# C section at 25 weeks?



## hypatia (Apr 29, 2002)

I just read this article from the New York Times by a woman whose doctor had recommended a C section at 25 weeks because she had severe preeclampsia and her baby was "in distress." Don't read this article if you're trying to avoid upsetting images. I was beyond horrified that anyone would deliberately deliver a baby that young.
But I'm wondering:
(1) How often are really early C sections like this done, and

(2) Surely this is the kind of thing even the obstetric community would condemn, I hope?


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## TurboClaudia (Nov 18, 2003)

Well, considering the allopathic medical community believes the only "cure" for pre-eclampsia is to birth the baby, it is not that surprising to me. In fact, a friend's co-worker experienced the same thing here and her baby was born via cesarean at 28 weeks. It made me very sad.

On the other hand, many practitioners in the "alternative" health community (many midwives, naturopaths, etc.) believe that a high-protein diet like the Brewer diet can "cure" pre-eclampsia nutritionally. I find this fascinating and completely in line with the allopathic fundamental of treating the symptoms and the complementary fundamentals of investigating and then treating the root cause.

warmly,
claudia


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

My stepmother had a c-section at 28 weeks. I was only 11, so I didn't know the reason but it sounds like it could have been pre-e. My sister weighed 1 lb 15 oz, so maybe there was IUGR too? Isn't that small for a baby of 28 weeks?


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## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

that is sick. and sad. and corrupt.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by TurboClaudia_
*Well, considering the allopathic medical community believes the only "cure" for pre-eclampsia is to birth the baby, it is not that surprising to me. In fact, a friend's co-worker experienced the same thing here and her baby was born via cesarean at 28 weeks. It made me very sad.

On the other hand, many practitioners in the "alternative" health community (many midwives, naturopaths, etc.) believe that a high-protein diet like the Brewer diet can "cure" pre-eclampsia nutritionally. I find this fascinating and completely in line with the allopathic fundamental of treating the symptoms and the complementary fundamentals of investigating and then treating the root cause.

warmly,
claudia*
I just want to say that I had pre-eclampsia in my last pregnancy. I did the "alternative" health things to "cure" it. At first I was on the Bradley pregnancy diet from the beginning and then switched to the Brewer diet. I "believed" that people who had pre-eclampsia had it because of their diet or other problems. Finally after about two months of trying to get to the cause of it my doctor informed me that sometimes you can eat all the right things, do all the right things and still have pre-eclampsia. Pre-eclampsia/eclampsia is dangerous and if you ever meet anyone who has lost a baby because of it or had seizures for blood pressure, maybe you wouldn't feel all that sad for this woman. We do not know what her diet was or how she lived her life.
While eating a high protein diet, etc. MAY prevent pre-eclampsia or treat it, I think when you start saying well if so and so would have done this they wouldn't have had this and this problem or had that intervention or that unnecessary csection. I know it sure wasn't nice for someone to ask me "Are you eating enough protien? Are you getting enough calcium?" or this or that -- like it was my fault I had high blood pressure and protein spilling into my urine.

Something to think about --


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

wow, how sad all around. first of all how dare they charge her with anything. If she had chosen to end that babies life she would have been well within her rights and no one would have said boo to her. But because she tried her best and made the best possible descision she could in light of the two horrible ones before her (no one here needs me to tell them that the odds aren't good for a baby, especially a twin deliveder at 25 weeks.) either way it was really a crap shoot if you think about. Gees, i can't even go on. what an awful story. I am so glad the lady writing had the guts to tell her story dso candidly. That is huge step for someone in the medical field to say and a huge thing for someone in the media to print. I commend them both.


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## SamuraiEarthMama (Dec 3, 2002)

i have a friend, who is just a few weeks ahead of me in her pregnancy, who was put onto bedrest today after several weeks of drug treatment for PIH. she's been diagnosed with toxemia (meaning she's got the swelling, the high blood pressure and the protein spilling into her urine). she's been doing all the things she's "supposed" to do and now she's living her worst fears.

while i have a lot of faith in birth and women's bodies and babies' ability to survive all sorts of problems... toxemia is one of the things that scares me. it's one of the few ways that women (and babies) are dying in pregnancy these days.

i've never witnessed a toxemia-induced siezure. i pray i never will. but when things get so far out of whack that it's a real danger, sadly an early c-section delivery can be the only chance of survival for both the baby and the mom.

i don't know what i would have done in this woman's situation. waiting for days could have resulted in walking a tightrope between her baby's preterm survival and her own risk of beginning siezures.

i know there are women on this board who have had to live with this decision (an early c-section and the death of a child due to toxemia). i hope they check in with their POV; i'd love to hear from them.

katje


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## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

Hi there, I am most pregnant women's walking nightmare. I had pre-eclampsia and a complication of pre-eclampsia called HELLP Syndrome.

