# School overnight field trip



## velochic (May 13, 2002)

This really has to do with parenting and the family bed, but I'm going to put it here because it's probably most related to school.

Dd, 2nd grade, attends a language immersion school that she absolutely LOVES. She has been there from the 3yo program, being immersed in the target language and she has friends that she literally has grown up with. She thrives at this school. She is social, loves her teachers, is independent and one of the best students in an academically challenging environment that suits her personality well.

However, there is one thing that we are apprehensive about. The kids in 2nd grade are required (part of their grade) to spend a night at camp. It will increase to when they will eventually start doing exchange programs abroad in a few years. So this year, one night, next year, two nights, ect. 3 trips abroad between 5th and 12th.

Here's the thing... dd can't sleep alone yet. She has not spent a night outside of the family bed since she was born 8 years ago. I take that back, she'll occasionally sleep in my mom's bed (mom lives with us in her own addition on the house), but most of the time, she ends up back in bed with us even then.

She does sleep in the top bunk above me when we rent cabins with bunk beds. Sometimes she climbs down and gets in bed with me, but can and has slept by herself when we've been camping.

She wants to go on this trip (and "technically" it's required), but I respect her needs and know that eventually, she *will* outgrow wanting to co-sleep. I co-slept with my parents (at the foot of their bed, not between them) until I was about 9. Then after they divorced, my mom and I often slept in the same bed because we were both lonely (I was around 12) and I had just lost a brother to a fire and was scared. I understand the need to have family around you when you are at your most vulnerable time of the day (or night as it were). I respect that in dd. (She's an only child, btw.)

I don't think that the school will accept this to excuse her from this trip. Eventually, I *DO* want her to be able to go on these trips, as the cultural diversity is one reason we're sending her to this school. Just the other day I was at a meeting and when someone found out where dd attends school, they said, "Oh, yeah, I know that school. They say that eating lunch there is like eating lunch at the U.N." It really is a great school and I think she would benefit in many ways if she could go on this 2 day camp. I really think if she'd just go, she would have a BLAST! But I won't force her and the idea makes her very nervous.

BTW - no parents allowed on the trip.

Sorry this is so long. Anyway, I'm looking for any suggestions, thoughts? We've been talking to dd about this for a year (knowing it was coming), and she has tried to sleep alone, but it never worked.


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## ASusan (Jun 6, 2006)

She's 8. She wants to go. I think she understands the consequences of choosing to go - she has to sleep alone. If she can't sleep, she'll have a rough night. Children act very differently in different contexts and different people. My son is capable of falling asleep on his own at daycare. At home? No way.

Chances are, they won't get much sleep anyway! Or, they will be so worn out that they will all sleep easily and soundly. If she is uncomfortable, is there someone she can go to to talk about it? Counselor, teacher? Does she have a friend she can confide in if she is scared?


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## amma_mama (May 20, 2008)

I would not harp on the fact that she will be sleeping "alone" that one night, especially if she is otherwise eager to go. In any case, she will be with friends and other known adults will be close by, so not exactly the same as sleeping in a big room by yourself. If she is just nervous, but not panicked about it, I would just focus on all the great things she will get to do at the camp. She just might surprise you (and herself). If she does want to talk about it, get down to what her exact fears are so that you can address those, rather than the "general" idea of sleeping alone. And let her know that it is only for the one night and she can come back to your bed when she comes home.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

I expect that she won't be the first child who is a little lonely, homesick or scared at bedtime at the camp. Even if the other children have been used to sleeping alone, bedtime problems occur pretty often at sleep-away camps.

I would speak to the school and teachers/camp counsellors about your concerns and ask how they handle lonely children at bedtime.

You can try some of the techniques parents use for separation anxiety during the first days of school. Give her a special comfort object to hang onto at bedtime, and maybe a letter to read or a recording of your voice (unless you think that will make her even more homesick).

When she has tried to sleep alone, has it been in a room by herself? I imagine at camp she will be in a cabin or tent with several other children and possibly a teacher/counsellor. It isn't quite the same as being in bed with mom and dad, but it isn't the same as being entirely alone in a room either. If she's slept in a bunk bed, it won't be too different.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ASusan* 
She's 8. She wants to go. I think she understands the consequences of choosing to go - she has to sleep alone. If she can't sleep, she'll have a rough night. Children act very differently in different contexts and different people. My son is capable of falling asleep on his own at daycare. At home? No way.

Chances are, they won't get much sleep anyway! Or, they will be so worn out that they will all sleep easily and soundly. If she is uncomfortable, is there someone she can go to to talk about it? Counselor, teacher? Does she have a friend she can confide in if she is scared?

Dd has never been able to fall asleep without us in the room. She is a horrible sleeper and always has been. When she was small, her sleep cycles were 37 minutes and if I wasn't there with my breast ready to nurse her back to sleep, she would cry and not go back to sleep. That was the only time I ever tried to let her cry herself back to sleep and it was so horrible for both of us, I swore I'd never do it again. Even now she doesn't STTN and reaches for me in the middle of the night... if dh or I are not in bed, she's wide awake trying to find us.

Her best friend is in another class and will not be in the same cabin as her. It might be a good idea for me to see if they can't make an exception and put her in with her best friend, though. Thanks for that suggestion.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amma_mama* 
I would not harp on the fact that she will be sleeping "alone" that one night, especially if she is otherwise eager to go. In any case, she will be with friends and other known adults will be close by, so not exactly the same as sleeping in a big room by yourself. If she is just nervous, but not panicked about it, I would just focus on all the great things she will get to do at the camp. She just might surprise you (and herself). If she does want to talk about it, get down to what her exact fears are so that you can address those, rather than the "general" idea of sleeping alone. And let her know that it is only for the one night and she can come back to your bed when she comes home.

I haven't harped on the fact that she'll sleep alone. I've been stressing that it will be like camping. She loves it when we go camping, but her nighttime fears definitely trump any daytime enjoyment. She is stressed about this, and I'm stressed trying to find a good solution. I think she should go. I won't disrespect her needs, though. I hope you're right and that she'll surprise us both if she goes. She won't even spend the night in my mom's room, though, so I'm not holding out hope.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ollyoxenfree* 
I expect that she won't be the first child who is a little lonely, homesick or scared at bedtime at the camp. Even if the other children have been used to sleeping alone, bedtime problems occur pretty often at sleep-away camps.

I would speak to the school and teachers/camp counsellors about your concerns and ask how they handle lonely children at bedtime.

You can try some of the techniques parents use for separation anxiety during the first days of school. Give her a special comfort object to hang onto at bedtime, and maybe a letter to read or a recording of your voice (unless you think that will make her even more homesick).

When she has tried to sleep alone, has it been in a room by herself? I imagine at camp she will be in a cabin or tent with several other children and possibly a teacher/counsellor. It isn't quite the same as being in bed with mom and dad, but it isn't the same as being entirely alone in a room either. If she's slept in a bunk bed, it won't be too different.

