# Poll: What's your household income?



## TranscendentalMom (Jun 28, 2002)

Since we've been talking about how much wealth the typical AP families have - why not find out? What is your annual household income?


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Well, I voted but I'm not going to say what my vote was. When it comes to such matters, I'm not comfortable with asking or telling...


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## mirlee (Jul 30, 2002)

I voted. Let's say if you had asked me this two years ago, I would have had to answer nearly double what I did. Since dh lost his job and just does a teeny teeny bit of consulting, our income level is basically my salary.

I heard on the news last night that nearly 1 million people are out of work and at least another million have actually given up looking for work. Things aren't so good these days.


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## Marlena (Jul 19, 2002)

I know quite well what it's like to live on an income of under $10,000 per year, but that's nowhere close to what our present income is anymore!


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

I voted, but I also don't "earn and tell!"


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## Starfire (Jun 26, 2002)

I would love to see or ask for the people willing to tell what they earn, what the cities cost of living where you live?

For instance i make $34,000 a year, and Dp watches kids and works pt and brings in $6-7,000/yr, but cost of living here is on the higher end. Not as high as LA or some where bigger but higher. Three bedrooms here go for $1,200 a month and the cheap end would be $950.00.

I just like to see that because some one could "look" like they made a lot of money when really they have no Extra money.

We figured out that in order to have $200 a month to spend on food, movies, going out, or whatever our combined income would have to get upto $52,000.00 a year because of car insurance, mortgage, heat, water, bills, and every thing else you pay monthy, costs so much here.


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## Starfire (Jun 26, 2002)

I would love to see or ask for the people willing to tell what they earn, what the cities cost of living where you live?

For instance i make $34,000 a year, and Dp watches kids and works pt and brings in $6-7,000/yr, but cost of living here is on the higher end. Not as high as LA or some where bigger but higher. Three bedrooms here go for $1,200 a month and the cheap end would be $950.00.

I just like to see that because some one could "look" like they made a lot of money when really they have no Extra money.

We figured out that in order to have $200 a month to spend on food, movies, going out, or whatever our combined income would have to get upto $52,000.00 a year because of car insurance, mortgage, heat, water, bills, and every thing else you pay monthy, costs so much here.


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## Bladestar5 (Jan 5, 2003)

I just hope those of you who are making above $50,000. are being responsible with your money. I cannot talk for anyone else, but I would definitely have better living conditions and food if we made that much. Hopefully once dh takes over his dad's business, we will be financially stable and have some money for extras. I have learned some good things from being poor. Material belongings are WAY overrated, and there is always somebody more poor than you. We are in the 20,000.+ category, although we barely make above 20, but dh is getting even better pay than some others we know. Vermont's economy sucks right now.


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Blade...
I can assure you, we are being responsible with our money. Our living conditions are very nice, we have a great house. Our income also affords us reliable vehicles and private school for our youngest.

like alot of folks though, its not like we are rolling in dough. we have mortgage payments, car payments etc. not a whole lot left over and i still have to watch what i spend.


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## bamboogrrrl (Apr 16, 2002)

I'm seeing an interesting disconnect in the information between this poll (which basically says that over 60% of people on this board earn $50,000 or more), and the thread about AP parents being low income.

It seems like the FACT is, that much of the board is financially comfortable (whether we live within our means is another story - and of course 50k in NYC is different than 50K in Lawrence, KS). But the FEELING is that AP parents are generally lower income (probably because in so many cases one parent works outside of the home fulltime and there is so little support in this country for choosing to be an "underconsumer" and SAHP).


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## TranscendentalMom (Jun 28, 2002)

The thing is that if you don't make $50,000 plus it sounds like a lot but when you do it doesn't *feel* like a lot - not for a family of three or more. I wouldn't judge the way any people spend their money because everyone is rich relative to someone else. People in Africa think $400 a year is a lot and look at ANYONE in America as rich even if they only make $15,000 a year!


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## oatmeal (Nov 15, 2002)

I gotta say, where I live in California $50,000 with kids in the house is a pittance. Going out at that eschelon is a luxury and people with that income here think 3x times going out to a $15 movie. We were lucky to get a 2 bedroom house which we share with a roommate for $1800, that's unheard of...

I think the perspective has to be where we live, not just what we make. If I made 50K in Arizona or Kansas I'd probably be in a diferent category that here where the debris meets the sea.


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## Carla (Feb 5, 2003)

I can appreciate the etiquitte rules regarding this subject, but I also think its great to get this out on the table. This causes so much judgement and bad feelings between people.

That said, if you would have told me when I was 18 what my future husband would be making I would have celebrated, but the reality is living in Denver, that got us a modest 3 bedroom home, one car and our luxuries were that we contributed monthly to our retirement and childrens college savings, I stayed home and we could buy organic. We didn't suffer but we watched what we spent to avoid debt. I realize many people can't even have what we did and I'm extremely grateful.

We recently moved to northern Michigan to raise our kids close to family and in a more rural environment. It's somewhat cheaper but very much a summer resort getaway feeling which drives prices up. Average price of 3 bedroom home around 150,000 - 200,000. Unless you can see the water, then add more zeros...







:


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## MysticHealerMom (Oct 7, 2002)

along the lines of making life choices (or sacrafices, but I don't consider it that, some might) we drastically changed our lives and are now living on 70% _less_ than we were. That includes my whole salary and a chunk of dh's. Priorities are different. I know we could not have AP'd (w/a sahp) in our previous lifestyle b/c at that rate we were living paycheck to paycheck. Now we're quite comfortable. And scaling back all the time. It's a much more reasonable life and even if it didn't include the tenanats of AP and natural family living, it coincides with my spritual path, if you will, and eliminating areas of affluence and desire that really have little to do with AP choices, only. But have a lot to do with my and dh's growth and humanity. And, I think it will make us better parents.

So, in a sense, we're "poorer" b/c we're fitting into the AP lifestyle, but we're much better off b/c we have less debt and are no longer slaves to the economy, etc.


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## Bladestar5 (Jan 5, 2003)

I didn't mean to be judgemental about those with more money than us, and I realize that 50,000. is not alot depending on where you live, but I am talking about those where it IS alot. Right now, if we were making that kind of money, it would mean a livable house with windows that didn't have a breeze coming through in 0degrees weather. It would mean clothes that actually fit me. I guess I could give up internet, but then I would REALLY have no outlet. Just talking on here gets my mind off the stresses of our lives.
But, that being said, I think it would be good for EVERYONE to be poor, just once, and for a few months. It really puts things into perspective.


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## mom2connor (Mar 5, 2002)

I live in NYC and am a single mom and make about $32,000 a year...We barely get by. Rent here is insane.. My ds is in a private nursery school on scholarship (his tutiion would be $15,700 if we paid the full amount)

I think it is all very realtive to location. While we struggle here, we would probably do quite well in another area of the country. Something I need to consider..

peace mamas...


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

"ours"
X amount of what is actually on the w-2 is dh's business trips that HIS co sends him on
They get a tax break by not claiming it and we get stuck in a higher bracket than we truly are
Personally we would love to have that "extra" income LOL
However Dh worked his butt off for many years to get where we are today and we came up from squeaking to make it to here..
That said we are not rich by any means but comfortable enough for me to stay home with the kiddos
(which with my health problems is a good thing I could never remain employed at this point )


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## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

We made 34K last year for a fam of 3, of which about 25 in the first half and then I lost my job. The first 6 months were the richest of our lifes in financial terms, and we really enjoyed a while of healthcare and a trip to the inlaws that ddidn't have to go on the credit card.

We would get by just fine on 2.5K a month in one of the most expensive parts of the country, but never owned a car, rented cheap, and never buy home stuff or new clothes. Now we have to move out of SoCal because we can't afford it anymore.

I don't see myself ever thinking that 50K is very modest, but then owning a house and/or multiple vehicles in an urban area. However, I'm truly happy for those of you that do. I'm esp happy that some mdc parents are in the high income classes, it goes to prove to me that not all rich people are bad







(I'm not being flippant here).

I've been in poor countries. I'm not poor, but I sure have to feel guilty about having highspeed internet now that dh lost his websurfing gig and we don't really need it anymore.

I don't know the ethnicities of the posters here. But I'm white, and I know that down here I'm one of the poorest white people I know, while many AfrAm's and Hispanics are way worse off than me. This country has a long way to go.


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## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Well, the salary is dh's, not mine, so I didn't feel comfortable telling, but I will say that I am one of those people who lives in a location where supporting a wife and child on $50,000 a year would be tough. Our income is in the six figures, but the median home price in our area is more than double dh's yearly salary before taxes - and that is not for a McMansion, trust me. Even apartment rentals, of which there are not many (most residences here are private, single-family homes), are very expensive - a two-bedroom in a middle-class neighborhood is $2000 a month on average. Dd goes to a parent co-op preschool, which is a good deal cheaper than the rest of the preschools - and it is still $3700 a year.

