# Do You Force Your Kids to Eat?



## FLmomof1/1ontheway (Apr 25, 2007)

My kids are 8, 5 and 3. Eating is a huge issue in our house. My 8 yo is my best eater but is still very picky.

I have read you should serve the food and not say anything or make any issue about what they eat or do not eat. Sigh that just doesn't happen here! My kids seem to eat nothing. They do not get junk food or soda or unhealthily snacks. They live on fruit and yogurt and sandwiches. The only veggies they eat are French cut green beans and broccoli. They won't even drink smoothies.

It's a nightmare nightly. I spend so much time cooking and they sit there and tell me it's disgusting and refuse to eat. They will gladly go to bed hungry. They refuse to try new things. I'm a short order cook most of the time. If I ask "what does everyone want for lunch" I get 3 different answers. I don't know what to do? I tried emeals and cooked what was on the menu nightly. Eat it or go hungry. I did it for over a month and gave up bc I threw all the food in the garbage. Do I spend an hour cooking a healthy meal for them then just make them oatmeal when they refuse it? Do I let them never eat dinner? How do I get them to try new things?

How? Why do I have these issues!? I started all of them super healthy on homemade baby food that they gobbled up. I NEVER was like this as a kid. I was happy I had food to eat. I LOVED to try new things.


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

To answer your question, no, I never force my kids to put anything in their bodies that they don't want or like.

I don't bribe, negociate, hide food, make it "fun" or play any tricks to get them to eat.

Food just is. They eat when they are hungry, and they stop when they are full.

We don't have forbidden food in our house. We eat desserts once every day and eat out maybe once a month. We sometimes go to fast food places, although none of us, adults or kids, like it. The food is disgusting and we come home more hungry than we left. But the kids love the MacDonald's playground, so once in a while won't harm them.

I have read you should serve the food and not say anything or make any issue about what they eat or do not eat.

I would go with this. I would set up some structure first, and then let them choose whatever they want to eat.

Our structure is that I offer three meals and two snacks a day; the kids can eat as much or as little as they want of anything. I don't interfere at all in their choices. If they prefer not to eat, no worries, they will eat more at the next meal. But the only way of not being a short order cook is to stop doing it.

Are you sitting down with them when they have dinner? I found that this is vital in keeping them at the table. If they see you enjoying the food you prepared, they will want to join you. Now this may take days or weeks if you said you had food battles in the past, the dinner table would not be a place where they would want to be.

Also, it's important that they don't eat a couple of hours before dinner so they are a little hungry when you call them for supper.

Oh, and I don't ask my kids to take X bites of anything they don't like; but they are not allowed to say that the food is disgusting. Even my 3 y/o learned to say: "No, thank you", instead of "Yucky" (although she needs a reminder sometimes).

HTH


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I served smaller portions so there was less to throw away and reserved the food if my DD was hungry later when we couldn't afford much food. I would send her from the table if she whined and wrap up her meal for later and that made my mealtime more pleasant. Once I was full I could truly remove myself from caring whether my child ate or was full enough to go without. She did get better at eating and became an amazing eater. Eight is very old and she may hold out for a long time, causing her siblings to follow suit so I would try it a while longer. Unless the doctor is worried about weight I would assume they are getting what they need.

It also helped that I would also randomly buy a dessert item and say "I ate my healthy food so now I am having ice cream/fruit and whipped cream/a cookie. When my DD wanted one I would say "of course you can have one when you eat your healthy food up." No further words or comments were necessary. You don't have to have a dessert that often for it to.make a difference in eating.


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## ThreeTwoFive (May 7, 2011)

I was thinking about your post while eating dinner tonight. DS had turkey, cheese, oranges, a slice of bread, frozen peas, lettuce, and some carrots. I had potato-leek-white-bean-asparagus soup with bread and oranges. I don't expect a 3-yr-old to like my soup, but I'm not going to limit what I eat because he won't try it. His dinner took about 60 seconds to prep, since none of it involved cooking. I enjoy cooking for me and DH. Maybe you could cook for yourself, offer them some, and then have leftovers if they don't take it. They can make their own sandwiches, right?

FWIW your kids' diet sounds balanced enough. If they want to live on sandwiches, yogurt, fruit, and broccoli, that takes a lot of stress out of meal planning.


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## Neera (Jul 15, 2007)

We tried that one time. Dd had to eat what was prepared or she could go to bed hungry. And she did - for I don't know how long; probably not more than two or three meals and she became v. constipated so we had to go back to making special meals for her.


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## Red Pajama (Jun 11, 2007)

My sage advice is that if you fight about food, you'll fight about food! The reality is, though, I do get very frustrated about meal times with my kids, too, and I think that's true to some extent for many. Keeping your sanity and the kids healthy should be the goal.

Serve the kids very small portions. Include tiny bits of what you're serving. Make the rule that you can't call food gross or disgusting-- it's manners for life, not just to be polite to you, although you deserve to have good manners shown for your efforts, too.

I do make them eat a bit of vegetables. It's just how it it-- you've got to eat veggies.

I do not make them clean plates, or eat all of what they don't like.

They do have a snack time that they are in charge of, where they can get yogurt, fruit, sometimes cereal if it's in the house. Point is, it's completely their choice. Breakfast is usually their job, too.

I think having some determination about what and when they eat is helpful.


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## revolting (Sep 10, 2010)

I agree with teaching, "No, thank you," instead of "That's disgusting."
I do encourage them to try a bite of everything, even if they previously haven't liked it, but I don't force them. We talk a lot about how our bodies learn to like new grow foods with practice. However, I think if you force a kid to try something they've already decided they will hate, they will hate it and the experience will reinforce the negative feelings they have with the food.
I try to make sure there is always a side I know the kids will eat. Right now, I'm really lucky that both kids have decided they like salad with ranch dressing, so I always serve a green salad and keep ranch dressing for them. In the past, it's been biscuits, sweet potato fries, fruit salad... Occasionally, one of them will decide that they don't like that food anymore, but most nights there's something they are willing to eat. Each kid gets to choose dinner once per week (barring anything too complicated).
Unless what I make is really bad, we don't throw it away. At least one night a week is leftovers night, because I don't have it in me to cook every night. Also, they often get incorporated into lunches.
I also recently ordered a book on food chaining, which I've heard is a program that helps you gently expand your child's palate. I'm hoping it will help us find more protien and vegetable choices for my eldest (who is my fussy eater).


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neera*
> 
> We tried that one time. Dd had to eat what was prepared or she could go to bed hungry. And she did - for I don't know how long; probably not more than two or three meals and she became v. constipated so we had to go back to making special meals for her.


But the idea is not to starve them until they have no other choice but to eat what we want them to eat. We can still cook one meal and be considerate at the same time.

With all meals, you can put bread and milk on the table. If everything else fails, they still won't go to bed hungry.

It happens sometimes that I cook something one of my kids doesn't like (they have different food preferences, as we all do); you can't please everyone, everytime. But at the next meal or snack something different will be offered, I don't keep feeding them food they don't like.

When it comes to food, I try to do like my grandmother used to do. She would not dream of cooking separate meals for each person at the table; she would not force or bribe us to eat, but somehow we all enjoyed her meals tremendously.

It seems as we lost our capacity of having meals these past two generations. We are either so laissez-faire that we eat wherever, however, whatever we want, or we are so obsessed with "healthy" eating that we deprive our meals of taste and enjoyment.


