# Cow's milk vs. soy milk for baby



## LylasMom (Aug 5, 2003)

This is a follow up to my previous post about organic cow's milk. I'm still exclusively bfding my almost 11 month old DD, but I would like to introduce a nutritious supplement to her by her 1st bday. She eats lots of wholesome solids and loves to nurse. She drinks water out of a sippy cup, but I'd like to give milk in it soon.

So, I'm looking for the pros and cons of giving her organic whole cow's milk vs. soy milk.

TIA.


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## Erin Pavlina (Nov 11, 2001)

I'm certain you will get a lot of responses. Here is a link to an article by Dr. Michael Gregor on the health differences between cow and soy milk:
http://www.veganmd.org/may2004.html

I vote for Enriched Rice Milk.


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## Wildcrafter (Mar 11, 2003)

I second the rice milk suggestion, soy milk and cow's milk are both difficult to digest and cause allergy problems in many, young and old. Sorry, only "cons" here.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Erin's link was good, but I did notice when I checked it that it compares skim milk with soy milk. I still think that all of the info about cholesterol, etc. is valid, but you would not be feeding your 1 y/o skim milk, I assume. The only concern that I have seen raised with soy milk or rice milk for a child under 2 (other than the allergy thing) is that they are not as high in fat, which is needed for brain develpment. I didn't worry too much about this with my girls, because they were getting plenty of fat from other sources. However, just to make sure that your kiddo is getting other sources of fat if you go with a soy or rice milk over cow's milk. (Just for the record, I wouldn't vote for cow's milk, being vegan & all







)


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## isosmom (Apr 23, 2004)

I have only given dd soy milk and she is now almost 2 1/2. I haven't noticed any adverse reactions. I give her soymilk that is enriched with vitamin D and calcium. But to be honest all this anti-soy has got me thinking. But it really is the only source of soy she eats, besides the occasional tofu dog etc. I would go for soymilk over cows milk anyday(organic cows milk, especially whole fat is much more expensice than soy milk, too), but personally I'm thinking of beginning to alternate with rice or nut milk also.


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

If she's eating lots of solids and still loves to nurse what about just continuing to give her water? The fat, calcium and protein content in your milk is perfectly sufficient to meet her present needs. But if you're still interested in offering her a "milk" what about goat's milk? Preferably raw and organic. It's very close to human milk in composition and usually better tolerated than cow's milk. Plus it's got more calcium and b vitamins than cow's milk.


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## Wildcrafter (Mar 11, 2003)

I believe the issue with soy products is that the highly touted health benefits are only available in fermented soy, as in tempe and naturally fermented soy sauce.

With cow's milk, the issue is that pasteurization and homoginization kill the healthy bacteria and food enzymes that enable us to digest it and utilize the food energy. Not to mention the treatment of the animals, and the hormones and antibiotics used regularly. Otherwise, we're just overworking our bodies to process the altered milk and the chemicals. Raw, organic milk from grass fed cows would be much healthier than any kind of commercial milk. Or at least organic whole milk would not have the hormones and antibiotics.

My 2 year old has never had milk other than from breast, drinks water and herbal tea and is very healthy.


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **solsticemama**
If she's eating lots of solids and still loves to nurse what about just continuing to give her water? The fat, calcium and protein content in your milk is perfectly sufficient to meet her present needs.

ITA.

Quote:

But if you're still interested in offering her a "milk" what about goat's milk? Preferably raw and organic. It's very close to human milk in composition and usually better tolerated than cow's milk. Plus it's got more calcium and b vitamins than cow's milk.
This isn't actually true. Goats are much more closely related to cows than they are to us, and their milk is pretty different from ours. Now, if you could get chimpanzee or gorilla milk...