I understand that people have a choice about where to live, but you know how it is - you grow up in an area, you have family and friends, and that's where you stay...


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

Just wanted to point out that salaries often reflect location, too. The salaries offered in my DH's field are typically six figures in expensive cities like Boston or San Francisco, but in Pittsburgh they would be about $30K/year less.


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## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

"Rich" mamas, please don't make excuses for yourself! Be happy that you're successful, and that you can afford stuff! You are the ones that can buy everything organic and environmentally correct, who can support all these "green" companies that need it.

Remember, poverty is the problem. Having enough money to live comfortably is the ideal, not something to be ashamed of!

If I had 4 times the money I do now, I would be a little embarrassed I guess, but mostly very happy and generous!


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## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

HEY Bamboogirl---

Why do you point out Lawrence, Kansas? That is where *I* am! Do you have some sort of connection here?

We live on a little over $50,000--and 5 years ago I would have thought it heaven, but we barely make ends meet. Owning a home can be pricey, and if you want to buy a home under 100,000 in this town, you need to be prepared to do some serious renovation. I'm not talking a big house, either--we live in 850 square feet, two bedroom, one bath, pretty basic.

We, too, have extremely drafty windows...we are waiting to have enough accumulated in our account to buy new windows, then install them ourselves. Hopefully by spring break. Our roof leaks, and we have also been accumulating money to fix that. But, since the drought this summer, our foundation has shifted, and now we have big cracks in our walls. So suddenly $50,000 doesn't seem like alot, when you are looking at foundation repair! I communte, so I have to have a good car, which we got for cheap but we have put almost $2000 into in the last four monts for tires and tune-ups. I work at a job with NO benefits, so that is also a concern. I never buy new clothes--it is second hand and salvation army for us!

So it isn't like we cash our paychecks and roll around in the money like we thought we would, back in the day when we were both students with in infant, making less that $10,000 a year. So we've been poor, now we have broken into the middle class, sort of, and I won't lie, it *is* better. But instead of one paycheck away from total disaster, we are simply more like 3 paychecks away. There *is* money left over at the end of the month, only a couple hundred, but that is better than putting $500 on the credit card every month, just to get by. And instead of shopping at Aldi's, we buy organic, and can afford (sort of!) a grocery bill that is more than our house payment.

If our house falls down around our ears, though, we are in deep shit! I'm looking at a rather ominous crack right now... but I have a roof over my head (with only a few spots on the ceiling from leaks!) and think, you know, I still have it really good. We aren't starving, we are dry, relatively warm, have a great garden, live in an awesome town, have jobs we like, we have health care access, and all our necessities are met. It hasn't always been like that for us; we have done our share of time completely broke, scared we were going to have to move into our parents' house or declare bankruptcy or something drastic like that. But we made it, and I am glad we have enough. I don't think we will ever earn alot extra (I am a nurse for a midwife, dh is a teacher), but we are happy.


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## yoga (May 1, 2002)

We're in the 20-30 bracket, closer to 20 than 30. I feel like we're poor, statistically, but I know we are very rich. We just got health insurance thru dh's job, but the kids have always had it. And, so did I while pregnant. If we can't afford food (sometimes he loses his job or his paychecks fluctuate), we are very fortunate to be able to get food stamps. We always have a reasonable dwelling (even if it costs us more in elec. and gas to keep it warm than it does to rent it) , and right now, we love our place. We just got rid of our car, b/c it makes no sense to have one considering gas cost, insur. cost, mass transit availability, and our location.

Are we able to afford all the organic foods? No way. But, we will have a garden this summer, so that will be good.

I feel like money isn't what makes you "rich". We are all healthy and sheltered and fed and live somewhere where if dh lost his job, we could remain sheltered and fed. That is plenty rich, to me. And, we can afford to rent cars every once and a while in order to travel to another city or state. We're very comfortable, IMO.

Of course, we still don't have a couch! :LOL When that tax return check comes, we'll be shopping!


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

I voted $20-30 g's. We have a small but cozy home; DH drives a piece of crap to work - it's literally falling apart - so we got a second minivan that we are making payments on each month. We have no debt racked up, which is a plus... basically, we have our car insurance, house payment, car payment, gas and electric bill, computer bill, and phone bill... we eat less than half organic, but we're making a supreme effort... and we still manage to put a teensy bit away each month. We don't really buy things for ourselves unless we really need them... although we do splurge and maybe do a cheap lunch or a movie on some weekends. Playgroups and womens circles keep me happy







They're free, and I get the love and connection with others that money just can't buy....


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## bamboogrrrl (Apr 16, 2002)

Hey Lorijds! I mentioned Lawrence, KS because I had a friend move out there for a few years, and we visited them once. They have since moved to Portland, OR. We all made the about same $$$ at the time, but it seemed to go a lot further in KS, as opposed to the NE. Although now it sounds like it got more expensive to live there. Bamboo

PS - Tried to PM you, but couldn't...


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## nuggetsmom (Aug 7, 2002)

Well, I dont earn and tell either. However, we make plenty of maney but we do live in a very expensive area. So expensive that when my income tripled after moving here from minnesota, I had less money than ever! So teh area you live does make a difference, but even beyond that we are comfortable.


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## Avonlea (Jan 21, 2002)

xxxxxxx


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Avonlea...you dont know me, but your story touched me. amazing, the human spirit. no, i was never poor like that, but i certainly can see your point. i am in no way being condescending, just thankful i read your post.


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## gurumama (Oct 6, 2002)

I posted on a similar poll a while back. Here it is again:

In 1988 I made $4000, MORE than my mother that year (my senior year of HS/first year of college)

In 1993 I made about $7000

In 1996 I made around $21000

In 1998 DH and I made around $50000

Last year we made about $120000, but...

I lost my job this year, so it's less than that, but we're still very secure.

I too grew up poor and now find myself in the upper 10% income-wise. It's one HELL of a shock. I'm NOT a spender. I still get a huge thrill out of shopping at the Salvation Army and finding Gymboree outfits and Hanna Andersson clothes for $2. I shop loss leaders--but buy mostly organic. We own our cars, but they're older--a 2000 minivan and a 1996 Saturn. Our house is quite nice but not flashy--and the mortgage is half of that of our friends, because we choose to live in a cheaper area.

That said, we max out the 401K, save for our sons' college, help DH's parents, and carry no debt now other than the mortgage.

We make MORE than many families we know, who consider us "poorer" because we don't drive a new SUV or Lexus, don't live in a "better" Boston suburb, don't blow $8000 on Disney World every year, don't have cable tv, don't...well, there are lots of "don'ts" for us financially.

One thing we do, though, is give money to causes we believe in (like the Mothering boards, for instance







). We aren't perfect--we blow money on fru-fru things here and there, but we don't go nuts being consumers. We do invest in our kids' private school educations (Montessori) which is our real luxury.

I have a friend who is contemplating leaving her emotionally abusive husband. The lawyer she consulted told her she'd get around $50,000 in child support. He told her she couldn't "possibly" raise three small kids on that in this area (Boston suburbs). She told this to me as if it were gospel, and therefore she's going to stay with him for another four years until the little ones are in first grade.

Now THAT'S someone who is TRULY "poor".

Mel


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## alie (Jan 1, 2003)

Simonee, I really agree with what yousaid. We have our own business and make a great living, but of course there are alot of extras...having your own business is the best situation I've been in. And the more we make, the more we tithe to environmental organizations or socially active organizations (right now). I grew up pretty working class, so I feel like I am in a fairy tale.


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## Avonlea (Jan 21, 2002)

xxxxx


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Thanks Simonee, ITA!!

My dh has worked really hard to get where he is and I don't think we should have to apologize for his success.


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## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

I was very surprised to see that by being in the 20-30K range we make less than most people on this board. Before I became a SAHM, our combined income was probably 40K. We managed to save a lot of money because we are both "cheap".







I can't remember the last time I paid more than 15$ for an article of clothing, for instance. We shop at thrift stores and yard sales, we clip coupons, we grow our own vegetables, etc. We have a '93 Ford Escort wagon. Our mortgage payment is $710 a month. You get the picture.









So now I am a SAHM, and we are slowly spending our savings. Health insurance alone takes almost 1/4 of DH's paycheck. It hasn't been too bad though, moneywise, since we were already accustomed to such a "low rent" style of living. I figure we can pay our bills OK until Cole starts school, then I can go back to work part time and hopefully we can start saving money again.