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## mamarhu (Sep 12, 2004)

As a foster parent, I had up to 6 kids in my home, each with different food histories, preferences, habits. It could have been a nightmare! The rule in my house was eat the dinner I cook, or have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Kids old enough could make their own PBJ (and clean up after themselves!), or I would make it. But no short order cook. PBJ quickly got boring, so some kids got more adventurous. Not all. Dinner was usually pretty kid friendly, but rarely the over-processed foods these kids were used to and would have preferred. Mac & cheese, with real cheese, rather than from a box. Home made pizza. I confess I did occasionally sneak mashed yams into spaghetti sauce and things like that. Please don't tell! My goal was that the company and atmosphere at the table would be good enough that kids wanted to be there. The food was secondary.

I always had a full fruit bowl and a basket of granola bars available. Don't ask, just help yourself any time. At first, most kids pigged out, but they self-regulated in time. Oh, I also gave everyone gummi vitamins, a practice I swore I would never do! But I saw it as an insurance policy, because some of these kids really never did eat a vegetable. Ever. Some how they all survived. Even my autistic bio-son, who I believe ate only 4 items ages 3-10 (popcorn, milk, french fries, and grapes), grew up tall, strong, and healthy. I have no clue how that happened - defies all nutrition principles I was ever taught. And today, at 17, he eats everything, loves trying new foods, and sushi is his favorite treat. Well, probably second to popcorn.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

You might want to check out the blog It's Not About Nutrition (http://itsnotaboutnutrition.squarespace.com/). I haven't applied all of the ideas because my kid is still too young for some of them, but it seems very sensical to me. Sample ideas: one treat a day at a time of the child's decision (drains the energy out of the argument around treats), focus on discussing how they feel about different tastes and textures and reinforcing the idea that we eat a variety of foods, if they don't want to eat it's okay and they can have the backup food, which is something that requires no prep and that they like okay but don't love, and is always the same. Lots of good stuff there.

Lately I have been having success with, if I put several foods in front of her and she scarfs one, eats a bite of another, seems to like it, but then wants more of the one she scarfed, I tell her "finish your beets and you can have more bread" (or whatever) and she'll usually do it--just a gentle reminder to eat a variety of foods. She is not quite 2.


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## FLmomof1/1ontheway (Apr 25, 2007)

Thanks for all the replies.

To answer some questions and give more info:

Breakfast is never an issue. The kids eat cereal or waffles and a few times a week I cook eggs, which everyone now eats and sausages (one special kind).

Lunch is never much of an issue either. We have some form of a sandwich. Grilled cheese, PB&J, Lunch meat, hamburger (my oldest 2 will eat a burger). Along with fruit and yogurt. I sit and eat lunch with them but normally not breakfast. I'm sure my 8yo could make herself a PB&J and maybe my 5yo too, but I have always been the one to do it. I don't mind short- order cooking at lunch since they are simple items so I often do it plus I often make myself something since a mom can only eat PB&J so often.

I give a snack between lunch and dinner. My kids rarely tell me they are hungry and they were just not raised to go in the cabinets and get what ever they want out. If they do get hungry they will ask. Our snack is usually crackers or cookies (fig newtons, organic animal cookies). Or fruit, avocado, cheese, bean chips, etc. My oldest loves to eat a can of sardines.

One of my strongest mommy instincts is to never let my kids go hungry. Don't know why, but it is. Maybe that is why I am so apt to short order cook? My second issue is I'm overly educated on nutrition. We eat extremely clean. My kids have never had fast food or soda or any other junk out there. When I was pregnant last time we were out late and my 2 girls were asleep in the back of the car. I was STARVING so I went to McDonald's and ordered a fish sandwich and fries (an old favorite from childhood). By the time I got home I was deathly ill. I had horrible stomach pains all night and diarrhea for 3 days. I still can't believe that a fish sandwich could of made me that ill and can't imagine what they possibly put in that food?! We can't eat out anywhere anymore. We get sick. If we have treats at a home school function we all come home with sick tummies and/or vomiting. If it's not fresh food with real ingredients we can't have it. I did Paleo for a short while and am even dabbling with the idea that we shouldn't be eating any grains at all. Since we are so use to eating so healthy I feel boxed in.

On to dinner, SIGH. I use to cook for myself- long ago. I no longer have the energy or time. I'm so over dinner! I hate to cook it! After a long day and I'm exhausted the last thing I want to do is spend an hour or two cooking, to get the "it's disgusting" "I'd rather go to bed hungry" "i *don't * want to eat that!". Then to spend an hour cleaning up the kitchen! Yet I feel I must. I feel so guilty on nights I'm sick and give the kids waffles or cereal for dinner. I think they didn't eat a single vegetable today, what kind of mother am I?

I hear you all I need to not let my kids call my food disgusting. It's mostly my second born. I think most moms can agree it's #2 that causes lots of issues. She has a way about her- she will look me in the face and in her super mature voice say "Mommy I don't like this! Would you want to be forced to eat something *you* don't like?"

They won't try a new food. especially if they have tried it before. Trying a food to them is to touch it on their tongues or place it in their mouths and spit it out without chewing. They also won't eat any food mixed together or touching each other. My DD will say her broccoli is ruined because rice fell into it.

Last night we had linguine with clams and mussels. My oldest 2 ate the shellfish but not the pasta (they didn't like the sauce). My 3yo ate plain butter noodles.

The night before we had baked Mahi with Italian and cheese bread crumbs on top, real saffron Jasmin rice, and of course broccoli. My 3 yo didn't eat. He refused to try anything. My middle ate a little fish and a tiny amount of broccoli, my oldest surprisingly didn't like the fish or the rice and only ate broccoli. I left the room and cried while typing my original post.

So...I should let them have an alternative? They can eat oatmeal or cereal if they don't like my dinner? What if they choose to eat oatmeal every night? Should I stop cooking dinner?

And yes we do have treats. Real ice cream- I have bribed- well it's know, if you don't eat your dinner you don't get ice cream. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.


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## ThreeTwoFive (May 7, 2011)

I'm going to sound like my therapist here, but here goes.

You're guilting yourself with all the "should" statements. (It's called a cognitive distortion -- google for more info.)

Try re-phrasing as "Could I . . .?" "Could I stop cooking dinner?" "Could I let them have an alternative?" "Do I want to stop cooking?" Step away from the mama-guilt.

This works in other areas of life, too, of course. "Could I have a glass of wine now?" "Could we go to the library today or could we wash the kitchen floor?" So much more freeing than "should."


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *erigeron*
> 
> You might want to check out the blog It's Not About Nutrition (http://itsnotaboutnutrition.squarespace.com/
> ). I haven't applied all of the ideas because my kid is still too young for some of them, but it seems very sensical to me. Sample ideas: one treat a day at a time of the child's decision (drains the energy out of the argument around treats), focus on discussing how they feel about different tastes and textures and reinforcing the idea that we eat a variety of foods, if they don't want to eat it's okay and they can have the backup food, which is something that requires no prep and that they like okay but don't love, and is always the same. Lots of good stuff there.
> ...


I like that blog too. We use her "cottage cheese" idea only we offer plain yoghurt instead.

OP, I wouldn't stop cooking dinner myself. You need to eat as well! And I am a big believer in the idea that *most* children will come to be less picky with regular exposure to healthy foods and seeing others enjoy them.

My 3yo currently eats no vegetables except sweet corn (sometimes) and oven chips. To avoid waste I put one small piece of each veggie on her plate. For example, the other night we had mashed potato/pumpkin, carrots and zucchini. I put a dessert spoon of potato/pumpkin, one carrot ring and one zucchini ring on her plate. I don't make her try it but, if we're discussing the food I might say "try the carrots, they're delicious" she says no, I say ok and that's it. We discuss what things are and how they're cooked. We also sometimes talk about how things grow and where they came from. Our goal is to help her develop and interest in good food. I *always* put some of each component of the meal on her plate though.

