaged to my now-husband. In a lot of ways, it has been wonderful and I don't regret having my first child young at all... however, it is HARD! Soooo much harder than I ever thought it would be, even with all of my experience with babies/children/etc. It's just been soo tough to be the one responsible 24/7/365. Not only that, its the household stuff too that you might not be thinking of but stuff like dishes, laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc. - it NEVER ends! I never get a break, or time to myself, or time to go out alone or anything like that.

I love my children, they are my world, but its very hard! Not to mention the fact that we have been sooo poor, there were times that we couldn't afford groceries or to pay our bills. Luckily, my husband graduated college and got a job in his field and we are doing okay now but we really struggled for a couple of years, and even now when unexpected bills, medical expeneses, etc. come up it can be very tight. So in a way I do think it would've been better for us to wait until we had both grauated college to have children. I'm a stay at home mom now and still have not finished my degree, which is fine because I can always go back later but money wise it probably would've been better to wait.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Brigianna wrote:

Quote:

I was a full-time college student and graduated, but I didn't do any of the college-student culture things. I didn't live on campus, I didn't go to parties, I didn't get drunk or have sex with anybody, I never went to spring break, etc. I didn't hate college the way I hated k-12, and there were things I enjoyed, but it wasn't a fun time for me. I wasn't there for fun. There are tangible benefits to going to college and getting a degree. I don't believe there are tangible benefits to "student culture." The entire purpose of it seems to be to infantalize young adults and to get young adults to infantalize themselves.
Wow, you sure went to a different college than I did! Sure, there were some parties and drinking, but what I meant about student culture is being among people whose daily life is focused on learning. It was great to be able to stay up late discussing fascinating ideas with smart people from all over the world! When we did do wild-and-crazy things, often they were things I've never had an opportunity to do anywhere else, like freezing things in liquid nitrogen (a tank of which was freely accessible 24/7 for no apparent reason) or making an enormous silly banner to hang off a building. Also, there were all kinds of opportunities to get involved in political and social causes, much more easily than you can in regular life when meetings and transportation aren't so conveniently arranged.

If, as you say, you didn't participate in campus culture, you're not really in a position to judge, are you? The exciting thing about living on campus is that you are part of a community where all kinds of experiences are available in a very small geographic area: not just parties but lectures, art exhibits, exotic festivals, films, concerts, plays, games and dances and sports and foods you never heard of before, workshops teaching all kinds of skills, and communal areas where people don't feel it's "inappropriate" to strike up a conversation with a stranger who's doing something interesting. If you want to get a group of people together to dye Easter eggs or go in on a bulk order of food or march on Washington or play with a parachute or make a quilt, a college campus is one of the easiest places to do it.

Anyway, my point is that when I say "the college student experience" is valuable, I am not talking about being a Girl Gone Wild. However, Crimson Butterfly, if you ever want to be a GGW now is the best time to do it, rather than having children first and then embarrassing them by drunkenly flashing people when you're 40.


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## indiegirl (Apr 15, 2002)

Envirobecca, you rock.


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## la mamita (Apr 10, 2005)

.


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## snuggly mama (Mar 29, 2004)

I agree that the college piece of this is really important, though my personal focus is less on the culture of college than the benefits of having that education. My first dd was planned, born at the end of my junior year in college. I was a commuter student at a very small, women's liberal arts school that I adored. We thought a lot about how we would manage having a baby and me finishing school, and I really did think I could have it all. I didn't realize that I wouldn't want to leave my sweet baby girl. I did finish college -- I worked part-time, dh worked full-time, and my dad watched dd for us (bless him!). We were absolutely, completely, totally exhausted. Dd was high-needs, and there was many a night where I nursed her with one arm while writing a paper with the other. I sacrificed my teaching degree because the 50 hrs. a week of student teaching wouldn't have worked for me. I graduated with honors and an English degree, something that makes me quite proud. But I would never, ever recommend it to anyone! I missed hanging out in the library talking with friends. I missed the single-minded focus on learning. I love dd, and I love what I was able to accomplish at that point in my life -- but it would have been a heck of a lot easier if I had finished college first!


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## AmyAngel (Dec 3, 2004)

RE college,

Envirobecca, you said exactly what I was thinking. It wasn't partying or drinking that changed me (I did very little of the former and almost NONE of the latter - alcohol wasn't allowed on campus anyway!), but the community and environment. Being in charge of myself, having to make my own decisions, and having the FREEDOM to make my own decisions. Meeting new people very different than the people I knew before. Learning new things, both in classes and outside of them. I LOVED living in dorms! Random groups of people joining on projects or to watch movies, those late at night deep conversations with roommates when you all really should be sleeping, the creativity - someone on the hall was always in the middle of some interesting project, there was always an art show, concert or play going on. If I got bored or lonely, there was always someone in the common area watching a movie or something who was happy to have company. Having more choice in my education, rather than being stuck with the one or two options offered in high school.

Going away to college made me a more openminded, tolerant, independent and definitely more mature person. I treasure that experience.

Also it helps a LOT in job situations. My best friend took some classes at community college, but never finished. She's making decent money at her job (she's been there 6 years), but the situation isn't that great and she hates it. However, she's been told repeatedly that she will have to take a huge pay cut to find another job, because she doesn't have her degree. She's basically stuck in a job she hates. It doesn't happen to everyone, but a degree will often help you find a much better job.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I think you should get married before you have a baby. If you don't love or trust your boyfriend enough to get married, would you really want to be saddled with him for the rest of your life? When you have a child with someone, you have a life-long relationship.

I also think it would be a good idea to either finish school or get most of the way through it before you get pregnant. Being a mom takes a lot of energy. You also need what I think of as life insurance: the ability to make a living. If what you want is to be a mom and take care of someone else's needs, you ahve to be able to take care of their financial needs, too.

Understand: I think it is actually a good idea to have children young. I waited until I was 36. I'm going to be 40 on Monday. I don't know if I will get to have another baby. I am very blue about it. I wish I had gotten married right out of college and had kids in my early 20s.

If you can't wait the four or five years it will take to line up the marriage and education ducks, though, you aren't patient enough to have a child. There is so much waiting! Oh man! Everything takes forever.

There are a lot of good career choices if you love children. Being a day camp counselor is nice, but you can have impact an lot of children's lives if you go into early childhood development or psychology, nursing, public health, library science, elementary education, medicine--you know there are a lot of things that children in our world need. If you care deeply about this, there is a lot you can do, beyond giving love to your own biological child.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USAmma*
Or you might have a difficult pregnancy with bedrest for half of it, and have a baby with special needs, like I did. You just never know what's going to happen and it's better to be prepared. Our special needs child has been very expensive financially and emotionally for us. She's going to be okay in a few years but man, I'm so glad I was able to SAH with her and that dh has good medical insurance through his work.