Links here on comparison of various animal and human milk

Kellymom on animal milk supplements plus more links on goat milk

Quote:

Using goat's milk before 6 months or regular use between 6 and 12 months is not recommended. Goat's milk is no more appropriate to give baby than cow's milk. If you need to supplement and breastmilk is not available, formulas are a more nutritionally complete product. There are several comparisons of goat vs. cow vs. human milk in the links below. Using this information, goat milk is much closer in composition to cow milk than human milk. Goat's milk is high in sodium (like cow's milk) and is very high in chloride and potassium, which makes the renal solute load too high for babies. This can cause gastrointestinal bleeding and can result in anemia and poor growth (these problems are usually undetected until months later). Goat milk is also deficient in folic acid, which can lead to megaloblastic anemia. Also, infants who are allergic to cow's milk protein are often allergic to goat's milk too.

While it's true that whole goats milk (and whole cow's milk) was commonly used prior to the advent of infant formulas it is also true that the infant mortality and morbidity rate during the times of such substitutions was very high.
To answer the OP, I would stick with water or herbal teas if you're still nursing. I personally feed my ds (21 months) yogurt and cheese (we're ovo-lacto vegetarian) so it's not that I'm against dairy products per se, but I do think at your dd's age that feeding cow milk (or dairy substitutes) is a) unnecessary and inferior to breastmilk and b) might lead to earlier weaning.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

I agree with solsticemama, too. And we're big milk drinkers -- we drink organic cow's milk, unfortunately ****'d and past'd, since we cannot legally get raw. (I should say, my kids are big milk drinkers -- I rarely sit down with a glass of milk, only if it's accompanying cookies. I eat a lot of butter, cheeses, and yogurt.) If/when you do want to start on cow's milk, I would recommend trying to start her on yogurt and cheese instead. Though raw milk is illegal here, raw cheeses and yogurt is not, and in addition to not having the good stuff destroyed, they are pre-digested by the bacteria. I wish I hadn't introduced the idea of drinking a glass of milk to my kids -- my 2 yo especially is enamoured with the stuff. If you do want to give her a glass of milk, and you can't get raw, the advantage (as I see it) to goat's milk is that it isn't ****'d, the cream stays in the milk naturally, so that's one less interference than for cow's milk.

Coconut milk was also mentioned as a good alternative for kids to drink, being high in saturated fats, on the coconut milk thread.


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## layla (Jul 2, 2002)

Rice, almond & oat milks are better choices for a baby that young.


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## LylasMom (Aug 5, 2003)

Thanks for the replies. I would like to wean soon, but not sure when she'll fully wean. I'm tired of nursing, and I want to cut down the amount of times per day she nurses. That is why I need a nutritious substitute.

My MW told me about Meyenberg goat milk powder, so it was interesting to read your comments on that. Still not sure what the best choice is for me at this point. She already does eat yogurt, we haven't tried cheese yet and she doesn't care for cottage cheese.


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## lotzakdz (May 8, 2004)

Many "fake millks" are full of added sugars for flavor and not a positive benefit. breastmilk is perfect, but understandably as they get older they expand their intakes. There is a world of difference between processed, pasteurized homoD milk and fresh from the cow/goat milk. The wonders of enzymatic activity are lost and the macrophage population no longer offers benefit. Breastmilk offers all those, and adding dead milk to the diet is certainly less beneficial than fresh raw milk. Check out eatwild.com or WAPF for good info on real milk.


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## Boobs (Apr 17, 2004)

Neither. I would either continue to nurse, or try rice milk. Cow's milk is for baby cows, if ya ask me. Just my $.02.

Tracie (who hopes you'll opt for hangin' in there and continue with the milk made for your baby)


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## halliday (May 8, 2004)

I don't know, but judging from the recent M magazine, soy is to be limited way more than I'd known. I've given both my daughters soy formula and now there's evidence that it may be linked to reproductive disfunction. #%&! What do you use to supplement bf if cow's milk and soy are now off limits?


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Halliday,

Not that I am advocating formula, but I would check out the thread on the soy article further down in this section of the boards. There has been a lot of (not always nice) discussion about the validity of that article. You can draw your own conclusions, but before you worry too much about what you have been feeding your kids, I'd look at others' opinions.