She will eat most meats and grains so there is usually plenty for her to eat at dinner but, if she's hungry afterwards she can have plain yoghurt.

Dessert is not tied to other foods ie not a reward and not an encouragement to eat more than you want to get a treat. We have found that random desserts work best for us. One of us will say "I feel like some yoghurt/ice cream etc does anyone else want some?" Or DD will request a treat and, if she hasn't had anything else that day and we have what she's asked for then we say yes.

She is only 3 so no long-term results yet but we're happy with where we're at for now.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Don't make it a fight. As long as they're getting some from each of the four food groups (and it sounds like they are), then I'd let them eat what they want. (And I have no idea why you'd cry over it, honestly. It's just food.)


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


> So...I should let them have an alternative? They can eat oatmeal or cereal if they don't like my dinner? What if they choose to eat oatmeal every night? Should I stop cooking dinner?


The alternative here is an apple.

I wouldn't stop cooking dinner. I would continue cooking it, eating it yourself, sitting them down in front of it and requiring that they 1) Taste what's served and 2) Be polite about it.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

I have an extremely picky eater and another with allergies in opposition to mine, so dinner difficulties are not just about not liking the food. I've gotten over the resistance to being a short-order cook. However, it's not about cooking whatever they want. "We're having homemade chicken soup tonight" (dd1 loves chicken soup made with potatoes) so... "do you want noodles in broth?" I have the broth from stewing the chicken, I can make up some noodles that, if not eaten, dh can toss into his soup. Or she has something simple. I go back and forth between making corn muffins for dd1 and wheat biscuits for me and dd2. Nights for stir-fried rice, I make leftovers for myself. I usually offer to make dd2 a hardboiled egg, but sometimes I run out of space for extra requests on the stove.

I guess I balance it by making meals fairly simple, and I don't make things generally that are difficult for kids to love-- I would have spicier food, for example, but I can throw hot sauce on if I want (and grate cheese on top on my plate). Lasagna is off limits to dd1 and dd2 won't eat it, but if there is enough leftovers they like, then I make it and dh and I enjoy it. Generally I don't make time-intensive dishes that are off-limits due to allergies.

I don't invest huge amounts of time cooking dinner anymore, anyway. And I definitely discourage outright insults and have on occasion grumpily excused them from the table because of the whines (rare, really). In the end, my fight is not over short-order cooking per se, but on the time invested. If the time is easy, if pulling noodles out before putting on the sauce is easy, adjusting the steps so that something more plain can be made from something all mixed up, then I do it. It doesn't mean the answer is always "yes", but if I can fit it in, I do. It's really not that big of a deal for our family, but I have something of an extreme situation whereas many parents are dealing with simple age-appropriate squeamishness that often can be solved by standing ground for a while.

But first I'd focus on manners in regards to accepting food. That is going to help you feel so much better! "Eat what you want, don't eat what you don't want, and don't make a fuss." I do prompt them sometimes with questions like "how do you like the carrots cut up in your soup? Small cubes or round?" This lets them know I do care.


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## marsupial-mom (Feb 3, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *erigeron*
> 
> Lately I have been having success with, if I put several foods in front of her and she scarfs one, eats a bite of another, seems to like it, but then wants more of the one she scarfed, I tell her "finish your beets and you can have more bread" (or whatever) and she'll usually do it--just a gentle reminder to eat a variety of foods. She is not quite 2.


I do this too, with my 3.5 year old.
It mostly developed simply from my refusal to cater to his every whim, but it's also a good way to get to eat or at least try healthier foods.


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

No, I don't force my girls to eat.
The first thing I would stop doing is asking them what they want. And then I would brace myself for major resistance.(Because who would want to go from having a personal chef to "here's what is for lunch"!)
My first daughter is super easy and will eat anything. The second is more picky but it helps a lot if she helps cook what we eat.
I always have a quick easy veggie they like--almost always broccoli or kale and usually a fruit they like.
I was giving into my youngest and getting up to make her something special. Then I stopped. She was unhappy at first and not she's fine.
Oh, I do try and give her as much control as I can. I let her put the food on her plate, I have a little pitcher of water that even the toddler can use to serve herself, and she likes that part.
Other than that, I just refuse to argue. It worked for us.


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## california_mom (Sep 30, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mama2mygirl*
> 
> No, I don't force my girls to eat.
> The first thing I would stop doing is asking them what they want. And then I would brace myself for major resistance.(Because who would want to go from having a personal chef to "here's what is for lunch"!)
> ...












I have a rule though about portions: Take all you want, but eat what you take. And if my son doesn't eat it, he gets it for the next meal (if I remember). If I serve the portion, then he gets a pass if he doesn't eat it all, and it goes to the dogs. As for the types of foods, I make him what I make him. If I'm feeling generous, I will make him what I know he likes (or tolerates), like broccoli. As for new foods, we have a rule that he has to at least try a new food - one little bite, but he doesn't need to eat it if he doesn't like it. We also wait til we know he's super hungry before we put a new food in front of him; he's more likely to like it if he's hungry







. I also have no problem saying NO to certain foods if I know he's been eating too much bread that day or too many sandwiches or whatever. And all this typically applies to dinner when we're all sitting at the table. I'm more lenient with breakfast and lunch. If he wants to eat apples all day, so be it. At least I know I will make him a decent dinner. He seems to have spans when he's hungrier and spans when he doesn't eat much (growth spurts?). So, I try to keep that in mind and know he's not gonna starve if he skips a meal or two, or snacks on grapes all day.

Another previous post suggested giving the kids some control over how the carrots are cut, etc. We do this too. "Do you want the salad dressing on the side or on the tofu?" for example. I notice that my son eats more when he's involved in the preparation. My husband has been letting him mash and cut recently, and his chore is to set the table. That has helped make dinner a more enjoyable experience, rather than listening to myself say, "Just eat" over and over for 45 minutes.


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## sbarr_NY (Oct 19, 2010)

I know I'm late into this thread, but a quick comment about introducing new food. I learned this during a wine tasting class - different parts of the tongue "like" different flavors - sweet, sour, salty, savory, etc.

Tell kids to chew new food with their back teeth.

Children have evolved to try things with the tip of their tongue - speculation, that the tip of the tongue like sweet things and is adverse to bitter (poison) - kids as little animals would try things with the tip of their tongues to see if it was "safe to eat" - and poisonous things are usually bitter and the tip of the tongue would detect it before the child ate it.

Fast forward to 2013 - kids still try things with the tip of their tongues and most "non-sweet" foods are less appealing when tasted with the tip of the tongue (forget about spicy stuff with tip of the tongue).

My daughter is cautious (ok, I admit it, terrible) about trying new foods, but I insist that she chew any new food with her molars.

She's heard it enough times:


You're 5 so you must try 5 bites (assumption - anything new)
One bite for every year you are old (yes, bad grammar, but she get's the point)
Chew it with your back teeth

I have an easy and compassionate response - Oh, you only want to try one bite, ok - that's fine. One year olds try one bite and if you're one, then you have an early bed time or cannot watch X TV show or cannot visit the friend across the street. It's not punishment, but "matter-of-fact" - babies don't get very many choices. 5 year olds get lots of choices.

5 year olds try 5 bites and 5 year olds get pretty lenient privileges in my house.

Her choice.

I sound like a broken record, but, I've been able to get her to sample things according to her increasing age.

I choose what is offered at the meal, she chooses how much she eats - if it's a familiar food, it's her choice - I never require her to clean her plate. If it's a new food - 5 bites, back teeth.

