# The Thyroid Thread (Part II)



## *Jessica* (Jun 10, 2004)

A new thread as requested.









Link to The Thyroid Thread (Part I)

Other Helpful Links:
Stop The Thyroid Madness (website)

iTHYROID (website) Link to the post where TanyaLopez discusses the pros and cons of this site.

Armour Thyroid (medication)

Let's get a list of links/books/etc. going so we can direct newly diagnosed people to some good sources without having to dig through a lengthy thread.


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## 3girlsmommy (Jun 19, 2003)

subbing


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## guest^ (Oct 29, 2002)

Subbing! Thanks Jessica!!!
















Has anyone else had any trouble getting their Armour lately? I have, and I usually get it through Walgreens. They told me I would haveto wait over two weeks for my script!








: Anyway, I called my doc, who is an hour away, and she siad she doesn't think Walgreens does a good enough job of trying to keep it stocked. So, I am now getting my script from a smaller pharmacy,and it's being mailed to me. How cool is that?









I have some books to recommend, but will have to get back with that later.

I love the website www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

mp


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:

Let's get a list of links/books/etc. going so we can direct newly diagnosed people to some good sources without having to dig through a lengthy thread.
I like ithyroid.com.

Pros: does a good job of discussing the role of vitamins and minerals in thyroid functioning, both for hyper and hypo. Talks about symptoms (in general) and does a good job linking specific ones to specific minerals. It has as much discussion on hyper as it does hypo, which seems pretty rare. Offers a vitamin/mineral based (do-it-yourself, no products sold) way to deal with hypo- or hyperthyroidism. Has lots of references for published studies (animal and human).

Cons: The discussion of lab results doesn't do a good job in talking about which part of the normal range healthy-feeling people are usually in. Also, there's not a lot of emphasis on the root cause of vitamin/mineral imbalances (though there is some info, you just need to dig). Not very helpful for things like med dosages, which thyroid replacement med is appropriate, things like that.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamapoppins* 
Subbing! Thanks Jessica!!!
















Has anyone else had any trouble getting their Armour lately? I have, and I usually get it through Walgreens. They told me I would haveto wait over two weeks for my script!







: Anyway, I called my doc, who is an hour away, and she siad she doesn't think Walgreens does a good enough job of trying to keep it stocked. So, I am now getting my script from a smaller pharmacy,and it's being mailed to me. How cool is that?










There are occasional shortages and some pharmacists will tell you they aren't making it anymore, which isn't true. Armour has a website and you can always check things out with them to get the straight dope.









http://www.armourthyroid.com/


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## wolfmom (Jan 10, 2003)

I'm subbing 'cause this is so interesting to me. I just had my TSH done and it was 5.2. I'm going for further eval in 2 weeks and I'm glad to have more thoughts to discuss with my new doctor. Any suggestions for me are welcome!
peace and health,


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I didnt join the other thyroid thread because by the time I discovered it it was just to long to catch up with.

I had my thyroid removed in 96 due to cancer and have been on meds since. Though in the last few months I have missed so much that my levels were rock bottom







I know I shouldnt do that but so much going on and depression may be a reason as well







anyway here I am and if I get time I will come back and share the whole story if anyone is interested. And I am always willing to talk to others about thyroid cancer and the type I had, papilary sp* if they want to ask anything about it.


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
I didnt join the other thyroid thread because by the time I discovered it it was just to long to catch up with.

I had my thyroid removed in 96 due to cancer and have been on meds since. Though in the last few months I have missed so much that my levels were rock bottom







I know I shouldnt do that but so much going on and depression may be a reason as well







anyway here I am and if I get time I will come back and share the whole story if anyone is interested. And I am always willing to talk to others about thyroid cancer and the type I had, papilary sp* if they want to ask anything about it.

I have papillary, too (TT in April 2007, RAI in September 2007 - which caused depression and weight gain). I have another tumor that they're keeping an eye on...ultrasound in October to determine if I'm getting more RAI. Anyway, I feel you...this sucks.


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## *Jessica* (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
I had my thyroid removed in 96 due to cancer and have been on meds since. Though in the last few months I have missed so much that my levels were rock bottom







I know I shouldnt do that but so much going on and depression may be a reason as well







anyway here I am and if I get time I will come back and share the whole story if anyone is interested. And I am always willing to talk to others about thyroid cancer and the type I had, papilary sp* if they want to ask anything about it.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
I have papillary, too (TT in April 2007, RAI in September 2007 - which caused depression and weight gain). I have another tumor that they're keeping an eye on...ultrasound in October to determine if I'm getting more RAI. Anyway, I feel you...this sucks.









We would love to hear your stories! This thread has turned out to be a great resource for a lot of people and I'm positive that hearing your stories would be beneficial to many of our members.

My grandmother has hyperthyroidism and had thyroid cancer, but getting her to talk about her health is nearly impossible. She doesn't like for anyone to worry about her, so she keeps things quiet. This is my paternal grandmother.

I also have a maternal grandfather and mother with hypothyroidism. I think I'm just doomed! So far I'm taking Levothyroxine, but I hope to give Armour a chance sometime in the near future.

I don't have time to post more today (we have to attend Marc's grandmother's 90th birthday party!)


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

OK here is my story. Sorry it got so long.

I was diagnosed with papillary thyroid cancer in 1996 at the age of 24. I had a total thyroidectomy in April of and radioactive iodine in May. But my story doesn't really begin there. When I was 18 during treatment for an unrelated issue, that I cant remember now the Dr. felt the goiter on my neck. Instead of sending me for tests or doing blood work the Dr. put me on thyroid medication to take for 90 days. The reason for this was at the time I had no insurance so there was no specialist that would see me.

I took the pills for the 90 days then forgot about it since they didn't make a difference in how I felt or the size of the goiter. I didn't have a regular family Dr. either it was a walk in clinic I had been going to. So nothing else was done about the goiter and I didn't think any more about it until 96 when at my Dr. appt. for my yearly physical he became concerned about it though he hadn't been concerned about it the past 2 yrs I had been seeing him he just ordered blood work each time that came back totally normal.

But at that appt. he decided that I should see a endocrinologist so off I went. He sent me to have a u/s then a thyroid uptake scan (take radioactive pills then lay for a loooong time) I don't remember exactly how long I had to lay there but it felt like a eternity since I wasn't supposed to move at all.

After the results came back he decided to do a biopsy since it wasn't 100% clear if it was cancer or not. The biopsy was not pleasant. It didn't hurt really since he numbed the skin but I could feel the needle moving around in there and it made me come very close to passing out. Just from the sensation







He had to stop until I could get control of my reaction. The biopsy showed that it was indeed papillary cancer. I wasn't really surprised since I had a feeling something was going on. So when the goiter was originally noticed it was cancer then I was walking around with it for 6years and possibly longer since in some of my high school photos you can see what appears to be a knot there and I am pretty sure I remember wondering about it even back then. So had it been a fast growing cancer I probably wouldn't be typing this right now







all because I didn't have insurance.

Within hours you could see that the goiter was getting bigger







From the poking and prodding and messing with the cancer I guess. I got the results shortly after while I was at work. Everyone was upset for me but I guess I had just pretty much shut down my usual way of dealing with traumatic things like that.

I was told that there was a possibility that my voice wouldn't come back after the surgery since they were going to have to scrape the area to get every bit of the thyroid they could and also because of that the little glans that had something to do with calcium uptake might be damaged as well and that was something we would have to worry about after when they could check my blood. Thankfully that wasn't a problem. But my voice was gone I could talk in a hoarse whisper like someone with laryngitis. Talking on the phone was nearly impossible since I just didn't have the volume to be heard.

The surgery was scheduled ASAP which just happened to be a week after we celebrated our 2year anniversary. On the way there I broke down crying in the car terrified of the general anesthesia not really the cancer at that time just the fear of dying when I was put under. A big huge deal to me was my wedding band I had never had it off and was adamant that it not be removed. I would have walked out had they insisted I take it off it was that important. So the nurse taped it on and the surgeon said it was fine. So that part was a relief. After I got back to pre op. where I was alone and I couldn't speak to answer the nurses questions. I had never been in the hospital or been ill before so it was all overwhelming.

The nurse was kind to me and asked if I would like something to help me relax and I agreed. She said that it would basically knock me out. Well it did take the edge off but in now way did it knock me out







I wasn't high or anything but it defiantly didn't do what she expected. My mom and me have high tolerances for narcotic drugs so I was able to get up and go pee just before they took me back which blew the nurse away she just kept saying "I cant believe you are able to walk around like that"









They took me back shortly after that and I went to sleep. When I woke it wasn't like I had been truly asleep it felt different. But I wasn't in pain but I was ticked because they had put that gunk on my eyes and I kept asking the nurse for something to wipe it off with. When she didn't bring it I used the sheet







I woke again as they were wheeling me to the room I was going to stay the night in to see my dh and parents and il's there by me. I just smiled and closed my eyes again. Relieved to still be alive.

When I got to the room they asked me if I was thirsty and of course I was terribly so they gave me the water. Knowing how dry my throat was I knew not to take a huge drink so I just took a tiny sip but still it made me cough because I was not able to work my throat muscles like normal. They were a bit paralyzed still. My mom asked me if I got to much but I shook my head no. After that the second drink went down pretty well when I just let it run down by itself instead of trying to actively swallow.

I still was not in pain but the nurse asked me if I wanted some morphine and I said OK still not out of the anesthesia and was not thinking clearly so she put the shot in my IV. Dh was already laying down half asleep and my mom was in a chair the same way. It was around midnight I think and had been a really long day for them. Well within 15min. I was rudely awaken to severe nausea, had I been in my right mind I would never have agreed to the morphine because any pain shot like that 15 min. after getting one I puke.

So I couldn't talk just a hoarse whisper and I was holding on with all my might to keep the nausea down while trying to get dh or my mom awake. The nurses couldn't have heard me over the intercom didn't have strong enough voice for that. Finally my mom woke and I said "sick" and she grabbed the little kidney bean dish and well you can guess







I was terrified I would pop my neck open though it didn't hurt thank goodness. Mom called the nurse she came in checked my neck then got me a shot of anti nausea and I went to sleep.

When I woke the next morning the only thing hurting was the IV and my back from the lovely hospital bed







: The first thing I asked when the nurse came in to do morning check was can you please get this IV out and when can I go home









The Dr. came in and I asked the same thing and he said the IV could go since I was able to drink and if I could get up and move around he would let me go around noon. He told me that the cancer had spread to 1 lymph gland that was successfully removed and he was pretty sure that he had gotten it all but wouldn't know for sure until the pathology report came back.

I got up and went to the bathroom and my mom helped wash some of the lovely beta dine off me. It was down my back to my waist







: Well I got woozy and told mom I had to lay down right then but the lady was changing my bed and didn't want me to she wanted me to sit. Had I stayed sitting I would have passed out on the floor so I just climbed onto the bed anyway







I was discharged that day at noon.

I healed fast and was back to my sewing job in 2 weeks, tried to talk the surgeon into letting me stay off longer but he wouldn't







:







During this time was when the OJ Simpson thing was going on and there I was with my throat cut open and you can imagine some of the comments.









Anyway the next month May I had to go in for radioactive iodine treatment. They told me I might be there up to 5 days depending on how long it took the radiation level to drop. I was told no one could visit me in the first 24 hours at all then only for very limited times after that based on levels. I was devastated







All alone hour away from family etc. The room was covered in plastic everything walls, floor, phone, toilet etc. I was in a corner room so that there would be no patients near me. The room next door was empty on the cancer floor of the hospital.









They came in pushing a cart with a lead square container on it and wearing radiation "buttons" (to tell them if they were being exposed) and they opened the box inside was another lead container this one round. Inside that one were 6-8 capsules I had to be the one to touch them they wouldn't/couldn't because of the high levels of radiation. So I took those and asked if they ever made anyone sick and they said no but if they do come up we would have to start all over







: thank goodness no issues.

They told me the more I drank and caused my salivary glans to work the faster the radiation would pass since it comes out through urine and spit. So I started drinking







and they had some lemon drop candy (cant even type that or say the words lemon drop without getting nauseas now) I sucked the candy and drank pop by the gallon and peed like a race horse







I spent the majority of the night awake reading Clan of the Cave Bear by Jean M. Auel & watching a little TV. I slept maybe 4 hours then started reading again. I started the 3rd book in the series The Mammoth Hunters.

I only saw 1 person when they brought in my food tray that evening then the next morning someone brought me breakfast but neither spoke to me and left ASAP







I was up taking a walk on my plastic covered floor the next morning when I heard a beeping outside my door. I knew it was the guiger counter thing since he got a baseline scan of me right after I took the pills the day before. He knocked and came in and asked me if I had been up walking, since I jumped in the bed when he knocked







and I said yeah and he said he could tell cause the number was going up and down as I walked. He scanned me and he was surprised to see that my levels were in the "safe" range and I would be able to go home that evening. First time he said that anyone had dropped low enough that fast







I am special









So I got my discharge papers and my thyroid medication script and left when dh got off work and could come get me. When he was discharging me he made sure to tell me to stay away from pg woman and babies for at least 2 weeks







:

I started the meds and within a week my voice was returning







My dad had been particularly worried about that and I called and spoke to him so he could hear that I was nearly back to normal. He was thrilled. To this day if I my levels get to low my voice shows it.

I had to go once a year for uptake scans (take the small dose radiation then lay forever) up until 99 when I had my last scan. I was ttc had been for 2yrs and had to put that on hold for 3 months







but the good news was the first month after I got pg with dd







My levels fluctuated a lot when I was pg with her. I went in every 3 months for bw and every time they had to up my levels. It stayed high after her birth and did the same thing with ds. Only in the last year has it started to need to be lowered.

I had zero issues with bfing had a oversupply if anything







and neither kid had been affected in any way.

So that is my story







way to long I know







I don't mind questions and would be happy to answer any that anyone might have. Thanks for reading


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Thanks for sharing your story - I can relate to so much of it...

I had a considerable bump on my throat, too. I went to my PCP (at the urging of my husband). Had the biopsy (which is, to this day, the worst experience of my life - hearing the needle "pop" through my bump made me want to puke. I literally cried through the entire thing and the ultrasound student in the room held my hand) which came back as cancer. It took them TWO FREAKING WEEKS to inform me of the diagnosis. Makes you wonder if doctors ever have procedures like this!

I had surgery last year when my kid was 13 months - I had to wean her over all this (still horribly sad about that). Total Thyroidectomy and lymph node removal. Luckily I had clear margains so it was assumed that they got everything (more on that later).

They no longer do Radioactive Iodine in the hospital for isolation (I am serious that this should really bother every single person out there - there are people that are HIGHLY radioactive walking around in society because doctors don't even offer standards of how long patients should hole up in their house OR suggest they stay in hotel rooms!!) so I was at home - TWO WEEKS without any human contact. Well, I take that back, a girlfriend of mine dropped off a meal, but wouldn't come inside since she was still nursing and didn't want to be near me...and my husband had one dinner with me. I spiraled into depression...and since we haven't been able to get my meds back on track since that I'm still depressed.

Like I mentioned earlier, at my last ultrasound they discovered a "suspicious nodule" (read: missed tumor) that we're watching to see if it grows or not. If it grows then I'm off for another round of RAI/isolation...if not we're going to TTC. Either way is big news for my little family.









Anyway, I've been told time and time again that this is the "good cancer." *eyeroll* It's not good...it's actually a lifetime affair.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Yeah mine was "the best kind of cancer" to get if you got cancer. It has a very high cure rate is why they call it that but still Uggh.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

I called the maker of Armour Forest a few weeks ago. The details are kinda fuzzy in my mind so you should call. They said they had plenty of 1/4 grain. There was a supply issue with the 1 grain that would be over by the end of Sept. And there was a supply issue with the 3, 4, and 5 grains which would be a problem for even longer. I just kept going to different pharmacies to see who had it in stock.

So, here is my new problem. I told my dr that I was feeling hyper. I went to get tested and my tsh was 3, my T3 was normal and my T4 was LOW. I was also low in vitamin D so I'm going to add cod liver oil.

I've been taking just the one grain while I waited on these test results. I'm supposed to continue doing so for another month and then test again. I still feel a little hyper, but not as bad.

Depending on the labwork, I'm going to go back to synthroid or some other T4/T3 combo. I am on a lot of support for my adrenals. I did do a liver cleanse ( a very, very small one) so maybe I convert t4 to t3 better than i thought?


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## llnmaw (Nov 1, 2005)

Thanks so much for starting a new thread! I tried to get a little love on the last one...no luck.









So I'll try again!

If you are dx with Hashimotos how did you get the dx?

I started all of this with an enlarged thyroid (according to my hcp) and she sent me for u/s. Found a nodule (3.6cm) and a large thyroid. Nodule had a biopsy done - it was negative! So my hcp told me I had Hashimotos and wanted to redo labs. I asked for the recommended labs and she complied. I'm told my TSH is still within normal limits and that my testosterone is low. Other than that I don't have any info. I'm headed to the doc in 2 weeks and will get copies of labs.

I'm just wondering if hcp conclusion is hashi's because of my symptoms or my labs? She has not started me on any meds - because my TSH is *normal*. If she thinks I'm normal...why the dx? Ya see my point?

Incidentally I was also dx with Rheumatoid Arthritis as a total fluke. Was glad to get the figured out! I'd have just continued to suffer in pain silently because I figured my joint pain was the extra weight I'm now carrying. GO figure!

~L.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

my endo ran a test to see if i had antibodies against my thyroid. get a copy of your labs b/c you either have it or you don't, i think. sorry i'm not more help. he told me i would yo yo between hyper and hypo regardless of my tsh. i'm not sure if that is true or not. he also told me an anti inflammatory would help with my "flare ups." i don't really find that to be true, but whatev.

good luck.

Sounds like you have some immune system problems if you have hashis and Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llnmaw* 
Thanks so much for starting a new thread! I tried to get a little love on the last one...no luck.









So I'll try again!

If you are dx with Hashimotos how did you get the dx?

I started all of this with an enlarged thyroid (according to my hcp) and she sent me for u/s. Found a nodule (3.6cm) and a large thyroid. Nodule had a biopsy done - it was negative! So my hcp told me I had Hashimotos and wanted to redo labs. I asked for the recommended labs and she complied. I'm told my TSH is still within normal limits and that my testosterone is low. Other than that I don't have any info. I'm headed to the doc in 2 weeks and will get copies of labs.

I'm just wondering if hcp conclusion is hashi's because of my symptoms or my labs? She has not started me on any meds - because my TSH is *normal*. If she thinks I'm normal...why the dx? Ya see my point?

Incidentally I was also dx with Rheumatoid Arthritis as a total fluke. Was glad to get the figured out! I'd have just continued to suffer in pain silently because I figured my joint pain was the extra weight I'm now carrying. GO figure!

~L.


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## Daizynee (Jul 18, 2008)

Hi everyone,
I haven't been diagnosed with anything (well, haven't seen a doc) just having suspicions that perhaps my thyroid is overactive.

I had a baby 10 months ago (my second), I lost all the baby weight pretty quickly and in the last couple months have lost an additional 10-12 pounds - I guess this is what has me thinking about a thyroid prob because I have not tried whatsoever through diet or exercise. I used to exercise at least 4 times a week to try to lose/maintain. and now it seems the weight just keeps dropping off while I do nothing. I am still nursing so maybe I am just lucky? It is just weird for me as this has never been my 'problem'. I have always had to 'work' to keep my weight down. I am pretty average - about 5'5" and now about 120 pounds. My average was around 132. I did get down to 124 when I had circumstancial depression a few years ago.

I do have some other possible symptoms:
Frequent bowel movements - talking 3 or 4 times each morning - usually very loose.

Fatigue and Insomnia - Throughout my life I have had bouts of insomnia though and the fatigue could be attributed to being at home with my 2 girls.

Concentration - some days I just can't get my words out, can't focus, feel like I don't know how I can get through the day. Also used to have a really good memory, now CRS.

Dizziness - throughout my life I have had dizzy spells sometimes accompanied by hot/cold flashes. I have mentioned it to doc's and they have blamed low blood pressure.

Mood swings/depression = I do suffer these, however as mentioned before I have had circumstancial depression which the circumstance is something that kind of lingers at times in my life.

Neck pain - Not sure if this is even worth mentioning but I almost always have a sore, tense neck. No bumps or goiters or anything though. I think it is just wear I carry my tension.

So...I am not sure if this is something I should bother going to a doc for or if I should just consider myself lucky that I have been able to bounce back to my teenage weight.

Should I be concerned?
TIA


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Daizynee,
I would suspect adrenal fatigue before thyroid problems in your case. I'm not a ND or any kind of medical professional though, so take that with a grain of salt. The reason I say this though is because I had severe adrenal issues when I was younger and it sounds almost exactly like what you described. Additionally, the low blood pressure makes it suspect. I had one boyfriend describe the tension in my neck as "It's like your tendons are made of wires."
There's an adrenal fatigue thread kicking around somewhere and you may get more information there. I'm not too "up" with adrenal fatigue. (Don't know much about it iow.)


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## Daizynee (Jul 18, 2008)

Okay, thank you for your response. I will check that out.


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## llnmaw (Nov 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
my endo ran a test to see if i had antibodies against my thyroid. get a copy of your labs b/c you either have it or you don't, i think. sorry i'm not more help. he told me i would yo yo between hyper and hypo regardless of my tsh. i'm not sure if that is true or not. he also told me an anti inflammatory would help with my "flare ups." i don't really find that to be true, but whatev.

good luck.

Sounds like you have some immune system problems if you have hashis and Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Okay thanks! It looks like I need to see if I had a test to check for antibodies. I'll check on that this Friday.

May I ask if she did test it and it was normal - what would the next course of action be? Clearly I have an issue with my thyroid - it's large and has a large nodule growing on it. Then there are my other vague/annoying/sometimes life limiting symptoms. Do we assume it IS a thyroid issue even though according to my hcp my bloodwork is essentially *normal*?

I really, really, really want to get started on something med wise ASAP as I'm missing out on life and my kids are missing out on mommy because I'm so darn exhausted all.the.time! But if labs are normal (per hcp) I'm in for a fight, right?

And yea...if I do have hashis and rheumatoid arthritis - I'm pretty sure something is going on with my immune system! Where to start with that?

~L.


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

llnmaw - a LOT of people with thyroid cancer have negative biopsies and we all, pretty much, have TSH within the normal range. I'm jus tossing that out there. If you have a growth on a vital organ then this is a problem.

A girl on another board of mine had a partial thyroidectomy because she had a growth, negative biopsy, fine levels, etc BUT something was wrong. They lopped off that part of her thyroid (cancer free) and she now feels great.


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## llnmaw (Nov 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
llnmaw - I'm jus tossing that out there. If you have a growth on a vital organ then this is a problem.

A girl on another board of mine had a partial thyroidectomy because she had a growth, negative biopsy, fine levels, etc BUT something was wrong. They lopped off that part of her thyroid (cancer free) and she now feels great.

Oh my gosh! Thank you for saying that! Since hearing I had a growth on my thyroid I have assumed it would be removed because it does not belong there! Everyone looks at me cross eyed wondering why I would not just leave well enough alone. I mean, it's not cancer so what if it hangs out there?!?! Right? Umm...no.

Let me be sure I understand you though. Even though my biopsy is negative I could still have cancer? How would one go about getting diagnosed if biopsy (had a fine needle aspiration done) was negative? How would someone convince their hcp to do further investigation?

And just how do you push for a surgery when it would seem to be unnecessary?

Now I'm gonna ramble and see if anyone sees a connection to any of this.







This year my pap came back 'abnormal'. I'm not really even sure what abnormal meant other than - well- not normal. This was before I'd had the u/s on my thyroid so when the office called to tell me I'd need a recheck in 3 months I put the whole issue in the back of my head as nothing to worry about - as they said I should do. THEN...I began having bloody noses, seemingly random, but I did notice a pattern. I also have a sore high up in my nostril (actually now I have one in each side)that won't go away. My nose does not bleed from the sore though. It bleeds when I cry, bend over or lay on the floor on my tummy with my head propped in my hands (like to play a game with kids). It stops really quickly but comes on as a gusher. Seems to be 'pressure' related? Hcp said maybe I have a blood vessel that needs to be cauterized and if it did not stop she would refer me to someone.

So I add it all up. Large thyroid, good size nodule, sores in my nose that won't heal, bloody noses, abnormal pap - I MUST have cancer! I won't have my pap until mid September. Should I push to get this done sooner? Since I'd had the cancer all clear re: thyroid I've just assumed I was in the clear so to speak.

Sigh....I know those are all really random things.

~L.


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Honestly? I would start making a list of *everything* you know is just a little "off" right now. That stuff you mentioned, when it happens, how you get it to stop, etc. Then go in and see another doc with everything. I've found that most mainstream docs take me *much* more seriously when I've organized my notes about my health - almost like they won't take you seriously until you own it (if that makes sense).

I'm also not a medical professional so I'm certainly not saying you have cancer, but I've been around the cancer block to know how many people have negative FNA only to have cancer.

Oh, one more thing, just to show you how it's all connected. I had heartburn nightly for the year before I was diagnosed. I told my PCP, my surgeon and my oncologist about this - they all said that it's not a side effect of cancer. Why wouldn't I believe three physicians, right? Yeah, I joined a cancer listserv and the amount of people with that *exact* symptom was amazing.

So, yeah, I'd push and not take no for an answer. YOU own your health...YOU are the only person that can force them to listen.


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## NoMariposa (Apr 14, 2005)

Help me (I am dx hypo on meds)

I'm so fatigued right now, have been for a few weeks. I'm talking about days of doing absolutely nothing. Usually, I'm able to do the bare mins like cooking a meal for the family, but I can't even seem to do that the way I should.

I'm not eating much, too tired. I'm not preping food for my kids, too tired. I'm so zero energy it just is depressing. I don't think I'm depressed. I want to cook, I want to tidy the kitchen up to cook, I just can't make myself get up.

I'm sleeping at night. I go to bed early enough and haven't had to get up early. I can barely get out of bed in the morning. And I then have zero energy to get up and do anything. I am at a lost as to why I'm so fatigued.

My pharmacy is out of Armour (just incase someone else wanted confirmation on that). I recently increased my dosage to 1G, that was say 2 1/2 months ago with no improvement of my symtpoms. And at this moment, I'm as low energy as I was when I was diangosed, if not more low. I've been on meds since June 07. Did I get a zero effective batch of Armour?

I've decided to go to Synthroid and Cytomel combo. I have to call my doc, but I can't remember until it's too late in the day.

I started looking at taking a bunch of supplements again. I know that will take a few weeks to kick in.

I wonder if I've got more going on than just my low thyroid. I mean this sucks to be this zapped. (super sucks b/c I can't make myself get to the dump with the garbage and it's just sickening)


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

You didn't mention what your test results are like. Regardless, from what I've read, people usually need to be on a minimum of 1G to see any improvement in symptoms, often it needs to be more along the lines of 2-3G.
Are you taking the Armour sublingually? and are you taking it half in the morning and half in the afternoon? I've heard both of those things have made a huge difference for some people.
I only have hear-say to go on, but others may have more reliable information for you. I'm not on Armour (yet), still on Synthroid (ick). I've been having many problems similar to what you're describing. I understand it's actually quite typical to be under-medicated. (Stupid doctors grumble.)


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## NoMariposa (Apr 14, 2005)

Test results -- If I remember correctly Free T4 prior to 1 year on meds was .7, .8 within range. Free T3 also just below range as well. After 1 year my Free T4 was still .7 and my Total T3 was at the very high end of the range.

I'd have to dig them up from who knows where to find all the tests and numbers. TSH was .72 (in 05 when I first started thinking I might have a thyroid problem) and .82 in May 07. Those TSH show me being hyper, but I'm overweight and tired. I gaine weight on water!

I have a doc who is not an endo treating me. He sent me to the endo and the endo sent me away stating nothing was wrong with me. Endo lived on TSH numbers just like my old doctor in 05. So I went back to my doc and asked for Free T4 and Free T3 tests. I failed to specify Free T3 at my follow up at 1 year.

I felt pretty good on 1/2 gain, but still tired a lot. I increase it to 1G nearly 12 weeks ago. And in the last 2 weeks I've felt like death warmed over. And 4 weeks ago my face broke out at my chin and has been flaring ever since.

As soon as the kids go back to school, I intend to ask for Reverse T3 testing. I have to figure out what else. Something is wrong.


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## xelakann (Jul 30, 2007)

Hi, so I am recently diagnosed with hypothyroidism... though I have LONG suspected it, it wasn't until after I was postpartum that levels were low enough for my doctors to treat. The were always in the low range (T3 and T4) on the scale, with my TSH in the high range of normal. Even though I had textbook hypothyroid symptoms.

So in July I started on the synthetic hormone... but when talking to my sons pediatrician (who is also a naturopath doctor) she talked me into 1). retesting my blood again 2). switching to Armour or Nature-throid. I chose nature-throid and just got my prescription today. I am really hoping I can see an improvement.

I got my blood work back and the synthetic stuff helped some with my TSH, but nothing with my T3 and T4 and it showed I am VERY anemic.

So my dose is really low... 1/2 grain. I read on this thread that people don't see an improvement with anything less than a grain. I know they were talking about armour, but nature-throid is essentially the same but with more natural fillers.

And can someone talk to me about taking it sublingually? What are the benefits? TIA


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## NoMariposa (Apr 14, 2005)

I've come to believe you either help yourself or live in misery. I felt okay on 1/2 Grain, but I also do not have primary hypoT. I thought increasing might make me feel better and I think I feel worse. I don't know, but whatever the case is 12 weeks ago I started 1G and 2 weeks ago I started to have zero energy.

Doctor's know very little about real nutrition, forget the food prymid. Nutritionist even tend to know very little, unless they are alternative and then everyone has their own "push" item. Read and make judgments for yourself. My totally healthy diet ideal is highly unattainable in my weakened state and lack of energy. One vicious cycle.

Note this - Mercola tends to suggest that a person on thyroid meds for 3 to 5 years will not be able to come off of them. I have no intention of staying on meds, even if nutritional supplements cost more. I will not live dependent upon pharmaceutical corporations -- period. Just look now, Armour is out of supply.

I don't have primary hypo. I more than likely have tertiary. And I firmly believe it is from nutritional deficiencies. After pregnancy #2, I started to have symptoms and testing was TSH only fine (actually hyper by their standards, yet I could not drop 1 single pound), #3 became more evident something was wrong somewhere with skin break outs worse than in high school and I had acne pretty bad back then, plus additional weight not moving off and losing out on family time to lack of energy. And then #4 pregnancy came and wiped me out completely. I have never been so sick and tired in all my life. I developed anemia in my last pregnancy, I've never been the type prone to anemia. I developed Vit D deficiency since having moved to the upper latitudes - from 6 to 40, makes a huge difference. It took some 10 plus years for that to be dx. I suffer SADD as well.

Weight wise, I lost about 20lbs when I started 25mcg of Synthroid. I was 95lbs over a top range healthy weight. I gained some back. I have had to work super hard with gains and losses over the last year. I am down 36lbs. It's horrible b/c everything I know says to eat or shut down metabolism. If I eat, I gain weight. If I don't eat, I don't gain weight. I eat very little, say maybe 1000cals a day, some days probably a little more. Lately, I've been to tired to even attempt to think about food and eating, so even less. I know this is not healthy, when I do eat I'm eating proteins and I'm too tired to chew a carrot.

I'd love to think my tired fatigue is all thyroid, I have a gut feeling it isn't. I have to attack this from all the angles I can think of The Diet Cure recommendations, what I know about Vit D, Iron, Bvits, maybe a yeast thing, maybe it's time for light therapy again (it seems less bright out to me). I will start with those.

I think there is some hormonal imbalance going on as well. Throw that in and the ability of my brain to get it all straight just stops. The thyroid is connected to pituitary which is connected to those hormones. I asked my doc to check estrogen and progesterone, he refused b/c they change with weight changes. I had pituitary levels checked, but the doc didn't know those where specific to cycle times and I was nursing with no cycle.









In 2 weeks I can get into my docs w/o kids in tow. I have to read up more before then and make a list. By then I might be better, my skin might have cleared and he'll look at me like I'm a nutt job. I actually need a better doctor, but there are none to be had near by. At least this guy gets nutrition and is open to learning more. He has written the script for a lot of tests for me thus far, maybe my ins would not cover those other tests I wanted. Maybe the ins will now. I can only try again. He's a good guy at heart and is impressed with my improvements from when he met me. I just know I'm not back yet.

That's my plan. Any suggestions would be welcome.


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## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
Honestly? I would start making a list of *everything* you know is just a little "off" right now... Then go in and see another doc with everything. I've found that most mainstream docs take me *much* more seriously when I've organized my notes about my health - almost like they won't take you seriously until you own it (if that makes sense).

That's a good suggestion for anyone. I have an upcoming appt. with a primary care doctor and need to compile my symptoms, rather than go in and just say, 'something's off'.
I saw a naturalpath about 2 1/2 years ago... she took the most complete medical history I've ever had at the time. Saw her again randomly about 6 months ago and asked how I was. Then I went in for a real appt. because the run in and her questons reminded me that I had wanted to follow up on her suggestions and made me realize I'd also just not felt as good as I should be. She had thought to look at thyroid, but I'm not sure what specifically made her have a hunch to do this.
I did the temp tests as a naturalpath recommended and all my temps were low.

I happened to have an appt with my midwife and mentioned the temps, etc. My midwife ran a blood test for me (I wasn't expecting her to do this, so it was just a general screen). All my levels for the test were in the normal reference range...
My Thyroid TSH was 1.76 (range .4-4.5 uIU/mL)

So now I have to figure out what is wrong when nothing comes up as wrong.

And my symptoms are not as drastic as many have posted on the list. I wish I were someone that was more in 'synch' with my body, but I just never have been. And lately I've just been to busy to notice.

Jessica


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## Queen of Cups (Aug 29, 2003)

I also agree that its a great idea to write down a list of your concerns before going to the doctor/NP/PA. I did that and we looked at a few things - including thyroid, which is why I subscribed to this thread and asked for advice on the last one. My thyroid came back totally normal, but a low dose of Zoloft has made all the difference in the world to me the last couple of weeks. My NP thinks that, based on my chronic insomnia since age 8 or 9, that I am a low-producer of seratonin. The last couple of weeks I've been able to fall asleep before midnight most nights, which hasn't been possible for me on a regular basis since I was in elementary school! Its made a world of difference in my mood and my energy level. My problem wasn't thyroid at all, even though I felt like it was!


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Ok, so we got back my thyroid panel today and it's looking like Hashimoto's is the dx. Here's the results:

TSH: 3.26 (range: 0.4-2.5)
FT4: 1.4 (range: 0.8-1.9)
FT3: 2.25 (range: 1.8-4.2)
RT3: 22.2 (range: 9.0-35.0)
Anti-TG: >3000 (range: <=40)
Anti-TPO: >1000 (range: <=34)

This is while on 100 mcg levothyroxine (though that dosage had only been for 2 weeks).
So, we've agreed to start on 1 grain Naturethroid (go off the synthetic) and we started with Selenium (along with the zinc I'm already taking).
Any thoughts or advice from anyone? Best place to look up info on what a dx of Hashi's really means (besides the obvious- that it's auto-immune)?


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## llnmaw (Nov 1, 2005)

I went to see my care provider and got my labs. I was surprised to see that my testosterone has tanked! This is sorta funny to me because I do still have a fairly decent sex drive...just to exhausted to do much of anything about it!

Labs:
Thyroglobulin Auto Antibody: <20 (range:0.0-40.00)
Thyroid Peroxidase Auto Ab: <10 (range:0.0-35.0)
TSH Reflex: 1.79 (range:.040-5.00) **This was 0.9 in Jan 08**
B12: 549 (range: 247-911)
Folate: >24 (range:5.4-24.0)
Free Testosterone:0.8 (range:5.0-40.0) Egads eh??!?
Rheumatoid Factor: 24 (range <20)
Free T4: 1.1 (range: .07-1.5)
Cyclic Citrullinated Peptd AB:3 (range: <20)

Is the thyroglobulin the one that would indicate Hashimotos?
I think we missed the free t3?
Is there anything missing from my list (re: thyroid eval) that I still should get?

Sadly I came away from my appt. feeling a bit like a dork. Not really my care providers fault, just how I felt I guess. I did put together my list and I nearly chickened out and kept it in my pocket because it felt like a goofy list of complaints! Is that totally lame of me or what? In the end I'm still not on anything for my thyroid because....drum roll please....my labs don't indicate a need for it!







:







:







: She said that we would just keep watching my labs and when my TSH starts to move then we could get started on a low dose and wait for my numbers to really shoot up to adjust it.

By far my biggest complaint is fatigue - well that and a giant thyroid with a nice fat and happy growth - and the more we discussed my fatigue we are in agreement that I'm not sleeping well. Which I'm not. So I got a prescription for something and really hesitate to take it! I want sleep. I need sleep. I don't want to take a pill to help me sleep! I truly believe if my body was functioning as it should sleep would come much easier.

A final question. Should I ask for a referral to an endo? When my RA factor came back indicating RA she quickly and without hesitation referred me to a rheumatologist. If she thinks I'm having a thyroid disease why not send me to a person that has this as a specialty too?

Time to grow a spine and ask for something for my thyroid and a referral - right?

~L.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

It seems to me like it's possible that you're experiencing adrenal fatigue rather than a thyroid problem. Not sleeping well is a sign of problems with melatonin (produced by the adrenals, I believe), the secondary producer of testosterone is the adrenals as well. However, adrenals aren't my forte and I could be completely wrong- maybe it's a pituatary problem?
Just thought I'd throw that out there. Hopefully others will have better advice.


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Problems sleeping can also be a thyroid issue.

Your TSH doubled in eight months? I'd see an endo. Between that and the growth there is an issue.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
Problems sleeping can also be a thyroid issue.

Your TSH doubled in eight months? I'd see an endo. Between that and the growth there is an issue.

Not sure where my brain is today, I totally missed both of those points.








ITA, an endo's a must with those two points in consideration.


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## llnmaw (Nov 1, 2005)

Alrighty then...gonna make a phone call to ask for a referral to an endo. Thanks so much for your insight thus far!

As a strange side note here. I noticed this morning that my lab papers all have my gender listed as a male! Could that possibly make a difference when they list reference ranges? I mean a normal testosterone level for a man is bound to be different than for a woman..right? Could the same be said for TSH and all the others?

Weird and annoying stuff keeps making this all feeling as though I'm chasing a piece of fluff in a wind storm.
~L.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

I had horrible sleep problems when I first started having my thyroid and adrenal symptoms. And coincidentally (or not) I also saw a modest increase in TSH and said hey, not the same as it used to be when I felt fine, but was dismissed.

I take melatonin to sleep. You'll need an open-minded endo who will feel that an increase in TSH from 0.9 to 1.79 is significant, even with symptoms (though a growth is much more concrete, and maybe that will make a difference).

And yes, I'd see if I could get the normals for a female--I _think_ the thyroid levels are pretty much the same for men and women (not 100% sure though) but the other stuff, you should double-check.


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## no5no5 (Feb 4, 2008)

Your labs look a lot like mine. My antibodies are not as high (in the hundreds, not thousands), but otherwise our labs are pretty darn similar. I wish I had more information to give. I have not even been diagnosed yet...I had the thyroid panel done as part of an infertility workup and my RE told me the antibodies were no big deal since the rest of my labs were not far off the normal range. He gave me 25 mcg of synthroid "to prevent miscarriage" and off I went. NO diagnosis. He recommended a followup TSH in 6 weeks. NO followup antibodies or other labs. So I am just waiting to be able to see a doctor who knows something.









Anyway, the sites I have found most useful thus far are www.stopthethyroidmadness.com and about.thyroid.com. Unfortunately neither of them addressed the vast majority of my concerns.

I hope this helps.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Ok, so we got back my thyroid panel today and it's looking like Hashimoto's is the dx. Here's the results:

TSH: 3.26 (range: 0.4-2.5)
FT4: 1.4 (range: 0.8-1.9)
FT3: 2.25 (range: 1.8-4.2)
RT3: 22.2 (range: 9.0-35.0)
Anti-TG: >3000 (range: <=40)
Anti-TPO: >1000 (range: <=34)

This is while on 100 mcg levothyroxine (though that dosage had only been for 2 weeks).
So, we've agreed to start on 1 grain Naturethroid (go off the synthetic) and we started with Selenium (along with the zinc I'm already taking).
Any thoughts or advice from anyone? Best place to look up info on what a dx of Hashi's really means (besides the obvious- that it's auto-immune)?


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

you might try realthyroidhelp.com also


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## ErinBird (Dec 5, 2005)

subbing









I'm struggling to balance my adrenal fatigue and thyroid hormones. I've been on Armour for 19mo and my TSH is now at 0.936, but my thyroid antibodies are all over the place, my cholesterol is very low (129, target 170-200), and my iron stores are low. I'm gearing up for another rearrangement of hormone levels over here







:


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

I'll check that out, bigeyes, thanks. I've been nosing around ithyroid.com lately too (again). I've never seen the realthyroidhelp.com site before. I like Stop the Thyroid Madness. There was another one I stumbled onto that I can't find now. When I find it, I'll post.
My question of the day is:
Is anyone on NatureThroid? Does anyone know if it's supposed to be taken sublingually like Armour?


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

you can, it doesn't dissolve as well, though.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
you can, it doesn't dissolve as well, though.

Thanks for the answer.









After poking around in the supplements list on ithyroid.com, I added sulfur (MSM) into my supplements the other day and holy cow.







I had been in so much pain (just general joint and muscle achiness, popping of joints when bending them, joints seizing up, so on and so forth) and after adding 1000mg for just a couple of days, my pain has decreased by half if not more.
When I saw sulfur on the list of vitamins/minerals which needed supplementing in people with thyroid conditions, a little light went on in my head. I know it's gross, but I used to eat match heads as a child. I'd dig through my parents' ashtrays and eat all the heads off their matches. I craved them. This along with eating handfuls of salt actually prompted my gran to tell my mom that if I was craving it badly enough to do that, she should let me because obviously my body needed something in it- she even suggested maybe it was the sulfur.
Has anyone else added sulfur into their supplements? If so, what were the results for you? Anything as extraordinary as mine?
I have a couple more supplements to add into my regime after looking at the list from ithyroid.com, most are covered by a multi-vitamin my ND has me on, but there are some which aren't quite to the levels suggested by that site.
Just had to share.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Thanks for the answer.









After poking around in the supplements list on ithyroid.com, I added sulfur (MSM) into my supplements the other day and holy cow.







I had been in so much pain (just general joint and muscle achiness, popping of joints when bending them, joints seizing up, so on and so forth) and after adding 1000mg for just a couple of days, my pain has decreased by half if not more.
When I saw sulfur on the list of vitamins/minerals which needed supplementing in people with thyroid conditions, a little light went on in my head. I know it's gross, but I used to eat match heads as a child. I'd dig through my parents' ashtrays and eat all the heads off their matches. I craved them. This along with eating handfuls of salt actually prompted my gran to tell my mom that if I was craving it badly enough to do that, she should let me because obviously my body needed something in it- she even suggested maybe it was the sulfur.
Has anyone else added sulfur into their supplements? If so, what were the results for you? Anything as extraordinary as mine?
I have a couple more supplements to add into my regime after looking at the list from ithyroid.com, most are covered by a multi-vitamin my ND has me on, but there are some which aren't quite to the levels suggested by that site.
Just had to share.

Yeah, sometimes it's amazing when something just clicks as you read on one of the sites.

Unfortunately, I can't do sulphur. We moved to Hawaii and I found out every time the volcano acts up I get migraines from the sulphur. I bet if I took a supplement with sulphur it would _kill_ me.

Sea salt helps me, though, and I added selenium.


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## Girlprof (Jun 11, 2007)

Hi all,

I'm new here. I've been looking around the threads, Parts I and II. Lots of info! It's going to take me a while to process it all.

Here's my deal. I just went to the doc for crazy fast heart rate. High pulse and high BP. I had a physical in early August and they _said_ all was fine. Turns out the thyroid info came in late and never got looked at. My TSH was .01. I think. I also have a pretty big thyroid nodule. The doc thinks the heart stuff is related to an out-of-whack thyroid. I have also steadily been losing weight. I had chalked that up to nursing a 7 month old who doesn't like solids, but it could easily be something else.

Other info on me: I had a baby girl in January. Before that I had 3 miscarriages and was diagnosed with a possible blood clotting disorder. Supposedly the thyroid can potentially have something to do with that, but I don't know what. Anyway, my thyroid was monitored throughout the pregnancy and I think it was fine. We have lots of info anyway. LOL.

My main worry is that they'll want to give me something that isn't compatible with breastfeeding. Or that they'll diagnose me with something chronic when this is actually my body still getting itself in order postpartum. I am calling the endocrinologist on Tuesday.

I know the endo because I also have a thyroid nodule and I had him check it out a few years ago.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Jacqueline, holy moley! I did a lot of the stuff on ithyroid.com (back before I had a healthcare provider) and although it dramatically improved my thyroid function, I never had any other significant changes, positive or negative (but my adrenal and thyroid symptoms were my most pressing, so at least it addressed one of them quite well). But wow!


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Girlprof - how do you learn about your large nodule (u/s or FNA)? How long have you had it?

The synthetic hormones (Synthroid et al) are all compatible with nursing.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Jacqueline, your reaction to MSM made me wonder about something I'd read about, so I went poking around. I _think_ MSM is the same type of sulfur found in "high-sulfur" foods (high in free thiols), like eggs, dairy, and a lot of leafy green things.

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/heali...hur_foods.html

This is the list that I was thinking of, with high and low sulfur foods. I think you've got dietary restrictions, right? I was just wondering if you happen to be avoiding a lot of high sulfur foods.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Jacqueline, your reaction to MSM made me wonder about something I'd read about, so I went poking around. I _think_ MSM is the same type of sulfur found in "high-sulfur" foods (high in free thiols), like eggs, dairy, and a lot of leafy green things.

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/heali...hur_foods.html

This is the list that I was thinking of, with high and low sulfur foods. I think you've got dietary restrictions, right? I was just wondering if you happen to be avoiding a lot of high sulfur foods.










I either avoid nearly everything on that list or I'm bad for not eating it (excepting onions and a few other things). We avoid dairy, eggs and wheat and limit soy and goitragenic foods (cabbage, broccoli etc). We use a lot of onions and garlic, starting to use bok choy and bean sprouts more often now that I have a wok.
I guess this explains why I'm craving dairy, eggs and chocolate so badly.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
Girlprof - how do you learn about your large nodule (u/s or FNA)? How long have you had it?

The synthetic hormones (Synthroid et al) are all compatible with nursing.

Hmm.. Are NatureThroid and Armour incompatible with nursing?


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

no


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## camprunner (Oct 31, 2003)

Hi all. I went to the doctor a month ago to ask about Adrenal Fatigue (I should get those results next week) and had blood drawn. Blood work shows that TPOs are a little high (478) but everything else is fine with the exception of a few vitamin deficiencies. They sent me for a scan which I should also get the results back next week. I've had the symptoms for sure since I concieved my second child (over three years ago). so I'm guessing that I either have Hashimotos or cancer?


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## Girlprof (Jun 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
Girlprof - how do you learn about your large nodule (u/s or FNA)? How long have you had it?

The synthetic hormones (Synthroid et al) are all compatible with nursing.

My primary care doc spotted the nodule from across the room (!) several years ago. It's grown a lot since then. I've had an u/s and also a biopsy, but quite awhile ago.


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## Girlprof (Jun 11, 2007)

Here's a quick update. I like the doc I saw yesterday, but let's see what you all think.

He said my TSH was low, but that wasn't the important thing. We are doing a blood test for free T4 (or free T3? I don't remember). He said all the crazy symptoms I'm having are probably thyroid related. Well, almost all. My plantar fasciitis isn't, too bad, I'd love to get rid of that.

He talked about two things: a scan and an uptake test. Both of those involved radiation, or radioactive iodine. When I told him I was breastfeeding, he called the lab and talked it over. They said no uptake test for sure. We all said, well, not necessary since we won't be doing any radioactive treatment on me while I'm nursing.

I asked what we would learn from the scan. He said it would tell us whether the extra thyroid stuff was coming from the nodule or the whole thyroid. But it seemed like treatment would be the same either way so now we are not doing the scan either. Yeah!

So he gave me two meds. I don't have the info here. One is a beta blocker. Medizol or something like that. The other is an anti-thryoid thing. I think the abbreviation is PTU, but I can check. He said both of these were compatible with nursing.

Thoughts?


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Girlprof* 
My plantar fasciitis isn't, too bad, I'd love to get rid of that.


People in my thyroid group have mentioned that as a symptom of undertreated hypo


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Do you (or your doc) have any desire to remove the nodule via surgery? Then they can determine if it's cancerous. (A chick on another board did this, it was benign, no problems since.)


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## Girlprof (Jun 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
Do you (or your doc) have any desire to remove the nodule via surgery? Then they can determine if it's cancerous. (A chick on another board did this, it was benign, no problems since.)

I sure don't want to do the surgery right now. I might consider it later. Once I'm done breastfeeding (and get through the next year at work), we'll have to re-evaluate.

So you guys didn't think anything he did sounded too crazy?


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## Girlprof (Jun 11, 2007)

That is REALLY interesting about the plantar fasciitis. However, I'm pretty sure I got it from swinging our baby to sleep on a hard floor while barefoot. That was not a good idea. Maybe the thyroid is making me more susceptible.


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Girlprof* 
I sure don't want to do the surgery right now. I might consider it later. Once I'm done breastfeeding (and get through the next year at work), we'll have to re-evaluate.

So you guys didn't think anything he did sounded too crazy?

Surgery can be done while nursing, but I understand if you're not interested.

Basically, you're asking if the meds sound right since you're vetoing the scan/radiation? I can't answer that since I'm not on those meds or know anything about them.


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## Girlprof (Jun 11, 2007)

I think I'd just feel too stressed out adding surgery to my to-do list in the next few months. Maybe that's a mistake. Thanks everyone for your help!


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## llnmaw (Nov 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
People in my thyroid group have mentioned that as a symptom of undertreated hypo

WOW...That is interesting! I have had plantar fasciitis for years and years. I keep it under control with orthotics in my shoes and good morning/after walking stretching. I'd love it if it mysteriously disappeared after getting my thyroid under control!

That's it!

From now on I'm going to pay close attention to each and every symptom I notice even if it seems too far fetched to be related. Even if my foot problems wind up not being related to my thyroid this is a good reminder that seemingly not related stuff just might be and the treatment I may be receiving could not be the right treatment for me.

~L.


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## *Jessica* (Jun 10, 2004)

The possible plantar fasciitis/undertreated hypothyroidism link is really interesting to me. My hypothyroidism is being treated, but I have been thinking that my dosage is too low. I had never heard of plantar fasciitis until this thread.....but that's exactly what I have been experiencing for the last month or so!!! I thought I had stepped on one of the toys that are all over the floor and it was bruised and not healing very fast. But since my heel is very sore when I wake in the morning and after I have been sitting for too long (thanks to my MDC and Guild Wards addictions!







) I think it's probably plantar fasciitis. I guess it's time to have my bloodwork re-done and probably increase my dosage.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

What Jessica said goes here too. I'd never heard of it but after looking it up I went "Wow. There's a _name_ for it!"
Chalk me up as one more with plantar fascitis symptoms.
*walks away muttering about stupid doctors again*


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## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

I got another lab result back and have an appt. with a endocrinologist for a consult (my dr mentioned she didn't think it warrented replacement hormone meds).

I just have a second to post, maybe I should post all/more of the lab work.
Anyways the total T3 level came back at 80, low (normal range 87-178).

I decided to get tested for Lyme since they were drawing blood and that came back negative. So that was good news.

Jessica


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

I have an odd question. Does anyone else notice being unable to focus their eyes very well if their medication is too low?


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I have had lousy vision forever, but I think I've heard other people mention vision problems as a symptom, I just don't remember _what kind_ of problems they were.


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## llnmaw (Nov 1, 2005)

I've asked for a prescription for Armour - and asked to start at 1 grain (as it seems from what I've read that is a good starting place - did I go to far here?). Message from the med assistant was that this was a much, MUCH higher dose than HCP was going to prescribe of synthroid and that this drug can be toxic very quickly. So...

I'm getting a 'low dose' of synthroid - or the generic form I guess.

Should I at this point just be thankful I'm getting a script at all? So far she has only wanted to treat my fatigue issue as a sleep issue (and it really is a sleep issue I think...but totally related to my thyroid) but is willing to go low dose synthroid to appease me. <-- my words not here.

As a refresher: Large thyroid, generous nodule, doubled TSH in less than a year but still w/in normal range, many vague/not so vague physical symptoms

I'm still in the process of trying to find a endo to be referred to. How does one really choose someone who will treat the patient and not the labs? I cannot switch primary care docs right now (HMO) so must go to a specialist and I fear there is not an endo in town that will treat me how I want to be treated.

~L.


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## Notyet11 (Aug 13, 2008)

Hi! I have been trying to sort through the enormous amount of information that has been amassed here but I was hoping someone could possibly help me wrap my mind around some things. For years now I have had symptoms of hypothyroidism but my TSH levels have always come back normal and that has been the end of it. At the dr.'s the other day I mentioned my suspicion and that no one has ever run the other tests, just the TSH. I called today to get the results and my TSH was 0.57 and my Free T4 was 0.81. I have no idea why she chose to run just those two and not a whole panel. She seems to be suspecting PCOS and I have an ultrasound scheduled for next week. Can anyone make heads or tails out of this? I don't even know what to ask for, my head is just spinning! Thank you!!!


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I happened upon this older post and found it very informative.

Pat

Quote:

NUTRITION AND HYPOTHYROIDISM

*Selenium*
Together with Iodine, the most important mineral for thyroid function. Best food source is Brazil nuts which are quite high.

Quote:
Selenium activates an enzyme - hepatic type I iodothyronine deiodinase - that is responsible for controlling thyroid function by the conversion of T4 to T3. This enzyme... is sensitive to selenium deficiency.

Some researchers and practitioners are beginning to believe that selenium deficiency alone can trigger autoimmune thyroid disease.

Keep intake 200-400mcg/day.

(from Mary Shomon's book)
Wonder how many Hypos are actually just selenium deficient?

Or hypos on medication that do not see a relief in symptoms are simply selenium (and iodine) deficient?

*Iodine*
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=272
*
Vitamin A*
A deficiency in vit. A can inhibit thyroid hormone production.
http://www.ithyroid.com/vitamin_a.htm

High vitamin cod liver oil is best source. www.westonaprice.org

Personally I would take a larger dosage than 10,000 IU (1 tsp/day) unless on a traditional diet that supplies a lot of other sources of A. Traditional diets contained an average of 50,000 IU of A/day. As with any nutrient, I'm finding if you are deficient, you need much more than even optimal amounts to restock your body stores.

*
B Vitamins*
Many Bs are critical for thyroid function including B2, Niacin, B6 (which helps convert iodine to thyroid hormone) and B12. They are also highly correlated with mood and very much depleted in stressful times.

Food sources are best. I take both desiccated liver www.drrons.com and brewer's yeast http://www.lewis-labs.com/products/brewersyeast.htm
*
Vitamin D*
Quote:
...necessary in order for the pituitary gland to produce thyroid hormone and may play a role in T3 binding to its receptor. Vitamin D is part of the necessary supporting apparatus that enables the deiodinase enzyme to convert T4 into T3. (from Mary Shomon's book "Living Well with Hypothryoidism"
Many many people are vitamin D deficient. Mercola, Krispin Sullivan and the Weston Price foundation have good information on this. Studies show that during winter people need 10x the RDA of D to keep their blood levels up! (And most fascinating to me is that this was likely the amount that traditional diets contained also.)

The best thing to do is test your blood levels and get a 25 (OH) D test. You should be in high normal range. If you do supplement vitamin D, get a natural form made from cod liver oil, this is very important. The D2 vegan form is toxic. I've used Carlson's natural D pills before but high vitamin cod liver oil will give you both best source of A and D. Radiant Life or Blue Ice.

*
Zinc*
Another essential mineral and involved in T3 conversion. Essential depression fighting nutrient as well (see Amanda Rose's website).
*
Magnesium*
After reading about how critical it is, and how depleted our soils are (and thus our food) I think everyone needs to supplement magnesium. Low mag. also reduces T4. Best food sources are nuts and seeds and homemade bone broths.

http://www.krispin.com/magnes.html
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/magnesium.htm

*Tyrosine*
The thyroid hormones T3 and T4 refers to the amino acid tyrosine bound with 3 molecules of iodine or 4 molecules of iodine... it's critical. One can be deficient in amino acids for many reasons: not eating enough protein. Or interestingly enough, a high simple carb diet: if you are raising your blood sugar several times throughout the day, beneficial amino acids get sweeped out of your bloodstream by insulin as well as the excess sugar.

More on that in _The Mood Cure_ by Julia Ross, a protein defiency is the true reason for low seratonin in the brain ... not a lack of SSRI's! I also know that adaquate *digestion* of proteins into their individual building blocks, amino acids, with good amounts of stomach acid is essential for this to happen as well. Tums and other acid inhibitors cause a multitude of other problems.

The other key to all of this is the fact that low thyroid inihibits your digestive function as it inhibits many enzyme reactions throughout the body. If your digestion is not working well, you can't absorb your nutrients well either!

Enzyme inhibition also results in such wide ranging symptoms as constipation and dry hair/skin... the blocking of creating certain essential fatty acids because the enzymes to do so aren't working is one reason why evening primrose oil is recommended.

JaneS.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=285


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## llnmaw (Nov 1, 2005)

Thank you Pat!

A question for you (or anyone else who might know)

How would you discover a deficiency in any of the things mentioned in the post? Lab work? An assumption that if your thyroid is out of whack these vitamins/minerals must be too? Or because the American diet is in general pretty crappy - we all need extra vit/minerals?

Can I make changes to my diet while getting started on traditional meds and then when I feel as though I've pumped up on vit/minerals trial off the meds?

~L.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:

How would you discover a deficiency in any of the things mentioned in the post? Lab work? An assumption that if your thyroid is out of whack these vitamins/minerals must be too? Or because the American diet is in general pretty crappy - we all need extra vit/minerals?
I went on the assumption that it was true, tried the vit/min route (supplements) and felt a lot better in about 2 weeks. I think testing for some of these isn't particularly mainstream and I don't know if it's possible for them all--I was at the point that I just needed to feel better and was willing to jump in (after doing as much reading as I could stand).

It's not just the typical American diet--though it's good to start asking why and how this could happen. Some people have a lot of gut damage and aren't absorbing the nutrients from their food well, so doing gut healing in conjunction with other stuff would be key. For me, it was a combo of bad diet and the effect of the mercury from my amalgam fillings. Many mercury toxic people have thyroid problems. I'm sure there are other things that could be in play, I just know my little corner of the world.

Quote:

Can I make changes to my diet while getting started on traditional meds and then when I feel as though I've pumped up on vit/minerals trial off the meds?
I would say yes, but I'd also say that I was taking doses of these way higher than I could get from food (well, admittedly I wasn't willing to eat oysters (for zinc) every day--I have heard of people doing this with just food, but it's a very challenging way to go). It's a long-term deficiency that's been building and IME it will take a long time to rebuild. If you are on meds (I finally got a prescription just when I'd decided to try the vit/min route so I never filled it--but it was really satisfying to get it







) but you'd need to monitor how you feel closely and be willing to taper down on your dosage. Read about the symptoms of hyperthyroid because you may feel hyper as your thyroid starts working again.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

http://www.tuberose.com/
Has good descriptions (imo, though rather technical and long) of how the adrenals and thyroid work and what their role is in the body.
Posting it here (finally) so I don't lose it again.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llnmaw* 
Thank you Pat!

A question for you (or anyone else who might know)

How would you discover a deficiency in any of the things mentioned in the post? Lab work? An assumption that if your thyroid is out of whack these vitamins/minerals must be too? Or because the American diet is in general pretty crappy - we all need extra vit/minerals?

Can I make changes to my diet while getting started on traditional meds and then when I feel as though I've pumped up on vit/minerals trial off the meds?

~L.

I always recommend whole foods for nutritional support. Check the site "World's Healthiest Foods". It lists each of those nutrients and the foods most dense with that nutrient. http://www.whfoods.com/nutrientstoc.php

Also, I'd suggest saliva testing of the interconnected hormones: thyroid, cortisol, progesterone, estrogen and testosterone. This post has more info about this: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...n#post11781897

Most of our diets are depleted in magnesium. We use Natural Calm. It is most bio-available. You want magnesium citrate. We also supplement with CLO for Vit A and Omega 3. I eat my two Brazil nuts (maximum, cause more can be too much selenium). And other food sources for the nutrients.

HTH, Pat


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Here's my story. I've had mild symptoms of hypothyroid for years. In December 2007 my levels were done and my TSH was 2.19. I started lithium in January, which is known for causing hypothyroidism, and severe symptoms of hypothyroid started in April 2008. Here is the list I made:
1.severe fatigue
2.a huge weight gain of 25 lbs in less than 3 months despite not changing eating habits at all
3.depression despite proper treatment for bipolar disorder
4.headaches
5.dry skin
6.extreme hair loss (lost half of hair volume in less than 3 months)
7.difficulty tolerating cold
8.lower body temperature (average around 97.4-97.7 mid-afternoon which is much lower than normal for me)
9.hoarseness of voice - constant
10. high cholesterol
11.itchy skin and rashes
12.fuzzy thinking

In May 2008 they took my levels again and they were at 5.01. At this point they said my thyroid was slightly enlarged and sent me for an ultrasound. The ultrasound was done in June and showed two small nodules on my thyroid and a slightly enlarged gland. In July they did blood work again and TSH was at 4.7. In August I had a thyroid scan (I am nursing a 2 year old but I felt okay with a technetium scan - I declined the uptake scan). They've never really given me the results of that, other than to say I need another one in 6 months. So I have major, major symptoms of hypothyroidism but they are saying since the levels are "normal" (less than or close to 5) then I don't have hypothyroidism. I don't have a family doctor so today I am going back to the walk-in clinic that has been treating me and taking all my blood work from the last 9 months and a list of all my symptoms and other issues and seeing if I can get them to treat my hypothyroid. I am also going to ask for a referral to an endicrinologist. Unfortunately I am in Ontario so we don't have a lot of say in our health care so if they say no, them I am out of luck. I had to withdraw from school (I'm in university) because the fatigue and weakness is so bad and I couldn't even get medical leave because the damn doctors won't admit there's a problem! Hopefully I'll be back with a happy update.


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## onelittleone (May 3, 2008)

Hi all. I was recently diagnosed with Hashimoto's. It was only after I BEGGED my primary to test me for something and everything. I have been ill for a long time. major allergies, heart palpitations or pvc's and severe joint pain in my hands. I have just done the salivary cortisol tests and the results show adrenal fatigue. My ND thinks the adrenal fatigue is what's causing the hashimoto's. Hoping to get back in the swing of things. It sucks to be SO incredibly tired when your 4 year old just wants to play


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onelittleone* 
Hi all. I was recently diagnosed with Hashimoto's. It was only after I BEGGED my primary to test me for something and everything. I have been ill for a long time. major allergies, heart palpitations or pvc's and severe joint pain in my hands. I have just done the salivary cortisol tests and the results show adrenal fatigue. My ND thinks the adrenal fatigue is what's causing the hashimoto's. Hoping to get back in the swing of things. It sucks to be SO incredibly tired when your 4 year old just wants to play









AF can cause Hashimoto's?
Can you point me to some studies on that or something?


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:

AF can cause Hashimoto's?
Can you point me to some studies on that or something?
I don't have studies, but my understanding is that when one is stressed and underperforming (either adrenals or thyroid) the other tries to compensate and eventually you'll often start seeing symptoms of the other (AF or hypo).


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## Monarchgrrl (Aug 16, 2007)

Hi all!

I'm just jumping in to ask a quick question that I can't seem to find the answer for. My DW had hyperthyroidism and had the radioactive iodine to stop the function a few years ago. So, now she has no thyroid and is taking the medication. I've read that you can't take the meds while pregnant, so how would that work if she ever decided to get pregnant? Is there a thyroid medication that you _can_ take while pregnant? She couldn't be on nothing, right? Thanks for any help you have.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Monarchgrrl* 
Hi all!

I'm just jumping in to ask a quick question that I can't seem to find the answer for. My DW had hyperthyroidism and had the radioactive iodine to stop the function a few years ago. So, now she has no thyroid and is taking the medication. I've read that you can't take the meds while pregnant, so how would that work if she ever decided to get pregnant? Is there a thyroid medication that you _can_ take while pregnant? She couldn't be on nothing, right? Thanks for any help you have.

I believe the medication you can't take while pregnant is the medication for hyperthyroidism/Graves'. Now that your DW has no thyroid, she would be classed as hypothyroid as she doesn't produce any thyroid hormone and that medication (thyroid hormone) is safe and absolutely necessary during pregnancy. In fact, they will likely increase that medication during pregnancy to avoid what is called "cretinism" in the baby.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I don't have studies, but my understanding is that when one is stressed and underperforming (either adrenals or thyroid) the other tries to compensate and eventually you'll often start seeing symptoms of the other (AF or hypo).

Ah okay, I remember that now.
I switched to natural thyroid (NatureThroid) not long ago and my dose isn't high enough yet so I'm having some memory issues atm. Thanks for humoring me.


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## llnmaw (Nov 1, 2005)

Did you get one when starting Synthroid - or it's generic? If so did you push through it and wind up being able to tolerate it? (it does not seem wise really...but wondering)

I started on 5mg of the generic for Synthroid on Sunday AM. By Sunday evening I thought I was coming down with a cold. By Tuesday it felt more flu like and for the last 3 days I've had the mother of all headaches. My last dose was Wednesday morning and finally after a nap this afternoon my headache is almost %100 gone. I NEVER EVER....EVER have a headache that I cannot cure with a dose or two of motrin. Occasionally decongestant comes into play if the first motrin does not do it (














know it's evil stuff...).

I have the same reaction when I try to take a multi-vitamin too. So I don't.

I plan to stay off the med for a week and trial it again, only not waiting until I feel quite so horrible to quit. Just want to be sure it was the med....ya know?

I'm disgusted that something I had to practically beg for is not going to be tolerated!

Guess I really do need to do some further research on vit/minerals....


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I have an odd question. Does anyone else notice being unable to focus their eyes very well if their medication is too low?

It's really common for brain fog of either hyper or hypo to not be able to focus.


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Monarchgrrl* 
Hi all!

I'm just jumping in to ask a quick question that I can't seem to find the answer for. My DW had hyperthyroidism and had the radioactive iodine to stop the function a few years ago. So, now she has no thyroid and is taking the medication. I've read that you can't take the meds while pregnant, so how would that work if she ever decided to get pregnant? Is there a thyroid medication that you _can_ take while pregnant? She couldn't be on nothing, right? Thanks for any help you have.

If she's sans thyroid then she's probably on a Synthroid (type) drug, right? It's IMPERATIVE that she takes that medication during pregnancy...being hypo while gestating is horrible for the fetus. So she'll also need blood draws ever 4-6 weeks.


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## academama (Sep 26, 2008)

I've subbed to this thread and have been reading the first thread. I'm getting bloodwork done this week to check out the possibility that I am hypothyroid. Thanks for all of this info; it's really helpful.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Well I went to the doctor and the stupid doctor says I'm not hypothyroid and won't help me because my numbers are 4.9. Even though I have ALL the symptoms, even though the numbers have tripled since January they still don't care. They are repeating the bloodwork again (the last bloodwork was in July) and I am hoping that the numbers have gone up so they will treat me! I got really upset and said to the doctor, "Well I feel like crap all the time and that isn't normal so what is wrong with me if not my thyroid???" They are doing blood tests for pretty much everything you can think of. Hopefully the thyroid numbers will increase or something else will turn up because I am sick and tired of being sick and tired!!!


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly* 
Well I went to the doctor and the stupid doctor says I'm not hypothyroid and won't help me because my numbers are 4.9. Even though I have ALL the symptoms, even though the numbers have tripled since January they still don't care. They are repeating the bloodwork again (the last bloodwork was in July) and I am hoping that the numbers have gone up so they will treat me! I got really upset and said to the doctor, "Well I feel like crap all the time and that isn't normal so what is wrong with me if not my thyroid???" They are doing blood tests for pretty much everything you can think of. Hopefully the thyroid numbers will increase or something else will turn up because I am sick and tired of being sick and tired!!!

I'm guessing there is no way for you to switch doctors?


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## kjbrown92 (Dec 13, 2007)

A couple years ago, the doctor found out that I have a multinodular goiter (they saw it on the MRI of my neck - herniated disk). I have been lurking here for a while, wondering if there could be more to the problem. Then this summer a friend of mine said that about 15 years ago, she had chronic UTIs and was sent to an endocrinologist, and her TSH was normal but there was some conversion that wasn't right. They put her on medication and her UTIs went away and she took it for 6-7 years until she got pregnant, when her numbers became normal, and she's been fine ever since.

My symptoms are mostly chronic UTIs and chronic back pain (though I also have fatigue, dry skin, brittle nails, etc.). My regular doctor and the rheumatologist both said that they've got to be related but neither of them could think of anything that could affect both besides heavy metal toxicity (which was checked) and MS (also checked). So, since my insurance doesn't need a referral, I went to the endo that my friend had gone to 15 years ago.

I had my thyroid results from my last 2 physicals:
06/07 TSH 1.43 and FT4 1.1
06/08 TSH 2.61 and FT4 1.2
From those two tests, knowing that I had multinodular goiter (which she said is often misread on an ultrasound and it could be Hashimotos), and my symptoms, she said she didn't need to do any additional testing, and started me on 25 mcg of Levoxyl. She said she'd check my numbers in 2 months. She thinks I'll probably need to be on 50 mcg, but she said that numbers need to be tweaked.... that sounds right, correct?
And she said that because I had the multinodular goiter, my regular doctor should have put me on a maintenance dose anyway, so that it wouldn't get bigger.

So she was very knowledgable, very nice, and I'm now on meds.

As a sidenote, she said that a lot of A type blood people can't take Armour thyroid. She said if it isn't working for someone, she'll ask their blood type, and it's almost always Type A. She thought it was interesting.... (I'm A, by the way).

So does all this sound like I'm headed in the right direction?
I'm supposed to get a copy of the ultrasound report for her so she can make sure it's not Hashimotos. She said the antibody test isn't always accurate for that (since it was negative for me). She said the ultrasound presents it.


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## AquariusHome (Aug 7, 2007)

Hi Mamas. I'm jumping in here - will work on catching up with the whole thread in time.

My 11 month old dd was just diagnosed with hypothyroidism. My mother, aunt, and grandmother also all have/ had Hashimoto's disease. So I'm thinking I need to get educated both for my dd and myself. I have a lot of the symptoms of hypo myself, but my blood work was just checked in the last month and was "normal" though I wasn't given the exact numbers and didn't think to ask at the time.

Anyhow, back to my dd - I really don't understand what is causing her hypo and I'm not totally convinced the diagnosis is accurate. But from what I've read it seems much more dangerous to not treat a baby with hypo than to treat a baby with normal thyroid. The reason for my confusion is that she was tested at birth as part of the PKU test, then at 1 month and both were normal. Then she was tested again at 11 months and had a TSH of 5.8 but middle of the normal range T4. A retest a week later had her TSH at 7.4 and still normal T4 and a normal TPO. So, apparently she doesn't have an autoimmune response causing this and it seems unlikely to be true congenital hypo since she was so old at diagnosis. She has Turner Syndrome and thyroid issues are common with TS but I would like to understand exactly why and so far I don't. Anyhow, she's been on 25mcg of Synthroid for about 10 days now.

Hoping this thread can shed some light on what is going on in her body and how I can help promote her thyroid function so we can rely as little as possible on medications.


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## ThankGod (Jun 26, 2008)

Two weeks after i gave birth my thyroid blew up. I was diagnosed as post pardum thyroiditis and told to be patient and eventually it would go away. Well, i was anything but patient. I've since had the left side removed because i had a 3.7cm nodule BUT the right side WILL NOT go down. My levels keep fluctuating but my TSH is next to nothing. .001. This new endo is now saying i have toxic goiter? I ask questions regarding things i should look into and she has no feed back for me. This is the third endo and i hope i don't have to switch again but this one can't answer any of my questions. I see her every six weeks and we wait...watch my levels....wait....

I'm on PTU and started to feel a lil better. Wonder what would happen if i wrapped my neck with some ice. Think that'd get it to go down!?!?!? Will it go down if my TSH starts to come back up? After two years of PTU she'll start with the radioactive iodine and i'm guessing that'll probably result in killing my thyroid completely. Being dependant upon meds for the rest of my life just does not appeal to me.

Is there anything i can to get this resolved?!

Thyroid...who knew it could be such a pain the butt!


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

It's been a while since anyone's posted to this thread and I'm sorry for those ladies who've asked questions as I have no answers for you.








I just had to share that since my last post, I've found out I'm pregnant and my mw *gets* the thyroid tests and everything. She understands why I told my old doctor to suck an egg when she told me a TSH of 4.6 (or whatever it was, I have it somewhere) is "normal". She has thyroid problems as well so that's a big bonus (for me in terms of quality of care, not so much for her







).
I found out the doctor who I've been transferred to is the one she sees and that she (the doctor) is very helpful and understanding.














: So excited to see her!


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThankGod* 
Two weeks after i gave birth my thyroid blew up. I was diagnosed as post pardum thyroiditis and told to be patient and eventually it would go away. Well, i was anything but patient. I've since had the left side removed because i had a 3.7cm nodule BUT the right side WILL NOT go down. My levels keep fluctuating but my TSH is next to nothing. .001. This new endo is now saying i have toxic goiter? I ask questions regarding things i should look into and she has no feed back for me. This is the third endo and i hope i don't have to switch again but this one can't answer any of my questions. I see her every six weeks and we wait...watch my levels....wait....

I'm on PTU and started to feel a lil better. Wonder what would happen if i wrapped my neck with some ice. Think that'd get it to go down!?!?!? Will it go down if my TSH starts to come back up? After two years of PTU she'll start with the radioactive iodine and i'm guessing that'll probably result in killing my thyroid completely. Being dependant upon meds for the rest of my life just does not appeal to me.

Is there anything i can to get this resolved?!

Thyroid...who knew it could be such a pain the butt!

My experience was with hypothyroid, but I ran across an alternative site that had a lot of info on both hyper and hypo, it was ithyroid.com. It may be a beginning place to read about nutrients and thyroid function, and maybe it will lead you to other helpful places as well.

FWIW, my mom was hyper, she was diagnosed with Graves after years of likely being hypo and undiagnosed. She really felt bad for a while, but neither of us knowing any other options at the time, she did RAI.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I found out the doctor who I've been transferred to is the one she sees and that she (the doctor) is very helpful and understanding.














: So excited to see her!

Congrats!







:


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## sonrisa (Nov 3, 2006)

Hello All

Thanks so much for the thread and all the info. I have not read every single post but am trying to catch up. I was diagnosed with Hashimotos 8 month pp...I had a very very difficult time BF...I uses an SNS for 6 months then took domperidone for 10 months and then stopped breastfeeding at 17 months. My dd is now 25 months and wonderful. I am writing today to ask anyone if they have noticed a difference in how their body responds to cuts, bruises or healing. I have noticed a huge difference. My body does not heal like it used to. I have had a huge celulatis infection, and the little scraps just take so long to heal. I take armour and my levels have been in the "normal range for about 6 months now...it took a year to go from a TSH of 39 to 2.0. Any one else heal differently now. I am 34 now and know I am not the same as I was 10 years ago. I am so scared of how my body handle illness. Any stories or suggestions???? Thanks I need some ideas.

Abigayle


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sonrisa* 
Hello All

Thanks so much for the thread and all the info. I have not read every single post but am trying to catch up. I was diagnosed with Hashimotos 8 month pp...I had a very very difficult time BF...I uses an SNS for 6 months then took domperidone for 10 months and then stopped breastfeeding at 17 months. My dd is now 25 months and wonderful. I am writing today to ask anyone if they have noticed a difference in how their body responds to cuts, bruises or healing. I have noticed a huge difference. My body does not heal like it used to. I have had a huge celulatis infection, and the little scraps just take so long to heal. I take armour and my levels have been in the "normal range for about 6 months now...it took a year to go from a TSH of 39 to 2.0. Any one else heal differently now. I am 34 now and know I am not the same as I was 10 years ago. I am so scared of how my body handle illness. Any stories or suggestions???? Thanks I need some ideas.