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## LylasMom (Aug 5, 2003)

Okay, for those of you that are encouraging me to continue to bf (even though I said I want to wean):

At 12 months, how many times a day should she nurse in order to get enough nutrients?? My point in asking this, is that I am tired of nursing and although I'd like to continue to give what is best for her, I'd also like to cut down the # of nursings per day.

My family is from India, and IMO Indians have done fine drinking whole cow's milk or buffalo milk, and eating tons of clarified butter and yogurt. The milk is purchased raw and boiled at home. So, although I know cow's milk is meant for cows, why have we been drinking it in this and other countries for so many years?


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Niha,

I probably am not the best person to respond to the why not drink cow's milk question as I am rather opposed to eating animal products, but if it is something that you are comfortable with, then just look into whether it is okay for an 11 month old. I do recall having heard that you should wait until 12 months on dairy due to digestion issues, so maybe just hold off a tad bit longer if you go that route.

I did want to comment on the suggestions that you continue to bf & you saying that you would like to wean. Although I am sure that we can all agree that breastmilk is best for an 11 month old, this is a very personal decision. I nursed each of my girls for about 2 1/2 years, but that was what I wanted to do. It was mutually desirable for me and my girls. If you are no longer wanting to bf, your daughter is going to pick up on your discomfort. If you want to stop, that has to be your choice & none of us should pressure you to continue. It is wonderful that you have nursed this long & it is wonderful if you can nurse longer, but if cutting back is going to make you much happier, it is utimately your choice.


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

my 2 cents is, whatever you decide (and i am a huge dairy fan, but my 3 & 1 1/2 yr old still don't drink any milk but mine), don't go the powdered dried route- oxidized food = free radicals.

suse


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## LylasMom (Aug 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN*
Niha,

I probably am not the best person to respond to the why not drink cow's milk question as I am rather opposed to eating animal products, but if it is something that you are comfortable with, then just look into whether it is okay for an 11 month old. I do recall having heard that you should wait until 12 months on dairy due to digestion issues, so maybe just hold off a tad bit longer if you go that route.

I did want to comment on the suggestions that you continue to bf & you saying that you would like to wean. Although I am sure that we can all agree that breastmilk is best for an 11 month old, this is a very personal decision. I nursed each of my girls for about 2 1/2 years, but that was what I wanted to do. It was mutually desirable for me and my girls. If you are no longer wanting to bf, your daughter is going to pick up on your discomfort. If you want to stop, that has to be your choice & none of us should pressure you to continue. It is wonderful that you have nursed this long & it is wonderful if you can nurse longer, but if cutting back is going to make you much happier, it is utimately your choice.

Bless your heart!! I've been waiting for someone to tell me that I have done the right thing by nursing DD for this long and that it will be perfectly okay if I stop nursing soon. Even though I thought I was over the guilt, I realize I'm not when I ask for advice (both on MDC and IRL) and most EBFders tell me to stick it out! I went to a LLL mtg the other day and not one person praised me for nursing for almost a year. One lady even looked at me speechless when I told her I wanted to wean and that I'm not enjoying it anymore.

I know this is not a bfding board, but I struggle a lot with finding people who are on the same page as me. I meet moms who are stop nursing after a few months or I meet moms who nurse for a much longer time than I wish to.


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## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

we went from breast to enriched almond or enriched rice milk HOWEVER my children drink only water with meals. "milk' is for cereals and cooking. My kids get their calories from fiber rich foods. I do use 'milk' for smoothies which are a favorite snack around here!


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## pln (Jan 25, 2003)

Hi Niha,

A good friend of mine weaned her baby at 13 months and felt great
about it--she replaced one nursing with a solid-food feeding or a
distraction every week and over two months, had totally weaned.

As for what milk, I have concluded that all things should be given
in moderation. My family is also from India and no one in my
family (even the docs) ever talks about dairy allergies (or allergies of
any other sort, LOL). I was given raw cow's milk at 6 weeks old, as
were most of my relatives, with no problems. My ds has already had
yogurt although I will prob wait until 1 yr for organic cow's milk here
in the US (why? there are other things I want to introduce him to first...)