Try it and let me know how it works!


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## revolting (Sep 10, 2010)

The back teeth thing is pretty interesting! Thanks.


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sbarr_NY*
> 
> I have an easy and compassionate response - Oh, you only want to try one bite, ok - that's fine. One year olds try one bite and if you're one, then you have an early bed time or cannot watch X TV show or cannot visit the friend across the street. It's not punishment, but "matter-of-fact" - babies don't get very many choices. 5 year olds get lots of choices.


Actually, sending her to bed early, taking away TV from her, forbidding her to visit friends and calling her a baby IS punishment, no matter how "compassionate" you find your response to be. She doesn't really have a choice, does she.

It's like putting a diaper on an older child because she wets the bed "like a baby". It IS punishment and shaming.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

"It's not punishment, but "matter-of-fact" - babies don't get very many choices. 5 year olds get lots of choices."

You don't actually say this, do you?

I would hope that this is an internal reasoning and not something that you share with your children. It's not compassionate, it's saying "If you don't behave the way I want you to, then I'm going to tell you that you're acting like a baby."


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

My kids are great eaters, and I have to say I think it's because we are very hands-off. We have never done the "three more bites" thing, or asked them to eat their "healthy food" before their dessert, or anything like that.

And you know, OP, your 8 yo really might not be hungry at dinner. I have an 8 yo ds who will often have two bites of broccoli for dinner, and that will be all he wants. And, just as often, he wants toast or a bowl of cereal and a banana and 2-3 eggs for breakfast, so I think he's just more hungry in the morning. Seems to be working just fine - he weighs ~75 lbs and he's as tall as my 10 yo dd and pretty lean.

With my commute and work schedule, I'm away from the home for over 9 hours, and so a peaceful dinnertime is very important to me. Our kids help dh cook (we are using emeals right now), and then they will usually sit and talk with us for 20-30 minutes. I try to serve myself very small portions, and then I eat what's left off their plates (not always so good at this one!) or wrap it up for lunch the next day. Maybe you could try that, instead of just throwing it away.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

yes i do 'force' my dd to eat.

she is 10 - nearly 11. the rules that applied to food at 3 are very much different than the rules at 11.

dd has to eat what i give her. however i take into mind what she wants. we were going to eat omlettes for dinner. dd told me she was sick of eggs, but would love me to stir fry her some veggies. so i did just that and put those veggies in my eggs. after that she could not serve herself and then say she doesnt want to eat.

nah ah. you eat what you put on your plate.

i would never make pizza or burgers for a meal coz i know dd would never eat them.

however in our house by the time dd was 6 she was cooking simple dinners. so i have solved the problems by having her make dinner.

dd also has learnt what to eat. a balanced diet. since she was younger. so if she wanted something else she had to make sure she hadnt eaten that alrready.


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## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FLmomof1/1ontheway*
> 
> So...I should let them have an alternative? They can eat oatmeal or cereal if they don't like my dinner? What if they choose to eat oatmeal every night? Should I stop cooking dinner?


I also am one that forces and reading over your posts I feel this is not about food but about what they know they can get away with -IMO

I force, that means, you must try, and you must eat a portion of your meal or you do not get dessert if we are having it, if we are not having dessert and you can't eat what is served you wait till the next meal. These are not new rules, they have been since the start of eating. I do feel when you are dealing with children where it has already been set how you will react it is much harder to change and get them to except the "new" rules.

I do not have a restaurant, I am not a short order cook, I do not give an alternative. We eat what is served. I allow help in shopping, planning and preparation, we talk about what is and isn't acceptable as far as what we ingest and we talk a lot about what are bodies need and don't need (this has been ongoing as well). We also talk about cost and waist and my time in cooking. My 5 year old understands it at his level. I cook a various menu of items and we have a rotation and that can be weeks in-between for certain dishes.

If I am making a meal with (for ex ample spinach) my DS does not like spinach, he still gets 90+% of the other items, he has learned to pick around an item in a dish and if he doesn't feel he can eat the rest- that's it- done.

We force trying, you simply can't say you don't like something if you never tried it and tried it different ways, that means a little bit but it still means trying. We recognize taste buds change and that's OK too but items do taste different depending on how they are prepared.

This is my second and my first is much older and living on her own and cooking on her own, and she had so food issues, no weight issues and never starved.

If you are making pasta and seafood, change by the type of noodles, keep some without sauce but present it all (IMO) don't give an alternative main dish, giving enough items you should find something to eat at that meal, if they don't, done for the night. You have three, with what I assume are three different sets of tastes, not every meal is everyone going make everyone all the time happy, that is life. If they have eaten two meals that day and snacks, they are not going to starve. Allow each to plan 2 meals a week and the extra day is what you or your DH wants. IF they plan it, I would expect them to not complain and to eat it- if they don't, the following week they loose the ability to plan the meal and get what you give them or wait to the next meal. AND with the meal planing I would require X number of veggies, etc- what ever you determine healthy for your meals. Pick a main item, and require each to do the sides for that item and if one eats pasta and the other's don't, too bad, it's that ones choice that night and they know a head of time what is happening, again, that is life, it's not always what you want all the time. I would also have a zero complaint policy, you know a head of time what is being served, complain, leave the table, you are done. Your children have to show you respect and know you have worked hard to prepare the meal and that means, you don't need to hear how much they don't like it.

If you want to run you house as a short order cook (many do) that's fine, I don't have the time or the money or desire to do it, personally I think this causes many to have food / weight issues.


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## delightedbutterfly (Oct 5, 2006)

I don't for the kids to eat... But I do request "one *decent sized* bite of everything, even if you tried it and didn't like it before"... They are also not allowed to say gross or disgusting. Simply that they don't enjoy it right now or prefer not to eat it. We've talked a lot about healthy eating and a lot about how our taste buds change.

This is also my rule when it comes my my daycare kids. I have always put the items on the little kids plates, but it's not until they are a bit older (3-4) that I really require the "one bite". I ask before but I'm not going to fight a two year old with it. But I do put it on their plate.

I also let the kids shop with me (daycare kids included) once in awhile and they get to pick out a new fruit or veggie to try. They all have to try a bite and I only but a small one but because they picked it, they are more likely to try it.

And probably the most important thing to me is to not make a separate meal, I don't even offer alternatives. HOWEVER... I don't usually serve them the fully prepared dish to the kids. Instead when I'm preparing the food I leave out enough of the ingredients to make my kids meals. If I make spaghetti then I'll leave our plain ground beef, a bunch of the veggies I know they like, one of the new veggies/veggies they don't like each to try and then give them plain buttered pasta.

Then I make the rest of the meal together. Except we don't sauce all the pasta, we only sauce what we are eating. I find that all kids tend to eat the ingredients to meals better than if it was mixed all together. I will also offer them the mixed meal but I don't require they try this.

And I mix up the ways I prepare things. My oldest won't eat raw or pan fried mushrooms... But if I roast them?! She can't stop eating them!

And last I always make sure that there is a healthy favorite on their plate even if it's different from what DH and I are eating. Often times this is carrot sticks.

If they are still hungry after dinner they can have a piece of fruit from the fruit stand or they can have some precut veggies.

What I do find is that my kids eat better at 4 PM. If I skip the afternoon snack, feed them a "cold plate dinner" (fruit/veggies/meat/crackers/cheese) at 4 and then give them a healthy snack & small treat before bed then they eat better.

