# No Cry Sleep Solution - Does it Reduce Benefits of AP?



## WyattsMom2008 (May 9, 2008)

I have just ordered the book The No Cry Sleep Solution and am thinking of trying out the methods in this book. I am wondering, though, if it harms the baby in any way to do sleep training - even if he is not crying. For instance, if I can train him to sleep longer at night, then move him to his own crib for part of the night before his first night waking, will this reduce the benefits of attachment parenting? Thoughts?


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## tulipmama (May 12, 2006)

This is an incredibly gently-minded book with a lot of great advice--the advice given first and foremost is to trust your instincts and if or baby gets too upset at any juncture, to back up.


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## WyattsMom2008 (May 9, 2008)

Hi, thanks, but what I'm really wondering is if the baby will end up feeling more secure and loved if I allow him to co-sleep as long as he wants and totally just respond to his cues on it, rather than trying to manipulate him, however gently.

Maybe nobody knows the answer.

I'm starting to freak a little when I read some of the threads in here. I don't think I want those issues.

I thought that an AP baby would become more independent sooner. Wasn't that part of the argument Sears used to sell the concept of AP?

But I do want to give my baby the best emotional start. I don't want him to feel unloved or abandoned.

Sigh.


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## NJ*Doula (Apr 14, 2006)

I think it's a great book, it's done wonders for us. We're still co-sleeping, but Ned has learned that he can just cuddle up next to me to sooth himself to sleep rather than having to nurse every time (which always wakes me up). He's a very happy and secure baby who still gets comfort from his mama, just not from the nipple every time.


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## loveandgarbage (Feb 5, 2008)

OP, how old your son? we did the NCSS when ds was 15/16 months, and it worked well and was worth it. i think it's fairly AP, but your child has to be old enough, IMO, to feel secure falling asleep on his own, which is the goal of the NCSS. and there was definitely a little bit of crying for us, fyi.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

what issues are you thinking of avoiding? b/c honestly i dont think a book is going to prevent you from having a baby that needs a lot of night time parenting. its not an easy task but its very child-temperament dependent.

ive never heard that AP babies become more independent sooner. they are attached and secure...independence naturally comes with most kids...but not as babies.


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## ChelseaW (Jul 14, 2008)

I love this book too (the one for toddlers is great as well) and IMO it's right in line with AP values. She states that the goal is for everyone to get enough sleep however it works best for your family, which makes sense to me (a lot more than the books that tell you to schedule everything and push your baby into a prescribed "routine" early on.) It's all about balance and what works for you and your baby. If you feel that your son is ready for independent sleep, I'd say go for it. No need to worry too much about it - he'll let you know if he's not ready. If he reacts negatively, then you can try again later.

What specific issues are you worried about? From what I've read and seen with my own son, an AP child will not become independent early - in fact, to me that's one of the basic tenets of the whole philosophy, not to push a child into independence before he/she is ready. When kids are allowed to develop independence at their own pace, they are much more secure as older kids than those who were pushed into it early on by harsh sleep training methods and early weaning.

For what it's worth, of my friends who sleep trained their kids (using CIO methods) at least 90% of them have *more* issues with sleep now that their kids are older. While the AP kids I know feel secure going to bed and view it as a happy time of the day rather than avoid it and view it with fear.


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## WyattsMom2008 (May 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loveandgarbage* 
OP, how old your son? we did the NCSS when ds was 15/16 months, and it worked well and was worth it. i think it's fairly AP, but your child has to be old enough, IMO, to feel secure falling asleep on his own, which is the goal of the NCSS. and there was definitely a little bit of crying for us, fyi.

He's five and a half months old.


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## WyattsMom2008 (May 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
what issues are you thinking of avoiding?

I know many people don't mind having their kids in their bed until they're two or three or even older, but I don't think that style of night parenting is for me. I know I don't want a toddler lying next to me in bed and nursing every hour or two while kicking me, as many mothers on here have complained about. He doesn't do that now; but many people have said their babies became worse at certain ages and stages, such as while working on teething, crawling or walking.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
ive never heard that AP babies become more independent sooner. they are attached and secure...independence naturally comes with most kids...but not as babies.

I thought I remembered reading in The Baby Book that AP babies become independent sooner as children. Maybe I'm wrong. I also thought that in The Continuum Concept, the babies were fairly independent when they were crawling, though I haven't read the book. At any rate, I recall reading something by Dr. Sears responding to criticism of AP. He didn't specifically say that if you co-sleep with your baby, your baby will naturally become a more independent sleeper, but I vaguely and naively thought that was probably supposed to happen, until reading the threads in this forum. Now I have the impression that the co-sleeping habits that babies form are very hard to change. I'm not sorry I co-slept with my baby during his first four months of life, but now if he wakes up alone, he doesn't freak out. He knows I'll come when summoned. Often he will be quiet when awake, or he will talk to himself for a little while. He seems to be okay knowing that I still exist even if I'm not right there, and knowing that I will be back when he needs me.


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## weliveintheforest (Sep 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WyattsMom2008* 
now if he wakes up alone, he doesn't freak out. He knows I'll come when summoned. Often he will be quiet when awake, or he will talk to himself for a little while. He seems to be okay knowing that I still exist even if I'm not right there, and knowing that I will be back when he needs me.

I don't think this would change from doing the ncss. You are still responding to your baby, and continuing your attached relationship, even if your methods change.


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## WyattsMom2008 (May 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChelseaW* 
What specific issues are you worried about?

I don't want to have a kid in bed with dh and I until the age of 2, 3 or even older. That is not for us. It is okay with me if he is in bed part of the time, like in the morning or something, but not all night long.

Also, if I have to return to work and put my lo in daycare at least part time, the only way that anybody else will be able to get him to nap is by using CIO. Obviously nobody else is going to nurse him to sleep for his naps, which is what I do now, most of the time. Plus I can't even leave him with dh during his naptime. There's no way he'll sleep for dh. I have no flexibility whatsoever. That concerns me. It's okay for now, but it doesn't seem wise to me to assume that it can just be like that every day for the forseeable future.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChelseaW* 
From what I've read and seen with my own son, an AP child will not become independent early - in fact, to me that's one of the basic tenets of the whole philosophy, not to push a child into independence before he/she is ready. When kids are allowed to develop independence at their own pace, they are much more secure as older kids than those who were pushed into it early on by harsh sleep training methods and early weaning.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChelseaW* 
For what it's worth, of my friends who sleep trained their kids (using CIO methods) at least 90% of them have *more* issues with sleep now that their kids are older. While the AP kids I know feel secure going to bed and view it as a happy time of the day rather than avoid it and view it with fear.