I was exhausted, my bp was as high as 170/120 on a regular basis, I was on bedrest for a week. I could not pee for a day and when I finally did it was neon orange. My nose was bleeding 3 times a day for no reason at all andmy gums were bleeding for hours after I flossed. I had a pain in my right side that hurt so bad, I couldn't sit down, lie down, stand up, walk, breathe, hiccup, yawn or sneeze or even eat and dring with out excrucating pain.

This pain, I later found out, was my liver enlarging to the point of rupture. I had no red blood cells and no platelets to clot my blood. This went on for a week before I was finally admitted to the hospital.

I was admitted at 5:30 that night and within 4 hours I was going in for an ememrgency C-Section. I was 24 1/2 weeks pregnant. Because my platlets were so low, my blood was not clotting, they were afraid to give me a spinal for fear a blood clot would form in my spinal column and I would wind up paralyzed.

SO I was put under. The doctors sliced open my stomach and uterus and ripped my baby out. Her apgars were 1 and 0. There was nothing to be done except hold her with love. Except, surprise surprise, I am still under General ANesthesia. SO my precious babies soul flew to heaven without getting to say good bye to mama. If they had not taken her that night, I truly believe that within the week we both would have died. She was not getting enough sustenance, she suffered from IUGR and my placenta was already calcifying and abrupting. I would have gone into complete renal and hepatic failure and probably stroking in my brain. If I survived at all, it might have been as a vegetable. Pre-elampsia is world wide the number one cause of Maternal and infant death.

So here I am, having taken my sleeping pill so I can sleep through the night without waking up and searching for my baby, accusing my husband of hiding her or wondering who snatched her out of her carseat, only to truly wake up and realized she has been snatched from my arms forever.

Yeah, I guess you could say I have an opinion about this.

Gossamer


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

{{{{Gossamer}}}}}

When I was in highschool my friend had a similar experience, surprisingly her baby lived but was farther along than you. However my friend was in a coma from the seizures. I'll never forget seeing her the first time in ICU -- I could not recognize her from the swelling or bruising from the seizures she had. I was 17 at the time and it made a lasting impression on me.

I never swelled the first time in my pregnancy. I had the nose bleeds, the high BP, the protein in my urine, dizziness and seeing "floaters".


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## queencarr (Nov 19, 2001)

Gossamer and OTF, thank you! I am sure you said it better than I will, but just for the record, count me in as someone else who did "all the right things" and had preeclampsia TWICE. My first pg ended in an emergency cs at 30w. Were there things than could have been done better? Sure, but I did the high protein diet, salt to taste, exercise, etc. I will never forget the moment, as my bp was 220/170, my baby was in distress, I was barely conscious and I was going into renal failure, that I signed the consent forms for the cs. I asked my dr what would happen if I didn't sign. She looked me in the eye and said you will die. As it was, my bp continued to go higher before it came down, and my dr said they had never had someone as sick as me not have a heart attack or stroke.

Fast forward to 2nd pg, again I developed PE at around 28-29 weeks. I did EVERYTHING right this time, paranoid that I had somehow missed something the first time. I had heard so many stories of how it could be prevented, that I believed for a long time that I had done something "wrong" with ds. My second child was stillborn, although ironically her death was unrelated to the preeclampsia. However, until she was born we did not know that, and I labored believing that "it was my fault". As it stands, I will not be having any more children by birth unless and until a cure is found, as I have a virtually 100% chance of developing PE necessitating delivery by 36w, 50% chance 28-32w, and 5-10% chance at 24-28w.