I don't make food a big deal, but I have found ways to get not only my children but other people's "picky" children to eat a variety of things. I don't force things they don't like, but they are so used to trying a bite of everything that I don't even have to ask anymore. Just the other day I gave my daycare kid some red pepper which I know he doesn't like... And he took his "one bite" of it and he said, "I don't usually like this, but this pepper is really good this time" and ate the rest. Will he eat it next time? No clue and it's up to him. But I know he'll try at least one bite without arguing and the rest will be up to him.

Of course I make the adults do it too (me and DH... Not guests although they usually join in too). Because I feel it sets a good precedent for trying different food for the rest of life and traveling to different places as well


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fuamami*
> 
> My kids are great eaters, and I have to say I think it's because we are very hands-off. We have never done the "three more bites" thing, or asked them to eat their "healthy food" before their dessert, or anything like that.
> 
> ...


Ha. Ha. My kids are great eaters and we do require certain quantities of food and (i.e. veggies that are liked served first and need to be finished while the other foods are prepared) and we talk a lot about healthy foods but no, treats aren't part of the equation. We ask what the kids want for breakfast and try and accmodate but we don't waste. And I also have a really fine tuned sense of what an individual kid needs to eat over a day. We also tend to leave leftovers out until bedtime and a lot of time extra food gets eaten.

Our kids shop weekly at the farmer's market with us and one loves to cook but won't try much and one won't cook and one won't cook and eats almost everything.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

OP do all 3 of your children have very varied diet? is there some common food your children will all eat? or do they all like something different.

I have to say I do object to cereal. esp. for dinner. it is a form of 'sugar'. you are getting ready to 'work'. so oatmeal or cereal (esp. with sweetner of any kind, whether direct sugar or organic raisins) would be a huge no no at our house.

I have an only so its just her and me. so not too complicated. but she has constant sleepovers and most of her friends are picky eaters.


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## mummamilk (Jul 15, 2003)

OP -I am hearing you are tired and not feeling appreciated. I think it is common for parents to prepare food for children as a way of showing love and there is an expectation that the children show there appreciation by eating it.

Yes I do enjoy cooking, but I am not doing all the work myself. That is doing my children a disservice by not showing them the real world.

By age 3 my children were making their own meals and snacks. Everyone helps prepare our family dinner. If dd does not want the vegetable I am

preparing she chooses and prepares another. I do not serve my children. We eat family style (dishes are passed they serve themselves) and they must eat what they put on their plate or wrap it up for another time. I never throw away food unless I burned it.

They are encouraged to try one bite of something new. If they really do not like it they will wash it down with a glass of water. It is not polite to say something negative.

My youngest is picky. He prefers his veggies raw. I always have something raw on the table. I understand about the "not touching thing" this was solved by using tiny plates or bowls so nothing was mixed up. We all have our food preferences and it is important to respect them. For example I leave sauce on the side so everyone can choose for themselves if they want it and how much.

I do not force children to eat dinner, but they must come and join the family at the table. They may have a fruit or vegetable for a snack at any time of day. The only "food rule" for the older ones is if they eat all of something they write it on the grocery list. If they don't write it on the list they go without until the next time.

I also do not clean up the kitchen myself. As soon as my children could stand they helped empty/load the dishwasher. An assortment of dishes/cups are kept in the lower cabinets. Little ones can wash tables and chairs. If they are tall enough to reach it they are tall enough to wash it.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Do your kids have any input into the menu? My kids wouldn't like the two seafood-based meals you mentioned either (although they sound yummy to me!). That doesn't mean I wouldn't make those meals, but I would have a couple of more kid-friendly meals in between. Also, 5 and 3 is pretty young. My DS didn't start becoming more adventurous with food until he was 6, and now at 8 he's a great eater. DD (who is 5) still has a pretty narrow spectrum of foods she likes. So some of it might just be something they'll outgrow.

One thing I did to give my kids more input into our family's meals was to write down about 40 of our usual family meals on strips of cardstock, and every week I tell the kids to get them out and they each get to choose 2 meals (I have 2 kids, so that leaves 3 meals for DH and me to choose). I clip those strips up on a board so we know what we're eating that week, and I space out the kids' choices so that about every other day we're eating something they selected. At the end of the week, those strips are put aside so they'll have to choose something else the following week. I sort of followed the design linked below, but it doesn't have to be that involved -- even just an envelope of card strips would work fine.

http://thecreativemama.com/the-end-of-reinventing-the-meal-menu-planning-and-the-ultimate-menu-board/


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## superspatula (Jun 19, 2006)

this soooo sounds like me a couple years ago. after my oldest (7) was diagnosed with mild anemia i was at my wits end and made both kids clean their plates. after a couple weeks they now eat everything and its not a fight. they know what they have to do and they have really come to enjoy all kinds of different foods.

and i also lead by example. sometimes dinner doesnt turn out so well but i eat it anyway too. its what we have to eat and it shouldnt be wasted. the only time they get alternate dinners is when i make something too spicy or something is just too expensive to have them eat when they wont like it(this is rare and i cant think of any examples other than expensive stinky cheeses or things like sushi)


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Excuse the off topic post but this is a popular thread so I want to hitch a ride on it for the benefit of the community.









Please cast your vote for our reputation feature. You'll find info and the poll here. Thanks!


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## familycastle (Oct 13, 2011)

We rarely force dd (6) to eat, but will get her to try a few bites of everything, just to expose her to as diverse a diet as possible. Since this has been in place since she was little, dd knows just to suck it up and have a few bites of everything. I would never make her finish everything on her plate, or go to bed hungry.


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## mar123 (Apr 14, 2008)

I have one very picky eater (he has always has been), one child who will try anything, and one who is somewhere in the middle. My very picky eater became interested in eating a wider variety of foods around 12; I also started involving him in menu planning and cooking. Now he is 17 and cooks for all of us about twice a week. I used to stress about the eating thing; I had to let it go. I cook; you can eat all of what I make or only some of it. Grab a sandwich or bowl of cereal or yogurt. No punishments for not eating what I cook. I don't like everything and don't expect my kids to. Some things they discover at other people's houses I will try and fit in to our menu even if I don't care for it; for example, my youngest LOVES leeks sauteed in olive oil with black pepper. It's not my favorite, but I get 3 for $1 at the farmer's market, so I will make it just for her. I would look into a kids' cooking class; it might open their eyes to trying things and make it fun. If you don't want it to be a battle, just let it go.


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## Mylie (Mar 15, 2004)

I don't force her to eat...but I don't turn around and give her a sandwich 5 minutes later either or let her load up on junk and fill up on milk...She does pretty good but my girl is 5 and she eats to live...she doesn't live to eat....


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## cattmom (Apr 6, 2009)

So many different approaches! I can only tell you what seems to be working for us. Before we became parents, I would cringe when certain families came to stay with us. Mealtimes were a pitched battle - "Eat one more bite!" "No!" "I don't like it!" "I don't want it!" I knew more than anything that I didn't want our family to look like that, not at home and not with other people. Fortunately, the leader of the hospital's parenting support group introduced us to the work of Ellyn Satter, the dietitian who wrote Child of Mine and several other books. She has a very common sense approach that has worked well for us and has led to essentially zero struggles at the table. I'll tell you the parts that I remember off the top of my head, but you can also Google her. She has a good website with a forum for interested parents who ask questions and give each other advice. Basically, what Satter says is that there is a de facto division of responsibility between parent and child. The parents must be in charge of the part they are in charge of, and not let the kids try to invade that part. The kids must be in charge of the parts that the kids are in charge of, and parents must not invade that part. The whole thing works, she says, because children really do want to grow up. They want to be big and act big, and if you handle it the right way, they will eventually learn to enjoy the food culture of your family.