I have no intention of doing the CIO thing. I had trouble sleeping as a kid. I don't know what my mother did, but I know my parents didn't co-sleep with us. I recall being very afraid of the dark and very insomniac throughout my childhood. I don't want my kid to be that way.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WyattsMom2008* 

Also, if I have to return to work and put my lo in daycare at least part time, the only way that anybody else will be able to get him to nap is by using CIO.

This is not true. Kids adapt. Also a child at even 7 or 8 months is totally different than that same child at 5 months.

-Angela


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
This is not true. Kids adapt. Also a child at even 7 or 8 months is totally different than that same child at 5 months.

-Angela

Angela is right. Kids do adapt. My ds will only go to sleep for me while nursing. There were about 3 times since his birth that I was just too exhausted to deal with him in the early am. I gave him to dh for an hour or 2 after nursing him. I would sleep that hour or two, come downstairs and see ds sleeping on dh's chest or in the swing, dh also sleeping. Babies learn that if they don't see the boob, and want to sleep, that they sleep when they are tired enough. I can't get ds to sleep without the boob, b/c he KNOWS that I have it, and if he protests long enough he will get it. He also knows that dh does NOT have the boob, so there is no way to get it if he does not see me. Its kind of funny... DS will be just fine with dh and then he see's me he bursts into tears immediately until I take him and give him the boob. He just doesn't fuss for dh b/c he knows fussing will not get him anywhere if the boob isn't there. He does still cry when he gets hungry, but that is expected. Then mama magically appears. There are other ways to get a baby to sleep other than the boob. (for others, anyway! just not mama)


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WyattsMom2008* 
I don't want to have a kid in bed with dh and I until the age of 2, 3 or even older. That is not for us. It is okay with me if he is in bed part of the time, like in the morning or something, but not all night long.

Also, if I have to return to work and put my lo in daycare at least part time, the only way that anybody else will be able to get him to nap is by using CIO. Obviously nobody else is going to nurse him to sleep for his naps, which is what I do now, most of the time. Plus I can't even leave him with dh during his naptime. There's no way he'll sleep for dh. I have no flexibility whatsoever. That concerns me. It's okay for now, but it doesn't seem wise to me to assume that it can just be like that every day for the forseeable future.


if you are ok with your child CIO at a daycare and you are expecting flexibility from a young child (as far as not being able to get out), then it doesnt seem that you embrace the AP nature of being with your son and meeting his needs. Your child may be one that doesnt need his mom around alot (my ds1 would have gone with anyone no matter what...he was just so social) but he may not. Its more about addressing your child's needs first, not yours.

sorry if that sounds harsh but teh whole "i want to leave my baby" line is such a mainstream non AP attitude...im not saying you cant embrace some aspects of AP but attempting to get a baby to become independent is not AP IMHO.


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

I went back to work when dd1 was 12 weeks old. She would fall asleep while I nursed her (and heaven help me if I tried to sooth her to sleep without the breast!) but she would happily fall asleep for dh as he walked/bounced her in his arms, and she would fall asleep in the stroller as my mom pushed it back and forth (my mom would sit on the couch and just push the stroller back/forth). When she was older she still wanted me to nurse her down but was now happy with dh or my mom sitting next to her nap-mat rubbing her back and/or reading a story in a soft voice. Actually, we nightweaned when she was about 18mo (using the NCSS for Toddler ideas) and it went pretty smoothly... in part because she already had a wide variety of "sleep routines".

Now, dd1 sleeps in a toddler bed pushed up against our queen, and dd2 (1yo) sleeps between dh and I. When dd2 is a bit bigger she'll share a toddler bed with her sister. I know you feel that you don't want a night nursing bed hog of a toddler in your bed... but please give yourself and your little one time! Five months is very young to worry about bed routines at 2 or 3 years! You may find that nightweaning at 1-2 years solves any problems you may have. You may find a toddler bed next to yours provides the space you need. You may find that you all sleep better in the same bed! (I certainly didn't "plan" on cosleeping with a toddler and a baby... it just happens to be where we are comfortable now.)

Anyway, please don't let threads here "scare" you into something. Every family and kiddo is different, and sleep needs change A LOT during the first year. I remember from the NCSS that every idea is presented with the "If it works for you" caveat. Keep in mind that the goal of the NCSS is to maximize sleep while remaining responsive... and as a result a goal of "babe sleeps alone" may take 6-8 months to reach using these ideas! And plans that respect breastfeeding/co sleeping but move more quickly (like the dr. gordon plan) actually state that your babe should be at least a year old before trying the method.

I guess I just want to encourage you to focus on where you and your family are now and on the immediate future (if you're going back to work soon maybe focus on having your partner parent-down-to-sleep your little one, and work on creating a nap routine that has nursing as a middle step instead of the final step... a care provider could sub in a cup of water or a bottle of pumped milk for the nursing, and the rest of the routine would stay constant). Don't worry about the problems/trials you see in other threads because you may never face that situation no matter what you do/don't do. So much depends on the babe!

(Just another example, dd1 wanted to nurse to sleep EVERY SINGLE TIME I put her to sleep.... naps or night... till we night weaned at 18mo. DD2 nurses to sleep maybe 1-2x a week from the time she was about 4mo...she'd rather nurse and then pull off for a snuggle. It's nothing I did differently, it's just a different kiddo... she likes to snuggle and then sprawl out on her back. The sleep "problems" we had with dd1 just haven't come up with dd2.)


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## catnip (Mar 25, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WyattsMom2008* 
I don't want to have a kid in bed with dh and I until the age of 2, 3 or even older. That is not for us. It is okay with me if he is in bed part of the time, like in the morning or something, but not all night long.

We co slept with our baby. She night-weaned at about 18 months, drama-free. No tears at all. At 2, we began gently transitioning her into her own bed. Now she is 3 and a half, and spends most of the night in her own bed almost every night. (She sleeps with us the first night after my mom leaves, since Grandma shares the bed with K when she visits, when she is sick or hurt, when we have guests that need her bed and usually our first night home after travelling). Again, this has been achieved with no crying at all, because if she doesn't want to sleep alone, I don't push it. Her bed is a double (with a twin bunk above), and one of us lies down with her every night until she's asleep. If I wake when she comes to crawl in with us, I move her gently back to her own bed, and then move back to my bed, but usually, I don't even wake up when she joins us.

Quote:

Also, if I have to return to work and put my lo in daycare at least part time, the only way that anybody else will be able to get him to nap is by using CIO. Obviously nobody else is going to nurse him to sleep for his naps, which is what I do now, most of the time. Plus I can't even leave him with dh during his naptime. There's no way he'll sleep for dh. I have no flexibility whatsoever. That concerns me. It's okay for now, but it doesn't seem wise to me to assume that it can just be like that every day for the forseeable future.
There are other ways to get babies to sleep. My husband's usual technique was to put the baby in a sling, go outside, and start walking. I do reccommend trying that a few times. Hand him the baby, nursed and sleepy, get them settled in your favorite carrier, and have them go walk. Never took more than a mile.