Abigayle

I have noticed a change in how I heal also BUT I've also noticed a *big* difference (increase) in my ability to heal if I'm taking "the right" supplements. B-vitamins, CLO, and a good multi-vitamin are essential. I would also suggest getting your adrenal function checked as thyroid dysfunction causes serious stress on your adrenals.
My $0.02.


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## sonrisa (Nov 3, 2006)

Jacqueline-

Thank you for the response. Can I ask you how you take your meds and vitamins. I take my armour first thing in the am. Then I eat. When should I take by Vit B and well I have Nordic Naturals Omega 3's and CLO. If you don't mind what do you ladies with Hashimotos take and when???

With kindness, Abigayle


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sonrisa* 
Jacqueline-
Thank you for the response. Can I ask you how you take your meds and vitamins. I take my armour first thing in the am. Then I eat. When should I take by Vit B and well I have Nordic Naturals Omega 3's and CLO. If you don't mind what do you ladies with Hashimotos take and when???
With kindness, Abigayle

I don't know if you've checked ithyroid.com yet or not, but there is some *very* good information on there regarding supplements (thanks, TanyaLopez for gently beating that one into my head







).
Here's the supplement list from ithyroid.
I always take my B-vitamins and multi-vite (prenatal presently) with my breakfast since they give your body some natural energy when they "kick in" and I take my CLO at night (though I'm not certain that's when I should be taking it). I take a bunch of other supplements when I'm not fighting nausea from pregnancy but this is what I've "whittled down to" while I'm dealing with that. I take Naturethroid, usually first thing in the morning but lately it's been with breakfast also since that's the best chance I have of it staying down.
Oh, wrt to your experience with bfing, mine was similar although I'm lucky to still be bfing (17 mo). My supply totally tanked about 2 months after ds2 was born and I used the SNS for a few months but (here's why I say I'm lucky) was able to wean off after I got put on thyroid meds. Thankfully this was just around the time that my freezer stash ran out.
I believe "minor" iodine deficiencies have also been shown to decrease the body's natural ability to heal (I can't remember where I read that so check it out, don't take my word) so it really doesn't surprise me that those of us with thyroid problems would see a change in healing.


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## nia82 (May 6, 2008)

Ok reposting here, maybe one of you knows









My sister has Hashimoto's and is TTC now. Her doctor asked her not to take any supplements containing iodine as it could interfere with her current medication (I guess it would result in a too high intake of iodine).
She lives in Europe and the local prenatals contain DHA/folic acid, but not a full range of vitamins and minerals, and she loved the complete prenatals that she saw over here. I've been really looking around, but I can't find a prenatal without iodine.
Does anyone of you know one? That would be awesome and I could bring it to here in January/February (yeah DS's first Europe trip!)









Thanks so much!


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kjbrown92* 
Then this summer a friend of mine said that about 15 years ago, she had chronic UTIs and was sent to an endocrinologist, and her TSH was normal but there was some conversion that wasn't right. They put her on medication and her UTIs went away and she took it for 6-7 years until she got pregnant, when her numbers became normal, and she's been fine ever since.

It sounds like you're heading in the right direction, Kathy. I'm glad you found a doctor who'll help you and I'm wondering how you're feeling now.
Regarding the quote above, if the conversion of T4 to T3 isn't "right", there's usually a zinc or selenium deficiency involved, I believe.


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## Kramas Creation (Nov 11, 2008)

Hypo here - wow theres lots of posts i only got thru the first 2 pages will hae to come back later lol

I have always supsected i have it and so did my previous family dr. I had and enlarged thyroid gland in my neck that he monitored but when he sent me for blood work it would always fall within a normal enough range that he would just monitor it and never medicated me.

Well i moved and never had a family dr for s afew years till i got preggo with my first though nothing ever came up in my blood work till this time around. Im on baby #3. And for my routine 15 week blood work it was noted that I have Hypothyroidism so FINALLY i am on synthroid for this.

Since being put on it my enlarged thyroid has almost dimished.

Something I later found out was that just because my levels come back as normal accourding to their charts they may not be normal for ME.

My current dr is having me testing reg. while im preggo and will continue to do so after the birth. Its hard to tell how things are different now from being on the meds as i was leaving that horrid first trimester and entering blissful tri #2 when the meds really kicked in.

I dont eat A LOT and my diet has not changed much over the years but i was putting on a lot of weight despite not eating anything. However my first 2 pregnancies i lost an avereage of 20lbs in the first trimester whereas this time around i didnt lose anything just gained despite my morning sickness and lack of eating so i guess my thryoid just finally gave up all together.


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

resubbing!


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## kdegroo (Dec 11, 2006)

Wow, I am so grateful for this thread. Already, I don't feel so alone!

After several docs and way too much energy advocating for myself, I was diagnosed with Hashimotos (tsh 117 unmedicated!) and adrenal burnout. I've been on Armour for 8 months and feel much better.

Right now, though, I am REALLY struggling with rage at my husband and no patience for my poor dd.

I just had my tsh tested and it was 1.9. Should I raise my dosage? Does anyone else have experience with rage symptoms and subtle lab results?

I just want to feel joy;(

Thanks everyone. And big hugs to you all.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kdegroo* 
Wow, I am so grateful for this thread. Already, I don't feel so alone!

After several docs and way too much energy advocating for myself, I was diagnosed with Hashimotos (tsh 117 unmedicated!) and adrenal burnout. I've been on Armour for 8 months and feel much better.

Right now, though, I am REALLY struggling with rage at my husband and no patience for my poor dd.

I just had my tsh tested and it was 1.9. Should I raise my dosage? Does anyone else have experience with rage symptoms and subtle lab results?

I just want to feel joy;(

Thanks everyone. And big hugs to you all.

Are you being treated for Adrenal Fatigue? There is a thread for that here as well. Personally, I think I would suspect that as the culprit before thyroid for rage issues.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Kate, that sounds really adrenal. ... just noticed Jacqueline said what I was going to.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Are you being treated for Adrenal Fatigue? There is a thread for that here as well. Personally, I think I would suspect that as the culprit before thyroid for rage issues.

Totally. For most of my life I would have uncontrollable, shaking rage, and I could tell it was a physical thing, not a psychological thing, yet all doctors wanted to do was give me antidepressants and tranquilizers for it.

When I started hydrocortisone, it went away, as did the hypoglycemia-like attacks.

I spent most of my life feeling like I was 100% batsh!t crazy, and all it was was stressed adrenals from growing up in a family that was batsh!t crazy and having what is essentially PTSD, imo. You would think any shrink worth their salt could figure that one out.









I feel sorry for any doctor who tries to give one of my dcs an antidepressant while I'm alive. They won't know what hit them.







:


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## camprunner (Oct 31, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bigeyes* 
Totally. For most of my life I would have uncontrollable, shaking rage, and I could tell it was a physical thing, not a psychological thing, yet all doctors wanted to do was give me antidepressants and tranquilizers for it.

When I started hydrocortisone, it went away, as did the hypoglycemia-like attacks.

I spent most of my life feeling like I was 100% batsh!t crazy, and all it was was stressed adrenals from growing up in a family that was batsh!t crazy and having what is essentially PTSD, imo. You would think any shrink worth their salt could figure that one out.









I feel sorry for any doctor who tries to give one of my dcs an antidepressant while I'm alive. They won't know what hit them.







:

You sound just like me! All these anti depressants and very few helped at all. Family situation very similar.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *camprunner* 
You sound just like me! All these anti depressants and very few helped at all. Family situation very similar.

If it were not for knowing a few people who were genuinely helped by psychiatrists, I would think the entire field was complete [email protected], based on my own experience. There is so much cookie-cutter medicine being practiced by lousy doctors it just infuriates me.







They do so much damage, and they are not held accountable at all because of how difficult it is to prove malpractice, _especially_ in cases involving things like adrenal fatigue, which so many docs don't even believe exists.

There are things in most antidepressants that suppress your thyroid function further, making you sicker, so every time some UAV doc gave us antidepressants they not only misdiagnosed us, _they made us sicker._


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## kdegroo (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks all.

I was wondering if it weren't more adrenal, too. Off to find thosee threads...

Thanks for such a knowledgable, supportive community!


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## Blucactus (Nov 20, 2006)

Bumping to the top....I have a fear that I belong here...


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blucactus* 
Bumping to the top....I have a fear that I belong here...









Do you have a doctor's appointment yet?








I know you'd rather not be here, but I think you'll like us.







Welcome to the thread.


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## Blucactus (Nov 20, 2006)

No, I'm still trying to find one. I have symptoms consistant with both adrenal and thyroid and know I need to get checked out...but I have two young children so I don't want to waste the time and energy going to ten random doctors till I find one I like and trust. Asking around in my crunchy circles currently...

Ps. thank you... I guess.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

So I guess I don't have thyroid problems. I've had it tested twice, both times fasting, which I guess could result in higher numbers, but even so, my numbers are supposedly OK. The last blood test I had, the doctor ordered a free T3, but they didn't run it. Last time they didn't run the free T4, this time they did.

My TSH is 1.949 uIU/mL They list the normal range as .450 - 4.50, but even with the .3 - 3.0 range, I'm within that.

My free T4 is 1.01 ng/dL They list the range as 0.61 - 1.76, and the one site I saw listed it as .7 - 2.0 as the normal range, but I'm within that range too.

Is it still worth going to an endocrinologist to see if it's something else? I don't know much about adrenal fatigue. The only numbers flagged on my report are thyroid and RDW being too high, which could indicate anemia of some sort.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

My (limited) understanding is that the _blood test_ for thyroid function is not as accurate for *bio-available* levels of thyroid function. See this old post of mine with more info: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=984

The recommendation is to have **saliva* testing* done for progesterone estrogen, testosterone, cortisol, AND thyroid.

ETA: search this thread for saliva testing info.

Pat


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Thanks, Pat.


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## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

Hmm, Viola, I'm in a similar situation. I'm not sure what all was run, but I know I didn't ahve any saliva tests.
My doctor would do anything, but the specialist I saw seemed skeptical of my questions and things I was bringing up. I knew I wasn't going to get very far with her, so I didn't keep talking.

However, my doctor also isn't coming up with many suggestions either.... Her best suggestion was to try the lowest dose of the mildest anti-depressant, to see if it might help, because 'well, it can't hurt and that's the only thing I can think of" (The endo.'s assessment was that I might be depressed and to see my primary doctor for more).

We've been dealing wiht other health issues, so mine/this have been put on the back burner, which is frustrating a bit, but I also can't afford the 75-150 a visit for the naturalpath (or other alternative healers).

The endo did say that I might have had some thyroid condition leftover from pregnancy that got 'caught' by the test I had over the summer. So she did retest me, and those came back in the 'normal' ranges.
But I just got the impression she said that bit to appease me a bit. She was very frank that the lab results my doctor sent her brought up NO concerns for her. It was NOT thryroid or adrenal, and commented several times how my doctor over tested the thyroid (like she just checked off every thryroid test in the book, rather than do a logical assessment, which could very well have some merit, I'm not really sure my doctor had a reason for the tests she sent me for).

Anyways, it's all still frustrating.

Jessica


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## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

Oh, I've been meaning to say I've had really weird thing lately fo in the evening having a very metallic taste in my mouth, especially if I drink some water later.
I had been sick and almost better a week ago when I had some nausea and the weird taste in my mouth.... which I thought maybe I was getting sicker, till I remembered that it had also happened about 2 months ago... which at that time had really freaked me out because the LAST time I'd had something like that was when I was pregnant.
And NO I'm not pregnant and do not wish to be at the moment.

Two nights ago it was sooo strong that I had to ask my dh to taste the water. He looked at me like I had 3 heads.

Anyways just wondering if that makes any sense to anyone--

Jessica


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

A long time ago I subbed and read through the first Thyroid thread. Subbing here now but I have a question.

My thyroid results recently came back low and Dr. wants me to start on a "low dose" of Armour thyroid. Would you start the drug immediately and work on the research as time passes--I am buying a few books today--or would you do the research first and wait to start the drug? I'm nervous because this is a lifelong commitment...but I have symptoms that I would like to alleviate and not put off treating.

I trust this doc very much (a friend with Thyroid problems referred me to her and they basically work together on treatment), and she wants me to start on a low dose (can't remember the number) and then see her in 6 weeks to evaluate again. WWYD?


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Gardenmom, you can start drugs and decide to stop later, that's not a problem. You could start, then research and decide if you want to keep treating conventionally, treat partly conventional and partly alternative, or go completely alternative, but you definitely don't need to decide right away.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Gardenmom, you can start drugs and decide to stop later, that's not a problem. You could start, then research and decide if you want to keep treating conventionally, treat partly conventional and partly alternative, or go completely alternative, but you definitely don't need to decide right away.









:
I started out on L-thyroxine, didn't feel it was doing what I needed it to (but at least I wasn't sleeping for 20 hours of the day anymore), switched to NatureThroid (similar to Armour) and added in more vitamin supplements under the supervision of my ND.
Do what you need to do to get to where you want to be.


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## kdegroo (Dec 11, 2006)

Hi mommas,

Hoping for comiseration and/or tips.

I have hypothyroidism, and have normal TSH levels with Armour Thyroid. We are TTC #2, but it is frustrating because my cycles are SO long (last month I Oed on CD 36). I have lots of EWCM for several patches leading up to Oing.

Any tips to shorten my cycle safely? Anyone else have a long cycle but conceived?

I'd love to share my fertility friend chart, but having trouble figuring out how to do that...

Thanks!
Kate


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kdegroo* 
Hi mommas,

Hoping for comiseration and/or tips.

I have hypothyroidism, and have normal TSH levels with Armour Thyroid. We are TTC #2, but it is frustrating because my cycles are SO long (last month I Oed on CD 36). I have lots of EWCM for several patches leading up to Oing.

Any tips to shorten my cycle safely? Anyone else have a long cycle but conceived?

I'd love to share my fertility friend chart, but having trouble figuring out how to do that...

Thanks!
Kate

I might be completely off base here, and maybe someone else on this thread will know, but I *think* that the length of your cycle has something to do with adrenal function. You might try asking over on the The Adrenal Fatigue thread.
Of course, I could be completely wrong too.
However, the majority of people suffering from a thyroid condition have an adrenal problem as well, so it might be worth checking out anyway.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Gardenmom, you can start drugs and decide to stop later, that's not a problem. You could start, then research and decide if you want to keep treating conventionally, treat partly conventional and partly alternative, or go completely alternative, but you definitely don't need to decide right away.

Thanks for the response. I'm having lots of different things happening at once which is confusing things, to say the least. Some if it is dizziness which my doctor didn't think was thyroid related (though I have read some things which say that it might be), liquid draining from one ear on a pretty regular basis. I woke up with a massive case of vertigo yesterday--enough to go the the ER in the ambulance, yikes! It appears that a sinus infection made my dizziness go over the top, so now I'm on antibiotics. (I'd love to hear if anyone on here has had vertigo associated with hypothyroid, please).

I have had two thyroid sonograms about 7 years apart which show 2 really tiny nodules that have not changed during that time. The doctor's don't think they're worth worrying about, though I'm wondering about it now that I've read a bit more on this thread about thyroid cancers.

Also had major blood loss at my son's birth (c-sec) followed by extremely low prolactin (like a man's level) so nursing ds was extremely difficult compared to when I nursed dd. When I looked into this at the time I ran across "Sheehan's syndrome" as a possibility, though it is a rare diagnosis, I guess. I'm keeping that on the back burner for review...

Anyhow, lots of variables are thrown into the mix, so I'm glad to know I'm not stuck with one particular treatment. For now I guess will go with the low dose of Armour and some Vestibular therapy for the inner ear stuff, and hope that I'm going down the right path.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 







:
I started out on L-thyroxine, didn't feel it was doing what I needed it to (but at least I wasn't sleeping for 20 hours of the day anymore), switched to NatureThroid (similar to Armour) and added in more vitamin supplements under the supervision of my ND.
Do what you need to do to get to where you want to be.

Thanks for the support. It's good to know I'm not stuck with anything for eternity. I wrote more in the above post but wanted to let you know I appreciate the info!


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Gardenmom, is the dizziness happening when you change position quickly? Like sitting to standing, or lying down to sitting? That's a big clue for adrenal problems. When I was asked by the chiro, I said no cause I'd gotten so used to it I didn't even realize it anymore.







It took me a long time to realize that my adrenals had been slowly becoming more and more stressed, it was a process of a couple decades, and then life stress pushed my adrenals and thyroid over the edge and I hit a wall. As Jacqueline mentioned, these two very often go hand-in-hand.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

I was going to say basically what Tanya did, but also wanted to ask if ear infections have been an ongoing problem for you and if you've ever been tested for allergies? From my research, undiagnosed allergies can often lead to an adrenal problem which can then lead to thyroid problems. It's really fascinating how interconnected all the systems of the body are.

ETA: Also, do you have asthma? This is often a misdiagnosis of adrenal fatigue and is also often a further symptom of undiagnosed allergies.


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

On to my next adventure - just found out I'm pregnant for the first time since being diagnosed with Thyroid Cancer, Total Thyroidectomy, Radioactive Iodine, etc.

Anybody else been through a pregnancy after all that? I have some questions.

Thanks


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AfricanQueen99* 
On to my next adventure - just found out I'm pregnant for the first time since being diagnosed with Thyroid Cancer, Total Thyroidectomy, Radioactive Iodine, etc.

Anybody else been through a pregnancy after all that? I have some questions.

Thanks

Can't say that I have been. I can't even imagine all of that.















Congrats on your pregnancy!


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Gardenmom, is the dizziness happening when you change position quickly? Like sitting to standing, or lying down to sitting? That's a big clue for adrenal problems.

I'd have to say that I'm 99% sure that it's not specifically tied to position change. It seems to be random and can occur while sitting at the computer, or standing washing the dishes, etc. with no major movement. If I feel a bit wobbly, and look at something still, it seems to get better. The nasty attack of vertigo that sent me to the ER started in my sleep. I may have rolled over to set it off, but don't think so. My feeling is that I had been sleeping on my back for some time without moving, but I can't be sure.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR*
I was going to say basically what Tanya did, but also wanted to ask if ear infections have been an ongoing problem for you and if you've ever been tested for allergies? From my research, undiagnosed allergies can often lead to an adrenal problem which can then lead to thyroid problems. It's really fascinating how interconnected all the systems of the body are

I've never had an ear infection (to my knowledge) and have only had two sinus infections in my life...this one and once about 6 years ago. No asthma, no allergies that I know of, but I've never been tested. My Mother had huge allergy problems around this age, as did my Sister (19 years older than me), but both have resolved on their own.

At this point I am pretty sure the dizziness is an inner ear thing due to a lot of factors that fit. Now of course it could be worse due to hormone problems, but I've always had motion sickness in some form, so this truly doesn't surprise me.

Thanks for all the info! I will definitely look into adrenal issues in depth. I can only absorb so much at each sitting, and have begun keeping a health journal as well as a list of thyroid related information and links to pursue.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

P.S. I just took my first pill of Armour tonight, sigh. Just wanted to add that it's truly depressing to be 39 (birthday yesterday) and thinking I might have to rely on a drug therapy every day for the rest of my life.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Sorry if this was mentioned, but dizziness can also be candida overgrowth, adrenal fatigue or low vitamin D. I get that from time to time.


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## AfricanQueen99 (Jun 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmom* 
Just wanted to add that it's truly depressing to be 39 (birthday yesterday) and thinking I might have to rely on a drug therapy every day for the rest of my life.









I'm sans thyroid so I don't have an option. But I wanted to add that I very much felt like this in the beginning. We're a no-aspirin, no-medications unless dying family. So, for me, it was a huge deal to be on drug therapy. But then I remembered that if I had a brain disorder I wouldn't have an issue with taking something...heart disorder I'd take something in a heartbeat. Why not allow myself the positive feelings of taking care of my body to the best of my ability. Being on lifelong medication isn't a bad thing...it just is what it is. It took me about a year to get to this point mentally, though.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Subbing

I may be joining you.







I went to the doc today because I feel awful. He is suspecting Hypothyroid. They are doing some blood tests and I should have some results next week.

I see you all are discussing plantar fasciitis. I do have that.









Here are some of my symptoms:

Fatigue
Sluggishness
Increased sensitivity to cold (I feel very cold most of the time)
Pale, dry skin
A puffy face
An elevated blood cholesterol level (at least when last tested two years ago)
Unexplained weight gain (24 pounds since this summer)
Muscle aches, tenderness and stiffness
Pain, stiffness or swelling in your joints (I am having a terrible time with my back, especially in the morning)
Muscle weakness
Heavier than normal menstrual periods (I thought this was because I had my tubes tied in May)
Brittle fingernails and hair
Depression (I was thinking this was PPD)
Hair Loss (Again thinking this was post partum stuff. But its been alot more this time)
Dizzieness
Lack of sex drive....sigh









Some of this I attributed to having a baby almost 8 months ago. But I still feel wiped out.

One question. I am having problems with both ears. I have had popping in my left ear for two years now (after an ear infection). Then now the right ear as of last month. The Doc mentioned this could be tied to Hypo. If my tests come back negative he said I should see an ENT. He did look in my ears and they looked normal.

ETA - Confussion!

Memory Loss

Dang, I keep remembering more symptoms.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Maybe I should get a new name of "Thread Killer".









What happens if my test results come back negative? Am I crazy? Is this all in my head? One part of me wants nothing to be wrong and the other wants something to be wrong to put a name on it. Also to prove, its not me being lazy and fat.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Sorry, I meant to respond to you yesterday but I've been having 2 (semi) good days in a row, which is rare this pregnancy. (That means I felt well enough to actually get something done around the house.)
It sounds very much like you belong with us. I hope that you see the results on the test to help you feel better. I believe there may be something to do with ear problems and adrenal fatigue, not so much with thyroid problems, though everything is connected in the body, yk?
There is a theory which states thyroid problems may be the result of long untreated adrenal fatigue, and adrenal fatigue may be exacerbated by allergies (which I would look into if you're prone to ear infections).
HTH a little at least.
Sorry you're joining us but you're welcome to be here.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatWrangler* 
Maybe I should get a new name of "Thread Killer".









No way. That is my title (usually)! Welcome to the thread. I'm new here too, and have already gotten great help and suggestions from the Mamas here.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Sorry, I meant to respond to you yesterday but I've been having 2 (semi) good days in a row, which is rare this pregnancy. (That means I felt well enough to actually get something done around the house.)
It sounds very much like you belong with us. I hope that you see the results on the test to help you feel better. I believe there may be something to do with ear problems and adrenal fatigue, not so much with thyroid problems, though everything is connected in the body, yk?
There is a theory which states thyroid problems may be the result of long untreated adrenal fatigue, and adrenal fatigue may be exacerbated by allergies (which I would look into if you're prone to ear infections).
HTH a little at least.
Sorry you're joining us but you're welcome to be here.









Off to research adrenal fatigue.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmom* 
No way. That is my title (usually)! Welcome to the thread. I'm new here too, and have already gotten great help and suggestions from the Mamas here.

















We can share the title then.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

tic toc tic toc


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmom* 
P.S. I just took my first pill of Armour tonight, sigh. Just wanted to add that it's truly depressing to be 39 (birthday yesterday) and thinking I might have to rely on a drug therapy every day for the rest of my life.









Well if it makes you feel better I'm only 27. I did used to feel down about having to take medicine. How do you like armour? I actually ended up liking synthroid better. I feel more calm on it for some reason. I hope it helps you! Taking my medicine is like brushing my teeth now. I do not think I'm suffering any side effects from it. At this, I'm happy to not be fatigued. I would do a rain dance outside naked if that is what it took! Seriously, go with what works.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Tests came back negative. Now what?


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatWrangler* 
Tests came back negative. Now what?










You need to get a copy of the labwork (if you don't have it already) and look at the values yourself. I felt horrible for a year as my labwork slowly, slowly drifted out of range. The reference range is too wide for most people. Once you get your labwork, this thread can help with the numbers.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Okay. I don't have a copy of them, but I will request them.

He (the FP Doc) suggest I contact an endocrinologist or my OB. That maybe they could run a more specialized test.

Is this all in my head? Did I gain 24 pounds since the summer because I just don't know how to eat right? Am I freezing all the time because I am cold blooded?


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatWrangler* 

He (the FP Doc) suggest I contact an endocrinologist or my OB. That maybe they could run a more specialized test.

Is this all in my head? Did I gain 24 pounds since the summer because I just don't know how to eat right? Am I freezing all the time because I am cold blooded?










Or did the doctor not know which "specialized" (appropriate) tests to order? But you can read and know.









Pat


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatWrangler* 
Tests came back negative. Now what?










As Tanya said and Pat has suggested, the doctor may have no real idea how to interpret the results, nor even which tests he needed to run. By the time my hypothyroidism was "caught" (despite years of complaining about symptoms etc etc), my TSH was over 100 (and that's a lab they *usually* run when checking thyroid).
Don't fret. There's hope.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Or did the doctor not know which "specialized" (appropriate) tests to order? But you can read and know.









Pat











Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
As Tanya said and Pat has suggested, the doctor may have no real idea how to interpret the results, nor even which tests he needed to run. By the time my hypothyroidism was "caught" (despite years of complaining about symptoms etc etc), my TSH was over 100 (and that's a lab they *usually* run when checking thyroid).
Don't fret. There's hope.



















OH! Now I get what Pat was trying to tell me.










Okay, this Doc is really really new. I mean he just did a rotation with Dr. Weil last year. Thats one reason why I decided to start seeing him because I thought with doing a rotation with Dr. Weil he would be more open to other alternatives.

So tomorrow (its after 5:30 here now)....I will call and get copies of my labs. I am then going to call an Endo. I bet I will need a referral. My insurance doesn't need it, but the Endo might. My FP Doc said he would be happy to do that for me.

My poor kids are looking at me wondering if Mommy was losing it. (saw me crying my eyes out because I so desperately wanted an answer). My DD1 even brought me tissues. Told me Daddy will hold you when he come home.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

With all your stress mama, it is probably adrenal fatigue. And I don't need a test to notice that.









Here are some Cliff Notes, with links, about thyroid and adrenal issues, testing, plus nutritional alternatives and support. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d#post12957471

Pat


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Also, some Bach Flower remedies are your friend.









Adding Natural Calm will help significantly. http://www.calmnatural.com/product/18340500004

As well as some Bach Flower remedies. They are all natural, safe remedies for stress, upset, fear, depression, etc. You can select those that best suit based upon reading about each one or taking the quiz at the remedy finder (first link). You can choose up to 5 or so and mix a few drops of each in water and sip as needed, or take straight in the midst of a stressful situation.

Guaranteed to help.







:

http://www.ainsworths.com/remedy/default.aspx

http://www.bachcentre.com/centre/remedies.htm

http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm

I love Rescue Remedy.









The big thing is to increase your health status. Increase consumption of CLO, CO, magnesium, zinc, vitamins A, B, C, D, E, bone broths, whole food probiotics: yogurt, kefir, kombucha, fermented vegetables.

Epsom salt baths will help with stress!

You have a busy and challenging month ahead.

Pat


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatWrangler* 
Okay. I don't have a copy of them, but I will request them.

He (the FP Doc) suggest I contact an endocrinologist or my OB. That maybe they could run a more specialized test.

Is this all in my head? Did I gain 24 pounds since the summer because I just don't know how to eat right? Am I freezing all the time because I am cold blooded?










The thing you need to get firmly fixed in your head is that you can figure this out. I got blown off by my first doc (being freezing cold while pregnant is NOT normal) but that was actually a real blessing (a bit disguised for a while). These are real changes--they're not normal for _you_. You will find your answers--it's hard when you feel bad, many of us have been there, but this will work out.









ETA--and yes to Pat's (and Jacqueline's) suggestion that adrenal fatigue and thyroid problems often co-exist. Took me forever to really see that my adrenals had been going downhill for years before my thyroid very abruptly tanked. And you've got enough stress, I think, that your adrenals have been stressed (each can exist separately of course as well).


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

I just picked up my lab results. Now what?


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Are you willing to post the thyroid-related stuff here? I'm assuming everything they tested (however much it was based on your symptoms) was in range?

Um... off the top of my head, the range for TSH usually goes up to about 5-ish, but most people feel good under 2 (I felt good at 1.05 and bad at 1.55). Did they do free T3 and free T4? Those are usually helpful as well.


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## FrannieP (Sep 11, 2007)

Tanya:

Quote:

the range for TSH usually goes up to about 5-ish, but most people feel good under 2 (I felt good at 1.05 and bad at 1.55).
That's really interesting.

I just had thyroid labs done for my 12 yr old dd.
Her tsh was 2.24
I also had them test her ferretin levels which are:
37 (13-150)

The MD insists her thyroid function is "normal".
Her symptoms:
Tired
Cold
Lower back pain
Dry skin
Heavy periods (she just started menstruating this year.)
She's a bit heavy - not fat - but chubby around the middle.

She also gets dizzy several times throughout the day at school. The way she describes it it sounds like light headedness - especially in P.E.

And a couple times recently she's gotten a bad headache on one side above the eye area. Not always on same side though.

She doesn't have any hair loss - in fact she's got 3 ppl's worth of hair!

MD wouldn't test for antibodies even though I have Hashi's and my mom has Grave's.

I started dd on iodine and it is helping some.

My question for you all is, does it sound like she needs more thyroid support?
MD won't give her Armour, but I could give it to her myself. Or is there something else???

Thanks for any ideas you all may have.

FP


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Frannie, for a kid I'd probably try to find someone to work with (maybe a TSH of 2.24 _could_ be normal, but if there are symptoms, I'd want to work to improve thyroid functioning). I went alternative for my thyroid and adrenal problems--and since so many people find that adrenal problems precede thyroid, I'd want someone who is able to deal with both--ND, maybe a chiropractor or acupuncturist, probably some MDs as well, maybe others too.

For me, I never took synthroid or armour or whatever--by the time I _finally_ got a prescription, I'd decided to turn to the dark side and just do this with vitamin and mineral supplements. I believe that hypo (and hyper) thyroid problems are mostly mineral and vitamin deficiencies. That's how I treated myself, but I didn't address my adrenals which were pretty fatigued, and so I still had to go back and do more work. One place to read a lot about vitamins and minerals and thyroid function is ithyroid.com--but again, with a kid, I'd probably try to find someone to work with.

Eventually you'll want to think about why her body's gotten so out of balance. My mom has Graves (was probably undiagnosed hypo most of her adult life), so I do think some of this is genetic, but I think it's more an inherited tendency to be susceptible to particular stresses that manifest in particular ways in us. Other people are susceptible to other things.


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## FrannieP (Sep 11, 2007)

Thanks for the reply, Tanya.
I was wondering about testing her adrenals. Mine are shot.
I don't take Armour or Synthroid either - even though I have scripts for both.
Iodine has been wonderful for me - I no longer have hypo symptoms or detectable antibodies.
I do have to take adrenal support though or I get in trouble fast.

Dd's symptoms seem like low iron to me most the time, but I think her thyroid could also use some support. She just seems so young to have these imbalances!







Sigh...

She eats well, drinks nourishing herbal infusions, etc.

I would like to take her to a ND - I need a money tree though cause her insurance won't cover one.

Thanks again.

FP


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Are you willing to post the thyroid-related stuff here? I'm assuming everything they tested (however much it was based on your symptoms) was in range?

Um... off the top of my head, the range for TSH usually goes up to about 5-ish, but most people feel good under 2 (I felt good at 1.05 and bad at 1.55). Did they do free T3 and free T4? Those are usually helpful as well.









:
My TSH is sitting at 2.9 right now and I'm having more symptoms than I can shake a stick at but I'm being told by my mw and doctor's to leave it alone, in simple terms. I can't find my lab report that has where my ranges were when I was feeling *much* better.








Thank goodness I see my ND in a couple of weeks. He has the lab reports in question so I'll ask to see them then. I know there's *no way* I'll find them between then and now (not sure what box they're packed in and I'm not getting a whole lot of unpacking done right now anyway







).


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Oh Jacqueline! I remember how horrible I felt when I was pregnant and hypo, why do people not listen when a pregnant woman (anyone, really) says hey, I feel BAD? I'd think upping your dose wouldn't be difficult, and it seems most people on meds need to have their doses increased during pregnancy (I went from mostly-normal to hypo during pregnancy, so it makes sense, the nutritional demands of pregnancy are huge).


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Frannie, your dd's symptoms sound exactly like mine (except back pain).

I've been reading along, and have some questions:

For those of you taking Armour, what time of day do you take it? I got my Rx in the evening and started right away 30mg 1x/day, but my friend who has been through all this said to definitely take it in the morning, so I skipped one evening and am now taking it in the morning. I now feel like I'm crashing around 4pm again, so will probably need a higher dose when I go over this with my Dr or need to split the dose and take it twice a day. Any thoughts on timing or split dosage? (The package insert had nothing to say on when I should take it, by the way.)

Also, can you OD on iodine? The day I went to the ER with the whopper of a case of vertigo, I had just started supplementing with kelp iodine (two days in a row, 225mcg tablet) then had a very large shellfish dinner on the second day, and woke up with severe vertigo (vertigo was definitely related to a sinus infection, though other factors are at work here). I was wondering if I should try it again, or wait for more input. It seems like a very basic/no worries type of supplement, but I'm wondering if anyone has had problems with it.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
Thanks for the reply, Tanya.
I was wondering about testing her adrenals. Mine are shot.
I don't take Armour or Synthroid either - even though I have scripts for both.
Iodine has been wonderful for me - I no longer have hypo symptoms or detectable antibodies.
I do have to take adrenal support though or I get in trouble fast.

Dd's symptoms seem like low iron to me most the time, but I think her thyroid could also use some support. She just seems so young to have these imbalances!







Sigh...

She eats well, drinks nourishing herbal infusions, etc.

I would like to take her to a ND - I need a money tree though cause her insurance won't cover one.

Thanks again.

FP

Iodine alone helped somewhat for me, I'm glad it's been even better for you. Zinc and selenium were other biggies for me (ithyroid talks about a _lot_ of minerals, but the key ones are fewer IMO). And just looking at food sources, in reasonable amounts (meaning don't eat 10 brazil nuts each day unless you're _really_ sure you want that much selenium) may help at least keep things sorta even. I think I got pretty low in vitamin A too, since hypothyroid people don't convert beta-carotene to A well (or at all).

How much iodine are you taking, if I may ask? I'm thinking it's time for me to supplement again--I did it for a while, then focused on other stuff, but now I think it's time to get back to it. I'm thinking Iodoral, 1/2 tab or maybe a full tab. I think my adrenals are getting better, enough that it's time to switch back to thinking about my thyroid again (I think I'm mostly okay, but I think my BBTs are a bit off, much much better than before, but not right).

Thing is--I was deficient/borderline deficient when pregnant, so my kids didn't start out with good reserves, so that may be part of it. For us, in my family, I'm seeing health problems creep earlier and earlier each generation, as each mom is more depleted than the previous one.

Oh yeah--I meant to add that that ferritin did seem low. Mine was higher when my current doc mentioned she didn't think it was at a good level. My vitamin D is also probably very low--hard to tell which of these things mostly/always go together, and which are coincident.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Are you willing to post the thyroid-related stuff here? I'm assuming everything they tested (however much it was based on your symptoms) was in range?

Um... off the top of my head, the range for TSH usually goes up to about 5-ish, but most people feel good under 2 (I felt good at 1.05 and bad at 1.55). Did they do free T3 and free T4? Those are usually helpful as well.

Okay, here is what it basically says:

Free T4: 1.00
TSH: 2.48
Thyroid Peroxidase AB: .7
Thryoglobulin AB: .4
There are more listed but these stood out to me as something you might want to know.

Out of Range but normal variant
MPV: 10.6
Neutrophil %: 66.8
Monocyte%: 4.9


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Oh Jacqueline! I remember how horrible I felt when I was pregnant and hypo, why do people not listen when a pregnant woman (anyone, really) says hey, I feel BAD? I'd think upping your dose wouldn't be difficult, and it seems most people on meds need to have their doses increased during pregnancy (I went from mostly-normal to hypo during pregnancy, so it makes sense, the nutritional demands of pregnancy are huge).









Yeah, I don't know how many times this pregnancy I've had my blood sugar tested and been tested for anemia because of my symptoms. One of the mws in my practice doesn't believe nausea/vomiting's a problem before 20weeks ("Lots of women lose weight in the first and early 2nd trimester."














and, of course, the tiredness is from being pregnant. ("Every pregnant woman is tired. It's normal." REALLY? Every pregnant woman can sleep for 12 or more hours a day and wake up still feeling like an unwiped a$$?!!)
Sorry. I'm getting a little tired of this song and dance and you guys (here on MDC) seem to be the only ones that listen to me at all. I'm going to go and cry now.


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## *Jessica* (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Yeah, I don't know how many times this pregnancy I've had my blood sugar tested and been tested for anemia because of my symptoms. One of the mws in my practice doesn't believe nausea/vomiting's a problem before 20weeks ("Lots of women lose weight in the first and early 2nd trimester."














and, of course, the tiredness is from being pregnant. ("Every pregnant woman is tired. It's normal." REALLY? Every pregnant woman can sleep for 12 or more hours a day and wake up still feeling like an unwiped a$$?!!)
Sorry. I'm getting a little tired of this song and dance and you guys (here on MDC) seem to be the only ones that listen to me at all. I'm going to go and cry now.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmom* 
Frannie, your dd's symptoms sound exactly like mine (except back pain).

I've been reading along, and have some questions:

For those of you taking Armour, what time of day do you take it? I got my Rx in the evening and started right away 30mg 1x/day, but my friend who has been through all this said to definitely take it in the morning, so I skipped one evening and am now taking it in the morning. I now feel like I'm crashing around 4pm again, so will probably need a higher dose when I go over this with my Dr or need to split the dose and take it twice a day. Any thoughts on timing or split dosage? (The package insert had nothing to say on when I should take it, by the way.)


I split my dose up and take it throughout the day. Your body doesn't dump all your thyroid hormones at one time, why would you take your replacement all at once? I think that's a big mistake doctors make, having people take all of it at once. I take a little more in the AM than I do for the rest of the day since I haven't had any while I was sleeping and it helps me get moving. I take mine 4x a day, but some people take 2x a day. Whatever works, right?


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Anne, could you add the reference ranges too? Esp for something like free T4, I don't remember, but I think healthy, feeling good people are in the upper third IIRC. Also, yes, that TSH looks high to me.

Gardenmom--my late afternoon crashes were adrenal-related rather than thyroid. Not sure if you've looked into adrenal fatigue, or whether it seems like it may also be an issue for you, but treating both (if they're both issues, of course) is usually best--you may not need a higher dose of Armour so much as some (or more) adrenal support.

Jacqueline--wish I could kick her a$$ long-distance for you. At least my midwife believed I felt horrible and had turned hypo, but we couldn't figure out how to get help (my doc blew me off, her doc looked at my labs and said they weren't bad enough for him to treat even though I had symptoms), but just the support was huge. Can you avoid appointments with this one midwife (sounds like a practice)? Avoiding negative people really helped, I didn't have the extra energy to fight, I just needed to get through each day (preferably without yelling too much at my toddler







: ). It feels never-ending, but you will get through this, and there will be some things you can take from it that will be good.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Anne, could you add the reference ranges too? Esp for something like free T4, I don't remember, but I think healthy, feeling good people are in the upper third IIRC. Also, yes, that TSH looks high to me.



Free T4 Range: ng/dl .58 -1.64
TSH Range: ulU/ml .34-5.60
Thats what it states on the lab results.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Anne, could you add the reference ranges too? Esp for something like free T4, I don't remember, but I think healthy, feeling good people are in the upper third IIRC. Also, yes, that TSH looks high to me.

Jacqueline--wish I could kick her a$$ long-distance for you. At least my midwife believed I felt horrible and had turned hypo, but we couldn't figure out how to get help (my doc blew me off, her doc looked at my labs and said they weren't bad enough for him to treat even though I had symptoms), but just the support was huge. Can you avoid appointments with this one midwife (sounds like a practice)? Avoiding negative people really helped, I didn't have the extra energy to fight, I just needed to get through each day (preferably without yelling too much at my toddler







: ). It feels never-ending, but you will get through this, and there will be some things you can take from it that will be good.









*Both* of the mws are blowing off the hypo symptoms (and one has hypo herself). They defer to my doctor, who apparently defers to the lab reference ranges. Luckily, I'm going to see my ND in a couple of weeks who *was* doing my thyroid stuff before. If worst comes to worst, I'm probably going to increase my meds 1/4 grain myself to see if it helps. I'll get in crap from the medical professionals, but hey, they're not the ones who have to live in this body. My feet (plantar fascitis) are killing me, I'm exhausted, my hair's falling out again, my skin is dry, my sex drive (which I had finally had a semblance of before I got pregnant) is non-existant- even though I *want* to have sex with DH, I cannot get my body to respond appropriately (the only time I've been like *that* is when I'm hypo).







Bleh.
The problems with the one mw are her stance on bfing in pregnancy and her beliefs about when m/s is a problem. I basically just ignore her.









ETA: Oh and yes, from what I recall, the T4 should be in the upper third.


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## ChristSavesAll (Mar 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Daizynee* 








Hi everyone,
I haven't been diagnosed with anything (well, haven't seen a doc) just having suspicions that perhaps my thyroid is overactive.

I had a baby 10 months ago (my second), I lost all the baby weight pretty quickly and in the last couple months have lost an additional 10-12 pounds - I guess this is what has me thinking about a thyroid prob because I have not tried whatsoever through diet or exercise. I used to exercise at least 4 times a week to try to lose/maintain. and now it seems the weight just keeps dropping off while I do nothing. I am still nursing so maybe I am just lucky? It is just weird for me as this has never been my 'problem'. I have always had to 'work' to keep my weight down. I am pretty average - about 5'5" and now about 120 pounds. My average was around 132. I did get down to 124 when I had circumstancial depression a few years ago.

I do have some other possible symptoms:
Frequent bowel movements - talking 3 or 4 times each morning - usually very loose.

Fatigue and Insomnia - Throughout my life I have had bouts of insomnia though and the fatigue could be attributed to being at home with my 2 girls.

Concentration - some days I just can't get my words out, can't focus, feel like I don't know how I can get through the day. Also used to have a really good memory, now CRS.

Dizziness - throughout my life I have had dizzy spells sometimes accompanied by hot/cold flashes. I have mentioned it to doc's and they have blamed low blood pressure.

Mood swings/depression = I do suffer these, however as mentioned before I have had circumstancial depression which the circumstance is something that kind of lingers at times in my life.

Neck pain - Not sure if this is even worth mentioning but I almost always have a sore, tense neck. No bumps or goiters or anything though. I think it is just wear I carry my tension.

So...I am not sure if this is something I should bother going to a doc for or if I should just consider myself lucky that I have been able to bounce back to my teenage weight.

Should I be concerned?
TIA

you need iodine and some adrenal support like siberian ginseng. naking but will post info links later


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## ChristSavesAll (Mar 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llnmaw* 
I went to see my care provider and got my labs. I was surprised to see that my testosterone has tanked! This is sorta funny to me because I do still have a fairly decent sex drive...just to exhausted to do much of anything about it!

Labs:
Thyroglobulin Auto Antibody: <20 (range:0.0-40.00)
Thyroid Peroxidase Auto Ab: <10 (range:0.0-35.0)
TSH Reflex: 1.79 (range:.040-5.00) **This was 0.9 in Jan 08**
B12: 549 (range: 247-911)
Folate: >24 (range:5.4-24.0)
Free Testosterone:0.8 (range:5.0-40.0) Egads eh??!?
Rheumatoid Factor: 24 (range <20)
Free T4: 1.1 (range: .07-1.5)
Cyclic Citrullinated Peptd AB:3 (range: <20)

Is the thyroglobulin the one that would indicate Hashimotos?
I think we missed the free t3?
Is there anything missing from my list (re: thyroid eval) that I still should get?

Sadly I came away from my appt. feeling a bit like a dork. Not really my care providers fault, just how I felt I guess. I did put together my list and I nearly chickened out and kept it in my pocket because it felt like a goofy list of complaints! Is that totally lame of me or what? In the end I'm still not on anything for my thyroid because....drum roll please....my labs don't indicate a need for it!







:







:







: She said that we would just keep watching my labs and when my TSH starts to move then we could get started on a low dose and wait for my numbers to really shoot up to adjust it.

By far my biggest complaint is fatigue - well that and a giant thyroid with a nice fat and happy growth - and the more we discussed my fatigue we are in agreement that I'm not sleeping well. Which I'm not. So I got a prescription for something and really hesitate to take it! I want sleep. I need sleep. I don't want to take a pill to help me sleep! I truly believe if my body was functioning as it should sleep would come much easier.

A final question. Should I ask for a referral to an endo? When my RA factor came back indicating RA she quickly and without hesitation referred me to a rheumatologist. If she thinks I'm having a thyroid disease why not send me to a person that has this as a specialty too?

Time to grow a spine and ask for something for my thyroid and a referral - right?

~L.


Oh honey you poor thing! Please tell me SOMEONE has told you about iodine?!! Get your levels tested!!!

You need iodoral, selenium, vit e, zinc, fish oil, and something for your adrenals like licorice root(only for 6 weeks max then switch to) siberian ginseng(two weeks on two weeks off I think it is).


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## ChristSavesAll (Mar 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kdegroo* 
Wow, I am so grateful for this thread. Already, I don't feel so alone!

After several docs and way too much energy advocating for myself, I was diagnosed with Hashimotos (tsh 117 unmedicated!) and adrenal burnout. I've been on Armour for 8 months and feel much better.

Right now, though, I am REALLY struggling with rage at my husband and no patience for my poor dd.

I just had my tsh tested and it was 1.9. Should I raise my dosage? Does anyone else have experience with rage symptoms and subtle lab results?

I just want to feel joy;(

Thanks everyone. And big hugs to you all.

Here is a link with tons of other links regarding iodine deficiency and connections with other things...


Here is a link with a list of iodine deficiency symptoms

Remember things like fluoride, chlorine, bromide, lead, and mercury inhibit the uptake of iodine...

However with a high dosage of iodine it can help your body detox these heavy metals, by excreting it through your urine.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
Remember things like fluoride, chlorine, bromide, lead, and mercury inhibit the uptake of iodine...

However with a high dosage of iodine it can help your body detox these heavy metals, by excreting it through your urine.

Isn't mobilization of toxic chemicals (including heavy metals) not a wise idea without proper support for detox pathways?


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## ChristSavesAll (Mar 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmom* 
Frannie, your dd's symptoms sound exactly like mine (except back pain).

I've been reading along, and have some questions:

For those of you taking Armour, what time of day do you take it? I got my Rx in the evening and started right away 30mg 1x/day, but my friend who has been through all this said to definitely take it in the morning, so I skipped one evening and am now taking it in the morning. I now feel like I'm crashing around 4pm again, so will probably need a higher dose when I go over this with my Dr or need to split the dose and take it twice a day. Any thoughts on timing or split dosage? (The package insert had nothing to say on when I should take it, by the way.)

Also, can you OD on iodine? The day I went to the ER with the whopper of a case of vertigo, I had just started supplementing with kelp iodine (two days in a row, 225mcg tablet) then had a very large shellfish dinner on the second day, and woke up with severe vertigo (vertigo was definitely related to a sinus infection, though other factors are at work here). I was wondering if I should try it again, or wait for more input. It seems like a very basic/no worries type of supplement, but I'm wondering if anyone has had problems with it.

You should be careful when taking kelp as it also has arsenic in it as well as bromin which inhibits the uptake of iodine... one can only "overdose" on iodine once your body has reached sufficiency (highly unlikely unless you've been supplementing 50mg a day for a year) and still take 20mg per day... Once sufficiency has been reached you should be consuming at LEAST 12.5mg of iodine a day. I have an Iodoral source for 33 bucks for a 180 pill bottle! Each pill has 12.5 mg in case you don't know about iodoral, so thats a 6 month supply!

I'm waiting for mine in the mail! Can't wait till it gets here, the whole family will be getting their daily dose.


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## ChristSavesAll (Mar 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Yeah, I don't know how many times this pregnancy I've had my blood sugar tested and been tested for anemia because of my symptoms. One of the mws in my practice doesn't believe nausea/vomiting's a problem before 20weeks ("Lots of women lose weight in the first and early 2nd trimester."














and, of course, the tiredness is from being pregnant. ("Every pregnant woman is tired. It's normal." REALLY? Every pregnant woman can sleep for 12 or more hours a day and wake up still feeling like an unwiped a$$?!!)
Sorry. I'm getting a little tired of this song and dance and you guys (here on MDC) seem to be the only ones that listen to me at all. I'm going to go and cry now.










Did you know the first two months during pregnancy the baby uses your thyroid to get the hormones it needs? By the third trimester they have grown their own and are relying on that, but they pick up any deficiencies that you have unfortunately.


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## ChristSavesAll (Mar 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Isn't mobilization of toxic chemicals (including heavy metals) not a wise idea without proper support for detox pathways?

Unfortunately I've got two 5 year olds to get off to bed and a 5 month old needing some attention since she's teething so I dont have time to provide links... BUT "support for detox pathways"? Iodine moves the heavy metals out of your body primarily through your urine, some unfortunately(happens without supplementation) in your breastmilk. Taking high doses of iodine to detox will cause you to experience symptoms of bromine toxicity but it subsides after about a week ( longer for some people or with higher dosage) and you feel waaaay better afterwards.

Here is a blog about one womans journey using iodoral to detox


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
Unfortunately I've got two 5 year olds to get off to bed and a 5 month old needing some attention since she's teething so I dont have time to provide links... BUT "support for detox pathways"? Iodine moves the heavy metals out of your body primarily through your urine, some unfortunately(happens without supplementation) in your breastmilk. Taking high doses of iodine to detox will cause you to experience symptoms of bromine toxicity but it subsides after about a week ( longer for some people or with higher dosage) and you feel waaaay better afterwards.

Here is a blog about one womans journey using iodoral to detox

Yes, support for detox pathways- the manners in which your body actually gets rid of toxins ie your kidneys and urinary tract.
If there isn't enough of the vitamins to keep these organs functioning optimally (there's more to it than just your kidneys and urinary tract but I haven't been able to do as much research on the particulars of detoxing as I'd like), then much of the toxins mobilized through an iodine increase will actually resettle into other organs and tissues *increasing* the damage you have from them. At least, that's how I've understood what I've read so far on the subject.


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## ChristSavesAll (Mar 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Yes, support for detox pathways- the manners in which your body actually gets rid of toxins ie your kidneys and urinary tract.
If there isn't enough of the vitamins to keep these organs functioning optimally (there's more to it than just your kidneys and urinary tract but I haven't been able to do as much research on the particulars of detoxing as I'd like), then much of the toxins mobilized through an iodine increase will actually resettle into other organs and tissues *increasing* the damage you have from them. At least, that's how I've understood what I've read so far on the subject.

I will have to find the link but iodine should be in every cell of your body, unfortunately the heavy metals previously listed take the place of iodine in your body. Sooo when you do supplement iodine it is constantly pushing the bad out and replacing it with the good (iodine). There is no resettling, its constantly moving out.

here is a link about bromide


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
I will have to find the link but iodine should be in every cell of your body, unfortunately the heavy metals previously listed take the place of iodine in your body. Sooo when you do supplement iodine it is constantly pushing the bad out and replacing it with the good (iodine). There is no resettling, its constantly moving out.

here is a link about bromide

The problem is that your major organs store and require more than just iodine. They are storage centers for multiple vitamins and minerals and, if you don't have enough of the other vitamins and minerals which those organs store and require, you *will* have resettlement of the toxins into the storage centers of the other vitamins and minerals. So making certain that you know the "path" a toxin follows to leave the body is absolutely essential in order to prevent that resettlement. It's not as simple as "I'm only clearing out the iodine receptors so if I just keep pushing iodine, it's all good."


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Also, some Bach Flower remedies are your friend.









Adding Natural Calm will help significantly. http://www.calmnatural.com/product/18340500004

As well as some Bach Flower remedies. They are all natural, safe remedies for stress, upset, fear, depression, etc. You can select those that best suit based upon reading about each one or taking the quiz at the remedy finder (first link). You can choose up to 5 or so and mix a few drops of each in water and sip as needed, or take straight in the midst of a stressful situation.

Guaranteed to help.







:

http://www.ainsworths.com/remedy/default.aspx

http://www.bachcentre.com/centre/remedies.htm

http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm

I love Rescue Remedy.









The big thing is to increase your health status. Increase consumption of CLO, CO, magnesium, zinc, vitamins A, B, C, D, E, bone broths, whole food probiotics: yogurt, kefir, kombucha, fermented vegetables.

Epsom salt baths will help with stress!

You have a busy and challenging month ahead.

Pat

Are all these safe while breastfeeding? I'm going to see if the Rescue Remedy is available locally.

ETA - If I get the Natural Calm, what dosage?

Is there anything to help with all this weight I have gained?


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
The problem is that your major organs store and require more than just iodine. They are storage centers for multiple vitamins and minerals and, if you don't have enough of the other vitamins and minerals which those organs store and require, you *will* have resettlement of the toxins into the storage centers of the other vitamins and minerals. So making certain that you know the "path" a toxin follows to leave the body is absolutely essential in order to prevent that resettlement. It's not as simple as "I'm only clearing out the iodine receptors so if I just keep pushing iodine, it's all good."

When dd was a baby I read a lot on lead poisoning, and recall reading (it's been a while so I'm rusty) that if you detox lead or other heavy metals from your body, but are still exposed to those in the environment, that you may end up with more of a problem as there will be more openings for the metals to bond to your cells, unless you have sufficient iron in your system to fill those "spaces" when the lead is removed.

While I'm certainly a newbie at this iodine thing, I think it could be problematic to start any course of detox without being sure that the other micronutrients are in good supply, particularly those that will help block reabsorption of the toxins.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
You should be careful when taking kelp as it also has arsenic in it as well as bromin which inhibits the uptake of iodine... one can only "overdose" on iodine once your body has reached sufficiency (highly unlikely unless you've been supplementing 50mg a day for a year) and still take 20mg per day... Once sufficiency has been reached you should be consuming at LEAST 12.5mg of iodine a day. I have an Iodoral source for 33 bucks for a 180 pill bottle! Each pill has 12.5 mg in case you don't know about iodoral, so thats a 6 month supply!

Thanks for the kelp info. I assume Idoral is a safe/pure brand? I'd love if you would PM with your source, please.

My local friend with the Hypothyroid has used medical iodine (liquid that they use for surgeries), and told me that she paints it on her belly, it will absorb into the skin--almost totally disappear--she keeps reapplying it until her body stops absorbing it when it has what it needs.

Anybody else heard this?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmom* 
Thanks for the kelp info. I assume Idoral is a safe/pure brand? I'd love if you would PM with your source, please.

My local friend with the Hypothyroid has used medical iodine (liquid that they use for surgeries), and told me that she paints it on her belly, it will absorb into the skin--almost totally disappear--she keeps reapplying it until her body stops absorbing it when it has what it needs.

Anybody else heard this?

There are a fair few mamas here who do this. I believe the brand is Lugol's.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatWrangler* 
Are all these safe while breastfeeding? I'm going to see if the Rescue Remedy is available locally.

ETA - If I get the Natural Calm, what dosage?

Is there anything to help with all this weight I have gained?

The Bach Flower remedies are in a brandy alcohol foundation. So, if grapes are an issue, that might not work for you. Otherwise, I'm comfortable giving the 1-2 drops to a baby directly. And definitely comfortable with taking while pregnant and/or nursing. Most natural food stores or natural health markets will have RR. It is much cheaper online, about 1/2 the price, ime. We order any supplements from Vitacost. com. But, it takes a week.

The Natural Calm is a powder. Start with 1/2 tsp and gradually increase to bowel tolerance. The dose on the canister says 1-3 tsp. So, maybe 1/2 tsp twice a day for a few days, then increase to three times a day. Then 1 tsp twice a day...

If you get loose stools, slow down for the day and start back on the last dose. Take ongoing. I take it daily, as our food stores (and soils) are depleted of magnesium. If it makes you lazy or sleepy, consider taking it just at bedtime. And a smaller dose during the day.

I don't know about weight issues. Except that as our metabolism slows, we burn fewer calories. Also, if our foods are not nutritionally _dense_ or nutritional absorption is impaired (leaky gut), we consume more to get the nutrients we need. There is some new info about specific bacteria in the gut determining the ability of the body to adequately get nutrition from foods. The studies indicated that folks with xyz bacteria didn't have weight issues. But, folks without xyz bacteria did. (No, I don't know which bacteria.)

Pat


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

We need Panserbjørne to chime in about detox issues. My understanding is that as mercury is "released" from wherever it is stored in the body, some of it resettles in the other organs and brain, unless it *binds* with something to carry it out of the body.

My primitive understanding is that vit C, selenium, magnesium sulfate, zinc, Chlorella?, vit E, pascalite clay, glutathione, Zeolite bind and transport heavy metals which are "freely" released in the body.

I'm not doubting the benefits of adequate iodine intake. I'm just not clear on the *interconnected* relationship to what else is happening in the body. If ONE thing alone could "cure", we'd all be doing it. So, I imagine there are more "yes, buts" and "but, ifs" than just supplementing iodine.

It sounds like the iodine displaces and replaces the heavy metals (I've not read the links yet). But, WHAT HAPPENS to the released heavy metals is the concern. It doesn't all go through the kidneys and breastmilk. It seems to me, that the key would be adequate intake and stores of the other vitamins and mineral stores before releasing heavy metals. I believe that heavy metals are stored in our bones also, and perhaps displace calcium?? So, all of the minerals are interconnected.

I also believe that kelp food sources and supplements could be tested for arsenic.









Pat


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Okay, I just ordered RR and Natural Calm. I called our local natural store and they were alot higher. Especially on the NC.


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
I believe that heavy metals are stored in our bones also, and perhaps displace calcium??

Lead definitely does this, so it follows that other heavy metals would.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
I also believe that kelp food sources and supplements could be tested for arsenic.









Do you mean you think they already do that (makes sense that they should, right?) or they "could"?


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatWrangler* 
Okay, I just ordered RR and Natural Calm. I called our local natural store and they were alot higher. Especially on the NC.











Yes, I about had a heart attack when I went to buy Natural Calm locally!







It was like $14 for 8 oz, vs. $16 for 16 oz or something like that!

Pat


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmom* 
Lead definitely does this, so it follows that other heavy metals would.

Do you mean you think they already do that (makes sense that they should, right?) or they "could"?

Ah, yes, lead. I remember that now.

I don't know, but probably some already do. And probably most don't. If you find out, I'd love to know.

Pat


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
We need Panserbjørne to chime in about detox issues. My understanding is that as mercury is "released" from wherever it is stored in the body, some of it resettles in the other organs and brain, unless it *binds* with something to carry it out of the body.

My primitive understanding is that vit C, selenium, magnesium sulfate, zinc, Chlorella?, vit E, pascalite clay, glutathione, Zeolite bind and transport heavy metals which are "freely" released in the body.

I'm not doubting the benefits of adequate iodine intake. I'm just not clear on the *interconnected* relationship to what else is happening in the body. If ONE thing alone could "cure", we'd all be doing it. So, I imagine there are more "yes, buts" and "but, ifs" than just supplementing iodine.

It sounds like the iodine displaces and replaces the heavy metals (I've not read the links yet). But, WHAT HAPPENS to the released heavy metals is the concern. It doesn't all go through the kidneys and breastmilk. It seems to me, that the key would be adequate intake and stores of the other vitamins and mineral stores before releasing heavy metals. I believe that heavy metals are stored in our bones also, and perhaps displace calcium?? So, all of the minerals are interconnected.

I also believe that kelp food sources and supplements could be tested for arsenic.









Pat

Thank you, Pat. As always, you said things much more clearly than I could. This is exactly what I was talking about and trying to get across.
In addition to the binding issue is the fact that there's only so much in the way of toxins which can be excreted at a time, so support of the pathways to *increase* this potential (to make it as high as possible) is paramount or you end up with a great deal of toxic chemicals floating about your body, finding new places to land and causing more damage.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Ah, yes, lead. I remember that now.

I don't know, but probably some already do. And probably most don't. If you find out, I'd love to know.

Pat

Most don't. I haven't found one which does or I'd be taking it. My ND hasn't found one either. He suggested going to the place they harvest it (which isn't far from here) and gathering some myself which I could then dry and powder for my own use.


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## ChristSavesAll (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm not claiming to know everything in regards to detoxing, just telling what I do know about iodine, the importance and the benefits of it.

Here is a link regarding Optimox and their studies on patients using iodine or orthoiodosupplementation. They don't seem to use anything else like you suggest for the toxins to bind to before their release, only mention of vit c... I still havent read it all yet though since I got a teething munchkin at the moment.

My iodoral source is here, but she doesnt seem to have any for sale at the moment... here is another source for the same price with free shipping.


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## bamsmom (Nov 9, 2007)

hi there, mamas!
i've been lurking around this thread for a few days trying to get a little more info before i went to see my hcp about a lump on my thyroid. i saw him today and he wasn't overly helpful...didn't give me a whole lot of info and i don't know what tests he ordered (when i asked, he told me it was "just a thyroid function test")...is that the tsh test? they drew 1 vial of blood for which i did not fast for. i'm scheduled for an ultrasound of my thyroid next wednesday, and after that he said i'd probably have to have a biopsy of the nodule. he only spent about 5 min with me, and i could tell he was just going through the motions (he actually told me he was seeing a flow chart in his head of proper procedure)...i'd love to find a new hcp...anybody know of one in central illinois?

i haven't read the entire thread yet (i have to do most of my computer time while the lil guy's asleep because he LOVES computers!), so i guess i'll do some more reading after he goes to sleep tonight. and i'll check out in "finding your tribe" forum for a new doc. just wanted to say hello and i'll probably be having lots of questions for you mamas in the coming weeks! TIA!


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

I am 38, I lost about 35 lbs in about 6 months (from last April to Sept). I was dieting until about June, reached my goal of 135 lbs (lost about 20), and then I continued to lose until I hit 123. In November I started eating a "traditional diet" and within a month I noticed some changes: no more achy fingers in the morning, no more numbness in the night (both of these I attributed to my laying on one side and bfeeding), no dizzy spells, no more cramps in my feet and much nicer skin (had a mild bit of rosacea which seems to have disappeared).
I also stopped losing weight, I evened out at about 125.

I recently went in for some routine bloodwork and my doc said I have hypothyroidism! I am shocked! He didn't give me lots of details, but my cholesterol was supposedly elevated, although my total chol to HDL is still at a good ratio of 3.7 260/70.
Anyway, I don't feel tired, I don't have problems with weight gain, I'm not depressed, basically I don't have the "classic" symptoms that one hears about. But now that I'm looking at more people's stories online I'm seeing some mention the cramps and achiness and dizziness. So I'm wondering if I had this for awhile but didn't pay attention to it. It is common I think for people to have minor health issues and to ignore them.

So, I guess my point in posting, for those who have managed to hang on this long, is to ask a few questions:
Have any of you had such mild symptoms?

This is all new to me, I'm overwhelmed and I'm nervous about it, I thought I was in great health from changing my diet and now I find I have this. But I also want to approach this in a very holistic and cautious manner. My doc says I should just start with a low-dose of the synthetic hormone and then we'll test in 6 weeks, if it works then I have it (and I'll need to keep taking the hormones for the rest of my life), if not, then we'll look for other causes. I'm taking issue with this approach. Are there some good comprehensive websites where I can discuss with others and get good relevant information?

I want to look at the cause of this. It seems to me that there may be a genetic predisposition (my mother has it) but that the environment is what triggers the thyroid to under-perform. I want to find out what that is. Any ideas on how to do this?

I am interested in this discussion of toxins leaving the body. I believe that when I lost the weight my body must have been releasing the mercury stored in my fat since I was a child (from the amalgam fillings). I am still bfeeding and I believe this also caused my dd to get cavities (and god knows what else). At Dr. Mercola's office they said she had mercury in her pituitary and her liver (ahhhh!). So I'm wondering if this is somehow related. Any thoughts on this?

Sorry for the long post! Any input is welcome.


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

I know _of_ people who have had mild symptoms. My FIL and some women in my thyroid group didn't gain weight, which must be nice.


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## Missa (Mar 19, 2008)

I'll be getting my thyroid tested next week and I'd like to know what specific tests to ask for? I found a doctor near me on the Armour website, I wanted to go to someone who would consider a more natural treatment if needed.

My symptoms are 15 pound weight gain in the last 2 years, I've managed to stop it in it's tracks with lots of exercise and eating better. I've lost 3 pounds (but I've lost the same three pounds like 3 or 4 times in the last 6 months







)

A case of the "blahs", I don't feel depressed. I just don't feel like myself.

I'm cold all the time, I wear lots of layers and use 3 blankets in bed.

I have trouble falling asleep and staying asleep. Then I just can't seem to get out of bed in the morning. It's become a ritual for my three kids to lay in bed with me in the mornings until I feel like I can get up and make breakfast.









Not alot of energy at all. It's really tough for me to keep up with our home, I'm having trouble keeping it clean and relatively clutter free.

Thanks, any advice greatly appreciated.

Missa


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## FrannieP (Sep 11, 2007)

Missa wrote:

Quote:

I'll be getting my thyroid tested next week and I'd like to know what specific tests to ask for?
Labs To Request From Your Doctor here.

Does sound like a list of hypo symptoms.
Hopefully you will get some relief soon!

Hang in there.
Frannie


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## FrannieP (Sep 11, 2007)

Jimibell:

Quote:

I recently went in for some routine bloodwork and my doc said I have hypothyroidism!
Do you know what labs your doc used to make this diagnosis?
I urge you to get copies of your lab work so you can have baselines to use in deciding what if any treatment protocol you will follow.

I was in a similar situation myself. MD put me on synthroid due to elevated TSH though I had no hypo symptoms. My body had a difficult time converting the T4 to T3 which eventually tanked my adrenals. After a lot of further testing (which I had to plead for) I learned I have Hashi's. Synthroid was NOT a good option for me - though it may be for some. I've faired far better treating it as an autoimmune condition (which Hashi's is) than as hypothyroid.

Frannie


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jimibell* 
But I also want to approach this in a very holistic and cautious manner. My doc says I should just start with a low-dose of the synthetic hormone and then we'll test in 6 weeks, if it works then I have it (and I'll need to keep taking the hormones for the rest of my life), if not, then we'll look for other causes. I'm taking issue with this approach. Are there some good comprehensive websites where I can discuss with others and get good relevant information?


This post has more info about T3 and T4 testing and meds. You can start drugs and decide to stop later, that's not a problem. You could start, then research and decide if you want to keep treating conventionally, treat partly conventional and partly alternative, or go completely alternative, but you definitely don't need to decide right away. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...6&postcount=94

Here is "Recommended Labwork": http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...ended-labwork/

Mistakes Patients Make: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...patients-make/

This post is about the nutritional issues and thyroid function.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...9&postcount=68
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=285
This is a list of supplements and how they function in the body. http://ithyroid.com/supplement_list.htm

I always recommend whole foods for nutritional support. Check the site "World's Healthiest Foods". It lists each of those nutrients and the foods most dense with that nutrient. http://www.whfoods.com/nutrientstoc.php Also, elimination of specific foods: cabbage, peaches, radishes, soy, peanuts, spinach and rutabagas which can interfere with thyroid hormone production.

Most of our diets are depleted in magnesium. We use Natural Calm. It is most bio-available. You want magnesium citrate. We also supplement with CLO for Vit A and Omega 3, zinc, selenium and iodine and B-vitamins, vit C, iron. I eat my two Brazil nuts (maximum, cause more can be too much selenium). And other food sources for the nutrients. Here is a list of nutrients to be sure are adequate in your diet: http://webhome.idirect.com/~wolfnowl/thyroid13.htm Hormones are also influenced greatly by the types of fats you eat. You need healthy saturated fats (avocado and coconut), and essential fatty acids: cod liver oil.

Iodine supplementation is another avenue to research: http://www.iodine4health.com/disease/disease.htm Here is more info about this important nutrient: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=272 Kelp is the seaweed highest in iodine and for example, you would need approx. 1 teaspoon a day of www.seaveg.com kelp to get 12.5 mg. Iodized salt is not a good source. Real sea salt is good but not sufficient. Selenium in conjunction is important.

Adrenal fatigue is also interconnected with stress, cortisol exhaustion, and thyroid levels. Which are all impacted by hormonal changes of pregnancy and nursing. Bottom line, I'd bet it is all 'pregnancy induced hypothyroid'.

I'd also strongly recommend seeing a classical homeopath. Homeopathy can help to address hormonal balance.

Best wishes, Pat


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## FrannieP (Sep 11, 2007)

Great post Pat!
Thanks for the compilation of info.








Frannie


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## avent (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
Jimibell:
I was in a similar situation myself. MD put me on synthroid due to elevated TSH though I had no hypo symptoms. My body had a difficult time converting the T4 to T3 which eventually tanked my adrenals.

The conversion requires Selenium. I was having the same problem until I added 3 brazil nuts/day to my diet. I couldn't believe how much difference it made. Don't know if that helps...


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Jimibell, I had lots of symptoms and bloodwork that was very slow to show the problem, and while I was waiting I went alternative. Interesting site for reading about vitamins and minerals and thyroid function is ithyroid.com. It also has pages on different underlying causes of hypo- (and hyper-) thyroidism--I mean, what causes your vitamins and minerals to get so out-of-whack. But with no/very few/mild symptoms, supplementing lots may not be the right approach to you. I am at now the point (3yrs after abruptly getting lots of symptoms, turns out it was mercury-related for me, so I've been working on that) I am starting to maybe feel a bit cold again (have been basically asymptomatic, maybe very subtle stuff, for about 1.5yrs now), I think it may be mainly iodine related at this point (still supp-ing other vits/mins but I think this is the one I am most borderline on). I'm going to try some Iodoral--did it 2 years ago for a while, relieved some but definitely not all of my symptoms (I later learned that iodine can mobilize halogens and mercury, so abruptly starting the Iodoral while nursing was probably not the best move I could've made).

Missa--be sure to get copies of bloodwork, the reference ranges are wider than the range in which most people feel healthy. Many of us with thyroid problems also have adrenal problems, and adrenal fatigue isn't usually the type of thing regular doctors recognize or treat (they may do a blood cortisol test that will only identify severely, severely ill people). You could read The Adrenal Thread for ideas, and if need-be order a saliva test (4x/day kind) to get concrete info on how your adrenals are and go from there.


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## Missa (Mar 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
Missa wrote:

Labs To Request From Your Doctor here.

Does sound like a list of hypo symptoms.
Hopefully you will get some relief soon!

Hang in there.
Frannie

Thanks, I made a list to bring with me.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jimibell* 
I am interested in this discussion of toxins leaving the body. I believe that when I lost the weight my body must have been releasing the mercury stored in my fat since I was a child (from the amalgam fillings). I am still bfeeding and I believe this also caused my dd to get cavities (and god knows what else). At Dr. Mercola's office they said she had mercury in her pituitary and her liver (ahhhh!). So I'm wondering if this is somehow related. Any thoughts on this?

Based on my understanding of the issue, in general when we lose weight, toxins stored in our fat are allowed to circulate and some end up in our milk. Different people hold onto mercury and other heavy metals in different ways--my kids got a lot more bad stuff (in the general sense, since I think the problem detoxifying mercury had a cascade effect on my detoxification capacity overall) than most kids whose moms had 5 fillings. If we'd gotten cavities (I considered it not unlikely given my health problems and our nutrient deficiencies), I would've seen it still first as an expression of nutrition, but a) the kids started out low in many things (hypothyroid people can't convert beta-carotene to A, for example), plus all the nutrient deficiencies that were causing my hypo (zinc's another biggie, it takes some planning to get a good amount just through diet, separate from making up long-term deficiencies) and b) I've found that the kids each need more of a couple nutrients than most people (magnesium for my daughter and likely my husband, K for my son and me)--not sure if there are more yet to be discovered. So considering individual nutrient needs, especially as they may relate to your health and your family history, may yield interesting stuff.


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Wow, thank you for the responses!

I met a massage therapist today in our school community and he said that he specializes in thyroid and it could be a "mechanical" issue.

I also was thinking about the mercury and thinking about my "symptoms" and I was thinking I should check for mercury, just not sure how to do this.

I wish I had a healthcare provider, whom I could TRUST and who could help me wade through all of this. There is so much to know. But I suppose the key right now is to move slowly.

For now, I will meet with my doc, get the results and tell him I want to explore the root cause before medicating. Then I will meet with the massage therapist, see what he says (I do recall at my physical my doc commented that my thyroid was swollen). And maybe get testing to see if there is mercury involved. And of course, keep reading. And most importantly, keep eating well (which I would do anyway). I suspect that my diet has probably helped with the thyroid (or whatever it is) issue.
I also know a homeopathic doc nearby, she is supposed to be great.

I do consume a good amount of coconut, take CLO daily, eat lots of avocado, use only sea salt, eat pasture-raised meat and raw dairy, etc. I basically follow a "traditional foods" diet pretty strictly. I think that is why I stopped having the stiff fingers and numbness in the morning.

I will try the brazil nuts. What is Natural Calm and where do you get it?

I wonder if I hadn't gotten this test if I would have started getting more symptoms as time progressed. My doc said I would have, so I'm glad I just happened to take the test and I've found out early.

It seems the thryroid thing is sooo complicated!


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

I'm looking at some of the home tests saliva/simple blood tests and am in disbelief that they can't do them for NY residents. Grrrr.... this state is wacko.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jimibell* 
I also was thinking about the mercury and thinking about my "symptoms" and I was thinking I should check for mercury, just not sure how to do this.

I used the Hair Elements Test (not the Toxic Hair Profile) from Doctor's Data (ordered through Direct Lab Services), and Andy Cutler's interpretation for my daughter. Bummer is that nursing women tend to fail one of the mercury toxicity criteria more often than they should (nursing women who aren't mercury toxic look like they are), you could test your little one instead. Don't know how reliable that is, but my daughter was a good indicator for us.

I wonder if I hadn't gotten this test if I would have started getting more symptoms as time progressed. My doc said I would have, so I'm glad I just happened to take the test and I've found out early.

Probably yes. Eating better is always a good idea, wish I'd twigged to that before my health tanked.









It seems the thryroid thing is sooo complicated!

.


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FrannieP* 
Jimibell:

Do you know what labs your doc used to make this diagnosis?
I urge you to get copies of your lab work so you can have baselines to use in deciding what if any treatment protocol you will follow.

I was in a similar situation myself. MD put me on synthroid due to elevated TSH though I had no hypo symptoms. My body had a difficult time converting the T4 to T3 which eventually tanked my adrenals. After a lot of further testing (which I had to plead for) I learned I have Hashi's. Synthroid was NOT a good option for me - though it may be for some. I've faired far better treating it as an autoimmune condition (which Hashi's is) than as hypothyroid.

Frannie

how do you treat for Hashi's?

I got my bloodwork. I was shocked at how high the tsh was. Is this normal abnormality?

1st test 1/5: TSH-145.7

2nd test 1/22: TSH-68.54
Free T3: 2.21
Free T4:<0.40

He said my cholesterol was high due to the mal-function of the thyroid

Total cho: 266
TriG: 57
HDL: 81
LDL: 172
VLDL: 11
Cho/HDL: 3.3

I've read that in determining cholesterol rate to risk for disease, the CHO/HDL ratio is the important factor (range is 2.5-6.0). So I'm not concerned about this. But I wonder if others have had similar high cho rates. Just curious.

Does anyone out there treat without using hormones? And if the problem is caused by mercury or nutritional deficiency do you get to go off the hormones ever?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jimibell* 
how do you treat for Hashi's?

I got my bloodwork. I was shocked at how high the tsh was. Is this normal abnormality?

1st test 1/5: TSH-145.7

2nd test 1/22: TSH-68.54
Free T3: 2.21
Free T4:<0.40

He said my cholesterol was high due to the mal-function of the thyroid

Total cho: 266
TriG: 57
HDL: 81
LDL: 172
VLDL: 11
Cho/HDL: 3.3

I've read that in determining cholesterol rate to risk for disease, the CHO/HDL ratio is the important factor (range is 2.5-6.0). So I'm not concerned about this. But I wonder if others have had similar high cho rates. Just curious.