For those of you who advocate Brewer/Bradley diets as prevention or a cure,
Please remember that nothing ever treats or cures anything, not allopathic or natural treatments, 100% of the time. I am sure you don't intend it this way, but how you come across to those of us who have had this condition (I am presuming for Gossamer and OTF, so correct me please if I am wrong) is that if we had only done this or that, everything would be okay--which translates to IT IS YOUR FAULT. Good nutrition helps to statistically decrease the likelihood of developing PE and often makes for more resilient babies in those who have it (both of my babies were large for age), but it is not the cure all that it is sometimes made out to be. Research shows there are multiple causes for PE, related to genetic tendencies, clotting disorders, kidney defects/diseases, nutritional deficiencies, as well as unknown causes. It is the leading cause of maternal death worldwide and in developed countries. In pg where PE is present, the babies are often IUGR.

hypatia,

To answer your questions, cs for PE are done when the life of the mother is in grave danger regardless of gest age or when the baby is in true distress due to the hostile conditions in the mother's body. If a woman is 2nd trimester or early 3rd, they will wait as long as they can, but it is a progressive disease that only gets worse with time (if they are 34w or so they will often deliver unless it is very mild). Looking at it another way, the baby is at risk in an unhealthy body and outside the womb. Sometimes remaining in the womb is more dangerous than being delivered early, and when that happens delivery is indicated. Usually by that point the mother is also very ill. If you want more info on PE, http://www.preclampsia.org has good information.


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## 3bees~1flower (Feb 24, 2003)

i'm also one who had to deliver early due to PE...in my case, my biggest problem was the protein i was spilling...in the 24 hr urine collection that was collected before they decided i had been preg long enough, the protein measured 11 grams...severe pre-eclampsia is considered 5 grams in a 24 hr period. so i had to deliver at 33 wks. thankfully ds was very healthy not even needing to be intubated. i had recieved steroid shots for his lung delvelopment b/c of an anticipated early delivery. i had to have a c-section b/c ds was double footling breech...tried an external version but that didn't work....and what a painful thing. so he was born c-section.

.


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## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

I'm glad everyone is posting so candidly on this subject, and I thank you all for sharing your stories.

I am a nurse at a birth center. We have had great success treating early preeclampsia with diet changes, counselling, and occasionally herbs and supplements, but great success does not translate to 100% success. We still occasionally have a mama who needs to be induced or have a c-section immediately. An eclamptic mama is a horrible thing to see as a care giver. It is an awful decision to make, sending her for a section when you know her baby is possibly not ready for life outside of the womb.

But, when a mama gets to that point, what decision is there left to be made? Certainly a mama has the right, I feel, to decline a section. But does her family still reserve the right to sue us for wrongful death, in the event that she dies? Yes. And in your heart of hearts, if you honestly feel a section is the best for the mama, how does it feel to stand by and watch her die? I dont' know. The very few times we have had to intervene, the mamas have been in agreement with us on the course of action.

Birth is not a 100% given. One of the reasons we having to fight to keep VBACs an option is that doctors have been sued out the ears for a uterine rupture. In our town, a doc was sued for damages to the baby during a severe shoulder dystocia. The settlement was huge. I thought, good lord, would you rather a dead baby? Or an automatic c-section for every baby that might possibly be over 7 pounds? Death is a part of life, and sometimes, many times, we are not ready for the appointed time. Those who have some "control" over life and death, parent, doctors, nurses, there is agony over the "what ifs" of it all. We are told not to play god, but then blamed when we do not adequately take up the role of god. It is a difficult decision, from whatever angle you come from.

Sorry, I'm just rambling. Gossamer's post in particular got to me. I think we all honestly try to make the best decision with our available knowledge, and then we must live with that. I'm sorry you feel you didn't get to say good bye, Gossamer. Maybe you didn't need to say goodbye. Maybe there will be a hello again, sometime.

I guess the best we can all do is to continue to be educated advocates for ourselves and our babies and our patients. Doing what we do with respect and love for all humans, no matter how tiny or how old.

Okay, sorry, I'm basically just doing the stream of consciousness typing thing. I'll stop now!

Lori


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

I agree with Kim....I think that sometimes, regardless of diet, pre-eclampsia happens. It's highly misunderstood. Surely if it was as easy as large levels of protein then everyone would do it, right? Doctors *hate* pre-eclampsia. It can turn very scary quickly. I think if protein was the cure, it would be done.

There have been a number of studies done through the Cochrane Database that show that high protein diets do not adequately prevent pre-eclampsia.

I wish it did.