If your partner isn't willing to try that, then you've got other problems.

Quote:

I have no intention of doing the CIO thing. I had trouble sleeping as a kid. I don't know what my mother did, but I know my parents didn't co-sleep with us. I recall being very afraid of the dark and very insomniac throughout my childhood. I don't want my kid to be that way.
I was never CIO'd, but I'm an insomniac and was terribly afraid of the dark into my mid-teens.


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## WyattsMom2008 (May 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
if you are ok with your child CIO at a daycare

No, I'm not okay with that. That's why I think it would be wise to teach him to sleep using the methods in the No Cry Sleep Solution book.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
and you are expecting flexibility from a young child (as far as not being able to get out), then it doesnt seem that you embrace the AP nature of being with your son and meeting his needs.

Hmmm, I thought women described in the Continuum Concept would leave their babies with others after their babies were six weeks old. Then the babies would be brought to the moms for feeding.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
Your child may be one that doesnt need his mom around alot (my ds1 would have gone with anyone no matter what...he was just so social) but he may not. Its more about addressing your child's needs first, not yours.

Are you saying that I'll emotionally scar my baby for life if I leave him for three hours with my husband on a Saturday afternoon?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
sorry if that sounds harsh but teh whole "i want to leave my baby" line is such a mainstream non AP attitude...im not saying you cant embrace some aspects of AP but attempting to get a baby to become independent is not AP IMHO.

Then maybe I'm not AP. I want to give my baby a good start in life but I question if I really need to take self-sacrifice to such an extreme in order to do so. If asking questions like this is AP, then I guess I'm not AP.

Listen, I've just gone six months without getting a haircut. I'm not a bad mother. But I don't think it's wrong to have needs of my own. Your attitude seems a little extreme to me. If it's really true that I have to treat my baby the same way at 2 years old that I treated him at 2 weeks old, in order to avoid doing lasting emotional harm to him, then I'll pay the price. But I don't think that's true.


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## ChelseaW (Jul 14, 2008)

WyattsMom, IMO the AP philosophy is about listening to your baby/child when he makes his needs known and allowing him to grow independent at his own pace. It sounds to me like this is exactly what you are doing. The fact that your little one wakes up and doesn't need you there all the time is a sign (to me anyway) that he feels safe and secure at night and may be ready to sleep on his own for longer periods. There's nothing wrong with doing that if you are both ready. Sounds like you're doing a great job to me!









NCSS has lots of great ideas for helping your child learn to sleep w/out nursing every single time, but without CIO. (I had lots of nighttime fear as a child too, and my parents were/are big proponents of CIO. My mom thinks I'm really silly and misguided for not letting my son CIO - but that's another story!) I found it very helpful. The thing that I think is so great about AP is that it's flexible, based on the individual child's needs - so don't worry too much about doing everything 'by the book'.


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## WyattsMom2008 (May 9, 2008)

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your wisdom and experiences. Maybe I'll just wait a while. I'm not sure. I'll have to read the book and maybe give one or two things a try. For now, my lo is sleeping next to our bed in his little Amby Baby motion bed at night. When he wakes up in it, he doesn't freak out. He would have freaked out two months ago, for sure. He had to be right next to me, and if I wasn't there when he woke up, he would ball. Now if he wakes up and I'm not there, he'll lie there and look at the dimmed light on the ceiling and grunt and wiggle. Sometimes he'll talk softly to himself for a while. He knows I still exist even if I'm not right there with him, and he knows all he has to do is to summon me with a loud pre-crying noise, and I will appear.

Lately he has been able to sleep six hours at a stretch in it. But if he's next to me in bed, he'll only sleep three hours at a stretch. When he wakes to be fed, I lift him into bed next to me. Then after he's asleep, I put him back in the Amby. My reasons for doing this are partially for safety. He takes up more space in bed now when he is between my and dh. I don't want him on my other side, next to the edge of the bed, now that he can roll over. Plus I don't enjoy waking up with a back ache from sleeping on one side without moving.

I think I'm going to keep building on what is already working for us. I'm considering moving his Amby bed to his nursery and then going in to feed him when I hear him on the baby monitor. Maybe I'll sleep on the floor in his nursery next to him the first couple nights.

As for daytime napping, this is where I'll try the solutions in the No Cry book, but I'll back off if they seem to be pushing his limits too much.


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## mzfern (Nov 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
if you are ok with your child CIO at a daycare and you are expecting flexibility from a young child (as far as not being able to get out), then it doesnt seem that you embrace the AP nature of being with your son and meeting his needs. Your child may be one that doesnt need his mom around alot (my ds1 would have gone with anyone no matter what...he was just so social) but he may not. Its more about addressing your child's needs first, not yours.

sorry if that sounds harsh but teh whole "i want to leave my baby" line is such a mainstream non AP attitude...im not saying you cant embrace some aspects of AP but attempting to get a baby to become independent is not AP IMHO.

Whoa, this post is totally over the top







It sounds like the OP is looking for tools and ideas for her family so her child CAN sleep at daycare w/o resorting to CIO.

Mamas can totally be an attached parent and need to work for family income. To say that she's not AP because she concerned about how her baby will react to napping at daycare is not productive to the conversation.

OP, I agree with alegna. At five months, you can't predict how future napping routines will be. For us, it seems like routines are switched around weekly. It sounds like you're doing your very best to plan for the future and prepare your child for the times when you have to take care of other responsibilities in your life. Not much about babies is planable, sadly. I hope it works out for the best for you and your little guy.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

The thing about all these books is that it really comes down to your individual kid. You can try the techniques and some may be helpful, but still...your individual kid.

Lots of people have found NCSS helpful. I read it and it made a lot of sense to me. I tried it. But it didn't work for my kid. (btw, I didn't consider NCSS to be "sleep training").

Doc Sears may claim that AP makes for independent children. And perhaps some AP'd kids are quite independent. But I've been around on MDC long enough to know that many are quite clingy and shy long past the stage where others are happy to be dropped off at playdates. Individual kids.

I just don't think you can expect to get a certain kind of child by following a certain child-rearing technique.

Five months is pretty young. And OP, I sympathise fully. The infant nightwaking stage was the hardest thing I've gone through as a parent. It was hellish and I was a wreck. The path of least resistance for me was to co-sleep and nurse. At around 16 months, against our instincts but because we were totally fried with the nightwaking, we tried CIO. It didn't work.

By 2, our kid was waking only a few times a night and then going right back to sleep. At three he had transitioned happily to his own bed and when he woke he came into our bed and went back to sleep. (This was paradise compared to the first two years.)