This was instantly my first thought when I read the OP. Pregnancy, birth, and babies do not always go "as planned." If you are in a position where you CAN plan your pregnancies and your babies, please, have safeguards in place first. I can't imagine being a young single mom to a special needs child. I know women certainly do it and rise to the occasion, of course. However, I'm 32, married, and was married for 8 years prior to having my son. We had a good financial status and both had college degrees. Having ds rocked our world in ways you can't even imagine. I repeatedly find myself thanking God we waited to have him, as we would have been so unprepared for him if we'd had him earlier.

Babies and children are a blessing. Certainly. Planned or unplanned. And waiting for your life to be perfect before you conceive a child is ridiculous, you'll be waiting forever if you do that. I'm just saying, have some safeguards in place. A degree. A job. A long term, committed partner who will be there for you through thick and thin. Support of family and/or friends. Decent finances. Parenting isn't easy, but there are some things you have control over NOW that can make it a little easier. Just wait a while. Get your life together first. Then have a baby.


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## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

I had my first at 28 and am pregnant with my 4th at 36. I obviously wasn't a young mother, but I too always wanted kids. I was a Sunday school teacher, preschool teacher, and at age 20 I was a live in nanny for a family of three (including a newborn) in Boston. None of those things come close to comparing to real life with your own child.

I didn't go to college straight out of high school -- I had family issues and had to get a job and support myself. Throughout the years I have managed to get my Associates degree after my dh and I met and we moved in together, and I was able to quit my job, get a new one that would allow me to go back to school. I was in my mid to late 20's at the time. Then we decided to have kids and I decided to stay home with them. I've been an sahm for 8 years now and it's the best job in the world.

My biggest regret is that I didn't get to go straight to college and get my degree after high school. My reason wasn't because I had a baby, but because of other family issues. Nonetheless, I wasn't able to finish my college education at a time where I could focus on getting my degree, and not have to deal with a world of distractions. I have never been able to take classes at a time where I didn't have many more responsibilities that often had to take priority. Now, when this child in utero finally gets into school, we have to find a way to pay Catholic school tuition for four children as well as find money for me to finish my last year or so of college. I will be in my mid 40s when I finally get to start my career.

The thing that scares me the most is that if something were to happen to my dh, I am totally untrained to go out into the workforce for any job other than retail (I was a retail manager in my early and mid 20s before I met my dh.) Even then, those hours are the worst and would not begin to support me and my four kids. Not that teaching (what I went back to school for) pays more but at least I'd have summers off and not have to pay for child care all summer. I really wish that I had an education to fall back on, and not have to worry about finishing my degree before being able to go find a job.

I also regret that I don't have those memories of college, of making friends, sharing ideas, hanging out with people you connect with. I hear my dh speak of his college days and I always feel this pang of envy that I will never be able to experience those years where my education is the sole focus of my life, no distractions. You have the opportunity to do absolutely anything with your life -- including being a mother, but becoming a mother now could change many of the other opportunities available to you. You could take a full load and get your schooling done in less than 4 years and then focus on becoming a mother or starting a career. The opportunities are endless.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

I didn't mean to suggest that student culture was nothing but drinking and partying, but I do think it's inherently infantalizing. And personally I would never associate it with freedom or thinking outside the box or tolerance or being around smart people. But everyone's experience is different I suppose. I just don't think the atmosphere of the academic pedestal-prison can compare with the liberation of independence and reality, which is what I think Crimson Butterfly wants. If she's interested in getting a degree, she could go to a community college or take classes online.

I'm not disparaging those who choose to do the student culture thing, just the idea that it's for everybody. There are benefits to having children at the height of your fertility as naturally intended.



_Quote:_

_RE: money. You are allowed to be a sahm because someone is supporting you, I'm assuming. That costs money. It then becomes a choice you are making. Someone w/no higher education stands less of a chance of getting to make that choice to sah. It's expensive to be a sahparent in that one of you isn't working. Some people can afford it, some can't. You're lucky to get the choice._

How does a college degree enable someone to ba a sahm? If she isn't in the labor market, her value as a worker is irrelevant. I don't regret going to college. But if I hadn't, being a sahm would have been easier--no student loans!

Quote:

_But see, there's a *huge* difference between the costs of having a baby when you are 16 & live with your parents & when you are 30 & live in your own place. When I became pg at 16, I owned a leaky waterbed & a dresser. Period. I moved out into the cheapest apt in the whole city, it was mouse infested, leaked, the carpets were rotten, the place was later condemned. I had nothing! Sure I washed my own diapers, but I had to pay for the coin op laundry machines! And sure I breastfed which was free, but I had no couch or chair to sit in to do so! I couldn't afford dishes, silverware, a table, furniture, bath towels, a CAR (I didn't have on of those for many years!). See what I mean? And food. Before reproducing I ate cheap crap. When I was pregnant & breastfeeding, & then feeding my dd, I had to actually spend money on FOOD, not Ramen & candy bars. That was also a major cost I wasn't prepared for._
Right, living cheap is still expensive if you have nothing. Crimson Butterfly plans to live with her boyfriend, who will be a college graduate, so I was assuming she would have some basic setup.

Of course, when I was pregnant, I loved to eat ramen and candy and applesauce and fishsticks...

Quote:

_This is pretty OT, but since I'm reliving memories, I lived off of $535 in welfare per month (I had to have a zillion roomates, many of which I absolutely could't stand, who abused their kids or stole from me) & $111 in food stamps. This was 14 years ago though. But I also lived in the SF bay area!! It's total craziness for me to even think about now!!







Now I feel like we couldn't even *survive* on less than $4,000 per month!! Haha. My how times change_.
And there's no way you could get $535 per month in welfare today, either--it's all been "reformed"...


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## indiegirl (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:

How does a college degree enable someone to ba a sahm? If she isn't in the labor market, her value as a worker is irrelevant. I don't regret going to college. But if I hadn't, being a sahm would have been easier--no student loans!
Nope, not what I meant at all. What I mean is that you are lucky enough to have someone supporting you so that you get to choose to SAH (I'm assuming someone is supporting you--either a significant other or a trustfund or the state or whatever).

Most women worldwide cannot just "decide" to SAH because they think it's the best parenting choice. They are too busy working hard in support of their family. I think we forget how lucky we are to have the chioce, even if it means we live in "poverty."