Doesn't stop me from recommending lots of protein in pregnancy. I usually only recommend 60-80 grams a day, though. I recommend it because women need more protein and it helps curb sugar cravings.


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## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by pamamidwife_
*I agree with Kim....I think that sometimes, regardless of diet, pre-eclampsia happens. It's highly misunderstood. Surely if it was as easy as large levels of protein then everyone would do it, right? Doctors *hate* pre-eclampsia. It can turn very scary quickly. I think if protein was the cure, it would be done.

There have been a number of studies done through the Cochrane Database that show that high protein diets do not adequately prevent pre-eclampsia.

I wish it did.









Doesn't stop me from recommending lots of protein in pregnancy. I usually only recommend 60-80 grams a day, though. I recommend it because women need more protein and it helps curb sugar cravings.*
I hope alot of doulas and child birth educators are reading this thread, mainly because of what you said above and the experiences of several women here who have had some very dangerous problems that had catastrophic results. I can't think of how many times well meaning women who are natural mommas and birth advocates acted as if I did something wrong to cause preeclampsia or have said so about other women.


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## TurboClaudia (Nov 18, 2003)

I'm a doula and childbirth educator and a soon-to-be-new-mom, and I am reading this thread with great interest. Mine was the first reply to the original post where I wrote that the allopathic medical community believes the only "cure" for pre-eclampsia is to birth the baby while the complementary health community is more willing to consider there are other nutritionally-based "cures". I am trying very hard to understand if some of you find fault with the way I worded my post since I try very hard to be understanding and accepting and validating of all women's experiences. I purposefully framed the word "cure" in quotes because I do understand that pre-eclampsia sometimes results in death or severe physical dysfunction. If my post offended you, please help me understand why so that I can adjust my future communications with women to be more validating of their experience.

Thank you.

--claudia


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## 3bees~1flower (Feb 24, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by TurboClaudia_
*I'm a doula and childbirth educator and a soon-to-be-new-mom, and I am reading this thread with great interest. Mine was the first reply to the original post where I wrote that the allopathic medical community believes the only "cure" for pre-eclampsia is to birth the baby while the complementary health community is more willing to consider there are other nutritionally-based "cures". I am trying very hard to understand if some of you find fault with the way I worded my post since I try very hard to be understanding and accepting and validating of all women's experiences. I purposefully framed the word "cure" in quotes because I do understand that pre-eclampsia sometimes results in death or severe physical dysfunction. If my post offended you, please help me understand why so that I can adjust my future communications with women to be more validating of their experience.

Thank you.

--claudia*
i, for one, did find that a little offensive...why? b/c you make it sound as if it *is* indeed something the woman has done/nor done to cause it...that's exactly what i thought when i read it. if you have evidence that PE can be "cured" from natural, healthy living, above and beyond how one was already living, i would be very interested in reading it.
for me, delivery was the ONLY "cure", so to say that it's just the mdeical community trying to be controling or whatever you feel, is just not an accurate statement. as an OB nurse, all the PE-ic women i have seen have been restored to "normal" health after delivery. i would be interested to know why you think that delivery ISN'T the only cure.

respectfully,


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

The impression I get is that high-protein diets may be helpful in preventing pre-e, but won't do much good if you start the diet after you already develop the condition.

Even though preventative treatments don't always work, I see no harm in recommending them. It should be obvious to pregnant women not to starve themselves, or limit salt or to worry about weight gain anyway; I see it as just good common sense and not a way to prevent disease.

It didn't work for my stepmom, and she is very into health and nutrition. I guess no one will ever know what went wrong there. But I'm still trying to get all the protein I can.


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## 3bees~1flower (Feb 24, 2003)

Greaseball -- i agree with your last post! you said that very well. and one must remember too, that the *true* cause of PE is a total mystery to the whole medical community. so to say that with diet and healthy living it can be reversed or whatever, i feel, is quite misleading. i find it mislwading, b/c a woman may do all the *right* things and still get PE and then she gets into the whole self-blame issues b/c she thinks that all she had to do was eat healthy and live healthy. that is as dagmaing as anything by leading a woman to believe these things.