If your baby turns out to fall in with the the techniques in NCSS, that will be great for you. And don't worry about its effects on your kid. If she's sleeping happily, that's great!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Just a warning to the OP- now might not be the best time to try anything new with regards to sleep. There's a HUGE sleep regression around 6 months.

-Angela


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## sunnygir1 (Oct 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
This is not true. Kids adapt. Also a child at even 7 or 8 months is totally different than that same child at 5 months.

-Angela

I started part time day care (in the provider's home) at 13 months or so. My provider puts my dd down for naps by laying her on her tummy and patting her back. Sometimes she cries, but she is not left alone to CIO. It only takes about 10 minutes for her to fall asleep. Now, at 17 months, the provider can often just lay her down and walk away and dd will lay there until she falls asleep (20 minutes yesterday).

She will NOT do this for me at home. I wouldn't worry too much about day care. They will have a different relationship with your child and they will work it out. They are professionals. Also, when I was touring daycares before I chose my provider, a number of them asked me about what I was okay with for nap time...they wouldn't let her CIO if I told them not to.


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## sunnygir1 (Oct 8, 2007)

Also, I think if you are expecting a miracle with AP (or any other method) you will be sorely disappointed. I think that many children aren't wired to sleep through the night with no adult contact until they are 3, 4, or even 5 years old. Having babies and toddlers is challenging no matter what your philosophy. I am glad you have chosen bed sharing for your family.

I have used a combination of having dd in our bed and having her in a side-carred co-sleeper and now crib. I am getting ready (at 17 months) to move her to the next room on a full mattress on the floor. She doesn't seem to sleep well next to me, so I'm going to see if she is less restless in the next room. The bed is also big enough that I can spend all or part of the night with her if she needs me. I'll post about the results once we get it started.


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## WyattsMom2008 (May 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mzfern* 
OP, I agree with alegna. At five months, you can't predict how future napping routines will be. For us, it seems like routines are switched around weekly. It sounds like you're doing your very best to plan for the future and prepare your child for the times when you have to take care of other responsibilities in your life. Not much about babies is planable, sadly. I hope it works out for the best for you and your little guy.

Thanks. I don't have experience, and I'm trying to do what will be best. It seems there must be a way for the baby not to go crazy, for me not to go crazy, and for dh not to go crazy. Win win win all around. Other animals don't go through this, do they? What's our problem? Is it that babies are geared to living in the stone age, but we don't live that way anymore?


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WyattsMom2008* 
It seems there must be a way for the baby not to go crazy, for me not to go crazy, and for dh not to go crazy. Win win win all around.

I wish this were true, but unfortunately, I think you're wrong. There is no way that will make everyone happy. Either the parents get sleep and the baby CIO's or the baby is nursed everytime it wakes and the parents are sleep-deprived wrecks. At least, that has been my experience and that of every parent I know. It's a situation to be endured and muddled through. Sorry to be so negative.

Granted, there are mothers who say they are able to roll over and nurse the baby back to sleep without even waking up or being aware of it. I wish I'd been one. And there are those miraculous wonder babies who sleep through the night on their own from six weeks on. I've read about them, anyway.


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## heidirk (Oct 19, 2007)

OP- please don't stress yourself out about infant caregivers in daycare putting kids to sleep by CIO. At the daycare where I worked, we were not ALLOWED to just put a baby down, and let him/her cry to sleep. Every infant was either put to sleep in arms, or in the swing, and then transfered to the crib. Even in the toddler room, we went to great lengths to parent the children to sleep. Some kids at one could lay down, and talk to themselves until they went to sleep, and some needed their backs patted and sung to.

I know all childcare centers are not equal, but CIO is usually not a workable option in a room with multiple children who are trying to sleep.

Maybe you could check NAYC regs in your area for some reasurrance?

Five months is not too young for a few of the NCSS, like introducing a lovey/transitional object during the bedtime routine, or just having a bedtime routine. Those are things that help lots of babies, and are not invasive.
Is it maniplulative? Maybe, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms where parenting itself is concerned.


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## mamatoady (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WyattsMom2008* 
Hi, thanks, but what I'm really wondering is if the baby will end up feeling more secure and loved if I allow him to co-sleep as long as he wants and totally just respond to his cues on it, rather than trying to manipulate him, however gently.

Maybe nobody knows the answer.

I'm starting to freak a little when I read some of the threads in here. I don't think I want those issues.

I thought that an AP baby would become more independent sooner. Wasn't that part of the argument Sears used to sell the concept of AP?

But I do want to give my baby the best emotional start. I don't want him to feel unloved or abandoned.

Sigh.

I read that book with dd1, an incessant nurser and co-sleeper. It didn't do us any good, because I couldn't not give her what she needed asap. First whimper called for a boob in the mouth







. She, therefore (I believe) rarely if ever cried. She was incredibly dependent on me and I questioned my AP parenting style. Someone then reminded me that a dependent child would be a dependent child regardless of the parenting method used. The question is whether or not you, as a parent, respond to their needs and nurture who they are. My daughter is now almost 6 (starts school this fall) and is 10 times more outgoing than I am. She can still be reserved and quiet (by nature) but she'll willingly go ask kids she doesn't know if they want to play and has no fear of trying new things. She gets a huge thrill out of doing things by herself (like taking money to the register at a restaurant by herself).

I think that's a good book, I chose not to use it. I think if you stay away from ezzo and ferber, you'll do alright, lol
sarah


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## mamatoady (Mar 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heidirk* 
OP- please don't stress yourself out about infant caregivers in daycare putting kids to sleep by CIO. At the daycare where I worked, we were not ALLOWED to just put a baby down, and let him/her cry to sleep. Every infant was either put to sleep in arms, or in the swing, and then transfered to the crib. Even in the toddler room, we went to great lengths to parent the children to sleep. Some kids at one could lay down, and talk to themselves until they went to sleep, and some needed their backs patted and sung to.

I know all childcare centers are not equal, but CIO is usually not a workable option in a room with multiple children who are trying to sleep.

Maybe you could check NAYC regs in your area for some reasurrance?

Five months is not too young for a few of the NCSS, like introducing a lovey/transitional object during the bedtime routine, or just having a bedtime routine. Those are things that help lots of babies, and are not invasive.
Is it maniplulative? Maybe, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms where parenting itself is concerned.









This is so horrible I shouldn't write it because I don't want to freak OP out, but stuff like that DOES happen to some degree. B4 I was a parent, I worked as an assistant teacher in a daycare, in both the infant and 2 year old room. I remember 2 specific children who if they had been MY kids being put down, I would have FLIPPED OUT and probably called the police. We had a 2.5 year old that I watched the other assistant teacher literally straddle on the cot while she screamed bloody murder for sometimes 10 minutes or more and would fall asleep. The other kids would watch in horror. She was adopted from Russia and possibly had fetal alcohol....she was a difficult child...but if she had been allowed to read on her cot for an hour, she would have happily done it

the other child was a 10 month old and she would drink her bottle happily at nap time and then she would get literally forced into a cradling position to go to sleep. she would scream and cry and thrash while being forced into sleeping submission. This was daily and was just chalked up to "how to put her to sleep".