Does anyone out there treat without using hormones? And if the problem is caused by mercury or nutritional deficiency do you get to go off the hormones ever?

Honestly, your TSH is about where mine was last (not this past, the one before) November when I found out. I find it hard to believe you had no symptoms, as I felt like the walking dead. My hair was falling out in clumps, I was sleeping about 18 hours a day (sometimes more), my skin was so incredibly dry, my voice was hoarse (I sounded like a man)...
I think the best course of action when your thyroid is that obviously underfunctioning is to at least try to get your TSH up with the hormones first and then concentrate on strengthening your thyroid and adrenals. When your numbers start looking like yours, it's really not the time to play around with nutritional approaches- but that's my opinion.
I can't tell you anything about the cholesterol. My doctors have never run mine.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

And see, I would go more by symptoms than Jacqueline, maybe because my bloodwork was just barely off when _I_ felt like the walking dead. With very few symptoms, I'd probably feel even better about just doing the nutrition approach (but to be fair, I had lots of symptoms and felt miserable and still felt better doing the nutrition thing than the prescription I got). I never took thyroid replacement supps, by the time my bloodwork finally showed enough of an up-trend (along with lots of symptoms) to show a problem to the doctor, I'd decided that the nutritional approach was better anyway. Very satisfying to get the Synthroid prescription, but I never filled it.

For me, the biggies: vitamins and minerals, and then figuring out why my vitamins and minerals got so far off. But each of us have such a unique journey in getting here that it's hard to figure out except on our own or with the help of a great healthcare provider.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
And see, I would go more by symptoms than Jacqueline, maybe because my bloodwork was just barely off when _I_ felt like the walking dead. With very few symptoms, I'd probably feel even better about just doing the nutrition approach (but to be fair, I had lots of symptoms and felt miserable and still felt better doing the nutrition thing than the prescription I got). I never took thyroid replacement supps, by the time my bloodwork finally showed enough of an up-trend (along with lots of symptoms) to show a problem to the doctor, I'd decided that the nutritional approach was better anyway. Very satisfying to get the Synthroid prescription, but I never filled it.

For me, the biggies: vitamins and minerals, and then figuring out why my vitamins and minerals got so far off. But each of us have such a unique journey in getting here that it's hard to figure out except on our own or with the help of a great healthcare provider.

I knew you'd show up.








My concern is that with such elevated numbers, there's an increased risk of heart problems from the research I've done. So to me, the priority is to get the numbers down to decrease the stress on the heart- not just for the numbers' sake or symptoms' sake.
I suppose that both could be done simultaneously, although that might skew exactly which was having a good response.
I do completely agree with Tanya though that getting your personal nutrition figured out is incredibly key to this- whether it's done without taking hormones, while taking hormones or after getting your levels stabilized. And I do think that doing so while you're feeling okay would make it MUCH easier.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

I'd think most people with a TSH like that would have lots of symptoms though, indicating a lot of things are going wrong with their bodies. So with really high TSH's, in general I wouldn't be surprised that other things are going wrong, even serious things like heart disease, but with so few symptoms, it seems likely different (though definitely worth addressing in some manner). With a TSH like that, but quite few symptoms, I'd think there's more likely to be one bigger problem and other stuff that should be optimized, but it's not like me--I've been on high-dose vit/min supps for a long time now, and just recently I ran out of my mineral supp (that has my iodine) and within a couple weeks, I think I started getting cold, so I really wasn't doing great making up my deficit (though mostly I've been focused on getting a reasonable amt and chelating, and esp with the iodine, I haven't been taking as much as I probably should).

I have heard that high cholesterol tends to go with hypo, it didn't for me, and somehow that was interrelated to how messed up my adrenals were (adrenal hormones, cholesterol, vitD, progesterone, all are chemically related in the body, I look to be low across the board).


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Heck, I just thought of a good anti-argument to myself. With TSHs _that_ high when hypo is first diagnosed (I haven't actually seen the articles Jacqueline has, so I could be making bad assumptions), I would hope these people also didn't have significant symptoms (if they'd been missed for decades and the people felt like the walking dead, how horrible for them! and that would imply lots of bad doctor-work) then maybe the one thing that's going wrong is more likely to cause heart problems than the many things I had going wrong. I could argue this either way.







Helpful, eh?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Sometimes they do have significant symptoms and don't realize it. My (new) doctor suspects that my hypothyroid state was in place for at least 10 years before it was diagnosed. I think my first complaint was dry skin (but it's been so long, I don't know anymore). Also, some of the articles I've read have pointed a finger at delusions possibly pointing to a thyroid problem- including auditory and visual hallucinations. More often than not, this is diagnosed as a *mental* health problem rather than a physical one.
Additionally, if there are also adrenal issues, the symptoms of thyroid problems can be masked in a way. One of the reasons mine went undiagnosed for so long (I think) is that anytime I presented with shortness of breath and/or tiredness, it was assumed to be from my "asthma" and my corticosteroids were increased. Corticosteroids, as you may or may not know, allow the body to better utilize the thyroid hormones which *are* available.
So there are myriad ways for it to go undiagnosed for a long time, especially if it's a slow and gradual decline- which is my concern when I see numbers like that.
Of course, one could argue that a sudden change in the hormone levels (such as would take place from hormone replacement) could put stress on the heart as well.









ETA: I would gladly post the articles I've seen, if I could find them again. When I found out I had hypothyroidism, I did a full 3 months of research and had bookmarks out the yin-yang. However, we've since replaced our computer, and I've had my bookmarks deleted on me a good 6 times.







:
I searched more than just "hypothyroidism" during that time, things which are related to the condition in various forms, but always looking for information relating to hypothyroidism.
One of these days, I intend to re-do my research, if only so that I can make a file for sharing the articles with others.
Jimibell, I do suggest that you look at stopthethyroidmadness.com, if you haven't already, for a list of hypothyroid symptoms. It is the most comprehensive list I have encountered.


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

thank you for the responses....
it's just so weird, because I feel fine! but since I was told by my doc that I have this I have been so nervous.
I have never had any significant health problems in my life. This is very new to me and it makes me so nervous.
When I look at all the symptoms on all the websites the only things I can see are: occasional numbness in my limbs at night, achy fingers in the morning and cramps in my feet-----all of which have virtually disappeared since I've started eating a traditional foods diet (in Nov, by Dec they were gone)
I don't feel cold or tired or lose hair or have trouble losing weight or have especially dry skin (my hands are sometimes dry but that's usually after working in the kitchen a lot and it is like 10 degrees out here). These seem to be the big symptoms I see people mention.

I slept only 6 hours last night (had to watch Craig Ferguson) and I was tired this morning but I took a nap with dd for about an hour and I'm full of energy now. I cleaned and cooked all morning and I have more to do now.....I don't feel lethargic or sleepy at all....
Every day I take walks with dd in the 12 degree weather and, yeah the wind is nippy but I'm fine for about 45 minutes outdoors.

Anyway, I have an appointment with a naturopath next Monday. I'm glad because now I'm totally freaked out! But I am not doing anything until I see her and get tested because I don't know what is causing this, if it's Hashi or adrenal or what. I spoke to my former Chiropractor today and he was shocked in the huge change in my TSH over the course of 2 weeks.

This is so surreal.

When you say heart problems are you talking like down the road or like tomorrow?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jimibell* 
\
When you say heart problems are you talking like down the road or like tomorrow?

That is the problem. I'd like to be able to say definitively "Down the road", but I have no idea how long this has actually been going on for you and, even then, I don't know how long it *takes* for it to cause problems.
I wasn't trying to scare you, just trying to get across the point that it *is* serious and giving reasons why *I* opted to treat it the way that I did.
I'm glad to hear you will be seeing a naturopath. If it is Hashi's, I recently learned that you shouldn't be treating with iodine *except* under the direct care of a doctor (this would include a naturopath in my books).
It's possible that, with your diet change (assuming that is the only thing which could've changed your TSH in those 2 weeks), a nutritional approach would work perfectly well. *I* am just incredibly cautious when I see such high TSH numbers.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Just to weigh in. Those numbers freaked me out. But, then I remember that numbers only measure a discrete part of a person's whole. That is precisely the disadvantage and inaccuarcy of Numbers. I go by how I feel. I have periods of being cold, hair loss, tiredness, weight gain, whatever, but I feel great. I trust that I am intending health and wellness, and I nourish myself and my family as I learn more holistic ways.

The most important "lesson" I have gained, as both a medical professional and as a mom, is to LISTEN to your body.

All is well.









Pat


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

I remembered that the article I had looked at pertained to subclinical hypothyroidism. So, I did a quick Google search and here's an article which is similar.

From that site:

Quote:

According to the American Thyroid Association press release, even a slightly elevated TSH level causes increased risk for congestive heart failure (CHF). Congestive heart failure results when the heart is incapable of supplying adequate blood to the organs. Symptoms and signs of CHF include fatigue, ankle swelling, and shortness of breath, and may eventually result in death
Some people will have no symptoms nor signs of CHF (my father and his father are examples). They just suddenly die of heart attacks.


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

the thing that I keep thinking is that there are entire websites dedicated to the problems with the testing like "stopthyroidmadness" but they all seem to be the opposite thing that I am talking about. Low numbers but horrible symptoms. So if the tests are wrong that way why can't they be "wrong" the other way......
I haven't seen any sites talking about what I'm experiencing. are there any?

I am going to see a massage therapist as well. He says that it could also be a "mechanical" problem.

I always try to listen to my body too but I feel like someone must feel when they find their husband cheating, like, "who is this person that I thought I knew and how could he do this to me".......I just came up with that, cool, that is exactly how I feel......weird


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

From this site:

Quote:

Usually, symptoms are milder when hypothyroidism develops gradually.


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## llnmaw (Nov 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
Oh honey you poor thing! Please tell me SOMEONE has told you about iodine?!! Get your levels tested!!!

You need iodoral, selenium, vit e, zinc, fish oil, and something for your adrenals like licorice root(only for 6 weeks max then switch to) siberian ginseng(two weeks on two weeks off I think it is).

Thank you for this!! I abandoned this thread.....felt so discouraged/overwhelmed but am taking up my 'cross', so to speak, again. I'm soooo tired of feeling sooooooo tired and not taking care of my family/self as I want/need to

I get so confused over the mineral/vit supplements to be honest. I worry that I'm going to take too much of something. I'll just come right out and admit it: for the most part if someone tells me take 'x' amount of 'this' for 'this amount of time' I'll just do it.







: I'm not so great at fishing out info and coming to my own conclusions. I think it is in part due to this terrible brain fog. I can't follow simple instructions on some days! I can listen to people speak and not one bit of it will stick or make any sense to me.

All that to say...how would I decide how much iodoral, selenium, vit e, zinc, fish oil, and licorice root would I take?









Off the mineral/supplement idea for a moment.

Opinions appreciated on my plan.

Getting my disturbingly large (in my opinion it is disturbing!) nodule and right side of my thyroid removed in 1 month. My nodule has grown in the last 8 months but not significantly according to the ENT(who specializes in thyroids) I am seeing. I said I thought there was a new growth on the left side. By ultrasound, indeed there is. Not sure the size of it but small compared to Jaba the Hut on my right side! ENT suggested that there is plenty of argument to remove the biggie with right side of the thyroid and in his opinion the only argument to leave it is to take it out when it has doubled in size and is more difficult to manage. I want it out, so I liked his thinking. He explained the surgical risks to me and I'm comfortable with them. I'm more uncomfortable knowing this thing keeps growing.

But now...

I walked away and thought about something. I'm certain there was NO nodule on the left side in June. So something new grew in 8 months...right? Shouldn't it just come out too? I mean really....why not just be done with it..right? Doesn't this new growth have the same likelihood of growing and needing to come out someday too? Am I better off with 1/2 a thyroid (although I have my doubts about how well it is working....or will continue to work) than none?

I'm inclined to ask for the whole thing to be removed and be done with it. I know it's ultimately a decision only I can make...but your thoughts?

And after the thyroid comes out, what are the chances that I'll FINALLY get someone to listen to me about some form of treatment for how I feel - despite my labs(ENT will apparently not follow me after surgery and I'll be back to old HCP or moving on)? What I mean to say is...with 1/2 my thyroid missing (or I guess potentially all of it) isn't it a given that I'd need some sort of replacement? I mean if I've got no thyroid it's pretty hard to have normal labs...right??! Right??!







If I can get my foggy head around vits/minerals (which would be my preferred route TBH...it's just so confusing!) would they be the same for a poorly functioning thyroid as for a non existent one?

You guys are a wealth of info..I wish my brain would process it!! I feel like I need to sit in front of one of you and have you hold my hand and explain it 10 times to me.

Someone should do a conference with handout filled with charts, graphs, a few audio visuals and one on one/groups sessions.....just dreaming a little.....









~L.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *llnmaw* 
...I get so confused over the mineral/vit supplements to be honest. .... I think it is in part due to this terrible brain fog. I can't follow simple instructions on some days! I can listen to people speak and not one bit of it will stick or make any sense to me.

The brain fog is definitely difficult to think through to find a solution. It took me a few weeks to read through Julia Ross's The Diet Cure to get me started on some supplements. Selenium, zinc, etc are okay, but Julia Ross outlines a plan for those with thyroid dysfunction including free amino acids plus minerals and vitamins. I had to make a chart for myself to follow it was a serious undertaking from being the fog. Once out from there I was able to do a little more digging.

Quote:

All that to say...how would I decide how much iodoral, selenium, vit e, zinc, fish oil, and licorice root would I take?








Iodine supplementation has different recommendations. I'm frankly unsure about it. I read if you shock your system with too much, it's just as bad for goiters (or nodule) growth as too little. My decision was to take a thyroid supplement with a balanced amount of iodine with other minerals I read about.

Licorice is good for adrenals, however, it is also estrogenic. The thyroid and adrenals are closely tied into the androgens, progesterone, testosterone and estrogen levels. How are those for you?

Frankly, it's too hard to think of that in the beginning. If you know you have adrenal fatigue, then go for the licorice. If you have an existing known imbalance of fem hormones, skip it for now.

Quote:

... I want it out, so I liked his thinking. He explained the surgical risks to me and I'm comfortable with them. I'm more uncomfortable knowing this thing keeps growing.
I have read about goiters shrinking on their own with iodine supplements. Get of the the fog and get reading is all I can say b/c only you can make that call. And no one can tell you to take X amount of iodine due to liability and not having a medical license. Unfortunately, you will not find a western MD to tell you either.

Quote:

...And after the thyroid comes out, what are the chances that I'll FINALLY get someone to listen to me about some form of treatment for how I feel - despite my labs...
The chances are you will still receive substandard care, never enough thyroid hormone and probably not the right type. You will need to find a doctor on the thyroid web listing, is it Stopthethyroidmaddness dot com or other.

Even good doctors don't want to prescribe Armour or Westhroid/ Naturthroid. And many get within normal range labs and never increase your dose until your feel well.

I have a doctor who will run some labs, not everyone I've asked for. I do what I can with what I can get. My insurance co-pay on my thyroid med is higher than ordering a 100 day supply from Europe. So, I do that and I get what I want and how much I want. I take my health into my own hands.

The information is over whelming. I was in the fog for a long time with lethargy. I highly suggest Julia Ross The Diet Cure. If I recommend one book for anyone wanting nutritional therapies it's that one. It is an indepth read, but I did it in a fog enough to get out and then did a re-read. In fact a MDC mama recommended it to me about 2 1/2 years ago.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Thanks for the book recommendation, Electra. I'll try to see if I can find it at the library. (I know it wasn't directed to me, but..







)

Anyway.... I was wondering, has anyone noticed a change in "brain fog" when being switched from NatureThroid to Armour? I got switched about 3 weeks ago since my pharmacy said they couldn't get NatureThroid in until March, and about a week ago I started noticing I was able to think more clearly and I started getting more organized again. I have a little more energy (though that may be partly me rebounding from me having severe morning sickness for 5 months) and feel a little more motivated too.

Is this "normal"? Is this why so many people/sites said "get Armour"?


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Anyway.... I was wondering, has anyone noticed a change in "brain fog" when being switched from NatureThroid to Armour? I got switched about 3 weeks ago since my pharmacy said they couldn't get NatureThroid in until March, and about a week ago I started noticing I was able to think more clearly and I started getting more organized again. I have a little more energy (though that may be partly me rebounding from me having severe morning sickness for 5 months) and feel a little more motivated too.

Is this "normal"? Is this why so many people/sites said "get Armour"?









Interesting. The pharmacy I use is out of Armour and saying Naturthroid and Westhroid are the same. I switched to Westhroid, I have not noticed a difference. It's only been a few days. I even had to do 2 weeks of Synthroid waiting for the Westhroid to come in, b/c the Armour was out and no one told me until I inquired where my order was. The mail order pharmacies are not perfect.

I have a friend on Armour who uses a local pharmacy and her's is out too. I don't know what she was switched too.

The explaination I was given was the Naturthroid and Westhroid were "allergen" free.

It was my understanding Armour is suggested b/c it contains T3 (Cytomel) in additon to T4 (your Synthroid). It also contains a few other natural thyroid hormones T2, T1 and maybe a few others in small amounts since it is from pig thyroid. The Naturthroid and Westhroid are supposedly the same. However I recall Naturthroid was synthetic T3 and T4 only -- maybe that is the difference.

For many the conversion of T4 to T3 does not happen and therefore adding the T3 component makes them feel better. That is the theory, but maybe it's more to do with the entire set of thyroid hormones and not just those 2. It makes sense if you lost your thyroid to radiation or goiter surgery.

Here are some tips - Iron binds with T4, so do not take iron with your thyroid meds. Calcium interfers with T4, so do not take Calcium with your meds either.

I know many take their multi-vitamin and Thyroid in the AM together. If your multi has iron you are basically zeroing out the bio-availalbe T4. And thus T4 can not convert into T3 and you feel like crap on meds or you keep upping the T4. 4 hours either side is the standard rule.

I end up taking pills all day long to avoid interactions and zeroing out things.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Synthroid was the worst for me, although that was probably because I was being undermedicated (doctor I had wouldn't raise it because my TSH was 4.9 or something equally ridiculous). For quite a while (until I got pregnant), I was taking selenium and zinc to help with T3 conversion also.
I don't take my thyroid pill with anything else. I haven't been on any other pills since I got pregnant (they all made me sick.. I was lucky to keep my thyroid pill down).
I still have my thyroid... Dx is Hashimoto's.
Maybe I'm just an anomaly?


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## Just My Opinion (Nov 26, 2008)

Subbing.

I have had hypo for some years now, very slight, with varying symtoms depending on how well I am taking care of myself (because for me, it definitely ties into adrenals and nutrition).

I finally have decided to take a tiny dose of Armour to begin with, despite being a vegetarian for several years. We are ttc #2 and I think that although I have made great strides in my hypo with nutrition and supplementation (TSH from 10 to 5.4 in a year), I am still having symptoms. Mild, but symptoms nonetheless. The biggest and most troubling, is trouble conceiving, athough there could be other contributing factors to that (PSOS I think).

Here is what I do nutritionally etc:

Severely limit soy
no flouride toothpaste, though I am sure I still get it from the water








ACV
good fats -- fat is good, fat is good!!
strong multi
strong B support
C in the form of Sodium Ascorbate
Selenium
Magnesium
Vitamin D from the sun - I live in the south and get a lot of sun
vitex (for the pcos issues)
iodized sea salt
severely lowering stress - affirmations/meditation/rescue remedy/valerian root (for the adrenal issues)
Try to stick to a low glycemic index ( diet that is lowish "good" carbs but not too crazy low)
whole foods in their purest form diet (mostly) try to do organic when possible financially
exercise - walking, biking, I try to do some yoga

So -- that is what has helped get the number down (up?) but I chose to take the armour after much meditation, prayer, and listening to my body.

Thanks for listening


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## Just My Opinion (Nov 26, 2008)

Oh, and one question:

I am going in for a full physical in about three weeks. My doctor (who is actually just a family doctor but is pretty cool) called in the Armour for me without me having to go in because we had discussed it a few months ago and he was on board with the natural route (but was willing to prescribe Armour if I chose). Anyway, I know what labs to ask for and not to take my Armour the morning of (as per STTM site recs) but are their any more labs I should request?

Thanks in advance!


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## EarthsSpiral (Nov 13, 2007)

Hi everyone! IDK if I'm having a thyroid problem or not, my doctor seems to not think so but I feel like CRAP! It has gotten a little better the last few months (my TSH has gone up!) but I am not on any type of medications or doing anything to alter my levels. Haven't been told to!







I have an apt with my OB, but not until April 1st, so I thought I'd check in here too.

After having my baby I felt GREAT! I got down to 168lbs, was exercising over an hour a day, everything was great. At 4mo postpartum I experienced an awful "crash". I developed high BP with pregnancy 2 and it has yet to go away (10mo pp)! My BP shot up, I had ZERO energy. I went to my GP and he switched my BP med... to a diuretic. It wiped out my milk supply.







: Meanwhile I awaited test results, which he said were normal but after doing more reading I think not!

First lab:
free t-4 .9
TSH .28

I was retested 4 months later. I do feel somewhat better but have gained all the weight back (190lbs) though it probably due to not having the energy to work out! Here are my levels now:

free t4 .98
TSH .8
free t3 3.2

Big jump in the TSH! No wonder I feel a little better.

Any advice or thoughts on this are welcome!!


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

EarthsSpiral, if you can get free-T3 and free-T4, those will shed more light on things. Those TSHs are quite low, and some people do seem to have shifts in thyroid hormones and free T3/T4 completely separate from TSH, I think more people have a bit of a shift upward in TSH at the same time--still within the normal range, but drifting up near 2 or beyond.

However, have you checked out the Adrenal Fatigue thread? My adrenals got worn down first, before my thyroid, and there's a lot of overlap in the symptoms. Although most people with AF have low blood pressure, some don't (my husband is one), I think for my husband because high BP runs in his family, we need to figure out what he needs, nutritionally, that's different than me (and most people) to keep his BP in a normal range. Right now we're thinking magnesium, but his BP hasn't actually been high (his adrenals are so fatigued you'd normally expect quite low BP) so we haven't really followed up much on that.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:

*Calcium Supplements*
Calcium supplements are among the top 25 over-the-counter products sold in the United States , and levothyroxine (Synthroid, Levothroid, Levoxyl, etc.), is among the top five brand-name drugs sold. More women than men have osteopenia or osteoporosis, and more women than men have hypothyroidism. For this reason, it would appear that women would be more likely to take calcium supplements along with their levothyroxine. This is a harmful combination because *calcium carbonate supplements can reduce the utilization of thyroid hormone, especially when a patient takes it in high doses and in the morning.* *11*

*Levothyroxine is best absorbed on an empty stomach, so it should be taken in the morning 1 hour prior to breakfast. To minimize the interaction between calcium carbonate and levothyroxine, separate the doses by at least 4 hours.* Taking 500 mg of calcium at lunch and dinner minimizes any impairment in drug effectiveness. 12

*High amounts of soy in the diet can also inhibit thyroid hormone synthesis, especially if the patient also has low iodine levels.* Advise patients who require thyroid medication and calcium supplementation to eat soy in small amounts and only at the evening meal. 11 Consuming large amounts of healthful brassica vegetables (broccoli, cauliflower and Brussels sprouts) can also reduce the utilization of thyroid hormone. 11

https://nurse-practitioners.advancew...&sid=2308&CP=2

Pat


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
https://nurse-practitioners.advancew...&sid=2308&CP=2

Pat

In regards to that link, but completely OT for this thread... My father was on warfarin and was taking CoQ10. I don't think his doctors ever told him not to...
Which leads me to wonder if maybe I do need more vitamin K...


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

I would like to point out, if you take Armour or other thyroid med containing T4 at intervals throughout the day - you have to use the hours recommended to separate doses of thyroid and doses of calcium and iron (Iron binds with T4).

I take an Armour 1/2 dose in the morning and then again while cooking dinner, it's roughly 12 hours apart that way. If I'm going to consume soy, calcium supplements or iron supplements I do it at lunch or in the middle of the night (was easier to do nursing LOL).

In is no wonder it takes so long to feel better! Those multivitamins kill the effectiveness of medications in some cases, such as thyroid T4. I am iron deficient and hypo, it took a long time to remember when to take which and often times on a bad morning I would have to choose iron or T4 today to start... Sometimes I'd start with iron b/c I knew that was the worse of my problems that day! Know thy body...


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
However, have you checked out the Adrenal Fatigue thread? My adrenals got worn down first, before my thyroid, and there's a lot of overlap in the symptoms. Although most people with AF have low blood pressure, some don't (my husband is one), I think for my husband because high BP runs in his family, we need to figure out what he needs, nutritionally, that's different than me (and most people) to keep his BP in a normal range. Right now we're thinking magnesium, but his BP hasn't actually been high (his adrenals are so fatigued you'd normally expect quite low BP) so we haven't really followed up much on that.









nutritionally there are some herbs to be taken for adrenal fatigue. in a man it would be easier to say yes to these somewhat estrogenic hers b/c in a woman you are dealing with adrenal fatigue and female hormones and sometimes a woman is estrogen dominant.

Licorice is topping the list for adrenal support. I can't for the life of me remember what book or site I was reading. I flip flop back and forth thinking whether or not my own adrenals are affected (the only test I could get a doc to do was a 24 hr urine for cortisol,







same doc said I was no hypo - I'm not classical hypo, but I am hypo when you read Free levels).

My point in replying was to say, go for some supplements for your man! Magnesium can't hurt - chelated is best.

Supplements taken with in a rotating basis, such as the schedule of a forgetful person actually can often times be better for the individual than daily. Daily therapy can be over kill for some, depends on the level of deficiency or just need of their body.


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## EarthsSpiral (Nov 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
EarthsSpiral, if you can get free-T3 and free-T4, those will shed more light on things. Those TSHs are quite low, and some people do seem to have shifts in thyroid hormones and free T3/T4 completely separate from TSH, I think more people have a bit of a shift upward in TSH at the same time--still within the normal range, but drifting up near 2 or beyond.

However, have you checked out the Adrenal Fatigue thread? My adrenals got worn down first, before my thyroid, and there's a lot of overlap in the symptoms. Although most people with AF have low blood pressure, some don't (my husband is one), I think for my husband because high BP runs in his family, we need to figure out what he needs, nutritionally, that's different than me (and most people) to keep his BP in a normal range. Right now we're thinking magnesium, but his BP hasn't actually been high (his adrenals are so fatigued you'd normally expect quite low BP) so we haven't really followed up much on that.









Sorry I edited my post, yes those were "free t"'s that were tested not just plain t3 and t4 (though I don't know the difference







). I will be sure to check in on the adrenal thread, I am positive my OBGYN that I am seeing on the 1st of April will test for many for things than my GP was willing to. We have a much better relationship.







:


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Thanks for the info on calcium. I'm taking Armour and I never knew this -- I take calcium AND Armour in the morning, and my nurse practitioner knows this and never mentioned anything.









About the licorice -- anyone have any good reliable links to more info? I've suffered from AF in the past and think I'm "susceptible" to it, if that's possible. I'm taking Ashgawanda (sp?) but I'm interested in whatever will help.


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## Missa (Mar 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Thanks for the info on calcium. I'm taking Armour and I never knew this -- I take calcium AND Armour in the morning, and my nurse practitioner knows this and never mentioned anything.









About the licorice -- anyone have any good reliable links to more info? I've suffered from AF in the past and think I'm "susceptible" to it, if that's possible. I'm taking Ashgawanda (sp?) but I'm interested in whatever will help.


Do you take your Armour sublingually? If you do that it shouldn't matter what you take with it, the Armour goes straight into your blood system and doesn't compete with other vitamins and minerals in your stomach.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama* 
Thanks for the info on calcium. I'm taking Armour and I never knew this -- I take calcium AND Armour in the morning, and my nurse practitioner knows this and never mentioned anything.









About the licorice -- anyone have any good reliable links to more info? I've suffered from AF in the past and think I'm "susceptible" to it, if that's possible. I'm taking Ashgawanda (sp?) but I'm interested in whatever will help.

Share the information with her.









I'm not a licorice gal. I'm concerned that when we supplement a steroid, our adrenals think they need to "produce less" and are more subject to inadequate cortisol production, when needed. This is the case with medicinal steroid supplementation. So, I'd assume it is similar with "natural" supplementation.
http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_licorice.htm

However, this indicates that "Licorice acts as an adrenal stimulant and antacid. It contains glycyrrhizin, a compound that raises the body's levels of the adrenal hormone cortisol. This occurs because licorice slows the breakdown of cortisol produced by the body. "
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...4/ai_111271908

Although, we don't want to be taking antacids. <don't ask to hear the rant about that>

Human studies have also found that licorice supplements may act as a "phytoestrogen" in the body, meaning licorice may have effects like that of estrogen.
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/licorice-000262.htm
http://www.geocities.com/chadrx/licorice.html

Pat


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

I am subbing. I have made it through both massive thyroid threads, and feel more informed about this subject than I ever wanted to be. I think that my thyroid is not functioning properly, based on the way I feel. I don't have a doctor, so haven't had any testing done. Is it unwise to try to just supplement without any testing? I have no idea where to even begin with a doctor.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gardenmommy* 
I am subbing. I have made it through both massive thyroid threads, and feel more informed about this subject than I ever wanted to be. I think that my thyroid is not functioning properly, based on the way I feel. I don't have a doctor, so haven't had any testing done. Is it unwise to try to just supplement without any testing? I have no idea where to even begin with a doctor.

I supplemented with vits/mins because my bloodwork was so slow going out of range compared to how I felt (like a truck had run me down). I felt better taking supps, but the downsides (since it's all about weighing individual risk and benefit): a) I didn't realize I had adrenal fatigue and some people have their adrenals crash if they supp for their thyroid and not support their adrenals (which you can do by yourself, or a chiro or naturopath or acupuncturist or like that could help), b) I supp'd high-dose iodine while nursing which probably mobilized some heavy metals to my nurseling (if I needed to do it, should've gone slower and worked on my detox pathways at the same time) and c) I didn't have a solid idea of what the underlying cause of my hypo (and AF). So it was ultimately a band-aid, but it got me functional and then I could keep working toward answers.


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

This is a pretty new thing for me. I think it probably started when I was vegetarian and pregnant with #3. I made some major diet changes at that point, which helped tremendously. I think I am at the point where I haven't had enough sleep, I have been nursing or pregnant (or both) for so long that my body is just not able to recover properly. I eat really well, I grew up eating really well, so did my mom and grandma (on both sides), so I think it is a matter of replenishing my stores. I don't think I am dealing with a generational depletion, IYSWIM.

I am going to spend the next week or so just really studying this matter, and then will probably start a supplement regimen. Although, the thought of wading through all the scientific stuff is already giving me a headache!


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Just My Opinion* 
Anyway, I know what labs to ask for and not to take my Armour the morning of (as per STTM site recs) but are their any more labs I should request?

OH darn it! I just had my physical and took my Armour this morning as usual before they took blood for tests. In addition I was fasting so I expect uptake to be higher than normal.

How much will this screw up the results? I specifically asked and the receptionist told me to take it as usual. sigh...


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Okay, it's not off topic but might be considered a little "out there".
I was talking to a friend the other day and chakras came up. I mentioned that I thought my throat chakra might be blocked- she said that was common in people with thyroid problems.
So, today I brought it up with my ND. He said "yes, that is pretty common in people with thyroid problems... I usually recommend that my patients with thyroid problems start singing."
Just wondering if anyone else had ever heard of this?


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## LessTraveledBy (Feb 9, 2005)

New here and thought you might know the answer this this...

Thyroid problems sometimes have infertility as a symptom. What type of infertility does it cause? (As in no period or everything seems to work but can't get pregnant, etc.?)

I am suspecting I am hypo and I am wondering if my secondary infertility is linked to this. However, in my case I have regular cycles with ovulation but can't get pregnant... Does this sound like a possibility or would the hypo cause something more obvious?


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## mommylamb (May 3, 2008)

I havn't waded my way through this thread yet or the other for that matter. It's late and I should get to bed but I wanted to sub to this first.I'm a part time teacher (ie, they can pay me like crap and give me no insurance) and last week at school they had a Health Fair. So I shelled out the $$ to go. Well today I got my results back and my TSH is 5.05. I don't have insurance, and only have 5 more weeks of teaching. Then I have to figure out what to do to get by this summer. I just went through an unexpected divorce so I'm my sole income. I do live with my parents so rent/house payments aren't an issue but it's still going to be tough.* Any what that long story was for, I'm not sure I can afford to do to the Dr and/or pay for the prescriptions.Help!


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

I haven't had a chance to go through all of the pages of all of the Thyroid threads, but I am curious about Armour Thyroid. Can you get it in Canada? Does your doctor prescribe it, or can your naturopath prescribe it? I am on a teeny dose of Eltroxin (Synthroid) is there an equivalent doseage to .25 mcg in the Armour Thyroid units?

Also, I have just started taking my pills a few days ago. I know that they are supposed to be slow to work, but I was wondering what your experiences have been with them - how soon did you notice not gaining weight? Did you find that your hair ever grew back?


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Okay, it's not off topic but might be considered a little "out there".
I was talking to a friend the other day and chakras came up. I mentioned that I thought my throat chakra might be blocked- she said that was common in people with thyroid problems.
So, today I brought it up with my ND. He said "yes, that is pretty common in people with thyroid problems... I usually recommend that my patients with thyroid problems start singing."
Just wondering if anyone else had ever heard of this?

I've heard of it but I didn't do anything along these lines. I've also heard that another interpretation/approach is expressing your feelings, really talking about problems. So not just using your voice (like singing) but communicating with your voice, yk?

Either way, I haven't done anything with this, though I do think I'm better at communicating in the past year or so. So maybe it's working backwards for me, my thyroid's mostly working right and now I can communicate more clearly with my DH.


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## illumini (Dec 2, 2006)

Hi! I think I posted a while back on the original thread, but I want to (quickly) reintroduce myself, tell my story, and ask some questions.

I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism almost 3 years ago. This was after being told by a couple of health care practitioners that I did not have it. I had gained about 60 pounds, needed to sleep more than 12 hours a night, and could not think clearly. I finally got diagnosed, but had to leave that doctor this year. I found a new doctor, who I saw once, 4 weeks ago. I had some apprehensions at that first meeting, but it seemed to go well. My TSH was .39. I did not realize that I was "2 weeks" pregnant at the time. I went in for another appointment with him today, during which he told me that I did not have hypothyroidism. He also mentioned that my TSH was too low (despite my symptoms) and that he wanted to lower my dose. I refused that. He then told me that I didn't need to come back for another 2 months. Sigh. Suffice to say, I will not be back.

So my questions:
1) I received my official lab report from my february blood draw. On the form itself, the criteria for pregnancy (1st tri) is .2-4.7 and my research has shown that it prolly should be .2- 2.99. I've never tried to dose according to my levels, and usually go off of symptoms, but I would like to know what is an "acceptable" range?

2) I also have heard that I need to go about every 4 weeks to the endo (especially during the first tri). Is this true? Or is 2 months alright?

3) I need to find a health care practitioner in the Central Florida area. Does anyone have any recommendations? Also how quickly do I need to get in to see him/her?

Sorry that this got so long but I'm really frustrated and annoyed. He also dismissed midwives and said that my baby would die (and I might, too!)







: Thanks!


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## NewDirections (Jul 18, 2008)

Can anyone advise me what thyroid tests I should get? I have lots of hypo syndromes like

weight gain/difficulty losing
feeling cold often
brain fog
constipation
irregular periods
infertility
fatigue
I had tests done at Kaiser and my results were:
TSH 3.39
Free T4 1.2
Prolactin 11
Testosterone free 2.4
Testosterone total 35

I emailed my doctor about my TSH being above 3.0 and feeling like I have hypothyroidism. She emailed back saying that their range goes up to 5.5. She also said that if I had hypo, my free T4 would have been low.

I just feel that my concerns were not taken seriously. After reading the Thyroid I and II threads, I think that I'm hypo. I'd like to get some tests done from an independent lab. What other tests should I get done?


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## llnmaw (Nov 1, 2005)

Quick question...

Got started on Armour (







: didn't even have to beg!!) about 2.5 weeks ago. I take it in the AM, usually around the time I eat breakfast (7:30 or so). I take nothing else...all day. By 12:30 or 1:00 I feel like it's difficult to catch my breath, or maybe more like I'm aware of my breathing and that it feels restricted. I CAN breathe, I'm just very aware that it feels tight. By late afternoon and all evening I keep feeling as though I could cough something up and if I did I would feel better. But I can't because there is really nothing there.

Anyone have any thoughts on this being due to too low a dose of Armour (had my thyroid removed 3.5 weeks ago) or am I reacting negatively to it.

I thought I read that someone mentioned shortness of breath as a hypo symptom....

Calling my HCP in the AM...but want to be armed with some thoughts and ideas before I phone.

~L.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TatianaTiger* 
Can anyone advise me what thyroid tests I should get? I have lots of hypo syndromes like

weight gain/difficulty losing
feeling cold often
brain fog
constipation
irregular periods
infertility
fatigue
I had tests done at Kaiser and my results were:
TSH 3.39
Free T4 1.2
Prolactin 11
Testosterone free 2.4
Testosterone total 35

I emailed my doctor about my TSH being above 3.0 and feeling like I have hypothyroidism. She emailed back saying that their range goes up to 5.5. She also said that if I had hypo, my free T4 would have been low.

I just feel that my concerns were not taken seriously. After reading the Thyroid I and II threads, I think that I'm hypo. I'd like to get some tests done from an independent lab. What other tests should I get done?

I'd say it's not a matter of what other tests, it's a matter of finding a HCP who uses symptoms and has a better understanding of where healthy people fall. The normal range is wide, your TSH is darn high and although I think your FT4 is in range, healthy, asymptomatic people are in the top third of the range. Some HCPs will look at your current labs and see that yes, there's a real problem here, and some will not, and you'd have to wait and hope your bloodwork trends out of the reference range.

You could try a more alternative HCP, maybe a naturopath, who could prescribe a thyroid replacement based on your symptoms and atypical lab results. Or you could go more alternative and find a HCP who has experience working with hypothyroid people with supps and various things (acupuncture could probably help) so that you don't ever take a thyroid replacement, but you take other supplements so that your thyroid produces enough hormone on its own.

Just in terms of labs--free T3 is really what your body has available to use, but it's possible that would also be in the low end of the normal range, which means you really do feel bad, no doubt, but your current HCP would probably not treat.


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## NewDirections (Jul 18, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TatianaTiger* 
Can anyone advise me what thyroid tests I should get? I have lots of hypo syndromes like

weight gain/difficulty losing
feeling cold often
brain fog
constipation
irregular periods
infertility
fatigue
I had tests done at Kaiser and my results were:
TSH 3.39
Free T4 1.2
Prolactin 11
Testosterone free 2.4
Testosterone total 35

I emailed my doctor about my TSH being above 3.0 and feeling like I have hypothyroidism. She emailed back saying that their range goes up to 5.5. She also said that if I had hypo, my free T4 would have been low.

I just feel that my concerns were not taken seriously. After reading the Thyroid I and II threads, I think that I'm hypo. I'd like to get some tests done from an independent lab. What other tests should I get done?

The above it my previous post, I just wanted to update and also ask a question. Instead of paying for my own labs, I decided to give Kaiser another try with a different dr. This doctor was more helpful and agreed with me that something is up with me due to my TSH and hypo symptoms. He prescribed 30mg (1/2 grain) of Armour







: I'm really happy about this but I'm wondering is that enough? In the reading that I've done, most people are taking at least 1 grain if not more. Did anyone else start out at this low dose? Did it help?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

A little annoyed.
Got my test results today (finally... they were pulled last month). I'm 32 weeks pregnant and have been complaining about thyroid symptoms acting up for the last 10 weeks or so, only to be told over and over "that's just normal pregnancy stuff.. normal pregnancy stuff..."








Turns out my TSH is "fine" but my FT4 is "a little low"... The range is 0.61- ?? (can't remember the upper number). My FT4 is 0.59. TSH is 2.84 (reference is ??- 4.6).
So I have to phone tomorrow to get an appointment with my PCP to discuss my medication. I want it upped. I'm sick of being out of breath from walking across the room.


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## NewDirections (Jul 18, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
A little annoyed.
Got my test results today (finally... they were pulled last month). I'm 32 weeks pregnant and have been complaining about thyroid symptoms acting up for the last 10 weeks or so, only to be told over and over "that's just normal pregnancy stuff.. normal pregnancy stuff..."








Turns out my TSH is "fine" but my FT4 is "a little low"... The range is 0.61- ?? (can't remember the upper number). My FT4 is 0.59. TSH is 2.84 (reference is ??- 4.6).
So I have to phone tomorrow to get an appointment with my PCP to discuss my medication. I want it upped. I'm sick of being out of breath from walking across the room.

It is so frustrating when our symptoms are not taken seriously by our hcps. I hope your pcp is receptive to your request to up your medication


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TatianaTiger* 
It is so frustrating when our symptoms are not taken seriously by our hcps. I hope your pcp is receptive to your request to up your medication









Thank you. I hope so too. It sounded, from my mw, like she might be... Although the way my mw was fixated on whether or not I'm tired/fatigued (she has hypoT as well) but then poo-pooed it off when I said "a little" by saying "Well you're pregnant..", I am a little concerned. However! She said the doctor (she's my new doctor) said that I should call if I'm having symptoms, so...


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

My doctor's appointment is tomorrow regarding thyroid stuff. Maybe if I can get that increased a bit, I won't be dragging my butt after sleeping for 10 hours and will be able to get more done (because I'll remember what I'm doing!). Didn't get my bathroom cleaned today because by the time I got to the hallway from the kitchen (where I keep my household binder- it's a distance of about 10 feet), I forgot why I was in the hallway. Had to go around the store a couple of times to get everything on my grocery list because I'd forget what I was looking for. Focus is "off". I totally zone out in the middle of conversations, sometimes having difficulty relating one word to the next. Yadda yadda.







It's like all the symptoms of brain fog, minus the fog (I hope that makes sense to someone).


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## NewDirections (Jul 18, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
My doctor's appointment is tomorrow regarding thyroid stuff. Maybe if I can get that increased a bit, I won't be dragging my butt after sleeping for 10 hours and will be able to get more done (because I'll remember what I'm doing!). Didn't get my bathroom cleaned today because by the time I got to the hallway from the kitchen (where I keep my household binder- it's a distance of about 10 feet), I forgot why I was in the hallway. Had to go around the store a couple of times to get everything on my grocery list because I'd forget what I was looking for. Focus is "off". I totally zone out in the middle of conversations, sometimes having difficulty relating one word to the next. Yadda yadda.







It's like all the symptoms of brain fog, minus the fog (I hope that makes sense to someone).

I have difficulty with conversations too. It seems my brain fog acts up then and I find myself saying "I can't remember what I was going to say







" I'm hoping my fog gets better as I keep taking meds. I've been a high school teacher for several years and this year I've just had the most difficult time learning my students names, much more so than previous years.

I'm hoping your doctor listens to your concerns and increases your meds. Please update when you can.

I'm trying to get an increase in my meds too. I don't think my dr will increase it so I'm considering using an online doctor. Has anyone else done that?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TatianaTiger* 
I'm hoping your doctor listens to your concerns and increases your meds. Please update when you can.

I'm trying to get an increase in my meds too. I don't think my dr will increase it so I'm considering using an online doctor. Has anyone else done that?

She did increase my meds.







: She upped me by 1/4 grain (which is all I asked for). She said she's concerned about raising it too high because the baby may have problems learning to make it's own thyroxine after it's born... Has anyone heard of this?

I've never used an online doctor, TT. Sorry.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Check out this article.


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## NewDirections (Jul 18, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
She did increase my meds.







: She upped me by 1/4 grain (which is all I asked for). She said she's concerned about raising it too high because the baby may have problems learning to make it's own thyroxine after it's born... Has anyone heard of this?

I've never used an online doctor, TT. Sorry.









I'm glad you got an increase









That article you posted is really interesting. All of my molars had amalgam fillings and I had them replaced about 5 years ago. That makes sense that it could be a cause of hypo. I haven't had my thyroid antibodies tested, but I was planning on getting some tests done at an independent lab done and I think I'll add those on.


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## coolgirl (Mar 6, 2009)

In past my blood work showed TSh of 4.0 so according to my GP I am hypo so took levo and se for a while Tsh dropped to 2.76. Currently I am taking 50 mcg se daily.
What do all think about iodine patch test? I was planning to give it a try but not sure if I should add iodine to my regimen based on this result.


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## LessTraveledBy (Feb 9, 2005)

Is the patch test the one where you rub iodine on your body and then wait to see how long it takes to disappear?

I was just tested low on iodine by Enterolabs (even though I use iodized salt and eat tons of milk products and eggs!). I also tried putting iodine on my leg yesterday and it did disappear quite fast. It is very interesting stuff...

I will see a specialist in May and thought I might be given Armour. However, now instead I wonder if getting my iodine levels up might be the only things that's needed...?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anumaria* 
Is the patch test the one where you rub iodine on your body and then wait to see how long it takes to disappear?

Yes, that's the one. I believe it should still be visible 24 hours later...


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## LessTraveledBy (Feb 9, 2005)

Interesting about the patch test. Mine is gone within less than 10 hrs. (And this is a dot the size of the palm of my hand.)

Does anyone know if the thyroid will fix itself once it finally gets anough iodine or is it more likely that I will need meds for my thyroid?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Some of the women on this thread have managed to avoid going on the thyroid meds by increasing nutrition. One resource to help you on your way is ithyroid.com, but I'm sure TanyaLopez will know of more.
The questions you have to ask are WHY are you depleted of iodine (and other nutrients), WHAT is the cause of this dis-ease in your body and HOW can you correct it? For some of us, the answers to some of those questions are: our detox pathways are blocked due to a high mercury load and we need to increase our nutrition (sometimes to seemingly insane levels).
Of course, the caveat is that you should not do any of this without the guidance of a qualified HCP.


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## coolgirl (Mar 6, 2009)

The iodine patch that I had applied on tummy disappered within 5 hrs. It was completely gone. Next day applied same size patch on the inner side of the thigh but it took 15 hrs to disappear. I am confused from these results but anyways went ahead and tried one 150mcg of iodine (potassium iodine) drop in a 1/2 cup of water and felt very sleepy after 30 minutes, finally ended up taking a nap although there were tons of things that needed to be done. My question is iodine making me sleepy a good thing or bad? should I continue or stop iodine.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *coolgirl* 
The iodine patch that I had applied on tummy disappered within 5 hrs. It was completely gone. Next day applied same size patch on the inner side of the thigh but it took 15 hrs to disappear. I am confused from these results but anyways went ahead and tried one 150mcg of iodine (potassium iodine) drop in a 1/2 cup of water and felt very sleepy after 30 minutes, finally ended up taking a nap although there were tons of things that needed to be done. My question is iodine making me sleepy a good thing or bad? should I continue or stop iodine.

I've read to use the abdomen (different skin and/or fat thickness? or different level of circulation? not sure), although a HCP I visited once swabbed it on the inside of my forearm. It disappeared quickly both ways, I didn't compare them to each other though.

Supplemental iodine can mobilize bromine (bromide? not sure of the form, or how/when they're transformed from one to the other), there's a page I was recommended on salt flushes to get rid of bromide...

http://drshevin.com/patient_educatio...giene/salt.php

A related link talked about using 1/2 tsp instead of 1/4 tsp. Panserbjorne had posts on this that talked about it more.

So maybe that's what's going on? 150mcg is a pretty small amount of iodine, I probably wouldn't jump to 5 or 10 mg just yet.

FWIW, I had a hard time doing the salt flush (I didn't get that copious-urination thing) because of my adrenals, I've gotten low (quite low, it seems) in sodium, and I think drinking extra salt is just helping re-hydrate myself, not actually doing the flush. Hopefully everyone else is better at taking care of themselves.







I figure I need the extra salt, so I've tried to just take more every day. YMMV (hopefully this isn't everyone else's experience!)

Anumaria--my thyroid is not broken, it was simply in need of more nutrients in order to manufacture thyroid hormone. Before I had a HCP (expecting hand-slap from Jacqueline







) I took high (very high) doses of some vitamins and minerals and in about 2 weeks felt significantly, significantly better. But, and this is huge, I had no idea _why_ my nutrients were so depleted, I just assumed my diet sucked. And it did, I'll be honest, but that wasn't enough reason for me to become hypothyroid. So I really think investigative work is important, but I also personally think that starting to correct stuff now is okay. I know I could barely think my way out of a paper bag back then, I was so fuzzy-brained, and getting functional was important.

To read more on nutrients and the thyroid, check out ithyroid.com. There is a section on things that can cause this stuff, but it's not emphasized heavily, but it's a vital step in this process. There are also at least one or two people in the old Thyroid Thread that used supps (check out a place like Whole Foods, they've got thyroid supps, and it's a trimmed down list from Jon's on ithyroid.com, he has a very, very long list, but I think a good multivit and some targeted supps and working on diet is a reasonable, and less expensive, way to go). Anyone looking at diet, consider the pros and cons of no-gluten.

An alternative-type HCP could help, if they believe that hypothyroidism is a nutritional disease for the most part rather than a permanent, unchangeable health condition. I have a great HCP, she's in Iowa--I only met her after I'd started figuring out some of this, but I feel she's great at putting together pieces, so your health history all makes sense.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Anumaria--my thyroid is not broken, it was simply in need of more nutrients in order to manufacture thyroid hormone. Before I had a HCP (expecting hand-slap from Jacqueline







) I took high (very high) doses of some vitamins and minerals and in about 2 weeks felt significantly, significantly better. But, and this is huge, I had no idea _why_ my nutrients were so depleted, I just assumed my diet sucked. And it did, I'll be honest, but that wasn't enough reason for me to become hypothyroid. So I really think investigative work is important, but I also personally think that starting to correct stuff now is okay. I know I could barely think my way out of a paper bag back then, I was so fuzzy-brained, and getting functional was important.

To read more on nutrients and the thyroid, check out ithyroid.com. There is a section on things that can cause this stuff, but it's not emphasized heavily, but it's a vital step in this process. There are also at least one or two people in the old Thyroid Thread that used supps (check out a place like Whole Foods, they've got thyroid supps, and it's a trimmed down list from Jon's on ithyroid.com, he has a very, very long list, but I think a good multivit and some targeted supps and working on diet is a reasonable, and less expensive, way to go). Anyone looking at diet, consider the pros and cons of no-gluten.

An alternative-type HCP could help, if they believe that hypothyroidism is a nutritional disease for the most part rather than a permanent, unchangeable health condition. I have a great HCP, she's in Iowa--I only met her after I'd started figuring out some of this, but I feel she's great at putting together pieces, so your health history all makes sense.

I remembered that you did it before you had a HCP. I'm just too much of a chicken to do anything without consulting my ND.







Usually what I plan to do is just fine by him, but I always prefer to have the reassurance because I sometimes don't have the whole picture. For example, kelp- which I intended to start using for iodine supplementation. I had no idea that it was often contaminated with arsenic- and the brand which I bought in particular was.
Regarding the LONG list on ithyroid.com, I'm slowly learning the reasons behind all of the supplements he recommends. Not that I can explain any of them to anyone, but...







(and that's not to say that I'm on all of them either... yet. I imagine at some point I may very well be because *my* thyroid, at this point in time, is sort of broken.)
I keep seeing the gluten-free recommendation everywhere (and hearing it from my ND














but I still haven't really come across the whys of it. Which annoys me.
I'm so glad my ND has the attitude you described in your last sentence. Most MDs don't/won't, so I completely agree that seeking an *alternative* HCP in guiding you with this is absolutely essential.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I remembered that you did it before you had a HCP. I'm just too much of a chicken to do anything without consulting my ND.







Usually what I plan to do is just fine by him, but I always prefer to have the reassurance because I sometimes don't have the whole picture. For example, kelp- which I intended to start using for iodine supplementation. I had no idea that it was often contaminated with arsenic- and the brand which I bought in particular was.
Regarding the LONG list on ithyroid.com, I'm slowly learning the reasons behind all of the supplements he recommends. Not that I can explain any of them to anyone, but...







(and that's not to say that I'm on all of them either... yet. I imagine at some point I may very well be because *my* thyroid, at this point in time, is sort of broken.)
I keep seeing the gluten-free recommendation everywhere (and hearing it from my ND














but I still haven't really come across the whys of it. Which annoys me.
I'm so glad my ND has the attitude you described in your last sentence. Most MDs don't/won't, so I completely agree that seeking an *alternative* HCP in guiding you with this is absolutely essential.

And fundamentally I was too desperate to NOT go out on my own and try this. I didn't have any alternative HCP at the time, and I was bruised at being blown off by my former doctor, and not blown off but not helped by my new office (they referred me to an endo, which was, well, not helpful but when I _finally_ got my synthroid prescription I felt very vindicated, and then I didn't fill it, but wow, it felt good!).

But seriously, I didn't feel like I had any choices, I just felt so bad and I needed to feel better.

I think the gluten thing is due to lectins and zonulin and people like me and my son with the opioid issue (gluteomorphin? I think that's it), and just in general, it seems problematic. I can't give particulars for all those things (I just included them for google-ability), but at this point, given how I see that we react, I don't need to know. But you, at this point, should just eat. Eat and try to rest and relax and take care of the little ones.

I'm so glad you have a helpful, supportive ND. My last pregnancy was horrible, I felt so alone (except for my wonderful midwife, but there was only so much she could do).


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Okay, so my Armour got increased the other day. The last couple of days when I wake up to pee (baby bladder syndrome), I have a really hard time getting back to sleep (mind feels really awake, thoughts are sort of racing). I'm wondering if it's because my Adrenal support is too low (I was supposed to be taking 4 pills a day of it, but I'm only taking 1 because more than that made me feel strange- a little sick and light headed or something).
Does anyone have experience with this?
I see my ND on the 22nd, but was thinking maybe I should call on Monday to see if I can get in sooner.

ETA: Cross posted in the Adrenal Fatigue thread.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

I'd try upping the adrenal stuff just a bit. Now that you've got more appropriate thyroid support, it makes sense that the adrenal stuff may need to be tweaked. But just try a little more, you're a lot under your old dose, right? Maybe just one more pill?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I'd try upping the adrenal stuff just a bit. Now that you've got more appropriate thyroid support, it makes sense that the adrenal stuff may need to be tweaked. But just try a little more, you're a lot under your old dose, right? Maybe just one more pill?

That's actually exactly what I was thinking... Maybe adding in one more in the evening rather than the morning.
I need to refill my zinc supplements anyway, so maybe I'll just phone with that quick question on Monday. Thankfully, my ND doesn't mind quick impromptu questions over the phone (so long as it's not habitual







).


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

You could try lunch, too, see if that helps shift your daily rhythm back to a better place. Just play around with it, never mind if it makes you feel horrible, and report back on all the possible combinations!







1 extra in the AM, 1 extra at lunch, 1 extra in the AM AND 1 extra at lunch...







My husband says I'm so helpful.


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## NewDirections (Jul 18, 2008)

I'm on about 2.5 grains of Armour and feeling good







I haven't been on meds for very long so I'm not sure if this is my ideal dose or not. I'm working on losing weight and I'm excited to see how my meds impacts that?

How is everyone doing?
If you're on thyroid meds, what are you on and how much to you take? TIA


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

I posted here a few months ago. I have an update, maybe it will be of interest to others.

Jan 5 routine bloodwork done (no symptoms): TSH 147
Jan 22 re-test out of disbelief (still no symptoms): TSH 84

Get results: Freak out. Much anxiety, disbelief and anger
(around that time I start to have numbness and tingling in feet and hands and sometimes limbs "fall asleep" in the night and sensation wakes me up)

Feb 2 re-test : TSH 41, find out I have Hashimoto's (antibody test)

Feb 14 go on Armour, 30 mg per day (at this point numbness and tingling is quite bothersome at night)

Within 2 days numbness and tingling are reduced greatly, although I still felt anxious the reduction in symptoms makes me feel better emotionally.

April 3 re-test: TSH 7
symptoms completely gone.

Throughout this whole time, in fact since October 08, I have been eating an extremely improved diet from previously. A so-called "traditional foods" diet.

I continue to take Armour.
I have stopped eating gluten to see if that will have an effect.
Next month I will begin my exclusive raw milk diet for 4 weeks. I am hoping this will clean my gut and help with my immune system trouble.
I have a blog about my trials to see if diet can help treat my illness.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Jimibell, if you search back a bit in this thread, there's a link to a study discussing selenium and thyroid antibodies (supping with selenium reduced antibody levels). An easy way to get selenium with food is brazil nuts, each one has about 100mcg of selenium, which is quite a bit. Long-term 2/day is reasonable, not much more than that except for shorter periods if you wanted to play around with it.

And I'm glad you're on the way to feeling better!


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Jimibell, if you search back a bit in this thread, there's a link to a study discussing selenium and thyroid antibodies (supping with selenium reduced antibody levels). An easy way to get selenium with food is brazil nuts, each one has about 100mcg of selenium, which is quite a bit. Long-term 2/day is reasonable, not much more than that except for shorter periods if you wanted to play around with it.

And I'm glad you're on the way to feeling better!

oh yes, my doc recommended that because my selenium and potassium were a little low....


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

ETA:





























Um, I meant to post to the Adrenal Fatigue thread. Oops









I almost deleted the below, but figured maybe somebody might want to see/do this anyway, so I'll keep this here after all.

===========

I think it can be useful to track the ups and downs of your progress as you work on healing yourself. It can be motivating to see your improvements, but also can help you pinpoint some trouble areas.

I devised a very simple sheet that I fit 8 to a page (4 on the front side and 4 on the back side). Of course it could just be digital but I like having a notebook to refer to). For me, here are the items I record on my sheet:

Date
Sleep ---- I note whether I had good sleep the previous night, or insomnia or other issues
Exercies ---- what I did and how much/how long
Breakfast ---- what I ate
Lunch
Snack
Dinner
Meds/Supp ---- what supplements and/or medication I took
Productivity ---- I note if I was able to be productive around the house, and what I did - for example a couple loads of laundry, or pickup of this room or that - or nothing at all
Work ---- similar to above, I note how well - or not - I was able to concentrate on my job and get things done
Notes ---- anything unusual would be noted here - travel, guests, emotional upsets, exciting news, unusually cranky toddler, etc.
Energy Score ---- here I assign a number - scoring sheet below - that sums up how I felt for the day overall - this part is the easiest part to look back on and say, oh wow, I have been rating myself a 4 or a 5 lately but two months ago I was only a 3 most of the time
*Energy Score Key*

10Able to expend a lot of energy without difficulty AND feel terrific!!

9Able to expend a lot of energy without difficulty.

8Able to expend some energy without difficulty.

7Able to keep up well if taking it easy.

6Functional (barely) but somewhat tired.

5Functional (barely) but really tired.

4Minimally productive with great effort.

3Unable to concentrate or be productive.

2Major emotional upset.

1Nonfunctional, unable to converse, hibernating.


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Is anyone familiar with this sort of product?

"Raw Thyroid
60 Capsules
Raw Thyroid Glandular Concentrate with Synergistic Complex
Raw tissue concentrates imported from New Zealand are made from toxin-free lyophilized glands from animals grazed on rangeland free of pesticides, growth hormones, antiobiotics or chemical additives.
This natural product is made without sugar, starch, preservatives, artificial colors or flavorings and contains no corn, wheat, yeast, soy or milk derivatives.
Suggested use for adults
As a dietary supplement, take one capsule daily, following a meal."

I was thinking that once my TSH gets to normal I would try this instead of the armour. Any feedback would be great!


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Has anyone had problems with breastfeeding supply issues while being properly medicated for hypoT? My supply tanked with DS2 just before I was dx'd so I'm a little concerned.
I need some reassurance, please.


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## Rippette (Apr 14, 2008)

Help! Is there an alternative test to the Iodine Uptake test that I could continue breastfeeding with?

I hate to wean my DS, but I will if I absolutely have to.

I am all new to this! Thank you for any help!


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Does anyone else experience vertigo spells?


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## marlne (Mar 15, 2006)

Hello~
I have a bit to learn regarding hypothyroidism testing.. I've learned about what range the AACE recommends for TSH and that's what got me to find a doctor to treat me after my son was born. Nobody would help me, my TSH was 4.65 and I had lots of symptoms with the worse one being that I couldn't even sit on the floor and get up w/o a lot of pain. I knew somethign wasn't right. It wasn't until I brought in "Proof" of AACE's newer TSH levels, that I could get treated for being "subclinical".

Well, I've been on synthroid since then and recently had a bout of weightgain. The weight won't come off no matter what I do, so out of frustration I went to my PCP and he referred me to an Endocrinologist since he thought the weight could be thyroid related. (YAY, finally got a referral!)

My first appt. with the Endo was on Tuesday and he put me on a certain diet and felt a goiter and nodule. Now I'm scheduled for an u/s guided FNA this coming up Tuesday. I'm pretty nervous about the FNA but the good news is that I may have a little bit of an answer since a pathologist will be there to discuss what is found. I also had more lab work done but won't know what those say until then as well.

I think I need help in finding out what tests can be done next, just incase the doctor isn't on the up about things like some doctors can be.. I think the Endo only is testing TSH, FT4 (or was it FT3? I can't remember since I just quickly glanced at the lab order) and an antibody test.

This doctor is new for me, so I don't know for sure how he is. I don't know yet if he's the type to treat according to symptoms or TSH or if he's willing to check cortisol and adrenal levels. I have so much to learn myself and want to be ready and proactive.
Learning I've got the goiter and nodule now, really tells me it was a good thing I was proactive enough to even get treated for what doctors said was "in range" when my TSH was 4.65.


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marlne* 
Hello~
I have a bit to learn regarding hypothyroidism testing.. I've learned about what range the AACE recommends for TSH and that's what got me to find a doctor to treat me after my son was born. Nobody would help me, my TSH was 4.65 and I had lots of symptoms with the worse one being that I couldn't even sit on the floor and get up w/o a lot of pain. I knew somethign wasn't right. It wasn't until I brought in "Proof" of AACE's newer TSH levels, that I could get treated for being "subclinical".

Well, I've been on synthroid since then and recently had a bout of weightgain. The weight won't come off no matter what I do, so out of frustration I went to my PCP and he referred me to an Endocrinologist since he thought the weight could be thyroid related. (YAY, finally got a referral!)

My first appt. with the Endo was on Tuesday and he put me on a certain diet and felt a goiter and nodule. Now I'm scheduled for an u/s guided FNA this coming up Tuesday. I'm pretty nervous about the FNA but the good news is that I may have a little bit of an answer since a pathologist will be there to discuss what is found. I also had more lab work done but won't know what those say until then as well.

I think I need help in finding out what tests can be done next, just incase the doctor isn't on the up about things like some doctors can be.. I think the Endo only is testing TSH, FT4 (or was it FT3? I can't remember since I just quickly glanced at the lab order) and an antibody test.

This doctor is new for me, so I don't know for sure how he is. I don't know yet if he's the type to treat according to symptoms or TSH or if he's willing to check cortisol and adrenal levels. I have so much to learn myself and want to be ready and proactive.
Learning I've got the goiter and nodule now, really tells me it was a good thing I was proactive enough to even get treated for what doctors said was "in range" when my TSH was 4.65.

if possible, second opinions never hurt (unless you have to pay for them)....


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## GoddessKristie (Oct 31, 2006)

My test results are in today! I took the Canary Club Combo panel and thought I'd post both here and the Adrenal Fatigue thread to see what everyone thinks!
I love that he included books to read in the notes! Those might be beneficial to others as well.
Here is the chart of what was tested and my levels:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...tresults-1.jpg

Here is the graph of my levels:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k2...lts-charts.jpg

And here are the notes that came along with it:

Quote:

Estradiol is within observed range of 1.3-3.3 pg/ml for a premenopausal woman during the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle.
Progesterone is low, consistent with anovulatory cycles and/or a luteal phase deficiency. Low progesterone may contribute to
some of the reported symptoms of both estrogen dominance (e.g., mood swings, fibrocystic breast changes and breast
tenderness, water retention, and weight gain) and estrogen deficiency (e.g., hot flashes, night sweats, sleep disturbances).
Therapies that help induce ovulation and support production of progesterone by the ovaries (corpus luteum) would likely be
beneficial (i.e. cyclic progesterone, Vitex agnus castus). A relative excess of estrogen, unopposed by adequate progesterone,
often leads to a functional thyroid deficiency and one or more of the following symptoms: cold hands and feet, low basal body
temperature, low libido (despite normal/high testosterone), fatigue-particularly in the evening, low stamina, depression, foggy
thinking, anxiety, fibromyalgia, brittle nails and hair, hair loss, puffy eyes, decreased sweating, and constipation. Some of these
symptoms are listed on the requisition form.
Testosterone and DHEAS are low/low-normal which is often associated with one or more symptoms of androgen deficiency (low
libido, incontinence, vaginal dryness, fatigue, memory lapses, bone loss, and depression). Testosterone is an anabolic
hormone essential for creating energy, maintaining optimal brain function (memory), regulating the immune system, and building
and maintaining the integrity of structural tissues such as skin, muscles, and bone. Low salivary and serum testosterone has
been correlated with low bone mass in both perimenopausal and postmenopausal women (Oronzo et al. Eur J Epidemiology
16: 907-912, 2000; Slemenda et al. J Clin Invest 97: 14-21, 1996). Because the androgens are low, it would be worthwhile to
evaluate bone density periodically (yearly) and to consider androgen supplementation to prevent long term health issues,
particularly osteoporosis and increased fracture risk. DHEA supplementation has been shown to raise both DHEAS and
testosterone levels in women (not in men) (Morales et al. 1994. Clin Endocrinol Metab. 78: 1360-67). When DHEAS AND
testosterone are both low, DHEA supplementation is often preferred to testosterone supplementation alone since DHEA therapy
increases both DHEAS and testosterone, and DHEAS has additional benefits to the immune system not seen with testosterone.
DHEAS is lower than the expected age range. Chronic low DHEAS may suggest adrenal fatigue, particularly if cortisol is also
low and symptoms are indicative of low adrenal function. DHEAS is highest during the late teens to early twenties (10-20 ng/ml)
and drops steadily with age to the lower end of range by age 70-80 (2-9 ng/ml). Mid-life DHEAS levels in both males and
females are usually in the range of 5-8 ng/ml. Low DHEAS may contribute to low androgen symptoms (decreased libido,
depression, fatigue, memory lapses, and/or bone loss), since DHEAS is a testosterone precursor. In individuals with very low
DHEAS (< 2 ng/ml), DHEA supplementation in the 5-25 mg dosing range usually raises DHEAS to levels seen in mid-life.
Cortisol is within normal range in the morning and at noon, rises to a high level in the evening and then drops to a normal range
again at night. Higher evening/night cortisol indicates either some form of adrenal stressor(s) that is increasing adrenal gland
synthesis of cortisol or supplementation with a glucocorticoid (eg. hydrocortisone used as an anti-inflammatory or some other
cortisol analogue used for treating allergies or asthma) or adrenal adaptogen that increases adrenal cortisol synthesis (eg.
licorice or ginseng), The most common stressors include: psychological stressors (emotional), physical insults (injury, pain,
diseases), chemical exposure (environmental pollutants, excessive medications), hypoglycemia (low blood sugar), and
pathogenic infections (bacterial, viral, fungal). Acute situational stressors (e.g., anxiety over unresolved situations, coming
home from work to a stressful situation.) can also result in a transient increase in evening/night cortisol levels, which is a normal
response to the stressor. Chronic high evening/night cortisol is commonly associated with sleep disturbances, fatigue,
depression, weight gain in the waist, bone loss, and anxiety. This condition can also impair the actions of other hormones such
as insulin and thyroid, causing symptoms of their deficiency, even though the levels of these hormones may be within normal
range (i.e., insulin resistance and thyroid deficiency). For additional information about strategies for supporting adrenal health
and reducing stressors, the following books are worth reading: "Adrenal Fatigue", by James L. Wilson, N.D., D.C., Ph.D.; "The
Cortisol Connection", by Shawn Talbott, Ph.D.; "The End of Stress As We Know It" by Bruce McEwen; "Awakening Athena" by
Kenna Stephenson, MD; "The End of Stress As We Know It" by Bruce McEwen.
Free T3 is low, consistent with symptoms of thyroid deficiency. Because T4 is within normal range this suggests poor hepatic
conversion of T4 to T3. This may be caused by nutrient deficiency (e.g., zinc and/or selenium), low hGH (low IGF-1), heavy
metal toxicity, liver dysfunction, or steroid hormone imbalances (high estradiol, low progesterone, low testosterone, low or high
cortisol). TSH is within normal range and not reflective of the low T3 and symptoms of thyroid deficiency. This is common with
excessive stress (note: stress is reported as moderate/severe) and associated high production of stress hormones (cortisol or
catecholamines) that suppress pituitary synthesis of TSH. Due to poor T4 to T3 conversion consider thyroid medication that
contains both T4 and T3 or T3 alone. Because a normal physiological level of cortisol is essential for optimal actions of T3 at
the thyroid receptor/gene level, a normal cortisol level should be confirmed by saliva testing before attempting thyroid therapy.
For an excellent review explaining the effects of stress on thyroid and steroid hormone function please see the following:
www.endotext.com/adrenal.
No Hashimotos!


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## scbegonias (Aug 15, 2003)

hi...

i was diagnosed with hypo a few weeks back, and i started on .5 gram armour four days ago. it has helped tremendously with the exhaustion, and i'm not feeling lightheaded quite as much. i have noticed that i feel like i had a bit too much coffee for about an hour after i first take it at 6am, and i'm definitely more prone to the affects of caffeine (the little that i do have). one strange thing is that at about 10 or so each night i start getting lower back pain, and by morning my back and legs have a dull ache. i've always had back pain, which, besides these episodes, seems much relieved. could this low back/leg pain be caused by a drop in hormone as it becomes time to take the armour again?

also, is there anyone else out there hypo who is of normal weight? what affect has armour had on you weight-wise.

i'm going to start seeing a natural-focused nurse practitioner to try to get back into health, while continuing to see my midwife (who prescribed the armour). i'm also going to start on some selenium. otherwise, i'm fairly gluten free, and super low dairy and soy.

what else should i focus on to heal?


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

scbegonias...

I was overweight when I treated my hypo and didn't change weight. Not exactly what you asked, but sorta a disappointment to me at the time.

You may want to check out The Adrenal Thread. Many of us who've had health problems building for a while also have adrenal problems. The symptoms overlap somewhat with thyroid stuff so it's easy to miss.

If you want to read about other minerals, besides selenium and iodine (not sure if you've read much/any about iodine and thyroid function), ithyroid.com is a great place to start. Lots of info, sort of overwhelming, but this page is a good one to start at...
http://ithyroid.com/latest_ideas.htm

I think he's mostly right, but he doesn't emphasize enough _why_ people could get so out of balance, mineral-wise. I mean--lots of folks don't consume much zinc (deficiency is common) and many of us don't consume a lot of iodine, but why doesn't everyone have falling out hair and massive exhaustion and low body temps?


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## FrannieP (Sep 11, 2007)

Quote:

one strange thing is that at about 10 or so each night i start getting lower back pain, and by morning my back and legs have a dull ache.
As TanyaLopez said, adrenals are linked with thyroid. It's quite common to start having adrenal symptoms after starting thyroid supps b/c when the thyroid starts kicking in the adrenals have to work harder. This is sometimes felt in the area of the kidneys as the adrenals sit above the kidneys.

Selenium and vit c are good imo. And magnesium for me.


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## scbegonias (Aug 15, 2003)

Thanks for the great leads!

I've been wading through the adrenal thread. Wowsers, its long.

I also had a blood cortisol test on Friday, but I'm not confident in it since the first draw wasn't until just before 8:30 because of lab mix ups. I'm contemplating the saliva test.

I do feel tons better after starting the Armour...so I feel like I can actually address my health







.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Just a quick tip on the adrenal front... One of the most important things you can do (imo) is to make sure that you're getting enough vitamin D, B-vitamins and vitamin C.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Glad to have found this thread. I don't have an official diagnosis yet, as I'm waiting for a second panel of blood tests to get their results in, but my initial test showed a TSH level of 7.1 (I'm horrified reading stories of people having levels in the hundreds!!).

My symptoms are extreme irritability (this is the most distressing symptom for me -- it's awful), weight gain, fatigue, painful/irregular menstruation, achiness, depression, and low libido. I've been feeling this way for close to a year (starting soon after the birth of my daughter) -- I actually sought treatment for depression late last year, and I hate to think that I almost went on antidepressants, which would have just masked that symptom while letting the others continue.

Anyway, glad to have found some support here -- it's helpful to read your stories. I'm so hoping that this will be What's Been Wrong With Me, and that treating this will Fix Everything, but I know that may just be wishful thinking. I am hoping for some relief though, especially from the irritability/rage.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Limabean, for the irritability/rage issue, really check out The Adrenal Thread. Oftentimes people have both things going on, hypo and adrenal issues, and at least for me, the irritability/rage is much more adrenal. It's not something to bring up with a conventional doctor, it's alternative-types who address it, though you could also read the thread (lots of discussion of supps in the past, say, 2-4 weeks--it's a REALLY long thread) and you could start thinking about it on your own.


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## kjbrown92 (Dec 13, 2007)

11/2007 I had thyroid test
Peroxidase Ab <10 (reference range <35)
Parathyroid Hormone, PTH, intact 42 (reference range 10-65)
6/2007 I had:
TSH 1.43
FT4 1.1 (reference range 0.8-1.8)
6/2008 I had:
TSH 2.61
FT4 1.2 (reference range 0.8-1.8)
4/2009 I had:
FT4 1.0 (reference range 0.8-1.8)
FT3 296 (reference range 230-420)

So it looks like everything is normal to ME. Endocrinologist put me on super low dose Levoxyl last September to see if it would help with my odd complaints even though she said my numbers were okay (going by TSH and FT4 numbers). It didn't do anything over 3 months so she said I didn't need them. My osteopath just had me do this last test, and he said my numbers weren't that good, that he wanted to see them elsewhere in the range. I do have thyroid nodules which is why they started testing my thyroid every year. And I have lots of the symptoms from the stopthethyroidmadness page. If my numbers are within the reference range, do I still need to do something?


----------



## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Ugh, I'm so confused. I had repeat bloodwork, and the TSH levels went from 7.1 to 4.2 (with two weeks between blood draws), so they're apparently in the "normal" range now. However, my antibody levels are high -- peroxidase antibodies are 65 and thyroglobulin antibodies are 126. I have no idea what to make of this information -- my PCP has referred me to a thyroid specialist for another opinion, at my request. My PCP said that elevated antibody levels indicate Hashimoto's, but how can I have Hashimoto's without having hypothyroidism? If it helps, my other numbers were:
T4: 8.6 (range = 4.5-12.5)
T3 uptake: 31 (range = 22-35)
Free T4: 2.7 (range = 1.4-3.8)

Does anyone have any insight, or good questions for me to ask the specialist when I go?


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

nak
if i've read things right in my research, high antibodies means either hashi's or grave's regardless of other #s because they will eventually lead to malfunction of the thyroid due to the antibodies attacking it.
there are 2 things i would ask, had i caught it prior to my thyroid tanking:
is it possible that simply supping with selenium will prevent me from having to take thyroid hormone?
is low dose thyroid hormone necessary? and would taking it, along with selenium, prevent further damage to my thyroid?

it's important to remember that people with hashi's can have hyper periods as well as hypo, although hypo seems to be much more common... that's why it's called hashimoto's thyroiditis not hashimoto's hypothyroidism


----------



## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Subbing.


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Hi Limabean,
I have Hashis. I was first diagnosed as hypo my TSH was at a 43. Waited 4 weeks then tested my antibodies which were high as well thus hashis









My Tsh, T3, and T4 are now normal but my antibodies are still high. I praying it will go away that happens to SOME people but rare. There's so much info out there but it can be overwhelming. That's why I stopped reading for 2 months it was just stressing me out even more but now I'm back at it once I found the threads here.