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## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

Quote:

the *true* cause of PE is a total mystery to the whole medical community
I think this is the crux of the whole thing. In this day and age it is hard for anyone to imagine that the cause is not known, and if the cause is not known, then it can happen to anybody. SO a lot of women feel the need to point their finger at something "not enough protein", "Not enough exercise", "Too overweight", so they can then breathe a huge sigh of relief and tell themselves, "That can't happen to me because ....". Well you know what, it can happpen to anybody. Yes, some women have a higher risk, but nobody is excluded. You can do everything right and still wind up with a dead baby. And nobody wants to hear that.
Gossamer


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## arthead (Nov 25, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by 3boyz4us_
*i, for one, did find that a little offensive...why? b/c you make it sound as if it *is* indeed something the woman has done/nor done to cause it...that's exactly what i thought when i read it.*
I didn't take what she said as the mother doing something wrong at all! ... seemed to me that Claudia was just pointing out that sometimes modern med rushes into things without attempting other solutions first, yk? & that maybe she has seen early cases of pre-e turn around with a change of diet. just my PO


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## 3bees~1flower (Feb 24, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by arthead_
*I didn't take what she said as the mother doing something wrong at all! ... seemed to me that Claudia was just pointing out that sometimes modern med rushes into things without attempting other solutions first, yk? & that maybe she has seen early cases of pre-e turn around with a change of diet. just my PO*

maybe i didn't make it clear, but that was just how *I* felt, sorry if that was unclear.

one can't forget that this can be a very fast progressing problem and sometimes there is just not time to see if a prolonged changed in diet will reverse PE...i pointed out that if she has read or seen PE reverse due to a change in diet or whatever else, i would be very intrigued to read/hear about it.

i think Greaseball hit the nail on the head...a high protein diet, generally healthy diey *may* help prevent PE from devloping, but once you have it, there isn't really much to do to completely reverse it....unless someone has proof of that otherwise.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

I haven't read all the replies yet, but I just wanted to add that a tiny preemie is better than a baby who dies in utero. The risks are not as bad for the baby outside the womb if the baby is in distress and the mothers health is in danger. I had a preemie taken c section early for the very same reasons. It was neccesary. There is less risk of increased distress doing a c section for a preemie.


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## queencarr (Nov 19, 2001)

Claudia, I did find your post a bit...uncomfortable, mainly because there is the element of blame the mother, even though not intended. I think that when you are talking mild vs early and severe PE, you are talking two different situations. Mild PE can sometimes be "managed" until a healthier date for baby, but it is still not cured. Severe, early onset PE is a nightmare in the worst way, it is quick and deadly, with little or no warning. I have spoken with people who have seen PE reversed or stalled with diet changes, etc., but only mild situations. I think it is good to suggest a higher protein healthy diet, as it increases your chances of a healthy pregnancy and as greaseball said, is good common sense. But please don't suggest it as a cure or even a potential cure. Does it reduce the statistical chance if PE developing? Maybe in some women, but the studies are conflicting, probably because some studies exclude very early PE or very mild PE, or PE that progresses to E. Women and babies die from this everyday, if the cure were so simple, this would not be the case.

On a personal note, it took me 4 years to decide to get pg the second time. I had finally convinced myself that it was not my fault, and it was a lot of "work" to get to that point. Unless you have lived it you cannot know the horror of agreeing to let them cut you open even though your baby may be too premature to survive to save your own life. Or watching your child struggle in the NICU to breathe, knowing that every painful, invasive intervention is what is keeping your child from death. When we discovered in my 2nd pg that I again had PE and then couldn't find a heartbeat, I just _knew_ that it was my fault all over again. It undid every bit of progress I had made in that area from my first pg. We were actually happy, as morbid as it sounds, that a cause of death other than PE was so obvious. But in my dreams and bad days, I still wonder if it was the PE and not the cord injury that killed her, and have to consciously work at not feeling guilty for deciding to get pg again.

I think it is important that as a woman working in childbirth education, to be aware that about 5% (some estimates are even higher) of pregnancies have this. That means that 1 in every 20 women you will work with have gone through this or will. Women who have lost a child or had a preemie have already spent a long time blaming themselves no matter what actually happened, because it is the nature of the beast to do so. Even the hint of "if only you had done x,y or z" can be enough to instill guilt and fear in women who are already anxious about another pg. I am not trying to be harsh, but this is the way it is for many women who have had a traumatic pg. I hope this explains wat I was trying to say earlier more clearly. Again, I don't want cause hurt feelings, but I think the level of responses about this show you how touchy a subject this is for women who have been there. Please feel free to visit my daughter's website for a more "personal" perspective of our experiences Samantha's webpage

edited for clarity


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## Lula's Mom (Oct 29, 2003)

Wow. So sorry to all of you who have had losses or complications from PE. I was fortunate not to have it in my first pregnancy, so I have no firsthand experience in it. This is obviously a topic where emotions are running high, and I do not wish to offend *anybody*.