Anyway, this was at a church day care and nursery school that was very well respected.

you never know what you're going to get. I never saw kids cry it out in the crib (that wouldn't have been ok) but I almost think some of the things I watched were worse.

I was pretty young and although I felt those things were wrong, I didn't feel I could say something to the director of the program







...now I know better.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnygir1* 
Also, I think if you are expecting a miracle with AP (or any other method) you will be sorely disappointed.









:

I don't call myself "an AP parent" anymore, mostly for this reason. I don't like the attitude that if you take one philosophy and follow the checklist and do it perfectly enough, it will result in perfect kids.

There is no one "right" way to parent. There are wrong ways to parent, and there are a multitude of "pretty good, doing the best I can" ways to parent. If your "pretty good" isn't exactly the same as someone else's, who cares? We're all just muddling through this, doing whatever we can to keep everyone as sane as possible.


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## skeegan23 (Apr 28, 2008)

I just checked this book out at our local library.... it is very much PRO AP, the author herself says that she cosleeps and bf her children for personal reasons and recommends the book "attachment parenting" if not already read.

With that said, I don't view this book as a baby training book at all. Great book. A lot of the advice seems to be geared towards the older baby. Also, she gives ideas on how to transition baby out of your bed if you are ready to do so or how to make co sleeping an easier situation w/o having baby attached to nipple all night. She also gives advice for crib users etc. IMO, her tips would not affect ap-ing in a negative way. I don't think it is any less ap-ing to co-sleep w/o having to nurse all night, kwim? If anything, it helps ap-ing moms save their sanity and not feel like they have to "martyr" themselves so to speak. Definitely a pro-AP book! Good luck.


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## skeegan23 (Apr 28, 2008)

Sorry, momma, I hadn't read the responses before I posted my response... Just wanted to say like other mommas said, AP means a lot of different things. There is no set mold. Have you read the baby book? Dr. Sears talks a lot about working mothers and APing etc.

Sleep is a sensitive subject for everyone, every baby, every mom, every style of parenting. That's why there are so many "methods" out there. Give yourself time and a little credit. It's good to think ahead, but don't stress. 5 mos is still young. Also, a lot of the posts you read on here are out of desperation, trying to find help. It is rare for someone to randomly post, "we had such a good night last night!" lol. I think it is good for you to leave the house for 2 hrs or let dh take baby for nap time. It allows dh a chance to learn how to put baby to sleep in his own way, whatever that may be for him. For my dh, he uses the wrap. We have sleep issues of our own (of course) but I am starting to learn that I have to give other people a chance in putting my dd to sleep. Do you use a paci? I feel that nursery/day care babies self soothe well w/ a paci. My dd WILL NOT take a paci for anything! But paci's can help very much. Anyway, good luck and don't stress. A lot can change over the course of a couple months. Every "phase" runs it's course, I promise!!


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## jadzia's_mommy (Jun 9, 2005)

The thing about the NCSS is that it is adaptable to whatever style of sleeping you're using in your own family. If your child is sleeping in a crib in another room...she's got some advice for that. If you're co-sleeping 100%, then she has some advice for that too. I found with both my kiddos that things changed all the time wrt sleep, and the important thing was to listen to what their needs were. My DD#1 went through a phase where she would just lay down in the Amby, and go to sleep when I left the room. I could sit there with her for hours and she wouldn't sleep, but if I left...she'd be out like a light. A couple months later, that changed again and we went back to full time co-sleeping. I just tried to do what seemed to be best for her.

There are gentle ways of nightweaning as well as going from co-sleeping to independent sleep at a toddler age. You're not locked into anything right this minute.

And btw, I did have both my dds in daycare at some point. I specifically spoke to them about NOT letting them CIO before I ever signed them up. You'll find that if mom isn't around and nursing isn't on the table it is amazing how they respond to other methods of going to sleep.


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## DeChRi (Apr 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WyattsMom2008* 

Listen, I've just gone six months without getting a haircut. I'm not a bad mother. But I don't think it's wrong to have needs of my own. Your attitude seems a little extreme to me.

I just wanted to pop in with some support here. With DD #1 I thought ever leaving my child for a couple hours for the sake of sanity was Un-AP and would result in her mental trama. She wanted me 24/7, I needed some space. I never took it and let me tell you...after not having even 2 hours of alone time in 4 years, I struggled. And DD suffered as a result.

Now, 9 years later, DD #2 is here. She would love to be attached to me 24/7. However, about 1x week, my inlaws come over with the girls for a couple hours, and DH and I go out and do something, make googoo eyes, sit in peace, reconnect, etc. Yes, the baby fusses. Yes, my inlaws walk her, sing, snuggle, coo, kiss on and love her. And when she falls asleep for them, they always hold her and let her snooze in their arms. Would she prefer to be with me during that time? Yup. Am I a better mama, better wife, providing my kids with more loving parents because we choose to do that. Yup!

I'm seeking sleep advice here too (just bought NCSS!)....but I think you should go get your hair cut.


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## mamatoady (Mar 16, 2004)

REading through all these posts got me wondering ...of the momma's who are of the belief that you don't ever leave your child if they need you and you sacrifice as long as you need to because that's the right way to do it (and I am one of those people, mind you) how many of you had a hard time growing up for whatever reason and want to not allow that to happen for your child?

Likewise, those of you who theoretically agree with this, but want that "me time" and thus take it--do you look back on your childhood and feel very confident?

I wonder because I never left my dd until she was more than 2 and although I did occasionally leave ds and felt horribly guilty about it and stopped, I was one of those people who was very afraid going to bed at night and would wake frequently and lie there in the dark wondering if everyone else was still in the house and what not. I would put myself to bed before my brothers went to bed because the hall light was on and it was more comfortable with hearing them play in their rooms--I fell asleep easier.

Do I think my sleep problems were because my mom let us CIO? Not sure, maybe partly that's true--but not totally. Wondering what other moms felt though....

