# whole foods vs. vegetarian vs. nourishing traditions



## sunnylady303 (Sep 17, 2004)

I am confused and lost about different ways of eating with my family. I want to know how other moms decided the right way to go. Whole foods makes sense and can be used with both of the other two. Vegetarianism has always felt right to me on some kind of gut level, but all the reasons that I have dug up for it seem to be contradicted by the NT stuff. But the NT stuff seems too...I don't know...out there, maybe. Of course - a year ago I would have said that CDing, BFing, cosleeping, organic produce, and no ASH free range meat would be way out there. I think I am a whole different person as a result of being a mom. What an incentive to examine all the things in life I previously took for granted. Anyway...give me information on how you decided what was right for your family. I like there to be one right answer and I know there isn't, but I do want some input and support. Thanks!!


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## FoxintheSnow (May 11, 2004)

What exactly does NT mean? Then I can answer your question.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I was a whole foods vegan for about four years before I was pregnant and grew up in a whole foods vegetarian family -- we ate most of our food right out of our own organic garden. But when I had my child at 33 I had depression in pregnancy and then postpartum. I had blood, urine, and hair analyses that showed underlying deficiencies causing the depression -- amino acids, lithium, and a host of others. I also ended up with a monster case of candida (two rounds of antibiotics with the c/s) and that led me to a Nourishing Traditions-like diet. I was still not convinced until I got a new drivers license and looked at the picture compared to my old pic (taken in my vegan days). Same body weight. As a vegan I looked like my plump older sister. I just about cried "you mean I have to stay on this diet forever?"







The pictures were striking evidence. And I haven't turned back.


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## sunnylady303 (Sep 17, 2004)

Sorry - NT is Nourishing Traditions.


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## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

I was vegetarian for about 12 years, and ventured into veganism on occasion through that time. You know, I never realized how bad I felt until I started eating meat again and discovered how much better I felt. I have more energy, far fewer food cravings (I find it much easier to control my appetite and sweet tooth,) I focus my attention better, I'm less cranky and stressed out, and I'm controlling my weight better and with less effort (i.e. without constantly feeling like I'm depriving myself because I'm constantly hungry.)

However, I've known lots of people who swear they became far healthier when they cut out the meat. Now, one *might* argue that it was because they were going from processed diets full of factory farm meat to whole foods diets, even though the diets are veg. I don't know.

All I know is, after studying this for years (as an amateur), I've come to the conclusion that the only thing that's right for *everyone* is whole foods. Beyond that, whether you eat meat or not, or eschew grains, or eat entirely raw, or whatever, what is best for you seems to be whatever you find feels best. Whatever you seem to thrive on.

I'd say, go whichever way you feel you'll be able to cook most easily. See how you feel for a couple months, then switch to the other route and see how you feel when you add or cut out the meat.


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

I was a whole foods vegan throughout pregnancy and the first year or so of lactation, and suffered from terrible PPD and a host of other health problems. After my DD developed tooth decay we switched to a Nourishing Traditions-like diet. Her decay stabilized, she became more mentally alert and started growing a lot, and mine and DH's health problems either got better or disappeared. And I was not a junk food vegan at all, we ate absolutely no packaged foods, no alcohol, caffeine, drugs or chocolate, and cooked everything from scratch.

However, there are a few vegan mamas that have spoken up here that their health and DC's health are great. So I think it depends on the individual how you react to certain diets. We are all different, and have different needs.

Good luck with your decision!

ETA: I forgot to say that some people do really well as vegetarians, but cannot sustain veganism. Other people do poorly as vegetarians but thrive as vegans.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Well, I'll try not to get into the battles with those here who feel that their way is the only way for everyone, but here's my experience.

I think that whole foods can be done on a variety of diets - vegetarian, vegan & NT (although I have no personal experience with that diet). I think (?) that most of us will agree that going as whole as possible is healthier regardless of whether you choose to pursue that as a veg*n or an omni.

I, personally, was o/l vegi for three years btwn the ages of 13 and 16 and then became vegan at 16. I have been vegan for 16 years now. Initially, I didn't eat a particularly balanced vegi diet & I think that is a trap that one needs to watch on many diets - relying too heavily on dairy, eggs, processed foods, packaged foods, etc. It takes more time, but the more that you can cook from scratch, the better. I try to buy and prepare items that are as close to their natural state as possible.

For me, the choice to become vegan was based on moral reasoning, but it has proven to be very health supporting for me and my children. We are making an effort to buy as much local produce and organic food as possible currently & I am looking into CSAs for the next growing season. I find that, those foods which have positive effects on the health of my family also have positive effects on the environment and our fellow creatures. It is all one nice big circle of life. When we buy organic, we avoid pesticide build-up in our bodies & we also help the environment. Looking at it from either a vegi or omni perspective, when one avoids eating factory farmed meat and animal products (either by not eating animal products at all or making a choice to buy them from someone who treats their animals better), you are helping your own health and having less of an impact on the environment as well as minimizing animal suffering.