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## Bladestar5 (Jan 5, 2003)

It seems to me, that how much you make doesn't matter, but what you do with it does, and how much the cost of living is. We are at the lower end, but not the lowest. We are really struggling right now, but alot of that has to do with poor choices. Our mortgage may not be high, but it is for the type of home we have, but we also have 2 acres of land. We are lucky to have a grocery that doubles coupons, as well as several dented can stores in the area. We also can rely on WIC and state insurance. My dh gets insurance through his job, and that is a plus, although, it doesn't cover much. As it is, I have to go to the local welfare office for help with my prescriptions, because state insurance only covers part of it. My 2 prescriptions are around $334. a month without insurance, and only 40% less with it. We can't afford that! Vermont's economy is not so good right now.
Everytime our taxes come in, they are already spent on bills.
We are moving to Florida, and I know that we will struggle for a while, and it will be really hard not knowing anyone, but it is a new challenge for us, and I am willing to do anything to give us a better quality of life.


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

I appreciate the "poor" stories, because it's nice to know I'm not the only one struggling with this.

I'm quite aware that we are not truly poor -- I mean, my mom grew up in a virtual shack and had two skirts in high school, both of which she made herself! She tell me about when she was a kid and her mom would send her to the butcher to get free liver "for the dog" which they would then cook up for themselves (or else they wouldn't have eaten.) Now *that's* poor.

We are, according to the US gov, poverty level. But we have a 1400 s.f. bungalow on a half acre. We have enough to eat, and we are warm at night. I have a closet full of clothes. We have a computer. It really is *very* relative.

At the same time, I find myself feeling bitter towards people who have a lot of money. I am so sick and tired of budgeting, being frugal, and still having nothing left over for extras. I realize I really need a change of attitude, but not sure how to get there.


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## Bladestar5 (Jan 5, 2003)

Well, I get mad when rich people sit there in a house without drafts and designer jeans, whining because they can't afford some HUGE luxury. I am happy just to make ends meet and maybe a little extra.

I don't mean this towards any mamas here, I am just talking about the few rich people out there, some that I know personally. I also realize that there are rich people who are nice out there.

I also hate it when rich people treat my husband like dirt because we aren't rich, but when they need something fixed, he is right there to help them out, and he is just Mr. Wonderful when they need him. His ex-boss was like this. He treated my husband like dirt, and yet my husband and his friend (who happened to be boss's cousin) were the ones who made him rich.


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## Bladestar5 (Jan 5, 2003)

Oh, and when I was like 9years old, we had to collect bottles+cans to pay the bills. My stepdad was a loser alcoholic who wouldn't get a better job, and the church gave us Christmas presents and clothes. I cannot wait to thank those people in Heaven when I meet them again. That was so loving. They even had a guy come to the house dressed like Santa Claus. They brought me the one gift I really wanted that year, which my mom couldn't afford.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

We have a modest house, one paid off car, shop at thrift stores for most stuff, use cloth diapers, are vegetarian (so no meat to buy), and very rarely eat out or go to a movie, never have hired a sitter, no cable TV or DSL, a very simple cell phone plan for emergencies only . . . and we are just breaking even at the end of the month. We do delegate $100 month to savings. Not nearly as much as we need to, but it's something at least. We have lots of home improvement projects to complete, and our TV is still sitting on two nightstands instead of an entertainment unit, our back yard is still mostly dirt. The good news is that we are in very little debt because we drained our savings to pay it off. The bad news is we don't have much savings left for an emergency.


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## toepea (Apr 30, 2002)

Wow, this is so interesting to me. I have just begun doing the single parent thing and $$$$ is, of course, a huge concern, worry, and factor in every part of my divorce. I would love for people to share their knowldege on reducing my grocery bill, and any other tricks that you have learned along the way. I by no means lived the life of luxury before my move, but I knew the ends would meet at the end of the month. I am terrified of leaving my babies while I work, for minimum wages, and terrified of going into debt. For instance, my rental has an oil furnance. I literally keep our house at 60 or below except during bath time and still am afraid of what my bill is going to be each month. I hate all these uncontrollable bills-------- I mean I do have to have the heat on a bit as we live in a snow zone. Hmmmm, you guys are an inspiration. Should we re-start a how you do it on your income thread??

Enjoy!!
LoriAnn


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## lunar forest (Feb 20, 2003)

Oh it is so hard being poor! We gave up so much so that I could stay home with our son, but we certainly don't regret it! We just moved in with parents because either the rent or car payment had to go, and dh needs the car for work - sigh.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

We too have sacrificed alot so that I could stay home. I consider us fortunate though because even though we are in the "less than $20 000 category" we own our house (mortgage is cheaper for our tiny 3 bdrm with a yard then it would be to rent a one bdrm), we have a car (we haven't always), and we have food (but no table to put it on LOL). We spent a period of time homeless in the early part of our relationship, and lived in parking lots, deserted train cars, and homeless shelters getting one meal a day at the mission (not so easy for a couple of vegetarians LOL) so we will never take what we have for granted. We operate at a deficit every month, but we have what is important-each other (me, dh, ds, and another sprout due Sept), plus we've learned a dozen ways to stretch a dollar. It is amazing how far we have come in 8 years








Laurie


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## Chelly2003 (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by oatmeal_
*I gotta say, where I live in California $50,000 with kids in the house is a pittance. Going out at that eschelon is a luxury and people with that income here think 3x times going out to a $15 movie. We were lucky to get a 2 bedroom house which we share with a roommate for $1800, that's unheard of...

I think the perspective has to be where we live, not just what we make. If I made 50K in Arizona or Kansas I'd probably be in a diferent category that here where the debris meets the sea.*
Yep, we're in the $50k range, and just bought a two bedroom condo - we got lucky, our mortgage payment is $1800 per month. We pay $162 per week for one child in day care, my car is around $400 per month. Our gas and electric is close to $100 per month.
Its not easy on $50k in california. We could have bought a HOUSE anywhere else, and I've thought about that a LOT.

Chelly


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

I was fortunately able to answer this differently than I did the last time this poll was done because I am no longer jobless-without-having-a-choice. I now work again, albeit with flexible hours and the ability to do lots of my work from home, which is incredibly fortunate. I am still in a very low income bracket, but I feel very blessed. Oh, and I agree that factors like location are worthy of consideration.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

We made about 30K last year with dh working full-time and me working 20-30 hr/wk.









I will be quitting work in about six weeks and then we will make about 19K. Hard to live on, especially if you buy Organic and like to buy "not made in China junk at walmart".

Thankfully, I'm the CD, BF, and homemade cooking type, so that will help us with expenses.


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## LiamnEmma (Nov 20, 2001)

We are in the six-figure range. But we're also in southern california, and we've together given up significant pay to be more family friendly. I went to four days/wk when ds was born, and I could have bcome a SAHM after dd was born but instead, dh quit his job and got another for a 50% pay cut. We felt that was better because he was working 6 days/wk at his other job, and dd had no idea who he was when he quit. I simply do not believe that I am so special that it's worth my children making the sacrifice of having a relationship with their father. Plus, dh went to graduate school, so our expenses tripled during the same period that we gave up pay. So we are cash poor. We do save money every month, and we have lots and lots of things that other people don't have. But we too have only one operating car so I do take issue with the idea that two working parents and a six figure income equals selfishness or whatever else. I feel for people who don't have it as easy as we do. There were certainly years where I was so poor I couldn't go to work the last days of the month because I couldn't buy gas to get there and there was no public transportation to take me. And I remember having ten dollars to my name and needing to figure out how to stretch that for food for two weeks. I never want to be there again. Luckily I can see our way out. dh will finish grad school in another year, his salary will raise significantly again, and we will no longer have the nanny that we pay well because we think having a person who truly cares about our kids should be able to make a living too. But here in southern california, we live in the poor part of town certainly.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

We're blessed to be in the upper five figures category.

We live in a modest house with an under $1000. mortgage.....but we have eight children five of whom still live at home and the older three are around frequently (well, not Jo because she's a Marine but when she *does* come visit on leave it always leaves our wallet lighter and our credit card balance heavier









I feel so blessed to be able to stay home with the children.

I also feel incredibly blessed that we can provide for all of their needs. I can take them to the dentist and doctor (this hasn't always been the case because we started off incredibly poor)

I spend a lot of money on groceries (I take out $300 from mac every week for household needs, it's w-a-y too much money but it's for 7+ people)

The only thing I really worry about is paying for college.

Again, I feel incredibly blessed!!

Debra Baker


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## Solange (Apr 10, 2002)

We live o.k. but not the best...
We used to have quite a different lifestyle before ds came along when together we were making quite a bit of $$...
but I do not work any more and my dh's job is good but doesn't bring in anything but enough for house payment, utilities, and a small car payment($77), gas, and what is left we use for groceries, which is not at all very much.
I have not bought myself any new clothes in the past year and neither has dh. We shop at resale shoppes for ds's clothes and toys or we make alot of his toys.We do not go out to eat or go out to movies.
All I know is we are happy and healthy and we have what we need as I believe in the notion "God always provides you with just enough" and He has.