I definitely feel like a minority in my social circle. I always feel like my friends are pawning their parenting responsibilities off just to do simple things while their kids are little and I wonder who's actually the insane one, lol (possibly me, lol)

sarah


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

ive never said a mom should never leave her child. i just dont think expecting a young child to be flexible is very realistic. ive been on both sides of teh fence on this one..i went back to work as soon as ds2 was 6 weeks old..we had a nanny. yes, kids adapt. however, night time was a very very clingy time for him. as i mentioned earlier, ds1 was of a temperament that you could have left him w/ almost anyone..he still (at 17) is a social butterfly...fluttering everywhere.

to me, AP is about addressing the child's needs first...whatever those are. i know what its like not to get a haircut for 6 months. i actually got my first post partum haircut around 9 months when a friend went with me and walked around w/ my son in another store (b/c i didnt want him in the hair salon w/ all the smells, etc. etc.). it was very refreshing.

my view doesnt have anything to do w/ my childhood, at least not consciously. ive gone from working outside the home alot to being a sahm. i parented the same in all other aspects (for the most part..there are things i have done differently since discovering MDC but thats mostly health wise).

my only point is that the child's temperament has alot to do w/ it and should be considered first and foremost. NCSS would not work for my son (ds3) b/c there were suggestions in there that would really distress him.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatoady* 
REading through all these posts got me wondering ...of the momma's who are of the belief that you don't ever leave your child if they need you and you sacrifice as long as you need to because that's the right way to do it (and I am one of those people, mind you) how many of you had a hard time growing up for whatever reason and want to not allow that to happen for your child?

Likewise, those of you who theoretically agree with this, but want that "me time" and thus take it--do you look back on your childhood and feel very confident?

I don't leave my kids while they need me. But I don't feel guilty when I do leave them (when they're ready)









BUT - I don't feel a need for "me" time where I leave them with someone. I can meet my own personal needs for me time in the house with dh with the kids in a different part of the house.

My parents were fairly AP. I know they NEVER did CIO. I was in their room until 3, then often slept on the floor next to their bed for the next couple of years.

-Angela


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatoady* 
REading through all these posts got me wondering ...of the momma's who are of the belief that you don't ever leave your child if they need you and you sacrifice as long as you need to because that's the right way to do it (and I am one of those people, mind you) how many of you had a hard time growing up for whatever reason and want to not allow that to happen for your child?

Likewise, those of you who theoretically agree with this, but want that "me time" and thus take it--do you look back on your childhood and feel very confident?

What a great question. I never even thought of it. I had a very lonely childhood with depressed, lonely parents. I feel like my mother had only us as her company/source of happiness and it wasn't good.

Now I would consider myself pretty mainstream by MDC standards. I don't leave DS very often but I don't hesitate to if I really feel like a break (like at 12 mos I went away for a weekend. And again at 17 mos). I feel like by NOT leaving kids with their fathers we are doing them a disservice and so I did go out some nights (like maybe 6 in the past 2 years) even when I knew there would be tears.

I occasionally leave him with a friend during the day (appointments...early evening dates) and all but one time he was upset to see us leave but happy by the time we got back.

For me - DS' needs do NOT come first.. all the time. I don't feel like that is sustainable or healthy for ANY member of our family.


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## wallacesmum (Jun 2, 2006)

As has been said, different kids are different. Embracing the reality that my feelings and attitude are the only thing that I have any control over, and that my child's needs are equally valid to mine but expressed differently, has made it possible for me to meet his needs without feeling like I am making sacrifices.

I think a lot of "mainstream" parenting is focused on ends, and those ends are abstract. Around my home, we are only focused on means. That's the present, and that's where we are, right now.

My advice is to just let go of expectations. The future will come, and it will be whatever it is. Just parent now, the best you can. If you are interested in NCSS, give it a try, and if you really tune in, you will know immediately whether it makes sense for your family. I could tell it wouldn't work in mine, so we didn't use it.

It is hard to relax into this process, but I find that it works best if I do!


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## ktmama (Jan 21, 2004)

_For instance, if I can train him to sleep longer at night, then move him to his own crib for part of the night before his first night waking, will this reduce the benefits of attachment parenting? Thoughts?_

In a word, NO. The real definition of AP is responding in a loving way to your child's _individual_ needs. Some kids sleep better in the family bed, some better next to your bed, some in a crib in their own room. You can still be attached with always being *physically* attached, IYKWIM.

BTW, I think the book recommends starting a nighttime routine at five months or so.


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## La Sombra (Sep 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
This is not true. Kids adapt. Also a child at even 7 or 8 months is totally different than that same child at 5 months.

I think that is one thing that you will love about NCSS. I really approaches how you can (gently, slowly, effectively) change your baby's sleep associations so that it's not always mama having to nurse baby (back) to sleep.

So far from negating the benefits of AP, it actually introduces new comforts to you lo--to the benefit of your whole family!


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## WyattsMom2008 (May 9, 2008)

The book just came in the mail today, and I read part of it last night. I've already been doing some things. I've started a bedtime routine, for instance. The thing is, night time sleeping is okay right now, except for getting him to sleep is a drag. Takes an hour and a half of my lying next to him, intermittently nursing. After that, I put him in the Amby bed. He can go four hours at a time in it at night, although it varies, and sometimes he wakes for the next hour or two after I put him down. I think it's because he's starting to teeth.

It's daytime napping that is sometimes driving me bonkers. I feel as if, on at least every other day, I spend more time trying to get ds to nap, than he actually spends napping (without me lying next to him). On a good day, around 11:00, I'll go to bed with him, and he'll nurse to sleep for about an hour. After that, I can walk away. He'll wake up every hour, I nurse him back to sleep, and this continues until he's gotten three hours of sleep. I intermittently have two or three 45 minute blocks of time.

One thing that I hate is that I never know whether he will actually finally get sleepy enough to nap without me until 12:00, 1:00, 2:00, 3:00. So I can't just plan to go somewhere or do something before or after his nap.

Lately I've been considering ditching the whole napping obsession and just getting out with him, wearing him, and letting him sleep or not while I go around and do whatever. This is good in theory, but I find he wakes too easily, and then he might get a half hour catnap that afternoon. Then he's sleepy around dinnertime. If he takes an evening nap, however, then it takes longer to get him to sleep for the night.

I really hate how my daytimes revolve around napping and then evening comes and evening is all about da*n dinner. Then bath. Then getting him to bed for the night. Does that sound whiney enough for ya?







:


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## WyattsMom2008 (May 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PassionateWriter* 
to me, AP is about addressing the child's needs first...whatever those are. i know what its like not to get a haircut for 6 months. i actually got my first post partum haircut around 9 months when a friend went with me and walked around w/ my son in another store (b/c i didnt want him in the hair salon w/ all the smells, etc. etc.). it was very refreshing.

I have been addressing his needs first. Ask my husband, he'll tell ya.









But I'm trying to find a better way than total submersion in MartyrMomdom.

My Mom was a Martyr Mom, and she didn't do me any favors by modeling low self-esteem for me, BTW.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WyattsMom2008* 
I have been addressing his needs first. Ask my husband, he'll tell ya.









But I'm trying to find a better way than total submersion in MartyrMomdom.

