# February 09 mamas - they're not babies anymore!



## mckittre

Taking the plunge and moving us over to toddlers!

Katmai just had his first visit to the zoo today - great fun, and he loved the animals, but I think he found the strollers that other kids were being pushed in almost as interesting.

He still won't take more than a step or two, but will stand all day. He has always refused to walk with a hand held - it's by himself or nothing.


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## Everrgreen

Well here we are in toddler-land, I guess it's official!

After my last post Royce seemed a bit better (I got him to eat something and play for a while). But now he's sleepy and fussy and fevering again







I've given him some homepathic cold medicine for babies, but I'm wondering if maybe he needs something stronger. I feel so bad for him, he's so sad









McKittre - Oh I'm jealous of your zoo trip! This past weekend I was visiting my mom and there is a zoo in her town, but it rained all weekend so we didn't go. I'll be back there for Easter so hopefully the weather will cooperate.

This week I'm getting my bike out of storage and going to get a bike seat for Royce! I am sooo excited. I had planned on getting a trailer but I'm living in an apartment and realized my bike+trailer wouldn't fit in the elevator or in my storage closet. So I think I'll be getting the weeride seat, as long as it will work with my bike. I really really can't wait


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## Nillarilla

subbing in
Gillian I hope Royce is better soon. Delia has a wicked cough and rattly breathing and a mild fever on and off. She's so cranky and I'm giving her tylenol before bed because she just keeps waking up crying. I've also been feeding her raw garlic which she actually doesn't mind. I hate working when she's sick it sucks!


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## monkaha

no way. nope. not a toddler here. nuh-uh. toddlers are big. much older than our babies.


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## newmothermary

Joining to gang here from babeland.









Miles just turned one and is one mischievious little monkey! His latest thing is hiding things like his shoes in places I swear is the black hole because I can't ever find them again. A former bath-liker now thinks he's being tortured in the tub. Hope this is a real short phase!
He's a full time walker now and its a lot of fun and he comes up with so many ways to keep me on my toes. A late crawler (10.5 mos) I thought he'd crawl for a while before walking but here's another way our little ones will do what they will when they will.

Hope all the sickie little ones feel better soon!

Mary


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## Mal85

Wow, I'm kind of amazed to be over here in toddler-land. It's so strange how she's gotten so big and I still see her as that newborn baby in my mind. Will it always be that way?

We just got back from a 4-day trip visiting friends. We took the Amtrak, it was about a 3.5 hour ride. She was so funny when the train first took off. She was looking around like she didn't know what was going on, then I pointed out the window for her and she just squealed and screamed and jumped up and down in her seat. She thought that was the coolest thing ever. Almost all the way to our destination, she'd point out the window and jabber away like she was telling me about everything she saw. Too funny!

We went swimming this weekend, which was another thing she thought was the coolest thing ever. We haven't gone since last summer, so I wondered what she would think of it. She loved it! She even put her own head under the water several times, she loves it! Our ride home wasn't quite as successful. With the time change this weekend, she was thrown off and super tired by the time we got on the train, but too distracted to fall asleep. She finally passed out about an hour from our stop.

She's working on getting some molars right now. Her back gums are super swollen, they're getting really close. Surprisingly, she's handled it really well. I was expecting the molars to be toughies for us, but she hasn't seemed to notice them so far.

ETA: I hear you on the hiding of things. Owyn's new favorite thing to do is throw things in the trash can. Shoes, socks, toys. You name it, they go into the trash! I've been trying to give her actual trash to throw away so she learns what belongs in there. We'll see if it works.


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## Thursday Girl

Junes loves the zoo, we got a pass for the one down the street..ooh my friend is here, bbl


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## AKislandgirl

Well here we are! This really makes me want another baby now! lol

Miss Fiona is in a biting phase. A biting Mama phase I should say. My nipple, my shoulder, my leg... but mostly my nipple. It sucks so bad. She did this when she first got her teeth at 4 months but we've had a resurgance of it. I just pop her off the boob, yell no, that hurts Mama and set her down and walk away. It may be working because yesterday we had no biting. DH tells her gentle to Mama, gentle to NuNu. You made Mama sad. She'll sign gentle back to him, come find me and give me kisses. I just hope that this is over soon. I really was crying the other day... more from frustration but I think that may have helped the situation actually. I'd like to blame teething on this but who knows...

Oooh the zoo! I have a trip planned to the Woodland Park Zoo in Seattle when we are in the area this summer. I'll be down there for 3 weeks following a week in Ohio. My mom is pretty excited to bring her and see what she thinks. Should be a blast!


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## Everrgreen

Thursday - you have a zoo down the street!!! Now THAT I am jealous of!

AK - I remember somebody saying once that babies often bite their mamas because they have so much love for them that it's overwhelming and they don't know how to express it other than to bite. Because they love you and they want you and they just have to have you right now. But I'm sure it must be frustrating! Royce bites a bit but just when he's overtired. I hope you are able to show Fiona some gentler ways of showing her love









Mal - glad your trip went well! I would love to take Royce for a train trip, I think it would be fun. Maybe when he's a bit older though.

Royce is doing much better today, his nose is still really snotty, and it's really red and sore from me constantly cleaning it up







But his mood is improved, he's happy and playing again!


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
I remember somebody saying once that babies often bite their mamas because they have so much love for them that it's overwhelming and they don't know how to express it other than to bite. Because they love you and they want you and they just have to have you right now. But I'm sure it must be frustrating! Royce bites a bit but just when he's overtired. I hope you are able to show Fiona some gentler ways of showing her love










That makes sense. I baby sit my nephew (18 months old). He's a biter/pincher/hitter. But you can tell it's out of excitement and sometimes love. He gives hugs, but gets too excited and starts pinching while giving a hug. Same with kisses turning into bites. Hard to be upset with him when it's obvious he just wants to show some love but doesn't quite understand what's appropriate, ya know.

Owyn has bitten me while nursing and sometimes on the shoulder when she's overtired. I did much the same as you, AK. I put her down and said, very firmly, "No no, that hurts Mommy." If she really wanted to nurse, she'd get upset and cry for me. If she was done (because she'd often do it when she was either done and just playing or was falling asleep at the breast), then she'd just go on to something else. Luckily, she learned pretty quick and doesn't really bite anymore.


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## Vegan Princess

Makenna took a big poop in the tub tonight! Ewww! It was bad too!! LOL!

Makenna's top teeth are just now growing in. Or 1 is. The other has barely popped through. She was bititng a little yesterday when she was sleeping and slipping off. I'm afraid of a full on bite! Sounds awful!

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Hi everyone!

So here we are in toddlerland ... wow.









Esmé just popped her first tooth! We were at an orientation meeting for another co-op, and she was nursing and popped off, giving me a view of her upper gums, and there it was, a wedge of upper front tooth! She's not going to need dentures after all (kidding ... kidding ...)!

I'm working more, and it's going okay for Esmé. I think I miss her more than she misses me. I hand express whenever I can, and nurse as soon as I walk in the door. She spent the day with grandma yesterday and they both had a great time. I'm glad she's attached to a few other people, as well as me. She's always happy to go to her auntie and her grandma, and both DP and I.

Esmé starts her SECOND set of swim lessons next month! She did the first set when she was 5 months old, so this is the next level. She's a fish! She loves the water, and can blow bubbles, jump in off the side, and dunk her head with glee.

I had to say no to a book tour (one of my book was nominated for an award) because I wasn't able to take Esmé with me, nor my mom to look after her while I did the author presentations (did I mention that I'm an author as well as paramedic? If not ... I'm dishin' the scoop now). I'm disappointed about that, but am not prepared to leave her for a week. No way, no chance. I hope it doesn't hurt my chances of winning, though! Just the thought of even one night away from Esmé makes my heart wince!

Best wishes and healing vibes to all the sickies!


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## Vegan Princess

Hooray for Esme's first tooth!!! And a top one at that!







I hope your book can still win Starling. I could never leave my baby for a week!!! What a horrible thought. My friend went to Mexico and left her 4 month old for 3 nights..I couldn't believe it! She weaned before she went. I felt so bad for the baby - though I hear she did pretty well.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Starling, that's too bad they wouldn't let you take Esme! (I say as I'm dragging my kid and husband around on book tour right now). I hope you win anyway!

Katmai just got his 5th tooth, and is drooling enough that #6 should not be far behind.

Mary - Katmai suddenly turned afraid of the water as well. Used to like baths, used to like the pool, now wants nothing to do with it. All that taking him to the pool to get him used to the water didn't pay off at all... Hope it's a short phase.


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## Everrgreen

Woohoo for new teeth! In my experience biting hasn't been too bad. It mainly just startles me, and then I unlatch and say 'no biting' or 'biting means all done with nursing'. He doesn't do it too often anymore, well he never was too bad with it. And it happens when he's overtired or fussy or at the end of nursing when he is all done anyway.

I also can't imagine leaving Royce overnight. I have never left him for more then about 3 hours







My dad was telling me about one of his employees who went away for a weekend with his wife and left the baby (7-8 months old, I think?) and how nice it was for them, and I should do something for myself. That does not sound like a fun weekend for me, I wouldn't enjoy myself at all. But I am starting to leave him more and more for a few hours at a time. It's nice to get out...and then come home and sleep cuddled with my baby









Starling - I knew you were also an author so you must have mentioned it at some point! I hope you book wins







Are you a children's author? Or am I just making that up?

Cindy - Oh my gosh! Royce hasn't pooped in the tub since he was maybe a couple months old. And then it was just breastmilk poop so it could go down the drain. If he pooped now it would need to be scooped out - yuck!! But he has pretty noticeable signs for his poops so I doubt I would miss that happening for him!

We are having GORGEOUS weather here and it has been wonderful!! Today we get the bike set up and go for Royce's first bike ride! I am so so so excited


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## AKislandgirl

Happy St Patrick's Day!

I hope Royce is feeling even better today. I bought the Nose Frida after Fiona's last cold. It's awesome! You all should check it out. She's had a runny nose since that cold and the nosefrida totally worked and she laughed while I used it. The soft landing has a demonstration video...

Well, we have been bite free for two days now. I don't want to jinx myself but I do think that she is starting to understand. I sure hope so anyway.

Congratulations on the award nomination Starling! That is awesome. I would not have left Esmé to go on tour either. I don't blame you one bit! Let us know how it goes with the award!!


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## LionTigerBear

Hey everyone! Eliza is definitely a toddler now. I keep forgetting she is only 12 months old! She's been walking everywhere for a month, and she plays right along with her older brothers (3 and 5.) She even has her own foam sword, now (sword fights are the boys' favorite game!) She has started climbing, too, which I could REALLY do without, seriously!

She also started opening cupboards and drawers and emptying them . . . sigh . . . so we have started installing those door/drawer catches everywhere she can reach. Oh, and the throwing things away? Check! Ugh! Our trash can is usually out in her reach and sometimes I have to set it in the sink to keep it away from her. I do enlist her help in throwing things away for me when it's appropriate, though, and she LOVES that. She also is a big helper for flushing the toilet.









She "talks" a lot, too, and very confidently. Usually it's just baby babble but she throws "real" words in there, too. The other day she said "What's that?" for the first time and it just blew me away.

She LOVEs reading and will just cry when I can't read to her right away, or if we read one of the boys' books first. I am trying not to spoil her anymore than she already is, lol. IE, if I'm reading to the boys I'm not going to stop and read her book just because she's crying! But it does complicate things. Trying to read the book and stopping every page to reassure Eliza that her turn is next . . .


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## justKate

OMG poop in the tub. Ugh. Thankfully the one time it happened it was just a squirt! That might be something Baba would have to handle if it got any worse.

I TOO LOVE the nose frida. Aubs had constant ear infections and colds from six months on, and since we started using the nose frida she hasn't had one ear infection. Might just be a coincidence, but I'm sold! Love it love it love it. She HATES IT, so I have to hold her down to use it, but 1 minute of torture every night is better than days of pain from an ear infection!

Aubs still bites me, but not while nursing. She bites when she's tired (my shoulders, legs, belly) and when she gives kisses (mouth wide open, coming at my face). We're trying to learn to be gentle but its really not working. Interestingly, she doesn't bite Huz. Not sure what's up with that.

Can you all believe we're in TODDLERS ALREADY!?


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## AKislandgirl

Gillian: I'm in the same boat as you. A couple of hours here or there is all that I have left Fiona. I'm actually more comfortable with it now and I've only left her with DH. A whole weekend (or even day!) does not appeal to me but I have enjoyed having an hour or two here or there. I'm trying to do it a bit more to recharge. Especially before summer when DH will be gone. He'll be fishing (research not commercial) for a month and has to leave town for a few weeks before that. Anyhow...getting some Mama time in while I can!


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## Mal85

I left Owyn with DH for a weekend when she was 8 months old. I thought it would be much harder than it actually was. I didn't sleep well, which sucks because a full night's sleep is what I was looking forward to, but oh well. She did really great for him. It always surprises me when I leave her with someone that she survives. I mean, that other people are able to meet her needs and she lets them do that. I anticipate it being much worse than it ever is. We have no gone on a trip together leaving her with anyone. DH's parents would be the only people I'd trust with that job at this age, and they've said they don't want to do that until she's nightweaned, which I totally get. I don't want to leave her with anyone besides DH until she is at least nightweaned. And my luck, baby #2 will be soon after that, so we'll just start all over.

I have a friend due with a baby in May and she just informed me that she is going to quit her job to be a SAHM (maybe baby sit a kid or two) after the baby is born. I'm super excited for her, plus it may bring about an opportunity for me. I'm going to talk to her tomorrow about her job. She works as a librarian about 15 minutes away from where I live. I'm feeling the itch to do something different. I wish I could just be a SAHM, but I know we can't make that work financially. I'm just burnt out on caring for so many kids all the time and we can't afford for me to cut back right now either. I was hoping to get the business going outside of the home, but the two people that were going to do it with me are both expecting babies right now, so it's on hold for now. So, I'm thinking a job outside the home might be a good thing while I'm waiting to have #2 and waiting for the others to be ready to start our business. And with my friend staying at home, I may have a great place for Owyn to stay. She's very into AP as well and cooks almost all organically, she's super sweet and probably the most patient person I know. So I know she would be so good for Owyn.

I don't know, I just found all this out recently and the idea of the job just came to me today. So, it's nothing serious, just something to consider. I know something needs to change soon though. I was telling DH I feel like I've been in a bad mood since Christmas. My temper is short and I just feel like I'm not doing my best anymore and can't seem to muster the motivation to do better. I thought our long weekend would help, but I'm still feeling burnt out even right after we got home.


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
I don't know, I just found all this out recently and the idea of the job just came to me today. So, it's nothing serious, just something to consider. I know something needs to change soon though. I was telling DH I feel like I've been in a bad mood since Christmas. My temper is short and I just feel like I'm not doing my best anymore and can't seem to muster the motivation to do better. I thought our long weekend would help, but I'm still feeling burnt out even right after we got home.

I know exactly how you feel! Caring for other people kids is such hard work. It may be as simple as not wanting to do the dinner dishes till the next day because you are tired. You can't though because you have kids and parents coming in the morning. Or your own kid is having an off day but you have all of these other children to care for so you don't feel like you can make the adjustments to your day that she needs. Hang in there Mal! Can you take a "spring break"? Just be at home for a week with Owyn? As fun as travel is, it is also stressful at times. Maybe a week to yourselves would help you get through.


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
I know exactly how you feel! Caring for other people kids is such hard work. It may be as simple as not wanting to do the dinner dishes till the next day because you are tired. You can't though because you have kids and parents coming in the morning. Or your own kid is having an off day but you have all of these other children to care for so you don't feel like you can make the adjustments to your day that she needs. Hang in there Mal! Can you take a "spring break"? Just be at home for a week with Owyn? As fun as travel is, it is also stressful at times. Maybe a week to yourselves would help you get through.

Exactly. Everything you said. I just feel like I never get a break because I have all these kids here all day, and when they leave I still have Owyn to take care of. And I want to be the best mom possible for her which is hard when I'm so exhausted at the end of the day. I guess that wouldn't change much if I was working a full day and coming home to her at night, who knows? I've had this itch before and it passed, so I keep waiting for this to pass too, just seems like it's lasting forever.


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## Nillarilla

Wow toddler land! Delia's not toddling yet so I don't quite feel that I am there yet but it's coming very soon. I know I need a career change but right now in my profession the all days rotation is not really available in other areas. I'm just not sure I want to go back to shift work. I thought about cutting down to part time but then decided against it because if we decide to have another baby I want my full maternity benefits. I think I am just going to take a couple days off without pay here and there especially on weekends so we get more family time.

Biting.... ouchie yeah I'm experiencing it too when she is done nursing so I often pop her off as soon as the sucking stops preemptively because I'm afraid of the bite.

I might be going out to some premiere's dinner with my hubby for work tonight but my bf is still in the hospital with her babe who had hyperbilirubinemia really bad. He also had group B strep in his urine even though she tested negative. I haven't been to see them in a couple days and she sounds really down. I've been so busy today my house is a mess and I have no motivation to clean it because I don't want to wake Delia. She's having a super long nap and she slept really crappy last night so she needs it. I went to see my cousin's wife and their new baby today to give some breastfeeding support and he is jaundiced too. So now I'm headed back up there tommorow to check on them.

I'm just feeling a little overwhelmed ugh! Delia has finally stopped coughing and is now just a little snotty.

I hope my sitter doesn't get burnt out watching my kids. I don't know how I'd cope without her. I don't know how she does it as it is. I couldn't I know that.


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
Starling - I knew you were also an author so you must have mentioned it at some point! I hope you book wins







Are you a children's author? Or am I just making that up?


Sort of ... novels for teenagers. Good memory!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
I hope my sitter doesn't get burnt out watching my kids. I don't know how I'd cope without her. I don't know how she does it as it is. I couldn't I know that.

I don't know how you mamas who take in other kids do it either ... you're truly superwomen! Supermamas!









Yeah, no way no how could I leave my little one for even one night, which is why I haven't gone full time yet. Need to nightwean first!
I've just found out that I'm not getting an extension from the ambulance for getting my Intravenous starts requirement even though I was on maternity leave for the entire reporting period (all of 2009), so I'm scrambling to get them done by the end of the month. Easiest way is to go to Whistler and poke all the healthy young men who've broken bones on the ski hill. So I'm booking a hotel for the weekend and bringing E with me, as well as my sister as babysitter. Nope, can't leave her. Just too long, even a weekend. Ah well, we'll make a fun weekend of it!


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## Everrgreen

to those feeling burnt out, I've been there and it sucks! I've been doing a lot better lately though, really enjoying parenting, and being more patient with Royce. And feeling good about myself, that makes such a difference!

Mal - I have no personal experience, but I really think that a 'regular' job would be less stressful and leave you with more to give at the end of the day than daycare does. With a regular job you get coffee breaks, and lunch break, and you get to leave the work behind you at the end of the day. I can definitely see how daycare would be physically and emotionally exhausting!


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## mckittre

Mal - I think it might well be easier to have an outside job than to have a pile of kids around. And if you think you want to make a change, I think it's better to go for it than to feel burnt out and keep wondering.

Katmai's just started to take a few more steps - maybe 5 at a time? I might have a toddler after all pretty soon here.

Still waiting on those first words though (or at least waiting for words I can recognize - who knows what he thinks he's saying)... Anyone else have a baby that's still not talking?

My husband and I just gave a presentation to around 40 people for an hour, and Katmai crawled around mostly quietly and mostly without getting into trouble the whole time! I was very impressed, and can only hope he'll do the same in future.


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 

Still waiting on those first words though (or at least waiting for words I can recognize - who knows what he thinks he's saying)... Anyone else have a baby that's still not talking?


We don't really have words yet either. She says Uh-oh. And sometimes she says Hi, but only to little babies and animals. It's funny, she gets up in their face and goes "Hiiiiiii!". But other than that, no talking. I can't wait until she finds her words, maybe then I can redirect the whining a little better.

My friend is coming over tonight to do a one year screening on Owyn (she works for our local Parents as Teachers too). So I plan to find out all I can from her about her job at the library. I'm not sure it would even pay enough since I would then have to start paying for daycare, but I think it's worth looking into.


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## LionTigerBear

Eliza threw up five times last night! And at least twice were right on me. I got only a couple teeny cat naps, almost no sleep at all.

Oh, but her latest word is her own name! It sounds like "I- YI- za" So cute and she repeats it a lot!

Right now she's crying in my arms, though, because she wants to nurse and I'm trying to give her tummy a break. Every time I've nursed her she throws up.


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## mamamillet

With DS I worked at a daycare until he was 3 yo. The first year we were together and then in different rooms after that. It is hard cause you get litlle down time without kids! I would not have traded those first two years though!
Willa only has a few words and a few signs but she understands everything!

Ds's soccer season has started and it has been a real challenge. He is on a competitive team as well as a rec team this year which means 3 nights of practice and games on both sat and sun! I have always enjoyed watching him play but it is very difficult keeping Willa entertained. Ughh!

I am loving toddlerhood! It is so fun to see her personality developing and the differences between her and her brother.


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## Thursday Girl

hiding things-check. i find all sorts of strange things in strange places. I found an apple in the washing machine, luckily it idn't get washed. LOL.

the zoo down the street is nice, i need to take the girls again soon. somehow my day while the older two are in school seems to trickle away quite quickly.

i can see how having a daycare would drain you. I helped when my oldest was in preschool and after a day of that i just wanted a break afterwords, even from my own girl. I discovered that just wasn't my calling.

we don't have much in the way of words, she has said some words but she hardly uses them again, nothing is consistent.


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## Mal85

Finally a beautiful day! Missouri living sucks in the way of weather during season changes. We get a warm, gorgeous day followed by a series of crappy days. Today is mid-60s, sunny, beautiful... they're calling for snow tomorrow and Saturday. So, we've been outside a lot. They kiddos just passed out from sheer exhaustion and I could use a nap myself.

I need more days like today to perk my mood up.


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## Everrgreen

Royce isn't walking either. He will walk holding my hand only. Although today he did take 2 steps completely on his own, but it was in a moment of excitement and he really had no idea he did it on his own. He is really starting to love walking though, and will come and grab my hand so we can walk together. I'm hoping this will lead to some motivation on his part to start walking on his own. He is just so darn cautious!

No words either. I have noticed a change in his babbling though, it sounds more like he's actually talking (or like he thinks he is) rather than just random babbles. Especially when he's upset with me (like, if I have to change his diaper), he will start to yell at me, and it really sounds like he's saying something so important - just in another language









I got Royce's bikeseat installed and we have been biking the last 2 days and it is SOOOO much FUN! I really recommend it to anyone who enjoys biking. Today we biked down by the water, then went to a park and took a break and played, and then biked around a bit and went to a different park. It was awesome! I'm looking forward to using it for transportation now that the weather is nicer.

LTB - I hope Eliza gets better soon. A tummy bug must be so hard on little ones


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 

I got Royce's bikeseat installed and we have been biking the last 2 days and it is SOOOO much FUN! I really recommend it to anyone who enjoys biking.

Hi *Gillian* ... What kind of helmet did you get for Royce? And does he keep it on? I'm taking our bikes in to get tuned up tomorrow, so we should be on the road in a few days. We bought a used trailer, and are also buying a used Wee Ride seat, so we have the option. Can't wait!


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## Everrgreen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starling&diesel* 
Hi *Gillian* ... What kind of helmet did you get for Royce? And does he keep it on? I'm taking our bikes in to get tuned up tomorrow, so we should be on the road in a few days. We bought a used trailer, and are also buying a used Wee Ride seat, so we have the option. Can't wait!


We got him a Louis Garneau Baby Boomer helmet in a size S/M (the smallest size), which is still a bit big so he wears a bandana underneath. When we were trying it on he immediately wanted to take it off, and got mad when I buckled it on. But, when we go for the ride, I just put it on last so we get moving right away and he forgets about it. I think he's getting used to it









And just for fun, here's a pic of him from our ride yesterday. He's sort of giving me a 'did you seriously stop the ride just to take my picture' look


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## Mal85

Well, I talked to my friend about the job last night. The hours are a little wonky, but that's kind of okay with me. Once or twice a week I'd go in later and stay later in the evening, but I can deal if it means I get a few hours with her in the morning. And she works every third Saturday, a full day. But when she works Saturday she gets the Friday before off, so that would be nice to have a day during the week at home with Owyn.

She also told me about a position opening up at another library as a branch manager. The hours are M, W, F, Sat. But the days are shorter and the Saturday isn't a full day. I like the thought of having Tuesdays and Thursdays off and being home earlier. Not sure if they'd consider me for a manager position if I've never worked in a library before. It doesn't require a degree though, and that's something I have, so maybe that would help. Not sure.

I didn't even have to ask my friend if she'd be willing to keep Owyn, she said "If you go to work, that means I get to watch Owyn right?" So that is so awesome, she'd be so great for Owyn plus the fact that Owyn already knows and adores her, so that helps put my mind at ease a lot.

This morning, I woke up and looked at my daughter and thought no way could I go to work. But as the day has gone one (and it has been one of our worst days of baby sitting to date for a myriad of reasons), I keep having a voice in my head saying Go get a damn job already! I'm gonna mull it over this weekend a little more and I may call the library Monday after I've had a day or two away from the daycare kids to think about it a little more.

I don't know how you working mamas do it. This is such a hard decision!


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
We got him a Louis Garneau Baby Boomer helmet in a size S/M (the smallest size), which is still a bit big so he wears a bandana underneath. When we were trying it on he immediately wanted to take it off, and got mad when I buckled it on. But, when we go for the ride, I just put it on last so we get moving right away and he forgets about it. I think he's getting used to it









And just for fun, here's a pic of him from our ride yesterday. He's sort of giving me a 'did you seriously stop the ride just to take my picture' look









Gillian, how does it feel to have him riding in front of you? Do you think it throws off your balance at all or make it any more difficult to turn? I would love to get Owyn a seat for the bike, DH and I used to ride bikes all the time and I'd love to get back to it. I've looked at another that goes on the handlebars, but I'd think it would be weird to turn like that.


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## LionTigerBear

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
LTB - I hope Eliza gets better soon. A tummy bug must be so hard on little ones









Thanks, I felt awful for her. It was the most sick she'd ever been, and the only time she's not been able to nurse on demand. Poor baby. She's better now, though, and I'm so relieved that I didn't get it! One of our sons got it, but not bad at all, and DH got it a little, but E got it the worst. Weird, in my previous experience it seemed the babies always got stomach bugs the easiest.

We are so excited to be out of the baby stages. We have been dreaming and scheming about all of the fun things we are going to be able to do now and in the next couple years as our kids get a little older! It's really exciting.


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## Vegan Princess

LTB: I'm excited for you guys getting to do things again! DH and I always talk about things we want to do in like 10 yrs from now when we are done having little bitty ones...we're still just getting started.

Gillian: Too cute! He looks so grown up in the helmet!

Cindy


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## LionTigerBear

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
We got him a Louis Garneau Baby Boomer helmet in a size S/M (the smallest size), which is still a bit big so he wears a bandana underneath. When we were trying it on he immediately wanted to take it off, and got mad when I buckled it on. But, when we go for the ride, I just put it on last so we get moving right away and he forgets about it. I think he's getting used to it









And just for fun, here's a pic of him from our ride yesterday. He's sort of giving me a 'did you seriously stop the ride just to take my picture' look









Gillian, that is so cute! I really miss biking. I used to bike everywhere. Whenever I have tried to think of how to go biking with three kids, though, I promptly give up, lol. I think we'd need a double bike trailer for the boys and a toddler seat for Eliza. Too expensive. My older son can barely bike and won't be able to keep up with us for a couple years yet. But again, that's something to look forward to in a couple of years!


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## Nillarilla

I am so going biking this weekend!!!! I have a double chariot so there is no excuses. I just have to tune up my bike and add the bike attachment to the chariot and away we go. That is if I can find Em's old helmet for D otherwise we will have to go find a toddler helmet for her first.
Gillian Royce looks absolutely adorable in his little helmet.

Going to work is hard but I am a better Mama for it. I really do well with some time away and something that's not about the kids. Something mentally and socially stimulating. I love kids but I can't work with kids. Just one of my limitations I guess. I just wish I didn't have to work 4 12hr shifts in a row. But we figured out that I can just take a leave of absence per month on one of the weekend days I work to try and catch up around here. I really thought about going part time but I don't want to lose a fully topped up maternity leave should we decide to go for another one. Or my vacation time or any of my other benefits. So I can take up to 20 LOA's a year without affecting my fulltime status and I am going to take them.

Delia's been napping from 12-3 in the afternoon. It's been fabulous!!!! No walking yet though she has taken a few steps here and there and will walk around all the furniture. She says "uh oh" when she drops things, mama, papa, bobo (brother) and that's about it consistently. Though is babbling with a purpose and yells at her brother in full babbly sentences.


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## Everrgreen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
Gillian, how does it feel to have him riding in front of you? Do you think it throws off your balance at all or make it any more difficult to turn? I would love to get Owyn a seat for the bike, DH and I used to ride bikes all the time and I'd love to get back to it. I've looked at another that goes on the handlebars, but I'd think it would be weird to turn like that.

When I first saw the bike all assembled with the seat I was nervous about it. And when I first put Royce in the seat it felt so heavy and awkward. But once I got going and got comfortable with it I was fine - just like riding a bike







(sorry I couldn't resist!) My knees have to be out a bit further than normal to avoid bumping the seat. But the seat doesn't impact turning or anything like that. Now that I've had a couple days of practice it feels completely normal









I haven't seen a seat that goes on the handlebars - I would definitely think that would be awkward! I really like having the seat on the front though, it feels safer having him right there between my arms and be able to see him. And I imagine as he gets older he'll point to things and want to talk. Right now he just sits quietly and takes it all in.


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## Mal85

Thanks for the info! I was looking at either the one you got or this one: http://www.amazon.com/iBert-Safe-T-F...9039714&sr=8-1

Good to get a firsthand account!


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## Thursday Girl

ltb, glad Eliza is feeling better. I so feel you on looking forward to the next things. I am glad we are done with the baby stuff and can fully move on, knowing that there will be no more. I am looking forward to going to work or school (birth assistant, midwifery school), and then just doing things w/ kids! adventures.

Mal, that is exciting about the job possibility. when i went to work when the first was a baby (11 months) it was pretty hard, but at the same time it was nice. I felt like working 5 days was TOO Much, like i just didn't see her enough. I'm not sure what i would work now, when i go back that is.

i should load up the bike trailer and put the two littles in. It would probably help my oldest to have someone fast to keep up with so she has less time to psyche herself out. She's got her training wheels off and does fine, but then she gets all freaked out and makes herself fall. We don't use the helmets in the trailer b/c it makes there heads push forward and sort of look down. if they were on a baby bike seat I'd have them use a helmet though.


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## Nillarilla

Gillian - I got the same brand of helmet at Costco today in pink. With the back cinched in with that spiderlock mechanism it fits perfectly!


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## mckittre

Well, right after I mentioned that Katmai wasn't talking yet, he said his first word today! "Moon"







I might have wished it was "mama" or "dada" (both sounds he uses non-specifically), but I'll take "moon". And if you count signs, he has almost a dozen words, I guess.


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## LionTigerBear

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 
Well, right after I mentioned that Katmai wasn't talking yet, he said his first word today! "Moon"







I might have wished it was "mama" or "dada" (both sounds he uses non-specifically), but I'll take "moon". And if you count signs, he has almost a dozen words, I guess.

Ah, congrats! What a great first word! He's original and a nature-lover!


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## newmothermary

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 
Well, right after I mentioned that Katmai wasn't talking yet, he said his first word today! "Moon"







I might have wished it was "mama" or "dada" (both sounds he uses non-specifically), but I'll take "moon". And if you count signs, he has almost a dozen words, I guess.

I agree!

Moon is a fabulous first word!!! Miles says "dada" and "ma" pretty non-specifically. He's pretty spot on with "dada" though.









Miles took a shower with dh and it was great! He went from liking baths to not liking baths to being ok again. Weird.

Here's Miles last week during our little "nature" walk lol. (we're in NYC)
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...y/DSC_2440.jpg


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## Everrgreen

Mal - no problem! I had looked at that one too, I thought it attached like the weeride, but from the photos it does look like it's closer to the handlebars. I decided against it though because it looked like it would be a pain to get his feet between the handlebars and the seat. And I like that the weeride has the little piece for him to put his hands on or just for protection if I have to stop suddenly.

I made the mistake of looking up the weeride on Amazon - it is only $50!!! I paid $150 for mine at a local bike store in town. Everything in the US is soooo much cheaper







And I'm pretty sure this seat is made in Canada which makes it even more confusing (and annoying!)

I also read the negative reviews about the weeride and thought I would comment on them here. If you think your LO is likely to fall asleep during bike rides the seat will not be comfortable for them (although I find it confusing that so many seem to have this issue, Royce is totally alert and looking around, I can't imagine him falling asleep while biking!). Also, you will not be able to straddle the bar while stopped, and will need your seat to be low enough to touch. Some of the reviewers found this completely unacceptable, but it doesn't bother me at all







Oh, and my bike is a fairly cheap off-the-rack type women's bike (I bought it at Dick's Sporting Goods when I lived in the US) and the seat attached with no problems (although I didn't do it, the store I bought it from assembled it for me, but they did so very quickly).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
Gillian - I got the same brand of helmet at Costco today in pink. With the back cinched in with that spiderlock mechanism it fits perfectly!

Hmmm... I don't think my helmet has a spiderlock mechanism. It's just a basic helmet with straps. It does fit fine with his bandana on though, so it's okay









Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmothermary* 
Here's Miles last week during our little "nature" walk lol. (we're in NYC)
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...y/DSC_2440.jpg

He is sooo cute!! And he looks so happy to be hiking along with Mama


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## Thursday Girl

Mary what a great picture of you two.

moon is a great first word. It is one of Josie's first words. she actually called it "apple" which is what she called nursies/nipple, so then we told her it was the moon so then she started calling it apple moon. we were camping w/ a bunch of hippies, so we decided her hippie name was Apple Moon, and if we had been the type to let the child name herself she would still be Apple Moon, which i really actually like, but my husband is a tad bit too conservative for that. LOL. (sorry moon just makes me think of that story everytime.)

I am tired and it is only 3. we(my dad and I) have been scraping the paint off the front of my house and have now primered half of the front. I wish i could just relax for a bit, but we have a birthday party to attend.


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## mckittre

Courtney, the "apple moon" story is very cute. I've been taking Katmai out to look at the moon every night now that he's shown such an interest - it's very cute to see him excitedly pointing at it and saying mmmoon mmmoon.

Actually, Katmai seems to have had a language explosion this last week, though most of it's signing. He's literally been learning a sign or two each day, which is amazing (all done and kitty today, mouse yesterday, bird the day before, etc...). I'm glad I stuck with the signing, it's so fun being able to communicate with him. Now I just need to hurry up and learn more myself!

He's also starting to walk a lot more - maybe 6 feet at a time occasionally. It's like he needed to be traveling to have this developmental spurt? I swear we give him plenty of stimulation at home, but it seems like his two biggest developmental spurts so far have come while traveling.

Biking sounds like so much fun. I've never taken Katmai, but have a helmet for him already, and plans to get a trailer for the summer when the snow is gone at home.


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## mamamillet

Oh My I have a climber! Anyone else? It is so challenging to keep her safe these days. Willa is also nursing less and less which makes my sad. Her brother nursed well past his 3rd b-day so I really hope she is just slowing and not quitting! Willa is also learning signs quickly...so exciting! We are finally getting better sleep...now that she has 16 teeth! I find myelf thinking of another but we are so NOT in a position right now and I really don't want 2 under three...oh well.


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## AKislandgirl

nak
did you guys read the article in this months mothering about the mayan massage? I checked more into it since I've had so many problems with infertility. Turns out there is a practitioner in Anchorage and they do the self care workshops! I'm so excited to try this! It gives me hope that I may not have to do all of the medications this time around (or maybe not so many rounds before they work!). Just had to share that!


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## Everrgreen

AK - Yeah, that was really interesting! It took me over a year to conceive Royce, so I would also be interested if I were going to try again. The one part I read was talking about how having an out of place uterus can cause very strong cramps during your period and when I was ttc I had the absolute worst cramps of my life. I can remember the one day thinking I was going to have to go to the hospital because I couldn't even move. Plus I would get nauseous







But, during all my periods since Royce was born I have had NO cramps. I'm not sure if maybe the pregnancy fixed whatever was wrong, or maybe my cycles are still anovulatory and so I'm not having 'real' periods. I'm curious about it though!

mamamillet - 16 teeth!! That's crazy! Royce has 7, but I think he's teething again. Definitely not a climber, although he does like going up stairs. Oh, and I guess he likes to climb all over me for cuddles









Royce is not getting into signing at all. He is starting to recognize them though, for ex. if I sign something (and say the word), he will smile for yes or shake his head no. And he does sign 'milk' for nursing, but only when he is nursing, not when he wants to nurse. I'm going to keep at it though, I've gotten into the habit of it now









In exciting news: ROYCE IS WALKING







He actually took a couple of quick steps last week (the 18th) at a park, but he was so excited about the park and he didn't even seem to realize what he had done. But today, his daddy was over for a visit and I was walking him towards him (he was holding my finger), and I slipped my hand away and he continued walking into his daddy's arms - probably 4-5 steps!!! SOOOOO exciting!! He wouldn't do it again, but still - we're getting there! Both times he did it he was distracted by something exciting, so I think it will be a while before he actually decides on his own to just walk somewhere.


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## AKislandgirl

I'm loving all the news on the walking/talking/signing front! Our babies are getting so big! We were out walking the dogs yesterday on one of the local trails. Fiona walked a good bit of it, stopping to touch the moss and collect treasures of sticks and spruce cones. I loved it! I've been waiting for this! She also decided to sit down in the mud while wearing her new wool skirtie when we went to the end of the road to collect the mail on Saturday. Great!









I have an extra kiddo here today. Fiona is trying hard to keep up with the big boys. Pretty cute to watch! Something tells me she is going to take a long nap today!


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## Mal85

Gillian, that's pretty much how Owyn started out too. She did it when she was wrapped up in excitement or distracted by something else. It didn't take her long to go from that to full on walking, maybe 3 or 4 weeks. It is exciting!

Just lately, Owyn is walking more like a pro. She's been walking since the holidays, but she's usually pretty clumsy and falls down if she tries going too fast or gets too excited, but lately she's been staying on her feet a lot better. And even walking backwards!

She is definitely turning into a climber. Just last week, she learned to climb onto the couch and is now trying to climb on every. single. thing. She climbs onto the patio furniture outside and up onto the dining room chairs. She tries climbing into our bed, but it's too high up for her so far. I bet it doesn't take her long though. Now, if only she'd work on climbing off of these things so we could avoid the falls!

Well, I turned in an application for a job. I'm not sure they'll consider me. It's as a branch manager at a library and I've never worked at a library before, really haven't even used a typical library since high school honestly. But, we'll see how it goes. I'm not sure when I should talk to the parents I baby sit for. I'm afraid of saying something too soon and losing them and then not getting the job or any job for a few months. I can't afford to lose the income, ya know. Maybe I should just tell them I'm looking so it doesn't come as a shock if I get something?? Ugh, not a conversation I'm looking forward to. I hate letting people down.


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## Nillarilla

Mal I know if I was one of your clients I would appreciate the heads up.

Cordelia's talking!!! She said "Bad dog! Lie down!" Clear as a bell yesterday and then when the dog didn't listen she pointed at the ground and repeated herself. It was hilarious!!! I wonder how many times a day we say that?

She's still not walking on her own but she walked all around the yard pushing a play lawnmower on Saturday.
She has made up her own sign for nurse which is nothing like the actual sign which I did teach her repeatedly. She kind of cups my boob with both her hands and looks up at me and wrinkles her nose. It's cute. She will sign for drink and more.


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## mckittre

Gillian: Congratulations on a little walker! And keep with the signing - it's very impressive how fast it goes when it finally "clicks". Katmai did nothing in return for a long time, then just a few, and now suddenly can sign at least a dozen words. Make sure to try and teach interesting signs too. Katmai will do "more" and "all done", but almost all of his signs are things he thinks are interesting (rather than things I think are useful) like animals and toys. He still hardly ever uses "milk". I think he doesn't want to talk to ask me for things, he wants to talk to tell me things, if that makes any sense.

Mal: Good luck on the job!

Nillarilla: That's quite an impressive sentence for a little one. Too bad the dog won't listen!

I'm lucky Katmai's not much of a climber yet. Particularly lucky since we're traveling and staying at many non-baby-proof houses.


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## LionTigerBear

Just got my first period postpartum. I am not a fan.  I feel nauseous, tired, crampy.

Now I really need to buckle down, get a check-up, and set a date to get my tubes tied. Time flies.

I'm a little worried about getting my tubes tied, since there can be some serious side effects for some women, but more worried about getting pregnant again-- because of how hard each of my pregnancies and postpartums has been. Oh, and back labor. The idea of getting pregnant again literally traumatizes me-- adrenaline reaction, throwing up, feel hysterical, etc. So tubes tied is better.

Anyone had their tubes tide? Probably not yet, huh? Sigh.


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## Vegan Princess

LTB: My best friend and my mom had their tubes tied. Neither made it sound like it was a big deal to me. My mom had it done right after she had me (even though it was a vaginal birth) and was home in, taking care of 3 kids right after. But if it freaks you out so much, couldn't DH step up and get snipped instead? It's the least he could do after you went through so much with your pregnancies, etc.

Gillian: Yay for the walking!!! It took about 3 weeks from Makenna's tentative steps to totally walking. She's getting so fast now - DH wants to slow her down. LOL.

Nothing big to report here. Makenna is fully walking and so cute. I'm excited to be able to take her to toddler activities and now we can really enjoy the parks. My mom will be here this weekend and I'm so excited for her to see how much she has changed since early February!

Cindy


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## LionTigerBear

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
LTB: My best friend and my mom had their tubes tied. Neither made it sound like it was a big deal to me. My mom had it done right after she had me (even though it was a vaginal birth) and was home in, taking care of 3 kids right after. But if it freaks you out so much, couldn't DH step up and get snipped instead? It's the least he could do after you went through so much with your pregnancies, etc.

The thing is, in the very unlikely but small chance that DH should remarry (should I die, or should we divorce), he really might want to have more kids. I'm the one who is definitely done. Which is fine with him, if I want to be definitely done that's fine with him and he can live with that. But with a different partner it might be a different story. He is only 26 and he's just not ready to say "definitely no more kids no matter what happens" yet. And I support that.

Thanks for mentioning your best friend and your mom. I know it's only anecdotal but it still makes me feel better.


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## justKate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 
Gillian: Congratulations on a little walker! And keep with the signing - it's very impressive how fast it goes when it finally "clicks". Katmai did nothing in return for a long time, then just a few, and now suddenly can sign at least a dozen words. Make sure to try and teach interesting signs too. Katmai will do "more" and "all done", but almost all of his signs are things he thinks are interesting (rather than things I think are useful) like animals and toys. He still hardly ever uses "milk". I think he doesn't want to talk to ask me for things, he wants to talk to tell me things, if that makes any sense.


Sounds like our LOs are on the same page. Aubrey doesn't say much--just mama, clearly, and baba (dada) and boo not so clearly. But she's had a signing explosion in the last week. Yesterday she sat in her high chair and signed "more" and "eat" in succession. I nearly peed my pants and squealed I was so excited. So now we have ASL: "more," "eat/food," "milk" (boobies), and "up", plus our own made-up signs for ceiling fan and all done. Progress, right?!


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## Thursday Girl

all this signing talk makes me wish i had taught her to sign. she signs up and she does the nurse sign, but it means "you who i am looking at hold me now". LOL. It turns out she talks more then i thought. at least she was to my friend Jen. BUT then when we were at my house she would say look in the direction of the sandbox, i'd ask "do you want to play ing the sandbox with the kids?" her eyes would say yes and then I'd say "okay let's go to the sandbox." so she isn't talking a lot b/c i do the talking for her.

I also have a climber. we take down the ladder to the girls bunk bed every morning. at the playground she climbs things she really shouldn't. I keep wantiing to take a video of it, but there is no way i won't be right behind her as she climbs it just in case.

our friday morning breakfast club is on it's 2nd week and was great last week.

LTB my mom got her tubes tied after she had my twin sister and i (which was a vaginal birth) she seems okay.

good luck on the library job mal!


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## Mal85

I didn't get an interview.







I got in the game too late, they already had about 15 interviews lined up. They said I would be in the second round of interviews if they didn't find someone, but I think that's unlikely. I think I'll just hold off for my friend's job since I know she's quitting when she has the baby.

Sounds like I'm going do to keeping one kid though in the near future. I talked to my SIL about the daycare situation and since I've just lost the 2 y/o I was keeping, I told I would likely be looking for a job in the near future, so she's pulling my nephews out pretty soon. My mom thinks I should be mad at her since she didn't even wait for me to get an interview somehwere, but I figure it's her prerogative and I knew that was a risk when I told her about the job situation.

Plus, I have to say I'm a little relieved. My nephews have been a handful, at best, and with it being family I've always bit my tongue a little when it comes to talking about the boys. I don't like walking on eggshells around her, so it's probably better this way. Plus, it'll give me a breather for a little while before (hopefully) going back to work. The one year old I watch is great and she and DD get along so great. I'll have to plan some really fun things while it's just the 3 of us.

Is there some kind of 12 month sleep regression no one told me about? She was laying down and sleeping 4-6 hours in her crib for a long time, but now we do good to get 2 hours out of her. I can nurse her back to sleep and get her back in the crib, but it only lasts 45 minutes or so. And in our bed, she is SUPER squirmy, doesn't want to be touched, rarely wants to nurse. We've tried putting her back in the crib since all she does is try to get away from us, but no luck. I don't know what to do with her!


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## AKislandgirl

bummer about the job Mal. I'm sorry that it didn't work out. It will be nice for you to have less kids I"m sure. I know that where I live its hard to find child care so I do understand why your sil is looking now, especially with 2 kids. Even though it can be hard on the budget I'm sure it will be nice to have a little less chaos before you start working out of the house.

Fiona is just starting into the climbing mode. Sheesh, its hard on her Mama!

i sometimes babysit my Dr's son. He was here with me this week so i showed her the Mothering article about Mayan Massage. She took it home with her and made copies for every Dr in her clinic! She's pretty excited about it and says that it certainly can't hurt and thinks it would be a really great option for me (and others in my fertility situation). I'm just feeling really hopeful that things won't have to be so hard this next time. I can't wait to get up to Anchorage for an appointment!


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## LionTigerBear

I'm sorry, Mal.

I am having a hard time getting Eliza to sleep lately, too. It seems to be the teething, poor sweetie.


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## starling&diesel

Esmé went pee in her potty today!









We brought it out a few days ago and she's been checking it out and sitting on it when we use the toilet beside her, and today I sat her on it nakey bum and gave her the cue and she went pee! Wow. She knows what pee and poo are, and tells us when she's pooping, so I guess this isn't too much of a stretch, but I thought it'd be way longer before she went in the potty. We'd been applying some EC principle in a super low key way ... but I guess they work!

And ... AND ... (drumroll please) ... she FINALLY got her first tooth! At nearly 14 months! Insane! So now I'm dealing with fresh, sharp little teeth pressing on my boob. Not biting, exactly, just pressing. Does that get better?

And what do you do if/when they bite? Tips? Advice? She has her two top front teeth now. Hasn't chomped down yet, thank god.

We booked tickets to go to Costa Rica in May ... we'll be visiting my auntie and uncle down there for a couple of weeks.

*Mal* ... bummer about the interview. And good news that you won't need to walk on eggshells around your sis anymore. That had to be tough!

*Sleep* ... is actually getting better around here. I think she only asked to nurse once last night, if that. I've been letting her wake up to the point where she asks to nurse, and that doesn't happen as much. I was giving it to her every time she cried, but it seems that she has a wee cry (10 secs or so) and then goes back to sleep. Works especially well if I sleep with my back to her or keep her 'num-nums' covered.

*Signing* ... Esmé is not a signer at all. She's a talker though, so I don't mind. I was so excited to teach my baby to sign (being that I was a professional ASL interpreter way back when) and she has absolutely no interest in it whatsoever.

*LTB* ... Are you still nursing? If so, does your milk supply go up and down with your cycle? My endocrinologist put me on pills that stimulate a cycle, so I've had one so far, and not sure about the impact on my supply (which is low to begin with but seems to satisfy DD now that she's on solids.)

*Climbing* ... Esmé isn't much of a climber, except the stairs to the slide at the park. She's not very physical, actually, other that walking and running. And swimming. She's a little fish. She figured out how to blow bubbles the other day. And she loves leaping off the edge, so I'm trying to teach her to "wait" until she has my full attention before leaping off. She goes under all the time, which might make her a little too confident. Hmm.

*Biking* ... My bike is tuned up and ready to go. Just have to go get helmets for Esmé and I. We got an old wee-ride trailer off CL that's big enough for her and the dog. I have to work tomorrow, so I think our inaugural ride will be Sunday, to the swimming pool.


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## Mal85

Owyn's swing set is finally going up! The playhouse portion of it is up aside from the roof (we're waiting on some screws to come in for it). We spent all morning climbing the ladder and going down the slide. She loves it!! Can't wait to spend lots of time on it this summer!

A close friend of mine recently decided she's going to be doing a homebirth. I'm super excited for her! She's due in August and found a CNM that does homebirths (a rare find in our neck of the woods). She asked me if I would be willing to videotape/photograph the labor and birth. I'm so honored! Luckily, I've witnessed 6 births aside from my own experience, so I know what to expect. If any of you ladies have photography advice, please send it my way. I think I'm going to play with my dad's film SLR camera and practice all summer. Could be the budding of a new hobby for me!


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## Vegan Princess

Ok so Makenna is *officially* a toddler now. Over the past couple days she has started freaking out to be put down while we are out. She gets all squirmy while I try and hold her and shakes her head back and forth when I try and pick her up. I do not like the phase at all! It makes going anywhere with her significantly harder. My mom is in town and we went to lunch and she was about to throw a fit if I didn't let her wander the restaurant. We had to skip dessert and my mom had to take her out while I waited for the check. Then in Blockbuster, I let her walk while we looked at movies but she kept pulling everything off the shelves. It's still super cute to see her walking around and mostly she's not into too much yet...but this is definitely unchartered territory...and I can see why everyone says it's more work!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starling&diesel* 
And ... AND ... (drumroll please) ... she FINALLY got her first tooth! At nearly 14 months! Insane! So now I'm dealing with fresh, sharp little teeth pressing on my boob. Not biting, exactly, just pressing. Does that get better?

And what do you do if/when they bite? Tips? Advice? She has her two top front teeth now. Hasn't chomped down yet, thank god.

That happened to me too when Royce first got teeth. It got better within a couple of weeks. Although I still often have little teethmarks after he's nursed, but it doesn't hurt (I don't even notice anything different while he's nursing). As for biting, I have always just unlatched and sayed 'no, you don't bite mama' and ended nursing time. Usually he only bites if he's in that overtired/overstimulated frenzy so I will calm him down first and then nurse.

Mal - I'm sorry the job didn't work out







I'm sure something will come up that will be the right fit for you!
And, I've also been asked to attend a birth, for support, but I'm going to bring my camera and do pictures for them. I have a really good camera, so it does all the work. But I think I'm a pretty good photo taker. And I know the pictures that I love from my birth/what I wish I had so that will help make sure I capture the right moments for them.

Cindy - I've been having more 'toddler' experiences too. It's kind of exciting (and yes, a little annoying







) Luckily distractrion works perfectly for him!


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
Ok so Makenna is *officially* a toddler now. Over the past couple days she has started freaking out to be put down while we are out. She gets all squirmy while I try and hold her and shakes her head back and forth when I try and pick her up. I do not like the phase at all! It makes going anywhere with her significantly harder. My mom is in town and we went to lunch and she was about to throw a fit if I didn't let her wander the restaurant. We had to skip dessert and my mom had to take her out while I waited for the check. Then in Blockbuster, I let her walk while we looked at movies but she kept pulling everything off the shelves. It's still super cute to see her walking around and mostly she's not into too much yet...but this is definitely unchartered territory...and I can see why everyone says it's more work!

Cindy

Our Ergo was always my friend, but now it is my dear, dear friend. I put Esmé in it when we go out and keep her in it, which works well. Oh, and I have to put her in it BEFORE i open the front door, otherwise she wants to go out there and climb up and down the stairs and not head for wherever we're supposed to be headed.

We went on the bus the other day and it was a longish ride so I took her out ... BAD IDEA! While she had a meltdown about not being able to walk up and down the bus, I got off nowhere near our stop, and put her back in and got on the next bus. Right, so now she only gets let down if she can frolic freely.

(And on a related note, I wish strangers would stop 'helping' me put DD in a back carry! We have a system! It works, even if it looks a little perilous!)


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
That happened to me too when Royce first got teeth. It got better within a couple of weeks. Although I still often have little teethmarks after he's nursed, but it doesn't hurt (I don't even notice anything different while he's nursing). As for biting, I have always just unlatched and sayed 'no, you don't bite mama' and ended nursing time. Usually he only bites if he's in that overtired/overstimulated frenzy so I will calm him down first and then nurse.


Thanks for the advice about calming babe down first. That's the same thing that happens when Esmé hits ... she's always over-excited/stimulated. I'll watch out for that.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: I have noticed she has yet to have a meltdown about getting down while she's in the ergo - so I guess I'll be using it even more! Thanks for the tips!

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

junes always wants down. she wants to walk everywhere, and can walk for blocks and blocks. Today we went to busch gardens and wanted down, we didn't put her down right then and my dad's new girlfriend said she was being selfish. WTH? yeah a 14 month old being selfish.







more like the adults being selfish b/c we had an agenda and she wasn't getting a say.

*Mal* sorry about the job

*starling* I pop her off and say "NO, that hurts mommy, we don't bite." and then i pop her off fo r a minute, if she wants back on after that she can, but if she bites again, i repeat it then put her down and walk away.

so we got rid of tv and subscribed to netflix, do you all have some movie recs?

oh and *bikes* pulled our trailer out (it's been almost 2 years since we used it. yikes! ) and the straps holding the seat up broke. so I need a new seat, and don't know when that could happen. plus i went to look at target and they didnd't have any, the employee i asked seemed like i was asking for a two headed alien.


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## mckittre

Mal: Sorry about the job. Hope you find something that works for you!

Katmai is walking more and more now (along with super fast crawling), but I think he's a little clingier than some of your babes. We've been driving around the country, so we're in new places all the time lately, and the first thing he wants to do when put down in a new spot is to climb on mama. I guess I'm lucky he's not more of a toddler! He does warm up to exploring after a little while. Unfortunately, setting up to give a talk/book reading is long enough that he's super happy to crawl everywhere by the time we get started and wants to play ball with the audience. He's the real star of the show, I think.

What do your babies do when you say a stern "no" for something? When I tell Katmai "no" and mean it, he cries! I'm not yelling, or even loud, just telling him that "no you can't eat that rock" or "no you can't bite mama's shoulder". I guess I'm glad he's listening, but I feel bad every time.

Starling: As for signing vs. talking - I think they just do whatever's easier. I notice that Katmai doesn't even try to copy my signs for the few words he can say (moon, moo, mama, dada). But for nearly every other word I teach him he finds the sign easier and will try that instead of even attempting to speak it. So I suspect it's rare that a kid will do lots of both.

Katmai and I are both having a great time with the signing, but I'm not sure how practical it really is, given that at least a third of his vocabulary is animals.







(dog, cat, bear, mouse, bird, fish, whale, pig...) I spend a lot of my day saying things like "yes Katmai, that IS a dog. I see the dog running."


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## Thursday Girl

Junie used to cry when i told her no.

she is also clingy sometimes, it depends on her mood, although she is definitely my shy kid.

lol and the repeated sentences.


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## starling&diesel

*mckittre* ... we try really, really hard not to use 'no' and instead put a positive spin on things. ie. "Rocks stay on the ground!" or "Danger! The stove is hot!" or "Sit down before you hurtle yourself down that big slide!" but Esmé still often cries. I think it's the tone. I also make a harsh "Ahh" sound when I want her to stop whatever she's doing, and that makes her cry too, but it's very effective. ie. "Ahh! Bring me the cigarette butt instead of putting it in your mouth, thank you!" (She is always finding the grossest things on the ground!) I think they're crying because we've interrupted their plans!

As for clingy ... Esmé is sooo clingy. She's super shy. I watch a lot of the kids her age at the park exploring and interacting with each other, and she's mostly parked on the boob, watching from her safe, warm perch.

Bummer about the bike trailer, *Thursday*. How about Craigslist? We got ours off a local parent listserve for $60.


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## Mal85

Owyn certainly doesn't cry if I tell her to stop doing something. In fact, she's very determined. If I tell her to stop climbing on the dining room table, she grin at me and try to climb even faster before I can get to her to get her down. The one year old I baby sit, is the opposite though. She has a meltdown anytime I tell her no. Difference in personalities, I guess.

I wouldn't describe Owyn as shy, but she definitely has her clingy moments. Like when I try to eat or go to the bathroom. Those are the moments she needs mama right. now. Evenings at home are difficult. I'm trying to get the house cleaned up from the daycare kids and prepare the kitchen for the next day. By the time I sit down to eat dinner, she's almost ready for bed and daddy just won't do. She'll want up and want back down a million times. She'll want a bite but spit it back out. She'll try to climb up the chairs, but often falls because she's tired and clumsy. It's always better when we get out of the house in the evening. She's much happier getting out and about.

Anyone doing anything for Easter? We do the typical Easter basket thing. This year, she's getting swimming supplies (a suit, a life jacket for the lake, water shoes). DH is taking her to the local Easter egg hunt this weekend. I hope she likes it!


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## LionTigerBear

Starling, Eliza's little teeth feel a bit sharp but we haven't had imprints or anything. She has bit me a couple times.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starling&diesel* 
*LTB* ... Are you still nursing? If so, does your milk supply go up and down with your cycle? My endocrinologist put me on pills that stimulate a cycle, so I've had one so far, and not sure about the impact on my supply (which is low to begin with but seems to satisfy DD now that she's on solids.)

Hmmm, my supply didn't seem to have been affected. I will pay more attention next time. My breasts are shrinking (deflating?) though, yippee skippy.  I am really going to miss breastfeeding when it's over. Last baby and all that, and I've been breastfeeding for over 5 and a half years now.

We love our Ergo, too! Eliza has started protesting getting in lately, but she settles down once she's in there. She'd rather walk, though. If I'm putting her in the Ergo, it's usually because I need her out of the way so I can do laundry or cook or something.


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## LionTigerBear

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starling&diesel* 
*mckittre* ... we try really, really hard not to use 'no' and instead put a positive spin on things. ie. "Rocks stay on the ground!" or "Danger! The stove is hot!" or "Sit down before you hurtle yourself down that big slide!" but Esmé still often cries. I think it's the tone. I also make a harsh "Ahh" sound when I want her to stop whatever she's doing, and that makes her cry too, but it's very effective. ie. "Ahh! Bring me the cigarette butt instead of putting it in your mouth, thank you!" (She is always finding the grossest things on the ground!) I think they're crying because we've interrupted their plans!


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
Owyn certainly doesn't cry if I tell her to stop doing something. In fact, she's very determined. If I tell her to stop climbing on the dining room table, she grin at me and try to climb even faster before I can get to her to get her down. The one year old I baby sit, is the opposite though. She has a meltdown anytime I tell her no. Difference in personalities, I guess.

We tell Eliza "no no no" and also just, "Eliiiiza," in a warning voice with a little look. And "stop". I guess I say "stop" more than I thought I did because now Eliza tells me, "stop!" Sounds like "'top!" Sassy girl. She's definitely assertive and opinionated, wonder where she gets that from.











starling&diesel;15236338 said:


> As for clingy ... Esmé is sooo clingy. She's super shy. I watch a lot of the kids her age at the park exploring and interacting with each other, and she's mostly parked on the boob, watching from her safe, warm perch.
> 
> Aw, that is soooo cute!!!
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mal85*
> Anyone doing anything for Easter? We do the typical Easter basket thing. This year, she's getting swimming supplies (a suit, a life jacket for the lake, water shoes). DH is taking her to the local Easter egg hunt this weekend. I hope she likes it!
> 
> We are doing baskets for each of the three kids. I raided the dollar section at Target for little stickers and toys and things and we'll throw a couple mini chocolate eggs. Then we're going to meet up with some other young families from church for a casual potluck breakfast and Easter egg hunt. The kids can get all dressed up in their cute spring-y outfits. Then back home to watch General Conference on TV (an LDS April tradition). We might stop by and see DH's parents later in the day.


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## Vegan Princess

Makenna doesn't respond to "no" in the typical way either (Mal - glad to know I'm not alone!). She usually laughs in my face and does whatever she isn't supposed to with extra gusto after we tell her no! Be it hitting the cat, hitting mom, whatever. I think I'm in for it! Thankfully I haven't had to say it too much yet but I can see the frequency will need to increase with her being more independant and mobile. I do try to rephrase things so I'm not just saying no though - like Starling does.

As for signs and talking. There are some words Makenna does both for...like cheese and milk and dog and cat. She will do both at the same time or sometimes use one or the other. She hasn't picked up too many new signs lately...not sure who's fault that is. Probably mine. But she is saying more and more each day.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

I haven't bought anything for Royce for Easter, we will be spending the weekend with my Mom and that side of the family. I wanted to put together a basket for Royce but I just can't think of anything for it (that he actually needs rather than just stuff). Maybe I'll find something this week.

As for 'No'. Royce will sometimes listen, but it depends on his mood. And it depends on how serious it is (and therefore how serious I am with my 'NO'). Sometimes he just laughs and keeps going other times he will start to cry (and sometimes it's a fake cry for just a second before he finds something else to get into







). He has recently learned to shake his head for no which is really handy! I am also trying to rephrase things so I'm not saying 'no' all the time









We have no signing or talking here! He points to things and can communicate his needs for the most part. But I wish he would start to sign!

Royce can definitely be clingy. He likes to be held and carried. At playgroup he stays by me for quite a while before he will venture off and then he will have to check back in with me all the time. But he isn't really shy, he loves to smile at people and meet new people - just all from the safety of my arms


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## justKate

We're sort of using signing as a bridge to talking, I think. Aubs doesn't say much, so it's either read her mind or wait for her to have a meltdown. So "food" and "more" and "boobies" and "up" have become a way for us to teach her that she can _show_ us what she wants instead of losing it. Talking would be much better though!

ETA: easter basket will have new spoons it. That's all that I've gotten so far.


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## AKislandgirl

yes, we've dealt with biting here though we seem to be over it for now. I very firmly said no biting, put her down and walked away. One day I was so frustrated that I cried. She hasn't bit since then. DH pointed out how sad she made me and she came up to give me hugs and kisses. So far so good since then though I'm still a bit on guard since then. It seems to come with intense teething and she has her canines coming soon so we'll see how it goes.

Fiona cries with corrections and "no" also. It's like her heart is broken when we tell her she can't play with the outlet. Poor girl. I too try to rephrase to the positive as much as possible.

She wants to walk around a lot. I tried to take her to church yesterday. She spent the entire mass trying to run up to the alter. Not much praying happening for me so I just left. We are having fun tromping around the yard and "hiking" on the trails. She starts out walking and then ends up in the ergo. We are loving that!

We are doing a pretty good mix of signing and talking. She's starting to put words together like more turkey and nu-nu please. Sometimes its a sign and a word or just words.

Her Easter basket will have a few egg shakers, a board book about spring, and a wooden cell phone.


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## starling&diesel

*easter baskets* ... I'm hoping to find some play silks (if not, then I'll hit the thrift store for some old scarves, which she loves). And maybe I'll put my old bunny dish in there from when I was a babe. It's at my mom's. We're having dinner at our house, so that should be fun for her.


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## Mal85

*starling* You can check this site out. http://www.dharmatrading.com/
You can buy undyed silks for really cheap and find all kinds of ways to dye them online. A friend of mine dyed some for us with Kool-Aid and they came out gorgeous. May not be able to do it by Easter, but could be a fun project in the future.


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## Thursday Girl

easter baskets- spring baskets anyways. My older girls are getting chocolate bunnies and peeps and malt eggs, Junes is just getting a small chcolate bunny.
Then i need/want to get them each a small toy. There isn't time to ship what i wanted to get them, but dh thinks we shouldn't celebrate spring b/c it's a hallmark holiday so he was dragging his feet on getting the money to me. which i am annoyed about b/c i wanted to expose Christmas and he wouldn't let me. I plan on heading to the craft store and getting the oldest a crochet book w/ needles, the 4 year old an easy sewing book and supplies, and for the baby?? I have no freaking clue.

so Junie has decided sheis big enough to climb the ladder that curves at the playground. I am going to bring a friend to video it for me. it's insane. fearless kids are exhausting and I have 3 of them.

for those of you w/ kids that laugh at no, that is my oldest, have fun w/ it. I just remind myself that these personality traits while hard to parent will serve them well as adults. Therefor you don't want to crush the behavior just help them learn to work w/ it and w/ other people


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thursday Girl* 
for those of you w/ kids that laugh at no, that is my oldest, have fun w/ it. I just remind myself that these personality traits while hard to parent will serve them well as adults. Therefor you don't want to crush the behavior just help them learn to work w/ it and w/ other people

This is great and so true! Thanks!

So Starling... can you share a 101 of what you are doing with EC/potty learning. I just don't know where to begin but would love to get a potty, introduce it, etc...


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
This is great and so true! Thanks!

So Starling... can you share a 101 of what you are doing with EC/potty learning. I just don't know where to begin but would love to get a potty, introduce it, etc...

We're super low key about it ... before we took the potty out, we would let her know when she was peeing, or pooping whenever we 'caught' her at it (whenever she was nakey bum for pee, or when she was obviously pooping) and gave her words for it. (We also do a 'cue' for pee ... kind of a "Sssss" sound.)
After a while, she started to tell us when she was doing either. Poop, fairly consistently, pee only when she was nakey bum.
So then we took out the potty and placed it in front of the loo and would model for her. That might not suit everyone, but it works for us.
The first day, she put the potty on her head, stuck her foot in it, tucked her socks in there, all of which I ignored. When she sat on it, I made a big deal of it.
Then at diaper changes, I'd ask if she wanted to go potty. She'd sit on it, but not for long, so we introduced books.
Now she sits for a few minutes while we read a story book, and I invite her to pee or poo, and sometimes she does and sometimes she doesn't.
About fifty-fifty right now.
I'd like to put her in training pants when we're home, but I don't know where to get little ones. I don't want to let her go nakey bum all the time being that we do have some carpet.
We're in NO hurry whatsoever, but it's nice to get started. I figure we'll be in diapers for a looooong while still.

*For those of you who CD* ... we're going to Costa Rica for two weeks in May. Have any of you travelled with CD? We'll be staying at my Auntie and Uncles and they have laundry, but we will be doing a few overnights away while we're there. Not sure if we should do CD while we're away or go 'sposie.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: 2 weeks in costa rica? Awesome! I have only ever done sposies when traveling. Mostly it's a space issue. You have to haul so much stuff for a baby as it is, I couldn't imagine bringing my whole stash. Plus it ends up being nice to have a break from the extra laundry. You may consider just bringing some diapers for a night since those stay on the longest. That is what my SIL does.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks for that info Starling! I'm thinking of getting al little potty now. Trying to decide between the big and little versions of the baby bjorn. I'm guessing if you searched around on hyena cart you could find some small trainers. Also if you post on diaper swappers you could probably get a lot of suggestions for WAHM trainers.

As for traveling with diapers. I've done it. While we were camping I used sposies and hated them but have used our cloth for trips with handy laundry. It can be a bit bulky in the carryon for sure though. Now that we are out of the runny poop phase the sposies might not be so bad but when we used them before they didn't hold a single poop. I would hate to deal with that on a plane. For me its worth it to travel with cloth.


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## Mal85

We've always used sposies when we travel. I wouldn't mind the space issue or washing on vacation, but I feel weird putting diapers in someone else's washing machine. I'd ask the people you're staying with how they feel about it. Some people are squicked out by it.

We're going to a weekend long camping music festival over Memorial Day weekend. Camping, sposies seems like the obvious choice (no place to wash them). But it's a place where people are big on recycling and being friendly to our environment so I feel like we should do something more friendly than regular sposies. I'm trying to find something that is biodegradable for that trip.

Owyn went pee on the potty for the first time yesterday! She woke up dry so I went for it. I put her on the potty and turned on the sink (to stimulate that need to pee). And she went!! I sat her on it again this morning, but she was wet when she woke up so I don't think she needed to go. I think I'm going to buy a potty and start putting her on it at diaper change time. I'm not looking for any huge steps, but it'd be a good start. I went to a talk on EC one time and a lot of mamas said they started at one year because they noticed their babies were on a more regular schedule. If we could at least get rid of poopy diapers, that would be awesome!


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## starling&diesel

Go Owyn!









Thanks for the opinions on travelling with cloth. We'd probably bring Seventh Generations sposies from home, so the space in the suitcase is the same. Her poops are nice and solid, so not too messy. Still debating it.
Good point to ask the rellies if they'd mind the laundry! Thanks!


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## Nillarilla

I've travelled with both cloth and sposies and g diapers. If I have handy access to a laundry machine I go with the cloth every time. It's easier for me since it means no rash issues or blowouts or garbage. We are taking another trip to Banff this year. It's 10 days and there is laundry but it's not very easily accessible. I think I will just bring covers and the g diaper inserts. I just rinsed the covers in the sink at the hotel.

I've been bitten a few times if she's very eager or done. She always cries when I say ouch! gentle to Mama. She also always cries when I say No. It breaks her heart each and every time. Yesterday was deafening with both my son and Delia wailing at the top of their lungs. I had to get some ear plugs out.

I'm throwing a baby shower for my best friend on Easter Sunday. I want to throw the shower but didn't exactly want to do it on that day. Her mom called and said "I waited and nobody stepped up to the plate so I'm calling you now to see if you'll help me with the shower". Meaning that I should have planned it earlier.







I love my bf but not her family. I am working fulltime and the baby was in the hospital for a week with jaundice. So yeah there really hasn't been any time. But the next available weekend for me is May 8th. So I'm going to be very busy this weekend. I work Friday and Saturday so my dh has to do most of the cleaning, house and yard prep. I am freezing cupcakes today and will ice them on Sunday. I have to go out tonight to get Easter bunny stuff for my kids so I will pick up plates and napkins and a table cloth and an It's a boy banner. I hate buying disposable stuff like that but it's a necessary I guess. I bought stuff to decorate onesies and I have lots of scrapbooking stuff so I thought everyone could decorate a page and write a little message. I don't want to do many games but I'm going to use some stuffed animals and have races to put cloth dipes on.


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## Everrgreen

I have travelled with cloth, but all the places I've travelled to I had access to a washer/dryer. And I've always travelled in my own vehicle, so no need to pack light!

We have been doing very very part time EC pretty much since birth. I don't worry about it when I travel, but at home I can catch almost all the poops. I don't do well at all at catching pees. Oh, I did actually catch a pee out in public once. We were out for the day and I went to change his diaper and it was dry, so I held him over the toilet and he peed! Very cool! I think I caught his first pee when he was about a week old, that was also very cool







We use the Ikea potty, I really recommend it.


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## Thursday Girl

*cd and travel* when we camp for a weekend we use cloth.
when we fly and stay at my IL's we use cloth while there (we asked if we could wash it at their house) but we use sposies on the plane.
when we fly to visit my sister we use sposies as she doesn't want us washing the dipes in her machine.
when we went on a road trip and only stayed in hotels we used sposies. I liek the g-siaper idea for that though.

we went to busch gardens today and saw a live sesame street performance. Junie LOVED the characters, afterwords we got to meet them. She was so so excited to say hello, especially to abby cadabby. She has never seen the show but we have read a few of the sesame street books to her. I want to read some more to her now. Maybe I'll start w/ elmo and prairie dawns "no more diapers" LOL. I have been thinking about introducing the potty, i like these EC tips.

oh and i wanted to share a climbing photo w/ you all. This happens often. I am almost to the point where I am just going to lay the chairs down.


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## AKislandgirl

Courtney, I love that picture! What a little dare devil you have. I'm so glad that Fiona isn't a climber. I remember that I'd go to my sisters place and all of the chairs would be on the table so my nephew couldn't climb them!

So it's looking like Fiona has a dairy allergy. At least we think that's what it is. She's had problems with constipation for several months now that we are pretty certain is connected to eating dairy so we backed off quite a bit on giving her anything. Now she has a rash on her face that has been there for nearly 3 weeks. I talked to our Dr yesterday (babysat for her actually) and she said its leaning toward the allergy. So starting today Fiona and I are both off of dairy for a few weeks to see how she does. We'll test it after that. I have soy milk in my coffee this morning...its just not cutting it! I'm a dairy lovin' Mama! AGH! I do hope that it is dairy though because then we'll know and it is fairly easy to eliminate from our diets. She said if the dairy is not it the next thing to try would be gluten. Yikes, that is in so many things! Anyone else dealing with allergies?


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## Vegan Princess

AKislandgirl: soy milk in coffee is blech! But soy creamer is yummy! Much thicker. There are also coconut milk creamers on the market. I like Trader Joe's soy creamer. I feel for you giving up the dairy. I used to be vegan until pregnancy and I have not been able to go back 100%.

Makenna has tooth #5 coming in - and is sooo clingy and not sleeping well. She just napped for only 20 minutes! Poor baby!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Courtney, such a cute pic. I find Owyn in the same places pretty frequently, looks like we both have daredevils! Owyn is just not afraid of anything and it takes several falls to learn her lesson. She learned the hard way a few times with stairs and is finally more cautious with them. She still won't scoot down on her bottom, but she will find something to hold onto so she can go down.

We haven't had any allergies here that I know of. She will occasionally break out with a flaming red diaper rash that leaves sores on her bottom (not yeast, but little blister type sores). It's very infrequent, but I'm trying to pay attention to what she eats that may be causing that... Not sure yet... I don't think I could live without dairy, so we've been very lucky on that front.

My MIL just showed up with two big shopping bags full of spring clothes she bought for Owyn! She overheard DH and I talking about how we needed to look at the budget because we don't have hardly any spring/summer clothes for her, so she picked up a bunch of things for her. How great is that?!


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## mckittre

I'm glad Katmai's not a climber yet. Of course, if he does find himself in a high place he doesn't know how to get down either. He is finally a toddler though! Walking more than crawling now.

More so than walking, he's working on using his hands, slowly perfecting his overhand throw.

We use gDiapers all the time, and they're pretty handy for traveling too. Haven't tried any potty stuff yet, but he does keep his diaper dry for much longer these days and I usually know when he's pooping, so maybe worth a try.

Katmai's still picking up a new sign every day or so, and a few words as well. It's amazing to see what a difference a few weeks makes. A month ago I worried he wouldn't ever talk or sign back.


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## AKislandgirl

We woke up buried in snow! Well about 6-7 inches at least. Happy Spring! Good Grief.









This morning we are heading to a playdate/coffee time at a friends house. I think that there might be 3-4 moms coming. You have no idea how much I've been looking forward to this! I certainly need to do it more often.

I found soy creamer! Still not loving it but much better then soy milk. Thanks for that tip Cindy! Easter is going to be challenging. I guess I'll just have to eat more bacon!


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## justKate

Anyone else still waiting for their first PP AF? I'm feeling sorta crampy today, and am wondering if AF will ever return. Aubs only nurses 3 times/day +/-, but who knows. It's officially been two years now....


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## AKislandgirl

no pp AF for me. I would not be surprised with my history to have to medically induce it when we decide to start TTC. I don't know for sure, we'll see. Fiona still nurses a lot though.


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## starling&diesel

Medically induced PP AF here ... not fun. Still nursing tonnes.

*Allergies* ... something that Esmé ate gave her a blazing red rash around her mouth. We figure it has to be an ingredient in a sauce. The meal included pork, zuchini, mushrooms, rice pasta, and spinach, all of which she's had, so it must be something in the sauce, which was wheat-free tamari, rice vinegar, sweet chili, and garlic (I think that's it). Will have to do some investigating.

*Potty learning* ... we're on hold, because Esmé has all of a sudden become nervous of the potty. Ah well! Not sure what happened. We were all being super low key about it. It's kind of funny to say, but I think she was scared of her poop. Back to making friends with the potty. Any suggestions?

*Naps* ... I think we're officially down to one. It's been about a week now of one after lunch nap after about six weeks of some days one, some days two.

*Soy creamer* ... I love Silk soy creamer. Yum!


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## AKislandgirl

Starling, Are you guys trying for another little one soon?! I know you've gone back and forth on that a little bit. Just wondering since you mentioned the medically induced AF. (you don't have to answer of course!) I've been really tempted to get things going here in the new future but I remember how exhausted and sick I was in the first trimester. I need to be done with daycare for sure before getting pregnant again! Just keeping up with Fiona will be challenging enough!

Allergies are really tricky. I know that we have been on this dairy free thing for only a couple of days but I haven't seen any changes yet. Something tells me its not going to be as cut and dry as just cutting out dairy. Her rash actually seems worse now. UGH! This is frustrating. If after two solid weeks of dairy free its still the same or worse I'll have to make an appt to see her Dr. (instead of just chatting with her when she picks up her son from my house!). Maybe bloodwork would reveal something faster then slowly picking one thing at a time to eliminate from our diet. I don't really know much about this though.


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## Vegan Princess

I am almost off my meds to make more milk and I think I got my fist PP AF on wedneday. Only lasted a day. It's light bc I have mirena iud. I tried to get my IUD removed yesterday but bc my last dr cut the strings really short, she couldn't get it out! So I have to go back in 2 weeks and she is going to try while the radiologist does a high res ultrasound...otherwise I have to be put under and they will dilate my cervix and get it. Ugh!! I just want it out and I'm never getting another one again!! The dr that cut the strings said she could get it out no problem but she isn't on my new insurance so I went to someone new who doesn't cut strings and doesn't know how to deal with this. I have a call into the first dr to see what she says about removal. I may pay out of pocket to have her do it if she'll give me a deal I can afford. So we'll start TTC a month or so after it's out - god willing that there are no problems with removal!!!

Glad the soy creamer makes the no dairy a little easier for you akislandgirl!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Sheesh Cindy! How frustrating! I hope everything goes smoothly though! How exciting to be this close to TTC! Who knows, you could join another February DDC!

My friend is in the middle of a custody battle and asked me to write a letter on her behalf to the judge. I'm so worried about saying it write and with enough emphasis! That's what I'll be working on this weekend. I told DH over and over again that I'm so happy that he is such a great dad. I can't imagine the feeling of possibly losing custody of my child. I feel awful for my friend. Her ex is a total loser who barely took care of their son when they were married so I'm not sure what he is thinking. Well I think he is thinking of money. Sad


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Starling, Are you guys trying for another little one soon?! I know you've gone back and forth on that a little bit. Just wondering since you mentioned the medically induced AF.

No plans to try for another one anytime soon. If you guys recall, we 'adopted' Esmé way back when she was an embryo, and that was because my reproductive system has never worked properly. As a result (looooomg story short), I have osteopenia and am always concerned about my endocrine function in general. I had a visit with the endo and he did a blood work up and we found that my endocrine levels were dangerously low, so he put me on HRT to kickstart my cycle again to level things out. As a result of that, we'd be 'ready' anytime to do another frozen embryo transfer and would just need to 'tweak' my lining with some additional prometrium. But like I said, we're not ready. I'm really enjoying Esmé as an one and only, and my partner is pretty solid on just having one due to our crazy work schedules and finances. Perhaps in another couple of years?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
I tried to get my IUD removed yesterday but bc my last dr cut the strings really short, she couldn't get it out!

Not needing birth control, I know nothing about IUDs, but good GRAVY, woman, that sounds horrible! I really hope you can get it all sorted out. I hope the original doc does it for free. She should!

And how's your supply holding up, *Cindy*? I've been off the meds for about five months now and everything seems to be holding steady, even with being back to work 2-3 days a week for 14 hours at a time. Lots of hand expressing! I kind of think I've got more now that I ever did, but that's probably because her demand is lower, what with being the little foodie enthusiast that she is. Are you planning to BF much longer?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
My friend is in the middle of a custody battle and asked me to write a letter on her behalf to the judge. I'm so worried about saying it write and with enough emphasis!

Do you have anyone that you could show it to to get feedback? Or, have you considered writing it WITH her, so that there's no misunderstanding about the points that she wants made clear? How very scary to be battling custody. My thoughts are with your friend ...


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## AKislandgirl

Happy Easter! We induced an early nap (aka stroller walk!) so Fiona will be in good spirits for an egg hunt and potluck lunch with friends at the beach. We'll be in snowsuits! She was excited to get her treasures this morning. Some egg shakers, a new book, and a wooden cell phone. I love how she holds her phone... up by her hear but more behind her head then anything. She says, hi, yeah, oh, baby babbles and giggles to whomever she is talking to. So darn cute!

I have a very rough version of the letter for my friend written. Once I get it more fine tuned both my mom and DH are going to proof it for me and make suggestions. I really hope that this helps. I've not been able to stop thinking about this all weekend. I do think that any judge in his right mind will make the call to keep him with his mom but always at the back of her mind is the "what if?" It will be so good for them once this is all over and they can work on getting back to their new normal.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: I'm still waiting to hear from the original dr but I do think I'll end up going back to her. I hope she at least does for cheap!! As for the nursing. I'm down to 30 mg of dpd/day and 2000 mg of shatavari. I think I'll be totally off the dom by the end of next week. My supply once had been 3 ounces per pumping but had dropped to 2 ounces before I even started weaning off the meds - who knows why. I had still been pumping before bed up until a week ago. I was down to pumping about an ounce when I stopped. So my supply has definitely dropped! I am still using the lactaid with almost every feed though so Makenna doesn't know the difference. And when I nurse bare I don't think she cares if there is milk or not. I am not sure how long I will nurse her. I have no plans to wean. I am currently reading "Adventurs in Tandem Nursing". I am all for trying to get her down to 1-2 nursings/day by the time another baby comes (a year from nowish?) and letting her nurse after the baby is done. I haven't found many low supply mommas who have tandemed but I did talk to one and she thought having the toddler nurse actually stimulated her supply, like pumping. We'll see. I'd prefer her to wean by then but I'm not sure it will happen.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Happy Easter! Owyn had a great time with her basket this morning. She immediately reached in, grabbed a jelly bean and popped it in her mouth! Jelly bean drool all over the place, lol! Today has been kind of a free for all with the candy and Easter treats, so she's been wired pretty much all day and is just now taking a nap.

I'm not sure how much longer Owyn will nurse. I had planned on beginning the stages of nightweaning right around now. I would like for her to be nightweaned before I get pregnant again. I don't think I could handle exhaustion from pregnancy and nursing throughout the night. But, she has more or less weaned herself during the day already. She only nurses before bed and once or twice during the night. I tried keeping another daytime nursing session in for a while, but she just fought me on it, so I stopped forcing it. If I nightwean her, that'll be it. No more nursing. I thought it would be the other way around. She'd nightwean, then down the road we'd wean during the day. She had other plans.

Anyone have one that sleeps through the night yet? When she's not teething, she sleeps in her crib roughly 4-5 hours, then gets in bed with us around 12:30-1:00. Then she'll nurse when she gets in bed with us and that'll hold her over until around 5:30-6 in the morning. I would love to cut out that one middle of the night session when we do decide to nightwean and have her in the crib until 5:30-6:00, but I don't really know how to go about doing that. We've tried in the past. I got up out of bed with her and put her back to sleep, but that only resulted in even more night wakings and one very exhausted little girl (and mama).


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## AKislandgirl

Fiona still nurses many times throughout the night so no help here! Any less then 3 times and I'm amazed! She still nurses every few hours during the day too. She's a boob girl!


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## Nillarilla

Akislandgirl I have been dealing with allergies since about Halloween. My son is allergic to soy and my dd to dairy and gluten. I have not cut the dairy or gluten from my diet but she only nurses about twice a day and in the am and before bed. I'm sure as a newborn that was the source of some of her issues. Coconut milk is awesome for baking and substituting. Be careful with the soy lots of people with dairy allergies also have an allergy to soy. I have found almond milk soy free but coconut milk is the only one I know is totally safe for both my kids. Plus it's a good fat. Gluten free is awful. I've made some good biscuits and cookies but the bread and pasta so far is yuck!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Makenna is in a crib too. Occasionally she will sleep 7-5 but that is rare. She is usually up around 2-3 then nurses back to sleep and DH sets her back in her crib where she stays until 5ish. She comes in bed to nurse lying down then and sometimes will be up for the day after or rarely goes back to sleep for a bit while still attached to the boob. She has been an early riser lately...it blows! The past week or 2 have been worse than normal though with night waking. I think a new tooth is on it's way in. So she has been up 3ish times/night...and won't go back down in her crib around 3 so has been coming in our bed for the rest of the night. If I don't nurse her, I have no idea how to get her back to sleep! DH can sometimes rock her to sleep but that doesn't work nearly as well as when she was littler. I honestly thought she'd be sleeping through the night by now. Now I am just hoping she will be by a year from now!

I am wondering though...how does one deal with being up so much all night with a new one and then having to be up at 6 for the day with a toddler? I think I stayed in bed from 9pm to 9 am when Makenna was new...just to get 5-6 hours of sleep. Any mommas of 2 or more have any thoughts? Exhaustion, I guess.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
Mal: I honestly thought she'd be sleeping through the night by now. Now I am just hoping she will be by a year from now!

I am wondering though...how does one deal with being up so much all night with a new one and then having to be up at 6 for the day with a toddler? I think I stayed in bed from 9pm to 9 am when Makenna was new...just to get 5-6 hours of sleep. Any mommas of 2 or more have any thoughts? Exhaustion, I guess.

Cindy

I thought we'd be sleeping better too! I aim for on wake up by 18 months and nursing/sleeping in the early AM hours. I just don't know how to get there! I think about how uncomfortable I was with sleeping during my pregnancy and having a toddler glued to my side all night...hmmm. Sounds tough.

When Fiona was a newborn we often didn't get out of bed till 10am! I think DH will have to become a larger part of the bedtime routine around here as one solution since sleeping in just won't happen.


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
Akislandgirl I have been dealing with allergies since about Halloween. My son is allergic to soy and my dd to dairy and gluten. I have not cut the dairy or gluten from my diet but she only nurses about twice a day and in the am and before bed. I'm sure as a newborn that was the source of some of her issues. Coconut milk is awesome for baking and substituting. Be careful with the soy lots of people with dairy allergies also have an allergy to soy. I have found almond milk soy free but coconut milk is the only one I know is totally safe for both my kids. Plus it's a good fat. Gluten free is awful. I've made some good biscuits and cookies but the bread and pasta so far is yuck!

I'm just praying its not gluten! I feel for you. How did you determine their allergies? We just found out that their is a 3 year wait to see the allergist that visits the island once a month!! 3 Years! It's flippin' ridiculous. If we do end up needing to see an allergist it will mean a trip to Anchorage for us.


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## starling&diesel

*allergies* ... for those of you dealing with gluten-free, I have a great all purpose flour recipe if you want to pm me. I've been gluten-free for about fifteen years now, after being diagnosed with celiac. It does get easier! And it's way better now than it was back then.

*sleeping* ... sleeping through the night is a lot of hooey. I think we sleep well, with Esmé stirring to nurse about three times a night. She doesn't fully wake, and neither do I, so it's not too bad. We do want to transition her to a toddler bed beside ours soon. As for dealing with a toddler and new babe, I CANNOT even imagine, which is why we won't be trying for a second any time soon. Although it would be nice to have the pregnancy part out of the way, being that I'm not gettin' any younger!


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## Vegan Princess

nak

The old dr got my iud out!! It was no problem for her. Phew!! Have to wait a month to start trying though. Eeeeck!!!!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Wow - lots of reading to do, I've been away for a few days!

I am a teensy bit envious of those of you getting ready to try again. Just a teensy bit though! I enjoy just having one and am looking forward to a larger spacing between babies (hopefully not too large!)

Cindy - glad you got the iud out with no issues! Sounds like a real pain!

As for sleeping - we still aren't sleeping through the night. Some nights he will only wake a couple of times, but that's rare. Usually it's 4-5 times I would guess. But he's still in the bed with me and it doesn't really wake me. I would like to limit it to 1-2 times. I just haven't figured out how to do that consistently. I'm glad to know that this is common. I was with my mom this past weekend and she mentioned buying me a crib so I'd having something to leave him in to CIO







He was up quite a bit the first night we were there (new place, new bed) and I was exhausted, so that's why she brought it up, but still!

Royce is starting to walk a lot more. Still prefers to crawl or hold my hand and walk, but he is choosing to walk on his initiative a lot more. And he's starting to climb a little bit (onto/off of the couch).


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## Nillarilla

We got my ds allergy tested but it didn't show anything. He still reacts though really badly with blotching skin, facial rash, emotional and sleep disturbance, increased mucous production and a sore stomach. So I believe it's probably an IgG reaction. Was scary for a while when we thought it might be anaphylactic but it turns out he just worked himself up so badly he was having a panic attack. Benadryl, Vit C and rescue remedy work well to dampen and sometimes stop the reaction.

Dd it's a blistering bleeding bum rash and either constipation or pure liquid poop. She also screams and her stomach goes rock hard. She will usually vomit the night of ingestion as well. Oh and sour burps will tip me off that she's about to start reacting to something. I took dairy out first and all the symptoms lessened by about 2 weeks then I took wheat out and within a week she was all clear of the rash and the constipation. It was so awful she would cry when she would poop.

I've found a couple flours I like that are gluten free. We eat a lot of millet, amaranth, quinoa, rice and meat and veggies and lentils and beans. Dd can't even have oatmeal. She can have butter in small amounts though which is good. The world just tastes better with butter.


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## Nillarilla

Forgot to mention dd is getting 4!!!! teeth at the same time right now. We are so not sleeping here.


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
nak

The old dr got my iud out!! It was no problem for her. Phew!! Have to wait a month to start trying though. Eeeeck!!!!

Cindy

I'm so glad that she got it out! One month from TTC! So exciting! Can't wait to hear good news!!!!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
We got my ds allergy tested but it didn't show anything. He still reacts though really badly with blotching skin, facial rash, emotional and sleep disturbance, increased mucous production and a sore stomach. So I believe it's probably an IgG reaction. Was scary for a while when we thought it might be anaphylactic but it turns out he just worked himself up so badly he was having a panic attack. Benadryl, Vit C and rescue remedy work well to dampen and sometimes stop the reaction.

Dd it's a blistering bleeding bum rash and either constipation or pure liquid poop. She also screams and her stomach goes rock hard. She will usually vomit the night of ingestion as well. Oh and sour burps will tip me off that she's about to start reacting to something. I took dairy out first and all the symptoms lessened by about 2 weeks then I took wheat out and within a week she was all clear of the rash and the constipation. It was so awful she would cry when she would poop.

I've found a couple flours I like that are gluten free. We eat a lot of millet, amaranth, quinoa, rice and meat and veggies and lentils and beans. Dd can't even have oatmeal. She can have butter in small amounts though which is good. The world just tastes better with butter.

Wow, so much to learn about in the allergy world. It sounds like you have figured out the triggers though. Right now I just don't know. Fiona and I have been off of dairy for a week but her rash seems worse. Her constipation issue is better though. We have had crying with pooping too and its awful. Also lots of straining with little result. Things seem better over the last few days though so I think we are on to something with the dairy. I think we'll stick with dairy free for a while and see if we get any improvement in her rash. Then maybe try the gluten route.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
Forgot to mention dd is getting 4!!!! teeth at the same time right now. We are so not sleeping here.

Right there with you Mama. Fiona's getting her 4 canines in and it is brutal. She rarely ever just cries but today has been a different story. She's been very hard to soothe. Poor babies and poor mamas! Will teething ever end?!


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
The old dr got my iud out!! It was no problem for her. Phew!! Have to wait a month to start trying though. Eeeeck!!!!

That's aweseome! Wonderful news, Cindy!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 

I've found a couple flours I like that are gluten free. We eat a lot of millet, amaranth, quinoa, rice and meat and veggies and lentils and beans. Dd can't even have oatmeal. She can have butter in small amounts though which is good. The world just tastes better with butter.

*AKislandgirl* wants my GF flour mix, and maybe you'd be interested too?
Here it is!

This is a great rice flour based recipe ... use 1:1 in most any recipe for great results. It's worth searching out the ingredients.

ALL PURPOSE GLUTEN-FREE FLOUR
2 1/2 C brown rice flour
2 C white rice flour
1/2 C corn starch
3/4 C potato starch
3/4 C tapioca flour or starch
3 tbs xanthan gum

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Poor babies and poor mamas! Will teething ever end?!

At least all of you are nearly finished! Esmé is still working on her first TWO!


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## Mal85

Owyn started getting teeth fairly early, just before 4 months old. She has 8 so far, 4 on top and 4 on bottom. But she is slllllooooowwww and steady about it. She'll get one, teethe for weeks, get another. Take a break, teethe for weeks, get one, teethe for weeks, get another. They seem to come in twos but a couple weeks apart, then we get a break for a month or so. She's been working on molars for weeks now and still hasn't had one break through. Luckily, she handles teething pretty well. We have a few restless nights right when one is coming in, other than that it's just a lot of drool and a little clinginess.

Did anyone catch the promo at Franklin Goose last week? It's an online natural baby store that had a promo going, offered $5 store credit for every product review you wrote. I talked to a few people who ended up with well over $100 in store credit. I wrote several reviews and should get $50-$60 out of it. It's taking them a long time to get through the reviews though, because they had so many and lots of their products are now on back order because all the people are using up their store credits. But they have tons of great products. I can't wait to get my credit, Owyn will be getting some new diapers! We're still transitioning our stash to strictly AIOs during the day (pockets at night), so I'll be adding to that.


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks for that recipe *Starling*!

*Mal*: I did reviews also but am still waiting on credits. I should get about $75 worth! I did my reviews at the end of the promotion (last 2 days) so it will probably be some time before I get my credits since they are so backed up. I'm still undecided as to what I'll get. Maybe some of the cute WAHM clothes.


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## justKate

Just have a minute but wanted to plug goat milk for those with allergy issues. Aubrey seemed to be reacting to cow's milk when we started it, so we switched to goat milk and that seems to be going well. She also doesn't tolerate soy. Oddly yogurt and cheese are okay--maybe they're more processed? I dunno.

Cindy, I'm jealous. I think the idea of a newborn is wonderful, but the idea of a newborn with _my_ toddler is terrifying. It terrifies me right in to celibacy.


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## Vegan Princess

Justkate: I hear ya! Now that the iud is out and this ttc thing is really about to begin I'm a lit bit freaking out. I so want another tiny baby but I feel really bad about the idea of taking away Makenna's special one on one time. And sometimes I just feel so tired and like I never get a break that I wonder how I will manage with two. But I suppose if I am already busy and tired and not getting break I might as well have more...at least I won't be having so much time on my hands that I feel like I need to find things to fill it with...it will be filled by caring for #2.

Makenna is SOOO into saying momma/mommy these days. She says it so adoringly and loves to point to me and say "momma" over and over or "my momma". She finally started calling DH dada instead of momma and says that a lot too. She is just so enamored with us...it's the cutest thing ever!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Thanks for that recipe *Starling*!

*Mal*: I did reviews also but am still waiting on credits. I should get about $75 worth! I did my reviews at the end of the promotion (last 2 days) so it will probably be some time before I get my credits since they are so backed up. I'm still undecided as to what I'll get. Maybe some of the cute WAHM clothes.

I finally started getting my credits. I have $45 so far. I did those reviews on Monday last week, so on March 29. I did a few more on the 31, the last day, so I'm still waiting on those to go through.


----------



## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
Justkate: I hear ya! Now that the iud is out and this ttc thing is really about to begin I'm a lit bit freaking out. I so want another tiny baby but I feel really bad about the idea of taking away Makenna's special one on one time. And sometimes I just feel so tired and like I never get a break that I wonder how I will manage with two. But I suppose if I am already busy and tired and not getting break I might as well have more...at least I won't be having so much time on my hands that I feel like I need to find things to fill it with...it will be filled by caring for #2.

Makenna is SOOO into saying momma/mommy these days. She says it so adoringly and loves to point to me and say "momma" over and over or "my momma". She finally started calling DH dada instead of momma and says that a lot too. She is just so enamored with us...it's the cutest thing ever!

Cindy

I'm a little freaked out at the thought too, Cindy. Especially when we've had a bad night or super clingy day, I think how in the world will I do this with two. But I know we'll handle it just fine. Everything is just one day at a time right now. And although I expect it to be difficult, I know it will be well worth it. Years down the road, I'll be watching my two kids acting like siblings and missing my little babies. Having another baby close in age is more for them than for me, I want them to grow up together. We want to have 3 all together, but I think I'm gonna hold out for that third one until after the first two are in school (assuming things go as planned) and enjoy babyhood to the fullest one last time. We'll start TTC as soon as I find a job, hopefully by the end of this summer.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: You'll be awesome with two! Are you kidding...with all the baby sitting experience you got this year? No problem for you! I agree about the third. I may or may not want one but if we do have one, it will likely be a bigger spacing than the 1st two.

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

For those of you a little freaked of making the jump to 2 kiddos just remember that your first will be at least 10 months older than he/she currently is and as they get bigger they get less time consuming. Not necessarily easier but the things like diapers, feeding, nursing all of that takes less time. I really want a third one but it's so hard to figure out when to fit that in. I want our finances to be better and I would like to go back to school. However I am currently studying for my certification exam in my specialty area of nursing and it's not going so well. So I'm thinking that the timing just is not right for me to go back to school. I need to wait until I have at least 2 in school I think. We also want to move out of this city but if we move while I am on mat leave then I have to pay back my top up. I'm waffling between trying this summer or waiting until dd is closer to 2. I really like the spacing between my kids which is just shy of 3 years. I want to be completely done having kids by the time I am 30 so that only gives me 2 years to have this last one.

Starling thanks for the mix I had gotten it from you before and it is a nice one. I find I like to adjust the xantham gum based on what I am making and whether or not I am adding eggs.

The allergy thing is the hardest part of parenting I have encountered so far.

I am beginning to wonder if dd will ever start walking. I never thought she would be this cautious about it.

I bought an ergo today. I have a wrap, a baby trekker, a babyhawk MT, a pouch sling but I bought an ergo. My dh is not going to be impressed but I really needed something that I could get dd into and out of the back carry by myself in a parking lot. I am not able to accomplish that with any of my other carriers. So I tested it out in the store to see if I could do it and I could do it quite easily although it looks a bit precarious so I bought it. Now I have to decide whether or not to sell any of my others. They all have pluses and minuses. I guess we'll see how versatile the ergo is although I bought it in blue with flowers stitched on it so dh may not wear it. I wanted a beco but nowhere in town sells them and I would want to test it first.


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## Mal85

I just got a Beco on diaperswappers. I've been using a Babyhawk, which I've become pretty good at doing by myself. But all of her weight was on my shoulders. And although we don't babywear a lot of the time, when I do it's for a long period of time, so I needed something with more support. I sold my Babyhawk on diaperswappers and ended up paying only $30 out of pocket for the Beco. It's a version 1 instead of version 2, but I think it'll work great for us. I can't wait for it to come in the mail!


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## starling&diesel

Oh, how I love my ergo. It's the only carrier we have, other than a wrap and sling that we used in very early days. We use it every single day, and since I wear DD on my back now, it's awesome! I'm so happy with it. *Nilla* ... I hope you love yours as much as I love mine! I also have the little bum bag thingy that attached to the belt. That way, I don't have to have a bag if we're not going far. I can put a cloth dipe and wet bag in there and we're good. I found that the built-in pocket isn't big enough for a CD.


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## Vegan Princess

I love my ergo as well! I use it all the time still. I still usually wear DD on my front bc she is still under 20 lbs and I love to snuggle her and be able to see her. But the times I have put her on my back felt great as well.

Starling - what is this bag you mentioned? Today we went to the zoo and I brought the stroller to carry the diaper bag and our bag of food...but I wore DD pretty much the entire time (except while drinking my coffee since they don't have lids there...but I guess I could have put her on my back and not risked spilling on her).

Cindy


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## mckittre

I use my wrap on the back, and then put one of those oversized fanny packs (REI calls it a lumbar pack) below it. It's great because I can carry diapers, snacks, water bottle, etc... and if I want to put Katmai down, I can stuff the whole wrap in the pack and get it out of my way.


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## starling&diesel

Cindy ... I have this front bag. It's not big at all, but does fit a CD and small wet bag, and even a small snack. That, plus the built-in pocket, does us for a few hours. I do have the backpack attachment too, and might try it out again now that she's on my back. I didn't like it for front carries at all, but it might be okay for back carries.
*McKittre* ... Your set up sounds great!


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## Vegan Princess

Thanks Starling. I had no idea they had so many accessories! Cool!

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

i have been meaning to reply about the 2nd or 3rd child thing but have been distracted or headachey. My kids were a bit further aprt so I think that made it easier. I really like the spacing I have. 2 years 9 months, and 3 years 1 month. The second spacing was easier as the fresh 3 year old (by the time the realize the baby isn't leaving at about 2-3 months and hence when they start to act out and such) is a TOUGH age. Of course righ tnow ALL 3 are freaking out, so i'm off


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## starling&diesel

I took Esmé to a literary soiree the other night, even though it had an open bar ... nobody protested. It's not like she was going to have a martini!
Anyway, Esmé was wandering around on her own, which is weird, because it was loud and there were about two hundred people there and no other kids, and she's normally super clingy and super shy, but she was in her glory and was the belle of the ball. Anyway, there was a table with appetizers on it, out of her reach. But total strangers were giving her food! Carrot sticks and whole grapes, I kid you not! Without asking me! Why would they think that is okay?
And taking her picture without asking ... why is that okay either? The nerve!


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## Mal85

Hello all. Thank goodness it is Friday. I feel like this week has gone on forever.

Owyn has discovered she loves to scream. It's like she's competing with herself for the loudest, most ear-piercing scream. For no reason in particular other than she likes the sound. Mommy has had a headache most days this week.

Luckily, DH started putting her to bed this week. I wasn't sure how it would go. I want that to become something he can regularly do before we have another baby. I get the feeling it'll be mostly his job when I have a newborn to care for. It's gone surprisingly well. He took a chair in her room and just hangs out in there until she goes to sleep, it's very sweet. I'll nurse her and snuggle her for a few minutes, then he takes her to bed. It's nice to get the break.


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## Everrgreen

Starling - Yeah, that's pretty annoying! Who gives a young toddler random food?? Especially choking hazard food! They probably had been spending too much time at the open bar







Taking her picture is kind of weird too. I'm going to go with the open bar explanation for that one too









For a back carry I use my wrap. I love it, it's really comfy. I still wear him on my front with the wrap a lot too. I also have a ring sling which I use a lot. It's handy for popping him in and out while running errands or even around the house.

Royce is officially walking instead of crawling. He also can get himself up to standing all by himself. It all happened so fast! He still occasionally crawls, but he definitely is prefering to walk







AND, he has a new tooth poking through! I'm pretty sure it's a molar, it's pretty far back, but it was just a tiny speck of tooth so I can't really tell for sure.

I am having a tough time right now figuring out what my next steps are on my single motherhood journey. I never planned on being anything other than a SAHM, and it is absolutely killing me to think about having to go to work. Plus I have no idea what I will do for work. I have a BSc. in biology, but have never used it, and on it's own it's pretty useless. So I think I will need some more schooling to get any sort of decent job. But I just don't want to do anything but be with Royce and raise him. I even planned on homeschooling, and now that dream is gone too. I'm hoping that at the very least we can work something out to allow me to stay home until he starts school. I am so sad about all of this


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## mckittre

starling - it wouldn't bother me to have someone take pictures, but the food thing is a little sketchy. How would they know if she was allergic to something?

Gillian - that sounds really tough. I hope you figure something out that lets you spend as much time with Royce as possible.
Katmai's also switched to mostly walking and only occasional crawling in the last week or two (though he was able to stand up without help for 3 months before he decided to walk).

Katmai's been such a trooper on this book tour - good in the car, good with new people, even happily playing with toys for a big chunk of most of the presentations (we let him wander at the front of the stage and chuck new toys at him now and then, and my husband takes him out if he gets too loud). But he picked up a lingering cough that he's had for a couple weeks now. And he's getting really tired of moving around. He starts crying every time we start to pack up now, which is so sad. Only a little bit longer, and we'll be home on Wednesday.

Katmai's starting to put his signs together into 2-word phrases now, which is really cute. His favorite is "book all-gone" after throwing the book (or a similar one with his other toys), but he also does ones like "baby eat" "dog food" etc...


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## Mal85

starling- That would all really bother me too. The food thing especially. Like mckittre said, she could have allergies they don't know about and the choking hazards! I will share food with friends' kids and family members' kids, but always after asking their parents to make sure it's okay. The pictures would bother me too. It's one thing if they're taking pictures of something and she ends up in the background, but to take her picture specifically, that's just strange.

There was a elderly woman in my town who used to come to things like prom and take pictures of people going inside. She even showed up at my boyfriend's (now husband) place of work to give him pictures she had taken of us going into prom. On my wedding day, she kept driving by where we were getting our wedding pics taken and was taking pictures of us with a disposable camera. She was the creepiest old lady. She did this to everyone in town. So, yeah, random people taking my daughter's picture would not fly with me.


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## starling&diesel

*Gillian* ...









And much magic and prayer for you to have an easier go of things.








I'm so sorry that things haven't gone as you dreamed they would. I predict wonderful things in your future ... guaranteed!


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## alaskaberry

Hi, my son was born in January '09...I know this is the Feb group, but do you mind if I join?

I'm a SAHM in Interior Alaska with 2 boys. T is my littlest. He spends most of his time climbing and running all over the place, trying to catch up with ds1. Whatever ds1 does, he has to do too. He isn't really talking yet, all he says is "uh oh", "milk" and "nyet"(knit?). I'm not too worried, ds1 never talked til he was 2 and then you couldn't get him to stop.


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## AKislandgirl

Welcome *alaskaberry!* We'd love to have you join us! It's fun to see another Alaskan too! (mckittre and I are fellow Alaskans too!)

I find it weird that random people would give Esmé food and take her picture too. Especially the food thing.

We had a rough night last night. Fiona was up for a couple of hours. Flip flopping all over the bed, not being able to sleep, even practicing her downward dog pose. Sigh. We are all a bit tired and cranky this morning. She just went down for a nap which I hope will be a long one. It's tough having 4 teeth coming at once. I keep telling myself that at least they will all be in soon. She rarely has nights like this thank goodness. I did notice this morning that I forgot to put her amber necklace on after going to the pool yesterday. I don't know if its just a coincidence or not. Maybe?

*Gillian*, you have been in my thoughts and prayers lately. I wish you luck to find the balance between working and or school and being with Royce as much as possible. I think it is doable. Do you have family where you are now or would you consider moving closer to family to get some support from them? You may still be able to take classes and such and leave Royce with your folks or something. I'm sure you have been thinking of all of these options. Is his dad helping financially at all? Good luck Mama!


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## monkaha

Quote:

Owyn has discovered she loves to scream. It's like she's competing with herself for the loudest, most ear-piercing scream. For no reason in particular other than she likes the sound. Mommy has had a headache most days this week.
omg. here too. Especially in the bath, where it echos like crazy.

The weather here has been wonderful this weekend, and we've spent all day outside. Anthony LOVES to be outside and really puts up a fight when we have to go in. He's also really fighting every diaper change. hooray for toddlers!


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## Thursday Girl

the food thing is starnge, but as for taking pictures of esme, I find that not strange. (god i could have owrded that sentence better). People like kids, people like kids even more at an adult event when their is only 1 cute kid to be attracted by. (this could also go the other way, but she was being sweet and cute so people like her) She was a novelty. Not surprised by the pictures.

Mal as for your weird picture taking lady the only thing i could think was "wow, she must be lonely. Looking for any connection to people she can get" although I would probably be a little weirded out by it, the fact that she would seek out your husband to give the pictures to makes me think it's a connection thing not a dnagerous stalker thing.

SCREAMING/SCREECHING- hahaha I HATE this. Juniper does it. Josephine does it (in fact Juniper used to get upset when Josie did it, but at some point she decided to just join her), and Now Jewel does it to make the baby laugh and do it some more. Some days it's all I can do to not reach over and bop the older girls on the head when they do it in the house. lol.

Gillian I hope you can figure something out, can you get it in the agreement that he pays child support so you can stay home. Can't there be somethign in there stating that this was the original plan you all had when you had the baby or something? I'll be thinking of you and sneding energy that this works out well.

McKittre, so glad you are almost home.

So my oldest aksed me to change her room around, take the bunk beds apart. It is requireing a lot of work with their toys (which they have entirely too many of) we are packing up a LOT of them and storing them until we get the playroom built. They have 2 garbage bags full of dress up clothes. I feel like I should go through them and only keep the nicer stuff. I am not sure how I am going to fit 3 beds in their room when Juniper turns 2. (the plan is one room for their beds and dressers and one rrom for all their toys and books. ) I might have to scrap that plan and gve Jewel her own room or convince them to put the bunk beds back up, and then a loft bed with desks underneath. With drawers under the bed and where? (like you all can help since you haven't seen the room) I think i need to get rid of some of their clothes. there is no reason a person should have so many clothes.

which bring s me to- How many outfits,, shirts, pants, undies, pajamas, etc do you all have for each person? Do you think it's enough, too much, not enough? would you pare it down, or do you just like having so many choices?


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## Mal85

Gillian, you were on my mind all weekend, just wondering how things were going with you. I really do hope you can get something worked out. It has to be so hard realizing that the way you planned your life to go just isn't working out like you'd hoped. It's hard to change plans when it comes to something as big as being a parent. And if you aren't able to stay at home with him permanently, I hope you can peace in that as well and still find a way to make the most of your situation. Royce is always going to be your sweet boy even if things aren't the way you imagined.

We really had such a great weekend here. It's been a long time since I was able to let the stress of the week melt away on the weekend. It helped that DH helped so much with Owyn and I really got a much needed break. I spent Saturday cleaning my parents' house for them and shopping for baby shower supplies. We went to a bonfire with some friends that night and Owyn, surprisingly, fell asleep in the crib they have set up for their baby on the way and stayed there until we went home!

Sunday I helped throw a baby shower for a friend and it really was lovely. I'm so happy it came together so nicely! We made a birth necklace for the mom. I wasn't sure how that would go since I've never made jewelry before and I was in charge of the project. But it came out beautiful and everyone had a great time making it!

Now, Owyn has a cold or allergies or something, so sleep wasn't great last night. But she's in good spirits when she's awake even if her face is covered in snot!


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thursday Girl* 
which bring s me to- How many outfits,, shirts, pants, undies, pajamas, etc do you all have for each person? Do you think it's enough, too much, not enough? would you pare it down, or do you just like having so many choices?

Fiona has way too many clothes. I really haven't bought much so its mostly hand me down stuff. I was feeling some obligation to keep it since people passed it down to us. I have recently come to the conclusion that this is not a good idea!! So, I'm pairing down and passing things on. For example, we mostly use wool diaper covers so I'm giving away pretty much all of the onesies except for a few really cute ones. Then when I see something I want to buy for her I feel less guilty. I'm her mom I can choose some of the clothes and not just use hand me downs!!! I actually love hand me downs but also like to be able to pick out a few things too (while I can! haha!)

Re: organzing the room. I think it sounds great to have seperate sleeping and playing rooms. Maybe you should check out apartment therepy or some other similar site for ideas of making the most of small spaces. PS. When did your girls move to their own rooms? I'm wondering how we are going to arrange our small house when Fiona gets a bedroom too.


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## Everrgreen

Thank you so much ladies for all your thoughts and prayers. We are still sharing finances, so everything is okay right now. It's just looking into the future, once we get everything legally separated. I am trying to convince him to continue supporting us until Royce starts school. Some days he is okay with it, but then he changes his mind. He's really moody. But hopefully it will work out. If I could at least stay home until Royce started school that would be wonderful. I'm also planning a move to be in the same town as my mom. It's a bigger city with more opportunities for school/work. Plus I would have my mom for support. So yeah, just lots of stuff to think about.

Royce has his first vomiting illness







It started last night. I was woken up just after midnight by being vomited on. So gross! He was even vomiting after nursing, yet wanted to nurse for comfort. I kept trying to get him to sleep other ways, but he would keep waking up wanting to nurse, so I would try and nurse and then he would vomit again. Poor boy! I thought he was doing better this morning, and fed him some applesauce, but then he vomited again. I just hope he feels better soon.


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## alaskaberry

Thursday--Ds1 has more clothes than any of us. I go through the clothes about every 6 months and throw out things I haven't worn in a year (unless it has sentimental value). By "throw out" I mean donate, or take to the transfer site. Tucker gets all of Ds1's hand-me-downs. DP doesn't throw anything out...just wears it all til it falls apart.

Gillian--Try bf'ing for 15 seconds every 15 minutes, then going down in increments--30 seconds every 10 mintues, etc until he can keep something down. I hope he's feeling better.

Those slings/wraps/etc all sound pretty convenient. I'm waiting for the day when Tucker will let me put him on my back in the mei tei. He's just too big to be on my front! I also have a wrap (like a Moby, but sturdier fabric), but I haven't been using it lately because I just never think of bringing it and the mt is always in the car. Maybe I should trade them out. I've never tried a back carry with the wrap. He used to sleep in the sling all the time...gone are the days. *sniffle* Now he has to walk everywhere.

What do you guys use for outdoors shoes for your LOs? I bought some sandals for this summer (hah, summer, it's like an oxymoron up here!), but ds1 was way younger his 12m summer than Tucker is now and he just spent all his time barefoot or in the sling. Right now Tucker is still in his Padraig booties (no one is gonna want these when we're done with them!). But they are no match for the mud/snow/ice/etc of the park.


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## Everrgreen

I wanted to respond to other posts before but duty called! So I'm back









RE clothing - I have quite a bit of clothing for Royce, but I still tend to stick to the same small handful of outfits and the rest gets ignored (and actually I just went through it and put away a bunch of things that were consistently being ignored). Of the stuff he actually wears frequently he has a pair of overalls, a pair of jeans, 2 pairs of sweatpants, a few shirts, a few sweaters, a weeks worth of onesie-type undershirts, and a few different sweater jackets/other jackets. He just has one pair of shoes.
As for me (you were asking about adults too, right?), sort of the same thing, I have a lot of clothes that I never actually wear (despite going through and getting rid of stuff probably twice a year). There are some things I hang onto just incase there is an occasion I need it for. I always wear jeans, I have 3 pairs that I rotate, and probably about 10 shirts that I rotate. I'm also the type to buy a few new shirts every new season to add to what I have, but then I'll get rid of a few that I no longer wear or that are getting too worn out.
Oh and I have tons of undies (some are getting kind of old though







) and several pairs of pjs (more than I need/wear). Royce just wears t-shirts and a diaper to bed, he probably has a weeks worth of his night t-shirts.
I guess I think I would *need* at least a weeks worth of regular outfits, plus a few things for special occasions.
Wow, that got long!

Mal - That lady does sound quite creepy. Also sad, she must not have any family of her own









McKittre - you must be so looking forward to being home! I'm glad Katmai has been handling the travel so well!

Alaskaberry - Welcome!! Royce was also born in January, but he was due in February and so I got attached to this ddc. I refuse to leave







There are quite a few January born babies here!

I have 2 questions:
1) Royce's talking is practically non existent. He makes similar sounds for the same object, but the sounds aren't even close to the word. For cat, he always just says 'ah', but he does make that sound everytime he sees the cat. And when we read books he points at everything and says something that sounds like 'duck'. Anyone else's babe have limited (non existent) language at this point?

2) Royce almost always wakes up cranky, crying, thrashing, etc. Does anyone know if this is a sign that his sleep isn't good or that he's having nightmares, or is it okay/normal?


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## Everrgreen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alaskaberry* 
Gillian--Try bf'ing for 15 seconds every 15 minutes, then going down in increments--30 seconds every 10 mintues, etc until he can keep something down. I hope he's feeling better.

What do you guys use for outdoors shoes for your LOs?


Thanks for the tip







He nursed, kept it down, and is sleeping now. Hopefully he keeps getting better.

As for shoes, I splurged on these for Royce and I really love them, they have a very flexible sole. I think I might get him some sandals of the same brand/style for the summer.

Has anyone else kept every single piece of clothing their LO has worn? I have







I don't think I will donate any of it, I'm hoping I'll get to use it all again


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thursday Girl* 

which bring s me to- How many outfits,, shirts, pants, undies, pajamas, etc do you all have for each person? Do you think it's enough, too much, not enough? would you pare it down, or do you just like having so many choices?

We're pretty hard-core minimalists, so Esmé has about four outfits that fit at any given time. All pants and shirts, so that they can be worn in many combinations. She has two sets of pajamas. Once something doesn't fit any more, out it goes!

ETA: We have a lot of bigger clothes waiting in the closet for their turn. My best friend's mom buys us lots of clothes, many of which I discreetly consign without using. We're so thankful for her generosity, but some of the stuff is just too 'precious' or are onesies that don't fit her big CD bum. We've told her that onesies don't fit well, but she "can't resist the cute ones!"

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alaskaberry* 

What do you guys use for outdoors shoes for your LOs?

We have a pair of lace-up stride rites and I love, love, love them and will be looking on-line for the next size up. I'd also like a pair of sandal-type shoes from them. I am so happy with stride rites! And I love the lace-ups!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 

I have 2 questions:
1) Royce's talking is practically non existent. He makes similar sounds for the same object, but the sounds aren't even close to the word. For cat, he always just says 'ah', but he does make that sound everytime he sees the cat. And when we read books he points at everything and says something that sounds like 'duck'. Anyone else's babe have limited (non existent) language at this point?

2) Royce almost always wakes up cranky, crying, thrashing, etc. Does anyone know if this is a sign that his sleep isn't good or that he's having nightmares, or is it okay/normal?

About the talking ... I've met SO many kids that haven't started using words yet. The majority, in fact. I think he's totally normal and right on track.
About the waking up, not sure. Is this in the middle of the night or in the morning when he wakes up for the day?


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: My sister's 3 barey said anything until age 2. She is shocked by how much Makenna says. I think it's totally normal...big variation, just like everything else! I talked early so Makenna probably got that from me.

I bought a little potty and Makenna has been peeing 1-2 times each day! It's so cute! I hope this will help her understand the concept. She is far from being able to tell me before hand though.

Ok she's crying...will answer the rest later.

C


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## Mal85

Owyn has way too many clothes. My sister keeps sending bags of hand-me-downs over. But her daughter has a disorder that slows her growth down a lot, so the clothes have been worn for longer periods of time than most hand-me-downs of this size. So, I only use a few unstained, not too worn things she sends me. I went shopping for Owyn recently because we didn't get many clothes for her birthday. I bought as if I was packing for a week long vacation without laundry facilities, if that makes sense. Everything I would want to pack. Then, my MIL went out and bought some more clothes... knit shorts and t-shirts, mostly. So, yeah, we have too much now!

I'm not too picky about shoes. Again, we have several pairs of hand-me-downs. Most of the strappy sandals my sister sent our way don't stay on her feet. Her feet are long and skinny, so they just fall off. I bought her a couple pairs of summer-type shoes at Target and she has a pair of nicer white sandals for church. I'd like to get some sturdy sandals, like Keens, for her. They cost so darn much though. She does seem to wear shoes longer than clothes, so maybe it'd be worth the $40 investment, I haven't decided.


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## justKate

Gosh, where to start! Okay, selfish me, my biggest concerns first.

No *talking* here. We've actually regressed, I think. Basically just "mama," "baba" (daddy), and some signs: eat, milk (nurse), more, and up. All of her other sounds start with "bah" so I don't know if she means them as words or not. If she's not growing her vocab by 18 mos. I'll have her ears checked again b/c of her hx of fluid, but for now, I'm trying not to be concerned (we're 2 days shy of 14 mos.).

*Shoes*, ugh. We are not shoe lovers in my house. Aubrey must wear closed-toed shoes to daycare, so right now she as a pair of pink stride rites, brown target-brand, and white sandals for weekends. Velcro until she tells me it's too babyish. I hated to put her in "real" shoes, but once she was walking at school she needed them. Three pairs is really too much, I think.

*Clothing*--again, too much. I'm saving most of her stuff _just in case_, even though a lot of it is raggy because I don't know how to do laundry. I'm feeling the urge to purge my closet, so hopefully it will come soon. I wear basically dress pants and little sweaters to work; jeans & target 3/4 sleeve tees on the weekend. Sandals/flip flops. PJs at all other times. Did I mention that I love target? And PJs?

No *pottying* here. H#!! NO. She can't sit still for that long, although I am super tempted to buy a couple and leave them in the bathrooms, just to see what she thinks.

*alaskaberry*,









More to say but need to run or I'll be stuck in traffic... talk soon!


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## AKislandgirl

*Shoes* Fiona wears Soft Stars. We are in love with them. She has a pair with laces. The soles are super flexible but handle the always wet weather well. If I know that she isn't going to be put down outside then we do the Padraigs as well but Kodiak is just too darn wet otherwise. Can't wait till she can wear her xtratuffs though!


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
She does seem to wear shoes longer than clothes, so maybe it'd be worth the $40 investment, I haven't decided.

We've had pretty good luck so far ... we found her Stride Rites on sale for 50% off because they have laces (and apparently no one wants laces anymore ...) and now I've found a pair of Stride Rites on craigslist for $15. I've also got a bid on Ebay for a pair of lace-ups in the next size up.

Oh, and a hearty welcome to you, *Alaskaberry*!


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## Vegan Princess

To finish up my last post. We have WAY too many clothes! And we have even more of the next size up. Two of my friends have been passing along hand me downs - one of which has clothes from two of her friends mixxed in as well. Makenna has tons of stuff she never wears. I think 99% of her clothes are hand me down. I sort of miss buying stuff for her, but I've been really happy with the stuff we've been given. Oh and I have given a few bags away to friends! I'm trying to save most of her clothes in case we have another girl. I suppose I could get rid of a good bit of it though! Not sure what I'll do if I have a boy - none of my friends really have boys. One does and she is done having babies but she has been passing all his outgrown clothes along to goodwill bc she has a tiny aparment. I guess I will have to shop if I have one...but I will be sticking more to the minimalist format like Starling. I'm impressed you've managed to keep it so thin!

So today is my first official day not taking domperidone - the medicine I took for the past year to increase my milk supply. It took me since January to wean off of it! My supply has tanked but Makenna is still a nursing fiend. I'm happy to be off of it.









Cindy


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## mckittre

Welcome alaskaberry! I think with three of us, we definitely have a skewed representation of Alaskans now.

I don't know what to do about shoes either. Katmai hates shoes and socks. He is barefoot whenever it is remotely possible, and yells and tugs to have his shoes off. His grandmother made him some mukluk-type shoes, which are good for outdoors in the cold, but we don't have anything else, and he'll need some more now that he's walking (and that summer will eventually come).

As for clothes, I get too many hand-me-downs, but am rather ruthless in re-donating anything the moment he grows out of it. I don't think I have yet bought him a piece of clothing.

Gillian: Katmai wakes crying sometimes too, particularly if he's in a room he doesn't recognize, but really anytime he can't immediately see me. He's usually fine fairly quickly, though.
As far as language, I think the normal variation is huge, and best to try not to worry. I worried too, until Katmai said his first word (followed by several more) just a couple weeks ago, and suddenly learned dozens of signs as well. Now I feel silly - language is just not a linear thing, I think. And he might be saying words you don't recognize. I know Katmai makes a bunch of sounds we'd never at all identify as attempts at language if he didn't do them with signs.

Katmai finally learned how to go down stairs! (crawling backwards) We don't have stairs at home, but he's seen tons on this trip and has always loved going up, so it's great he can go down as well now.


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## Mal85

On talking... Owyn still doesn't talk much either. Lately, I think she is referring to me as mama, and says baba for most other things. She tends to pick up a word for a while, say it consistently, then drop it completely. She makes a funny noise that means kitty. It's more like the phonics version of the letters k and t said over and over again. Yesterday I noticed she was saying "What" a lot. In the right context too. The questions begin, I suppose! She also says dada, but hardly ever in the right context. I'm not concerned, I know it varies so much. The little girl I baby sit will repeat words and sounds she hears from me, but doesn't retain it for long. And my nephew (6 months older than Owyn) only has a handful of words as well, whereas I have a niece 4 months older than Owyn and she is talking in 2-3 word phrases already.


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
So today is my first official day not taking domperidone - the medicine I took for the past year to increase my milk supply. It took me since January to wean off of it! My supply has tanked but Makenna is still a nursing fiend. I'm happy to be off of it.









Cindy

Happy no-more-dom Day, Cindy!








I know how stressful it is to go off of it, but congrats to you for taking it for so long, mama! I hope your boobs are full and plentiful for as long as you want!


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## Thursday Girl

we moved Jewel (oldest) to her own room when she was 6 months. DH thought she should be in there. She didn't mind, i did. especially when i had to go in there twice a night to nurse her. The absurdity of it strikes me as crazy that i ever did that. Josie was moved in when she was 2. we went to the store and she picked out her own sheets and it was a big deal all around. She still nursed to sleep just in her bed. slowly we weaned her off nursing to sleep. I plan on moving Juniper in when she is 2, but of course that seems like it will really be dependent on if we have all the house construction done.

alaska berry welcome, how funny that we have 3 people from alaska.

talking- same, i wouldn't worry. I know it's hard, I sometimes do and I'm on my 3rd kid and they have all been different.

shoes- we have some fo the leather shoes from target, and a pair of maryjanes from target with soft flexible soles, and one pair of umi's totally cute, but kind of a pia to put on

Yeah for no dom! That's super exciting, and so cool that you did that for her.

Clothes again- I saved what I pulled out of the older girls drawers b/c they all have such different styles (well I don't know what Junes is), now I just need to go through my clothes.


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## justKate

HOORAY for no more dom!!

I feel kinda guilty saying this, but I'm pretty "over" nursing. Aubrey is just so violent and squirmy, it's just irritating having to constantly remove her pinchers/feet/teeth/legs from the part of my body that they're offending. And she's really only nursing to sleep and 2-3 times at night/early morning, but UGH. But there's no other way to keep her calm at night, so when Huz rolls over at 2 a.m. and says "just give her some booby already!" I, of course, oblige. But if she wasn't looking for it, I wouldn't be bringing it up.

Aubs wakes crying about 50% of the time. Reasons are generally: 1) she's alone and didn't want to be; 2) she doesn't have a booby immediately available; 3) she didn't really want to wake but now that she's awake she doesn't want to be sleepy; 4) mama was trying to cut her fingernails while she slept. But the other 50% of wakings are really happy ones, so it balances out!


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## LynnolaS

I've been lurking here for awhile~ my son Max was born Feb. 15th, 2009. All the Alaskan postings made me jump in~ I live in Maine now but was born and raised in Juneau. So just thought I'd say hi and join in the conversation.


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## Everrgreen

Well Royce is feeling better today







Unfortunately I got sick too, but I'm starting to feel better already. This stomach bug wasn't near as bad as the one from last month (and seriously, I don't think I've ever in my life had 2 stomach bugs only a month apart!) But the last one Royce never got, last night was bad as Royce was still sick and then I got sick too. We were a mess. But I was more prepared, I had towels covering the bed so I just had to peel the top towel off when it got messy. I'm just glad we're both doing better now, it was rough!

Welcome LynnolaS!! We have such an active ddc - I love it! And I love that we still get new mama's jumping in









justKate - Oh that's hard about the nursing. I have nights like that too, if Royce is waking a lot, and I'm so tired, and then I get in my mind that 'no, I'm done, I'm not nursing anymore' and of course he cries, and for some reason I will hold off. When really it would be sooo much easier if I just gave him the boob and went back to sleep. I guess I just have nights where I want him night weaned, but it isn't really fair for him to have me being so inconsistent. It's just when I get so tired I'm not thinking rationally. Ugh!

And about Royce's cranky wakings. I would say he's more cranky during his night wakings throughout the night, then he is at his nap wake up and morning wake up. So, it's probably a 'I'm awake and I don't want to be and I can't get back to sleep' cry. But he is also cranky at the other wake ups, he needs to nurse before he can fully wake up and be happy. It's like his morning coffee







And it's not just the crying it's the full body thrashing (in the middle of the night wake ups), it gets frustrating. He will kick and squirm and sit up then throw his body down on top of me (and sometimes hurt me). It's hard to be patient and understanding when I'm tired and being physically assaulted. And almost always the only way to stop it is to nurse. So, yeah, night weaning should be fun









Cindy - congrats on finally being free of the dom! You should be sooo proud of yourself, you've given Makenna an amazing gift









Starling - do you find it hard to get the shoes laced up on a squirmy toddler? I can't imagine Royce sitting still long enough for me to lace up 2 shoes. But I will admit that the lace-up stride rites are sooooo cute.

And thanks for the reassurances everyone about Royce's talking. I'm always worried about one thing or another


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## Vegan Princess

Yesterday and today, Makenna has been nursing SO much. Like non stop. And I am getting the creepy crawlies...like she isn't really nursing so much as comfort sucking and it's making my skin crawl. I think my nipples are sensitive from all the sucking. This morning she woke at 3:45 and I nursed her for over an hour trying to get her to fall back asleep in my bed (after she refused to go down in hers). Finally at 5 I told DH I couldn't take it anymore (meanwhile she was still crying for more nuh nuhs!). So my angel of a husband got up with her and let me sleep. I don't know why I feel so annoyed all the sudden. And don't know why she feels such a need to be continually nursing all the sudden. Well not all the sudden. She always nurses a lot - but this was bad for even her!

Cindy


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## alaskaberry

Cindy--is she cutting molars? Tucker is like that when he is teething, super clingy and wants to nurse non-stop. She could also be coming down with something...

Hi, LynnolaS! Where in Maine do you hail from? My brother lives out in Bar Harbor, and we used to spend weekends at the beach, so I have a soft spot for Maine in my heart.







I'm originally from Vermont.

justKate--kwim, it seems like Tucker wants to nurse non-stop on nights when I want to be up.

mckittre--You're yurt gal from the NYT article. I still have yurt-envy!









akislandgirl--LOL, you're right. Weird, huh? What part of AK are you in?

Thanks for the shoe ideas, everyone! I'll have to check on eBay.

Re night wakings: I am so glad that Tucker is a good sleeper. DS1 woke up every 2 hours, like clockwork, but Tucker sleeps 4-6 hours for the first stretch, then nurses from about 2am on -- of course, by that time, I usually just fall asleep with him attached (we wake up around 8am). If I go to bed early, I do wake up every time he wants to nurse, and wake up with my back aching. But that could also be the bed's fault.

No pottying here either (wow, you guys have started your LOs early!). DS1 is still PL. Tucker will take off his diaper as soon as he's dirtied it, though (if he's not wearing a onesie). Makes for some interesting playdates,


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *justKate* 
HOORAY for no more dom!!

I feel kinda guilty saying this, but I'm pretty "over" nursing. Aubrey is just so violent and squirmy, it's just irritating having to constantly remove her pinchers/feet/teeth/legs from the part of my body that they're offending. And she's really only nursing to sleep and 2-3 times at night/early morning, but UGH. But there's no other way to keep her calm at night, so when Huz rolls over at 2 a.m. and says "just give her some booby already!" I, of course, oblige. But if she wasn't looking for it, I wouldn't be bringing it up.

Aubs wakes crying about 50% of the time. Reasons are generally: 1) she's alone and didn't want to be; 2) she doesn't have a booby immediately available; 3) she didn't really want to wake but now that she's awake she doesn't want to be sleepy; 4) mama was trying to cut her fingernails while she slept. But the other 50% of wakings are really happy ones, so it balances out!

The "violent" nursing is really why I stopped forcing daytime nursing sessions. She wasn't really interested, but I didn't want to lose the nursing relationship, so I kept tryin. But she would smack, squirm (with nipple in mouth), thrash around. It just wasn't worth it anymore. We're also down to nursing at bedtime and 2-3 times before getting up in the morning. Although, I did nurse her at lunchtime today. She must have spring allergies and pollen is really bad right now, so her appetite just hasn't been great. So, I offered it to her when she refused lunch for the second day in a row and she happily took it.

Sometimes Owyn wakes crying. It's usually a sign that she wasn't really ready to wake up. So, I'll try getting her back to sleep. If I can just get her to sleep for another 15 minutes or so, she'll usually wake up happy.


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## Mal85

Just had to share... It is now 6:50 in the morning and Owyn is still asleep in her crib! From 8 last night, no night wakings at all! I am in shock. My first full night of sleep since I was about 7 months pregnant, wow!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: That is so awesome!! I bet you feel amazing. I think Makenna's record is 6ish. Today she slept until 5:45 but she was up at 11ish. Thankfully she went back to sleep for an hour in my bed until 7 too. I was so afriad she'd be up for the day at 3:45 again!!

Alaskaberry: No molars here. She only has 2 top and 2 bottom so far. I had thought she was getting another top tooth bc I saw something but now I don't see it. I know more teeth are iminent and I do think she has been having teething troubles at night but I don't know that that is why she was so into nursing? I also took her temp and she was normal. Who knows?

Cindy


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## LynnolaS

Thanks for the welcome. Alaskaberry, I live in Portland, Maine. Guess we traded coasts! : )


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## mamamillet

Things here are as good as can be...







. My DP has moved 7 hours away so i have been doing the solo parent thing. We did get to spend the week with hime for spring break and it was nice...we will also be spending the summer up with him as well.
DS plays competitive soccer and has practice 3 nights a week and games on sat and sunday. It is taking its toll. this is the first season we have done the competitive route--usually we only do a rec league. It has messed up our bedtime routine in a big way so our nights have been horrible the past two weeks. Willa seems to have a 1-2 hour restless period sometime during the night. She will nurse then toss and turn. If I turn away from her she stirs and cries...but if I stay facing her I end up with a bonk to the face eventually...







.
Willa is trying to immitate more words lately. She has bye-bye and ball down pat! She is working on dog, brother and lots of animal sounds! I love this age!! Their personalities just come to life. It is so fun to see how different she is from her brother!


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## Mal85

Another full night in her bed! She woke up at about 10 minutes until 7 this morning. I'm hoping this will become a regular thing, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I forgot what it felt like to get this much sleep! Although, nighttime is the only time she was nursing, so my boobs are hard as rocks in the morning.


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## Nillarilla

Mal you could try offering first thing in the am and after lunch. These are the two feeds that were constants for my ds and my dd.

Gillian the only time my dd wakes grumpy and crying like that is when she has allergies, a cold, or is teething.

I've been sick and my kids are driving me crazy. To annoyed to really write much right now just wanted to check in.


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## AKislandgirl

well I want to be happy right now but I'm not!







I think I have thrush and it feels awful! I thought my nipples were just irritated from the non stop nursing Fiona has been doing these last few days but now I know this is more then that. I'm waiting for the clinic to open so I can get an appointment. Ugh... my boobs hurt! And Fiona is feeling crappy too so has been nursing up a storm.

We have been dairy free for 2.5 weeks. The rash is worse. Could it be related to the yeast? Maybe. I'm going to try taking sesame out next because we eat lots of hummus. Then peanuts if its not that. She eats peanut butter but not tons or often which is why I will try the sesame first. Notice how I'm avoiding the gluten. Yeah, not ready to go there yet. Her appt isn't until the 27th. If we need to see the allergist we will have to go to Anchorage. There is a 3 year waiting list for the allergist that comes to the island. Did I already mention this?! 3 Years??? I don't even get how that is possible.

Welcome LynnolaS! I love Juneau. I lived there for about a year and half but live in Kodiak now. I was in and out of Sitka for over 10 years when I was younger. SE AK is my favorite!!!


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## mckittre

Welcome LynnolaS!

I am very glad to finally be back in my own home, and Katmai is reacquainting himself with all his toys. We still have several feet of snow (and it's snowing this morning), but the sun shines in my windows past 9PM these days. And in my absence, an organic food store opened in my town! (a big deal in a town of 300). One of my good friends is working there and bringing her 10 month old along.

I can't believe that some of the babies are cutting down nursing already. Katmai's just as much of a boob guy as he ever was.


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## AKislandgirl

Welcome Home Mckittre! It must feel so good to be home. Yes the light is wonderful isn't it?! The only problem is that 6am light... I could do without that. Time to pull the plastic off of the windows and find the blackout blinds!


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## LynnolaS

AKIslandGirl~ cool about Juneau & Sitka! I always really liked Sitka. SE is beautiful~ I miss that.

We're taking Max to an allergist in June~ he's shown signs of sensitivities/allergies since birth. Not fun.

He's still quite the nurser~ although we sort of accidentally night-weaned, which has been nice.

~Lynn


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## alaskaberry

Re allergies--Tucker has, I think, an egg allergy. Something is making him break out in pimples and a facial rash around his mouth. I thought he would have outgrown it by now, but guess not. He also gets bloody diaper rashes if he eats too much citrus.









Still nursing like crazy, though.







I tandem nurse, so I wonder how Tucker will feel when ds1 quits.

Snowing off and on here in Fairbanks. I'm so, so, so ready for spring!!


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## Thursday Girl

Erin welcome home!

Junes has been saying a lot more things. My favorite is "mama", very new. She is also just saying "Dad!", like just now when he was out cleaning the chicken coop and she wanted him. When she isn't mad though she says "dada", a lot of other words have been coming as well. She is also getting some side teeth in. not fun, even with the amber.

I so want to go to Alaska someday, I could even imagine living there, but my DH would NOT be for that. He has lived in Florida his whole life. He didn't see snow for the first time until he was 29. He saw it along with our daughters. He tried to walk on the fresh new snow up at a mountain pass and sunk in to his hips. Then he threw our almost 4 year old into the snow again and again. She thought it was so funny. So if we ever move it has to be somwhere where it doesn't snow, or only occasionally snows. We have our sites set on the PNW.


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## Thursday Girl

Lynnola, welcome to our ddc!

I can't imagine a 1 year old nursing so little, all of mine have been boob fanatics at that age, even at 2 they are nursing more than taht. In a way I am slightly jealous of how little your are nursing.


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## mamamillet

I have an eating question: Do you guys give food with plates, bowls and utensils yet? I truly can't remember when DS started using these. He was in preschools so I know he was offered them by now. Willa still has issues with throwing fppd if she is done/ not interested so I have held off in offereing her food on plates or in bowls...


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## Vegan Princess

We just put the food on the highchair tray. DD eats almost nothing that requires a spoon so it's all finger food. I did give her a bowl of shredded wheat in milk the past 2 days and she didn't throw the bowl or anything. Also she did eat some oatmeal last week and I let her try using the spoon and she loved it and ended up letting me feed her a few other things off spoons if she could do it. But I have forgotten to keep offering. Thanks for reminding me. LOL. I went out and bought toddler utensils after that but she can get the tiny baby spoon in her mouth much better, despite the longer handle. I think most of the utensils are labeled 18 mos+ (the ones I bought were 12 mos)...but that leads me to believe we have another 6 mos before we need to start thinking about it really.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Fiona uses a spoon sometimes but i usually have to load it for her. But she has the coordination to get it to her mouth just fine. I should let her do it more often too. We generally put her food on her placemat at the table. I think I'll try offering her bowls and plates and see what happens. I just hadn't even thought to do it yet! thanks!

We are still a bit of a mess in our house... I am treating myself (and Fi though she showed no signs) for thrush. I ended up with mastitis but feel better from that now. Fiona and I both have colds and her rash is pretty terrible these days. Tell me we will get better! this sucks!


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## mckittre

AKislandgirl - hope you both feel better soon!

Katmai loves using a spoon (one of those little toddler ones). He's still messy, but he gets the food in there pretty well if it's not too difficult (yogurt, applesauce, oatmeal, soup). Lately he's gotten even more into it and is branching out to the fork as well. He insists on trying his spoon and fork for nearly every meal, even things like rice and veggies (really messy, and he does eventually switch to fingers). He was occasionally using the spoon at 12 months, so I think our kids are definitely old enough to learn now. For a bowl, we have one super heavy ceramic one that's nearly unbreakable and at other folks' houses I use tupperware lids or something similarly sturdy.

Katmai's been saying a few new words lately, and a lot of signs. It's kind of funny, he'll figure out one sound, and then learn all the words he can make with it. Like neigh and knee, eye, hi, and ice, moon and moo, etc... It makes me wonder how much he could say if his articulation was better.

It's been raining and raining the past few days (making only a small dent in our several feet of snow), but today looks bright and sunny! And in a hopeful gesture that the snow will eventually be gone, I'm starting the whole garden in the windowsill. I do like snow, and will go snowshoeing today, but it's time for spring!


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## Everrgreen

I started giving Royce utensils and his food on a plate just before he turned 1. He loves using utensils and can manage on his own most of the time. Sometimes he likes me to load the fork for him, but I think it's more a game then him actually needing me to do it. And he only throws the plate if he's done, usually I can tell he's done before it gets thrown (unless I'm not paying attention), or if he lifts the plate up I will take it and say 'all done'. So I think he has learned that you only lift the plate if you are all done!

AK - I hope everything gets cleared up quickly. That is one issue I haven't had to deal with - thank goodness!

Mal - that's so great that Owyn is sleeping so well! I think I'm just about ready to start night weaning. I'm getting really fed up with all the night wakings. I'm just not sure how to go about it other than with lots of crying


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamamillet* 
I have an eating question: Do you guys give food with plates, bowls and utensils yet?

We've been using plates and bowls since Esmé was about 6 months old. Breakable ones, actually, but like Gillian, I can tell when she's done and just take it away before any throwing action happens. Knock on wood, she hasn't ever thrown a plate or bowl.
And she uses her spoon and fork at every meal. She's getting better with the spoon and can get about 3/4 of whatever she wants into her maw with it, but her fork skills are a bit frustrating to her. She likes us to load it for her, and then she'll take it from there.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 

Mal - that's so great that Owyn is sleeping so well! I think I'm just about ready to start night weaning. I'm getting really fed up with all the night wakings. I'm just not sure how to go about it other than with lots of crying









Me too. I've been trying to wait to give in, but that just makes for a hard night for everyone, although I did manage to console her with "Shhh, baby, night-night" a few times before finally letting her nurse at about 0330. Night weaning. So hard. I am SO READY for E to be night weaned. Can someone just pass a magic wand over her and make it so?


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## AKislandgirl

I'll take some of that magic dust this way too! I don't even know how to do it. Sheesh, this parenting stuff is hard! I think I'll reread the no cry sleep solution and give some of those ideas a try. Sleeping though the night would be amazing!!


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## Thursday Girl

regarding utensils and such, i have been super lazy and just put stuff on the tray or on the table. she likes to "use" a spoon but has a lot of trouble with it. the getting stuff on it, not the to the mouth bit.

she got two teeth on the sides that i didn't know where coming in. just saw them when i was flipping her upside down and eating her neck. super cool. my baby is getting so big! I also went through her old diapers to show my friend what was what and it was a little sad. That and packing her clothes up to give to another friend. The other girls clothes it's fine b/c i know I will see that stuff again, but after junes outgrows it away it goes, and there are so many memories tied to different pieces.

Nightweaning- i don't plan on night weaning until she is almost 2. she nly wakes up 1-3 times and i do't really wake up, we just kind of roll over to switch sides and keep sleeping.


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## Mal85

As far as utensils, I usually just put things on the table and let her finger feed. If it's something like yogurt or applesauce, she won't even try to feed it to herself, she prefers me to feed it to her. She doesn't really like getting dirty. I'm not worried about it, it's just another thing that will come in time.

I think I can officially say Owyn is sleeping through the night.








Now, I knock on wood since I just said (wrote?) that out loud. It's been about a week now that she has slept in her crib all night. Most nights, I hear her fuss at about 4-4:30, but by the time I make it out of bed to go get her, she goes back to sleep. So, now I just lay in bed and wait to see if she is going back to sleep (which she does). Last night, I never once heard her fuss. I heard her coughing at around 5 in the morning, and she talked to herself for a few minutes, then back to sleep.

I'm really amazed that this happened all on its own. We had tried different things in the past to get her to sleep in her crib longer, quickly realizing each time that it wasn't going to work. When she first started sleeping in there at all, it was only for 1.5-2 hours. It fluctuated between that and 4-5 hours for several months. She was pretty consistently sleeping about 4 hours before she started sleeping through the night. I guess it's just something we've encouraged, but haven't had to force her to do anything she wasn't ready for. I was starting to struggle though. She would get into bed with us, nurse, and then fuss and cry for quite a while. She didn't want me to cuddle her or touch her, she didn't want me to be anywhere near her. I would eventually roll over and she'd push herself up to the very top of the bed, nestled against the headboard and go to sleep. So, in hindsight, I guess she was trying to say she didn't want to sleep with us anymore.

I have to say, I do miss snuggling with my baby now. She won't even fall asleep on my chest anymore unless she is suuuuuuper sleepy or hasn't had a good nap that day. Her daddy has been putting her to bed after I nurse her. I'm glad to have a little independence, but I do miss snuggling.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: That's so awesome! Sorry about missing the snuggles. I understand. Makenna has been in her own crib since 6 months and we gave up to co-sleeping for naps a couple months ago. But lately she only naps in her crib for half hour then falls back asleep on my lap for an hour+. I miss having more time to myself during naps but I am treasuring this snuggly time while it lasts. Plus I get to sit and watch tv and veg while she naps. LOL.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Mal, that's awesome.

I've still got a nurse all the time, snuggle all the time boy over here, so I'll try to enjoy it while it lasts. Mostly I do, though sometimes I do wish his daddy could put him to sleep, or that he didn't need to nurse quite so often (especially now that he's refusing the left side entirely - so it's all on my right nipple).

What are your kids latest interests/obsessions?
Katmai is still obsessed with everything that spins (for over half his life now!) - everything from tops to loose drawer knobs, to wind farms. Lately he's added a couple new secondary obsessions with moons and horses, which he points out excitedly in every picture book and in reality (moon sounds like "mun", and horse is "neigh" plus the sign). As for toys, he likes spinning things best, followed by books and balls.


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## Everrgreen

Yeah, I'm not willing to give up cosleeping. So any sort of nightweaning I attempt will have to involve cosleeping, which I know makes it a bit trickier. But some nights I have good nights, and I think this is no big deal, I can keep doing this. But then I have a bad night and I get so frustrated! I fantasize about being able to nurse Royce in our bed, and then when he's done just say goodnight and walk away, and have him close his eyes and fall asleep until the morning. As it is I have to stay with him until he's totally asleep (which I know is pretty normal at this age), and then almost all of his night wakings require a nurse to go back to sleep, and sometimes I just don't want to anymore!!! This morning I tried to ignore him because I was DONE and he screamed and cried and carried on forever (he wouldn't let me hold him or touch him, ALL he wanted was the boob). I was completely fuming. I actually had to leave the room with him still freaking out because I was so angry. I actually went and had a shower







. I know... Bad Mama







And he was still freaking out, but by then I had calmed enough to at least hold him and get him to stop crying. He never actually went back to sleep, and we had a playgroup this morning that I really look forward to, but he was so tired and cranky. He's napping now though, thankfully!

Okay, that sort of turned into a vent about my crappy morning









ANYWAY, as for obsessions - he still really likes throwing things into his diaper pail. Which is funny, but also annoying when he throws clean clothes in. The other day he spent probably 30 minutes going back and forth from the bathroom closet to his diaper pail, taking 1 toiletry item at a time and tossing it in the bin. And whenever I would ask him what he was doing he would just start laughing. He thought he was pretty sneaky









Oh, and BALLS. He LOVES balls! If he sees a ball, anywhere, even if it's not a real playing ball but just something spherical, he points and wants to get it and gets so excited. He's really good at playing catch too, he has great aim and can toss it pretty far. His daddy is very athletic and I'm reasonably coordinated, so I think he'll do well in sports









Oh (one more!), he also has recently learned how to say 'cat' and 'dog' (he actually first said dog a long time ago, but is saying it consistently now). Neither word is clear, but he is consistenly making similar sounds. Anyway, so whenever he sees a cat or a dog he will point and say the appropriate word. It's pretty cute


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## mamamillet

Willa loves balls. Her bother plays soccer and we watch him practice and play A LOT so thats no wonder Her other fav right now is her baby stroller. She loves puching it all over the house and even more gun is chasing a dog with it. SHe actually cracks her self up chasing after one of our dogs..I need to get it on tape! Cooking and reading are still daily activities as well.
I am holding off on the night weaning until 18 months or so. She usually only nurses 2 x during the night...now that all 16 teeth are in. I was able to nightwean her brother around that age as well.


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## AKislandgirl

Sorry you had a crappy morning Gillian!

Fiona loves to play with her shoes and socks the most! She is forever putting on big shoes, brining me shoes to put on, pulling off socks and bringing me another pair. She often wears mismatched shoes and socks around the house! She loves to say shoes and socks too. I just pulled out some pink high top converse that my brother passed on from his DD. They fit and are so cute!!! She loves them!

She is also REALLY into saying no. She yells no when I try to wipe her nose, change her diaper, redirect her from something else... now i know i have a toddler!


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## Mal85

Owyn's favorite thing to do right now is climb. Luckily we have the swing set all set up now, so she spends countless hours climbing up the ladder and going down the slide. She's also really into helping DH in the garden right now. He just got it planted and has been working a lot on the apple trees. She loves going out there with him and watching everything he does.

Inside, her favorite toy is her doll stroller. She does push it around from time to time, but really it works well as a ladder to get to where she really wants to go. She pushes it up to the couch, chairs, etc and uses it to climb up on things. She's also really into reading books right now. She still won't sit still to let me read to her, but she'll turn the pages and "read" out loud to herself.

She says shoes now! She really hasn't had many consistent words, so this is very exciting! She just got two new pairs of shoes and LOVES them. She'll go find her shoes and bring them to me to put on. She knows if she gets shoes on she's going to go outside!


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## Vegan Princess

Makenna is seriously obsessed with bubbles! She woke up from her nap today and immediately said "bubble". She says the word over and over and over all day and carries around the bubble container. She's not so into the actual bubbles as she is with dipping the wand and blowing (and eating the wand). She is also into balls and dogs and cats but nothing like this. This is crazy obsessed!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

I think Royce is about to have a growth spurt. He has been eating like crazy! Up until the last few days he had become quite picky and didn't eat much, but now he will take third or fourth helpings, wants snacks constantly, and has even started to sign 'eat' which he never did before. So I'm assuming some growth is coming!

I also had a funny realization today. I find that I have become so familiar with Royce's babbling and the way he communicates that it sounds normal to me - like it makes sense the same as if he were saying real words. And then every once in a while, if I'm not paying attention and all of a sudden I hear babbling, and it's this weird reminder that 'oh yeah, it's just incoherent babble'. But most of the time I don't think of it like that. Does that make sense?







Anyway, I just thought it was kind of funny.

Oh, and I want to give myself a pat on the back for having a very productive day. I tidied up, vacuumed, dusted, cleaned the cat litter, took out the garbage, washed a bunch of dishes, paid some bills and organized some paperwork, and am currently making homemade veggie stew with dumplings







- all while taking care of a toddler. I rock


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## AKislandgirl

Gillian you do rock!







Now I need to get off of my sitter and go do something productive!


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## Vegan Princess

Very impressive Gillian! I find my housework falling by the wayside more and more and Makenna isn't happy being confined to the safe living room anymore. That and maybe I'm getting lazier. LOL! Today I managed daiper laundry, the cat box, grocery shopping and sitting on the couch while Makenna napped on me for 2.5 hours!

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Good on you mamas for being so productive!
Our house is suffering for all the nice weather. I just don't want to be inside! Plus, after a long shift at work, house-tidying is the last thing I want to do when I get home on days that I word. Thankfully, we run a pretty tight ship anyway, so it doesn't get too out of hand too quickly.

Esmé's current obsessions are things she's always been into:

things that she can drape dangerously around her neck, such as scarves and blankets and scraps of cloth

putting things into something and then taking them out, and then putting them back in again

our cat and dog

any cat or dog

her auntie and grandma

my boobs, and their whereabouts at any given time

books

my partner's wallet

water ... playing in it, swimming, splashing, dumping, pouring, drinking, you name it


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## Mal85

I'm so glad the weekend is close. I've only had one daycare kid all week and I think Owyn and her are getting on each other's nerves. All they did today was bicker with each other. And it was raining all day so we didn't get to go outside. We did have game night with our friends tonight, so that was a nice ending to the day.

I've had a pretty productive week. With 4 kids here, I never could get anything done during the day, all of it was saved for the evening after they left. But with just Owyn and one little one her age, I've been able to spread everything during the day and relax in the evening. And I've gotten Owyn's room almost totally reorganized this week. It's nice not having to do it all at once. I've had a routine of breakfast, tidying, folding laundry and a little organization in Owyn's room while the girls follow me around and play with whatever I'm doing. Then we do lunch and I sit down for a little while when they sleep. I'm getting a lot done, but in a leisurely fashion. I like it.


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## mckittre

Gillian - you do rock!

My husband and I both work from home, and home is all one room, so juggling Katmai is kind of complicated. We have a schedule on the whiteboard to switch off every hour or two which of us is supposed to be distracting him, and which of us can put headphones on and get some computer work done. Household chores mostly fall in the times where I'm trying to entertain Katmai as well. Cleaning often falls by the wayside, but I cook a lot, have started lots of seeds for the garden, and of course we have no choice but to get wood and water. Lately Katmai has insisted on going to his grandma's for an hour or so every evening, which is helpful (he sees her come past, and cries until she takes him up to her house).

Mal and AK - can I get a bit of that shoe-loving magic this way? Katmai absolutely cannot stand to have anything (socks or shoes) on his feet. He can't get his shoes off himself, but will pull socks off within a second. He's OK once he's on my back (or walking outside, back when we were visiting somewhere not snowy), but if he's in the carseat he'll scream until the shoes come off. I ought to have stuffed him in shoes more when he was younger, I suppose.

Cindy - thanks for the bubble idea - I tried blowing bubbles for Katmai today and he had great fun popping them.


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## Mal85

Well, it's been something like 10 nights now Owyn has slept in her crib all night. Now, I keep waking up after a 7 hour stretch of sleep and can not for the life of me get back to sleep. I do feel pretty well rested, I haven't slept that long of a stretch since mid-pregnancy. I just wish I could sleep a little more. I am not an early riser, so waking up at 5:30 in the morning sucks.

Oh and DH just left for a 4-wheeling trip all weekend. So, I'm fretting over whether or not he'll get hurt. And I've never done the parenting thing by myself for several days, so I'm a little nervous.


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## AKislandgirl

Mal, I'm sure he'll be fine! You will too. Solo parenting isn't easy but you will find the time will probably go fast because you will be so busy!

DH leaves on Monday for a conference and will be back Friday. The following Monday he leaves for another week of training. I'm glad that he will be able to come back home over the weekend though. This is my warm up for summer. He'll be gone almost all of June. Then in August, Fiona and I will spend 3 weeks with my folks. I'm hoping she is less clingy during that trip. Last time we visited (just after Christmas) she wouldn't let anyone else hold her. I figure that at 18 months she's a different girl and we will be playing outside so much it will be easier. We shall see!


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## justKate

Mal, I'm jealous! In my rational mind I would love Aubrey to sleep for like 5+ hours at night, in her crib, but then when she does sleep more than 2 feet away from me I can't sleep at all because I miss her.







We've been left to our own devices this weekend too--Huz went hunting about six hours away. I try to tell myself that he's an adult and can take care of himself, and that I should focus my worrying on Aubs. Still worry a little though.

Quote:

I actually had to leave the room with him still freaking out because I was so angry. I actually went and had a shower . I know... Bad Mama
Nope, not a bad mama. Good that you're taking care of yourself, too! I'm glad your week improved after that. I know what ya mean about the babbling. We understand Aubs just fine, but I know she's not really saying _words_ most of the time. Her new words are "hi," "dada" instead of baba, and "here." "Here" is funny, because she's constantly handing us things saying "here" and then taking them back. I guess I didn't realize that I say "here, look at this..." every time I try to redirect. I'm surprised she doesn't say "stop" or "ouch" yet!

She's also picked up a couple more signs--"up," "brush teeth," "all done" (which I think is really "get outta here" in ASL, but whatever), and a B- effort "please." If you're signing with your LO, have you seen this website? The author has videos of hundreds of signs. It's great.

Aubrey's primary interests right now are: music of any kind (but better if she can make it play by herself), emptying and filling things (especially if they can be rattled to make lots of noise!), cups/containers of any kind, and being outside.

We have news on the tooth-growing front! After six months of eight teeth, two molars appeared this week. It looks silly because the incisors aren't in, but after two pretty miserable days I'm glad they're through. Teeth are really overrated anyway....


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## alaskaberry

Tucker is not interested in signs. He shows me what he wants--if it's a diaper change, he'll go get a new diaper. If it's water, he shakes his sippy cup. For outdoor clothes, he goes and gets them. If it's food, he grabs it off my plate! Right now, he loves balls, books, wrestling with his brother...and pretty much anything ds1 is doing, he has to do too.

Getting warmer out here...I even saw a mosquito the other day! Eep.









Mal, you'll be fine.







It will go by fast if you keep yourself busy. My main prob when dp is gone is letting the dishes and cleaning pile up, til I have to do a "super clean" the weekend before he gets back...and he still complains.

Mckittre, could you get a local, perhaps homeschooled child to come over and play with Katmai for 2-3 hours outside every afternoon?

Ok, I'm being lazy, time to start thinking about dinner!


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## Vegan Princess

My DH will be gone tomorrow through Sunday at a bachelor party. I hate staying alone over night but it's nice to know I'm not the only one. I'm a bit jealous that DH can go out and do something fun and be out for so long. Not that I have anything like this to do or really want to be away from DD overnight but it would be nice to maybe have the option. Maybe not. I find it harder to fill time on the weekend bc there are no story times and the other fun things are too crowded. Plus all my errands are already done. I think I may hit an earth day festival at the farmer's market tomorrow. It's suppose to be in the low 70s here. Yay! Today was gorgeous and we had fun at the discovery museum. It's right under the golden gate bridge across from san francisco with awesome views and some greats indoor and outdoor exploration for little ones.

Thanks for the signing site JustKate. We go to weekly ASL class and Makenna does use a lot of signs but lately the new signs are mostly accompanied by the verbal word anyway. So a lot of times she walks around saying the word and doing the sign at the same time. It is helpful though when she is using a word that sounds like another of her words...like apple...she says "bapple" which also sounds like "bubble". But she usually does the sign for apple too.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Interesting idea, alaskaberry.... I don't think there are any homeschooled children over 6 in town, but there are plenty of other children. The main problem now is that the entirety of outside is covered in feet of slushy punchy snow, which defeats the skills of a new walker. Maybe summer? Took him to walk on the beach today though, which he enjoyed.

justKate - I like that signing site, and also use this one. Fewer signs, but she explains while she does them, and shows her kid doing them too.
Katmai's still really into signing and is learning multiple signs per day (as fast as me, pretty much). He knows over 60 now, but his vocabulary definitely exceeds his coordination - a lot of them look the same as each other, or not much like the original. I can communicate with him wonderfully, but everyone else needs me to translate. They're super helpful though, because his verbal articulation is far more limited than his signing (he can say a number of one-syllable words that are mostly vowels, but I can't imagine him coming out with words like bubble and apple!). Some of his signs are accompanied by sounds, but the sounds are things like "fffff" for giraffe, "aar" for lion, and "sssccchhh" for fish - not very understandable without the signs. Though he did decide to start saying "hyena" today (sounded kind of like eeeeyaaa). I guess another one of his obsessions is pointing at and labeling things - especially animals and pictures of animals.

I was alone with Katmai for a couple weeks last summer while my husband did geologic fieldwork, and will be this summer as well. But it's not quite "alone" with a next-door grandma that Katmai adores.


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## Everrgreen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
We go to weekly ASL class

I'm jealous! I wish there were more programs around for Royce's age. There is nothing in my town! We have an early years centre, which you can drop in to play, but it's often older toddlers/preschoolers. They have an organized toddler group but I've been on the waiting list for it for months







Other than that there is swimming at the Y. Our last swim class is next week and I would like to do something different. It seems most programs don't start until age 2 (even the library story time is for ages 2 and up). I'm hoping to relocate soon to my mom's town which is bigger and has more to do. But for now - I'm bored!

What sort of organized programs does everyone else do?


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## mamamillet

We do a weekly story time at the library. Its for birth - 2 and its great! thats the only organized activity we do. We do try and get together with other frinds at least once a week as well. There are other programs but they cost money and we can only do free stuff right now. We do have a zoo membership (gifted) so we go there weekly as well. Its realy close and has great kids areas!


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## Vegan Princess

I love my ASL class. It's basically a playgroup and three of my friends with babies the same age are in it (2 are from my birth class and 1 of them told me about it). It's a treck though - it's in the western edge of San Francisco and I live east of the city, across the bay.

Other than ASL class on Mondays, we have playgroup on Wednesdays with a group that has been together since Makenna was 10 weeks old. I just joined another playgroup on Thursdays but I don't know them yet. We have lots of libraries around with story times so I often hit story time on Thursday morning at 1 library and Friday morning at another. A third library has sing along on Wednesday afternoons but we are usually at playgroup then. My YMCA has baby gym on Tuesday and Thursday mornings that I sometimes let Makenna do. But I don't think she is quite old enough to truly enjoy it so I don't like to pay $5 for it. I usually work out then and the childwatch lady brings her to it half the time anyway. Those are our set activities for the week. Now that it's nice we will be going to the discovery museum more...but that is a good drive away. We got a membership for half the normal price so it was worth it. I try and stay out of the house a lot or I go stir crazy.

Cindy


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## Mal85

I wish we had some organized activities here. I've toyed with the idea of opening up a child center here in town with organized activities that Cindy listed. There is nothing here. We live in a tiny, rural town and there just aren't that many people. I'm not sure how much a center like that would actually get used. There is the library that has story time now and then. Now that it's nice out and I only have 2 kids here during the day, I really should find out when that happens. We could walk to the library and back, that would be great. But, other than story time, there's nothing to choose from.


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## mckittre

Not a whole lot of organized programs in a town of 300. We have a weekly baby/toddler swim (which we do most weeks), and there's a drop in all-ages playgroup (which I haven't really done, but Katmai might be getting old enough now). Not a big deal though, since I know who all of the families with similar age kids are, and can organize informal things easily.

What are nap times like for you guys? Katmai will go to sleep 8:30-9:30 and wake up around 8:30 (not straight through), but naps are all over the place. This week he had one day where he napped 11-2, another day 4-6, another day 2-3, another day no nap at all, another day two short ones.... I can't seem to get him into a consistent schedule at all.


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## alaskaberry

I don't go to organized play groups, but when ds1 was this age I had a hard time finding mama friends around my age...everyone was still baby-less. I met one mama at the park, I knew she would be a good match because all her kids were running around barefoot.







But, most of the kids' friends are older or younger than them, it's more like I make a friend, then we have "playdates" which is just us hanging out together while our kids play.

There is an under 2's storytime here in Fbx, but I just don't trust ds1 to sit quietly for a baby storytime. I could sign him up for the computer, though.

Nap time: depends on what time he woke up/how much sleep he got the night before. So if he wakes up early (before 7, very rare), he naps around 11. Otherwise, he usually goes down anywhere from 12-3! He will still fall asleep at bedtime even if he goes down for a nap late, so that;s nice. But if he hasn't wanted to go down all day then tries to nap at 4 or 6 I just make him stay up.


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## Vegan Princess

Ugh! Makenna woke up for the day at 3 this morning!! She has been doing this lately. I think she's teething? Who knows. So she napped from 8:30-11 this morning. I wouldn't be surprised if she naps again later.

Usually Makenna goes down between 12 and 1 and sleeps for around 2 hours. She'll do about 30 minutes in her crib then the rest on my lap on the couch. The time has been shifting later and I definitely like it bc it gives me more time to be out and about in the mornings. I like mornings. I hate trying to fill the afternoon...this kills a lot of the afternoon.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

The only thing we have here for babies is Music with Mar. We really like it but the woman who runs it just had back surgery a couple of weeks ago. It will probably be another month before she starts up again. Everything else is for 3 years and up. I can take her to the pool which we do sometimes but the water is pretty cold and she doesn't love it. I'm struggling to find people with babies to hang out with as well. I'd love a weekly playgroup! I'm thinking of starting one actually. Sort of waldorf inspired... its been on my mind for a while.


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## Mal85

Owyn's naps are kind of all over the place right now as well. She's trying to cut down to one nap, but sometimes has a rough morning and needs that morning nap. If she sleeps in the morning, it's around 10 and lasts about 45 min-1 hour. If she's had that morning nap, she'll go down again in the afternoon around 2-2:30 and sleep about 2 hours. If she does one nap, then she goes down around 1-1:30 and sleeps around 2.5 hours. It's about 50-50 on how often she gets one nap and how often she gets two.

Yesterday, we were out shopping until mid afternoon. She got a 10 minute cat nap while I drove to a restaurant, so when we got home she was ready to play. She didn't go down for a nap until 4:30. Normally, I would have kept her up, but we had plans later in the evening and I didn't want her to be a bear for it. She slept until I woke up her at 6. I think she would have just slept until the wee morning hours if I'd let her. But I'd rather not get woken up at 3 in the morning for the day (yikes, Cindy!). That late nap is very, very rare though.


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## Everrgreen

Royce used to wake up at 8am, but has been waking up at 7am lately. He has one nap which starts between 12pm and 1pm and lasts 2 hours (and he naps on his own the whole time in our bed after being nursed to sleep). If we have something unusual happening (day trip/company/visiting someone else) then he will nap whenever - cat naps in the car or whenever we get home. Yesterday I was at a baby shower and didn't get home until 5pm and Royce went down for his nap then, I would have tried keeping him up but he has a bit of a cold and was sooo tired from being busy at the shower all afternoon. He did end up staying up a bit late though because of the nap. He usually goes to bed at about 8pm, I'm trying to be more consistent with this when possible.

Cindy - 3am!?!?! If Royce did that I would give him some books to play with and go back to sleep









I spent some time looking around for more activities and I found a mom and tot yoga class. The only issue is it is from 1-2pm, which is right during nap time (who runs a toddler program in the afternoon??







) But it looks like I can just pay per class, rather than for the whole session, and that way I won't feel bad skipping a class if Royce really needs his nap that day. So I think I might give it a try.


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## Nillarilla

We are away right now in Banff for a work trip for my husband. Living the hotel life. We were all really excited for this trip however Cordelia has a nasty chest cold that is not clearing. She's been lethargic, not eating or drinking much, coughing a lot and wheezy breathing and sporadic fevers. She seems to perk up and then get bad again. I think I'm probably going to take her to the clinic tommorow because I think she needs antibiotics. They are probably going to charge me out of province fees to ugh! My husband said I must be really worried because all combined I think my kids have seen a doctor 4 times. I've never been to the ER or the clinic with them. I usually can manage by myself. But she's been sick since Wednesday and it's Sunday now and little to no improvement. She's just not my girl.
I will check back later and give some responses.


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## Vegan Princess

Awww poor Cordelia! I hope she is better soon!

Gillian: We've tried the toy/book route. It lasts a few minutes then she starts crying and requires attention. I do wish we had a low bed or bed on the floor so we could just let her come and go and play while we sleep. But when she wakes up that early I put on Baby Einstein videos and try to sleep on the couch - except that she keeps bugging me to nurse. Thank god for those videos or I'd have no clue what to do with her at that hour of the day!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Nilla - Poor Cordelia, that must be scary for both of you







I've been thinking of you guys today, I hope she gets better very soon









Cindy - Yeah, I guess that's one of those things that works well in theory, but not so much in practice! I have actually done this with Royce for his 7 am wakings, and I think maybe once he got lost in a book for about 20 minutes, but usually I end up getting hit in the head with the book because he wants me to read it to him







Or he just starts pointing out the doorway to the kitchen because he wants breakfast. I feel for you though - I can't even imagine getting up that early. I think 7am is my limit!


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## mckittre

Hope Cordelia feels better soon.

3AM?! Wow. I count myself lucky that Katmai would rather get up at 8:30. Actually, my problem is more often the other direction. I would like to get up earlier, but Katmai doesn't want to wake up and won't stay sleeping without me (he will at night, not in the morning). On the whole, I'd rather have the problem that forces me to sleep until 8:30 than the one that wakes me up at 3AM.


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## Vegan Princess

Thankfully Makenna stayed in bed with me until 6:30 today!! But we had a rough night of her waking around 11:45 and screaming bloody murder the couple times her daddy tried to put her back in her crib (despite her being asleep when he tried). I really think she must be teething bc she seemed to be in pain. I eventually had to nurse her to sleep in my bed and then an hour or so later DH managed to get her down in her crib so I could sleep comfortably. That lasted for about 3 hours until she came in bed with us again for another couple hours. I'll take the uncomfortable sleep over no sleep any day though!

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

Thanks for the well wishes ladies. I ended up taking her to the ER yesterday morning because she hadn't peed in like 15 hrs. She was still very lethargic and I was very worried which says a lot since I don't worry easily. She got a chest x ray and some zofran and tylenol. Her O2 level was only 89% that am. However after the meds she nursed and had some juice and peed and had a dirty diaper and the crying from being squished into the chest xray positioner opened her lungs because her O2 level was 100% the next time. She has pneumonia but the doc believes it's viral he gave me an antibiotic script anyways to cover just in case it's bacterial or she gets a secondary bacterial infection. I've filled it but haven't given it to her since she seems on the mend and the antibiotic is notorious for causing nausea and diarrhea and an awful taste in the mouth. I think it would just set us backwards since she's finally hydrated and eating again. If she spikes a fever or seems to get worse in any way I will be giving it to her though. I've been doing chest physio on her and before she was crying when I did it (probably because it hurt) but now she is singing so I take that as a good sign. Now dh is getting sick and I'm not feeling so hot either. I have AF though so it may just be that.

Cindy when Cordelia wakes up screaming like that I pop a few teething tabs in and chase them with the soother or the boob. Usually settles her. Maybe this will help you?


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## AKislandgirl

I'm so glad to hear that Cordelia is feeling a bit better. I hope the rest of the family gets better soon too!

I took Fiona to her Dr appt today and didn't get a lot of answers about her skin. I'll just have to keep plugging away at it until I get it figured out. I was able to check her weight while I was there. She's steadily gaining and is up to 17.6. The Dr seemed happy with that.

I just started AF. My first. I'd like to start charting again to see if I'm ovulating but I don't know how night nursing affects temp. Anyone have experience with this?


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## Vegan Princess

AKIsland: I started charting this month too. I think you just need 3 hours of uninterupted sleep. My temping times are a bit all over the place though I *try* to temp somewhere around 4am. I think it can be a bit off due to timing variation but I think the uninterupted sleep is the most important part. You could always try and see how it works out for you.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 

What are nap times like for you guys? Katmai will go to sleep 8:30-9:30 and wake up around 8:30 (not straight through), but naps are all over the place. This week he had one day where he napped 11-2, another day 4-6, another day 2-3, another day no nap at all, another day two short ones.... I can't seem to get him into a consistent schedule at all.

nap times always start getting wacky for my kids at this age as they transition to less naps or no nps.

we have molars coming in and she is fussy at night, plus clingy all the time suring the day, she used to be our equal oppurtunity baby and go to everyone equally now it is ONLY Mommy and I am being driven insane! plus my 4 year old whines and crys all the time, the 7 year old has so much attitude. Yesterday I was told about 4 times by each of the older girls how they hate me. Super fun right?

BUT we are going camping this weekend, it wil lbe devine and relaxing and wonderful. a nature boost is just what i need.

activities- we are in a mom and tot gym class, babytime at the library-they don't mind walking exploring little ones, and lll once a month, and a moms group at the birth center twice a month.


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## Vegan Princess

Makenna fell and burned her hand on our floor furnace the other day! Poor baby looks like her palm got branded. :-( I feel awful. We bought a gate to go around it over a month ago but she was being so good about avoiding it and the warm weather is almost here so we put off putting it up. But I think she fell on it. Not sure? She was really upset the evening it happened but yesterday and today she doesn't seem upset and isn't avoiding using it at all. We have her 15 month appt at the dr today so they will check it out. Needless to say, the gate is up now!

I think we are going to night wean. The waking up is getting worse and she is getting hard to put down again. I was going to start this weekend but I might wait until her hand is better to make sure she isn't waking up bc she's in pain.

Makenna must be going through a growth spurt - she's eating her 2nd breakfast and it's not even 9am yet. She specifically asked for it - which she is starting to do more now.

Cindy


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## justKate

Any one have any familiarity with sensory processing disorder, or sensory integration disorder in their little ones?


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *justKate* 
Any one have any familiarity with sensory processing disorder, or sensory integration disorder in their little ones?

Nope ... is this something you're thinking of in regards to your little one? Tell us more?

*Activities*: We go to library story time once a week, and a music class that we just started on Fridays (with hopes to bring E out of her shell a bit in a smaller setting with a musical distraction). We also go to Family Place once and a while, which is a free drop-in centre with activities and snack and circle time. And swimming, twice a week.

*Nillarilla* ... how is Cordelia?

*Nightweaning* ... Would love to. Am trying to not give in between 12-6am. It works some nights. I let her fuss and have my partner comfort her, unless she wakes up enough to ask for 'num nums' specifically.

We're going on our first shmancy date since having E ... to a la-di-da French restaurant for my partner's birthday tonight. We'll be home in time to put E to bed at 930pm, and she'll spend the evening with my sister, who she adores. Can't wait!


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## justKate

'been reading but am too preoccupied with Aubs to respond appropriately....

Nilla--hope Cordelia's feeling better!

Cindy--sometimes I can't believe how hungry they get! Aubrey was signing eat to me the other night, and I didn't believe her, but put her in the high chair anyway. She ate a ton of yogurt and some corn. Guess all that growing makes them hungry!

As for Aubrey, I'm about at wit's end. The meltdowns over nothing, the weird NEEDS, the intensity. I'm ready to wean her from all of this, so I posted here in BFing beyond Infancy about it, but I really don't want to yet.

Here are the "oddities" that together are making me think she might have some sensory processing difficulties, specifically she seems to be constantly seeking stimulation and almost _needing_ it to get through her day. I bolded the stuff that bothers me most.

-overreacts to everything. Laughs and cries louder and more forcefully than other babies. To the point that strangers have commented on such a loud laugh coming from such a small girl.
-texture adverse with foods, especially fruits.
-daredevil--always running in to things and falling down on purpose. Loves loud, rough play. The rougher the better.
*-pinches herself, bites herself, pulls her hair, bangs her head on things, especially if fighting sleep*
*-gets upset if I touch her hands* or bare feet for any reason; gets hysterical about having face/hands washed
-loves a good hard massage and *seems to crave any type of pressure on her body* (carseat straps, my limbs over her when I'm trying to get her to sleep).
-loves baths, water play, dirt.
-hits things instead of touching them (bushes, grass, new toys, food)
-seems to _need_ to pinch, kick, and hit me while breastfeeding. Becomes hysterical if popped off the boob for this reason or if I try to restrain her arms/legs.
*-will not let me comfort her* by holding or cuddling when she's upset. Consistently throws herself out of my arms and runs away from me when she is mad about anything.
*-never crawled normally.* She crawled on one foot, one knee, one open palm, and one fist. Cute, but weird.
-seems to want to read books but can't stay still long enough to get through more than 3-4 words (2 pages?). Brings me books and walks away; rummages purposelessly through her toys.
-doesn't seem to need sleep.
-cries at least 4 hours/day despite needs being met: not hungry, not hot/cold, mama physically and emotionally present, clean diaper. Usually because she's angry about something (refilled her sippy with milk instead of water?) or doesn't want to be asleep despite being obviously tired.
-doesn't seem to recognize that she should hold on to me when being picked up/carried. Is only affectionate if biting or hitting, like she can't distinguish biting and hitting from kissing and touching. The harder the better, in her mind.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just not really sure what's up with her. I went to the book store and bought The Out-of-Sync Child and The Sensational Child, so maybe that will shed some light. Although the Out of Sync Child seems more geared towards school-aged children....

It looks like I need a referral from a doc to get an OT eval, which is going to be a pain because the only doc Aubs has seen is an idiot, and if we go back I'll have to hear it about vaxes and well baby checks, etc. I dunno.

You know how you sometimes just _know_ when it has to do with your child? I just know something's off and I don't know what or how to make it better for her.

I should say thanks to you guys for giving me a place to get all of this out. It's nice to have a place where no one is going to tell me that I'm crazy.









Hopefully the weekend will brighten my mood.


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## starling&diesel

*justKate* ... It must be quite scary bringing your concerns all together like that.








Mama's instinct is a powerful thing, and it sounds like you're right on track to be Aubrey's best advocate. She's a lucky girl to have an observant mama such as yourself, especially if you're instinctual concerns lead to any interventions. The earlier, the better! What would support or intervention look like at this point?


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## AKislandgirl

Just Kate: my friends daughter is 3 and has been diagnosed with sensory processing disorder. I'll ask her about some of her favorite resources and books. I think its so important for parents to trust our instincts on these things. I think an evaluation would be great because the earlier the better as far as finding therapy and interventions that will help your family. I'll get back to you soon on some of those books. Hugs to you Mama!

Today has been a great day for me. It was very productive. (finally, I've been needing one of those days!) I got new sheets on the beds, laundry done (well its an all day process to do all of the loads I'd been putting off!), kitchen cleaned, house vacuumed, and scooped all of the dog poop in the yard! Woo Hoo! Yeah me! DH is coming home tonight from his conference and I want him to come home to a clean house. He's only home for the weekend before heading out again for the week though.







We'll have to make the most of our weekend.

So since AF returned for me this week I've been thinking a lot about my fertility and conceiving. If I'm ovulating (wouldn't that be a fantastic miracle!) and conceive this cycle then I'd be due at almost exactly the same date as I was with Fiona. I just thought was kind of cool! I'm not doing anything to prevent pregnancy because if I'm blessed enough to get pregnant without ART I would jump for joy!







BUT the thought of it being more of a possibility now freaks me out a bit. It would be funny to join another February DDC though wouldn't it?


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## Vegan Princess

justKate: Sorry you are having such a hard time! Totally trust your gut. Having her evaluated certainly can't hurt the situation. I am no expert but autism comes to mind - perhaps something on that spectrum? I hope not!

Starling: I hope you guys have a fabulous time at dinner!! I'm jealous...but I have actually had a few nights out alreay.

So we are back from the dr. Makenna has a 2nd degree burn and should have been seen yesterday - but the dr on the phone said not to come in. Our dr was very mad about that. They put special cream on and bandaged it up and we have to go back on Monday to have it looked at and rebandaged with more cream. Poor darling!!









She is 30 inches and 21 lbs 10 ounces. 25%. Also dr said she is getting her molars and gueses that is why she has been up so early. I though molars were a long way off bc she still is missing 4 teeth that usually come in before the molars but the dr said they're on their way in, despite the order. I see this as a good thing - get it over with and hopefully she will be able to eat more varied foods bc she'll be able to chew them up! Yay! But not yay until they stop hurting her!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

justKate -







I'm sorry you're having a hard time, it does sound like Aubrey has some sensitivity issues from what you've posted. I don't know much about spd though, but hopefully you can get some good info. I think it's great that you are trusting your instincts and getting some help. Feel free to vent here all you want!

AK - Congrats on a productive day!







And while the idea of getting pregnant again gives me a little spark of excitement, I'm definitely not ready. Even if my life weren't complicated right now, I still think I'd be waiting another year to ttc. And selfishly I don't want too many from our ddc to get pregnant again because then you will all leave







But I'll happily send out some baby dust your way









Starling - I hope you enjoy your date! I think I need to go on a fancy date









Thursday - I hope you enjoy your camping trip - sounds like fun! It's still too cold here for camping, unfortunately!

Cindy - Oh no! Poor Makenna







I hope her hand feels better soon!

Royce is also eating tons of food. And he is always 'asking' for food (pointing to the kitchen or going into the kitchen and pointing at the cupboards, while making a little 'ahh??' sound. I need to keep my fridge stocked!

As for weaning, I'm still thinking about it. I want to, but I don't know how to go about it, just thinking about going through the process of weaning exhausts me. And, Royce is not nursing very often throughout the day, and I don't want to risk weaning him altogether. I don't know. I need to think about it some more...

I think I had something else I wanted to bring up here, but my brain isn't working, I'm tired, so I guess it'll have to wait... It's been a busy couple of days, I need some sleep


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
So we are back from the dr. Makenna has a 2nd degree burn and should have been seen yesterday - but the dr on the phone said not to come in. Our dr was very mad about that. They put special cream on and bandaged it up and we have to go back on Monday to have it looked at and rebandaged with more cream. Poor darling!!









Cindy

Poor Makenna!
If it's any consolation, Esmé had a third degree burn on her leg when she pulled hot coffee onto her lap at a restaurant and it healed BEAUTIFULLY with that silver cream. We did have to do daily dressing changes, but honestly, there isn't even the tiniest scar left. I hope Makenna heals up nicely!


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## mckittre

justKate - that sounds hard! Good luck with the evaluation. I hope her issues out to be something you can get some help for, to make you both happier.

I hope Makenna's hand feels better soon. We've worried a bit about Katmai and our wood stove (he knows not to touch it, but he could trip and fall near it), but he's been quite careful/lucky so far.

All these hungry kids - could you send some of that hunger my way? Katmai is not a big eater, and he's a tiny little guy (not even quite 20 pounds yet). Usually he won't eat all that much even of foods he likes before he's off to do something else, or deciding to climb onto the table instead. Even when he asks for food it often ends up discarded after a few bites. So no weaning here! I encourage him to nurse as often as he wants to, even at night, because I think he needs the food.
The other day we were at a party and a 10 month old started stealing Katmai's food. It was great - the competitive spirit actually got him eating for a couple minutes before he got distracted again. Any tips for getting more food into a tiny kid?

AK - good luck!

As for naps, I'm starting to see that I need to insist on Katmai not sleeping before 1:30PM or so. He had a short morning nap on my lap this morning, and wouldn't go to sleep again at all until 9:30PM or so. He's remarkably pleasant even when he's super tired, but I feel bad for him.

I'm wishing our several feet of snow were gone. Katmai is starting to really love going outside. He signs outside, says "ice" (his pronunciation of "outside", but it's appropriate), and bangs on the door. But despite his game attempts, he finds it pretty difficult to walk in slushy punchy snow. As do adults, really. I'm getting tired of being limited to the 10 foot square clear patch under the trees. The beach is our friend, but it's a bit more of a walk to get there, so I can't do it every day.


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## Everrgreen

mckittre - Royce was quite picky for the longest time as well, only in the last week or so has his hunger hit him, I think it's probably a growth spurt. So, no tips, sorry, I think he will eat when he's hungry









And I wanted say that I said 'weaning' in my pp, but I meant 'nightweaning'. I am definitely NOT thinking about weaning in general


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
mckittre - Royce was quite picky for the longest time as well, only in the last week or so has his hunger hit him, I think it's probably a growth spurt. So, no tips, sorry, I think he will eat when he's hungry









And I wanted say that I said 'weaning' in my pp, but I meant 'nightweaning'. I am definitely NOT thinking about weaning in general









Gillian, a friend of mine recently nightweaned her LO. I think she was 15 months old at the time. She got a night light that has a timer. She set the light to come on at bedtime (around 8-8:30) and turn off at around 4:30 in the morning. And she was able to teach her daughter that she could nurse when the night light turned off. Seems to be working for her, she was eventually able to make that connection. So, now they're getting quite a long stretch of sleep before she wakes up to nurse. Might be worth looking into.

Owyn and I are going to visit a Waldorf school today. They are having their May Day Music Festival, so it should be a good time. We're going with a friend of mine who is pregnant. She's buying a stroller from one of the teachers there. This is the first time I'll get to see their house, which they built out of hay bails! Should be pretty cool, I'm looking forward to it!

A good friend of mine is due in just 2 weeks! I think she is so ready for him to get here and I can't wait to snuggle that new little baby boy! Send some labor vibes her way these next couple weeks, she could use it! DH thinks I'm a loon because I keep saying how I just want to sniff his head and smell that new baby smell. I miss that so much with Owyn!


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## Vegan Princess

Tylenol and motrin for babies has been recalled. I think it's almost all of their product, regardless of batch. Both bottles of tylenol and the bottle of motrin that we have were all on the list - despite the fact that they were purchased at different times and in different states.
http://www.mcneilproductrecall.com/p...new_recall.inc

Not sure what else to use? Generic maybe? Makenna has 5 teeth coming in so you better believe DH is off to the store to buy something else ASAP...can't make it through a night without pain relief right now!

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
Not sure what else to use? Generic maybe? Makenna has 5 teeth coming in so you better believe DH is off to the store to buy something else ASAP...can't make it through a night without pain relief right now!

Cindy

Esmé has a wicked fever today, of all days ... I think she's finally working on teeth 3 & 4. I got the 'equate' brand of aceteminophen (Tylenol) at Walmart. The guy there was so dense. They hadn't removed anything off their shelves, and nor had they checked it!







I went in on my shift, dressed in my paramedic uniform, with my radio sqawking on my belt and my ambulance parked outside, with a big, beefy partner who rolled his eyes dramatically when the pharmacist said they hadn't checked yet (this was at 6pm tonight after it'd been on the news ALL day ...), so hopefully we put the fear of liability into him. Yeesh.


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## Everrgreen

Yikes! Of course there's a recall, I've given Royce nothing but homeopathic treatments, until just a few weeks ago I caved and bought some tylenol







But, I'm wondering if there is a different recall list for Canada, I should go look. My bottle doesn't have an NDC number, it has a DIN number, which doesn't match any of the numbers listed there. So I'm a bit confused. I guess I should still throw it out? Maybe I can find a list for Canada.

Cindy - I have had good luck with hylands, although maybe Royce is just a good teether. He also wears an amber necklace.

Mal - Thanks for the tip! I actually tried to not nurse Royce for about 6 hours after we went to bed. We went to bed at the same time last night (9pm) and I decided I would avoid nursing until 3am. He only woke up once around midnight and easily went back to sleep with just a back rub. BUT, then this morning from about 3am until 7am (when we finally got up) he was awake and wanting to nurse AT LEAST every hour, sometimes every 30 minutes. Sooooo, I'm not sure how to get him to sleep for a bigger chunk in those early morning hours.

And I also have a friend who's due the end of the month and I am SOOO excited. She has asked me to come to the birth so I'm really excited about that! It is a hospital birth though so it will be a new experience for me. But I can't wait!


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: It's not the batch number printed on the bottle - it's the NDC number on the main label - I think it is above where it says Tylenol on the front. I should try the amber necklace! My MIL tried to buy Makenna one for her birthday but ordered one that was WAY too big and couldn't exchange it so that was the end of that. She was SO crabby yesterday - bummer bc we took a trip into the city to walk around and have a picnic in a park and she was a fussy pants the whole time. And now at night she is waking up 15-30 minutes after I just nursed her to sleep and demaning more na-nas - night weaning isn't going to be pretty!


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## starling&diesel

Nightweaning ...








How are you supposed to nightwean when as soon as something goes awry (teething, injury, travel, new insecurities) send our babes right back to their bestest place of comfort?
We'd been doing well with not nursing from 12-6am (kind of a la Jay Gordon) but then her feverish teething fest last night lead to her being latched on pretty much all night.


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - The number above the 'Tylenol' name is the DIN number, there is no NDC number. I can't figure it out







. I read that the only recalled product that was exported here to Canada was the Motrin stuff, so maybe I'm okay.

And, I agree about the nightweaning. Part of me feels that I shouldn't really bother until his molars are in. Or at least not really push it, which I wouldn't do anyway. He has 2 molars that have broke through, and 2 more are about to push through. And really other than some extra nursing at night he seems to be handling it really well. So maybe I should just be happy with that and not push my luck!

In other news, Royce has learned that his finger can fit perfectly into his nostril







(and that is a completely sarcastic jump for joy). So far I have just been ignoring it as though it is nothing interesting. I figure if I try and get him to stop it will just encourage him to do it more.


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## Nillarilla

ARRRRGGGH Both my kids have had tylenol and motrin in the last week because of fevers and aching bodies and pneumonia.


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## mckittre

Threw away my tylenol too, though Katmai's only had it once in his life at about 9 months old. He seems to have his parents' good immune system.

However, I am getting worried about how small he is. I'll probably post this as a more general question as well. He last went to the doctor at around 11 months, and he was 19lb 7oz, and 29.25 inches then. I tried to weigh him myself a couple weeks ago and only got 19lb 13oz. I tried to get a rough measure of his height today by standing him against the wall. He was too wiggly to get anything very accurate, but it seemed about the same as before - a little more than 29 inches. Otherwise he's super healthy, happy, developing fine. Should I take him to the doctor? Not sure what they could really tell me, anyway. I do try and feed him as much as he wants, but even when he's super excited about a food, he won't eat much of it. Any thoughts?


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## Thursday Girl

erin, if it was me, I wouldn't tak ehim to the doctor as long as he is healthy and doing just fine. Babies come in all sizes. What is a normal size baby right now? My Junes is only 20-21 pounds. As for size she is my middlest sized baby. Jewel was always a size up in clothing, josie a size under in clothign, and Junes is alway right on. (ex 12 months in 12 month clothes. I guess she should be getting up to 18 month clothes soon)

thanks for the tylenol recall info. I checked but it turns out we have the walgreens brand. I googled to see if that was recalled and the only thing i could find was a discussion about it, saying that if the brand wasn't listed it wasn't recalled. One lady said the hospital she works at buys the generic kinds b/c there is generally less recalls on those.

for teething we use boiron chamomilla 6 c for teething pain with irritability homeopathic teething tablets & an amber necklace. the two combined seem to work. She was pretty freaking miserable as she has two molars coming in and we were out of the tablets. Finally i made my husband go and buy some.

Just kate, I'd say trust yourself. Some of the things on my list my kids did, but not all of it and I didn;t have any feelings.

Camping was a lot of fun. (although my sister is now here doing laundry and complaining we bought too many groceries and it was too expensive. We went in together...and then I cooked all the food. GRR) It was pretty hot but floating down the river on blow up rafts was awesome. The baby didn't like it the first time, the second time she was a little cooler with it, and the third time she loved it. It was nice b/c my big girls are big enough to sort of go off on their own now. The 7 year old really did, and the 4 year old stuck a little closer to camp. It's on our friends property and everyone camping there is cool so you didn't have to worry about your kids getting snatched or anything. I wish someone had gotten a pictre of us all floating down the river. (Kind of like when I take photos of my husband and the kids canoeing, but no such luck when you are the one taking pictures./ The only picture of me I took myself.)


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## Mal85

Courtney, I'm so jealous! I can't wait to get out and start camping this season! We've been talking about going just outside of town the last few weekends, but it keeps raining and we have been so busy on the weekends. We're going to a weekend-long camping music festival over Memorial Day weekend and I can't wait! How did Junes do? We took Owyn a couple of times last summer, but she was so little I didn't really have to do anything different. It'll be interesting taking a toddler camping, that's for sure!

I swear, every day, Owyn is less and less of a baby. I'm having trouble fighting this itch for another baby. I'm hoping it helps when my friends have their babies this summer, I'll have noobs to snuggle! I just want to enjoy this summer with Owyn and doing things with her as an only that she can actually enjoy now that she's older. Then, after the summer is over, we'll start trying. I can't wait to experience pregnancy again!

Question about the recall. I checked the NDC number, and the number on our bottle doesn't match. So, are we good? We just bought this bottle right before the recall came out, I hate to waste the money.


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## Nillarilla

Quote:


Originally Posted by *justKate* 
As for Aubrey, I'm about at wit's end. The meltdowns over nothing, the weird NEEDS, the intensity. I'm ready to wean her from all of this, so I posted here in BFing beyond Infancy about it, but I really don't want to yet.

Here are the "oddities" that together are making me think she might have some sensory processing difficulties, specifically she seems to be constantly seeking stimulation and almost _needing_ it to get through her day. I bolded the stuff that bothers me most.

*-overreacts to everything. Laughs and cries louder and more forcefully than other babies. To the point that strangers have commented on such a loud laugh coming from such a small girl.*
*-texture adverse with foods, especially fruits.*
*-daredevil--always running in to things and falling down on purpose. Loves loud, rough play. The rougher the better.*
*-pinches herself, bites herself, pulls her hair, bangs her head on things, especially if fighting sleep*
-gets upset if I touch her hands or bare feet for any reason; *gets hysterical about having face/hands washed*
-loves a good hard massage and seems to crave any type of pressure on her body (carseat straps, my limbs over her when I'm trying to get her to sleep).
*-loves baths, water play, dirt.*
-hits things instead of touching them (bushes, grass, new toys, food)
-*seems to need to pinch, kick, and hit me while breastfeeding. Becomes hysterical if popped off the boob for this reason or if I try to restrain her arms/legs.*
-will not let me comfort her by holding or cuddling when she's upset. *Consistently throws herself out of my arms* and runs away from me when she is mad about anything.
*-never crawled normally.* She crawled on one foot, one knee, one open palm, and one fist. Cute, but weird.
-*seems to want to read books but can't stay still long enough to get through more than 3-4 words (2 pages?). Brings me books and walks away;* rummages purposelessly through her toys.
*-doesn't seem to need sleep.*
-cries at least 4 hours/day despite needs being met: not hungry, not hot/cold, mama physically and emotionally present, clean diaper. Usually because she's angry about something (refilled her sippy with milk instead of water?) or doesn't want to be asleep despite being obviously tired.
-doesn't seem to recognize that she should hold on to me when being picked up/carried. Is only affectionate if biting or hitting, like she can't distinguish biting and hitting from kissing and touching. The harder the better, in her mind.

Let us know what you find out Justkate since the ones I bolded are the same things I have found a little 'off' with my dd. I was thinking she was just high needs and very spirited. My son is also very 'touchy' and 'fiddly' drives me bonkers. I'd be very interested to learn what you find out.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 

Royce is also eating tons of food. And he is always 'asking' for food (pointing to the kitchen or going into the kitchen and pointing at the cupboards, while making a little 'ahh??' sound. I need to keep my fridge stocked!

As for weaning, I'm still thinking about it. I want to, but I don't know how to go about it, just thinking about going through the process of weaning exhausts me. And, Royce is not nursing very often throughout the day, and I don't want to risk weaning him altogether. I don't know. I need to think about it some more...

When I nightweaned dd increased her daytime nursing by at least 2 sessions. She also started eating a lot more.

McKittre I'd say just increase the calories and good nutrition in the amount he does eat. If he's tiny he probably has a tiny tummy.

Cindy - so sorry to hear about Makenna. Hope her hand is healing well.

Thursday's Girl - so jealous of the camping!

We are home!!! Yay! Cordelia's made a full recovery and I'm very glad I didn't give her the antibiotics although I waffled on that decision a couple times. She is back to her loud boisterous self and eating again which is fabulous. Our trip was good but tiring. We really missed home and my son had too much soy so he's itchy and cranky and Delia ended up getting some dairy which caused screaming poops. But other than that we are in one piece and will be back to life as normal tommorow.


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## AKislandgirl

just catching up reading after being away from the computer for a few days. DH is out of town again and I've been super busy. I threw out my back over the weekend and am in so much pain. It is slowly getting better but its hard to keep up with the kids and the house and not having any break at all with DH gone. He'll be home Friday and I can't wait! He'll be coming home to a disaster of a house though.

I seriously need to get in a routine of doing back/ab exercises EVERY DAY!!! I'm also going to see a Rolfer who is going to be coming to town soon. Ughh! I hate back problems.

We have had gorgeous weather this week though which has been such a nice change. Yesterday was sunny and 60! Love it! A good friend dropped off dinner for me yesterday too since he knew DH is out of town. So nice!

Glad I read about the tylenol recall. Fiona has been teething with these same 4 teeth for over a month now. 3 ofthe 4 have just broken through the skin but she's a cranky pants. She does well with the chamomillia too but we are out and I have to order some. Regular hylands teething tablets don't help quite as well.


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## starling&diesel

We were at a local cafe this morning and I saw a mama friend that I know from the neighbourhood. Our kids play together a lot. I asked where her little ones were, and she said her daughter was playing in the toy area. "And your little guy?"

She told me that he passed away on Sunday. Twenty months old.

He and Esmé were just playing together in the sand box last week! He'd been ill with cancer when he was smaller, but was thought to be in remission. He fell sick quite suddenly and they found that it had spread all over his brain. He died in his mama's arms, with his big sister and papa at his side.

Rest in peace, mister muddy pants.









Today I am celebrating the sleepless nights, the teething troubles, the nipple bites, the tantrums, the aches and pains of parenting this little girl who I love so very, very much. Hold onto your babies extra tight today, mamas, and give them a big heart hug on behalf of Esmé's little buddy.


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## Nillarilla




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## Vegan Princess

Wow Starling! That brought tears to my eyes. I am so so sorry to hear about the poor darling. Your post really puts everything into persepctive!! Thank you. I'm not going to stress so much about the not going to sleep or waking up or crankiness - I'm just going to be thankful to be experiencing any of it!

Cindy


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## mamamillet

Thanks for the reminder that I have two healthy loving wonderful amazing kiddos...even when they make me crazy...your friends family is in my thoughts.


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## Everrgreen

Oh Starling, how incredibly sad. I can't even imagine... I will definitely be holding my boy close tonight. And, yes, thank you for the reminder of how wonderful it is to have a healthy baby. I will be thinking of that poor little boy and his family tonight


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## AKislandgirl

Oh that just made me cry. I'm holding my girl close and thanking God for a healthy baby. I can't even imagine the pain they must be going through. My prayers are with your friends.


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## Nillarilla

I had an incredibly trying day with my kids today but I read your post starling about midway through the day and while it didn't change my children's complaints it did allow me to hear them with extra loving ears today and give them hugs and kisses when I might otherwise have been too angry or annoyed. My thoughts and prayers are with that mama and her family.


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## Thursday Girl

Starling, they are in my thoughts.


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## justKate

Starling, that's so unsettling. I can't imagine how devastating it would be--and then to have to live life somewhat "normally" for the older child's sake. Poor baby, poor baby's family. 20 months. How awful.

Here, Aubrey is still her usual self. She's started saying what I think is her own name, over and over: AbWEE, AbWEE.... The molar she was working on came through a couple days ago, but it didn't seem to improve her disposition. I made an appt. with the doctor for the end of the month to see about a referral for an OT evaluation. Would have liked to do it sooner but we'll be in CA visiting the inlaws for a week, and I want to try her back on the reflux meds for a week or two just to re-rule that out as a cause of some of her issues.

Some GOOD NEWS for me: I called my midwife's office today and learned that I WAS double stitched after my c-section, which made me feel so uplifted. With all of the drama after Aubs' birth I never asked. So maybe there is a VBAC in my future. That thought brings me a lot of peace. We aren't TTC yet (or even soon), but the question had been hanging over me for a while.

It almost feels wrong to have happy thoughts when someone close to you is suffering, Starling. I'll keep the baby in my thoughts....


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## Mal85

Starling, it breaks my heart to hear stories like that. I can't even imagine what the family must be going through. Ever since I read your post, I've been hugging on Owyn as much as she'll let me.

I've been a little sad the last few days. Suddenly, I feel like my baby is gone. She has no more interest in nursing, although I still do it to calm her down before bedtime. She has been sleeping the whole night in her crib in her own room for weeks now. She's often too busy to have snuggle time with me. Even that bedtime nursing session is quick and she's immediately ready to go lay in her bed, she fights me if I try to snuggle with her after.

There were times when she was a newborn, I thought this baby stage would go on forever. But I blinked my eyes and it's over. I even get a little teary anytime I go through her clothes, putting away the ones that she's grown out of. She'll never wear them again. At least I can look forward to doing it again when we have another baby. I don't know how you mamas that are done can deal with the end of another stage, knowing you'll never do it again. I'm having a hard enough time dealing with the fact that I'll never do it again with her. It's a good thing that she's growing and she's a happy, independent little girl. That is what's supposed to happen, I know that. But it's still sad.

On another note, I've been discussing with DH about buying another house. We're getting really excited about TTC at the end of this summer, but I look around my tiny, two-bedroom house that has absolutely no storage... and I wonder how in the world we will fit another baby in. The plan has always been to wait for his promotion, save for 4-5 years and put a down payment on land in the country where we'll build. But, that promotion is at least another year away, and I just can't see having two small children (possibly a 3rd by then) in this tiny house while working to build another. So, we're talking about making that a 10-12 year plan rather than a 5-6 year plan and get another place in the meantime.

I'm definitely more okay with it than he is, but he is warming up to it. Instead of saying no, he's saying we'll see. I looked at a place in the next town over (population about 200, most of which is age 75 and over). Which is totally fine with us, it's like the next best thing to living in the country. And our best friends live just a block away from the house! It's an old farmhouse with a huge backyard that is up against a cornfield. There's a blackberry patch and wide open spaces. And it's the kind of town where my kids could actually run free without me having to worry about strangers and too many cars. I'm really hoping DH goes for it.


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## justKate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
I'm definitely more okay with it than he is, but he is warming up to it. Instead of saying no, he's saying we'll see. I looked at a place in the next town over (population about 200, most of which is age 75 and over). Which is totally fine with us, it's like the next best thing to living in the country. And our best friends live just a block away from the house! It's an old farmhouse with a huge backyard that is up against a cornfield. There's a blackberry patch and wide open spaces. And it's the kind of town where my kids could actually run free without me having to worry about strangers and too many cars. I'm really hoping DH goes for it.

The farmhouse sounds nice to me. I've been thinking more about trying to get back to basics too. I think it would be good for Aubrey to not grow up in suburbia/city the way Huz and I did. Maybe *gasp* have some chickens or something. This year (the first year in several) I planted again: tomatoes, jalepenos, serrano peppers, green beans, banana peppers, basil and cilantro. It feels good. Not nearly as much as I'd like to do, but these things I know I can keep alive. It would be good to have some free range kiddos, too....


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## mckittre

Starling - I can't imagine what that family must be going through. I came here planning to gripe about how I couldn't get Katmai to sleep until nearly 1AM last night - but that seems kind of silly now.

Mal - that sounds nice. One thing I'm definitely looking forward to about living here as Katmai gets older is that all the kids are free-range. And wherever they go, someone knows their parents, so they can't get into too much trouble, either.


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## AKislandgirl

I would love to live in an old farm house some day! I think if my family was close by we would live here forever but I think we'll be down south within 3 years. I'm just hoping that we can find a community as close knit as we have now. I just really want my kids growing up really knowing their grandparents, not just seeing them once a year. My sister lives next door to my folks. They have a small farm on Whidbey Island in Washington. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to move there but there are no jobs for DH on island and commuting into Seattle just sounds horrid. Maybe we can become independently wealthy!


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## Everrgreen

justKate - I hope everything works out with Aubrey's appt. And that's great about your VBAC potential. I also have some lingering questions about things that happened at my birth. Mostly stuff there probably isn't a definite answer about.

Mal - I know what you mean, while Royce isn't as independent yet as you describe Owyn to be, every little milestone is so bittersweet. He has really started to shake his head to tell me 'no' to things. 'Do you want to hold Mama's hand?' *NO*, 'Do you need to nurse with Mama?' *NO* 'Do you want to come have a hug?' *NO* What happened to my little baby who never said no to these things?? I think also though that you (and I) are coming from a place of not being 'done' yet with having babies. I feel that once I reach that point of knowing my family is complete, it won't be so sad.

Your farmhouse in the small town (can 200 people be called a town?) sounds perfect! I would totally love something like that... maybe just outside of a bigger city though









Sooo, as for me. My husband and I have started to talk about things. And I'm thinking that maybe... possibly... hopefully... there is some sort of a chance that we may work things out. There has been so much going on, and I'm a little unsure of it all. But, he is showing signs of changing (back into who he used to be - the person I fell in love with), and he is apologizing for things, and he is telling me that he wants to do better. I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much. It's complicated but I really want it to work. So, yeah, we'll see...


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## Vegan Princess

Oh Gillian, I really truly hope that you can find a happy conclusion with your DH!! You have shown already that you are a strong, strong woman and I know that you will be fine and Royce will flourish no matter how the story ends...but it truly would be a blessing to have the man you fell in love with by your side on this journey once again. I'll be praying for you!

Justkate: I'm so glad that a VBAC is a possibility! Yay!

As for me, 33 days since my IUD was removed and no sign of ovulation or a period. I e-mailed my dr today asking what's up and she said to give it another month and then call if I haven't had a period. So progress TTC yet. I'm fine with things taking their time, I just would really like my cycle back to know things are working properly! I do think I got a period before it was removed so I don't think it's the nursing.

As for the country house - DH and I talk about moving all the time. We live in a great little liberal, crunchy city across the bay from San Francisco and it's just a cute, fantastic place to be. But it is a bit urban still and we aren't sure this is what we want for our kids. Not to mention the cost of living is ridiculous here. $700k for a tiny 3 bedroom with a postage stamp yard. My husband did grow up in a farmhouse on 40 acres until he was 10 and it's a dream of ours (his especially) to have land to grow food and for the kids to build a play house and be able to run around.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Thanks for all your kind thoughts for our little buddy who passed away ... so hard. So very, very hard.
I keep thinking about how it must've been for his mama to hold him and say goodbye. I cannot imagine.
We'll be missing his celebration of life, as we're leaving for Costa Rica on Saturday morning.
We're looking forward to it, as it's been 18 months, one baby, three dog deaths, two career shifts, two books, and three moves since we've had a real holiday and what with all the upheaval, we're long overdue.
We're aiming for super minimalism. One big suitcase and one small one, one daypack, and my shoulder bag. An ergo carrier. That's it. Hopefully that's all we'll need. We're borrowing a carseat there. We're visiting my aunt and uncle who live there. We're also CD'ing for the trip, which should be interesting. Are we crazy?

*Gillian* ... the situation with your hubby sounds hopeful! How spring-like and verdant!

*justKate* ... it must be frustrating to wait when you want answers now. Hang in there, hon!

*Mal85* ... I can't believe how fast our little ones are growing up! I don't pine for more the same way you do, but I do miss the tiny baby Esmé was. She's so cool now, though, too!

*A life in the country* ... we had that. A lovely house, with a big yard, in a tiny little mountain town. We miss it very much. We moved for work, and to be closer to family. I love that we live in super crunchy urban village within the big city, but I do miss a lot about our old town. We lived there for three years, and before that we lived on a coastal penninsula only accessible by ferry. I love and miss the small town vibe, the slower pace, the simplicity, and the friends we made in both places, but I don't miss the lack of resources, and the incredibly insular nature of both communities.
When we moved back to the city, we had new friends and park friends and mama connections within weeks. It took ages to feel like we fit in rurally.

I could go on and on about this topic, but let me say that the grass isn't always greener in the green belt! But we do miss it, and long to get back to a small town life, despite the challenges it brought!

Gotta go! Esmé is stirring for her midnight boob binge!


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## Thursday Girl

midnight boob binge, lol. I like it.

*Mal*- I know what you mean, putting away the baby clothes is hard, it's hardest with Juiper b/c before I knew I would see them on another child of mine, now I am giving them away to people I hardly see at all. So evrytime I pack up the clothes I get a bit teary eyed, whereas when I was packing or unpacking them for my next daughter it was a happy occasion smiling at the memories of my little girls. BUT, I am so happy to be moving to the next stage in my life, there is an overwhelming feeling that it's time to move on and work on my new goals as the new me. It's an adventure I am looking forward to, a tep I am ready to take, and one I never could have taken before Juniper. I am a little sad that when it finally becomes time for my sisters to have their kids I won't be doing it with them because we had always wanted to be pregnant together. But it will also be cool that when Junes is 18 and moving out of the house I will only be 45.

*Gillian*- I am so excited that things with your husband are moving in a positive direction.

*justKate*-I am so glad they stictched you up properly. Have you visited I-Can? or whatever it's called. My friend had 2 vba2c, and credits what she learned there with her success. (I also credit her super strong personality)

COUNTRY LIVING- how funny that country living/neighborhoods and future kids are the topics up for discussion on our board as they are exactly what we talked about in the social part of LLL yesterday.

We struggle with this. We are in a little urban community that is sort of a haven in Tampa. It's historic, filled with trees, decent sized yards, a lot of things close by, family events that are usually free, a nice little neighborhood market with all sorts of amazing proucts, handmade, hand grown, etc. Extracurricular activities for the kids at a reasonable price, they are in an amazing private school that we barter for their tuition and it goes from pre-school to 12th grade. We have an amazing group of friends, and we did have family, but two of my sisters have moved now.
The thing is we kind of long for the country life, a nice farm with a large garden, cows, pigs, goats the whole bit. Woods for the kids to run in, build forts in. Storage in the house. LOL. (we live in a 1928 bungalow, low on storage) BUT I don't want to give up their school, and I really like the resources available, the cultural experiences I can give them. Our compromise for the time being is a garden in the backyard, 6 chickens as well. From here I don't know where we will go. We have an amazingly cheap mortgage thanks to my MIL buying the house originally before the market and it's giant bubble, she was nice enough to sell it to us for what she paid. My husband planted all sorts of fruit trees and berry bushes in the front yard, so we are kind of making our own little urban homestead.

HOUSE, Small- Mal you would be surprised what you can fit in a house. We DO have a 3 bedroom, but one of them is being used as storage and has been for years. It was our "indoor shed", serisouly. It had tools and an air compressor, and all sorts of shed type things in it. So we esentially lived in a 2 bedroom house with the 2 girls, and it was okay, a bit cramped but totally doable. The girls shared a room. It was when we added baby #3 that it got insane. (we are now working on redoing the back "storage room" since it has some issues with structure and such. Once that is done we will move into it, and our room will be a play room, then all THREE girls will share a room that is only a sleeping and dressing room. ) So if it is 1-2 years for a promotion you might be able to make it work and get your dream house sooner rather than later. You just have to get creative with layout and such. Plus, I don't know how the market is where you are but here it's going to be low for a year or so longer, maybe 3 before it totally stabalizes. We have found 5 acres for super cheap and were actually tempted to buy it now for the amazing price and hold onto it for a time when we were ready to move out and build our own place. Unfortunately, even at the great price we aren't in a position finacially to do it.

(gosh, sorry for being so wordy.)


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## AKislandgirl

small House: yes, we too have a small 2 bedroom 1 bath house and think we'll make it work for us as long as we live here in Kodiak. What I was going to tell you though is that my sister lives in a 1 bedroom cabin with 5 of her 8 kids! Her 2 oldest are out of the house now and 1 boy has a room at folks house next door. They are building a bigger house but have been building it for years. You can make do if you want to hold out for your dream house!









Starling: Have a wonderful trip!!! Relax and enjoy the sun. And I don't think you are crazy to travel with cloth at all! Have fun!! (and take me with you!)


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## Thursday Girl

oh yeah, we have totally travelled with cloth, on a number of occasons.

my crazy friends lived in the tiniest 2 bedroom house (that they turned into a 3 bedroom by mkaing 2 of the smallest rooms you have ever seen) with 3 kids all close in age for the entire 20 years they had the kids at home. when I think of them doing that it always makes my house a little easier to deal with. LOL


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## justKate

Re. small spaces--no complaints right now, as we went from a tiny 2-bedroom condo in FL to a decent size 3-bedroom house in TX this year. I've been thinking a lot about minimizing lately, and started posting stuff on ebay just to clear it out. I posted the rest of Aub's clothes that still had the tags, and some Minnie Mouse stuff that I just don't see myself putting her into. Not sure where we'll be living in 18 mos., so we may have more or less space. Hopefully wherever it is we can have chickens, 'cause I'm getting kind of obsessed with fresh eggs...they sell them at our little hardware store and Huz and I are ADDICTED.

Gillian, maybe this was your Huz' quarter (mid?) life crisis. I really hope that things work out the way you want them to. If I were in your situation I would be handling things exactly the same way. I think that you're showing Royce (and all of us!) that you are very strong.

Cindy, that's frustrating about the lack of a period. I'm ready for mine to come back too. Of course Huz keeps reminding me that I would have to pretend to like him to get pg anyway....







But I'd just like to know that it's an option when I'm ready.

Mal, it's so hard to look at Aubrey and think "little girl" instead of "little baby." After every bath I pick her up and cradle her in a towel in front of the bathroom mirror and "play baby" with her. "Look at mama's little baby...so tiny!" And kiss all over her face and rock her as her long legs and big feet smack the coutnertop. I'm going to keep doing it until she makes me stop. Hopefully that won't happen for a LONG while.

Starling, I hope you guys have TONS of fun in Costa Rica. The weather should be beautiful. Try to see some monkeys for me! Do you have anything specific planned, or are you just going to try to relax?

Okay now I need to actually pretend to work instead of playing on the internet. Three hours to go until my WEEKEND begins!


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thursday Girl* 
We struggle with this. We are in a little urban community that is sort of a haven in Tampa. It's historic, filled with trees, decent sized yards, a lot of things close by, family events that are usually free, a nice little neighborhood market with all sorts of amazing proucts, handmade, hand grown, etc. Extracurricular activities for the kids at a reasonable price, they are in an amazing private school that we barter for their tuition and it goes from pre-school to 12th grade. We have an amazing group of friends, and we did have family, but two of my sisters have moved now.
The thing is we kind of long for the country life, a nice farm with a large garden, cows, pigs, goats the whole bit. Woods for the kids to run in, build forts in. Storage in the house. LOL. (we live in a 1928 bungalow, low on storage) BUT I don't want to give up their school, and I really like the resources available, the cultural experiences I can give them.

Exactly, absolutely exactly. I don't think I would be happy living in between, say, in a suburb or outlying part of the city. Where we live is a arty funky neighbourhood, with lots of other two-mama families, lots of free or nearly free activities, good parks, lots of alternative schooling options, a big home schooling community, great produce and organic products, and my sister lives three doors away from us. Take away all that good stuff, and I would not be a happy camper.

We would LOVE to get into a co-op here so we could sell our expensive condo and save some money, and then buy a small piece of land with a cabin on it for weekend and holiday fun. Big dreams! I love 'em!


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## mckittre

*Gillian* - How exciting! Crossing my fingers for you that it works out how you hope. But whatever happens, I'm sure you'll make it work out.

Speaking of small spaces - we fit the three of us pretty well into just one room! And I know folks here in AK who've raised bigger families in smaller cabins. With a little creativity (and preferably some kind of shed or outdoor storage space), it can work well.

My husband and I aren't sure whether we'll have another or not, and are mostly leaning towards just one. Either way, I pack up Katmai's clothes and toys as soon as he grows out of them and pass them along to the next kid in town (or sometimes to the Salvation Army - we have a glut of baby clothes in town). I got all of his as hand-me-downs anyway, and I figure if we have another one eventually, someone else will have clothes they're trying to get rid of. With a one-room house, I can't afford to be sentimental about those kind of things! But I haven't yet had that kind of baby nostalgia, really. I just think my little guy gets more and more interesting and fun as he gets older.


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## Everrgreen

Happy Mother's Day Everyone!!!!









I am spending the day with my own mother and of course my sweet baby boy







We will be having a pretty relaxing day with a nice dinner out later. And then probably early to bed as my little one had me up at 6:30 this morning which is waaaaayyyyy too early for me!


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## Vegan Princess

LOL Gillian - my little one slept until 6:30 and we thought that was a blessing!

Happy mother's day! My mom flew in yesterday. We always spend the day together. Makenna is obsessed with her. She will quit nursing or turn down nursing even to go be in the other room with her Grandma. My mom and I spent the day together yesterday alone and went to high tea and browsed some bookstores that we always want to linger in but can't with a baby. Today we are going out to brunch and then to walk around some rose gardens. Not sure what else.

I hope everyone else enjoys their day! I bet Starling is having a great day in Costa!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Happy Mothers Day! I would love to be spending the day with my own mother but I've had a fantastic day so far!

I got to sleep in till 8:30 this morning. Then DH brought me coffee in bed!







We went to our favorite restaurant for breakfast then took the dogs swimming at the beach. Fiona threw rocks in the water while the dogs chased sticks. It is a gorgeous sunny day here! I also got a gift certificate for a one hour massage. I can't wait to redeem it!!!


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## Everrgreen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
LOL Gillian - my little one slept until 6:30 and we thought that was a blessing!









Yes, I guess in the world of toddlers 6:30 isn't so bad! He was up at 6 this morning, but I managed to get him to doze a bit longer until 6:30. BUT, he has just figured out how to slide off the bed without my help, so I'm hoping that maybe he will be content to play in the room for a bit to give me more time dozing


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## Everrgreen

I'm back in an attempt to remain sane at this moment. Royce, got me up at the crack of dawn, only to be a fussy tired whiny little boy all morning and I am going to lose my mind!! Why does he wake up so early if he's just going to be tired and cranky?!??! I am seriously thinking we are going to have to go back to 2 naps/day if he keeps this up. Which I really don't want to do because it's a real pain! UGHHHH So frustrated!!

Okay, and now I better go and see if he'll take a nap. And then worry about the looooooong afternoon ahead of me if he won't take another later


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## Mal85

Oh, Gillian, I hear ya. On those days, I do make Owyn take two naps. It usually means she has a much later afternoon nap, sleeping until around 5-5:30 and is up later that night. But, staying up later makes her sleep in a little later the next day and hopefully gets us back on track.

We had a great Mother's Day here. Owyn gave me the gift of sleeping until almost 9:00! It was great to sleep in. Of course, she does sleep in on the one morning her dad is supposed to get up with her, lol! We went to church in the morning, then DH took us out to lunch. Owyn really loves eating at restaurants right now. She feels so big sitting up to the table and "using" the silverware to eat. So funny watching her!


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## Thursday Girl

glad you had good mothers dayd. gillian sirry royce was cranky, those days can be sooo hard.

we picked breakfast up at a resturant and took it to my mom, then picked Jewel up from her girl scout camping trip. went to a beach/park for a picnic. then back home, dh had to work at the girls school o my sister and i went to run some errands w/ the girls. it was a nice day.


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## mckittre

And here I am trying to drag Katmai out of his sleepy morning nursing to get up at 8:30! Of course the flip side to that is that I've been having trouble getting him to sleep before 10. One day I let him take a late afternoon nap (4:15-5:45 or so, but it was his only nap) and he was up until 1AM!

We had a good mother's day here. Breakfast at the restaurant with Katmai, husband, and mother-in-law, then all day outside in the sun, doing various yard chores. Including planting my first seeds in the ground this year (yay!), and impatiently shoveling snow off other parts of the garden. It's been gorgeous and warm and sunny lately (and the sun doesn't set until 10:30 or so), so we've been outside all the time. Katmai loves it.

I did make the mistake the other day when he was fussy of parking Katmai in front of some YouTube videos of horses and cats for a bit. Now every time he sees my computer he signs "horse" or "cat" and fusses to see more! Oops. I didn't realize a video addiction could come on so quickly.

Katmai's favorite "joke" lately is a conversation that goes something like this: Katmai: (signs stars). Me: "where are the stars?" Katmai: (signs stars all-gone). Repeat with any other objects that aren't immediately visible. After "all-gone" his favorite word/sign is "big", and he's constantly calling everything big.


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## Nillarilla

I'm at my breaking point I think. I just finished my set at work (4 12hr shifts) and Delia had me up at 445 each of those mornings. Then last night she was up all night vomiting and diarrhea. My whole house smells nasty. I'm so exhausted I can't really function and my house is a disaster zone. I want to clean and sanitize but I'm so tired. No chance for a nap either since my boy isn't sick and he's refusing to be quiet or sit quietly. I am pretty sure he will have it by this evening and be up all night and Delia will be sleeping and then Dh and I will get it and they will be fine. It always seems to go that way. I've got to find a way to boost dd's immune system. She gets over the illness quickly but she catches everything. She's not vaxed, still bf'ed, gets Vit. D & C. Not much for probiotics though maybe I need to add those in? I'm counting down the hours until dh gets home. I think we are going to have chicken and rice soup for dinner and maybe I'll make some millet biscuits if I dd will stop crying long enough. My ergo is in the car... My dh has the car at work







. Sorry to be a big whiner. Just had to let that out.
*
Country living* I like living in a city but not too big of a city. I live on a double lot with a mini orchard we have plum tree, crabapple, cherry, fall apple, currants, raspberry bushes, strawberries, blueberries and hazelnuts. I plant in a square foot garden and I make enough for us to eat and to preserve. I guess we do have a little urban homestead. No chickens though but my bf has a farm with chickens so I buy the eggs from her. She's got a cow now too so we may be getting milk and making cheese from her as well.


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## justKate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 
Katmai's favorite "joke" lately is a conversation that goes something like this: Katmai: (signs stars). Me: "where are the stars?" Katmai: (signs stars all-gone). Repeat with any other objects that aren't immediately visible. After "all-gone" his favorite word/sign is "big", and he's constantly calling everything big.

That's neat that he can put sentences together! The only time Aubs signs in sentances is when she just runs through all of her signs trying to find something that will work. She has started signing "please" to nurse more, which is irresistable. I pop her off and say all done, then she makes the whimper face and signs please. Who could say no to that?


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## Everrgreen

Nilla - Huge







s I'm sorry you are having a rough day. I hope your little one feels better soon!

mckittre - wow! Katmai's signing sounds impressive! I've been working on signing with Royce for months now and he's just not interested. He will sign 'milk' while he's nursing, he will sign 'eat/food' while we're reading the hungry caterpillar (and ONLY then, which is funny because I have never used that sign while reading, he did it on his own), and he has sort of signed a few different animals just once copying me. That's it, and I've been using a bunch of other signs. I really wish he would sign more because he also isn't talking. And of course his lack of communication (signing and verbal) has me worried


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## Nillarilla

Gillian have you tried showing Royce signs when he really wants something? For instance if he brings you something to open you say "Oh you'd like this open?" and sign open. I find my kids will only pick up the signs they find 'useful'. Like they always had more than enough on their plates so they never really signed for 'more'.
Also does he understand you. Like if I say "do you want booby?" My dd will immediately spit out her soother and say "aaaahh". Or if I ask if she wants up she'll raise her arms. So I know that she understands what I'm saying. My ds didn't talk until 20mos. He did sign for a lot of things but that didn't really take off until about 15mos. I always knew he understood me though so I wasn't really concerned. When he did start talking though he was articulate for his age and even now he's ahead of his peers in the language department.


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## mckittre

Nilla - sounds tough! I will send healing thoughts your way.

Gillian - don't worry! (I know it's hard not to worry). I think so much of this developmental timing stuff just comes down to personality quirks, and what kids are focusing on at any given time. If he can understand, I'm sure he's doing fine.

It is really fun to see Katmai's little "sentences" - a bit of a window into how he's thinking. Katmai's turned into kind of a poster child for sign language (I think he knows around 75 signs, and is getting more and more into the 2-word phrases). But a lot of that is because he's really really into labeling things, and doesn't have nearly enough sounds to say them. Half his language isn't useful - he just absolutely loves to make all-gone jokes, to point out everything he sees, and to label pictures of donkeys and kangaroos and bugs and spiders and airplanes and clouds.... He's driven to learn them. On the other hand, he spent literally 3 months standing before he bothered to even try to walk.

It is kind of funny though, because it seems like it's our secret language sometimes. I'm the one who taught him all the signs, and so I know how he mispronounces them, and which ones he knows, and which sound effects he does with them, so I have to translate for everyone else.


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## Everrgreen

Yes, I usually show him signs when he has shown an interest in something/wants something. He points and goes 'ah' at the food cupboards in the kitchen when he wants food. I will say 'are you hungry? do you want something to eat?' while signing and he just keeps pointing. He does know some of the signs though, so I guess that's good. And he understands some other verbal language - bath, ball, outside, book etc. Things that interest him









Royce is really into pointing at things, but he says something that sounds like 'duck/dog', I'm not sure if maybe it's supposed to be 'look' or 'that'. I try and give him the appropriate word and really sound out the different sounds. I guess he'll figure it out eventually.

In exciting news - Royce and I slept in until 7:41am this morning







And Royce's nightwakings have decreased I think. I'm usually half asleep during them anyway, so it's hard to remember, but I think we're down to only 2-3 and those are only in the early morning hours.


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## Mal85

I've been a little concerned about Owyn's lack of communication as well. She does understand some things and responds appropriately to me when I talk to her or ask her questions (short of course), but she doesn't say much and doesn't always seem to understand me.

I did sit down and think about all the different things she says though and she does have quite a few words. Here's her list: Hi!, shoes, mama, dada, what's this (no one else recognizes what's this other than DH and I, it's rough but that is what she means, DH says it sounds more like "Oh sh*t", so that's good for a laugh). She also says Wee! (meaning swing). She also has several sounds she makes consistently, I just haven't figured out what they mean yet.

She is VERY into music and dancing lately. She gets so mad at us if we turn the music off. She really doesn't care what kind of music as long as it has a good beat. I am a big lover of folk music, but she's not a fan so far. She likes things that are a little faster, good for dancing!

I can't wait to take her camping. It's coming up in a couple of weeks and it will be non-stop live music for 3 days. She will love it! I'm bummed that the band I really want to see isn't playing until after midnight one night. I'm not sure what to expect from her sleeping schedule that weekend, I'm guessing there won't be much of a schedule more like pass out when she's good and tired. I'm just hoping we'll get to enjoy all the shows. If she's not handling it well, DH and I can always take turns. I'm really hoping she can sleep in the Beco, that way we can still enjoy the shows and she'll still get to sleep when she needs to.


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## AKislandgirl

Hugs Nilla! Hope you are feeling more rested and healthy at your house!

Gillian, I love that you got to sleep till 7:41 (not 7:40!) That made me smile!









I took Fiona to a playgroup today. An hour with 3 other littles her age. Really its the only time she's played with kids her age since the daycare kids are older. They had a lot of blinky plastic loud toys which she wasn't so sure about. God, I hate toys like that. It was such a contrast to our house but its only an hour.







The idea is to get together with these moms and kids once a week. We'll rotate houses. I'm thrilled to have a chance to visit with other moms!

Fiona has been working on her canine teeth for what seems like 2 months! They have finally broken through her gums. All 4 at once! Goodness I'm glad to be on this side of it. Teething is hard work on everyone! She usually is feeling back to her old happy self within a couple days of a tooth breaking through. Since they all came at once at least we don't have to spread that out.


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## Vegan Princess

Nilla: Wow - sounds like a doozy! I hope your little one and your house are on the mend and that everyone else stays healthy.

AKIsland: Yay for playgroups! I would go crazy without mine.

My mom just left. Makenna has been walking around looking for and and asking for her. I so wish I lived in the same city as my family!!!

Makenna's language is blowing my mind. She says almost everything! She'll repeat almost anything. Today she learned "face" and "lip". She is still picking up signs and she still uses a lot but she usually says the word along with whatever she signs now. It is helpful bc sometimes her words sound similar so it helps us know for sure what she means. At sign language class yesterday she literally didn't stop talkng the entire time! But mostly said the same 3 words over and over. My mom had me check my baby book and I was repeating everything by 14 months...so the early language is probably genetic. Just like I have friends that walked at 9 months and their little ones do too. My cousin's son is 2 months older and doesn't say anything. Makenna is talking more than all but 1 baby in her playgroup so for those with babies that aren't saying much, I really wouldn't worry about it at all.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

mal I didn't see your question about the camping. Junie did great! She just sort of wandered around the sight and followed after her sisters. we have been going camping twice a year since Jewel was 9 months and have NEVER had a problem. Sometimes we bring a wagon and after they fall asleep set tblankets in and just pull them from spot to spot but you're going to a bigger event so that probably wouldn't work.

My dh is getting ready to go out of town for a week. It is going to really suck. Then my 7 year old dd(Jewel) leaves for a week and that is going to be quiet.


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## Thursday Girl

quiet in a bad way.


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## Everrgreen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Gillian, I love that you got to sleep till 7:41 (not 7:40!) That made me smile!

















Every minute counts







And I really do check the clock as soon as we wake up to see how we did!

Royce signed 'more' to me tonight, that's the first time he's done that one! And he signed 'eat' again reading another book with food in it (I find it very amusing that he will sign 'eat' for food in books but not food in real life). Still waiting for him to start saying words that don't sound like 'dog/duck'.


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## Nillarilla

Well Delia's on the mend. So far no one else has it fingers crossed. However she slept last night and the my ds had a severe asthma attack. Or at least that's what we think it was. He's had some irritation and coughing the last week mostly after going outside. Last night he played outside before bed and then at about 1am I heard him freaking out and wheezing and coughing. He was using all his chest muscles, retracting around the sternum, sharp wheezing, laboured and fast breathing. It was very scary. I almost took him to the ER but then it he settled. We went in the bathroom with hot steam and then he couldn't stand it in there so we went outside. I gave him rescue remedy. DH sat with him breathing slowly and then I put on the tv as a distraction and made dh go get some coca cola since I know caffiene can help. So he watched tv and drank coke in the middle of the night







. But it worked. I can't get him to the doctor until tommorow so I got some arsenicum album and a few different essential oils. He had a bath tonight with some of them and some epsom salts. Fingers crossed it doesn't happen again. Oh how I wish I had some ventolin. Well that was long and totally about the wrong kid. Thanks for listening ladies.
Delia still isn't walking and she really doesn't seem to want to. It's so frustrating that she doesn't even try. I am kind of concerned that she's been set back by how often she's been sick.
We are seriously considering moving. The air quality in our city is really bad and I think the kids health would improve if we were to move.
Anyone else have a dirt eater? Cordelia licks the dirt off of the shovels and spoons it into her mouth when we are gardening.