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## JesseMomme (Apr 6, 2002)

w


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## BreJean (Feb 14, 2003)

LOL I just had to post because DH and I are currently making less that 10K a year. We decided to go back to school. Well, I am almost done with school, but DH decided to go back. Anyhow, I know eventually we will have money for savings and all of those wonderful things, but right now, it is tight. But that is cool. We are happy.

And when someone said that they owned older cars that were late 90s models I totally laughed. We own a 1978 Mercedes and a 1981 Toyota hatchback, both paid for and in nice condition but each with well over 250,000 miles!

We now live in a much cheaper area, but we used to live in Portland Oregon when it was just the two of us. DH made about 35K a year and it was nothing! We actually have more cash flow now than we used to, which is interesting.

Emily


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## Ocean (May 10, 2002)

I am amazed at how well so many families seem to be doing on so little money, but I do think that living expenses are relative. I am a lawyer, which makes most people think I must be well-off, but in reality we are struggling. My health insurance deductable and bus pass are paid directly out of my check pre-tax, but once I get my paycheck, I can pay my student loans (the minimum to pay them off in 30 years -- law school is very expensive) and my mortgage, but then I only have $200 left per month, which isn't even enough to buy food for a family of three, let alone electricity, phone, heat, etc. My dh was laid off a year and a half ago, just a few months after we bought our house and we have been struggling ever since. Our house is small -- just 1300 sq ft and has some problems and was really the cheapest house we could find in a somewhat safe neighborhood where I could commute to work by bus so we didn't need to buy a second car. We have considered selling our house and renting a cheap apartment instead or removing dh from health insurance as ways of trying to get by. I'm hesitant to do either, so we keep hoping the economy will turn around soon so dh can work more and we can be financially stable again.


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## Foobar (Dec 15, 2002)

Wow! Lots of answers here.

Well, I will not give away my answer, but I live near Boston and the cost of living is insane here. We live "outside of 128" which means the cheaper communities. We both were in graduate school earning about $200-$300 a month for a while (and living apart) so we both know what that is like. Heck, I still have clothes from high school in my closet (I am 31..soon to be 32!)

I think the cost of living and what you feel is important is the key to rich I forget who said this but the quote goes "A man who earns $42 a week and spends $43 is poorer than a man who earns $20 a week and spends $19."

So true...


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## BreJean (Feb 14, 2003)

Okay, now I am truly bummed. I wish I could FIT into some of my clothes from HS!!! LOL And I am only 25.... sigh.

Emily


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

I'm 42 so any clothing from high school has gone back to dust if you know what I mean.

'Couldn't fit into them, either









db


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## Cloverlove (Jan 2, 2003)

After we got pregnant, dh took the corporate job. We did quite well. We lived in oregon, I stayed home and just didn't worry about $. For us having money meant that we were able to live more responsibly (not get into the consumer trap) and save. We even went solar!

That being said, when dh's job moved to houston (2 months ago) we did not move with it. We took the severance, moved into a family home (in wisconsin) and are living very simply.

It has been a difficult adjustment- I REALLY miss oregon







but it is great to be able to take a step back and figure out what we want to do with our lives. We are looking for work overseas!


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

well, I think categoris need to be more precise. I am in $50-70 K, but it is actually $53K. 70K would have been great!


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## tara (Jan 29, 2002)

Before I quit working to be a SAHM, I made $30K and my partner made $40K. By our standards, even living in Seattle which has a notoriously high standard of living, we were rolling in it. We had more than enough.

Just about the time I quit working, my partner got a big fat raise and is now making around $50k (lucky, eh?). Unfortunately, his job doesn't provide health insurance for the babe or me, so we pay out of pocket for that ($110/month for the bare bones plan - we use it as catastrophic insurance and pay out of pocket for a ND for regular care). No rx coverage so we pay $80/month for the medication that keeps me sane.

But, we bought a house (a cutie patootie teeny weenie house for $160k - a steal in the Seattle market and I love, love, love it). We have a car and a truck that are less than 5 years old (and the car is paid off!). We are still rolling in it, basically. Our big financial decisions are what kind of new flooring to put in the kitchen to replace the ugly old linoleum, not can we eat today or can we buy the medication we need. We are blessed.

I grew up really poor. Food stamps, government cheese and charity Christmas gifts kind of poor. I recently watched 'Roger & Me' again. Whenever I start thinking, "Oh, if only we had more money..." I will remember the image of that family getting evicted on Christmas Eve.

Money stuff is complicated for me. It is complicated for most of us, I think. Money is emotional stuff. My class issues run deep, and are far more intense than any of my other 'issues'. I have prejudices against 'rich' people, which isn't fair and I'm working on it (I have a dear friend who is wealthy, and he is so responsible with his money. Donates an amazing amount of money, spends a lot of his time volunteering, acts out of an awareness that most people don't have his kind of wealth... His friendship has been good for me). Hell, by some people's standards (and certainly compared to how many of the world's people live) we are rich. It's relative.


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## Foobar (Dec 15, 2002)

If it helps, I was size 6 in highschool and then go into size 12 (really, I should have been in 14s, but I refused to accept reality). I have a thyroid condition and I went on "super reduction diet" (ie- ate better and exercised) and got back down. I just can't throw out good clothes, KWIM? I guess that is why DH and I do well financially, we always live below our means because we don't like to waste stuff


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## happyday8598 (Nov 19, 2001)

Is it odd to say that I'm proud of my under $15,000/year raising 2 children on my own??

I'm trying for state assistance now on rent, bc 950/mo is high, but the state tends to be extremely slow at helping out...

I do have child support from one of my children's fathers, so that does help out a little, too...

I'm very surprised at the income level of my peers!! Not a negative, bc I know you've all worked hard to get to where you're at, and many probably have a couple of years on me, so my time will come, but it's interesting to see the income levels and percentage of people in each...

Warmly,
Emily


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## tara (Jan 29, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by happyday8598_ *Is it odd to say that I'm proud of my under $15,000/year raising 2 children on my own??*
Heck, no! I'd be proud, too!


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## M&Mmommy (Jan 25, 2003)

Very good reading this thread. Since I live in the CA Bay Area, cost of living is about as high as it comes. Yet so is our income, so I feel fortunate (knowing that all who live here do not get paid well). This year, dh decided to stay home with our 9 month old twins. He has been doing this for 3 months. Hard work, I have so much respect for his choice and the wonderful job he is doing. I have been the bigger earner for most of our marriage (almost 5 years) so losing his income has not been too big a hardship. Counting out the cost of the nanny we had before, we are doing ALMOST the same.

Money has been such an emotional issue for me. On one hand, I think if women spoke outloud about earnings, lots of inequities would be "outed" and more fairness would come about. However, I was raised not to discuss it. To this day, my parents are dying to know my salary, but are afraid to ask. My step mom gathered her courage, and when I did tell her, she seemed like she just could not believe someone who she never believed in could actually get someone to pay her that much. My feelings of not deserving it conflicted with my belief that I earn it.

I like being able to earn what I do, and I don't take it for granted. I just remember that it does not define me. I am not what I make. Now "Who I Am" is a totally different topic for a different thread.

Keep up the good work, all the mamas, and keep on supporting each other.


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

DH and I make less than 20k a year but do all right as long as there is not an emergency. Unfortunately, we both work part time now and neither of us have health insurance.









We are extremely lucky the DH's parents help out with his school fees and agreed to pay for our car and car insurance (needed for DH's school). Our apartment is small (pretty much a studio) but it is clean, safe, and in a great location.

I am not too sure what is considered a luxury, but I will say that we spend quite a bit of money on organic foods, but we also save by not eating a lot of processed crap. No cable tv, phone add-ons, no cellphones, pagers, etc. either.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by oatmeal_
*I gotta say, where I live in California $50,000 with kids in the house is a pittance. Going out at that eschelon is a luxury and people with that income here think 3x times going out to a $15 movie. If I made 50K in Arizona or Kansas I'd probably be in a diferent category that here where the debris meets the sea.*
absoloutely the same here! we're at about the $50,000 level (with two incomes) here in san diego and all we can afford is a small two bedroom apartment - and don't even think about buying. houses in the ghetto or going for $250-300k! i swear, i used to think what i'm making sounded like a lot of money, but no more!


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## LambQueen (Mar 20, 2003)

We live in NYC and all of our extra funds are going to student loans! I want to be a SAHM when the baby comes in August, but that means our income gets cut in 1/2 and how will we continue to pay off our student loans? I am glad to read about others' financial concerns. We aren't "poor" per se but we have no extra money at the end of the month due to our loans. I am really torn about what to do in August. If I go back to work, day care (yuk, just those words make me cringe) is $215 a week!