She has tried to sleep alone on a camp bed in our room. She hasn't been able to do that. She DOES sleep alone in the top bunk camping, though. She will be with other children. I hope I can get her in with her best friend as a pp suggested.

Great ideas... thanks everyone. Just talking about it make me feel better about encouraging her to go.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

a) it's one night, if she doesn't sleep well she will manage and b) it's camp with a bunch of other kids, they will probably chatter and giggle til some ridiculous hour anyway, and then sleep from sheer exhaustion.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calidris* 
a) it's one night, if she doesn't sleep well she will manage and b) it's camp with a bunch of other kids, they will probably chatter and giggle til some ridiculous hour anyway, and then sleep from sheer exhaustion.

Thanks for the reply.

One night, yes, but if it's traumatic for her, then how will it go when she has to do it next year, and the next year? Better to have her feel confident about going the first time so that she doesn't have fears later. That's what I'm thinking, anyway.

Unfortunately, they won't get to stay up and chat. It's not going to be quite like summer camp in that respect... more strict. And I don't think they'll let dd sleep with a friend if she gets scared. She doesn't have a lovey or anything she sleeps with (except mom and dad).

I want dd to have a realistic expectation and be able to accept the trip on her own terms. I don't want to ruin it for future years, IYKWIM.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Thanks for the reply.

One night, yes, but if it's traumatic for her, then how will it go when she has to do it next year, and the next year? Better to have her feel confident about going the first time so that she doesn't have fears later. That's what I'm thinking, anyway.

Unfortunately, they won't get to stay up and chat. It's not going to be quite like summer camp in that respect... more strict. And I don't think they'll let dd sleep with a friend if she gets scared. She doesn't have a lovey or anything she sleeps with (except mom and dad).

I want dd to have a realistic expectation and be able to accept the trip on her own terms. I don't want to ruin it for future years, IYKWIM.

I think that if you drill in reality to much she will be scared to go and have a hard time seeing the fun side of sleeping at the school and it will do more damage than if you try to talk about the sleep over as positive. This is a big adjustment for you, it is hard when kids sleep over somewhere else for the first time. I think you need to be careful to just tell her what the sleeping arrangements will be then help her plan for how she will help herself be happy for the one night. Try not to let your sadness and worry overshadow her excitement.


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## lotusdebi (Aug 29, 2002)

Maybe you and she can pick out a special stuffed animal to be her "lovey" for this trip. Something she can hold onto, cuddle up with, and whisper her fears to.


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## 34me (Oct 2, 2006)

Have you discussed her night time issues with the teacher at all? Is there anyway you could pick up late at night and drop off early morning? Sorry you (and she) are having so much anxiety. My ds went on a trip in 3rd grade for 4 days with school. Only about 2/3 of the kids went due to the length. Now in 5th grade, they all went for 5 days.


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## HappyMommy2 (Jan 27, 2007)

Does the school need volunteer chaperones for this trip? Maybe you could do that...?


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Could you do something like send along a portable CD player with some soothing, familiar music, or a relaxation or story cd? Would it be helpful to have something from you with her? A recorded message for night time, a letter to read?

I really get this. My dd is older, but really stresses about overnights. It produces a lot of anxiety. If she's motivated to stay overnight she'll often keep herself awake the entire night. I didn't mind so much when she was younger, but now I think that there are implications, socially as well as for other interesting opportunities.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

My anxiety from this only comes because she has been talking about it a lot and when she does, she is wringing her hands and acting very agitated. I *WANT* her to go. Dh and I have not had an entire night in our bed together for over 8 years now... believe me... I WANT this to happen and am trying to handle this in absolutely the best way possible for it to happen.

They are talking about it at school a lot. For some kids, this is the first time camping and others are scared about that aspect of it (not dd, though, as we camp a few times a year, primitive and in cabins). I don't bring the subject of the trip up unless dd does and then I calmly try to just tell her that it will be just like when we go cabin camping, except there will be other adults instead of us. The trip is in 3 weeks, though and they are talking about it more and more. It's making dd more and more anxious.

Unfortunately, her beloved teacher that would be a huge comfort to her will not be in the same cabin. It's a male teacher and he will be with the boys. Her cabin "mother" will be the French teacher (dd is in Spanish immersion) and dd says she is a strict teacher. I think that has her worried as well. Dd is a very loving, hugging, gentle personality. She's not really sensitive, but speaking harshly to her makes her feel isolated and vulnerable. This teacher is not known for gentle understanding. I can imagine, if dd is really scared, that she would just spend her night crying quietly under the covers and not saying anything. No matter what circumstances or what age, I would NEVER want my child to have to go through that.

I don't know why I'm explaining all that. Just that this will be her very first time away from home. She will not have a trip to the grandparents or a sleepover at a friend's or a night at her cousins' under her belt, so this will be a HUGE leap for her and I want to make sure it's a great experience.

It sounds like most people think I should just make her go even if she is apprehensive about it.

I like the idea of buying a lovey specially for this trip. I think we'll do that.

Again, I appreciate the replies. I realize that people with older kids, even if they co-slept when they were younger, probably cannot imagine what an 8 yo is still doing co-sleeping. Maybe I'll post this in the family bed forum. I know there are some people there still co-sleeping at this age. The camp itself is not a problem at all... it's just those dark hours and if you're afraid of the dark, you're afraid of the dark. Heck, *I* don't like sleeping alone.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

Okay, here's what I would do. I have an anxious 3rd grader and we've got an overnight school trip coming up this year, too.

First, does she have her own bed? Try lying down with her in her own bed (we recently got a bunk with a double on the bottom just for this reason) to get her to sleep. After she's asleep, having told her about this ahead of time, make your break for your room or wherever else in the house you want to go. Be sure to tell her ahead of time that you might get up out of the bed and she is welcome to come find you. You want her to have some success in sleeping alone, but you don't want it to be a big "you have to sleep in your own bed" thing. She is welcome to come crawl in bed with you. When you've had some success with that and she is sleeping some amount of time on her own in her own bed then proceed to step 2 - the sleep-over!

Do you think the best friend's parents would be up for a couple of sleep-overs? I'd start by having the best friend come over to your house for a sleep-over and see how that goes. You can still lie down in dd's bed or read them a story or whatever seems best. You could let them both come sleep with you if needed.

After some success with best friend sleeping at your house, try moving it to the best friend's house. Let the parents know that they can call you if necessary. If it seems like dd needs that reassurance, too, you can tell her that as well, but if it seems like that's just going to make her want to call then maybe hold off on planting that seed.

With all those successes under her belt see how she feels about the camp now. If she feels successful at sleeping without you then chances are she'll be fine and ready to go.

hth


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HappyMommy2* 
Does the school need volunteer chaperones for this trip? Maybe you could do that...?

No, teachers only.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beanma* 
First, does she have her own bed? Try lying down with her in her own bed (we recently got a bunk with a double on the bottom just for this reason) to get her to sleep.

After some success with best friend sleeping at your house, try moving it to the best friend's house. Let the parents know that they can call you if necessary. If it seems like dd needs that reassurance, too, you can tell her that as well, but if it seems like that's just going to make her want to call then maybe hold off on planting that seed.