Jesse


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## indiegirl (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna*
I didn't mean to suggest that student culture was nothing but drinking and partying, but I do think it's inherently infantalizing. And personally I would never associate it with freedom or thinking outside the box or tolerance or being around smart people. But everyone's experience is different I suppose. I just don't think the atmosphere of the academic pedestal-prison can compare with the liberation of independence and reality, which is what I think Crimson Butterfly wants. If she's interested in getting a degree, she could go to a community college or take classes online.

I'm not disparaging those who choose to do the student culture thing, just the idea that it's for everybody.

See, you say you're not disparaging college but the picture you paint is tainted by your obvious distain for college. The whole vibe you're putting out about college life and those who flourished within the walls of academia kind of makes me grumpy. Don't go to college, fine. But don't color someone else's experience negative because you have this idea about all colleges, an idea which is not universal.

Case in point:

Quote:

I just don't think the atmosphere of the academic pedestal-prison can compare with the liberation of independence and reality, which is what I think Crimson Butterfly wants.
Academic pedestal-prison? The semester I earned a 4.0 in college, I lived in the north of Scotland and studied intentional living at the Findhorn Foundation. Our "final" was a sweat lodge with our professors. All of us naked, drumming, dancing, under the brightest stars in the sky in the most beautiful place on earth.

Quote:

If she's interested in getting a degree, she could go to a community college or take classes online.
It's all about showing her the whole spectrum of experience. I would argue that any online course is not comparable to an engaging, inspired professor who challenges you to think and speak and write clearly. Online learning has it's place and I don't discount it, but it is NOT the same as a full college experience.

Jesse


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## crimson butterfly (Apr 5, 2006)

Wow! Well first of all I want to say thanks and







to all the mamas that replied to my thread. I never thought that it would get to 3 pages. I want you all to know that I have read each and every one of your posts and they have made me think a lot. I guess I have the ability to listen to what people tell me and I really needed to hear a lot of what you guys said.

To clarify. I said I thought it was a bad decision on my part because I know that a lot of people in my life wouldn't agree with it. My mom had her first child at 18 and hated it. I kind of feel like I am the opposite of her, so who knows. She would hate if I had a kid anytime before 25. That's just the way she is. My mom affects a lot of what I do and how I think. If anything keeps me from having a baby it will be the thought of disappointing her. That's the same reason why it would have to be an 'accident'. I don't really care what everyone else thinks but the idea of hurting my mom kills me.

My boyfriend and I have been together on and off since I was 12/13 years old (I had lots of boyfriends in the 'in between' times when we were broken up), which sounds pretty bad, I know because he was 19 at the time.







we've had lots of problems in the past but I love him now. We plan to get married in the future. I personally have a pretty negative opinion of marriage and it will be awhile before I actually tie the knot with him; think years and years.

I have my college education set out for me. Not to sound like a brat or anything but I have college savings that my parents have been saving up for me since I was born. I'll be going to the community college but not full time, mostly because I don't LIKE school and I never have. Through my high school, I have almost already completed my first year of college too, in advanced classes. (I will enter college as a sophomore sometime within the next couple years and probably be done in like 4-5 years anyway as a part time student). My boyfriend will be going to medical school (pretty much already paid for too) and he's going to be an orthodontist. He comes from a VERY wealthy family and I guess it runs in the family - I don't think he will ever be anything except financially secure. All of his schooling and my schooling will be done in this city so it's not like he or I will have to be seperated physically because of it.

I don't think I would try to have a baby right as soon as we moved in. Maybe like 6-8 months, so that when I actually had the baby, I'd be close to or already 18 years old. It's true that I never know what will happen with my boyfriend and I but for right now, I feel pretty secure that our relationship is not ending anytime soon. I know it sounds stupid, like teenage romances can't last but I'm not stupid. I've had a lot of bad experiences with guys and my guy is very different from them. It's true I don't know what he will do, but the same goes for guys of any age. My dad upped and took off when I was 12, after being married to my mom for 32 years. So you never know for sure. I talked to him on the phone for the first time like 5 months ago and he said it was cause the weather was bugging him.

I'm not going to rely on my BF 100% for everything but I know that if we had a kid, he would help me take care of it, whether we stay together "forever" or not. It's just the way he is. Honestly, he is a really cool guy. I've known him all my life. I know maybe that I should "Experiment" more and learn more about the guys of the world, or whatever but the other experiences I have had with guys have been nothing but negative so far.

Anyways... this post is getting a tad bit long but I just wanted to explain my situation fully.







to everyone. Thanks you guys, really a lot.


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## NinaBruja (Jan 19, 2004)

OT but its been bugging me... dont feel pressured to get married in order to do this 'the right way'
i have been with my boyfriend on and off since we were 14/15, were now at 22/23. our relationship is what it is and it wouldnt mean anything if we got married, i resent the thinking that it would be more valid if we performed a cermony (saying nothing of religion and legal issues)
my dp and i for our own personal reasons dislike the concept of marriage. i know some people think its awesome and thats cool too...
either way its cool as long as thats what you truely want.

look deep into yourself and find what you truely believe.


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## zjande (Nov 4, 2002)

Good point! Marriage does not equal stable, forever relationship! Stable, mature people in deep committed love equals stable, forever relationship!









I know plenty of people that boycott marriage because gay folks cannot marry! Or boycott because it is an ancient, misogynistic tradition! Or because they don't want the government involved in their love affairs!

What I think is very most important is that the mama & the dada are absolutely committed to the wee person they create together.


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

I know how you feel because I ALWAYS felt the same way. from a very young age- 14 or 15 maybe?- I just had the strong desire to have a baby. I did end up getting pregnant at 19, and lost the baby. then again at 21, and lost that baby too.

then at 22 I got married, and got pregnant, and had my beautiful daughter. Thank God I waited until I was financially stable and married to someone who has health insurance, because our baby is special needs, and will need multiple surgeries, and putting her in daycare would have been a very bad option for her due to her medical issues.

I would have never minded "missing out" on my crazy years of partying (which got me into a lot of trouble), I would have not minded growing up so fast, taking on the responsibility- I know I would have loved being a mother at 18 or 19 or whenever. It would have been the wrong approach for someone to tell me "you'll regret it because you'll miss out on x y and z"- those things would never matter to me compared to having a baby.