I feel like I'm starting over again with the whole thyroid thing. I need to get on vitamins and minerals. All I'm taking is a omega-3, multi, and D3. Don't think that's covering the bases








~Jada


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Hi Limabean,
I have Hashis. I was first diagnosed as hypo my TSH was at a 43. Waited 4 weeks then tested my antibodies which were high as well thus hashis









My Tsh, T3, and T4 are now normal but my antibodies are still high. I praying it will go away that happens to SOME people but rare. There's so much info out there but it can be overwhelming. That's why I stopped reading for 2 months it was just stressing me out even more but now I'm back at it once I found the threads here.

I feel like I'm starting over again with the whole thyroid thing. I need to get on vitamins and minerals. All I'm taking is a omega-3, multi, and D3. Don't think that's covering the bases








~Jada









Selenium has been proven to decrease antibody counts in Hashi's. (I have Hashi's too, btw.) I can't give you examples for myself b/c my PCP doesn't run antibody tests







and the lab my ND goes through is REALLY expensive (not to mention across the country). All I know for sure is that my antibody counts 7 months after I started thyroxine supplementation were in the thousands with "normal" results for everything else. I'm considering biting the bullet after this LO is born to find out what's what with the antibodies now but I'm not sure we'll be able to afford it if my PCP refuses to run it again.
Anyway, there are a lot of studies on it. Here's a quick blurb about it on thyroid.about.com
HTH.

ETA: I was first dx'd hypo as well with TSH over 100. My PCP wouldn't run antibodies because, according to her, "it didn't change treatment." After reading more, it DOES change treatment.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
I have Hashis. I was first diagnosed as hypo my TSH was at a 43. Waited 4 weeks then tested my antibodies which were high as well thus hashis










Per JaneS, _"There is evidence that Hashimoto's is caused by subclinical gluten intolerance. See www.enterolab.com "Before the Villi are Gone" article on autoimmune disease._ "

Pat


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Selenium has been proven to decrease antibody counts in Hashi's. (I have Hashi's too, btw.) I can't give you examples for myself b/c my PCP doesn't run antibody tests







and the lab my ND goes through is REALLY expensive (not to mention across the country). All I know for sure is that my antibody counts 7 months after I started thyroxine supplementation were in the thousands with "normal" results for everything else. I'm considering biting the bullet after this LO is born to find out what's what with the antibodies now but I'm not sure we'll be able to afford it if my PCP refuses to run it again.
Anyway, there are a lot of studies on it. Here's a quick blurb about it on thyroid.about.com
HTH.

ETA: I was first dx'd hypo as well with TSH over 100. My PCP wouldn't run antibodies because, according to her, "it didn't change treatment." After reading more, it DOES change treatment.

Your situation sounds very similar to mine. What supps are you taking? What's thyroxine?


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Your situation sounds very similar to mine. What supps are you taking? What's thyroxine?

Thyroxine is T4- usually prescribed as levo-thyroxine (Synthroid). I switched to NatureThroid (natural dessicated thyroid containing both T4 and T3) in January then to Armour in March or so... I think that's the right timeline... I'd have to go back on this thread to find out.








I take quite a few supplements...
Adrenal Support
Selenium
Zinc
Prenatal supplement
B-complex
MSM
Vitamin C
Vitamin D3
Osteo-Nutrients 2 (Cal/Mag)

I think I'm missing a couple but I don't want to fight with baby gates to go look right now.








I'm under the care of a great ND who also has me on a homeopathic remedy which has been helping a great deal with some issues (emotional and physical).
Do you have amalgam (aka silver) fillings or live on the Eastern Seaboard? I have suspicions that many of the issues I"m facing are due to mercury exposure which sort of slows me down some right now as it's a difficult problem to address while nursing... and I'd class as impossible (not wise) while pregnant.

ETA: And to address what Pat posted- I *do* believe that I have subclinical gluten intolerance, also likely caused by mercury.







I just stick my head in the sand sometimes.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
is it possible that simply supping with selenium will prevent me from having to take thyroid hormone?

Possibly, selenium deficiency interferes with T3/T4 conversion in the liver.

More likely would be to supplement iodine as well... low iodine is cause of most if not all thyroid disorders.

I don't know how much y'all have been talking about iodine here in this thread but I don't have time to read back. I'll come back when my giant post is up to insert a link.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Per JaneS, _"There is evidence that Hashimoto's is caused by subclinical gluten intolerance. See www.enterolab.com "Before the Villi are Gone" article on autoimmune disease._ "

Pat

Also there is Dr. Brownstein's view on Hashi's, which is iodine deficiency. The Hashi's chapter from his book is online at Iodine Yahoo group:

THE UNDERLYING CAUSE OF AUTOIMMUNE THYROID ILLNESSES: IODINE DEFICIENCY AND ANTIOXIDANT DEFICIENCY
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/38079

Quote:

How to Treat Autoimmune Thyroid Disorders

1. Ingest enough iodine* in order to provide adequate substrate to iodinate lipids.

2. Take Vitamins B2 and B3 in amounts necessary to stimulate the NADPH system to produce adequate amounts of H2O2.

3. Correct oxidant stress in the thyroid gland and the mitochondria with antioxidants.

4. Ensure adequate magnesium levels.

5. Minimize oxidative stress in the body.

*enough means adequate iodine until you excrete 90% thru an iodine loading urine test. According to Brownstein this means 50 mg. iodine per day for at least 3 months. I know this is repetitive for you but just want it down here.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Also mercury strips the body of selenium as it has great affinity for that mineral.


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:

2. Take Vitamins B2 and B3 in amounts necessary to stimulate the NADPH system to produce adequate amounts of H2O2.
See, I kept coming back to NADPH in trying to figure out my detox stuff in the Allergies forum but wasn't certain exactly how to address it.
How do you figure out what "amounts necessary to stimulate the NADPH system to produce adequate amounts of H2O2" are?


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Possibly, selenium deficiency interferes with T3/T4 conversion in the liver.

More likely would be to supplement iodine as well... low iodine is cause of most if not all thyroid disorders.

I don't know how much y'all have been talking about iodine here in this thread but I don't have time to read back. I'll come back when my giant post is up to insert a link.

It was actually a question for a pp to ask her doctor.







I'm already on Armour for Hashi's and taking selenium.







I consider this a "temporary measure" to allow me to get to where I want to be.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*44 Million Women at Risk of Thyroid Deficiency From Rocket Fuel Chemical*

Federal Study Confirms Perchlorate as Widespread Public Health Threat

Quote:

A startling new study by the federal Centers for Disease Control (CDC) says minute traces of a toxic rocket fuel chemical found in milk, fruit vegetables and drinking water supplies nationwide lowers essential thyroid hormones in women.
http://www.ewg.org/node/20902
The only way to detox perchlorate, to throw it out of the receptors, is iodine.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
See, I kept coming back to NADPH in trying to figure out my detox stuff in the Allergies forum but wasn't certain exactly how to address it.
How do you figure out what "amounts necessary to stimulate the NADPH system to produce adequate amounts of H2O2" are?

Dunno exactly, he doesn't say in that chapter but this is suggested in Breast Cancer Choices iodine protocol
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/iprotocol.html

Quote:

500 mg niacin (B3) twice a day. (NOT niacinamide) Start lower to avoid flush.

100 mg Vitamin B2 three times a day


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
It was actually a question for a pp to ask her doctor.







I'm already on Armour for Hashi's and taking selenium.







I consider this a "temporary measure" to allow me to get to where I want to be.

whoops sorry I knew I was going to stick my foot in my mouth when I hadn't read the back story!


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
whoops sorry I knew I was going to stick my foot in my mouth when I hadn't read the back story!

It's all good. Your input is always appreciated!








Are you going to post a link to your iodine thread here too?


----------



## farmerjess (Feb 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Also there is Dr. Brownstein's view on Hashi's, which is iodine deficiency. The Hashi's chapter from his book is online at Iodine Yahoo group:

THE UNDERLYING CAUSE OF AUTOIMMUNE THYROID ILLNESSES: IODINE DEFICIENCY AND ANTIOXIDANT DEFICIENCY
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/38079

*enough means adequate iodine until you excrete 90% thru an iodine loading urine test. According to Brownstein this means 50 mg. iodine per day for at least 3 months. I know this is repetitive for you but just want it down here.

I recently joined the iodine group and was interested to learn that Dr Flechas (a thyroid/iodine focused md in north carolina) approaches hashimotos disease as primarily an under-methylation problem and treats with TMG and methyl forms of B-12, folate, and selenium (and iodine too, I'm sure).

Here's a quote I found on another forum

Quote:

How does iodine supplementation affect thyroid antibody levels?

Flechas: We watched the antibody levels carefully for several years when we first started supplementing with iodine. We did not notice any changes. They were essentially stable. The antibody levels are not a result of iodine. Iodine actually stabilizes the internal structure of the thyroid gland in both Graves and Hashimoto's.

Autoimmunity is an effect of methylation -- not iodine levels. If you increase the methyl groups, the antibodies will drop. (Gave example of someone with TPOab = 900. Gave methyl groups (e.g., 1 teaspoon per day of tri-methylglycine). Antibodies dropped to 100 in one month. Gave a couple more similar examples.)
I have not intro'd myself on this thread yet. I just got my hypoT diagnosis about 4 weeks ago. My TSH was 89 and my Free T3 was 0.33. I am currently taking 2 grains of armour and building up from there. I am feeling soooo much better. I am interested in starting iodine, but still researching iodine and breastfeeding. I am waiting on my antibodies test...I should get it on Thursday.


----------



## stretch358 (Nov 5, 2007)

Hi - I just got diagnosed with Hashi's last week. Dr said he just wanted to monitor me no treatment at all. So I am breaking the bank and going out of network to a dr. who will treat me.

I have read both this and the original thyroid therad. I have some questions (which may have been answered but I didn't absorb it)

How is the treatment for Hashi's different than the treatment for Hypo?


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## indeospero (May 23, 2005)

Hello, wise mamas!

I have made my way through a lot of, but not all of







, this thread. I am in the process of investigating my thyroid health. I have a lot of the usual symptoms: what origianally tipped me off was learning that low body temps (mine are never over 97.5) are *not normal*, and most recently added to the list is severe hair loss (for about the last 4-6 weeks). Plus the usual suspects: fatigue, hypersensitivity to light, severe irritability, low libido, etc. etc.

I have some lab results here that I'd love some help interpreting. (I also posted this as its own thread in H&H.) The normal ranges are, of course, indicated, but I've learned from this thread and the original thyroid thread that these are not always to be trusted. Your opinions would be very welcome! (I have bolded the ones that were flagged by the lab.)

Iron levels:
iron 98 (NR=40-150ug/dL)
% Fe saturation 28 (NR=15-50%)
ferritin 34 (NR=10-220ng/mL) (this seems like a huge range - what is considered optimal?)

Thyroid levels:
*free T3 227* (NR=230-420pg/dl)
free T4 1.05 (NR=0.7-4.0 uIU/mL)
TSH 1.67 (NR=0.4-4.0
*antithyroglobulin AB 121* (NR<60 U/mL)
thyroid perox. AB 32 (NR<60 U/mL)

DHEA sulfate 304 (NR=45-320mcg/dL)

Thank you in advance for any advice!


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## llnmaw (Nov 1, 2005)

Okay so I don't know how I could get this far into this and be confused over something so seemingly simple.

After having my thyroid removed in March my TSH has been hanging out around 98. Working on dose changes and am seeing the numbers come down slowly. TSH now is 28, I think. Got a dose increase to see if we can keep nudging it down.

Here is my confusion. I was reading the insert that comes with the prescription and it says that "Synthroid is (and this is bolded) used for treating low thyroid hormone levels". Further on it says, again in bold" Use of this medicine is not recommended if you have untreated adrenal gland problems, *high thyroid hormone levels.*...." Does 28 or above qualify as a high thyroid level?

So, is my TSH too high or too low? I thought the goal was to make it around 1 or 2, a low number. It's been hanging out much higher than that. 28-98=high numbers.

See what I'm saying?

~L.


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## kdegroo (Dec 11, 2006)

Dear Confused,

Yes, there is a LOT to sort through. Your TSH is "Thyroid Stimulating Hormone." Basically, the higher the number, the LOWER your thyroid is functioning, and the more your body is trying to stimulate it. You have low thyroid hormone levels (or none if you don't have a thyroid). Does that help?

I would really strongly urge you to try Armour thryoid because it has a broader spectrum of the thyroid hormones. I feel like night and day on Armour and Synthroid.

Good luck!


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *indeospero* 
I have some lab results here that I'd love some help interpreting.

Iron levels:
iron 98 (NR=40-150ug/dL)
% Fe saturation 28 (NR=15-50%)
ferritin 34 (NR=10-220ng/mL) (this seems like a huge range - what is considered optimal?) When my ferritin was a bit low, but still inside the ref range, both my HCPs mentioned it and wanted me to supp iron. It didn't help with my fatigue, but apparently it helps some people.

Thyroid levels:
*free T3 227* (NR=230-420pg/dl) This is enough to make you feel really bad.
free T4 1.05 (NR=0.7-4.0 uIU/mL) Even though this is in the range, it's low too.
TSH 1.67 (NR=0.4-4.0 This was too high for me, but it kept trending up and eventually got out of range for me--apparently it's pretty individual how this goes.
*antithyroglobulin AB 121* (NR<60 U/mL)
thyroid perox. AB 32 (NR<60 U/mL)

DHEA sulfate 304 (NR=45-320mcg/dL)

Thank you in advance for any advice!









Probably way too late, hope you got answers in your other thread!


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Have a friend with Graves Disease. Haven't researched anything, but wanted to inquire about any favorite sites or recommendations.

Thanks, Pat


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Have a friend with Graves Disease. Haven't researched anything, but wanted to inquire about any favorite sites or recommendations.

Thanks, Pat

Not sure how helpful, but the only one i've seen mention hyperT is ithyroid.com.
pumping at keys


----------



## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Have a friend with Graves Disease. Haven't researched anything, but wanted to inquire about any favorite sites or recommendations.

Thanks, Pat


Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Not sure how helpful, but the only one i've seen mention hyperT is ithyroid.com.
pumping at keys









ithyroid's the most informative site out there that I know of (in the alternative sense), but it's fairly mechanistic and it's quite possible to overlook the whole causal chain (at least I did).

Seems like it's not an uncommon path to be subclinical hypo for a long time and then turn hyper with Graves, seems like that's what my mom did (in retrospect). Obviously I'd be considering amalgams, since that's how it happens in our family, but there have got to be other causes as well.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
ithyroid's the most informative site out there that I know of (in the alternative sense), but it's fairly mechanistic and it's quite possible to overlook the whole causal chain (at least I did).

Seems like it's not an uncommon path to be subclinical hypo for a long time and then turn hyper with Graves, seems like that's what my mom did (in retrospect). Obviously I'd be considering amalgams, since that's how it happens in our family, but there have got to be other causes as well.

The mama became hyperthyroid after a stillbirth at 34 weeks. Then three subsequent miscarriages. The endo recommended radioactive iodine. She didn't go for that. She's seeing an ND, but is interested in informing herself.

I'm curious about the relationship of the baby's thyroid and her sudden hyper, which is diminishing. Your comment about subclinical hypo first is interesting.

Thanks, Pat


----------



## Amila (Apr 4, 2006)

Hope I am not hijacking...looking for advice:

I thought I had Lyme for a while, achy joints, fatigue, weakness in arms and lack of energy. I had bloodwork done, and my TSH was normal (1.8) my peroxidase and thyroglobulin antibodies were high- in the 300's. My red blood cell and white blood cell counts were a bit low, but not by much. Lyme was inconclusive. I have dropped like 15 pounds since November despite regular eating and not really exercising (after already returning to my PP weight). All of this stuff happened to me right around the same time when my daughter was nearing 1. Now my son is nearing 1. i am suspecting Graves or postpartum thyroiditis. My doc says wait and see, retest blood in 3 months. I made the first appt I could get with an endo- on Oct 24







:

Help! What about TTC? Doctor says I have to wait a year.


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Hashis/hypo here and wondering what those with the same have taken to noticably get antibodies down.

I'm so confused all the different causes of Hashis gluten,iodine deficiency, methylation(don't even know what that is). I developed hashis/hypothyroid after i had a baby(4 months PP)DD is now 13 months.
i need to read more in this thread theres so much


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Thyroxine is T4- usually prescribed as levo-thyroxine (Synthroid). I switched to NatureThroid (natural dessicated thyroid containing both T4 and T3) in January then to Armour in March or so... I think that's the right timeline... I'd have to go back on this thread to find out.








I take quite a few supplements...
Adrenal Support
Selenium
Zinc
Prenatal supplement
B-complex
MSM
Vitamin C
Vitamin D3
Osteo-Nutrients 2 (Cal/Mag)

I think I'm missing a couple but I don't want to fight with baby gates to go look right now.








I'm under the care of a great ND who also has me on a homeopathic remedy which has been helping a great deal with some issues (emotional and physical).
Do you have amalgam (aka silver) fillings or live on the Eastern Seaboard? I have suspicions that many of the issues I"m facing are due to mercury exposure which sort of slows me down some right now as it's a difficult problem to address while nursing... and I'd class as impossible (not wise) while pregnant.

ETA: And to address what Pat posted- I *do* believe that I have subclinical gluten intolerance, also likely caused by mercury.







I just stick my head in the sand sometimes.









Oh geeeezzzz! I totally forgot i posted here weeks ago. I just posted again lol!!! Apparently i get to much going that I CAN'T handle








Soooo to answer your questions
I have 1 small silver filling on the side of a molar that is very small.
I have lived in Arizona my entire life except for the past 2 years we live in Baltimore for 6 months out of the year, Why whats going on here with mercury?
I'm looking for a good ND. The one i'm currently seeing is not so great.
She says she can't address my adrenals because I'm nursing and doesn't use iodine for thyroid.
I'm on nature-throid at the moment.

Here's what I'm taking:
Dulse liquid drops for iodine
omega 3(nordic naturals)
multi
vit D drops when I remember








Siberian ginseng
Was taking natural calm for mag but don't like it. Need a different mag supp.
Selenium-brazil nuts
I was thinking of some supps DR. rons since I heard good things.

My throat has been felling strange the past 6 weeks. I feel pressure in my throat not sure if it's my thyroid or not. anyone else experience this. Is my thyroid searching for iodine..????


----------



## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
The mama became hyperthyroid after a stillbirth at 34 weeks. Then three subsequent miscarriages. The endo recommended radioactive iodine. She didn't go for that. She's seeing an ND, but is interested in informing herself.

I'm curious about the relationship of the baby's thyroid and her sudden hyper, which is diminishing. Your comment about subclinical hypo first is interesting.

Thanks, Pat

Baby's thyroid kicks in around 18 weeks, +/- a couple, I looked it up because I suddenly turned hypo when DS was around 16 weeks and I stressed some, but hoped he'd be okay. I went from fairly okay to feeling borderline dead during one weekend.

One of the big things about pregnancy is how nutritionally draining it is, it's huge. And add in a huge mental/emotional/spiritual drain, which IME is also a nutritional drain, that seems like it could be one too many stresses.

With the pregnancy losses, did someone do testing for antibodies and have the selenium-reducing-antibody counts discussion?


----------



## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Hashis/hypo here and wondering what those with the same have taken to noticably get antibodies down.

I'm so confused all the different causes of Hashis gluten,iodine deficiency, methylation(don't even know what that is). I developed hashis/hypothyroid after i had a baby(4 months PP)DD is now 13 months.
i need to read more in this thread theres so much









I've read of people supplementing selenium, 200mcg per day is the most typical amount, to reduce antibodies, but I was already taking this when I got my antibody testing done, so I don't know if I ever had antibodies, or if they'd just already come down.

It's not that all those are separate, distinct causes, I have issues with most of them. And it's up to each person to figure out which of these, or maybe all, are involved for themselves, and which they're going to address to reduce stress on their bodies, so that our bodies can start functioning properly again. That can sound stressful and involved, but it's really not so much, the learning curve is a bit steep at first, but doable, very doable.

Methylation is one way that our livers get rid of stuff we no longer need. We stick a methyl group on the end, think of it like putting a stick in a popsicle, and then you can pass it to someone else (in this case it can be excreted from your body). There are other chemical groups (besides methyl groups) that can be stuck on other things we don't need (which includes toxins like lead and mercury, but also stuff our bodies are done with, like breaking down estrogen or histamine or something like that).

http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/methyl.php
Different, more thorough description of methylation.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 

With the pregnancy losses, did someone do testing for antibodies and have the *selenium-reducing-antibody counts discussion*?

Will look this up. Haven't heard of it.

Thanks,

Pat


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I've read of people supplementing selenium, 200mcg per day is the most typical amount, to reduce antibodies, but I was already taking this when I got my antibody testing done, so I don't know if I ever had antibodies, or if they'd just already come down.

It's not that all those are separate, distinct causes, I have issues with most of them. And it's up to each person to figure out which of these, or maybe all, are involved for themselves, and which they're going to address to reduce stress on their bodies, so that our bodies can start functioning properly again. That can sound stressful and involved, but it's really not so much, the learning curve is a bit steep at first, but doable, very doable.

Methylation is one way that our livers get rid of stuff we no longer need. We stick a methyl group on the end, think of it like putting a stick in a popsicle, and then you can pass it to someone else (in this case it can be excreted from your body). There are other chemical groups (besides methyl groups) that can be stuck on other things we don't need (which includes toxins like lead and mercury, but also stuff our bodies are done with, like breaking down estrogen or histamine or something like that).

http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/methyl.php
Different, more thorough description of methylation.

ok thank you. So if your antibodies go down to a normal range does that mean you no longer have hashis?


----------



## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Will look this up. Haven't heard of it.

Thanks,

Pat

There's a study (more than one? at least one), they used a poor form of selenium, a selenite something, should've used l-selenomethionine.


----------



## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
ok thank you. So if your antibodies go down to a normal range does that mean you no longer have hashis?

Since antibody levels can go up and down, and whether you get a plain hypo diagnosis or a hashi's diagnosis is based on antibodies, it seems that that is just one aspect to help understand what's going on with your body. But if you ever see elevated antibodies, then I think looking at interrelated autoimmune issues is appropriate--both considering the possibility of stuff like Type 1 diabetes, celiac, others, but then also thinking about immune function and why your immune system is so out of whack. My 2 cents.

Mom61508--the mercury thing is for people like me, took me quite a while (understatement) and a great HCP to put things together, but my progression of enviro allergies, anxiety, depression, hypo and adrenal fatigue is classic for people who do not detoxify mercury and other heavy metals well. Not that everyone with those issues has mercury issues, but it's something to consider. Runs in my family--I knew the depression, hypo, allergies, etc ran in my family, but the underlying issue is that detoxification problems run in my family. We can get excess exposure (more than we can deal with) from the environment (either generally living in a high toxicity area) or specific situations (working in a dentist's office), or from our moms (my kids got this) or directly from amalgams in our mouths. So it's not everyone's issue, certainly, but since it's very treatable, and it has such wide-ranging health ramifications if it's not dealt with, I think it's worth considering (in general, not specifically aimed at you).

The big thing about amalgams is how your body deals with them--some folks with 10+ amalgams are fairly fine with them because their bodies handle it well, but since they are half mercury (half silver/tin/other stuff), even half of a small one is a whole lot if you personally don't excrete that stuff well. Or if your family doesn't, and you started, from birth, with more than most folks.

And my HCP was perfectly fine supporting my adrenals while I was nursing--she didn't recommend much, was quite conservative, but adrenal support was important. I'd consider finding someone else, many nursing moms here are getting adrenal support--makes you (me) into an irritable, so-and-so of a mother when you (I) feel really bad. Be careful with Dr. Ron's supps, some of them have alpha lipoic acid, it is a serious mobilizer of heavy metals, I'm taking it very carefully and at fairly low doses, to deal with my mercury and arsenic. Read labels carefully.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
I have lived in Arizona my entire life except for the past 2 years we live in Baltimore for 6 months out of the year, Why whats going on here with mercury?

Can't really answer any of your other questions, but re: the Eastern seaboard and mercury: for some reason, people on the Eastern seaboard have a higher mercury load than anywhere else in the continental US. Can't tell you why, that's all I really know.


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## dannic (Jun 14, 2005)

subbing. Can anyone explain to me the difference between armour and naturethroid? My nd has thrown both out as an option...DH is not happy about me being on a med...if they're both glandular's, what's the dif? Thanks!


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dannic* 
subbing. Can anyone explain to me the difference between armour and naturethroid? My nd has thrown both out as an option...DH is not happy about me being on a med...if they're both glandular's, what's the dif? Thanks!









Armour has corn it and naturethroid does not. That's the only difference that I'm aware of


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## Mama2Bug (Feb 18, 2005)

I am new to this thread, but you mamas seem like the right people to talk to. Ever since the birth of my DD (almost 5 years ago) I have had a million symptoms that something isn't right. I've had them all- crazy heavy periods or absent ones, acne then none, hair falling out like mad, sudden facial hair growth, exhaustion, visual disturbances (floaters and "fuzziness"), forgetfulness, hives, aches and pains and an inability to lose weight. I went to my GP (who said it was anxiety), my OB (who suspects PCOS), and a rheumatologist (who thought it might be fibromyalgia), a neurologist (who did a scan of my pituitary gland). I had blood drawn many, many times. Once I had some antibodies of some sort that sent me to the rheumatologist, but a second test came out normal. My thyroid tests came out "within normal ranges" over and over. I still suspected my thyroid.

I took some anxiety meds for a few months, though I didn't feel anxious or depressed. They did nothing and I stopped. That was two years ago. I've been on the pill for the past few years and that got my periods under control.

Finally, I got fed up with feeling like crap and went back to my family practitioner (whom our whole family loves, except for this thyroid thing) and got more blood tests. I don't really understand the results, but I'll post them here, in case one of you does:

T3, TOTAL 154 mcg/dL
T4 (THYROXINE), TOTAL 9.8 mcg/dL
THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES <10 IU/mL
THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODIES <20 IU/mL
TSH, 3RD GENERATION 4.00 mIU/L
FSH5.3 mIU/mL

There were also tests for vitamins and hormones (which all came out either normal or very good).

I don't know anything about the ranges for T3 and T4, but he said the "normal" range for TSH is between .5 and 5. We agreed that 4 might be high _for me_. He gave me a prescription for Cytomel at 25 mcg once a day. I am on my second day and I don't really know if I feel any different. I understand that it may take time to feel the effects though.

Does this sound familiar to anyone else? I am SO relived to finally be taken seriously, but I have no idea if this is a standard treatment or what the test results really mean. Can anyone help?


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sonrisa* 
Jacqueline-

Thank you for the response. Can I ask you how you take your meds and vitamins. I take my armour first thing in the am. Then I eat. When should I take by Vit B and well I have Nordic Naturals Omega 3's and CLO. If you don't mind what do you ladies with Hashimotos take and when???

With kindness, Abigayle

I have Hashis as well. Are you taking selenium-2 brazil nuts daily?
Usually hashis is linked to gluten sensitivity as well.
https://www.enterolab.com/StaticPages/Frame_Faq.htm
You read thru this thread there is a lot more info on hashis and gluten issues
Get some good magnesium too. I take stuff throughout the day.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Mama2Bug, your TSH is a lot higher than healthy, normal people. They should've tested free-T3 and free-T4, that's a lot more helpful then the total T3 and total T4.

I'm not very familiar with cytomel, is it a T3 thyroid med? The T4 thyroid meds need 6 weeks, IIRC, to get up to a consistent dosage in your body--they have a long half-life, so they keep increasing all that time. T3 is a lot shorter, but I'm not sure how long it would be to get a constant dose in your body. If it's a T3 med, I _thought_ typical dosing was 2-3x/day, you may want to read the product insert? Maybe I'm wrong.

When you re-test, you may want to ask for free-T3 and free-T4, you want both to be in the upper third of the reference range (that's where healthy, feeling good people are).

You may also want to peruse the last 5 pages or so of this thread, some of us have dealt with our thyroid issues with dietary changes and nutritional supplements. If you're interested in the possibility.

Blood testing for hormones can be hit-or-miss, for things like cortisol it needs to be compared to what time of day the sample was taken (and you really need 4x/day testing), and I'm not sure if the reference ranges for things like estrogen and what-not are normed appropriately. If they didn't take into account where in your cycle you are (pre- or post- ovulation) then the reference range is probably really wide and only catches people who are vastly out of balance. You could post to get ideas on those, some of the vitamins (like B12 and ferritin) can be off, and making you feel tired, even though they're in the reference range. May want a separate thread for that.


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## michelleklu (Aug 3, 2008)

Hi everyone,
I'm finally going to the doctor on Thursday to see if I can get checked for hypo after a counselor 3 years ago mentioned my lack of body hair, my OB mentioning hyp a year ago, and an optometrist mentioned eye pressure leading to glaucoma. They all asked if I had hypothyroidism and I never heard of it so I didn't get checked, then I was scared it'd be cancer and I'd have to stay confined to a hospital room so I put it off and I put if off. So, I'm scared. We're overseas and I won't be able to switch doctors if he isn't good. My only option would be to take my daughter and move back to California while my husband is here for another year. I'm still breastfeeding and read on the thread that Naturethroid is not compatible with breastfeeding. Should I opt for the synthetic? I'm going to push for all the tests on stopthethyroidmadness.com because I remember being "slightly anemic" during my high school days and I'm worried about adrenal fatigue.

I'm so worried.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *michelleklu* 
Hi everyone,
I'm finally going to the doctor on Thursday to see if I can get checked for hypo after a counselor 3 years ago mentioned my lack of body hair, my OB mentioning hyp a year ago, and an optometrist mentioned eye pressure leading to glaucoma. They all asked if I had hypothyroidism and I never heard of it so I didn't get checked, then I was scared it'd be cancer and I'd have to stay confined to a hospital room so I put it off and I put if off. So, I'm scared. We're overseas and I won't be able to switch doctors if he isn't good. My only option would be to take my daughter and move back to California while my husband is here for another year. I'm still breastfeeding and read on the thread that *Naturethroid is not compatible with breastfeeding.* Should I opt for the synthetic? I'm going to push for all the tests on stopthethyroidmadness.com because I remember being "slightly anemic" during my high school days and I'm worried about adrenal fatigue.

I'm so worried.









Uh... Wha? Where?
I was taking Naturethroid while breastfeeding and pregnant...

ETA: And adrenal fatigue should always be addressed along with/before a thyroid problem. One makes the other worse and vice versa.


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *michelleklu* 
Hi everyone,
I'm finally going to the doctor on Thursday to see if I can get checked for hypo after a counselor 3 years ago mentioned my lack of body hair, my OB mentioning hyp a year ago, and an optometrist mentioned eye pressure leading to glaucoma. They all asked if I had hypothyroidism and I never heard of it so I didn't get checked, then I was scared it'd be cancer and I'd have to stay confined to a hospital room so I put it off and I put if off. So, I'm scared. We're overseas and I won't be able to switch doctors if he isn't good. My only option would be to take my daughter and move back to California while my husband is here for another year. I'm still breastfeeding and read on the thread that Naturethroid is not compatible with breastfeeding. Should I opt for the synthetic? I'm going to push for all the tests on stopthethyroidmadness.com because I remember being "slightly anemic" during my high school days and I'm worried about adrenal fatigue.

I'm so worried.









Ya where did you find that naturethroid isn't compatible with Bf????
My ND knows I"m nursing and had me chose between that and Armour. I went with naturethroid because it doesn't have corn it/


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## mommyjamieof2 (Feb 17, 2006)

Free T3 1.9
Free T4 0.86
TSH 4.37

The "normal ranges" on the paper work

Free T3 1.8-4.2
Free T4 0.59-1.81
TSH 0.38-4.70

What I don't understand is how can the "normal" vary so much?

Progesterone 9.0
Testosterone 65
cortisol AM 20.28
Insulin 5.53

Estradiol 189
Alkaline Phosphatase 45

There are other numbers on the tests he did not sure if any of those will help in uderstanding my situation.

I was able to find out the levels I tested in 2007
3.05 TSH
0.86 T4
29% uptake of T3

This is when I started feeling lousy all the time. now I feel really lousy all the time.
Any ideas if any of these numbers are causing my problems?

Very irregular periods up to about 6 months
lumpy breasts
facial hair
mood swings
depression
extreme fatigue
acne
pain in lower back
headaches
Anxiety
bloating

He was thinking PCOS, fibrocystic, thyroid, pituatory. But said the tests were not suggestive of those problems and says I am a tired and depressed mom.

Also my babies were on the large size 10 lbs and almost 10 lbs


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## Purple Sage (Apr 23, 2007)

I have not been diagnosed with anything, but I'm working on getting some kind of medical assistance so that I can get tested. (My TSH was on the high end of normal when I was pregnant with ds 3 years ago, but I haven't been tested since.)

Right now I'm eliminating gluten (pretty much all grains, actually) and cutting down on carbs, and I'm losing weight. I'm also supplementing with iodine, magnesium, C, B-complex, and I think that's it. I still feel bad, still losing a LOT of hair (not just on my head, iykwim), still have muscle and joint aches, and still have a foggy head and fuzzy vision, and my thyroid is still visibly enlarged.

My question is, if I should get lucky and get a doctor's appointment that I can afford (







), should I go back to eating gluten and stop taking the supplements? Would that make any difference in my lab results? Because I would hate to go through all this trouble of seeing a doctor and then be told that it's all in my head. That's my biggest fear!


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Purple Sage, supps can definitely change your thyroid function, that's how I dealt with my hypothyroidism. I'm not hypo now. And gluten causes such stress in some people that it essentially runs through nutrients very quickly, causing a really high need (separate from the celiacs, where it destroys their ability to absorb any nutrients at all). Biggies for thyroid function are zinc, selenium, and iodine, and a lot of other things you mentioned play supporting roles.

Depending on the level you're supplementing at, it could take a while to drift back to bad enough for treatment--you know, that big gap many folks fall into, where their TSH is abnormal but not outside the reference range yet, but I think a lot depends on what's going on with you, individually, to see how long it would take.

Personally, to me, it looks like hypothyroidism is mostly due to a lack of nutrients (sometimes not enough intake, *oftentimes* coupled with abnormal stresses that aren't really feasible for our bodies to deal with)--obviously this is separate from folks who've had RAI, who have congenital hypothyroidism, the rather atypical situations like that. My opinion, based on my journey through this.

If you have muscle and joint aches, I've heard it's often associated with vitamin D deficiency, you could either supp and then get bloodwork (it often takes a while to get high enough to be healthy so you'd not necessarily be at a great part of the range even after some supplementation) or not supp and see where it is to start. Or you could supp and not test, but that's not as optimal (though I'm putting off testing for a while myself). The vitamin D council has discussion of supplement dosages.


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## Purple Sage (Apr 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Purple Sage, supps can definitely change your thyroid function, that's how I dealt with my hypothyroidism. I'm not hypo now. And gluten causes such stress in some people that it essentially runs through nutrients very quickly, causing a really high need (separate from the celiacs, where it destroys their ability to absorb any nutrients at all). Biggies for thyroid function are zinc, selenium, and iodine, and a lot of other things you mentioned play supporting roles.

Depending on the level you're supplementing at, it could take a while to drift back to bad enough for treatment--you know, that big gap many folks fall into, where their TSH is abnormal but not outside the reference range yet, but I think a lot depends on what's going on with you, individually, to see how long it would take.

Personally, to me, it looks like hypothyroidism is mostly due to a lack of nutrients (sometimes not enough intake, *oftentimes* coupled with abnormal stresses that aren't really feasible for our bodies to deal with)--obviously this is separate from folks who've had RAI, who have congenital hypothyroidism, the rather atypical situations like that. My opinion, based on my journey through this.

If you have muscle and joint aches, I've heard it's often associated with vitamin D deficiency, you could either supp and then get bloodwork (it often takes a while to get high enough to be healthy so you'd not necessarily be at a great part of the range even after some supplementation) or not supp and see where it is to start. Or you could supp and not test, but that's not as optimal (though I'm putting off testing for a while myself). The vitamin D council has discussion of supplement dosages.


Thank you for that information. I mainly want to get my thyroid tested because I think it is enlarged, and that concerns me. I also want some kind of "proof" (as if my symptoms aren't proof enough) that I can show dh so that he believes that this isn't all in my head. That's pathetic, I know, but there it is. He can see that my hair is falling out, so that helps.









I have been meaning to ask this...Is it normal to see your thyroid on your neck? I think mine is enlarged because I can see it quite clearly especially when I tilt my head back a little, and I don't notice it on other people (and I make sure to look at everyone's neck now to see if their thyroid is as prominent as mine, and it's not). But when I look up "goiter" on google, they only show pictures of extremely enlarged thyroids, and mine isn't that bad.

What you said about vitamin D deficiency causing muscle aches makes total sense. I've been getting a lot of vitamin D via sunlight lately, and I've noticed that I'm not as achy when I get sun several days in a row. It has been cloudy here for the last few days, and I've been getting aches for the last couple of days. I will look into a vitamin D test if I get my healthcare situation straightened out....and if not, then I'll just treat myself the best way I can.


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## mommyjamieof2 (Feb 17, 2006)

Can you guys help me understand the dif between hypo and hyper please

My MIL started at 0.02 in 2007 now regulated with meds at 1.562. She says she is hypo is that right? or is she hyper? Can you be hyper with hypo symptoms?

Mine is 4.37 tsh so we are on opposite ends but with similar symptoms.

Updated: She thinks they told her the wrong number because she does not ever remember hearing that low of a number. She is hypo and says she has always been 3 and 4's


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Purple Sage* 
Thank you for that information. I mainly want to get my thyroid tested because I think it is enlarged, and that concerns me. I also want some kind of "proof" (as if my symptoms aren't proof enough) that I can show dh so that he believes that this isn't all in my head. That's pathetic, I know, but there it is. He can see that my hair is falling out, so that helps.









I have been meaning to ask this...Is it normal to see your thyroid on your neck? I think mine is enlarged because I can see it quite clearly especially when I tilt my head back a little, and I don't notice it on other people (and I make sure to look at everyone's neck now to see if their thyroid is as prominent as mine, and it's not). But when I look up "goiter" on google, they only show pictures of extremely enlarged thyroids, and mine isn't that bad.

What you said about vitamin D deficiency causing muscle aches makes total sense. I've been getting a lot of vitamin D via sunlight lately, and I've noticed that I'm not as achy when I get sun several days in a row. It has been cloudy here for the last few days, and I've been getting aches for the last couple of days. I will look into a vitamin D test if I get my healthcare situation straightened out....and if not, then I'll just treat myself the best way I can.

Mine became enlarged when DD was 4m old that's how i found out i had hypo/hashis. It's not normal to be able to see your thyroid. After starting hormone it took about 6-8 weeks for it to go down. By the way thyroid hormone isn't expensive. I know your short on $ but if you can't see a doctor maybe try Dr. Rons thyroid supp? Just an idea


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyjamieof2* 
Can you guys help me understand the dif between hypo and hyper please

My MIL started at 0.02 in 2007 now regulated with meds at 1.562. She says she is hypo is that right? or is she hyper? Can you be hyper with hypo symptoms?

Mine is 4.37 tsh so we are on opposite ends but with similar symptoms.

Higher TSH=hypo
lower=hyper


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## Purple Sage (Apr 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Mine became enlarged when DD was 4m old that's how i found out i had hypo/hashis. It's not normal to be able to see your thyroid. After starting hormone it took about 6-8 weeks for it to go down. By the way thyroid hormone isn't expensive. I know your short on $ but if you can't see a doctor maybe try Dr. Rons thyroid supp? Just an idea










Thank you!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Normal TSH is Below 3*

Quote:

In the Fall of 2002, the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists (AACE) announced that what was normal the year before, thyroid-wise, would now be considered abnormal.

According to the AACE, doctors had typically been basing their diagnoses on the "normal" range for the TSH test. The typical normal reference range levels at most laboratories ran in the 0.5 to 5.0 range.

The new guidelines narrowed the range for acceptable thyroid function, and the AACE was encouraging doctors to consider thyroid treatment for patients who test outside the target TSH reference range of 0.3 to 3.0, a far narrower range. AACE believed that use of the new range would result in proper diagnosis for millions of Americans who suffer from a mild thyroid disorder, but have gone untreated.
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/testsfor...a/newrange.htm
Not that I believe TSH numbers catch everyone with thyroid disorders. Nor does it mean that you need thyroid hormones... your thyroid runs on nutrients which are more likely to be deficient as TanyaLopez has been posting: selenium, iodine, vitamin A, vitamin D, tyrosine, etc.

This list of symptoms is a much better indicator of how your metabolic rate is doing than blood tests.

*Online Questionnaire for Thyroid Function (Hypothyroidism)*http://www.1-thyroid.com/lowthyroid.html

And Free T3 and T4 is rarely tested by mainstream doctors and again, are better indicators of what is actually being utilized by the body.

*mommyjamieof2:*

Lumpy breasts are fibrocystic breast disease, aka iodine deficiency. See "The Iodine Thread"

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Purple Sage* 
Is it normal to see your thyroid on your neck? I think mine is enlarged because I can see it quite clearly especially when I tilt my head back a little, and I don't notice it on other people (and I make sure to look at everyone's neck now to see if their thyroid is as prominent as mine, and it's not). But when I look up "goiter" on google, they only show pictures of extremely enlarged thyroids, and mine isn't that bad.


No. It's the start of a goiter. It means you are not taking in enough iodine and the thyroid is enlarging to try to capture more. Goitrogens (meaning causes goiter) are endemic in modern life and including soy, fluoride, chlorine, mercury, et al. Trace amounts of iodine in iodized salt are paltry compared to the the amount of iodine that the thyroid needs to store and use in order to function properly... and it certainly cannot compete with large amounts of goitrogens.

See "The Iodine Thread".


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## Purple Sage (Apr 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
*Normal TSH is Below 3*

Not that I believe TSH numbers catch everyone with thyroid disorders. Nor does it mean that you need thyroid hormones... your thyroid runs on nutrients which are more likely to be deficient as TanyaLopez has been posting: selenium, iodine, vitamin A, vitamin D, tyrosine, etc.

This list of symptoms is a much better indicator of how your metabolic rate is doing than blood tests.

*Online Questionnaire for Thyroid Function (Hypothyroidism)*http://www.1-thyroid.com/lowthyroid.html

And Free T3 and T4 is rarely tested by mainstream doctors and again, are better indicators of what is actually being utilized by the body.

*mommyjamieof2:*

Lumpy breasts are fibrocystic breast disease, aka iodine deficiency. See "The Iodine Thread"

No. It's the start of a goiter. It means you are not taking in enough iodine and the thyroid is enlarging to try to capture more. Goitrogens (meaning causes goiter) are endemic in modern life and including soy, fluoride, chlorine, mercury, et al. Trace amounts of iodine in iodized salt are paltry compared to the the amount of iodine that the thyroid needs to store and use in order to function properly... and it certainly cannot compete with large amounts of goitrogens.

See "The Iodine Thread".

Hmm...my TSH was 3.2 back in 2006, and my doctor (OB) said it was "borderline" and wanted to retest when I wasn't pregnant.

I just started taking iodine (Lugol's solution - about 25 mg a day) after reading The Iodine Thread, plus some other supps. I really appreciate all the knowledge you and others are sharing on these threads!


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## MoonWillow (May 24, 2006)

Allright...mod hat is _off_.

I have always shied (sp) away from this thread because its entirely overwhelming, especially because I am so darn exhausted.

I still have not read the whole thread so forgive me for jumping in here without the obvious knowledge that has already been presented. I don't have it in me to get through the whole thing and its probably due to a thyroid issue.

Can anyone help me with a semi-short 101 version?

I am _so_ overwhelmed at the thought of having to learn all of this.

The panel that I had done about a year ago was as follows:

*T3, 124
Free T4, 1.1
TSH, 1.77*

They said it was "normal".


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Moonwillow, you need free T3 as that is the *only* active form of thyroid hormone. TSH only does not provide an accurate picture, as that is not the only thing which can go wrong. I just learned preferably by the tracer dialysis method as described in my next post.

There are also nutrients which the thyroid runs on: iodine, magnesium, vitamin A/D, selenium. A deficiency in any of these, which is extremely common - all studies on thse nutrients show most people are deficient - and can effect function of hormones.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

As usual with information researched by the WAPF, Dr. Dommisse's article in current _Wise Traditions_ just blows me away.

He described 4 different kinds of thyroid malfunction. Optimizing free T3 and free T4 is just as important as looking at the TSH. You can have a problem with converting T4 into T3 (the only active hormone). If you are given Synthoid, Levoxyl, Levothroid, Unithroid... the primary problem will never be addressed, even though your TSH will drop.

In fact, a low TSH does *not necessarily* mean your thyroid is normal b/c you can also have a problem where the pituitary doesn't excrete enough TSH which makes that number look normal. That is why the free T3/T4 tests are so important. And he recommends the dialysis method of blood testing for those as the most accurate. It is widely available and covered by ins. but not usually employed. Direct Dialysis for Free T4, Tracer Dialysis for Free T3.

*And also the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry based on several large epidemiological studies would put the upper limit of TSH at 2.5 (based on hundreds of thyroid and lab experts around the world, Nov 2002).*

And this is based on primary hypothyroidism, only one kind. If other 3 kinds of hypothyroidism (problems with T4/T3 conversion, secondary or problems with pituitary gland, tertiary or low TRH -thryotropin releasing hormone in hypothalamus) exist *then TSH should be less than 1.0.*

He also states that other top researchers, Carol Spencer and president of and Leonard Wartofsky of The Endocrine Society, recommend less than 2.0.

The more I read about this the more I think if you still don't feel well something is still wrong! And any doctor who says you are normal just doesn't know the answer.

If you are taking T3 is it important to take it at least 2x/day, do you usually take Armour, Naturthyroid several times per day?

Dr. Dommisse articles and interviews at About.com:Thyroid
http://thyroid.about.com/sitesearch....oid&TopNode=99


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## linguistmama (Sep 25, 2006)

I saw tyrosine mentioned a couple of times in this thread with the supplement list. Anyone know more about it? Is there a good food source? What's a good dosage etc?


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## Junegoddess (Apr 17, 2007)

JaneS, or anyone else who knows... my mother has shown signs of hypothyroid for YEARS. Several years ago she was tested, and everything was "in range." I bullied her into getting tested again, this time wanting specifics, and here's what her numbers are:
TSH 1.07 good range .40-4.10
Free T4 .09 .9-1.8
Ferritin 51 13-140
T3 Free 3.6 1.8-4.2

Just looking at that, novice that I am, looks like her Free T4 is too low. No clue what the implications there might be. I'm pretty sure she didn't get the dialysis method of testing done. So, what can we know from these numbers, even if they are somewhat the wrong tests?


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## FireWithin (Apr 29, 2004)

My new md is sending me to get some tests. I just wanted some clarification. I thought I remembered here that the saliva test is best (or is that for adrenals?) ugh, now that it is my turn to figure this out, I'm getting all confused.
I am getting bloodwork done (I believe). The paper says testing TSH, T4F, T3F. Another test is antibody, thyroglobulin. Also, thyroperoxidase antibodies. The first one looks like free T4 and free T3.

I'm getting quite a few other tests as well.

ferritin
metabolic panel, comprehensive
lipid profile
vit D (both calcifediol and calciferol, and dihydroxy???)
insulin (last time I got it I didn't know I was supposed to be fasting!!! duh!)
CBC with differential

I think it's time for me to go back and read the earlier pages here.

Oh yeah, she felt my thyroid and said it was enlarged.

I'm excited to have found a HCP who know more than I do. Yet, she still has an md slant (no matter how many crunchy, cool books on her bookshelf). I am worried she won't consider iodine. She said if my adrenals were weak she would definately want to put me on something. I don't want to immediately feel pressured to go on thyroid meds.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Mammo2Sammo, I've always read blood tests are appropriate for thyroid stuff. For adrenal stuff, you want to test 4x/day, and you could do either blood or saliva, but clearly saliva's more convenient unless you have a phlebotomist in the family.

As for thyroid meds, you can definitely go off them after being on, it's not a long-term commitment, and so the decision is really whether you're comfortable using them short-term. I don't know of any downsides, well, you can't see as clearly what progress you're making on thyroid stuff (though if you start healing the things your thyroid needs to make more thyroid hormone, you'll probably have to taper down your thyroid supp, else you'll feel hyper) but if you have a lot of things to work on and need to feel better to do that, then it's a reasonable way to go.

Looks like a reasonable list of things to look at, the thyroid tests look good.


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## FireWithin (Apr 29, 2004)

thanks Tanya. I'm excited to start this process.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

:


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

So I got my thyroid test results today (I've been feeling pretty good recently, btw, not dragging my butt tired, not wired, not too hot, not too cold, not losing much hair etc)...

TSH: 1.32 (Range: 0.4-4.6)
FT3: 3.62 (Range: 2.4-4.2)
FT4: 0.81 (Range: 0.61-1.27)

So, the FT4 is still a little low for my liking, but a lot better than it was in March when we last tested (0.59). I almost want to increase my Armour by another 1/4 grain to see if that puts me in a really happy place, iykwim, but I think I'm going to leave it as is for now.


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## CHoney (Dec 30, 2008)

I have hyperthyroid, but my doctor isn't doing anything about it.

Brief story: I lost weight rapidly postpartum. I went down to 100lbs, and I'm 5'6. I finally gained a few pounds, but am still at least 10lbs underweight. I was feeling depressed, anxious, angry, irritable, and had heart palipatations. I felt like I was going crazy! My doctor thought it was Hashi's, and now thinks it's postpartum thyroiditis. I'm 11 months postpartum. Someone else said I have Graves Disease.

I went to an acupuncturist and my mood symptoms have improved. My TSH is still 0.02, and I have a high t4 20.6.

Are there tests for Graves that don't require weaning (I can't pump)? I don't want the radioactive test for Graves.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CHoney* 
Are there tests for Hashi's, or for Graves that don't require weaning (I can't pump)? I don't want the radioactive test for Graves.

I can see my doctor in a couple weeks. I was going to ask her if I can start taking PTU if my t4 is still really high.

The test for Hashi's and Grave's is a blood test. They test for the antibodies. RAI (radioactive iodine) is a "treatment" for hyperT.... The iodine is taken up into the thyroid and kills it, basically. If you're lucky, it doesn't kill it too much or entirely and you don't have to take thyroid meds for the rest of your life.
I would look at ithyroid.com and seek a knowledgeable naturopath or holistic doctor asap.
That's my two cents.


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## CHoney (Dec 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
The test for Hashi's and Grave's is a blood test. They test for the antibodies.

Thank you. I will definitely ask my doctor to test for those. I can't remember if she did or not (she's been on holidays for the past 2 months).

I went to yet another doctor (I'm in Canada so it's thankfully covered) and he said I would need to stop breastfeeding and have the radioactive uptake scan. I didn't want to do that, so I've been lying low.

I'm so tired of feeling miserable! I just want something to make me feel better! I feel so bad for my DH and DS because it's been a very rough 11 months. Somedays I feel great and I think "This is what life is supposed to be like, I CAN handle being a mother and enjoy it!" But most days I feel tired and depressed.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CHoney* 
Thank you. I will definitely ask my doctor to test for those. I can't remember if she did or not (she's been on holidays for the past 2 months).

I went to yet another doctor (I'm in Canada so it's thankfully covered) and he said I would need to stop breastfeeding and have the radioactive uptake scan. I didn't want to do that, so I've been lying low.

I'm so tired of feeling miserable! I just want something to make me feel better! I feel so bad for my DH and DS because it's been a very rough 11 months. Somedays I feel great and I think "This is what life is supposed to be like, I CAN handle being a mother and enjoy it!" But most days I feel tired and depressed.

Ah. Did they find a nodule when they palpated your thyroid? The RAI scan is usually to determine what the cause of a nodule is and whether it's "hot" or not, I think. African Queen probably knows the most about it on this board, so I"ll defer to her.


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## widemouthedfrog (Mar 9, 2006)

choney, I did another antibody test for diabetes and actually paid for it, so it is possible to get them in Canada, even if your hcp doesn't agree. That said, I'd argue my way through the fact that I would NOT want to stop breastfeeding to do a test so they would pay for the antibody one.

I did get the antibody test when I was diagnosed, but I have type 1 diabetes, so they assumed that I would have autoimmune thyroid problems.


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## CHoney (Dec 30, 2008)

No, they didn't find a nodule. They wanted the radioactive uptake for Graves I believe.

widemouthedfrog - I will make sure my antibodies are checked. Thank you. I'm going to see a new doctor on Monday and have my fingers crossed he can do something for me.


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## inkedmamajama (Jan 3, 2003)

subbing


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## hobbsandbean (Sep 20, 2008)

Okay, it looks like you all know everything, maybe you can help me.










I just had a bunch of bloodwork done (feeling super run down, achy and exhausted) and my TSH was .92 and the Free T4 was .8 - do both of these seem low? They are in the normal range, but I'm still wondering. I thought if one was low, one was high?

TIA!


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## gardenmom (Apr 9, 2003)

Just a heads up for everyone. Sorry if this has already been discussed. It looks like ALL of the thyroid products (natural dessicated) are unavailable or nearly gone due to shortage (though I found an article that says it may be that the FDA is screwing with the supply and/or licensing of the products). I went to refill my script and was told they are on "national backorder". Here are some relevant links. Stock up and/or get your refills before your local supply is gone.

This is old news:
http://www.ashp.org/Import/PRACTICEA...in.aspx?id=459

article on About re the FDA and dessicated thyroid products:
http://thyroid.about.com/b/2009/08/1...ure-throid.htm

Armour's site:
http://www.armourthyroid.com/


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## nataliachick7 (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
As usual with information researched by the WAPF, Dr. Dommisse's article in current _Wise Traditions_ just blows me away.

He described 4 different kinds of thyroid malfunction. Optimizing free T3 and free T4 is just as important as looking at the TSH. You can have a problem with converting T4 into T3 (the only active hormone). If you are given Synthoid, Levoxyl, Levothroid, Unithroid... the primary problem will never be addressed, even though your TSH will drop.

In fact, a low TSH does *not necessarily* mean your thyroid is normal b/c you can also have a problem where the pituitary doesn't excrete enough TSH which makes that number look normal. That is why the free T3/T4 tests are so important. And he recommends the dialysis method of blood testing for those as the most accurate. It is widely available and covered by ins. but not usually employed. Direct Dialysis for Free T4, Tracer Dialysis for Free T3.

*And also the National Academy of Clinical Biochemistry based on several large epidemiological studies would put the upper limit of TSH at 2.5 (based on hundreds of thyroid and lab experts around the world, Nov 2002).*

And this is based on primary hypothyroidism, only one kind. If other 3 kinds of hypothyroidism (problems with T4/T3 conversion, secondary or problems with pituitary gland, tertiary or low TRH -thryotropin releasing hormone in hypothalamus) exist *then TSH should be less than 1.0.*

He also states that other top researchers, Carol Spencer and president of and Leonard Wartofsky of The Endocrine Society, recommend less than 2.0.

The more I read about this the more I think if you still don't feel well something is still wrong! And any doctor who says you are normal just doesn't know the answer.

If you are taking T3 is it important to take it at least 2x/day, do you usually take Armour, Naturthyroid several times per day?

Dr. Dommisse articles and interviews at About.com:Thyroid
http://thyroid.about.com/sitesearch....oid&TopNode=99

wow thanks for this info. MY TSH is a 2.98. I feel awful and my doc thinks my thyroid is fine







And he is an alternative medicine doctor, so i am at a loss.


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

DD TSH is at a 2.31. I'm keep coming across different numbers as to what is normal.

What do you all think?


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## FrannieP (Sep 11, 2007)

nataliachick7:

Quote:

MY TSH is a 2.98. I feel awful and my doc thinks my thyroid is fine And he is an alternative medicine doctor, so i am at a loss.
mom61508:

Quote:

DD TSH is at a 2.31. I'm keep coming across different numbers as to what is normal.

What do you all think?
There's more to consider than just the TSH - and imo, anything above 2.0 - especially with symptoms present indicates a thyroid imbalance.
Read this - it explains it well:
Thyroid Test Results

fp


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## nataliachick7 (Apr 3, 2007)

Thank you frannie.

Anyone ever heard of Reverse t3? Mine shows a 37 and should be between 11-32.

I have a doc appt tomorrow to try to convince him i need something. This is wiping out my savings because i dont have insurance.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nataliachick7* 
Thank you frannie.

Anyone ever heard of Reverse t3? Mine shows a 37 and should be between 11-32.

I have a doc appt tomorrow to try to convince him i need something. This is wiping out my savings because i dont have insurance.









RT3 is a form of T3 which tells your pituitary to slow down on the TSH production.
How are your TSH, Free T4 & Free T3?


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## nataliachick7 (Apr 3, 2007)

TSH is 2.98
t4 free 1.2 range (08-1.8)
t3 free 316 (range 230-420)
t3 reverse 37

According to Dr Mercola, anything above a 2 TSH now is considered abnormal. And i feel like garbage!!! Have felt this way for years.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hobbsandbean* 
Okay, it looks like you all know everything, maybe you can help me.









I just had a bunch of bloodwork done (feeling super run down, achy and exhausted) and my TSH was .92 and the Free T4 was .8 - do both of these seem low? They are in the normal range, but I'm still wondering. I thought if one was low, one was high?

TIA!

I'd guess adrenals, have you checked out The Adrenal thread? Achy can also be partially being very low in vitamin D (which doesn't rule out adrenal issues, vitD and adrenals end up being chemically related). But working on vitD can help with achiness and then you can focus on adrenals (and _why_ your adrenals are worn down, if that's what's going on).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nataliachick7* 
wow thanks for this info. MY TSH is a 2.98. I feel awful and my doc thinks my thyroid is fine







And he is an alternative medicine doctor, so i am at a loss.

Don't give up. Thing is, there are great pediatricians (to use an example) and pathetic ones, and there are great alternative HCPs and less-great ones. And sometimes there are ones that just aren't a good fit for you, but are a good fit for someone else.

I'd say keep networking to find someone who listens well, ideally who's dealt with someone with issues like yours, but mostly someone that people recommend highly and listens well.


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## nataliachick7 (Apr 3, 2007)

The only results i really get when looking for alternative care doctors are chiropractors. Do chiros treat thyroid problems? Can they prescribe things?
How else can you find a hollistic MD? Are DO's good for thyroid problems? Should i look for an endo?


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nataliachick7* 
The only results i really get when looking for alternative care doctors are chiropractors. Do chiros treat thyroid problems? Can they prescribe things?
How else can you find a hollistic MD? Are DO's good for thyroid problems? Should i look for an endo?

Personally I wouldn't go the endo route. Lots of alternative HCPs have good approaches for thyroid stuff, some chiros will, some DOs would be good, I think my acupuncturist would've been helpful if that had been my biggest complaint when I went to her. Based on my limited experience, the knowledge and experience of the provider is a bigger factor than which particular type of healthcare they went into.

Places I've asked: midwives may know alternative HCPs, any local yahoo groups? (AP, babywearing, homeschooling, like that), a local native nutrition yahoo group may have ideas (Weston Price folks, but regardless of your feelings on that, IME the people on the list tend to be fairly alternative in their approach to health care), local holistic moms group?, obviously friends who recommend their HCPs, and the Tribes section here at MDC. A recommendation from someone at a HFS?

Yes, I've spent some time looking for HCPs.


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## nataliachick7 (Apr 3, 2007)

thank you tanya!

While i wait to find a decent doctor, does anyone treat themselves with natural thyroid medications like this? http://www.nutri-meds.com/thyroid_supplements_s/33.htm

or this:

http://www.drrons.com/thyroid-adrena...glandulars.htm

Do they work?


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## nataliachick7 (Apr 3, 2007)




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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

So my thyroid is swelling again







I'm so bummed. Don't know what to do!!!!


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## subtlycrunchy (Jul 29, 2006)

Really liking the thyroid articles at Women to Women -- http://www.womentowomen.com/hypothyroidism/foods-naturalthyroidhealth.aspx. Anyone do this program?


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## nataliachick7 (Apr 3, 2007)

Does anyone by their armour/westhroid from this website?

http://www.biogenesis-antiaging.com/...duct_info.html

This was listed on Dr Teitelbaum's website, author of "From fatigued to fantastic"

Just wondering if its legit?


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## linguistmama (Sep 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *subtlycrunchy* 
Really liking the thyroid articles at Women to Women -- http://www.womentowomen.com/hypothyroidism/foods-naturalthyroidhealth.aspx. Anyone do this program?

Interesting, I've been wondering if my iron is a little low and haven't seen this possible connection before.


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## linguistmama (Sep 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nataliachick7* 
Does anyone by their armour/westhroid from this website?

http://www.biogenesis-antiaging.com/...duct_info.html

This was listed on Dr Teitelbaum's website, author of "From fatigued to fantastic"

Just wondering if its legit?

It says it's out of stock. Did someone see your post and snap it up?


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## nataliachick7 (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *linguistmama* 
It says it's out of stock. Did someone see your post and snap it up?









LOL DIDNT see that!

I would still love to hear about if anyone has success with Nutri-meds?? Im waiting for my order in the mail...


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## FireWithin (Apr 29, 2004)

So I got my thyroid results back and it looks fine, my doctor said everything looks find, including my liver, kidney function and my chemistry panel. I do want to find out my D levels.

Here are the specifics:
TSH - .92
T3, free - 1.41
T3, free - 3.53

cholesterol : 135
HDL: 53
LDL: 64

I've been trying for the past year to increase my cholesterol and it hasn't budged. Years past it was down to 119 (and I was congratulated by my doctor







) So I know that this is a clue for me.

Do you think I should get my adrenals tested?

I know my iodine levels are low (skin patch test), and that my thyroid is a little enlarged. I'm just not sure where to go from here.


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## FireWithin (Apr 29, 2004)

Bump!

I also want to add that my basal temps have in years past been low - 96 degrees. I'm going to test myself in the next couple of mornings.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mammo2Sammo* 
So I got my thyroid results back and it looks fine, my doctor said everything looks find, including my liver, kidney function and my chemistry panel. I do want to find out my D levels.

Here are the specifics:
TSH - .92
T3, free - 1.41
T3, free - 3.53

cholesterol : 135
HDL: 53
LDL: 64

I've been trying for the past year to increase my cholesterol and it hasn't budged. Years past it was down to 119 (and I was congratulated by my doctor







) So I know that this is a clue for me.

Do you think I should get my adrenals tested?

I know my iodine levels are low (skin patch test), and that my thyroid is a little enlarged. I'm just not sure where to go from here.

Could you include the ranges for the freeT3 and freeT4? I always forget, and I'm not sure they're the same for all the different labs.

Good job increasing your cholesterol, but still, really not good. Mine was 138, DH was 142. The one thing we have in common is worn down adrenals. For me, it wasn't worth actually testing because I can tell, symptomatically, close enough to which stage I'm in, and I know things I can/should/sorta am doing to improve that.

Here's the link with the graphs of the 7 stages that I find most helpful...

http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI%201%20.html

Stage 5 is a pretty common stage for people who realize wow, I'm really not feeling good, to be in, but that's not universal. Can you tell where you think you are? Cause with the physical and situational stresses you're under, I can't imagine healthy adrenals (plus with cholesterol that low, it sorta goes together).

And BBTs in the 96s are not normal and healthy. I'd say that alone is enough to know your thyroid is not functioning well, regardless of the reference range (you want to be in the upper third of the ref range for the free's). I was in the 96s a couple years ago, occasionally I'd get a high 95 reading. If you can't find a doc (or don't want to supplement thyroid hormone), I'm not sure if it'll work for you, but I took dosages of some vits and minerals based on the dosages at ithyroid.com. If I did it again, I wouldn't do the whole list, probably a good B-complex, vitC to bowel tolerance (also good for adrenals) despite what John on ithyroid says about vitC, vitD to get you to a good level, probably CLO, and zinc, selenium, and some iodine (depends on your response--I did it while nursing, not sure if it caused problems or not, it can mobilize metals, I didn't have any negative symptoms but that's not a guarantee it didn't cause issues for DS). Maybe manganese too, plus whatever magnesium and maybe cal you're already taking (if you are).

You eat a lot better than I did back then, but the a) magnitude of deficiencies I was dealing with, and b) the inefficiencies that go along with mercury (absorbing nutrients, utilizing them properly) make the high doses reasonable IMO. I'm giving the kids a LOT of zinc and I'm finally seeing little symptoms go away, but the dosage is far more than healthy, normal kids could handle. So in retrospect, the dosages that ithyroid suggests (and they worked for me, took about 2 weeks to feel better) aren't unreasonable IMO.

That said--some folks have a bad reaction starting thyroid support (either vit/min or synthroid/armour/what-have-you) before adrenal support. I don't think it was a problem for me, but I still didn't feel great, and it was only one part of the work involved in really feeling well. But hey, it was really nice to be able to think again. That fuzzy-headed feeling is a real bummer, makes getting through life so darn hard.


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## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

I was diagnosed recently with hypothyroid. My TSH was at 5.9 and I've been having symptoms of fatigue and a very very irregular period (it has gone from being months a part to be very ontime except lasting for 2 weeks).


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## mrsteapot (Dec 21, 2006)

Okay, so I just got told I have Thyroiditis (chronic). And to moniter my levels periodically. I saw a Japanese dr out in town here so I haven't heard from my pcm yet. But my understanding is that he thought my thyroid function would contiune to deteriorate until I need medication. I think.
I had my medical record for a few days and so I looked up all the previous thyroid tests I had and I wrote down todays numbers.
Here is what I've got:
9/97 FT4= 0.86 (0.76-1.79) NG/DL
TSH = 2.61 (.32-5.0) MIU/ML
I'm not sure if it means anything but my son was about 2 and a half at this point.

2/00 FT4= 0.70 L (0.76-1.79) NG/DL
TSH = 1.44 (.35-5.50) MIU/ML
I was pregnant with my second son when this one was done,not sure why.

11/06 TSH 1.35 (.34-5.60) UIU/ML
This one was done as part of my post partum check with my first daughter.

6/08 TSH 2.97 (0.30-4.50) UIU/ML
This was part of my yearly check up, about a month before I got pregnant with my second daughter.
I also had blood work done at my PP check up this past July, but I don't know where those numbers were they were not in my record. But the dr also noticed that my thyroid was enlarged (I had noticed it myself) and requested the blood work he suspected postpartum thyroiditis, which is what lead to my seeing the dr out in town. He did an ultra sound, I don't have any large masses but I do have several smaller growths (nodules?) and my thyroid is definaltly "inflamed".
Here are today's numbers:
FT3 3.14 (1.71 - 3.71) pg/ml
FT4 0.82 (0.70 - 1.48) ng/dl
TSH 1.43 (0.35 - 4.94) uIU/ml
TPO 8.3 (upper level 0.3) U/ml = this one is the antibodies. He pointed it out and said it was elevated. To me this looks very elevated. But then he seemed to say it wasn't. AAAAHHHHH!!!!
Can anyone make heads or tails out of all of this?
Any advice on what to take? Would it be a good idea to take brewers yeast? I am breast feeding (duh, right? she is only 4.5 months old, and I plan to breast feed at least a year, if not longer depending on her). What impact does that have on all of this?
feeling a bit















Thanks for your help


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrsteapot* 
TPO 8.3 (upper level 0.3) U/ml = this one is the antibodies. He pointed it out and said it was elevated. To me this looks very elevated. But then he seemed to say it wasn't. AAAAHHHHH!!!!
Can anyone make heads or tails out of all of this?
Any advice on what to take? Would it be a good idea to take brewers yeast? I am breast feeding (duh, right? she is only 4.5 months old, and I plan to breast feed at least a year, if not longer depending on her). What impact does that have on all of this?
feeling a bit















Thanks for your help









Okay, so it sounds/looks like Hashimoto's thyroiditis, correct? (Antibodies mean autoimmune so Hashi's or Grave's to my understanding and by your numbers, I'm guessing Hashi's.)
Yes, the antibodies are elevated. Very elevated? Um. Well. I guess that depends on perspective. My antibodies came back in the thousands so my perspective's a little skewed.
I would suggest selenium as the supplement to take. It has been shown to significantly decrease antibody counts and that's what you want. The higher the antibodies, the more damage your thyroid is getting and the sooner you will need treatment (and more of it).
Do you have any amalgam, "silver", fillings? Mercury has been shown to cause an increase in antibody counts- probably because it eats up selenium like there's no tomorrow. If you do have amalgam fillings, I would additionally suggest zinc supplements as zinc has been shown to bind to mercury and thus spare some selenium.
You will also want to start supporting your adrenals. You need a good vitamin C supplement for this as well as a good B complex. Alternatively, you could eat raw liver. Many here eat it in the form of frozen liver "pills". And speaking of foods as supplements, many eat 2 Brazil nuts daily for the selenium.
Hope that helps a little.

ETA: You may want to check out stopthethyroidmadness.com and ithyroid.com as well.


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## mrsteapot (Dec 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Okay, so it sounds/looks like Hashimoto's thyroiditis, correct? (Antibodies mean autoimmune so Hashi's or Grave's to my understanding and by your numbers, I'm guessing Hashi's.)
Yes, the antibodies are elevated. Very elevated? Um. Well. I guess that depends on perspective. My antibodies came back in the thousands so my perspective's a little skewed.

WHEW!! not for you, but WHEW!! okay I'll go with slightly elevated









Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I would suggest selenium as the supplement to take. It has been shown to significantly decrease antibody counts and that's what you want. The higher the antibodies, the more damage your thyroid is getting and the sooner you will need treatment (and more of it).

That is kinda what I was thinking, why wait around until there is a boat load of damage? If we (I) deal with this now, I can probably correct it with suplements.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Do you have any amalgam, "silver", fillings? Mercury has been shown to cause an increase in antibody counts- probably because it eats up selenium like there's no tomorrow. If you do have amalgam fillings, I would additionally suggest zinc supplements as zinc has been shown to bind to mercury and thus spare some selenium.

I'm 41, do I have amalgam fillings!! LOL!! I'm actually going in next week to get a tooth fixed.







I've been looking for zinc.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
You will also want to start supporting your adrenals. You need a good vitamin C supplement for this as well as a good B complex. Alternatively, you could eat raw liver. Many here eat it in the form of frozen liver "pills". And speaking of foods as supplements, many eat 2 Brazil nuts daily for the selenium.
Hope that helps a little.

ETA: You may want to check out stopthethyroidmadness.com and ithyroid.com as well.









Well finding things in food form where I am right now is not likely to happen unless it is common as dirt,







Thanks for the starting points, I'll check those links too.


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## FireWithin (Apr 29, 2004)

thanks for your insight Tanya - I will contact my HCP to get the ranges.


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## mrsteapot (Dec 21, 2006)

I found some selinium when I went shopping yesterday (no brazil nuts or zinc), 200mcg, I took one last nightright after dinner and I took one this morning right after breakfast. I just noticed I'm feeling better. Seriously? That fast???
I've got the baby asleep so I need to run and take a shower, but I'll be back with what all I have found to take and some questions about what else to take. Thank you all!


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## LessTraveledBy (Feb 9, 2005)

Hi everyone... Hoping for some opinions.

I have hypo and have been taking Armour for almost 6 months. When prescribing Armour, the doc told us to stop TTC until my levels got better. Not that it mattered much, anyway, as I discoved my hypo when trying to figure out why I was sufferig from secondary infertility. (Dd is 4.5.)

Here is the question... What sort of labs would you dare TTC with? Less than a month ago I got labwork done and had gone from hypo to hyper. (T3V and T4V a bit too high and TSH, not surprisingly, could not be measured.) However, I am not sure how accurate this was, as I had just raised the amount of Armour from 3 to 3 and 1/4 about four days prior. Looking back, after the raise I was having hyper symptoms, which (I think) have disappeared when I went back to 3 grains.

Assuming that my saliva test for adrenal fatique comes back normal, would you dare TTC? I am in a hurry because I am not getting younger and, on the other hand, because I would not be surprised even if I was still infertile and have to try to figure out what else is wrong. I am not feeling very hopeful, TBH, but under the circumstances, don't want to wait any longer than I must.

Also, does anyone know how long one should wait after raising the amount of Armour before having bloodwork donem in order to have correct results?

My doctor is abroad this month and very difficult to get in touch with (super busy with no secretary), so asking her is not an option until late November.


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## aspenleaves (Oct 23, 2008)

Hey there... I am new here. I just heard about Armour bioidentical thyroid hormone... I have been on synthroid for 15 years. Is it worth the expense $300+ dollars for me to go to my kids natural doc to switch over to Armour. I do think I have deficiencies in my diet or something... 45 can't feel this bad, can it?


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Anumaria, have you had labs run for thyroid antibodies? IIRC, those correlate with miscarriage risk. Selenium reduces antibody levels, the study I read used 200mcg (I'd use l-selenomethionine, not the selenite something they used if you read the study, the former is absorbed/utilized a lot better).

For T4 supps, you need 6 weeks IIRC for blood levels to stabilize, and T3 supps have a much shorter half-life, so they'd stabilize sooner (on their own, since some of the T4 is converted to T3 and that's rising for 6 weeks--was that too circular?).

May want to look into nutrients and thyroid function, pregnancy's really draining on zinc (btdt).


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aspenleaves* 
Hey there... I am new here. I just heard about Armour bioidentical thyroid hormone... I have been on synthroid for 15 years. Is it worth the expense $300+ dollars for me to go to my kids natural doc to switch over to Armour. I do think I have deficiencies in my diet or something... 45 can't feel this bad, can it?

Synthroid's just T4, and Armour has T4, T3 and a few other not-well-understood thyroid chemicals as well. If your symptoms seem related to low thyroid, Armour may be better, but you could try supplementing selenium to provide enough for your body to convert the T4 in your Synthroid into T3 to actually use. l-selenomethionine is a good form of selenium supp, or if you want real foods, buy some brazil nuts (our WF has them in the shell) and eat 2-4 per day (each has about 100mcg of selenium, so you wouldn't want to eat more than that per day long-term).

I felt really bad a couple years ago. In addition to looking at this, you may want to look into other current diet/lifestyle changes that could help your body work better now, and eventually look into why you became hypothyroid (unless it's obvious like surgery or RAI or something like that).

A few things that some people on the thread have found helpful: gluten-free, oftentimes dairy-free, some folks eat a lot of liver (I am a wimp, I admit it) but B vitamins as a supp may be good, I know I'm forgetting a lot of things. Some folks transition entirely grain-free, seemed shocking to me a few years ago, but now we're doing it for my DH (different health issues) and it's work, but not crazy-impossible. Just depends on how you want to trouble-shoot your issue.


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## LessTraveledBy (Feb 9, 2005)

Thank you!

I am being treated by a "natural" doctor, so I am already taking a lot of vitamins. Antibodies were checked last time and were ok.

Sooo.... Since I have just lowered the amoug of Armour I take, I will wait 6 weeks before having labwork done.

Back to my original question...







To TTC or not to TTC with labs that are a little bit above normal?


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## aspenleaves (Oct 23, 2008)

Thanks Tanya-Lopez.... I use to take sellenium, but for some reason stopped. I think I have to upgrade my suppliment regime again. I am actually gluten and dairy free, now for 8 years... The more I read about bioidenticals and certain vitamin deficiencies the more I think I need to find the keys for me.... starting with armour instead of synthroid seems like a good place...

Thanks for your advice.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anumaria* 
Thank you!

I am being treated by a "natural" doctor, so I am already taking a lot of vitamins. Antibodies were checked last time and were ok.

Sooo.... Since I have just lowered the amoug of Armour I take, I will wait 6 weeks before having labwork done.

Back to my original question...







To TTC or not to TTC with labs that are a little bit above normal?

nak
I'll be incredibly surprised if your adrenal labs come back normal.
i believe a lot of doctors actually prefer a slightly higher level of thyroid hormones when you're ttc and taking thyroid supps... although it's possible yours are too high atm, particularly since you're not already addressing adrenal fatigue... you may find many of your symptoms "magically" disappear on the right adrenal support and you may even be able to- or even *need* to- decrease the amount of armour you presently take


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## LessTraveledBy (Feb 9, 2005)

Jacqueline, thanks for the response. I am curious, though, why you think I am likely to have adrenal fatique. Not everyone with hypo has it, I am sure, but is the % really high or is there another reason that you think I likely have it?

In the beginning my doctor thought that I did not have AF but wanted to make sure and thus ordered the test. I was under the impression that those with adrenal fatique have a hard time increasing the dosage of Armour. I have had no such trouble, which is partly why I ended up hyper.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anumaria* 
Jacqueline, thanks for the response. I am curious, though, why you think I am likely to have adrenal fatique. Not everyone with hypo has it, I am sure, but is the % really high or is there another reason that you think I likely have it?