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

I have 17K worth of student loans. I got a 6 months defferment with each baby! So, call them up, ask for the forms and file it all before August. I also was able to reduce my monthly payment for a while. It is importnat to repay our loans, so our childrne's children will get them too when they are in college, but it is also important to be with a baby for a while, because baby is a baby only for a while!. and this what deferrement and foraberance procedures are for.from my own experience, I find that a nanny is much better than day care. and NYC has many Russian nannies who are great and not too expensive!
Do not delay and contact your lenders today!


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## LambQueen (Mar 20, 2003)

Student loans are only deferable if you had them prior to 1993. I called and checked. Plus, I think you still accrue interest when they are in deferment. But thanks for the suggestion!


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

Yes, the interest accures, but a few extra month with the baby will worth it. I got my loans after 1995 and ahd foreberance several time. Yes, I will be paying them off until the day I die, probably, but who cares.


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

Well, I picked less than 20K. dh makes $862.37 a month 10 months out of the year with his teaching assistant stipend. I'm a SAHM, so I make no money. Our student loans are somewhere around 20K and our credit cards are around 5K. We live on more student loans right now (otherwise we wouldn't be able to afford rent), which constitued about 8k this school year. That's how we paid rent through July, which is $514, with no utilities. So, unless dh finds a job for the summer, it looks like we'll be living off credit cards again. We own one car that's paid for, but it's older & has constantly needed repairs - I heard someone call a '96 & a '00 vehicle "older", and not to be judgmental at all, because I understand that cars need repairs unless they're brand new, and even still sometimes, but our car is a '91, and I consider that to not be so bad, but I guess it depends on what you live on, or are used to. So it seems as though we're on the poor end here, I guess, but it doesn't feel so bad, unless I think about it because we still buy organic and have clothing and a place to live. I'm used to not having a lot. I guess our credit card debt proves that we aren't too lacking, though. Once dh finishes his PhD (six years?), things should start to improve, provided he can find a job and the president doesn't take away all funding from the university system. But after that, I'm not worried - or at least that's the fantasy I survive on.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

I'm an actual poor person. My husband and I have a common law marriage because we can't afford to have a ceremony. He makes just enough money that I would no longer be eligible for health benifits from disability if we were married in a civil ceremony. We are living in my mother's attic, and are hoping to move once we get our tax refund. DH has a small car that he uses to drive to work every day (about 30 mins each way); it's got about 120,000 miles on it. If I have to go anywhere, I walk or take the bus. Between the two of us, we're lucky to have two dimes to rub together at the end of the month!









I understand that the cost of living is higher in some areas, but the two of us would *love* to have 50k/year. It would mean we could live in an apartment of our own.

I was also wondering where the idea came from that AP's tend to be lower income... that seems totally backwards to me. Every AP I've ever met personally has been in a relatively high tax bracket. Sorry if I sound unsympathetic, but DH and I are thrilled to pieces when we can go to wal-mart and buy new socks. *sigh*


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## LiamnEmma (Nov 20, 2001)

eilonwy







I hope things get better financially soon.


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## hydrangea (Jun 5, 2002)

This thread has been an eye-opener for me.

It seems that except for those with the least money on this list, who I really feel for, it is so much about attitude. There are people living on far less than we do who are happy and people living on far more who are not happy.

We have been poor ($24,000 for a family three at the time in NYC, no insurance, student loans to pay off), and I knew what it was like to wonder where the next meal was going to come from.

By the time we left NYC a little over a year ago my husband was making over $65,000, and we still weren't rolling in dough because we were having to pay off all the debts that had accrued in the poor years and replace all the broken things (like refrigerators) that we had made do with or gone without before. We were just starting to feel settled, when it became obvious that the dot.com world was about to collapse and the company my husband was working for was no exception and that jobs he was qualified for were incredibly scarce.

We ended up moving upstate and taking a big paycut (he started here at $50,000 but now makes about $55,000). Even though we left NYC, our expenses have gone up. We had amazing rent in the city. We bought a house because we were tired of throwing money away, and our mortgage payments (including tax and insurance) are $500 more a month than our rent in the city was. To find a house we could afford, we had to accept one that needed lots of work. So a fair amount of money goes into repairs and renovations. We didn't have a car in the city. Now my dh has his 1996 Honda that his parents bought for him (our life is furnished by my in-laws), and I have a '93 2-door Chrysler (ugly and inconvenient with the kids but it works) that I bought for $100 off a relative, and there is the cost of insurance, repairs, and maintenance. Heating this house is a huge added expense since we didn't pay for heat (or gas at all) in our apartment and this house is very drafty. So we are struggling to maintain our lifestyle.

After reading this thread, though, I realize how much we have to be grateful for. We have no savings, the girls don't get to take music or dance classes, we haven't taken a vacation since before we had children. But we do have a house, my husband has a job that is relatively secure, we have health insurance, we have two cars, we never have to worry about whether there will be food on the table, I get to stay home and unschool the children, we get out to the very occasional movie at the cheap movie theater here, my dh's parents are usually there to give us a hand or bale us out of trouble, and my parents live nearby enough to help out regularly with the children. I am grateful, and I will try to keep this with me.

It is interesting though how salary doesn't necessarily have that much to do with things. My parents live nearby and and make less than $30,000. Yet they own their house with no mortgage payments (bought it 15 years ago with money from the sale of my grandmother's house) and love tag sales and fixing things up. There place is filled with broken appliances and furniture. They really let things go in their house. I am very uncomfortable when I am there, but they make it work for themselves so well that they are able to take overseas trips at least once a year, are able to help out my sister and brother who are in school (paid for by another legacy), and more.

My in-laws, too, have no income, and when they did, it was dh's step-father's meager postal worker's income, but they are very well-off. It is because my MIL early on, while still freshly divorced and single, discovered a knack for finding really cheap houses with lots of potential and fixing them up for a song (before this she had had to supplement their meager income by collecting and returning bottles). So my dh moved every few years as a child. His mother would buy a house, they'd move into it, she'd fix it up, they'd sell it for a LOT more than they bought it, and it would start all over again, with a slightly nicer house this time. So over the years they have acquired quite a bit of money and now live in a beautiful home with many acres of land and drive a fully-paid for Lexus SUV (I don't approve of that choice, but it shows where they are).


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I chose $30,000-$50,000. My husband makes $42,000 a year (working offshore on an oil rig, so he EARNS that money!), and I make about $7000. It's quite a lot of money in rural north Louisiana, especially for two 20-year-olds with a baby. We don't have a nice house yet, but we're working on it, and we have two reliable vehicles. We do still blow a lot of money on stupid things, but we're getting better about.

And let me just say that I KNOW what it's like to be poor. Not even two years ago we were AT LEAST $500 in the hole between every paycheck, and having to borrow money from my parents and his parents every two weeks or so to even make my prenatal visits. It was terrible. It was like, no matter how great things were going in our relationship, friendships, etc., there was always this dark cloud over our heads. My husband has since gotten a much better job, and I've started working part-time, so we've upped our salary by at least $25,000 a year since then.

When we finally do get a nice house, though, I'm sure we'll be paycheck-to-paycheck once again, but maybe at least we won't be in the hole!


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

Oh, and I was also going to say that I was appalled at what some of you said houses were going for in your areas! $250,000 for a house in the GHETTO?! Here you could have the nicest house in my town BY FAR for $250,000! I don't think there is anyone within a 30-mile radius of me with a house that expensive. Where I live, in a small town in north Louisiana, you can get a nice house for $45,000 -- in fact, the house I lived in before I got married was $44,000 and was a 3-bedroom, 2-bath house with a 2-car garage! We are looking for a house in the $70,000-80,000 range and that should be a 1800-2000 sq. ft. brick house on 2 acres or something like that.

Everyone should move here!


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## C99 (Apr 7, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bladestar5_
*Well, I get mad when rich people sit there in a house without drafts and designer jeans, whining because they can't afford some HUGE luxury.*
Have you ever witnessed this, or are you just ruminating on what "rich people" might do?


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## gurumama (Oct 6, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by annakiss_
*I heard someone call a '96 & a '00 vehicle "older", and not to be judgmental at all, because I understand that cars need repairs unless they're brand new, and even still sometimes, but our car is a '91, and I consider that to not be so bad, but I guess it depends on what you live on, or are used to.*
That was me! Our cars are a '96 and a '00. However, we went through years of the old clunkers when I was in grad school. In 1994 I bought a 1978 Datsun B210 for $137.50 and drove that sucker for a year--used a screwdriver to start it, because the key broke off in the ignition and the guy couldn't repair it--he had to take out the lock! It finally died and I actually sold it to a junkyard for $60, so I drove it for $77.50 for that year--that's what, about $6.50/month? now THAT's a great car payment







.