With all those successes under her belt see how she feels about the camp now. If she feels successful at sleeping without you then chances are she'll be fine and ready to go.

hth

Thanks. Yes, I've tried putting her to bed in her own bedroom (which she's had since she was born). She won't go to sleep. Hours and hours. Even in our bed, she takes 1 - 2 hours to go to sleep... always has. But in her own bed, it's even longer.

IRT the sleepover at the best friend's house... the friend doesn't do sleepovers either. It may be because of how far we live from each other... almost 2 hours. We live an hour from the school and the best friend lives on the opposite side of the city. They don't even have playdates but once or twice a year and only in the summer because they live so far from each other.

We have asked dd if she would spend the night with *my* best friend, though, who lives next door. She is a bit older than me, childless, in her 50's, very loving with dd and only 50 yards away. Dd *is* considering that as an experiment. We're still negotiating.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karne* 
Could you do something like send along a portable CD player with some soothing, familiar music, or a relaxation or story cd? Would it be helpful to have something from you with her? A recorded message for night time, a letter to read?

I really get this. My dd is older, but really stresses about overnights. It produces a lot of anxiety. If she's motivated to stay overnight she'll often keep herself awake the entire night. I didn't mind so much when she was younger, but now I think that there are implications, socially as well as for other interesting opportunities.

Thanks, that's a good idea. I'll see if they will allow it.


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## amma_mama (May 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
My anxiety from this only comes because she has been talking about it a lot and when she does, she is wringing her hands and acting very agitated. I *WANT* her to go. Dh and I have not had an entire night in our bed together for over 8 years now... believe me... I WANT this to happen and am trying to handle this in absolutely the best way possible for it to happen.

They are talking about it at school a lot. For some kids, this is the first time camping and others are scared about that aspect of it (not dd, though, as we camp a few times a year, primitive and in cabins). I don't bring the subject of the trip up unless dd does and then I calmly try to just tell her that it will be just like when we go cabin camping, except there will be other adults instead of us. The trip is in 3 weeks, though and they are talking about it more and more. It's making dd more and more anxious.

Unfortunately, her beloved teacher that would be a huge comfort to her will not be in the same cabin. It's a male teacher and he will be with the boys. Her cabin "mother" will be the French teacher (dd is in Spanish immersion) and dd says she is a strict teacher. I think that has her worried as well. Dd is a very loving, hugging, gentle personality. She's not really sensitive, but speaking harshly to her makes her feel isolated and vulnerable. This teacher is not known for gentle understanding. I can imagine, if dd is really scared, that she would just spend her night crying quietly under the covers and not saying anything. No matter what circumstances or what age, I would NEVER want my child to have to go through that.

I don't know why I'm explaining all that. Just that this will be her very first time away from home. She will not have a trip to the grandparents or a sleepover at a friend's or a night at her cousins' under her belt, so this will be a HUGE leap for her and I want to make sure it's a great experience.

*It sounds like most people think I should just make her go even if she is apprehensive about it.*

I like the idea of buying a lovey specially for this trip. I think we'll do that.

Again, I appreciate the replies. I realize that people with older kids, even if they co-slept when they were younger, probably cannot imagine what an 8 yo is still doing co-sleeping. Maybe I'll post this in the family bed forum. I know there are some people there still co-sleeping at this age. The camp itself is not a problem at all... it's just those dark hours and if you're afraid of the dark, you're afraid of the dark. Heck, *I* don't like sleeping alone.

I would never force my child either. It sounded from your first post that did want to go to the camp but was "nervous" about sleeping away from home. If she is so scared that she does not want to go after all, I would not push her to go either. It is not a one-off experience - she will have other chances at sleepovers and camping when she is ready. I would really leave the decision up to her then and let her know that you support whatever choice she makes.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

I'm kind of confused about what your dd's feelings are here. You say you don't want to force her, but you also said she really wants to go, and yet she is stressed.

What does she say about the trip? I agree that you shouldn't force her. But there is a difference between forcing and allowing her to go, even though she has some apprehensiveness about it.

What is the ratio of eager to apprehensive?

Personally, I think you should let her go if she wants to, talk a little about what she's going to do to get through the night, and then not make a big deal about it.

I agree with pp who said that kids act in very surprising ways when they are away from the family and home. She may well be just fine.


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## amcal (Jan 13, 2003)

Oh Mama, I just wanted to say that I understand completely! My 7 and 8 yos are still in our bed. The 7 yo would move if the 8 yo would go with her but, the 8 yo is absolutely not ready.

I understand where you're coming from. My 8 yo would really want to go too but the sleeping thing would cause her a lot of worry and anxiety as it got closer and closer.

For us though, we wouldn't allow a trip where parents weren't allowed. It would just never happen. I don't see how they can tell you that you must allow them to take your child and you're not permitted to go.

Can you go just on your own? Not as part of the group? For me, I just don't believe in sleeping away from your family so this would not fly with me. But, you have to do what's right for your family. But, I do get where you're worried about her reaction to sleeping away from you.

Hope you find a happy solution!


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
One night, yes, but if it's traumatic for her, then how will it go when she has to do next year, and the next year?

I want dd to have a realistic expectation and be able to accept the trip on her own terms. I don't want to ruin it for future years, IYKWIM.

the thing is you dont know. neither does your dd. until she tries it. it could be a breeze. it could be traumatic. you just dont know.

seriously i think the only way of knowing is by doing in her case. the what ifs you can talk about till the cows come home but you still wont have an answer.

the key is empowering your dd. i have a 7 year old with anxiety. i know what you are talking about.

dd has surprised me quite a bit where i thought no way would she be able to pull it off. i wouldnt try to sleep alone at home. the camp would be a completely different thing.

what i try and do with my dd - since everything is scary for her - i tell her yes its going to be perhaps scary, etc, BUT remember its only for so many hours. in many many cases this has really worked well for her. not to know what 'bad' to expect but the options in case she is scared. and later i always go over how she did it, or its ok if she couldnt. she could try it again later.

dd is really, really scared of the dark. one night while camping she chose to wait in the darn night as we went back to get batteries from the car parked 10 mins walk away. even today i tell her how surprised i was that she chose that option and that she figured out a way to keep the fear at bay.

is your dd willing to give it a try? if she is - then that is 90% of the battle won.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Here's the thing... dd can't sleep alone yet.

I think it would be more helpful to her if you pivoted your thinking to "she *hasn't yet* slept alone" rather than "she *can't* sleep alone." I would give her space to grow up; right now your belief is limiting to her.

Just because someone has never done thing, it doesn't mean that they can't develop the ability to do it.

Quote:

She wants to go on this trip
This is the important part.

Quote:

I really think if she'd just go, she would have a BLAST! But I won't force her and the idea makes her very nervous.
Send her.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
One night, yes, but if it's traumatic for her, then how will it go when she has to do it next year, and the next year?

I don't think it will be it. It's one night in a cabin, and it doesn't matter if she actually ends up sleeping.