In the beginning my doctor thought that I did not have AF but wanted to make sure and thus ordered the test. I was under the impression that those with adrenal fatique have a hard time increasing the dosage of Armour. I have had no such trouble, which is partly why I ended up hyper.

It seems to be an exceptionally high number of people with thyroid problems of any kind whom have AF. There is also a theory that you don't see thyroid problems until long after the problem has started- namely in the adrenals.
From the adrenal page on stopthethyroidmadness.com:

Quote:

* Not doing as well on desic*ca*ted thy*roid as you hoped, even when your doc*tor had you raise above 3 grains or higher?
Also, much of what you said in this thread and what I remember of your other posts says adrenal fatigue.









Cortisol (produced by the adrenals) allows proper utilization of the thyroid hormones. Without it, you will still be experiencing hypo symptoms even on a high dose of thyroid.


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## LessTraveledBy (Feb 9, 2005)

Thanks, again. I will get the saliva test resuts back in less than three weeks, so we will see.

I suppose I just feelso good these days, that that s why I am expecting a neg result. On the other hand, though, I guess I don't really even know what normal is. It will be interesting to see the results...


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## alacrity (Oct 25, 2008)

What do those of you who have no access to healthcare do if you have thyroid issues? After giving birth to my daughter (now 11 m old) I found out my thyroid was low but have no insurance and my income is TINY.

I have been feeling awful lately but cannot see a doctor. I have a friend who used the local free clinic in the past and said definitely do not go there.









This is just one of those many things I put on the back burner but it is on my mind lately because I am sluggish and dizzy lately. Like if I spin my daughter around i feel sick.


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## nataliachick7 (Apr 3, 2007)

alacrity:

i started myself on this:
http://www.nutri-meds.com/thyroid_supplements_s/33.htm

I couldnt take it anymore. It is helping, along with adrenal support.


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## marimara (Jan 31, 2008)

Hi everyone,

I haven't had time to read this entire thread yet but I though I'd tell my story in the hopes that someone might be able to offer some guidance.

I have multinodular goiter, have had it for about 10 years. Have had 2 FNA biopsies in years past and both were benign. This past year, my nodules have enlarged significantly and a new larger one is now present. I am going for a 3rd FNA biopsy on Wed. All my thyroid levels have always been normal. I am not producing antibodies to my thyroid either. I did test positive for the ANA screening test with antibodies for SSA and SSB. My allergist says she does not think I have lupus or Sjogrens.

My endocrinologist is concerned with the larger new nodule as it has increased blood flow to it.

My thyroid is tender to the touch. The 3 largest nodules are all between 1-3cm.

I have had unexplained case of bad hives this year (hence the allergist) which led to ezcema. Currently under control after a round of prednisone and steroid cream. Also have antihistamines (H1 and H2 to take but I haven't started them yet).

I did go to the doc earlier in the year for joint pain and all my rheumatic test came back normal. Nothing out of the ordinary.

I don't have all that much join pain right now but some days I do (back pain, shoulder, hands, wrists-but I am a retired massage therapist who had repetitive stress injuries in my hands and wrists).

Does any of this sound any alarms to any one? What should I be looking for?

Other health issues:
migraines
dry skin
hot flashes
lots of headaches that are not migraines as well

Thank you!!!!


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## alacrity (Oct 25, 2008)

Thank you natalia,

By the names I am assuming these are not vegetarian... ha. oh my. so I could not take them. Thank though.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Anyone who takes selenium and vitamin C, I thought you should be aware that they should be taken at separate times. Apparently vitamin C interferes with absorption of selenium.


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## linguistmama (Sep 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Anyone who takes selenium and vitamin C, I thought you should be aware that they should be taken at separate times. Apparently vitamin C interferes with absorption of selenium.

Good to know! I've been eating brazil nuts and then taking C right after.


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## Blueone (Sep 12, 2009)

Hi, I thought I'd see what's on this thread. I have hypothyroid and since having my son my levels have just been high. I got a raise in my T-3 after having him and my T4 has been at 3 grains for awhile. It worked for a month, but then they rose again. I have a doctors appointment on the 10th of November, but feel like it won't be soon enough. I'm drop dead exhausted. I should be getting a raise in my meds on Monday, but have to wait for them to be sent out to me because they are in California and I'm in New York in a town where I haven't found a doctor that will do the Armour medication.

As for Selenium, what does that do? I thought I've heard of it, but haven't really looked for a soy free version (allergic to soy).


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## nataliachick7 (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blueone* 
Hi, I thought I'd see what's on this thread. I have hypothyroid and since having my son my levels have just been high. I got a raise in my T-3 after having him and my T4 has been at 3 grains for awhile. It worked for a month, but then they rose again. I have a doctors appointment on the 10th of November, but feel like it won't be soon enough. I'm drop dead exhausted. I should be getting a raise in my meds on Monday, but have to wait for them to be sent out to me because they are in California and I'm in New York in a town where I haven't found a doctor that will do the Armour medication.

As for Selenium, what does that do? I thought I've heard of it, but haven't really looked for a soy free version (allergic to soy).

I believe Selenium helps convert the T4 to T3...dose is 200to 400mg. I have some by Carlson and it doesnt have any soy in it. In fact, all of the brands ive seen have been wheat dairy and soy free.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nataliachick7* 
I believe Selenium helps convert the T4 to T3...dose is 200to 400mg. I have some by Carlson and it doesnt have any soy in it. In fact, all of the brands ive seen have been wheat dairy and soy free.

It also helps to lower antibody counts in Graves and Hashimoto's.


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## MommytoB (Jan 18, 2006)

how do you guys get your thyroid levels to stay normal wise ?

I always take my thyroid med at the same time every day and 4 wks ago my levels were at 4.56 and my endo said keep your meds the same because it was under 5 but to her under 5 is normal but under 3 and above 2 is more normal for me so she wouldn't up my meds .

So, she said you will have bloodwork in december so then I call them up saying my body is feeling funny can i have my blood work checked early on so they got the labs scheduled right away it jumped from that level to close to 20 so then my meds got upped .

I go through so much up & downs that I'm on 100 mcg then all of a sudden for some reason my levels get too low after awhile , then the meds are lowered then I get to be normal wise for proably 2 months then it's back in the too high position then up then it gets to low then I'm like how can I be able to keep my tsh levels normal so they can stop going up & down.

I have no thyroid gland so I know right away when my thyroid levels are off balance it affects my moods, my body , my whole muscles & it's no fun!

My thyroid gland got removed in 2006 because it had 4 beign nodules on it making them want to check to see if it was cancer which was negative but found out that the thyroid was 3x the normal size nearly choking me before i even got it fully removed .


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## camprunner (Oct 31, 2003)

My doctor put me on her version of the Maker's Diet to see in systemic yeast could be a cause for Hashimotos . The last serious attempt at this diet lowered my antibodies quite a bit but put stress on my body because I didn't really understand her instructions (enzymes, probiotics, clenase). This time I did it right and am continuing to do so. I take Armour once a day.

Lately my brainfog is back. I couldn't even swim today for more than 20 minutes because I just couldn't focus. Can't focus on my work, etc. I've lost two pants sizes in the last month (I think I'm 8 weeks into the diet at this point and I'm defnately NOT starving myself by any means). The last few nights I've not been able to sleep and I've been extremely irratable. However, I'm not really tired today either. Do these sound like maybe I'm getting too much of the thyroid hormones? Will it hurt if I wait another month to go in for blood work? I do want her to be able to see for sure whether or not I need the medicine but I don't want to harm myself (or lose my job since I'm not working particularly fast lately).

Any insight would be helpful.


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

I had a thyroidectomy three years ago. I have been on changing dosages of synthroid since. My tsh level goes up and down. In August it was around 4 so my family doc changed the synthroid. I was re-tested two weeks ago and it is around 1.6. However, i am symptomatic. My hair is falling out. I wake up with heart palpitations, my pulse rate hoovers around 55-56 and I can't lose weight although I exercise frequently and eat a low fat, healthy diet. I get orthostatic hypotension occasionally too. My doc is confused and doesn't know what to do. She is sending me to an endo. Any suggestions?


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommytoB* 
how do you guys get your thyroid levels to stay normal wise ?

I always take my thyroid med at the same time every day and 4 wks ago my levels were at 4.56 and my endo said keep your meds the same because it was under 5 but to her under 5 is normal but under 3 and above 2 is more normal for me so she wouldn't up my meds .

So, she said you will have bloodwork in december so then I call them up saying my body is feeling funny can i have my blood work checked early on so they got the labs scheduled right away it jumped from that level to close to 20 so then my meds got upped .

I go through so much up & downs that I'm on 100 mcg then all of a sudden for some reason my levels get too low after awhile , then the meds are lowered then I get to be normal wise for proably 2 months then it's back in the too high position then up then it gets to low then I'm like how can I be able to keep my tsh levels normal so they can stop going up & down.

I have no thyroid gland so I know right away when my thyroid levels are off balance it affects my moods, my body , my whole muscles & it's no fun!

My thyroid gland got removed in 2006 because it had 4 beign nodules on it making them want to check to see if it was cancer which was negative but found out that the thyroid was 3x the normal size nearly choking me before i even got it fully removed .

I'm just seeing your post. Your story is so much like mine. I hope someone can give us some suggestions.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
I had a thyroidectomy three years ago. I have been on changing dosages of synthroid since. My tsh level goes up and down. In August it was around 4 so my family doc changed the synthroid. I was re-tested two weeks ago and it is around 1.6. However, i am symptomatic. My hair is falling out. I wake up with heart palpitations, my pulse rate hoovers around 55-56 and I can't lose weight although I exercise frequently and eat a low fat, healthy diet. I get orthostatic hypotension occasionally too. My doc is confused and doesn't know what to do. She is sending me to an endo. Any suggestions?

have they tested your adrenals and have you considered natural dessicated thyroid? i pray to all that is holy they're not going by tsh alone...


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
I had a thyroidectomy three years ago. I have been on changing dosages of synthroid since. My tsh level goes up and down. In August it was around 4 so my family doc changed the synthroid. I was re-tested two weeks ago and it is around 1.6. However, i am symptomatic. My hair is falling out. I wake up with heart palpitations, my pulse rate hoovers around 55-56 and I can't lose weight although I exercise frequently and eat a low fat, healthy diet. I get orthostatic hypotension occasionally too. My doc is confused and doesn't know what to do. She is sending me to an endo. Any suggestions?

We need adequate selenium to convert T4 (that's in your supp) to T3 that your body can use. I'd try supplementing 200mcg of selenium and see if that helps. Research it, it's not a crazy high dose, and if you're low on selenium, that could make your TSH show up at a reasonable level but your body feels like you don't have enough thyroid hormone.

"Orthostatic hypotension" ... that sounds like adrenal problems to me. You feel dizzy when you stand because your BP drops? My BP used to drop 20 pts when I went from lying down to standing up. Adrenal fatigue isn't something most mainstream doctors treat (maybe not acknowledge) but many alternative types do. You may want to check out one of the Adrenal Fatigue threads and see if things click for you. Thyroid and adrenal problems often co-exist.


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
have they tested your adrenals and have you considered natural dessicated thyroid? i pray to all that is holy they're not going by tsh alone...

Unfortunately, I have not be able to convince her to do anything other than the TSH levels. She said there's no need to since I no longer have a thyroid. I have not had my adrenals tested but I will demand that the endo do that as well as a full thyroid panel. I have numbness in my toes which I believe is neuropathy. I am not diabetic so there's really no other explanation.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
We need adequate selenium to convert T4 (that's in your supp) to T3 that your body can use. I'd try supplementing 200mcg of selenium and see if that helps. Research it, it's not a crazy high dose, and if you're low on selenium, that could make your TSH show up at a reasonable level but your body feels like you don't have enough thyroid hormone.

"Orthostatic hypotension" ... that sounds like adrenal problems to me. You feel dizzy when you stand because your BP drops? My BP used to drop 20 pts when I went from lying down to standing up. Adrenal fatigue isn't something most mainstream doctors treat (maybe not acknowledge) but many alternative types do. You may want to check out one of the Adrenal Fatigue threads and see if things click for you. Thyroid and adrenal problems often co-exist.


I will start selenium this weekend. I'm so frustrated with not feeling right. I know that the synthroid just isn't hitting it for me in spite of what my TSH level indicates. I've never been so frustrated.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Camprunner, do you have/ever had mercury fillings in your teeth? Any other heavy metal exposures? Try to add more fat into your diet to slow the rapid weight loss.

Pat


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
Unfortunately, I have not be able to convince her to do anything other than the TSH levels. She said there's no need to since I no longer have a thyroid. I have not had my adrenals tested but I will demand that the endo do that as well as a full thyroid panel. I have numbness in my toes which I believe is neuropathy. I am not diabetic so there's really no other explanation.


Um, I'd really consider *not* mentioning anything adrenal-related to an endocrinologist, to preserve a good working relationship with them. As a general rule, they'll recognize Addison's disease, an autoimmune, very serious (life-threatening) adrenal issue, and not recognize stages of adrenal dysfunction that are not so serious and are not autoimmune.

neuropathy--has someone tested your B12 lately? B12 deficiency can cause peripheral neuropathy.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Purplegirl, add folate (not folic acid) to your diet, both help with regulating thyroid levels. Beans, lentils, dark leafy greens and liver are high in food folate.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC480853/
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...6517819800033X
http://jcp.bmjjournals.com/cgi/conte...tract/17/6/666

It is well known that _thyroid_ and _folate_ function are related in animals (Williams et al 1
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...7f2a1791c705de

Pat


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Um, I'd really consider *not* mentioning anything adrenal-related to an endocrinologist, to preserve a good working relationship with them. As a general rule, they'll recognize Addison's disease, an autoimmune, very serious (life-threatening) adrenal issue, and not recognize stages of adrenal dysfunction that are not so serious and are not autoimmune.

neuropathy--has someone tested your B12 lately? B12 deficiency can cause peripheral neuropathy.

Yup, had b12 level checked along with the TSH. it was very normal, in fact it was high. i cut back on the supplementing. So who would be good at testing my adrenals? A NP?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Purplegirl, add folate (not folic acid) to your diet, both help with regulating thyroid levels. Beans, lentils, dark leafy greens and liver are high in food folate.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC480853/
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...6517819800033X
http://jcp.bmjjournals.com/cgi/conte...tract/17/6/666

It is well known that _thyroid_ and _folate_ function are related in animals (Williams et al 1
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...7f2a1791c705de

Pat

Thanks Pat. I will add folate to my diet as well.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

folate helps with neuropathy too.









Pat


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
Yup, had b12 level checked along with the TSH. it was very normal, in fact it was high. i cut back on the supplementing. So who would be good at testing my adrenals? A NP?

Thanks Pat. I will add folate to my diet as well.

Curious, how much were you supplementing? B12 and folate work together (methylation), is it possible folate's a limiting factor there?

An NP, a chiropractor who takes a whole health focus (not just adjustments), my acupuncturist is the one who said "hey, I know why you feel the way you do." I don't think the specific modality is as critical as finding a) someone good, and b) someone you fit well with in terms of approach.

Or you could test on your own, Canary Club has a 4x/day saliva test, and the cost is competitive as far as I can tell.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
folate helps with neuropathy too.









Pat

I was wondering if being low in either half could cause similar symptoms. But I don't know, that was just a meandering of my mind. Glad someone has an actual clue.


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
Curious, how much were you supplementing? B12 and folate work together (methylation), is it possible folate's a limiting factor there?

An NP, a chiropractor who takes a whole health focus (not just adjustments), my acupuncturist is the one who said "hey, I know why you feel the way you do." I don't think the specific modality is as critical as finding a) someone good, and b) someone you fit well with in terms of approach.

Or you could test on your own, Canary Club has a 4x/day saliva test, and the cost is competitive as far as I can tell.

I will check when I get home to see how much I was taking. I stopped to allow my levels to even out and when I go back to taking it, I won't take as much.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
folate helps with neuropathy too.









Pat

Wow, that is awesome. I am going to stop on my way home to get some. I need relief now!


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 

Wow, that is awesome. I am going to stop on my way home to get some. I need relief now!

In case Pat doesn't get back... you may not find folate at your local HFS. Folic acid yes, and for some of us, that's fine, but some folks don't convert folic acid into folate well. Thorne has some supplements (sometimes sold in HFSs, I buy online), um, Metagenics and Folapro are others, that contain actual folate. There are two forms of real folate (like the kind in food), folinic acid and 5-methyltatrafolate (5-mtf, I hope I spelled it out correctly).

http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/mthfr.php

Discussion on why some people need folate and why some of us are fine with folic acid.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
In case Pat doesn't get back... you may not find folate at your local HFS. Folic acid yes, and for some of us, that's fine, but some folks don't convert folic acid into folate well. Thorne has some supplements (sometimes sold in HFSs, I buy online), um, Metagenics and Folapro are others, that contain actual folate. There are two forms of real folate (like the kind in food), folinic acid and 5-methyltatrafolate (5-mtf, I hope I spelled it out correctly).

http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/mthfr.php

Discussion on why some people need folate and why some of us are fine with folic acid.











Pat


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
In case Pat doesn't get back... you may not find folate at your local HFS. Folic acid yes, and for some of us, that's fine, but some folks don't convert folic acid into folate well. Thorne has some supplements (sometimes sold in HFSs, I buy online), um, Metagenics and Folapro are others, that contain actual folate. There are two forms of real folate (like the kind in food), folinic acid and 5-methyltatrafolate (5-mtf, I hope I spelled it out correctly).

http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/mthfr.php

Discussion on why some people need folate and why some of us are fine with folic acid.

Thank you!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 









Pat

You guys are great!


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

5-methyltetrahydrofolate aka 5-MTHF


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Thank you.


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## camprunner (Oct 31, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Camprunner, do you have/ever had mercury fillings in your teeth? Any other heavy metal exposures? Try to add more fat into your diet to slow the rapid weight loss.

Pat

Thanks for the response. I'm not sure about the fillings honestly. I had some done when I was a child so maybe? A few years ago had some composite fillings done...

I gained a lot of weight due to my thyroid and could still stand to lose the weight(like maybe 10 more pounds but I'm happy with a lb a month) but really want to make sure it's not because I'm over medicated. I had a clump of hair fall out in the shower and some insomnia along with sudden difficulty focussing again. I did call the doctor and she cut my dosage in half. I think it has helped so far. My labs have not been too bad but my TPO's have always been high. The first time I went on the diet the TPO's went way down and I think they are this time too. This time I will stay on it the best I can.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

I am waiting for test results right now. I have gone back and forth between adrenals, yeast, and thyroid for years. Never really had anything tested.. ND suggesting this that or the other.. all of which was never covered by insurance and cost too much for me to be able to afford on a regular basis. I would sometimes feel like there was a lump in my throat and it would come and go. I got bed gallbladder attacks after my 4th child... and I finally had my gallbladder out in June. And I feel worse than ever now! I am constantly trying to move my collar off my throat only to find out it is not there. I am actually gaining weight but I am not hungry either. I get SO TIRED In the afternoon I can barely keep my eyes open (right at pick up time.. nice.) but then I am not overly tired at night and stay up til 11. My temp is usually around 97ish. I am so sick of feeling like crap.

If my numbers come back off.. (and I didn't know to ask for free t3/t4.. she just wrote t3/t4 on the paper. I hope this is OK.) I am going to push for something. I was thinking armour but i have read online that it is REALLY hard to get.. and some people were complaining about it being reformulated and not working as well anymore. So then there is Nature-throid. When I mentioned this to my ND she was like.. Armour is Armour I don't see how i can stop working.. sigh.. (well if they changed the formulation it wouldn't work the same right?) I think if I push I can get her to grudgingly prescribe something although what she really wants is for me to take her supplements.. which I have tried in the past and while they got rid of the tightness in the throat feeling nothing else really improved. Bah. Why are doctors such a PITA?


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## scbegonias (Aug 15, 2003)

greetings...so i'm not sure if i've posted here before, but like aniT, i've had issues with adrenals, yeast, and thyroid for a few years (at the very least). i finally found a great np and got healthy.

now i'm pregnant







. i've been going to the local birth center. i went in at 8w for the intro appt and blood work. since i had good TSH/ft3/4 numbers in august, they crossed that off the lab work. i was a bit annoyed, but figured i had another lab order from my np with those.

fast forward a week. np labs come back and my thyroid levels are:

tsh 4.53
ft3 3.5
ft4 0.-9

np is concerned so she calls me and we fax them to the birth center. mw at the birth center, not concerned (this is after they worked with me to get to a great, healthy point between 1-2 pre pregnancy). they gave me some gobbledy **** response, even when i countered with what the literature and such says.

my np thinks i need to move on to another mw (i'll end up with a homebirth mw...dh and i just haven't agreed on who that will be). np will not give me the script for the thyroid as she isn't managing my pregnancy.

ack, what do i do. symptom-wise, i can feel it. although, the mw thinks i'm just pregnant.

can a lay mw prescribe stuff (i'm on dessicated thyroid)? is a cnm a better bet? do my levels need to even be dealt with at this point?

thanks!


----------



## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
but you'd need to monitor how you feel closely and be willing to taper down on your dosage. Read about the symptoms of hyperthyroid because you may feel hyper as your thyroid starts working again.

Has this happened to anyone on here? I would love to hear their testimony. I haven't had any luck yet, but I do feel better. I added the iodine and I will add something else if this doesn't work. We'll what my lab results say.

To me just feel well at all is a WONDERFUL improvement even if that means taking synthroid and at least a half dozen supplements every day. I have suffered too long.


----------



## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristSavesAll* 
siberian ginseng(two weeks on two weeks off I think it is).

Is this same thing as "siberian root?"


----------



## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

I have been wondering a couple of other things. I worry about my heart so eating so much coconut oil worries me.

Also, I've heard soy is bad for your thyroid, but maybe that is just unfermented soy? Anyone know?


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
I have been wondering a couple of other things. I worry about my heart so eating so much coconut oil worries me.


Good oils are supposed to protect your heart. This is why pure, raw butter is supposed to be good for you.. very hard to come by however.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

The past few days I have really bad puffiness under my eyes. I think I'm going to stop the kelp and see if that is what was doing it







I feel dumb. I'm just now reading a lot of kelp supplements are high in arsenic. I got mine from gnc.

I did get sunburned a week ago and put some vitamin E on it. Maybe that could be doing it? My skin has been soooo dry. Olive oil helps some so I guess I will do that instead to see if it helps.


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## michelleklu (Aug 3, 2008)

Today I had an appointment with a doctor to review some thyroid lab results. The tests the previous doctor gave me was for t4, thyroxine and fti levels. This doctor said those were outdated tests and ordered a blood panel and antibodies test. While I was there he said my eyes were prominent and my thyroid was slightly enlarged so he suspected Graves even though I think its Hashimoto's. I also had high blood pressure and a really high heart beat rate. He prescribed beta blockers and told me to take them until I can get an appointment with internal medicine in about a month.

Do you think I should take hypertension medicine? I just read this one isn't recommended for breastfeeding mothers and was debating whether or not I should ask for one that's okay. I'm really iffy because I don't want to take any medicine until they find out what's wrong. I don't want to mess up any tests or anything.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

michelleklu- I'm sorry I don't know what I would do in that situation







I hope you find some answers. Are there any other hypertension medicines that are safe for breastfeeding. Check kellymom.com

Well I don't know what was up with me...maybe a sinus infection. My face was so puffy under my eyes, but I got some sun and ate a lot of fresh fruits and veggies and now I feel and look like my old self.

I am having a great smoothie and I want to share the recipe. It has a lot of magnesium which I know I need sometimes when my thyroid has me feeling anxious. I'm trying to eat a better balance of fruits and veggies and good fats along with my protein. I'm usually good about the protein, but so so with everything else. A lot of the green smoothie recipes out there have a lot of raw cruciferous veggies, which are goiter producing, right?

Here is the recipe:

5 frozen strawberries
avocado with pit if you blender can handle it...my oster can
whole orange/tangerine with skin if your blender can handle it
half cup fresh pineapple chunks
5 raw baby carrots
half cup coconut meat...all i had was sweetened coconut flakes
lime juice (optional)
orange juice...just enough to get the right consistency


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

My results are "normal." I am picking up the copy later today to see exactly "what" normal is.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

OK I have the results..

TSH is really low.. 1.109 (reference .300-4.000)
T3 total is 133 (reference 60-181)
T4 is 8.3 (reference 4.5-10.9)

Sigh.. so off to find something else that my symptoms fit I guess.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
OK I have the results..

TSH is really low.. 1.109 (reference .300-4.000)
T3 total is 133 (reference 60-181)
T4 is 8.3 (reference 4.5-10.9)

Sigh.. so off to find something else that my symptoms fit I guess.









are you on adrenal support?
if your thyroid is apparently okay, oftentimes it's adrenal.


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
are you on adrenal support?
if your thyroid is apparently okay, oftentimes it's adrenal.

No.. but I was sure it was thyroid becuase of the tightness in the throat thing. . Bah. This comes and goes however.. maybe it's just allergies.

I will check the adrenal thread.. as well as the Candida thread.. if it's still floating around.


----------



## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *michelleklu* 
Today I had an appointment with a doctor to review some thyroid lab results. The tests the previous doctor gave me was for t4, thyroxine and fti levels. This doctor said those were outdated tests and ordered a blood panel and antibodies test. While I was there he said my eyes were prominent and my thyroid was slightly enlarged so he suspected Graves even though I think its Hashimoto's. I also had high blood pressure and a really high heart beat rate. He prescribed beta blockers and told me to take them until I can get an appointment with internal medicine in about a month.

Do you think I should take hypertension medicine? I just read this one isn't recommended for breastfeeding mothers and was debating whether or not I should ask for one that's okay. I'm really iffy because I don't want to take any medicine until they find out what's wrong. I don't want to mess up any tests or anything.

Something popped in my head today...maybe ask your dr about a potassium supplement or try some bananas. Maybe someone will confirm. Hypers need more potassium and hypos need more sodium, right? ithyroid.com talks a little about it. Go with your instinct and maybe get a second opinion. I hope someone else will chime in.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I get SO TIRED In the afternoon I can barely keep my eyes open (right at pick up time.. nice.) but then I am not overly tired at night and stay up til 11. My temp is usually around 97ish. I am so sick of feeling like crap.


That sounds like adrenals to me just based on how I felt in the afternoons at my all time low.

11pm is too late for me.


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## subtlycrunchy (Jul 29, 2006)

New article from Women to Women (via their FB fan page): Just a thyroid problem? Or is it a hormonal imbalance? Like how it makes the connection between hormonal changes in perimenopause (which can start in your 30s) and the thyroid.


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

I just returned from my doc. I got her to agree to check out my adrenals and cortisol levels.







I will be back to list the labs she ordered. Why would she ask the color of my urine though???


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## Jimibell (Feb 18, 2003)

Improving diet is essential to helping with symptoms of thyroid. Whether you have a high TSH or not, if you have the symptoms that means something is wrong. Armour or synthroid, etc do not fix the thyroid, they do its work, but that will only weaken your thyroid. The only way to actually FIX the thyroid is to improve health overall.
I regret going on Armour because now I have to work so hard to go off of it. I have no symptoms of hypo but I have put my thyroid out of commission by taking medications. I've come to the unhappy realization that I fell for the allopathic conviction that drugs will help my health. Now I realize that drugs are only for emergencies. They mask symptoms but do not heal.
Just wanted to share my experience and urge others to think twice before going on meds. There are other ways!!


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## Barefoot~Baker (Dec 25, 2008)

Hey does anyone know if it's safe to take this stuff while breastfeeding?

Ingredients are thyroid tissue, adrenal tissue, pituitary tissue, thymus tissue, & spleen tissue.

It's by Natural Sources. The reviews on Amazon were great and I really want to see if this helps me.

Thanks


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jimibell* 
Improving diet is essential to helping with symptoms of thyroid. Whether you have a high TSH or not, if you have the symptoms that means something is wrong. Armour or synthroid, etc do not fix the thyroid, they do its work, but that will only weaken your thyroid. The only way to actually FIX the thyroid is to improve health overall.
I regret going on Armour because now I have to work so hard to go off of it. I have no symptoms of hypo but I have put my thyroid out of commission by taking medications. I've come to the unhappy realization that I fell for the allopathic conviction that drugs will help my health. Now I realize that drugs are only for emergencies. They mask symptoms but do not heal.
Just wanted to share my experience and urge others to think twice before going on meds. There are other ways!!

Although I do agree with you, I'm not sure I would wait to go on Armour *if my labs came back "bad"*. My TSH when all of this started was over 100 and I was sleeping for 19 hours a day (the only time I was awake was to make meals for everyone and pee with about an hour of "other" time) and I was having to supplement ds2 (4 months at the time) with 4-6 ozs formula/day though, so... Maybe I was at a point where it would be considered an emergency? Where is that line though? And how can you tell?


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## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

I've been on synthroid for almost 2 months. I'm on a very low dose. I can honestly say I feel 100% better. I'm in disbelief that it could help so quickly. I went through puberty at almost 14 and never ever ever had a normal cycle. I always had a long long time (usually 2 months) in between periods and then a really long period that didn't want to end (multiple spotting, etc.). I've been constipated since childhood. I started having issues with blood pressure, blood sugar, immune system not fighting off disease well, asthma flared, then in the last 2 years food allergies popped up, then I started sweating a lot, felt tired all the time...never wanted to get out of bed, some days couldn't "think" - couldn't form the thoughts I wanted to during a conversation, like I knew my brain was not working right, had issues with anxiety and depression but just always felt like this was "me" -- who I was, my personality or whatever. Then I take this drug and I realize what it feels like to be a normal person. I feel fine. I sleep at night and I wake up refreshed at 6 a.m. every morning. I don't drink coffee, I don't need to nap, I feel great, I had the first in my life 28 day cycle! I felt like having a party! Just wanted to share. I'm not typically a person that takes any drugs -- but I was falling apart. I was tested in college (10 years ago) because I was dealing with health problems and was told I was borderline hypo and to get rechecked ... when rechecked it was "normal" ... then a few years later before conceiving my 1st child I was checked and it was abnormal again .... next month swung just under the cut off = normal. My first child was born with developmental delays/globally, low functioning autism and brain damage. I now read that this could be connected to my hypo. I have no idea if that is what happened but I wish I had started on this drug 10 years ago.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Hi everyone - I just found this thread for a bit of support along with other ideas in helping manage/stablize some of my thyroid issues.

Overview -

14/15 y.o.- dx with Hashimoto's and was put on synthyroid for 5 years.

In my 20's- last year I just forgot to take it and etc. but my TSH levels always came back just fine in the norm, and since 2000 haven't had any problems.

Recently I've been feeling totally pooped, unfocused, and in general terrible. I was chalking it up to having a baby recently & bf'ing, but that didn't seem right either. Got into my new primary care MD, and we talked about my symptoms & she ordered a TSH level along with a check on my vit d levels too. This was based of my past hx, along with family hx. TSH came back high at 9ish, so I'm back on the synthyroid again as of today. With a request to come back in 2 months for labs.

What else could I be doing or taking to help boost my wee gland into working again, other resources I should be looking at???

Thanks!!! Kate


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adamsmama* 
My first child was born with developmental delays/globally, low functioning autism and brain damage. I now read that this could be connected to my hypo. I have no idea if that is what happened but I wish I had started on this drug 10 years ago.

























So sorry, mama. It's so difficult to have a child with special needs, and I truly hope you are not blaming yourself as it sounds.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_ktg_* 
What else could I be doing or taking to help boost my wee gland into working again, other resources I should be looking at???

Thanks!!! Kate

I'd take a look around ithyroid.com. He talks about the minerals and vitamins that our bodies need to make thyroid hormones. He doesn't talk about other stresses, like food intolerances, that can be making it more difficult for our bodies to work well. Though even if he had mentioned it, I wouldn't have thought it was me because I don't have any digestive issues. Gluten's often a problem, I think for a lot of people (regardless of whether they have thyroid issues). He talks more about heavy metals and specifically mercury than he used to, which I'm impressed with, probably because it turned out to be *my* issue.

I'd say, in general, look at your overall health history, and your family health history, and start looking for patterns, and look for common causes for those things.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

I can't decide to get my levels checked or not. It is kind of a pain b/c I have to get a babysitter. Plus I don't want to go around all those people in seek of tamiflu...sounds like a great way to catch the flu, but I guess it is everywhere. I kinda want to wait until March.

I only feel well if I sleep like 9 hours a night. 8 is okay. I slept 7 last night and wooooo today was rough. I felt like crying allll day, but I took the kids for a drive and just kind of relaxed to the radio while they got a nap. I think I did well not to take it out on everyone. I thought my fatigue was from having a cold, but that was looong ago. Hmmm. I'm going to ask him to test my iodine too. Last time they increased my dose of armour it made me feel really hyper and anxious even with adrenal support. But now I'm off of armour so maybe that won't be an issue. I seem to tolerate synthroid better.

How much are you guys sleeping? Some days are great, and some are just hard.


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## idigchaitea (Aug 21, 2007)

Hi everyone~I'm new to this thread! I just got tested and my TSH is 4.9 so I'm going on meds. I don't have insurance, so I decided to try Nutri-meds. They should come in the mail any day now. I can't wait to feel better. If these don't work for me, I will go get prescribed something. I'm new to the thyroid thing and have been reading up on www.stopthethyroidmadness.com. If I struggle with my medication journey, I know you ladies will give me some great advice!!

I lost my infant son when I was 40 weeks pregnant in March. I found out on my due date, and we were completely devastated. Since then we have dealt with a lot of changes including an overseas move (back to the U.S. to be near my son's grave--we were military). I am dealing with depression, NO sex drive, no energy, unable to lose the baby weight after 9 months, among many other low-thyroid symptoms. I am so excited to feel like my old self again.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

idigchaitea, wow, mama, I'm so sorry for your devastating loss.









Pat


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## doulawoman (Mar 11, 2008)

Hi everyone,

I am looking for a little info and support. I am 32 weeks pregnant and after complaining of feeling a bit down and more tired than usual my mw's had my thyroid tested. My TSH levels were considered "normal" I should find out numbers today, my T4 was "low" 8.9 and she said 11 point something is the lowest "normal" range. She also said it's hard to know what's normal/healthy for me and also for pregnancy as it tends to change in many women. What is everyone's experience with this? Anyone had thyroid go back to normal after pregnancy? Anyone had low T4 levels but normal Tsh levels? I can't find much info on this ratio on the internet.


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *doulawoman* 
Hi everyone,

I am looking for a little info and support. I am 32 weeks pregnant and after complaining of feeling a bit down and more tired than usual my mw's had my thyroid tested. My TSH levels were considered "normal" I should find out numbers today, my T4 was "low" 8.9 and she said 11 point something is the lowest "normal" range. She also said it's hard to know what's normal/healthy for me and also for pregnancy as it tends to change in many women. What is everyone's experience with this? Anyone had thyroid go back to normal after pregnancy? Anyone had low T4 levels but normal Tsh levels? I can't find much info on this ratio on the internet.

I would press for help. The first thing to show low is T4, then T3 and finally TSH.
How is your iodine intake? Do you eat seafood or used iodized salt? Do you take an iodine supp?
It is more important than I can even begin to stress that your thyroid levels be *optimal* during pregnancy.
Do NOT let this go. Seek a second opinion and a third and fourth if you must and do it NOW.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Started back on coconut oil this week and I do feel like I have a lot more energy in the afternoon.

I'm really hoping the dr will give me an iodine test. For now, I'm loading up on iodized salt, fish, and limas.


----------



## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
I'd take a look around ithyroid.com. He talks about the minerals and vitamins that our bodies need to make thyroid hormones. He doesn't talk about other stresses, like food intolerances, that can be making it more difficult for our bodies to work well. Though even if he had mentioned it, I wouldn't have thought it was me because I don't have any digestive issues. Gluten's often a problem, I think for a lot of people (regardless of whether they have thyroid issues). He talks more about heavy metals and specifically mercury than he used to, which I'm impressed with, probably because it turned out to be *my* issue.

I'd say, in general, look at your overall health history, and your family health history, and start looking for patterns, and look for common causes for those things.

Tanaya- Thanks for the heads up especially about the gluten. I've had a festering idea in my head (some digestive oddities, and a wicked rash/bumps on my elbows which came out of nowhere suddenly 2 years ago) for a while I might be gluten intolerant and haven't pressed to get tested for it. I think I'll start cutting out the gluten and see if a couple of symptoms I have clear up.

Nichole - can I ask, what is coconut oil good for or replacing in our bodies?


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## beka1977 (Aug 1, 2004)

Can I just say that sometimes all of this just makes me want to cry?


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_ktg_* 
Tanaya- Thanks for the heads up especially about the gluten. I've had a festering idea in my head (some digestive oddities, and a wicked rash/bumps on my elbows which came out of nowhere suddenly 2 years ago) for a while I might be gluten intolerant and haven't pressed to get tested for it. I think I'll start cutting out the gluten and see if a couple of symptoms I have clear up.


I just read that bumps/rash on the elbows (itchy, crusty lesions) could be associated with gluten intolerance. http://www.aafp.org/afp/2002/1215/p2259.html (photos included)

Pat


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
I just read that bumps/rash on the elbows (itchy, crusty lesions) could be associated with gluten intolerance. http://www.aafp.org/afp/2002/1215/p2259.html (photos included)

Pat

Pat - wow! I just saw my elbows in that article. Seriously! That is exactly how they used to be, its toned down a bit since - but I think I just said at my desk - holy s$#! that's what is on my elbow!!!

Thank you for the link - this is the picture I've been looking for to explain to my dr. what is happening!


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beka1977* 
Can I just say that sometimes all of this just makes me want to cry?

I'm sorry.







I felt really, really crappy for quite a while. I don't know if it'll help, but I found this part, the hypothyroidism, in particular to be quite helpful in figuring out what's really wrong with me.

Are you having trouble finding a helpful HCP? Have you considered non-traditional types, does anyone you know have a great chiro or ND or acupuncturist?

For my thyroid stuff, I worked on my own (which had cons as well as pros, but I did feel better), it was only later I realized I needed professional help.


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## out#edbyJs (Jan 27, 2010)

this is a great thread, I'm new here and found all of this info amazing.

I do have a question if anyone has any advice. My dd (6.75) had some blood tests done in Nov. and came back with a TSH of 4.83 (high) with fT4 of 0.9 (which I guess is the bottom end of normal).

Then had a retest done last week, TSF of 3.81 (normal) with fT4 of 1.0 (still the low normal).
The doc first told me she may has mild hypothyroidism causing slow growth and excessive weight.
But then with the second set of numbers he told me she was fine.

However I heard the levels for normal should be closer to 2.5?
Can anyone tell me there experience with the changed normal levels of TSH,
is this true and should I be looking for a second opinion?

Is there anything I could change naturally to help with this??

Thanks
Ronny (mom to 2 awesome kids!)


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## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *out#edbyJs* 
this is a great thread, I'm new here and found all of this info amazing.

I do have a question if anyone has any advice. My dd (6.75) had some blood tests done in Nov. and came back with a TSH of 4.83 (high) with fT4 of 0.9 (which I guess is the bottom end of normal).

Then had a retest done last week, TSF of 3.81 (normal) with fT4 of 1.0 (still the low normal).
The doc first told me she may has mild hypothyroidism causing slow growth and excessive weight.
But then with the second set of numbers he told me she was fine.

However I heard the levels for normal should be closer to 2.5?
Can anyone tell me there experience with the changed normal levels of TSH,
is this true and should I be looking for a second opinion?

Is there anything I could change naturally to help with this??

Thanks
Ronny (mom to 2 awesome kids!)

I would get a second opinion. I think that I had thyroid problems (subclinical/borderline levels) for a long, long time. Probably before puberty. I wish my parents had me checked at 14 when I started AF but it was never regular. My levels at 19 were in the 4.5 range and I've had nothing but problems for the last 10 years. Now I finally pushed for more testing and more questions this past year (about 5 months ago) and finally feel "normal" on the low dose thyroid med synthroid.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_ktg_* 

Nichole - can I ask, what is coconut oil good for or replacing in our bodies?

Cholesterol I think. Plus the fats help you absorb nutrients. I don't really understand it, but the Sally Fallon/ Weston Price people say it is really good for you.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Coconut Oil also contains iodine b/c it is grown near the ocean and also stimulates the thyroid:
http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/thyroid_health.htm


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *out#edbyJs* 
Is there anything I could change naturally to help with this??

Thanks
Ronny (mom to 2 awesome kids!)

Lack of the following nutrients can cause an inability to convert T4 to T3 and thus cause hypothyrodism:

iodine
iron
selenium
zinc
vitamins A & D
B vitamins esp. B6 and B12
Magnesium defiency mimics symptoms of hypothyroidism.

Copper excess (common in veg*an diets) can cause hyperthyroidism and also low zinc.


----------



## insahmniak (Aug 16, 2003)

Can I pop in and ask a question? Would an ob/gyn who specializes in infertility and endocrinology be of use in trying to track down a thyroid issue?

I'm trying to find a doc that would be open to the obvious hypothy symptoms I have. I also have been struggling with swollen lymph nodes under my arms for over a year now. They enlarge and recede (but don't disappear) with every cycle. I've been to a handful of docs and had a slew of tests but since my TSH comes back within normal no one is willing to pursue hormone issues. Ugh. Anyhow I'm wondering if it's weird to go the ob/gyn route for this. I think he's Armour friendly (as per Armour website) and that's what makes me hopeful. Any thoughts?


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Lack of the following nutrients can cause an inability to convert T4 to T3 and thus cause hypothyrodism:

iodine
iron
selenium
zinc
vitamins A & D
B vitamins esp. B6 and B12
Magnesium defiency mimics symptoms of hypothyroidism.

Copper excess (common in veg*an diets) can cause hyperthyroidism and also low zinc.

Does the need vit/minerlas for hypos differentiate for Hashis? How would you know If you have copper excess?


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Does the need vit/minerlas for hypos differentiate for Hashis? How would you know If you have copper excess?

I like something for me personally called optizinc. I have hashi's and also consider myself hypo. I was reading on ithyroid.com that hypos tend to be low on zinc and hypers tend to be low on copper. The nice thing about optizinc is that it contains just a small amount of copper so that you do not throw yourself off balance. You might be able to have a naturopath test your saliva for heavy metals. I find ithyroid.com's supplement section to be very informative on what minerals and vitamins hypos and hypers need. He does say you need to consult your physician, but my physician is about as helpful as a monkey when it comes to supplements so bah!

I just read on ithyroid that if you have excess mercury in your system, you may need extra selenium, not to exceed 600mcg. I temporarily bumped my Se from 200 to 400mcg b/c I have been soooo tired and did get my amalgams out a year ago. I'm nervous to take too much Se, but I think 400 for a few weeks will be okay.

I am out of some of my vitamins including b complex and flavanoids to take with my C. Before I get back on my regimen, I am supposed to find out the lab results including tsh, t3, and t4 next week so I'm trying to hold off to see if my dr can help. If he can't, I guess I'll just try iodine on my own and get back on all the cofactors. I don't want to change too many things at one time. If a little bit more synthroid is what I need to be able to take better care of my family, I'm down with that. I like the idea of healing my thyroid naturally, but sometimes I'm not sure if that is possible for me. Maybe iodine is the missing link for me or maybe it is too late. I really don't care how I feel better...just as long as I do! If extra synthroid doesn't help me, I'm thinking of ordering the Iosol Iodine. It is a low dose so that way I can proceed slowly and keep an eye out for side effects.

I used to drink lots of coffee in college. I wonder if I'm permanently addicted to coffee or damaged my adrenals/thyroid that way. I usually have to have a cup of white tea in the afternoon.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *insahmniak* 
Can I pop in and ask a question? Would an ob/gyn who specializes in infertility and endocrinology be of use in trying to track down a thyroid issue?

I'm trying to find a doc that would be open to the obvious hypothy symptoms I have. I also have been struggling with swollen lymph nodes under my arms for over a year now. They enlarge and recede (but don't disappear) with every cycle. I've been to a handful of docs and had a slew of tests but since my TSH comes back within normal no one is willing to pursue hormone issues. Ugh. Anyhow I'm wondering if it's weird to go the ob/gyn route for this. I think he's Armour friendly (as per Armour website) and that's what makes me hopeful. Any thoughts?

Why not? Tell them how you feel and keep somewhat of an open mind to what they suggest. Keep trying and looking for help. What is your TSH? Maybe you start feeling bad before your TSH starts going up? Maybe you can catch it and heal yourself before you need medicine. I find that once you start, it is hard to stop. Did you try a naturopath?


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

I got my labwork back today. My tsh is 3.4 and my cholesterol is 140. My dr says this is normal. I think I'm going to order my iodine today and a few other supplements.

This week has been really good. I think the extra Selenium is helping. Plus we have been snowed in which has been very relaxing.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
I like something for me personally called optizinc. I have hashi's and also consider myself hypo. I was reading on ithyroid.com that hypos tend to be low on zinc and hypers tend to be low on copper. The nice thing about optizinc is that it contains just a small amount of copper so that you do not throw yourself off balance. You might be able to have a naturopath test your saliva for heavy metals. I find ithyroid.com's supplement section to be very informative on what minerals and vitamins hypos and hypers need. He does say you need to consult your physician, but my physician is about as helpful as a monkey when it comes to supplements so bah!

Be careful with supplemental copper--you probably are, of course. I think we get enough through diet that we're okay, even the kids on very high for bodyweight doses.

And if anyone wants to look into heavy metals on their own, I'll just put in a plug for a hair test that you can order yourself (specific company, specific test)....

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...lating&page=30

I just read on ithyroid that if you have excess mercury in your system, you may need extra selenium, not to exceed 600mcg. I temporarily bumped my Se from 200 to 400mcg b/c I have been soooo tired and did get my amalgams out a year ago. I'm nervous to take too much Se, but I think 400 for a few weeks will be okay.

When dealing with mercury, I'd argue that high-dose, long-term supplementation is reasonable and appropriate--I took more than 400mcg for more than a few weeks--but I think it has a relationship to iodine, in terms of utilization, you may need a bit of supplemental iodine at some point, if you stick with it longer than just a few weeks. The amount of zinc I've been giving my kids for 2 years is appalling, yet they are both borderline low based on symptoms STILL. Don't know of easy-to-see low Se symptoms though.









I am out of some of my vitamins including b complex and flavanoids to take with my C. Before I get back on my regimen, I am supposed to find out the lab results including tsh, t3, and t4 next week so I'm trying to hold off to see if my dr can help. If he can't, I guess I'll just try iodine on my own and get back on all the cofactors. I don't want to change too many things at one time. If a little bit more synthroid is what I need to be able to take better care of my family, I'm down with that. *I like the idea of healing my thyroid naturally, but sometimes I'm not sure if that is possible for me.* Maybe iodine is the missing link for me or maybe it is too late. I really don't care how I feel better...just as long as I do! If extra synthroid doesn't help me, I'm thinking of ordering the Iosol Iodine. It is a low dose so that way I can proceed slowly and keep an eye out for side effects.

Until you've dealt with the metals, I wouldn't count you out, I think that between shovelling in nutrients and getting the mercury out, I think my thyroid is becoming more robust.

I used to drink lots of coffee in college. I wonder if I'm permanently addicted to coffee or damaged my adrenals/thyroid that way. I usually have to have a cup of white tea in the afternoon.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
I got my labwork back today. My tsh is 3.4 and my cholesterol is 140. My dr says this is normal. I think I'm going to order my iodine today and a few other supplements.

This week has been really good. I think the extra Selenium is helping. Plus we have been snowed in which has been very relaxing.

But _you_ know that cholesterol of 140 and TSH of 3.4 aren't normal/healthy, right? As I'm getting healthier, I'm guessing my cholesterol is rising to more normal values, it was 138 a couple years ago but I think as my liver gets healthier, it _should_ (I hope) be getting closer to a reasonable range.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *insahmniak* 
Can I pop in and ask a question? Would an ob/gyn who specializes in infertility and endocrinology be of use in trying to track down a thyroid issue?

I'm trying to find a doc that would be open to the obvious hypothy symptoms I have. I also have been struggling with swollen lymph nodes under my arms for over a year now. They enlarge and recede (but don't disappear) with every cycle. I've been to a handful of docs and had a slew of tests but since my TSH comes back within normal no one is willing to pursue hormone issues. Ugh. Anyhow I'm wondering if it's weird to go the ob/gyn route for this. I think he's Armour friendly (as per Armour website) and that's what makes me hopeful. Any thoughts?

I found more help for thyroid/adrenal stuff from alternative-type HCPs, folks like acupuncturists, chiropractors, NDs, like that. I saw an endocrinologist's office once, wasn't impressed, though I walked out with an Rx for Synthroid. But if he's Armour-friendly, he may be more open to listening to symptoms.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
But _you_ know that cholesterol of 140 and TSH of 3.4 aren't normal/healthy, right?


Yes, thank you...I'd say the tsh is too high.







What is a normal cholesterol?

I just ordered some supplements including iodine. I've been doing a lot of reading and I'm ready to try it. If I still feel bad, I will go to a different dr.

Thanks again.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Hi. I'm new. Found out I have a goiter and nodule yesterday. Going for us and bw next week.

Just reading and learning.

If anyone has any specific advice for this stage of the fun, let me know.

V


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Yes, thank you...I'd say the tsh is too high.







What is a normal cholesterol?











Have to get my TSH redone next Monday. We're just doing TSH because it was the only one "out of range" last time (although my dr said my FT4 was lower than she was happy with too) and we're honestly expecting it to still be but don't want to increase my dose without giving the switch from Armour to compounded thyroid time to kick in (in case there's a difference) and then checking. I also requested an antibodies test which this doctor actually agreed to!







I







my doctor!


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

I'm hoping to end up in the 180-220 range, but I'm not really clear if higher than that is fine, I think it might be, though I'm wondering if my family just runs on the low end--not 138 low, that wasn't good, but normal-low, so that may not be something I ever really need to figure out.

Cholesterol's chemically related to adrenal hormones, cholesterol & progesterone & adrenals are all quite interrelated, and at least for me, all were worn down and low. For me, I'm just doing the slow and steady support for my adrenals, and my progesterone seems to be improving and I hope/assume my cholesterol as well.

I think roughly 1/4 or 1/3 of our cholesterol comes from diet, and the remainder is what we make? I _think_ that's what I remember, I figured high cholesterol foods wouldn't hurt (though I still ended up with fasting blood cholesterol of 138, so I'm not sure it made a difference).


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
Hi. I'm new. Found out I have a goiter and nodule yesterday. Going for us and bw next week.

Just reading and learning.

If anyone has any specific advice for this stage of the fun, let me know.

V

Ask for adrenal testing!!
I was talking to my best friend who had her thyroid removed because of a substernal goiter and they never tested her adrenal function even though her thyroid function was "normal" before surgery.







Turns out that adrenal insufficiency can be a cause for goiters (and sometimes thyroid nodules as well).


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Ask for adrenal testing!!
I was talking to my best friend who had her thyroid removed because of a substernal goiter and they never tested her adrenal function even though her thyroid function was "normal" before surgery.







Turns out that adrenal insufficiency can be a cause for goiters (and sometimes thyroid nodules as well).

I'd just add, ask if you see a more alternative-type HCP, most conventional doctors will not respond well to the phrase "adrenal fatigue" and if you need to keep a good relationship with that person, it may be better to explore that possibility in a different way.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Thank you. I do have a history of Cushings and adrenal suppression from prednisone to treat asthma. I don't care for the endo I saw but at least it's in the hospital system that diagnosed the Cushings so he can see the blood work himself.

He is testing cortisol but hasn't talked about a 24 hour urine collection which I think is for Dhea from the adrenals (my memory is foggy on that test, I may have it wrong). I bet it will all be normal.

I probably should taper off my inhaled steroids for a few days since even though they aren't supposed to be systemic, they are.

I have always had hypo symptoms but always had normal blood work so I assume this will be the case again. Although I never had a goiter or nodule before.

I have read about 10 pages of this thread and I just feel...tired. Another health thing to research as if infertility, asthma, cushings and pcos weren't enough. Ugh.

V


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## out#edbyJs (Jan 27, 2010)

Ok, I took my dd to have a 3rd blood test checking for hypo.

Now can anyone tell me if the time of day makes a difference in TSH levels?

I thought I remembered reading somewhere that TSH is released overnight so the levels will be higher in the morning. Is this true?


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
I have read about 10 pages of this thread and I just feel...tired. Another health thing to research as if infertility, asthma, cushings and pcos weren't enough. Ugh.

V









That's a lot. If it were me, I'd start looking for larger, underlying reasons for so many things to be going on. For me, I eventually found out that I've got one health issue that's manifesting in many ways. Just to consider and rule in/out, for me it's the mercury from my amalgam fillings. There are other routes of exposure, and other metals that are problematic that are harder to identify a source of exposure (lead comes to mind, but copper too), but just to throw it out there.

Best wishes figuring it out!


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 







That's a lot. If it were me, I'd start looking for larger, underlying reasons for so many things to be going on. For me, I eventually found out that I've got one health issue that's manifesting in many ways. Just to consider and rule in/out, for me it's the mercury from my amalgam fillings. There are other routes of exposure, and other metals that are problematic that are harder to identify a source of exposure (lead comes to mind, but copper too), but just to throw it out there.

Best wishes figuring it out!

Thanks. For me it is probably the prednisone that is the core problem. It has probably lead to subclinical hypopituitaryism (sp?). Although they are also re-evaluating for a pituitary tumor.

I read most of the thyroid madness site. Will be interesting to see what my blood work shows. Since I also have estrogen dominance and a luteal phase defect (low progesterone) which can make TSH numbers look good from what I understand, I am not holding out any hope of the blood work being accurate.
V


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Violet, have you done food journals and identified food intolerances? Along with the steroid, that could mess up your gut, thus impair nutrient absorption, leading to inflamed gut and asthma, etc.

Are you doing any whole food probiotics, that would help with the inflammatory process, making the steroids less necessary. Also, have you tried the Buteyko breathing?





Pat


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

I take probiotics everyday.

I am familiar with that breathing method but don't practice it. Exercise is therapeutic for me and I count it as similar to the breathing exercises in effect.

Aside from shellfish, I have not identified any food intolerance or allergies.

V


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## sbraz (Jan 22, 2009)

Hi,
I have read a bit of this thread, but no where near the whole thing... I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice or point me in the right direction...

Background: was diagnosed with Hashimotos when I was 15... mostly because I was cold all of the time and my fingers and toes would turn completely white from poor circulation, my mom took me to the dr. and they tested my thyroid levels (both of my parents became hypo as adults)... I dont remember exactly but I know my tsh was 600+ at the time. I saw an endo for a period of time but don't really remember much, 15 yr olds have other priorities I guess... I have been on 175 mcg of synthroid since establishing that, so about 12 years now... my dr. tried to lower my level to 150 when I was in college and I began experiencing a huge problem with depression and inability to concentrate (not good for senior year of college!!) when I tested my tsh was in the 30's.... I dont really know how I was handling tsh of 600 as a teen. I've never really experienced problems with weight or cholesterol when hypo, mostly depression, fatigue, feeling cold.
Anyway, now I'm pregnant and have been monitoring throughout the pregnancy, gone up to 200 mcg synthroid.

Issue 1: The endo I am now seeing has become interested in my cholesterol all of a sudden. Before pregnancy it was low, (130) but now in last trimester it has sky-rocketed, (270, high hdl and ldl), but from what I've read it is normal for cholesterol to be very high at the end of pregnancy, like up to 325. I am re-testing in a week or so and my endo told me if its higher or hasn't gone down she wants me to start taking cholesterol meds. Has anyone with hypo had an endo testing their cholesterol and/or recommending cholesterol med. in the 3rd trimester??? I don't see the issue as it's apparently normal and should go down to pre-pregnancy levels after delivery??

Issue 2: I've started to become interested in Desiccated thyroid treatments... I never realized the issues with synthroid/t4 until I started reading this thread. I guess I should obviously wait until after the baby is born to try anything, but what about while breastfeeding? I would like to breastfeed for 2 yrs, do you think I could start changing therapies while bf or should wait???
I am in Brazil so I don't know what they have available here, will have to find out. I'm also worried my current endo will not like the idea and I'll have to find someone else.

My endo is only regularly testing my tsh and t4, should I ask for t3?? I always thought the tsh was the most important # and the only one I've ever really paid attention to...
I'm also kind of scared about maybe trying desiccated thyroid treatments, my drs have always presented my need level of synthroid of being very high... I guess in the past I bought the idea that the desiccated thyroid options were not regulated well or the "archaic" therapy... anyone go from high synthroid levels to armour, etc. successfully? I'm a bit scared to even try, do you think its worth it? in the past when my thyroid got screwed up it really has affected my life in negative ways....


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

You need to know what your exact numbers were: ldl, hdl and triglycerides. Because that really determines the way forward. I would suspect your triglycerides are high which can put you at risk of pancreatitis.

I would try fish oil first before statins. Statins can be bad news. Get some coromega and do 2 packets a day. If you already take fish oil, I would up the dose.

And cut down on sugar--especially if your triglycerides are high. That may be all you need to do.

I don't have much advice re: the thyroid stuff as I'm new to it myself.

HTH
V


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## Indigomama (Dec 26, 2001)

so generally my endo takes cholesterol spikes as a sign as something isn't right with the thyroid matrix and starts testing that way. Pregnancy is generally hard on your thyroid and you can have spikes with hashimiotos due to your immune system going kind of wacky during and after pregnancy plus you have all this hormone stuff going on which totally wacks iut thyroid take in at the cellular level.

net: i would be very skeptical of your endo and def second the fish oil recommendations... it's great for pregnancy/breastfeeding mamas regardless of cholesterol!


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## Ravenlunatic (Jan 7, 2010)

Hi all, I have been following this tread to some degree and because of advice I have switched from synthroid (on it for 15 years) to a natural compounded thyroid. I have been on this since october. I have also developed 'new' food intolerances to such a degree that I am now trying the SCD diet. Hmmm, could this be linked to my new thyroid meds? in some way?

I have been GFCF for almost a decade. It seems to me that new food intolerances could be due to stress issues, but thought I would look into the thyroid meds question because it has happened a the same time.


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## sbraz (Jan 22, 2009)

well my triglycerides were 184, which is high, but ive read 200+ is cause for concern... ldl 173 and hdl 63. i have been taking flax seed oil regularly for omegas, i did take fish oil before but had a problem keeping it down in early pregnancy, would flax work the same way as fish in regards to cholesterol? it will be interesting to see my levels next time... i guess i should start making a list of things to bring up with my endo, i dont really see the point of starting statins when delivery will be about 6 weeks away. i still dont know if it is normal to test thyroid patients for cholesterol in late pregnancy, i feel like maybe my dr. is just trying to push some more meds on me, that is the general medical trend ive noticed where im living...
thanks for the sugar suggestion, i have been eating more sugary things than normal...


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbraz* 
well my triglycerides were 184, which is high, but ive read 200+ is cause for concern... ldl 173 and hdl 63. i have been taking flax seed oil regularly for omegas, i did take fish oil before but had a problem keeping it down in early pregnancy, would flax work the same way as fish in regards to cholesterol? it will be interesting to see my levels next time... i guess i should start making a list of things to bring up with my endo, i dont really see the point of starting statins when delivery will be about 6 weeks away. i still dont know if it is normal to test thyroid patients for cholesterol in late pregnancy, i feel like maybe my dr. is just trying to push some more meds on me, that is the general medical trend ive noticed where im living...
thanks for the sugar suggestion, i have been eating more sugary things than normal...

Yeah, I would push to wait and see how the cholesterol levels change post partum.

Flax is not complete, it's only 1/2 the equation. Coromega has an orange taste. Or you can get enteric double coated capsules that have no taste and no fish burps.

Your triglycerides are slightly elevated. In my experience, it's easier to get those down than affect LDL or HDL. So I would start fish oil and cut sugar which will give you some immediate downward movement in your total cholesterol number.

V


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

When I was pregnant, my doctor wouldn't even test cholesterol. She said the hormones make it temporarily high. When I was breastfeeding, my cholesterol was 200 and now it is 140.


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## sbraz (Jan 22, 2009)

yeah, thats what i dont get... i havent found much info on cholesterol and pregnancy because i dont think most drs. even care/test for it. the little info ive read said that it sky rockets in the end of pregnancy, which has to do with baby's brain development. i told my endo this last time but she said she wasnt so concerned with the overall highness, but that the ldl was elevated... am i missing something or if pregnancy levels go to 300+ total of course the ldl would be elevated as well??? i have not gained much weight this pregnancy, 32 weeks about 12 pounds, so i kinda have figured if i want the ice cream i should just eat it. i have pretty good overall eating habits though. i know high cholesterol can indicate problems with thyroid, but i dont understand her concern with that in pregnancy. also, after learning so much about NCB and flaws in the medical system im starting to get really paranoid about my drs... i dont know if im just looking extra hard to have faults with them now, but i really do not understand her testing for it at this point, ive never had issues pre-pregnancy, even before my hypothyroid was treated...


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

I don't know IF this has been posted already or if it's a good source but I thought it was a good read

http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/has...yroiditis.html


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

I started my iodine today. I only took 1/4 dropper of Iosol which isn't very much. I haven't noticed any side effects. I do feel pretty good, definitely less cold. I hope this helps me.

I'm a little anxious/stressed which is common for me in the afternoons. The pm is so BUSY with homework, cooking, dishes, baths, and bedtime. I took some mag, C, and b complex. Now I'm going to read my book and rest.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
I started my iodine today. I only took 1/4 dropper of Iosol which isn't very much. I haven't noticed any side effects. I do feel pretty good, definitely less cold. I hope this helps me.

I'm a little anxious/stressed which is common for me in the afternoons. The pm is so BUSY with homework, cooking, dishes, baths, and bedtime. I took some mag, C, and b complex. Now I'm going to read my book and rest.

Good luck with the iodine. THat's on my list of supplements to start once the doctor tells me my u/s and blood work don't worry him.







That's pretty much how my luck goes medically. There's a problem, but no one can ever find it.

Today I had my thyroid ultrasound and they looked at my gallbladder which is malfunctioning despite no stones (that I could see).

V


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
Good luck with the iodine. THat's on my list of supplements to start once the doctor tells me my u/s and blood work don't worry him.







That's pretty much how my luck goes medically. There's a problem, but no one can ever find it.

Today I had my thyroid ultrasound and they looked at my gallbladder which is malfunctioning despite no stones (that I could see).

V

Yes, I get this! I ordered it the day my dr called and said everything was "normal." I got fed up with feeling bad. I can tell you sleeping 10 hours a night and wearing your coat inside your 70 degree house is not normal. Yeah I need to find a new dr, but how to survive in the mean time.

Today I feel great! Could it be the iodine? I don't know, but I'm not going to complain. I'm going to take it every other day for now and watch for side effects.


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## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

What type of iodine are you guys using?


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

I'm taking Iosol that I got on amazon. It is a lower dose than Iodoral and Lugol's. I wanted to start slow and see how I felt.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Got ahold of the dr's office for test results:
TSH 5.14 (down from 7.68 last month but I also took my meds that morning, and you're not supposed to iirc)
Anti-TPO >1000
Didn't do anti-TG (bc I couldn't remember the name of it)
No recommendation to increase meds. Haven't talked to dr yet but I doubt there will be.
*sigh*

Suggestions anyone?


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Got ahold of the dr's office for test results:
TSH 5.14 (down from 7.68 last month but I also took my meds that morning, and you're not supposed to iirc)
Anti-TPO >1000
Didn't do anti-TG (bc I couldn't remember the name of it)
No recommendation to increase meds. Haven't talked to dr yet but I doubt there will be.
*sigh*

Suggestions anyone?









I would start by repeating the blood work and not taking your meds. The results you have aren't accurate. Then you can ask for the anti-TG test too.

V


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## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
I would start by repeating the blood work and not taking your meds. The results you have aren't accurate. Then you can ask for the anti-TG test too.

V

I'm confused... are you not supposed to take medicine before getting the TSH test done? No one told me that...


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adamsmama* 
I'm confused... are you not supposed to take medicine before getting the TSH test done? No one told me that...

I never have. I can't find the article about that issue atm either, but it's also worth noting that I went in at 5pm (and last test was at 9:30am).
According to this article, that fact alone may have decreased my TSH by as much as 26%.

http://thyroid.about.com/od/getteste...a/tshtests.htm
(I can't do links for some reason atm. Sorry.







)


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

I jumped the gun.







Talked to doctor's office again (now that the doctor's actually there) and she is recommending a slight increase in medication (no idea what "slight" is) so they're calling that in today. Which is both great and irksome since we went to the city yesterday to fill my (useless) prescription (the apothecary is closed on the weekend and DH had to be at work today and today was my last day of medication... not cutting it TOO close







I was actually hoping to get my new dose before refilling.). I guess I'll take advantage of their mailing option so that we don't have to drive back over again and I get my (hopefully) proper dosage sooner.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I wouldn't do Coromega or any other "stripped" form of fish oil. We want natural high vitamin cod liver oil with the vitamins A and D. A deficiency alone in these can contribute to thyroid malfunction. Also there is evidence that taking the polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA's) without vitamins A and D lead to oxidization of the oils in the package and the body (formation of free radicals).

http://www.westonaprice.org/Cod-Liver-Oil/

JR,









Selenium and lots of magnesium are vital. Are you taking full complement of B vits? Enough vitamin A and D?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
JR,









Selenium and lots of magnesium are vital. Are you taking full complement of B vits? Enough vitamin A and D?

I take 250mg Selenium daily (total) and 1150mg Mag.
I take a (Vital nutrients) B-complex and a (Thorne) prenatal vite. I get 2000 IUs of preformed A, 3000 IUs of caretenoids and 2600 IUs of D daily. And I recently (a couple of months?) started vitamin E.
I had started iodine, but was starting REALLY low and slow (as in, I added an extra 75mcg) but just read on Stop The Thyroid Madness that people with Hashi's should be on 50mg (following an iodine loading test).







Yeesh.
Being sick is expensive.







And that's not even mentioning the social costs.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

JR, wandering a bit off-topic, when you run out of your Thorne prenatals, maybe consider the Thorne Basic Nutrients? Much higher level of Bs plus a lot more folate, and you can get them without copper. Might not need a separate B complex then.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 
JR, wandering a bit off-topic, when you run out of your Thorne prenatals, maybe consider the Thorne Basic Nutrients? Much higher level of Bs plus a lot more folate, and you can get them without copper. Might not need a separate B complex then.

Just looked at this quickly but...
Firstly, my B-complex and my prenatals atm = 4 pills. The Basic Nutrients is 6. I'm trying to DECREASE my pills (even though I keep increasing instead







). And the Basic Nutrients actually has the same amount of folate in those 6 pills as my 3 prenatal pills. Everything else is higher than my prenatal alone, but... I'll make a spreadsheet in a sec to compare.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I get 2000 IUs of preformed A, 3000 IUs of caretenoids and 2600 IUs of D daily. And I recently (a couple of months?) started vitamin E.
I had started iodine, but was starting REALLY low and slow (as in, I added an extra 75mcg) but just read on Stop The Thyroid Madness that people with Hashi's should be on 50mg (following an iodine loading test).







Yeesh.
Being sick is expensive.







And that's not even mentioning the social costs.

Tell me about it!!! socially, emotionally, marriage-ally...









The WAPF recommends standard amount of vitamin A should be 20,000 IU per day from all sources (traditional foods included that is) as a regular amount and up to 90,000 IU per day in times of illness.

That amount of D was still giving me low blood level tests. I had to up to 10,000 IU per day for a couple months then dropped down to 5,000.

Yes, iodine researchers have said that low iodine is key cause of Hashi's (and all thyroid disorders). I have detox issues too. I haven't been brave enough to go up so high despite people on the Iodine Yahoo group saying they feel better at higher doses.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Tell me about it!!! socially, emotionally, marriage-ally...









The WAPF recommends standard amount of vitamin A should be 20,000 IU per day from all sources (traditional foods included that is) as a regular amount and up to 90,000 IU per day in times of illness.

That amount of D was still giving me low blood level tests. I had to up to 10,000 IU per day for a couple months then dropped down to 5,000.

Yes, iodine researchers have said that low iodine is key cause of Hashi's (and all thyroid disorders). I have detox issues too. I haven't been brave enough to go up so high despite people on the Iodine Yahoo group saying they feel better at higher doses.









That's a LOT of A! I'm also looking at another Thorne vitamin atm called Immune Support or something with 57,500 IU of A- but it's 12 pills per day







.
I took 150,000IU of D a week for 6 months to get my levels up to par then my ND told me to cut back to 2000.

Still doing my spreadsheet up here. Although it looks like the Basic Nutrients falls short on most of the Bs (eta: as in, it doesn't have as much as my prenatal AND my B complex together), it's higher in some other things.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

*sigh*
Well, my analysis is:
No matter which way I go, in order to get all of the nutrients at optimal levels according to all 3 supplements, I would need to take (minimum) another 10 pills per day.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Can you do the A with cod liver oil? Not sure if a spoonful of oil is better or worse, but it may really reduce the # of pills.

I didn't realize the prenatal had more than 400mcg folate, my memory _is_ what it used to be.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TanyaLopez* 







Can you do the A with cod liver oil? Not sure if a spoonful of oil is better or worse, but it may really reduce the # of pills.

I didn't realize the prenatal had more than 400mcg folate, my memory _is_ what it used to be.









That estimate was assuming that either a) I found a supp which supplied nearly 50,000IU of vitamin A in ONE pill or b) I used the Immune Support complex by Thorne.

eta: And believe me, I understand about the memory.


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## KermitII63 (Oct 29, 2009)

I just got back from the endocrinologist and was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. I had a hoshimotos diagnosis right before getting pregant and my TSH levels were completely normal throughout the pregnancy (between one and two). My thyroid was enlarged though, with increased blood flow, which he said was consistent with the autoimmune condition. Now, at 6 months postpartem, I went for a checkup and my TSH is at 78.41!!! The doctor couldn't believe it when I said I was feeling fine. I'm tired, but no more tired than you'd expect taking care of a small baby. I had a virus a week ago and have been a bit sluggish since, but I figured that was just from being sick. The doc prescribed Levothyroxine sodium 50 mcg and told me to take one a day. I told him I'd heard that the T3 and T4 combined drugs are better (but haven't really done the research) and he said that he didn't agree with that and wouldn't prescribe it for me. I'm breastfeeding exclusively and he said if I don't act quickly and start taking the prescription, it could become hard to breastfeed and function normally. He said if I bottom out it will be weeks before I feel normal again and it could affect how I interact with my baby and husband. I am so scared and so upset. I don't know what to do. I guess I should fill the prescription...but I'm thinking maybe have the test done again and see another doctor first? I'm also about to move cross country and am incredibly stressed. Please give me some advice. I'm really at a loss here...


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KermitII63* 
I just got back from the endocrinologist and was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. I had a hoshimotos diagnosis right before getting pregant and my TSH levels were completely normal throughout the pregnancy (between one and two). My thyroid was enlarged though, with increased blood flow, which he said was consistent with the autoimmune condition. Now, at 6 months postpartem, I went for a checkup and my TSH is at 78.41!!! The doctor couldn't believe it when I said I was feeling fine. I'm tired, but no more tired than you'd expect taking care of a small baby. I had a virus a week ago and have been a bit sluggish since, but I figured that was just from being sick. The doc prescribed Levothyroxine sodium 50 mcg and told me to take one a day. I told him I'd heard that the T3 and T4 combined drugs are better (but haven't really done the research) and he said that he didn't agree with that and wouldn't prescribe it for me. I'm breastfeeding exclusively and he said if I don't act quickly and start taking the prescription, it could become hard to breastfeed and function normally. He said if I bottom out it will be weeks before I feel normal again and it could affect how I interact with my baby and husband. I am so scared and so upset. I don't know what to do. I guess I should fill the prescription...but I'm thinking maybe have the test done again and see another doctor first? I'm also about to move cross country and am incredibly stressed. Please give me some advice. I'm really at a loss here...

My results were a little higher than yours (just over 100) when I was dx'ed at 6 months pp. I was in much worse shape but had only been having truly obvious symptoms (rather than "no more tired than you'd expect with a baby") for about a month- my milk supply dropped, I started falling asleep anytime I sat down to nurse, was SO tired that I slept for 19 hours several days a week... Yadda yadda. It has taken more than "a few weeks" to get back to normal (and I still don't consider myself at "normal" and honestly wonder if I ever will be again). It took me a couple of months of pumping for 20 minutes every 2 hours and nursing then nursing more then nursing with a (can't remember the word- like a Lact-aid?) SNS to get my supply back to where it needed to be. I took the Levothyroxine when they gave it to me (I could barely think to put 2 words together at the time- I seriously forgot what I was saying in mid-word, much less mid-sentence.). It got me functional and then I started researching and asked my doctor to switch me to Armour- she refused (also refused to run antibody testing). I showed her the door and went to my ND who ran tests and switched me to Nature-Throid (6 months post dx) then Armour (last January) and am now on compounded thyroid (since January). I also have a new doctor who is much more receptive.
This has been my experience. I know there are other people on this board who've had different experiences.
Two very informative sites are stopthethyroidmadness.com and ithyroid.com, fwiw.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
but just read on Stop The Thyroid Madness that people with Hashi's should be on 50mg (following an iodine loading test).







Yeesh.
Being sick is expensive.







And that's not even mentioning the social costs.

Duuuuuuuuude, that is a lot of iodine. I mean, I don't doubt that some people need that much, but wow, it would take me a long time to work up to that. I am taking just a few drops of Iosol and it has increased needs for mag and C like crazy. The package says it has 1800 micrograms per dropperful. So even if I took the whole dropperful, that is only 1.8 milligrams.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KermitII63* 
I just got back from the endocrinologist and was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. I had a hoshimotos diagnosis right before getting pregant and my TSH levels were completely normal throughout the pregnancy (between one and two). My thyroid was enlarged though, with increased blood flow, which he said was consistent with the autoimmune condition. Now, at 6 months postpartem, I went for a checkup and my TSH is at 78.41!!! The doctor couldn't believe it when I said I was feeling fine. I'm tired, but no more tired than you'd expect taking care of a small baby. I had a virus a week ago and have been a bit sluggish since, but I figured that was just from being sick. The doc prescribed Levothyroxine sodium 50 mcg and told me to take one a day. I told him I'd heard that the T3 and T4 combined drugs are better (but haven't really done the research) and he said that he didn't agree with that and wouldn't prescribe it for me. I'm breastfeeding exclusively and he said if I don't act quickly and start taking the prescription, it could become hard to breastfeed and function normally. He said if I bottom out it will be weeks before I feel normal again and it could affect how I interact with my baby and husband. I am so scared and so upset. I don't know what to do. I guess I should fill the prescription...but I'm thinking maybe have the test done again and see another doctor first? I'm also about to move cross country and am incredibly stressed. Please give me some advice. I'm really at a loss here...

No one can tell you what to do. You have to decide for yourself, but I can say that I personally wouldn't leave a tsh that high untreated. This is just based on my experience living with this disease. I guess everyone is different. One time my tsh got up to 11 and I felt like hell. You have a few options

1. Go see a naturopath next week that can start you on some kind of natural treatment.

2. Just take the levothyroxine and see how you feel

3. Temporarily start the levothyroxine until you find an MD that is natural minded.

Moving is really stressful. B complex has helped me with stress in the past. I started with 50 mg. Something simple you can add that really can't hurt is sea salt. Also, some people find magnesium helpful for stress (including me!). Just start slow. If you take too much magnesium, you will know b/c your bowels will loosen.







Those are just some things that have helped me with my stress while trying to find a good dr and get well. Sometimes finding the right dr and treatment is a journey. I'm sure moving complicates that for you.

The sites recommended by JacquelineR are really helpful.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Duuuuuuuuude, that is a lot of iodine. I mean, I don't doubt that some people need that much, but wow, it would take me a long time to work up to that. I am taking just a few drops of Iosol and it has increased needs for mag and C like crazy. The package says it has 1800 micrograms per dropperful. So even if I took the whole dropperful, that is only 1.8 milligrams.

I don't suppose you know how much that is per drop?