But, my baby would not have the best life for HER if I had her before I was able to take care of her to the best of my ability. it would have broken my heart to put her in daycare and probably watch her contract chronic ear infections because of her cleft palate, to have the best surgeons refuse to treat her because we had no health insurance, to have to quit breastfeeding her because pumping exclusively while working full time would be too hard for me.

the thing is- it's not about what YOU might lose or regret- it's that you want to wait until you are in a position where you feel like you will be able to give your baby the best life you can. That doesn't mean being rich, it just means being stable and secure- a safe, loving home, health insurance, comfy, warm clothes, healthy food- some people might consider those all to be extras, and while it's true that any kid will be happy if it's loved and warm and dry and fed, if you have the choice, it's nice to plan to give them even more than that. I know most kids won't be special needs, and that even the most secure situation can turn around unexpectedly. But overall, that is my advice.

you just cannot rely on him or his parents to provide this- if you're not married, it's too risky. he could change his mind when the reality of parenthood hits him. you could break up and never see him again- I know you think no way, he's not like that- but haven't you heard the story 1,000 times? I know I have.

((hug)) I know how it feels to be a mother inside for a long time before you get to be one on the outside, too.


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

My 2 cents worth.

I was married at 19, had my first at 20. I desperately wanted children, though I got preggers accidentally. I then took foster children for the state and wound up adopting a son wehn I was a 26 yo single parent. I married, had 3 more kids.

So, I sort of have the complete view on haiving them young and having them later. Here's why I wish I had waited to have the first two.

Stability. I was married to a man who loved the IDEA of a family, but not the reality. The reality was living on his one income, which was miniscule. We barely got by. He longed for dancing and parties and fun. (He also was NOT a nice guy, and I'm not saying that your BF is anything like him, But guys, generally, mature slower than women. They need a number of years before the tribulations of childrearing won't hammer them into the ground. Ideally.)

Having a man who WAS ready to have a family was another experience entirely. He was able to work, suffer and maintain a gentle sense of humor!

If you aren't srue you want to spend the rest of your life with this guy, you're denying your children a family. Iv'e had the single parent family. It was a lot harder on the kids than I would have believed. THey missed out on a lot.

Although I longed for kdis, I learned a lot between the age of 20 and 30. I was a much, MUCH better parent at 30!







I had tons of experience, lots of younger sibs I was....encouraged to practice on, and I still needed time to be a better parent.

Now I'm going to offer a controversial, partial solution. I'm giong to get in trouble for it, most likely.









Every state is desperate for foster parents. I was a foster parent at 22, and I was a single 'welfare' mother. I can't tell you how thrilled tey were to have me.

It meant taking a class, and letting someone in on a regular basis, to talk about how things were going. I already HAD a baby, but I learned a lot about raising children and my misconceptions.

Once you are 18, if you think this is what you want to BE, when you grow up, (A mother, and I mean the grow up part as a joke. I'm 47 and I change my mind daily, though as a kid, I just wanted to BE a mother!) you could apply to be a "professional parent", which is what they called foster parents here, years ago. Most littelkids stay a short time, so you would be honor bound to provide a stable, gentle and loving home for that period. But once a child left, you would have a chance to decide how you both felt about parenting, really parenting!, and life as parents.

On a totally selfish level, I do regret never going out partying, having the freedom to take a vacation or a cruise. When all my friends were going camping, I was filling the wading pool in the back yard and hanging diapers. They still got to have kids, I'm way to old to start doing bone breaking things like white-water rafting now!







I'm 47 and I've never been off the East Coast. I wuold have liked to taken a few classes, been able to support us when my DH hurt his back.

Think carefully, do your homework, pick a life mate with the utmost care. And I wish you all the best!


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## Taedareth (Jun 9, 2004)

Sounds like you're getting a wide spectrum of advice on this thread! Whew! Here's my input









In wanting to be a mom, you're wanting a wonderful thing! But it's also something not to be entered into lightly. Because the right thing at the wrong time is still the wrong thing. Any parent can tell you that full-time, round-the-clock parenthood is a lot of work! Even couples who have the very best, most mature, long-standing relationships find it challenging to handle all the additional work and responsibility that raising a child brings. It's not just the practical stuff that you already know how to do, like changing diapers and feeding the baby - it's everything else, like balancing the relationship with your spouse, making decisions about how to educate your child, trying to raise the child to be well-mannered and a person of good character, etc. etc. Heavy responsibilities! Wonderful, but also serious.

My experience was that I had a ton of growing up to do after I got married!! Wow, did I ever. And I was fairly mature for an almost-22-year-old.







But there is just SO much more maturity required when you commit your life to another person. I had to switch my focus from living on my own and being an independent woman, to living with a husband and being part of a team! Suddenly all his issues were also my issues, and vice versa. I couldn't be self-focused anymore (a nice way to say "selfish" lol...). I had to think about my husband's needs and the needs of our relationship before my own personal desires. It's not like I didn't have fun or wasn't my own person, but just that I had to do everything in the context of "us." That first year of marriage is a real time of adjustment. We had all kinds of unspoken assumptions about who was going to do what, and how we were going to run our household, and what our financial picture was going to look like, and what our career goals were, etc. etc. I'm not saying that a baby would have ruined everything, but I can say that having that time to just focus on learning to be "us" was really beneficial!!

We waited until we'd been married about 4 years to try to conceive, although looking back, we both think it would have been fine if we'd started after being married 3 years. During that time we became a tight team, figured out some stuff with jobs, and educated ourselves on pregnancy and child-rearing. Then, we had our son at home with a midwife. Having all that time to prepare really made a lot of difference. We didnt' jump into anything, and I feel like we're able to relax and appreciate our baby more because we're so much more knowledgeable now than we were a few years ago.

Being in a committed, married relationship has also made all the difference in the world. I know I can trust DH totally, with absolutely everything. I wouldn't have been able to say that if we conceived a child while we were dating, because tying our lives together in marriage created a indelible bond between us. I can't imagine how tough it would be for me to be raising a child as a single mom (what a tough job - hats off to single moms!) or even with a boyfriend, simply because the marital relationship has made such a profound difference in our lives. Not just the act of GETTING married (which basically means we have a piece of paper, right?) but putting our commitment in writing and then following it up with BUILDING our marriage. We have attended marriage conferences once a year for the last couple years, and we spend a lot of time together sharing fun and household work. We're a true team.

I totally second the person who suggested getting a puppy!! Dogs are such a wonderful outlet for maternal energy!







You might even consider raising a guide dog puppy because you get to take the puppy everywhere with you, just like a baby! Hehe... someday when our kid(s) are older, I totally still want to do that. But anyway regardless of whether it was a guide dog puppy or a regular puppy, if I'd had a puppy before we had a child, that really would have allowed me to enjoy "mothering" a "baby." If you like dogs at all, I think you might have a wonderful experience doing that before your time comes to have a human baby.