If you keep putting thing off, you make it into a bigger and bigger deal. It sounds like they have everything set up to prepare the kids for the longer trips, and this is the first step -- a warm up for the big kid stuff. Let her have the warm up.

I really think skipping the trip this year will make next year an even bigger deal.



velochic said:


> My anxiety from this only comes because she has been talking about it a lot and when she does, she is wringing her hands and acting very agitated.
> 
> it's new, it's scary. She'll have so much more self confidence once she's done it.
> 
> ...


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## mclisa (Jul 26, 2004)

If she wants to give it a try, let her go.

If she doesn't feel ready, let her stay home. Get a doctor's not excusing her. It doesn't have to say why.

And yes, next year she'll have to stay 2 nights, but she'll be another year older and more maturer.


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## starling&diesel (Nov 24, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
It sounds like most people think I should just make her go even if she is apprehensive about it.


(I wonder what kind of responses you'd get if you posted this in the Family Bed section? It does seem to have a lot to do with the family bed.)

Grade two is very, very young, and I would not be letting my daughter go on ANY overnight field trip at that age without me coming along. Absolutely not. We are a society that has proven again and again that we cannot safely take care of our children in these situations, either emotionally or physically, and that the 'trusted' adults involved may not be trustable at all. Nevermind the sleep culture of your family -- which should be respected -- but just the very nature of what they're asking from a second-grader is unrealistic.

ETA: What would I want to do? Go along with her. If not, then I don't think I could let her go.

What a difficult situation ...


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amma_mama* 
It is not a one-off experience - she will have other chances at sleepovers and camping when she is ready. *I would really leave the decision up to her then and let her know that you support whatever choice she makes*.

That's where we are right now. When she asks me questions about the trip, I just give her the info that we have. That she'll sleep in a group cabin with bunk beds, that her friends will be there, and the teachers will be there.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
I'm kind of confused about what your dd's feelings are here. You say you don't want to force her, but you also said she really wants to go, and yet she is stressed.

What does she say about the trip? I agree that you shouldn't force her. But there is a difference between forcing and allowing her to go, even though she has some apprehensiveness about it.

What is the ratio of eager to apprehensive?

She really wants the daytime activities. She LOVES camping. Eager 100% about the daytime activities... apprehensive 100% about spending the night in a bed without me there. Did I mention that she has never spend a SINGLE night alone? And she still wakes many times a night to reach for me. I haven't had a stretch of sleep more than about 2 hours in 8 years.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amcal* 
Oh Mama, I just wanted to say that I understand completely! My 7 and 8 yos are still in our bed. The 7 yo would move if the 8 yo would go with her but, the 8 yo is absolutely not ready.

I understand where you're coming from. My 8 yo would really want to go too but the sleeping thing would cause her a lot of worry and anxiety as it got closer and closer.

For us though, we wouldn't allow a trip where parents weren't allowed. It would just never happen. I don't see how they can tell you that you must allow them to take your child and you're not permitted to go.

Can you go just on your own? Not as part of the group? For me, I just don't believe in sleeping away from your family so this would not fly with me. But, you have to do what's right for your family. But, I do get where you're worried about her reaction to sleeping away from you.

Hope you find a happy solution!


Thank you for this. Sometimes I think it's hard for people to relate if their kids have been sleeping by themselves from a young age... and went to their own beds willingly. We've definitely tried many gentle ways to transition dd to her own bed, but she still just doesn't want to sleep alone. When I've tried to put her to sleep in her own room, she just won't fall asleep. When she goes to sleep in my mom's room with her, she wakes up and trudges upstairs at midnight to climb back in bed with us.

Oh, and no, we can't go separate from the group... it's not a public campgrounds.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 
I think it would be more helpful to her if you pivoted your thinking to "she *hasn't yet* slept alone" rather than "she *can't* sleep alone." I would give her space to grow up; right now your belief is limiting to her.

Just because someone has never done thing, it doesn't mean that they can't develop the ability to do it.

This is the important part.

Send her.









I don't think it will be it. It's one night in a cabin, and it doesn't matter if she actually ends up sleeping.

If you keep putting thing off, you make it into a bigger and bigger deal. It sounds like they have everything set up to prepare the kids for the longer trips, and this is the first step -- a warm up for the big kid stuff. Let her have the warm up.

I really think skipping the trip this year will make next year an even bigger deal.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
My anxiety from this only comes because she has been talking about it a lot and when she does, she is wringing her hands and acting very agitated.

it's new, it's scary. She'll have so much more self confidence once she's done it.

yes, I think it would help if had confidence in her and projected it to her, and sent her off knowing that she'll come back knowing that she is a stronger person than she thought.

If you had any doubts about her safety or the adults there, it would be different.

Sleepovers were a huge issue for my now 11 year old, too. I really get.









When our kids are little, it's the right thing for us to protect them from things that are scary to them, but as they get older it I believe it becomes our job to help them find their inner strength, and sometimes that is scary for them because they don't know if it is really in there are not. We have to see if for them and believe in them.

(I also recommend a small flash light to sleep with!)

I was trying to respond to each individual comment here, but it got too complicated. To sum it up, I pretty much disagree with everything here.

"Can't" or "Won't", just semantics and it doesn't change the way we are approaching this issue. I'm not holding her back, I'm giving her my support for whatever SHE decides, I'm not going to force her to go if she's not ready even if she just spends the whole night wide awake and frightened and makes it through. I also know that even if she made it to morning, she would not feel empowered, but feel even more apprehensive if she was not able to do it without fear (that's just her personality). She just turned 8 and I don't think that barely 8 makes one grown enough to force them to do something that they are truly terrified of. Not sleeping alone is not our choice, that is hers, in spite of all the reassuring we do that she can do it and nothing will happen. But I will respect her fears. By respecting her fears, it doesn't hold her back but *does* give her confidence. My goal is to give her tools, not just tell her to suck it up and go because it's only 1 night. I also don't think that not going this year means she'll never go. In 1 year a kid can go from never wanting to sleep alone to preferring to sleep alone. I've seen it in my own family. In fact, I've seen that pushing a kid too hard, too early has the opposite effect. I will be gentle and respectful of her whether she decides to go or not.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starling&diesel* 
(I wonder what kind of responses you'd get if you posted this in the Family Bed section? It does seem to have a lot to do with the family bed.)

Grade two is very, very young, and I would not be letting my daughter go on ANY overnight field trip at that age without me coming along. Absolutely not. We are a society that has proven again and again that we cannot safely take care of our children in these situations, either emotionally or physically, and that the 'trusted' adults involved may not be trustable at all. *Nevermind the sleep culture of your family -- which should be respected -- but just the very nature of what they're asking from a second-grader is unrealistic.*

ETA: What would I want to do? Go along with her. If not, then I don't think I could let her go.

What a difficult situation ...









Thank you. I agree. I'm fine with her going if she is comfortable with it. Actually, it would be nice if they offered a day camp first.