Parents are in charge of when the food is presented and what is on the menu. That means you plan regular meals and snacks at the table. It means that you decide the menu (this does not include asking them what they want, but it does include sympathetic meal planning, including at least one item that you know they will eat, such as bread and butter or cottage chesse or whatever) -- in my family, that especially meant not forcing hard-to-swallow things on young toddlers, or very chewy things on people with loose teeth.) I don't recall if Satter was okay with people getting up from the table to make PBJ or whatever, but I would not be, unless I put it on the table. What I serve is what is on the menu, period, but I can do that because I always include at least one item they like. Even if they refuse it - doesn't matter.

Children are in charge of what they eat, and how much (if any at all). Food is served family style, and children are in charge of what they put on their plate. Satter does NOT believe in the "no thank you bite," never mind a certain number of bites. She says if the kids see you or someone else enjoying something with obvious pleasure, they will probably gear themselves up to try it eventually, and like it eventually, even if it is liver and onions. If it is part of your family food culture, they will probably eventually enjoy it. She feels that children who are forced to try unfamiliar flavors and textures are not getting a chance to mature on their own - and that forcing maturity on them often backfires and creates the kind of unpleasant family meals that I witnessed. (Just a postscript there - the worst of the mealtime families has visited us recently - one child starting college, one in high school. Neither of these kids seems to enjoy spending time with the parent who was the pushiest about forcing food).

I don't remember if it was from Satter or just from me, but making faces or rude comments about food is simply not allowed. If you don't like it, don't eat it; if it's in your mouth, either swallow or discretely use your napkin. You must always thank the cook for cooking, whether or not you ate any of it or liked any of it.

One other thing that might be helpful. When she wrote the first edition of her first book, the crazy food trend of the time was low fat this and low fat that. She recounted how one family that was incredibly strict about food had a hard time getting their daughter to eat, and she explained why that was making it hard for the child at that age, as well as being somewhat nutritionally suspect for that age. She got the family to lighten up a little bit and things changed. I don't see any reason why eating real whole foods would be a problem, but you might want to check your dinner menus just to make sure that at least some of the food you are serving is sympathetic to their current tastes. But after that, your job is done.

We've never forced, although sometimes I find myself overstepping when I know it is something that will be LOVED if I could just get it in the mouth. But then I stop and remember.

All that said, I'm not sure these techniques are why things have been turning out well for us. Some things are just innate. And some things are how you look at them - when I look at your description, I see kids who seem to be eating very well and are lucky to have a mom who is thoughtful about nutrition.


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## MrsBone (Apr 20, 2004)

I'm in the same boat with food for my family I'm finding now that my son is 4 1/2. He's decided he doesn't like certain foods he used to gobble up. It doesn't help that there are certain things I don't prepare because I'd DH. He has serious texture issues. I never try and prepare mushrooms since DH won't even try them because of the texture. If I want to introduce new foods cooked different ways, I try and save it for breakfast or dinner when hubs isn't around.makes me a little crazy but it is what it is. DS has decided he doesn't like mushrooms. I've found that since my DS loves salad, he'll eat most veggies if they are tossed in dressing, even when he complains about not liking peppers and onions. I usually have him try one bite of a previously hated veggie if I've prepared it a different way. DH is usually a good sport about it even if he knows he doesn't like it, just to be a good example. Overall my kids get the nutrition they need but the variety has definitely lessened over the past 6 months. I usually just prepare small plates for them so not as much food gets wasted and make sure 3/4 of the plate is food I know they will like.


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## cattmom (Apr 6, 2009)

I just wanted to add something about different parts of the tongue and different tastes. I was taught that, too, but it never made much sense to me. It turns out that it's a myth that arose when someone did a bad job translating a scientific paper written in German. http://www.livescience.com/7113-tongue-map-tasteless-myth-debunked.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/health/11real.html?_r=2&

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue_map


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Cattmom, thanks for your post about Satter! I think I've seen her mentioned here before -- the name sounds familiar. We take a similar approach here -- I just act sort of disinterested in whether my kids are eating. They know that saying "yuck" is not okay, and if they tell me they don't like something I murmer a distracted, "Hmm, eat what you like" (knowing there's at least one thing they like on their plate) and go back to enjoying my meal.

It's a good approach for the most part, and my 8-year-old will eat pretty much anything I serve now. My 5-year-old is still a bit picky, which I think is normal for her age. One thing I do run into with her is that she'll eat very little at dinner time and then be hungry for a snack later. She'd be happy to eat nothing for dinner every night and then just have a banana before bed. What does Satter say about that? I struggle because I do think a bedtime snack is okay (the 8-year-old often asks for one too, even though be ate plenty at dinner), and I don't want the snack to be tied to eating dinner (as in, no you didn't eat your dinner so no snack for you), but OTOH it's frustrating to prepare and serve a meal only to scrape DD's portion into the trash and give her a banana 2 hours later.

Sometimes, if the meal is something that can be left out at room temp for a while, I'll leave her plate out and if she tells me she's hungry I'll direct her back to her dinner, but that feels sort of punitive for some reason.


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## cattmom (Apr 6, 2009)

I can't remember if Satter says anything about it. We decided that nothing would be on offer after dinner, partly because I saw the awful nightly struggles that a relative and her kids had over their "night night treat." Bedtime at their house was always associated with screaming tantrums, and part of the fuss involved these tense negotiations over what the night night treat would be and whether you could lose it for rotten behavior. I think they might have adopted "night night treat" as a currency to negotiate a peaceful bedtime with, but it kind of had the opposite effect. Using food in any bribe/punishment scenario is definitely anti-Satter. Anyway, in our family, we decided dinner would be the last food before bedtime. Occasionally an exception if circumstances are truly strange that day - we're talking maybe three times a year.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

So if they choose not to eat dinner and then tell you they're hungry later, how does that conversation go?

I'm asking because like I said, we sometimes direct DD back to her dinner plate when she does that, but also we do allow a piece of fruit before bed if they want, whether they ate dinner or not.


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## cattmom (Apr 6, 2009)

To be honest, I can't really remember the last time we had a conversation like that. Maybe it's because bedtime and dinner aren't very far apart for us. As time goes on and bedtimes get later, things might change. I know in younger years we had conversations that were answered by "There is no food after dinner, but we'll have breakfast right after you wake up." But you know, we did used to have bottle of milk at bedtimes as a sleep cue. So I guess my rule was just a solid food rule.


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## Nightwish (Sep 9, 2008)

Satter recommends 2-3 snacks a day, so one of those can be a bedtime snack.
If you know your dk doesn't eat much for dinner, you could serve a smaller portion. She can always have seconds..


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## colemom (Nov 3, 2008)

We follow the Satter method. My kids are 7 and 3.5, they eat dinner about 5:30 and go to bed about 7:30 (the 3.5 year old straight to bed and the 7 year old reads until 8). I don't feel like wanting a small snack two hours after dinner is unreasonable and it's not a battle I want to fight. When they ask, they get a piece of cheese, it has no crumbs and some protein and fat to fill their belly and help them sleep. It's never been an issue or interfered with dinner eating.

When my ds7 was going through his pickiest stage was when I learned about Satter, prior to that he had been eating a lot of pb&j (which was actually not a bad replacement). I started including bread and butter or cheese at dinners that I knew he was going to struggle with, and always fruit and a veggie he liked (breakfast and lunch had never been an issue). I also would separate ingredients for him, meals that were mixed were hard for him. He has some sensory issues so I have to be careful to not push too hard.

I really feel like it helped, it gave him the choice within boundaries, and I knew he was eating healthy foods because that's all I was offering. Now he eats a much larger variety and I do believe it's because I did not make it a source of tension.