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## mckittre

Nilla - glad both your kids are feeling better. The illnesses sound like a problem, but not trying to walk could just be a personality thing. Katmai didn't try until he knew he could pretty much do it.

Gillian - that's awesome. "more" was the first sign Katmai used too. The real explosion happened about a month and a half after those first few signs, so keep with it. Many of his words still sound like "da" or "moo"

Cindy - wow, "lip" and "face" sound like pretty hard ones to say! Katmai can do "eye" and "knee", but the rest of the body parts are beyond his articulation skills. He "talks" while he signs a lot of the time as well, but for the most part they're more sound effects than words (like "sssccchhhh" for ocean or "yaa yaa" for fire)

We're still having trouble with nap/sleep schedules around here. Yesterday he wouldn't nap until 3:30PM, and then was up until midnight! I'm not sure what to do about that. I try to get him to nap earlier, but sometimes he won't. Late naps keep him up until 12 or 1AM. But he's not ready to go totally without a nap either. He seems to wake up at 8:30AM regardless of when he went to sleep, so when he goes to bed too late, it's a problem.


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## Everrgreen

mckittre - that's rough! I have to struggle to keep Royce up until at least 11am or 12pm for his nap and then also to him up until 8pm for bedtime! He always seems tired (and therefore cranky). It must be hard to have a decent sleep routine with all the daylight you get this time of year. If he won't start his nap until later, what about waking him after only an hour?

nilla - I'm glad Delia is feeling better. How scary about your son though! I can't imagine having to deal with something like that. It sounds like you handled it well though! I'm glad he's feeling better too!
I'm not sure about the walking, I think it's still normal to not be doing it yet. Does she creep along furniture? Royce only took his first steps a month and a half ago (he was 14 months).
And, sorry, no dirt eating here







Actually if Royce falls outside he will cry for me to help him up to standing because he doesn't want to put his hands in the grass or dirt or whatever else is outdoors







It's pretty funny.

thursday - I'm glad your camping went well! I would love to go camping with Royce, but I think we'll stick to day trips this year.

mal - I hope you guys have a great time on your trip! Hopefully Owyn will do well
 








Sooo, just wondering how all you ttc-ers are doing? I didn't know if any of you were hoping to concieve this month for another February baby


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## Mal85

Owyn eats some dirt too. Mostly by accident thought. She's actually aiming to eat rocks and wood chips.







The girl puts everything in her mouth!

DH and I are still waiting until the end of the summer before we start TTC. Our camping trip is kinda special though. We were at the same festival when Owyn was conceived. Now, two years later, we're taking her there!


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## alaskaberry

Nilla--don't worry, some kids don't walk til 18 months! As for the dirt thing, probably needs some more vitamins in her diet...or it could be that she likes the texture.

VP--wow! That's awesome!

Thursday--Sounds like it was a good trip.









Mal--I bet the festival will be fine.

Tucker is doing well. Lately his thing is taking my shoes off and putting them on himself. He's still not talking...just baby babble--but ds1 didn't talk til he was 2, so I'm not worried. We are also going to a music festival (only this one is just one day, with music/art/etc all day long), on Saturday. Pretty exciting for the kids! I'll probably wear Tucker in the Moby and put all the food, etc in my backpack. Hopefully it won't rain!


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## Thursday Girl

mal- that's pretty awesome

alaskaberry- have fun.

my first day with Hubby working out of town was fine except I can't fall aslep. The girls were wailing that they wanted their daddy. He usually puts them to bed. luckily tomorrow night we can skype him.


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## Jen1409

Can I join ya'll since I don't see a Jan 09 thread? My LO was born Jan 4 2009


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## justKate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jen1409* 
Can I join ya'll since I don't see a Jan 09 thread? My LO was born Jan 4 2009

Of course!


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## Nillarilla

Cordelia is still uke. Gillian and Thursday when your LO's had those nasty stomach bugs how long did they last? I'm worried but I don't really know why. She's not dehydrated just tired and so she's napping more than usual and she cries hard after vomiting but stops quickly. I guess what I really want is someone to tell me she is fine and this is normal and it will stop in such and such a time.

We went outside today since I thought if she vomited out there I could just hose it off. I planted a little more and will hopefully plant a little more tommorow.

The doc didn't think my ds's breathing issues were asthma just seasonal allergies and croup. Since his cough is getting a little junkier I figure she's probably right. I probably overreacted since my brother had really bad asthma and spent every april until he was 9 in the hospital.

Camping sounds awesome. We hope to go soon.

Fingers crossed for all those ttc.

Gillian I think I forgot to mention before but my thoughts are with you and your husband. I really hope it works out for you the way you want it to.


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## Everrgreen

Nilla - He first got sick Sunday in the middle of the night, was sick all day Monday and through most of Monday night. Then was 'recovering' Tuesday. Seemed fine Wednesday and Thursday, but then Thursday in the middle of the night he was sick 2 more times. Then for the rest of the weekend I kept things calm and only fed him bland B.R.A.T. food, and he was fine. I think for Royce (and other LO's) that it can take their stomach's a while to recover, and too much activity or the wrong food can upset them again. How long has she been sick for? I was so worried when Royce was sick, so I completely understand - it is the worst feeling in the world!









Jen - Of course you're welcome!! I have a January babe too


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## Nillarilla

She got sick on Sunday afternoon was sick all day monday then better on Tuesday, then sick again wednesday evening and today. She's really not taking in much and is mildly dehydrated now so I've started giving water with a little salt and sugar in it in a little medicine syringe every 15 minutes.


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## Vegan Princess

Oh Nilla - big hugs! I had to do the water in a dropper thing when Makenna was sick and wouldn't drink from a bottle or cup and wasn't sucking much while nursing. It was awful! I hope she is better soon!! What a week you've had!

Cindy


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## mckittre

Nilla - best wishes she gets better soon!

I cannot cannot figure a sleep schedule that works for Katmai. Two nights ago, he napped too late and was up until midnight. The next day he was exhausted, but barely napped, so he went to bed at 6:30. Today I thought I might have got it right - got him to nap between 1 and 3PM. But now it's 10PM (still light) and he won't go to sleep! I can't figure out any sort of schedule that reliably works, which means I feel like I spend half my day trying to get him to sleep. And the only way he falls asleep pretty much is nursing, so I can't even get my husband to help. I'd like to start changing that, but I don't know how, and it seems unlikely to work if I can't even get him to sleep myself.


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## AKislandgirl

Fiona likes to eat dirt too! Nice big handfulls from the garden!









She and the kids are busily coloring right now. She loves to use crayons. She'll pull them off the shelf and say "color color" until I get her set up. I usually tape paper down for her and let her go to town. It's fun! I'm excited thinking about moving on to painting and other crafts with her since I love that stuff!

Re Walking: I didn't walk until I was about 16 or 17 months. I think we are still within the normal range for walking.

Gotta run! Happy Friday!!


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## Mal85

Back the the Motrin thing... the number on our bottle didn't match the number in the recall, but I still feel wrong giving it to her, so I haven't. I figured there may be more recalls to come. Last night, she was in a lot of pain, molars are starting to break through. So, I sent DH to the store to get the generic stuff and he couldn't find anything generic for babies under 2. So, what exactly are you guys using? I ended up just doing Oragel and giving her some ice to suck on in a mesh feeder. It did help her and she eventually went to sleep and stayed asleep all night. If that continues to help her settle, that's good enough for me, but I'd still like to know what I can give her.

Anyway, we had a pretty good day around here today. It was rainy, which normally sucks. But DH is usually working out in the yard on Saturdays, so it was nice to have a day spending time together as a whole family. We went to breakfast this morning, went car shopping (getting some ideas, looking to buy a car next year), cleaned up the house while Owyn napped, then went to a nearby nursery to get some new plants for the front yard. I feel like it was a leisurely day, but we still got quite a bit accomplished. I love days like that! Now, Owyn is spending the evening with her grandma. FIL is out of town this weekend, so she asked to have her just to keep her company. I think we'll go out with some friends.

Today is a close friend's due date and still no signs of baby. Send her labor woo please!

How early can you tell if your LO is left or right-handed? I've noticed Owyn uses her left hand a lot more lately. If I put a fork or crayon in her right hand, she'll move it to her left hand. It's probably too early to tell, but I am curious.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: We bought baby advil. DIfferent company than motrin so hopefully ok. As for the hands, Makenna still uses both but she is starting to favor her right so I think she will be right handed. Glad you had a nice day! Jealous that your little one is off w/Grandma!

Gillian: You asked for a TTC update. I got my IUD out 40 days ago and still have not ovulated or gotten a period. It can sometimes take this long for a period to come back after mirena. But I am wondering if in my case it is bc DD still nurses so often? I have no idea. It might also be bc I stopped the domperidone a month ago - perhaps it takes a little longer for fertility to come back after that. I hear 6 weeks a lot for fertility to return after dom. Anyway, I may end up having to reduce nursing in order to conceive. I'm not in a hurry to wean so maybe my babies will end up with a bigger spacing than I anticipated. I might night wean next weekend when DH is out of town. Not sure if I'm brave enough to try or not! LOL! Today I told DD no when she wanted to nurse 15 minutes after she just did and she had a full meltdown and it took both me and DH singing and dancing w/elmo to cheer her up. So cutting down nursing or nightweaning is going to be super hard, I think!! Like I said, not ready to wean, but I would be happy to nurse less since sometimes it is every hour! Sorry for the novel!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Mal:
As for teething - I have used just homeopathic stuff (hylands teething tablets and Camilia teething liquid), he also wears an amber necklace. And so far he has handled all of his teething really well. Maybe he's just a good teether, right now his molars are coming in (I think 3 have broken through recently) and he still is doing really well!

As for right/left handedness - I think Royce is right handed, he definitely favours that hand. I'm not sure at what age you can really tell for sure.

And - I have a friend who is 37 weeks right now! I'm on call to attend her birth and I am SO excited! I keep expecting her to call in the middle of the night. Hopefully she'll go into labour during the day









Glad you had a productive day!!

mckittre - is he tired but just won't fall asleep? Or is he fine? Maybe he just needs less sleep than the average babe? I don't really know what to tell you, but I imagine the daylight must be throwing him off. Can you try and have an activity filled morning, with lots of outdoor time to really tire him out? Royce naps SO much better when we've had a busy morning. I will time it to get home no earlier than 11am and he will nurse and crash. Have you read the No Cry Sleep Solution? I haven't completely 'solved' Royce's sleep, but the book does have lots of tips. Our routine sort of developed slowly over time, a bit of Royce falling into a pattern himself and a bit of me fine-tuning his pattern and adding a bedtime routine. It's working really well for us.

And, speaking of sleep - Royce is (sort of) sleeping through the night







And by that I mean he is doing a solid 6 hour chunk almost every night! I didn't even really notice it at first, but then I all of a sudden realized that he wasn't waking to nurse until 2-3am pretty consistently. Then he will do another 2-3 hour chunk (until 5am-ish), followed by a horribly restless 1-2 hours







We need to work on that last part!

Is anyone else totally loving toddlerhood?? I love that he can communicate with me what he wants (through gestures and 'showing me'), I love that I can communicate to him and he UNDERSTANDS me, I love that he can WALK (seriously, this has made my life SO much easier, despite all the warnings I got from people







), and I love seeing his personality blossom and watching him play and have fun







Oh, and I love that I can hand him toys in the car and then he will be happy and not cry


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - I would definitely say the bf-ing would impact your cycles. My cycles returned at 9 months pp and they still aren't regular (they were for a few months, but then they stopped, I just got af a couple weeks ago so we'll see what happens next). I am obviously not ttc right now, and I would actually prefer a bigger spacing (at least 3 years, but we'll see...) I sometimes say no to Royce for nursing. At night I will try and just roll him onto his belly and rub his back, but if he flips out I nurse. During the day I have said no (many times actually







) if he just nursed recently, or if we are out doing something (the other day we were in a super busy store and he wanted to nurse







so, yeah, that's a no). I guess that kind of goes against the whole 'don't offer' 'don't refuse' thing. But I do offer sometimes too, if he's fussy or if he hurts himself. So I guess that makes up for it









And also - why in the world would you do the night weaning when dh is out of town?? That's one of the benefits of having a dh









Ok, I think I outwrote your novel


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: LOL. Yeah I think you're right - I should nightwean when DH is here to help! I just know he can't stand hearing her cry at all. But I don't think I can deal with being up multiples nights in a row and not having anyone to help me during the day at all either or let me sleep in a little.


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## mckittre

Another 11PM bedtime. Though it's probably the fault of a late nap (didn't get home until 2PM, nap at 2:30). He does seem reasonably happy when he's up late. Just his parents are not. I do try to get him outside, but it's hard to have too busy a morning, since he's only up at 8-8:30 (the one consistent part of his schedule - I'm not messing with it).

Speaking of outside - anyone have waterproof soft shoes for their toddler? Katmai's are instantly soaked in puddles and mud.

Handedness - Watching Katmai use silverware, I'm pretty sure he's right handed.

Gillian - I do love this age as well. The walking is great because it means I can actually put him down outside while I'm doing chores and he can amuse himself by wandering around and throwing rocks. And with his signs and words and gestures, I feel like I can have whole little conversations with him. It's really fun to watch him becoming a little joker... All of the fun parts of toddlerhood, and not much of the bad (yet).

Jen1409 - welcome!


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## AKislandgirl

Mal: we bought generic infant drops. They say age 2-3 but we asked the pharmacist and he assured us it was the same as the tylenol.

Erin: We have soft star shoes. They keep her feet dry and I can roll them up in my hand they are so soft. They are not, however, good puddle jumping shoes!

We struggle with late bedtimes around here too. I think the daylight does play a role. Although I sometimes get her to bed early (8:30 is early for us), 10:00 is more normal. Usually she sleeps till 8:00 but lately she's been up at 6:30! Then she's grumpy because she hasn't slept long enough. I don't know. We put blinds in our room but it doesn't seem to be helping much. If we do a late nap like Katmai then we are easily up till midnight. I really try to avoid those late naps but you know how it goes, sometimes it can't be helped!

Communication is going great here. She understands everything! She's signing and talking more and more. She's really into make believe play. She'll pretend to go to bed by laying her head on a pillow and saying "night- night". She loves to be a puppy. She'll crawl around and pant and bark, its so cute! She also cooks us meals with her play food and brings it to us smaking her lips to indicate she wants us to pretend to eat it. I'm really loving this age!


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## Mal85

Toddlerhood is really fun here too! Owyn is such a funny kid. She loves to tease us and make us laugh. She sat on the couch next to me today just making funny faces at me to get me to laugh! I think she's really going to be a clown the older she gets. She also loves to pretend to talk on the phone. Anything that resembles a telephone goes straight to her ear, then she says "Hiiiii Dada!". She has also started singing recently. Whenever we're driving somewhere, she just sings to herself in the backseat. So adorable!

Her new favorite game is chasing. She'll run up to me and laugh, then run away and look behind her to see if I'm chasing after her. Once I come after her, she gets so excited she just throws herself on the floor in giggles.

She started running in the last week or so. She's been walking a long time, but she wasn't quite coordinated enough to run. She'd walk pretty fast and trip herself up. But now, she's really running! She has a xylophone she can pull behind her and it jingles. She runs all over the house pulling that thing behind her and laughing at herself.


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## Mal85

Oh yeah, *Cindy*, today I was at my cousin's high school graduation. There was a baby girl sitting in front of me and I kept thinking "Gosh, she looks so familiar". Then, it dawned on me, the little girl looked _exactly_ like photos you've shown of Makenna! She could have been her twin. So cute!


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## Vegan Princess

Oh wow Mal! 2 of my little girl? I don't think the world can handle that much cuteness! ;-) LOL!

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

akisland- Junes loves to color too, lately her thing is markers. she colors all over herself and all over things. It does NOT help that her sisters keep leaving markers all over the dang place.

handedness-Junes seems to favor her left hand, switching crayons and such over to her left. Her sisters always used there right hands, even at this age, so I think Mal thatyou and I justhave left handed girls


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## Thursday Girl

Junies new hobby


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## Vegan Princess

Thursdaygirl: Love the pic! She looks like such a big girl!!

Speaking of pics...and since Mal mentioned recalling Makenna's old pictures, I figured I'd post a recent pic. Maybe we all should...it's been at least a few months since we posted.









Makenna


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## mckittre

fun. Here's Katmai's latest hobby


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## Jen1409

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
Is anyone else totally loving toddlerhood?? I love that he can communicate with me what he wants (through gestures and 'showing me'), I love that I can communicate to him and he UNDERSTANDS me, I love that he can WALK (seriously, this has made my life SO much easier, despite all the warnings I got from people







), and I love seeing his personality blossom and watching him play and have fun







Oh, and I love that I can hand him toys in the car and then he will be happy and not cry









I am not loving toddlerhood. I think Nicole has early onset of terrible twos. She doesn't listen to me (much), throws herself on the floor, loves to throw out the lower lip, it seems like EVERYTHING hurts her feelings even if I tell her no in the nicest way possible. I can't wait for this stage to be over


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jen1409* 
I am not loving toddlerhood. I think Nicole has early onset of terrible twos. She doesn't listen to me (much), throws herself on the floor, loves to throw out the lower lip, it seems like EVERYTHING hurts her feelings even if I tell her no in the nicest way possible. I can't wait for this stage to be over

We also have a lot of that. Owyn has quite a temper and a mind of her own. Put those two attributes together and she is unstoppable at times. Discipline, even when gentle, is so tough at this age. She really doesn't understand why she can't climb onto the dining room table or run into the street, so it's hard to explain that to her. Right now, it's just "No no, Owyn" and _constant_ redirection. Exhausting, but it is definitely balanced out with all the fun things about having a toddler!

Have I mentioned lately how wonderful it is to have one sleeping through the night?!







She's still going strong. The true test will be when we go camping. We have a pop-up and she'll have to sleep with DH and I again. We'll see how she does now that she's been sleeping in her own bed for so long.

Here's a recent one of Owyn. I think you can scroll through the album if you want.


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## Everrgreen

Love the photos ladies!! So cute









And here's one of Royce from just this morning

Mal - highlight the text you want to use, then click on the little earth with the paper clip (I think that's what it is) a little box will pop up for you to put the link in









And I sooo look forward to Royce truly sleeping through the night. I don't think I'll know what to do with myself







But for now I am happy with his 5-6 hour chunk, plus he's been going to bed pretty regularly at 8pm, which means I get some alone time!

Jen - I'm sorry you're having a rough time







I didn't mean that things were all sunshine and lollipops over here, we certainly have our bad moments/days too! He is a toddler afterall









Speaking of bad moments, did anyone see my thread on Royce's meal time annoyances? He is being so difficult about eating his meal and wants nothing but snack foods. It is driving me nuts! I know I should pick my battles, but it is so frustrating when I make an effort to cook a typical toddler-friendly supper, and he just cries and throws it on the floor and then wants corn puffs or fig newtons







Ughhh... Okay, vent over :/


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## Everrgreen

Royce had a new sleep record last night! 8pm - 3:45am!! That's *almost* 8 full hours!! Although he did stir a couple of times (so of course I woke up too), but just rolled around and went back to sleep on his own







He woke up again at around 5am, and then was his usual restless self until about 7:30 when we finally got up. It's progress though!

Oh, and Royce is 16 months old today


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## AKislandgirl

Fiona has her share of meltdowns too. The assertiveness is a good thing in the long run right?!







I will confess right now though that when she's been at it all day I plug her in to give myself a bit of a break. Half hour of Signing Time or Little Bear does this Mama good! I was never going to be a TV Mama but here I am!

We are hosting our new playgroup at our house this morning. I don't have daycare kids today which is nice. Only a few more weeks to go until my summer break! I am so looking forward to it!!!

Loving the pictures!

Here is Fiona wearing my underwear on her head! And another of her just be cute! (I can't get hot links to work for me anymore. Don't know why. Dang computers!







)

http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/n...h/IMG_2667.jpg

http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/n...h/IMG_2722.jpg


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## Jen1409

We're lucky that Nicole has been sleeping through since 6 weeks.

I've been having difficulties with lunch/dinner too. She normally loves grilled cheese and barely touched it on Saturday. Just another hurdle to get over I guess.


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## Mal85

My good friend is in labor right now. She was due on the 15th. Her water broke early yesterday morning and he's still not here. She said she had a really, really rough night last night and is only at 4 cm. She got an epidural out of pure exhaustion and is hoping to get some rest so she can push him out. Ladies, send her some baby woo, please! I feel so bad for her that things are going like she wanted them to.


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## Jen1409

lots of labor vibes!


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## Thursday Girl

love the photos. wish I could rub Royce's head. Fiona is adorable! and I commented on one of Owyn;s pictures.

Junes gets annoying for me sometimes to, especially when she is tired b/c she has this thing with shoes, take them off, put them on take them off and she cries in between. SO ANNOYING! plus her twisting and pulling at my shirt while she nurses.

lunch/dinner- we don't worry about it, sometimes she eats, usually she doesn't. maybe i should push it more. I don't know.

my oldest daughter left to Denver with my sister yesterday. It's weird without her and I totally cried when i dropped her off. My husband has been gone for over a week and they keep extending his time in El paso. feeling generally sad about that stuff.

went to a nurse in yesterday. we didn't not get what we wanted, but the momma organizing it did spectacularly.

supposed to go to a vegan potluck today but the host hasn't sent me her address yet. i secretly wonder if she is doing it on purpose. It seems like people always make friends with other moms in all the organizations they go to LLL, the birth center moms group, my girls school and somehow I am the only one that doesn't. It feels really shitty sometimes. I so want to get some friends for each one of my girls and it just doesn't happen. I'm jealous. I wonder what I am lacking here, what I am doing wrong. I have been wondering this same thing for years now.


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## mckittre

Mal - good luck to your friend!

Courtney - Don't assume she's doing it on purpose - just call and ask for the address. That sounds hard though - I'm lucky it's easy to make friends in a small town.

lunch/dinner - The meals I tend to cook have a number of different ingredients in them (salmon and veggies over rice, stir fry, pasta with veggies and cheese, etc...) and he'll usually eat one of the ingredients. Often only one, though! Yesterday it was tomatoes. Sometimes it's salmon, or noodles, or cheese. Sometimes it's not much at all. I don't usually worry about just letting Katmai have (healthy) snacks whenever he wants. We're kind of a snacking family anyway. Though he will rarely ask for food and is a skinny guy, so we push the snacks on him more than the reverse. Only exception is raisins. He always finds them in the cupboard and begs, but they come through whole!


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## Thursday Girl

I'm such a dork, turns out the potluck is NEXT wednesday.

Raisins went through my first daughter whole, but I hear the nutrition is absorbed from them. Oddly they never went through my other 2 daughters whole.


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## AKislandgirl

Raisons go through whole with Fiona too! They seem to help with her constipation though so I don't really worry about it though. She loves them! We sometimes have issues with eating here. Sometimes all she wants is crackers, "gucka" in her words. I try to hide them and only give them to her once in a while. Some nights she doesn't really want to eat and others it seems I can't give her enough. I don't really worry too much about it but it drives DH crazy. Last night he had a total tantrum about it.







That's what drives me crazy! Not her refusing food.

Mal: good luck to your friend!

Thursday: glad it was a mistake! I do know what you mean about making friends. While I know lots of other folks here in town, I'm not really close to anyone. I miss that. I hope your DH gets home soon too! I hate it when DH is out of town, not knowing exactly when he'll be back would drive me bonkers. I'm sure your lo is having the time of her life on her trip too!

I feel like I need to do some kind of health overhaul. I'm just dragging so much these days! I feel tired all the time, I'm fighting yet another cold, and my back is still bothering me. I know that part of the energy thing is the daycare (and the colds!) which will be ending here in a few weeks. I'm trying to do my back exercises regularly and I have my first rolfing session this Saturday. I'm also taking a new iron supplement. I'm just ready for a clean slate health and energy wise. I'm not 100% sure how to get it but I'm trying. Suggestions welcome!!


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## AKislandgirl

Oh yeah, forgot I was going to mention this. I just learned about Swagbucks recently. If anyone is interested in signing up under me PM me. I'm planning to use the points for Amazon cards.


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## Mal85

Baby Silas is here!







I get to go meet him tomorrow, I can't wait to snuggle a brand new baby!


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## Thursday Girl

yay for new babies!


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Yay!! How exciting









My friend is 38 weeks today and is soo anxious to meet her little girl. So, can she be next for some labour vibes?? And I am excited to play doula for her









AK - I had to google swagbucks, I'd never heard of it. I looked around the site but I can't figure out if I could use it as a Canadian. A lot of that fun stuff is for the US only.

And, what is rolfing? Ok, I just googled it, sounds interesting. I hope it works for you!!

As for getting active, my exercise consists of going for walks and bike rides with Royce. The weather has been so nice this spring, so we are able to get outside just about everyday. And once you get in the routine, it's easy, and you feel better from all the fresh air and sunshine









Thursday - glad it just turned out to be a mix up! I also have a hard time really connecting with other moms. I am a shy person but sometimes I have to force myself into the conversation and maybe even invite myself along







Luckily I've met some really nice moms who are very welcoming and friendly!

And I'm sorry you're missing your daughter and your husband







I am sure your daughter is having a wonderful time though - what a fun experience for her!


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## AKislandgirl

Welcome Baby Silas!!







I'm so jealous that you get to snuggle a newborn Mal!

Gillian: I think you can use swagbucks in Canada because I just redeemed points for an Amazon gift card for the first time and I had to choose between a US or Canadian card.

For anyone else wondering what the heck I"m talking about, swagbucks is a search engine that gives you points or "swagbucks" as you search. Not every time but probably a couple of searches worth a day. You can redeem them for prizes. There is a bunch of junk to choose from OR things like gift cards to Amazon, paypall, REI, starbucks, etc... I decided to try it for a month to see what I thought. I still use google as my favorite search but this works OK too. I figure free money is nice! If people sign up with your referal code then you earn extra points. PM me if you want to check it out and totally ignore this whole paragraph if you are annoyed be the whole thing!









DH and I got in a huge fight last night. Really I think the worst fight we've ever had in 10 years together. It totally sucked. But after I put Fiona to bed we talked for a long time and I think we have worked some things out and he actually shared how he is feeling instead of completely shutting down like he normally does. I'm still feeling a bit salty about all of it but I'm trying.







He is not handling toddlerhood well and is realizing that his expectations of what I can do around the house when Fiona is sick and teething just needs to change. I think the thing that was the hardest for me was that he said he can't wait to leave town for a month.







I basically told him that if he is going to have a tantrum every time she does that I will lose it and we will never make it. Toddlers cry, get over it and be the parent. sorry to vent... had to get that out.


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## Nillarilla

Hugs AK that's really hard.

Mal I love holding other people's newborns and handing them back.









Thursday I am glad your picnic worked out. I know what you mean about not making friends. I am the same way but I really just don't put myself out there to make the contact.

Ok onto the tantrums thing..... How do you mama's handle it? We have meltdowns several times a day and the only way to avoid them is to feed or nurse her constantly or let her make incredible messes. I'm using a combo of all 3 but any other strategies would be welcome. Mostly she's upset that I won't pick her up at that moment or she asks for a drink and I give her water and she doesn't want it. Or I walked away from her or some such thing. She always needs to be touching me and it's driving me crazy.

I am also going to have to find a way to deal with the constant nursing. Distraction does not work. No thank you doesn't work. Offering water doesn't work. I want to slow down on the nursing not ramp up. Also she lets go and then she cries when I put the boob away. She tries to yank my shirt back up but then if I let her on again she's on and off several times and I just can't handle it.

I know that she just misses me when I am at work but she is perfectly happy and content and then she sees me and it's all crying and screaming.


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## Vegan Princess

Nilla: No advice on the constant nursing but it is going on here too. I tried to say no the other day and she had a major fit. Easier to give in for now. Thankfully we don't have too many bad tantrums yet. I hope it stays that way but I doubt we'll be so lucky!

AK: Sorry for the fight! Glad you guys could talk it out and hopefully DH will make some changes. That must be hard dealing with two toddlers!;-)

My DH is going out of town tomorrow for 3 nights. Not looking forward to it but Makenna and I are having a sleepover at a friend's house in the city who has a 9 month old. We're walking with the babies to a new cupcake shop that also serves wine and enjoying happy hour with our girls. I can't wait! So nice of my friend to have us over so we're not alone the whole time.

Makenna's first molar started popping through! I guess that explains why she was up 5 times last night. And had a fever a couple nights ago (but didn't seem sick at all). Only 1 part is through so I guess we have more of the same to come...plus the other 3. Ugh!

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

when toddlers BECOME toddlers, when they start exploring more, having the ability to walk away from us a natural "I need mommy" thing kicks in to help keep them from getting lost. It can be totally annoying but it's just evolution.

as for nursing a lot, it could be that combined with teeth coming in. It's so annoying though, isn;t it?

tantrums- Junes needs me to not touch her while she is tantrumming. I have to just wait until she is ready and reaches for me. as for stopping them from happening? Not so sure. make sure they are not tired, or hungry?I am trying to teach her to sign please when she wants somethign instead of her just reaching and making the milk sign (her "i want) and saying "dhish" I had to walk her out of a restaurant b/c she started up when I wanted her to sogn please for some mango juice.

GIllian- how exciting to get to doula your friend, it was really neat when I got to do that for my friend, and to help catch the baby.

AK sorry about the fight, it can be really hard adjusting to kids.

Vegan- that is super cool of your friend to invite you over, what a fun night you guys have planned.,

so junes is a climber, all of my kids have been climbers but she is more so. These aren't even the biggest things she has climbed. but it makes one pretty nervous and I thought I was pretty laid back after my first two.

but first some cuteness. I think the shoes make the outfit

this is my four year old climbing the curvy ladder

and junes, i am standing up straight while i take this photo

and this is the rail on the shaky bridge, I actually had to aim the camera UP to get the shot

and this isn't heart stoppingly scary, just mind blowingly cute. Junes singing.


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## starling&diesel

We're back from Costa Rica! We had a great time. Esmé is an awesome traveller! Great to catch up on everyone's news and issues. Will pop in tomorrow after a good night's sleep.


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## mckittre

starling - welcome back! Glad you had a good time

Courtney - wow! Katmai doesn't climb anything bigger than stairs yet. His preferred outdoor activities involve rocks and puddles.

Constant nursing here too. And clinging to mama 24/7. It's really frustrating actually, since I can't do any work. My husband and I both work at home, and switch off taking Katmai, but when he cries for mama all the time there's not much I can do. I wish I could blame it on teeth, and I keep hoping, but I don't see any teeth coming through.
He doesn't really tantrum, just whines for me when I walk away, etc... And cries mama mama mama any time my husband takes him. I've been doing a bunch of gardening, at least, since he's mostly OK with hanging out with me outside.

Still having trouble with late bedtimes here. I've got his nap as early as I can (12:30-2PM today), and it's still not working. 10:15PM now, and he's not asleep. Yesterday it was 11PM. Is it possible that a 15 month old shouldn't nap at all? I don't know that he could make it through the day, but I really miss having some time in the evenings.


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## Mal85

I got to meet the new little man last night and he made my ovaries twinge! I wanted to just bring him home with me. Man, that makes it really hard to wait until the end of the summer to get pregnant. Doesn't help that DH is ready to get pregnant right now, I have to be the strong one!

Owyn is a major climber too. She tries to climb EVERYTHING. I feel like all I do all day is keep her off the tables and anything else dangerous she wants to climb. She figured out how to pull the chairs out from under the table so she can climb on them. Then, once she's on the chair, she grabs the back of it and starts trying to shake it and jumps up and down. I'm afraid she'll make it fall while she's on it.

DH set up the pop-up last night so we can start cleaning it and packing things in it for next weekend. Owyn thought that was just awesome! We may have a camp out in the driveway this weekend just to see how she does sleeping in there. Should be interesting.

As for tantrums, I try to just walk away from them. It doesn't usually take her long to calm down and come to me for comfort. Now, the whining. That's a different story. I can't tolerate the whining voice. When she wants everything, but nothing pleases her. Ugh.

Welcome back, Starling! Can't wait to hear about your trip!


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## Vegan Princess

Welcome back Starling! Can't wait to hear about the trip.

Thought some of you might be interested in a book I found at the library called "Mothering Your Nursing Toddler". I haven't read much yet but the section on 1-2 yr olds mentions that constant nursing is very common at this age...for the same reasons as Thursday Girl mentioned. It says this is distressing to many moms bc they didn't know that this is normal before going through it. I can't wait to read more.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Thanks for the welcome back greetings!

We did have an awesome trip. Esmé was phenomenal on the airplane, both there and back. I cannot believe what an easy-going kid she is, so long as she's got me to nurse her when she gets uneasy on the odd occasion. Not a peep out of her. And we didn't haul out half the tricks we'd packed to entertain her. She spent about an hour of each leg napping, an hour playing with two cups, one filled with ice, and another hour sorting her plastic IKEA clips (she has about ten of them, and likes to slip them into a small cardboard box with a hole in each end, and then open the box, take them all out in a particular order, arrange them, and then put them back into the box), another hour of nursing (combined), and the fourth hour reading stories and having snacks. Then we had a layover in Dallas for a few hours, when she was able to run around and play with her ball. And then the second leg, which was essentially a repeat of the activities of the first leg.
Major success!!!

She got about forty insect bites, and a few patches of heat rash, but none of it seemed to bother her too much.
She loved the local food, and ate constantly while we were down there. My auntie and uncle could not believe her appetite, and the variety of food she eats.

She was a dream in the car, going between places. We spent a few days at a remote national park that borders the Caribbean Ocean, and is isolated by a long canal on the other side. It was a five hour bus ride, and then a two hour boat ride down a river to get there. Again, she was a dream!

She loved all the wildlife we saw, and was ace at spotting any lizard first. Whether it was an iguana the size of her, or a tiny gecko, she'd squat and wiggle her fingers and say, "Here, lizard!" She was also super excited about seeing monkeys, toucans, butterflies, alligators, enormous spiders, crazy big funky bugs. She was not a fan of the chicken-sized toads that congregated on my Auntie and Uncle's porch each evening.

I managed to avoid her getting sun burnt, but as for the bugs, they got the better of us. Hooray for calomine lotion. Anyone have any good suggestions for bug prevention?

She nursed CONSTANTLY while we were down there, which I though was from the unique environment, and being away from home, but now, reading about you other mamas dealing with constant nursing, I wonder if it's normal? It's crazy ... she probably nursed about forty times a day down there.

So great to catch up with all of your news and happenings!


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## starling&diesel

And what would a holiday novel be without a few photos?
Here we go ...
beach baby

lounging in the hammock at the beach

feeding the pigeons in San Jose

little nature lover

It's awesome to see all our little ones growing up and becoming such groovy individuals ... keep the pics coming, mamas!


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## Everrgreen

Starling - great photos!! And I'm so glad your trip was fun and went smoothly! I have been to Manuel Antonio too!! I went to Costa Rica for a class trip in high school and that was one of the places we went too (we also went to the Los Angeles Cloud Forest, a small town where we were each placed with a 'foster' family for a week, and then San Jose). We worked in the national park to build a bench along the trail and some other park maintenance stuff. And then every afternoon we would go swimming at this little bay where the water was sooooo warm and the monkeys would literally steal food out of your pocket! It was great









Mal - Oh I'm so jealous of your baby-holding!! Still waiting for my friend to go into labour. She had an appt on Thursday and is 50% effaced and 2cm dilated so I hope it happens soon









I hope your camping trip goes well!!

mckittre - I can't imagine a 15 month old not needing at least some sort of nap during the day. You never know though I guess. I'm sorry nothing seems to be working for you guys, how frustrating!

Thursday - OMG!! Royce does not climb like that, and even if he tried I wouldn't let him







. Seriously I hover over him when he's climbing just stairs at the park. I am so afraid of him falling! He doesn't seem to be a too into climbing (yet!)

As for tantrums - Royce is pretty easy to distract. And he doesn't tantrum a whole lot, more just cries and whines - which is the most annoying thing in the world. It drives me mad!

As for nursing - I'm not sure if he's nursing more than usual, but the last few days something has changed because my nipples are SORE. I think he may have somehow changed his latch, maybe? I'm going to have to work on it because I'm very tender right now.


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
Starling - great photos!! And I'm so glad your trip was fun and went smoothly! I have been to Manuel Antonio too!! I went to Costa Rica for a class trip in high school and that was one of the places we went too (we also went to the Los Angeles Cloud Forest, a small town where we were each placed with a 'foster' family for a week, and then San Jose). We worked in the national park to build a bench along the trail and some other park maintenance stuff. And then every afternoon we would go swimming at this little bay where the water was sooooo warm and the monkeys would literally steal food out of your pocket! It was great









Mal - Oh I'm so jealous of your baby-holding!! Still waiting for my friend to go into labour. She had an appt on Thursday and is 50% effaced and 2cm dilated so I hope it happens soon









I hope your camping trip goes well!!

mckittre - I can't imagine a 15 month old not needing at least some sort of nap during the day. You never know though I guess. I'm sorry nothing seems to be working for you guys, how frustrating!

Thursday - OMG!! Royce does not climb like that, and even if he tried I wouldn't let him







. Seriously I hover over him when he's climbing just stairs at the park. I am so afraid of him falling! He doesn't seem to be a too into climbing (yet!)

As for tantrums - Royce is pretty easy to distract. And he doesn't tantrum a whole lot, more just cries and whines - which is the most annoying thing in the world. It drives me mad!

*As for nursing - I'm not sure if he's nursing more than usual, but the last few days something has changed because my nipples are SORE. I think he may have somehow changed his latch, maybe? I'm going to have to work on it because I'm very tender right now.*

That happens to me every now and then. I think Owyn will get lazy with her latch sometimes and her top teeth will rub and it hurts! Once she gets them sore, it lasts a couple of days and makes me cringe when she's nursing. It's frustrating, I have to keep taking her off and helping her latch on right. Like teaching a newborn again!


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks for the support ladies. We are doing much better around here. Today has been especially good. I went to my Rolfing appointment this AM while Fiona and Papa had some much needed father daughter bonding time at the beach and playground. I'm feeling really good with my back right now and hope this feeling lasts! I don't have another appointment for a month. I think that I'm going to try to make a point of slipping away more in the mornings on weekends so that DH and Fiona can be together. It's her best time of day and during the week DH only sees her in the evening when she's tired and clinging to Mama. I really think this will help all of us!

I also got some seeds planted in the garden and have some things ready to go for the greenhouse! Yeah! I love growing our food! On Tuesday we have 4 chicks coming too. Fiona loves to collect eggs and visit the older chickens. I can't wait for her to see these babies. I'm hoping that by handling them a lot more then this last batch she'll be able to hold them, etc as they get bigger. We'll see!

Starling: loved the pictures! So glad to hear you had a wonderful trip! I can't believe the size of that butterfly! Esmé is cute enough to eat!

Courtney: How do you not have a heart atack every time you go to the playground! I can't believe what a daredevil Juniper is! Fiona is so much more cautious although she just figured out how to stand on the TV stand the other night!









Happy weekend!


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## Everrgreen

My darling sweet boy decided he NEEDED to fall asleep at 5pm today, so I let him thinking I would wake him up in 30 minutes.







yeah right! I could not get him to wake up at all. He was soooo tired. And now it is after 9pm and he just climbed down off the bed and is running around the house







Hopefully he will just do his thing and then be ready for bed in less than an hour!

We had a rough day here - Royce got his hand caught in the elevator door. It was so awful. The door was opening and his hand went with it (I didn't notice he had his hand there). A man on the elevator with me saw at the last minute and tried to grab him, but it went in and got stuck. I immediately grabbed the door and tried to physically pull it back, in a total panic. Royce was screaming the whole time and his hand was wedged in. The man pushed the button and got the door to move. Royce's hand was purple and swollen and I was totally freaked out. The man turned out to be a paramedic and he looked at it and said it wasn't broken. And Royce calmed down within about 15 minutes and was moving his hand. It is still a bit bruised and puffy and there is a red line across his palm, but other than that he is fine.

AND, I forgot to mention this earlier, but Royce chipped his tooth 2 days ago







. My incredibly cautious, non-risk taking child! He fell walking down the sidewalk, that's it. It is just a tiny little chip, I didn't even notice until several hours later. Does anyone know if this sort of thing can get fixed? Or will he have a chipped tooth until it falls out and the adult one comes in?

Ugh... So much stress!


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## Vegan Princess

So makenna had her first ER trip today! Her fever reappeared last night and today she woke up from her nap and it had spiked. I got a reading of 106 on my digital thermometer!! But I don't think that was necessarily right since I kept getting 104.5 all the times I redid it. In any case, they wanted us to go in. We spent 4 hours there! almost 2 waiting to be seen and 2 more in the exam room with the dr coming in and out, doing various things to rule things out. They aren't sure what it is really. When the dr came back after an hour or so she said she thought Makenna's neck looked swollen on one side and uneven. I don't really see it. I think it might just be her double chin - LOL. She said she might have the beginning of cervival adenitis - an infection of the lymph nodes in the neck. I sort of don't think so but I went ahead and took the antibiotic with the thought that it will kill any other bacteria in her body that could be causing it. She perked up after a dose of advil and then another of tylenol.

Our sleepover was ok. Cupcakes was fun but then Makenna was basically up almost the entire night bc she didn't feel well. I had to go to bed at 10 bc she wouldn't go back down without me after she woke up.

I'm beat - up all night and a trying day. And of course DH is out of town.

Gillian - OMG that sounds so scary!! I'm glad his hand is ok!!


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 

We had a rough day here - Royce got his hand caught in the elevator door. It was so awful. It is still a bit bruised and puffy and there is a red line across his palm, but other than that he is fine.

Oh no! Poor baby! Have you thought about giving him arnica pills? You know, the homeopathic-melt-in-your-mouth ones? That might help. I'm so glad it wasn't broken!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
So makenna had her first ER trip today! Her fever reappeared last night and today she woke up from her nap and it had spiked.

Aw, so sorry little Makenna isn't feeling well. I hope she gets better soon! It's so unnerving when they're not themselves, isn't it?


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## Mal85

Starling- Your trip sounds wonderful! You're so lucky Esme is a good traveler!

Gillian- How scary!! I'm glad he's okay!

Cindy- Poor Makenna! We're lucky we haven't had to make a trip to the ER yet, I think I would be a total mess!

We're going on our camping trip this weekend. I'm a little nervous about it. And I have SO much stuff to do to prepare. We are leaving Friday morning, but we're hosting our monthly game night with our friends Thursday night so we have to get packed up Wednesday night. So, I'm working on about 10 loads of laundry right now so we can get our clothes packed. We're making a trip to the store tonight to get camping supplies. Any suggestions for bug repellent? It's been so wet and now it's suddenly gotten hot, so it's MUGGY. I'm worried about mosquitoes and ticks.

Oh and any suggestions for keeping Owyn happy on a 5-6 hour car ride? I'm bringing snacks and drinks and things for lunch. We're planning on making stops (we're riding with our friend who is 7 months pregnant, so I'm sure she'll need plenty of potty breaks). I thought I'd pick up a couple of new books and a new toy or something for the car ride... any other thoughts?


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## Vegan Princess

I'm open to ideas for long car rides as welll. We'll be driving down to Santa Barbara in a month for a wedding (and a mini vacation for us) and I think it is about 5 hours as well.

Well Saturday night was another rough night. Makenna was up 4-5 times before 3 am when she woke with 104.4 fever...so into the bath she went. That brought it down alot and she was able to sleep some more but I was too wired to fall asleep until she was almost up at 5 something. So pooped yesterday! She had fever all day yesterday but not above 101.5. It was down to 100 by bedtime and she actually slept until 2 without waking! Her fever is down to 99 without any meds this morning! Yay! So she is getting well just in time for daddy to come home late tonight - of course.

I don't recall who mentioned letting their kids watch a half hour video - Kate maybe? I let Makenna watch videos. I try to limit it to 1/day and often I don't put one on. If she wakes up super early we always put on a video bc really no one wants to be playing at 5 am. DH almost always puts one on when he gets up with her so he can make her breakfast. She is obsessed with Elmo now - we have been getting elmo videos from the library (though she knew about him on her own, I have no idea how! Childwatch at the Y is all I can come up with). While she has been sick I have been letting her watch more videos bc she is supposed to be resting and we have to stay inside all day and I have trouble thinking of things to do for a 12-14 hour day inside! Other than elmo we do signing videos and baby einstein (hand me downs from a friend).

Cindy


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## Jen1409

How do we get over seperation anxiety? This is new when I drop Nicole off at daycare. It's hard for me to leave when she starts crying.


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## Mal85

We've been lucky that Owyn hasn't had a whole lot of separation anxiety. But when I worked at daycares, I definitely dealt with it a lot. We always told the parents the best thing to do was to kiss, hug, snuggle for a moment. Make sure to tell them goodbye and you love them. She'll probably continue to cry for you, but just reassure her and try not to prolong it. The longer you stay to comfort her, the worse it will be. Have you talked to her provider to see how long she cries after you leave? She's probably fine within a couple minutes, most kids are.

I have our exersaucer out from when I watched my 5 month old nephew last week. Owyn has figured out how to climb into it and it's now her "new" favorite toy, hilarious to watch!


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## alaskaberry

Great pictures, everyone! I'll do one of Tucker...sometime. I keep putting off uploading photos from my camera cause there are just too many.

VP--I hope Makenna is doing better soon. I hate trips to the ER, they are pretty scary. Tucker cut his gums a few months ago and we had to go, but of course by the time they could see us (they had 3 people waiting and it still took them 2 hrs!) it had healed up (which was good, imo).

Gillian--my ds1 chipped his tooth when he was 1 on a bicycle bell. You can go to the dentist and ask, but I wouldn't waste a trip--they told me not to worry about it, since baby teeth fall out anyway. I hope his hand is feeling better.

Jen--Tucker has separation anxiety too... I am bad--I nurse him before I go, then distract him with a toy, and then leave when he's not looking. This works well for us, he usually is fine until he sees me again--then he cries. I also used to work in a daycare, altho it was at a ski resort. Usually they were ok after 20min.

Mal--play some soothing music, hopefully she will fall asleep for half the trip!









We are getting excited about our trip to Vermont in three weeks. I am not looking forward to the plane, however...I did the trip when ds1 was Tucker's age and it was pretty bad. I've only flown with two when DP has been with me, so this should be interesting. Luckily we're leaving at about one in the morning, so hopefully they will both sleep for most of the trip! Then I'll be the only one with jet lag--I hope! We are flying to Seattle first, then on to Boston.

Tucker is not talking yet, he just babbles baby-speak like "dadada" and "lalala". His favorite activity is unplugging cords and putting dirt in his mouth. He also loves to go down the slide face first at the park.


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## AKislandgirl

I hope both Makenna and Royce are feeling better. That elevator story was pretty scary. And why do the babes choose times when DH i away to be sick?

I vote for lots of stops with chances to run and climb for those car trips. If they are sleeping, don't stop! Hold your bladder till the next rest stop!







Have fun!


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## Pogo0685

Hello everyone I was in the DDC when they were babies (and when we were pregnant) but you all are so active I lost track when they became toddlers! But Starling found me over in breastfeeding beyond infancy and told me to come back so here I am. Aleric nurses ALL THE TIME, when we are at home not so much but I take him to work with me and all he does is nurse for a few minutes, go play for 5-10, comes back and tantrums if I don't nurse again and he does this all day long at work, its driving me crazy.
Aleric still doesn't talk, he says mama and has a word for didget (our cat, but all cats are named didget if you ask him) and a word for dog and he calls DH "duh", he does try to talk though just none of it makes sense.
He is sleeping from about 9 pm until a very short nurse session at midnight and then not another one til 5 am, that's down from 12 wakings a night for the last year.
Gardening, who does it with their children? We were planting things this weekend and every time I got a plant in the ground he would try to kill them in any way possible. We tried distracting him, playing with his garden tools away from the new plants and he just kept running back over to kill the veggies.
I remember someone mentioning time away from their little one, I am starting to feel like I really need time away from him







it makes me sad to say but I have only been away from him for about 8 hours his entire life and I need a break. We don't trust anyone to watch him though so starting on Saturday my DH is going to take him for a few hours while I go and learn about horses from a neighbor. I am sad to leave him even for a few hours but im sure he will be fine and I really think the break will be good for us. Ok this post is long enough, now I just hope I can keep up with all of you guys!


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## Vegan Princess

Just had to post something funny Makenna did today and yesterday. The antibiotic she is on is giving her diarrhea. Twice she has had loud farts while pooping...after which she says "daddy" over and over and even did the sign for dad to be clear. LOL! DH does fart a lot and I guess it made her think of him!! 

Welcome back Pogo!

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
Just had to post something funny Makenna did today and yesterday. The antibiotic she is on is giving her diarrhea. Twice she has had loud farts while pooping...after which she says "daddy" over and over and even did the sign for dad to be clear. LOL! DH does fart a lot and I guess it made her think of him!! 
Cindy


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## Nillarilla

I hope Royce and Makenna are healing and feeling better.

Anyone have any suggestions for me? Dd hates baths. This only started in the last month since we got back from our trip. She starts crying really hard as soon as I run the water. Then screaming when she's put in the tub and then she stands up and tries to climb out. I've tried getting in with her, new toys, bathing her with her brother, alone etc. I've tried just washing her with a cloth but it doesn't really work. The other day her hair really needed a wash so I sat her on a towel and used a facecloth but it was a wet and soapy experience and not the most effective.


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pogo0685* 
I remember someone mentioning time away from their little one, I am starting to feel like I really need time away from him







it makes me sad to say but I have only been away from him for about 8 hours his entire life and I need a break. We don't trust anyone to watch him though so starting on Saturday my DH is going to take him for a few hours while I go and learn about horses from a neighbor. I am sad to leave him even for a few hours but im sure he will be fine and I really think the break will be good for us. Ok this post is long enough, now I just hope I can keep up with all of you guys!

I need time away from Owyn every now and then. Usually just a couple of hours, but sometimes I feel like I just need a day away. DH and I were just discussing whether or not we felt like we could do an overnight away from her. We're planning to get pregnant again in the next few months and would like to have a night to ourselves before that happens. She's sleeping through the night now and is very bonded with DH's parents, so I think she'd be fine. I'm not sure if I can do it though.

I talked to a girl recently who had a great idea. She has two boys and every Saturday her husband plays primary parent with the kids. She doesn't have to leave them, but she can just play with them and enjoy them while he is responsible for diapers, feeding, etc. We've done something like this a few times and it's a really nice break too.


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## Everrgreen

Hello everyone!! I hope all my fellow Canadians had a wonderful long weekend. We had gorgeous weather here and I spent time at my friend's cottage. The mosquitos were pretty bad though, unfortnately!

And I hope all you Americans have a nice long weekend next weekend









Nilla - There was an article in mothering not too long ago about a little girl who wouldn't take a bath (I think she was 2). In the article it was just a phase she went through. But the solution ended up being to use a kiddie pool bubble bath. Maybe that's an option for you?

Cindy - omg that is hilarious!! It would be so funny if she let one rip out in public and then said 'daddy', everyone would think he did it!









Pogo - I would love to be able to garden, unfortunately we are in an apartment right now. Maybe next year!

And as for time away, I don't really get that very often, but when I do I enjoy it (although the most I've had is 5-6 hours). It's frustrating though because Royce will only go to sleep for me. Last Friday my dad came over to babysit and I went out, I told him to text me if I needed to come home, I finally came home at 11:30pm (no texts) and when I got there Royce was sooo upset. He was crying and so overtired. My dad said he had just started crying only 10 minutes before, and I believe him, but I still expected him to have fallen asleep at that point - not still be awake at 11:30pm!!! I think next time I need to leave the carseat so that he can drive him to sleep, that should work!

As for car trips - you just have to keep driving as long as they are asleep, if you have to pee you HOLD it until they wake up. Trust me! And when they do finally wake up, you take a long break (not just a pee break). It helps to if there is someone who can sit with them to entertain them. The car is a great place for battery operated toys


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## mckittre

Sorry to hear about the mishaps and illnesses!

We just got back from a long weekend of boat camping. 8 adults, 2 dogs, 2 little ones (a 1 year old, and Katmai), and it was so much fun! Lots of hanging out by campfires on the beach, hiking, etc... Katmai had a great time throwing rocks, and using a spoon to fill cups with sand and gravel. It wasn't too hard to teach him to stay away from the fire, throw rocks away from people, and only eat the plants we said were food. I'm lucky he's a relatively good listener. It's too early for bug season here, so we didn't have to worry about that.

Nilla - Katmai hates baths too. We just don't bathe him often. I do find that letting him stand outside the bath for awhile, playing in the water, sometimes gets him used to it enough that he'll go in with less fuss.

Gardening - Katmai seems OK if I give him a task to do with me (I'll hand him rocks to throw out of the garden, or give him a small watering can, etc...) I did make the mistake once of telling him the lettuce was "plants for eating" and he immediately started pulling them up and eating them.

Car trips - we did a long book tour with a ton of driving a couple months ago. I sat in the back seat as full-time entertainer, with lots of books. Worked OK.

I get less time away from Katmai than I used to, because he's still in a super clingy, cry if mama walks 10 feet away phase. I hear from his daddy that half the time he's still asking for mama long after I leave. It's gotten to where he cries if I suggest he even plays with his dad, because he's worried he'll get taken away from me. That seems no good, so I've been minimizing those times lately.


----------



## Jen1409

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
We've been lucky that Owyn hasn't had a whole lot of separation anxiety. But when I worked at daycares, I definitely dealt with it a lot. We always told the parents the best thing to do was to kiss, hug, snuggle for a moment. Make sure to tell them goodbye and you love them. She'll probably continue to cry for you, but just reassure her and try not to prolong it. The longer you stay to comfort her, the worse it will be. Have you talked to her provider to see how long she cries after you leave? She's probably fine within a couple minutes, most kids are.

I have our exersaucer out from when I watched my 5 month old nephew last week. Owyn has figured out how to climb into it and it's now her "new" favorite toy, hilarious to watch!


They have 4 providers between the 2 rooms that are connected, I'm not crazy about the one in the morning so I don't really know how to talk to her. Maybe I'll try to talk to the one that is there in the afternoon and see if she knows.


----------



## AKislandgirl

We got our new chicks!







Fiona loves them! I've been teaching her to pet them with one finger because she wants to hold them and squeeze the poor things to death (literally!) She loves to kiss them. They are in our garage until they get bigger so we have spent a lot of time out there these last two days!

We are having some gorgeous weather here too! I hope it lasts through the weekend. This weekend is Crab Fest here... the carnies are coming to town! There will be a big parade, food booths, etc... I'm looking forward to it.

We've been doing lots of gardening here. Fiona is pretty content to dig in her own little spot. If she is feeling more antsy then I'll give her a pile of grass to feed the chickens (the adults that are already outside in the coop). She likes to drop one piece at a time in which gives me time to get some things planted.


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## Vegan Princess

Ladies, I am utterly and completely mentally exhausted! Makenna's fever has been gone since Monday evening. But since Tuesday she has been SO whiny, cranky and tantrumy. I assume something is still bothering her. I'm figuring either the antibiotic or her molars that are coming in. Whatever it is, me no likey!! Good thing I get bursts of loving and cuteness in between the whining and crying. Oh and she needs to nurse every 5 minutes. Literally. I hope this is just from something being off, not a new phase! Egads! A lot of it comes from her asking for something repeatedly and me not knowing what the heck she wants...or not wanting to give it to her. That and she is always saying "more" (or "mo" actually). I noticed today that it actually makes me nervous when she does it in a store and starts to get upset. Like I have not yet learned how to say no to my child and be ok with it!

Just needed to vent!

Cindy


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## mckittre

Cindy - that sounds hard, hope she's back to herself soon!

I just found out today that Katmai will be getting a little sister or brother this December! Kind of crazy. I found out today at a routine annual exam that not only did my IUD mysteriously fall out/disappear without me noticing, but that I'm 11 weeks pregnant! The missed periods didn't phase me because I'm nursing and had a Mirena IUD. But still, you'd think I would have known. In hindsight, I can see I had some symptoms I misinterpreted at the time, but not much.
And here I was half thinking we were just going to keep Katmai an only child. Now that I'm starting to wrap my head around the idea, we're getting excited, but I'm definitely nervous about the "2 under 2" thing.

I will send my misplaced extra conception dust towards those who are actually looking for it now.


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## Everrgreen

mckittre - OMG!!!!! I am so excited and happy for you!!!







That is wonderful news (even if it is surprising news for you!)

I wanted to share with all of you that my friend had her baby yesterday!! A gorgeous baby girl, 7lb 3oz, born at around 5:30pm yesterday. It was so wonderful to be there for her through her labour and the birth. She did amazing! And her little girl is already nursing like a pro!


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## Mal85

Wow, mckittre, how exciting!! I'm so happy for you! Congratulations









Congrats to your friend Gillian! Owyn was 7 lbs. 3 oz and so was my friend's baby boy!

We're heading out for our camping trip this morning. I should be packing coolers right now, but oh well. We're supposed to have sunshine and temps in the lower 80's all weekend, just perfect!! See you ladies next week!


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## Vegan Princess

McKittre: OMG!!! I'm so excited for you!!! That must have been a huge shock!! From not even thinking it was possible to be pregnant to almost in the 2nd trimester! Wow! Must have been meant to be!! Send some of that good baby making dust my way!

Gillian: Yay for your friend! 

Mal: Have a great time. I hope everything goes smoothly for you.

Well we are starting night weaning tonight! I'm not sure if we'll just go cold turkey or do the jay gordon method of spending the 1st 3 nights nursing a little but not until baby is asleep. I have to think about it through out the day today. Thankfully DD is back to only 1 waking right now. However she did wake early in the night 2 nights ago and I attempted to not nurse and she screamed and screamed so I did. Anyway, hopefully nightweaning will help my period come back!!

Oh exciting news here! Makenna pooped in the potty this morning. She had been resisting sitting on it for a while but I moved it into the bathroom and now she will sit while I go. Yesterday she peed and today she pooped. I think watching a 2 minute video about Elmo going potty on youtube really helped too. She said Elmo before she pooped. LOL.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Vegan: I love that your DD is so fart and poop oriented! Not every kid makes these associations!!

Erin: CONGRATULATIONS!! What news!







I'm so excited for you guys! That news just perked up my morning!! Just please don't leave us for another DDC, you can date us both can't you?!

I've got a sick girl on my hands. She's had a runny nose and slight cough for about a week and a half but it has made a turn for the worse. Last night was a rough night. DH wants me to have her checked out so I'm taking her in at 10 this morning. It's a Dr we haven't seen and a man so I'm not sure she's going to cooperate much but we'll see. I have a hunch she may have a sinus infection...


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## Nillarilla

We are sick here too. Lots of coughing and snot and low grade fevers. Hugs to those going through the same.

McKittre



































So happy for you. Makes me twinge for another.

Cindy WOW pottying already. I am still waiting impatiently







for the walking to start.

I am actually thinking about taking dd to the child development centre for an evaluation. There's just been a few more things like the absolutely freaking over the bath, hating the feel of grass on her feet, throwing fit over diaper changes and hand and face washes. Makes me worry about sensory issues. I figure it can't hurt to get an evaluation.


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 
I'm 11 weeks pregnant!

Wow! What huge news, Mckittre! Will you guys hunker down and be a family of four in the yurt, or does this make you want some more space?

Here's some happy 2-under-2 dust ...








And some happy and healthy pregnancy dust ...









Remind us, how was your pregnancy with Katmai?

Obviously this pregnancy is going well so far!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
I wanted to share with all of you that my friend had her baby yesterday!! A gorgeous baby girl, 7lb 3oz, born at around 5:30pm yesterday.

Congratulations to your friend, and a hearty WELCOME TO THE WORLD, little girl!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
Well we are starting night weaning tonight! I'm not sure if we'll just go cold turkey or do the jay gordon method of spending the 1st 3 nights nursing a little but not until baby is asleep.


Good luck, Cindy! Let us know how it goes. I need to get on that. I'll be going to work full time in the near future, and will be away two nights of the block for night shifts. Not looking forward to it.









And as for pooping in the potty ... right on! Esmé did that and then promptly decided she hated the potty and hasn't set her tush on it since. Her bear goes potty, her dolly goes potty, WE have gone potty in her potty. Here's to hoping the strike ends eventually.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
I am actually thinking about taking dd to the child development centre for an evaluation. There's just been a few more things like the absolutely freaking over the bath, hating the feel of grass on her feet, throwing fit over diaper changes and hand and face washes. Makes me worry about sensory issues. I figure it can't hurt to get an evaluation.


Trust your gut, mama. Whatever would put your heart at ease. Either you'll find out that she's on the sensory issues spectrum and will be able to do something about it, or you'll be reassured that she's just a super-sensitive little kid. Keep us posted!


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## AKislandgirl

Back from our appt. It went great. This new Dr. is fantastic with Fiona. Last time we saw someone other then my friend that she knows she freaked out and kept grabbing her coat and saying bye-bye in the saddest voice. This guy had her smiling and laughing. She let him check everything out no problem. And she is pretty healthy for being sick. It's just a nasty bug that is lasting forever. I am glad that I took her and ruled out ear or sinus infection though.

He also looked at her skin issues and gave me some new thoughts on that which was helpful. We'll be going wheat free for a while which I have been putting off trying. Good thing I ran out of time to bake the bread this morning! He was a little concerned about her weight until he plotted it on the WHO chart and I told him about monitoring it over the past several months. She's still just below the 3% but plodding along in her own little way. 17.11 pounds today! I imagine she'll be way over 2 before we turn that car seat around!


----------



## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
She's still just below the 3% but plodding along in her own little way. 17.11 pounds today! I imagine she'll be way over 2 before we turn that car seat around!

It's much safer rear facing anyways!








We'll probably keep DD rear facing for as long as possible. Better for the spinal cord in the event of an accident.

Glad to hear that it's just a bug ... healing vibes coming your way!


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## Vegan Princess

McKittre: I have been wondering today - how does an IUD fall out of your vagina without one noticing???? Is your dr sure it didn't migrate and get lost somewhere? I've heard of that happening! I saw mine when they took it out - no way in heck that could fall out of me without me knowing!!!

Cindy


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## mckittre

Gillian - congratulations to your friend.

AK - glad Fiona is doing OK. I still don't know how much Katmai weighs, because he refused to get on the scale yesterday. We're guessing around 20.

Thanks for all the congratulations and good wishes everyone. I'm getting past the surprise and getting excited about this pregnancy now (though we're still waiting a couple more weeks to tell real life folks). I had a pretty easy pregnancy with Katmai most of the way - obviously this one is very easy so far. I wish I hadn't given away all Katmai's small clothes already! And don't worry, I'll still hang out here with you guys - I won't abandon Katmai for the new babe, and I won't abandon his DDC either.

Starling - I think we'll be fine in the yurt - a little one doesn't take much more space. More importantly, we're building a tiny little washhouse to have access to running water, washing machine, etc... which I think will be much more important.

Cindy - ugh. Don't remind me. They told me it is almost certain that it fell out (how that could happen without me knowing I don't know, but they assured me it sometimes does). However, there is a chance it went sideways and is still in there somewhere. But the only way to check is an abdominal X-ray - which is obviously impossible while pregnant. So I'm just stuck assuming the best until this baby comes.


----------



## Vegan Princess

McKittre: Didn't mean to freak you out! Could they do some sort of ultrasound? Anyway, I'm sure it is fine...or you probably wouldn't be growing a babe this far along!

Cindy


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## alaskaberry

mckittre--I guess if it fell out while you were in the um, outhouse? That's my personal nightmare. But, congratulations!
















nilla--Tucker has also been hating baths lately. He screams bloody murder and tries to climb out right away! But, his older brother wouldn't take a bath until he was well past 2--hello wet wipe baths. I hope the eval goes well.









Tucker has a fever, poor lil guy.







I said a charm over him, what else can a mama do, but I know in my heart it's best to let the fever run its course. He acted like himself all day, happy and smiley, so hopefully it will break tonight. He doesn't qualify for DP's insurance or for Denali kid care, so we're sorta stuck in insurance limbo til his 2nd birthday--I will go to the clinic if it comes to that, but grr grr about the insurance anyway. Sending t&p to all the sick little ones out there!


----------



## starling&diesel

My little one had a rough night too ... vomitted all over us and her and the bed at midnight and then was burning hot all night. We'll see how she does today.
Healing vibes to all the wee sickies!


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## mckittre

Sending healing wishes to all the sick ones! I got slammed with a cold recently and still have it, but Katmai has luckily mostly escaped it.

Katmai hates baths too. There was a period where he liked them (7-12 months, maybe?), but he's hated them most of his life. I just don't bathe him very often.









alaskaberry - outhouse is a good guess, I think, but who knows?
Cindy - they did an ultrasound of the uterus and didn't find it, but would have to do an x-ray of the rest of my abdomen to see if it's somewhere else.

I'm sure it will be hard, but I'm starting to think about the ways having kids close together could be good. I never played much with my brothers 4 and 13 years younger than me - maybe these two will be closer. And I'll be done with diapers sooner, etc...


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## Vegan Princess

Well McKittre's baby dust must have worked! I *finally* got AF back!!! It had been 55 days since I had my IUD removed. I have no idea if it was delayed bc of the hormones in the mirena or bc of nursing. I had been thinking nursing. Either way, hopefully this means we can start TTC!

Hope all the sickies are better soon!!! Hugs!

Cindy


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## mckittre

Yay Cindy! Hope you have a little one coming your way soon!


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## Everrgreen

I hope all the sick little ones are feeling better! Poor babies









AK - Royce is almost 24lb and still rearfacing, I'll keep him that way until he outweighs the carseat limit.

I have to vent to all of you about my sandal shopping for Royce. I am trying to find him specific sandals (Starling - I'm actually looking for the ones that I think Esme was wearing in one of the photos you posted). He has the shoe version and I love them, so now I want the sandal version for the summer. Anyway, so I can't find them anywhere, but I went to a speciality chain kids shoe store on the weekend to see. Now, they do sell them, but only had them up to a size 4. When I asked the lady about bigger sizes she said to me 'they don't make them bigger than that because those shoes are meant for prewalkers only, he shouldn't be wearing those shoes because they are unsupportive, he needs something with more support' (and it was in a totally condescending tone, btw). So, immediately I felt defensive, and po'd because she had lied to me - the shoes go up to a size 6 and in fact the ones Royce has are a 4.5. So I called her on that, and told her that I had done tons of research online and have read so many things saying that bare feet is best, but next to that you want something super flexible. Well, she proceeded to tell me that she's been in the business for 25 years blah blah blah, and that I'm wrong and she's right and I'm ruining his feet by allowing him to wear a flexible shoe. I tried again to argue with her (I don't know why), and finally I just grabbed Royce and said I'm leaving this is ridiculous. This is a store that SELLS the shoes he was wearing and the sandals I was looking for, and these shoes have a rubber/waterproof sole - why would they be for a prewalker???? GRRRRRRR, anyway, it really annoyed me. And I still haven't found sandals for him









Okay, vent over...


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## Nillarilla

Gillian I'm sorry you had an awful experience at the shoe store. Can you order them online?
Cindy Yay for AF!!!!
Starling I hope Esme is feeling better.

Delia has started throwing tantrums in my arms so I put her on the floor to finish them. I feel a little guilty and I don't know if it's teaching her anything but I guess it's safer for all involved.

I bought 3 dream Eze AIO's off baby half off yesterday. I've wanted to try them for a while and I couldn't resist the price tag.


----------



## mckittre

Gillian - that's awful. I wonder what she'd think of the fact that I let Katmai run around barefoot in the dirt quite a bit (he's an incorrigible puddle stomper).

I have Katmai front facing at home (maximum trip = 3 miles on a low-traffic gravel road at a max speed of 30mph), but rear facing if we go anywhere out of town (like on the book tour).

Katmai went to bed at midnight again last night - it seems like we have trouble with him 1/2 to 1/3 of nights. I've just given up and started to let him play when he's like that.


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## Nillarilla

Wow my last couple posts have sounded so frustrated and negative. Just wanted to add some positives. Delia has started to talk a little more. She said outside and nilla (our dog), mama, daddy, and go. She loves slides. We have a little plastic playground in the yard and she climbs halfway up and slides down face first saying "WEEEEE!!!" She's started to play a little more independently outside. She's sleeping a lot better. If she didn't have a cough I believe she'd be sleeping 10hrs straight. She's actually listened to the word no the last couple times and not cried her heart out over it. She's also eating a lot and a wide variety







.

My garden is really taking off. I love this time of year. My house is falling apart but my yard is improving quickly.


----------



## AKislandgirl

last night Fiona was pretty wound up and was having a hard time settling down. She sometimes does this thing where she goes through a whole bunch of words or signs as I'm rocking her. Last night she kept signing sit, saying no no and down. Apparently we have been saying this to her a lot lately! Good lord, this girl has turned into a climbing monkey!

She has been singing a lot lately too which I adore!







Her favorite songs are baa baa black sheep and ring around the rosie. She sings "Ashey, Ashey, baby babble DOWN!"

I have probably mentioned this a million times already but, THIS IS MY LAST WEEK OF CHILD CARE!





















I'm so beyond excited! It has been really hard and I'm so happy to be done for the summer. Next fall I will have just one little girl coming back 2-3 days a week. Woo Hoo!


----------



## Mal85

Hello ladies. I have so much reading to catch up on!

Our camping trip was amazing! Owyn shocked me everyday with how calm and content she was. She never once fussed in the car the whole way down there (5 hour ride!). She slept about 2 hours of it and just played and giggled and talked to herself the rest of the way. We got out once and ate lunch and let her run around for a while, but that was it! I had even taken a few new toys to entertain her in the car and she didn't even need them!

The festival itself was so much fun! She was treated like a princess by everyone who saw her. We caught early shows everyday and just lazied around the campsite and the river where we went swimming. She slept whenever she was tired and entertained herself the rest of the time. We were camping on sand, so it was like a built-in playground for her digging in the sand all weekend!

Last night was a quieter night with mostly families at the shows. Owyn loved watching all the other kids and dancing to the bluegrass band. My friend hoops and had some mini-hoops with her that Owyn LOVED playing with! She was even trying to move her hips the same as my friend trying to figure out how she did it, so cute!

This morning, she woke up fussing at us, like she was telling us it was time to go home. She was so ready after such a big weekend. She was a little fussier on they way home, but not too bad. And she squealed when we got home and she saw our house. She was so excited to be back! DH and I are glad to be back too and I have the rest of the week off from baby-sitting, so plenty of time to get everything back in order!


----------



## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
Starling - I'm actually looking for the ones that I think Esme was wearing in one of the photos you posted. He has the shoe version and I love them, so now I want the sandal version for the summer.

What a drag that you had to deal with miss holier-than-thou arrogant miss so-and-so.
The sandals Mé is wearing in the pics are stride-rites.
These ones.
She has stride rite shoes and I love them, so that's why we got the sandals.
They're great!
She wore them every single day in Costa Rica, and no blisters or sore spots.
Good luck with your footwear hunt!
I can't tell you how many heated conversations I've had with moms about soft sole versus hard sole. I had several people tell me that I was ruining Mé's arch and instep and blah blah blah by putting her into hard soled shoes at ten months. She got plenty of nakey-foot time and also had moccasins too. I'm sure she'll be fine. Sanctimonious hooey monsters.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
Starling I hope Esme is feeling better.

Thanks ... she's not, actually. I went to work today and she was with my mom, and when I got home at nearly ten pm, my mom and partner informed me that she'd had five diarrhea blow-outs and 'wasn't herself' all day. WHAT?







I would've come home. But when I called to check in, my mom assured me that everything was great. She is a nurse, and I do trust her to tell me if she thinks I should come home, but I would've liked to have known. I told her, and my partner, that full disclosure is the way to go, unless they want the wrath of this mama bear coming down on them like a freight train.
So she's had a fever, and now diarrhea, over the course of two days. Not sure when to take her to the doc? It seems that she's working through something, and is still drinking lots of BM and water and is eating well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
I have probably mentioned this a million times already but, THIS IS MY LAST WEEK OF CHILD CARE!

Congatulations! And I love singing babies ... Mé is a little singer. Especially on the boob, which is more of a hum, actually. She's so bang-on with her tunes that other people can tell what song she's singing. Love it! So cute!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 

Our camping trip was amazing!

So glad to hear that you had a great time! It sounds awesome!


----------



## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 

I have probably mentioned this a million times already but, THIS IS MY LAST WEEK OF CHILD CARE!





















I'm so beyond excited! It has been really hard and I'm so happy to be done for the summer. Next fall I will have just one little girl coming back 2-3 days a week. Woo Hoo!

Yay!!








I know exactly how excited you are about this!









I've been keeping just one little girl for the last month or so with the understanding that I'll start job hunting about half way through the summer. But I am loving it exactly as it is right now. I've actually been able to get stuff done around the house. Even DH has commented several times about how I'm in a much better mood and he loves that he hasn't had to do dishes or laundry in weeks since I have the time to do it now. I keep hoping he'll realize he loves it like this too and doesn't want me to go back to work or keep more than one kid. I can dream right?


----------



## justKate

OMG, *mckittre*, SO happy for you! Congrats!

We got back from visiting the inlaws about a week ago and I haven't had time to catch up on anything, it seems. I've got lots of reading to do here, Facebooking, photos to upload, etc. Plus pretending to work at my job.









After lots of talks about the financials, we've decided that we're going to wait a while for #2, and reevaluate about a year from now. I'm expecting to be unemployed for a while when Huz gets orders next February, so that will give me some time to spend with Aubs before she goes to school, which will be nice. I've started BCP, which are making me a little sick, but I have to say that I'm not responsible enough for FAM and the idea of an IUD or going back on Depo scares me a little, for different reasons. Of course I wouldn't be opposed to a surprise if one happened....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
I am actually thinking about taking dd to the child development centre for an evaluation. There's just been a few more things like the absolutely freaking over the bath, hating the feel of grass on her feet, throwing fit over diaper changes and hand and face washes. Makes me worry about sensory issues. I figure it can't hurt to get an evaluation.

I agree it can't hurt! I took Aubs to the doc last friday to request a script for an OT eval for her sensory "issues." Got the script, now waiting for the OT appt. The doc checked her over and noticed that her right middle ear is really red an looks scarred, but "strange; not like scarring from ear infections" in her words, so back to the ENT we go. We decided not to do ventilation tubes back in December as the ENT suggested for several reasons, and she hasn't seemed to have ear infections since then, but now I'm really worried about this "scarring" she sees. If its not one thing its another! Of course I'm terrified that I may have damaged her eardrum somehow cleaning her ears (but I'm really careful!) or using the Nose Fredia or something. Ugh.

Here's a (sort of) recent pic of the little monster in my childhood rocking chair that my mom reupholstered. She's enjoying being "naughty" by standing in the chair and rocking, even though Mama said not to 20+ times. Still small--consistently 5th percentile.









OT, but what do you all think about selling my breastpump? Its a Medela PIS Advanced that got lots of use (Aub's NICU stay + pumping at work for the 1st year). Nothing _wrong_ with it, but since we're thinking about waiting a while before TTC again, I was thinking I should sell it to help lighten our load. Would you all sell it or keep it? Maybe I'm just indecisive today.

Back to work for now, will be back shortly!

ETA: Those Stride Rites are GREAT. Aubs wears them to baby school with socks (to protect feet from germs/pea gravel/etc.) and sans socks at home. Does anyone else's <20 lb. baby wear a size 5.5 shoe?


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## Jen1409

I just have to ask why 3 day weekends are never long enough!


----------



## Everrgreen

Starling - Yep! Those are the exact ones I'm looking for!
And, seriously, who knew shopping for baby sandals was this difficult? I called around to a few places yesterday and one store said they had them and would hold them for me. I was on the road today so I was going to be passing by a couple of stores that carried them. Well, when I got there, they were the wrong colour (even though I had specified the colour). I'm beginning to think that nobody carries the stone coloured ones. I've seen the blue ones a few times, but I really like the stone colour! Anyway, I decided to try them on him in a half size bigger than his shoes (which I bought in March in a size 4.5 and they still fit!) So the sandals were a size 5 medium and were too long and the guy there said Royce had thick feet and the sandals weren't wide enough for his feet. Which is soo confusing because his shoes are medium width and the lady I bought those from said he had narrow feet for a toddler. Ugh! I don't know what to do now. All the other sandals I looked at were so firm, and I can't imagine Royce being able to walk in them very well. He still has baby feet and he is still new to walking, so I really don't want to put him in a 'real' shoe yet.

Anyway, thanks for listening to me vent about my shoe shopping again!

justKate - Oh, Aubrey is so cute!!! I hope everything turns out fine with her ears









As for your pump, if it were me, I would keep it. You are going to need a pump when #2 comes right? It makes sense to hang onto it for the next 1-2 years while you wait for the new baby. Otherwise you will have to rebuy one again.

Starling - I'm sorry Esme is so sick. And I understand completely how frustrated you are with not being called. I think the decision about whether or not my baby needs me should be up to ME!

Mal - I'm glad your camping trip went so smoothly!! I am thinking of taking Royce camping this summer.


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## AKislandgirl

Mal: so glad the camping trip went so well! I saw some FB pics and it looked like she had a great time!

JustKate: I'd keep the pump too. You have already put money into it, no need to do it again. I hope the ear thing turns out OK. Let us know. Also hope her evaluation gives you some answers. She is such a cutie! Fun to have a rocker that was yours!

Starling: Poor Baby! I hope she is feeling better soon. I hate having a sick baby!

Gillian: Sorry about the shoe fiasco. I just ordered Fiona some Keens from the REI sale. They arrived today. I actually ordered a 4 and 5 to try them on her since I don't have the luxury of a real store. Even though the 5's are a bit big still I think they will work. I can easily bend the sole in half with my hand so I feel good about them. I usually have her in soft starts but needed something she could get wet (non leather).

I've been meaning to ask... what does your bedtime routine look like? We don't really have one (which is probably why she goes to bed so darn late!).







DH is leaving for a month on Saturday and I think this is a good time to start getting into better night time habits! What do you all do for bed time?


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## Mal85

Our bedtime routine has become very simplified lately. It used to be a 2 hour ordeal until I could take her to bed with me. Now, at 7:30 I put her PJs on, then we'll either lay around together snuggling on the floor (her favorite activity) or we'll read books. I was nursing her around 7:45, then DH would take her to her bed and she lays down and falls asleep with no fuss at all, even when he leaves the room! She will not go down that easy for me, so he does it every night.

Just last week, she started refusing the bedtime nursing, so we just take advantage of the time to snuggle now.


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## Mal85

And, for those that haven't seen. Here's a link to the pics I posted on FB of our camping trip.


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## alaskaberry

Tucker goes to bed anywhere from 7-9, usually later now that it's summer! We have blackout curtains over the windows, but they know the sun doesn't go down. Recently ds1 moved out of the family bed, Tuck has had a bit of difficulty adjusting even though ds1 is now sleeping on the floor next to my bed. Before bed, I read a story to each child, and tell them a "magic canoe" story (about their magic adventures in their magic canoe that I make up every night) when the lights go out. Tuck nurses to sleep and wakes up anywhere from 4-6 hrs later, then nurses on and off every 2 hrs for the rest of the 'night'.


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## starling&diesel

About the *breast pump* ... check out your local Craigslist and see how many are for sale. Around here, used pumps are a dime a dozen on CL and so they don't sell for very much. In that case, I'd keep it.
If you can get a good price for it and want the cash for right now, go ahead and sell it!
We sold ours, which was new in the box and never used. I had one from the hospital and never produced much with it, so never got around to using it. I was at our local baby store and saw a new mama looking at the one I had at home, so I offered mine for way cheaper.
But if you used yours, I'd keep it.


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 

Starling - I'm sorry Esme is so sick.

Thanks to everyone for your healing vibes. Esmé is still super sick, so today we collected a poo sample and took it to the lab. I hope it's not a Central American parasite! It will be good to get some answers, once the lab results come back.

*Bed time routines*: I have a bath with Esmé at about nine o'clock. Then DP gets her into her jammies, and I lay down with her and she nurses while we read two or three books, and then I turn the light out and say, "Night night." She takes Bear and her blanket to bed with her (in our bed). She's usually asleep within about twenty minutes, at which point I can get up and hang out with DP, but more often than not, I take that time to read until DP comes to bed.


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## Everrgreen

Our bedtime routine isn't very strict. Sometimes he has a bath and afterwards he runs around naked for a while, if he doesn't have a bath then I will still wash his hands and face, then he gets his teeth brushed, then we cuddle and read until he asks to nurse, then he nurses and usually falls asleep on the boob. Sometimes he doesn't and then goes a little crazy (tired but hyper), when this happens I go get my netbook and sit there trying to ignore him (he's happy) and every few minutes asking if he wants to cuddle. In the last few weeks Royce learned how to get off the bed by himself, which has given him more ways to keep himself awake, and drag out this crazy tired spell. It was so much easier when he was trapped on the boring old bed! But, eventually he will come back and snuggle in with his head on my shoulder and fall asleep. And in some RARE situations when he is overtired/overstimulated I need to really hold him snug and he will cry but then he crashes. Royce has always been fairly easy to get to sleep, it's the STAYING asleep that we've always struggled with!


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## Nillarilla

Starling - I hope it's not a parasite and it's just some intestinal bug that will disappear shortly.

Bedtime routine - ours is super short since anything longer winds her up. She gets a new diaper, jammies, clean hands, face and teeth. Snap into grobag, kiss, give blankie and I leave. She cries for a couple minutes and then rolls over and goes to sleep. She's not upset or screaming just fussing herself to sleep.


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## Vegan Princess

Bedtime: Sometimes a bath, sometimes not. Night time diaper and PJs, nurse, brush teeth. Then Daddy puts on her sleep sack and she says goodnight to her stuffed animals and gives them each a kiss. After reading a couple books she usually points at her crib and says "ba" (bed) or "nigh nigh". So we put her in and she lays down and goes to sleep on her own. Unfortunately, she won't go down like this for naps!

Nightweanings. Hmm. 3 nights in and I'm not sure it's going so well. First night she was up a bunch early and DH had no problem getitng her back to sleep. Then up at 2 and no matter how either of us tried we couldn't get her to stay asleep. Would go to sleep but as soon as we tried to leave her room she'd get up again. Stayed up until 4ish when I brought her in our bed and she fell asleep all cuddled up on me. Didn't end up nursing until after 7. Night #2 she slept until 2 then went back down easily and slept until 5 (when she is allowed to nurse again). But last night she slept until 3 and was up until 5 with DH again. Basically until she could nurse again. Not sure how we are going to resolve this not going back to sleep and staying asleep business! Advice anyone??

Cindy


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## mckittre

Starling - hope she's better soon.

AK - yay for the end of child care and time to enjoy the summer!

justKate - if it were me, I'd get rid of the pump. But then again here I am, eating my words with no clothes smaller than 12 month size, and a new one coming in December.









Mal - glad the camping trip went well.

Speaking of camping, we're headed out on Friday for a week long backpacking trip. Husband will carry most of the stuff (while I carry Katmai and a little stuff). I'm excited, and would consider it a pretty mellow route under most circumstances. But I am wondering if 50 off trail miles in a week with a 15 month old, while pregnant, might be a little bit crazy.

Bedtime routine: Starting around 8:30 or 9 usually, we'll brush teeth, change diaper and into pjs, dad read a story, and nurse to sleep. Often, the changing clothes will agitate him enough that he won't sit for the story and wants to run straight to nursing to sleep. Sometimes that's it, but at least a third of the time he'll nurse quietly for 15 min or so then pop up and want to play. I'll try to hold him down for a while, then just let him play (I'll usually insist he gets off the bed - he loves to play on the bed and I'd rather the association be sleep).


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## Jen1409

Nicole's bedtime routine: bath, brush teeth, read 1 book and then she gets her monkey stuffed animal and goes to bed.


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## Vegan Princess

Makenna slept from 7 until 4:35 without waking last night! I let her nurse then and she went back to sleep in our bed until 7. I hope this is a new trend thanks to the night weaning, and not just a fluke!!! I'd like to wait past 4:35 to nurse...5 was my limit...but I don't think I could have gotten her back to sleep at that time without nursing? It's a good start anyway.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Seriously, your babes just lie down and go to sleep? Goodness, we are sooo far away from anything close to that.

Had no kids today and our neighbor girl who is an 8th grader has been wanting to babysit Fiona forever. I had her come over this morning while I cleaned the house. It was so cute. She brought her Red Cross bag with a first aid kit and her babysitting card. She told me she had done her red cross training and learned CPR, which is really great! I just thought it was the cutest thing! Quite the professional!









Fiona just walked up to me and handed me the child safety lock from the one kitchen cupboard we have off limits. LOL! I think she's trying to say, "Nice try Mama!"


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## Everrgreen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 

Fiona just walked up to me and handed me the child safety lock from the one kitchen cupboard we have off limits. LOL! I think she's trying to say, "Nice try Mama!"









When I first got the little outlet cover thingies, Royce would constantly pull them out and bring them to me







I stopped putting them back in because really they were just attracting him to the oulets. Now he ignores the outlets!

And, Royce doesn't just lie down and go to sleep either. I guess in those situations where he gets up and plays for a while before coming back, he will fall asleep without nursing (so, on his own in a way), but it's usually partially on me, and I can't leave the room or he will freak. I'm just lucky that I enjoy surfing on the internet because these situations can take a while! Actually that's all I'd be doing even if I wasn't in the room with him









Cindy - Oh that's awesome!! I hope it keeps up. Royce has been doing a really good stretch each night for a few weeks now. I think he's averaging 6-7 hours, maybe? I don't know what exactly the stretches are because I'm half asleep and don't check the clock.

mckittre - oh wow! That sounds like quite the camping trip, even without the toddler and being pregnant! I'm sure you'll manage it fine though







My version of camping is pulling my car into my assigned site









And I thought I'd share with all of you my gross toddler parenting moment of the day: I often change Royce's diapers on the fly, well today I went to take off his diaper which was wet, I unsnappied it and let it fall, it was poop-free, so I scooped Royce up into my arms. Well, guess who was in the middle of a poop, and guess what got all over my arm and up Royce's back







I used to be able to tell when Royce was pooping, but he's so sneaky about it now


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: OMG! Eww! But LOL!!!

So my old company called and offered me a job today. Really it's the most ideal thing I could ever hope for. Doing my old job for a different boss 20-25 hours/week from home...and I can do those hours any time (night, weekend, etc). I will need to put Makenna in daycare 2 days/week though. I can't do 25 hours of work while she is sleeping. I am excited about the job and we could really use the money right now. But I'm sad about putting her in daycare. I do think it might be good for her to be around other kids though. I am going to look at 2 in home ones. 1 reccomended by a mom in playgroup who sends her daughter 2 days/week and the other is used by my next door neighbor and was also used by 2 other neighbor girls when they were younger. It might only be a 6-9 month job too...which is actually maybe good bc then I might have a new baby. Any thoughts on whether I should do 3 shorter days or 2 long ones??? Ack this is so out of left field...but I did actually dream this a few days ago. I even told DH last night!!

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

Cindy if it was me I would do 2 longer ones. But that's coming from someone who works 4 12hr shifts in a row and then has 5 days off. I like my days off.

DH's hours are going to change and he is going to a 3 on 3 off 12hr day rotation. Which will mean we need childcare for less days but longer hours and weekends. I really hope I don't lose my childcare provider over this one. She is fabulous and says she doesn't mind the weekends and that we can figure it out but her husband is totally unhappy about it. I guess I can't control it so I'll just roll with it







. On the plus side it will mean more days off with my dh since my rotation often means we get like 4 days off a month together.

Starling how is Esme?
McKittre that sounds amazing. I hope you have a great time on your camping trip.
Gillian that's hilarious!!!! Gross but hilarious!


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## Mal85

I would also choose 2 long days over 3 short days, personally.

Starling, haven't heard anything back from you about how Esme is doing. I hope everything is alright.

Next month we get to start TTC!!







I didn't want to be pregnant when we go on vacation next month, so I've been teasing DH that we could just conceive while we were on our trip. And I looked at the calendar, and sure enough that should be my fertile week, so maybe we actually will! I've been charting since January just so I could see how my cycles were working. They're long, but they're predictable, so hopefully we won't have any problems.

Courtney, Junes inspired me with her brave swimming. I had to go get Owyn some water wings and she LOVES them! I can totally let go of her and she just floats around on her own, doesn't even want me to help her. Of course, I stay close by, but she would prefer it if I didn't!


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## Mal85

Okay, ladies, I need some ideas. I'm planning yet another baby shower and we need a crafty idea. At my baby shower we made a fairy mobile for Owyn's room. At the last one, we made a birthing necklace for the mommy. Now we're trying to come up with another crafty idea for my friend's shower next month. Any ideas?


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: At the last shower I went to they bought white bibs and onesies and set up a table with puffy paints and sparkly markers, etc and let everyone decorate as many as they chose. They set up a clothes line outside to hang them on to dry. That was fun. One of my friends from birth class had everyone help create a birthing flag. Each person decorated a square and she hung the line of flags in the room while she gave birth to look at as inspiration. It was really beautiful.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
Starling how is Esme?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
Starling, haven't heard anything back from you about how Esme is doing. I hope everything is alright.

Thanks for your concern, mamas ...








Esmé is still not well. We're hoping to hear from the lab today, or Monday, to see if it's a parasite or just a garden-variety rotavirus that she's having trouble kicking. We're laying low, and not going to any of our play spots so as not to infect other babes if, indeed, it's a norwalk or rota-type virus.

*Nilla ...* I often wonder how you manage doing the full rotation. I'll be putting in for full time when the posting comes up, and am already worrying about childcare. My partner is a chef and a girl came into her restaurant, looking to be hired for ten bucks an hour for kitchen work. She didn't hire her, because in her words, "She was a flake. Nice, but a flake." Anyway, turns out that the girl is a certified Montessori teacher! Heck, maybe we'll hire her for twelve bucks an hour to be our nanny!


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## AKislandgirl

I love the birthing flag idea! Sounds amazing. Another idea is to decorate squares with fabric pens to be made into a quilt for the baby if anyone does quilting. I did that for my wedding and had all of our guests decorate quilt squares instead of signing a guest book. I called it a guest quilt. Except... I still haven't sewn it into a quilt 5 years later!









I've been wondering about Esmé too. I hope she's doing alright Starling.

Mal: How exciting to be TTC so soon! That is fantastic!

Well, I haven't been charting yet but just paying attention to cervical mucus and position and I actually was having really fertile cervical mucus. I noticed it last month too and right on track got AF two weeks later. Sooo... I made sure that we DTD!







I really don't want to get too excited about this since I went through so many years of heartache TTC. But maybe, I am ovulating on my own and I can get pregnant the old fashioned way. Just maybe!

Today is my last day of child care! Hello Summer Vacation, it is so nice to see you!!!!


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## Everrgreen

2 years ago today I found out I was pregnant







I can't believe that was 2 YEARS ago!! It was such a wonderful day









AK - Woohoo!! Summer vacation!!

Starling - I'm so sorry to hear that Esme is still sick, poor baby! Hopefully you get some answers soon









Mal - I also like the birthing flag idea, that would be cool! Is she planning a homebirth? My friend whose birth I attended had a hospital birth and they were crazy strict, I really doubt they would have allowed a flag like that... or anything...

Cindy - How exciting about your job op! I agree with the all the 2 long days votes, I think. Maybe you could test it out and see how it goes and then switch if the days are just too long? And that's so cool that you dreamed about it! I have crazy psychic dreams like that once in a while too, so weird!


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy, I vote for two days too. The way I see it is if she were there for just mornings she would come home and nap for a bit. With the two day thing you would still have 3 weekday mornings a week to get out and about and spend fun time together. Congratulations! Sounds great!


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## Nillarilla

I like the birth quilt idea and also the onesies. I did that for a shower for a friend and her babe has personalized onesies until he's 2 now. Some turned out really cute too.

Starling - Sending healing baby vibes your way. As for how I manage... I have a partner who is fabulous and really puts in 110% with the kids and the house and the cooking. I also have a very reliable, capable sitter that I totally absolutely trust. That's how I do it. I can go to work and feel good about where my kids are at. My kids are clingy my first day off and then they settle down. However I do not work nights and I really think that makes a difference. My first day off is a full day and I don't need to sleep. My house really looks like several cataclysmic bombs went off when I am done my set and I am really debating getting a housekeeper. But with dh changing his rotation so maybe between us things can be cleaner?

Cindy congrats on the job offer.


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## Vegan Princess

OMG! DH and I are throwing in the towel!! DD wins on the night time sleep issues. Last night she was up from 11:45 until 3:30 and then only went back down until 4:45 before waking again. She WILL NOT go back to sleep once we leave the room. We literally tried everything last night. So today we put our mattress on the floor and decided that she'll just have to come in our bed if she won't go back down alone and if she won't sleep she can crawl off and play but at least we can sleep. And perhaps she will crawl off and play on those mornings that she wakes super early. We'll see how this goes. She is not used to just lying down and going to sleep in our bed. She is usually nursed to sleep in our bed. So that will take adjustment too. Ugh! Ugh! Ugh!! But instinctively this feels right. I feel awful making my 16 month old stay in her room alone when she clearly does not want to be alone. Wasn't so much of an issue when she was allowed to nurse at night. I suppose I could give in on that but I do think she is old enough to not have to nurse so I would rather not budge on that one.

Still waiting to hear back about the compensation for the job so I am a bit on pins and needles. If it doens't work out that is fine though since I wasn't even looking. Looked at 1 in home daycare on Friday. I wouldn't be 100% happy to leave my infant there but I think I am ok leaving my toddler. They seemed to be doing a good job - just no way a baby could get the same attention as from momma when they have 4 other kiddos there. There are 2 adults and up to 6 kids. 2 babies and the rest toddlers. Does that sound ok? Seems ok to me.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy, are your nights getting any better?

I know that I'm in for it tonight. Fiona just fell asleep at 6:00. She's going to wake up ready and raring and be up till midnight for sure. I'm going to start making a bunch of noise to wake her here in a few minutes...

Well, DH left this week for his 3.5 week fishing trip. We can email every few days but we won't have any phone contact. Ugh... I hate when he's gone for so long. I hope the days go by fast!!!


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## Vegan Princess

AKIsland: 3.5 weeks? Ouch! I hope the time goes quickly for you. At least it's summer so you can get out and fill your days better.

So we put the mattress on the floor 2 nights ago. The 1st night she slept in her crib until midnight then I brought her to my bed and she snuggled into me and was asleep within 10 minutes. Unfortunately we had to wake her bc we smelled poo. After the diaper change she was crying to nurse and after telling her nursies were sleeping I pretended to be asleep...so she went to sleep. All in all, it went MUCH better than being up with her for hours. I don't feel as bad when she is crying bc I know I am right there for her. I also like sleeping with her much better now that she is not attached to my boob the entire time she is in our bed. And last night she actually slept through the night in her own crib! Until 4:45...which was when she decided she was up for the day. Who knows if it was a fluke or if she may actually start sleeping now that she isn't nursing?

Today we had a playdate with a mom and baby we met in the park. She is a member on mothering.com...funny bc we were supposed to meet as part of a meetup through the tribal area but ended up meeting randomly before that! Anyway, her little guy is only 1 month older and already 100% potty trained, eats with a spoon off of ceramic dishes and drinks from glasses all on his own. I was majorly impressed!

Cindy


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## Jen1409

already potty trained? WOW

wanted to share a recent photo of Nicole with you all
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...DSC02224-1.jpg

and my first tattoo
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...tattoowolf.jpg


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## Mal85

Nicole is such a cutie! And I love the tattoo. I want to get another, but I can't decide on a design. I want some kind of tree with Owyn's birthday "carved" into the bark (I'd go back and add my other kid's birthdays when I have them). I just don't know where to put it or how to design it.

I feel like I already have a two year old. Her tantrums are awful! She's been extra sensitive the last week with her molars coming in. She's only been working on them for 2 months! Finally they are poking through so she's been a little better yesterday and today, but I seriously thought I was going to lose my mind this weekend. The whining... I feel like I have a little puppy dog following me around everywhere, but no it's Owyn!

And she gets SO mad if she can't have/do something she wants. Yesterday, she wouldn't stop climbing, so I put the dining room chairs away to keep her off the table. She got so mad she was biting the table and her own arms! She has just started this biting herself when she's mad. Then she gets even more upset because she hurts herself. I just don't know what to do when she gets that upset.

My daycare girl has been gone for over a week and is back today. They quickly went from a warm welcome back to screaming and fighting over everything. Oh so much fun.


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## Nillarilla

Mal I hear you on the tantrums. Delia smacks her head when she's irritated. She's started the bursts of angry screams where her face turns purple. I ask her when the sobbing starts if she is all done and needs a hug now. She won't let me touch her during the fits so I just stand by and say "I see you are angry now. I will wait". I am actually handling them a lot better now. My ds however is still having trouble not giving her everything she's screaming at him for. I'm trying to instill in him that she will never speak nicely if that is how she gets things. It is pretty hard to ignore though.
It's been miserable weather here and we are cooped up. My kids are at daycare today for half the day since I have an education session this morning and then they are there tommorow since I have to work a shift for a coworker and she's taking one of mine next week. So this week they are in daycare 3 days and then next week not at all. Ah well c'est la vie.
My SIL just moved to Calgary yesterday. So we are all a little sad around here. We are going to miss her.
Oh and my ds chopped his bangs to the roots because they were bugging him. Could be worse he could have chopped Delia's baby curls.
Cindy I am glad your nights are improving.
Well off to work I go.


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## Vegan Princess

Nicole is beautiful!

Mal: I feel ya! We had a few days that were really bad. Thankfully Makenna is mostly back to herself for now though.

Makenna slept through the night again in her own crib until 4:20. Not as late as I'd like but I'd def say 7-4:20 is through the night! She did go back to sleep for an hour or so in my bed...until she pooped again. She's had diarrhea the past few days. Poor baby! Maybe she caught it from Esme. Speaking of...How is Esme doing??

Cindy


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## justKate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
Delia smacks her head when she's irritated. She's started the bursts of angry screams where her face turns purple. I ask her when the sobbing starts if she is all done and needs a hug now. She won't let me touch her during the fits so I just stand by and say "I see you are angry now. I will wait". I am actually handling them a lot better now.

Yep, that's Aubrey. Trying to comfort her just makes it worse. I sit there on the floor and offer arms if she looks to me. The day/evening ones are okay but the nighttimes are still awful. I don't want to be a complainer but our night times are _horrific_. I don't even like to think about it, but maybe it will make you gals feel better....?









Basically the hysterical screaming/tantruming begins the moment I try to lay her down in the evening for even a minute (even in my arms, infront of the TV where she KNOWS she won't fall asleep, or to be carried up the stairs, or for a diaper change). This includes holding breath, gouging eyes (both of ours), pulling her hair, banging head on wall, and other means of attempted baby suicide. Then bath, which is thrilling and exciting (as if she wasn't just losing her mind a minute ago). Then boobies in our bed, followed by hysterical tantruming (as above) when the boobies go night-night (and they're so empty at this point! Like flapjacks). Holding her down, screaming when I don't; screaming when i do; telling her she's going to go in her crib; on and on and on. Then intermittent screaming through the night if/when she wakes without a boobie nearby. Ugh. We've tried everything. Fortunately she'll have her OT evaluation soon, and hopefully that will lead to some strategies to avoid sensory overload 500 x daily. I think that's the root of the problem.

Cindy, the job offer sounds perfect. I'm jealous! I'd go with 2 days/week too. And Makenna might really like the extra time with other little ones--I'm sure it will work out really well.

Mal, Cindy, AK--I'm excited that you guys are TTC, (or at least thinking of it). I've thought of it lots too, but Huz is not really on board, and with a move coming up for us (again) and the "issues" we have with Aubs, I can't see complicating things any further at this point. So I'm back to thinking that we'll just have them further apart than planned, but hey. Plans change, right?

Jen, Nicole is a cutie!

Our contribution to the EWW theme: Aubrey thinks it is hilarious to pluck Daddy's leg hairs out and eat them. She smacks her lips as if they are delicious and looks for our reaction. Where do they get this stuff?!

That's it for now, back to work....


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## starling&diesel

Hi all ... Esmé is finally on the mend from her tummy bug. Never heard back from the lab, so I'm assuming it was a rota/norwalk-type virus, especially because it flattened me a couple of days after we went to the doctor. I have never had such an explosive rear end!







It lasted for over a week! I'm just now daring to be more than a few metres from any given toilet.

But, now we've all got colds.









I'm not juggling work/writing/mothering very well. Not sure what can give, as we need all the income that I bring in. I'm feeling very down about being spread so thin, and not bringing my best to what I do on any given day. I can't see my way to a second child because of this ... there's just not enough of me to go around.

As for night times ... those are getting frustrating too. Esmé hangs off the boob ALL NIGHT LONG. I finally had enough last night and put on a t-shirt and told her that her num-nums went night-night. She pitched a fit, but was so close to sleep that she screamed for about five minutes and then fell asleep. She nursed again at two and six. That's better than all friggin' night.

For those of you planning/expecting number two ... does it scare you at all? Because I cannot for the life of me see how a second small child would find any space in this busy, exhausted family living in 900 sq. feet of space.

Man. I'm tired. Can you tell?


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## Everrgreen

justKate - Oh, big big







s I hope the OT appt goes well and you can get some answers. It must be so frustrating for you (and I'm sure for her as well).

And, your eww story is soooo gross! You'll have to tell her that one when she's older!

Starling - Big







s for you too! I'm sorry you guys are all feeling down. Try not to beat yourself up too much, things always seem so much worse when you're not feeling well. And, also, making decisions about having a second baby probably shouldn't be done when you are sick and tired







I hope you all feel better soon!!

Royce doesn't at all tantrum like some of yours seem to be doing. He's fairly easy to distract. He does get pretty whiney sometimes though. When that happens I just start singing 'it's a hard knock life for Royce...etc', that may be more for me to keep from losing it







It works though!

Speaking of singing, the other day I was singing 'dancing with myself' to him and he started dancing







I thought it was pretty funny. Apparently he must like my singing! He also started dancing when I played on his little drum set.


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## Mal85

Starling, I'm sorry things are rough for you guys right now. I do get overwhelmed at times. I just remember how quickly this last two years has gone by... from finding out I was pregnant and meeting all of you on here, to giving birth and the first year of being a parent. This time is so fleeting. Our little ones have already grown so much, so fast. She won't be hanging on your boob forever, even if it seems like she will right now.









When it comes to number 2... it helps that my good friend just had a baby and another friend is due in August. I see how exciting this time is for them and watch the new baby as he discovers the world. It seriously makes my ovaries twinge and I can't wait to do all that again.

We all had plans of having kids together and getting our families together with parties and trips and play dates. And now it's all happening, it's so exciting to be in a place I've only dreamed about before. When it's hard, I just remind myself that I'm young and I'm just getting started... I have so much more to look forward to when it comes to my family.

Although, with the fits Owyn has been having lately it is a little daunting to think about doing it with 2. I'm hoping this part may be a little easier with number 2. At least then they'll have each other to play with and bug each other. I can hope right... at least I know it'll be different.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: Glad you guys are passing the tummy troubles. Hope the colds pass soon too! I sure hope I don't get M's tummy troubles!! Perhaps you are feeling spread thin bc you are so run down right now? Hopefully you'll feel more energetic and positive when you are well again. As for #2, we are trying and I am thrilled by the idea of a tiny baby but I am scared to death about how it will be. M is so attached...needs to nap on me, etc...not sure how I will manage with 2. But I'm sure I will. And they don't stay tiny for very long. It might be a rough year or 2 but then they will be much easier and be able to play together. As for the nursing - you should just keep trying to night ween. Sounds like it went well if she only cried for 5 minutes! Makenna slept through the night in her own bed for a 3rd night (until 4) and then slept next to me for an hour after I said nursies were still sleeping. I do think she would sleep later except she is waking up w/poop every morning. Anyway, I'm thinking the night weaning may actually have taken now!!

Just talked to the guy at my old co wo wants me to work for him. Need to wait until middle of next week to hear if it is a go and if they'll pay me what I want. Ugh - I'm anxious to know if I am going to be working or not! And to figure out daycare! I hope the spot at the place I like so far isn't filled by then.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

It seems lots of hugs need to go around. JustKate: It sounds so frustrating for you guys right now. I really hope that you get your eval soon and they have some good techniques to help Aubrey. Starling: Sorry that you are all still sick but at least the stomach bug seems to be on the mend. I agree that big decisions are not to be made when you are sick! Hope you are feeling better soon!

I completely understand the feeling of being overwhelmed and stretched thin. That is how I was feeling with daycare. Like I wasn't doing great for the kids, I wasn't being a very good parent to Fi, and I certainly wasn't being a very good partner to DH. Uggh! I'm now on break which is wonderful but DH is gone for the whole month... that part sucks.

And being scared about fitting in another baby... YES! I do wonder how we will do it and still be the loving, patient, fun parents that we strive to be. I don't want to just feel like I'm coming up for air all the time. But I remind myself that Fiona will be a whole lot older (look how much she's changed in this past year!) and her needs will be different. And with my age and fertility issues its not going to get any easier to get pregnant so I feel a bit like its now or never. Another thing is that we are hoping to make a major move in the next couple of years to be closer to my family. I do think that will make things easier with 2. We'll find our rhythm, however crazy that may be and know that there will be hard times but the fun and love will outweigh those times!


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## Thursday Girl

i am so sorry I have abandoned you ladies for mynew obsession (backyadrchickens.com) I have been spending wayy too muhc time there, and trying to actually keep up witht hings aorund the house. DH is out of town again adn it's the last week of school so pretty crazy. Junes has become a constant nurser which was fine yesterday when I had a plugged duct but has been totally annoying last night and today.
Off to catch up on what has been happening with all of you.


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## Nillarilla

Justkate I hope you get some tips on how to make your lives easier and your daughter calmer. Please share when you get them. I'm interested.

Starling hugs to you. I know what it's like to feel stretched to the max. I was studying for a certification exam, working fulltime and being a mama to 2. Yep I was stretched. Made me realize I really can't feasible go back to school just yet. I need to wait until we have kids in school at least.
As for adding another. I've finally hit my groove in the last couple months with 2 but let me tell you it's a lot easier with sleep. I nightweaned Delia at 11months which is early I know but it was necessary for sanity. She didn't suffer any and is still a chunky monkey. It was hard when she was tiny but now it's a lot easier. We've found our rhythm and I make sure my ds gets his snuggles and mama time even though he hardly ever asks for it. For a while there I did think I was going to go crazy with sleep exhaustion and nursing demands and tantrums and accidents but it was a short while in the scheme of things. It's such an incredibly special, heartwarming thing to watch my kids together. They truly love each other and they hug and giggle and of course fight and smack. The other day we were at the park and a little girl was picking on my dd. She was about 2 and the mom was not paying much attention. My ds wanted to follow her and tell her to bug off because "her was hurting my sister. Nobody hurts my sister!" I don't know where he got this but it must be inherent that only he can hurt his sister and everybody else better buzz off.


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## starling&diesel

Thanks for all the kind reassurances, mamas!








I do feel stretched thin.
In my previous just-my-dog-and-me twenties, this is when I would decide to up and move to a cute, small town for a change of pace, new surroundings, fresh start and a reminder of what is important in life.
Now, it's too hard to do that.
We have roots here, whether I want them or not. Jobs, family, resources.
I don't know how to manage my itchy feet, how to balance my wanderlust with the necessity of having a routine.
I'm the kid who sees an ad for a general store for sale on a tiny island somewhere and decides that I've always wanted to be a shopkeeper and so off I go and buy myself a store and set to running it like it's always been my dream even though I only came up with the idea last week.
I'm used to the only constant in my life being my dog.
Now my constant is Esmé ... and instead of wanting to stay put and make a solid life for her here, I want to pack her into a converted bus and take her on the road, with my partner at the wheel!
When will I ever grow up and settle down?
I think I'm among the oldest in this DDC, and yet I feel like all you wise mamas are light years ahead of me in grace and sensibility.
You all rock.


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## Thursday Girl

Erin, How exciting!! Congratulations, and have fun on your camping trip.

Okay I am all caught up now!

so yesterday my two older girls were playing a game that ended with the middlest getting a broom to the face, a push broom too so it was big and heavy. We ended up goign to the ER (me and all 3 girls since dh is out of town on business again) and Josephine got 2 sticthes in her cheek. She did great, all 3 behaved, and the nurses were in love with them. We GOT to the ER at bedtime, and then it was LATE by the time we got home. Junes has got a cold now and kept me up half the night. I am TIRED!

BUT I fixed our washign machine today. super proud of myself!

bedtime. we have no real routine for Junes she still nurses down at night. The older girls get a bath, brushed teeth, books, and bed. Junes gets those things, but boob is in as well. I will ween her off the nursing to sleep thing when she is 2 i think.


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## AKislandgirl

Courtney, i saw the pictures of your lo. Glad she is doing ok, poor girl! And are you over the plugged duct thing? I hope so! You've had a time of it these past few days! By the way... love backyardchicken.com!









Starling: i feel like I could have written your last post. Oh to head off to run the store on the island. YES! Sign me up. Drive across the country with my family discovering all there is out there. YES! Sign me up. I think growing up is over rated and I would advise against it!

Our big plan is to move to Washington or Oregon, back to my old stomping grounds and buy a huge chunk of land. I've wanted a small farm forever and DH finally said, "Lets quit dreaming about it and make it happen!" God I love him. He's a fisheries biologist and was just funded for some big multi year projects. The plan is to stay here while he finishes those and save money. Meanwhile we'll be paying attention to job opps and land prices down south. We have a family friend that we could potentially buy from in the same area as my parents and sister. Oh how I would love to live there! BUT, the job opps are nill for DH. So I just have to keep looking and hope that something will work out for us.


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## Thursday Girl

starling I'd totally wander around but dh is far to practical for that. When I suggest dropping everything and moving to wa state, even when he was unemployed at the moment AND his dad said we could stay with him, he just couldn't do it. My MIL played beautifully into his practical nature and signed a house over to us, we took over payments and have to pay the what's been paid into it back when we sell. Having a house really keeps chris in place, especially since a)it needs to be fixed up so he doesn't want to sell until it's fixed and we can get more money for it b)since she bought it back before the house prices rose we are paying an amount NOONE else in our generation is paying for our mortgage.

Of course now he has started a business so we really aren't going anywhere, which is a shame b/c florida kind of sucks. Of course now I am committed to staying b/c I have plans to satrt the midwifery school nearby.


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## Everrgreen

Thursday - I also saw poor Josie on fb, I hope she is feeling better!

I think my hopes and dreams at the moment are for some stability! After university my husband and I got married and we have moved around all over ever since. First we moved to NC to follow his dreams (which was a wonderful experience that I wouldn't trade!), then back to our hometown, then moved 5 hours away, and now we're back home. Plus with our marriage being so messy at the moment it just feels like I'm in limbo-land all the time. My fantasy is for everything with my husband to work out, and for us to buy a house, and be NORMAL. That would be so so wonderful.

I guess the grass always seems greener on the other side, right?

I am considering becoming a certified postpartum doula (maybe also birth doula). I would absolutely LOVE to become a midwife. But the schools for that here in Ontario are too far away from me, I would have to move (again), plus I'm not sure how I would balance it with either single motherhood or my husband's frequent work-travel (whichever happens). I could only take birth doula clients with due dates in the winter when my husband doesn't travel, so that is why postpartum doula-ing would be a better fit right now. I think becoming a doula would be a good stepping stone to midwifery. And then relook at midwifery once Royce (and future children) are all grown up.


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
Thursday - I also saw poor Josie on fb, I hope she is feeling better!

I think my hopes and dreams at the moment are for some stability! After university my husband and I got married and we have moved around all over ever since. First we moved to NC to follow his dreams (which was a wonderful experience that I wouldn't trade!), then back to our hometown, then moved 5 hours away, and now we're back home. Plus with our marriage being so messy at the moment it just feels like I'm in limbo-land all the time. My fantasy is for everything with my husband to work out, and for us to buy a house, and be NORMAL. That would be so so wonderful.

I guess the grass always seems greener on the other side, right?

I am considering becoming a certified postpartum doula (maybe also birth doula). I would absolutely LOVE to become a midwife. But the schools for that here in Ontario are too far away from me, I would have to move (again), plus I'm not sure how I would balance it with either single motherhood or my husband's frequent work-travel (whichever happens). I could only take birth doula clients with due dates in the winter when my husband doesn't travel, so that is why postpartum doula-ing would be a better fit right now. I think becoming a doula would be a good stepping stone to midwifery. And then relook at midwifery once Royce (and future children) are all grown up.

I really think I want to be a birth doula as well, maybe a postpartum doula. I haven't actually seen or had experience with a doula IRL though. I am attending my friend's homebirth in August and she is having a doula so I'll get to see it in action. I'll wait until then to really decide if it's something I want to do. I have a strong passion for it, I'm just not sure if I have the right kind of personality for it.

I took Owyn and my daycare girl to the swimming pool here in town today. I ended up with 6 of my nieces and nephews as well!! Luckily I was able to get my sister, mom, and a good friend to come with us. I could not have handled all of that by myself. We had 2 10 y/o, an 8 y/o, 2 4 y/o, and 3 1.5 y/o. Wow! It was exhausting, but lots of fun. We'll have to make many more trips there this summer! We have family friends who have a private pool they allow us to use anytime we want to. But they are doing construction on their house right now, so they're not opening it until the 4th of July. That's a bummer for now, but I can't wait to spend time there the rest of the summer!


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## Mal85

Oh, and as for all the moving... I was born in the town I live in and have only moved once. When I was 10 months old, we moved across town. Oh, and I moved in with my husband when we got married. That's all. A little boring, but DH and I both have strong roots here. We have no intentions of ever living anywhere else. I do get a little envious of people that get out and see the country or the world, but I really am perfectly happy here. I kind of hope at least one of my kids travels though, I'd like to go visit them in more exotic places.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: I'm jealous that you are in the same town as all your family! I can't even imagine how life would be if I could visit my family, my mom especially, whenever I wanted! Or actually have someone babysit from time to time.

I do love where I live though. I doubt we will ever move back to San Diego, which is where I am from. We talk about a big move to North Carolina where we could easily afford a house. But I sort of doubt it will ever happen. Which makes me happy and sad at the same time.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Any creative father day gift ideas? DH will still be out at sea but we'll celebrate when he gets home. So far I've thought about getting him the book Encyclopedia of Country Living so he can read up on all the country stuff he and Fiona are going to be busy with. It might be one of those gifts thats for me though!







I think I need another idea!


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Wow, that is really cool! I do like living in new places once in a while, but it would be nice to have a really close knit family like that. I'm not really that close to my parents or my brother. My parents separated when I was pregnant and the whole family kind of fell apart after that. It sucks









And I have also never seen a real doula in action. But I acted as doula for my friend. I think I did a good job for her (if I do say so myself







) I really did not like the hospital environment and the staff though, so that would be a pain to deal with regularly. I think being a doula to someone having a homebirth or even just using midwives would be a lot nicer! But the people using doctors are probably the ones who most need a doula. For my friend's birth the nurses only popped their heads in the door every couple of hours and the rest of the time she was on her own. I'm glad I was there for her, I don't know how women do it who don't have proper support!

Cindy - I LOVED living in NC. I lived just north of Charlotte. The people were all so nice, the weather was fantastic (compared to Canada), the shopping was great (again, compared to Canada), and yes the cost of living was great. Plus we could drive to the mountains in under 2 hours, and the coast was only about 4 hours. We travelled a lot to the SC coast, which I really love. I could definitely retire there!

If there was some Canadian land further south I would definitely move there.


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: We just booked a vacation on the SC coast for september. DH's brother lives in SC. I'm looking forward to seeing it. The area we'd be moving to is Chapel Hill. DH lived there for 5yrs before moving to California. Problem is, compared to California, the weather sucks! That is my big concern. Its way hotter and humid. We don't have humidity here and I absolutely HATE humidity! Also our winters are super mild here and NC gets some snow and ice...but I don't think that would be too bad to deal with. I'm scared of the heat and the mosquitos that come with the humidity. Mosquitos LOVE me and I get quarter sized welts from the bites. I have no idea how I'd deal with that all the time? But otherwise, it's beautiful there! LOL! Anyway, I guess there is a reason it's cheaper than CA, right?

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Yeah I guess it's a lot different comparing NC to Canada vs California! The winters do get cool (I won't say cold







), I think we would get snow 2-3 times in the winter but it was always gone as soon as the sun came out (although schools would still be closed, which I found hilarious!). And the summers were HOT it was what I would call 'summer' weather by the end of March. I never noticed mosquitos, I think it got too hot too quickly for them. Where I live now they can drag on all summer because it never usually gets hot enough to keep them away. Anyway, I hope you enjoy your SC trip - I'm jealous!


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## Mal85

Father's Day: I had a gift idea... something DH has been asking for the last couple of Christmases but never got bought. But, he decided he wanted to buy some supplies to brew beer and make that his Father's Day gift. So, he's going to spend his day brewing, which is his favorite thing to do, so it works.

My IL's are planning a trip to San Francisco this fall and invited us to go with them, free of charge!







I'm pretty excited about it. California is one of the only places in the country I haven't visited and I've always wanted to, especially San Francisco. Hopefully it all works out and we get to go!


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## Everrgreen

Alright, I have a parenting question for everyone! How is discipline going? Do you bother at all? I am having an issue with Royce thinking everything is funny







Like when I tell him 'no don't stick the key into the outlet' he laughs and keeps trying to do it. Anything I say 'no' to makes him laugh and try and be sneaky about doing it. Obviously I am physically stopping him from dangerous things (and I have come to realize I may need to get some outlet covers that actually work). He also is becoming a 'runner' anytime we are in public he is eager to take off - laughing the whole time. The other issue is when getting dressed, he thinks it's some sort of game to make it as difficult for me as possible and he thinks its funny. And to be honest, he is so cute when he does these things that it makes it hard for me to actually be mad at him. But it would be nice if he could listen to me when I say no. Maybe he senses that I'm not *actually* angry? Maybe I need to pretend to be really mad?







I don't know...

Is there anything I can do at this age to teach him some simple rules?


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: I live just outside San Francisco and lived in the city for 5 yrs until DD was 3 months old. If you book your trip out here, let me know and I can offer up suggestions of things to do with Owyn, etc.

Gillian: I have the same problem. Makenna either just laughs in my face or says "no no" back to me. Other than redirecting, I'm not sure what works at this age? I'd love to hear if anyone has suggestions though!

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

Gillian - At this age I just avoid the situations that cause frustration. Like the running in public I would use the stroller, carrier, shopping carts in anywhere I wouldn't consider running appropriate. If running was appropriate just not away from me I would run from him and get him to chase me. The outlet covers have you tried these ones? I love them. What works for me for dressing is I ask her if she can help me put her clothes on and I ask her to raise certain body parts or point to them. With my son I would be goofy and look through the head hole of the shirt and he would laugh and then I'd slip it over his head really fast and then ask where his fingers where I needed to nibble them and he would put his hands out. I avoid the situations I can and I make the ones we have to do fun somehow.
I haven't fixed the bath thing yet other than we sing the same song and one parent holds while the other washes and then out in 5 minutes and then we sit in the bathroom until she calms down and then make a point of leaving the bathroom on a happy note.
Mal congrats on the trip. Sounds fabulous!
For father's day I think dh is getting a french press and some bbq parts and maybe an apron that says "You can help me by getting OUT of MY kitchen!"


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## AKislandgirl

OMG I love that apron! Where can I get one?! DH is such the alpha cook that he would totally love that!

Gillian, I totally get your need for stability right now. How are things going with your DH? Things getting any better?

Mal, I'm trying not to be too jealous of the fact that your family is all around you. That is what I would really love right now!

I do my best to avoid the conflicts as well. Redirection, playing it up. I tend to just move her from the top of the table then really talk about! She tells me nooo all the time so i think I was saying it too much. I'm trying harder to say yes! You can...fill in the blank. I also find that if she helps she's less likely to protest. If she washes her hands under the sink she'll go for it, but if we use a washcloth she'll scream. Woosh this stage is challenging!


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## mckittre

Wow, gone for a week, and there's a lot to catch up on!

Katmai did wonderfully with a week of backpacking. He had a great time learning edible plants, learning to walk over rough terrain, throwing sticks and rocks, and being outside so much that he didn't have to ask "outside! outside! (actually sounds like "aits!") all day long like he does at home. I think he picked up at least a half dozen new words as well. We did well too, I carried Katmai on my back through quite a bit of thick brush with no damage to either of us, we kept the mosquitoes off him most of the time, and between my husband's big pack and my fanny pack and front pouch, we managed to carry a week of food and gear (including a raft) without too much trouble. Now can I do the same when I'm 5 months pregnant? When we have 2?

Starling: Speaking as someone who wasn't exactly planning on another right away, I am a bit nervous about how we're going to make it work with two. Not so much the space, but the time and lifestyle issues. But I think it'll be good. And we have no plans to stop adventuring and grow up any time soon - we just integrate the little ones into the adventure. Katmai will be backpacking well over a month this summer, we might live a few months on a glacier with both of them next summer.

But I've got the best of both worlds, really. A great place to live with family nearby (grandma next door) and strong community connections, and also a lot of opportunity for adventure.

Gillian: For discipline, I find that telling Katmai what TO do, works much better. Rather than "no throwing rocks at mama" I say "we don't throw rocks at mama, we throw rocks in the water" or I tell him which direction TO go, what he CAN do with the thing he's got, something else he can play with etc... I find that he follows my suggestions most of the time with few issues. But he doesn't tantrum much either. I think he might be unusually compliant for his age. Of course, he has his things - can't get him to do anything but scream in the bath for the life of me.

Anyone else's kid having problems figuring out the limits of parental omnipotence? Katmai is constantly asking for more of anything he likes... "more quack!" "more berries!" "more stick!" etc... We keep trying to tell him we can't magically materialize ducks, make more airplanes take off, etc... But he keeps asking.


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## AKislandgirl

Erin, so glad that you had a great trip! It sounds awesome! I'm sure that Katmai loved being outside so much. Fiona would fit right in with him I think. She always wants to be "side" (outside). Me, I don't think I could keep up with you mama! You are amazing!

Big news here... drum roll, Fiona peed AND pooped on the potty today! i was changing her diaper this morning and she started to pee so I said lets sit on the potty. (we've been sitting for a while now, just no action!). She loves to sit. We have one of those seats that goes on a regular toilet. She was sitting and chatting with me and I'd ask her if she was all done, and she say and sign more. So we sat some more. Then she went!







I'm so proud of her! DH isn't even in town to exclaim over his baby so I have to do it here.

Well, I'm off to clean the house while Fi plays with the neighbor girl!


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## Nillarilla

Fiona!


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## Vegan Princess

Yay Fiona!! That's excellent!

Nilla: Thanks for the clothes changing tips...they came in handy this morning. Makenna normally is fine for getting dressed but this morning she kept saying "no no" about most of the things I picked out. Your tips helped!

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

OMG we just had the biggest poosplosion ever







. She woke up from her nap and her entire outfit, the sheets and blankets and her hands were covered. There was no choice but go to the bath. So any progress we had made with the bath is probably gone now. I had to put her in fully clothed and well she was not impressed.


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## mckittre

Yay Fiona! I have not even purchased a potty for Katmai yet (though we let him wander the yard diaperless sometimes). I've been saying I should get to that for months.

Here's a picture of Katmai bushwhacking on our wilderness trip:


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## Thursday Girl

ahh nilla that sucks, so sorry.

Erin, you will do it and you will handle doing ti with 2 beautifully. you are one of the most amazing mommas I know. When you have two youwill keep doing the same things you ae doing now, and you will handle it b/c that's just how it goes.

junes won't go on thepotty, she pees near it instead. I kind of think I should get her a smaller potty b/c she can't get on hers with out help. it always scoots backwords when she tries.


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thursday Girl* 
We ended up goign to the ER (me and all 3 girls since dh is out of town on business again) and Josephine got 2 sticthes in her cheek.

How is little Josephine healing up?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
I am considering becoming a certified postpartum doula (maybe also birth doula). I would absolutely LOVE to become a midwife. But the schools for that here in Ontario are too far away from me, I would have to move (again), plus I'm not sure how I would balance it with either single motherhood or my husband's frequent work-travel (whichever happens).

What about when Royce is in school? Be a doula now, then do the hard work when he's in school? If it is a dream of yours, it will all work out. I bet you'll make a great doula (and midwife too!)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
I really think I want to be a birth doula as well, maybe a postpartum doula. I haven't actually seen or had experience with a doula IRL though. I am attending my friend's homebirth in August and she is having a doula so I'll get to see it in action. I'll wait until then to really decide if it's something I want to do. I have a strong passion for it, I'm just not sure if I have the right kind of personality for it.

I think postpartum doulas are a great thing ... especially for mamas who don't have family nearby. I hope you have a great experience at your friend's birth!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
Oh, and as for all the moving... I was born in the town I live in and have only moved once.

There is a certain stone-smooth beauty to this. I envy your roots. Part of me wishes for this in a big way. Part of me would be terrified at the thought.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Any creative father day gift ideas?

We celebrate my partner on Father's day, even though she is 'baba' to Esmé. I'm hoping to get her a hand-stamped medallion for her keychain that says "Proud Baba to Esmé" or some such thing.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
Alright, I have a parenting question for everyone! How is discipline going? Do you bother at all?

Like other's have said, we do a lot of positive framing, vocalizing what she CAN do versus what she CAN'T do. Does it work all the time? No. Do I remember to do that all the time? No. I'm not sold on the avoidance of situations where Esmé will test, because I do think that it's important for her to learn appropriate boundaries. So sometimes we get a cookie at the bakery on the way home, and sometimes we don't. This is very hard for Esmé. For things like throwing food on the flood, I try to get her to throw it onto a plate instead. Sometimes she does, sometimes she adds a little extra fling while she aims it at the floor.
Time to pick our battles?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 

Katmai did wonderfully with a week of backpacking. He had a great time learning edible plants, learning to walk over rough terrain, throwing sticks and rocks, and being outside so much that he didn't have to ask "outside! outside! (actually sounds like "aits!") all day long like he does at home.

Your trek sounded AWESOME! I am in love with your life as I know it. Can I have it? Teasing ... sort of.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Big news here... drum roll, Fiona peed AND pooped on the potty today!

Yay, Fiona! Esmé has become totally phobic of anything remotely resembling a potty. I foresee a loooooooonnnngggg hard road to potty learning. Many more months (years?) of washing those dipes!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
OMG we just had the biggest poosplosion ever







. She woke up from her nap and her entire outfit, the sheets and blankets and her hands were covered. There was no choice but go to the bath. So any progress we had made with the bath is probably gone now. I had to put her in fully clothed and well she was not impressed.

Blech. Uber blech. Is she feeling okay? Too many berries?


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## Everrgreen

Thanks for all the discipline advice. Sometimes I feel like I say no too much, I'm going to try rephrasing things as much as possible (I hate hearing myself say no all the time!) It feels sort of wrong to be mad at him for some of the things he does when he is clearly having so much fun! I do have the book Playful Parenting but I haven't read it yet, I should do that!

mckittre - great photo! That boy is having quite the childhood already, he's very lucky!

Nilla - Oh gross! Hopefully you can continue to make progress with the baths. Summer is the worst time to develop a bath aversion, this is the first time I've noticed my darling baby getting stinky on a daily basis!

AK - woohoo! Way to go Fiona!! The other day Royce peed on the floor then carried his potty over next to it and pointed. It was pretty funny, and hopefully a step in the potty learning direction! I try and leave him naked a lot so I can catch him peeing, but once I put him on the potty he won't go









As for me and my dh, as of today it isn't going well. I found out from my sil that he has been lying to me about some pretty big stuff. So I think it may be over for good. I'm sort of in shock about it but also I guess on some level I knew. I just don't understand why he is continuing to lie. I still haven't confronted him. Ugh... Sometimes I really hate my life.

And I hate that I'm always such a downer on here, sorry about that.


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## AKislandgirl

I'm excited about our future doulas and midwives! So cool!

Gillian, I am so sorry about your DH. I can't imagine how you are feeling right now. I often think about you and find your strength amazing! You are such a good Mama to Royce. I know that it probably doesn't feel like it right now, but you will start to feel better and be able to pick up and make a life for you and Royce that you do love. I really believe that. Please know that we are all here for you and you can come vent any time. Really! Big







Mama!


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## Ghislaine

Hi all!

I haven't been around in forever but recently started coming back to these discussion boards. Mlle. C is doing great walking around, signing, and speaking the words she's picked up. We've been having fun lately with pointing to Maman, Papa, Grammie, nose, feet, etc.

Her sleep schedule has recently gone out of whack so I'm wondering if we're going down to 1 nap a day!

Ghislaine


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## Mal85

Poor Owyn is feeling pretty crappy this week. She woke the other night with a slight fever, so I gave her some tylenol and she woke up fine yesterday. After her nap, she felt warm again and was pretty lethargic all evening. Her fever spiked to 103 just before bedtime! All she would do was lay on me and let out a whimper every now and then until she finally passed out on my lap. I gave her some ibuprofen and she did sleep well all night. But when she got up this morning, she was burning up again. I took her to the dr and her throat is looking pretty yucky but no strep.

Right now, she has some drugs in her so she's feeling pretty good, but it takes almost nothing to set her off. So, I can tell she's still not feeling well. Poor baby, I hate when she doesn't feel good. It makes me feel so helpless.

Gillian, I'm so sorry things aren't working out with your husband like you'd like to. I really hope you can make peace with it. You're such a great mama to Royce, he's a lucky boy to have you!


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: Don't feel like you are a downer. Hopefully we ladies can offer up a bit of support to help you through a tough situation! Hugs to you! Sucks to get your hopes up and then have them crushed again!!

Mal: I hope Owyn is better soon. Fevers can be scary.

M still has a lot of loose poo. I am figuring it's bc all 4 molars are coming in. The 2nd popped through last week and the 3rd popped through yesterday and the 4th is about to. Plus the 1st isn't even all through yet. She is officially UN night weaned now...with worrying about dehydration from the pooping and being inconsolable without nursing bc of the teeth...it's just not a good time for it, I suppose. Not that I didn't try the past few nights but it just wouldn't work. Tylenol is the only thing that finally got her back to sleep last night.

M has started saying Please and Thank you. Especially when she wants to nurse...how could I say no then? And also when she wants a cookie...which is now all the time...despite her hardly having them (and they are really teething biscuits).

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
I'm excited about our future doulas and midwives! So cool!

Gillian, I am so sorry about your DH. I can't imagine how you are feeling right now. I often think about you and find your strength amazing! You are such a good Mama to Royce. I know that it probably doesn't feel like it right now, but you will start to feel better and be able to pick up and make a life for you and Royce that you do love. I really believe that. Please know that we are all here for you and you can come vent any time. Really! Big







Mama!

she said exactly what I was thinking, just in a way more articulate way.

Josephine is helaing up beautifully and never even thinks about her stitches...unless she is telling people "I got stitches and I didn't cry at all!"

Tomorrow I should get to pay for the doula class so I am uber excited about that. I'm on my way!!!

DH is back home from El PAso (did I tell you all he was away? Putting solar panel on Ft.BLiss), it is so nice to have him home.

okay, msut go sew since the babe just fell off the boob in a deep deep sleep.


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## Everrgreen

Thank you for the support ladies. I do most of my relationship venting on PaP just because it's private. I just did a big vent over there. So I'm going to try and keep my posts here more Royce-focused









Royce is continuing to do so well with teething. He now has his top 4 and bottom 4 center teeth, and 4 molars. I wish I knew whether it really was the amber necklace or if it's just his personality.

I hope all of those little ones not feeling well or having a difficult time with teething are feeling better. Poor babies









Royce still nurses like crazy through the night. I don't even try to not nurse him most of the time. But I am trying to stay awake so I can unlatch asap. Sometimes I swear he only needs to nurse for 5 seconds. Someday he'll nightwean... I think.... He will, right?









Today we drove up to my moms and went for a bike ride. She lives in sort of the country (it's a teensy tiny village). It was so picture-perfect - there is an old mill, a river, cows in the field, people horse back riding, kids playing baseball, geese with babies in the river. It was wonderful to bike around with all of that going on! And Royce loved the cows and the horses (I don't think he's seen those animals irl before). Tomorrow we are going to the zoo and a splashpad! Should be fun


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## justKate

Gotta ask you all, even though I know the answer already....

I RSVP'ed to a splashpark play meet-up this evening from 6-8 here in Austin. It is really not convenient, but I want to make "mom friends" and Aubs loves the water. Now only the organizer (who is going to have her second baby any day now) and I have RSVP'ed, and I'm not sure if it's worth it to go. I've never met them before, and the other child is 24 months (so probably not a perfect playmate for Aubs).

Pros: possibly make a mom friend, check out a new splash park, start a friday evening activity, not look like a flake.

Cons: I could take Aubs to the splashpark in our neighborhood and not have to drive. Will use more time traveling there/back ~10 miles each way (we could go earlier in our neighborhood and not mess up dinner / bed time routine). I'm tired and lazy by the end of the day. Huz won't go because he's waiting on the UPS guy who doesn't come until like 7 p.m.









So would it be really rude to cancel? I don't think she's "counting on us" just trying to organize some events. I guess I should find a more convenient meet up group....


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## AKislandgirl

JustKate: Well, it does sound like it would be fun but that timing would be hard for us for dinner. (Not bedtime since my little bug is choosing to go to bed later and later!!) I think that I would try to find a better time. But, I completely understand the need for a mommy friend. Just in the past month we started a playgroup with 3 other moms and babes and I love it! The kids tend to play next to each other rather then with each other at this age. It always seems that saying goodbye is the most interaction between them... lots of hugs and high fives!

well, I'm about 2 weeks in to DH's time away with just under 2 weeks to go. I hate these trips because I only get short 2-3 sentence emails every few days. But except for the fact that our house seems to always be a total mess we are doing great. Having no daycare has been fabulous! Fiona and I have taken long walks with the dogs, gone to the beach, had play dates, gone out to lunch and just explored some new areas. The other day we went to the fair grounds which we had been to for the fair but not otherwise. I never realized how big it was. We walked around for an hour looking at horses and stomping in puddles. We were the only people there, I loved it! She was asleep before we even pulled on the the main road!

And no interest in the potty since Monday! I moved her little potty to the living room so now she sometimes sits on it with clothes on and says pssss!


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## Everrgreen

justKate - is there anyway you can send her a note that you can't make it? I would think that most moms understand that with toddlers plans change constantly! Although, some people may be planning on going but haven't officially rsvp'd, so if you do go you may end up meeting more than just 1 mom.


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## Thursday Girl

probably a good chance more moms are coming, i know a lot of times people (me) don't RSVP.

Man a whole month with the hubs away, and i thought 8 days was a PIA.

I have signed up and paid for the doula course, paid for the doula certification packet and my membership to DONA. I can not wait to get my packet and get started. I am making it happen and on my way to becoming a midwife and it's so freaking exciting I can hardly believe it.

on a feb baby note, she is super annoying. I don't know what it is, but by the evening she is all clingy and nursey and it just annoys me. (okay i know what it is i haven't had a damn break in way too long). I WILL be making an appointment to get an IUD as I really DON'T want anymore kids. DH is being a pisser and not willing to go get a vasectomy, which makes me angry b/c I had 3 damn kids and it wasn't really easy. He could do something! BUt lets not talk of angry things b/c i am not terribly angry right now, hot and slightly annoyed yes. Must cheer up and put myself in a good mood.


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## mamamillet

I haven't posted in a while but I do read....
Oh my you guys are my sanity check. Many of my irl mom friends have babes sleeping throu already, some younger than Willa. I rremember this with my DS but for some reason it is bugging me more this time around!! I have one frind that is so excited her dd weaned herself







at 13 months so she wouldn't have such a time with it later on. Pet peeve...the babe did not wean herslef if you started offering cows milk all day long!
Willa has been driving me a bit crazy this week. She is into everything. EVERYTHING!! It is so hard to get anything done when I am stopping every 30 seconds to redirect her. And, she does stuff that ds never did! Just this morning we had a run in with one of the dogs. I had a 120 lb shep mix when ds was little and never never worried. But willa is so rough with the dogs. Grabbing tails and whatever she can grab onto. She is never left unsupervised with them but today ds let one of the dogs back in the house without a heads up to me and before I knew it I heard a dog yelp and then a baby scream. Willa was bitten though it did not break the skin. ughh! And then there are the eating habits. She will try everything but has a bad habit of throwing stuff on the floor...even if it is something she likes.It doesn't mean she is done always either. Again ds never did that. I knoew I was spoiled with him!!
OK I will stop comparing. Willa does have lots and lots of positives too! I just needed a vent...


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## AKislandgirl

So do you give your little ones milk? I was talking today with the lactation consultant/pediatric dietician about a couple of things. One, Fiona's wheat allergy (we are pretty sure that we have finally narrowed it down to that) and two, breastfeeding while taking clomid. She seemed surprised that I don't give Fiona milk (cow or soy were her suggestions) and that she'll need a "drinkable replacement for breastmilk, high in fat and protien" if/when clomid and or pregnancy dries up/changes my milk production. i guess I understand that if I take clomid to get pregnant and it dries up my milk that she should have something else... most people probably do cows milk. BUT, if we hold off for a while on the clomid does she really need to be drinking milk now since she breastfeeds on demand still? She only ever drinks water and breastmilk now. She also eats a wide variety of solids. Curious what you guys are doing about this.


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## Vegan Princess

DD drinks organic whole cow milk at meals. She loves it! We ran out tonight before dinner and she kept asking for it. I'd say she probably drinks around 8 ounces per day. She also gets water through out the day...maybe drinks a few ounces of that each day. And she nurses often...but I have low supply so she doesn't get a ton from me....maybe 8-10 ounces/day now that I'm off my meds to increase milk supply. I was really on the fence about giving cows milk since I was vegan until pregnancy. But I don't feel comfortable that she would be getting all she needs from soy or other non dairy milks. Goats milk is another option...more expensive, I think. I'm not sure how long it is so important for them to drink milk? I think I heard until age 2. I would figure that as long as she is getting a lot of breast milk she doesn't need any other kind of milk. But I do agree, can't hurt to get her used to something if you think your supply might drop sometime soon.

Ugh molars. Poor baby keeps pointing to her mouth and saying "mouth booboo". She has been sooo unhappy.

Happy father's day to all your partners! Not sure what we will be doing. Probably going out to breakfast then up to the little farm here to see the animals. I got DH some new running clothes and a subscription to runner's world. He's training for his 1st marathon!

Cindy


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## Mal85

I started giving Owyn cow's milk during the day when she was refusing to nurse. Only with her meals and she gets water in between. I fought it for a long time because I really wanted to keep nursing, but she had completely lost interest in it. She really did wean herself. But if nursing is going well and your supply is keeping up, I wouldn't worry that much about it, personally. She will adjust to it if/when your supply changes with clomid or pregnancy. It took Owyn a couple of weeks to start actually drinking it. I just stayed consistent with it and gave her a small cup of it during mealtime. I didn't push it on her, just made it available and she eventually took to it and now loves it.

DH is spending Father's Day brewing a batch of beer, that's what he asked for. The ingredients to make it and the morning of Father's Day to brew it.

So, that meant I took Owyn to church by myself. Church is soooo not going well anymore. I'm torn about what to do. She is so loud and wants to run up and down the aisle. We have a playroom downstairs that I can take her to. But I really don't like the idea of taking her to the toys when she is misbehaving. I want her to learn how to behave during church. So, right now, I take her out when she starts a tantrum, but we only stay down there until the tantrum is over then we go back. DH will stay down there with her the whole time, but I don't want her to think if she throws enough of a fit she can just go play with the toys all through church. I know I can't expect a 1 year old to sit still and listen during church, but it is something I feel like we should begin to teach her so that we're not having this fight when she's 5.

And I so feel you on the molars. Owyn's top ones came in a couple weeks ago, but her bottom ones have been pushing their way up for over a month. One of her bottom ones finally came through yesterday/last night and the other one is sooooo close. I feel like I haven't actually seen my sweet girl for over a month with all this teething. I can't wait for it to be over.


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## starling&diesel

Ah, church. We stopped going about four months ago for the same reasons. We go to a Unitarian Church that is pretty kid-friendly, but the expectation is that once your child is old enough she will leave with the other children and go to the RE classes/playroom/nursery after the first part of the service.
We don't leave Esmé with anyone but family. So, no nursery for us. Which, now that she won't sit still and play quietly, means we don't go to church.








When she's more verbal and is able to tell me about her time in the playroom/RE classes and how she's being treated there, then she can go.
It's sad though, because I'd like her to be a part of the service. Don't know what to do about that.


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## AKislandgirl

I stopped taking Fiona to church too. All I do is chase her around the back. I'm not exactly getting anything from the service. There is no playroom/cryroom or even a nursery. Someday we'll go back but for now its too hard. DH doesn't go anyway so I'd rather spend the day as a family day. I'm sure God understands!


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## Everrgreen

I haven't offered milk at all. Royce still breastfeeds pretty often. He gets water as well. And I often drink watered down OJ so sometimes he has that as well.

We aren't church goers here. Although one time I attempted to take him to a UU service and it didn't go well. We left about 20 minutes into it because he got restless.

Royce has been quite clingy lately. I can barely leave the room without him having a meltdown







I think it started when I was assisting at my friends birth. I had to leave him with my dad the whole time. I did go over to nurse him a few times and to get some sleep, but I think the experience was a little much for him.


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## Nillarilla

Not much time here but just wanted to add that Delia nurses all day long but only for a couple minutes and then she's too busy. She was getting dehydrated and will not drink water. So I give her almond milk. I am against soy for many reasons and she has a dairy intolerance so she can't have cow's milk.
Cindy if she has a wheat intolerance a dairy intolerance often goes hand in hand. Sometimes yogurt and cheese are ok but milk is a total no go. Coconut milk, almond milk or hemp milk are what I would choose from as nutritious dairy alternatives.


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## AKislandgirl

Nillarilla: it was actually me that was asking about the milk thing.







But I'm thinking that almond milk sounds good. Can you tell me more about your aversions to soy? I don't know a lot about it.

I posted in allergies about this but I'm feeling way overwhelmed by allergies/intolerances. What I do know is that by taking wheat/gluten out of her diet her rash has improved dramatically. Its not 100% gone so I'm going to make sure that I am also 100% gluten free as well because I wasn't being as careful with myself. If in 2 weeks we still have some symptoms I think I'll try nixing dairy on top of this. We went dairy free for several weeks before but didn't see much change. She used to get constipated with dairy but now does fine with some cheese and yogurt or kefir. Still haven't given her straight milk though. I do wonder if this gluten things is something she'll outgrow or if its celiacs and something she'll have for life. I'll have to ask about if/when testing is appropriate. Her low weight is always something I think about. Ok, thanks for letting me get some of that out...


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## Vegan Princess

As of today, I am officially cutting down the nursing! It's been pretty out of hand. For instance: asking and nursing 4 times at an hour long la leche meeting. We managed to restart night weaning last night (thanks to DH!). And today I'm putting her on a schedule. She can nurse at waking (or 5 am until we get out of bed - however long that is), mid morning, before nap, after nap, once in the afternoon and before bed. That is still plenty. I just really need to reduce the constant asking for my sanity and bc I am starting to get embarassed by having a toddler who meltsdown in public if she can't nurse. And my cycle is still totally off. Not yet ovulating - and I doubt I will start until she nurses less. Wish us well mommas!

Cindy


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## justKate

AK, how about goat products instead of cow? I switched Aubs to goat milk for day times when I stopped pumping at 12 months. I think kellymom has a comparison of the relative nutritional values of the different milks, but for us, goat was a good first step. Here's what I'm thinking. She's been drinking cow milk during the day for about a month now. We make an effort to buy raw/organic if possible, but it doesn't always work out that way.









Cindy, I'm with you. I love nursing but sometimes I think our (Aubrey's and mine) relationship would be better if we weaned. Right now she asks to nurse all the time (well sign-asks) and I try to limit it to bed time, twice during the night, and wake up time. But that's hard for her to understand, so I'd almost rather it just be bed time. It's sad. I've also got fertility in mind--I started regular BCP and got a period, but then it didn't stop for 4 weeks so I quit the BCP, and now I'm back to no period.







I don't know what I was thinking. I don't know that it's a good time to be TTC--Huz wouldn't be on board yet, with Aub's issues--but it would be good to know things are back to normal.

Nilla, water is not popular here, either. I try to get her to drink it out of my glass, or put a little juice in her cup to make it more interesting on really hot days. And of course she does drink the bath water. uke

mamamillet, okay to vent! That's what we do. I know my brother is my exact opposite, and people had trouble believing we were related much less siblings growing up. Good thing Willa and Aubs don't get together IRL--sounds like they would terrorize the neighborhood!

Thursday, yay for your doula cert packet! Very exciting. I agree its sucky of your Huz not to agree to the V. Maybe he just needs more time to think about it. At some point, it just makes so much sense.... I'm fully expecting Huz to put up a fight when we get to that point. Men. Maybe a vague suggestion about an exacto knife while he's sleeping would motivate him? Just kidding....









K, that's enough for now. Back to work.


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## Nillarilla

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Nillarilla: it was actually me that was asking about the milk thing.







But I'm thinking that almond milk sounds good. Can you tell me more about your aversions to soy? I don't know a lot about it.

I posted in allergies about this but I'm feeling way overwhelmed by allergies/intolerances. What I do know is that by taking wheat/gluten out of her diet her rash has improved dramatically. Its not 100% gone so I'm going to make sure that I am also 100% gluten free as well because I wasn't being as careful with myself. If in 2 weeks we still have some symptoms I think I'll try nixing dairy on top of this. We went dairy free for several weeks before but didn't see much change. She used to get constipated with dairy but now does fine with some cheese and yogurt or kefir. Still haven't given her straight milk though. I do wonder if this gluten things is something she'll outgrow or if its celiacs and something she'll have for life. I'll have to ask about if/when testing is appropriate. Her low weight is always something I think about. Ok, thanks for letting me get some of that out...

oops sorry Sue







I'm sure I've done that once before in this thread







. Well my aversions to soy started with my son's allergy to it. But through that I learned that almost all of the world's soybeans are genetically modified and basically made indigestible. It's the same reason a lot of people suspect wheat intolerance is on the rise. However soy and what it does to the body's hormones is not good for little growing bodies IMO. There are more nutritious alternatives. I did not choose goat's milk because my dd reacted to goat's cheese and I learned that the large protiens in goats milk can be hard to digest if you have a dairy intolerance. You can PM me if you like I'm happy to share my learning from this last year of allergy issues with both my kids. I have a lot of sites with great recipes. Are her symptoms with the gluten GI related? Or is it just a really bad rash? As for testing all the testing is not reliable under 2 and you can't be gluten free to get it done. You must have ingested gluten or it will come back with a false negative. It takes a long time to heal the gut after the damage done by gluten when one is sensitive so it may be that she just needs more time gluten free. Also increasing her omega 3 intake will probably improve the rash further.

On another note we have 2 canine teeth through and 2 more to go. I can see the light at the end of the teething tunnel.

Thursday congrats on your doula package.

I want to wean too







. It's not a fertility thing for me. It's just that I'm done. It's uncomfortable with all her teeth and she is constantly twiddling or flipping around and she wants to pop on and off repeatedly. I would be ok if it was relaxing and was a couple times a day but it's not like that. She hisses and spits and smacks if I say no. If I say yes she's on for like 2 seconds and off again







. I have however made the commitment to make it to 18 months so I will stick it out. I know she may need it to get through these last few teeth and the developmental milestone of walking. Someone please send me some patience.


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## starling&diesel

We've night weaned over the last couple of weeks, which is wonderful. The quality of my sleep has greatly improved, even if she wakes a couple of times and needs a cuddle back down. How did I do it?

I put on a shirt! Jeez, if someone had told me before that that would be all it would take, I would've donned a T ages ago!









I think it helps that Esmé loves her sleep. She usually sleeps from 10pm through to 9am, so I think she didn't want to lose any of it to extra fussing.

The DOWNSIDE is that she is CONSTANTLY NURSING DURING THE DAY AND SHOVING HER HAND DOWN AND UP MY SHIRT AND TWIDDLING MY BOOBS AND DEMANDING NUM-NUMS at the top of her lungs at every opportunity. I am getting pretty frustrated with it. I don't want to wean her, but I would like some etiquette.









Good luck with all the sleeping/weaning/ttc projects everyone! Not much time to say hello to everyone individually, but am thinking of you all.


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## starling&diesel

Oh, and please note ... I'm sure the nightweaning will go directly out the window when she starts teething in earnest. She still has only TWO chompers, the front ones on the top.


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## bedheadmaestro

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thursday Girl* 

I have signed up and paid for the doula course, paid for the doula certification packet and my membership to DONA. I can not wait to get my packet and get started. I am making it happen and on my way to becoming a midwife and it's so freaking exciting I can hardly believe it.


Just popping in from lurking status- Thursday, I decided to become a DONA birth doula only 3 months ago and I'm already attending births! My first mom is due tomorrow, and I have two more due this month! I've been having to turn people down due to overbooking (I'm working for cheap). It's been amazing and it was the birth of my DD last February that started me on this path. I can't decide what kind of midwife I want to be, since all but CNM is illegal in MD, so I haven't considered midwifery school yet. I kick myself for not thinking of this sooner!


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## AKislandgirl

Nilla: Thanks for that response. I'm going to PM you with more ?'s when I have time to pull my thoughts together... nap time hopefully!

Starling: Way to go on the night weaning. Esmé is such a mellow girl. I don't think Fiona will give up the night boob with such grace and ease. I haven't tried yet... I'm afraid to actually be awake in the night rather then slip her a boob. She used to nurse for long stretches in the night and now its less then a few minutes and she rolls over so I think that is great progress.

Fiona is on a similar 10-8:30 or 9 schedule. Now that I don't have to wake up for kids I'm loving the sleeping in. It's like the summers of my youth!

I've been giving a lot of thought as to when to start clomid. I'm really not ready to change or stop my nursing relationship with Fiona and think that we are going to wait for a while before trying again. We originally thought that this Fall we would start the clomid/IUI process again but now I'm not sure. Ugh, can I say out loud how much I hate infertility!! Why can't we just get pregnant the old fashioned way? I thought that after having Fiona that dealing with infertility wouldn't sting so much but it truly is heart breaking and frustrating and I hate it.







There, got that out. We don't use birth control because it seems rather pointless so maybe a miracle can still occur.


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: I'll be hoping for a miracle for you.  BTW, I am on the nursing mamas trying to conceive thread and a number of moms on there are nursing and take clomid...so perhaps you should ask them for their experience?

Starling: Yay - I'm so glad night weaning went so smoothly for you guy! And yay for good sleep!

Re-night weaning has been tough around here the past 2 nights. But I am glad we are doing it and hoping it won't take as many nights as the first time for her to start sleeping well again. On a positive note, the scheduled nursing has been going well so far! No big meltdowns...much to my surprise!

I recently got some new photos printed and finally put pictures of my family into a baby photo album for Makenna. Mostly they are of my mom. She has been taking it to bed with her and going to sleep with it under her arm! She loves loves loves my mom so much! So last night a miracle occured - she woke up crying and I went in and gave her my mom's picture and told her to lay back down and she did, with it under her arm. And she went to sleep. No fuss. Nothing like that has EVER occured in this house! LOL!

Cindy


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## Mal85

This is actually shaping up to be a pretty good week. Owyn is still dripping from the nose quite a bit and coughing, but she is HAPPY! She hasn't been whining or throwing any tantrums in the last couple of days. I was seriously starting to lose my mind thinking What in the world happened to my sweet little girl?! All of her molars are finally in, so I attribute the attitude change to that.

Either that or the Sinupret my sister recommended for her clogged up sinuses. I have been giving her just a tiny bit of it yesterday and today. It seems to be making a huge difference. Her stuffiness went from totally clogged up to dripping like crazy and her coughing is actually accomplishing something, breaking it all up in her chest. Huge improvement!

I will say we're really lucky, even when she is sick and feeling crappy. She did wake up most nights in the last week, but just long enough to get some snuggles and went right back down.

I was just house hunting online. Something I'm still nudging DH towards. I found the perfect house for us in town and in our price range! It has DH's detached garage he could do woodworking in and TWO seperate decks, one covered (I'd want to screen that in personally) and one uncovered. And a huge backyard to boot! It has a big finished, walk out basement I could make into a playroom. It's just perfect. I'm going to show it to DH when he gets home. Not that it'll make a difference, but I keep on trying!


----------



## justKate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starling&diesel* 
I put on a shirt! Jeez, if someone had told me before that that would be all it would take, I would've donned a T ages ago!










Maybe I'll start there. Or maybe a turtle neck, even though its 95 degrees every day here. I know it's not the _popular_ way of thinking, but I can see being done nursing at 18 months. Nilla, i've got the same issues with the movement, pinching--sometimes I don't want to get in bed at night because I know it's going to begin. And I don't want to feel that way. And it will be nice to be able to snuggle without being manhandled. I dunno, I'm torn. 18 months sounds like a good goal right now.

ETA: forgot the most important thing! Aubs pooped in the potty last night. I'm not sure it was intentional, but hey, I'll take it. She "concentrated," I plopped her on the potty, and viola, POOP. OMG it was chaos, trying to keep her from grabbing the poop, trying to be positive (but not overreact), Huz running for some TP, me debating trying to get the camera, trying to keep her hands and shirt off her bum. Wow.


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## Everrgreen

Nightweaning definitely won't be as easy as putting on a shirt here. I already wear a shirt all night, and put my boob away after he's done, and he still wakes. Although, I'm not trying to do anything else to get him back to sleep. When he stirs, I pull out a boob, it's easiest. I will probably start putting some effort into the process soon.

Sometimes I think about the 'pros' of weaning completely, but I think the cons still outweight the pros at this point. I do sometimes say no though, or try and distract him from wanting to nurse. Most of his nursing is to go to sleep (nap/bedtime) and through the night.

Mal - I hope you were able to convince your dh about the house, sounds exciting! And I can't believe Owyn has ALL of her molars!

and Starling - I can't believe Esme only has TWO teeth! Hopefully her nightweanedness (I doubt that's a word) will keep up during her teething









Cindy - I love the photo book idea! I should do something like that for Royce, I think he would love it!

Here's some baby dust for all you ttc-ers!


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## AKislandgirl

Yeah Aubrey for pooping on the toilet! I'm laughing thinking about that chaotic/exciting scene JustKate!









Mal: Glad that Owyn is feeling better. And cool about the house! Good luck!

Teething, well we may be working on the last set of molars here. Yes, the two year molars! WTH? Fiona has 16 teeth already but has been acting a bit teethy (is that a word?!) lately and chewing on her fingers a lot. Maybe its just my imagination and I'm feeling burnt out since DH has been gone so long but she got all of her other teeth early so I think its possible. The good thing is at least they would all be in and we could move on to other challenges! Sometimes shes teething for a long time before any tooth actually comes through though. We'll see!

I met up with a couple of moms that I met online through diaper swappers this morning. It was alright but I didn't really feel like I particularly clicked with them. Why can't you guys all live here instead?!


----------



## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 

Mal - I hope you were able to convince your dh about the house, sounds exciting! And I can't believe Owyn has ALL of her molars!


Well, just her one year molars, so 4 of them. Now we're just waiting on her canines to come in and we'll be done with teething until she gets her 2 year molars in. Teething sucks.









And, Owyn is feeling better but my daycare girl caught her bug. She was gone Monday and has been back ever since. No fever, but she obviously still doesn't feel good. Poor girl. And her mom is away on business this week and her dad can't take anymore time off, so I'm doing my best to make her comfortable here until she's feeling better.









I did talk to DH about the house. He's still not sold on buying one, but he is willing to compromise. He would like to take a look at empty lots around town and build a slab home, putting the dome house on hold a little longer. I can totally go with something like this. We sat down together and came up with a plan for the type of house we would need and actually agreed on almost everything! If we set it up right, we could keep the house after we build our dome and I could use it strictly for daycare. So, progress has been made! We took a drive around town tonight looking at empty lots and he's actually pretty excited about it!


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## Thursday Girl

mal, that is exciting that a plan is in place!

sue- i'm hoping for a miracle as well.

gillian- i am thinking i want to wean around 18 months, and i will if she is accepting of it.

kate- that's super exiting, i totally took pics of my first 2 daughters first poops.

bedheadmaestro- that is awesome. i so need to be out there attending births. i had thought of it earlier but i wasn"t quite ready yet.

starling- good luck w/ the etiqutte lessons. it can totally be done but it takes CONSISTANCY, one absentminded slip up and you just took two steps backwords.


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## alaskaberry

re twiddling: annoying, isn't it? I gave ds1 a teddy bear when I got sick of it. He stopped trying to twiddle, he just made the bear nurse. I know they do it to stimulate let-down, but omg it's annoying! Little T has been trying to do it too and I just push his hand away and say No.

We're visiting my folks in VT right now and Tuck wants to do *everything* his big brother does and then some. Ds1 told me I had to get a mini-potty for Tucker so he wouldn't have to use his diaper anymore, lol. And he's talking more! He says Baa-Baa for "bye" and he just really understands everything I say.







He's even eating with a spoon and a fork, which constantly amazes me since ds1 still hasn't quite mastered the trick of the spoon. He refuses to use a sippy cup, or sit in a high chair (wants the 'big boy'/grown-up chair), climbs all over everything, tries to stand up constantly in the stroller, and says "allo, allo" into the phone (he steals my cell constantly). Plus we went to the rec the other day (it's a pond with a "beach") and he just took to the water like a duck, it was great!

Hope you are all having a fantastic week, personals later!


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## starling&diesel

Esmé is starting to link words together! I love it!








She's been doing it for a while now, but her repertoire is increasing fast these days.

Sample conversation (on the subject of nightweaning, actually):
ME: Okay, sparkle, num-nums are going night-night. Want to say goodnight?
HER: (Pats one) Night-night num-num. (Pats the other) Night-night ovver one.
ME: Goodnight, Esmé. Goodnight, Bear.
HER: Night-night, mama. Night-night, Bear. Night-night num-nums. (Pulls her pajama top and looks down) Mé-mé num-nums? Nope. Mama num-nums night-night. No Mé-mé num-nums. No Baba num-nums. All gone. Okay? Bye-bye, num-nums.

As you can see, very attached to her blessed num-nums. But how cool to have a conversation!


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks for the support ladies!

Starling: I love it! Such a little talker! Girl loves her num nums!

We get some sentences here too but not so much the conversation like you had! Lots of more peas mama, up peas mama, papa bye bye boat. She also loves to yell stuck. Like if she can't reach something, really is stuck from some place she climbed, or like today when she wanted down while I was holding her. We were picking up tacos at a roadside taco stand. Lots of cars around, etc so I wouldn't let her down like she wanted. She kept yelling Stuck Mama down! Stuck Mama!

Tomorrow is our 5 year wedding anniversary! DH is still gone but we'll do something to celebrate when he gets home. Not sure what though since we still don't leave Fiona with a sitter (am I alone in this?!). If we had family here I would leave her with them but we don't... anyway I wish we could spend the day together but we'll pick out something fun to do when he returns. maybe a family picnic!

Fiona has these two weird bump/pox like things on her back. Is it possible to get only two chicken pox? And no fever? She is a bit cranky today... but it may be some kind of bug bite too. They are raised, formed an almost watery pimple like thing then crusted over a bit. Hmm....


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## Mal85

Sue, today is our 5 year anniversary too, how funny! We're not doing much to celebrate either. We're waiting until next weekend when we go camping just outside of town. DH's parents are going to keep owyn overnight. That we'll be the first time she has an overnight away from us. I'm glad we'll be close by so if she needs us we can be there in no time.

If we didn't have family close by we wouldn't be leaving owyn with a baby sitter either. My 12 year old niece keeps asking to watch her. She is great with her, but 12 seems so young to me even though I know I was baby sitting at that age.


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## Vegan Princess

Love the conversations! Makenna says a ton and repeats everything but not a whole lot of sentences yet. Just the occasional two-three word phrase.

Happy 5th anniversary Mal and Sue!

OMG - I think I may have thrush on one side!! It hurts!! I'm sort of freaking out. Makenna took antibiotics a few weeks ago so I'm guessing that was the cause? Anyone have any experience with this?

We're heading down to San Diego to visit my family today. Makenna has a doozy of a cold/cough. I hope she's ok on the flight. Thankfully it's only an hour. And I hope she's not a cranky pants the entire time. Poor little one. She's had a string of illnesses lately!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

I had a tea leaf reading done today (for the first time) and thought it was pretty cool so I thought I'd share here. She said that there was a lot of stress with my partner (that's an understatement) and that there was a lot of lying and excuses being told. She told me that I would probably be doing 2 different jobs in the near future, probably from home (which is really cool, because a couple days ago I had talked to my friend about 2 ideas I had that I could do from home and do both of them together). She said that I would be pregnant in the next year (yikes! I sort of hope not) and that I would have a new relationship (well, obviously, otherwise it would be an immaculate conception







). She said I was likely to only have baby boys, which is okay with me (well, I would enjoy having a daughter some day). And she said my life would be settled by next April. I sure hope so!

I have never had a psychic reading before and it was pretty cool. I want to go and get another one and see if it's the same!


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## justKate

Gillian, that is neat about the psychic. I've never done it because it scares me, but I guess it would be okay if they promised only to tell me good things.

AK & Mal, 5 years must be the magic number. Our 5 year anniversary is in a couple of months....

AK, weird thing is, we might NOT click in person, you never know. Because I am definitely uncool. Undeniably uncool, dangerous-fun-ruining mama! And I love it that way.









Time to leave work! Hooray for the weekend!

kate


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
I had a tea leaf reading done today (for the first time) and thought it was pretty cool so I thought I'd share here. She said that there was a lot of stress with my partner (that's an understatement) and that there was a lot of lying and excuses being told. She told me that I would probably be doing 2 different jobs in the near future, probably from home (which is really cool, because a couple days ago I had talked to my friend about 2 ideas I had that I could do from home and do both of them together). She said that I would be pregnant in the next year (yikes! I sort of hope not) and that I would have a new relationship (well, obviously, otherwise it would be an immaculate conception







). She said I was likely to only have baby boys, which is okay with me (well, I would enjoy having a daughter some day). And she said my life would be settled by next April. I sure hope so!

I have never had a psychic reading before and it was pretty cool. I want to go and get another one and see if it's the same!

That's so neat Gillian! I've always wanted to do something like that. My sister went to a reading one time and she told her she would meet a doctor at her job (my sister used to be a nurse) and they would likely marry and have children. About a year later, she met her now-husband at work. He was a milk truck driver, but had a blue uniform much like a doctor's! She was also told that she had lost a baby boy (quite possible, my sister lost a twin when she was pregnant with my nephew) and that the surviving twin would have the intelligence of both boys. And he is a pretty darn smart little boy!


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## AKislandgirl

Gillian that is cool. I think it would be fun to have a tea leaf reading done!

JustKate: I'm sure that I'd like your uncoolness just fine! I'm pretty uncool myself!







In this case I do feel like I already "know" you mamas and have already made a connection with you all. I never even chatted with the other moms from DS before. They just posted on the Alaska section and asked if anyone was in Kodiak. A couple of us responded and set up a play date at the park. I think part of it is that I'm a bit shy until I know someone well.


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## Nillarilla

It's our 5 year anniversary in July!
Gillian I had a crystal reading when I was in grade 12 and I was told I would meet a dark and handsome man that I would later marry. I met my hubby 6 months later.


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## alaskaberry

Akisland--5 years, congrats! We are at 5 years too, although sometimes it feels like longer!
Re the zits: maybe an allergic reaction to something.

Cindy--Thrush is a yeast thing, right? So could you try cutting out sugar completely for a few weeks until it clears up? I've never had thrush before, though.

Gillian--that sounds like *so* much fun! I read tarot & am in the process of developing my psychic antenna, so to speak, but I have never gotten my tea leaves read. Now I want to!









bedhead--congrats, I would love to be a doula. I hope you get to attend lots of wonderful births!

re church: we don't go to church, as I am Wiccan. DP is a lapsed Catholic, but he wants me to bring the kids to church. I don't know why he doesn't do it himself if it's so darn important to him, kwim? My best friend is a non-theist Quaker and has invited me to meetinghouse so we will probably go to that if we can ever get up early enough







I want my kids to choose for themselves when the time is right for them, but how can they choose if they've never been exposed to anything different? Anyway, I can just nurse Tucker during meeting, I think, while I meditate.










re nightweaning: Haven't gotten there yet, as our schedules seem to jive together pretty well. I'll likely do it at 2.

re discipline: I find it's easier just to remove temptation and try not to draw his attention to it! Plus I let him get away with a lot more than I let ds1, just lazier the 2nd time around I guess!









Well, we are in PA currently with my Ils (DP's mom & sisters). We're going to some little kid theme park called Magical Land or somesuch. Should be interesting! I got my nose pierced last week and now the stud keeps falling back into my nose... Is anyone else here pierced? I am kind of freaking out. It's really bugging me! I guess I should probably go into the shop where I got it done when I get back to VT and make them fix it. Then in 2 weeks we are flying back to Fairbanks, and I can't say I'm too sad--I still have lots of friends I kept in touch with in VT, but Alaska is my home now.









Phoebe


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## mckittre

Just got back from another backpacking trip (5 days this time), so I haven't had a chance to catch up on everything. This time my mom (who's visiting for a good chunk of the summer) came along, so we had 3 generations. Went great again, though we did have a bit too much hot weather (seems funny in Alaska). Katmai greatly enjoyed all the sticks and rocks and flowers.

He's not quite to conversations yet, but is definitely getting more and more into the two word phrases: "big stick!" "big rock!" "more bread!" "more ducks!" "bye-bye dada" "goodnight dog"

Is anyone else's kid in the "more" phase? He's constantly asking for more of absolutely everything, from food to games to airplanes to features of the surrounding landscape. When he gets excited it sounds like "moee!" almost like a guinea pig squeak. Super cute.

Nightweaning: I'm sort of dreading starting this, but feel I need to do it sometime before the new one comes along this winter. I don't mind nursing him at night so much (usually only nurses once or twice for a few min each), but I hate the nursing to sleep. When he fights it, it takes forever and he's super violent about it. I need a different way to put him to bed! Can I start that without going all the way to night weaning, or would night weaning first be easier?


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## AKislandgirl

yeah to the 5 year anniversaries! We have been together for 10 years actually... didn't exactly rush into marriage! It is kind of neat to see so many of us celebrating 5 years though!

mckittre: Glad you had a great trip! Katmai is a lucky boy to have so many adventures under his belt already!

I'm wondering about the getting to bed thing too. Fiona fights it big time! I didn't get her down till 10:30 last night which is becoming more and more the norm. She can't skip a nap though because she just falls apart. Sometimes she nurses peacefully to sleep when she is finally ready and other times I have to hold her and bounce on the darn yoga ball because nursing is anything but peaceful. I feel like I'll be bouncing her on that thing till she's 5! Something has to change! I've tried doing a nice routine and really haven't succeeded yet. I would love to have her in bed between 9 and 9:30. If you have any luck with Katmai let me know!


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## Nillarilla

AK we've been together 10yrs as well just married for 5.

Dd is walking!! It's only like 4-5 steps at a time but that counts right? She's walking along holding a finger happily and not sitting down and asking to be picked up. I think it's actually happening







.


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## AKislandgirl

Woo Hoo! Great job Delia!


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## mamamillet

So last week we took a trip to DC, which is dp's hometown. All in all it was a great trip. But, it was sweltering hot and Willa hated the Metro. I love being able to walk and take public transportation but not sure I would love the city life...I am dreaming (again) of building on my parents property. The have 30 acres of land about 20 minutes outside of Knoxville.

I would love Willa to nightwean, but am not quite ready to force the issue. I do not want her to completely wean until after 2. I want to get through another winter where she still gets my milk! When she has been sick (only a few times







) it is all she wants. DS nursed until he wasa little over 3 but I am not sure we will make it that far. I am starting to think about # 3 but we are so NOT in a position for that yet. And...dp is not convinced he wants another







.


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## mckittre

We had our 7th wedding anniversary on this last hike. It's summer solstice, and we nearly are always hiking during the anniversary, so all we usually do for it is share a chocolate bar!

I'm going to start instituting a new bedtime routine tonight (still with nursing to sleep), and hope to move the nursing earlier and earlier in the process until he gets to sleep another way. Wish me luck!
I'd be fine with nursing him even with the next one here, but not at night.


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## Nillarilla

good luck McKittre!
My kids are at the sitter this morning because I have a meeting to try and figure out what to do about chemical exposure at work that we are not adequately protected from and may have long term health effects. I'm also making bagels and chicken broth and trying to tidy the house and wash diapers. I'm taking a moment to regroup and drink my coffee. If the professor I am meeting with says there's no hope to make a change from the inside I might be making a drastic career change.

Does anyone else feel like our toddlers are doing 10 new things everyday? Dd is starting to walk, learning a new word at least every 4 hrs, learning how to open things that are meant to stay shut, learning a couple new signs per day. Wow!


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## Thursday Girl

there are a couple things you can do for thrush, I like gentian violet. I got my bottle at k-mart in the section with the spanish medicine. You just put some on your nipple and some in the baby's mouth. it WILL dye you both VERY purple.

Happy Anniversary to you all!! ( we are celebrating 8 years but not until october).

Yeah for Delia walking, that is exciting! I am going to have to tell my friend about that, she's been worried b/c her new foster sonisn't walking yet.

Gillian that tea leaf reading is so neat. I so wish I could do somethign liek that. someday i will.

I found once you start a routine they accept it easily within a few days...for the most part. lol.

Junie walked to the potty and sat on it. Her poop fell out of her butt about halfway to the potty. (she had had one in her diaper right before that so we took the diaper off, and then after that we went outside and she walked around the rocking chair i was sitting in andpooped in a circle. LOL)


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## Mal85

Owyn learned the danger of electrical outlets yesterday. We have family friends who have a private pool. They just had a bunch of construction done on their house so they just now got the pool opened. They still hadn't gotten the outlets put back in the way they are supposed to be, so we were trying to be extra careful around them. But, somehow she still managed to touch it, with a dripping wet body. I'm sure she felt that all the way down to her toes and did not like it at all! I'm just glad she was okay, it really scared all of us! Lesson learned, I bet she doesn't do it again!

I'm pretty sure I have pink eye now. Anyone have any natural remedies for it? Owyn got it last summer and I sprayed breastmilk in her eye, it worked like a charm! But I'm all dried up now, so that's not an option for me. (I actually tried last night to see if I could get some milk out, but there's none there. Makes me wonder if I was running low for a while without realizing it. Could be why she weaned so early...)


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Glad Owyn is ok! How scary!!!

Hmm. Thrush still going. I did find a prescription for diflucan that my midwife had prescribed along with an antibiotic a yr ago when I had mastitis...she thought the antibiotics might give me thrush. Never took the antibiotics but saved the diflucan. Anyway, don't think it really helped? I did read you need 3-4 days of it, not just 1 like she prescribed. My midwife told me some homeopathic things to try and to avoid sugar but I was out of town visiting my family and ate TONS of sugar and crapand didn't do the remedies very often. Will be diligent about it all now that I am home.

Cindy


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## bluebirdiemama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 
He still won't take more than a step or two, but will stand all day. He has always refused to walk with a hand held - it's by himself or nothing.

Hi everyone! I have never posted with this group before, but I have a little girl born in feb of 2009. Her name is Soleil Balia. She's my little sweetheart







and I can't believe she is a toddler already! It is making my life a little more difficult, as she is a very determined child. mckittre, my dd is the same way. Makes it really hard to take her anywhere, unless I have a wrap with me, or can put her in a shopping cart. Even then though, if we stop moving she makes an attempt at escape! Don't know quite how we will manage that.... although I did get the idea from a friend of mine to put her in overalls and then loop the overall straps over the back of the shopping cart. So she is literally straped to the cart..... lol!

I look forward to coming back here, and catching up on past posts when I have some time


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## bluebirdiemama

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
Owyn learned the danger of electrical outlets yesterday. We have family friends who have a private pool. They just had a bunch of construction done on their house so they just now got the pool opened. They still hadn't gotten the outlets put back in the way they are supposed to be, so we were trying to be extra careful around them. But, somehow she still managed to touch it, with a dripping wet body. I'm sure she felt that all the way down to her toes and did not like it at all! I'm just glad she was okay, it really scared all of us! Lesson learned, I bet she doesn't do it again!

I'm pretty sure I have pink eye now. Anyone have any natural remedies for it? Owyn got it last summer and I sprayed breastmilk in her eye, it worked like a charm! But I'm all dried up now, so that's not an option for me. (I actually tried last night to see if I could get some milk out, but there's none there. Makes me wonder if I was running low for a while without realizing it. Could be why she weaned so early...)


Do you know anyone who makes colloidal silver? It will work for pink eye, but if you have to buy it it's very expensive. Like, $25 for 4 oz.


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## justKate

Cindy, do you use vinegar? I do a boob-dip in vinegar for thrush. Two bowls with vinegar in them; dip, let yourself air dry. When DD nursed a lot I would do it after every nurse--now I'd probably do it after every nurse or every 3-4 hours, whichever is more often. And GV on top of that if you have a fever, but I'd only do it once to start, plus the vinegar, to see if that helps. I also put vinegar in the downy ball in the wash now and haven't had thrush since. Got that right here on MDC.









*bluebirdiemama*,









Mal, that's so scary. Glad Owyn's okay.

Thursday, hooray for poop in (and near!) the potty!

mckittre, >< more >< MORE! Aubs is trying to talk, but not having a lot of success. I'm anxious to see what the ENT says. Right now she signs more everything, though. We went to the San Antonio Zoo yesterday, and it was more everything. More fish, more leopards, more birds, more okapis, more! They have a goat petting area and she was just running around signing "more" and yelling "beee! BEEE!" whatever that means.









One more hearing and then I'm done for the day...

ETA: the little >< is my lame interpretation of a "more" sign.


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
I am meeting with says there's no hope to make a change from the inside I might be making a drastic career change.


Oh dear, that is scary. Keep us posted! I often wonder about the cleansers we use on the ambulance.

Welcome, *bluebirdiemama*!

Congratulations to everyone on their anniversaries ... we'll be celebrating five years on August 15th, which is why Esmé's middle name is Augusta.









Hey, for any of you with happy eaters, is there any time when you limit healthy food? Esmé is eating A LOT these days, and I've always believed that if she's hungry, she will eat, and if she's full, she'll stop. Do I need to worry about her eating too much at this stage? So long as it's good fruit and veg and beans and such? Seriously, this kid is a bottomless pit!


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## Vegan Princess

justkate: I am doing the vinegar. Didn't do it much over weekend bc we were out so much...doing it today. Thanks for the laundry tip!!

McKittre: Makenna's favorite word is "more". She wants more of everything! It can be a bit annoying.

Starling: I wouldn't worry. M had a few days that she ate sooo much, I couldn't believe it! She was also sleeping a lot and I think having a growth spurt. The eating like that didn't last too long. As long as it's healthy and she's not getting a tummy ache, don't worry.

Bluebirdie: Welcome! LOL about the overalls! I still wear DD in the ergo into most stores. Though she finally had a ride in the cart and had a delightful time.

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

Starling I have a plan of action now for getting the cleaner changed so I will keep you updated. It might be a long process but at least I am trying instead of just griping. What product do you use in the ambulance? Oh and I never limit healthy food. If I find that the kids are asking to eat because they are bored they won't finish what they ask for and then I distract. Other than that I think they need to learn self regulation.

Mal Oh gosh that is scary! Glad Owyn is ok.

Thursday







Juniper!


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## justKate

We don't limit healthy food either. Of course it's not an issue here, because Aubs has decided that she will only eat tortillas and cheese.


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## mamamillet

Willa ate almost 1/2 lb bluberries the other night. I did cut her off. I normally don't but it was her first experience with them so i was jsut a bit concerned about how she ould digest them...


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## mckittre

The only healthy food I limit is raisins - he'd eat them all day if he could, and they come right through whole.

Speaking of food, between my lightweight toddler and active pregnant self, I need to work on cooking more high-calorie meals. We could both use some weight gain.

welcome bluebirdie! Luckily, as Katmai's gotten a little older, he's actually been getting easier to redirect and tell him where to go or what to do. And he's not running yet, so I can still keep up easily enough.


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## AKislandgirl

Yeah, DH is home! He got in last night. Fiona wouldn't let him hold her at the airport but when he was out of site while loading his luggage in the car she started crying. Kind of like "I just got him back and now he's gone again!" By the time we got home she was happy to be in his lap with books and puzzles. He was gone for nearly a month which is such a long time for a little person (and her Mama!) We're glad to have him home!

We limit raisins too! Yes, whole raisins come through so I try to hide the box after she's had some. She would also eat them all day! But otherwise we pretty much let her dictate how much she wants to eat.

I ended up offering her milk a few times in this past week. Her first sip was hilarious. She got the weirdest look on her face and asked "Sat?" (what's that in Fiona speak).
Me: milk.
Her: No no milk Mama.
Me: Yes, its called cows milk. Do you like it?
Her: No! Takes a few more sips and sets it down. Waters, Waters.
Me: Would you rather have water?
Her: Yeah, with a huge smile. I give her water. Tank oo Mama!

She never takes more then a sip or two so I might just bag the whole milk thing for a while.


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Yeah, DH is home! He got in last night. Fiona wouldn't let him hold her at the airport but when he was out of site while loading his luggage in the car she started crying. Kind of like "I just got him back and now he's gone again!" By the time we got home she was happy to be in his lap with books and puzzles. He was gone for nearly a month which is such a long time for a little person (and her Mama!) We're glad to have him home!

We limit raisins too! Yes, whole raisins come through so I try to hide the box after she's had some. She would also eat them all day! But otherwise we pretty much let her dictate how much she wants to eat.

I ended up offering her milk a few times in this past week. Her first sip was hilarious. She got the weirdest look on her face and asked "Sat?" (what's that in Fiona speak).
Me: milk.
Her: No no milk Mama.
Me: Yes, its called cows milk. Do you like it?
Her: No! Takes a few more sips and sets it down. Waters, Waters.
Me: Would you rather have water?
Her: Yeah, with a huge smile. I give her water. Tank oo Mama!

She never takes more then a sip or two so I might just bag the whole milk thing for a while.

It took Owyn a while to learn to like cow's milk too. She hardly drank any of it the first couple weeks I offered it to her. But she was hardly nursing anymore, so I kept trying. Now, she loves it and gulps it down when I give her a cup of it.

What are you guys up to for the 4th? I'm hoping Owyn will like the fireworks. She hardly noticed them last year and fell asleep part way through the show.


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## Thursday Girl

PINK EYE- you can use contact drops. I got rid of pink eye quite succesfully that way, although I did occasionally squirt myself in the eye with breastmilk, but the contact solution was consistent.

THRUSH Dr.Jack Newman's (breastfeeding guru) approach to treating thrush!

Junie knows her different body parts! She was also so excited her Daddy got home (after only 10 days away). Like Fiona at the airport she was a bit trepiditous. she went to him but wouldn't talk to him.(even though everytime she saw a picture of him while he was away she would squeal and say "dada". But this morning she was just squealing and saying "dada, dada" and climbing all over him.

welcome Bluebirdie!

*Starling*- like the others said I wouldn't limit healthy food, although i totally agonized over this choice with my first who would sit down and put away massive amounts of fruits. My second I worried about how many clementines she could eat in one sitting. BUt they really do seem to regulate themselves. I don't limit raisons either, I read somewhere that liek corn, even though it comes out whole they have digested the nutrients in it.

So I have mentioned my doula course coming up before, I guess my husband plans on keeping the baby for the 3 days I am gone. I was thinking she would come with me and my new step mom would keep her. I was unsure if I wanted to do that b/c I have only met her a few times and there were a few things that made me wonder. A) her telling the baby that she was being selfish when she was fussing and crying to get down. we were at a theme park, and had been there for 2-3 hours. Junes had been carried the whole time, so of course she wnated down!!! WE adults were being the selfish ones for not letting her get a chane to do anything fun.
B) when they took my four year old the let a 7 year old (her granddaughter) "be in charge of her" and tell her when she was being good or bad. They relayed the "cute" story of how my four year old cam up and asked them "When I am with you and Grampy, you are in charge of me, right?"

so I have to decide not see the baby for 3 days, 2 nights and leave her during the day with my step mom who would keep her safe but NOT do things how I would, or leave her with dh (who also does things a bit different than me) who Loves her to death, who she adores and then have her be fed bottles. she has never been away from me. She will fall asleep with dh but usually she falls asleep crying. PLUS I kind of want him to see what it's like with 3 kids by yourself. I think he has only had them all about 6 times. BUT I don't want my need for a break from the kids, and my wanting him to understand to keep me from making the best choice for the kids. So I need to soul search and see what will be the best for the baby and the family.


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## Mal85

I left Owyn with DH for a weekend a last fall. It was a really hard decision and I really felt like she was too young. But she did great! She still followed her normal routine like she does with me and was doted on all weekend by her daddy, which is something she rarely got until then. I think it was really great for their relationship; they really bonded while I was away.

I took Owyn swimming with a friend last night and she did the best she's ever done in the water. She has water wings, which she loves and will float with them on. But usually she only floats, no kicking her feet or splashing or blowing bubbles. She's just totally chill in the water. Last night, she was totally into it. She was even putting her whole face under the water and would come up laughing, she loved it so much! And she figured out if she kicks her feet, she can go somewhere!

When we got home, she was so tired. She got her PJ's on and a cup of milk, crawled into my lap and just laid there snuggling with me until she was ready for bed. Took me back to our evening time together when she was still nursing. She never snuggles like that anymore, it was so sweet.


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## AKislandgirl

Courtney, tough call. I think it would be hard to be away but I'd lean towards leaving her with DH. Maybe do a day and night with DH and have your Step Mom come join you with her for the last night - might be a good compromise.

We are still struggling with getting to sleep around here. Once she is asleep we do well. It's just that she is fighting bedtime so hard core. I don't know what to do. We have been working on a nice calm bedtime routine but it doesn't seem to be helping. I would love love love to have this girl in bed before 10:30! I know that it being so light out is part of the problem. Can't change that. Ugh!

Even though we are doing well once she is asleep I've been day dreaming about nightweaning. I just read this article by Jay Gordon. Anyone use those methods with success? And is it a bad idea to attempt this a month before traveling? Maybe we should wait. Thoughts?


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: We night weaned, back slid and now are embarking on night 3 of re-nightweaning. We didn't do the complete jay gordon method. Nursing time was already short. We skipped the nurse then put down awake and just went from short nursing to no nursing. Night 1 was awful again. Last night wasn't so bad. Hoping tonight is even better. I just reached my breaking point the other night when I was not feeling well and she was attached to me for 4 hours straight bc she would wail if she wasn't. I'm sorry but at a year and a half that isn't ok with me. So we're done nursing at night. Period. Even if she gets sick again.

Thursday: I would choose DH. Hard to leave but having her sisters will certainly help her feel ok.

I finally ovulated! But I also got my period 3-5 days later!! So nursing is still definitely impacting my fertility!

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

ok so I have a flip situation. My dh wants to go to a folk festival and I am working so he wants to take the kids with him. It would be for 4 days 3 nights. Would you mama's be ok with that? I know that if I went away I would leave the baby with dh no question but him taking them on a trip by himself I don't know? He would be staying with family and my SIL is going so he would have help. It's in August so dd will be 18 months.

Mal that's so cool about the swimming I haven't even broached that subject this year as dd hates to get wet even in the bath. My IL's have a pool and we are going there for a week I am hoping she will see all the fun and want to get in.


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## Vegan Princess

Nilla: I don't think I'd be comfortable with DH taking M to a folk festival without me and 3 nights is a long time! Of course I have yet to spend more than a portion of a day away from her, let alone a night. I think being away from home might compound the difficulty of being without mama. I suppose it also depends on the personality of your little one. Mine is entrenched in a needing mama phase right now!!


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## alaskaberry

Nilla--I definitely wouldn't be comfortable with my baby going away for 3 days! We are pretty attached to one another. It is nice to have a break sometimes, but for 3 hours, not 3 days! However, if you feel comfortable with it, you could try it for a day and see how she makes out.

Akisland--I did Jay Gordon's nightweaning on ds1 when I was pregnant. It worked pretty well, but I would do it after traveling since traveling messes with their inner clocks so much! Re milk: are you still bf'ing Fiona? If so, I wouldn't worry about cow's milk for now! And when she's older, she can always eat cheese instead of drinking milk (I dislike the taste of milk, I don't drink it often so I don't make my kids drink it either lol).

Mal--that sounds so fun! I'm glad she likes swimming! It's the worst when they hate water.

Starling--Nope, we don't limit any foods. Except raisins, again, cause they come right out again on the other side.

Mckittre--I wish Tucker knew "more", it would be a lot more civilized than an angry shriek!

Bluebirdiemama--welcome! I love your dd's name! My little guy is also an escape artist.

We have been in Vermont for two weeks now...I am really enjoying this vacation and the kids are really enjoying seeing their grandparents. Tucker has discovered the 'beach' (what we call the rec, cause it's a pond) and he loves, loves, loves swimming with mama and wading. The other day he tried to run into the water, tripped, fell in, picked himself back up and did it again. The second time he burst into tears, he really wanted to follow his brother and the other big kids. So I nursed him until he felt better. I'm still nursing, not planning on weaning anytime soon.


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## starling&diesel

*nilla* ... I wouldn't be okay with sending DD off with DP for that long. I realize there's a serious double standard at play by saying that, and I wish I would be okay with that, but I'm not, and neither would dd be. She still nurses so much, and is super attached.

*Thursday* ... I don't know what I'd do! I'd want DD close, but I wouldn't want someone who had such different parenting styles taking care of her. Yeesh. Hard decision, mama!

Cindy ... Good luck with the nightweaning! We seriously regressed this last week while we've all been sick with strep throat, and DD is teething in addition to that. I set the restrictions again last night and it was ugly. The good thing is that she only woke and freaked for her num-nums once. Phew. We've been so sick around here, I don't know that I could've withstood withholding the nursing until last night. I think we're back on track. Hope your night was good!










*Mal85*...What a little superswimmer you have there! Esmé is a fish too. She flings herself into the pool with joyful abandon every time. We're starting her second round of lessons next Sunday.


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
ok so I have a flip situation. My dh wants to go to a folk festival and I am working so he wants to take the kids with him. It would be for 4 days 3 nights. Would you mama's be ok with that? I know that if I went away I would leave the baby with dh no question but him taking them on a trip by himself I don't know? He would be staying with family and my SIL is going so he would have help. It's in August so dd will be 18 months.

Mal that's so cool about the swimming I haven't even broached that subject this year as dd hates to get wet even in the bath. My IL's have a pool and we are going there for a week I am hoping she will see all the fun and want to get in.

Looks like I'm in the minority on this one. I'd probably be okay with DH taking Owyn on a trip like that, especially knowing he would have someone there to help him out when he needs it. Owyn isn't nursing anymore, though, so that isn't a concern I have with her being away from me.


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## Mal85

Owyn spent the night with her grandma and grandpa last night, first time with both mommy and daddy gone for the night. I really missed her, but she did great! We were supposed to go camping and they offered to keep her. The camping fell through, but they were planning on it and wanted to go ahead and keep her anyway. So, we ended up just spending time with friends and blowing things up for Independence Day.

They said she went to sleep at her normal time and she woke around 12:30, but they were able to easily get her back to sleep and she slept until 6:30 this morning!







My MIL took her to church with her this morning, so we didn't get to pick her up until almost noon and she went right to sleep when she got home. Must have worn her out with all the new things happening. I am so glad it went well! We were hoping to do an overnight out of town towards the end of this summer, so this was a good test run to see how she did and she passed with flying colors!

There are times when I truly, truly miss my little baby, especially now that she's not nursing anymore. But, I have to say it is nice having a little bit of freedom.


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## Vegan Princess

Ahhhh freedom. I don't know that feeling! My kid is driving me nuts this morning with the constant demand to nurse! I'm so glad it went well Mal! That's so exciting!!

We had a bbq at a friend's house from playgroup. The 2 other girls didn't ask to nurse at all the 5 hours we were together. We kept them up way past bedtime to see fireworks (not sure why they were a day early?)...by the end, I had to wear M in the ergo so she could just stay attached to my boob constantly! Anyway, M didn't like the fireworks at first - kept saying "no no" but then they grew on her and she was saying "mo" (more). I don't think we'll be keeping her up for them tonight though.

Starling: Hope you are all feeling better. The re-nightweaning is going better. From the 2nd night on she has woken a couple times but we've had success getting her back to sleep by singing Old Macdonald. That is her magic song. I sing it in the car to keep her awake or if she's upset it calms her down. Anyway, she is still waking at night a couple times...hopefully eventually that will stop again when she realizes she won't get to nurse. She had started sleeping through the night last time. But at least we haven't had anymore nights that were spent awake for hours on end (knock on wood).

Cindy


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## mamamillet

Willa is a funny nurser. If we have company or are out and about she rarely asks to nurse but if we are at home with just fam she asks frequently. I could use an afternoon without the babe to devote one on one time with DS. He and I have been driving each other crazy and I know it comes from him needing a bit more then he is getting. hopefully soon.


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
Owyn spent the night with her grandma and grandpa last night, first time with both mommy and daddy gone for the night.

Wow! That's awesome that it went so well. I was just thinking the other day that it's been seventeen months since DP and I slept in the same bed without Esmé. Strange. I'm not ready for an overnight away, I don't think. Something to aim for though!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
The re-nightweaning is going better. From the 2nd night on she has woken a couple times but we've had success getting her back to sleep by singing Old Macdonald. That is her magic song. I sing it in the car to keep her awake or if she's upset it calms her down. Anyway, she is still waking at night a couple times...hopefully eventually that will stop again when she realizes she won't get to nurse. She had started sleeping through the night last time. But at least we haven't had anymore nights that were spent awake for hours on end (knock on wood).

Cindy

Our magic song is "You are my sunshine" or "Little Sack of Sugar". Either of those settle her beautifully. Works wonders! Oh, and "Baby Beluga" is our magic in-the-car song. We've been using that one for pacifying since we lived three hours up the mountains and had looooong drives too and from the midwives in the early weeks.


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## mckittre

Katmai's song is "itsy bitsy spider" or the ABC song.

Our town has big 4th of July festivities every year (no fireworks though, since it doesn't get dark enough), but I'm escaping the chaos for a little while so Katmai can have a nap. We had 10 babies (all the town's under 2s) in a float in a parade this year, in a chain of wagons decorated as boats with fish nets, all with hats decorated as smolt (baby salmon). Very cute and fun.

Katmai is an always nursing baby too. He asks to nurse whenever he feels unsure about anything (so he had to nurse both before and after the parade), whenever he's in a new situation that makes him nervous, or whenever he feels like mom's been neglecting him too much. Definitely more than other kids his age, I think. I don't know what he'll do when I run out of milk (I think most women do in pregnancy sometime).

I need to nightwean before the new baby in December, but will probably wait until September to start, since my husband's leaving in a couple days for a few weeks, then we have a month long hiking trip after that.


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## AKislandgirl

Fiona nurses all the time. She likes to say "nu nu, yeah, yeah, Ok" to let me know that she wants to nurse. Cute. We're going to hold off on the night weaning until we get back from our travels.

We are having a bunch of friends over for a 4th of July BBQ and to play bocce in about an hour. The towns fireworks were last night at midnight, we didn't stay up! Any earlier and its too light out! They usually get weathered out and do the fireworks for New Years but we are having some decent weather for a change. It seemed my entire neighborhood was shooting off fireworks last night though. Tough nights sleep for this house. Our dogs totally freak out too. I was grateful for night nursing last night because everytime a big firework startled Fiona awake she would go for the boob instead of actually waking up which was great.

Happy 4th Friends! I'll catch up with the rest of the posts in a bit!


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## Thursday Girl

NIlla, I would let DH take the kids to a folk festival w/ help. Totally. As long as he agreed to not drink. When we have our camp trips his friends are there and they all drink and no way i would let him take the kids by himself in a situation like that, but I also know if he was soley responsable for them he wouldn't be out drinking.

we aren't nightweaning, but lately she doesn't wake up to nurse at night either. (most of the time). I am trying to limit her day feedings but it is NOT going well. She nurses when she wakes up and then again at 10, 12, 2, 3, 4,6, 8, 9 for her nurse to sleep. Yes like a damn newborn. Then everytime she is just thirsty she will come have a couple of sips. She doesn't liek any sippy cups, but will drink out of a normal cup until she's bored or done and then she pours whatever is left on the ground. *sarcasm*-Totally fun!

Erin- Junie also nurses in "new" situations.

SWIMMING_ Junes likes to swim, unfortunately we don't have a lot of access to pools.


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## Mal85

Hey ladies, hope everyone had a good 4th! Owyn LOVED the fireworks. She watched me shoot some off during the day and loved them! I got her some of the little snappers to throw on the ground, and she walked around looking for anything else she could throw to make a pop! It was really cute. I was surprised she made it to the nighttime show, I thought she'd pass out. But she was wired from all the excitement and laid on a blanket with me shouting WHOA!! through the whole show and clapping her hands after some really big ones. It was adorable!

I have a question for those of you that are involved with playgroups. I have a friend with a little one 4 months older than Owyn, we have another friend with a newborn and one who is due next month. I also keep one a month older than Owyn and my friend who is pregnant is going to start watching a almost-3 year old soon. So, we were thinking, since we're all home with our little ones (along with some extras) we should start our own playgroup. What do you guys do at playgroup? How often do you meet? Do you plan certain activities for the kids or just let them freely play with each other?


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## Vegan Princess

Makenna slept through the night on Sunday! Up once last night and then down until 5. We ae definitely seeing improvement!! Yay!

Mal: I go to 2 playgroups. My main 1 started when the babes were 10 months old. We meet at a house or tot area of a park. Someone hosts each week and is responsible for picking a location and bringing snacks. Then the mamas chat and the kiddos run around and play. No structure. The 2nd one just started up a month ago. It is run by a children's center than got a grant from First Five to run it. It is in the same room every time, which is filled with tons of toys and they usually set up an art project and a table of home made playdough. We stop half way through and they provide food and drinks for the babies. At the end we do circle and sing songs. The only thing we've found over time in my main playgroup if that it is somewhat important that ages be fairly close...unless you watch carefully. Doesn't work as well to have 2 yr olds with imobile babies. But you can make it work. I encourage you to get something going...I don't know what I would have done without my playgroup this whole time! It has been extra important for me since I have no family in the area and most of my friends are still in the city, which is 1/2 hour away. Now I have a whole new set of friends! 

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

For our playgroup we have 4 babies that are within a few months of each other. Sometimes older sisters (4 and 5) are there, sometimes not. We rotate houses so the kids can play with new toys and one person doesn't have to clean the house each week!







The moms chat, the toddlers check each other out and play with new toys. We don't do snack but the kids usually bring there own. I do especially with Fiona since most of the times the other kids are snacking on goldfish or cheerios and she can't eat them. If its nice out we play in the yard but usually its not and we are inside. We started just a few months back and I really love it. It is so nice to have adult conversation!!

It totally started raining for our BBQ (like half and hour before everyone arrived!) but we still had fun. Fiona wasn't too sure about her house being filled with people. She was pretty much in my arms or DH's the whole time. BUT I'm so happy because usually its just me that will do and she was equally happy with DH. Since he got back from his trip she has been all about Papa. Pretty cute! She's not cranky in these situations but she's not her usual independent self. I wonder if the shy streak will stay? I have a bit of it myself!


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## starling&diesel

*playgroup* ... sounds fun! We don't have a formal playgroup, but our neighbourhood parks serve the same purpose in good weather, and our local family resource centre does the same on rainy days. I would second the notion to keep an eye out on the mixed ages. I see a lot of pushy behaviour while the parents are busy chatting. I don't think you'll have the same problem in a smaller group though.

Esmé doesn't like groups much, so we tend to do a LOT of watching from the sidelines, so we see a LOT of the dynamics. As with any group, there are plenty of politics between parents and politics between children too. I'm not sure what I think of them when there are more than half a dozen kids.

Not sure that it is a constructive experience when the parents are drinking starbucks and texting and chatting while their three-year-olds dominate the push cars and play kitchen and knock over smaller children. It's so hard to know when to step in. Some kid threw a truck at the park yesterday and it hit a tiny babe-in-arms, so I said very sternly, "Hey, NOT okay! No throwing." The mom caught up to him and took him away, but not before telling me not to discipline her kid, thank you very much. Can't win.

*shyness, socializing, lifestyle* ... Esmé is very shy around children, but quite comfortable around adults. We've tried so hard to include children in her life from day one, but she just doesn't like to be around them, not even one on one. She likes the vantage point from my lap, my boob, or from standing between my legs while she clutches her stuffed rabbit. If the park empties, then she ventures out and has a great time on the slide and such, but if there are more than even two or three other kids around, she's glued to whoever she's there with. The same goes for playgroups, library time, the pool, wherever.

Part of the reason we moved to the city from the mountain was so that she'd have more opportunities to be socialized, because I tend to be a loner and it's easy to be a loner in a tiny mountain town. Seeing how she's developing, I kind of wish we'd stayed put.







She's far happier collecting rocks or chasing birds. We're going to have to make a big decision as she gets older. If she's not the kid for school, then we'll be homeschooling. I don't think she'd like the colourful chaos of the local alternative school. I've always said that it'll be up to her. If she's that kid longing to get on the bus by the time she's three and pretending to go to school with her stuffies, then fabulous, public school it is (in French, mind you) but if this is her true and lasting personality, then there is no way that I am going to force her into a strange, scary experience at the age of five. Yeesh. I have to stop thinking so hard.









AFU: *Hand, foot, and mouth disease*. It wasn't strep after all. Anyone have any experience with the coxsackie virus? And words of wisdom?


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## justKate

Gosh, lots to catch up on. Sounds like everyone had a good 4th.

I just wasted $10. I couldn't help it. I asked IntuitiveJamie a question... here but it hasn't popped up yet.
I don't know why I'm so obsessed with growing my family, or planning it, or whatever! We aren't really TTC or TTA...maybe just being around here gets it in my head. Anyway, I guess spending $10 that way is no worse than spending it on lotto tickets or Vitamin Water or car washes. What happened to the old carefree, take it as it comes, me?!









ETA: Re. *coxsackie virus* *shudder*, that is the worst sore throat I've had in my life. I had it about 5 months ago. Aubs didn't, but I'm sure I got it from one of the little ones at her school. Worst sore throat EVER. Don't mess with the blister/spots, just makes them take longer to heal. Tea if you have it, lots of nursies for DD. And tylenol. We aren't big tylenol fans, but pain relief was necessary. Hope it is better soon.


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## Everrgreen

Okay, wow, so much to read and catch up on!

RE leaving babes for a night - No way would that work here. Even when I attended my friend's birth (and therefore was able to return to Royce a couple of times to nurse/nap with him through the night) it still left him practically traumatized. It has been almost 6 weeks and he is just now allowing me to leave the room without a complete melt down. I wonder if it's because I'm parenting solo and so he has literally had no one but me with him at bedtime? Or it could just be his personality. I do fantasize about a weekend away though









RE playgroups - I go to one that is at a local church and daycare is provided while us moms go to another room to chat. Royce doesn't usually last in the daycare and gets brought to me. I also have started going to a new one that is all outdoor stuff, so far it's just been a different local park each week, but this week a beach trip is being planned. Royce also tends to cling to me, but sometimes he gathers his courage and ventures a few feet away









RE nursing - Royce also nurses quite a bit mainly when he's tired or if he has hurt himself. Although I do say no a lot too or try and distract him. I've been feeling very touched-out lately and he has been so clingy and is always grabbing at me and pulling on my clothes and whining and wanting to sit on me (beside me is never good enough). It has been driving me insane!

Okay, so I've lost my train of thought. I guess that's all I'm going to respond to.


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## mckittre

I certainly couldn't leave Katmai for a night, but that's mostly because I've yet to institute a go-to-sleep routine that doesn't involve nursing (unless someone wanted to wear him and hike all night long). During the day, 3 or 4 hours is about his maximum "away from mama" tolerance.

Playgroup/socializing: I don't do a formal playgroup, but I see other folks with young children reasonably often at parties and other events. Generally if the kids are older than Katmai (2.5 and up), they'll take the initiative to play with him and can do entertaining new things, so he's pretty interested. If the kids are his age or younger, he wants nothing to do with them - shies away, ignores them entirely, or tries to push them away from the toy he's playing with.
He doesn't mind groups, but is only comfortable being watched by mom, dad, or his grandmas, and will get very upset if anyone else tries. Yet he'll take off in a crowd, intent to go look at big cars in the parking lot, with or without me. I do feel like I should make more of an effort to get him together with similar age kids, or get him comfortable being watched by other adults, but I don't seem to get around to it.

starling - Kids change a lot as they grow. Feel grateful that you have two potential good options (the local school and homeschooling), and try not to worry too much yet!


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## Thursday Girl

starling- hope she recovers quickly.

she will fall asleep for her daddy. She took a nap for him the other day and fell alseep to them (DH and the other two girls) singing to her.

playgroup- i have a playgroup i meet with occasionally for Juniper. It's tough b/c everyone else only has one kid who is about June's age and here i come tromping in with 3 kids. So i don't go as often as they do. I do get together with friends who have kids, the ages are always very mixed and they are more like playdates and I just try to vary who's friend we are seeing. It seems like at leats one of my kids is left out in these. Usually the baby which is why i try to get to the playgroup. The older two will play together anyways, but I sometimes worry that the active play of them will put the moms off. I remember what it was like to have 1 young kid and be overwhelmed by the rambunctiousness of older children. Most first time moms are very different from a more exeprienced mom. if my husband was home more often I'd have him watch some kids wihle i took the other to a playgroup or play date for that kids friend. BUT that isn't goign to happen.

Erin- Junes has been super clingy the past 2 days or so. She will ONLY let me hold her practically. I think she is getting some new teeth because she has been gnawing on her hands a lot. Before this she would so happily go to daddy or anyone really.


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## Thursday Girl

So junie is "communicating": more. she is toally mangaling the "traditional" baby sign language signs BUT i know what she means.

*The first was milk which she signs when she wants something.
*PLease isn't the hand in the center of the chest rubbing a circle but both hands pulled up the sides of her chest.
* the newest one she has "messed" up is I was flipping my hand over for all done and gone. Well apparently she was caught up in her feelings while I signed those things because she uses them to mean more.


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## justKate

Had an appointment with our doc last Thursday b/c Aubs hadn't slept or eaten anything but cheese for 4 days. Diagnosis: _Bad_ ear infections. Weight: 19 lbs. 6 oz.

Follow up with doc yesterday: ears mostly better. We did antibx--_had to_ this time. Weight: 20 lb. 13 oz.










Re. playgroups, we've tried...mostly for me. I WOTH so she gets plenty of age-appropriate baby interaction during the week. I'd like some mom friends, but honestly I don't feel comfortable with the moms I've met on the local Austin AP meet-up forum (not mentioning any names, of course). It sort of seems like an exclusive club that you can't be a part of if you don't do _everything_ "right." Like they're complain about being judged by more mainstream mamas but then seem to judge me because I use disposable diapers.

So I co-sleep, am BFing, wear Aubs when she'll let me, selectively vax, and live as naturally as possible. I also use 'sposies and let Aubs watch the Wonder Pets. I don't buy organic everything from Central Market. I don't care if others can't or choose not to extended breastfeed. I don't care if you vax or don't, or where your baby sleeps (I _wish_ mine would sleep in a crib!). I hate that we can make "different" choices and then judge others for not making the same ones. So anyway, that's why I quit AAP.

And I really appreciate that you guys accept me, even though I don't CD and don't buy organic cheerios. I hope.


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## AKislandgirl

OMG JustKate, you don't buy organic cheerios!! I don't know if I can handle that! Just kidding!









Ugh, we are having rain rain and more rain. Is it too much to ask for a little sunshine this summer?! Oh wait, we did have that one week last month...









We hung up a picture of Fiona in our room last night that we finally got framed. She was crawling onto the bed and pointed at it and said, "Who's dat baby?" When did you start talking like this baby girl?! I'm glad DH heard or he wouldn't have believed me. Her "sentences" are more typically, more peas, hi Papa, stuck Mama, help peas, Nu-nu yeah yeah... that kind of thing. I don't know who told her she could turn into a big girl!

haircuts? Who's done them? Fiona's hair is wild and curly and long. If I don't pull the front into a pony tail on top of her head its in her eyes all the time. I don't know if I'm ready for a haircut though. I'm hoping that we can just let it keep growing and it will be long enough to stay tucked behind her ears. Maybe I should cut her bangs though. She's always brushing it out of her eyes. Hmmm....


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## alaskaberry

*re playgroups:* I don't do formal playgroups, per se. Mostly I just meet with my friends (and most of them have kids) and we do a "playdate" which is kids play together while mamas knit (or chat, etc).







Some of the kids are older, some are younger. It's a good mix. Tucker loves pretty much everyone (esp babies!).


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: LOL about the cheerios. I finally bought REAL cheerios for the first time. Haha. I would hate to be judged! And since when does cloth diapering make you an attachment parent? It's the other things that do anyway.

I'm fortunate that the area where we live is pretty crunchy. So my regular playgroup is pretty AP. Most still breastfeed and most cloth diaper. But we do have a mix and that is nice too.

Haircuts: not yet. Can't bring mysel to do it, depsite wild and crazy hair. It's fine if she leaves a clip in but that doesn't usually happen.

Decided to really cut down the nursing. I had tried to put her on a schedule and then she got sick. I need to get back to it. Yesterday, the entire day was spent nursing or crying to nurse. Not working for me like this anymore! I'm not ready to wean. The idea still breaks my heart. But i need some sanity. I'm still thinking she'll nurse 4 times/day. But for now even 5-6 is what I'm aiming for. Which is how many times she nurses for most of her infancy, until she became obsessed and able to tell me about it, around a yr old! Oh and we have stuck with the night weaning. She has slept through the night once and now is getting pretty close most nights. And she at least goes back to sleep easily without nursing, even if she does wake up. Yay!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Kate, I'm sorry you feel so judged. I sometimes get that vibe when I peruse other areas on mdc. I love it here, but there is pressure to be just so crunchy and I feel judged if you admit to being a little more soggy than others. AP is in the way you parent and interact with your child, not in the kind of diapers you use or the kind of food you buy. Around here it can sometimes feel like survival of the crunchiest. Lol. I certainly won't judge you!

I'm thinking about putting owyn in sposies overnight. I feel like we've been fighting rash after rash since christmas and I've tried EVERYTHING with her diapers! It's the worst in the morning, she will wake with blisters on her butt! It just kills me to see her in pain all the time. She has really started hating diaper changes because it hurts when I wiape her even when I try to be as gentle as possible.


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## Mal85

Oh, and haircuts.... Owyn had her first hair cut just before her birthday. We just cut off the rat-tail she had in the back where it was quite a bit longer than the rest of her hair. Then, my SIL tried trimming up her bangs on time and ended up chopping it short all the way to her ear!!!







So, my dad ended up shaping it up to make it look normal, so it was pretty short for a little bit. It's getting long again now and hanging down in her eyes again, but NO ONE will be touching it again! Not after that experience!

Owyn still doesn't talk a whole lot, so it amazes me to hear these phrases your little ones are putting together! She has words, but one at a time mostly. Sometimes she's say "Bye bye Daddy". We came in the house a couple weeks ago and she pushed the door open and said "Hiiiii!" then came waltzing in shouting "Daddy! Daddy!". It was pretty adorable. Her receptive language is definitely there, though. She understands what we say and simple commands. It's crazy being able to actually communicate with her now. I can ask her questions and in her way, she responds.


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## Everrgreen

No hair cuts here - Royce is just now starting to HAVE hair lol! He'll probably be in school before he needs one









And Royce isn't talking either, I'm also amazed at the things other LO's are saying. Royce doesn't say anything recognizable other than mama, and even that is more in a babble. But he definitely understands what I'm saying, so that's good!

I wouldn't really say my area is crunchy, but I know lots of other moms who breastfeed, cloth diaper, bedshare, etc. etc. etc. Maybe my area is more crunchy than I realize!

Mal - That sounds like a pretty bad diaper rash. I'm sure you've already thought of everything, but could it be a reaction to a detergent or a food? Are you using a fleece liner or something to wick away moisture? Does she get lots of naked time (this seems to be the best way to keep rash away for Royce).


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## AKislandgirl

That does sound like a bad rash! Poor girl. Could she be reacting to microfiber or whatever material your diaper is made of? I saw that GMD's is selling silk liners to help with rash. Might be worth a try. Once Fiona had a persistent rash that I treated with tee trea oil. I diluted about 10 drops in olive oil and dabbed on at each diaper change. The rash was gone in a day! I continued to treat for about 3 days to be sure it wouldn't come back.

Fiona is sick with diarrhea. My poor baby. We were up most of the night. She's nursing and drinking lots of water. She ate a couple bites of banana but isn't really interested in food. Cant blame her, I've already changed 6 poopy diapers today. Is there anything else I should be doing for her?


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## Mal85

Yeah, we've changed detergents several times... used less detergent, added rinse cycles, kept an eye on foods, etc, etc, etc.... I don't use a fleece liner, but most of the time at home we go with a prefold and no cover so I can tell just when she's peed and change her diaper. I thought maybe the berries she'd been eating... berries are one of the only fruits she'll eat consistently, that and grapes. So we cut those out to see if it helped and nope. When her rash gets really bad, I put her in sposies until it clears up and there is considerable difference as soon as I put her in the sposies. I'm at a loss.


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## mamamillet

Mal- Have you tried stripping your dipes? Try running them thru a few HOT cycles without any detergent. It is amazing how much build up there can be sometimes. If you do the first run without and open up and see suds without having added anything chances are there is some build up!


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## Mal85

Yup, we boil them anytime the rash gets bad enough to use sposies.

Her rash cleared up today, so she's back in cloth right now. If it comes back, I'm going to start the sposies at night and see if that helps. I love using cloth diapers for so many reasons, but if sposies are going to keep her from having blisters on her butt, so be it.


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## Vegan Princess

I have a question for all you mommas. So I am losing a lot of hair again - not quite as bad as a few months post partum, but similar. I also just got my period back a couple months ago and just ovulated for the first time a few weeks ago - so lots of hormonal changes going on. I'm wondering if anyone else is either 1) experiencing this now or 2) went through this when AF came back? Just trying to figure out what could be causing it. I'm also wondering if it has to do w/having mirena removed in early April? Not stressed out (other than any other mom of a toddler is, LOL) and doubt it's my thyroid. Thanks!!

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

I went through a couple of lots of hair comig out after I had my second daughter. I don't rmemeber how it cam eout when i got my first period back though.

we use disposables at night. I didn't with my second, but it doesn't bother me that i am so "uncrunchy" as to sposie at night, sometimes we even use sposies when we go to amusement parks b/c i already have enough to carry and don't want to have to lug around dirty dipes, or have them take up soo much room in my bag. I'm packing for 3 kids, w/ snacks, drinks, change of clothes that's a lot of stuff. I don't feel bad because it works for us.

as for the making you feel guilty, i am so sorry, that really sucks. I hate when stuff like that happens. I just did not have luck with joining playgroups, more luck with making up groups of moms with friends. we met at places like the birth center moms group,lll, mom and me gymnastics, and the kids school. I have an advantage that i have older kids so we have a lot of activities and stuff that i didn't have when my first daughter was our kids age. If your local library has baby time or free shows (like puppet shows and music performers) try going to those and see if you can meet any other moms. Bring a "business card" with your name, the babies name and your phone number or e-mail. Give it to any mom you might click with and then the ball is in their court. they might call you or they might not. but you might have just made a mommy friend. I actually have a playdate next week with a mom I met at the zoo that way.

Hope Fiona feels better soon, you sound like you are doing what you need to do. Just hug her a lot.

So I am going to drop my oldest off at camp today, 6 days, 5 nights. We are all very excited. I have been wanting to send her to camp since she was a baby, and now it's here and I think she will have so much fun. (but i will miss her, I already have one leter to drop off at camp so she will get it tomorrow, i made her a little necklace with a heart b/c "she is always in my heart" from a book we read a long time ago).


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## Everrgreen

I have actually noticed recently that Royce stays dry through the night. He does still wake to nurse throught the night but by 'wake' I mean he stirs a bit and 'asks' to nurse without even opening his eyes. So I guess he is staying asleep enough to not pee. One night when my diapers were in the laundry I layed some towels on the bed and let him sleep naked and he stayed dry.

I am thinking of taking Royce camping next weekend for his 18 months old milestone (I can't believe it







). I'm just waiting to make sure the weather looks okay. I have 2 friends that are going to come too, so it won't just be me and Royce (THAT would be an adventure!). But they both work so I will probably go Friday with Royce and set up the tent. I think Royce will have fun, he's not very scheduled and tends to go with the flow, and he loves being outdoors.

Cindy - sorry I didn't have that happen to me, but it definitely makes sense that with all the hormonal changes you are experiencing that the hair loss could be from that.

Has anyone noticed their pp af's being a lot easier than pre-pregnancy? I had the absolute worst cramps of my life during the year we were ttc, and before that I always had pretty bad cramps, but since my af returned I have had extremely mild cramping if anything. Maybe my cycles are still annovulatory? I am a lot more regular than I was when we were ttc.


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## mckittre

Kate: Judging is silly. I just fed Katmai a breakfast of regular cheerios and regular whole milk, because that's what WIC gave me. He'll survive.

Luckily in my town, we have few enough mom's with young kids that we can't afford to judge eachother. And it's a pretty relaxed place anyway.

Diapers: I've actually never used either cloth or disposable - always used the compostable gDiapers, composting all the wet ones. They've worked well for us (and with neither trash pickup nor running water, definitely most convenient).
Mal - if the cloth keep giving her rashes and you don't want to switch to disposables, you could try the gDiapers. Katmai's never had a rash in them.

I've been reorganizing the entire yurt now that my husband's out of town (and I can throw/give things away without objection) - making a bit more space for when the new one arrives.

Katmai's been totally obsessed with trucks lately. Big ones. And airplanes, construction equipment, etc... Do your little girls do this too, or is it something inherent in the Y chromosome? Also he's been interested in colors, so I've taught him red, yellow, brown and blue (as well as the signs for them). It seems like every day he learns new words and concepts. A fun age.


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## Vegan Princess

McKittre: Makenna is into trucks and buses and obsessed with trains!

Gillian: Camping sounds so fun!! Re: your cycles. I'd guess that if they are regular, you probably ARE ovulating. They get all wierd and long when you aren't. My mom said having babies cured her cramps. I did have some mild cramps this last time but AF has been very light the few times she's made an appearance so far.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *justKate* 

And I really appreciate that you guys accept me, even though I don't CD and don't buy organic cheerios. I hope.









We love you, justKate! I often find AP to be classist, in that many of the militant AP judge-y people have the money and the accompanying holier-than-thou education to make the 'choices' that they seem to think are the only way to go. We are pretty darn crunchy over here, as is our neighbourhood, but I do notice a lot of us vs. them mentality at the parks, especially. We do CD, babywear, extended BF, co-sleep, do gentle discipline, but I don't shout it from the rooftops like a lot of moms who congregate at the park for their AP judge-fests. I also let my babe eat a whole ice cream cone to herself, leave her to go to work long shifts, use hand-me-downs or do without, and give her Tylenol on occasion ... *gasp*.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 

haircuts? Who's done them? Fiona's hair is wild and curly and long. If I don't pull the front into a pony tail on top of her head its in her eyes all the time. I don't know if I'm ready for a haircut though. I'm hoping that we can just let it keep growing and it will be long enough to stay tucked behind her ears. Maybe I should cut her bangs though. She's always brushing it out of her eyes. Hmmm....

Oi ... I am right there with you, AK! Right now, we're growing out Esmé's hair. She wears ponytails most days, with a barrette keeping her bangs out of her face. I think it will be worth the hassle now, so that when it is long enough to tuck all of it behind her ears, we won't have to worry about haircuts. Esmé's hair is past her shoulders, and her bangs are down to the tip of her nose. When her hair is totally free, she has to tilt her head up to look out from under her bangs, like a truculant surfer dude. BUT ... I am counting on it being worth it in the end. I'm all for not paying for cuts, and nor do I want to try to do it myself, although I have trimmed her bangs twice. She's tolerating the ponytails and barrettes well enough, now that she understands that it keeps it out of her eyes.

We started our second session of swim lessons this morning, and was happy to discover that all of our swimming has paid off and Esmé is truly excelling. It's nice that she has something that she is 'expert' at, being that she is very shy and clingy, except when she's in the water. The other folks in the class were very impressed that she can go under, and jump off the ledge, and kick to get somewhere. Not sure that Esmé knew to be proud of herself, but I sure was! So often she is the little wallflower, so it was awesome to see her being the little star.









We hooked up our bike trailer and have been enjoying getting around the city that way. Esmé loves it, and knows that the helmet is mandatory, which is good. She sits in there, kicking her feet and hollering, "Faster, mama! Faster, mama, go, go, go!"

We also discovered an awesome free water park, with spray features and big puddles and a huge water slide, and have been spending mornings there during the heat wave. Man, is it hot out!


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## Mal85

Owyn is into very girly things right now. Which I find really funny, because I've never been into girly things at all. She loves jewelry. She loves dresses (she'll even grin real cute and twirl around when she has an especially twirly dress on). She is obsessed with shoes. She loooooves babies. Right now, she's very into her "baby". It's actually a troll doll I had when I was a kid. She kisses it and pats it's back. I have a little doll cradle from when I was little and she'll put her troll in it, cover it with a playsilk and rock it in the cradle. So adorable!

It's so funny to see traits coming out in her that are nothing like DH or I. Up until now, we've seen so many similarities between her and us and I look for traits that she got from us. But more and more at this age, I see so much of Owyn coming out. Like this newfound "girly-ness". So not me or DH, it's totally her own personality trait. I like that!


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## Thursday Girl

Junie likes toy cars, baby dolls, and moving things. Like EVERYTHING! Shje just moves them to different spots, or places them on the floors or switches them to a different container, but generally doesn't play with the actual things she is moving. It is endlessly annoying.

'ugh i had chinese food and i have the worst indigestion now. So wasn't worth it.

Starling, that's awesome that she is doing so well in that!! It's great when you find a something special for them.


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## Nillarilla

Mal Re: the dipes I had this problem a while ago. It was ammonia buildup in mine. Stripping didn't help at all. What works for me is using soapnuts and no other additives (I just recently discovered these a month or two ago). Also the sun bleaching at least once a week. I even used a couple tbsps of regular bleach in mine when it was rainy and no chance of line drying.
Delia likes to be girly too and she will drag her babies around and pat them and rock them and kiss them and make everyone else do the same. She likes pretty things like jewelry and shoes.
Gillian my cramps died down after my first and then were gone after my second. I think you make up for it with the after pains that get progressively worse with each kid ugh! Camping sounds awesome.


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## justKate

Mal, thanks.







Re. dipes, does Owyn have teeth coming through right now? Aubs only seems to get diaper rash when she eats something new that's very acidic or greasy, and when she is getting teeth. Not sure why. Maybe something about swallowing the excess saliva?

Haircuts--nothing here. Aubs' hair is pretty thin and ORANGE. She will not tolerate anything in her hair, so it just goes everywhere. Wild. I like it.

Her favorite things right now are "sigh" (outside), "chee" (cheese), "baby" (stuffed things, baby dolls), "KIII-EEE" (the neighbor's cat and photos of cats), and saying "mine." I don't know where she got that one but it needs to stop soon.

oops, late for work thing. gotta run....


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## AKislandgirl

Hi Mamas, been a quiet week on here. Fiona had a rough weekend of being sick and then ended up with a cold all week. She seems to be in pretty good spirits though.

We've decided to power through on the hair like you guys Starling! I agree, in the end it should be worth it. I can keep a pony in with a tiny rubber band but she won't keep clips in. Too bad, they look so cute! We embrace the wild side though!

I'm getting excited for the winter bizarre scene around here. I know its not for a long time but I'm planning to have a table at a couple so I'm beginning to make things. I'll be doing play silks, wool felted balls, birthday crowns, fairy wands, herbal bean bags... that kind of thing. I also make soap so I'm beginning to get my plan together for which scents to do. I may even set up an etsy shop with my extras. I need some kind of clever name though... any ideas?!


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## mckittre

It's finally been beautiful and sunny the last few days here, after a pretty rainy start to July. We've been having fun in the garden - Katmai likes to help me water, will pick plants if I ask him to (mostly he won't if I don't ask), and loves pulling his toy dump truck up and down the driveway.

On the bad side, he's been up until 11PM every night lately. And since my husband is out of town, and I had a work project I had to finish, that means I've been up until 2AM the last two nights working! Ugh. Luckily done with that now.

His hair is long in back, but not quite long enough in front to get in his eyes much yet. I guess when it is I'll probably get around to cutting it. People who don't know him occasionally think he's a girl, but I don't care.


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## Everrgreen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 
People who don't know him occasionally think he's a girl, but I don't care.

Royce is still mostly bald and gets called a girl ALL the time. The other day we were at a restaurant (and he was in a dark blue button up shirt) and the waiter said 'Oh she's cute, what's her name?'. I didn't really clue in at first, so I just automatically said 'Royce' and the waiter looked a little confused and then said 'oh, that's pretty'


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## Everrgreen

Sorry my computer is doing something weird so I had to post the above and start a new reply.

AK - You should definitely start an etsy store - it sounds like you are pretty talented! I am NOT crafty at all, unfortunately!

We didn't end up going camping this weekend. The place I wanted to go (where I always went as a kid) was totally booked. They are supposed to leave 15% of the sites open for those who just show up but a computer glitch allowed all of the sites to get reserved. I'm just glad I called before we went! So we are going to actually reserve a site for August and go then instead.

So I still need to think of something special to do tomorrow to celebrate Royce turning 18 months!


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## AKislandgirl

18 months! That is huge! I can't believe how big our babies are getting!! Maybe a picnic in the park would be fun. Is it sunny and nice where you live? Or a trip to the zoo or an aquarium would be fun!

We seem to be getting about 2 sunny days per month this summer. Such a bummer. BUT, I'm heading south in August! One week in Ohio with DH's family and 3 weeks in Washington (Whidbey Island) with my family. I'm really excited to settle in at my folks house especially. They live next door to my sister and her family of 8 kids! Between them they have 10 acres and tons of farm animals. Fiona is going to love it! (after she gets over the chaos factor!) My sis runs a farmers market stand on Saturdays and has an organic produce stand everyday. I can't wait to get my hands on fresh produce! I'm going to can some pasta sauce and salsa to send home as well as butcher chickens. We are also buying my nephews 4-H pig and having it butchered there and barged home. It's my chance to practice being a farm girl!


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## Vegan Princess

We just hosted my brother, his wife and their 11 kids!! He had 4, she had 6 and they had 1 together. And they have primary custody of all of them. Our house is tiny! But they fit and it was much less chaotic than I had anticipated. It was a lot of fun! Makenna had a great time with her cousins - and wow she was so much less maintenance as she was off playing with them instead of constantly asking to nurse, etc.

AK: The crafts sound great! I wish I could come browse your booth.

Gillian: Happy b-day to Royce! Makenna turns 18 months on the 29th...two days after my birthday. Not sure what we'll do yet. But she is indeed turning into such a little girl now! It's crazy! And so fun.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

AKislandgirl ... how about Anoif Designs? Fiona, backwards. Looks and sounds celtic. I'd love to shop your etsy!

We just got in from day two of the folk music festival here. Esmé is having a BLAST! I packed a wee bag of small toys, but haven't busted it out at all. She's having a great time rolling in the dirt and collecting sticks and dancing her butt off and eating blueberries and chickpeas and cucumber and tofu to her hearts content. She's such a cool kid. Last year she was just 5 and a half months old. So different this year! I always space out, watching all the people, but you can't do that with a toddler in a sea of thousands of people! She wanders off to watch someone hoola hoop, or runs after a trail of bubbles, and boom, she's gone! And this is from a super clingy kid! I think I'll write her info on the back of her shirt next year ... or is that a security risk?

Anyway, time to shower off the dirt and hit the sack in preparation for another long day at the beach, listening to fabulous music!


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## mckittre

Gillian - yay 18 months!

Sounds like everyone's having great summer fun. Katmai's been sick today, which is sad, but the couple of times he's been sick in his life he's always bounced back in a day or two, so I hope it's true this time. He's been nursing all day, but I barely have any milk left for him with this pregnancy, so I kind of feel guilty.

My husband is coming home tomorrow! It's kind of unfortunate, since he's coming home early from fieldwork because the GPS broke, but I'll be happy to have him home.

Starling - writing info on the back of the shirt sounds like a good idea. The 99.99% of well-meaning people will use it to bring her back, the 0.01% won't care either way.


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## Thursday Girl

yep, i agree w/ starling.

got back from my doula course. 3 days, no kids. Juniper did great, she wouldn't drink the milk i left, and she nursed the 30 hours before i left b/c she got strep, so i was hugely full and uncomfortable. hubs took her to the dr's and got her on antbx. he said there was relief after the first dose. I'm glad for that but it totally sucked that she was up until 5 am the night before i left. i got up at 7:30 and still had to drive 2 hours to g-ville to get to my class.


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## AKislandgirl

Erin, it must be so nice having your DH home! Yeah! Hope Katmai is on the mend. Have you guys been thinking about names for your new lo yet? Will you find out if you are having a boy or girl?

Starling, I really like Anoif Designs! You are clever!! Glad you are having fun at the music fest. Sounds great!

Courtney, I'm so glad that the class went well and Juniper handled you being gone so well! I'm hoping that she is better too!

We are in the midst of reorganizing the house. We'll be making our computer/guest room into more of a play room. We are going to put a single bed in here for the little girl I babysit to nap in and any random guests (couples will have to either pick straws for the floor or hit a B&B!) and move the toy shelf into here. I scored a glider at a garage sale this weekend too. I'm going to recover the cushions with some kind of funky fabric to jazz it up. Fiona's dresser is already in here too. We'll put the computer in the dining room. But what to do with all the books and files and random stuff that has accumulated. That is the hard part of living in a small space... not letting yourself get overrun with "stuff"! Wish me luck in this decluttering process. The books will be the hardest for me to part with. Come on over to our garage sale in a few weeks, I'll have lots of goodies! Maybe once its all finished I'll post pics!


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## mckittre

AK - I feel you with the small space! I was so proud of myself for reorganizing to give Katmai another 4' x 4' play space under our storage tower (of course he can play in the rest of the yurt too).
And I think Anoif designs sounds nice.

Katmai's all better - luckily it was just a 24 hr bug.

It's nice to have my husband back, but we still have houseguests, and are trying to catch and process a bunch of salmon to put up for next winter, so I feel like I have hardly had a chance to talk to him!

We aren't going to find out the sex of the new one (unless the ultrasound tech slips up next week), but we have been thinking about names. We're planning on keeping to the pattern we started with Katmai, and using a special Alaska place name. For a girl we like Lituya, and we're less sure if it's another boy. Maybe Aialik?


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## justKate

mckittre, how do you process your salmon--do you freeze it, smoke it...? It's so neat to think that Katmai will be a big brother soon!

AK, we're trying to minimize too. I just went through all of Aubs' clothes and took a ton of them to the consignment shop. They only took a few things, so it was a lot of effort for $12. So now I don't know whether I should keep it all "just in case" or keep a few things and give the rest to Goodwill.

Gillian, I don't think Royce looks like a girl at all. Not that it matters, of course.

Us, well, news here. Lots of it. Good news first: I joined something. Aubs and I are going to the Little Gym every Saturday morning at 8:15 for (sort of) gymnastics. It's a 10-19 month old class. Everyone was really nice, and all of the activity was great for Aubrey. Lots of moms, one with a new baby in a sling, so I'm optimistic.

Next, we've decided to put tubes in Aub's ears. She's just had too many ear infections, constant fluid behind the eardrum (even w/o infection), and too much pain. The ENT says the ear drums are scarring and that she probably has about 30 db of hearing loss given the fluid build up, so that might explain the fact that she doesn't speak. So that's scheduled for August 3. When they first recommended it back in December I was totally opposed, but absent any improvement for her it seems like the right choice, at this point.