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## NinaBruja (Jan 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Taedareth*
It's not just the practical stuff that you already know how to do, like changing diapers and feeding the baby - it's everything else, like balancing the relationship with your spouse, making decisions about how to educate your child, trying to raise the child to be well-mannered and a person of good character, etc. etc. Heavy responsibilities! Wonderful, but also serious.

yes! thats wonderful advice, theres alot of things you need to know about someone before you go off procreating with them. so many women on this board and many others have to deal with issues of difference in opinion in parenting, i can imagine its beyond stressful to have a spouse thats mainstream. i got lucky with my boyfriend there, the only thing we agree on is parenting







id be a nervous wreck if i had to worry about him hitting our toddler or letting the baby cio. these are things you want to know beforehand. you dont want to end up like that poor lady with her husband on the roof making an arse out of himself.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Taedareth*
I totally second the person who suggested getting a puppy!! Dogs are such a wonderful outlet for maternal energy!









i was in the process of finding a puppy to adopt when i got pregnant with dd#1 i was hoping it would help the maternal urges.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

I don't really agree with the cost issue either. Yes, children cost money, but there are ways to minimize the cost, many of which are associated with an ap/nfl lifestyle. I saved money by nursing (formula is expensive), cloth diapering (disposables are also expensive), being a sahm (daycare... *really* expensive), homeschooling (no tuition or school costs), avoiding unnecessary medical treatment (healthcare--really expensive, even with insurance), and generally avoiding the mindset of "needing" massive amounts of stuff. It's true that there are some unavoidable costs associated with children--food, clothing, some medical care, possibly education--but I don't buy the mantra that "children are expensive!"
Well life doesn't always happen the way we plan. We had to use some formula DD was hospilized with FTT and though I worked with LC and eventually got my supply back it did mean formula and the expensive calorie packed kind and paid laction specialist that added up worth it but costly. I'm a SAHM because we sacrifice a ton and DH works being an unmarried teen mom will likely mean having to work. Cloth diapering is likely (we do it) but again if one has to work many daycares wont take cloth, homeschooling again the may need to work. Avoiding unecessary medical treatment is fine if treatment isn't needed. I couldn't avoid my DD FTT, no parent plans for the serious issues (I mean plan as in assume there child will be sick) but it happens and can happen to anyone and it can drastically change how you assumed life would be. I'm not saying you need thousand s in the bank if that was true we'd never even think of having a child but do know these things can happen.
to the OP I love being a mom but I do agree make sure yout not just romancing over the idea (not trying to put you down) ther are great things about being a mom but honestly is also work well worth it yes but are you really prepared to put everyhing aside for a child. Are you prepared to stay up night after night with a screaming infant (it happens even to the most AP parent) handle ear inffections teething diaper blow outs redirrectig a child fancinated by the light on the power strip that can't be moved cause its screwed to the floor 10,000 times without getting angry







: Now none of this issues go away because yout 23 and married instead of 17 and unmarried just make sure you do realize having your own child is nothing absoultly nothing like babysitting.

Deanna


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:

I don't really agree with the cost issue either. Yes, children cost money, but there are ways to minimize the cost, many of which are associated with an ap/nfl lifestyle. I saved money by nursing (formula is expensive), cloth diapering (disposables are also expensive), being a sahm (daycare... *really* expensive), homeschooling (no tuition or school costs), avoiding unnecessary medical treatment (healthcare--really expensive, even with insurance), and generally avoiding the mindset of "needing" massive amounts of stuff. It's true that there are some unavoidable costs associated with children--food, clothing, some medical care, possibly education--but I don't buy the mantra that "children are expensive!"
I'm going to try to say this as nicely as possible.

We spent 11k out of pocket...as in AFTER insurance and free/reduced cost services from the state's early intervention program and help from relatives...for ds's therapy, evaluations, and special equipment last year. We spent 4k in ONE DAY last month for testing to rule out seizures. Tell me, how could AP/NFL magically make my medical bills lower? I bf my son until he was 2. He was ebf until he was 6 mos. old. I made my own baby food. We practice babywearing, gentle discpiline, blah blah blah. He still had colic, reflux, developmental delays, speech delay, sensory integration dysfunction and autism.

People don't *think* about the possiblilty of the unexpected. It's not going to happen to them. It doesn't happen that often. Chances are you'll have a totally normal pregnancy and birth and child. _But what if you don't?_

Romanticizing the whole money aspect of kids is nice and all, but totally not reality. It's just not. Yes, chances are she'll have a healthy pregnancy and baby. But what if she doesn't? Having a special needs kid has shown to end marriages and devastate finances. My dh and I are lucky we're still married, we worked our butts off in marital counseling to do it. We used to not have any debt except a mortgage. Now we have quite a hefty amount of debt because of ds's special needs. We can handle it, we can pay it off, but it ain't easy, and if we hadn't been such planners before he came along, we would be in a very dire situation financially right now.

Think. Life doesn't always go as planned. Just ask any special needs mom what her plans were before she had a baby. I was "supposed" to go back to work part time, put my ds in a great daycare, and have another baby by the time he was 2. Hmm. Didn't exactly work out that way. I had to practically quit my job (I work one to two shifts a month...I'm a nurse) because no way would ds survive in daycare, and forget nannies/au pairs....whom would YOU trust to your fragile special needs child? Having another child is on hold indefinitely too, we're still reeling with the whole autism diagnosis on top of everything else we've been through, and navigating the complex maze of therapies, IEP's, picking schools, blah blah blah.

Can you imagine being 18 and single and not having a good job going through all that? Yes, again, I KNOW SOME WOMEN DO IT.

I'm simply saying, if she has the opportunity to plan her pregnancies, to get a college degree, to make her life and financial profile more stable, then WHY NOT DO IT first? Getting pg unexpectedly is one thing. It happens. But she's NOT pg yet. She still has the chance to plan, to prepare, to save. She should seize that opportunity while she can.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Crimson Butterfly,
It sounds like you have a pretty good plan. Orthodontists make good money, so you got lucky there







. I understand you don't want to disappoint your mom, but I don't think it's a good idea to claim "accident." I think having your mom think of your baby as an "accident" might create more problems than it would solve--she might resent the baby, you, and your boyfriend for changing the future that she imagined. I would suggest that you wait until after you're pregnant, then tell her the truth. Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

To clarify, I am *not* against college. I went to college, and I'm glad I did. A college degree does provide more advantages in society. What I am against is the idea that young adults need or should have a few years of living like children before entering the "real world." And 18 yr old can vote, sign a contract, drive a car, and join the military but if he's in college he needs a babysitter to make sure he doesn't spend too much money on candy? And I am a firm believer that if you treat people as irresponsible, they will behave that way. So I think the drugs, orgies, keg parties, etc. that are so prevalent on college campuses are the direct result of these students' having their independence stifled. No wonder young adults are the most apathetic members of society. I am *not* against earning a college degree, only against the infantalizing atmosphere of most colleges and the mainstream cultural attitudes that reinforce it.