When I say a '96 and a '00 are "older" I mean compared to our neighbors here. Folks in our approximate income range are leasing/buying a new car every 2-3 years, always with payments, and we're often asked why we don't drive newer/nicer cars (with a sniff of snobbery). Well, ours are paid off and perfectly functional.

There is a light at the end of the grad school tunnel! We've BTDT and good for you for finding a way to be a SAHM. I didn't have kids during the lean years, so I don't know what that's like, but I think your kids will fully appreciate the effort you've put into giving them parents who are there for them.


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## musician/mom (Feb 12, 2002)

We have discovered how $ is really easy-come-easy-go (and we really hope easy-come again!)

In 1987-1989 we made 26K and that was a fair amount for us then.

In 1989 - 1991 I was in grad school and we made maybe 10,000 and were beside ourselves with glee when we were approved for yet another credit card so we could pay the rent and gas bills (at 19% interest!)

from 1991 - 2001 we made approx 75K, paid off 10s of thousands in debt, saved a fair amount in mutual funds and took some great Caribbean and Europe vacations.

In 2001 we moved (for complicated reasons) dh made 23K and I was a sahm, our funds lost 15K and we spent every last leftover penny on a down-payment on a house. DH's job promised commissions that never were paid, he quit, started a business partnership that failed and went several months with no pay at all.

We are now on unemployment and the Medicaid shared-cost program. We have 0% credit cards maxed out to the limits. I've had to borrow 2500 from my parents just to get through the next month.

But... we are selling our house for a huge profit, moving to a house which is a little less expensive in a different town, dh is changing careers to one that is more promising, I'll be able to do some more work in my field (teaching and performing) and we're feeling pretty confident that we will do well.

The last couple years have been rough finacially but we're going to get through it and I've stayed home with my two precious kids; i wouldn't trade that opportunity for all the money in the world.


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## musician/mom (Feb 12, 2002)

We have discovered how $ is really easy-come-easy-go (and we really hope easy-come again!)

In 1987-1989 we made 26K and that was a fair amount for us then.

In 1989 - 1991 I was in grad school and we made maybe 10,000 and were beside ourselves with glee when we were approved for yet another credit card so we could pay the rent and gas bills (at 19% interest!)

from 1991 - 2001 we made approx 75K, paid off 10s of thousands in debt, saved a fair amount in mutual funds and took some great Caribbean and Europe vacations.

In 2001 we moved (for complicated reasons) dh made 23K and I was a sahm, our funds lost 15K and we spent every last leftover penny on a down-payment on a house. DH's job promised commissions that never were paid, he quit, started a business partnership that failed and went several months with no pay at all.

We are now on unemployment and the Medicaid shared-cost program. We have 0% credit cards maxed out to the limits. I've had to borrow 2500 from my parents just to get through the next month.

But... we are selling our house for a huge profit, moving to a house which is a little less expensive in a different town, dh is changing careers to one that is more promising, I'll be able to do some more work in my field (teaching and performing) and we're feeling pretty confident that we will do well.

The last couple years have been rough finacially but we're going to get through it and I've stayed home with my two precious kids; i wouldn't trade that opportunity for all the money in the world.


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## mojomom (Mar 5, 2003)

We are now living on pretty much our tax return and dh' 401k. He lost his job with a company he has given his soul to for 10 years. They let him go for a petty reason, he dared to be bold and try to better himself and start his own buisness. He is now trying it on his own and he is very excited and I am seeing a totally knew side to him. Doing the budget is going to be hard, I am not sure how to make the money stretch what to pay and what to put off. We might have to live with his parents which is okay with me, they have a big house and I love them alot.

This has really been an eye opener to me. I always fussed and worried over our budget and how much money we have coming in and now that there is no money coming in I am having to focus on other things. I wanted to simplify our life and this has surely done it. It really has taught me where our focus money wise needs to be. We should have saved more payed off more and spent more wisely. Too little too late but what lessons we are learning about ourself and enjoying. This is all new and just happened who knows if I will still see the sunny side after a few months.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mojomom_
*It really has taught me where our focus money wise needs to be. We should have saved more payed off more and spent more wisely. Too little too late but what lessons we are learning about ourself and enjoying. This is all new and just happened who knows if I will still see the sunny side after a few months.*








BTDT. It's really hard. We lived off dh's 'severance' (which was actually back-pay the company owed him) for three months. Because the company called the back-pay severance on the paperwork, we never got a cent of unemployment. I wanted my dh to fight it, but he's too laid back.







I was working part-time and bringing in just enough that we didn't have to borrow money before dh's new job start paying (took four weeks to get the first check).







:

Dh's new job pays 30% less than his old job + I quit work to stay home with dd and our ds due to arrive any day. It's hard, but I'm learning that there's things more important than the size of our bank account.







I must say I like knowing the bills will be paid tho. LOL


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## plum (Mar 7, 2003)

We are on the lower end. I think Dh makes around $12000 a year. But he's also active duty Air Force so there are benefits that come with it. We have a three bedroom townhouse-type thing on base, which I love. We don't pay heat or electricity, just the extras (phone and high speed internet connection). We have health insurance and I get to see a midwife. Groceries at the commissary are cheap (we spend around $30 a week on groceries, maybe less) and other things are tax free at the BX. We have one car that we make monthly payments on (99 Toyota) and another we owe $600 on (97 Saturn). The most expensive thing we spend money on is our car insurance.

He has enough training in his career field to easily find a job when he is finished with active duty. I'm going back to college next fall to finish the other two or three years of my undergraduate degree and have already found a medical program that I'm almost positive I'll be accepted to.

I think if our circumstances were different, like if we were older (and were used to having more money) or had more children, this might not be as easy. I know it's hard for a lot of military families, but we're still young and only have the one baby on the way (and a house full of cats ) so I'm happy. It's in the middle of nowhere, but I also feel lucky. My reservation is an hour from here so I can see my grandparents frequently and our parents live four hours away, so we can visit on the weekends. Actually, we're going home for the weekend when Andy gets off work.

I even get to be a SAHM, something I never thought I'd do. We don't have much money, but all things considered I'm really happy right now.


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## Almamiel (Dec 24, 2002)

We're making a little under $9000/year right now. We're VERY frugal, but our savings account (meager though it is) is slowly draining...it's a hard thing. I'm in the middle of having to make the decision to be a wohm (dh would be with dd - he could take her to meetings/work, thank god) and I think it is the most heartwrenching decision...hard times.


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## angelfromalasaka (May 19, 2002)

I think its hard to be in any ones shoes. we make 50 plus, but also drive a 91 car and cant get another one yet. that is our goal for this year.
alot of our money is for cc debit, and food as it cost more here.our morage isnt bad at 1100 a month but our oil for heating and electic can be high.
things cost more here in general but i thank God we dont live in the bush..... they all pay so much more for shipping !!!
angel mom to grace 5/12/99 and drew 11/24/00


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Well, I voted 60+ and am shaking my own head in shame. I grew up poor & on welfare -- so this is about 10 times what it cost my mom to raise the 6 of us on, and we have no savings?! I still don't understand where all our $$ goes. Granted where she lives in Michigan, she (I say she cause my dad bailed when I was 15 & my youngest sister was 3) paid rent at $300, for a two bedroom house with a basement, and a 400sq/ft apt. is $475 here. My dh has a pt cruiser







: but he wanted it & he worked hard to get where he is, so I figure he deserves it. I on the other hand was happy with my '91 Ford Ranger. Unfortunately I cosigned for my sister on a loan, and after she ruined my credit & couldn't sell the truck, I finally had to take it & take over the payments. So I'm stuck with a '96 truck that I don't like & has high payments when I had just paid off my last truck!







And I STILL don't have air conditioning!!







:

I will say that in our case, we have horribly mis-managed & wasted our money. We have a lot of credit card debt -- for things that we never should have bothered with. Do you really NEED brand new furniture? We should have saved that $$ for when the air conditioner had to be totally replaced 8 months later!


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## angelfromalasaka (May 19, 2002)

dont feel bad..... my dh co signed on car for my sd, she totalled it, didnt pay the insurance, bought herself a big yukon last aug and guess what. hasnt made the payments since then !!she makes them on and off. we cant get the car back since she totalled it.
we made bad choices too, we traveled alot the two years before we had kids.but paying it all off...
i know if someone would have told me we would make good money and have no saving !!!