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KermitII63* 
I just got back from the endocrinologist and was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. I had a hoshimotos diagnosis right before getting pregant and my TSH levels were completely normal throughout the pregnancy (between one and two). My thyroid was enlarged though, with increased blood flow, which he said was consistent with the autoimmune condition. Now, at 6 months postpartem, I went for a checkup and my TSH is at 78.41!!! The doctor couldn't believe it when I said I was feeling fine. I'm tired, but no more tired than you'd expect taking care of a small baby. I had a virus a week ago and have been a bit sluggish since, but I figured that was just from being sick. The doc prescribed Levothyroxine sodium 50 mcg and told me to take one a day. I told him I'd heard that the T3 and T4 combined drugs are better (but haven't really done the research) and he said that he didn't agree with that and wouldn't prescribe it for me. I'm breastfeeding exclusively and he said if I don't act quickly and start taking the prescription, it could become hard to breastfeed and function normally. He said if I bottom out it will be weeks before I feel normal again and it could affect how I interact with my baby and husband. I am so scared and so upset. I don't know what to do. I guess I should fill the prescription...but I'm thinking maybe have the test done again and see another doctor first? I'm also about to move cross country and am incredibly stressed. Please give me some advice. I'm really at a loss here...


I just found an endo who believes in a combo of T3 and T4 drugs. So if that's what you want....keep looking. Your current doc may not be right for you.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Duuuuuuuuude, that is a lot of iodine. I mean, I don't doubt that some people need that much, but wow, it would take me a long time to work up to that. I am taking just a few drops of Iosol and it has increased needs for mag and C like crazy. The package says it has 1800 micrograms per dropperful. So even if I took the whole dropperful, that is only 1.8 milligrams.

50 MG/day is recommended by the Iodine Project Researchers for thyroid problems, with mangesium rather than calcium emphasized supplements, and C and B.

http://www.iodine4health.com/ortho/ortho.htm
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
50 MG/day is recommended by the Iodine Project Researchers for thyroid problems, with mangesium rather than calcium emphasized supplements, and C and B.

http://www.iodine4health.com/ortho/ortho.htm
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

I'm not putting it down, but I'm certainly not ready to go up that high yet.


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## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

I have a question ... I just got a cortisone shot because I'm really sick with bronchitis/pleurisy and was wondering if this will affect my thyroid/meds at all. I'm supposed to go in this week for my endo visit and blood test and was wondering if it would hurt anything.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adamsmama* 
I'm confused... are you not supposed to take medicine before getting the TSH test done? No one told me that...

I was going off what Jacqueline said; that she took them but she wasn't supposed to.

I don't have specific knowledge either way. Just if you're not supposed to take something for bw and do, it might be a good idea to redo it.

V


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

I'm tired and waiting for bw to come back. Trying to plot my next move.

The one odd thing I noticed was my temp at the doc's office the other day was 97 F. And I was all flustered and hot from toddler wrangling too. Just an interesting tidbit. I've had low temps in the past, but not for a long while. Usually I'm normal

V


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
I was going off what Jacqueline said; that she took them but she wasn't supposed to.

I don't have specific knowledge either way. Just if you're not supposed to take something for bw and do, it might be a good idea to redo it.

V

I'm obviously brain fogged. It took me this long to remember that it doesn't matter so much for TSH, only FT4 and FT3 counts, neither of which were drawn so I'm okay with that.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

...


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
1800 microg/ 25 drops = 72 microg

Ok, then I can say that you and I are pretty much in the same boat. I started taking just one drop of iodine (75mcg) and started having detox symptoms (breaking out, mostly).


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Jacqueline,

That makes me feel better. My biggest detox symptom is anxiety, but that could also be from my own thoughts. I'm going to work on some self help stuff and take C and mag at every meal to see if that helps. I basically have to allow myself lots of breaks and focus on the present moment. I would love to gradually increase. I will report back what my TSH is when I get it checked in six months.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Jacqueline,

That makes me feel better. My biggest detox symptom is anxiety, but that could also be from my own thoughts. I'm going to work on some self help stuff and take C and mag at every meal to see if that helps. I basically have to allow myself lots of breaks and focus on the present moment. I would love to gradually increase. I will report back what my TSH is when I get it checked in six months.

Yeah, I've had emotional symptoms as well but emotions are less tangible and my memory's terrible atm.


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## heartmommyak (Jun 23, 2009)

This is my first time posting here and I was hoping to get some support and advice. Background: I was diagnosed about six months ago with hypo (levels were 10.78 or so), and three months later after being on levo, it's a 1.99. So despite still feeling drained, I'm cured right? Well according to the nurse at my dr's office I should be fine, and I don't need to be tested for another year since I'm stable. Anyhow. 3-4 months ago (so after the levo should have kicked in), I'm 95% certain that I stopped ovulating and normally I run 5 week cycles, but this past cycle was 8 weeks. So I call and tell my dr's nurse about this and that I'm concerned and did bring up the hypo, but obviously something's not right. She said she'd talk with the dr (who's a family dr/ob/gyn) and I'd get a call back within two days. A week later, still no call or anything. I suppose I could call the dr office again to follow up but I don't feel like I should have to... and I'm really wondering if I should just make an appt with an endo. We have five endos in the area (actually all are just over an hour away) and I know nothing about any of them, so it would be a shot in the dark as to which one I should try going with. Also, I'm not even positive as to what my dr has tested with me so far (I know they got at least the one thyroid level, but I've read in several sources that there are several tests that should be done to more correctly diagnose the source of the thryoid problem thus leading to a better treatment). I do really like my dr and want to stay with her at least for the time being (not necessarily for the thyroid stuff, but as an ob/gyn), so I don't want to burn any bridges. But I'm so fustrated. And we want to TTC soon, so that makes want to be very vigilant in getting my thyroid properly treated (which I'm not convinced is happening at the moment). What would you do given these circumstances? How do you go about deciding which endo to go with if you know nothing about any of them? What's the norm with testing once you are pregnant? I can't remember the name of it, but there's that one type of thyroid problems shortly after giving birth... I was diagnosed as being hypo almost two years after having my dd, is that too long after having my dd to have that particular type? My dr did _not_ suggest that, but I wondered. Thank you in advance for any information and/or advice.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmommyak* 
This is my first time posting here and I was hoping to get some support and advice. Background: I was diagnosed about six months ago with hypo (levels were 10.78 or so), and three months later after being on levo, it's a 1.99. So despite still feeling drained, I'm cured right? Well according to the nurse at my dr's office I should be fine, and I don't need to be tested for another year since I'm stable. Anyhow. 3-4 months ago (so after the levo should have kicked in), I'm 95% certain that I stopped ovulating and normally I run 5 week cycles, but this past cycle was 8 weeks. So I call and tell my dr's nurse about this and that I'm concerned and did bring up the hypo, but obviously something's not right. She said she'd talk with the dr (who's a family dr/ob/gyn) and I'd get a call back within two days. A week later, still no call or anything. I suppose I could call the dr office again to follow up but I don't feel like I should have to... and I'm really wondering if I should just make an appt with an endo. We have five endos in the area (actually all are just over an hour away) and I know nothing about any of them, so it would be a shot in the dark as to which one I should try going with. Also, I'm not even positive as to what my dr has tested with me so far (I know they got at least the one thyroid level, but I've read in several sources that there are several tests that should be done to more correctly diagnose the source of the thryoid problem thus leading to a better treatment). I do really like my dr and want to stay with her at least for the time being (not necessarily for the thyroid stuff, but as an ob/gyn), so I don't want to burn any bridges. But I'm so fustrated. And we want to TTC soon, so that makes want to be very vigilant in getting my thyroid properly treated (which I'm not convinced is happening at the moment). What would you do given these circumstances? How do you go about deciding which endo to go with if you know nothing about any of them? What's the norm with testing once you are pregnant? I can't remember the name of it, but there's that one type of thyroid problems shortly after giving birth... I was diagnosed as being hypo almost two years after having my dd, is that too long after having my dd to have that particular type? My dr did _not_ suggest that, but I wondered. Thank you in advance for any information and/or advice.

Ok, a few things.
Firstly, sometimes when a person still has symptoms (usually fatigue, although there may be others as well), there is an adrenal problem which is at play. Most allopathic physicians will not test for adrenal issues beyond perhaps Addison's or one other disease of which I can't presently remember the name.
Secondly, sometimes when a person is on synthetic thyroid hormone, there is a problem with impaired conversion from T4 to T3 resulting in ok TSH results but remaining symptoms. This MAY be addressed by supplementing with selenium but that's kind of a crap shoot. This is where the natural dessicated thyroid products usually come into play and most likely why the majority of people on this thread seem to be on some form of them.
Regarding post-partum thyroiditis, I believe the "cut off" is 2 years post-partum. I was also reading recently that thyroid antibodies are usually found in this instance (as well as Hashimoto's, to be clear). The most common time for this issue to be found is approximately 6 months post-partum.
Levels should be tested at least monthly once pregnant to be certain that they are *optimal*. Optimal is particularly important in pregnancy, as even slightly lower levels of thyroid hormone *can* cause problems.

That's all I can tell you. I hope it's helpful.

eta: And I'm sorry for the diagnosis and symptoms.







I hope you find a doctor who will be helpful.


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## heartmommyak (Jun 23, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Regarding post-partum thyroiditis, I believe the "cut off" is 2 years post-partum. I was also reading recently that thyroid antibodies are usually found in this instance (as well as Hashimoto's, to be clear). The most common time for this issue to be found is approximately 6 months post-partum.

Thank you for your (quick!) response, and you were helpful.

Regarding the post-partum thyroiditis, I'll have to look into this some more and part of the reason (I should have mentioned this in my origional post) I'm wondering about this in particular is because we had some major health issues with my dd and with all of that combined with being a first time mom, I don't think I would have noticed any symptoms as being anything other than being run down and understandly stressed. So it makes me wonder if I had this going on for a while and didn't realize it until I could finally concentrate on myself.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmommyak* 
Thank you for your (quick!) response, and you were helpful.

Regarding the post-partum thyroiditis, I'll have to look into this some more and part of the reason (I should have mentioned this in my origional post) I'm wondering about this in particular is because we had some major health issues with my dd and with all of that combined with being a first time mom, I don't think I would have noticed any symptoms as being anything other than being run down and understandly stressed. So it makes me wonder if I had this going on for a while and didn't realize it until I could finally concentrate on myself.

That is very possible. During times of stress, our thyroids and adrenals may go into "overproduction" mode as well, which would have protected you to some extent from crashing during that period. Your levels make me think that it was caught pretty quickly but everyone is different. Just because it only takes me a month or so to rack my TSH up to 10ish doesn't mean it couldn't take you 10 or 20 months to do so.
I would suggest adding a B complex to your regimen if you don't already take one, as well as vitamin C. Our adrenals use (and store) both to produce our stress hormones so it's possible that after such a stressful period, your stores may be low.
You may want to look at ithyroid.com and stopthethyroidmadness.com as well for some more nutritional (and general) information.


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## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

I have a question: Can I take phenlyephrine while on L-thyroxine tablets/hypo? I'm really sick and it says on the back, ask a dr. if you have thyroid disease.


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## KermitII63 (Oct 29, 2009)

Thank you so much for the advice and support. I had my bloodwork redone to make sure it wasn't a mistake (I figured labs make mistakes, right?) and my TSH was in the 50s this time. Still crazy high. So I started the meds and will find a naturopath after I move...at least I'm doing something, I'm terrified of bottoming out. Thanks again for the help.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
I'm not putting it down, but I'm certainly not ready to go up that high yet.

I can't either. My detox pathways still cannot handle it. But once you learn that there is iodine receptors all over the body, it quickly makes sense why we need so much for the body to work properly. See "THE Iodine Thread".

I know I've been exposed to a lot of soy, chlorine, fluoride and bromide over the years which kicked out and replaced my iodine stores for sure.

My intuition is telling me the fact that I'm still eating gluten (albeit mostly soaked/sprouted) could be a major issue so I'm going GF. Again.


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## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

Went to the endo last week and got my blood test results back today. My DH and I really want to TTC this month or next (I should be Oing soon ... so we are ttc this week) and my endo said it is fine -- my results were TSH 2.3 which is a lot lower than they have ever been -- the highest was at almost 6. About 10 weeks ago when they were last checked they were 3.8. He upped my meds just slightly in December -- I cut out gluten/wheat products over the past month completely (although I probably am still getting some gluten -- I haven't cut out oats and had a hamburger recently that had a little bread stuck to it, etc.) I did this to cut down on yeast and to see if it helped my thyroid. I would like to try to add back in some whole wheat but is that bad idea? I didn't have any obvious signs of gluten-intolerance or celiac...except for extra gas when eating whole wheat and constipation which doesn't seem to be helped by diet change. I did lose some weight since changing my diet -- but I'm sure it is because I'm not eating bread/cakes anymore and I'm on a low-sugar diet, too. So ... is it possible that gluten-free affected my thyroid? I'm slightly afraid that it could impact it negatively if I add it back in to my diet. I want to keep my TSH around 2 or lower during pg.

On a side note, I started using flouride rinse about mid/late Jan and had terrible negative reaction within a few days of using it. My endo didn't think it was related since I didn't swallow it but it definately affected my thyroid. It made me feel just like soy makes me feel -- hyper, insomnia, anxious, sweating, heart racing. I'm staying away from flouride from now on. I don't know why it would affect me like that.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

So I saw the UAV endo today







. Despite his condescension and irritation with me (yet another 'stupid' patient), I learned that while my blood work is normal, I probably have Hashimoto's because my thyroid is enlarged and my aunt has it.

So what next?

He said they can't test for antibodies to find out for sure. Is that true?

I know I need a new endo b/c this one is just UAV UAV UAV UAV.

Edit: I found this study supporting not only testing for antibodies but also thyroid medication.

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/hypothyr...ashivshypo.htm
"The practice of treating patients who have Hashimoto's thyroiditis but normal range thyroid function tests is supported by a study, reported on in the March 2001 issue of the journal Thyroid. In this study, German researchers reported that use of levothyroxine treatment for cases of Hashimoto's autoimmune thyroiditis where TSH had not yet elevated beyond normal range (people who were considered "euthyroid") could reduce the incidence and degree of autoimmune disease progression.

In the study of 21 patients with euthyroid Hashimoto's Thyroiditis (normal range TSH, but elevated antibodies), half of the patients were treated with levothyroxine for a year, the other half were not treated. After 1 year of therapy with levothyroxine, the antibody levels and lymphocytes (evidence of inflammation) decreased significantly only in the group receiving the medication. Among the untreated group, the antibody levels rose or remained the same. "
V


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Adamamama--I don't have celiac or actually any gastro issues with gluten, but it still messes with me. Fatigue, mood issues, stuff like that. Even though GF is a pain, it's been worthwhile for us. I've been working on my health issues and so I haven't been pregnant and GF, but maybe next year I'll be ready. Oats usually have quite a bit of gluten, as far as I can tell--we haven't trialled them for a variety of reasons. I lost weight and felt better when I cut out gluten and dairy.

If you want to look into any level of nutritional supplementation, like zinc and selenium, ithyroid.com is a place to read. That improved my thyroid function a few years ago.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Violet, there's a study out there that lowered antibody levels significantly with supplemental selenium. They used 200mcg which is a pretty reasonable dosage IMO.


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## koalove (Apr 18, 2007)

hi! i was just dx with hypo and of course i ran to mdc for advice from all the lovely mamas here! i have lots of questions and am having a hard time finding answers online and this thread, while informative, is dizzying to read all the posts so forgive me if i aske common questions that have been answered 100's of times! so, backgroud is... i have an 8 month old, plus 3 other kiddos. i started having wacky periods so i asked for a hormone test and ultrasound to check for fibroids. alll that was find but tsh came back at 14. t4 is not normal, but i cant rememebr the number exactly and the dr. office cant find my labs!! just super, eh?! my symptoms are:
tired, memory loss, foggy mind, no sex drive, irregular bleeding, gaining weight dispite good eating and exercise, moody~ very frusterated with my kids, low body temp (ive actually bought and tossed out 3 termometers in the last 8 months because they always stop at 97.6!), low breast milk production, and thats about it. ive always just thought it was motherhood that did it to me.
heres my questions
1. what was your tsh number when you were dx?
2.did you loose weight when you started medication and if so, how much?
3.do i need to see an endocrinologist or is my pcp enough?
4. if this is related to post partum, will it go away?
5. my doc wants to do antibody tests so should we do those before i start medication?
6. i eat lots of tofu, tempeh and soy milk, do i need to stop or will cutting back be enough? why do soy foods even have anything to do with this?
7. i started the meds today and its called levothroxine~ is that synthroid or a generic?
8. if thats a generic, should i ask for the real thing, and what is the real thing called?
9. how long till you started feeling better after the meds started?
thanks sooo much to anyone who tries to answer these questions. i appriciate it!


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Ok, then I can say that you and I are pretty much in the same boat. I started taking just one drop of iodine (75mcg) and started having detox symptoms (breaking out, mostly).

Oooh I'm a big dummy. Serving size I just read on the back is one drop, not a dropperful. So I'm taking 1800 micrograms/day which is 1.8 milligrams/day. Oh man I'm glad I didn't start with a dropperful.

I've been taking a drop a day with lots of C and mag and it is going fine.


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## Blueone (Sep 12, 2009)

Does anyone track their BBT for thyroid status?

I was told by my endo to track it on day 2-5 and if it was below 97.8 a majority of the time (most have to be at or above it) that I needed a raise in my dose.

If so, what thermometer do you use? I was told a glass was the best and so far that's been true. I trust it well over a digital.


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## HappyMommy2 (Jan 27, 2007)

Does anyone take Priority One Thyroid? My ND calls it a *somethingIcantRemember* of Armour, meaning a generic form of it.

I changed to it from levothyroxine about 5 weeks ago.

I was on 130, but felt too low. She told me to double it 2 weeks ago. Now I feel to high. She said there is no pill in smaller dosage and to alternate taking 1 & 2 every other day.

This is bogus and scary to me. I don't want to be on an emotional and physical roller coaster.

Today was my first day taking one, and it was horrible. Cranky, exhausted, impatient. Although my period started tonight too.

Is Armour totally a pain to find with the backorder issues?? It appears that it has 30 and 60mg dosing...

thanks mamas

ETA: I have hashimoto's hypothyroid and was on 175 of levo...


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HappyMommy2* 
Does anyone take Priority One Thyroid? My ND calls it a *somethingIcantRemember* of Armour, meaning a generic form of it.

I changed to it from levothyroxine about 5 weeks ago.

I was on 130, but felt too low. She told me to double it 2 weeks ago. Now I feel to high. She said there is no pill in smaller dosage and to alternate taking 1 & 2 every other day.

This is bogus and scary to me. I don't want to be on an emotional and physical roller coaster.

Today was my first day taking one, and it was horrible. Cranky, exhausted, impatient. Although my period started tonight too.

Is Armour totally a pain to find with the backorder issues?? It appears that it has 30 and 60mg dosing...

thanks mamas

ETA: I have hashimoto's hypothyroid and was on 175 of levo...

Armour is nearly impossible to find right now, as are both Naturethroid and Westthroid. I am getting my dessicated thyroid from an apothecary/compounding pharmacy and they just increased my dose by 15mg. They're mailing all over the country right now (with prescriptions, of course). If you want their info, pm me.


----------



## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blueone* 
Does anyone track their BBT for thyroid status?

I was told by my endo to track it on day 2-5 and if it was below 97.8 a majority of the time (most have to be at or above it) that I needed a raise in my dose.

If so, what thermometer do you use? I was told a glass was the best and so far that's been true. I trust it well over a digital.

Hey there...

I take my bbt to avoid pregnancy. I got a digital one off of amazon. I like it a lot. My temp is about 97.8ish until I ovulate. I do think I'm a little hypo right now...I've been sleeping 9 hours a night







I feel kinda lame going to bed at 9pm, but that is the only way I can function. I hope that helps.


----------



## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HappyMommy2* 
Does anyone take Priority One Thyroid? My ND calls it a *somethingIcantRemember* of Armour, meaning a generic form of it.

I changed to it from levothyroxine about 5 weeks ago.

I was on 130, but felt too low. She told me to double it 2 weeks ago. Now I feel to high. She said there is no pill in smaller dosage and to alternate taking 1 & 2 every other day.

This is bogus and scary to me. I don't want to be on an emotional and physical roller coaster.

Today was my first day taking one, and it was horrible. Cranky, exhausted, impatient. Although my period started tonight too.

Is Armour totally a pain to find with the backorder issues?? It appears that it has 30 and 60mg dosing...

thanks mamas

ETA: I have hashimoto's hypothyroid and was on 175 of levo...


you can cut it in half! so you could take 1.5 a day. Get a pill cutter or just cut it on a cutting board with a cheese knife. Good luck. And yes, I always think something is wrong with me the few days before my period starts. It is no joke! But then my period starts, and I'm like ahhhh...no wonder I was such a witch


----------



## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *koalove* 
hi! i was just dx with hypo and of course i ran to mdc for advice from all the lovely mamas here! i have lots of questions and am having a hard time finding answers online and this thread, while informative, is dizzying to read all the posts so forgive me if i aske common questions that have been answered 100's of times! so, backgroud is... i have an 8 month old, plus 3 other kiddos. i started having wacky periods so i asked for a hormone test and ultrasound to check for fibroids. alll that was find but tsh came back at 14. t4 is not normal, but i cant rememebr the number exactly and the dr. office cant find my labs!! just super, eh?! my symptoms are:
tired, memory loss, foggy mind, no sex drive, irregular bleeding, gaining weight dispite good eating and exercise, moody~ very frusterated with my kids, low body temp (ive actually bought and tossed out 3 termometers in the last 8 months because they always stop at 97.6!), low breast milk production, and thats about it. ive always just thought it was motherhood that did it to me.
heres my questions
1. what was your tsh number when you were dx?
2.did you loose weight when you started medication and if so, how much?
3.do i need to see an endocrinologist or is my pcp enough?
4. if this is related to post partum, will it go away?
5. my doc wants to do antibody tests so should we do those before i start medication?
6. i eat lots of tofu, tempeh and soy milk, do i need to stop or will cutting back be enough? why do soy foods even have anything to do with this?
7. i started the meds today and its called levothroxine~ is that synthroid or a generic?
8. if thats a generic, should i ask for the real thing, and what is the real thing called?
9. how long till you started feeling better after the meds started?
thanks sooo much to anyone who tries to answer these questions. i appriciate it!


I don't remember too much, but I did start feeling better after a couple of days. I like the real thing better, but my insurance required me to try the generic first. Yes, you should avoid soy, but I'm not perfect about it honestly.


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
you can cut it in half! so you could take 1.5 a day. Get a pill cutter or just cut it on a cutting board with a cheese knife. Good luck. And yes, I always think something is wrong with me the few days before my period starts. It is no joke! But then my period starts, and I'm like ahhhh...no wonder I was such a witch









or that.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *koalove* 
<snip>
heres my questions
1. what was your tsh number when you were dx?
2.did you loose weight when you started medication and if so, how much?
3.do i need to see an endocrinologist or is my pcp enough?
4. if this is related to post partum, will it go away?
5. my doc wants to do antibody tests so should we do those before i start medication?
6. i eat lots of tofu, tempeh and soy milk, do i need to stop or will cutting back be enough? why do soy foods even have anything to do with this?
7. i started the meds today and its called levothroxine~ is that synthroid or a generic?
8. if thats a generic, should i ask for the real thing, and what is the real thing called?
9. how long till you started feeling better after the meds started?
thanks sooo much to anyone who tries to answer these questions. i appriciate it!

1. >100
2. 5 lbs
3. i just see my pcp
4. no one can tell you that
5. yes, they usually decrease after medication is started
6. Soy foods are goitrogens (as are brassicas: broccoli, cauliflower, canola etc and millet and a few others I can't recall atm). They prevent the body from properly using iodine. I cut back drastically on all goitrogens.
7. I don't know for sure. Levothyroxine is the name for both, but it's probably the generic. Ask your pharmacy and make sure, if you stay with the synthetics, that they don't switch brands on you.
9. about a week i started feeling better- not falling asleep constantly etc, but im still not "back to normal" but my antibody levels are INSANELY high


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Hey there...

I take my bbt to avoid pregnancy. I got a digital one off of amazon. I like it a lot. My temp is about 97.8ish until I ovulate. I do think I'm a little hypo right now...I've been sleeping 9 hours a night







I feel kinda lame going to bed at 9pm, but that is the only way I can function. I hope that helps.

awwww don't feel lame I'm usually headed to bed then too









Plus it's better for the adrenals to asleep by 10pm so look at it as a good thing


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Just wanted to post my experience here with acupuncture. I had 6 sessions then had my thyroid checked. My TSH is a 2.5, my T3 and T4 are also in normal range and my thyoid antibodies are a lot lower!!! First time things have been normal for almost 2 years. Thought I would share


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Just wanted to post my experience here with acupuncture. I had 6 sessions then had my thyroid checked. My TSH is a 2.5, my T3 and T4 are also in normal range and my thyoid antibodies are a lot lower!!! First time things have been normal for almost 2 years. Thought I would share


----------



## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Just wanted to post my experience here with acupuncture. I had 6 sessions then had my thyroid checked. My TSH is a 2.5, my T3 and T4 are also in normal range and my thyoid antibodies are a lot lower!!! First time things have been normal for almost 2 years. Thought I would share









Wow that is awesome! Were you doing anything differently?

I have been feeling really crappy this winter, but now that spring is here I feel like myself again. Woohoo!!!! This time change actually fits my schedule better.


----------



## Blueone (Sep 12, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Hey there...

I take my bbt to avoid pregnancy. I got a digital one off of amazon. I like it a lot. My temp is about 97.8ish until I ovulate. I do think I'm a little hypo right now...I've been sleeping 9 hours a night







I feel kinda lame going to bed at 9pm, but that is the only way I can function. I hope that helps.

My doctor said it's ideal to get 9 hours of sleep. I go to bed around 9 too. Any later and I'm tired. But my son gets up at 6.


----------



## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blueone* 
My doctor said it's ideal to get 9 hours of sleep. I go to bed around 9 too. Any later and I'm tired. But my son gets up at 6.

Wow I didn't know that. I thought that if you slept more than 8 hours/night you were depressed or had something wrong. Good to know! A lot of people sleep in on the weekend and as a mom I can't do that....so maybe this is my way of staying rested. At least once a week I like to stay up past my kids bedtime though. I'd say they sleep like 10 hours/ night.


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Wow that is awesome! Were you doing anything differently?

I have been feeling really crappy this winter, but now that spring is here I feel like myself again. Woohoo!!!! This time change actually fits my schedule better.

acupuncture....I've been off naturthroid since summer. That's great that your feeling better


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

This was posted on H&H already but I'm not getting many responses so I'm hoping I will get more here









We finally got some blood work done on DD basically her ND and I were worried she could have a thyroid issue based on her symptoms so here's her results...I'm really trying to figure this out but it's not at all what I expected.

Her thyroid looks pretty good but T4 is slightly elevated.
T4-1.6(high) normal is .9-1.4 so not sure what this means
T3 3.5
TSH 2.56

Creatinine(not sure if speling correct) is low at .30 so this indicates decreased muscle mass so she needs more protein right??? What could be causing this? How much protein does a 21 month old need daily?

Vit D was a little low at a 45.

potassium is high at a 5.7 but we had blood drawn first thing in the am so she didn't have a lot of water so not to concerned about this one for the moment.

Chlosterol high at a 180
triglycerides-84(low)
HDL-37(low)
LDL-129(high)

So this is odd to me. WE eat healthy which in my mind is lots or raw milk,raw cheese, butter,grass fed meats,wild salmon, organic fruit and veg(however DD won't touch a veg), so mainly traditional foods. Anyone know what this means is going on? All I think is her liver may be sluggish but her liver enzymes came back normal. She had everything checked including minerals and all of that was normal. Any thoughts mamas??


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

mom61508,
my first thought is impaired conversion of t4 to t3.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

That is a very high potassium. Was it a little tiny vial to collect blood? It might have coagulated. That is abnormally high. I'd consider some kidney and liver function follow up. Or repeat the blood draw, perhaps.

Pat


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
mom61508,
my first thought is impaired conversion of t4 to t3.

Wouldn't her T3 be off though? Could that have to do with iodine deficiency?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
That is a very high potassium. Was it a little tiny vial to collect blood? It might have coagulated. That is abnormally high. I'd consider some kidney and liver function follow up. Or repeat the blood draw, perhaps.

Pat

We are repeating in 6 weeks. The fact that we did it first thing in the AM could be a reason for the high Potassium right? They took 3 small vials. Her liver looked good and all her other kidney labs looked good as well. I just can't figure any of this out?? I really don't understand why her cholesterol would be so high either


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
We are repeating in 6 weeks. The fact that we did it first thing in the AM could be a reason for the high Potassium right? They took 3 small vials. Her liver looked good and all her other kidney labs looked good as well. I just can't figure any of this out?? I really don't understand why her cholesterol would be so high either









The time of day should not affect the potassium to that degree, imo.

Were the blood collection vials tiny "pinky" size or bigger "forefinger" sized? The tiny ones will coagulate too quickly, if the site was not flowing freely. That could alter the potassium, more than other results.

I personally would not worry about her cholesterol! I'd be sure to include Omega 3 fatty acids, avoid Omega 6 (seed oils) and continue the grass-fed saturated fats, alongside some food folate sources (green smoothies?, pureed greens hidden in meals, or a mthf-folate source)

Pat


----------



## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Wow I didn't know that. I thought that if you slept more than 8 hours/night you were depressed or had something wrong. Good to know! A lot of people sleep in on the weekend and as a mom I can't do that....so maybe this is my way of staying rested. At least once a week I like to stay up past my kids bedtime though. I'd say they sleep like 10 hours/ night.

I think those of us working on health issues that have been building a while often need more sleep than average, and probably more than we will after we feel good. There's individual variation as well, but for me, I was really rundown, it was a slow process that took a couple decades, and extra sleep now, while I really pamper myself, is helpful in getting back to normal good functioning.


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
mom61508,
my first thought is impaired conversion of t4 to t3.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
That is a very high potassium. Was it a little tiny vial to collect blood? It might have coagulated. That is abnormally high. I'd consider some kidney and liver function follow up. Or repeat the blood draw, perhaps.

Pat


Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
The time of day should not affect the potassium to that degree, imo.

Were the blood collection vials tiny "pinky" size or bigger "forefinger" sized? The tiny ones will coagulate too quickly, if the site was not flowing freely. That could alter the potassium, more than other results.

I personally would not worry about her cholesterol! I'd be sure to include Omega 3 fatty acids, avoid Omega 6 (seed oils) and continue the grass-fed saturated fats, alongside some food folate sources (green smoothies?, pureed greens hidden in meals, or a mthf-folate source)

Pat

I think 2 forefinger sizes and 1 pinky size but I'm not 100% sure. I also don't THINK it was flowing freely...but geez It's hard to remember because I was holding down my poor baby and trying to distract her







She won't touch veg...used to love green smoothies but not so much anymore. What about something like greens first?? Haha not sure why all those quotes showed up :/


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Wouldn't her T3 be off though? Could that have to do with iodine deficiency?

According to thyroid.about.com, the "normal" reference range for T3 should be 3.5 - 7.7. Assuming that that is the case, I would say that a T3 falling right on the low end "cut off line" with a T4 that's through the roof shows an impaired conversion. I would think it would probably have more to do with selenium deficiency, although I believe there are a couple of other nutrients involved, which I can't recall atm.

eta: also the most recent studies are suggesting a cut off TSH of 2.5 so that's also borderline...


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
What about something like greens first??

What do you mean? I don't understand the question.

Any greens are folate sources, basically. 5-MTHF is a folate supplement, chemically 'similar' to food folate.

Pat


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
According to thyroid.about.com, the "normal" reference range for T3 should be 3.5 - 7.7. Assuming that that is the case, I would say that a T3 falling right on the low end "cut off line" with a T4 that's through the roof shows an impaired conversion. I would think it would probably have more to do with selenium deficiency, although I believe there are a couple of other nutrients involved, which I can't recall atm.

eta: also the most recent studies are suggesting a cut off TSH of 2.5 so that's also borderline...

Gotcha...thanks for this info...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
What do you mean? I don't understand the question.

Any greens are folate sources, basically. 5-MTHF is a folate supplement, chemically 'similar' to food folate.

Pat

http://www.amazon.com/Greens-First-P.../dp/B0006GISQ6 Sorry wasn't very clear on that...


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Deleted because I was confused about what a high TSH level means...I was thinking it meant hyperthyroid...


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
According to thyroid.about.com, the "normal" reference range for T3 should be 3.5 - 7.7. Assuming that that is the case, I would say that a T3 falling right on the low end "cut off line" with a T4 that's through the roof shows an impaired conversion. I would think it would probably have more to do with selenium deficiency, although I believe there are a couple of other nutrients involved, which I can't recall atm.

eta: also the most recent studies are suggesting a cut off TSH of 2.5 so that's also borderline...

Ok I'm confused because according to this her numbers are good. http://thyroid.about.com/library/how...yroid-test.htm Now I'm really confused or looking in the wrong place????


----------



## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
acupuncture....I've been off naturthroid since summer. That's great that your feeling better









Wow this just blows my mind. Who did you go to for your naturthyroid and tsh check (md/naturopath/endo)? Were they supportive of your natural healing?


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Ok I'm confused because according to this her numbers are good. http://thyroid.about.com/library/how...yroid-test.htm Now I'm really confused or looking in the wrong place????

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/testsfor...d/a/freet3.htm
that's free t3
no links for the 2.5 tsh atm and have to run right away. but that was the newest rec i've seen


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
Wow this just blows my mind. Who did you go to for your naturthyroid and tsh check (md/naturopath/endo)? Were they supportive of your natural healing?

naturopath plus an herbalist but I really think it was the acupuncture that helped balance me but I also take supps and herbs so maybe that too. I want to do more treatments but can't for awhile







of course my antibodies are still hanging around but you know how that goes. i also did some homeopathy for thyroid so maybe that helped a little too







Yes they are very supportive


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/testsfor...d/a/freet3.htm
that's free t3
no links for the 2.5 tsh atm and have to run right away. but that was the newest rec i've seen

Ok I thought that's what we had checked...I'll have to pull out the labs and see. Apparently I'm mixed up on things.


----------



## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

I learned recently that my Dad, dad's sister, her two daughter all have thyroid issues (and myself) we all have hypo but one of the cousins has hyperthyroid. Is this indicative of autoimmune thyroid? Also my older sister said she had "borderline results" once or twice. I asked her what they were and 7 years ago at a physical her TSH was 6.9...they told her she was fine. I told her to get it checked again and if it was over 3 she should be treated. I'm on a very low dose of synthroid and it has helped me so much.


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

[

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adamsmama* 
I learned recently that my Dad, dad's sister, her two daughter all have thyroid issues (and myself) we all have hypo but one of the cousins has hyperthyroid. Is this indicative of autoimmune thyroid? Also my older sister said she had "borderline results" once or twice. I asked her what they were and 7 years ago at a physical her TSH was 6.9...they told her she was fine. I told her to get it checked again and if it was over 3 she should be treated. I'm on a very low dose of synthroid and it has helped me so much.

Autoimmune thyroid can be hypo or hyper. I have Hashis and I fluctuated from hypo to hyper but now my labs are in normal range. Have you had your antibodies checked?


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/testsfor...d/a/freet3.htm
that's free t3
no links for the 2.5 tsh atm and have to run right away. but that was the newest rec i've seen

Her labs show her ND tested for free T3 and Free T4.


----------



## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
[

Autoimmune thyroid can be hypo or hyper. I have Hashis and I fluctuated from hypo to hyper but now my labs are in normal range. Have you had your antibodies checked?

I did once and they said it was negative. My cousin who is hyper also had negative antibodies.

My mom's side of the family has a history of nodules and thyroid cancer. It seems like I have a lot of family with thyroid issues.


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

I saw that, mom61508. I'm just trying to give you the information I have. Do with it as you see fit.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adamsmama* 
I did once and they said it was negative. My cousin who is hyper also had negative antibodies.

My mom's side of the family has a history of nodules and thyroid cancer. It seems like I have a lot of family with thyroid issues.

There's more than one antibody for which to test. There are 2 that I can think of offhand, possibly 3. Anti-TPO and Tgab.


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

JacquelineR said:


> I saw that, mom61508. I'm just trying to give you the information I have. Do with it as you see fit.
> 
> I understand that and thank you for the help
> 
> ...


----------



## arianascrunchymama (Dec 9, 2009)

I read through some of this thread and will read more later because I hear DD waking up...

Is it possible to have hypothyroidism w/o the rapid and uncontrollable weight loss? I'm still BFing my 18 month old and easily GAIN weight if I don't work out for at least 30 minutes a day! My mom did RAI about 3 months ago because she ended up having full blown Grave's Disease shortly after being diagnosed with a slightly hyperactive thyroid. I get serious fast and strong heart palps, I'll be clammy/cold/sweaty constantly, I get winded from bending down to pick up a toy, I get the shakes pretty badly during the heart palp episodes, and my hair is falling out like it did a few months PP. It's been going on for about a month only once in a while, but recently I've been experiencing all this at least every other day.

I know thyroid issues can give you trouble with your milk supply but my only issue was oversupply for the first couple months.

ETA: after reading a coulple of the links on the OP I'm thinking I may be Hypo. *sigh* I guess I have to suck it up and go to the doctor.


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arianascrunchymama* 
I read through some of this thread and will read more later because I hear DD waking up...

Is it possible to have hypothyroidism w/o the rapid and uncontrollable weight loss? I'm still BFing my 18 month old and easily GAIN weight if I don't work out for at least 30 minutes a day! My mom did RAI about 3 months ago because she ended up having full blown Grave's Disease shortly after being diagnosed with a slightly hyperactive thyroid. I get serious fast and strong heart palps, I'll be clammy/cold/sweaty constantly, I get winded from bending down to pick up a toy, I get the shakes pretty badly during the heart palp episodes, and my hair is falling out like it did a few months PP. It's been going on for about a month only once in a while, but recently I've been experiencing all this at least every other day.

I know thyroid issues can give you trouble with your milk supply but my only issue was oversupply for the first couple months.

ETA: after reading a coulple of the links on the OP I'm thinking I may be Hypo. *sigh* I guess I have to suck it up and go to the doctor.

You don't have to have all the symptoms. I was in a very hypo state for awhile but I stayed thin my weight stays pretty consistent. I also had hyper and hypo symptoms together so it's very possible.I think in your first sentence you meant hyper right? I too had oversupply for the first 3-4 months of BF. Make sure you get a full thyroid panel done along wit antibodies.(tpo and tgb) because in case you don't know most doctors will only check TSH. I highly recommend Why do I still have Thyroid symptoms by Datis Kharrazian


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
I understand that and thank you for the help







but I went to the site you gave and found different numbers than you did so that's why I posted the link with confusion. We did test Free T3 and free T4 but I guess you were thinking total maybe that's why it confused me is all?

No, I wasn't thinking total. In the link that I gave, the NACB is said to be making the statement that FT3 should be in the range of 3.5-7.7. If you follow the link in that statement in the link I gave you, you will also come to this page which states that the TSH should be 2.5 or less because >95% of patients who have healthy thyroids (euthyroid) have a TSH which is (between 0.5 and 2.5).
Hope that clarifies.


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
No, I wasn't thinking total. In the link that I gave, the NACB is said to be making the statement that FT3 should be in the range of 3.5-7.7. If you follow the link in that statement in the link I gave you, you will also come to this page which states that the TSH should be 2.5 or less because >95% of patients who have healthy thyroids (euthyroid) have a TSH which is (between 0.5 and 2.5).
Hope that clarifies.

Ok thank you will check that link as well.


----------



## cheryllynn (Feb 20, 2010)

Can someone explain how thyroid problems would affect milk supply?

I have normal tsh/t3/t4, but ATA's and nodules.

DD is now 10 months old.

I had no supply issues until she was five months old. However, I had gained 15 lbs in months 3, 4 & 5, and now a total of 25 lbs since DD was 1 month old.

Milk supply started dropping in month 5, my pumping session amount decreased in half from 7 to 3.5. Then in Month 7 it decreased in half again to 1.5 - 2 ounces 2 x during work day.
Now I pump only once at work and get about 2 ounces. I try the 2nd pumping session and get only drops.

My endocrinologist wants me on T4 but I refused because it passes through to breast milk.

Seems sort of sad that the medication that might help is one reason I'm weaning dd.

Besides Levothryoxin (I think), any other way to help thyroid? I'm going to talk with my natural doctor to see if I can get Armour, but everything else seems normal.

I also do acupuncture regularly and take chinese herbs. My acu. says this will take months to clear up. Should I just stick with her?

Thank you.


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cheryllynn* 
My endocrinologist wants me on T4 but I refused because it passes through to breast milk.

Just wanted to address this.
Yes, it passes through breastmilk, but so does any thyroid hormone you would normally be producing.


----------



## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

I have a quick question. I just found out a few days ago that I'm expecting. I'm on L-thyroxine and the dr. has upped my dose slightly (to 50mcg) but I have a question about iodine. I do not eat Iodized salt ... I use "sea salt without iodine" ... so I'm not really sure how much iodine I'm getting. My prenatal that I was using (GNC) was giving me 100% or 150mg daily ... I just ran out and went to get more and they changed their formula and lessened some vitamins/minerals and raised others and others they added or deleted. Well, iodine is now 290mg daily ... should I be concerned? I don't know if iodine is good or bad for me. I know flouride/flourine seemed to cause me to have the same symptoms that soy does -- like my thyroid is acting up. Is it ok to take this much? They are 2 pills daily so today I only took 1 this morning ... I could take another tonight. I'm confused - - can anyone help?


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adamsmama* 
I have a quick question. I just found out a few days ago that I'm expecting. I'm on L-thyroxine and the dr. has upped my dose slightly (to 50mcg) but I have a question about iodine. I do not eat Iodized salt ... I use "sea salt without iodine" ... so I'm not really sure how much iodine I'm getting. My prenatal that I was using (GNC) was giving me 100% or 150mg daily ... I just ran out and went to get more and they changed their formula and lessened some vitamins/minerals and raised others and others they added or deleted. Well, iodine is now 290mg daily ... should I be concerned? I don't know if iodine is good or bad for me. I know flouride/flourine seemed to cause me to have the same symptoms that soy does -- like my thyroid is acting up. Is it ok to take this much? They are 2 pills daily so today I only took 1 this morning ... I could take another tonight. I'm confused - - can anyone help?

Have you ever had your antibodies tested?
Even if you HAVE antibodies there is conflicting advice on iodine, so I can't really answer your question. One side says that those with autoimmune thyroid disorders should take HUGE doses of iodine but avoid small amounts and the other side says that people with autoimmune thyroid disorders should avoid iodine at all costs.


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cheryllynn* 
Can someone explain how thyroid problems would affect milk supply?

I have normal tsh/t3/t4, but ATA's and nodules.

DD is now 10 months old.

I had no supply issues until she was five months old. However, I had gained 15 lbs in months 3, 4 & 5, and now a total of 25 lbs since DD was 1 month old.

Milk supply started dropping in month 5, my pumping session amount decreased in half from 7 to 3.5. Then in Month 7 it decreased in half again to 1.5 - 2 ounces 2 x during work day.
Now I pump only once at work and get about 2 ounces. I try the 2nd pumping session and get only drops.

My endocrinologist wants me on T4 but I refused because it passes through to breast milk.

Seems sort of sad that the medication that might help is one reason I'm weaning dd.

Besides Levothryoxin (I think), any other way to help thyroid? I'm going to talk with my natural doctor to see if I can get Armour, but everything else seems normal.

I also do acupuncture regularly and take chinese herbs. My acu. says this will take months to clear up. Should I just stick with her?

Thank you.

If your T4 and TSH is normal why did your HCP want you to take it? I had oversupply for the first 3 months then it normalized, I don't think thyroid issues affect everyone the same as far as milk supply goes so it's hard to tell you what to expect. I BF DD for 18 months just fine. I would definitely stick with the herbs and acupuncture it did great for me









Are you noticing any differences since you started the herbs/acupuncture?


----------



## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
If your T4 and TSH is normal why did your HCP want you to take it? I had oversupply for the first 3 months then it normalized, I don't think thyroid issues affect everyone the same as far as milk supply goes so it's hard to tell you what to expect. I BF DD for 18 months just fine. I would definitely stick with the herbs and acupuncture it did great for me









Are you noticing any differences since you started the herbs/acupuncture?

THR has been shown to decrease ATA bc it suppresses thyroid function- meaning there is nothing/no reason for the ATAs to attack. It's said to decrease the rate of destruction of the thyroid.


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## cheryllynn (Feb 20, 2010)

mom61508 - I think the doctor thought it would help decrease size of nodules and decrease antibodies. I was a bit concerned about taking any hormone since my hormone panel looks good.

And sadly, no improvement on breast milk. In fact it continues to decrease. I spent about $60 on herbs and teas the past two months. I now only get 2 ounces when I pump at noon and just drops or nothing in the afternoon. I now can go all night long and never leak or get engorged. Last night I nursed at 6 pm and then pumped at 7 a.m. and got 3.5 ounces. It's all probably good at this point since my dental work is Thursday. Our last nursing session will be most likely tomorrow night. I have real mixed emotions about it.

Adamsmama - I am one of those with antithryoid antibodies and I take large amounts of iodine, 12.5 mg / day. My experience is that I had thyroid nodules in summer of 2008 and took 25 mg/day for just six weeks and thyroid nodule was significantly smaller. I stopped taking the 25 mg/day when I was pregnant. I recently read that iodine requirements are higher for a pregnant mom. I haven't read why those with ATA's are supposed to avoid iodine, but in my personal experience it appeared to help greatly.

Jacqueline - my concern is that I am producing normal quantities of thyroid hormone, but my doctor wants to add extra T4. That seems out of balance, especially for my baby.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cheryllynn* 
Jacqueline - my concern is that I am producing normal quantities of thyroid hormone, but my doctor wants to add extra T4. That seems out of balance, especially for my baby.

Yes, I understand that. However, THR would suppress thyroid function so your thyroid would stop producing thyroxine and use the thyroid hormone provided orally instead. There would be a temporary increase in circulating t4/t3 but that *should* (gradually) go back to normal levels after a week or two, as your body adjusts the amount of t4 it produces.
Not trying to "convince" you to do it, by any means! You have to do what you're comfortable with.







And if I were doing amalgam removal/replacement, you can bet your bottom dollar that I'd be weaning! I'm hoping the process is smooth and relatively painless.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Goitrogenic foods: If you are hypo, do you eat them or avoid them completely? Does cooking render the goitrogenic chemicals inactive? Do you take iodine with them?

I was so stoked to start green smoothies when I realized that almost ALL of the great greens (spinach, broc, cabbage, etc. etc. ) are goitrogenic.







I'd love to hear some insight...


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## kdegroo (Dec 11, 2006)

i do green smoothies with chard or spinach but avoid the cabbage family raw and limit them cooked...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

going to jump in even though I haven't kept up with this thread this week! too busy reading about thyroid stuff!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
eta: also the most recent studies are suggesting a cut off TSH of 2.5 so that's also borderline...

Yes, American Academy of Clinical Endocrinologists recs 2.5. Whatever UK body is equivalent recs 2.0.

You can have a genetic inability to convert T4 to T3 as well. And a Reverse T3 problem which appears to be genetic influenced as well. The more I read, I do think nutrition plays a role, but only to a point. The genes may have already been damaged.

I haven't finished the book "Thyroid Problems in Women and Children" yet but a child's metabolic rate needs to be higher to spur on growth and bone development. My next task is to find out if that is supposed to correlate to higher T4/T3 ranges and also body temps?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
Goitrogenic foods: If you are hypo, do you eat them or avoid them completely? Does cooking render the goitrogenic chemicals inactive? Do you take iodine with them?

I was so stoked to start green smoothies when I realized that almost ALL of the great greens (spinach, broc, cabbage, etc. etc. ) are goitrogenic.







I'd love to hear some insight...

Yes, cooking reduces the goitrogenic compounds by 90% but only if you cook for 30 min
http://www.westonaprice.org/Bearers-...n-Science.html

Goitrogen list
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/goitrogens/

There are also goitrogens in SSRI's and bcp's. Estrogen is a goitrogen and that is why more women than men have thyroid issues (plus we need a lot more iodine for our breast tissue).


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

In reading the WAPF article posted (thanks JaneS) if you are hypo and love your greens (broc, cabbage, spinach), it seems to imply you can offset the goitrogenic damage by consuming an adequate amount of iodine in your diet.

Am I reading that wrong possibly? I love my greens (especially the ones above) cooked and raw, so I am hestiant to remove them from my diet even though I have hashi so I flux borderline hypo a bit.

So if we need iodine - what are good sources of I?

Kate


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
going to jump in even though I haven't kept up with this thread this week! too busy reading about thyroid stuff!









Yes, American Academy of Clinical Endocrinologists recs 2.5. Whatever UK body is equivalent recs 2.0.

You can have a genetic inability to convert T4 to T3 as well. And a Reverse T3 problem which appears to be genetic influenced as well. The more I read, I do think nutrition plays a role, but only to a point. The genes may have already been damaged.

I haven't finished the book "Thyroid Problems in Women and Children" yet but a child's metabolic rate needs to be higher to spur on growth and bone development. My next task is to find out if that is supposed to correlate to higher T4/T3 ranges and also body temps?

Thyroid problems in women and children....where did you find this book? Is it worth the read?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_ktg_* 
So if we need iodine - what are good sources of it?

Kate

Fish head soup.








(Seriously though, it's a traditional medicinal for goiter from my tribe.)


----------



## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Fish head soup.








(Seriously though, it's a traditional medicinal for goiter from my tribe.)

oh boy... I _can_ already hear the "groan" from DH with this answer 

off to google a recipe


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Someone asked earlier about *fluoride*... I finally found what I was looking for:

Quote:

from a review of _Thyroid Power_ by Richard L. Shames and Karilee H. Shames

An unexpectedly pleasant surprise was the authors' uncompromising criticism of water fluoridation. It takes a bold medical author (and publisher, for that matter), to so solidly slam fluoride, which though "currently touted as harmless enough to be put into the water supply, has been used in the past as a powerful medication to slow down overactive thyroid activity." A citation to the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology backs up this most interesting statement. The authors clearly state that water fluoridation is a significant cause of low thyroid illness in millions of people. They also mention the curious origins of water fluoridation, first employed in Nazi concentration camps to allegedly "force inmates into submission." (p 173) The authors' unequivocal conclusion: "Do not allow your children to be treated with fluoride." (p 175)
http://www.doctoryourself.com/thyroid.html
Interesting book, I'm waiting for it to be delivered to my library along with the other gazillion I'm reading now!

I had to purchase the Dr. Datis K (however you spell his name) book b/c it wasn't in my library network, I hope the many recs for it weren't wrong!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Fish head soup.








(Seriously though, it's a traditional medicinal for goiter from my tribe.)

Or you could just eat the eyeballs!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Thyroid problems in women and children....where did you find this book? Is it worth the read?


Library network. I literally ordered everything in the thyroid section!









I'm only halfway though. It's good for the description of infant sx of hypo or hyperthyroid and how they use the hormone. Not good b/c it's so mainstream and clearly misses a lot for that reason. I got really pissed when she dissed "women over 40 who think they need to lose weight and therefore think have a thyroid problem". There are thousands if not millions of people who suffer from this sort of blindness to real symptoms.

Haven't read the children and adolescent section yet, but will report back when I do. I'll fill you in if anything great comes up. I'm really concerned about my DS who is exhibiting low temps and other hypo sx but whose traditional TSH/T4/T3 numbers are in range. Just like me. I'll be having his antibodies and Free numbers tested at his next appt.

But reading this book made me so very grateful how normal he is cognitively! Apparently I had just enough for his development in that respect. Makes all the allergy stuff that much easier to bear.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_ktg_* 
In reading the WAPF article posted (thanks JaneS) if you are hypo and love your greens (broc, cabbage, spinach), it seems to imply you can offset the goitrogenic damage by consuming an adequate amount of iodine in your diet.

Am I reading that wrong possibly? I love my greens (especially the ones above) cooked and raw, so I am hestiant to remove them from my diet even though I have hashi so I flux borderline hypo a bit.

So if we need iodine - what are good sources of I?

Kate


Yes, the iodine researchers say this. See "THE Iodine Thread" in this forum describing work of Dr. Guy Abraham and Dr. David Brownstein. More iodine can cause a thyroid storm in some Hashi's patients. However, one of my good friends (and our holistic RD) has Hashi's and has really improved in high iodine and other supplements including C, Bs, Mag, Se, Zinc.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

...so...cook or minimize goitrogenic food OR fight back with adding iodine/iodide to the diet?

----------------------------------------

My quick story: I was dxd with Graves about 7 years ago while TTCing unsuccessfully. Evil endo wanted to blast my thyroid with radiation (he was evil...literally laughed at and belittled alternative healing). I said no and ran to my naturopath who gave me a slew of alt herbs and meds. I got a BFP *THAT MONTH*.

However...for some reason, I flip flopped and became hypo (no idea why) and I"m now on Synthroid.

I called my doc today and asked for some labs and a referral to a NEW endo. I need to know what's going on, if I need to change meds (I don't like Synthroid and don't think it's working; overwhelming fatigue, dry hair and skin, sluggish, need to sleep a lot...not good with 2 young kids







)

I have to think about what to talk to my new endo about. I want to change meds. I want them to be absollutely sure about what is going on beyond just the TSH/T4 labs.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Yes, the iodine researchers say this. See "THE Iodine Thread" in this forum describing work of Dr. Guy Abraham and Dr. David Brownstein. More iodine can cause a thyroid storm in some Hashi's patients. However, one of my good friends (and our holistic RD) has Hashi's and has really improved in high iodine and other supplements including C, Bs, Mag, Se, Zinc.

Off to read more! Thanks Jane!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Just to be clear on my last message, the concise version on treating Hashi's with iodine is that Dr. Brownstein believes low iodine (and high exposure to halides in our environment such as chlorine, fluoride, soy, perchlorate, bromine etc. which are goitrogens and oppose iodine) is the cause of AIT. He treats with high iodine and ATP Cofactors which is high amounts of vitamins B2/B3.

Cascadian,

I think with Hashimoto's thyroiditis you can flip flop between Hypo and Hyper?

I would have a full complement of antibody testing for both done:

Hashimoto's
TPO Ab
Tg Ab (aka ATA or anti thyroid antibodies)

Graves
TSI Ab
TGI Ab


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

You have both Hashimoto's and Graves:
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/hypothyr...poandhyper.htm


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Thank you Jane..it makes sense. Ahhhh...

I want to get a copy of my labs - they're so selfish with those...


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Okay, so I do have Hashimoto's. Thyroid is still normal.

What should I read,what should I do? What do I need to know at this stage where it's silent?

V


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
Okay, so I do have Hashimoto's. Thyroid is still normal.

What should I read,what should I do? What do I need to know at this stage where it's silent?

V

I'm sorry for the dx, but happy you found it early.
If you're not already taking selenium, I would start there. If you haven't read ithyroid.com and Stop The Thyroid Madness' website, I would start there. There's also an about thyroid website by Mary Shomon.
I would analyze my eating habits to assess whether my vitamin E intake is adequate as well as my iodine intake and I would consult with an iodine literate health care provider.
I'd also consider going gluten free (which I still haven't done again.







).
I *think* that's what I would do, to start with. Seeing as I didn't catch it early, I can't say for *certain* that it IS what I'd do.
Well, I think the first thing I'd do is curse a little bit. Or maybe a lot.
And









eta: oh yes and um. I'd start singing. And, if you find yourself biting your tongue a lot and not speaking your truth, I'd try that too.







(Thyroid problems are supposed to be associated with a blocked throat chakra.)


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Library network. I literally ordered everything in the thyroid section!









I'm only halfway though. It's good for the description of infant sx of hypo or hyperthyroid and how they use the hormone. Not good b/c it's so mainstream and clearly misses a lot for that reason. I got really pissed when she dissed "women over 40 who think they need to lose weight and therefore think have a thyroid problem". There are thousands if not millions of people who suffer from this sort of blindness to real symptoms.

Haven't read the children and adolescent section yet, but will report back when I do. I'll fill you in if anything great comes up. I'm really concerned about my DS who is exhibiting low temps and other hypo sx but whose traditional TSH/T4/T3 numbers are in range. Just like me. I'll be having his antibodies and Free numbers tested at his next appt.

But reading this book made me so very grateful how normal he is cognitively! Apparently I had just enough for his development in that respect. Makes all the allergy stuff that much easier to bear.

Oh yes please share when you reach the child section







can you elaborate on the cognitively part? I worry about DD her Tsh was at a 3 once but 2.8 the next. Since I want to make sure she's ok cognitively.


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Yes, the iodine researchers say this. See "THE Iodine Thread" in this forum describing work of Dr. Guy Abraham and Dr. David Brownstein. More iodine can cause a thyroid storm in some Hashi's patients. However, one of my good friends (and our holistic RD) has Hashi's and has really improved in high iodine and other supplements including C, Bs, Mag, Se, Zinc.

Ohhhh how I would love to see/talk to your RD!


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
Okay, so I do have Hashimoto's. Thyroid is still normal.

What should I read,what should I do? What do I need to know at this stage where it's silent?

V

Of course great advice from JR









I really like this book www.thyroidbook.com He has a really interesting take on hashis.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Thanks ladies.

I am feeling kind of overwhelmed. I have SO much going on medically and I'm still not getting good care yet.

The only thing I've been able to do is confirm the Hashimotos.

V


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Hey do you or don't you avoid goitrogens? Does it really matter?

They are all my fave veggies.









V


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## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
Hey do you or don't you avoid goitrogens? Does it really matter?

They are all my fave veggies.









V

Me too ... I love cabbage. I hadn't been eating cabbage for a while after going on my T4 meds ... ate a plate of cabbage one night (with dinner) and felt soooo sleepy, like drugged out sleepy afterward. I felt "off" for weeks. My dr. did say that it would suppress my thyroid. I also have to avoid large doses of soy (like soy milk or flour or tofu, etc.) at all costs ... it messes me up severely. I'm pg now and am way too afraid to eat any of the gotrogens, especially in the 1st tri.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

I avoid them. I "allow" myself to eat them once, or at most twice, a month. Or try to.







They're my favourite veggies too. I went on a brussels sprout bender a few weeks ago.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Jacqueline: Do you notice a difference when you eat them?

The thing about goitergens (sp?) like cabbage is they keep well and are versatile. So I can actually go grocery shopping once every 2 weeks. Big time and money saver.

Also, my menu 'groove' was really built on cabbage, broccoli etc... Now I need to revamp the groove and I'm not happy about it. Petulant is more the word. Yes, I'm being immature about cabbage.









I also read it's not such a big deal if you are getting enough iodine? Which I will be supplementing some because I eat whole foods and no salt, so I don't get any in my diet. (No seafood).

V


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
Jacqueline: Do you notice a difference when you eat them?

The thing about goitergens (sp?) like cabbage is they keep well and are versatile. So I can actually go grocery shopping once every 2 weeks. Big time and money saver.

Also, my menu 'groove' was really built on cabbage, broccoli etc... Now I need to revamp the groove and I'm not happy about it. Petulant is more the word. Yes, I'm being immature about cabbage.









I also read it's not such a big deal if you are getting enough iodine? Which I will be supplementing some because I eat whole foods and no salt, so I don't get any in my diet. (No seafood).

V

It's not honestly something to which I've paid attention.







But thinking back, there may be a correlation to being more sleepy in the days following eating them.

eta: And I really do understand. I hate shopping every week. I used to shop monthly. I need to get back to doing that.


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I avoid them. I "allow" myself to eat them once, or at most twice, a month. Or try to.







They're my favourite veggies too. I went on a brussels sprout bender a few weeks ago.









Haha I had a brussel sprout binge too!

Violet I 'm really bad about avoiding them too. However I make an effort to avoid soy. I eat kimchi daily which has cabbage







But I don't notice a difference. The thing that I sometimes notice messing with my thyroid is coffee


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Haha I had a brussel sprout binge too!

Violet I 'm really bad about avoiding them too. However I make an effort to avoid soy. I eat kimchi daily which has cabbage







But I don't notice a difference. The thing that I sometimes notice messing with my thyroid is coffee

more likely adrenal than thyroid


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
more likely adrenal than thyroid

Ya I'm know it affects my adrenals but when I don't drink coffee for awhile then I have some I can feel my thyroid pulsating.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

What veggies do you eat if you avoid the goitrogens? The ones listed are basically all that I eat


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## cheryllynn (Feb 20, 2010)

let's see if my veggies are all approved on the thyroid thread:

squash
sweet potato
zucchini
red bell pepper
peas
corn
green beans
greens like dandelion greens, beet greens
carrots
radish (red and black)
mushrooms

I would like to know what to do with bok choy


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

I can't eat 1/2 the 'good' veggies due to the PCOS.









Question, how is your quality of life with Hashimoto's or other thyroid issues? Do you feel pretty good on medication??

V


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

I'm on Synthroid, and I hate to say it but I feel terrible. I was hyperT for a long time, then flip flopped to hypoT and it sucks. Synthroid is useless for me. Actually, not useless - my TSH is within proper parameters, but I am absolutely tired, fatigued, dry skin and hair, wanting to sleep, don't have a lot of 'get up and go'.

I have an apt tomorrow with my doc and I want a new endo, and new meds. I think I should be on a T3/T4 combo and I want them to look at other stuff (adrenal issues, etc.)


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## azgirl (Nov 27, 2006)

After 3 years of suspecting a thyroid problem (EVERY symptom including extreme hair loss) and getting blown off because there was always a good explanation and my TSH and T4 is normal, I finally did EVERYTHING to feel better (no grains for 2 months, 9 hours of sleep per night, zen attitude, the planets aligning for a blissful, low stress time period) and I am still exhausted and my hair fell out again. So... I ordered my own blood tests through HealthCheckUSA. Here are the results:
Range
TSH. 2.3 .450-4.5
Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum010389 1.7***2.0-4.4*pg/mL
T4,Free(Direct)019745. 1.14***0.82-1.77*ng/dL

So my T3 is low, it's never been tested before. All my other results are in the normal range (I got a LOT of stuff tested)

I made an appointment with my NMD. You guys seem to know more than doctors...any thoughts? Is low T3 alone hypothyroid? Does it explain my symptoms?*
*


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

I say yes. Low t3 is hypoT. often it's the first thing to show up as low

eta: you might add a selenium supp or eat 2 brazil nuts daily to see if it helps.


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## goodygumdrops (Jan 25, 2007)

I tried to post this but didn't get much feedback so I was hoping by posting here I might get some feed back about what to do.

I just had a bunch of lab work done and I just want to run my labs on this board because I know some of you are so informative.

Fasting 3/29
TSH 3.14 .450-4.5
t4, Free .95 .82-1.77
Thyroglobulin 5.8 .5 - 55.
Antithyroglobulin <20 0-40
TPO 27 0-34

Hemoglobin 11.4L 11.5 - 15.0
MCH 26.8L 27. -34.
MCHC 31.9L 32-36

4/7
MCHC 31.9L 32. - 36.
Iron, Serum 24L 35 - 155
Iron Saturation 7L 15 - 55
Vitamin B12 1123H 211 - 946
Folate >20 >3
Ferritin, Serum 8L 12 -150

Thanks,
Amy


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Goodygumdrops,
You must be feeling really run down.







From what I'm seeing and what little I know, it looks like your primary concern right now would be getting your ferritin/iron levels up. I would, of course, re-run the thyroid tests once you've done that but I suspect that those numbers may right themselves once your iron is restored.
RE: your thyroid levels- your TSH is high and your T4 is a little low. Present recommendations for TSH are between 2.5 and 3 or below 2 if you're actually being treated. Bear in mind that IRON is required (along with selenium, iodine and um. something else I can't recall atm) in order to produce T4.
HTH.


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
I can't eat 1/2 the 'good' veggies due to the PCOS.









Question, how is your quality of life with Hashimoto's or other thyroid issues? Do you feel pretty good on medication??

V

I'm on zero meds. I was on armour then naturethroid for about 6 months. Felt better but not fabulous. I went into hyper this past summer and haven't been on any hormone since and I hope I don't have to get back on any hormone. I take herbals,homeopathics,supplements and try to eat healthy(for the most part) have yet to cut out gluten 100% but I'm getting there. I feel good now tho. I really want to focus on balancing my immune system now since Hashis really is an immune disorder.


----------



## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
I'm on Synthroid, and I hate to say it but I feel terrible. I was hyperT for a long time, then flip flopped to hypoT and it sucks. Synthroid is useless for me. Actually, not useless - my TSH is within proper parameters, but I am absolutely tired, fatigued, dry skin and hair, wanting to sleep, don't have a lot of 'get up and go'.

I have an apt tomorrow with my doc and I want a new endo, and new meds. I think I should be on a T3/T4 combo and I want them to look at other stuff (adrenal issues, etc.)

Are you addressing your adrenals now?


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Are you addressing your adrenals now?

Here`s my update: Saw my doc an hour ago, and it went sideways, then downhill, then surprisingly uphill.

When I asked her what I *had* (Graves? Hashi? Both?) she said (with a medical student in the room) "Oh it doesn't matter what the name is, you were hypo, now you're EUthyroid. Get it? You're no longer hypo." Grrrr









THEN she proceeded to listen to my sxs about fatigue and said, "Oh, I bet if I had 10 mothers in the next room, they'd all say they felt the same. It's the busiest time of your life blah blah blah " GRRRR x 2









BUT she then gave me a lab req for blood sugar, kidneys, TSH and (these are her scrawls): BLN, CRest or CVest, LDH, AST, ggt. <-- those could all be wrong - I can't read her writing.

The *saving grace* was when I asked about other meds, she said "I think you're fine on Synthroid, however after the lab results are in I will send you to the one endo I know who believes in switching around medications, although the other endos in his field don't believe in it." It was a doctor at the university who I read online listens to sxs NOT labs, and does the T3/dessicated route.

So...I'll fast for the lab tomorrow, and it's hurry up and wait.

As for my adrenals, that's what the green smoothies were supposed to be for before I discovered all the goitrogens







I'm now medicating with caffeine. I should read the thread. It's all so overwhelming when there's 50 pages of info. I don't know where to start


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
Here`s my update: Saw my doc an hour ago, and it went sideways, then downhill, then surprisingly uphill.

When I asked her what I *had* (Graves? Hashi? Both?) she said (with a medical student in the room) "Oh it doesn't matter what the name is, you were hypo, now you're EUthyroid. Get it? You're no longer hypo." Grrrr









THEN she proceeded to listen to my sxs about fatigue and said, "Oh, I bet if I had 10 mothers in the next room, they'd all say they felt the same. It's the busiest time of your life blah blah blah " GRRRR x 2









BUT she then gave me a lab req for blood sugar, kidneys, TSH and (these are her scrawls): BLN, CRest or CVest, LDH, AST, ggt. <-- those could all be wrong - I can't read her writing.

The *saving grace* was when I asked about other meds, she said "I think you're fine on Synthroid, however after the lab results are in I will send you to the one endo I know who believes in switching around medications, although the other endos in his field don't believe in it." It was a doctor at the university who I read online listens to sxs NOT labs, and does the T3/dessicated route.

So...I'll fast for the lab tomorrow, and it's hurry up and wait.

As for my adrenals, that's what the green smoothies were supposed to be for before I discovered all the goitrogens







I'm now medicating with caffeine. I should read the thread. It's all so overwhelming when there's 50 pages of info. I don't know where to start









This is exactly why I see a ND and herbalist because I would blow my fuse with a doctor like this and MOST of them are jsut like this! I feel your frustration.

Doing a saliva test is the best way to check your adrenal status... and I don't know what most of the labs are that she ordered for you. OOOOO caffeine is so hard on the adrenals...I've cut waaayyy back but I know it's so hard not to drink it when your like a zombie, I give in to the occasional latte







Perhaps start supping a good b-complex and C for your adrenals??


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Of course great advice from JR









I really like this book www.thyroidbook.com He has a really interesting take on hashis.


I wouldn't use the word "like" myself!!









I'm reading it now and it's very overwhelming. And frustrating that it seems like the only way to "cure" Hashi's is his complicated protocol that only his trained doctors can follow. Which would be impossible and highly inappropriate for children. And cost thousands in chiro visits and supplements. It's out of reach for most people. I'm re-reading it to try to absorb more. The thing is that he really scared me b/c he says thyroid hormones only make Hashi's worse... and 90% of hypothyroid patients have Hashi's!

(to the previous poster who goes between hypo and hyper, get tested for Hashi's that is a classic presentation of AIT)

He is absolutely right about the connection with adrenals and vitamin D. And a high carb, high sugar diet making all this worse ... and also the gluten connection.

Was talking to our RD again this week for DS's visit (his basal body temps are super low, in 96's. Will have bloodwork done on him this week, ugh, contributing to my overwhelmed feeling) ... soooo where was I going with this ... apparently we have gluten receptors as she terms it on our thyroid and in our joints. Not only AIT but also juvenile and rheumatoid arthritis are connected to gluten intolerance, so interesting.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Present recommendations for TSH are between 2.5 and 3 or below 2 if you're actually being treated.

Dr. Kharrizian's book did make it clearer to me that my TSH's of 1.2 to 1.7 are actually signs of a problem, not how great my thyroid is, like every doctor has been telling me for the past 15 years. I always thought the lower the better. But that can mean too high T4, and not good conversion to active T3.

I'm getting tested this week too, like the real tests this time.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

I just picked up Mary Shomon's first book...will post what I find interesting.

It is overwhelming isn't it









In fact,







to all of us.


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## goodygumdrops (Jan 25, 2007)

Thanks for the advice. I haven't gotten my period yet this month, which is really weird. First time that's happen since I was pregnant or nursing. I'm going to take my iron and go to bed.

Thank again.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Oh yes please share when you reach the child section







can you elaborate on the cognitively part? I worry about DD her Tsh was at a 3 once but 2.8 the next. Since I want to make sure she's ok cognitively.

You'd know. It was basically describing cretinism as a result of non existant iodine and low thyroid. Babies as acting catatonic as a result of congenital misplaced thyroids.

I'm encouraging you to go totally gluten free, I know it's hard!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Bear in mind that IRON is required (along with selenium, iodine and um. something else I can't recall atm) in order to produce T4.

Vitamin A? (as true retinol not beta carotene)

Amy,
This page on ferritin is a good explanation:
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ferritin


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I wouldn't use the word "like" myself!!









I'm reading it now and it's very overwhelming. And frustrating that it seems like the only way to "cure" Hashi's is his complicated protocol that only his trained doctors can follow. Which would be impossible and highly inappropriate for children. And cost thousands in chiro visits and supplements. It's out of reach for most people. I'm re-reading it to try to absorb more. The thing is that he really scared me b/c he says thyroid hormones only make Hashi's worse... and 90% of hypothyroid patients have Hashi's!

(to the previous poster who goes between hypo and hyper, get tested for Hashi's that is a classic presentation of AIT)

He is absolutely right about the connection with adrenals and vitamin D. And a high carb, high sugar diet making all this worse ... and also the gluten connection.

Was talking to our RD again this week for DS's visit (his basal body temps are super low, in 96's. Will have bloodwork done on him this week, ugh, contributing to my overwhelmed feeling) ... soooo where was I going with this ... apparently we have gluten receptors as she terms it on our thyroid and in our joints. Not only AIT but also juvenile and rheumatoid arthritis are connected to gluten intolerance, so interesting.

His book actually gave me hope that hashis can become dormant or controlled I guess







So I must say I do like his book and I would recommend to anyone with Hashis. I don't recall reading anything about a chiro though??

His protocol is complicated I do agree with you on that. His book is definitely for adult patients but I wonder what his take would be on children with thyroid issues. I too need to read it again so I can absorb more I've already forgotten a lot of the book...not the best memory here.







Good luck Jane with blood work I hate getting DD's done!


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

I'm still looking into foods to avoid with hypo. This is about maca which is a popular smoothie ingredient to support adrenals (for energy, libido, etc.):

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles...ller-herbs.htm


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
... apparently we have gluten receptors as she terms it on our thyroid and in our joints. Not only AIT but also juvenile and rheumatoid arthritis are connected to gluten intolerance, so interesting.

GreenMedInfo posted this link about joint issues and wheat today. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...7be7a43dd27d13

Pat


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Another question...

What do you think an endo should do for me at this point? I'm technically normal with some nodules that need watching and eventual biopsy.

Should I even bother to keep finding an endo. I feel so worn out right now and defeated. They all seem to be UA violations. Apparently endocrinology as a medical field is largely useless.

Should I just wait? Just do the scans and bloodwork with my regular doc and then try again to find an endo when I need one?

V


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
I'm still looking into foods to avoid with hypo. This is about maca which is a popular smoothie ingredient to support adrenals (for energy, libido, etc.):

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles...ller-herbs.htm

I recall reading that maca isn't good with adrenal (or thyroid?) issues...

Pat


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Pat- from what I read, people use it often for 'energy, etc. etc.' and it works with the endocrine system.

"Maca is a nutritional powerhouse especially rich in iodine. It is a reliable protein source containing significant amounts of amino acids. The protein and calories in Maca are stable even after years of storage. It is also rich in complex carbohydrates and essential minerals such as calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, and zinc. and iron. It contains vitamins B-1, B-2, B-12, C, and E and is a source of glycosid steroids.

Maca is an "adaptogen", meaning it helps to restore balance or homeostasis to the body. Rather than addressing a specific symptom, adaptogens are used to improve the overall adaptability of the whole system. Unlike caffeine, Maca is a healthy choice for increasing energy because it is not a stimulant. The steady enhancement of both physical and mental energy makes Maca an ideal supplement for students, professionals, writers, athletes, and anybody else who needs a lift. "

Maca and adrenals:

`Maca has been recognized for centuries in Peru for its many health benefits, including its ability to increase stamina, energy and endurance, and improve the ability to withstand stress. This adaptogenic herb helps normalize the body's response to stress, modulate cortisol levels, reduce the exhaustion that follows a stressful event, and protect the body against the negative effects of stress.``

The link that I initially posted states that raw maca is goitrogenic and flipped some consumers from hypo to hyper, BUT gelatinized maca is cooked, destroying the goitrogens akin to cooking spinach, broc, etc. and is ok to consume with thyroid issues, to the added benefits.

Google maca and adrenal fatigue - lots out there. I`m desperately looking for a way to cut tea out of my diet. i just had a cup of tea to get thru the afternoon


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
Google maca and adrenal fatigue - lots out there. I`m desperately looking for a way to cut tea out of my diet. i just had a cup of tea to get thru the afternoon










You might try herbal infusions or rooiboos tea.


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
Another question...

What do you think an endo should do for me at this point? I'm technically normal with some nodules that need watching and eventual biopsy.

Should I even bother to keep finding an endo. I feel so worn out right now and defeated. They all seem to be UA violations. Apparently endocrinology as a medical field is largely useless.

Should I just wait? Just do the scans and bloodwork with my regular doc and then try again to find an endo when I need one?

V

Have you considered seeing a naturopath?


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
Pat- from what I read, people use it often for 'energy, etc. etc.' and it works with the endocrine system.

"Maca is a nutritional powerhouse especially rich in iodine. It is a reliable protein source containing significant amounts of amino acids. The protein and calories in Maca are stable even after years of storage. It is also rich in complex carbohydrates and essential minerals such as calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, and zinc. and iron. It contains vitamins B-1, B-2, B-12, C, and E and is a source of glycosid steroids.

Maca is an "adaptogen", meaning it helps to restore balance or homeostasis to the body. Rather than addressing a specific symptom, adaptogens are used to improve the overall adaptability of the whole system. Unlike caffeine, Maca is a healthy choice for increasing energy because it is not a stimulant. The steady enhancement of both physical and mental energy makes Maca an ideal supplement for students, professionals, writers, athletes, and anybody else who needs a lift. "

Maca and adrenals:

`Maca has been recognized for centuries in Peru for its many health benefits, including its ability to increase stamina, energy and endurance, and improve the ability to withstand stress. This adaptogenic herb helps normalize the body's response to stress, modulate cortisol levels, reduce the exhaustion that follows a stressful event, and protect the body against the negative effects of stress.``

The link that I initially posted states that raw maca is goitrogenic and flipped some consumers from hypo to hyper, BUT gelatinized maca is cooked, destroying the goitrogens akin to cooking spinach, broc, etc. and is ok to consume with thyroid issues, to the added benefits.