Biologically, the height of our fertility is in our late teens and early twenties. Our man-made cultural, educational, and economic systems that our society has created tell us that there is something wrong with having children at the height of your fertility. That is what I'm disagreeing with. There is certainly nothing wrong with waiting to have children--I did and I don't regret it. But it is not for everyone. And I don't think that natural selection or the intelligent designer or whatever you may believe in would have made this the most fertile time if we were inherently unfit to reproduce under age 30.

And I understand that there are expenses associated with having kids, and things like medical conditions that you don't know about in advance, and I do think people should be aware of that. I am not romanticizing anything. But I really don't think it's necessary to plan your life around what *might* happen. I promise I don't mean this in a bad way. But if everyone waited to have children until they had a college degree, money in the bank, a good job, etc. the species would die out. Of course it's risky. Life is risky. I'm not articulate enough to make this sound less flippant, but I don't mean it that way; it's just true. Having these things, especially financial security, will make your life much much easier. But that doesn't mean you can't be a really good parent without it.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch*
. . . We used to not have any debt except a mortgage. Now we have quite a hefty amount of debt because of ds's special needs. We can handle it, we can pay it off, but it ain't easy, and if we hadn't been such planners before he came along, we would be in a very dire situation financially right now.

Think. Life doesn't always go as planned. Just ask any special needs mom what her plans were before she had a baby. ....whom would YOU trust to your fragile special needs child? Having another child is on hold indefinitely too, we're still reeling with the whole autism diagnosis on top of everything else we've been through, and navigating the complex maze of therapies, IEP's, picking schools, blah blah blah.
.

Yep, all of that.

Except we are not having any more children. And we counted on a second healthy child. My first pregnancy went great and we had a healthy child. So I thought great, we will have another one. But we didn't have a healthy pregnancy or a healthy child.

Our marriage and finances could not handle another SN child. We used to be almost debt free except the car and house. Now we owe a lot but are slowly paying it off. I was paying, at one point, $250 a month for special formula (and yes we tried breastmilk first). I was paying $20 a week copays for therapy, $100 a month in medicine, and numerous trips to the ped for ear infections and other complications of her main problem.

You have got to be prepared for the unexpected. Mentally and emotionally there was no way I could have prepared. But financially it's tough to be in debt and have to make choices that affect the life of our other child. I would love to put her in horse riding lessons. Won't happen. Would love to buy her a microscope because she's interested in that kind of thing. Won't happen. We have food, clothes, a car. We are comfortable. Thank goodness for my dh's really good medical insurance or I don't know where we would be.

I can't work even if I wanted to. Dd would need a nurse to handle her feeding tube if it came out. Who would persuade her to eat and wean off the tube? It takes hours every day to feed this girl but slowly and surely she's learning to eat. I don't think a care provider would have the drive and dedication to do what I'm doing with her to beat the odds. I wanted to be a doula. I had attended a few births and was ready to be an apprentice doula or take classes. Now I'm not sure when or if that will happen.

Kids just really complicate things. I love my girls. Love them so, so much. They have made me a wiser, more relaxed person and defined my life. But you just never know what might happen. You just never know.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Thanks for backing me up, USAmma. I know people don't like to plan for the "what if's" in life, but it's a reality you and I and so many other special needs moms deal with on a daily basis.

1 in 166 children is diagnosed with autism. Special needs kids are becoming more and more and more "common" within the general population. Medical care, even with "good" insurance and free/reduced cost programs from the state, is not cheap. USAmma and I aren't saying wait until her life is a financial utopia to have kids, just to have a good cushion, a good nest egg, something to land on should the bottom completely drop out. Life happens. Being prepared for it helps.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I'd be really careful about the babydaddy, is my input. I got pg with a long-term good friend, and he SUCKS as a co-parent. Men IME often don't take a lot of responsibility, yet get a lot of rights.

I'm stuck in a crappy little city for the next 16 years (til my daughter turns 18) because I gave birth to her here and my babydaddy lives here. He sees her 20 hours/week, while I have her 140 hours/week. But this is frequent enough to mean I would need his written permission or a court order to be able to move.

And even if I could get it, I wouldn't move, because my daughter is very attached to her father, and I wouldn't want to uproot that relationship.

But having a baby's father who is half-assed there means I do most of the work of parenting, but I am tied long-term to her other parent. If I had it to do over, I would parent completely by myself.


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## zjande (Nov 4, 2002)

Yeah, thismama, that's another good point. I too am stuck here in the massively overpriced SanFran bay area because this is where (one of my) kid's babydaddy is. I'm going to be tethered to him forever because he's a good dad to my 2 oldest kids & I would never want to steal the kids away from him, no matter how desperately I want to move away for fun or for cheaper living.

And you guys with the babies that came out not quite as expected, another good point! Not that you can plan your life around the unexpected, but keep in mind that the unexpected can happen! The baby that I had when I was 17 was born very unexpectedly with a major birth defect. She very nearly died before it was discovered that her small intestine was a solid mass (it didn't have a hole in it for food to travel through).

At 22 hours old she had bowel reconstruction surgery. I was told she'd most likely die, then told she'd be mentally challenged, then told she'd have a colostomy bag all her life. She was hospitalized for 6 weeks & very ill for one year. I was 17! I visited her every single day. I wanted that baby sooo much. I had no friends IRL, just my wonderful mama for support. I look back & have no idea how I managed. I was so strong! Today that baby is a perfectly healthy 14yr old.







But you just never know. That was certainly not something I had ever considered might happen! (And by the way, I am ever so grateful to live in this country that provide

Anyway Crimson Butterfly, I don't mean to be all doom & gloom, I still think having a baby is a brilliant plan for some point in your life, & will be fantastically fun, I just wanted to add to the list of things for you to think about while planning for just when that point may be.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Brigianna wrote:

Quote:

What I am against is the idea that young adults need or should have a few years of living like children before entering the "real world." And 18 yr old can vote, sign a contract, drive a car, and join the military but if he's in college he needs a babysitter to make sure he doesn't spend too much money on candy? And I am a firm believer that if you treat people as irresponsible, they will behave that way.
Again, you're misunderstanding the college experience several of us are talking about. I've never heard of any college student having a babysitter.