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Yea, and it doesn't help when the "good paying job" has a screw up with payroll & doesn't deposit the check, and you've already sent out bill payments that you now HOPE don't bounce, & in the mean time you are using credit cards for food, gas, etc...that you never seem to end up having the $$ later to pay right back...grrr DISCIPLINE -- that's what we need. And no more co-signing, and his job to become a bit more stable.... ad naseum ...

I do have to say that my sister TRIED to make payments -- but her husband is a youth pastor & she stays at home with her 2 under 5 (and expecting another!)... When she bought it she was unmarried & working construction (go muscle-mama) with one baby & didn't yet have back problems!


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## crunchywannabe (Mar 10, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by FirstTimeMom_
*The thing is that if you don't make $50,000 plus it sounds like a lot but when you do it doesn't *feel* like a lot - not for a family of three or more.*
DH only grosses $34,000 a year, and we have a family of 7

$50,000 would indeed seem huge to us!


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

In some states, 34K is a resonalbe amount for survival. In San Franciso Bay are it is poveryt for family of 2.


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## crunchywannabe (Mar 10, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Alenushka_
*In some states, 34K is a resonalbe amount for survival. In San Franciso Bay are it is poveryt for family of 2.*
It is considered poverty here too! We qualify for tons of assistance programs because we are within 133% of the poverty level here in Idaho....we are actually $20,000 under the median income level for Idaho based on state statistics.

*sigh*

I am glad that such programs are available to those that need them though! Makes me glad that we live here(instead of say...california) on his income instead of somewhere else because his job does not take cost of living into consideration...your income is the same no matter where you live.....stinks! LOL

I had just wanted to say to the original poster that said "$50,000 does not feel like a huge income when you have a family of 3 or more" that for some families that make smaller than that, and have more people, it is indeed a huge amount.


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## CandyLayne (May 12, 2003)

honestly, i don't know exactly how much dh makes (even though i do the bills) but it's enough for me to pay the bills, have some left for savings and entertainment and still allow me to be at home with her.







i quit teaching when i was 7.5 months pregnant, so we lost almost 30K then but it's the best decision we could've made.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

I took a poll like this once before, but our income has come down since then. My husband grosses an even $60,000 as a computer programmer, specifically a firmware engineer. Given that my sister is single and makes over $40,000 and has to economize, and my other sister, also single but with grown children, makes about the same at one job, but can't make it without a second job delivering newspapers, I figure $60,000 for a family of almost 4 isn't exactly rolling in the dough, but we do manage to save a little money, and spend money on things we want at times. So we have more than we need just to get by, which is a better situation than I've been in for most of my life where I was living paycheck to paycheck and in debt. Still, I'm always looking for ways to cut back, especially on utilities which can be high in the west, water especially. We also have more house than we need, but all of our vehicles are paid for, which is nice.

The most money I ever made at any job was $24,000 which included overtime, and this was when I worked in purchasing in Virginia in 1997. My last job where I was living in Orange county, CA and doing temp work in an accounting office of a distribution center, I made $10 an hour with no benefits. The people wanted me to come back at least part time after my baby was born, and my feeling was how? I'd probably have to pay $10 an hour for daycare.


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## Justice2 (Mar 18, 2003)

My dh makes in the 40-50 range (closer to 50) with the opportunity to go up into the 70's next year. We are very forutnate. We live in a very small town in SC and are renting a house while we save to buy it! Our rent for a two bedroom house is only 350 (house not mobile home) a month. Our utilities are very inexpensive...our gas bill is the most at 58.00 last month and our water was $15.00 this month. It's amazing to me because I don't look at us as having much money, but my neighbor came over yesterday after I went to WalMart (for a garden hose) and when I said that I had spent $100.00 she replied with "lord, I wish I had an extra $100.00 to spend at WalMart". I guess it's all relative.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Justice2_
*Our utilities are very inexpensive...our gas bill is the most at 58.00 last month and our water was $15.00 this month.*
That's what I miss about Virginia. My husband's water bill was $12 before I moved in, then it went up to $24 a month. I guess it was the extra daily shower. When we moved to CA, a water bill of $100 was common, and no one I talked to seemed to think this was strange. In VA we never wasted water by pouring it on the lawn--it seemed so strange to do this in CA where our county had to buy water and didn't have enough in their own reservoirs.


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## thistle (Aug 10, 2002)

My DH makes 24K with the assurance that there will be NO RAISE for the next 2 years at least (Thanks Texas Legislature!!) Last year I made about 2K. That is about 50% of the median income for a family of 3 in our town. We live in an expensive part of TX (Austin), and our rent on a small 2 BR is $675/mo which includes cable but not water/gas/garbage







: Our housing/utilities expense takes up a big portion of his pay. Our health insurance is $200/mo. I refuse to give that up b/c this is the first time as an adult that I have actually had health insurance. Most of the cost is for me. DH's portion is covered by his job and dd's portion is only $15/mo. Plus he has a MANDATORY 6% contribution to his retirement, so that's $120/mo we don't even get to see. DH wants to buy a house, and we could probably swing the payment but taxes are kind of high here and homeowners insurance is the most expensive in the country!! I don't know how we'd pay for repairs.

On paper, we are poor. We qualify for WIC but don't get it. I don't particularly FEEL poor. I buy about half and half organic produce. We eat organic bread, but that's because I bought a breadmaker for $10 at a thrift store and make my own for about 50 cents a loaf (maybe less). I cook from scratch a lot, but we also eat out some too. Most of my clothes come from the thrift store, once a year or so I will buy something new at Ross' dress for Less. Dd's toys come from yard sales and she wears gifts/hand me downs.

When we want to do something we save up for it. We went on vacation last year to visit DH's family and this year we are going to visit mine. We do not use credit cards at all and our only debt is my student loans (which is another story altogether). I put a set amount of money into savings every month. I try to put a little extra in too, but often end up hainvg to use it. We have 1 car- a 92 Toyota. I like having emergency money available for the inevitable car repairs.

We have to do this on our own because both my & DH's parents are dead. We don't have any backup.

Most importantly we love each other and are happy.

thistle


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## angelfromalasaka (May 19, 2002)

we have well water so we do pay at all. we also have adump which is free.
that makes up for the 100 month elec bill and the heating costs for oil.
angel


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

Our utilities are a pretty decent chunk, as well -- $160 - $180/month! We aren't really allowed to have clothes lines here, so I can't save money that way -- unless we put up a fence in our backyard (deed restrictions







: ). We also have a water bill that's almost $40/month -- I seem to remember it being about $15 when I lived in Michigan!

thistle (I love your name







), you are an inspiration -- I know there are ways to cut back, I just need to take the time to do them! I have the ability to cook, I just get lazy... you've convinced me to get on the ball - no pizza delivery here, tonight! :LOL


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## hslingmomof4 (Jun 4, 2003)

I voted and I'm learning not to tell b/c some think I have all this money and I don't. I have a family of 6. Our income use to be double and didn't have a problem telling. Dh and I started out as teen parents (19) so we were proud to work hard from where we started. We use to make 106K (cincinnati, Oh area) and quite honest,lwe still were broke b/c of our student loans. We owe about that much in student loans. Well, two years ago dh got laid off from his job. Actually they called it a fire. They didn't want to dish out a severance as in the benefit package. Ironically, they fired an addtl. 12 more ppl. 5 months after he got laid off, I was laid off with 3 months severance but it went quick. He was unemployed for 15 months before he got this job in Florida. Now, it has been 18 months for me and I'm not returning since I am hsling. Besides there aren't any jobs in my field in Florida. It was a dark time for us.
Now we live in Florida where they say it was an lateral move with income. No it isn't. It is more expensive for houses that would equal the size in the Midwest. Companies don't dish out the money as the midwest. So, our standard of living went down from two years ago. However, we are managing. I've cut groceries down to the point that at the end of the month, I become creative. We lost our house, two new vehicles and sold a lot of furniture before we bankrupt. We weren't careless, we didn't see it coming. We have never been through this before. So, the ones that posted here and stated that they were laid off or their spouse is or was. I feel for ya. I'm rambling now. That is a sensitive subject for me.

Is there a lost a job support board here? Maybe we can all talk about it and find some leads. Who knows?