Finally, we had the OT evaluation on July 15th. Aubs definitely has sensory processing issues, basically, a proprioceptivedysfunction disorderThey asked us to try the "Wilbarger Protocol"--basically brushing the body to provide sensory imput--for two weeks. We are also doing more linear swinging and activities that involve weight and pressure (emptying and pouring out sand/water, pushing heavy things, barrel rolling on the floor together). And I made her a weighted blanket for night time, which she slept under for the first time last night. I'm not sure if any of it is helping, but at least I feel like we're trying. [Nilla, if you're interested in specifics, let me know, I could go on forever. I just don't want to bore everyone!]







Mostly I'm just trying to make sure that she gets as much sensory imput as possible during the day.

Now the sort of sad thing: we've weaned. She was down to a bedtime nurse and one during the night, then last Friday, I gave her a paci at bedtime and she thought it was hilarious. Since then she's only asked twice, and I redirected, gave her the paci, and she didn't ask again or get upset. So while I'm feeling guilty and sad on one level, its a huge relief for me because she was such a violent nurser. Within 24 hours I started bleeding some, a first not-artificially-induced PP AF. Sad and sweet at the same time. They're getting so big!

Now Huz is calling...so back to real life...


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## AKislandgirl

justKate: It must feel so good to have some answers and some tools to implement for Aubrey. I hope that these things put together will help and give you guys some peace. Good job listening to your instincts in getting her evaluated! I hope the tubes in her ears help her too. No fun having ear pain so this should help. Keep us posted on how she's doing!

I just got my coop order in today (Azure Standard) with a variety of rice flours and such so I can start baking bread again. I'll be using your flour recipe Starling! Fiona's skin has completly healed since taking her off of gluten. Yeah! It took over a month for the rash to 100% go away even though we saw almost immediate improvement. I'm just so glad to have figured this out.

We were processing salmon a couple of weeks ago too! DH went gill netting for sockeye with his buddy and they got 48 fish! We have frozen fillets and a big batch of smoked salmon (my favorite!). Fiona loves it too!

I just started thinking about our trip in a couple of weeks. I realized I don't own a single pair of shorts! I think I've been in AK too long! Hopefully I can just wear skirts until I can pop into an Old Nave down there to get some summer stuff. I hope they still have summer stuff! Sheesh!


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## mckittre

justKate - glad you have some answers for Aubrey. Hope it all helps, but it must feel better to have an idea of what's going on and some things to try.

We freeze most of our salmon as fillets, and can the rest of it. I like smoked salmon too, but it's a lot of effort, and I've never quite been motivated enough to set up the whole system. Luckily salmon fillets are one of Katmai's favorite foods. 48 fish sounds like a lot! I don't think we've gotten that many yet, but we're getting close.

I need to get on the nightweaning here - my months before the next one comes are rapidly shrinking. In the middle of the night when I'm sleepy, the temptation to nurse him down rather than deal with crying is just too strong!


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## Mal85

Hey ladies! We just got in from our week-long family reunion vacation. Owyn had such a great time! All of her cousins were there, all 31 of them!! She played in the water everyday... she really preferred getting in the lake over the pool. She likes to be in control of how deep she goes.

She played hard all the time and slept hard all night. I think she's a little bored already now that we're home. She's had playmates all week long and now it's just up to me and DH. We're a little boring in comparison.

She went for a ride on the boat for the first time. She didn't like wearing the life jacket, but seemed to enjoy the ride once we got going. She fell asleep almost immediately! She did wake up before we went back and liked watching the water beside the boat and loved when it would splash her in the face.

DH and I had a nice, relaxing time as well. This was a first for a reunion like this for us. It was the first time I have seen a lot of my cousins in over a decade, so it was great to catch up with them and meet their families for the first time.

Now we're home and exhausted!! I'm wishing I would have taken off tomorrow just for recovery. I actually ended up getting a lot less sleep while on vacation than I ever do at home! I'll have to come back later and catch up on what's been going on here.


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## AKislandgirl

Welcome home Mal! Sounds like a fantastic trip! I saw some pictures you posted on FB and it looked like Owyn was having a blast!

We leave in a week an a half for a vacation and family reunion on DH's side. I think that Fiona will be a little overwhelmed with all the people so we have promised her that we will find time each day to get out of the chaos of so many people. Sometimes even just 5 people in our house has her feeling like it is too much and I really don't want her to spend the whole week feeling anxious. I do think we'll have a great time though and we are really looking forward to it. Other then his mom, noone in DH's family has even met Fiona.

Some of my favorite Fiona chatter of late...

~fake laughs and says "funny" at random things
~fiddles with the door knob. I ask her where she's going. "right there"
~when she wants to nurse on the other side "dis one OK" as she pats my boob
~She was tired the other night but wouldn't nurse to sleep. She wanted to be bounced on the yoga ball. She starts humming the song we always hum as she falls asleep. "Are you ball? Are you? night night" hums some more


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Too cute! Makenna now calls my left boob "nana" and my right "ay-ide" (means "other side"). LOL!

Mal: I too saw the pics. Loved them! The bathing suit pics are so yummy!

Kate: Sorry to hear Aubrey has sensory issues - but you knew this was likely so. I hope that the reccomendations can make things easier for you both. I can understand the sadness over weaning - but I'm also a wee bit jealous. Part of me is so done and part of me is just heartbroken over the idea of weaning - and that is usually the part that wins out. We've cut down nursing during the day but that still works out to nursing 5-7x/day!!

Nothing huge to report here. Night weaning has worked and M now sleeps through the night until almost 6! She was waking at 5 but a week ago we decided to move the nursing time to 6 so she started sleeping longer. Yay! Lots more talking but still nothing more than 1 word at a time. She sometimes can pick out colors but not always. And she knows the concept of "two" and that 9 comes after 8 and can pick out some letters. 

I'm in the 2 week wait of TTC. I forgot how annoying the waiting is!! Wish me luck ladies!!


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## starling&diesel

Good luck, Cindy!!!









Wonderful to hear of everyone's summer adventures. We have a hard time fitting anything fun in, being that it's the busy season at my partner's work. She's a chef, so the summer is hopping for her. We are carving out a couple of days to go camping for our anniversary in August. We're going to a provincial campground that has a playground and sandy beaches on a warm lake. A far cry from our backcountry forestry sites of days gone by! I'm really looking forward to it ... yay, s'mores!

I bought Esmé an amber necklace today, in hopes that it will help with her teething anguish. She's working on so many at once, I figure that the amber won't do any harm, and perhaps will do some good.

Her language is exploding, which is lots of fun. She has a lot to say about all of her current obsessions:

To every passing Harley: "Baba bodabidle?" Shakes head. "No baba bodabidle. Baba bodabidle home. Vroom, vroom." She is consumed by my partner's motorcycle and waits to hear it coming up the street at the end of the day.

And her own bike (trailer). "Esmé's bicidle? Esmé helmet? Faster mama!"

And my boobs. "Mama num-nums? Esmé have num nums?" Looks down her shirt. "Esmé no num-nums. Mama num-nums!" She's all about the "una un" (other one.)

And washing her chair, which is her chore after meals. "More dope! (soap). Clean up, clean up ... (This is part of a song we sing when we clean up). Wash, wash. So tidy. Esmé do it. All don!"

And owies. Pointing them out on EVERYONE. "Esmé owie knee. Kiss it, mama! All better."

And buses. "Hi driver! Thank you driver! Bye driver!"

And food:
dudunder/cucumber
g'nola/granola
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnick!/milk
more deese/more cheese
brawdawdi/brocoli
peanudbuddahtoad/peanut butter toast
pawdiddle/popscicle
mannnnnngo/mango

Lots of fun listening to them figure things out! DP is talking to her in French on the days that she's home with her, so she's starting to mangle French too.


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## AKislandgirl

Good Luck Cindy! Try to stay busy these next couple of weeks. The 2WW can be brutally long!

I'm so glad to hear that M is sleeping through the night! So jealous. Night weaning will begin here in Sept after we are done with our travels. I'm scared but can't wait at the same time! I'll be asking you for advise when the time comes!


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## Mal85

Sending baby vibes your way Cindy!









It's so fun to see all the words the babies are saying now. Owyn catches me off guard whenever she says something new. She won't mimic me. If I try to get her to repeat something, she looks at me like I'm crazy. But out of no where, she'll say certain things, completely unprompted.

Twinkle, twinkle little star is a new favorite for her. She does the hand motions with me. Sometimes, while she's playing, she'll start "singing". She doesn't say the words, but it's a similar tune to Twinkle, twinkle. So cute.

We had our first playgroup today and it was so fun! One of the other woman's mom has a private pool, so she invited us all over there for a swim date. Owyn and my daycare girl loved it and loved seeing some other kiddos. I wasn't sure how Owyn would do, she was kind of tired of the water after swimming everyday on vacation, but she had a blast! Next playgroup will be a the park, which should be just as fun.

A neighboring town has a fair and carnival going on this week and weekend, so we're going to take Owyn to her first carnival. She was too young to really enjoy it last year, so we didn't take her. I can't wait to take her on the carousel, I hope she likes it!

TTC can officially begin here! I was in my fertile week while we were gone and certainly didn't have enough privacy with 60-some other people around, so maybe next month!


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## mckittre

Good luck Cindy!

Wow, all that talking sounds amazing! I can't believe the complexity of grammar (I, you, is, etc...) that some of these kids are using! Or the long words!

Yay for camping trips! I can't even wrap my head around 31 cousins though. Katmai has some second cousins, but no first cousins at all, and none likely in the near future.

Katmai's language is bounding along as well, but still mostly limited to 1-2 syllable approximations and signs. Though his sentences are getting longer: "Mom read fish book!" He just recently learned most of his colors and is having a lot of fun pointing out the colors of things. "Dada in red (truck)!" "Yellow duck ride!" He also loves talking about things being "in" and "out", as well as "break" and "back" (back together, or back where it belongs). He doesn't use "I" yet, and can't say his name, but he loves to go around the house pointing out and labeling the rest of our possessions.

We're working on nightweaning here, which is going pretty well. Maybe because my milk's pretty much all dried up anyway.







He still loves his comfort nursing though, so I don't think he'll self wean before the new one gets here.


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## Vegan Princess

Drat! I got my period - such a delightful birthday gift for me!! But on the bright side, DH and I have a sitter on Saturday and are going out to a fancy dinner in San Francisco to celebrate - so now i can still enjoy wine with dinner and go out for a cocktail afterward. Nothing big planned for today but at least I get to spend it with my delightful daughter!

Starling - I love love reading about how she pronounces things! I wrote a list of funny ones in M's baby book.

Right now I adore the way M says "ernie". I make her say it all the time. I'm going to have to video her saying it to preserve. Her voice just sounds so cute!

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

That's too bad about your period coming, *Cindy*. Bummer. Maybe next month!

So, first night with the amber teething necklace? Slept through the night for the first time in her entire life! And the rash on her neck cleared up! I might have to become a convert. Wow. Coincidence? We'll never know ...

I only wish I had enjoyed the night of unbroken sleep ... I was wide awake because the decaf I had at four pm was definitely NOT decaf. Grrr.









*Mal* ... good luck with the onset of TTC! So exciting!









*mckittre* ... I can't remember, are you planning to tandem if Katmai shows interest once the little gets here?


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## Everrgreen

It's nice to hear all the updates!!

We are on vacation right now with my mom. So we're relaxing enjoying the pool, bike rides, and the playground.

I am always impressed at the language of all your little ones. Royce is so not there yet. His babbling has a lot more sounds to it now, but it is still just babbling. I feel like maybe it's time to start worrying. I think I might take him for a wbv now that he's 18 months (his last one was at 12 months) and see what the doctor thinks. He does understand a lot of language though.

Royce has worn an amber necklace for over a year now and has handled all of his teething very well. BUT, he still doesn't sleep through the night unfortunately. I was really hoping to start nightweaning at 18 months, but for the last few weeks he has totally freaked out at night if I don't nurse him. I used to be able to just rub his back. So, part of me thinks maybe he just needs to nurse at night right now, for whatever reason. But the other part of me is soooo done with nighttime nursing. Maybe nightweaning will just involve lots of crying, but I really don't know if I'm comfortable with that.

But aside from all my complaints he is a truly amazing special little boy. He has so much personality and he is sooo mischevious! One cute and funny thing he does is when he wants to nurse he points at my boobs and says "ehhh???" and looks up at me with a pout and his big blue eyes, and when I respond "do you want to nurse with mama?" he starts giggling and covers his face with his hands and looks around the room at everyone else to see if they are just as excited as he is. Oh, and another cute thing he does is he will pick a flower, bring it over to me and shove it under my nose while blowing air out of his nose making a 'sniffing' sound. He doesn't quite realize that to smell you need to suck air in









Forgot to add a big GOOD LUCK to all you TTC'ers!!


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## AKislandgirl

speaking of TTC. Remember that article a few months back about the Mayan Abdominal Massage? Well, we have a full day in Anchorage in route to Ohio for our trip. I have an appointment with a practitioner there! I'm so excited to learn more about this technique and see if it can help with my infertility issues. I'll probably do a follow up appointment in a couple of months when we will be back in Anchorage. Let's hope it does some good! I don't expect to not need meds and IUI to conceive but maybe not the highest dose and maybe not 4 tries of IUI before it works. maybe.

ETA: *Happy Birthday Cindy!*







Enjoy your night out!


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 

I am always impressed at the language of all your little ones. Royce is so not there yet. His babbling has a lot more sounds to it now, but it is still just babbling. I feel like maybe it's time to start worrying. I think I might take him for a wbv now that he's 18 months (his last one was at 12 months) and see what the doctor thinks. He does understand a lot of language though.

All of Esmé's close friends are boys (or should I say, the mamas I hang out with all have boys) and none of them are talking at all. Lots of noise, lots of consonants and vowels rumbling about, lots of intentional babble that the mamas understand, lots of pointing and bringing mama to whatever thing they want. All of the mamas say that they're starting to worry, but I figure if they're all in the same boat, then it's all okay.

All of the boys are super physical, and are all very intuitive with their bodies and their capacity to move and run and fall and climb. Esmé is not that way at all. She is physically cautious, tentative to make use of space and gross motor skill features at the park or play areas.

I wonder if there is something to the theory that toddler's apply their brainpower to certain things, and not others. Esmé's brain power is going to her vocabulary, while she clings to my leg and watches the boys apply their brainpower to navigating the jungle gym and mastering the ride-on toys.

Long and short of it, I bet Royce is right on track!


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## mckittre

I think if Katmai's still interested in nursing when the new one shows up, I'll be happy to tandem nurse them. He's such a boob guy, I expect he will. But I'm NOT going to deal with two littles who need to nurse at night, hence the nightweaning. I also won't have room for both in the bed, so Katmai will need to move to a cot on the floor.

Gillian - I think I've heard that understanding language is the most important thing. As long as they understand, speaking usually comes when they're ready. The sniffing sound is cute. Katmai uses a sniffing sound as his word for "flower" and "flour".

I feel like Katmai has a large vocabulary (well over 100 when I stopped counting), and those close to him can understand nearly all of it, but really over half his words are still sign language and sound effects. He rarely even tries words that are more than one syllable. If he didn't have the signs to build on (and to help us differentiate between the multiple meanings meanings of "boop" and "boom"), I don't think he'd be talking nearly so much.

The berries are just getting ripe here! Katmai's favorite thing in the whole world is berries, and he's been having a blast picking them. We were trying to teach him not to pick blueberries out of the pail today (just like in Blueberries for Sal, though we didn't see any bears today). I think blueberries and salmonberries have been over 50% of his diet this week.

This weekend, we're going backpacking with all our friends from town. 13 miles over ridges, two days. 10 adults, 4 kids under 18 months, and who knows how many dogs. Should be a blast!


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## Vegan Princess

McKittre: You must have some crazy stained dipes on your hands!! Blueberries and the ocassional raspberries are the only fruit M will eat (and only while we are in the grocery store!)...and now all her diapers are stained!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Hello! I had to search to page 3 to find out thread! I guess we are all busy enjoying the summer









Not much new to report here. I babysat a 2 month old baby girl (the baby who's birth I attended) on Friday. Royce was sooo interested in her. He was very gently giving her little kisses and just sat there staring at her. It was very sweet. It was quite an adventure juggling such a young baby with my still very young toddler though. The baby needed to be in my arms pretty much the whole time and Royce also wanted to be in my arms, so it was tough! But we managed!

I have been busy traveling and visiting friends for the last couple of weeks but we are now home for a while, most of August probably. So I think I may try nightweaning. He only starts his nursing frenzy after about 3 or 4 am regardless of when he goes to bed. So all I want to do is push that to 6am (for now). Shouldn't be too difficult right? He nurses a ton in those early morning hours though.


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## AKislandgirl

Good luck Gillian! I officially can't wait to night wean, but it will have to wait till next month. We leave Wednesday for a month and I know I need to wait till we are back home.

Fiona had a well baby visit on Friday. She's 18 pounds, 12 ounces and 32 inches. She's chugging along on her own little growth curve as usual! She's actually gained a pound in 2 months which I was pretty impressed with. Doc said keep her off of gluten for a year and then challenge it and see where we are. She loved playing with the instruments. I think I need to get her a Dr kit!

She still fights bed time as she's done her whole life. The other night she was trying for one more book. I said "Fiona, no more books. It's night night time. You can come have nu-nu with Mama or rock with Papa." Her reply,"Uver one?!" Me, "yes, you can have other one nu nu". Her, "OK! Uver nu-nu. Yeah!" Scurries over clapping. She acts like I was denying her "uver nu-nu" for days or something. Silly girl!


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## Vegan Princess

Wow, Fiona is thin! Makenna also had a well baby visit on Friday. 23 lbs and 31 inches. 25% for weight and 50% for height. She HATES the dr...hysterical the entire time we were there. :-(

Our birth center had their annual picnic yesterday. There were a bunch of 6 week - 3 month old babies. They were so little and squishy! Made me want one! I had a lot of fun playing at the park w/Makenna though and none of those mommies got to do that - they just sat and nursed the entire time.

Cindy


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## mckittre

We just got back from an awesome backpacking trip this weekend! 10 adults, 4 babies (from 7 months to 18 months), and 6 dogs - on a 13 mile 2-day off-trail wilderness trip with bushwhacking, a little scrambling, some being lost in the fog... It was a blast, and everyone did great. I just think it's amazing we have a group of friends who are willing to get out for this kind of thing. I love my town!

Fiona is little! I always think Katmai is small, and he's probably 21 pounds and 31 inches or so. No well baby visit - I did 15 months, and am planning to skip this one.

Gillian - nice to hear that toddlers can be sweet towards new babies. We don't have any littles around these days, but that gives me hope for my upcoming one!

We're working on nightweaning here too. which sometimes means a very long time of grabbing the sippy cup, having a drink, putting it back, laying down, sitting up, grabbing the sippy cup, etc... before sleeping.


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## Mal85

Nice to hear from everyone! Fiona is so tiny! Owyn is just over 20 lbs and about 30 inches long. She's a pretty skinny girl too!

We took her to her first carnival this weekend and she was just in awe the whole time. We rode the carousel and she loved it while she was on it, but didn't want to go back for a second ride. She stayed there with us for a while, then went to have a spa night with DH's mom while we visited the beer gardens to catch up with friends. She doesn't even miss us anymore when she stays with his parents. She was practically pushing us out the door! I love that she can't be so independent from us, but it makes me miss my sweet baby at the same time.

It's so hot here right now! We're under heat advisories for the next few days, so we're kind of stuck doing things inside. Owyn and my daycare girl have cabin fever already and it's only been one day. Any ideas for things we can do to stay entertained?? Today, we filled up the kitchen sink (one side for each of them) and put some kitchen tools in the water and just let them play and splash in the water. They loved that! I'd love to do some art projects with them, but everything I look into is suggested for older toddlers. We've tried coloring, but neither one of them have quite got the hang of it yet. They just want to eat the crayons.


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## AKislandgirl

http://www.sewliberated.typepad.com/

Check out this post about toddler art projects. Lots of fun ideas. I want that book she mentioned now!


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## youngspiritmom

Hi Mamas,

I'm relatively new to mothering.com and would love to join this thread. My little guy was born on Feb 09.







I'm loving mothering.com, it gives me so many ideas about how to be a better parent and makes me feel so connected to moms in the same boat as me!









Hope to connect with you more in the future

Kelly


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## Mal85

Welcome Kelly! We'd love to have you here!

Thanks so much for the link, Sue. There are some great ideas on there! About halfway down the page, she shows the little kitchen area they have for her son. Wow!! That just might be Owyn's Christmas this year if I can get DH motivated to get out to the garage with me and get to building! We actually have a little nook in our kitchen that holds a table and chairs. We just don't use it and have been throwing around ideas of what we could do in that nook instead of the table and chairs. That is just perfect and Owyn would go nuts over it!


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## starling&diesel

Hi Kelly ... welcome! This is a great board. Very supportive, and active too.


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## starling&diesel

Oh my goodness, that play kitchen costs $250! Yikes! Get thee to a lumberyard and arm thyself with a saw and a bucket of nails! I often think about putting together a play kitchen for our house, but then I think, "Heck, let her muck around in the real kitchen." We don't have a lot of space, so not sure that we're going to sacrifice the room. Jurie's out on the play kitchen phenomenon.
My sister is making felt food for E for Christmas, so maybe we'll paint a stovetop onto her toybox?


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## Vegan Princess

Welcome Kelly!

Makenna LOVES play kitchens. As did I when I was little. I've been dying to get one. Last week while we were buying her shoes she ran off to play with the one in the store and a lady buying shoes for her older son noticed...and said she had anold POttery Barn set in her kitchen she would love to pass on. Those go for like $500!! Only thing is, I gave her my # and e-mail last Thursday and have yet to hear from her. I sure hope she doesn't forget or change her mind!!! She also said she had a little table we could have. A table and kitchen are the 2 things I've really wanted to get.

Ok my whiny girl is demanding my attention...

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Welcome Kelly!

Yeah, I REALLY want to get a play kitchen for Fi but the cost and the space are a big issue. I would love to do it for Christmas though. We'll see. I think she'd love it!

One thing we did spring for this summer was the Learning Tower. It is a big hit! She stands at the counter every night while DH or I makes dinner. She snacks on dinner ingredients, stirs here and there, and plays with measuring cups. Sometimes I pull it up to the sink and let her have at it! I'm really glad that I got it. DH wanted a bright one so we got red. It's bright alright and wish we had just done a natural color but I had to have him on board! LOL

I love reading various blogs but sometimes their lives seem so perfect I can't stand it! LOL Only two crayons to not overwhelm, the perfect EC area, not too many books... It's inspiring and annoying at the same time. Where's the post about the dishes in the sink and the laundry piled up?! I blog too actually and often forget to write about the down sides of mothering. (although mine is mostly a "Hey family that we don't often see, look how cute Fiona is" blog) I don't want to be a hypocrite so I better post a messy kitchen picture soon!

I really need to pack! Heading off for a month tomorrow! One day in Anchorage (getting my first Mayan Abdominal Massage!), a week in Ohio with DH's fam, and then 3 weeks in Washington with my fam. Can't wait! We've been seriously lacking any sunshine this summer so we need a good dose of sun and family!


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## Mal85

I agree with you there, Sue. I think most people just blog about the good things. I checked out Courtney's blog she linked to on FB and I'm glad to see she posts about the good, the bad, and the ugly, lol! I appreciate it.

Looking at that blog does remind me that I really need to keep focused on the kind of play environment I want to create. I like Waldorf, but I've had more experience working in Montessori schools and the way Montessori works really makes sense to me and is something I want to create in the home too. It helps to be reminded of that.

We receive so many hand-me-down toys from family, it's hard to keep focused on that. I really need to de-stash the toys and get back to basics. She's bored with a lot of her toys and overwhelmed, I'm sure, by the full toy box!

Has anyone checked out Knock-Off-Wood? This woman posts tons of plans for building all these sought-after, but too expensive furniture items. Lots of kids furniture there too! A friend of mine just built the toddler daybed and said it was super easy with the help of the blog! I really want to get out to my husband's garage (he has every woodworking and carpentry tool I could imagine out there) and build a new toy storage bench so we can actually organize the things we have.


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## mckittre

I live in a one room yurt with a messy kitchen and toys strewn across the floor. Most of the time. And these aren't carefully chosen artsy toys - they're a mix of hand-me-downs from our own childhoods, from other kids in town, and random things people have given Katmai. No room for anything like a play kitchen. I'd get rid of some, but it seems like we need to rotate them frequently to keep him interested. And anything "too young" for him we'll need for the next one!

I don't have a special tower, but I do pull up a chair to the counter for Katmai to stand on while I'm cooking. He's gotten really into "helping" me dump measuring cups of stuff into a bowl, washing the greens from the garden, pretending to roll pie crust, etc...


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## merebella

Hey gals,
I used to post and read here once in a while when we were a ddc. Wondering if I can pop back in and share some life with you all!

First of all, happy 18 month birthdays to everyone! Can you believe it? Wow.

So, question for you. Is anyone doing early potty learning? Especially with a boy? He's quite interested in watching dada go peepee, so I started thinking we might capitalize on that. I read some about how potty learning used to happen much earlier than it does now. I don't know how this overlaps or coincides with EC, but we've not done that and I don't know much about it.

Anyone have thoughts or experience here? Oh, we're moving in a month or so, should I wait until after that? Does potty learning require lots of time at home? Hope everyone is having a great summer.

Meredith


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## youngspiritmom

Meredith,

I've got potty on the mind too. My little boy is interested in things related to the potty. I've been telling him the words "pee pee" and "poo poo" when we change diapers. Shortly after he started doing that, he came up to me and told me had poo poo (he did) and said pee pee (I felt his diaper and it was turning warm - he was peeing). Maybe you could introduce words if you havent. Soon I am planning to start changing all of his diapers in the bathroom, so he gets the association down. I let him sometimes come into the bathroom with me and I tell him "pee pee." He also LOVES the concept of wiping lol....he goes into the bathroom and rips off a sheet of toilet paper and wipes down his whole body head to toe then throws it in the toilet!









So I think you can look for "signs" that the kiddos are ready, like you said. I'm sort of approaching the whole potty training in little baby steps. Eventually I'm going to sit him on the potty when I change him or when he tells me he's going at that time. Hope this helped. What everyone else's thoughts?


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## Everrgreen

Welcome to the new mama's joining us!

RE potty learning - I'm not really potty learning now, but I have been introducing the idea to my ds for a while. Mostly since he turned one, but I did make some attempts at EC during the first year, so that was also an introduction. He is very aware of his pee's and poop's, he isn't talking yet but he will point to his diaper. He also knows the connection with the potty. And he is often in the bathroom with me when I go and I tell him what I'm doing and he seems to get it. It's all very laid back as I'm not concerned about actually potty learning right now

AK - I feel the same way about a lot of blogs! lol! They just annoy me








I barely make it through the normal daily stuff without even considering fun art projects, outings, and super healthy complete meals. I do like to be inspired though, but I find I get enough inspiration just from you ladies









I hope you got your packing all done and you have an awesome trip!

RE learning tower - I love the idea, but so far we have just been using a chair, Royce loves being up at the counter!

RE play kitchens - I had one as a little girl and loved it. Royce has a little one and he plays with it a bit. I don't know if I'll get him an actual one or not.

I took Royce's measurements today just for fun. He is about 33" and 25lb. His growth has really slowed, he used to be so big, but now he's more 'average'. Although I still get a lot of strangers commenting on him being a big boy


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## Nillarilla

We've been away so I'm checking in now. lots to catch up on.







to all the new mamas to the board.
Re: potty learning we have been trying to introduce it since she seems upset by peeing in her diaper and understands and tells us when she is going or needs a change. However as with anything with D she is upset by it. She doesn't like change at all. She cried learning to walk, learning to sign, learning to talk. She just cries. I really hope sitting her on it isn't traumatizing she asks to go on and then cries.

Re: play kitchen, we have a little one from ikea and honestly it is the most played with item in my house. It gets daily use from both kids. We never could decide whether or not to get one for ds and then my in laws got him one so we could stop debating. I'm glad they did. I was going to make one out an old cupboard if they hadn't.

We've had a language explosion here. She told me today "Maaaaamaaaa I'mmmmm hungggggrrrr!" translated mama I'm hungry. This was her first real sentence I think. This is so much earlier than my boy it's amazing to me. We've also had some major progress running and climbing and teething. This makes for one tired cranky girl.

Sue I hope you have a great trip. I like blogs for inspiration but yes I find them a little annoying in that they make me think if I just tried a little harder I could be that organized or clean or healthy. I'm happy being me. I don't need to feel that way.

Oh and who knew the girl who hates the bath loves the pool. She yells deady, seh, doh! translated ready set go! and then throws herself with wild abandon at whoever happens to be in front of her.


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## mckittre

Welcome new mamas!

Potty learning: Katmai talks about pee and poop quite a bit (will point to a wet diaper and say "pee!" then point to the new one and say "dry!"). He'll tell us when he's pooping sometimes, and we often notice if he doesn't, so we try to put him on the potty then. It's often a bit late. Other than that, I haven't done anything.

Language explosions are fun. Katmai is hugely into 3 word sentences these days, and especially into labeling things by color (he just learned colors, and is super excited by the concept). So he goes around saying things like "blue walk(ing) stick!" and "drink red wine!" and "Dada in vroom (car). In white vroom!" He also likes numbers, and is insisting on having two of everything (he'll repeat a lot of numbers, but one and two are the ones he actually understands). He uses a lot of signs with his words still, but I understand him, so I hardly pay attention to the difference.

Next week I leave to trek in the Arctic for a month. So much to do!


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## justKate

Hi Kelly and Meredith.

So neat to see how the little ones grow.

Re. potty learning--I was excited about it for a while, then slacked off after Aubs got her last ear infection and stopped eating. I should probably get back on it, since she's holding it in the mornings. Actually this morning she climbed out of our bed and ran into her room saying "die-doo", but then she was dry.... So maybe she was trying to tell me that she was about to go. I dunno.

Yesterday she got ventilation tubes in her ears. It sucked for me. It was hard to decide to do it, but I'm hoping that this will be the end of the ear infections. That last one was just too much. We took her in at 9, they took her from us at 9:40, and we had her back and awake within 15 minutes. The bad part was when she came out of the anesthesia, she was hysterical, and didn't stop fighting us for more than an hour. But I can understand. I'm sure it was scary for her... I really hope this helps make her more comfortable. And it should help with her speech. I hope!

That Pottery Barn play kitchen is SO CUTE. We're moving (again) in ten months, so i'm hoping to avoid any big purchases until after that. Maybe that would be something grandma and grandpa could buy. I guess it will depend on where we go and what type of space we have--right now, we've been told the options are: Kodiak AK, Alameda CA, Baltimore MD, Yorktown VA, and DC. I'm not really excited about any of the options. I love the idea of Kodiak, but I can't imagine being that far from my family (they live in DC), especially now with my favorite grandma in her 80's. I already feel very far away in Texas and i'm sure its super expensive to fly back and forth. We won't find out until winter and then move in May. Sue--any thoughts?

I don't read blogs. They just stress me out. Some days I try to "do activities" and some days Aubs just gets to do with me whatever needs to be done. As far as coloring goes, I tape paper to her highchair and give her two crayons and let her do whatever. I draw things and talk about them, and she seems to get that. We do "inside gymnastics" sometimes--I help her roll forwards and backwards; barrel rolls, roll her on a yoga ball; try to teach her to jump; try to get her to hang on my arm, stand on one foot, wheelbarrow. Mal this might be something you could do with the girls. We also blow bubbles in the bathroom. It is HOT here too.

Hmm think that's it for now! Back to work.


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: I live about 15 minutes from Alameda, in Berkeley! DH and I were actually considering moving there. It's a cute, small townish feeling place that is only 1/2 hour from San Francisco. My birth center had their picnic at a great park there this past weekend. PM me if you have any questions! I'm sorry Aubrey had to go through such a scary experience - I know how confused and groggy I feel when I come out of anesthesia and I understand what has been done to me. But thankfully, little ones don't remember this stuff. I hope it solves the problems!

McKittre: You amaze me! Treking in the artic for a month while prego! Wow!

Makenna is soooo cranky and whiny today. I think I must be the world's worst mom bc sometimes I just so feel like telling her to shut up! I don't, of course. She's down for a nap a little early - hopefully that will help!

Cindy


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## Vegan Princess

So tonight while nursing Makenna, I asked her is she loves nursing and she giggled. So I asked her if nursing was her favorite thing and she thought for a minute, popped off and told me Elmo is! LOL! I thought for sure she loved my boobs more than Elmo! I thought it was cute.  Perhaps it's a good sign that she will indeed wean - one day!

Still really cranky and tantrumy! Has been all week. Not sure if it's still from her dtap shot a week ago or what. I really hope this isn't the beginning of how things are now! The timing seemed too coincidental to the vaccine though. My friends got the dtap vax this week for themselves and said they haven't felt right since so I'm hoping that is all that is bothering her and also hoping that she feels great again soon!

Cindy


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## AllyRae

Yikes, I didn't even know there was a thread. Sorry about being MIA!! (My February 09 baby was actually the first born in the group...or one of the first born--January 14th).

Catching up:

Mia's now about 21-22 lbs (we'll find out at her wbv Monday...but she's still pretty small). For those that don't know, she was diagnosed as immunoglobulin a deficient (IGA deficient) so she's likely small because a) she's always sick (







) and b) she's always reacting to something. So far, she's gluten/dairy/egg/nut/scallop free due to severe food reactions (projectile vomiting 6-8 times after exposure to the point of bringing up bile). She's also reacted severely to her only two vaccines (1 at 2 months and 1 at 3 months) so her doctor said no more vaxes. Part of her IgA deficiency is that she can't fight respiratory and gastrointestinal illnesses, but part of it is that a lot of children with IgA deficiencies also have multiple food allergies due to the immune system not knowing how to function.

But despite all that, she's spunky and very active and loves to climb, on everything! She went from having no words at 15 months to now having about 100 words, plus some sentences. (My favorite is that she puts a little bucket on her head, runs around the house and yells "oooooooh I a ghoooooost". It's too cute!). She has absolutely NO delays which is awesome because a) she was a preemie, so we expected her to be behind and b) her biological brother has autism. her adopted sister also has developmental delays too. It's nice that she's completely neurotypical and developing on track.

Potty learning: She loves her potty chair...as a step stool.







She does sit on it, but nothing really happens. Mostly though, she uses it to reach light switches. LOL!

Early learning: We are a Montessori house, and we're homeschooling the 3 year old, so she tags along. I do blog about her "tot school" activities: http://barefootinsuburbia.wordpress.com if anyone's interested...her stuff is posted on Tuesdays. We do a lot of simple things, but it's amazing what she can do. Just today, she pulled out her cutting board, pointed to the bananas, and then when I got her one and opened it up, she put it on the cutting board and began cutting it with the little pate knife we keep near her cutting board. Little kiddos are amazing at what they already can do!

I think I'm caught up now.


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## Vegan Princess

Hi Ally!! Nice to hear from you again! I remember the excitement before you had your c-section. You were indeed the first mama from our DDC to give birth!  Sorry to hear Mia has been sick. But I'm glad she's developing normally. Love the ghost thing! Makenna loves to run around with tupperware on her head while making noises. Not sure she even knows what a ghost is though.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Hi Ally,

Sorry to hear that Mia is sick, but glad she's developing well otherwise. And she doesn't seem terribly small. Bigger than my guy, and bigger than a lot of others here as well!

Learning activities: Am I the only one who doesn't really do special activities for their kid? I mean, I play with him, of course, and read him books when he brings them to me (not always, he does this all the time). And his grandmas and dad and other family play with him too. But I let him play on his own when he's willing to. And otherwise I just kind of do stuff and try to get him to either "help" or do some other activity nearby. So he plays with his dump truck, watering can, and shovel when I'm gardening, he helps dump things in the bowl or wash greens when I'm cooking, he picks berries, etc... I really almost never have any specific activity I've planned just for him, but he seems to learn plenty and have fun anyway.


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## Mal85

Hi Ally! It's great to hear an update from you, I remember you from when we were all pregnant. I'm so excited to hear about your Montessori activities. I'm in the process of eliminating a ton of toys from my house (garage sale!). Owyn is needing more structure, she is so easily bored with just toys and books. We're converting the basement into a playroom and I'm going strictly with a Montessori atmosphere. I did some teaching in Montessori schools while I was in school, so I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on it, but I'd love any advice you have to offer. It's been a while, so I'm sure there's a lot I'm forgetting!


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## starling&diesel

Hi Ally ... Welcome back!









We're going our 18 month well baby visit tomorrow, so we'll see how big Esmé is then. I'm guessing 22-24 lbs. We'll see if I'm anywhere near right.

As for structured learning, nope. I figure we get lots of learning opportunities each day, but would like to make sure that I'm covering the bases, especially because we're likely going to homeschool, if we can swing if financially.

Right now we read lots of books, do lots of art, she 'helps' all the time with cooking and chores. I'd love to learn more about Montessori too!


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## AKislandgirl

Hi
We are on vacation visiting DH's family in Ohio right now. It's HOT! This Alaska family is not used to the heat. We are having a good time though. Fiona is doing so so. She is terrified of Grandpa and cries if he comes near or tries to talk to her. He is big and has a booming voice. Uncles are so so too. But she loved having her cousins to play with. She clicked with them right away and happily ran off to play with them.

Kate: I'm in Kodiak! We could have that playgroup after all!

No structured learning here. She helps with making dinner and likes to "help" wipe down counters and fold laundry. She's a great collector of rocks and spruce cones. That is all learning! I do believe in not cluttering our house with tons of toys and trying my best to keep the toys that we have as quality ones. We do what we can. I love aspects of both Montessori and Waldorf. Though I see us as unschoolers with waldorf tendancies. Anyway, she's just part of our day to day life for now!


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## Nillarilla

welcome back AllyRae sorry to hear about Mia's illness.
Justkate I hope that you see significant improvement with the tubes in Aubrey's ears. Thanks for the links on the Sensation disorders. I'm pretty sure both my kids have the tactile one. However they seem to be coping and we seem to have strategies to deal. If it ever seems to get worse or I can't find a coping skill that helps then I will have them assessed.
I like the montessori concepts but I am not organized enough to set it all up. I tried with my ds and I just never could do it. I think as long as my kids are with me doing what I do they are learning. I talk to them both all the time and I think they learn from that too. We read and have our routines and that's about it. I do sensory things with them and art when I can fit it in the day but otherwise they live outside and play hard.

On a bitter note our shed was broken into 3 nights ago and they stole about $3000 worth of stuff. Mostly my hubby's stuff, golf clubs, tent, tools, bike. It's really frustrating and violating. Noone woke up and the dog barked once early in the night but nothing was there. I have a security company coming tommorow to set up a system and give me piece of mind.


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## Vegan Princess

So sorry Nilla! I often worry about the same thing happening. But our shed is mostly filled w/baby clothes and baby stuff that no criminal would want. Our shed is also right by our bedroom windown and my DH's head is right next to it...so hopefully we would hear something. Scary though! Will insurance cover those things? Or do you even want to go that route?

Makenna watched me pee this morning and let me put her on her potty to try. She sat and made the pee sound w/her mouth, said "done", got up...and peed on the floor. LOL.

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

Insurance covers about half of it because of the deductible and increase in premiums. We are going to claim it because we do have to replace it anyways. Our shed is right between our bedroom window and the living room. I was sleeping in the bedroom and dh was on the couch and neither of us heard anything. It's incredibly frustrating because dh bikes to work, he's taking the kids camping this weekend, and he had a golf trip booked next week. We also have a porch to build at the end of the month. All of the essentials for these activities were taken







.

I'm trying to write my letter of intent to get into UVic right now. This has to be the hardest thing I have ever written. I'm hoping for January admission. Now that I've finally decided this is where I'm going with my career path I just want to start. Planning has never been my strong suit







.

I'm really hoping that with dh taking the kids on this trip Dd will wean. She hardly nursed at all when we were at the in laws and now she's a nursing fiend again. Partly because she was exposed to milk and is now reacting. But still it's driving me crazy. I want her to be done. I thought I would go to 2 but I know that I am done now, I just wish she was too.

As for potty learning. Dd seems a little afraid of it and can't seem to figure out how to sit on it. I think I need to get a new potty that is just hers (this one was her brother's) and maybe a little taller without the hump in the front to block the pee since she's not a boy. The way she goes to sit on it backwards I always think she's going to sit right on the hump and injure herself.


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## Everrgreen

Welcome back Ally!!! Mia was definitely our first ddc baby








And I was shocked to have my little one right after you, totally unexpected!

Nilla - Oh that really really sucks. I hope you can get everything replaced quickly! What a pain though!

What is it you are applying for at UVic?

I am going to be going back to school next September (if I get in!) As much as I would love to do midwifery I have decided on something else that will offer me a M-F 9-5 job, I think it's a better fit for me at this time in my life. The program is Public Health and Safety and will prepare me to be a public health inspector. I'm really really excited about it. I will finish in 2 years because I already have a degree. I wish I could start this year, but it's too late to apply. Oh well!

Royce is doing so many things to show that is he is 'getting' the connection between pees/poops and the potty. Yesterday one of his diaper covers came out of the laundry still stained with some poop, I put it aside to clean it again, and he picked it up and looked at the stain, then carried it to the toilet, lifted the lid, and swished the diaper in the toilet









justKate - Oh I love the gymnastics idea! I think Royce would have fun with that. Maybe we'll do that when he wakes up from his nap!

mckittre - no structured learning here either. Royce keeps himself pretty busy. And to be honest, if he's happy, I leave him alone to be happy. I don't play with him as often as I should. I always have the intention of planning activities/outings. I really need to try harder. Maybe I need to make a schedule.


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## mckittre

Leaving for the arctic today - back in a month. Wish me luck!


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## Everrgreen

mckittre - OMG!! Good luck and have fun!! What an adventure this will for your family! I'll be thinking of you guys and I can't wait to hear all about it when you get back


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
I'm trying to write my letter of intent to get into UVic right now. This has to be the hardest thing I have ever written. I'm hoping for January admission.

What are you going to take? Is it distance learning? So curious ....









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
I am going to be going back to school next September (if I get in!) The program is Public Health and Safety and will prepare me to be a public health inspector.

That's exciting!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 
Leaving for the arctic today - back in a month. Wish me luck!

Wow!







Have an AWESOME time! You inspire me constantly!

As for us, Esmé had her 18 month WBV at the doctors. She's 24 lbs! This is great considering she started out wee and was worriedly wee for soooooo long. She's finally catching up!
The doctor heard some abnormal heart sounds, so we're getting a referral to a pediatric cardiac specialist. Not just because of the flow sounds, but also because Esmé gets short of breath when she exerts herself. Not all the time, but enough that I was beginning to think she might be pre-asthmatic, if there is such a thing. Our doc assures us that's it's probably just an innocent heart murmur, but we're still worried sick of course. Keep us in your thoughts and prayers! It'll likely be a wait until we get into the specialist. Sigh.


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## Mal85

Oh, Starling, I hope everything goes well. I'm sure everything is fine, but I know I would be freaking out a little if I were in your shoes. I'll be thinking about Esme and looking forward to an update.

mckittre, have fun on another adventure!! Do you think this will be your last adventure before the new baby or will there be more?

Things here are pretty much the same. My daycare girl has suddenly become very physical which is so unusual for her. She's pinching and grabbing at Owyn in the face, scratching. We just got Owyn to a better place with her biting, but now that my daycare girl is lashing out, the biting has come back. More in defense than anything else, but still not good. Now, I'm battling both of them!

My friends due date is next Monday and I can't wait for her to have the baby! She's so calm and serene saying she wishes she could keep the baby inside and experience pregnancy for a few more months. I remember how I felt when I was that pregnant and you couldn't have paid me to keep Owyn inside any longer!! I hope she has the baby very soon, I can't wait to witness a homebirth!


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## Nillarilla

Good luck McKittre!
Starling - that's frightening for sure. Can't they do an echo or an ultrasound to check while you wait to see the specialist?
Mal I feel for you on the biting my ds did that only he was 3 and he would bite us and his sister. It's so hard to make them stop because it's an instinctive reaction. I got a video out of the library and made him watch it repeatedly about how biting hurts. I don't know if that's what did the trick but he finally stopped.

Well my hopes for a January entrance were dashed. It's a new program a double master's degree in nursing and health information science. So there's only september entrance. It is distance with one week orientation in August and then 2 weeks of lab work at UVic per semester. I'm so excited but a little bummed that I will have to wait until next year to start and I have to stay in my job for another year. I really need a change. I might try my hand at being a clinical instructor since I love preceptoring. Still really struggling with when to fit in the 3rd babe. We're throwing around the possibility of getting pg partway through the first year and trying to time it so I give birth between years. But I don't know. It feels like I have to choose career advancement or 3rd kid. I want both!


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
Starling - that's frightening for sure. Can't they do an echo or an ultrasound to check while you wait to see the specialist?

I think that's the plan ... we'll go to the cardiac clinic at BC Children's hospital and will start with an ultrasound or echo, and then will go on to see the specialist if needed. Still a wait, though.









Your program sounds great! What will it lead to?
I like the idea of fitting the third babe in between the years.


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## starling&diesel

Speaking of more babes ... we're finding ourselves thinking about another. I think we're solidly a one-and-only family, but who knows? We have those four embryos ...


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## AllyRae

Oh goodness Starling...what a tough choice! We have 3 now (2 bio and 1 adopted)...we're thinking we want to adopt again, but right now our kids are really taking all of our time. So if there's an adoption, it will be in several years.







:


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## Vegan Princess

C'mon Starling - join the TTC club w/me and Mal and Sue!!  I hope everything is A OK w/Esme!! I'll be saying a prayer!

DH and I are going to look at 3 houses tonight. It's more of a suburban area than we wanted initially but he has a cousin down the street w/two girls that Makenna loves playing with. And the houses are beautiful and AFFORDABLE and it's really only 15-20 minutes from where we are now and about 1/2 hour from San Francisco. We have been scrambling to get pre-approved for a loan today in case we like one of them...MAN is that a crazy amount of paperwork!! We'll see if we actualy want to bite the bullet and make an offer. I sort of doubt it. It would all make a nice distraction though since I'm in the dreaded 2 week wait of TTC!!

Makenna's crabbies are gone. I'm convinced she had shot side effects for over a week! :-(

We are going camping tomorrow. First time taking Makenna in a yr. I sure hope she doesn't end up un-nightweaned! Looking forward though!

Cindy


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## mamamillet

Oh how I wish we were ready for # 3...
Willa has been harder and harder to get to sleep for the past couple of weeks. But, on the brighter side she is having 6 and 7 hour strecthes of sleep. Most times she wakes , nurses and falls right back for another few hours. But sometimes she thinks it is time to get up







.

Her language is coming along although many words are still pretty hard to understand out of context.
Summer has been brutal here the last month! Heat advisories everyday. Nasty! I am ready for a cool down!


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## Vegan Princess

Mamamillet: You should come stay here for a bit. We haven't had a summer at all. It's like 60 degrees out everyday. The sun sometimes pops out around 3 in the afternoon. Blah! I guess maybe it beats sweltering heat though.

So the houses we looked at were just kinda meh. Nice houses but I guess DH and I aren't really ready to move out there. We thought maybe we were but I think actually going there again made it so much more real. I'd love to own a home but I guess I should just be happy that we live in an area that we love so much.

Going camping this afternoon. Send good sleeping vibes our way! I really hope Makenna doesn't end up un-nightweaned!

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

I hope everyone's trips are going well.
I just finished my set at work but my kids don't get back until tonight. I wish I could meet them in the middle or something. I have this ache in my chest I'm missing them so bad. 4 days is too long I've decided. 3 I can handle but not 4. Dh and I are going on a little trip to a music festival at the end of next month. I'm going to make sure that we are not gone longer than 3 days. My in laws offered to take the kids. I know they will be safe and I know my marriage needs this. I might reevaluate depending on how dd is when they get back.


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## Vegan Princess

Awww Nilla - i hope the time until they get home passes quickly.

Our camping trip was a success! DD had a ton of fun running around exploring and playing in the sand. It was a little tiring to constantly have to be running after her but DH and I took turns. B/w the campfire, cooking stoves and the road running through camp, we literally couldn't sit down for a minute. She slept way better than I feared! She slept in her pack and play until 4:30 the first night ad 6:30 the 2nd night. She was wiped out from all the playing! DH and I are looking forward to doing more camping. 

Makenna is starting to work on putting 2 words together. Like "night mommy" and a couple others....but she repeats them to herself over and over like she is practicing. It's super cute!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Glad your camping trip went well, Cindy. I really think camping is the best vacation to do with little ones. Not too many boundaries and it wears them out so much, they sleep like logs! Fun for everyone!

We had a busy weekend. We had friends come in from out of town, so they were here late everynight. Nice catching up, but I was ready for the week so I could sleep! How sad is that?!

I got a wagon for Owyn this weekend. Our friend meant to get Owyn a savings bond for her birthday and kind of forgot about it. So, he gave us the money and said to get her something fun. And she loves it!! We took it out last night for a short walk and she just laughed the whole time.

We went swimming Saturday night. We've only gone one other time since we got back from vacation a couple weeks ago. She seemed burnt out with swimming since we went everyday on a week-long vacation. She had such a blast. She was jumping in with no help. The place where we swim has a slide and I'd put her about halfway up on the slide and hold onto her hands and she'd go into the water to DH. Even with going under the water, she LOVED it! And she normally does not like going under! She also learned how to kick her legs and actually go somewhere. She usually just kind of floats around with her wings on, not really going anywhere in particular. But she was all over the place this time! So fun to watch.

My friend's due date is today and she is really starting to feel like it's coming soon! She's had a feeling the whole time the baby would come really late since she wasn't positive on her dates. But she started having some pretty painful contractions over the weekend, so hopefully I'll hear from her sometime this week! She's having a homebirth, which I've never witnessed so I'm pretty excited!


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## starling&diesel

We're back from our camping trip and it was a success too!
There are hundreds of forest fires burning here, so there is a total fire ban, so no ambient crackling or s'mores or smelling of woodsmoke when we came home. It was very sad to be camping without a fire.
Esmé had a blast! She was dirty from the moment we arrived to the moment we chucked her into the shower when we got home and she loved every minute of it. She's not as adventurous as Makenna, so we didn't have to work very hard to keep her safe, being that she likes to be close to one of us at all times and isn't much of a runner.
Can't wait for September, when we go again ... for a week!


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## Mal85

Glad your trip went well too Starling! We're thinking about going camping just for a night this weekend.

So, I'm a little weirded out I guess. My period is 6 days late and my cycles have been very consistently 35 days since about 6 months ago. 35 days is already a long cycle, so to now be on day 41 and still no period.... But, we did the deed the day before I was supposed to start, so I wouldn't think it'd be possible to be pregnant. Of course, I know I ovulate late and Owyn was conceived just a few days before I was supposed to start, so I guess anything's possible. I took two tests last night. One had a super, super faint line. But it was my friend's test from when she found out she was pregnant, just a leftover. And she said she always got that super faint line even when she wasn't pregnant, so could just be the test. The other one was definitely negative. But, if I just conceived last week, I wouldn't think it would show up yet.

Sigh... I dunno what to think about it. We haven't been real careful last month or this month, but we're not officially TTC until next month. We're planning a vacation in May next year, so we were hoping we wouldn't be due around that time. But, we'll take it if that's what comes to us.


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## Nillarilla

I felt like all was right with my world again when my kids came home.
Glad to hear the successful camping stories. I think we are going to go next weekend. We were going to build a deck but I think we are waiting until September.
Mal I hope it works out the way you want it to or at least the way it's meant to. If you are pg maybe you can bump your trip up a month.
I'm ovulating right now and I'm having a hard time thinking that we should wait but there is something holding me back I guess. I look at dd and I'm like well she'd still be in diapers and not even in preschool when the next one comes. But then I'm like so what? I'd be home fulltime to start PL'ing. I still don't know what happens with my top up if I don't decide to go back to my job. This decision shouldn't be this hard. Ah well at least when this time passes I won't be thinking about it for another month.


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## starling&diesel

*Mal* ... Wow! Possibly pregnant ... your mind must be spinning! Keep us posted.

On the subject of our littles starting to put together sentences, we've got some cute ones going on lately.

Whaddoodoin? (What're you doing?)
Mama geddid peas! (Mama get it please!)
More oh-gut/boo-berries/nnnnnnnnnnick/wadder please! (More yogurt/blueberries/milk/water please!)


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## AKislandgirl

Just read everything to catch up! Lots to read. Meant to welcome new Mama's last time I checked in. Starling, I'm sure thinking about Esmé. I hope all goes well. My nephew has a heart murmer that has healed on its own. Lets hope the same for our little Esmé!

We are now at my folks house. Fiona is loving it! She has tons of cousins and there are tons of farm animals. I wish I had captured on video when she first saw the cow! The fair is this weekend so my nieces and nephews are showing their animals. It will be lots of fun! We are buying one of the pigs at the auction and having it butchered here and bringing it to Kodiak by barge!

While at DH's family Fiona was pretty overwhelmed and clung to me the entire time. She would burst into tears if her Grandpa or Uncles came to close. Here she is doing great. She is happy to go off with the kids, climb into laps, and chat it up with everyone. I'm so glad! DH is back home so it would be hard to have 3 weeks of clingy. It has been really hot until today so she's been running around naked much of the time!

Mal: fingers crossed for you! I sure would love to be pregnant soon although I don't have the all consuming urgency I felt while TTC Fiona. I did the Mayan Massage while in Anchorage and do help that it helps. Sort of hard to get privacy while traveling and now we have 3 weeks apart. There will be time though.

gotta run...


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## Everrgreen

Hi everyone!

I actually wrote a big long reply a couple days ago, but before I hit submit Royce hit the power button and the computer turned off









So anyway,

Nice to hear everyone is enjoying their summer, lots of camping it sounds like! Royce also enjoyed his camping trip, slept well, had fun. It was A LOT of work though. I had 2 friends with me, and I love them, but they aren't the most helpful people. I did all the prep, set up, campfire lighting, and most of the cooking. Plus keeping an eye on Royce. I'm not sure if it was really worth it.

Mal - sounds exciting! fingers crossed for you!

AK - glad your big trip is going well, Royce also tends to be clingy a lot, it's exhausting!

Starling - I hope all of Esme's tests come back okay, she's in my thoughts









No sentences here! No words here either! He chatters away all day long, but it doesn't make any sense. Sometimes it sounds like he's getting close to a word.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Oooo sooo exciting! If I were you I'd be testing away like mad! But perhaps you just ovulated late. Were you stressed or sick around when you usually ovulate?

Gillian: I just read my DH's baby book - he only had a few words at this age. Totally normal. Your camping trip sounds exhausting! I was exhausted and I didn't actually have to set anything up or cook - just tend to the child. It was nice going w/other families bc they took take of most of the meals. We just brought snacks and sandwich stuff.

Nilla: I hope you can resist the urge - or just go for it and never look back! 

The phrase Makenna is working on over and over is "peas mama". Mama comes out with a different intonation than when she says it on it's own. It almost made me cry the other day. She says it over and over and it might be the sweetest thing I've ever heard!  The age is just so darn sweet and adorable!!!

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Starling, I'm sure thinking about Esmé. I hope all goes well.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
Starling - I hope all of Esme's tests come back okay, she's in my thoughts










Thanks, mamas ... I called our family doc this morning to see what the hold up is about the referral, and the clerk said that waiting this long isn't unusual. And this is just for the REFERRAL, not the actual appointment, which could be months from now.

Sigh.









The great thing about healthcare in Canada is that it's so subsidized, but the crappy part is how long it takes to get anything done. I'll let you mamas know when we find out anything. I'm fairly certain that it's a harmless murmur, but every time she coughs and gets short of breath when exerting, I can't help but worry.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
The phrase Makenna is working on over and over is "peas mama". Mama comes out with a different intonation than when she says it on it's own. It almost made me cry the other day. She says it over and over and it might be the sweetest thing I've ever heard!  The age is just so darn sweet and adorable!!!


The intonation is more than half the cuteness, isn't it? When E says "Whatchoodoin?" she gives it a sing-sing sound and emphasizes it like this: whatchoo-DOOOoo-in?" which is exactly the way that I say it. SO CUTE! Uber cuteness! And I answer, ie. "Making dinner. What are YOU doin?" And she shrugs and says, "Dunno, Mama."


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## Everrgreen

Royce also has lots of different intonations to his speaking as well. I just have no idea what he is saying! And he understands everything I say and uses hand gestures. The cutest one is if I ask him where something is, and he put his hands up like 'I don't know' and look at me all concerned while jabbering away. I do wish I could understand him though, I'm sure he's saying some pretty interesting things! He will also talk to people on the phone, chatter away with hand gestures and everything. It's pretty adorable!


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## Thursday Girl

Mal that's pretty exciting possible news.

Gillian tha tis annoying. I've had friends do that when we camp. THe i announced okay if you haven't helped do anythign can you go wash the dishes? They haven't been camping since, so maybe not the best idea or maybe it was.

Junes has started to use the potty sometimes. then afterwords she claps and dances while I sing "who's got potty power, junes has potty power!" she even pooped a couple times all by herself (and one time didn't wipe, climbed on my bed and sat down getting poo everywhere.)


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## AllyRae

My favorite Mia sentence is "what DAT for?" She asks that whenever she sees me doing something and it's so stinking cute! When I ask her what she's doing, she always said "aaah-don-know" as one big word. It cracks me up every time....she gets that from her siblings.


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## Nillarilla

My favorite sentence is eyennnnnn hunnnngreeeee! She gets that one from her brother and she always says it in this desperate growly voice.
So last night would have been the one if we were to make a babe this month and both kids were awake until after 10pm and dh had been up since 430am. I think it was the universe telling me I don't need anymore kids right now lol.


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## Mal85

Today was quite an eventful day. My friend had her baby! It was the first time I've witnessed a homebirth and it was amazing! She was so strong and handled it so well, I'm just inspired. The whole process, even the sometimes scary parts, made me want to be a doula even more. All the worries I had about not being touch-feely enough to offer physical and emotional support during labor have been put at ease.

And still no period here... I'm thinking I'll take another test this weekend.


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## starling&diesel

*Mal* ... ?


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## Everrgreen

Mal - It is pretty awesome to be there for someone like that, I'm glad everything went well









sooooo, did ya test?














:

I love hearing all the little sentences everyone's lo's are making - so cute! I just wish mine was too! I can't wait!

Sometimes Royce seems ready for the potty, but mostly he just won't go on it


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## Mal85

Sorry, I forgot to update. I got two more negatives and started my period yesterday.







I was starting to get excited too. Now, my grandma says she's praying for me to have twin boys! I don't know about all that, but a baby would be great!


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## justKate

Jeez, I've been MIA. Sounds like everyone is having fun! We had a very full weekend--my parents came down from DC last Thursday and left this morning. It was nice having more hands to change diapers and play with Aubs. Huz and I went on a little date on Saturday night. We went to a fancy cajun place, then down town for the "bat festival" where we mostly just people-watched.

Aubrey seems to have grown so much this past month. She's hardly the baby I remember.... Since we got the tubes in her ears, she's started trying to say all sorts of things, although most everything sounds the same to everyone except me. For example, Tana (her friend), banana, and Grandma are all "nana." With the Gparents in town she's been staying up super late, so we'll be working back into a routine this week. Right now she's still sleeping with us, but I'm hoping to transition her onto the crib mattress on the floor in our room soon. She just has too many limbs for us all to get a good night's sleep!

We sort of gave up on PL for a while, but hopefully we'll get back into a routine and can work on it again. There's just not enough time in our day. The other big upset is that our favorite teacher at the daycare Aubs goes to left to stay home with her kids. So there was a new teacher in the class when Huz dropped her off, and he told me "I'll let you decide what you think." So I hope she works out. I get nervous about stuff like this.

Mal, Sue, Cindy: I hope some little souls join you soon.









Starling, I'm anxious to hear that Esme is fine. It's hard waiting, I'm sure.

For me, I'm feeling pretty ambivalent about so much lately. Maybe it's the August heat here in Texas. Fertility, bleh, gardening, bleh. Potty learning, my job. Maybe I need to think about improving my diet. I don't know.

I'm not busy at work today so I think I'm going to try to catch up on some reading...parenting stuff, of course! I should have bought a tabloid as a treat. Oh well!

I hope you all have a great week. Kate


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Sorry about AF! I hope this month is your month! I was just visiting w/my friend today that has 4 month old twin boys. Seems crazy hard but she is doing brilliantly. And can I just say how jealous I am? Her two boys both put themselves to sleep in their crib (she puts them down awake) for 3 hour naps, twice a day and sleep from 7pm until 5 am! At 4 months old! Both of them! WTF? And she says she didn't let them cry it out! It took Makenna until a couple months ago to do that. She really lucked out!

Kate: So glad to hear that Aubs is doing better on her speech! Sorry you are feeling blah.

It is so hot here! We've had winter weather all summer until yesterday. Today is record heat. 98 degrees in San Francisco. I know you all deal with this all summer but what really sucks is that we don't have AC bc it's usually not so hot here. It's 9:30 and I'm still sweating and feeling ill from the heat. No worries though - supposed to be back to a high of 59 by the weekend. Makenna is enjoying her baby pool and I had the pleasure of watching her eat her first popsicle today.  BTW, those cloth swim diapers do do a good job of holding in the poop, in case any of you were wondering. She took a big poop in her wet diaper while we were in the kitchen after swimming. Unfortunately, I had no idea and carried her into her room to change her - poo got all over the changing table, all over her, all over my arm and all over my outfit! Blech! We haven't had a poosplosion like this since she was a wee one!!! LOL!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Wow, twin boys! My grandma is officially praying for me to get pregnant and when she starts praying for something, all bets are off! She say's she's praying for twin boys. I told her if that happens, I'll quit the baby sitting gig and move in with her.









I just mailed off a scholarship application hoping to get registered for a doula training course taking place in November. I so hope I get this scholarship so I can go!!


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Sorry about the BFN







I guess your body will need some time to prepare for carrying those twins, eh?









Cindy - That is totally unfair, Royce still doesn't sleep that well!

I've started packing for my big move. I'm moving about 3 hours away to be closer to friends and the school I want to apply to for next September. Royce is having fun playing with all the boxes







I still have to find someone to sublet my apartment, but hopefully that will happen soon! I am really looking forward to moving and starting my new life


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## mamamillet

I am so excited...Dp used the phrase " with the next one" blah, blah, blah. I tuned out the blahs and fixated on the fact that he assumes there will be a next one! I have been saying for the past 6 months that I wanted to think about a third..not now, but eventually. He would not engage at all. So my response was " next one?!!??" he said " you know you'd wear me down eventually". Not exactly the glowing endorsemnet but I'll take it!! Then I made his day by saying I was nowhere near ready, that I had my hands full for the time being! And I do!

DD's language is exploding...finally and it is so much fun! We have a new bedtime/nap routine that seems to work for us. I was spending over an hour to get her down cause I was doing what we had always done...nurse then hold then nurse and hold over and over and over. Well now I let her nurse till she comes off, offer the other side and then we lay down together for 10 minutes and I then give a kiss and walk out....awake or not. the first day I did have to walk her back in multiple times...like 5 I think but all in all she ws asleep within 20 minutes of me walking out. She did fuss but not an all out crying fit. I have seen her more upset when we have to leave the playground! Not at all what I did with ds but I needed her to be asleep so I could help DS with homework and getting ready for school and spending over an hour was just not working.
Hope everyone else is doing well this week! We finally have a break in 90 degree weather


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## Nillarilla

My dh has given us the go ahead to have another right away and now I'm like wait...... I...... don't..... know..... Then it turns out I might have been exposed to active tb so I have to see how that pans out. If it is actual TB then it will be at least 12 weeks of testing if I'm negative for it and 9 months of drugs if I'm positive. Ugh!!!!







During which there will be no babymaking.
I have so much fruit in my yard to pick and preserve it's daunting. I already did crabapple jelly and it didn't set so I have to uncan it and redo with pectin. Now I have plums and fall apples in my yard to pick and make into applesauce, apple butter, and plum jam and a flat of peaches to make into jam.

I might have to do the car trip next month solo. I'm thinking of buying car seat trays and a couple organizers to make my life easier.


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## justKate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
I have so much fruit in my yard to pick and preserve it's daunting. I already did crabapple jelly and it didn't set so I have to uncan it and redo with pectin. Now I have plums and fall apples in my yard to pick and make into applesauce, apple butter, and plum jam and a flat of peaches to make into jam.

Mmmm APPLE BUTTER! That's my favorite. My extended family in WV used to make it every fall and send us jars, but now that the old folks have passed they "forget" to do it. Too bad. I would pay if they asked!

Gillian, I'm excited for you. You're so strong!

Mal, I think twin boys would be wonderful! I'm torn about the size of our future family...in some ways, one child is nice because she gets so much attention, and there isn't _much_ that we want to do that we can't take her along. Here's our situation, tell me what ya'll would do:

We will move to a new state in June 2011, and we'll stay there for 4 years. At that point I'll be unemployed (and collecting unemployment, thanks to the job I have now) for up to a year (18 mos?). So I need to get a job in the new place by June 2012. Then we'll move again June 2015 (military







).

So _technically,_ it would probably be best to get pg around April/May 2010, and be unemployed while pregnant and during the babe's first months, right?
But then I also really like the idea of having that time to just focus on being home with Aubrey at 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 years old.
But starting a new job and then getting pg in the first year or so is kinda crappy, right? But if I put it off any longer than that, Aubs would be like 5 when new baby came, which isn't really what I had in mind.
And waiting just puts me further into my 30's for subsequent kiddos. Not that this is bad, but my mother was post-menopausal at 42.

What would you guys do?


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## Nillarilla

justkate if I was you I'd time it so that I was about 4 or so months pg by June 2011 when you were moving (out of the yucky 1st trimester). Then you could have almost a full year off with the new babe and some time off with just aubs and she would be about 3.5 when the next one came along which is an age gap that I like. Oh and if my apple butter turns out I'll send u some.

I'm so incredibly tired today. There is so much I should be doing but instead I am alternating between feeding the kids and finding them a new activity and vegging on the computer. I feel kind of lonely but don't really want to go out. It's a rainy day. I've got to think of something for dinner! Chili or soup I think. Time to go look in the cupboards.


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## Mal85

justKate: We make apple butter every fall with DH's family. Well, I guess I should say every other fall, our trees only do well enough every other year. This is the year for making it. I can send some to you, too!

Owyn isn't feeling well today. She's working on two teeth and just never handles it well when she's getting more than one at a time. She was awake twice through the night last night, which she never does anymore. Her nose is running like crazy and she's coughing. It doesn't help that we've had record high temps for weeks, then this week our temps plummeted down into the 70s during the day.

I also have a newborn here doing a test run for daycare, so a newborn getting to know a new place and a cranky toddler are not a good mix. Thank God for my Beco! Today has been the worst of the week. The newborn won't let me put her down, at all. I finally have her sleeping next to me, but she's in and out of it, I can't get her to fall into a good, deep sleep today at all. I just keep telling myself today is like a Friday, no daycare kiddos tomorrow!


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## Everrgreen

Just wondering if anyone has started thinking of Halloween yet?

I bought a monkey costume the other day. I'm not 100% sure that's what he'll be, but I can return it if I change my mind. It is really cute though, and he is a little monkey - I think I call him 'monkey' more than 'Royce'









The other thing I am thinking of is a little super hero. Etsy has some really cute custom capes and masks.

Pirate and vampire were two other things I thought of.

I figure this is the last year that it's totally up to me. Next year he'll have his own opinion on what to be!


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## Mal85

Owyn is going to be a pirate. I'm eye-ing =tags&includes[1]=title]this costume from Etsy.


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## Everrgreen

justKate - yes I like nillarilla's plan, if you get 18 months off. I would want at least a year with the new babe before going back to work. But it would be nice to have a few months with just Aubs as that will be a lot of new things for her.

Oh you ladies make me want to have a new baby myself! I figure if I'm still single in 5 years (through school, plus 2 years of working) I'm going to do it myself! That seems so far away though!

Mal - that costume is soooo cute!! I love it!

Here is the one I got for Royce

I think I'll probably get him the cape/mask set too, this one. If I don't use it for Halloween he'll get it for Christmas.


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## starling&diesel

Oh *Gillian* ... I LOVE the cape and mask set! How cool!
Maybe I'll find a few hours to make a set for Mé ... ah, wishful thinking.









Our good news is that Mé has gotten over her fear of the potty and has peed in it several times over the last few days. She's even excited about it! So I am very glad that we never pushed it.
She's talking in four- and five word sentences, which blows my mind constantly.
We have an appointment for an ECG next week, but will have to reschedule because I have a shift that I can't get out of. I figure we've been waiting so long, what's another couple of days. Besides, I can be honest here and admit that I don't want to know the results. Denial is a beautiful thing.








When we do go for the ECG, I'm going to bring along Bear, who doesn't normally get to leave the house. I'm hoping they'll "do" an ECG on Bear first, and then Mé will probably go along with the procedure without much protest.

*Mal* ... get on that baby-makin'!!!


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starling&diesel* 
Oh *Gillian* ... I LOVE the cape and mask set! How cool!
Maybe I'll find a few hours to make a set for Mé ... ah, wishful thinking.









Our good news is that Mé has gotten over her fear of the potty and has peed in it several times over the last few days. She's even excited about it! So I am very glad that we never pushed it.
She's talking in four- and five word sentences, which blows my mind constantly.
We have an appointment for an ECG next week, but will have to reschedule because I have a shift that I can't get out of. I figure we've been waiting so long, what's another couple of days. Besides, I can be honest here and admit that I don't want to know the results. Denial is a beautiful thing.








When we do go for the ECG, I'm going to bring along Bear, who doesn't normally get to leave the house. I'm hoping they'll "do" an ECG on Bear first, and then Mé will probably go along with the procedure without much protest.

*Mal* ... get on that baby-makin'!!!









We have officially started trying!









I hope everything goes well with the ECG, I keep thinking about her.

Owyn's language is really starting to take off. I've been telling people the last few weeks that I really thought she was going to start talking soon because she was getting soooooo frustrated when trying to communicate with me. Now, suddenly, she's copying everything I say, soaking it all up like a sponge. She loves learning new words and is adding several words a day! I kept reading about some of your babes here doing this and couldn't even imagine it with Owyn. Now, we're here and it's so cool to watch her mastering this!


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## Thursday Girl

just read throgh but no time to post. Just wanted to let you all know I am thinking of you!


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## Everrgreen

Royce's language is slowly developing, sort of... He is signing a lot more, but he gets them mixed up a lot, and a lot of them look the same. But he's trying! And he has started saying 'uh oh' which is sooooo cute. Everytime he drops something or spills something 'Uh Oh!', it's adorable!!

We are away right now on our last vacation of the summer. So we've been doing lots of swimming, hiking, and paddle boating. Lots of fun!


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## AKislandgirl

I'm home! After being away for a month it feels sooo good to be home. We got in last night. Fiona was so happy! I don't know if she was more excited about seeing Papa, her chickens, her dogs or her toys. She was an amazing traveler! I had been worried about all the flying we did but she gets an A+!

Cute costumes! Fiona was a pirate last year and will be a Fairy this year. I saw some wings for $10 dollars which I know she'll have fun with year round. We'll do the rest of the costume with stuff we have around the house.

So I did the Mayan Massage as I mentioned. My period started the other day and for the first time in my life I had a 30 day cycle! As long as I have been paying attention to it my cycles have been between 45 (while on clomid) and 75 days. I really can't believe it! I'm going to start charting now and see if I start ovulating. This really is amazing to me. We are hoping to get up to Anchorage for another appointment sometime this fall but in the mean time I'm doing the self massage technique she taught me.


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## Vegan Princess

Welcome back Sue! How exciting about your cycles! I hope the massage does the trick. How intriguing!

OMG mamas - I think we bought a house!!! The sellers are supposed to sign our offer tonight. I kind of freaking out! I wasn't totally mentally prepared bc DH and I never thought we'd find anything here that we could afford!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Congrats Cindy! That is exciting!

I just discovered that Fiona has two more molars! Her bottom two giving her a grand total of 18 teeth. These came in so easily with minimal fussing. It might explain why she has been a restless sleeper the last couple of nights but really she's just her same happy self. Sweet!

It's fun reading about all of the language development in your lo's. Fiona repeats everything we say and uses lots of sentences these days. My favorite is when she is looking for someone... Papa, are you? When we were with my family she started calling my niece Maggie, MOM! Always yelled it (much like the way her cousins yell to my sister!) It was so funny. I'm always Mama but Maggie is Mom. Mom is 4!







I wonder if it will stick for our next visit.


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## Mal85

Welcome back Sue!

Congrats on the house Cindy, how exciting! Hopefully you'll be setting it up for a new arrival soon!









Owyn is way off kilter this week for some reason. She has been waking up earlier and earlier every morning. She was awake before 7 all weekend, which is really unusual for her. Now, the last two mornings, she's been awake at 4:30! I just can't handle that! She'll go back to sleep... eventually. It's taken an hour and a half to get her back to sleep, and by then it's almost time for my alarm to go off, so it's not like I get to go back to sleep. The only thing I can think of that would be throwing her off like this is her starting to talk. It's a big milestone, so I'm wondering if her brain just can't shut down as easily right now. She's also struggling a lot with going to sleep at night. Whatever it is, I hope she gets it worked out soon. I'm tired!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Sorry about the sleep issues! We're having some too! Makenna has refused to go down for a nap all week! I stopped nursing before her nap on Tuesday but she also refused on Monday and I tried 3 times to nurse her down. 3 days she ended up napping in the car or stroller later. Yesterday no nap at all! The only good thing is she slept until 8 today and 7 yesterday instead of her normal 5. I would still prefer the nap though! I hope today isn't more of the same! Ack! Makenna's language is exploding too - turning into 3 word sentences now...so maybe that is part. Or maybe more teeth I can't see? BUt she sleeps fine at night so who knows.

So I am cutting nursing to morning and before bed. Dropping morning next week too, I think. I will probably let her keep bedtime indefinitely. I've just had enough. She seems to be taking the no daytime nursing pretty well except for the lack of naps. Not sure that is the issue though w/the naps.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

Sue, how exciting about the mayan massage working!!!

Cindy Buying a house is super exciting! Can't wait to see pictures.

June is doing well, although a little clingier than usual.

I've about had it with the males related to me. It seems to be a very tumultuous time and between my step FIL sharing/exaggerating private financial information on facebook while threatening and shaming me. My father continually sending me links to stuff he knows we disagree on. MY brother unfriending me on facebook b/c we disagree about things. I feel wiped out. ...and I really really miss my husband. he's been gone almost 2 weeks or somethign like that. He's at a wedding now (it was close to the job site he's at and this is a guy that was in our wedding party) and his phone doesn't work in the padunk a dunk town. SO I can't even talk to him or tell him what an a$$ his step dad has been ONCE AGAIN!

On the upside I am going with my friend to shop for wedding dresses on tuesday!!! Yay!

oh and my 4 1/2 year old flew out to colorado with my twin sister to visit my other two sisters. she is having a marvelous time, but it is weird without her.


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## Everrgreen

Thursday -







I'm sorry you're having such a rough time with family (I love all your fb posts/links







). Will your husband be home soon? How exciting for Josie though, I'm sure she's having a blast!

Cindy - So have you for sure bought a house yet?? How exciting!!
Royce is usually pretty good about his naps, he still nurses down for them. Bedtime is more difficult for us. I still haven't nightweaned, it's hard and I'm lazy  Last night I said no when he woke up at 12:30, that was ok he cried a little, at 4:00 I said no again, but then he was really fussy and restless so at around 4:30 he nursed and then again at 7:30 and 8:00 when we got up.

Mal - Oh, wow, I could not handle a 4:30 wake up, that's still the middle of the night as far as I'm concerned! Hopefully it's just a milestone thing!

AK - Welcome back!! That is so great that the massage is working for you - yay! When I went off the pill to ttc I had horribly long and irregular cycles (the first year off I only had 5 sporadic periods, and then after that I had 45+ day cycles), but after my pregnancy my cycles have been pretty regular and around 30 days or so. Anyway, hopefully your charting shows that you are ovulating - and the baby making can begin


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: I think we are buying a house! The sellers signed our offer and we finally got a copy of the contract. The seller's agent took 2 days to send it so we were sort of in limbo! Of course everything has to check out during inspections this coming week and the loan has to go through, etc but hopefully it will all go smoothly. Still can't believe this could really be happening! We were convinced we'd never be able to buy here! 

Thursday: Sorry about the men in your life! I hope your hubby is home soon!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Courtney, I saw all the disagreements on your FB. How stressful! Hopefully your hubby will be home soon and you can have one agreeable male around.









We have finally been sleeping better this weekend. I don't know what was causing it during the week, but she's back to waking at 7-7:30 this weekend. Knock on wood it continues.

We're going to the lake next weekend with a big group of friends. One of my friends is coming with her 22 month old. So, I'm excited Owyn will have someone to play with all weekend. Last year when we all went to the lake together, DH and I were the only ones with a baby. We stayed at a place away from the others so we could go to bed earlier and missed out on the late night fun. This year there will be 3, possibly 4 babies with us, 2 brand new!! It's so exciting to see this shift happening in our group of friends, we're more like a family now. And, this time we're staying right there with everyone so we don't have to miss out on anything!


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## AKislandgirl

*Kate:* I think I would want to be pregnant when I arrived at the new place. 2nd Tri so I had more energy. Then you would have time with just you and Aubs while you adjust to your new home before the baby came. You would also have planty of time at home with the new one before going back to work. I hope it works our for you! And who knows... maybe you'll end up in Kodiak!









*Thursday:* so sorry to hear about the men in your life. I hope your DH is home soon. I know how hard it is when my DH is away and I can't talk to him. I'm glad that you have other people who do support you.

I started daycare again today. This year I'm just watching one little girl who just turned 3. She and Fiona were thrilled to see each other after our summer break! I am so happy that Fiona has her to play with! She will be here full days this year 2-3 days a week. Should be great!

*Starling:* My thoughts and prayers and with you and Esmé. I hope all goes well with the appt this week.


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## starling&diesel

Wow ... lots of action on the board!
*Cindy* ... is the house yours yet? How exciting! I LOVE real estate. A little obessively, actually. We've owned six properties in about as many years. Gotta put some roots down. But I'm always looking!
*Thursday* ... I hope things are settling in a much nicer calm for you?
*Mal* ... I'm jealous of your lake trip! We're leaving for Ottawa for four nights to visit with DP's family. Not as wonderful at all. They all speak French, and it makes my brain ache to try and keep up.
*AK* ... welcome home! And great news that the massage is helping.

*AFU*: Like I said, we're leaving tomorrow for a trip to Ottawa. Not really excited about it. We didn't buy E a seat this time (no money) and so will have to hope that there will be one that we can use. She's a dream on the plane, so I have no reason to worry. But still, it would be so much better to have the extra space for her. It's a five hour flight each way, so not too bad.

As for E's heart appointment (thank you for checking in on us, AK) it isn't until the 16th. We have an ECG booked and a cardiology consult after. We get back on the 13th, so will have a couple of days home before we go. I'm curious to see what this trip does for E's sleep. She's been doing pretty well with nightweaning (for the second time). There is a three hour time difference, so who knows?

Much love to you all, and so sorry if I've missed anyone's news!


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: We are still doing inspections. It's an 85 yr old house so we need to know what we are getting into. We'll remove the contingency after we know and after we hopefully get a credit from the sellers to fix a few things. Found out yesterday the floor furnace it leaking so basically the house has no heat and we'd have to install central heat for like 6k. We want that refunded off our offer price. But we'll see! We should have it all figured out in time to leave for vacation next Monday! Hopefully. We are going to spend 8 days i a beach house in Charleston, SC w/DH's family. Can't wait! I hope your trip is great! And good luck w/the re-nightweaning.

Makenna *finally* went down for a nap in her crib! 1st time in 8 days! I hope the nap strike is over for good!!!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

ROYCE SLEPT THROUGH THE NIGHT!!









9:30pm - 6:30am, then he nursed and went back to sleep until 7:30am. He woke up a few times, but went back to sleep in seconds with NO EFFORT from me at all.
I have been so inconsistent with his 'nightweaning' and half the time I didn't even try! Yet, he started going until around 3-4am sort of on his own, and so I started making a real effort to not nurse before 4am (unless he really freaked out, but that didn't happen often). Going until 6:30 last night was totally on his own, and just the fact that for the first time he didn't even need any back rubs or 'shhhhhh's is awesome. Please please please let it continue!!

Cindy - I hope everything works out with your house!







And have fun in Charleston!! That is one of my favourite places to visit, I love it there! What island are you staying on? I've stayed on Isle of Palm and Edisto, loved them both! Kiawah is awesome too, I've only visited there during the day though.

Starling - I have been thinking of your little Esme as well. You have had to wait sooo long, I can't even imagine, I would be going crazy! I am sure that everything will turn out fine though. Lots of healthy vibes being sent your way









And I hope your trip goes smoothly! I was just away for a week in Quebec, surrounded with french people. Although almost everyone spoke english too, which is nice. I really wish I could speak french though, I would love to learn it, but I'm not sure how possible that is without living in a french speaking area.

So, for those of you who do daycare, how do you like it? I am thinking of doing that once I'm settled in my new city. I'm not sure how to get started though or what to expect. I imagine I could only take 2 other children, preferable 1-2 year olds. I to see if there's anything involved legally with that too, it wouldn't really be a licensed day care, more just babysitting.

Oh, Royce is up...


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 

So, for those of you who do daycare, how do you like it? I am thinking of doing that once I'm settled in my new city. I'm not sure how to get started though or what to expect. I imagine I could only take 2 other children, preferable 1-2 year olds. I to see if there's anything involved legally with that too, it wouldn't really be a licensed day care, more just babysitting.

Oh, Royce is up...

We do daycare here. I do enjoy it. I find I look forward to the end of the weekend when Owyn's playmate comes back. It's nice to have someone here for her to play with. The first year or so had it's ups and downs... more me getting restless than anything. I wasn't used to being at home so much! But we seem to have found a good rhythm now and all is going really well! I've finally got a nice routine of playtime with the kids, light housework and time out of the house.

I started by just putting my name out there, telling a few people I knew and letting them spread the word. I haven't had to advertise or anything, just word of mouth. I would definitely start small to see what you can handle. I got overwhelmed when I had too many kids and had to scale back. Now, I have a little one Owyn's age and just took on a newborn 3 days a week. I'm putting the word out that I could take another part-time kid, over the age of 2.


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## Mal85

Guess I could give an update about us, too...

Owyn is loving her new skill... talking! Everyday she has more and more language! She just exploded!! She went from zero interest in it, to weeks of tantrums and meltdowns because she couldn't communicate (which I was totally aware of and knew it meant talking was coming soon), and now she's picking up words right and left. And even getting some 2-3 word phrases going! Right now, her favorite thing to say is "Where did it go?" She enunciates every word, it's hilarious! The other night she was carrying around her baby doll, giving it kisses, and saying "Sooooo cute!" over and over again. It really was soooo cute! She just learned Mommy (finally!) and says it constantly. It's pretty heartwarming to be in the other room and hear her yelling "Mommy! Mommy! 'mere (come here) Mommy!" I love it!

We're taking Owyn to a nearby street fair tonight to check out the rides. Then, we'll be getting ready for our lake trip this weekend... so looking forward to time with friends and no stress!


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## AKislandgirl

Daycare was started with word of mouth here. I get tons of inquiries all the time. I'm not licensed either. As long as you have less then a certain # of kids you don't need to be. Here it's 4. Last year I had 3 kids in varying degrees of part time and this year 1 girl 2-3 days a week! I may end up taking one other child part time later but we are hoping financially this will be OK. This little girl I had all of last year and she and Fiona get along great. She is 3. I like having kids a bit older then Fiona because I find that they are a bit more independent. Last year at least that was more important since Fiona was so little.

My advise is to start slow. Don't take on too many kids because it is exhausting. You can always except more kids later. I also like that we can go places in the car now more regularly. Any day that I had 2 kids last year we were stuck at home since I only have room for two car seats. Also, make sure that you get a good rate. Don't undersell your services. You are providing a home environment not a daycare center. People should (and do!) pay more for that. Good luck!


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## AKislandgirl

and now an update...

Gillian, I'm so jealous about sleeping through the night! I am ready for it! We have finally gotten into a good going to bed routine and Fiona has stopped fighting it so I'm scared to change anything for a while. The last couple of nights she will roll over after nursing and just lay there until she falls asleep! I love this since this is the girl who has fought bedtime since she was born so hard. But I do want more sleep and I know it would be great for her. I just don't really know how to do this. Please send advice Mamas!

She is still working on her molars. It seems to take forever once they appear to be up all the way. One of them is just about in but the other still has gum covering about half of it. She is still handling it well though. Last night she came up to me and signed hurt and said hurt, hurt over and over. I said oh no, did you get hurt? where does it hurt? Then she patted her cheek. She had the saddest little face. It was cute and amazing to me at the same time. She understands so much and is getting better and better at communicating her needs!

Another funny Fiona thing... we were nursing in bed the other morning. She put her fingers on my boob and brought them to her mouth smacking her lips as if to pretend she was eating. She said, mmmm goob (good)! I laughed so hard!


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## Everrgreen

Thanks for the daycare tips, I'll have to look into what the laws are here in Ontario.

Royce didn't sleep through the night last night, but he only woke up twice. The first time I got him to go back to sleep without nursing, although he was pretty upset and I almost offered the boob, but then he quieted down. It was probably only a minute or two. The second time was after 4am so I just nursed him and he went back to sleep. It's slow progress, but at least it's progress!

Royce had his 18 month wbv today (he's actually 19.5 months). He is almost 27lb and is up to 33.5" It went well, the dr just said to come back and see him in a few months if he doesn't start saying some words







But I think he'll be okay.


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## Nillarilla

AK I love the 'goob'! Dee points at the boob and says "booo booo!" I say "yes those are my boobs" and she replies with her finger to her mouth "tum peas!" meaning some please. It is cute but I'm ready to be done nursing. Anyone know of any very gentle ways to encourage her to stop. I thought when she went away for those 3 days it would stop but nope. I do the don't offer don't refuse but I think at this rate she's not going to stop anytime soon.

Gillian I'm so glad you got a full night! Hopefully more to come soon.
Sleeping through is sporadic around here but she goes down without help and she goes back to sleep without help other than occassionally having to find the soother.

I have to buy a birthday gift for my cousin's boy who is 2 and for some reason I can't decide what to get. I want it to be something fun that will last a while for him. The only thing I know that he loves is shoes. I'm thinking maybe some dress up clothes in a suitcase. Any thoughts?

Starling I hope you are having a good time in ottawa. We're headed to Victoria at the end of the month.


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## Vegan Princess

Nilla: I am down to 2 nursings/day. It hasn't been nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I first put Makenna on a schedule and then started dropping a nursing every so often. Most recently we were nursing at wake up, before nap, sometimes during nap, after nap and before bed. Occasionally 1-2 more times in between. Recently we dropped the nap nursings...and all nursings except for morning and before bed. She has asked a few times but no major meltdowns that couldn't be distracted somewhat easily with going outside or reading a book. I honestly imagined much worse! I found a book called "learning to wean" written for toddlers by a LLL leader. We read that a lot too. I think when we are back from vacation I may drop the morning nursing but I do anticipate that being rough. The first thing out of her mouth in the morning is "nana" and she cries until she gets it...and cries if I take her off before she's done (even if she's fallen back asleep). I think I will probably let her nurse before bed indefinitely. But I was over it too.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

We're home! Hallelujah. Ottawa at the in-laws isn't necessarily a holiday, really. My brain hurts from processing so much French. Ouch.

Anyway, nursing. Or more to the point, stopping.

We are doing waking in the morning, nursing down for her nap, nursing to bed, and usually once more in there somewhere. I'm trying to stick to that for now. She doesn't nurse at all when I'm at work (obviously) so I know that the nursing is linked to ME rather than to her sole reliance on it for soothing/comforting.

I have to admit though, it is a handy tool. She hit her head on the plane today (quite hard!!!) and I tell you, nursing makes a great boo-boo fixer!

While at the in-laws, we did not nurse in public in their company, nor in their presence while at their house. She knew that we could nurse in our room, and so it was easier to keep to our schedule despite her likely wanting to nurse more because of being in a strange environment. I'm going to try to keep at it now that we're home.


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## Mal85

Hello ladies! We got back last night from our trip to the lake. Owyn had a great time, as always! She was bound and determined to seriously injure herself though. The first night, we had her sleeping in the pop-up on the twin bed, one side lined with pillows as a bumper to keep her from falling. She fell out of bed twice that night!! The second time, she cut her lip a little and came into bed with us, not to risk it again! The next day, DH went into the camper with her to take a nap after swimming. He put her on the bed with him thinking she wouldn't fall, and she rolled into the canvas on the side and fell through it to the ground outside. Scared the hell out of both of us! It was a good 5 foot drop to the ground and she hardly even woke up from it. She yelled out until DH got to her and picked her up and she was immediately back asleep. She didn't have any injuries though, thank God. Probably because she was so limp when she fell since she was asleep. I could harldy sleep that night afraid she was going to fall again.

So glad to be home now, I started coming down with a cold yesterday, so now I'm feeling crappy!


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## mamamillet

Not sure why but Willa nurses more now than she did 6 months ago. Sometimes when she asks I will try and offer food or drink instead, but if she really wants to nurse..we nurse. I wanted to make it through this next winter so I have no desire to stop anytime soon. I remember with DS that when he was sick I was so glad he nursed well into toddlerhood!
We are still experiencing a boom in language skills! SO much fun! Willa tells me when she pees or poops but won't go on the potty. She will sit on the potty but hasn't done anything on it for some time now--no worries!
I was able to go to a college football game this weekend with DS while sil watched Willa for 6 hours! All went well, except our team lost badly!
I have been looking for part-time work with no luck for some time...we are really broke these days! But, I am loving being home so I won't complain!


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## AKislandgirl

Welcome home from your trips!
Starling, visiting with the in-laws is exhausting without the language barrier, I can't even imagine! Is Esmé picking up any French from your DP?

Mal, my nephew fell out of the tent trailer, through the canvas one time while we were camping when he was this age. Scary indeed! I'm glad she's ok!

Nursing: I can't believe how little some of your babes are nursing. Of course, I've not done anything to discourage her but like Willa it seems Fiona is nursing more and more these days. I'm fine with it... except at night. That is where I need to make some changes. I've just been putting it off. She's been sleeping terribly this last week but last night was better. She only nurses for a minute or so and then rolls over so I'm going to set some time limits in the night where I tell her no. Wish me luck! Ugh... I'm so worried about this.

She's eating (gluten free!)pancakes right now. I smeared honey greek yogurt on them. She just took a bite and said, "mmm weally goob Mama!" God I love this kid!'

Got to get dressed.. we're off to music group this morning!


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## justKate

Eh, words. Overrated!

Aubs is _trying_ to say lots of things, but unfortunately most everything starts with a "B." Yesterday she said "bye bye daddy" when I got her out of bed and I was so surprised that she put two words together that we both nearly fell down the stairs.

It's really great that some of the babies are starting to STTN. Wonderful. We do a lot of playing dead to get Aubs to sleep--every now and then she'll get right in my face and say, "mommy?" with such concern that I have to reassure her I'm still alive, but otherwise it works pretty well.

Cindy, hope the house works out for you. Starling, keep us posted on Esme's appointment. Gotta run, work stuff....


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## Everrgreen

Royce still nurses a ton too. I am still working on the nightweaning, his sleeping through the night was just a one time thing. I have no plans to limit daytime nursing at this point though. Although when he asks to nurse I always see if it's actually food or a drink he wants instead, sometimes it is. Also if we're out somewhere I try and distract him, unless it's been a long day and he hasn't nursed in a long time.

I am not having a good day here. Royce is driving me nuts. He is whiny and crying and clinging to me and demanding my attention. And I'm feeling totally overwhelmed and crappy, and thinking there's no way I can do home daycare when I can barely function with just my one, but the only other option I have is to get an outside job and put him in daycare, which I also can't imagine doing. And I'm just feeling really sorry for myself. And now he's crying AGAIN, and so I think I'll go cry too...


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
Royce still nurses a ton too. I am still working on the nightweaning, his sleeping through the night was just a one time thing. I have no plans to limit daytime nursing at this point though. Although when he asks to nurse I always see if it's actually food or a drink he wants instead, sometimes it is. Also if we're out somewhere I try and distract him, unless it's been a long day and he hasn't nursed in a long time.

I am not having a good day here. Royce is driving me nuts. He is whiny and crying and clinging to me and demanding my attention. And I'm feeling totally overwhelmed and crappy, and thinking there's no way I can do home daycare when I can barely function with just my one, but the only other option I have is to get an outside job and put him in daycare, which I also can't imagine doing. And I'm just feeling really sorry for myself. And now he's crying AGAIN, and so I think I'll go cry too...

















We have rough days too. We even have rough days with daycare kids here and we do get through. One upside to the daycare (aside from not having to work outside of the home) is that the other kids here are often a good distractions for Owyn. Especially if we have older kids here for the day, she loves that!


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## AKislandgirl

more hugs Gillian.









We've been having a rough week here too. I've been totally drained at the end of the day and DH just doesn't understand. He is great with Fiona when she is in a good mood but leaves it to me when she's not. It is something that we've really been struggling with. ugh.

But I do find that Fiona does well with the distraction of other kids here even if she's not feeling well from teething or whatever. That and getting out of the house is how we cope. Right now she is down for a nap in her bed for the first time in a week where I don't have to be with her. Screw the dishes and the laundry... I'm going to curl up on the couch with my book.


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## starling&diesel

*Gillian* ...









*AK* ... Yes, Esmé is trucking right along in French. She was chatting with her cousin; _Stephané voiture? Avion rouge aussi? Ou est voiture, Stephané? Ou avion?_ And with her grandmaman: _Ici, grandmaman! Lune-lune chat ici! On y va! Bonjour Lune-lune, meow!_ And with her auntie: _Plus lait, s't'plais? Plus fraise? Merci!_
My partner's family was all marveling that Esmé has zero accent. Kind of interesting that at that age, there is no accent either way.








Why can't I speak it better? Argh.

We're debating between homelearning or French language schooling. My lack of speaking French affects both! So frustrating. My parter and Esmé speak French on the days they're together while I'm at work. They're going to be going to a toddler French Early Start program at her prospective school in the next few weeks to see if we like the school or not. How will I know though? It'll all be my partner's opinion of the place.

*justKate* ... I will keep you all posted! Appointment is Thursday. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried.

*Mal* ... My goodness! A weekend of tumbles! I'm glad she's got some rubber in them there bones!

*mamamillet* ... Esmé is super into nursing these days too. I'm just trying to hold the fort with our nighttime boundaries. Some nights are better than others. Some nights I give in pretty fast. I want her to nurse through the winter too ... such a great tonic!


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## AKislandgirl

Last night DH and I were talking about how various sports players insure their body parts... like their arms if they are a pitcher or whatever. I said "hey, I'm really good at nursing, maybe I should insure my boobs!" Him, "Which one? Dis one or Uv one?" Ha Ha!









Starling, it must be hard not being able to get the first had knowledge of a potential school. Maybe you can still visit and get the feel for the place and see what kind of vibe it gives you.

So know you have me rethinking the winter boot scene! The kamiks do look nice. I wonder how well Fiona could tromp around in those in snow or even just on cold days. The fact that the stonz aren't water proof I realize now won't work for us. It is really wet here and often too cold for just rubber boots. We have hand me downs for all of our other winter gear so maybe I could get a pair of those kamiks. I always buy gender neutral when I have to actually buy her something like that so we could use them on a boy too. Hmm... I'd love to hear what you other mama's are planning for winter foot wear.


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## Everrgreen

Thanks for the reassurances. I was just having a really bad day, I'm doing better









AK -







I think I should insure mine too! I have no idea how I would parent without nursing - what do you do when they hurt themselves? how do you get them to sleep? what do you do when it's been a long day and you need a moment of peace?

As for boots - we are also getting Kamiks. I went out to buy some yesterday but the store wasn't getting the shipment in until today. The guy had a pair from last year though (on clearance but too small for Royce unfortunately!) and they seem very warm and they look like they will be so easy to put on and take off.

Starling - I hope everything goes well at the appt tomorrow, I will be thinking of you guys!!


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## mckittre

Hello again everyone! A lot to catch up on after a month away. It's great to read about how everyone's little ones are doing.

Starling - good wishes for your appointment!

Katmai loved his month-long trek in the arctic wilds - picking berries, throwing rocks and sticks in various water bodies, spending a lot of time riding on my back, some time riding in the boat, and a lot of time playing in all kinds of gorgeous places. Saw musk ox and bears and seals, and rookeries with thousands of birds on cliffs. And he did well with being mobbed by adoring children in the native villages we went through (a white-blond baby really stands out). Haven't got the latest installment up yet, and only a few pictures, but you can read about the trip on my blog if you're interested.
Luckily, trekking while 5-6 months pregnant worked out pretty well for me too (except for growing out of my rainpants!). We kept the pace to 8-10 miles per day, and took a lot of breaks, and all had a great time.

And wilderness adventuring must have been good for language learning as well. Though it sounds like it's an explosion time for a lot of these little ones. Katmai's stopped signing altogether now since he talks well enough not to need it.. And he's starting to get the hang of words like "just", "soon", "and", "with", "not", etc... as well as the nouns and verbs, which makes for more interesting sentences. I keep being impressed at what he talks about these days. "Sand come off. Wipe on mom pants." or "You and Dada paddle in Noatak (river name)". With that last one, he meant that he wanted to help dad paddle - he's still got pronouns backwards, and always refers to himself as "you".

Winter boots: We only have homemade shoes for Katmai at this point. In the wilderness he's been wearing some booties that my husband made for him out of some neoprene socks - which do quite well keeping him warm and pretty dry when it's wet. For below freezing, we might use the felt boots his grandmother made him last winter (big on him then). I'm just waiting for cold enough weather to use the beautiful fur parka he got given in one of the native villages we visited!


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## starling&diesel

Thanks for the well-wishes everyone! It did the trick!

Esmé does have a significant murmur, but the cardiologist has named it innocent nonetheless. He says there is nothing to worry about right now, and to keep an eye on her and come back if we have any concerns.
That's pretty good news. Not as good as a perfect heart, but we'll take it!

He's is still concerned about her getting short of breath when she exerts herself, so we will maybe do a holter test later on. But for now, we're good!









The ECG was a nightmare ... they got the 12 stickies on, but then Esmé was scared of the leads. We'd practiced with stickers on her bear at home, and she was excited about going to the hospital to get stickers (bear came too), but had no way of practicing the leads. If I were to do it over again, I'd use yarn or something. It was great having Bear with us, so that the doc could listen to his heart, and then Esmé's, and so on.

The techs are used to kids (it's at the provincial Children's Hospital) so they did their whole loud, happy-clappy, bubble-blowing, singing songs, weeee routine, which sent my shy, reserved little girl into a total meltdown. We scrapped doing it then (left the stickers on), and went on to the cardiology consult, during which I mentioned that if the tech's toned it down to a whisper, turned down the lights, and just spoke to her calmly while I nursed her, it would be fine. Sure enough, that worked! We got a good strip, which further set the cardiologist at ease with the murmur.

Phew. Glad that is over for now.









*Mckittre* ... Welcome back, Mama! You're life is such an inspiration to me!


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## AKislandgirl

Welcome home mckittre! I'm glad that you had such an incredible trip!

Starling, I'm so glad that Esmé is doing ok! I'm glad that her murmur doesn't require any surgery at this point. I can't imagine that Fiona would do well with the hyper antics of the staff either. I'm glad you were able to give it another go with a much calmer approach.


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## alaskaberry

mckittre--I saw an article that must have been written pre-trek in the ADN about you guys. I'm glad you had so much fun! I'd love to see wild musk ox and seals.

winter boots: all we have are padraig booties at the moment. I have some rabbit fur that I'd love to make into mukluk lining for the kids, but as I doubt I'll be getting on that anytime soon, it will probably be boots from one of the big Alaskan-gear stores in town (or the thrift store, sometimes they have really cool stuff).


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## mckittre

Thanks all. The musk ox were especially cool - they let us get a good long look at them. Katmai's still talking about the trip "Saw mush-ock (musk ox)" "Throw rock in Noatak. Noatak all bye bye. Noatak far away?" But I think he's happy to be home too, playing with his trucks and seeing his grandma.

We've officially moved him out of our bed, starting when we got home last week. Now he sleeps on thermarest mats on the floor. He needs someone to lay with him to go to sleep (though now it can be dad at least a lot of the time), and if he wakes up in the night. But it's going more easily than we expected - we usually can get him down from 10PM to 8AM or so, and after the first night, he's only been waking up once or twice in that time. He doesn't ask to come in our bed at all. And most of the time my husband or I can sing him back to sleep with no nursing at all (sometimes he has to nurse a little and then will be sung to sleep). I'm pretty optimistic we might get him all the way to STTN before the new one comes in December!


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## AKislandgirl

Well night weaning is not going well here. I totally lose all resolve in the middle of the night. The good thing is that getting to sleep is going more smoothly (most nights). Fiona has fought going to bed since day 1 it seems. Now I can take her to bed and get her to sleep in there. Sometimes she's out right away and other times it takes about half an hour. She nurses a little and then rolls around for a while. Then she finally settles down and falls asleep without nursing. It's really nice. DH hasn't tried this with her so for now its just me but she's getting to bed so much earlier now.

We have a twin mattress next to our bed. Last night I decided to make an effort to have her sleep on it most of the night and that went well. I layed with her till she fell asleep and then moved over to my bed. But when she woke at 1:30 I couldn't get her to sleep with out nursing her for a couple of minutes. I probably could have held out a bit longer but its hard in the middle of the night! At least she slept there till 4:30 when she woke again and I just pulled her in with me. I would really like to eliminate that 1:30 waking though. I need to be stronger! I'll try again tonight.


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## Vegan Princess

Hi mamas,

We're back from south carolina! Had a lovely time at the beach w/my in-laws. We were on Sullivan's Island. Very quiet and family friendly.Makenna had sooo much fun playing with her cousin that is 9 months older. So cute to watch them hold hands and hug and kiss. Makenna's vocabulary ballooned while we were there too. And she just LOVED her 4.5 month old cousin and showered him with kisses. I think she'll be a good big sister - when the time comes.

So we decided to walk away from the house! Our inspections revealed about 75,000 worth of work that had to be done. Mostly big things that we couldn't really ignore. We had already pushed our budget with our offer and just didn't want to blow all our savings on a money pit! We both feel releaved right now. And I'm back to not being 100% sure we should stay in California anyway. We could easily get a house twice the size for half the cost if we decide to move back east. Plus if we had got the house, we would only be able to have 2 kids. I'm not sure I want more than that, but it feels nice to have the option open again.

Makenna is in a huge hand holding phase. Can't go to sleep without holding ym hand and wants to hold my hand while we're driving too now. It's cute. I think she's in a separation anxiety stage again!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Glad you had such a great trip. I'm sorry your house didn't work out, but it sounds like it's maybe for the best! And that is so cute about the hand holding, I love when Royce will hold my hand when we're out, it makes me feel so awesome









AK - I have the same issue with nightweaning. Some nights I'm good and I remember that we're trying to nightwean, others I just pull out my boob in a sleepy fog







He is so cranky during his night wakings though, he kicks and squirms and screams/cries. It isn't pleasant at all and he's too strong for me to hold.

mckittre - Welcome back!! I read part of your blog, it sounds like you had an awesome adventure!

Starling - Oh I'm so glad Esme's tests went well, what a relief for you!









Back to the boot discussion - I may get Royce some Sorel boots. I was at a huge children's consignment store today and they had a pair that I think fit him (it's so hard to tell with boots!), they had some Kamiks but none in his size. They are only $10 too which is awesome. So I'm going to go back tomorrow and get them, I think (I'm sooo indecisive!)


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## Everrgreen

I bought the boots







And 2 pairs of pants, a shirt, and a monkey backpack/harness (which I know are sometimes frowned upon, but I really think Royce will like it). And all for under $30!! This consignment store is great!


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## AKislandgirl

sweet Gillian! I love a good deal!









Cindy, I'm glad that you feel good about your decision on the house. It sounds like it was the right thing to do, especially since that opens up some opportunity for you guys to think about moving out of state. I hope you don't mind my asking, but why would the house lock you into having only 2 kids?


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: I don't mind you asking.  We would be limited to 2 kids bc of the high cost of living here. I would need to go back to work at some point - right now we are planning for that when our youngest starts school. With 3, that would get pushed out too far. We are already on such a tight budget, it's going to be really tough to live here and pay for activities, etc for an older child and with 3 that would be extra tough. Plus the house only had 3 bedrooms. I know you could fit 3 kids in a house that size but mostly it's a money issue here.

Gillian: Yay! I totally want a leash. LOL. Running after makenna in a crowded airport sucked! I vowed I would buy one if we fly again soon.

So I dropped the wake up nursing this morning! She cried for a couple minutes until we got up...but then she gave me a super long and lovely hug and we got up and went about our morning and she hasn't asked once! It might be easier than I anticipated! So I guess we are down to nursing before bed only. Wow! I have mixxed emotions about this but seeing that she is handling it way better than I thought she would tells me she is more ready than I thought.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Cindy, I'm sorry the house didn't work out, but glad that you're at peace with the decision. And so glad to hear the weaning is going better than you expected! I still miss nursing even though we've been done for a good 5 months now. Ever since she stopped nursing, I've been badly wanting to have another baby. We're in the waiting period right now and I'm soooo anxious to see if I start my period.

Gillian, I've been so tempted to get one of those leashes! I always frowned upon them when I've seen other people use them, but Owyn wants to get down and walk everywhere we go now. And a lot times she refuses to hold my hand.... I think she would like the leash!

Things are going well here. Owyn is working on her last eye tooth, her final tooth until her 2 year molars! So, bedtime has been restless the last couple of nights. Her new thing is to get a pillow and blanket and lay on the couch next to me at nap/bed time. She does it totally on her own, so I let her! She's turning into such a big girl already!!

So, another decision making time here... do these big decisions ever end?! After I graduated college, I put my name in for a job with Department of Social Services. It's usually super hard to get a job with them and I figured it'd be years before I heard anything, if I ever heard anything. I just did it because all my professors said it was a good idea. Well, I got a notice in the mail from them wanting to know if I want to be considered for a job as a children's service worker. Starting pay would more than double our current income... so that's really tempting. I went ahead and sent the form back with my college transcripts, figuring it can't hurt to see where it leads. Most likely, I won't even get called for an interview... but we'll see. I'm not sure I'd take the job if it was offered too me, a lot of pros and cons to weigh, especially considering the fact we just started TTC again...


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## mckittre

Cindy - glad you made the right decision for your family. I think one of the keys to happiness is not letting yourself get trapped in a lifestyle you can't afford.

No leashes here. I think I'm lucky to have an unusually compliant toddler (at least so far). He likes to walk with me, but likes to hold my hand and will almost always follow directions.

I limit Katmai's nursing mostly by cutting him off after a minute or two each time he asks, and by not nursing to sleep. It's really not as comfy nursing dry while pregnant, and I know he's not getting anything from me. I'd consider weaning altogether, but I know I'm getting milk back soon, and will be nursing the new one as well, so I might as well keep going.

I love all the adorable things Katmai says now that he talks more. Yesterday we were looking at a kitten picture book, which had a picture of a cat playing with a goat, and one of a cat playing with a guinea pig. Looking at the goat: "Kitty play goat" "That nice goat" Looking at the guinea pig with a confused expression: "That uh-oh goat."


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## Thursday Girl

Okay I have read about 40 posts back but know I am missing some from the last time i visited. Things have been crazy busy. adjusting to school, taking on all kinds of responsibilities, husbands gone again so I have all his stuff too. I felt like i was drowning or like i would explode with everything but I am starting to learn to balance this new load. I have decided not to apply for midwifery school with hopes of going in January. I'd have to leave my kids in town with a friend for 3 days, 2 nights. Hubs can't do it b/c he's traveling all the time. I have made a new rule, no more than a week then he has to come home. lol. it can't start until he finishes this 2 weeks away.

I loved all your travel stories, even the booboos. my kids would be so jealous if they knew about your camper.

starling- I'm glad the murmur is not dangerous.

I am thinking about night weaning, it is starting to get super annoying, she's waking up more than usual. I guess probably b/c something is going on. That's generally what's behind it. She has stopped with the potty learning. She is talking occasionally. never really one word but sentences or a string of excited sounds. when she is really excited she sort of does this dance-walk. I really need to try and get a video of it.

I love all the "uv one" and this "weally goob" just so cute.


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## justKate

I was thinking about making a leash for Aubs the other day. I cut the belt off of her changing pad--I never used it--and was thinking that I could use the buckle and some leftover fabric to make her a little harness... Mostly I was thinking that it would be good for taking walks, because she doesn't listen to me at all, and the cars move pretty quickly on our street. And the zoo, so that she doesn't have to be held or in her stroller constantly. She refuses to hold hands or be worn when there's lots going on...and it's just too hot anyway. Now I sound like I'm justifying it.







I guess I am, to myself. Never thought I'd use one, but I also never thought I'd have such a, ah, _spirited_ child!


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## starling&diesel

*leashes* ... I'm of the "there but for the grace of God go I" school of thought on the matter. I happen to have an incredible gluey child who never strays more than four feet away from either myself or any of her loved ones who might be out with her. We go to the park and she leans against my leg and eats her snack and watches the kids. On the street, she lags behind me, dragging her fingers on the dirty storefronts and giving a running commentary to her Bear in her sling.

She does not need a leash of any kind. She needs a catapult! Honestly, I try to gently encourage her away from me! Go play! Go explore! She says, and I kid you not, "No thanks mama. Mé Mé stay right here with you."

HOWEVER ... I have a few very dear friends, every one of them AP, whose children pose a safety hazard to themselves dozens of times a day by bolting away from their mamas/papas while out. Haven't seen a leash among them yet, but wouldn't be surprised to. They do use their strollers to the same effect though, as safety restraint. The kids want to walk, and will ask to, but the mamas will say no. I wonder if their kids weren't bolters, if they'd be more into letting them walk?


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Thursday Girl* 
Things have been crazy busy. adjusting to school, taking on all kinds of responsibilities, husbands gone again so I have all his stuff too. I felt like i was drowning or like i would explode with everything but I am starting to learn to balance this new load. I have decided not to apply for midwifery school with hopes of going in January. I'd have to leave my kids in town with a friend for 3 days, 2 nights. Hubs can't do it b/c he's traveling all the time. I have made a new rule, no more than a week then he has to come home. lol. it can't start until he finishes this 2 weeks away.

What a lot on your plate! I'm glad to hear that you're balancing all the new additions to your load. You rock!









What does your husband do that takes him away so often for so long?


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: Funny you pose the question about the possibility of parents letting their kids walk more if they didn't bolt. My kid runs away as fast as possible, laughing her head off, every time I let her down somewhere. She does it bc she knows it annoys me. Giving chase or telling her to come back only makes her run faster and laugh harder. Today we went on a meetup at a redwood grove. It had a paved path and I let Makenna walk. I actually did think of you while we were walking and about how Esme loves to explore the nature around her (rather than socialize). I tried to channel you for a bit. LOL. But after a millon times of running back the same way we came or going off path (and into a patch of possible poison oak!) I'd had enough and strapped her into the stroller. Needless to say, she was not happy. I don't let her walk as much as maybe I should bc she either runs off into crowds, etc. or refuses to go the right direction. I just don't think she's quite ready for the responsibility unless the area is completely safe. And the last couple meetups I've gone to that weren't in fenced in tot lots haven't been enoyable for me bc I spent my time running after Makenna instead of being able to have a conversation.

TGIF everyone! We stopped at a horse stable on the way to our walk this morning - Makenna LOVED seeing the horses up close and personal. She says they are her favorite animal and later today she told me "love horse" and did the "i love you" sign while saying it. 

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

My dh is doing solar water cooling and/or heating. He says during the winter he will be home more often which would make sense since a lot of the jobs he's doing are places where it snows.

All of my kids have been occasional runners. They don't bolt every time but they like to go there own direction. It's kind of nice now b/c I can send my oldest, Jewel, off to grab June...although sometimes she does this thing were she pretends like she's trying to catch the baby but really she's trying to get the baby to run more. She thinks I can't tell the difference. I generally let her walk, but a lot of times we are at places that it doesn't matter that much. I try to stick to those situations for the most part. I think it then helps when we are somewhere and I really need her to stay close b/c she is more likely to listen to me. When we are at my older girls school cleaning (I clean the school grounds every day prior to a school day) I just let her wander as much as she wants. So she gets the exploration she craves. If she WON'T listen and stay I usually put her in the pouch and sometimes i have to carry her while she thrashes and wails. Fun times.

I did ALMOST get a leash for my daughter Josephine it was so frustrating with her, but in the end I just couldn't bring myself to leash my child even with the cute monkey backpack.


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## Mal85

Ahhh! I am so sick of the No word! Owyn has learned how to use it and uses it well. Everything I ask her gets a very snotty sounding "No no!!" Even when she doesn't mean it, she just likes saying it and says it really mean! Where in the world did this come from??


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## AKislandgirl

No bolting here. Fiona sticks pretty close to me. We also aren't really in places much where she can't explore. If there are many people around she sticks quite close. She too is pretty shy. A friend and her kids (that I used to babysit last year) came over for a play date the other day. It was a huge thing that Fiona crawled onto my friends lap to read a story. That never happens. She'd rather be with Mama or Papa or a select few kids.

She's a little nature girl too.







Anytime she's grumpy (like this AM) we just get her out in the woods and all is well in her world again. She's a collector of rocks, sticks and spruce cones. She's also a champion puddle stomper! All of these things keep her so occupied she feels no need to run off. It's really quite nice!

Starling I remember you mentioned this before too. This quiet personality of hers has me really thinking about school environments and what would be good for my introverted girl. I bring her to one group thing each week. It's a music class. I have to be sure to be there early so that we can walk into a quiet room and Fiona can watch as the other kids and parents come in. To arrive late and walk into a bustling room full of kids isn't her thing at all! I wonder how long such personality traits persist and how to gently build her confidence. She does enjoy it while we are there if I set thing up right.


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Starling I remember you mentioned this before too. This quiet personality of hers has me really thinking about school environments and what would be good for my introverted girl.

I know it's way early, but I truly wonder about this too. Esmé is very organized and orderly, so I'm not sure that a free-style alternative school (what I would've loved!!!) would work for her either. I actually looked into the private Montessori, IB, and Waldorf Schools in the last week or so, and the tuition runs about $13000 for a school year.

Who knows what we'll end up doing. Like I've said before, either the French school, or homeschooling. Leaning more towards homeschooling, so long as we could arrange our work schedules around it. Esmé is already quite into her alphabet and knows her shapes and colours already, so will likely be quite comfortable with her letters and numbers by the time school age comes around. So whatever learning environment she ends up in, I just don't want her to be bored. And please don't get the impression that I'm one of those force-the-flashcard-read-by-three mamas ... it's just her nature. She's got a busy internal world.

Esmé just started a six-week art class with my partner. They do it on Wednesday mornings. Again, Mé isn't thrilled at the thought of being in a group of unpredictable toddlers, but I hope that by doing a more structured class now and then will encourage her to get more comfortable in groups.

What are you thinking, *AK*? Do you have many options?


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
Starling: Funny you pose the question about the possibility of parents letting their kids walk more if they didn't bolt. My kid runs away as fast as possible, laughing her head off, every time I let her down somewhere.

Awesome adventurous little monkey! Now, if you added an infant to that mix (still working on that, Cindy?) I'd be the first one in line to get a leash!


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## AKislandgirl

No we have zero options. Well that isn't really true. The preschools here are of the religious variety and are also of the chaotic, un ordered preschool variety. Neither of those are options for us. I grew up Catholic and attended Catholic school K-12 but I don't need religion pushed on my preschooler. Both of these do! One is Baptist and the other Lutheran. If we stay here then she won't do preschool and as we enter the primary years we will homeschool.

There is talk of a group of parents trying to start a co-op preschool in the next year. I may be interested in that. Again, it would depend on the setting, number of kids, philosophy etc...

If we leave, which we hope to in about 2 years, we hope to find something that will work for her. I like aspects of Montessori and Waldorf both. Of course there are things I don't like about both too. It's hard! A lot will probably depend on where we end up moving. Homeschooling sounds more and more appealing. And yes, I know its early but I think its important to think about early. Maybe Esmé and Fiona can be homeschooling pen pals!


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Maybe Esmé and Fiona can be homeschooling pen pals!

Totally!







I call roadtrip! (After all, they'd have to meet eventually!)


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## Vegan Princess

Ack - Starling - i'm hoping Makenna will get the running away out of her system by the time a new one comes along. Otherwise I'll just have to strap the new one on tight and keep on runnin! Yep, still working on a second, with little success. My luteal phase is still super short. My midwife and OB both ordered hormone testing. I had my annual exam yesterday and the doctor was very fast to reccomend clomid! I know I don't need that. I do think I might try progesterone supplements next month if my luteal phase is still short this month. She said she'd prescribe some. I can't take it this month bc we are testing my progesterone levels and need to get true reading. I am hoping that since we are down to 1 nursing/day now, my body will sort itself out. I know it's the nursing that is messing things up. I think I'd rather wean than take clomid. But I would prefer to let Makenna keep this 1 nursing/day until she wants to stop.

DH and I visited a friend and their 3 week old baby today! She was 2 weeks early like Makenna and weighed the same as her at birth - 5 lbs 12 oz. So tiny! And she is colicy and wails from 12am -6am. Their stories made me wonder why I am in such a hurry to have another!

Cindy


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## Mal85

I love hearing about your shy girls. Owyn takes a bit to warm up to people, but after the first few minutes, she's usually her normal self... loud and outgoing!

I've thought a lot about the school thing as well. We have a few different options here. I'm really leaning towards the Montessori school at least for preschool. But I cannot decide for the school years, I'm glad I'm thinking about it early because it's a really hard decision! With her personality, I think she would feel comfortable in the public school, but I am _really_ unhappy with the public schools in this country right now, so I will just have to see where they are by the time she's old enough to enter. The Montessori school goes to 8th grade, but they just added the grades 2 years ago and it's still a very small program. If she was an introvert, I think it'd be great for her, but she's more of a social butterfly, so I don't know. There's also a Lutheran school that goes to 8th grade, but it's also very low on numbers...

I found out yesterday my SIL is pregnant! This will be their 4th. I called DH (who is on a camping trip this weekend) and said "She's pregnant and I'm not!" He just laughed and said "Well, we need to fix that!" I'm really hoping to be pregnant by Christmas...

I took Owyn to a bridal shower yesterday, then went with my sister to the new American Girl store in the area. Wow, I certainly felt like I was _that_ mom all day with the screaming toddler. She didn't want to be in her stroller, didn't want me to hold her, didn't want me to even hold her hand. She just wanted to run away from me! It was like she didn't want me to be able to see her, she'd run around the corner and hide from me! I really needed that leash!


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## mckittre

Katmai's kind of shy too, especially with kids his own age. Goes along with the not bolting, I guess. He doesn't mind crowds though (maybe because he's accompanied us while we give talks enough times), and doesn't take too long to warm up to adults. But we were at a party yesterday and there was another little boy his age (with 2 older sisters) that kept trying to tackle him. He definitely wanted nothing to do with that! I'm working on getting him some more time with some less crazy toddlers.

As far as school, here it's pretty much send your kid to "the school" or don't. Preschool is headstart, the school is a public K-12 with around 80 kids total, so quite small. I'm inclined to do it as long as he does OK there - pretty much all the other kids in town will be there, and in a school that small, one more kid (or two when my next one comes along) is a significant part of the community and a significant impact on the funding. And it would be nice to have more time to work at home. I'm not the type that goes out of my way to do "projects" with him - if he's happily playing, I just ignore him.









Does anyone else's kid get into clothing fights? He doesn't seem to care which clothes, but often insists on not changing, adding, or removing any. Several days lately he's been wandering around outside in just socks. Yesterday he insisted on no pants either. Other times he won't take his coat off. I haven't bothered to fight him, but he looks pretty funny when we go out sometimes!


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## Nillarilla

McKittre we have the clothing fights here but when it's cold and I need to go out I have to have the fight. I usually try and sing her song "Old MacDonald" so she's distracted.
AK and Starling my son was a very reserved shy child until he was about 2.75 and then he suddenly blossomed into this very articulate, confident child. As long as he is well prepared for whatever he is going to he just goes and does his thing and doesn't need me. In new situations and new places he's still hesitant but anywhere he knows he's very confident in. Not saying your girls aren't going to stay shy but I think sometimes the adventurousness and defiance lol comes out when they hit 3. My boy is still very busy internally and is incredibly imaginative and can amuse himself for hours but now he seems to also need social stimulation and he does really well in an organized traditional preschool environment.


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## Everrgreen

I've used the leash a couple of times now, it does feel sort of weird to have him on a leash. I keep thinking everyone around is judging me







But, Royce thinks it's great. He looks so proud of himself wearing his little monkey on his back, I think for him it's like when I wear him on my back. And he doesn't seem to realize I have a hold of the monkey's tail. It's nice to be able to let him walk and feel safe about it.

Royce's personality is sort of a mix. At home he's a bit of a nut, busy, 'talking' (babbling) constantly, getting into everything. If we're out in adult public places (shopping, etc.) he's pretty much the same, hence the need for the lease. BUT, if there are other kids around (playgroup, etc.) he won't leave my side and becomes very shy. He may eventually warm up to the other kids, I think he is getting better over time. He warms up a lot quicker to kids that are older than him. He'll watch them intently and then start to follow them and try and copy them.

As for school, Royce will probably be in public school. I love the idea of a montessori or waldorf education, but I'm not sure if it's financially possible. I do have a lot of concerns about public school though. It's the homework that bothers me. The idea of kids as young as grade 1 having homework is crazy. I feel like after school time should be for bonding with your family or enjoying activities that HE chooses to do. But we'll see what happens. I've got a few years.

mckittre - the only clothing thing Royce has is with socks, he always takes them off. I think I'm going to get him some robeez for indors so he'll keep his feet warm this winter.

mal - I hope things work out with the job, it does sound like a good opportunity! Too bad the mat leave in the US is so terrible, they would only have to hold the job for 6 weeks, right? Or am I mistaken on that? Here in Canada you would get 1 year - makes it a lot easier to start a new job even while ttc.


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 

mal - I hope things work out with the job, it does sound like a good opportunity! Too bad the mat leave in the US is so terrible, they would only have to hold the job for 6 weeks, right? Or am I mistaken on that? Here in Canada you would get 1 year - makes it a lot easier to start a new job even while ttc.

Yeah, typical maternity leave is 6 weeks. A lot of places are offering a little longer now. The little one I baby sit, her mom was able to take off 12 weeks paid. We also have FMLA (family medical leave act) that says I could take off up to twelve weeks, but they only have to pay for the 6 weeks of maternity leave, and likely that's not the whole income. And... most of that only takes effect after you have worked somewhere for a year. So, if I got pregnant now and had the baby before my first year was up, they don't have to offer anything. I'd have to take all my vacation and sick time to get any time off. My SIL ran into this problem with her most recent baby and only took off 2 weeks!

I took Owyn to a nearby pumpkin patch and petting zoo yesterday and she has soooo much fun! After such a rough weekend with wedding showers and shopping (so not her thing!) it was great to take her to a place where she could just wander, run, and do her thing all she wanted! She fed goats and made the turkeys gobble at her. She picked out her own pumpkin and took a ride on the train they had there. Then, we had a picnic lunch and she played to her heart's content on their awesome playground. We need more days like that!


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## AKislandgirl

Mal, that sounds like a magical day! I love days like that. I wish we had a pumpkin patch. The 4-H kids here barge a butch of pumpkins up each year though. We go to that to pick out our pumpkin at the fairgrounds. They also have a few games that Fiona was too little for before but might enjoy this year. I love stuff like that! I hope someday we can go to a full on harvest festival!

Remember when I was asking about boots? I pulled out a bin of hand me downs in the next size up and found the perfect pair in there for winter! Yeah! I love hand me downs. So glad to not have to spend the money on that!

Here is a fun recipe to share that we made the other day. We had so much fun with it!
1 cup of corn starch, 1/2 cup of water, food coloring optional
mix it up with your hands. you may need a bit more corn starch
this concoction is crazy because its part liquid and part solid. We had a ton of fun playing with it!


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## Vegan Princess

Thanks for the tip Sue! We did that once at Makenna's facilitated playgroup. She didn't like the way it felt. Today at that playgroup, they let the kids paint cardboard with water. Just dip the brushes and sponges in water. They can also paint the walls with water. Makenna loved it. I'm going to have to do that one at home.

Can I just say - I am SO happy that we moved Makenna's bedtime later! We pushed it to 8 instead of 7. I am enjoying eating dinner with her. But we are actually getting to sleep in until a human hour. Today she slept until 7:30!









Cindy


----------



## mckittre

Now I just need Katmai to go to bed at a sane hour! The past few nights he's been up until 11! (and still getting up 8 ish)

The pumpkin patch sounds fun. Not that pumpkins will really grow here. But Katmai helped us dig the potatoes yesterday, which he enjoyed. The first time he's really been interested in eating potatoes - he almost couldn't wait until they were cooked!


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## Everrgreen

Helllllloooooo!!!!! Where is everybody??? It's been DAYS since anyone has posted









Mal - Have you made any big decisions about your job? I'm sure it must be tough!
I can't wait to take Royce to get a pumpkin, it sounds like you had a pretty cool place to go to!

AK - I love hand-me-downs, that's where most of Royce's wardrobe for the winter came from. But I had to get boots on my own, so I was glad the consignment store had some!
And thanks for sharing the recipe, I want to try that! I think I already packed the cornstarch though so it will have to wait until we get moved.

Royce will happily stay up late, sometimes it results in sleeping in but not always. He is usually up around 7:30-8. His nap is getting shorter and shorter, from 2 hours down to 1. On days when he skips his nap for whatever reason he will actually go to bed at a normal time, like 8. But often I'm lucky to get him asleep by 9. Did you know that there are toddlers who take 3 hour naps??? I heard this at a playgroup recently, I don't want to believe it's true. A 3 hour nap AND a reasonable bedtime









Oh, and I'm totally failing at nightweaning. I have been regularly nursing no matter what time it is at night.


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## Mal85

No major decisions yet. I'm still waiting to see if I get called for an interview, and I'll just see where we go from there.

Owyn's naps are typically 1.5-2 hours long. 2 hours is great and means she'll be ready for bed around 8. 1.5 hours means she'll be fussier by 7 and going to sleep by 7:30. She took a 3.5 hour nap one day last week and it was hell getting her to bed at a reasonable time that night!

I went to a good friend's bachelorette party last night. It was really great to have an adult night out without having to chase after a toddler all night, I almost didn't know what to do with myself! DH even let me sleep as late as I wanted this morning, it was wonderful!! Next weekend, Owyn is staying the night with my IL's while we go visit our friends a few hours away. This will be the second time she has stayed all night with them, but the first time we've left town. I'm hoping to have a good time, but sure I'll be a nervous wreck the whole time!


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## mckittre

Mal - I don't think I've ever been at a party without Katmai - I don't think I'd know what to do with myself! That said, the only adult-limited activity in town is a smoky bar - all parties are all ages.

We've given up on bedtimes. We go through the routine, my husband tries to take him to bed, and if it doesn't stick, we just wait until he finally asks to go. Even if it is 11PM. We can't spend all evening getting him to sleep anymore. And he's probably only 2 for 7 at napping at all this past week.

Winter is here. At least winter is a couple hundred feet above us. Went hiking with a friend today in the one non-pouring rain day we've had in a week. Ended up walking through nearly foot-deep snow, sunny, below-freezing, and windy. Beautiful, but we didn't prepare the toddlers for winter, so they couldn't get down to play...

And along with winter coming, I only have a little over 10 weeks until Katmai's little brother or sister shows up. Eeek!


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## AKislandgirl

Winter! We have termination dust in the mountains here. The skiers are getting antsy! But here at sea level we have had some really beautiful fall weather. Lots of wind lately! I love it. Of course today is rainy... I hope that we get a "real" winter this year with snow and not just cold windy rain. We shall see!









I've been fighting a cold and feel like poo. Fiona had a milder version of it and is already back to her old self. I made DH come home from work early the other day because she was bouncing off of the walls and I just didn't have the energy to take her out. They went to the beach and then warmed up at the coffee shop with coffee (him) and a cup of whipped cream (her). It's her new favorite treat when we go to the coffee shop. I figure she is such a skinny thing it's good for her!

I'm also failing at night weaning. I pretty much gave up. Some nights she is nursing soooo much! I don't get it. I've told myself that once I'm feeling better and can deal with less sleep at night I'm going to go at it with new gusto. At 20 months she doesn't need to nurse all night long! If it was only once or twice I wouldn't bother to change anything but it's not. So even if she fusses I'm going to tell her no. I'm still going to be there giving her comfort... just not with my boob. This is hard. Those of you who have done it, tell me it will be worth it!

We've been going to music each week for the last month or so. Now that Fiona is used to it she is really opening up! I love seeing this. She is singing along, bravely going up to collect her own instruments, and dancing about the room. Yesterday she even held hands and danced with the teacher! Woo Hoo! At home she sings the songs and taps sticks singing "three-one-two" (or various other orders). She has always loved music and dancing so I'm so glad that we have found this fun thing for her. I'm already seeing her blossoming because of it.


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 

And along with winter coming, I only have a little over 10 weeks until Katmai's little brother or sister shows up. Eeek!

Oh my goodness, really? Wow! Remind us, was Katmai early, on-time, or late? And where will this one be born? And did you decide on what river to name the new babe after?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 

I'm also failing at night weaning. I pretty much gave up. Some nights she is nursing soooo much! I don't get it.

I am right there with you, hon! We were all sick for a while, so I let her nurse as much as she wanted, which completely undid all of the work we'd done towards night weaning. Now I'm trying to get us back on track, but she just wants to nurse ALL NIGHT LONG. And now, when I tell her that "Num nums went night-night, you can have a cuddle or a drink of water" she melts into hysterics, whereas before, she used to whine for a moment and then go back to sleep. Now she sits up, cries and screams and kicks her feet and won't be comforted by DP or me unless I'm willing to offer the boob. I've been holding my ground, but it's exhausting.

We have news! We've decided to try for a second child!








I've booked an appointment with the fertility clinic, and have a check-up scheduled with the family doc. We've been thinking hard about it ever since having Esmé, and finally came to a decision the other night. We have four more embryos, and would like to give them a shot at becoming an amazing kid, like Esmé. Who knows if we'll be blessed with another babe, but we're going to give it a shot. If any of you recall, E was two weeks early due to my pre-eclampsia, so that might be a factor in any subsequent pregnancies.
Along with that decision, I've decided not to go full time as a paramedic. I just want to be home with Mé as much as possible, and can't see my way to being away from her so long, and having to get childcare. We'll see how we manage on the abbreviated income.
The great thing is that if we do get pregnant, then I'll get another 62 or so weeks on EI to be home with Mé and the baby!








Wish us luck! We'll being trying in December at the earliest, or May at the latest.


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Nightweaning is worth it!! Makenna never slept through the night. Now she sleeps 11 or 11.5 hours! She does wake up after around 10 hours and comes in our bed to finish out her sleep. She doesn't even wake and need comforting at all. Just sleeps. I never, ever thought it would happen. But it happened pretty quickly after she accepted the weaning. Also, there was no way she would ever just sleep next to me in bed before - she had to be nursing and would never unlatch. So it is really fanastic for me now to have her lay next to me and just sleep. She has to hold my hand now but I much prefer that to my boob! It's rough night weaning! And I was lucky that my DH did a lot of the work - she got too hysterical being around me and not nursing. It was well worth it though. Maybe it won't be as bad since she is older. We did it back in May, I think.

McKittre: 10 weeks! Wow! So exciting! You are so awesome to be out hiking with a toddler on you when you're that far along.  I have a couple IRL friends due around the same time.

Makenna got pushed by a boy at the park on Friday. An 18 month old. She fell to her bottom but didn't even cry. Then he tried to push her again but I stopped him. She has been pretty upset by it. Saying "Heny push Nenna" (henry push Makenna) with a furrowed brow and "Heny go home". She said it every now and then for 3 days and again when we went back to the park yesterday. Made me sad to see how upset she was. It really wasn't that big a deal but I guess she is getting to the age that she can ponder the incident more instead of just moving on.

Cindy


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: We posted at the same time. How exciting!!! Yay! I'm so happy for your family to have another member.  How come you say May at the latest? Bc you'll be out of embryos by then?

In fertility news here, I'm doing hormone testing this month. My luteal phase is still short from nursing. I'm hoping to have better luck this month since we cut down to 1x/day. But if not, I'm going to start progesterone next month and hopefully that will do the trick!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Yay for another TTC-er!! Maybe we'll all end up in a DDC together again!

Another one to say that nightweaning is so worth it! I don't have any advice for how to go about it. I was so lucky with Owyn on that front. Her disinterest in nursing took care of that for us. Lately, she hasn't been sleeping as well and is waking through the night. Only for about as long as it took to nurse her back to sleep before... and I can soooooo tell a difference in how tired I am just from these short wakings.


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## AKislandgirl

Yeah for babies! Mckittre, 10 weeks is going to fly by! How are you feeling? And yes, do tell us your plans for the birth. So exciting!

Starling, I'm so excited for you guys!!! And great decision on your work. I think you will be really happy about that. To have another long stretch of time off with Esmé and the new babe will be amazing. Fingers crossed for you!

Well last month I had a very regular cycle for the first time ever. Right now I'm a couple of days past the length of that cycle. I can't bring myself to test though. I sort of feel like taking a test means I'm allowing myself to think it might be that easy to get pregnant and I'm not ready for the dissapointments and heartache I went through before. But then I get this little glimmer of hope and think maybe? I should just pee on the damn stick and get it over with! AAGH!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: PEE!!!!! Test!! Please???  I hate the waiting game. I ovulated 6 day ago. I'm trying to convince myself not to waste any tests unless I end up w/a normal length luteal phase. Testing usually makes my period start.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
Starling: We posted at the same time. How exciting!!! Yay! I'm so happy for your family to have another member.  How come you say May at the latest? Bc you'll be out of embryos by then?

In fertility news here, I'm doing hormone testing this month. My luteal phase is still short from nursing. I'm hoping to have better luck this month since we cut down to 1x/day. But if not, I'm going to start progesterone next month and hopefully that will do the trick!

Cindy

It is exciting! I say May at the latest for starting, because I can't quite remember what lead-up/prep we had to do last time. Argh, progesterone. The suppositories? So gross. I remember those. I've blocked out whether I had to do them beforehand, or just for the first trimester. They're so gross. Not a part of the process that I'm looking forward to. Blech.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Starling, I'm so excited for you guys!!! And great decision on your work. I think you will be really happy about that. To have another long stretch of time off with Esmé and the new babe will be amazing. Fingers crossed for you!

Well last month I had a very regular cycle for the first time ever. Right now I'm a couple of days past the length of that cycle. I can't bring myself to test though. I sort of feel like taking a test means I'm allowing myself to think it might be that easy to get pregnant and I'm not ready for the dissapointments and heartache I went through before. But then I get this little glimmer of hope and think maybe? I should just pee on the damn stick and get it over with! AAGH!

I'm really happy about the work decision. I'm not sure how I'll manage being pregnant at work this time. Last time I worked at a very small town station where everyone was happen to do the lifting for me and there weren't many calls in any given shift. This time I'm at a busy urban station, where they don't take kindly to pregnant lesbians (quite a Born Again Christian hotbed city). So, who knows.
I'm actually thinking about going back into social work (shelters, transition houses, detox). Shorter shifts, not so much blood and gore.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
Yay for another TTC-er!! Maybe we'll all end up in a DDC together again!

Another one to say that nightweaning is so worth it! I don't have any advice for how to go about it. I was so lucky with Owyn on that front. Her disinterest in nursing took care of that for us. Lately, she hasn't been sleeping as well and is waking through the night. Only for about as long as it took to nurse her back to sleep before... and I can soooooo tell a difference in how tired I am just from these short wakings.

That'd be so cool to be in a DDC together again! I don't have as much hope that we'll get pregnant again ... it happened so fast and easy with Mé, on the first try. This time we'll have to decide if we're putting in 1 or 2 embryos. We'd have to be prepared for twins if we put in two.


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## Mal85

Oh the fun that comes with wonky cycles. Mine were always weird before Owyn. I think it was some kind of miracle that I got pregnant with her without really trying. I'm on day 47 in this cycle and still not period. I've tested 3 times in the last week and a half only to be disappointed.







I'm thinking of getting the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility. Maybe it would help give me some idea of when I ovulate or signs to look for that tell me I'm ovulating. I really don't know the first thing about it since I didn't do any of that the first time around. DH is happy so far. The not knowing means he's getting some fairly often, lol!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Highly reccomend the book and charting or at least knowing your fertility signs. If nothing else, it would be nice to know when you ovulated just so you aren't wondering if it's time to test or not. I chart and use ovulation predictor kits (OPKs). It all drives me a bit nuts but I am a control freak and think that I prefer to know as much as possible. I'd probably be better off not knowing. LOL. BTW, I chart using www.fertilityfriend.com. I think they have tutorials on there if you don't want to go the book route.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Mal, I highly recommend that book! I learned so much about my body and cycles from it. Having the charts was really helpful when first seeking medical help to conceive as well. It's the kind of book I think every woman should read!

Cindy, Ok I'll pee for you! But not until this weekend. And I only have expired pregnancy tests (3/10). Do you think they would still work?


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Hmmm - that's a while to wait.  If I make it to the weekend I plan on POAS too. I have no idea about expired tests. I'd hate for you to get a false something or other bc they're expired.

Cindy


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## mckittre

starling - how exciting! If you don't mind me asking - how is it that you decide which of you gets pregnant? And I'm glad you're finding work that'll be less stressful.

hoping all who are trying will have little babes soon - it'll be fun to see how all these kids do with new brothers and sisters.









My plans: Since there is no one who delivers babies in my town, I don't have much choice in birth plans. Luckily, the choice is pretty good. I'm delivering with the nurse-midwife practice at the hospital in the next town over - same folks as with Katmai. There's 3 of them, and all are great, and the hospital is quite small and natural birth friendly. Only problem is that I have to go over a couple weeks early to wait for the baby to come - transport by small plane is not reliable enough in the winter to count on it on short notice.
Katmai was 4 days late. If this one is similar, I might get a solstice baby!
I think this one will be named after a bay, but I'll hold out on saying the actual name choices just yet.

Nightweaning: It's gone well for us (also have switched Katmai to his own space), but maybe only because I'm out of milk and can't stand to nurse for more than a minute or two anyway. He mostly only wakes once or twice at night. But getting him to sleep in the first place is totally hopeless. Last night he played and played until he finally fell asleep in the middle of the floor at 10:45PM.


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## Everrgreen

Lots of exciting updates!! It sounds like there's going to be a few big brothers and sisters around here









And McKittre, omg 10 weeks! Yay! It seems like you just announced your pregnancy! Has Katmai shown any interest in your growing belly?

I did the whole charting thing when ttc, I used fertilityfriend.com as well. I charted my temperatures, checked my cervix and cervical fluid, checked for saliva ferning. I had crazy baby fever! My cycles have been a lot more regular since af returned, so I'm hoping my next pregnancy will happen easily (although it will probably be a few years - I need a new husband







)

I think I'll get serious about nightweaning once we're moved, we have a busy couple of weeks coming up. Plus at the moment we are recovering from a bit of a cold. I never really thought I would do child-led weaning, but I didn't realize how hard it is to wean (and all I'm attempting at the moment is nightweaning!)

AK - That is so great that Fiona is loving her music class! I want to find a class to take with Royce. The new city I'm moving to is very big with tons of different things to do, I'm not used to having so many options! But I'd like to try something. I was thinking he might like something active like sports/gymnastics etc (the city has a soccer program that starts at 6 months of age







). But he would definitely need a small class size as he gets overwhelmed when there are too many other kids. And I would hate to pay for a class and have him not like it or not want to participate.

Anyone else do any organized activities? What are your favourites?


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## starling&diesel

*AK and Cindy* ...









*mckittre* ... Sounds like you have everything hammered down! Any contractions yet? And as for your question, I gestate the babies in this household. DP is about as butch as it gets, and I can't get her feet into stirrups for a pap test, let alone for anything baby-related! She'd look ridiculous if she were pregnant. And I like being pregnant ... except for the pre-e part. I'm excited about having another chance at it! I imagine this time I'd be more relaxed about it all. Are you? Or were you always the type to go tromping into the wilds while vastly pregnant?









*Gillian* ... I hear you on the difficulties that come along with child-led weaning. Who knew it'd be so hard? Esmé is ADDICTED to her num-nums, and increasingly so. She's so intense about them that I wonder if I can even get to stop, should I get pregnant! I can't see it being gentle, but with my supply being low, I know I'd dry up, and it would likely be uncomfortable. (Wow, how's about me putting the cart before the horse!







)

And as for *organized classes* ... we did sign DP and Esmé up for a 6-eek toddler art class, but it was so lame that we decided to ask for a refund. Our recreational dollars are so limited that I'm not willing to 'waste' a precious penny of them! I'm super artsy, so it seemed silly. It was a chance for DP and E to do something structured together, but DP would really rather do another music class, which Esmé loved. None on this quarter, but maybe in the winter.


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## Nillarilla

Wow







to all those ttc. We've decided to wait on that front and I feel relaxed and right about it.
Nightweaning for us was much needed. It means she sleeps. We've cut down to 2 nursings a day 1 on waking and 1 before bed.
As far as organized activities go we do gymnastics and swimming. D loves gymnastics and so far hates the swimming. She liked it this summer but right now it's not a happy time.
I've applied to take a grad studies prep course. It means I have to pay 2 application fees but hopefully it will mean that I feel like I am doing something instead of just sitting around waiting. I still have to finish my letter of intent and get my academic references.


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## justKate

Nilla, that's exciting! When does the class start?

Cindy, Sue, Starling, Mal, I would definitely stalk you guys if you end up in a DDC together again.

Gillian, did you say someone's toddler takes a 3 hour nap? I don't believe it. I refuse.

As for us, not much new here. Still waiting to hear where we'll be moving next--Huz is sort of pushing for Kodiak but I'm nervous about it. For one, it will be so far from my family (in MD), and I know I'm likely to get crap from my mom about that. My brother is already in England, so my mom will take it personally. It would be four years, which seems like a long time. Sue--what's the housing like there? Are there any rentals? We would probably be encouraged to live in base housing, which is usually uke Does everything cost a lot more?

For now, I'm trying to be content knowing that I only have seven months of work left before I get to be a SAHM for a while.







And I'm a Holiday Helper this year, which is helping me stay distracted at work. That's got me thinking some about Christmas, and what a struggle it is going to be to keep things small this year. For Aubs, I'm looking at a train from this etsy shop... or maybe a Plan toys truck set or something.

I was trying to find an MDC mama that makes something like this train, but so far, no luck.

ETA: Sue, I just read on ICAN's website that the hospital there in Kodiak does not allow VBACs. Is it safe to assume that there isn't a birth center?


----------



## Mal85

Glad I'm not the only one thinking about Christmas already!









I am going overboard with Owyn this year. She needs big girl toys!! I'm always so picky about the things I get her. All that's resulted in is a complete lack of anything fun to do at my house. Last year, we had a system of 1. Something she wants. 2. Something she needs. 3. Something to play with. 4 Something to read. Some of those categories had sub-categories and I also got her an ornament, which I'll do every year.

This year, it's going to be mostly toys, which I kind of hate doing, but it's needed here! She's definitely getting dress up clothes. I'm going to hit the clearance racks after Halloween for that. Also, DH is making her a table and chairs and has picked out a play tent for her. She is in love with my niece's Little People sets, so I'm thinking I will get her one or two of those sets. I am leaning towards vintage ones though, I love the old school Little People. My IL's are getting her a balance bike that will be fun to play with next spring and summer. My parent's are getting her a Bitty Baby, so I might get the stroller that goes with it.

Sounds like so much, but hopefully having things that are age appropriate for her will help keep her entertained around here! (plus, I'm cheating by bulking up for daycare at the same time. 2 birds, 1 stone)

I so wanted to do the kitchen for her this year too, but DH is the carpenter and is not loving the idea. So, I'm pushing for it for her birthday.


----------



## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *justKate* 
Nilla, that's exciting! When does the class start?

Cindy, Sue, Starling, Mal, I would definitely stalk you guys if you end up in a DDC together again.

Gillian, did you say someone's toddler takes a 3 hour nap? I don't believe it. I refuse.

As for us, not much new here. Still waiting to hear where we'll be moving next--Huz is sort of pushing for Kodiak but I'm nervous about it. For one, it will be so far from my family (in MD), and I know I'm likely to get crap from my mom about that. My brother is already in England, so my mom will take it personally. It would be four years, which seems like a long time. Sue--what's the housing like there? Are there any rentals? We would probably be encouraged to live in base housing, which is usually uke Does everything cost a lot more?

For now, I'm trying to be content knowing that I only have seven months of work left before I get to be a SAHM for a while.







And I'm a Holiday Helper this year, which is helping me stay distracted at work. That's got me thinking some about Christmas, and what a struggle it is going to be to keep things small this year. For Aubs, I'm looking at a train from this etsy shop... or maybe a Plan toys truck set or something.

*I was trying to find an MDC mama that makes something like this train, but so far, no luck.*

ETA: Sue, I just read on ICAN's website that the hospital there in Kodiak does not allow VBACs. Is it safe to assume that there isn't a birth center?

I talk to a woman on another board who makes handmade wooden toys. Here is her website. I looked at her shop and don't see any trains. But I'm sure if you contacted her, you could probably work something out.


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## AKislandgirl

Kate, no birth center but we have a midwife who just moved to town. I've heard that she does VBAC's! I'm so excited about doing a homebirth this next time around!

You should be able to find a rental if you don't want to live on base. I don't really know the quality of the base housing since I've never been in. There are a lot of base houses (mostly duplexes) though! We rented when we first got here. Both places were one bedrooms with weird bonus space that couldn't quite be called 2nd bedrooms. I think we paid $850 a month for those. It seems that some families pass their rentals on to other Coasties as they move on. And yes, it is far from everything. The hard part for me is being away from family. It's just really expensive to get off island. But there are lots of other great things about it.

Christmas... trying hard to keep it simple but I always go a bit beyond that. We'll see how this goes!


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## Vegan Princess

Oh man, is it really time to start thinking about Christmas?? Perhaps DH and I should start thinking about buying our ticket to Indiana to be with his family sometime soon. I haven't put any thought into buying anything yet. Money is tight tight tight. We will probably only buy Makenna 1 toy since she has so many and the rest of our families will probably buy more. We have barely bought her any - she has lots of hand me downs and gifts. Thankfully I have been able to give my input on a lot of them.

Makenna's lady bug halloween costume just arrived. She has been really into ladybugs lately and we've been reading a book called "Lady Bug Girl" a lot. She she loved trying it on and saying she was ladybug girl! So cute! We're all going to have to post pictures of our little ones in their costumes!!

Cindy


----------



## Everrgreen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *justKate* 
Gillian, did you say someone's toddler takes a 3 hour nap? I don't believe it. I refuse.

Yep, I know I don't want to believe it either! The mom I know is the daycare provider for this little girl. She said she puts her in the crib at 1, she falls asleep on her own, and then she will sleep until around 4 and sometimes she has to wake her up at that time. It is very possible that some sleep training methods have been used, I'm not sure.

Christmas - Oh I have no idea. My parents have started asking me what Royce would like and I don't know. My mom thought maybe she would get him his own little bed, just to have in case he wants to try sleeping there on his own





















I think I want to get him the little slide from Ikea. Oh and maybe a big truck, he loves trucks and trains right now. And balls, he loves balls, but he has enough of those. He's such a stereotypical boy!

So, not to get *too* far ahead, but after Christmas comes birthdays! Our babies will be turning TWO. I want to do something fun. Right now I'm thinking of taking him to one of those indoor playground/gym things and then having dinner out. At this point we still have more adult guests then kid guests (especially because we're moving to a new town so I'll be starting all over with making friends). I can't believe he'll be two. How on earth did that happen?


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nillarilla* 
I've applied to take a grad studies prep course. It means I have to pay 2 application fees but hopefully it will mean that I feel like I am doing something instead of just sitting around waiting. I still have to finish my letter of intent and get my academic references.

That's exciting! I'm so behind, professionally. In my writing career, I was supposed to have submitted a competed mss last month. Still not done.
As a paramedic, I'm behind in my education credits, and not even able to think about ever becoming ALS. So far away in the future. If ever.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
She's definitely getting dress up clothes. I'm going to hit the clearance racks after Halloween for that.


Great idea! I'm going to do that too! Thanks!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 

So, not to get *too* far ahead, but after Christmas comes birthdays! Our babies will be turning TWO. I want to do something fun.

Turning two! Insane! I think we'll book a community room at the local rec centre and have a messy painting party or some such thing.

As for Christmas, we do the Victorian Christmas too ... something you want, something you need, something to wear, something to read. I've put aside a few things during the year, so we're done. She's getting a balance bike (got SUCH a deal on it! Still in the box, new, 70% off!) as her big fun toy, but I'm worried that she's not the type of kid who'll want it. I'm considering selling it and getting her a Waldorf doll, or wooden dollhouse or some play food and such. She's so into her collection of small animals.


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## mckittre

My plan for Christmas is to have a baby - hopefully not too late, so we all make it back home in time to have Christmas with my inlaws here. Then I will nurse my newborn under the tree.







Katmai has plenty of stuff, and I'm not worried about gifts for adults. If I'm organized in the next month or two, I'll send homemade jam to some folks. If not, it'll happen in late winter/spring. I'm sure grandparents will send us stuff for Katmai regardless.

starling - I am much more relaxed about this pregnancy. I know the drill, I know the midwives, I've done it before... Not that things will necessarily be smooth, but it's just not so new and scary.

Nilla - what are you studying?

3 hour naps?! I just want any sort of nap. Actually, I want him to be able to go to sleep at all (10PM, 2 tries down, no sign of success in the near future). He can't be getting enough sleep, but nursing doesn't work (and I can't do it for long enough), the songs aren't working anymore - nothing is working. He's very pleasant for an overtired boy, but I feel bad for him.


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 
My plan for Christmas is to have a baby - hopefully not too late, so we all make it back home in time to have Christmas with my inlaws here. Then I will nurse my newborn under the tree.









I love this Christmas plan!









Sorry Katmai isn't sleeping so hot. Before our vacation this August Fiona was the same way. She just wouldn't go to bed forever! I was tired, she was tired. But leaving sort of helped us get out of our rut and now we have a good bed time routine. How did he sleep on your treck? He was probably so wiped out from hiking he crashed easily.

I like the idea of a balance bike but I wonder when Fiona could handle using it? Are you guys looking ahead more towards summer biking?

I think if I can talk DH into it (he's worried about the space in our little house) I want to get Fiona a wooden kitchen for either Christmas or Birthday. I think she would love it!

We will do books too. What are your kids loving right now. Fi loves In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak.


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## Everrgreen

I have a balance bike for Royce that I bought last winter because it was a good deal. The box said 18 months and up, so at the time I thought he might be able to try it in the summer. I didn't even try it though, just looking at it and at him and I knew he wasn't ready. So I still have it tucked away. Next summer for sure he will use it. I think I'll give it to him in the spring.

Royce also has a little kitchen, it's small though, he sits at it. It's this one. I think he would like a bigger kitchen that he can stand at, that's another idea for him. I like the one at Ikea (I have a thing for Ikea stuff







) AND, Ikea has tons of kitchen accessories and play food now. So that's another idea for Christmas or Birthday.

Royce loves his books too, he doesn't really have a favourite though. Maybe anything with animal pictures, he also likes me to read "I love you through and through" which is such a sweet book.

mckittre - Your Christmas plans sound perfect


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## justKate

We like _I love you through and through_ too. It wasn't such a hit for a while, but now that she can say "Be-uh" and point to the baby's ears, the bear's ears, and her ears, and connect it logically I think she likes it more. Animals are a HUGE hit here too.

I think the favorite book right now is First 100 Words and we've got First 100 Machines on the dresser waiting for the right time. I think she likes that she can look at lots of pictures at once.







She also liked these So I have a feeling we're going to have different tastes in things.

Re. balance bikes (I see people talking about these everywhere!), I think the kids will probably get it more easily if they have siblings and cousins, or even parents riding bikes around them. Aubs would look at it once and think "why would I do that when my legs work just fine?" But they are really neat.


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
I like the idea of a balance bike but I wonder when Fiona could handle using it? Are you guys looking ahead more towards summer biking?
We will do books too. What are your kids loving right now. Fi loves In the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak.

*Balance bikes* ... I guess we'll see if Esmé takes to it or not, but yes, I'd guess she'll be more into in the summer. We have a couple of schoolyards nearby that have nice, flat, fenced in areas. We'll probably head there first.

*Books* ... Esmé loooooooves her books. Her current favourites are "Donna O'Neeshuck Was Chased By Some Cows" and "So Much" and Brown Bear, Brown Bear" and "Corduroy" and "The Paper Bag Princess."

*Play Kitchens* ... Oh my goodness, Gillian! That one looks so affordable! Where did you get yours? I still think we don't have the space for it, but might consider that one. It looks pretty small.


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## Everrgreen

justKate - the 100 words book is a big hit with Royce too, lots of things to learn the word for (not that he actually says the words, but he will point to what I'm saying







). And we do actions for every page of the 'I love you through and through' I think that's why Royce likes reading that one!

Starling - I got it at HomeSense last Christmas, do you have that store out west? It's a sister store of Winners, so they may have sold them too. They had a couple of bigger wooden kitchen sets too. Maybe they'll have more for this Christmas, it's hard to tell with that store the inventory is always different.


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## mckittre

Katmai loves books too, and will bring them to us to read constantly if we're inside. He likes things with fish, animals, and trucks - whichever book I'm most sick of is bound to be his favorite. For the ones with a lot of different objects on a page (like color books), he's starting to try to make up stories about how the different things fit together: "that bear like eat that bread, and that choc(olate)", "that octopus drive that car - go move", "dinosaur wear that shirt", etc...

Dumb question: what is a balance bike? I've never heard of or seen one? I doubt Katmai is ready for any kind of bike on icy snowy roads though, so there's little point until next summer (when he still might not be ready to bike on rough gravel roads).


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## AKislandgirl

here is one type of balance bike... no pedals so the kids learn to balance and glide before moving to petals and don't need training wheels. They also make metal ones too which are more like a "real" bike but I like those wooden ones. I suppose if older kids are around riding bikes (siblings and such) the metal one would be cooler!


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## Nillarilla

McKittre I am applying to graduate studies as a distance program in Health Information Sciences and Nursing. It's a double degree. The prep course is for grad studies in nursing. But apparently the email I got on how to apply was wrong since it's still an undergrad course. So I have to reapply. Hopefully I have not missed the deadline because of this. It starts in January and uses a lot of the online software and technology the graduate courses will so I think it will help familiarize me.

Play Kitchens we have this one. It fits nicely under our little window. It is honestly the most played with item in my house. But my ds is a cook in his own right at 4. He has been since he was about 18months. Food is his thing. So I'm sure he steers his sister in that direction. Both of them also love the duplo. We have a train set and it never gets much play and a dollhouse that hardly ever gets used.
Her favorite thing right now is babies. I think I'm going to get her the little doll bed from Ikea and make her some doll diapers. I really wanted to get her own of those nursing dolls but I couldn't justify the expense. 130 bucks for a doll is just too much. They were absolutely gorgeous and certainly felt sturdy. I also really liked these pixie dolls. I think she'll probably also get a stroller.
As for books she likes to 'weed' anything as long as it moves quickly.
My kids always get pajamas and an ornament. It's a tradition.
This topic is good since my cousin's little boy is having his 2nd birthday next weekend and I want to get him something he'll love.
Well I'm off to work last day.


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## starling&diesel

Oh my goodness, *Nilla*! Those nursing dolls are beautiful! Esmé would love one! I made her some flashcards the other day for the alphabet and as we went along, she'd pick what picture she wanted on the card. I'd say, "A is for ..." and she'd say "Apple." B for bee, C for cow and so on. Until we got to N. I said, "And N is for?" And while I was trying to think of something, she piped up, "N is for nipples! N is for num nums! N is for nursing!" And so I drew a picture of me, topless!


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## Vegan Princess

Nilla: Those dolls are awesome. Makenna heard the music playing and came and sat on my lap and enjoyed looking at them. She nurses her toys sometimes.

Starling: Wow - Esme is a bright one!! I can't even get Makenna to sing the ABC song with me. She knows some letters but doesn't knowwhat words go along - that is super advanced!  BTW, I was wondering - you're not planning to wean before TTC are you? I'm guessing no. Nursing has really messed with my cycle. Hopefully yours is back to normal, despite the nursing.

Sue: Have you tested yet??? 

Makenna and I both were sick yesterday. So hard being a mom when you are sick and your little one needs you even more. We're both much better today though, thankfully. She also got another tooth so she kept saying "mouth boo boo". It's very nice now that she can tell me what hurts...makes things so much easier.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
Nilla: Those dolls are awesome. Makenna heard the music playing and came and sat on my lap and enjoyed looking at them. She nurses her toys sometimes.

Starling: Wow - Esme is a bright one!! I can't even get Makenna to sing the ABC song with me. She knows some letters but doesn't knowwhat words go along - that is super advanced!  BTW, I was wondering - you're not planning to wean before TTC are you? I'm guessing no. Nursing has really messed with my cycle. Hopefully yours is back to normal, despite the nursing.

Sue: Have you tested yet??? 

Makenna and I both were sick yesterday. So hard being a mom when you are sick and your little one needs you even more. We're both much better today though, thankfully. She also got another tooth so she kept saying "mouth boo boo". It's very nice now that she can tell me what hurts...makes things so much easier.

Cindy

Hi Cindy ... Esmé is certainly a wordy little kid. And she does love the alphabet! Her favourite letters are E, S and M. Wonder why?









Hmm, weaning before TTC. Well, I already take birth control pills to regulate my cycle, so it's bang on in terms of timing, but I do notice that it my period is considerably shorter and lighter. If I have to wean before doing an IVF cycle, it would mean pushing the dates back by far. I can't imagine weaning her any time in the near future. She is so boob-obsessed. I would really like to encourage other ways for her to be soothed by me. Any suggestions?

I have started to tell her that babies need num-nums more than big girls.







That's not something I ever wanted to do, but I need to start somewhere. Poor Mé. She just loves nursing. And after such a rocky start with it and low, low supply, I don't want to give it up any earlier than necessary.

Sorry to hear that you two were sick ... it makes me wonder how I'll manage being pregnant and feeling poorly. *Mckittre*? How have you felt during this pregnancy?


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## mckittre

I've been lucky with this pregnancy so far. I didn't even know I was pregnant until 11 weeks, so missed out on the early symptoms, and have been basically fine and active (though a little slower and sleepier) since. I also got pregnant with Katmai literally the first moment it was possible, and with this one as a surprise accident despite an all-the-time nurser. Feel free to hate me now.







Though I think my husband's getting snipped after this one, or I'll end up with a dozen kids! I did have some strange complications near the end of my pregnancy with Katmai (a weird liver-related itching thing), so I'm holding my breath that doesn't come back.

starling - if you don't need to stop nursing to get pregnant, it'll probably be OK. Katmai loves his nursing too, but has dealt pretty well with the loss of milk, and with me severely limiting the length of nursing sessions. He still asks and nurses though, so I expect I'll be nursing both soon.

Esme's alphabet is impressive! Katmai is wordy enough when it comes to communication, but hasn't shown any interest in letters.

Cindy - Every time Katmai hurts himself, he comes to me and says "Need dis(kiss) on --- (whatever body part)" Very cute, but wouldn't work so well for teething!

I wish I could get Katmai to show even the slightest interest in babies or dolls. I got him some "baby coming" and "big brother" type books, and he won't look at them - keeps bringing me ocean-themed books instead. He'd rather we brought home a new octopus, I think.


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## Everrgreen

It is 5:00am and I am awake







Not because of Royce though, we had a fire alarm in the building about an hour ago and now I can't get back to sleep (Royce is back to sleep). I hate this!

Anyway,

Starling - Wow! I am totally impressed with Esme! She sounds like a very smart girl!

It's hard to tell with Royce what he really knows as he still isn't talking. I think he's going to need speech therapy. I'm a little worried that something is wrong. He saw the doctor at 19 months, and the doctor admitted he was a little behind but thought we should give it a few months to see if he has a breakthrough. It's only been a month since then and I guess Royce does have a couple more words. But I find even the words he does say are garbled in a strange way. For instance, he recently learned 'cow' but the way he says it is a really long drawn out 'owwww', no 'c', he seems to drop the first letter on a lot of words. Except maybe 'doggie' which he says very quickly. And he has a weird sort of babble that I haven't heard from any other toddlers his age. It is like he is carrying on a complete conversation in a different language. It's very unique. He also doesn't copy sounds/words that I make, sometimes it seems like he's trying to but what he is saying isn't even the right sound or in any way similar to my word. I don't know. I've read that you don't have to worry until age 2, but at the same time I don't want to wait and have him get further and further behind.

Okay, so I guess I'm rambling on because it's 5 in the morning


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 
I got him some "baby coming" and "big brother" type books, and he won't look at them - keeps bringing me ocean-themed books instead. He'd rather we brought home a new octopus, I think.











And here's hoping and praying that the liver itching stays at bay!


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## starling&diesel

Gillian ... Is it really time yet to worry? I have a friend who takes care of three little ones all around the age of our babes and they have about ten words between them. And her little boy doesn't say anything except "Hi" and "No." And he's a Jan 28th baby. Isn't it supposed to be more about receptive language at this point?
I know that Esmé is a bit ahead in terms of language, and I always feel like a braggart when it comes up, but I'm constantly worried about her social development and her intense anxiety about minor things. If it's not one thing, it's another ... when, in reality, by the time our little ones are five it will all have evened out!


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## Vegan Princess

McKittre: I hope the liver itching stays away! eww! Makenna is super into me kissing boo boos now too. I kiss probably 50/day. LOL. She seems to concoct a lot or tal about old ones from weeks ago and need them kissed.

Gillian: I'm guessing it's still normal too. But perhaps there are things you can do to help him along a bit extra? I'm sure you are already doing them. I do buy into the boys talking later idea myself.

Well we had a rough night. M sounded like she was getting croup so we had her in bed all night. I had cramps bc my period was arriving and was uncomfy. Blah. So another month of no baby. Not surprised. I think I'll be starting some meds this month that will hopefully do the trick. My cycle lengthened 1 day this month but is still on the short side, despite being down to only nursing before bed. Makenna was so stuffy last night she nursed a tiny bit then I wiped her nose and she didn't want to nurse anymore. I'm starting to think she might actually give it up for good on her own in the nearer term rather than later. :-(

Starling: I never thought I'd be able to get down to 1 nursing after how addicted M was. She handled it WAY better than I ever imagined possible. I hear you on not wanting to rush it though! I feel a bit bad weaning this much but I haven't been able to get preg and nursing was starting to wear me down. I do plan to let her keep her 1 nursing/day until she doesn't want it anymore though. Even if it means tandeming. I think a low supply mama can handle 1 extra nursing/day.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Yeah, it probably is a bit early for me to be worrying. That's what I get for rambling at 5 in the morning







It is a bit of a concern, but I'm still planning on waiting until he's 2 and then seeing how he's doing at that point. And I'm visiting my mom today and I was outside for a minute and she was with Royce and she insists that he said 'where's mama?' which would be his first sentence (sort of a sentence), if he actually did say it.

Cindy -







I'm sorry af arrived. I hated that when ttc, it seems so rude of mother nature to announce 'oh you're not pregnant, and btw here are some cramps for you'

Starling - I love hearing all the amazing things our little ones are doing - it's not bragging at all! And Royce's receptive language is pretty good, so he's probably ok for now. The Dr. Sears charts freak me out a bit though (in 'The Baby Book'). I guess we all worry, but all of our babies have different developmental milestones that they are working on and excelling at









My 'bragging' about Royce would probably be his skills at the playground climbing and doing everything on his own. He also is excellent at catch and has even started kicking the ball. Oh, and just the other day he put his shoes on by himself! And of course he's adorable


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## Mal85

Sue- Anxiously waiting to hear if you tested this weekend!

We had a great weekend feeling like kids again. Owyn seemed to have a great time with my ILs while DH and I had a weekend away. They said she was pretty quiet all day Saturday, like she was just wondering if we were coming back. She's been back to her normal self for the most part, since we got home. She did have a mini-meltdown when DH left for work this morning, which is something she never does. So, I guess she's still adjusting.

I had some menstrual-like cramps all day yesterday, but no period. I'm hoping it was ovulation, which would _hopefully_ mean a BFP sometime soon! Keep your fingers crossed for us!


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## justKate

Nursing--we weaned earlier than I had planned, but it got to a point where I just couldn't TAKE it anymore. Aubs was a violent nurser.... But it makes me so happy that she remembers nursing. She'll be sitting on my lap (like facing me) and look down my shirt and say "boo?" "Yep, boobies. What are boobies for?" "Baby!" And then she'll pretend to nurse (in this toothy, chompy eating way). So it makes me a little sad, but she is fine with it, so that helps. It also helps that she feeds her baby doll a bottle through it's belly button--because babies eat boobies.









Mal--









Sentences--don't think Aubs has any real ones yet. She says "nigh night Dada" and "awe you mieuuu?" (Where are you, milk? when looking for her cup.)

Has anyone ever noticed how many words start with "B"? Baby, blanket, bye bye, bird, big, button, bed, bear....


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 

I had some menstrual-like cramps all day yesterday, but no period. I'm hoping it was ovulation, which would _hopefully_ mean a BFP sometime soon! Keep your fingers crossed for us!

BFP! BFP! Come on, BFP!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *justKate* 
It also helps that she feeds her baby doll a bottle through it's belly button--because babies eat boobies.










So cute. Esmé saw a baby being fed a bottle in a cafe the other day:
E: Mama, what dat baby drinkin'?
Me: Her mama is giving her some milk, in a bottle.
E: Bottle?
Me: Yes, some babies get their milk from a bottle.
E: Dat baby no have num-nums? No nurse mama?
Me: Maybe she nurses too.
E: (Shaking her head) No nursing. Baby want num-nums!
At this point the baby started crying. Esmé looked at me, alarmed. "Baby needs num-nums, Mama! No bottle!"

It would seem that I have created a militant pro-breastfeeder. If only she knew the struggle I had with low supply and donor milk and supplemental nursing systems!!!


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## AKislandgirl

I tested and got a negative... on an expired test! Ha! The control line came up though. I figure if I still don't have a period I'll test again with a new test towards the end of the week. I'm much more relaxed about it this time around... mostly because I don't really think it's possible.

I've been having this wierd light headed dizzy thing going on though. I'm getting over the longest ever cold and think it has more to do with that then anything but it does have me thinking...

I've started the process of night weaning again with more effort this time around. To begin with I've been cutting the nursing short by telling her "finish up, nu-nu's go night night." For the first two nights she just unlatched and rolled over and went back to sleep! Last night she fussed more about but was able to fall asleep after only a few minutes of crying/fussing. Early this morning I just pulled her in with me from her side carred bed and she didn't even try to nurse. I'm feeling like this is going to work after all. I just need to take it slow and hope that when I tell her no from the beginning she doesn't flip. I'm going to wait several more days on that.

Starling, I love that conversation of Esmé's!

Gillian, while I think that you are still in the normal range with Royce I think a speech evaluation might be worth it. If they do indeed find that he needs speech therapy then great you are starting early! If he is just slightly delayed they can likely give you some things to work on at home. Every parent that I know with a child in speech therapy wishes that they started earlier. I hope that this doesn't worry you more- just another perspective.

Cute Fiona thing... we've all had colds and she always says bless you. Now she calls tissues "bless you."







Cuteness.

Mal, fingers crossed.
Cindy, sorry this wasn't the month for you. Are you going to try Clomid? I plan on doing a couple more months of mayan massage and then we'll go back to the clomid route. Sure would love to at least skip the IUI. We'll see.


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## mckittre

Gillian - Everything I've heard/read suggests that receptive language is really the important thing - if he understands you, he'll probably talk when he's ready. (kids who don't understand might have hearing or other problems)

It's really true how they all have their own strengths and weaknesses, and develop different skills at different times. Katmai's jabbering away in sentences, attempting to pick up words like "flotsam" and "helicopter", and memorizing his shorter books. And he does well balancing and walking on slippery/uneven terrain. But he still can't/won't climb up or down a simple kitchen chair! The kids a couple months younger than Katmai that we usually hang out with don't talk much, but can already climb better.

starling - a toddler breastfeeding activist - I love it.


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## Mal85

Anyone here had any experience with Fifth Disease? I'm wondering if Owyn has it... She woke up yesterday with some red blotchiness around her nose. I didn't think anything of it since she had just woke up. Then, she had a couple of meltdowns throughout the morning. So, when it stayed there, didn't think anything of it. By last night, it had spread all over her cheeks. Now, she has some blotchiness around her neck and on her chin. It's flat to the skin, not raised at all and doesn't seem to be bothering her. So, just not sure...

She did run a little bit of a fever last night and is slightly less warm this morning, but she has a tooth coming in. Pretty sure the tooth is in the process of breaking through today, so I'm not sure if it's all related to the teething...

The reading I did on Fifth Disease, basically tells me it'll run its course and shouldn't be contagious once the rash shows up. But, it can cause a miscarriage if a pregnant woman is exposed to it. If I really did ovulate over the weekend, it's possible I'd be newly pregnant right now and not be able to tell yet... Ugh... DH is coming home in a little while to take her to the doctor, so I guess we'll see.


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## Everrgreen

Mal - I have no experience with fifth disease, BUT, I don't think you need to worry if you are pregnant. It takes a couple of weeks before the baby would be connected to your blood stream, in the beginning they get everything from the yolk sac.







I'm sure it will be okay.

AK -







that is was just the expired test!

I've been nursing a bit less this week because my nipples are sooo sore! I think it could be related to my cycles or that Royce was messing up his latch recently (he's getting a couple new teeth). And I have a cold so I'm exhausted and grumpy and don't feel like nursing. Although, he still nurses before bedtime/nap, when waking up from bedtime/nap, a couple times through the night, and maybe once more during awake time


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## AKislandgirl

Mal, I'm sure everything will be OK. Let us know what the Doc says. Hope Owyn is feeling better soon!

Gillian, have you moved yet? Isn't that any time now? I'm sure you are anxious to get settled in your new home. A clean slate! This will be so good for you and Royce!

Yesterday DH had off of work. He got to see a day in the life with an extra kid around. He said he understands why the house isn't always put together when he gets home now! It was a good day!









One thing that we have been working on with Fiona is grabbing toys from my daycare girl. She whines and grabs, whines and grabs. I've been telling her to use her words... I want that please. If I am right there to intervene she'll do it. Then it is explaining she might have to wait... My daycare girl sometimes reminds her too which is sweet but otherwise is a typical 3 year old and says "NO!" So how do you teach sharing to kids? Especially kids who aren't really old enough to share? (like our little ones, I think a 3 year can)


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## Everrgreen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Gillian, have you moved yet? Isn't that any time now? I'm sure you are anxious to get settled in your new home. A clean slate! This will be so good for you and Royce!

Yep! It's being done in two parts though. I leave tomorrow to go there because I get the place on Friday so I have to sign the lease, be there for the utilities people, etc. And then I will be staying with my friends for a week, then next weekend we move all my stuff up (I had to wait until then because my dad couldn't help this weekend, and I can't do it without him). But I am excited to get up there tomorrow! And it will be a giant relief next Sunday when everything is done!
And as a bonus on everything, my friends decided to get a new washer/dryer and they are giving me their old set. My new place has a washer and dryer hook up so I had planned on trying to find a set. I am so excited about not having to use coin laundry anymore - woo hoo!

Re Sharing - Royce definitely doesn't understand the idea. He will often share on his own but sharing against his will? Not going to happen without some good distraction. He also doesn't grab toys that others have, but he will stand right next to them staring, he's creepy like that







The other day we were at a playgroup and he had to take turns with 2 other girls on this one toy and every.single.time I had to get him let the next person go, he would freak out. (And to be honest, I was sort of annoyed with the other girls, because they didn't even want a turn until Royce had it, and then after a few turns I just decided to take Royce somewhere else to distract him, and then they left the toy too







)


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## mckittre

gillian - exciting about the move!

Sharing: I've been working with Katmai on the idea of turns, and he basically gets the concept, but his feeling is that turns should last about 30 seconds. When he takes a toy from another kid (or one tries to take his), I usually tell him to give the kid a different toy. Works well enough for younger kids, but probably wouldn't for the 3 yr old.

I just sorted through a box of hand-me down little clothes, and put some newborn stuff in the dresser with Katmai's stuff!







I still have 2 months, but am starting to feel like it's time to get things ready.


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## Mal85

Well, DH took Owyn to the doc yesterday and they were pretty unhelpful. They ran a strep screen on her which came back negative. And thought it was just a harmless virus that would run its course.

Then, this morning she woke with a fever of 102.4, so I called off daycare for today. I let it go this morning to see if it would come down, since I took her temp right after she woke up. It did come down a little, but she was pretty lethargic all morning. She snoozed on the couch with me for a while. Every now and then, she'd try to get up and play, but lose her energy pretty quick. She asked for breakfast, but hardly touched it, then had some diarrhea. She asked for fruit snacks (her favorite thing in the world right now







) later in the morning and ate that okay. She would touch her lunch, but took a few bites of my chicken. She refuses to drink anything... I've been offering her milk and water all day, she won't drink it.

The redness is spreading onto her chest and down her arms. So, I called the doc back and they want me to bring her in to run labs. Ugh... I hate taking her in to be poked.







Since I gave her some ibuprofen, her fever has stayed down and she acts pretty normal, just a little tired. But when she falls asleep, she wakes up in almost a panic and starts crying like she is in pain. It takes a while to get her calmed down again... My poor baby.


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## AKislandgirl

Oh Mal! Poor Owyn! I sure hope this passes quickly. I hate it when our lo's are sick. Sending healing vibes your way.









Well I couldn't wait till the weekend after all and went and got a new unexpired pregnancy test. Negative. Still no period though. Probably just my long crazy cycle again. Ugh.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: I hope Owyn is better soon! So sad when they are sick!

Sue: Sorry about the BFN! Hopefully you will get one soon!

I got some bad news yesterday. Got one of my hormone tests back and it doesn't look like I am even ovulating. The whole thing makes no sense to me bc I have all the signs of ovulation and have a sustained tempurature shift until AF comes but my progesterone levels were so low they thought maybe not. I still think I am, just not a strong one and I expected my progesterone to be low bc my luteal phase is short. I have no idea what this means. I think it means I might need clomid to get prego again. Sort of depressing but hopefully we can just get things figured out so we can take measures to correct things.

As for sharing, I lost the article, but a friend had sent an article about how kids this age can't grasp the concept of sharing. I'll look for it. Makenna is good with the taking turns concept though for the most part.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Shoot Cindy. While there are some annoying side affects from clomid (hot flashes and moody for me) I did not find it terrible. I just hope that you don't have to go on it for long. It really is amazing that they can figure these things out about our body and help us conceive. I'm eternally grateful for clomid!

I'm almost certain that I'll be on it again soon too. I was on the highest dose last time. My Dr said I can skip right to that dose again if I want but run a higher risk of twins by doing so. I sort of don't want to mess around with all the low doses, do the blood work, wait some more business. I want it to happen right away! DH is a bit freaked by this! We'll see though. I'm going to keep up with the Mayan Massage work for a bit longer. I'm starting to get baby antsy though!


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## Mal85

Took her back in and, sure enough, it's fifth disease. No matter how many times I said the words "fifth disease", the damn doctor could only hear me say "hand, foot, and mouth disease". I knew that's not what it was.







So, two trips to the doc, one day of lost pay, all to be told what I already knew.









Oh well, at least now we know and she will be fine. They said it'll just run its course and she shouldn't feel too terribly bad for it. Just treat the symptoms and it'll be gone in a few days.


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Oh Mal! Poor Owyn! I sure hope this passes quickly. I hate it when our lo's are sick. Sending healing vibes your way.









Well I couldn't wait till the weekend after all and went and got a new unexpired pregnancy test. Negative. Still no period though. *Probably just my long crazy cycle again.* Ugh.

Is this what led you to clomid the first time around? I haven't had a period since August 21, so I'm afraid I'm getting back into the crazy long cycles again. I experienced this before I got pregnant with Owyn and actually got pregnant with her at... well, not what would be considered ideal time for conceiving at all. And it was pretty much by accident that it happened.

I'm really afraid of having trouble this time around. Before getting pregnant the first time, I had mentioned the long cycles to the gyn, wondering if it would make getting pregnant difficult. He more or less shrugged it off and said "Well, we can always put you on clomid if you think you need it." I never thought that was very helpful.







I'm dreading that. I keep hoping I'll have a miracle happen like before.


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## justKate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
Took her back in and, sure enough, it's fifth disease. No matter how many times I said the words "fifth disease", the damn doctor could only hear me say "hand, foot, and mouth disease". I knew that's not what it was.







So, two trips to the doc, one day of lost pay, all to be told what I already knew.









Oh well, at least now we know and she will be fine. They said it'll just run its course and she shouldn't feel too terribly bad for it. Just treat the symptoms and it'll be gone in a few days.

Yikes! That's lousy. I was just searching the Health forum because I think Aubs might have got the Pox. I'm secretly







about it, but I'm not positive yet. She's got four red spots that have come up on her legs and face in the last 36 hours or so, and had a low fever last night. They really look like fire ant bites rather than Fifth's or Hand/Foot/Mouth (we've had that one), but there's no way she could have gotten the fire ant bites over night. I'll probably end up taking her to the doc tomorrow, so we'll see.

I hope Owyn feels better soon.


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## starling&diesel

*justKate* ... I dunno, not sure that I'd put my money on the Pox, but I'm routing for you! It's also that time of year that fleas come inside to get warm. Any cats or dogs at your house?

*Cindy* ... That sucks. As someone who keenly gets the emotional and logistical complexity of fertility issues, you can have a steady supply of hugs from me.






















ps. Have you made any connection between your compromised supply and this?

*Mal* ... Poor Owyn! Some healing vibes to her ...







One great thing is that your mama gut and woman brain were bang on!

*AK* ... It ain't over until Auntie Flow sings!

*Mckittre* ... Aw ... so cute to imagine wee newborn clothes beside Katmai's big boy clothes. He's going to be a big brother!









*Gillian* ... Sounds like a complicated move! Be sure to take some time to breath and enjoy a small treat for yourself. Mocha with extra whipped cream perhaps?

If I missed anyone, I am sorry. Been crazy busy as usual, and haven't been able to catch up. Much love to you all!


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## Nillarilla

Sorry to hear about Owyn. Hope she's better quickly.
Gillian I hope the move goes well with no unexpected bumps.
Sending pregnancy and fertility vibes out there to all those who need them.

My poor girl has a flaming red diaper rash, a sore tummy and blisters on her bum. I think she must have gotten some gluten since dairy usually constipates her and right now we have diarrhea. When she has a reaction it seems to make her dipes stinkier. Can't quite figure out why or how to fix it because the stinky dipes seem to compound the diaper rash. I'm using rockin green so there shouldn't be any soap buildup. If she didn't get a rash from sposies I'd be tempted to switch.


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## mckittre

Mal - hope she feels better soon!

Best wishes to all the TTCers - may all your cycles straighten out soon!


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## Everrgreen

Oh Mama's I am so tired. I have not been sleeping well, just the stress of the move and I have a cold. In the past week I have had 3 nights of being up for 2+ hours in the middle of the night, plus last night I didn't fall asleep until around 1am and then woke up at 6am (on my own, Royce slept in til almost 8am). But I am in my new city now, going to be staying with friends until I get my stuff here. So I am going to take advantage of the help and try and get some sleep. I feel dizzy and nauseous









Sorry I just had to whine. I feel like I'm going to burst into tears but I know it's just the fatigue.


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: Hugs for you! I know just how awful moving is - even just down the street. But you're doing a huge move, with a baby no less. And you don't even have your stuff yet to make you start to feel settled. You have every right to feel stressed! I hope you can get a nap or two in. And keep your eyes on the prize - a fresh start, near your family!

Mal: Hope Owyn is better soon. Those darn doctor!

Nilla: I hope the diaper rash clears up. No fun!

Starling: No, the TTC problems are unrelated to the nursing problems. The nursing problems I brought on myself by getting breast implants at the age of 20. I SO regret that! No idea what's causing the hormone issues now. It's either the nursing, the mirena IUD I had or I have no idea what else.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Hugs Gillian! I hope you can get some rest! Moving is always so hard and I imagine that this move is even more emotionally draining on you. I hope you can get some good sleep tonight Mama!


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## Mal85

Hugs to you Gillian. Moving is so rough, but it'll be so worth it for you and Royce. Just think of all the fun you and him are going to have once you get all settled in!

We're having a bad day here. My SIL asked me a couple weeks ago if I would watch my two nephews today (the same nephews I used to watch regularly, but that ended badly). I agreed, thinking Fridays are my easier days so I could handle it. In the meantime, the other kiddos that aren't normally here on Fridays? Their parents ended up needing me today. So, I had way too many kids here!!! My 2 year old nephew is just VERY busy and aggressive. Which would have been okay without the other kids here... I could have watched him like a hawk. But with a little baby, a bigger baby, and 2 other toddlers... It's been on busy day! All the commotion made naptime a total disaster. My SIL was picking the boys up earlier in the afternoon (middle of naptime), so she'd asked me not to lay them down. But there was no way I could get the others to sleep if they were awake and playing. So, they took a short nap, which will probably ruin their afternoon at home and probably ticked my SIL off... but oh well.

I need a drink!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal (and Sue): I don't know how you daycare mamas manage! I've recently started doing a babysitting swap with a friend who's daughter is 2 months older. She watches Makenna for 2 hours while I go to yoga and then I watch her daughter later in the day. On the one hand, it's nice for Makenna to have a playmate but I have to be "on" the entire time she is here. Sharing issues and I feel like I have to entertain Charlotte - I can't just plop her down and go do something else like I might do with just my own. It's tiring. And it's only 2 hours. LOL.

Well I got another hormone test back and it is bad. My FSH levels are up - which can mean dimishing egg quantity and quality! I started freaking but I talked to an infertility dr who said it could be up bc I am still nurisng. I don't know that for sure though.

I've decided to wean!  and







Last night I asked M if we could skip na nas and she started crying so we nursed. Tonight I asked if we could read instead and she didn't bat an eye. We talked about not having na nas tonight and read her weaning book again. I have to see how it goes the next few nights, but if it is this easy, I will be shocked! But it will also tell me that she isn't so dependent on them anymore. I am sad to give this up and it's freeing at the same time. I've just had enough ups and downs with my hormone testing this week and come to the conclusion that I just cannot conceive while nursing. And I won't know if my body truly is messed up or if my hormones are off bc of nursing until I wean. And if my FSH level is elevated for a reason other than nursing, then time is of the essence and I can't be wasting any! It's been a tough choice but I think we are ready. It's been a long, slow process...we've been down to 1x/day for almost a month.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy, I'm so sorry for your news. Infertility really really sucks. It can be such a helpless feeling. I've been through the ringer emotionally myself. Feel free to PM me if you just want to vent or cry. It's hard. I hope that weaning helps with your hormone levels. It sounds like Mckenna is going to handle it just fine. And I do think that you should take hope that this will be the answer for you. I don't remember if you mentioned before... Was it difficult to conceive M?

Well last night I didn't nurse Fiona for the first time in her life! It went OK. I've been only letting her nurse for about a minute for over a week. The first time she woke up I was able to just put my hand on her and she fell asleep. The other time she tossed and turned and whined off and off for an hour before falling asleep. But she didn't freak out! When she woke up around 6 ish I let her nurse and we slept in till 8. I hope it continues to go smoothly and maybe we won't be up so long in the middle of the night. Of course this AM she's been a nursing fiend!


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## Mal85

to you Cindy. I really hope weaning helps you. It is really hard to see that relationship end... I can tell you from this side of it though, it really can be a good thing. It's been about 6 months since Owyn decided she was done with nursing and now I can hardly even remember what it was like having that be such a big part of our lives. It definitely is pretty freeing.

I decided if I go three months without a normal cycle, I'm going to go see the doc. It's been almost 2 months since I have had a period... not great when you're trying to get pregnant.







I don't really know what they will do for me though. I don't know how I feel about jumping right in with Clomid. Is there anything else out there that can... I don't know, kick start something?

Owyn was a flower girl yesterday for our good friends' wedding. She did so great!! We took her to the rehearsal on Friday and she loved it, but there were no chairs set up or anything, so she thought we were just there to play outside. I was afraid she'd freeze when she saw all the people there at the wedding, but she was actually pulling the other kids down the aisle! My friend's 4 year old nephew and my other friend's 2 year old daughter both wanted to stop and stare/talk to people on the way down. But Owyn had them by the hands and was pulling them along! Until she spotted me towards the front, then she let go and took off after me. It was pretty darn cute!!

Cutest part of the weekend was at the reception. They had a band playing and Owyn was boogy-ing her little heart out! Spinning in circles, then she would throw herself on the floor and strike a pose! Whenever a song ended, she would run up to the stage yelling "Where'd it go? Where'd it go?" So adorable!!


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## mckittre

Cindy - Sorry to hear you're still having trouble, and crossing my fingers that the weaning solves your hormone problems! It must be a kind of bittersweet thing. On the other side of it, I'm looking at nursing for years into the future most likely (with the new one, and with Katmai for some portion of it), and although I like having that relationship, there would be something nice about being done.

Mal - that sounds so cute! Katmai still doesn't dance or sing to music at all, though he likes us to sing to him as he's going to bed.

AK - hope the nightweaning continues to go smoothly. It hasn't been too bad for us, but in some ways I miss being able to nurse him to sleep - it can take forever these days, and naps are hit or miss whether I can get him down at all.

Gillian - hope you got a chance to rest, moving is hard!

I took Katmai to the pool for the first time in several months yesterday, and he did surprisingly well (for a kid who detests baths, is scared of showers, etc...). He didn't freak out, blew bubbles when I asked him to, and when it was time to go, he had a mini fit. "Not go out pool! Just stay in pool! Not pool close! Just stay open!"


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## starling&diesel

*Gillian* ... Fingers crossed that you're feeling more rested and that the move is going well?

*Mckittre* ... We went swimming this morning too. Esmé loves the pool! She loves jumping off the edge. We have a hard time leaving too, but it helps that we're allowed in the hot tub, which makes a good transition. We were going to go last week, when the pool was first re-opened after the annual month long maintenance closure, but when we got there the kid's pool was still closed because of a pump problem. That sent Esmé over the edge! "Mé Mé go swimming! Go inside! Diaper off, Mama! Swimsuit ON NOW!" It was ugly. Thankfully Family Place (subsidized parent/tot centre) was open so we went and made playdough snails (snails being her current obsession) and that saved the day!

*AK* ... Good luck with the night weaning! I'm going to say that it's going well here, even though if I do I'm probably going to jinx it. We've had about a week of no night nursing. I don't attend to her at all at night. My partner does, so that's helping. I don't even verbally engage. I just lay there while she and DP sort it out. Last night was hard though. She was crying for num-nums and leaned over and hugged me and whispered, "Just a little bit num-nums please, Mama? Just a little bit?" Awwww, break my heart!

*Mal* ... How about acupuncture? I think I'm going to do that pre IVF transfer this time. I hear that it works WONDERS.

What about you, *Cindy* ... ever done acupuncture to help with fertility?


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## justKate

Wow, your little ones sound so much more mature than Aubrey! (I know it's not a race, but still!) Still no sentances, really--unless "nigh night daddy" counts... but i don't think it does, because there's no verb.... She still uses grunts and whines most of the time, even though she definitely understands most everything. I thought her language skills would pick up now that she's in an older toddler class at daycare, but apparently not. I'm trying to focus on our next move--seven more months and then I can quit my job!!

Fertility-wise, I'm so ambivalent. Days like today, reading your posts, makes me want to just "whatever" it...Aubs would be, ah, 30 months at least, that's 2.5 yrs. old... But she's SO high needs, its painful. What if the next one is the same? I don't want to cosleep with two.... What if we have secondary infertility issues? Do we really want kids in the house when we're in our 50's?









Off to lurk in the Family Planning forums....


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## AKislandgirl

Kate: It's not a race! And by the way even though Fiona uses sentences she also grunts and whines a lot. I've been trying to teach her to say "I want that" but she'd rather say, "ugggh!" I've been meaning to ask you how Aubs has been doing since you started some of the sensory processing work. I think you were doing body brushing and using a weighted blanket? Do you see any changes?

Oh Mama's... Last night was so hard. Fiona was so upset about not nursing and woke up so many times I lost count. She didn't cry for long stretches but it was the waking up crying over and over again that killed me. I felt like a terrible mom for making my baby cry and not giving her what she wants. But she didn't nurse until 5:30 (6:00 is my goal but close enough) and did fall back asleep. This is so hard. I told myself in the night, "either you stick with this or you nurse her now and leave weaning all up to her." I know it doesn't have to be that extreme but I feel like I can't stop and start, stop and start. It's either do it or don't. I'll be nursing her off to college! I really hope this gets easier.


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## Everrgreen

AK - I'm sorry you had a rough night with Fiona








Maybe she's just not ready yet? I don't think it has to be now or never. I have tried the whole 'no nursing until morning' thing, but Royce really doesn't get it. I can't explain to him why he can't nurse at night (because, well, 'they' are right there!) The only thing I can do is try and get him to fall asleep without it (back rub, cuddles, or pretending to be sleep and hoping he doesn't freak out). But if he does freak out, then he nurses. I figure eventually he will understand an explanation of why he can't nurse at night and I'm also hoping that he'll get more and more used to just going back to sleep without it.
Okay, I'm not sure if any of that makes sense. Sorry to ramble and I guess it's not the best advice.

justKate - I feel the same way, no worries! I read things here and think, wow, Royce still seems like such a BABY compared to all these other toddlers. I think for us it's just the lack of talking that makes him seem so much more immature. Lately the only word he really says is 'mama' and he uses that for EVERYTHING, whether it is 'I need help' 'I want that' 'I'm hungry' 'I'm stuck' it's all just 'mama!' 'mama?' 'mama!' 'mama?' I think I might go crazy!

re swimming - I am planning on getting a ymca membership once I get settled. I did swim lessons last winter but didn't like it. But, by the end of the summer Royce was jumping into the pool and really enjoying the water, so I think I'll trying swimming again this winter.

Mal - Awww, that is cute!! Royce may have a job as ringbearer next spring/summer. They haven't set a date yet and it will probably be a destination wedding so we'll have to see how it all works out.

And big







s to all of you struggling to figure out your fertility. I've been there and I know how heartbreaking and frustrating it is.

Thanks for all the hugs ladies, I am feeling a lot better now. I still have the big move with all my stuff this weekend but I should have lots of help. One week from today it will all be done! We were over at our new place hanging curtains today after a trip to Ikea yesterday


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## justKate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Kate: It's not a race! And by the way even though Fiona uses sentences she also grunts and whines a lot. I've been trying to teach her to say "I want that" but she'd rather say, "ugggh!" I've been meaning to ask you how Aubs has been doing since you started some of the sensory processing work. I think you were doing body brushing and using a weighted blanket? Do you see any changes?

Things seem better, but its hard to tell if it's from the sensory stuff we do or just growing up. She still goes to sleep with the weighted blanket, but we gave up on the brushing. It was too hard to get her to sit still long enough to do it, then I would get half of her done and she would lose it, and i was afraid that doing half of her was worse than doing none.... so I gave up. We moved her swing on the back porch from hanging by two ropes to one rope with a swivel, so I think that has really been good for her. It's still warm enough to get outside every evening without a jacket, so we do that every day. And mostly I just bear in mind that when she asks for more hugs, she _needs_ them! Thanks for asking. Things are a million times better than they were six months ago.


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: So happy to hear you say things are a million times better than they were 6 months ago! 

Gillian: Glad you are feeling rested. It will be so nice to have curtains up and things all homey by the time your stuff arrives! You'll be way ahead of the game.

Sue: Sorry about the rough night. Just gotta stick it out and I promise you, it will get better. We had a rough week but it was so so worth it, in my opinion.

As for whether of not we had a rought time conceiving Makenna - nope. It wa 6 months of not using birth control but not actually trying to get prego. We were still pretty early in our relationship so we were doing what you need to do to get pregnant pretty often but we didn't live together yet so our timing wasn't perfect. 6 months is average. I never thought I'd have problems!! I'm still hoping they are just from the nursing!

Didn't nurse again yesterday. Makenna asked once and I said how about we read instead. She ended up crying bc she was so excited to read and she had to go put her jammies on first...wasn't crying about nursing! My DH was floored by how little she minded. He wasn't around to see it the night before.

Makenna has learned the word and context of "funny". It's so funny to see what she finds funny! She tells me lots of things are funny. 

Cindy


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## mckittre

As far as talking and maturity, I think it's kind of like walking. When Katmai was 12 months (and not walking), the babies who started walking at 10 months looked so grown up! But then a few months later, you can't tell the difference. I suspect talking is the same sort of thing.

Kate - Glad things are going better for you! I don't know that having one difficult baby makes you any more likely to have another one. In fact, I sort of have the opposite worry - Katmai was so easy that I'm sure I'm doomed to have a little terror with this next one.

AK - sounds like a rough night. Have you tried offering her something else instead of nursing? With Katmai, telling him what he could have (a sippy cup of water, a song, etc...) seemed to help distract him out of that crying to nurse.

Of course, we're still having plenty of trouble getting him to go to sleep at night, and lately he's insisted on having my husband sleep in his little bed with him most of the night... Sleep never seems easy for any parent, I guess.

How are naps going for other folks? We seem to be stuck in a rut where we can't get him to nap more than every other day. He'll refuse, then either stay up all day, or crash at 4, 5, 6PM and we have to wake him up 15 minutes later or risk having him up until 12.


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## Nillarilla

AK with the weaning does Fiona have a blankie/lovey or some such thing? That made the transition easier with both my kids. I think the crying is normal and I think they cry because they don't really know another way to soothe themselves at that moment so of course they are going to be upset that things have changed and their normal comfort is not available. That's why the blankie and my kids also had pacifiers. So I would replace the paci and give the blankie and after a few nights that worked and works from then on. Sounds like she may need a new sleep association or reinforcing another one that works. Sometimes changing the routine entirely when we needed to omit something was necessary. Because if they expect the nursing after the jammies or book they are going to be upset but if you make a new routine then there are no expectations ya know? I agree that going back and forth on it would probably be confusing for her.

Justkate glad to hear that things have improved.


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## Vegan Princess

McKittre: Right now, for today, naps are great. Makenna needs me to hold her hand until she falls asleep but she is pretty willing to lay down at least. Sometimes she goes right to sleep and some days she has to wiggle a lot and tell me various things before she can settle down. Today she slept 2 hours and 35 minutes! Yesterday was 2 hours! Must be growing. Usually it is an hour and 15 or so. We had a stretch about a month and a half ago where she refused to nap for about a week. I ended up walking her in the stroller for hours a few of those days to get her to sleep and keep her asleep. But then she gave that up and went back to napping. Hopefully Katmai is just in a phase. But I also know that I dropped my naps around this age (as did my brother and sister) - so I am always afraid that is going to happen!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks Mama's. I realize I shouldn't write and complain about the night before I've had my coffee. Fiona did wake up a lot last night. Tons of times. And she'd cry and whimper but only for a moment or so and then I could get her back asleep. What was hard last night was that she woke up so many times. I think she's actually handling the not nursing part better then I would have expected. All day today she's been telling me her mouth hurts and hasn't eaten much which tells me those last molars are probably coming. How's that for great timing on my part?!







I'll see how tonight goes and continue to comfort with rubbing her back and singing. If she really freaks out, I'll nurse her but cut her short as I've been doing up until last night. I suspect it will be just more waking a lot. She has never had a lovey or paci or anything. She loves her babies but not for comfort. Hoping tonight goes better. I'm still nursing her in bed just before she falls asleep. No plans to cut that out.

Naps: sometimes she wants to skip it but falls apart if she does. If it gets to be around 2:30 and she hasn't napped I'll plop her in the stroller and take her for a walk. I can park the stroller in the garage where she finishes her nap off. Usually she's asleep within 10-15 minutes of walking and I walk a bit more just to enjoy the quiet and fresh air. We have a bike path just up the street which is the perfect nap route! The other thing I do sometimes is to take a drive with her. I'll drive out to the end of the road and back. Once home I just sit and read in the car or do some knitting. I don't do this too often because I like to get other things done during nap but sometimes it just has to happen. A trip through the coffee shop drive through first isn't out of the question either!









Kate: I'm so glad things are better! Yeah!


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## Mal85

Naps here go alright most of the time. She has been laying down on the couch next to me the last several weeks. I'll sit and read a book or surf the web while I rub her back. Most of the time she just lays down and goes to sleep. Sometimes she tries getting up, but will end up just sitting up to stay awake and fall asleep sitting up. Then, I can lay her down on a pillow. Once she's asleep, she will usually sleep about 2 hours... assuming my daycare girl doesn't wake up first. She's pretty loud when she wakes up and that usually wakes Owyn up. It was okay when Owyn was napping in her crib. But, her naps in the crib last about an hour and they're lasting twice as long on the couch, so I like it that way. She'll wake up every now and then, see me there or see me in the kitchen, then lay back down and close her eyes again.

We've been so busy this last month... with our friend's wedding, we also had their bachelor and bachelorette parties that DH and I were both involved in. Then, we had our trip out of town and Owyn spent the night at my parents after our friend's wedding last weekend. Halloween weekend, my ILs are treating us to a trip to Silver Dollar City. Then, two weeks after, I have my annual ladies Christmas shopping trip. Owyn will stay here with DH for the weekend. I feel like I've spent so much time away from her on the weekends, I'll be glad when things settle down again. We knew this busy time was coming, so in the months leading up, we never left her on the weekends, not even for a couple of hours, trying to spend as much time with her as possible. But I still have mommy guilt about being so busy now.


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## AKislandgirl

Last night was so much better. She's falling asleep quite quickly now after she realizes I'm still there and she can cuddle up to me. Still woke up more times then usual which I hope will wind down but I'm feeling so much better about this now. Phew! This is doable!

And drum roll please ladies.... Fiona has hit 20 pounds!


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## Everrgreen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
And drum roll please ladies.... Fiona has hit 20 pounds!

Way to go Fiona!! She sure is a tiny little thing! Are you and/or your dh small? Royce is approaching the 30lb mark which means I need a new carseat so I can keep him rearfacing.

Glad to hear your nighttimes are going better!

Naps are ok. He goes down really well for his naps (just nurses right to sleep). His nap starts around 12-1pm and lasts 1-2 hours. He does have the odd day where he won't go down at the usual time and then is very tired by dinner time. When this happens I prefer to keep him up and then just put him to bed early (like 7pm) if I can.


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## starling&diesel

Oh my goodness, I can't keep up!
I just wanted to let everyone know that I've been reading.

Did someone mention a *weaning book*? Or did I dream that?
If one of you fine mamas does indeed have a book about weaning to read to your toddler, FILL ME IN!

We have our first appointment with the RE tomorrow to start the process towards number two, and I'm guessing that he'll want me to stop nursing altogether. Which I won't do. But it would be prudent to take steps in that direction, I suppose.

Considering the drastic measure of a trip away for a couple of nights. But I doubt that would work. She'd be waiting at the door looking for her num-nums.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: I ordered this book. I really think it helped Makenna to understand that she wouldn't always nurse. We've had it for months. She calls is "no no na nas" - so she gets the concept that it means no more na nas. Good luck at your appointment! How exciting!!

Well Makenna didn't even ask to nurse last night. I am amazed. This has been a not traumatic event for both of us!

Cindy


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## Vegan Princess

BTW, I forgot to say - the book is short but to the point. It's the only one that exists! But a LLL leader once told me to make my own book. I wasn't creative enough to do it - but since you are an author...maybe you are up for the task. The you can use photos, etc. of Esme. 

Cindy


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## mckittre

I don't like to hear that they can drop naps this early - I'm afraid that's what Katmai might be doing, though I still keep trying to put him down. At least he goes to sleep more easily and at a better time (8:30 instead of 11) without them.

Lately, some of our nightweaning is going backwards. He's fine most of the night, then will wake up in the last couple hours and just scream for nursing. No matter what we offer, or if I or his dad go in, he keeps saying "just want nursing!" I've been sticking to my guns and not nursing until morning, but it's hard when he's so sad.

My mom just got him some of those chunky toddler lego-style blocks, and he's been having so much fun with them. Building towers and pushing them around the floor. For some reason he always says his towers are going to this other town that he likes the name of (he has no idea what it means).

My husband's making Katmai a new pair of soft waterproof neoprene booties, since he grew out of and wore out the ones he wore all summer. It's wet here this time of year.


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## AKislandgirl

Erin, I love that your husband makes Katmai's shoes!







PS. I just started reading a really good book about a couple that does a treck from Seattle to the Aleutians.







It's really good!

Fiona LOVES those duplo blocks. It's fun to see her progress from knocking towers down to building them. She loves to bring them to me and say very proudly, "Yook (look), I did it!"









Last night was our best night yet. She didn't even wake for the first time until 3:45. I haven't slept that long of a stretch since before she was born! I feel like a new woman! Ha! I am noticing that she's a bit more clingy and prone to meltdown during the days. I hope this "side affect" of night weaning is short lived. For the most part I'm really happy that we decided to do this. I think it will be good for all of us.

Starling, maybe you should write a book for all of us! We could insert names and pictures of our little ones in the right spots.







I really don't know how long I'll nurse Fiona. Part of me want to do child led weaning but I also don't know what Clomid will do to my supply. It's considered "safe" but I also have some reservations at the back of my head about nursing while taking it. Hmm...

Hope the RE appt goes well today!


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## justKate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
And drum roll please ladies.... Fiona has hit 20 pounds!


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
Way to go Fiona!! She sure is a tiny little thing! Are you and/or your dh small? Royce is approaching the 30lb mark which means I need a new carseat so I can keep him rearfacing.









Go Fiona! Aubs is hanging steady around 22 lbs. We haven't done a WBV for a while







although I intend to at ~2yrs. We delay/selectively vax, so I need to research what/when I want to give her more shots and why before we see the doc again so that I don't look like an idiot. And I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Gillian, I'm glad you brought up the carseat issue. Aubrey has a ways to go in her seat RF, weight-wise, obviously, but I don't want to completely forget about it. She's in a TrueFit and a Boulevard--I think they're both 33 or 35 lb. limits RFing. I'd like to keep her RF forever, but I'm not sure how Huz will feel. At some point, it won't be worth the argument, but we're definitely not to that point yet. I wish I had known about the 45 lb. seats before i bought these. I could have gotten her just one and made do until they came out. Oh well!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starling&diesel* 
Did someone mention a *weaning book*? Or did I dream that?
If one of you fine mamas does indeed have a book about weaning to read to your toddler, FILL ME IN!

No weaning book, but I'd love to hear about a "move your toddler to her own bed" book. Aubs' crib mattress is on the floor in our room, but her bear sleeps in it.







I'm ready to have my bed back, but I have no idea how to start moving her because she thinks of our bed as her bed. She has her little pillow between ours and when she gets in bed at night she points to each one and says "mama, daddy, aubwee!" It's going to be hard.

Today I went to Joann's and got 7 patterns for $0.99 each! I'm making everyone pjs for Christmas. I'm really excited about it because that's all I feel like doing...the gift giving is just getting out of control so I'm going to quit and just make gifts from now on. At least this year.

Hmm, what else. I finally loaded pictures from the camera on to my work computer so I'm going to put some in my profile. Hope you all have a great weekend!

ETA: Starling, you should definitely write AP mama books, if that's your thing. Honestly I don't remember what sort of writing you do...it could be neuropharmacology or something?!


----------



## AKislandgirl

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 
Way to go Fiona!! She sure is a tiny little thing! Are you and/or your dh small? Royce is approaching the 30lb mark which means I need a new carseat so I can keep him rearfacing.


I'm pretty average and DH is average height but pretty skinny. He says she gets her build from him and her fiestyness from me!







I also think that her gluten allergy plays a role in her weight. Since having her off of the gluten she has been gaining at a more steady rate.


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## Mal85

Nice to hear from some mamas, it seems like it's been a while since we've had any posts.

Owyn's weight has always been on the lighter side. She's 23 lbs as of her last WBV a few weeks ago. I'm confident we'll be able to keep her rear-facing for quite some time considering how slowly she gains. She had dropped quite a bit in percentiles when she was around a year (coincidentally, the same time she started big time on solids and dropped nursing. Go figure.) But she has gone from the 30th percentile to the 50th in a matter of 6 months. So, that's good.

She's riding in a True Fit right now and I am hoping to keep her rear facing until she's four (when the spinal cord fully forms). I'm thinking if she hits the 35 lb weight limit before that, she will be at least 3-3.5. That might be close enough for me by then. I've already started shopping around for a car seat for number two. I'd like to get something with a higher weight limit just in case the next baby is bigger than Owyn. I'm thinking we'll borrow a bucket for the first couple of months (ours was lent out to a friend and the handle broke while they were using it). Then, just move up to the convertible. I hated carrying that bucket around once Owyn was more than a couple months old.


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## starling&diesel

*car seats* ... we have a sunshine britax, if I remember correctly. We have it rear-facing and have a long ways to go before we have to worry about turning it around. Other paramedics see my carseat and ask how old my kid is, I tell them, and they laugh at me for still rear-facing her. I tell them to go do the effing research (it's a swear-filled culture) and not one has come back to me yet to argue any further. :









*family bed* ... I hear ya, Kate. Esmé has a floor bed in 'her' room (really Grandma's sleepover room when she's here to take care of Esmé) and has ZERO intention of ever moving into it. I'd love to get a King. Especially if our family grows! I think eventually we'd switch rooms and give the kids the master and just use the smaller room as a family bed room.

*books* ... I'd love to do kids books on all kinds of AP subjects, but alas, they have to get in line behind my other projects. My publisher wouldn't be that excited about me moving in that direction. I write novels for teens at the mo.

*doc visit* ... Holy smokes! We're doing it! Scheduled for a Frozen Embryo Transfer the first week of December if all goes well with the cycle, the hysteroscopy, the thaw, the transfer, the bloodwork, etc. The RE told me to wean "immediately." I nodded and smiled and made sure a prolactin check was on the lab req and left with no intention of weaning cold turkey. I am not that parent. I've made the decision to limit the nursing though, with an aim to be weaned by two. We managed only three sessions, and all of them were under five minutes. I've started singing the ABC song as the signal that 'num-nums' are going to go bye bye. She's not taking it well, but I'm pretty sure that I'm taking it harder. I'm trying to be strong. But I just want her to nurse as long as she wants. It is time for some limits though, so that I can give this FET a chance. If this one doesn't work, we'll wait until May to try again. That way, E will be well past two and weaning might be a bit more bearable for the two of us.

We're putting in two embryos. Gulp. Chances of twins: 15%. Would you do it?


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: Hugs! The thought of weaning is probably the hardest part. :-( Weaning in 4 months is a good goal though. I first put M on a schedule - wake up, mid morning, before nap, after nap, mid afternoon and before bed. Then started dropping sessions. Putting her on the schedule was the hardest part! As for the twins. Yes, I would do it. I reallllllllllly don't want twins! But I've been pondering this a bit with the possibility of having to do fertility treatments in my future. And I would much rather have 2 babies than no more babies! I asked hubby which he would prefer and didn't get an answer. I think he'd prefer 2? I met a woman this weekend with 19 month old twin boys. She said she does not reccomend it at all. And she warns her friends doing fertility treatments to be careful. My dad is a twin and my grandma has nothing good to say...but that was the 40s - she had twins in a studio apartment in manhattan, hung diapers to dry inside the apartment and had little help from her husband (not the cuture back then). On the other hand, my friend has 6 month old twin boys and she has lucked out - it almost seems she has an easier time with her 2 than I did with my 1! I saw a woman wearing twins today - one on front and one on back. It made me smile! Anyway, soooo excited for you!!! And didn't you only put 1 in w/Esme? Why are you changing your mind this time?

Carseats: We have a britax marathon. Still rear facing. I get tempted to turn her but I doubt we will any time soon.

Cindy


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## mckittre

starling: Yay! How exciting. Hopefully you don't have to wean her entirely right now, but if you do, I'm sure she will be fine. And if it works, there's no reason you can't keep nursing while pregnant, right? (unless you don't want to - it's definitely less comfy at times). Twins would scare me, but a 15% chance isn't super high.

AK: I think Katmai is 21lb 13oz right now, which is about the same, percentile-wise as Fiona (boys are generally heavier). I have occasional worries about it, but he eats well, seems healthy, and my mom has told me I was a very skinny toddler as well. I haven't taken him for a checkup since 15 months, but they weren't worried about it then either. I just try to be thankful - much easier to hike while 7 months pregnant with a light toddler than a heavy one!

Kate: Do you have any overnight trips planned in the near future? We moved Katmai from our bed right when we returned from our last expedition. He was cosleeping on the trip, but not in our familiar bed, so he didn't seem to mind not going back? It was much easier than I expected. He still needs someone to lie with him to go to sleep, but doesn't often ask to come in our bed, and is fairly easily dissuaded when he does.

car seats: I'm probably the only one with a forward-facing kid. I do put him backwards for car trips on highways if we travel out of state. But it's hard to get worked up about 3 miles on a not-too-busy gravel road a few times a week (which is the extent of our car trips around here). In fact, I probably live in the only place I know where people don't always remember seatbelts, and small kids are sometimes held on laps if folks are carpooling.


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## starling&diesel

Cindy ... last time we put in two and were pregnant with two for about eight weeks. Lost the second one. And I have to say that I was relieved. But now that I know how we are at this whole parenting thing, I would be sad to lose a babe, even if there was another one in there.
We're pretty good at bringing up kids! So far, anyway. DP is totally awesome, which I wasn't sure about before the actuality. She's a natural parent, and is so giving and loving and excellent with Esmé. She'd love twins. Me, I'm more worried about the dangers of a multiple pregnancy, and my pre-e.


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## Everrgreen

Quote:


Originally Posted by *justKate* 
Gillian, I'm glad you brought up the carseat issue. Aubrey has a ways to go in her seat RF, weight-wise, obviously, but I don't want to completely forget about it. She's in a TrueFit and a Boulevard--I think they're both 33 or 35 lb. limits RFing. I'd like to keep her RF forever, but I'm not sure how Huz will feel. At some point, it won't be worth the argument, but we're definitely not to that point yet. I wish I had known about the 45 lb. seats before i bought these. I could have gotten her just one and made do until they came out. Oh well!

Royce is in a boulevard, which here in Canada has a 30lb rfing limit. I don't think a 40 or 45lb rfing limit seat was even available in Canada when I was carseat shopping. It wasn't until this year that Radian raised the limit to 45lb (in Canada at least). And I'm pretty sure he'll hit 30lb before he's even 2, so he definitely needs a new seat. I'm going to order the Radian XT.

Royce has had a rough couple of days. On Thursday he fell on the pavement and has a big mark on his forehead and nose, then yesterday he fell (actually threw himself to the ground in a tantrum







) and has a bruise beside his eye, also yesterday he did something to his ankle (rolled it, I think) and wouldn't walk on it and was crying, then later he started walking but had a limp







He seems okay today though, poor baby! Still has the bruises on his face though.

It's our moving weekend! So much to do today and tomorrow. I can't wait til it's DONE!

Okay, toddler crawling on me, gotta go


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## Vegan Princess

Good luck this weekend Gillian! I'll be thinking about you. And poor Royce. Thank goodness they are resillient. I took M to one of those play cafes where you can supposedly relax and have coffee and let your kids play. Well about 10 seconds after I sat down (right next to her play area, like 5 feet away - not even at one of the tables), she got her head stuck between two things!! had a nice mark under her eye for lots of the day. The place was so crowded and awful bc of the rain. After having to keep kids from pushing her down, multiple times, I finally asked for my money back.

Starling - I sort of forgot about the drama of carrying twins. My friend made it to 37 or 38 weeks then started to get pre-e. She was on bedrest (modified) for the last month or 2 as well. My grandma never even knew she was carrying twins and I don't think she had any issues from it - but they really never knew back then. You'd definitely have a more medical oriented birth experience. My friend opted for a c-section, even though she is a midwife (a medically oriented midwife who works in a hospital, not a homebirth midwife) - didn't want to risk the delivery bc one was breech.

Hoping the rain clears here so we can go to the pumpkin patch. Makenna is SO into pumpkins this year. We love taking walks and finding all the decorated houses. I put up some halloween decals on our window and she loves taking them down and rehanging them then gets super excited when she sees them from outside and says "Nenna did it!". So fun to see her enthusiasm!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Good luck with the move Gillian. Poor Royce!

Starling, yeah! I'm so excited for you guys. I'd definitely do the two embryos. Twins would be intense but you can do it! I know that its hard to imagine what pregnancy would be like but maybe you would be just fine and not have the Pre-E issues. I think about twins as well due to fertility drugs. Sometimes I think since we got one last time surely we are pushing our luck and will get 2 this next time around. I think the thing I would be sad about is giving up my dream of a home birth. But in the long run it would mean having two beautiful babies! How amazing would that be? December is right around the corner! I'm so excited for your family!

We went to the 4-H pumpkin sale at the fairgrounds today. Fiona loved it. We picked out two big pumpkins but she kept trying to pick up more saying, "just one more pumpkin. Oooh heavy!" it was fun! Then this afternoon we went to a friends 2nd birthday. He had a radio flyer trike which she loved. She still was a bit small but could get it going on her tiptoes. Makes me think about Christmas. She's crashed out now at 4:30 but she needed her nap. It's the weekend so no matter about staying up late tonight.

Our car seat is a britax boulevard. I'm pretty sure its a 35# limit for RF. I can't imagine how old Fiona will be at 35 pounds! I think we will be good for a long while with this seat. I'm guessing height will be more of an issue then weight for her. Still a long ways to go for that too. Isn't it one inch of head space?


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## mckittre

Gillian - Poor Royce! I can still see the little scar on Katmai's nose from when he fell face first down metal grating steps over a month ago. Glad your move will be done soon.

starling - I guess I forgot about the pregnancy drama with twins too (I was just thinking about the 2 babies part). I'd be scared too, but hopefully it all works out OK, whatever happens.

I got a pumpkin for Katmai too, and he picked out a pumpkin costume from Salvation Army. Maybe we'll try carving it tonight, and see what he thinks of an actual jack-o-lantern.

My brother's coming to visit me here for the first time tomorrow! (I've seen him down in Seattle, but he hasn't made it up to AK before). Should be fun.


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## AKislandgirl

mckittre: have a great visit with your brother! I love having family visit!

Ladies, I never thought I would be able to post this... BUT Fiona slept through the night! From 10-6 without a peep! Nursed a little at 6 and fell back asleep until 8.














Will it continue?... I do not know, but I'll take it when it does happen!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Yay!!!! I bet it will be the new trend. Night weaning is SO worth it! I never throught M would sleep through the night either but it is her usual thing now. And I know it never would have happened as long as I was still nursing her through the night. You must feel fabulous!

We went to the pumpkin patch yesterday. Makenna LOVED it. Had to try to touch all the pumpkins. Loved the hay pyramid and maze. And it was an old time farm as well so we got to check out all the animals. The chickens seemed to be her favorite this time. We do have a "little farm" nearby with almost every kind of animal (no horses) but we haven't been in a few weeks. Makenna kept asking to go back to the pumpkin patch this morning.

Cindy


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## justKate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *starling&diesel* 
*We're putting in two embryos. Gulp. Chances of twins: 15%. Would you do it?
*
*
*
*
I would definitely do it. I've decided that we will probably only add one more (eventually), so a twin pg would just be more bang for the buck--and then we would definitely be done. Stressful, yes, but I'm sure it would be rewarding in some ways too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by Vegan Princess 
I took M to one of those play cafes where you can supposedly relax and have coffee and let your kids play. Well about 10 seconds after I sat down (right next to her play area, like 5 feet away - not even at one of the tables), she got her head stuck between two things!!

Ugh, the head-stuck scenario! Aubs got her head stuck between the legs of a stool at the consignment shop last week. It was a bad mom moment for me, because I had turned to look at something and she went behind the counter and got her head under the clerk's stool...then started screaming and I couldn't help but laugh.... Other moms were giving me the evil eye, but geez, it was hilarious. And she wasn't hurt, so I count it as a lesson learned.









Quote:


Originally Posted by AKislandgirl 
Ladies, I never thought I would be able to post this... BUT Fiona slept through the night! From 10-6 without a peep!









I bet you feel great too--congrats!

Will be back shortly to post more....

************************************************** ****
I can't figure out how to add photos in my profile. I have two in there, but every time I try to add more it says "upload failed." I wonder what's up with that.

So last night, Aubs wakes up at like 3:00 a.m. saying "milk...milk...milk..." in a sad little voice. I didn't have anything handy to give her, so I said "shh... nigh night time, mama nigh night..." and pretended to sleep and she went back to sleep after about 5 minutes.







So this morning she woke up again and wanted milk right away, which I got for her. Would you all have gotten up in the middle of the night to get her milk? My plan was to get up if she kept at it, but she went back to sleep so.... Now I feel bad. Guess I should make an effort to have a cup in our room in case she's thirsty at night. Mean, mean mama!







*


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## kayleesmom

new here. but my son jack was born feb 8-2009 and is #3 for us and our last. I nursed him till 1 year when he weaned himself. i took it really hard. and now that he is 20 months i really wish he had nursed longer as my 1st was on hypoallergenic formula and i was scared away from nursing by other people when pregnant with her. and really wish i had listened to my dad and stepmom and at least tried it with her. but nope i was stupid. and then for my 2nd daughter i tried nursing in hospital nursed her 3 times. and the pumped and then 2 wks later i got her to latch with consultant and then nothing after that for latching but i did pump exclusively till she was 9 months. and then my son was from birth. I am stay at home mom.


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## justKate

Hi kayleesmom.









I didn't realize you had a Feb '09 baby too! Aubs weaned around 17 mos., and it was a great relief for me. My goal initially was six months so I figure anything beyond a year is an accomplishment. It's funny to me that some of us here on MDC feel guilty about not nursing to 2 years, or not CLW (me included), when in the "real" mainstream world everyone is intentionally weaning at 6 months or something. We rock.


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## Mal85

Welcome kayleesmom! My daughter weaned herself when she was somewhere between 13 and 14 months as well. I had planned on nursing her for two years, but one day I realized I was fighting with her about it more than either one of us was enjoying it. So, I stopped offering it and she never asked for it. Shortly after that, she nightweaned herself and started sleeping through the night. I was sad to see that relationship end earlier than I'd planned, but talking to the other mamas on here and hearing how some of them struggle with nightweaning and being tired of nursing... I am glad we bypassed some of that.


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## mckittre

welcome kayleesmom! There's definitely downsides to the longer nursing as well. My little guy is still going strong, and as I'm preparing for #2 showing up in a couple months, I really wonder how the tandem thing is going to go.

Sue - Yay for sleeping through the night!

Katmai's just gotten into a much better sleep phase too. He'll go to sleep with dad with fairly little fuss at 8:30 or 9, sleeps in his own bed (once dad slips away), and sometimes wakes up once or twice in the night, but sometimes not at all! (until he wakes at 7:30 crying desperately for nursing). I wish he'd wake happier though - he's so sad when he wakes up.

We got a nice day to go hiking with my brother on Tuesday in the fresh snow on the ridge, but now it's raining again. I wish it would hurry up and snow already! There's snow less than 1000 feet above us.


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## AKislandgirl

welcome kayleesmom! Glad to have you join us! We have a great group of Mama's here that check in often! I love our DDC!









I jinxed it! She hasn't slept through since. But I know she has it in her! Someday I hope to sleep more, someday! But the nightweaning has gone great. I can just rub her back and she falls asleep quickly. I'm really happy to have made that step.

Well, aunt flow did show last week. Another long cycle. We have a newly trained mayan massage therapist in town. I'm going to call today to book an appt with him. Also I'll be making a Dr. appt to get the initial blood work done to start the fertility treatment process. We have to decide what dose to start the clomid. Last time I didn't ovulate until I was on the highest dose. So it was several months of taking clomid and enjoying lovely hot flashes and such without it even working. Of course with jumping in at the high dose we increase the chance of twins. Starling can we hold hands?! My gut feeling is to just do it at the high dose but DH isn't so sure. Hmm...


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## Mal85

I'm really hating this TTC thing. I never really tried the first time around, so it sucks waiting. AF did finally show. I was glad to finally have one after 2 months, but bummed at the same time. I had the plan of going to the doc to see what was up if I didn't start or get a positive test by November. Now, I'm starting the waiting over again. I'm hopeful though... really hoping to get pregnant before Christmas!


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## starling&diesel

Hi Kayleesmom! Welcome to the DDC!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Of course with jumping in at the high dose we increase the chance of twins. Starling can we hold hands?! My gut feeling is to just do it at the high dose but DH isn't so sure. Hmm...

I would love to have a hand-holding buddy on this TTC rollercoaster ride!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
Now, I'm starting the waiting over again. I'm hopeful though... really hoping to get pregnant before Christmas!

Here's hoping for a Christmas BFP for us all!
DP told me today that she's actually secretly hoping for twins.








Hmm. I told her that I am hoping against twins, and not secretly at all. It's not the actuality of raising twins ... I think that could be a blast. It's the pregnancy unknowns. I have to work on the ambulance up to 30 weeks if I want my full mat benefits, and I know that the most dangerous time for twin pregnancies is in the early days.

We went to the aquarium today on our one day off together as a family. We had an awesome time! Our kids are at such a cool age, eh? It is so neat to see the world anew, with excitement for everything.

I'm reading all the posts, but having a hard time touching base with everyone. Know that I'm thinking of you all!


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: I agree! This is such a wonderous age. Now that Makenna is talking in sentences, it's such a blast to be privy to what that little mind of hers comes up with.

Mal and Sue: I'm sorry AF found you both! Sue, I hope the massage helps! Have you tried accupuncture? I know once we decide we want to get prego, we want it to happen yesterday. But perhaps it might be worth trying the low dose for at least a month and if it doesn't work, bring out the big guns. Better to have some patience and deal with some side effects for a few days than to have twins if you don't want them and possibly can avoid it.

I am waiting for AF to arrive. Not due for another week or so. Hoping the weaning will make things go back to normal but not overly hopeful that it will happen so soon.

I am happy to report that my boobs are almost the same size again (one was way bigger than the other)! LOL! I'm quite impressed with how they are shrinking up and my old bras fit, once again. That's a benefit of weaning!

Makenna is so into her friends these days! I started a babysitting swap with a friend from playgroup who has a daughter 2 months older. Makenna asks to go to her house or have her come over constantly. She just has so much fun around her friends now! Very sweet! It almost makes me wonder about preschool. Def. not going to do preschool for at least another yr and I don't know if we can really afford it at all with me home but we'll see. Probably a co-op preschool is what we'll go for so I can be involved and it is cheaper. I think she'll really love it when the time is right.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
Starling: I agree! This is such a wonderous age. Now that Makenna is talking in sentences, it's such a blast to be privy to what that little mind of hers comes up with.

Mal and Sue: I'm sorry AF found you both! Sue, I hope the massage helps! Have you tried accupuncture? I know once we decide we want to get prego, we want it to happen yesterday. But perhaps it might be worth trying the low dose for at least a month and if it doesn't work, bring out the big guns. Better to have some patience and deal with some side effects for a few days than to have twins if you don't want them and possibly can avoid it.

I am waiting for AF to arrive. Not due for another week or so. Hoping the weaning will make things go back to normal but not overly hopeful that it will happen so soon.

I am happy to report that my boobs are almost the same size again (one was way bigger than the other)! LOL! I'm quite impressed with how they are shrinking up and my old bras fit, once again. That's a benefit of weaning!

*Makenna is so into her friends these days! I started a babysitting swap with a friend from playgroup who has a daughter 2 months older. Makenna asks to go to her house or have her come over constantly.* She just has so much fun around her friends now! Very sweet! It almost makes me wonder about preschool. Def. not going to do preschool for at least another yr and I don't know if we can really afford it at all with me home but we'll see. Probably a co-op preschool is what we'll go for so I can be involved and it is cheaper. I think she'll really love it when the time is right.

Cindy

I've been watching my friend's two year old once or twice a week and Owyn is loving having another little girl here to play with! Every morning, she goes to the front door and says "Where Ry-ra?" (Lyra is her name.) And my friend said her little one gets up every morning, looks for her shoes and asks to come to Elmo's house (Owyn is Elmo







).

And she looooooves babies. She is always giving me things for the 3 month old I'm baby sitting. She'll bring me her binky, little toys I have out for her, etc. She loves when I lay her on the floor so she can swoosh the playsilks over her. The baby loves that too! It's so fun to see that nurturing side of her. Makes me so excited to see her as a big sister, she'll play that role so well!

Her favorite thing to do right now is nurse her babies. Two of my friends are nursing their little ones, so she sees it often. She carries around the same baby doll constantly, lifts her shirt and nurses every time she sits down. She's a great multi-tasker too. She nurses while she plays with Legos, argues with her friends, reads books, etc. It's adorable!


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## mckittre

I hope everyone who's trying gets pregnant by Christmas, and I hope I've had this baby by then, so I can have Christmas at home!

We've been trying to get Katmai together with some of the other little ones his age, but they still mostly just either ignore each other or steal trucks back and forth.








I still think it's good for him though - he needs to be comfortable with other kids.


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## justKate

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 
I am happy to report that my boobs are almost the same size again (one was way bigger than the other)! LOL! I'm quite impressed with how they are shrinking up and my old bras fit, once again. That's a benefit of weaning!

Mine are not.









I had an augmentation on one side 15+ years ago, and while they were about the same size when Aubs was born, the augmented side stayed bigger after she weaned. Oh well.

I stopped taking the pill last week. Not TTC, just quitting hormonal BC until I find something that doesn't make me feel sick/crazy/woozy/or bleed for 2 weeks. Also kinda hoping it would help me lose that last bit of weight i'm carrying. We'll see.


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## AKislandgirl

I'm loving this age too! Fiona loves the three year old I babysit. She often goes to the door and says, "Open, S___ coming". She thinks if I open the door where she usually comes from she'll magically appear. She gets soo excited when she arrives. They do fight a bit over toys but overall she loves her! S___ is really patient with her too.

But man oh man does this girl have an independent streak! She want to put her own clothes on and not that shirt I just picked out either. She'll refuse diapers and put on two pairs of underwear instead, which she just pees in by the way. Shoes... shoes are going to be the end of me! She is VERY particular about shoes. Sometimes she loves her boots and sometimes she hates them. Oh my!

Anyone else have a toe picker?! Fiona is so funny about her toes. She likes to sit and pick between her toes. The funny thing is she grabs mine or DH's (she prefers DH for this task) finger and directs us to pick her toes for her. Then she wants "sotion on it" (lotion). It totally cracks me up!

She is certainly making me laugh more and more these days!

Tonight is trick or treating in downtown Kodiak. I think its weird that it's not on Halloween but most places will be closed on Sunday. Downtown is really the only place with sidewalks so its safer for the kids. We are going to take Fiona to walk around and see all the kids. I think she'll like it for a bit (and she can score Mama and Papa a few pieces of candy!). I'll bring her some kind of treat too I think. I'm dressing her as a fairy!

Well I'm off... Fiona just told me "I'm hungry lunch". She means breakfast!


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mal85* 
Her favorite thing to do right now is nurse her babies. Two of my friends are nursing their little ones, so she sees it often. She carries around the same baby doll constantly, lifts her shirt and nurses every time she sits down. She's a great multi-tasker too. She nurses while she plays with Legos, argues with her friends, reads books, etc. It's adorable!









E does that too! She likes to pack one of her lovies into her carrier (old scarf) for a back carry, and then every few minutes she asks me to help go 'piggyfront' (her logical alternative to piggyback) so she can nurse. SO CUTE.

*Gillian* ... how's Royce?


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## Everrgreen

Royce has recovered from his injuries, although it's only a matter of time until the next one







He only had his limp for the one day, it was pretty sad though seeing him limping around.