: Living in a dormitory, managing your own budget, having no curfew, and having nobody to nag you into doing your homework is not "living like children." The big difference between MY high school and MY college was that the high school required class attendance and heavily restricted students' activities and had only moderate academic expectations, whereas the college threw tons of demanding assignments at us and put very few limits on our private lives and let us sink or swim depending on our self-motivation and stamina. It was a huge shock for me to be expected to work up to my actual potential (or even beyond) for once! The only way to pass the classes was to organize and discipline myself like crazy and learn to love caffeine.

To tie this back to the topic of the thread: Crimson Butterfly, your parents have saved money for your education and will be justified in getting upset if you purposely sabotage said education. You MAY be the kind of woman who can go thru a whole pregnancy without breaking her stride, take a semester off to be home with a new baby, and go right back...or you may be like me and get walloped with exhaustion and nausea 4 weeks after conception. At that point I'd been working in the same place for several years and was able to negotiate flexible scheduling so that I could drag myself to work whenever I felt up to it and use my accumulated Paid Time Off to fill in to make my 40 hours a week. I could not have arranged anything so accomodating in college. Policies vary between colleges, but generally there is a point in the semester after which you are not allowed to drop classes without penalties both financial (you have to pay the full tuition) and academic (your grade is based on your incomplete work, or you get an extension but the fact that you failed to finish on time is recorded on your transcript). If you time things wrong relative to the most difficult phase(s) of pregnancy, you'll waste some of your parents' savings and damage your academic record, and even if that's not important to YOU, they're likely to be upset. They might even decide not to fund your education or any other aspect of your life, after all.

So, it's very important that you talk with your parents and your boyfriend's parents about what are the conditions under which they are funding your education and what are the dealbreakers. The last thing you need is an unpleasant surprise in this area!

Medical school is very stressful. I don't know if orthodontists have to do this, but most med students have to spend a year or two as interns working grueling 24- or 36-hour shifts. You may not be living in different cities, but there will be times when you'll be separated by his school/job for long stretches of time and he'll be exhausted when he is home. You have to be prepared to function as a single parent during those times. Do you know anyone who was a parent of a young child while in medical school? Talk to them about what it was like.


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## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

I think you have already gotten some great advice. Nothing can really prepare you for parenting. Reading some parenting books and spending time working with young moms might help. I also agree that you should have a bit of a financial cushion. I don't agree that you have to wait until you have a "five figure bank account" if that were the case, then at least half of us moms on here would not have had children. Probably more like 2/3 of us.

Having a baby completely changes your relationship with your partner. It just does. I dated my BF for 5 years, and we were married for a year when our son was born. We are now going through a divorce. He was all for having a baby and our son was planned but when our son came along he didn't feel like helping much. It was the first time I really had to count on him, and he let me down on so many levels. You just never really know how much you can trust someone until you have to lean on them. Even though he was 27, he was still not ready to take on the responsibility of parenting. I learned the hard way.

I do think you are going to be a great mom. Look around on this website to get an accurate depiction of parenting. Check out the life with a babe section and see what kind of issues arise during life with a newborn. Maybe you can find some moms in your own area on the "finding your tribe" section and can get together with them to see what life with a baby is like. It's not all fun and games, it is HARD work, but it is certainly worth it.


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

I miscarried at 21 and had dd at 22. I've always wanted a baby. You sound like you'd be a great mom and I second the pps who said to look at the option carefully before trying







mostly b/c something in you thinks it wouldn't be right. Though if that part's bc of your family then go for it! it's your life!

love and peace.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca*
Again, you're misunderstanding the college experience several of us are talking about. I've never heard of any college student having a babysitter.







:

Colleges act "in loco parentis," meaning "in the place of the parents," a.k.a. babysitting.



_Quote:_

_Living in a dormitory, managing your own budget, having no curfew, and having nobody to nag you into doing your homework is not "living like children." The big difference between MY high school and MY college was that the high school required class attendance and heavily restricted students' activities and had only moderate academic expectations, whereas the college threw tons of demanding assignments at us and put very few limits on our private lives and let us sink or swim depending on our self-motivation and stamina. It was a huge shock for me to be expected to work up to my actual potential (or even beyond) for once! The only way to pass the classes was to organize and discipline myself like crazy and learn to love caffeine._

I have never heard of a college where the dorm residents didn't have a curfew. I was pretty free in my last couple of years of high school. My parents had always babied me and done everything for me, but when I was about 15 I started resisting and after that they mostly let me be, with a few exceptions. I managed my own budget, cooked my own foods, and had no curfew. Then I went to college. First-year students were required to start off living on campus, where we were required to buy a "meal plan" (I could live cheaper and better on my own stuff, but no, they had to push their cafeteria crap), attend lectures about how to do our own laundry, and stay quietly in our rooms. We were banned from spending over a certain amount on candy machines and from having opposite-sex guests in the rooms. *That* is what I'm objecting to. Fortunately for me I got out of the dorm after about 6 weeks and moved to my small-but-liberated apartment.

I do agree with you about the academic part though. I am very anti-school in general, but I think that to the extent schools should exist, they should be like colleges--choosing your own classes, no busywork, and grading based on results rather than process.

Quote:

_To tie this back to the topic of the thread: Crimson Butterfly, your parents have saved money for your education and will be justified in getting upset if you purposely sabotage said education. You MAY be the kind of woman who can go thru a whole pregnancy without breaking her stride, take a semester off to be home with a new baby, and go right back...or you may be like me and get walloped with exhaustion and nausea 4 weeks after conception. At that point I'd been working in the same place for several years and was able to negotiate flexible scheduling so that I could drag myself to work whenever I felt up to it and use my accumulated Paid Time Off to fill in to make my 40 hours a week. I could not have arranged anything so accomodating in college. Policies vary between colleges, but generally there is a point in the semester after which you are not allowed to drop classes without penalties both financial (you have to pay the full tuition) and academic (your grade is based on your incomplete work, or you get an extension but the fact that you failed to finish on time is recorded on your transcript). If you time things wrong relative to the most difficult phase(s) of pregnancy, you'll waste some of your parents' savings and damage your academic record, and even if that's not important to YOU, they're likely to be upset. They might even decide not to fund your education or any other aspect of your life, after all._
If Crimson Butterfly's parents are so hostile that they would regard bringing new life into the world as "purposely sabotaging her education" and snatch away what they had promised to her, she's probably better off without their "help." All people have to make their own choices of course, but, if it were me, I wouldn't accept support that was contingent on not having a child.


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## la mamita (Apr 10, 2005)

?


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *la mamita*
I am a college student and all of my friends are in college too, in a variety of schools all across the US--both state and private schools. I have NEVER heard of any college having a policy like that, except for super conservative small christian colleges. My college has cards that you swipe to get in the door and the doors are open 24/7--we never had to check in with any monitor. Most of my friends have a similar system, or the doors are just open without having to swipe a card to get in. No guest rules, no rules about how much candy one can eat...