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## grethel (Mar 14, 2009)

This is timely for us. We are facing a food conundrum. My 3.5 year old has always had a small appetite, seeming to only eat the bare minimum required to get her through the day. We eat healthy, whole foods for the most part, and I'm home with her so she has the opportunity for three meals and two or three snacks throughout the day. She is not a very picky eater -- she likes lots of vegetables, fruits, legumes, dairy -- she's not so big on bread, pasta, meat or other very "filling" foods but she will eat a small portion of almost anything.

We've always followed a simplistic version of Satter's method: I decide what and when, she decides how much. But lately, we find ourselves having to resist encouraging her to eat more. She's always been on the "tall and slender" growth curve, and while we've been a bit concerned at times that she was too thin, her pedi assured us that her curve was consistent, and that as long as she is hitting all her milestones, is active and energetic, and isn't getting sick frequently that we shouldn't worry. Recently, though, she's started eating even less, and is now down to a BMI in the 3rd percentile, which makes her clinically underweight. While she still fits her pedi's definition of healthy, we find ourselves encouraging her to eat "just one more bite" before she leaves the table, and doing more lecturing than we'd like on topics like "food is like fuel that makes our bodies go." I also find that we've become so happy to see her eat something that if she only eats two bites of carrot for dinner, but wants ice cream later, we sometimes have a hard time saying no. (She only eats a little of the ice cream, too, but she definitely has a yen for chocolate and will usually eat more of that than of other things -- and I'm stuck between "not micromanaging her food choices/bargaining about eating healthy foods before other stuff" and "not wanting her to subsist solely on ice cream.")

So, for those of you who prefer a hands-off approach to eating, and allow children autonomy in choosing how much to eat - how would you handle an underweight child? Would the idea that, perhaps, some children don't eat all of the calories they need all by themselves change your practices, and if so, how?

We already have some strategies that we've always used with her, which are: offering nutrient-dense foods, adding extra calories (peanut butter in her oatmeal, cheese in her eggs, cooking her foods in olive oil, etc); finding what times and places she will eat more and taking advantage of that (she's more willing to eat her snack at the park, where it's fun to have a picnic, or at home she will sit still to eat more while we play a game or read a book). Anything else?

I know many kids this age go through a phase where they don't want to eat much, and it passes. She's always been like this, so I don't think it's a phase. FWIW, she has no other sensory issues at all, texture doesn't seem to be a problem, she has no GI problems or any apparent health issues, and is generally a happy, easygoing, very neurotypical kid.


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grethel*
> (She only eats a little of the ice cream, too, but she definitely has a yen for chocolate and will usually eat more of that than of other things -- and I'm stuck between "not micromanaging her food choices/bargaining about eating healthy foods before other stuff" and "not wanting her to subsist solely on ice cream.")
> 
> So, for those of you who prefer a hands-off approach to eating, and allow children autonomy in choosing how much to eat - how would you handle an underweight child? Would the idea that, perhaps, some children don't eat all of the calories they need all by themselves change your practices, and if so, how?
> ...


Here is my opinion as a mom, assuming your dd doesn't have any health problems (as your pediatrician assured you).

I see some glitches in the division of responsibility (you decide what food and when / she decides what and how much). First, you are trying to make her eat more calorie-dense food and my opinion is that if they feel pressured, chances are they'll eat less, not more.

Secondly, Satter mentions that sweets or desserts are not to be treated as regular food because they have an advantage over regular food, so she recommends one portion only, assuming that you actually enjoy having dessert. So I wouldn't let her fill up on ice cream or chocolate.

We have dessert every day after dinner, but I don't offer seconds, so I know they can't survive on sweets. I don't link it to how much they eat, or whether they eat for dinner, so we don't have any fights over it.

Here's a quote that I like from Satter's website, that can help identify pressure:

"Pressure on children's eating *always* backfires. Keep in mind that all children are more-or-less picky about food. Trying to get a child to eat more than she wants makes her eat less. Trying to get her to eat less than she wants makes her eat more. Trying to get her to eat certain foods makes her avoid them. Trying to get her to be neat and tidy makes her messy. Putting up with negative behavior in hopes she will eat makes her behave badly but not eat. What to do instead? Follow the division of responsibility in feeding!


*Pressure can seem positive:* Praising, reminding, bribing, rewarding, applauding, playing games, talking about nutrition, giving stickers, going on and on about how great the food is, making special food, serving vegetables first.
*Pressure can be negative:* Restricting amounts or types of food, coaxing, punishing, shaming, criticizing, begging, withholding dessert, treats, or fun activities, physically forcing, threatening.
*Pressure can seem like good parenting:* Insisting on "no thank you" bites, encouraging or reminding her to eat, taste, smell or lick, making her eat her vegetables, warning her that she will be hungry, making special food, keeping after her to use her silverware or napkin, hiding vegetables in other foods, letting her eat whenever she wants to between meals.
*Pressure can be hard to detect:* Ask yourself why you are doing something with feeding. Is it to get your child to eat more, less or different food than he does on his own? If so, it is *pressure.*"


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## grethel (Mar 14, 2009)

Thanks! Food for thought. I like the reminder of all the different kinds of pressure.

A couple of things: When I mentioned offering calorie-dense foods, it's only things she likes and actually prefers (ie, she likes her oatmeal better with peanut butter... she prefers cheese in her eggs... etc). It's not that I'm trying to make her eat more nutrient-dense foods. I just make sure those are on offer, instead of offering something less -- similar to offering whole wheat bread instead of white, I guess would be a good comparison. I offer the same kinds of things I always have since she began table food.

Also, maybe I wasn't clear - we also only have one treat or sweet food per day. So when I mentioned subsisting solely on ice cream, I didn't mean that I'd give her seconds or allow her to have as much as she wants. I meant that, if she chooses not to eat anything else that day or only has a little handful of veggies, and then she does choose to eat her daily treat of ice cream, the ice cream is all she's eaten all day. Thus, she's solely subsisting on it. I'm concerned about something like that happening on a regular basis, but it seems like the alternative is to say "no, you may not have the ice cream because you haven't eaten anything else," which feels like managing her food intake. Would you be okay with it if your child chose to eat nothing but a scoop of ice cream each day on a regular basis? I guess I'd like to say I would be, but really I don't think I am, because even with vitamins, that doesn't feel like suitable fuel for her growing body.

I've always been very hands-off -- we did baby-led weaning from infancy, so she's always had control of what she chose to eat. It's only very recently, as her weight has dipped from her usual "skinny but healthy" to "clinically underweight," that I've started to feel the urge to encourage her to eat more. For that reason, I'm not sure her habits are due to me pressuring her, though I'll certainly keep it in mind when I'm tempted to ask her to take a few more bites.


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## transylvania_mom (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grethel*
> 
> Also, maybe I wasn't clear - we also only have one treat or sweet food per day. So when I mentioned subsisting solely on ice cream, I didn't mean that I'd give her seconds or allow her to have as much as she wants. I meant that, if she chooses not to eat anything else that day or only has a little handful of veggies, and then she does choose to eat her daily treat of ice cream, the ice cream is all she's eaten all day. Thus, she's solely subsisting on it. I'm concerned about something like that happening on a regular basis, but it seems like the alternative is to say "no, you may not have the ice cream because you haven't eaten anything else," which feels like managing her food intake. Would you be okay with it if your child chose to eat nothing but a scoop of ice cream each day on a regular basis? I guess I'd like to say I would be, but really I don't think I am, because even with vitamins, that doesn't feel like suitable fuel for her growing body.
> 
> I've always been very hands-off -- we did baby-led weaning from infancy, so she's always had control of what she chose to eat. It's only very recently, as her weight has dipped from her usual "skinny but healthy" to "clinically underweight," that I've started to feel the urge to encourage her to eat more. For that reason, I'm not sure her habits are due to me pressuring her, though I'll certainly keep it in mind when I'm tempted to ask her to take a few more bites.