I'm all moved into my new place now, it's been a busy week! I've popped in to read a couple times but didn't have a chance to reply. I'm still not completely settled but we're getting there.

Thinking about all your little toddlers playing mama is soo cute







Royce totally doesn't do any of that. He has a little doll, but he never plays with it, and if I give it to him he just throws it.

No playmates here. Royce is sort of starting to get into playing with other kids - especially older kids, when we are at the park he will watch them and try and copy, maybe even wander close to them. But we don't have any regular playmates that he knows/gets excited about.

I am also really loving this age. I've loved most of toddlerhood. I'm still learning how best to handle typical 'toddler' situations, but I think I do alright most of the time. It's tricky still having a mostly nonverbal toddler, there's so much guessing I have to do and I better do it quick or else! But he is awesome and fun and crazy and I love him









Okay, I'm sure I've missed a bunch of stuff to reply to. I hope everyone is doing well!!

And lots of good baby makin' vibes to all of you ttc'ers!!


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## mckittre

Katmai's way of "mothering" his little baby doll is to try to stuff it in too-big rubber boots, then get frustrated that it's floppy and will neither stand up or sit up when he tells it to. He'll be disappointed with the real newborn here as well, I fear.

He seems to have decided that since he can communicate, then everything (pets, people, inanimate objects) should obey his commands. It's really funny to listen to him talking to his duplo blocks as he stacks them "Not go fall over either! Just be tall!"

AK - Katmai doesn't seem to have particular clothing preferences, except that he never seems to want any clothes changed at all. Would rather go naked outside, keep his coat and boots on inside, etc...


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## Mal85

Happy Halloween Mamas!

We've had a very busy weekend here. We took a trip to Silver Dollar City in Branson, MO with my ILs this weekend. Owyn loved it! She rode one carnival ride. I wasn't sure she'd want to since she cried at the carnival rides we tried a couple of months ago. But, we sat and just watched them until she walked over to the line, wanting to get on. It was a froggy ride that bounced gently while going around in circles. She really liked it, until we got a bigger bounce. Then, she fussed but only for a second and seemed to enjoy the rest of the ride. But she didn't want to go on any others!

She just loved people watching and having her grandparents dote on her like they always do. DH and I loved having the ILs there with us, because we got to go ride the big roller coasters while they stayed and played with her in other parts of the park. We made it through almost 7 hours at the park with no meltdowns and she even napped in her stroller for a good hour and half. So, it was a very successful day!

We got home this afternoon, but only got to be home for about 10 minutes before heading to my parents to join the cousins in getting ready for trick-or-treating. Owyn was an adorable fairy! I was pretty proud of the pieces I found around the house to make into a fairy costume. I only bought wings and a little headpiece I happened to find at Silver Dollar City yesterday. She loved trick-or-treating and handled the busy weekend so well! She's such a trooper. Our last stop was at my daycare girl's house to get a pic of them together in their costumes. That was when she started to meltdown because she wanted to stay and play with her toys and it was after bedtime so she was pretty tired.

AF is gone, so now we're back to the fun part of TTC







. Here's hoping we get some results! Hope you and all your little ones had a great Halloween!


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## mckittre

Mal - sounds like fun!

Hope everyone had a good Halloween!

We had a cold and snowy Halloween here. Katmai was a pumpkin. He was terrified of the haunted houses (we only went in one very mild one for 10 seconds), loved it when the ice cream shop gave him a free ice cream cone (which he clutched for dear life the rest of the night), and generally didn't get the concept of trick-or-treating at all. Every time we stopped at someone's house, he utterly ignored the bowl of treats they were offering, and tried to waltz right in!


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## justKate

Aubs did pretty well trick or treating. She would go up to the door, grab candy, and say thank you. We went with older neighborhood kids, so she was trying really hard to be "big."

Here are photos: My little Moo Moo
with her pumpkin
And Halloween a year ago!


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## Everrgreen

Awww so cute!!

Royce was a little monkey. He only wore the costume for about 10 minutes, then he wanted it off







But I got a few pics. We went to a 'Haunted Halloween' event a local heritage village the night before Halloween. It was fun but not really right for Royce's age. It was dark and there were so many people he ended up in the carrier on my back the whole time. We did get some popcorn though which was the highlight of the night for him







Then Halloween night we were at a friends to hand out candy.

Some pics:

Happy Monkey

Refusing to smile, but still cute

Oh and 1 more, why not! Halloween 2009

I've had a pretty awful couple of days. I found out on Sunday that my 'stbx' is apparently engaged to the young girl he had an affair with and ran off with. He hasn't seen Royce since mid August, has yet to pay any support, he has totally abandoned both of us. And now he's moving on to a new marriage. Less than a year after we separated. We can't even file for divorce until December and he's already got the next marriage planned. I have no idea what I did to deserve to be treated so horribly by someone who was supposed to be my best friend


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## Mal85

s: Gillian, you are right, you don't deserve any of that! I think about you and Royce often and admire how strong you are for him. I really hope moving closer to family helps you through all of this.

Now that Halloween is over, Christmas seems like it's just around the corner! I'm leaving next Friday for my annual ladies' shopping trip and hoping to get a good chunk of my Christmas shopping done. Need to get it done early so I can start setting money aside for my doula training workshop in January. I have to register by the end of the year. I am SO excited to be getting started on that! I've been doing my readings and thought I had set up a childbirth class that I could observe, but the girl teaching it hasn't been returning my emails, so it may be time to look for another class.









We finalized Owyn's Christmas list for next weekend's shopping. She is getting a play tent, one Little People set, Lego duplos, and some kind of stocking stuffer. Along with her PJs and ornament for Christmas Eve and the table/chairs set DH is building for her.

Yesterday my daycare girl's mom told me they are expecting baby #2! I'm feeling mostly







for them, but also a little







for me. This is the second person I know that has gotten pregnant since we started trying. Plus, her little one is only a month older than Owyn and I always thought it would be so neat if we had our seconds at the same time so they could be buddies as well. DH is feeling the pressure for this month!


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## AKislandgirl

Oh Gillian, I don't know where you find your strength. You are such an amazing strong Mama! I can't even imagine what you must be feeling right now. You absolutely do not deserve any of this. Big hugs to you and Royce!


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## starling&diesel

Hi everyone ...
*Gillian* ...







s I hope that you have many real hugs coming from every direction in real life. You are a strong tree, and your roots reach deep. This is just the equinox gales come to knock off your autumn leaves to make room for spring growth. Hold fast, hon. Hold fast.

It's lovely seeing the littles all dressed up. I couldn't see Katmai though. I'm one of the few people in the world who doesn't have facebook. I'll check back when my DP is logged in. I bet he was a cutie too!

Here's Esmé in her glow-in-the-dark skeleton pajamas. That's her "Scarewee" pose.
She wore those pajamas all day! We tucked a fleece sweatshirt under for when she and DP did the rounds of the neighbours. She was thrilled to trick-or-treat, and was even more thrilled to come home and exchange all of her candy for a Schleich grizzly bear. Phew, dodged that candy monster!
She had a great time handing out candy to the "big kids" who came to the door. Every time the doorbell rang she ran to the door and hollered, "Hi big kids, what you doin?" What fun! We have a tight-knit block, so it was great to see everyone out on our blustery All Hallows Eve.









ps. I added a video of her playing her harmonica. If you go to the flickr link, you should be able to find it there. So cute!


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## Vegan Princess

Hi Mamas,

A quickie post from me. I tried to post halloween pics the other night and my post got deleted so I gave up. I'll post some later. I love seeing all of yours! They're all so adorable! I couldn't see katmai either - I am on a work computer that won't allow facebook (more on the work thing in a minute). I especially loved the monkey suit!

Makenna was a ladybug and LOVED her costume. She is still asking for and wearing it. And needing to look at pictures from the pumpkin patch and her playgroup halloween party every day!

Soooo...my old boss called last week and asked me to help him out this week. So I am working 3.5 days this week. Mostly from home. And Makenna is in daycare this week! She has done very well the 1.5 days she has gone. I might help my boss out a bit more if my replacement from when I quit goes on medical leave (he is sick, that's why I'm helping). But definitely won't be a long term thing. I am enjoying doing some work. It's odd to be home working without my sidekick. And I am very glad to be able to go back to giving her my undivided attention again...but the change is a bit nice for the time being.

Ok, back to work for me.

Cindy

PS: I almost forgot. Gillian, I am so sorry you have to deal with this. Best to have his presence out of your life now. I am truly sorry he hasn't seen Royce though. That breaks my heart. And I agree with Starling's eloquent words to you - you will be stronger for this and happier in the end! Good things await you on the other side.


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## mckittre

Gillian - lots of hugs to you! I can't think of any way that's anything but awful. And while you certainly don't deserve it, I know you and Royce are both strong enough to make it through.

Sorry about the facebook - it just seemed simplest to put the photos there.

We had our first real snowstorm (maybe 8 inches of wet snow) last night! Very exciting to see everything turn white, though I do wonder what I forgot to put away that got buried in the yard. After I finally wrestled Katmai into his snowsuit he had a good time - plowing right through thigh-deep drifts saying "no see feet. Now see feet!" with every step. Didn't like it when he fell down though, and wanted me to help him up.

What do you guys do about gloves/mittens on a toddler? I have thin cotton gloves that he likes wearing, but they don't offer much protection. Mittens don't let him do anything, so he doesn't like them.


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## AKislandgirl

I'm having the same mitten problem. She can't do anything with them on so won't wear them and her hands are freezing! We got our first snow last night too! Only a couple of inches but made everything look so pretty. My nieces is visiting and was so happy to see snow!

Remember how excited I was to find the hand me down winter boots in her size. She HATES them! Won't wear them. I think they are just too big and bulky. Even with wool socks her feet get cold in her rubber boots which she does love.(most days!) I don't know what to do about that. Hmm...








I do love that winter is coming though! I can't wait to get out snowshoeing this year. It has been a long time!

Loving the Halloween pictures. I need to get some loaded. Later today I'll do that! I look at the pictures and think, Oh my gosh they are getting so big! Then I look at Fiona and realize she is too!


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## Everrgreen

Thanks for the hugs ladies. I'm starting to feel better. It's just one thing after another. But I've survived so far, so I guess I'll keep surviving.

It hasn't been cold enough here to need big warm mittens, but I'm sure that will become a problem. I do have a pair of thin cotton ones that he is happy to wear and he can still use his hands with them on. But they definitely won't be warm enough for playing in the snow when it comes.

AK - Oh that sucks that she doesn't like her boots! Royce better like his! This may seem kind of mean, but can you just hide the rainboots while she's not around so her only option is the winter boots? That would work for Royce, but maybe he's more easy going when it comes to clothing.

We have snow in the forecast for this weekend, but probably only an inch. I'm sort of excited about snow coming, but I'm also dreading what a PITA it is.

Starling - omg I LOVE the 'Hi big kids, what you doin?' That is hilarious!

I think I will start Christmas decorating next week. I'm excited about it. So far Royce is getting: a playslide (from my mom), a roadmap rug and cars, some soft play fruit/veggies for his kitchen, and a little mini tool kit. He will also get something from other family members. The only other thing I want to get him is that little custom cape on etsy that I posted here about a long time ago, I still haven't ordered it, I should get on that. Althought that might be a birthday gift instead. Honestly, he has so many toys and he doesn't even play with half of them... but it's so hard not to buy for him


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## justKate

Gillian, I read your post on PAP about STBx, but I didn't know what to say.... It's so hard to think of you going through this, I mean, I feel like it could have just as easily been me, and that's a tough reality. You deserve so much better. You're doing exactly what I hope that I would be able to do in your situation. Stay strong.









Cindy, that's great that you can do some work from home. Sounds like a great set-up, even if it's just every now and then!

Hats and mittens--i skipped out of work for a little while today to shop for myself, and ended up just looking at hats and mittens for Aubs. I didn't get anything, because we're just getting to the point where they're needed. Well they're not really needed yet, but so cute! So far Aubs has only worn her little fleece hoodie for a coat, and it's plenty warm. I think the low so far has been like 60 during daylight hours. As far as keeping mittens on, I saw these things at one of the stores that looked like they were designed to clip the mittens to the sleeves--they were like a small suspender with clips on both ends. Kind of like those things people use to clip pacis to their babies?

Christmas--so far, I've just collected little things. I did order the eggs from etsy that you suggested, Mal. They're AWESOME. I'm going to find a little 6-egg carton to put them in. Here's a photo from etsy. Not sure what else is in the works. I asked grandma to get her arts & craft stuff or bath toys. We'll see. I think Gma wants to get her a grocery cart. I've started making some clothing for her baby doll, although i'm not sure how that will go over since she doesn't really care for the baby doll. It's more of a fun thing for me to do, I guess.


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mckittre* 
Very exciting to see everything turn white, though I do wonder what I forgot to put away that got buried in the yard.

That's funny! Should make for an interesting spring.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl* 
Remember how excited I was to find the hand me down winter boots in her size. She HATES them! Won't wear them. I think they are just too big and bulky. Even with wool socks her feet get cold in her rubber boots which she does love.(most days!) I don't know what to do about that. Hmm...

What about Padgraigs with Stonz booties over them? That'd be super warm!

AFU: I had my hysteroscopy this morning and my uterus is looking great! So it's a go ahead for the IVF transfer in early December, so long as the lining is cushy enough for accepting an embryo at that point. I asked about my prolactin levels from the bloodwork done a few weeks ago, and it's super low, so I can nurse E for as long as I want at this amount and not negatively affect a pregnancy!


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: Yay! Gld to hear you can keep nursing!

I'm going to try to post the pics again. Here goes.

Mama & ladybug

About to trick or treat

Carving pumpkin

Lollipop

Cindy


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## mckittre

Quote:

I can't wait to get out snowshoeing this year. It has been a long time!
I got out snowshoeing for the first time since April yesterday. It was fun. But putting on snowshoes for the first time in 6+ months, strapping a toddler on my back, and heading straight up hill on an unbroken trail at 7.5 months pregnant was more of an expedition than I had bargained for. Katmai the slave driver insisted on going all the way to the "TV tower", so we stuck with it. It was fun though. I don't deal well with accepting the physical limitations of being pregnant.









starling - yay! glad everything's looking good.

Christmas: I kind of think folks will forgive me if I don't get around to doing much or anything this year (not that I'm that reliable anyway). If I get around to it, I'll make some jam for gifts before I head out to wait for baby in early December. And I hope to get back here with the baby in enough time to cut a tree and decorate it.


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## justKate

*sigh*

No one else to talk to about this, so sorry in advance for whining....

I've started charting. Since Aubs was born, I've had three periods (6/10, 8/10, 10/10). All different lengths, probably b/c I was messing around with BCPs. So about a month ago i quit BCPs and we've used withdrawal. My temps are everywhere. I'm on CD 30, had EWCM on CD 27-29. So bloated today I can't button my pants. Bleh, this is hard.

The last time I decided to try charting was June 2008--consistently high temps and a BFP before I even figured out what i was doing.







I'd like to figure it out before spring, so that I'm ready to TTC then. Maybe I need a better BBT thermometer? I think mine is the pink one from CVS or something.

Double bleh.









Sorry for the whine.


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## AKislandgirl

kate, I understand. It's totally frustrating. I haven't started charting yet this time around but I do find that it is really helpful to get a picture of what is going on with your body. Do you have the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility? It is so good and should help answer a lot of your questions. And you can vent here anytime!

I've been super busy getting ready for the holiday bazaar this weekend. Thank Goddess my niece came to help! I couldn't have pulled this off without her. I don't know how WAH moms get anything done. Fiona has been extra clingy and needy it seems. Just when I'm trying to get a lot done. My niece is helping me pull it off though! My house has been taken over by hand dyed and painted t-shirts, scented play dough, play silks, and glitter gel! I'm having a blast but phew! This is hard work!

Night weaning: Fiona spent a couple of nights last week totally freaking out about not nursing after weeks of doing fine. Then she woke up with a cold so she has been nursing at night for the last week. Sigh! I'm feeling nursed out and then feel guilty for feeling nursed out. Ugh. We will try again once my niece leaves town. I don't need to subject her to sleepless night too.

Starling! I'm so excited to here that everything is a go! Woo Hoo!

Sorry if I haven't touched base with everyone. next week should be calmer! Wish me luck for sellling my crafts this weekend. I'm ecited to see what people think of my stuff.


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## Everrgreen

Kate -







I went through all of that stuff when ttc Royce. It was completely emotionally exhausting, just so hard. My first year off bc I only had 5 sporadic periods over the entire year (we weren't trying during this time), the second year it got a bit better but I was still having cycles averaging 45 days. I really found it helpful to chart my temperatures and pay attention to my cervical fluid. I always just used the cheap pharmacy bbt thermometer and it worked for me. I also tried different herbal remedies to try and regulate my cycles, I'm not sure if they really worked or not. Needless to say I will never use hormonal bc again! I hope your body gets things figured out soon!

AK - Sounds like you are quite busy! I hope you sell lots of stuff! Are you selling on etsy too?

We are going to be getting more active about nightweaning. I am ready for it to be done. I'm going to try not nursing until 6am. Considering he often doesn't go to sleep until around 10, this should be easy. I'm also going to try offering a sippy with water instead. Wish me luck!

mckittre - Oh you reminded me of when I was pregnant, my then dh and I attempted cross country skiing when I was about 34-35 weeks. I felt so good most of the time, so it was shocking to be out of breath only minutes into the trail. We had to turn around and go back







And then Royce was born only a week and a half after that!


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## Mal85

Gillian, sounds like you had the same problems I did after getting off of bc. That's when it started for me anyway. I spent 3 years dealing with sporadic periods. I didn't care so much when we weren't trying to get pregnant and somehow I lucked out getting pregnant with Owyn when we weren't really trying yet. Now, it's been over 5 years since getting off of bc, one baby later, and my periods are still sporadic. I thought they were getting better, just longer cycles. I'm hoping the fact that I skipped in September was just a fluke and I'm not really heading down that path again. We will find out, I guess. Needless to say, I am not ever going on hormonal bc again either.

Today is my busy day of the week, so I'm relishing in nap time right now. I had two new kids start today, a brother and sister. They will start coming 3 days a week next week, today is their only day this week. I actually have my numbers high enough that I hired my good friend to come help me for a few hours a day on the days that I have this sibling set here. She started today. She came at about 10 this morning and helped me during lunch prep, serving, and clean up. Then, helped get everyone laid down for naps and I'll be on my own the rest of the afternoon. It was so great to have another adult in the house for a few hours... an extra set of hands and eyes really came in handy!


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## mckittre

AK - sounds busy! I hope you sell lots

I've been lucky enough that I've never needed to pay much attention to my cycles, and got pregnant with Katmai the first month off birth control. But both my husband and I are quite set on having only 2 kids - I'm looking forward to being able to do something more permanent this time around, and not have to mess with birth control ever again.

We have over 2 feet of snow here now, and I've definitely been snowshoeing every other day or so, despite the "waddling whale" factor. Gillian, you're scaring me, though! I'm almost 35 weeks now, but hoping this baby stays put until at least 39 weeks. We're planning a 1-2 day trip out of town at 38 weeks, which is kind of crazy, but it's the premier of a documentary with us in it (from our footage from our year-long walk), so I really want to go!

Any tips for fun ideas to get little ones enjoying the snow? Katmai will be into it for half an hour or so, but it's hard to convince him to go out, and after one play session, he's often done for the day. I need more outside time than that, or I'll go stir-crazy! And there's only so long I'm willing to read toddler books in any given day.


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## Everrgreen

mckittre - I think 30 minutes is pretty good for a young toddler! We don't have any snow yet, I'm excited to see how Royce reacts to it. The 2 things that come to mind for playing in the snow are building something - maybe a tower built with snowballs? Or sledding (on a toddler-sized hill), I think that is something Royce would do over and over and over and over....

How are things going with your pregnancy?

Mal - How did your weekend away go? Hope you had a good time!

So my nightweaning is going ok. He nurses to sleep and then I don't nurse until 6am, he goes to bed at around 10pm so he's going about 8 hours, I wish I could get him to go to bed earlier, but I can't. He often wakes up once before then and I just rub his back or pretend to be sleeping. He cries a bit but then goes back to sleep. Then he usually nurses again at around 7am, then again around 8-8:30am when we wake up for the day.


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## Mal85

The weekend went great! I got about half of my total Christmas shopping done and Owyn is completely done other than her ornament! We shopped on Saturday for over 13 hours, I was exhausted! She did so great, she didn't even seem to miss me at all. She stayed Friday afternoon at my friend's house when I left. She watched me get into my car and looked pretty confused when I was leaving, but my friend said as soon as I was gone, she was off playing and laughing. DH said when he brought her home that day, she walked around the house yelling "Mommy! Mommy!". She must have thought I'd be there when she got back, but he said she didn't get upset.

The rest of the weekend she was a huge Daddy's girl and would hardly even get off his lap to play with me at all when I got home! I'm really glad they had the bonding time, it's been a long time since they've had one on one time together like that. I called and talked to her on the phone at one point. It was so cute, that was the first time she actually talked to me on the phone and knew it was me talking to her.

This weekend, DH is leaving for the weekend and that is the last of our traveling until my doula training in January. We've had a busy couple of months and I'm sure Owyn is ready to get back to normal now that we're heading into the holiday season. I'm going to take her to get portraits done, something we haven't done since her birthday. Hope she does well with that!


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## AKislandgirl

Hi everyone! The bazaar went really well. I sold enough to cover my costs and make a little money too. I sold out of one shirt that everyone loved so I'll be making more. For you Alaskan folks its a t-shirt with a pair of xtra tuffs on them. Super cute! Anyway, I have a list of over 25 people who want more! I just ordered more supplies today and will spend the week getting my etsy shop up and running with the rest of my inventory. It's exciting to be doing something different. I'll post a link in a few days. Right now its just a blank space. And I'm going with Anoif Designs like Starling suggested! 

Fiona spent the whole day with her Papa while I was at the bazaar. They came in to visit and bring us lunch and then were off again. She's never been away from me that long and DH has never had more then a couple of hours alone with her so this was a big deal. They both did great. In fact she nursed when they came to visit and then pushed me away and said, "I go with Papa". They totally needed this bonding time! And she even had a major fall (is totally fine though) on the playground and accepted his comfort. In the past when such things happen she just screams and cries for me if I'm not there. I think DH needed the confidence booster as much as she needed to realize he is good at comforting her too.

Hope all is well with everyone. Impressed with the Christmas shopping. I need to get on it! Let me know if any of you are looking to gift play silks or silk capes! I've got 'em!


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## mckittre

Gillian - glad nightweaning is starting to work for you. I have Katmai nursing at around 9PM before bed and then again around 8AM when he wakes, so he goes about 11 hours (he doesn't sleep with me anymore). But with the new one coming, I had a lot of motivation to get him not to need me at night!

Mal - sounds very industrious! I am basically not planning to shop for Christmas at all this year. (I rarely do much, and it's all online from here anyway). Cute that she'll talk on the phone. Katmai will play with phones, but will only actually talk on video chat.

AK - glad it went well. And the T-shirt with Xtra tuffs sounds very cute.  Dumb question: what's a play silk?

I finally got around to making jam with the salmonberries and high bush cranberries from the freezer from last summer! That'll be my Christmas gifts for people this year. And I better mail them in the next week or two, before I go out of town to wait for baby. I have about a month left to go before he or she shows up, and I am officially feeling too big and slow, and tired of being pregnant. But everything's going well, so I can't really complain.

We've finally gotten around to coordinating toddler trades with our other friends in town. We'll see how Katmai does with it - he's actually never been left for any significant amount of time with anyone other than us and the grandmas. But the kids are just getting old enough to enjoy eachother, and it seems like a good idea. It won't end up being much of a break for me though, since I'll soon be stuck to a newborn again.

Potty learning: How is this going for other folks? We haven't done much other than having the potty around and occasionally reading him a book about using it. He won't poop in it at all (unless we catch him in the act, and even then he often stops pooping as soon as he gets to the potty and finishes once he gets off). But if he's naked around the house he'll actually go climb on the potty to pee fairly often. Seems a bit backwards to me.


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## Nillarilla

Hey Mamas just wanted to check in. Sounds like nightweaning is going well for most. Yay!

We're still dealing with a blistering diaper rash around here. I got Rockin Green and so now they smell awesome and fresh and I tested their funk rock so there is no ammonia in them. However we are stilling blistering. It gets much worse after a poop so I was wondering if she got into some wheat or dairy but I put her in a G dipe overnight with olive oil on her bum and the rash is just about cleared even though she had a poop last night. I think we either have staph or yeast in the dipes. I think possibly staph because of how fast it cleared up on her. I'm going to boil and tea tree today and leave her in G until the rash is nonexistent.

D has a bit of a cold so we have to skip gymnastics today.

Anyone have any tips on dealing with mice? We get them every year in the winter because our house is like 100 years old. I've managed to block them out of my cupboards and so far none on the counters but I'm afraid I might go crazy this year sanitizing and cleaning up after them. We've sealed up all the holes with steel wool and we've spray foamed and baseboarded in the closets. We have these huge crawlspaces though that aren't sealed off that dh is trying to fix in between working full time and having the kids to himself when I am working. Argh there's my whine for the day.

AK I want some playsilks how much will shipping be to Canada?

McKittre I want to make some jam now that sounds yummy. In the snow when my ds was that little 30minutes was enough unless we were walking or sledding.


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## AKislandgirl

Nillarilla... I'll send you a PM.

McKittre: a play silk is a square silk scarf (the ones I have are 35 inch square and 21 inch square) for open ended play. Capes, blankets, forts, doll slings... Kids love them!

Jam sounds like a great Christmas gift! It's exciting that you are feeling big and slow... it means baby is coming soon!  You guys must be so excited!

DH and I had a long talk last night about home births. I've been very excited that a midwife moved to town making home birth a possibility. It's open season for insurance so I was going to call her and ask which plans she is covered under. DH does not want a home birth at all. He is totally freaked out by the whole idea. He's scared for me, scared for the baby etc... I was so bummed to hear how strongly he felt about this since I *really really* want a home birth! Of course I'm not even pregnant but it just really bummed me out.


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## justKate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl*
> 
> Nillarilla... I'll send you a PM.
> 
> McKittre: a play silk is a square silk scarf (the ones I have are 35 inch square and 21 inch square) for open ended play. Capes, blankets, forts, doll slings... Kids love them!
> 
> Jam sounds like a great Christmas gift! It's exciting that you are feeling big and slow... it means baby is coming soon!  You guys must be so excited!
> 
> DH and I had a long talk last night about home births. I've been very excited that a midwife moved to town making home birth a possibility. It's open season for insurance so I was going to call her and ask which plans she is covered under. DH does not want a home birth at all. He is totally freaked out by the whole idea. He's scared for me, scared for the baby etc... I was so bummed to hear how strongly he felt about this since I *really really* want a home birth! Of course I'm not even pregnant but it just really bummed me out.


IKWYM about feeling bummed about pg stuff when you're not pg yet! We put in our dream sheet for the Coast Guard--basically the list of where we want to go in May. Our list is: Gulfport, Mississippi; Yorktown, VA; Kodiak, AK; Everett, WA; and then 2 jobs in DC. I'm really hoping for either Gulfport or Kodiak, but we won't find out for another month or more. The wait is killing me! I was looking at the ICAN website, and it looks like WA is the most VBAC-friendly.... I looked at Kodiak, just for fun, and it looks like there's a total VBAC ban there. Sue, did you birth at Providence?

We've been playing with the potty some lately. Basically if I catch her peeing in the tub or looking like she needs to go, I get her on the potty and ask for "more." Then she tries really hard to make more for mama in the potty.

Yikes, work stuff, gotta run.


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## Vegan Princess

Potty isn't going far around here. She asks to sit on the potty sometimes or is amenable when I suggest it. But nothing ever comes out. I have told her she can have a lolipop if she goes. She loves lolipops! So today she told me she was pooping - only there wasn't anything in her diaper when I went to change her. I thought maybe it meant she had to poop. So I put her on the potty. She sat and sat. And sat. And sat. For like 45 minutes. Didn't want to get off. But sitll nothing came out. She even started crying bc she wanted the loli so bad. Finally we had to leave so I put her diaper back on. My mom is saying I should just put her in training pants so she'll learn but I think she is still too young for that. I don't want to push anything too fast.

Cindy


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## mckittre

I wasn't really planning to do anything much with the potty until after we're all settled in with kid number 2, but it seems like a shame not to take advantage of Katmai's interest in it. If I left him naked, I could probably get him peeing in the potty consistently in no time - he really likes doing it and seems to have some sense of when he needs to. But there's only so much poop I'm willing to clean off the floor (since he stubbornly refuses to poop there), and when we're out and about with a snowsuit on potty training sounds like way more trouble than it's worth! So I'm kind of conflicted on whether to try to push it farther right now.

I wish I could have a baby in my town (at home or otherwise). It might be possible in the summer to get a midwife to come over from Homer, but transportation's just not reliable enough in winter (and there I go having 2 winter kids). Which is why I only have a little more than 2 weeks left here at home, though baby's not due for a month. Seeing that I supposedly have less than a month to go is definitely getting me excited, but I know it's still awhile yet (and more if baby is late).

Just this week we got together with a group of friends to trade toddlers for awhile. I think it's the first time Katmai's ever been watched by someone not a relative - he did great!


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## Mal85

It's so exciting to hear about the baby coming so soon! I can't wait to be right there with you, Erin.

Potty here is hit or miss. She doesn't seem to get the concept yet and I'm not pushing it. She is interested in it and asks to go potty every now and then. But, she spends most of that time sitting on the potty for a split second, running around naked, sit on the potty a few seconds, run around laughing. She just likes to play with it for now, and I'm not keeping her from that. I really want her to continue to be excited about the potty rather than push it and make her hate it.

The LO I baby sit is a month older than Owyn. She's been in pull ups for several weeks now and does okay as long as I keep on her about going potty. She didn't really seem to "get" it either, until yesterday, when she made it all day long in the same dry pants! Her mom said she did great at home too, so I think something must have finally clicked for her! I'm hoping it rubs off on Owyn, she's so competitive with my daycare girl, they act more like sisters... a love-hate relationship, lol.

DH left this morning for a 4-wheeling trip with his dad, so Owyn and I are on our own for the weekend. I'm taking her tomorrow to get portraits done, here's hoping she cooperates it's been awhile since we've done this!


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## starling&diesel

AK ... I'd be interested in your play silks too! And that's awesome that you're going with Anoif Designs. Very cool!

There's a Waldorf craft sale tomorrow, where I was hoping to scope out dolls and playsilks, but we're due for some snow tonight (we're talking a few inches, people!) and that brings Vancouver to a halt. A halt. Seriously. People just don't know how to drive in the snow, and the city isn't prepared for it, and no one has the appropriate tires. Anyway, rant over. Probably means that the road to the Waldorf school will be impassable, especially because it's on the side of a mountain!

As for us ... waiting for my cycle to start, and then if all is a go, we do an embryo transfer in the first week of December or so.

We just got back from Tofino (west coast of Vancouver Island) today, where we rented a bare-bones beach front cabin for three nights. We also took a crazy, wild boat trip to Hot Springs Cove ("More bumps on the water, mama! More bumps!"), which is an undeveloped hot spring that comes out of the rocks right above the rocky shoreline, and about a half an hour hike to get into it from the dock. E and I sat in the "Hot tub rocks" for over an hour, chucking rocks and splashing. She loved it! We saw several grey whales, and sea lions, and a bunch of otters and eagles. E was in seventh heaven.

We are in no heaven at all with PL. She knows when she needs to go, and when she is going, and when she's holding it, yet she has no desire to produce on the potty whatsoever. Meh. She'll get there. The only bummer (excuse the pun) is that I think we might need buy bigger dipes. I'll be checking into CL for that. We're a Fuzzi Bunz family, so there are often lots for sale.

ps. We spent most of the trip away fantasizing about E's sibling. And we're not even pregnant! E wants to name the next baby, "Nova." And you know what? Both DP and I love the name! So ... maybe!


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## Nillarilla

That's so exciting about the embryo transfer Starling! I've always wanted to rent a cabin on the island. If I get into school next year we hope to do a little vacation before my orientation on the island.

How did you find out about it?

McKittre how amazing that in just a few short weeks you will have #2! The gift of a sibling is the best thing we can give our children IMO. My kids are incredible together. They fight of course but they love so fiercely it's amazing. My boy is so protective and loving to his little sister and my dd looks at him with such adoration it's heart melting. There are days when he growls at her to make her cry and she pulls him by the hair across the room but just as soon as it's over they forget it and get involved in another imaginary game I couldn't even hope to comprehend.

PL I wish she wanted to do it. She hates it. She cries if I even suggest the potty. I even tried bribery because I wanted her to get out of dipes so bad because of the bum rash.

I just made the most fantastic gluten free scones and I forgot the xantham gum. So while they taste fabulous they are so crumbly! I got a new KA mixer because the one I got for Xmas last year was slipping in the gears. I took it back to Costco 11 months after I bought it and they refunded me. I couldn't exchange because they don't carry that model anymore. So I had to pay a little to get the one that was there since hubby bought the last one on sale. But the new one has a wider bowl, a fan in the back to prevent overheating, and steel gears. I'm a little sad that I had to spend more money to replace what I already had but the other option was wait for KA to send me one which takes about 3 weeks and risk having it break over the Xmas season and then having to take the old one to the post office to return it. I am a little excited about the new features maybe I can actually make bagels without it overheating. Ok enough of that back to toddlers

We're having a pushing issue here. She just smacks and pushes when she's not getting her way. We tell her hands are for loving but it's not clicking. We remove her from the situation. But I really wish that we could get through to her that she needs to stop!


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## AKislandgirl

Hey Mamas. I couldn't get any PM's to send so send me an email if you are interested in play silks and I'll give you the low down. Thanks so much! [email protected]

Potty Learning: not so much. Fi likes to read her potty book, likes to wear underwear (usually about 3 pairs at a time!), and will tell me when she is pooping. But she does not want to use the potty. She pretends to pea on it sometimes. She has used it a hand full of times but it has been months. I feel like I don't really know how to potty train. Ha! She's still so young though. We'll get there. Would love to not buy more diapers though! We do prefolds which are not expensive but still it's more.

Xmas: Fiona is just about done! She is getting:


a hand full of schleich animals in a bolga basket to add to her collection.
A hobby horse on a stick from the bazaar this past weekend. So cute. She loved them when she popped in to visit!
2 books: Ladybug girl and Paperbag Princess
2 CD's: Free to Be You and Me and the new Elizabeth Mitchell
a baby for the bathtub
a boat for the bathtub
an apron
on Solstice she'll get some new jammies and a Christmas ornament

It's a lot! I couldn't contain myself! DH may build her a little bed for her babies too!


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## starling&diesel

*Nilla* ... It was a FABULOUS place for families! It's called Ocean Village Resort. Check out their website! It's right on the beach (door to sand is about forty feet), there's tonnes of sandy beach footage to play on, plus a lot of lush green grassy lawn, plus outdoor bbq's, plus heated indoor salt water pool, plus a cupboard of games and shelves of kids books and art supplies to borrow, plus kitchenettes (cut down our costs a lot), plus beach toys to borrow, plus it's only a few clicks from town. Highly recommend it! Super bare bones inside: no phone, no TV, but they do have free wifi. We left our gadgets at home ... now THAT is what I call a holiday! Their off-season rates are great ($97 a night), but I'd bite the bullet and pay a little more to enjoy a longer day ... maybe September after the rush? And the hot springs is a MUST if you get over there. Breath-taking. Truly. What a gift to be able to give Esmé!

*Xmas*: Our holiday last week was our Christmas gift as a family, so we're done! No prezzies from us, but I'm sure she'll have a few from the other rellies. I know my mom is knitting her socks, and another grandma made her some fairy wings, and the other grandma will send something, and my sister has been sewing up a storm (I asked for a cape with her name on it, and a crown). We do have a push-bike set aside for her, but I think we'll give it to her for her birthday. *AK*, I like the jammies and ornament on Solstice idea ... gonna steal that one!

*Waldorf Open House*: We did go. What a nuthouse! So many people. Esmé was totally overwhelmed. She just wanted to nurse and watch, nurse and watch. We did enjoy going through the gnome forest house, and the puppet play. Other than that, it was way too crowded! Got some great ideas for crafts and handiwork though, which is why I wanted to go. Now I just need to win the lottery so that I can stop working!


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## mckittre

starling - that hot spring sounds like an amazing place. Did you guys end up getting snow? I remember how it used to shut down Seattle the same way (which I loved as a kid). Here, snow is assumed, and they don't close school for blizzards even.

Everyone's talking about Christmas, but I'm really looking forward to Thanksgiving next week! (I know Canada has it earlier) I'm going to make a bunch of pies and my mom's wild rice stuffing and bring them over to the neighbor's (with around 35 other friends in town including tons of little kids). It should be a good party!

Lately Katmai has been super into building with lego-style blocks and memorizing his books. He'll quote nearly the entirety of "Very Hungry Caterpillar" and a number of other favorites, whether or not he's looking at them. And he picks up some very cute phrases from them that he doesn't quite understand. Lately, any time he wants to keep doing something or do it for a long time, he says he wants to do it for "more than two weeks!" (from the time the caterpillar spent in his cocoon).


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## AKislandgirl

Yes, I remember how Seattle shuts down in the snow. So funny! People even leave their cars parked on the freeway and walk away!

I officially want to go to that hot springs now. It sounds amazing!

I can't wait for thanksgiving either. I'm going to make a pumpkin cheesecake for the first time. I hope it turns out!

Babies coming soon! So excited. I'll be thinking about you both mckittre and starling in the coming weeks. Woo Hoo! Good luck to you both! 

I love hearing about Katmai's little phrases! This morning as we were waking up DH started stretching and making waking up noises. Fiona rolled over and said, Papa's a bear! Mama bear too. Nona (this is what she calls herself) bear too! And started growling. Cute!


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## starling&diesel

*Mckittre* ... we did get snow, but it was only an inch, and the city was organized enough to deal with it, so it wasn't too bad. I've lived in mountain towns where the kids slog through ten foot drifts to get to school, and here they call a snow day with three inches or more! Crazy. Any baby action today?

And when are you going to put one of your amazing photos up as your avatar?

This reply box is acting funny, but I think I've managed to put up a couple of links to photos of our trip.

the beach at our doorstep

the amazing boat to the hot springs

the amazing hot springs


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## AKislandgirl

Love the photos! Esmé is adorable! Nova is a great name by the way!

So Mama's I did it... my etsy shop is up and running. I got a sale on the first day! Take a look and tell me what you think. I still have some things to add which I'll do during nap time over the next few days. Here it is!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Your site looks great. I might have to order something for x-mas. I love the pic of Fiona you have up with her baby!! Beautiful!! BTW, Makenna calls herself Nenna - sort of like Nona. 

Starling: Great pics! I'm jealous. I could use a vacation.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Sue* ... great Esty shop! Congratulations on the birth of your very own 'baby!'

I love the memory game. You should charge more, hon!

And your silks are beautiful. Might be ordering some, depending on the bank. We just paid for our IVF cycle today, so I doubt there's going to be any pennies in the jar anytime soon!

Maybe for E's birthday!


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## Everrgreen

Yes Sue your site is awesome!! I'm going to order one of your memory games, those are so cool!

Starling - Great pictures! And I also watched the harmonica video - soo cute! I can't believe her HAIR omg! Royce has hair now but it is still pretty sparse. Esme is a beautiful girl 

Oh, and lots of good wishes and vibes for your IVF!!!

Royce's language is starting to pick up quite a bit. He is saying a lot more words: apple, blablah (banana lol!), cacka (cracker) cooka (cookie), lots of others too. He also uses lots of signs. The other night he was talking in his sleep, it was mostly babble but then he said 'hat' and then a few seconds later in a really annoyed voice 'maamaaaaa' I must have been doing something wrong with the hat in his dream lol!


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## mckittre

Sue - nice site! I like the memory game too. Does Fiona like to play yet?

Starling - the hotsprings looks beautiful. Good luck on the IVF!

Gillian - doesn't communication make things so much easier? I think I got far too lucky with a kid who has both an easygoing personality and was verbal fairly early. The next one's going to be a terror for sure!

So I just got back from a little baby shower party for baby #2. It was fun. Lots of friends, good food, and a few tiny cute pieces of clothing passed back around from the other moms in town, as well as a few toys for Katmai brought by some of the older children. Seeing the tiny cute outfits (some of which were Katmai's before) makes me want that little one to show up soon. And it makes Katmai look enormous in comparison. We've been doing a ton of socializing in town lately, and it's not even Thanksgiving yet - it must be that time of year. We've been seeing the other toddlers in town enough that Katmai seems to actually be interacting with them more and more, which is really nice. I'm going to miss everyone when we leave in two weeks to go wait for the baby.

Katmai is currently obsessed with the "TV tower" (communications tower) on the hill above the yurt. He wants to draw TV towers, build them out of blocks, and likes going on hikes up there (on my back). It's less than an hour's hike in ordinary conditions - straight up the hill and straight back down. But in punchy snow while 8 months pregnant and carrying a toddler, it's something else. I guess Katmai is making sure I get my exercise.


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## Mal85

Sue I love the site! Your stuff is so adorable!

Starling, I love the vacation pics. Esme is such an adorable little girl, I just love all her hair!

I took Owyn to get her pics taken over the weekend and got some really great holiday ones. She such a little ham. She's been super cranky this week, she needs the long weekend coming up as much as I do. I think she just gets tired of having so many other kids here, sometimes. She doesn't want me to hold anyone else or hug anyone else. I'm hoping the holiday off will help and she'll be ready to see everyone again next week.

Still waiting on a BFP. AF is due by the first of the month, but with my weird cycles you never can tell. I've had a lot of symptoms the last week or so... sore boobs, suuuuper tired yet not able to sleep well, even some small waves of unexplained nausea. But, that could all just be in my head since I so badly want to be pregnant.

Well, this is my Friday for the week. 4 days off after today and I even have an easy day for it- only two kids coming! I think we'll do some finger painting and see if I can get the older girls to make something that resembles a turkey!


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks everyone! It's nice to have a cheering squad : ) I was so excited and nervous about putting my stuff out there. Fiona does play with the memory game. We just place all the chips face up at this stage. I'll pick up a bird or whatever and ask her to find a match. She loves it. When she finds the match she throws her hands in the air and yells, "ta da, uf one bird!" Uf one translates to other one btw! I think she loves putting the chips in and out of the bag just as much though!









I'm excited for our Thanksgiving feast tomorrow! I'm making a peanut butter pie today for dessert. I know its not traditional thanksgiving fair but it's my birthday tomorrow and that's what I want! We have some friends coming to join us for dinner which will be nice.

Mal! I'm crossing my fingers for you! Keep us posted!

DH and I decided that we'll start clomid treatment in February. I think we are going to go with the mid dose. Last time I needed the highest dose and we are a bit nervous to start there because of twins. I'm not as freaked out about twins as he is. Sometimes I think about twins and think it would be awesome and other times I think how in the world would I manage. Of course we will be happy with one or two! My dad is a twin. His mom didn't know she was having twins until they were born! Can you imagine?! I don't want to start with the lowest dose just because I'm too impatient and don't want to start with something that is unlikely to work. We'll see. I'm continuing with the mayan massage in hopes that we can avoid the IUI part this time. We'll have to see.


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## Vegan Princess

Guess what ladies? I got a BFP yesterday!!!!! This was my first full cycle since weaning Makenna. Looks like it was the nursing messing up my cycle and hormones after all!!! I haven't told DH yet. My lines are still really faint. I am 13 dpo. I think the bean didn't implant until day 10. Makenna was a late implanter too. I was hoping the lines would be darker this morning. I did get a good line yesterday after I dehydrated myself and tested again. I might show that to him. DH is sleeping in. I am going to dress Makenna is a shirt that says "I'm the big sister" and have her wake him up.  I'm still nervous bc the lines are light but they are definitely there. Eeck! So I would be due somewhere around 8/10. My birthday is 2 weeks before. I went 2 weeks early last time - so maybe I'll be holding a new little squishy baby in my arms for my birthday next year!! 

Mal & Starling: I hope you'll be joining me in the August due date club!

Sue: I hope the low dose of clomid does the trick! Have you tried soy isoflavones? They are supposed to be a mild version of clomid. I took soy this month.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - YAY!! CONGRATULATIONS!!! I am so happy for you (and wow, that was fast ). My first BFP with Royce was very light, and then 2 days later was even lighter (which freaked me out!) but then after that it got darker. And obviously my pregnancy was a good one lol!

Alright Mal, you're next ;o)

Followed closely by Starling and Sue! So many new babies in the future!!

And, speaking of new babies... How are you doing McKittre? Any guesstimates on when your little one will arrive?

Royce started swimming lessons again this morning. He enjoyed it, but the changeroom afterwards was awful - why don't they keep it warmer?? Royce had blue lips and was shivering and crying, he was CLINGING to me I had to literally pry each limb off of me so I could put him down and get his dry clothes out. And then after frantically getting him dressed, then me, I picked him up turned around quickly and slammed his head into the door. So yeah... that was great...


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy*! Wonderful news!





















A chorus line of happy dancing veggies for you! That is so exciting! And so cute that M will be the one to 'tell' her daddy! Awesome!

Best wishes for a super sticky babe!







Stick to the pole, little bean! Stick to the pole!

I SO hope that I can join you. But I'm being cautious because this cycle my period was very light ... although maybe the estrace has something to do with that. I'm hoping that when I go for the lining u/s that it will be plump and cozy and ready to host a wee bairn! Ah, who am I kidding ... my hopes are up. Sigh. I hope we get a BFP too! If this cycle works, it'll put me POAS on Christmas day!

*Mal* ... come on, mama, get one cookin'!

*Gillian* ... They allow little ones in the hot tube here for about five minutes. Can you put him in with you for a quick warm up before hitting the change room? That's what I do with E and it makes the change so much easier. You might ask the lifeguards if that's okay. The other thing you can do is take a little kid's watering bucket and fill it with hot water from the hot tub and give him a little 'shower' or two before heading to the change room. And do you take the towel to the poolside? That makes a difference for E too. If I forget the towel, she's that much colder by the time we get to the changeroom. Oh! And a toque! For right after. That helps too. I hope the next lesson goes way better! xo


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## AKislandgirl

CINDY!!!! I'm all teary and excited for you! What amazing news. And I love the way you are telling DH!!! So cute! This is the best news ever. Truly something to be thankful for!

Starling, fingers crossed all is going well.


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## mckittre

Congratulations Cindy!!! Hope it sticks and everything goes well!

It'll be so fun to see some of our little ones as big brothers and sisters! Though Katmai insists that the baby will be the big brother and he'll be the little brother - he's very insistent that he's little, not big.

As far as my new little one (who's not seeming so little anymore at over 8 months along)... No guesses better than the due date about when he or she will show up. So about 3 weeks? I'm getting impatient, but with various stuff we have planned (including a short trip out of town), it'll be best if baby waits until at least the 11th.

Gillian - I take Katmai to swimming once a week or so, and that's always an issue for him too. Especially since he's terrified of the warm shower.


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## Vegan Princess

Aww thanks guys! Sue, you are so sweet! It will be you soon enough!! My DH was groggy and had to read her shirt twice before he got it. He was very happy. I think it is still sinking in, even though we have been trying for 6 months. LOL. Makenna is so obsessed with babies and she wants one of her own. I told her there is a new baby in mommy's tummy and she thought it was baby Theo - the little boy her friend's mom is about to birth, any day now. LOL. But she also thinks baby Theo is in her tummy. She is pretty adept at the birth idea already. She always says "nena come out mommy's belly. born. in bathtub."  I know it's early to tell a kiddo but I figure she probably doesn't really get it and will probably forget unless I keep talking about it. Just wanted to see her reaction. I think she'll be a great big sis.

McKittre: I'll be watching you to see how you handle going from 1 baby to 2. It's the little things that I want tips on, like which kid do you take out of the car first when you are alone, etc.

Gillian: Thank you for telling me about your faint lines. It really helps me feel better! Fingers crossed for something darker tomorrow!

So, Makenna has started using "I". I'm a bit shocked. "I'm done eating." "I want cheerios.". Out of the blue. And full, complete, ordered sentences. It's crazy!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Oh Cindy, I'm so happy for you!! I wish I could give you a big hug in real life I'm so excited! Keeping my fingers crossed that I join you there soon.









I hope everyone else had a wonderful Thanksgiving too. We've been busy all weekend long and still have one more dinner to go to tonight.

I joined my sister for Black Friday shopping, leaving my house at 3:30 in the morning. It was pretty crazy, but I found some awesome deals and got all my Christmas shopping done except for my FIL. Going back next weekend to get his. I even saved enough money on all the deals, I was able to pick up a new dress for me and for Owyn to wear for Christmas Eve Mass. Yesterday, we spent the day at my aunt's visiting with my cousins who came to town for the weekend. Then, I attempted to take Owyn to her first movie at the movie theater with all her cousins. She loved it for the first half of the movie. She felt like such a big girl sitting with all the other kids. Then, she got tired and that means she went a little crazy. We spent the last part of the movie in the lobby where she danced and twirled in circles and was given some free food from DH's aunt who owns the theater.


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## Vegan Princess

Well, I think I had a chemical pregnancy! My lines just weren't getting darker. Have been having cramps for 24 hours and now there is red blood. So I am 99% sure I am getting my period. Going to my midwife now so she can do labs and she wants to talk to me. Not sure what about exactly. Not sure what one can say about this - it's pretty common from what I've read. I'm doing ok though bc I felt like something was wrong from the 2nd day when the lines didn't get darker so I never got attached to the idea that I was actually pregnant. If that makes sense. I'm just sorry I ever told DH. Next time I'm waiting until the lines are super dark! I do feel good knowing I can conceive again now that Makenna is weaned. That is a burden lifted.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Oh Cindy! I'm so sorry Mama! Big hugs to you. I hope it happens for you real soon.









Mal, I'd say half a movie is pretty good! It sounds like you are on top of Christmas too. I have Fiona covered and I need to finish (ahem, start) DH's shopping. I'm just ordering stuff online today though. His birthday is next week so I am glad to have gotten that taken care of! We don't do gifts for my parents anymore at their request but I'd like for Fiona to "make" them something. Any suggestions?

I was going to take Fiona to music this morning but she didn't wake up till 9 and class is at 9:30. She protested any attempts to rush her getting ready so I just let it go. It's for her after all! She's much happier now cruising around the house in her PJ's. We're off to run errands in a bit though.

Have a great day Mama's.

Starling, when is the big day?!


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## Mal85

Cindy, I'm so sorry! That has to be such a big let down. I'm right there with you. AF came to visit me this morning. For once in my life, my period came on time. So, we get to keep on trying... I was really hoping to be expecting by Christmas... In fact, I fully believed I would be. I guess there's a chance we'd find out right around Christmas if I get pregnant next month.

I think I'm going to make an appt with my OB. I was due for my annual last spring anyway and put it off thinking I'd be pregnant soon anyway. So, I figure it can't hurt to go in and ask some questions.


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... So sorry to hear about the chemical pregnancy. And I totally get your regret at telling DH, but how could you have kept the news to yourself when you were so excited? I'm sure it's a comfort to have him mourn the loss too. I've heard that often the cycle after an early loss or chemical pregnancy is way more fertile ... here's to DTD to get your Christmas BFP!

*Mal* ... Sorry to hear that AF showed. At least on time, though! Get things rolling for your Christmas BFP too!

*Sue* ... As for our big day, I go for an u/s to check the lining next Wednesday or so, and if it's a-okay, then a Friday embryo transfer, which means I'll be POAS on Solstice! I cannot imagine a better solstice gift. If it's a BFN, then that's okay too, being that it's the longest, darkest night of the year. Somewhat fitting on both accounts.


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## Vegan Princess

Thanks guys. So maybe now we will all end up in a September due date club! I think I should be ovulating again next Thursday or so. So right around the time of your tranfer Starling!

Mal: Sorry about AF!

Makenna has been skipping naps lately. Finally got her down today. But 3 or 4 times last week she just didn't nap and we put her to bed at 7 instead of 8. Last night after not napping she was asking to go to bed around 6:45. It was too hard to enforce the nap if she didn't want one with DH and FIL around the past 5 days. Too much going on. This mama is NOT ready to give up quiet time though!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Oh Cindy, I'm so sorry *hugs* You seem to be at peace with everything, that's good. Lots of baby vibes for next month for you! And I'm sure your dh was glad to be able to share everything with you good and bad.

Starling - Oh exciting! I'll be thinking of you, I hope everything is good for your transfer - fingers crossed!

Mal - lots of baby vibes for you too! Hopefully you'll be able to get a BFP for Christmas this year 

Royce's nap schedule is weird, but it seems to work for him. He almost always needs a nap during the day... but that means bedtime is late. When the nap gets skipped for whatever reason he is tired and cranky all day, but goes to bed early. So I prefer him to take his needed nap even if it means a late bedtime. It works for right now.

Royce said his first (legible) sentence! He said 'Mmmm that good!' while eating. He actually says that a lot when he's eating lol!


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... My mom says that both my brother and I stopped napping before we were two and that she still did 'quiet time' every single day as it preserved her sanity and kept everyone a lot happier. We were in our rooms from 1-3pm and could do quiet activities, read, rest, or do nothing at all. I loved it! I plan on doing the same for Esmé. Especially as we'll likely homeschool. I think 2 hours of quiet time is very reasonable!

And as for ovulating next Thursday ... awesome! I'd love a few familiar DDC buddies.

*Mckittre* ... anyone we know from this DDC in your new one? How's the baby bump?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess*
> 
> Thanks guys. So maybe now we will all end up in a September due date club! I think I should be ovulating again next Thursday or so. So right around the time of your tranfer Starling!
> 
> Mal: Sorry about AF!
> 
> Makenna has been skipping naps lately. Finally got her down today. But 3 or 4 times last week she just didn't nap and we put her to bed at 7 instead of 8. Last night after not napping she was asking to go to bed around 6:45. It was too hard to enforce the nap if she didn't want one with DH and FIL around the past 5 days. Too much going on. This mama is NOT ready to give up quiet time though!
> 
> Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

My period started today too. I've found my cycle to be about 10 days shorter with mayan massage then months without. I'll be scheduling another massage for next week. I'm going in to see my Dr on Wed. It was going to be my annual too but I'm just going to take the time to get the balling rolling on the fertility thing instead. She's hard to get in with and I don't want to lose an opportunity there. Although we have agreed that Feb is the month we will begin meds I'm really tempted to start this cycle. I don't know if there is enough time to do all the necessary bloodwork to get the ball rolling or not but we'll see.


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## Mal85

How weird is it that the three of us all started our periods at the same time? I have to believe it means we'll all be getting our BFPs at the same time!


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## mckittre

Cindy - I'm sorry! Hope for all the best for next month.

I hope for all the best for next month for all of you that are trying! Maybe you'll all be beginning the journey right as I'm giving birth.

I'm officially enormous now, and hopefully only have a few weeks to go. Headed out of town next week for the film festival, then waiting for baby. Any time after the 10th, I'd love this little one to join me.

Naps: Katmai will only nap reliably if me or my husband is wearing him, on a walk outside. We still do that a fair amount, but I find that hiking with him is a bit more of an expedition at 8 months pregnant, so sometimes I skip it. He'll occasionally crash in my lap after nursing, but only at 4PM or later - too late to let him have a full nap.

Starling - that "quiet time" sounds like a great idea, but how on earth did she enforce it for under 2 year olds? I can't imagine telling Katmai to go be quiet and not bug me for 2 hours - 10 minutes is hard enough!


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## AKislandgirl

McKittre: so close! I can't wait to pictures of Katmai with baby! 

OK Mama's... can I say how much I love this age but wowza! Do I have a fiesty toddler! She was pretty mellow as a baby. Just pretty much wanted to be attached to her Mama or kicking on the floor with her toys. These days she has a huge independent streak. She needs to get herself dressed and does not want ANY help. She actually does a pretty good job of dressing herself but if the sleeve is tangled and I touch it she'll take the whole dang shirt off to start over! She gets frustrated if she can't do it and even more if I try to help! OMG it is hard to be patient sometimes! I allow half an hour to get ready to leave the house just so she can do it herself. I do love that she is mastering these skills but sometimes we just don't have the time! I'll have to get a video of her getting her coat on though. It's pretty awesome. She does the arms in the coat and flip it over her head to get it on trick! She is so proud of herself when she gets herself dressed that it is hard to get too frustrated though. She runs up to me with this huge grin, "I did it Mama!"

Also diapers... sometimes she just doesn't want a diaper. She'll yell at the top of her lungs "No Diaper!" Usually I just let her wear underwear around the house when she wants but she pees in them. She does seem to be getting upset when she wets her underwear. She'll say, "Oh no, I'm wet!" with great dispair. I just don't know how to make the leap to using the potty. Usually when she wets I just scoop her up and sit her on the potty and say Pee goes in the potty but I don't know. She pretty much never goes even if I put her on at predictable potty times (waking up, after lunch, etc...) I feel like I'm missing some major thing in potty learning here but I don't know what it is. I realize she's still pretty young for this but if the girl is going to freak about putting a diaper on I'd prefer her not to pee all over the house!

OK, mama vent over. I really do love this stage it just has its challenges!


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## Vegan Princess

Haha Sue. Makenna is like that too. She insists on being naked a lot thes days, despite the temp having dropped to the 40s and 50s lately. She too wants her diaper off but I don't allow it since she just pees wherever. Maybe I should and maybe it would help her recognize when she is going and what it feels like. BTW, I recall you saying Fiona had a thing about her toes. Makenna is always tryin to put things between her toes these days and makes me put my hair between her toes - she loves it. LOL.

Re: quiet time. My mom did make us go to our rooms and have quiet time when we stopped napping too. I don't know how that will work out with Makenna before she is older though. As soon as I even threaten to walk out of the room, she starts crying. If I leave her in there alone, she will just throw everything out of her crib and cry and cry until I get her. Which usually isn't more than a few minutes. But if i let it, it would go on indefinitely. Even if I tell her she doesnt have to sleep and can play with her toys quietly. The concept is lost on her. So needless to say, it ends up being an energy zapping event, not restful and it's not calming for me either. I'm hoping when she is older she will understand the concept better. Her temperament just isn't suited for it. I hve plenty of friends who can just put their kid in the crib and have them play happily for an hour until they go to sleep. That would NEVER happen here. I have to hold her hand until she falls asleep. And it's so frustrating bc I have to hang out until she settles down enough to lay down and then sleep - which can be half hour these days. I try to remind myself how sweet it is that she wants to hold my hand though and it is very sweet to watch her little face as she drifts off.

Makenna does a nanny share on Tuesday mornings while I work on a project for my old boss from home. It's a nice break. She loves it.There are 2 other kids her age. She has been asking for days to go see the kids and the nanny. I just wish I could afford to keep it up once my project is done. Anyway, time to go pick her up.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Owyn has been wearing underwear at home a lot of the time too. She stops in her tracks when she pees and just stands there with a shocked look on her face (drops her jaw and everything), points at her crotch and goes "Ohhhh Ohhhhh Ohhhh" over and over until I get her cleaned up. She's started doing that when she pees in her diaper too, so I have to think she is at least recognizing what's happening. A lot of times, when she's in her underwear, she stops in her tracks right before she pees, but it's never enough time for me to get her to the potty. She asks to go potty pretty frequently, it helps that I have two daycare kids potty learning right now (not very successfully so far). Everyone wants to go potty at the same time!

I'm thinking about getting her some actual cloth training pants. The crotch is about as thick as her diapers, but they wear just like underwear. I'm hoping they'd absorb a little more of the pee rather than having it run down her leg all over the place. They're something she would wear at home, and when we go out I could just throw a cover on over it for accidents.


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## justKate

OMG-typing this post for the third time, in Word, so that I don't get distracted, click away and lose my post.

I mostly just wanted to say how exciting it is to see everyone's development in this phase. It's so strange having a third human in the family, instead of a little monster! Aubs has sort of figured things out, it seems, and she's got so many opinions, it's just crazy. As difficult as she is, I feel really lucky that she chose me.

I'm also really excited for everyone who's TTC! And Cindy, I'm sorry about your chem pg. It does sound like things are working though, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. My next door neighbor had a baby just before Thanksgiving, and it got the itch started at my house, I think. We're doing FAM and withdrawal, and talked in general terms about letting things happen in the spring. Huz was asking Aubs if she would like a little brother, and it made my heart skip a beat!

Potty learning&#8230;well we have four potties right now, but apparently there is more to it than just having the potties. (I keep finding them at the consignment shop, so I buy them, because really, you can't beat $6 for the big Bjorn potty.) Aubs is holding her bladder for a LONG time, so I feel like we could do it, but I have no idea how to do it with her being in daycare. I'll be done with my job in five months, but I hate the idea of her using diapers until then just because it is easier. Ugh. Maybe a post for elsewhere&#8230;. Mal, Aubs does the same thing. She stops, pees, and says "poe-y, die-doo!" [potty, diaper!] We catch it sometimes, but I can't keep her sitting on the potty long enough to actually go on it. Ah well. I was thinking about making some sort of cloth pull-up, but I don't know where to start. I tried to find an MDC mama making them, but didn't come up with anything. They do sell PUL at my fabric store now. Hmm, maybe an after-Christmas project for me!

We don't have quiet time, but we do have "grown up time" in the evening. If Aubs won't go to sleep by 8:30 or so, we go downstairs and she can play by herself, but no screaming, no torturing mommy. Grown up time is when mommy sews, daddy reads, and Aubrey plays by herself. It works pretty well because she sees it as an acceptable alternative to going to sleep.

Hmm, think that's everything for now. Hope you all had a good Thanksgiving!


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## Everrgreen

No way would plain old 'quiet time' work here either. But like I said before Royce is almost always tired and ready to nap - so he's asleep in less than 5 minutes (still nurses to sleep). There was a day a few days ago where Royce wouldn't nap and I was frustrated so I said 'it is time for your nap you need to sleep' and I shut the door and went to eat my lunch. He screamed and cried the whole time I ate. And I realize it's not very mdc-ish of me to let him cry while I eat, but it was just one of those days. I went and got him afterwards and he hadn't even gotten off the bed, he was sitting right where I left him just crying away. But usually he naps well!

I would love to be done with diapers, but we are sooo not there yet. He will always tell me when he poops 'I poopoo' and he will tell me if he has a diaper leak or he pees while he's not wearing a diaper 'I pee'. If I am on the toilet he wants to sit on his potty but he never does anything. I'm not really sure if there's more I should be doing. He will happily wear a diaper though so that's good!


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## starling&diesel

*pottying* ... E wants to be in 'big girl panties' all the time too. We have half a dozen of the old-school cloth trainers that have a little bit of padding at the crotch. They don't catch the pee though. Maybe slightly better than regular undies. E knows when she has to pee, when she pees, and when she needs to poop. Does this translate to any success on the potty itself? Negative. I try to be relaxed about her going around the house with her undies on, but pee on the carpet drives me INSANE! I just got the carpets cleaned last month, and it PAINS me to see her pee all over the place, especially when she knows where the pee is supposed to go. Someone told me that toddlers often hold onto potty control as it is one of the few areas in their lives where they can control things and do things at their own pace. I think that's exactly what's going on, and I just have to remind myself that this too shall pass. Sigh. My lovely carpets. Sigh.

*quiet time* ... I don't think even my quiet little introvert would do enforced quiet time right now. But I'm working towards it. In the late afternoon I sit on the couch and read while she plays by herself. We do this for about an hour. This is a learning process for both of us. I often don't get much read, and E often gets frustrated that I'm 'unavailable' but I need for this to be something to work towards, as I need quiet, book time to be sane. As she gets older, this can transition into family quiet time ... or that's my hope, anyway.


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## AKislandgirl

Goodness _ does anyone else have trouble writing in these reply boxes. I just tried to erase a misspelled word and I can only right at the top of the page now?! This is really annoying.

Yeah we do thick gerber underwear too. The fact that she likes to wear multiple pairs at a time helps a bit but not much! I'm just trying to let it go and will borrow my friends carpet shampooer on a more regular basis I think!Our carpets aren't exactly gorgeous and nice but I still don't like having pee all over them! I think that the fact that she reacts to wet underwear or diapers these days is a good sign. I'll just keep trucking along.


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## AKislandgirl

Trying again to finish my post:

i met with my Dr this AM. She said I don't need to do all of the initial blood work that I did when TTC Fiona. So I'm starting on the lowest dose of clomid this cycle! Neither of us thinks that I'll ovulate at this level but we both decided its the best place to start. I'll do blood work confirming or not confirming ovulation later in the cycle and move up a dose if need be. Hoping this won't negatively affect supply as Fiona is still such a boob girl. But I'm excited to be starting up again! I hope a pregnancy is in my near future!


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## mckittre

pottying: At least my floor is just painted plywood, so pee is pretty easy to clean. He's not as into the potty as he was a week or 2 ago, but he did pee on it this morning. We don't even have any underwear for him - makes me think I should probably figure out getting some soonish!

Sue - I'm impressed that she's dressing herself. I don't think Katmai's even tried other than shoes and slippers.

The independent streak is definitely occasionally exasperating, but mostly cute. The other day he was walking/sliding down the snowy hill back to the yurt and kept saying "Mom go away to yurt! Not watch you (me)!" He's also decided to politely agree to disagree with me on any number of random factual things. Me: "Those are horses." Katmai: "No. You (I) not think so!" "Mom thinks those are horses, and Katmai thinks those are donkeys!"

Here's a fun picture we took on the hill above the house, hiking up with baby bump 2 and baby bump 1:

http://groundtruthtrekking.org/Photo/2736/

And one of Katmai sliding on the snow with dad

http://groundtruthtrekking.org/Photo/2728/


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## Vegan Princess

McKittre: Fantastic pics! You look awesome!! 

Sue: Yay - I hope we all get BFPs for x-mas!!! Can't recall if I posted this or not but I have an appt w/my OB on Monday and am getting progesterone suppositories. If I am not prego after this month, I may start clomid. We'll see.

Ugh. Another no nap day. And quiet time isn't working out at all.

I went to a cloth diaper meetup at the store that I order from online. Didn't know they recently opened a shop. It's about 1/2 hour from me. Probably good I didn't know about it before. LOL. I never did the wool longie route w/Makenna but now I am interested. I never did fitted dipes bc I thouht you had to do a cover on top - didn'tknow you could do wool pants. So now I am wanting another babe even more so I can buy all these different dipes. LOL!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Erin, I love the pics. So special to have that for each pregnancy!

Wish me luck ladies. I've been keeping an ear out for jobs for several months now. I didn't know if I'd find one that really suited my needs: flexible schedule, close to home, good hours to still spend time with Owyn, etc. But I may have just had something fantastic fall into my lap. A friend of mine just started part time, working from home. Sort of a Parents as Teachers meets social services job. They're desperately looking for someone to fill a full time position in my county. I'd also work from home and do family visits around my own schedule. I'd actually be in charge of working strictly with families who have a SAHP, so all my visits could be done during the day, so I wouldn't have any evening interruptions.

I think it would be perfect for the doula thing I'm getting started on, with the flexible schedule. And I would only need care for Owyn when I go do my family visits. My friend and I are hoping we could work it out so we do visits on different days. That way I could watch her son when she does her visits and she could watch Owyn while I do mine. And the pay, surprisingly, is more than 3 times what I'm bringing in with daycare right now. I'm digging around for what the downside is... why are they having so much trouble filling the position if it's so great, ya know? But I'm hopeful that this could finally be what I've been looking for!


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## AKislandgirl

Watch out Cindy! Once you get bit by the woolie bug you can't go back!  Fiona wears wool 100% of the time. We do a combo of soakers and longies. I love them! I also dream of newborn woolies!

Mal: crossing fingers about the job! It sounds great! Keep us posted!

Of course they are donkeys... Katmai knows best!


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## Everrgreen

I've never tried woolies, maybe for my next baby! I'm a prefolds and pockets kinda girl ;o)

Cindy - All my diaper orders are online too, if there was a store nearby - that would be trouble!

That's really funny that Katmai mixes up you and I, I would love to hear him talk - so cute!

Today Royce had a little teddy bear held to his ear and was acting like it was telling him something. Then he grabbed his moose puppet looked at the teddy and said 'moose?' then 'no', then he grabbed a cow puppet and said 'cow?' then 'no', and then he said 'no' a couple more times and continued walking around with the teddy to his ear. It was pretty funny - and kinda weird.

Mal - good luck with the job!!


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## Mal85

Well, that was short lived. I sent in my resume the day after I found out about the job and they filled it that afternoon. I'm pretty bummed about it because I let myself get excited... I told them to hold on to my resume, most of their positions are work from home gigs, so I'm hoping I'll hear from them sometime.

We took Owyn and had family portraits done with my ILs. She did better then than she has for pictures in a long time. We happened to catch her at her manic tired stage, so she was easy to get giggling. My kid must be strange because when she gets tired, she doesn't really get cranky anymore. She gets super giggly and wild. I can tell she's tired when she starts getting clumsy, but she doesn't slow down. In fact, she gets going even more the more tired she gets.

Today was supposed to be a full day of daycare kids, but one called off last night and two were picked up before lunch time. So, I just have my friend's 6 month old today. Him and Owyn are both napping, then we're going to get out of this house for the afternoon!


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## mamamillet

So I have not posted here in a while and it has been fun to read about everybody's babes! I have read on and off but got discouraged in another forum and took a break. We are busy around here. It seems that Willa loves to get her hands on everything! Things I never worried about with her brother are her favs. I love how social Willa is these days. Her personality is just so much fun! Her brother was a clinger but she LOVES people. We have pretty much night weaned though she still wakes 1 -2 times and asks for water. But it has only been about 10 days since I stopped bf during the night. No real progress with PL...

We are thinking about a possible move next summer. Last winter dp took a job 7 hours away from us. It was supposed to be a temporary thing, 6-9 months but we are closing in on a year and the job prospects around here are not good. All my family is here (and friends) and I am worried how DS will do but I miss being all together and think that it ill be harder to continue to be away from each other. Did I mention that I loathe moving??


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## Nillarilla

Haven't checked in a awhile. So much going on.

Cindy: So sorry about your chemical pg. Fingers crossed that it happens for you this month.

Starling: Fingers crossed on the transfer

McKittre: Those pics are gorgeous. Can't wait to see the new babe.

Mal: Sorry the job didn't work out.

Independence: We also have that issue here. If she's trying to put her shirt on as pants and I try and help she screams and throws it down and then starts all over again.

Language: D's newest sentence is "I no YIKE (like) it!" Or just I no yike whatever she happens to be objecting to at that moment in time. Her language is exploding though it's quite fascinating.

PL: We bought a new potty with a colour changing sticker and some Mother ease trainers and new potty book today in attempts to entice her to try instead of cry about it. It seemed to work a little at least she is starting to try and take her pants down and sit and pull them back up (halfway) again. I tried to take her there right after nap but we still missed. I think catching that morning pee is the secret to success. That's how we did it with ds. We just started with the morning and then added more times slowly.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Sorry about the job! Such a bummer when you get your wheels turnring only to not get it.

Mama millet: Nice to hear from you! Congrats on the night weaning. Moving is no fun. But I would def. want my DH to be near us!

Nilla: Hi!!

Makenna started saying "yeah" in response to yes or no questions and to agree with me while I state a fact. This is revolutionary! Before she would never say yes to anything. Only no. 

Cindy


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## mckittre

Mal - sorry about the job! Hopefully something good will turn up.

mamamillet - good to hear from you again. I hope you find a solution that doesn't force you to move, but it must be hard to be apart like that.

Nilla - "No yike that!" is one of Katmai's favorite sentences as well.

Well, I'm officially away from home until baby comes. Headed up to Anchorage this afternoon for the film festival premier of our movie, so really crossing my fingers that baby doesn't show up in the next couple days - I don't want to be stuck delivering with someone I've never met in a big intervention-happy hospital I've never been in. But the movie showing should be fun. Send me some baby stay in vibes for the next few days!


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## Everrgreen

mckittre - Sending you lots of labour-delaying vibes  Although I must admit that every time I see there is a new post from you I think it's going to be a new baby announcement! You must be getting excited!

Cindy - Yay for saying 'yeah'! Royce actually said 'yes' before 'no' but he says it 'yep' or 'dep'. And sometimes he answers for me, like he'll ask 'apple?' and then before I can answer he says 'yep' and heads for the kitchen lol!

Mal - Sorry the job didn't work out 

Royce doesn't seem to have too much of an 'I'll do it myself' personality. He will gladly accept help most of the time. I also started asking 'can I help you?' when he is struggling and now he will ask 'mama help?' His big tantrums happen when we have to stop doing one thing so we can do another thing (ex stop playing because we need to get ready to leave the house), also if I don't want to or can't play with him anymore, and then when he can't communicate what he wants to me. But most of the time he's easy to distract. Oh, he also LOVES talking on the phone, usually to my mom, and he flips out when it's time to say bye.

Actually, related to the phone thing, yesterday I saw him with my cell phone and I told him to bring it to me but then I got distracted for a minute. I looked back and he was talking as though someone was on the phone with him. So I went over and took the phone from him and he had called my friend! She said she had been talking to him for a few minutes. So he must of pushed a bunch of buttons, got the phone unlocked, and then called her! I'm glad he only called her and not 911!!


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: LOL! That is funny that your friend kept talking to him!! Makenna has called people but I always hang up as soon as I notice. And then feel lame for hanging up on someone I know.

McKittre: OMG!!! Your time is almost here to meet your little one!!! I hope you can enjoy the films without going into labor. And that the baby comes quickly after that so you can go back home and enjoy your babymoon. So excited for you! 

I had my OB appointment today. Got a prescription for progesterone to take this month. Going to repeat hormone testing next month if not preg this month. I can't do the tests this month bc we are traveling for xmas. She didn't give me a clomid scrip yet. Says I might not need it now that Makenna has weaned. She only suggested it before bc she didn't think I was ovulating while nursing. So we will see what happens in the next 2 months if I am not prego and what my hormones are doing.

Makenna asked to nurse while we were at the dr today. She never asks anymore. I let her since she was obviously scared being there. She barely touched her lips to my nipple and just stayed that way for a little bit. I think she doesn't remember how to nurse anymore. Or doesn't care to try really. She will be the first tell you she is "weaning". And I think she is proud of it.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Mal* ... so sorry about the job. I know what it's like to get excited about your perfect fit, and then not have it work out. I hope something *even better* comes your way!

*Mckittre* ... Keep those legs closed, hon! It must be hard to be away from home. We had to leave town to have Esmé too. Just a few hours down the highway, but still. It was so nice to go back to our cosy home after being away. I so badly wanted all my creature comforts; my duvet, my bed, my woodstove, my huge bathtub, my beautiful snowy backyard and the view of the mountain. It was delicious to get back home! We had to wait awhile for my bloodwork to reflect the end of the pre-e, so it was several days before we climbed into the truck and made our way home as a family of three, after leaving as a family of two. Okay, I've got the baby-wannas bad! I'm tearing up, remembering Esmé's first few days!

Cindy ... That's so sweet that M gets that she's 'weaning.' No such thing happening here. We are down to three short sessions a day around sleep. I hope your hormones level out in your favour! Are you planning to aim for a good dose of lovin' around your O time this month? Or are you not going to bother, what with the holidays?

*mamamillet* ... Welcome back! Good to hear from you!

*Nilla* ... any new developments on the school front?

*Gillian* ... so funny about the phone! Esmé has had 'independent' chats with several people, as I can't figure out how to lock my phone. Including one with my Quebecois mother in law, for several minutes, very long distance ... and in French!


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## AKislandgirl

Hi Mamas!

Today was supposed to be my day off but the little girl I watch ended up coming because her Dad is sick. We'll see how my plans of deep cleaning the house pan out today with the two girls running amoc! I started clomid a few days ago and am happy to report no change in milk supply! My Dr and I both think I'll have to work up to the 150 mg dose before I ovulate so I hope my supply remains steady through those changes. It's exciting to be "officially" ttc rather then just not using birth control! Here's hoping things work out!

I had a funny conversation with my sister yesterday. She is a mom of 8! She has breastfed all for a looong time. She told me that if a toddler isn't weaned when a new baby comes around you might as well add 2 years to their nursing! She said its too hard for them to see all the yummy milk being passed out to the baby and wanting to be babied a bit themselves. I can totally see Fiona wanting to never give it up. I think Child Led Weaning is great but I just don't think I can nurse a 4 year old!

That is so funny about Royce making calls! One day my friend called from her cell and asked if we had been trying to call the house. I said once but the voice mail never came on. She said her DH had been on the phone and a bunch of calls from us had come through. I realized that Fiona had been playing with the phone. She checked her caller ID later and told me she called over 10 times! I think she just kept hitting redial and hanging up!!

Mamamillet: glad to hear from you!


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## starling&diesel

I had my ultrasound this morning and it's a go to do our embryo transfer on Friday! Whoo hoo!


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## Everrgreen

Starling - Woohoo!! Lots and lots of baby vibes for you!!!

AK and Cindy - I hope the meds make a difference for both of you and you can get a BFP!!

I think Royce will probably nurse for another year. I think 3 is my limit and I don't think he'll wean on his own before then.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: So excited for you!! Are you nervous? I have a really good feeling you are going to be getting the gift of a lifetime for solstice! And yes of course, we are going for it this month! Expecting to O in the next couple days se we are having ourselves so fun.  And I'm hoping the progesterone prescription this month will make all the difference.

Sue: So exciting that you started clomid! I hope the lower dose works for you! Maybe your body is more sensitive after having a baby. One can always hope!

I picked Makenna up from her 1 morning/week nanny share a bit ago. She had to kiss the little boy goodbye and in the car on the way home she said "XXX is so cute". LOL!!! She seems to get crushes already. On our neighbor and on DH's coworker too.

Cindy


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## mamamillet

So exciting for you mamas trying to have another! I hope with fingers crossed we might be in a place to try next summer or fall...

I think Willa may wean sometime this winter. She only nurses a few minutes at at a time now except for first thing in the am...


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## starling&diesel

That is so cute, Cindy!

Esmé has a little buddy who she's known since they were about four months old (they're two days apart). We were at storytime last week at the library and it was packed. All of a sudden, mid story, Esmé leaps up from my lap, points and waves and says, "Yook! D___ over there, mama! Hi D___! Come here, my best friend, come over here and sit mama's lap with Esmé. Cuddle with Esmé!" He toddled his way through the crowd, the two of them hugged, kissed, then he sat on one of my knees and she sat on the other. She put her arm around him and he leaned his head on her shoulder. He doesn't say a single word yet, but he gazed up at her with complete adoration. Esmé put her hands on his face and said, "I love you, D___."

SO SWEET.

Good luck with your baby-making, Cindy!

And hells bells yes, I'm nervous! And I wish we'd gone out for a night on the town. Now it's too late to enjoy a couple of cocktails and a boogie! Maybe just the boogie. We haven't gone dancing, or to a club, or been out past 9pm in years now!

Gillian ... when it comes to nursing ... if Esmé had her way, I doubt she'd ever stop!

Good luck to the others aiming for BFP's ... E's waking, must dash! More later.


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## AKislandgirl

i love these little love stories! Too cute. Fiona is in love with our neighbor boy He is 7 and loves her back!







Anytime we are outside and she hears his voice she gets all giggly and yells, "I hear Quinn, Mama!" He loves to come over and play with her. He carries her around and she just hugs him and giggles. It's pretty funny.

Fiona has always been an animal lover so we have lots of books with animals in them. She loves to tell us its a Papa Cow, there's a Mama Giraffe, and that's the baby horse. She is also into playing baby these days too. That means she wants to be wrapped up in a blanket and carried cradle style around the house. Then we have to say here is my baby. She loves it. Sometimes she pretends to babble in baby talk but usually she just stays quiet and snuggled up. Too cute!

Favorite Fiona phrase... "hold you Mama" which means hold me Mama


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## mamamillet

Willa also says "hold you mama"!

My fav phrase is "we can do it"! I have a rosie the riveter poster and she flexes her arm and everything!


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## justKate

More whines coming on. I'm starting to feel jealous of you TTCers, but am trying to be patient and think spring, summer... it's not that far off. I'm pretty overwhelmed right now for some reason...lots of work that's getting neglected, because I'm seriously burnt out on my job. My work is suffering. Five months left before I get to be a SAHM for a while, YaY for that. And things are just sort of stressful right now for some reason--my weight is up, so my clothes are not comfy, which is annoying. Huz is having sinus surgery in January, (again) which is a little scary. We are supposed to find out where we're moving in the next month or so, and I'm anxious about the move, and also anticipating family drama if we go further from my parents. We need to rent out our house this spring. My grandma was hospitalized today with one side of her heart beating abnormally. Ugh. Best of all, my best friend just found out that she's due with TWINS in July, and they are moving to Germany in April. This is waaaay too much in one day! I think I'll go to bed early and snuggle in Aubs' hair, and wake up in a better place tomorrow. Poor baby, always being snuggled against her will while she sleeps


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## Mal85

Hugs, Kate. This time of year tends to be a little harder for everyone, I think. The days are too short, it's too cold, and the holidays just make things more stressful.

We're super broke right now, so that's kind of bumming both of us out. We've set aside a little cash to get through the week between the holidays since I'll be off work, but that's making everything else seem tighter than normal for the rest of the month. Luckily, we have almost all of our Christmas shopping done, so at least we don't have to stress about that. But, we do have to come up with the money for my doula training by the Monday after Christmas. Really bad timing for something like that. I thought about putting it off until they hold the workshop in the spring, which would make things easier on us for now, plus the spring isn't a huge spending time for us, so it'd be easier to come up with the money at that time. But, the friend I'm going with is just so excited about it and I didn't want to ruin her excitement by bailing on her. Going next month means there won't be any gifts for me under the tree this year, which is a bummer, but I'll deal.

As for Owyn, she is turning into such a little mommy. She's been into her babies for a while now. I think she'll really love the doll my mom is giving her for Christmas. She brings me playsilks so I can tie them onto her like a sling and she wears her baby around the house. She nurses her baby, but if there's a bottle around she likes to use that too. She wraps her baby up in blankets and will lay on the couch with her saying "Nigh Nigh baby. Shhh.. nigh nigh. Love you. Nigh nigh". It's really adorable. As I'm typing this, she's nursing her baby and whispering "Shhh nigh nigh... shhh".

My favorite Owyn phrase is still "Where dit go?" She has variations on that too "Where did Daddy go?" "Where did da kitty go?". She fully enunciates every word in those sentences, that's what makes it so cute. Our number one conversation is:

O: Mommy, where dit go?

Me: Where'd what go?

O: Where did [insert word] go?

Me: I don't know Owyn, where did it go?

O: I dono. Where dit go?

..... that can go on and on until I finally tell her to go find it, and usually she knows exactly where whatever it was is. She loves to hide things. She puts her cups of milk in our pots and pans all the time. Then, when I'm freaking out about losing a cup full of milk (because gross), she'll go to exactly where she put it and give it to me.

Still TTC here... nothing to report right now. I should be ovulating around Christmas or sometime in the few days before. These long cycles make it really hard to be patient.


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## Everrgreen

Royce likes doing 'where did it go?' too lol! Except his is a concerned look in his face, palms up in the air, and he says 'a go?'

Right now he is really into hockey, he learned the word and he has a little hockey stick and a ball. He loves it. He's my little Canadian stereotype lol! He likes playing with balls in general - throwing, catching, kicking. And on the flip side of that, he also has really taken to his baby doll, he puts it in his wagon for a ride and then covers it with a blanket to go to sleep - so cute  Oh and he likes being read too, but he refuses to look at books on his own.

Unfortunately Royce has also been introduced to tv and he loves it :/ I started with just some baby signing time videos, but he asked to watch them all the time. I try and limit it but I will admit it is really nice to have him entertained for a while. And I've been showing him some different shows too. We get the dvds from the library, he's seen Franklin (liked it), Bob the Builder (not too into this one), and Sesame Street (this is a new one, but he seems to like it). So much for keeping him tv-free until two. I almost made it!

ETA: I forgot I wanted to share Royce's height and weight measurements (I took them today!). He is now 35" tall and is still 27.5lb, I bought him a new carseat because I was so sure he was going to hit the 30lb weight limit of his old one but now he hasn't gained weight in months! Oh well!


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## alaskaberry

AKidlandgirl--X'ing my fingers for you with TTC  And, nursing
a 4 yr old...BTDT and it's not as bad as you'd think(well, it was when I was pg
but I gritted my teeth and did it anyway--and he was only 2 then). So says
the gal who nursed til *she* was 5. :lol

Vegan Princess--best of luck to you in the baby dept as well. 

*McKittre*--Congrats on your movie!! You must be really nervous but I'm sure it will do well.  Will it be available soon? I wonder if UAF will get a copy. The weird thing about the public library in Fairbanks is that they have all these great books and movies set in/filmed by Alaskans...and you can't check them out. And they rarely, if ever, have copies of them that you *can* check out. So that stinks. Sending good labor vibes your way!! Are you planning on having your new LO at home?

*Mal*--sorry about your job.

*Language:* Tucker doesn't talk much--lots of "unh-uh"s, "um-hmm"s and "yup!"s. Mostly says "mine" and "no" and is content to let his big bro do the talking for him!

*PL:* Tuck takes off his diaper and throws it in the bin, then gets a wipe and wipes himself (except with poo). Then he gets a new diaper and we go through it again. Lately he's been watching ds1 use the toilet. Right now we are in VT on vacation but when I get back to Fairbanks I have to buy a honey bucket since ds1 won't use the outhouse. Don't know what a honey bucket is? Yeah, don't ask! Anyway, I'm thinking of getting a chamber pot instead because then the kids can squat instead of sit and that's more natural for you.

Right now we are on "vacation", like I said. We are visiting my folks in Vermont and will spend about 6 weeks here before heading back to Fairbanks for the coldest part of the winter! I guess it's -50F right now though, so I'm glad we're missing that!

I am very envious of all of you who are TTC.


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## Thursday Girl

Kate that is a crazy day, i hope Sweet Aubs and some rest have helped.

Starling how exciting, I guess I have missed a lot of what's going on.

life has been a bit too busy and I haven't exactly been great at keeping up with it.

BUT I am trying to follow along with what's going on with you all.

June is sick now, we were up from 1-4:30isham. She seems to be doing okay during the day, but at night her poor little cough breaks your heart.


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## mckittre

Well, the screenings in Anchorage went great! Sold out both times, and there's a chance they'll run it again at "Best in Fest" at the end of the festival for those who didn't get a chance. And now I'm safely back in Homer, so the baby is welcome to show up any time.

alaskaberry - don't know when we'll get a DVD out (probably after a few festivals), but we might get a showing in Fairbanks sooner - the Alaska Public Lands Information Center said they would be interested in showing it in their winter film lecture series. I can't have the baby at home (unless I was willing to do it totally on my own) since Seldovia's too small to have a midwife. Pretty much everyone is stuck coming to Homer to wait for baby to show up (travel is anything but reliable in December). The nurse midwives who deliver in the hospital here are pretty good though, and the hospital is small, fairly crunchy, and low key.

starling - good luck tomorrow!

Kate - that's a lot at once - hope you feel better soon!

Poor Katmai's just a bit sick, and has gotten really mom-clingy in the last couple days with all the uprooting and traveling, to Homer, to Anchorage, and back to Homer, living in a hotel. I feel bad for him, but right before the new baby is NOT the time I need him to be really clingy!

Katmai's never seen regular TV, but he gets a few minutes of you tube every now and then (once a week or so), and when he sees the computer he's always asking "Go to You Tube and watch monster trucks!"


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## Mal85

Gillian, Owyn really enjoys tv too. We limit it too, but DH and I like to watch tv in the evenings. Usually she's not interested in what we're watching, but she loves the commercials! She's taken to watching Sid the Science Kid before her nap in the afternoon. It's become a way to get her to sit still long enough to get sleepy. Usually, once she calms down enough, I can turn the tv off (once Sid is over) and she'll stay where she is and go to sleep. However, days like today, her tv time runs into the next show (The Dinosaur Train) and she'll fall asleep watching tv. I have two extra kids here today (my nephews) and naptime was a little crazy so I forgot to turn the tv off. Oh well. I had hoped to hold off on tv watching too, but I have to admit I'm enjoying the fact that she'll sit down and watch all the Christmas specials with me. She really loves the Charlie Brown ones!


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: It's not too late - get a sitter and go out tonight! You can still get prego if you're hungover. LOL. ;-) DH and I got in a date night last weekend. So nice bc our last was back in July. So maybe it will be our last for a while.

Thursday: I hope Junes is better soon!

McKittre: I am just home from a friend's house that is 2 days late for baby #2. Baby #1 is the same age as our little ones. Her little one has been crabby and clingy the past few days. My friend thinks she is picking up on the anticipation and nervousness about when the new baby is going to come. Who knows.

Re: TV. Makenna is addicted to elmo. So she gets to watch an elmo video most mornings. And I get to eat and check e-mails, do dishes, clean, etc. She picked out a penguin video at the library this time and really likes it. All the videos come from the library. Oh and she LOVES and begs for her sign language videos lately, even though she knows every sign already.

So Makenna woke up this morning and immediately said "I want go pee pee". And she actually went pee on her potty! She hasn't actually peed in the thing in like 6 months or more! Very exciting way to start the day.


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## AKislandgirl

Grr.. I've tried replying so many times and the reply box is just not working for me. So I'm trying to copy and paste from word.

Starling&#8230; Tomorrow is the big day! I'm so excited for you. Hope all goes well. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Erin&#8230; I'm so glad the festival went well! And glad you are safely in Homer awaiting baby. I hope Katmai feels better soon and that you aren't in the hotel for too long. That has to be hard on everyone.

Kate&#8230; Hope you are feeling better too. I can't imagine knowing I had a move ahead and not knowing where that move would be. I hope you find out soon! Maybe it will be to Kodiak!

TV: Fiona watches TV. Usually its Little Bear or Wonder Pets. Sometimes she watches her signing movies too which she loves. She likes to watch Elmo videos on youtube. I'm fine with it really. She also gets lots of books, art, outside time etc...

no idea why my font ans spacing are so wonky...


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## starling&diesel

Thanks for all the inquiries about tomorrow! I'll let you all know how it goes. We're all set for ten am. Not sure what to do about Esmé. She's coming with us as my mom and sister are busy tomorrow. Esmé freaked out at the u/s and begged to nurse. Out loud. "Nurse, mama! I wanna nurse num-nums, please mama, nurse!" This, after the RE expressly told us to wean.

I am exhausted (14 hour shift on the ambulance), and so will try to do personals tomorrow when I'm sitting around with my feet up, willing the embies to stick! Hmm. Not sure what to do with Esmé for that either! Might have to let her have a sheet of stickers. That's always good for a half hour or so.

Thanks again for all the well wishes. I'll keep you posted!

ps. Cindy, I totally was into going out last minute but I think the hormones are kicking my butt. I could barely get through my shift! I'm glad you and your hubby had a great time!


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## AKislandgirl

Yeah! Today is the day! Sticky vibes coming your way Starling!









Want to know the lame thing I'm worried about today? We are going to DH's Christmas party at work this evening. I have a beautiful dress that someone gave us for Fiona to wear. Only no shoes! I just can't bear to pay for expensive dress shoes that she will only wear a couple of times. I don't know what to put her in. We don't have a payless or anything like that to get cheep shoes. Besides that she all but refuses to wear anything but her Padraigs anyway. Hmm... A fancy party dress and Padraigs. Well if anyone can pull it off its Fiona I guess! Why do I care about such silly things?!

And TTCers. Do you know about this web site for getting ovulation and pregnancy tests? It is way cheaper then buying at the drugstore. Just wanted to pass it on. I'm also going to try using their pre-seed formula too.

Today we are off to run around the Teen Center for a new toddler play time. It should be fun. We went once a couple of weeks ago and Fiona had a blast. I had a chance to meet some new moms too which is always fun.


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## Everrgreen

Am I the only one that see's part of AK's second last message in symbols? All the stuff after the note to Kate is in some symbol language.... weird!

AK - go with the padraigs, Fiona will pull it off!

Starling - I hope you got a good rest last night for your big day today!! I'm thinking about you! Lots of super sticky vibes!!!

And Esme's desire to nurse at the appt got me thinking, those of you still nursing - do you still nurse in public? I've noticed that I very rarely will nurse Royce if we're in public, I usually try and distract him with something else. I think I'm worried about people not approving because he's such a big boy! Although I still nurse in front of friends/family, and in the past week I had to nurse him at a legal appt because he asked and I knew it would keep him quiet long enough to get through the appt and then also at the library because he hurt himself. Just curious what others are doing..

mckittre - I'm glad your screenings went well! I watched the preview on your website, I wish I could see the whole thing! It looks really interesting!

Also, I wonder if Katmai's clinginess is his own sense of things coming soon? Whether it's on his own or picking up your feelings/anxiousness. Royce tends to be very sensitive to my emotions.

We have had a lazy couple of days here. We were supposed to go to swimming lessons this morning, but I feel like I may be getting a cold. And we slept in so I would have had to rush to get there and it just didn't happen. Oh well! I don't mind a lazy day now and then  We should be *finally* getting some snow this weekend (we've had flurries but nothing has stayed on the ground). I can't wait to play in the snow with Royce!!


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## starling&diesel

We're back from the clinic! We put two embryos in, one 'good' one and one that is slightly less than 'good.' I hope that all equals out to one healthy baby!

Esmé couldn't manage to be in the room with me along with all the 'scary' equipment and people in paper hats and paper booties and masks. She had to leave and hang out with DP in the other room, where the nurse gave her a box of apple juice and a cookie, which thrilled her to no end!

I'm very much at peace this time, unlike last time when so much was on the line. I truly feel that Esmé was a miracle, and that this baby would be a gift. Here's to the two-week-wait!

I have three shifts on the ambulance already booked during the next two weeks, but am thinking I might bail on them, just so that I know that I've done everything to get this baby to stick. Not sure. I know that heavy lifting is fine for the baby, just not sure that I'd feel okay if the embies didn't stick ... i might feel that I should've not worked. Can't really afford the 'holiday,' but might have to in order to make me feel like we did our best to give the embies a chance. Thoughts?

*Gillian* ... I still nurse in public, but only if I feel comfortable. So, not on the bus anymore, and rarely in restaurants at the dinner table (unless it's a super crunchy place), but often in the library, or at the park, or at friend's houses, or stores. All depends. I do try to get her to wait. Especially because we're trying to reduce the times she's nursing. But if she's hurt or scared, she can nurse. We just need to find a place that's comfy.

*Mckittre* ... congratulations on your celluloid baby! I want to see the whole thing too!

*AK* ... Go for the Padraigs! I once bought Esmé a pair of cute robeez Mary Jane's for a wedding when she was about six months old, and she hated them and didn't want them on, and I ended up selling them for a loss and I wished I'd just put her in the Padraigs in the first place. No one will care and everyone will think it's cute!

*Thursday* ... is Juniper feeling any better? Sleeping any better?


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## Mal85

Yay Starling, sending sticky vibes your way!!

I'm feeling much more relaxed this month about TTC. I think mostly because I had my heart set on a summer baby and that's probably not going to happen now anyway, so I might as well stop stressing about it. My sister says I should shoot for 11/11/11 for a birthday!

About shoes... I'd like to say I'd just put her in whatever shoes we have, but I have a bit of an obsession with her shoes.







DH says I'm going to make her have a shoe fetish because she has soooo many shoes. Most of them are hand me downs from my sister, but I still pick up a pair every now and then when I just can't resist! I really want to get her a pair of Ugg knock off boots for Christmas. She loooooves the pair my daycare girl has and asks to try them on all the time. I refuse to pay more than $20 for her shoes though, she just doesn't wear them long enough to justify spending more than that for now. I'm hoping I can find some!

Is anyone else as excited for Christmas as I am? Owyn doesn't understand what's going on, but she loves the decorations and seeing lights on all the houses. We're going to cut down our tree this weekend and she is really into trees right now, so I know she'll be so excited to have one in our house! I just can't wait to have Christmas morning with her. I know she doesn't understand enough to get excited about it ahead of time, but this year she'll totally get how exciting it is while it's happening!

We actually have weather above 50 degrees today and only one daycare kiddo, so we're headed to the park to take advantage as soon as they get up from their nap!


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## Vegan Princess

Just a quickie here!

Starling - so nice that it is done and you might be getting prego as I type this!  When will you test? I am guessing it could be only a matter of days before you'd know since you don't have to wat 3-5 days for it to make it down the tubes? So excitng! Also, Makenna asked to nurse at the dr this week and she hasn't nursed in almost 2 months. So it's no biggie that she asked, especially if they think she is newly weaned.

Sue: I've used that site. But now I buy from amazon. It's even cheaper and I think the same exact thing. I used preseed last month and I conceived. Who knows if it made the difference. Using it again this month too.

Gillian: At the end, I tried not to nurse in public a lot but if I needed to, I did and I didn't care what people thought. I did feel like people were starting to look at me a bit. BUt I am lucky that extended BFing is sort of the norm in this part of California. So it's no big deal. A lot of my playgroup is still nursing and we aren't even an AP playgroup...just a random group of moms that mostly happens to be AP.

Ok, off to get my mom from the airport!

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Cindy ... I think I'll POAS on Solstice. That way, if it's a BFP, it'll be a very special day. And if it's a BFN, well, the darkest night of the year is good for rituals both happy and sad. Not sure if I can resist POAS before then. Last time I got a raging positive 9 days after the transfer. We shall see!

Totally different doing this with a toddler in tow. Can't lie in bed all afternoon and read. We've already been outside twice, and of course, I'm picking her up all the time and still nursing. Long gone are the me days, eh?


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## AKislandgirl

Solstice sounds like a fabulous day to test! I think I would cancel those work days too. Then you'd know you gave it your absolute best shot possible. I'm so excited for you!

The part I wrote about that you couldn't read... TV. We let F watch a little each day. Usually Little Bear, Little Bill or Wonder Pets. I just have a few episodes of each on our DVR. She also likes her signing time videos now and again. She loves Elmo but not Sesame Street so we sometimes do youtube videos with Elmo. She loves one with Fiest in it singing about the number 4. She sings along to it. So we are OK with a bit of TV but it certainly is not on for hours. She does a lot of play dates, outside time, art projects, etc...

Nursing in public: I still do but she doesn't ask too often. When she does I know she is getting tired. She did ask at the play date we were at this AM. First she said, "go home nunu couch". I told her we would be going home soon so she decided she'd rather just have nunu there. I'm still fine with nursing her pretty much wherever we are.


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## mamamillet

So funny Sue, we call it nunu too (I know its somewhat common) and Willa's way of asking is usually "nunu couch nunu couch" all while shaking her head yes...

We rarely nurse out in public..maybe a couple times a month at the library, park or zoo. She is usually too distracted...though she will ask on the way home when its no longer an option.

Sticky vibes coming to you starling!


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## Everrgreen

Starling - Oh yay! How exciting!! And I vote for cancelling your shifts, just for your own peace of mind 

I love all the names little ones come up with for nursing. Royce mostly just looks at me with puppy eyes, says 'mama?' and does the milk sign. Sometimes he will also get his hands in there or try and lift up my shirt.

I am excited about Christmas too. I actually already gave Royce his big present, it's a play slide. He was sooo excited to get it. It was awesome  I gave it to him early because we are going to my moms for Christmas and so I couldn't bring it with me. And I was just eager to give it to him. But he has a couple other things for under the tree and of course my mom will have stuff for him.


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## AKislandgirl

Mama's... i got a positive ovulation test! And only on 50mg of clomid!!! I'm so excited!!!!

We put our tree up yesterday during a snow storm. It was so beautiful. Fiona kept trying to blow the lights out like they were candles on a birthday cake. Too Cute. She keeps trying to take the ornaments off though... uggh. It was fun to wake up with her this morning and bring her out to the tree all lit up! I love Christmas!! I think Christmas morning is going to be a blast this year with her! Can't wait!


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## Mal85

We put our tree up yesterday too, Sue. It was sooo bitterly cold out, but we bundled up and braved the cold and the wind and went out to cut down our tree and bring it home. We waited for her to take a nap before we decorated. She had so much fun "helping" put the lights and garland on. Then, we got out all the ornaments she was given last year and she helped me put them on the tree. Now, her whole life revolves around that tree. She had to tell it bye bye and give it a kiss before we left for church this morning! And, if we are home, the lights must be on.

I am loving Christmas time with her this year. Last year, she was old enough to be interested in it all, but she was just observing everything that was going on. This year she is discovering Christmas and it is so awesome to watch her discover the joy and magical feeling that comes with Christmas, I love it!!

Today it's bitterly cold again and we got about 2 inches of snow last night. Not much, but enough for Owyn to see what snow is again!


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## Thursday Girl

erin, I have been thinking abot you for days! Can't wait to hear about your new little bean. As for clinginess, I have found my kids to get clingy before an impending birth.

Starling sending you sticky vibes!!!

Christmas- I love christmas. i think we are going to get our tree today since my hubs is FINALLY back in town, and for about 5 days! I just made Junipers christmas stocking two days ago. I like to wait until their second christmas so i can get an idea of what they like. June fell in love with fabric at joanns, so she actually picked it out herself.

TV- Junes doesn't like tv, although sometimes I wish she did as trying to get anything done can be difficult. well i guess i have found i can get her to watch about 15 minutes of monsters inc, and she will watch sesame street if they are singing, but only for 2 songs. It feels weird trying to get her to watch tv. oh well.

sickness- June and I are recovering. hooray! now to recover my house from the horrible mess it has become.

nursing in public- yes, anywhere and everywhere. with my first at this age i wasn't b/c my husband thought it made other peopel uncomfortable and out of respect for him I didn't unless she was really upset. (since he was recpecting my descion to nurse for an "extended" period of time). Now if someone where to say dsomehting to me I'd let them have it.

I am waiting for my friend to call and let me know if her IVF worked. this was her one chance at it after years of trying. praying praying that she is pregnnt!!!


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## justKate

Wow! So much going on.

Courtney and Cindy, I have an Elmo addict. It drives me crazy. She learned about Elmo at daycare (they watch Sesame Street for the first 20 mintues of the day or something), and started pointing him out around the house. I didn't even know we had any Elmo, but she found him on one of her toothbrushes, and on a toy cell phone that Grandma sent. So now everything is "MELMO! MELMO!" And honestly, I can't stand Sesame Street, especially Big Bird. We don't have cable, so all of our tv comes off of iTunes, so we're sort of limited. Right now we have a season of Wonder Pets, a season of Backyardigans, and the movie Elmo in Grouchland. The movie isn't as bad as the tv shows...and the songs are actually pretty okay.

Courtney and Erin, hope Junes and Katmai feel better soon.

Sue, hooray for + OPKs! Go make a baby! I'm going to order from your etsy site as soon as my friend finds out the sex of her twins. They're in colorado and would love the little bear onesies! Re. shoes, I would just put her in whatever. Slippers, maybe. I try to keep Aubs in 2 pair: sneakers (gray/pink) and "dressier" shoes (fushia mary jane-type). I guess if we move somewhere cold we would need boots too.

Starling, I couldn't wait. I'm super excited for you, and I wouldn't blame you one bit if you can't wait until Solstice!

Gillian, I wish I had snow to play in. We got a tiny bit one day last year, but Aubs just stood there in shock and didn't do anything. It's sort of the same reaction she had to the Christmas tree--like, "You guys are crazy. I'm going to play with Melmo. Peace." I know how you feel about the swimming lessons. We're doing classes at the Little Gym (don't ask me why) and sometimes its a PITA to actually go, especially when I'm not in the mood. I hope the cold stayed away and that you're feeling okay.

Re. pottying, Aubs is holding her bladder forever. It's like she's refusing to empty it, but also refusing to sit on the potty. So I think I'm just going to ignore it for a while and we'll try again in a few weeks. The pottying and the cosleeping are the two things that scare me about having another baby. The logistics of it, you know? We're sort of doing an apathetic version of FAM right now, so it's in the back of my mind..."what if they both cry; what would I do with the baby when Aubs poops in the tub on purpose?" That kind of thing. Sigh.

Five months of work left for me! Hopefully we move somewhere with either a low cost of living or no jobs so that I can SAH for a good long while. II know it's not all roses, but I'm so excited about it!


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: 5 months will go so fast! So nice that you have staying home to look forward to on the horizon.

Sue: Yay!! I so hope this low dose is all you need! And if we both get prego this month, we'll be due on the same day. I got my + OPK on Saturday too. Now the dreaded 2 week wait! UGH! At least we'll know by Christmas!

Makenna went potty a couple more times this weekend while my mom was here. But nothing for the last 2 days. I guess it's big progress. She even made her first poop on the potty for grandma to watch. LOL. The kid wants everyone, including the cats, to watch her go. 

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Cindy and Sue ... welcome to the two week wait! Best of luck and sticky baby vibes for you both!









Thursday ... any news about your friend?

JustKate ... Five months will fly by. We'll be SAHM at the same time, if this is a BFP. I'm not allowed on the ambulance past thirty weeks or so.

AFM: So nauseas, and a bonus of diarrhea too (sorry, TMI). Sense of smell is heightened and can't stand certain sounds (chewing) which were both symptoms last time. So nauseas. Did I mention that. So nauseas. And it is so hard being nauseas with a nearly 2 year old who just wants to climb all over me and nurse, or at the very least read her the same book a million times over. So nauseas. Either this is a definite BFP or I have the flu. Which is also possible, being that it's going around.


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## Everrgreen

Starling - yay yay yay for nausea!!! lol! I'm sure it is not the flu! Still thinking of you and sending you lots of sticky vibes!!!!

Cindy and Sue - Lots of sticky vibes for you too!!

I'm so jealous of all your ttc-ers! I can't wait until you all get BFPs


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## Everrgreen

Grrrr, I just typed up a second reply but it disappeared!!

Starting over now...

We finally got some snow!! I took Royce out to play in it and he sort of liked it, he wasn't sure at first but overall he liked it. BUT, his snowsuit is too small. It is a hand-me-down Columbia one piece. I'm so disappointed. I squeezed him into it today but he will need a new one. I'm going to see if the local children's consignment store has one, although they are probably picked over by now :/ Oh well!

Kate - I'm sure your 5 months will fly by! How exciting though to be moving to a whole new place and you still don't know where! I think I would like an adventure like that. Although I'm sure it gets old if you're moving a lot.

I'm feeling ok about Royce's tv. I am still working on limiting it, but today he only watched his Sesame Street dvd once while I was getting showered/dressed. So that's pretty good. My mom will be giving him a Thomas the train dvd for Christmas, I hope that ones ok. I also like the signing time videos although I always get the songs stuck in my head which is annoying 

Royce fell asleep at 7pm tonight (extremely unusual for him!). He is so going to wake up at 9 or 10 and want to stay up til midnight. Ugh! Fingers crossed that he stays asleep!


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## AKislandgirl

i figured out if I hit clear before typing, the reply box actually works as it should for me. Don't know if that will help anyone else. Is there someone to report "we lose posts, and the reply box won't let me edit" to?

Starling: Yeah! I'm so excited that you are nauseas! LOL This is such a good sign! How in the world are you going to wait till Solstice to test?! I love the romance of testing on Solstice but I just don't know if I could hold out. Yeah for babies!!!

I am trying not to get to out of control with this TTC thing. I keep putting up my protective guards and reminding myself how many freaking cycles of clomid it took to get Fiona. Then I remind myself that plenty of people get pregnant on their first cycle of clomid. (they do you know! crazy!) And then I get to looking at due date calculators and I just need to stop!!! Just do the deed and hope for the best. Sheesh.


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## Everrgreen

Royce is sick this morning  Probably why he crashed at 7pm last night. I have a mild cold with a cough and early this morning Royce woke up coughing a little, I didn't think anything of it other than 'he's got my cold' but then he threw up on me :/ So I got us both cleaned up, cleaned the bed up, etc. And then within about 30 minutes he was gagging again but not much came up. I'm hoping it's just gagging from the cough of the same cold I have. Please please please don't let this be a stomach bug!! He is cuddled up on the couch watching tv now, he looks pale and really sad - it breaks my heart! And I'm hiding in the kitchen eating, I don't know if his tummy is ready for food so I didn't want him to see me eating!

Uh oh, before I could even hit submit for the above Royce started crying again, so I went to him and he was sick again (although his tummy is pretty much empty now, so mostly just a lot of heaving)  Okay, my new wish is please please please let him get over this quickly and please please please let me NOT get it too!


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## Thursday Girl

my friend got a bfp! so happy for her.

i HATE elmos world but like all the rest of sesame street. junes likes sesame street. mostly the books and charcthers (the busch gardens in our town has a sesame street bit in it) so we got her an old school fisher price sesame street playset from the 70's for christmas.

i am so excited for all you ttc'rs, it is exciting to witness the process of enlarging families. although personally i am looking forward to my kids getting big enough that i can begin working as a birth or post partum doula and eventually becoming a midwife. I want to be around birth and babies without adding another one tp my family.


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## starling&diesel

*Gillian* ... Poor Royce! I hope he's feeling better as the day goes on. And that you don't catch it, Gillian!

Remember the BRAT diet for barfiness. Bananas, Rice, Applesauce and Toast. All good things for ailing tummies.

*Thursday* ... Wonderful about the bfp for your friend! Prayers for a sticky baby and a healthy pregnancy!

*Sue* ... I'm counting on the romance of testing on the Solstice to keep me sticking to my guns. Not sure if it'll work though! Seven more sleeps! ACK!


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## Vegan Princess

Thursday: So happy for your friend! And it is an exciting prospect to be getting closer to being able to do things for you again. That prospect seems so far off for me.

Gillian: Poor Royce! I think the stomach flu has to be one of the worst things ever. I am dreading Makenna ever getting it! I hope it passes quickly and that you stay healthy. At least you have family close by now, in case you do catch it.

Starling: OMG!! Can the nausea be from the progesterone? I hope it's a true preg. symptom. I doubt the progesterone would make you so nauseous. Were you very sick with Esme? You know, if you are having symptoms this intense already, you could probably take a test now. I'm just sayin. 

No big news here. I'm hosting a cookie exchange tomorrow for all my mom friends. Expecting 9 moms and 9 babies (not counting us)! That's a lot of cookies. Makenna is giddy over the prospect of not only seeing all her friends but getting to eat cookies! We'll be baking our cookies this afternoon and she is so excited. She has to help me with whatever I'm cooking. Anyway, not sure why I'm hosting a cookie exchange when I really need to be watching what I eat. I finally put on a few lbs since weaning. I would like to nip that in the bud!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Royce is doing a lot better after having a nap earlier. He has kept down toast and juice, his colour is back, and I gave him a bubble bath and he played happily. So, I don't want to jinx it, but I think he's on the mend! And now he's nursing so maybe he'll have another nap, hopefully 

Cindy - I can't believe Makenna hasn't had a stomach bug yet! This is Royce's second one (we both had one in the spring), and if I get it will be my third this year! I think we need to just never leave the house.


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## AKislandgirl

Thursday, exciting news for your friend!

I sure hope Royce is feeling better and that you don't get it Gillian! Fiona has never thrown up although she had a diarrhea sickness once. She has had A LOT of colds though. Ugh, no fun when babies are sick. Here is to a speedy recovery!

Any baby news Erin?!!!!


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## Mal85

So glad Royce is feeling better, Gillian. Owyn had a stomach bug when she was about 10 months old, hasn't had one since then, but it was no fun for any of us and both DH and I had it by the end of that day. She was feeling better, but had to be shipped off to my ILs so DH and I could get it out of our systems. That was just awful. I hope we never have that happen again!

Starling, I can't wait for Solstice, I think I need you test ASAP. Lol! I'm impatiently waiting for good news!!

Courtney, I am on my first and I already look forward to the days when we have kids in the house instead of babies. I can't wait to take camping trips and trips to amusement parks with my actual kids! When they'll all be old enough to fully enjoy it and I won't have to worry about nursing the baby or making sure the baby gets a nap or how much is too much excitement for the baby. I love gazing at my baby all day long and cuddling and nursing, but I can't wait to just experience fun things with all my kids! Have to finish having them first though!

I'm a little jealous of you, Cindy and Sue, already ovulating. My late ovulation makes me soooo impatient. We all started our periods at the same time, but I'm not ovulating yet. I expect I will sometime next week, if I ovulate this month. I'm actually much less stressed about it this month than I have been. I had my heart set on a summer baby, but that's not going to happen now, so now I really don't care when it happens... just hoping for sooner rather than later!

Finishing up the very last details of my Christmas shopping tonight while Owyn goes to play with her favorite cousin. I have to get goodie bags put together for my daycare/play group Christmas party next week. And buy ingredients for the cupcakes I'm making. I'm taking a recipe for rainbow cake and only using green/red food coloring to have Christmas cupcakes, just hoping they turn out as delicious as it looks! This weekend will be filled with wrapping presents and cleaning the house to get it ready for the party. I can't believe next week is already the week of Christmas! I can't wait! My birthday is 3 days after the holiday, then there's New Year's, so I get my whole year of exciting parties and fun in one week. Must be why it's my favorite time of year!


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## alaskaberry

*Gillian*--poor Royce! I'm glad he's feeling better. Tucker had the stomach bug the week of Thanksgiving and he was *not* a happy camper. - re Thomas the Train: my ds1 is *obsessed* with Thomas, so watch out! The wooden tracks are awesome, but Thomas gear is soooo pricey.

*TV-*-Tucker loves Teletubbies & Curious George but he doesn't watch them for very long. A good thing, I think!

*NIP*--anytime, anywhere. Esp helpful on the airplane!

*Christmas*--I just bought the kids their presents, there was a big sale at one of the online natural-toy stores and I kind of went crazy! Ok, not that crazy, I didn't spend that much(although it feels like it when you buy a bunch of stuff, even if it's all on sale







). I got Tucker a kazoo--I'll be paying for that for awhile, I think.


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## mckittre

Wow, such an exciting time! I'm wishing sticky baby vibes for all of you that need them. I'm glad I found out late enough with both pregnancies that I never had to go through that agonizing wait period.

Katmai's still got a cold - a lingering cough at least. I'm not sure how much of the clingyness is that, how much is some sense of impending upheaval for the new baby coming, and how much is just that we've moved him into a hotel in a different town and disrupted all his usual routines. I've been trying to give him as much attention as I can. But he's nursing like a newborn again, which makes me nervous what I'll do with a newborn as well! I do nurse him in public sometimes (but also distract him sometimes). His favorite way to ask is to yell "You (I) want some nursing!" wherever he is. And then he'll proceed to tell me exactly where I should sit to nurse him.

Christmas: trying to deliberately not think about it much, since I don't know if I'll have a baby yet, or be home yet, etc...

I hate due dates. My due date is Friday. And everyone's been asking me about it as if they expect me to just go and have a baby on Friday. I think people know that it's much less predictable than that, but the word "due date" sets up some expectations of precision that don't match the reality of birth. I'm trying to be at peace with not knowing, even if it's easy to be impatient.


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## Vegan Princess

McKittre: I hope you aren't too uncomfortable? Hope that baby comes soon so you can cuddle up at home!

My friend finally had her baby today. 8 days late. Had to get induced yesterday. Not sure wy...but she had been scheduled for induction today. So I'm guessing something was going on or they wouldn't have done it a day earlier. Don't know any details of the birth. But I am very excited for them! Planning to bring over a plate of cookies from the cookie exchange on Thursday. And maybe catch a glimpse of the little guy. Or not so little. She was expecting a 10 lber!

No stomach bug yet (knock on wood!). But a few bouts of diarrhea that lasted a while and many many colds and fevers and croup. Blah. Still think it's better to be out exploring the world than hiding inside though. And I guess that is the price you pay.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Mkittre* ... you poor dear! I can't imagine the waiting for that long away from home! With Esmé, we came down for a routine visit, then ended up getting induced the next day, so were only away from home for a few days. I cannot imagine being away from the comforts of home. Come soon, little one! Be home for Christmas!

*Cindy* ... Hope all is better with tummies at your house!

I'm pretty sure that my sudden symptoms were the flu, and not necessarily related to hopefully being pregnant. I feel a-okay today. Hmph.


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## Everrgreen

Starling - well that sucks that you're feeling better  BUT, if I remember right, pregnancy symptoms can come and go a lot in the beginning because your hormones are all over the place. So I don't think you should assume it was the flu just yet. I'm still thinking of you and sending you lots of sticky vibes!!

McKittre - Sending you lots of quick and easy labour vibes!! I agree, it must be difficult to be going through everything far from home, especially with Christmas coming up. You still have over a week though and that baby could come any minute now 

As for me, so far I am not sick. I think I may have bypassed this one, which I am soooo thankful for!

It's going to (hopefully) be a while before I'm done with babies. I really would love to have at least one more baby and more if possible. But I'm starting from scratch now and first I have to actually meet someone to have babies with. Although I haven't even been on a single date so I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to meet someone. Royce will be years older than his siblings, which sucks. But I guess that's just life.


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## justKate

Ah, Gillian, but you never know where life is going to take you. Are you feeling ready to date now? I think the idea of a date is exhilirating...a reason to shave my legs!


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## Everrgreen

Ready to date? I don't know. I think so. It totally freaks me out though. My now stbx was my high school sweetheart and we were friends who eventually became boyfriend/girlfriend. So I've never actually dated before. I guess I'm hoping the right person will just stumble into my life, although I think I need to start doing things besides playing mommy for that to happen!


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## Nillarilla

Wow so much going on.

I haven't even started Christmas shopping lol. I'm more of a marathon last minute shopper although I swear I will change that every year. I would have done some this week but my sitter is taking the week to paint her cupboards so I couldn't ask her for an extra day. This is the first year we are doing Christmas gluten free, soy free and casein free so the baking has been taking up a lot of my time. My mom might be driving up tommorow or the next day and staying until boxing day or so. This will be her longest visit so we shall see if I survive. At least there's rum and nog.

I'm so excited for you TTC'ers. If I don't get into school this fall we will be getting pg. I still don't feel ready to be pg but I would love another bundle. Although some days I barely hang onto my sanity.

PLing we took the plunge and are only using dipes at nights and naps. However she still cries when she has to go and when she is going. After it's over she's all happy but it's like she's terrified to pee. I'm wondering if it hurts or something because of all her allergies and whatnot she seems to have really strong pee. I thought it was her diapers but now I don't think so. I'm going to try pushing fluids to see if that makes it any easier and maybe a probiotic.

McKittre thinking of you and your little ones.

I hope all the sick toddlers are feeling better.


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## mckittre

I'm officially "due" today. But that means exactly nothing, of course. I'm hoping sometime in the next few days, but trying to be zen about it. And I've decided that no one is allowed to feel sorry for me being stuck away from home. Including myself.  I'm having a healthy pregnancy so far, expecting a wonderful little baby, and I just need to relax and enjoy that. Baby will come when he/she is ready, and my calendar-based plans for one year don't mean much in the big picture of things.

Nilla - wow, gone beyond diapers! I think we could have started doing that with Katmai, since he was starting to get good about peeing in the potty. But since we had to leave home to wait for the new baby, and we'll have a new baby soon, and we didn't even bring his potty here, we regressed back to all diapers all the time instead.

Starling - crossing fingers for you! I never really felt sick at the beginning with either of mine - so an absence of symptoms doesn't mean much either.

Both my husband and I have picked up some of Katmai's cough, but we're otherwise all good. And the cough doesn't seem to bother him too much, except a bit at night.


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## Thursday Girl

well I just got a call from my friends DH. She is being taken into surgery, the pregnancy was ectopic. Please keep her in your thoughts.


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## starling&diesel

I replied to you in the IVF thread. So sorry. So sorry.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thursday Girl*
> 
> well I just got a call from my friends DH. She is being taken into surgery, the pregnancy was ectopic. Please keep her in your thoughts.


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## AKislandgirl

Thursday Girl: I'm so sorry to hear about your friend.

McKittre: I think you have a great attitude about your upcoming birth and being away from home. I hope you are taking many trips to 3 Sisters bakery to get treats during your wait. I love that place! I would probably be there everyday if it were me! Where will Katmai be during labor and delivery? Do you have friends or family in Homer? Here is hoping you only have a few more days!

Well, Fiona and I have had a tough week. She isn't sleeping well and has been prone to meltdowns and a couple full on tantrums this week. I'm not sleeping well and not handling the meltdowns and tantrums very gracefully either. I don't like this. I think she needs more exercise then she has been getting. It has been super windy and cold here though so I haven't taken her out much. It's hard to stay out in 60 MPH winds!! Today we went to our playgroup where she had a chance to run hard and do ride on toys. I thought she'd get a good nap in. She fell asleep right away when we got home... it lasted half an hour. Grrr... I really hope that we can get over this hump and I get my happy girl back. I also wish I knew what was going on with her. Sigh, this parenting thing is hard work!!!

Went to the clinic to do bloodwork today. I'll know Monday if the test was right and if I'm really ovulating. Trying hard not to obsess over it. I hate the 2 week wait! How are you guys holding up Cindy and Starling? When do you plan on testing Cindy? I can't decide if I should test on Christmas or not. I may wait till the day after. AAAGH! I want to know NOW! ok, calming down now...


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## Vegan Princess

Thursday: Oh no! Prayers being said for your friend! How does IVF end up ectopic? I thought they put it in your uterus? Maybe I am wrong.

Starling: How are you feeling?

Sue: Sorry about the sleep troubles. We've had some here too. I think I blame teeth coming in on our end. They seem to be getting a bit better. I say that after Makenna woke up 2 hours early this morning. As for playing - do you guys have any indoor play places you could go to? We don't have to cold and snow like you guys have but we get rain and chilly weather enough to make the park no fun. So I think Makenna is getting a monthly pass to an indoor play space nearby from her grandpa! I'm super excited about that. They charge $18 per visit so we never ever go.

5 dpo here. I am taking progesterone. My instructions from my dr were to take a pregnancy test when I am 16 or 17 dpo! Yeah right! I think I'm going to test on Wednesday before we head to the airport to go to DH's mom's for xmas. That would be 11 dpo. I got a negative test with Makenna was 11 dpo but got my positives with my chemical last month at 11 dpo. So who knows. I don't feel prego at all but I didn't w/Makenna and last month I was just super emotional for a couple days (not this early though).

Cindy


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## mckittre

Courtney - I'm sorry about your friend! I hope she's OK.

I just learned today that a mom friend of mine lost her baby today at 4 months pregnant. She went in for a routine checkup, and they couldn't find the heartbeat, and ended up finding out on ultrasound that the baby was gone. I feel so sad for her! I don't know her super well, so I'm struggling with what I should say. I want to call tomorrow and say something, but I worry that as someone waiting to have a baby at any moment I'll be a painful reminder of what she just lost.

AK - I am going to two sisters all the time.  It's hard to be as frugal as normal in this situation, and those pastries are good!

We've been taking lots of walks down to the beach and such, even though it's fairly cold here 10-15ish. Katmai will walk a half mile or so at a time these days, but he's so slow, it's hard for me to be patient, rather than force him onto my back before he's tired.


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## nighten

Hi, all! Just popping in to say hello.  Eowyn's doing great and continues to be a super easy little one. She's got a cold right now (well, we all do), but other than a little fussiness, all is well.

Here's a recent picture of her:



Hope everyone is having a lovely holiday season!


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## Vegan Princess

Nighten! So nice to hear from you. Your little ones are precious. I hope the cold passes soon for all of you. You should stop by a little more often.  What is Eowyn into these days?

We are putting another offer on yet another house today. I hate waiting to know if we are getting it or not. This is our 6th offer! So I'm not getting my hopes up. Keep your fingers crossed for us please!!

Makenna is in the kitchen "washing dishes". Its one of her favorite things to do right now. It keeps her busy for very long stretches of time!

Cindy


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## nighten

Thanks, Cindy. Eowyn loves puzzles, playing with trains, coloring, anything musical, and the little wooden kitchen. And nursing. And Little Bear and Kipper.







Mostly she wants to be doing whatever her sister's doing. She's pretty good with independent play, which is good, because Guinevere doesn't always want to share what she's doing...

Sorry I haven't been around in a long while. I needed a break from the board, but missed you mamas!


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## AKislandgirl

Nighten! So fun to hear from you! I've often wondered where you disappeared to. Glad to have you back 

Fiona's last tooth has finally cut through! I swear this girl takes forever to get a tooth in once is starts bothering her. The good news is that she usually has a harder time before it begins to cut through the gum then when it is actually cutting through her gum. And this is the last one!! Hurray! This probably explains our sleeping problems lately. But what will I blame her grumpy moods on now that teething is behind us?!









I'm so sorry to hear about your friends loss McKittre. It is so hard to know the right thing to say. My coworkers wife lost their baby at about 4-5 months when I was pregnant with Fiona. I felt so sad for them and really self concience about my pregnancy. I hope you find a way to help.

Cindy: good luck on the house offer. It is such a time of waiting isn't it?! Let us know on both fronts!!


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## Mal85

Nighten, so glad to see you! I've missed you since our DDC, Eowyn is really adorable!

We've had a busy weekend here trying to get ready for Christmas. This whole week will actually be pretty busy. I underestimated how much planning I would need to do for the daycare/play group party I'm hosting. Next year, I'll have to get on the ball with it sooner! But I am glad for the 4 day week with the kids, then I have a whole week off for the holidays. I have big plans for re-organizing the play area and having it ready before the kids come back. Just hope I can get it all done!

Starling: I can't wait to hear from you with *hopefully* good news! Solstice is close!

Cindy: Hope you get good news on the house!

Mckittre: So sorry to hear about your friend's loss.

Thursday: Very sorry about your friend as well.

... they're both in my thoughts.


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## Everrgreen

Welcome back Nighten!!

Everyone has so much going on!! I'm thinking good thoughts for all of you! And anxiously awaiting news from Starling and McKittre!!

We are visiting at my mom's house now until after Christmas - yay! She is moving into a new house tomorrow so we are helping with the unpacking.

I've been suffering through what seems to be an allergic reaction the last couple days. Although I've never had an allergy before so it's sort of weird. But I've had itching, rashes, and swollen hands and feet. The only thing I can think of that I did differently is eating kale, I'd never had it before but had some Thursday night and Friday for lunch. On Thursday night I had a few patches of red burning/itching on my face and I thought it was a cream I used (not new, but hadn't used it since the spring). Then the rest of me started itching Friday night and is still going. Although I finally got some allergy meds and they are helping.

Royce is now 23 months old as of yesterday. Less than a month until he is TWO!!


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## Thursday Girl

Erin, I'm sorry about your friend. I never do know what to say. I just texted her and told her I was here whenever she needed me, she later called and said that made her feel good just knowing I cared.

Nighten, welcome back!

Mal, I'm the head of booster club at my girls school and every event I say "i need to start planning sooner" and everytime I begin, then stop, and do it all last minute.

Junie is cutting FOUR teeth right now, all of her canines.

the girls and I are doing a little solstice celebration tomorrow. making sun bread, reading sunbread, making gingerbread houses and opening some presents. Unfortunatley my husband is out of town again. he is a 16 hour drive away and is planning on leaving on the 23rd. I am really hoping he gets home in time. He might end up just having to fly home. We are supposed to have christmas eve brunch with my mom, then drive to my dad's and spend the night. Which I am really excited about. It will be neat to wake up christmas morning with one of my parents there.


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## starling&diesel

Hi *Nighten*! So nice to hear from you!

*Mckittre* ... How about a Solstice baby? Or tonight? There's a lunar eclipse tonight! How cool would that be? You might have to word in a lunar name in the line-up somewhere.

*Sue* ... your Solstice festivities sound lovely. One of our super funky community theatre groups puts on a festival at Solstice. We'll be going to that. Hot cider, a candle-lit labyrinth to walk (which I will be doing very mindfully, either with a bfp or a bfn), stilt-walkers, fire-spinners, roving theatrics, lantern-making, etc. I'm looking forward to it!

*Gillian* ... I can't imagine moving into a new house just days before Christmas! I moved on December 1st once and that was a rush as it was, to get everything ready. Is your mom the type to need everything ready right away? I am. Infuriatingly so!

*Courtney* ... So sad about your friend's ectopic. So sad for her. And made so much worse with it being her only chance, and so close to Christmas. And poor Junie! Quick-teething-vibes to your wee girl!

*Cindy*? Are you a homeowner?

*AFM*: I've been laying low, trying to distract myself from wondering whether or not I'm pregnant. I'm pretty sure that I am, but I don't want to be surprised if it's a bfn. I have terrible restless legs at night (plagued me the whole pregnancy last time), can't sleep (also a repeat symptom), heightened smell, the odd sudden wave of nausea. Other than that, I feel normal. I'll let you lovelies know right away tomorrow morning! Oh! And I've managed to avoid even purchasing a test so far! We'll go on an afternoon field trip to the drug store today, which will mean not being able to pee on it until first thing tomorrow morning, as per instructions. My sister and I were even in London Drugs and I picked one up, looked at it, let Esmé carry it around for a while, and then put it back. Man! Those things are EXPENSIVE! Nearly $20 plus 12% tax! Good lord! But if I'm only going to poas once, I'd rather do it with a quality one!


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## Vegan Princess

Oh Staring - I am so excited for tomorrow for you!!! Even the trip to the store is exciting.  Can't wait to hear!!!

Ugh. I think I laid in bed awake until 3 in the morning last night. Needless to say, I feel delightful today. We never heard about the house. My agent thinks the seller's agent was out of town for the weekend bc she had said she wasn't available to show the house. So we never got word from her. It's likely she didn't even look at our offer until today. So hopefully we will hear today. I think our odds are slim bc we put in an offer at ask and that is our max max max and if they counter us we can't go up at all. An while I laid there not being able to sleep, I just kept thinking about the whole pregnant or not pregnant thing. 8 dpo today. Didn't test. I may test tomorrow, definitely on wednesday. Both days might be too early though. I got a BFP last month at 11 dpo and BFN at 11 dpo w/Makenna. Wedneday will only be 10 dpo - so too early for my body probably. But I'm still gonna test. Unlike starling, I have 48 cheapie tests off the internet ready to be used. Plus 3 expensive ones to use once I see a line on the cheap ones. 

Sue: Feeling any symptoms? None here. But that is about par for me.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Nighten - welcome back

Cindy - good luck on the house, and the potential pregnancy. Hope you know soon for both!

Gillian - I would die if I was allergic to kale. A complete staple for me. Good you figured out such an odd allergy, though

Courtney - The solstice celebration sounds fun. Hope the teeth come through soon. Katmai's still only got two of his canines, so we've got more teething ahead soon.

Starling - crossing my fingers for you tomorrow.

There's a party we can go to for solstice here tomorrow, but I'm hoping to miss it. At this point, I really am hoping for a solstice baby! (and I'm hoping the sky stays clear enough to see the eclipse tonight - but I'd take being busy giving birth instead). Everyone send me hopeful labor thoughts! I'm trying to be as relaxed about it as possible, but if I have the baby in the next couple days, I can get home in time for Christmas. I want baby to come when it's ready, but that would still be very nice.

Katmai's still got a lingering cough, but seems to otherwise feel fine. He's at least interested in walking all over town (half a mile at a time) despite chilly weather. Hard for me to keep warm walking at toddler pace sometimes, though, and easy to get impatient and put him on my back before he's ready.


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## AKislandgirl

Symptoms: not really. My nipples have been really sensitive when Fiona nurses though. But breast tenderness is a symptom of Clomid too so I don't know. I didn't feel any symptoms till I was further along with Fiona though. Still hopefull! I'm waiting to get a call from my Dr today about my labs from Friday. I'll start to get more excited if my blood work confirms ovulation. Waiting, waiting, waiting...

We had music class today. Fiona just loves it! This little frog puppet sings to each child at the beginning of class and there is a part where the child sings back to the frog. Rarely do they sing back though because they are shy. Fiona has been singing with gusto everytime the song is visiting the other kids for weeks now. Today she sang back to the frog when it was her turn which was really fun. Not a quiet little whisper sing either... a nice big yelly kind of sing! Love it! Then at the end of class she needed to nurse through it. I think those big break throughs take a lot out of her. Makes me glad that we still nurse though because she still really needs it.

Gillian, feeling any better? I love Kale too. Sorry you can't eat it!


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## Everrgreen

Still itchy and rashy here :/ Not fun! And the allergy meds make me feel awful - dizzy/sleepy. I hope it is just the kale and not something more serious. I think it is getting better though, maybe. I'll see how I feel in the morning.

AK - Aww that is so cute  Royce has his moments where he is wild and outgoing but then other times he's shy.

Starling - my mom has been house hunting for a year, so she was pretty excited to finally get into the house. They actually had the move in date bumped from January to now. My mom is not too worried about having everything done... but I am. And I am an awesome unpacker, if I do say so myself. The mainfloor is pretty much done. The hardest part is that my mom has so much (in my opinion) junk that she should just donate or toss, it's hard work convincing her of that!

Thursday - Royce just got his four canines too!! He's been a bit fussy although mostly just typical toddler fussiness. He continues to be a good teether, thankfully!

Today my cousin and his little boy who just turned 2 were visiting and the little ones had a blast together! Although Royce has to learn personal space boundaries lol! He kept getting in the 2 yr olds face and hugging him. But they were very sweet together, it was great!

Thinking of all of you who are ttc!


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## Vegan Princess

So we finally heard about the house. Late this afternoon. They didn't take our offer. We offered ask and apparently we offered so far below what they really want, they didn't even bother to counter us! The house isn't atcually listed yet. The agent sent around an email about it to her agent list and said they were taking preemptive offers before it goes on market in mid-Jan. So they decided to go ahead and list it and see what they get since they feel like they've gotten a lot of interest so far - but no one else has made an offer. Anyway, I have a feeling they are going to be calling us back once they list and don't get anything higher than our offer. I could be wrong. We shall see. If not, it wans't meant to be. And at least DH and I aren't going to be all stressed out about doing inspections and being in escrow while we are away visiting family.

Now I can focus my obsessing back on TTC. LOL.

McKittre: Thinking of you and hoping the lunar eclipse is working it's magic on you!! If it's any cosolation, my friend got induced last week at 1 week late and had her baby in less than 4 hours. They turned the pitocin on and then quickly turned it off. In hindsight, her dr thinks maybe she was already in early labor when they started induction.

Gillian: Sounds awful! Hope you are all better tomorrow. I broke out in hives while prego w/M early on.We never figured out what it was a reaction to. I think maybe having a bunch of blood drawn at the midwife the day before. Anyway, it was awful. I feel for you!

Can't believe we are off on our travels wed morning! *I have no idea what to bring to entertain M on the plane this time!* I brought lots of little things she hadn't seen before when we flew in September but they only held her interest for a minute or two. Any ideas???


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - I'm sorry you're house didn't work out  Although maybe they will call in January! As for the plane ride my ideas are books to read, paper and crayons, something to watch a dvd on, and lots of snacks! I've never flown with Royce though so these are all just ideas. In the car he will pretty much always relax when I put music on, so I'd probably want to bring an mp3 player too.

Starling - thinking of you this morning!! I hope your testing goes well


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## justKate

Good morning! I'm hoping for a slow day today at work so that I can catch up on personal stuff. I'm reading TCOYF at work now, since I get no reading time at home. My coworkers probably think I'm a freak. I should maybe cover it with paper or something. More on that in a minute!

First,

*Cindy*, that sucks about the house, but it sounds like that one wasn't meant to be for the moment. And you never know, they may change their mind.

*Gillian*, there's a little girl in Aubs' Little Gym class that loves to give kisses. She runs up and hugs and kisses all of the other kids. I think its adoreable, but it really upsets her mom. Aubs only gives kisses in exchange for something, like a bite of my food or Elmo.

*Sue*, the music class sounds fun! No singing here though, unless it's counting-type singing: "ban, bou...bour, bive, YAY!" We got a little bit of news on our upcoming move last week--basically, there are two couples in line ahead of Paul that need to be "colocated" in Kodiak (basically one spouse is already assigned there and the other needs to be), so we're not likely to get it. Which is disappointing and a relief at the same time. I really liked the idea of the adventure of it, but it would have created a lot of stress with my family (on the east coast). Now fingers crossed that we get something else on our list! The wait is killing me.

*Nighten*, we missed you! The girls are beautiful.

*Erin*, speedy labor vibes coming your way. That last week is the worst!

*Courtney*, your solstice celebration sounds fun. I hope your huz hurries home and gets there safely.

*Mal*, when is the party? Good that you have that week off. Aubs' daycare (a center, but not a big chain one) is closed the week between Christmas and New Year's, but here's the bad part: they still charge tuition for the week, but the teachers don't get paid. If we weren't moving soon, I'd find a different place to send her. I don't mind paying, but I think it's messed up that the owner doesn't pay the teachers. Anyway.

*Starling*, I'm getting very anxious! I hope that you're feeling absolutely nauseated.









So I'm officially charting now, and it is seriously harder than I think it should be. My chart is a wreck. We're lazily avoiding, but I'm surprised that my cycles are so long (like 45+ days) compared to what they were pre-baby (like 30 days). I also found out that my glasses prescription has changed after being steady for 15 years, so I guess pregnancy has a pretty serious impact on the body. Weird. If any of you are charting experts, I'd love some advice.



Guess I should get back to pretending to work now!


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## justKate

Oh one other thing--*Cindy*--for the airplane, how about a small doodle pro/magna doodle? Less messy than crayons and paper. Aubs is getting a regular for Christmas, so I don't know how well they would go over, but I did see a smallish Elmo one at Target in the toy section and a christmas tree one in the stocking stuffer section. We also do stickers (which the flight attendants love!) and lots of snacks.


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## Everrgreen

I came back to see if there were any updates from Starling - still waiting...

Kate - I charted for over a year with Royce. Your chart does not show any ovulation yet. Are you taking your temperature at the same time each morning? After at least 3 hours sleep? Your temperatures are really up and down! It's good you're keeping track of your cm too, I always found that helpful. Although when I was ttc I rarely had ewcm - except for one day in May 2008 ;o) As frustrating as charting can be I liked doing it. Especially with long cycles (mine were around 45 days) I needed to know whether or not I had even ovulated yet. Good luck with it!!


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## mckittre

Happy solstice!

Starling, I hope solstice is helping you out more than it's helping me!

40+4 today. And since Katmai was born at 40+4, this second kid is now officially later than my first. I know it's not super late, but I really wish I hadn't listened to everyone who said that second children are never the late ones. I guess the full moon and solstice didn't do anything for me.  But I did stay up to watch the lunar eclipse, which was cool, but means that Katmai's 6AM waking up tantrum was even more fun than usual. (a fun habit he's gotten into lately). And I'll probably be stuck here for Christmas as well.

OK, vent over. I really want to be relaxed about this and welcome baby whenever he/she comes. No matter what, it really is soon now!

Good luck on the plane Cindy! We've never flown for longer than a few hrs, but found books worked best for Katmai.


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## Mal85

Starling, waiting for news! I've been checking in all morning, hoping to hear from you!

Our party is on Thursday afternoon. No, I don't charge the parents for that week I'm taking off, but I know a lot of places do. I don't think it's fair to charge tuition and not pay your staff, but I've worked in daycare and I know they always charged and I didn't get paid. Oh well.

I've been cutting out Christmas trees all morning. I'm going to have the kids decorate them with finger paints at the party. I thought this week would be pretty light with just my regular kids, but I have an extra today and my sister is bringing my 3 nieces over in a little while. One of them is 11, so she is actually pretty helpful to have around. Tomorrow, I have two little babies which makes for a difficult day to split my attention between them and the toddlers. I'm thinking of seeing if that 11 year old would want to come over and be my helper for the day. She's really great at entertaining the toddlers!

We hired my 13 year old niece to come baby sit Owyn on New Year's Eve while we go to a party. I'm a little nervous because she's only 13, but she's really good with Owyn. My plan is to put her to bed like normal that night, then go get my niece. So, she really shouldn't have to do much actual baby-sitting. I almost feel bad because I think she'll be pretty bored for New Year's Eve, but I told her I get her a pizza and some snacks and rent some movies for her. I'm still nervous because it's the first time I am actually "hiring" someone to come watch her. I just thought it'd be easier for Owyn to go to sleep in her own room and we won't have to go wake anyone up by picking her up in the middle of the night. Here's hoping she stays asleep for my niece!


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## starling&diesel

Well, it's a *negative*.

But it's still 4 days before my AF is due, and so the test is only 53% accurate.

We're sad, but we need to be hopeful until the blood test, which is on the 27th, with results on the 28th.

I might poas on Christmas, but I might not. They're pricey and it doesn't change anything.

Going to drown my sorrows in the kick-ass rice pudding at our local kid-friendly coffee shop now, seeing as I can't have a glass of wine.


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## Vegan Princess

What??? I thought for sure it would be positive!!! I'm still holding out hope!!! I got a negative 3 days before my period was due w/Makenna. And last month when I had the chemical, I got negatives 4 days before. I'm sorry Starling! But the way you are feeling sounds so promising - please don't give up hope yet! If it's any consolation, I tested this morning and it was negative. I knew it would be though. Period not due for 6 more days.

Kate: Your temps are really all over the place! Are you temping around the same time? Are you always getting 3 hours of sleep before? I find it hard to temp at a normal time (like I used to temp before I got up each day) bc Makenna wakes up so randomly - but she usually makes it until 4 before waking. So I temp around 2 or 3 in the morning. I always seem to wake up to pee then anyway. I'm not exact, but usually within an hour of my other times. I find my temps are usually below 97.5 before O and above 97.7 after. Your chart makes it really hard to tell a pattern!

Makenna at nanny today. Off to do some work. Got to finish up my project in the next couple weeks.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

*Starling*, I'm so sorry! I really hope that it is just too early to test. I'm still holding out hope that your blood work will give you a positive on the 27th. I know the waiting is hard. Big hugs Mama! Enjoy your rice pudding.

I saw the lunar eclipse last night. Pretty cool. It was a beautiful clear sky night in Kodiak. Then I woke up to snow. So it's a white Solstice here today! I love it. I'm supposed to have a sitter coming to hang out with Fiona while I hide in the garage wrapping presents. Hopefully she can still make it into town. Tonight when DH gets home from work we will give Fiona her gifts from the Solstice Fairy. She's getting a new pair of pajamas (Hanna Andersson Christmas Stripes!) and an ornament for the tree. No parties for us this year.

*Cindy,* some tips for the plane:


Lots of snacks including things she doesn't usually get.
The magnadoodle like Kate suggested.
Post it notes in lots of colors. Fiona loves to stick these everywhere and its easy cleanup
Books old and new
paper, crayons and envelopes
Movies
Cheep foam puzzle that you don't care about losing pieces to (we found a letter one at walmart for $1 before our last flight)
Grab a bunch of straws and stir sticks at one of the restaurants in the airport so she can unwrap them and play with them

*McKittre*: Thinking about you lots these days. Maybe its time to do jumping jacks! Or speed walk out to the spit and back! LOL I hope he or she doesn't keep you waiting too long.

*Mal*: Good luck getting through the week! It sounds like you have your hands full. I hope your niece can stay around a bit to help with the toddlers. Your party sounds like fun though. I'm sure the families will love it! I'm sure New Years will be just fine with your niece. She will probably love having pizza treats and movies to herself! Will she just spend the night so you won't have to take her home in the middle of the night? That is the great thing about having family babysit!

*Kate:* Sorry to hear you won't be coming to Kodiak! I hope you get news of your move soon!

OK everyone! Enjoy your Solstice!


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## Everrgreen

Oh Starling, I'm sorry *hugs* But I will continue to send you lots of baby vibes in the hopes that it was just too early for your test. Thinking of you!!

McKittre - Thinking of you as well! I hope your precious bundle arrives in time for Christmas 

Mal - I hope your party goes well! And you are so lucky to have family you trust to hire as your paid help. I really need a babysitter I can hire but have no idea who to use! But my mom is coming up for new years eve to babysit Royce so that I can go out and party! This will be a first for me so I hope Royce will sleep for her. I'm really excited about it. I want to start doing more overnights for him and getting him used to it because in April I am planning a 3 night trip.


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## Mal85

Starling, I'm so sorry. I'm remaining hopeful, though, that it was too early to test. Keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Owyn started running a little bit of a fever this afternoon. She woke up this morning a little warm, but I thought she was just hot since it gets pretty warm in her room. But it spiked back up after her nap, but she perked up pretty quickly and wasn't feeling warm anymore. The closer we got to bedtime, though, the more puney she started acting. She just wanted to snuggle on the couch most of the evening and had zero appetite at dinner. She tried taking one bite of her meat, chewed it up but refused to swallow it, acting like it hurt. So, I think maybe her throat is hurting. Which sucks because strep throat has been going around with my nieces and nephews. If she's running a fever in the morning again, DH is going to take her to the doc. I hate jumping the gun on visiting the doc so quickly, but I feel like if there is something going on, I want her to feel better for Christmas, so might as well go in now.

Really hoping she is okay for the party on Thursday. I hate to cancel the party for all the kids when only one is sick. Just don't know what else to do when that one is mine. DH offered to take off and spend the day at his parents' so the other kids could still have the party. But, I hate to send her away when she feels crappy. I know when I feel crappy, I don't want to go anywhere.


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## justKate

Starling, I will not accept a negative until AF comes. I know we can't will a little person into existence but I'm not giving up hope.


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## mckittre

Starling - I'm so sorry! I hope it turns into better news later, but either way, we're all thinking of you.

Mal - hope Owyn feels better soon - a hard time to be sick.

I'm about to head to a friend's 3 year old's birthday party, and wishing it was my baby's birthday happening instead. Oh well. At this point I'm resigned to staying here in the hotel for Christmas (we do have an invite to someone's house for the day itself), and am just kind of hoping baby is born by then. I know I still have a few days, but the planes don't fly past 4PM Christmas eve, so it's not much time left to have a baby and get out of town. I'm just trying to maintain trust in my body. Even though this one is later than Katmai, it doesn't mean it'll never come. I just need to be a bit more patient.


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## AKislandgirl

Baby will come, baby will come, baby will come! Sending labor vibes your way Erin!

Cindy.... did you test?!

The stupid lab that was supposed to call me with results of progesterone levels on Monday didn't call. I called them and they said Tuesday. Nope. Calling back today. How hard is it to make a 2 minute phone call. So annoyed.

Update: just got the call. Progesterone levels super low. It was a false positive Ovulation test. Looks like I'll be bumping it up to 100 mg next cycle. Trying not to be too bummed. At least I can drink wine on Christmas.

It snowed all day yesterday. So beautiful. Fiona LOVES the snow. It was hard to get her to come inside. We were out playing in the dark with only the street lights and lights from our Christmas lights for almost an hour after DH got home from work last night. A lovely way to spend a Solstice evening.


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## Everrgreen

Awww so cute! Royce isn't too crazy about the snow. He gets excited about it but doesn't really want to play in it. Although, today I'm watching my cousin's 2 year old for a couple hours and I had the 2 of them outside with shovels and they were having a great time. I also took them sledding down just a little hill in my mom's yard. Royce refused to go until he saw his new best friend go. They love copying everything the other does. I am really really enjoying having another toddler here. The 2 of them keep each other entertained so well! As I type, they are running back and forth together. I'm going to have to get some pics of the 2 of them together - they are sooo cute


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## Mal85

It is great having a same-age play mate. My daycare girl is only 4 weeks older than Owyn. They have really become like sisters, complete with the love/hate relationship, lol! They really are adorable together.









I love the pics of Fiona! Owyn is really into the snow too. We got just an inch or two last week and she looooved it! She would stomp around in it and have to step on every pile of snow she saw. She also loved eating it, lol! We're supposed to get a few inches of snow tomorrow/Christmas Eve, so hopefully we'll have a white Christmas here!

Owyn is feeling much better today. She had a rough night, waking up a few times generally uncomfortable all night. But she woke this morning acting like her normal self and has been great all day. She got a little exhausted early in the evening, so I could tell she's not 100% yet, but getting there. So, we're planning to go ahead with the party, just hope she's still feeling well come morning. I got the Christmas cupcakes made, my house clean, and Christmas tree shapes cut out for finger painting. While they're napping tomorrow, I'll decorate and put together their goodie bags.


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## Thursday Girl

starling, so sorry it came up negative, but since it's early yet we'll just keep hoping.

sue, love the pics...and hey when did we start getting to see the pics right in the thread? I like it.

Erin crossing my fingers baby comes soon, just so you can get home for christmas..

we got a super christmas surprise, my dh's paycheck didn't come in. awesome. he said he's calling to straighten it out. hopefully it does get taken care of THIS week.

we made christmas cookies yesterday with my friends foster son, he said he had never made cookies before! he was super excited before he came over and had a lot of fun making them. i really love that kid, he's such a sweety and it's the only kid I've ever met that matches my oldest daughter in energy and daring.

as for friends for our feb 09 babies, my daughter has a friend who is 2 days younger then her. They get along great. Every Monday school is open her mom watches June.They even share "nanas" (nursies), it was funny when I watched her, b/c they were both cuddled in my lap and June was nursing. she pulled my other boob out and held her friends face, turned it to my boob and said "nana" . they kept switching back and forth every minute or so. climbing over each other. her mom says they do that a lot.

hope Owyn stays better!!


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## mckittre

Fiona is so cute in the snow! We haven't really had any significant new snow since the beginning of November, just beautiful clear weather, mostly. We've been getting our outside time on the beach here in Homer. And I'm running out of lap room here.



I don't care if I'm home for Christmas at this point. I'm mostly focused on trying to trust this baby to come out sometime when he/she is ready - it's easy to think it'll never happen and I'll get to the end of the year and need to be induced.

Christmas cookies sound fun. I wonder if I can manage them with the limited supplies in the hotel kitchenette?


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## Thursday Girl

Erin, he/she will come when ready. my first baby was 2 days after the edd, my second baby was 10 days after, then my third i went into labor on my edd but she wasn't born until the next day. Just know that your baby isn't quite ready to come into the world and it's better to wait, it'll happen!!


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## nighten

*starling*, I'm sorry about the test result, but hope that it was just too soon.

*AKislandgirl*, she is gorgeous! Love those pictures. 

I'm very behind on this thread, but hope to catch up after Christmas.

Thanks, all, for the very kind welcome back!


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## Vegan Princess

A quick note from my MILs house. We made it here ok. Makenna did great on the flight. I loved the straw idea and the post it idea. I already had a little magnetic drawing pad and that came in handy too. And snacks. The one time she got upset and cried I broke out the animal crackers and she was giggling again in no time. Thanks guys! Thank goodness we didn't bring the stroller. Our connection was tight and we of course got delayed and had 5 minutes to make our connection! We made it bc the gate was next door! No way we would have made it if we waited for the stroller. Our bags didn't make the connection, but we finally got them this afternoon.

So I tested yesterday morning and it was neg. Held it forever and tested when the bags got here today and there was a super duper duper faint line - but I think it was an evap bc it was a bad test. And it's so faint that no one else would see it but me examining it from every angle. Took another tonight after holding it for a few hours and it was totally neg. So I think it was a bad test before. Anyway, 11 dpo today. I know it can still be + tomorrow or the next day but I'm pretty sure I am not pregnant this month.

Fiona: I am so sorry you found out you got your hopes up for nothing! I hope 100 mg does the trick! If I am not prego now, I have to redo all the testing next month. to see if I am in fact ovulating, etc.

McKittre: Hoping baby comes before christmas and that you are holding your little one in your arms while you celebrate!

Starling: How are you feeling?

Merry Christmas everyone! Not sure I'll get on here to post again before then. I will likely be reading though. And if I do end up getting a BFP, I will let you know. Though I think that is highly unlikely!

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

these snow pictures are crazy. ( i do miss snow sometimes still, but now I am pretty used to not having it, and I can actually get into the christmas spirit wihtout it now) so this is a picture of Junie in our backyard the other day. We do get some cold days and then we bundle up, right now it's beautiful though.


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## Everrgreen

thursday - Awesome pic! lol! I do like some snow but it gets old pretty fast :/ Especially having to put on boots, mitts, hats, sweaters, coats... just to leave the house. It would be a lot easier if Royce could just run around naked!

Cindy - Sorry about the BFN 

mckittre - Love the pictures! I was checking out the ones on fb too, you guys take some beautiful pictures! Thinking of you and hoping your little one comes soon!

I have all Royce's presents wrapped and under the tree and his stocking is ready to go. And we have a nice relaxing day of hanging out and doing nothing planned - yay! Christmas morning is going to be great here because my cousin and his 2 year old are spending the night so the kids can have Christmas morning together. Should be lots of fun!

Hope you all have a very happy Christmas!!


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## starling&diesel

*Courtney*! Love love love that picture! Did you take it?

*Cindy* ... glad the trip went well. Sorry about the bfn. Fingers crossed for you!

*mckittre* ... Great pics! Any rumblings? Maybe you'll have to name the babe Yule!

*mal* ... Glad Owyn is feeling better. No fun being sick on Christmas.

*Gillian* ... re: playmates, Esmé doesn't like to play with her peers. So far, anyway. As soon as you bring another toddler into the room, she becomes glued to my lap. I do worry about her social anxiety, but I know it's too soon to tell if she's going to have a challenge that way. But you're twosome sounded fun!

*AFM*: Negative again this morning. BFN. I'm certain now that I am not pregnant. It's been two weeks since the transfer, and the embryos were five days old, which essential puts me at 19 dpo. No baby. I'm glad that I took the test earlier in the week too, so that I'm not so heartbroken this morning. I'll still do the bloodwork, but I am debating a glass of wine tomorrow at dinner. I likely won't, being that I'm ever the effin' optimist. We only have two embryos left, and they are not of stellar quality, so I might have to go hang out on the "moms of onlies" tribe after all. Not a bad thing, just not what we had ultimately hoped for.


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## Vegan Princess

Aww Starling, I hope you and your partner can have another child, if that is what what you desire! Perhaps your partner can donate an egg? Are you open to using other embryos, etc? My sister used 2 different surrogates for her 3 girls. Same dad but dif moms. It doesn't make a world of difference!

Another BFN here. I suppose there is a still a chance since AF isn't due for 2 days. But I am going ahead and having some wine tonight. I am 99.9% sure I am not prego. So I guess we will all get the chance again to try for the same due date club again!

I am so glad to not have to bundle Makenna up every time we go outside at home! It's such a production! She hates wearing her mittens too. But the snow sure is pretty...it's a nice temporary change. Still glad to live in California. Makenna is having a blast here playing with her cousin who is 8 months older. They are inseperable. Makenna gets upset if Will is out of view even. It's great!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Starling and Cindy... so sorry about your BFNs. It really is such a let down, I know. I tested today and it was negative as well. I know it's way super early for me to test and figured it would be negative, but with the not knowing about my ovulation, I gave it a shot anyway. I am fairly certain I ovulated just last weekend, at least that's normal for me when I do ovulate. I'm still just not as into the charting and OPKs as you guys are, it's all a little intimidating to me I guess. Anyway, I bought a 3 pack and will save the other two for after the first of the year. For now, I'm going to enjoy my holidays and try not to think about it. And I will be having a few glasses of wine throughout the holiday week I'm sure.

Today has been busy, busy, busy! I'm so jealous of your relaxing day, Gillian! We had our adults' party last night and stayed up way too late, so this morning was rough. But I was at my mom's by 8 to help her clean her house for tomorrow. Then had some last minute grocery shopping to do and a couple of errands to run. Now, I'm preparing my first ever batch of homemade cinnamon rolls for tomorrow morning. I'm really not patient enough for this dough stuff, it's all mix it together and wait. Then mix some more and wait. Oh well, at least it gives me time to shower and get everything ready for this afternoon. We're having Christmas at my ILs after I finish the cinnamon rolls, then church at 8 tonight and getting together with my family for a little while after. It'll be another late night, but hopefully Owyn will sleep later tomorrow since she'll be up too.

I can't wait for her to experience Christmas tomorrow!


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## AKislandgirl

Merry Christmas Mama's and babies! We had a wonderful morning here. Fiona didn't want to open presents for about 45 minutes after she woke up. Then she watched DH and I open a few and said, "Nona's box, OK!". Then she got into it! It was fun, She'd open and play for a bit and then say, "other one Nona's box" and we'd give her another one. After playing around here for a bit we got all her snow gear on and went sledding in the back yard. She loved it! Super brave on the hills (not that they are very steep!) and wanting to go again and again. She's currently sleeping in her hat and snow pants because she refused to let me take them off.  My little snow bunny!

We are having a few friends over for a dinner of appetizers tonight. We did it last year too. It was fun to just have lots of little bits to eat! I made some gluten free brownies that turned out so good. I thought it would be rude to serve bad brownies so I had to test them out!







Over all a very happy Christmas indeed.

My favorite gift... I totally teared up when I got it. A silver necklace with charms. One has our anniversary date on it. The other is a heart with Fiona's name on it. DH said "we can add on to it" which made me so happy to think about. I know that it's not easy for us but I am confident that we will be adding onto our family someday.

Thank you all for the wonderful friendship and support you have given me through our time of expecting our little ones till now (at almost 2! eee gads!). You are all such awesome Mama's and I'm glad to have this little cyber link to you all. Merry Christmas!


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## nighten

Oh I am so sorry for all the BFNs thus far.  I hope that the new year brings those of you trying for another baby (and those already on your way!) great joy and fulfillment!

We had a wonderful Christmas. Guinevere went nuts with everything, and Eowyn tore into her gifts with great gusto, but got a bit distracted after a while (she'd had enough).  Thankfully, there was a TON of snow outside (which is a rarity for us -- in my nearly 42 years, we've only had two white Christmases here, and only one with over an inch of snow). But today we got well over 6" and counting!

And the girls had an absolute blast.

Here's one of Sweet Eowyn, loving the snow:



Hope you all had a merry merry Christmas, and wonderful holiday! (And I promise I am going to get caught up on this thread at some point soon.)

-Renee


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## Nillarilla

Merry Christmas Mama's I hope your holidays were grand or just relaxing whatever you desired. We had a fabulous Christmas morning. Ds is almost 5 so he was soooooo into it. Dee was a fun little present opener. She just wanted everything open right away. She amazes me everyday with her comprehension. We opened a doll bed in the box and she said "That baby seepin" (sleeping). I was worried maybe we didnt get them enough as I always do but it was just enough. I made them a hanging play tent which was supposed to take 3 hrs and took me about 6 days but it was worth it. They were thrilled with it.

I got a lot of baker's gifts which is awesome because they were just what I wanted and even a few I didn't know I wanted. I got some amazing GF cookbooks and a book on how to start my own bakery. It's a dream...... The first paragraph of the book states that bakeries have high failure rates. Hopefully I get into my master's so I have a backup plan.

I'm back to work tommorow. Night all


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## mckittre

Sounds like a lot of great celebrations!

I was too Grinch-like to do Christmas at all today, though we did go to some friends for dinner. We don't really have our own traditions yet, and Katmai had no idea he was missing anything - just a normal day for him. But after seeing that seemingly everyone we know over here has given him something (some nice, some junk) and knowing that there's a whole bunch more waiting for him at home when we eventually get back, I'm wondering if I want to nip it in the bud and skip Christmas entirely from now on. We can't fit much more in our yurt, and I hate people going out and buying new resource-using stuff I don't need. I'm sure we'll have to get rid of some of it, and we didn't buy him anything. We could do a solstice tree and skip the presents entirely. Or maybe I'm just feeling anti-holiday because I'm stuck in a hotel way too pregnant? Both, probably.

But I shouldn't complain. Seeing everyone here struggle to get pregnant makes it seem awfully petty to be grumbling about being pregnant for an extra week or two. I really really want to hold out and let this baby pick its birthday, but it'll get harder to do as I get towards 42 weeks. Please come soon!


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## Everrgreen

mckittre - *hugs* I think you have every right to feel a bit grinchy! Your sweet babe will be in your arms soon. Thinking of you!! (and I think you should wait until you're not pregnant anymore to decide whether or not to permanently cancel Christmas  

nighten - omg she is so sweet! I love chubby little faces 

I am glad to hear all the little ones enjoyed the day yesterday! Royce had a good day too. It was a little tricky to get him to finish opening gifts because he just wanted to play with his new toys! I was soo tired though all day, I stayed up too late and then didn't sleep well. And we had visiting to do in the afternoon so Royce had a little nap in the car but I didn't have a chance to nap with him - but I got caught up last night!

Royce love love loves being pulled in the sled for a walk. He laughs the entire time, it is awesome! He does not like going down hills though. There is the tiniest little hill in my moms yard but he pretty much always says 'no' when I ask him to come down with me. The couple of times he has gone down he seemed to enjoy it though. Oh well!

Here he is all rosey cheeked after a walk outside in the snow


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## Mal85

So glad everyone had a great holiday and sending some strong labor vibes to you Erin!! I know I would be feeling a tad Grinchy too if I had to spend the holiday away from home, essentially on hold until the babe decides to come. That has to make it even harder to be patient!

Owyn had a pretty great Christmas, considering. She probably felt her worst yesterday compared to the rest of the week. Her little bug, which seems to be just a bad cold, was really kicking her butt yesterday. It didn't help that she was up late Christmas Eve with church and family visiting. So, she woke up cranky and just wanted to snuggle for a while instead of opening gifts. So, I finished up the cinnamon rolls while she snuggled with DH for a while. My ILs came over to watch her open gifts, so she was also a little confused waking up to extra people in the house and her "Santa" gifts set up in the living room. I finally got down her stocking just to warm her up to the gifts and she liked that a lot and decided to start opening. She quickly perked up and was playing with all her toys. Her favorite was a Little People castle toy I picked up on a wim when I was Black Friday shopping. Glad we saved it for last because it was all she wanted to do the rest of the morning! I've really never seen her get so into playing with something before, it was great!

We had Christmas at my mom's the rest of the day and she started feeling crummy again around lunch time. Fell asleep, but didn't sleep long and woke up feeling even worse. I caved and gave her some Motrin, I just couldn't stand for her to suffer on Christmas. It did make her feel quite a bit better and she had a good time until she passed out on my lap just as we were finishing opening gifts. We brought her home and to bed at 7, now it's almost 10 in the morning and she's still sleeping in bed with DH who seems to be coming down with the same cold. We actually had about 3 crummy-feeling kiddos just laying around on the couch at my mom's. At least they had each other for company and plenty of movies to get them through the day.

AFM, I had a wonderful Christmas! I made my first-ever batch of homemade cinnamon rolls which came out delicious! I used Pioneer Woman's recipe. The whole time I was making them (I'm not a baker, never have been and had never even made bread before), I kept saying "I'm never doing this again!!". DH got a good laugh, but it was worth it because they came out great! My ILs gave me the digital camera I've been wanting since the battery is always dying in my old one. DH gave me an Amazon Kindle that I love, love, love! My parents gave us a gift card to go out to eat that we might use for my birthday this week.

I'll come back and post a pic or two after I figure out how to load them from my new camera!


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## starling&diesel

*Gillian* ... Royce looks so grown up! Is it truly possible that our babes are almost TWO?

To *Mckittre*'s wee bairn ... Come on, little one! Come meet your incredible family! You have such a cool life ahead of you, kiddo. I know it's cozy in there, and I know it's comforting to listen to your mama's heart beat so close, but you will be kept warm out here too, and you will be held even closer to your mama's heart once you are born. Come soon! Come safe!

*Mckittre* ... I'm with you on skipping the gifting. It's a hard balance, what with the influence of our culture and the world at large. We'll see how you feel next year, without the compromising situation of being so pregnant and away from home. How are things today? Labouring, I hope?

*Mal* ... Congrats on your cinnamon rolls! That's quite the ambitious undertaking! Good for you. I hope Owyn is feeling better?

*Nillarilla* ... I'd love to see pics of your hanging tent! Sounds awesome!

*Nighten* ... Eowyn is adorable! Enjoy your rare snow!

AFM: The house is finally quiet again. Phew. We hosted dinner yesterday, and my parents stayed over. We were only 8 folks for dinner, but it really fills us our small place. DP is a chef and likes to do her own thing in the kitchen, so I just get to sit back and enjoy. My best-friend (we grew up together, I call her my sister usually) and my parents came over at about ten am. My best friend's mom likes to buy gifts for Esmé by the truckload, even though we've made it very clear about our lack of space and desire for fewer, quality items rather than the usual fair. Anyway, my best friend brought over a tonne of gifts from her mom. My mom gave Esmé a beautiful hand-woven basket and a homemade flannel nightie. She knows that my best friend's mom goes nuts with gifts, and I'd talked to her before hand, but she still felt put out and annoyed to be 'upstaged' by my best friend's mom. Sigh. My mom knows that I far prefer the gifts she puts so much thought into, but it still soured the morning a bit. We didn't get E anything at all, so it was just the presents from the competing grandmothers. E also calls my best friend's mom 'grama,' which also ticks my mom off.

Before having Esmé, I hadn't celebrated Christmas with my family for over 15 years. My mom gets weird and my stepdad drinks too much and so I started celebrating with friends instead. I loved those years. Since having Esmé, my mom won't take no for an answer. She insists on coming. I love the relationship that she has with Esmé, but fact of the matter is that she is not a stellar parent, and never was. She makes a far better grandma! So, long story short, she pushed my buttons all day long yesterday and into this afternoon, and I'm just reminded of how badly I'd like to reclaim my Christmas for a second time.

Sigh.

Rant over.

Blech.

And still not pregnant.


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## Mal85

Just stopping in to say that Owyn is feeling much better, finally! She slept until about 1:00 this afternoon! She would wake up for 5-10 minutes, long enough to get a long drink of water and snack on a little food, then go back to sleep. That was, on and off, 18 hours of sleeping and she needed it. She is finally enjoying all of her gifts tonight and waiting very impatiently to eat some dinner!

Starling, sorry about your mom. Hopefully you can enjoy some time with just your happy little family now. Christmas isn't over, the 12 days have just begun!


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## mckittre

Thanks for the labor vibes everyone. Hope they work for me soon - I really don't want to have to make the hard decision about induction. I think this baby is just trying to teach me a lesson that I can't have expectations based on what I learned from Katmai. But I get it now, and baby can come meet us already!

Starling - that sounds hard. relatives competing over presents is even worse than them getting too many in the first place. Perhaps celebrating present-free would help make it easier? I'm lucky that both my parents and inlaws are wonderful to hang out with, even if they do go a bit overboard at times. My mother-in-law, especially is super close to Katmai as we live right next door to her on the same property.

Mal - cinnamon rolls sound yummy. I bake all our own bread, but I still think cinnamon rolls are complicated enough that I've only ever done them once.


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## justKate

Glad that all of the little ones had a good Christmas! No one was sick or grumpy, and it was neat having our own little Christmas with just the three of us. I didn't do anything elaborate--made a ham, which we'll eat on for the rest of the week. Here's Aubs, misunderstanding the purpose of presents:



(Don't worry, it's just cheerios in the cup....)

I'm sorry for everyone getting BFNs. Hopefully things will change soon!


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## dooney

Well hey! Happy to have found you all again!

Coen is doing great. "Too big" for a bib, sippy cup, baby silverware, booster seat, etc due to having a big brother who is almost four, but gosh darnit he's not too big for those diapers! He tells me when he's pooping but won't use the toilet. Loves to be naked, and happily shows me his puddles on the floor, but won't use the toilet. All in good time, I'm sure. He stopped nursing at 18 months which was sad, but a relief at the same time. I'd been nursing nonstop for 3 ½ years & pregnant again with nursing aversion and just... ready for a break.

We had a decent Christmas. It's our first since we moved away from "home." We set up the webcam so the boys could see their cousins and that was nice. We're used to giant family gatherings, but it was just the four of us this year, which was pretty lonely.

I am due any day now with baby #3 (well, Co was born at 38wk1d, and I'm 37wk5d so I'm just assuming, I guess. Her EDD is actually 1/12). This one is most likely a girl & she was a surprise. Pretty excited to cloth diaper a newborn, as I started with Coen at about 6 months.


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## mckittre

dooney: Welcome back! But if you have your 1/12 baby before I have mine (who was due 12/17), I'm going to have to kill someone.


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## Vegan Princess

Dooney:Welcome back! So exciting that you are having another little!!

Kate: Aubrey is precious! I love her hair!

McKittre: OMG you poor Mama. Maybe today will be the day!

Starling: I'm sorry your mom made things rough for you! I know how that can be. Esme is blessed to have an extra Grandma though.  We don't really buy anything either bc the grandparents do so much. I bought a little fridge magnet phonics thing and some wooden eggs for $4 since she is obsessed with eggs and things hatching. She'll open our presents on new year's even, when we are home again.

I am still at my mother in law's. Most of the other relatives have left. We leave tomorrow. Things are quiet now. What in the heck does one do with a toddler when it's all snowy out? She doesn't like to play in the snow for long. I think we might hit the library later and hope they have toys. Yesterday we went to the amazing children's museum here ( one of the biggest in the world). It was awesome - I would have loved to go again today - but it is SO expensive. One would definitely need a membership if they were local. I am going stir crazy. I hate sitting around the house - and it's not even my house so I it's not like I can fill time by doing household chores either. I think Makenna is holding up better than me. LOL.

Cindy


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## justKate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mckittre*
> 
> dooney: Welcome back! But if you have your 1/12 baby before I have mine (who was due 12/17), I'm going to have to kill someone.


Yikes, 12/17. Any chance of recalculating your dates to avoid the dreaded NSTs and induction? Bleh, I'm sure you don't want to go into it. Take it from baby's point of view. Would YOU want to leave your nice warm comfy home to join the cold world? I'd stay in as long as possible!


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## Thursday Girl

Kate, Aubs is so BEAUTIFUL!!

welcome back dooney. how exciting to be getting #3 soon. My little girl being the smallest of 3 girls thinks she is much bigger then she is. she won't do any baby things EXCEPT the diaper and nursing. she has gone bare bottomed only to ask for a diaper when she needs to poo...and she even used the potty a couple times a day for a little while.

starling, sorry about your difficult mother. my mom is difficult, especially with me b/c I have kids. So she is ALWAYS finding things wrong with whatever I do. it is uber annoying!

Erin- I know it can be hard to stop thinking about when this little one is going to come. I hope you are able to come to peace with his or her time table..or that he and she gets the hint and comes on out. lol


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## mckittre

I doubt I can get them to change my due date, since it was from an 11 week ultrasound (I had no idea I was pregnant, much less how far along I was). So I think I'm stuck with the NSTs and ultrasounds (just went to one today, actually - everything perfect). However, I do think I can avoid induction if those look good - the CNMs are pretty laid back here. Other than a bit of anxiety about dealing with the midwives, I'm actually feeling much more at peace with it all today. I'm sure this baby will come sometime, and baby will choose that for themselves. And it'll definitely be quite soon. In the grand scheme of things a week or two more or less isn't that long.


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## Nillarilla

Here's my 2 with Santa. I will have to post a pic of the tent when I get them loaded onto the computer. Sorry for the waiting on baby's and pregnancy.


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## AKislandgirl

Loving all the photos! Here is one of Fiona with her new horse...



Sorry to hear about difficult Mothers. I feel like Christmas can make hard relationships even more pronounced. Hope you are settling back into a peaceful routine.

Mal, saw the pictures of those cinnamon rolls! They looked awesome. I found a gluten free recipe I'm going to try today. Thanks for the inspiration. Any of you gluten free Mama's have a good bread recipe? I've been experimenting and don't have it quite right.

Welcome back Dooney.

Labor vibes Erin!


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## Mal85

Finally figured out how to load pics on here!

Here is one of DH, me and Owyn on Christmas morning at my parents'.



And this is my favorite from opening gifts!


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## starling&diesel

I think I've figured out the pic thing too! Here are a couple of Esmé in her fort with her best bud, our dog Charlie. They are inseparable!

The other one is of her with her a pop-up book of Alice In Wonderland that she was given for Christmas. Esmé is obsessed with pop-up books. She's the youngest one allowed to take them out at the library. Lucky girl.


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## starling&diesel

And how are things, *Mckittre*, dear? Holding a squishy yummy snuggle bundle of love in your arms? If so, hallelujah ... and if not, then positive labour vibes coming your way!

Hello to everyone else!


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## Thursday Girl

how nice to see pics of Esme. It's been awhile.

Erin- thinking of you.


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## mckittre

Cute pictures everyone!

I am still pregnant. A couple other overdue moms in the December due date club just had their babies today, leaving me as the most pregnant one left in the group at 41+5. Not an honor I'd hoped to receive. My midwives will let me go past 42 weeks, but I really don't want to. Please baby, come this year! I've been waiting a long time now.


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## Everrgreen

Love all the pics!! Such cute little babies (er.. big babies/toddlers)!

Royce would destroy a pop up book in seconds, for this reason he has yet to see on lol! He does have have some 'lift the flap' books but even they get destroyed if he looks at them unsupervised / I can't help but wonder if this is part of the built in differences between boys and girls!

McKittre - *hugs* *hugs* *hugs* The baby *will* come. And it *will* be very very soon. Hang in there! I'm thinking of you and wishing you lots of easy labour vibes!!

I am finished all my holiday visiting today and will be driving home once Royce wakes up and we get the car loaded. Kind of sad but I do miss my own bed so it will be nice 

And Royce will be TWO in 20 days... wow...


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## Thursday Girl

Erin, I feel bad telling you I am thinking about you and such b/c i know that can get annoying. I was in the December due date club and two others and I went to January 1st. I don't remember when the other mommas were due. I was due the 22nd of December. Gosh people were getting annoying back then, especially the IRL people asking me when I was going to get induced. you probably know the conversation

"so when are you due?"

me- "9 days ago"

them- "OMG why hasn't your Dr induced yet??"

me- "'um I'm using a midwife and the baby isn't technically overdue yet, the due date is an estimate and it would be perfectly normal to deliver two weeks either side of that date."

them-" still I'd have that baby cut out, who wants to still be pregnant"

anyways, there is hope. Baby will come. My little DDDCbaby was ten days late. I am getting ready to get the supplies to bake cupcakes for her FIFTH birthday (and my ddc friends and I still talk)

pop up books have to be supervised here, i can mostly trust her with lift the flap books. I'm still amazed a library HAS pop up books.

in non baby news my husbands company messed up his paycheck AGAIN, paying him less than half of what he was supposed to get...and this time every office person is gone for the holidays. Last week they messed it up and then realized the past 3 weeks were messed up so paid us the difference. i say it's no wonder we are having trouble juggling the bills. Until they fix it he can't drive back up to the job, which means he looses pay. I am so freaking annoyed with this company right now.


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## Mal85

Oh Erin, I've been thinking about you a lot. I know how frustrating it can be and how hard it is to be patient when you're overdue. I didn't go as long with Owyn, but I was the last person in our DDC to have my babe. She was due the 25th of Feb and came March 1. It was so hard reading all the wonderful birth stories at the end of the month wishing it were me instead. The day my water broke, I was on MDC reading someone's birth story and I remember her saying she fully believed what put her into labor was when she felt so defeated she just cried and cried... had her baby that night. I did the same thing... took a long shower and cried, feeling ridiculous for being so impatient and helpless to do anything about it. An hour later, my water broke!


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## mckittre

Thanks for the hopeful thoughts! It helps that people around here are pretty relaxed about that kind of thing, so no one thinks it's that odd that I haven't been induced yet. 13 days late today, but I've been having a bunch of bloody show since last night, and have occasional contractions that feel different than the braxton hicks. Maybe it'll be this year after all! Cross your fingers for me, please!

Back in toddler land, Katmai has been obsessed with the names of things lately. He wants to know the name of everything and everyone, and if I don't know, he makes up a nonsense word to be the name (his favorites are "hee-ho, agoovak, and yuumiyuumi").


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## AKislandgirl

Those are great signs Erin! Crossing fingers!

Holy cow Mamas. We are having some sleep issues. Rather going to sleep issues. Last night Fiona tossed and turned and made every excuse possible to try and get up. She finally slept at 11:30.

Her: I need a viamin Mama.

Me: No you had your vitamin.

Her: Papa needs his vitamin Mama.

Me: No he had his vitamin

Her: Maia needs a vitamin, Willie too (These are our dogs!)

Me: No! Go to sleep!

Her: I have to go potty

Me: Go to sleep Fiona!

It went on and on! I try to play dead, etc. Anyway just had to vent. Just picked up No cry sleep solution for toddlers. Hopefully something in there will help. OMG! Question though... do your little ones let your partners put them to bed? Oh how I would love this.


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## Mal85

Fiona sounds so grown up! I love the little conversations you tell us about. Owyn is mostly talking now too, but nothing like what you and Starling describe from your little ones!

As for going to sleep... DH has almost always had better luck putting her to bed than me. The first 7 months of her life, she fell asleep on my chest while nursing and stayed there until I decided to go to bed. She never would let me lay her down. Now, I give her a 5-10 minute warning, saying it's night-night time. Then, she'll crawl up on my lap and snuggle. After a few minutes, she reaches for her daddy and he takes her to her bed. He gives her a hug and kiss, lays her down and leaves the room. As long as we leave the door all the way open, she'll play in her crib for a few minutes, then goes to sleep on her own. When she was sick last week and over the weekend, we tried putting her in bed with us and she just wasn't comfortable. She just sleeps better in her own space.

Erin, fingers crossed for you!!


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## Thursday Girl

that's funny about all the excuses. when my oldest was there age she came out of bed and said "here" while holding somethign pinched in her fingers. i took it and then she told me it was a booger.

My dh can put her to bed if I am not home, anyone can really as long as they hold her.

erin- fingers crossed, these are good signs...and hopefully you get the babe this year. We missed our tax credit with Josephine by 19 hours.; )


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## Vegan Princess

Erin: Bloody show is how my labor started w/Makenna. She was born 8 hours later. I hope the same holds true for you!

Sue: Makenna has been wanting me to put her down more lately but it has generally been my husband's doing and I am having him do it again lately since it takes so long these days and putting down for nap takes so long - i don't want to spend 2 hours/day putting her to sleep. But she does talk and come up w/many excuses these days. Needs this, needs that, this has to be just so, etc before she can settle down.

Cindy


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## dooney

My first was always great with pop-up books. His cousin the same age destroyed them, and I used to get so frustrated. Now Coen can't keep regular books in one piece!

Oh, ultrasound today - turns out the boys are getting a brother instead of a sister. Surprise!


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## Vegan Princess

OMG Dooney! What a surprise! Did you buy a bunch of pink stuff??? At least you haven't used any of it yet - hopefully you can exchange/return. Eeck!

Happy new years mamas! I hope 2011 brings lots of happiness, health and new babies!  But not for you McKittre - cuz I'm hoping that little one is here already!!

We looked at yet another house. It is still in the city we love so same schools, etc. But it is way way way up in the hills. It is almost inside this amazing, huge park that has a little farm for kids, lake for sunbathing, carousel, steam train, botanical gardens,etc. Not to mention it it just absolutely gorgeous and feels like you are way far away in the woods up there, even though you afre only 10 minutes away. The house is a foreclosureo it's a good deal. It is bigger than the houses we've been looking at and doesn't really need any work (unlike lots of the houses in the flatlands in our price range). We just can't decide if we will be happy driving everywhere and down such steep hills every time we go somewhere. It is a nice feel up there but very secluded and you can't walk to much. There is a playground in the neighborhood though. The cool stuff in the park is close but not safe to walk to bc of the roads being windy and not having a shoulder, etc. Right now I can walk to cool markets and lots of different shopping areas and like 8 different parks. But we will never afford a house like this down here. Ugh - we can't make up our minds!

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Mckittre* ... Hope your New Year's was babyful! If so, you could give the babe the middle name of Ano, or some such witty thing.

*Gillian* ... Yay for your own bed! And that is CRAZY that Royce will be two so soon! Esmé's birthday is in 30 days!

*Dooney*! Exciting news! Do you have a boy name in mind?

*Cindy* ... The house sounds great, and in a really neat area .... BUT ... Beware the unwalkable neighbourhood that requires a drive to anywhere. When we first moved back to Vancouver, we bought a crumbling old house about a twenty minute walk (five minute drive) from my favourite part of the city. It was too far. It was a lovely tree-lined neighbourhood, but my heart sank every day when I woke up. I felt isolated, the house itself was full of problems, which we didn't realize the full extent of until after we moved in, and it was just TOO FAR from the life I wanted in the city, funky neighbourhood, shops, library, pools, rec centre all within walking distance. We put the house up for sale one month after we bought it, and moved to our fabulous funky neighbourhood shortly after we sold it not long after that. I learned a lot from that arduous experience.

*Thursday* ... Funny booger story!

*Mal* ... I love the conversations too. So cute. Here's one from last night.

And *Sue*, it's bedtime related too!

DP had to work, so my sister was going to come over after Esmé went to sleep so we could drink wine and watch a movie. I put her to bed a little early (my first mistake) and only read her one book (my second mistake) and I'm sure she could sense that I wanted her to go to sleep quickly.

After about half an hour of nursing, she popped off and this was our exchange:

E: I not sleepy, Mama.

Me: Oh ... no? What about our very looooong walk out in the cold? Are you a little bit tired from that?

E: No. Not sleepy, Mama. Tell me a story.

Me: Okay, let's snuggle and close our eyes and I'll tell you a story. [I launch into The Three Little Bears in a whisper ... she starts to fade.]

E: [Suddenly perking up] Not porridge, mam!. Only pancakes.

Me: Okay. [Revise appropriately and carry on]

E: Not beds, mama. Camping. Bears are camping in a tent. No beds.  Only foamies, Mama.

Me: Esmé, it's bedtime. You need to go to sleep. I'll keep telling you the story, but only if you close your eyes and tell your body that it's time to go to sleep.

E: 'Kay, Mama. Night night. [closes yes]

Me: Night, night. [Pause] "So first Baba bear ducked into the tent--"

E: [in a teeny tiny whisper] Not Baba Bear first. Baby Bear first. Then Mama. Then Baba. In the tent."

Anyway, it was a looong time before she actually fell asleep.


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## justKate

Alright it's been 23 hours since Erin last posted. I'm going to say she's had/is having her baby! Wonder if s/he's a 2010 or 2011 baby?


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## Thursday Girl

right, I am soo curious!!!

today was my 5 year olds birthday. Still can't believe my little Josie is FIVE! we had her party today, a very nice small party. It was a charlie and lola cupcake party.


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## Thursday Girl

someone commented on her facebook page that babe is here, born 1-1-11. No other details. (I am so ridiculously excited for them)


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## Vegan Princess

Yay! Congrats to erin!!! And yay - Katmai is a big brother! Can't wait to hear if she had a boy or a girl. 

I am SOOOO releived right now!! I just got my day 3 hormone test results back. While I was breastfeeding, my FSH came back above normal - which can mean premature ovarian failure. My estrogen was also pretty low (but that is normal for nursing). I went ahead and weaned bc I needed to know if in fact my FSH was high from nursing or if I was facing early menopause! I was shaking trying to pull up the results. My FSH levels are less than half of what they were! Well within the normal range. And my estrogen levels have more than doubled. Thank god!! I still need to get my progesterone levels checked again later this month to see if I am ovulating but I am not worried about that. I'f I'm not, I'll take clomid.

Still undecided about the house. Thanks for chiming in Starling. Your opinion matters - especially after knowing you lived up in the mountains while you were prego. We went and checked out the 2 parks in the neighborhood today. They are pretty cool and I could def. walk to them. I don't know I don't. And I bet that if we decide we want it and put an offer we won't end up getting it anyay. That's how it always seems to work for us.

Cindy


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## mckittre

She wasn't timely, she wasn't easy, and she wasn't fast. But she's perfect.  Lituya Journey was born 1/1/11 at 10:07AM at 42+1 after a labor that slowly ramped up for days. She wasn't the slightest bit overdue (I think the dates were wrong), but was 9lb 14.8oz! She's a mellow sweet baby so far, and Katmai is a great big brother. And I am exhausted. She's the first baby of the year for the hospital, so we got a big box of presents for her. Happy New Years everyone!


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## starling&diesel

Welcome to the world, Lituya Journey!































You're joining one beautiful, awesome family.

Mckittre, you must be exhausted. When can you go home? As soon as you do, may the babymoon begin in earnest!


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... That is GREAT news! I'm sorry that the house hunting is starting to wear thin. The right house will find you! And yes, I did feel more isolated in the city just a twenty minute walk from my preferred neighbourhood than I did up in the tiny mountain town we lived in when I was pregnant.


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## Thursday Girl

Erin, very cool that you got the first new years baby! (we hoped for that when we realized we weren't getting our 2005 baby..after days of ramping up labor, but she hung out until 7:04 pm) Very awesome. She is certainly lucky to join such an awesome family!

Cindy, I tried to understand what you were talking about, not really sure except that it's good, so yay!!


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## Everrgreen

mckittre - So so happy for you and your family! And (sorry to make those without fb jealous, but...) I saw the pics you posted on fb and she is absolutely beautiful. And such a beautiful name too. I wish you a wonderful babymoon, hopefully you'll be snuggled at home very soon! Congratulations!!!

Cindy - That's great about your FSH test! Woohoo! I'm not sure what advice to give on the house. It's a tough call. I live in the city but I still need to use my car for pretty much everything. I guess it does suck, but I've gotten used to it. You just learn to be more productive when you go out.


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## AKislandgirl

Welcome Lituya Journey! We are so glad you've come! I'm so happy for your family Erin! Hope you are heading home soon! Give her baby snuggles from me!

Cindy great news! Hope you can avoid the clomid too. More babies are surely in your near future!

gotta run!


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## Mal85

Erin I'm so excited for you and your family! I can't wait to hear about how Katmai likes being a big brother. I saw your pics on FB and her cheeks! Oh, they are so kissable!!


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## Everrgreen

I realized today that I really need to start planning Royce's birthday party!! It shouldn't take too much planning as the guests are adults and I've decided to go to a restaurant. So I just need to make reservations, decide on a cake (I'm going to buy one, last year's attempt at making one was a big pain!), and invite people  His party is going to be on Jan 15th (a Saturday). On his actual birthday (18th) I am going to take him to one of those big indoor playgrounds just the two of us (well, hopefully there will be other kids there for him to play with!) I still can't believe he's turning 2!

Oh, and I forget to tell you all about Royce's first bedtime without me. My mom came to watch him for New Years Eve so I could go out. I left around 5pm and wasn't home until around 3:30am. According to my mom he did fine! She said she didn't even attempt bedtime until 10pm (Royce is a bit of a night owl). At 10pm they went to bed and he kept asking for me, she explained to him that I was out with my friends but I would be back. She said he got upset when she turned off the light and pretended to be asleep but then he crawled up on top of her and fell asleep. He woke up right after I got home and wanted to nurse. But then went back to sleep until around 8am, and my mom got up with him so I could keep sleeping  I'm so glad it went well! Next thing I have to try is a full overnight where I'm still not there in the morning. I'm worried about how he will handle that. But I'm trying to get him ready for my 3 nights away in April. I don't know how *I* will handle being away for that long though - by 2 am on new years I was really missing him (that and it was about 4 hours past my bedtime lol!)


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## starling&diesel

That doesn't sound like it was too painful, *Gillian*. Good start! I don't have the balls to be away from her just yet, but I do admire you for your April goal. I have to do an author appearance in Quebec in April, and I'm using my cc like crazy to accumulate points so that I can hopefully take Esmé and my mom with me. I worry about crazy things, like there being a huge earthquake in Vancouver while I'm gone without her and being so far away. I really should just take some Rescue Remedy and go on my own, but I can't just yet. You're my hero, Gillian.

*Birthdays*! I just made and ordered a book on blurb.com, compiling pictures of Esmé's year. That's for her birthday, and if it's lovely, then I'll order a few for the grannies and aunties.

We've booked our local family resource centre for Esmé's birthday. For $150 you get an ECE staff member who will run the crafts table (their supplies too!) and do a circle time or song circle. We get use of their kitchen and their playroom. Awesome! We're going to do a big fundraiser for the Basics for Babies program at the Food Bank here. We did it last year and matched the donations and ended up donating $500 in Esmé's name. I just have to confirm the date (Jan 30th) and time and then I'll make invites. Fun!

Esmé and I are going to go on the bus up to a store that we have a groupon coupon for that sells awesome Waldorf-y goodies and such. I'm purchasing her a child's ergo carrier and a peppa doll to go in it. She's also getting a balance bike, which we bought over a year ago for 40% off.

*Erin* ... Pictures? I know that you're likely in transit and on your way home with your precious wee one, but I'm not on facebook and I want to see squishy baby cheeks!!!

*Cindy* ... Are you a homeowner? Did you get your New Year's house?


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## Mal85

Gillian, I'm glad Royce did great on his first trial run! I'm sure he'll do great for an overnight. I was terrified the first time we left Owyn overnight with my ILs over the summer, but she did great! As for birthdays, Owyn's still seems so far away in comparison to some of your little ones! Hers is the 1st of March and I'm not sure what we'll be doing for it. I know DH and I are buying her a play kitchen and family members are planning on getting her accessories for the kitchen. My side of the family is so huge, we've decided to do one birthday party a month and celebrate all the birthdays that month at the same time. We really were starting to have bithdays almost every weekend, so this'll make things easier. So, I think we'll save Owyn's big party for our friends and invite her best friend (my daycare girl) over for a cake and ice cream type of party. Nothing too huge, I'm sure. I am finally biting the bullet and made an appt with my OB. I'm on day 36 of my current cycle. No BFP yet and no period. I've been putting it off just sure I would end up pregnant on my own, but it's just not happening for us. I'm due for an annual anway, long overdue in fact. I'm a little nervous about what to expect. I suspect I'm not ovulating, so I'm pretty sure we'll be talking about Clomid. I don't know why I'm so nervous about it. I go in next Thursday and hopefully I'll get some answers.


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## Vegan Princess

Yay Erin! I need pics!!

Starling: I so want to get Makenna a baby ergo carrier! Do you think they sell them online? She is obsessed with her baby dolls and they have to come everywhere. It would be much easier (and cleaner) if she could wear them. She was excited when I asked her if she'd like to wear her babies like I wear her. I was thinking of asking my SIL to make a sling or something like she made for my neice.

Gillian: Jealous you got a night out to have fun! Sounds like it went perfectly! I too am not ready to leave M over night. Though I bet she would do ok.

Mal: I hope you get answers from your dr! They'll probably make you do the hormone tests that I have been doing. They're not a huge deal though. Just annoying to go have blood drawn.

So we decided to go for the house. It really is only an extra mile and a half further from the things we like. Just not walkable to them all. But so special to be up in this amazing nature area and we would have the ability to walk to the little farm and lake and carousel and hiking trails in there. Plus it does have a playground for the neighborhood that is nice and walkable to. It just made financial sense to get the bigger house that doesn't need any fixing up than to spend the same amount of money on a smaller house that we will outgrow soon and that will likely eat up all our savings with the repairs that it needs. Anyway, our offer is being submitted today. It's a foreclosure so we are dealing with a bank so I have no idea when we will actually know if we got it! Hopefully soon. I think we have a good chance. There is a lower offer in that the bank has countered but the selling agent thinks the bank will just go with us instead since nothing was signed or agreed to with the other people. But that remains to be seen.

As for birthday! I don't think we'll be doing a party this year. Last year was so much work. I might do something for her playgroup. She is just looking forward to eating cupcakes! She wants chocolate with pink frosting. 

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Mal* ... here's to finding answers! And finding the elusive 'o' in it all, eh?

*Cindy* ... That's big news! It sounds like a lovely area. I hope you get it. Fingers crossed! As for the Ergo, I'm sure any store that carries the Ergo could bring in a kids one, and I imagine you could order it online too. It looks really cute, and is a little different from the adult ones in that you tuck the doll in separately, so it stays in if you take it off, if you get my drift. Esmé NEVER, and I mean n.e.v.e.r, leaves the house without a lovey. For the past year she's been wearing them in a sling. It's really just an old scarf from the thrift store that's knotted on the diagonal and then once again in the middle (to help keep the lovey in). She can wear it in front or in back. I think she'll be excited about the Ergo ... we still use ours everyday, and it's what she knows. I'm excited to give it to her!


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## mckittre

Catching up a bit here. I can't believe everyone is talking birthdays already! I've been so focused on the new one's birth, that I haven't thought about Katmai's birthday at all yet. I must have a thing for holiday babies, though. One Valentine's Day, and now one New Year's. No one will forget their birthdays, but they have to share a bit with the rest of the world.

Courtney - fun that ours share a day. A good friend of mine in town actually had the New Year's baby last year (quite a coincidence in a town where about 7 babies were born in a year).

Cindy - good news about the test results, hopefully Makenna will be a big sister soon herself! I'm not sure what to say about the house either. We live in a very rural place, but also don't drive much (don't own a car, actually, though can borrow one when needed). It works well for us, but we set up our lifestyle to match. We do shopping errands infrequently, get outside in our immediate area for hikes a lot, don't mind carrying Katmai for a few miles to go somewhere, ride bikes, etc...

Gillian - sounds like Royce did great. I'm sure you'll have a good time in April. I was worried how Katmai would do when I went into labor with the new one, but it worked out great. Went to bed with dad, and didn't mind at all that Grandma was the one there the next day.

We managed to get home on the ferry just a bit over 24 hrs after she was born, and are so happy to be finally home. Katmai calls his new sister "Tuya baby" and seems more curious than jealous at the moment. He asks where she is, and what she's doing, and if she's OK when she cries (so far, she doesn't cry much). I'll see what happens when she stops sleeping all day and starts getting more demanding.

A few photos:


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## Vegan Princess

Aww Erin - you always have the most beautiful photos! The one of you nursing just takes my breath away.  Can't wait to have a tiny one at the breast again!

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

i think the house in the nature preserve thing sounds very cool. my fingers are crossed that you get it.

I have begun to think about birthdays. it begins with a mild exploration of possibilities months ago. Then I mildly revisit the subject before the

big kids get off of break from school since Josie's birthday is over the break (jan 1). I have discovered a mild metnion of a possible party warns people, then closer to the day (7 day forecast) I can decide if we have it inside or out. Juniper's birthday is Feb 8 and Jewel's March 5, so there isn't much time between parties. I had thought of combining them but Josie does not like big parties.

Juniper will probably have an outside party with some of her baby friends and cheeseburgers, because she really likes them. This we are are getting her on of those youth dining chairs, you know it looks like a normal chair but taller. She has an objection to high chairs (she's big like her sisters you know) and always stands in an adult chair to eat...which is terribly annoying.


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## AKislandgirl

I can't decide if we should do a party for Fiona or not. The idea stresses me out a little bit. I might just invite 2-3 families over for some snacks and cupcakes. I wish we could just meet at the beach to play but its too cold. That is more my style! No cool kids party places here. The place you described Starling sounds awesome! We will be visiting my family in a couple of weeks so we'll do an early birthday party with her cousins. I might decide that that is enough.

As for birthday gifts.... I saw a cool baby sling on etsy that I'm planning to get her. DH might make her a wooden doll bed for her babies if he has time but we are going to be gone for a couple of weeks before her birthday so I'm guessing he won't be able to do it. I also want to get a birthday ring so I've begun to shop around a bit for those. Feb 1st is creeping up fast! We originally did plan on a bike but we aren't sure she is big enough for them. What brand balance bike are you giving Starling? Mal, wasn't Owyn getingt one for Christmas? Does it work well for her?

Cindy, good luck on the house! The location sounds amazing.

Mal, hope you get some answers!

Erin, hope you are settling in nicely at home. I love your pictures!


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## Everrgreen

I love hearing all the birthday plans. I wish I could do a more fun kid birthday but there is only 1 toddler in town that I know. Maybe next year Royce will have some friends lol! But he does love going out to eat and I'm sure he'll be impressed with the cake 

I am very impressed with how well Royce did. I feel he will probably continue to do fine as I expand on the overnights. The big worry I have about the April trip is flying. I am terrified of flying. I think part of me was hoping that Royce would be devastated without me so I could have a reason not to go. But it is my best friends wedding and I know she really wants me there. But all I can think of is the flight. What if something happens? What if I don't come back? And my worry and 'what ifs' escalate from there :S

ANYWAY...

mckittre - love seeing the pics (again!) The nursing photo is very special - love it! And I'm glad you are all safe and snuggled at home!

mal - I'm sorry baby #2 is slow coming. I hope you can get some answers and a quick fix! Did you have trouble conceiving Owyn? Or is this new?

cindy - Keeping my fingers crossed for you! The neighbourhood does sound pretty great, even if you do have to drive for some things. I watched house hunters last week and it was a couple in California looking to buy a foreclosure and I thought of you  They got a pretty awesome deal - hopefully you will too!


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## Mal85

Owyn was supposed to be getting a balance bike from my ILs but the week of Christmas they mentioned it said age 3 and up on the box and were worried about giving it to her. I told them to go ahead with it and she'd just use it in the summer, but they didn't listen to me. So, she didn't get it. I was a little irked about it. We like to get things that can be used year round, not just at Christmas time. They haven't said if they sent it back. I'm hoping they held onto it to give her at another time.

Gillian, we didn't have any problems conceiving Owyn. In fact, she was a bit of a surprise. But my cycles were always long and unpredictable before I had her and I've always thought it was a bit of a fluke that we got pregnant with her so easily. In fact, just a couple of months before I got pregnant, I had an annual and my doctor and I had already been talking about when to work on my weird cycles to focus on getting pregnant a few months down the line. At the time, we were planning on trying at the end of that summer, but Owyn surprised us a few months early! So, I can't say I'm too surprised we're having trouble since I figured we would the first time around.


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## Vegan Princess

I definitely am going to get Makenna a doll ergo. Thanks Starling! Even DH likes it. I totally forgot, Makenna and I are going home to visit my family the week before her birthday and my mom wants to do a small party for her while we are down. So that will be nice and so special since they aren't around to celebrate any birthdays with us.

I like the little balance bikes. M def isn't ready though. She just has never been one of the super athletic kiddos. And that is fine by me! She loves to run but has never been a dare devil or a climber.

Gillian: Is there any way for you to get to the wedding without flying? Probably not without taking too much time away. You really are safer flying than driving though! Plane crashes are SO rare! I understand how you feel though bc I sometimes have similar thoughts even while out driving around while M is home w/her dad.

We are still waiting to hear on the house. To confound things, a small house in our ideal neighborhood that has been on the market for a while and out of our price range is about to drop the price. So our agent thinks we can make a lower offer and maybe get it. It will still cost us more than the one in the hills and is about 250 sq ft smaller. But DH could walk to the train for work, we could walk to every thing we love around here. Ugh. The hills one is 1400 sq ft and 3 bed, 2 bath. The flats one is 960 sq ft with an extra maybe 200 sq feet of unpermitted space (so can't be included in official sq footage). It is a 2 bed, 1 bath but the unpermitted space has an extra bedroom and 1/4 bath (basically just a toilet in the laundry room). The bedroom def couldn't be used for a little kid so our 2 kids (whnever baby #2 comes) would have to share. But the room could be used for play space or a guest room or room for 1 kid when they are older. I'm going to look at the flats house again tomorrow bc it's been a while since we saw it. I know we liked it but it was too expensive for us at the time so i forgot about details. I do know it has much less closet space and less storage space. Also the hills one has a large garage for storage and the flats one has no garage (it was torn down to make the yard bigger). So smaller and less storage means we would probably outgrow it soon. But perhaps we just need to collect less crap.  I feel funny wondering if we could fit in that house while McKittre is living in a yurt! Gesh!


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## Everrgreen

The wedding is in the bahamas so I must fly. I've been doing little visualizations of the flight - take off - in the air - landing. It's normal, it's safe, it happens everyday. I traveled a lot in high school, 5 trips by plane and was never afraid but I haven't been on a plane since. My stbx was afraid of flying and so we always went to driveable destinations. I guess his fear rubbed off on me. And now that I have Royce it's a whole other world.

I have a balance bike for Royce that I've been storing for ages. It was an awesome deal and on the box it actually said 18 months and up, but last summer I knew he wasn't ready. I'm saving it to give to him in the spring. I hope he will enjoy it!

Cindy - any decisions on your house dilemma? If it were me I would go for the bigger one, I need storage in my life! And the parks and nature would be great.

mckittre - how's the babymoon going?

I keep using the reply box at the bottom of the page and that means I can't see anyone's posts other than the one(s) on this page! I will need to go back now and see if I missed anything crucial ;o)


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## starling&diesel

Wonderful pics, *Erin*! How is our newest member of the tribe? How are you all settling in now as a family of four?

*Cindy* ... The balance bike we're giving dd is a Lionheart, but we only got it because it was so drastically on sale. I haven't done any research on them at all, so can't really recommend one over the other. Also on the subject of balance bikes ... I know that dd is not ready for one. She's very physically tentative, and won't likely take to it for a while, but we're going to take advantage of her birthday and give it to her anyway. Any house news?

*Sue* ... we got a lovely and very affordable birthday ring for E off of Etsy last year by a craftsman here in BC. His prices were very good and the shipping was fast too. I'm at work now but can look it up when I get home and can get a peak at the ring.


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: Bahamas? Without baby so you can relax? I'd conquer that fear!!  Sounds delightful!!! I'll volunteer to come along and talk you through it. LOL.

OMG mamas, we are ridiculous! We have so much trouble making up our minds!!! We put in the offer on the bigger house in the hills. The bank countered us and the other people who had a lower offer in. The counter was the same price we offered, just different terms for the inspection period. But DH took that as an opportunity for us to get out. We just were never confident in our decision - especially once we thought we might have a chance at the smaller house in our perfect area. So we chose not to sign the counter. We went and saw the smaller house again yesterday and it has more storage than we even remembered. It really is perfect for us and DH and I both really want it. And it is closer to the things we like to walk to than our house now even. Not to mention, it is only 3 blocks from the bart train that DH would be able to commute to work on (he drives now but we will sell his car since he only uses it for commuting). So we put in our offer last night. Waiting to hear! Our offer is well below ask so we don't know if they will take it. Their agent said they were about to lower the price but we don't know how much - so maybe they had a smaller reduction in mind. We shall see. Fingers crossed bc I am sure sure sure now that this is the house that I want and will be happy in!!! So now we probably won't get it. LOL.

Went to a meetup at a natural baby store. They had Becco carriers for dolls so I got one for Makenna's birthday. It actually looks like it might be better for her than the ergo bc I read that the ergo's top falls forward on kids (doesn't have the same strap that goes across shoulder blades like the adult one has - though you could add one yourself). The becco goes around the arm pits so it doesn't have that problem. But mosty I got it bc I was there and didn't have to order it and pay shipping. M won't know that it's different from an ergo.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Cindy: any news about the house(s)?

Gillian: I don't mind the big planes, but little planes always make me nervous. I'm so happy to be done flying back and forth for prenatal appointments. The statistics are very much on your side, though.

Someone gave us a balance bike (a skuut) hand-me-down for solstice. Katmai's both too short and also not coordinated enough for it yet. And we don't have any indoor space that works. So it'll be coming out next summer when the snow melts, I think. Right now he's practicing balance by walking on ice. 

We'll definitely have a birthday party for him, but I think we will put our foot down about NO PRESENTS. Moving back into the yurt, I'm already having to make a box for Salvation Army. And the thought of having Christmas plus birthdays for two kids within 6 weeks every winter is making my head spin - we'll need to have some sort of firmer anti-gift plan in place by next year.

We're all doing well settling in here. I kept in very good shape through pregnancy, and I'm having a bit of a hard time adjusting to feeling slow and tired and creaky now - but I keep trying to tell myself it's not even been a week! Neighbors and friends have been awesome in bringing by food - I didn't really expect it, but it's very nice.

A few more pics (and can find them all here: http://www.groundtruthtrekking.org/PhotoGroups/LituyaHigman/?image_id=2849)


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## AKislandgirl

Oh Erin! She melts my heart!!! the picture of the two of them sleeping is fabulous!!! Love it!


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## justKate

*Thursday*, I think I know exactly the dining chair you're talking about--I saw a really cute one at Ikea yesterday, like this? INGOLF chair at Ikea. Unfortunately we have one of those four in one highchairs that turns in to a "youth seat" so I have no excuse to buy one. The idea of multiple birthday parties sort of fills me with dread...hope you find a plan that works for everyone and isn't too stressful.

*Starling*, Esme sounds like the polar opposite of Aubrey. She sounds so articulate, controlled, aware... My mom says I was like that, speaking in complete sentences at 15 months. Its so strange to me that my child is so different! Her only sentences to date are: "Mommy, sit, sit mommy!" "More more more Yeti!" "More more Ming Ming!" and "Daddy, BITE, please!" I'm not even sure if those are all proper setences. Sigh.

*Cindy*, I hope the house works out. And maybe you're moving towards answers on the babymaking front, which would be good.

*Gillian*, I think its awesome that you're getting to take some breaks. And the Bahamas will be wonderful in April, so just try to put the "what ifs" out of your mind. No sense in worrying about the things we can't control, right?

*Erin*, I tried to post a Congrats but I think it got deleted. Anyway, CONGRATULATIONS! Lituya is beautiful. And it's so great that she got to come on her own time, what a lucky baby.

Hmm, birthdays already! Aubs isn't really getting a big present for her birthday (2/14). We are taking a trip to DC to see my family at the beginning of February, so that, along with tickets to see Elmo's Healthy Heros live on 2/19 will be plenty. I still have the eggs I bought for her on Etsy, so I might give those to her if I feel compelled to wrap something, but that's it. We don't do Valentine's Day, but I do worry about it encroaching on her birthday in the future when she has peers that do.

*Mal*, count me in the long cycles club. I'm averaging 40 days it seems. I saw my (super mainstream family practice) doc yesterday and had my thyroid tested. Normal. It was like 20 minutes of banging my head against the wall trying to explain that we use FAM for birth control and I would like to know why my cycles are wonky and I'm gaining weight. What a waste. I'm just going to chart and not worry about it until we move in May. Hopefully then I can find a midwife/gyn practice that is FAM-friendly and takes my insurance. Tall order, right? Of course if we were really TTC it would be a different story....

Oops, wow, it's 4:00 already. Time to go home. Huz had his sinus surgery on Monday, and is doing pretty well recovery-wise. Now if we can just get MIL home things can get back to normal....


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## Mal85

Erin, she is so adorable! Hopefully Katmai is enjoying the new addition. How lucky he is to be a big brother!!

Owyn is sick today. She started puking shortly after she got up this morning and has puked all day, hasn't kept anything down. This afternoon, I realized she hadn't had a wet diaper since she got up this morning and was still vomiting at least twice an hour and starting to act pretty lethargic... so, I called the doc asking when I should start to worry about her getting dehydrated and they said to bring her in. They said she appears to be moderately dehydrated and hopefully we were able to catch it before it got too bad. They gave her a shot of anti-nausea medication and sent us home with instructions to wake her every few minutes and make her take in fluids. So, we're watching her closely for a high fever and hoping she can keep down enough fluids to produce some wet diapers tonight. It's hard though because the shot they gave her also makes her very sleepy. She's been asleep since we left the doctor's office, so it's hard to tell what's lethargic and what's just sleepiness from the medicine. So far, no more puking since we got home and she has almost finished a cup of water, so hoping to get a wet diaper soon!


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## starling&diesel

Oh, poor *Owyn*! Fingers crossed that she's feeling better and there are a couple of wet dipes coming up!

*Cindy* ... I've rethought the *balance bike* for Esmé's birthday. I read what you wrote about M, and E is very much the same, not developmentally ready for it at all. I think we'll keep it in the closet for another little while and bring it out in the summer. Thanks for getting me thinking!

*Kate* ... It's true that Esmé is super verbal, but I tell you, she has her challenges ... especially with anxiety and social situations. I worry about her, but I hope that with time, she'll come into her own and be more comfortable with the world at large. She talks circles around her friend's, but they RUN circles around her.

*Mckittre* ... Lovely pics! I love the knitted socks and hat. Who knit them?

We are doing NO PRESENTS for E's birthday. That's why we do a fundraiser instead, to shift people away from presents for her and towards bringing donations for the Food Bank Basics For Babies program. We did that last year and it seemed to help with people's need to bring SOMETHING.


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## AKislandgirl

I'm realizing that a balance bike just isn't right for Fiona this birthday either. We may just get her one this summer if she seems ready. We'll stick to the baby sling for her birthday I think. Thanks for the input ladies.

I'm on my 2nd cycle of clomid now. My insurance was being crazy and I've started it a day later then I should have so we'll see. I just want to get to a dose that I ovulate on and figure out if I need to do another IUI or what. I hate the waiting and trying to patient. I'll know in a few weeks at least if this is the right dose. If not. on to 150 mg next month. That is the highest dose my doc will give. It's what I needed last time. I wish I could have just skipped right to that dose in the first place.

Starling, do you and DP have any more baby plans? I know you said that there were 2 more embryos. I hope you don't mind my asking.


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## starling&diesel

*Sue* ... Good luck with the clomid! I hope you find the perfect dose soon.

As for our baby plans ... we're going ahead and doing our last IVF cycle this month, back-to-back with the last one that resulted in the bfn. We do have two embryos left, and they are of the least quality of the 11 original embryos. One of the last ones started to fragment after the thaw, meaning that there wasn't a lot of hope of that one being viable from the get go, although the other one was doing well when it was transferred. I worry that these last two won't survive the thaw, so we're trying hard to not get our hopes up this time. We were such dupes last time, to think that it would happen again so easily.

We'd be thrilled to have another child, but it might just not be in the cards for us. And here I was worried about multiples! So, the ultrasound to test my lining is booked for Jan 14, and if the lining is good (should be) then we'll plan to do the transfer on the Monday following, I would imagine. That is, like I said, if the last two embies survive the thaw. Whatever happens, I feel good about giving each embryo a chance.

If we don't get pregnant, then that will be the end of our babymaking journey. Perhaps our family would expand some other way, but if not, we're more than thrilled to have our one little miracle.


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## Thursday Girl

I hope Owyn pees soon. Poor little thing.

Cindy good luck on the house!!!

Erin, I also love the hat and booties.

I have a question, how do you pronounce Lituya's name. I am vacillating between two options.

All this talk of balance bikes makes me realize that would be a really good present for Junie. I think I might try to talk my sister into getting her either the chair (our chairs have straight backs and the black will help hide food) or a balance bike. found this one at amazon for $60ish. She is so ready for it and I think it would motivate my older 2 to ride a bike if their baby sister could do it. LOL. I'm mean.

Kate, I think experiences are GREAT birthday gifts. My sister gets the older girls (and me) tickets to plays and the like for their birthdays. In the end it's generally a lot more meaningful and the remember what they received instead of a toy that blends in with the rest and then eventually isn't played with anymore. Last year my sister got me stomp tickets, I don't remember what anyone else got me.PLUS it doesn't clutter up the house. total bonus.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: How scary! I remember when M was around a year and wouldn't drink much and had a high fever. I had to squirt a dropper full of water in her mouth every 10 minutes. So stressful. I hope Owy has peed and is doing better!

Starling: I'm glad I got the wheels turning about the bike. I'm sure she will love it when the time is right. I'm so excited for your next round of IVF! I'm hoping that at least 1 emby survives the adventure! You sound very at peace about the entire outcome though.

Kate: You'll have to let us know how Elmo live is! Makenna would love that. Not so sure I would though. LOL.

Sue: I hope the clomid works this round! Must be so frustrating not knowing until halfway though the 2 week wait.

So we are in escrow!!!! The sellers of the smaller house in the area we like signed our offer today!!! We're so excited. We have to do inspections on sunday and monday so there is potential to find something that could make us walk. But this house is in great shape and they have current reports and reports from when it sold in 2008 and they say the same things...so I doubt our inspections will find much. You just never know with these old houses though. This one was built in 1941. Actually 20 years newer than the last one we were in escrow on in august and walked from when we found 70k worth of work that wasn't disclosed.

Also, I think I am about to ovulate and it's only day 10 of my cycle. Really early in my cycle so it is a nice surprise to get it over with. Also means I will ovulate early enough to be able to get my progesterone levels tested before going out of town to visit my family.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Well we made it through the night. Owyn had two wet diapers before we went to bed last night. I still worried because she had a little bit of a fever and the medicine the doc gave her made her so sleepy it was really hard to tell if she was lethargic or if she was feeling better. She was so out of it, I did have to give her water from a medicine dropper several times because she just wouldn't sit up to get a drink. She slept from about 4 yesterday afternoon and all the way through the night. It's about 7:45 am right now and she's still sleeping. We kept her in our room last night so we could keep an eye on her. She woke once in the middle of the night, drank quite a bit of water and went back to sleep. The two daycare kids that were here when she started puking are now doing the same thing, poor babies. I hate when we get the others sick.

Starling, good luck with the embryos!

Cindy, so excited about the house for you guys, really hoping it works out this time!


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## mckittre

Cindy: Exciting about the house! Hope it works out for you this time.

Mal: Glad Owyn's doing a little better. Hope she kicks the bug soon.

Kate: Katmai's Valentine's Day as well. Older people I know with the birthday say they better grow up liking chocolate, because they'll get tons.

Starling: Good luck with the embryos. You sound fairly at peace with the results either way though, which is great if you can be in that frame of mind.

A friend and neighbor knitted Lituya's socks and hat. I had to take a picture in them right away, because she's already growing out of the hat (and some of the cute newborn things as well).

I'm going to take Katmai to a weekly playgroup thing today he hasn't been to since we left town to wait for baby. The social interaction is good for him - he's a bit shy at times. He's super super verbal these days, and pretty much everyone can understand him without translation - except he still calls himself "you" and other folks "me". He confuses the heck out of everyone coming up and telling some complicated story with all the pronouns reversed, even if we don't notice it anymore. Funny that's the one piece of language he can't seem to get.

Lituya's name is pronounced: Li (like lit or bit or mitt) - Tu (like too) - Ya (like the yuh or yah in "Lydia"). The most prominent syllable is the "Tu".

Lituya Bay is in southeast Alaska, a hundred miles from the nearest human settlements. It forms the only protected harbor in a long exposed coast, and was carved by glaciers out of tall mountains. The ocean and forest around it is rich with bears, sea lions, salmon, and giant spruce trees. It's most famous for a tsunami in 1958 that knocked trees down 1500 feet above sea level. There is evidence that this was the last and largest of a series of similar tsunamis, which may be why the native settlement that the French explorer La Perouse documented in the late 1700s was abandoned by the time westerners frequented the place. La Perouse lost much of his crew here to the violent tidal rip at the mouth of the bay. For me, it's a dramatic and mysterious place that stood out on our 4000 mile trek. And it's a nice name.


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## AKislandgirl

I'm so glad that Owyn got some water in her. I hope she is feeling much better today when she gets up.

Starling, sending good vibes your way. It does sound like you are at peace either way this turns out. I sure hope it turns out well for you!

Cindy, great news about the house!!!  Sounds like it will be perfect for you guys.

Do you guys have picky eaters? Fiona lately has been refusing foods she used to eat up like a champ. It's frustrating to not have her eat dinner because she says, "no yike it." I don't want to get into battles over food but I need her to eat! She's such a tiny little thing that I worry when she has days where she just picks at her food. Other days she does scarf it down. Sigh. Don't really know how to handle it. I don't want her to just live off of corn tortilla quesadillas with beans. "Tias" are her favorite and she will always eat that but she should eat other things too! I'd love some ideas here. I do think she'll eat when she's hungry but when she skips dinner she becomes a nursing maniac so she obviously has some appetite. (It's not from teething either because she has all of her teeth including the 2 year molars)


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## justKate

Mal, I'm hoping Owyn is feeling better. It's lousy being sick. Surprisingly, Aubs hasn't been really sick in a long time. Seems like she got it all out of her system last fall. It is scary though. I worry sometimes about her being unvaxed. But not enough to get the vaxes done...

Starling, I'm glad that you've got a good outlook on babymaking. I wanted to ask but was also afraid to bring it up. I guess all you can do is try. And I hope that whatever the outcome, it will be the right one for your family.

Erin, I remember seeing a program a long time ago on Lituya Bay--I think it was a Discovery program on mysterious places around the world or something. It was really incredible--the trees all the way up the mountains were blown outward, as if the bay exploded one day and then went back to normal. Beautiful choice!

Mal/Cindy/Sue, what are the guidelines for seeking fertility treatment, in general? Seems like I remember seeing "actively TTC for a year or longer" somewhere, but I don't remember what age that applied to. We are FAMing/whatevering right now, but I am thinking about finding a good doc after we move to try to get my cycles straightened out with TTC in mind. I'll be 30 this year....

Hmm, Elmo Live. Yeah. It's probably going to be terrible, but terrible is a relative term when talking about childrens' programming. Is it completely inappropriate to ask whether they serve alcohol at events like that? I'll let you all know.


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## starling&diesel

*Erin* ... What a great story behind Lituya's name. And I'm please to discover that I've been pronouncing it right!

*Sue* ... Esmé eats anything, so not much help there. But her best bud is fairy picky, and so what his mom does is put out a muffin tray of goodies at a table at his height (we do this to, but not every day) with a variety of food (chickpeas, cooked carrots, cheese, grapes, frozen peas, crackers) and he grazes. That way, he'll go to it when he's hungry, and they skip the process of meal prep and/or him having to ask or his mom having to offer. He still joins the family at meal time, but there's no pressure to eat.

*Cindy* ... Wonderful news about the house! Pictures? MLS listing? I LOVE REAL ESTATE. Which is probably why we've lived in five homes in five years. Phew.

*Kate* ... Regarding Elmo Live, Esmé would be terrified! She'd run screaming out of the building and need to talk endlessly about for months afterward. I wanted to go to Suessical the Musical here over Christmas, but DP gently reminded me that while I might want to go, that Esmé would most certainly NOT want to be in a dark theatre with a hundred other people watching large strange creature galavant across the stage while loud music pulsed out from the speakers. That has got to be Esmé's worst nightmare. Ah well, maybe when she's older. I can't wait to take her to shows and plays and concerts. She's already a folk festival veteran, so we're off to a good start.


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## Vegan Princess

Glad Owyn is peeing. I hope she is well today!

Erin: How cool to have a name after a beautiful and mysterious place! I was pronouncing it right too! 

Starling: I'll try and post some pics later.

Kate: I think they say a year of trying. But if you know something isn't right, it cant hurt to ask earlier. Like I knew my cycles were too short after ovulation so they started on hormone testing, even though it had only been a few months. I reccomend asking your gyn though, not your family guy.

As for eating. I have picky eater supreme! Has been since she started solids. Still won't eat any fruit unless it is dried and devoid of nutrients. Thankfully she has a few veggies she will gobble down. And I give a multi vitamin daily. She also goes through phases where she eats non stop and then not so much and gets extra picky when she's not eating as much. I think it's pretty typical. If you are really worried, give her a vitamin. But I have heard from multiple sources that as long as they get a balanced diet over a week then they are doing ok. Oh but you are worried about calories...maybe extra cheese? Oh and we do the muffin tray here too - unfortunately, my child eats only the stuff she likes and leaves all the others. Her friend where she goes for a baby sitting swap once/week puts out the tray always...and Makenna eats pasta and olives and anything bready and leaves the rest.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks guys. I'm going to try the muffin tray thing and see what she thinks of it. Thankfully she does love fruit, walnuts, and such. When she is in an eating mode she eats well I'd say. It's just the non eating mode I worry about I guess. We do a multivitamin too.

Kate: the general rule of thumb is 1 year of trying. 6 months if you are aged 35 or older. that being said... if you know that your cycles are all over the place and you suspect that you aren't ovulating I'd ask for the bloodwork. Just tell them you have been trying for a year if it seems they would be reluctant otherwise. Any more word on where you will be moving. I'm still holding out hope for Kodiak!


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## Vegan Princess

Ok let's see if I can post some pics.





So excited! The yard is tiny but great for little ons. There is a big park with lots of open grassy space only a couple blocks away if a kiddo wants to play some sports when she is older. Now we are wondering what a good outdoor toy would be for Makenna's birthday...since escrow is supposed to close a week after her birthday.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Oh, *Cindy*! It's DARLING! I love, love, love, love, love, love it! I'm so thrilled for you. That yard is adorable, and so manageable! I found that size yard so much more satisfying that trying to keep up with 1/3 acre or bigger. This way you can putter with the plants and have an eye on M. I am so stinkingly jealous. Fingers crossed that all goes well!


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## AKislandgirl

It is so cute! Love it! Crossing fingers that nothing surprising shows up. You guys are going to love living there! That yard is super cute! Yeah!


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Oh the house is so cute!! I love it! I hope everything goes smoothly 

Starling - I'm glad that you are at peace with whatever happens. But I will be thinking of you and your little embryos and hoping it all works out 

AK - Royce can be pretty picky sometimes. Other times he does well. He is still nursing and will often refuse to eat breakfast but then just wants to nurse. It is kind of annoying but at least I know he's getting something. Whenever he asks to nurse and it's not naptime or bedtime I will always try and distract with food sometimes it works sometimes he just wants 'num num' Oh well!

I love hearing about all the little personality differences our little ones have. It is so interesting how much their personalities are defined at such a young age. Royce is kind of an odd mix of traits. He is my exhausting wild child, but also can be overly cautious about some things. He is usually laughing and acting silly but other times he is so serious about completing a task. He is annoyingly mischevious and so darn clever. But he is also so cuddly and loves kisses and hugs and boobs lol! I'm always trying to picture what he'll be like at 4, at 8, or as a teenager, it's so exciting to think about


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## Mal85

Cindy, the house is adorable! Fingers crossed for you!

Gillian, I agree, it is so much fun figuring them out! Everytime I think I've got Owyn all figured out, I learn something new about her. I was just telling my mom about her outgoing, sort of bossy personality and how I could imagine her in preschool, making friends and driving me crazy with her little social life. My mom said it always surprised her with her 6 kids how much we could change through our childhood years. She said when I was younger, I never knew a stranger. I danced around the house in my underwear, making up songs and playing with my imaginary friends. But once I got into school, I became more shy, which she didn't expect at all. You just never know!


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy, I love the house, it's adroable!!

Erin, cool, I was pronouncing it right and then I questioned myself and pronounced it wrong. LOL. first insticnct right. I love the story behind it.

personalitieis- I was surprised by how much my first daughters personalty changed. Then amazed how different my secomd daughter was from my first. Now just enjoying and knowing that I will always be surprised is fun. Junie is super sweet. We call her our equal oppurtunity babe b/c she gives equal love to all the adults in her life where the other two clearly had favorites. She doe sHATE to be babies by other kids, she hates to be picked up or even hugged by them unless she initiates it, I think because she won't allow herself to be treated like a baby by anyone. Nursing doesn't count to her though. i guess when she starts to get tired she let's me baby her.


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## mckittre

Cindy: The house looks great! Hoping that it all works out this time!

Picky eating - Katmai is fairly picky, though probably not terrible for a toddler. He loves fruit, but the only vegetable he'll really gobble down is tomato. Sometimes he'll eat peas. Sometimes sweet potato. Most greens and veggies he'll ignore entirely. Salmon is probably his healthiest favorite, which is good, since it's a staple for us. I've been resorting to feeding him more and more, since it seems like he's far too distracted to eat much on his own, and will eat about twice as much if we put it in his mouth for him. Now it's getting worse, because I actually have milk again, so nursing is replacing some of his food.

Personality - He's our never-shuts-up bossy little guy - talking all day long about exactly what's going on and what he thinks should be happening instead. "She not want go cry! She wants some more nursing!" (a common quote about his new baby sister). When other kids come around, he's more likely to just go "aah!" and wave his arms at them to get them to go away and give him some space. The new toys at other people's houses are a big hit, the kids that come with them, not so much. I kind of feel like he needs to get a bit older to find some real peers - younger kids aren't verbal enough for him, and older ones are too overwhelming. His physical caution is probably a good thing, though, since nearly all of his outdoor play these days involves walking on ice.


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## Nillarilla

Cindy, I hope you get the house it looks fabulous!

Starling fingers crossed for your embryo's

Mal I hope Owyn is back to her bouncy self

McKittre SHE IS GORGEOUS! Makes me want another but all I have to think of is the back pain and I'm back in reality.

How is PL going for everyone? We are actually making some progress here we are at about a 50% success rate with pee. Poop well that's another story.

Personality well my girl she's got loads of it. She makes me smile everyday and even when she is being very naughty she is so hard to be angry with. She's a loveable goof. She's also very bossy lol.

Picky eating Sue Fiona is gluten intolerant right? Delia is too as well as for dairy and usually when she's off her food it's almost always because of a hidden gluten or dairy protien she's gotten (or not so hidden in the case of the eaten christmas ornament). I got a baking sheet from pampered chef for christmas and my hubby didn't tell me it was used before. She reacted the night I used it for cookies. She also reacted after dh making french toast for her after my son's which had gluten even though he scrubbed the pan. Even wooden spoons can be a source of contamination. The more I learn the harder it seems. Until she started healing she wouldn't eat much. A good probiotic and some healthy fats worked for D. She also loves her coconut milk which is high in calories. Oh and I have a website I keep meaning to pass on to you. I've made some awesome things off this site. I made her multigrain GF bread today and it has the best texture of any GF bread I've made so far.


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## AKislandgirl

Thank you for that link. I've checked out the website but not made any of her recipes. I have done some from gluten free girl and the chef with somewhat good results. One batch of bread was good... the other not so much. I was distracted and didn't pay enough attention! Total user error there!

I have tomorrow off from child care which is good because I have to get the house ready and pack! We are heading out on Thursday to visit my family in Washington. I can't wait! Of course I have to clean the house for the house sitter, finish laundry and pack all of our stuff. Yikes! This will be the first time in a long time that I have DH's help on both legs of the flight though. Usually its just Fiona and me. Fiona has lots of cousins and farm animals to play with. We can't wait to get her down there.

Tonight I start my yoga class too. I wasn't sure because the class is right at dinner hour but I decided that 2 days a week DH and Fiona can just eat without me and I'll eat when I get home. I really need some time to myself and I really need to get back to yoga. I told him the timing might be off but it will make me a better mom! He knows that I haven't had any time to myself since Fiona was born save for an hour here or there so he agreed. I'm really excited about it. I'll only get one class in before vacation though. I may go as a drop in with my niece while we are down south though. I can feel the feeling of zen coming over me now!


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## Everrgreen

AK - Enjoy the yoga! I just went last night at the ymca, I also went once in December. I used to go all the time when I was pregnant but this is my first time back at it since Royce was born. I need to start going more regularly again. I also have been doing a spinning class at the y which is awesome 

Oh and enjoy your trip too 

PLing - We have the potty, I make lots of references too it, explain what I'm doing when I go, talk to him about using the potty during diaper changes, etc. He *knows* what the potty is for and is aware of his pees and poops (will usually tell me when he poops) BUT he will not go in the potty. I have tried sitting him on it first thing in the morning or after naps, he will sit there and sit there, I tell him a story or sing a song, he will continue to sit there, then I usually get distracted for a minute and next thing I know he peed on the floor :/ I'm trying not to stress to much about it but it does seriously annoy me when he pees on the floor after sitting on the potty for 5 minutes and doing nothing. Grrrr... Today I read the section on PLing in my Dr. Sears book and Royce has all the signs of being ready and I'm mostly following the advice (I need to work on not showing frustration when he pees on the floor). Anyway, I am hoping to potty learn this spring/summer when it's warmer and he can just stay naked.


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## mckittre

Sue - have fun with yoga and your trip! When I lived in Seattle, I used to do aikido (a non-competitive Japanese martial art), but that's one of the things I give up in living in a very small town. There are a few folks here who do yoga though - maybe I should start.

Potty learning - We lost all our progress with the nearly a month out of town without a potty, so we're reintroducing it now. Not much luck so far, but he did pee in it yesterday.

It's nice to have figured out baby carrying already, now that I have two. I still haven't gotten nursing in a wrap, but I've figured out how to carry both kids at once! (Lituya is all tucked away under my coat on the front.


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## justKate

PLing, "NNnnnnnnnn NO!" according to Aubrey. Another lovely thing she learned at daycare.







I try to make it a big game, responding with "MMMMMmmm Mommy!" "MMMMmmm Monkey!" But she doesn't think I'm funny. We are taking a break from the potty, because I don't want it to become a sore point. Not sure if i mentioned it here, but last week we got Aubs a toddler bed. She's always had a crib mattress in our room, but of course never slept on it. Since we put the toddler bed in our room, she has slept in it EVERY NIGHT. At least half of the night, which has been amazing. I really miss her, but we are all sleeping better. We've made so much progress there I don't dare ask for anything else.

I'm getting so anxious to know where we're moving I can hardly stand it. FOUR months left, and we have no idea where we're going. At least that's only four months of work left. Yay!

Erin, you're a rockstar. I would have no idea how to get Aubs on my back with a little one on front!

I would really like to start getting some exercise, somehow. Honestly, I'll probably have to ask Huz to give me one evening (for starters) a week to take a class or go to the gym or something, and make it "officially" my time. I wish there was something I could do for "real" exercise with Aubs (like hiking in the snow!), but I don't know what--walking doesn't cut it, because it's flat here. Running isn't possible, because we don't have a jogging stroller and I'm not buying one. I can't even do a yoga or pilates video because Aubs is on top of me the minute i get on the floor. Any suggestions?