It's hard for people to relate when it's such a foreign concept... co-sleeping at 8... and I realize that. It may be so unique that the only thing I can do is just not ask for outside advice from people who have never been in that situation and try my best to do what we can.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Thank you. I agree. I'm fine with her going if she is comfortable with it. Actually, it would be nice if they offered a day camp first.

It's hard for people to relate when it's such a foreign concept... co-sleeping at 8... and I realize that. It may be so unique that the only thing I can do is just not ask for outside advice from people who have never been in that situation and try my best to do what we can.









I can't even imagine my 8 yo being comfortable away from me for the day let alone an overnight anywhere with anyone. I totally get the being anxious only because the child is anxious thing and do the same thing with answering questions matter of factly without feeding the anxiety. Anyway, it sounds like your dd is slightly closer to being ready for this step than my ds. I obviously can't give you advice but I know my guy finds glow sticks comforting at night. He would also be reassured if he knew he could contact me if he wanted. Are cell phones allowed?


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
I By respecting her fears, it doesn't hold her back but *does* give her confidence. My goal is to give her tools, not just tell her to suck it up and go because it's only 1 night.

Letting a child do something *they want to do* and encouraging by telling them that you believe they are strong enough to do is not telling them to *suck it up*.

It is possible to gently encourage children to find their strength. Courage is being afraid and doing something anyway.

There is a path here that you aren't seeing.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zinemama* 
I'm kind of confused about what your dd's feelings are here. You say you don't want to force her, but you also said she really wants to go, and yet she is stressed.









I really do understand where you are coming from.

First, how does your DD deal with anxiety? For some children, talking and talking about their fears actually lessens them over time as they have opportunity to think them through. For others, each discussion actually increases their fears. I consider my children to generally fit in the first category, but we have a close friend who is definately in the latter. Eventually, with her you just have to say, "We're not going to discuss that now" and move on.

I would have *one* very serious talk with DD and determine if she wants to go or not (not "wants" as in thinks she would enjoy it, but "wants" as in that is her final decision). If she says no then I would start getting my ducks in a row to allow her to skip it. If she says yes, I would try to stop talking about it as much and go forward with the assumption she WILL go and WILL enjoy it.

Now, DD is 11 and generally does not sleep in her bed all night. Only within the past 1.5 years has she been able to go to sleep reliably by herself (in our bed or her bed, without a parent cuddling her as she falls asleep). She still prefers sleeping with a parent to get to sleep. That said, she goes on overnights fairly successfully. BUT, I think she was in 3rd grade before she actually made it through the night. Before that there were attempts and middle of the night pick ups. When she was 7 I would not have sent her into the situation you are descibing unless it was near enough for me to pick her up in the middle of the night OR the school would have accepted me taking her home to sleep. It would have definately been too stressful. Now, she would be stressed and scared about an overnight camp but I would definately have her go because I am fairly certain she would be sucessful.

Could DD take a flashlight and read in her sleeping bag? Would that be okay?


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## swisscanmom (Aug 29, 2007)

I wonder, will there be another female teacher in the cabin? I find it odd that they would only have one teacher in with the kids. Maybe there is a 2nd teacher that is more approachable. Can you approach the teacher and just let her know that you are expecting dd to have some difficulty with sleeping on her own. Maybe the teacher is not a strict and warmer than she seems.


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

I can't imagine the teacher not nurturing a scared child in the middle of the night. Second graders are still very young children.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Again, dd wants to go for the daytime activities, but the nighttime is what has her stressed. She really wants to go and have fun with her friends, but wants to sleep in bed with us at home.

That is the long and short of it. It's pretty simple. I don't know how to explain it so that "wanting" to go and "being scared" to go is understandable to coexist at the same time for her. I think most people have things the "want" to do, but don't have the courage to do it because there's one element that holds them back.

As for how she handles anxiety... other than sleeping alone, she doesn't have any anxiety about anything (at least, I wouldn't label it as "anxiety"... she does sometimes worry about something, but it's short-lived). She's a very independent and adventurous child with nerves of steel and 'go-get-em' attitude. She'll do anything from jump in the deep end to ride a roller coaster to try a new food to enter a race just for the fun of it. She is a completely confident child and doesn't have any problems with any transition at all. She's never even had a temper tantrum in her life because she just adapts to well to new situations. She's a cool cucumber.

But this is one thing that she is troubled about, which is why I'm treading lightly to make sure that the next time she is faced with this situation, she approaches it like she does the tallest roller coasters at the amusement park - with confidence and not with memories of being terrified in the middle of the night because she wasn't prepared.

She will have a teacher she doesn't know in the cabin with her. She is the French teacher. As I said before, this teacher is known for being strict and not "touchy-feely" like dd is. It would not be a far reach to think that the teacher would yell at dd for being scared rather than nurturing her.

I will have to ask if a flashlight is allowed. I'm not sure about that. I know electronics are not allowed (cell, MP3, etc.)


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

I hear what you're saying. I used to get homesick as a child. I WANTED to do sleepovers. I also got scared when it was time to go to sleep. I was the kid who got so homesick at overnight camp that I had to come home. I get it.

I can't see requiring a second grader to do an overnight. Especially a school where I pay tuition. If it were my child, in the situation you described, I would pick up my daughter at bedtime. If I got there and she wanted to stay, fine, but the plan would be that I picked her up.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
That is the long and short of it. It's pretty simple. I don't know how to explain it so that "wanting" to go and "being scared" to go is understandable to coexist at the same time for her. I think most people have things the "want" to do, but don't have the courage to do it because there's one element that holds them back.

I really do understand because DD had this exact issue with overnights. She truly wanted to go. It sounded like fun. The other kids thought it was fun. She tried to go several times. Then she decided she would just rather come home and not try (so go to the party until like 11pm) because she was getting embarrased. Then she went to a party and I planned on picking her up at midnight unless she called (she was in 4th grade, thinking about it) and she called and said she didn't want picked up (which had happened before) but... she stayed the night. Basically since then she has not had a problem. She was very proud and satisfied with herself. But she was also 9, not 7.

Is there any way DD can call you during the night if she changes her mind? What would she prefer. Sometimes DD wanted to plan on staying (unless she called me) and sometimes she wanted to plan on going home (unless she called me). Either way I encouraged her to bring something to read just in case she was up later than the other kids. Of course, I picked her up today at 11:30 from an overnight and she had not slept AT ALL so she is napping right now


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I used to be a camp counsellor, and I was also the child who desperately WANTED to go on sleepovers and COMPLETELY HATED them (at people's houses). (I still do. I will drive home at 3 am, thanks. Weirdly I love hotels and camping.)

Anyways, I'd recommend trying it.

I don't think as a worst case scenario the trauma of it will pooch her potential forever, as long as IF she does experience trauma you are understanding, give her ample room and time to process, and talk about how she's only 7 and things will change. I had horrendous sleepover experiences but I also had good ones and the best was that after a few bad ones I knew I could make it through if I really wanted to. I like having the choice. Even though I still hate them overall.