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## Worldshakerz (Jun 16, 2003)

Before baby, my dh and I made approximately 36,000 after taxes. WOuld have been a little more, but I quit working in my 6th month of pregnancy last november. I'm not shy about how much we make, whether we be rich or poor. We lived on that very well, though not luxuriously. At that time we lived in a 1-bedroom apartment for 460/month, paid between $75-100 on electric, about $60-75 on phone (mostly basic stuff, but a few frills like call-waiting), about $50/mo on cable, $30 for roadrunner, $150 on credit card between us, $60-$75 on gas for our $300 paid-for car. I shelled out some money for school...books, supplies, etc, and paid for a semester of college, approx $1000. Car Insurance for the year $950 (broken down into 10/mo of $95 payments), tags renewal $36 dollars, health insurance premiums plus copays, about $3000. Our grocery bill was very high, but I'm including in grocery: regular store-bought, some organic, variety of regular vitamins and supplements, non-food items such as paper products, water filter replacements, cat food and cat care, cleaning supplies, lightbulbs, yadayada, film, pictures developing (im a nut for taking pictures), and movie rentals our bill comes out to $1000 a month! Oops, not including eating out, which we used to do all the time, especially at work for lunch out a few times a week: average $200/mo. Oh yeah, laundry $10/week in the machines. Exceptions of film developing,eating out, movie rentals, all the above a would consider needs. Now throw in wants: clothes, shoes, (thrift stores for me), occasionally a new cloth item but always from the sale rack. We also paid for our own wedding and honeymoon last year, about $2000 all told. We splurged on our honeymoon I have to say, in Orlando it was one big shopping spree, our first one in over a year. Well, this all adds up to having had just enough to get by comfortably. Pay check to pay check for us. Hope this isn't TMI for anyone, I guess this has inadvertently turned into an exercise for me to find out what happened to the money hehe.

Well, I haven't been working since last november. This year things are very different, living on dh pay which will be about 28000 after taxes. We rarely eat out, though maybe we do order chinese once a month as a treat. We moved into a 2-bedroom apartment to accodomate for our new addition to the family (February) we pay $560 now. Our grocery bill we have drastically reduced, and I'm constantly figuring out ways to cut it. We don't buy as many of the vitamins that we used to, just the basic multi and a few others for cold season. We cut out lots of the packaged food items (healthier anyway). I just found a co-op which will be saving me lots on produce and dairy! Hurrah! We have a cloth diapering kit coming in the mail now....big savings there. There is a great book that has given me some ideas called "Living Well on a Shoestring" it's got some great ideas. We don't have cable (just the cable modem now). We RARELY rent movies...i think maybe 5 all year total.

This has been a little long, but again it has been an exercise for me. Really becoming a mother has made me stop and think what is important, and in some ways money is on the bottom of the list. Staying home with my ds is the best decision I made! Both dh and I will be returning to school this fall....maybe someday we will make more...until then, we are cutting all the corns we can....but yes I would love to be "rich" financially...would love to buy all organic, buy a house and fill it with environment friendly products...that is our ultimate goal and we aren't afraid to work for it..


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## pie (Apr 7, 2006)

Quote:

_Originally posted by lorijds_
*We live on a little over $50,000--and 5 years ago I would have thought it heaven, but we barely make ends meet. Owning a home can be pricey, and if you want to buy a home under 100,000 in this town, you need to be prepared to do some serious renovation. I'm not talking a big house, either--we live in 850 square feet, two bedroom, one bath, pretty basic.

.*
I live near the beach in Southern CA. We rent. If you want a house below one hundred grand here you get a time share. Maybe a trailer home BUT the lot rent would be VERY high.

They are shutting down all the trailer parks anyway to build community parks and campgrounds.

You honestly can't buy a single family home anywhere around here for under three hundred grand, and that is in the really rundown parts of OC. In my town you cannot even dream of getting a house for under 375 grand.

So we are moving to the desert where you can own a home for under two hundred, or even under a hundred if you want to.


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## pie (Apr 7, 2006)

btw before we moved we paid 1100 a month for a one bedroom apt. We had a teeny yard though!


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## Lifesabeach (Apr 8, 2003)

well we made a lot last year but we live in So CA so it doesn't go very far. We also rely on the stock market and in the last 1.5 yrs we have taken a major hit and it's looking like it's time to stop acting like we have money to spend


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I never would have assumed that “AP” parents were on the lower end of the income bracket. I feel it is a rather privileged way to parent. I don’t really mean this in a bad way : > )


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## quantumsarah (Mar 23, 2002)

I voted in the $50,000 to $75,000 range, but if we made $75,000 a year, I could afford a car instead of the gigantic piece of yard art I have now. *laugh* We make about $52,000 a year, and are a family of five.


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## quantumsarah (Mar 23, 2002)

After reading the thread, I wanted to add: I live in central Texas. We live in a house that has one bedroom and one bathroom, and is about 600 sq.ft. Three adults, two young children. We pay $500 a month in rent, plus about $150 a month for utilities, not including phone. There are two working vehicles, but neither will hold both of my children's carseats. (If the boys go somewhere together, it's in their father's car. My ex visits every week.) We raise chickens, and grow fruits, vegetables, nuts, and herbs. I live with my parents, who both work fulltime, and I stay at home with my sons. The boys get medical insurance through my mother's employer, but I haven't had medical coverage since I was a child, except for the times I was pregnant and on Medicaid.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Well, we're about to drop some categories. I've decided to take a 2 year LOA until I can find a p/t job.

The belt will certainly be tighter, but our kids are worth it!


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

I am so excited to say that we NOW, after 11 months of DH being unemployed, have an income!!!!!!!!!

Dh makes 10 dollars and hour and I make 6. We bring home about 24 thousand a year now, that is quite a fall from the 40 thousand Mark brought home a lone last year - but, we'll make it!

We rent our little home now(foreclosure of our 'real'home happened last month) and pay 300 per month. Our utilities run us about 150(including phone bill, lights, and garbage pick-up. Our house is about 700-800 sq.feet with two bedroom and 1 bath. We don't really have a kitchen per say. It's about 10 foot long and 5 feet wide. I have no counter spacec, and my washer and dryer are along one wall of the room. Strange eh? LOL- but I cannot complain. We are living in hog heaven about now. Although I miss my Summer dog more than words can say, and it kills me to think about losing our house


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## I Fly (Jul 8, 2002)

My old boss, who I love, grossed over $12,000 EACH MONTH







. Also had a spouse with a good-paying full-time job. Also made extra money on a regular basis. They were always concerned about money and worried about not having enough. This was a good lesson for me. I knew then that unless I changed myself, it would never be enough. Our society runs on wanting more all the time. How could someone with that much actually worry about bouncing checks?

We have a complicated financial history in our 5 year marriage since dh was a student for 2 years and since we started our marriage relatively "rich" due to some inheritance money. We now live on dh's salary of about 54K. On paper, this is enough for all of our needs, minus maternity insurance for me.







Once I left my job, the cost of adding ds and myself to dh's ins. was over $600/month. I feel like this is ridiculous! Our largest expense is college loans: about $450/month. We have a car note of $280 since we opted for a new car to make dh's commute of one hour each way better/safer. Our other car is paid for. Car and house and health insurance, plus utilities and groceries really add up. We also tithe 10%. We never seem to have money left over at the end of the month. We eat out too much, and neither of us is willing to be the "budget police". However, we are depleting our small savings, so this will soon become necessary.

We have made some poor financial decisons, and hopefully have learned a lot on the front end of our lives. By far, our best financial decision was to buy a cheap house. I'm not sure what many of you mean by "ghetto", but I know that we LOVE our house and neighborhood even though many friends think we live in a rough part of town. (One woman came over and said 3 times upon arrival, "you didn't tell me that you live in such a terrible neighborhood." I finally said, "we don't.") We spent 57K on our 1140 sf house, then put about 15K into fixing it up. We were amazed that friends would spend 100K on dumpy little newish places in a better part of town. We pay $363/month mortgage and about $1000/year in repairs and are able to walk downtown. Our neighborhood is very diverse, but we feel that this is extremely healthy, and a big plus. (We also have a rottweiler who weighs 120!







)

Right now, our major goal is to get out of debt. We owe about 40K in student loans. We spent all of last year getting out of cc debt, which we will now avoid like the plague that it is. We would like to get out of debt and then figure out a way for dh to work less than he does, so that he can spend time with our family and pursue interests outside of work.

By far the hardest thing for us is to sidestep materialism. We feel that it is important to our faith that we not focus on material goods. However, this has been difficult for us so far. Right now, we are considering moving to a very rural area in part to work on this. If we see a river every day, instead of a new cool mini cooper, perhaps we can slowly better appreciate the REAL good things in life. I have my doubts about whether this will "work", but am willing to try it. I desire to live a life NOT centered around paychecks and money. Thanks for the encouraging stories on this board.


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## cinnamonamon (May 2, 2003)

I Fly -- that was wonderful...







It just


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## Paxetbonum (Jul 16, 2003)

Dh makes 27,000 a year but more with his art jobs on the side.

We rent and are hoping to buy soon but really want to be out in the counrty so we can be more self-sufficient and live a more sustainable lifestyle. We also want to try and escape some of the materialism of our culture.

I am a SAHM but once we are out in the country (growing stuff, eating our own chickens and eggs, etc. my duties will be even more connected to our household economy.)

Our dream is for dh to do artwork from home.


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