Google maca and adrenal fatigue - lots out there. I`m desperately looking for a way to cut tea out of my diet. i just had a cup of tea to get thru the afternoon









I personally don't know much about maca but what about trying things like Holy basil or ashgawanda for adrenals?


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

I totally would try ashwaganda and Holy Basil - I know nothing about them so off to google.

This whole realm of adrenal fatigue is new to me, and I was pretty ignorant about my labs and the disease itself.







I came across maca when reading into green smoothies - maybe I should just try something else...


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Have you considered seeing a naturopath?

My state doesn't recognize naturopaths--we have one I think in the area but they can't prescribe anything.

I did find some MDs in my area who will give synthroid even if Hashi's isn't symptomatic (sp?) (they make me a bit nervous though, very fringe physicians) and my aunt who was just diagnosed as Hashi's says her doc gives her synthroid even though she is subclinical so I may have some hope. My aunt is 2 hours away though.

As for the adrenals, I think I'm doing all the natural stuff right for adrenals. It's hard on my body right now as I'm going thru steroid withdrawal and the adrenals no likey.

V


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
My state doesn't recognize naturopaths--we have one I think in the area but they can't prescribe anything.

I did find some MDs in my area who will give synthroid even if Hashi's isn't symptomatic (sp?) (they make me a bit nervous though, very fringe physicians) and my aunt who was just diagnosed as Hashi's says her doc gives her synthroid even though she is subclinical so I may have some hope. My aunt is 2 hours away though.

As for the adrenals, I think I'm doing all the natural stuff right for adrenals. It's hard on my body right now as I'm going thru steroid withdrawal and the adrenals no likey.

V

Bummer....they can't even get blood work done? I would think even a TCM could be of some help. They're typically less costly. Some herbalist are pretty knowledgeable about the thyroid as well. Just throwing it out there. I know how important it is to have knowledgeable help.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Got ahold of the dr's office for test results:
TSH 5.14 (down from 7.68 last month but I also took my meds that morning, and you're not supposed to iirc)
Anti-TPO >1000(

Ok, blood drawn yesterday. TSH is now down to 3.26. Didn't get FT4 results and no others run. Got asked if I'm still having symptoms- I said yes, falling asleep whenever I sit down, dry skin, brain fog, bad memory... Forgot (!







) to mention heart palpitations and occasional shortness of breath, as well as irritation and depressive episodes. *sigh*
This is so annoying.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Ok, blood drawn yesterday. TSH is now down to 3.26. Didn't get FT4 results and no others run. Got asked if I'm still having symptoms- I said yes, falling asleep whenever I sit down, dry skin, brain fog, bad memory... Forgot (!







) to mention heart palpitations and occasional shortness of breath, as well as irritation and depressive episodes. *sigh*
This is so annoying.

That's great that your tsh went down. I will feel so encouraged if mine goes down...even if I don't feel great, I'm gradually feeling better and I would love to see that kind of improvement on paper, kwim?


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
I totally would try ashwaganda and Holy Basil - I know nothing about them so off to google.

This whole realm of adrenal fatigue is new to me, and I was pretty ignorant about my labs and the disease itself.







I came across maca when reading into green smoothies - maybe I should just try something else...

Have you read on the adrenal fatigue thread? I would take a b complex with extra B5 too. Do you take Vitamin C? That would be a great starting point for you along with ashwaganda or Holy basil


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Frozen shoulder!!! Do any of you suffer from this? I had been for years, sometimes so bad that I couldn't drive (can't shoulder check), emergency visits to chiros, massage therapists, acu's...

I didn't know it was related to the thyroid!!! I found this out the other day..oh my god...is there no end to the things this disease affects??

http://thyroid.about.com/b/2007/12/1...id-disease.htm


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Can anyone help me interpret these test results>

TSH 1.1
I'm low in GGT <10 where range is 1058
Low in LD 209 with range of 260-494

GGT: GAMMA GLUTAMYL TRANSPEPTIDASE (blood)
Gamma Glutamyl Transpeptidase (GGT) is an enzyme found in the liver. Its values rise in liver disease and excessive alcohol consumption.

LD: LACTATE DEHYDROGENASE (blood)
Lactate Dehydrogenase (LDH, LD) is an enzyme found in any cell that metabolized glucose, and so is present in most tissues. An increase in the LD commonly indicates inflammation in the liver or muscle or destruction of red cells.

Could explain my fatigue..


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

What are the thoughts of pregnancy and Hashis, anyone? DH and I are wanting to start trying in Jan perhaps but I'm very nervous about having thyroid issues and having a baby. I'm sure it's going to be difficult for me since my periods have always been super irregular. Along with my progesterone being pretty much non-existent at the moment. Herbs have always worked well for me regarding hormone regulation but I'm scared to start them again since I don't want to be pregnant too soon


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
What are the thoughts of pregnancy and Hashis, anyone? DH and I are wanting to start trying in Jan perhaps but I'm very nervous about having thyroid issues and having a baby. I'm sure it's going to be difficult for me since my periods have always been super irregular. Along with my progesterone being pretty much non-existent at the moment. Herbs have always worked well for me regarding hormone regulation but I'm scared to start them again since I don't want to be pregnant too soon

I would be sure to be strictly gluten free. I'd be concerned something major is going on with progesterone at that point and the risk of miscarriage then will be high. How are you treating the Hashi's?


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## camprunner (Oct 31, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
What are the thoughts of pregnancy and Hashis, anyone? DH and I are wanting to start trying in Jan perhaps but I'm very nervous about having thyroid issues and having a baby. I'm sure it's going to be difficult for me since my periods have always been super irregular. Along with my progesterone being pretty much non-existent at the moment. Herbs have always worked well for me regarding hormone regulation but I'm scared to start them again since I don't want to be pregnant too soon

I also have Hashimotos and am ready to start trying too. My doctor recommended vitex which takes 3 months to work and I've been drinking Red Raspberry Leaf tea. I don't think these things will hurt at all. Can you use some sort of barrier method of birth control until you are ready be pregnant?


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I would be sure to be strictly gluten free. I'd be concerned something major is going on with progesterone at that point and the risk of miscarriage then will be high. How are you treating the Hashi's?

Totally agree on the GF. JaneS What do you know about progesterone? My concern is miscarriage as well. Like I said herbs tend to regulate me fairly easy. I hadn't had a period in months went on certain herbal tincture for 1 week got a period that little of time....but I'm still concerned as to *why* it's so low. My ND wants to put me on progesterone cream but I'm not willing so she said her 2nd choice would Kan herbals formula called womans precious
http://www.kanherb.com/cons_pi_kh_product.asp?

I was doing acupuncture but since being out of my home state I have stopped. I'm taking selenium, trying to master GF, taking metagenics gut support, Vit D daily and FCLO oh just started mag glycinate along with mag oil. I also doing adrenal stuff, B complex wtih extra B5, methyl B12 and milk thistle for liver support. Need to start C And just started doing nettle infusions again So what do you think Jane







I would love to hear your 2 cents!!!









I'm wanting to get mineral test done so trying to research that.

I'm also interested in the finding out T1/T2 thing in Dr. Kharrazian book. This makes so much sense to me!
productNameId=1565

Quote:


Originally Posted by *camprunner* 
I also have Hashimotos and am ready to start trying too. My doctor recommended vitex which takes 3 months to work and I've been drinking Red Raspberry Leaf tea. I don't think these things will hurt at all. Can you use some sort of barrier method of birth control until you are ready be pregnant?

I guess my concern is the state of my insides







I just KNOW I have deficiencies so it scares me that I will not be up to par and give baby the best environment. DD is healthy but I see little things that I know stemmed from me. Although I was not eating as well as I do now and was drinking a little to much back then...we weren't trying to get pregnant it accidently happened







I had a great pregnancy with DD but at 4 mos PP my thyroid went bonkers and I could tell I was unhealhty even from my nails(I had almost like small holes/dents in my nails that started during pregnancy)so I worry what will happen after next baby. Dong quai works wonders for me I took that in combination with some other herbs. Lately I don't even want to do "it" with DH...uhhhh the hormones but once I start those herbs I'm a whole different woman


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## cheryllynn (Feb 20, 2010)

mom61508 - did you have blood tests done to determine progesterone levels? I've had many years experience with fertility treatments and that includes lots of education and testing on hormone levels before and during pregnancy. Progesterone should start to rise after ovulation, usually cycle day 14. If your progesterone was tested cd1 - 14, it should be < 1. Women who have higher progesterone or early rising progesterone prior to ovulation may have a harder time getting pregnant.

I was able to decrease anti-thyroid antibodies using Young Living's Frankincense essential oil, which I do also sell (www.youngliving.org/dropbydrop). I was tested Jan 26th and my ATA's were over 200. I was retested in March and they dropped to 11. This is the 2nd time I've reduced ATA's using Frankincense oil.

Are you on Armour or any other thyroid medication ?

I recently took a class on pregnancy and essential oils and during this class it was stated that too-low progesterone in early pregnancy is a frequent cause of miscarriage.

I also had good results using acupuncture in relation to making my cycles healthier. I would suggest finding an acupuncturist that specializes in fertility issues and can treat through a pregnancy. My acupuncturist also does the chinese medicine part and has lots of input on which chinese herbs to use for thyroid.


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cheryllynn* 
mom61508 - did you have blood tests done to determine progesterone levels? I've had many years experience with fertility treatments and that includes lots of education and testing on hormone levels before and during pregnancy. Progesterone should start to rise after ovulation, usually cycle day 14. If your progesterone was tested cd1 - 14, it should be < 1. Women who have higher progesterone or early rising progesterone prior to ovulation may have a harder time getting pregnant. The last period I got was Feb 14th, haven't had one since but it was hard when I got the blood work done because my cycles are so irregular so I really have no clue what my cycle is. I appreciate any advice btw especially since you've been through the hormone thing









I was able to decrease anti-thyroid antibodies using Young Living's Frankincense essential oil, which I do also sell (www.youngliving.org/dropbydrop). I was tested Jan 26th and my ATA's were over 200. I was retested in March and they dropped to 11. This is the 2nd time I've reduced ATA's using Frankincense oil.
I've never heard of using frankincense oil with this! Very interesting! My antibodies weren't to bad last time I had them checked around 30 but I'm due again for another test shortly so we will see.
Are you on Armour or any other thyroid medication ?
I'm on no thyoid meds.
I recently took a class on pregnancy and essential oils and during this class it was stated that too-low progesterone in early pregnancy is a frequent cause of miscarriage.

I also had good results using acupuncture in relation to making my cycles healthier. I would suggest finding an acupuncturist that specializes in fertility issues and can treat through a pregnancy. My acupuncturist also does the chinese medicine part and has lots of input on which chinese herbs to use for thyroid.

Yes i was doing acupuncture a few months back did about 6 sessions in Feburary so that could have been why I got a period then. For Hashis I think it's most important to figure out the immune system since it's our immune systems out of whack causing out thyroid issues...no?


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## cheryllynn (Feb 20, 2010)

Since you aren't having regular cycles, I wouldn't worry about the progesterone levels right now, but if you were tested prior to ovulation, then your level should be < 1 and is not indicative of a progesterone problem. Progesterone rises after ovulation and is fed from the corpus luteum, which is what is left of the follicle after the egg is released. This progesterone in a normal pregnancy cycle is what sustains the pregnancy until the placenta takes over, around week 12 - 14. Women do have problems with luteal phase progesterone levels, but you need to know when you ovulated and then have the blood test.

For those of us doing an IVF cycle, the follicles are disturbed by the retrieval process and the pregnancy cycle is supported with progesterone supplements, either suppositories, injections or sublingual tabs.

It does make sense to figure out the immune system and why it's taken a turn. In my studies on essential oils, there have been some oils that help reprogram DNA and this is why I chose what I did. I will be going to the annual convention in June which I know will focus on frankincense essential oil and also take a certified aromatherapy course starting in June so I am looking forward to learning more. I feel a bit weird discussing this as I am a distributor of these oils. But you can purchase them from anyone registered. I'm not discussing this topic to make money. I have found that Young Living oils are very pure, high grade and therapeutic quality and I trust them and use them as my medicines. I hope that ppl don't read my post and by a $10 bottle at the co-op and expect results. Most store front oils are perfume quality and are great for incense or baths but not high enough quality to affect physical changes in the body. Actually the cheaper oils could very well have fillers in them that are not good for you. So, enough of my disclaimer.

For change, sometimes I look at a problem from inside out and then outside in. I thought if I could get the antibodies down or eliminated using the oils, then at least for now my thyroid should be protected and possibly function better. I know now that I will add ATA testing to my annual tests to make sure they haven't sneaked back in.

I'm a bit of an odd duck, as my CRP # is low indicating no real inflammation in my body. My gluten tolerance test came back normal, so I am technically not gluten intolerant. I do have digestive issues (low stomach acid and low digestive enzymes) for which I take supplements.

I do take high doses of iodine to support my thyroid. I'm on a yahoo group that discusses iodine. I currently just increased my Ioderol from 25 mg to 37.5 mg. My thyroid nodule changes size from day to day but I am encouraged that I have days where it is significantly smaller. I also use Myrrh and Myrtle essential oils that are supportive for the thyroid. I am also on 60 mg armour.


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## cheryllynn (Feb 20, 2010)

Cascadian - I do have shoulder problems that are much better this year, although my thyroid is having more issues. My husband has this but hasn't tested his thyroid.

I can't help with your test results as I have no idea what they are. I do know that TSH 1.1 looks good but not really relevent without the free T3/T4 numbers too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
So what do you think Jane







I would love to hear your 2 cents!!!









I'm wanting to get mineral test done so trying to research that.

I'm not sure I know much about progesterone specifically. (But Cheryl is right, too low is most common cause of m/c that is why I said I was concerned.) I do know that all the hormones are related. And insulin control is a big issue when there is problems with enough sex hormones not being made.

I feel like I've forgotten about magnesium's impact on progesterone from Dr. Carolyn Dean's book but I do know it's very important for DHEA, which is also connected.

Vitamin A is essential, how's that in your diet?

And cholesterol is important too. But not what you think... cholesterol is what our hormones are made from. As you know, I'm a Weston Price member and eat a traditional high fat, high cholesterol diet. I have *no* PMS. It's truly amazing. I barely know when I'm about to get AF anymore, I used to feel like crap first and then know it was coming. Not a twinge or hint of a cramp since I started eating a TF diet. And cutting out high omega 6 fatty acid oils (canola, corn, soy, safflower, cottonseed) and supplementing CLO and eating wild seafood and pastured dairy/eggs for the omega 3s.

What are you eating for other minerals? I'd be concerned about your calcium too if your fingernails were so effected.


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I'm not sure I know much about progesterone specifically. (But Cheryl is right, too low is most common cause of m/c that is why I said I was concerned.) I do know that all the hormones are related. And insulin control is a big issue when there is problems with enough sex hormones not being made.

I feel like I've forgotten about magnesium's impact on progesterone from Dr. Carolyn Dean's book but I do know it's very important for DHEA, which is also connected.
This I did not know. I'm wondering how much mag to take. Right now I'm taking about 360 mg of mag glycinate and 200 of mag oil. Maybe I need more??
Vitamin A is essential, how's that in your diet?
I take FCLO and we eat a decent amount of grass fed butter but I can't stomach liver but I really should try the frozen pills??This is in no way supplying my body with enough A right?
And cholesterol is important too. But not what you think... cholesterol is what our hormones are made from. As you know, I'm a Weston Price member and eat a traditional high fat, high cholesterol diet. I have *no* PMS. It's truly amazing. I barely know when I'm about to get AF anymore, I used to feel like crap first and then know it was coming. Not a twinge or hint of a cramp since I started eating a TF diet. And cutting out high omega 6 fatty acid oils (canola, corn, soy, safflower, cottonseed) and supplementing CLO and eating wild seafood and pastured dairy/eggs for the omega 3s.
Jane this is motivating! I'm totally into TF but I'm sensitive to eggs, have a hard time with organ meats. I'm not consistent with my diet with DH job we are in VA right now then go back home to AZ for 4 months then FL again so this complicates our diet








What are you eating for other minerals? I'd be concerned about your calcium too if your fingernails were so effected.

Example:
Breakfst: usually bacon and gluten free toast for me. Glass raw milk
snack: cocnut milk yogurt mixed with cow milk yogurt and kefir or fruit
lunch: WE usually eat out
Dinner: drumsticks, green salad, broccoli lots of butter, cucumbers with homemade salad dressing side kimchi
I've started Netle infusions again too.

yes my nails looked weird they are better now. Only one dent left on 1 nail would this mean I need calcium or do I just need more mag to absorb my calcium?? janeS I now your super busy so I truly appreciate the advice you take the time to leave


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Dr's appt today.
Increasing meds from 120 to 150 (75 2/day).
Getting CBC done, including ferritin.


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Dr's appt today.
Increasing meds from 120 to 150 (75 2/day).
Getting CBC done, including ferritin.

Should probably know what CBC means but I don't????


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
Should probably know what CBC means but I don't????

CBC = complete blood count


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## HappyMommy2 (Jan 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom61508* 
What are the thoughts of pregnancy and Hashis, anyone? DH and I are wanting to start trying in Jan perhaps but I'm very nervous about having thyroid issues and having a baby. I'm sure it's going to be difficult for me since my periods have always been super irregular. Along with my progesterone being pretty much non-existent at the moment. Herbs have always worked well for me regarding hormone regulation but I'm scared to start them again since I don't want to be pregnant too soon


I have hashi's ... since 3mo pp with DS#1. I had a great pg and hbac with #2. I am now pg with #3.

Actually got pg while on progesterone supplementation because it was severely low. My naturopath had ordered a saliva test for me.

You will likely need to up your dosages of thyroid meds while pg.


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
CBC = complete blood count

Thx









Quote:


Originally Posted by *HappyMommy2* 
I have hashi's ... since 3mo pp with DS#1. I had a great pg and hbac with #2. I am now pg with #3.

Actually got pg while on progesterone supplementation because it was severely low. My naturopath had ordered a saliva test for me.

You will likely need to up your dosages of thyroid meds while pg.

That's great to hear. Mine is severely low too. I'm wondering if it's guaranteed I'll need thyroid meds while pregnant. I haven't been on thyroid meds in almost a year. Do you feel better while pregnant or worse, just curious. What supps did you do while pregnant?


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## treeoflife3 (Nov 14, 2008)

I am so completely overwhelmed reading this!!

I've been diagnosed hypothyroid but I think I probably have hashimoto's. My doctor refused to do a full panel test because 'the treatment would be the same' but he is also of the mind set that the old normal range still applies. Currently he has me on the lowest dose til mid July because after a month my TSH did go down (above 7 to 3.5ish) but I feel NO different so I know that either it isn't low enough (my mom feels her best with it at 1.. she has hashi's as well and I'm usually just like her health wise) or something else is off. I'm not really sure what information to bring to him to push for a full panel and what that would solve for me... should I ask for a referral to a specialist?

Also, in my info on the medicine I'm on, it says something about being careful about calcium supplements as well as soy... I knew the soy thing but how concerning is the calcium bit... until then, I was taking NOW brand prenatals along with the NOW brand calcium supplements... can I still take them no worries? or is this something I need to stop? I'm feeling pretty confused.

Along with the soy... you guys have talked about all sorts of stuff I need to avoid or add and I feel SO lost here with figuring out the right diet... did I read it right that broccoli is a problem? that is my favorite vegetable.. I have some I'm about to harvest out back actually ...









how important is it that I look into getting onto a natural medication like the one site talked about rather than being on my current synthetic (T4 only?) one?

basically... I am completely overwhelmed with all this new info and the links (ithyroid wasn't working for me though... I couldn't navigate anywhere) and I think I need someone to break it down barney style for me. I need the dummies guide or something. I KNOW I'm not better although I think my doctor is under that impression and I have no clue how to go from here to get what I need... I'm not sure what I need!


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## mom61508 (May 10, 2009)

Bump


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Anyone taking mag and Armour/natural dessicated thyroid have to decrease their mag when their thyroid medication increased?


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

*
Taking Synthroid and not happy? Still have sxs of hypothyroidism with TSH lab results 'in range'? I just might be your guinea pig!*

After pleading with my doctor for months and months, I finally got an appointment with one of the few endocrinologists where I live who does things a little differently. I had to jump through hoops, tell my doc I didn't want my old endo, and wait 3 months for the appointment I had today.







This Dr. works out of the university and is a professor and researcher in the field, so he's perhaps a little more cutting edge than the others I encountered.

I've been on Synthroid for 7 years, and feel terrible....but _my TSH lab results are within range_ My most overriding concern is fatigue, brainfog and low stamina. Basically I feel like a lump on a log.

My endo today basically said to STOP taking Synthroid immediately, and wrote a prescription for BOTH Cytomel (T3) and dessicated thyroid (called Thyroid in Canada = Armour in the US). Synthroid has a half life of about a month so it's still in my system until then.

Here's the plan:

1) Stop Synthroid immediately, take Cytomel for a month (bec Synthroid still in my body, I'll effectively be on T3 and T4)

2) After a month when all Synthroid in body is out, increase dose of Cytomel, effectively I'll only be on T3.

3) After another month, stop Cytomel and take the dessicated thyroid.

He said, and I quote, "No bloodwork. Just keep a note of how you feel and we'll meet again in 3 months."







Finally!!! A doctor who doesn't go solely by bloodwork!!! He wants it to be based on my interpretations of how I feel, so I'm going to journal it.

I'll post my last lab results FYI, as well as how I feel on all the combos.


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## gilamama (Aug 9, 2005)

popping in to aask for a brand/ source recomendation for lugols. if anyone wouldn't mind to point me in a good direction i'd really appretiate it.

thanks, gila


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

increased my dose anout 5-6 weeks ago to 75mg dessicated 2x/day.
have lost 15 lbs w/ no exercise.
looking forward to starting to work out again


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## michelleklu (Aug 3, 2008)

I've been on and off feeling overwhelmed with my thyroid issues. From tests I got done last year, my swollen thyroid, and my one sorta bulging eye the doctor said I had Grave's. I don't think they did enough tests. I researched and found I got the old thyroid panel done. I just have this feeling that it could be Hashimoto's. Can't you have the bulging eye things and swollen thyroid with Hashimoto's? They only offered me Synthroid and I was overseas and didn't have any other options really. I started taking iodine, coconut oil, royal jelly, and the one'n'only daily vitamin. Nearly all my symptoms disappeared.

I feel a lot better but I had a doctor's visit yesterday and she told me that the natural way wasn't good enough and I could just have heart failure any second. I have read about thyroid storms and I don't think its that extreme? My blood pressure was normal but my heart rate was high. She scheduled me for more blood tests, an ultrasound, and a physical. She also gave me a prescription for propanolol. Should I take it? If they find a "benign" growth with the ultrasound should I push to get it removed? Should I ask to get a biopsy now? I'm really worried about whether or not I have cancer.

Also one night my husband was moving around and couldn't really see and elbowed me in the nose. My nose bled profusely and I've been getting nose bleeds every couple of days but sometimes it won't happen for 2 weeks. Could this be related to my thyroid? Is it a sign of cancer?

I also loved this one site that I can't find anymore. Someone wrote about their husband's story and suggested coconut oil, iodine, the one'n'only vitamins. Does anyone know what website this is?

I'll take any suggestions or hugs.

ETA: Also I stayed up really late one night and was stressing out and my thyroid felt tingly/numb-ish and I just rubbed some iodine on it and it stopped. I just went to sleep right after. Does that mean anything? Maybe it was going to rain the next day? Haha...


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## michelleklu (Aug 3, 2008)

Oh I just recently remembered - at my doctor's appointment she also said she heard a wooshing noise when she put her stethoscope on my thyroid. Anyone know what that means? I'm usually terrified/upset at the doctor's and don't really pay attention at the time.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Hi

I am usually on the blood clotting disorders thread here and I know a lot about that but I am now thinking I need to find out more about thyroid issues









I feel awful and have been feeling that something isn't right for a long time now. I am weary. I sleep for about 10 hours a day and I still feel awful, I am cold, I have put on 14lbs in weight in under a year and am now almost as heavy as I have been when massively pregnant. My mood is low and I just want to lie down and cry.

I've been to my GP and cried in her office too out of desperation but after two appointments she doesn't think I am depressed or have any thyroid issues - the classic situation of all my bloods coming back 'normal' as far a she is concerned. She thinks I am stressed and just need to exercise more to lose weight and lift my mood. Dh and I run our our own business which is pretty stressful at the mo and we have 4 kids: 2 home educated and two teens. Life isn't simple but I don't think this is all just about stress.

The only thing she said that stood out was my cholesterol at 325 and my phosphate was a little low so I got retested for phosphate, calcium and also PTH.

She was away from the surgery for a week and told me she would call if there was any problem with the blood results and then refer me to endocrinology.

She didn't call so I rang and they told me my results were normal. I went to get a copy and have looked up all the normal ranges which is hard to do with a fuzzy mind. Some look ok but I think some like B12 and iron are at the low end of normal.

TSH is 4.01mu/l
PTH is 6pmol/L
Cholesterol 325.
B12 297
iron 63.3
Calcium 2.37mmol/L
and a ton more that say everything else is normal.

I want to get to the bottom of whatever is wrong but I don't know how to convince my GP to refer me to the endo (I am in the UK and it is very hard to get to a specialist without a GP referral.) I'm sure my cholesterol is thyroid-related and if how I'm feeling generally isn't thyroid related I just don't know what I can do to get back to what I feel is normal.

Can I help myself with B12 supplements, selenium and eating more primal or should I wait for a referral and have them look at me 'as I am' right now?

Also is there a reason why I shouldn't do the temperature test with a digital thermometer? I'm menstruating as of yesterday and took my temp this morning as 93.7 which is waaay low. It put it under my arm and it took 2 mins to beep.

TIA ladies.
Rachel


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Rachel,
Sounds like a textbook case of "subclinical" hypoT.

4 is actually still 0.5-1.5 above what the current recommendations are here in the US by the American Endocrinologist Association or whatever it's called (tired and sick).
Is there any way to convince her to run a full thyroid panel with free T4 and free T3 and antibodies?


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Thanks, it seems I may not be mad after all!

I'll book another appointment and ask her. I've had two lots of tests already and it was only after having the second lot that I started really reading a lot and realised I should have asked for T3 and T4 as well as the PTH she ordered.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

This is my new favorite site for evidence-based research about alternative treatments. There are over 130 studies linked from PubMed about thyroid issues!

Pat


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Just an update:

I'm on day 10 of stopping Synthroid and taking Cytomel (T4) (remember that I still have Synthroid in my system for up to a month) - I feel AMAZING! I have so much energy, just like in the past. I haven't felt like this in YEARS! I cleaned out the linen closet and laundry room...like deep, scrubbing clean...and have energy left over. OMG.

Question: My endo said that my thyroid is probably all gone by now, or I might have a bit left







He said that yes, there are some stories of them regenerating but none of the patients he knows of. Anyone know about this?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Cytomel is T3, Synthroid is T4.... T3 is more active. It's "assumed" if you get T4 and your TSH is normal, your body converts to active T3. That seems to be rare with hypo patients yet apparently it doesn't occur to most mainstream drs. There are a lot of explanation from alternative thyroid drs.

Sooo... my dr. is suggesting I start Cytomel! I will post my tests later. My TSH is fine, always has been, but the reverse T3 and free/total T3 is off. Together with lingering symptoms.

I'm off to read more about Wilson's Syndrome too but I know it doesn't have a large acceptance.

Not sure about Cytomel either. Sigh.

I'm reading Dr. Mark Starr's book Hypothyroidism Type 2. VERY interesting.
http://www.21centurymed.com/?page_id=12

I have myexadema of the upper arm which is another classic hypo sx. It's easier to see with his pics that illustrate the issue, which I cannot find online. But apparently if you pinch the skin of your upper arm, the skin is supposed to be loose, regardless of how chubby or thin you are. I pinch and I get a big thick wad of skin and tissue. This is accumulated mucin.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I have myexadema of the upper arm which is another classic hypo sx. It's easier to see with his pics that illustrate the issue, which I cannot find online. But apparently if you pinch the skin of your upper arm, the skin is supposed to be loose, regardless of how chubby or thin you are. I pinch and I get a big thick wad of skin and tissue. This is accumulated mucin.

huh.
learn something new every day.


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## nadia105 (Jul 16, 2003)

This thread is such an amazing resource!

I was dx hypo about a year ago, a couple months after I weaned my youngest. Prior to that, I had been pg, nursing or both for the past 7 years straight. Apparently my body had no idea what to do when it wasn't growing or feeding people, and here I am. I am waiting for my latest bloodwork, which should be in any day now, but going by how I am feeling, i think i must need a med boost (currently on 50 of Levothyroxin) b/c I haven't felt this wiped out since I was dxd. I have been horrible about taking my vitamins lately, so I am going to do that as well b/c I have been deficient in vit D for a couple years.

Does anyone else have huge weight fluctuations? I immediately lost about 12 pounds when I started my meds and now I have gained 30 pounds or so over that weight







. I weigh now what I weighed at 9 months pg despite being much more active at work and not changing my diet. While the weight had obviosly made verything bigger, I am carrying a lot in my stomach, which I never have before. Along with the Thyroid numbers, my doc is also checking for PCOS, I don't know how those 2 things and their treatments would work together? My hcp is great about using the newer guidelines and is very open and greast to work with, but I am on a waiting list to get into a ND to see if that pathway can help as well.

I'll be back when I have current numbers, you are so knowledgeable about all of it, it's great!


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
Just an update:

I'm on day 10 of stopping Synthroid and taking Cytomel (T4) (remember that I still have Synthroid in my system for up to a month) - I feel AMAZING! I have so much energy, just like in the past. I haven't felt like this in YEARS! I cleaned out the linen closet and laundry room...like deep, scrubbing clean...and have energy left over. OMG.

*Question: My endo said that my thyroid is probably all gone by now, or I might have a bit left







He said that yes, there are some stories of them regenerating but none of the patients he knows of. Anyone know about this?*

I don't think it's a matter of regenerating. I'm guessing he means he doesn't see many patients who spontaneously improve in thyroid function. I haven't spontaneously improved, I've had to work at it, and everyone would have a different path to some extent, but quite a few people have improvements in thyroid function.

There are lots of routes to consider: acupuncture and other aspects of TCM; nutritional support (read at www.ithyroid.com for a good discussion of that approach, I gained a lot by reading there); considering food intolerances, esp gluten; reading about adrenal fatigue, and if it seems applicable, what (multiple) causes could be involved in causing it for you; looking at your overall pattern of health, both personally and your family history and addressing your personal weaknesses. Other stuff I'm sure, those are the things that spring to mind.

My understanding is that T3 levels rise and fall much more quickly than T4, so it makes sense that supplementing with T3 would provide much more improvement much more quickly. Glad you're feeling so much better!

Somewhere in the thread we discussed how selenium is required for conversion of T4 to T3, so since it sounds like that was a problem, it's something to look into.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
huh.
learn something new every day.









No kidding.

And I thought of you and your large weight loss recently when you upped your meds. Apparently this can be mucin loss, not just weight loss from a better metabolism.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
No kidding.

And I thought of you and your large weight loss recently when you upped your meds. Apparently this can be mucin loss, not just weight loss from a better metabolism.

My skin still isn't "loose"... but the weight loss continues.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

That's really great JR, how many grains are you up to now?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *janes* 
that's really great jr, how many grains are you up to now?

2 1/2


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## nadia105 (Jul 16, 2003)

I finally got my latest lab results back, and they are:

TSH: 2.05 range .4-4.5
Free T4: 1.0 range .8-1.8

I didn't remember to ask which labs would be run, I wish I had specifically asked about T3 an T4 numbers.

My energy is sooooo crappy right now, I have times in the afternoon when I literally can't keep my eyes open. I do get up at 3am for work, but I go to bed by 9 usually. The huge weight gain is a PITA, I have only ever weighed this much when I was 9 months pg







.

My hcp did have a hormone panel run too, but I don't have those back yet b/c they were sent out to another clinic. I don't know whether to hope for something in that that explains the symptoms or to keep digging in the thyroid stuff.

I have started on my vitamins again, I wasn't taking them very often b/c I couldn't take them in the am with the levothyroxine. My vits (shaklee) have a good level of selenium and iodine and Vitamin D, so I am hoping a few weeks of this will help? if it doesn't, i guess I will ask for a more complete thyroid panel and maybe a switch to another rx?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Nadia and everyone,

After extensive reading for past several months, I think these are completely unsufficient tests.... and in fact most thyroid tests are not always helpful b/c they do not tell the whole story of whether the thyroid hormone is actually being used by the cells of the body.

TSH can be artificially kept low by the cellular communication not responding properly. Meaning, if the cells are not continually accepting thyroid hormone and transmitting to the pituitary that the TSH should be raised... the TSH will be low and a mainstream doctor will tell you how great it is when really there is a problem.

And T4 is not the active thyroid hormone, it's only the storage version. There could also be problems converting the T4 to the active form: T3.

Mainstream thyroid views of the modern tests being a true judge of thyroid function leave out a lot of people with frank thyroid symptoms. Also treating with T4 only *will* bring down your TSH ... but studies reveal don't improve symptoms! Many functional medicine/alternative doctors focus on basal body temps, metabolism and physical examination/symptoms to reveal if the thyroid hormone is not working correctly in the body.

See these books, they are the best of the stacks on the thyroid that I've read recently:

"Solved: The Riddle of Illness" by Stephen Langer, MD
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/007...SIN=0071470573

"Hypothyroidism Type 2: The Epidemic" by Mark Starr, MD
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/097...SIN=0975262408

"Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms When My Lab Tests Are Normal? A Revolutionary Breakthrough In Understanding Hashimoto's Disease and Hypothyroidism" by Datis Kharrazian, DC
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/160...SIN=1600376703


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Also, rx? Are you taking Synthroid, sorry I can't go back and check thread, DS is waiting...

And selenium should be at least 200mcg of the active form: methylselenocysteine or the other active form I cannot remember right now.

Vitamin D is rarely adequate in multi's. You should get your levels tested and have it be in the high normal range. Just in normal low range is not always going to boost your immune system. I needed to do 10,000 IU per day for several months to get my blood levels up and now take 4,000 IU per day b/c I live in a northern state. I skip on beach days in summer.

Also adrenals should be looked at. That is my next intensive research project as adrenals effect the thyroid and vice versa.


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## nadia105 (Jul 16, 2003)

Thank you for the replies! I will see if I can get the T3 tested and addressed.

As for the vitamins, I should probably add more D, b/c I have been horribly deficient the past few years.

Another thing to add into the equation: a bfp today. Any innof on how this will change any meds., vitamins, etc is welcome!

I'm currently on 50mcg of Levothyroxine. I have heard that synthroid is much more consistent in it's levels of the drug in each batch, has anyone else heard that?


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Hi Nadia - yes, i've heard that one of the reasons docs love Synthroid is because of the consistency, vs Armour.

I just wanted to update: I think it's been about a month that I started T3/T4 combo and still feel 1000% better than I did for the 7 years I was only on T4. So much more 'get up and go' as well as sustained energy. I realized that part of my computer addiction in the past was because I simply could not muster the energy to DO anything. This is changing my life.

In a week I experiment with no T4, and increasing T3.

A month after that I experiment with Armour aka Thyroid in Canada.


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## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

When I first got pregnant dr. told me automatically (if I got a BFP or missed a period) to add 2 more pills to my week (I'm on levothyroxine as well). Then when I called and told him that I was pg he increased my dose even more. I felt GREAT during the first trimester. At 8 weeks my TSH was 1.4 which is the best it has ever been. Around 16 weeks I started having low-thyroid symptoms. At 18 weeks I got it tested and it was only up to 2.2 but I was told that even just being over 2 can generate problems. Anyway, that is what happened with me.


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## LiLStar (Jul 7, 2006)

Feeling a little bit overwhelmed







Its recently hit my radar that having my thyroid checked might be prudent. And from what i've seen, its not entirely...simple. All the complicatedness of making sure to test for all the necessary things, and many drs not knowing enough to do so. And from the links I've checked out (from this thread) its such a hugely complicated topic. And honestly..not that INTERESTING to me. So symptoms, yeah, I want them gone, but I don't want to have to become an expert on the topic to make that happen! I googled "thyroid" and my city and found a nurse practitioner who lists thyroid problems on her list of services, and from the little blurb in that section..she seems like she knows what she's doing. I get a pretty good impression from the website at least. I have an appt for monday.

Anyway.. I have depression (and all that entails with the mood swings and rages and irritability) that the SSRIs weren't touching, zero sex drive, (whether I'm on SSRIs or not) random aches in my leg muscles/knees, usually at night. intense sweets craving. There are frequent days that I eat more sweets than "regular food" I'm NOT gaining weight. I gained 65+ lbs both pregnancies, but easily returned to pre pregnancy weight both times. (115-120ish) Getting up in the morning is hell. I want to pummel anyone who wakes me. I never wake feeling refreshed, and left to my own devices would sleep till noon every day. plus a couple weird, isolated incidences that I suspect are related. One was yesterday, I just felt so nauseated all day for no apparent reason, no other symptoms. Just like morning sickness, except not pregnant. It came in waves, either mildly sick feeling, or holding back the urge to puke. The other time was about 3 weeks pp. I had traveled across country (yeah, 3 weeks pp..!) and like 2 days after arriving, I got plenty of sleep that night, then a couple hours after waking, took a long nap. Then got up, had a snack, watched a little bit of tv.. took another nice long nap. Got up long enough to go out to dinner with the ILs, then went right back to bed and slept for 12 hours. I literally slept as much as my newborn! The next day I was normal. At the time, I had no idea what my problem was, but now in hindsight I'm wondering if that was thyroid related.

Anyway.. does that sound like thyroid related? And I would looove to hear any stories of anyone who had "PPD" and didn't respond to antidepressants and then thyroid medication fixed?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Hey LilStar.
I can't say that I had PPD helped by medication but it doesn't sound plausible to me that your thyroid is underactive. However, I feel it necessary to ask.. Have you considered adrenal fatigue? With the birth of River and a move across the country, you must have had a lot of stress in the last year. Perhaps you could try adding a good B-complex, some vitamin C and magnesium and, if that doesn't help, an adrenal extract (adrenal glandular).







I hope that you find the answers you're seeking.
M is doing well over here- I seem to have lost the other May mamas.


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## OdinsMommy0409 (May 1, 2010)

Hi all,
New to this thread! I've had a Hashimoto's diagnosis since 2001, but I've had normal lab values since 2003 with no symptoms. Well, I just retested for Hashimoto's hpothyroid as well as some preliminary blood work (can't afford the saliva test right now) for adrenal fatigue and vitamin deficiencies.

My labs are as follows:
Thyroid antibodies
TPO - 418 (range 0-60). !!!!
Thryoglobulin - 128 (range 0-60)
T3 - 82.2 (range 80-204)

Ferritin - 28 (range 10-291)
Iron - 91 (range 42-145)

B12 - 485 (range 211-911)
D - 15 (range 30-89) !!!

I've started B-complex, Excellent multivitamin, D3 drops (5000 iu), and vitamin c. I'll be more diligent about digestive enzymes to aid in gluten metabolism, et.al. Fortunately, I know the quality of all my supplements are very high (buy them through my son's DAN! doctor who is also treating me). I haven't started any thyroid medication yet as I just received the results.

Any recommendations from those more experienced?

I have so many symptoms of adrenal fatigue, and it's been virtually impossible to lose any baby weight, mainly b/c of the adrenal fatigue being fed by the sugar monster


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

LilStar,
I mispoke last night. I meant to write that it doesn't sound IMplausible to me that you have a thyroid problem.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OdinsMommy0409* 
Hi all,
New to this thread! I've had a Hashimoto's diagnosis since 2001, but I've had normal lab values since 2003 with no symptoms. Well, I just retested for Hashimoto's hpothyroid as well as some preliminary blood work (can't afford the saliva test right now) for adrenal fatigue and vitamin deficiencies.

My labs are as follows:
Thyroid antibodies
TPO - 418 (range 0-60). !!!!
Thryoglobulin - 128 (range 0-60)
T3 - 82.2 (range 80-204)

Ferritin - 28 (range 10-291)
Iron - 91 (range 42-145)

B12 - 485 (range 211-911)
D - 15 (range 30-89) !!!

I've started B-complex, Excellent multivitamin, D3 drops (5000 iu), and vitamin c. I'll be more diligent about digestive enzymes to aid in gluten metabolism, et.al. Fortunately, I know the quality of all my supplements are very high (buy them through my son's DAN! doctor who is also treating me). I haven't started any thyroid medication yet as I just received the results.

Any recommendations from those more experienced?

I have so many symptoms of adrenal fatigue, and it's been virtually impossible to lose any baby weight, mainly b/c of the adrenal fatigue being fed by the sugar monster









Okay, that ferritin is WAY TOO LOW (and the blood iron's not too hot either). Iron is used by the thyroid to make T4 and if you don't have enough of it (iron), there is no way for you to have enough thyroid hormone. I don't know how to increase ferritin though besides iron supps and don't have recommendations for them.
In addition to the B Complex, I would consider a sublingual B-12.
I would also recommend selenium as it's been shown to reduce antibodies.


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## OdinsMommy0409 (May 1, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Okay, that ferritin is WAY TOO LOW (and the blood iron's not too hot either). Iron is used by the thyroid to make T4 and if you don't have enough of it (iron), there is no way for you to have enough thyroid hormone. I don't know how to increase ferritin though besides iron supps and don't have recommendations for them.
In addition to the B Complex, I would consider a sublingual B-12.
I would also recommend selenium as it's been shown to reduce antibodies.

I was thinking the same thing regarding my ferritin levels. I'll start taking the Floradix Iron & Herbs my 15 month old takes to see if I can get my stores back up.

Do you have any recommendations for a sublingual B12? And selenium supplement? I'm sure my doctor would have them, but he's 3 hours away so I'd rather find my options nearby.

Thank you so much for your help.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Hi everyone - I'm sorry I can't reply to the other posts as I don't have as much research knowledge...

Update again:

I am now on only T3, it's been 2 days - an increased dose than before. I still feel amazing. My energy levels are still better than they have been in 7 years. I feel like I am making up for lost time. My mental alertness has increased, as well as sustained energy levels and....zest for life.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OdinsMommy0409* 
I was thinking the same thing regarding my ferritin levels. I'll start taking the Floradix Iron & Herbs my 15 month old takes to see if I can get my stores back up.

Do you have any recommendations for a sublingual B12? And selenium supplement? I'm sure my doctor would have them, but he's 3 hours away so I'd rather find my options nearby.

Thank you so much for your help.

I use Jarrows Labs for B12. So long as it's not cyanocobalamin form, I'd say it's ok.








For selenium, I believe many on the thread eat 2 Brazil nuts daily. I take 200mcg daily- can't remember brand nor form atm.
Also, do you have amalgam (aka "silver") fillings?

hoping your newfound energy/zest continues, Cascadian!


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

Hmm, my recent ferritin level was 15 lab reference= 10-291
Iron serrum=73 lab reference 35-155
t4= 1.70

My doc did not make any changes or recommendations based on these numbers. Can I get some feedback please? I am feeling so hopeless and quite symptomatic.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

That ferritin is very low. When mine was 70, both my DO and my acupuncturist felt it was possible that part of my fatigue was related. I took a bottle of Perque's Anemia Guard, it's an iron supp (ferrous bisglycinate, an easily absorbed form) with some copper and B12, maybe a couple other B vits. Didn't help me, I think my fatigue was mostly adrenal, a bit thyroid, but it was good advice.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OdinsMommy0409* 
I was thinking the same thing regarding my ferritin levels. I'll start taking the Floradix Iron & Herbs my 15 month old takes to see if I can get my stores back up.

Do you have any recommendations for a sublingual B12? And selenium supplement? I'm sure my doctor would have them, but he's 3 hours away so I'd rather find my options nearby.

Thank you so much for your help.

Per dose, the B12 sold at holisticheal.com is the cheapest I've seen. There are lots of forms available there--hydroxy, methyl, adenosyl, there are sprays and stuff too, but the mega drops (in any or all of the forms above) is a good place to start. I've mostly used hydroxy, it seems to be the most easily tolerated form.

I buy almost everything online, it's just so much more affordable than buying locally for me (I'm in the continental US, if I weren't, it would probably be a different story). Thorne sells stand-alone selenium, there's also a reasonable amount, I think, in their multivit (that has real folate) or their mineral supps.


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tanyalynn* 
That ferritin is very low. When mine was 70, both my DO and my acupuncturist felt it was possible that part of my fatigue was related. I took a bottle of Perque's Anemia Guard, it's an iron supp (ferrous bisglycinate, an easily absorbed form) with some copper and B12, maybe a couple other B vits. Didn't help me, I think my fatigue was mostly adrenal, a bit thyroid, but it was good advice.


And that was a few months ago. I pulled out the lab report today to review it again and noticed the low ferritin level. Could that explain the swelling in my feet and mind fog? Of course, i still think I'm hypo even on 137mcg of synthyroid. I'll see the endo again in Oct and am going to challenge her to find a more effective treatment.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
And that was a few months ago. I pulled out the lab report today to review it again and noticed the low ferritin level. Could that explain the swelling in my feet and mind fog? Of course, i still think I'm hypo even on 137mcg of synthyroid. I'll see the endo again in Oct and am going to challenge her to find a more effective treatment.

Sadly, I've had lots of things cause brain fog. I think trying a bottle or two of a good quality iron supp is reasonable since you've had recent blood results (I wouldn't want to supp iron for myself or my kids w/o blood tests), there are multiple brands that sell iron as ferrous bisglycinate.

If you aren't already taking a supp with a good amount of selenium, maybe try that now (before you get new bloodwork)? Selenium can help with conversion of the T4 in synthroid to T3 that your cells use. You may be ok with that dosage of Synthroid if you add in the selenium, I mean. About 200 mcg of selenomethionine, there are other forms that are probably good too, selenium picolinate, I'd avoid sodium selenite and stuff that says it's from yeast.

I figure, for me, supp-ing iron removed one possible cause of my problems. If it helps, great, if not, you've reduced/eliminated one mineral deficiency and that should make it easier to find the actual cause.


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## OdinsMommy0409 (May 1, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I use Jarrows Labs for B12. So long as it's not cyanocobalamin form, I'd say it's ok.








For selenium, I believe many on the thread eat 2 Brazil nuts daily. I take 200mcg daily- can't remember brand nor form atm.
Also, do you have amalgam (aka "silver") fillings?

I'll check out Jarrows for B12 and get some brazil nuts for the selenium. We'll see if DS tolerates them.
Fortunately, no amalgam fillings but I do have many resin ones.


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## michelleklu (Aug 3, 2008)

My doctor wants me to see an endo asap for hyperthyroidism. I'm going to go and get my test results to read myself later. What treatment should I ask for? I'm so confused and upset because my doctor said I can't have any more children because I need radioactive iodine treatment. Should I ask for Armour? Do all thyroid problems have the same cause? I've read books and websites that suggest that. At what point does someone need the radioactive treatment?


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Armour is a thyroid hormone supplement, it's for people who have too little thyroid hormone circulating (HYPOthyroid). People who are HYPERthyroid have too much thyroid hormone circulating, their thyroids are overactive. It's the opposite state.

Here's a very alternative approach (ie, I wouldn't mention it to any conventional doc)... Conventionally speaking, there's a med (maybe a couple?) that a minority of people respond to, otherwise the idea is to destroy your thyroid and then put you on a thyroid hormone supplement for the rest of your life. My mom had Graves, a hyperthyroid state, and that's her situation now.

http://ithyroid.com/


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

If you go to see the endo and his first response is RAI, I would run far far away.
Please read this article for a good summary of the customary course of treatment. It's the best one I've found so far (not that I spend much time looking for articles on hypER since I'm hypO, but...).
The other thing which you might consider researching is low dose naltrexone.
And of course there is always the alternative approach which Tanya suggested.

eta: I've also read some suggestions on different places on the web which are controversial because they involve marijuana. Apparently there are certain varieties of marijuana which have a chemical which blocks the effects of thyroid hormone and can be prescribed medically.
Note that I am not advocating any of these approaches, but just laying out what I have read in different places in order for you to do further research on your options.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Just found this site as well, for anyone interested. "Alternative Health Solutions for Thyroid Autoimmunity"
Haven't explored it yet, but figured I'd throw it out here anyway.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

I wrote of my experience which is now buried somewhere in this thread, so I'll reiterate:

I was dxd with Graves initially and my endo prescribed radioactive ablation. I ran away from him, screaming, into the arms of a naturopath. I did a natural regimen that apparently fixed things enough for me to get PG (which is why I got dxd in the first place). I had a dietary overhaul, pills and a herbal tincture which did help.

When I got PG, I went back to my endo who put me on Synthroid because I was PG. Admittedly, my naturo did not have a huge background in thyroid issues and I was a bit of a guinea pig - it DID work, though. But I wasn't willing to be a pregnant guinea pig KWIM?

So...I didn't do the radiation, I'm managing fine on drugs. The thought of radiation scared the bejeezus out of me...think hitting a fly with a hammer. He just wanted to be able to manage me better rather than the constant blood tests and med changes. I don't mind, though, and they're not that constant (only when/if I feel something's off).

I did fire my endo, and got a new one who is trying a few things with me.


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## michelleklu (Aug 3, 2008)

Thank you tanyalynn, JacquelineR, and Cascadian.

I'm guessing you guys are referencing atithyroid drugs? The closest doctor under my insurance that says they're "not strictly" RAI is 1 1/2 hours away and the next appointment is in February but they said I may be able to get in earlier if my test results look severe. I feel like I'm going to get a lot of flack about not choosing RAI. I need to give it a shot. On average how long does it take ATDs to stabilize my thyroid so I can get pregnant?

Anyone have thoughts on beta blockers particularly on Propanolol? I'm currently taking them and the doctor says it helps manage Grave's. She told me I can't have children after RAI









I keep trying new doctors but they all end up fear mongering/incorrect.


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## michelleklu (Aug 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tanyalynn* 
Here's a very alternative approach (ie, I wouldn't mention it to any conventional doc)

What? Marijuana? Can you get that from somewhere other than a conventional doctor?


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

So Cascadian, you swung from hyper to hypo with the treatment from your naturopath? It does seem like that's not terribly atypical. I think my mom was hypo for years before she turned hyper, and I didn't know anything about thyroid stuff back then so she just went with the conventional treatment. I've read of other people swinging from hyper to hypo, sometimes back and forth a few times.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *michelleklu* 
What? Marijuana? Can you get that from somewhere other than a conventional doctor?

I don't know anything about marijuana for thyroid stuff. The discussion on ithyroid.com is all about mineral deficiencies (and some vitamin deficiencies) as being a big part of the cause of why our thyroids aren't functioning properly. I took the list of hypothyroid mineral and vitamin supps (he doesn't sell anything) and it helped significantly. I still had to figure out why this was so messed up in the first place, but it made me a lot more functional.

So, his list of stuff is doses of vitamins and esp minerals that are often quite a bit above the RDA. He doesn't discuss other things that are likely to be helpful like avoiding gluten (and maybe dairy and considering other food intolerances), and it's only recently that he's started talking about root causes for the mineral deficiencies a bit more. The only one I saw that he mentioned was mercury issues due to amalgam fillings--which turned out to be my issue, but he didn't have it on his website when I first found it.

And other stuff like acupuncture and other TCM approaches are also likely to be helpful. I love acupuncture, I just can't afford it enough to use it as much as I'd like.

ETA: the reason I said not to mention it to conventional docs is that a) mineral deficiencies aren't very well recognized IMO/IME by many doctors, and b) it is not considered a cause of thyroid problems (even if the cause isn't known, vit/min deficiencies surely aren't involved). The idea that you would treat thyroid problems alternatively is often considered nutty and inappropriate. I only went to one endocrinologist's office and it was clear that they absolutely followed the conventional approach, nothing else was valid, and my reading suggests that is a typical attitude (certainly not every endo, but the majority).


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

That's what I've read as well, Tanya, and my brief contact with one endo showed me.
Re: medical marijuana, as I said, I've only read briefly on the subject (a friend sent me a link) but it may be something you'd like to explore further. I have no idea how one would even begin to go about it though. And sorry for the confusion resulting which involved ithyroid.com in the mix.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Tanyalynn - this is a mystery to me, and I think I was initially misdxd. I believe I have Hashi's, and my new endo mentioned that I presented with Hashi's more than Grave's, or I had a subset of Grave's that also flip flops. Yes, I swung from hyper to hypo, though I'm wondering if the pregnancy had something to do with it.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cascadian* 
Tanyalynn - this is a mystery to me, and I think I was initially misdxd. I believe I have Hashi's, and my new endo mentioned that I presented with Hashi's more than Grave's, or I had a subset of Grave's that also flip flops. Yes, I swung from hyper to hypo, though I'm wondering if the pregnancy had something to do with it.

From what I remember of the ithyroid site, the theory is that people will initially present with hypO due to deficiencies (although they may not recognize themselves as hypO while it's occurring) but, as time goes on and the deficiencies become more severe, they will switch to hypER. When one begins healing from hypER, it would (in my mind) follow that one would at some point become hypO again on the road to recovery. IF this is true, and you were working with a ND to correct these deficiencies, it would seem that you were doing a good job of healing.


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## michelleklu (Aug 3, 2008)

I'm going in to get an ultrasound tomorrow to see if I have thyroid cancer. If they find benign growths should I ask for them to get removed anyway? If they have to remove my thyroid should I opt for surgical instead of RAI?

I have another question regarding iodine. I started taking up to 4 drops of Lugol's because I really felt I had Hashimoto's. I'm not sure if I do but I'm trying to get my lab results tomorrow to read the numbers for myself. The doctor's office always seems closed. Anyway, when I took it I felt so much better - had a lot more energy actually just felt so much better overall, lowered my blood pressure to normal, my heart rate stopped being deathly fast, and my thyroid wasn't swollen anymore. I did notice I got frequent nosebleeds when I was taking a lot of it. If I have Graves disease then why did taking iodine help? I swear I read something like if your thyroid is working incorrectly then something? attacks your thyroid and releases the chemicals/hormones/something and that results in being hyper. I'm so confused. I cannot remember for the life of me where I read that. I have been supplementing with coconut oil, iodine, a multi vitamin that has selenium and supplements derived from plants, and eating virtually no soy. I felt so much better.

What can I expect if it is cancer and they want to see what stage? Would I fine needle biopsy be sufficient? What if they want to do a MRI or something? Would that harm my thyroid? If it is cancer how much time do I have to get a second opinion - for papillary and malignant?

I have so much more what if its cancer questions but I think those are the main ones I need to know so I don't get rushed into something I will regret. Elaine Moore seems to answer all the questions on her Q&A so I'll be sure to post there once I find out what's going on. I'm scared.


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## Theloose (Aug 5, 2005)

Finally joining the thread, without the brainpower to read the whole thing.















I just get computer time in spurts these days, so I thought I might just post a bunch of questions? Feel free to point me to other reading. And I'm kind of assuming there are no answers for most of these...

Why does ithyroid say to start selenium slow?
If, after eating a bunch of brazilnuts I started to get a sore throat, and a glass of iodine water (atomidine, about 4-5mg worth of iodine, I'd guess) made it go away in minutes, what does that tell me?

Is there an established cause/effect relationship between belly weight/insulin resistance and thyroid? If so, which way does it go?

Has Jane gotten the discussion about mucin going over here yet?

Sore bottoms of the feet/heel, especially after laying down - is that a thyroid thing? Maybe a mucin thing?

Does the thyroid ever do *better* during (a well supported) pregnancy?

Lots of hair falling out 4.5mo postpartum - lack of showers/brushing hair, baby pulling it all out, normal postpartum, or thyroid crashing?

Can not getting enough sleep be a *cause* of thyroid stuff?

My history is strong adrenal symptoms that respond magically to vitamins, blood sugar/insulin issues that I'm catching early, and mild, maybe-hypothyroid symptoms that are getting more obvious in the past few months. And a load of food sensitivities/nutrient deficiencies/healing going on right now. Tests (TSH, fT3, fT4, from a year ago) are normal, but possibly underconversion of T4->T3. My mom has just about every thyroid symptom, but completely normal bloodwork. We're thinking cell resistance for her.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Is there an established cause/effect relationship between belly weight/insulin resistance and thyroid? If so, which way does it go?

Has Jane gotten the discussion about mucin going over here yet?

Sore bottoms of the feet/heel, especially after laying down - is that a thyroid thing? Maybe a mucin thing?

Does the thyroid ever do *better* during (a well supported) pregnancy?

Lots of hair falling out 4.5mo postpartum - lack of showers/brushing hair, baby pulling it all out, normal postpartum, or thyroid crashing?

Can not getting enough sleep be a *cause* of thyroid stuff?

I can only answer a couple of your questions, so I've erased a bunch of your post.








I have read that there are a couple of ways that the thyroid/insulin resistance thing can play out. I can't remember much about it though.








Jane has not started the mucin discussion over here yet that I've seen.
Sore bottoms of the feet/heel- also known as plantar fasciitis- has a known connection to hypothyroidism. MSM (along with the various other vitamins I was already taking) helped me with the symptoms. *eta:The MSM helped for a few months but then symptoms returned. I'm not certain what changed. Also, this may be a mucin thing, since mucin has to do with inflammation, right? and all the suggested treatements I've seen for this condition involve anti-inflammatories. However, even with my thyroid replacement seemingly at optimal now and apparently losing mucin weight, I haven't seen a further reduction in plantar fasciitis symptoms.*
The thyroid may appear to do better during pregnancy after the first trimester as that is when the baby's thyroid becomes active. As long as mom is consuming enough of the necessary nutrients to produce the hormones, the baby's thyroid may then give the woman a "boost". This was the case for me (though I didn't know it) with both DS1 and DS2.)
By lots of hair, what do you mean? When I was diagnosed with hypoT, the hair falling out of my head was BAD. When I brushed my hair, I had to clean the brush halfway through, even if I had brushed it earlier the same day. When I washed my hair, I had to clean the shower drain halfway through because otherwise I'd flood the floor of the shower. If I ran my hand through my hair, I had a handful of hair, not just some strands, but LOTS of hair. Additionally, my eyebrows started thinning/falling out as well.
I believe that any form of stress, including sleep deprivation, can be a cause for thyroid problems.
With your response to vitamins, I would suggest looking at ithyroid.com for information which may be useful.
HTH somehow.


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## Theloose (Aug 5, 2005)

Thanks!









Do you think the MSM might have run down your Mo, and so that's why the plantar fasciitis came back? Did the other stuff it was helping with come back? I'm definitely burning through Mo right now. I had it some for years, definitely had it pre-ds, it went away while pg, and now it's back, more than ever.

After dd was born, I gained weight for the first time in my life (pregnancy practically included), kept it on till I got pg with ds, then almost immediately (still first tri, I was also taking 1-5mg doses of iodine) went back to my normal skinniness. As soon as ds was born, weight back on.

Hair loss isn't nearly that extreme, it's just more than I've ever noticed before. You know how if you don't shower/brush your hair one day, then the next you get a ton when you finally do? I feel like that every time I run my hands through my hair. Of course, its entirely possible that it's just ds pulling it out and me not brushing often enough









ithyroid - the site seems messed up, the links on the left point to the guy's home computer, so I've been hand typing them in, but it seems like something's still missing from the pages. I'll keep trying, though.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

yes I did and JR answered me too









Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 

I'm reading Dr. Mark Starr's book Hypothyroidism Type 2. VERY interesting.
http://www.21centurymed.com/?page_id=12

I have myexadema of the upper arm which is another classic hypo sx. It's easier to see with his pics that illustrate the issue, which I cannot find online. But apparently if you pinch the skin of your upper arm, the skin is supposed to be loose, regardless of how chubby or thin you are. I pinch and I get a big thick wad of skin and tissue. This is accumulated mucin.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
yes I did and JR answered me too









Oh. That was in THIS thread?















Oh man. I'm going to bed!


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
Thanks!









Do you think the MSM might have run down your Mo, and so that's why the plantar fasciitis came back? Did the other stuff it was helping with come back? I'm definitely burning through Mo right now. I had it some for years, definitely had it pre-ds, it went away while pg, and now it's back, more than ever.

Hmm.
I take 1mg/day of Mo. you think i might need more?
I changed brands but can't remember the name of the original brand now... hmm


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## Theloose (Aug 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Hmm.
I take 1mg/day of Mo. you think i might need more?
I changed brands but can't remember the name of the original brand now... hmm

I have the nutricology drops. 3 drops=75mcg. I do a half a dropperful a few times a day, and feel it if I forget, but vie also been mobilizing stuf including tungsten which specifically depletes Mo. I've done country life tablets, too, and can say that the drops are absorbed much, much better than those. I'd say it might be worth a try to experiment with more? If you're taking a lot of MSM, it needs the Mo to convert to sulfate.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
I have the nutricology drops. 3 drops=75mcg. I do a half a dropperful a few times a day, and feel it if I forget, but vie also been mobilizing stuf including tungsten which specifically depletes Mo. I've done country life tablets, too, and can say that the drops are absorbed much, much better than those. I'd say it might be worth a try to experiment with more? If you're taking a lot of MSM, it needs the Mo to convert to sulfate.

Yeah mine are the 1,000mcg Carlson tablets... I think I was supposed to be taking it 2x's/day come to think of it. I really need to write it down someplace.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

I still haven't been able to convince my doctor to try treating me for hypothyroid. I read here and elsewhere about selenium and thyroid so have had 2 brazil nuts a day and green smoothies since mid July as I wasn't getting anywhere with my GP.

I got tested for Free T3 (4.2mol/L) and Free T4 (15.7pmol/L) last week and both are in 'normal' ranges. My TSH in July was 4.1 and now on re-testing it is 1.92. Can increasing selenium really have this effect?

I still don't feel that good though so what does this mean? If I continue with the selenium will I start to feel better and better? I can't really manage needing more than 10 hours sleep a day to feel half-human...


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
I still haven't been able to convince my doctor to try treating me for hypothyroid. I read here and elsewhere about selenium and thyroid so have had 2 brazil nuts a day and green smoothies since mid July as I wasn't getting anywhere with my GP.

I got tested for Free T3 (4.2mol/L) and Free T4 (15.7pmol/L) last week and both are in 'normal' ranges. My TSH in July was 4.1 and now on re-testing it is 1.92. Can increasing selenium really have this effect?

I still don't feel that good though so what does this mean? If I continue with the selenium will I start to feel better and better? I can't really manage needing more than 10 hours sleep a day to feel half-human...

Yes, it can have that effect if there is a conversion problem and/or if the selenium has decreased antibodies.
You might consider researching adrenal fatigue.


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## tanyalynn (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
Can increasing selenium really have this effect?


Yeah, it can do a lot. My dog was hypothyroid, had been on doggie synthroid for a few years, but was starting to have other health issues I felt were related, and I started fiddling with selenium and some other things for her, had to reduce her thyroid meds more and more and eventually stopped them. I'm still working to keep her happy and feeling good (a bit tricky to figure out sometimes since she's a half-blind, half-deaf 13-year old lab) but yeah, it can make a big difference.

Have you read the adrenal fatigue thread? The fatigue from both can be hard to separate, it sounds like you've made a lot of change to your thyroid function, but adrenal stuff is different, there are more lifestyle things involved, stress reduction, and maybe stuff that's more underlying, food intolerances were important for me to identify, if there's an underlying reason why you became hypothyroid, looking for that and reducing/eliminating that stress. It took me a long time to separate the fatigue due to thyroid problems from the fatigue due to worn down adrenals, but starting to consider that may be helpful.


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## ILoveMyBabyBird (Sep 2, 2006)

okay ladies, i finally got my test results from a couple months back. My TSH 3 is 1.80 mIU/L and my T4 is .9 ng/dL which looks pretty low/normal range to me. So back to reality and I am finally pregnant as of a few weeks ago and surprisingly I am feeling better with my symptoms that before pregnancy. Is that normal?

ETA: i did start taking iodine supplement and d3 just prior to pregnancy which may have helped. I am unsure of the the acceptable levels while pregnant so have cut back to taking the pills only about 1-2x each week. (660m/g of iodine) and 1000iu's of d3


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## nadia105 (Jul 16, 2003)

Have any of you ladies had kids before and after you were dx hypo? Before I was, my first 3 kids were the easiest pregnancies ever. Felt great, no m/s at all, breezed through. This one, however, is kicking my butt -- big time. I have to nap everyday, I am nauseous almost all day, threw up the other day, and overall feel like crap. I'm 8 weeks and really hoping it ends with the first tri, any hope?

My mw had all the thyroid levels checked along with vitamins and the reg pg panel the other day, so hopefully I will know soon if one of those is glaringly off (I have been D deficient for years, and have been taking 2000IU to try to help)


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ILoveMyBabyBird* 
okay ladies, i finally got my test results from a couple months back. My TSH 3 is 1.80 mIU/L and my T4 is .9 ng/dL which looks pretty low/normal range to me. So back to reality and I am finally pregnant as of a few weeks ago and surprisingly I am feeling better with my symptoms that before pregnancy. Is that normal?

ETA: i did start taking iodine supplement and d3 just prior to pregnancy which may have helped. I am unsure of the the acceptable levels while pregnant so have cut back to taking the pills only about 1-2x each week. (660m/g of iodine) and 1000iu's of d3

Increase your D3!! It has been shown to prevent serious metabolic disorders.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nadia105* 
Have any of you ladies had kids before and after you were dx hypo? Before I was, my first 3 kids were the easiest pregnancies ever. Felt great, no m/s at all, breezed through. This one, however, is kicking my butt -- big time. I have to nap everyday, I am nauseous almost all day, threw up the other day, and overall feel like crap. I'm 8 weeks and really hoping it ends with the first tri, any hope?

My mw had all the thyroid levels checked along with vitamins and the reg pg panel the other day, so hopefully I will know soon if one of those is glaringly off (I have been D deficient for years, and have been taking 2000IU to try to help)

Well, when preparing for pregnancy your TSH should actually be 1 *or lower.* After a pregnancy confirmation, TSH is supposed to be kept below 2. I know that, when my thyroid is off, I feel nauseated so it may be a contributing factor. And remember that your thyroid levels should be checked every 6 weeks MAX throughout pregnancy!
I have had 2 pregnancies pre-dx and one post. The third was the worst for nausea by far, with me being dx'd with "borderline" hyperemesis gravidarum. However, my nausea got progressively worse with each pregnancy, so which is it? Natural course of my pregnancies or the result of my thyroid function decreasing? Hard to say.
Regardless, I hope that you find some relief soon.


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## nadia105 (Jul 16, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Increase your D3!! It has been shown to prevent serious metabolic disorders.

Well, when preparing for pregnancy your TSH should actually be 1 *or lower.* After a pregnancy confirmation, TSH is supposed to be kept below 2. I know that, when my thyroid is off, I feel nauseated so it may be a contributing factor. And remember that your thyroid levels should be checked every 6 weeks MAX throughout pregnancy!
I have had 2 pregnancies pre-dx and one post. The third was the worst for nausea by far, with me being dx'd with "borderline" hyperemesis gravidarum. However, my nausea got progressively worse with each pregnancy, so which is it? Natural course of my pregnancies or the result of my thyroid function decreasing? Hard to say.
Regardless, I hope that you find some relief soon.

Thank you! My mw is hypo too, so I think she will be helpful, but it is really nice to have some concrete numbers to talk with her about. I saw her monday at 8 weeks and could either go back at 10 or 12, maybe I will go with 10 to talk over results and plan of action.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
I still haven't been able to convince my doctor to try treating me for hypothyroid. I read here and elsewhere about selenium and thyroid so have had 2 brazil nuts a day and green smoothies since mid July as I wasn't getting anywhere with my GP.

I got tested for Free T3 (4.2mol/L) and Free T4 (15.7pmol/L) last week and both are in 'normal' ranges. My TSH in July was 4.1 and now on re-testing it is 1.92. Can increasing selenium really have this effect?

I still don't feel that good though so what does this mean? If I continue with the selenium will I start to feel better and better? I can't really manage needing more than 10 hours sleep a day to feel half-human...

Your TSH of 4 is high its not normal. However, I just noticed that it's now below 2, which is better and that was probably the Se. Animal tests show that deficiency in key nutrients will influence thyroid greatly. Have you also tested ferritin? I just read recently that Broda Barnes rec ferritin very high, at top of lab ranges.

Sorry I was reading too fast when I submitted my first post.

But go by your symptoms, not lab tests.

*TSH - Why It's Useless*
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...y-its-useless/

*Hypothyroidism Type 2*
http://www.21centurymed.com/?page_id=12


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ILoveMyBabyBird* 
1000iu's of d3

too low unless you are tanning in a bathing suit everyday
www.vitamindcouncil.org


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 

But go by your symptoms, not lab tests.

*TSH - Why It's Useless*
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com...y-its-useless/

*Hypothyroidism Type 2*
http://www.21centurymed.com/?page_id=12

Thanks. I read the first link a few months ago when I first started looking into this and *I'm* sticking with my symptoms but the problem is that here in the UK 4-5 for TSH is normal ref range. She wasn't interested in treating me when my TSH was 4; now it is 1.9 she is even less interested and thinks that my symptoms are down to stress.

My serum ferritin is 63.3ug/l which is not considered to be low either as she says 50-70 is ok. My B12 is 297ng/L ???

I can't get a referral to a specialist with these labs and my GP isn't interested.

Thanks tanyalynn and JacquelineR for your responses earlier. I've been reading about AF now and starting to do what I can for that now.

Unfortunately I have a blood clotting disorder called Protein S Deficency and due to having a DVT I am on long term warfarin - Coumadin in the US.

An awful lot of supplements and foods interact negatively with warfarin and I absolutely cannot be outside by safe range for blood clotting time because I can't manage to live with either another DVT or a GI or intercranial bleed.

My haemo has me on the list for taking a new anticoagulant as soon as it is licensed for long term use and this will free me to support my body better.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yes, this is the problem... it's hard to find a doctor locally which goes by Broda Barnes, Stephen Langer's, and Mark Starr's methods. It's really ridiculous.

In the UK, there is Dr. Myhill in Wales and Dr. Skinner in **********. And another I can't remember right now.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Oh and once your blood B12 is low you are seriously low, I like Jarrow methyl B12 sublingual.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Joining this thread...I don't think I ever knew it existed till now!

I've been hypo for almost twenty years now after having had Grave's disease. Got the RAI treatment and went on Synthroid. I never felt good on Synthroid, though...always felt like I was less of myself, and started gaining weight, etc. Eventually I moved, found an endo and he put me on Armour, which was noticeably better.

Due to my own stupidity, I didn't keep up with my appointments as I should have, and just recently found out my TSH levels were 38.8, at 7 weeks pregnant!!! That explained the deathly exhaustion I had, the copious amounts of hair I was losing, the depression, etc. Why I didn't attribute it all to my thyroid, I don't know. I mean, I've had this problem long enough to know what the symptoms mean...

What I don't understand is why my TSH was so high since before getting pregnant, I'd lost almost 40 pounds. ???

Anyway, at my last check the TSH level was at 17, and I'm due back in today for more bloodwork.

I am overwhelmingly exhausted, though. The littlest things poop me out. I'm ready for a nap after doing something as simple as washing dishes or doing a load of laundry!

I've been reading in this thread about supplements like selenium and b12.... can anyone give more info on that? And what about iodine? Does Celtic sea salt (the real stuff) contain iodine?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Anastasiya,
In this thread and the first thyroid thread, nutrients are discussed that effect thyroid function.
However, since you probably have little thyroid gland left, if you have any symptoms, it seems like first you should be taking more hormone until they go away. This is especially important while pg.
Celtic sea salt contains very little iodine, it shouldnt be your own source.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Update again:

Hi everyone - this is month 3, and I've started my 3rd experimental regimen.

Month 2 - I was on Cytomel only - felt excellent, and had a superb amount of energy.

I just took my first Armour pill an hour ago (I actually forgot to splice it in half and take half at night and day...might get a little hyper tonight  ) I don't know what to expect as this is a totally different beast...

Anyone here prefer Armour? What's your experience with it?


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

Nice to find a thread for thyroid issues!

I was diagnosed with hypo twenty years ago and my meds were regularly adjusted. I switched to Armour about five years ago because my T3 numbers were low.

I was on 3 grains, but my numbers were off, so my doctor upped my dose to 5 grains. Which I started about 9 weeks ago. I am also about 9 weeks pregnant, and my OB panels showed that my TSH was .01... my OB put me back on 3 grains yesterday, but now I'm worried about being hypo again. I'm so nervous this time about my thyroid levels and the baby. It was a surprise, a welcome one, but I would have liked to have gotten my thyroid straightened out first!


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aliah79* 
Nice to find a thread for thyroid issues!

I was diagnosed with hypo twenty years ago and my meds were regularly adjusted. I switched to Armour about five years ago because my T3 numbers were low.

I was on 3 grains, but my numbers were off, so my doctor upped my dose to 5 grains. Which I started about 9 weeks ago. I am also about 9 weeks pregnant, and my OB panels showed that my TSH was .01... my OB put me back on 3 grains yesterday, but now I'm worried about being hypo again. I'm so nervous this time about my thyroid levels and the baby. It was a surprise, a welcome one, but I would have liked to have gotten my thyroid straightened out first!

I'm worried right along with you, but my numbers are crazy. My doctor said I shouldn't have even been able to conceive.

I'm on 3 grains of Armour right now, but I suspect they'll be upping it again. My last results were 17 TSH.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aliah79* 
Nice to find a thread for thyroid issues!

I was diagnosed with hypo twenty years ago and my meds were regularly adjusted. I switched to Armour about five years ago because my T3 numbers were low.

I was on 3 grains, but my numbers were off, so my doctor upped my dose to 5 grains. Which I started about 9 weeks ago. I am also about 9 weeks pregnant, and my OB panels showed that my TSH was .01... my OB put me back on 3 grains yesterday, but now I'm worried about being hypo again. I'm so nervous this time about my thyroid levels and the baby. It was a surprise, a welcome one, but I would have liked to have gotten my thyroid straightened out first!

Why in the world would you drop it by an entire 2 grains? Why not try 1 grain or even 1/2 grain?


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Why in the world would you drop it by an entire 2 grains? Why not try 1 grain or even 1/2 grain?

I don't know, but I don't think my GP should have increased it by 2 grains right away either. I probably would have felt more comfortable with going to 4 grains, either time and retesting. I am debating on whether to go ahead with 4 now, knowing that I was hypo at 3, and that I usually need it upped during pregnancy.


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anastasiya* 
I'm worried right along with you, but my numbers are crazy. My doctor said I shouldn't have even been able to conceive.

I'm on 3 grains of Armour right now, but I suspect they'll be upping it again. My last results were 17 TSH.

Crossing my fingers for you! That is quite up there...hope they get it figured out soon!


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aliah79* 
I don't know, but I don't think my GP should have increased it by 2 grains right away either. I probably would have felt more comfortable with going to 4 grains, either time and retesting. I am debating on whether to go ahead with 4 now, knowing that I was hypo at 3, and that I usually need it upped during pregnancy.

Oh, I don't think that was the smartest move on the block either, no, so we're in total agreement there. However, I have learned the hard way (and you probably have too) that you often have to fight with doctors in order to get them to be reasonable on this matter. And, when you're pregnant, this is not just effecting you but also your child. It is dangerous to your unborn child to be hypo while pregnant.
Personally, I would probably do 4 and phone my practitioner to let him/her know that was what I was doing and why (hypo at 3, now pregnant so 2 reasons to increase).


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
It is dangerous to your unborn child to be hypo while pregnant

Any info on this? From what I've read, it's more dangerous to be hyper while pregnant than it is to be hypo.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anastasiya* 
Any info on this? From what I've read, it's more dangerous to be hyper while pregnant than it is to be hypo.

From this site:

Quote:

You are your baby's only source of source of thyroid hormones at this point - your baby's thyroid gland isn't fully functional until after 12 weeks of pregnancy. If you don't have sufficient thyroid hormones, you are at an increased risk of miscarriage, and your baby is at increased risk of developmental problems.
Additionally:

Quote:

Normal TSH, but low Free T4 (FT4), can be problematic during pregnancy. According to research presented at the June 2000 Endocrine Society conference ("Maternal Thyroid Function During Early Pregnancy and Neurodevelopment of the Offspring," June 21, 2000, Clinical Symposium: Impact of Maternal Thyroid Function on the Fetus and Neonate) there is increasing evidence that even normal FT4 levels that fall into the lowest tenth percentile during the early stages of pregnancy can be associated with poor infant development.
From what I've read, the best outcomes are found for babies whose (hypo) mothers had optimized their TSH to <1 pre-pregnancy and kept it <2 for their pregnancy.
And, having watched my sister suffer loss after loss due to Graves', I won't argue as to which is more dangerous. They are BOTH dangerous and should both be avoided.