To avoid the worst-case scenario though I like ideas like loveys and music and even trial runs (although remember the trial can be worse than the actual one, because kids are sometimes weirdly soothed by having their friends doing the same thing).

Other things: Bring a favourite picture, pillowcase, bracelet that reminds her that she's safe and coming home soon. Tactile stuff is especially good at night. One trick that works with children as well as dogs is to send her with a t-shirt of yours to sleep in that you've slept in the night before or sprayed with your perfume.

Plan something to do after the event that she can look forward to.

I'd also talk to your daughter a bit about what she'll do in various cases...

"What if I have to go to the bathroom at night?"
"What if I can't sleep?" (Does she read? Can she take a flashlight and a favourite book?)
"What if I'm scared?" (wake the teacher, have a "bravery bracelet" to hold onto)

Also determine at which point you'll come get her, and make sure the teacher/leader is aware that you expect that you would be able to do so. You could also ask how they've handled that in the past. I would not, myself, recommend that you come to the camp to check in and leave if she's ok, because that 'second leaving' is often what triggers the worst homesickness.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

Velochic, I understand what you're saying and also what some of the other posters are saying.

It does seem like your dd, brave and fearless though she may be by light of day, has some real anxiety about nightime sleeping. The main thing that I have gleaned through tons of reading and real life experience with a kid who has tendencies toward anxiety is that it's a lot like balancing on a tightrope.

Throwing an anxious kid in the lake and telling them to sink or swim is just a recipe for disaster. An anxious kid is likely to be scared of water for life after that.

But likewise, letting an anxious child engage in avoidant behaviors and never go near the water is also likely to result in a kid who is afraid of water for life. Avoiding the anxiety provoking situation does nothing to abate the anxiety and, in fact, makes it worse.

If an anxious kid can put a toe in and test the waters and feel good about herself that she faced this fear and did that much then you've made progress and can continue to work on it.

The tricky thing about this campout situation is there's not much of a way to put a toe in the water on the campout itself. Sometimes an anxious kid does need a little push to get her over the hump as long as it's not a sink-or-swim-throw-'em-in-the-lake situation, but what's sink-or-swim for one anxious kid can just be the little nudge that another one needs. It's all, obviously, very individual.

Velochic, I think you're the only one who can read whether sending her on the campout is throwing her in the lake or whether it's the nudge she needs so that she doesn't engage in avoidant behavior and make her anxiety worse.

If you can think of some way to let her put her toe in the water ahead of time that would be ideal, but I don't know if you can come up with anything in your situation. A camp out in the backyard with a friend would be great, but it doesn't sound like that's really super practical right now.

Hope you can figure it all out.


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## amma_mama (May 20, 2008)

I don't see it as an "anxiety" issue in the classical sense that she either has to face it or she is avoiding life situations. She is 7 - this is a normal fear, even for non co-sleeping kids. She will outgrow it at some point. I see it as whether to encourage her to do something that *she* is ready for (but just a bit nervous) or trying to get her to do something that is beyond her current developmental age. Yes, some 7 year olds would do great and would not give it a second thought or just need some extra encouragement. Others are just not ready. That is not a bad thing, that is recognition of their true developmental age.

It is not simply about being up all night and reading a book, if it does not go well. It is potentially about a child's mind racing and heart pounding for 8 hours, feeling alone though surrounded by a dozen others, without a way of reaching out to the one or two people that can support her. Too fearful to sleep and too fearful to approach the only adult available. That cannot be a good combo if she is that anxious.

That said, the decision should be hers to make. If she decides to go, then you work on the tools she needs to succeed. If not, again, it is not a one-off experience that she will never have another shot at when she is developmentally ready for it. I don't think that it is wise to make a child "face a fear" for a fear that is developmentally appropriate.

Velochic, if there is anyway that you can arrange for her to go during the day and pick her up later, I would try to arrange it. I don't know how far the camp is and whether you can just take her home and bring her back in the morning. If not, is there a motel you could stay in close by to spend the night together? I would do my best to find a way for her to participate in the daytime activities so she does not miss out on that.


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## Needle in the Hay (Sep 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amma_mama* 

That said, the decision should be hers to make. If she decides to go, then you work on the tools she needs to succeed. If not, again, it is not a one-off experience that she will never have another shot at when she is developmentally ready for it. I don't think that it is wise to make a child "face a fear" for a fear that is developmentally appropriate.


I completely agree with this and it seems the OP is going to follow her dd's lead on this, which is great, imo.

Velochic, my DS is 8.5 and we still more or less co-sleep. We never totally did the family bed thing--now and then he'll have a little phase of sleeping in our bed all night, but usually I lie down with him after we read and stay until he's asleep (or longer if I've fallen asleep). If he wakes up in the night he usually comes in our bed but lately he's had a few nights where he's stayed in his bed and fallen back to sleep. So he is becoming more comfortable with that, but only just recently.

Even when his cousins were staying with us last summer and sleeping in his room he still wanted me in there while he fell asleep. He definitely wouldn't be ready for the camp situation.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Thanks everyone. We haven't really talked about it this weekend (she tends to forget about it when she's not in school and everyone is talking about it). On Friday, after school she mentioned something about it and I told her that I had talked to S., our next door neighbor and very good friend. S. said that over spring break, dd could spend the night in their spare room. I think this might be a good "test drive" for her. Dd thought it was a great idea and is looking forward to it. Of course, our neighbor is 50 yards away and camp is 4 or 5 hours away.

Dd just won't sleep anywhere other than our bed at home (not that she sleeps without us when we're on vacation or camping or visiting). What I mean is that when her cousins come over for a sleepover, they all pile into my mom's room to "camp" on the floor, and dd *never* stays. The lights go out, and she's leaving her cousins to sleep on Mom's floor while she's comfy and cozy up in our bed. She won't even sleep elsewhere when she has her cousins sleepover. I think it's a good idea to see how she does when she has to fall asleep alone in a friendly, but new place (our neighbor's). I think this will give us a good idea of how she might do.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Needle in the Hay* 
Even when his cousins were staying with us last summer and sleeping in his room he still wanted me in there while he fell asleep. He definitely wouldn't be ready for the camp situation.

Yeah, falling asleep is part of it. She still has to have someone there to fall asleep in addition to all of the other co-sleeping issues.

Man, I hope I'm not discouraging anyone from co-sleeping, because we really don't see this as an issue *at all* in normal, everyday life. It's just these one-off situations where it can confuse the issues and cause problems. We're fine with co-sleeping, still... just thought at 4yo, 5yoyo, 6, 7yo... each year that dd would finally get over that hurdle and sleep in her own bed. Maybe it's our fault because we don't push her about this. It feels right, though as part of our commitment to GD.


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## amma_mama (May 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Man, I hope I'm not discouraging anyone from co-sleeping, because we really don't see this as an issue *at all* in normal, everyday life. It's just these one-off situations where it can confuse the issues and cause problems. We're fine with co-sleeping, still... just thought at 4yo, 5yoyo, 6, 7yo... each year that dd would finally get over that hurdle and sleep in her own bed. Maybe it's our fault because we don't push her about this. It feels right, though as part of our commitment to GD.