My Mom was a Martyr Mom, and she didn't do me any favors by modeling low self-esteem for me, BTW.

you asked for opinions and i gave you one. im not saying you are NOT addressing his needs first. all i am saying is that is what AP is about, from my reading.

i am not a martry for my kids. i dont think i need to be in order to address their needs.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WyattsMom2008* 
I have been addressing his needs first. Ask my husband, he'll tell ya.









But I'm trying to find a better way than total submersion in MartyrMomdom.

My Mom was a Martyr Mom, and she didn't do me any favors by modeling low self-esteem for me, BTW.

I agree 100%. Do/can you pump? Leave your baby with your husband and go get a haircut. It's good to get out.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WyattsMom2008* 
Lately I've been considering ditching the whole napping obsession and just getting out with him, wearing him, and letting him sleep or not while I go around and do whatever. This is good in theory, but I find he wakes too easily, and then he might get a half hour catnap that afternoon. Then he's sleepy around dinnertime. If he takes an evening nap, however, then it takes longer to get him to sleep for the night.

I really hate how my daytimes revolve around napping and then evening comes and evening is all about da*n dinner. Then bath. Then getting him to bed for the night. Does that sound whiney enough for ya?







:

This is a good idea IMO. I refused to fight about sleep (or food) and this also meant I wasn't ruled by it. We went and did stuff whenever. I figure if they're sleepy enough, they'll sleep.

I can't imagine how you'd manage with 2 or more if you were house-bound for every "nap time" The olders would never get to do anything.

-Angela


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WyattsMom2008* 
The book just came in the mail today, and I read part of it last night. I've already been doing some things. I've started a bedtime routine, for instance. The thing is, night time sleeping is okay right now, except for getting him to sleep is a drag. Takes an hour and a half of my lying next to him, intermittently nursing. After that, I put him in the Amby bed. He can go four hours at a time in it at night, although it varies, and sometimes he wakes for the next hour or two after I put him down. I think it's because he's starting to teeth.

It's daytime napping that is sometimes driving me bonkers. I feel as if, on at least every other day, I spend more time trying to get ds to nap, than he actually spends napping (without me lying next to him). On a good day, around 11:00, I'll go to bed with him, and he'll nurse to sleep for about an hour. After that, I can walk away. He'll wake up every hour, I nurse him back to sleep, and this continues until he's gotten three hours of sleep. I intermittently have two or three 45 minute blocks of time.

One thing that I hate is that I never know whether he will actually finally get sleepy enough to nap without me until 12:00, 1:00, 2:00, 3:00. So I can't just plan to go somewhere or do something before or after his nap.

Lately I've been considering ditching the whole napping obsession and just getting out with him, wearing him, and letting him sleep or not while I go around and do whatever. This is good in theory, but I find he wakes too easily, and then he might get a half hour catnap that afternoon. Then he's sleepy around dinnertime. If he takes an evening nap, however, then it takes longer to get him to sleep for the night.

I really hate how my daytimes revolve around napping and then evening comes and evening is all about da*n dinner. Then bath. Then getting him to bed for the night. Does that sound whiney enough for ya?







:

Not all kids will nap well. Mine did although I did work on it (but I know people who have worked on it with no success).

I think NCSS has the typical nap times/durations and I worked around that. I napped with him initially so that he'd know how long he 'should' nap for. As in - if he woke after 45 minutes I was right there to nurse him back down. I structured our days around his naps,too. So I knew that he should be asleep 2 hours after waking and therefore I planned something quick for us to do and would start winding him down for a nap 15 minutes before his naptime. I know this sounds ridiculously obsessive to some people but it was more annoying for me to not know and I thought (INCORRECTLY!) that if he napped better he'd better sleep at night.

That 2..3..4 pattern is helpful and accurate for us.
First nap 2 hours after waking (ASLEEP 2 hours after waking)
2nd nap 3 hours after waking from that.
Bedtime (asleep) 4 hours after that. So that meant starting his bedtime rountine 45 minutes before his sleep time, for example.

Again.. I know this sounds like overkill but after a week or so it all fell into place.

As for just giving up on it and wearing him all day. I don't see anything wrong with that either if your personality will support it. It wouldn't work for me b/c I felt claustrophobic holding him all day. I needed that down time.

I would definitely try that pantley pull off from NCSS to help him fall asleep without nursing. I couldn't nurse for that long before sleep b/c it made me feel sick. I get overstimulated or something. I can't explain it.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 

I can't imagine how you'd manage with 2 or more if you were house-bound for every "nap time" The olders would never get to do anything.

-Angela

This is true! My second baby will not have the same luxury as DS did.


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## ilovebabies (Jun 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
This is a good idea IMO. I refused to fight about sleep (or food) and this also meant I wasn't ruled by it. We went and did stuff whenever. I figure if they're sleepy enough, they'll sleep.

I can't imagine how you'd manage with 2 or more if you were house-bound for every "nap time" The olders would never get to do anything.

-Angela

Yep, you have to learn to go with the flow. I have a 15 & 12 year old and then two littles and I'm pg. We cannot stay housebound. I try to be home during nap time, but if it doesn't work out, then it doesn't work out. My lo's learn to sleep just about anywhere.


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## WyattsMom2008 (May 9, 2008)

Well, I just blew a whole day trying unsuccessfully to get ds to nap longer than a half hour at a time.

I think I'll give him what Jean Liedloff calls the "panorama of life" in what remains of his "in-arms phase". He is surprisingly happy right now in the cradle carry position in the pouch. He acts like he missed it. I'm going to get a wrap and try a few carries in that, too. (He just plain hates the Kozy Carrier.) He won't nap any worse than he did today, and he'll learn a heck of a lot more. He'll also have a happier Mommy.

Then when he's older, I'll try the NCSS again. Maybe once he's crawling or once he's walking. Dunno.

Thanks, ladies, you're great as usual. I love this site!


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## Devaya (Sep 23, 2007)

Its been interesting to read this thread...i've been wondering many of the same things myself. I tried NCSS a few months ago (think DS was 6 months - he's now nearly 10 months) and gave up after a week cos using the Pantley Pull-off resulted in extreme exhaustion on my part







Oh well...I also couldn't stick to the naps thing because my life is just too active and DS gets bored being round the house all day, and like the OP, I got frustrated trying to get him to nap all the time...he actually napped more when i WASN'T trying. I find what works best is just taking him round with me and he naturally falls asleep about twice a day, occasionally he's too stimulated and doesn't, but then he catches up later. It all balances out. I just couldn't think about it all too much, IYKWIM?

I also have been scared from reading many of the threads on here about toddlers/three year olds who are still having sleep problems, but I also figure, if what's working for us now is co-sleeping part of the night, and mostly DS nursing to sleep but he's also able to fall asleep other ways sometimes, that's fine. I don't feel like forcing it and going out of my way to change stuff. But..I'm finding it increasingly difficult to hold to this as the mothers around me (even the die-hard co-sleeping ones) are starting to night-wean and sleep-train (Not with CIO, just not feeding to sleep) and I can see myself being the last one standing (or lying down!) So MDC is great to keep it all in perspective and show the range of options and opinions out there. I also agree with what PP's have said, that its hard to find a solution that suits mother, baby, partner and everyone basically. At the moment DS and I are happy with the sleep arrangements but DP is less so.. and I'm afraid it's going to stay that way for a while.