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## Mal85

Erin, you never cease to amaze me!

As for working out, I don't. I would like to. I took a water body sculpting class over the summer and really liked it, but no local indoor pool to continue it. Every other work out class in town is always taught by my MIL. That's what she does. So, on the one hand I can take all the classes I want for free.. but I'm really out of shape and would actually feel a lot more comfortable taking a class from a stranger. My MIL means well, but I'm easily embarrassed so don't really want to take a class from her. So, that really limits me. When it comes to losing weight, my main problem is portion control and snacking in the evening. Both of which I'm determined to do better about this year.

I'm headed to the doc today. I ended up starting my period over the weekend and was praying it'd be gone by today since I'm going for a regular check up as well. Luckily, it was gone by last night.

I've started thinking about what kind of party thing we want to do for Owyn's birthday. We still have a while though so I'm not getting ahead of myself. I'm on the hunt for a wooden kitchen for $100-ish. It's proving to be pretty frustrating since I saw a ton of good deals on kitchens before Christmas and now the prices have gone up on all of them! We decided to have a small birthday party and invite all of Owyn's friends. We'll probably bbq and have cake. I had already decided to do a rainbow cake so we're just going with a rainbow theme for the whole thing.


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## Everrgreen

mckittre - Oh great photo! Your pics always make my heart ache for another baby. I haven't worn Royce in ages. I even bought a toddler carrier at the end of the summer, but haven't used it a whole lot. I should get it out and go for a walk through the snow!

justKate - wow, I can't believe you still don't know where you're moving! I would be going crazy! When do you find out?

My mom would like to get Royce his own bed for his birthday. I told her I'd think about it. On one hand it would be nice to get it so it's there and he can get used to it. On the other hand it seems kind of silly for him to have his own bed and for me to be by myself in a giant kingsize. I really don't think he would sleep in his own bed either as his favourite place to sleep is on top of me or at least pressed up against me. But maybe it would be good to have...

I really like having classes at the y because I need the motivation. I can't do as good of a work out on my own. The spinning classes are really intense but I feel so good afterwards. The tricky part though is getting babysitting. They have childcare there but Royce will only stay in it on Sunday mornings (I guess he likes the girl that works that day, I don't really know!)

Royce's birthday party is this Saturday. We are just going to a restaurant, nothing too exciting. And the guests are all adults but that's ok. I'm just going to pick up some cupcakes and balloons for his chair and I'm done.


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## starling&diesel

Mckittre ... Swoon! Lovely pic! You look fabulous, by the way!

Gillian ... Funny, my mom is rooting for DD to get her own bed too. We're all squished in a queen though, so we could use the space. If we had a king, no way! Is she hoping that he'll be in his own bed for when you go away or will your mom sleep with him?

Mal ... I'd feel the EXACT same way about taking fitness classes from MIL. *Awkward!* Your birthday plans sound fun! Yay for bbq!

AFM: I got to hold a newborn the other day ... well, he's five weeks, but was a preemie with health complications so he's very wee. Just six pounds now. Esmé patted his bum and stroked his head and sang him "Frosty The Snowman" and "John the Rabbit." She got a doll and nursed it beside me, and then when the babe started fussing, she told me he needed num nums. He's a foster baby, and the mom isn't nursing, so I told Esmé that his mom doesn't have num nums anymore (she did used to nurse her sickly foster babies on the sly, but she's older now and doesn't lactate) and she got very upset for him. "He needs nursing, mama! Needs num nums, stop crying with num nums. Mama give baby num nums, yeah, okay?" She pulled up my shirt and started nursing and then popped off and said, "See baby? Num nums good! Taste like blueberries! Yeah!"

Birthday plans: Invites are ordered, but haven't arrived. So I sent an email invite. We decided to join forces with another family whose son is Esmé's best friend. His birthday is also at the end of the month, so we're going to have a joint party. Should be fun! Lots of people and lots of food! We're still doing the Food Bank fundraiser, so with double the folks, we should be able to give a good chunk of money to the Basics For Babies program. Looking forward to it!


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## starling&diesel

ps. Notice that I am completely ignoring the discussion on working out. Enough said.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: Num nums taste like blueberries? I love it! LOL! Looks like Esme would make a fantastic big sister! I hope that works out!

Erin: You rock! Love seeing you all loaded up with babies.

Exercise: I go to the Y. Makenna loves going. This week I have been feeling lazy and she has insisted we go. But only bc she wants to play w/their baby dolls. She wants to go to all her friends' houses to play w/their dolls. LOL. She is very into dolls and babies. She was with the nanny on Tuesday while I worked and she infomed me Makenna LOVES babies. Like I didn't know this already. Anyway, back to the exercise train of thought. I love bikram yoga and did it often before getting pregnant and even fairly regularly while prego. But not much after. Lately I have been going more but maybe once/week. I keep thinking of taking an evening to do it and leaving M and DH to fend for dinner and bedtime. But mostly I am lazy by 6:30 when the class is. I sometimes go when I do a babysitting swap w/my friend. *Have any of you thought about babysitting swaps if you need childcare to workout?*

Mamas, I'm trying not to get my hopes up but i think I *might* be pregnant! I am only 6 dpo but I have been having cramping and pink/brown tinged CM for the last 2 days. I never ever spot like this unless I am about to start my period or I am prego. I had this when I was prego w/M and when I had my chemical 2 months ago. I suppose something wierd could be going on so I am a bit freaked out what it could be, if I am not prego. Now that I am not nursing, there should be no way I'd get AF this early! I guess time will tell. I of course tested this morning and it was negative. Of course - it is so early! Oh the spotting w/M and the chemical was at 10 and 11 dpo, not 4 and 5! So maybe if I am prego, I will get an early BFP! I'll be testing daily. My mom tried to tell me I need to wait until I am late. No way I could restrain myself and do that!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Quote:
Originally Posted by *starling&diesel* 

Gillian ... Funny, my mom is rooting for DD to get her own bed too. We're all squished in a queen though, so we could use the space. If we had a king, no way! Is she hoping that he'll be in his own bed for when you go away or will your mom sleep with him?

No she is fine sleeping with him. Her reason that she gives is so that when I start dating Royce will be used to sleeping alone sometimes so that I can have my bed free. She's concerned about my sex life apparently lol! Oh mom!

I love the blueberries comment - so cute. Royce's vocabulary isn't good enough at this point for describing breastmilk. But I did notice lately he's been calling it either num num or mama, he will say 'mommy? mama?' (as in can I have mama/nurse?) Mostly he calls it num num though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 

*Have any of you thought about babysitting swaps if you need childcare to workout?*

I don't have any mom friends unfortunately! I moved to this town because I have a great group of supportive friends, but none of them have any kids yet!! But I have a friend to watch him twice a week for 2 evening classes (yoga and spinning) and then there is another spinning on Sunday mornings but Royce will stay in childcare that day. And I'm going to try one more weekday morning and see if he will stay in childcare then too. Plus we go to swimming Friday mornings. So I will be making good use of this y membership! I had spinning again tonight. I am really loving it!

Oh and yay about maybe being pregnant!!! I am sending you lots and lots of baby dust and keeping you in my thoughts!!

Tomorrow my 'stbx' is apparently coming to see Royce for the first time since August. I'm dreading it. We have court coming up in a couple weeks so I'm sure he's just trying to look better before that. Wish me luck ladies!


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## Mal85

Gillian, I really hope everything goes okay with Royce's dad. For Royce's sake anyway... He's a lucky little guy to have you!

So, I went to the doc yesterday. They told me pretty much what I already know. It looks like I'm not ovulating regularly. So, I'm going back on the 31 to do blood work and decide if we want to go the clomid route. Going to buy some OPKs today. I really have no idea when to expect ovulation so it's hard to know when to take the test, but I'll try everyday if I have to! I really want to avoid medication if I can. They did say it's a good sign that I have successfully gotten pregnant on my own and that pregnancy was successful. So, we're hopeful it's just a matter of getting my cycles on track and keeping our fingers crossed we won't have to do anymore than that.


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... That's a lot of peeing on sticks! Did you get them cheap somewhere? I hope you are pregnant indeed!!! Come on, BFP! So exciting!

*Gillian* ... How unsettling, and uncomfortable, and awkward. I hope that you're meeting somewhere neutral? And that you'll be there the whole time? I imagine Royce won't have a clue who he is, or has he talked to him on the phone or skype? It certainly does sound like he's buttering up his image for the sole purpose of court.

*Mal* ... So will you track a couple of cycles before trying to catch the egg? Or do the opk's and try to catch the egg as soon as it shows positive the very first time? I'm certain that it's only a matter of time.

*AFU*: We went and did the uterine-lining ultrasound today. We waited for nearly TWO HOURS because the clinic was super duper busy. That didn't impress Esmé at all. When I finally did get called in, she stayed with DP in the waiting area being that she freaked out last time. Lining looks good! We're booked for the FET for Tuesday, so long as the embies survive the thaw.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: I order cheap pregnacy tests online from amazon. I get 50 for $10!! So why not waste a few? LOL! I'll be thinking good thoughts for those embryos come Tuesday!! Stick baby stick!!

Gillian: Sounds like you are doing pretty great on the exercise front!

BFN today. Only 7 dpo though. So we shall see what the next week brings. I gotmy BFP w/Makenna while visiting my mom. We are going to spend next week with my mom, so maybe she'll bring me good luck again. 

Makenna has started singing. It isthe cutest thing I've ever heard!! She is self conscious about it though and often won't do it. She's singing the ABCs right now.

Oh and I asked the little girl I was babysitting today what "milkies" (their word for nurse) taste like - she said apple juice. LOL!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Cindy, Owyn has started singing too! She tries Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star, but mostly she just makes up songs to sing to her babies. I never can understand what she's saying, but it's so sweet when she nurses her babies and sings to them while they "eat". She'll make a great mommy one day!

As for trying, we're going to try to catch that egg as soon as possible. I was headed to buy some OPKs earlier today when I got a phone call from one of my daycare mamas. She just had a question for me and we got to talking about me trying for a baby and she said she has a bunch of OPKs leftover from when she was trying that I can have if I want. So, she's bringing them by later today. Do those things have an expiration date??

After my talk with the doc yesterday, the thoughts are that on average (on the months when I do ovulate), it's most likely around 4 weeks after my period. This week's period just ended Wednesday, so I'll start trying with the OPKs 3 weeks from when I started and see when/if I get a +.

As for Owyn, we went swimming earlier today. I've been planning little field trips on the days when I only have one daycare kid, preferrably the one that's Owyn's age. I have several part time kiddos lately, so it's rare that I get a day with just the two of them anymore. Today, we went to the next town over where there's an indoor pool. My friend and her 7 month old little boy were supposed to come, but they are all sick today so I was on my own. I was a little nervous about going alone with 2 almost-2 year olds. But they did great! We had the pool to ourselves which they thought was just awesome. Then, afterwards we went out to lunch, which also could have been a disaster, but they were fabulous! Both of them passed out on the way home and are still sleeping now. I think I only have the one next Friday as well, so we may have to make the trip back and hopefully take some more friends with us!


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Oh wow, you are brave! lol! Royce had his swimming lesson today and it's hard with just one! He didn't want to wear a life jacket and the water is just shallow enough that he can walk (it's a shallow therapy pool). And so all he wants to do is be on his feet walking through the water and I am NOT allowed to touch him. But a few times he stumbled and would go under and then I had to grab him quickly. I guess if I had 2 there life jackets would be mandatory!

Oh, and OPKS do have an expiry date, so you'll have to check that when you get them.

So Royce had a good visit with his dad today. I just had him come to my place and I stayed the whole time. I did try and get some chores done so I wasn't constantly hovering right there. It was difficult though. Just hard to see him and thinking about everything that's happened and have our 'family' together the way it should have been. But I guess that's just something I need to get used to. I do hope that he can be consistently involved, I think that is in Royce's best interest. We shall see what happens in the future.


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## Mal85

Gillian, I'm glad things went smoothly with Royce and his dad. Any word on him spending more time with him? And how was his birthday party? I hope he had a fabulous day! Can't believe he's turning two already, the first of many birthdays coming up here!!

Cindy, you said you buy cheapy pregnancy tests on Amazon? What tests do you buy? Can you get OPKs there too?

Hope everyone had a great weekend. We took Owyn sledding, which she did not approve of. Granted it was kind of a big hill and she kind of flipped out with DH went down. I think she thought he was going to get hurt. So, we tried a smaller hill in my parents' backyard, but it was already too much for her. So, we just played in the snow instead.

I don't know what's happened, but she's suddenly been taking 2.5-3 hour naps for the last week or so! Of course, now that I've told you guys that, she'll be awake after an hour. The longer naps mean she has been waking up earlier in the morning. But, we have a pack n play in our room for one of my daycare kids, so DH has been bringing her in there with us and laying her down in the pack n play. She doesn't go back to sleep, but she likes hanging out there while we doze for a little longer.

Oh and her latest development... picking her nose and eating her boogers. It's so gross! Her finger lives in her nose lately. Yuck!!!


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## Everrgreen

Royce's party went well! Royce got to fill up on chips and salsa, fries, and a cupcake (or at least, the icing from the cupcake lol!) And I got some balloons to tie to his chair and he was pretty excited about those. It was fun! Tomorrow is his actual birthday. 2 YEARS OLD! Wow. At this time 2 years ago my water had broke and the midwife had confirmed it was amniotic fluid but I had no contractions. I continued to leak amniotic fluid all evening but also went for a nice long walk in the snow and had spicy indian food for dinner to try and kick start things. My contractions started just after I went to bed (around 10:30-11pm). Laboured through the night and was fully dilated by 8:30am and after 3 hours of pushing Royce was born at 11:39am. So many memories!

My stbx will be visiting again on Wednesday. That will be 2 weeks in a row after 5 months of not seeing him. I hope his visits are genuine and will continue. Royce has actually asked about 'dad' twice now. Both times were really random out of nowhere 'where's dad?' he wasn't upset at all, I just said 'I don't know' and he quickly moved on to something else. Still really hurts to hear him say that though.

Royce loves to be pulled in a sled but doesn't ever want to go down a hill. I had bought one for him that was just the 'flying saucer' type but he keeps tipping off the back when I pull him. So today I went and got a baby sled that has an actual seat with a back. It says up to age 2 but he should fit for the rest of the winter.

As for naps - Royce has been pushing back his naps until 3 or 4 which means he stays up late. I think he is getting close to dropping the nap. I probably should wake him up after 30 minutes or so to keep him from being up til midnight. It's impossible to try and get him to skip it completely though, he definitely gets tired and cranky.


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: Happy birthday Royce!! Glad his party went well and glad that his dad is around more. I hope he keeps it up!

Mal: I just type in OPK or home pregnancy test on amazon. I don't even know the brand. I buy my OPKs on there too for the same price - 50 for $10. I ran out last month and had to buy some at target - they were $17 for like 5! Insane!

Starling: Good luck tomorrow!!!!! Let us know how it goes. Will you be taking time off of work afterwards?

I think I may have gotten a super faint line on my test this morning! Not sure. Only 10 dpo today so hopefully I'll know for sure in the next few days. Makenna and I are headed down to visit my family in San Diego tomorrow. I flew down there at 11 dpo when I was prego w/M and got my positive while I was at my mom's house. So maybe the same will happen again! Going to have a family party for M while we are there. She's excited about ice cream cake.

Sometimes M just is so hard to get to nap and I wonder if she is about to drop naps. But then she will go back to 2+ hour naps. So I don't think she's ready. Just too excited some days to slow down.


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## Everrgreen

Happy 2nd Birthday to Royce!!

His day is actually here and I am feeling a bit emotional about it lol! 2 years old. Wow. I am so in love with this child. He is more than I ever could have imagined. He completely inspires me to be the best Mama I could be. He is still sleeping at the moment but once he wakes up this day is going to be all about him!


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## mckittre

Happy Birthday Royce!

I can't believe our little ones are turning two already. But every time I think of Katmai turning two next month, all I can think of is "Oh no, now he'll be expensive when we travel, instead of free!"

Cindy and Starling: Crossing fingers for you both!

We have new snow here finally, so were able to take Katmai out in the sled for awhile (he doesn't like it when the sled is loud, so soft snow is nice).

He's been having some nursing jealousy of his little sister (I still nurse him, but am not willing to do it as much as a newborn nurses!). Not sure how best to solve that one. Otherwise, he's doing good as a big brother.


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... did you test again! Waiting to hear with my fingers crossed for you! C'mon BFP!

*Gillian* ... a very Happy Birthday to Royce! I cannot believe our littles are turning TWO!

*Mckittre* ... Glad to hear that your newly shaped family is settling in. Esmé would be fiercely jealous of a newborn nursing too. I hope Katmai and you find a happy solution!

*AFM*: We transferred one healthy embryo today. The other one didn't survive the thaw. Fingers crossed, I'll get a nice strong positive in a couple of weeks! And yes, Mckittre, I will take time off once more. This is it. No more embies left. I hope to do whatever it takes to feel like we did our best to give this last embryo a strong chance. Wish us sticky, healthy baby luck!


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## Mal85

Starling, sending all the sticky baby vibes I can muster your way!! I really hope this is it for you!

Cindy, can't wait to hear what you find out!!

I got some OPKs yesterday and took one just to see how it works. I am not ovulating, which I already knew. This weekend will be two weeks out from my last period. I'll probably try on then just to see, but I think it'll be another week or two before I ovulate, if I do this month. I go back to the doc at the end of this month and really want to feel like we've done absolutely everything we can on our own before thinking about any kind of medication.

And a very happy birthday to Royce!!! I can't believe the birthdays have begun! I hope he had an extra special day today.

Anyone here have a biter? We've been struggling with biting for months now. She's not teething, so we can't blame it on that anymore. She is so unpredictable with her biting, it's hard to control her. She has weeks when she's fine, she keeps herself in check. I can sometimes see when she thinks about biting someone (usually it's my daycare girl), and will stop herself. So, she has some control over it. But when she's in a mood, she bites at the drop of a hat. It becomes her first line of action. Today has been one of those days. She's bit my daycare girl three times today. And the last one left a pretty good mark and is already starting to bruise. Her parents have been very calm and cool about the biting and have never gotten upset about it. But, really, there are days she goes home with more than one bite mark and I'm watching Owyn like a hawk! When she bites, she gets removed from the situation while I comfort the other girl. I kind of go over the top with my comforting because I want Owyn to see that biting does not get my attention, in fact I lavish the one that she bit with my attention instead of her. After they both calm down, I show Owyn where she bit and tell her that it's Owie when she bites and L does not like that. She gives L a kiss and hug and they usually go on their merry way... until it happens again. Any other suggestions?? I'll try anything at this point.


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## justKate

Starling, I'm hopeful with you. Stick baby stick!

Erin, IKWYM about travel. We have a trip scheduled for the 3rd so that we can get one last visit in for free. We take the carseat anyway and end up with a seat for her about 50% of the time.

Gillian, HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Royce! Wow our babies are big. I'm glad to see your UAV stbx is manning up a little bit, but I can't help but question his motives. I hope that he means it. You're a strong mama.

Cindy, a line is a line, right?! Fingers crossed for a darker one tomorrow.

Mal, you are brave! I wish we had an indoor pool that didn't cost a lot to get in to. The outdoor pool in our neighborhood opens in April, but it doesn't have a kiddie pool, just a splash area. Of course Aubs runs straight for the big pool and screams when her head goes under. We'll have something to work on this summer I guess!

I got a call from her daycare. When I saw the number, I assumed she had a fever and needed to go home...unfortunately, she tripped and cut her eye open on a wooden chest. So we went to the doctor and they derma-glued it closed. The doctor said that should heal better than stitches. I hope so. Of course she screamed and fought, and won't let me clean the dried blood off of it, so it looks way worse than it is. I'll post a photo in a little while. It doesn't seem to be bothering her, but it is sort of upsetting to see.


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## Vegan Princess

Just a quickie as we are at my mom's house. I found out last night that my progesterone levels are super low. I started progesterone sups last night but i think it might be too late. My test was negative today. Not sure if yesterday was a faulty test or if i was prego and lost it bc of my progesterone. Who knows. Maybe I will still get a positive in a couple days but I sort of doubt it now. If not, I think I am going to do clomid next month - it is supposed to fix low progesterone levels after ovulation by making ovulation stronger. But for now I am just enjoying visiting my family and not thinking about it.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Starling - sending you lots and lots of sticky vibes!!

Mal - no biting here but it sounds like you are doing a lot of the right things. Is the biting an emotional outburst? If so you could try giving her an acceptable thing to do to express her emotions. I know it's hard at this age to help them control impulses. Intervening before it happens is probably your best bet at this point. Is there any pattern to it (ie toy being fought for, time of day, etc.?) Wish I could be more help for you, I'm sure you are getting frustrated!

Kate - Oh no! Poor Aubrey! Royce is constantly getting bumps, bruises, and scratches, but luckily nothing serious so far!

Cindy - Fingers crossed that the progesterone cream does the trick for this cycle!

Royce had a nice day today. I took him to a really awesome indoor play place. We would have stayed longer if I'd brought a snack, but as usual I forgot. So we left to go have lunch (fine dining at burger king ), then back home. I had wanted to take him out for a ride in the sled but it rained all day and the snow was all wet and gross. But that's ok, it was still a good day!

I have been sort of working on potty learning, just once a day he has some naked time and I try and encourage him to use the potty. He won't. Today I caught him about to go and asked if he needed to go potty, his response: 'no.. diaper?', so I again tried to encourage him that no he didn't need a diaper he could just sit on the potty, still he insisted he needed a diaper. I even layed a prefold over the potty so he could have the diaper feel while he sat there. But no. In the end I finally put a diaper on him and he immediately pooped. So annoying!


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## Nillarilla

Happy Birthday Royce!

Starling fingers crossed for you!

Cindy I hope you get that dark line.

McKittre I never nursed 2 so I wouldn't really know how to deal but I'm sure there are some tandem mama's out there with great advice.

Mal ds started biting when he was about 3.5. Dd bit him when she was about 9 months and he screamed and cried and she never did it again. He however decided it was a fabulous tactic and used it for several months. He even bit dh on the butt (very funny but extremely painful). He was older so he understood the implications and he only did it to adults when he was mad. I probably didn't deal with it in the proper way. He lost his privileges like movies and tv, museum trips and stuff like that and only earned them back after using different ways to deal with his anger and jealousy. If it was dd biting I would scoop the other child up and leave the room. When she came to find us I would tell it was not safe for ... to be playing near dd when she was angry and biting so we had to leave the room.


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## AKislandgirl

Hello everyone! Trying to catch up here. We are on vacation at my parents house now. Fiona is loving her cousins and the farm animals. Someday we'll have to get a farm! It really is something we hope for and it has been nice to get a small dose of farm life while visiting my family. The farm is really my sisters but they live next door to my parents so it all kind of blends together. They have 10 acres between them with chickens, goats, sheep and a llama. They also raise pigs and a cow every year. Fiona makes the rounds every day to say hi to the animals and feed them hay and apples. We're loving it! It's been really fun to see her interact with all of her cousins too. My youngest niece is 12 months and they are in love with each other. Lots of gooey kisses being passed back and forth!

Of course the big perk of vacation (at least when you live in a small Alaskan town) is to eat out! The first two days here I ate "real" bread. It was so good but I paid the price for straying from my gluten free diet. Fiona had a screaming red bottom and cried every time she peed because her rash hurt. I felt terrible! So its back to gluten free. The nice thing is that most of the resteraunts around here have great gluten free options.

*Happy Birthday to Royce!* 2!!! Amazing how fast it has gone isn't it? We will be doing a party with family next weekend before we head back to Alaska.

*Starling:* I'm sending you sticky vibes! I so hope this is it for you guys! I'll be thinking about you alot over the next 2 weeks.

*Cindy:* Sorry to hear about your low progesterone levels. That totally sucks.

*Kate:* OMG! I sure hope Aubrey heals quickly. I'm sure the trip to get that fixed up was awful. Yikes! I dread that day.

I got a positive ovulation stick the other day. I sure hope its not a false positive like last time. We'll do blood work the day after we get back home. I felt some slight cramping the next morning so I'm hopeful that the test is correct and I'm ovualting now. We are doing our best to be sure to catch that egg! 

I know I probably missed someone. I'll fully catch up when we are home next week!


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## Vegan Princess

Ugh...AF arrived, despite the progesterone. I still think I might have been prego and lost it bc of my levels. Oh well, guess I'll be starting clomid soon! Hopefully that will do the trick. Or at least taking progesterone every month right after ovulation. My dr said that once your test comes back low, it is late to start the progesterone at that point.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... That sucks! Remind me ... were you on Clomid when you conceived M?

*Kate*! Just saw the picture ... poor Aubs! I hope she's milking that owie for all the sympathy and cuddles it's worth!

*Sue* ... Good luck on catching that egg! The farm sounds like so much fun. I'm jealous!

AFM: Remember last time when I did the FET I got ragingly sick with diarrhea and vomitting? I've got it AGAIN! I'm wondering if I'm allergic to something in the FET process that's different from when I got pregnant with Esmé?

My dear friend who's little one is three days older than Esmé is pretty sure that she's pregnant. If I'm not, then I'm going to be an unofficial doula for her and get my newborn fix that way.


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## Vegan Princess

Awww poor Aubs!

Starling: That is interesting - perhaps worth asking your doc about? Hope it is just coincidence. And no, have never taken clomid before. I conceived M naturally. It just took a few months. Though I do suspect I may have had progesterone issues back then bc I often had short cycles. So maybe M was a miracle baby? Who knows.

Tonight is M's family birthday party. Should be fun. We are still visiting my mom. Today we went and played at a play cafe w/my friend from grade school and her little girl that is 3 weeks older. I have kept in touch w/my friend but hadn't met her little girl yet!

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

have loved catching up with you all.

starling sending sticky vibes your way.

Kate, poor Aubs, luckily they get over booboos fairly quickly. But it sure does look painful.

Happy Birthday Royce!!! Our first feb baby is 2! wow.

have fun at your moms Sue, I long for a farm too.

Cindy, sorry about the progesterone, hopefully the clomid will straighten it all up.

Mal, have you seen the teeth are not for biting book?

Erin- what about having special reading time with him while she nurses, or suggest cuddling.


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## AKislandgirl

We are home! It was a nice visit but maybe a couple days too long with the family! they are so loud and chaotic that Fiona began to have meltdowns and couldn't settle down to bed at night. She kept asking to go home. Aggh... a full day of flying but we made it and slept in our own bed last night. Hooray!

Today I go give blood so they can check my progesterone levels and confirm ovulation. I sure hope that test was correct. I haven't really emotionally attached to the idea that it could be. I'll wait till I get the results and then wait till I can POAS. I so want to avoid the IUI this time around. At any rate I'll know in a day weather pregnancy is an option and then I'll have a one week wait. Cross your fingers for me.

Starling how are you holding up with the wait? When do you plan to test? I'm sending you lots of good baby vibes!


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## starling&diesel

Glad to hear that you're home safe and sound .... what a trip!

As for me ... We're a week into the tww. No plans to test any time. Of course, I'm obsessing over every little twinge and potential symptom. I am starving all the time, I'm constipated, I'm gassy, I have heartburn, and I'm exhausted. However, after last time, I'm tempering the inventory with the understanding that all of that could be attributed to the progesterone. So. Am I hopeful? I'm not sure. Am I feeling like all is lost? No. I'm content. Oddly content. And I can tell you why I know that I am, in fact, content rather than pretending to be ... my best mama friend, who's son is two days older than Esmé, just found out that she's pregnant. And I'm thrilled! If I were anything but content with whatever outcome, I'd be jealous, or sad for our family. But I am so thrilled that she's pregnant! First, for the possibility that our babes would be close in age again, and secondly, that I'll have tonnes of newborn yummyness even if I'm not.

Esmé turns two next Monday, so we're gearing up for her birthday bash next Sunday. She's having a joint party with her best bud (mentioned above) who is also turning two. We're doing a big fundraiser for the Basics For Babies program at the Food Bank. Should be great! So far we're at about 50 people! Whoo hoo!


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## starling&diesel

Oh, and as for when I'll poas ... I don't know. Not sure if I want to know before E's party or after? I'm at 7 days past the transfer with 3 day embryos. I could probably test after day nine with pretty good accuracy. Dunno. This is the last time I'll ever be in the tww. Not sure if I'm in a hurry to know this time. Makes sense?


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## justKate

Hi everybody. I'm excited about all of the birthdays! Aubrey is having an early birthday party at Grandma's when we go for our visit next week. We wanted to fly before she turned two, but I'm always hoping that there will be an extra seat. Happy birthday to our babies! Weird to think that they're all so big. We were invited to the neighbor's 3rd birthday party at AustinsPark 'n Pizza this Saturday, so it will be good for Aubs to see what a birthday party is all about. Although I think it's sort of over the top for a 3 year old.

Not much going on with me. I just emailed Huz to say that we need to talk tonight. I've been sort of down about the whole lack of a budget, what's our family going to look like, can we do better type stuff, so I'm hoping we can have a talk and see if we can work on some of the family stuff. We've sort of been ignoring "us" lately, so I want to try to work on that.

Sue, let us know how the test goes. Do you get the results right away?

Starling, fingers crossed for you. It is good that you can be at peace with it either way.

Cindy, isn't it weird how our bodies can change so much? I hope the clomid route works for you.


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## Mal85

Glad you made it back safely Sue!

Starling, you amaze me with how content you are. My SIL and the family I baby sit for are both expecting, both got pregnant right at the time I would have loved to initially get pregnant... I'm happy for both of them and so glad I'll have two spring babies to snuggle, but I am a little envious of them both. I'm usually very into pregnancy and would normally talk their ears off about how things are going for them, but I honestly avoid the topic a lot of the time right now.

I'm still waiting for ovulation this month. Even though I know I ovulate late, I started taking OPKs 14 days after my last period. Still no positive test although I'm not expecting one until week 3 or 4, so we'll just keep going. I go back to the doctor on Monday next week, it's possible I'd be ovulating then. We'll see.

I caught a stomach bug yesterday so I was off. DH stayed home to take care of Owyn. I think she knew I wasn't feeling well because when I managed to get out of bed, she kept her distance without having to be told to leave Mommy along for a while. They went to my ILs around lunch time and stayed out of the house for a while so I could rest (and puke in privacy).

Owyn is fighting bedtime like crazy the last week or so. She becomes hysterical at the mere mention of going night-night. We were at the point where we could lay her down and leave the room... we'd leave her door open, which is open to the living, so she could see us and would just play quietly in her crib until she fell asleep. But not now!! I think she is working on her 2 year molars, so I'm hoping that's all it is. Biting is getting better for now. I gave her a pacifier, which she's never taken as a pacifier, but she chews on it. She puts it in the side of her mouth, so she's actually gumming it with her back gums (another reason I think it may be her molars bothering her). It seems to be helping, she hasn't bit anyone in several days.


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## mckittre

Sue - good luck!

Starling - good luck as well! You sound so zen about the whole thing - it's great.

The nursing jealousy has mostly faded, for now. Katmai has two times each day where he gets his own longer nursing session. All the other times, I either let him nurse with his sister for a few seconds, or remind him that she's too little to eat food or play with toys or read books and distract him that way. Actually, he's been super good about playing on his own lately, and we've been taking advantage of it to ignore him more. Is that terrible? I figure if he's happy, all is good.


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## Mal85

Erin, we do the same thing with Owyn. I always feel so bad, but it's rare that she will happily entertain herself, so when she does, I don't dare mess with a good thing!


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## starling&diesel

Mckittre ... I actively 'ignore' Esmé when she's playing well by herself, and I encourage her to do so if she's not. I'm an avid reader, and books are cheaper and better for me than antidepressants, so it's important that Esmé understands that when I'm reading, it's her time to read or entertain herself some other way.

Mal ... I hear you, Mama. Last month I was far from content. There's something about not having a choice in the matter that lead to the contentment. If I was somewhat fertile, I would not be content. But I am thoroughly infertile, so these miracle gift embryos were our chance. And Esmé is more than I could have ever hoped for! But last month, when it was not our final try, I was not content about it at all. If that same friend had gotten pregnant then, I would've been thoroughly UAV about it. So I get it. Hang in there, there is another baby coming for you!

justKate ... Good luck with your Big Talk tonight! DP and I talk about money WAY too much, but at least it's all on the table. She gets exhausted by it, but my dad managed to bankrupt us early on, and so we grew up dirt poor and I want to avoid that at all costs. It's a 'thing' of mine. Call it an 'issue' if you'd like. Anyway. Money is a huge trigger for most everyone ... make sure you're not HALT when you sit down (Hungry Angry Lonely Tired) ... it helps a lot to be well-rested and well-fed and feeling alright. Keep us posted!


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## AKislandgirl

I love the HALT advice! Good luck with your talk tonight Kate. We recently bought a Dave Ramsey book which has us both motivated and on the same page budget wise now.

Starling I'm so glad that you are content and at peace. Mal, I know exactly how you feel. I was in a terrible place emotionally while TTC Fiona. I was so frustrated with my body and it seemed like everyone around me was getting pregnant. I cried a lot and never felt like DH really understood the pain I was in. This time around I'm in a much better place. I guess I have more hope now that we have been through the various procedures before with success. It doesn't mean I don't ever feel frustrated about it but its not so painful. And last time sex became this awful timed chore and DH and I were NOT connecting. Things are much better in that department now. Of course we have to be mindful of good timing but its more fun now!  Anyway, I hope that you find some peace and know that there are a lot of things you can do these days to get pregnant. I'm sure there is a baby in your future!

Oh and as for my test today... totally annoyed to find out that it will take several days to get results. They have to send my lab to Seattle. Good grief, I could probably POAS before I even get the results of the progesterone test. I'm 7 days past O today. If they give me my results by Friday I'll be at 10 days past O. My period is due on Fiona's birthday, Feb 1st.

Here is a picture of Fiona at her Birthday party. We celebrated with my family during our vacation. She was pretty excited! Her young cousins kept saying that we had to be sure that everything at dinner and her cake were gluten free "because its Fiona's birthday and we can't have anything she can't have." Cute! My mom frosted the cake. I was trying to just let it go but it was killing me that it wasn't frosted evenly! I'm a little AR about such things.


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## starling&diesel

Sue ... Frustrating about your test!

Love the pic! What recipe did you use for the cake? I'm gluten free (Celiac) but E isn't, so not sure if I'm going to bother with a gf cake for her bash or not.


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## Vegan Princess

Hi ladies,

So nice to have some activity on here again. 

Sue: Welcome home. How frustrating about the wait!! I hope you O'd and that this is your month! I have a question for you. I am on day 7 of my cycle and have 1 pill of clomid left to take tonight. I could already feel pains in my right ovary this morning (gone now). Is it normal to feel stuff going on this early? Im taking 50 mg. BTW, loved the birthday pic!

Starling: I am so happy to hear how at peace you are. Though I am still hoping and praying that you are indeed pregnant!! I don't know what to say about when to test. I suppose you could just not test and see if AF arrives. That's what my mom always tells me to do. I never listen though.

Erin: Sounds like you have the tandem going well. Yay!

Mal: Hope you are feeling better. The stomach flu is the worst!!

Kate: Hope the talk goes well. Good that you are thinking about the "us"...it's easy to just let that fall on the back burner.

As for us: Our loan got approved yesterday and escrow closes next Friday!!! I feel so busy with everything going on. Not looking forward to packing and moving but excited to be in our own home! Makenna's birthday is Saturday. Since we had a family party in san diego, we will just be going to the zoo and making a fun special day for the 3 of us. M want chocolate cupcakes w/pink frosting.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Starling... betty crocker gluten free cake mix! I'm not usually a cake mix type of gal but didn't have all the various flours and such so we tried it rather then buy all the various flours. It turned out great! It sticks like crazy though so really grease the pan or do cupcakes. Really moist and nobody noticed a difference. I'll use it again since the cupcakes I made for DH's birthday a while back turned out only so-so. We all know its all about the frosting anyway! 

Cindy: I've always taken my clomid on days 5-9 rather then the 3-7. But yes, I've gotten all sorts of side effects before finishing the meds. This month I had some pretty strong cramping from my right ovary but not until day 19 (the morning after my positive stick). Even with clomid I ovulate later in my cycle then "normal". I also get some intense hot flashes and really sore nipples mid cycle. Really makes nursing uncomfortable but obviously wasn't an issue when taking it to conceive Fiona. Oh yeah, and I'm more emotional. Fun stuff this clomid! I promise you its worth it though! I'm so very grateful that such medication exists! I hope this dose works for you!!!

Mal: hope you are feeling better!


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## AKislandgirl

OK Mamas, now I can begin to obsess! The lab tech was wrong on the timing of the test. I got a call from the clinic today that I did in fact ovulate!  Woo Hoo! Now I have to wait it out and see if I'm pregnant. I will tell you that I'm totally exhausted today and don't feel very good. I was trying to tell myself that I'm still recovering from flying or that I picked something up from flying but who knows.... Let the obsessing over every little twinge begin!


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## Everrgreen

AK - YAY!!! That's so exciting!! Fingers crossed that you caught that egg!

Cindy - That's great that you will be in your new home soon! I know moving is stressful but you must also be relieved after your long search. Good luck with the move! And your special day with M sounds great, I wish the snow would go away here so we could go to the zoo 

mckittre - Definitely ok to let him play alone! When Royce is playing alone I'm don't even want to make a sound in case I distract him. And like Starling, I *need* my time and often encourage him to go play. Sometimes mommy needs a time out!

Starling - I'm glad you are at peace with whatever happens. You are in my thoughts though and I hope your little embryo sticks!

Mal - I understand the jealousy. I had a very hard time when ttc Royce, which was especially hard because I had the fear of 'what if I *never* get to have a child'. And now, I am having a hard time with it too. I would have loved to have more children. And I know I might still someday, but knowing I have to first meet a new partner and all that 'stuff' means another baby could be many years away. And most people I know who have babies Royce's age (ex. all of you! and other mom friends on fb) are now pregnant or having baby #2 and it's hard not to think that that could have been me if life had turned out differently. Blah... Anyway, that's my whine!

justKate - I'm sorry you are having a hard time with your dh. It must be stressful having a big move coming up with so much uncertainty around it. I hope you are able to have a good talk and reconnect *hugs*

Not much new here. Royce is learning new words everyday. A lot of them are still things I would need to clarify for a stranger, but it's great to have more communication with him. He has been frustrating me a lot lately. Actually that's not fair to say, he's just being a normal 2 year old. It's *me* that has the problem, I'm not coping well with the needs of my normal 2 year old. I'm just feeling exhausted I guess and lacking skills. He peed on the bed yesterday and I was so mad, I yelled at him, and then locked myself in the bedroom to calm down and change the sheets. Meanwhile he cried in the hallway. It was horrible


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## Everrgreen

Ok, last night while I was typing the above message Royce was beside me in the bed - wearing a diaper - and watching a show. Well as I wasted some more time on mdc he got bored and started climbing on me, at which point I looked down and his diaper had totally leaked and soaked the bed and apparently he had moved onto the pillow and soaked it as well. Total karma for me yelling at him I'm sure lol!


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## mckittre

Fun to see all the birthdays coming along

Sue - hope this is it for you!

Starling - thinking sticky baby thoughts

Kate - It's so hard to remember to take time to think and talk through those big things when everything's all busy. I find it easy to let stuff slide too long sometimes. I hope the talk went well.

Katmai's such an easy guy most of the time, but I think it's impossible not to be frustrated by a 2 year old sometimes. He's been the worst at bedtime lately, having repeated meltdowns about wanting a specific toy, or a cup of milk, or to climb on the big bed, etc... I hate having to lie quietly pretending to be asleep for an hour sometimes while he whines and screams. Especially if he sets off his little sister (not often - she's super mellow). Oh well. All phases will pass.

On the other side, it's been really fun seeing him get into pretend play more and more - telling us that the cat brush and knife sharpener are airplanes, the comb is a refrigerator... and making up more and more stories about what's happening with his toys and in his books.


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## Nillarilla

The birthdays of all our littles are so exciting. I want to share a fabulous icing recipe with everyone. It can be vegan or contain dairy and it's gluten free with no sugar but still tastes fabulous.

The chocolate version

2 cups palm shortening or /lard/softened coconut oil/butter/earth balance margarine (I used the soy free version)

3/4C cocoa powder

1/4C arrowroot powder

2 T Vanilla

1C agave nectar

Throw all the ingredients in a bowl and beat until fluffy

Vanilla version

2C fat (whatever your choice is from the above)

1C arrowroot powder

2T Vanilla

1C agave nectar

1T beet juice (if you want to make it pink)

Agave is my new sweetener of choice since it's glycemic index is 30 compared to 95 of white sugar. I'm going to make D this GF cake. Then frost it with pink frosting.

Ds wants a spiderman cake with a spiderman "standing up" meaning the bust of a spiderman. So I must go to michaels with my coupon to get the mold. I'm going to make it out of rice crispy squares and cover it with fondant and paint the stripes on. Then a cake platform.

Fingers crossed for all those ttc. I'm so wishy washy about it all. I want a third and then I don't. Sometimes I'm so overwhelmed with 2. But then there were times I was overwhelmed with just M so... Still waiting to hear if I got into school.

Oh the tantrums and meltdowns have started. D had a screaming fit in the library the other day and I had to football carry her out. Then the thing beeped saying I needed to go back to the checkout. I took the book out that I thought was the culprit and set it down and walked out again and alas we beeped again. The nice librarian waved me through but now there's a book that I left behind that won't be checked in. Ugh! They have self checkout which started our problems since we had to get our movies there and then the lineup behind us started to stack up so I took what was left to the till. D took off too look at the movies again and then I had to get her again to go and that's when the screaming ensued. Of course ds wasn't listening well either. GAH!


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## justKate

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Nillarilla*
> 
> Fingers crossed for all those ttc. I'm so wishy washy about it all. I want a third and then I don't. Sometimes I'm so overwhelmed with 2. But then there were times I was overwhelmed with just M so... Still waiting to hear if I got into school.


I'm with you. One part of me REALLY wants a second, and doesn't want babies that are 3+ years apart, but the other side of me really likes our lifestyle and the idea of not working or working only PT. I'm trying not to be emotional about it, because I've got plenty of time. It's hard. I'm emotional about everything!

Had a big "talk" with DH the other day. I needed to get out a bunch of raw selfish stuff, and I think i managed it. Basically, I get pissy because he spends a lot of money on his hobbies, and I want to stay home and have babies and still maintain the, ah, lifestyle that we've had for the last couple of years. Even though I have $1500.00 in student loans going out each month.







And it really isn't financially possible. Still no word on where we'll be moving. Hopefully we'll know soon--that might help me get a plan. At least I put it out there though, selfish as it is.

Not sure if I mentioned this before, but my best friend is pg with twins (naturally!). She's due at the end of June, and is moving to Germany for a year. I'm really sad that she'll be gone, but of course super excited for her now that I've gotten over the shock of twins. Seems like forever ago that we were speculating as to whether any of us would end up with twins!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gillian28*
> 
> Ok, last night while I was typing the above message Royce was beside me in the bed - wearing a diaper - and watching a show. Well as I wasted some more time on mdc he got bored and started climbing on me, at which point I looked down and his diaper had totally leaked and soaked the bed and apparently he had moved onto the pillow and soaked it as well. Total karma for me yelling at him I'm sure lol!


Ugh, yeah I know what you mean. I get overly-frustrated when Aubs won't stop smacking the keyboard. She can't stand for me to do anything on the couch except sit with her, especially look at a computer. Please stop. Stop. Stop. STOP. STOP! AUBREY STOP! I always end up putting the computer away and moving. I don't know why I bother to try. Then I feel bad for yelling at her when I know she won't stop.

Hooray for the weekend! Hopefully you are all busy BDing and getting BFPs! (Only those who want them, of course!)


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: Ugh. I would be annoyed about the pee too. I think no one is perfect and I bet we all lose our tempers and we wish didn't. It's part of being human. Though i do have an image in my mind of Starling never doing that. 

Makenna got the barfing flu! She was soooo crabby and clingy all day yesterday. I had thought bc she woke up 2 hours earlier but even after a 2 hour nap she was still awful. I was so frustrated by the end of the day that I upset my DH by saying he was sitting there doing nothing to help. I'm pretty sure he was doing nothing, partially bc M only wanted me. But I sucked it up an apologized bc he was so upset. Upset me to apologize when I was wanting help. Anyway, M puked at midnight and again at 2. Once all over her crib and once all over our bed. So I guess that is why she was a pill yesterday. She has bad diarrhea today but hasn't puked again yet. And she is in a much better mood. Hopefully she will be all well for her birthday tomorrow!

Sue: Great news! Any other symptoms to obsess over? ARe you going to test or just wait for AF?

Nilla: Thanks for the recipe! Yum! Sorry about the library incident.

Cindy


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## Mal85

I do have to say, the idea of having a second sometimes overwhelms me. But I've had so many kids in and out of this house the last couple of years, I know I can handle it. One tough lesson to learn, taking care of infants and toddlers, is that sometimes the baby just has to cry. I used to get so stressed when I had just babies, anytime someone would cry I'd feel like I needed to do something about it immediately or else I was failing in some way. But I've had to realize that if the baby is fed, not tired, and has a clean diaper then it can wait while I tend to someone that needs me at the moment. It's stressful hearing the baby cry, but I know that he/she is okay and I will get to the cuddles as soon as I can.

I've only taken all the kids out together a handful of times and usually it's just to the park or something like that, so that part does stress me out a little. Being outnumbered when they're both feeling defiant. It's all a learning process!

Cindy: So sorry about the puking, hope Makenna is feeling better for her birthday!

Gillian: I know how you feel. I have my moments at times too when I know I overreact or react in an inappropriate way. Owyn's biting has really pushed me to the edge a few times. I feel really guilty about it when it happens, but I just make myself the promise to do better next time. We can't always keep our emotions in check, sometimes the knee-jerk response comes out and it can't be helped. Don't beat yourself about it. Our kiddos learn from everything we do, and one lesson to learn is that we all have our imperfect moments, even Mommies!


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## AKislandgirl

Hope McKenna is feeling better!

I have to say that I have had my share of less then stellar parenting moments lately. Fiona is in a really difficult stage right now. Lots of screaming, hitting, and general grumpiness. I don't know what to do about it besides take lots of deep breathes. When I can't take it anymore I let her watch TV which is an awful way to deal with it. But there is only so much screaming I can handle. We try to get out of the house for one activity each day which helps some. I think we'll take her on a long hike this weekend rain or shine because outdoor time in the woods or at the beach calms her so much.

Not really sure when I'll test. I'm afraid of getting a negative. No real symptoms besides feeling tired. But see above for that explanation. I was thinking I might test on Sunday though. That is 12 days past O and should be pretty accurate. AF is due on Fiona's birthday. Now that I've let myself get excited about it I know that I'll be really disappointed with a negative. I almost tested this AM but talked myself out of it. Good grief this waiting business is hard.


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... Oh heck, I sure do lose it sometimes! Not often, but when I do, man. Both E and I have really bad colds and she and I didn't sleep well for three nights and she didn't nap for two days for all the snot and coughing and aches and ooginess. I've said before how badly I need quiet time ... well that day, she was on me like glue, being sick and feeling poorly, wee rabbit. At bedtime, I was at the end of my rope needing her to get some rest because she was SO OWLY for not having had a nap. She tossed and turned and whined for nearly an HOUR ... she was definitely overtired, and wired because my mom was also visiting and she goes nuts for my mom. Anyway ... after nursing and stories and snuggles and more stories (told quietly in the dark) and saying goodnight to e.v.e.r.y.o.n.e in her life (Goodnight Busdriver, Goodlnight life guard, goodnight friend at the store) I was so frazzled and desperate for sleep myself that I said ... wait for it ... "If you don't go to sleep right this minute, I'll smack you!" She blinked and asked for another story, because I don't think she even knows what the word means. What I want to know is how did I channel my mother so quickly, because she's the only one I've ever heard say that to me, and that would've been about thirty-three years ago! And why would I say something like that when I've never hit Esmé and don't plan to ever hit her? What a ridiculous thing to say! Anyway, we all have our dark moments.

*Gillian* ... Like I said above, we all have our dark moments. Thank goodness we have far more light ones! I have a really hard time when Esmé pees in the house. I try not to let my frustration show, but I just can't stand it. She's so ready for the potty, but is keeping the process in her pocket and is only going to do it on her own terms in her own time.

*Nilla* ... when will you find out about school?

*JustKate* ... I'm glad you got all that off your chest with your DH. It will be so much easier to visualize and plan for your future when you know where you're moving too. Remind us, what are the possibilities? And what's DH's hobby that's eating up your funds?

*Mckittre* ... Sounds like your family is finding a new rhythm. That's wonderful! I often wonder about you up there in your yurt, with sound and noise in particular. Esmé is so sensitive to sound and noise, I'm not sure it would be very easy to parent a newborn along with her in smaller quarters.

*Sue* ... How are you feeling? When could you poas?

*AFM*: I don't feel pregnant at all. The only thing is that everything is repeating on me and I'm super gassy and constipated. So while I don't feel pregnant, I still won't be surprised either way, because those are three early symptoms that I had with E. Still not planning to poas. Think we'll save the twenty bucks and let the RE nurse tell us the results after the bloodtest. If I cave before then, I'll let you know. Blood test is Feb 2.

We're gearing up for Esmé's party. It's going to be huge! We're having a joint party for her and her best bud, and I worry we're going to have to turn people away because of fire regulations. We'll see!


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## AKislandgirl

A little story to share.... after writing about how I'm not going to test for days and all that I suddenly felt like I just had to do it and screw waiting to POAS. So I did it. Looked at it right away and saw only the test line. I was feeling totally frustrated with myself for testing and tossed it into the trash. A few moments later I thought "I should read the directions again for how long to wait for the test". It said 5 minutes. I fished my test out of the trash and there faint but clear was a line! I'm not really sure what to think at this point. I will be testing in the morning for sure though! Cross your fingers Mamas! Gah! I'm freaking out!!!


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## justKate

Sue, now we're all anxiously awaiting a report tomorrow morning!









Starling, I think it's kind of funny that E didn't get it about being smacked. Aubs would do the same thing. The other day I was holding a baby doll, patting its bottom. She turned Elmo over on her knee and started patting him (hard) on the butt. I thought to myself that if anyone saw her, they'd think she was spanking Elmo rather than imitating mama patting the baby. No amount of explaining that she should be gentle with Elmo could convince her that smacking him on the bottom wasn't nice. Then the other day Aubs bit my nose when I was putting her into the carseat. I reflexively pushed her face away from mine, and she seemed so shocked--i felt horrible, because it was harder than I intended. My bad mommy moment!


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## starling&diesel

Sue! SO EXCITING!!!! I can't wait to hear about the next even darker line! Whoo hoo!


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## Everrgreen

Sue!! Yay!!! I am so so excited for you!!!! I am anxiously awaiting your test results this morning  I guess it's still pretty early out in AK but I'll check back later!!

Thanks everyone for sharing your own bad mommy moment stories! I amconstantly trying to handle my frustration better. Although I'm sure it's only a matter of time before I lose it again :/ Another thing I find frustrating is the constant 'mommy mommy mommy mommy mommy.....' And I am responding to him so it's not like he's trying to get my attention, but he just constantly has something to tell me about. And sometimes I don't even know what it is he is saying after the 'mommy' part. And then my head will start to buzz from all the constant noise. Oh toddlers!

I do have to brag a bit because I was very impressed with Royce yesterday. He had a can of raisins and was just playing around then he wandered downstairs. I was still upstairs busy with something else. Well, he came back upstairs with a cup full of water. He was so proud of himself. I looked at the cup and it was one I use for his crayons and I found the crayons in the can of raisins. So he had moved the crayons out of the cup, carried it downstairs, filled it up with water (not at the tap, at our water cooler), then carried the cup full of water back up the stairs. And he didn't spill a single drop! Of course I had to go dump the water because it had little crayon specks in it, but he didn't care he was just proud of the task completed lol!


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## AKislandgirl

Well I tested again this morning. Nothing showed up for a few minutes and then only a very faint. I don't know what to think. Evaporation lines? Cheap tests? I think I'll wait till Monday and test with a better brand. Grrr.... This is so frustrating. Can't I just know already!

Gillian, loved the story about Royce! That is really impressive.  I love how he was problem solving. I can tell you that Fiona would have had that cup of water spilled all over the stairs!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Did it show up in the time limit? If so, I say positive! When I had my chemical a couple months ago the lines were taking the full time to come up bc the hcg in my system was low. If it is early for you (and it is!) you probably have very small amounts. Yay!!!!!! I hope you get a nice dark line on Monday. So cool! That didn't take long on clomid...2 months? I hope I'm so lucky!

Poor Makenna. She was good all day yesterday so I let her have her beloved milk again this morning. And she puked agian. On her birthday. But after a nap she is eating tons and in good spirits. So hopefully it was just the milk on a not 100% well tummy.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Sue - Well, imo, 2 faint lines = PREGNANT! Can you post pictures?? I always loved analyzing tests back when I was on the ttc forum. We can give you our opinions 

I took Royce to the early years centre at the mall today (it's a government funded play centre). After we had been there for a while I noticed a middle-aged man walk in and he just stood there inside the door watching all the kids. He didn't seem to be there with anyone and nobody really acknowledged him. The eyc worker said hi to him but that was it. I got a really creepy vibe from him, he just stood there staring. And I noticed another mom was looking at him too and then she looked at me kind of like 'who the hell is that guy?'. I finally picked up Royce and left because I was getting really uncomfortable. Other than me and the one other mom no one else seemed to care, including the eyc worker. Maybe I was paranoid.


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## mckittre

Sue - crossing my fingers for you! I don't know much about how pregnancy tests work, but it seems hopeful.

Starling - you too!

Gillian - that problem solving is impressive! Katmai occasionally does things like that, but more often yells at the objects and toys in frustration because they aren't doing what he wants them to.

My own impatient mommy moment came yesterday when he was throwing a huge screaming fit about wanting to put on his slippers by himself - over his thick socks. He didn't want help, couldn't be convinced to take the socks off first, and couldn't be distracted. I told him that "mommy doesn't like you when you scream", and ignored him entirely. Maybe not a terrible way to handle it, but it felt mean.

In my house, it's not the newborn disturbing Katmai - it's the other way around! He spends much more time being loud, particularly when he wants something, or doesn't want to sleep - she's a mellow baby.

I love how Katmai is starting to make up more and more stories about things as he tries to figure out how the world works. He was looking at a picture of bear tracks in a book this morning, and telling me all about how the bears put on warm clothes, and a necklace called a leash, and went outside from their house to walk in those tracks in the snow.


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## starling&diesel

*Gillian* ... awesome story about Royce!

*Cindy* ... It's Makenna's birthday today? HAPPY BIRTHDAY! So strange to think what we were doing this time two years ago!

*Mckittre* ... I love their budding imaginations too. Esmé is all about stories right now. She tells them to everyone and everything, like my boobs, for example. She's not allowed to nurse in the bath anymore, so instead, she 'cuddles' my boobs and tells them a story. Or little babies at play group ... "Hi Baby, wanna hear a story? Yeah? Okay. Once upon a time was a little girl called Esmé and she go outside and climb up the moon. Birds flying up high. Yesterday, bears inside for eating the porridge but that bed was TOO soft. Next bed TOO hard. The third bed is JUST RIGHT so Esmé go night night and then the bear mama and bear baba and baby bear all come and go night night too. The End. Good story, Baby? Yeah? Mmm hmmm." That one is her mashing and retelling of an Oliver Jeffers story about a boy who climbs up to the moon and the classic three little bears. Funny!

*Sue* ... a line is a line is a line is a line. Post a pic? I love tilting the screen and changing the tone to see it, even if it's faint.

*AFM*: Pretty sure that I'm not pregnant. I feel completely normal. I don't think I'm going to pee on a stick at all. Might just let the nurse tell us, and be prepared for the no. Or maybe not. I don't know. We're so sure that I'm not pregnant that we'll be surprised if I am!


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## AKislandgirl

Ok here goes. Top one from yesterday, bottom today. Only about 16 hours between the two tests. I think I'm freaked out because I expected it to be darker this morning and it wasn't. Also, didn't come up for about 6 minutes (5 minutes is what the box said to wait). I'm just praying its because its early. It would be weird to get evaporation lines two days in a row right? (please say yes!) Today is 11 days past O. I'm going to use a better test either Monday (or tomorrow if I can't stand the wait). What do you ladies think? I'll be coming back to obsess over your answers!

Starling... you won't know until the test. Don't give up yet! I understand about guarding your feelings though. Better to be surprised then disappointed.


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## starling&diesel

SUE! I didn't even have to tilt the screen or anything! THOSE ARE TOTALLY LINES!


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## AKislandgirl

Your reply is making me cry! I guess with all that we have been through the guard is always up. Still planning to retest but I'm letting this sink in.


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## justKate

THOSE ARE DEFINITELY LINES. Deep breaths and test again when you can....


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## Everrgreen

OMG Sue!!! Those aren't faint! Those are definite BFPs!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!


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## Vegan Princess

Those are NOT faint!!! Those are great, dark lines for not expectin AF for a couple more days. It takes 2 days for HCG to double. And in the beginning it goes from minute to tiny amounts. I wouldn't expect a big change in 12 hours. You are SO pregnant!!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! I got no line at 11 dpo w/Makenna and a SUPER faint, took 10 minutes to come up line with my chemical at 11 days. From all the reading I've done, lines aren't often as dark as the control until days after AF is due. Try and relax and be happy!

Starling: I hope you are wrong. I never had symptoms with Makenna until weeks after I found out (other than bleeding gums). Still keeping the faith for you!

Gillian: I would be creeped out too! I wonder why that man was there. Eww. Your intuition is usually right.

I am so sad ladies. My midwife just delivered her grandson stillborn this morning. They found out before she went into labor that he had passed. I can't imagine! Please say a prayer for their family.

Sorry for the lack of good personals lately. I know I have been skipping so many of you! Just been overwhelmed by M's clinginess the past few days.

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

Sue I am doing the happy dance for you!























Cindy so sorry for your midwife's loss. Happy Birthday to M!

Starling I hope you get a fabulous surprise! I'm hoping to find out about school in the next week or so.

Imagination: D's big thing these days is "I'm coooking YOU a MEAL!" "Come now!" Then she stirs and pours and shakes the pans and puts something on a plate and says "eat something mama"

Oh I have my share of bad parenting moments ugh! Parenting from 3-5 has been very difficult. I try to tell myself that the same obstinance that makes it so he will not listen to me and argues with everything I say will make him tenacious in life and stick to his guns.

The other day I had to take D out to the car and she was screaming and back arching so I held her there probably harder than I should have and strapped her in forcefully and then dragged my son out to the car my arms under his and strapped him in forcefully as well. I always try to plan so we have enough time for at least one tantrum before leaving but this was somewhat of an emergency and we HAD to go. I hate physically restraining my children.

So I found out the my sitter/cousin is pg. This is a surprise to everyone. She's due in September so it shouldn't effect me for babysitting unless I don't get into school. She was planning on getting married in August so that's been bumped to June. I'm making the cake but this is the first time I've ever done something on such a grand scale so I'm going to practice.

I want to make this fraggle cake for D but on a smaller scale like just one side of it.

This is similar to what she wants for a wedding cake with 3 tiers instead of 4.


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## starling&diesel

Oh, *Cindy* ... I cannot begin to imagine what your midwife and her family are going through. What a sad, sad tragedy. A true and lasting blow to the hearts of all involved. So sad. So very sad.


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## AKislandgirl

Oh Cindy, that is so terribly sad. I hope they find some peace and healing soon.

And Happy Birthday to McKenna!!!







Is she feeling any better?

Thank you all so much for your support Mamas! I'm starting to let myself get excited!!! I still haven't used the words "I'm pregnant" yet. I don't want to jinx it. We are just in shock that things happened so quickly for us compared to TTC Fiona (1.5 years on our own and over a year with medical help). DH is even more guarded about it then me. I'm dying to call my sister but I want to wait a few days before telling family. We probably won't tell anyone else for several more weeks. OMG you guys! This is so exciting!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: So glad you are getting excited!!! I'm excited for you!! I even told my DH.  Will you be testing again or just content with the line and AF not showing up?

Nilla: I hope you get into school! I wish I had cake decorating skills. I'd be stressed making a wedding cake!

So thankfully Makenna was fine the rest of the day. Once she slept for an hour after throwing up this morning, her demeanor was improved. She had an apetite so we made pancakes...and she got m&ms in hers. We had bought some m&ms for her to get to eat today since she loves them soooo much. We braved going out to go to the nearby Litte Farm and saw the farm animals. She wanted to ride the carousel at the park but it turned out to be closed for the month of January. So we peeked at all the animals on the carousel and she was pretty bummed about not riding. Though I am sure she would have been scared on it (she was last time). Then we went and picked up cupcakes (what she has been wanting for weeks). She got 2 baby sized ones. It's funny bc she wanted then so bad then licked each one a few times and told me to put them away. We also managed to go out to dinner so a burmese restaurant we love. It is so not kid friendly. They don't have high chairs and it's all hipster inside. But it's a loud place and they have some booth seating and they make noodles Makenna likes. So it worked. Not a horrible day after all. But we still owe her a trip to the zoo like we planned and a ride on the carousel at the zoo. Too bad it's going to rain tomorrow.

I am hoping to ovulate in the next couple days. I told DH I need to pack the pregnancy tests up and not get to them until after we move in 2 weeeks! Unlikely to happen though. LOL.

CIndy


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## Thursday Girl

congrats sue, that is a line!!

happy birthday Mckenna!!

I don't have much time before I head up into the mountains with my sisters (yes mountains, I am on a vacation in Denver without kids!) DH finally realized I was staring to loose it taking care of the 3 kids by myself. I told him I didn't actually want to go away yet b/c of nursing but he bought me plane tickets for christmas so here I am. My boobs are SORE and hard and starting to get red bits on them indicative of mastitis, I have called a dr friend of mine from florida and left a message asking if she could write a prescription that gets filled in colorado. Haven't heard back yet, at the same time though I can feel that the level of milk being produced is leveling off. I am horrified of how terrible a four hour flight will be with painful engorged breasts and I have no idea how long it will take for them to fully adjust. I know Juniper is fine at home, she is fine without nursing if I am not around. I know DH is hoping she won't pick it back up when I get back. I am okay if she doesn't pick i t back up, I guess I hope if my boobs aren't sore and she doesn't want to nurse I will be totally okay with it. I have been pregnant or nursing for 8 years and 8 months at this point and I am ready to have my body back. IF my boobs still hurt I hope she wants to nurse.

anyways I should get dressed in plenty of warm clothes for my mountain adventure (SNOW!!) sorry I didn't respond to everyone


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## AKislandgirl

I tested again this morning on a first response pregnancy test. That nice line popped up in less then a minute. I'm going to relax now and revel in the fact that I'M PREGNANT!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for all of your support Mama's.

I'm so hoping you will join me Cindy and Starling! Cindy, I wanted to mention that I took mucinex (well generic version) in the days surrounding Ovulation to help thin cervical secretions since clomid can thicken them. It worked! No IUI for us this time!

Thursday... have a great trip! i hope your boobs feel better!!


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## Everrgreen

HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAKENNA!!! I'm glad she was able to recover enough for you all to have a fun day 

I am very sorry to hear about your midwife and her families loss. I can't even imagine.

AK - Yay! Now you can yell it from the rooftop - YOU ARE PREGNANT!

Also, just fyi you can get cheap tests at dollar stores, I think it's Dollar Tree in the states that has them and probably others too. And online you can find them cheap, when I was ttc I ordered them online in bulk lol!

Nilla - that's great that you'll find out about school soon! Is it a nursing program you are taking? I can't remember. I'm jealous that you find out so soon - I won't know if got into my program until the end of March. I'm so eager to know so I can make plans!

Starling - Well I will keep sending you sticky vibes and hoping that you do get a big surprise!


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## Everrgreen

Thursday - oops I didn't even see your post until after I replied! Wow a weekend kid free! Sounds pretty awesome  Although I hope your boobs stop hurting. Have you tried expressing some of the milk? I'm going to have to bring my little hand pump with me when I go to the bahamas I think, just in case!


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## mckittre

Courtney - Have fun on the vacation! hope the boobs settle down soon.

Happy birthday Makenna!

AK - Congratulations!!! I'll be thinking sticky baby thoughts for you.

On another note, how on earth do I convince Katmai to sleep enough? He'll only sleep 10 hours or so at night, and I cannot get him to take naps unless I put him on my back and walk for at least an hour or two - not so feasible with a newborn and other stuff to get done.


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## Vegan Princess

Sue yay!!!!! SOOOO happy this worked so easily for you. Re: mucinex. I might go get some today. I'd thought about it. But I am only on 50 mg and so far I still have normal cm (that I can tell). I am also using preseed. I still have probably 2 days until ovulation though- so probably enough time for mucinex to maybe help some.

Thursday girl: I hope you can hand express or use a cheap hand pump from a drug store to help you get some relief. I hope you are having an amazing time! Such a well deserved break to have some alone time with your sister!! I can't imagine not having my body back to myself for almost 9 years! I didn't think I wanted to stop nursing between kids but since I have, it has been nice to have my body be all mine again.

makenna is sleeping in her bed less and less these days. After letting her sleep in bed the entrie time at my mom's she protests so much now that we give in and let her into our bed. Now it is almost all night ad a lot of naps. And our queen bed is feeling way too small for comfort! I know we ought to suck it up and get a king if we are going to have a 2nd since we plan to cosleep for longer with that one. But darn - matresses are so expensive!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

OMG!! Ladies I think I have been accepted to my university program!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just went online to check the status of it and it said 'Congratulations on your offer of admission' But then it said for further details to click the link but the server is down for the link and it won't work. Ahhh! So I think I'm in but I can't read the details. I didn't think I would find out until March and I am so so so excited! Yay!!!!!!!!


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## Thursday Girl

Gillian, that is so awesome and exciting, congratulations!!!!

Cindy I totally recommend the bigger bed, or even just adding a twin and putting them all on the floor. we have a queen and you should see how insane it is when all 5 of us are in the bed. Now that Chris is always gone all of the kids sleep in the bed more often, and DH says that they have slept in bed with him while I've been in colorado. so it should be interesting while both Chris and I are in town.

(oh and I talked to DH and he was trying to get me to not nurse the baby when I get back "because she doesn't need it, she's fine" and I told him that yeah she didn't need it but she wanted it and there were plenty of things that HE doesn't need but wants. I told him I wasn't going to offer but if she wanted to nurse I would let her. He said "your the mom, you can say no."


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## AKislandgirl

Gillian! How Awesome! This is turning out to be a weekend of great news!!! I'm so happy for you. You and Royce are certainly off to a great start in your new community.

Yes, needing and wanting are two different things. I know that every child is different but I can tell you that Fiona is not ready to give up nursing. She seems to really need it rather than just want it at this stage. Emotionally she's growing a lot but with her personality of getting overwhelmed easily I think it will be quite some time before we wean. I'm sure pregnancy will change our nursing relationship but we'll see how that goes. It is good to hear how well Juniper handles being away from you though Courtney. I'm sure she is loving extra time with your DH (all the girls are I'm sure!). Hope you are feeling better and having a blast!

And the bed issue... we have a King bed with a twin next to it on the floor. Fiona sleeps in her twin for the first few hours of the night. Hoping to extend that! We need to get back on the night nursing. I like the extra room!


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## Mal85

Wow, I've missed so much over the weekend. We were out of town, so just checking back in.

Sue: CONGRATULATIONS!!! I'm so excited for you and your family! Yay, another pregnancy here!!

Cindy: Happy birthday to Makenna! I'm glad she was feeling better for her big day.

Courtney: Hope you're enjoying your trip and that your boobs got better! As for nursing, I can't say that I would withhold if she asked either. When Owyn weaned, it was because she didn't want to do it anymore and I thought it was silly to make her do it when she clearly didn't want to. She weaned just shortly after she turned one, so I wasn't really expecting that so young. I just stopped offering it one day to see if she would ask me for it and she never did. But if she had wanted it, I would have given it to her.

Starling: Remaining hopeful for you here.

As for us, Owyn spent the night with DH's parents last night. We went out of town to go to a wine and food tasting event with some friends. It was a really good time and a nice weekend away. It was a spur of the moment kind of plan, which made it even more fun. Owyn usually does very well when we leave overnight, but it takes her a while to warm back up to us when we get back. She doesn't get excited upon our return, so it makes me think she holds it against us a little even if she did have a great time while we were gone. I'm not sure how I feel about that.


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: Yay!!! Awesome! You should be so proud. Remind us again what you will be studying?

Sue: I started mucinex. I hope it doesn't keep me awake at night. You are still night nursing?

Thursday: We had our mattress on the floor for ages and we finally got a platform bed that is lower to the ground than our old bed. It is so nice to be off the floor again - I can't go back there. LOL! I would let Junes nurse too if she wanted. This is your last baby, right? I know it's been ages since you weren't preg or nursing, but why rush not having a baby anymore? 

Mal: I've never left M overnight. Even with DH. No way should could handle it these days. She needs mama so much! She is constantly insisting "I want you!" or "mama hold me". So nice for you and DH to have some time away! A wine tasting event sounds purely divine! I am pondering doing a night away with my 2 best girlfriends in wine country (an hour away from here)...but I know by the time they all get their act together enough for us to plan it, Makenna will be a decent amount older.

Do any of your little ones push away your partner now? I know M adores her dad but she is so into mama these days and she tells my husband to go away or to get out of our bed or get off the couch. Like he is in competition with her for my attention and she wants me to herself. A friend with a little one this age has the same issue so I figure it's normal. I just feel bad for DH. And it would be nice if she would want him to hold her sometime, instead of always me.


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## Everrgreen

Thanks for the congrats  It is an honours program in Public Health and Safety and I can complete it in 2 years because I already have a degree in biology. When I'm finished I can write the exam to become certified as a Public Health Inspector. I am soo excited! I really think I am going to love this program and the career that follows!

Mal - Glad you had a nice weekend away! I need to start doing more practice overnights for Royce to get him ready for my trip (which will be 3 nights away!) I'm feeling really unsure about the trip, I know I'm going to miss him like crazy and I'm worried that he'll think I abandoned him. But I'm going to go through with it and enjoy myself 

RE Nursing - Royce still nurses quite a bit and I still think he needs it (in his opinion anyway lol!). I pretty much never offer and he still nurses a lot. Let's see, upon waking, before nap, after nap, and then a few times in the evening in attempts to get him to settle and go to sleep, and sometimes once more in the early morning to get him to go back to sleep for a bit, plus if he has a bad fall or head bump he might want to nurse.... So yeah... A LOT!

RE Beds - Royce and I share a gigantic king size. Totally unnecessary, especially because no matter where I sleep Royce will be right there next to me, so most of the bed is vacant. But it's the bed we have and it is very comfortable. I think I would actually prefer a queen/double plus a twin pushed up next to it if I were with a partner and a kid.


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## justKate

Geez, I try to stay off the computer on the weekend, but there has been so much good news lately.... Wow!

Sue, I'm SUPER EXCITED for you! Is your DH as thrilled as we all are?! Sounds like Fiona is in the same sleeping situation as Aubs. She starts off in her toddler bed (next to my side of the bed), then wakes around 2 or 3 and comes to bed with us. I'm sort of worried that I'm going to hurt her, because I stretch over (still laying down) from our bed and drag her out of hers. Last night I nearly dropped her. Maybe I should wait until she actually gets out of bed before grabbing her...but I can't help it, I like the cuddles....

Gillian, hooray for getting into the program! It sounds interesting, how did you choose it? I think practice overnights are a great idea--I wish our parents were closer so that we could start it.

Cindy, Aubs HATES Daddy right now. Tries to hit him, runs away, screams "nooooOOOO!" when he gets near. I think it's a control thing--like testing out what happens when she rejects someone, knowing she can always come back to mama. Paul thinks its hilarious. He hasn't changed a diaper in weeks.

Ugh, gotta get back to work. More later.


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## Mal85

Gah! I'm supposed to go to the doc this afternoon to get the ball rolling on my fertility issues, but we're supposed to get a huge winter storm. Ice today and blizzard conditions tomorrow. I'm pretty sure I can safely get to my doctor's office, which is about 50 miles away. I'm worried about making it home. I so don't want to reschedule though. The next available appointment is a month away, then we've lost another whole month.

My sister lives up by there, so I do have a place to crash if I can't make it home, but that would put us in a rough spot with DH at home with Owyn and needing to work and my daycare kids... ugh. It's not really doing anything yet, so I think I'm just going to keep an eye on it and see what's happening closer to when I need to leave. Stupid weather, lol!


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## AKislandgirl

Mal, be safe! I hope the weather holds off. I'm sure you are anxious to get to your appt. Even if you may have to crash with your sister I'd go for it! Do you think they will start you on clomid?

DH seems to be in shock a bit! Not in the OMG where did this pregnancy come from kind of shock because obviously we were trying but in the "this is really happening" kind of shock. It was so much faster then we thought. He's a bit worried about finances and budget and fitting another kid into our little house. But he's excited too! He said he dreamt of walking with two little girls the other night. And he'll randomly make comments throughout the day about his excitement (vs fear!) which is great. This is sort of how he reacted to our pregnancy with Fiona. He wants to wait to tell anyone for quite a while. We'll see if I can hold it in. I bought a newborn diaper on diaper swappers last night too! He was annoyed and told me to wait but I couldn't help myself.

Fiona has had phases of wanting nothing to do with DH. And certainly when she is tired or hurt she only wants me. Right now she is in a "love Papa" phase which is great. She wants him to be by her side as soon as he gets home from work.

Night Weaning: yeah we went through the process a while back and then she got sick and I let her nurse. I never went back to it. But we are going to go at it again... for real and for keeps! I remember how tired I was in my first Trimester and I don't want to keep waking to nurse Fiona throughout the night. It's time!

And my baby will be 2 tomorrow! I can't believe it. This time 2 years ago I was already in labor! Good grief that was long!!!


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## justKate

Erin, 10 hours sounds pretty good to me, if only you could add in a 2 hr. nap in the middle of the day. Aubs sleeps ~9 hrs at night, then 2 hours at daycare (1-3p.m.). I wish they would put her down earlier, because I know she's tired around 11, but I guess 1:00 works for them. On the weekends I usually have to nap with her or take her for a drive to get her to sleep. Not very workable for you! If you figure out anything that really works, let me know!

Cindy, we're sort of regressing too. We had a week of all night in her big bed, and now we're back to a few hours in her bed and the rest of the night in ours. Part of the problem is I'm too lazy to get up and lay down in her bed with her to get her back to sleep. Easier to bring her to me. Maybe when you move you can start over with her in the new place?

Courtney, maybe your DH is trying to gently give you an "out"? Like tell you that it's okay if you want to stop nursing? I would just blow him off...oh, we'll see how it is when I get back... It would seem strange to not be nursing after so long. You're a rock star.

Still thinking of you, Starling.

Mal, I hope you decided to go to the appointment. A month is a long time when you're ttc.

As for us, things are pretty much the same. We're still waiting to hear where we'll move in May, hopefully this week or next. Our "dreamsheet" of where we'd like to go is: Gulfport MS, Yorktown VA, Seattle WA, Kodiak AK, and then Washington DC (where we don't really want to go). I don't even remember for sure if that was the order we gave, it's been so long. I'm hoping for Gulfport or Kodiak, because in those places DH would make enough money that I could SAH for up to 4 years, but we were told that there might be 2 other couples with priority over us for Kodiak, so it's not likely. I don't really care anymore at this point, I just want to know!

Aubs went to a friend's third birthday party on Saturday, which she thought was very grown up. Wore her hat and ate cake with great care, so that the big kids would know that she too is big. I really enjoyed watching her. The birthday girl (our neighbor) has a 2 month old brother that I got to hold for a while. It was wonderful, but it didn't make me all yearny-for-a-baby like I thought it would. It just made me want to go find my own baby and see what she was doing. That was a really good feeling. We're supposed to fly to DC on Thursday to see my parents, so I'm really hoping we have decent weather. It was 70 today, but is supposed to rain and freeze tomorrow. Bizarre. They'll probably still have snow when we get there, so I'm going to go to the consignment shop Wednesday and see if I can find some snow boots for Aubs. We had snow once last year and she wouldn't stand in it. Will be interesting to see what she thinks of it this year!


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## starling&diesel

A picture from Esmé's party ... and then another one just for fun, taken this afternoon on Esmé's birth day!


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## AKislandgirl

STARLING!!!! I'm so excited! This is amazing! I'm all teary. We get to have our babies together again! Woo Hoo! I'm so excited for you!!! Yeah!!! Can I say it again, yeah yeah yeah!!!


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## AKislandgirl

And I forgot.... happy birthday to Esmé! She looks beautiful! Great cake. She looks like she'll be an amazing big sister!


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## justKate

Yay Starling!!!







Fireworks for you and DP!!

How perfect, I'm so glad you tested. What a wonderful gift on E's big day!


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## mckittre

Glad to have so much good news to reply to! I can't keep up with everyone.

Congratulations Gillian! It sounds like you're excited about the program. How long will it take?

Starling: Happy birthday to Esme, and anticipating the next happy birthday as well! Congratulations!

Kate: Hope you find out where you're moving soon. Seattle's where I grew up, and Kodiak is a ferry ride away from me - don't know much about the other places

Nursing: Katmai is definitely still nursing quite a bit as well if I'm around (he likes that the milk has come back). I only offer as part of the bedtime routine (just before toothbrushing), all the other times he asks, and I certainly refuse some of those. I am getting better at nursing two at once. Not sure how much of his need is needing the comfort vs wanting milk vs being jealous of his sister, but I don't want to make him more jealous by cutting back too much.

Sleep: His dad sits with or lays with Katmai to get him to fall asleep, then slips away afterwards. He spends the whole night in his own bed, but sometimes dad has to go back a few times to calm him down (usually brief). Sometimes he comes to me in the early morning for one quick nursing and then goes back to sleep (hopefully!) with dad again. The nightweaning was a neccessity with another baby and a too-small bed. I just wish he didn't fight sleep with 10 million requests (which he does fairly often), and I wish he would sleep more. His 10 hours would be perfect with a nap, but I cannot get this child to nap anymore without walking for hours carrying him. I've tried nursing to sleep, repeating the bedtime routine, etc... Given up at this point and am hoping maybe to get him to bed earlier. He's never gone to sleep without his parents, but has woken up with just grandma once (when his sister was born). He was fine with that.


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## Mal85

Yay Starling!! I am so happy for you!!









I did end up going to the doc today. The ice has held up a little but we're due for over a foot of snow tomorrow. They're describing it as a "crippling snowstorm". Just hope we don't lose power.

Anyway, yes they put me on clomid. I wasn't surprised. So, now I just have to wait and see if I have a period this month. Haven't ovulated yet this month, so there's still hope we could do it this month. If not, we start the clomid. I'm hoping I'm as lucky as you Sue!


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## Everrgreen

CONGRATULATIONS STARLING!!!! YAY!!!! SO SO HAPPY FOR YOU!!!

And Happy Birthday to Esme!!!

Mal - glad you made it to your appt and back safe and sound! Fingers crossed that the clomid will add you to our growing list of BFPs!!

We are getting a huge snowstorm tomorrow and into Wednesday, probably the same one hitting you!

Kate - I chose the program for a lot of practical reasons - it leads to a job with a good salary, M-F 9-5 schedule etc. And also because the program is only 2 years for university graduates. Going to school for another 4 years just wasn't going to happen! And I couldn't find anything else that would give me so much in return for only 2 years of school. And the more I researched the program and the job the more I realized it would be absolutely perfect for me, my interests, my personality, etc. I researched other programs/jobs too but kept coming back to this one as the one for me


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## pranava

Thread crashing to say - Starling!!!! So, so happy for you!!!!! Congratulations!!!!!


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## Vegan Princess

OMG STARLING!!!! You totally surprised me with that pic!!!! Were you floored???? I have no time to write right now but had to say CONGRATS!!!!! I am *thrilled* for you. I know this was your one shot and I am just soooo happy for you and your little family that it worked out. Happy and healthy 9 months!

Mal: I started clomid this month too. Hasn't been a big deal. I think I am going to ovulate today so we shall see if it hurts or anything.

Wow wow wow. So happy. Ok, will catch up w/the rest of stuff during nap time. 

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Happy Birthday Fiona! I can't believe my baby is 2! How did that happen so fast?!

I'm going to take her out to lunch today. Tonight we'll have dinner of black bean quesadillas (her favorite!) and cupcakes. She is getting a baby doll sling and a trike! I asked her how old she was today and she said "I'm one". I said today you are a big girl and now you are two. NOOO I"M ONE! Ok baby girl!


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## Mal85

Happy birthday Miss Fiona! Hope she has a great day!

Owyn's kitchen was delivered over the weekend. Now, I want to just give it to her, I'm so impatient! DH is going to put it together to make sure we have all the pieces, we'll just keep it in the basement until her birthday.

We're getting a blizzard right now. Owyn and my daycare girl are loving it. They are back and forth between the windows and the doors watching the snow. It's a great way to entertain them, maybe we should get blizzards more often!

I have a question for you experienced TTC mamas. I've been taking OPKs and today it was pretty dark. I'm supposed to read it within 5 minutes, in that window it wasn't quite as dark as the test line. But just a few minutes later it was definitely darker than the test line. So, am I ovulating? Getting close? What's the deal?


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## Everrgreen

Happy Birthday Fiona!!!

I've been trying to teach Royce to answer 'how old are you?' he sometimes will, but not usually 

Mal - you could be building up to ovulation, if I remember right the tests will get darker as you approach ovulation. Also, I had really long cycles like you when I was ttc and sometimes the tests would get darker and then lighter again without reaching full 'positive' status. Like my body was building up to ovulate than changed it's mind - very annoying!

It has started snowing a bit here but most of it is coming over night and into tomorrow. They are calling for 20-30cm, I'm not impressed :/


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## Vegan Princess

Happy belated birthday Esme! How was the party? How much money did you raise?

Happy birthday Fiona!!! 

Mal: I don't think my tests ever get positive after the time limit if they aren't going to be that dark anyway. I'd say it is either positive or will be next time you test. If you aren't sure, I would test again tonight too.

Makenna is still sooo crabby. I guess still feeling not herself. I sure hope this isn't what age 2 is going to be like!

Cindy


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## justKate

Sue, too cute about Fiona wanting to be one. Aubs has no idea what that means. I think she thinks that counting from one to ten is a song that always ends in "yay!" I wonder about her comprehension of other things though.

Yesterday DH and i were talking about the rash of moms murdering their teenagers that has been in the news lately, and then how uncommon it is for mothers to murder other people's children rather than their own, etc., and I had this feeling like we shouldn't be talking about it in front of DD. But we do talk about the news a lot, including unpleasant stuff, so maybe I shouldn't try to filter it? We have curbed our use of profanity, but the subject matter, not so much....

Re. snow, I don't think we'll get any this year. My mom says they have a foot or so in Maryland, and i still need to check the consignment shop for some boots.


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## Mal85

Took another OPK last night and this morning, both with faint lines. So, I'm wondering if I was just gearing up for something that didn't happen or if they really were positives. We're trying our damn-dest just in case.









Our blizzard has passed and the whole town is snowed in. Except for people who work locally. My DH is working, he's out pushing snow around. And I have one daycare girl whose dad works here in town and mom works at home. I was surprised she came, but glad Owyn has a playmate for the day. Everyone left early yesterday and she was soooo bored with just Mommy. I tried making it like a snow day. We made hot chocolate and watched Rugrats together. But she was still stir crazy and sooooo happy to see Daddy when he got home. I think we'll try making snow ice cream this afternoon.

Kate, Owyn doesn't understand age either. My daycare girl just turned 2 and is always telling us "I two now!". Owyn has no idea what she's talking about.


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## mckittre

Happy birthday Fiona!

Snowing here too, which is nice, since we needed some more. We must have gotten a foot or so in the last 24 hrs, and it's still coming. Doesn't bother anyone or close anything here, though.

Katmai doesn't know age either. Or his full name. His idea of counting is "one, two, eight, nine, ten!"

Kate - I bet it's fine to talk about that stuff. She probably doesn't have a clue what murder is at this point? And when she's old enough to understand, she's probably old enough for you to explain things to her.


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## Vegan Princess

Oh how I wish Makenna were happy when daddy got home. Instead, she tells him to go back to work!

Makenna knows she is two but I don't think she knows what that means. She always says she "just came out" (of my belly). She counts to 3 but then never goes past. Though yesterday I heard her go "6,7,8,9,10".

Mal: Maybe that was your +. If you were temping you'd know. Are you going to keep doing OPKs just in case it wasn't +?

Snow sounds fun.Or a snow day does. But I am just thrilled that the sun has been out here and we have been able to be outside and go to parks and for walks again. And without a jacket! I doubt it will last long though.

We are just home from our facilitated playgroup. They had a huge under the bed storage bin filled with dried beans (all colors) and the kids got to fill up cups and test tubes and all sorts of containers and dump and repeat. It was a huge hit! I think I might have to put one of those together. I have an oatmeal bin like that but beans are less messy and more satisfying to pour, I think.

Cindy


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## justKate

Quote:

Originally Posted by *mckittre* 

Katmai doesn't know age either. Or his full name. His idea of counting is "one, two, eight, nine, ten!"

I've wondered if I should try to each Aubs her name, or our names. But I really don't want her calling me by my first name; I like hearing MOMMMMYYYY so much! She calls herself Bobbwee. What's your name? "Bobbwee." So now we're calling her "Bobs" all the time. Or "short stack." Poor baby.

Aubrey counts "bwan, boo, bour, bye, bour, bye, eigh, bye, YAY!"


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## starling&diesel

Hi everyone!

Happy belated birthday Fiona!

Mal: Fingers crossed for you!

Gillian ... Has "Snowmaggedon" hit you in full force yet?

Cindy: We raised $132 and two big baskets of baby food and diapers! All of that goes to Sheway, which is a local program that helps young moms and babes in the Downtown Eastside, which is Canada's poorest urban neighbourhood.

Esmé's been telling people she's "Almost two" for ages now, and now that she is two, she's telling everyone, "I'm two today ... it's my birthday!" I think she hopes for more presents and cake. She loved her cake! Normally, she doesn't like cake, but carrot cake with cream cheese icing did the trick and she loved it! Her party was crazy ... about sixty people, I think? About twenty toddlers, some school-aged, and lots and lots of parents who enjoyed having somewhere to take the littles on a Sunday afternoon. We did playdough, made Chinese year of the rabbit lanterns (construction paper cut-outs), did a circle-time with tonnes of songs, and then cake! It was a great time.

We have a huge bin of beans too! Such fun! Oh! And I made the playdough for the party ... super easy and lots of fun!


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## AKislandgirl

Mal: my guess is that you didn't ovulate. Unlike pregnancy tests where a line is a line, an ovulation test needs to be as dark as the test line to be truly positive. Your body may still be leading up to it or you might not ovulate at all this cycle. If not, I hope the clomid does the trick for you right away.

No snow here. We got 2 feet while we were away on vacation though. Glad to not have to shovel that although I do love playing in the snow!

I just brought Fiona in for her WBV today. She's a whopping 22.1 pounds, and 33.5 inches. She cooperated very nicely. Her Dr is a friend of mine so she knows her which helps. We don't see her often but Fiona knows that she's "Max's Mama". She kept asking to see Max. We brought some cupcakes to share with Max from her birthday dinner last night. The last thing I need around here is a dozen cupcakes! She very proudly handed them over to her Dr. It was pretty cute. I wonder if this next baby will be as tiny as Fiona?

Fiona is actually really into counting and her alphabet. I think she thinks of her number like her name though... why would it change?! By today she had it straight... "I'm two!"


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## Nillarilla

Oh Starling I knew it! I just knew it! Lots of sticky vibes your way.

Gillian Congratulations!

Happy Birthday to Fiona and Esme!


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## Everrgreen

Starling - Oh yes I was in the direct path of 'snowmaggeden' lol! We did get quite a lot of snow, I'm not sure if it's the storm of the century, but I also haven't left the house all day, so who knows what's out there! The wind was pretty crazy last night though.

Cindy - snow sucks. I always want that first snow fall, but then after a couple weeks I'm so tired of it. You're lucky!

Royce sort of counts to three, as in 'one two three JUMP' but he says it 'two two two JUMP' lol! And he pronounces his name 'Rice'.


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## Vegan Princess

Haha Kate - wouldn't you know - all the sudden Makenna started calling me Cindy tonight. "look at this Cindy" "get me this Cindy". She's known my name for a while so I don't know where it came from. It made me laugh though. Thought of you since you just mentioned not wanting that to happen!

Today Makenna described 2 emotions. I don't think she's done that before. Seems like a developmental milestone. Earlier she said "I'm sad" (when I wouldn't give her more dried blueberries) and just now she said "I'm upset" when she didn't want to get out of the tub.

Gillian: Rice - I like that! Makenna calls herself Nenna. So I call her that a lot of the time now too.

Starling: Awesome job with the party. So great that you raised the money and got the food. Plus it sounds like it was so much fun! Wish we all could have attended. 

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Fiona calls herself Nona so that is what we often call her too! She also calls herself Girl. She's really into naming things as Mama, Papa, and Girl. Mama water, Papa water, Girl Water. Sometimes she throws in Baby too. She likes to use different voices for each. Papa is always a deep voice and Baby is always a really high squeaky voice. I love it. She does it for everything... shells, rocks, trees, animals...


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## Everrgreen

I really try and label all of Royce's emotions for him. He definitely gets 'sad'. One time I was upset about something and crying and he said 'mama sad' and gave me a hug - so sweet  And he knows happy and excited.

Royce also does a different voice, he's done it several times and it is sort of mocking me in a way. One example: I was explaining to him that when he had to pee or poop he needed to tell me 'Mama I need to go potty', well after that he would look at me and in a high pitched voice say 'mama go potty!' and then just starting laughing. He was basically just making fun of me - such a monkey!


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## mckittre

Katmai knows everyone's first name, and occasionally calls me "Erin", but not often. He also calls me "me" (can't get his pronouns straight) as well as mom, mama, and mommy.

He's very into labeling things based on whose they are or who gave it to him "Lituya's rug", "Mama's boots", "Katmai's chair", "sweater from Amy", "red car from Gigi" "mittens Andrea gave to you" etc...

Gillian - that's cute! I'm not sure if Katmai gets "sad" He knows happy. And scary. Maybe upset? Maybe more - I should be better about naming those for him.

Lots of fresh new pretty snow here, but no apocalypse. Just nice for snowshoeing, sledding, and for the skiers.


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## Thursday Girl

Junes doesn't call herselfanything, she does say Mama and Dada and just recently said her sisters's names. Doe (jo) and Jewel I couldn't quite cathc how she said it just that she said it. She has had a language explosion but it's mostly just single words with a few 3 word sentences.

Today we had her birthday party, she had a really good time.

I LOVE the bean idea, she is so into pouring things that I know that would entertain her for a long time....she is also into dropping things on the floor and rearranging everything so the beans sor tof scare me as well .LOL.

I am making a slideshow of it, I'll share once it is finished. She says she is "do" but I don;t think she really understands it.


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## AKislandgirl

Happy Birthday Juniper!!!

Today I am feeling so so tired. And a bit queasy. I could have really used a long nap today. I tried to sleep with Fiona but she woke up after only half an hour or so. Not long enough. I'm hoping she will at least go to bed a bit early tonight because of it. I just put her on the couch and plugged her into Little Bear. Sigh!

Fiona has called me Sue on some occasions. She's been calling me Mom since we got back from vacation. Hearing her older cousins call my sister Mom got her going. She goes back and forth with Mom and Mama now. I wish she would just call me Mama because she sounds too old calling me Mom! LOL. She calls DH Papa but often will call him MaPa. She always corrects herself but I think its funny!

She's really into singing and sings songs all day long. Sometimes softly to herself and sometimes in full gusto at the top of her lungs! Her favorites are ABC and Baby Beluga. "Baby Aluga, oooh baby aluga!" Super cute! I am not usually permitted to join in either!

We shared the news of our pregnancy with our parents today. Both Grandma's got teary over the phone. Pretty fun. We will slowly begin telling friends over the next few weeks. I didn't tell my Mom that my sister has known for days!. Shh, don't tell her! It's fun to hear their excitement over it! My Mom is retiring from being a school principal after this school year. She said people are always asking what her plans are once she retires. She said, "Now I can tell them that I will be taking a trip to Kodiak in October!" Glad we could help her out!


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## Thursday Girl

so neat to hear grandparents excitement.

so i got my very first period since Juniper was born yesterday. I knew it was coming I could totally tell I was ovulating a couple of weeks ago, and then top that with going away for 4 days. The cramps and backache are pretty hardcore, and my stuff felt so uncomfortable yesterday, like just had a baby uncomfortable. totally not cool.

Okay here is the birthday party slideshow





.

Her actual birhtday isn't until Tuesday, we wil lgo to busch gardens to the sesame street area whiel her big sisters are in school (especially since my oldets always complains when we go to the sesame street area)


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## AKislandgirl

Courtney, that is super cute! I love it! I may have to put a slide show of Fiona I put together for our blog on here. It's her 2nd year of life. Fun!

It still throws me off to see her at the park in short sleeves! HaHa! We would have had to do snowsuits!


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## Vegan Princess

Courtney: Happy birthday Junes! A good idea w/the beans is to put a big sheet under the containers then you can just pick it up and dump it back in afterward. I've done a container of oatmeal with all sorts of cups and spoons and always have to vacuum after. Sorry about AF! At least she stayed away for 2 years!!

Sue: Sorry for feeling bad - but try to be happy about it.  So exciting to be breaking the news!

So we got the keys to our new house on Friday!!! We have been packing and moving stuff over. They are redoing the hard wood floors in the bedrooms and won't be done until thurs or friday. So official moving day for the big furniture is valentines day. But we are filling up the basement and getting the kitchen moved in and unpacked. Hopefully this won't be too bad since we are able to do a little each day. I already have half my kitchen packed and I think the kitchen is usually the most annoying part to do. Thankfully, Makenna has been playing nicely while I pack today. And she seems to be back to her normal self and loves daddy again! Thank goodness! I coulnd't take much more of the clinginess! I realized she has 2 of her 2 yr molars half thru on the bottom and the 2 I teeth on top and starting to break through. Don't know about the top molars bc I can't see them. So she has probably been in pain from teeth, in addition to being sick.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Happy Birthday Junes!!!

Royce loves playing with beans but he makes such a huge mess. He likes to dump them on the floor and then fling his hands through them and scatter them throughout the room. Maybe oatmeal would be better, at least then I can vacuum the mess!

Royce had his first full overnight with Grandma last night. He did very well! I did not. I missed him so much and couldn't sleep. He also went over 24 hours without nursing. I'm glad that he does well with Grandma because it is nice to be able to have that break once in a while. I don't know how I'm going to survive 3 nights in April. I am going to miss him like crazy :'(


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## Mal85

Happy birthday this week to Miss Junie! I love seeing the pics you put up on FB. It makes me think of when I have my second, third, etc. children. Having older siblings to try and keep up with must be so fun for her!

Gillian, it's so great that Royce does so well when you're gone. I know it's a little sad to think they don't need us as much as we think they do, but try to enjoy it and have some fun!

Owyn has started referring to herself as "my". "My want milk". "My look cute". Etc, etc. Not sure where she picked it up but it's pretty cute. This morning I put a necklace on and she said "Oh, Mommy pretty!".







Then I put her amber necklace on her and she squealed and said "My so cute!". She really is so great and can make me smile anytime! She's also learning that about herself. If I haven't been paying attention to what she's doing, she'll sometimes walk up to me and really sweetly say "Hi Mommy!" and give me a hug. That's how I know she's been up to something no good. Already covering her tracks with cuteness.

Not much to report on the TTC front. I got a glaring positive OPK on Friday, so finally no more confusion there! I got the positive about midday and tested again that night, definite negative. Is that normal? Really hoping we catch the egg!! I'm very hopeful. 4 of us have been trying, now 2 have gotten BFPs. Now it's me and you, Cindy. Really hoping we join the others this month!!


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: That is fantastic Royce did so well! I think I know what you mean about the not sleeping. My husband can never sleep when M and I go visit my family - even though he thinks he will bc no one will be waking him up. He knows better now and dreads the nights. Maybe you will have some cocktails while you are in the carribean to help you sleep. ;-)

Mal: It is common to have a short surge. That is why they reccomend testing 2-3 times/day - so you don't miss it. Yay - I hope that you won't need the clomid! As for me on the TTC front, I *think* I ovulated 5 days ago. My OPK was never obviously positive. Of the thick band, only a thin part of the line was as dark as the control. I think that is considered positive, but not sure. I've had that happen in other months too but I don't know for sure if I ovulated those months or not. Happened last month but my progesterone levels were so low I might not have ovulated. I am going for a progesterone level blood test on Wednesday and that will tell me for sure if I did ovulate. So I'm not getting my hopes up at all until I get those results back - like Sue.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

*Gillian:* I agree that it is awesome that Royce did so well. I wish I had family near me. Maybe not for nights so much but it would be nice for Fiona to be comfortable in another home without me for an afternoon. I would probably have a hard time sleeping without her too though.

*Courtney:* did Juniper want to nurse when you got home?

*Mal:* I think it does sound like you ovulated! That is great! I hope you caught that egg! It would be great to not have to use the clomid. Maybe just having the prescription will be the trick for you guys! Sending lots of baby dust your way.

*Cindy:* Crossing fingers that you ovulated too. Let us know how the blood work goes. And yeah about your house! It must feel so good to be moving in. I think a slow move in is the way to go. We did that when we moved last time and it was a lot better then just doing it in a day. Totally agree that the kitchen is the biggest PIA to move. I hope that the next time we move we will have movers to do it for us! (A girl can dream right?!) It will be great for you guys to get settled into your new place.

*AFM:* Fiona is in a bad sleep funk. The last two nights she (and I ) have slept horribly. She is waking up all the time, crying in her sleep. She has been a nursing fiend! Ugh! And she isn't napping well either. The whole sleep begets sleep thing I think. I wish I knew what was going on with her. Hard to not know what to do. And I am soo tired. She has all of her teeth so its not that. She hasn't had a cold or anything so I don't think her ears are bothering her. I don't know but I hope it passes soon. I really need to sleep. I feel crabby and I get frustrated with her easily during the day. I don't like it! I know it sounds weird because I don't think she really gets it but I sort of wonder if it has to do with us telling her that we are having a baby. We've told her she will be having a baby just like her friends who have new brothers so she sort of understands. I held my friends newborn the other day and she immediately wanted me to hold her too and asked to nurse. Maybe she understands just enough to know something is changing. Maybe I'm totally wrong.


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## mckittre

Happy birthday Juniper! It is so funny to see pictures that look like summer at this time of year. Katmai hasn't been outside without his blue snowsuit in months.

AK - I wouldn't be surprised if she did sense the baby coming. Katmai got really clingy very early in my pregnancy - before I knew I was pregnant, even! And I've heard it from others too. I think if they're still nursing, they can sense the changes in your milk, even if they don't intellectually get it.

Mal and Cindy - Good luck!

Gillian - Great that Royce did so well, even if you did miss him. I suspect that part will be a little easier when you're somewhere else doing something fun, rather than just being at your own house without him. I suspect Katmai would be fine with Grandma for the most part (he loves her and sees her every day), but he's been a bear to put to bed lately for us - I don't know how he'd do for anyone else.


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## justKate

Yay, I didn't miss too much! We went to Maryland to visit my parents last Thursday and got home LATE last night. It was really hard getting up this morning, but I made it to work. Aubrey was a PITA on the plane. It was full on the way out, so she was in our laps kicking, hitting, throwing things, just being out of control. On the way back we had a seat for her, and she was fine most of the time, but she lost it in the bathroom when I was trying to change her. It's a good thing the toilets are tiny, otherwise I might have flushed her. So glad that's over.

The visit was good--Aubrey loves my parents and had lots of fun, and of course they were eating it up. Grandma and Grandpa had a little birthday party for Aubrey while we were there--no kids, excpet her 5 year old 3rd cousin, but lots of fun and presents. Thankfully most people got her books or the like, so bringing them home was easy and they won't take up too much space. Her birthday is Valentine's Day, but we probably won't do anything since we're planning to see Elmo Live the following week. Being at my parents' house did remind me why I like living a little ways away from them though--my mom is something else. Emotionally draining, I guess you'd call it. At least if we end up living closer we'll have childcare on a regular basis. We did find out that our possible next home has been narrowed down to 3 choices: DC, Chesapeake VA, or Yorktown VA. Which is okay. Not sure which one I'd prefer; at this point I just want to know. Grrr I'm anxious, but all I can do is wait. On the bright side, that's only 67 days of work left for me!

Mal and Cindy, lots of baby dust for you!


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## Nillarilla

Happy Birthday Junes!

Gillian it's fabulous that Royce did so well. I sleep ok away from my kids but usually I am exhausted from one thing or another so that's probably it. The ache starts in the am when I wake up without them.

Mal & Cindy sending baby vibes your way.

Erin I hope things with a newborn and a toddler are going as well as can be hoped and you are finding a way to get outside.

Justkate fingers crossed you will hear soon.

We are almost completely diaper free here. We've been on several successful outings in undies. She's been accident free for several days. She's evening waking up dry on most mornings. This was actually easier than I expected with all the crying at the beginning. I truly think she was crying because it hurt to pee. She had such a severe diaper rash which gave me the push to try. Once that cleared up she was so much more relaxed about things.

Sue I'm no expert but Fiona sounds like D does when she's been exposed to milk products. Dairy doesn't give her a rash or diarrhea or any real physical symptoms but it sure gives her emotional and sleep issues. She cries in her sleep. She's very moody during the day going from high to low and tears quickly. Sometimes she gets congested but not always. But she always has sleep disturbance and wakes crying in the night. Once we find the culprit and eliminate she's better in a couple days. Maybe Fiona has another allergy? Gluten sensitivities don't usually stop at gluten usually there's a sensitivity to something else like dairy or soy or eggs.

All these babies make me want another right now. I'm dying to find out if I got into my program. I'm going to see if I can get into my online account today for some news or find someone to email and bug.

So many changes at work right now and none of them good. Now we are not allowed to take days off for no reason because the hospital is entitled to full time employees or some other such bull. In our contract we are allowed 21 days off a year for whatever we want but our manager says if everyone takes those then she can't justify the amount of staff she has. I'm not totally sure that's the real reason. Our lines are kind of uneven and we are shorter on one side of our rotation. The side with more staff takes time off so there isn't too many people and so they don't have to float to emerg. The hospital counts on having our extra staff to pull us to other places to work. According to them a nurse is a nurse. They don't want to increase staff anywhere else and our staffing comes out of a provincial budget not the hospitals so they don't have to pay for us if they don't need us but can yank us around when they want.


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## AKislandgirl

*Nillarilla:* I sure hope you find out soon about your program! It sounds like you are ready for the change. What a frustrating work situation!

And I am so impressed you are diaper free these days! We are so not there. Not even close to there. I think I actually have to buy some new bigger diapers. This AM Fiona woke up dry so I suggested we sit on the potty. We sat there and read a book 3 times over and nothing. So on went her diaper and within 5 minutes had peed in her diaper. I don't know when we will be diaper free. I have visions for lots of naked outside time this summer.

*Kate: * Your plane trip sounded tough! I'm sure you are glad to be home. I sure you find out your next home soon. You have been waiting for sooo long! Love the work countdown. I hope it goes faster once you have your destination in place.

AFM: We all slept better last night. This morning Fiona is having a hard time sharing with our daycare girl though. I think its a normal 2 year old thing though! They really do fight like sisters... total love hate relationship! LOL One second they are fighting over a toy and the next they are laughing and hugging. Fiona really knows how to push her buttons though. It was bugging S that Fiona's foot was touching her early so she scooted over. Fiona just kept scooting over with her to tap her foot on S's leg. Such a stinker!


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## mckittre

Nilla: Are they allowed to give you vacation in contract then not let you take it? Sounds like it should be illegal. And diaper free, wow!

The best we can do around here is naked-butt time in the yurt, where he'll make it to the potty for a good proportion of pees. Or will pee a little on the floor, say he doesn't like that, then finish on the potty.

Doing pretty good getting outside with the kids, though I might not today, since I don't like rain on snow much. Baby wearing has been my savior with 2 kids. I have recently been practicing 3 key wrapping skills: Wearing 2 at once, nursing in the wrap, and wearing the newborn on my back. These new tricks make a huge difference!

Katmai enjoying his new sled, and helping me get kale from under the snow for a winter salad.


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## Vegan Princess

Erin: You always have best pics!

Nilla: I am crossing my fingers you find out soon and it's good news! Sorry about work - how frustrating!! I too am jealous of the diaper progress. We're not making any here either. I just don't think sh is ready. She doesn't want anything to do w/the potty lately.

Kate: I hear you on moms being draining. I love mine and miss her so much but it is draining visiting her. I can read my mom's expressions on her face like no one else so I always know if she is annoyed or thinking something not good. And I have always been very emotionally effected by her. Sorry the plane ride sucked. You made me LOL about the flushing Aubrey!

Sue: Glad you got a good night's sleep. I'm sure Fiona does understand about the baby. Makenna is dying for a brother or sister. She is obsessed with babies and dolls. She knows she grew in my tummy and that she was born...talks about it a lot. So she seemed to understand when her friend's mom was pregnant and then had her baby. When I had my chemical I did tell Makenna and she was exited but thankfully it was easy to undo when I lost the pregnancy. I was wondering if you'd told Fiona yet. I know I will want to tell M right away but I feel so cautious now after all I have been through this time around. So I may wait a bit. If that time ever comes.

Getting antsy about my blood test. Trying to prepare myself for the possibility I did't ovulate so I don't get dissapointed. Supposed to go tomorrow but may try and go tonight instead. I want the results back sooner!

Oh and as for sharing. I watch Makenna's friend every Tuesday (and her mom watches M on Thursdays in exchange). They had SO much troube sharing and taking turns today. Like they just could NOT do it. Mostly it was Makenna who wouldn't relent.

And sleep. Sleep suck here. It takes at least an hour to put M to bed in her crib. I have given up on it for naps and she naps in our bed now. I lay down with her and she goes to sleep w/out a fight. I think we are super close to giving in and doing the same for night time...but we don't want her in our bed all night. Not with our queen bed. I think when we move we might turn the crib into a big girl bed. Or get a twin mattress and put it on the floor. That was we can lay down with her. She had been asking for a big girl bed lately. I think bc her friend she we do the babysitting swap with has one.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Kate - Stuck on a plane with Royce would be my worst nightmare lol! He can really flip out sometimes and I can't imagine not being able to just leave and escape the giant embarrassment of it!

Nilla - Sorry about the work troubles. It really doesn't sound legal. What is the program you applied to?

Royce pretty much sleeps through the night now. I do have to ignore him a bit in the early morning hours (5 -7am), he wakes wanting to nurse but I need the sleep. I do think I need to start working on a more appropriate schedule for him. He stays up so late and it is frustrating.

Erin - It sounds like you are really settling into life as a mother of two!

I had such a rough night last night. I felt exhausted and a bit dizzy, then all night I had horrible nightmares, hot flashes, chills, and felt sick. I've been gradually feeling better throughout the day but I'm still exhausted. I talked to a friend who gets migraines and she said she's had migraines like that, with no headache just the other symptoms. Seems weird though as I've never had a migraine before.

In happier news I went on my first real date  It went really well and we are going out again on Thursday. I am pretty excited about him 

Anyway, Royce is throwing a fit as usual so I better go :/


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## justKate

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Gillian28* 

In happier news I went on my first real date  It went really well and we are going out again on Thursday. I am pretty excited about him 

A DATE?! Where did he come from? That IS exciting.


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:
Originally Posted by *justKate* 

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Gillian28*
> 
> In happier news I went on my first real date  It went really well and we are going out again on Thursday. I am pretty excited about him
> 
> A DATE?! Where did he come from? That IS exciting.


Agreed! How fun! And you get to go out again! I'm so happy to hear this!

Erin: I love those pictures! What type of wrap do you use? I had a wrap I loved with Fiona but it was a stretchy t-shirt material so it only lasted so long. I never did figure out nursing in it either. That is my goal for #2! And a back carry! You are my inspiration!!

Another better night sleep last night. Thank god because she is napping horribly. Ugh! If its not one thing it the other right? Such is the life of a Mama!

I've been doing a yoga class 2 nights a week which I have to say has been amazing! I think that it is great for all of us! Me because I'm doing something good for my body and getting time to myself. DH because he almost never has Fiona alone and is getting better at it! And Fiona because she gets special time with Papa and is learning that its OK if I'm not with her 24/7. Each time I go it has been easier and easier for her.


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## Nillarilla

Gillian Yay A date!!!! That's so exciting!

Sue the yoga sounds fabulous. My kids get lots of daddy alone time when I work but it's so nice to get some me time. I'm taking a cake decorating course once a week right now. I am enjoying it.

Erin You must be so strong wearing 2 kiddos!

Ya the work thing is frustrating. It's not vacation days they are taking away it's just leave of absence days. The contract says you can take 21(7.2hr days) per year without it affecting full time status. It used to be if there was not more than 2 people off you could ask for that day off. Some people take one at the beginning or end of their set as a break. I take one occassionally for something kid related or so I actually get to have a day off with my dh. I don't think they realize that if they just let people take their time off when they need it then they will have less sick time and accidents.

I checked online for my application status and it says incomplete and more items needed. Yet I haven't received any communication. So frustrating! I can't figure out what might be missing. I emailed them so hopefully I will hear back soon. Gillian it's a master's of nursing and health information science at UVic.

Sharing yeah we are having a few issues here too but since her brother and most of the daycare kids are bigger they just give in when she screams and let her have it. Ugh!


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## Everrgreen

Nilla - fingers crossed that you got in! Good thing you checked, just in case something is missing!

AK - I am going to yoga tonight! So looking forward to it. I am majorly stressed at the moment.

I posted a thread in the sahm forum. I think I am done with being home. I need to escape. Just not sure how to do that. At the moment I have locked myself in the bathroom, but Royce is just standing at the door banging and whining :/

Anyway... Yes my date went well  I met him online and we messaged back and forth for a couple weeks. Then he gave me his number so I called him. The phone call was a bit awkward (I am so not a phone person!) but it was ok. Then we decided to meet for tea and that went very well. We chatted for about 2 hours  And we are having dinner tomorrow night. So far I really like him, so we'll see what happens 

I can hear Royce in his playroom now. Thank God!


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## Mal85

Gillian I'm so glad you're getting back out there. I hope it goes great for you!

I hear you on the staying home front. I have at least one day a week when I'm also locked in the bathroom for a few minutes telling myself I can't do this anymore (today is one of those days). I'm so done. I'm looking for a job. It's tough where I live though. Locally, there just isn't much and I really don't want to drive into the city and spend 2 hours a day on the road. So, job hunting could take a while. I registered with the state, which would come with great benefits and plenty of paid time off and sick days. Last Saturday, I went to take exams for two different positions working with families. I'll hear from them in a week or two and I'm really hoping something comes from it. I do worry about finding work while we're also TTC. But if I get a job in time, I can take the family medical leave and get 12 weeks off along with any paid time off I haven't used. If I play my cards right, I could get about 4 months at home with a new baby.


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: Yay for the date! Hope #2 goes even better! How fun. I'm sorry you are stressed. I can totally relate. When I was working 1 morning/week for my old company, I loved that break time. I feel blessed to be at home but our kids are old enough that if you need a sanity break, being in pre school is actually going to be fun for them. Are you ready to go back full time or start with a few days/week? I think working 2 days/week would be awesome (personally). Still get to be mommy more time than not but 2 full days of quiet, sane, adult time. Is Royce having a difficult time right now? Last week when Makenna was all clingy and not herself, I wanted to run away from home. Thank goodness she is normal again!

Cindy


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## justKate

Working 2 or 3 days a week is my fantasy. Aubs LOVES daycare, and I know its going to be hard on her when we leave and she is home with me. When I drop her off she runs for the teacher and says "bye bye mommy!" We'll have to have lots of activities planned so that we don't go crazy together when we're alone all day! But 40 hours/week is too much for me. Trying to find a happy medium....


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## AKislandgirl

I have days where I too feel like I'm losing it! Today for instance. Fiona is super clingy and she and my daycare girl have been going at it all week. I spend so much time making sure Fiona isn't hitting or pulling her hair. What has been driving me insane is that Fiona isn't napping well at all. That is usually my break time. She just wants to lay in bed nursing for an hour. I just can't do it. She is asleep in my arms right now and I'm hoping I can just lay her down without her stirring to nurse again.

We've decided that I won't do childcare next year. I'm really excited about that. To just have MY kids here will be wonderful. I went down to one girl from 3 last year and I'm really ready to be done. The mom is a teacher which means I'll just have her through the first week of June. That gives me lots of time with just Fiona before our new lo arrives. So Kate, I'm on a countdown too!

Ma and Gillianl: good luck on the job hunt. I'm sure you'll find the right thing soon.


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## mckittre

Gillan - glad the date went well!

I have a mostly great work situation here. Both my husband and I work at home part time, choose our own hours and how much we work for the most part, can juggle the kids, take off on day hikes and longer expeditions... The downside is that we all live and work in the same tiny space and it can be a bit chaotic ensuring that what needs to get done does get done. And there's no work/home separation, so we have to constantly figure out how to balance it all. But mostly I love it. I'd take this over a normal job any day.


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## starling&diesel

Oh my goodness ... I missed so much! I thought it would show up with new posts under my username, but it didn't! Now I'm so out of the loop!

*Gillian* ... a DATE! So exciting! How on earth did you decide what to wear? And I bet you shaved your legs and everything! Wee!

*Mckittre* ... You are my babywearing hero, mama! And yum, yum about the kale! I craved kale when I was pregnant with Esmé and I'm craving it again!

*Cindy* ... When do we get to see pics of the inside of the house? I love moving!

*Kate* ... Can't wait to hear where you're going. Still no fave in particular?

*Mal* ... Exams to work with families? What's that about? Good luck with getting a fabulous job!

*Nilla* ... What a drag about the shake-ups at work. And another drag about the school hassle. Argh!

*AFM*: Got our second beta numbers and everything is doubling nicely! We have an early u/s scheduled for Feb 21 with the fertility clinic. I called the midwives today. We're not going with the same practice as last time, but we are going with one of the same midwives. She was a student at the time, and was responsible for the majority of my care, and attended the delivery. We liked her. We also loved our primary midwife, but we don't like her partner. I experienced her partner as mean, cold, and not pleasant. Thankfully she wasn't at E's birth. My partner and I both got such bad feelings from her, and she was the one who told me that I was starving my baby when I was dealing with breastfeeding issues. I can't let it go, and DP doesn't want to either, so it's sad that we can't have our original midwife but this one is lovely. I'm excited!

It's hard being at work this time. Our call volume at my station now is so much bigger than my old station. I'm exhausted! And sick smells make me want to vomit. Hope that gets better! Craving kale and Marmite. Good times!


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## Mal85

Starling, the way it works in my state is that you have to get on a registry to apply for jobs. I did that, then there are certain positions you have to take what's called a Merit exam to see how you would perform on the job. Then, that puts you on the list for when a position opens for that job. I took one exam for what's called a Child Support Specialist, which is exactly what it sounds like. I'd be working with families setting up child support, determining how much is owed, establishing paternity, etc. The other was for a Family Support Eligibility Specialist. I'd be interviewing families who apply for any kind of grants or support from the state and determining if they qualify for what they've applied for. The tests were pretty straight forward and I think I did well on them. I get my test results in about a week, so we'll see. These two jobs in particular were supposed to have openings within the next month.

I love hearing about your pregnancy, keep the updates coming! I'm so impatient with this 2ww thing, but trying to hold off on testing. I will test this weekend just because we're getting together with friends and there could be wine involved, but it'd probably still be too early. If my ovulation test was right, I'd only be about 7 or 8 dpo. I haven't noticed too many symptoms so far other than I've been really tired this week and I've had some unexpected diarrhea (sorry, tmi). I try not to dwell on any possible symptoms, could be all in my head.


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## Vegan Princess

Yay - keep the prego updates coming!

Will post inside pics in a few weeks.  Tomorrow I can get in there and finish cleaning then the move is on in earnest!

I just now got my progesterone results back. I have no idea what to make of them. And they got posted to the dr's online site so I did not speak to the dr. SUE- perhaps you can shed some light. It was 12.8. Anything over 10 for non medicated means you ovulated but they want it to be over 15 on clomid. So did I or didn't I? And does this mean I will be taking 100 mg next month instead of 50 ? (assuming I'm not preg - which now I don't know if it is possible I even could be or not?). Hmmm. At least it went up from 4.4 without clomid. Argh - such a long journey this is turning out to be!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - I don't know about the numbers but fingers crossed that you ovulated!

Mal - good luck with the exam!!! They both sound like very interesting jobs!

Starling - Yay! I'm so happy to hear everything is going well with your pregnancy  I was wondering where you had disappeared to!

So, my date last night went so well. Could not have gone better. He is so completely awesome. I'm smitten  We are seeing each other again tomorrow


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## AKislandgirl

*Gillian:* Yeah! That is so awesome! Has he met Royce yet or are you going to wait a bit on that?

*Cindy:* The numbers are confusing. They didn't tell you when they gave you the results? I'd say you probably did ovulate. I don't know what my number was this last cycle. But on the 50 mg I had a 3! So needless to say my fingers are crossed for you. Where are you in the 2ww?!

*Mal:* Crossing fingers for you too. This is exciting! This weekend might be early but you never know. A faint line might just be there!

I am exhausted! Like hit by a truck exhausted. Erin, I can't believe you skipped this. I'm finding that I feel pretty good in the morning but by midday I feel sick and so so tired. This is so much earlier then when I was pregnant with Fiona. I didn't really have any symptoms with her until I was about 6 weeks. I'm at 5wk 3 days now and have been feeling this way for a week. Maybe it has something to do with keeping up with a toddler this time around! My first appt is Feb 22. I'm also trying to talk DH into meeting with the midwife to at least ask questions. He's pretty much said no way to home birth but I'm going to stand my ground. He doesn't get to have that opinion until it is a well educated opinion. My pants already feel tight too. I was hoping to keep that box of maternity clothes in the storage loft for several more weeks but its not looking like that will happen!

Fiona woke up with a cold yesterday. She's feeling pretty crappy and clingy. Maybe she was feeling it coming on and that is why we've had a rough week. It's 8:30 now and she's still sleeping which is great. She took a 3 hour nap yesterday too. Hoping this extra sleep helps her kick the bug soon.


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## justKate

Sue, didn't you mention that you have a new HB midwife in town? I wonder if she also has hospital privileges? Your DH probably needs to get all of those "what if" questions out of the way with the midwife... he might come around. That sucks that you're feeling crappy already. I was about 6 weeks when I found out that I was pg--and the nausea/fatigue immediately made sense. I wonder if we sort of ignore the symptoms more when we don't know. And of course having a toddler is draining in and of itself!

Cindy, I'm going to be that you O'ed. You should call the office and bug them about it if you have a chance!

Starling, yay for your betas! I totally agree with not going with the same midwife, since you have an option. Someone who does birth stuff should know better than to say hurtful things like that. If it makes you feel better, I was starving my baby too--it took 6 days for my milk to come in. As skinny as she is, you'd think I'm still starving her....

Mal, the jobs sound neat. Where will Owyn stay while you're at work?

Gillian, i'm really excited for you. What's this guy's deal? Does he have kids? I saw another thread where you posted about dating stuff...not sure how I ended up there, but people were sort of negative, so I hope you're not giving that input too much weight. You're in a different situation--you didn't pick a loser, or an addict, or an abuser. Your stbx just lost his marbles. So don't doubt yourself or play by some stupid rules made for people who habitually make bad choices. Just my 2 cents. Yay for dating! As my BFF says, make sure you aren't wearing your granny panties tomorrow!









ETA: Not that any of us lovely ladies ever wear Granny Panties. EVER.


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## Vegan Princess

This is quick bc M has a cold and is wanting to snuggle. Dr sent quick note that my results were in the normal range. So I guess I did ovulate. I read about women having lower levels after clomid and ending up prego...but had to take progesterone supps. She wants me to come in and discuss...but the appt is on monday and we are moving. So I am waiting for her to call me back. She is only in on mon and fri and I think if I am not prego, I will need to start clomid before she could see me next friday. Anyway, i'm sure her convo will be enough. Glad to know I did ovulate though!!!

M got up at 5:50 today. But since she has a cold, she wanted to go back to bed at 8:50. We slept until 11. OMG it was so divine!!!!

I'll be back later for personals..

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Kate - Yeah that's the single moms dating thread, a lot of the women there have been through abusive situations so they are very cautious about everything and very on guard. Which I can understand. I think I have a good sense of the 'red flags' to look out for without having to over analyze it. And I know that no relationship is without the risk of being hurt. I've just accepted that that's a chance I have to take. And I'm hoping this guy won't hurt me like stbx did. But, he is really super sweet, he does not have kids but he is totally ok with the fact that I have one (I'm going to wait a while longer before introducing Royce though). He says the most wonderful things, some of the things he says are too perfect that I worry he's playing with me. But I think he's just geniunely sweet. We met on eHarmony and I think the site did a good job of matching us in terms of interests and personalities. And, ummm, he's a good kisser  So yeah, probably time to start thinking about shaving and trading in the nursing bras lol!


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## Vegan Princess

We are in the thick of packing. Just had to say LOL to Gillian about the shaving and trading in the nursing bras! That dating life seems to distant these days. But wow, how fun they were! Royce is at a good age for you to be getting out and getting romanced again. Enjoy!  Sucks that you have to start from scratch, but you deserve to have lots of fun in the process! Do you have thoughts of moving royce out of your bed now that you have actually started dating? I know your mom was pushing for that.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Hope packing went well Cindy! And Gillian hope you had more fun dates!

This morning as we were waking up Fiona started rubbing my belly and she said, "Baby in there." Then she reached down and kissed my belly and said, "I kiss baby!"


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## mckittre

Katmai's best pregnancy quote was "Baby in mom's tummy. Bear cookies in Katmai's tummy." I don't think I totally skipped the exhaustion of early pregnancy, I think I just didn't know what it was. I remember thinking I was starting to get sick, and I remember thinking I was just really out of shape.

We had Katmai's birthday party yesterday - some sledding outside followed by 12 kids (most running around wildly) and about 15 or so adults for a potluck in our little yurt. It was crazy but fun. I think Katmai was a little overwhelmed, but enjoyed it. He requested pie "with apples inside and blueberries on top" for his party, so that's what we made. His actual birthday is tomorrow (I had both kids on holidays to make them easier to remember).


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## Everrgreen

Happy Birthday Katmai!!! Love the pictures - looks like a very fun day!

And Happy Birthday Aubrey!!!!

I love the toddler quotes about pregnancy, so cute!

Cindy - hope the packing is going well! Such a pain to do but it will all be worth it when you're in your cozy home!

AFM: I think I'm falling in love... I'm trying to take things slow and really think things through but I can't believe how strongly I feel about this guy after such a short period. He is just so great and there is such a strong connection between us. It makes me so incredibly happy but also scared. Scary to think how much I'm starting to care about this person. We spent the day together on Saturday and talked on the phone for about 2 hours yesterday while Royce was napping. We both seem to be feeling the same strong emotions. I really just can't believe all of this - but I'm so happy 

Anyway.

And things are good with Royce. His vocabulary is really improving. I still don't know what he's saying sometimes but a lot of the time I can figure it out. He's been spending some time with my best friend and her fiance this week and he does so well with them and it is awesome to have those breaks. And yesterday I went to work out and he marched right into the daycare room and didn't even look back. Every other time there has been about 10-15 minutes of tears. I don't think I'm going to move him into his own bed right away. But I do have a foam mattress that I could put him to sleep on if I ever needed my bed free ;o)


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## AKislandgirl

Happy Birthday Katmai and Aubrey!!!









Those pictures are great Erin. And good thinking on the Holiday babies!









Gillian: Falling in love is amazing! It is what you deserve! I know that it is scary to be falling in love when you have been through such a hard time but its OK! I had been through a horrible break up when I met DH. I "wasn't going to fall in love!" because I was trying to protect myself from getting hurt. Well, obviously I did and right away! Hope everything continues to go great Gillian!


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## Mal85

Happy birthday to our Valentine's babies!!

Gillian, I'm so happy for you! That butterflies-in-the-stomach feeling is so much fun!

Pretty sure AF is coming today. I could barely drag myself out of bed this morning and have been bloated and crampy all day. It's earlier than I was expecting. I sent my clomid prescription with DH to get it filled, here we go!

DH and I were just going to stay in tonight and watch a movie together after Owyn went to bed. But my sister called yesterday with an offer to do a childcare trade for V-Day. We kept their kids last night, so Owyn is going to go hang out with her cousins over there tonight.


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## starling&diesel

*Mckittre* ... Love the pictures! And that looks like a yummy birthday pie!

*Gillian* ... That's wonderful! It's lovely being twitterpated over someone new. My sister is falling for a new flame, and it's so exciting to watch her be so thrilled and happy and full of heartful possibilies.

*Mal* ... Have you done Clomid before, remind me? Fingers all crossed for you, my dear.

Funny chat with E about the pregnancy:

"The baby is in your tummy, right, mama?"
"Yes, honey."

"The baby come out?"

"When it's ready ... right now it's verrrrrry small. About the size of a blueberry."

[Looks at my tummy]

"In there?"

"Yep."

"A blueberry?"

"A baby, but little, like the size of a blueberry. When it's bigger, then it will be born."

So then later, she had a bowl of blueberries. She stuck one under her shirt and announced that she had a baby in there. She looked at the rest in the bowl. Stuck the whole bowl under she shirt and said, "Yook, Mama, a bowl of babies! One for you and one for Baba and one for Gamma and one for Auntie and one for Charlie and one for Zephyr and one for Milo and one for Dash! All from mama's vagina!"

I think I've forever confused her! Oh, and three of those names are pets, and one is the name of her best friend. Everyone's getting a baby!

And speaking of speaking ... she n.e.v.e.r. stops talking! She is talking or singing all the time! It sometimes drives me a little crazy. She narrates her whole day, from waking to bedtime, and sometimes she even talks in her sleep too.


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## Mal85

Starling, no I've never done clomid before. Our pregnancy with Owyn was a little unexpected, so we really didn't get into the trying part with her. It just happened. I've been holding onto my prescription, hoping I'd get pregnant this cycle and wouldn't have to fill it. Still no AF as of now, but I've been crampy on and off all day, so maybe tomorrow.

And Owyn never stops talking either! She doesn't have quite the vocabulary your Esme has, but she is constantly chattering away! She also loves to sing little made up songs to herself while she's playing and talk to her baby dolls while she's in the car. Sometimes she yells at the other cars out the window. Just constant noise coming from her mouth, even when it's impossible to understand her!


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## Everrgreen

Oh I love the little conversations Esme has. It's so fascinating to get a such a detailed glimpse into how our little ones are thinking. Royce also talks and sings a lot but it's not always understandable. The other day I went to a friends house and her fiance was still sleeping and Royce started singing 'M is asleeeeeep.... And Pete (their cat)..... Toast..... And M is asleeeeeep' lol Great song 

Mal - I hope you enjoyed your night out  Sorry that af is on her way, but fingers crossed that the clomid will do the trick for you this month!!


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## justKate

Have to admit, I had a pretty great V day planned. On Sunday, we went to the Zoo to see the lions. Then I got her Birthday/V Day outfit ready--pink hearts tutu, etc. I made her valentines for daycare. I told her about the clown that was coming for the V Day party at school. Tried to explain that it was her birthday, and that she would be two. Made deviled eggs for my work V Day luncheon. Then around 3 a.m. Aubs woke with a fever. And on Monday morning, she still had the fever, so we stayed home. No tutu, no valentines, no clown. She didn't care, but I was sort of devastated. And now I have a ton of deviled eggs in the fridge to eat.









We did get her a tricycle and a helmet, but she was not feeling well enough to really mess with it yesterday. (Radio flyer tricycle from the consignment shop: $19.99!) Today she's home with Daddy, still feverin'. Hopefully she'll be able to go to daycare tomorrow, because I don't have that much leave left. If not, I'll be home with her. Ah well.

Erin, Happy Birthday to Katmai! Looks like he had a good time. That many people in a yurt would be majorly stressful to me. But I'm glad it went well!

Mal, sorry about AF. Hopefully she'll hurrry up and come and go so you can get started on the clomid.

Aubs seems to only want to talk when other people are talking. It enrages her when Paul and I to talk to each other; I think she just wants to be in the conversation. She also talks in her sleep alot when she's in her own bed.









Gillian, yay for love! Let yourself be happy. I decided Huz was right for me after only 3 weeks or so of dating. It's sort of a double edged sword--if you don't open up, you can't get hurt, but you can't really get that closeness either. And if you do get hurt, you'll be okay. You've already been through more than anyone should have to. I'm super excited for you. Keep us posted!


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## nighten

Gah, I'm never going to get caught up on this thread.









Eowyn's second birthday was Sunday, and despite having some issues (family member passed away, in-laws weren't able to be here for the birthday, etc.), she had a good birthday, and seemed to enjoy everything.

Here's my big girl:



Someone told me that when you have little ones, the days go by so slowly, but the years go by so fast. It's so, so true.

Hope everyone's doing well, and I am going to try to keep up with the thread better.


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## Mal85

nighten, I love hearing from you! Eowyn is just beautiful and so big! You're so right too. I spend my days with multiple kiddos and a lot of times the days just drag by and seem to just run together. But somehow I've ended up with this almost-two-year-old little girl who hardly even seems like a baby anymore. When did that happen?

Still no AF, but still crampy this morning. I wish she'd just hurry up and show up!

Good news for me, I hope. I applied a while back for an online job reviewing web sites. That was about 6 weeks ago. I got an email last night with an offer to take the exam for the job! A friend of mine recently started the same job and loves it, but says it's super competitive and really hard to pass the tests. It only comes with a 6 month contract and they let a lot of people go at the end of their contract to keep the best reviewers. So, even if I get it, it could only be for 6 months. I'm really hoping it happens though. If I get it, I'm hoping I could cut back my daycare numbers and just keep my two friends' little ones who are part time and focus more on my job hunt.


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## mckittre

Nighten - we're happy to hear about Eowyn whether or not you've kept up. 

Happy birthday Aubrey! Sorry she spent it sick.

Gillian - how exciting. And scary too. I hope it continues to go so well.

Mal - good luck on the job!

Katmai is also always always always talking. His vocabulary is impressive, especially on the construction equipment front. I'm pretty sure I didn't pay much attention to the differences between backhoes, bulldozers, front end loaders, graders, cherry pickers, etc... before him. He's also been interested in people's "long names" lately (full names). I woke up this morning to hear him carefully practicing his grandmother's four-word nine-syllable full name to himself. Very cute. Does anyone else's kid reverse pronouns? These days he can say pretty much whatever he wants to, and be understood by most people, except for his utterly confusing habit of calling himself "you".

We tried not to have birthday presents for Katmai, but weren't terribly successful. His grandma got him a backhoe, which he LOVED, and wanted to spend all day out in the snow with it, despite 10 degree F windy weather. So we had to put him in his Eskimo parka.


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## justKate

Oh geez, that is too cute. How does it fasten, in the back? Or is it a pull-over?


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## nighten

That parka is adorable!


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## Thursday Girl

ditto on the cuteness of the parka (although I can't even fathom that cold)

Happy birthday to the Valentine's babies!!! Kate, your last line in the first paragraph was hilarious.

I missed the birth of my first doula client (i need 3 to get my certification) I slept right through my phone ringing, I am so so dissappointed on so may levels.

Talking- Juniper's speech is expanding every day! It's very exciting to hear what she says. She also likes to sing, a lot of it is quite high pitched (possibly from her sister singing katy perry all the time?) She calls her sesame street stuffed animals "My people" the other day she wanted them in the car and she said "Go get my people" of course I thought she said Big Bird and just got big bird (after i had her sign please) and I was utterly confused when she kept telling me to get her big bird. LOL.

Her desire to have stories read has exploded as well, i have to read to her all the time, she realizes that the words are what I am reading and when she sees letters she says "o" or "I" and points at them, Then today when I was dropping my middle daughter off at school she erased the teaches white board (which she has been trying to do for days) and did this



this is a big step in learning to read and write! i think both my other girls were a bit older when they did this and Jewel learned to read when she was 3, so I am kind of impressed and proud


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## Thursday Girl

I LOVE the age of 2!!!!


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## AKislandgirl

Love the parka!

Fun to see pictures of Eowyn too!

Kate: Is Aubrey feeling better? Bummer she was sick on her birthday.

Thursday: Great writing! She's a lefty too!

Anyone else as sad as me to hear that Mothering will no longer be a magazine? It's the only parenting magazine that makes sense to me. I'm just so sad to see it go.

Fiona talks all day long too! Must be the age! Lately she's been telling me she doesn't want to share with our daycare girl. "I no share Scout ANYMORE!" She uses her very stern voice! 

Yesterday she was looking at a picture from my wedding that has me and my sisters and two nieces. I just listened as she went through this dialog....

"Here are my friends. There is my friend Molly (my sister)! I love my friend Molly. I miss my Molly." My sister of course loved this.

So Mama's of more then one. Did you start to show way earlier with your 2nd? I'm 6 weeks now and I look as big as I did at 12-14 weeks! I'm absolutely not exaggerating. I have pictures from my pregnancy with Fiona to compare to and oh my. Twins are on my mind! Holy cow.

ETA: Erin, Fiona uses the phrase hold you when she means hold me. Otherwise she pretty much uses I and you correctly.


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## Vegan Princess

Hi ladies,

I missed so much in a couple days! We are in our new house!! Despite me coming down with the stomach flu the night before moving day! So glad that part is over with. We are pretty unpacked but still living in a bit of a sea of boxes and opening the wrong cubboards and drawers and not able to find soap for our showers, etc. But we love it so far! Makenna had a little of wanting to go back to her old house but seems to be fine. She was here a lot before we actually moved so that helped. And the cats are doing WAY better this move than the last. Maybe bc they see Makenna is ok.

Happy birthday to the valentines babies! Sorry Aubrey was sick! Makenna has been sick on her birthday both years. Sucks. We still owe her a zoo trip to make up for it.

Love all the baby chatter with the little ones. Sue - will you be having an ultrasound any time soon to find out if it's twins? Starling - they only put 1 embryo in, right?

Gillian: LOVE?! How thrilling!!! I hope he is the one! How great would that be not to have to go on lots of bad dates to find a new guy? Has Royce met him yet?

Looks like I won't be joining the october due date club. Got AF right in the middle of the stomach flu. My dr is ok with upping my dose of clomid but she won't give me the higher dose until after DH gets tested. So this month I won't be taking clomid. She did give me progesterone to take this month but I think we already decided it likely won't do the trick - that is why I started clomid. So I doubt this will be our month either. Maybe a christmas baby??

Sorry I'm missing so many of you - I had a whole long response written out yesterday and my internet went out!

Cindy


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## nighten

It will still be available online, just not in paper form.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl*
> 
> Anyone else as sad as me to hear that Mothering will no longer be a magazine? It's the only parenting magazine that makes sense to me. I'm just so sad to see it go.


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## Mal85

Erin, Owyn doesn't say the right word either. She says My instead of I. Not really sure where she picked it up. Although she loves to label all things "Mine". Maybe that's why.

Cindy, glad you've gotten all moved in! I am just not big on moving myself. I lived in the same house with my parents until I moved into this house that DH already owned when we got married. He's owned it 7 years and I've lived here... 6 years in June. We'll be looking to move sometime next year, as long as DH's promotion pulls through and I am not looking forward to the process! I'm really looking forward to having a bigger house, just not the whole packing and unpacking thing.

Got my prescription filled, now AF is still missing! BFN this morning, so she should be coming soon. I soooo don't want a December baby! My birthday is right after Christmas (I've always hated it!) and we have a million other December birthdays in the family. It's not enough to make me stop trying for a month, I just a baby whenever he/she arrives, but still...


----------



## Nillarilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nighten*
> 
> It will still be available online, just not in paper form.


Not really after the May edition I believe they will no longer be publishing the digital edition either.


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nillarilla*
> 
> Not really after the May edition I believe they will no longer be publishing the digital edition either.


Yep, just the current issue and the next which are both digital only. Such a bummer.

I have my first appt next week and will see when I can schedule an ultra sound. I'm sure she will take one look at my big belly and want to do it. Last night at yoga I mentioned to my friend that I was feeling huge for being only 6 weeks along. As soon as I took my sweatshirt off she said, "Whoa! You are so having twins!" Oh god. Not that we wouldn't be happy but just a little freaked out by everything that would entail. Still, I might just be showing really early and I shouldn't really worry till I know for sure.

Cindy: Glad you got moved in! Sorry about AF and the flu. How awful.

Mal: Crossing fingers for you still!


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## justKate

Courtney, that sounds really advanced! Aubs has no idea what is going on as far as reading and writing. She likes the sound of counting.... Hopefully Junes is learning a lot by example from her older sisters! Someone got Aubs this book for her birthday: http://www.amazon.com/Mickey-Mouse-Clubhouse-Adventure/dp/1412745993/ref=sr_1_19?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297900755&sr=1-19 Geez it's driving me crazy. I tried to get her to push the right sound button when it came up in the sentence, but no luck. I think I'm going to take the batteries out of it, or give it to a neighbor or something....

Sue, seem like I remember people showing earlier with second and subsequent pregnancies. Clomid does increase the odds of twins, right? My best friend is having twins (no meds) and it freaks me out.

Nighten, Eowyn is beautiful! All that hair. Love it!

Cindy, what a lousy time to be sick. And for AF... well here's to next month! If you don't mind sharing, what sort of testing do they do for the guys? I'm guessing a sperm count, or something to do with the quality of the sperm?

Mal, I hear you about not wanting a holiday baby. Even if you're not big on holidays, no one really wants to share with any major holiday, because you'll always have someone commenting on it. Since I've started using fertility friend, i've noticed there is this little section at the bottom that says "if you conceived this cycle, your due date would be November 2, 2010." It's neat to watch. Of course we're avoiding pg right now (although I would be happy about a pregnancy), but I saw that and thought, ooh, that's too close to my birthday. And the next month would be too close to Christmas. So I guess that gives me a little more motivation to be extra careful next cycle.

It's just so weird to me to think that my babies (assuming we have more) will be at least three years apart--probably more like 4. I always thought they would be more like 2 years. It kind of makes me sad that my kids won't be closer in age, but I try to keep that to myself because I don't want to pressure Huz into another baby before he's ready. But that's enough material for another thread....

Aubs is over the fever today, but still pretty grumpy. Hopefully tomorrow will be better. I'm really ready for a long weekend!


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## nighten

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nillarilla*
> 
> Not really after the May edition I believe they will no longer be publishing the digital edition either.


Oh gosh, I didn't realize that! I saw the article off kellymom but didn't realize it was going to go away digitally too. That stinks.


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## Everrgreen

I am also very disappointed that Mothering magazine is ending  I still have a year of subscription left, but I guess they are sending a different magazine instead. Hmm, oh well.

Kate - I also don't like that there is going to be such a huge age gap between R and future siblings. Especially if future siblings end up close in age and R is the odd one out :/

AK - Wow, that would be pretty exciting if you are having twins!! I'm so excited for you to find out 

Cindy - Great you got all moved in! Must feel very nice 

I haven't responded to everyone but I'm not feeling so great this morning. Kind of crappy actually  So things are going really well with my guy, but last night we were talking and he asked if I was sure I was completely over my ex and starting this new relationship for the right reason. He also seemed concerned that he was my frist relationship since separating. This has made me feel like crap. I know he really likes me. He has dated a lot and told me he has never felt a connection with someone like he does to me. And I really feel a connection with him as well. But now I'm doubting myself and wishing I had dated more before meeting him. Now what do I do? Should I be dating more people? It's not like I have an abundance of free-time to do that. And my friends did introduce me to 3 different guys over the last 6 months but I was never interested in going on a date with any of them. I'm actually in tears over this. Maybe I'm being too sensitive about it. He has a right to ask me questions. I just feel a bit judged. Ugh, I don't know...


----------



## justKate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gillian28*
> 
> I haven't responded to everyone but I'm not feeling so great this morning. Kind of crappy actually  So things are going really well with my guy, but last night we were talking and he asked if I was sure I was completely over my ex and starting this new relationship for the right reason. He also seemed concerned that he was my frist relationship since separating. This has made me feel like crap. I know he really likes me. He has dated a lot and told me he has never felt a connection with someone like he does to me. And I really feel a connection with him as well. But now I'm doubting myself and wishing I had dated more before meeting him. Now what do I do? Should I be dating more people? It's not like I have an abundance of free-time to do that. And my friends did introduce me to 3 different guys over the last 6 months but I was never interested in going on a date with any of them. I'm actually in tears over this. Maybe I'm being too sensitive about it. He has a right to ask me questions. I just feel a bit judged. Ugh, I don't know...


Well, I think it's good that he's being honest about his concern. The thing is, it's not like you walked out on your stbx or sabotaged the relationship. If that were the case, yeah, he should be worried. But your stbx was emotionally detaching a long time before you split, right?--I'm thinking like summer '09 with the texting all the time? So yeah, it's a wound, but it's not a fresh wound that you're trying to soothe with a random guy. Honestly, if I found myself single, I'm not the type that would date a lot. I just don't have the emotional energy to invest in a bunch of people that probably aren't worth it. So I would be really picky too. And I would be in tears over it too, but its better to do the tough work in a relationship on the front end, right? Maybe you can backpedal a little (gulp) and tell him that you're okay with slowing things down, if he thinks that's the right way to go...maybe even tell him that you're open to meeting other people. I mean, if something great came along, you could have a date with him. That doesn't mean you have to actively seek out dates. I dunno. I would be really upset too, but it is good that you guys are having the conversation.


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## Nillarilla

Yeah it totally sucks that there will be no magazine. I look forward to my digital edition each month.

Gillian, I think his questions churn you up inside because you care about him and you don't want to hurt him anymore than you want him to hurt you. This may be your first dating experience since your ex but you are a single mom and don't have time to waste on duds. I would tell him that and also that you feel the connection too. If it were me I would be willing to let things go where they may unless of course you are still banking hopes on the ex but from your posts it doesn't sound like you are. I don't think going out and dating some random guys is going to help you in this situation. You already appreciate the connection with him and maybe it's just cosmic fate that you found him right away. Do you have the answers to his questions? If you want the relationship with him for him then it is the right reason IMO and you don't have to feel guilty about that.

Courtney Wow over the writing and reading. My son is 4 and he's just now getting it. Now that he's getting it he's speeding through it at the speed of light though. I have those tag readers for my kids and they both seem to get the concept of reading though and that one word comes after the other and move the pen in the right direction.


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## AKislandgirl

Gillian: Kate and Nillarilla said it better then I could. I just want to offer a hug!


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## Everrgreen

Thank you ladies  I'm feeling a bit better now. I will be seeing him again this weekend and I want to talk to him again about this issue, I have some things I need to say about it and I think I can do a better job in person. It's so hard on the phone to have a conversation like that. He seems to have moved on from his concern today, so I don't think he's sitting there fretting over this issue. I do really really like him. And I am totally 100% over my ex. Obviously I still have some emotional scars from it, but I think everyone has emotional scars from something. Anyway, I will feel better once I can see him in person and talk about all of this...


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## mckittre

Gillian - hope it goes well this weekend. Maybe he's asking because he feels close to you and wants to make sure you're not going to hurt him. But if you feel the same, you should be able to explain, even if you haven't done lots of dating.

Sue - Hope you find out about the twins or not soon. Don't know which way you're hoping that to go!

Courtney - Wow, those hieroglyphics are impressive. Katmai's marker use is limited to great loopy scribbles for the most part. Though he's just recently showed an interest in learning to recognize letters, and knows quite a few more than I thought he did (maybe it's because someone gave him an alphabet book he liked recently?).

Katmai's little parka is great. It's a pullover, and was a gift from someone we met in a native village in the arctic - so it's handmade and has a wolverine fur ruff. We've started putting it on him a lot even when it's not quite so cold - it's extended the time he can stay outside by leaps and bounds. He was happy playing outside for nearly 5 hours the other day.


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## Everrgreen

I am also impressed with Junes' letters! Wow! Royce also just does big loopy scribbles. Although he sort of gets the concept of a line, he does one semi-straight scribble for that  All other scribbles are 'circle'.

Royce will be spending 2 nights with Grandma starting tonight! Woohoo! I am soooo excited. I desperately need the break. And it's giving me the whole weekend free to spend with my guy  Yay! I am really looking forward to having so much uninterrupted time so we can really get to know each other, talk, and do other things too... ;o)


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## starling&diesel

Have a GREAT weekend, Gillian! You deserve it!


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## AKislandgirl

Gillian! Yeah for a weekend to yourself! Have an AWESOME time Mama!

I'm battling a cold this weekend. Now that Fiona is over hers I have it. Figures. We got some fresh snow and DH took Fiona out sledding in the yard. She loves it! I'm glad we got a bit more for her to play in since it has just been icy and cold for weeks with no snow. She needs an awesome parka like Katmai's though! What an amazing work of art you will have to pass down to Lituya and then their kids!

Have a great weekend Mamas!


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## Thursday Girl

Sue, bellies do pop a lot sooner with subsequent kids. mine was 5ish months with the first, 3 months with the second and a bit sooner with Junes. But I admit the idea of twins is insanely exciting, I always wanted twins (I am a twin).

Gillian, have a great weekend that is very exciting news.

kate- get rid of the annoying noisy book, i hate all those dumb noisy toys, my kids make enough noise without them. lol.

I'm jealous of all of you moving or planning on moving, I so want to move...to a farm.

The girls have off school this week so I am heading up to Gainesville to visit some friends and just do something different. I regret that in the almost year that Hubs has been gone we haven't done anything like that. I have just realized how impressive it is that I have survived this almost year without him and with little to no help, and honestly while I did lose some of my ideals (like the type of food that i cook or the fact that I wasn't cooking and my temper) I still have managed to maintain quite a bit of what I hold as important as a mother. I yelled at my kids too much, and they didn't get the one on one time they deserve but I've done okay. I am excited too because this is the last week of it. Hubs is coming home next week and staying home for 2-3 months and cross your fingers that he gets enough business in town and state that he stays. This past year has tested me on so many levels, from nearly losing my mind to nearly calling my marriage quits. I am so happy that Hubs is coming home because despite how much I love him I wasn't going to be able to keep going with him gone and me on my own. I do regret that we have lost a whole year of saneness that we can never get back, but the experience for hubs is valuable, and it almost got us on even keel financially. Too bad we don't have any savings built up to get us through the first bit of him being back and building up his business, but I am okay (well not okay, but I can handle it) with being poor again for hubs to be home.


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## Vegan Princess

Oh Courtney - You deserve is a big hug and a big pat on the back for surviving! I can't imagine managing a household with 3 little ones on your own for so long! I'm glad your DH will be home and glad you made it through with some wisdom gained. Enjoy your trip this week!

Gillian: 2 nights with no kiddo! Hope you are enjoying. Hope you were able to clear the air with you guy too.

So we are pretty settled now! My internet barely worked until last night. Took 4 technicians out here but they finally fixed it. Anyway, the house is really coming together. It is very exciting! And Makenna loves her new room. She plays up there a lot. Her old room was so tiny we didn't keep any toys in it. Now she is constantly wanting to listen to music and dance up there. I am having fun traipsing around home furnishing stores looking for ideas and some of the pieces that we need. Though the reality is, we have to buy off of craigslist bc our furniture budget isn't all that big after buying the place. But isn't that always how it goes? 

Cindy


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## Vegan Princess

Having a nap dilema here. Lately Makenna is taking these 2-3 hour, monster naps. But then she won't go to bed at night. Both days this weekend we skipped her nap and she did fine. And went to bed at 7. DH loved how easily she went down and enjoyed having our the evening back. But I'm not ready to drop naps...and if she is napping for 3 hours, she must still need the nap, right? Today I let her sleep for an hour and 40 minutes and she still was tough to put down. Didn't get truly asleep until 9. So odd - she never used to nap this long!

Gillian: How was the weekend???

How are the prego mamas feeling?

Cindy


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## Mal85

Cindy, Owyn is doing the same thing here too. She used to nap 1.5 hours, tops and was ready for bed by 7:30-8 every night. Now, she wants to sleep 2.5 hours everyday and be up until 9. She skipped her nap on Sunday because we were out all day, and passed out at the dinner table around 7 that night. I'm just going with it for now. She plays happily even if she is up later than normal. It's got her back to sleeping past 7 in the morning, so I'll take that! I do think there are a lot of days she can go without a nap, but I'm not ready to drop it yet so I'll deal with the later bedtime instead.

AF still hasn't shown up for me and it's now CD 46. My doc called in a prescription for progesterone to kick start a period, so I'm starting that today.

Owyn is doing well. She got to spend loads of time with Daddy this weekend while I was gone running a ton of errands and he had off work for the holiday yesterday and actually made an effort to spend some of the day with just her. Last week, I put in the movie Annie for her when I desperately needed her out from under my feet for a few minutes and I think I've created an Annie-monster! Every morning, the first thing she asks for is that movie. I think it's cute that she likes it so much (it was my favorite when I was a kid, too), but I think we've watched it 100 times the last few days. I'm done with Annie now! Oh well, I guess it's better than Spongebob.


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## Everrgreen

My weekend was awesome  Royce did excellent with my mom, she said he asked for me and for 'num num' a few times but accepted that I was away. I'm glad it went well and I can get a free weekend more often. The break was amazing. And things with my new 'boyfriend' (that is so weird to say) are going well. He is just such a great person and I feel so lucky to have met him. With the relationship becoming more serious and meaningful it is bringing up some major fear and self esteem issues in me. I'm trying to work through that. I haven't introduced him to Royce yet as he doesn't feel ready. He's really worried about it and I don't want to rush it. Hopefully soon though because it's hard to always have to arrange babysitting everytime I want to see him.

Cindy - I have a nap issue with Royce too, if he naps he goes to bed late. I'm trying to get him to go to bed at a more reasonable time and in his own room, which means trying to get him to skip the nap (it's hard to do!). But I am enjoying the little breaks in the evening. He has just been so demanding and clingy that I am getting totally worn out. He never makes it through the night though and ends up back in bed with me. Where he then climbs on me, claws at me, kicks, demands 'num num', etc. I think he needs to be out of my bed entirely because I end up waking up in the morning already worn out from him. Not a good thing!

Courtney - *hugs* What a difficult year you've had!! It will be so nice for you to have your husband back around, and I hope he is able to stay close by! You are doing an amazing job - you should feel very proud of that!!

AK - Hope you feel better soon!


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## AKislandgirl

Gillian: so glad that you had a great weekend! What an amazing feeling to have a whole weekend to yourself! I can't imagine! I hope things continue to go well with your new man! 

Courtney: What a year you have had! You are an amazing strong Mama! I sure hope your DH gets to stick close to home from now on.

Mal: Hope things get going for you! I'm sure you are anxious to get the clomid going. Hope the progesterone does the trick!

Naps: Fiona is sort of dropping naps here and there but tends to fall apart when she does. I'd say that most of the time she does still need a nap. Some days though I go to nurse her down and fall asleep in bed with her. Half an hour or so later I wake up and she is still nursing and when I try to unlatch her she sits up and says, "I'm ready to get up now Mama! Come on!" Uggh! I do have to say its nice to have to take only 10 minutes to get her to bed at night on those nights.

I had my first prenatal today. She brought in the ultra sound machine to see how many babies are in there.... just 1! I feel a strange sense of relief and disappointment all at the same time. Really though I was happy to see one healthy baby (little blob at this point!) and we could see the heart flicker away. It's a pretty low powered ultra sound so she wants me to do one at the hospital next week with better measurements and clearer picture. That one has audio so I can hear the heartbeat instead of just see it! Can't wait!


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## justKate

Sorry for not doing more personals. Sue, I'm relieved (for you!) that there's only one, but I can imagine the mixed feelings. Courtney, I hope you get some relief while DH is home. I can't imagine managing everything alone, especially with three!

I'm blue today, for no reason really, except that I've been playing on MDC all day and feeling the baby itch. Huz, of course, isn't ready, so not ready means not ready. Probably has something to do with me getting my period (which I'm happy about, don't get me wrong), Aubs turning two, and us still not knowing where we're moving in THREE MONTHS. Ah well.

Its time to go home; 58 days of work left. I have to try hard not to pick a fight over something stupid with Huz tonight. It always happens when i'm in this mood, but I just. can't. help it. MUST TRY to be nice!


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## mckittre

Gillian - glad the weekend went well! How exciting...

Courtney - Wow. I can't imagine how hard it would be to do everything with 3 all alone. Or even with one alone. I'm very lucky to have a husband that works at home and a next door grandma. Hope you are all together again going forward.

AK - good that there's a healthy baby in there! I'd be relieved with one if it were me, but I can understand the disappointment too.

Kate - I hope you'll find out where you're going soon - maybe that will lower the stress some?

We have nap issues here as well, and have for quite awhile (months?). He won't go down at home - not at all, not for any time, not with any technique. So we have to either walk him to sleep (he'll get 1/2 hr to 1 1/2 hrs sometimes this way), or skip the nap altogether. About a third of the time he gets a hiking nap, and the rest he skips it. Never end up getting him to bed quite early enough though. It's kind of a rough transition. It might help if I could get dinner ready earlier so he could go down before 8, but somehow (despite the above mentioned husband and grandma) it rarely happens.

On a more fun note, if anyone's interested, I just wrote an essay for my blog about being a wilderness parent for the second year - has a few videos and some fun pictures on it as well: Second Year in the Woods


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## Vegan Princess

Erin: Loved the blog! Once again, I am so impressed! Nursing while snowshoeing! 

Sue: Phew - so glad it's only 1! I can imagine a bit of a let down on one level - though I'm sure the relief outshines it. And how cool to see a heart beat already!!

Mal: I hope the progesterone gets this show on the road! We haven't introduced movies yet. Just short videos.

Kate: Hope the bad mood passes before you take it out on DH. I would be so on edge knowing I was moving so soon and not knowing where! Ah well, at least you know you will need to pack and you know you will not be working. So just go with it. And it will be baby time soon enough!

Gillian: So glad the weekend went well! How is Royce taking to his own room? Makenna has been in her own room since 6 months and still almost never makes it through the night there! She did sleep until 6 last night in her crib and was then up for the day....but the 2 nights before that she was in our bed by 10! I'm hoping once the last of her teeth are in, she will sleep better. I am probably fooling myself. LOL.

We are enjoying the parks so close to our new house. Had a nice day of no rain today and hit 2 of them. So glad we chose the smaller house, where we can walk to everything!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Erin: Love the blog and seeing the videos of Katmai! What a rich life you are giving your children! I just love it!

I'm starting to stress about Fiona's sleep issues. It drives me crazy that she still wakes up a minimum of 3 times per night. How am I going to deal with her waking up and a newborn?! Thank god we have time. My major goal in life is getting Fiona to sleep through the night... wish me luck!


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## justKate

NEWS! It's Yorktown, VA! I'm feeling pretty neutral about it, just relieved to know where we're going. Now i get to start the research.... We'll probably move some time around the end of May or June.

Feeling much better today. Took magnesium last night and that seemed to relieve this hellacious period I've had. Huz is going to be at school late this evening so I'm making omeletts for dinner. Looking forward to an easy evening. I took a leap and had a gentle baby talk with Huz last night. Basically told him that I would like to TTC this summer, and why it is important to me and why it is good timing. It went okay. I didn't get a lot of buy-in but he did seem more open to it than before. So we'll see.

Sleep is difficult for us right now. Aubs has decided that she wants to sleep on top of Daddy, and that bothers him. She's a pretty restless sleeper. We still have the toddler bed in our room, but lately she's been putting her pillow on our bed and saying "mine bed." I don't want to argue with her, because i don't want the toddler bed associated with anything negative. Hopefully just being patient will work...I'll start trying harder when I'm done working and we're settled in the new place. Right now I've been putting her to sleep (laying with her in whichever bed) at 8:00 on the nose. I'm trying to make a habit of it, because she is waaaay too difficult at 6:30 when I wake her up if she hasn't gotten at least that much sleep. It's definitely making the mornings easier.

Gillian, how are you transitioning Royce to his own bed/room? I'm always thinking that other moms might have a secret I missed....

Mal, any sign of AF yet?

Cindy, glad you're getting settled. I like the idea of being able to walk to things--at least a park or pond or something. When we move, we're going to try to simplify a lot and choose location over size. Really, it doesn't make any sense for us to have 3 bedrooms when we spend all of our time in the kitchen, living room, and one bedroom. We lived on the water in FL, and it was really good for the soul. Maybe we can find something like that again, or some land where I can have chickens and a bigger garden.

Speaking of garden, Courtney, you have chickens, right? Do you garden too? I put broccoli and cabbage in this winter and it did NOTHING. But it was fun. Live and learn, I guess!


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## starling&diesel

Finally, *justKate*! Congrats on being able to get excited about the move! Whoo hoo! And congrats on having the baby talk. I notice you've linked to your ff, so you do mean business!

*Sue*, I know that you were excited about twins, but yay for one healthy one! We saw our babe and heard the heartbeat on Monday. So exciting! And yes, thee is time for adjusting sleep and dealing with other issues before the babes come, but I don't know ... doesn't seem like enough time! I don't want weaning, or sleeping in her own bed to be associated with the new baby. Argh. Dunno. Has me stressed.

*Gillian* ... So exciting that you had a great weekend and that you have a BOYFRIEND! Are you actually using boyfriend/girlfriend terms, or not yet? And that is awesome that Royce did so well.

*Cindy* ... I'm glad to hear that you're content with your new house! That is a great way to feel after a move. Now show us some inside pics!!!

*Mal*, I hope your cycle gets on track soon!

*Erin* ... I heart your life!


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## Everrgreen

So, I've been dumped  I am hurting so badly right now. I'm so confused. The weekend went so well, he introduced me as his girlfriend to friends, he talked about how much he was falling for me, and talked about introducing me to his family, etc. etc. etc. Then yesterday he seemed to be avoiding me and just seemed a bit cold. Today he finally told me he had been doing some thinking and he thinks we got too serious too fast. He said that with me having a son and going back to school he's not sure if I really will have time for a relationship (things he knew before we even met in person!). So I guess we are taking a break, he has to be away for work for a few weeks, and he's going to think things over. This is so awful. I just don't understand. I wish he had 'thought things through' before we met, instead of waiting until now when I've fallen for him. I don't ever want to date again.


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## starling&diesel

Oh, Gillian! I'm so sorry to hear that! How confusing, indeed ... will you wait for him or do you think you want to end it too now that you know how he feels? What a chicken. So sorry. And after such a lovely weekend.


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## nighten

I've been reading the latest posts (still hopelessly behind on the older ones), and feel like I'm slowly starting to get to know everyone again, but I couldn't not chime in with hugs and kind thoughts, *Gillian*. I'm so sorry you're going through this.









Forgive me if I'm slow to respond to other personal updates. I'm working my way back in gradually.









---

Eowyn hasn't napped but a handful of times in the last two months. Guinevere gave up her regular naps at 22 months, but still catnapped (15 minutes or so) for a few weeks after. The bedtime routine dropped much earlier and got much easier. We started doing baths earlier too (before dinner) and that helped perk her up if she was dragging in late afternoon. Catnaps worked for her, and didn't mess with bedtime.

So I tried doing the same with Eowyn, but even a catnap affects bedtime for her, so now unless we're in the car and there's no way to prevent it, we just distract her if she starts getting sleepy, or I give her a snack. And she's fine and happy, and falls asleep super fast at night. She's still not sleeping as long as I'd like (she wakes up early and wants to nurse nonstop, which makes me a little cranky as I can't sleep during nursing anymore for some reason -- she'll only fall back to sleep deeply if she's nursing, so sometimes we're up earlier than I'd like).

But overall, I'm happy to see naps gone. The trade-off is well worth it, for us, in having an easier and earlier bedtime. But, we've been spoiled because she's been a really good sleeper from the get-go (don't hate me; Guinevere was a terrible sleeper for nearly 3 years), so having to deal with a late/difficult bedtime isn't something I'm willing to do.

Anyway. Last night she grabbed a pair of Guinevere's panties (clean) from the laundry basket, and put them on over her pajama bottoms. She was so proud of herself and her "banny" (panties). She had them on for probably an hour before I realized she'd put them on sideways, so the crotch was on her hip, and the leghole around her waist.


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## Nillarilla

Oh Gillian I'm soooo sorry. Hugs to you!


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## Mal85

I think we're headed towards dropping that nap. Or at least, limiting how long she sleeps. Bedtime has been a nightmare all week. We're spending well over an hour every night getting her to sleep. No fun for any of us!

nighten, Owyn has a fascination with panties too. My sister gave her a bunch of underwear and I let her wear them in the evening after the daycare kids have gone home. We get a lot of messes, but she's starting to learn. I have noticed, she doesn't like to pee with nothing on. If she needs to pee, she'll put on some panties just to pee in them, but she'll hold it if she's naked. Weird. So, once the weather warms up, we're going to stick the potty seat in the play area and have lots of naked time. It's weird because she knows what it means to go potty. She knows where she's supposed to go potty (she'll run towards the bathroom if she has to go), but she won't actually go on the toilet! She'll stand in front of it and pee on the floor! I don't get it!

This weekend we are turning her bedroom into a private play space. She's really been getting more and more mean with some of the daycare kids and I think it has a lot to do with the fact that she doesn't have a space or even a toy in this house that is only hers. The daycare is set up in our main living area, where all of Owyn's toys and things are. She has always had to share everything she has with them. She didn't mind as a baby, but I think now it's getting to her. So, we're going to rearrange some furniture in her room to make room for her table and chairs, we'll also put her kitchen in there when she gets it for her birthday next week. I'm going to sort out toys in the toy box, take out anything that has been given to her as gifts and put them in her room. I'm hoping to teach her that if she needs some alone time away from the daycare kids, she can go in her room and play with her things. Her room is right next to the living room, so she'll still be close to all of us, it's not like she'll be banished away to a different part of the house all alone. She's really into drawing and anything to do with art lately, so I'm going on the hunt for some cheap art supplies to make an art space on the table DH made for her. Of course, all this means I need to bulk up on daycare supplies as well, things that will be used only for daycare. I really hope it helps with some of her frustration!

Gillian: I'm so sorry that happened with the new guy! Maybe he's just being careful with his feelings. I hope you can work something out and be at peace with whatever happens. You've had such a rough go with your ex, you deserve some happiness!


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## justKate

Geez, Gillian. WTH. I'm just going to bash him, because seriously, WTH. It sounds like commitment issues to me. To let it move along, then suddenly yank back is just weird. And not really give you an explanation...if things are right, you make it work around kids and school and schedules. That's just what grown ups do. It sounds to me like the reason he's dated a lot is that he's immature. I know it hurts, but better to find out sooner than later. Your life is too full to let anyone screw around with it, so good riddance to him. Its okay to greive, but remember he's the one that's losing out.









Mal, I think that's a good idea for Owyn's room. The whole "mine" and "sharing" thing is really tough, so it will be good for her to have some things she doesn't have to share. Does everyone else have a room set up for their little one? Aubs has a room, technically, but she doesn't really think of it as hers. It has a dresser, bookshelf, a fouton, and her puzzles. Mostly we store her clothes in there and use it to change her and get her dressed. The fouton is for guests. Her toddler bed is in our room, and it's crowded. All of the toys are in the living room. I'd like to try to move her into a room when we move, but I'm wondering if it will be too traumatic. We'll see.


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## Everrgreen

Yeah I don't really get it. I guess it does sound like he's freaking about the commitment thing. Kind of ironic considering he was so worried about whether I was ready for a serious relationship. He has had long-term relationships before (I think he's had a few 2-3 year relationships). I am seeing him tonight as I left my skates in his car, so maybe I will get more of an explanation. I'm really hoping that he really just needs to slow things down. I hope he isn't breaking up with me completely. But this has really hurt me. I don't know what to think of it. It sucks 

Anyway..

Royce has his own room which up until recently only had toys in it. He has a small box of toys in the living room too, but pretty much everything is in his playroom. He now also has a bed in there (err.. a foam camping mattress on the floor...) He has been fine to go to sleep in there - he still nurses to sleep though. And he doesn't make it through the night ever. I enjoy having some alone time and he is getting so annoying to sleep next to (kicking, hitting, pulling on me, screaming and crying for 'num num'..) So I think I will be continuing to get him to sleep on his own. Eventually he'll need a real bed, but the camping mattress is pretty comfy 

And now I'm off to survive the afternoon... :'(


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## AKislandgirl

*Gillian:* I can't believe it. I'm so sorry this is happening. You so deserve happiness! Big hugs Mama!

*Kate:* I'm so glad you finally know where you are moving! And yeah for the baby talk. I hope that happens soon for you!

*Mal:* I think setting up Owyn's room as her own sounds great! Fiona has such a hard time with sharing too. She screeches at the top of her lungs when our day care girl goes for anything that Fiona might also want. Ugh. It's been really challenging. Basically other then her lovies (a stuffed tiger and her blankie) nothing else is just hers. I don't know though because siblings have to share everything. At least for us daycare will be over soon. I'll be doing child care through the end of May and then that is it!

I'm definitely more relieved then disappointed about the twin thing. I'm just so happy to have seen that heartbeat! Woo Hoo! Silly things like our car not able to have 3 carseats and the tinyness of our house that were nagging me before I knew seem just fine now!

We have been reading Are you my Mother lately and DH told Fiona to "listen to your Mother" the other day. Now Fiona is experimenting with calling me Mother. She tries to fit it in as many times as possible. It's so funny! "Moder, I want water please Muder. Tank you Muder. Good water Muder" It totally cracks me up when I ask her to do something and she says "yes Muder" as if we were this strict yes maam kind of family! Silly girl!


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## justKate

Nighten, that is too funny about the panties. I was wondering if it would make potty training easier to have a sibling around that uses the potty. Right now Aubs recognizes that babies wear diapers, and tells me when she needs a clean one, but isn't interested in actually using the potty. I ask her, but she says "no dank you."







I'm not going to actively encourage until we've moved and are settled.

I'm really relieved about the baby talk. We've been charting to avoid for a little while, and the plan is to keep that up until after May 15 (well that's my plan) because I'd rather not have a baby during the holidays or right around Aubs' b-day. Of course every time we dtd I secretly hope that I randomly O when I'm not expecting it.... But hopefully there will be a 2012 baby for me. Now that we're going to VA, there's a lot more opportunity for the Gparents to help out, since they'll be about 3 1/2 hours away. They're thrilled, of course.

Sue, we're going through something similar--I'm trying to each Aubs our names, and she LOVES IT. And any time there are two of something, the little one is the baby and the big one is the mommy. I'm sort of surprised that it took her that long to make that connection.

So as far as development--do your little ones run? I mean like real people? I've noticed that Aubs still runs like a baby, and I was wondering about that. You know, she leans waaay forward, moves her legs really fast, and then falls down after 5-10 feet. It seems like our neighbor and the other daycare kids are more coordinated, but maybe they're just older. Not that it matters, just curious.


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## starling&diesel

*Rooms* ... Esmé has a room, but the only thing it's used for is for us to dtd on the nice double mattress! She has her clothes in there too, but that's it. Even her cloth dipes are in our dresser.

*Naps* ... I'm dismayed to hear about all the nap trouble! Do they give it up so soon? Yikes! Esmé still goes down pretty easily for hers. From about 130-3pm. And then she goes to bed at around 915pm and is asleep around 945pm on most nights. And last night she slept in her bed until 7am! Whoo hoo! I woke up in a panic thinking she must've perished in the night!

*Running* ... Esmé is a little Chariots of Fire runner. She runs everywhere. And is quite good at it! Good thing we live on the ground floor because she likes to run lengths of the apartment every night before dinner and would drive anyone below us crazy.

*Potty* ... Esmé understands it all, but wants nothing to do with it. I'm considering bribes. Anyone have any opinions about that?

*Gillian* ... I hope you get some more answers this afternoon! And your skates back!


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## mckittre

Gillian - Lots of hugs. How sad, and confusing! I hope you get some answers soon.

Rooms - Obviously, in a one room house, we have nothing of the sort (though Katmai does have a bed - a packraft on the floor). I figure we'll try to increase space by adding some kind of loft when the kids are old enough to climb up and down safely. And eventually, when they're old enough to really need privacy and not need supervision, maybe an outbuilding?

Potty - We're leveraging the younger sibling here ("Lituya's too little to pee in the potty, but you can!") and basically going naked bum around the house. Going OK so far, but he doesn't always get there in time. Haven't tried underwear yet, and we're a long ways from doing anything out of the house.

Running - who knows? There's really nowhere to run here (outdoors is snowy and requires more cautious locomotion, indoors is small), but it seems like he can run fine when he's in a large building.


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## nighten

I think it's partly watching her older sister on the big potty (Eowyn doesn't like the little toddler potty -- she wants to sit on the big potty too! So we've got a potty ring insert seat thingy for her), and partly a personality thing.

We don't do bribes with her at this point, but did end up using a potty chart and stickers, and yogurt-covered raisins/pretzels, etc., as rewards for Guinevere. But she was 3.5 and I was DONE with dealing with diapers, and by then she was physically able to pull down her pants, and know when she needed to pee/poop. The biggest thing I realized was that potty training is like learning any other skill, like writing. It doesn't matter if a child knows all her letters -- if she's not able to hold a pencil and write the letters, or isn't ready to try it, forcing it only leads to frustration for everyone. Potty training is no different, at least in my experience.

So we're taking a very hands-off approach with Eowyn. I encourage her, and follow her lead, but haven't really buckled down with any of it yet, because she's not ready yet.


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## Everrgreen

Well after talking to 'my guy' things aren't quite as devastating but still crappy. He does really like me but he was feeling a bit overwhelmed with how serious things were getting. And then he found out he has a major work trip coming up and possible more after that. I know it sounds like a lame excuse but I feel confident that he is telling the truth. He really does seem to like me a lot and seems very conflicted about what to do with this situation. He said that because of all the travel he just can't make any promises or commitments. And he understands that with our relationship being so new that a lot of travel could mean the end. He has left it up to me whether I want to just end things now, or keep dating until he leaves (2 weeks), or just be friends until his travel settles down. I don't know what to do. I really like him and I feel we have a really amazing connection. But obviously the travel is going to make things so complicated. Blah! This just sucks  I guess my thoughts are to see him again before he goes, enjoy being together for now, and then just see what happens when he gets back from his travel.. I don't think there's an easy answer for this :/

Anyway...

Potty - I've put it on hold until the spring, Royce was getting very stubborn about it and it was becoming a very negative thing. We will try again when the weather is nicer.

Running - He definitely runs, he's pretty coordinated with the physical stuff (despite being one of the last to walk on this thread )

Naps - I am trying to encourage Royce to drop the nap so that he will go to bed early. When he naps he's up late. But it's hard because he can get very tired/cranky in the late afternoon.


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## AKislandgirl

Gillian: sorry for all the confusion. I hope you can work things out if that is what you want. DH and I spent *a lot* of time apart in our early years of dating and continue to do so now every summer. If its meant to be travel shouldn't matter, IMHO. Hopefully he is just being cautious and guarding his feelings a bit. Good luck Mama!

Fiona is a pretty good runner. She doesn't run as fast as some kids I've seen but she has running down for sure. We do a fun playgroup every Friday where the kids run around a big gym, play with balls, and ride bikes. It's really the only place she can let loose like that since much of the outside is icy and our hall is pretty short! I'm so looking forward to Spring!


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## Mal85

Gillian, I'm glad you got to talk to him again, but doesn't sound like it cleared much up.







Enjoy the next couple of weeks, que sera sera!

Today was my due date with Owyn, so I'm starting to feel nostalgic. I went to classes today and got lots of very sad looks from my professors. I had an appointment the next day and got even more sad looks from all the nurses. Didn't help with my frustration! We're giving her the kitchen on her birthday. I hope she loves it, but we don't have any kitchen accessories for her. Family members have said they're getting those for her, but her party isn't until the weekend after her birthday, so she'll have to wait. I'm sure she'll still have fun with it!


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## Vegan Princess

Ok, I need advice on sharing. Especially from you moms who do daycare. I watch my friend's little girl who is 2 months older 1x/week (and my friend watches Makenna once in exchange). This week and last have been AWFUL! Makenna won't share ANYTHING. Wining, yelling, crying and driving me nuts the entire 3 hours. A few times I was able to get her to be willing to take turns or share but mostly there was no teaching or reasoning. I know there has to be a way to deal with this. I felt so bad for the other little girl. And my friend said Makenna isn't like that at her house. Probably bc it's not her own toys. Perhaps it is different than with daycare bc your little ones have had to share their toys from the beginning? I have been watching this girl for a few months though and it is only recenlty that it has become such an issue. We have been reading books about it and talking about it and she gets happy and proud when she remembers how she felt when she shared but reminding her of that doesn't always work.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Sounds very frustrating! I don't have any experience with that, BUT I find that things go smoother for Royce if he is warned ahead of time. So, for example the night before I would start talking about how 'friend' is coming and Royce will get to share his toys and it's going to be so much fun. And then again in the morning, I would remind him again that his friend is coming and he gets to share his toys and it's going to be so much fun, etc. etc. Giving a 'head's up' has worked with other issues for him. Not sure if it will help, but it's an idea


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## Mal85

Cindy, we're dealing with this a lot right now. Owyn is very into what belongs to her and what belongs to someone else. I'm not real successful yet as she still has multiple screaming fits a day over sharing. But I watch two other 2 year olds and she's not the only one the gets bent out of shape about sharing. For us, I work less on actually sharing and playing together and more on turn taking. Owyn loves when I tell her it's "Owyn's turn", so it helps a lot when I remind her that it's "L's turn" with whatever they're fighting over. Owyn still gets upset, but doesn't attack the other kid if I tell her it's their turn. She just throws herself on the floor instead.







It's really hard and, like I said, we have several tantrums a day, but I'm accepting that it's just part of this age. It's not easy and I have to keep a very close eye, which is kind of frustrating because we had gotten into a good habit of free play and I could go wash dishes in the other room or something. But not now. I have to take everyone with me if I want to step into the other room, especially with Owyn being a biter. She really can't be left unsupervised.


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## Everrgreen

Royce peed on the potty all by himself! Yay! Although I'm sure it ws just a one time thing, not something I can expect from now on  He had just finished his bath so he was naked and he pulled out the potty, sat down, and peed. I made a huge deal out of it so maybe that will help encourage him  I'm really not going to do anything proactive until the spring though.

Lately Royce has been fulfilling the definition of 'terrible two's'. I think I might lose my mind. So much crying, whining, freaking out. ARGHHH!!!! I'm going to my moms again this weekend because I need help!


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## AKislandgirl

Yeah Royce! That is awesome!

Man we had a rough night. We've had several good nights in a row in our night weaning but last night around 5am she totally lost it. Screaming and hitting. She was so pissed I wouldn't nurse her. Oh it was miserable. I got up this morning and just cried as DH told me I'm not damaging her for life and not letting her cry it out since I'm still with her. It was brutal. I sure hope it is not that bad tonight. I can't take it.


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## Mal85

Hey ladies. Haven't had a chance to read the latest posts, just wanted to pop in and let you guys know what's up.

I got a BFP this morning! I'm really excited but also really worried. I've been taking the Provera for 7 days. It says right on the packet that if it's taken in early pregnancy it can cause birth defects. I test before I started taking it and for 2 days after because I was so paranoid about it, they were all BFNs. Now this! I just can't decide how I should feel right now. I've already called the doc and talked to a nurse. I'm waiting to hear back from them.

DH will be home for lunch in the next few minutes and I just don't know if I should tell him or if I should wait until I hear from the doc. Wish me luck.


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## AKislandgirl

Mal! This is so great! I'm so excited for you!!! Saying some prayers that everything is OK. I think you should tell DH... how can you keep it in?! Woo Hoo!!!!














Keep us posted on what the Doc says!


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## justKate

Yay Mal!!!

I think baby will be fine--it seems like the birth defect is pretty mild, and it was only 7 days--baby probably wan't even implanted for a few of those, right? Keep us posted and try not to worry!

Go Royce! I'm considering putting Aubs in pull-ups in the evenings, just to see if she can figure it out. But poop in a pull up is awful. I dunno. I'll probably just wait until we get moved and settled.

Sue, it is heart wrenching, but Fiona's going to be okay. She's mad, but she's going to be okay. It's not like weaning a 2 month old that can't understand, you know? I think it's harder on us, really.


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Yay!!! Congratulations!! Let us know what the doc says about the provera, fingers crossed that it's all fine


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## Mal85

I heard back from the doc. They said it should be fine. The birth defects are rare, like you said Kate. They want me to go in today and Wednesday to get blood drawn and make sure my hcg levels are rising like they should. I'm trying to put my worries aside and let myself be excited. I made my first prenatal appointment for two weeks from now. I'll save my millions of questions for that and try to just enjoy this.

I don't feel pregnant yet. I took the test because I noticed my uterus felt... enlarged (if that's the right word for it) the last several days. I also just didn't feel like my period was coming so I was curious. The positive immediately showed up and it's a DARK line, so no doubt about it! I was gonna post a pic, but I can't find the camera right now. So, it'll have to wait until later.

What a crazy week! My dad's step-brother died unexpectedly over the weekend. That same day we were at my sisters and my oldest sister fell down the stairs and thought she broke her wrist. Turned out to be a bad sprain, but still very painful. My BFP today and Owyn's birthday tomorrow. She has two birthday parties this weekend and we'll have a funeral this week... Just hoping the pregnancy exhaustion doesn't kick in this week!


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## mckittre

Congratulations Mal! Thinking healthy sticky baby thoughts for you. I bet everything will be fine.


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## starling&diesel

Yay, Mal! Over in the Queer Conceptions board we always celebrate a bfp with dancing veggies ... so here you go!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Provera is just progesterone. It is the same thing they prescribe to women to help sustain a pregnancy! I believe Starling is taking it and I am taking it right now to help extend my luteal phase and help me get and stay pregnant. My only concern would be going off of it abruptly. Bc usually the rise and then drop in progesterone levels is what signals you to bleed. So you should ask about that! I don't think it shoud cause birth defects. TONS of moms take is through their entire first trimester. Anyhow, CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! You didn't even need the clomid!!! So fantastic!!!!

Now I am the only one left who has been trying and is still not prego! Argh! DH goes for his test on Wednesday and then after that my doc will call in the prescription for the higher dose of clomid. I took soy isoflavones this month which is supposed to be like an herbal clomid...and my doc has me on presciption progesterone. I think I ovulated a couple days ago but I'm not so hopeful that this will be our month. I am, however, hopeful that next month (on the higher dose of clomid) will be!!!

Gillian: Yay Royce!!!!! Awesome. I am sorry you are having a hard time. I know the crying fits well.

Today we had playgroup here and Makenna had no problem sharing. I think bc it was so chaotic with so many kids here. Tomorrow the little girl I watch will be here - I am praying it goes better than the last couple weeks! Thankfully it won't be raining so we can go to the park - not a whole lot to fight about there.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Mal* ... It's true, I'm taking 300 mg of progesterone a day. I did for my first trimester with Esmé too. I hope it helps to hear that! So excited for you!


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## justKate

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess* 

Now I am the only one left who has been trying and is still not prego! Argh! DH goes for his test on Wednesday and then after that my doc will call in the prescription for the higher dose of clomid. I took soy isoflavones this month which is supposed to be like an herbal clomid...and my doc has me on presciption progesterone. I think I ovulated a couple days ago but I'm not so hopeful that this will be our month. I am, however, hopeful that next month (on the higher dose of clomid) will be!!!










I'll keep you company, even though we're not TTC. I'm charting to avoid but secretly hoping for an "oops." Not that I would lie about when I'm fertile, but I'm hoping Huz will disregard it, or I'll pop an egg at like CD6 and take us by surprise. Who knows? In the meantime I'll mourn the arrival of AF with you!

Starling, what about this banana guy?







Seems unfair to leave him out just because he's a fruit.


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy, I'm very hopeful for you as well! I know your time will come. The good news is that you know your body can get pregnant and maintain a healthy pregnancy. It's only a matter of time! I sure hope this next cycle of clomid does it for you. Besides giving a sperm sample do you have to do any other tests? I had to do a post coital test last time. Hopefully you get all the tests and info done here shortly. Sending you lots of baby dust!


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## Mal85

Cindy, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!!

Today has been soooo stressful. Thank god it's naptime! My friend's son is here. He had an ear infection and bad cold last week and has been wheezy all day today and acts like it hard to breathe. He's also not eating more than an ounce at a time, has refused all solids today. Poor guy! Of course all of this has made him extra crabby (he's usually my crabbiest one already), so I just haven't had the time to make today special for Owyn's birthday like I wanted to. I made her favorite breakfast and her favorite lunch and we gave her her birthday present this morning. But, I've been distracted with the sickly baby.









I did get a call from my midwife and my numbers look good so far. Progesterone is normal and I'm definitely pregnant! Now, just keep your fingers crossed that they'll have doubled by tomorrow.

Today's stressful day has really made me think about what I'm going to do when the baby comes. I have to cut back somewhere. I am still job hunting, but nothing is looking promising so far. If I keep things how they are, once the baby is here I will be wayyyy overwhelmed. By then I'd have Owyn (almost 3 by then), full-time almost 3 year old, her baby brother who will be about 7 months old by then, semi-full-time 1.5 year old, part time 3 year old and part time 1.5 year old. I so can't handle that with my own newborn! The full time will-be-almost-3 year old has been here since the day I opened, so they kind of have dibs on a spot. But I'm thinking I'll let go of the semi-full-time 1.5 year old and maybe the part-time 1.5 year old. The part time 3 year old is very flexible and a good friend's daughter, so she'd be easy to keep on. Ugh... I wish I could just quit and only have my own kids here!! No more infants, for sure!!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Yay for good numbers!! I'm sorry you couldn't give Owyn your undivided attention on her birthday. At least they don't have high expectations at this age!

Well DH went for his test this morning. Hopefully we'll get the results soon. I feel like a hurdle has been passed - so now I can get my clomid again and if something is wrong w/him then we will know our next steps.

Sue: Post coital test? That sounds blech. Right now I am seeing a gyn, not an infertility specialist. She wanted the SA and said she would hold off a few more months before I have to have my tubes checked.

So Makenna took a huge poop in the tub last night. DH was of course out with his friends. It was so nasty cleaning that up! Definitely a new low of motherhood. LOL. Potty training can't come soon enough!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

OH Makenna! yuck!

Fiona peed in her potty unprompted last night just before her bath! Yeah! I'm so proud of her!  The unprompted pees are very rare around here.

Cindy, The post coital test is not fun. Neither is the hysterosalpingogram (getting tubes checked) but both can give you great info. I did not see an infertility specialist either... none here. Just my family practice Dr who consulted with the specialist in Anchorage over my case.

Mal: I hope you get through this stressful week ok. I'm sorry about the loss in your family. I hope it helps that you have a new life beginning! And yes, you need to cut back those daycare numbers somewhere Mama! Too much!!!


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## Mal85

Oh Cindy, how yucky! We haven't had a poop in the tub yet, knock on wood! (although DH usually gives her a bath, so it'd most likely happen to him, lol!)

I did my second blood test yesterday and go the call today. My hCG levels had doubled and progesterone was still normal! Everything looks great so far, keeping our fingers crossed that this little guy stays put!

I was off today for the funeral. It was nice to have a day off, but wish it could be under better circumstances. It was an unexpected death, which always makes it harder. He has three daughters all around my age, I went school with all of them. I can't imagine how they feel losing their dad so young... none of them have even gotten married or started families yet. Very tragic.

One more day this week, then birthday celebrations all weekend! I have ALL my daycare kiddos scheduled to come tomorrow, so it'll be a loooong day. One is leaving a little early though and I have a friend coming over to help me during the busy time of day (lunch prep, eating/clean-up and getting down for naps). Hopefully that'll help the day go by faster!


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## Nillarilla

Congratulations Mal! So sorry for your loss as well.

Cindy I'm sending fertile vibes your way.

We have the terrible two's here too. OMgoodness is she ever wild. She's just started this thing where if she's mad at you she'll try to rake her claws across your face and neck. Poor ds has many scratch marks on him. She cries her little head off and screams no at almost everything. I'm hoping this is a short phase. Her and ds have come to fistacuffs at least once a day for the last couple days.

naps are hit or miss here. Today she had one but I am pretty sure she is getting sick.

PL well here we have complete success. No diapers here anymore!

I'm still waiting to hear on school. Apparently they are finally reviewing my application.


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## Mal85

Oh man has the exhaustion set in, already!! I couldn't make it past 9 last night (and I'm usually a night owl), slept like a rock until 7 this morning and was ready for a nap by 9:30. How am I supposed to keep up with all these kiddos?!


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## starling&diesel

When are you due, Mal? Can you join Sue and I in the October DDC? I'm so excited for you!


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## Everrgreen

Mal - I'm glad to hear all your numbers are good! Yay!

Cindy - Fingers crossed that you will be joining all the pregnant mama's soon!!

We are doing well here. Just last night out of nowhere Royce counted "one, two, three, seven, eight, nine, ten" and he was doing it again this morning. A couple days ago I had counted out some of his animals one to ten so he really must have been paying attention! (Well.. sort of, he missed 'four, five, six'). I thought it was very cool though to hear him saying all those numbers! He was doing it backwards too 

We are at my moms now for a few days which is so nice to have someone else to entertain Royce! And today my cousin's little boy is over so the two of them are playing. Tomorrow night I am going to either see my guy or my friend. I'm not sure what's happening with my guy, I haven't heard from him much this week and everything just feels different now. So it might be over.. I have plans with him for tomorrow night but if it doesn't work out my friend has agreed to be my back-up plan. Either way I'm leaving Royce with my mom tomorrow night


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: Backwards counting? wow! Makenna counted to 10 out of the blue one day too. But she won't ever do it when I ask her to. I hope you have fun tomorrow!! I could so use a night out! DH and I were supposed to go out tonight but it was a babysitting swap and my friend's daughter now has pink eye so that is off!

Mal: So sorry you are pooped! I have no idea how you do daycare on a normal day. 3 hours of watching my friend's daughter per week is enough for me - and she is a sweet little girl.

Nilla: Yay for no diapers!!! So jealous!!! I hope you hear about your program soon. Waiting is the worst!

I am doing some more work for my old boss today. Makenna is with the nanny. She really didn't want to go. And yesterday I tried to work out and they came to get me after 14 minutes. I haven't left her much (or worked out) over the past couple months so now she isn't used to it anymore. I think she will have fun w/the nanny though. They are going to baby gym at the Y. She at least didn't cry when I left her. Despite saying she didn't want to go while we were driving there, I think she felt better once she saw the nanny and remembered her.

Ok, off to do some work!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Starling- Going by when I got my positive OPK, I'd be due sometime around November 12. I have my first prenatal on the 15 though, so hopefully I'll find more out then. I may just not tell them about the positive OPK so I can get an early ultrasound.









I found a nearby, freestanding birth center! I'm so excited about it. I made an appointment to have an interview with the main midwife there on Monday afternoon. They said I'll get a whole hour with just the midwife and deliveries are done at the birth center. It's only a 40 minute drive from my house! They just opened the end of last year, so that would be why I hadn't heard of them while I was pregnant with Owyn. I'm so happy to have an option other than the hospital!

Naptime now, and thank God I had some help today. My friend came over and helped for a few hours. We had a long chat about the number of kids I have and my stress level on the days I have everyone. I keep my good friend's 10 month old son a few times a week and he is really the equivalent of keeping 3 infants when it comes to how much attention he requires. He doesn't sleep well, only in the Beco. He cries anytime I put him down, like screaming crying. He has no interest in the other kids, so I can't even have the older girls entertain him while I change diapers or something. He's been coming for 3 months now and I keep thinking it's going to get better, but it's only getting worse. I really feel like I need to talk to his mom about it, I'm ready to quit altogether because of my stress level on the days he's here. I just don't know what to say because she's a very good friend of mine and I don't want hurt her feelings...


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## Mal85

Gillian, enjoy your night! Hopefully you'll get to see your guy. I'm really crossing my fingers for you there. And wow on the counting! Owyn doesn't really count, other than 1-2-3 when she's getting ready to jump or run somewhere.

Nilla, I'm so impressed with the potty training! How did you do it, I could use some tips here! Owyn asks to go potty all the time and wants to wear panties all the time, but so far no success. Just lots of messes!


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## justKate

Gillian, that's awesome that your friend will be your backup. I hope you have a good time, whichever way it goes!

Nilla, I'm definitely impressed with your PL skills! I hope you find out about school soon.

Mal, I would just "forget" about the positive OPK. Then if you don't like what they say dates-wise after the U/S, you can "remember" the OPK.







I think if the 10 month old is stressful, you should talk to his mom. She'll understand; he's probably a PITA for her, too. Do you think he might be reflux-y? What about a vibrating bouncy chair?

Cindy, that's awesome that you still get occasional work like that. I'm sure Makenna will have fun at Baby Gym. When are DH's test results expected?

So we've got 2 due in October, 1 due in November, and I'm





















for Cindy to be December so that I can maybe be January 2012! That would keep us busy for quite a while.

Not much going on here. I know I was talking about how excited I am to SAH for a while, but I actually applied for a federal job today.







It would be writing/editing training manuals on the same base where Huz will be working, for DoD. We'll see. I'm asking for the higher end of the pay scale (to make it worth giving up my 12+ mos. of unemployment!), but we'll see. That could facilitate a baby for me sooner.... And if I'm working for the government I won't really care one bit about taking lots of leave.

Can you all tell I'm in a smiley mood today? Smilies everywhere! Hooray for the weekend!


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## AKislandgirl

Fiona was licking the window on our back door earlier. She looked up and said, "Mmm tasty, try it!" So gross!

She loves counting. We always have her count to 10 while she's waiting for someone to come out of the bathroom. She skipped 8 for the longest time but has it down now. She gets to 16 or so pretty good. She also loves to sing her ABC's with a few humms in place of certain letters but for the most part she has them down.

We are a week into "Project Night Wean" and we've had many a rough night. Last night we actually got some sleep. She stirred once and I offered her some water and then she went right back to sleep and stayed asleep until after 6. I let her nurse then which she did for a few minutes and then rolled over and went back to sleep. Hallelujah! I was at my breaking point just the night before so I needed this so badly. I sure hope that we have more good nights then bad from here on out. The funny thing is that even though Fiona was still sleeping I kept waking up at her usual times. Old habits die hard! I really hope tonight will be another good night for us.

Kate: yeah for good moods!









Gillian: Have a fun night out Mama! I can't remember my last night out... it has been years. I don't know if I'd know what to do with myself!

Mal: I'd definitely talk to the babies mom. I know it will be hard to do it but you need to take care of yourself too! You are growing a human which is really hard work in and of itself. You've got to cut back somewhere.


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## mckittre

Gillian - hope the night is a blast, however it goes.

Nilla - I too am greatly impressed with the potty thing. We can get some potty use here, but only pees, not 100%, and only while naked at home. I'm gearing up for a more concerted effort in summer (I am not dealing with potty training in snowsuits)

Mal - Can you tell your friend that you have to cut back with pregnancy, and want to just have toddlers (need less carrying, etc...)? As for dates, speaking as someone who just had a baby at 42+1, I'd do whatever you think gives you the most wiggle room at the end, to be able to get out of induction pressure. Not sure whether they'll see the OPK or ultrasound as more firm?

Sue - glad the nightweaning is getting better for you! My friends here (with slightly younger kids) are asking me for suggestions for nightweaning now, and even though it was only 6 months ago, I don't remember quite how we did it. Amazing how quickly even the hard phases pass.

Katmai enjoys counting and counting books, but doesn't really get it. Sometimes he can count to ten, sometimes he skips numbers, but he can't really count objects beyond 2 or 3.


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## Vegan Princess

Makenna peed on the potty! She kept saying she pooped and asking me to change her and she hadn't...so we sat on the potty for a long time. Finally she insisted I put her diaper back on and she pooped in it. But then later she kept saying "I don't want to pee". So I had her sit on the potty (bribed her with chocolate). She told me to go in the kitchen and she actually peed! But then once she had her diaper on later she kept crying and saying "I peed". I don't know if she is super conscious of it now or if it hurts. I'm just a bit worried about a bladder infection since she was saying she didn't want to pee earlier. But she didn't cry when she peed on the potty. Anyway, this is the first pee in a LONG time!

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

Mal I hope things settle down for you. My sitter is 11 weeks along and she looks like a wreck right now. I don't know how she keeps up with all of the kiddos while being exhausted and puking. I couldn't do it. Is the babe's mom open to trying some things like changing his diet? He sounds like he's allergic to something.

Cindy my fingers and toes are crossed you are joining the next ddc.

PL tips hmmmm.... Perseverance







. I think the big turning point for us was her pooping on the floor and her rash clearing up. She was mortified about pooping on the floor and never wanted to do it again. Once her rash was clear she didn't cry on the potty anymore. Seems like my kids both do it early though. Once they get the hang of it I take away the diapers completely so there is no confusion. D will still pee in a diaper if you put one on her but will not pee in undies. The other thing that worked for the nighttraining was that she peed in the bed once and that completely mortified her as well. From then on not a drop. She sometimes wakes at 3 to pee though so that's the trade off. I have hard wood floors as well so messes are easy to deal with.

I made yogurt in my slowcooker last night. Very cool! I've fallen in love with my slowcooker again.

I know this is the forum for our toddlers but you ladies are so knowledgeable I thought I might ask your advice on my son as well. He turns 5 next month. He has suddenly turned into an unruly terror. He refuses to listen, he sasses back, he pushes, hits and screams, he makes incredible messes to see my reaction. I've tried time outs, heart to hearts, more exercise, more vitamins, more sleep. Nothing seems to be working. Right now if he does something like make a mess he has to clean it but then he refuses so we have been having him sit on the stairs until he's ready to go and clean it. This is becoming a battle of wills. He won't sit so I end up dragging him back there repeatedly. I need some natural consequences for not listening.


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## Nillarilla

Justkate I hope everything works out the way you want it too.

Starling how is the pg going?

AK I'm so glad the nightweaning is starting to succeed for you.


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## AKislandgirl

Oh Nilla, that sounds hard. I'll put my thinking cap on and get back to you. Does he have a pretty consistent/predictable schedule from day to day?

Well, last night was another good night with Fiona. The night before not so much. I can see that its going to probably be like that for a while. She has nursed in the night for 2 years after all, I shouldn't expect miracles in just a week and a half or so.

Man, I'm dead tired. I feel like I need a nap just a couple of hours after waking up. Morning sickness isn't too bad for me and most days I don't feel sick at all but then others I feel off all day. No puking thankfully! I just hope that I start gaining more energy soon. Fiona is getting the raw end of the deal with a tired, cranky Mama who doesn't want to do much during the day. I make myself get out of the house with her at least once a day but I still feel guilty for not being very energetic these days. She's watched her fair share of Little Bill and Wonder Pets...


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## starling&diesel

*Nilla* ... Anything going on at preschool or playdates, with the nanny? Difficulty with friends or socializing? I've found that with many kids (worked with at-risk youth for ten years) they take their troubles out on their safe people (family, usually) when their lack of control or new frustrations kick their emotional butt elsewhere. For example, if he was bowled over, ignored, shunned, shamed or otherwise made to feel unwelcome/unworthy at the sandbox, he might come home and 'dominate' the house until he feels more validated. Make sense? Throwin' it out there.

As for the pregnancy (thanks for asking!), it's going well so far. Nausea is almost constant, but I'm not puking, so that's good. Getting bigger WAY faster this time. Not sure if my uniform will do up on Tuesday after being off for a week. That will be a problem as my mat uniform is back ordered. Nursing is effin' PAINFUL.

The worst thing is that this is when (same as with Esmé) I start to worry that the baby has stopped developing and that I'm just awaiting a miscarriage or lack of heartbeat at my first midwife appointment. I know this is silly and unnecessary, but it does my head in nonetheless. I don't like not knowing what's going on in there. And I'm in mat pants right now, so I know all is well (what with the barrage of symptoms too) but I just can't get it out of my head that something has gone wrong. I felt like this from about week 8-14 last time, until we could hear the hearbeat on a regular basis and the tummy was more obvious.

*Sue* ... I hear you about the fatigue! I feel like I've been run over by a schoolbus!

*Cindy* ... Yay for Mckenna! Are you still worried about a UTI?

*Mal* ... You have got FAR TOO MUCH on your plate, my dear! Simplify! As soon as you can!

*Counting* ... Esmé loves counting. She likes to draw exactly ten circles and then asks for exactly ten raisins so that she can put one in each circle and eat them one at a time, counting as she goes.

*Pottying* ... Never going to happen. At least not that I can imagine. Sigh.


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## Vegan Princess

Nope, not worried about UTI anymore. I think she was just concerned about peeing in her diaper after doing it in the potty. She went diaperless for like 3-4 hours yesterday and didn't use the potty once! She did say "uh oh my butt" and run to the potty. LOL. She tried a few times but nothing came out. She walked aorund grabbing her crotch like she was trying to hold it in? I think she held it the entire time! Though she claims she did pee on the rug...but I didn't see any wet spots and she was never wet. My mom says I should put her panties on so I will know if she wet and so it will be more impactful for her having wet panties on.

Starling: I'm sorry you are so scared. I think I will feel like that too. A woman I know from another board just had an ultrasound at 11.5 weeks and there was no heartbeat. How devastating! I think I've read too much online that has scared me lately. Better off not knowing!

UGH! So now DH is planning a trip home over the weekend when I should ovulate next. He did offer to try and find another weekend. I hope that works out - he is having to coordinate dates with his 2 brothers. I will be so sad if I willingly have to wait an extra month to get pregnant.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Starling, I completely understand the fears. I'm only 4-ish weeks along, so anytime I even talk about the pregnancy or refer to "the baby", I feel like I might be jinxing things. I'm really feeling it now though, I have been utterly exhausted all weekend. It comes in waves. I feel totally normal for a couple of hours, then suddenly I could fall asleep standing on my feet. That'll last for about 15-20 minutes, then I'm good for another couple hours.

Cindy, really hoping your DH makes it home!!

I think our plan for potty learning is to go full force when warm weather hits. Lots of dresses with naked butt underneath. I have noticed that Owyn will hold it if she's totally naked, or at least she really tries to. If anything is on her, diaper or panties, she'll pee in it. We had a cute conversation about going potty the other day. I was changing her diaper and DH walked into the bathroom:

Owyn: where daddy go?

Me: Daddy went potty.

Owyn: Daddy potty on toilet?

Me: Yes, Daddy goes potty on the toilet.

Owyn: Mommy potty on toilet?

Me: Yes, Mommy goes potty on the toilet.

Owyn: *hehehehehe* Owyn potty in biper (her word for diaper)!

Me: Yes you did, but Owyn can potty on the toilet too.
Owyn: Owyn potty on toilet? Nooooo, Owyn potty in biper!

I have my interview tomorrow with the birth center. I'm so excited to see the place! Anyone have any questions I should ask at the interview? I feel like I should have a million questions ready to ask, but I really just want think I need to start by getting a feel for the place and the midwife.. I'm really hoping my insurance will cover this place. DH is completely against using something that isn't covered by insurance, he's really tight with money like that.







They said the accept my insurance, but weren't sure if they cover all the expenses, so we'll see what they say tomorrow. Wish me luck!


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## Mal85

Oh, and I totally forgot to add... I did get a chance to talk to my friend about watching her son. I just told her my stress level had reached its peak and I needed to cut back a little. I agreed to keep him only on Fridays, that way I won't have him and the other infant I keep on the same days. I really think it will help to only have one infant at a time to care for. I also talked to DH about where I could cut back when I have the baby. I'm going to keep the sibling set. Once my daycare family has their baby and he starts coming, I'm going to let go of my other families. I'm really glad we made these decisions, it helps with my stress level now sooo much to know that a lot of this will be lifted from my shoulders soon enough.


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## justKate

Okay I'm sorry in advance, 'cause this is totally TMI. But I have to share because it is too funny and there's no one else I can share this with for fear Huz will somehow read my email. So we're charting to avoid, and using withdrawal during fertile times. And I'm totally upfront about when is safe, when is "dangerous", making Huz look at my chart ane memorize the rules and everything. So no deception, he gets it.

Last night, like midnight CD16, DTD. I told him, REALLY DANGEROUS DAY. Now here's the weird part (I'm doing it as a spoiler to avoid grossing out anyone that doesn't want to be grossed out):

[SPOILER=Warning: Spoiler!]

He pulls out to finish up, then goes back in.... Later, he makes a really crude comment (which is totally fine between us) and I realize that he didn't realize he was inside when he finished. He thought he was somewhere else.









[/SPOILER]

And I was too shocked to say anything. Seriously?! You couldn't tell?! And then this morning, when I'm driving to work at 7:00 a.m., I have O pain.

Geez. Do I say anything? I know it shouldn't be, but this is hilarious to me. WTH am I supposed to say? I wanted an oops but not quite like this.

Anyway.

Mal, I'm glad you're going to get some relief. It sounds like waaay too much for anyone to be doing. You definitely need to cut back.

Cindy, that really sucks about your DH being gone. Maybe you could meet him for a few minutes, if he's not going too far? Hopefully he can move things around a little to make it work.

Nilla, logical consequences for a 5 year old are really hard, I think. My cousin has a (will be 5 next month) son who just. doesn't. listen. They do a lot of time outs, and something to do with trust-- basically, if he can't act responsibly they won't trust him to do things that are related. So when he dumps legos all over the floor and refuses to clean them, they take them away and give him one small lego set he can play with at the table, supervised. I don't know if it's working or not. As far as screaming and hitting, Aubs is terrible with that. I just walk away. It hurts when you hit mommy. Screaming hurts mommy's ears, so mommy is going to go over here and do X until you calm down. And then I'm emotionally available as soon as she comes looking for me. Usually her hitting/screaming is to show her dissatisfaction with something...the most effective reaction for me is no reaction. Like when she starts tipping her cup on the table, dripping milk on it. I take away the cup and give her a sippy cup with a lid. No debate, no argument, it's just done. My hope is that she's learning "if I pour milk on the table, I don't get to use a big cup." We'll see.... I hope you can find a solution that will make things more comfortable for you. It's awful never knowing when the next storm will hit.


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## starling&diesel

JustKate!

OH MY GOD! That is SO funny!


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: Too funny!! I hope you get knocked up (if that's what you want?)!! Eeck.

And yes, DH picked another weekend to go away! Phew! He is flying half way cross country so I couldn't just pop over.  Now he is going 2 weeks later. Then maybe I can surprise him when he gets home w/a BFP. One can hope anyway.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

OMG Kate! That is hilarious!  Lets hope you get pregnant Mama! PS. I'm impressed with your technical savvy on the forum!

Starling: I totally get your fear. It's hard not to worry until you can feel them kicking and prodding you on a regular basis. When I couldn't feel Fiona kicking for a while I'd sort of poke her and wake her up just so I could feel her move again. It's also hard to read about losses from other women in the DDC. I want to read and respond with support but part of me doesn't want to read about loss at all. It will get better as the weeks go by Mama! And yeah for comfortable maternity pants! I've started wearing them too. I'm just really needing them so much sooner then with Fiona even though I started out skinnier then I was when I got pregnant with her.


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## mckittre

Kate - that is quite funny. Are you going to tell him, or just wait and see what happens?

Starling - I always worried too, until the babies were kicking, really. And AK, I definitely did the "poke the baby to get them moving" thing too.

Mal - I'd ask what their policy/recommendation is if you're "overdue". I didn't think I'd need to worry because Katmai was right on time, but with Lituya, I needed all the flexibility I could get.

Pottying - Katmai took himself to the potty and pooped on it twice in the past couple of days! Of course, he doesn't yet know not to get up and run across the room and sit on a chair before getting wiped. Ugh. He's getting better with pee as well, though we've never tried underwear on him, it's only a naked time activity. I hope he'll be done with diapers by next fall at least, when we're doing a 2 month long expedition that will be easier with only one kid in diapers.

About the wrong kid... I'm going to try going off dairy for awhile to see if it'll help Lituya gain weight faster. She's such a happy baby it seems unlikely she's allergic to anything, but she's gaining weight at the very minimum of what they consider acceptable, and does spit up a lot. But I've never dealt with allergies before, so I don't know what I'm looking for?


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## justKate

No, I'm not going to tell him. No sense in worrying him if it turns out to be nothing.

Not sure about allergies, but I think dairy is a good place to start. Does she seem refluxy--like painful throwing up, or just regular baby spit up?


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## AKislandgirl

I started with dairy too when trying to figure out Fiona's allergies. She didn't spit up much but was slow to gain and had a rash. For her though we didn't know anything was up till she was really eating solids. That is when her rash showed up and wouldn't go away. Her allergy turned out to be gluten. I think just try one thing at a time for at least 2-3 weeks to see how she does. There are a lot of really knowledgeable people in the allergy forum on here if you need more advice. Good luck!

Kate: I love your profile picture! Love that bright red hair!!


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## justKate

Erin, wanted to add that when I stopped pumping and gave Aubs cow milk, she had a rough time with it. We switched to goat milk for her and it made a world of difference. So if you do give up dairy, maybe you can try goat milk...apparently there's an issue with cow-milk proteins being harder to digest? Sue's right, the allergy forum ladies know everything....


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## Mal85

I had my interview yesterday. I'm still kind of processing it and trying to figure out what I think of the place. It was hard to get a feel because it's unfinished and the birthing rooms weren't quite put together. Well, nothing was really put together yet. The midwife and her assistant seemed nice enough, but they mentioned several times that they had a long birth that ended in a transfer the night before, so they were kind of out of it. My issues were the neighborhood that it's in, for one. It's, uh, not the nicest neighborhood in the community. Kind of a dangerous area, actually. The midwife mentioned a few issues they were having with the state and getting their license for a birth center... and that they may be suing soon. So that put me off a little... just dealing with all those issues.

I did find another place though. Their office officially opens in June, but I've seen the blueprints online and their description for the plans. It just seems a lot more... legit, I guess would be the word. It's actually on the other side of the state line, so they don't have the same licensing issues the other place had. It's a longer drive though. An hour away in good traffic. I got really good feel for the woman I talked to on the phone though and I'd love to meet with them. Their doing their visits in another city until their office is ready... it's an even longer drive away. So, DH and I thought maybe we'd stick with the practice I'm going to now until their office is ready. Just to avoid the 1.5 hour drive for prenatal visits. That is, if insurance cooperates and this place is even an option.

Anyway, I'm rattling.... Sue and Starling: Do you guys think your girls get it about a baby coming. I've told Owyn about it a few times and she really doesn't seem to understand. Either that or she really just doesn't care at this point. Maybe that'll change when I start to show.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: My birth center was in a not so nice part of the city and on a horrible street with homeless and prostitutes out front! But it was a haven inside so it was fine. But is the birth center suing or is the state suing the birth center? That could be an issue! The other one sounds great!

I started accupuncture last night for fertility. I tried a community center and will be going to a lady who specialized in fertility tomorrow. Hope it helps! I keep reading that it can help rebalance your hormones so it is worth a try. It was interesting and somewhat relaxing - and I slept like a log last night! Also it was a veyr relaxing setting and you just have to hang out and relax while the needles are in - so that was some nice quiet, me time!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy, I hope it works! I love getting acupuncture! It is so relaxing!


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## Everrgreen

Kate - OMG, that is so funny!! I can't believe you didn't tell him! So I guess you will be POAS??

*hugs* to all you pregnant mama's. The beginning is so hard with all the exhaustion, nausea, and worry. Sending you all happy healthy vibes 

So my weekend was ok. Saturday night I ended up hanging out with my friend bc 'my guy' had to work late for some big work problem. But he said we could have brunch and do something on Sunday. So both him and my friend live in the same city an hour away so I was staying at my friends. In the morning I drove over to his house (it was about 10:30am) and he was sleeping in and didn't hear his phone or the door!! I was so pissed that I ended up leaving and heading home. He didn't get up until after 12pm and apologized saying he had worked until 4am. But this was just the last straw for me. I really felt he should have texted me to inform me that he would be sleeping in. And his apology was kind of pathetic, it was just a lot of "I'm sorry, but..". So I ended things. I am now regretting it. On one hand the last 2 weeks he has been sending me so many mixed signals, has been distracted, and seems uninterested. He did tell me work was crazy and he wanted to slow things down but things had slowed down way too much. I felt like he didn't even care one way or the other about me. The first 2 weeks were amazing, but I can't continue to put up with him being the way he is now just because he was awesome when we first met. But he was really awesome... And he did tell me work was really bad right now... So maybe I'm in the wrong. ARGH! I don't know. Dating sucks  Anyway, at this point I have ended it and haven't recieved any 'please reconsider' from him so I guess he's not too torn up about it. And he leaves next week for 6 weeks for work. So I guess I just need to move on.. I'm sad 

I did have a really good time Saturday night with my friend though, I went to see a movie for the first time since before Royce was born.. maybe even before he was conceived.. it'd been a while!


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## justKate

Ugh, Gillian, that sucks. But it doesn't sound like he's in a position to be available (physically or emotionally) the way you deserve.









I'll probably POAS this weekend even though it's way early. I've got 2 tests left over from a 3 pack I bought months ago....if nothing else my chart should tell in time.


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## AKislandgirl

Oh Gillian, I'm sorry. I think you did the right thing though. You don't have time to mess around with someone who isn't fully on board with the relationship. I know breaking up sucks and is sad but you have showed us how strong you are! Big hugs Mama!


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: I'm sorry. That sounds so lame to make plans and then not answer his phone or let you know he needs to sleep?! Sounds very selfish. It's always hard to say goodbye to the potential and what if but I do think you did the right thing.

Accupuncture again tonight. This time w/a woman specializing in infertility. I find myself so looking forward to it! Funny, never thought I'd look forward to getting stuck w/needles but it's such nice, quiet time! LOL!

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

Justkate - that's pretty funny. Well babies happen when they are meant to IMO so if you do get preggo his oopsie was supposed to happen.

Gillian - Sorry that all that potential was lost but I think you did the right thing.

Erin - I've been dealing with allergies in my kids for the last 5 years. It's a long hard road. Dairy is the easiest to eliminate. Honestly though if your babe has a sensitivity it's best to eliminate all the potential allergens and add them back in one at a time. If she has one allergy or sensitivity she is very likely to have another as well. If you eliminate the top 8 and then reintroduce it's a much faster process. If she's not gaining weight as fast as you'd like you can always try pumping some of the fatty hindmilk after katmai has nursed or she has and supplement with that. Also adding a few more EFA's to your diet may help.

I'm so tired... I have a student at work and as always with a student I am just tapped when the day is done.

Do any of your kids have leapfrog stuff? Dd got this dog that sings and talks to her and says her name and talks about her favorite stuff (you load it on from the computer). She LOVES this thing. She also has the leapfrog phone that counts and the laptop thing (all gifts). Ds has the tag books and pen. I actually really like their products as they are interactive and the kids seem to play with them and master something but they don't get so absorbed that they ignore all else. I'm not usually into battery powered toys but for travel these things are great.


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## Everrgreen

Thank you everyone for the support. I'm doing ok. Still hurting but it will take time for that.

No leapfrog stuff here but I think you've inspired me to go buy some today I think Royce would like something a bit more interactive like that. And maybe it would get him to stop clinging to me all day long.

Cindy - I hope the accupuncture works for you! I've never had it before but I consider anything I get to do without Royce to be relaxing. The other day I spent 40 minutes waiting at a government office, sitting there, waiting, doing nothing, was awesome 

Mal - that's tough to try and make a decision like that with so many unknowns. I think for me the location of the birth centre wouldn't matter as much as a connection with the midwife. It is nice that you get a choice though. In Canada it is awesome that midwifery care is covered but I was assigned a midwife (didn't choose) and then I did end up having a great connection with her, but she was off-call when I went into labour so I had my secondary midwife instead, who is a great midwife but I just didn't feel the same connection with her.

Oh and I forgot to mention that I have a job interview next week!!!! It's just a part time customer serivce job but I am so excited about having something to get me out of the house. I will need to put Royce in daycare if I get it. It will be 15-25 hours per week. My interview is next Tuesday so keep your fingers crossed for me


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## justKate

Nilla, thanks for the idea! We've got a couple of road trips coming up in May, so something leapfrog might be the thing to keep Aubs happy.

Gillian, yay for the job! Daycare might be really good for Royce--it definitely will give him a chance to use up some energy.


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: Yay for the job interview! I so enjoyed my few hours of work/week I was doing through year end. Even though I was working, the quiet time was nice.

Nilla: We have the leapfrog dog. It was a gift. Makenna used to love to press the paws but lately she doesn't play with it. I think it's old hat now. I should dig it out again.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

I'm feeling discouraged about going to work. I'm starting to research daycare options and I think it is going to be near impossible to find a place. Most of the places only offer care from 7am - 5pm. And my shifts could start as early as 6am and go as late as 7pm, plus I will have to work some weekends. I'm so frustrated. Plus it's expensive. I will end up with less than minimum wage after I pay for daycare. I don't care as much about that bc I am so desperate to get out of this house. But finding childcare for the hours I will be working could be impossible. I don't know what to do. I'm so frustrated with everything right now


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## Vegan Princess

Gillian: Could you look into a nanny share maybe? Then you can have more flexibility with your hours. And you split the cost of the nanny. Around here it is $10/hr per kid (though I found one for $8).

OMG ladies. We got the results of DH's tests. Severe male factor! He has very low sperm count. Like so low that I think the doctors might not even want to do IUI and might just reccomend IVF! He has gotten me pregnant 2x though. So he has to see a urologist to see if something is blocked and I am calling fertility specialists today. Obviously, my doctor is not giving me clomid since he has such a big thing going on. I am a tiny bit relieved to know it's not all me but not happy bc this means we have a huge hurdle to get past! I so don't want to go through the fertility meds of IVF - the injectables. Blech. Or egg retreival. I'll gladly do it if we have to. But it is SO expensive and doesn't always work. I so wish I was in Canada right now where it is covered!!!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy: Wow! So glad that you found out though. Being on clomid for months and months is NOT fun! I hope you can find some good information from fertility clinics.

Gillian: What about a home daycare? Or hiring a nanny like Cindy suggested. I hope you can work something out.


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## mckittre

Gillian - first the dating, now the daycare... I'm sorry things are so tough! I hope you can work something out - maybe a more informal childcare trade of some type?

Cindy - that sucks, but I guess it's good to know what you're dealing with. I hope you can figure it out soon.

We're on the other side of the whole fertility thing - my husband's got an appointment to get snipped next month, so we can stop worrying about pregnancy altogether. 2 kids is just right for us.

My mom's visiting, which is awesome, but she gave Katmai a cold, which is unfortunate. He's napping now - he never naps in the house anymore - so I know he must be feeling bad. On the plus side, it's been an absolutely gorgeous week - sunny calm, just enough below freezing to keep the snow from getting too melty. And I filed my taxes and got a bunch of money back. Woohoo!


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## justKate

Gillian, I'm sorry. That really sucks, but those hours are going to be hard to coordinate childcare. Unless your mom or someone lives close enough that they could pick him up if you are scheduled to work later? Or maybe they would agree to a set schedule?

Cindy, I'm glad you got some answers! And I know what you mean about being a little relieved that it's not all you. I think women spend a lot of our lives thinking about fertility (avoiding pregnancy) so then when there's an issue getting pg we take it hard. I'm not sure how men feel about that. I remember thinking before I was pg with Aubs that I was going to be PISSED if I'd spent 13 years on BC to find that I wasn't fertile anyway. I don't think men think that way.... Anyway I hope that there is an inexpensive, noninvasive solution for you.









Erin, poor Katmai. Hopefully it's a mild one and he feels better soon.

As for me, I POAS this morning. BFN, which was mostly a relief. FF thinks I'm 12DPO. I think I'm 7DPO, which is when the oops that I"m worried about happened. So I've got one more test and I'll save that for Saturday if AF hasn't shown yet. Ugh. I had no idea how much being sick could mess things up. Grr.

If anyone is interested: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/320676


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: Have you charted more than this month? It almost looks like you didn't ovulate. Your post O temps are awfully low. But you said you felt O, right? So if you are 7 dpo, it is way too early to know!

So I talked w/a friend who has similar progesterone issues as me and her husband has a lower sperm count than DH. She said her doc said it wasn't a big deal. She is 24 weeks pregnant now w/#2. She did end up doing IUI. I made a dr appt for DH w/a urologist for Tuesday and we have an appt w/a fertility specialist in 2 weeks...and it turns out it is the same practice that got my friend pregnant. So hopefully we will get a plan of action and get this show on the road! I am fine w/justing going straight to IUI if need be. But DH also agreed to try accupuncture and take vitamins and stop drinking - after st patricks day. LOL.He doesn't drink horribly much but he does enjoy a few drinks. Anyway, after talking to my friend I feel like our situation is much less dire than I feared.

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

Gillian what about a mom that's not licensed but wants to make a little extra and stay home with her kids?


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## mckittre

Cindy - glad it all seems solvable.

I spent most of the morning wearing two kids, dancing in place to keep the little one asleep, while endless monster truck videos played on YouTube to entertain the half-zonked toddler. Katmai has the flu, as does my husband (who spent the whole day in bed). A sick toddler and a baby (thankfully not sick yet) is hard! Especially since I'm feeling just a touch of whatever it is myself. Katmai slept at least half the day and seemed a bit better this evening. I'm hoping this is gone soon.


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## justKate

Cindy, it is really good to hear that things might not be as bad as you feared. Hopefully they'll have a quick plan for you. I know the waiting is hard.

FF says I'm 13 DPO; my usual LP is 11 days and there's no sign of AF. I think FF is wrong and I'm only 7 DPO. Ugh. Either way, I'm going to put it out of my mind until next weekend.

Erin, I hope everybody feels better soon.


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy, I hope you guys can do IUI! Remember it only takes one sperm! 

Erin, Hope everyone is on the mend soon and Lituya doesn't get it! Healing vibes coming your way!


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## Mal85

Cindy, hoping things work out for you. Good to hear it may not be a dire situation.

How are you little ones handling the time change? I feel like it's turned my little girl into a monster. I know how she must feel, I'm pretty tired too, but man she has been cranky, cranky, cranky the last two days. I think her 2 year molars are working their way in too, so that doesn't help things. On top of all that, her mommy has little to no energy or patience to deal with it. Thank God there's on movie in the world she'll watch, even if it means I have to listen to Annie a hundred times over.









I'm really finding out how much different pregnancy is gonna be with a toddler. I just can't keep up with her right now. I'm so looking forward to the second trimester already, I need that energy back!

I go for my first prenatal tomorrow afternoon, wish me luck!


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## Vegan Princess

We skipped the nap yesterday and even though we had a cranky little one, she went to bed easily even a little before her normal time and slept well until 7 this morning. So I think she's adjusted. Not so sure I am yet though.

Mal - sorry you are so pooped! I hope the next few weeks go easily for you. Enjoy your visit tomorrow.


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## AKislandgirl

Well we had a hellacious night on Saturday. She was up and crying and just couldn't get settled for most of the night. Don't really know what was up since we've had great success with the night weaning for about a week (no tears!) before that. She did take a good nap yesterday with me. Then Last night for only the second time in her life she slept through the night! She easily went to sleep and stayed asleep until 7:00 when I pulled her in bed with me and she nursed for a bit and then fell back asleep until 8:30. It gives me hope for the future of my sanity!

Please God, let it happen again!


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## mckittre

Sue - I hope for more nights of good sleeping!

The time change hasn't done a thing over here (we don't have much scheduled, so I hardly noticed it), but this virus sure has. I've been doing pretty much all kid duty since my husband is more knocked down than I am. Katmai seems to be on the mend, at least. And I think Lituya's OK? But she was fussier and sleepier today, so I hope she's not about to get it worse.


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## justKate

Gosh sleep must be in the air! Aubs slept in her own bed all night last night. I was exhausted, but I kept waking up to look at her--make sure she was still there or something. Her bed is next to ours, so I didn't have to get up or anything, but it's weird that I sleep better with her next to me, in a way. But in her own bed is a very good thing.

Cindy, how did DH's appointment go?


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## Vegan Princess

Well DH's urologist said everything physically is normal - no varicose veins or anything. He gave him a lab form to repeat his test. He'll do that in 2 weeks and then we see the fertility specialist the week after that. Glad there is nothing physically wrong but the urologist really had nothing helpful to add or say.

Erin: Hope everyone is feeling better!!

Kate: How are you feeling? Any symptoms to obsess over?

Anyone been to the dentist yet? I went for myself today and they said it's time to take her to a pediatric dentist. She wants to go. But she totally won't let us brush her teeth lately. She used to not mind and now it is a huge battle. Maybe going to the dentist will help.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy, your post reminded me that when DH did his test they said everything was "normal" and fine. Then on our 4th IUI the lab tech said numbers were low and didn't give us much hope that the IUI would work. We went for it anyway and conceived Fiona! My point is that I think its not uncommon for #'s and motility and such to change with men since they are always producing new sperm. And even with the low numbers IUI worked for us.

The other thing that I have no idea if it made a difference or not (but I like to think so) is that I did Mayan Massage work this go around. Twice with a professional and then did the self massage work they taught me on my own. I conceived without IUI this time and on a lower dose of clomid. It might be worth looking into. I'm sure if I could find a practitioner in Kodiak, AK you could find one in your area!

I'm certain pregnancy will happen for you quite soon Cindy! Just keep practicing!









Another great night with Fiona! Barely stirred and a hand on her back for a moment was all it took to quiet her little squeaks in the night. But, like you Kate, I'm not sleeping as well! I hope that my body can get used to sleeping on my own and without checking on her before I'm in the uncomfortable, I can't sleep well part of my pregnancy! Her bed is a twin next to ours so she isn't far and I don't have to get up to comfort her but I'm so used to waking with her I can't seem to stop!

It's hard to say weather she gets the baby thing or not. She pats my tummy and says "baby in there" and gives kisses and says hi baby but I almost feel like she's just named my stomach baby! LOL! The other day though she ran up to me and lifted my shirt and yelled "Boo!" and started cracking up. "I boo'd baby Mama!" She has been playing baby a lot though and using her baby voice and saying she's a baby and such. I keep telling her she will always be my baby. She likes to remind me though. I'm glad that we have a while before this baby comes because I think the transition will be a tricky one.

And to go further on in my novel...









She has formed this huge attachment to DH which is really awesome! As soon as he is home from work she is with him doing everything. Only Papa can changes diapers (







), clean her up after dinner, read the night time books, take her to feed the dogs (her "chore"), etc... The other day she told me to leave to go to yoga so they could be alone for special time! I'm so glad they have this closeness because for a long time it was all mama all the time.


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## Everrgreen

AK - Oh a daddy phase sounds awesome! Good timing for you too 

Cindy - I hope everything works out easily with your TTC efforts. I am sure that all the testing is very stressful. Is your dh looking into any natural therapies?

RE dentist - Nope not here. I guess maybe I should? I don't know..

RE sleep - It's been a little rough lately. Royce has started throwing tantrums in the middle of the night for 'num num' of 'cuddles' or 'mama you're not positioned in the exact way that I want you to be' :/ Not fun. My method of dealing is to ignore him and tell him I'm sleeping. And then when it escalates into kicking me while flailing about in a tantrum, I yell 'go to sleep right now'. I do not parent well at night. The time change hasn't been an issue for us as we have no schedule. Royce is now sleeping in until 9-9:30 (formerly 8-8:30) but it doesn't really matter to me so it's ok. I'm sure he'll adjust eventually.

Kate - any news? symptoms?

I had a bit of a stressful week, my period was over a week late. It finally came today. That would have been just my horrible awful luck. It would have been a miraculous conception if I was so that was keeping me sane (and I tested 3 times, all BFNs). I had a lot of stress right after my last period so I think that delayed my ovulation. I've never been so happy to see AF though :/

Oh and I had my job interview today! It went really well but they said there is training involved and because of that they would like someone who can commit to at least a year. I had to be honest with them about returning to school in September. So we will see what happens but I don't think I'll get it.


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## Mal85

Sue, Yay for good sleep! It's wonderful isn't it? Your sleep will adjust. Owyn started sleeping in a different room than us almost a year ago and I remember waking in the middle of the night in a panic because she hadn't woken up. I'd have to quietly go check on her every now and then for several nights. It didn't take long to start sleeping more soundly though.

Gillian, I'm just as cranky when it comes to nighttime parenting! I have no patience when I'm trying to sleep.

Owyn skipped her nap today and finally went to sleep at her normal time tonight. I'm hoping this will get her back on schedule. She has been staying up so late and is so cranky during the day.

I had my first prenatal this afternoon and have an official dd of November 6. I got to see the little bean and a small flicker of a heartbeat. Made me want to cry. For some reason, I've been a lot more emotional with this pregnancy than I was with my first.


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Thanks for telling me your story. I had wondered how many IUIs you did. I've heard from many sources that count can change drastically so we will see. Hopefully the next test isn't lower! I'm just glad all these dr appts are happening in a speedy fashion so we can just get on with doing whatever needs to be done and then I will never have to think about this stuff again. We had been iffy about a 3rd baby and sort of thinking 2 was it lately. I'm sure later we'll end up whatevering it and seeing what happens but not really figuring we'll have a 3rd. Yay for a good night sleep!! And so cute about the baby. I can't say for sure what Fiona understands but I know Makenna understands as she has gone through some of our friends' pregnancies recently. She has a great grasp on birth...though she thinks she came out of my belly button.

Gillian: DH is open to trying accupuncture, like I just started. I have an appt on Friday so I will ask her what she reccomends. She told me at my last appt that she would definitely have things he could take once we got his results back. Glad your interview went well! I hope they pick you! Any update on daycare options?

Mal: So cool you saw the heartbeat!! I bet you are more emotional bc the idea of a new baby is less of an abstract concept like it was the first time. It was hard for me to fathom that there was a real human baby in me until she came out.

Cindy


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## justKate

Mal, I totally get being more emotional with a second/subsequent pregnancy. I didn't really get it until I had Aubs home for a while--I didn't really feel connected to her before she was born, or afterwards, really, because she was in the hosptial for those 3 weeks (seemed like forever). I didn't even change her diapers for the first three weeks. It wasn't until we got home and she was MINE that I got it, really got it. I think that will be different with the next one.

Sue, that's awesome that you're getting a Daddy phase right now. Hopefully you'll get to take advantage of it and rest if you need to. And more Hoorays for sleep! Aubs made it from bed time until 5:00 in her own bed!! I think my alarm woke her, but thankfully she was willing to snuggle with Daddy until it was time to get her ready.

Discipline--I am having trouble with Aubs hitting me. Like on the face, my arms or whatever when she disagrees with me. She yells "no mommy!" and smacks me, then watches to see what I'll do. I try to just put her down and walk away, but it's often when I'm carrying her up the stairs for a bath, or trying to change her poopy diaper, or trying to keep her out of traffic--ugh. What's the logical consequence for hitting, when you can't walk away? And she only does it to me...no problems at daycare, which is where I suspect she learned to hit. At least it's not biting any more. That was awful.

Dentist--we're not going for a little while. We brush x 2 daily, and her teeth aren't touching each other yet, so I'm going to put it off a little. Maybe in the fall.

Cindy, it's good that things are looking normal, but it also kind of sucks because it doesn't give you any real answers. For me, if there were an obvious physical problem with either of us it would be a relief to be able to say, oh, here's your problem. There's a blockage in the plumbing, or whatever. I hope they keep the ball rolling quickly for you. And it's awesome that your DH is willing to try acupuncture. Huz would never go for that.

As for me, nothing really to report. No AF (although it would be early). My usual LP is 10-11 days. FF keeps changing my O date, so I don't even know when I could reliably test. I guess I should have AF or a BFP within 4 days, but I only have one test left so I'm waiting until the weekend to use it. From my chart at this point it could go either way. I don't want to go buy more tests because that would be too much like getting my hopes up.... Symptom-wise all I've had is a full-feeling abdomen, not like bloating, just full--which could be nothing, or a sign of AF coming. And I fell asleep at my desk at work yesterday morning. But that's not completely out of the ordinary for me.


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## Mal85

Owyn is going through a hitting phase too. I think she just replaced her biting with hitting. Oh, and pushing. She pushes the daycare kids, hits me. I did work on turning her room into a private play space for her and it seems to be helping. She's going through a "MINE!!!" phase. I just try to reinforce the idea that the things in her room are hers and the things in the rest of the house are to be shared. She seems to know her room is hers and she has the choice to invite her friends in there or to play by herself. And the other kids are learning to ask her if they can come in and play. When she goes in there, L (my daycare girl) will stand in the doorway and say "owyn, play? owyn, play?". Most of the time she doesn't mind if they go in and play with her, sometimes she chooses to close the door, meaning she wants to play on her own. I thought it would be complicated. I didn't want to ban other kids from going in there, because I want it to be her choice. The whole idea was to give her control over something and she seems to get that so far.