I am just curious about something I read about when I was pregnant in 2001 as a treatment/prevention for PE: Vitamin C. A girl in my childbirth class had PE, and I was looking on the web for some way to help her and came across a couple of articles and studies showing that taking lots of Vitamin C could help. Has anybody else heard of this, or have you tried it?

(When I told the girl about it, she and the Bradley instructor looked at me like I was wacky, so I am pretty sure she never tried it.)

I'm just learning more about the benefits of taking a lot of C- my daughter came down with pertussis and the C just wiped it out in a week. I was amazed. It seems like a wonder "drug", but I do take the hype with a grain of salt. Anybody have thoughts on it in regards to PE?


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## 3bees~1flower (Feb 24, 2003)

i don't know about Vit C, but when i was in my first preg and dealing with PE, my dr told me that with each preg i had after that he wanted me to take high dose calcium carbonate and a baby asparin daily. so that is what i did with my 2nd, 3rd, and now 4th preg. i have had no more problems with PE. the studies say these two *may* help in *possibly* preventing a recurrance, but i still have the biggest risk factor of getting PE, which is having had it once before. it doesn't hurt anything to take it, so that is what i do.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

Maybe in some women, but the studies are conflicting, probably because some studies exclude very early PE or very mild PE, or PE that progresses to E.
I don't see how they can do studies on pre-e when they would have to deliberately withhold a possible cure from the control group. That would be unethical. All we have to go on are observational studies.

It doesn't make sense to me that doctors still sometimes tell overweight women that they don't have to gain any weight at all while pregnant. Doesn't the baby still need food? The baby doesn't care how much the mother weighs; it just wants to eat. Even if it doesn't always lead to pre-e, it sounds just plain unhealthy.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

A woman on my birth board *died* because of pre-e, and so did her baby boy. It was shocking to say the least, and a real wake up call to how serious pre-e can be for some women and babies.

There was another woman on my birth board whose baby was taken very early due to pre-e. I forgot how early but he only weighed 1 pound 5 oz. It was done to save her life, and they were going to do all they could for the baby, too, but she would have died if they had not taken the baby. They baby spent 5 mos. in NICU and just came home this week, so happy ending for that family.

Darshani


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## queencarr (Nov 19, 2001)

Greaseball, there are randomized studies for nutritional supplementation. I am pressed for time, so I will only list 2. The first link is a single study, the second is a systematic review of several randomized studies. For overall dietary info, they are allobservational/report studies, with diet recall info compared for groups that developed PE vs those that did notfrom what I have found.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=14678093
Dietary supplementation with L-arginine or placebo in women with pre-eclampsia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=12768949
Calcium supplementation to prevent pre-eclampsia--a systematic review.

DESIGN: A systematic review of randomised trials that compared supplementation with at least 1 g calcium daily during pregnancy with placebo.

In talking with our perinatologist, he told us that if I chose to get pregnant again, he recommended additional calcium, vit E, vit C, folic acid, and baby aspirin. At worst they would do nothing but are not harmful, and they might help. Just as an FYI , I took all of these in high doses (except baby aspirin as I have aspirin sensitive asthma--I have since done aspirin desensitization and now take baby aspirin daily) in both of my pregnancies in addition to the Brewer/Bradley diet, I also took a good prenatal, B-50 complex, and in my first pg inositol and garlic tablets. I was also never encouraged to not gain weight, even though I was overweight in both pg. I was encouraged to gain at least 25lbs. the biggest thing they watched for was not losing weight and gaining steadily.


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## gossamer (Feb 28, 2002)

Quote:

I was also never encouraged to not gain weight, even though I was overweight in both pg. I was encouraged to gain at least 25lbs. the biggest thing they watched for was not losing weight and gaining steadily.
How ironic. I was told not to gain a single pound during 9 months of pregnancy because I am overweight. So in the course of the 6 months I was pregnant with my precious little girl, I lost 30 pounds. And every time I went to the doctor I was congratulated on losing so much weight. Makes me just want to hurt the Dr. for being so judgmental and ignorant about my health and my daughter's life.





