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anastasiya* 
Any info on this? From what I've read, it's more dangerous to be hyper while pregnant than it is to be hypo.

It's dangerous either way. Threat of miscarriage both ways... I'm only 9 weeks, so that's one of my biggest worries. With hypo (untreated) baby is more likely to have abnormalities, lower IQ or learning disabilities....


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I won't argue as to which is more dangerous. They are BOTH dangerous and should both be avoided.

I'm not intending to start an argument, but I think I'd be more wary of upping my meds without doctor's input than keeping things as they are until I can see him, if I were the pp. She could be sending herself back into hyper mode.

Sorry about your sister's losses.









I am a bit panicked myself, if you've read my earlier posts. My TSH was far out of range early on, and likely still is.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anastasiya* 
I'm not intending to start an argument, but I think I'd be more wary of upping my meds without doctor's input than keeping things as they are until I can see him, if I were the pp. She could be sending herself back into hyper mode.

Sorry about your sister's losses.









I am a bit panicked myself, if you've read my earlier posts. My TSH was far out of range early on, and likely still is.

You're entitled to your opinion. However, I was forced to do just that during my last pregnancy so I have a different perspective. Obviously, the dose she was at *before pregnancy* wasn't high enough to keep even just herself from being hypo. Apparently the crazy high increase in meds was too much for both her and the baby. I don't think that going back to the dose that was keeping her hypo previous to her increased thyroid needs (because of pregnancy) is wise.

I had read your previous posts but I just went back to re-read them. I can understand your concerns. I was being kept barely in range prior to pregnancy (my PCP at the time basically told me that my asking for an increase in thyroid meds was like a body builder asking for steroids). My TSH wasn't as high as yours when I found out I was pregnant (it was about 10ish) and my son is wonderful, but I cannot, in good conscience, say that it's "okay" to be hypo while pregnant when I know that it is not. I'm sorry that you are struggling with getting your levels to an appropriate place but I cannot sugar coat this information particularly when I see what I consider to be a potentially dangerous medication change being made by a doctor.


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## Adamsmama (Oct 24, 2003)

What would you say, if your TSH was 1.4 during the 1st trimester (after doc. raised meds) ... and then 2nd trimester was 2.22 and now in the 3rd it is 2.96. I felt absolutely the best (energy wise) I ever have during the 1st trimester ... by week 16 I started to get tired out and then they raised my meds around week 22 ... now at 29 weeks I feel so exhausted and moody. I just don't want to do anything ... I can't think straight ... and I'm sleeping in late every day (thankfully my kids are letting me do this!). My drs. both OB and endo don't think it is a big deal. Is it? I really want my levels below a 2.


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

I'm going to talk to my doctor today about it. But I do feel that staying on 3 will put me back into hypo. I don't want to be either, so the compromise would be 4. I've been dealing with this for twenty years, so I kind of have a handle on how things work. My dose has always been upped during pregnancy as well, so that's coming in a couple of weeks, too. I appreciate all the advice







It's amazing how many woman have thyroid issues...I know mine was hereditary - my cousin and I are the spitting image of our grandmother. Some days I just feel like it's not fair.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aliah79* 

I was on 3 grains, but my numbers were off, so my doctor upped my dose to 5 grains. Which I started about 9 weeks ago. I am also about 9 weeks pregnant, and my OB panels showed that my TSH was .01... my OB put me back on 3 grains yesterday, but now I'm worried about being hypo again. I'm so nervous this time about my thyroid levels and the baby. It was a surprise, a welcome one, but I would have liked to have gotten my thyroid straightened out first!

I'm confused. Isn't your TSH supposed to be suppressed if you are treated optimally with exogenous thyroid hormone?

My understanding is that a low TSH like this *if you are being treated* does not signify hyperthyroidism but the fact that your body is actually getting enough thyroid hormone so the pituitary is not being stimulated to produce more.

If you have a low TSH of .01 and *are not being treated* then you are hyperthyroid.

Did you have hyper symptoms? If not, you were not hyper and a functional medicine doctor would have kept you on the dose that eliminated all your symptoms. Reducing it because of labs doesn't make sense if you didn't have the sx to back it up.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Adamsmama* 
What would you say, if your TSH was 1.4 during the 1st trimester (after doc. raised meds) ... and then 2nd trimester was 2.22 and now in the 3rd it is 2.96. I felt absolutely the best (energy wise) I ever have during the 1st trimester ... by week 16 I started to get tired out and then they raised my meds around week 22 ... now at 29 weeks I feel so exhausted and moody. I just don't want to do anything ... I can't think straight ... and I'm sleeping in late every day (thankfully my kids are letting me do this!). My drs. both OB and endo don't think it is a big deal. Is it? I really want my levels below a 2.

You might want to read and print out that page which I just posted. Have you had your FT4 levels tested? TSH really doesn't tell you a whole lot.

And yes, JaneS, it IS supposed to be suppressed, particularly when dealing with autoimmune hypoT, but most doctors don't give a flying farfanugan and just want to make sure the "numbers" are right and you can go beat the ground for all they care. Since "the numbers" say that a TSH of <0.4 = hyperT, that is what they treat it as, regardless of what the truth is. Hence comments from, and opinions of, doctors to, and about, people asking for thyroid med increases being "drug seeking" ("like body builders asking for steroids").









eta: That is not to say that a TSH of 0.1 is the "right" number for EVERYone, just that it *could* be the right "number" for some people, but the only real way to know that is: FT4, FT3 and SYMPTOMS. TSH is basically only useful for the diagnosis of hypo (and even then is flawed and depended upon too much).


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
And yes, JaneS, it IS supposed to be suppressed, particularly when dealing with autoimmune hypoT, but most doctors don't give a flying farfanugan and just want to make sure the "numbers" are right and you can go beat the ground for all they care. Since "the numbers" say that a TSH of <0.4 = hyperT, that is what they treat it as, regardless of what the truth is. Hence comments from, and opinions of, doctors to, and about, people asking for thyroid med increases being "drug seeking" ("like body builders asking for steroids").









eta: That is not to say that a TSH of 0.1 is the "right" number for EVERYone, just that it *could* be the right "number" for some people, but the only real way to know that is: FT4, FT3 and SYMPTOMS.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
TSH is basically only useful for the diagnosis of hypo (and even then is flawed and depended upon too much).

And only if it's high.

If it's low, it still doesn't mean your thyroid function is okay due to potential thyroid resistance or impaired conversion of T4 to T3 (as I sit here with FREEZING cold feet, fully dressed in two layers, in a 74 degree room).


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
My TSH wasn't as high as yours when I found out I was pregnant (it was about 10ish) and my son is wonderful,

Which son? Because as you know, my information now is leading me to believe that my "standard labs are normal but alternative labs and symptoms are clearly not" thyroid malfunction could be at the root of my DS's allergy and intolerance issues.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Which son? Because as you know, my information now is leading me to believe that my "standard labs are normal but alternative labs and symptoms are clearly not" thyroid malfunction could be at the root of my DS's allergy and intolerance issues.

DS3. And it's true that he appears to have an allergy or intolerance to milk and soy... so far.







that that's all.


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

Yes I did have hyper symptoms... I couldn't sleep and was jittery, hyped up. I've lost 11lbs in two months (no morning sickness either) and have been extremely hungry. So, the dose was not right. I've spoken with my doctor and we've decided to stay on 3 grains, with another test in a couple of weeks. In the first trimester, it's common for the TSH to be lower anyway - that on top of the increased meds, caused me to go hyper. (It was .01, not 0.1). In the second trimester, I will go hypo again (as I have with both previous pregnancies), and my meds will be increased to compensate.

I've had more than just the TSH run before. I don't convert T4 to T3 properly, which is why I'm on Armour now. The trick is finding the right doctor, and believe me, I've been to a ton. I had an endo who refused to do anything but the TSH test and wasn't interested in treating my PCOS / Insulin Resistance - I didn't go back. I'm looking for a new endo now, because my GP is definitely not working out.

Oh - and I do feel better on a higher dose. After I have a baby, they keep me on the higher dose for 6 weeks and I feel great, but when they drop it back down to "normal" - I feel like crap again. But as someone mentioned before - they won't leave it upped if my numbers are "normal" - they don't care about symptoms, just the numbers.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Okay, so I got my numbers from the endo today. Can someone explain this to me, because I didn't have time to ask him this morning.

In July, at seven weeks pregnant, my obgyn tested my thyroid and the results were TSH 35.18 (a bit less than I had remembered them telling me on the phone), which is really, really high, and my FT4 was .7, so a bit low (at least according to this paper I have which says it should be between .82-1.77).

Three weeks ago my results were TSH 17.460, FT4 1.12 and FT3 1.5.

Why on earth, if my FT4 is in the normal range or a bit low, do I feel like sheer and utter crapola, and WHY is my pituitary gland acting as though I have no T4 at all in my system, what with the high TSH levels?

I'm confused.

I just went in for my latest bloodwork today so I'm waiting on those results.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anastasiya* 
Okay, so I got my numbers from the endo today. Can someone explain this to me, because I didn't have time to ask him this morning.

In July, at seven weeks pregnant, my obgyn tested my thyroid and the results were TSH 35.18 (a bit less than I had remembered them telling me on the phone), which is really, really high, and my FT4 was .7, so a bit low (at least according to this paper I have which says it should be between .82-1.77).

Three weeks ago my results were TSH 17.460, FT4 1.12 and FT3 1.5.

Why on earth, if my FT4 is in the normal range or a bit low, do I feel like sheer and utter crapola, and WHY is my pituitary gland acting as though I have no T4 at all in my system, what with the high TSH levels?

I'm confused.

I just went in for my latest bloodwork today so I'm waiting on those results.

According to what I've read, FT4 should be in the top 1/3rd of the range... So, that would mean above 1.18. Also, assuming that FT3 is measured in pg/ml, it is still just BARELY in the reference range.
Also, studies have shown that a change of thyroid hormone resulting in a FT4 reference range discrepency of even so little as 0.1 has been shown to have an enormous impact on symptoms experienced by the person being treated.
I hope very much that they get you to a better place quickly.


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## nadia105 (Jul 16, 2003)

How important is the TSH beign less than 2 during pg? Mine was 2.05 right before I got pg (literally a couple days before implantation as it turned out) and was 3.65 5 weeks later. My mw wanted to retest at 12 weeks (about a week and half from now), should I go in and push for the test earlier? I have been feeling awful, but I was having a lot of hypo symptoms (exhaustion, weight gain, etc) when I got the 2.05 number too.

This is all so confusing!


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nadia105* 
How important is the TSH beign less than 2 during pg? Mine was 2.05 right before I got pg (literally a couple days before implantation as it turned out) and was 3.65 5 weeks later. My mw wanted to retest at 12 weeks (about a week and half from now), should I go in and push for the test earlier? I have been feeling awful, but I was having a lot of hypo symptoms (exhaustion, weight gain, etc) when I got the 2.05 number too.

This is all so confusing!

3.65 is above the current recommendation of 3.5 for outside of pregnancy even, so I would press for an increase in medication.
It's important to remember that, generally speaking, the only thing that TSH is good for is diagnosis (and even then is not the be all and end all).


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## nadia105 (Jul 16, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
3.65 is above the current recommendation of 3.5 for outside of pregnancy even, so I would press for an increase in medication.
It's important to remember that, generally speaking, the only thing that TSH is good for is diagnosis (and even then is not the be all and end all).

Thanks! Having numbers to go in with always help, instead of 'I think it's a little higher than it should be even though it's within the old under 5 guidelines...'.

My mw is hypo too, so I am hoping it won't be hard to get her to up the medicine. I can also talk to my regular doc if I need to.


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## nadia105 (Jul 16, 2003)

Got retested yesterday and TSH was down to 2.33. My mw had prescribed an inc in my meds from 50mcg to 75 mcg, but she is going to have me alternate between the two, trying to lower it some but not too much.

It's hard to believe that it went back down, i feel like complete crap. I'm cold so much, like the bone chilling can't get warm cold sometimes. I'm thinking checking out the t3/t4 numbers next draw would be a good idea? There has to be something to explain this, right?


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## mamabeth (Jul 7, 2003)

Hi there.

Just joining the thread because I have a feeling I will have lots of questions for you mamas in a week or so!

My massage therapist found a nodule on my neck, and long story short, I had a biopsy on Monday (FNA). It SUCKED....I was told "oh no big deal, you'll have time to shop before you pick your kids up," and then when I was done I was dizzy and in a lot of pain. No results yet, but I have a follow up appointment on Monday. All I know now is that all my bloodwork, including a regular thyroid panel beyond the CBC, was "normal." I have the CBC numbers but not the thyroid numbers yet, will get them on Monday.

I have had some symptoms but nothing major, other than the giant lump on my neck (3cm and a couple smaller ones). Some depression, but I'm prone to some, weight gain (7 lbs or so, even though I'm training for a marathon and eat pretty well), and my nails will not grow, keep splitting and peeling. Weird stuff like that.

Anyway, I am lurking along til I have specific questions but am glad for the support of some MDC mamas.


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## meg-momto2 (Apr 23, 2007)

hi everyone, i've been directed to this thread after getting my blood work results back. i'm not entirely sure where to start. long story short, i'm gluten in tolerant as are both my kids. i've been gluten free since early March and feeling wonderful except my swollen neck and face which really started to show after some dental work in June. i'll spare you my horrible luck with doctors and just say i saw a new primary doctor on Monday who immediately ran blood work with a full thyroid panel and i have a soft tissue CT scan set for Monday morning. my blood work came back today. my thyroid numbers are TSH 2.23, T3 1.11 and FreeT4 1.15 with a high thyroglobulin antibody count. she didn't give me the number but said she'll be sending me to another specialist once my scan results come back.

i know i need more iodine in my diet after doing the patch test on my stomach. it was nearly gone after 24 hours. i haven't been taking any supplements since going gluten free but will start once i find out what exactly is going on. if anyone has any advice i'm very open to it. i'd prefer to do thing naturally but with the condition my face and neck are in i may try medication first.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

I have been feeling better eating 2 brazil nuts a day and adding the B12 but I wanted to see my doctor again to let her know what I have done and that I still feel there is a thyroid issue at the bottom of this soup of blood results and my physical state. I'm thinking specifically about elevated cholesterol and tiredness.

My GP has gone on maternity leave and I saw a new doctor who listened a lot and said "You really want to see an endocrinologist don't you?" then "But I can't refer you with these numbers" My TSH is now 1.9 and she disregarded by t3 and t4 results.

So then she says "What about if you take and anti-depressant for a while?" She thinks that if she can rule out that my symptoms are a physical manifestation of a psychological difficulty then I will be more likely to get an appointment with the endo.

So here I am with a box of Celexa not knowing what to do. I don't understand why it is easier to give me this than thyroxine?

My gut says it's not in my head and that I don't think any potential side effects are worth it because I don't think it will help. I also have no idea what effects this drug might have on my head if I am, as I believe, not depressed. I am unwilling to submit to 'doctor' games and put myself through something potentially disruptive just to prove a negative.

On the other hand, if I don't take them I have hit a dead end wrt to getting a solution unless I use a private health care provider and get a referral from them to a private specialist which would be very expensive as we don't have private healthcare insurance.


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## Aimelet (May 19, 2008)

I haven't been on here much since I had my daughter, but I thought this would be a great place to get more info on my new thyroid issues! I have skimmed through the thread and will hopefully be able to read more of it tomorrow, I was just wondering if you all could help me understand my lab numbers, are my antithyroid number ridiculously high? Or, just rather high? I do plan on buying some Brazil nuts tomorrow!

I was just diagnosed with Hashimoto's. I am on 75 micograms of Synthroid, which was just upped after 6 weeks on 50. 50 micrograms helped for about 2 weeks, then things slowly got worse till I was almost unable to function -- terrible carpel tunnel, could hardly care for my daughter during the day, etc.

Antithyroid peroxidase >600 range 0-34

Antithyroglobulin 3384 range 0-115

TSH 12.04 range .27-4,2

Free T4 1.07 range .9-1.9

Also, I am still seeing my family doctor, is there a really reason I should go to an endo? And are there any other test I should ask for? What else should I do?

Thanks!


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

I just Googled "ridiculously high antithyroid antibodies" and didn't get anything helpful.







All I can say is that mine are actually higher than what you've posted. Not that that's reassuring or anything just...







I have the same question though I haven't voiced it like that. If you happen to find an answer, do please tell me.








All your last questions are also good ones that I can't answer. Since I'm being a smart-butt, I figured that I might as well throw a







I have no idea! in about those as well. (Part of that might be fried-sick-brain, but I'm sorry nonetheless.. I will try to review this in a few days if no one else has answered. Hopefully a fully functioning brain- as if I'll ever have one of those







- will be more capable of presenting an answer.)


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## babygirlie (Jun 4, 2009)

Free T3 might help you in deciding what is going on with your body. It could be Cytomel or T3 would help you better than the straight T4 you are taking.

If you continue to not feel well I would ask for T3 or "naturaL" thyroid such as Armour or west thyroid or generic thyroid. it contains all of the T's and some people do much better on it.

How the body works.. TSH is the message your pituitary gland puts out, not your actual thyroid readings. It tells your thyroid what's circulating in your body and to make more or less or same. You then convert T4 to T3 which is what you actually use. If you are unable to convert T4 to T4 then synthroid will do nothing since it's the T3 your body actually uses.

I was shakey and sick on synthroid. I am on armour. I must say the new formulation isn't making me feel as good though







Someone got me to sneak in some levo (same as synthroid.. man made T4) so I take it to make them feel better but now there's so much confusion at the pharmacy and dr offices why I take both. Some doctors are very anti natural thyroid for some reason (huge profits with synthetics) so be aware of that.


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## babygirlie (Jun 4, 2009)

I don't think the numbers matter much. You have Hashimotos obviously and you need to be on medication. Both my numbers were around 600 and I have hashis. I feel like CRAP at anything over a tsh of .5. The doctor should treat you as how YOU FEEL not your numbers.


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

i am feeling like I am super hypo and have been since the summer. I just got some blood work done and am anxious for the results. I have orthostatic hypotension, my hair has all fallen out and my ankles are swollen.









Does being hypo affect your cognitions? I feel so spacey and am doing things that don't make sense, ie putting stuff in the frig that belongs in the cabinet. Additionally, I've been having myoclonic tics. I don't know if it is related but it scares the crap out of me *sigh*

I am so frustrated that after 4 years my doctors don't listen and can't seeem to manage my symptoms better. I have an appt with an endo in two weeks though I'm not holding out much hope for her being open to trying different meds (currently taking 137mcg synthyroid)


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
i am feeling like I am super hypo and have been since the summer. I just got some blood work done and am anxious for the results. I have orthostatic hypotension, my hair has all fallen out and my ankles are swollen.









Does being hypo affect your cognitions? I feel so spacey and am doing things that don't make sense, ie putting stuff in the frig that belongs in the cabinet. Additionally, I've been having myoclonic tics. I don't know if it is related but it scares the crap out of me *sigh*

I am so frustrated that after 4 years my doctors don't listen and can't seeem to manage my symptoms better. I have an appt with an endo in two weeks though I'm not holding out much hope for her being open to trying different meds (currently taking 137mcg synthyroid)

That is all stuff that did or has happened to me. However, I have suspicions that I may have "mild" type II Hashimoto's Encephalopathy which was misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder (unresponsive to treatment). I'm trying to figure out my best options for treatment. Treatment for this is usually high-dose steroids, though I'm wondering if low dose naltrexone would be helpful.


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
That is all stuff that did or has happened to me. However, I have suspicions that I may have "mild" type II Hashimoto's Encephalopathy which was misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder (unresponsive to treatment). I'm trying to figure out my best options for treatment. Treatment for this is usually high-dose steroids, though I'm wondering if low dose naltrexone would be helpful.


Did you have the myoclonic stuff too??
Thanks for the link...going to read now.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
Did you have the myoclonic stuff too??
Thanks for the link...going to read now.

yes, my doctors have all shrugged it off
thay've all said "some amount of tics is normal for any person" basically. it's not effecting daily living so they don't care


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
yes, my doctors have all shrugged it off
thay've all said "some amount of tics is normal for any person" basically. it's not effecting daily living so they don't care

I am freaking out because I have so many of the symptoms....a lot of them.
Can you have this in the absence of a thyroid? No one has ever mentioned hashi to me before. I don't know if I've had an antibody test ever. I had my thyroid removed four years ago but never felt quite right with the synthroid. I am so concerned that my docs have missed this.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
I am freaking out because I have so many of the symptoms....a lot of them.
Can you have this in the absence of a thyroid? No one has ever mentioned hashi to me before. I don't know if I've had an antibody test ever. I had my thyroid removed four years ago but never felt quite right with the synthroid. I am so concerned that my docs have missed this.

I'm not sure. I just joined the forum where they're discussing all things HE. It looks like there are some people trying LDN, but I haven't read those discussions yet.
I'm sorry, did you have thyroid cancer? I've seen studies showing that thyroid antibodies have a correlated increase of incidence in thyroid and breast cancers... (Trust me, not the info I want either.







)
eta: and







too. I tend to be a little more self-centered than usual when I'm sick. I remember freaking out when I first read about HE as well.


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
I'm not sure. I just joined the forum where they're discussing all things HE. It looks like there are some people trying LDN, but I haven't read those discussions yet.
I'm sorry, did you have thyroid cancer? I've seen studies showing that thyroid antibodies have a correlated increase of incidence in thyroid and breast cancers... (Trust me, not the info I want either.







)
eta: and







too. I tend to be a little more self-centered than usual when I'm sick. I remember freaking out when I first read about HE as well.

I'm trying not to freak out until I see my doc. I didn't have thyroid cancer just a huge goiter. I just have so many of the symptoms of HE that is really frightening.

Did your myoclonus get better? Are you on any treatment now for the myoclonus or HE? I remember when I first had an episode of myoclonus. My doc said it was stress and it did get better for over a year. It has returned with a vengeance. My hair seems to be slowing coming back but I still have to wear a wig.


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## mediumcrunch (Dec 10, 2009)

Did anyone ever tell you WHY you had a huge goiter?

My daughter has hashi's (dx'd at 8) as do I, and so did my grandmother. My daughter was aymptomatic aside from a goiter. Her antibodies were so high that they went of the labs scale and her TSH was in the 70's. Despite medication she still has the goiter and probably always will-she is 17 now.
My mother has been symptomatic for well over a decade and her TSH is just starting to get to the point someone will give her meds. HUGE EYEROLL.

A woman presents with ALL the symptoms of thyroid disease. Her mother, her daughter and her granddaughter ALL have thyroid disease.
Her labs fall (barely) WNL so no one will treat her.







:


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
I'm trying not to freak out until I see my doc. I didn't have thyroid cancer just a huge goiter. I just have so many of the symptoms of HE that is really frightening.

Did your myoclonus get better? Are you on any treatment now for the myoclonus or HE? I remember when I first had an episode of myoclonus. My doc said it was stress and it did get better for over a year. It has returned with a vengeance. My hair seems to be slowing coming back but I still have to wear a wig.









I should clarify that I have never lost all of my hair. I'm sorry that you have.
It did get better once I went on thyroid treatment, though I was still having occasional tics until I went on an Adrenal glandular. I am not on treatment for either.
My other symptoms are intermittent, I suspect waxing and waning with abs, but there are entire periods of time that I just don't remember (if you ask ANYone who knows me, they know this isn't like me at all.. I used to have a stellar memory and could recall entire conversations I'd had from 20 years ago), I have periods of time where I can't recall words, can't follow conversations, can't read, etc. My doctors call it "brain fog" but, having read the symptoms of HE and combined with my previous "diagnosis" of bipolar, the aphasia I also experience, the disorientation, the confusion, the dementia... I don't think they're right. And looking back on my family history, these are things which my mother's mother also experienced and complained of but no one took her seriously and shrugged it off as her "aging" until she was put in an Elder's home and drugged so they could keep her in a wheelchair (because she fell over every time she tried to walk).








Anyway... I hope that you find the help you need. You might want to check out the HE forums as well (there's a link on that page).


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

This is so weird. I've been hypo since I was 10, and I've been pregnant twice, each time my meds were increased during pregnancy.

Right before I became pregnant, I had my thyroid tested and they upped my meds to 5gr. My prenatal labds showed I was hyper at .01, so my OB dialed back my Armour to 3gr.

I'm now 13 wks and they just retested and my level was .0305 .... still hyper. So he told me to stop taking the Armour completely.

I'm really nervous about this as I've been on the meds for 20 years and with my previous pregnancies they've had to up the meds each time. So to completely stop them freaks me out. We're going to retest in 6 weeks, but I'm really worried.

I've never been good at picking up symptoms, but hope that it becomes glaringly obvious if I suddenly go hypo before the 6 weeks is up.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

NO NO NO!

I'm so frustrated! This could be dangerous for your pregnancy if your body does not respond by upping your thyroid hormone production naturally!

A low TSH without hyper symptoms just means you are getting adequate thyroid hormone externally. It means your TSH doesn't need to be stimulated because you are taking enough to supply your body. Your symptoms should be your guide. It DOES NOT mean you are hyper.

How were you dx hypo?

Did you have Hashi's?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *purplegirl* 
i am feeling like I am super hypo and have been since the summer. I just got some blood work done and am anxious for the results. I have orthostatic hypotension, my hair has all fallen out and my ankles are swollen.









Does being hypo affect your cognitions? I feel so spacey and am doing things that don't make sense, ie putting stuff in the frig that belongs in the cabinet. Additionally, I've been having myoclonic tics. I don't know if it is related but it scares the crap out of me *sigh*

I am so frustrated that after 4 years my doctors don't listen and can't seeem to manage my symptoms better. I have an appt with an endo in two weeks though I'm not holding out much hope for her being open to trying different meds (currently taking 137mcg synthyroid)

Tics are connected to thyroid function, see Mark Starr's book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/097...SIN=0975262408

Yes most definitely re: hair loss and spaciness/brain fog those are common. Also with respect to hair loss gluten intolerance is highly correlated.

If you don't have a thyroid, low thyroid hormone is the culprit. I would sincerely recommend reading about natural thyroid hormone in Starr's book and at STTM www.stopthethyroidmadness.com. Synthroid is crap.

I would look for a doc that prescribes Armour at their website locator. Reading about drawbacks of Armour too at STTM usually a doctor that px's it will be aware of current issue with cellulose and be more open to compounding or other natural thyroid replacement than an endo who uses synthetic T4 only Synthroid.

Also if you do not have a thyroid you are not controlling your calcium well the thyroid cannot be producing calcitonin as well. I think it is ridiculous that mainstream endos do not realize this and px T4 only! Synthroid use is correlated with osteoporosis.

The Broda Barnes Foundation is also another good source of doctors who treat to symptoms using whole natural thyroid hormone replacement and not to lab tests.








today! not at you mamas!







just how messed up this whole thyroid treatment is today.


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
NO NO NO!

I'm so frustrated! This could be dangerous for your pregnancy if your body does not respond by upping your thyroid hormone production naturally!

A low TSH without hyper symptoms just means you are getting adequate thyroid hormone externally. It means your TSH doesn't need to be stimulated because you are taking enough to supply your body. Your symptoms should be your guide. It DOES NOT mean you are hyper.

How were you dx hypo?

Did you have Hashi's?

I am worried about the baby... I don't know if I should go against his advice and still take a smaller dose, or what. I've never had this problem before, so it's hard to know what to trust when your baby's health is on the line.

I was 10. I think it was just routine blood work, maybe my parents had concerns because I'd always been chubby. It's hereditary. My grandmother and my cousin and I are all genetic clones. Not Hashi's.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Well all I can say from what I know, I would be taking the original dose.

An OB is also not an endo. What would your endo (if you have one) say if you asked him/her whether you are considered hypo by blood only, not symptoms? And about the reason I previously posted for the low TSH? A low TSH if you are treated with exogenous thyroid hormone is different than a low TSH naturally.

There might be some information on this and pregnancy at Mary Shomon's About.Thyroid.com website.


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

I've been to endos before and they did nothing more than the TSH. Not to mention they wouldn't even look at my PCOS / Insulin Resistance. So I haven't been back. My regular doctor did more for my thyroid than my endo.

I have thought about getting a second opinion and finding another endo, but I wouldn't be able to get an appointment for months, which won't help me in this situation.

If I've been on meds for 20 years, how are they going to know where my TSH is normally? They can only tell where my numbers are based on the dose I'm already on. If my blood is showing hyper, then the baby is being exposed to hyper / excess thyroid hormone as well.

I don't know for sure what symptoms are from thyroid, pregnancy, or diabetes. I can't sleep for long, I am restless and revved up to go, I'm hungry all the time, and have lost 20lbs in the past four months. Could be a change in diet, or new meds, or thyroid. I don't know. I don't want to risk being too hyper or too hypo, and all I can really go on is what my bloodwork says.


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

Ok, I think I understand what you are saying - takes me some time to process things.

I wasn't aware that Armour suppressed your TSH numbers. Which actually makes a lot of sense since I was on compounded thyroid before Armour was back in stock...

I am still waiting for a call to see what all my levels were, so I can see if my T4 is within normal range, then the current dose would be right.

However, how do you tell your doctor they are wrong? LOL


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

All thyroid meds suppress your TSH. TSH is produced in the body to stimulate the thyroid gland to produce more thyroid hormone. If you have enough circulating in the blood, the thyroid gland is not stimulated.

Yes, you do have hyper symptoms. So dropping down makes sense for you then. BUT something's going on. Pregnancy does change the immune system. It might make sense to run Hashi's/Graves antibody testing.

Your symptoms didn't go away when you dropped down?

You got symptoms when you changed from compounded when you had been on Armour for years? Armour is having problems with the cellulose filler right now, making it less potent.

Yes, your baby would only be exposed to hyper thyroid if your T4 and T3 numbers are high, not your TSH being low.

PCOS/Insulin resistance is correlated with thyroid problems. I have also read about magnesium deficiency causes insulin resistance as well in Carolyn Dean's book.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/034...SIN=034549458X

and I have noticed that high doses of magnesium (baths, foot soaks, transdermal oil/gel... I didn't do well on oral) greatly helps my blood sugar issues as well. I really found that out recently when I stopped! Hello hypoglycemia again!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Oh and how do you tell your doctor they are wrong? Well if it's a relationship worth preserving just research the heck outta it, ask tons of questions and ask for more tests, that is what I do.


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

I was thinking that TSH showed up lower with Armour than with Synthroid, but after more thinking... if you're basing it on how you feel, and you feel better when your T3/T4 are in normal range, that means your TSH usually shows up lower - right? I'm not good with the medical stuff...LOL

I was on Synthroid until about 5 years ago, when my GP tested my T3/T4 and the T3 was low, so my GP switched me to Armour. I was on that until Armour disappeared, then I had a couple months of NatureThyroid before that was gone, so it was then compounded. I've been back on Armour for 4-5 months now.

I didn't notice any symptoms at first after going from compounded to Armour, but the jump in dosage was so much (from 3gr to 5gr). I went from hypo on compounded to hyper on Armour. I think I'm confusing myself even more...

When I dropped back down to 3gr, the symptoms seemed to go away, but now it seems like they are just milder, though they are more noticeable each day. On the 5gr I was hot, sweating, shaking, jittery, hard time sleeping, waking up multiple times a night... On the 3gr, I can't sleep for long and I feel a little jumpy/anxious/irritable and revved up - everything seems really bright and clear. I'm also more nauseous, though I didn't have morning sickness the first trimester...this has just developed in the past week or so and it more of an all day thing.

The reason I went to the endo in the first place was to see how all of this connected. The PCOS/IR is hereditary as well. Me and my cousin are spitting images of my grandmother. But as I said, she didn't even want to look at it. I guess as long as it wasn't diabetes at that point, she didn't care.

About 3-4 years ago I developed monthly migraines. They gave me the standard meds, but after one dose I swore I wouldn't take it again. So the next month I took a calcium / magnesium supplement and they went away. I haven't been taking the supplement for over a year and they haven't come back.

I've tried to learn more about my thyroid issues, but end up getting confused. I guess it's a good thing I didn't want to be a doctor. LOL

ANd yes, it is worth preserving. It's nice to have a doctor who wants to work with me, not just tell me what to do. He's always willing to listen and we talk everything through. First time I've had a doc call me personally on a regular basis too. I just feel like I've been second guessing everything he's tried to do in the past 13 weeks and don't want him to get sick of me. LOL I haven't thought to look into Hashi's or Graves, it just didn't seem that the symptoms fit. But I can ask.


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## purplegirl (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Tics are connected to thyroid function, see Mark Starr's book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/097...SIN=0975262408

Yes most definitely re: hair loss and spaciness/brain fog those are common. Also with respect to hair loss gluten intolerance is highly correlated.

If you don't have a thyroid, low thyroid hormone is the culprit. I would sincerely recommend reading about natural thyroid hormone in Starr's book and at STTM www.stopthethyroidmadness.com. Synthroid is crap.

I would look for a doc that prescribes Armour at their website locator. Reading about drawbacks of Armour too at STTM usually a doctor that px's it will be aware of current issue with cellulose and be more open to compounding or other natural thyroid replacement than an endo who uses synthetic T4 only Synthroid.

Also if you do not have a thyroid you are not controlling your calcium well the thyroid cannot be producing calcitonin as well. I think it is ridiculous that mainstream endos do not realize this and px T4 only! Synthroid use is correlated with osteoporosis.

The Broda Barnes Foundation is also another good source of doctors who treat to symptoms using whole natural thyroid hormone replacement and not to lab tests.








today! not at you mamas!







just how messed up this whole thyroid treatment is today.


Thank you, Thank you! I'm so frustrated and at times feel hopeless. I will most definitely check the resources you listed and find a doc who will prescribe Armour. I see my endo next week and damned if I'm not going to ask her. I have no thyroid and feel like synthroid is just not hitting it for me.


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

Interestingly enough... I took just the 1gr last night (until I can get the exact numbers of my results and make a more informed decision) - and for the first time my fasting blood sugar was under 90.

I'd read that high levels of thyroid hormone can cause your blood sugar to rise, and asked my OB last visit if this could be the problem, but he didn't seem to think it was.

Looks like I was right though... so now I have to decide if this means I was really hyper? LOL I went to bed at 11:30 last night, woke up at 4:45 this morning, unable to get back to sleep, and I am so revved up already. I hadn't even had my morning caffeine and was talking a mile a minute to my neighbor. So - maybe doc is right and I'm hyper....


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yes it seems to me that those would be hyper symptoms.

I know thyroid influences blood sugar for sure but don't know the details of it.

I wish some autoimmune person would step in and give their knowledge of pregnancy switching one from hypo to hyper. As far as I know, this is a classic Hashimoto's symptom.


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

I've also read that taking Armour at night can cause you to have insomnia. That the T3 can cause that and for you to feel hyped up. So now I'm confused again. I've emailed my OB and asked if free T3 / T4 were tested, and if not, can we do that before taking me off the meds completely. I also explained everything else.

I've also had what I consider extreme weight loss - 7lbs in one month while being pregnant seems like a lot to me (total is 20lbs in 4 months, and I'm 3 months pg). I can literally see myself melting away. I'm also hungry all the time, like stomach growling hunger, even though I'm eating every two hours.

I read a bit about Hashi's, but I didn't know switching from hypo to hyper was a symptom. I'll look into it more and ask my OB about it. If we retest for the T3 / T4, maybe we can do it for Hashimoto's too.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Yes it seems to me that those would be hyper symptoms.

I know thyroid influences blood sugar for sure but don't know the details of it.

I wish some autoimmune person would step in and give their knowledge of pregnancy switching one from hypo to hyper. As far as I know, this is a classic Hashimoto's symptom.

i think i might have gone hyper with ds2's pregnancy but wasn't being treated or monitored yet as i was dx'ed after that... i lost 35lbs in the first 5 mths and then struggled to gain
ive heard that the body may block the antibodies during pgcy causing an apparent remission


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aliah79* 
I've also read that taking Armour at night can cause you to have insomnia. That the T3 can cause that and for you to feel hyped up. So now I'm confused again. I've emailed my OB and asked if free T3 / T4 were tested, and if not, can we do that before taking me off the meds completely. I also explained everything else.

I've also had what I consider extreme weight loss - 7lbs in one month while being pregnant seems like a lot to me (total is 20lbs in 4 months, and I'm 3 months pg). I can literally see myself melting away. I'm also hungry all the time, like stomach growling hunger, even though I'm eating every two hours.

I read a bit about Hashi's, but I didn't know switching from hypo to hyper was a symptom. I'll look into it more and ask my OB about it. If we retest for the T3 / T4, maybe we can do it for Hashimoto's too.

Yes I'm sorry I missed that you took it at night... this is true, the T3 will keep you awake. I thought most people take earlier in day? Do you usually take at night?

Thanks JR


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

I started taking it at night around 6wks pg... that's also when my hyper symptoms started on the 5gr. Since you're not supposed to take around mealtime, night turned out the be the best time for me since I need to eat every two hours, and I eat shortly after I wake. It's also supposed to be absorbed by the body better overnight... I'm able to get to sleep no problem, but I wake up really early raring to go and can't get back to sleep.


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## tink79 (Jun 9, 2004)

Hey everyone. I have a couple of questions and hoped maybe someone here could answer them or give me some insight. For the past few years I've been really run down, blamed in on having 3 kiddos, anemia and a family history of fibromyalgia but don't have insurance so I only see the doc when I think I might be dying, then it's usually in the form of the ER. In any case, I went to the ER last year for constant tingling in my left arm and they did an MRI while I was there. The doc on call very dismissively said everything looked normal except that there were nodules on my thyroid. So I got home and googled thyroid nodules and it all seemed pretty benign so I didn't think too much about it. But lately I've begun to wonder if I might be hypo (have also put on a couple of stubborn pounds which I can't seem to get rid of no matter what exercise I do or what I eat). When I look at the symptoms list it's like it's written all about the way I've felt for the past few years. I've had a few different diagnoses in the past, PCOS, gestation diabetes and my peri said I probably have an unidentified autoimmune disease (meaning she didn't want to run a bunch of tests but here's a baby aspirin a day to see if this pregnancy succeeds after a couple of losses, and it did after that).

So my biggest question is, what would be the absolute cheapest route to take to get some blood work done and to see where my levels are? I can't just hop from doc to doc, it's not in the budget unless I want my kids to starve.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aliah79* 
I started taking it at night around 6wks pg... that's also when my hyper symptoms started on the 5gr. Since you're not supposed to take around mealtime, night turned out the be the best time for me since I need to eat every two hours, and I eat shortly after I wake. It's also supposed to be absorbed by the body better overnight... I'm able to get to sleep no problem, but I wake up really early raring to go and can't get back to sleep.

I had this problem when I tried taking it at night, as well.
The concern with taking it with food is that it doesn't get absorbed as well and that it binds with calcium and iron and becomes unavailable for use (as well as "robbing" your body of these nutrients). I take my medication after I've eaten as taking it prior to eating makes me vomit (which is then rather pointless).
I now take half of my dose in the morning with my breakfast and the other half at night before I go to sleep. This seems to prevent the early morning waking and gives me a feeling of energy in the morning without being "wired" and allows me to have energy through the majority of the day.


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## tink79 (Jun 9, 2004)

subbing.


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

Tink, I really don't know... I would say start with TSH, Free T3/T4... If you can find a more holistic doctor, they are more likely to do the tests without arguments. An Endo might help, but I had absolutely no luck with mine and it turned out to be a waste of time and money. Do you have insurance?


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

And back to my issues... Doc says FT4 is right on and completely normal. He asked if I'd ever been on synthroid.

I explained to him how TSH can be suppressed in patients already on thyroid support and that the best indicator is the FT4 level. Since that is normal, I would feel better staying on the 3gr. I had a few links with abstacts from studies, hopefully he won't roll his eyes LOL. I don't think he will - he's really cool.

I also said we could switch to Synthroid and see what my FT3 levels are and then add a supplement there if needed. The reason I switched to Armour is because my FT3 was low five years ago. I explained I've always felt better on a higher dose, but hypo on a normal dose.

We'll see where we go from there. I went back to taking 3gr AMA, since FT4 is normal on that dose. I want to be sure baby is safe until we figure everything out.


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## tink79 (Jun 9, 2004)

Aliah, nope no insurance and DD3 is having some health issues that I feel need to be taken care of before I can see a doc so it could be a while. Thanks for your suggestions.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aliah79* 
And back to my issues... Doc says FT4 is right on and completely normal. He asked if I'd ever been on synthroid.

I explained to him how TSH can be suppressed in patients already on thyroid support and that the best indicator is the FT4 level. Since that is normal, I would feel better staying on the 3gr. I had a few links with abstacts from studies, hopefully he won't roll his eyes LOL. I don't think he will - he's really cool.

I also said we could switch to Synthroid and see what my FT3 levels are and then add a supplement there if needed. The reason I switched to Armour is because my FT3 was low five years ago. I explained I've always felt better on a higher dose, but hypo on a normal dose.

We'll see where we go from there. I went back to taking 3gr AMA, since FT4 is normal on that dose. I want to be sure baby is safe until we figure everything out.

Are you supplementing selenium? it's been shown to help with T4-T3 conversion.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tink79* 
Hey everyone. I have a couple of questions and hoped maybe someone here could answer them or give me some insight. For the past few years I've been really run down, blamed in on having 3 kiddos, anemia and a family history of fibromyalgia but don't have insurance so I only see the doc when I think I might be dying, then it's usually in the form of the ER. In any case, I went to the ER last year for constant tingling in my left arm and they did an MRI while I was there. The doc on call very dismissively said everything looked normal except that there were nodules on my thyroid. So I got home and googled thyroid nodules and it all seemed pretty benign so I didn't think too much about it. But lately I've begun to wonder if I might be hypo (have also put on a couple of stubborn pounds which I can't seem to get rid of no matter what exercise I do or what I eat). When I look at the symptoms list it's like it's written all about the way I've felt for the past few years. I've had a few different diagnoses in the past, PCOS, gestation diabetes and my peri said I probably have an unidentified autoimmune disease (meaning she didn't want to run a bunch of tests but here's a baby aspirin a day to see if this pregnancy succeeds after a couple of losses, and it did after that).

So my biggest question is, what would be the absolute cheapest route to take to get some blood work done and to see where my levels are? I can't just hop from doc to doc, it's not in the budget unless I want my kids to starve.









There may be one of those "order your own" blood draw kits through the Canary Club or something similar for thyroid panel. I had mine ordered through my ND and/or my PCP.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Stop the Thyroid Madness website has recommended labs you can order tests through.

Here's what I cannot understand about Synthroid and other synthetic thyroid hormone... wouldn't it shut down your calcitonin production by the thyroid if the TSH is shut off and led to calcium problems? Does Armour contain calcitonin?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Stop the Thyroid Madness website has recommended labs you can order tests through.

Here's what I cannot understand about Synthroid and other synthetic thyroid hormone... wouldn't it shut down your calcitonin production by the thyroid if the TSH is shut off and led to calcium problems? Does Armour contain calcitonin?

... How is TSH tied to calcitonin production? I mean.. Yes, the thyroid produces it, but... Well...
The adrenals, for example, produce way more than one hormone, yes? If you were to supplement one of those hormones (let's say cortisol), does it shut off the production of all hormones from the adrenals? Why should that be the effect of supplementing one hormone which the thyroid produces?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Hmmm.... Well, from what I'm reading, calcitonin levels effect TSH levels (higher calcitonin suppresses TSH), but so far I'm seeing no indication of the reverse being true...

Hmm. Okay, there's one now.







That's really confusing.
I'll do more reading about it later.


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## Theloose (Aug 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Hmmm.... Well, from what I'm reading, calcitonin levels effect TSH levels (higher calcitonin suppresses TSH), but so far I'm seeing no indication of the reverse being true...

Hmm. Okay, there's one now.







That's really confusing.
I'll do more reading about it later.

calcium regulation issues related much? How about parathyroid hormone?


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
Are you supplementing selenium? it's been shown to help with T4-T3 conversion.

No, I tried looking through all the supplements I should be taking at one point and just got confused.

Plus I can't afford to take several good quality supplements on a regular basis. My Armour is around $40, plus my test strips, Glyburide is cheap, but it's still adds to it, prenatals, CLO.......ds has to have ergocalciferol, plus both boys need multi-vitamins... nevermind insurance costs and co-pays LOL...


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## aliah79 (Mar 29, 2005)

I thought I read that Armour does have calcitonin somewhere... can'tfind it again though.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whoMe* 
calcium regulation issues related much? How about parathyroid hormone?

They are. Calcitonin removes excess Ca from blood stream and stores it, and parathyroid increases it in blood by releasing from storage and bones.

My father has high parathyroid hormone... he has lost bone/teeth and has calcium deposits.


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## Theloose (Aug 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
They are. Calcitonin removes excess Ca from blood stream and stores it, and parathyroid increases it in blood by releasing from storage and bones.

My father has high parathyroid hormone... he has lost bone/teeth and has calcium deposits.

So busted thyroid - not enough calcitonin - high serum calcium levels - calcium regulation issues? If I had time for more than stealing moments at the computer, I'd so look up calcitonin regulation.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

They're still not running the labs I want. Still not running FT3, just TSH and FT4.

Anyway, not much reference but:
Last test (April):
TSH 3.26
FT4 0.81

This test (yesterday):
TSH 2.15
FT4 0.69

So TSH is lower but so is FT4?








I suppose that's moving in a positive direction but it certainly isn't where I want it to be. I hate that I'm going to have to phone to request an increase again.







I always am worried that there's going to be a confrontation at some point because of my last PCP.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

That's annoying JR! What is reference range for FT4, usually you want it in the upper range right? Do you still have symptoms? You are on how many grains now? Did they run antibodies, wouldn't that be important too?


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
That's annoying JR! What is reference range for FT4, usually you want it in the upper range right? Do you still have symptoms? You are on how many grains now? Did they run antibodies, wouldn't that be important too?

They only ran anti-Tgab in February. It was >1000 then.

Reference range is 0.61-1.27.
I take 1.5 grains daily.
I won't get into the long and pathetic list here, but chances are they won't be recognized as thyroid issues by anyone but Broda Barnes







.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Alright ladies... I'm back as I had some updated blood work done (despite not feel hypo symptomatic) since I was in the MD office for strep. I have a dx of hashi, so they want to keep on top of it.

Updated TSH (which is the only one they test me for) came back 8.6. Last Dec it was 9.5 so some decrease but not much.

Also I have lowish Vit D







at 28 (vs. 32), but I explained I wasn't taking the supplement since it was summer and I've been outside a good deal.

So I'm getting a slightly increased dose of Synthroid (125mcg)and I managed to talk my MD out of a crazy Vit D supplement in hopes to find something else to help support/elevate my vit d levels.

I've made changes to my diet by trying albeit slowly going GF and somewhat grain-free too and that has made the difference for my elbows and digestive issues. I take about 1-2 tbs of CO throughout the day with my coffee, and I've added (as I remember) to eat 2 brazil nuts a day for Se.

In going back a bit through the thread, I've found these 2 posts regarding additional supplementation, so if you were going to put together a plan of supplements, which ones would you do/recommend?

Also should I be pressing my MD (family practice) to get a recommendation to see and be evaluated by an Endocrinologist?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Lack of the following nutrients can cause an inability to convert T4 to T3 and thus cause hypothyrodism:

iodine
iron
selenium
zinc
vitamins A & D
B vitamins esp. B6 and B12
Magnesium defiency mimics symptoms of hypothyroidism.

Copper excess (common in veg*an diets) can cause hyperthyroidism and also low zinc.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
I like something for me personally called optizinc. I have hashi's and also consider myself hypo. I was reading on ithyroid.com that hypos tend to be low on zinc and hypers tend to be low on copper. The nice thing about optizinc is that it contains just a small amount of copper so that you do not throw yourself off balance. You might be able to have a naturopath test your saliva for heavy metals. I find ithyroid.com's supplement section to be very informative on what minerals and vitamins hypos and hypers need. He does say you need to consult your physician, but my physician is about as helpful as a monkey when it comes to supplements so bah!

I just read on ithyroid that if you have excess mercury in your system, you may need extra selenium, not to exceed 600mcg. I temporarily bumped my Se from 200 to 400mcg b/c I have been soooo tired and did get my amalgams out a year ago. I'm nervous to take too much Se, but I think 400 for a few weeks will be okay.

I am out of some of my vitamins including b complex and flavanoids to take with my C. Before I get back on my regimen, I am supposed to find out the lab results including tsh, t3, and t4 next week so I'm trying to hold off to see if my dr can help. If he can't, I guess I'll just try iodine on my own and get back on all the cofactors. I don't want to change too many things at one time. If a little bit more synthroid is what I need to be able to take better care of my family, I'm down with that. I like the idea of healing my thyroid naturally, but sometimes I'm not sure if that is possible for me. Maybe iodine is the missing link for me or maybe it is too late. I really don't care how I feel better...just as long as I do! If extra synthroid doesn't help me, I'm thinking of ordering the Iosol Iodine. It is a low dose so that way I can proceed slowly and keep an eye out for side effects.

TIA!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JacquelineR* 
They only ran anti-Tgab in February. It was >1000 then.

Reference range is 0.61-1.27.
I take 1.5 grains daily.
I won't get into the long and pathetic list here, but chances are they won't be recognized as thyroid issues by anyone but Broda Barnes







.









So clearly you need more hormone to shut off your body's production regardless of how "normal" the TSH is? Or does your current practitioner not think the antibody count should be treated?

eta: do I have that right... your TSH should be .01 so your body is not producing thyroid hormone, and therefore the antibody attack should stop?


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## peaches' mom (Sep 13, 2008)

Please help!!! I am making my way through this thread, and the various websites that have been suggested, but can't wait any longer to ask for your advice.Here is my situation (I'm sorry this is so long







):

Yesterday was my first appt with an endocrinologist. He is strongly medical model, not open to holistic care. (I am seeing my ND & acupuncturist for treatment, also started a gf diet, and am taking supplements - he basically rolled his eyes).









When diagnosed this past Sept, my TSH was 7.06, my free T4 & free T3 were on the low end of normal, and I tested positive for both thyroid antibodies. I was told I have subclinical hashimotos, although I was feeling very symptomatic (zero energy, brain fog, recent weight gain, etc). I have been on thyroxine (synthetic TSH) for the past month, haven't got my new blood results back as of yet. Also, ultrasound picked up at least one nodule that is suspicious and will be biopsied.

My endo thinks I should continue ttc as soon as my TSH is between 1-2 (I'm >35 and we've been ttc for awhile). He says that even if the nodule turns out to be cancer, we can treat postpartum. He described thyroid cancer as more of a nuisance than life threatening (?!!). I plan to wait until after the biopsy results (and if I'm clear, to go ahead ttc).

My questions are:
-how risky is pregnancy if I have thyroid antibodies? (assuming TSH is regulated)
-do thyroid antibodies tend to rise (as TSH does) in pregnancy? Is there any way to lower/control antibodies?
-in the case of cancer, can a person decline the radioactive iodine?
-should a woman begin taking extra synthroid while ttc, even before a positive HPT?
-do you have experience breastfeeding with hashis? How likely is it that I won't produce enough milk?
-Is there anything else to consider before ttc? (i.e. any other risks, issues I haven't thought of)?

TIA for your time reading this & for any input you can offer.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

ktg, from what I've seen, most endos aren't worth their weight in salt (though a good one is worth his weight in gold).
JaneS, My current practitioner (the most informed one I've found), doesn't have a clue.







She only ran the antibodies bc I asked for them and had to 'figure out' which antibodies to test (even though I asked for both and she only ran the one but whatever).
The issue is my FT4 is low and I' have no idea where my FT3 is.







And yes, thyroid function is supposed to be suppressed in order to stop the antibody production. Going GF would probably help too.







But I'll cross that bridge at another time. Right now, I just have too much on my plate to deal with that aspect of life (and yes, it would be easy what with DS1 on a GF diet and all but it still takes discipline which I don't have atm).

I can't really answer any of your questions, peaches' mom, except to say:
my last pregnancy was after I was dx'd Hashi's and, other than having HG, it was a perfectly "normal" pregnancy. I'm assuming that my antibodies were no better during pregnancy than before or now.
I'm assuming your doctor is going by TSH <10 for dx?







Is s/he aware the newest rec's are that anything above 2 be treated?















Sorry. Doctors annoy the vinegar out of me.
Antibodies: going gluten free, selenium, suppression of thyroid all decrease antibody counts
The only time I had problems with milk production is when my thyroid first tanked and I wasn't treated and had tsh of <100


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peaches' mom* 

My questions are:
-how risky is pregnancy if I have thyroid antibodies? (assuming TSH is regulated)
-do thyroid antibodies tend to rise (as TSH does) in pregnancy? Is there any way to lower/control antibodies?
-in the case of cancer, can a person decline the radioactive iodine?
-should a woman begin taking extra synthroid while ttc, even before a positive HPT?
-do you have experience breastfeeding with hashis? How likely is it that I won't produce enough milk?
-Is there anything else to consider before ttc? (i.e. any other risks, issues I haven't thought of)?

TIA for your time reading this & for any input you can offer.

I have no idea of antibodies but I assume it's risky to be pg with low thyroid hormone since its well known that effects baby's brain development.

Most nodules are not cancerous and are instead indicative of low iodine and Hashimoto's. Did you have your calcium and parathyroid levels tested? They can also be calcium deposits.

See alternative to radioactive iodine here:
http://www.naturalthyroidchoices.com/

I would not take synthroid, see here for desiccated thyroid info:
www.stopthethyroidmadness.com


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## nadia105 (Jul 16, 2003)

More random dosage questions here. I have had my TSH tested every 4 weeks b/c it hasn't really stabilized during this pg (I wasn't hypo during any of my others).

4 weeks ago, I was on 50 mcg Levo and TSH was 2.33. Prior to finding out that number, my mw had upped my dosage to 75 mcg b/c my previous TSH (4 weeks before) had been 3.5 or so.

When the number came back at 2.33, she told me to go every other day with the 50/75 and we'd check again in 4 weeks. THis week, TSH was 2.17. Does it seem right that it went down so little with the every other day increase in dosage? I think my mw would be fine with me going to straight 75 mcg, I'd like to try to get the number under 2 for once to see if I get any energy. The only reason she might not is b/c I haven't gained any weight at 14 weeks and she'd like to see at least a couple pounds by my next appt.

Sorry about hte novel, but is it worth pursuing the steady higher dosage? FWIW, I have rxs for both dosages, but I want to make sure this is a good idea!


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## peaches' mom (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks a lot, Jane, for your info. I really appreciate it.

Nadia - I can't offer any insight, but I wanted to send you







. I'll be interested in any advice you get.

Here is something I posted on the ttc board, but wanted to put it on this thread in case anyone can offer help....

Just got results from my labs after being on synthroid for 5 weeks. My TSH went from 7.06 to 2.6. At my appt last week, endo said he wants me in the 1-2 range before ttc. However, now that the results are back he seems to have changed his mind, says that my TSH is normal. I pressed him about his previous target (which also fits with everything I've read) but he just repeated, "your tsh is normal". (FWIW, I should also mention that he was completely dismissive that I have had any symptoms of hypothyroid at 7.06 - even though my symptoms have been textbook







)

What do you think, should I go ahead and ttc at this level? My gut tells me that we'll just continue to be unsuccessful (and get even more frustrated) if it isn't in the "ideal" range. I am >35 and feeling the time pressure already.

Isn't it "safer" to start a pregnancy at a lower tsh, given that we know most women's tsh goes up during the pregnancy? If I start out with a tsh of 1 there is more leeway, no?

If you have BTDT, what did you do about your synthroid dose during pregnancy? Were you proactive in upping the dose? Or did you wait and see? What was your experience?

thanks in advance for any insight you can offer me. Your advice is invaluable, especially given that I can't rely on my hcp!









jen


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Ooops sorry I responded in TTC post, I didn't recognize you. I would run to desiccated thyroid and a new dr. at this point given you've had infertility issues... which is a classic low thyroid symptom.


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## peaches' mom (Sep 13, 2008)

thanks so much (again), Jane. I agree I need to find a new doc, shall press my PCP for a new referral (have no idea if this is even possible and what the wait time may be).

I am struggling with the Armour decision because, although I am very naturally minded, I have been vegan for most of my life. I need to get some really good info about it. Have read a bit from pro-armour sources, but I admit most of my info comes from medical care providers. They are all pushing me toward synthetic claiming that the natural dessicated is too hard to standardize. I do realize they are brainwashed but I guess it has made my vegan dilemma easier.







I need to revisit it.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Ooops sorry I responded in TTC post, I didn't recognize you. I would run to desiccated thyroid and a new dr. at this point given you've had infertility issues... which is a classic low thyroid symptom.










I was proactive in increasing my dose during pregnancy, yes.


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## nadia105 (Jul 16, 2003)

I think i will call Monday and see if I can okay the dose with my mw.

I wouldn't push it, but I am still SOOOOOO tired (I do have a screwy work schedule and ge tup at 3am, but I go to bed by 8) and I have several days a week where I get so cold that I cannot warm up despite layers and blankets. If I go to sleep, I will eventually wake up toasty warm, but I hate being that cold.

I honestly haven't felt good since about 2 months into starting meds (a year ago). After the baby is born my mw wants to check antibodies -- that would be checking for Hashis, right?


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## peaches' mom (Sep 13, 2008)

Just thought of another question - has anyone tried going *gluten free* and found any impact (or not) on their thyroid labs?


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## peaches' mom (Sep 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nadia105* 
I honestly haven't felt good since about 2 months into starting meds (a year ago). After the baby is born my mw wants to check antibodies -- that would be checking for Hashis, right?

Yes, as I understand it, antibodies confirm hashis.


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## herenow2 (Jul 5, 2007)

*Quick question: Would iodine supplementation alter a thyroid blood test?*
I am going to a doctor in a couple weeks to discuss some of my symptoms (brain fog, short term memory issues, low energy, dry skin...) but given all my recent reading, I really want to try supplementing iodine. Just wondering if that would interfere with the test results and perhaps not give the full picture of what's going on? Should I just wait to start taking iodine or does it not matter? Thanks!


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

I can't answer your question, here2now. All I can say is that increasing my iodine caused my thyroid to crash and burn (again). But I do have confirmed Hashi's so that may not be so for others w/o it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peaches' mom* 
Just thought of another question - has anyone tried going *gluten free* and found any impact (or not) on their thyroid labs?

yes and yes, which is why I keep going on about how I know I should be gf.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peaches' mom* 
Yes, as I understand it, antibodies confirm hashis.

yes, elevated antibodies confirms Hashi's (or Graves). Because the immune response is somewhat suppressed by pregnancy, there are sometimes negative results if the test is performed then


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

JR,
has there been any research on multiple m/c and Hashi's? There should be. I want to have enough money to fund my own research (and publicize the heck out of it!!!!)


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## erratum (May 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *herenow2* 
*Quick question: Would iodine supplementation alter a thyroid blood test?*
I am going to a doctor in a couple weeks to discuss some of my symptoms (brain fog, short term memory issues, low energy, dry skin...) but given all my recent reading, I really want to try supplementing iodine. Just wondering if that would interfere with the test results and perhaps not give the full picture of what's going on? Should I just wait to start taking iodine or does it not matter? Thanks!

Yes, from what I understand (and have experienced) Iodine can raise your TSH for up to six months, but your free t-4 and free t-3 should be in normal range. My TSH was super high after first starting iodine (20-25!) I've been on 50mg of iodine for about 8 months and have just taken my first "post-six-months" test. I haven't received the results back yet.


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## peaches' mom (Sep 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *erratum* 
Yes, from what I understand (and have experienced) Iodine can raise your TSH for up to six months, but your free t-4 and free t-3 should be in normal range. My TSH was super high after first starting iodine (20-25!) I've been on 50mg of iodine for about 8 months and have just taken my first "post-six-months" test. I haven't received the results back yet.

Erratum - Can you explain more about your iodine supp? I'm unclear, are you still taking 50 mg or does the "post-six-months" refer to after ending this supp?
I am very interested to learn more. I suspect that I overdosed on iodine, which led to my hypo diagnosis. I was taking a high dose of maca (which I have recently learned is very rich in iodine) in the months preceding my diagnosis.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
JR,
has there been any research on multiple m/c and Hashi's? There should be. I want to have enough money to fund my own research (and publicize the heck out of it!!!!)

you'd think there would be, wouldn't you?
I haven't looked for it specifically, so I'm not certain. My 3 miscarriages were all pre-diagnosis, as were 2 of my children, and 2 of my m/c were during periods of extreme stress (although so was DS2's pregnancy)... Hmm.


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## lil_miss_understood (Jul 19, 2006)

This suggests that the studies have been inconclusive (unsurprisingly, considering my recent readings on how scientific studies are conducted







). The thyroid About.com site by Mary Shomon, however, states that there is a clear correlation between increased anti-thyroid abs and m/c.


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## nurturebaby (Jul 8, 2008)

This has probably been discussed already, but there are so many pages here!

Wondering if anyone has a recommendation for a thyroid support supplement. My doc recommended I start taking one along with extra iodine in the form of some more seaweed in my diet. She said to try and find a supplement with thyronine? I think that's what she said.

I was thinking either Dr. Ron's thyroid/liver support or nutri-meds thyroid?

I have hashimoto's and my numbers are still within 'normal' but doc is worried because my tsh doubled since last test a few months back. I'm also having hypo symptoms and want to try to tackle it before it gets to the point of needing meds.


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## Barcino (Aug 25, 2004)

Hi ladies! I am hypothyroid. I got diagnosed after pregnancy but it never went away. I actually think I started hyper during my pregnancy and it swang to hypo by the time we discovered it.

I had not been doing a great job taking care of it in the last year or so - having two kids instead of one totally threw me off I guess! Anyway I have not been super consistent with taking my synthroid like I should and I have been going too long between checks and started feeling funky. Went to get bloodwork done thinking I was anemic and my TSH was up to 3.05. NO wonder I felt bad - I am usually fine when I am around 1. Anyway another thing that came off was my cholesterol which was very low. Total was 113 has def dropped from the last test I had done in 2007. The doctor was not concerned about this but I know this is not a good thing. Anyway... Anybody else with hypo and LOW cholesterol problems? My vitamin D was also deficient at 30 although the doctor said it was fine because it was at the very bottom of the range. I think this time my Free t3 was low. They gave it to me in a new unit 2.7 range was 2.3-4.2 So I think it is 270. Does this mean I am now not converting? I have never had an issue with this before. I have been out of the loop so long about all this that I feel like I have to re-educate myself.

I have been working out and eating better over the last two years and I have lost 40 lbs with much better eating and consistent excercise (cardio and streght training with a trainer) I thought that it would mean everything was better but looks like everything is just a mess. I am so frustrated.

Anyway any input on the low cholesterol, low vitamin D,

I have started supplementing my vitamin D3 - they upped my synthroid to 100 from 75 and I am upping healthy fats and taking nordic natural ultimate omega as well. I need to find another doctor that will look at the rest of my hormones I think everything is just upside down.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Swing hypo and hyper sounds autoimmune to me, Barcino.

I'd have the 3 antibodies tests recommended at Stop the Thyroid Madness' website. I think 30 is low for D, it should be above 50. Yes conversion could indeed be an issue if you are on Synthroid and there are a number of things that effect conversion. And the fact that Synthroid might not be the best med for you. Are you supp'ing with selenium?


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## Barcino (Aug 25, 2004)

They did test me for autoinmmune a couple years back and it didnt show it. I wonder if I should retest?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Nuturebaby,

If you have Hashi's you need to be very careful about iodine and other thyroid support... it sound to me that your doctor is not up on the research and the supplements. I would find an iodine literate practitioner listed at Breast Cancer Choices website. I would not eat seaweed or take kelp supplements at all because they can be contaminated, see THE Iodine Thread for more info.

Are you taking selenium?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I would and there is more than one test to check.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

So is this a totally dead thread now?

Because I'd love for it to start up again.


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## mamabeth (Jul 7, 2003)

Me too. I am minus half a thyroid as of December 2010 with Hashimoto's and have lots of questions. It is such a frustrating disorder! Should we start a new thread, perhaps?


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## abeliamama (Feb 5, 2007)

Hi! I'm new to the thyroid madness...Had a panic attack(?) at a convention which landed me in the emergency room, then to regular doc for blood tests. Got an thyroid ultrasound and have nodules. TSH came up low so I am hyperthyroid.

A little background...I have been through a rough few years with my husband battling addiction and my business hanging on by a thread. DH is clean now (yea!) and things are looking up. Shortly after the panic attack and blood tests, I started started therapy, got on an anti depressant and got my frickin' IUD removed.

My symptoms are: Panic, anxiety, weight loss (could be IUD removal), itchiness, blurry vision (could be being 44 years old), light headedness, no memory(could be SSRI), hot flashes, then cold, neck pain, headaches and racing heart.

Here are my test results:

TSH: .089

T3 total: 138

T4 free: 1.8

Thyroid antibody: 1.8

Doctor says I could see an endo but I am doing research on my own first. My doc doesn't seem to know a lot about thyroid.

I started taking a multivitamin (with 200mcg selenium), as well as a kelp supplement (225 mg), and magnesium (500 mg) daily.

Anyone have any advice on what I should be doing? Hyper resources? Experiences?

Is this considered a mild case?

Thanks so much in advance.


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## calapitters (Aug 29, 2010)

Does anyone here have a child with congenital hypothyroidism or CH themselves? My youngest (now 14 months) was diagnosed with her newborn testing. She is a happy, healthy, developing little girl and I don't have any concerns, but I'm interested in hearing of other people's experiences. I don't know anyone else whose child was born with CH.


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## Xavismom (Dec 22, 2009)

Wow there is a ton of back information on this thread.. and now it seems to have died off? I can see I have much reading to do. I hope some of you come back. I am so overwhelmed today.

Went to see an ND for my thyroid and asthma. Got my results back, and I have Hashimotos. Next, she wants to do a food allergy blood test, specifically for gluten/dairy. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that too.


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## gabbyraja (May 26, 2004)

I don't know if the yahoo iodine group was suggested here or not, but what a tremendous wealth of information (like how to make your own lugol's drops to minimize cost)! It's run by a very knowledgable ND. I thought ya'll might be interested in this, from the group:

"I've been diagnosed with extreme intestinal candida along with extreme small intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) and low stomach acid...What if you suspect an ongoing bacterial infection such as mycoplasma bacterium. Dr. Brownstein says this bacteria shows up in 50 to 70% of Hashi's and Graves patients. (p. 122 in "Overcoming Thyroid Disorders")"

WuWei is right. All disease DOES begin in the gut!

Here're some helpful threads:

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1096747/where-to-start-help-101

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1091794/the-iodine-thread

www.mothering.com/community/t/1153174/the-adrenal-fatigue-thread

www.mothering.com/community/t/1063558/everything-one-needs-to-know-about-stomach-acid

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/952566/please-comment-on-susun-weed-letter-titled-candida-is-a-helper-it-is-keeping-you-healthy

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1299176/working-on-some-new-thoughts


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## gabbyraja (May 26, 2004)

There is also an excellent yahoo group for Natural Thyroid Hormones. Here's some info I learned there:

NP Thyroid by Acella is a generic from of Armour. You can ask your pharmacist to sub it for your armour Rx. It works like the old formulation of Armour. Dissolves better under the tongue, tastes better, WORKS better, requires less.

"If vitamin E is deficient, the absorption of iodine by the thyroid decreases to 5 % of normal. Because the glands, attempting to compensate for the deficiency, may become overactive or toxic, anyone with hyperthyroidism should take generous amounts of Vit E over a prolonged period. Giving adults 500 mgs daily has caused their thyroids to absorb twice as much iodine and the protein bound iodine in their blood has increased to normal. A high protein diet speeds the activity of a sluggish thyroid glands by supplying the amino acid thyrosine, from which the thyroid hormone is made. Tyrosine however, cannot be used without Vitamins B6 and C nor can the hormone be made without choline. Thyroxin is inactivated by oxygen if Vit C is undersupplied or destroyed. From Adele Davis's book "Lets get Well". A goldmine of a book as some well know."

"You should have a complete iron panel with ferritin done to try and sort out what is going on. It helps to take 5000 iu of Vitamin D3 as well and sublingual methyl B12. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ferritin/ " However, new info is coming out against D3, so we take Blue Ice fclo instead for our vit D.


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## Slmommy (Jan 22, 2012)

HELP?!?!

I'm sorry I can't read this whole thing, I'm sure my situation has been covered but maybe someone can give me a heads up? I know it is an old thread...

I've have hashis since I was about 14, (28 now)... always synthroid... prior to pregnancy was on 175 for many years, fluctuated during pregnancy, decreased after, and has been rising back up slowly. 6 Months after my daughter was born I found out I am Celiac too, so have been off gluten for about year and a half... I had been on synthroid 150 for quite a well, tested fine (tsh and t4) in May, then in Dec (with no symptoms):

TSH - 14.89 mcUI/mL (0.3 - 5.0)

Free T4 - 1.2 ng/dL (0.8-1.9)

T3 Total - 80

T4 Total - 6.3

So I was moved back to 175. Since then I've been having A LOT of emotional problems, depression, anxiety, I feel almost bi-polar - real ups and bad downs. Whenever I've had depression in the past it has been thyroid related. Also having sleep issues. My old dr. moved, so I tried a new one, did some reading on Stop The Thyroid Madness Website site and had her test (this week):

TSH - 1.32 mcUI/mL (0.3 - 5.0)

Free T4 - 1.5 ng/dL (0.8-1.9)

Free T3 - 295 pg/dL (200 - 420)

TgAb - 549.8 U/mL (under 115)

anti-TPO - 26.8 U/mL (under 34)

Reverse T3 - 46.46 ng/dL (8 - 40)

I emailed the new dr. with the results and she tells me everything is fine, we will re-test in a month. Everything is not fine with me, I really don't want to wait another month feeling so bad. I made another appt. with a different dr. for friday, but I want to be clear on what I'm reading on the STTM website...

My reverse t3 is too high, right?

I just want my ducks in a row because I do not live in the US and need to be very clear with the drs. here. I plan on printing out the STTM info, supposing the new dr. is fluent in english... and neither Armour nor Cytomel are available here. I want to find the root of the high RT3 anyway... I would not be surprised if it were low iron/b12... but I want to know... and also, I am confused about whether or not people with Hashis should be taking Iodine? If I need to start taking vitamins, whether or not I should get one with or without Iodine...

Could someone help me out? I just feel really not confident about what is going on, and also scared that these symptoms are not thyroid related. :/

ETA: ranges of exam results


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## gabbyraja (May 26, 2004)

1. It's almost assuredly thyroid related. 2. I don't have much advice for you, but I'd do whatever I could to get on desscated thyroid. There's a canadian thyroid Erfa, and there are companies that with s RX they will ship it to you. I may be able to find the link I saw recently... Iodine is necessary for EVERY cell in your body, not just the thyroid. Iodine is successful in treating both hyper and hypo thyroid, and is very helpful in Hashis. I highly recommend you hit the yahoo groups for iodine and natural thyroid hormones. You'll learn a lot about why synthroid (or whatever brand name you call it where you live) is next to useless, as just as many people have trouble converting T4 to T3 and have trouble manufacturing T4. So, simply subbing T4 is ridiculous. There are T3 only medications, and some do have luck with those, but almost always it's in addition to natural thyroid hormones. NTH group also has a good list of great thyroid drs, though I don't know where you are so don't know if they would be able to help with that. One person sugested caling local pharmacies and asking who is prescribing Armour, then go to them, but that wouldn't help you either, it seems...

My Dr. treats Hashi's patients with iodine only, with great success. It takes very high amounts, and you must build up slowly. The Yahoo group can give you the info you need on co-nutrients and such that help flush the toxins you release when you begin using iodine. There are also homeopathics that can help heal the thyroid. And getting nutrition under control is crucial! Get more traditional foods into your diet, and a magnesium supplement, STAT! Mag is very helpful with depression, anxiety and mood swings, as those are the most common symptoms of a Mag deficiency. 500 mg (NOT Mag citrate) at a time, at least 30 minutes apart, especially before bed. If you develop loose stools, back down to one less dose for maintenance, up it when under unusual stress (like getting sick, for instance). HTH


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## Slmommy (Jan 22, 2012)

Thank you for the reply,

Can you get dessicated thyroid in US/Canada/Europe without a prescription?? Maybe I'll have to wait until the next time I go to US ( I am in Brazil now), to find a dr, if I need a prescription.

I signed up for STTM fb group and a yahoo group... just have to wait for them to let me in!

Ironically, I have been going towards TF diet in the last few weeks, it makes a lot of sense to me and I hope to do more.

Here in Brazil, homeopathic drs are much more accepted than in the US, I am trying to get an appt with a highly recommened one but it might take a while...I'm really upset (once again) by the general mainstream approach to this. And lettting a patient walk out of your office clearly not well, with no hope, with no explanation... it just makes me so angry.


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## gabbyraja (May 26, 2004)

No problem! I don't know about Europe, but no on the other US/Canada. There is similar stuff you can get w/o rx, though. Lemme find that info...

Here are many of the known thyroid drugs compared. http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands/ Don't know which can be ordered w/o a rx, but I THINK thyrogold can be.

"Thyro Gold does not have any hormones removed and it is quite a strong form of NTH. It is not an extract, but includes the tissue as well, so it is measured differently. Because it is bovine instead of porcine, it has a slightly higher ratio of T3 to T4.

In my experience, three Thyro Gold capsules are equal to 5 grains of Thyroid S or NP Thyroid. I was very happy on Thyro Gold, but just couldn't afford it as I need a higher dose of NTH than many folks."


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## Slmommy (Jan 22, 2012)

Just wanted to post this in case anyone is ever in a similar situation - it looks like i can order Armour, Naturethroid, or Westhroid over the internet (they only ship to an international address) and also synthetic T4 replacements and T3.

http://www.internationalpharmacy.com/en/home

and

http://www.collegepharmacy.com/

there seem to be specific country restrictions... I may try it if I have no more luck here in Brazil finding anything... I have some more drs appts lined up though.

This might be interesting too for anyone living abroad or traveling for an extended amount of time internationally...


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## cali2tx (Feb 19, 2013)

Diagnosed with Hashimotos at age 8, decades later I'm 31yo mother of a beautiful 18mo girl.

I'm on Synthroid 100, I find Synthroid to work better than generic Levoxyl for me. I avoid soy & aim to eat lots of fiber. I'm anemic & take Flinstone vitamins w/iron, they help.

I'm subscribing to this thread even though its super long. I'll try to post my book & link suggestions soon.


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## cali2tx (Feb 19, 2013)

Book suggestion: The Thyroid Sourcebook by M. Sara Rosenthal

Its easy to read, explains the thyroid function, symptoms of disease & side effects of treatment. I've read it cover to cover & refer to it on occaison.

Another suggestion: The Complete Thyroid Book by Kenneth Ain & M. Sara Rosenthal

This is a bigger book & I would never dare to read it cover to cover but its a good reference book for specific topics like diets & to understand your test results.

These books are from more of a traditional modern medicine viewpoint, less about the homeopathic stuff that I find all over the internet.


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## Melissa Binkley (Mar 12, 2013)

Hello Ladies,

I was hypothyroid at one point in my life and my doctor put me on medications and hormones. I was so uncomfortable with the idea that I decided there must be another way. I not only was hypothyroid, but also had adrenal fatigue, and many digestive issues. I studied holistic nutrition and alternative medicines and was able to heal myself and am now happy that I no longer take any prescriptions and am normal! I work specifically with clients in helping them achieve healthy, balanced lifes through thoughtful nutrition with diet and deprivation and heal their hormonal imbalances! I have given several teleclasses on the subject and if anyone would like to hear the recording I would be glad to share. my email is [email protected] just hit me up! In health and healing


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## shelley4 (Sep 10, 2003)

hi, just wondering if anyone reads this thread anymore, or if there is a new one


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