She also has her own Daddy time. It really is wonderful! Most of the time, when he gets home from work, he'll take her in the basement or to the garage with him while he works for a little while. She loves that! Especially now that it's getting warmer, Daddy lets her play outside on the patio while he watches from the garage. They also have breakfast together every Saturday morning, which she loooooves! It's rare, though, that she will choose him over me. She usually just goes with it, whoever does things for her is fine by her. But when she's in a picky mood, it's me she wants.

DH and I were talking about how different it is expecting a new one with a toddler running around. I think I'm more emotional because this time I know how much I'm going to love this little person, I had no idea with Owyn until she was here. Morning sickenss (all day really) started yesterday and it's a killer. No vomiting yet, just constant nausea and a gnawing hungry feeling all the time. I'm glad for symptoms though. Lets me know things are going well in there!


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## Everrgreen

Kate - your chart is hard to read, your temps are all over the place! I think the most likely O day is day 17 like ff is saying. I guess you'll just have to wait and see what happens this weekend!

RE discipline - Royce only hits once in a while if he's in a silly/over-tired mood. He does kick me in tantrums because he'll be lying next to me and his feet frantically kick (he never just walks up to me and kicks me). In any situation where he is being physical I usually will pick him up and move him away from me and explain why "you are hurting mama". It's sort of a time-out in a way which I know is kind of frowned upon here but I also consider it a natural consequence: if you can't stop hurting someone you need to be moved away from that person until you can be nice. Sometimes if I'm really frustrated and know I can't control my own anger I will go lock myself in the bathroom and take deep breaths to calm down (while Royce stands at the door banging..) Being physically hurt *really* pushes my buttons and I do not tolerate it at all.


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## AKislandgirl

Fiona hits me and no one else. I put her down on the couch and tell her "hitting hurts. That is not OK!" When she calms down I ask her to show me gentle touches and she strokes my hand or arm and says "gentle Mama." It seems to be working as she is doing it less and less. If DH is here, he takes her away and does the same thing in another room. She's into yelling "No" to me too about various things (getting dressed, choosing shoes, diaper changes, etc... He is always telling her to use nice words with Mama and to be a helper. Sometimes I can sing the Fiona is a helper song and get her to change her mind. The hitting sucks though and its really hard for me to stay calm in the middle of it.

mal: sorry you are feeling icky. I sipped on Reeds Ginger Brew (basically really strong ginger ale) throughout the day on my off days and that helps a lot. Also, don't forget that even though it doesn't sound good its better to eat every couple of hours. Sometimes you really have to talk yourself into it though!

I think I was actually more emotional in my pregnancy with Fiona. I was just so happy to be pregnant and couldn't believe that it had finally happened. Having a new one coming makes me really emotional about how big she is getting though. I'm hanging on to the very few baby things about her and a little overwhelmed by her bigness. Sometimes I feel these moments of "I hope its not too hard on her to adjust." I know she will be fine and it is wonderful to have siblings but its stuff I think about.


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## Thursday Girl

gosh, I've been away for awhile. It's so hard to stay up to date, seems like there are always things to do and never enough time. Really looking forward to my hubs coming home...someday. It keeps changing and I don't even believe him when he says he's coming home or done with this company. Not beacuase he is untrustworthy or trying to be an ass, just b/c , well Life is crazy. I am sad though because he won't be home Friday and he is supposed to take our 5 year old to a father duaghter dance and she was REALLY looking forward to it, and once she has something set in her mind, that's it you can't change her mind. She wants to "tap dance with him". I'm tempted to just not tell her she's missing it, but at some point she is going to wonder about it.

Now I am canceling our spring break trip, the same trip we cancled last summer. My 8 year old is taking it much better this time. The only way we are going is if we win the tickets to the white house easter egg roll. Have I said how much I hate being poor? and how much more I hate being poor and not even having my husband around?

everything is so much to deal with, yet I am oddly complacent about it at this point.

I have been following all of your stories, but haven't had time to comment. I do think of you ladies often, at least whenever my brain is in working order.

We(I) had the flu and the girls had a puking sickness, so not fun. Sorry you all got it Erin, hopefully it won't spread further for you all.

Gillian, maybe the job thing is a good thing, a lot of times I find things happen and they might suck when they happen, but later we find out that it was actually a good thing for a reason we just didn't know about at the time.

I am having fun following the pregnancies, although I have no deisre to be pregnant. It's exciting to watch you all start the adventure.

Junes is sleeping in the car and I am hanging out on the front porch right now, laptops are pretty cool. : )

dentists- I have only taken my oldest daughter. my 5 year old and Junes haven't been et. I know it says you are supposed to take them before that but it's REALLY hard to find a medicaid dentist and the one I did find only takes kids who or 6 or 7 and up.


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## Thursday Girl

omg, the baby has been nursing SOO much lately. I can't get anything done while the girls are at school b/c she nurses almost the whole time. I am so freaking tired from this single parent thing and last night at 2 when she wanted to nurse for the THIRD time I just couldn't have her nurse. My nipples hurt after hours of her nursing. so I told her
na nas went to bed, na nas are tired" she threw a fit she hit, kicked, screamed, yelled, cried. wouldn't let me touch her or comfort her. eventually she fell asleep and there she remains. I plan to keep this up. I need some freaking space, I need some time with my own dang body. Hopefully the day nursing isn't bumped up b/c of last nights rejection. i think she must be getting her molars or something.

oh and funny you all mentioned hitting because she just started hitting me or grabbing my face or spitting on me. uggh. I remember this with my younger two and I can't wait for this stage to end.

Sue, I thought about that stuff all the time. I was so worried about how my oldest would adjust.(she did great by the way, oved her little sister. Now that they are 8 and 5 she still loves her but they sure can annoy the crap out of each other lol. They both like the baby though.)


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## mckittre

Courtney - I'm sorry times are tough. I hope your husband gets home soon - I couldn't imagine taking care of 3 on my own. It's so funny to hear you call Juniper "the baby." Having an infant has shifted my perspective so much - I feel like Katmai is a gigantic grown up child now. 

Of course, my gigantic grown up child has been driving me nuts asking for nursing all the time the last few days. He was doing OK nursing just a couple times a day for short stints, and then he got sick, and then he got clingy. I've been saying no most of the time. Partly because I can't stand to nurse 2 kids all the time, and partly because with a newborn who's been a little sick and needs to gain weight more anyway, I really don't feel like I can let him take too much of her milk.

Discipline: Tantrums and whining here, luckily no hitting yet.

Can you guys give me your great indoor activity ideas for this age? I feel like we get stuck in a rut where all he wants to do is get books read to him all day long. "Read this book!" "Talk about this page!" Activities that he can pick up and continue himself after we introduce him would be especially awesome.


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## justKate

Courtney, you must be exhausted. I can't imagine parenting one alone, much less three. I think I would start to resent Huz in your situation, even though it sounds like he's doing what's best for the family. Ugh. I'm sorry that you're in this position. As far as spitting, I think that would push me over the edge. Yikes. I'm sure we'll get there eventually.

Erin, there isn't much that Aubs does independently, but she will "read" to herself sometimes. Like spread her books out on the floor and flip the pages of each one mumbling to herself. She will play with blocks for a while, if I give her suggestions now and then. "Can you make a long line? Can you stack them really tall? Can you put them in the baby stroller and push them around?" Maybe Katmai could put blocks in his big yellow truck and move them from one place to another. I read someone suggested sorting dry beans--pouring them in different containers. We play "fetch" with a soft frisbee and a soft ball. Roll the ball, kick it. Now throw it through the hoop? can you sit on the ball? Can you hold the ball and jump? A lot of it is directed, but at least I don't have to be on the floor doing it with her. You could make play-doh. Aubrey doesn't really get this yet, but I think some 2 year olds might. The Hokey Pokey, over and over again, making up your own silly verses. Practicing jumping or tumbling. Maybe in and out of a hula hoop laid flat on the ground? Aubs also loves her magna-doodle, or doodle pro or whatever they're called these days. (What? Did you learn that on the Twitter? I act like my grandma....) I'll ask her "What goes 'mmmmoooooo'?" Can you draw a cow?" Of course she can't, but it keeps her from asking me to draw a kitty over and over. We also do alot of playing mommy with Elmo. Is Elmo hungry? Does he need a diaper? Push him in the stroller? Not sure if that is helpful, but it's all I've got!

As for me, BFN this morning, but still no sign of AF. I made an appointment with my doctor for one month from now to either get a pg test (if AF never arrives, i'll definitely be pg) or a depo shot. FAM is just too risky when one of you wants a baby and the other doesn't pay attention.







So I'm trying to be at peace with that. And since this scare (the one I'm still in the middle of) I've started to realize that I can be at peace with it. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on BC...I'm considering an IUD or depo because I don't want to have to think about it very often. I'm sort of scared of the IUDs because I don't like the idea that you can conceive and then the embryo just won't implant.... But maybe Mirena doesn't work that way? I guess I just lean towards Depo because I had good luck with it for a long time (no periods, no side effects).

Hmm, where has Starling been? I'm going to crash her new DDC and get her a$$ back here....


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## Vegan Princess

Courtney: I know how you feel about wanting a bit of time to your own body. Especially since you have been nursing for SO long! Hope it gets better!

Erin: We love our bean bin. Just a big storage bean with dif colored dry beans and measuring cups and spoons. Put a sheet on the floor underneath so you can pick it up and dump it back in afterward. M like playdough but not for long periods. Stickers and a sheet of paper can occupy her for a while. Big beads with string (we got a set from melissa & doug). Also one of those sticker activity sets where they can stick it on a background over and over. I think you can find how to make your own online, but we bought ours. Putting a chair at the sink and letting makenna "wash" dishes (just a trickle of water and some cups and she's good). She doesn't play by herself all that long. But she is getting better...especially when she has her music on...she loves to listen to it and can hang out doing whatever for a while sometimes.

Kate: I had mirena. I had a lot of trouble w/the string poking DH when I first got it. Finally on the 3rd trip to the doc they got it short enough that it didn't bother him. Then I had trouble getting it out bc the string was short. Had no problems while it was in. But now I wonder if my hormone imbalance doesn't have to do with that. It releases progesterone - now I have a progesterone deficiency. Who knows. And Erin's fell out and she got pregnant and never knew it was missing! Either that or it's lost somewhere in her body! *ERIN*: Did they ever do a scan to find out??? Anyway, if I were to ever get another IUD, I would get copper, not the one w/hormones.

We went to an awesome play space today since it's raining. I'd been once when M was tiny (under a year) but didn't fully appreciate all there was to do then. We stayed for 2.5 hours with the other little girl I watch. They had SO much fun. And no fights. I just wish the place wasn't so expensive. Had all sorts of imaginitive play, 4 art project, a ball pit, a slide, roller coasters, things to climb on, wall of magnets, puppet theater, story time, etc.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

I'm here, I'm here! Just SO busy I can't seem to get anything done! My new DDC just isn't the same. Was ours that special or is it just that we know each other so much better?

*Courtney* ... Sounds like hard work, solo-parenting three children. I'm sorry that your husband won't be home to take your daughter to the dance. It's that kind of thing that sticks in our craw and builds sadness and hurt feelings. I hope she's okay with it, and that he can make it up to her. Hang in there ... he'll be home eventually, right? Any idea when?

*Cindy* ... That play space sounds awesome! I want to go with you guys next time! Glad to hear that you're getting some answers with your Baby Project.

*Kate* ... I have no words on wisdom on the actually birth control part of BC, but I am on it when not pregnant. It's the way that my endocrinologist 'creates' a cycle and gives me a closer to normal amount of hormones because my body doesn't produce adequate amounts. I don't think I'd be on them for actual birth control, but then, being a ****, I haven't had to worry about it. I think I'd lean toward the IUD, but then you hear such crazy stories about that too. In all honesty, if I were having sex with a man and needed birth control, I'd want to do FAM too, but would need to be mentally ready for whatever happened. Hard choices!

*Gillian* ... Any word on the job? Is this the same one that was going to be a daycare nightmare?

*Hitting* ... We went through a kicking stage a few months ago. We got the "Feet are Not for Kicking" book from the library (there's a "Hands are Not for Hitting" one too.) That helped. I also started doing more of an empathic approach after watching a mom whose son is very physical (hits, scratches, kicks, grabs). She points out how the other person feels, using their expression.

Something like this:

"Oh dear, look at her face. How do you think she's feeling?" The child names the expression, sad, angry, hurt, whatever. "Yes, she's sad. And do you know why?" The child asks why. "Because it hurt when you hit her, and now she's crying. She's upset. What could we do to make her feel better?" And then he usually apologizes quite genuinely, or offers to kiss the boo boo.

I like her approach because it becomes less about rules and more about natural consequences. It's a little hard to endure this approach when your child is the one being hit/kicked. The other day he grabbed Esmé's baby out of her sling and wouldn't give it back. The mom went on and on with her approach while Esmé was having a meltdown about her baby being taken away. I let the other mom do her thing though, and her boy did give the baby back. I told my DP about it and she said she would've grabbed the baby back. But, as hard as it was to let dd have a meltdown in order to display her reaction to the boy, it helped him learn that rules are for a reason. Makes sense? Wow, that was longwinded. I just want dd to understand the impact of her actions. She's not a hitter, and seems to be over her kicking us stage, but she does sometimes take toys. So this works for that too.

*Erin* ... We're all about our BEAN BIN too. I put it away after a couple of days and she forgets about it and then when I take it down again, it's brand new and full of excitement. As for other indoor activities, she has a few favourites, and will spend between half an hour to an hour doing them.

PLAYDOUGH: We also love playdough here too. We make a batch every couple of weeks or so.

PLAY KITCHEN: Esmé can spend a lot of time in her play kitchen, making us food and serving it to us. If you don't have room for one, before we got ours, I had a small suitcase that I drew burners and knobs on and kept a few kitchen-y things inside, and it was easy to put away.

WATER: The other day I put a big blanket down and a bunch of different containters with soapy water and she played with that for ages ('washed' all her animal figurines, dumped water in one container, then into another). Messy but fun.

REAL KITCHEN: I can set her up with measuring cups and flour and she can hang out on her stool making a great, big, fun mess for hours.

CHORES: She loves being tasked with 'washing' or 'cleaning' the kitchen chairs, floor, stove front, cabinets, etc.

DRAWING: She'll spend about twenty minutes alone with her crayons and paper.

DOLLS: Dressing, undressing, putting diapers on, nursing, consoling, etc.

PUZZLES: We need to trade for some new ones, but she does enjoy doing puzzles.

*AFM*: SO NAUSEOUS! I'm sure this baby is a boy. I feel so different this time. If I get the least bit hungry, I get so queasy. I had to pull over the ambulance en route to a call and get some beef jerkey so that I wouldn't vomit on the patient. It's hard! My first appointment is next week. I know the MW won't check for a heartbeat though. They don't do that until about week 15 or so, and I'll only be 11 weeks and a few days. I wish I could hear the heatbeat! I'm at that point where it's all worry and no reassuring kicks. You'd think the constant nausea would be reassurance enough, but no.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: Give it a few months.  I think you'll be good friends w/people in there by the time you give birth. The group sort of filters down a bit and you get to know everyone.


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## Everrgreen

I think this particular group from our ddc became closest after the little ones were born. There were a lot more people when it was just a 'ddc'. It's easier to get to know one another with smaller numbers!

I have decided to get a copper IUD. I do not want to go on hormonaly bc because it messed me up so much before. I've heard that some women have some crappy side effects but hopefully I won't be one of them :/ I'm actually in a place right now where all I want is a career and I don't care if I ever have another baby again. Such a strange thing for me as all I've ever wanted before is to be a mother to a bunch of kids.

The snow is melting and the weather is getting (a little bit) warmer here! I am so ready for spring and summer! Royce and I are going crazy being stuck inside with each other all the time! I tried the bean idea once but Royce just scatters them everywhere in a mad frenzy. He gets too excited sometimes and loves to throw things. He also doesn't play well on his own. I tend to just ignore him and eventually he will wander off to do something. But when I do play with him I have to do everything - hold the crayon, draw the picture, hold the book, flip the pages, hold the car, run it along the floor, etc. etc. etc.. He just likes to watch me play but I don't enjoy playing.

Courtney - I'm sorry you're having a rough time without your hubby  I saw on fb that he is on his way back for your daughter's dance (can't remember if it's Josie or Jewel..) I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he makes it in time for her!!


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## AKislandgirl

Starling: I'm feeling the same way. I'd rather just come here and talk to you guys! But I think in a bit of time it will be better.

Indoor Activities:

Rice bin: just like the bean bin others described.

Water color or finger painting: she loves this

Blocks/legos: building towers

Kitchen: mixing flours, measuring, etc....

Play Dough: sometimes she is into it, others not so much

Puzzles: digs them

Play silks: drapes hem around chairs, dolls, self, dogs

Chores: sweeping the kitchen floor, folding towels or diapers

She doesn't always stick with these for long periods... depends on her mood.

Birth Control: I don't know what I'd do. I don't use BC because it would be a miracle if I conceived with out drugs and we are willing to accept that miracle at this point.

Courtney: saw on FB that DH is heading home! Hope he arrives safely. So sorry for all of the stress you've had this year. FWIW, I just went through the process of night weaning Fiona and am so glad that I stuck with it. We had a rough first week but then things settled down. She's slept through 4 of the last 5 nights till sometime after 6am!! I let her nurse then she falls back asleep for a couple of hours. Way better then the 3x's or more a night we had before.


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## Mal85

Wow! Everyone jumped in at once!

I've been hanging around the November DDC. I feel the same way. It's not the same, but I figure it'll change as our pregnancies get further along. I lurk around the October DDC too since I'm due at the very beginning of November. I saw some drama over there on the baby names thread, what the heck?!

Owyn doesn't like to play by herself much. You'd think with kids her age here all the time, she would be content to just play with them, but not usually. I get a few minutes at a time. Her kitchen has been a big hit. She loves to cook. She got a wooden birthday cake and some wooden food, along with some metal pots and pans that came with utensils like a spatula and a ladle... she loves all those things. I think the oven mits are her favorite. She also loves to color, but that has to be supervised since I've now caught her coloring her kitchen a couple of times. If I give her the dust pan and the little handheld broom, she can entertain herself for quite some time. We haven't tried play dough. I haven't gotten quite that brave. Or the beans... I think she'd be much like Royce with the beans or any kind of water play inside. That would just result in her pouring the bowls of water on the floor. We'll do water play outside this summer, probably.

Honestly, the only thing that will hold her attention for more than a few minutes is her favorite movie, Annie. She's even started to act out some of the parts along with the movie. And she yells at Miss Hannigan when she's being mean to the orphans. She yells, "Stop it!!" at the tv.

Starling, I'm right there with you! I'm really hoping I don't still feel this way when I'm 11 weeks along. I'm hungry every hour and feel like I'll vomit if I don't eat something right away. I've stashed hard candies around the house and in my purse. Ice water helps too. Every day I want, no I NEED, a different thing to eat. Yesterday it was sandwiches, today it's been soup. That's all I can eat and anything else makes me feel like I'll be sick. Peanut butter toast is something I can eat anytime. But, now that you mention it, I could go for some beef jerky too! So far, my symptoms remind me a lot of my pregnancy with Owyn. I want the same kinds of things to eat too. I want fresh foods, cold veggies and fruit. It was great the summer I got pregnant with Owyn and all of that was in season and in my garden. Now it's harder to get my fix.

As for birth control... I'm thinking about getting an IUD after this baby is born. I'm leaning towards copper, but I haven't done a whole lot of research so we'll see. I don't like the idea of going on something with hormones again, it really messed with me before.


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## starling&diesel

*Mal* ... I am so disappointed to still be so nauseous! My nausea evaporated at about nine weeks with Esmé, which is a huge reason why I am convinced that this one is a boy. I'm not craving anything in particular this time, when last time it was kale and rice. I am in desperate need of serious protein at least every two hours. But so much food is making me nauseous. Last time, I could eat pretty much anything. This time, the thought of most food makes me want to hurl.

Another thing that keeps Esmé busy for a long time is playing 'picnic.' I lay a blanket out, she sets her guests around the blanket, gives them each a plate and teacup. I give her some food (cheese, grapes, edamame, etc) and she can hang out with her 'friends' for a good long time while the dog eats most of the food.

A great Value Village score (do you Americans have Value Village?) today ... a brand new Chou Chou baby doll still in the box for $7.99! Esmé fell in love! She carried it home in her sling and spent most of the evening nursing it.


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## AKislandgirl

Love Value Village!! And love great thrift store scores too! Such fun!

I need to eat every couple of hours as well. Most things go down pretty well but I can't skip a meal or snack or I'm totally out of it. I got some lacto-fermented carrots as an add in with my produce order last week. I know it sounds weird but holy cow it was the best ever. I feel like eating when you are pregnant is much like eating while you are camping. As long as you find a moment when you are not queasy your food is the best ever! I'm now on a quest to figure out how to ferment my own veggies!

I'm feeling a lot different with this pregnancy and also think I'm having a boy for that reason! We'll see. Mal and Starling, will you find out? We plan to at the 20 week U/S.

Fiona has a cold, again! I feel like she gets colds so often. Probably every other month. How often do your kids get sick. Any tips for boosting her immune system?


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## mckittre

Thanks for the ideas everyone! Scooping beans was definitely a hit, as was using his tiny plow truck in a pan of rice. He's always liked coloring, but usually just wants me to draw what he dictates (lately it's "bicycle-backhoes"). I tried playdough too. Previously when I'd gotten it out, he just scattered little pieces of it everywhere, but this time I made it into a big flat sheet, and got him to "make tracks" in it with his animal toys and cars. That worked great!

He loves cooking with me, but I'm not brave enough to leave him to do it on his own. Will try some of the other ideas later.

I felt pretty similar in my pregnancy both times, but had opposite gender babies, so I'm not sure I put much stock in that idea. Oh, and as for birth control, they did scan for my disappearing IUD after the birth and never found it (which is good). It must have just fallen out.

*Whining!* Why is Katmai whining all the time lately? He was sick, and is now better, but spends absolutely the entire day whining now, mostly for nursing (which I refuse to give him every 5 minutes, especially with a slow-gaining infant that really needs the milk). I don't know what to do! I started telling him that I didn't listen to that voice, but I'm refusing his requests anyway, so he hasn't got much incentive not to whine about it. He's driving me bonkers.


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## Vegan Princess

Erin: So glad that thing isn't floating around somewhere! As for the whining - M got a whiny and sick and it drove me nuts and it lasted forever after she was seemingly well. Perhaps he is still a bit under the weather? I'm sure he'll be back to normal once he is all better.

Kate: Did you test today???

As for pregs being dif and it being a dif gender: my best friend had 2 very dif pregs and both were girls...so who knows.

M gets a lot of colds. Mostly from the little girl we swap with. I think it's somewhat unavoidable if you have them doing activities around other little ones.

Cindy


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## justKate

Yep, I tested. I couldn't help it. I peed on a FRER and a target-brand blue dye one this afternoon, after holding it for like 5 hours. Stark white BFNs. Today i'm officially one day late, with no usual pre-AF spotting at all. So who knows. Mal said she got a BFN at 14 DPO, so i'm holding out hope until AF arrives. Grr. I have 2 more First Response and 1 more Target blue dye, so I'll just test every morning until AF comes. Or my temp drops. Or something.


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## Vegan Princess

Hmmm. And are you postiive you ovulated? Your chart looked a little ambiguous. I've got my fingers crossed for you!!

Ugh. We have guests and I just found a pill case with prescription meds in it on the floor! And Makenna was in there playing. You'd think people who have kids and grandkids would be more cognizant of this stuff. I found a pill or vitamin laying out earlier too.

Cindy


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## justKate

No, I'm not positive. I really don't have a clue.... Just wish something would happen so I can move on.









Pills laying around, yikes!

ETA: just looked at FF for the 100th time today. It does look like I O'ed when I overlay it with my average: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/320676 But I don't think I can tell for sure. Ugh.


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## Everrgreen

Royce has been very difficult since he turned 2. So much whining about everything. It has taken all of my effort to keep myself from going insane. He is also so clingy and constantly wants num num or a hug or a kiss or snuggle or to sit on my lap. Grrrrrr!! I am so touched out 99% of the time. Even at night he clings to me more than he used to. I wake up in the morning already annoyed with him. I am having a really hard time parenting this kid! BUT, I leave for the Bahamas in 2 weeks so that means 4 days and 3 nights of freedom!!! I am soooo looking forward to it. I wish I had booked it for a full week!

Kate - It does show a bit of a post-ovulation pattern. It is hard to tell.. At least you'll know one way or the other in couple days, right? Fingers crossed for you!

Cindy - Yikes, I would be annoyed also with adults leaving medicine around! Not cool at all! Luckily Royce doesn't ever put random things in his mouth, but still, I wouldn't want to chance it!


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## Everrgreen

Well we are off to a better start this morning. We got a good night sleep and Royce wasn't quite as bad last night (still woke up a few times but I pretended to still be sleeping and he didn't freak out). And this morning he wanted to stay in bed and watch Franklin so he did that while I went online. And now we've successfully finished breakfast without any meltdowns. Yay! Hope it keeps up!


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## Mal85

Gillian, I'll trade you. Owyn didn't take a nap yesterday.... not for lack of trying. She laid down for 2 hours but would not go to sleep. She was out last night by 8 and slept in until 8 this morning, but now it's like she got too much sleep. She has been meltdown after meltdown ever since she got up. She didn't like the cup I gave her this morning, she didn't like the pants I picked out for her, she didn't like the diaper I put on her or the breakfast I made her. She doesn't like the kids being here this morning.... basically she doesn't like anything this morning.


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## Thursday Girl

things Junes likes that haven't been mentioned.

scooping, organizing and sorting beans (okay that's been mentioned, test tubes and such are great for this.

spreading shaving cream on sponges.

pouring water. (we also do the washing dishes thing with the water at a trickle)

"playing" connect 4. she ikes to put the itlt epieces in the board, this used to keep her busy for 20-30 minutes.


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## Thursday Girl

oh yeah, chris drove for 20 hours on 3 hours of sleep and made it home in time to go to the dance with Josie. Then Saturday took Jewel to tea . I am loving having him home and hope he doesn't go away again.

Cindy I would be super pissed about the pills, you need to tak to them and let them know that is NOT okay!

Juniper has been super clingy, whiney, annoying, etc lately. I'm thinking maybe it's just an age thing b/c I do't know what ese it might be


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## justKate

Oh geez, the whining and the meltdowns over nothing. It puts me on edge. Especially whining "MINE" at the top of her lungs, because I removed her dirty diaper and am replacing it with a new one. I don't know what to do. I've yelled about whining more than I like to admit. [Exhasperated voice:] "AUBREY. Just STOP!! Tell mommy with words." Lately I've just been ignoring her until she gets it together. It doesn't feel very good though.

Courtney, so glad DH is home. Hopefully it will be a relief for you.


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## AKislandgirl

Oh Mamas. we had a rough night last night. Fiona was up for a couple of hours in the night. She'd cry and scream and yell "I don't want it!" even though we had no idea what it was she didn't want. One of us could get her quiet and settled and she'd be still for 5-10 minutes and then suddenly start all over again. DH finally gave up and went to the couch. At that point I just let her nurse for about 30 seconds and she rolled over and fell asleep finally. I just don't know what to do. We've been doing the night weaning for nearly a month. We had some great nights last week but this whole week has been hard and last night just too much. I don't really see how night weaning her has made things better for us... it's made it harder! I hope this is related to her cold but she's just about over that so I don't know. I'll take any advice you've got at this point because I think I'm going to lose it. I think I need to come to the Bahamas with you Gillian!


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## Everrgreen

AK - *hugs* That's really hard that Fiona is having such a rough time with nightweaning. It wasn't that easy for Royce either.. he still wakes and wants to nurse in the middle of the night. But I just can't anymore, I ignore him and he usually goes back to sleep after a minute or two of freaking out. If I need to I will offer a hug or snuggles instead. Although now he wakes for snuggles, but it's easier than nursing. Is there any way your dh can take over night time duties and you can sleep somewhere else? I've heard around mdc that a lot of couples do that. I think you just need to be consistent and maybe a bit tough at this point.

We continued to have a good morning this morning! Yay! And now he is napping so hopefully when he wakes up he will still be in a good mood. I was a bit annoyed though because I went to a children's consignment store to sell a bunch of Royce's clothes and they only took about 10 things. They said the rest was too outdated! It's all less than 2 years old! And it's BABY CLOTHES - how can they be outdated?? And most of the stuff was name brand and barely worn! Grrrr! I ended up dumping it all in a donation bin for Make A Wish, so at least I feel good about that


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## justKate

Gillian, we've got a consigment store like that too. It pisses me off. Like if it's not name brand from this season, they don't want it. I don't even know what's trendy in baby clothes this season. Who can tell? And who cares?

Sue, have you read Dr. Gordon's article on nightweaning? I found it really reassuring.

Sue/Mal/Starling--as for the sex of your babies, are you going to find out? Hoping for a boy to mix things up? I can see where it would be interesting to have a boy, but i'm afraid of cleaning poop out of boy parts so I think I'd hope for another girl. And all girls would make things easier in some ways.

My best friend that's supposed to be having boy/girl twins was recently told that they might both be boys, and she's super disappointed. I'm not sure what to say to her, except that a baby is a baby.... They're going to peek again in a couple of weeks so hopefully it was just an errant finger or something.


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## Mal85

I'm definitely going to find out. It can't come soon enough! We're hoping for a boy. Owyn is all the girl I can handle!


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## Vegan Princess

Courtney: I'm So happy your DH is home! And that he made it for the dance! Yay! I hope he's home for good! And that you get a nice afternoon or evening to yourself to relax. You so deserve it!

Sue: Sorry about the rough night! I think you just need to stick with it and it will eventually get sorted out. Makenna was up for an hour a couple nights ago crying unconsolably (even though she was in our bed when she woke up). Eventually DH took her downstairs and she saw the moon out the window and got all excited and talked about it...then got all upset again. Eventually she calmed down...but we have no idea why she was upset.

I told the guest to pick up her pills and put them elsewhere. I chose not to make a big deal and tell DH though bc they all left today. I already know to be extra vigilent when my MIL or FIL is here bc MIL is a bit flighty and FIL is getting alzheimers. I was shocked that this person left them out though! Anyway, I have the house back to ourselves again. But make sure you are extra careful when you have house guests who don't have little ones around anymore!

I am concerned Makenna has enlarged adenoids. She snores and makes so much noise when she is sleeping. She has trouble breathing through her nose at night every night and ends up taking breaths from her mouth. She also has pauses for a few seconds between breaths...her dr said this is normal but I also saw it listed as a symptoms of enlarged adenoids. So I might have an ENT check her. I had surgery on my adenoids when i was around 3!

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

Wow so much activity.

Thursday I'm so glad your dh got home in time for the dance.

Sue I really hope the nightweaning improves for you. We haven't nursed here in about 4 months and she still occassionally will cry for boobies but I just tell her they are empty and she seems to get that. Although ds says well they were empty before we 'got' D and then they filled up again so let's just have another brother. lol.

Justkate I hope that AF shows herself for you.

Erin I hear you on the whining. Ugh! I model a nice voice and an angry voice and a sad voice and a whiny voice and then tell her not to use her whiny voice.

Both my pg's were so different with each sex. But with dd my ds KNEW it was a girl. He said he was having a sister and never once waivered from that. My cousin's little boy just told her (she's about 12 weeks) that he is having a brother. She's having the same kind of pg she did with her first. So I don't know..... maybe ask your kiddos what they think it is.

Gillian the bahamas sounds fabulous!

Oh I'm soooo tired ladies. I'm tired and unmotivated and it's driving me crazy. I need a good kick in the rear.

As for the immunity I supplemented vit D this season with the carlson drops and that made a huge difference for us.

In house activities: Tissue boxes she loves putting things like playsilks and small toys into and out of them. Oh and tents they make a lot of tents and drag all sorts of things into them.

I need some noncandy ideas for easter. We will do the boiled eggs and the little jelly belly's but that's about all I can do for candies that are soy free, dairy free, gluten free. I will probably make some tiny truffles and cover them with foil too.


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## Vegan Princess

I need easter ideas too! I bought stickers and hair clips and a little mr potato head that was $3. But I might end up giving that to her as a reward for teeth brushing.

On the topic of teeth brushing....we started doing a sticker chart if she lets me brush and it has worked the last 7 nights! She still fusses be she usually relents. And she is THRILLED with her chart and counting the stickers. She was allowed to get a prize after 5 stickers but she said she just wanted the sticker so I guess we won't bother with that part.

Nilla: I've been tired too. I know it's bc I'm not getting my usual amount of exercise (as little as that may be). I also recently added an iron supplement.

We had another bad night here too. M was up and crying on and off for almost 2 hours. Finally after DH and I went back to sleep she layed down on me and went back to sleep. She wouldn't tell us what was wrong. No fever. She perked up downstairs again and then wanted to sleep in her crib (had been in our bed) but when DH tried to leave she woke up and went back to crying so she did end up back in bed with us. Is it too early for nightmares? More likely is the last molar might be coming through. Thankfully that is the last tooth!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Well... last night she started up again. Dh never yells at her but let out this huge "Fiona there is no Nu-Nu. Time to Sleep!!!" She quit crying and went to sleep!







She woke up one other time and squeaked a little but went right back to sleep when I rubbed her back. DH and I declared last night that between the two of us surely we can be stronger then the will of a 2 year old!! I just wish I was at the other end of this, not in the middle. Ugh! And please tell me that this won't be going on when we bring our new baby home!!

Easter: I've been thinking about this some. We have a $30 gift certificate to A Toy Garden for entering a picture of Fiona opening her Christmas gift we got from there. We entered it into their photo contest and got 2nd place! So I think I'll get another of there child size bolga baskets and then get some colored chalk and maybe a book from there. I'll also add some new hair clips, some bubbles maybe, and some jelly beans. I'm not into giving her lots of candy. I've been eying this little stuffed animal rabbit that looks real (not cartoony) at a local shop here. Don't know if I want to spend that much money though.

Some other ideas: new toothbrush, shleich animals (they have cute rabbits!), crayons or other art supplies, sidewalk chalk, bubble bath, new underwear!! (motivations anyone!)


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## Mal85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl*
> 
> Well... last night she started up again. Dh never yells at her but let out this huge "Fiona there is no Nu-Nu. Time to Sleep!!!" She quit crying and went to sleep!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She woke up one other time and squeaked a little but went right back to sleep when I rubbed her back. DH and I declared last night that between the two of us surely we can be stronger then the will of a 2 year old!! I just wish I was at the other end of this, not in the middle. Ugh! And please tell me that this won't be going on when we bring our new baby home!!
> 
> Easter: I've been thinking about this some. We have a $30 gift certificate to A Toy Garden for entering a picture of Fiona opening her Christmas gift we got from there. We entered it into their photo contest and got 2nd place! So I think I'll get another of there child size bolga baskets and then get some colored chalk and maybe a book from there. I'll also add some new hair clips, some bubbles maybe, and some jelly beans. I'm not into giving her lots of candy. I've been eying this little stuffed animal rabbit that looks real (not cartoony) at a local shop here. Don't know if I want to spend that much money though.
> 
> Some other ideas: new toothbrush, shleich animals (they have cute rabbits!), crayons or other art supplies, sidewalk chalk, bubble bath, new underwear!! (motivations anyone!)


You just reminded me I still have about $45 store credit at Franklin Goose from the peer review thing they did last year! I had banked it and then the hold got extended for another 6 months back in October







... I might actually be able to use it by Easter, though. That's a great idea!

I had thought about art supplies, but she got some for her birthday and she already had crayons, sidewalk chalk, etc. So, I've been trying to think of something else... new underwear is a good idea. She loves her panties, even though all she does is pee in them!


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## Everrgreen

Oh I think I'm going to get Royce underwear too! Good idea  Spring is potty learning season here  I will probably also get him a couple of things for playing outdoors. Plus he is getting his balance bike (finally!) I hope he will like it!

I've been feeling better yesterday and today. I started working out again on Sunday after not making it for a couple weeks so maybe that's why. I did a really intense core body toning class last night and I am sooo sore today. I'm supposed to do a spinning class tonight with my friend but I'm not sure if I can! I need to squeeze in all the workouts I can so I'm ready for my bikini in the bahamas!

Tomorrow I have court with my ex again (hopefully the last time though!) We could have finished last time but he hadn't brought anything to complete the financial statement. So I sent him an email to remind him this time, but he never responded. Maybe I should call.. Ugh, that thought makes me sick but it might be better than having him come unprepared again. I'm also going to have to bring Royce tomorrow as I have no babysitter. So ex will be seeing Royce for the first time since January. I hope that goes ok. It will be such a relief to have all of this done!

AK - I have to be tough like that with Royce. I don't feel bad about it. I need my sleep and he's old enough to understand that nursing doesn't happen in the middle of the night.

OK, just for fun I'm going to give my guesses for the 3 pregnant mama's (note: I have no talent at guessing, I thought Royce would be a girl ) BUT, here goes:

AK: Girl

Mal: Boy

Starling: Boy

I'm hoping I at least get one right


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## starling&diesel

*JustKate* ... any AF news?

*Nilla* ... My winter energy is always tapped out by the time spring comes, and it seems that it always takes a few weeks of budding flowers and chirping birds and longer days for my energy to start to come back. I hope you're feeling better soon!

*Sue* ... Hang in there! It's so worth it to have your boobs back at night. Notice I didn't say 'have your nights back,' because the nighttime parenting just n-e-v-e-r ends. E is not sleeping well lately. She's congested and it's waking her up. Poor thing. She's not rested when we get up in the morning, and it's making her days pretty tough.

*Gillian* ... I'm so excited for your trip to the Bahamas! It'll be awesome. How are you feeling about leaving Royce? As for guessing the babes, I think you'll be right for me. Esmé is convinced that we're having a boy. And so am I. Someone asked earlier whether or not we'll find out ... probably not. We like the surprise!

*Mal* ... Yay for forgotten money! That'd be fun to spend.

*Easter* ... Geez, forgot all about the Easter Bunny. Hmm. When is Easter? We do have the balance bike that we didn't give her for her birthday. Could give her that. We didn't really get Easter presents when I was a kid. Is it the done thing?

*AFM*: We have our first midwife appointment this afternoon. I made the visit with the 'good' midwife, and I hope that the one I don't get along with won't be there, so that we can talk frankly with the 'good' midwife about our reservations about going with their team again. I do want to go with the same midwife that delivered E, but I wish I could opt out of seeing her partner. The good thing is that there are three of them on the team now, so the odds of ending up with the one I don't get along with are less. I'm debating whether or not I'm going to beg for her to try the doppler today. Normally they don't until about week 15 or so, but I'd sure love to hear that reassuring little gallop!

I had to follow up on a consequence yesterday. E was tired and not feeling well, and we had to go up to the seamstress to collect my uniform pants (she made them into mat pants but it cost $80!!!) on the bus, and she was so good on the way there, but on the way back was ignoring my safety requests and poking my face and not listening. I'd promised her that we could go get yogurt-covered-rice-cakes if she behaved, but she kept pushing the limits. I warned her twice and then told her that we would be going straight home without her treat because she was not listening. This was forty blocks from home, and she cried the whole way home, trying to bargain and cajole and beg for her treat. I told her that it was okay to be upset, and that we could try listening again the next time we go on the bus. It was a rough ride home for everyone. That's the first time I've had to follow through! It was hard!


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## justKate

Sue, don't feel bad. At two they are old enough to understand. They don't have to like it, but they have to accept it. Aubs still throws a fit every night because she hates sleeping. Now and then Huz has to come up the stairs and growl at her to STOP. She can turn it off immediately. Drives me batty.

Starling, hope E's congestion goes away soon. I'm the one struggling with consequences in my house. Aubs likes to throw something, and then scream for it. Or ask for milk 20 times and then reject it and ask for juice instead. Or throw her pillow off the bed and then scream "my pillow!" over and over. I need to just give a warning and then not get it for her. I think I underestimate her comprehension sometimes because she's not very verbal. I need to get over that too.

Nilla, I know what you mean about a lack of motivation and needing a kick in the rear. I'm really slacking this week for no reason. Easter ideas--well I'm not doing much. I hid the easter basket from last year, so she's getting that again. Probably little boxes of rasins because she still considers them a treat. (I know, I'm a dork.) We probably won't do much. I have some little things that my mom sent that I'll put in there--an Elmo notepad and an Elmo stamp. When I was a kid we got a gift that would fit in the basket, and a chocolate easter bunny, and candy in eggs. We got things like a stuffed platypus, new pajamas, a can of tennis balls, a VHS tape. Maybe play-doh? Stickers are always fun. I know some people go in the birthday party aisle and get those little goody bag things to put in eggs or halloween treat bags...Aubs got a little comb tiara at halloween and I thought that was great.

Gillian, it will be good to have that out of the way. Hopefully this will be the end of it. Your bahamas trip is going to be an awesome reward. Take pictures! I can never get over how white the sand is. Remind me, when do you leave?

Cindy, I think I'm going to steal your sticker idea for pottying. Aubs uses the potty all day at daycare (for pee) but refuses to use it at home. I might tape a sheet of stickers in the bathroom and give her one every time she uses the potty. Pure bribery; not even a sticker chart. 'Cause this is getting rediculous. I suspect her daycare teachers think i'm a failure.

Mal, have you officially dropped a few of your daycare kiddos? Sorry if you posted that already, I missed it... I'm still holding out hope that I can join you in the Nov. DDC.

So, *14DPO and no sign of AF*. But I got a BFN yesterday afternoon--like stark white. Weird because my chart is smokin' hot now. So if my temp is still up tomorrow morning i'll test again, I guess. I'd just really like to know, either way.

Has anyone noticed that all movies are scary? Like even Finding Nemo? Aubrey likes Finding Nemo, but she cried the first time she saw it. She kept saying "Fish daddy, no know?! Memo, away!" Sort of a scary concept, I guess. The other movie we've watched is Curious George, which was not scary at all, IMO, but she still cried when George almost fell from the balloons and when George was taken back to Africa. It concerns me a little that she gets so emotionally engaged in this stuff. Are there any other movies that are 2 year old appropriate and not scary?


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## justKate

And I'm going to do gender-guesses, too, I just need some time to think on it!!


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## Mal85

I haven't officially dropped any right now. I did talk to my friend whose little boy was coming and is quite the handful. We agreed that he wouldn't come on the same days my semi-full time infant comes, since she was coming first she kinda had dibs on the spot. So, he's only coming one day a week now. I'm waiting until the baby that's going to be born in May starts coming before I make any official cuts. He should start sometime in July. I talked to his mom recently about what her plans are, her 2 year old daughter has been coming to me since she was 14 weeks old so I always assumed their new baby would too. I think she's struggling a little with the idea of two kids in daycare. So, she said she will definitely go back to work for a little while, but it's possible she will end up deciding it would be best to SAH while the kids are little. So, I don't want to make anything official until she makes a final decision. If things work out the way I'd like, I would ideally only keep those two kids. So, I really need to know where they stand before making anything official. I don't want to end up losing all my income!

I do have it worked out so that I never have more than 3 daycare kids here at a time. DH and I are getting ready to sell our tiny car and trade up for a minivan. Once we do that, I'll actually be able to fit all the kids in my vehicle, so I'm looking forward to lots and lots of trips to the park this spring and summer!

There is still a small possibility that a part time WAH position will be opening up in my area. It'd be 20 hours a week and bring in just a little more income than I do right now, technically working 50 hours a week! If that happens, I'll definitely jump on that. It'd be a great job to have with kids and I'd be able to set my own hours, so it's very flexible. I'm not pinning any hopes on it though.

Gillian, I hope you're right! We really want a boy. It's possible that this would be our last. DH would like to be done after two, but I want to wait a few years and see how we feel when these two start school. I might want just one more. But if this is our last, I'd like to have one of each. However, my symptoms have been very similar to my pregnancy with Owyn, but I've been feeling boy since day one and when I picture actually having the baby, a boy is all I see. I was the same way with Owyn in the sense that I could only imagine her as a girl and that gut feeling turned out to be right, so we'll see!

Kate, I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you!! I couldn't believe how long it took me to get a BFP. I really thought we'd missed that cycle and I hadn't ovulated. Which would be why I went ahead and started the Provera. I was that convinced. And... surprise! Here came a BFP at 22 dpo. I hadn't tested since 14 dpo, so I'm not sure when it would have showed in that week.

As for following through... I try sooo hard to always follow through. A lot of times that just makes my life more difficult. Like yesterday, we were playing outside and it was the most gorgeous day we've had all year, so I was hoping we'd spend the whole afternoon out there. Owyn just kept trying to leave the yard. We don't have a fence, but she does know not to go in the alley or to the other side of the garage where I can't see her. But that's all she wanted to do. After about the third time of chasing her, I said "If you leave this yard one more time, we will go inside". Not five minutes later, she was headed to the other side of the garage again, so inside we went. It sucked for all of us since we'd only been outside about thirty minutes, but I had to follow through. That's usually what it looks like here. She gets a few chances, then she gets a warning and only one warning. Then it's the consequence I've promised. She still pushes the limits more than any two year old I know, but I just remind her that Mommy is more stubborn than she is.









And can I just say, I'm loving that spring is here! We played outside yesterday morning and nap time went soooo much smoother! They all fell asleep in no time. Then we got the little bit of outside play in the afternoon and Owyn spent over an hour outside with Daddy just before bedtime and she was out in less than 10 minutes once she came inside!


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## starling&diesel

*JustKate* ... We love the old school Winnie the Pooh. Fingers crossed for your elusive BFP!

*Mal* ... I have to watch myself with not enforcing consequences that would suck for me too. Especially if she's actually going to push the limits now! Good reminder, thank you. I OFTEN say something like, "If you don't get your boots and jacket on right now, we won't be going to the library, park, errand, auntie's, etc." It's always worked until now, so I guess I should stop saying it if I'm not going to actually going to do it, eh? Who 'da thunk it.


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## Vegan Princess

We love the old winnie the pooh too. Just started watching recently. I was so mad this morning. I got a nature video about horses from the kid's video section at the library. DH watched it with her this morning and said it had lots of sex scenes, fighting scenes and I got down just in time to turn it off before they (the horses) killed the newborn baby that couldn't walk! I will be complaining - definitely not appropriate for little ones. I think M is little enough to not be disturbed by it yet though. She just liked the horsies. But a kid a little older def would be.

Ugh bean bin! I turned my head for 2 minutes to put away breakfast leftovers and M brought a huge cup of beans upstairs and dumped them all over her bedroom! We've been having to enforce taking away the bean bin when she can't stop throwing beans. That doesn't go over very well.

Ladies, I need conception vibes sent my way! I'm definitely ovulating today. It has felt wayyy more intense than I can remember...maybe even more than on clomid. Perhaps the accupuncture is helping already. DH and I had a couple new strategies to try this month. I don't have a lot of hope that we will conceive on our own now that we know his count but we have twice already so who knows. I'm still gonna hope! Ahhh the lovely 2 week wait. Maybe I won't obsess so much this time since I know our odds are low.

Anyone planning on doing preschool? If so, when? I'm learning that most start at 2 yrs 9 months and our little ones miss the cutoff for this fall. Most don't take kids in January, which is when I was thinking would be good to start. So it looks like it won't be until fall of 2012. I just found out our city does a program for 2 hours 2x/week. Those are in 8 week segments. I might sign her up for that. I found out they have an opening for April but that seems to soon. Maybe in the fall we will start that. It's not a lot of free time for me but it sounds like a good intro to being away from mom and getting some fun social interaction. I guess our kiddos miss the school cutoff too so they won't be starting kindegarten until fall of 2014 (here at least). So even starting fall 2012, M would sitll get 2 yrs preschool in. I go back and forth about whether she should go or not. But I think she is really social and would love it.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mal85*
> 
> You just reminded me I still have about $45 store credit at Franklin Goose from the peer review thing they did last year! I had banked it and then the hold got extended for another 6 months back in October
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... I might actually be able to use it by Easter, though. That's a great idea!
> 
> I had thought about art supplies, but she got some for her birthday and she already had crayons, sidewalk chalk, etc. So, I've been trying to think of something else... new underwear is a good idea. She loves her panties, even though all she does is pee in them!


Hate to burst your bubble but Franklin Goose crapped out on everybody. They send out emails saying they aren't giving the store credit but you can get a 40% coupon from them via emal. Sucks.

Scrolling back up now to catch up with the other posts...

I'm back!

Kate: I sure hope you get that BFP! Fingers Crossed! Shows we watch and consider gentle: Winnie the Pooh, Little Bear, and Little Bill

Cindy: Fingers crossed and baby vibes your way too!

We never did big gifts for Easter. Always just candy and a few trinkets in the basket. One year I got a live Rabbit though!! 

I so wish we would have some decent spring weather. It was snowing earlier... Have I mentioned I'm so over living on this Island. Every winter gets worse and worse. I need real seasons!

Well who knows about the sex but Fiona always says she's having a baby brother. I said maybe a baby sister, "No baby brother!" We'll see in a few months! I can't wait to find out!! I would love a boy so that we'd have one of each. I'm not sure DH can handle more then two kids! Another wait and see!

Hope the appt went well today Starling! Did you bribe her into trying for a listen at the heartbeat?!

Hey Erin, I caught the tail end of you and Hig on the radio this morning. I would have loved to hear the whole show because kids in the woods is something so important to me as a former environmental educator. Great to hear your voice and mention of the kids though!


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## Mal85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl*
> 
> Hate to burst your bubble but Franklin Goose crapped out on everybody. They send out emails saying they aren't giving the store credit but you can get a 40% coupon from the. Sucks.
> 
> Scrolling back up now to catch up with the other posts...


Oh that is such crap! I was able to use part of my store credit right after I got it, so a least a got a little bit out of it. But really?! They should not have run that promotion if they weren't prepared to back it up. Pretty sure I won't do anymore shopping there.









Cindy, sending all the baby vibes I can muster!!


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mal85*
> 
> Oh that is such crap! I was able to use part of my store credit right after I got it, so a least a got a little bit out of it. But really?! They should not have run that promotion if they weren't prepared to back it up. Pretty sure I won't do anymore shopping there.


I'm feeling the same way!


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## AKislandgirl

oh yeah... you guys wanna see how big I am this time I around? This is my 11 week belly!!


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## Vegan Princess

I just have to say OTHER PEOPLE's pregnancies go SO fast! I can't believe you guys are almost in your 2nd trimester! Love the belly Sue!


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## Mal85

Sue that is so cute! I can't wait to start showing more. I'm a little over 7 weeks right now and DH told me last night he thought I was getting a little baby bump already. I think it's mostly bloating, but I still like it!


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## justKate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess*
> 
> I just have to say OTHER PEOPLE's pregnancies go SO fast! I can't believe you guys are almost in your 2nd trimester! Love the belly Sue!


So true! I looked at pictures of myself at like 9-12 weeks, and I have looked more pregnant for the last 2 years than i did then. Ugh.

Sue you look great. I think its awesome to show sooner--you can get into maternity pants earlier!


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## mckittre

Despite no nap, Katmai had a wonderful day today, which is awesome.

Cindy - good luck!

AK - it was snowing here today too. Beautiful big fat flakes. I decided to embrace it, and Katmai and I went out tracking the dogs and ourselves in the snow. The other seasons will come. They're just a lot shorter than winter.  It was a fun interview this morning - and Katmai got a good visit with his best little friend while we were talking. I'm sorry the nightweaning is so hard. If it makes you feel better, I didn't start until halfway through pregnancy at least, and he was done nursing at night long before the baby showed up. Of course, now that she's here, I've gotten lazy again, and Katmai usually crawls in with us for an early morning nursing at 6AM or so.

Took the plunge to start putting Katmai in underwear yesterday. He's basically perfect with pee when naked, but the concept of remembering to take his underwear off was hard - about half misses, then a few times we convinced him to try in time. And he never ever tells us when he has to go, so I worry we won't be able to potty train him all the way until he's a lot better coordinated dealing with his own clothes than he is now.

Preschool: Some mom friends and I are starting a little coop preschool type thing a couple days a week this spring (kids 1yr old to 5 yrs old). We figure we'll just have fun with it, and get them all together to do various outdoor and other activities and see how it works out.

Easter: The last thing Katmai needs is any more stuff. But I used to love dyeing and looking for eggs when I was little, so we'll probably do that with him.


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## Thursday Girl

I have 3 girls and every single pregnancy was very different, just saying.

Easter- we wil be doing some candy, and some little toys, Great things for easter baskets we've done in the past- seeds, shovels, rakes, buckets, chalk, bubbles, books, magnifing glass, bug box, you know springy things. we have also done cd's, and whatever little toy they were into. Rightnow Junes really likes the little strawberry shortcake toys so she will probably get osme of them or some sesame street toys.

as for her balance bike, she won't ride it but she likes to walk it around and say "my bike" Yesterday she did sit on it and let me push her around.

another thing your kids might like. blocks. Junes enjoys stacking them (and stacking my spice containers, tea canisters, and soup cans). My oldest at this age loved to organize things. she would take her animals and organize them byt type, then color, then size, etc. She did this all on her own though so I don't know how you would even suggest that.

Gillian, he hasn't seen Royce since january? (my town is incredulous). What a freaking a$$. I didn't realize that.

Sue, cute belly.

nightweaning- havenot continued with it.

okay I need to go clean my living room. Loved catching up with you all and read about what's goign on.


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## Everrgreen

Well ex couldn't make it to court this morning so we had to adjourn. In his defense we did get a huge pile of snow and he is coming from 2 hours away. Still frustrating though. We go back April 13th so hopefully it will get done then!

Courtney - Yep, he came twice in January, after not seeing him since mid-August. He saw him once in August, once in July. He was a bit more frequent before that but he has never really been involved. Even before we separated he wasn't that involved (with the exception of Royce's first few months). Definitely an a$$, I don't understand him at all anymore.

Sue - So cute!!! I was so excited to show with Royce but it took FOREVER!

Kate (I think you asked this, I can't see the previous page..) - I leave for the bahamas on April 3rd! Woohoo! And I'm staying until April 6th. I really can't wait. It is going to be awesome  My best friend is getting married on April 5th so it will be a huge celebration with lots of friends at an all inclusive resort.

Oh, and you mentioned before about boys being difficult to clean. I would have thought girls would be harder?? All the crevices.. I've never found boy diaper changes to be that difficult.


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## Everrgreen

Ok I'm on the previous page now 

Cindy - Definitely sending you lots and lots of conception vibes!!! Happy BDing!!!

And Royce will be in daycare starting in September when I go back to school. Oh I just looked it up and he will switch to 'preschool' at 30 months. Which would be only a couple weeks after he starts so maybe they will just start him in preschool. Not sure. Anyway, he's been on the waiting list since last September and they said it takes a year to get in so hopefully he will get in in time! If not I will have to find another daycare for him. But this one is rated one of the top 10 in Canada.. and it's affiliated with my university so he will be just down the hall from where my classes are. Which would be so awesome.


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## starling&diesel

*Sue* ... Yes, we got to hear the heartbeat! Esmé took her 'baby' along too, so the midwife checked the doll over as well. Esmé was very impressed.

The crappy thing is that our wonderful midwife is leaving town in September, so we have to switch teams, because I'm not staying on her team without her there, when the other woman and I don't get along very well. Sucks, but at least we're in.

We took Esmé to the ER last night for her incessant cough. I was hoping they could prescribe some real medicine for her that would help her sleep. She was hacking and crying and tossing and turning for five hours with no relief. We got through triage and talked to a nurse who took her vitals and he said that the only thing the doc would likely prescribe is codeine. We left. It was going to be another three hour wait. I long for the days when there was cold medicine on the shelves for kids! We give her the homeopathic stuff, but it ain't doing anything.

Now, this morning, after having had no sleep, I have to go to a mandatory training course for work. Wonderful. E will be home with dp, which is fine, but I wish I could be home with her. Sigh. Gotta go.


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## AKislandgirl

Gillian: Sorry about the court date. Hopefully with this next one it can be wrapped up. He really is an a$$. Can't imagine not seeing my child for that long. I'll say it again... You are an amazingly strong Mama! Royce is lucky he got you!

Starling: Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear that Esmé is still sick and not sleeping. I sure hope she gets on the mend soon. Poor baby. And also bummer to know about the midwife you like leaving town. I hope you find someone you click with. How great to hear the heartbeat!! I hope I get to at my appt tomorrow! It's such an amazing sound!

Preschool: I'm not happy with my choices here so I doubt I'll send her here. I like the idea of starting something with some other parents though, Erin. I'll have to pick your brain a bit more about that. I've been interested in doing some sort of toddler/preschool hiking or outdoor group. We'll see. We are leaning towards homeschooling Fiona anyway but if we move somewhere with a great situation we'll send her there. Sept 1st is the cutoff for preschool/ school here so she couldn't go next year anyway. They don't start mid year.

We had such a better night last night. Thank God! Fiona was coughing a lot but didn't wake up more then once. She settled down easily. I'm hoping this is the tale end of her cold, I hate it when she's sick.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: Yay for the hearbeat! Sorry about the midwife situation. So do you need to find a whole new practice or are there other teams within this one? I'm bummed bc I loved my birth center and midwife but we moved further away and now the birth center relocated even further away. So when the time comes, I will need to find someone new as well. It's funny bc the birth center is walking distance from DH's office now...too bad he's not the one who would have to get there in a hurry! Anyway, I hope E is feeling well again soon!

Gillian: Drat, I hope things get resolved soon! I agree, you are an amazingly strong woman!! You should feel proud of all the wonderful mothering you have done, all on your own!

Co-op preschool is actually my first choice. There are 3 in our immediate area and a couple further away. I lean toward 1 though bc I have a number of friends who send their kids and love it.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Preschool doesn't start around here until 3 years old. So, she won't be starting this year. She'll start is Fall of '12. There aren't a lot of great preschool options for us, but there is one wonderful Montessori school. I did some work there while I was in college and just fell in love with the place, so Owyn will for sure be going there. They actually recently expanded and now have a program that runs through 8th grade, but it's very small and very expensive, so I'm not sure if she'll keep going after preschool or not. She may go to public school once she starts kindergarten.

Is it bad that I kinda wish she could start preschool this fall??


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## starling&diesel

*Sue* ... so glad that you had a better night! Here's hoping you'll get to hear the heartbeat tomorrow.  It's so reassuring!

*Gillian* ... That sucks about court being postponed. Do you think your ex really wants what he's asking for or is he being coached?

*Cindy* ... That's too bad about your midwife team. I'm so sad not to have my first choice, but at least I don't need to move practices. They do have other teams within the group. It's a very good practice, and is very sought after, but because we are previous clients and are loved by our midwife, she's going to get us connected with another team. A really good one that is made up of three queer midwives, which is a bonus for us.

*preschool* ... We're aiming to homeschool, so probably won't do formal preschool. We are part of something called "Young Playlearners" group, which is a group of API homeschooling families who get together outside once a week, and inside once a week. They do various play-based activities and have API discussions. We haven't been able to go very often, but if we stay here that would be the start of our homeschool community. There is also Hoola Hoot, which is a little further away, but is another pre-homeschool co-op group. And once she's school-aged, we will likely register as a homeschooling family with an annex connected to a local school. The do a bridging program at a satellite location, and are available to help with any challenges, and kids can go 0-5 days a week to connect with other kids. I like the sound of that.

*however* ... I don't know if we'll be able to stay in this community. It's very expensive, and we yearn for a yard and a smaller town like where we were living before moving here. So who knows!


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## Vegan Princess

OMG Starling - you DO love moving! LOL! It's nice to have a yard. But I realized today that we have played in it like 0 times since moving here. Probably bc it's been raining so much. I'm sure we'll use it more down the road when the weather is nice. Are you sure you'd be happy giving up your community? Weren't you bummed being 20 minutes away? I can understand money being the driving factor though! Being able to stay home and have a comfortable life is worth a lot!

Can't figure out if M has pink eye or not! Yesterday after nap she woke up with a little bit of crust and then her eyes were teary and she had some yellow eye boogers. Today I expected her to wake up all goopy and gross but she was fine. Then after nap again, she has had yellow eye boogers. Not an insane amount. But not normal. And her eye itself is not red at all. But she has dark circles under them. I guess I'll see how it looks tomorrow. I'm sure she is going to wake up all sick on my day that she goes to my friends house for babysitting. LOL.


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy are you still nursing? If you are just squirt breastmilk in her eye, it'll clear it up lickedty- split

preschool- June will go where her sisters are going. they start at 3-3 1/2. If she is ready at 3 she will start half way through the year, if not she'll wait until she is 3 1/2.


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## Nillarilla

I'm going to say all boys for my guess.

Gillian Yay for bahamas, boo for your court date.

Cindy sending fertile vibes your way!

Starling I'm certain you will get the midwife you need. Yay for heartbeats, always feels so reassuring to hear it. Have you tried an essential oil burner with thyme, eucalyptus and lavender? This combo works for us we burn it before bed to cleanse the air. We also add a few drops to her jammies. Oh and sometimes opening the window works if it's croupy. One night I had to sleep on the couch under an open window with blankets piled on us in winter because ds was coughing so badly.

Thanks for all the easter ideas everyone.

Consequences: I haven't really had to give many to dd. Ds on the other hand had to be hauled out of walmart the other day because he started to throw a fit. I'm running out of consequences for him and nothing is working. I just keep repeating This too shall pass.... Even though it feels like it won't. Made up a chore and listening sticker chart for him today. He gets $4 at the end of the week if he has accomplished all his tasks.

PL dd had her first accident in a long time. I was sleeping in the spare room because dh has been so restless and I didn't hear her wake. She will not get up and go by herself which is frustrating. She is perfectly capable but won't do it by herself. Even though she wants to do everything else by herself and will scream if you try and help her.

Preschool ds went to the Y because that's where dh works but dd will probably go to the french centre next door to us since we have decided on french immersion for school. Plus it means no driving which is a plus but I dont know when it starts I should figure that out.


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## AKislandgirl

Nillarilla: Have you heard back about school yet? I'm sorry if I missed that.

We had a quick prenatal appt today. We heard the lovely sound of the babie's heartbeat. We are getting about 160 bpm which is the same as from the 8 week U/S. Fiona's was always in the 180 range... I just love hearing that heartbeat!

How is Esmé feeling today? I hope she's on the mend.


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## justKate

hmm, preschool. Aubs is in daycare now, so I've never really thought about it. I'm pretty sure she would get booted out of anything that actually required her to sit still for any period of time. I'm not a huge Waldorf fan but I can see where it would be great for a kid like her. Where she is now, she's with 5 other two year olds, and they basically have snack, sing, play outside, have lunch, nap, snack, and play outside. Some letters, numbers, book reading, and art thrown in there somewhere. It works, and she loves going. Once we move and i'm at home, I'm not sure what we'll do. Huz is not going to go for paying for "childcare" when I'm home, so it will have to be very part time if at all. I'm going to explore options, because I'll go out of my mind if I don't get some kind of break every week.


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## Nillarilla

Nope haven't heard yet. My SIL is an academic advisor and she says I should know by April.


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## Mal85

I had a sonogram today and baby looks good. Heart rate was 154, up from 98 last week. Owyn's was always above 170. Maybe it's a sign


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## Everrgreen

I have such a hard time with consequences too. I can never think of anything in the moment that I could actually follow through with. Or I think of things that are totally unrelated to what he's doing. I've started to use bribery which I hate doing but it does work. The biggest issue I have is getting him ready to go somewhere or to leave somewhere. For example tonight I was trying to get him to leave my friends place and he was just running around screaming and laughing. He would not listen. I tried everything and finally in frustration said 'you need to put your coat on now or no num num tonight' I gave him multiple chances and he just lied down on the floor and laughed at me. So he is not having num num tonight. But he doesn't even seem to care. He asked a couple of times and I reminded him why he couldn't, so then he just asked for a snuggle instead. And I'm sure no lesson has been learned.

So exciting that all you pregnant mama's are hearing heartbeats! Yay!

Nilla - How frustrating that you don't know about your program yet! I guess you will find out soon though - good luck!!

Oh and I have decided that Royce will go to french immersion too once he starts kindergarten.

Starling - I don't think he's being coached, he's just using duty counsel. And he seems eager to sign everything and get it done. He has shown up every other time and been very agreeable. I don't really know why he doesn't come to see Royce. Well, he has lots of wonderful excuses that he tells me, but none are good enough in my opinion.

And I also much prefer smaller towns. Unfortunately I'm headed to Toronto for the next 2 years :S But after that I hope to find a job in a smaller city and finally settle somewhere.


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## mckittre

Yay for baby heartbeats!

Consequences: Haven't had to do much here. He hates being "held", so if he's doing something he's not supposed to (like climbing on his sister, opening the woodstove...) I just threaten to physically hold him so he can't do it anymore. Simply the threat is usually enough stop him. Likewise, if he's running away when I'm getting his boots on or something I just tell him I'm going to come pick him up if he doesn't. And he nearly always chooses to come himself vs me going to get him. I try, whenever possible, to give him only choices that I'm OK with him choosing, but it's sometimes hard to remember.

The only official preschool here is Head Start, which is as good or bad as whoever's teaching at the time, I guess (and I'm sure he couldn't start until Fall '12 anyway). But I think doing something informal and exploration-based with my mom friends will be more fun and probably more educational as well if we can make it work. Between all of us, we have expertise in art, science, gardening, nature, cooking, construction, fishing, music, dance, etc... so there will be lots to expose them to.


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## justKate

I don't know why hearing the heartbeat is so magical, but it is! So glad that all of the babies are cooking up properly.

Erin, we do a lot of "do you want mommy to hold you?" too. Mostly when she won't stay in bed at night, or when she's playing on the stairs, or refusing to hold my hand near the street. It usually works because she never wants to be held either--that would not be very grown up!

Still no sign of AF for me.







She's about 6 days late, but maybe I O'ed later. Hope nothing is wrong in there.


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: I'm not convinced you did ovulate. Just my thought. Though I am hoping you did and get a BFP soon! Is your temp still high? Have you tested again since the weekend?

Awesome you all got to hear heartbeats!

Well I think M might have the mildest case of pinkeye. She keeps having those symptoms after nap and this morning she had a little gunk. But it's so not bad. Unfortunately, I'm not nursing anymore so no more milk for her eye. I do have colostrum still though. But not very much.

M asked to have nanas yesterday. I let her. Her version consists of putting her mouth around my nipple, being careful not to actually touch anything...and staying like that for about 10-20 seconds. Then she is happy that she had nanas again. LOL.

Cindy


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## justKate

Aww Cindy that's cute. Hopefully she doesn't get too uncomfortable with it. I hate pink eye.

So if I didn't O--and I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't, 'cause I was sick this month--how long will this cycle last? I mean, it makes sense that an annovulatory cycle would be longer, but I wonder if there's an average? I should probably go ask in Fertility....


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## Everrgreen

Using the consequence of holding him or doing something for him would not work. He wants me to carry him, hold him, do it for him. It is so frustrating!! And lately everything is soo funny to him, which really drives me nuts. I'm angry and he just thinks it's hilarious.

Kate - my period was over a week late this month because of illness (I'm assuming it was the illness). I don't know if the cycle was anovulatory or not though, I just assumed I ovulated late. It is hard to tell with your chart. Do you take your temp at the same time each morning?

I really think I'm ready for Royce to wean. Although I know I will be sad when he actually does. But part of me is hoping that when I get back from the bahamas he won't want to nurse. I don't think it will be that easy though..


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## AKislandgirl

Kate: Since I only have annovulatory cycles with out clomid I can tell you that my cycles are super long. Like 60-80 days long. But I don't think that if someone just randomly has an annovulatory cycle that she'd go that long. Maybe more in the 40 plus day range? Just a guess though.

Fiona is sleeping much better but her darn cough is brutal at night. She coughs in her sleep so much. I sure hope she shakes it soon.


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## Mal85

So, it's official. I am definitely the mother of a toddler. We got to make our first call to poison control today. Owyn had wandered into the bathroom. I heard her go in while I was putting daycare baby down for a nap and figured she could hurt much in the couple of minutes it took to lay him down. I was wrong! When I got there, she was squeezing the last of a brand new tube of toothpaste into the toilet and had fresh minty breath. So, pretty sure she ate some, though I had no idea of knowing how much she ate. The tube was almost full this morning and it was almost empty by the time I got there. But there was a fair amount in the toilet, so it was hard to tell. So, I made the call and they said she would have had to eat about half the tube for it to do any major damage. Based on how much was in the toilet, there's no way she ate that much. They said she might be pukey today, but so far she's been fine. She had me pretty worried though!

Daycare girl was in there with her and I almost think I'd have felt even worse if anything had happened to her! Thankfully she didn't eat any of it, was just an innocent bystander.


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## justKate

My chart is out of control. I keep pushing the O date back thinking AF will show soon. Haven't tested since Tues, which was a BFN of course. My usual LP is 10-11 days and I'm usually spotting by 9DPO.



I do temp at the same time, same amount of sleep. Anything above 97.0 is usually post-O for me. It's frustrating not knowing what's going on. Maybe I'll take out the temps from when I was sick (CD15-20ish) and see what that gives me. I had two 40+ day cycles after my 1st PPAF, but they've been like 27 days since then.

Gillian, I know what you mean about weaning. We weaned earlier than I had planned--17 mos--because I just couldn't take it anymore. The climbing on me, the screaming about it. Maybe you could bring him back something from your trip (or get something to have ready when you get back) and just sort of make it the replacement for nursing. Like one of those Dapper Dan type dolls, maybe? The thing, IMO, with nursing, is that it's great for as long as it works for both of you. But when it stops working for one of you, something needs to change. If you're not ready to let it go, maybe you could give him X nursing sessions per day--like at regular times, and limit it to that for your sanity?

Sue, I'm sorry Fiona is still coughing. Do you do medicine at all? I hate giving Aubs meds, but when she's up all night coughing, miserable, making everyone else miserable, I sometimes do it anyway. It seems like the more she coughs, the more sore her throat gets and then she coughs even more.... I know all of the cough medicines say for over 4 years old now, but I just go by Dr. Sears' website's dosing guildelines.....


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## Everrgreen

Kate - it definitely looks like there is an o pattern now! I think ff has it right with March 14th.

Nursing is already pretty limited here. Only 3-4 times a day (before bed, morning, before nap, sometimes after nap). I guess my next step could be to cut out the nap time nursings. I'd also like to cut out the nap and have him go to bed earlier! But I think I'll wait for the nicer weather for that.

Mal - Oh scary! Royce has gotten into a lot of things but luckily nothing ever goes into his mouth (knock on wood!)


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## Mal85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gillian28*
> 
> Kate - it definitely looks like there is an o pattern now! I think ff has it right with March 14th.
> 
> *Nursing is already pretty limited here. Only 3-4 times a day (before bed, morning, before nap, sometimes after nap). I guess my next step could be to cut out the nap time nursings. I'd also like to cut out the nap and have him go to bed earlier! But I think I'll wait for the nicer weather for that.*
> 
> Mal - Oh scary! Royce has gotten into a lot of things but luckily nothing ever goes into his mouth (knock on wood!)


I'm really having an internal struggle with naptime here. She just does. not. want to. sleep. Today we fought for 2 hours, then I only let her sleep 45 minutes because I want her to sleep tonight. Days when she goes without a nap, she goes down for bed no problem, just a little earlier. But, sometimes she wakes after an hour or so, just inconsolable. I don't know if it's going to bed earlier that's throwing her off or if it's the fact that she's just too tired. She missed her nap one day last week and I managed to get a pretty hilarious video of her falling asleep while eating dinner.

My struggle is the fact that my house is so small and it'd be really difficult to have her awake while the daycare kids sleep. The daycare girl that's here everyday is a really light sleeper and once she gets woken up, she won't go back to sleep. So I'm afraid Owyn would keep her from getting the nap she needs. The only thing I can think to do to keep her quiet while they sleep is to let her watch tv during nap time. She'll happily watch her PBS shows or Annie throughout the whole nap time, but I don't know if I want her watching two hours of tv every afternoon just so the others can sleep. It's gotta be better than fighting with her for 2 hours and not getting a break myself though, right?


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## Everrgreen

I've decided I want to change my username to something that isn't my name. Any suggestions for me?? I hate trying to think of a username, I'm not very original (as you can tell from my current username  ) The only ideas I have come up with are MonkeyMom (because I call ds monkey), or maybe SonShine (because I have a son..) or FlyingSolo (because I'm a single parent..) maybe SoloMama I don't know. Help me!


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## justKate

Gillian do you know T (Super~Single~Mama) from Single Parenting? She did that just before we changed over to the new platform. I'm totally not creative either. Do you have a childhood nickname?

I like SonShine. Sonrise. Sonburst.

Something to signify the new life you're starting maybe?

For some reason I've got a new kids on the block song in my head now. Step by step! Ooh baby, gonna get to you girl...

What does Royce call you?

Two things you like together--LilBlueMonkey.


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## starling&diesel

*Gillian* ... I think you should be called *acemama* because you are an ace at it!

Or *superrrmama* (the r's representing Royce)

Or *mamatomonkey*

Or how about *bahamamama* in honour of your freeing upcoming trip!

*llamamama* (do you know those books?)

*inspectormama* (your new career ...) Oo! Oo! I like that one the best!

*phoenixrisen*

*mamaphoenix*

I love naming!

Back for more personals later!


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## Everrgreen

Yeah there are a couple other single mama's that have recently changed their name, one using 'super' and another one using 'phoenix' so I probably won't use those.. Hmmm, I like InspectorMama too. I think I want to find something really generic though that nobody could really relate to me. Because my first name and R's name are already on many many posts I want a username that won't give any more info about who I am irl. And I also don't really think I want something to do with me being a single parent. I think I'll stick with something referencing my little monkey, or a play on 'son'.. I actually also thought of using 'HereComesTheSun' bc I love that song  But I'm not sure if that's really a username. Oh or 'Evergreen' bc I love evergreen trees and I just think it's a really great word (I'm a geek )

Anyway, tomorrow I'm taking R to a Maple Syrup Festival! Should be fun  And Monday is my birthday so we are going to go an indoor exhibit at a botanical garden place here. It's on the sounds of nature.


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## AKislandgirl

Well there is a preschool here called Sonshine. They spell it son because its a religious place and a play on Jesus. I'll always think religious when I see Son spelled that way in a word that in would normally be sun. That is probably just me!

Well Fiona is currently saying no to her nap so I just got up. She will likely fall asleep on the couch at 5 and then everything is screwed! So I'm going to take her for a drive in a few minutes and get her to sleep that way... with a quick trip through the drive through of the local coffee house on the way for a decaf mocha with whipped cream!









She doesn't nap very long these days but still needs it. I usually let her watch some TV when she wakes up to extend quiet time since my daycare girl needs a longer nap. Not the best thing in the world but I don't know a better way to keep her quiet enough for someone else to sleep in this tiny house.

My sister just called and wants us to open a goat dairy with her and her DH. I love the idea but its too far out there and too risky for my DH. If we could find a job for him in the area for the security I think it would be great but that may be pretty tough. I'm really ready to move. We want a farm really badly and I want to live near my family and not have to spend $1000 per ticket to fly to see them. Fiona and I are planning a trip this summer but its going to suck to have to pay that much. Luckily I have a companion pass for her.... Still, it won't be happening with 2 kids.


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## Thursday Girl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl*
> 
> Well there is a preschool here called Sonshine. They spell it son because its a religious place and a play on Jesus. I'll always think religious when I see Son spelled that way in a word that in would normally be sun. That is probably just me!


I ALWAYS think religous when I see son worked into something, it usually always is too.

junes naps sometimes. yesterdsay no nap, th eday before 2 naps.


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## Thursday Girl

oh a goat farm would be fabulous. I am so aching to get to a farm. living in the city it's hard to do all the things we want. we have chickens and a garden and fruit trees but we are running out of space. My Josie really wants a cow to milk, i want goats and the garden is just too small, we can't plant anymore trees and I so want nut trees and a medicinal herb garden. Unfortunately moving is not an option at this point. Especially now that Hubs is back home working. It means things are about to get pretty damn tight financially. it's non existant right now they haven't given him his final paycheck and won't answer his calls. they owe him almost $2000.00. They are such a-holes. It's better him being home, I have finally come out of survivial mode, which was super stressful. Now we are in living mode.

Kate, I don't remember anything about charts anymore.

i love little baby heartbeats, that whoosy whoosh sound is so wonderful


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## Everrgreen

So I decided to change my username to evergreen, went to send the money via paypal, but it wouldn't work, so I came back to mdc and looked up the info again and I guess they aren't changing usernames at this time  I'm not sure how temporary that is. I'm disappointed. And I really want to stop using my real name here. Oh well..


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## AKislandgirl

Evergreen, you have to pay to change your user name? How annoying. I guess changing it actually puts all past posts under that name vs just opening a new account using Evergreen? Hope it gets worked out soon for you. Would you prefer us not to refer to you using your name on here anymore? And how about R? I understand your needing some privacy. Just let us know what you are comfortable with and we'll follow suit!

Last night Fiona slept great. No coughing in her sleep and slept in her own bed till after 6am! Woot Woot! Of course it took me over an hour to fall back asleep after I got up to pee! Why is that always the way?! She's still coughing a bit today but having a cough free night makes me think we are over the worst of it.

We had an awesome morning out in the spring sunshine. It was about 40 degrees and not windy or rainy/snowy so it felt so good to be out! We spent a long time at the playground this morning. She's wiped out now. As soon as she finishes her movie and snack we are heading to bed. The totally gross thing was that 3 (!) different parents at the playground were smoking. Not off to the side but while climbing on the equipment with their kids. I was totally pissed off but the whole thing. If you are so freaking addicted to your cigarettes that you can't go an hour at the playground without smoking at the very least you can do is step outside the play equipment. Thanks a-holes for exposing my kid to your disgusting smoke! Ok, vent over. I started this by saying how lovely our morning was... I'll focus on that now!


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## starling&diesel

Hey Gillian ... What about a new membership? You'd lose your 'status' and your post count, but it might be for the better?

Sue ... That's awesome that Fi had a better night. So did Esmé! Hallelujah for that!

I'm 12+ weeks now! Second trimester! Yay! I still barfed twice this week though. What is with that? Jeepers.


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## Everrgreen

Well it's probably a little pointless for me to worry about changing my name now. You can all still call me Gillian  I might just starting using R though. I don't know. I may consider opening a whole new account. I'm not sure.

I'm glad Fiona is feeling better. I'm sure a good nights sleep has helped all of you!

And the smoking would really bug me too! I hate having to be exposed to 2nd smoke. It is completely unfair. Especially at a playground!!! The main place I run into it is at the doors to the mall or restaurants. Very annoying!


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: Yay for 2nd trimester! Can you relax a little now? 

Evergreen: I would start a new account if you're that concerned. You'll lose your subscriptions but you can go back and resubscribe to the threads you're into. BTW do you want us to call you evergreen, not Gillian?

Ugh. I've been sick for the last 4 days. Worst sore throat ever! And yes, M must have had a mild case of pink eye bc I woke up with it this morning, on top of everything else. Delightful. Thankfully I haven't had any since waking up...same as her. Hers is all gone now though. So thankful DH let me sleep yesterday and today and he took M out for a fun outing today and let me relax. I do miss being able to lie on the couch and watch crap tv all day while I'm sick! I tried to watch some afternoon talk shows on Friday and Makenna made me turn it off...didn't like it.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Evergreen - that's unfortunate that changing names isn't easier. You'd think a lot of people might want to do that?

Starling - yay for second trimester!

*Naps and Sleeping*: It's been a long time since Katmai napped in the house. So we've been trying to take him for walking naps. But lately, it seems like he does better and goes down more easily with no nap at all. But I can't prevent it either - we were snowshoeing all day today, and he napped on his dad's back, and took forever to go to sleep!

On another front, he doesn't like to sleep with me anymore. He's been mostly in his own bed for awhile now, but liked to come nurse at 6AM or so, and fall back asleep for a bit. Now he comes in to nurse, then wants Daddy to go lay with him back in his own bed. I'm not sure whether to feel relieved or kind of sad about that.

Katmai's gotten into this phase lately where he's started to ask us to define words for him in all of his stories. "What is a scuba diver?" "What does hope mean?" "What is arctic?" A lot of them are really hard to explain to someone with so little context for the world. Now that he can talk so well, sometimes I feel like I expect him to understand more than he really can.


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## Everrgreen

I heard back from the mdc admin and they are going to change my username for me. Yay! Not sure when it will change. It is going to be either Evergreen<3 (if that symbol makes an actual heart in a username, I can't figure out how that is done but someone around mdc has it) or if that symbol does not make a heart my new name will be ~evergreen~

(just 'Evergreen' is taken).

So you guys can call me Evergreen and DS can be 'R'


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## starling&diesel

How about evergreenmama? Or everrgreen (an extra r for R?)

*mckittre* ... I think I've been expecting too much in term of communication with E too. She's so verbal, and has been for so long, that I just got used to 'conversing' ... but an example is that for the last three nights she's not wanted to put on her overnight diaper. Screaming, thrashing, begging to 'cuddle', getting hysterical. I kept asking her to tell me 'why?' but for whatever reason, she can't explain it. It's not hurting her, laying down to put it on isn't hurting her, she doesn't have any kind of rash or redness, we're using the same overnight dipes she's had since birth, she freaks out with either dp or me (and we're the only ones who put her to bed), and there is no getting any explanation out of her except after she's calmed she says she 'won't cry about it tomorrow and it's all better now.' But she's upset to the point of nearly vomiting.

Anyway, I need to remember that she's only two. And can't be expected to explain more complex emotions.

Hmm. While typing this out I wonder if it's because she's in underwear in the evening and doesn't want to go back into a diaper? Although she has all the words to say that and does say that at times during the day, maybe she's tired? Oh, I don't know. Anyway, I'm going to cut her some slack and just let her have her meltdown without needing to explain herself.


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## Vegan Princess

M is the same. She is SO verbal. But when she wakes up at night she just wails and won't tell us why no matter how we ask her. Either that or she just says "yes" to every question we ask.

I am calling the dr today. I am covinced M has enlarged adenoids. It's so scary listening to her breath at night. Now that she is in our bed a lot more, DH and I are having trouble sleeping bc we are so disturbed...we just lay there listening to make sure she is breathing. She tries and tries to get air through her nose until she finally gasps for air through her mouth. And she pauses breathing for 5 seconds fairly often. The docs keep telling me the pausing is normal for this age - that it is periodic breathing. But it is also a symptom of enlarged adenoids. And given how loud she snores and how much trouble she has breathing at night, I think it is all related. The thought of her having surgery makes my skin crawl...but the idea of her being able to get a restful night's sleep is appealing. She wakes up all the time and tosses and turns and I think it's from the breathing.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy*: Oh, poor Mckenna! I'd be concerned too, by your description of a normal night!

Oh, and I meant to answer your question about whether or not I could relax a bit more now that I'm in the second trimester. The answer is no. I still worry! Maybe it's because of being a paramedic and knowing that this is our last, last, last chance at having another baby? Just yesterday I had two pregnant patients, one who is seven months and was in a bad car accident, and another who is five months and had a placental abruption by the looks of things. Jeez. I need me some Rescue Remedy!


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## AKislandgirl

Oh McKenna! I'm glad you are listening to your instincts on that one to get her checked out. Poor baby. Hope she'll be ok soon.

I'm 12 weeks today and feeling a lot better. More energy and haven't felt sick in about a week. yeah!

Fiona gets really upset without telling us why too. She mostly gets mad at me and fights me for getting dressed, diaper changes, etc... I try to give her a few minute warning. But sometimes its like its the end of the world. She doesn't react this way with DH which just gets under my skin! If he's home he will tell her she has to listen to Mama and use nice words with Mama. He's good at calming her down thankfully but he's not always home. Plus I wish she'd be as cooperative with me as he is with him!! He rarely gets the meltdowns. Aaagh, such is the life of the Mama!!


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Oh no! Having concerns like that is so scary. Definitely better to get it checked out though, it sounds like she has something going on.

I can't believe you pregnant mama's are heading into the second trimester! So exciting!!

R's vocabulary is pretty good, but mostly he just repeats things I say, without actually answering the question. For example, if I give him a choice 'do you want toast or cereal' he will reply 'toast.. cereal' Uhhh that doesn't help me! I've also noticed that sometimes he will get stuck on a word and just repeat it over and over and over and over. Do anyone else's little ones do that? And people who don't spend a lot of time with him need me to clarify what he's saying about 50% of the time. But he's always improving, so I guess he's 'normal' 

Starling - thanks for the naming help! I believe my new name will be 'Everrgreen' (extra 'r' for my R), it should be changed soon I think


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## Vegan Princess

So we saw the pediatrician and she referred us to an ENT. Unfortunately, we couldn't get an appt for over 3 weeks. But they did say that if she needs surgery, the wait won't be as long as for an appt. The dr couldn't see her adenoids but based on my description and the fact that all of my siblings and I had the same issue as little ones, she thought it was likely. She said her tonsils are moderately large. But I don't think they are giving her problems so I would like to avoid having them out!

Evergreen: Even though M says sooo much, DH can't always understand her. I'd say it's normal to still have to translate. I still can't understand things occassionally.

Oh Starling - that would be so hard to see cases of pregnant ladies having problems! I guess I forgot how worried I was when prego. That worry did come back quickly when I was pregnant for a few days back around Thanksgiving. I'm sure I will be even more cautious and worried with #2, whenever that happens, given all it is taking to get there and knowing i have some issues that could up my chance for a miscarriage.

DH goes for a restest tomorrow. Hopefully they will get the results to us quickly this time. It's a different lab so I think they ought to.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Cindy, glad you got a referral, that's a good start. That has to be so hard to listen to every night, I totally understand your concerns. I hope you can get it taken care of quickly.

Starling, it would be so hard to have your job while pregnant. The horror stories would be hard to stay away from. I'm having all kinds of concerns too. Even though they said everything is fine with me being on that medication at the beginning, I still worry. Not to mention the fact that my sister had a baby with a genetic disorder they didn't know she had until she was born and was lucky that she made it out alive. If they'd known about her condition there's no way she would have had a vaginal birth, it's so dangerous. Now my SIL, who is 32 weeks, was diagnosed with gestational diabetes. She went in for a level 2 ultrasound and they found out there is low blood flow to the baby and they may have to take him early. She was pumped full of steroids last weekend to help his lungs develop in case they have to take him soon. They are monitoring her 2 times a week and hoping to get him to 36 weeks, then they will take him by c-section. So many scary stories, it's hard not to worry!

I'm feeling so down lately. I know it's just first trimester general crappiness. I'm so tired and I feel guilty because I don't have the energy to do as much with the kids as I usually do. The guilt just makes the exhaustion worse. DH was gone for the weekend and all Owyn wanted me to do all weekend was entertain her and I just can't keep up right now. I feel so bad not being able to do the things she wants. And with all the bloodwork I had to have done and the ultrasounds and doctors appointments and 2 deaths in the family, I've had to take off work way more than I usually do. So then I feel guilty putting my daycare families in a rough spot. They are supposed to have back up care, but it's hard to come by in our area so oftentimes, they have to take off work when I take off. Now I have a tooth that's bothering me and I can't take anything for it. I made a dentist appointment for the same day as my next prenatal. I figured I could just get them done in one day rather than inconveniencing people two different days, but it means I need to take off the whole day instead of half a day. I just kind of feel like I'm letting everyone down right now and there's nothing I can do about it. Ugh.... I'm 8 weeks.... 4 more weeks until the second trimester.

On the plus side, I put in my resume for another job. It's a part time preschool teaching position. Three days a week, working 8-3, summers off, and roughly the same income I have now. The job doesn't start until the fall, so I'm not sure they'd hire me just because I'm due just a couple of months after the school year starts. So, we'll see what happens...


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## AKislandgirl

*Hey Mal*; big hugs Mama! The first trimester is so hard. I know what you mean about taking leave too. I just tried to reschedule a dentist appt so I don't have to let my daycare girl off for the morning. They can take me in July! Ugh! You are in the heart of the exhaustion now. Soon you will be feeling much better and have some of your old energy back. I was feeling really guilty about Fiona not get much attention but I can do a lot more now. You'll get there!!

Good luck on the job hunt!!

*Cindy*: so glad you got a referral. That is a good start!

Well, Fiona speech is pretty clear but she is so shy she rarely talks to anybody but DH and I and the girl I take care of. She'll whisper hi or say bye-bye (that must seem safer!) but mostly she'd rather not talk to other adults. She does talk to my mom and sister on the phone though.


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## Everrgreen

R has times when he's shy but he also enjoys saying 'hi' to random strangers we pass on the street  The other day some older ladies were commenting on his lion hat (he has a toque that is a lion face) and they asked if he could roar like a lion, he just stared at them, but then as we were leaving he turned back and said 'ROAR!' it was hilarious! And on the flip side of that I was at a friends house and someone new showed up and he ran over to me and crawled into my lap and said 'I'm shy'.. That was also pretty funny 

Mal - *hugs* I'm sorry you are having a rough time  Hopefully your 2nd trimester energy will kick in soon  And good luck with the job! Would you want to leave it permanently after the baby comes? Or just take a mat leave?

Cindy - I'm keeping you and M in my thoughts, I hope you can get some answers quickly!!


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## mckittre

Cindy - I hope you get it all taken care of quickly - that must be hard to listen to.

I think pregnancy is always kind of scary - it's like this black box you don't know what's going on in there. So much better once you can see the baby and know it's OK! I always found that feeling kicks helped a lot though, when it got late enough for that.

Whispering hi or saying "I'm shy" sounds so cute. When a stranger says hi to Katmai and he doesn't want to talk, he yells "NO!" at them. A lot of the folks we see frequently he knows though, and he'll talk to them.


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## Mal85

Gillian, I'd keep the job. I'm not sure how maternity leave would work if I start working just a couple of months before I have the baby, but places around here are usually pretty good about negotiating. My ideal situation would be to start the school year, take off to have the baby and return at the start of the new semester after the holidays. Not sure if that would go over though, I'm really just making it up.









I need some good thoughts coming our way. My SIL is 32 weeks pregnant and was diagnosed with gestational diabetes a few weeks ago. So, she had to go see a perinatologist and have a level 2 ultrasound, where they found out there was low blood flow to the baby and he was already pretty tiny for his gestational age. So, she was admitted to the hospital last weekend to get pumped with steroids hoping to help his lungs develop. The goal was to get him to 36 weeks and they would take him then. They said whatever the condition is, the baby will do better outside the womb once he's past 36 weeks. Well, she went in for an ultrasound today and things weren't looking good. They're doing a c-section in the morning. As of last week, they were guessing his weight around 1.5 lbs. They're hoping he's grown some since then, but she's being sent to a hospital with a really good NICU and he'll be going straight there.


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## AKislandgirl

oh my gosh Mal! That's really scary! Sending lots of prayers to your SIL and her little one.


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## Thursday Girl

oh wow mal, your SIL is in my thoughts.

pink eye- if no breastmilk you can use contact solution.

Starling, ughh sorry about the job "hazards" pregnancy is full o!f worry enough without that. keeping rescue remedy in your pocket seems like a wise move. I worried through each progressive pregnancy more then the one before it.

Junes has begun to use the potty and insists on wearing undies. YAY. still has a few accidents, the only downside is she insists on undies in the car too. makes me nervous, wish i knew where my travel potty went.

Cindy- How'd it go?

words and strangers- Junes sometimes refuses to talk to people and hides into me, sometimes communicates fully with her facial expressions, and sometimes randomly says hi to everyone, especially cars.


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## Vegan Princess

Courtney: Do you have a piddle pad? They go in the carseat and absorb accidents. My sister swears by them. Yay for potty learning!! DH is going away for 3 nights in a few weeks...I may take that time to try and tell M that she isn't going to wear diapers. Or not. I'll see.

No results yet. But DH had to do his thing in a (private) public restroom that people kept knocking on the door of. So he doesn't think it went all that well. We shall see. The last lab was a super private, cush room with a tv and porn, etc. But we paid $200 out of pocket bc that was a fertility clinic. This time we found a quest lab - the same as where you get your blood drawn - but it should be covered by insurance.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy, too bad you don't live close to the lab like us. I carried DH's sample under my shirt to keep it warm and brought it to the lab! We did this for each of our IUI's too.

Yeah for Potty Learning! I need a lesson I think... Fiona and I aren't doing so well in that department. I need to let her be naked more but I hate it when she pees on the floor. Ugh!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: There is a closer lab but the person who does the test only takes samples between like 9:30 and 11 and DH has to leave for work by 7:30 or 8. And they don't do this test on weekends. I think if he needs to do it again, I'll try and go with him. Or if we do IUI, he will likely be in one of those special rooms at the fertility center and he won't have the same issue. Or, if he needs to even do another test just to check his count, after we see the new dr next week, he can probably have the tests done at their office from now on anyway. Your DH is lucky he got to do all of that at home!!


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## Thursday Girl

wow that's crazy, i can't imagine getting in the mood with people knocking on the door.

those piddle pads are neat.


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## Vegan Princess

So all the sudden lately, M does not want her diaper changed first thing in the morning. She sits up in bed and says "I don't want my diaper changed. I don't have to." Then she screams bloody murder when you try...or runs away. Sometimes doing it on the floor instead of the changing table makes it ok. There is no reason I can tell - every other time is fine and she has no rash, etc. But this morning she refused to put a diaper back on. Refused to put big girl panties on. I asked if she was going to use the potty if she ran around naked and she said no. I asked if she was going to pee on the floor and she said yes. Finally she claimed she would use the potty and she is still naked, an hour later. And I'm just expecting a nasty poop accident at any minute! This is when she always poops. Eeck!


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Sounds fun :/ R usually stays in his nighttime diaper until after breakfast (he always poops after breakfast). He does fight diaper changes too, mostly in a silly 'I'm going to make you catch me first' way. And he HATES being left naked. Which is very annoying bc his bum needs some air time to prevent rashes! But he just cries for a new diaper to be put on. And if I do manage to convince him to stay naked, it's only a matter of time before he pees on the floor. Potty learning should be fun 

Tomorrow I leave to go to my mom's place for a few nights before I leave for my trip!! Yay!! My bff who is getting married as well as my two other closest friends are all leaving tomorrow to go for a week. I figured 3 nights would be enough for R at this point. I need to get all my packing done this afternoon


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## Mal85

Gillian, have fun on your trip! Can't wait to hear all about it!

Owyn hates diaper changes too. It's mostly just playing for her, she thinks it's funny to run away from me. But sometimes she gets mad and yells "Stop it!!" the whole time I'm trying to change her. She loves naked time and has now figured out how to take off her diapers. When she figured out the velcro a while back, we started buying diapers with snaps. But now she can get the snaps off too or even just pulls them down like underwear. So, I often find her in her bedroom, having taken her diaper off and getting into her underwear drawer to put panties on. She loves wearing the panties, just doesn't seem to know what they're for.

Well, I have a new nephew. Evan Matthew was born this morning. He weighed 2 lbs. 6 oz. After a little help, he was breathing on his own. They were prepared for him to be on a ventilator for the first few days, but so far he hasn't needed it. He is getting oxygen and has an IV, he's also in the NICU in isolation. They haven't been able to hold him, but have been able to visit and see him.


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## justKate

Oh Mal, your poor sister. Is this her first baby? It's so hard to manage all the emotions--joy for the new baby, fear, pain, guilt and disappointment, grieving the rest of the pregnancy and the birth that could have been. I hope she's doing okay. I'm glad he's bigger than they thought, and breathing on his own, that's good. Poor mama, its so hard. I hope her DH is taking care of her--making her put her feet up and drink lots of water. Make sure she's not overdoing it--I pulled a couple of stitches doing too much when Aubs was in the NICU. Baby is really well taken care of right now, but she has to really take care of herself. I found one of those medela postpartum supports really helpful when I was going back and forth to the hospital--sort of provides support for the muscles that were cut. Not sure if she has one but it might be something to try. Keep us posted on how every body is doing. The NICU/Preemie subforum here's not super active but you/her are of course welcome if you have questions....

Pottying--we have improved here. Apparently peer pressure can be used for good rather than evil! Aubs noticed that 2 of the older 2 year olds are using the potty at school, so now she wants to too. She has good days and bad days, and I've had some success bribing her with stickers. Of course she is too grown up for the little potties, so I'm going to have to get a ring for the toilet. But whatever, a potty is potty. She has pooped on the carpet twice during naked time, mostly before I give a bath. She freaks out and comes to get me: "Mommy, 'mere! My poo poo potty!" It's really my fault. I should know not to take off the diaper if she hasn't pooped after dinner. And I really hate cleaning up pee and poop on the floor. It's part of the reason I don't have a pet. Mostly I just ask her if she wants to sit on the potty like every 20 minutes, and take her with me when I go.

So I know most of you all cloth diaper, but what do you/will you do about training pants? I want to start putting Aubs in trainers in the evenings, so I've looked at some, but OMG are they expensive. Carter's, Imse Vimse, Blueberry, Potty Patty. Geez. I'm considering just putting her in underwear and dealing with the accidents. I really want something that doesn't have snaps or velcro and is more like "real" underwear, but more absorbant and easy to wash. Any suggestions? Right now she has 2 pair of Carter's and they were like $12 for two. I think my underwear are cheaper than that.

G--for some reason I can't call you Evergreen yet. I'll work up to it. I hope you have a FABULOUS time in the Bahamas. Enjoy every single minute of it!

TTC and labs--Cindy, my DH would just refuse. We would be adopting, because there is no way he would do that under those conditions. I mean, he could surprise me, but I doubt it. It's great that your DH is on board. As for me, I went to the doc yesterday and they did a pee test. Duh, like I couldn't do that at home. The sample was "inconclusive"--I guess it was too watered down for a result? Total waste of my time, but of course it now looks like AF will show today or tomorrow. So lots of worry/excitement over nothing. I'm probably going to have to get on hormonal BC because I can't handle the emotional roller coaster until DH is really ready. Plus we're moving, etc.... I know logically it's not a good time to be pg, but I can't help but want it anyway. Oh well. Life and marraige are about compromise, right?

Communication--Aubs does the hi and bye thing, and also says thank you any time someone else does. So when I get something at a drive thru, she echos my thank you. Or at the grocery store. Or a restaurant. She's also started refusing to talk to Grandma and Grandpa when we skype. Almost like she's not comfortable with them anymore, even though it's only been a month since we've seen them. When we move in May we'll be within 3.5 hours of them, so that should change things.

Chickens! Courtney, do you still have chickens? My dad has decided to get some, and is building a giant chicken house and pen. He thinks he's going to free range them during the day and then they'll go into the pen at night. We'll see--there are hawks in that area. I'm looking forward to eggs, and I know Aubs is going to enjoy messing with them.

Starling, I think I'd struggle with pregnant patients too. And children. The emotional side of the job is big part of the reason I don't want to work for myself--I know I would end up doing family law, and not much good comes out of that area. Adoptions, I guess. But it would take a toll on me.

Wednesday work is done, time to go home! 32 more days at this job, and I'm starting to get nervous about the whole SAH thing. Any recommendations on how to survive it? I'm not sure I'm qualified for the job. Seriously.


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## Vegan Princess

Well, she managed to hang out for 2 hours and hold it all in. Finally it was time to go out so I got her to put a diaper on. She just sat watching her train video, holding on to her butt most of the time - I think she was trying to make sure nothing came out. LOL. I even tried to bribe her to go with a trip to get ice cream today (since it's GORGEOUS - finally after TONS of rain). It didn't work.

Evergreen: I am so jealous! Have a fantastic adventure - and some xtra fun for the rest of us mamas.

Chickens - DH and I talk about getting some. We live in a residential area but it is a bit more urban than most suburbs. Yet there are still lots of houses here with chickens. They make liittle coops. We just walked by a house yesterday where they have a hen house and then a little area around it all enclosed w/chicken wire. It's in their front yard. We have a tiny yard - it would have to be a fairly small coop. So I am torn about how I feel about that? Maybe they could walk around but I think there are animals here that would get them. I think I am going to go research this idea some more now.


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## AKislandgirl

Welcome to the world Evan Matthew! How wonderful to hear that he is bigger and stronger then they expected! So glad to hear that. Lots of prayers still coming his way. How is your SIL holding up?

Kate: sorry you peed in a cup for nothing! How annoying! Sorry about your DH not being ready for another baby yet too. That is hard. I hope he gets on board soon.

Chickens: We have chickens and Fiona LOVES them. We handled them a lot from the time they were chicks and they let us scoop them up anytime now. She loves to feed them and gather the eggs. They are so much fun! We free range them in the yard during the day. We have eagles but none have been taken. Some other friends have not been so lucky though. Here is a picture of them with our dog at the back door! I swear they want to come in the house!



Surviving life as a SAHM: I do think you are qualified! Here are my tips. Get out of the house everyday! Find at least one playgroup with adults you can chat with and hang out with while the kids play. Don't let a good weather day slip past you... play outside and tire her out as much as possible. Have fun!!!


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## starling&diesel

Love the picture, *Sue*! Oh, how we miss rural life!

*Mal*, So good to hear the Evan came into the world heftier than first anticipated. Prayers and healthy-lung vibes heading his wee little way. Keep us posted.

*Evergreen* ... Have a wonderful time! I'm jealous.

*Cindy* ... That all sounds promising, so long as M doesn't get a UTI from holding it all in. E is still super defiant about it. No interest. She loves her underwear, and happily pees in it.

As for chickens, I see your dilemma. I remember from your pics that your back yard is small. What about the front?

*justKate* ... You'll be an awesome SAHM. What works for me on the days that I'm home with E: getting out every single day, once in the morning, and once in the afternoon. Seek out and go to any and all local free time like story time, Mom and Tot drop ins, exhibits, etc. Remember that getting there is part of the fun. Don't give yourself too harsh of a schedule. Don't overschedule. Don't underschedule. Don't turn the TV unless it's a last resort. Have a list of inside activities at the ready, so that you don't have to think too hard when you're looking for something to do (bean bin, playdough, forts, dancing, dress-up, making cookies, bubble bath, 'washing' toys, etc). I'm excited for you! I'd love to be home full time. I wish I could quit the ambulance altogether. I'll be home for 60+ weeks with this babe, so that'll be wonderful.

*AFM*: I'm trying to figure out what to do for DP's 40th birthday, which is at the end of April. We're tossing up Hawaii, Tofino (west coast of Vancouver Island where we went in the fall), Mexico, and Memphis (there's a bbq competition, a huge interest of her's.) We don't have the money, but I don't want to let her birthday go by without celebrating it properly. Any ideas? Tips? Alternative ideas?


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Congratulations on your new nephew! I'm glad to hear he is bigger than they thought and doing ok. Sending lots of healthy vibes to the sweet babe. I hope your sister and the rest of the family is doing ok with all of this.

Starling - Go on a trip!!! It doesn't have to cost that much and it will be worth it! You only live once  Memphis sounds cool. Hawaii would be awesome too (would love to go there someday!)

Kate - I think I am just going to let him go naked and see how it goes. I might introduce underwear but I've read around here that some toddlers get confused when they are still wearing something at all 'diaper-like'. So R will be going commando 

And I agree with all the above tips. Especially to plan outings - even if it's just running an errand!

I've been awake and unable to sleep for over an hour now, I hate it! I should probably try and get some sleep though bc R will be up in an another hour or so :/


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## Vegan Princess

OMG mamas!! I think I'm pregnant!!!!! I have gotten a bunch of faint lines on the cheapie tests and just got a faint but there line on a First Response!!!! I'm only 9 dpo. I started getting the faint lines yesterday. It is SO early. I am not telling DH until the line gets DARK. But I am about to burst and had to tell!! Please PRAY that this bean STICKS!!!!! I am going to go for a beta and to check my progesterone levels. I am taking prescription progesterone but I don't know if it's enough. EEEEEE!!!!! This may be nothing short of a miracle! No clomid and DH's low count!

Back later for persies, when I can think straight!


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy!!!! I'm so excited for you. This is so fantastic! Keep us posted. Woo Hoo!









Everrgreen: Have an amazing trip! Hope you can catch up on some sleep on the plane!

Starling: Go on the trip! It's only going to get harder and more expensive to get away. 40 is a big birthday... do it up! I vote for Mexico or Hawaii but only because I'm longing for warmth and sunshine!

I think for Fiona to do well with potty training we are going to have to go comando as well. We have thick underwear (gerber) and she just pees in it. She tells me right as she's doing it but I think being naked will help more. I'm going to have to turn the heat up! it's not going to be warm here for a long time!

And one more Woo Hoo for Cindy!!!


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## Everrgreen

CINDY!!!! YAY YAY YAY!!! I'm so happy for you!! Congratulations!!! Share a pic with us!!


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## Mal85

Yay Cindy!!! Sending tons of sticky baby vibes your way! Do you think you'll join me in the November DDC or is December more likely?


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy woohoo, a line is a line, that's awesome!!

Starling, I say if you can still pay your bills go on the trip.

Evergreen, enjoy the trip and the wedding! n

Kate- The gerber pants are good. I know they are expensive, but helpful. We have used the padded undies with the plastic pants over them. Undies didn't work at all for my Jewel while I was trying to potty train her b/c like others have mentioned if anything was on her she would just pee. Now My jo would pee on the floor and play in it.

with potty training they have to want to and if they don't save yourself the aggravation and just keep them in diapers, trying to get them to potty will just set things back.

Junes potty training is going well. I put the undies in a drawer she can reach and she has started to put them on and use the potty. Almost all the time, Last night she stayed dry all night.

we had a tornado go through near by, heavy wind, crazy rain, our street was totally flooded and the chimney top thing blew off our house. everything is fine though. Still have a tornado warning until 6 but i think the worst bit is passed.

chickens- our chickens free range in the backyard, then we lock them up in the coop at night. When hawks fly by they hide under the coop. There are raccoons in the neighborhood that have eaten my neighbors chickens and I have caught them as well as oppossums in skulking around the coop. so far we have gotten lucky.


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## mckittre

Cindy - yay! hope the little one sticks!

Everrgreen - have a great trip!

Starling - We always just do potlucks for birthdays here, but trips are worthwhile in their own right, birthday or not. Pick the place your partner would love most, then just don't travel again for awhile if money is the issue.

Mal - I wish your nephew the best. That must be so scary! Sounds like he's doing well though, considering.

Kate - I'm not quite in the same position, because both of us work at home (and hence make far less time for outings), but we do try to get out for a hike or outdoor playtime daily.

Pottying: It does seem easier w/o underwear. Katmai's pretty good with pee with a naked bottom, but when we've tried underwear, it's a mess. And he never ever tells us if he has to go. But he'll take himself. Do I have to wait until he's fully capable of dealing with all his own clothing and finding a potty in any location before he's done with diapers? That'll be forever!

We have a big garden here, but I've been very hesitant to think about chickens. I don't want to deal with everything (bears, dogs, coyotes, eagles) that likes to eat them!


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## Mal85

I think potty training is just such a mystery to me. Owyn seems interested. She's started telling me every time she goes in her diaper and wants it changed right away. She always says she pooped even when she just peed. We do naked time. She has a drawer of underwear and she loves to put them on. But she just. does. not. get it. She won't pee or poop on the potty. Even if I know she needs to go, like when she first wakes up and hasn't peed yet. She loves sitting on the potty though, whether it's the potty chair or the toilet. She asks me if I'm peeing if I sit on the toilet, she says "Mama pee?" She goes into the bathroom with me all the time and is always interested in what I'm doing on the toilet, loves to flush it for me, etc. I do notice that she'll hold it if she's naked, but will pee in her underwear. But even when she holds it, she won't go on the potty, she'll wait until I put a diaper back on her, then demand to be changed right away.


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## Thursday Girl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mal85*
> 
> I think potty training is just such a mystery to me. Owyn seems interested. She's started telling me every time she goes in her diaper and wants it changed right away. She always says she pooped even when she just peed. We do naked time. She has a drawer of underwear and she loves to put them on. But she just. does. not. get it. She won't pee or poop on the potty. Even if I know she needs to go, like when she first wakes up and hasn't peed yet. She loves sitting on the potty though, whether it's the potty chair or the toilet. She asks me if I'm peeing if I sit on the toilet, she says "Mama pee?" She goes into the bathroom with me all the time and is always interested in what I'm doing on the toilet, loves to flush it for me, etc. I do notice that she'll hold it if she's naked, but will pee in her underwear. But even when she holds it, she won't go on the potty, she'll wait until I put a diaper back on her, then demand to be changed right away.


that is a super great start, keep doing those things and she will get there! June once made me put a diaper on her so she could poop, I offered the potty and she wouldn't do it. but it happens.

Erin- I don't know about the clothes thing, If it is very cold we just don't really do potty training stuff, but it;s warm most of the year here, When Josie was potty training I always had to go with her to the potty, up until she was over 4 and she potty trained right after 2 years. They are all so different though, so who knows, I could be totally wrong. That's something 3 kids teaches you.


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... Dancing veggies for you! (A Queer Conceptions board tradition) I'm so excited for you!


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## justKate

CINDY, YAY!!! A line IS a line, especially on a FRER. Did you take pics?

Funny I saw the dancing veggies, and I knew there was news, so I scrolled up really fast and couldn't find your post! Since it's April Fool's Day I think you should tell him, he'll think you're joking. Or tell him you got a call from the doc with bad news, and it's going to be really expensive.....

I'm all










































for you!!!

Oh wait, is this April Fools' on us? I hope not.... that would NOT be funny.









ETA: Oh I just saw that post is from yesterday, so I'm







again!! Pics, pics!


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## Vegan Princess

Thanks guys!! I may post a pic later. My camera cannot pick up lines no matter what. So I took a pic w/my phone - which is not an iphone. You can see the line on the IC but not on the FRER. The frer darkened as it dried (they always do) so I decided to just go ahead and tell DH bc I couldn't keep it a secret. He was mad that I took a test and told him so early again. He is of course very happy - but his initial reaction wasn't joy, it was fear. Unfortunately, I think we are just going to have some fear for a while whenever I am pregnant. Hopefully we will relax a bit once I miss my period and I can get my blood work done. I told him by putting out the bottle of martinelli's someone gave us way back that we have been saving until I got prego again...I set it on the dining room table w/2 champagne glasses decorated with colorful ribbons...and I put the test inside one of the glasses. Cute but not over the top.

My doc renewed my progesterone and left a lab form for me to pick up today to get a beta and get my progesterone levels checked. I think I may wait until Monday to do the labs though bc that will be 13 dpo. I'm sure the levels are all pretty low right now since I am still only 10 dpo. Also, we are supposed to see a fertility specialist for the first time on Monday. I called and asked if I should keep my appt and they said sure, if I want to...which I do. And they said they could do an ultrasound if I want. Though I'm not sure you can even see anything at 4 weeks? Does anyone know?

Makenna took a gigantic poop in her big girl panties yesterday. Thank goodness we were in the yard!


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## Mal85

Cindy I'm so happy for you guys! I had a cute plan to tell DH when we found out we were pregnant. Everytime one of our friends has had a baby, I make the same meal for them. It's a russian chicken and wedding rice meal. My SIL gave me the recipe and said their family has always made it as a celebratory meal (plus the fact that it's so delicious). I was going to tell him by making that dinner for him. But then I was a little freaked out because of the medicine I was on when we found out, so I just went ahead and told him so I didn't have to worry by myself. He still says I owe him that dinner, but unfortunately pretty much all dinners make me nauseous right now so it'll have to wait until I'm feeling better!

I'm pretty bummed. I was supposed to go on a weekend-long shopping trip with my sisters. My oldest sister was offered a timeshare for free from her boss, so we were going to make it a girls weekend. But my niece has been sick since Wednesday and is still running a fever... of course she belongs to the sister that has the timeshare so we can't go now. DH had a weekend away last weekend and he had planned it because I was planning a weekend away, just to make it fair. But now I don't get to go. I'm still going shopping though, but closer to home. So, I'll still get part of the weekend to myself.

Anyone ever sold anything on craigslist before? We listed our car last night and I've already received 3 emails about it! I'm a little nervous about such a big purchase. DH just wanted to do a trade in since we're going to be buying a bigger vehicle in anticipation of the new addition, but we'll get more money for it if we sell it ourselves. I'm just nervous about getting ripped off. And how do we deal with the title? We don't owe anything on the car, so we have the title, not the bank. Do we just sign it over to whoever buys it? I'm so clueless... I'm excited though, we'll be getting our new car soon!! I'm hoping for a minivan and DH is willing to look at them. He'd like to buy an SUV since we have a pop-up camper that we need to be able to pull. It really all depends on what's in our price range, though. I'm excited to start shopping!


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## AKislandgirl

*Cindy:* I get your DH's reaction. My DH didn't believe the tests until I had taken 4 of them! It wasn't really the reaction I was hoping for either but he came around. Once he was sure he began to get excited. I like the way you told him! 

*Mal:* never sold a car so I can't help. I think its fun to shop for a new car though!! Don't you think a decent minivan can pull a popup? The best of both worlds. And bummer about getting away for the weekend. I'm glad you will still be doing something for yourself though. Maybe go out to lunch with a friend too and to a matinee? I have no idea what movies are out now but I think that would be fun! Shopping one day and lunch and a movie the next... Your own version of a weekend away but you get to sleep in your own bed. Oh yeah and either go out do dinner or make DH cook for you!

How is your nephew doing?

*Kate:* Did AF officially show? Or are you still in limbo?

*AFU:* Our night times still suck most nights. We have had a handful of nights where she sleeps soundly but most nights she still wakes up pissed off that she can't nurse. She doesn't try to get out of bed or anything but she cries and thrashes about. Once or twice a night we go through it. I don't want to give in and nurse her because I'm liking having my body to myself but this sucks. Maybe when she's 5 she'll sleep better!







DH is wondering if its just her personality or if we need to do something differently with this next little one. I said I don't know but this little one will nurse through the night too. At some point it will be hard... either earlier or later. Fiona just happens to be stubborn and a light sleeper I think. During the day we can say how hard it is to change what she's known for 2 years.... during the night its just frustrating. Ah well, we'll get there. It is making me wonder about possibly putting a double bed in the other room for baby and me. We don't really have the room but I could put a second dresser in the dining room or something ridiculous! OK, enough rambling...


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## Mal85

The baby is doing great. They lowered the level of O2 he's on because he's doing so well breathing on his own. He's being fed through a tube right now, but they brought in a pump for SIL, hoping to try feeding him soon. She has gotten to do skin to skin with him a handful of times. They met with his doctors yesterday afternoon and they pretty much just told them it's day by day right now. He's strong and doing much better than expected, he just needs to have time to grow.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: So glad the little guy is doing well! Those steroids make a HUGE difference! One niece was 6 weeks early and didn't have them and was very sick. Another had them and came 6 weeks early and went home the next day! As for craigslist - we sell tons of stuff on there. And buy some things. We've sold 2 cars on there. We just sold DH's car a few weeks ago. As long as they give you a cashier's check, I don't think you have anything to worry about. I am in a dif state so it is probably different. But here, you can print out the document you use for the sale on the state dmv website. It is only 1 page. You also need to do a release of liability (also on the dmv site) and get that in asap so that if they crash the car and kill someone the dmv knows it wasn't you. And the back of the title will have instructions about signing it over - it's all really easy. The hard part is dealing with all the flakey people off craigslist! So many decide not to come or come drive it and decide they don't want it. You will def. get more money though! So it's worth it.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Mal - I'm glad to hear your nephew is getting better bit by bit. I will continue to keep the babe in my thoughts, and your SIL too, I hope she is doing ok with all of this.

Oh, and enjoy your weekend!!

AK - Royce has been nightweaned for probably 6 months now (I think.. I can't remember exactly..) And he still wakes through the night. Occasionally he will ask for num num but for the most part he just asks to snuggle now. So I still get woken up a few times but it's a lot easier to just let him snuggle in and go back to sleep then to pull the boob out and go through all that. I've even got him to go down for naps/bedtime with just snuggles so I think complete weaning won't be too far away. It has taken a lot of being tough on him and he has cried a lot. He will usually throw a little tantrum at first but then all of a sudden stop and ask to snuggle, it get's easier all the time.


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## justKate

Mal, good to hear the newphew is doing well. Are they doing breastmilk through the NG tube? Don't let your sis get discouraged about BFing. I know it's not the same with a preemie, but my milk didn't come in for 6 days and Aubs never latched at all until she was 3 weeks old, and we didn't have problems after that. So he's got at least 11 weeks to figure it out. I hope the time flies by for her so this all seems like a scary memory.

Cindy,







so excited for you. Your chemical, didn't you get a + at like 7DPO? I really hope this one is here to stay. Will you keep testing every day?

Starling, my vote is Memphis because it sounds like the least expensive way to go, and the most personal for your DP. Of course I strongly believe that memphis bbq ain't got nothin on Texas BBQ, but that's just me!









Sue, AF finally showed yesterday. And she is angry angry angry with me for some reason. Probably because I questioned her reliability or something. I'm disappointed and relieved at the same time. Probably for the best.

More later, I've been slacking at work today. Went out to brunch with Huz and got back later than I should have. At least the weekend is coming!


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## starling&diesel

*Mal* ... SO GLAD to hear that your little nephew is doing so well. That is great news. As for CL, we buy and sell stuff on there all the times, but never anything more than about $200 ... good luck! Here's to a quick sale! And so exciting about your camper. We want a tent trailer so bad!

*justKate* ... Looks like we're going to have to stick around home. DP can't get the time off work to go further abroad. Just as well, she says, so that she can accumulate more time off for when the baby comes. That was quite the rollercoaster you took this last month. Must be some strong feelings to now be wresting with AP.

*Sue* ... Our night times are intermittently hard still, and E has been nightweaned for almost ten months! We too wonder if we should do something different with the next babe, but I imagine we'll do the same thing. Instinct trumps strategy, or that's my guess anyway.

*Gillian* ... Did you get a new bathing suit for your fabulous surf and sun get-a-way? Bikini wax? I'll just live vicariously through your holiday.


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: Sorry about AF!! As for my chemical, I got a faint line at 10 or 11 dpo but it never get darker. I think my line yesterday at 9 dpo was darker already. And since I have SO many cheap tests, I have continued to test for the hell of it...and the line is getting darker so far.

Starling: Sorry you guys had the shelve the trip idea. A trip to hawaii sounds unimaginably delightful! But it is probably best to save the vacation days. Hey when did you stop taking prometrium? I'm curious how long I'll have to take it.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Cindy ... I took 300 mg each day until week 10. I'm so excited for you!


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mal85*
> 
> I think potty training is just such a mystery to me. Owyn seems interested. She's started telling me every time she goes in her diaper and wants it changed right away. She always says she pooped even when she just peed. We do naked time. She has a drawer of underwear and she loves to put them on. But she just. does. not. get it. She won't pee or poop on the potty. Even if I know she needs to go, like when she first wakes up and hasn't peed yet. She loves sitting on the potty though, whether it's the potty chair or the toilet. She asks me if I'm peeing if I sit on the toilet, she says "Mama pee?" She goes into the bathroom with me all the time and is always interested in what I'm doing on the toilet, loves to flush it for me, etc. I do notice that she'll hold it if she's naked, but will pee in her underwear. But even when she holds it, she won't go on the potty, she'll wait until I put a diaper back on her, then demand to be changed right away.


meant to tell you that this describes Fiona exactly! She's peed in her potty only a few times but loves to sit on it! She always says "I'm Poopy" even when she's just wet. Funny! I don't want to buy any bigger diapers but I think I'm going to have to. Ah well!


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## Everrgreen

Starling - I did get a new swimsuit! And some clothes  I also had my bikini area 'sugared' which is just as painful as waxing but supposed to be easier on the skin. I've had waxing done only once before and I reacted badly to it. So far the sugaring has worked without a reaction. Only two more sleeps until I leave!!! Tomorrow I'm going for a mani/pedi!! I'm so excited 

Kate - I'm sorry af showed up  At least now when you do get pregnant you and your dh can be equally on board. Did you ever tell your dh about what he did?


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## Vegan Princess

We bought a big girl bed today! We got a twin mattress and box spring. I think it comes with a cheap frame but we'll just put it on the floor for now. Gets delivered Tuesday. Should be interesting. Hopefully it makes bedtime easier!

Well ladies, I am still getting positive pregnancy tests and the lines are getting darker! Today is 12 dpo. Tomorrow I'm going in for a beta and to get my progesterone levels checked. Then we also have our infertility specialist appointment. They said I could still come. So I'll go, just in case we need them in the future, so we won't have to wait to be seen again. And maybe they will have suggestions for my care right now.

Everrgreen: Yay for the name change! I think you are off on vacation now. Hope you have a wonderful adventure!!!

Starling: Thanks. I'm taking 400 mg. I hope it does the trick.

Cindy


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## Mal85

I hope you get some good advice at your appointment today, Cindy! We're getting a big girl bed soon too. My brother has a toddler bed that they won't be using anymore after this week, so they offered it to us to use. My IL's have already offered us the spare twin bed and box springs they have. So, we're going to make the transition with the toddler bed, then move her into the twin bed. I really think Owyn will like the toddler bed, since she has always hated her crib. I'm also hoping it'll help with bedtime around here!

I got to meet my new nephew yesterday! I knew he was little, but man, to see him irl was unreal. He is SO tiny! Even the diapers they have there for him are soooo tiny, tinier than diapers you'd use on a baby doll. I even got to hold him, which was extra special. They're hoping in the next two weeks, they will be able to introduce nursing. Really, all he needs to do is learn how to eat and gain some weight before he can go home. They're hoping for the end of April for that, which would put him at about 36-37 weeks gestational age. My SIL was released yesterday, which she says was bittersweet. Nice to go home, but really sad to be leaving her baby there.


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## AKislandgirl

*Cindy!* I'm so happy to hear those lines are getting darker! Woo Hoo!

*Mal:* How awesome to get to hold your new nephew!

I know we've talked about naps a lot around here. Friday and Saturday F skipped her nap and had minimal fussiness in the afternoon and evening. Man she went to sleep so easily and fell asleep so fast! Then yesterday she crashed hard for a 3 hour nap. It took FOR-EV-ER to get her to sleep last night. LOL! I know she's not ready to skip naps everyday but I have to admit I'm not as freaked out about her doing so now!

F is still coughing 2 plus weeks later. She's not acting sick and doesn't have a fever she just has a persistent cough and runny nose. After not coughing in the night for over a week she started to cough in her sleep again last night. Ugh... Don't know if we should just ride this out or take her in. I might call my friend (our Dr) and just ask her to listen to her chest here at the house rather then make an appt. My gut says she's fine but I've never had her hold onto a cold this long before.


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## justKate

OMG I just typed the longest post and then hit the back button on my browser. Everything is gone.

The problem is i was dreaming of these: BlueberryTrainers

I quit for today.


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy-yay for the line getting darker, sending sticky vibes your way.

Mal- how neat t hold your nephew!

I wish Junes would move into her big girl bed, she has the bottom bunk in the girls room. Her 5 year old sister is in the bunk above and her 8 year old sister is in the top of the loft bed near by. I thought maybe all the sisters would make moving to that room easier.

naps- June is napping NOW at 6:30, she did this yesterday too then wanted to stay up late as hell. If she wasn't absolutely miserable before she fell asleep I would wake her cute little butt up.

she seems to be having problems with her butt and poop. the poop is sort of soft and pale, and she cries that her butt and belly hurt. She hasn't been eating anything different than usual. She does have a bit of a runny nose. At first I thought maybe she was constipated, i thought she hadn't pooped in almost a week, but DH says he saw her sit on the potty and poop, and then she has pooped her pants 3 times in the past 2 days and pooped in the toilet once. I really have no idea what's wrong but it is so sad to see her crying. I want to try to get her into see the doctor and maybe have an allergy test or something. I just want to be able to fix this.


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## justKate

Courtney, that is weird with Junes' poop. I wonder if she has a stomach bug or something that's making her feel crampy? Poor baby. Could you get one of the older girls to sleep with her on the bottom bunk? Maybe when summer comes, it could be like a camp-out or something, and everyone could sleep together so that Junes could get used to it. A 6:30 nap would kill our night and the next day. I would make lots of noise and wake her up. Aubs is weird with naps--at daycare, she naps for like 2 hours, from 1-3. On the weekend, she takes a 45 min. nap in the morning around 10 and an hour or so nap in the afternoon, around 3. We're always up at like 7 a.m. because it's her routine. I dunno. I'd like to get into one nap around noon for an hour routine, but it will have to wait until I'm home with her or our situation changes.

Sue, the cough for that long would bother me too. Could it possibly be allergies? Are things blooming there already? Could it be dry air?

Cindy, hooray for darker lines!! I'm so excited for you. It will be interesting to see what the doc says, just in case. This will be an early December baby, right? Hooray for big girl beds too. Aubs has a toddler bed next to ours. She falls asleep in our bed and I put her into hers, then she comes back in ours some time in the morning. It's a slow transition, but she seems okay with it. I'm anxious to get her out of our bed now, because she doesn't like to cuddle anymore. If you don't want anyone to touch you, why do you insist on being right between us? Oh, and she doesn't want the blanket to touch her either. Huz and I both like blanket up to our ears, so she is definitely creating a rift in the middle of the bed. She is a strange little creature.









Mal, that's so neat that you got to hold your nephew. Is he out of isolation now? Despite the fiasco that was Aubs' birth, and the scary sh!t they told us in the NICU for no reason, the absolute worst part was going back to the hotel and leaving Aubs in the NICU every day for the first week. When we were separated in the hosptial it wasn't so bad, because I knew Huz was with her. It just feels so WRONG, even though you know rationally that's where baby needs to be. My poor Huz, up for days taking care of me at this point and i'm crying my fool head off saying "i just want my baby" over and over. Ugh. I really feel for your sis. I hope she's doing okay, and taking good care of herself too.

Posting now so that I don't delete it all again...


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## justKate

G--I hope you're having a fabulous time right now. I can't wait to hear about it. I've NEVER spent a night away from Aubs, but I'm really excited about the possibility of her staying overnight with my parents once we're closer to them. So I told Huz about how the oops last month was his fault, and he just denied it. Like completely denied that it was possible for him to be mistaken about it. He's such a dork. Sometimes I want to hit him in the head with a skillet.

Starling, how about a "staycation"? I know it's not impressive, but you could order fabulous BBQ, get one of those red checked picnic tablecloths, and do it all at home. This place has the best beef brisket ever; it's like meat candy. (Sorry Cindy.) I know they deliver to Hawaii--doesn't seem like Canada should be all that different! I know it's not the same as a big trip though.


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## AKislandgirl

*Kate:* just reading your recount of leaving Aubs in the hospital made me get all teared up!

*Courtney:* Is Juniper feeling any better today? Poor baby.

I've come to the conclusion that potty training is NOT right around the corner and we will in fact need some bigger diapers. I mean I love buying diapers but I was hoping to be done with Fiona. Just my luck once I make the purchase potty training will click for her! Ha! I'm taking Courtney's advice though (as a Mama of 3 I trust your advice!) and not pushing it because I think it will just lead to more accidents and more headaches. So bigger diapers it is....


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## mckittre

Cindy - glad its looking good - thinking sticky thoughts for you

Mal- glad that your nephew is doing well

Katmai's done fairly well with the potty for the last few days, but we're about to head out of town for a week and a half, so he'll probably lose it all again. (the naked around the house technique is definitely not appropriate in other people's houses)

We did our first kid coop morning today. My husband, I, and one other mom took 9 kids tidepooling for 3 hours, ages 3 months to 5 years. (Lituya didn't do a whole lot of tidepooling, though). They had a blast climbing on the rocks, looking for anemones, chitons, eating seaweed, etc... It's amazing how much easier the older ones are to keep track of. It took one adult to keep track of 4 3-5 year olds, but it seemed like one adult could often only keep track of 2 of the 1-2 year olds at a time. They were a bit like herding cats, going different directions, sometimes heading into the ocean, falling into tidepools, needing help on slippery rocks... Everyone was wet in the end, but we all had fun.


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## Vegan Princess

Erin: Tidepooling sounds awesome! How will your coop work? How often do you have to watch kids and how often does it take place? Yay for getting it going!

M's big girl bed just arrived, right in time for bed time. DH is up there with her now so we shall see how it goes! She was SO excited to lay in it though. The kitties were pretty pleased too. I guess they can sleep with her now, if they want. They always nap with her in my bed.

Sue: You can always sell the bigger diapers. Or save them for baby #2. Potty training is so not around the corner here either. We have 1 size diapers though and I think they will see us through to the end.

Courtney: I hope Junes is feeling better!

Kate: LOL about the meat candy! No offense taken. And I think the baby would be due between 12/13 and 12/18. Based on O, I say 12/13. My dr said 12/18 on the phone. But i think she was wrong...I think even going by first day of last period, it should be 12/15.

Cindy


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## Vegan Princess

Ack! DH left the room while she was still awake - and she has already gotten out of bed and come down stairs! This is going to be interesting! LOL!


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## AKislandgirl

ha Ha! Hope you eventually got her to bed Cindy! 

Erin: I love tidepooling! It sounds like a great day. I used to take kids tidepooling for work... middle school kids are a lot like the little ones because they try to show off for each other and end up wet all the time! Ha Ha! I always figured they deserved it though to have wet boots for the rest of the morning!

I just got some newborn longies and a t-shirt in the mail. I traded a Mama on diaper swappers for t-shirts from my etsy shop. They are so cute and tiny!


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## Everrgreen

Hello! I'm back! The trip was awesome. A very nice break with lots of good friends, sunshine, great food, the works! I'm so happy I was able to go, it was sooo worth it!

Unfortunately my getaway did not go well for Royce. He came down with a really bad stomach bug and was very sick on Tuesday. My mom did not call to tell me because she didn't want to ruin my time and knew I couldn't do anything anyway. She said he kept crying for me and saying 'miss mommy' :'( I feel awful that he got sick while I was gone. My poor baby. AND, I think I may have lost my milk.. My boobs did not get at all bigger not nursing for 4 days. I thought for sure they would get a bit fuller. But Royce did nurse when I got home and a couple times since. Just a few minutes ago I tried to nurse him and he popped off right away and looked at me funny, so I asked 'is the milk all gone?' and he just repeated 'milk all gone'. He could just be repeating what I said though. We'll see what happens at bedtime.


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## Mal85

Welcome back, Everrgreen! I'm glad you had a great time, you do deserved it! Poor Royce though, that had to be rough. I think it's good that your mom didn't worry you while you were away. It would have just made you feel guilty while you were supposed to be having fun. At least you know he was well taken care of.

Owyn and I are watching the Babies documentary right now. It's one of her favorites and giving me a break from Annie for today. Have you guys seen it? The older brother from Mongolia just cracks me up. I fear Owyn will be the same kind of big sister, I could just see her pulling the same kinds of stunts as this little boy. This little one inside me has no idea what's coming!

We got an offer on our car yesterday! The guy is supposed to come see it tomorrow evening. He lives 3 hours away, so if he likes it, he wants to buy it on the spot! We started some car shopping over the weekend, but really didn't think the car would sell this quickly. I guess we'd better get serious about it!


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## AKislandgirl

Yeah Everrgreen! Glad you had a great trip. So sorry about R being sick! Poor guy.

Car shopping sounds fun Mal!

Well we are a bit stressed in our house since DH is a federal employee. We find out by end of day tomorrow if he has a job and a paycheck to go to on Monday. Fing gov't pull it together! I know this could be worse because the gov't shutdown will only be temporary but weeks without a paycheck will be rough. I'll enjoy having him home though! They may or may not back pay for the time of the shut down too. AAAGH! The Dad of the girl I babysit is also a federal employee. So if he's out of work I won't have her either. He is a firefighter though and they may consider him to be an essential employee... I don't know. Maybe they will pull it together in the end but its not really looking so good at this point.

My milk supply is lower these days for sure. Sometimes after several minutes of nursing Fiona will say, "Milk all gone, nu-nu empty." I still have milk, just not much.


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## starling&diesel

*Sue*, that is stressful! I hope it all works out in the end. My supply is totally gone on the right (it wasn't good to begin with) and I don't have much in the left. E nurses on it and says, "It's okay, Mama, there's still a little bit in there," and she puts her thumb and finger a little bit apart to show me. "About this much, maybe." Then she closes the gap a bit. "Or maybe this much. Still tastes good."

*Mal* ... E loves Annie too! And Mary Poppins. I haven't seen Babies yet, but would love to. Did you buy it or download it? Good luck with the car sale!

*Ever* ... So great that you had a good time, but that absolutely sucks that R got so sick while you were gone. Are you glad that your mom didn't call to tell you? Do you feel super refreshed and ready to tackle the world? I sure don't!









*AFM*: E only had a twenty minute nap yesterday, and when she went to bed at 930pm, she rolled over and was asleep before she could ask to nurse. That's the first night since she was born that she hasn't nursed to sleep! I didn't know what to do with myself. It's been taking her almost an hour to go to sleep. I laid there for a minute and then realized I could get up and go hang out with DP. Just in time to add another baby to the bedtime-routine!


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## Mal85

Sue, I'll keep my fingers crossed for your husband's job, that has to be so stressful! I don't know what we would do if we went weeks without DH's income. His income pays all of our bills!

Starling, we've tried Mary Poppins here too, but I don't own it and it was a grainy internet download that didn't look very good. She didn't love it, but it might be because it was such a crappy picture. I've got Chitty Chitty Bang Bang on our Netflix list for her too. She seems to really like musicals, which is fine by me because I've always loved musicals too. Babies is on Netflix instant play. If you guys have Netflix, you can watch it anytime.

Because of our movie watching, Owyn didn't take a nap today. I really don't mind anymore when she skips her nap though because it makes bedtime so much easier! She has totally lost her patience for the other daycare kids though, so I guess that's the downside... DH will appreciate tonight. He has bedtime duty while I go to my book club meeting.


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## Vegan Princess

Everrgreen: Welcome back! I saw some pics on facebook - looked amazing! Poor Royce! Is he doing better now? That must have been heard to hear but I know your mom handled it well. You are wanting to wean anyway, right?

Sue: Oh man! How stressful!! I hope our stupid govt gets it under control. Hard to believe what is going on. I never really read the news or anything so today was the first I'd heard of it and it felt sort of twilight zonish.

Mal: Yay! I told you craigslist would work out.

Starling: Yay for time w/your partner! Hope it's a new trend!

AFM: Well, I got the results of both my betas back and they more than doubled in 2 days! And my progesterone number came back excellent! So yay!!! Hopefully I have a healthy, sticky baby inside! I am going to stick w/my OB practice through the 1st trimester but then I'm hoping to switch to a homebirth midwife. I guess I might start researching them soon. I live in such a crunchy area there are a million of them here.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

*Cindy:* so glad to hear that! Woo Hoo!

*Starling:* Isn't it funny how surprised we get to have time to ourselves! I'm glad you and DP got to hang out sans kiddo for a bit.

*Mal:* What book are you reading for your book club. I'm on the hunt for a good one...

We'll find out tonight about the federal shut down. As of the AM no resolution. We figure its going to happen. Just hoping its quick lived. We'll be fine for a few days to a week but if it goes on for weeks its going to be tight and stressful. All we can do now is wait and see. Sheesh. What a ridiculous group of bafoons we have running our country...

Fiona slept through the night until 5:45 last night! Woo Hoo! She settled back to sleep quite quickly too. I let her nurse anytime after 6 so she woke up and hour later and nursed and dozed in the big bed with me until we got up a 7:30. We have certainly had our rough night but I'm so glad to say that we are tipping the scales towards the good nights at this point. Even though it was hard I"m so glad for night weaning. Thank you for all of your support in our struggles! (I'm sure I'll need it again!)


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## starling&diesel

*Sue* ... I just noticed that it looks like I copied your signature! I swear, those are the smilies that E picked! Sorry! That's obnoxious of me.


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## Mal85

Sue, this month we're reading Revolutionary Road. I just started it so I haven't gotten far enough to tell how much I like it yet. It's by Richard Yates. When we meet to discuss it, we're also going to watch the movie, should be fun! One of our favorite reads was The Help by Kathryn Stockett and we're going to make a book club night of it when the movie is released later this year and go see the movie together. Last month we read Room by Emma Donoghue, and I could not put it down it was so good!


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## Everrgreen

Well it only took R about 24 hours to wear me back down to an eye-twitching tense mess. AGH! I keep browsing through my photos to try and relax again, but staring at the beach while being screamed at just isn't the same. I wonder if it's too soon to book my mom for a weekend away 

He still has diarrhea and loud gas too. But his clingy and whiny -ness seem about normal.

Mal - I hope your car sells tonight!!

AK - Wow, I'm sorry to hear about dh's job. Keeping my fingers crossed that everything works out for you!

Cindy - Yay for good numbers!! Sending you lots of healthy sticky vibes!!

Oh, and I would be ok with Royce weaning. He is still nursing though. Is it possible that he could be 'nursing' even though he's not getting milk? Or would he stop if the milk stopped? Anyone know? Maybe I should go do some googling!


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## justKate

Everrgreen, glad you had a good time!! Is it the whining that gets to you? Aubs does this fake cry that makes me want to slap her. I wouldn't, but geez. I just tell her to stop, STOP, STOP! Tell me what you want. And I'm not above walking away, or putting on the Wonder Pets DVD so that I can think without the fake-cry whining. I don't like to raise my voice but sometimes it's the only way to get through to her in a way that she doesn't percieve as esclating the imaginary confrontation she's having with me. Sometimes using a lower, sharp voice instead of actually raising my voice works too. I hope R feels better soon.

Mal, yay for selling the car!! What do you think you'll get?

Cindy, was M born at home? I can't remember. It's great that you have lots of options. Do you have a midwife in mind already?

Sue, we're looking at not getting paid either. Actually it's a double-whammy, because my state job is federally funded. Our big boss did a conference call last week and told us that they have enough reserves to continue to pay us for "a while" if federal funding is delayed, and that they don't anticipate furloughs. DH's boss sent out an email reminding him (and everyone) that he's exempt and has to work/go to school whether he gets paid or not. We were told that he'll (eventually) be paid for it all, and that our Apr. 15th paycheck might only pay us through today. So at least we'll have a small paycheck on the 15th, and hopefully those







UAVs can work it out in time for us to get our May 1st paycheck on time. The bigger issue is that we're supposed to be moving next month, and if we don't get paid, we won't be moving until we do. Ugh. If your DH is not exempt he should go file for unemployment the day they tell him he's furloughed or whatever.


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## AKislandgirl

So glad that crisis was (narrowly) averted! With less then an hour to go they finally came up with a budget plan.

But now onto the next crisis... Dh's dad has been pretty sick. We just found out today that he has prostate cancer. He is scheduled to undergo radiation and hormone therapy in a couple of weeks. We have been trying to call each week to see how he is doing. I feel like if we hadn't called today they may not have even told us about this diagnosis. DH is pretty upset. Basically he got off the phone, told me what his mom said, and headed outside... I don't really know how to help him feel better about this. We are sooo far away from his family. They live in Ohio. Lots of prayers and good thoughts would be appreciated.


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## Everrgreen

AK - I'm so sorry to hear about your FIL. I will keep him and your family in my thoughts *hugs*

I'm glad to hear your dh's job is safe! I actually hadn't heard about any of that stuff so I went on CNN to read about it 

Kate - Definitely the whining. He whines/cries soooo much. And he is really cling. He would rather sit on my lap all day then play, what's with that?? And he has to be right on my lap, not beside me, right on top of me. All. Day. Long. He will play if I actively play with him, but I just don't want to!

Today was a good day though, beautiful sunny weather and warm enough to be outside for a long time. We actually went for our first bike ride of the year!! He was soooo excited to go and it was fun. We biked to the park and he played for a while 

At the moment I am cooking a meal with meat for the first time in over 5 years. I recently fell off the Vegetarian wagon and started eating chicken/fish at restaurants (lots of fish/seafood in the Bahamas!). This is the first time I'm cooking it myself though. Maple-mustard chicken with roasted potatoes. I hope I do ok. Although, it's just me and R so if I mess up no one will know. R has yet to actually try meat, we've been vegetarian since he was born until now, and I've offered but he won't eat it.


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Prayer coming for your FIL! My dad found out he had prostate cancer last year. Thankfully they had found it so early they just went in and removed his prostate and they were able to get it all. He didn't have to do an further treatment. You say he has been sick - is it from the cancer? I know how scared and awful your DH feels! Lots of phone calls and maybe some care packages will help, even though you are so far. So glad the budget got worked out. I almost wonder if they just did it all for the dramatics.

Gillian: M went through a clingy phase. I too thought I might go mad. I hope it is just a phase for you too.

I got Natural Family Living from Mothering today at a rummage sale for $1. Off to go read that. Oh and question for you mamas who are pregnant w/#2 - when did you start to notice your tummy getting bigger? Just curious. 

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks Ladies. Cindy, so glad to hear that your dad is ok. It's scary to hear the C word. We are just praying they can get it all with the radiation therapy. I think DH is going to head out for a visit in a couple of months too. Just to help around the house and take some of the burden off his mom for a bit. Thankfully they have tons of family nearby that will be a huge support to them during this.

I'm 14 weeks today and have really begun to feel movement! It's so awesome! I was commenting to DH how different this pregnancy is... not much morning sickness, major exhaustion (thankfully mostly past me!), feeling braxton hicks early (I never felt them with F), and feeling baby move early.

DH was presenting at a conference here in town. His was the last talk before the lunch break so we decided to go and attempt to hear his talk before joining him for lunch. As soon as he walked to the front to begin his talk Fiona yelled, "There's my Papa!" We decided to wait out in the hall, lol! I think it will be a few years before we can sit through a scientific presentation!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: That's so cute!! LOL!! OMG you feel movement already? WOW! So cool.

I am beginning the midwife search. There are a lot of homebirth midwives in my area. I've narrowed it down to 4. One is coming over on Wednesday evening. It's a bit early since I don't think I need to start care for a few weeks, but I hear they fill up so better to get the one you want locked in. Also, I emailed the student midwife who was present at Makenna's birth to ask about midwife reccomendations and I mentioned I will be looking to hire a doula to watch M at the birth. She said she'd be happy to do it. This makes me SO happy! She was at every prenatal and we really got to know her and she is like a friend. She even lives relatively close. I feel very good about having her around for another birth. Of the 3 people at M'd birth (midwife and 2 students), this girl was the most calming to me.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Sue* ... I'm so jealous that you can feel the baby! I'm 14w 3d and can't feel anything yet. Of course I'm worried. This is my least favourite part of pregnancy. Between heartbeat-hearing occasions, and not feeling the baby yet. My constant nausea should be reassurance enough. And I'm still barfing! What the heck is WITH that???

*Cindy* ... That's wonderful that you already have care set up for M at the birth! I don't know what we'll do. My mom will want to be present for the birth, as will my sister, who is my doula. Those are the two people who look after her. She's never been with anyone else, ever! I'm hoping that my sister's girlfriend will be with her.

*Ever* ... How was your meaty meal made by you? I was vegetarian for fifteen years, and I keenly remember the first few times I ate meat after taking my naturopath's advice to give it a fair try.

*justKate* ... Did your hubby's work situation get resolved?


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## aHikaru

i am so in love with my babe, born 2/24/09, she is really bright for her age, i call her my mini me


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## AKislandgirl

Welcome *Cassandraz*!

*Starling*, I've really only begun to feel movement in the last few days. I'm so sorry that you are still puking. that is the worst!

*Cindy*, I'm so glad you have someone lined up to watch M. That is my biggest concern right now. I know my mom will want to be at the birth but she may have to be home with Fiona instead. If she gets to town in time. Ugh. stressing me out.

So last night Fiona was having a hard time falling asleep. She was totally wired from an open house/dinner we went to as part of the conference DH is involved with. She was making all kinds of excuses why she needed to get up. This was my favorite...

"Oh no, I can't find my eyebrows on my head! It's missing! Better get up and check it." I was trying so hard not to laugh at her!

After more tossing and turning and shenanigans I yelled at her to close her eyes and go to sleep! Very calmly she said, "You're not being very nice to me Mom." OMG, where did this wild thing come from! And I'm pretty sure I fell asleep before she did!


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## Everrgreen

AK - LOL! I love the quotes! R has also been saying so many funny things lately. His vocabulary is getting better which means more interesting comments  One of my favourite things he does is answer his own questions, he'll say something and say 'yeah?' 'Ok!' For example 'I have cookie?' 'Yeah?' 'Ok!' Meanwhile, I have yet to say anything lol!

Starling - I did a good job cooking the chicken, but I overcooked the sauce. It wasn't quite burnt but it was too thick. Oh well! It still tasted good  I probably won't add a lot of meat to our diet, just once in a while.

So I decided to get a non-hormonal iud and went for a pap test today. I have a new doctor and she said I have a retroverted uterus and my cervix is hard to find, so I'm being referred to a gyno for the iud (which means I have to wait a few months - kind of annoying). I find it odd that my old doctor and my midwives never said anything about this?? Very strange!


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## Thursday Girl

glad the pay thing got striaghtened out, I was up when it happened and thought of you.

Everrgreen, loved your photos! Sorry R was sick when you got back. As for nursing some babies still nurse even when the milk has dried up, there is also a good chance his sucking will bring the milk back ..

Sue, that's a VERY funny quote. My 8 year old told me I was using intimidation to try and control her.

So DH is home for good and we find out in a day or two if we have to sue thembecause they haven't paid him. Hubs is super stressed and upset that I plan on borrowing money from my sisters ot pay the bills, but really what else are we supposed to do. What they owe us is 2/3 of our monthly budget and right now we are stealing gas so we can cook and take hot showers. We have a lawyer friend who will be able to represent us if we do have to sue them, and at this point Hubs WANTS to sue them b/c he's so angry that his family has had to wonder how we will buy food (and borrow money now too, he is almost too proud).

WHINING/CRYING- Junes has gotten so ANNOYING with this. She will just stand at my feet and cry and cry, and I can't hold her ALL THE TIME. I have to take care of the other kids, mornigns are the worst because I have to get the older girls ready. Also today she threw the hugest tantrum b/c I wouldn't leave both my boobs out while she nursed. can't wait for this whiney annoying bit to be OVER.

Hooray for movement, don't get too worried if you don't feel it for awhile. Before the regular "feel the move" date you might notice you don't feel the movement. think of this as an pleasant extra.


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## starling&diesel

Oh, *Courtney*, that sounds so stressful! I'm sending Pay-Them-Right-Now-Scumbag vibes to your DH's employer!

As for my feeling so nervous, I said to heck with it and went and had a quick doppler check at the midwives. Of course, all is fine. That should tide me over for the couple of weeks until my next appointment.


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## Vegan Princess

Oh Courtney - I am so sorry you are dealing with that! What evil criminals - taking food from the mouths of babes! Argh! You SHOULD sue them!!

Starling: How nice that they could do that for you. 

Sue: Funny quote!

Everr: Hmmm...you were able to find your cervix when you were charting, right? How odd! I wonder if giving birth rearranged things? Oh well, better to go to someone good at inserting them since there is a bit of risk of perforating your uterus.

I'm loving M's repertoire of songs these days. She does long medleys of bunches of songs mixed together. And today she pulled Jingle Bells out of no where? I have no idea where she got that from??

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

starling- can you get a fetalscope and learn to use it?

evrrgreen, have you heard of mayan womb massage, mothering did an article on it.

thanks ladies.


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## Mal85

Courtney, I so hope they get it worked out soon, how stressful! My BIL had a similar situation last year and is in the process of suing the company he works for right now. He was off for an injury that he needed surgery for and they weren't paying his workman's comp. With his being the only income, they were in the same boat as you are now, but with 5 kids to feed!

Starling, glad you got some reassurance, it's so hard not to worry!

Sue, I'm so jealous that you're feeling movement! I felt Owyn for the first time when I was 14 weeks and it was so great! I'm hoping I feel this one just as early, maybe earlier!!

I had an appt with my midwife yesterday and got to hear the heartbeat. At 10 weeks, it was still kind of hard to find with the doppler. But it was fast and strong once we found it, 181 bpm! Two more appointments before we have the sonogram to see the gender, I'll be 19 weeks, can't wait!!! It should be growing its parts right about now, so I'm sending lots of penis-growing vibes its way!


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## starling&diesel

*Courtney* ... When I was pregnant with E I could find the heartbeat with the small bell on my stethoscope at about twenty weeks, so I think I can wait until then. I did see if there were any locally on CL, but no luck.

*Mal* ... Rooting for a boy? Do you have a feeling either way? I'm pretty sure this one is a boy, but DP is pretty sure we're having a girl. I don't think we'll find out, although we waffle on that decision all the time.

*Cindy*, I love the songs they come up with too! E's current repertoire is mostly songs from our weekly story time, Mary Poppins and Annie. She breaks out in song all the time. It's very sweet. Yesterday she was 'skipping' (not at all coordinated enough to actually do it, but she tries and ends up with an adorable sort of lurch) and singing, "Let's go fly a kite, up to the highest height," which is funny because she's actually quite afraid of kites and doesn't like it when we fly her fairy kite or DP's stunt kite. How are you feeling, *Cindy*?

And what's going on in the enchanted world of Katmai and Lituya? *Mckittre*?


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## nikol2271

We have 22month old twins, boy and girl, and one frozen embryo left. any suggestions on when to try this one? what age is a good one for the twins to try to have another??? they will be 2 in june. 3yrs? 4 or? also i just turned 40 in january. thanks!!


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## AKislandgirl

I've been wondering about Mckittre too... hmm

It's 8:30 and Fiona is still asleep and never even woke up to nurse in the early morning hours (usually around 6:30). I'm shocked! DH said this morning... I've heard about kids sleeping like that just never though it would be our kid! 

A beautiful sunny day in Kodiak. Can't wait to get out to play today.


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## Everrgreen

Thursday - I am so sorry your dh's employ is doing that!! That is awful!!! I hope everything works out and you don't have to take them to court. What a pain!

And I remember that article! I'll have to go find it. AK, you did the womb massage, right? Did you have retroverted uterus?

Cindy - Yes I did check my cervix back in the day. I should try again, I never had a problem finding it. So weird!

Starling - Glad to hear the doppler has put your mind at ease!! Hopefully your little babe will start squirming soon 

Mal - Oh I don't know 181 bbm says 'girl' to me  Fingers crossed for you though!

I left Royce naked from after dinner last night until we had to leave the house this morning and he had NO ACCIDENTS!! He peed on the pottty everytime!!! He asked for a diaper when he first woke up but I told him to use the potty and he did!! All the other times were completely on his own initiative. We were out all morning and now he's napping but when he wakes up I'm going to have him go naked again and use the potty!!!

Oh and as of today I officially have court-ordered sole custody


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## justKate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Everrgreen*
> 
> Oh and as of today I officially have court-ordered sole custody










THAT is the best news I've heard all day!! I'm so glad that is done.


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## Mal85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Everrgreen*
> 
> Mal - Oh I don't know 181 bbm says 'girl' to me  Fingers crossed for you though!


I know! When she said it was so fast, I was kinda worried! That was when she first found it though and shortly after, you could hear it slow down a little. Maybe the doppler just startled my poor little guy. I'm okay with whatever we get, but I just can't picture anything but a boy. From the moment I found out, I keep imagining a little baby boy. And with Owyn, we could only ever come up with boy names, hence our girl with a traditionally male name. And she was a girl. Now, all I can think of are girl names. I'm just not in love with any boy names. Maybe the same logic will work.









Congrats on sole custody!! You must be very relieved.


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## AKislandgirl

*mal*: You can always name him Sue!







Fiona's heart rate was always around 180. This time we've gotten 160 each time we've checked (3x's now).

*Everrgreen*: Yeah for sole custody! I'm so happy you have that done! Woo Hoo!  I did mayan womb massage and I really feel that is why it was so much easier to conceive for us this time. My uterus wasn't retroverted but it was off to one side quite a bit. You can't do the massage with an IUD in. If you are interested in trying it do it before you get your IUD.

I'm totally impressed with R's use of the potty! That is so awesome! Fiona just pees on the floor when she's naked, even if she sat on the potty for 5 minutes just moments before.


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## aHikaru

thanks!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl*
> 
> Welcome *Cassandraz*!


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## starling&diesel

*Ever* ... Yay! That's wonderful news! I'm referring to your shiny, new, official custody. But the potty success is worth celebrating too!

*Mal* ... The whole heartbeat thing has no foundation in fact. I was madly googling yesterday and most of what came up was about how it's not reflective of the gender at all! And apparently the heartbeat slows way down after about ten weeks, so that number will be very different than the one you're working with now. Ours was 145, which i took straight to Doctor Google, who said that according to the old wives tale, over 140 indicates a girl and below 140 indicates a boy.

*AFM*: We got into a housing co-op! Right across from where we are now, in the neighbourhood we love. It's three bedrooms, which is one more than we have now, and it will cost half of what we pay now in mortgage. We're very excited! I think it'll do just fine while the littles are little, and we can either park our real estate money in an investment or rental property. What a relief to know that we can homeschool without worrying about going bankrupt! Whoo hoo!

*Sue*, E pees on the floor too. I just got a lead on some imse vimse training pants that might fit for her. I might try those.


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## Thursday Girl

everr, congrats on sole custody! good to have htigns settled, and hooray on the potty success!

a boy named sue, chuckle, I LOVE johnny Cash.


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## AKislandgirl

I love johnny cash too!

Courtney: Any resolution to your Dh's paycheck? I can't believe they haven't paid him. What complete Jack A's!

Starling: Does this mean you don't have to go back to work?! Or to less work? To pay half of your mortgage is incredible! Woo Hoo! When do you move? I know you guys have been wanting this for a long time. So happy for your family! BTW, What did you end of getting from that craigslist lead?

Dh was at the local brewery after work last night and was chatting with a friend. The friend has two kids and was filling him in on what life with two kids is like. He said you guys have a 3 bedroom right. No, a tiny 2 bedroom. Will you be looking to move? DH, said yes actually. Same neighborhood? Nope, off island. I was so excited to hear that he was talking to someone else about our plan to move. Makes the plan seem more real. Our goal is to be moved by summer of 2012. I'm ready now but I'll be patient.


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Wow, still in Alaska? Exciting! 2 bedrooms will be fine for now with babies in your room!

Starling: Hooray! So happy you got the coop? I too am wondering if you'll be going back to work? Yay yay yay!

Everr: Congrats on the custody!! You must be SO relieved. And yay for potty! I'm jealous!

I am SO confused about midwives. I met the 1st yesterday and liked her. Spoke to one who used to work at the birth center where M was born today - and found out that my midwife from the birth center (which is too far for us to go to) would be the 2nd midwife at the birth. I thought this girl was my last choice bc she is sort of green, but knowing my midwife that I trust and love would be there changes everything! Though I still have a bit of concern about her making it on time but it's different for her to sit on traffic on the way to me since she is not in labor. Sunday we are meeting with my friend's midwife who has also been at it 30 yrs and on Monday another trio that includes 1 who has been at it 30 yrs - but you get 2 of the 3 at your birth and don't know which of the 3 it will be. I'm so torn. I know this is going to be a really hard decision!!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess*
> 
> Sue: Wow, still in Alaska? Exciting! 2 bedrooms will be fine for now with babies in your room!


Nope... we are going to leave Alaska and head Down South as we say around here. Most likely Washington or Oregon so we can be closer to my family and have an easier time to get to DH's family too. We are nervous because last time we left Alaska we regretted it and came right back. Things are different now though. With kids we want them to know their extended family well and with $1000 per ticket to get to them we are lucky to get there once a year. Plus we really want to have a small farm, huge gardens, and land which isn't possible in Kodiak.

Hope you can find a solution to your midwife dillemma soon!

I've been meaning to ask you guys about this for a while... do your lo's ever complain of leg pain? I feel like its growing pains or something but its always the same leg. she points to her knee or thigh and says it hurts. Usually in the evening when she's tired. We thought maybe just for some attention at first (Dh gave her an ice pack on the couch once and now she says she "needs a pack" when it hurts) but its pretty consistent with the same leg. She doesn't limp and runs, walks, climbs, rides her bike just fine. Any thoughts? She'll complain of it off and on for a week maybe and then nothing for weeks and then is back at it.


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## justKate

Sue, funny you mention that because Aubs is obsessed with her right leg. The lower part of the leg, specifically. She always takes her right sock off, and lately has been telling me that "Jill bite me" and pointing to her leg, even though it's obvious that no one has bitten her leg in the same spot every day for a week. I thought maybe she's having leg cramps, so I'm trying to boost her magneisum. I take mag supplements when I get leg cramps, but I'm not really sure how to do it for her except through food. Bananas are all she's really accepting at the moment, but I'm trying to push spinach and beans too.

Courtney, any update on the pay situation? What a nightmare. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. Do your girls have any plans for the summer? Seems like school ends in May, right?

Everr--I've decided that I like your name. I think it's symbolic for you--the strength of evergreens that don't get to rest during the winter. I like it! Congrats to R on pottying, too! Aubs is pottying all day at daycare, then coming home and peeing on the floor.







I guess it's actually good timing, because we'll have the carpets cleaned before we move out next month. I need to stop asking her whether she wants to sit on the potty and just tell her, "time to sit on the potty" and take her. We're having the same problem on the weekends. I don't usually give her juice during the week, because it spins her up a little and makes bed time more difficult, but I give it to her on the weekend for a treat. So i say "do you want milk, or juice?" She responds, "ju-milk." "Milk or juice?" "JU-MILK!" And then she throws a fit when I give her one or the other. I need to just ask her whether she wants milk. I'm slowly learning.

Starling, hooray for the co-op! Is this the same co-op that acted like you guys were crazy when you looked at a place last time? I can't wait to hear how E does with the move. Do you know when you'll be able to move in?


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## Vegan Princess

M always says her knee hurts and she has a bruise and kiss it. She does fall down a decent amount still but mostly I do think she is just remembering that she HAD a booboo there. That said, I used to get horrible growing pains in my legs. I remember sitting in the hallway crying it hurt so bad. But I was older - younger than 8 (bc it was the 1st house I lived in) but probably at least 5?

Sue: Wow - that is a big change! DH and I sometimes talk about moving to Oregon. It sounds wonderful! I hear you on cost to see family. We usually go see DH's family at xmas and tickets then are almost 1,000 each. Now we need to buy 3 tickets. So his family is talking about celebrating xmas at a different time of year so we can all get together and not spend so much on tickets. They don't know yet that we can't go this year anyway bc if all goes as planned, we'll have brand new baby then. DH and I are both relieved not to have to travel at xmas.


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## Mal85

Owyn's never really complained of anything in particular hurting. Her legs are covered in bruises though. I never realized how often she falls down and bangs her legs on things until she started wearing shorts and dresses with the warm weather. People must think I beat her!

Starling, congrats on the house!! I'm also curious about whether you'll be returning to work or not? How awesome!

Gah! My stupid job situation, it just seems to be never-ending! I sent in my resume a few weeks ago for a preschool teacher job, I think I mentioned it here. They're still accepting resumes, so I haven't gotten a call yet for an interview. I'd love that because it's only 3 days a week. And, honestly, I'd probably keep something like that until my kids are all in school, then maybe get a full time job. But the pay is roughly what I make right now and at the moment, we're not able to pay on my student loan so I'm in deferment until our income goes up. DH is due for a promotion end of this year/beginning of next year. Which would help, but we're also planning on getting a bigger house. I'm not sure how much of the extra income that would eat up.

Anyway, I got a letter asking if I wanted to be considered for another state position. It's only a 20 minute drive away, the other letters I've received are at least a 45 minute drive away, so I've ignored most of them. I know DH will want me to call about it, but I'm not sure. I'm pregnant, ya know. I won't have worked for them for a year by the time I have the baby, so I don't know if I'd even be eligible for any maternity benefits. Plus, it's full time. Part of me is kind of tired of being at home, but I think something part time would fulfill the need to get out of the house. Anyway.... I'm just venting really. It's tough to decide. I haven't been offered either job so I guess I should just not worry about it right now.

Oh and to add to the difficulty... we had decided that I'll just keep one sibling set on if I'm still doing daycare when the baby is born. Now that family isn't 100% sure they'll be using daycare anymore after they have their new baby. She says she'll for sure return to work, she wants to try it and see how it goes. But, she might decide to quit her job and stay home, which would put me in a really rough position because all my other kids are part-time. There's no way I'd make up the income. And if I advertised for a full time kid, I'd likely get a newborn which I don't want when I'm having a baby... So, getting a job might end up being the only option for me.


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## Everrgreen

Mal - That's a lot of things to think about! You should probably apply for the job 20 minutes for now, you can always change your mind later. That is so frustrating not knowing about your home daycare though, that puts you in a very difficult spot!! I'll keep my fingers crossed for the preschool job for you! It sounds like that's a good fit for you right now 

Kate - Aww Thanks  I like my new name too!

Starling - Woohoo! That's awesome!! So happy for you!!!!

AK - That's very exciting that you have some real plans to make your big move! Next summer will come before you know it 

And Royce is kicking a$$ at pottying!! I have been leaving him completely naked when we're at home and he's only had one small accident (and that was while wearing pants and sitting in his highchair at breakfast). And he is initiating it too! He'll say he has to pee on the potty (and even poo on the potty!) and he'll go and do it. Then if I'm not with him he'll carry the potty to me to show me and we dump it in the toilet and flush it and celebrate!! I was planning on waiting a bit longer to start all of this but he sort of just did it on his own and it really seems to have clicked so now I don't want to put him back in diapers!!! (although I do when we go out) I hope he keeps it up!!

Oops, as I was typing that R was jumping on the bed beside me and had a little leak :/ In his defence he belly flopped onto the bed so I think it was unintentional


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## starling&diesel

Thanks for the congrats on the co-op! We are sooooo relieved (so long as it actually pans out) that we can start to breath a little easier financially. I'll keep up my license, for sure, just in case, but I can work less and be more choosy and won't freak out when family can't be with E while I work (like next month, for example). So I'm not going to bring anyone in to look after her, because our finances should ease off considerably once we move into the co-op.

And yes, *justkate*, it is the co-op that rejected us last year, but we're grinning and saying "thank you" and movin' on. I do have my reservations about the place (60 or so ****** running a co-op? Yikes!), but I will deal with it for the savings and for being able to stay in our super duper crunchy queer neighbourhood. And speaking of ju-milk, E usually wants some of each. She asks for juicewater (because we dilute it) and milk. And God forbid if you only offer one. She wants both!

*Sue* ... If you move to the Pacific Northwest we can be friends in Real Life too! That'd be awesome! Camping! And as for leg issues ... and risk for celiac? I am celiac, and that was one of my biggest complaints as a child. Leg pain. Random, unexplainable, painful and persistent.

*Ever* ... I'm having potty envy. I never knew there was such a thing, but it's true. I'm jealous of R's toiletting habits.

*Mal* ... That's a hard decision. I don't even have a clue what I would do in your situation. I hope that a decision suddenly becomes very easy and obvious for you!


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## Everrgreen

Ughhhh, I'm sick  I think it may have been something I ate. I've had stomach cramps and diarrhea all night long. I feel so awful... I hope R goes easy on me bc I want to stay in bed and hide all day.


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: I hope you get well soon and manage to get some rest! Ugh!

So we saw the pediatric ENT this morning. M's adenoids are big and her tonsils are big. He said we can take them out now or we can wait until after summer and see if they shrink down some when it isn't cold season. Though he said, given my family history, it's not too likely to happen. So now we need to decide if we just do it now and let her breath better now or wait 6 months and maybe it will be better or maybe we will just have to do it anyway. Also he reccomended doing her tonsils too but said we didn't have to. I definitely am leaning towards NOT doing her tonsils now. It is much more painful and much longer recovery than just adenoids and she is so little still. There will be a risk of needing a 2nd surgery if she does need them out later but at least she will hopefully be older and able to communicate a bit better. She communicates great now but when she is sick or upset she still just cries and doesn't verbalize what is wrong. Ugh. I hate having to decide what to do! I kind of think we might just go ahead and do the adenoids soon. Her breathing sounds so crappy. I hate to make her suffer if she is just going to need to do this in the end anyway.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Oh no! Poor M! I think your plan of doing it sooner rather than later is what I would do. Also, would her breathing be worse in the summer with the heat? If so it would be nice to have it done before it gets too hot.

I've managed to stay in bed for 95% of the day, so that's a success  My stomach still hurts, but no more diarrhea. R has spent the day in bed with me playing, climbing on me, chatting and chatting and chatting (and of course everything requires a response from me). It has taken all my energy just to talk to him and deal with being climbed on. AF just started too, so that probably explains why I'm so exhausted. Hopefully I'll feel better tomorrow.

In more exciting news! R has been diaper free all day with no accidents. He did however spill a potty full of pee on the bed when he brought it in to show me. I've tried to encourage him to just leave the potty in the bathroom, but he really likes to carry it over to whereever I am. I'm also doing my best to scrounge up enough energy for a little celebration and high-five each time (the celebrating has gone downhill though). I don't know where this sudden pottying breakthrough came from but I'm not turning back now! I'm wondering when I should attempt an outing without a diaper. I feel like I'll need to bring his potty with me!


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## Nillarilla

I've been reading but no time to write.

*Everr* - hope you are on the mend and that's fabulous about the pottying and the custody!!!! The bahamas sound fabulous!

*Cindy* - Glad you are getting some answers about M's breathing. I would do the surgery too. I might take both out though I had some wicked tonsilitis bouts when I was a kid and had them out when I was about 8. I don't remember the recovery being all that bad but the tonsilitis was awful. My ds has breathing issues when he gets sick. He struggles to breath and his airway gets inflamed. It is so incredibly scary I couldn't imagine hearing him like that when he was well too. Hugs to you.

*Starling* congrats on your coop! and to less money on housing! Boo to the still puking. I hope that gets better for you soon. My cousin who is a dear friend has hyperemesis and is 14wks and still puking fulltime. So rough!

*Thursday* I hope Karma bites those guys holding the money HARD!

*Mal* I truly believe the job situation will pan out for you.

*Justkate* maybe you could boost Aubrey's magnesium through a grain. I think buckwheat is high in mg and it makes a fabulous breakfast cereal if you grind it into a mealy substance like cornmeal. Maybe she would eat it with a little maple syrup?

*Sue* I think our LO's are in the same boat with the no gluten right? Is she off dairy? Maybe that would help? Or varying the grains in her diet to boost the vitamins. I've recently introduced teff and buckwheat to Dee's diet and she actually really loves them. I just got simply sugar and gluten free cookbook and it has a 7 grain breakfast cereal in it that you can do in the slowcooker that looks delish. I'll let you know if it's kid approved. I think about moving closer to family all the time and we only live 800km away. It's so hard when the kids are missing the family.

AFM: I'm party preparing today. It's Ds's birthday on the 23rd but we are having the party tommorow. I am making gluten free cake pops with chocolate cake and raspberry jam. They will be a superhero theme, batman, superman, spiderman. We are having a pinata and a few games. A couple of the kids and parents can't come but ah well it will be small and still fun. I really can't believe my boy is 5! I'm not even 30 and I have a 5yo! Sob, sniff and yes a little panic! It's a good thing this parenting thing changes progressively. I know I totally would have flopped if I started with a 5yo.


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## Nillarilla

Cassandraz!!!!


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## Thursday Girl

Starling- Hooray on the coop, that's fabulous!

Sue, I would probably apply for the 20 minute away job.

Everrgreen, hope you are feeling better.

Potty learning- Junes decided to start using the potty and did it, at home, in the car, while we are out. Then she had 2 days with a bunch of accidnets and now is back on the potty train.

Cindy- glad you are getting M's problem figured out. I think I would do both at once.

Job situation- They are still being assholes but we are taking care of the situation. We did have to borrow money from my sister which was harder to my ego than I thought. We do have a few things that are looking up, like our tax return. So some major problems with our house will finally be able to be taken care of.

do any of your babies do better with your partner? When Hubs has her she hardly fusses or cries. She is just really laid back, but when I am around she wants me to hold her or nurse her ALL THE TIME! frusttrating


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## Mal85

Courtney, Owyn is always better for DH. She goes to sleep easier for him, plays independently when she's with him, listens better for him, etc. It's frustrating, but I tell myself it's only because she's with me all day everyday, so of course I'm the one she's going to push the boundaries for more often. Plus, DH is more of a hard a$$ than I am so I think she's learned she can't get by with as much with him.

Well, after an extremely busy morning yesterday dealing with banks and buyers and dealerships, we sold our car and bought the minivan! I'm so excited. And we even kept everything right at the price range we wanted, which we weren't sure was going to happen. Owyn is getting ready to go for her first ride in the new van!


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## Thursday Girl

that's good news Mal, happy it all worked out.


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## mckittre

Wow, a lot to catch up with! I didn't drop off the face of the earth, but we all were out of town for the last week and a half, and I just never got a chance to get online at all. Went for a book event in Sitka and some other presentations in towns along the way. It was fun, despite trying to give talks sometimes while also trying to keep Katmai quiet (luckily there are two of us adults). With all our stops I had to go through airport security 4 times, and had a sleeping baby in a wrap every single time, which means they decided to pat me down, and for some reason, they had to do Katmai as well

Katmai really enjoyed it all. I think now that he can speak well enough that everyone can understand him, he's a lot more confident approaching new people and kids.

Don't have time to catch up with the whole thread right now, but glad to hear all the pregnancies are going well. Will be back later to read more.


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## AKislandgirl

*Erin:* glad to hear from you! I love Sitka! I lived there every summer for years (age 12-22). I spent the first half of my senior year at Sitka High too. So many great memories from Sitka!! My sister and brothers all lived there with their families at the time. In fact I met DH in Sitka! Now I'm feeling all nostalgic! Is the Backdoor coffee shop still there? That was my summer job for many years! WE still have close friends there but no family. I'd love to get back for a visit. I have to admit that SE Alaska is really where my heart is. Kodiak just doesn't have the same feeling about it.

*Starling:* You really have me thinking about the Celiac thing. She doesn't get any gluten directly but we aren't careful about cross contamination. It's been fine for keeping her skin clear and gaining weight but other things may be at play. For example, we all use the same toaster... DH eats regular bread and Fiona and I eat gluten free. hmm...

*Nilla:* She does eat dairy and doesn't seem to have any problems with it. Other then this random leg pain thing which may just be growing pains she is doing great so my gut tells me dairy is fine. I can't take dairy out of my diet right now anyway. Being pregnant I'm just not comfortable eliminating that from my diet at this point. She still nurses and I do know that when I eat gluten it affects her.

So last week I was sure I was feeling the babe move and now nothing for days. I know its still early but goodness it has my brain worrying. I don't have an appt till the 25th. It can't come fast enough! I want to hear that heartbeat again! I'm ready for obvious constant movement!


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## Nillarilla

Sue, cross contamination seems to affect Cordelia quite a bit. Now that she is not nursing and getting gluten through breastmilk I definitely notice it more. Like if there is flour on the table and she touches it and puts her fingers in her mouth she will be whiny and fussy and have a bit of diarrhea usually. One time I used a stone cookie sheet that I got used from someone and didn't put parchment paper down. She vomited that night and had intestinal issues for a day or two. Even minute amounts seem to bother her. That's lucky that Fiona can have dairy. Pizza is one thing I wish dd could experience fully. I found a fabulous gf pizza crust. But it's just not the same with the daiya cheese.

Mal that's great about the minivan!

AFU We had ds's birthday party yesterday and half the kids for the party couldn't make it. The pinata was a hit but next time I think I would weaken it a bit. It was really hard to break even for my 5yo. We all have a nasty cold here. Kids seem to be on the mend but dh and I still feel crappy.


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## AKislandgirl

I hope Cordelia grows out of some of those allergies (at least dairy!!). Have you seen changes in DS's allergies as he's gotten older? I'm glad he had a great party. Hope the colds pass quickly!

Sunshine has hit Kodiak. It's low 40's but we've been treating it like a tropical vacation! Lots of outdoor time, eating on the deck... I can't tell you how many teenage boys I've seen around town without their shirts on. Totally cracks me up! You'd think it was in the 80's!

I just spent half an hour extracting a sliver from my daycare girls foot. Sheesh! She was amazingly patient. It was one of those annoying ones that was broken in half so it took a long time to get out. As a reward for her patience and bravery she's watching Dino Dan before nap time. I dread the day Fiona gets a sliver... she won't be nearly so still and patient! I wonder if the fact that I'm not her mom gave her the extra courage to cooperate.

Mal: Are you digging' your new ride?! How fun to have a new car! I bet you are enjoying the extra space! More outings with the kids! I find anytime we can get to the park or anyplace outside the house the day goes so much faster.

By the way, Starling and Nillarilla. have you guys seen the gluten free crusty boule recipe on the bread in 5 minutes a day website? We love it for bread and even more so for pizza crust. And for you gluten eaters check out some of the other recipes on the site. Good stuff!


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## Mal85

I got a job interview! I go this Friday afternoon, it's for the state job 20 minutes away. Now, I just have to figure out what to tell my daycare families about why I have to leave in the middle of the day for the millionth time in the last month. I can almost always find someone to come stay with the kids, but all these doctor's appointments and other things that keep coming up... I feel like such a flake lately.

And, yes, we are loving the new van! DH wasn't thrilled about getting a van, but he's loving it as much as I am. Even Owyn seems to love the extra room she has.


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: LOL about people stripping down in 40 degree weather! I'm glad you're enjoying being outside! Now that it's warming up here, DH is using the grill a lot - which means I don't have to cook. I love it!

Mal: Yay - good luck at your interview!!!

Erin: Welcome back!

Aww ladies - I was curious just now if any of my old subscriptions to our due date club were still available to me. Turns out they all are! I was wondering about when things started in my last preg and wanted to go back and look. Unfortunately, I didn't start posting until I was 10 or 11 weeks so I don't get the answers I was looking for just yet. But I'm sure I will be reading some of those threads as time goes on. And it just was a happy and fun feeling to go back and see posts from you guys too when we were so early on!

DH and I didn't talk about the surgery this weekend. Hopefully we will decide soon.

I think we decided for sure to get chickens! I think we might get our babies next weekend and that will give DH 5 weeks to build a hutch and run. Yay!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Congrats on the interview mal! Woo Hoo! Knock em dead!

Cindy: You will love have chickens! They are so much fun. Handle them a lot and they will be mellow and used to it. Our first batch of chickens were crazy and hated to be held. These ladies love it! M will be in love!

ow do you get to your old posts. I'd like to find when things were happening with me too!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Click on "subscriptions" on the top right hand part of the screen. You should find every thread you've subscribed to. I'm not sure if you can find by post on threads you didn't subscribe to?

So we met our last midwives tonight and I think made a decision. Deciding to go with the non-CNM midwife who has 32 years experience. I would have been happy to go with the CNM we met tonight that has 30 yrs experience but she shares her practice with 3 other midwives and there is only a 50% chance she would be at the birth. Plus I just felt we clicked best with the other midwife. Glad the search is over. Now I won't need to actually see her for another 6 weeks!

Also, DH and I both decided to go ahead with M's surgery now. No tonsils now though. So I am going to call tomorrow to schedule. I so want her to be able to breath but I am so not looking forward to sending my baby off into surgery! :-(

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - *hugs* what a difficult decision to have to make. But she will be fine and it will be so worth it when it's done. Thinking of you!

AK - You can also do an 'advanced search' and search by your username and click to show results as posts.

Mal - Woohoo!! Good luck with your interview!!

Royce is still using the potty consistently.. As long as he is naked :/ I put pants on him yesterday and he had an accident. He did ask to go potty once with the pants on. The next time though he told me he had to go potty but he'd already peed. Then he said he had to poop on the potty so I took off the wet pants and he went and did his poop on the potty. It's still a work in progress I guess! I'm going to keep trying wearing pants at home and hopefully he will figure it out, then I will need to brave a diaper-free outing!


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: Royce is doing awesome!! Obviously you can't expect perfection from the get go. 

So we scheduled M's surgery for 3 weeks from today. Eeck! No tonsils, just adenoids. They said 5 day recovery and are mailing me all the info I need about it.

Tell me if I was out of line today mamas? Today the mom of the little girl I watch brought her over and they brought her potty. She said C was wearing her big girl panties. C is not potty trained at all save for the occasional peeing on the potty (she is 2 months older than our little ones). And her mom started off "so she is wearing big girl panties". And I said "oh yay is she using the potty now?" her mom says "NO. What happens is she has an accident...." So since she is not using the potty and only having accidents in the pants, I asked her mom to change her into a diaper. I don't want to deal with someone else's kid peeing all over my rug and couch when she isn't even trying to use the potty. I think she's not ready to be out of the house or at other people's houses like that. I felt really bad asking and like my friend was dissapointed, though I'm sure she understood. It's one thing if she is really trying and has an accident, but not cool if it is guaranteed. I still have yet to get over the squimishness factor of my own kid peeing on our stuff! Was I out of line? Should I have let her stay in her big girl panties?

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Umm, NO, definitely not out of line! Like you said, it would be one thing if the little girl was trying but had the occasional accident, but knowing that for sure she would be peeing her pants? I'm not sure why the mom would even want that?

I did let R run around naked at my friends house the other day, but he used the potty every time. (then I put a diaper on him to go to the mall and it leaked everywhere! Ugh! His original pockets from almost 2 years ago are in rough shape!)

So I have started my spring cleaning/moving prep. I have a ton of stuff that I need to sell/donate. I'm trying to sell some of the bigger things on Kijiji and then I will have a yard sale once the weather is nicer. I have some things that I will probably have to convince my mom to store for me too. Things I don't want to get rid of permanently but won't have room for when I move in September. I'm also going to be selling my wedding dress and rings, it's about time I figure!


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## Mal85

Yeah, Cindy, I would have done the same thing. I have some kiddos potty training right now in daycare. Their moms asked me what I would prefer and I told them once they are more accident free than not then we can switch to underwear at daycare. Otherwise, they wear their diaper or training pants of some kind. I wouldn't want someone else's kid peeing all over my house either. It's bad enough when it's your own!


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## justKate

Oh HECK NO that child would not be in panties. Sounds to me like she wants you to potty train her kid. And maybe you can, but it would be out of pull-ups, for sure. I think the polite thing would be to ask you if you think her DD would be ready for trainers/panties during the day. Aubs' daycare teacher mentioned one day (a while back) that she was holding her pee for a long time, and would it be okay for her to sit Aubs on the potty? I was super excited. Now I send her in disposable pull ups, and she is dry all day (from what they tell me). I think I'm going to secretly mark her diaper so that I can see if she's really in the same one or not at the end of the day. When we're home in the evenings, she wears those cloth trainers and pees a little in them maybe every other day. When we go out she's in a diaper. I'm not going to deal with her peeing all over a grocery cart, herself, and me until I'm 100% ready to be done with diapers.

And really, for the daycare girl, I don't see why she needs to wear panties to potty train. Can't she do the same thing with a diaper?

Everr--hooray for moving! The purging is going to feel good. Definitely get some $$ for your wedding dress and rings! Then get something just for you with that money.


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## Everrgreen

It already feels good just having things organized and seeing the big pile of stuff that I've decided to get rid of! I have the hardest time selling things though. I never know what to price things at and I get impatient quickly. So far I've sold 2 things, both went pretty much right away (and then I worry that I priced them too low...) I've had interest in a few other things too so hopefully they will sell quickly. Mostly I've been trying to price things at around half of what they cost new. At some point I'm just going to have to get rid of them though, but hopefully I'll get a fair price.


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## justKate

Why are partners so stupid sometimes? This morning Huz asked me if I was cheating on him. Seriously. I laughed and told him to shut up, that I was going to be late to work if he picked a fight with me over something stupid.

But now I'm sort of pissed that he would ask me that in a serious way. Like I have one ounce of emotional or physical energy to devote to another adult. I can barely manage the relationships I have. Ugh. I have to admit, polgamy appeals to me. I could really use the help, the friendship...and then Huz would be to busy being nagged by both of us to ask me stupid questions.


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## AKislandgirl

Kate: what the heck is that all about?! DH can irritate the heck out of me sometimes but he's never gone there thank god. I might have to smack him or something.

Cindy: Not out of line at all. I would have done the same thing.

Everrgreen: So great to be getting rid of stuff. I'm terrible at it. We have tons of stuff in storage though and I know we need to have a garage sale this summer. This house is just too small to keep so much stuff. One thing I have a hard time with is Fiona's clothes. I've either donated, given to my niece or kept her clothes as she's outgrown them. I have a fair amount that I've kept though. So if this little bean ends up being a boy what do I do with her clothes? Keep them in case we have another girl? Get rid of them? Start hoarding the boy clothes this baby will outgrow? Sheesh... like I said I'm terrible.

Fiona has a wicked diaper rash right now. The worst one she's ever had. I made the mistake of washing diapers in Tide detergent and she's all blistered and bleading and in terrible shape. I feel so bad. It's been days and it just isn't healing very fast. I've washed all the diapers over and over again in hot water with nothing else and am going back to my other detergent. While we are home I've got her naked. Any other ideas? I have zinc oxide cream and a WAHM diaper cream that has coconut oil, etc. I have been smearing one or the other on at each diaper change too. My poor baby!


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## Nillarilla

Sue try a baking soda bath and then the diaper rash cream with the coconut oil in it and a couple drops of lavender EO. Do you have any rockin green you can do a soak in?

Thanks for the link to the bread.

Cindy no I don't think you were out of line. Changing peed in clothing sucks big time. Maybe the little girl does need the panties to learn but it should start at home. Both my kids would pee in dipes but not in underwear.

Ever sounds like Royce is well on his way to diaper free. Yay for organization and life moving forward.

Kate where did your husband's question come from?


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## Thursday Girl

the old board

Kate-that is a crazy question to just pull out of thin air.

Cindy, totally not out of line on your part.

Sue- lots of diaper free time and sunshine on the butt, even through a window, My favorite diaper cream is Dr.Smiths, that stuff is amazing. You see a significant change in the rash after 1 daiper change.

Everr- moving is exciting, downsizing is a dream. I want to move just so I can get DH to agree to get rid of stuff!!

Hubs ex-company wants to work things out (now that we have had to get a lawyer involved). I'll share more when everything is settled.

I have my (second) first doula client due in 2 weeks and BH contractions and such starting. Will change my ringtone so I don't miss this birth too.

Junes is pretty much entirely potty trained, she hasn't even been peeing at night, although I guess she did poop in her pants the other day. Her nursing has taken on a new intensity and demand...and it just hit me now that it probably has to do with the potty training.

I am super excited because our tax return is going to be substantial and we will finally get to fix up the back room. (god crossing my fingers that this isn't somehow taken away from me). The back room has no walls, half the ceiling is torn out and it's just the roof and beams, some of which is rotted out and leaking very badly, the floor below that is rotting away, the door doesn't open well. I really think it's just not safe in any way, shape or form. it's been this way since I was pregnant with Juniper, well half of it has been half torn out, then when she was a newborn the rest got torn out. PLUS without that third room and 3 kids the house is too small (especially with our aforementioned clutter problem). I am praying that we finally get to fix it up and make it into a real room!!! It helps that Hubs is a plumber, extremely handy and some of our closest friends are contractors, stone masons, roofers, etc.


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## justKate

So we had a talk last night, and apparently Huz thinks i'm being "distant" and he was trying to get my attention and figure out why I'm so distracted. I wanted to explain that all of the energy I have alotted to him right now is going towards making dinner each night, planning a move across country, and cleaning up after his lazy a$s, but I didn't.

I did try to explain the stress angle, but it seems like I just get this way periodically. Maybe it's not even me. There is a lot going on right now, with trying to rent the house, planning the move, the in-laws coming to visit, Aubs learning to potty, me leaving my job soon, Huz getting a new job... ugh. We're supposed to have lunch today and I'm going to apologize for being short with him, but geez. We joke about a lot of stuff, but IMO cheating and divorce are topics you just don't use to get someone's attention.

Courtney, that will be a great feeling to get the room fixed up. You are lucky your DH has useful skills. Our neighbor does hardwood floors, and he's always got friends working on his place--electricians, landscapers. Makes me jealous!

Sue, I've been hoarding clothes, too. I went through them a week or two ago, and I've still got two 66-quart bins of NB through 18 mo. size clothes. Then I've got two more bins of other linens, "equipment" and toys. Shame on me. At least it's orderly, I guess. We have a consignment shop called Kid to Kid that will buy clothing and toys. They're pretty picky, but I do take some things there now and then. I'd second the baking soda bath for Fiona. Poor baby. It happens, though.

Well it is officially summer here. Seems like it's been in the upper 80's, low 90's all week. I just got 2 swim diapers (for the price of 1) off ebay so we should be swimming soon! For those that have done swimming lessons, do you think the LOs get anything out of it at this age?


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## Thursday Girl

wow, your distracted while a million things are going on and that's his conclusion? frustrating.


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## AKislandgirl

Kate: Hope things cool down. Pretty crazy attention grabbing scheme.

Courtney: How awesome to get that room done! Extra space will be loved by all of you I'm sure.

We've been doing the baking soda baths most nights. I really think the key is diaper free time. I thought as a bonus she might actually use the potty a bit but instead she freaks out that she has to go and doesn't have a diaper on. I put it on and she pees within a minute. At least she knows its coming I guess. The weird thing is that sometimes I can convince her to sit on it and she'll sit for about 5 minutes. The diaper goes on right after and she pees. But this morning her rash finally seems to be improving a bit. We'll be home most of the day and I hope to have her diaper free for the most part (once she has her morning poop, ha ha!)

Nursing is beginning to get uncomfortable. DH is gently encouraging me to wean her before the baby comes. I just don't know. I feel really torn. Part of me agrees and thinks just having a newborn to nurse (who lays still and doesn't stick her feet in my face!) would be lovely! The other part of me just feels really bad for taking it away from her before she's ready to wean on her own. DH thinks she'll never wean on her own and will take some major effort like night weaning did. Night weaning was hard but very worth it. Maybe I'll feel the same way about weaning all the way. I'd love to hear from any tandem nursing Mama's on how they felt/feel and those of you that have weaned... do you ever regret it or feel you did it too soon? Right now she nurses about 5-6 times a day and only at home. The hardest to give up will be nursing to sleep at night and for naps as well as that first morning session. I may just work towards eliminating all other times for now.


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## Everrgreen

AK - Ouch, poor Fiona! The best cure for R has always been naked bum time. As for nursing, I think cutting back might be a good compromise. R does pretty well with accepting that num nums is for naptime and bedtime only. Maybe once in a while I let him nurse other times if it's been a really bad day or he hurts himself.

Kate - That really sucks that your dh said that. I would definitely be hurt and offended (and annoyed considering the timing with everything else going on!) Hopefully you can get things smoothed out quickly and move on.

And I'm totally jealous of your summer weather. We don't even have spring weather yet!! The snow is gone but the temps are still way too cold and we've had so many overcast/rainy days.

I have actually kept a bunch of R's things. I got rid of a lot but I still have 3 rubbermaid containers full (special clothes, my nursing pillow, blankets, other sentimental items). I don't really know why as I'm not sure I'll even have another baby. And if I do it will be years down the road so why bother keeping all this stuff. But I'm not ready to part with it. I thought I would keep it for my friend who just got married as they thought the would start trying this summer/fall. But they've been spending a lot of time with R and he has successfully convinced them to wait a few more years... Thanks R! No cousins for you! lol!

Thursday - Yay for a good tax return!

And good luck with your new doula client!! Definitely get a good alarm clock ;o)

We are at my moms today to spend the weekend. It's so awesome having other adults around  And Saturday we go to see my dad and also my ex's family. So a busy weekend! But it will be fun


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... SO not out of line! What a ridiculous expectation and assumption!

*justKate* ... I hope things are settling back to normal with you and your DP. How unsettling. Did you also mention that it takes incredible effort to knit an entirely new human being from the zygote up? Nevermind all the other goodies that you have on your plate right now.

Oh, and on swimming, I do think the lessons have helped. E loves the pool, is happy jump off the side, go down the slide and 'swim' away from me (EEK!) and get her face and head wet.

*Sue* ... Poor Fiona! I hope her bits are feeling better today? I'm torn with weaning E too. I don't want to do it before she's ready, but I know that I won't have enough when the baby comes for both of them, because I had to supplement with E and still only really produce out of the left breast. I do tell her that when the baby comes the baby will need to nurse first. She gets it. She also says that she's going to go on the potty when the baby comes.

*Mal* ... So exiting that you'll be attending a birth! Awesome!

*Ever* ... Good for you for purging! I don't have a thing from E's early days, other than a few heirloom items made by family, oh, and my ring sling and supplemental nursing system. I sure wish we had saved some things!


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## Mal85

Courtney, I'm so jealous! I attend my training in July and I'm getting so excited to go. My good friend is planning on trying for a baby this summer, so if all goes well she will likely be my first client!

Kate, I would be so angry with my husband. That's a really immature way to get your attention. If he wants some attention from you, why not offer to take you out for an evening, no kiddo allowed. It sounds like he wants some one-on-one time with you, so why not just make that happen instead of throwing something like that at you?!

I so need to purge a ton of things. Maybe I'll get the motivation when the nesting instinct kicks in! We have saved everything from Owyn. I'm waiting until we find out the sex of this one before I start going through her things. If it's a boy, then I'll likely just keep the clothes I loved the most on her, her Christening gown, and a few blankets that were made for her. If it's a girl, I'm still going to go through and toss the things that are stained or things I don't think I'd use again. Our basement is literally filled to the brink with baby things. With the daycare in my house, I keep the infant things around in case I get babies. I also keep a room stocked with toys so I can switch things out every so often so the kids don't get bored. If I get a job out of the house, then I'll definitely be purging a lot of that. My neglect-o-matics really only came in handy when the daycare kids were here anyway. As long as I have one place that I can put the baby down, be it an exersaucer or jumperoo or anything, I'll be happy. No need to have multiple neglect-o-matics when I only have my baby here.

My interview is tomorrow and I'm really excited about it. It's probably just first trimester crud, but I find myself looking around sometimes thinking "Where did all these kids come from and why are they always demanding something from me?" Yesterday, I darn near cried as I went to the bathroom and thought I don't remember the last time I peed during the day without an audience of at least 3 kids. A desk job is sounding more and more appealing. I'm still hoping to hear from the preschool though. The part time hours would be fantastic. They are still running an ad in the paper, so I assume they haven't started interviews yet.

The last week and a half I have physically felt so much better. I can enjoy eating again! And I don't have to eat every hour anymore to keep from feeling nauseous. And I don't feel nauseous every time I get hungry. I was so worried I wouldn't be able to enjoy Easter dinner this weekend. I love the food on holidays! I'm so glad I'll get to eat to my heart's content!


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## starling&diesel

Sorry *Mal*, got my mamas confused! *Courtney*, that's awesome about your first doula birth!


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: I would be so annoyed! Those men, sure don't know how to communicate sometimes! I hope your lunch goes well and you guys can clear the air. You definitely have a LOT on your plate right now that would make you distracted!

Sue: I weaned Makenna at 20.5 months. I felt I had to do it to get pregnant. I don't really regret it. She has been fine. And she was a super boobahollic, addict, etc. She took it well and it's been nice to have my body back. That said, my sister in is still tandeming her 1 yr old and 3 yr old. She got her 3 yr old (2 at the birth) down to 2x/day before baby came and has let her continue with that ever since. I think she nurses when she wakes up from nap and in the morning. But my SIL does limit the time she nurses, for her own sanity. I know my SIL has wished her older one would be done for quite some time now. But I haven't talked to her about what her plans are lately. Some kids just don't wean on their own in any short period of time. My MIL nursed her youngest son until her was 4.5 and she still had to end up weaning him - he wasn't about to stop on his own.

Starling: I put a lot of thought into the tandem and low supply thing. My conclusion was that I would have let M keep nursing but she would only be able to nurse maybe 1x/day (or maybe more) and only after baby is done. It would be like a pump and maybe increase your supply. Of course, E won't really be getting much milk but it obvisouly isn't about the milk for her anymore.


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## mckittre

Tandem nursing: I'm probably the only one here doing it right now, so I'd better answer. During pregnancy, I often limited Katmai by counting to a certain # of seconds while he nursed (because it was uncomfortable). He got used to it quickly, and in fact I still do it that way (except right when I was really hoping to go into labor, I let him nurse forever!). Right after Lituya was born, he was super into the idea of nursing again (probably because there was milk) and asked to "nurse with Lituya" nearly every time she did. It was actually a little helpful with engorgement, and I'd let them nurse on opposite sides, but then keep her nursing for much longer than Katmai. Soon, the novelty wore off, and now he mostly asks first thing in the morning and at bedtime, and occasionally one other time during the day - rarely for more than a minute at a time. Really, at this level, it's much easier to just keep going than to bother to work to wean him.


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## Everrgreen

So not impressed right now!! I'm at my moms and my aunt lives with her. My cousin (aunt's son) called this morning to say that his son is very sick (stomach bug) and could aunt take them to the hospital. So aunt left and for some unknown reason they all stopped in here!!! I guess he got sick on himself in the car so they stopped here to clean him up, but was that really necessary??? The hospital is like 2 minutes away, could they not have cleaned him up there??? So that's great, thanks for coming into the house where my 2 year old is to clean up vomit and expose R to a bad stomach bug. WTF?!?!? I am going to be so incredibly pi$$ed if R gets sick.


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## Everrgreen

Grrr! Now my cousin and his sick son are coming over for dinner!!! WTF?? They took him to the ER this morning, where they were told it was a stomach flu. So they took him home for a nap. And now they have just called and said he seems better just a little cranky. And they are bringing him over here for dinner. I have expressed my anger to my mom and she said there's nothing she can do, it's 'aunts' son and it's up to her to uninvite him. Aunt was standing right there and just said 'oh well he's excited to come over for dinner'. OMG!!! I have told my mom that if R gets sick she's watching him and I'm leaving. I'm so annoyed right now!


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## AKislandgirl

Everrgreen: That is crazy! Coming over to infect the whole house and a toddler with a stomach flu that was bad enough that they needed to go to the ER? That is insane. What time are they coming over? Can you take R out to dinner so you miss them and the kids at least don't interact? I know he'll still leave germs around the house but I sure wouldn't want them playing together. Sheesh!


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## Everrgreen

Well they came and had dinner. And R and the sickie played together. My cousin even encouraged them to hug after a fight.. which with R, led to a kiss (I walked in a second too late for that and yelled 'NOOO!!'). Then the sickie threw up into his bowl during dinner. Great! My cousin insisted he wasn't contagious any more because he has been sick since Monday and because he now is playing and wanting to eat. I am going to be so freakin' annoyed if R gets sick. Seriously!!!! This is ridiculous!!


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## Vegan Princess

OMG Everr! I would be livid! I hope Royce manages to stay healthy. I too think I would have taken him out. I can't believe they brought him over still puking. Ick.

Well I am trying the no diapers at home thing. Makenna peed in the potty last night, after holding it for 4 hours. Today she peed on a chair and then later started to pee on the floor but finished in the potty. Then I saw a funny look on her face and got her to the potty in time to poop. At dinner time she peed on the kitchen floor, peed in her high chair, peed in her highchair again right after I cleaned it, peed on my lap and then had a gigantic pee all over the dining room floor. All within 10 minutes. With like 5 times of sitting on the potty interspersed. She cried when she had her big pee. So it had an impact. I think we'll just stick with it and see what happens. I'm not enjoying this though!

We're getting our baby chicks tomorrow! We're getting 4 babies that hatched on Wednesday. I'm so excited! I can't wait to take a picture of them all in an easter basket.  Of course that is NOT why we are getting them. Just coincidental timing. I'm sure all of Makenna's friends will be coming over to visit them. Anyone with chickens have any advice? I'm a bit freaked out since this is all new to me.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

yeah for your new babies coming home! What breed did you get (asks the chicken nerd!)? Add some sugar to their water when hey first arrived and get settled in their new space. Also keep an eye out for pasty butt. If poop gets stuck on their butt they can't go and they will die. You may have to wash it under a low trickle of warmish water. If they are all clumped together in a tight ball... not warm enough. If they are scurrying to the edge of the box then they are too hot. You might have to adjust the height of the heat lamp to get it right. Have fun! Let them feed out of your hands and handle them a lot as they grow and they will be great with kids!









In other farm news... DH just headed over to our friends house to help build a pig pen. We are going in on pigs with 4 couples. We will each get half of a pig when we butcher them. They will be housed at the friends house and we will all pitch in on feed. So stoked!  MMM bacon!

Fiona skipped her nap yesterday which meant early bedtime and falling asleep almost instantly. I got to chat on the phone with my girlfriend in Seattle for over half an hour (No interuptions!!) and watch a movie from start to finish in one setting with DH. Amazing!


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## Vegan Princess

Well she ran out of one of the chicks DH had his heart set on. So we brought home 3 today and have to go back next week for the 4th that will be hatching on Tuesday. So far we have a dominique, a blue cochin, a white cochin and the 4th will be a buff orpington. They names are ginger, maryann, mrs. mcgillicutty and buttercup. We just got them home and they are crashed out from all the chirping they did on the way here. Their butts are already kinda gross. DH worked on it a little but didn't want to do too much to them right away so I think we need to clean them a bit more later today.

Sue: That sounds so nice! I'm so torn. I don't want to give up nap time but lately M won't fall asleep until 9:30 or even later and that means I don't get to spend any time w/DH any more. I miss him! It also means she is sleeping later - which is nice but it is throwing off our schedule. Basically what it has meant is I don't have time to clean the house in the mornings now and I never want to do it later. I think we need to figure out how to get M to go to sleep without us somehow. No idea how though. We've been fighting this battle her whole life. But at least before she would go to sleep earlier or easier.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

we just got some new friends. The bunny isn't ours, but our friends. From left to right, Splasher, Quacker, Butter, and Blues Clues.(Junes is totally obsessed with Blues Clues, the show and her chicken). We actually got them free from a local bakery. Soon we will be slaughtering two of our chickens, one of the older hens and the mean, mean rooster. I want to make rooster and dumplings with Beck.



How was everyone's Easter? Ours was pretty good, we are really broke right now (with Hubs starting up his own business again, and **** waiting for resolution with the pay thing not being resolved yet) and the baskets weren't near as full as they have been in the past. My oldest's face dropped when she first saw it but then she compsed herself and expressed gratidtude all within seconds. It broke my heart. Then Jo, my middlest, saw what she got and said "I don't like that, I don't want it. Someone else can have it." she wasn't sad that she then had nothing but it made me a bit sad. After that all 3 girls started painintg with Juniper's new paints and they were happy. We had breakfast with my mom (who I don't get along great with, being yelled at was "awesome") and sister, then we had a birthday party/easter party. It was much smaller than usual since the guys were all at a bachelor party all night, but still quite enjoyable.


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## Thursday Girl

Sue can you tell what the chicks are? Being free we didn't find out, although they did tell us the ducks are peking.


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## mckittre

Everr - I hope he doesn't get sick. What a thoughtless thing to do.

Katmai's kind of giving up naps here too, since we've not been bothering to walk him down lately. I wish it made him fall asleep more quickly at night, or sleep later in the morning! My husband's trying to get him to sleep right now (no nap) and he's fallen asleep, while Katmai is reciting the stories of all his favorite books at high volume.

The chicks are cute. My friends are getting some this weekend. I'm holding out myself until I see someone who keeps them around for a few years without too much trouble with bears, etc...

Easter was fun here. Katmai woke up and immediately ran all over the yurt, super excited to find the easter eggs we'd hidden last night. He really liked dyeing them yesterday as well, and helping me peel them for deviled eggs this afternoon. The chocolate bunny was also a hit.

Spring is finally coming here - I'm excited to see the patches of dirt show up around the snow!


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## Everrgreen

We had a good Easter weekend. Dinner at my moms Friday night, then Saturday and Sunday I went to a different city where my dad lives and also my ex's family. None of them had seen R since Christmas so they were all excited to see him. It was a bit stressful with my ex's family, just because my ex doesn't really talk to them much anymore and he's so messed up, but no one even mentions him at all. He is the giant mega-sized elephant in the room. And it's kind of sad too just because despite everything my ex has done I still feel sorry for where he is in life now and the fact that he doesn't see his family. R had an awesome time with all the attention though and got to play with his cousins. We are back at my moms now but will head home tomorrow.

And so far R is still healthy, I'm keeping my fingers crossed!


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## Mal85

We had a pretty good Easter too. We went to the city's Easter egg hunt Saturday morning, then dinner at my IL's that evening. After dinner, we went to my sister's to dye Easter eggs, which Owyn loved! Yesterday, she was very excited about her basket. She climbed up to the table where it was, saw the candy in it and her eyes lit up like it was Christmas and she said "Oooooooo candy!" We had church yesterday morning, then spent the day at my parents' house where we had a big dinner and huge Easter egg hunt for the kids. I managed to get some ham and other fixings into at lunch, other than that I'm pretty sure her day consisted of candy and desserts alone.







She skipped her nap with all the excitement and when I tried to feed her an actual dinner at home, she fell asleep. Poor kid had a sugar crash and woke up this morning asking for candy! Needless to say, the basket has been put away with one piece of candy being doled out at appropriate times (with a little help from DH and I to finish it off!).

I had my interview Friday and it was just okay. I knew it was a desk job, but was still a little taken back to see all the cubicles! And the building was partially underground, so there wasn't even any natural light in the office. I really don't know if I could physically deal with that kind of environment 9 hours a day... And I didn't really feel like I made a great impression on them. Every question they asked was about previous work experience, which made me feel pretty inadequate. I've been doing my home daycare since I graduated college and before that it was all meaningless part-time jobs along the way. I really didn't have much to draw on as far as work experience. I tried to talk myself up, but I don't know... I'm still holding out hope for the two other options I have out there and hoping I hear some good news.


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks for the nursing/weaning info Mamas. Right now we are working to limit nursing to certain times of the day. I"m also keeping the sessions short. We'll see how it goes.

We had a lovely Easter here too. Fiona loved her basket... garden gloves, kaleidoscope, and colored chalk as well as about a dozen jelly beans. We did a potluck at the beach (Luckily we had a beach house to be in for most of the day) and the kids did an egg hunt in the woods and on the beach. She loved it!

Did I already mention DH is heading out of town? He left this morning for a 5 day training in Seattle. He'll be home for a couple of weeks and then head out for a 3.5 week trip out to sea. Those are the hard trips because we only have email and no phone calls. I'm just hoping the time goes fast!

I'm 16 weeks today and had a prenatal appt. It went well. Baby's heart rate is 148. I have my ultra sound scheduled for May 10th! We wanted to get it in before DH heads out of town. I hope baby cooperates and we can find out the sex! I'm so anxious to know!! I'll be 18 weeks then... a little earlier then we did this with Fiona.

*Mal*, sorry you aren't feeling great about the job. I hope the right thing turns up for you.

*Courtney*, how random to get chicks from a bakery! I want ducks so badly but we decided we need more space. I hear they can be pretty messy and we deal with enough mud in the chicken yard as it is with all of our rain. If that black one has a gray chest it may be a black austrolorp. Chicks are hard to ID! maybe post the pics on Bachyard Chicken.com.


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## Everrgreen

Royce just called 911... Oops! I hung up as quickly as possible but I guess I was too late because they called back to make sure everything was ok. And I was told to please keep the phone away from him :/ I feel like an idiot! He was sitting on my lap when he did it. He actually dialed '000' which I didn't realize was the same as 911?? Now I know!

ETA - So I just googled about dialing '000' and it says that is the emergency number in Australia.. I can't find anything about it being an emergency number in Canada. Weird.. Anyone know??


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## justKate

That is weird. I have no idea.

I tried to post yesterday but it wasn't working for me for some reason--smart me, I copied it into a Word document before completely losing the post like I normally do. Kate 1, Computer 0.

Here goes:

Happy Belated Easter to everyone who celebrates!

I'm sort of embarassed by how little we (i) did this year. We got up and I made a big breakfast, then we hung around the house and Aubs took an early nap because she was up late Saturday for no reason. While she napped I put together a little easter basket with some things I got from the $1 bins at Target: a little shovel and hand rake, elmo socks, sesame street stamps, and two Peeps chicks. We hid plastic eggs inside the house. She came down and explored her basket and found the eggs, and that was basically it. We were planning on an egg hunt with the neighbors, but it didn't work out, and the grass in our backyard is too tall to do a hunt outside... I didn't cook, we went out to eat instead. Shame on me! I'm sort of thinking of it as my last chance to be lazy--next year I'll live near my mom and be obligated to put forth more of an effort. All of the candy came to work with me today except for a few bits of chocolate. My coworkers have done me a favor and devoured all of it, so I don't have to be tempted by it anymore.

Mal, the work environment doesn't sound great. Hopefully something will happen with one of the other positions and the decision will be made for you. Aubs had a major sugar crash or two yesterday too. She's so not used to it, so I'm sure it felt pretty crappy. Oh well, Easter only comes once a year.

Everr, intentionally bringing sick kids around healthy ones is messed up. You would think that other parents would have enough sense to know that, even if it is family. I think its awesome that you're keeping a relationship with the ex's family. In a way it's sad for them too. Has anyone ever figured out what happened to him? Mental health issues or anything? Not that any of it would excuse his conduct, its just scary to think that a seemingly normal person could change so much. R is very lucky to have you.

Erin, that's funny. Aubs sings "the wheels on the bus" and the ABC song at the top of her lungs when she's fighting sleep. Sometimes i wonder what goes on in their little heads! Are you planting anything for the spring? I'm disappointed that I won't get a garden this year. I really enjoyed it last year, even though I wasn't very successful. I put a succulent ground cover in my beds, and some perennials in the front for color. That's it! I might put some peppers or herbs in pots when we get to the new house.

Courtney, I'm sorry about the girls' reactions. I know it must be hard, because my emotions are so tied into Aubs' little emotions, it's painful. I think it will only get worse as her ability to express more complicated emotions grows. Don't let it get you down. They won't remember it the way you will. I know it's corny, but the biggest gifts you give them are your time with them and the experiences you'll share--DUCKS! I think having my mom home with me creating those experiences would have been a huge thing for me as a child.

Cindy, yay for your chicks! I'm jealous. My dad (in Maryland) just finished his chicken house, and is getting his chick babies on the 30th. He built the house big enough to house a goat if the chicken thing doesn't work out....he thinks Aubs might like a goat to play with. I'm not going to argue, as long as it doesn't have to live at my house. He told me what he's getting, but I can't quite remember--two Rhode Island Reds, a black speckled kind, and a fluffy yellow kind?

Sue, yay for the pig! Last year we got a couple of hogs and they lasted forever. We had the butcher do a bunch of different cuts, but I think if I had to do it over again I would just get roasts and grind the rest. Hopefully when we get re-settled in VA Huz will get us another. Will your friends do the butchering or will you take it somewhere?

Gosh I forgot the big news of the day. Aubs went to school in big girl panties today. The teacher said she's ready, so I'm trying not to stand in the way... I'm really anxious to get off work and see how she did. My best guess is that she will be dry until they go outside and play in the afternoon (around this time). It's hot, so they drink a lot of water, and it's just so much fun outside... we'll see. Fingers crossed that this is the start of something!


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## justKate

I meant to add that yesterday she was COMPLETELY dry at school all day. OMG. Of course today she'll probably poop on herself three times, but I was so excited yesterday when I picked her up!


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## AKislandgirl

Yeah Aubs! I'm so proud of her! She is doing great. I can't wait till we post about a dry day in panties... maybe in another 6 months or so!

As far a butchering goes... it will be a group effort by all of us pig owners. The guys area ll used to butchering deer though none of them have done pigs. I'm sure it will be fine. Last year we got half a pig from my nephew who raised it for 4-H. We shipped it up on the frozen barge. It's nice to have a local option this year. I'm so grateful my friend is willing to use his land for this project! They will be ready in October so we just need to make sure that butchering day doesn't land on labor day and we'll be good to go. Otherwise they will be butchering without our help!!

So cool that your Dad is thinking about goats Kate! Someday I'll get my goats! Can't wait!

Fiona woke up screaming in the night twice last night. I think maybe bad dreams? I don't really know. It took some time to calm her down. I do know her imagination is growing big time so it would make sense that she would have dreams at night too.

Cute quote... She didn't want to wear her gloves when we went out to play the other day. "I'm just gonna wear my fingers Mama."

We also have several books where the child gets tucked into bed at night by themselves. This totally stresses her out! "Why Mama not go to bed with her?" I usually calm her down by saying the mama has to brush her teeth or go potty then she'll crawl in with the kid!


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## Everrgreen

Royce is sick. So much for my cousins's son being "not contagious". Oh I am sooooo mad right now!!!!


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## Everrgreen

I just posted to fb "Royce is sick with a stomach bug... Just a friendly reminder to other parents: If your child is still vomiting, they are still contagious"

I hope my cousin sees that. A$$hole

ETA: This is one of the times being a single parent really sucks. I had planned on going to get groceries this morning (and a few other errands, but those aren't as urgent). Now I'm stuck home with a sick toddler and no groceries in the house. Do I take him out to the grocery store?? Or just scrap together whatever I can find in the pantry, I think there's rice.. But I have nothing but tap water to drink. Mmmm plain rice and tap water.. Yummy! I do have toast too, but that's what R had for breakfast and then threw up all over me, so I don't really have an appetite for that..


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## Mal85

Poor Royce, I hope his doesn't turn out as bad as his cousins. I wouldn't take him to the grocery store. I know it sucks to be stuck at home with a sick kid and no food in the house. Last time Owyn had a stomach bug was the day I was going to go grocery shopping too! I made do with the little bit of food we had in the house and got take out for dinner. Are there any delivery places nearby?


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## justKate

Oh poor Royce. It would be nice if your mom could mention it to your aunt, but I guess that would just be stirring the pot. What a stupid thing for your cousin to have done. Ugh. I would stay in if you can.


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## Everrgreen

Yeah I won't actually go to the grocery store. Although I think R's illness may be short lived. He has been acting normal all morning, he nursed and kept it down, and he is now eating some oatmeal. Fingers crossed that he keeps it down.

I did call my mom this morning to inform her. I was mad. Her response was simply "oh well, there's nothing we can do about it now". If this situation ever comes up again I will definitely be more vocal. I will stand at the door and tell my cousin to his face to stay away.


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## Vegan Princess

Oh no! So sorry Everr. Poor R got the short end of the stick! I hope it was quick lived and on it's way out. Do you have any friends that can drop by a few things? M had a fever of 100.3 and has a cough so we are skipping playgroup today. But I will probably take her to the grocery store. But either in the stroller or using a cart cover so we don't contaminate others. But I wouldn't want to go risk having R puke while we were there - or in the car.

Courtney: I'm sorry your girls reactions weren't as you'd hoped. Your ducks are super cute! I have no idea about the breeds. It's crazy how fast these things grow. My 1 week old chicks already have feathers on their wings! Our 4th hatched yesterday and we should get her this weekend.

I had an ultrasound on Monday. I am a few days behind the due date I calculated based on ovulation but based on LMP, the due date and ultrasound matched exactly. And I got to see a heartbeat!!  I still don't really feel pregnant. Really tired yesterday and starting to feel pretty fat by the end of most days, but that's about it. No morning sickness yet. Maybe I won't get any! I barely had it with M.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Oh man, Owyn has been on a roll this week. I'm really starting to get why this is called the terrible twos. Although, I've worked with a lot of 3 year olds and am not expecting it to get much better anytime soon! She did let me get a feel in her mouth today and one of her 2 year molars is starting to come through, I'm hoping I can blame most of her behavior this week on that. The other one on the bottom feels pretty swollen so I expect it to start coming through in the next few days. I can't feel the top ones coming in at all, so we may have a while to wait for those.

Yay for seeing a heartbeat, Cindy! It makes it feel so real. I'm really missing seeing this baby. I had ultrasounds with Owyn every two weeks, but it's not necessary this time. I know that means everything is going well, but I still miss seeing the baby. My belly had a big growth spurt a couple of weeks ago and hasn't really changed since. Now that the morning sickness is pretty much gone (YAY!!), I have a hard time remembering there's a little person inside there. Second trimester starts next week, so I'm expecting a big growth spurt to come soon. I'm actually really excited to get a baby belly! I was skinnier when I got pregnant with Owyn, so at this time in the pregnancy, I was already showing quite a bit. Now, I just look like I've put on some weight!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Sorry about the tough times. Those teeth will do it! I'm happy to say that I think Makenna has all her teeth now! My OB's office did schedule me to come back in 3 weeks to do another ultrasound - I think just to keep the moms happy when they can't feel movement yet? No idea. I do think I may keep the appointment but not do the ultrasound. We don't believe in doing too many if they aren't necessary. After that appointment I'll be switching to my midwife anyway. I just need to stick with the OB long enough to get me prometrium refilled. I'd debated not doing this first ultrasound, since I only had 1 at 16 weeks w/M, but I'd been so nervous about everything this time, I decided I needed to for peace of mind.

My friend and I are trying to start up a co-op preschool for fall. 6-10 kids, 1 hired teacher and the rest done by moms. Either rotating houses or at a place that hosts playgroups that my friend goes to. Should be interesting. Should work out to 8 hours per week for $50/week. Less if we do it at our homes.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Mal: Sorry about your tough week.

We've had a touch of that here too. I've been so impatient today with the screeching its not even funny. Fiona is having a really hard time with sharing and she either snatches things out of our day care girls hands and yells "That's mine" or screeches at the top of her lungs. I'm worn out from all the intervening I've had to do this week. We won't have her here the rest of the week though so things will be better in that department.

If any other child takes something from Fiona while we are out and about or even at home she does nothing. But she is so comfortable with S they act and fight like siblings! I had both girls at a playgroup once and the moms were shocked at Fiona's reaction to S taking a toy from her. They all see her as this quiet girl. Ha! Her true colors started to show!

I did one ultra sound at 8 weeks and we have another scheduled in 2 weeks (18 weeks). I'll be happy with just those two. Actually they did do one at my first appt with a lower grade machine and we couldn't see much. I had a few more done with Fiona because of various things. I do love seeing the baby on the screen but I agree to not wanting to do too much. I was so reassured to see that heart beating on the first especially since it was too early for the doppler.


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## Mal85

Sue, your house sounds a lot like mine! We have all those same issues and are what's driving me crazy this week. My part time girl, who is a few months older, has been coming more often so she has started to show her defensive side a little bit as well. Just throwing one more 2 year old into the mix really changes things up. It doesn't help that this little girl is only at home with her mom and no one else when she's not here. So, when she's here, she gets all her socializing and wants to socialize all day long. Whereas Owyn and L have their own system of time that they play together and have learned to give each other space when they need it. My part time girl hasn't had enough exposure to them to have learned the ropes and has a hard time giving the girls their space. Mix that with the fact that Owyn is a pretty dominating (dare I say, bossy) presence with the same "MINE!" issues and those days are just plain no fun. She also has that lovely screech that is like nails down a chalk board!

I also know that most of this only bothers me more because I'm pregnant. I worked with school age kids when I was pregnant with Owyn. Kids that I normally adored and they all drove me crazy through my whole pregnancy. I try to keep that in mind when my temper is short. It doesn't always help, but I still try.


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## Everrgreen

Royce was fine the rest of the day yesterday. Around supper time he said he was going to be sick again and asked for a towel (to throw up into), we sat there for a while and he was kind of crying and coughing a little, but he never threw up. And then he ate more pizza and was fine. I felt off all day yesterday and my stomach was making noises last night, but I feel better this morning. Very weird, but hopefully we're in the clear now!

Tonight R and I are sleeping over at my friends bc we are all getting up early to watch the wedding  One other friend is going to join us in the morning and we're going to have a breakfast party and watch. I'm excited about it!!! I find it funny that there seems to be so much 'who cares about it' around but I'm so excited lol!

Mal and AK - I don't know how you guys do it!! I understand the lack of patience though, I am so there was R most of the time. I have good days and bad days. Or good moments and bad moments 

I have to rehome my cats for my move in September. My one cat went to his new home last night. I hope he likes it there. He's an older cat and it was a very nice elderly couple that adopted him. They said I can call and check on him anytime and come visit too  Now I just need to find a home for my other one.


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: Glad you are both doing better! I wish I were in a later time zone so I could watch the wedding. The procession starts at 2:30 am here. I am pondering getting up but knowing I'll have to be up early w/M makes it a lot less appealing. I know there will be relplays but I doubt they will replay the whole thing. I remember watching the Diana wedding with my mom when I was little. My mom is very whatever about this wedding too. I am just fascinated by all the opulence. I'm sorry about your cats. It would break my heart to get rid of my cats!!!! They are my first born babies.

M is still sick so we are lounging again today. I'm rather enjoying not running around.

Cindy


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## justKate

Hope all of the sickness is gone soon!

I think it's so neat to watch them assert their little personalities, but I can see where it could also be really irritating if you are the only adult around. Aubs goes to the Little Gym once a week, and i am so entertained by her interactions with the other kids. Speaking of interactions, Aubs is now referring to me as "baby." As in, "here, baby" as she hands me a toy. "co'mere, baby" when she wants my help.







Monkey see, monkey do.

So for those that cloth diaper (everyone but me, I think?), what do you use at night? I'm going to try to keep Aubs in underwear during the day, and I want to get her out of a diaper at night because 1) she only pees in it about 50% of the time and 2) it seems more natural for her to be in cloth underwear during the day, and then cloth something at night rather than going back to a sposie. We did BGs when she was tiny, but I didn't like the velcro. I tried to look on diaperswappers but I was too intimidated. Also, what size would she wear? Right now she's 33 inches and almost 26 lbs.

Hmm, royal wedding. Just like any other spectator sport IMO. I'll try to catch the highlights later in the day.


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## AKislandgirl

I didn't even know what wedding you were talking about until I read Cindy's post and figured it out. I'm so out of the loop!

DH gets home tonight if the weather will hold for him to fly in. Can't wait! Crap just as I typed this he called from Seattle. His plane is broken and he won't be flying out for several hours which means he misses his connection in Anchorage. Crossing fingers he can get in late otherwise he'll have to stay overnight in Anchorage and fly home in the morning. Grr... I have to say I have never been able to fly in and out of Kodiak with ease. On one leg or the other something always goes wrong with the plane or we have weather delays. I decided this morning not to talk up DH getting home to Fiona just in case. Looks like my instincts were right. Bummer, she misses him so much.

Kate: I'm pretty sure the new versions of bum genious have a snap option. I've never used them though so I don't know about size or anything. We often use a motherease one size at night. Either with the motherease doubler or a smaller prefold trifolded in it. You would need to have a cover with that too. Another affordable option is the workhorse diaper from Green Mountain Diapers. Also need a cover. She would probably be a large or brown edge in those. If you didn't think she would be in them for long and only needed them for just in case I'd do the workhorse with a cover. Maybe a thirsties duo cover with snaps. HTH!


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## Nillarilla

I got in ladies!!!! I'm terrified! It's a 3 year program! Yikes!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Oh no! I hope the rest of your DH's trip goes smoothly!

Kate: I use bumgenius one-size in snaps. I love them. We usually don't use them at night. I use fuzzibunz one size at night and also stuff a hemp doubler in the pocket. But I forgot to change M out of a bumgenius into her normal nighttime diaper the other night (I bathed her early and normally we don't change diapers after bath)....the bumgenius did fine, no doubler, despite being on a little longer than her nighttime diapers usually are. I know there are a number of cloth trainers out there but I'm not educated on them.

I so didn't get up to watch the wedding. Haven't even turned the tv on today. DH and I are going on a date tonight. First one in ages and ages and ages! My friend is watching M. My mom will be here next week and said we could go out one night so we are saving the nice dinner for next week and going to a movie tonight. So rare to go to a movie anymore, let alone with DH.

Getting our 4th chick tomorrow. 

Cindy


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## Mal85

We use a few different kinds of Bumgenius, Kate. Their new pockets, the 4.0 version have a snap option and I've bought 5 or 6 of those. I think the snaps will make the diapers last through the next kid. The velcro wore out quickly on her others. We also use a bunch of their organic AIOs, which also have snaps. But I really don't think they'll last through another kid. Our old washing machine was apparently very hard on diapers and all the organics have worn out on the inside. They're still usable right now, but there are some major holes on the inside so I just keep waiting on them to start leaking. If you're only going to use them at night though, you may consider them. I'm also a huge fan of Fuzzibunz.


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## starling&diesel

Congratulations, *Nilla*! You'll ace it! Does that mean you're moving out this way?

*Cindy* ... Have a great date!

*Sue* ... I hope that your hubby gets home safe and sound and soon.

*Kate* ... We use fuzzi bunz with a hemp double, just like Cindy. Works like a charm! Esmé is in Larges. She's about 33 pounds or so, as a guess.

*AFM*: DP turned 40 today! We had a party last night, and then today we had a picnic at the zoo, then went to get her new Harley! We're going out on a date tonight too, just the two of us, to a swanky seafood restaurant. We're so exhausted by the festivities of the last 24 hours, we can hardly keep our eyes open. I'm feeling the baby more and more, which is a great reassurance. All's well so far, other than the constant barfing. I've lost weight, but that's not a concern at this point. Our u/s will be at the end of May, so we have to decide if we're going to find out the between-the-leg bits or not. Still not sure!

Our house sold in less than 24 hours, and it's final now with the 'sold' sign up. We move into the co-op at the beginning of June!

Here's a pic of E sitting on the new Hog!


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## AKislandgirl

Love that picture! Woo hoo for date nights. I'm jealous!! DH got home this morning after a night in Anchorage. So glad to have him home. I'm exhausted and have been fighting a headache all day. I think I just hold it all in until he gets home and then once I can let go it hits me how dang tired I am. I didn't get any seeds planted like I had wanted while he was gone. I told him I don't know how I think I can move to a farm if I can't even start some dang nasturtiums! He reminded me I won't always be pregnant with a 2 year old with a husband out of town. So true!

Nilla: So excited for you about school! Fantastic news!


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## Vegan Princess

Nilla: Congrats!! I'm sure you'll do awesome!

Starling: Was DP so surprised? I hope you enjoy your evening out! I'm sorry you are still barfing. Sounds horrid.

Sue: Yay for DH getting home!

Well, Makenna's fever ended up coming back after her nap so we had to cancel our date. Just as well, I'm not feeling all that great. I have her cough and maybe a bit of aches. And maybe a bit of pregnancy blahs too.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Sue, so glad he made it home! Was Fiona so excited to see him?

So, I might be able to find out the sex of the baby soon! My SIL is an ob nurse and says she's working this Saturday. If I come to her hospital while she's working, she offered to do a sono to get a look between the legs. I'll be a day shy of 14 weeks, so early but definitely possible. I can't decide if I'm going to do it or not. I'm sooooo curious and she made the offer! But, it's not a necessary sono so I'm not sure.


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## mckittre

Sue - Glad he made it home! Alaska traveling always does have a certain unpredictability to it (more so in the winter, though)

Starling - Sounds like quite the birthday party. Isn't it great to feel the baby move? I never really felt like I could trust either pregnancy until then.

Nilla - Congratulations! Are you excited?

My windows are absolutely full of seedlings that I probably started too early. But the snow is going fast - I see more and more ground showing up every day. Last year I was shoveling several feet of snow off the garden beds in the middle of May.

Kate - I love seeing Katmai with other little kids as well. Whenever anyone does something he doesn't like he says "That's not a good idea (name)!" Very cute.

I've decided that May is going to be my month to actually forge ahead with this whole potty thing. He's gotten really good with going on the potty at home, and will take himself almost all the time (where we've been keeping him naked on the bottom all the time). But other than a brief unsuccessful foray with underwear, we haven't done anything with pants, or outside the house.


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## AKislandgirl

Yes, the joys of travel in Alaska. I'm sure you know it well McKittre!

I'm so impressed with all the potty learners in the group. I have to just tell myself that she'll be potty trained by kindergarten for sure! Ha! My friend called to tell my that her 18 month is fully potty trained (!) even at night and she recently bought bigger diapers. Did I want them? Heck yeah! One dozen size large workhorse diapers coming my way. Sweet! I'm so glad I have put off buying her the larger diapers she needs this long. But holy cow, both her kids have been potty trained by 18 months!

I've been feeling baby more and more too which I love. Also feeling braxton hicks pretty regularly. Not painful just tightening of my uterus. I never felt them at all with Fiona. My ultra sound is a week from Tuesday. Can't wait! Mal, I can't wait to hear what you decided to do! I can't remeber when the baby kicks got strong enough for DH to feel too. Do you guys remember when that happened for you?


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Can she do the ultrasound later? I'm not sure you can get a definitive answer at 14 weeks. I had my 1 ultrasound at 16 weeks w/M and the lady REALLY didn't want to tell us the sex bc she said at that point girls are swollen and can look like boys. She finally relented bc she felt fairly sure. So since you really can't trust it at this point, it's probably not worth doing an extra one for. Just tough it out until 20 weeks. 

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

AK - the first time my ex felt R's kicks was just after the 20 week ultrasound.

McKittre - I need to forge ahead with pottying too. R uses the potty every time when he's diaper-free but the few times I've tried to put pants on he's had accidents. I need to do more practice with him, but I'll admit I've been lazily enjoying just leaving him naked and letting him potty on his own 

Mal - I agree with Cindy, see if you can come in during one of her shifts next month. That way you can be (more) sure of actually finding out the gender 

Cindy - Sorry you had to cancel your date - hopefully you all feel better and you can reschedule 

Starling - Congrats on the quick house sale!! That's awesome! Now for the fun of packing and moving  I love the pic too! Very nice looking bike!! How old does E have to be to go for a ride? (if it were R my answer would be never lol!) Hope you enjoyed your date night 

Nilla - CONGRATULATIONS! So exciting to get that acceptance, isn't it?? You must be thrilled!

I completely crashed with R during his nap today. I tried to stay awake but my eyes just wouldn't open. Now I have to deal with that groggy post-nap feeling and will probably have a hard time going to sleep tonight. Oh well!


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## justKate

School starting, moves, potty learning, babies growing! I love that about spring--it always seems like a good time for changes.

Nilla, Congratulations!! Will you be moving for your program? Seems like it took forever for them to tell you, but you did it!

Everr, I've been lazy with Aubs too, leaving her naked inside because she runs to the potty every 5 minutes and I don't feel like going with her to pull her panties up and down. Plus we're moving out in three weeks and having the carpets cleaned, so if I miss a pee...well, it's not the end of the world. So far she's been pretty good about telling me when she pees on the floor. And also telling me when she farts, which she considers poop, so I spend 20 mintues crawling around on the carpet looking for poop that doesn't really exist. I can see how this job isn't really for everyone.

Sue, one of the moms at Aubs' daycare potty trained her girls at 18 mos and 20 mos. I have to wonder if it's a personality thing with the kid. I'm finding the whole thing sort of stressful, even though Aubs does great and only has accidents at home--maybe one every other day (not counting while she's sleeping). She would probably still be in diapers if her teacher at daycare didn't take the initiative to get her using the potty. That's awesome that you've got those dipes coming your way! I gave a dozen newborn bum geniuses away to an acquaintance when I gave up on CDing the first time around. Now I wish I had them to share with you all!

Speaking of diapers and panties, I got a bum genius 4.0 w/snaps for $10 at the consignment shop (new). I had store credit to offset the rest. I also ordered one happy heiny trainer to see if either can be stuffed enough to work for night time. Like this: Happy Heiny trainer I'm buying gender neutral stuff this time, just in case! I really don't care about colors one way or the other, but DH is sort of "traditional"--doesn't want his baby girl mistaken for a boy. You know, because it matters.









Erin, one of the things that entertains me about Aubs interacting with other kids is how she avoids conflict. At the little gym the other day a bigger girl came and got on the equipment Aubs was on, and started crying "my turn." Aubs stepped aside and watched her cry, but didn't try to argue or get me or anything. Yet at home she fights us constantly, over anything. Weird.

Mal, 14 weeks is pretty early. I would try to wait, but I know I probably wouldn't be able to.

Starling, yay for date night, and happy belated birthday to DP! I'm really looking forward to dates again when the family is nearby to watch DD occasionally. We went to a Korean BBQ yesterday afternoon, and took Aubs, but it's really not the same when you have to find something to order for her to eat, and make sure she's not throwing rice, etc. I really hope your morning sickness stops soon. That's got to be miserable.

Cindy, how are the chicks doing?


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## Everrgreen

Alright, so I'm going to go out and buy a bunch of cheap easy to pull up shorts/pants and practice with R! You all can hold me to it - if I haven't started practicing with pants by Friday I give you permission to yell at me  May is potty learning month!! I would love to have it done for the summer. NO MORE DIAPERS!


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## Thursday Girl

NIlla, congrats!!!