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## Erin Pavlina (Nov 11, 2001)

I grew up on an omni diet and suffered from a lot of ailments. I went vegetarian and things didn't really improve. When I went vegan, 95% of my health problems disappeared, never to return. The idea of putting meat or dairy products back into my diet after this experience was like asking me to start eating poison again.

I believe there is a difference between "feeling good" when you eat, and "being healthy." I used to feel good when I ate an omni diet, probably due to the opiate like effects of cheese and comfort foods like Big Macs. But my health was suffering. Just like a heroin addict "feels good" when they're high, but I'd hardly call their drug use healthy.

But no one diet is right for everyone. My advice is to try both diets for 30 days and see how you feel, and see if you become healthier or not. Then decide for yourself. You can read all you want, but experience is best.

When I went vegan my triglycerides dropped from 390 to 144. My cholesterol dropped 50 points immediately. And as I mentioned, nearly all of my chronic health problems disappeared into the night.

I am also vegan for moral reasons and can't imagine being able to eat an animal without feeling like a murderer, so for me, vegan is the way to go.

I wholeheartedly agree that a whole foods diet is very important. I know a lot of people who are junk food vegans (sugar and refined white flour) and that is not healthy either.


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## Mountain Chick (Sep 8, 2004)

I would like to throw something new into the ring and get some feedback about this subject.
A co-worker is on the Eat Right 4 Your Type diet, which is the diet for blood types. At first I was like, "yeah, whatever", but then I read the book. It says that just like blood has antigens and can't be given to just any other blood type, food has lectins that can react to your blood type. Foods go into three catagories, foods that act like medicine, foods that act like food, and foods that act like poison. To give an example, O blood types can't eat potatoes because they have a lectin that disagrees with the blood type, it isn't digested and it goes through the blood stream to the joints. Once in the joints it starts aglunating (glueing) other tissue to itself. This results in arthritis.
In reading the above posts I picked up things like "I feel better eating meat, have clarity of mind and more energy" or "I had a gut instinct to do vegitarian". Maybe it has more to do with what your blood type needs than we realize. Other wise why would some people do great as vegetarians and others not.
The lady who said she had a gut instinct to eat vegetarian, is your blood type A, which according to the book makes you the vegetarian type. (Don't really answer that, blood type is personal, just using it for example).
So, has anyone else checked into this "eat for your blood type" diet? What do you all think? Feedback ladies?


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## guerrillamama (Oct 27, 2003)

what is nourishing traditions?


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:

what is nourishing traditions?
Nourishing Traditions


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## kavamamakava (Aug 25, 2004)

My choice to be a vegetarian (not vegan) is one based on the desire to practice non-violence. I can get dairy products from animals without doing them harm which can supply me with the animal protein I incorporate in my diet. I was raised Hindu vegetarian and it's what I know and it is ingrained in my repertoire of recipes and cooking. I'm not one for dieting or switching much so that's just how I eat. On days when I'm feeling a lack of nutrients, I have a big salad, whole wheat chapatis and rice and lentil stew. Whole foods seems like a no-brainer to me. Processing the heck out of food removes the nutrients...at the same time, animals process the food too. So I'd rather get my nutrition from the source instead of from an animal that has digested it.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mountain Chick*
In reading the above posts I picked up things like "I feel better eating meat, have clarity of mind and more energy" or "I had a gut instinct to do vegitarian". Maybe it has more to do with what your blood type needs than we realize. Other wise why would some people do great as vegetarians and others not.

I don't personally buy the rationale behind that book & it is my understanding that anthropologists have stated that blood types did not develop in the way that the author of the book claims. Of the vegans whom I know, at least half of them do not have blood types that would be consistent with a vegi diet according to Eating Right for Your Type -mostly type O.

It does seem that some people do better on some types of diets, but I am personally not convinced that it has anything to do with blood type.


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## kavamamakava (Aug 25, 2004)

Yeah. I am O and I pretty much eat everything on the do not eat this if you are O list and nothing from the list of foods O people should eat.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

I too was wondering this very same thing until I read Nourishing Traditions and put it into practice. And I have to say I feel much better now that I have. I crave fats, and since reading this book have actually allowed myself butter, some of the fat off my steak, etc, and I already feel much better. I've had unexplained kidney pain for a couple of years and my kidneys finally stopped hurting!
I also feel that eating this way was a moral decision for me. I am a part of the earth, not separate from her, and so eating wild and free range meat is a part of my and my descendants survival. IMHO the animals contribute to the fertility of the soil in a way that we would not be able to if we only grew grains and veggies (without using artificial fertilizers). My only other moral option would be to forage my own food from wild areas, and live in a hut in the middle of the woods







(which I would love to do if I could).


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I'm type A and crashed and burned on the type of diet he recommends in the book. (And his argument about the development of tribes and blood types isn't logical. I never bought it.)