Gossamer


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I wonder if that could have happened with my stepmom? She has always been 50 lbs overweight so perhaps she was told not to gain. Also, at the time, she was living in the Alaska bush in a town of 750 people that is only accessible by plane, with no doctors in sight. Anyone who has to see a doctor flies to Anchorage. I wonder how progressive the care is? I hear that Alaska has the highest c/s rate in the U.S.


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## queencarr (Nov 19, 2001)

Gossamer, I am once again so, so sorry. It sounds like they treated you poorly from the start. When will these people learn? I was counseled a bit more on my weight in my first pg (I was automatically high risk because of it, and was consequently stressed because of that, but I had no choice of dr's due to the military), but was still encouraged to gain, they just sent me to a nutritionist







: to make sure I was eating healthy. I was also veg at the time, so that freaked them out a bit, kept the focus there I think







instead of my weight, they were worried I wasn't eating enough! My second pg, my dr was/is so wonderful. When I had ms, they were concerned because I wasn't gaining much. With both pg, I was back to pre pg weight within a week, after the swelling had gone away.

Greaseball, I know that my Mom was encouraged to not gain more than about 10 lbs, so perhaps it is a generational thing? I don't think she was overweight at the time. I think the key is good common sense all around--25lbs of weight gain from twinkies is not a good thing, but 25lbs from healthy food shouldn't be a problem, YK? I think lack of respect is a big issue as well, many dr's assume women are overweight because of lack of willpower or something and treat them rudely as a result.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by queencarr_
*Greaseball, I know that my Mom was encouraged to not gain more than about 10 lbs, so perhaps it is a generational thing? I don't think she was overweight at the time. I think the key is good common sense all around--25lbs of weight gain from twinkies is not a good thing, but 25lbs from healthy food shouldn't be a problem, YK? I think lack of respect is a big issue as well, many dr's assume women are overweight because of lack of willpower or something and treat them rudely as a result.*
This was in 1990. Again, I don't know exactly what went wrong or what she was told, but I think it must have been pre-e; why else would they do a c-section that early?

I think some doctors today still believe that a fetus can live off maternal fat stores, and that what matters the most is the number of pounds gained and not the quality of the mother's food.

I read something from one woman who has a c/s against her will and the whole time, the doctor was complaining about how hard it was to do a c/s on an overweight woman.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Who knows...


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## Lula's Mom (Oct 29, 2003)

I always feel skeptical and weird when I hear someone say that their doctor told them not to gain any weight while pregnant because they're already overweight. First of all, you need to eat to grow a baby, not cut back on calories! And then, when you break down the typical weight gain, you see that not that much of it is fat anyway. You've got 7-9 pounds of baby, 2 pounds of placenta, 2 pounds of amniotic fluid, 2 pounds of uterus, 4 pounds of blood, not to mention retained water and huge breasts that add up to another few pounds! In order to stay at your pre-pregnancy weight, you'd have to diet off 15-20 pounds while pregnant! I know there are problems caused by being overweight. But it just doesn't seem right to effectively lose weight while you're pregnant.

Just for disclosure purposes, I am not overweight. I am 5'9", 151 pounds- 2 pounds less than before my first pregnancy. But I gained 45 pounds with my daughter, and my midwife had no problem with that.


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## Rach (Nov 11, 2003)