Our DD is 5.5yo and I also never expected to be co-sleeping this long (and never expected to co-sleep when she was a baby). But here we are, doing what feels right, right now. One day (I should say night), your DD will be ready to be all on her own and ready for sleepovers.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

GuildJen - I forgot to thank you for your suggestions. I have jotted them down and will ask about them at the next informational session we have.


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## zinemama (Feb 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Man, I hope I'm not discouraging anyone from co-sleeping, because we really don't see this as an issue *at all* in normal, everyday life.

To be honest, I'm glad my co-sleeping days are done. If I was a newly pregnant woman, or toward the end, when 3yo ds was still coming into our bed (only for another month, but I didn't know that), I'd be kind of freaking out, reading this.


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## eggplant (Jun 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Thank you. I agree. I'm fine with her going if she is comfortable with it. Actually, it would be nice if they offered a day camp first.

It's hard for people to relate when it's such a foreign concept... co-sleeping at 8... and I realize that. It may be so unique that the only thing I can do is just not ask for outside advice from people who have never been in that situation and try my best to do what we can.


I don't think the responses here are necessarily due to people's not understanding the issue. Some may be, but I don't think it's useful to just dismiss them all on that basis.

FWIW, my daughter is almost nine and still co-sleeps. She has not once spent a night in her own bed. She has a few times slept with my mom instead. She has been on a few sleepovers, primarily with friends who have parents who will lie down with the kids to go to sleep and stay in the room (so, she still had an adult she knew and trusted sleeping with her).

She also went to sleepaway camp last summer for a few nights. And was fine. Nervous, and lonely at times, esp the first night, but fine, and VERY happy she did it. She clearly really really wanted to go. If she'd had a choice to do all the daytime stuff and come sleep with me at night, I'm pretty sure she'd have gone for that. But, it wasn't a choice, any more than that's a choice for your daughter, so it sort of doesn't matter if that's what she'd prefer.

For my daughter, we spoke quite a bit about the pros and cons. The bottom line was that she really really wanted to go, and was also very scared abt going and what the nighttime would be like. I saw my job as helping her with that fear so she could do the thing she really really wanted to go, and we did that in a few different ways. It helped that it was an intro to camping program, so really all or almost all of the kids were also at camp for the first time, and the counselors were well prepared for that. Which my daughter knew. I would think the same would be true for your daughter's trip, that at that age, surely for many of them it'll be their first time away from home like that, and so it's not like your daughter will stand out in that way. Further, she will be with lots of people she knows, and even if the teacher in her cabin isn't her beloved teacher, surely she will be kind and comforting to scared little kids in her care, as will all the other people around.

So, I vote that you help her to be able to go. I don't think that's the same thing at all as forcing her to go (she wants to go, but is scared), or telling her to suck it up (you'll be helping her to deal with her fears). I think it's helping her do something she wants to do, something that is also an expectation of the school you chose to enroll her in, and something that will be a continued expectation if she stays there, so starting with everyone else seems much more helpful to me than working to get her out of it now, thus potentially making next year's trip even more daunting.


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## Emmeline II (Feb 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
.

I want dd to have a realistic expectation and be able to accept the trip on her own terms. I don't want to ruin it for future years, IYKWIM.

There is a doll where a parents face is the doll's face; they are often given to children whose military parent is away. I forget what it's called...


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

velochic my dd is 7 and a sleeping velcro. when seh is with me she cosleeps, when seh is with her dad she forced him to cosleep.

however like pp said - because dd is so social and loves spending time with others she has happily slept away from me from when she was 6. we tried before and it didnt work. not even seperate bedrooms. she has been to sleepovers.

she was a little apprehensive about the camping trip as well as a trip to her cousins - being away from me for 10 days. she had never been away for more than 24 hours. i always explain to her that life is bittersweet. that you never get everything you want. that you get some and not the rest. she now believes that thru experience. at camp she was too tired to miss me and at her cousins she was having just too much fun and even cosleeping with her cousin to really feel sad or scared.

however at the same time one other little girl couldnt sleep in a tent away from her parents and had to go back there at night.

you know your dd. you know what she can do. i knew my dd could do it. she just needed to believe that she could. it may not be teh same thing in your case.

my dd is a v. touchy feely needy child. cosleeping is absolutely ESSENTIAL for her. its kinda her therapy. however she is also a party girl and she can party without me for short periods of time. she can give up her cosleeping part for a little while to be able to party.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 
the thing is you dont know. neither does your dd. until she tries it. it could be a breeze. it could be traumatic. you just dont know.

seriously i think the only way of knowing is by doing in her case. the what ifs you can talk about till the cows come home but you still wont have an answer.

the key is empowering your dd. i have a 7 year old with anxiety. i know what you are talking about.

dd has surprised me quite a bit where i thought no way would she be able to pull it off. i wouldnt try to sleep alone at home. the camp would be a completely different thing.

what i try and do with my dd - since everything is scary for her - i tell her yes its going to be perhaps scary, etc, BUT remember its only for so many hours. in many many cases this has really worked well for her. not to know what 'bad' to expect but the options in case she is scared. and later i always go over how she did it, or its ok if she couldnt. she could try it again later.

dd is really, really scared of the dark. one night while camping she chose to wait in the darn night as we went back to get batteries from the car parked 10 mins walk away. even today i tell her how surprised i was that she chose that option and that she figured out a way to keep the fear at bay.

is your dd willing to give it a try? if she is - then that is 90% of the battle won.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 
velochic my dd is 7 and a sleeping velcro. when seh is with me she cosleeps, when seh is with her dad she forced him to cosleep.

however like pp said - because dd is so social and loves spending time with others she has happily slept away from me from when she was 6. we tried before and it didnt work. not even seperate bedrooms. she has been to sleepovers.

she was a little apprehensive about the camping trip as well as a trip to her cousins - being away from me for 10 days. she had never been away for more than 24 hours. i always explain to her that life is bittersweet. that you never get everything you want. that you get some and not the rest. she now believes that thru experience. at camp she was too tired to miss me and at her cousins she was having just too much fun and even cosleeping with her cousin to really feel sad or scared.

however at the same time one other little girl couldnt sleep in a tent away from her parents and had to go back there at night.

you know your dd. you know what she can do. i knew my dd could do it. she just needed to believe that she could. it may not be teh same thing in your case.

my dd is a v. touchy feely needy child. cosleeping is absolutely ESSENTIAL for her. its kinda her therapy. however she is also a party girl and she can party without me for short periods of time. she can give up her cosleeping part for a little while to be able to party.

I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to convince me about this. I've already said that if decides to go, great. I'm not going to hold her back, for sure (I want her to go). If not, I'm not going to force her. There have been some good suggestions from this thread that I'll employ but if they don't work, they don't work, and we'll try again next year.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

I think the point that she was trying to make is that plenty of die-hard co-sleepers actually do just fine doing stuff like camping trips (and plenty of kids who sleep alone struggle with camping trips). I also don't see it as a co-sleeping issue. My kid co-slept at 8 (and for years afterwards) but also had no trouble starting to do stuff like this at 7-8ish...