Honestly, I don't think that a child, barring medical issues, would starve themselves. We offer dessert after dinner and there is no way my dk would subsist with nothing until 6pm. So I think if your dd is given the choice, she would eat something else other than ice cream, without you encouraging her to eat. She might not eat as much as you want her to, but she will eat as much as her body requires for her to grow.

You can try two things in order to get some reassurance that your dd is eating well.

Firstly, consider how much she eats (without interference) during the course of a week, not a single day, or a single meal.

Secondly, look your or your dh's pictures as children; her being slim might be just genetics.

I have one skinny kid (8), and a chubby one (4). When I stepped back and let them regulate their own intake I was amazed to see how well and balanced they eat, although they have their preferences.

I wouldn't worry about percentiles, if your doctor doesn't. Being in the 3 percentile means that out of 100 normal kids, three are your dd's weight or less.

My dd was in the obese percentile last year and I freaked out. I took her to several doctors which reassured me that she was growing well. I was fortunate enough to read Satter's book and I stopped worrying. Now a year later she has the same weight but grew in height, and her BMI is normal.

HTH


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## grethel (Mar 14, 2009)

OK, thanks. I don't think she will literally starve, either, but I guess our hope is that she gets enough for optimal health and growth. She does seem healthy and energetic (and yes, dh and I were both slim kids, though not to her extreme). She is anemic, but she takes iron for that, a multivite for other essential nutrients, and fish oil when we can.

I have a teenager, so I'm not lacking experience with feeding kids - but my older dd, while more choosy about what foods she would eat, always has had a healthy appetite -- not too much, not too little. I never thought much about it. I haven't had experience with one who just chooses not to eat.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grethel*
> 
> I haven't had experience with one who just chooses not to eat.


I've had 2 of those out of 2 kids. Food is not motivating for either one. DD2 has a tender tummy (possible food intolerances) and suspected (mild) sensory processing difficulties. DD1 failed to connect eating with the sensation of hunger until she was 4.5, probably stemming from severe pain while nursing as an infant.

From ages 3 to 5 I think some kids survive on air. I did have dd2 tested for anemia at one point, and she was fine. If this child's hemoglobin was normal, then something much more severe must cause anemia than simply being a picky eater and not eating much.

Quote:


> So, for those of you who prefer a hands-off approach to eating, and allow children autonomy in choosing how much to eat - how would you handle an underweight child? Would the idea that, perhaps, some children don't eat all of the calories they need all by themselves change your practices, and if so, how?


For my first daughter, I pretty much let her eat what she wanted, when she wanted. That even meant sugar if she wanted, to a large extent though not endlessly even though I was encouraged that I could do just that if need be. That was the biggest change. The goal was to get her to connect eating with positive experiences.

For dd2 coming up close behind, well, she got a fair amount of that by default. I'm afraid all the conventional wisdom flies out the window in our house. We love our sugar, but the girls regularly graze raw veggies from the garden, and dd1 just had lentils and sauerkraut for lunch, along with some orange juice. DD2 is still a monstrously picky eater, even at nearly 7yo, and is still the skinniest girl down on the gym floor, but I try to take the long view of things, and I see her relaxing a little, especially in regards to food she dislikes being on the table at dinner. She tried a few things when she was at day camp, though she still didn't eat more than a flea's serving. Like I said, food and being hungry has never been a motivator with my girls.

I am a short order cook and I don't see what the big deal is (that is another thing that has changed-- I resisted until it was pointless for me to resist and now I wonder what the fuss was all about.)


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

I am similar to SweetSilver. I have one child with severe feeding issues, I don't care what he eats as long as he eats. I will and do frequently drive across town to pick up a food item if he asks for it because the other alternative is that he won't eat, sometimes for days at a time.


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## grethel (Mar 14, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SweetSilver*
> 
> I've had 2 of those out of 2 kids. Food is not motivating for either one. DD2 has a tender tummy (possible food intolerances) and suspected (mild) sensory processing difficulties. DD1 failed to connect eating with the sensation of hunger until she was 4.5, probably stemming from severe pain while nursing as an infant.
> 
> From ages 3 to 5 I think some kids survive on air. I did have dd2 tested for anemia at one point, and she was fine. If this child's hemoglobin was normal, then something much more severe must cause anemia than simply being a picky eater and not eating much.


Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm interested that you mention nursing pain possibly being a factor for your 2nd dd. Mine had silent reflux, until she was about 1.5. She took medication that kept it mostly under control, but her first couple of months of life, there was a lot of crying related to eating. (Didn't stop her from being a devoted nurseling, though - she weaned at 3).

As for the anemia, it's mild and her pedi said it's not uncommon in toddlers/preschoolers. I suspected it because she doesn't care for meat. She'll occasionally eat a little chicken or bacon, but no red meat. She actually really likes other high-iron foods, like tofu, edamame, nut butter, and beans, but plant-based sources are less bioavailable and I think she simply doesn't eat a large enough portion to get enough. She also loves milk, and too much milk is bad for iron absorption. It's not a big deal for now, since we found an iron supplement she will take without a fuss. (We have weird iron issues in our family anyway -- I have a genetic disease related to iron storage. Though it's the opposite problem to hers, it might be related in some way.)


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grethel*
> 
> I'm interested that you mention nursing pain possibly being a factor for your 2nd dd. Mine had silent reflux, until she was about 1.5. She took medication that kept it mostly under control, but her first couple of months of life, there was a lot of crying related to eating. (Didn't stop her from being a devoted nurseling, though - she weaned at 3).


For my first. Yes, I was told by the OT that infants who experience severe pain associated with nursing sometimes can fail to connect hunger with the need for food because it is first associated with pain. Most people think the hunger/food connection is something that is built-in, but it isn't. It really is something that is learned (very, very early) and that connection can get hijacked by things such as severe reflux, allergies and physical pain from nursing. In my daughter, I really did notice this, and I told the OT during our introduction that it didn't seem like my (then 2.5yo) daughter knew that food and hunger are related.

Sure enough, she not only agreed with me, she even had a handout on the very subject for me. Clearly this was a myth she had to counter often in her line of work. It was really obvious to me that my daughter didn't make the connection, but everybody kept saying "if they are hungry enough, she will eat". But mine didn't and I was confused and second guessed my intuition because, yes, I had always heard that as well and "believed" that, even though it was being contradicted before my very eyes. Believed, that is, until I met with the therapist--one that specifically studied eating disorders of a mechanical nature. I've told this story before, and it ends when she was 4.5yo and she looked up at me wide-eyed at the lunch table and said to me "Mom! When I eat, my tummy feels better!" She had finally made that connection! At 4.5yo!

Between this revelation and one final revision to her diet after we diagnosed a new food allergy, and she has been eating well ever since, though, again, never particularly motivated by food. I watch in awe and slight envy those families with kids who will happily eat Whatever, and eat until they have to be told they'd had enough-- the kids that are always hungry or really will eat if they get hungry enough.


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## moving toward (Nov 14, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grethel*
> 
> Thanks! Food for thought. I like the reminder of all the different kinds of pressure.
> 
> ...


I am having the exact same problem with my 3 yo - only it's just fruit she'll eat. The pedi recommends loading her up with desert but she doesn't like it so her calories are extremely low. I'm worried its affecting her height


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