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Well, we have the Nourishing Traditions vs. Vegetarian or Vegan argument around here pretty constantly. But you aren't going to find anyone here who says, "Eat refined flour and sugar, pre-packaged, pre-made items with lots of preservatives and other additives." No one here says, "why are you avoiding pesticides, don't you know they build character?" :LOL

So I think you should find a good affordable source of whole, preferrably locally grown food: lots of dark leafy green vegetables, bright orange vegetables, whole grains. If you want to eat meat, it should meet your standards for ethical animal husbandry, no hormones, low/no antibiotics, etc. If you eat dairy products and eggs, same deal. Everyone is going to disagree about animal products, you have to decide what you want to have for dinner!

One advantage for me of becoming vegetarian is that I started trying a lot of things I didn't eat growing up: bean dishes, fermented foods, tahini, olive oil, and also Asian cuisines. I sure didn't grow up eating this spicy stuff! Vegetables in my mom's house were always frozen from a bag and always kind of dull. My diet has been a lot more enjoyable since I became an adult and learned to cook from scratch.

A big component of good health is enjoying your food. It should feel like real food to you, it should look and smell good, and it shouldn't require you to use up your child's college fund to buy groceries. Also, you should not feel guilty about what you put in your mouth.


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

You said it, Cpt. O!!!

I'm vegan, type O, and I LUUUUUUUUV potatoes! I don't buy that diet either - and not because of a vegan v. omni perspective. Our genes are a bit different from our ancestors - not to mention the fact that most of us have genes made up of different groups from around the world who evolved to eat different types of foods. What is my Native America/Puerto Rican/Irish friend supposed to eat?

One thing I will say is that since I've been vegan, as CO said, I eat a MUCH wider variety of foods than I used to - new recipes, new combinations, much more green vegetables, more raw foods, and much wider sources of my vitamins. It's much more fun to eat!


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## UC MOM (Jun 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnylady303*
I am confused and lost about different ways of eating with my family. I want to know how other moms decided the right way to go. Whole foods makes sense and can be used with both of the other two. Vegetarianism has always felt right to me on some kind of gut level, but all the reasons that I have dug up for it seem to be contradicted by the NT stuff. But the NT stuff seems too...I don't know...out there, maybe. Of course - a year ago I would have said that CDing, BFing, cosleeping, organic produce, and no ASH free range meat would be way out there. I think I am a whole different person as a result of being a mom. What an incentive to examine all the things in life I previously took for granted. Anyway...give me information on how you decided what was right for your family. I like there to be one right answer and I know there isn't, but I do want some input and support. Thanks!!


Kristin,
I have done them all. I think the bottom line at this point, now that I have teens and kids all different ages, and am still nursing, is coming up with meals that the whole family can enjoy and eat together, rather than having food wars in my own home.

My kids have really struggled since attending public school. They see all this junk food that the friends have and they want it to. So we compromised. I make a healthy, usually vegetarian grain based breakfast - cracked wheat cereal, oatmeal, pancakes, etc... with fresh fruit, then they take prepared foods for lunch - they love mac and cheese heated in the microwave (easy mac), banquet dinners (ten for ten dollars is cheaper than the school lunch and also microwavable) - I make sandwiches, give them chips and crackers and they have to take one live food. Then I make a nourishing traditions supper. Occasionally I will make a vegetarian meal, but mostly it is meat based and cooked to Sally's specs.

My ideal once of a vegan family eating whole foods all the time went out the window when school started eight years ago. Up until that time we were pretty pure. But now our family is so busy with school and sports and church and life that I feel i've had a good day simply when we all sit down together, no matter what we are eating, and enjoy each other's presence. I hate the fact that my well nourished babies, who were nursed for years are eating microwave tv dinners for lunch, but compromise is part of family life. We don't have a microwave at home and I told them that as long as we eat a healthy breakfast and supper I am willing to buy they junk for lunch. At least until they get tired of it...hopefully and want to go back to whole foods.

Jenny


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## jenniet (Apr 1, 2004)

sunnylady303- Dh and I don't really follow any diet strictly. Both of Dh parents have passed away within the past couple of years, (one from cancer, one from heart disease and they were both young). The biggest change for us was just becoming aware of what we eat. I buy mostly organic and whole foods. The problem for us is that we just eat out too much. Also I have been known to crave Cheetos...







:


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## kaydee (Aug 13, 2004)

As others have said, every person is different, and what works for them will be different. There are many ways to be healthy.

For me, being predominantly vegan fits me nutritionally and ethically, and has for over 15 years now.







I eat a wide variety of fresh, organic food (and a pinch of "healthy" junk food







).

What diet would be right for you depends of a variety of factors: your nutritional needs, your home situation, your ethics. For me, the ethical distress I personally would feel from eating most animal products would be bad for my health--that matters to me a lot. So that matters to me as much as the nutritional aspects.


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