Another PreE person here. I had PIH. Gradually my blood pressure was getting higher, but nothing else was wrong, so my doctor did nothing.
At 34 weeks, I had been short winded for months, and I started getting hot and sweaty after doing so much as getting up to walk to the bathroom. I got severe migranes that didn't go away with anything but chocolate [go figure!] and even then, they kept coming back. I did see spots for one day, but I kept it easy, laid back with my feet up and drank tons of water.
When I had my appointment that week, my blood pressure was 2something over 150! It was absurdly ridiculously high. They made me lay down for 5 minutes and checked again. STill high. Then they laid me on my side and waited again. Still high. I was sent to the hospital for blood work and my doctor had no choice but to send me to Phoenix to have my baby due to lack of NICU at our hospital. In her opinion, my baby should have been taken out right then.
I was on magnesium sulfate for 3 days. It was the worst 3 days of my life! I was on complete bedrest for the first day, then I was allowed bathroom priveleges but that was it. On the 4th day they took me off the mag and made me walk around. Surprise, surprise my blood pressure went through the roof. They put me back on bedrest, but since I was almost 35 weeks, they wanted to send me home.
With all that trouble, they weren't monitoring my urine [they thought it was just PIH] and surprise surprise, a blood test showed problems with my kidneys..they were failing. I talked them into inducing me, but during labor, your blood pressure rises, and having this condition makes it downright dangerous to have that happen. [A woman on one of my pregnancy boards at the time had a pre e seizure and was in a coma for 2 weeks.] So I was on pitocin, which makes your uterus contract, yet had to be on mag, which forces your muscles to relax to keep your blood pressure down. Not a good combination. After almost 12 hours, I was still at a 5, my daughter's heart rate dropped dangerously low [the 30s] and I had an emergency C-Section.
My daughter also suffered mild IUGR as she was only 4 1/2 pounds, but was healthier than most full term newborns. She had problems regulating her temperature, and didn't know how to eat, but after 3 days, she was fine.

Pre-Eclampsia is a deadly condition for both mother and baby. If the baby is taken too early it could die, but if the baby is taken too late, the mother could die.
It's kind of hard to prevent it or fix it, when they aren't even sure what causes it. Basically, they say, it's like our bodies are allergic to our babies..or our bodies just don't like being pregnant.


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## orangemustang (Mar 25, 2004)

I'm not sure if I am thinking of the same lady or not...but the one I saw was prego with twins and refused surgery because she didnt want a scar...thats it, the only reason. And her baby died, the other one did live.
from what I read she was "slow" if you know what I mean


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## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

Actually, that is another issue. And the woman has denied saying that. She had two previous c-sections, so the accusation that she didn't want a scar seems unlikely. Check out the activism forum, there's more there on this subject. It is an extremely strange situation, and there definately is something not being told, on both sides of the issue. Something is rotten in Utah.

I don't know if she was "slow" but it sounds like she had some mental illness issues and had fallen through the radar.

Lori


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## Attila the Honey (Mar 15, 2003)

Gossamer









There is so much about your story that is similar to mine, only it happened to me at 35 weeks. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't express gratitude from the depths of my soul that my body was able to hold on that long!

When I was induced my liver was inflamed and causing me pain far, far beyond the pain of the pitocin contractions. I had been taking herbs and vitamins as per my midwife's suggestion for weeks. I had been on high protein since the moment I found out I was pregnant. I had been on bedrest for several weeks. I educated myself like crazy, took bradley classes, and consulted with every type of healer I could find. It still wasn't enough, I became very ill with pre-eclampsia. I was told that the baby was still doing well, but I was seriously ill and it was time to induce. My daughter was 5lbs 11oz but healthy, thank God.

I am a firm believer in nutritional healing, and the Brewer diet, along with bradley childbirth instruction, but it isn't a cure-all, as many ppl believe. Sometimes we do our very best and we still get sick.


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## marchmom19 (Jan 21, 2002)

Hi there

Just got word that my good friend is in hospital for emergency csection due to her low blood pressure, dizziness and kidney problem. Not sure if its preclamsia. Her baby is 28 weeks.

She really wanted to be able to nurse her baby. Can anyone tell me how preemies can nurse? Not sure if mother will need to take medication after operation to treat her kidney...perhaps she can pump and dump until she can nurse baby?

I have seen preemies fed breastmilk thru eye dropper. any other tips??

Thanks. I want to have lots of info on hand so I can offer my friend when I visit her. First thing that she is in good condition.

Thanks for all your help


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## taradt (Jun 10, 2003)

our little one wasn't that early but there were others in the NICU that were. what out hospital did is the mother pumped and they feed the baby whatever way they were doing (some bottle, some tubes) and if they felt they needed more they topped with formula (this i didn't agree with but that is a whole other rant







) they seemed to allow the parents to nurse as soon as the babies were stable (though i think the babies would have done better having the close contactright from the beginning). have your friend rent a hospital grade pump and she will have to pump at the same rate a newborn would nurse (every 1 - 2 hours all day long) to get up a supply.

good luck to them

tara


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