Maybe college has changed since you went?

Hey, I'm not *that* old







. This was the early 1990's at a state university. My neice is in college now and the residents there have rules about guests and hours, but according to her they're not really enforced. They have the mandatory meal plan and the laundry lecture, too.

I'm glad some of them are more progressive though.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Quote:

Colleges act "in loco parentis," meaning "in the place of the parents," a.k.a. babysitting.
It may be that colleges act in loco parentis legally speaking for students under 18. (I was 18 when I started college so didn't look into it.) That does not translate into babysitting. At my college it wasn't even POSSIBLE to contact an older-than-student adult after hours, other than the police; we didn't have housemothers or anybody like that.

Not one of the 8 colleges I visited when I was looking, nor any of the 10 or so colleges attended by my friends from high school, had any curfews for dorm residents. Some had noise restrictions--like some housing complexes for adults. Most had some rules about visitors that were aimed at preventing you from having people live in your room who weren't registered and paying--like most rental housing for adults. One of my friends did attend a school that prohibited opposite-sex visitors in dorms; that was a conservative Christian college. We didn't have a laundry lecture. Some of the people on my floor could've used it







but the university apparently agreed with me that teaching kids to do laundry is their parents' responsibility, just like teaching kids to manage their money.

Anyway, my point is, the way your college did things is not universal. I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Please stop being biased against all college students because of it.

Quote:

I wouldn't accept support that was contingent on not having a child.
That's a fine decision to make. The crucial thing is knowing whether the support is contingent or not. In my case, my parents were very clear that they would support me as long as I remained continually in school, did not give birth, and did not live with a boyfriend. It was their money and their right to decide the conditions under which they would spend it on me. I was grateful that they weren't like the parents of several of my friends, who said, "Our money is for our retirement; we'll only give you $1000 a semester." so they had to go to low-quality colleges close to home. I accepted my parents' conditions because getting a really great education was important to me and motherhood and cohabitation were things I didn't mind waiting for.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zjande*
Good point! Marriage does not equal stable, forever relationship! Stable, mature people in deep committed love equals stable, forever relationship!









No it doesn't. But it does equal legal rights that you don't necessarily have if you're not married. If crimson butterfly's boyfriend were to leave her, for example, and she had purchased nothing in their relationship (car, etc.), she would, in most cases, be entitled to nothing which could leave her in a huge lurch.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca*
It may be that colleges act in loco parentis legally speaking for students under 18. (I was 18 when I started college so didn't look into it.) That does not translate into babysitting. At my college it wasn't even POSSIBLE to contact an older-than-student adult after hours, other than the police; we didn't have housemothers or anybody like that.

Actually students' legal rights are not as well established as most people think, but that's another topic.

Quote:

_Not one of the 8 colleges I visited when I was looking, nor any of the 10 or so colleges attended by my friends from high school, had any curfews for dorm residents. Some had noise restrictions--like some housing complexes for adults. Most had some rules about visitors that were aimed at preventing you from having people live in your room who weren't registered and paying--like most rental housing for adults. One of my friends did attend a school that prohibited opposite-sex visitors in dorms; that was a conservative Christian college. We didn't have a laundry lecture. Some of the people on my floor could've used it







but the university apparently agreed with me that teaching kids to do laundry is their parents' responsibility, just like teaching kids to manage their money._

_Anyway, my point is, the way your college did things is not universal. I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Please stop being biased against all college students because of it_.
I'm glad your college was more progressive. I am not biased against all college students. I have nothing against them. What I am against is the mainstream culture's attitude towards young adults, which manifests itself in the management of colleges (though not all as you point out) and also in the idea that young women at the height of their fertilty are "too young" to have children.

Quote:

_That's a fine decision to make. The crucial thing is knowing whether the support is contingent or not. In my case, my parents were very clear that they would support me as long as I remained continually in school, did not give birth, and did not live with a boyfriend. It was their money and their right to decide the conditions under which they would spend it on me. I was grateful that they weren't like the parents of several of my friends, who said, "Our money is for our retirement; we'll only give you $1000 a semester." so they had to go to low-quality colleges close to home. I accepted my parents' conditions because getting a really great education was important to me and motherhood and cohabitation were things I didn't mind waiting for_.
I think it's highly unethical to give someone a gift and then take it away if the person makes a choice you don't agree with. When you give someone something, it's theirs. You can't snatch it back if you get mad at them.


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## NinaBruja (Jan 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dragonfly*
No it doesn't. But it does equal legal rights that you don't necessarily have if you're not married. If crimson butterfly's boyfriend were to leave her, for example, and she had purchased nothing in their relationship (car, etc.), she would, in most cases, be entitled to nothing which could leave her in a huge lurch.

so you marry someone in case they might leave you








i see what youre saying but its not like divorce is something to be taken lightly. id say signing paternity papers is far more important.


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crimson butterfly*
I just want a kid of my own so bad.

So did I at that age. I watched many of my friends have babies before I was, in the teens and early twenties. I was horrendously jealous and sad.

Then I watched many of these same people struggle to feed their kids, find daycare, find familial support, get financial support from the dads, find a decent place to live that they could afford, etc. They had no job skills because they didn't complete high school or college. They never married the guys they had babies with in high school. They got older and changed/matured and grew away from their partners. They began to realize many of the things they had missed out on by having to take care of someone else from such a young age.

I had my first child at 27. I went to college, traveled internationally on seven different occasions, took jobs "just because," volunteered, marched in protests, had a lot fun, and didn't have to worry about anyone else but myself before I got married and had my daughter.

Life for me was a lot easier than it was for my friends who had babies at much younger ages. I changed SO MUCH between 16 and 27. I never would have believed how much had someone tried to tell me when I was 16. I think it was better both for me and for my daughter that I was older when she was born.

Now, I am not knocking young moms or saying that they are not good moms. I am just saying that they tend to face a lot more challenges and struggles than moms who are older. I am glad that I didn't have to go through that, because you can't get those years back.

Knowing what I know now, I am glad I waited.

Now, all the young moms here, please don't jump all over me for expressing my opinion on what was best for me.

Namaste!


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## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crimson butterfly*
My boyfriend will be going to medical school

OMG, do NOT try to have a baby if your bf is going to medical school. My sister was in her 30s when her son was born, and her husband was in medical school. He was gone 80-100 hours a week. Guess who did EVERYTHING for the baby, ALONE, with NO HELP? That plus college? Wow, unless you are superwoman and your day has 40 hours ... well, I wouldn't try it.

Namaste!


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