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
I also don't see it as a co-sleeping issue.

In dd's case it very much *is* a co-sleeping issue, though.


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## je309 (Jun 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
I think the point that she was trying to make is that plenty of die-hard co-sleepers actually do just fine doing stuff like camping trips (and plenty of kids who sleep alone struggle with camping trips). I also don't see it as a co-sleeping issue. My kid co-slept at 8 (and for years afterwards) but also had no trouble starting to do stuff like this at 7-8ish...

I agree with this. I hope you get it all figured out. From your posts it sounds as though she wants to give this a try and I hope it's an enjoyable experience for her. Even if she's a little scared, I don't think it will scar her for life... Kids are much more resilient and can handle a lot more than we often give them credit for.


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## domesticidyll (Oct 9, 2009)

As I am writing this, my co-sleeping 6yo is sprawled across the bed, and my co-sleeping 1yo is on my lap because she will not sleep except with human contact. So... the 8yo in bed seems lovely and nurturing to me.

The idea of encouraging resilience, it makes so much sense to me as an abstract idea, but when I think about my own parenting, and even my childhood, I keep coming back to trust. When I trust my children's instincts about what they are ready for, I usually don't have regrets. That's not to say I'm right, or they are always right--there have, in hindsight, been times I waited longer than I needed to. But it was fine to wait. Whereas when I felt driven by an outside timetable, when I pushed when I was uncertain... pretty much all my regrets are from times I didn't wait longer.

Like I said, the idea of giving her wings, I hear that, but for me trusting the child's pace has been even more powerful, and I wanted to pass along a little encouragement if that is what your mama heart is telling you.

Heather


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *domesticidyll* 
As I am writing this, my co-sleeping 6yo is sprawled across the bed, and my co-sleeping 1yo is on my lap because she will not sleep except with human contact. So... the 8yo in bed seems lovely and nurturing to me.

The idea of encouraging resilience, it makes so much sense to me as an abstract idea, but when I think about my own parenting, and even my childhood, I keep coming back to trust. When I trust my children's instincts about what they are ready for, I usually don't have regrets. That's not to say I'm right, or they are always right--there have, in hindsight, been times I waited longer than I needed to. But it was fine to wait. Whereas when I felt driven by an outside timetable, when I pushed when I was uncertain... pretty much all my regrets are from times I didn't wait longer.

Like I said, the idea of giving her wings, I hear that, but for me trusting the child's pace has been even more powerful, and I wanted to pass along a little encouragement if that is what your mama heart is telling you.

Heather

Thank you very much. This really rings true for me. You've worded it beautifully.


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## honey-lilac (Jun 30, 2009)

Didn't have time to read the other replies, sorry.

I was about that age when I had to go on an overnight trip with Brownies. I didn't co-sleep but I was just not happy with the arrangement. They made food I didn't like and when I said I couldn't eat it the counselors "jokingly" made fun of me for the entire night about how spoiled I was (not to mention hungry). (Sorry, I grew up with non-American food, I didn't like American "kiddy" food!) I don't know how it's possible but everyone from the camp counselors to the other scouts (following their lead) were basically making fun of me the whole night; I didn't sleep at all. I felt so trapped because I couldn't go home then. All I wanted was to go home. I hated it and quit Brownies the next day. I didn't even want to go back to school for a long time. Was I scarred? No, but it sure wasn't a positive experience. I wasn't ready.

A few years later, I think we were 11 and in 6th grade, we had a weekend camping trip to go skiing and I had the biggest blast EVER, and so much fun. I even went to a sleepover or two in 5th grade and that was OK too. But in 2nd or 3rd grade (maybe it was even 4th, I honestly don't remember) I wasn't ready.

FWIW I also co-slept on and off until I was about 9-10 years old but that had nothing to do with when I was ready or not to overnight somewhere else. What it did have to do with was the feeling of being trapped in a place where I didn't want to be, overnight. I had looked forward to going, incidentally - it just wasn't like I expected it to be.


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## lauren (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
In dd's case it very much *is* a co-sleeping issue, though.

Though perhaps you've already gotten enough feedback, in light of this, I think I'm going to hop this over to FBNP for additional thoughts.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

I only skimmed the replies so I might have missed this. Did you ask the teacher who will be with your DD how they handle kids who get homesick in the middle of the night? With a group of second graders that has to have come up before.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I wanted to post an update. (Cross-posted in Learning at School).

It's spring break. Our next door neighbors are very good friends. I asked if dd would be willing to spend the night over there to "test the waters". It's close and she loves these people. They are really great with dd.

In a nutshell... she did it. She slept in her own bed over there, in their spare room, no problems. I didn't push her at all and when it was time to go, she was excited, slept in as usual, and went to sleep on her own. She had a lot of fun. She said she has the confidence to go to camp now. As I mentioned, I thought that this would help her, and I was right.

We had talked about her spending the night with the neighbors for about a year and this school trip really gave her the incentive to try it. I think it has empowered her... even if she is a brave little daredevil.

Thanks to all of you who were helpful and supportive. We used many ideas offered here, so it was, indeed, helpful.


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## NEastMomma (Mar 4, 2010)

Firstly, I totally understand your concerns! You know your child best and you can tell that though she wants to go, she is having some sort of apprehension.

I am a reading teacher to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd graders (2nd grade is my favorite to teach, btw). What I am anticipating is that MANY of the kids are going to have a hard time being away from family on the overnight - which is why the school is doing just one night to ease them in to the experience of foreign exchange later. Anyway, tons of these kids are going to be homesick - I will bet a million dollars on it. And I also bet the teachers are prepared for it and are expecting it too.

Additionally, as a PP said, the kids are either going to be wired and having a hard time sleeping for all their excitement and chatter, or they're going to be exhausted.

Minimizing homesickness with a short note that says "Sweet dreams! HAVE FUN! We will be there tomorrow to pick you up and give you a big hug!" or something like that might help, as would a lovey from home or even a pillowcase, etc.

Finally, as I advise everyone, TALK TO THE TEACHER and tell her about your worries! Teachers LOVE to be "on the same team" as mom and dad and she'll apppreciate you giving her the head's up so that she can be on the lookout for DD's signs of anxiety and mitigate.
If it makes you feel any better (or might make it worse), many kids have a hard time at school during the normal school day. I've had kids cry to me that they miss Mom or sister, etc. As a teacher I ask if they need a hug, I reassure them it'll be okay and that its normal to miss family, and then I distract, distract, distract and amp up my "performance" to make school extra fun for that kid. By the end of they day they've totally forgotten that they were homesick.
GOOD LUCK!!!


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## Thalia (Apr 9, 2003)

Yay, velochic! So glad your DD was able to do her 'test drive'! I wish her all the best for the real thing.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

That's awesome! I'm sure she'll be much more confident about the camp out now! Congrats Velochic and DD!


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