I don't think I could deal with having extra kids like you daycare moms, I have a hard enough time with my kids, although I do like having the kids friends over. (it will be even more awesome when the back room is fixed and I won't be embaresed to invite people over)

Starling, wow your house sold so fast!! Houses in this neighborhood used to sell that fast, but since the market crashed we have had some that have been for sale for years. Happy birthday to your DP too, sounds like a grand celebration.

nighttime diapers, I used a pocket diaper with a prefold and an insert then cover all that with a fleece cover.

just had my best friends wedding, it was awesome and a lot of work.

as for the him not getting paid thing, his company has agreed to pay him that last paycheck, back pay for the hours they messed with, the gas mileage, and $2500 in damages. He goes to pick up the money tomorrow. thank god too b/c we were so broke it made me want to cry, we couldn't buy groceries or anything, we had the change in the coffee can. I want to contact the company they work with sometimes and let them know the shoddy business practices of this company. I am really going to push Hubs to do that.


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## AKislandgirl

Courtney, I'm so glad that you guys are finally getting the money! What a huge ball of stress. I hope that things start to look up for you. I saw your picture all dressed up on facebook. You looked gorgeous Mama! I hope you had a great time at the wedding!


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## starling&diesel

*Courtney* ... Thank goodness that's over with! I bet you're going to do a huuuuuge grocery shop, aren't you! Enjoy! What a weight off your shoulders. Yay!

*Ever* ... No way in hell is DD ever going to be old enough to go for a ride on the Harley! I wouldn't even 'let' DP get one if she didn't have decent life insurance. I'll never forget the story of that family in QC who went for a ride together, with the 16 yo daughter on the back of her father's motorcycle and the mother on her own motorcycle behind. Someone ahead on the road stopped in a blind spot, in the middle of the road, to let some ducklings cross, and the father hit the parked car head on, killing himself and his daughter while the mother watched. Horrific. I go to way too many motorcycle accidents. No way will E ever be getting on that thing. Hmm, do I sound ambivalent about it?

*justKate* ... We had a great date night! I highly recommend it when you move closer to family. My sister looked after DD while we went out. It's so nice to not have to use sitters.

*Mal* ... I think if it were me I'd try to wait it out another few weeks to get your u/s. What an awesome connection to have though!

*AFU*: I told DP about the bike a few days before her birthday so she could pick one out and actually get it on her birthday. She was elated! We went to the zoo in the morning and then picked up the Harley on the way home. And then capped her birthday off with a beautiful meal at a high-end restaurant , with an ocean-view table and amazing service. They must've taken a shine to to us, because they kept bringing out complimentary goodies throughout our meal, champagne (ginger ale for me), petit fours, an appetizer selection, a cheese plate, and they comped our dessert too. Not sure if it's because it was DP's 40th, or because she's in the industry, or because we looked like a couple of tattooed punks who don't get out much. Any way, it was awesome. We figured it was over a hundred dollars in compliments from the chef!

And I'm feeling the baby more, which is so reassuring! Day three with no barf! Whoo hoo!

*Potty learning* ... E is insistent that she's going to start going on the potty "when the baby comes." We still offer the potty, but I wonder if she's serious. She usually means what she says. Should I not bother trying in earnest then? Thoughts? Opinions?


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## justKate

Courtney, thank goodness that's straightened out. How awful for them to put you all through that.

So last night I put Aubs in the bum genius I got for her to sleep in, with the regular and newborn insert that came with it. She had a MAJOR pee overnight and it held every bit of it! I was a little worried because she is back to sleeping with us full time, and I didn't want to lay in pee with her, but it did just what it was supposed to do. The whole her-sleeping-with-us again thing kind of sucks, because she was doing pretty well for a while in her toddler bed in our room. But since we're moving May 23, it seems stupid to really push her into her own bed when she'll just end up with us again during the move and until she gets used to the new house. Oh well. It will happen eventually.


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: Makenna used to sleep in her crib most of the night. Now she is in our bed most of the night. So we went backward too. DH and I are a bit squished but mostly I dont' mind a whole lot - until I need to break out my pregnancy pillow. Then I'm not sure how we're all going to fit! Glad the diaper did it's job!

Starling: I'm surprised you let DP get a motorcycle at all after knowing what you know. Your dinner sounds so divine!! Mmmmm. I miss amazing restaurants like that. Those are a thing of the past (or maybe distant future) with me not working anymore. We are going out to a decently nice place on Friday while my mom is here and can babysit. As for potty, I'd still talk about it and try - the baby is still a ways off. Would be nice to have her our of dipes before then.

Courtney: I'm SO glad everything got resolved!!! Phew!

I am finally getting better. I hate coughing like mad - it makes me all paranoid that I'm going to miscarry or something! The baby chicks are doing great. Growing SO fast. Getting feathers and trying out their wings. Two of them can get off the ground a bit already (for a second or two)!

My mom is coming on Thursday. I still haven't told her I'm pregnant!!! Unbelievable, considering she knew before DH w/Makenna (I was visiting her) and with my chemical. I booked her trip here right before I found out and thought it would be nice to wait. We always joked that my sister or I would mail her these certain candies that jewish grandmothers seem to always have on their coffee tables. So I ordered some of them online to give to her.  We are also going to tell MIL on Mother's day - whcih means DH's entire family will know. I feel a bit wierd about telling though. I am just about 8 weeks and just do not feel pregnant. I know I should feel thankful but it makes me nervous, despite seeing a heartbeat last week.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Courtney - I'm so glad you finally got paid - what an awful experience.

Everr - I'm in the same place as you with the whole potty thing, so I'll hold you to it.  Just started with pants yesterday, not with much success. Who knew a kid that does absolutely fine when naked can pee his pants 4 times in an hour? But at least he's started telling me when he pees in them, and we did manage to remind him to go on the potty a couple times yesterday. I think it might not have been the best idea to teach him naked first - or at least it promises to be a messy transition. Today he went off to the weekly kid coop, so I have a reprieve from the pottying today.

Cindy - I never felt pregnant with either of mine until I could feel them move (didn't even know with Lituya until 11wks). I was nervous too, so I know what you mean. But it was all fine!

Katmai is doing OK sleeping on his own, but it's only because he's sleeping pretty soundly, I think. He falls asleep with his dad in the big bed, then gets moved to the little bed when he's asleep. He usually gets up and comes into our bed again for the last hour of the night, around 6:30 or so. I'm willing to let him for an extra hour of sleep, but it's definitely crowded with 4!


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## AKislandgirl

McKittre: I've been thinking that your pregnancy with Lituya must have flown by. I feel like this pregnancy is going so fast, probably due to having a toddler to look after! You didn't find out till much later then I did too! I sort of had a "Holy crap are we ready for this baby?!" moment the other day. I've since calmed down! 

Cindy: Can't wait to hear how your mom reacts to the news! Pretty exciting to be sharing!!

DH brought home a cold from his trip and now Fiona has it. Sure hope I escape it. Last night I had a lovely massage! I've decided that I need to book one each month for the rest of this pregnancy. I don't really think that is practical financially but I might just do it anyway! Agh, bliss!


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## Mal85

Sue, I'm having the opposite problem! I was further along when I found out with Owyn, so this pregnancy seems to be just dragging by. Although I am now officially in the second trimester!

We decided to wait on the ultrasound. We're going out of town this weekend instead. I'm going to ask my SIL when she works on a weekend again. I figure it'll be more accurate in a couple of weeks anyway.

Owyn has decided that she does not want a baby. Anytime I ask her if she wants a baby to come live with us, she says no. And that's when she'll even talk about it, most times she avoids the topic. We moved the crib out of her room and into ours over the weekend. Even though she hasn't even asked to sleep in it since we got the toddler bed, she still wasn't down with it leaving her room. She keeps going in our room and saying "Owyn's bed, no baby's bed!" So, I'm sure it's going to be interesting when I actually have the baby, she's pretty possessive. I try not to feel guilty about it, I know the transition will be difficult but it will be sooooo good for her to have a sibling. I just keep reminding myself of that.


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## Everrgreen

Alright, so I did it! I went and bought 2 pairs of play shorts and 3 pairs of boxers for around the house. He is wearing his boxers today and he sort of leaked a teeny tiny bit but then said he had to go potty  Yay!! I hope he can do well with his boxers on around the house. And he looks so freakin' cute with his tiny little butt in his big boy undies  I should take a pictures as this is his first time wearing underwear!

We are finally having some sunshine today and I am soooo thankful. It's been such a cold gray rainy spring. R is napping right now but I think we will go for a nice long walk when he gets up and enjoy the warmth.

Mal - it's probably a good thing you've moved the crib this early. Hopefully by the time the baby comes she'll be over the crib issue.

AK - I hope Fiona feels better and you avoid getting sick! Sending you healthy vibes!

Cindy - Oh how exciting to be able to share your news on Mother's Day! Let us know how it goes 

Kate - I hope all your moving prep is coming along. Moving is such a stressful PITA. I was stalking your thread in the student/working parent forum - do you have any work decisions made yet?

Starling - That is so sad. I agree with you, R will never be on a motorbike as long as I have a say in it! I'm glad you date night went so well!

As for pottying, I am definitely actively encouraging R to use it (as much as I can without causing him to become a stubborn 2 year old about it ) I guess I'm just at a point where I know he gets it and I know he can do it, so I'm just increasing my expectations of him. Plus I need (okay, really want) him to be totally potty trained by September. And the sooner the better! But if E wouldn't respond to that kind of 'encouragment' it may be better to let her decide. She does seem pretty vocal about a lot of things in her life!

R and I will be cosleeping for another 2 years. We are going to be in a studio apartment while I'm school and all I have is a king size bed (and it is an awesome bed and I refuse to sell it!) So we will share the giant bed. He is a big snuggler at night (more so than me, unfortunately) so I don't think he'll be pushing for his own bed any time soon.


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## justKate

Everr--It would definitely just be me and Aubs in a big bed if Huz weren't around. I wouldn't even consider a bed for her if it weren't for Huz, but she likes to put her feet in his back and I think it would be good for us (will be?) to make night time "our time" for talking and cuddling and whatnot. I think DH has been missing out on a lot of that for the last two years. So to that end, we are going on a seven day challenge! The challenge is to have sex every day for a week. I guess it's really my challenge, because I'm the one thats always grumpy/tired/busy/angry/sleepy/whatever. I'm not optimistic that I'll be successful but I think it will be good for the marriage for me to try harder to be physically available.

Now back to the G-rated programming...









Motorcycles...Starling, I would be fine with Huz having a motorcycle, if that were his thing. But I'm not getting near one because I know my baby needs me to be alive. And she's not getting anywhere near one so long as I'm breathing. Hopefully our girls will think "mom (or grandpa, here) rides a Harley so it must not be cool."

My work thing. I'm torn about what to do. I really want to SAH but I'm afraid of not having money. I'm afraid my house is going to be a mess all of the time and I won't be able to keep it together-a-the house, myself, my sanity. I'm afraid Aubs will be bored with just me and will whine all of the time. I'm afraid that I'll resent her because she'll be whining and we'll be broke. I know I shouldn't be complaining about it, but here I am! On the bright side, only seven days of work left. And only two of those days are hearing days!


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## Mal85

Kate, would it be possible for you to work part time? That's what I'm really hoping for, that this part time preschool gig works out. Although it's Thursday and still no call for an interview. It was just rumored that they'd start calling people this week, so I hope I don't have to lose hope yet. I do think Owyn gets bored being at home all the time. It's especially hard for us to leave the house when I have multiple other little ones here everyday. We get outside and we take walks, and now that we have the van we're able to make more trips to the park. But that's the extent of it. She also has a really hard time with sharing, which I'd think would be the opposite with the other kids always here, but I think it makes her more possessive of her things.

Plus, we butt heads with each other all the time. I think if we had a break from each other it would help. With a new baby coming, though, I'm really hesitant to take something full time unless it was working from home. Everyone keep their fingers crossed for me that I hear from the school! I really don't know where to go from here if I don't hear anything from them. It's the last of my options at this point.

Anyway, I think Owyn has spring allergies. DH always has them and they both woke up today miserable. She can't breathe through her nose and she slept horribly last night. She woke up hysterical twice, I think her head was hurting. DH said his head definitely hurt. Then, she'd fall asleep and snore in my face so I couldn't sleep. I can't remember if she's old enough for any allergy medicine yet... I'll have to look into it.


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## mckittre

Mal - keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Mal and Sue - Most of the pregnancy with Lituya flew by. Except for the last month. And especially except for the last 2 weeks. Having a baby 2 weeks and a day "late" is hard!

Everr - That's awesome. I wish Katmai was doing so well. We've been switching off naked vs underwear time. A couple successes, but mostly when he's wearing something he just tells me "I peed in my pants!" after the fact. Sigh... September is my goal too.

Kate - It does seem like part-time might be perfect, with that list of concerns.

Staying at Home vs Working - Both my husband and I work part-time from home, so all of us are at home most of the time, most days. Well, we're outside a lot (especially now that it's spring), and get out on hikes on many days, to the beach, etc... And he goes to his grandma's for a bit on most days. But going somewhere with other people there is sometimes only a couple times a week. We don't get bored. But we also don't get the house cleaned up. And we don't have much money, but that's mostly a choice at this point.

Clingyness - How are your little ones with being clingy? Katmai's totally fine going off with grandparents, etc... but we're having a hard time sending him off with a group of adults and kids. We've been doing a weekly kid coop, and every other week he goes by himself without us. He knows all the kids, he knows all the adults, it's only a few hours... But he comes back and I hear that he's been upset the whole time and needing constant distraction, and dragging everyone else down with him. I feel bad for him and everyone else, but hope he'll just get through it? I don't like being the one with the difficult kid.


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## Vegan Princess

Erin: Maybe she came late to make up for the not knowing early on. ;-) Makenna is fine going off around her friends and with the girl we do a swap with. But oddly enough, I've been going to a class at that little girl's house on Fridays and they have childcare for the hour outside in the backyard. It is the little girl that M loves and a bunch of other kids that she knows yet she cries and clings and won't let me leave her. It doesn't make sense to me. Maybe bc there are more kids? I'm hoping that last week was a fluke and she does better tomorrow! One of the other little boys around the same age won't let his mom leave him and he usually ends up snuggling his mom and falling alseep through the class, like a little angel. When I tried to bring M inside she was a disaster and I had to bring her back out and let her friend's dad distract her so I could go back inside. We are starting a babysitting coop next month with 6 kids and even though M knows most of them pretty well, I'm unsure how she will do being left at different houses and with a large number of kids.

Kate: I think you'll be fine! Any big change like that is sure to breed anxiety. You can always look for work if you don't like it. No stay at home mom has a perfectly clean house! Aubrey will love being with you. But you may want to make a point of getting out and doing activities with other kids as well. As for the money. I made way more than DH. Going from making a lot to living on less than half was a definite adjustment! Sometimes I wish we had a bit more money to hire a sitter here and there or to enjoy coffees out every day or silly little things. But mostly I'd much rather be home than having those little luxuries. I definitely do not resent M or being home bc of our tight budget.

Mal: I hope Owyn is feeling better! M snores often - it keeps us up alot (thanks to her adenoids).

Speaking of, M's surgery is Tuesday! She has a bit of a cough and runny nose still so there is a tiny possibility we might have to postpone but I think she'll likely be fine by then.

I told my mom on the way home from the airport today. I gave her the candy wrapped up and said it was an early mother's day present. She didn't get it right away. I sort of had to remind her a couple times. But then she started crying bc she was so happy.  Planning to tell MIL on mother's day. I'm sure she won't cry. LOL.

Cindy


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## justKate

Cindy, that's sweet about your mom. She was probably not expecting it because of the way you told her before. I'm sure the surgery will go just fine. I know it's not the same thing, but DH had his adnoids out 2 years ago (in addition to some other things) and it really dramatically improved his sleep. They were considering putting him on a CPAP at night, but after the surgery he was fine (in that respect). Other aspects of the surgery didn't go so well, but that had to do with his sinuses. He said the adnoids were the least painful part--easier than the tonsils.

I agree i should be looking for part time work. I just needed the encouragement! Especially since I don't need health insurance--that should make it easier to find something that wil meet the other needs.

Erin, the life you've chosen is so attractive to me. I think it is to DH too--we're just too afraid to make a big change. And we've both got these bloody student loans to be repaid....

Mal, with the preschool position, would you be able to take the new baby to work with you? If so, that would be perfect.

So pregnant mamas, is there anything that you'll do differently this time around? One thing I'd like to do if/when we have another baby is learn to nurse in a sling or wrap. Aubs threw up every time i put her in the sling, so we never figured that out. I also want one of these new Ergos when the time comes: Ergo Performance


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## Mal85

Cindy, I hope M does well with her surgery! My niece is having her adenoids and tonsils removed and tubes put in her ears all at the same time, next Wednesday. She's almost 5 though, so I'm sure it's different for her. My sister has promised her all the popsicles and ice cream she wants while she's healing!

Kate, I'm not sure about taking the baby to work with me. If I happened to get the job I wouldn't be officially hired until just a couple of months before the baby is due, so I'm not sure what kind of leave I'd be eligible for. If it's not much, then I may request bringing the baby in with me while it's a wee one. I could wear it while teaching and considering it's a pretty small preschool, I can't really see it being an issue. Maybe a distraction the first few days, but we could work with that. It's only preschool, I could make a whole a lesson surrounding it.

As far as doing things differently, I think a lot of things will be different! Mostly just because I know I won't be able to meet this baby's needs as readily as I could with Owyn. Not with a toddler that needs me too. I'm hoping that helps form this little one into a more patient person than Owyn is. Other than that, it's hard to tell. So much depends on the personality of the baby. I do think I'll babywear a lot more than I did with Owyn. I'll need my hands more! I have a Beco that I love and my good friend just bought a woven wrap she's been letting me play with when I baby sit her son. I LOVE it and definitely have to get one for this baby!


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## AKislandgirl

Oh, I'll be thinking about M on Tuesday. I'm sure everything will go smoothly.

Kate, funny you should mention nursing in the sling. I was talking to my sister yesterday and she said that in order to avoid nursing a toddler every time she sat down to nurse the baby she would just nurse in the sling and the toddler would be none the wiser! She was preparing me for jealous nursing battles!

As for doing things differently... I'd like to try EC this time around. I'm really intrigued by it and think at least part time its something we should at least try. I may decide its not for us but we'll see. I'm also planning to get a woven wrap Mal! I used a stretchy wrap until Fiona was too heavy for it. I loved how comfy it was and of all my slings/baby carriers it was her favorite. I think a woven wrap will be awesome. I've got to learn how to do back carries with a little one! One thing I'm really looking forward to is just having my own kids and no more daycare kids in the house. It will be so nice!

Our daycare girl was here when Fiona woke up. She was so excited and distracted that she didn't even ask to nurse until 1:00pm today. She went to bed at 9:00 so this was a long stretch for her for sure. Normally she'll nurse at least twice in the AM. My baby is growing up! 

We've got lots of plans for working in the garden and doing yard work this weekend. It's sunny today... hoping the sun sticks around for a few days.


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## Everrgreen

Happy Mother's Day!!

AK - I loved my woven wrap, it was a good purchase! I have a didymos indio yew. R nursed in it a bit and also in the ring sling. I have kept all my carriers (moby wrap, woven wrap, ring sling, and boba). I had a pouch and a mei tai at one point but they got lost somehow.


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## Everrgreen

Kate - Hope your challenge is going well ;o) I miss sex, I wish I had more free time for dating! 

Mal - Keeping my fingers crossed that you get an interview!

mckittre - The only people that watch R without me are my mom, my friend and her dh, and there is one childcare worker at the ymca that he will stay with. I have tried with other ymca childcare workers but he has a total meltdown with them. It's frustrating though bc they don't even try and comfort him or help him out. The one he will stay with has been awesome. He also had a meltdown with her but she comforted him and held him and now he will go right to her.

And R's potty use while wearing undies is not great. I have to stay on him all the time, constantly reminding him to use the potty, and even then he still often pees in them. But if I leave him naked, he NEVER misses. I can even leave him naked at night (as long as I bring him to the potty in the morning when he gets squirmy). I'll keep trying though!

I only have 4 months left as a stay at home mom. I am sooo ready to be done! And I do think R is getting bored being home with me (and the winter, followed by the cold gray spring haven't helped). Although I do plan on savouring every moment this summer. I think R will enjoy daycare, although I am expecting that there will be a difficult transition.


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## starling&diesel

*HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY TO US ALL! *

I hope that you are all having a wonderful day.

DP is off at work cooking beautiful brunches for lots of other mamas, but I got celebrated before she left, and heck, I get beautiful brunches made for me on a regular basis! That's always the way it is when your DP is a chef. We're very good at postponing things!

*Kate* ... How's the Nooky Challenge going?

*Ever, Mal, Kate* ... I've been thinking about getting a woven wrap this time too. I had a Moby-style wrap that I used when E was an infant, but she wasn't a big fan of it, and neither was I. I have a friend who will lend me a Buddha wrap, but I don't know much about it. It's rather like the Moby. I still use my Ergo every single day. That thing has been a work horse! We have a ring sling too, but I stopped carrying E in it when she was about eight months because it was ruining my back. I loved it too though! I love the idea of doing a back wrap earlier this time. *Mckittre*, how did you figure it out? Youtube was my babywearing friend and tutor when we lived up in the mountains.

As for doing things differently this time. Hmm. I've been thinking about that question since it was posted, but I'm not sure that I have any great plans to do things differently. I, too, would love to try EC, but in all honesty, I doubt it's for me, and I know it's not for DP, that's for sure. I would like a king size bed this time, if that counts. I would like to aim to be able to put this baby down once and a while. E was carried and held nearly full time for that first year, and I just don't think that will work as well this time. Lots of babywearing and holding for sure, but with a toddler along for the ride, I think the option to put the baby down would be good. *Courtney? Nilla? Mckittre? * Opinions on this?

I'm going to do the EBF with the Lact-Aid sns again, even though it's a drag. That part I'm not looking forward to.

And of course, try #2 for my homebirth!

Oh, and I'm going to look into hypnobirthing, I would like to quieter. *cough* Yeah, right. But I figure if we're able to be at home this time, I would like E to be there if she wants, so the bellowing like a mortally wounded cow might not be ideal. I was *loud*.


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## Mal85

Happy Mother's Day everyone! We didn't do anything terribly special today. DH bought me a Nikon DSLR camera a few weeks ago, so I said that could definitely count as my Mother's Day gift. We went out of town yesterday for my cousin's First Communion and to visit with their family. I was supposed to go on my own, but DH gets along really well with my cousin's husband and wanted to visit him, so him and Owyn came along. This morning the men went out and bought donuts for everyone, so that was a nice Mother's Day breakfast. They also let all the women go out last night and see a movie, which was awesome considering they all stayed home with the kids! It was really nice to go out with some women and no kids for the evening.

Owyn has had a huge breakthrough in the last couple of days, the one I've been waiting so patiently for! She asked to wear a pull-up on Friday when she went down for her nap, so I let her. When she woke up, she was dry and asked to go potty and she peed on her potty chair!!! She was so proud! Then, yesterday morning she made the 2.5 hour drive to the First Communion and was dry when we got there. So, we went straight to the bathroom and she didn't go. But shortly after we sat down she announced that she had to go potty and peed on the toilet! Those are the only two successes, but she's been trying other than that. She'll tell me she needs to potty, but normally after she's already gone. When I ask her if she needs to go, she excitedly says yes, but only actually went those two times. I'm just so glad she finally made the connection of what it means to pee on the potty! I'm hoping this is the first big step towards no more diapers for Owyn! Although, now I'm realizing once she's not in cloth anymore, none of her pants are going to fit.


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## mckittre

Happy Mothers Day to all! We didn't do much today - had a job helping to guide some birders on a hike (we know the hiking part, another guide knew the birds) as part of the shorebird festival here. So that was fun, but not very mothers' day ish (I watched both kids and half-helped guide, while my husband did most of it). He did make me and his mom dinner tonight, and promises to do the dishes later.

Everr - we're in exactly the same place with the whole potty thing. He always just goes in pants or underwear. Which means I always put a diaper on him when we're going out. Which just reinforces the whole problem, I think. Tell me if you figure anything out!

Mal - yay for Owyn!

Starling - I certainly didn't manage to be any quieter in labor the second time around! I do put Lituya down a lot more (I can even transfer her to the bed once she's asleep at night!). She's fine with it, but I don't know how much of that is personality, and how much is neccessity.

Kate - We were lucky enough to be able to pay off the last of our student loans a couple years ago. It's so much easier to make different choices without debt! And since we don't have a mortgage or rent either, we have very little in the way of absolutely required monthly bills. So there's a bit more flexibility to deal with wildly fluctuating income.

Doing things differently with #2: I did learn to nurse in the wrap, but haven't done it all that much. It's awkward as she gets bigger, and though I could walk while doing it, I couldn't really do anything else (change toddler diapers, make dinner, etc...). I do a significant amount of reading books while nursing, though. Learning to wear a small baby on the back, however, was incredibly useful! I've been putting Lituya on my back in the woven wrap since she was less than 1 month old, and I can do a lot more that way than I ever could in a front carry. And I absolutely used YouTube and TheBabyWearer to teach me. As for EC, I tried a little bit with Katmai early on, but never even considered it for Lituya. There's no way I'm paying enough attention to her to catch her cues. With her, I'm more relaxed. Of course, I'm paying less attention to her too - she fusses a bit longer before I get to picking her up, she spends more time on her rug with her toys, and less time as the center of everything. But I keep telling myself how much she loves watching her big brother.


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## AKislandgirl

Sounds like nice Mother's Day's for everyone. I had a nice day despite getting hit full on with the cold I so desperately tried to avoid. The night before though I got to head out on my own for nearly 3 hours to my first book club. It was a potluck and it was divine. I have not had that much time to myself without Fina where I was doing something like going to the dentist and running errands. I loved it. Fiona got me some flowers and herself a Happy Mothers Day balloon! LOL We got a lot of outdoor chores done and I vegged out when I could. DH made an awesome dinner AND did the dishes so that was a really nice treat.

Today, I'm laying low. Feeling pretty crappy and just going to let Fiona play in the yard all day. We set up her sand and water table yesterday. She loves it. She played it in for and hour and a half straight! She made a lot of "muffins for my chickens" and a house for them too. It is so much fun to see her imagination growing. She often carries little imaginary animals or babies in her hands these days too. Too cute!

Ultra sound tomorrow! Cross your fingers that baby cooperates and we can find out the sex! I'm so excited!!

Starling: I did hypnobirthing with Fiona. IT was pretty good but I was still quite loud. I'm going to try to at least explain it better to my doula this time around so that at least the rest of the room is quieter. We'll see how that goes.


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## Everrgreen

AK - Can't wait to hear how the ultrasound goes! I hope your feeling better today 

Mal - Yay for potty successes!!

I'm glad to hear everyone had a nice Mother's Day!

If I were having another baby the things I would do differently are: be better prepared for labour (snacks and drinks!), R came early and I had nothing decent to eat or drink in the house, which sucked! I also would do more labouring in the bath tub/shower as opposed to the birth pool. The birth pool felt so big to me, I hated all the openness, but I didn't think to just go back to the tub (which is where I started until we got the birth pool ready). I would hopefully birth the placenta at home (although I know there's nothing I can do about that). And hopefully nursing would come easier and I wouldn't have to supplement. It would be nice to just have the baby at home and not have to leave for at least a week, just snuggle and have everything go as it should! I would still want to cosleep, babywear (and I have more options now, with R I only had the moby wrap when he was a newborn, but I loved using the ring sling with my friends newborn), cloth diaper, etc etc. I did try EC with R but wasn't too successful, so I don't think I'd put much energy into that again. Anyway, it's fun to think about, but in reality I really doubt I'll ever have another baby.


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## AKislandgirl

It's a girl!


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## Vegan Princess

Yay Sue!!!! I bet that makes the baby feel so much more real!! What were you hoping for?

M had her surgery this morning. We are home now. It was a bit traumatic for me and DH. They gave her versed before to relax her. It almost made me cry seeing her like that (it acts on the same receptors as alcohol so it's sort of like they are drunk). Then they had us go back to the OR and hold her hands while they put her to sleep with the gas from the mask. That was very traumatic to see! I had thought we wouldn't go in but they wanted us to. I was bawling after we came out. The surgery itself went well but the breathing tube they put in 1st was too big and they had to put in a smaller one and when she woke up her airway was all irritated and she sounded like she had croup. We had to stay an extra hour after her breathing treatment. But once we got up to leave she started commenting on ladybugs and things she saw around. Since we got home she's been great. Eating TONS and drinking and said she didn't need more medicine. So we are just home watching videos for a few days now. Glad that is over!!!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

I've been thinking about you guys Cindy! So glad that you are home now!


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## justKate

Cindy, so glad to hear that it is over and you're settled back home. I think it will make a big difference in her snoring and sleeping. It is so hard to see them like that though.









Sue, yay for girl babies! It is so fun to know. What does Fiona think?

Starling, will you definitely need the SNS again?

And hooray for potty successes! After doing really well for a couple of weeks, we had a total regression. Aubs went 7 days without pooping, because stupid me assumed that she had gone at daycare at some point. So she got a suppository on Sunday night and went 4 times in the next 24 hours. I definitely feel like a bad mom over it. I think she's just been holding it. So now we're working on making poop not scary, and on getting her lots of natrual laxatives and fiber. I think I'm going to limit her to 3 days, and if she doesn't go in that time then she'll get a suppository. I'm afraid she's going to damage something by holding it indefinitely. And it's not a diaper issue--she won't go in a diaper, either. Ugh. Always something, right?!

The 7 day challenge was a total bust, but I'm blaming DH. We're going to start over after I ovulate.

Baby's sex predictions--I wanted to make some but forgot! Here goes:

Mal--boy

Starling--child that is very unlike E. Maybe a boy, or maybe a really wild girl. A little tasmanian devil.

Cindy--also a boy

And really stretching it,

Everr--I think you WILL have more children. Two more, and at least one will be a boy. And I think you'll be shocked by how perfect it is.


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... So glad to hear that M is doing well after her surgery! I can't imagine watching my baby be so vulnerable, thank goodness that is over!

*Sue* ... Yay for your exciting news! Names?

*Kate* ... Oh, I'm positive that I'll need the SNS again. I've just lent it to friends who induce lactation for their new adopted baby, and it felt like giving away all my seatbelts. The LA is my security! I know that I have lots of time to get it back, but I was so dependent on it that it became a part of me, in a way. Anyway, I'm also fairly certain that I'll have more milk this time, but I doubt that it will be enough. As for your predictions, you're not the only one who thinks this next one will be our wild child! My friend who has a boy the same age as our littles is also due within a week of me this time too and she is convinced that I'm going to have one heck of a busy little boy. She laughs and says that this time she can sit back and enjoy her coffee while her little girl sits peacefully in her lap while I chase around my boy who is climbing the walls. She figures it's my turn. Funny!

*Ever* ... There is definitely another baby in your future. Don't get rid of those carriers!

Speaking of my peaceful little girl, she fell while running today and scraped her knuckles. They were still bleeding by nap time, and I didn't want her to bleed on our white sheets, so I offered her a bandaid. She had no idea what it was!







She's never hurt herself badly (except that time she got burns from hot coffee and we ended up in the hospital) and so has only ever had arnica cream for her bumps and bruises. She was petrified of the bandaid idea. But she did let me wrap her hand in gauze, which she thinks is very dramatic and grown up. So funny!

ETA: I think we're not finding out whether it's a boy or girl, although I might cave.


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## Mal85

Sue: Yay for another girl! Did you take Fiona for the ultrasound? We're going to take Owyn when we find out the sex, I hope she likes it more than the ultrasound she saw last week!

Cindy: I was thinking of M today, I'm glad she's handling it well. My niece goes in for the same surgery tomorrow as well as getting tubes in her ears. She has a genetic bone disease that comes with respiratory issues, asthma, and has a slightly enlarged heart. So, my sister is freaking out a little about her going under because of all that and being worried about them damaging bones in her ear while they're in there. Keep her in your thoughts tomorrow, ladies!

Kate: Poor Aubrey! My cousin's daughter had that issue when she was a little one (she's almost 13 now). She was embarrassed about going poop and would hold it in. It landed her in the hospital for a few days! I hope Aubrey overcomes her fear soon, good thing you're catching it now and can work with her on it. I like your gender predictions, I hope you're right about the boy!


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## Everrgreen

AK - Yay! Congratulations on another girl!!

That was my guess too!! Woohoo! See:

AK: Girl

Mal: Boy

Starling: Boy

And Cindy I have to add you now... Ok, my absolute first thought was girl, but when I think about it more I think maybe boy. I have to go with my first thought though, so GIRL!

Starling - I agree with Kate, I think you're in for a crazy boy  I consider R to be kind of a crazy boy and he's never needed a band-aid either  Maybe he's not as crazy as I think! He has had lots of bumps, bruises, and scrapes (his legs always have marks on them) and he has a teeny tiny chip out of his one tooth.

Cindy - I'm glad to hear that M's surgery went well! I would have been crying too. I can't imagine having to watch R go through something like that. Ok, even thinking about it now is making me get a bit teary :'(

Kate - Poor Aubs! I don't think you should feel like a bad mom, I would also assume that R had been pooping at daycare.

I had a bad mom moment last week, it was the day we were leaving to go see my mom and in the rush to leave in the morning I forgot to put R in a clean diaper. So he went into the car in the diaper he had worn all night. He fell asleep at first but then woke up about 45 minutes later crying so hard about his 'sore bum'. At first I didn't know what it could be but then all of a sudden I remembered! So I pulled over to change his bum and it was red and swollen and blistering  I bought him some fries as an apology, but I felt so bad. He had a patch of blisters that scabbed over and are just about healed now. Such a bad mom...


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## Everrgreen

Oh I forgot I wanted to tell you guys my crazy story for the day. I was at the grocery store and R was in the cart and we were just walking through the doors when an older man coming out stopped us. He had a strong accent, but I'm sure he said something about 'I will give you advice.. you need to tie him up and let him cry... YOU don't cry, HE cries...' And then he said 'I will tell you why..' but then someone trying to get past him got all huffy about us blocking the door and so I walked into the store and away. I sort of wanted to here his explanation as to why. I didn't have a chance to say anything to him. Not that I really would have bothered wasting my breath on an old man. But it was sooo weird!


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## Vegan Princess

I have no thoughts on what this baby could be! I was thinking boy w/Makenna so I was wrong there. LOL. I'd be thrilled with a boy since we already have a girl. But secretly I think I am hoping for a girl. At this point we are thinking we don't want to find out. But we could change our minds a few times in the next 11 weeks. As for doing things differently. I definitely am anticipating nursing issues again too. Only this time I already know how to handle them so I am hoping to not have all the stress that plagued me the first month last time. I plan to start my meds the day I give birth and to pump right away and to use the lactaid only. We supped with bottles in the beginning last time and it caused even more problems.I too am so thankful for the lactaid!! I think we will probably cosleep more with this one. M was in our bed for 6 weeks and in our room for 6 months. I wouldn't be surprised if this one is in our bed for 6 months. Of course M is in our bed all the time now. Maybe that will change now that she will be able to breathe at night. I too would like to be able to put this one down. I often let M stay latched on for her entire nap or I couldn't get her to go down. NO WAY is that happening with a toddler running around. Also I am not going to push solids at all. M was wasn't into a lot of purees and I tried to find other things she would eat. Sort of baby led, sort of not. I think I may do total baby led this time. But mostly I am hoping this kid likes to sleep and likes to eat. 2 things Makenna was never a fan of! Oh and M didn't like the moby in the beginning. I didn't get the ergo until she was around 6 months so I see myself using the ergo a lot in the beginning and maybe this kid will like the moby.

Thanks to whomever reccomended Mary Poppins way back. Makenna is thoroughly engrossed. She wasn't so into the Little Mermaid. We also have Annie to watch tomorrow. Right now she is obsessed with the Signing Time videos. She asks to watch them over and over and over. The same one. Today she watched the 1 we have 3 times.

Mal: I'm thinking of your sister and family! It is scary to go through! But now that the actual procedure is over, she is doing pretty well (knock on wood!)


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## mckittre

AK - Yay! exciting news!

I could try to guess for the rest of you, but I only have a 50/50 track record guessing my own kids (I thought boy both times). I also chose not to find out with either one. Having the surprise to look forward to helped with those last few interminable weeks.

Cindy - glad she's doing well with the surgery. I know a little 3 yr old in town who's going to have her tonsils out soon.

Kate - I would have figured the same thing if it had been Katmai. Don't feel bad!

Starling - I actually have had two easygoing infants (Katmai's still easy)- so you don't necessarily always get the payback you deserve. Lituya could certainly turn out to be a terror of a toddler, though. Or maybe I'll have two terrible teenagers.

We had our weekly kid coop at my place today, and they planted out some of my seedlings in the garden. Hope it's not too early! Mostly they just ran around and played in the woods though, which was fun. The other little boy Katmai's age had trouble with his mom being gone, just like Katmai did the other week. Maybe it's the age - being dropped off with a bunch of crazy kids is scary even if you know them. The older ones are fine. As is the little one with big sisters along.


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## justKate

Nursing issues... Hopefully they will be less for you both. I had an augmentation on one side, and that was definitely the lower-producer, but it almost seemed like that boob finally figured it out towards the end. So maybe it will be a better performer next time around. I'm hoping that you (Cindy and Starling) both find the same thing!

My best friend (the one that's pg with twins in Germany) is now being told that she's having two boys instead of a boy and a girl. I think she's disappointed, but since she's 31 weeks now I'm hoping they are just too crowded to tell. I agreed to send her my pump with new parts and tubes, but I haven't done it yet and I'm feeling bad about it. I just feel so attached to my pump, and it's probably only 50/50 whether I'll get it back. And they're expensive, you know?! Oh well, putting it on my to-do list for tonight so that it gets there in time.


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## AKislandgirl

Kate: I would assume the same thing. Hopefully Aubrey gets back on track soon. Poor girl. A week is a long time to old it!

McKittre: If I tried to leave Fiona in that situation she would freak. I think the fact that he can go is amazing! And can I come to your co-op? It sounds amazing!

Everrgreen: I'm confident that you will have more babies too! 

We did bring FIona to the ultra sound. It was pretty fun! She kept saying things "like there is my baby!" and "Baby needs milk". She loved hearing the heartbeat and asked to hear it again. I'm with her! She also thought it was pretty funny that Mama had her belly sticking out and the tech was playing with Mama's belly. We've been talking about her baby sister... she still insists its a brother! I told her maybe another time but this time we are having a baby sister. Glad we have time to work that out.

Names? Well the name game can really begin now but I have some favorites... Violet, Eliza, Hazel, and Sylvia. We want to use an Irish middle name. Maybe Maureen or Roisin (row-sheen). This will likely change a million times. But right now Violet is my favorite. It was my grandmothers name on my Dad's side. We didn't really know his side of the family too well. Weird family craziness. My mom thinks its crazy. But she was my Dad's Mama you know and I know my Dad would be really touched if we used a name from his side of the family. I really love it too. DH likes it but doesn't love it. I'm sure I'll get my way though!







I had Beatrice on the list but my sister just named her new goat Beatrice! LOL!

So my milk is completely gone now. She is still nursing a few times a day and doesn't seem to care most of the time. It's not to comfortable though I have to tell you. I've been making her vanilla steamers to drink on the couch in the morning. She likes that and has never been a milk drinker so this is new. Sometimes she'll go almost the whole day without asking to nurse but others its quite often. I'm trying to really limit it though. We'll see how this goes.


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## AKislandgirl

Forgot to share the babes picture! Here she is sucking her thumb. It was really fun watching her work to get her thumb in her mouth!


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## Vegan Princess

Ugh. Spent from 1 until 4 in the ER last night w/M. She woke up at midnight and was having trouble breathing thanks to the breathing tube issue yesterday. They finally gave her an oral steroid and let us go home. It's still not completely better. I really pray we don't have to go back tonight! Being up half the night while you're pregnant can't be healthy! Or while you are recovering from surgery! The ER is a really frustrating place! At triage they determined she was urgent enough to be sent back to the emergency part (instead of the other less urgent area). But once we got back there, we were so low on the list of patients that we had to wait forever to see the dr. And when we finally saw him, he got paged to someone more urgent before he could prescribe the drug. So we sat for at least another hour before they administered the meds. We were going to have to stay an extra hour so they could decide if they wanted to admit her but they decided that was unnecessary. I was thinking of STARLING everytime I saw the paramedics wheel someone past our room. And while I hated waiting, I was thankful we were not arriving by ambulance or air flight like some other kids were.

Cindy


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## justKate

Oh poor baby! I hope she's feeling better today.


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Oh no! Poor M! I hope she is feeling better today and you have a restful night.

AK - Love the pic! It makes me feel all teary and sentimental  It's so exciting!


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## AKislandgirl

Oh Cindy, that sounds terrible. Poor baby! I sure hope she feels better today.


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy, how is M?

I have cut Juniper off boob wise. not entirely but I am limiting her now. going to bed and waking up from a nap na-nas only. at first it was hard for her but she is pretty accepting of it now. I mean it's only been since yesterday but she sort of gets it.


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## Vegan Princess

Makenna is definitely getting better but not there yet. Her breathing is a lot better. I think by today it may be pretty normal. That was the scariest part! Yesterday she didn't take pain meds all that often and insisted we go to the park in the morning. She didn't run around a lot - mostly sat in the swing and played in sand. She woke up from nap yesterday in pain again and then she was up like 20 times last night. Just needing to cuddle mama or take more medicine or drink water. As long as she is on pain medicine she is happy and playing. I think she'll be back to normal in a couple days. The funny thing is, she has asked to nurse a few times. I've let her try. It only lasts for a second or two and then she says she feels better.

Last night M begged me to go to bed at 6. I figured ok, she's had surgery and she's whiny. DH wasn't home. She didn't want a bath or anything, just insisted I put her to bed. We got in bed at 6:30. She had a low grade fever and we laid there for half hour while she kept telling me she didn't feel well and was tired. But then I guess she did feel better. After laying there for an hour she wanted to get up - only now it really was bed time. I wasn't about to let her up and start from scratch again. So we ended up laying there for 2.5 hours until she fell asleep at 9!!! I was so pissed. But I wasn't about to leave her to put herself to bed and get all upset right after surgery. Talk about ridiculous!

Courtney: Yay for Juniper understanding about the weaning!

Question for you prego mamas or those who've had 2: Did you feel your uterus stretching the 2nd time? I get some very mild cramping at night sometimes and I am wondering if it is growing pains that I wasn't able to feel the first time?

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

yes, i felt that in subsequent pregnancies


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## Mal85

I'm glad M is doing better. The docs told my sister it would probably take a full week before my niece was back to normal, so I wouldn't worry too much about her still being kinda puny. It's hard to watch though, knowing that's not how she normally is.

As for the growing pains, I had some of that early on too. Not as much now, but I am getting a lot more round ligament pain than I did with my first pregnancy. And my tailbone has been sooooo sore. Is that normal? I had a lot of tailbone pain when I was in labor and it's like that only not as intense. If that's already hurting, I won't even be able to walk by the end of this! I hope it doesn't get worse.

My niece's surgery went well. Her sister spent the night with us and had a sleepover with Owyn because they kept E overnight... with her other issues, they wanted to keep an eye on her a little longer. She was with my sister when they picked up J (her sister) and she seemed to be handling it okay, just really sleepy and ready for some pudding! The sleepover was interesting. Owyn looooooved it. I think she'd have one every night if it were up to her. They played together really well, took a bath together which they thought was awesome, and shared some popcorn while they watched a movie before bed. They stayed up super late for Owyn, but they had a really good time. J kept saying "This is so fun!!!". I told DH at the end of the night that one night of it wasn't too bad, but I was so tired by the time they fell asleep. I'm so glad we don't have twins!


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Aww that's fun! I love watching R play with his cousin (the one who got him sick ) They are very sweet together. They play together so well that when I've had both of them the day is so easy! R isn't bothering me for my attention. I think having twins in some situations would be awesome, but I doubt all twins play together so great!

Cindy - I'm glad to hear M is recovering well! R does that bedtime thing to me sometimes too, he'll say he wants 'num-num sleep' way too early, and I have to turn him down bc I *know* he won't actually go to sleep and it will just give him a little power-rest to stay up even later! It would be hard to say no though if I knew he wasn't feeling great.

Thursday - Good luck with the weaning. I am down to before and after bedtime/nap too. Although I think I'm ready to cut it down even further. Maybe to just before bedtime/nap. I don't know if that would go over well. I've tried in the early morning to just snuggle but he REALLY wants his num-num in the morning (and afterwards he goes back to sleep for another hour or so, which is awesome!)

R did really well with his pottying yesterday. I had him wear shorts most of the day and he remembered about 75% of the time. We also did our first diaper-free outing and he stayed dry! It was just a quick trip to the grocery store but I was proud of him


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## mckittre

Cindy - I'm glad Makenna's getting better.

Nursing: We're mostly bedtime and early morning nursers these days, usually not more than a minute each time. I'd be somewhat tempted to wean him, but don't want to fight the "why baby sister can nurse and not you" battle.

Everr - I am so jealous on the pottying! I put underwear on Katmai and ask him to keep them clean and dry. 1 min later I ask him if his underwear are dry and he says "No, I peed in them a little bit." I'm tempted to just take him on outings naked.

Yesterday morning Katmai spent a long time (over half an hour) carefully picking up all the toys in the room with needlenose pliers and carrying them over to the box where Lituya was sitting. The stuffed animals were easy, but once he got to the little cars, they started slipping out of the pliers halfway across the room, or rolling away when he was trying to grab them. And he was so so frustrated, crying and yelling at them, and didn't seem happy at all. But he stubbornly insisted on doing all of them, with no help. He was at least happy when he finally got it. I can start to see my own extreme childhood stubbornness in him, and I'm not sure if I want to!

It's been gorgeous and sunny and a little warm lately (and super long days), and I spent all afternoon out in the garden yesterday - it's about 2/3 planted! I love May.


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## Vegan Princess

I lost the baby. Had ultrasound this morning and there was no heartbeat. Baby stopped growing last week. The day of M's surgery. Having 2nd ultrasound later to confirm at a higher tech place. But I am 99.9% sure the first one was correct. I guess I will have D&C on Friday. I am just heartbroken and exhausted thinking about having to go through TTC all over again!


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## justKate

Oh no Cindy. No no no. I'm so sorry. Maybe the next U/S at the high tech place will have answers for you. I really am so sorry.


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## Mal85

Oh Cindy, I'm heartbroken for you.







Wish I could give you a hug in real life, though...


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## Nillarilla

Cindy, I am so incredibly sorry for your loss.


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## starling&diesel

Oh, Cindy! How sad! I am so sorry to hear the news. How hard for you and your family. So sad. Many, many virtual hugs.


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy,my heart is breaking with you. I'm so so sorry Mama.


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## Everrgreen

Cindy, I am so very sorry. This is so heartbreaking. I am keeping you and your family in my thoughts and sending you hugs.


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## mckittre

Cindy - I'm so sorry for your loss. Lots of hugs.


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy, still thinking about you. I hope you are doing OK. I can't imagine how you must be feeling right now. I hope that you are able to take care of yourself and surround yourself with supportive people right now.

DH left this morning for 3.5 weeks. Sigh. I hate these trips but we always manage. Lack of communication is one of the hardest parts. I just hope the time goes by quickly.

I told you guys about my friends 18 month who is potty trained. Well the diapers she promised me arrived this week. There must be some good ju-ju in those diapers because we have had several potty success in the last several days. We put up a poster board on the bathroom door too. Every time she pees or poops in the toilet she adds a sticker. So far so good. If she is wearing a diaper then there is no chance she'll tell me before she goes but I've been offering at each diaper change and letting her run around naked or in her underwear more and that seems to be working. I think my reluctance to let her be naked more (which always resulted in peeing on the floor before now) was holding her back. Hoping the trend continues.


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## Vegan Princess

Thanks for the thoughts. I am holding it together better today. I've started cramping and bleeding. I've been so torn as to whether or not I should let this happen naturally or have the D&C. My midwife of course said I should do it naturally and she would come help me and give me herbs to help with the bleeding. But after reading about womens experiences at this stage (I am 9.5 weeks), it sounds horrid. Lots of blood loss and trips to the ER are not uncommon. And pain. Some say the pain is worse than labor contractions bc they don't build gradually and they don't have pauses in between. I also talked to my fertility specialist and he said there shouldn't be a risk to my future fertility to do the procedure. So I am going to have it done tomorrow. I just want to get it over and move on and I want to put myself through the least misery possible. I could have had it done in the office but chose the hospital bc I want to be put out so I don't have to feel anything. That said, I'm not 100% sure it won't happen naturally before then. I'm thankful that one of my mom friends took Makenna tomorrow and will take her most of the day tomorrow. It's so hard not having family around!

Not even working on potty around here b/w M's surgery and this. Maybe in a couple weeks. She did ask to sit on the potty while my friend was watching her yesterday, but she didn't go.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - I'm still thinking of you. I hope everything goes well tomorrow. I'm so sorry you are having to go through this.

Pottying is still going very well here. Royce is now wearing pants and/or boxers all the time and using the potty most of the time (still the odd accident). We had a 3 hour car ride yesterday and he stayed dry and used the potty when we arrived! I had a diaper on him too but he didn't use it. But this morning he pooped on the floor... We are at my moms and he was downstairs with his 2 year old cousin and I guess he was too busy to use the potty. BUT, he did come and get me and when I went down there was toilet paper all over it like he had tried to clean it up.


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## Mal85

Cindy, I hope you're taking it easy. I know this can't be an easy time, especially with all the stress of M's surgery last week on top of it all. Take it easy and let yourself just be sad for a little while if you need to.

Good luck to you Sue with your DH gone. I don't know how you do it! I am so ready for a break by the time my husband gets home, I can't imagine him being gone for that long!

Can't remember if I posted this or not yet, but my daycare family had their HUGE baby boy over the weekend! He was supposed to come yesterday via c-section, but she went into labor 2 days early. 10 lbs 14 oz!!! I can't wait to see his chubby cheeks! I'm sure his big sister is loving every minute of having him here, she's such a nurturing little girl.

We're making the leap with potty training. I was just waiting on it to click for Owyn and now it seems it has. She finally knows how to do it, I just need to encourage her to use this newfound skill. So, she's either naked or in regular underwear while we're at home, from now on. Hold me to it ladies! I'm going to pick up some Pull-Ups for her to wear when we leave the house and for overnight. She is always asking for them since my daycare girl wears them and she actually does well with them on, better than with a diaper, so we'll give them a try for those occasions. I put her in underwear after her nap this afternoon, and she used the potty twice in a row. She only had one accident before bed and that was while she was eating dinner.


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## mckittre

Cindy - I'll be thinking of you tomorrow. So sorry.

Pottying: I'm jealous of all of you. Katmai has been wonderful about using the potty while naked for quite a while, but fails completely any time he's wearing pants (can't put him in just underwear, he takes them right off). As in, will usually pee within 5 minutes of pants going on, regardless of how long it's been since he peed. And the last couple days he's had a bunch of accidents even while naked. I can't even imagine taking him out of the house without a diaper, and at this rate, he'll be 4 before I even try. I think he may need some kind of reward system? I'm out of ideas.


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## justKate

Hugs to you Cindy. I don't blame you for doing the D&C instead. If it were me, I think that would be the more emotionally healthy route. Keep us posted on how you're doing.

Pottying--Aubs is (shockingly) doing great with the potty. I'm still putting her in a diaper at night, but during the day she's in panties and has about 1 accident/week. This is mostly thanks to her daycare, where there is peer pressure to use the potty like a big kid. We are having some trouble with her holding her poop for a long time, but thanks to a prune/plum juice/water mixture and some ground flaxseed she seems to be doing better with that. I think this is the first relatively easy thing Aubs has ever done. I'm expecting some regression when we move, but overall I'm really impressed with her. And it was totally her--I would have left her in diapers for a while longer.









Today is my last day of work. My inlaws are here (ugh) until we move...movers come monday and we head out for our big drive on Tuesday. Hard to believe its here already!

Mal, will you be taking care of the new baby? 10 lbs seems huge! Our neighbor's baby is 14 lbs at 4 mos, and it just makes me laugh to see him, he's so cute. Aubs was 16 lbs at 1 year!


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## Mal85

Wow Kate, is it moving time already?! That seems like it just flew by!! I hope all goes smoothly and you guys get settled in and Aubrey loves her new place, good luck!

I will be taking care of the new baby, most likely. Things on the daycare front are still up in the air. The family that just had the baby could possibly end up pulling out, she's considering becoming a SAHM. But she does want to go ahead and go back to work to see how it goes and if she can stand to keep working. So, that's an unknown. He'll at least start coming, I assume sometime in July but we haven't talked details yet, I'm hoping to find out more when I go over and meet the new baby. In that case, I'm going to drop two of my part time kids (unfortunately the ones that belong to my good friends, but they come the least frequently so it makes sense that they'd be the first ones I drop). I'll keep on the new baby and his older sister, as well as the part time girl I have that will be 1 in July.

I'm still waiting to hear about a job though, the preschool one. I called them yesterday and the school board was meeting last night to discuss interviews... so hopefully I'll hear from them for an interview soon. I've been waiting on this one for a couple of months now, but they said they've been letting the school year die down before focusing on hiring someone new. If I get that job, I'll be working 3 days/week, which would be awesome! But I won't start until just 2 months before this baby is due, so I'm not sure how much time off they'd give me, especially considering it's part time... all details we'd have to talk about if they offer it to me. If I don't get that job, then I'll stay where I am. I'm going to see how it goes with the 3 kids I have in daycare and if I feel like I could add my own newborn to the mix. If it seems like it would be too much, then I'm going to drop the other part time kid when I have the baby and just keep the sibling set.... assuming they keep coming here.

Ugh, that is basically everything that's on my mind right now and it's a lot! I hate not knowing what's going to be happening when I have the baby, it's making it difficult to just enjoy being pregnant. There are, like, 5 different scenarios of things that could be happening and all of them are basically out of my hands at the moment. I wish the universe would just choose one for me!


----------



## justKate

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Mal85*
> 
> There are, like, 5 different scenarios of things that could be happening and all of them are basically out of my hands at the moment. I wish the universe would just choose one for me!


I feel the same way!

We resumed the 7-day sex challenge, and are on day 5. DH doesn't know what to do with himself. He's saying that he's going to get it while he can because he expects me to go into hibernation for a month afterwards. He might be right. Regardless, I think it is good for us. It seems like it's helping me work up something of a libido, which is a good thing. It's sort of weird DTD with his parents in the house (our mattress cover is crinkly), but I guess they're HIS parents, so if he doesn't care, I shouldn't be embarassed, but I sort of am. And I mean, we're married grown ups, right? And I caught his dad groping his mom when they were going up the stairs to bed last night, so I guess we're even.


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## Nillarilla

Cindy still have you and yours in my thoughts. I hope you are feeling ok.

I've been kind of MIA lately so to answer the question from a while back. No I don't have to move for my program. It's online distance. I go for an orientation at the end of August. Still totally freaking about finances. I hope the universe brings me an answer.

I'm in a wedding this weekend and it's been quite the drama. I'm also making the 4 tier cake. Plus my kids are in the wedding. So I have been incredibly busy. I've never made any cake this large before so pray for me mama's. I have to finish the baking of the layers plus do preschool running around plus go for several fittings of my dress. I have to work tommorow as I was unable to get the day off. So after my 12 hr shift I will be filling and icing the cake







. I love the bride with all my heart so in the end it will be totally worth it.

Yay for all the pottying successes.

Mal I hope you get your answer soon.


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## Mal85

I finally got the call to come interview for the preschool job! Wish me luck, ladies!


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## starling&diesel

Good luck, *Mal*!









No potty success here. E insists that she's going to start using the potty "when the baby comes." I might just take the diapers away for a few days in the summer, once we're settled into our new place.

At work today, and the baby is kicking up a storm when I turn on the sirens. Either loves it or hates it!

*Cindy* ... Thinking of you. More virtual hugs. I wish I were closer so that I could do something helpful, like take M out for a playdate or deliver a yummy (meatless!) meal to your door. Much love.


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## Vegan Princess

Thanks ladies! Starling your offer made me smile.  And Kate, your post about the sex made me chuckle - much needed! I had my D&C today. Just home a bit ago. DH of course asked the Dr. when we can start having sex again. Surprisingly, it's only 5 days. I had thought a month.

Anyway, it was lame and scary to be in the hospital. I could have done it in office but I wanted to be knocked out and not hear or feel anything. I just didn't want to know anything about it. I started freaking about anesthesia last night - afraid I wouldn't wake up for my baby girl. But it went fine. I was awake before we even got to recovery and pretty lucid. I had a bit of cramping but the advil took care of it. I did have bad cramps last night and I was afraid I would miscarry before the D&C. Thankfully the pain meds they gave me to have on hand worked really well and I managed to hold off until the procedure. I am just so relieved this part is over and now I can heal physically and emotionally.

Off to go watch one of the last Oprah's. Makenna should be home soon. Hopefully she'll let her mama rest some!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - I hope you have a quick recover. I'm glad everything went smoothly. I'm keeping you in my thoughts and sending you lots of hugs!

Mal - Good luck with your interview!! Woohoo!

Nilla - That's great that you can do your program from home! Can you get OSAP? That's what I'll be living off of next year 

Good luck with all your wedding prep!

Kate - lol! I would feel awkward about a crinkly mattress cover too! Good luck with your move!!!

I am R-free for the long weekend!! I'm visiting my mom right now but then I'm leaving Saturday morning and R is staying until Monday. I don't have any super exciting plans, just visiting with friends, maybe going out one night. We'll see!


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## Mal85

Well we had an exciting afternoon... Owyn's face is officially covered in battle wounds. Over the weekend DH injured her. He tossed her up in the air to tickle her and didn't realize he was standing under a low archway at the time. He hit her on the forehead just above her eye when he tossed her up. She bled a little, freaked out for a few minutes and now has a black eye to show for it.

So, there's that. Then today, I went into the bathroom to empty out the potty seat in the toilet, heard her fall and start crying. I headed to give her hugs and found her gushing blood from her forehead. It appears she hit her head on the edge of our stereo speaker that sits on the floor. I've never seen her bleed so much in her life, it was kind of scary. I cleaned it off, found where she hit and it was a pretty deep gash on her forehead. So, we took her into the doc and they super glued her back together and put steri strips over it. She was such a big girl at the doctor. They gave her a lollipop, which made everything better in her world. She laid down still while they glued her forehead, just kept squeezing my hand making sure I didn't go anywhere. She seems to be doing alright, she took a long nap when we got back from the doctor and woke up complaining that it hurt. So, I gave her some ibuprofen and she's being her usual self now. I'm just hoping she doesn't try to take the steri strips off. We have it covered with a band aid right now, so hopefully if she pulls anything off it'll be the band aid.


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## Thursday Girl

cindy, I am so sorry for your loss.

mal- heads wounds are scary, they bleed a LOT, just the nature of the wound.

I have been crazy busy, so busy I think 5-8 days ago was 2 days ago. will be around eventually.


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy: hope you are feeling OK. I'm glad that everything went smoothly with the D&C. Big Hugs Mama.

Mal: That would freak me out! Glad she is ok! She is such a brave girl to be still through that!

Well DH left Tuesday for his 3.5 week trip. Sigh. It always takes me a bit to get into my groove when he leaves for these trips. It's been cold and rainy which isn't helping my mood. I've been able to chat with him on the phone in the evenings though because they haven't left Dutch Harbor yet. Maybe tomorrow if the weather cooperates. Then we'll be email only for the rest of the trip. Fiona talks about Papa being on the boat. Hoping the weeks fly by for us. It's hard not having any break at all. Today she took a late and long nap but I didn't want to wake her because it's my only time to myself. We'll be up late tonight but it was worth it! It's 9:30 now and she's busy with playdough. 

A friend called and offered me her double BOB stroller since her kids have outgrown it. Yes please! Such a score. That was the only big ticket item on our list and its so nice that we don't have to worry about it. We need to replace the windows in the house and are hoping to also pull off new kitchen counters. Not needing to spring $600 for a new stroller will really help! I'm so grateful. She is our doula and I used to watch her kids last year. I'm going to go pick it up this weekend because her husband is in "clean out the shed" mode! Glad to help out!

We've continued to have potty success (and misses!). Yesterday she took herself for the first time. I was so excited. She is really loving adding a sticker to her chart when she goes. It seems she's really caught on to feeling when she needs to go. If she is wearing a diaper or often her underwear she'll just go. If she's naked she'll either use the potty or ask for a diaper. I can usually persuade her to use the potty instead of putting a diaper on by bribing her with the promise of a sticker if she goes in the potty. Sometimes she insists on the diaper though and I don't want to push it. The other day she told me, "I just need a new fresh diaper Mama. I just can't be nakey all the time." Noted!

Fiona is also showing her sense of style these days. She insists of wearing mismatched socks. It cracks me up. I'll grab a matched pair out of the drawer and she'll go grab another pair and make sure she has one of each. So cute to see her put together her own style! Such a diva!


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## mckittre

Cindy - sending healing thoughts your way.

AK - the socks thing is funny. I did the same thing throughout much of childhood/teenagerhood - refused to wear matching socks. Katmai could care less about what he's wearing and has never shown any particular interest in any clothing item - except rubber boots. He likes those because he can put them on himself.

Mal - good luck on the job! Katmai's never had any major wounds, but is always covered in little scratches and bumps these days. I guess he just moves faster than he used to.

I just got a double bike trailer! It was a present from my dad. Freedom! I can and do wear both kids at once, but it is getting to be more of a chore with 40 pounds of kids taking up most of my body surface. Although jumping on a creaky old un-tuned un-oiled bike to go 2 miles up a steep gravel road, pulling two kids, not having been on a bike since last summer, was not the easiest thing either. But I'm super excited to be able to more easily cart both of them around as they grow.


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## Mal85

Well, ladies I couldn't stand it. Saw my sister-in-law last night and she asked if I was going to come visit her at work today to get another look at the baby. Being 16 weeks tomorrow, I couldn't say no! We found out at 16 weeks with Owyn. For a while it didn't look like we were going to get a good look, baby was VERY active and wouldn't be still long enough for us to see anything. Although it was fun seeing it move around so much and I could feel a lot of it, the most movement I've felt yet!

Just when she was about to give up and a big maybe guess based on lack of obvious boy parts... we finally got a crotch shot and could clearly see three lines. Another *GIRL*! I'm shocked! I really thought boy. I'm not really disappointed like I thought I'd be, but definitely surprised! DH is a little bummed, he really wanted a boy, but he'll come around, as much as he adores Owyn I know he will this one too. We're saying we're about 90% sure, my official ultrasound is in about month so we'll know even better then. But I saw three lines pretty clearly, so I'm feeling pretty confident in that.


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## starling&diesel

A girl, *Mal*! That's exciting news! Congratulations! Do you and DH plan on having more kids? And how are Owyn's owies? Is she healing well?

*mckittre* ... I love my bike trailer. Esmé and the dog go in there, and we toodle around quite happily. Only, now my belly is getting in the way. Have fun with it!

*Cindy* ... How are you feeling, hon?

*Sue* ... That is a serious score. Those cost BIG BUCKS! Way to go!

*AFM*: Our ultrasound is on Tuesday. We're leaning towards finding out now! I'll keep you lovelies posted! Still barfing. But it's becoming a way of life, so I'm getting pretty used to it. I'd still like it to stop though!


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## Vegan Princess

I'm hanging in there, thanks for asking. Physically I feel decent. A bit of cramping and something just feels "off" in there. Plus I am SO bloated. Not sure when this belly will go away and also I think my system is screwed up from the meds and whatever they did. But hopefully that will be gone soon. Emotionally I'm a bit all over. I'm just really struggling with finding time for myself to grieve. I had 2 hours alone in bed after the procedure on Wednesday and that is all. DH went out with a friend tonight and when he left before M went to bed I started crying. I had been looking forward to watching our show and maybe finally having some wine or at least some time to unwind and instead I got to sit in bed and wait for M to fall asleep until after 10. And I hate to say it but I yelled at her to go to sleep a couple times. Now I feel awful about that too. I just don't know how to get any time to myself! DH is supposed to be building our chicken coop this weekend so I can't get any time to myself during the day either.

Starling: I'm excited to find out what you're having!!

Mal: Yay for another daughter! I am hoping I'll have another.

We asked for chromosome testing of the fetus. I suppose that means they will tell me the sex. I am afraid to know though - like it will make it too real.


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## mckittre

Mal - congratulations!

Cindy - That sounds hard. Could M "help" your husband build the chicken coop while you took some more time to yourself?

Starling - It's easy to take the opportunity to find out when you have it, but I really loved having that surprise at birth with mine. Also that left the name hanging until the end too (I had 2 picked out), which was nice - to greet the baby and really give them a name right at birth.


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## AKislandgirl

*Cindy:* I wish I could come over and take M for the day. I'm so sorry you can't get any time to yourself like you need.

*Starling:* So excited to hear what you are having! We went into birth with two names too even though we knew we were having a girl. Once we saw her we knew for sure she was Fiona.

Did your family already move into the co-op housing or is that still coming up?

*Mal:* Congrats on the GIRL!  I'm having fun thinking about my girls growing up and their relationship as sisters. I'm really close to one of my sisters.

*Kate:* How are you holding up with the move? What is your new place like?

We are hanging in there with DH gone. I'm terrible about getting a good dinner made and often buy takeout. Sigh. But last night I managed to get a bunch of chores done around the house and make a homemade gluten free pizza for dinner. Lots of spinach and pesto. It was so good! Our annual crab festival starts this week (Wednesday I think) which involves the carnies coming to town with rides and tons of food booths. I know we'll eat there several times! I'll have to forgo my favorite treat... fried bread because I can't eat that in front of Fiona without giving her some. That would be too cruel. Since I don't really have any milk left these days I've been indulging in gluten! Mmm. Makes me happy and Fiona is none the worse for wear. At some point this summer we are thinking of doing a trial with her and seeing if she's outgrown the allergy. It would be fantastic if she did!

Our weather has been terrible all week. Rainy, windy and about 40 degrees. We played in the greenhouse yesterday which felt really good!


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## Blessed_Mom

AKislandgirl,

How would you test to see if your daughter has outgrown her gluten allergy? Does she have immediate obvious symptoms?

My daughter's only symptom (yes oneand only) was her inability to gain weight. This was so so difficult to figure out. But once we took gluten out she started gaining some weight. She still is puny (25.5 pounds at 24 months) but she gained some and got back on the curve (after being off it for so many months).

Thanks,


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## Blessed_Mom

I have another question for you ladies - Please.

My daughter is 2 yrs this month and my periods have not returned yet. We want to start TTC soon (real soon) and I don't know what to do about it? Are there any remedies ? Anybody else in the same situation?

Thanks.


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## Vegan Princess

Blessedmom: My little one is around 25-26 lbs at almost 28 months. I don't consider her puny.  As for the period - I assume you are still nursing? Some moms bodies are just super sensitive. I have a friend who was desperate to conceive and hadn't gotten her period back, even though her son was over 2. Once she made the decision to wean, she was pregnant within a few months. Maybe not the answer you are looking for. How often do you nurse? Could you cut down a bit to encourage your period to come back?

Well I didn't get any time to myself today, save for staying in bed until 10 (my day to sleep in - milked it for all I could). But I did enjoy watching DH build the coop and watching M play in the yard with her water table and in her pool (it was probably around 70 today). She even pooped in her potty while it was inside the new coop. LOL. So it was a pleasant day. DH has been talking to M about her helping him build the coop for a while - but really there is no way DH would have let me leave him alone with her for too long while he was using power saws and drills. He did let her help paint it yellow.  It's almost done. I'm actually quite impressed. I'll post some pics once it's all done.

Kate: Hoping the move isn't too terrible!!


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## Mal85

I just had to come and brag on Owyn for a second, she is doing SO well with this potty learning thing! We made the leap several days ago to put her in underwear/naked at home, pull ups when we go out, diaper at bedtime. She is only have 1 or 2 accidents a day! The first couple of days, she did ask for her diapers and I felt kind of bad taking them away cold turkey like that. But now she loves wearing her "big-girl panties". She almost always wants to try and potty every time I take her, and often goes. We've only caught a few poops, she tends to poop first thing in the morning before her night-time diaper comes off, so those are hard to catch. But I'd say most of the time she is peeing on the potty, even when we're out of the house! I hope his continues!

Oh and Owyn had her first tornado experience today! We live in the midwest so it's not totally uncommon, but it was a first for Owyn. And during a birthday party we were at the park for. The funnel cloud went just past us as the sirens went off and we all had to rush over to our friend's house with a basement. It ended up passing us by, but it was pretty exciting for a little while. Owyn was very confused the whole time and the sirens worried her. I totally understood how she felt, my heart was pounding for a little while too.


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## Mal85

Oh and to answer Starling's question... another baby is up for debate at this point. DH wants to be done after this one and would really like to go get the big V after I have the baby, but I'm only 25 and not ready to close this chapter of my life yet. It's possible we'd be done, but I'm not committing to that just yet. I have thrown out the idea that I could get an IUD, at least that's some form of longer-term birth control but we can still change our minds and have another if we want to. That's most likely what will happen for now.


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## Blessed_Mom

Yes I am nursing but am barely making drops. She nurses to sleep. So a nap (sometimes 2) and nurses to sleep in the night. Oh - and wakes up once in the middle of the night for the fewest of sucks and sleeps again. So 2-4 times a day.

Isn't there ANY OTHER WAY other than to wean? Anything?


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## Vegan Princess

I hate to say it but I personally am not aware of any other way. I spent MANY months hanging out on the trying to concieve while nursing threads on here and on another forum. You are not alone in your wish for AF. There just doesn't seem to be much choice other than to be patient and wait or to wean. I'm not telling you to wean by any means. You never know - she could be on her way any day without you doing anything. Or not. Oh and unfortunately, I don't know that it has to do with how much milk you make. I think it's more the act of sucking. I had a low milk supply and made very very little by the end and it still was enough to throw my cycles out of whack, even nursing a couple times/day.


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blessed_Mom*
> 
> AKislandgirl,
> 
> How would you test to see if your daughter has outgrown her gluten allergy? Does she have immediate obvious symptoms?
> 
> My daughter's only symptom (yes oneand only) was her inability to gain weight. This was so so difficult to figure out. But once we took gluten out she started gaining some weight. She still is puny (25.5 pounds at 24 months) but she gained some and got back on the curve (after being off it for so many months).
> 
> Thanks,


Well DD wasn't gaining well either and still is pretty tiny. Getting her off gluten certainly helped her gain and I'd say she is a more "normal" weight now. She's between 23-24 pounds which is wonderful for her! It's her own curve we watch. Her other major symptom has been with her skin. That was the big red flag for us. She had terrible rashes on her face and occasionally a diaper rash as well. In the past when she's gotten gluten accidental her skin would flare up right away. We are fairly certain that the same would happen if we do a trial. We'll just have to see.


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## mckittre

Cindy - I'd love to see pics of the chicken coop. Always vaguely interested in chickens, but not so much in trying to set something up to protect them.

Mal - Yay for pottying! With Katmai, I feel almost like we have another dog. Pants-less in the yurt works OK, but we've been letting him go pants-less in the yard, and somehow he always manages to sneak off somewhere and poop without us noticing (until we notice his dirty bottom and quiz him on where he pooped!).

AK and BlessedMom - interesting to hear you guys talking about gluten intolerance making your kids small. Katmai is tiny too (maybe not quite 25lb at 27 months), and hovers around the 5th% for weight (similar for height). But our doctor's never said a thing about it, and I always assumed that someone has to be on that bottom end. Our family is generally free of food allergies and he doesn't have eczema or anything either (though Lituya does and I did). I do vaguely wonder sometimes if I'm missing something, seeing him so much littler than other kids his age.


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Yay for another girl!! So I guess so far I'm only 50/50 for making gender guesses  Dealing with tornadoes sounds scary! I'm glad we don't have those here!

Starling - I'm excited to find out what you will be having!!!

Kate - How did the move go? Hope you are getting settled 

Cindy - I hope you are healing well. I'm still thinking of you 

Royce spent 2 nights with Grandma this weekend. I'm at my moms right now but they have gone out somewhere so I haven't seen him yet. I miss him and I hope he gets back soon!! My mom did call me the first night because he was so upset, he was overtired, but my mom thought it might help him calm down to talk to me. But I made it worse. He just kept crying to me about he wanted to see me and he wanted num num. I felt so bad. I called my mom the next morning and she said he was asleep within minutes of getting off the phone. I do like my weekends 'off' though. My mom will be watching him at the end of June too, I have a white water rafting trip planned!


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## starling&diesel

It's a ....

*BOY!!!*

DP is shocked and owes me, my mom and my sister's gf fifty bucks each. The little one was super shy and only wanted to show us his spine and bum and back of his head, but then after I got up and walked around a bit, he flipped so the tech could finish getting her measurements and determine that he is a boy. A boy! What do you do with a boy? I'll be leaning on you big time, Ever! Anyway, he looks healthy to me, so we'll wait to get any other results at our mw appointment next week. A boy! So exciting! Esmé is thrilled, especially because her little best friend is also having a boy.


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## mckittre

Congratulations Starling! (I was beginning to think that Katmai and R were going to be totally outnumbered).


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## Vegan Princess

Oh wow Starling!!! I knew it!! How crazy exciting!!!

UGH! I am livid right now! My OB just called to say the lab did night find any placental or fetal tissue in the specimen she sent after my D&C! Both my ultrasounds last Monday showed a baby that stopped growing at 8 weeks 3 days - so there definitely was one. So either I passed it on my own beforehand or it's still in there!!!!!! I was bleeding before but not much and I didn't pass any clots or anything really. So I am super afraid she missed it! I go in on Thursday for an ultrasound. Going through that again is just going to be too much to handle!!! Please pray that she got it and somehow didn't send it to the lab. Which is another issue - bc then we cant' have it tested. UGH!!!


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy! OMG, that is crazy. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this!

Starling! You were right! A boy! How exciting. I knew you'd cave and find out!







I just checked in here this afternoon to see if you had posted anything.

AFM: We are hanging in there with DH gone. I have so much respect for you Everrgreen! I can't imagine going through this solo all the time. It is such hard work. I'm glad you got a weekend to yourself. You SOOOO deserve it! DH actually called today from the boat which was a big surprise. It was a terrible connection and broke up very quickly but it was great to hear his voice even for just a couple of minutes. He is going to try again tomorrow since they will be closer to land and hopefully it will work a bit better.

I cope with him being gone by buying stuff. Terrible I know but really in real life I'm not much of a spender. I pretty much save it all up for when he goes out to sea! At least he's used it it and is getting paid mega overtime. My big spending has been on a new woven wrap. This beauty right here! I've pretty much fallen in love with those colors so I'm pretty excited to get it and try it out. It is meant for the babe, but Fiona will help me out in testing it I'm sure. My other purchases have been longies... not one pair, 3 pairs!







OK, spending party over! Good grief I'm such a sucker for baby things.

Fiona has been rocking out on potty training! We are in the stage that many of you have talked about... doing great while naked, accidents in underwear. I still put her in a diaper for sleeping and for leaving the house. Just yesterday and today she has begun to take herself potty and then come get me to show me. I'm really proud of her since we've really only been at it for a week. I declared today a home day in part to catch up on chores but also to keep up the momentum and have her naked all day. Not sure how to help her keep her undies dry though.

I'm so tired today and need a nap... Fiona is resisting the idea so we will try again in half an hour. Sometimes when DH is gone I find the late nap is worth it so I can rest too. It will mean a late bedtime but I've just decided to let it go. Whatever! I'm beginning to lose my energy again which I was so happy to get back after the 1st trimester. maybe once I can get a break I won't feel so tired.


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Oh no! I'm so sorry you are having to go through more. I am keeping you in my thoughts and hoping you don't have to have any more procedures done. *hugs*

Starling - Yay a BOY!! Boys are awesome  My boy just now called 'mommy!' and when I looked he farted really loud and laughed. Oh dear.. I guess girls do that too, maybe? But he is also the sweetest most cuddly little thing ever. I could totally have another one just like him <3 Congratulations!!

AK - Yep doing it on your own sucks! My main survival technique involves going online and ignoring R, eventually he finds something else to do  Toddlers are hard work! I imagine Fiona is probably missing daddy too. Getting out of the house and staying busy also helps. I think the hardest part is going an entire day without talking to another adult, so I try and get out as much as possible. Oh, and I love the wrap! Will Fiona be okay sharing that? 

Pottying is going amazing here. Royce hasn't peed in a diaper in over a week. He hasn't had any accidents in over a week when he's with me. But he did have one with my mom over the weekend and a couple others with her last week when I wasn't in the room. He even stayed dry for two 3-hour car rides. He still needs my help for pulling his pants up and down. I'm not sure at what age he'll be able to do that? And bum-wiping too of course, but I've read here on mdc about kids age 5 still needing help with that. I will probably continue putting a diaper on him for long car rides for a while longer. He is diaper free the rest of the time though - including nights and outings (I keep a potty in the car, he's not sure about regular toilets yet)


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## Mal85

Starling: Yay for a boy!!! I'm sure he'll keep you on and your DP on your toes to make up for what a calm chick E has been, haha!

Cindy: Wow, you just can't catch a break with this can you? I'm so sorry you're still dealing with it. I hope you get some answers.

The potty thing is still going pretty well here. Yesterday wasn't a great day for her, but that was partially my fault. She refused to use the potty in the morning, then I put a pull up on her while we went out and ran some errands, didn't get back until just before nap time. She wouldn't sit on the potty again and had a diaper on during nap time... so there went most of our day for the potty. Today, she's totally made up for it. She hasn't had one accident so far. She even woke up dry from her nap and asked to go potty. Then tonight while I was making dinner she wandered into the bathroom and sat on the big toilet by herself and went potty, didn't even tell me she was going! I didn't know until I found her trying to wipe herself. She puts the lid and seat up when she wants to sit on the big toilet, so I'm shocked she didn't fall in.

We have more yucky weather heading our way tonight. We're in the midwest so this nasty storm system is hanging around. So far, we are only under a slight risk for tornadoes, sounds like we'll get more wind and hail than that though and I'm hoping it stays that way! The storms should be here around dusk and I'm hoping they weaken before they get here, OK is getting hit pretty bad and that's the storm that's headed our way. I think I'll go take some supplies down to our basement just case we end up spending the night down there.


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... Oh good grief! What an ordeal. I am so sorry that you have to deal with this on top of everything else. What a hard time you've had. Many, many hugs.

*Mal* ... I'm scared that this boy will be a handful! I'm so used to sitting on a bench at the park while E wanders around being delightful and peaceful and never doing anything that would cause her harm. I just won' t know how to keep up with a rambunctious kid! We were just over playing at our new co-op (we move June 4th) and I was watching the boys whack each other and race around yelling and I had a little panic attack. But I also know so many lovely, mellow little boys too. We'll see! I'm so delighted to raise a boy! It'll be a blast!

*Mal* ... I've been thinking about you while all this stormy weather goes on. Stay safe!

*Mckittre* ... You and Ever will be my on-line go-to mamas for all things boy! I have NO CLUE how to deal with penises, for example.

*Sue* ... I LOVE THAT WRAP! How much will it be once shipping and everything is included? That site had the most delicious stuff! I'm on the look out for a woven wrap. I'd like to get it soon, so that I can start tying it above my bump. The ergo still feels good, so long as I have it low around my hips and well away from baby. That's awesome that you got to talk to DH, even if it was a bit of a fuzzy conversation. Hope you get a clearer connection next time!


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## AKislandgirl

Starling: You can get girasols online in the US (probably Canada too) but I learned that certain patterns are exclusive of various vendors. I fell in love with the earthy rainbow color and decided I had to have it. I poked around on FSOT and didn't see what I wanted so just sent an email to this vendor. They are the only ones who sell earthy rainbow. Anyway for a 4.6 it will be 84.64 Eur shipped by economy (3-5 weeks) or 95.77 Eur priority (2 weeks) which is roughly $120 or $135 us dollars. If you want fringe (I don't, seems like that could get annoying) it is 1.65 Eur more. When I was looking at used girasols in other colors people were asking around $115 on average so it was a no brainer to go this way. I don't have the patience to search and stalk FSOT for a better deal.

Mal: Hope you don't end up sleeping in the basement! Yikes!

Everrgreen: How long did it take R to figure out not peeing in his underwear? I'm torn between how to go about this... go nakey for more success right now or use underwear more often and hope it kicks in soon and then we are done? Any thoughts Mama's?

Every email I send to DH on the boat contains updates on if Fiona peed and pooped in the potty! Ha! Just what he want to hear I'm sure. I'm hoping it helps him feel more connected to us because its the main thing in our lives right now!  Such is the life!


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## Vegan Princess

Well I am feeling a bit calmer. I spoke to the dr again and she said my uterus felt small and like nothing was left after the procedure and she doubts there was anything left. She said perhaps it had degraded enough before it came out that the lab didnt recognize it as fetal tissue. So I will at least try and stay calm until Thursday.

You crack me up Starling! I'm scared of a boy too. LOL. But you will do great! 

What are the benefits of a woven wrap versus a cotton one, other than heat? The ties they did in the pics of the one Sue orderded were unlike any I ever did with my wrap. But I didn't know how to do much with it. And that is a beautiful wrap!!

I am feeling more jovial now too because Makenna has peed in the potty twice since waking up from her nap. Big, real pees. And once was all on her own (with my suggestion that when she did go again she could have some of her easter chocolate). But she ran off and did it and came to get me to see. Let's hope our progress continues as well as the rest of you!

I bought a little people farm off of craigslist today. I've been wanting to get one for a long time. We went to a play space yesterday and M was playing so nicely with the farm animal figures - and she kissed each one goodbye when it was time to go. I think this was a good buy! It was a sad reminder that I have no idea how to use my imagination though once she asked me to play it with her. Eeck.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

I'm so glad that you're starting to feel a little better, *Cindy*. Hallelujah for that.

And now for some extreme cuteness! Here is E 'reading' one of her library books. That's my sister in the background. Sorry the video is skinny. I'm just learning to use my iphone and didn't realize that I should've had it turned sideways. Doh!


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - I'm glad you've got some good news about things. So Thursday you will know for sure?

As for wraps: woven wraps can be cotton, or linen, or wool but they aren't stretchy (and therefore offer more support for heavier babies and a snugger carry for back-carries). I read so much stuff about all the different types when I was buying. There is a really awesome thread around here somewhere that gives an overview. I will see if I can find it for you  My wrap is a cotton/linen blend which makes it a bit cooler but it is also a bit 'thicker' sort of then a plain cotton. I like it though!

AK - R was peeing on the potty while naked about 100% when I put him in underwear (actually boxers or just pants/shorts). That was just over 2 weeks ago, I think? And he is now just about back to 100% It was a lot more work at first bc I was having to constantly remind him and I had to go with him every time (I still have to go with him, but I don't remind him that much anymore). When he was naked he was going on his own. I'm not sure if it's better to skip to wearing underwear sooner or not. Like most things it probably depends on the kid!


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## Vegan Princess

I love the video Starling! Reminds me that it's been ages since I've posted a pic of Makenna. I just uploaded some last night so I'll do that later today.

M peed in the potty 3 times last night and once this morning. She's camped out on it waiting for the morning poop to come. I'm off to shower - and hoping no potty catastrophe strikes while I'm in there. LOL. I'm not sure what to do about going out. Should I buy pullups for going out? Should I bring the potty to her little playgroup? It's more formal than at someone's house. Might be wierd for her to be naked there. She can't manage to get big girl panties up and down yet.

Cindy


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## Mal85

We use pull ups when going out. She thinks they're panties and I'm being stubborn about only using diapers when she's sleeping. She actually treats the pull ups just like underwear, but I'm sure it's different for different kids.

This morning, she was standing on the toilet seat watching me get ready and did the potty dance saying "I pee! I pee!" She did pee a little in her morning diaper, but most of it made it to the toilet. I'm really shocked at how well she's doing with this!


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## AKislandgirl

Loved the video Starling! Toddler voices are my favorite!

Fiona had a crummy nights sleep and has woken up sick this morning. Another cold. I shouldn't be surprised... Crab Fest starts tomorrow and she has now been sick for it 3 years in a row. Such a bummer!

Summer vacation officially starts here tomorrow. Today is the last day of school for all the kids. I remember how exciting that used to be! I have my daycare girl for a total of 5 more days while her mom who is a teacher wraps some things up for the year and then I'm done with childcare! I'm really excited about that!

I think we'll stick to being naked at home for a bit longer to rack up the successes. Then we'll see if we can get better with the underwear. Seems like a good plan! Except she just ran and put underwear on as I typed this! Ha!


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## Everrgreen

Here's the wrap overview I was talking about: Post 4: http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/674892/overwhelmed-with-wrap-choices-help

Starling - My internet is too slow to watch your video  I'll have to watch it the next time I'm at my moms!

AK - Sounds like a good plan! It worked for me anyway  And yay for only 5 more days of daycare!! Hopefully you won't find it too boring with just 1 toddler to watch ;o)

Oh, and I hope Fiona gets better for the festival - health vibes for her ~~~


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## mckittre

Pottying - Everr or anyone else, I would absolutely love to hear how to successfully transition to underwear. Katmai's had the naked thing down for months mostly (with ups and downs), but I'm absolutely stumped on how to progress. I try to put on underwear or pants, and try to remind him about pottying, but it takes less than a day for him to wet or soil nearly every pair of underwear or pants we own, so then it's back to naked until we can do laundry again. I'd like to stick to it until he gets it, but I don't have enough clothes to find out if he'd ever get it, and I can't possibly take him out of the house like that. I feel very discouraged about the whole thing.

Cindy - glad you're feeling a little better. Hope you get some answers soon.

Starling - very cute video! Katmai wants to make his own now, so maybe I'll post one later. 
Don't worry, boys are easy and fun. And so far I have two easy children, so it is actually possible.

AK - Hope Fiona feels better soon. School is over here this week too, and there's a chainsaw carving contest, human-powered fishing derby, and all kinds of events this weekend. That's a pretty wrap! I'm sure Fiona won't mind sharing. Katmai happily shares our 3 wraps with his sister.

Husband just flew out for fieldwork this morning, and I'm all alone with both kids for the first time (for 5 days). A bit nervous about it.


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## Everrgreen

mckittre - R did have quite a few accidents at first. When he would pee (or poo - yuck!) in his shorts I would make it a negative thing (I'm not sure if this is mdc-approved ), but I would say 'ew that's yucky!' 'we don't pee in our shorts!' and then I would take him to the potty and tell him to 'try and go in the potty'. Usually he wouldn't (bc he'd already peed). And I will admit that there were times I was geniunely annoyed and I didn't hide my emotions. When I put on a clean pair I would say 'remember, don't pee in your shorts! Use the potty!' R really does not like anything 'yucky' so I used that to my advantage. He is also sort of eager to please in a way, he loves to 'try' and he loves when he remembers the rules, he's always reminding me of things ('be careful!' 'don't touch!' etc etc.)

Honestly, I feel like pottying came way too easy for us so I *know* I just got lucky. And I really don't have any awesome advice 

Starling - I left your video up to load and I finally got to watch it! E is sooo sweet!

I'm going to see if I can get a video of R to share too!


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## Mal85

We spent 2 hours in my basement this afternoon. Started seeing tornado warnings for my area while we were eating lunch, so we ate in a hurry, got clean diapers on everyone and snacks loaded up downstairs and waited to see what would happen. My friend and her son came over since they don't have a basement and DH was here for lunch when the sirens went off. He had to go back to work though once he made sure we got downstairs okay, he works for the city so they were out storm watching. Poor Owyn was already traumatized by Sunday's events and started freaking out when she heard the sirens. She wouldn't leave my lap the whole time we were down there. Sirens went off 3 or 4 different times and I've heard a tornado touched down just south of town and skirted the edge of town before lifting and heading north. I haven't heard about any damage here, but a town about an hour east of us got hit pretty good. Lost their new high school and lots of damage to homes there.

It didn't help that all this happened during naptime, so all the kids were cranky and tired and scared. I was glad to have an extra adult here to help me though, I don't handle these storms well, I'm crazy paranoid about them so it's hard for me to keep a calm face for the kids. I managed though. There are still a few thunderstorms popping up around here, but so far they've lifted the tornado watch. I hope it stays away from now on, I've had enough with this storm season, I'm ready to move to the pacific northwest!


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## starling&diesel

Oh, *Mal* ... That sounds so scary! If you move this way though you might end up having to deal with earthquakes and tsunamis! How about New Mexico? Does anything weather-wild happen there?

*Sue* ... That sucks that Fi is under the weather for the 3rd crabfest in a row. Many healing vibes to her!

*Ever* ... I'm going to go check out that wrap link. Thanks!

*Cindy* ... Let's see M in all her glory!


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## Vegan Princess

Sorry double post, trying to fix links.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: How scary! I wouldn't deal well with that either! We do have earthquakes and apparently tsunami warnings here but it's been a while since there was a "big" quake in the bay area. But that doesn't mean one can't strike any time. At least you can go in your basement and get a little warning! Hope all is calm now.

Sue: Sorry about the sicky!

Erin: Can your mom help our at all while DH is gone? I'm sure you'll do great! 

So I brought M to playgroup in panties and pants. She stayed dry in the car but peed her pants about 10 minutes into playing. She wanted to stay naked on the bottom so that's what we did. I was so paranoid about her peeing on the floor there though. i kept asking her a million times if she had to go. Plus she hadn't pooped yet so I was scared about that. We put big girl panties back on for the ride home and she stayed dry. I put her in a diaper for nap and she actually stayed dry, despite only peeing her pants a few hours early and then not going again. Since waking up, she's peed and pooped on the potty! I think I will buy pullups later today for going out - but I'd like to not use them for too long since I think it reinforces that she needs to use the potty when she ends up all wet. We'll see. Hopefully she'll keep this up!

Here are some pics. I realized how much they've grown since we posted pics! Halloween maybe? Feel free to post some of your own kiddos!

Dressed up by cousins

Face

In a dress


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## starling&diesel

Awesome pics, *Cindy*!!! Gorgeous hair!

I'm dropping in to happily announce that we have made some potty progress! Lots of naked-bottom time, and a roll of TP that i wrote her name on and told her she could use when she went pee or poo in the potty. And she did! Only issue is that now she wants to be nakey-bum all the time. Might be a lot of commando time under skirts this summer! I am just SO RELIEVED that she might be out of diapers by the time her little brother (







) is born. Hallelujah for that! I think peer pressure is getting to her. She has several older friends so use the potty exclusively (think 3-7 yr olds) so she wants to be like them. Yay!


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## Vegan Princess

Yay Starling!! I never thought we'd make progress any time soon either and we have too! Today was an interesting day. LOL. She had a poop accident this morning. It turned into a HUGE disaster! So she pooped on the floor, but then more was coming so she sat on the toilet and did the rest. But it was all gooey and stuck to her bottom. So after I cleaned up the poop from the floor, she stood up and before I could see her, touched her butt! And wiped it all over her naked leg and on her pajama shirt! Then I noticed that the poop that stuck to her bottom fell on the floor too. So I wiped that but left the paper on the floor bc I was trying to keep her from getting poop on anything else - so then she stepped in the glob! It was crazy. Needless to say, I had some mopping and bathing to do! We spent a lot of time out of the house today. She sat on her potty in the back of the car (yay for an SUV) a few times, but never went. While I was at the dr, she got all panicky and I RAN her to the bathroom and we got there just in time for poop to fall into the potty (with a little skidmark in her panties). Then she peed her panties a little while I was still talking to the dr. But other than that, it's all gone in the potty and no other accidents, even with being out so much.

So I saw the dr today. She did an exam and ultrasound and concluded that there is nothing left inside me. Phew! She said the tissue must have degraded enough that the lab couldn't find villi. Also, she gave me the prescription for the fertility drug I want to try and said I only need to wait until I get 1 period to take it. The specialist said 2 months and I had thought I'd have to see him to get the drug. So I am very happy to get to start trying again a month earlier! Now I just need my period to come back. I'm guessing that'll be between 3 and 5 weeks.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Yay Starling! It's amazing when it clicks for them. Once Owyn put it together, we dove in and went straight to underwear and she has done great! We tried underwear on an outing tonight, over to our friend's house. She kept asking to go potty and did potty twice, but I think she just wanted to flush their toilet, they have a cooler flusher than ours is. But she also kept acting like she needed to poop, but didn't anymore by the time we made it to the toilet. As soon as I put a pull up on her with her PJs, she pooped in it. So, I have the feeling she's holding it when she is naked/in underwear. Not sure how to teach her it's okay to poop on the toilet too.

I'm glad you got some answers Cindy and really hope the medicine works for you!

I've been feeling the baby move more lately, a few times a day. Still not very often, but the movements are getting noticeably bigger, so that's pretty cool. I bought Owyn a Berenstain Bear book about getting a new baby and she loooooves it. It's all she wants me to read and she's not usually that into books. I think we'll need to invest in more Berestain Bear books, I loved them when I was a kid too so it's fun to read them again!


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy, love the pictures! I'm so glad that you got some answers today and that you get to try the drug you were wanting. I hope it works for you!

Starling: Awesome news on the potty progress. I too can see the light and am so happy to think about Fiona being out of diapers by the time her sister arrives!

We've been having great progress in potty land. While naked she takes herself pee or poop and is so proud of herself. She also lets me know when she is in her underwear so I can help her! Woo Hoo. Some times she just really wants to wear underwear so I've just been going with it. I've still not tackled any out of the house without diapers and she wears a diaper to bed. Half the time its dry in the morning so we'll see how long it takes to get there. Also at home she used a little potty rather then the big potty. I think I need to help her get used to the big potty at home more so we can tackle going out of the house. She didn't have any accidents today but did go in her diaper while we were out of the house for a bit. So Cindy, if she goes in the potty in the back of the car... what do you do with the contents?

We got to talk to DH today! It was only for about 5 minutes and there are weird pauses but it was so great to hear his voice! Made my day! Fiona was so happy too!

Here is a picture of her from Easter...


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## Everrgreen

I love hearing all the potty successes!

Cindy - OMG, I had a poop situation sort of like yours (not nearly as bad though!) but it required R to just get thrown in the tub lol! Pottying can be such a mess sometimes!

Also, I'm glad to hear you can move on and start trying again! You must be relieved!

Love the pics! So cute!

Mal - Will she go poop on a potty at all? Or is it just regular toilets she won't poop on? I read somewhere that it is very hard to poop if your legs are dangling, so maybe she needs a smaller potty or a stool for her feet? Maybe it's also worth having a few floor poops just to get her used to the idea of NOT pooping in a diaper? Just some random ideas 

AK - It would be easier if R would use a regular toilet, but he won't. I don't mind bringing the potty around though, I have 4 of the cheap Ikea ones so they travel well and I leave one in the car all the time. As for the contents, umm, I've dumped it in the parking lot. It's just pee of course. Shhhh don't tell 

Love the pic too! R just asked 'who this?' and I answered 'Fiona' and he pointed and said 'Fina'


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## Mal85

Ever: She pooped on her potty chair once. I just happened to catch her in the act and put her on the seat as it fell out of her. Another time she started to go on the potty chair but only got a little out and finished on the floor. Those were both a couple of weeks ago, now she won't do it on the toilet or the potty chair. I don't know why, she didn't seem weirded out by going on the potty chair when it happened. She has a well-child check this afternoon, so I thought I'd ask the doctor and see if he has any suggestions. Probably not, but it's worth a shot.

It is exciting to hear all the kiddos are moving along with potty learning! They are getting so big, way too fast! With the new one on the way, I am reminiscing about when Owyn was born and thinking about all of your babies too and how exciting it was to share that with all of you. So exciting to be going through it a second time with some of you again!

Sue, I just realized the other day that Fiona and Owyn are exactly one month apart and you're due with #2 almost exactly a month before I'm due with this one. And it looks like we're both having girls again, pretty cool the way that worked out!

Here's a pic to share of Owyn on Easter. I can't figure out how to get it to show in the message, but you can click on it to see.


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## Vegan Princess

Aww, I love the pics! They are suck adorable little girls now!!  So pretty!

I am happy to report that poop went in the potty this morning! The big potty! She was getting scared and upset by the feeling. Tried on her little potty for a bit but requested the big potty. She even tried to hold herself on the seat by herself, without the potty ring! I did get her to use the ring though so she could relax and go. I think pooping on the big potty at the dr yesterday made a big impression. I was sure she'd be scared of the big potty but we rushed in there so fast that she didn't get to think about it and now she sees it's not bad.

As for dumping contents, yeah I was just planning to find a bush or be discreet. But I did buy something called a Potette yesterday. It's a little ring with fold up legs and you put on a disposable bag with an absorbent pad in it. Then you can just tie it up and throw it away. The thing folds down flat and can fit in a diaper bag or the basket of a stroller. You can also fold the legs out and it turns into a potty ring for public toilets. It was only $15 at babies r us. Great for hauling along anywhere! I brought it to the farmer'r market last night, just in case, bc there are no toilets there.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Ah Mal, look at her all dressed up! So cute! It is cool how our babies are on the same track. We do have a lot in common! If I remember we even share the same anniversary (June 25, 2005). Fun Fun! I've been thinking about how fun it was to share with you guys when Fiona was born too! I still don't feel as connected to my other DDC but I think its because we've been chatting for about 3 years now! Can you believe that?

McKittre: I've been meaning to ask if you think Katmai would respond to bribery for wearing underwear.







I just know having a sticker chart has really helped Fiona move along. She's so excited to go pick a sticker after she goes potty.

Hmm, now I'm wondering if we should get another potty to have in the car. I joked with DH in an email that I got her this far and I'll leave it up to him to finish this off!

I've been trying to figure out why I'm so tired lately and then it hit me. My brain is a bit slow these days... caring for a rambunctious and sick 2 year old alone while simultaneously growing a human will do it. I've decided its OK if I'm tired and didn't jump on the small window of dry weather to mow the lawn yesterday. I did manage an hour of prenatal yoga and in the end that was way better for me then mowing the lawn!


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## AKislandgirl

We've had sunshine for two days in a row! Hooray! Despite the constant runny nose we've made the most of it by attending the Crab Festival, going to the parade this morning and playing in the yard. I got the rest of the garden planted today too and managed to mow the lawn. Feels good to play outside in the sun. Fiona ran around naked in the sun loving life. It did hit 50 after all!  What can I say, she's an Alaskan girl!









I need to post another picture because it shows off Fiona's "style" much better!



And here she is tormenting our poor chicken Henrietta. She's the world's most tolerant chicken and lets Fiona scoop her up all the time. Usually she gets a better hold of her though!


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## Vegan Princess

LOL! I adore those pics Sue! Especially the chicken pic. What kind of chicken is that? It looks like our buff orpington. And I had to chuckle at the warm 50 degrees. It got all chilly and rainy here and was 53. I made soup for dinner. LOL.

I think M is pretty darned potty trained!!!! Not 1 accident today. She's been taking herself potty and telling me she needs to go if we are out. She told me she needed to go while we were in Home Depot and she sat on the big potty and went! And she took herself potty for both of her poops today. I'm so super impressed! She's pretty excited to say that she doesn't wear diapers anymore and tells me that quite frequently. I find it so strange....when my mom was here 2 weeks ago she didn't want to go and my mom was telling me she wasn't ready. And she wasn't. But all the sudden, something clicked and she's doing it! Yay!

DH is finishing the coop and building the chicken run this weekend. Can't wait to get the girls out of our guest room. It smells like a barn in there now! I can't wait to see them outside. And I can't wait to see if our house becomes a spectacle since they are going in the front yard! We get a decent amount of foot traffic for a residential street bc the bart train station is a couple blocks away and neighbors walk past our house to commute to work. Anyway, I'll get pics of it up when it's done. I think it's going to be pretty cute.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Sounds like M is doing the same thing as Owyn, and I am just in awe! I didn't have to train her. I just waited until it was clear she got it, saw the light bulb go off, put her in underwear and we haven't looked back! Of course, we're only 2-3 weeks into it, so I'm just waiting for some kind of regression, but so happy with the progress she's made so far! She had one accident at my aunt's house last night, but she was playing with her cousins and it was way past her bedtime, so I know she was just distracted and tired. We've been going out of the house for the past 3 days with underwear on and she tells me when she has to go. She just will not poop on the potty yet. She waits until I put a pull up on her at the end of the day and poops in it immediately. Not sure how to handle this except to just wait until she gets it like I did with the diapers.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: I noticed M was afraid of the feeling. Yesterday she asked for a diaper when she had to poop. And I could tell she was scared of what was to come. I told her she doesn't wear diapers anymore and said I'd stay with her the entire time. She said "I need my mama" and I held her hand and told her how great she was doing and sort of talked her through. Now today she seems fine with it. So perhaps you just need to do some hand holding around the time she normally goes - and once she sees it's ok she'll be cool with it.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Yay for all the potty successes! I've resorted to bribery here, and made Katmai a chart we draw sea stars on and give. I made a big deal that after he finished a page it would be time for big boy underwear all the time, so we'll see how it goes. On the plus side, he asked twice to pee in the potty last night when he had a diaper on (just after bedtime and at around 5:30AM). But as soon as he had underwear on this morning, he peed in them. But then he took them off before he had to poop. We'll see how it goes.

We're headed out this afternoon to watch some of the chainsaw carving, and for the fish fry after the human powered fishing derby. Should be fun. And if the weather holds, my husband will be back tonight.


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## AKislandgirl

We did it! We did underwear out of the house today! We went to a friends house for dinner and I brought her in underwear and brought her potty with us. She was very excited when we arrived and I said she could sit in the back of the subaru and pee in her potty there. Then after dinner I took her to their bathroom and she went again. As we were leaving she said she needed to go in the back of the car again! She barely went but I think she thought that was pretty cool! So excited to be getting this far. We are still doing a diaper at night but the last few days I've let her take her nap without one and she's been fine. I do worry about our mattresses though. Need to get a waterproof cover I think. I'm still not sure how she'd do if we couldn't get to a potty within minutes. We'll have to see when the time comes I guess. I think except for the night time diaper she'll be pretty much potty trained by the time DH gets home. Not a bad project to tackle while he's been away. Makes me feel less guilty about the cluttered living room! Ha!









And Cindy, what were those things you mentioned a while back about protecting the car seat from potty accidents? Washing that would be a pain and then we'd be stuck at home while the cover lined dried! Doesn't sound good!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Good job Fiona! Such an exciting point for all our little ones!!! The thing I bought is called a Piddle Pad. I think they range from $5 to $15 - not bad for saving your expensive investment. My sister has 3 kids and swears by them.

Makenna hasn't even had an accident in over 2 days! I'm astounded! She took herself potty almost every time yesterday - including 3 poops. We did buy special pullups bc she said she wanted to try and wake up at night to go potty. But after having them on for a couple minutes she asked for her diaper instead. They don't seem too comfy after being used to sleeping in a fleecy cloth diaper. I'm not sure the cloth trainers would work at night though. I explained that she could still wake up and use the potty, even if she had a diaper on. But she didn't really wake up last night and when she did it was bc she was having bad dreams and once I said she didn't have to do whatever she was crying she didn't want to do, she went back to sleep. That happens fairly often now - she cries that she doesn't want to do something or doesn't want butter on hers or something wierd and once you tell her she doesn't have to, she does right back to sleep. Anyway, we'll continue to talk about night time potty but I doubt it will happen any time soon. Though my mom tells me that she doesn't recall ever putting a diaper on us at night once we started using the potty. And that we had a few accidents but got it pretty quickly. I don't want to deal with peed beds just yet though.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

That's so awesome that everyone is doing well with pottying! Yay! I love having a potty-trained toddler!! There are times when we're out when just having him pee in a diaper might be more convenient, but mostly it is sooo much easier to have him potty trained. And we can pack a lot lighter when we visit family  Now I just need him to learn how to pull his own pants up and down!

Re nighttime diapers - I've been keeping R out of diapers at night the whole time (since I started leaving him naked). He did have a couple of accidents at first but he figured it out quickly. His accidents were all in the morning. We were at my dads this weekend and he did have one small accident in the morning. I had already got up and wasn't in the room so that's probably why. And he was sleeping in (it was after 9am). But he only leaked a little and then I heard him get out of bed and when I went up he wanted the potty and did a big pee.

Re piddle pads - I wonder if a prefold would work just as well? I've been putting R in diapers for long car rides, but he hasn't peed in them at all. I think for the most part he would tell me and we could pull over, but I worry about being stuck in traffic or something and not being able to pull over quickly. Maybe I will try a prefold for our next big car ride.

I'm going to hang onto his diapers for a little bit longer but soon I will be selling them! Yay!

AK - Great pictures!! That poor chicken lol!


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## starling&diesel

Bah. Our potty 'success' was short lived. E is back to insisting that she'll go on the potty when the baby comes. Grrr. We move this weekend, so I'm going to give it a rest until we're in the new place. Love the pics, Sue!


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## Mal85

Yay for all these big kiddos! Owyn had on semi-accident this weekend. Last night after we took a long walk, she was potty dancing all the way inside but insisted she needed to take her shoes off first and peed a little in her underwear before she made it to the potty. But she held most of it and had a big pee when we made it to the toilet! I got her a seat that goes on the toilet and now she likes to push her step stool up to the toilet and climb up there herself.

Still won't poop on the potty. She sat on the toilet forever this morning and would. not. poop. As soon as I threw my hands up and put a pull up on her, she pooped. Something about it just seems to freak her out, even though I stay right by her, hold her hand and even hug her the whole time she tries. It just freaks her out. I figure we're only a few weeks into this and I should just be patient with her about it. She'll get it eventually. We haven't tried an overnight with underwear on, but I think she'd probably do okay if I was quick enough to get her to the toilet first thing in the morning. Like Cindy, I'm just not ready for peeing in the bed!

I've been taking her in the car with her underwear, although not very long rides. I just make sure we go potty before we leave the house and before we leave to come home. I have stuck a prefold in the seat under her before, just in case but haven't needed it. We're taking a 4 hour car ride in a couple of weeks and we'll probably put a pull up on her for that, but we're planning a few stops along the way so hopefully she'll make it there dry.


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## Vegan Princess

Chicken coop is done and the girls are moved outside! Feel a bit bad as we didn't put them in until 6:30pm. They have yet to explore their run. Maybe tomorrow. I can see the coop and run perfectly from my desk. Unfortunately, I can't see into the coop much from here. Right now we have a small run that should be totally predator proof. The plan is to expand the rest of the area between the coop and current run and the fence around our yard to make that more of a run. That part will be less predator proof and they will only be allowed in there during the day. The small run is so they can go outside before we let them out for the day. I guess technically the small run is supposed to be big enough for 4 chickens, but it seems a bit small for big birds.

Here are the pics:

Coop&run



Front door



Inside



SO glad to have them out of our guest room! The amount of dust they generated is UNREAL! I think I need to disinfect 3 times to get it clean.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy! That is so cute! I love it. They'll love it! And yes, the chicken in the picture is a buff orpington. We have two and they are the mellowest of our birds. Love them. Forgot to answer that a while back, sorry.

So I'm one stressed out Mama right now and need to vent. Pleas excuse me... ahem. We actually had a great weekend with lots of potty success out of the house and such. It's my dogs that I'm so stressed about. We have two. Maia is a 4 year old lab, Willie a 9 year old golden retriever.

Maia had surgery to repair a torn ACL a few months back. It is very common that the other need to be done. We were just hoping that wouldn't happen and at least not soon. The surgery was $3000! Well, I took her for a half hour walk yesterday and today she can't even put any weight on the leg. Great. This is the same way she acted with the first leg. So there's that. We don't really have another $3000 dollars and the extra money from this work trip of DH's was supposed to go to new windows on the house. Grrr...

Willie is always sick. In fact we thought she had cancer but turns out that no she has irritable bowel syndrome. Didn't even know dogs could get IBS but Willie has it. The only way to keep her from constantly throwing up is to have her on a daily dose of prednisone. It's certainly shortening her life but she's happy and isn't puking all the time so her shorter life is a happier life. The vet told us that some dogs (and people too apparently) react to prednisone by eating weird things. This has certainly been the case and she gets into stuff all the time now. I used to be able to get up and leave food on the couch and she wouldn't have touched it. Now its like she can't control herself. Well the other day the new pack of pony tail holders went missing. I thought Fiona must have stashed them in one of her baskets or something because she was excited about getting them and taking them out of the package. Today Willie starts puking up pony tail holders! The pack had like 60 of them in there! They are the thick soft cotton ones. Anyway she's only puked up like 10 of them so far but she's been puking all day. Just as I got Fiona off to sleep I heard her puking in the living room and found that she had puked in 4 different spots on my rug. So I had to clean that up and now I have to worry about if they are stuck in there are what. Crap this makes me so mad. I'm alternating between being totally pissed off at her and feeling really upset that she might be really sick. So I'm going to have to see how the rest of the night goes and if in the morning more of them haven't come up (or out!) I'm going to have to take her to get xrays to be sure nothing is stuck. We can't afford that either and certainly not a surgery to remove 50 F'ing pony tail holders. Crap, why can't DH be home!

If you read this long vent... thank you! Might end up sleeping on the couch tonight with the baby monitor on so I can get her out to puke so I don't need to clean up carpet in the middle of the night. Looks like I'll be renting a carpet cleaner tomorrow.


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## Everrgreen

AK - Big hugs! It is so hard to have pets with health concerns - and so expensive! I had a cat in university that I spent over $2000 in vet bills (I used student loans to pay for it!). I wouldn't have if I'd known upfront what the cost would be. But it was all these little things that kept building up and building up and I knew it was getting expensive but it's hard to say, 'ok that's enough'. He did get better for about 3 weeks but then he got very sick and had to be put to sleep. I was devastated. I'm so sorry you are going through this with both your dogs. Willie may also have pooped out a lot of the elastics or even puked them up outside.

Cindy - Love the chicken coop! Very cute!

Mal - That's frustrating that Owyn won't poop in the potty. I would be tempted to try a bribe just to get her over that first poop in the potty. Does she have her own explanation as to why?

Starling - Good luck with your move! It makes sense to put pottying on hold during a move! And it sounds like E is really sticking to her plan so far, so hopefully she'll stick to it when her brother arrives!


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## Mal85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Everrgreen*
> 
> Mal - That's frustrating that Owyn won't poop in the potty. I would be tempted to try a bribe just to get her over that first poop in the potty. Does she have her own explanation as to why?


It is so frustrating!! I've tried bribery already, doesn't work. I've tried candy, stickers, even a promise for a new toy or a trip to see her Papa... those things will get her to sit there longer, but doesn't get her to poop. She won't tell me why she won't do it. I've asked her if she's scared to and she just looks at me like I'm crazy and freaks out if I try to get her to sit on the toilet longer than she wants to. I just don't know...


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## mckittre

AK - we once had a very greedy cat that had very expensive surgery because he'd swallowed a rubber stopper and gotten it lodged in his intestines. He came out OK though. It's so hard to make those decisions on how far to go with a sick animal.

Cindy - The chicken coop is super cute.

Katmai kept his pants dry all day! Helped that we were pretty much home and in the yard all day. He doesn't know how to go on big toilets or outhouses yet, but I'm encouraged by the progress.


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## AKislandgirl

Well, she's still pooping and stopped throwing up. I know there are more in there though because despite throwing up around a dozen times she only threw up one pile of them. I'll just have to keep an eye on her. I'm so surprised there is nothing showing up in her poop. Sorry if that's TMI... When I was at Walmart buying a carpet shampooer I double checked how big the pack of pony tail holders was that I had gotten there. A pack of 88! Good god, dog!! Somehow I think she'll be OK because she's back to her usual self. I would feel so much better if i saw the rest of them out though!

DH gets home a week from tomorrow. We miss him so much! The other morning Fiona was just crying and crying and I asked her what was wrong. "I just want my Papa!" over and over. It broke my heart! He should be able to take that Friday off of work so we'll get a nice 3 day weekend with him before he goes back into his regular work schedule. I have a feeling she won't let him out of sight!

I've pretty much decided that Fiona is going out of the house in underwear now. She has had 2 successful outings so far. She has the occasional accident at home still but its getting pretty rare. I do have her in a diaper at night. I'm so not ready to deal with wet beds yet! I need to get her new jammies too because all we have are one piece zipper jammies. She needs two pieces so we can quickly get her to the potty. I'm discovering that many of her pants won't stay up now!

Fiona has been playing around with adding the sound ba to lots of words she used to say correctly. Noodles are now banoodles, mangoes, bamangoes... It makes me wonder what's going on in her little brain when she decides to do stuff like this. Hopefully something grand!  She also makes up her own words for certain things. Pretzels is a word she can say just fine but she calls them womebs. Funny girl! We have several friends who ask her now if she's snacking on them, "Are those good womebs?" Funny that the Fiona language is moving beyond the family!


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## Everrgreen

So I've decided it's time to sell my diaper stash. I have no idea what to charge. And there is so much stuff that I think it's unlikely to go as a 'package deal' (although that would be easiest!) This is what I have:

Diaper pail bag
Diaper sprayer
20 large prefolds
21 infant prefolds
2 Motherease covers (Airflow snap M/L white, Rikki velcro L pond)
1 baby blue snappi
6 Thirsties covers (all velcro, 3 X-small, 3 small)
2 Bummies swim diapers (both velcro, X-small sea turtle, Small sea turtle)
10 AMP Duo pockets (size L 15-35lb, all snap, some leakage issues with these)
8 Kawaii pockets (one size 8-36lb, all snap)
1 Kawaii minky pocket (one size 8-36lb, snap)
2 Drybees fleece overnight pockets (large, 20-30+lb, both velcro)
20 microfibre inserts (3 Bummies, 17 Kawaii)
5 AMP bamboo inserts
2 Kawaii bamboo inserts

I went through everything and how much I want for it and the total is $275. Do you guys think that sounds reasonable? I do have individual prices (as that's how I came up with the total price).

AK - Glad to hear your dog is doing ok! Hopefully she will recover without needing the vet!

I love hearing about the language skills of our little ones. I think R is about average but so many people irl comment on how well he talks for his age. He does talk A LOT! He also repeats everything. My friend introduced her mom to R as 'this is my mom' and then R was calling her 'mymom' lol! He also was calling my dad's girlfriend 'me' after she was talking to him and said 'papa and me'. The repeating thing gets exhausting sometimes, especially because he will keep repeating it over and over and over and over until I acknowledge it. Ex: Me: I'm going to take a shower, R: A shower? A shower? Take a shower?, Me: Yes a shower, R: Oh yeah (or OK, but 'oh yeah' is his new fav). He also is constantly asking 'what happened?' even when nothing happened.


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## AKislandgirl

Everr: Where are you going to sell? Diaper Swappers or craigslist maybe? You could offer some slight discount if they buy a certain amount as a way to get people to buy more. Less hassle for you. Or just break into several lots... just some ideas!


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## Everrgreen

AK - Well first I'm just letting friends and family know. If that doesn't work I will go to Kijiji and try and sell locally. I've broke it down individually/mini-packages:

20 large prefolds, 2 motherease covers, snappi $40

21 infant prefolds, 6 thirsties covers $50

2 Bummies swim diapers $10

10 AMP Duo Pockets (leakage issues) $40

5 AMP bamboo $15

2 Drybees Pockets (3 microfibre) $20

9 Kawaii Pockets (17 microfibre, 2 bamboo) $65

Diaper pail bag $10

Diaper sprayer $40

I never know what to charge for things. Most of this is half what I paid. Except the Kawaii's (which are only 6-7 months old and in excellent shape) and the diaper sprayer which was never used. I also have the little practical voice in my head saying 'Don't sell it! You may need it all again!'. It will be annoying to have to re-buy everything, BUT that will be years away (if ever) so I'm trying to just sell and move on.


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## mckittre

Language is fun. Katmai's on a super polite kick lately, saying things like: "Mama, I would like some more raisins. Thank you mama!" It's very cute, and obviously a great alternative to the "I need more raisins RIGHT NOW!" yells. Katmai also makes up nonsense words - usually as answers to any question he doesn't understand, or sometimes just for fun. And any time he says anything, he repeats himself louder and louder until you respond to him. He also won't let us exclude him from any conversations anymore - any time adults say something to eachother, he starts yelling "What are you talking about?" until we try to explain. He talks ALL THE TIME. But as his language develops, it's really fun listening to him tell little stories about things that have happened, and give me his own explanations for how things work. He was looking at an alphabet book the other day (U and V) where the unicorn was scrunched into a U shape - "I didn't thought that unicorns could fit in there, but I knowed that vultures could fit. Because vulture is littler than the unicorn."


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## Everrgreen

mckittre - That's awesome! R doesn't say anything that complex! It's so fascinating to hear their thoughts! But he is also HUGE on manners. It's so funny. He always says please and thank you, 'bless you' if someone sneezes (even a stranger). And we are working on 'excuse me' for burps and toots, but mostly he just laughs :/ It cracks me up when I give him something and he will say 'Thank You Mommy!' like I've just given him the greatest thing ever lol! I also love when he says 'Mommy, you're *my* baby' (he got that from me calling him 'my baby').

Anyway, I'm very much enjoying his growing vocabulary!

There is something that R does that I've noticed for a while and I want to see if this happens with others. So many times he sort of reads my mind. I am always trying to figure out if it's just a coincidence or if I said or did something to give him the idea. It's just really weird sometimes. But it doesn't happen all the time (I've tried testing it ) A lot of the time I'm thinking of a certain person and then he will say something about them. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy!

Agh! Potty-learning fun - as I was typing the above R had to go poop, so I helped him with his boxers then came back to continue typing. Big mistake! I heard a wet plopping sound and went into the bathroom to see that R had attempted dumping his potty into the toilet. Key word 'attempted', he missed. And he has been having some very loose poop so it was all over the toilet, down the side, and on the bath mat. So gross.


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## AKislandgirl

Fiona is pretty good with please and thank you too. I hope it sticks! She also asks people if they need a "bless you" (tissue) when they sneeze. The other day she farted and laughed and said, "I farted like Papa!" Got that right kid!

Potty learning for us so far...

*naked at home = 100% success

*in underwear at home = 90% success

*in pants at home = 50% success

*in pants out of the house = 90% success

I think we do better in pants out of the house because I'm hyper aware of taking her to "try" and at home I'm more relaxed about. I'm hoping we can get better at the pants at home thing so that when we are out and about it becomes more about her just telling me when she needs to go and less about me just taking her. I don't know... So far I'm really pleased with how things have gone and I'm not looking back. We stick to diapers only at bedtime. I hope that by the time we fly to my parents place at the end of July things are even smoother so I'm not worried about accidents as much on the plane. We'll see...

Dh will be home a week from today! Woo Hoo. It feels so much better to be able to say he'll be home in a week (or less as the week goes on!)


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## Vegan Princess

LOL Sue at the fart thing! Makenna says that too about farts and burps - just like Daddy!

Everr: Sorry, had to lol about the potty dumping too. Ewww. But only bc I can relate! Makenna dumped pee across 3 rooms of our house last week. Thankfully we have wood floors!

Today we had to pull over and make an emergency stop on the side of one of the busiest streets in San Francisco so Makenna could pee in her little potty on the side walk. A funny site it was. At least she told me and didn't pee in her carseat. Annoying though bc I took her 2 times while we were at the dr before our drive over to the city and she refused to go. And thank goodness she didn't yell that she had to go while we were on the freeway. She's done great out of the house though. Knock on wood!

The chickens finally ventured out of the coop and into the run. Now they don't seem to know to go back in (it's almost dark out). Not the brightest animals. Speaking of animals - Sue, I'm so sorry about your dogs. I hope the hair ties all work themselves out! And I hope you can figure everything out with the other one's leg. I am so heartbroken by things happening to animals. :-(

Cindy


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## Mal85

So, at what point do you consider a kid potty trained? Owyn is great with pottying and I'd say she's about 95% with going pee... in the house, out of the house, with/out pants, etc. Almost all the potties get in the toilet. But she still sleeps with a pull up on and usually pees in it before making it to the toilet in the morning. She's a slow waker and lays in bed for a little while before she gets up, so I assume that's when she pees. And she still won't poop on the toilet, but other than those two things she is just about there!

She doesn't ask for her diapers anymore and it's been over a week since she has worn one. She is napping with underwear on now, I just have her go before she lays down and we rush to the toilet when she wakes up, no accidents during naptime so far! She does occasionally ask for a pull up, but pretty much only when she needs to go poop. I think I'm going to start putting the pull up on her for poops and having her sit on the toilet with it on. Maybe she just needs to get used to the feeling of sitting down while pooping. I don't know, I hope it works.


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## Vegan Princess

I consider M trained. She is peeing and pooping in the potty every single time and we haven't had a real accident in a week! Just a few drops in her panties after she woke up from a nap and was super cranky and upset so she wouldn't even consider going potty until it was almost too late. Still wearing a diaper at night too. Mal - I don't think there is a set time to consider her trained. I'd say she is pretty much there - just needs to get the pooping down. But it sounds like you're not doing diapers anymore and that's what counts! 

Happy Friday all!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

I'm still unsure about calling R 'potty-trained' - I don't want to jinx it LOL! I've just been saying 'he's not wearing diapers anymore'  So I guess that's my definition!

I wish I had more tips for you Mal for pooping in the potty! I like your idea of at least getting her to sit on it. What if you just line the potty with the diaper instead of actually putting it on her? Maybe that can be step 2 after you get her used to sitting 

And it looks like my diapers are all sold! A friend wants some and a friend of hers wants everything else. So that was easy! I'm feeling a bit sentimental about selling them (and it feels so weird to feel that way about DIAPERS! lol!) But it will be ok. And hopefully I will find some good diaper deals if I ever need to rebuild my stash.

We have been having gorgeous weather here this week and R and I have been doing lots of biking and walking. It's great! Although this morning I hurt my back on the teeter totter. I have no idea how. I also slammed my knee on the bike, dropped the bike, and the gear cut my ankle. It was a rough day and I'm feeling a bit beaten up right now.


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## AKislandgirl

I don't remember the last time I was on a teeter totter!

We went to our weekly play date today. It's held at the teen center here which offers a nice open space for the kids to run around and ride their bikes and play with balls, etc... When my friend went back to work after her maternity leave was over I have taken over opening and closing the building which means we have to be there every week! We are just going through the month of June and then taking a break for summer. It's a little hard though because if a lot of kids show up Fiona is pretty stressed out. I just don't know that its the right play group for her. DH thinks its good for her to go and have to deal with all the other kids and sharing her trike, etc... but I just don't really know. She does have fun part of the time and then sort of is unsure and not into it the rest of the time. I feel like I'm pushing her into something that just isn't her thing and it makes me feel bad. I'm glad we only have 3 weeks left! I won't be in charge of opening next year so I won't have pressure to be there or we can leave early...

But my question is... Do you put your child into situations that aren't quite in their comfort zone in hopes that they will learn and grow from it or do you back off when you see them uncomfortable? In other group setting like her music class or story time at the library she does great. Music she especially loves and she'll even dance and hold hands with some of the kids that she worries about during playgroup. Love to hear your take on this Mamas!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: I wouldn't push it. Maybe go and when she is not enjoying it anymore, leave. Makenna is always singing and dancing at home. She loves the playgroup we do to but at then end during circle time, she refuses to sing and she gets really upset if I try to sing and do hand gestures. So now I just oblige her and don't sign. And at music time at the library she really didn't want to dance or even get off my lap. I thought best to let her enjoy it how she chose. And if she really wasn't into it, I don't think we would continue going.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Our pottying success is zero! Ah, well. We move tomorrow, so might start fresh once we're settled in.

*Sue*: I wouldn't go for a couple of weeks, and then try again? Or check in with her and see if she wants to actually go, or if she might just want to take a bit of 'down time' at the periphery, or go for a walk, or have a cuddle. If Mé wants to leave somewhere, we usually do. I hate being overstimulated when I'm not into it, so I figure the same will be true for her. However, not sure how I'd feel for lessons, etc, where we're paying and there is an understanding of commitment. We're hoping to start dance class and violin lessons next year, so we'll see what she thinks of that. If Mé is acting like a wing-nut, I know she's gone past her point of comfort too, but is too wound up to express her needs. We usually make an exit in that case too.

ps. Hope your dogs are both on the mend! When my old dog had cancer for the first time ($3000) she and I had a looong heart to heart and decided that if she got it again, we'd put her down. She was nine when she got cancer the first time, and twelve when she got it again when Esmé was about seven months old. We put her down. It was a hard decision, but one that felt right. I didn't want to put a senior dog through all of that again. We have an unofficial $5000 limit on each of our pets (one cat and one dog) and then we'd have to have a very serious conversation. Sounds callous, but in real life, these things do matter.

*Mckittre*: I thought of you today. Mé and I went to a Marsupial Mamas meet up (babywearers) and I learned how to carry Mé on my back in a woven wrap with the knot above my baby-belly! Yay! It was so comfortable. I love it. I bought a second hand wrap to practice with. So excited!


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## AKislandgirl

Well my instincts have been to quit going or leave early but I'm in charge of unlocking and locking the building for the playgroup. I really wish I hadn't taken on that commitment but at the time not many people were coming and she loved it. Now that it is more popular and more kids come its just too much for her. People are always late so she basically has fun until it gets crowded. The good thing is we have only 3 more weeks until its over for the summer. Today I put the balls we always bring for the kids to play with away so she didn't have to share those. That helped a bit. The playgroup will start up again in Sept and I'm not going to be the "key master" then. That way we can come and go more easily.

*Starling*: I'm jealous you have violin lessons available for Esmé! We really want to keep Fiona involved in music because she really loves it. Seeing her in her music group vs play group is like night and day! You can tell she's in her element. Maybe I'm just not aware of it but I don't think anyone teaches music to really little kids. I'll have to double check. Many of my nieces and nephews have done violin starting at 2.5/3 and they were so cute! And those mini violins... gah!

My woven wrap arrived in the mail today. I LOVE it! I had to use youtube to learn how to tie Fiona on my back but its awesome. She wasn't in the mood to be carried though so I'll have to try again when she's ready. She said, "Baby sister will like this Mama, get me out!" LOL Every time I think of you wearing two kids *McKittre* I'm in awe! You're a pretty bad a$$ Mama! 

*Cindy*: I had to laugh picturing M sitting in her potty on the sidewalk! I've gotten a few funny looks from people when Fiona has been sitting on her potty in the back of the Subaru. Ah well! You do what you gotta do! Today at playgroup Fiona used toilet there instead of her potty seat which I brought. I'm so glad she was willing to use the big potty. She said, "oooh, this is a beautiful potty!" LOL!

*Kate*: We miss you! Hope you are getting settled in OK.


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## starling&diesel

*Sue* ... I AM SO JEALOUS OF YOUR WRAP!!! I saw the same one in real life today, and was drooling over it. I tried to convince the mama to sell it to me (her youngest is three, so not much more use for her) but she's not letting it go. There was a Jungle one there too, the more muted greens and blues. Sigh. Heart. Yum.


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## Everrgreen

AK - I'm not sure what the right answer is and I can't think of a situation where R is uncomfortable lol! Well, that's not true, he does sometimes get shy when he first meets new people, but he quickly gets over that. The only thing I've 'forced' him to do is stay in the ymca childcare and even that I have now given up on because it just wasn't working. But at playgroups or at the park he is at his best!

I love the idea of getting R in a real class. I don't have him in anything. We don't even go to swimming lessons anymore. He does love going to the drop-in play centre but we don't have any regular weekly outings. I think he would enjoy sports groups and I would love to sign him up for soccer next year. We may try skating next winter too and then hockey the next year. Assuming he is interested. A music or art class would be fun too, but I think R would be way too busy (at this age anyway!)


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## Everrgreen

Oh! I forgot I had a question. Do your little ones know colours? I've made numerous attempts to teach R colours and he still has absolutely no clue. I'm actually starting to worry that he may be colour blind! Or maybe he's just too young to get this?


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## Mal85

Owyn doesn't know her colors. When she says a color, it's always blue or green, but that's for every color. My daycare girl knows her colors and has for a while.

As for the playgroup, Sue, I don't think I'd push it either. I mean, finish up what you've committed to, I get doing that. But if she doesn't have a good time or only has a good time for a little while, I'd just keep it at that. You might keep trying and just leave when she gets uncomfortable, she might grow into liking it more. I wish we had classes and real playgroups here to choose from. I think the soonest she could do something like that would be... I think soccer might start when they're 4 or 5. I think we'll look into swimming lessons either this summer or next summer. I taught for a long time, but I think it'd be good for her to do it with someone else.


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## mckittre

AK - I often ask Katmai after the fact if he had fun somewhere, and use that to gauge whether it's worth trying again. He doesn't mind playgroups, but never seems to be terribly into the other kids (only their toys). But he says he likes his friends, and it's important for both of us to be connected to the local parent/child community I think. I also do think it's important for everyone (adults included) to be out of their comfort zone sometimes, if there's something to be gained from the experience. So maybe I push him a little. Not that being miserable is good, but I think many people miss out on a lot because of the unwillingness to do something that is uncomfortable at first (says the wilderness trekker).

Everr - glad the diapers sold quickly!

AK and Starling - Yay for wraps! I just took Lituya for a checkup/day of running errands in the "big town" and had her in the wrap pretty much all day. So handy. I got a Neobulle Julie as my new wrap when the new baby showed up, and I love it.

Classes - No regular classes for little ones here unless my parent friends and I decide to make some. Which we might do as they get older. My husband and I know aikido, I've got friends that know music, etc...

Colors - Katmai knew his colors at 1.5, but I think it's something that varies widely with whether they're interested or not. My husband is slightly colorblind though, and his parents said they only knew when he failed to spot his sister wearing a fluorescent green shirt on the beach. If you're really worried about it Everr, try seeing if he can easily pick out fluorescent green or orange objects.


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## Everrgreen

Alright, he doesn't appear to be colourblind. I found a couple of online tests for kids and he was able to point out the shapes. I also remembered that when we go grocery shopping he can be very particular about which colour pepper we buy (he will say 'no, other one!' when he wants the orange instead of the red). I guess he just hasn't figured out naming colours. My brother is partially colourblind (he doesn't see red/green) although he is adopted so there is no genetic relation, but it still made me think!

I was reading another thread here about what a 2 year old should know. I feel a bit bad that I haven't taught R a lot of things but I guess he'll learn it eventually. He will be daycare/preschool in September so I'm sure he'll catch up then!


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: M knows her colors and has for a while too. I remember my MIL's friend being shocked when we were visiting at Christmas time and Makenna was correcting her about colors she was saying. I think she was just shocked though bc her kids all have learning disabilities. Anyway, at this age there is a huge variation in when they walk, talk and learn different things. And I don't believe it means they are smarter or not or that they will be ahead later. I just think they pick up different things in different order.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Fiona knows most of her colors. She sometimes mixes up red and orange but gets it right usually. Her favorite color seems to be yellow. She always wants the yellow legos, yellow cup, etc...

I don't worry about "teaching" her stuff. I think just Being is the job of a two year old. We might read books or sing songs that talk about shapes but I'm not worried if she knows them all. I think the things a two year old does naturally helps them learn what they need at this point. Pouring water (or potty seats! Ha!), digging in the dirt, feeding the dogs, stirring the muffin mix, molding play dough, coloring pictures... Just being a typical two year old is what they need!


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## justKate

Hey ladies, just stopping in to say hi and let ya'll know I didn't fall off the face of the earth. Our move has been pretty chaotic, but things are getting settled now and I have lots of catching up to do! Hopefully I can start catching up when DD goes down for a nap today....


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## Vegan Princess

Yay Kate - nice to see you back! Hope all is settling down for you. Looking forward to an update. 

I had a meeting with my friend today about the preschool coop we want to start. We met with the woman she wants to hire as our teacher. She also has a daughter that is 2.5 and would join the coop. I liked her and think we will likely use her. I had thought my friend wanted to shelve the idea but I'm happy that it's back in the works. It will only be 2 mornings/week and I will be spending every 4th morning helping the teacher. Makenna has known my friend and her daughter since she was 2 months old. We've got 7 other spaces that we're hoping to mostly fill with moms we know from playgroup.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Kate - Welcome back! I've been wondering how your move was going! Glad to hear you are getting settled 

Thanks for all the reassurances about learning stuff. I'm mostly not a worrier but I have little moments of panic 

So, I have decided to start vaxing R. I always thought I might start when he was 2, but then once he turned 2 I didn't know what to do. I've thought things over and over and over until my head just about exploded. I still feel so unsure and guilty about it. Blah! But anyway, we are going to start with DTaP as that's the main one my dr is concerned about (mostly tetanus) but she also said Pertussis would be a huge pain for me because R wouldn't be able to go to daycare if he got it. I think that's all I will do at this age but I will do a few more before he hits his teen years. I am calling in 10 minutes to make the appt and I feel a bit nauseous.


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## Mal85

Ever, I think DTaP is a good place to start, especially with him being older and fully mobile. It's more likely now that he could hurt himself and need the tetanus. We started Owyn when she was 6 months old and she's had her rounds of DTaP, HIB, Polio and started MMR. The only ones we've really declined are Prevnar, Hep B, and chickenpox. I just didn't think Prevnar was necessary. DH and I have agreed if she doesn't come down with chickenpox on her own during childhood then we'll talk to her about getting it when she's a teen, just because it's more dangerous to get in adulthood. But that and Hep B will mostly be her decision that we'll talk to her about when she's older. Vaxxing decisions are the hardest to make, they've definitely caused me the most headache so far. There's too much to consider and I feel like I have no way of knowing for sure if I made the right decision. I'm not sure if we'll do anything differently with the next baby....


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## AKislandgirl

Everrgreen: DTaP is the only vaccine Fiona has had all the way through. We started her on Hib but she had a bad reaction to it and I didn't take her for any of the other doses. I'm not sure we will do anymore at this point. I'm also not sure we will do any at all for the next babe. It is really hard! I tried posting about it when she was a baby in the vaccine forum here but got A LOT of judgment and overall not helpful answers at the time. We've used the Sears vaccine book as our main resource on the subject. What ever you decide to do I really suggest giving one at a time so you know if he does have a reaction which one it was from.

We've had bed time battles the last few night. She just goes bonkers and tries to jump on the bed, hit me, yell... she is just super over tired and can't settle down. Last night I felt terrible after holding her down so she wouldn't hit me anymore and yelling at her to go to sleep. I started crying and she immediately started giving me hugs and asking if I was OK. I told her I was upset that she wouldn't go to sleep but was more upset that I yelled at her and held her down. I told her I was sorry and we just got up, ignoring the fact that it was 10:00. She played for a while while I watched TV then crawled up on the couch. She asked for her blankie and her tiger then rolled over and fell asleep on the couch at 10:45. Sigh. It was a tough night. Today there will be no nap in hopes of a more decent bed time.


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## mckittre

Katmai has had all the DTaP (not on the normal schedule, though), and just got the MMR when he was 2. Those were the only ones I thought he had any realistic chance of catching the diseases. I probably won't do anymore unless/until we're doing some foreign travel, or I have to for school.

I'm doing the same for Lituya, probably.


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## Mal85

Sue, I hear you on the sleep troubles! Owyn is doing fine again with her naps, I just don't let her nap as long as she had been. That was helping, but not anymore. She won't go to sleep be 10 lately, not even on days when she doesn't nap/hardly naps. I'm guessing it's because it's been light here so much later. It's not fully dark until around 9:30. You're in Alaska, so I assume it's been light pretty late there too, do you think that could be part of Fiona's problem? I'm holding out for the 4th of July, usually after then I can really start to tell the sun is going down earlier and earlier. I love the longer days, but hate the sleep battles it brings. I'll be glad when it's dark at 8 again, maybe we'll get back to some normalcy.

Last night, Owyn woke up crying like she was scared around 2 am. When she got in bed with us, she clung to me like a life preserver. I'm guessing she had some kind of nightmare. Even after she fell asleep, she wouldn't let go of me. A couple hours later she was sleeping deep enough for DH to put her in the crib in our room and she did okay after that, but it made for a sleepyhead mommy today!


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## Vegan Princess

We have the same sleep issues. Makenna went to sleep at 10:30 last night. But she took a 2.5 hour nap yesterday. Mostly she doesn't nap anymore and she still never ends up asleep before 9 or 9:30. It's a bit maddening. At least she sleep later now. But often that just makes for a hectic morning trying to get out of the house to an activity. I've been trying to encourage quiet time in her room when she won't nap, so that I still have some down time. She mostly doesn't get it. Today she did play up there but made me come up 5 times in 15 minutes to help her go potty. She did legitimately have to go most of the times. Yet she still managed to pee her pants. She's peed her pants 3 times today. Not big pees, but still. She was doing so well until today. I suppose good and bad days are to be expected. It's still only been less than 2 weeks since we ditched diapers.

I toured an established co-op preschool today. It would be for January 2012 or more likely, Fall 2012. I loved it. It was play based and looked so fun. I think it will likely be where we send her. There are a couple other coops and 1 non coop I want to tour too. I knew you had to volunteer in the class at a coop but I was surprised to learn that you also take on a family job (cleaning the office or organizing or helping with finances, etc) and that consumes 8-12 hours/month. The little coop my friend and I are setting up for this coming fall won't be so invoolved at all. I really do think we may consider a non coop for down the road, if we can afford it bc it is a lot of work - work days, monthly meetings, fundraising, etc. The coop was 324/mo for 3 days. I think the non coop place I like is 450 for 3 days.

Ugh. I got a red light ticket! I got the pics in the mail today. And there is a video online of my failing to stop when I turned right on a red light. I'm expecting it to cost me $500 with traffic school. The most expensive ticket possible. My first ticket EVER! I'm so bummed!!! :-(

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Edit: The other vaccination we did was the Pc not Hib. She got one does of Pc and then we stopped due to her reaction.

I know day light plays a role in our nights here. McKittre, how are things going at your house these days? It's light till around 11:00 or later these days. Yesterday we skipped the nap and she went down peacefully at 8:30 and today she slept for just under an hour so hopefully tonight won't be so bad.

Bummer about the ticket Cindy!


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## Vegan Princess

No nap here today and wow did she melt down in the grocery store just now. We're still at that wierd stage where she keeps telling me she's tired and acts tired some days and other days she is fine fine fine. Mostly she won't nap now and I'm sort of learning to adjust to having no down time. Makes for a tired mama at the end of the day. I wish she'd grasp the quiet time concept. Of course my mom went on and on again today about letting her cry in her room until she gets it. But she's been saying that since she was a baby and wouldn't go to sleep for her naps. And her advice never worked the few times I (regretably) tried it. Not about to start letting her cry it out now.

I got AF today. My D&C wasn't even 3 weeks ago. Crazy. At least I think that's what it is. It's almost non-existant. So I'm a bit unsure if I should start my fertility meds tomorrow. My dr's office seems convinced it is AF but just light from the D&C. Now I wonder if I should be taking my specialist's advice and waiting another to build up the lining more. My OB seems sure 1 is fine. I guess the worst that can happen is I will take the drugs and won't get pregnant if my lining isn't thick enough. That's not a big deal. I'll see the specialist at the end of the month - in time for my next cycle if this one doesn't work. Nice to know my body is as eager to get to trying again as I am!

Cindy


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## justKate

Wow, I missed a lot! Especially pottying. I'm afraid we've fallen off the potty train with the move. We're doing panties and pullups without any real method to it. We've been in our new house 3 days now, so things are still a mess but moving in the right direction. Right now she's screaming NO NIGH NIGHT at DH as he tries to put her to sleep. I HATE it when she screams for me..."my nigh night MOMMY!"

ANYWAY, we're all moved. Our stuff arrived last Thursday after a pretty uneventful drive. We managed to dodge most of the storms, although I did end up with 2 hail dents in my car. I don't really care, but DH was disappointed since he tried his best to keep our route away from the storms. We stayed in Tuscaloosa along the way, and drove through the area where the tornado hit there. I think like 130 people died? It was horrific. Hard to explain. I wanted to take photos but that seemed too disrespectful. Actually even driving through the streets looking at the devastation seemed disrespectful, but seeing the result of nature in action left a big impression, and I'm glad we did it.

So where we live now (23072 if you want to google map it) is a lot like where i grew up--tall trees, more rural than suburban, with a small-town-everyone-minds-their-own-business attitude. So far it's pretty good. There is a tiny public library where we're going tomorrow for story time for the first time. There's also a beach (well, on the river) a couple miles away with a playground. The neighbors across the street from us are waterfront, but there's no public access and so far no one has offered to let us run through their yards. Seafood is waaay cheaper here, which is awesome. Gas is cheaper than TX believe it or not--$3.49/gal today! I mean that's still high, historically speaking, but $.30 less than it was in TX. Today I went to the grocery store and things are starting to feel more settled. Also, I'm officially a SAHM! The best part so far is being able to make a good breakfast for everyone in the morning, without all of the mad rushing around. The worst part is worrying about doing enough, and getting Aubrey enough interaction with other kids. But all that will come. Now I'm going to post this and come back for personals....


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## mckittre

Cindy - that sucks about the ticket. And good luck with the fertility meds! Sending baby dust your way...

Kate - Glad the move went well and you're getting settled in.

Katmai seems to have gotten over the light-at-night thing, though there was a time in spring when he kept trying to push his sleep time back to sunset. Wouldn't work at all now, since it's light past 11. With one room and a skylight, making it dark for him is totally impractical, so he's just had to learn to sleep in the light. He doesn't often nap anymore, and never at home, but he still needs them sometimes. Today I took the kids to town and back in the bike trailer (3 miles each way), just so he would sleep! He was using his sister as a pillow, which was quite cute. That worked to give him a nap, and he was happier in the afternoon, but then pushed his bedtime back an hour or two, so I'm not sure its worth it.

Pottying. We've ditched the diapers during the day, but are going through the undies and pants. He seems to always tell us just when he's starting to pee, so there's always a little wet spot, then he'll finish up in the potty. Reminders work, but it takes quite a bit of tricky convincing to get him to consent to go to the potty when he doesn't want to. I've taken to trying to talk up how fun it is to pee in various different spots around the yard, which seems to work better.  I don't think going back to diapers will help though, so we're sticking to it this time.


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## justKate

Erin, we're on the same page with the pottying. Aubs is in panties mostly during the day, but has accidents. Well, they're more like intentionals. But its not a big deal. I think a week or two of this and we'll be back on track. I hope! Have you planted yet? I'm really missing my garden now. We didn't really get here in time to put anything in, and it would have to be in pots, and I just don't have the energy for it at the moment. So maybe in the Fall. How are you finding Lituya's disposition? I think it would be wonderful to watch that interaction. Hopefully I'll get that opportunity some day!

Cindy, that really sucks about your ticket. I know the feeling--I got my first ever speeding ticket 18 mos. ago and I was so surprised I nearly cried. Thankfully traffic school in TX is way cheap. And you got AF!!! Yay! Its great that your body is resetting and ready to go. I'm sorry I wasn't around more through the D&C. I hope that you're still letting yourself grieve a little if you need to.









Sue, you're having a girl, I don't know how I missed that! Did I predict girl? I think I got you and Starling right and guessed wrong for Mal. Are you still holding up alright with DH gone? That really sucks about the sleep. Sometimes its just not worth the fight. Its hard for me to remember that.

Everr, hooray for potty successes! Seems like last time i was here you felt like you were making no progress, so I'm glad things are looking up. Vax-wise, we did the first round of everything except Rotavirus (because she needed it to go to daycare on the military base). After that all we did was DTap. At 26 mos. she had her first MMR. We are declining Hep B indefinitely and may do the chicken pox vax once she's in real school. I probably won't get her any more until she goes back to daycare or starts real school. Did you make a decision on what to do?

Mal, poor Owyn! She's had a rough couple of weeks. Are her battle wounds healed now? Aubs has nightmares now and then, but I think its mostly after really stimulating days. The world is so big for their brains to process! And hooray for your new little girl. Have you thought about names? I know DH would want a boy too...but there's always that possibility down the line.

Starling--I definitely thought boy for you! He's going to shake things up; it will be great. Although I'd be unsure of how to manage a tiny penis too.... I was hoping you would be feeling better by now though. When are you moving again? This week or next, I think?


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## justKate

*Nilla*, how did the cake turn out? Any photos? Hopefully the wedding went well.

*Courtney*, how are you doing? Settling back down now that DH is back?

*So in other news...*

DH has agreed that we can begin TTC next cycle! That will roughly mid-July, so I'm







on the inside! There was a bit of negotiation involved--basically I have to dutifully look for a job and prepare to take the bar exam in February so that we won't be in trouble when my unemployment runs out next year. Whatever. TTCing next cycle, yay! So I guess I just take my vitamins and folic acid... Cindy, I'll be TWWing with you next time around.


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## Everrgreen

Kate - Welcome back!! I'm glad your move went smoothly. And how exciting to be staying home with Aubs and ttc #2!! I'm sure you will find lots of things to keep busy, your new area sounds great  No complaining about gas though, here it is costing $1.30/litre!!

As for vaccines - the appt is booked for next Thursday, just for DTaP and I need my booster too. I think that's all I will do for now.

Cindy - That really sucks about that ticket! Yikes! I have only had one speeding ticket several years ago. I've been lucky 

R has been at a rough spot for napping for a while. He definitely gets tired and cranky and needs a nap but then he stays up so late. I'm not too worried right now. Once he starts daycare his routine will change and he will go to sleep early (hopefully.. haha)


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: How exciting about TTC!!!! I hope it happens quickly for you. But yuck - you have to study for a bar exam while prego and watching a toddler? Eww! Do you think having practiced for a while will help or will it be harder since you aren't fresh out of school with all those facts stuck in your head? My sister moved around a lot after law school, while her husband did a bunch of different medical residencies. She's taken the bar in CA, TX, Ohio and NY!! And now she is a stay at home mom. I think she should go back to work teaching bar prep. Actually I take it back, I forgot she IS working now. She's writing the arts & entertainment column for her local paper - and gets to go to all sorts of concerts and shows for free. Pretty cool.

Well I just downed my fertility pills. Here's to hoping they do their job and get me knocked up with a healthy baby!

M is napping today. It's nice to have some quiet!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy! So excited for you. I hope it works this cycle! Lots of baby dust coming your way!

Kate: So glad to hear from you. And yeah for TTC! I'm so excited for you! I think you and Aubs will adjust just fine and get out with other kids and such as you get to know your area. Sounds like fun! Every day is a new exploration!

Everrgreen: When do you start school? Will that be another move? And will you still be close to your mom to be able to spend some time with her on weekends?

Yep, Kate another girl! Fiona is talking more and more about the baby. We were just looking at pictures on Facebook of my friends newborn and she said, "Look they have our baby sister!" LOL! Not quite kiddo! We scored a double jog stroller from a friend (she's my doula too!) and we took it for a spin as soon as we got it home the other day. It's awesome and Fiona kept patting the seat next to her and saying this is baby sister's spot! Makes my happy that she is expressing joy about this! I hope it sticks. I'm still worried about the transition. When Fiona was born DH took 2 weeks off and then went half days for 2 weeks. I'm hoping that he can do longer like 3 and 3 this time. Does that sound reasonable? Last year he took the week of Christmas off which turned out to be really nice so maybe having him do that again instead of one of the half day weeks would be better. I don't know!

He gets home tomorrow though! I can't wait. I think he's going to be surprised by how big I look since he left nearly a month ago. Fiona is so excited about him coming home! I have a feeling he won't even get to pee or shower without her. She has missed him so much. Last year it took her several hours after he came home before she would even go to him. This year she talks about him all the time and I don't think there will be any hesitation. What a difference a year makes! It's funny because all of her underwear was in the wash the other day and I told her I didn't have another pair for her until the dryer was done. She said, "Oh, maybe Papa took my underwear on the boat" in this sad little voice. LOL!

We have good days and not so good days with pottying. I'm just forging ahead regardless. Today she told me she had to go first thing even with her diaper on from the night. Then later this afternoon she peed her pants.







I figure peeing her pants reinforces the whole thing and she's a bit distressed by the fact that she gets pee on her underwear. Other days we don't have any accidents. If she's naked then there is no problem either. I have to remind myself its a process and really she's doing great!

I spent a lot of time and energy deep cleaning my house yesterday. I got rid of a lot of clutter and dealt with things that have been on the back burner for some time. Today, I'm exhausted! I feel like I should have energy to continue but I just don't. I think if I can accomplish folding the mountain of laundry tonight and shaving my legs







then I'll call it a day!


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## mckittre

Kate - great to hear from you again. Exciting to be trying for a new little one!

Our garden has been totally planted for a couple weeks, and I keep peeking underneath the row cover, watching the starts and seedlings get bigger. In Alaska, I feel like I have to be right on top of it when the snow melts - we have such a short season. Maybe in another week or two we'll start getting some radishes. It's been a cool rainy summer so far, which means I haven't had to water at all, but probably slows the growth down some. Katmai loves to help water and dig, so we've been spending a lot of time in the garden lately.

Lituya is about the sweetest baby ever, almost always happy, loves to bounce in her doorway jumper, and adores anything her big brother is doing. Watching the sibling interaction has been really fun. It ended up being a much easier transition that I feared, and now that she's a little older (5 months) it's fun to watch them start developing a relationship. Katmai likes to bring Lituya toys when she drops them, races back and forth in front of her, and likes to tell her what he's doing. She smiles and laughs and babbles at him. It's very cute.

Katmai has been napping in the bike trailer a lot lately. I think he needs more sleep than he's getting, but he's so hard to put down when he's napped.

Today we went on a toddler speed hike with a friend and collected lots of yummy nettles for dinner!

Pottying seems to be going downhill as the novelty has worn off. I'm going to try and back off a bit on trying to convince him to try and just deal with the wetting for a bit and see if he picks up again on his own. I don't want to go back to diapers, but I don't want the power struggle either.


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## Mal85

Kate, so great to hear from you, I've been wondering how the move was going. And yay for the beginning of TTC!! Did you conceive Aubrey fairly easily? I don't remember the details there, I hope this is a smooth process for you! And yes Owyn's wounds are healing. Her steri strips were on for about a week before they fell off and now she has a small red mark where she hit, but I don't think the scar will be too bad. What's funny is I have a scar just like it in almost exactly the same place on my forehead, she keeps pointing it out saying "Mommy's owie?" Then points to hers and says "Owyn's owie". We have exactly zero names picked out for this baby so far. I had a boy name picked out that DH wasn't too fond of, but I was pushing for it. I still have trouble wrapping my head around this baby being a girl, I won't be totally convinced until my ultrasound next Friday.

Pottying is still pretty much the same here. She rarely has accidents during the day, although last weekend she had several. We spent most of the weekend swimming at my sister's and that's where she had most of her accidents, so I think she was just too busy to remember. She asks for a pull up about midway through the morning, her signal that she needs to poop. She'll usually try sitting on the potty first, fart a couple of times, then ask for a pull up.







As long as she'll sit down on the potty and try, I don't push it much further than that, she'll get there eventually.

I have 3 more weeks until I'm off work for 2 whole weeks! I am so ready for the break. I should find out something about the preschool job in the next couple of weeks, they said they'd decide at their next board meeting which is on the 21. They did call and ask for my references and two of my references let me know that they'd been called, so I'm taking that as a good sign. It'll be good to get a definite answer so I can make some official decisions about when this baby is born. During my time off, I'm signing Owyn and I up for a parent child swim class. She is such a fish this summer! She has water wings and will swim on her own with those, doesn't want my help at all! She's jumping in, going under and all of that. I'm excited to do the class with her so she can learn some skills for swimming without the floaties.


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## Everrgreen

AK - I start school in September and I will be moving again. Right now I live very close to my best friend in the world and my mom is 2 hours away. My university city is halfway between so I'll be an hour away from both. I plan on spending a lot of weekends at my mom's house. Through the week I'll be on my own, but that's ok. R will be in daycare full time so I'm going to get as much school work done between classes as possible and that way I can focus on him in the evening. We are also downsizing into a bachelor apartment which should be interesting!

Cindy and Kate - Sending you both lots of baby dust!!! Hopefully you will both be knocked up this month ;o)

R is fighting a cold at the moment, he hasn't had one in a long time. He's got a fever, cough, and is all stuffed up. He's also not eating much and has been having diarrhea. He's laying next to me right now and he is so sad :'(


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## Blessed_Mom

Hi ladies,

Can I ask for some advice please? I had my first postpartum period on the 25th of last month. But even after the usual 5 -days I have been spotting. When I say "spotting" it seems like an exaggeration because it really has been one teensy tinsy drop every other day (a slight pink tinge on the tissue. Sorry for the TMI.)

Before my pregnancy I never ever spotted after my period was done.

I start my ovulation period as of today and I "spotted" yesterday too. Should I be worried? Did this happen to someone else too? Oh - I got my first AF 2 yrs after my daughter was born (so almost 3 yrs of no AF). Should I try and TTC (like we have been waiting to do?)

Please, any insights? thanks so much.


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## Vegan Princess

Blessed mom: I have no answers for you. Sorry. You should try asking over on the fertility forum - hopefully someone will have had the same experience.

Everr: I hope R feels better soon! Sounds miserable.


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## AKislandgirl

DH is home!














Fiona was shrieking with joy when she saw his plane land. My Papa is in there! That's my Papa's plane. Then she jumped out of my arms as soon as she saw him and just held on tight. She kept saying, My Papa, My Papa. It made me all teary! He's had the day off today too so we get a nice long weekend with him!

We went to playgroup this morning. He took her for a walk about half way through when she started to get stressed out and unhappy about being there. Now that he has seen what I was talking about with her he totally gets it and agrees there is no need to push it. Next week I've actually canceled play group because Fiona and I are going to a music camp for littles. Just 45 minutes but its at the same time as playgroup. Then one more week and we will be done!

Fiona declared that she had to pee right when we were pulling up to the teen center. DH said he'd deal with it and she could pee in her potty in the back of the car. Other families were arriving so I went to unlock the building, turns lights on etc. Then I went to check on them because they were taking quite a while. She peed and pooped in her potty! Ha! Welcome home Papa!! I've not had to deal with her pooping out and about and had told him to just dump the pee in the bushes. It was pretty funny! Glad she saved that for Papa!

Everrgreen: Hope R feels better! I hate seeing them sick! How great that you will be even closer to your Mom. Spending weekends with her will be so nice and give you a chance to get studying done. You must be getting excited about school!

Starling: Haven't heard from you in a bit. How is your move going? Are you getting all settled into your new digs? Don't overdo it Mama! How much longer are you working?

Mal: 2 weeks off will be so great! Lord knows you deserve it! Will it be a staycation the whole time or are you guys going somewhere? Swimming lessons sound great. They don't have any for real little kids here and I'm terrible about getting her to the pool. At this point I don't even have a suit that would fit! I'm getting really big!


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## Vegan Princess

Mamas I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO!!! My father in law arrived last night for a 10 day stay. He is 82 and has early alzheimers. So far he has fallen asleep and peed my couch and I think he pooped his pants and left a trail of pieces that fell out - one that he stepped on and one that he PUT IN THE KITCHEN SINK!!!!!!! I don't know what he's done with the rest, or his clothes but I am sure I'll be dealing with that later. DH is on his way home from work. He doesn't even plan to take more than 1 day off. So this is all on me. I can't do this for 10 days!!!! DH is going to have to suggest diapers. And I know that is not a conversation he is going to want to have - or a thougt he is going to want to face. This trip was supposed to be long as an experiment to see if he should move in with my BIL and SIL or move to assisted living. I think I know the answer. I've known about his memory issues and looked forward to providing some good meals and comfort for him since he lives alone (wiht a neighbor doing a lot for him for pay). But now I just feel overwhelmed by ICK.

Sue: I love Fiona's reaction! I bet you felt the same way inside.  Enjoy your DH!! And post a belly pic! You too Starling. I saw Mal's belly on Facebook. I love big bellies!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Oh wow. There is no way I would want to be responsible for taking care of someone who had those kind of needs. That is A LOT of work! Is it too late to cut the visit down to just a couple days? I think you've already accomplished the goal of determining if assisted living is needed. It is a health concern too, especially with a young toddler around. I think it's in everyone's best interest to get him into assisted living asap. *hugs* I'm sorry you are having to go through this with your dh. Alzheimer's is horrible and I hope I never have to see one of my parents go through that.

AK - Yay for your dh being home!!! Reading Fiona's reaction made me feel all warm and fuzzy too  And I think it was awesome of her to show off her pottying for him right away 

And I am getting very excited about school! I found out I got all 3 transfer credits I applied for so that will save me a bit of time and money. I will be apartment hunting soon. I'm still waiting to hear if R got into the daycare (hopefully he did!) And it will be nice to go to my mom's on weekends mainly for myself so that I can get some studying done but also because my mom has a big house and a yard so that will be nice for R 

R threw up shortly after I posted and then had a big sleep. He was a bit better this afternoon (he ate and was playing a bit) and he's already gone to bed so he should get a good sleep tonight!


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## Vegan Princess

Well so DH agreed FIL needs to wear diapers. While I was at Target shopping for a plastic sheet for the futon and depends, Makenna found more poop on the floor and BROUGHT IT TO MY DH!!!! OMG!!! DH didn't think he needed to wear them while he was awake. So we went out to dinner and smelled something on the way home. Turns out he had another accident. So DH got him into the depends. He took it fairly well. Only problem is, he likely won't remember this whole event or that he has to wear them come tomorrow. He's still pretty clear and lucid about old memories but he'll sit and tell you the same story three times in a row bc he'll forget he just told it to you. So DH is going to have to remind him every morning to put them on and call from work to ask if he needs to change them, etc. I don't think it's a good idea for me to talk to him about it. I don't want him to feel humiliated. When he peed I pretended he spilled his tea since he had no idea he peed. So yes, I guess a lot of questions are answered for BIL and SIL. I feel awful for DH for having to face this and be the one to address it. And DH is realizing this may be his dad's last visit out here. So it is a sad thing. Hopefully the depends will make the rest of the visit easier to deal with! And they look just like the pullups I bought for Makenna. Minus the disney princesses, of course.

I am amazed by makenna! We checked out a book from the library called Barnyard Lullaby. It isn't short. It has lots of different animals singing lullabies to their babies. The first 4 lines of each lullaby is unique to each animal and the last 4 lines are the same every time. She can remember and recite the entire lullaby for every animal! And she can recite almost all the words to the non signing parts. I actually asked her if she could read the words. But she got mad and said "No, I don't want to count those!". So I'm sure it was memory.  I can hardly remember the 4 chorus lines.

http://www.amazon.com/Barnyard-Lullaby-Frank-Asch/dp/0689842562

Cindy


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## mckittre

AK - yay for having your husband back. Last time mine went away (only 5 days), Katmai was asking and asking about him as well.

Cindy - Wow, that sounds hard. I've had two grandparents (both passed now) that have gone through Alzheimers recently. It's hard on everyone. And I know I deal with enough toddler and baby excrement already, I would not be at all excited about dealing with the adult version as well.

Their memories are really amazing at this age, aren't they? Katmai's not in as much of a book kick now but a few months ago he was memorizing nearly every book on our shelf and reciting bits of them at random times. I found that trading lines and reciting a book together (without the book there) was a good car game.

Everr - glad that school's working out and R seems to be feeling better

Mal - good luck on the preschool job. And that swimming sounds impressive. Katmai is so not into swimming (just wants to stand on the pool steps and play with toys), so I get out of the habit of taking him, and then he's even less comfortable in the water... I need to try again sometime soon.

We're trying a new potty strategy here. He's becoming really resistant to us suggesting he go, so instead of reminding him to use the potty, we're just giving him "pants off time" every so often. Once his pants are off, he'll usually take himself to the potty within a few minutes, but he has to feel like it's totally his own idea. I am getting tired of dealing with all the accidents in between, though. I'm almost tempted to give up entirely for now, but it would be so nice if he was done by September, and I know he CAN do it if he wants to.


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## justKate

*Blessed_Mama*, you're still nursing, right? I'm afraid there's no knowing exactly what's going on, but it sounds like your body is just trying to figure it out. Maybe check in the Fertility subforums.... I know you mentioned before that you'd like to TTC. I hope you find the answers you need soon.









Cindy, fingers crossed for you with the new meds. When do you expect to O? That really sucks about your FIL. I hope that your DH continues to manage it so that you don't have to get into the details with him. 'Cause eww, yuck. But it does sound like he needs more personal care than what family members should be expected to provide. Hopefully there is a nice place where he can go to live in dignity.

Sue, so happy DH is back and Fiona is showing him how big she is!

I can't believe I'll really get to TTC next cycle--I'm still in shock but DH did mention it again so it must be true. Aubs was conceived 4 months after going off Depo, which i think is pretty quick. I hope the next one is quick, especially since I'm charting now.

My best friend had her twin boys yesterday at 35 weeks via c-section. The first baby was breech and not doing as well, so they went ahead and did it. She was also miserable with PUPPS. One baby had to be sent to the NICU for observation but the other baby and mom are doing fine. I'm so anxious to see them! She lives in Germany now so I guess photos and Skype will have to do.


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: I hope your friend's babies both thrive! How exciting they are here!! I should O by this time next week, I'm guessing. I'm on day 6 of my cycle. I usually O on day 12 or so. I'm not sure what to expect bc of the femara I am taking. If it goes textbook, I'd expect day 13, but I hear it can make you O earlier. Anyway, we'll have to get to BDing soon!  Going to be an interesting feat with FIL here until a week from tomorrow. I think our only option is to use M's big girl bed since she is in ours and FIL is in the guest room and we can't exactly use the couch with him wandering around.

So things have calmed down now that FIL is wearing the depends. He didn't put up a fuss and thinks they are a type of underwear. Unfortunately for DH, he has used them for #2 a couple times and DH ends up having to clean him afterwards! Not sure how things will go w/DH back at work tomorrow but I think it will be fine with me not addressing the issue during the day. DH will just have to get him all set before he leaves. 4 days of DH working and then he'll be home for the rest of the visit. Anyway, it's definitely been decided that he will go to the assisted living place they found, sooner rather than later. DH said he no longer feels guilty about that decision bc he knows it is the only real option.

Erin: Don't give up! It sounds like Katmai is so close to totally having it! Good thing warmer weather is here so he can have more naked time.

Is it just me or are any of you having a harder time with disciple or your child not listening to you? I feel like I am threatening time out a lot lately whereas a month ago she'd really never even sat in time out. She still doesn't actually sit in it very often but the threat comes out a lot more. She just blatantly does not listen to me when I tell her repeatedly to stop hitting the cat or stop hitting me, etc. She is getting really brutal with the cats lately too - not sure where that came from all the sudden. Testing her boundries, I guess. The other day she did something and she said "you have to tell me NO now".

Cindy


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## Blessed_Mom

Thank you justKate. Yes I am still nursing. I did start a new thread in the fertility forum and I think I have my answers.


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Oh R has his days! Mostly it's just when he's tired or hungry. The rest of the time he's pretty agreeable about everything. He was so difficult for a while but then he figured out the potty and shortly after that I noticed all his 2 year molars had come through and since then he's relaxed into a very easy toddler. He does get quite rough with the cat sometimes either hitting or laying down on top of him. It's frustrating. I usually remind him that he is hurting the cat and warn him that the cat will hurt him. I think my cat likes the attention though, he never runs away. Silly cat! I think I may actually be keeping this cat (me, R, and a cat in a bachelor apartment, fun eh?) My other cat hid from R in the basement all day and I did find a new home for him where he is living the high life (it is an elderly couple who have nothing to do but pay attention to him all day long).

I'm glad things are going ok with your fil. It really is in his best interest to be in assisted living and it's good your dh isn't feeling as bad about it. It's hard though.

mckittre - naked time is how R started with his potty-learning and I also mostly just left it up to him. He figured out pottying during naked time on his own it was adding pants that was a bit trickier. But I still have mostly left it up to him to tell me when he has to potty. The only time I'll ask is if he's grabbing himself or before we head out somewhere.

Kate - Congrats to your friend! It's always so exciting to hear about twins but I hope I never have them myself  And good luck with the ttc this month - woohoo!

Blessed Mom - *hugs* fertility issues can be so confusing and frustrating! I'm glad the fertility forum got you some answers. I spent so much time posting there when I was ttc R.

R is still not completely better. I don't know what's up with him. Last night/this morning he spent hours tossing and turning and whining and being miserable. This morning he was whining about his head hurting and when I asked how he hurt his head he said he fell of the bike??? So I'm not sure if he was just having bad dreams? And all the crying got him coughing non stop. Finally I gave up, got out of bed, and went to the couch and he crawled up next to me and fell fast asleep. So I'm a bit sleep deprived and he's calmly sleeping beside me.


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy: So hard to deal with aging parents. I'm glad hings are somewhat worked out and your DH is feeling better about him moving to assisted living. I hope the rest of the visit goes smoothly.

Blessed Mom: I've had my share of fertility issues. I know how heart breaking and stressful that can be. I'm glad you got some answers.

We suffered a little "re-entry" as I call it with DH coming home but it really is so great to have him back. Discipline is sort of where we have our rough spot. We don't exactly agree on how to deal with it. Fiona can be pretty intense and does her share of whining or yelling. DH can't handle it and I got upset with him because I feel like he's always telling her no or correcting her. I don't really know how I want to deal with discipline... I don't want a whiny grabby kid but my gut also tells me that its not good to forever be correcting her. I'm trying to phrase thing in the positive as much as possible and model. For example, Can you show me how to gently pet the dog. Another thing I'm trying is to explain that if she doesn't want to share a toy she can just say she's not ready to share but find something for the other person to play with. Last night it worked. So I'm going to roll with that for a bit. When she hits me though I do give her a warning and then put her in our room and tell her we need some space (I don't call it time out). She usually ends up playing by herself or looking at books and comes out calmer on her own time. I guess that is mission accomplished.


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## Mal85

Oh, disciplining the two year old... I have a pretty intense little girl here myself. She is definitely a girl who knows what she wants and doesn't let anything (including me) stand in her way. A good trait for life, but not fun when it comes to discipline. You all know we've dealt with biting and had our share of troubles with sharing. One thing that really does seem to help her is having a small chat before the kids get here. If I know she's been having a rough time, we'll have some morning snuggles and talk about how she's going to play with her friends that day. We'll talk about how it hurts her friends when she bites and hits and that it's not okay to treat other people that way. I don't know how much of it she actually "gets", but it does seem to help. I guess it's just a pep talk for the day. She still has trouble with sharing, but who doesn't? She responds well to turn-taking though. If she wants something that someone else has, I just remind her that it's their turn and she can have a turn when they're done. That will usually get her to back off, but if she really wants it, she'll just hang back waiting for her first opportunity to pounce. In that case, it takes several reminders. And once she gets her turn, I'll celebrate with her "Yay! Owyn gets a turn now!" I've actually overheard her playing with the kids telling them "My turn! Now your turn!"

She has started to get a little mouthy though. I haven't quite figured out how to deal with that. Just yesterday she started yelling "No Ma'am!" at me when I was trying to keep her out of the clothes racks at a store. Usually, if I'm getting onto her for something she yell "Stop it Mommy! Go away!" So far, I've just been telling her it's not okay to talk to me that way and have occasionally threatened time out for that when it's really bad. In a not so great parenting moment I told her she was being very ugly to me and I didn't want to be around her when she was like that, then left the room. I felt bad for it, but it did get my point across to her. I struggle with that, being honest with her about how I feel but trying to keep my temper in check at the same time.


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## starling&diesel

Hi everyone! I'm still here, just not finding time to be on the computer lately because E always wants to be outside and I certainly don't mind. I end up being so tired at the end of the day though that I just go to sleep when she does. Not very exciting for DP, but there you have it. We're settling into the co-op and trying to get the house sorted, while not being inside very much. I've got a couple of weeks left at work and then I'm off for about fifteen months. I can't wait! I'm pretty exhausted lately. Pregnancy is sure a different experience when you're hanging out with a toddler all the time! I'm thrilled to report that I haven't thrown up in about a week. Hallelujah! The nausea has been replaced with rampant heartburn, and to be honest, I'm not sure which one's worse. I love feeling this little one kick. That has got to be one of my favourite parts of being pregnant. I've managed to only gain seven pounds so far (thanks to all that nausea, I'm sure) so I'm hoping to keep my overall weight gain down this time.

*AK* ... We occasionally resort to a couple of minuted in E's "thinking chair", which is our version of time out, in a sense. She's only been in her thinking chair a handful of times, but it's been effective when we've used it. I think she's only ever been in her thinking chair after being willfully hurtful to the cat or the dog. "Re-entry" is hard. My stepdad worked a few weeks out and then was home for a few weeks. It was always an adjustment, especially as a child trying to juggle the expectations of two parents after having gotten into a groove with my mom. Great that your DH is home though! And what huge developments while he was gone! I bet he was pretty impressed!

*mckittre* ... Good luck with your new strategy! We have no strategy here at all. Bah. Not sure if I should push through and try to get her 'trained' before the baby comes or just give up and try well after so that I'm not caught in potty purgatory with a newborn and E. By the by, how old was L when you did a back carry with the woven wrap?

*Mal* ... E can be super mouthy too. We're working on that, trying to ignore her when she's using a bossy tone or demanding things without being polite. I struggle with being honest with her and keeping my temper in check too. I feel ya there.

*justKate* ... Congratulations on your move! And congratulations on TTC! That's great news! Perhaps you and Cindy with be ddc buddies!

*Cindy* ... We're most definitely noticing that 'discipline' is becoming more of an issue. I've very sure of not wanting E (or her brother) to be what I think of as a 'brat' (cheeky, rude, entitled, pushy) so I do want to correct and coach and encourage and support her towards becoming a more empathic, generous, thoughtful person. We're perhaps more firm than some of our parent friends, in that we do enforce 'please, thank you, sir, ma'am, pardon me, etc' and expect her to be respectful to her elders (a heated thread in TAO on that topic) but I do want more alternatives than are currently in my arsenal. I went to a few 'parenting from the heart' sessions here lately, and that's led me to some good reading material, which I'll try to link here when I get a second. Time to reread some of the classics (Unconditional Parenting, Hold Onto Your Kids, etc). And as for your FIL, that is a huge challenge. My stepdad is heading that way too, and it's a huge strain on the family and his sense of self-worth and purpose. It's hard to watch, and hard to navigate and hard to be a part of. It's especially hard on the heart.


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## Everrgreen

Starling - Glad to hear your move went well and you are getting settled! And no more nausea - woohoo! Heartburn would suck though (I will admit I've only had it twice in my life, but it sucked both times)

R has lots of sassy little comments too. Often when I'm trying to calm him down and I will rub his back and say 'shhh' and he will say 'Mama! Don't sh sh!'. Also this past weekend he's been sick and we are at my moms and he has been all about mama and only mama. If my mom gets too close he will say 'No Grandma! Go away!' I also hear a lot of 'Mama/Grandma/Someone else! Don't do that!' If someone is doing something that's annoying him. I guess I should be telling him to say things in a nicer way. But for now I usually let him express himself how he does. He is very polite usually though - lots of please and thank yous.

One thing that works well with R is 'later'. If he wants to do something that we can't at the moment then I will tell him we will do it 'later' and he completely accepts that and moves on. He also responds really well to explanations, if I explain something the usual response from him is "oh yeah? ok mommy!" Also, if he's playing with something he shouldn't I say "can you put that back or do you want me to put it back?" and he will almost always want to put it back right away himself. Finally, I threaten with having to go to bed if he's being really obnoxious, being whiny and not listening = tired, and so if he can't stop the annoying behaviour it's nap time. I have put him in bed and said "when you are finished crying and you feel better you can come play again" He will pull himself together and wander out within minutes (saying "I feel better mommy!"). Sometimes he pulls himself together immediately and we move on.

The whining is the absolute worst, it drives me to my absolute limit. I do try the whole "I can't understand you when you whine" but he doesn't get it. If I model how to say it in a nice voice he will usually figure it out and repeat it nicely. But it takes a lot of patience from me to model the nice voice every 5 minutes because he's reverted back to the whiny voice. And sometimes I have a total mommy freak out and yell at him to stop whining now or he is going straight to bed. I do feel like a b!tch sometimes but I do my best, sometimes I just need to go into survival mode! I do think R is becoming a very easy toddler and I am thankful for that!


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## Nillarilla

Hi,

Sorry I've been MIA. The cake turned out great other than the darn dog bit the side off of it. Thankfully before it was covered in fondant.



Mouthiness I think this is the age where it starts and then it's a neverending battle. I've had lots of success with just repeating what they say in a nice way and they automatically change their tone to match mine (if I am calm about it). We've had to resort to time outs here a few times. Mostly I get my older one to make it right. It's hard until they hit about 3.5 though for them to get that concept and mostly I have to make it right and drag her along with me. Sometimes works sometimes doesn't.

McKittre I say just keep plodding along and it will click for him pottywise shortly probably.

Cindy that's so hard with your FIL. It's hard in a care setting that's set up for people with dementia I can't imagine it in my home with my kids around.

Starling so glad to hear that you are having less nausea have you tried papaya enzyme for the heartburn and almonds straight out of the freezer? We are living outside at the moment too. I admit I am a much saner happier mom in the summer.

Sue yay for having your dh home and Fiona showing him all her progress.

I just took my ds to his kindergarten orientation. Feels kind of surreal. They grow up way tooo fast!


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: Glad to hear from you! I've been wondering how the move went. Wow, you'll be on maternity leave so soon! Yay! And yay for no more barfing. But I feel you on the heartburn. I had some today for some unknown reason and was remembering being pregnant. Blech. I forgot about that lovely part of pregnancy. I would love to see those links when you are up to it. And I will check out the 2 books you mentioned.

Nilla: That cake turned out amazing!!! I love it!

Thanks for the feedback guys. It gets frustrating. I need to let it roll of of me more. But I also do not want to raise a child that feels like she is entitled to do whatever she wishes.

My summer babysitting co-op starts on Monday! I didn't realize it was so soon. We had a playdate/meeting about it today. Monday and Thursdays from 8:45 to 1. And we each just pay $10/day (to cover the babysitter we hired to help out the hosting mom). That goes right into the first week of the preschool co-op. So I guess this is the last week of having M with me full time. Kind of sad to me. But it's not like I won't be spending every few times watching her myself and I can always not send her and keep her with me. But man oh man am I looking forward to a little me time!! And yoga classes. Other than yoga, I'm not sure what I will do with my time! I'm quite pleased with the babysitting co-op. I know all the other moms and kids pretty well and they have grown up playing together - so I feel very comfortable leaving her with each of them.

Cindy


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## Blessed_Mom

Cindy,

can you please elaborate on the baby-sitting co-op?


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## Mal85

Nilla, that cake is BEAUTIFUL!

Starling, so good to hear from you! Glad you're getting settled in to your new place. Is it bad that I'm so comforted by the fact that E is mouthy too? I have an image of her in my head of being such a perfect little girl! I will say that Owyn is also very polite. She almost always says please and thank you, I don't even have to remind her most of the time anymore. I'm not quite sure where she picked up the Yes Ma'am/No Ma'am thing, but I think I like it!

Sue and Starling, how is the naming game going for your babies? We've been stalled for such a long time. I had a boy name picked out, DH didn't love it but I was pulling rank since he chose Owyn's name. But since it's likely this one is a girl, we've been stumped. I haven't loved anything and he hasn't come up with anything. Just a few days ago, we added our first possibility to the list! It's the first name we've both said "Huh, I kinda like that". Gemma. I mentioned it a long time ago and DH didn't like it, but we just started watching the show Sons of Anarchy and there's a character named Gemma, so now he's decided he kinda likes it. It's definitely not official or anything, but I'm just glad we finally have one possibility!


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## mckittre

Nilla - Beautiful cake. A friend of mine made a cake for my wedding too - such a nice thing to do for someone.

Starling - the symptoms just aren't going to give you a break this time, huh? We've been outside quite a bit as well, but the fact that it's been constantly raining for the last month has cut down on that some.

Cindy - good luck on the babysitting coop! We had an informal sort of one here for a little bit, but it kind of fell apart as everyone got busy with the summer. We had mixed ages in ours. The older kids did great, but it was hard to do activities with them that were also appropriate for the two year olds. The two year olds were much more difficult - it seemed like the ones without a parent or an older sibling there spent half the time melting down each time we tried it. I kind of wanted to get Katmai used to being away from family, but maybe it was too much work for everyone.

Discipline - We don't do time outs but occasionally threaten to "hold" him in place for a minute when he does something dramatically wrong (like hitting his sister with a hard toy). Mostly he's fairly easygoing, and though he often wants to take whatever toy the baby's playing with, we have successfully instituted a rule that he has to bring her a new toy first.

Whining is another story. With constant reminders, I can get him to ask for things nicely. What I can't figure out is how to get him to stop repeating what he wants over and over and over and over again (usually in increasing volume) regardless of what my answer is. This morning we were making breakfast. I suggested waffles and he immediately started screaming about pancakes. OK, pancakes, no big deal. Then we're mixing the pancake batter and he starts having his own opinion about the ingredients. "Can we add some vanilla?" "Vanilla" "No it DOES need vanilla!" "Vanilla, vanilla, vanilla" "Please, I want some vanilla" "The pancake batter NEEDS some vanilla" and on and on and on... Then we're cooking them: "Those pancakes are ready" "No they are ready!" "They are all cooked" "They ARE ready!" "THEY ARE READY!" over and over again until the pancakes finally are ready. Even if I can get him to turn down the volume or add polite words like "please", the incessant repetition drives me nuts - I don't know how to stop him from asking or telling everything over and over again until he gets the response he wants. Of course it's my fault too, because I do give in to him sometimes. I let him choose pancakes instead of waffles, I did let him pour some molasses in the batter, and of course the pancakes were eventually ready. Ignoring him doesn't work, he will repeat the same sentence for ten minutes in a row if he doesn't get a response. He uses this same strategy to interrupt adult conversations, and I'm trying to brainstorm how to teach him to interrupt in a more polite way.


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## Vegan Princess

Erin: Ha! We've had the EXACT same convo over here. Makenna has been known to meltdown about me having to cook the pancakes. Often if I show her them cooking and explain what is going on it calms her for a bit. Not always though. I am trying to explain the concept of patience to her. Bc like you said, even if I say yes to what she wants, she gets all worked up about needing it asap, even if I'm in the middle of something short.

Blessed mom: There are 6 moms and 6 kids. We each take turns hosting at our house. We are doing 2 days week for 4 hours each day, We have a spreadsheet set up that shows which kids are coming on which days. On any day where there are more than 3 kids signed up, we have a babysitter coming to help. She is a graduating high school senior that most of the moms know and love (I don't know her, but I know her mom). On the days when the sitter comes, each mom pays $10 for the day (except for the mom watching). It works out to needing to host every 5th or 6th time. A very affordable way to get some time to oneself! Makenna is so excited. She asked me today if she could go to "the swap thing where all the different mommies watch me". She said (without me asking) that she isn't going to cry. LOL. It is going to be interesting watching that many kids for 4 hours but at least I'll have help and the weather is nice so we can play outside.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Nilla: You are so talented! That cake is incredible!

Starling: I'm dealing with heartburn too. Not fun! So excited that you are almost done with work! That is fantastic. It will probably be so great for E to have some special time with Mama before baby comes too.

Cindy: That co-op sounds really great! How nice to have a tight network of mom friends to put something like that together. I'll be excited to hear how your preschool co-op works out too. Last night I was looking at the website of the Montessori preschool where I used to work. It really has me thinking... I'm more drawn to Waldorf principles but I think Montessori might be an excellent fit for my little girl. Maybe Montessori for school and Waldorf at home if such a thing is possible! Of course we have neither option available here!! But I'm thinking ahead to when we move south.

Mal: I love the name Gemma! Too cute. We have the same list of 4 names going that we've had for a while. Violet, Hazel, Sylvia and Eliza. I'm not really sure which is my favorite because it changes! We may use the name Roisin (pronounced Ro-Sheen) which is Gaelic for Rose as a middle name. Not sure yet though, it will probably depend on which first name we pick. We'll do an irish/gaelic middle name for sure though. I'm leaning towards Violet or Hazel. Violet was my grandmothers name. My other grandmother was Loretta and I LOVE that name but DH doesn't and I don't want it shortened to Laura which it seems may be inevitable. Baby naming is hard work!

Funny Story:

Fiona has figured out how to open the bathroom door which we never lock. She walked in on DH sitting on the toilet.

F: You goin' potty Papa?

DH: yep

F: Oh, I sit on my stool like Mama and tell you a story. Once upon a time there was a little girl named Papa. He walked to the barn to see all the animals. Mama and Nona came too...

I was enjoying a good laugh from the other room!


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## Everrgreen

AK - LOL! That is so funny! Our bathroom door is always open and R will ask "Are you going poo?" He hasn't told me a story yet though 

And I think Violet and Hazel are my favourites from your list too. They are all very pretty names, I would have a hard time deciding on just one!

Cindy - Your coop sounds great! I'm sure the break will be very nice for all you moms and nice for the kids to have some social time. I wish I had something like that for R! But he will be in daycare in September so I'll just wait until then.

mckittre - R repeats himself over and over and over until I respond too. He doesn't escalate it though, just patiently repeats himself over and over. Most days I get so exhausted just from talking to him all day long and responding to the 50 million things he says!

Mal - Gemma is such a cute name! I think it goes well with Owyn too. Owyn and Gemma - aww 

And we don't have the whole ma'am/sir thing here (I think that's a more southern thing?), but R often will say 'yes mommy' or 'no mommy' and I love it. Much nicer sounding then just yes or no.

Nilla - Awesome job on the cake! You have some real talent there!

R is still having diarrhea. I think it's been about 3 weeks (I can't remember exactly, but it's been a long time!). His dr appt got postponed til next Tuesday which is probably a good thing. I'm not even sure if he should get the DTaP shot while he's having diarrhea? Today he had an accident in the grocery store. He started crying that he had to go potty and was saying 'ouch ouch' and holding his stomach. I ran him out to the car to use his little potty but it was too late. He goes probably 4-5 times a day and it varies from loose poo to really watery diarrhea. But he's playing and eating normally (with the exception of last weekend when he was sick - but he had the diarrhea before that and it has continued after).


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## justKate

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl*
> 
> Mal: I love the name Gemma! Too cute. We have the same list of 4 names going that we've had for a while. Violet, Hazel, Sylvia and Eliza. I'm not really sure which is my favorite because it changes! We may use the name Roisin (pronounced Ro-Sheen) which is Gaelic for Rose as a middle name. Not sure yet though, it will probably depend on which first name we pick. We'll do an irish/gaelic middle name for sure though. I'm leaning towards Violet or Hazel. Violet was my grandmothers name. My other grandmother was Loretta and I LOVE that name but DH doesn't and I don't want it shortened to Laura which it seems may be inevitable. Baby naming is hard work!


Sue, I love your names. Aubs' middle name is for my grandma, Ruth. Ruth's three sisters were Edith, Gladys, and Aileen. I like "old lady names" a lot. I met a 6 month old last week named Louisa; my great-grandma's name was Lottie. I also like Ruby, but I think its getting popular. My other grandma is Emma Jean, so if we have another girl some day her middle name will be Jean. Of your choices I like Hazel best. You could call her Hattie. I also like Elise. My all-time favorite name is Adia, but DH wouldn't go for any of these names, so they're up for grabs!

Mal, I like Gemma a lot too. I recently met a Gemma that I really liked--the first I'd heard the name. She is a Brit in DH's MBA program, and sweet, so it has good vibes for me.


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## mckittre

Mal - Gemma is cute, and I've never met one, so I don't think it'd be overused.

AK - I've always really liked Hazel as a name - I think it's very pretty. The others on your list are nice too.

Baby naming is funny. With both of my kids, each time we had one name we thought of right away that just clicked, and struggled with the other gender name. For Katmai, we struggled with a possible girl name, and with Lituya, we struggled with a possible boy name. And then the kids showed up and decided to make it easy for us by matching our favorite names.

Super low tides here this week! (-4 feet or so) I got it together to throw both kids in the bike trailer in the rain to be on the beach by 9AM, and am so glad I did. Katmai had a blast looking for sand dollars, poking sea anemones, and gathering dead chitons. Probably will do it again tomorrow and Friday, maybe with some other kids as well.


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## Vegan Princess

I like the name Gemma.  Ruby is Makenna's middle name. I have no idea about future names other than I know the middle name will be Rose. I think sort of have a boy name but I think I might be sick of it now that we've been tossing it around for 3 yrs.


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## Everrgreen

mckittre - going tidepooling sounds so cool! I would love to do something like that with R!

I love reading everyone's babynaming ideas  When I was pregnant some of the other names I considered for R were Lee, Oren, Ellis, Errol, and if he had been a girl the name would have been Adaline (Addie for short). I'm not crazy about that girl name anymore but I still like all my boy name options. I also really like the name Coen (ever since someone in our ddc used it for her son). According to the tea leaf lady I saw last fall I'm going to have only boys so I guess I'm all set for names 

R is still having diarrhea (although today it was more loose poop). And yesterday he threw up at the grocery store. We were just walking through the produce section and he said "my tummy's sick" and then immediately vomited and then said "I feel better". Lovely. I had to run to the bathroom strip his clothes and shoes off and wrap everything in paper towels. Then because I already had stuff in my cart and only had a few things left to get I finished my shopping with him sitting there happy as can be in just his boxers. I'll have to talk to the dr about all of this at his appt on Tuesday. I'm sort of worried just because it's lasting so long (the diarrhea anyway - the vomiting he only did twice when he had the cold last weekend and then yesterday at the store). But he's eating normally and playing and seems 'fine' otherwise.


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: How is R doing?

Our thread is dwindling! How was everyone's father's day?? Starling - do you guys celebrate it at all? I know a gay dad (he is a stay at home dad and his husband works) and he celebrates mothers day and fathers day. He says he deserves both. LOL. Ours was pretty mellow. FIL is here until tomorrow morning. DH is running a 15 mile, hilly trail race next weekend so he went for a 2 hour run and did all sorts of errands he wanted to do. Finally he BBQed up a feast for us. But we didn't actually go out of the house and do anything special as a family. Ah well, I think DH spent it mostly how he wanted for having his father here.

Babysitting co-op starts tomorrow. I'll be spending those 4 hours scrubbing my house after FIL leaves. And the carpet cleaners are coming on Tuesday to clean the carpet in the room where he stayed (the only carpet in the house!), our rug in the living room and the couch. On the plus side, the couch is pretty beat up from all the spitting up M did on it - so maybe the cleaning will get it looking new again. Maybe. Then 2 days later my brother in law arrives. But I'm pretty sure he won't be leaving a trail if ick for me to clean up. ;-) I should say, other than the yuck factor, my FIL is very nice and it hasn't been bad having him here otherwsie. I think M will be so sad when he leaves.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy, glad the visit wasn't too bad. It sounds like you made the most of it. Carpet cleaning does sound like a good idea though!

Everrgreen: Wondering how R is doing? Doesn't sound like fun at all!

We went to a friends wedding reception last night. They got married last month in Hawaii but had a great party here for local friends. Tons of kids and dogs everywhere. It was a potluck and people brought such great food! (says the pregnant lady who had 2 plates!) Fiona was amazingly outgoing and jumped in to play with kids and interact with various adult friends. I was amazed really! But we payed for it today... meltdown city around our house. I think it took a lot out of her to take that leap forward. I do think it was worth it though and it made me so happy to see her like that when she usually wouldn't leave DH or me for anything in that type of situation. I think it also helped that we could be outside a lot of the time.

We went for a nice family walk to collect beach glass this morning which was great. Then spent the rest of the day in the yard. We even had the sprinkler out for a bit which was a hit! When it's sunny and 55 in Kodiak you have to celebrate! So in between meltdowns and crabbiness we did have a good day! She peed her pants 3 times today though! Grr... after nearly a month and half I wasn't really expecting that. I think it had a lot to do with her mood though. Any suggestion by us, potty or otherwise, was met with a firm NO! Stubborn little thing! Tomorrow is going to be a back to basics day... nakey baby all day as long as we are home.


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## Mal85

Our Father's Day was pretty good. We spent the weekend in St. Louis with friends. They just bought a new house, so we went for their housewarming party and to take Owyn sightseeing. We took her to the Magic House on Saturday which is a really cool children's museum and she LOVED it! I think she would have moved in there to stay if she could. It was pretty crowded since it was a Saturday so I thought it would take her a little bit to warm up, but she jumped right in and had a great time! Then, we took her to the zoo yesterday morning and she was pretty amazed seeing all the animals. We also took the train ride around the zoo, I think that was her favorite part. Saturday, she never got a nap because we were out all day. But that worked out nicely, she was ready for bed just after the housewarming party started, so DH and I got to enjoy adult time for the night. We spent the rest of our Father's Day driving across the state to come home.

Yesterday I also hit my halfway mark! 20 weeks down, 20-ish to go! I was supposed to have my ultrasound on Friday, but they called first thing in the morning and said their tech was sick so we had to reschedule. I was, and still am, super bummed about that. I had taken the day off work, DH was taking off at lunch and my mom was taking off early so we could all go and make a special day of it. Now, I'm scheduled to go tomorrow, but DH can't take off again so he's going to miss it. He missed it with Owyn too, so I was really hoping he could come this time.









Two more weeks of daycare, then I have a full two weeks off! Woo hoo!!! We have friends coming into town for the weekend of the 4th of July and that kicks off my vacation time. I think we're going to see if Owyn can spend the night with the ILs one night and go camping with friends. After the holiday, I get to spend my time off going through baby stuff and getting ready for a garage sale.

Oh and tomorrow is when the preschool makes their decision! They have a board meeting tomorrow evening to make the final decision so I should know something this week. Everyone keep your fingers crossed for me!!


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Definitely keeping my fingers crossed for you! Your weekend away sounds nice and so does your upcoming holiday  That sucks that your dh will miss the ultrasound though. Did he go for your last one?

Sounds like everyone had a nice weekend 

We had a fun weekend too. I had a yard sale Saturday which sucked. I have decided I hate yard sales and would rather just donate anything I have. It's just so frustrating to have something in awesome condition that I paid $50 for and someone rolls their eyes at a $5 price tag. And people pulling up in expensive cars saying they can only pay half of whatever I want. It's too frustrating. I have a few things I'm going to try and sell online but most of my stuff I'm just going to donate. And yesterday R and I went for a nice bike ride by the water and had a picnic.

R is feeling better (I think, sort of). Last Friday he had another random vomit out of nowhere. But Saturday he finally had a solid poop and that has mostly continued (no more diarrhea, but still some loose poop). He has his first DTaP vaccine tomorrow and I will mention all this to the dr just in case but I think he should be ok to go ahead with it. I'm still worried about whether or not this is the right decision.

I'm getting stressed about school now too. It's time to start apartment hunting and so I have to face the reality of how expensive this is going to be. And I've tried calling and emailing R's daycare to see if he has a spot and no one ever responds. I'm assuming they have limited hours through the summer but I still would think someone would be there to respond!


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## Everrgreen

Just heard back from the daycare. We are still 85th on the waiting list. Now what do I do?...


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: 85th?! Holy moly! Check out home daycares and people looking for nanny shares. That one is on campus, right? Perhaps there are other relatively close by? Eeck. I'm sorry. You must be feeling pretty stressed. I'm sure it will get worked out some how.

Mal: Your weekend sounds fun! Makenna is still mostly afraid of the little steam trains. But we took her on the BART train (our version of the subway) this weekend and she loved it. She loved that it didn't go "woo woo". I guess the noise scares her. Sorry about the ultrasound. I'd be bummed too! Does your phone or camera take video? Perhaps the tech would let you video the baby moving on the screen a bit. I've seen videos like this before.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Glad to hear that everyone had a great Father's Day!

Oh my goodness, *Ever* ... 85th? Yikes! I'm sending you some safe, affordable care vibes for R!

*Cindy* ... My partner gets Father's Day as her special day. We call it Baba's Day. We actually did it on Saturday though because DP worked yesterday. We took her to the Harley Davidson store to pick out her present (a HD hoody and riding googles) and then went to an indoor play space (RAIN!!!!) and then out for lunch before she went to work. Lots of fun!

*AFM*: I'll likely be a little MIA coming up. So many changes on MDC, with some big questionable actions around homophobic ad links and the MDC reaction and subsequent moderator shut down of the discussion around this. This, together with the general tone of the boards lately, the contributions way down, the sleazy way that the magazine went out of print while still taking paid memberships, the moving away from AP/NFL values ... I just don't know. I'm trying to decide if I want to support this place. Sad times for sure.


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## mckittre

starling - even if you abandon the rest of the boards, maybe you could still subscribe to our thread? We'd all miss you!

Glad everyone had a good father's day. We did nothing special at all, except my sister-in-law got into town for a visit and we all went out to breakfast with my husband's dad. Which means he didn't get the one thing he wanted for father's day - to sleep in! Will do that for him tomorrow.

Everr - 85th on the waiting list?! And they didn't tell you right away? Good luck on the scramble to find something else. How many kids are in the daycare to have that big a waiting list? Funny about your name list. One of Katmai's best friends is an Ellis, and we know a little Adaline (not sure of spelling) as well. And there aren't that many kids here - maybe 15 or so in this age range.

mal - good luck on the preschool!

Katmai's becoming quite the little naturalist now that it's summer. It's amazing how quickly they learn - he knows about as many tidepool creatures as I do now, as well as a bunch of edible and poisonous plants, most of the different garden plants, a few birds, etc.. I have to keep an eye on him though - he loves picking and eating plants and his ID skills aren't quite trustworthy enough for me to leave him alone at it yet (though he's usually right).


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## Everrgreen

Well I called around and found another daycare nearby that will "most likely" have a spot for September, so I'm on their waiting list. $65 a day! I'm not totally surprised, I was figuring around $50/day. Still pretty crazy though. There is also a ymca nearby, no one answered my call so I've emailed them. We'll see! I am on the waiting list for subsidized daycare but was told it would be a year or two. I am also debating moving to my mom's city and commuting. The commute would really suck (around 1.5 hours depending on traffic) but my rent and daycare costs would be cheaper. And R would only need to be in daycare 3-4 days a week (my mom could watch him the other days). R would have less time in daycare but also less time with me (thanks to the commute and no ability for mid day visits). Lots to think about!

Starling - I'm also feeling sad about the direction MDC is going. I don't feel the same sense of community. And I can't believe some of the things I read around here now. I hope you will still come and check in with us. We also still have that fb group (although no one has posted there in forever). If you get a fb account we could keep in touch there  I'm going to pm you my full name so you can look me up if you decide to!


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: Nooo please don't leave us!!! I will be so sad to see you go. I'd hate to lose touch altogether. But I can totally understand the need to not support an organization that violates your beliefs! I was unaware of most of the issues you brought up. I don't get around on here a whole lot anymore, other than our thread and some infertility threads. People are very supportive on those threads.

What if we all started a yahoo group or a google group and sent emails that way? I think the only difference is that they would come directly to us. If anyone doesn't want to use their real name, they can create an email account with their user id.

Everr: I'm glad you have options!! I think personally I would want to skip the commute. I think it will kill you to lose 3 hours/day with R that you'll be spending in the car! Especially since your time will be so precious b/w class and studying. It's so wonderful that you have that option to consider though!

It's amazing how much work you can get done around the house in 4 kid free hours! M didn't bat an eye when I left her this morning. Probably bc the co-op was at her best little friend's house today (even though it was not that mom watching today). I've cleaned my entire house, top to bottom. Yay!! And I still have a half hour left.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Ever: 85th! Goodness you would have had to have him on the list the day he was born to get in it sounds like! I hope one of these other options pan out. I'm with Cindy on the commute. I don't think I could handle it!

Cindy: Awesome to get some free time! Starting this week I have a high school girl coming two morning a week to be with Fiona. She'll take her off to play or spend the time here while I get some things done. I'm excited. One thing I was planning to do was make t-shirts (like the ones in my etsy shop) to have ready for the winter bazaar in town. DH is begging me to reconsider since it is 3 weeks after I'm due. Do you guys think I'm crazy to try to do this?! I really want your feedback. It's an all day event but I can get help... I really enjoyed doing it last year but I do see his point.

Starling: I'll be sad to see you go to. I rarely check in anywhere else on MDC besides here and the Oct DDC. Too much has changed and it doesn't feel the same anymore. I do understand where you are coming from. Maybe another venue would be better for all of us. I'm open to it!


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## Thursday Girl

Mal, I LOVE Gemma!! It has always been on our list but never quite made it to child's name. As have Violet and Hazel. I say go with the grandma's name, since you have one you love. My Josephine thinks it is so neat she is named after her great grandma, and her best friend Clastel (and her sister Aurelia) are both named after their grandma's and they appreciate it.

well Hello again,, everyone. sorry to have been gone so long, I have been trying to avoid the computer for the most part and just access through my phone mostly just to keep the amount of time online down to a reasonable amount (and I have spent the last 2 weeks reading books 1-6 of harry potter and have delved into #7)

June is completely potty trained, day and night, well I guess not completely as she peed in her pants the other day, but that hadn't happened in weeks. Her speech is improving but I think still lagging a bit behind. Her physical development and coordination is well above average though so I try to comfort myself with this. She has begun to give up naps, and when she takes them stays up until 10-12 at night. I am amazed that her naps have even lasted this long because my other two gave them up shortly after their first birthday. DH's work has picked up, the settlement from the fiasco straightened us out financially. We ripped out one wall in the back room and I am still waiting for construction to begin but have little hope that it will really happen, although DH keeps insisting it will. We do have AC now which he meant all along to tackle before the back room. (it has been 6 years without central AC and heat). Turns out DH would like to try and have a son and I am sure that is why he is refusing to get the snip snip. I don't want anymore children at all, certainly not in a house that we are only using 2 bedrooms of and between 900-1000 sf of. 4 kids in that,no freaking way! Plus I want to move on from this stay at home thing and make some things happen for me. although horror of horrors just as I typed that I contemplated having another baby. INSANE.

I'm not sure if I am going to delve all the way back into computer time, I do want to keep up with you all, but I so enjoyed not being tethered to the computer like I had been.I wish I could have a high lights thread. LOL> there are pages and pages to go through to fully catch up with you all and I am not sure how I could swing it.

oh I am headed to colorado for a week this summer my sister is flying the girls and I out, then mid July my other sister is flying just me to Minneapolis. (oh that's the other news, my last sister has made a summer move away from me, I am so sad to have lost the last of my sister to a move.) Then at some point the whole family is driving to colonial williamsburg and then on up to sesame place in PA. well must go feed kids.,I hope to be back soon with you all


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## justKate

Funny we all find ourselves in the same boat at the same time. My internet time is so much more limited now that I'm at home!

Does everyone do Facebook? Everr, I know I'm friends with you... I'll PM everyone with my name and maybe we can go that route.

Starling, IKWYM about the tone here. Not sure what happened, but there are only a few threads that I frequent anymore. And the subscription part was especially shitty IMO--I only got 2 issues after paying for 12. More to say, but don't want to get dinged for violating the UA.

Courtney, it is liberating being away from the computer a bit! I can't imagine doing 4 kids in that space, but I know that people do more with less....

Aubs is attacking the keyboard now so I need to go....


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## Vegan Princess

Hi Courtney! Nice to see you. Wow, interesting news about a potential baby #4! I think most houses where I live are around that size or not much bigger. Most people stick to 2 kids, occasioanlyl 3. But sometimes you hear of 4 kids in 1 bedroom on 2 sets of bunk beds. It can definitely be done. Maybe it will inspire your DH to get that other room done. I hope you enjoy your travel! I'm especially curious about sesame place.

Makenna woke up dry this morning! She has woken up to pee the last 2 nights and then held it until morning. We've been doing diapers at night but they are a huge pain. So I bought a couple night time trainers off diaperswappers. I hope you doesn't have gigantic pees and leek from those though. I may add a doubler to them. But at least they will be easy to pull up and down and she will eventually be able to do it herself. She is managing her panties and pants a lot better but usually at least needs help getting them up. She's been surprising me the past few days and taking herself potty and managing most of it on her own. I am trying to get rid of the m&m reward. There has been a lot of whining involved.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy, what kind of trainer did you get? I just bought some imse vimse training pants for longer outings and a plane trip Fiona and I are taking next month. I'm not sure if they are night worthy though. She almost always wakes up dry though. If I can get her out of the diaper right away she'll take herself potty on he own but she resists that in the AM. Hard to get out of cozy jammies!

I'm also feeling a need to break away from the computer a bit. I spend too much time on it...

Courtney, sort of fun to be thinking about #4! I love the idea of a big family. DH isn't sure! LOL! We'll see how we manage #2 and go from there. At least he hasn't ruled out more kiddos. Good luck making progress on your house renovations!


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## Mal85

Gah! I'm so frustrated today. I was supposed to go get my sonogram this morning and they called saying their sonographer is still out and had to reschedule AGAIN! Apparently, her son is really sick and being admitted to the hospital. And I really do feel for her and don't blame her at all, I'm just really frustrated that the office hasn't done more by now to get someone to fill in. This is their 4th day in a row they've had to cancel all their sonogram appointments, you'd think they would be more prepared for situations like this. I did get annoyed with the lady that called me because she was pretty bitchy about the whole thing, so I got kind of bitchy right back and told her this will now be three times I have to rearrange my work schedule just to get to this appointment and that they should be more prepared for this or have a regular back up for this sort of thing. I mean, their office is in a huge hospital and there's another women's clinic right next door to them, I can't believe they couldn't get their act together in a more efficient way. She called back a little while later and said they have a fill-in coming in tomorrow so they could get me in first thing in the morning. I'd better be able to get it done this time!!

Anyway, good news is that Owyn pooped on the potty yesterday! And it wasn't even by accident like it has been before! I just hope it continues.


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Oh that sucks! They really should have better back up. At least you will get in tomorrow! And that's great that Owyn is starting to poop on the potty! Yay!

Cindy - I'm jealous of M's ability to pull her pants up and down lol! R still needs me to do that. I can sometimes convince him to pull them down on his own (and he can if he tries). When he tries and pulls them up it's a disaster and I need to fix them. And usually he just insists that I do both.

Kate - So how are you enjoying being home with Aubs??

Courtney - R is the same way with naps (when he has them, he's up late). But most days he gets so tired and cranky in the afternoon that he needs that nap.

I also have an internet addiction. I am so bored though so I need it. I don't have that much cleaning to do with just me and Royce. And in the evenings I have nothing else to do. Oh well. Once I start school I'll be busy and won't have as much time to waste.

So I think I've decided to move to my mom's city. The commute is the only con weighing against a huge stack of pros. It is significantly cheaper, I'll have a lot more help with R, it's a much nicer city in general that I know I will love living in and it's where I hope to get a job after I finish school. If the commute does end up being too much I can always move again. So that's my plan! I hope it works out!

Today was R's dr appt but we didn't get the vax yet. The DTaP vax that they have is only for ages 4 and up. The one for R's age is DTap-IPV. And I just wasn't prepared to do that one. The dr gave me the inserts for both vaccines as well as for the TD only which is for age 7 and up. I just cannot decide and I am so sick of researching all of this!!


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## Maze of Mirrors

Everrgreen, you're getting one of those bike seats? Are you scared? I wanted one but so many people (yep family) have told me its too dangerous. (although it wasn't dangerous when my sister and I were on one) Anyway, my son was born in 2/09 also but he's just over 40lbs. When you try it out, can you let me know?


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: They are scotty potty. I didn't pick them out. They were just available used on diaperswappers and looked like they would work. I didn't realize until just now that they are meant for boys - oh well, I'm sure they will work just fine. I got 2 for $15. There are some cool ones that are stuffable. But the ones I've found new are $30/pair. I can bring myself to spend that. I can justify $25 on a diaper that gets used for 2 yrs and again with another child but trainers hopefully won't be used all that long.

http://www.pottyscotty.com/mi-00078.html

I do think you need to use ones meant for overnight.

Everr: Must be nice to have your mind made up. And you're right - you can always move again later if the commute is too much. Maybe if a spot opens up at the preschool eventually. Oh and don't be too jealous - M mostly still makes me pull her pants up and down. And it is very rare that she can even manage both on her own.

Mal: Yay for pooping on the potty! Hope you *finally* get your ultrasound tomorrow!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maze of Mirrors*
> 
> Everrgreen, you're getting one of those bike seats? Are you scared? I wanted one but so many people (yep family) have told me its too dangerous. (although it wasn't dangerous when my sister and I were on one) Anyway, my son was born in 2/09 also but he's just over 40lbs. When you try it out, can you let me know?


You must have been reading an old post! I got the bike seat last year and we biked all summer and have been biking a lot this year too. I really like it. I have the WeeRide Kanagaroo which attaches in front of my seat. I was a bit nervous at first with the extra weight and the balance but it was an easy adjustment. It feels safe having him right there in front of me and between my arms. Plus he can point things out to show me and I can talk to him while we ride. It's great!


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## Maze of Mirrors

Yeah, I'll get the hang of this 

Thanks for the review...I really want one.


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## AKislandgirl

So Mama's... anyone done the dentist yet? When is that appropriate? I really have no clue when I'm "supposed" to take her and when she'd cooperate with a dentist visit. We brush every night and she has even begun to let me floss her teeth. I need to start getting in the habit of brushing her teeth in the morning too...

Everr: nice to have made a decision about where you will be living. So glad to hear you will have help from your mom. What are the daycare's looking like there?

Our neighbor is out of town for a month. His house sitter just got back from fishing... traded us a fresh Sockeye for a dozen eggs! Sweet!


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## Mal85

Sue: Most dentists I've looked into start seeing them when they turn 3. I could take her before that, but they seem to prefer she be able to go back and sit on her own. Apparently, Mommy can be quite a distraction. My sister works for an orthodontist and this is what she recommends too. Also, if you have the option, go for a pediatric dentist. It'll be so worth it, they are trained to work with the little ones and it'll be a lot easier on the kid. My friend recently took her 2.5 year old for the first time and she said it went really well. Her daughter actually went back to the room by herself, no problem! I have to go in after I have the baby to have some fillings replaced, so I thought I'd probably bring it up with my dentist then and see what she suggests.

I FINALLY got my ultrasound today. We are definitely having a baby girl! I was still half-expecting to hear boy since our last ultrasound didn't get a real good look, but this was clear as day! Now, if only we could think of a name that sticks...


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## Everrgreen

I've been wondering about dentists too. I haven't been myself in ages! When I start school I will have extra health coverage for dental visits for myself (R is covered under government health care) so we will go in the fall. He brushes at least once a day sometimes twice. He always wants to do it himself and I do mostly let him but sometimes will do a quick once-over myself just in case he missed a spot!

So I'm looking at 2 different options for daycare. The one is a waldorf-based centre and it looks awesome and it is $37/day. The other is about a block away from my mom's house and is affiliated with an elementary school and is $30/day. The elementary school is catholic and so if the daycare is really religious I don't know if I would be comfortable sending him there. But it is cheaper. I'll have to keep looking too as I'm sure there are other options around. There was a 3rd option I thought looked great, it was an nature-focused private home daycare but the woman who runs it just had a baby and is taking a year off.


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## Vegan Princess

M was supposed to see the dentist last Friday but he got sick and had to reschedule. It is pediatric. Supposedly they mostly spend the first visit riding up and down in the chair and learning about the envrionment. Some friends have brought their kids a year ago and some have not yet. I felt motivated to take her though bc she developed these lines on her front teeth a few months ago and then below the line started turning opaque! But since then it has gotten better. So now I wonder if maybe it is just a stain we started to get off. I was really afraid the enamel was wearing away! So we shall see. I also hear that if they start young they get used to it and don't freak out when you take them like they do when they go for the first time when they know they are supposed to be afraid of the dentist.

Toured another co-op preschool this morning to get ideas for our own. But both my friend and I really fell in love with it. So now we are wondering if maybe we will do our own through december and then switch to this one. We are comitted to the one we are setting up through the end of the yr. But this place had so many more resources and awesome things to offer that we won't be able to have in the place we are renting bc it is not our own space full time. Much to think about. I could also walk to this place in 5 minutes. But it is a 4 days/week program - too much. But the teacher told me she would be willing to work out a part time schedule with me if I'd like. It was totally play based and so laid back. Some of the kids were painting their faces and bodies with pens while we were there and no one cared - they just got out the pens they bought for drawing on bodies. They also spend a lot of the day outside and use one of those farmer's market tents for rainy days.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Yay for a sister for Owyn! I love seeing the baby on the u/s, don't you?! Out little one was really wiggly last time. We did one last week because they couldn't see everything they needed in her heart the first time. I was really nervous about heart problems but everything looked great this time.

Names... yep, that's the hard part!

Everr: A waldorf based place would be awesome! How great to have options to think about!

Cindy: Fun to get preschool ideas too! I'm glad you saw a place that really meshed with you.

So back to some potty learning talk... after so much success the glory must be wearing off. Fiona is having multiple accidents a day now where she wasn't before. I don't want to stress about it but it sucks to deal with wet clothes all the time! I've pretty much given up on clothes at home which helps but often it will happen right after we get home from some place. I'll ask her if she has to go and she'll say no. 5 minutes later she'll pee her pants. Sigh! I was thinking about getting some water proof training pants (basically cloth pull ups) and just leave her be. If she wets she wets if she tells me she tells me and we get her to the potty. Do you think I will regret this going backwards or is it the right thing to do? I'd be annoyed if someone was always asking me if I had to pee. I just don't really know where to go from here. I felt bad when our sitter had to deal with it too. I do worry that she'll think of them as diapers and we'll be back to square one. I'd love your thoughts on this one...

These are the trainers I was looking at... these and these. I also have some imse vimse which have a hidden water proof layer in them coming. I worry that the ones with PUL on the outside will seem to much like diapers to her but I do think they will be the most effective and keeping her clothes dry. Maybe I'll get them for nights... With the etsy sellers I can at least send in the prefolds I recently bought and have them converted.


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## Mal85

The preschool is offering me the job!! I got the call this morning! I feel like a huge weight has now been lifted from my shoulders. Just yesterday I asked my daycare family what they were thinking as far as returning to work since having their baby and they told me they were really leaning towards her becoming a SAHM. She said she's really struggling with the thought of having two in daycare when she could be with them. I was really starting to stress after talking to her and was so afraid I wouldn't get the job and they would pull out, and I'd be screwed. So, this makes me feel soooo much better! And I love that it's part time, half the hours I work now for more money! Now, I just have to break the news to them that I'm pregnant...


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## mckittre

Mal - Yay for the job!

AK - When Katmai was doing that, I started just taking off his pants when I knew he'd have to go soon, and let him take himself to the potty. Seemed to make it a lot less struggle.


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## AKislandgirl

Mal! That is fantastic news! I'm so happy for you! You so deserve this! Won't it be nice to have your house back to just your family? Part time too and for more money... perfect!  I'm sure you are feeling so relieved.

Well I asked Fiona if she wanted to start wearing diapers again after she had multiple accidents in a row. Not in a mean way but really wanting to know. She was very adamant that she did not! So I told her she had to keep practicing getting to the potty and that our pee goes in the potty and not in her pants. We'll see how this goes. I still think we'll get some backup in the form of trainers though. About half an hour after we had the conversation I was folding laundry and happened to be folding some diapers. She thought I was getting it ready to put on her and yelled NO! and ran to her potty and peed! I hope I didn't freak the poor girl out!

Well our sitter is here so I'm off to clean the house...


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Yay! Congratulations!! How much maternity leave do you want to take? Will you be able to take Owyn and the new babe with you?

AK - I worry about R having a major potty regression bc it came so easy for him. The only accidents he has had were because of diarrhea. Except last night he peed in the bed. We are at my moms and he went to bed early bc of a long day. He seemed so confused that he had peed in the bed. Poor guy!

So I made lots of phone calls to different daycares today. The waldorf place I haven't heard from which isn't a good sign, they probably have a long wait list. The one at the catholic school has a close to 2 year wait list so that's also not going to work. But I am going to put R's name on it because that is the school I'll likely send him to (it has the french immersion program which I want R to take) and the wait list is the same for their grade school before/after school care. So I've found a few places that have openings. My favourite at the moment is a home daycare which is in a very nice residential area near a park and right between my mom's house and her work. And as she will be helping me with drop off/pick up and being the emergency contact I thought that would be good. So hopefully I can go see it and get that confirmed. Then I can move on to apartment hunting!


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## Thursday Girl

Mal, congrats!!!

Everr, 2 year waits!! Holy crap, I can't even imagine. if you didn't have any kids at all you'd have to get on the wait list before you even tried to concieve, that's insane!!!


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## Mal85

Thanks for the congrats! I'm not sure about maternity leave. I'm in the states so it's not usually great when it comes to maternity leave, and I'll be part time, so really they don't have to give me anything. I'll probably have to use up any time off I already have. Considering I'll only be there a couple of months before I have the baby, it's likely I could only end up getting a couple of weeks. I really don't know, I'll have to talk to them about it after the contract gets signed. I'm trying not to fret about it. It might suck for a little while, but I remind myself it's still only part time and it'll be well worth it to have more time with them overall.

And, yikes, those are long wait lists!! I hope one of your other options pans out or (fingers crossed) maybe you'll luck out with the waldorf-type place, that would be awesome!


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## AKislandgirl

Mal: Hope you had a great Anniversary! You have a lot to celebrate!

DH and I went out to dinner on Saturday for our anniversary. We even had a sitter. It was really nice! This was the first time we've ever been out to dinner without Fiona! It was lovely! I even had dessert... cheesecake!

We've been doing dome major decluttering and organizing around here. It feels good to be getting things in order before the baby comes. Nesting has set in for both of us apparently! I've really loved sorting the baby clothes and remembering Fiona wearing the various things. It seems so long ago! I have a feeling she is going to look huge to us when the new baby arrives.

I've been thinking about dong some story CD's for her for rest time. Let her get in the habit of lying down or relaxing in the bedroom while listening to a story. I'll have to hit the library to see what they have. I know my sisters and brothers kids have loved this but I think they may have been a bit older. I think it would be lovely to have her do rest time in the bedroom once baby arrives though. We aren't letting her nap much anymore since bedtime is really horrific when she does. I need to get to bed before 11:30!

Also, for those of you who's partners help to put your little ones to bed... how did you make that transition? I'd love for that to happen but I don't really know what to do! We though about both of us going in for a while and then I'd ease out of the picture. We have always stayed with her until she falls asleep and would like to continue that. On a non nap day that happens really fast for me!

I've just started reading a book I've had on my shelf for months... Buddhism for Mothers by Sarah Napthali. I'm only into the first chapter but so far I really like it. Lots of good reminders about being present with your children rather then auto pilot mode... I'm not Buddhist but I think I could learn a lot from this book. Do you guys have any favorite parenting books?


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## Mal85

Sue, so glad you guys had a great anniversary! Yours sounds a lot like ours was. We had a wedding to go to, but we didn't stay for the party after. We went out to eat instead. My mom kept Owyn for us and we went out to a steakhouse. It was delicious! This is the first time I've really gone out for a nice dinner since getting pregnant and I took full advantage of my pregnant appetite, totally let myself indulge. Even DH was impressed with how much I could put down, lol!

I've been putting off organizing all summer, but I have two weeks off starting this weekend and I'm going to get some work done! I do have the motivation that my sister and I will be having a garage sale in a couple of weeks, so I really have to go through our storage area and start purging. I'm glad I know what's going on with the job situation now, I can purge a whole lot more now that the daycare won't be in my house anymore.

I received my contract in the mail, so it's official, I've been offered the job. I start working on August 8. I called the principal and set up a meeting with him next week so I can get the faculty handbook and ask my hundreds of questions about curriculum and salary and the big one-- how to handle having the baby! I don't know if they know I'm pregnant yet. I was showing at my interview, but I didn't bring it up and they didn't ask about it, so we'll see what he says when he sees me next week. So, I have to finish out this week, off for two weeks then I only have 3 more weeks before I start my job! DH wants me to wait to tell the daycare families until after my two weeks off, but I feel like that's cutting things really close for them, so I'm thinking I'll talk to them this week before I take off. I'm a little nervous about those conversations.

My sister who is a SAHM is going to keep the kids for me while I'm working, but she's having a hysterectomy at the end of August, so she won't be able to for several weeks after that. I asked my SAHM friend if she would want to watch Owyn during those weeks, but she hasn't given me an answer yet. I'm a little nervous about having to find someone that Owyn doesn't know for that short amount of time. I have a distant cousin who does part-time baby sitting. She's a really great woman, but Owyn doesn't know her so I'm not sure how she would do with that. She's always been with me and it's comforting to know that she'll be with my sister when I'm working. She loves her and adores her cousin who will be there, I just hope it works out during her recovery time...


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## Vegan Princess

Happy anniversary belated, Sue & Mal!! 

Sue: I saw your post and then went to the bookstore to browse and drink coffee (M is at babysitting co-op this morning). I looked through the book you mentioned. I also found The Discipline Book by Dr. Sears and ordered that off amazon. And i am going to check out the No Cry Discipline Solution from the library. All gentle ways of disciplining. I hear Nurture Shock is a great book but haven't read it myself. Curious to see what others reccomend. I know Starling mentioned a couple a while ago and I have them on order from the library.

Mal: Congrats on the job! Not sure if I said it before. 

Not much new here. My BIL was here for the weekend. Lots of inlaw visits. Have the house to ourselves for about a week, them M and I go to San Diego to visit my family for 5 days. This morning was a good morning. M was whiny and had a meltdown about her seatbelt - until I explained to her why it had to be on her chest and not her tummy - and she actually understood and agreed! So wonderful to be able to diffuse that situation by explaining something to her! 

I'm in the lovely 2 week wait. I see the fertility dr on Thursday. Send me babydust everyone!!!

Cindy


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## mckittre

Mal - I guess it's official then. I hope it's a good change for you.

Cindy - baby dust!

AK - when we switched to a daddy bedtime we started out with both of us going all the way to lying down with him. Then I would only stay for a minute or two, then I moved to being part of the early stages only (passing him off to daddy after toothbrushing), etc... We still have a system where I do PJs, a bit of nursing, brush his teeth, then hand him off to daddy most nights. But daddy can do it all if the baby really needs me and he's fine with it.

Anniversaries - Our anniversary was solstice, and we decided to have half the town partying in the yard instead of doing anything just us. It was fun, though. We don't do much just us anymore (other than some after kid bedtime Netflix), partly because there's not a lot that seems "special" to do. I mean, we could go to the one restaurant in town, but we always go there as an extended family thing, and it wouldn't really seem all that romantic. And we could go hiking, which would be less work without the kids, but also it's so easy to take them along, and they like it, and it seems like an odd thing to ask for babysitting for. Right now we have my husband's sister and my mom visiting and we always have my mother-in-law around. But we've just been using the sitting to get work done.


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## AKislandgirl

Happy late anniversary to you too Erin! A party in the yard sounds great! We had a sitter and couldn't think of anything to do to extend our time out after dinner so we just came home! Such is life in these small towns, huh?! I hope you have a great time with visiting family. Do I remember that you have a guest yurt?

Someday when we move to our farm we talk about putting up a yurt... either while we build or fix up whatever house is there. Somehow I doubt we'll be able to get the property we want with an existing livable house. Maybe I'm wrong though. I'll have to pick your brain when the time comes. I envision using the yurt for guests and my studio/Mama space when we are in the "big" house! A girl can dream right? If I can't have a whole yurt I at least want a room that is just mine... close the door, don't have to clean up all of my crafting supplies before we have a place to eat dinner! Bliss!


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - sending you lots of baby dust!!!

Mal - I hope all your big talks go well. Congrats again on the job! You must be so excited!

I had the weekend off and got together with friends. We went white water rafting which was awesome! And the next day we went to a provincial park for a picnic, hike, and swim. It was a great weekend  I do miss R when I go away but I need these breaks and I'm so glad I get to have them! Today I toured 2 daycares. They aren't the most convenient locations but I thought I would check them out just for comparison. I'm pretty sure I'm leaning towards the home daycare option, but I won't get to meet that lady until mid-July. I did get some good news from one of the daycares though, she said there is currently no wait list for a daycare subsidy in this town! YAY! I called them last week but I'm still waiting to hear back. I should qualify though. And apartment hunting is going ok but I haven't found the right place yet.


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## justKate

Mal, Sue, Erin, happy belated anniversaries!

Mal, I hope the job works out well. I'm anxious to hear how they respond to your pg announcement--I can see myself in that position down the road and I'd be nervous about it. Of course it will work out fine!

Cindy, baby dust to you! I'm CD1 here so it will be a while for me. Keep us posted when its time to test.

Everr--I hope you find the right place for R. Sometimes I think daycare decisions are harder on us than they are on the little ones!


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## Mal85

It's been slow here this week!

Everr- Hope apartment hunting is going well. I can't wait to start looking for a new place! Right now, we're just focusing on getting this house ready to sell, which I imagine will take us a good couple of years. But by then, we'll be ready to buy! I actually have my eye on a really great house here in town. They're currently asking way too much for it, so I hope it stays on the market for a good, long time!

I talked to my daycare families this week and it went much better than expected. Everyone was actually excited for me and said it sounds like a great opportunity. My one full-time family said this really helps them make the the decision about her staying at home and she'll only have to worry about care for her two for a couple of weeks before she can quit her job. The other family has already come up with care since they had someone filling in for me this month while I'm off, they just asked the same person to take over when I go to work. And everyone is planning on staying until I start my job, so I won't be losing anyone right away.

This is helping me get a lot more excited about the job! I have some nervous jitters about going back to work and the fact that I'll be the only teacher. I've usually worked as an assistant, so there was always someone else in the classroom. I do worry about how that will play out when I need to pump for the new baby, that's on my long list of questions for the principal when I meet with him next week! I fully realize that the first several months, maybe even the first full year, will be difficult... just making the transition and having a baby in the midst of it all. But I really think in the long run, it will be the best thing for us. I'm very excited about having holiday time off with my kids and the whole summer every year! That, along with it being part time, make it all worth it to me!

I hope everyone has a great holiday weekend this weekend! I get to kick off my two weeks off this weekend, woo hoo!


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy: How are your nerves holding up during the 2ww? I'm sending you lots of baby dust!

Mal: I'm sure the adjustment will be challenging but I think you are right about the benefits. It will be so great to have the summers off, holidays as a family, and your house to yourself! I'm glad the families were supportive and excited for you! I hope you enjoy your upcoming 2 weeks off too! Be sure to put your feet up a lot and relax!

Fiona is currently on the couch listening to a story tape we picked up from the library. It's not a long one but I wanted to test this out first. I think she'll really like it and I prefer it to her watching TV for a rest time. I'm going to call my sister for some suggestions of stories we can get.

I'm getting frustrated with potty training. She was doing awesome when we started but the glory just isn't there anymore I guess. We have daily accidents. I just had to clean poopy underwear and I'm currently trying to get a pee smell out of my couch cushion. Ugh! I'm trying to get more trainers to use so that cleanup is at least easier and we don't ruin our couch. I just don't really know what to do. Half the time she's all about it and will go to her potty and the other half she just decides to wait too long or doesn't want to take the time to go. I know this is common but it doesn't make it any less difficult to deal with!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: I saw the fertility specialist today. I'm sort of reeling from the appointment. I knew my situation might be bad but it is every bit as bad as I'd steeled myself for. I have a low egg reserve and likely poor egg quality. We are going to start IUI in august. My lining this month is on the thin side so even though I'm 9 dpo, I'm already sort of figuring it's unlikely I am pregnant. That said, I keep testing and some tests had an uber faint line and some don't. When I see something I get my hopes up a bit.I think I am making myself imagine something on these cheap tests. Anyway, this whole process is maddening. Knowing that Starling used donor embryos and has the exact same relationship with E as any of us do w/our biological babes makes me feel like maybe I will be open to donor egg if all the options he reccomended don't work for us. We have a lot to try before we come to that though. He warned me this will be a very long and hard road psychologically and I may have to go through more miscarriages before having a healthy baby. The waiting through the first trimester next time I am pregnant (god willing!) is going to be pure torture!!!


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## AKislandgirl

Oh Cindy! Big hugs! Infertility is so hard! I'm so sorry that you have to be going through this. I sure hope the IUI works for you. We conceived Fiona doing IUI as you might recall... 4th and final try at it too. My thoughts will be with you during all the ups and downs. I think it is good that the fertility specialist was honest with you about what to expect though. Have you considered doing any kind of counseling? That is something that I wish I had done because it was really, really hard on my and my marriage. I know it was hard on DH too but somehow different. Anyway, just a thought.


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - I'm so sorry you got such disappointing news  It sounds like you still have some promising options. I am keeping you in my thoughts and sending you lots of baby dust!

AK - Oh yuck, I wish I had some potty advice for you! Maybe she needs more reminders? Sometimes I notice R holding himself when he's busy doing something and he needs that reminder to go use the potty.


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## AKislandgirl

I do remind her but she gets pretty mad about it sometimes. I remember reading something about wrapping up 30 tiny presents (hair clips, matchbox car...) and letting them open one for each success. Stickers aren't cutting it anymore! Maybe I'll try some other reward to get her stoked on it again. i wonder if she would get it if we did a certain number of stickers per day meant one of the gifts. Hmm...


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## Mal85

Oh, Cindy. I can't imagine how you must be feeling after that appointment. I know those aren't the answers you were hoping for, but at least now you have a plan and a realistic outlook.









The potty thing is still going well here. She finally started pooping on the potty with some regularity! It still requires several trips to the bathroom within a short amount of time, but she gets the job done. I try to keep underwear on her as much as possible. If she has a pull-up on she has no desire to use the potty, for pee or poop. Right now we only use the pull-ups for all day trips out of the house and at bedtime. She has a thing about public bathrooms, so if we're shopping or going out to eat we use a pull-up. But if we're just visiting someone's house or making a trip to the grocery store, she'll wear her underwear. She has started holding it for a really long time. Going potty is such an inconvenience for a two year old apparently. So, there are times she waits too long and goes just a little in her pants before she makes it to the bathroom. She's stubborn too, so merely suggesting or reminding her to go to the bathroom doesn't work, she'll refuse. And if I take her anyway, it causes a huge temper tantrum. So, I let her have control over that. She hates when she pees in her pants though, so at least there is a natural consequence...


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## justKate

Cindy, that is really crappy news. That's not fair at all--I guess life isn't supposed to make sense but it sure does hurt sometimes. I hope that you're surprised with a BFP before you even do the IUI, but if not, we've got Fiona to show that it's a good option. If it were somehow possible for me to get a BFP and give it to you I definitely would.









Pottying here is going well all of a sudden--we went from one or two pee accidents daily to none. Basically every time we switch activities I tell her its time for us to go potty and we go sit on the potty and "push the pee pee out." When we're done coloring, before we go outside, etc. I don't ask if she needs to go; its just what we're going to do. I'm probably jinxing it by talking about it. She's still upset about pooping, so mostly she asks for a diaper and immediately poops in it. But I can deal with that. At least she's not holding it for a week anymore. As for the couch--I put a towel on ours for a while (when I know she hasn't gone recently). But its old and we're getting rid of it soon anyway, so I don't care all that much. But yeah, pee smell is no good.









Mal, I'm glad you're excited about the job! It sounds like a good arrangement.

Not much going on here, thankfully. Aubs and I are getting into a groove at home, although I do need to find more kids for her to play with. Last Wednesday we went to story time at the library and were the only ones there, so I guess I need to find another option. Right now we're waiting for the sun to go down a little so that we can go outside and play. The humidity is awful! Hoping for a cooler day for the 4th.


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## mckittre

Cindy - Hugs. That sounds like hard news to swallow! And fertility issues always seem just so unfair. I've always felt guilty it was so easy for me, and wish I could pass some of that along to others. Good luck in the journey!

AK - pottying is up and down for us too. Right now he's in a phase where he doesn't mind reminders quite so much, but it's so hard to get him to ask in time on his own (luckily he's a bit better for poop). I do despair that we'll ever be done carrying around lots of extra pants and undies.

Summer is really here now! My garden has officially crossed the threshold where there is always an infinite amount of veggies to eat, and no more need to buy any at the store until winter.  And Lituya just turned 6 months old. I can't believe how fast the time is going.


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## starling&diesel

Hi all ... I'm tip-toeing back to Mothering, with hopes that Peggy's recent apologies will start to mend some of the rifts at MDC lately.

I'm way too behind for in-depth personals, but I do want to give *Cindy* a big hug:







I know all too well how infertility can emotionally shipwreck you.

I hope that you get pregnant with your own lovely eggs very soon, but if you're ever looking at the journey to adopt eggs, do be confident that the bond that you'd have with that child will be strong and true and unbreakable, if somewhat unique on a cellular level.

*Lituya* is six months old? NO WAY! Time is flying! I want it so slow down!

*Mal* ... Congratulations on the job! Sounds like what you've been aiming for for so long. Wonderful news!

*Everr* ... Your weekend sounds great! I love rafting. So much fun. Sounds like your move is coming along. What an exciting new start for you!

*justKate* ... Only one person at the story time! Wow! Ours are so packed that I'm always saying to myself that I don't want to go. But E loves it. Glad to hear that you're finding your way around your new community. Do you know if there is a local parent's listserv on Yahoo groups? That's always a good thing. Checked out the tribal area on MDC?