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Devaya* 
Its been interesting to read this thread...i've been wondering many of the same things myself. I tried NCSS a few months ago (think DS was 6 months - he's now nearly 10 months) and gave up after a week cos using the Pantley Pull-off resulted in extreme exhaustion on my part







Oh well...I also couldn't stick to the naps thing because my life is just too active and DS gets bored being round the house all day, and like the OP, I got frustrated trying to get him to nap all the time...he actually napped more when i WASN'T trying. I find what works best is just taking him round with me and he naturally falls asleep about twice a day, occasionally he's too stimulated and doesn't, but then he catches up later. It all balances out. I just couldn't think about it all too much, IYKWIM?

I also have been scared from reading many of the threads on here about toddlers/three year olds who are still having sleep problems, but I also figure, if what's working for us now is co-sleeping part of the night, and mostly DS nursing to sleep but he's also able to fall asleep other ways sometimes, that's fine. I don't feel like forcing it and going out of my way to change stuff. But..I'm finding it increasingly difficult to hold to this as the mothers around me (even the die-hard co-sleeping ones) are starting to night-wean and sleep-train (Not with CIO, just not feeding to sleep) and I can see myself being the last one standing (or lying down!) So MDC is great to keep it all in perspective and show the range of options and opinions out there. I also agree with what PP's have said, that its hard to find a solution that suits mother, baby, partner and everyone basically. At the moment DS and I are happy with the sleep arrangements but DP is less so.. and I'm afraid it's going to stay that way for a while.

i think thats a really great attitude to have. i know its hard to be the last one standing...w/ ppl making you feel as if you are not making the right decision (you will get sleep advice from everywhere it seems) but you are his mom and it sounds like you are meeting his needs. I say this coming from someone w/ a 2.5 yo that is one of those who is "feared" in this forum i guess...but i know that it won't be hard forever. It will get better.







s

wyatts mom, baby wearing has really saved my sanity. The Ergo is still used almost daily and has been since around 6 months (maybe sooner..memory is foggy).

i know you think my earlier post was harsh but what you are doing is all i was recommended. sorry if it came across too harshly but it seems you are following his cues and figured out its hard to "force" a baby (or toddler) to sleep.

good luck!


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WyattsMom2008* 
I don't want to have a kid in bed with dh and I until the age of 2, 3 or even older. That is not for us. It is okay with me if he is in bed part of the time, like in the morning or something, but not all night long.

you might be surprised by how you feel once your little baby is over 1, pushing 2 or 3, etc. i didn't think i'd want to co-sleep past a year but now i can't imagine stopping anytime soon







:

Quote:

Also, if I have to return to work and put my lo in daycare at least part time, the only way that anybody else will be able to get him to nap is by using CIO. Obviously nobody else is going to nurse him to sleep for his naps, which is what I do now, most of the time. Plus I can't even leave him with dh during his naptime. There's no way he'll sleep for dh. I have no flexibility whatsoever. That concerns me. It's okay for now, but it doesn't seem wise to me to assume that it can just be like that every day for the forseeable future.
not true. of course they can't nurse him to sleep, but not nursing does not mean CIO. DD does not CIO in anyone's care. DCP and DH both put her to sleep by lying with her, and she goes down fine. even if she cried like that, it's not CIO--she's being comforted.

my advice for you is just try to survive the present moment, and enjoy it as much as you can. if something is REALLY not working, by all means change it, but don't borrow trouble from other people's posts









many older kids sleep just fine, and their moms are not posting on this forum!


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamatoady* 
REading through all these posts got me wondering ...of the momma's who are of the belief that you don't ever leave your child if they need you and you sacrifice as long as you need to because that's the right way to do it (and I am one of those people, mind you) how many of you had a hard time growing up for whatever reason and want to not allow that to happen for your child?

Likewise, those of you who theoretically agree with this, but want that "me time" and thus take it--do you look back on your childhood and feel very confident?

I wonder because I never left my dd until she was more than 2 and although I did occasionally leave ds and felt horribly guilty about it and stopped, I was one of those people who was very afraid going to bed at night and would wake frequently and lie there in the dark wondering if everyone else was still in the house and what not. I would put myself to bed before my brothers went to bed because the hall light was on and it was more comfortable with hearing them play in their rooms--I fell asleep easier.

Do I think my sleep problems were because my mom let us CIO? Not sure, maybe partly that's true--but not totally. Wondering what other moms felt though....

I definitely feel like a minority in my social circle. I always feel like my friends are pawning their parenting responsibilities off just to do simple things while their kids are little and I wonder who's actually the insane one, lol (possibly me, lol)

sarah

i am the type who needs/wants me-time and takes it. (i WOH and DD is in PT daycare.) i do consider myself pretty darn AP, however.

i had a kind of hard childhood.

i look around at some people who are with their kids basically 24/7 and know that _i_ just could not be a good mother doing that. the way i look at it, DD is always going to wish she could be with me 24/7, but if she understood what a better mother i am NOT doing that, i really believe she would choose me to put her in daycare. really.









things might be different, too, if i had a more difficult child, but she is very social and adapts pretty easily to new people and new routines. so the transition to daycare has been fairly easy.


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## mchalehm (Feb 5, 2007)

I've used NCSS for my toddler and will use it with my infant as he gets a little older (he is almost 4 weeks now, so not really old enough). I think it's very gentle and totally compatible with AP. AP is not about absolutely obeying your baby's every whim; it's about communicating with your child and respecting your child as part of the family, and doing what is best for the family.

For us, having a toddler in our bed jumping on our heads/breasts/testicles at 4 a.m. was not good for the family. We got a lot of help from NCSS for making her a better sleeper and we're using it again now that the new baby has caused a bit of a backslide in her sleeping habits. We don't CIO or anything like that; we always respond when she is upset or scared and she knows that she can rely on us, which (IMO) is the goal of attachment parenting.


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## ilovebabies (Jun 7, 2008)

We sleep trained our first two children but not our last two who co-sleep with us. When I read NCSS, I laughed because it's exactly the way we sleep trained our first two! I didn't even need the book, my instincts were right on way back then! But, we did it differently these last two times around because I was influenced too much my by the things I was reading. I don't regret it, and I've learned so much! There has been so much good in it!

We've done it both ways and I'm pg again. We've decided that sleep training is the way to go (for our family) so that's what we're going to do with this new lo when the time is right.

And we still consider ourselves very AP.


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