How about cow's milk at one feeding, enriched rice milk at another
feeding, and drinkable yogurt at another feeding?

OR--why not try a few different drinks and see which one your child likes best?
Keep track of what she eats in the day and make sure
that she's getting enough calories, protein, etc.

No one can take away the wonderful start you have given your child in
life for the past 11 months (and probably a little longer).

Please keep us updated--I am also planning to wean between 12-15 months
and would be interested to hear your progress.

Priya


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## TigerTail (Dec 22, 2002)

btw, i wasn't suggesting you were doing anything horrible by wanting to wean at a year- i wouldn't, but recognize how much farther you've gone than the mainstream- was just mentioning my own circumstances. fwiw, juice is an occasional- very occasional- treat here, they've even had *gasp* root beer (non-gmo organic cane sugar, of course, lol), and i prolly would've even given them occasional milk if they'd wanted it. BUT what we do drink tons of is good, clean water. they ask for water, they like water, water is what there is to drink if we're not nursing. sorry you didn't get much support at LLL- honestly, i can't imagine weaning even if it sometimes feels like between the two of them they are sucking me dry, at 21 m & 3 1/2, so i may not have spoken up either, without actually feeling like 'you bad mama you!' i just can't really relate. but i can still say 'wtg!', which all the LLL moms no doubt would've if they'd thought about it.







you did good!

suse


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## rumi (Mar 29, 2004)

Dear Niha,

So nice to meet someone else from india. Why not just stick with the yougurt (organic). And not bother with milk at all.

I remember as recently as 15 years ago when I was in India on an internship, I used to get fresh (raw) milk from a cow I could meet (and often did on my way home from work). I have no idea whether the cow was fed / raised organically but I know it was a "free-grazing" cow. I dont know how many people still get their milk this way. Though nowadays I have seen cows feeding on all kinds of "kachada" if you know what I mean. Also the majority of people are still nursing till age 2-3 (and in rural / tribal areas even longer) so I dont think the cows milk is introduced in a significant quantity even if the kids have started taking it. And at least half of it is consumed as yougurt, which is easier to digest than milk.

Still, I am not so sure that people who are taking a lot of animal milk (those in the cities with more money, for example) are really doing fine. After having a baby and reading up on the various problems that arise from early introduction of dairy I can see a lot of these among my extended family esp among the children. I agree that most people will be fine but when problems do arise we need to identify the cause correctly and imho [or more accurately, in my (limited) experience -- imle!] most doctors (either here or in india) aren't so hot in this area. Usually, they are poor in nutrition themselves, a doctor I saw in India was telling me she gave candy to her daughter at 6 months of age!

Regarding the frequent nursing, I am wondering are you trying to reduce the daytime nursings or the nighttime ones? My daughter is 11 months old now and it would probably be easy to eliminate all daytime nursings except for naptime and she would probably be able to get all the required nutrients from night nursing. If and when I introduce it, I'd think of animal milk more like a snack or convenience food rather than depend on it for real nutrition - that will still have to come from grains, beans, fruits & veggies. [I am not

Given that the WHO recommends a minimum of 2 years nursing, and LLL says that "natural weaning" occurs after age 3, any way you slice it, weaning at age 1 is an early weaning and though no one should criticise you, don't expect praise either, except perhaps from your ped. And maybe your m-i-l if she is like mine ;-). It's nothing personal - when you say "nursing is tiring" MDC folks are more likely to guess you *want* encouragement to keep at it rather than to wean.

r


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## Mama J Rock (Apr 2, 2004)

I think that whatever milk you choose, as long as it's given in moderation and your child's system seems to handle it okay, will probably be fine. You may find that if you can cut out some of the nursing sessions you may enjoy it more and stick with it longer than you are currently planning. If not, you've done well Mama! You are the only one who knows your limits.


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