*Pottying*: I've decided to let it go entirely. I want E to have an intrinsic interest in learning to go to the potty, so we're steering away from rewards. She'll get it in good time. I've only got about 90 days until her little brother comes, and I don't want to pressure her or myself. Meh.

*AFU*: 26 weeks today! Baby is rolling and poking and kicking and responding to our voices a lot lately. We're travelling a bit, to my parents on the Sunshine Coast last week (swimming, beach combing, exploring) and off to Saltspring Island this week for a getaway at a lakeside cabin. I think this will be our last holiday as a family of three. This pregnancy is going too fast! I'm sad to think that this is the last time I'll be pregnant. Life is so busy, I feel like the only time I have to be quiet and still and get to know this baby is when he's keeping me awake in the middle of the night.

I'm off on leave now, which is great. All our travel to lovely little coastal towns makes us itch to get out of the city again. I'm sure I've got Roma blood in me somewhere! I can't sit still!

Esmé is careening around and exploring her world a lot more physically lately, resulting in lots and lots of spills and scrapes and bruises. We've been loving the spray parks in the city, and the beaches out of town. Shes a lovely fish in water. A natural swimmer. She and I went swimming in a lake in the pouring rain and she loved it! That's my girl ... genetic connection or not!

Anyone else starting to think about lessons like music, dance, etc? I think we're going to look at doing violin, and dance, starting after her third birthday. Anyone else?

Thinking of you all!


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## Everrgreen

Starling - You are busy! Sounds like you are having a fun summer though  And only 90 days until your boy comes! Wow! Do you have a name picked yet?

mckittre - I also can't believe Lituya is 6 months! Time flies! I still have moments where I look at R and think 'omg - how is he so big already?!'

RE Lessons - Definitely starting to think about doing some structured lessons! Not until after we move but this winter I want to start him in skating, after he turns 3 I will do swimming lessons (at that age I don't have to get in the pool with him, which I've tried before and I hate). I may see if there is something for this fall too - maybe a gymnastics/tumbling class? I don't know. He's more into sports and physical stuff so I think he would like that better than art/music. I'll have to see what's available after I move. This summer we have too much going on and are going to be back and forth between my house and my mom's.

Can you all believe our babies are almost 2.5?!? R's best playmate is 3 months older than him and turns 3 in October. THREE!! He actually will start school the year before R does which seems crazy (only a year from September!) Ahh - I'm feeling sentimental tonight


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## Vegan Princess

Thanks for the kind words everyone. I've done a bit of grieving but am back to getting on the horse and giving it all a go and just taking it one step at a time. AF showed today. So we will try with the meds on our own again this month while we take care of all the orientation and bloodwork to get set up for IUI in August. I will def. keep the counselor idea in mind if things get tough! The last thing I want to do it jeapordize my marriage in this process.

Starling: Happy to see you back! I had some crazy dream yesterday (after I read your post on my phone) that you had your baby early. I was searching frantically to try and find out how you were doing. And we all had a central meeting place where we could meet in person. Strange. And don't worry, my dreams aren't usually predicitive. LOL.

We went down to Santa Cruz yesterday to go to the beach. Thankfully DH has a friend who lives down there bc it took almost 4 hours to get there (and an hour and a half to get home, if that tells you about traffic). We ended up staying at DH's friend's house and making a whole trip of it and got to go back to the beach again this morning before heading home. Makenna had so much fun playing in the sand and building sand castles. She LOVES our friend's motorhome and she LOVED his hothub. She had a grand old time and was being a ham and in a great mood until we put her to bed at 10:30, despite only having a half hour nap and running around like a mad woman. And she graced us by sleeping until 9 this morning. Even though we left before fireworks, etc. it was nice to do something beachy for the 4th. That is what the 4th has always been about for me, since I grew up in San Diego. Being up here in the San Francisco bay area never feels like the fourht - it's often too foggy to see fireworks. Great weather this year though. Not sure what we'll do about fireworks. DH and I are both kind pooped out from staying up late and enjoying adult company. LOL.

Oh and as for classes. I am going to start Makenna in a gymnastics class soon. I think she'd like dance but right now the classes I find for dance are pretty similar to the gymnastics/movement classes. I'd love for her to do music as well but haven't figured out what or when we will start. And I'm a bit torn on the dance. I'd love to start her in ballet but I worry about the body issue stuff that comes with that down the line.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Hi Mama's! We had a nice 4th here with sunny weather! DH spent the morning at the playground with Fiona while I worked on dying some playsilks. I traded a Mama on DS for some longies! It was fun to have time to myself to do something creative. I took Fiona for a walk in her stroller when they got back for her nap. It was the first time during this pregnancy that I realized I can't quite do what I want physically. It was a long walk that I do regularly but it kicked my butt today and I was so worn out when I got home. 26 weeks today and the tiredness is creeping back up on me. Bummer! Overall I do feel good though.

Starling... you really freaked me out with the 90 day thing. Really?! I'm not ready!!

Fun to hear what everyone has been up to. Sounds like a lot of fun!

Re Lessons: I really want to get Fiona going on violin but nobody here does lessons for littles as far as I've been able to figure out. Suzuki teachers generally will start with 3 year olds though. I think we will give dance a try though. We have two different dance studios in town to choose from. I need to ask around to see what they are like but both have movement classes for 3 year olds. I think Fiona would really dig that! Someday when we move I hope to get her involved with Irish Dancing. I did it for years, both performance and competition and really loved it. I would love to see her do Irish Dancing over ballet but we'll just see. She might not like either!

DH is about to pull Fiona out of the tub so I'm off to do bedtime duties... I did enjoy a lovely Dove bar while she was in there though! Shh! (w/ dark chocolate... it was sooo good!)


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## mckittre

Happy 4th of July! No fireworks on an Alaska 4th (I'm writing this at 11PM and it's still much too light out), but the holiday is always a big deal in town. All the summer people and people's out of town relatives and friends and a bunch of tourists come. A lot of folks bring kids, and it's always so strange to see babies and toddlers in town that I don't know.  Katmai and Lituya had fun riding in the parade with all the other little ones, Katmai dug for pennies in the sawdust pile, ate junk food, and we watched people do all kinds of contests like fish-tossing, canoe jousting, survival suit racing, etc. My husband manned a booth most of the day, and chatted with folks that came by. And we finished up with a town potluck/cookoff contest at the beach. Now if Katmai could only fall asleep...

Lessons: Nothing here, but us parents have talked about various "classes" we might teach as the kids get a little older. My husband and I did aikido (non-competitive Japanese martial art with all kinds of throwing and tumbling) for many years, and I think that might be really fun to teach little kids.


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## AKislandgirl

Hmm... I replied yesterday but its not showing up.

never mind... found it! I'm a dork!


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## Mal85

Starling, so good to get an update from you!

We had a busy but good 4th here. We had some kind of activity everyday since Friday. By Monday, DH and I were a little burnt out and pretty tired. We went to my sister's for a bbq and Owyn had a blast swimming all day long. My dad even got in the pool with all the kids, a rare occurrence anymore. It was good to see her playing in the water with my dad. We had a pool when I was growing up and I would always get in with my dad in the late evening when we would swim together. I'd ride on his back under the water, those are some of my best memories with him. She played herself into exhaustion by late afternoon and started having huge temper tantrums over things like Mommy flushing the toilet when she didn't want me to or Daddy putting panties on her after going to the bathroom. She passed out on the couch around 5:30, which worked out well since then she could stay awake late and go see the city fireworks show at the park. Then, she slept in until 9 this morning! The kid who never sleeps past 7:30, it was so nice sleeping in this morning!

She started swimming lessons this morning and LOVED it. It's a parent-tot class, but I really think she's able to do the things the beginners class is doing. She just had a little trouble staying with the teacher so it was a good thing I was in the water with her. She is very excited about going back tomorrow!

I happened to run into someone at the pool who does some volunteer work at the school I'll be working at. When she saw that I was pregnant, she said she'd tell the principal she'd be willing to fill in for me while I'm off having the baby. She's a retired teacher so it should work out well. I go meet with the school tomorrow, so hopefully I'll get some good news on that front!


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## Vegan Princess

Well Makenna had her first dentist visit today. It was super cute. They spent a lot of time showing her everything and letting her touch everything and even gave her a dentist kit to take home with lots of the stuff they used. She is loving that! We rode the chair up and down and checked everything out. She sat in my lap in the chair. I was really nervous bc she has had funny looking lines on her teeth and I was afraid the enamel was wearing away! Turns out it was just staining and it all came off! She did cry when it was time to clean so the dentist only cleaned the front. Her teeth look sooo much better! I am not sure what the staining is from but I am thinking from her liquid vitamins. They are a dark brown. I may switch to a chewable. Anyway, she did well and I was impressed with the office (a pediatric dentist).

We are off to visit my family tomorrow for 5 days. Looking forward to taking M to Seaworld and to the beach again. And lots of pool time. I'm also looking forward to a night out w/my best friend while my mom babysits! DH won't be joining us. I always get sad when I leave him home!

Mal: That's great you may have diffused the prego situation before even telling them! Hope the conversation goes well. Yay for sleeping in!

Erin: Aikido sounds super cool! And I totally forgot that it was light so late there!

Cindy


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## justKate

Only a min to reply but wanted to say, Sue, my first violin teacher told me how she worked with her littlest students: tape a ruler to a tissue box and get them to march around with it to a metranome (sp?). Gets them started on form and rythm. No bow yet. Then do Suzuki when you can--i really think it was the best!


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## Thursday Girl

hey all, back on the board, it's been crazy with parts of our house basically falling apart, black mold, a whole outer wall has to replaced and new support beams under the house. one part of our house is now 1 1/2 inches higher than it used to be and poor DH has to do all the work by himself, well until it comes time to replace part of the roof, he has a lot of skills but roofing is not one of them, luckily a lot of our friends our roofers. The kids and I have vacated the house and are staying at my sisters while she is in europe. I really miss my house and being around my husband.

No new Junes information, she does love to swim. there is a pool right outside my sisters apartment so we just spend most of the day in the pool.

Cindy, i am sorry about your news, praying things work out.

can't believe new babies are almost here and Lituya is 6 months!!


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## AKislandgirl

Kate: I love that tip! Thanks!

Cindy: Glad the dentist visit went well. I'm taking Fiona in August. I hope you have a great visit with your mom too! Enjoy your night out!

Erin: Man, I wish the light was enough to deter people from fireworks around here. Everybody around us was setting them off for days! I really don't get spending all that money on them when you can't even see them. My dog was less then pleased with all of the activity of the last few days.

Courtney: Yikes! What a nightmare with your house! Thank god your husband is capable of working on it though. Good that you have your sisters place to camp out too. I hope you guys get your house back soon!

Mal: Hope the meeting goes well today! Keep us posted!

I really need to get Fiona in the pool. We haven't been in over a year! Pretty bad. The water is so cold though that she ends up shivering rather quickly. I think I need to suck it up and get her in the pool soon though. Our friend just gave us a wet suit for her though! The trick will be finding a suit that fits me!


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## Mal85

Sue, I got an Old Navy maternity suit. It was pretty cheap for swim suit. It's a tankini type. Not one I would choose for myself if I wasn't pregnant, but it does the job. It's not like I'm doing a lot of jumping in or diving this summer, so I basically just needed it to cover me and leave room to grow.

Today was day 2 of swimming lessons and she is already making huge strides! I wasn't sure how much she'd actually learn, I really just signed her up for us to have something to do together while I'm off, but she is doing great! She's jumping in and going under the water. Today, they were reaching down in the shallow water to get diving rings and she put her whole head under to reach for the ring. I was shocked! She loves the water anyway, but usually insists on wearing her floaties and hates putting her head under.

This weekend is my family reunion, we're doing a family stay-cation. We're all going to a big waterpark on Saturday and I think Owyn will have a fantastic time! We're also making a day trip to a nearby lake and renting a pontoon boat. Motorboats are apparently one of those pregnancy no-nos, so I'll be hanging out at the swimming beach, but DH is going to take Owyn out on the boat. We're going to a night time baseball game, but I'm not sure if we'll take Owyn to that or not. It'll depend on if she gets a nap that day and how she's handling all the excitement. I'd like to take her, but a night game could be a recipe for disaster!


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## AKislandgirl

Mal: Hope you had a great family reunion! Sounds like a blast... and you all get to sleep in your own beds! Perfect.

Fiona and I are gearing up for a trip to see my family at the end of the month. I can't wait! I am planning to buy some new books for the airplane... what are your kids loving these days? I need some inspiration. I think I'll buy some Little Bear books for a start...

We are still hit and miss with the potty learning. I just keep trucking along. I have her in night time trainers now which is helping with mornings since I can just slide them down for her to sit on the potty first thing. I've also been using some waterproof trainers during the day (hidden PUL) which has helped me relax a lot about the couch, etc... She is doing better now that I'm more relaxed about it! Imagine that! Parenting lesson noted.

Anyone else dealing with more tantrums lately? We have for sure and I was recently reading about how kids go through developmental surges around their birthdays and half birthdays. During these surges they are reorganizing how they look at the world and how to make sense of it. So with that much going on it makes sense to have meltdowns. Hopefully we'll get back on track soon but it helped me to have that perspective. The author described it like this... a child has a stack of building blocks and during a developmental surge they are adding another block to their stack. It's not as simple as adding it to the top of the tower- the whole stack needs to come tumbling down and be rebuilt. This time it might be a pyramid. I really gained a lot from this small section of the book and thought I'd share in case you guys might be going through similar times of meltdowns. It's from Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka.


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## justKate

Sue its funny you mention that book because I've had it for a while, but haven't looked at it lately. I got it when Aubs was having so much trouble at night, but found that it wasn't that helpful for pre-verbal toddlers. I think I need to look at it again now that she's talking somewhat. I try to let her know that an activity is about to end, tell her what we're doing next, etc, but she still loses her mind every time something ends (a meal, an activity, leaving a place). Bothersome, but not all that out of character for her. It's just more uncomfortable now because she kicks so hard. Aubrey is definitely spirited.









Books--I really like the Llama Llama books--Llama Llama Mad at Mama and Llama Llama Red Pajama, because Mama Llama is patient and kind, and they rhyme. Aubs really likes the Curious George books. They're okay. I try to use them as a language-modeling exercise--I read them in a strong, steady voice and try to articulate each word so that she gets something out of it.

Swimming--we have a little pool that I fill up in the front yard some mornings. I'd like to get her lessons, but everything I've found is like every day for two weeks. That's a big commitment. I should call around again....


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## starling&diesel

*Sue* ... We're on a huge "Mr. Putter & Tabby" kick right now. And "Harry & Mudge". Both those series are by Cynthia Rylant. And Franklin (the turtle) books by Paulette Bourgeois. E also loves "Little Bear" ... the old ones that Maurice Sendak illustrated. E loooooves anything by Mo Willems (total genius man), "Knuffle Bunny Too" is her favourite. We also love "Pete the Cat" by Eric Litman and we're also really into fairy tales right now. Any and all fairy tales. I've downloaded some free podcasts from Barefoot Books of readings of traditional fairy tales.

*Tantrums*: E isn't very tantrum-y so far, but she certainly is more ... how to put it ... defiant and insistent lately. She wants to do things her way and no other way is acceptable. I find this particularly challenging because I also like to do things my way. See where I'm going with this? I try to let her do things her way whenever possible, but when it's not possible (safety, logistics, sanity), I'm having a hard time redirecting her.

Anyone have any suggestions of how to affix my cell number to E while we're at big outdoor festivals? We went to one yesterday, and she wouldn't keep the little ribbon on her wrist and would barely allow the one around her lovey's neck. I don't want to put it inside her clothes because I want it to be obvious. I've seen kids with lanyards or tags pinned to them. I need to find something she'll go along with by Friday when we go to the three-day folk fest.


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## mckittre

Sue - potty learning is hit and miss here as well. If we take him to the potty often enough, it works, but if we leave him to his own devices there are a fair number of mistakes. But we're out of diapers during the day, and are soldiering on anyway.

Books - no great suggestions here. Katmai's off his all books all the time phase (outdoors more, maybe?) so we don't read much. And he has odd tastes. His latest favorite is "Babar's museum of art"

Starling - Katmai is also absolutely insistent that he is also the dictator of the universe! He would like to order everyone and everything around at all times. Actually, one of the reasons we've been doing less reading lately is that he wants to dictate exactly where I hold the book, yells at his sister for trying to grab the book, tells the cat where he's supposed to be, etc... And my mom (who's visiting), says he's exactly like I was as a toddler. For the phone #, could you put it on a tag or ribbon on a hat? That way it's visible, but won't be in her way.

Tantrums - Katmai has his share of little meltdowns. Not terrible. Our biggest problem lately is dealing with a new surge of jealousy of Lituya. He's been in a kick lately of taking away anything she's playing with and putting it away, just so she can't have it. Struggling a bit with how to deal with that one.


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## AKislandgirl

Starling: have you seen these? http://www.safetytat.com/ not sure if you could get them in time though... As an alternative you could just write your number on her t-shirt with a sharpie or fabric pen. That might be the quickest thing to do.

Thanks for the book suggestions guys...


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## Mal85

Hey everyone, just checking in. We survived our busy, busy weekend, but I am BEAT! We had a picnic at the park followed by the baseball game, which we didn't end up taking Owyn to. She didn't get a nap that day and really needed to rest up for a full day at the waterpark the next day. She LOVED the waterpark. They had a couple of different awesome kiddie areas that she loved. She played and played all day long, then we had a weenie roast at my parents'. The next day, we had brunch with the family, followed by a bowling party, followed by a pizza party, followed by a movie. We didn't attend the movie, it was too late for Owyn by then. She actually bowled for the first time and loved that too! She was on a lane with the other kids that had the bumpers up and I thought DH would cry with pride when she got a spare, lol! Our last day was a day trip to a nearby lake that turned into an overnight trip at the last minute, so we just got back his afternoon. She did great in the lake until I made the mistake of pointing out a fish to her thinking she would like it. She flipped out and refused to put her feet in after that the rest of the day! She'd go in the water if DH or I would take her and she'd float on her own where she couldn't touch, but she did not want her feet where she thought the fish lived!

As fun as the weekend was, I am so glad it's over now. Non-stop fun for 4 days straight is not easy on a pregnant lady, especially when the temps have been around 100 the whole time! Now I get to hang out in my air conditioning and get ready for the garage sale my sister and I are having this weekend. My last day off is Monday and the daycare kids return on Tuesday. One of my families is on vacation though and won't be back until the end of the week. Then, my last two weeks will be crazy! I am going to have a newborn baby plus all my others for those last couple of weeks, so it'll be crazy! But then I'll be done, so I think I can make it knowing it's only for 2 weeks!

Starling, I just got done reading The Nanny Diaries and your question made me think of that. The little boy in the book carries around a business card all the time. It said in the book that he used a business card holder, like a small plastic holder that had a clip on it and it could clip to his shirt or pants or whatever. Maybe something like that would work for E?

Sue, Owyn's never been really into books unfortunately. Lately though she's had some love for the old Berenstain Bear books I had when I was a kid.


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## Everrgreen

Hey everyone! I've been following the new posts but haven't had time to sit and type a response 

Mal - Wow that sounds like a very busy but fun holiday! I hope your last 2 weeks of work aren't too bad! I was thinking of taking R bowling just for fun. I don't think he'd like a water park, he gets overwhelmed just going to the splash pad!

I like all the book suggestions! Our book collection is mostly just my old books (an old Sesame Street collection, Parents Magazine Press books, other random books). He does really like Robert Munsch too. I think I will check out some of the suggestions here 

Tantrums - Not too much of that here. R moves on pretty quickly, he has a very short attention span  I try and acknowledge that he's angry but then stick with what we have to do. I try and give him lots of choices but sometimes he will choose neither (ex. crossing the street his choice is hold my hand or I will carry you, but if he refuses both then I just pick him up and carry him while he screams and squirms, but as soon we're across the street he's fine).

We went camping last weekend and that was lots of fun! R slept perfectly in the tent (he stayed up late with me and my mom but that's his usual). He was very scared of the campfire the first night. He was crying and clinging to me and burying his face in me. He refused to even look at the fire and kept saying it was going to get him and it hurt his eyes. He did get some smoke in his eyes when we first lit it so that's what started everything. But I really had no idea what to do. He was crying that he wanted to go home. I felt bad and totally clueless. He was ok the second night though, still worried about the fire getting him but he would look at it. Other than that the trip was great!

I can't believe it's almost mid July! I still need to find an apartment and confirm daycare. I'm feeling sad about the end of an era being home with R. I know that's a bit dramatic but that's how I feel


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: Camping sounds great! We are going again in September. Can't wait! I think any change can bring sadness - totally normal! But I know you will find much joy in your new endeavor as well. Just keep that in mind! You and R have a tight relationship and that isn't going to change.

Mal: I'm tired just hearing about your trip. I hope you can get some rest for those weary prego bones.

Kate: Are you enjoying being home? Hopefully some of your fears about it have been laid to rest by now.

Erin: I have no advice on the taking of toys from Lituya other than saying that it is totally normal. M took a 9 month old's toy at a play space today and her mom said "it's ok, she used to it. She has a big brother".

Starling: I'm envious of a 3 days folk festival!! Have so much fun!! I recall you guys go every year. I'm looking forward to the bluegrass festival coming up in a few months. We went last year and it was a lot of fun. Makenna loved it and danced all around.

AFM: We just got back from visiting my mom in San Diego for 5 nights. Had a good trip. Went to seaworld. Makenna hated the beach and we had to leave shortly after arriving. M got terrified of the ocean and the tide was coming up so she thought it was going to get us. It was odd bc she loved the beach only a few days prior. But it was super hot and I was not about to stay and deal with a hysterical child and not even be able to cool off in the water. She did love the pool though. My mom, dad and brother all have pools so she enjoyed swimming at everyone's houses. It is lovely to be home again! DH is switching jobs in a few weeks so we are trying to plan a 4-5 day trip for the end of this month. I think it will likely be a driving trip down to santa barbara. I'm a bit concerned about going to a beach again though.

Last night we landed and got in the car to come home around 5:15. Makenna was asleep by 5:30. I brought her in and she went back to sleep on my lap so I put her to bed. She slept until 8 this morning!!! Insane. And she DEMANDED to nap again at 12:30 and napped for 2 hours until she woke herself up by wetting the bed. I know I'm pooped from our trip but I had no idea she was so tired! She slept normal amounts while we were away.

Potty has been great here. Really no accidents except for the occasional wetting the bed during the rare nap. I guess I need to put diapers on for naps when she takes them. I'm getting sick of washing my bedding.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

I think everyone must be having a busy summer! Not much activity here these days 

I don't have anything new just a little story/vent from this morning. We were at the park and there was a large group of kids there (from a summer camp). R climbed up the ladder to go on the big slide but there was an older boy (probably 10 or so, but big!) climbing up it. So R was standing there waiting and the boy got to the top of the slide and I went around to the bottom assuming the boy would be climbing out any second and R would be coming down. Then I hear another little girl say to the boy "what are you doing?" and he laughs and says "I'm pushing this baby away". So I came around and sure enough he is still sitting at the top of the slide pushing R. WTH?!?! So I said "Hey! Don't push him! He's just a baby!" (I controlled my inner mama bear rage). He obviously didn't realize I was right there and looked embarrassed and said "oh I'm sorry". And then I told him he needs to get off the slide and let other kids go down, and he did. Poor R! He just looked so confused!

This is just the beginning of childhood bullying and it kills me! I don't know how I'm going to manage this as R gets older. I was bullied as a kid and I really don't want him to go through that :'(


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: Awww. We had a sort of similar experience yesterday at the park. M wanted to go check out the bigger kid area (the non fenced in area). It was so over run by big kids. They were zooming all about and could have easily toppled her over. She really didn't get my concern. It made me so nervous and I ended up making her go back to the tot area. But she didn't have any fear of them really. Just mama. I'm sorry that kid actually pushed him! I'd be pissed!

M fell on the way to the car after the park yesterday and got a few tiny splinters in her finger. She hadn't napped and got so upset that she demanded to go home and "take a nap" at 5:45. So she went to sleep at 5:45 and slept until 7:15 this morning (with a few wake ups - but never got out of bed). One time she woke up hysterical and demanding that I brush her tongue! LOL! So I had to get out of bed and get her toothbrush, brush her tongue, and she went back to sleep. Daddy usually brushes and she makes me brush her tongue after. But I guess she was dreaming about that. Anyway, DH and I barely knew what to do with ourselves having an ENTIRE evening alone!

Tomorrow I get to meet all the families that signed up for the co-op preschool my friend and I put together. It will be orientation, etc. I'm excited!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy: Sounds exciting! I think its great you have put this coop together!

We dealt with a big kid pushing Fiona the other day. I was pissed. We were at our local wildlife refuge visitor center. She was reaching for one of the interactive displays when a kid about 8 or so pushed her and grabbed it from her. I was not happy. I yelled, "Hey! She's two! That is not ok!" His mom was nowhere. He quickly said sorry under his breath and ran off. Little punk!

I had to rush Fiona out of the house this morning which is never easy on her. We had to drop our dog off at the vet to have her leg looked out. She had to stay for the day and F was soo upset! She cried (more like wailed!) for an hour: I want my Maia, She's my dog not theirs, Maia needs me... her heart was broken. I think she thought we were leaving her there forever. We picked her up this afternoon and F was so happy to get her back! Turns out Maia will need the surgery as we suspected. Ugh!

DH is dealing with his own joint issues and has been having terrible pain in his shoulder. He can barely move his arm. He's so stubborn though and keeps going out in the field everyday. He has been referred to the joint specialist but can't be seen for several weeks. I just hope we can get the issue resolved and get him feeling better before October.

On a brighter note... (didn't mean for this to be so negative!)

We've been having gorgeous weather all week. The sun has been shining and we've been out playing hard. The garden is looking great. Fiona likes to strip down and run through the sprinkler on these "hot" days. It hit 65 yesterday (don't laugh at us, that's hot for here!







)

I'm just a couple days away from 28 weeks. Third trimester! This pregnancy is going so fast! Overall feeling pretty good though tired at the end of the day for sure. I'm hoping that by staying active through yoga and walking I'll be in good shape for labor should it go uber long again. We'll see. I think it will at least help in the recovery phase. We still don't have a name although we spent a lot of time talking about it yesterday. Finally DH realizes he's running out of time! Hard to believe that in about 3 months we'll have a new baby here!


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## Mal85

Owyn deals with bigger kids a lot of the time. She is one of the younger cousins in the family and we spend a lot of time with all of them. She gets pushed down often and has learned pretty well to stick up for herself. It's pretty rare that I have to step in anymore. Luckily, some of her cousins are in their young teen years and tend to look out for the little ones when all the kids are running around.

We are still exhausted around here! I spent the whole week getting ready for our garage sale and spent the last two evenings at my sister's house sorting through clothes and pricing everything. I went over there at 6:30 this morning to help her get set up before we opened at 8 and spent the whole day sitting in her garage in the sweltering heat. We're under heat advisories here until late next week and it was around 100 again today, and humid! Owyn spent the day inside playing with her cousins. My sister's 13 y/o step-daughter was there and helped out with the kids all day. Owyn couldn't have cared less what I was doing. I'd check on her every now and then and find her singing a song putting on a performance for her cousins, sitting in a circle with her girl cousins brushing baby dolls' hair, swimming in the kiddie pool out on the deck, and thoroughly enjoying all the junk food she got to eat since I wasn't supervising very closely. We'll be back at it tomorrow, but she is spending the day with DH this time.

I'm a little frustrated with the daycare situation I had lined up for Owyn. My sister is going to be my regular baby sitter, but she can't start until late Sept-early October because she's having surgery right when I start working. So, I had asked my friend who is a SAHM if she could watch her until my sister can start. She had mentioned anyway that she was looking for a part time kid or two to watch for a little extra money. She was all for it, but she tends to be a bit of a flake. So, I was very up front with her about the fact that I do not want to play musical baby sitters, so if she didn't think she could commit to every MWF to let me know and I'd find someone else. Nope, she wanted to do it. She then comes back and says Mondays don't work for her. Okay, I found someone willing to do Mondays. Then comes back and says she can't watch her for a whole week for her son's birthday because she needs that time to plan the birthday party. Whatever. Then, sends me a message today saying she's just so busy in August, is there any way I can find someone to watch her until after her son's birthday (August 22). I was done after that. I asked my sister's friend to watch her since my sister will be sending her daughter there while she recovers from her surgery anyway, so at least Owyn will have her cousin to make her feel comfortable. Plus, one of my daycare kids is going to go there, so I'm hoping the familiar faces will help Owyn adjust. I can't really be mad at my friend, I really expected it from her anyway, she flakes on a lot of things. It's just irritating is all.


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## justKate

Hey ladies, wanted to stop in to say hi.

Sue, saw your pics on FB, you look great. It IS hard to believe it's your 3rd trimester! What is Fiona thinking about being a big sister?

Everr, that really sucks about R being pushed. I don't know why some kids act that way towards others. I was NEVER like that as a kid.... If Aubs pushed another kid we would be leaving, immediately, especially someone smaller than her. Not acceptable.

Cindy, how did the orientation go? I'm really envious of your co-op. I looked for something like that around here and there just isn't anything. I'm really enjoying being home with Aubs--it's so relaxing. I get things done; I'm happy with the way my house looks for a change; I can make decent meals. Unfortunately, I think Aubs is bored, and with my lack of success in finding her a good playgroup, I think I'm going to send her to preschool next month. Two days a week from 9-12. Just to make some friends. And that will give me time to go to the gym, or grocery shop, or whatever. We went and checked out a few places yesterday and she had a great time, so we'll give it a try.

Starling, how did the festival go? How are you feeling these days?

Mal, that really sucks about your flaky friend. I would definitely be annoyed. Nice that you have your niece around to help out, even if you are working while the littles play!

As for me, I'm 4DPO and trying to stay busy so that I won't think about how soon I can test. I'm trying to be zen about it, but it's hard because I feel like I've waited (to try) forever. Today Aubrey and I are going to the beach, and then to Target, so that should keep us busy. I ordered some internet cheapies for testing when the time comes, but hopefully they won't get here until next week so that I don't make myself crazy. How early did you all start testing?


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: We are cycle buddies. I'm 3 dpo. Not really all that hopeful this month but I did take femara and am taking progesterone now too so who know. I always start testing way too early. I actually got a super faint line at 8 dpo last time! But nothing until 12 dpo w/M.

Orientation wasn't too bad. I had to give myself a shot of saline solution in the stomach to practice since I will have to give myself a shot before IUI (it makes you ovulate 36 hours later so they know for sure the egg is coming out and so they can control timing better for scheduling the IUI). I was so nervous - but it wasn't horrible. Thank goodness. DH learned too so if I chicken out he can do it. There were actually 10 couples at orientation. And they give it every week! This clinic alone does 1600 IUIs/year. So I felt a lot less alone in my journey!

Sue: Wow, third tri! You look so cute in your pic! So exciting!! October is going to come so fast. Eeck!

Mal: I have a flakey friend like that. It drives me nuts and I never trust what she plans with me. I am glad you found another solution.


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## AKislandgirl

Mal: So sorry about your friend. I have to admit that I really just quit contacting my flaky friend. I just don't have the energy to try to maintain a friendship when she always flakes out on me. Once Fiona arrived it got even worse so I haven't talked to her in forever. I'm glad that you got childcare worked out though. You will be starting your new job before you know it! I can't wait to hear how you like it!

Cindy: Glad to hear that you don't feel so alone. I never had to do shots... that would be hard for me! Just keep a mantra in your head about a new baby every time you have to do it! Nursing was extremely painful while I was on clomid for about 4-5 days surrounding ovulation. I just kept picturing a new baby and made it through.

Kate: 2 days a week for preschool sounds great! It sounds like things are going really well for you in your new place though. Maybe you can meet some of the other moms through the preschool too. I'm crossing my fingers for you on this cycle (Cindy you too!). I tested at 9 dpo this time around. It didn't show up for several minutes so I threw it away and gave myself a hard time for testing so early. Then I decided to read the box again and it said to wait 5 minutes. I pulled it out of the trash and it was positive! LOL! Waiting is so hard!!

I think we all feel like baby is coming in some far off time even though I am in the third trimester now. I think that after we get back from vacation we will feel more like we need to get ready for her. We have our name list down to three. DH totally annoyed me the other day when he told his mom we didn't have a name yet and said sure send us a list. I don't want her ideas! And I'm certainly not picking a name off of her list, even if in the off chance its one on our list. I will not give her the satisfaction of "picking" our daughters name. Really he just didn't want her to know what our choices are but he didn't just tell her that. Anyway, probably a silly thing to be annoyed about but my MIL drives me a bit batty!

BTW, we aren't discussing names with anyone in real life but I want to ask you ladies... Do you drop a name because you don't like the obvious nickname? We both love Violet but hate Vi. Thoughts?


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## Everrgreen

AK - I would probably keep Violet on the list. The name is short enough on its own that I don't think a nickname would be a big problem. And while her friends might call her 'Vi' once in a while (maybe?), I really doubt she would ever choose to just go by Vi in any real sense. If it were something like hating Jen but loving Jennifer I would say drop the name from your list! My ex has a very nickname-able name and his family always called him the long version even when he went by a nickname everywhere else.

And your pic was very cute! I also loved the one with you and Fiona  How exciting to be in the third trimester!!

Cindy - Oh I could never ever ever give myself a needle, I would definitely be forcing my (hypothetical) partner to do it  Lots of baby dust to you and to Kate!!!

Mal - Your friend sounds like a pain! I'm glad you are able to find a better solution. I have a somewhat flaky friend (not nearly that bad though!) She's actually my best friend but we have sort of opposite personalities (I'm high energy, always on time, everything planned, she's laid back, always late, nothing planned) Oh well!

AK (again, I'm working backwards through all the posts here..) - I think I would trade the super hot weather we are having for your summers! I have no a/c and it's miserable!

And your story about Fiona and your dog made me think of a similar issue with R.. and our car.. I had to take it in to get fixed and he could see from the window when they moved it out of the parking lot to take it in and he was so upset ("Hey!! Our car!!!") He watched while they were fixing it but was very concerned lol!

So I'm still apartment hunting and daycare hunting. I'm getting a bit stressed. The home daycare I had my hopes on fell through. The woman who runs the organization said she has a couple leads about other possible home daycares in the area. But I think I may need to just register R at a regular daycare. My choices are kind of limited because I qualify for a subsidy so need to find a licensed option to take advantage of that. And my mom has been checking out apartments for me because I'm back home now. I found out today that a building in an area I really like has a spot available so that might work out. I will feel much better when all of this is done!


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## Mal85

Sue: I would also keep Violet on the list if it were me. Vi isn't a nickname I immediately go to when I hear Violet. I don't know any Violets in real life, so it's hard saying, but it isn't the most nick-nameable name I've heard. Plus, I really like the name! We're still stumped on names here. I'm still not in love with anything and DH has no suggestions, he just says no to everything I say. I'm trying to decide if I like Piper or Veda better. If I can settle on one of them, I think I'm just going to pull rank and say that's her name unless DH comes up with something we can both agree on, since he's being so disagreeable!

As for my friend, it is irritating, but I'm not really mad at her. I fully expected it when I asked her to do it. Like you, Everr, she's one of my very closest friends and it's a trait I've known about her as long as I've known her. I've just learned to live with it. I enjoy spending time with her and like seeing her and her family when it works out, I've just learned not to rely on her for anything but good company. I used to try harder to arrange get-togethers with her and get the kids together for things (she has a 1 year old), but she flakes out so often that now I just wait for her to get in touch with me and I don't go out of my way to accommodate her since she doesn't do it for me.

Everr, I hope you get something figured out soon! I would be so stressed if it were me, I know you're starting school fairly soon! I was really lucky to have a back-up readily available when my friend flaked out on me. It'll be even better when she can start going to my sister's though. I'll feel more comfortable with that arrangement. My MIL is actually going to watch her once a week, as a trial basis. She'd like to be able to do that permanently, but isn't sure if her schedule will allow it, so we're just going to give it a try for now. And luckily, the baby sitter I have lined up is okay with that day being kind of up in the air for now.


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: We did drop Rebekah bc we didn't like Becca or Bekcy. But those are standard nicknames for Rebekah. We both agreed on Makenna but DH is pretty adament that she not be called Mac bc he had an ex named Makenzie. And so far it has been fine. You can just tell people not to call her that until she is old enough to decide.

Everr: Good luck finding your spots! I know this has been weighing on your mind for some time now! Will be such a huge relief when you have it all squared away!! When does school start? August or September? That is so soon! You must be so excited.


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## justKate

I like playing the name game with you guys because DH is no fun--not very creative or open to anything he considers "different."

Mal, I really like Piper, and I think it goes well with Owyn. I like Veda, and also Vera, because I'm in to old lady names. (Google Vera Ellen, she's who I think of....)

Sue, definitely keep Violet. I've never thought of Vi as a nickname for Violet--and while Fi and Vi would sound weird, Fiona and Violet sound just fine. You could create a totally different nickname, if you wanted--Violet ~~ Letty ~~ Lottie... (another old lady name!).

Everr, I don't envy you the apartment and daycare hunting. They're both majorly stressful for me. As far as daycares go, I always check with the licensing boards (online) to review their inspections. I imagine there is an equivalent in CA....if a daycare had an inspection where something when really wrong, I bring it up with them when I visit or take the place off the list entirely. For example, at one place I was initially considering in TX, one of the inspectors observed a caretaker holding a child down on his mat at nap time. I mean, if that was going on when the inspector was there, imagine what they did when she wasn't. So that place got cut from the list, obviously, but I wouldn't have known if I hadn't looked up their inspection online. I don't mean to freak you out. I tend to repeat stuff that bothers me. I think it's a lot easier now that they're more verbal--at least now I know Aubs will tell me if someone hurts her. Ugh. Change the subject!

Cindy, was the RE optimistic about IUI? It sucks that you have to wait a cycle, but hopefully that will do it for you. I hope we both get BFPs this cycle so that you don't have to deal with all of that and we can be in a DDC together!


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## starling&diesel

Gosh ... I missed so much! I'm just going to drop in and start from here, okay?

*Sue* ... I'll be the dissenting voice here with regards to Violet. I know three Violets, and they are ALL called Vi for short. One elderly lady, and one school-aged girl, and one toddler, whose parents did not want Vi as a nickname, but who have since given up arguing with people. One of our naming rules is that if there is ANY way to shorten it to something we don't like, it's off the list.

*Mal* ... I love Veda ("vay-dah"). It's the name of an amazing musician (and acquaintance of mine) from Vancouver and I've always loved, loved, loved her name. It would've been one of my first picks, had I not already known a Veda.

*Ever* ... How stressful for you! I hope everything lines up beautifully very soon. If you believe in this sort of thing, would a spell or good luck charm help? When DP and I were looking for our first home together, I made a little talisman including all of things we were hoping for, and brought it with us when we went house-hunting. It's still on our wall today, six homes later!

Good luck, *Kate*! I never POAS before about eleven days dpo, but only because it's hard to get your hands on internet cheapies or dollar store ones up here in Canada. At fifteen bucks a pop, we try to keep it to three or four total. If I had access to cheapies, I think I'd start peeing at about seven dpo.

And good luck to you too, *Cindy*! You might not be feeling hopeful this cycle, but we all know that you just well might have a bfp, despite all the struggles. Some babies are determined like that. Fingers crossed for you!

*AFU*: The folk fest was great! Rained all weekend, but we had fun anyway. E had a blast running around and dancing and having fun. I ended up sticking a piece of duct tape onto her back with my name and number on it (a tip from a daycare worker friend, worked great!). I loved the link to the ID tattoos, Sue! I also saw other kids who had it written in indelible ink on their arms. Maybe not the healthiest, but certainly more efficient. I even got her to nap, thank goodness, so that we could stay right to the end. Saw some amazing performers and saw lots of friends we hadn't seen in a while.

Now we have two of my nieces staying with us while they go to theatre camp. One's twenty and one's ten, and man, do they take up a lot of room! I'm used to a quiet, tidy, peaceful home, and these girls are none of those things! Thankfully E is loving having them around.

So sorry if I've missed out on other news or happenings. Will endeavor to keep up! Thinking of you all!

Here's my non-existent belly at 28 weeks ... *Sue* has seen this in our ddc and knows that I can't for the life of me figure out where this belly is. I think I must've barfed off about fifteen pounds and am only now where I was to begin with. And a pic of my stunning first born. Sigh ... she's awesome.

*Mckittre* ... I think of you every time I put E in the wrap! Thanks for the inspiration, mama!


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## mckittre

Wow, suddenly a lot of activity here!

Cindy and Kate - baby dust to both of you

AK - I think you can call her whatever you want and make family stick to it, but past a certain age, a kid and her friends will make their own decision. If you would cringe if she chose Vi on her own as a kid, don't do it. If you wouldn't care as long as you could still call her Violet at home, I think it's OK. We don't do nicknames ourselves, but made sure we were OK with the options when we chose our kids' names. (I fully expect Katmai to try out "Kat" at some point in his life).

Starling - great pic in the wrap. Glad the festival was fun.

Mal - I like both those options, but I've never heard of Veda before - which makes it sound more interesting and intriguing to me.

Everr - must be so stressful not to have those things settled. We're lucky enough in our town to have free daycare if we ever need it (which we haven't yet, since we both work at home).

It's been a beautiful and busy summer here. The garden is going crazy, so we've been eating greens greens and more greens, as well as freezing some veggies for the winter. Hoping for berries soon. Have been getting the kids out as much as possible - to the beach, on the water, in the woods. I ran into a bear with both kids at the creek the other day - no issues, but it's so much freakier than running into one when I don't have babies with me. I understand better how mama bears feel! Katmai threw the biggest tantrum when I told him we had to leave the creek.

I just submitted a book proposal this morning, so I'm crossing my fingers on that, and we're getting ready for a big expedition this fall.

Katmai's moved into a physical exploration phase. He's been spending all his time climbing the yurt walls, climbing trees (the first couple branches from the ground), using his balance bike, and climbing all over me and his dad at every possible opportunity (including when I'm nursing his sister or changing her poopy diaper - not ideal).


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## Mal85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *starling&diesel*
> 
> *Mal* ... I love Veda ("vay-dah"). It's the name of an amazing musician (and acquaintance of mine) from Vancouver and I've always loved, loved, loved her name. It would've been one of my first picks, had I not already known a Veda.


I am using the same pronunciation. I've heard vee-dah, but I like vay-dah. I stole it from the movie "My Girl". I have loved the movie since I was a little girl and adore the character. Although in the movie, her name is spelled Vada, but that just looks wrong to me. I'd be afraid of it being pronounced vah-dah.

I am so jealous of your festival, we are missing ours like crazy this year!! The person who throws it every year got into some legal trouble several months ago and the property has been seized. We were heartbroken to be missing it this year. And my goodness, E is just gorgeous! Those eyes make me swoon!


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## justKate

Starling, you and E are both beautiful. I'm envious of her cuddled up to you in the wrap! I never could get Aubs to enjoy a back carry--she constantly tries to flip backwards. Although she's not too heavy for me in a front carry (26 lbs), it's too cumbersome with her head in front of my face and limbs in the way. I think our baby wearing days are over.


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks for all the feedback on the name Violet. Funny thing is that the grandmother we would be naming her after went by Vi! LOL! It might just move to the possible middle name category as much as I love the name. Funny thing about nicknames though. I never though of Nona as a nickname for Fiona but that is what we call her most often. It's how she says her own name and its stuck for us too! We still like Sylvia, Hazel, and Maeve. I wouldn't put Hazel and Violet together though because they are both colors. Ha! My current thought is Sylvia Violet, Hazel Maeve, or Maeve Violet, The last one doesn't flow as well though... you know when you use your stern voice to tell them to stop climbing on the table! It's important to test these things out!









Mal: I love Piper and Veda! Both super cute!

Starling: How is the name game going at your house?

Another sunny day in Kodiak! I'm pretty sure we've been transplanted to some other place! This is not typical of our summers. I finally forced myself to stay in and vacuum and clean the kitchen yesterday.

I just bought some popsicle molds and made some last night. I made a yummy smoothie with strawberries, OJ, coconut milk and yogurt and froze it. Fiona was pretty excited to check them this morning and even more so when I let her have one for breakfast!


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## starling&diesel

*Mal* ... I meant to also say that I love Piper! I wanted that for Esmé, but DP nixed it. We must have similar taste!

*JustKate* ... Too bad that Aubs isn't into it. I do still love doing back carries with E. She often asks to go up-up, which is her word for back carries.

*Sue* ... Hmm. Names. I think we've settled on a name, but I don't want to talk about it in our ddc, but I'm happy to here. Hawksley Sollis. We're not committing to the name until we meet the baby, but that's our front runner by far. We wanted a strong, unique name for this very last of the embryos, our little boy who was definitely meant to be. So Hawksley for a first name, Hawk for short. As for Sollis, that's from a dream I had in my early twenties where I had a baby boy in a sling, walking side-by-side by my partner (who looked just like DP!), through a beautiful forest. The baby in the dream was called Solace, but for the sake of teasing, we're going to spell it Sollis.

*Mckittre* ... Great to hear from you! What a little adventurer Katmai is! E is so not into exploring the world that way. I try to encourage her to use her whole body when she moves through the world, but she is a very cerebral child.

Must go. Waiting at the dentist.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: I love the name! I got little chills just now reading about your dream. Hawk is an awesome name! Loved the pics. I can see a belly. My best friend didn't show much with her first - even though she is a stick. Just carried differently. It bugged her though.

Mal: A friend just had a baby named Piperann Meadow. I like it!

Sue: Popsicles are the only way I can get fruit into Makenna these days! I use a teeny bit of plain yogurt, a spash of oj, a banana, strawberries, blueberries, a peach and whatever else is around. Figs lately. She rarely will drink a smoothie but she LOVES popsicles. So I let her eat a few of them each day - then we are both happy. And as for nicknames - we call Makenna "nenna" alot bc that is what she calls herself - very similar to you guys. Her little friends call her "kenna".

I'm having a nice day with my little one today. We snuggled in bed for a long time before getting out. Makenna's request. Very sweet. Then she got in the shower with me and was sooo delighted that she took a shower (she hated it when we tried a long time ago so she hasn't been in since). And when I put a new dress on her, she ran and found me a few minutes later saying "I look like you!!!". She was so pleased to look like Mama. We didn't really match today and I'm in exercise clothes, not a dress - but the dress is definitely my style. Anyway, just lots of sweet moments today.


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Aww, that does sound like a very sweet day  Ours has been the opposite of sweet, it's a million degrees we are both cranky :/

I like your popsicle idea! R has no problem eating fruit but he does looove popsicles! I need to get a popsicle-making tray.

Starling - I love the name!! I love hearing about dreams like that. And I love your pics! E is beautiful! I have a boba carrier that I like to use with R once in a while.

Kate - Thanks for the tip about checking the daycare's inspections. I looked up a few I was considering and they were all fine. The only issues they had were things like not having the fire escape route posted in every room, not having a parent-provided lunch labelled properly, not having a list of the daily schedule posted.. etc.. It was kind of interesting looking at all the things that are checked out because that is part of what I'll be doing when I graduate (public health inspections).

mckittre - I love hearing all your adventures! I can't imagine meeting up with a bear ever, especially with R with me!

And I love all the girl names that have been mentioned! You ladies all have excellent taste in names imo! Piper is a name I've always liked but it wouldn't go with my last name.

My first day of class is Sept 8 but I would like to start R in daycare the week before so I'm around for his first few days of care. I got llama llama misses mama from the library and omg, I wanted to cry. I explained to R that he too would be going to 'school' and mama wouldn't be there and he said ok and then asked if he could go now lol. Today my mom went to see an apartment that she loves and wants me to rent asap. I told her she could go ahead and submit the application because I haven't had any luck finding anything else. I trust her opinion but the location isn't exactly where I wanted to be. But it's not a big deal. There is a home daycare option a few blocks from this apartment so I've emailed to get the contact info for that place. The 2 regular daycares I was debating between aren't very convenient to get too. But, my mom is the one who will be doing most of the drop offs/pick ups and she seems ok with it so I guess that's fine.

We leave Saturday to go away for a week to a resort with my mom and aunt. I'm so looking forward to it. Air conditioning and a pool - yay! It is about 30 degrees inside my house and it is not fun!


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## Thursday Girl

have loved catching up, but now i must go make dinner.


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## Everrgreen

I'm still waiting to hear if I got this apartment. My mom called and was told that there are a few applications being considered. That worries me as I'm a student and single parent and I had to give my housing history for the past 4 years which includes 4 different places :/ Keep your fingers crossed for me!

As for daycare - my mom and my aunt decided to drop in on my favourite daycare centre today (I've called and emailed this week and never get a reply). And, it turns out my aunt knows the lady in charge of enrollment! And I've been bumped to the top of the wait list! Yay! So I should get a spot there for sure  My mom said there were a lot of kids there but the place is big and the staff/child ratio is the same as everywhere else I've seen. So hopefully all will work out there!

I will feel better when I know for sure on these two things but at least I'm making progress! (Or I should say, my mom is making progress.. thanks mom!)


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## AKislandgirl

Gillian: So great to hear that some things are falling into place. I hope the apartment works out. It must feel good to have the support of your mom and aunt. Yeah! Sounds like moving to her town is going to be the right decision.


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## justKate

Cindy, how are you holding up in the TWW?


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: I'm holding up pretty well. Of course the obsessive me started testing already. LOL. BFN of course. But I just test for fun since I have 50 cheapies. I know that there is no way there would be a line a 7 dpo. So I'm not in the least bit disappointed. Not sure why I think staring at a neg test is fun. Ha. How are you doing? I can't recall if you are in the TWW yet or not?

I did get a bit of good news yesterday. My RE had told me that diminished ovarian reserve can be an indicator of being a carrier for fragile X. If you are a carrier you have a 50% chance of a son having fragile X! So I got tested 2.5 weeks ago to see if I am a carrier. I finally got the results back yesterday and I am NOT a carrier! I am so relieved!!! I'm not sure we would have kept trying with my eggs if I were.

Yesterday I took the sweetest picture of DH and Makenna napping and sent it to my MIL. Then I looked at it again and realized Makenna had wet the bed! Ooops! It's still cute though. Let me see if i can post it.

Cindy


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## Vegan Princess




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## justKate

That's too cute! I didn't even notice the bed-wetting part until you pointed it out. That will be a good one to show her when she's 13.







I'm 8 dpo today and testing, for fun really. BFN, of course. I have 9 cheapies left so I figured, why not. They're so tiny! Next cycle (I mean a BFP this cycle would be better, but if there's a next cycle), I'll just get dollar store tests and try to have some self control. I'm just too excited right now.

Here's my chart--nothing really happening except me being crazy: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/320676


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## Thursday Girl

I love the photo of them sleeping together, you can crop out the pee no problem. (but every time you look at the photo you will think about the pee. I have a photo of Jewel sleeping with a whole lot of creams, lotions, and such that she was using as toys. Super cute picture, but she had pooped her diaper and since she was sleeping I didn't change it, but every time I look at the picture I remember that the whole room smelled like toddler poo)



Cindy, so happy you found out you aren't a carrier.

Everr, your mom sounds awesome. I love to hear about awesome supportive moms of adults. I am going to be like that someday!

I am kind of freaking out, my period is late and I view this as a very bad thing.DH is insistent that the moon isn't right and it should all be fine, but I have been using a period tracker on my phone and it's showing me late.


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## justKate

Oh my goodness Courtney. From what I remember you were pretty sure that you were done at three, right? Hopefully it turns out the way that will be best for your family.









I just realized that I haven't posted a photo of Aubs in ages. I'm going to look for one....

Here's Aubrey in the pool in our front yard a week ago:


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## Thursday Girl

oh, she's so big and she is just beautiful!

(and yes, I was very much done but Hubs has been resistant to getting snipped, turns out one day he might like to have another babe. After this scare I'm just going to go get that arm inplant or something, one that will last a nice long time even though I distrust birth control)


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## Thursday Girl

.


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## AKislandgirl

I'm loving the photos! Such beautiful kids!

Courtney: I'll be thinking about you! I hope everything works out.

Fiona and I are heading out tomorrow to visit my family in Washington. I can't wait! We will see both of my sisters and all of their kids. My parents lives next door to my sister with her huge family. She has 8 kids! Fiona will have tons of cousins to play with. They also have a farm. They are starting a goat dairy so right now they have over a dozen goats. Many of them are babies that have been bottle fed and are super tame. She'll be walking them on a leash!! Hoping the flight goes well but she's usually a good flyer. This will be the first time we fly with her own seat! Looking forward to the space! Especially with my pregnant belly! That would be a long flight with her on my lap!

Here is a picture of my farm girl with her favorite chicken. We've had some great weather this summer. More sundress weather then we've had in Kodiak in years!


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## Vegan Princess

Courtney: Eeck! Have you tested? I hope it turns out how you want! Too funny about the pic reminding you of poo! I guess this pic will remind me of pee - but I think it won't remind DH so much and I think he will treasure it. I'm the one that usually gets most of the snuggles so he REALLY cherishes each one. It's only been relatively recently that she would sleep snuggling him. And actually, she snuggles with him during the night more than me now.

Kate: Aubrey looks like such a little girl! Beautiful!

Sue: I hope your travels go smoothly and you have a delightful vacation!! I got M a seat on my short flight to san diego and it was so nice. Though I will say - she insisted on being on my lap for take off and landing anyway.

AFM: DH is starting a new job soon and taking some vacation days at the end of this week. We cannot decide if we should go somewhere or where. We keep tossing around Hawaii but the last minute tickets are so expensive. I wish we knew how much we would ultimatley spend on fertility treatments so we could know if we could spare the money. I think likely we will have a staycation. Maybe a night or two an hour or 2 away on the coast and get a sitter and have a big night out in San Francisco. Maybe wine country, etc.

Next week I am going to start contract work again. I'll be helping out the guy who replaced me when I left my old company. He got promoted so I guess basically I will be doing parts of my old job, but from home and a lot fewer hours (and for a lot less pay). I figured I should make use of the time M is in preschool and also I need to keep active in my field bc I do plan to go back some day. Though who knows when that will be, now that baby #2 is taking so long! Anyway, it'll only be upto 20 hours/week - likely a lot less.

Cindy


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## Vegan Princess

Oh I missed the pic Sue! I love it! We just expanded out chicken run yesterday. The girls have triple the space to roam. I think they are thrilled! Funny to see how big my buff is going to get. I keep thinking she looks pretty close to grown and then I see another chicken and realize how far she still has to go!


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## Thursday Girl

Love the chicken picture.

We just got a letter saying we have to get rid of our chickens, we don't meet the 200 feet setback rule.

also I did take a test and I am pregnant, I have decided to be happy about it. this actually works into the chicken thing because with a fourth baby coming DH and I agree we need to move, so out of the city we go. I have no idea how the logistics will work broke as we are, but we'll figure it out.


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## Vegan Princess

OMG Courtney!!! Congrats! I know it's not what you planned for but I'm glad you've decided to be happy about it. If it is the motivation to move where you will truly be happy than it is for sure meant to be! How could you not love another little blessing running around. You must be in such shock right now! Now send your fertility vibes my way sista!


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## AKislandgirl

Courtney! OMG! This is very exciting! I know that you really felt you were done with 3 but you are such a great mom! I know that you will find peace with it and be thrilled as the pregnancy goes on! And moving to a place that suits your family better will be great too! Yeah baby!


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## Thursday Girl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess*
> 
> OMG Courtney!!! Congrats! I know it's not what you planned for but I'm glad you've decided to be happy about it. If it is the motivation to move where you will truly be happy than it is for sure meant to be! How could you not love another little blessing running around. You must be in such shock right now! Now send your fertility vibes my way sista!


You can have them, ~~~~~~Fertility~~~~~~~~~~~~>vegan princess


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## Thursday Girl

oh, and now we are goign to start looking in Washington State, but I have no idea where to look. my In-laws live in sammamish, but a) it's too expensive and b) we need a farm.


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## Mal85

Wow Courtney!!! I'm so shocked, but also so excited for you! I know it's definitely not something you were expecting, but I'm glad you're able to come around to the idea. Feel free to vent about it too if you need to, I'm sure your emotions are all over the place right now. Can't wait to hear more about your move, that will be so exciting for you and your girls!

I love seeing pics of all the kiddos. I need to take some recent ones of Owyn and get one on here.

We've been struggling lately with Owyn's attitude. She has really started to become quite nasty lately. She yells at me and DH multiple times a day. Tells us to Go Away! or Leave Me Alone! or NOOOOO!!! or (one she learned from a daycare kid) Shut Up! while hitting, kicking, screaming. She gets in these moods when she is just all over the place. She's ultra giggly, ultra whiny and ultra snobby all at the same time. It usually ends in her not getting her way with something and throwing a huge temper tantrum and/or smacking one of us. We've had to start using time-out for these times. It's really more to get her to calm down than anything else. This has been daily thing recently. She's also becoming even bossier and nasty with the daycare kids. I'm actually thinking her time spent in daycare somewhere else is going to be very good for her. She really needs to spend some time in a place where she is not the alpha omega, maybe it'll take her down a notch or two. I hate to say it, but she really needs.


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## Thursday Girl

Mallory, Junes has been acting the same way lately. It's uber annoying.


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## justKate

Oh wow. Courtney.







That is a lot to take in. You're going to be busy! Do you know if this will be a March or April baby? I'm hoping for April in case Cindy and I end up in the April DDC....

Sue, I love how friendly your chickens are. My dad has two of those big blonde ones (Barbie-Q and Dumpling), but they're not all that friendly even though they've been hand-fed since they were born. We catch them and pet them anyway.

Mal, one of the things I loved about daycare was when Aubs got moved into a class of bigger kids. She needed to be knocked off her horse for a few weeks.


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## starling&diesel

*Courtney*, Wow! I wonder if this will be your boy? Many hugs and hugely supportive vibes come to you from my corner of the Pacific Northwest. And good luck on the move ... I love moving, but I know most folks don't. Be sure to take a few deep, steadying breaths every once and a while.

Back for more later!

Naptime!


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## AKislandgirl

I really feel like there is something to that half birthday thing. More testing, meltdowns, etc... Hopefully it will fade away soon. Fiona likes to yell at me to "Go toway!" (instead of go away!)

Courtney: We are hoping to find ourselves land in WA or OR soon. We aren't sure where exactly because it will all depend on DH's job. We do know we want to be West of the mountains though. We just really want a farm of our own and space to spread out in. I think it would be an amazing place to raise our girls. He's started on the job hunt more seriously now in hopes that maybe within a year we can move. It's all up in the air right now of course. I would love to be on Whidbey Island with my family but there are no jobs so that is out. We'll just have to see. Keep me updated on your search!


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## Thursday Girl

We also want to be west of the mountains, my dream place is port townsend but from what I have seen it is quite expensive. We also must have a farm. I am looking on zipreality, and I guess Hubs will have to find a job out there because I don't think trying to start a business in a brand new place without contacts will work...and I don't know how well solar would work out in washington...amazingly enough it would probably do better then here in Fl. Hubs is unsure though, while it's our dream place business is picking up and he thinks he really has a chance, I told him no matter what we want to end up out there and it seems like this is a better time to go then after he has a well established business holding him here.

kate, it looks like the start of April, which is kind of neat b/c we already have a start of Jan, Feb, and March baby. and they are in 03, 06, 09, and this one would be 12. I enjoy patterns.


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## mckittre

Courtney - congratulations! I'm glad you're (your husband too?) feeling good about it, and hope you guys find a great farm to move to. Lituya was a surprise for us as well, before we'd really decided whether we wanted a second or not. A very happy surprise.

I grew up in Seattle, and have family in the northwest. I think it's an awesome place, just not quite as awesome as Alaska.


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## Everrgreen

Courtney - Oh my goodness! Congratulations! I'm glad that you have decided to be happy about this  You are an awesome mom - you will be fine! What was your hubby's reaction to the news?

Good luck figuring out all your move stuff. This will be a busy year for you!

Mal - I have rough moments with R too. Usually it means he needs a nap. I think it's a normal toddler phase anyway!

Cindy - Sending you lots of fertility vibes!! I hope you don't have to wait too much longer! Enjoy your holiday time with your dh - I think even a staycation would be nice 

AK - Love the pic - so cute! I hope you have a great time on your trip! R would love a farm trip like that!!

Kate - She is a beautiful girl! I love her hair 

AFM - I got a call yesterday that I have a full daycare subsidy! Woohoo! I just need to pick a daycare by August 8. This will save me so much money which is awesome!


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: That's awesome! Canada continues to amaze me!!


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## Thursday Girl

Everr, that is awesome, canada's cool!

DH's first reaction was to continually repeat "oh my god!" he is feeling better now that he has made a plan. Which sadly does not involve Wa. So we will move to a farm somewhere near Tampa for now.


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## justKate

Courtney, I'm glad your DH is going to be okay with the new little one. I think by the time s/he gets here, it will feel right.

In other news, I'm 12 DPO:


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## starling&diesel

*justKate*! AWESOME! Look at that beautiful, proud, unambiguous second line! Yippee!










I'll admit, I saw your previous poas results in the ttc thread from the main page and was just DYING to see the good news over here. I was even going to post something like: Umm, justkate, do you have something you want to share with us?

So happy for you! When doe that make you due? YAY! Are you and Courtney going to be due date buddies?

*Courtney* ... Awesome to hear that the news is settling in a bit and that you and your husband are making plans. I'll admit that I got excited when you said you might move to WA. Then when Sue moves down there, we could've had some great camp outs on Sue's farm!

*Sue* ... I can't wait until you get a farm in WA so that we can come down and pitch a tent in your field and do crafty, waldorfy stuff with the kids! Remind me again when you're planning to leave AK? How's the trip going?


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## Thursday Girl

Kate, that's Fabulous!! And yep, we are both April 2012!!

Starling, we aren't finished having discussions yet, thereis still a small chance we might be going.

So I have a twin sister, her last period started 4 days after mine and she DTD during her fertile window, I am waiting to hear from her. I RALLY hope she is, that would be so freaking cool!


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## Everrgreen

Kate - YAY!!! Congratulations!!!

Courtney - Sending lots of baby dust to your sis! That would be so cool for you to be pregnant together 

Cindy - Still sending lots of baby dust to you too!! It's time for you to join a due date club!

And yes, Canada rocks  Courtney, maybe you should move here instead of WA ;o)


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## Thursday Girl

parts of WA don't snow so much, Hubs has a problem with snow. I'd totally move to Canada though.

so I made a discreet announcement on facebook about the pregnancy, it's just a photo that is titled news, I think it's absolutely hilarious AND hubs and I had this conversation before I drew the cartoon.



I just love ridiculous stuff like that.


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## justKate

Courtney, too funny. I'm goofy like that but DH would not be amused.

Starling, you can call me out, it's fine! I wanted to be sure--TBH I feel sort of guilty because this one came easily, and I feel like there are a couple ladies (here and IRL) that somehow deserve it more. I know that's crazy, and we can't control these things, but if I could give my BFP to one of those ladies I definitely would, and wait a little longer for my own. But anyway. I'm still spotting quite a bit, so hopefully s/he is just burrowing in tight.

Took a digi last night and showed DH, who went into his we're gonna be broke meltdown, as if he didn't know we were TTC. I'm trying not to let it bug me, because I know things will be fine and this is just how he responds to change, but its hard to keep him from raining on my parade when he's the one that should be happiest with me. Whatever, I'm going to ignore him until he gets it together. I think part of the problem is that he grew up really poor--dad in prison, getting food from the church, evicted from their trailer all the time--and he's terrified of money being tight. I dunno.

Last night Aubs had a nightmare, and woke up crying "my ball doh away! my ball back please!" Funny.


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## Thursday Girl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justKate*
> 
> Courtney, too funny. I'm goofy like that but DH would not be amused.
> 
> Starling, you can call me out, it's fine! I wanted to be sure--TBH I feel sort of guilty because this one came easily, and I feel like there are a couple ladies (here and IRL) that somehow deserve it more. I know that's crazy, and we can't control these things, but if I could give my BFP to one of those ladies I definitely would, and wait a little longer for my own. But anyway. I'm still spotting quite a bit, so hopefully s/he is just burrowing in tight.
> 
> Took a digi last night and showed DH, who went into his we're gonna be broke meltdown, as if he didn't know we were TTC. I'm trying not to let it bug me, because I know things will be fine and this is just how he responds to change, but its hard to keep him from raining on my parade when he's the one that should be happiest with me. Whatever, I'm going to ignore him until he gets it together. I think part of the problem is that he grew up really poor--dad in prison, getting food from the church, evicted from their trailer all the time--and he's terrified of money being tight. I dunno.
> 
> Last night Aubs had a nightmare, and woke up crying "my ball doh away! my ball back please!" Funny.


I totally feel that way too, I have 3 good friends who have been trying for years to get pregnant and my heart aches for them, then here I am. It's so unfair I want to scream sometimes.

as for the whole money freak out thing, EXACTLY!

as for the cartoon he doesn't really care about it one way or the other but thinks it's cute that I am so enamored with it.


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## Mal85

Wow Kate, that certainly didn't take long! Congratulations!! So much good news here this week!

This week has been rough at our house. Owyn has been very trying and I'm stressing since I'm nervous about starting my job and everything going well with that. Then, today the girl who is supposed to watch Owyn until my sister can start doing it called me and said she has to have surgery the day before my sister does! She doesn't think she'll need to be off more than 2 weeks and has been calling around to other home daycares in town trying to help me find someone, but I'm not thrilled with the people she's come up with. I know their reputations and they're not good. Then, I really don't want to take Owyn somewhere for a couple weeks, pull her out and take her to this girl, only to pull her out again and take her to my sister when she's ready. So, I feel like I'm back at square one trying to find someone for those 6 weeks.

I'm sure Owyn's behavior has a lot to do with how stressed I've been and the fact that she hears us talking about my job and daycare and I have told her that Mommy is going to work and that she's going to go to a baby sitter then she'll be able to go play with her cousins while I'm working. So, she knows something is going on... and the baby, which she has suddenly become much more aware of ever since she felt the baby move last week. Now she wants to feel the baby move all the time and yells at my belly "Wake up Baby!!" Poor kid just has a lot of big changes coming her way and a Mama who isn't feeling very patient right now.


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## mckittre

Congratulations Kate!

Cindy - I hope it's your turn soon!

Katmai has been a bit of a beast lately. Maybe it's the age, and maybe it's because he never sleeps enough. How do your kids wake up in the morning? Katmai pretty much always wakes up in a full-on tantrum -- screaming about wanting us to get up, wanting food, or just wailing incoherently. It seems like he's still tired, but it's kind of impossible to get him to sleep later. He might actually be hungry -- it seems like he's always too distracted to eat dinner, no matter what I make. On the occasions he takes a nap, he wakes up screaming from that too though, so I don't know. He wakes his sister up too, of course, but at least she's usually fairly happy when she wakes.

I don't think I've put a picture up here in forever either:


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## justKate

Guess all those months of charting to avoid helped me get the timing right! I'm a little concerned that I'm still spotting, but I did spot some with Aubs, so I'm not inclined to intervene. Hopefully babe is just burrowing in tight.









Mckittre, cute that they're doing the same thing in the pics. I can't believe how big Lituya is!

Mal, the daycare situation sounds like a nightmare. Hopefully a good solution is right around the corner for you. Aubs had a period of better behavior (like 25-27 months?) but now she's back to herself. Mostly testing boundaries, eating issues, and intentionally pooping in her panties. Yesterday I changed 5 pairs of slightly poopy panties. Today she sat on the potty for an hour (in front of a dvd, no less!) and then pooped her panties as soon as she got up.







I'm beyond frustrated but trying not to let it show. I refuse to put her back in diapers during the day, so I guess I'll just have to deal with poopy panties until she gets over it. I guess this is better than the constipation issue we had before--plums and ground flax seed took care of that. Always something, right? I think a big part of our trouble is that my expectations increase as her vocabulary increases. Like I expect that just because she understands and can respond with words, she should be able to conform her behavior, and obviously that's not the case!


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: CONGTRATULATIONS!!!!!!! What a beautiful test!! I'm am so happy for you. You guys hit it out of the park on the first at bat!  Please don't feel guilty. I am nothing but thrilled for you. I know you've wanted this for a long time, despite not being able to try until now. I know things will work out for me when they are supposed to. I am impatient, but these days I am so thankful for still being able to cuddle my little girl to sleep in my bed, instead of having to having to focus more of my attention on a newborn. I KNOW Dh and I will have another baby - I'm just not exactly sure that will come to be just yet. I had implantation spottitng for 2 days w/M. But if it is a lot, maybe go in for betas or an early ultrasound to rule out an ectopic! That can be a sign of one.

Mal: Sorry you are having a tough time! I feel like we went through that a bit ago. I recall posting on here that we were using time out all the time. Now we hardly ever do. It got way better! Hopefully once everything calms down, you'll have your angel child back!

Erin: M used to always wake up upset! Not so much anymore. I'm not sure what changed. I can't recall if it was around the time she had her surgery or before. But waking up upset CAN be a sign of adenoid troubles - like they aren't getting the sleep they need. Not saying he has that, but you are probably right that he is still tired. Love the pictures! You always take beautiful pics!

Courtney: Any word about your sis? That would be so fun for you two to be pregnant and due the same time!

AFM: We went to Calistoga for a couple days for my birthday and just some time away (so I wan't not posting bc I was sad about all the good news in here). It was hot and gorgeous and Makenna did great at the wineries. The wineries had grape juice and coloring books and dogs and cats. We picked some fun ones - a caste, one with a tram ride up a mountain, etc. There is also a place called Train Town in Sonoma that had a little train that went to a mini town with a petting zoo. Very cute. She actually cried when we pulled up at home last night. She wanted to go back to the rental house bc she had so much fun (and she missed the pool already). DH and I got a sitter and went out in the city last night after we got back. Went to the restaurant we had our first date at 4 yrs and 1 day ago.  And to a swanky cocktail bar. It's been ages since I've had true cocktails! I think I am pickled from all the wine and booze and rich food. LOL. Time for a detox!

I'm 14 dpo. No AF yet but tests are all negative. Looks like we'll be starting our IUI cycle in a few days. I'm glad DH and I got a nice wine trip and night out in the city before I am pregnant again! So that more than makes up for not being pregnant this month. 

MAL: Remind me how many dpo you were when you got your BFP? Just curious. Even though I know my luteal phase is just long from the progesterone I'm taking to extend it.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Cindy: Had to go back in the calendar to see, but I was either 16 or 18 dpo when I got my BFP. I had stopped testing for 4 or 5 days though because I was tired of seeing the negatives, so it could have shown up a couple days earlier than that, but who knows.

Sounds like you guys had a great trip! There is a train tour in our area that takes you to all the nearby wineries. You'd be surprised how many wineries are near us here in mid-Missouri and they're actually pretty good! We've been to a few of them, and I almost always buy wine from one of the "local" wineries when I'm buying. We've always talked about doing the train tour for a weekend when we can leave the kids with grandparents. Sounds like such a great time!

We finally got the daycare situation worked out, I hope this time it sticks! My daycare family has a back up baby sitter they've used since I started baby sitting for them. They are going to send they're kids there for a few weeks until she can quit her job and stay at home, so we thought it'd be good for Owyn to have her daycare buddy there with her if she can't be at the place with her cousin. So, I called the woman yesterday. She only does daycare on a temporary basis or works as a back-up plan for a few parents in town, but she was happy to take Owyn for the weeks I need her. I'm feeling good about it. I don't personally know her, but I know many people who are friends with her or have used her for daycare and they all LOVE her. I've never heard a person have one complaint about her. I'm going to take Owyn over to meet her the week before I start working. She also has a daughter who just turned 3, so I'm hoping her and Owyn hit it off. Just from my conversation with her, she was sounding much more reliable than any of the people I've talked to so far which really puts my mind at ease. She's also more expensive than anyone else since she only works on a temporary basis, but I think my peace of mind is worth a few extra dollars a day!


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## Thursday Girl

yep, a few extra dollars is totally worth it.

Cindy, the trip sounds fantastic. I WILL make sure I get a date with Hubs before the new baby is born, I don't know if we've had a single one since before Juniper was born.

as for my sister, still no period but she isn't testing again until Monday. I am so anxious to hear. Our whole lives we have wanted to have a baby together and this is my last kid so my last chance.

Kate, all of my kids back slid on their potty training after they had gotten it, I stuck with Undies and didn't make a big deal about it and eventually they went back to fully trained.

we are leaving on our vacation tomorrow so I probably won't check in (and then have gobs to catch up on), we are headed to Colonial Williamsburg, Jamestown, a half day in Philly, and sesame place. I have SOO Much to do before we leave in the morning, it's going to be a really late night, which sucks because I have been so tired. Luckily I can sleep while hubs drives.


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## Thursday Girl

oh and junes has been nursing for an hour and is falling asleep, cross your fingers she stays down all night and doesn't pop up at 1 am ready to play


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## justKate

So for those who conceived without help--when did your midwife see you for the first time? Just curious, because I remember having a "viability scan" with Aubs around 8 weeks... it was good to see a heart beat and that she was where she was supposed to be. This time, they don't want to see me until 10-12 weeks. I guess they'll be able to hear the heart beat on doppler by then? I guess there's no hurry, it would just be good to see that little flicker once.

I'm also still a little freaked out by my best friend having twins out of the blue--I would really like to know a.s.a.p. if I were in that position--mostly to pay better attention to my nutrition.

My brain is still racing! Its weird how you can be surprised by something you planned.


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: Are you planning a homebirth? With Makenna, my midwife saw me around 8 weeks, I think. Didn't try for a heartbeat until 12ish weeks when I came back. When I was pregnant this last time, I planned to start care at my OB (since I wanted to keep getting my progesterone prescription filled) and then transfer to a homebirth midwife. I saw the OB at 6.5 weeks to see the heartbeat and then again at 9 weeks (no heartbeat). The midwife I chose didn't want to start care until 12-13 weeks and she also didn't want to use the doppler then even to find a heartbeat. I think she prefers to wait until you can use a fetoscope. The other midwifes I interviewed had said I could start care whenever I wanted.

The birth center I used for Makenna, in san francisco, closed a few months ago. They moved south of the city and further away from me (I moved east of the city after M was born). I chose a new midwife for my last pregnancy. Now it turns out the newer center is closing bc of funding issues (malpractice insurance mostly, I think). My midwife is moving very close to where I live and doing homebirths until she regroups and reopens a new birth center. So hopefully I can concieve and give birth while she is local to me! I like the new midwife we chose but I am very comfortable with and have a ton of faith in my old midwife!

Courtney: Have a great trip! Keep us posted about your sister!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Kate - I think it was around 10 weeks? I can't remember.. And it was just a meet and get info appt. My next appt was at 15 weeks (I think? It was 3 years ago!) and that is the one where we listened for the heart beat.

Not sure what to tell you about the pottying troubles. This seems to be the topic that comes up with random moms I meet at playgrounds/play centres and I always feel a bit guilty to say that R is fully out of diapers and it was easy









Courtney - Enjoy your trip!! I hope Junes slept for you. I don't know how you have the patience for an hour of nursing! I usually cut R off after 15 minutes (if that.. I think I'm ready for him to wean)

Mal - Glad you got your daycare issues straightened out! I *have to* get that done this week. Today is a holiday but starting tomorrow my full time job is securing a spot in daycare!

Cindy - Sounds like you had a great little getaway! Lots of fun! And now you can start your IUI cycle relaxed and ready to make a baby 

mckittre - Great pictures! I can't believe how big Lituya is now! Wow time goes fast! And R has had times where he has woken completely upset/mad. Sometimes I think it might be a bad dream. Usually though his eyes open and he starts listing food he wants to eat 

I think I'm the only person here that hasn't had a new baby/isn't pregnant/isn't trying to conceive. Whenever I see families with 2 boys it makes my heart ache. I would love for R to have a brother (or a sister, but it's mostly the boys that pull on my heart). Maybe some day I guess. Although it won't be quite the same if R is several years older than his sibling. Oh well. C'est la vie!

Not much new here. Just busy daycare and apartment hunting as usual. Daycare has to be decided this week, so fingers crossed that it works out!


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## Mal85

When I got pregnant with Owyn, they wanted to see me as soon as they could since I wasn't sure about when I conceived. Turns out I was around 8-9 weeks when I was seen. This time around, they had me do labs to make sure my hcg was rising as it should be, I did that a couple of times right around 4 or 5 weeks and as seen for the first time at about 6 weeks for a dating ultrasound. My cycles are really long, so if they hadn't done the dating ultrasound, my due date would be 3 weeks earlier which I knew was wrong.

Ever: Better knock on some wood about the potty struggles! Owyn has been super easy for the most part too. I've just followed her lead and although she had a little trouble with pooping the first couple of weeks, she's really caught on quickly and easily. Now, we're regressing. It's been over 2 months of smooth sailing and the diapers have been put away all summer and now she's decided she doesn't like using the toilet anymore. It's too inconvenient for her I guess. She tells me she needs to potty while she's peeing on the floor and she's back to pooping only in a pull-up... that is when she doesn't just poop in her underwear. I was all set to send a fully potty trained kid to daycare and now she throws this at me right before I start work! Just like with her behavior, I'm trying to be understanding. She has a lot of changes coming her way and she knows it, I know that can really throw a kid off but between this and the behavior issues we've had the last week, I'm ready to pull my hair out!


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Oh no! That's actually been a worry I've had - it was too easy, he's going to regress at some point! We've been just over 2 months mostly accident-free (I can probably count on one hand his accidents since the end of May). And I've sold the diapers so that's not an option for him! I think him going to daycare will be a big test just because he will be so busy and he will have to get new people to help him potty. We'll see! I hope Owyn's regression is just a short phase for you!

So, I found out this morning that I didn't get the apartment my mom applied to for me. So that sucks  I'm sure something else will come up. My focus for today though is daycare - I'm off to start making calls now!


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## starling&diesel

*justKate* ... both times we didn't see our midwife until about 12 weeks, and even then she didn't try to look for the heartbeat until the next visit at about 15 weeks. However, we did have the 8 week confirmation at our RE's office, so we had that early reassurance, for what it's worth so early on. Worth tonnes to me! I get that they can't do anything if there is no heartbeat that early, but it sure is nice to hear it and see that little flicker on the screen. With just a doppler, most midwives won't check before 14-16 weeks or so because if they can't find it (yet) they don't want the parents to worry unnecessarily, just because it's too soon.

*ever* ... Bummer about the apartment! That sucks. Have you got some runners up?

*mckittre* ... Love the pictures. Those look like two really happy, healthy kids. I quite envy your life up there in Alaska!

Have a great vacation, *Courtney*!

*Cindy* ... Your jaunt away sounded lovely too!

*Potty learning* ... It'll happen someday, right? E knows all the components but just isn't interested in putting them together.

*AFM*: I'm 30 weeks now, and starting to lose sleep. Restless legs, hip pain, short of breath if I end up on my back, excitement. It's ridiculous! Just when I need to be getting as much sleep as I possibly can, my body refuses to cooperate. I think this is prep for when the new baby will be keeping me up anyway ... right? I'm going to call to make an appointment for accupuncture to stave off high blood pressure, even though it's been fine so far. It was fine last time until about 37 weeks. That's when my liver and kidneys started to give up the ghost ... thanks, pre-eclampsia.

I've been so enjoying this pregnancy ... it's going too fast!


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## AKislandgirl

I've missed so much! Just read 2 pages worth of posts!

Kate: Congratulations!! What great news!

We are having a great trip with my family. Fiona loves playing with her cousins. Some potty regression for sure because she is so busy. We've really just been relaxing, taking in the beach, the farm, the sun, the farmers markets...  It has been really nice.

I don't have a lot of time to write but just wanted to do a quick check in!


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## Everrgreen

I am so frustrated right now, I'm actually in tears. Which means R is sitting beside me crying too, so that's great. I finally got in touch with the day care. The woman I need to speak with there never returns my messages or emails. But I just called and she happened to be the one who answered. And she was just so unconcerned with anything. Just a whole lot of "oh I don't know yet if we will have a spot" "oh I don't think I have time this week to show you the daycare" (after I said I'm only in town this week and won't be back until the end of the month), and when I mentioned I need to let the city know because of my subsidy she just said "yes, well let me get your number and I will try and call you back" WTF??? And her tone just sounded so indifferent to me and like she couldn't care less. I'm so upset.

I don't know where else to send R. I have one other place that hopefully has a spot, I need to call them now (as soon as I stop crying so I don't sound totally crazy). That's it though, every other place is wait-listed.

And apartment hunting isn't much better. I saw once place today that is in the middle of a renovation and the carpet was disgusting. The woman there is supposed to call me back once she confirms that the flooring is being replaced. And there are 2 other options I've called and left messages but again, no one ever calls me back.


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## Everrgreen

Well I've left a message at the other daycare.. and emailed.. Hopefully I hear from them.

I am feeling so defeated right now.


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## Nillarilla

Haven't totally caught up yet. Still have a couple of pages to go.

Thursday Congratulations!

Justkate Congratulations!

Ever sending some daycare and apartment finding vibes your way.

Hope all the pregnancies are going well.

Dee is doing well we are having some issues with crying hysterically at the word no. Oh and trying to wean her from the pacifier ugh! That's not going so well.

AFM: School is looming in the not so distant future. I have orientation at the end of the month. I got a grant which will cover tuition but nothing else. So that's a bit of a relief but I'm still looking for other sources of income. I'm keeping my job until at least the end of October but maybe december as I only have 2 courses in the first semester and 4! in the second. Not going to be able to work much in the second. My mother moved in with us in June, she has no job, no money, no house. So basically I have another full grown dependent. It's been a bit hard having someone in my space and disciplining my kids. I posted in parents as parents about it but no responses as of yet. Too long to get into here. But it feels like she thinks she knows best and wants to 'help' me. She can't even help herself right now..... so frustrating.

My grandfather had a cardiac arrest and almost died but he's pulled through although his mental status is very poor and he has to be placed in long term care. That's been stressful since the care he received in hospital was pretty atrocious.

Well I am working right now so I better get back to it.


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## mckittre

Nilla - that sounds hard! I feel so lucky that I've been blessed with helpful parents and in-laws.

Everr - Ouch! It's tough to get that kind of uninterested reaction. You'd think that a daycare should understand that even though one more kid may not be a big deal to them, finding a spot is hugely important to the parent. There must be a spot for R somewhere - I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.

justKate - With Katmai I saw the midwife first at 9 weeks, but could have gone later. With Lituya it was 11 weeks, and I had an ultrasound right then because I'd just discovered I was pregnant and had no idea whatsoever how far along I was.

AK - sounds nice. I do wish my kids had cousins. I really liked spending time with mine when I was little.

Starling - I can't believe it's so close already!

Pottying is off and on here, with more off than I'd like. It seems like this is a never-ending process. I kind of wish I hadn't started so soon, since I'm sick to death of accidents. But he does way too well for me to want to go all the way back to diapers either. Sigh...

We're in the thick of summer food gathering here - getting fish and berries and dealing with a garden that's kind of overflowing with food. Berry picking is a big hit with Katmai - I think blueberries and salmonberries and currants are mostly all he ate today. I have to throw in one more picture to show off my broccoli.


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## Everrgreen

MUCH better day today and it's only 10am! I found an apartment that I love! Yay! I think I will get it, hopefully.. I am including my moms info on the application because my info sucks  I did talk to the landlord about the situation a bit and I always get that subtle disappointment from them when they find out I'm not a working professional but hopefully it will be ok. Anyway, it is a second floor apartment in a big old home in a nice neighbourhood. And I have access to the attic which isn't totally finished but would make an awesome play area for Royce. It is just very warm and cozy and homey 

AND I have 2 daycares that have an opening plus one more that thinks they do (they are going to call back asap and the lady actually acted like she cared that I had to know soon for the subsidy!). Of the 2 that know they have a spot, the one I have seen and I am going to see the other tomorrow and then I can decide.

So so so relieved today!


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## Everrgreen

mckittre - Love the picture! That's awesome! R does that with the broccolli at the grocery store, I have to keep it out of his reach. I have a tiny veggie garden but it's not going so well. The broccolli did ok, but I was away when it really came in and so now it doesn't look quite right.. The peppers haven't started at all, so I don't think I'll see those. The tomatoes are coming in so I did one thing right! And the onions are sort of coming in but are still pretty small. The spinach died a long time ago. This was my first attempt at growing veggies and all I had was a tiny little 2'x6' area. And my yard gets a lot of sun and I haven't been home much to water it. Oh well!

Nilla - It sounds like you have a lot on your plate! Can you not get OSAP (not sure if you're in Ontario or what other provinces have)? I had absolutely no luck finding other grants/bursaries. My only other sources of income are CCTB/UCCB and child support. And my subsidy is going to make a huge difference in my budget. Good luck with your program! You must be excited! I'm so excited about starting school  And if it makes you feel any better I have 5 courses this fall and 8 (!!!) in the winter (undergrad, but still!) I will take a look at your other thread when I have a minute (R just woke up from his nap)


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## justKate

Ever, what a relief! Hopefully one of the daycares will end up being perfect for R. Glad that you're feeling better today. I know stuff like that really really can ruin my life for a day.

Mckittre, I am totally jealous of your garden. Where we're living now...it's not really an option, since we're renting. I might do something in pots next spring if I'm not too crazy with the new baby. Wow, so weird to say that.

Nilla, glad to see you back! Sounds like you have so much going on right now. Big hugs about your mom. My inlaws are the same way--it's like having two giant preschoolers around. Except you can't tell them what to do, exactly. It's hard to deal with them when they visit--I can't imagine them living with me. Does she have social security by any chance? I'll check out your PAP post... I'm sorry you're having to deal with that.









Sue, glad you had a good vacation! I love the idea of cousins, but with my only sibling living in the UK sans-kids, i don't really see it happening. My cousin has two little ones, and hopefully now that we're on the east coast we'll see them more. I guess they would be Aubs' third cousins? And they're 5 years and 6 mos., which aren't great ages yet. But soon it will matter less, of course.

Starling, 30 weeks?! Wow. You'll be a family of 4 so soon!

Speaking of families of 4, DH thinks we need a bigger vehicle. Both of ours seat 5, which would make it impossible to go anywhere with our family and, say, my parents or his. I say it doesn't matter because we never had more than a 5 seater when I was a kid, and it worked out fine. Mal, I know you were getting a mini-van---what does everyone else do?

As for us, not much going on (thankfully). We went to some consignment shops today and found this toy blender for $2.99:



So that was fun.







I also got some wood play food 20% off, and I'm going to try to bribe Aubs to poop on the potty by giving them to her one at a time when she's successful. Does anyone have a good Etsy shop or other store for reasonably priced wood play food/dishes/etc? BTW, Mal, the Etsy shop you recommended for the wood eggs, they are awesome and get lots of use.

Aubs and I are going to spend next week with my parents, and since my dad is semi-retired these days (and handy) I'm going to try to convince him to build Aubs a play kitchen like this one: http://ana-white.com/2011/07/whitneys-play-kitchen Can't really find anything that I love at this point that doesn't cost a ton, so this would be sort of special.

A little birdy told me the April DDC is up, so I'm going to try not to get completely addicted to it for a couple of months more. Cross your fingers for me.


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## Vegan Princess

Nilla: I can only imagine what it would be like having your mom with you! My mom is similar in a lot of ways. Hugs! I hope she can end up being more of a help than a hindrance in the end! I hope school will be a nice reprieve from everything at home. How exciting!!

Everr: I hope the apartment comes through! Sounds great! So glad you have more daycare options. I am sweating for you over here! LOL!

Starling: Glad to hear you are enjoying this preg, despite puking for so much of it! I hope the pukeys don't come back at the end. Has your tummy popped any more? If so, I want a pic! Are you planning on taking Domperidone again? What is your plan of attack for nursing on this go round?

Kate: We got a toyota highlander last year when DH's car got totalled. Ours is only 5 seats but they sell plenty of SUVs with a 3rd row that works nicely to put a toddler in so you can put a newborn in the normal row in the middle and then the toddler can poke the baby. I love having all the space in the back and there is lots of legroom so that DH can fit in the passenger seat, even with a rear facing carseat behind it. But honestly, if Aubrey is forward facing by the time baby comes, you'll fit fine in most cars. Just might be nice to have trunk space for a double stroller, etc. I love the kitchen. Makenna has a nice white wood one from pottery barn that someone gave us and she uses it ALL the time. In fact she's been cooking a cake and preparing a birthday party for us for a while now, that's how I am on here typing right now. 

Erin: Love the pic! Broccoli thankfully is one thing M will eat.

We've been lucky with the potty here. Just still wearing diapers at night - wakes up dry half the time.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Erin* ... The broccoli looks beautiful! MMMMmmm, broccoli. So good.

*Nilla* ... Ah, to be a part of the sandwich generation, eh? I'm sorry to hear about the family juggling.

*Ever* ... Good luck on the apartment!

*Kate* ... What a SCORE! Jealous!

*Cindy* ... I'm getting a domperidone Rx from the midwife when I'm at term, so that I can fill it and have it ready for when the baby comes. I've also got 8 Lact-Aid systems this time round (my four, and a friend's four that she should be done with by then.) I'm also going to start Mother's Milk tea at 36 weeks. I'm armed and ready this time! I am NOT going to pump. I don't care if I have to supplement from the beginning. No effin' pumping this time around.

AFM: Midwife appointment this morning. Bad news is that I'm already spilling protein in my urine and my bp is climbing.







This is awfully familiar. And I'm measuring ahead by 2-3cm. Bah.

I think I'm heading down the pre-eclampsia road again, only this time SEVEN weeks earlier. Crap. Off to get acupuncture this afternoon, part of the plan to stave off the pre-e.


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## Mal85

Everr: So glad you are having a better day today! I know I've been totally stressing over the daycare situation and it hasn't been nearly as difficult as yours sounds, so I should be thankful!

Kate: We did get a minivan. We got a really good deal on a 2010 Dodge Grand Caravan. I was really pushing for a Honda Odyssey, the mother of all minivans, but it just wasn't in our price range. Owyn loves it and calls it her "new car" every time she gets into it. I think she likes all the windows back there the best, she can finally see! Even DH has grown to love it even though he was pushing for an SUV when we were shopping. There is just so. much. room! We often have the back seats stowed in the floor for now (stow and go is AWESOME!) and it has made shopping trips wonderful!

Also, a good friend of mine used that design to build her daughter a play kitchen last year and they love it! It came out super cute and her daughter plays with it all the time. Do you ever check woot.com? There was a play kitchen on there today for $80, it's a one day deal so I hope you see this if you're interested. It's a KidKraft one. We got Owyn a KidKraft (different style) for her birthday and she plays with it all the time.

AFM: I'm 26.5 weeks now and I swear I'm as huge now as I was when I gave birth to Owyn! Even DH didn't disagree when I told him that last night. I've started getting lots of questions from people at church, at the store, etc. "When are you due again?" "How much longer do you have?" I still have 3 months left people! My mom and sister are so helpful, they keep telling me they really think this baby is going to be much bigger than Owyn was. We also still don't have a name picked out, which is driving me a little nuts. Owyn was named within a few days of us finding out her gender, at 16 weeks. It's also driving family members crazy, my mom has started sending me a daily text message with her name suggestion of the day.









After today, I only have 2 days of daycare left. I feel totally unprepared for the school year and have a feeling I'll be in my classroom many hours a day all week trying to get things in order and ready to go. I am excited though and anxious to get going so I can get into a good routine. I'm sure I'll be totally stressed the first few weeks. I'm the type of person that thrives in routine and predictable schedules, so I just have to get through the beginning craziness!


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: I'm hoping the accupuncture can stave off the pre-e and you get your homebirth this go round!! Did you know it can be the dad's fault a mom gets pre-e? My brother has 5 bio kids w/3 different women and every single one of them developed pre-e and delivered early. Even his wife who had 6 healthy, full-term babies before having one with him, delivered his baby a month early. Crazy. Glad you have a nursing plan worked out - and one that doesn't involve pumping at that! I felt like I missed out on so much being tied to the pump at home last time. Well not really so much haha - what does one really do with a newborn? But I do recall skipping new mom's groups and such bc I had to get home to pump. Blah. Just get some breastmilk lined up in case you need to supp. At least none of this will be a surprise this go round - that should take a lot of the stress and anxiety out of the equation for you - I know it will for me, whenever I manage to get there.


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## justKate

Mal, that is a cute kitchen. But I think my dad needs something to do...









Starling, I don't blame you for not pumping. Did I ever tell you all my milk-donation nightmare story?


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## AKislandgirl

Still soaking up the sunshine in Washington. We have another week to go. Sometimes I feel like its too long and sometimes just right! I'm pretty wiped out though. My sister thinks I may need to add an iron supplement because I'm so tired and have been getting light headed. Last night I felt really sick and out of it. Thank god Fiona is comfortable with the family and just went off to play with them while I rested. In previous visits she hasn't been able to do that. Hoping the iron will help. Ugh.

Knowing that I have only 10 weeks (give or take!) has me a bit freaked out! This baby is coming so soon. She needs a name too! And a dresser... I feel sort of antsy to get home and starting prepping!

Starling: I hope you can stave off the pre-e. Keep us posted. I'm glad that you have some experience and ideas to try to keep it at bay though. It sounds like you have a good plan for nursing too.

I'm a bit nervous about tandem nursing... we'll see how that goes. Fiona doesn't nurse a lot these days (4-5 times a day, usually just going to sleep and waking up) and only for about 5 minutes tops. With no milk I can't really handle more. I think she'll be pretty stoked when my milk comes in though!


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: Tell us the story. Don't think we've heard it.

Sue: I hope the iron helps! Reminds me, I need to start taking it again to help prep my lining. Glad you are both enjoying your trip!

Starling: I forgot - are you still nursing E? Thoughts on how you will tandem, if that is the plan? That was something that confused me when I was thinking about it, when we were TTC before we weaned.

Makenna has been so cute today. It's amazing what a difference a nap makes. LOL. We were driving to a park this afternoon and she said "are you trying to park the car? don't worry mama, it'll be ok". LOL! I wasn't complaining or anything. So cute that she was trying to help me relax! I think she gets that from her daddy. Tomorrow DH is having goodbye drinks w/his co-workers since Friday is his last day. Since he'll be home late, M and I are having a special "mommy & nenna night". Planning on going to the farmer's mkt and to a nearby park with a friend and her daughter (same thing we do most thursdays) but then we are going out to dinner together and getting a milkshake. She is SOOOO excited about our special night. It's funny what calling it that will do. We really arn't doing too much out of the norm. But I figure if daddy gets to be out having fun, so should we. 

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... Yep, still nursing. And my colostrum is in, so E is wanting to nurse more and more, which is rather frustrating. My plan for tandem nursing is that the baby gets first dibs, and then E can take the place of the pump after. I'm prepping her for that. Watch, when I need her to nurse, she probably won't want to! It's a very loose plan. You're mommy and daughter night sounds great!

And *Kate* ... yes, do tell!


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## justKate

As ya'll know, Aubs was in the NICU for 3 weeks for nothing. My milk came in sort of late--like 6 days after the birth, so I was freaking out, seeing LCs, pumping every 2 hours during the day and every 3 hours at night. We were in a hotel in Miami, so I was using the hospital's pumps when I was there and then my PISA that my parents ran out and got when we were at the hospital. So for 3 weeks, I did that. Seemed like I was constantly pumping. DD was being tube fed formula, so we were just storing the milk in those snappies that the hospital gave. During those 3 weeks, I completely filled our full-size freezer in the hotel, so when Aubs was released from Miami Children's Prison we bought coolers to take it all home. At home, I emptied all of the food out of our chest freezer and nearly filled it. I had managed to give myself raging oversupply, so I had to pump in addition to nursing her just to manage the discomfort of being so full. So for six months I am stocking this freezer, occasionally sending this milk to daycare with Aubs. I tried to donate it, but NICUs generally don't want milk if mama has taken meds, and I take 10mg of Paxil. In June 2009, we are moving across country, and there is no way to take all of this milk with us, so I join Milkshare and ask around on here. I sent one 50 qt cooler of milk bags to an MDC mama in CA, and it worked really well. Packed it in dry ice, sent it FedEx overnight, and she paid shipping. Great experience.

Then in May, we plan to drive to Ft. Lauderdale to fly to TX for a few days to look for a house. I meet a mama on here (who will remain unnamed) who says she really wants the rest of my milk for her LO. She lives in Orlando, and her husband works at Ft. Lauderdale airport. The plan is that we will meet at the airport before our flight, and she'll take the rest of the milk. I pack up three more styrafoam coolers of milk bags in dry ice (that alone cost like $60) and we drive up to the airport. This is before I have a smart phone, so I check my email before I leave, and put her cell number in my phone. We make the three hour drive, wait at the airport, and the girl never shows. Not only that, she doesn't answer my calls. Finally, I manage to check my email and learn that her husband's car broke down the night before and she can't meet us. Seriously. No offer to make other arrangements, nothing. Oops! Sorry. That was it. Our flight was leaving in an hour, and we had a car full of milk. This milk was the only thing that had kept me going for those weeks that DD was in the NICU--I mean, I know it wasn't the same milk, but it meant so much to me. I was devastated. DH called around to some hospitals and grocery stores, and was willing to change our flight to try to find a place to store it, but I was so done.... We just left it in the car in the FL heat and caught our flight.

When we got back, we found a dumpster on our way home and threw it all away. I didn't even watch. DH and I didn't talk about it for almost a year--it was awful. I was able to donate another 20 bags or so after we got to TX--that helped a little with the healing. I know it sounds like a silly thing to be traumatized over, because its not like DD had to do without, but it was like the fourth or fifth most traumatic thing I've experienced. We still don't really talk about it. It just makes me so sad. And the thing that's even more sad is that people like that ruin it for others.

FWIW it only cost $44 to ship a big cooler of milk from Key West to that gal in CA, and she said it arrived completely frozen. I was surprised at how well that worked.

So there it is. The reason I won't donate to strangers ever again.


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## Everrgreen

Kate - oh wow, that is horrible - I can totally understand why that would be traumatic. I have things from R's birth that still bother me too. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I can't imagine someone being so oblivious to how much effort someone was going to for them. It really makes me mad.

Oh and that kitchen is adorable! How awesome to have someone who can make it for you!

Cindy - Enjoy your special night! I try and do little things like that with R, although our entire life is just the 2 of us so it never feels much different than any other day lol! I think as he gets older it will be fun to make a big deal out of a special day. And hopefully he will enjoy a fun day with mom and never be too cool for me 

AK - Are you still trying to decide between the same few names? Baby-naming is so much fun! Dresser shopping is fun too, I guess 

Starling - I hope the acupuncture makes a difference for you. I am keeping you in my thoughts! Hopefully you will be able to stay clear of the pre-e this time around *hugs*

I'm so excited for all you pregnant mama's! I love hearing all the updates!

I really think I don't have any milk left but I don't have any way of knowing.. I haven't been able to pump in forever, I don't leak, I don't get engorged (even when I went to the bahamas for 3 days). But R still nurses (we are now down to naptime, bedtime, and sometimes in the morning). I try asking him if he gets milk when he nurses but he says yes to everything so it's hard to tell. I wish there was some way to know for sure!


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## starling&diesel

Oh, *Kate* ... I would've so loved to have taken that milk off your hands! I'm sooooooooooo thankful for mamas who donate milk. I'm so sorry that your experience was horrible. What an ungrateful woman, to not make other arrangements or answer your calls. I could cry to think of that milk going in the dumpster! We are so emotionally connected to our nursing histories, aren't we? I think my WORST experience as a mother so far was my failure to make enough milk for my child. We had donor milk from the milk bank at the children's hospital for four months, and I am so thankful for it!

*Ever* ... E says there is still milk there, and she doesn't always say yes to things. She also tells me when it's 'done.' I am leaking a bit now, but for a long time I didn't get engorged, there was no leaking, and no obvious swallowing. Had I not gotten pregnant, I wonder how long I would've gone on nursing? I think it's so much about comfort for them now. Although E is super sick these days with a wicked summer cold, and I'm sure the nursing makes her feel better, whether emotionally or physically, I'm not sure. She also got her fingers stuck in a nearly closed door yesterday, and could only be comforted by nursing. It is an easy panacea, for sure. I do wish that she'd weaned by now, but no go. How long are you willing to keep nursing?


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: I'm sure E will do the job wayyyy better than a pump! Sounds like a good plan and it's great that she sort of understands.  And I would agree - not being able to nurse fully was the most traumatic mom event for me too! I think I have healed a lot from it though by nursing for an extended period of time and seeing what it meant to Makenna, despite not having a full supply.

Kate: That is just awful! I too relied on donor milk and both of my donors needed to meet me in person and chat for a while before handing over the milk. But it made me feel more comfortable taking their milk too. My little community here has an email newsletter of announcements that goes out every 2 weeks (with 10s of thousands on the list from my city and surrounding ones). It's all announcements that random people want included. Last night's included one from a man who's wife can't fully breastfeed and their family uses donor milk. His post was just urging women who have extra milk not to throw it out and telling them different ways they can get connected with others in the community to donate it. I thought it was touching that the dad took the time to post this. And he wasn't asking for milk for them - just to help other families in general who need milk. One of my mom's group friends also started a community milk sharing program last year for our community. She never had supply problems - just wanted to help others out. I'm grateful for her hard work and hope to utilize her connections if I need milk again. I live in a REALLY crunchy area though. Berkeley was one of the big hippie towns back in the 60s and it hasn't really changed much in that regard.

M woke up asking what we are going to do today while daddy is gone.  Now hopefully she'll let me relax a little longer before we start our day.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

I got the apartment!! Yay!! I'm so excited! I think it will be perfect for us and I'm so happy  And I chose a daycare. Which is a relief but I'm not as excited. It was a hard decision and it has been very emotional for me. I ended up choosing the large daycare with the lady who was indifferent to me. I met her in person this morning for a tour and she was actually very nice so I think she was just having a bad day before. And the centre is large but they have some nice features: a huge property with lots of natural space and playgrounds, a large gym inside, the 'classrooms' were very nice, there is a large cafeteria where all the kids eat together. It has a much more 'school' atmosphere than the other daycares I looked at but I think R will be ok there. His room will have 24 kids (2.5-3.5) and 3 He's pretty social and energetic so I don't think he'll be overwhelmed. And it is the most convenient for driving (distance is the same but the other two are in busier traffic). The one part of it I'm not too crazy about is that it is Christian and we are not. They do bible stories and related crafts on Mondays, the rest of the week is regular stuff. I'm not sure how much religion will be part of the day-to-day stuff but if I find I'm not comfortable with it I can always switch him to a new daycare. I don't know why I'm so worried about it... I'm sure it won't be a big deal. I think it's just the thought of him going to daycare. period. It is hard but I know it needs to be done and I really think he will enjoy it.

I'm still sitting here comparing the daycares and wondering if I made the right choice. I'm going to give myself a headache!


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## Everrgreen

Starling - I would be perfectly fine if R stopped nursing tomorrow but I'm not quite ready to cut him off. He does really seem to need it to help him relax for naps and bedtime (even if he's not getting milk). And with him starting daycare in a month we will be cutting down to just bedtime anyway (because I won't be there for naps!) I think I will keep bedtime nursing until 3 but we'll see.


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## AKislandgirl

Everr: So glad to hear things have finally worked out! What a relief!

Fiona has her first case of the flu!  She was so sad this morning wondering what the heck was going on after she threw up. She Threw up at least 5 times this morning but seems to be over the worst of it and ate some food tonight. She was a total crank as you can imagine (me too!) and kept asking me to take her home. I felt so bad for her. It took me forever to get her to sleep tonight but she's out now and for the first time in 24 hours I'm not holding her or next to her. Poor baby. I hope she wakes up as good as new tomorrow.

I might not be saying this if she weren't sick but I've reached my limit of the family visit... I can't wait for the days of living closer and we can come more frequently and just stay a few days. I'm maxed out today anyway! We head home in 6 days...

By the way, I love the idea of camp outs on our farm! Let's make it happen!  First, we need the farm!


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## Vegan Princess

Hooray Everr! What a huge load off your shoulders!!!! I bet you can relax a bit for the first time in ages. I'm sure the daycare will work out just fine once you are all settled into your new routine.

Sue: I hope Fiona feels better tomorrow and that the flu evades you! At least you have your family around to help. It is SO hard to be away from home while sick though. Makenna got croup really bad and had to go to urgent care while we were visiting inlaws when she was 11 months. I so just wanted to be home! So we flew home and missed our connection and had to stay in a hotel with a sick baby (who thankfully did fine). I think you'll be ready to hunker down and get your nest ready for your baby girl when you get home. Perhaps that is part of your feelings too?

We had a lot of fun at dinner. I've had a lot of fun the past few days being delighted by all Makenna has to say to me lately. 

I've been mentally consumed by infertility stuff. I have my ultrasound on Tuesday to see what kind of eggies are growing and then I think my first IUI will be next Friday or somewhere around then. Eeck!

Have a great weekend everyone!

Cindy


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## justKate

Everr, what a relief! So glad everything is falling in to place for you. When will you move? Not to bring up bad stuff, but how are things going with the ex? Hopefully you're getting some support for R, even if he's not in contact.

Sue, poor Fiona! Vomiting babies are so distressing to me. Thankfully, we haven't had much sickness around here since I stopped working and Aubs stopped going to daycare. Hmm.... Hopefully she got it all out of her system that first year. Seemed like she had a new bug every other week back then.

Cindy, I understand how infertility could be all-consuming. I thought about nothing else while TTC Aubs, even though it was only a short time. I know they said you had low ovarian reserve--is there any explanation for why? Is it genetic? Its just so hard not having clear answers....







When is your IUI scheduled? I'm hoping there's still a chance for you to join the April DDC!

Busy weekend here. It's Coast Guard Day, so we're going to the base for a petting zoo, rides, food, and face painting. Then back home to pack for a visit to my parents for a week. DH has a training course on the other side of the state, so Aubs and I are going to spend the week with my family. Its going to be hard not telling them about being pg, but I'm not ready yet...only 5 weeks. The hardest part will be not oogling baby stuff in front of my mom....


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: I have no idea why I have this! It's frustrating. The one thing that could have been an explanation was if I was a carrier for Fragile X. Carriers seem to develop this commonly. But I am NOT, thank god! So now I have no idea why. My mom was fertile mrytle. She got pregnant on the first try every time! But she also did have all of us by the time she was 29. She had my sister at 21. So we don't know for sure that she woulnd't have had this. However she was not in menopause yet by age 48 when she got breast cancer (and the meds put her into menopause) so I think she was on a normal time schedule. My sister had major fertility issues and used a surrogate for all 3 of her kids...but oddly enough, her issues are 100% different than mine! It's frustrating that no one seems to know answers about this 100%. You read one thing and hear a conflicting thing from your dr, etc. So that's why I'm trying to read so much and figure out what really has worked for other women in my shoes - in case my dr doesn't seem to know these things. Though I do feel somewhat comforted by my doc. He is one of the leading infertility researchers at one of the top med schools in the country. HOW ARE YOU FEELING KATE? Any morning sickness yet? Did you have it last time?

Have a great weekend everyone!

Cindy


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## justKate

Cindy, that is so strange. Maybe something on your dad's side that affected you and your sister? From what I remember, you're not "old".... So strange. And so unfair.

I'm actually feeling great, knock on wood. A couple of bouts of afternoon nausea, but nothing major. My appetite has been up and down, and I've actually lost like 5 lbs in the last month, but I can definitely afford it. Not sure if I mentioned it before, but my current "pre pregnant" today figure looks about the same as my 13 weeks-pg-with-Aubrey figure. So I'm going to try not to gain 45 lbs. this time!

I'm going to be expecting more regular pg updates in the coming weeks--I can't believe how close you all are getting (Sue, Mal, Starling)!

Now back to packing for Mom's....


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## Everrgreen

Thanks everyone! I am excited and relieved  I move in on August 28th - 3 weeks!! I need to start packing!

Kate - Not much new with the ex. The child support should start any day now. It took a while to get all the paperwork done for that but it will come right off his paycheck and into my bank account -and he also owes arrears to the government to help cover the government assistance I've been receiving. Ex took R for the day in July (at my request) and they actually had a really great day together. He had packed a cooler full of healthy snacks and juice boxes they did a ton of fun things together. R was so excited about it and for a few days kept asking to see daddy again. I told ex that he could take him again anytime and ex said he couldn't wait to take him again.. That was 3 weeks ago and I haven't heard from him since. And after we move we will be even further away than we are now (4 hours versus 2 hours). When I saw him in July he said he wanted to get a job transfer and move closer to us but I don't think he actually will.

Cindy - I hope everything goes perfectly for your IUI. I can't imagine how frustrating this must be for you to have no answers as to why. It took me a long time to conceive R and that was such a difficult experience, looking back though it is easy to be at peace with how long it took - knowing now that at the end of it all I got R and he is amazing and I can't imagine having it any other way. I guess I look at it as things happening the way they do for a reason. I'm sorry you are having to go through all of this though and I'm keeping you in my thoughts and sending you lots of baby dust 

AK - I hope Fiona is feeling better and you managed to stay in the clear! R has had a few tummy bugs and while he does get upset when he's throwing up he also is very matter-of-fact about it: he tells me his tummy is sick and he needs a towel and then afterwards tells me he feels better now. I hope he doesn't have too many new illnesses once he starts daycare!


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## Mal85

Everr: So happy things have fallen into place for you! I'm sure it will be great being near family and having your mom around... I'm sure R will love it too! Your ex sounds a lot like my sister's ex. He does see their daughter on a fairly regular basis, although he lives in NY and she lives in the midwest... so seeing her regularly still isn't that much. He sees her a few weeks over the summer and a few holidays throughout the year. Although now that she is 12 years old, her schedule has gotten busier and he doesn't really make the effort to come here and see her instead of taking her there, so they haven't seen each other as much lately. He's been saying for the last 6 years that he wants to get a job transfer and move closer to her. In his line of work (and how far up the ladder he is), he could easily do that. He's never remarried or had anymore children, so there's really nothing keeping him from doing it, he just never has. Anyway... it's just a sad situation and I hate to see my niece go through it. R is so lucky to have a mama like you!

Cindy: Keeping my fingers crossed that the IUI goes well! Looking forward to a happy update 

Sue: I hope Fiona is feeling better. There is nothing worse than being sick when you're away from home. And I hope you get a second wind and enjoy the rest of your vacation. Although, I do agree, it's so much better to just live nearby and get short visits at any time. All of our family is local and while it can annoy me at times (since my parents and my ILs both live, literally, within a couple of blocks from us), it's nice to always be able to go home at the end of a visit.

No big pregnancy updates for us. I'm 27 weeks today and feeling huge. My glucose test came back good, but I am mildly anemic. I've been trying to eat more meat for the iron, I really haven't been eating much meat. It just hasn't been the most appetizing thing for me. But I'm going that route first. I've taken iron supplements before and they made me badly constipated, so I'm hoping to avoid that if I can.

I start my new job tomorrow! We have faculty meetings all week and I get to work on my classroom as well. I'm really anxious to get in my classroom and see what I have to work with. Plus, I have about a bazillion questions with no answers and can't wait to get in there and talk to people to find out what to expect! One big one is still how my maternity leave is going to go or if I'm even going to get any.

As for Owyn... she's had diarrhea all weekend. Not sure why. She seems to feel okay, although she hasn't had much appetite. She does have some molars coming in, so I'm hoping that's all it is. I really can't afford for her to get sick the week I start working! She'll be spending the next two days with my mom while I'm working and she's very excited about that. We put away all the daycare stuff we had in the house and my living room finally looks like a living room again! Owyn was a little sad about putting the things away and kept telling me I couldn't put it away because the babies need it. She still doesn't quite understand that the daycare kids aren't coming back and I'm a little sad for her. One of my girls has been with us since her and Owyn were newborn babies, so they are really like sisters. Her mom and I have already discussed getting them together for play dates, I just know they will miss each other like crazy!


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## Thursday Girl

I hope the sick little girls feel better, it is super sad when they are sick.

Everr, so happy things worked out.

Starling, I firmly believe that sleep schedules near the end of pregnancy help prepare us for sleep when the baby is born. with my first and third I could hardly sleep and they were up more, with my second I slept well and she was a great sleeper.

I have the beginning of pregnancy seep problem. my brain is so busy at night I sleep horribly. I am then exhausted during the day, it made the road trip kind of hard because I was so tired and at all the places we were at it was a LOT of walking. After the 2nd day in colonial Williamsburg, my ankles, achilles tendons and hips hurt from all the walking (and wearing Junes in the pouch therefor having one hip jutted out the whole time). Not to mention the mild nausea was not a great mix with lots of driving.

NIlla, sorry about all that it sounds so tough. My mom is like that and I am not looking forward to when she one day moves in with us.

as for CARS, we had a 5 seater until shortly after Junes (#3) was born. we could just fit the 3 girls in the back when I kept Jewel (who was almost 6) in her booster, which I didn't like. so as soon as the income tax return came in we bought a van. It has been nice being able to take an extra kid or adult, but now with the new baby coming and large car seats I don't think we will be able to fit anyone besides our family...unless they smoosh between 2 carseats or we pull out the big seats and put the 2 older girls in boosters. We have boosters for them but 5 point harness is so much safer.

Cindy- I am crossing my fingers for you!


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## Thursday Girl

oh, and my sister is not pregnant and won't be tryign again until after she gets married...they aren't engaged yet.


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## Vegan Princess

Courtney: Welcome back! I barely slept while I was pregnant last time - b/w the hormones and the worry. It's awful! I hope you enjoyed the trip otherwise. Sorry about your sister. That would have been so fun!

Hope the sickies are well again!

I've got 2 other littles coming over to watch for 4 hours this morning. Off to finish my breakfast before they get here. Back later.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Hi Mamas,

Fiona is better thank goodness. That was no fun! Yesterday my mom and I took her to the zoo which she loved. She cried in the car the whole way there though which was tough. (1 hour!) My Kodiak girl is not used to long car rides. She is really ready to be home and so am I. Today should be a quiet day at my moms house because the cousins are all gone for the day. That will be good for both of us and hopefully we can get a good nap in.

I'm 31 weeks now and can't believe it. I have a prenatal a few days after I get home and am anxious for her to check my iron levels. I'm still feeling tired and light headed from time to time.

I"ve got to run now. Sorry for no personals. I'll be more on top of things after we are home and rested.


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Yeah I doubt ex will ever move to where we are. He is still living with the girl from the affair and apparently she told his family that they would never leave that town because that's where her family is. Apparently her being near her parents trumps ex being near his son, but whatever. It's his loss and we are doing just fine without him. And where we are moving to we have my mom and lots of other extended family in town plus my dad, brother, and ex's family an hour away. It will be nice for R to have so much family around 

How's the new job going?? I hope Owyn was feeling better when you started.

Courtney - I hope the first trimester isn't beating you up too badly, especially with 3 kids keeping you busy! Maybe they are keeping each other busy and letting you cat-nap?

Cindy - Is tomorrow your IUI?? I hope everything is going well!

I've had a busy week of packing, packing, and more packing.. And I'm still not done! I've run out of boxes though so a friend is gathering some from work for me. Tomorrow we leave to visit my dad for a few days which will be busy - my grandma turns 99 tomorrow (!!) so there is a big party for her tomorrow night, then I'm seeing a friend Saturday, and then my ex's family Sunday, then I'll probably hang around for a couple more days to visit with my dad. After that I'm going to my mom's for a few days and leaving R with her for next weekend so I can go to a cottage with a bunch of friends. BUSY!! And *then* after that I come back home to finish the packing before my move!

I have a really cool story about my grandma too: when her mother was pregnant with her (back in 1912) they were booked on the Titanic to immigrate to Canada from England. But for whatever reason they ended up switching to a different ship (my grandma thinks it was a problem with over-booking). She still has the original ticket which has Titanic scratched out and the other ship listed.


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## mckittre

We've been mostly off-line here for the past week, so I'm just catching up now.

Everr- glad you got the apartment and daycare straightened out, I'm sure R will be happy there. Good luck with the move.

Cindy - crossing fingers that the IUI goes well

I can't believe some of you pregnant ones are getting so close! And I can't believe my little baby is almost crawling already.

We've been spending the last week exploring the area within an 1/8 mile radius of home - which seems like a fairly bizarre project, but has actually been really fun. Katmai had a blast playing in the squirrel castles and building forts in little patches of woods, we picked gallons and gallons of blueberries and salmonberries and currants, learned a bunch of new plants, and went to a whole lot of neat little places I've never been before. Katmai's just really starting to get into pretend games, which is fun. Now I have a bunch of work to catch up on, and we need to start cranking on getting ready for our expedition in a month. I'm sure it'll be great, but right now I'm wondering why on earth I thought I should take two small children to live on a glacier for 2 months!


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## AKislandgirl

I'm home! It feels so good to be here. Fiona was so excited to get here and be with her Papa. In the car on the way home from the airport she said, "Mama you go to yoga and I'll stay with Papa!" She wanted to get rid of me so she could have Papa all to herself. She was thrilled to see her animals and ran right away to pick up her favorite chicken and cuddle her dogs. It was fun to watch! She also slept all night in her own bed (next to ours in our bedroom) so I didn't wake up to toddler feet in my face!  I'm also thinking it may just be worth the airline fees for extra luggage to pack my favorite pillow while traveling... holy cow it felt good to sleep with that last night! Ha!

Now we can settle in to life at home and wait for this baby... about 8 weeks to go! Where did the time go?! To all the expecting (or soon to be expecting!) Mama's I just got a fantastic book for helping prepare kids for an upcoming labor and birth. We plan to labor at home for as long as possible and then depending on time of day and her mood move to the hospital with Fiona. My mom will be in charge of her so if she's not feeling it they can stay home or wander the halls... Anyway I want her to have some idea in mind of what is going to happen. I got Hello Baby by Jenni Overend. It is great. It describes a home birth but I think it will be great for our family too. Just wanted to share! 

Cindy: Sending good vibes your way Mama!







I hope this is it! I read your post about not knowing the "why" of this infertility business. I'm in the same boat... "unexplained infertility". But here's proof that it doesn't matter. I have total faith that you will be pregnant again soon!

McKittre: Love the photos! They sure do look alike don't they?! What a great life they have. You guys will be fine living on the glacier I'm sure. You will settle into a new normal! I can't wait to hear all about it! You inspire me Mama!


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## Vegan Princess

Erin: Wow, you're going to live on a glacier for 2 months? Your life is sooo exciting! I have no doubt you will make it work beautifully, even with 2 kids along.

Sue: Welcome home! Feels so good, huh? I can't believe you only have 8 weeks left! Starling too!

Everr: That is a cool story. My dad was booked on the 9/11 flight that crashed in a field when the passengers took over! He finished his work early and caught a different flight to see my sister instead of flying to SF. I got chills even writing about it just now. Good luck with the packing! I hate packing - and unpacking!! Unpacking always seems to take so much longer.

So I had my IUI on Wednesday. I'm not sure we got the timing right. I had my ultrasound on tuesday and they said to take my trigger shot that night and do IUI on thursday. But before my shot I took an OPK and it was almost positive - so they had me do it on Wed instead. I didn't feel O clearly this month like I usually do - so I think I might not have O'd until Thursday. I'm hoping the swimmers didn't die. I read they don't live as long after they've been washed for IUI. Also DH's count went down even more. So I'm not very hopeful. My clinic told me to expect to do a few cycles anyway - not to expect it to work this month. The good news is, my body did respond how it should to the meds and made two follices. So perhaps I won't end up having to do the expensive injectible drugs. We'll see.

Makenna is in the process of having an OCD meltdown about cat hair on her felt ice cream cone. She never cared until this morning. I've lint rolled it and picked at it and it's pretty clean but she is spazzing out. Oy vey. Once I get it pretty good she throws it on the cat on my lap in protest. She does seem to be enjoying lint rolling herself though.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

early pregnancy is exhausting, but I just got floradix iron today to try and help. the kids mostly play with each other....and watch too much tv







. They actually do well in the tv is never turned on, but my 8 year old keeps turning it on while I'm napping or something. TV is totally weird that if they never get it they are fine, but once they start watching they act like buttheads when we turn it off. Must do something about it.

Everr, that is such a cool story about your grandma!! Glad she caught a different boat 

2 months on a glacier!! that is super cool, I so want our life to be more adventurous.

Cindy I am crossing my fingers for you anyway. I know this will happen now or soon, it will happen.

Sue, we have Jenni's my new baby book and it is super cute. (man I hope I didn't give it away with the rest of the baby stuff)


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## Blessed_Mom

Hi mamas,

Thursday Girl's post reminds me - how much TV do your LOs watch on any given day (or in a week)? I am trying to get some perspective - so please help me


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## Vegan Princess

Blessedmom: I usually put the tv on in the morning while she eats or finishes picking at breakfast and that is the time I check emails, possibly do some cleaning around the house and/or get showered/dressed. She'll sit and watch for a bit uninterupted and then she goes off and does her thing with it on in the background. I'd say it's on anywhere from 30 minutes to and hour per day. I try not to exceed an hour. But sometimes there are days I just cannot get anything done without it. Showers probably would never happen without it. Although I've started turning the cold water on in the sink and letting her stand on her stepstool and play while I shower. But even that isn't so cool - she turned on the hot water the other day and then fell off her (really short) step stool. We try to just watch videos I get from the library that are usually educational - signing time or hooked on phonics, etc. Sometimes elmo and very rarely dora. And sometimes the shows on PBS.

Makenna actually asked to go to bed an hour early today. I took her to a HUGE play space. We spent hours there. Then she played hard with her daddy pretty soon after we got home. Needless to say, she's a bit of a melted down mess.

Are your kids sticklers about order or who is supposed to do what right now? If DH gets M out of the bathtub she will wail and wial until I put her back in and take her out again. And she has some wierd order of how she has to hand the dentist mirror to DH after he finishes brushing her teeth - or she'll freak out and make him rebrush her teeth so she can hand it to him afterwards. It's a bit OCD. I'm wondering if it's her age or what? (BTW, we got a dentist mask and mirror from when we visited the dentist and as long as we use them and pretend to be a dentist, M will let us brush her teeth without problems)

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Mckittre* ... I love the pictures of your kids. I so wish we had more nature in our lives and didn't 'need' to live in a city. Time will tell if we can get out of here and back up into the mountains. I miss it SO much!

*Sue* ... Glad that your back safe and sound. I will say that I worried about you a little on your big trip. I know that I wouldn't have had the energy, so good on you for hanging in there and having one last big hurrah before hunkering down to finish knitting your baby and preparing for your babymoon. So sweet that F was so excited to see her papa!

*Ever* ... The rest of your months sounds absolutely exhausting! Be sure to get lots of sleep and keep hydrated!

*Cindy* ... Good luck with the IUI! The two week wait begins!

E has a lot of OCD tendencies about order and objects and how things should be done. Yes, I think it's largely developmental at this point, but I know that for E it does go beyond that. We try to encourage switching things up and keeping our routine as loose as possible, so that she maintains a good balance of knowing what to expect, but also rolling with change. It's a Big Deal in our house, and we both recognize that E is very particular, moreso than her peers.

*courtney* ... Too bad that your sis isn't pregnant. That would've been fun! How's the search for the farm going?

*mal* ... I cannot believe that you are 27 weeks! Crazy! Hope poor Owyn is feeling better?

*blessedmom* ... We don't do much tv here. I can't remember the last time it was on, really. Dd does get about twenty minutes of Reading Eggs computer program while DP gets dinner together some days. During the winter, when I was newly pregnant and barfing all the time, she watched more. Then, it was Mary Poppins and Winnie the Pooh, mostly.

*AFM*: E had a terrible nightmare the other night. She woke up screaming about bees being in the bed with us. She clambered up into my arms and demanded that I get out of bed and that dp turn on the light so that she could inspect the linens and make sure that there were no bees. She was so upset that it took a few stories and a long bit of nursing to get her back to sleep.

The other day she sat on the grass and was covered in ants, and she freaked out about that too, and now is paranoid that every tiny speck of black is an ant. We keep our reactions really low key, but her reactions are huge. She's quite concerned about insects and such, while at the same time she loves watching bugs and learning about them. Confusing.


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## Mal85

Hey ladies, I finally have a minute to catch my breath from this busy week!

Sue, Welcome home!! As great as it is to see family, there's nothing sweeter than coming home to your own bed after a long trip! I can't believe you only have 8 weeks left! Any names decided on yet? We're still struggling with that here and have actually dropped the topic the last couple of weeks. I just got so tired of seeing names, I feel like I've seen them all already and nothing works! My mom has taken to sending me a daily text message with her name suggestion of the day, she is very concerned about my poor nameless baby, haha!

Everr, just reading about your upcoming month has me needing a nap! Have fun and enjoy all your visits, I know you'll be busy once school starts.

Blessedmom: Owyn watches about a movie per day, I'd say. She doesn't always pay attention to it for more than 30 minutes or so, but wants it on while she's playing. I turn on PBS when she first lays down for her nap and she watches that for about 15-20 minutes while she settles down. She won't fall asleep with it on though, so I turn it off once I know she's sleepy.

Cindy,







I'll be sending lots of baby dust your way over the next couple of weeks, can't wait to hear the results!

As for us, I started work this week and WOW I have been sooooo exhausted. Owyn has handled it okay considering this is totally out of her realm of normal. She hasn't had any meltdowns about me leaving when I take her to the baby sitter, but she has had some meltdowns before we leave the house. She isn't used to needing to get dressed and eat breakfast and get out the door by a certain time and that has really thrown her off. Yesterday, I had her with me for the first time this week. I had some shopping to do for my classroom and took her with me, she kept asking to go home the whole time we were out. I guess she has missed her time at home with me this week.

Hopefully, my days won't be as long now that I have my classroom mostly put together. I had a moment of panic on my first day when I walked into my room and it was practically empty! I had very little furniture and no toys or materials to speak of! So, all week I have been making the rounds to thrift stores, family members and teacher supply stores trying to get everything I need on a very tight budget. Somehow I have pulled it off and the room is almost ready, I just have to decorate one more bulletin board and pick up the classroom calendar I ordered. I haven't even had a moment to start on my lesson planning, but luckily that's something that doesn't take much when it comes to 3 year olds. School starts on Wednesday and I'm starting to get pretty excited!

There's still no word on maternity leave, the board meets next Tuesday and will hopefully be making a decision. I asked the principal if he had heard anything and he said it sounded like all they'd be able to offer me was my paid sick leave since I'm part time, which didn't really surprise me. I am welcome to take more time off, but it won't be paid. I can't afford to go without getting paid though. However, I read over my staff handbook really closely to see if there were any loopholes and there was actually a section that defined what a full time employee is in terms of benefits. According to their definition, I should be considered full time and not part time. So, I showed that to the principal and he said that could make a big difference for me. So he was going to show it to the board at the meeting next week. I'm really hoping that changes their perspective a little!!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Good luck with the benefits! Our country makes me so mad, I could scream!!! So jealous of all you Canadians and your 15 months of leave! Also, I wanted to tell you that when my friend first put her little girl in daycare 2 days/week, she could not get her daughter to leave the house on the days in between. She just wanted to be home, playing with her own toys. So I think it's probably a normal reaction to being out of the house a lot and in a new environment.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

starling, all moving plans on hold. I think the plan is still to move after babe is born but it turns out we won't be able to sell our house...which we sort of expected. The market is terrible and won't improve for a couple of years at least. We do have the advantage over others our age since our house was bought in 1997 before the bubble began to grow. BUT a few things affect our ability to sell.

1) Hubs mom signed the house over to us when we were pregnant with #1. At the time we could have sold the house for $200+ and she wanted $60,000, at that pint she hadn't paid quite that much into it. We took over the mortgage and Hubs was added to the deed. She did this to keep us in Florida...very succesfully, the house is the only reason we are still here.

2) The house needs A LOT of work, I told you about the rotting floor etc, well the whole back room has to be redone. the 2 side walls (we did the back wall wile pregnant with June), the floor, the beams under the floor and part of the roof. ON top of that the whole house has to be refloored, the front door and flanking windows need to be replaced, 2 of the large bungalow style windows in the living room need to be replaced, and part of the front wall in our bedroom, along with pretty much all of the siding on the house.So it's a huge project and we have run out of money and Hubs works all the time. so for the moment half the floor in the back room is just ply wood layed on top of the floor. so before we do anything we have to fix the house.

3) once we fix up the house we MIGHT be able to sell it and make about $30,000. Well Chris told his mom we were thinking of moving to Washington (Chris's dad lives there and his mom would love nothing more then to deprive him of Chris, she doesn't care about the kids and I though). So Chris told her we were thinking of moving THEN asked how much we'd have to pay her if we sold the house, amazing of all amazingness she wants $30,000. I Have no doubt as the market fluctuates the amount she wants will change as long as we are wanting to move out of state.

4) so we are thinking of renting it out and being able to use that as income to improve our chances of getting a loan. we also have to fix up the house and build up credit. I am not really sure how it is all possible but I sure as heck hope we can move shortly after baby is born.

TV, I hate to share how much they have been watching. The past couple of days the older girls have been watching hours and hours. It's horrible.The baby doesn't watch as much, but still way more then I'd like. It is hot as crap out, the heat makes me nasueas and I don't really blame them for not wanting to go outside. inthe 2 days I tried to limit TV they completely destroyed the house. at one point i heard them running, things crashing and my oldest scream "watch out for the tornado!!" Hubs was out of town working. he came home and helped clean up some this morning, thank god because i have been so tired.

During the school year they are only allowed to watch on weekends and then for an hour only. and not every sat and sun. Then sometimes we will do a family movie night too which is way awesome.

Mal, that's awesome that the principal was so open.


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## AKislandgirl

Mal: Weird that the classroom was so bare! I'm sure it was fun getting it all put together though. I sure hope the board can give you some leave!

Courtney: Sounds like a huge project! Good luck!

Cindy: Re order, yes! It's important who does certain things especially. She is also very adamant about doing a lot of things herself and will redo something if we do it anyway. She is very persistent about these things. Her reactions are pretty intense too. We are working with her to just tell us in nice words when she wants something done by a particular person or if she wants them done herself. She responds way better to DH then to me about most of this though. I get a lot of shrieking! Lucky me.

No names here! We still are working through the same several names. We are having the hardest time picking middle names. I can't get Violet out of my head despite the threat of Vi as a nickname. Sometimes I think it doesn't matter since we won't ever use it ourselves. I don't know. Fiona's name is so Irish that we wonder if its weird not having an Irish middle name at least. DH likes Violet Grace or Sylvia Grace. I like both of those and I like Maeve as a middle name. We both like Hazel still too. It's hard! I knew that I wanted Fiona from very early on so this is really bugging me!


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## starling&diesel

Oh, *Sue* ... I hear you on the name front. We do have our frontrunner (Hawksely Sollis) but I cannot shake the knowledge of a slightly older boy (11 months old) who is also called Hawksley. I told her waaaay back when I was 8 weeks pregnant that Hawksley was one of our top picks, but it's not sitting well with us right now. Not sure why.

We're starting to lean towards Severin Hawksley, or Severin Sollis, with the intention to call him Sev for short. Shiloh, Felix and Levi are also still on the list. So is Raven.

I think we'll just need to meet the little guy before we can discover his name!

*Courtney* ... I notice the same thing with E. If she gets a smidgeon of tv, she starts to want it all the time. But if a day or two goes by with no tv, she never even thinks to ask for it. And don't feel back about them watching tonnes right now. It's a tool that you're putting to use! Early pregnancy does that to us, doesn't it? E watched WAY more than I was happy with when I was flat out on the couch with a puke bucket at my side. And as for your house ... it's always harder than it looks, isn't it

*Mal* ... Exciting that you're getting your room all set up! It'll be exciting to meet all your kids and get into a rhythm with them as a class. Glad to hear Owyn is doing well with the childcare, all things considered. Good luck with your mat leave!

*Cindy* ... Subsidized leave IS a beautiful thing! I wish you women had it in the states too. I screwed up my application a bit and will be 'only' getting 13 months. I was moaning and groaning about it, but when I remind myself of how little paid time off you mamas get, I should just be thankful. I am appealing the decision, though, because Employment Insurance is in the wrong on this one. They said that I 'planned' to leave when I did, rather than needing to leave based on medical necessity. Argh. No matter. I'll go back when the baby is over a year, paid or not.


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## mckittre

Cindy: About order, etc... Katmai doesn't get too worked up about those things usually, but does really like knowing what goes where, what happens when, who does what, etc... I think it must be the age. And he does get upset if I don't get up with him in the morning, or if dad doesn't lay down with him at night. So I almost never get to sleep in.

Mal: Glad you're all set up - how many kids will you have in the room?

Courtney: That house sounds like a huge project. I hope you are able to wiggle out from it and move where you want to!

TV: No TV here. The only TV option is Netflix or YouTube on the laptops, and since the time when we most want Katmai to leave us alone is when we're trying to work on the laptops, it wouldn't particularly help us out to have him watch something. But he's actually really good at playing by himself, and getting better at it all the time, so we're lucky. Even Lituya is pretty good at playing with minimal intervention. Or maybe we're just good at ignoring our kids. 

Pottying: We are so stuck here. He's been out of diapers during the day for months, but was never great about it, and is only getting worse. If I could keep him naked all the time, he'd be fine. Since I can't, he wets his pants all the time, and either tries to deny it or just cheerfully tells us he peed in his pants. I'm trying to make him change out of his own wet pants and get his own new ones now in the hopes that he'll eventually get tired of that, but am about an inch away from giving up and going back to diapers. And I really really don't want to take twice as many diapers for a two month expedition.


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## Thursday Girl

My oldest, Jewel, used to be very particular about how something was done and she would freak out if it wasn't done the way she wanted or not done by the person she wanted. If she was looking at a book and it was time to go she would HAVE to flip through every page even if she didn't look at the pictures. She has relaxed on all of that (she is 8 now). She can go with the flow more although when she reads she does have trouble leaving a book at a point she doesn't deem appropriate and I have on occasion seen her flip through a picture type book to hit every page, but with the chapter books she reads she just needs to get to the end of a chapter.

Names- our first was named before she was born, the other 2 we had a list and chose the one that fit her when she was born.

Sue I just have to say again I LOVE Hazel!!!


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## AKislandgirl

Starling: Grr to someone using your name! I still love it but totally get why it would be hard to use it now. I hope you find a solution you both love! I still ove the story of your dream and would have a hard time letting go of Sollis if it were me!

McKittre: I assume you have to hand wash laundry while on your expedition, right? I'd think that washing loads of peed on pants and laundry would be a real pain. Overall wouldn't you bring less with oyou if you brought diapers then if you brought several days worth of pants... I'm imagining he's go through at the very least 3-4 pairs with some chances for nakey time in there. That would be tough. The last week of our trip Fiona had completely given up on using the potty and would shriek loudly if I tried to take her so I had her in cloth pullups. Now that we are home we are doing a bit better but I'm with you- I want this to be over already! I can't wait until she is just using the potty without accidents, prompts, etc...


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## starling&diesel

I finally have something to contribute on the pottying discussion!

E has decided to use the potty spontaneously over the last few days!

Whoo hoo!

I think peer pressure was getting to her. One of the women in the co-op runs a little daycare, and we're often in the playground with them, and they are all wearing underwear now and using the potty all the time. I think E noticed.

Today's success so far: potty upon wake-up, potty at the park bathroom, potty at the library bathroom, potty after lunch (poo too!!!) ... and now she's down for her nap in a diaper.

Very exciting.

Sort of.

I had kind of resigned myself to tackling the whole potty thing AFTER the baby came, and had decided that that would be more straightforward. Ah, well. She's doing it on her own on her own time, so I'm certainly not going to stop her. I'm supposing all of us with littles on the way will have a whole 'nother discussion about potty regression when the littles arrive. Right?

*Sue*, what kind of pull-ups are you using? We've tried kushies and bummies ones and they don't fit E very well and aren't easy to pull down. I was thinking of just taking the liner out of her cloth diapers and using that. Or fastening her dipes on way looser, so she can wrangle them up and down on her own.


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## justKate

Starling, hooray for potty successes! I agree about it being hard to use your name knowing someone else has it. But it doesn't make it less your name if you do use it. I actually saw a girl on one of Aubs' Curious George programs with your DD's name--at the end where the elementary aged kids do little science experiments. That was surprising, because its not a name I'd ever heard before. Re. cloth pullups, I ordered a happy heiny trainer, and it didn't work for us at all. it's stuff-able, but not really any different from a cover. Plus it's a little big. If you want it, I'll give it to you. (Or if anyone else wants it, but Starling has first dibs...) It's traffic cone orange.

Courtney, I like the idea of having a couple of names to choose from after meeting the new baby. Not sure DH would go for that--it would seem too disorganized to him. We haven't really talked about names yet (of course it's way early), but if this one is a girl, her middle name will be Jean, and DH thinks he has a boy name picked. We'll see.

Mal, that is weird about the classroom being bare. Maybe the last teacher bought stuff for the room and then took it all with her? Sort of crappy that they put you in that position. Glad that its all coming together though. I think you're pretty amazing for doing all that with a little one on board.

Oops, gotta run and make dinner before DH gets home and realizes I haven't done anything all day!


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: Hooray!!! My guess is that since she waited until she was good and ready, she will just take the ball and run with it. We didn't use trainers. Just straight to panties. It was fine. I did buy some cloth pullups for at night but they are bulky (bulkier than her diapers) and she won't wear them. They are basically a stuffable diaper that pulls up and down or can snap on the sides. So we still do diapers at night. She's stopped asking to go in the middle of the night but does still ocassionally wake up dry - so not much progress at night. As for training before baby - you'd be surprised what 2 months can do in potty training land! It's hard for me to believe M only trained 3 months ago bc potty is mostly a non issue now. She tells us when she needs to go, she pulls her pants down and she can mostly pull them up. In fact she always says "I'm a big girl now bc I can put my panties on all by myself". So she may be fully trained by the time the baby comes. And not every child regresses when new baby comes.

Thanks for the input about order, etc. It makes DH feel better to know she's not showing early signs of OCD. LOL.

Oh man I wish M would grasp the idea of quiet time! Naps are def a thing of the past and quiet time is NOT sinking in.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Training Pants: We have some Imse Vimse training pants. They feel and look like underwear but have a hidden PUL layer. I like them a lot for going out of the house. F can pull them up and down on her own. We also have some of these from etsy. Not my favorite but they work and offer mega protection (airplane rides!) when needed. We bought them for nights but tend to just use a diaper most nights anyway. We have 3 pairs of each and otherwise she's naked or in gerber underwear.

Fiona is almost always dry when she wakes up but she isn't always ready to get undressed and sit on the potty so I would say she is night trained but not early morning trained! I just have to remind myself that someday she'll be there all the way. Today she walked out of music class so I went after her. She was around the corner in the bathroom and said she had to go potty! Hooray for getting back on track!  And music is her favorite thing so to leave class to take herself to the bathroom is awesome!


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## Mal85

Starling: Yay for E!! She definitely seems like a kid who has to do things in her own time, so now that she's made the jump she may be very easy to potty train, like Cindy said. Owyn potty trained very quickly from the time she decided to do it. We have had some spells of regression and there are times she either waits too long or doesn't want to stop what she's doing to go, but she does know how and has bladder control for the most part. Today has been a day of accidents, she peed her pants 3 times.







I chalk it up to a day with any toddler. Toddlers are just going to have bad potty days, heck even preschoolers have bad potty days. Big kids get better on the potty front, right?? I do expect some regression when the baby comes, but have no intentions of putting her back in diapers. I will not go backwards, I refuse! She is sleeping in a Pull Up at night and usually wakes up dry in the morning, but she is slow to fully wake up and won't sit on the toilet until she's been awake for a while. So, her first pee of the day is usually in her Pull Up. That's just not an issue I've been ready to tackle yet.

I'm a little nervous this week. School starts on Wednesday and I feel like all my little details are still so up in the air. I know everything will come together once the year gets underway, but I don't like feeling unprepared. And really, I need to give myself some credit.. I've got lessons plans all typed up through the rest of this month and the whole month of September. The only things I haven't planned yet are our Music and Movement lessons, which are only once a week (I have one planned for this week, but not any further in advance). I'm also trading classes with the other preschool teacher for 25 minutes a day. It's a Lutheran school and I'm Catholic, so they have a Lutheran teacher coming to my class to teach their religion portion of the day and I'll be doing a lesson with her class while she's with mine. I was planning on doing an Activity time with her class while I'm in there and getting excited about planning some fun projects with the kids. Then, today she informed me that she wants me to teach Social Studies. Come on? Social studies with 4 and 5 year olds? I'm not excited and putting off the planning because I'm not quite sure how she wants me to do it. I'm supposed to get my plans from her curriculum, but she'll be teaching them on the two days a week I'm not there and I don't want to overlap plans and do two of the same lessons, etc, etc... So, I'm thinking we need to sit down together and look at it. I'm hoping we have time to do that tomorrow, since school starts the next day!

Also, some things are frustrating me with the way payments are being made. I was supposed to get paid today and no one gave me my W-4 to fill out until Saturday morning (I actually had to go in and luckily the secretary was there on a Saturday morning, she gave me one. After I'd asked the principal for one numerous times last week). So, anyway, all the other teachers got paid first thing this morning but I didn't get to turn in my W-4 until today, so I didn't get paid. And the secretary said I won't get paid until the next payday on the last day of the month. Which I find to be some crap, especially since I asked for my W-4 all week and no one would give me one. Luckily the school's accountant is local, so I dropped by his office this afternoon to see if I can get today's paycheck. Of course he wasn't in, so he's supposed to call me tomorrow and let me know. I really can't afford to go another 2.5 weeks without getting paid, so I'm stressing over that!

I'm trying to ignore the little voice inside my head telling me I never should have taken a job. I know things will get better once I'm in a routine, but today I'm just feeling overwhelmed and confused.


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## Everrgreen

Mal - It all sounds very stressful right now but I'm sure once you get started everything will fall into place and you will love it! And I hope the pay stuff gets straightened out, they definitely shouldn't be making you wait til the next pay. I can't really think of what social studies even includes, I was always more into math and science. My first thoughts are to cover different aspects about the community (services that kids are familiar with like the library and parks etc.) and how people work together in the community to help each other. Stuff like that, maybe?

RE pottying: R also chose to start pottying before I had planned and I ran with it and it worked out well. I had planned on waiting til the summer when the weather was warm but he just started going and I had to take advantage. I did not use any trainers - we spent a few weeks just staying naked while at home and then 2 weeks getting used to boxers before he became consistently accident free. Including night-time (he rarely peed at night even in diapers) He rarely ever has accidents now, like never. So starling I think you need to run with E's new found skill! And I she very likely could be completely 'trained' when the new babe arrives 

Cindy - I am very impressed that M pulls her own pants up and down! That's what I need R to figure out! He won't do either :/

RE naps: R still has a 2 hour nap every afternoon (actually the other day he had a 4 hour nap!!) He goes to bed late though, around 10pm and sleeps until 7:30/8:00.

RE OCD: R isn't too bad with this. He is mostly easy going and easily distracted. If he's tired then he can get really cranky about everything (who doesn't?) Sometimes when we are playing I do it all wrong and get "no no no, mama, not like that" and he just seems so disappointed in me - like, 'seriously how does this lady not know how to play?' lol!

RE TV: I sold it. R will sometimes watch a show on the laptop but it usually isn't worth it. Once he watches it he wants to watch it again and it causes so many tantrums. But if he doesn't watch it at all he forgets about it.

Everyone has so much going and I can't reply to everything right now! I've been busy with all my visiting since Friday and it's exhausting but nice. I'm so glad we are going to be closer to all these family and friends. R is going to love it (and so am I!)


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## mckittre

Mal - Hopefully it will all seem like a much better idea once you have a roomful of cute little kids to teach. And they really should pay you!

Starling - yay for pottying!

Pottying - Today we told Katmai that after two pairs of pants there were no more dry pants, and he would have to wear a diaper for the rest of the day, which he hasn't done in quite a while. He threw an enormous tantrum about it, which I consider a good thing. Not liking diapers might be the only hope we have at this point. He will never ever ever tell us when he has to pee if he has pants on (sometimes will tell us for poop), and will argue and argue and argue if I suggest that he might try to go. If only I really could just leave him naked forever.... And we use compostable (gDiapers) inserts for backpacking, so it really will be twice as many diapers if we have to bring them for him and Lituya.


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## justKate

Erin, what about just making pottying one of those things that must be done before the next activity? Aubs never wants to go, or asks to go, so every time something ends, she has to go before the next thing begins. Ready to go outside? Oh, we need to go potty on the way. Time for snack? Oops, lets hurry and go potty first. Or maybe there could be one toy or activity that he gets to do after pottying? It is so frustrating. We're still dealing with the poop issues here--seems like it will never end, although of course it will eventually....


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## Thursday Girl

social studies with kids isn't liek social studies with older kids. It'ds stuff liek communities (like E said) and stuff about history, social interaction, etc. it's not structured when they are that little.

pottying- woohoo for E!!! I tried and tried to get Jewel potty trained and then just found out that they do it on their own time anyway. you can harass and harangue but they will still potty at the same time...maybe even later, but when they do it themselves it is pretty much done. They have accidents still, hell my oldest had an accident at 7!Accidents happen, but mostly if they decide for themselves it's pretty much done.


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## Mal85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thursday Girl*
> 
> *social studies with kids isn't liek social studies with older kids. It'ds stuff liek communities (like E said) and stuff about history, social interaction, etc. it's not structured when they are that little.*
> 
> pottying- woohoo for E!!! I tried and tried to get Jewel potty trained and then just found out that they do it on their own time anyway. you can harass and harangue but they will still potty at the same time...maybe even later, but when they do it themselves it is pretty much done. They have accidents still, hell my oldest had an accident at 7!Accidents happen, but mostly if they decide for themselves it's pretty much done.


Yeah, I got a chance today to sit down with the other teacher and take a look at what exactly she wants me to do. It does sound pretty simple. They read a story about a family living in a town, it's an ongoing story about this family and the different things in their town, I guess. Then, they have some coloring sheets that go with it and discussion topics. I can handle that. I'm still a little lost there though, she hasn't planned her lessons beyond this week and have all my other lessons planned through the month of September. So, I'm unnecessarily stressing over that since I would like to get that far ahead. But we really need to plan those lessons week-by-week with each other to make sure we don't overlap anything. I'm just being a little OCD about it.

Owyn and I actually had a very nice day together today, a great way to spend our last day before school starts (ahhhh!! tomorrow!!!). I had a midwife appt this morning, so I took her with me. She was just in a really great mood and listening to me very well today. I love successful days like that when we're not fighting over every little thing! (aside from the fact that once we got home, she peed her pants 3 times... oh well, can't have it all!) She loved hearing the baby. I don't take her with me to appts often, so she loves hearing that when she gets to come. The baby had the hiccups when we were trying to get her on the doppler and very determined not to let us hear what we needed. I'm 28 weeks and down to every two week appointments. Wow, doesn't seem like I should be this far yet!!


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## starling&diesel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thursday Girl*
> 
> pottying- woohoo for E!!! I tried and tried to get Jewel potty trained and then just found out that they do it on their own time anyway. you can harass and harangue but they will still potty at the same time...maybe even later, but when they do it themselves it is pretty much done. They have accidents still, hell my oldest had an accident at 7!Accidents happen, but mostly if they decide for themselves it's pretty much done.


This is SO true! I told DP to remind me of this when we're homeschooling and she's digging her heels in about something. All in good time. At their own pace. Don't push.

E hasn't worn a diaper in two days! With no accidents! How crazy is that? I'm not calling it a done deal by any means, but we're off to a great start. We've even been out of the house all day both days at parks and libraries and stores and in and out of the car and public transit and into countless public toilets, and she's managed to stay dry and use all these random public toilets with nary a problem.


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## mckittre

starling - yay for potty learning! I hope it keeps going well for you.

I've given up on this end - Katmai's been in a diaper again a few hours yesterday and half the day today despite having been out of them during the day for months. I thought he was ready? I mean, he was able to take himself to the potty while naked with basically no accidents over 3 months ago. But he will not go any farther. Maybe it would work to do it at an activity change, but it would be an argument every time, and what if we were doing something (playing outside, etc..) for a longer time? And I cannot handle the constant arguments over going to the potty and wet pants all day long anymore. I also cannot leave him naked for very much longer in our climate - summer's going fast. He couldn't care less what the other little kids are doing, so peer pressure won't help me either. Argh! I just need to vent a bit. I don't really understand why this seems to work for everyone but me, and I really don't see any way forward. I don't feel like I pushed him - we started so slowly, and I only put him in underwear after he seemed to have really gotten it. But I guess being ready to use the potty while naked is not at all the same as being ready while clothed (not even within months?), and I should just put diapers back on him, even though it seems like moving the wrong direction? Some day he'll just decide to do it himself? Really?


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## AKislandgirl

Oh Erin! Big hugs! I totally know how you feel because that is what we went through on vacation. She'd scream at me if I suggested going potty and then pee her pants 3 minutes later. I put her in diapers (Borrowed from my younger niece because I didn't have any!) for the last day because I needed to have clean laundry to pack! She seems to be back on track now that we are home but still has about 1 accident a day. I also often wonder if I went for it too early. I feel we'll be at this for a looong time! I hope it does click (again!) for him soon.

My prenatal appt was canceled for this week so I have to see a different Dr next week. I hate that. Otherwise I would have to wait until Sept 1st to see my own Dr! WTH?! I"m supposed to be on an every 2 week schedule but this puts me pretty far from my last appt. It was already stretched a bit due to travel. Hopefully the next one will be back with my regular Dr and I can just see her from here on out. I'm eager to go over my birth plan with her.


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## Everrgreen

mckittre - I'm sorry potty learning is taking so long for you! I wonder if maybe it's because he is still seeing his baby sister in diapers? I know at the beginning if R asked for a diaper I would just say they were gone - which you can't do. I think it is one of those things that will just all of a sudden click for him. I wish I had some great advice for you though. I just don't know what to say.

AK - That sucks about your appointments! Especially when you are so close to the end. I guess the new dr can just do a quick check-up and you can keep the Sept 1 appt for your birth plans?

Starling - Yay!! That's awesome! Way to go E!

My cousin has decided to register his 2 year old in the same daycare with R! BUT, the daycare has put them in separate rooms :/ They said that was better to encourage the kids to meet new people rather than cling to the ones they know (blah blah blah). I guess it makes sense but it would have been nice for them to be together. We can put them together after a while. They will still see each other at various points through the day (gym time, outdoor time (I think..), and during snacks/lunch)

Also, I got my school schedule and I don't have class at all on Tuesdays and will be home by 4:15pm wed-fri (monday I'll be late). I do leave very early wed-fri but that's ok.


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## Mal85

Erin, when do you leave for your 2 months on the glacier? How exciting, even with all the potty troubles! If it were me, I'd probably just back off while you're gone. Try to get as much naked time as possible while you're away.... if that's possibly at all. How cold will it be on the glacier? If the pressure is off, he may take to it pretty easily once you're back home. I hope so anyway, I know how frustrating it can be especially if you have two in diapers!

Sue: My office did the same thing to me a while back, only it was my big ultrasound appointment that kept getting changed. Seriously pissed me off, so I totally get your frustration! Hopefully this is a one time thing and they get their act together.

Starling: Go E!! Fingers crossed that she keeps it up, it's so exciting when they finally make that connection!

Everr: Having worked in daycare for so long, I get why they want to split up cousins. My niece and nephew have been in the same grade throughout school and the school always purposely put them in separate classes. They tend to do that with twins too.

I had my first day with my preschoolers yesterday. It was a short day, they came from 8-11:30. Our normal day will be 8-3. It went pretty well for a first day. I had a couple of nervous kiddos and some tears over Mommy and Daddy leaving. I imagine that will just get better with time, but with 3 year olds crying is part of the package, right? I'm nervous about having them all day tomorrow... they were SO ready to go home by 11:30. I'm so happy I've scheduled in a nap in the afternoon, they will certainly need it. I know I have a 2.5 year old at home, but it just surprised me to see just how young 3 year olds are in a classroom. Tomorrow I will have to take them to lunch in the cafeteria and I'm so nervous about them walking to the table with their trays, I'm seeing a lot of messes in our future!

I also finally got some word on maternity leave. They are offering me 6 weeks off at 50% of my pay or 3 weeks off with full pay. I get my first paycheck today or tomorrow, so DH and I are waiting to see how much my bring home is before we decide which route to go. I'd love to take the 6 weeks at 50% if we can afford it and it would allow me to keep all my sick days which I'd be nervous to go without all through the winter. If we can't afford it, I'm going to ask if I can use my sick leave in conjunction with maternity leave... take the 3 weeks full pay and use up my sick leave. Either way, it gets me through the week they get out for Christmas break, so I'd be returning after the first of the year. I'm pretty excited about that!


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## AKislandgirl

Oh *Mal*, so glad to hear about the maternity leave. I hope to today in the lunch room goes well! The first week is always the hardest. Hopefully as the little ones get used to school drops off will be easier for them. They have you which makes them lucky kiddos indeed! 

So I sent an email to my Dr because she is also somewhat of a friend. I used to nanny her son was he was little. Anyway I just asked her to put a note in my file to make the next appt with her since the clinic policy is to see all the Dr's at some point (because you never know who is on call). She has been making an exception for me and has agreed to be there for the birth even if she's not the Dr on call. Anyway, she just said she'd have the clinic call me and she is switching my appt with the other Dr to her next week. She'll squeeze me in even though the lady on the phone said she didn't have any appt's available. Yeah! So glad I decided to send her an email!

Fiona had a terrible nights sleep and woke up all stuffed up with a cold. The sun we've been having is gone and it's a rainy Kodiak day. So we'll just curl up inside for the day and hope she feels better tomorrow. A nice soak in the tub should help too. I kind of like cozy days like this though. (Only wish she wasn't feeling cruddy!)


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## Thursday Girl

Hope FIona feels better soon. Totally cool your dr squeezed you in!

Erin- My first was 3 before she trained, it happens. I think it will help if you guys go back to diapers and then approach it again at another time. They all potty train eventually and while it sucks that you will be on a glacier for 2 months with 2 in diapers it will work out better in the long run. How long until you leave? wouldn't it be cool if you switched back to diapers and then he decided before you left that he didn't want diapers anymore??

Mal at my kids school they always tell us about the adjustment period, even for the kids who have been at the school. they say to plan for at least 2 weeks.

I have Parent orientation tonight, and a lot of changes have happened at the kids school. then tomorrow is the student orientation, a half day. first they play some team work games with the whole school, then they go meet their teachers and classrooms. Josie is going into Lower School so will be changing classes for the first time this year. Of course now I am trying to get her to so her summer reading project and she has lost the book. urrggh


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## justKate

Sue, that is great that she will squeeze you in. Lousy that Fiona is feeling crappy. Hopefully it won't last long.

Mal, I think it's great that they're offering you maternity leave. I mean, they should, but you know how it is here in the US. I think its a good sign.

Everr, it probably will be better for them if they split them up. Plus it will be more exciting when they do see each other at times during the day. Your schedule sounds good. I think this is going to be a great change for you, and I hope it will be for R too.

Erin, Courtney is probably right about PL. It sucks, because we want to do these things on our time, but it really doesn't work that way of course. At least if you prepare yourself to diaper two while you're away, if Katmai stays dry part of the time you'll be pleased, rather than being stressed about it not working for him.

Starling, how are you doing holding off the pre-E?

Cindy, any 2WW signs? I've got everything crossed for you. If you're getting tired of people asking feel free to tell me to shut it!

Aubs started "pre-school" this week, Tuesday and Thursday from 9-12. It basically gives me time to grocery shop, do my prenatal appts, and start studying for the Bar exam (I mean, it will when I get around to starting that). She LOVES it, and they seem really nice, although the food is definitely not as healthy as I would like. For example, they had orange juice and cupcakes for snack this morning. I would be okay with muffins, but c'mon, cupcakes? But I guess if that's the only complaint, its not a big deal.

Had a prenatal appt with the midwife this morning, basically just to get info about the staff and the hospital. I was really pleasantly surprised with the responses I got re. VBAC--very relieved. Although they have OBs and midwives, I only have to see an OB once to get a "sign off" on my VBAC, otherwise I can see the midwives exclusively. The one I saw today was very supportive, and talked about how 20 years ago insurance companies required a trial of labor in normal pregnancies or they wouldn't pay for a section. She also emphasized that I need to gain less weight this time to maximize my VBAC chances--I guess 45 lbs (or more!) was a little much for a not-quite-7 lb baby. So I'm feeling good about it all today.

Courtney, how are you feeling? I've had 3 or 4 miserably sick days, but overall things have been tolerable.

DH is working overnight tonight, so Aubs and I are going to go have dinner with him at work, and then watch a movie or something. I love girls' night!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: My heart breaks that you might have to go back to work after 3-6 weeks! I'm glad they are giving you something - but that is pretty lame! Though I think in CA you have to work someplace 9 months or more to qualify for paid maternity leave? Not sure. The whole thing makes me mad. I hope the long day goes well today! I'm sure the adjustment period is just as hard on you as it is for them.

Erin: No advice, just hugs. Sucks to still have potty issues after so long!! I don't know that I would be going back to diapers - but I also don't have a 2nd child to tend to and am not going to live on a glacier...so whatever is easiest for you!

Everr: It's great that R will have a familiar face at school! Your schedule sounds great. Remind me again what you are studying?

AFM: Nothing exciting here. Still getting a + on pregnancy tests from my trigger shot so no early testing for me. My dr told me that given DH's lower count, we may have to go to IVF in a cycle or 2 (if I'm not pregnant by then). Fantastic. So needless to say, my hopes aren't high that the IUI worked this month.

I just watched 2 of M's friends for 4 hours. M was the toughest one. Wouldn't listen and kept hitting. I'm pooped. It's like she turns into another child around her friends - she gets so hyper.

Cindy


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## justKate

Grr, Cindy, tell the trigger to hurry up and fade away so that you can start POAS for real. I guess its better not to be overly optimistic so that you won't be let down if it doesn't work right away. But I'm still going to be super optimistic for you.


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: Thanks - you made me smile.  I didn't see your post from earlier until just now. Yay for preschool! Makenna starts next Friday. I'm so looking forward to next week bc I still have babysitting co-op 2 days next week AND 1 day of preschool. I'm so doing lots of yoga next week! Makenna is really excited and so am I - not just for free time. It sounds really wonderful and I think she is going to love it. I'm thankful that it's co-op and that her best friend's mom will be one of the moms there on the 1st day so she will have an adult she feels comfortable with. I'll be there on day 2. Oh and as for symptoms - I never really get many in the 2 week wait. Heck, I hardly had any the 10 weeks I was pregnant last time. Plus I do have HCG in my system from the shot so that can cause some, I think. But I totally cried over talking to a dr's office yesterday at 7 dpo. The month I had my chemical, I cried over something lame at 7 dpo. So I'm hoping maybe it's a good sign. Or it could just be bc I'm so sick of dealing w/fertility crap and it was the urologist's office - I need to get DH in by month end bc our insurance is changing and they won't be covered. And the lady scheduling was giving me a hard time.


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## starling&diesel

Oh, *Cindy* ... I have everything crossed for you!

*Erin* ... I have so little experience with this whole PL thing that I don't have anything helpful to say, especially because I haven't done any research on what might work when or how or why or for what particular kid. I hope you find a solution that works for everyone. How are you getting your things to the glacier? A plane drop off, or do you have to haul it all yourself?

*Mal* ... I agree, it sounds hopeful that they've offered you the leave. But I'm also with Cindy on this one ... how hard to go back to work at 3-6 weeks post partum! As a Canadian, I still can't get over that you all don't get a year like we do. Heck, a mama is just getting signed off by her midwife at 6 wks post partum. It sounds like your class is coming together! So exciting to see you in a fabulous work situation after you spent so long seeking your dream job.

*Kate* ... Awesome that you're on track for your VBAC! My best mama bud is also going for a VBAC with the same midwife team that I'm with. She's very excited about it! I'm thrilled for you too. Have a wonderful girls' night with Aubs!

*Ever* ... I dunno, I would love to see the two little guys be in a group together. I think I'd go a little bit Mama bear about it. But I'm sentimental like that. How cool that you got everything sorted out! And your schedule sounds totally doable! I can't wait to hear how your first day of class is!

*AFM*: On the *pre-e* front, I'm still spilling protein. About the same as last time (+1.5). So at today's midwife appointment, my mw wrote out a blood panel requisition so that we can see if my liver and kidneys are symptomatic or not. My BP is beautiful: 102/65. But then it wasn't the problem last time either. I've only gained about ten pounds overall, so I'll be watching the scale now to see if I'm putting on water weight. It's a drag, but to be honest, I'd just like to know for sure, so that I can narrow my options and rethink my birth plan. Right now we're still aiming for a homebirth, so if we can't have one, I want to know now.

I'm feeling great still ... hoofed it twenty city blocks, round trip to get the blood work done, and hardly broke a sweat. Still have lots of energy, considering. I'm not sleeping well, but that's the same as my pregnancy with E.

As for *preschool*, we've got a pre-homeschool group in the neighbourhood that we might participate more actively in this year. I say that now, but they meet on Thursdays, which is one of our days off. Actually DP went to Science World with E today to supposedly hook up with the homelearners group, but she got shy and chickened out. Her and E hung out by themselves.

*Potty learning* is still going awesome. Day four, and haven't had an accident yet. She's even waking up from a full night's sleep and her naps totally dry. Exciting!


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## mckittre

starling - wishing that protein away for you. I hope you get your homebirth, and I hope you have a good birth anyway if you don't. Homebirths aren't really possible here, but I had a great birth with a great midwife in the hospital with both of mine.

cindy - I hope this time is it for you, and if not, I hope there isn't too much more pain and hassle before that next little one settles in to your womb.

Everr - That's funny about them not putting the cousins in the same room. Here, there are so few kids that we have a K-4 classroom at the school, so cousins, siblings, best friends since birth, etc... are all in the same class.

Mal - I'm glad that it sounds like you'll get something, even if it is so short!

Preschool - We aren't doing anything this year, but I'm really excited that my good friend and neighbor got the job as Head Start teacher in town. She has all sorts of education in early childhood stuff, and is just all around awesome, and Katmai knows and likes her. That makes me much more interested in putting him in next year. All the other parents of littles are similarly happy about it.

Pottying - Well, I've decided to reduce my frustration for now, and not worry about it too much. I've been leaving him naked at home because accidents are rare that way, and it seems a pity to change unneccessary diapers. But I'll try to do diapers when we're out, if I can get him into one without a screaming fit.

And just because it seems unfair to only be complaining about him, I'll say that Katmai has been doing really awesome in almost all other ways. Getting better about playing with his sister, playing independently in long pretend games, doing things by himself, putting his toys away, getting fast on his balance bike, helping daddy with firewood, eating veggies from the garden, etc...

Glacier Trip - We've made 3 or 4 separate Amazon orders in the last few days trying to get all the gear lined up that we'll need (can't seem to remember everything at once). Need to get that done soon, to allow for enough time to ship it all up here before we leave on Sep 12 ish. We'll have a plane charter us out there, but we'll be leaving food caches at 3 different base camps, and will have to get us and our stuff between them. I've been baking food to take with us as snacks, and Katmai's been helping me weigh everything on our baby scale. I'm excited, but it still seems like a lot to do in less than a month. And I have to harvest the rest of the garden.


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## justKate

Erin, there's this book--whenever you talk about your adventures I think of it. One Man's Wilderness? It's short--basically the diary of a man who lived alone, off the land, in AK. Very appealing in a way. I hope you all have a wonderful time.


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## AKislandgirl

We just had F's first dentist appointment. She did so great! I was so proud of her. They call them "happy visits" and just show them the tools, let them ride the chair and then the dentist counts her teeth. She even let him floss. He discovered that her back bottom molars (one on either side) is pitted. He said we can either just work hard to keep them really clean or do sealants. He said he'd do them both for the price of one since our insurance won't cover it. I'll have to talk to DH and see what he thinks but we'll probably go for it since doing sealants is a lot less traumatic then filling a cavity. She'll have these teeth until she is around 11. Does anyone know of any downsides to doing sealants?

Baby time is fast approaching and I feel like I need to make my list and finish getting ready for this girl! I've been putting it off mostly. I started doing my hypnobabies again which has me really excited about labor and birth! I also love the relaxation listening to the tracks give me. I either do it during nap time or as I'm going to bed at night. Hoping to utilize it more then I did last time. I used it in the beginning of my labor with F but by the end I was so wiped out I just let it go.

Dh just informed me that his field work will continue through the fall and winter. I thought he was almost done! They are day trips but put him out of cell range and due to the nature of his project will have to take several whole days during his family leave to go out in the field. Great... not what I wanted to hear. If I go into labor while he is out there I will need to call one of his coworkers to drive out to the end of the road (1 hour) and use a radio to contact him on the boat because the radio doesn't work from town- you have to be closer. Then the time to come in from the water, pull the boat in, and drive back (which takes longer pulling a trailor!). I was not pleased and basically said... no, you need a better plan then that. We'll see. I'm really not OK with him heading out in the week before I'm due.


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## starling&diesel

*Sue* ... That's no good! I'd be pretty upset about your DP's work situation, but I get that he's got to do what he's go to do. I have few expectations of DP when it comes to her being able to take time off. She's the head chef at a large, popular restaurant, and her work ethic is pretty immense, so I take what I can get and treasure our time when she is home. But if she was unreachable, I'd be pretty choked! Especially with a second (faster?) baby!

I've got some pics for the rest of you other than Sue, who saw them on our belly pics thread:


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## Mal85

Agreed Sue, I wouldn't like that at all! But, I guess there's not much to do about it, right? I'm freaking a little because DH is going away the first week of October for some work training... and it's only 4 days and a whole month before my due date. I'm freaking more about my lack of energy and being solely responsible for DD and me and getting us out the door on time on the mornings I have to work. DH has been in charge of getting her dressed and ready to go while I get ready, so I'm not looking forward to getting up earlier that week and getting myself ready before she gets up. First world problem, I know!

So, I finally got my first paycheck today from work... only a week late! But we were waiting on it to see what we'd need to do for maternity leave. Looks like I'll be able to take that 6 weeks. It will actually end up being 8 weeks though, which is nice. I'm going to work through the week before my due date (I'm due over a weekend), then my 6 weeks gets me through until their 2 week Christmas break. Also, I talked with an old high school friend over the weekend and she actually got called to be my substitute while I'm off. I soooo hope she does it!! It would take such a load off my shoulders if I knew she was my sub. She just graduated with a teaching degree, so I know if I just write my lesson plans like normal for her she'd be able to handle from there. I wouldn't have to worry about how my class is doing while I'm gone!

Owyn is doing well. We had 3 birthday parties over the weekend, which she loved of course. She is actually doing really well with her sitter and talks about her frequently. This morning, as soon as she got dressed she was finding her shoes ready to "go home to Sherri's house!" as she put it. DH picked her up early today because the sitter had to leave, so they got to spend the afternoon together. Now, this evening she has no interest in Mommy after having Daddy all to herself today! Funny story from her weekend.... my nephew, who is 3, pushed Owyn while we were at my aunts. I guess he pushed her in the stomach. She came running over to me saying "Mommy! Brodie pushed my belly, he hurt my baby!!" I had to laugh, I'm always telling her she'll hurt the baby if she climbs on Mommy's belly. I guess she's listening!

I think we may have named the baby! DH and I had tabled the discussion for a while because we ended up arguing every time we discussed it. We recently brought it up again and the arguing started all over again. The problem is I have names I love, DH doesn't like them. But he doesn't have any other names he really likes and he already chose the middle name (he wants to use his aunt's middle name since she never had any children of her own). So, I finally told him (very calmly even!) that I was done talking about it with him. He'd already chosen one name and he chose Owyn's name, so if he didn't have anything he loved for the first name it was only fair to let me use the name I love. He's not thrilled, but he's going with it. So, as of now, baby's name will be.... Greta June. (or Gretta? which spelling do you guys like better??)


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## Mal85

And Starling, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE those pics! Your belly has really popped since the last time you posted pics and you look sooo happy!


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## starling&diesel

Greta June! Love it! And definitely only one 't' in my books. We're stuck on names here too. I wish my DP would agree to Skye. That's the island in Scotland where my family comes from, but she's known a few too many unpleasant Skyes in her life. Bah.

Some names we're considering (and I will only disclose them to you mamas here):

Hawksley

Sollis

Severin

Rawley

Levi

Shilo

Holden

Zev

Anybody love any of those? Thoughts? Opinions?

Thanks for the compliments on the photos, *Mal*. We had fun taking them! And good luck flying solo! I'm sure you can handle one kid when you handle so many all day long. You're my hero!


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## mckittre

starling - great pics! I can't believe it's getting so close!

Kate - I know that book. Actually the guy filmed himself building his cabin and such with an old-school video camera, and the movie is a fun watch.

Sue - could you rent a sat phone? Won't solve the transport problem, but maybe at least you can contact him without such a lag.

Mal - I think Greta June is great. And I like that spelling (one t) better.

It's been rainy rainy rainy here lately. Good for testing rain gear for the expedition. Kind of swamped here with expedition prep, finishing some projects before we leave, and trying to get the garden harvested and the food put away in the next few weeks. Having a more successful garden this year is a mixed blessing! Last night I made pickles from the stems of kohlrabi and broccoli leaves, which came out pretty well.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: I adore your pics! You look stunning...and so happy.  Def much more of a belly now! My 3 fave names are Sollis, Hawksley and Holden.

Erin: Great pic of Katmai! I'm way impressed by your gardening skills.

Mal: Greta June. I like it too. I too vote for 1 "t". Glad you'll be able to swing 8 weeks off. Way better than 3!!

Sue: I hope DH can find another solution. That would freak me out too! Did you have a long labor w/Fiona? Glad the dentist went well. Sounds like M's visit. Very cute. They even gave her a picture of her in the chair in a paper frame that said "first dentist visit". It's up on the fridge.

AFM: I need prayer and sticky baby thoughts over here! I've been in testing hell/limbo-land. I was testing daily to test out my trigger shot. Once it was gone, I'd know any BFP was real and not from the trigger. Only it's been 13 days and it never went away!!!! A lot of people have it gone in 6-8 days. Should be gone by 10. Longest I've found is 12 days for the odd person. So I think I may actually be pregnant. Only the lines are faint and haven't gotten darker over the last couple days. So I am really afraid that it is a chemical pregnancy. I'm all stressed out. My RE's office told me I could test on Wed. The tests are still + tonight - only 1.5 days before my official test day. So I suppose it could still be trigger, but it's highly doubtful. There just is no way of knowing anything until wed. If it is still + on wed, I will go for betas. I even spoke to my RE today about something unrelated and asked if it could still be trigger and he had no idea. Really helpful. So I wait. I'll keep you posted. But I've been bummed all afternoon bc I just don't think they are progressing as they should. I'm getting lines on the cheapies and $tree but the FRER I took mid day was BFN. Pee was more diluted then and the $tree I took at the same time was fainter then too, but still. One thing's for sure. If there is a next time, I'm going to have to find it in me to resist testing until my official test date. This has been ridiculous!

Cindy


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## Vegan Princess

Oh and I am 11 or 12 dpo today.


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - I have everything crossed for you!! I can't imagine the emotions you're going through right now. You will know soon though and hopefully it will be a BFP! It does sound promising 

mckittre - I am also impressed by your gardening! (Actually.. I'm impressed by everything you do!) I have never heard of kohlrabi though, it looks interesting! I think it's a good choice to relax about pottying. It's not worth the frustration! And he will do it when he's ready which will probably be soon. I think it's awesome that Katmai will play independently! That's something R needs to work on :/ Good luck with all your trip prep!

starling - Gorgeous photos! You both look so happy and E is looking so grown up. How is the pre-e? Are you still able to have your homebirth? And I really like all your names. I think Sollis stands out the most for me. Maybe you just need to wait til he's born and see which name is truly his!

Mal - I'm glad everything is working out well at work and that Owyn is doing so well with the transition. And Greta June is a beautiful name - love it! (and I vote one t)

AK - That really sucks about your dh. The idea of renting a sat phone sounds good. It would help him get to you a little quicker and also ease your mind if you know you can actually talk to him and hear his voice. I will keep my fingers crossed for you that you go into labour while he's home!

I think R will have his first dental appt in September, once we get moved I'll find one that looks good and make appts for both of us.

Kate - I'm glad everything is going well with your midwives! I really hope you get to have your vbac! And that's great that Aubs is loving preschool! Not so great about the snacks but I suppose she'll survive ;o) Although, I plan on getting R's menu in advance so I can send substitutes if they are serving something we don't eat.

R starts daycare 2 weeks from today! Omg, just typing that makes me feel nauseous. And we move in 4 days! Eek! I hope he loves his daycare. My mom babysat both boys this past weekend and said she thinks it's maybe a good thing they are going to be apart at first. In her words, R 'over-extends himself', which is a grandma's way of saying he's a bit controlling and steals toys lol! And my cousins son is very quiet and just goes along with it, so maybe it's a good thing R will have a chance to learn to play nicer.

Today's plans involve going out to get boxes and then more packing - fun!


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... How maddening and emotionally exhausting. I'm thinking of you. Baby-making can be so crazy-making for those of us who need a little help. I'm so sorry that it's not more straightforward and easy for you! Fingers crossed! Come on, BFP!

*Erin* ... That is one beautiful kid and one beautiful kolrabi!

*Ever* ... What an exciting time coming up for you! I can't wait to hear how it goes with both the move and daycare.


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## AKislandgirl

*Cindy:* I so know how emotionally crazy these times are for you. I hope there won't be a next time and this is it but I highly recomend not testing until you know it will be the real test date. I got to a point with TTC Fiona that I just couldn't take it emotionally anymore. It is so hard. Big hugs and lots of fingers crossed that this is it Mama!

*Mal:* I'm so glad that you will at least get the 8 weeks. I know it will be hard to go back still but that must be nice to know that you will at least get that. And since you are part time you will still have lots of full days with your babes! I LOVE Greta June! (I'm with the one T crowd!)

*Everrgreen:* Yeah for moving and restarting! So exciting!

*Erin:* Such a great picture! Good luck on all the final prep for the expedition! I've been thinking about diapers again for Fiona... yesterday she had 4 accidents. The three days before she had only one in those three days so I'm going to power through but I'll be thinking about you while you are gone and hope it starts to click for K. If only they could be naked all the time!

*Starling:* Once again I love the pics. I didn't see the last one earlier and just love it! A beautiful glowing Mama! Your names are great! I love Hawksley, Sollis, and Holden the best too!

*AFM:* I thought about a SAT phone too but my mane question is this... why the F doesn't his work provide one? What if there was some kind of emergency while he was on the water? My guess is that they are supposed to but DH is not one to "rock the boat" at work. I should just ask his boss?! DH would so not like that! I won't really.

I'm heading to the furniture store to buy a dresser today. We sold DH's old car over the weekend so now we have the money for it. I can't wait to get those baby clothes washed and put away! I hope can deliver it right away! Fun Fun!

We are still working on names too... This is our list in no particular order. Middle names may change but I think this is what we like at this point.

Hazel Grace

Violet Maeve

Sylvia Grace


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## justKate

Ugh, just lost a long reply to everyone. Now DH is on the way home and I have to get it together--it's his birthday today.

Especially wanted to ask Cindy, are you 12/13 dpo today, or 12/13 dp trigger? What did your test look like today?


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## justKate

Ugh, just lost a long reply to everyone. Now DH is on the way home and I have to get it together--it's his birthday today.

Especially wanted to ask Cindy, are you 12/13 dpo today, or 12/13 dp trigger? What did your test look like today?

ETA: Just saw that Wed. is your test day, so that would be like 14dpo, I think. I looked on FF some, and it seems like no one knows if the trigger HAS TO fade. Weird. I hope you've got a darker line today.

Sue, what about renting a sat phone for him, short-term? Or having someone meet him at a dock when/if he's out when you go in to labor, so that he doesn't have to trailer the boat, etc.? Realistically, a VHF radio and an eperb are probably adequate for safety, but maybe his boss happens to have a sat phone he could have available for a little while? Doesn't hurt to ask... Sucky timing. I'm sorry that you're dealing with this! Re. names, I think Hazel goes best with Fiona.

I need a new dresser for Aubs, and probably one for the new baby. Very frustrating because furniture is so freakin' expensive, and DH won't let me buy "disposable" furniture because he is a bull in a china closet and thinks it won't last. Well duh, that's why it's cheap. So I've done nothing on that end, and all of Aubs' clothes are piled on top of her broken down dresser. Maybe that's what I should think about today.....

Starling, your photos are beautiful! I especially love the one of E and DP, each with one finger in the water. And you're beautiful, too--your belly has popped since the last pic you posted here! Re. names, Aubs did have a Holden in her daycare class in TX, so I would lean towards something else, but that's just me. Paul has decided that if this is a boy he will be Zane Archer. (Zane for Zane Grey, the american author/fisherman; Archer off a civil war era tombstone--we thought it was a strong name.) I'm okay with that name, provided he doesn't give me any crap about not circing the babe. I think its a fair trade off. I know its morbid, but I think cemeteries are a great place for names. No association with a living person to cloud the name. Are you sticking with your ergo as your go-to-baby-carrier this time? I have to say, I've been eying the new one: Ergo Performance But it would be a waste unless I could sell mine and get a decent price.... I also picked up an Maya Wrap Ring Sling at a consignment shop for $8.50, so I really have no excuse to be looking at anything new. *sigh* A girl can dream though.

Ever, THREE days till your move! I'm sure you're ready to get settled in your new place. I think R just might have a great time at daycare. Aubs LOVES it--and it really wears her out and helps her sleep well at night. I can't wait to hear how it all goes. Anything that you have left to do?

Now I need to read back a little further....


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## Vegan Princess

Well today is my official test day and the test is negative! I was even getting a shadow of a line last night - but you had to look really hard. I can't know for sure if it was chemical or trigger. I'm going to call my Dr to discuss it with his nurse. But I do think it is pretty unheard of to still have it in your system that long after! Yesterday was 14 days since the trigger. It wasn't a high dose trigger either. Anyway, I def will be trying to hold out until test day next time. I don't want to know about a chemical pregnancy again either. I spent the last 2 days bummed but I've accepted it now and I'm fine.

Today we are going to play and have lunch at the fieldhouse where Makenna's preschool is going to take place. To get her a little more comfortable with the space. Friday is the first day of school! She is very excited about her lunchbox!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Oh I'm sorry you got a BFN  I'm glad you are feeling ok about it. I will focus all my fertility vibes on your next cycle! It's going to happen soon!

Kate - Zane Archer is a great name! I notice names I like in all sorts of strange places and definitely would pay attention to names in a cemetery too  That is an awesome steal for a ring sling! I really loved my ring sling although I didn't get it until R was older. I think I would love it for a newborn. When R was first born I used a moby wrap and then a woven wrap.

And I like Ikea's dressers 

AK - I hope you can get your dh to ask his boss! It's really not rocking the boat, it's just a phone! And he should have one for safety anyway.

Oh and I think my pick from your name list is Hazel, but I like all your names!

More packing today and had to go get more boxes. The packing is almost done though, all that's left is stuff we still need to use. I can't wait until we are moved and unpacked! And then school starts!


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## AKislandgirl

Big hugs *Cindy!* Sorry it didn't work out well this time.

*Kate:* I'm so glad to hear that Aubs is loving daycare! Do you guys feel like you have settled in and meeting people? I always feel like that is the hardest part about moving.

*Re Dresser:* I stood on the porch as I watched the delivery guys pull it out of their truck and have all the drawers fall out on the road one at a time! Then the bottom molding fell off. You deliver furniture for a living and you don't pull the drawers out?! They just put it back in and came back with another one. Phew... fits perfectly where we wanted it and I pulled the box of baby clothes out and washed them. DH gets home and goes to check it out... the molding is falling off the bottom and the top of the dresser is coming apart. Pisses me off... we payed $600 for this! So back it will go today. I'm going to call IKEA in Seattle and see if they will deliver to the barge. If they can't deliver I'm going to beg my sister to do it for me. Sometimes living here can be so frustrating!

Nothing gorgeous like Starling shared but here is my 33 week belly... 



And here is my girl after really getting in to eating her black beans!...


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## Mal85

Cindy: I'm sorry it didn't work out this cycle. I keep sending you all the fertility vibes I can, keeping my fingers crossed for the next go-around!

Ever: Good luck on the move! I hope R has a smooth adjustment. From what you say about him, he seems like the kind of kid to handle it with ease. Be prepared for some meltdowns when you're around though. Owyn is pretty easy going when it comes to new people and me leaving, so she's done great when I leave her with a sitter. She saves all the bad stuff for when she's home with me!

Sue: I also vote for Hazel. I actually mentioned that name to DH for this baby, I really love it! He actually kind of liked it, but we had family members literally begging us not to use that name. For some reason my mom was really against it. Kind of put a damper on it for us. I'd love to see someone else use it!

And since we're sharing belly pics.... Here I am one day shy of 29 weeks (I'll be 30 weeks this Sunday, how the heck did that happen so fast?!)


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## mckittre

Cindy - I'm sorry it didn't work out this time. Fingers crossed for next time.

Sue - I guess I'm jumping on the bandwagon, because Hazel is my favorite on your list as well. I've always liked that name. And that sucks about the dresser. It's always so hard to get something to AK in the first place, and when it breaks...

We've just FINALLY gotten a new washing machine, after getting one, having it break after 3 uses, way too many calls to Sears customer service who don't understand how anyone could be totally out of reach of a service person, tying it to the top of a friend's car going over on the ferry and up the peninsula because Sears couldn't help us, having them look at it just to say it's broken, having a new one show up in Kenai, having Sears again totally fail to help us transporting the darn thing, and paying two different companies to get it back to Seldovia. It's sitting outside in plastic wrap right at this moment. It better work.

Starling - I know a little Holden about the age of our kids. I've never met a Hawksley or Sollis. I think I like Hawksley best, and really like Hawk as a nickname.

Everr - Good luck on the move! I was just realizing I've never really moved towns as an adult. Moving after college isn't quite the same thing, then I switched apartments a few times, and then ended up here after a year of walking, which isn't exactly a normal move either.

I guess Katmai's picked up on the "subsistence" theme of the summer, because he's constantly playing pretend games revolving around fishing, farming/gardening, and cooking, and constantly bringing us the pretend food created from these efforts.

Lituya has finally achieved mobility, with a funny sort of half-scooch half-crawl that can slowly get her across the floor.  She wants nothing better than to get to her brother's puzzles and block towers. My role as a sibling referee has just cranked up a few notches.


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## justKate

Erin, what a nightmare! Hopefully this will be the end of your washer troubles. That sort of thing enrages me. I don't think I will enjoy the refereeing part of parenting one bit. Of course L is so little that she's not being intentionally bothersome, but I remember the annoyance of a sibling from my childhood--not fun. At least K is playing more independently now.

Cindy, I'm so sorry this wasn't it for you--I had really high hopes. I know the doc sort of warned you that it might not work, but I keep hoping....







Lots of sticky baby vibes for next cycle.







Have to say your preschool sounds really great. In some ways I wish we were in a more, ah, progressive area so that there would be more reasonable options for Aubs. In other ways I like that its sort of rural. One thing that bugs me about this place is all of the "real" gymnastic classes for toddlers exclude the parents from practice. No way am I sending my 2 year old in a leotard into a gymnastics class alone. Guess I need to expand the geo area of my search.

Mal, your belly is so much bigger than last time I saw a pic! Yay baby! It IS hard to believe Nov will be here so soon. So speaking of childcare--I don't know if i posted about this before, but Aubs doesn't really play with other kids at daycare. She just plays alongside them, or walks around, or sits on a teacher's lap and observes. Not really what I expected, since she's so wild elsewhere. Maybe it's because she's the youngest child there? The 2.5 and 3 yo classes are together for the summer. Anything I can do to encourage her to play with the other kids?


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## Mal85

Kate, that's totally normal play for a 2 year old. At this age, they do more of what's called parallel play, play alongside each other, watching each other play and mimicking how older kids play. It's like practice for real play. In the 3 year old range you start to see more cooperative play.


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## Everrgreen

Kate - I agree, that sounds normal. When I've taken R to public play centres or the park he always just does his own thing. Like Mal said, he will watch others and maybe even mimick what they are doing but he's not really playing *with* them just beside them. And his make believe play is pretty minimal - ex. a toy is eating dinner or his baby is sick and needs to go to sleep, and that's it, it doesn't last long and then he's moving on to something else. Most of his play involves finding something to get into that is no farther than 5 feet away from me.

mckittre/AK - I feel for you both having to have everything shipped! I actually worked at Sears call centre once and I remember during training they gave examples of the costs to ship things to northern Canada and it was so expensive. And the trainer just said that people living up north were used to it!

Mal/AK - Love the belly pics! It's going to be so soon!! Eek!! And AK, the pic of Fiona is awesome - I wish I could get R to eat beans like that! I have to hide them in quesadillas 

I do think R will do ok with his daycare adjustment.. hopefully.. He seems really excited about it. The other thing is my mom will be doing 3 of the drops offs every week so that might make it easier. And I get to do 4 of the pick ups so I'll be the big hero. Or he won't want to leave and I'll be the ruiner of fun lol!

This is my 4th move (changing cities too!) since R was born. So R has had 5 different homes in his life plus a resort we stayed at for about 6 weeks when R was 2-3 months old (we had to move for my ex's job but hadn't found a house yet). Hopefully this will be it for a while! At least 2 years anyway and if I'm able to get a job in this town after school than we will stay even longer. I haven't lived in the same place for more than 2 years since I lived with my parents. Life has been chaotic! Or maybe I'm just a bit of a nomad.


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## mckittre

Kate - Katmai doesn't really play with other kids yet either. He's often kind of quiet around them actually, though he's a total chatterbox at home, and fairly talkative with adults.

Sibling refereeing is kind of hard, particularly because Katmai can't really understand why the baby can't follow the same rules as he does. He can't take away her toys, but if he wants his to be safe, he needs to move them out of her reach. He can't make loud high-pitched shrieks indoors, but we can't stop the baby from shrieking, etc... On the plus side, they can be really sweet at times. The other day in the bike trailer Katmai sang "Twinkle Twinkle" for Lituya because she was crying and needed to sleep. He brings her toys (if only to head off her playing with his other toys). And when he wants to play with her, he can always make her laugh.

Katmai's quote of the day - deciding to discuss the proper use of pronouns with me: "She is Kim and he is Bjorn. If I say "he is Kim and she is Bjorn" then it will be bad."


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## Thursday Girl

yep, parallel play is normal. June only actually PLAYS with one kid her age and they are together a LOT.

so my sister is trying to get a loan to buy a house that would pretty much be ours we just can't get a loan. working out the details, but when we are in a position to buy we would then buy it from her. The condition is we get a house with a MIL suite so my mom can live there she hasn't been able to financially take care of herself and now her health just keeps getting worse. We have always known my mom would end up living with us and my sister has known that she would have to get a place for mom to live. So seeing as our house is too small and she is going to be homeless soon but we can't get a loan and my sister can...that's were we are headed. I LOVE that we are all working together to solve this. PLUS I am so excited to be leaving this house that is falling down around us and I am sure NOT safe for the kids. Cross your fingers that everything works out.

I love your pictures Starling, they are amazingly beautiful!

Mal and Sue I love your bellies! and Sue Fiona is so dang cute!!

Cindy I am sorry about the BFN, I am sending you all the fertile thoughts I can and crossing my fingers for a positive next month.


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## AKislandgirl

*Everr:* beans are probably her favorite food! Hope the move goes great tomorrow!

*Courtney:* Sounds like you guys have a great family solution! I hope everything works out! Good luck on the house hunt!

*Erin:* I love hearing how our lo's work out language. He's doing a great job!

Funny conversation with Fiona the other day...

The other day I had just gotten out of the shower when Fiona walked in. This is the conversation we had...

"Is that your baby coming out!?"

"No honey, she's not ready yet, that is my pubic hair."

"Oh, pubic hair."

"Baby sister will come out your body?"

"Yes, Mama will push hard and she'll come out through my vagina and past my vulva"

"oooh!" pointing to a mole on my upper leg- "is that your other nipple Mama?"

"No honey that is called a mole" trying hard not to laugh at her!


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## Vegan Princess

I just dropped Makenna at her first preschool day. She was really shy about being in circle time and it was a bit hard to leave her. I stayed for over an hour. I did peek through the window on the door after and she started to cry after a few minutes. I thought about going back in but her best friend's mom, who she's known her entire life, is the mom helping today and I know she will be fine with her. I have left Makenna with her for babysitting. Also, circle time was about over and I think she was just extra shy in circle. She always gets shy in circles. I'm hoping she enjoys the rest of her time after circle! I'm a bit sad though. She usually never cries when I leave anymore so I feel bad. I will be there the whole time on day 2.

Sue: So funny!!! I love it! Last night while in the bath, Makenna put the wash cloth on her tummy and said "I have a baby in my tummy. First you put this here (the wash cloth) and then you have a baby!". I have no idea where that came from! My guess it that she got it from her other little best friend who's mom is going to have a baby in a few months. Makenna has always thought babies come out of your belly button. I have yet to correct her.

Everr: Good luck with your move!!!! I hope all goes smoothly. So many exciting things coming up for you and R.

Courtney: That solution sounds grand! I so hope it works out for all of you. I always sort of feel like I am going to have to take care of my mom one day. I have a lot of stress about it - especially now that I am staying home and not working. I was able to help her a lot while working. Now we are so strapped! I do pay a couple of her bills and could help in a pinch if I had to out of savings, but I do miss being able to buy her nice things just because and make her life a little easier.

Erin: During babysitting co-op, I notice most kids do their own thing. They interact to run around and be silly together but they don't play with the same toys together or do imaginitive play together yet. I am very much looking forward to true imaginitive play. Makenna has the beginnings of it but nothing like what I know is coming.

Thanks for the kind words. The nurse said it was an early miscarriage, not the trigger. That at least means the IUI did work to get me pregnant. So hopefully we won't ever have to do IVF. Can't do another IUI this month though bc we are headed to Indiana next weekend to visit my inlaws. We'll be back in town too late for an IUI. Might just take the entire month off of trying. We'll see.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... So sorry that this wasn't your sticky-baby-month. That just sucks. Still sending you sticky-baby-vibes, even if you're taking the month off.







And congrats on M's first day at preschool! She'll likely have lots to say when you see her after. And cool that you'll be there the whole day tomorrow. Have fun!

*Courtney* ... That sounds like an awesome plan! What will happen to the place you're in now? Sell? Rent? Remind me of the details?

*Erin* ... That is quite the Sears drama!

*JustKate* ... I couldn't leave E in a gym class by herself at two either. I think that's a ridiculous expectation! Having a placenta brain moment ... where are you guys at for baby names?

*Mal* ... What a gorgeous belly! I can't believe you're so far along!

*Sue* ... How on EARTH did our pregnancies progress this fast! It's nuts!

*Ever* ... How's the packing going? All set?

Thanks for all the comments on the photos, *everyone*! I'm very happy with them ... especially because they were free! Whoohoo for free! And thanks for the comments on our name conundrum. I think we're back to Hawksley Sollis. Perhaps we just needed to let ourselves explore a bit. This kid will certainly not be named before he gets here though. And *Sue* ... another vote for Hazel! Love, love, love, love, love the name. It would've been top of the list for this baby had he been a girl, but a good friend beat me to it.

*Parallel play*: E does parallel play with her peers, but if an older child (in the co-op playground, say) engages her, she'll play along. Like Juniper, E does have one very close buddy and they do play lots of funny imaginary games together. When E gets to the park or family drop in, she doesn't play at all. Just sits back and watches.

*Toddler conversations:* I have one that made me weepy. Backstory: Ages ago (Three months? More?) we read a book about a baby coming in the autumn when the leaves fall. I told her that's when our baby will be coming too.

A few days ago, E and I were sitting in the park, having a picnic, when the wind kicked up and leaves started falling from the nearby trees.

E pointed and yelled, "Look, Mama! The leaves are falling! That means the baby is coming soon!"

I choked back tears and said, "You're right, the baby is coming soon."

Esme patted my belly and leaned in close and hollered to my navel, "Know what, Baby? The leaves are falling! Time to come out!"

I said, "It might be a little while longer, but soon."

E thought about this for a bit, then said, "When the baby comes, he'll come out your vagina?"

Me: "Yep."

E: "And you'll make lots and lots of noise?"

Me: "Yep. It feels better to make noise when you have a baby."

E: "And I'll do this?" She put her hands over her ears. "Or, I know! You can put on the Mamma Mia song really loud then I won't hear you. Okay?"

So perhaps I shall be birthing to the disco leanings of ABBA.

*AFM*: My pre-e blood panel looked okay to me, but haven't heard from the midwife about her interpretations. Still no swelling, not seeing floaters, and my bp is fine. But then, I felt fine last time too. Still cautiously looking forward to a homebirth. Time will tell.

We went out of town for a couple of days to Whistler. E was delighted because we rode the gondola to the top of the mountain where there is still snow, saw two bears eating in a field of clover, trip-trapped over my favourite rickety bridge looking for trolls and billy goats, swam for hours in the pool with both parents, and had ice cream ... twice! She barfed in the car on the way home this morning though, which got everywhere. As for potty training, no accidents in the car or on any of our field trips ... and she wore underwear the whole time. She always tells us when she has to go. It's fabulous! I can enjoy a slightly lighter bag for what ... another 4-6 weeks? Then I have to go back to lugging the cloth diapers around. Funny.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: What a lovely trip away! I love the lighter bag.  I'm so proud of little E. She's done beautifully! What a cute conversation. It made me tear up a little and I'm not even the one expecting the baby. LOL. Just so precious and so amazing how they file these things away in their minds for when they need them.

So I texted my friend to ask how M was doing and around noon she said she thought she was done. I left at 10:15. I ended up taking her home at 12:30, instead of 1 - but pretty much all the kids were tired out and going home early too. Turns out she didn't cry long at all after I left and was fine until lunch. But she was pretty defiant and didn't want to stay at the table during lunch or eat a whole lot. So I guess she kept saying "no" when they told her to sit down. Personally, I don't think this is a big deal. We'll talk about it and she'll learn (maybe). But mostly I don't think kids this age should have to sit and pay attention if they don't want to. The nice thing about this being our school is that we can be flexible with the program. My friend that stayed today said she thinks we need to shorten up the times of each activity bc it is too long to expect them to stay in one spot. Personally, I prefer a total play based program where they do whatever they want all day. No having to sit in a chair if they don't want to. And that is what the schools I'm looking at for next year are based on. I don't expect this preschool to be the end all be all and a total play based program likely wouldn't work in our space. Anyway, the important thing is, Makenna said she really had fun. She said she was fine with me leaving and that mommy Carleigh made her feel better when I left. I think she had fun and none of the things that my friend thought were big issues even stood out in her mind to tell me. I asked repeatedly. She likes her teacher and she is in love with the balloon she got to take home. And she asked to go back tomorrow, not next week. LOL.


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## justKate

I agree, it is hard to sit down when you don't want to. Maybe the kids need an alternative activity on hand?

Interestingly, I just got my records from Aubs' birth in the mail today. So strange to read through it, and of course I cried when it got to the section, but it was good to read. I did have a good suture, and the official reason for the section was "full dilation, arrest of descent, fetal tachycardia." Hmm. Off to the VBAC forum to learn, I guess.


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *starling&diesel*
> 
> *Sue* ... How on EARTH did our pregnancies progress this fast! It's nuts!
> 
> *Toddler conversations:* I have one that made me weepy. Backstory: Ages ago (Three months? More?) we read a book about a baby coming in the autumn when the leaves fall. I told her that's when our baby will be coming too.
> 
> A few days ago, E and I were sitting in the park, having a picnic, when the wind kicked up and leaves started falling from the nearby trees.
> 
> E pointed and yelled, "Look, Mama! The leaves are falling! That means the baby is coming soon!"
> 
> I choked back tears and said, "You're right, the baby is coming soon."
> 
> Esme patted my belly and leaned in close and hollered to my navel, "Know what, Baby? The leaves are falling! Time to come out!"
> 
> I said, "It might be a little while longer, but soon."
> 
> E thought about this for a bit, then said, "When the baby comes, he'll come out your vagina?"
> 
> Me: "Yep."
> 
> E: "And you'll make lots and lots of noise?"
> 
> Me: "Yep. It feels better to make noise when you have a baby."
> 
> E: "And I'll do this?" She put her hands over her ears. "Or, I know! You can put on the Mamma Mia song really loud then I won't hear you. Okay?"
> 
> So perhaps I shall be birthing to the disco leanings of ABBA.


Agreed that things are going way fast!

Love this story. Made me laugh at loud at the thought of your birthing with Abba playing loud to drown out your yelling! 

Kate: I hope you are finding some peace is reading over the details. Big hugs mama!


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## AKislandgirl

Hi Ladies,

I'm having one of those days. Fiona and I seem to be clashing so much lately and it frustrates me to no end. Part of my frustration is my own reaction to her normal 2 year old behavior. I'm sure part of it is because I'm tired and so very pregnant but I don't like how I'm reacting. I'm totally short with her and just not responding with love and patience. There is no doubt that she is very aware about changes coming to our life. She is a girl who is sensitive to change and her responses are intense. That is who she has always been so I don't know why it bothers me so much more right now.

I'm also really frustrated with nursing right now. My boobs are sensitive and sometimes I feel like she's a little pirana coming at me! She doesn't nurse often or for long but ever since my colostrum came it she wants it more and more and is so mad when I tell her to unlatch. She won't physically unlatch half the time and I have to pry her mouth open with my finger. I really don't know what I'm going to do when the baby is born and she wants to nurse all the time. I really am wishing I had weaned her months ago but I don't even know how. She is definitely very much attached to nursing at bed time (nights and nap) and when she wakes up.

Anyway... I could use a hug!

Thanks!


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## Vegan Princess

Hugs for you Sue!! I think in the end, nursing still will make the transition that much easier on Fiona! It will definitely be worth it once you get the kinks worked out. Perhaps you need to set limits right now though as to when and how long - before she starts. I have my days when I don't like my responses. It helps me to channel Starling. LOL.

I keep meaning to post about gymnastics and keep forgetting, until now. We did a trial class a week ago. It was nice bc daddy got to be the parent to do it with her - they both loved that. I got to watch. Makenna had fun and says she is a big girl now bc she can do gymanstics all by herself. LOL. I wasn't too impressed with the class though. This was the end of the session and there really wasn't any instruction going on. So rather than pay $230 for a 10 week session of 45 minute classes, I think we will do their free play time that is $10 for 1.5 hours. And when she is older and they actually teach something, we will revisit the idea of classes. And I would definitely be leery of a class that insists you leave them at this age!

So Makenna came down with a 103 fever last night. She's doing pretty well today on her fever meds. Her 2 friends from baby sitting co-op each had this last week. I am hoping DH and I don't get it. It seems to have a 3 day incubation period and we are due to fly to Indiana and visit in-laws in 3.5 days. I'm a bit bummed we missed the very last day of babysitting co-op today and tomorrow we have to stay home from preschool. It was my day to stay and I was really looking forward. Oh well, there's always next week. I've got cabin fever from being home all day with my sickie.

Cindy


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## justKate

Ugh, I know what you mean.







Sometimes I hate the way I respond to Aubs. Like going up the stairs. "Baby, please go upstairs. Please go. Go. C'mon, let's go do X. Aubs, this is heavy, please go now. Go. GO!" Really? Why am I in such a hurry? But I keep doing it.

Re. nursing, that would be majorly stressful to me. I stopped at 18 mos because I just couldn't take it anymore--the wiggling, the chewing, the hitting, the drama. It was becoming more of an aggravation to me than a benefit to either of us. I know a lot of the mamas in the Breastfeeding Beyond Infancy forum sort of treat it as a balance--like you'll know when its time to stop, and you don't have to be a martyr. But I can also see how it would be really difficult to stop now. I heard there was a cute stopping-breastfeeding book--the story line goes something like "when sister arrives, she'll need milk, and you're a big girl so you get to do things like eat strawberries!" And goes through all of the things that big sister gets to do now that she's big. I hope you find a solution that works for you both!


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## starling&diesel

Oh, *Sue* ... Here's a hug from me and my imaginary friends:










I know what you mean about the nursing. Do your nipples hurt more just recently? Mine do! E is the exact same way, and is an absolutely nursing fiend now that my colostrum is in now too. It used to be when she had fallen to sleep I could say, "Okay, night-night num-nums ... 1,2,3" and she would pop off. Not so any more! She's even a piranha in her sleep too! I've had to pry her off too! Yeesh!

As for being short with Fi ... I certainly have my moments these days. I've been giving E more responsibility and really pumping up the baby's arrival and talking up the whole Big Girl aspect of it all. Part of me feels crappy about that, being that I'm hurrying along her baby years, but the other part of me really needs her help and needs her to start to do more things for herself. Things like letting the cat out and in by herself, setting the table, choosing her clothes and getting dressed by herself, that sort of thing.

The exhaustion of late pregnancy really does a mama's head in. Remember with our first pregnancies how we could lie down whenever we wanted and stay nice and rested and peaceful and all that other crap? Hahaha. Not so this time, my friend, not so.

One thing that I'm doing recently is making 'yes' my default answer. I do this at work all the time, especially with difficult patients. So I try to say 'yes' to everything she asks, no matter the request. It means lots of conditions or things that need to be done before the request is met, but at least I'm staying officially positive, even if I'm not feeling particular positive.

ETA: I meant to also say that I'm a better mama if we're out of the house as much as possible, so that she's getting stimulated by people other than me, enjoying activities organized and cleaned up by people other than me, playing at parks in ways that don't require my constant participation, meeting new people, seeing new things, and isn't stuck at home with a mama who'd rather turn on the TV (which we've managed to keep off since the first weeks of this pregnancy) and boss her around. And my best mama friend who is now 36 weeks to my 34 has us over so that she and I can whine and commiserate while the kids entertain themselves and get away with a lot more guff than they normally would. Even if it takes us two hours to walk to the dog park (three blocks away) and back because I'm dragging my butt, I'd rather that than be home. My dp thinks that I have all this incredible late-term energy, when really, I'm just too lazy to stay home and come up with interesting things for E and I to do. Ha!

*Cindy* ... Thanks for posting your experience with gymnastics. I'm taking it to heart! I was considering putting E into gymnastics this fall, but with the baby coming, I think I'll stick to my instincts and keep her out of formal classes until she turns three and can get more out of the class, hence more bang for our buck.

Hopefully M is feeling better now? Poor thing. Was she very lethargic?


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## mckittre

Sue - I definitely limited nursing quite a bit during my pregnancy. Actually at the very end I did let him nurse a ton, because I was hoping the nipple stimulation would bring on labor (didn't seem to help at all). When my milk came in, he thought nursing with his sister was the greatest thing ever, and I was worried I'd have two kids latched on 24/7. Luckily, the novelty of nursing with his sister wore off in the first week or two, and he went back to nursing a couple times a day for not much time. Which is what he does now (usually at bedtime, occasionally in the morning). He could probably give it up now without too much trouble, but I haven't pushed it.

And I am absolutely impatient with Katmai more than I should be, even not pregnant! I find it especially hard not to try to hurry him along everywhere we go. And it's hard to try to be kind and understanding of the emotions he's feeling when he's mean to his sister. And potty training.... I think we're all like that.

Cindy - Hope Makenna's better soon!


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## Everrgreen

I'm not pregnant and I still have been having a hard time being patient with R and I am also so done with nursing. I yell way too much. My biggest pet peeve is the clingy-ness most of my yelling involves telling him to go play for a while instead of hanging off me. And nursing, oh my god, I would wean him this minute if he didn't have so many big changes going on. Maybe this fall once he's settled into daycare we will wean. And I hate to say it but I am soooo looking forward to him being in daycare. He drives me crazy and I need a break from him. It will be such a relief. And hopefully make me a better parent who yells less!

Re activities: We are also waiting until R is 3. Partly because I haven't found anything I like/can afford but also because he will be so busy in group activities all week that I think evenings and weekends will better spent as down-time. I will probably take him myself to do different activities just the 2 of us (I want to take him skating). Once he's 3 I think we'll do swimming lessons and next summer I want to do soccer!

So - we are all moved into our new apartment! I love it and I love the neighbourhood. Everyone seems so nice and there's a lot of families and there is a crunchy vibe which is awesome. I still have some organizing to do (mostly just clothes) but overall it's mostly set up. Today we are taking a break from all the moving stuff and going to the zoo! But I do have a long to do list that needs to be done this week including taking R to meet the daycare staff in his room!


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## Mal85

Sue, we've been having a lot of the exact same issues around here. Owyn has been doing really well with going to a sitter and seems to have a lot of fun, but when she's home with me it's been a nightmare. I know it's totally normal for her to let out all her frustrations when she's with Mommy, but it's not making my life very easy right now! I have been trying to baby sit for a couple of people on my days off. I thought it would actually make things slightly normal for her since other kids being here has always been a part of her life, but it's not going well. DH and I both decided it's best for me not to baby sit at all anymore. We could use the extra money, but it's not worth it to spend my days off fighting with her all day long.

I agree with Starling, the best thing for us is to get out of the house as much as possible. That's something I can't do with other kiddos here. When we're home, I tend to get more distracted trying to get too much done. Keeping up with the house, working on stuff for work, etc. She's getting so much stimulation at the sitter's house and to come home to boring old Mommy... well, she's frustrated and confused and bored. And I'm tired and more irritable, so I'm also yelling more than I would like. I do think later "Why was that such a big deal to me anyway?" I'm really trying to think about my responses more. It's really easy to just say no all the time because I'm too tired to deal with it. But really, the fight that comes with it is more exhausting.

Right now, I'm just trying to focus on staying positive until I'm done with work. I have about 9 weeks left, then I get two whole months home with her and the new baby. And I love that it's during all the holidays, what a perfect time to be focused on my new little family!


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## Vegan Princess

I feel like overall we've been doing much better later with her annoying me or at least with me tempering my reaction. I have been working really hard not to yell or lose my patience. I even pray about it at night. (I say nightly prayers but that's about the extent of my religion) My moms talks to me all the time about not being the mom that yells at my kids (not bc she hears me yelling, just bc she like to pass on things she wishes she knew as a young mom). I do notice that when I speak calmly and explain things to M that she gets it and calms down instead of me yelling and things escalating. I also admire my DH. He never ever ever loses his patience with M or raises his voice at all. I know he spends SOOOO much less time with her, but it's just not in his nature. If she is crying and resisting, he turns everything into a fun game. If I do yell in front of him, I feel extra guilty. So that helps me try harder too. I know none of us want to yell, etc. It's hard - these little people are the absolute most precious thing in the world to us - we want to protect them from hurt - yet they pull our strings like no one else can - and so we can easily yell at them and hurt their feelings.

I'm wondering if anyone has advice on dealing with defiance. Like I tell Makenna not to do something - and I repeat it over and over and over while she keeps doing it. Things that are not ok - like pulling the cat tail or hitting the cat or pouring milk all over the floor. I do find myself raising my voice in these situations, if only to get her attention. Time outs don't really help. She just sits there and tells me she will still do X again later. I feel like she doesn't take me seriously. I guess that is what bothered the preschool people last week. Probably not so much that she didn't stay in her seat but that blantantly wouldn't listen to them when they told her to sit down. (the schedule has been changed to include more play time and more stand up and wiggle time between activities now by the way)

Makenna seems to be better today. She did have a fever in the night (didn't temp but she was hot). Meds have worn off and she says she feels better and she feels cool. Now I'm just hoping DH and I don't catch it!


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks Mamas! I knew I could count on you to lift me up! So many of you put into words (that I couldn't come up with) exactly how I was feeling. Today is a new day and I'm determined to make the most of it. Fiona and I are going to make some zucchini bread and then head to a local trail. I've been avoiding heading out on walks on rainy days because my rain gear doesn't fit (ha!) but I know that she thrives with that outside time so we're going for it. With luck she'll be tired from our morning and not fight her nap. Then this afternoon we'll head out again to the library or some inside (non rainy!) place. She went to bed at a decent time and slept in a bit which is always a nice start to our day... no fun when she wakes up before she's had enough sleep!

Re nursing: We already do have limits for nursing... which is what ticks her off! We were doing well with saying all done nu-nu 1 2 3 and she'd unlatch. When I had no milk it was like she knew she didn't have to give up anything. She'd often unlatch first anyway and say nu-nu empty. Now that she is getting colostrum though she's like a little junkie and wants it more and more! But I'm doing my best to stick to just before and after naps and bedtime with maybe one other time. I don't let her nurse for more then a few minutes either. I think when the baby is born I'll give her a couple of weeks of nursing a couple more times then that and then work back to just around bedtime. Waking up seems like the most important to her so those will probably be the last to go. I do think once she is 3 we'll work on weaning for good. I think the weaning fairy may have to pay a visit when she does with something big like a new balance bike!  And yes, my nipples are sore again which is a huge part of my aggravation over this!

Cindy: Sorry to hear that M was sick but glad she is on the mend now. It was good to hear your perspective about gymnastics. I think we'll try Fiona in a dance class this winter. They do "music and movement" at the dance studios for kids 3-4 here. I'm hoping I can pop in to watch a class with her or do a trial before paying though! Have fun on your trip and stay healthy!

Erin: Are you packed and ready to go? When do you leave for the glacier? Remind me how long you'll be there.

Everr: So glad to hear that you are moved in! I think taking a day off for the zoo sounds perfect! Moving is such a huge effort but so exciting! I really can't wait for that time to come for us. We've been talking a lot about our target area and have decided to expand our search... DH likes the idea of getting back into fresh water fisheries. I just want to find a place where we can have more land and feel like we can really fit in with the community. Cool that your area has a bit of a crunchy vibe. I'd like that!

Mal: How is work? Do you feel like you have your head above water yet? I'm sure the kids (and parents!) love you! I like the vision of you babymooning over the holidays. It sounds so warm and cozy!

I'm getting so excited about this baby coming! I've been doing hypnobabies (A home version) which really has me thinking about the birth a lot. And the weeks are cruising by so fast. I am a bit unsettled about some unfinished things around here but I also know that baby won't care if her clothes are in a plastic tub instead of a dresser! I've been thinking about what she should wear home from the hospital and I pulled out all the cold weather gear to make sure we had a good fleece suit to keep her warm this winter. Fiona and I spent a long time looking at pictures and videos of her the other day. It was really fun! She kept saying "That's me! I was a tiny baby and now I growed!" She loved the videos the best and laughed at her baby squeaks! DH and I were cracking up over a video of her at just about 14 months or so. I was trying to get her dressed... "No, me!" with lots of yelling and protesting. She is a girl who has always wanted to do it her way and her self! Maybe this baby will let me dress her and pick out her clothes for longer then a year!  I hear those kinds of kids exist!


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## Mal85

Glad you guys are having a better day, Sue. Tell Fiona to send some of those sleeping in vibes Owyn's way! She has been waking up before the sun comes up the last 2 weeks. I'm not liking this new habit. She's never been one to get up any earlier than 7:30 or so and would sleep a little later on the weekends when we stay up later. I have to wake her earlier on the days I work though and I'm sure that's what's throwing her off.

Work is going okay. This is our second full week of school and I have a holiday this weekend, so I get 4 days off in a row! I still can't decide how much I like it. I enjoy the teaching part as much as I knew I would. I find I'm actually a lot more patient with my students than I sometimes am with Owyn, my poor girl! It's the work outside of teaching that gets to me. I should have prepared myself more for that, it stresses me out more than I like. There's just so much prep work I have to do for every school day, I don't really feel like my days off are mine. We've been looking at our budget a lot lately with my time off work coming up. Things are going well right now, but I am seriously concerned about when we start paying for two in daycare after the first of the year. I just don't know if it's worth it to be working when half of my pay is going to a baby sitter. And, the bad thing is, contracts are offered up in February. Which doesn't give us much time to figure out finances with two in daycare before I have to make a final decision about returning for another year. Ugh... I'm just going with it for now and we'll see how things end up. I am enjoying my students though, so that certainly helps!

We considered putting Owyn into a tots dance class this year. I took a look at what she'd be learning though, and I think she'd do better with it if we wait and try it next year. I wish our town offered more things for kids her age.


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## Vegan Princess

I love the dance idea too. Makenna loves performers and singing and dancing - though generally not in front of other people. 

Makenna has been sleeping in her own bed more! She actually slept in it until 7:30 this morning and 6am the other night. We never tell her to sleep in her big girl bed. Just ask each night where she wants to sleep - her bed or ours. She almost always chooses ours. I sleep so well with space to move. But I am in NO hurry to push her out of the bed. I want to savor her babyhood as much as possible since a new baby isn't coming easily. But it is exciting that she's been choosing this on her own. Though I wouldn't be surprised if she abandons the idea again for a while.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Mal - Will the prep work go down at all with time? After you get in the groove more, or at least next year, when you're repeating some activities from this year? It seems like if you love the teaching part, it would be nice to make it work.

Sue - Glad you're feeling better about things.

Cindy - Yay for the big girl bed. It's fun when they take "growing up" steps without getting pushed.

Activities: There isn't anything real formal here, but we've semi-promised to teach aikido to some of the little kids in town this winter, so we'll probably give it a shot, and see how Katmai does with it. Probably a lot of what we'll do will be the rolls and falls with the littlest ones, closer to a movement or gymnastics type thing than to most martial arts.

Exciting news today: My book proposal got accepted! So now I'm going to be writing another book with the same publisher that did my first one on my year-long expedition. This one will be a mix between our life in Seldovia and our adventures with kids (including the one we're about to take off on). So yeah, I'd better get cracking on that preparation.... I did bike into town today (downhill) with 2 kids and 75lbs of hiking food in the bike trailer, and got it all mailed off to the town we'll start in. My husband made rainpants. It's coming, but will be kind of a panic.


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## Vegan Princess

Erin: Congratulations! That's great news! Hurry up and write that book because I can't wait to read it! You have such an adventurous, exciting life! 

Haha so I jinxed myself about the big girl bed. She chose mama's bed last night. 

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Congratulations Erin! Can't wait to read it!!

Cindy, is the big girl bed in your room or in her own? That is so awesome that at least part of the time she chooses to sleep there! Fiona sleeps in a twin next to our bed (no seperation- just squished together) and I love having the extra space for sleep. Especially with my assortment of "keep me comfortable" pillows these days! She usually crawls in with me after 7 and sleeps for another hour. Hard to say when she'll ever move to her own room- probably when we move because there isn't a lot of room for a bed in our other room.

Mal: I hope that things start to get easier. I agree with Erin, maybe it won't seem like so much after this year of initial planning.


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Her big girl bed is in her own room. I'm sure she'd sleep in it more if it were in our room. We did ponder doing that. And maybe we will if we really want her out of our bed but I think we decided to just keep our arrangements how they are for now.

M is napping! First time in a while. Probably never going to go to sleep tonight. But she woke up early and played at the park for 2 hours. Today is my wedding anniversary so we want to be able to go out to eat - there is no way she'd make it without a nap, so I'm glad she actually obliged and is taking one!

Off to visit inlaws tomorrow for a long weekend away. Makenna is excited to sleep with her cousin who is 9 months older (and sleeps in a double bed). DH and I are looking forward to maybe having a few nights with no kid in the bed so we can keep working on #2! ;-)

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Erin* ... wonderful news about your next book! Can't wait to read it too!

*Cindy* ... Happy Anniversary! And good luck with the baby project goings on.


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## justKate

Cindy, we started with letting Aubs choose which bed, too. Her toddler bed is still in our room, and she picks "my little bed" about 95% of the time these days. She's such a violent sleeper that if she goes to sleep in ours, we have to move her before we can sleep. If she wakes up, she gets her pillow and climbs in with us. We make a game of "can mommy sleep in the little bed?" "no! mommy is too big!" "can the bear sleep in the little bed? scoot over bear!" And then every morning she gets in bed with me for cuddles.

Are you doing IUI this cycle or skipping this one since you'll be out of town? How neat that she has a close cousin. So far it doesn't seem like Aubs will have any near her--no first cousins on my side and the youngest one on DH's side is almost 9. There's something special about cousins that isn't quite the same as siblings or friends.

Sue, I have no idea when we'll move Aubs bed into "her" room. I'm ready, but DH doesn't like the idea of her having to walk from her room to ours if she needs us...and what if there was a fire, etc. So I'm content with her staying for a while.  I guess when the new baby is big enough for a toddler bed, she'll get a bigger one, so at least by then! She'll be...geez...4.5?! For now I guess the plan will be for "her" room to be the dressing room for both Aubs and the new one.

Erin, congrats on the, err, acceptance! How much time will you have to finish it? Or does it not work that way? The biking to town makes you sound like superwoman, btw! I don't even know if I can ride a bike anymore.

Mal, I agree, it seems like the work should go down once you've done it once. You shouldn't have the same kids two years in a row, right? So you don't need to be totally creative every year. Anything that we can help with?

Ever, hooray for getting settled!

I'm trying to remember which baby will be here first--I think it was Starling, Sue, then Mal? Then Courtney and me not 'till April...seems so far off!

As for us, I am officially sick and alone today, in a good way. Well the sick part isn't good, but that happens. Apparently regularly again, now that Aubs is going to preschool. This morning I met my parents and gave them my car and Aubs, and she's going to stay with them for two nights. TWO NIGHTS. This will be my first overnight without her. I know its sort of pathetic, but it's a first for me! My parents agreed to skype with me tomorrow if I need it.







And the timing is actually good, since I'm coughing and feeling lousy--i'll be able to lay around and rest, which is nice.

Nearly nine weeks with the new one, and I haven't told anyone but my best friend IRL. Feeling a lot less nauseated than the last couple of weeks, which is good. Nothing big coming up in the next month or so, thankfully. I need to start thinking about Christmas, if I'm going to sew anything. I hope things stay peaceful for a little while!


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## Mal85

Yay on the book, Erin! How exciting. You really are my hero!

Cindy: Owyn has been back to taking naps most of the time again. She can usually go about two days in a row without a nap, then she'll need one a few days in a row. It's like it just catches up with her after a couple of days and she needs that extra sleep. Happy anniversary and have fun on your trip! I'm so looking forward to this long week!

As for planning, it is slowly but surely getting easier. Next year will be the same though because they get a new preschool curriculum every year. Same company but the lessons are just slightly different year to year. I'll have to tweak all the lessons I write this year to go along with it. I'm really keeping an open mind about the whole thing. I expect it to be easy at times, hard at other times. It'll probably be really hard to go back after having the baby... just how hard it is will probably be the deciding factor in whether or not I go back. I can deal with the planning... it's the missing my babies part that will get me. We'll see.

I'm wondering if I should get Owyn's twin size bed up... She's been in a toddler bed since shortly after her second birthday and has done great with it. But lately, she's in the habit of 1) waking up once or twice in the middle of the night. She'll climb in bed with us and DH takes her back to her bed once she goes back to sleep. But by then, I'm awake and it's hard to get back to sleep. And I'm hugely pregnant and uncomfortable anyway... the combination of the two is making for a really bad night's sleep for me. And 2) she's waking up for the day before the sun even comes up! I know her schedule is thrown off with me working, but this sucks! I'm more worried about when we have the new baby in bed with us. She insists on laying in-between us, on my side, with her face literally smashed into mine to get back to sleep. If she had her twin bed, DH could lay down in bed with her when she wakes up instead of her coming into bed with us. Not sure if he'd be okay with that since he'd probably end up falling asleep and staying there the rest of the night... What do you guys think?


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: No IUI this month. I would need to do my monitoring ultrasound this weekend while we are out of town so it doesn't work. But they are fine with me still taking all my meds this month (femara for ovulation and then prometrium after O, no trigger shot though). So we definitely still have a shot at conceiving - as long as we can get at least 1 BD session in while away! We get home on day 11 of my cycle and I O'd on day 11 last month. Maybe it will be later this month though. Our odds are much lower without IUI bc of DH's count, but I did conceive 3 times naturally with him. So hopefully the femara will give me 2 eggs again this month like it did last month and our odds will be higher. If not, we'll go back to IUI next month.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Mal* ... I hear you on the sleeping arrangements. E likes to spend her whole night mashed up along my back or mooshed up into my face. On the rare occasions that I can steer her towards DP, she's content to do the same to her. I've been telling her that when the baby comes, we'll put him next to me, then she can be next to DP, and then DP will be in her usual spot. I think she gets it. As for your set-up, I'd definitely get the twin up so that your husband can be more comfortable. I wonder if when our babies com, if there will be some separate beds for DPs and babes for a bit? I have a feeling that might happen here, although both dp and E are deep sleepers. We'll see!

*AFM*: Just got back from the midwife. My bp was way up (for me) at 120/85. Last time it was 95/60. And I'm measuring 38 weeks, and not 34, and baby's head is nearly engaged. So the midwife is ordering another blood panel and requesting an ultrasound. Meh. We'll see what happens. Five more points up on the diastolic and they'd be calling it pre-e for sure, depending on what the blood panel says. I've seen floaters a couple of times since my last mw appointment too. Crap. Fingers crossed! I have a feeling that my dream homebirth is slowly getting rubbed out of existence. Sigh. Oh to be such an advocate for it, yet not manage to have my own. Lame.

*Sue* ... Sorry that you're seeing this in duplicate! Too lazy to rewrite it in an original way, so you get the same version here as the ddc.


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## AKislandgirl

No worries *Starling*! I'll say it again though... crap!

Sleeping is something I'm a bit worried about. Fiona will only let me put her to bed at night. Sometimes its quick and easy and sometimes it takes for-ev-er! She only sometimes stirs in the night. I can usually just recover her and pat her back and she goes out again. Then's there are the times that she doesn't. I guess we can only just wait and see. I've been trying to encourage DH to at least try to put her down but at bedtime she freaks out if he even tucks her in the wrong way. I don't know how this will play out... I think I"m going to leave the house at nap time this weekend and "force" him to have to deal with it. I'm tired of him saying he's going to "start trying to put her down". The time is now Mr!


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## mckittre

Starling - fingers crossed for you!

Sleeping: We successfully transitioned Katmai to going to bed with daddy and sleeping mostly not in our bed before Lituya was born, and I'm glad we did. At first, I would nurse him for a few minutes, and then we'd both lie with him until he fell asleep, to work daddy into the routine. Then I'd leave after nursing, and just dad would be there. Now I nurse him for a minute, get his pjs on, brush his teeth, then send him off with daddy. Daddy lies with him in our bed until he falls asleep. Then we move him into his own bed (right next to ours) where he stays until morning. It used to be that daddy would have to get up once or twice to soothe him back down, but not anymore. The few times that daddy's not home at bedtime, he gets really upset, even though it used to be all me.

However, when I am by myself, it's not too bad to deal with both kids. I nurse the baby and let the toddler curl up behind me to sleep. They've gotten themselves on the same bedtime schedule quite well.


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks for the sleeping idea Erin. I think that will have to be the way we go about this.

We went to our local fair today. Fiona loved it! She kept saying she wanted to ride the horses but I was sure she would chicken out when she got up close to them. I was soo wrong! No hesitation! That girl is such an animal lover. Here she is on her first ride. Watch out Papa, she'll be asking for a horse before you know it! By the way... "My horse Shiloh is so pretty!"


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## Everrgreen

AK - So cute!! She definitely looks like she'll need her own horse 

Re Sleeping: My situation is not the same at all but my mom can get my very attached to the boobies boy to sleep when I'm not there. Mind you, I'm not in the house when she does. So maybe that's the trick? You have to be actually gone so she can get used to it?

Starling - *hugs* I'm sorry that things aren't going well at the moment. I am thinking of you and keeping my fingers crossed that your blood panel looks good. And I think it's awesome that you are an advocate for birth choice, regardless of whether or not you've experienced your personal 'first choice'. Royce was born at home but I had to transfer right after because of retained placenta. It wasn't the relaxing snuggly experience I had hoped for but it's what happened. And I still am a huge advocate for birth choice. Not lame at all.

Mal - You have a lot going on now! I definitely think your work will get easier as you get used to it, tweaking the curriculum will be easier than writing it! It will be hard to leave your new baby though.

mckittre - That's awesome! I will definitely want to read that!

AFM: 2 more sleeps until R's first day of daycare. And my eyes are tearing up now. I'm pretty much on the verge of a meltdown at any given moment. I am not optimistic about it and I keep picturing him crying for me :'( I know eventually he will get used to it but it just feels so wrong. But I need to remain calm and happy because I don't want him to pick up on my emotions. We've talked about it A LOT and I've explained what will happen and what he will do and that he may get sad but his teacher will help him and mama will come back. He is always talking about it and how if he gets sad the teacher will give him a hug and there will be books and games and other kids etc etc. We've read llama llama misses mama a million times. There's nothing more I can do I guess. Just hope for the best.

And my first day of class is on Thursday. I have 2 labs scheduled for Wednesday but they are actually weekly 'field trips' and one of the profs has sent a message saying there are no field trips the first week. The other prof I haven't heard from but I'm assuming it's the same. And the schedule gives no location, no classroom, so I figure if there *is* a field trip that prof will need to send a message to let us know where to meet. I'm also having little panics about school. What if it's harder than I'm expecting? What if I've forgotten how to learn? Agh - I'm building myself into a panic again so I better stop.

Anyway - wish me luck!!


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## Vegan Princess

Just a quick note from my annoying to type on phone. Still in Indiana. Makenna got croup Friday night and we once again found ourselves in the emergency room. This is the second trip to Indiana requiring an ER trip for croup...out of only 3 trips! Thankfully small town hospitals are much more pleasant to visit than the ones at home that are super busy and make you wait around for hours. Ad thankfully makennna slept fine last night and seems to be well.

Ever: I wanted to post to say that you are in my thoughts. I bet r will be sad when you leave and then adjust quickly. I'm sure all will be fine pretty quickly and I'm sure you are going to love school! It's just normal to be scared of the unknown. You are a strong woman and I know you will do great!

Starling: I'm hoping you do get your homebirth! But either way you'll have a beautiful cuddly son out of it!

Ok forgive my typos. Home tomorrow night!

Cindy


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## justKate

Starling, I'm sorry, how frustrating! Maybe your blood panel will come back better than expected. Fingers crossed for you...

Sue, that photo is adorable. Fiona looks like she's going to squeal with joy.

Cindy, what in the world?! Hopefully you didn't have to sit in the ER too long. And poor M. Glad she's feeling better.

Ever, you are going to do great! Once the new schedule becomes routine, things will feel settled and you can deal with any little issues that come up--but R is going to have a great time. Even after 2 years of full-time daycare, Aubs sometimes cries a little when I drop her off at pre-school. I think its harder on us, really. I'm sure it will be good to have the first day over though.

Not much going on here. Aubs spent 2 nights with my parents, which went well. I was sort of sad the first night, but she did great. And we told them about the new baby yesterday, and they were happy, which is nice.


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## AKislandgirl

Kate: I was wondering how both you and Aubs did in her time away. Glad it went well! And how fun to begin sharing the baby news! Woo Hoo!

Cindy: So sorry to hear M has been sick on your trip. What a bummer!

Everr: You are one of the strongest Mama's I know. School will be just fine and you will get into a good routine soon. I know leaving R at daycare isn't easy but he and you will be just fine. I remember my sister said when she took my niece to daycare she cried in the car the first day my niece didn't cry when she dropped her off! My niece is now off to Gonzaga University on a full ride! He'll be fine Mama! and so will you! Big hugs during the first weeks which are always the hardest.

I got a bunch of work done on our kid room today which feels so so good! I'll be most happy with it when we can take the futon out but it has to stay until after my mom's coming for the new baby visit. The funnest part was getting all the baby clothes put away! So cute. Especially the wool longies I have for her. I've been having fun thinking about what she'll wear home from the hospital. This room is for clothes, diapers and toys and our bedroom is the sleeping room. I'm pretty happy with our set up!


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy, sorry M got sick, that's cruddy.

Ever, the first day is hard, y oldest cried, but I hid around the corner and they had her calmed down in less then a minute, it's worse when you hang around, they don't calm down until you have gone..or they think you have gone. You will both do great!

Kate, so glad things went well with the sleepover, and yay for excited parents!

Erin, congrats on the book, can't wait to read it.

Starling crossing my fingers on that blood panel.

Sue, Fiona looks nice on that horse.

I night weaned Juniper and it went well. Her sucking on and off all night was killing my nipples. the first 2 nights she cried and screamed when I said no and my Hubs is like "just give her boob!" which is funny b/c he's the one who thinks she should wean. BY the 3rd night she was totally cool with it and instead of trying to nurse she would just cuddle into my body which in all honesty is EVEN BETTER. why, yes cute , warm baby, I will snuggle with you...and kiss you a million times!


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## Everrgreen

Thanks everyone. Tomorrow is the big day. Crazy. I'm excited about things but also sort of dreading tomorrow. I hope it goes ok. I'm not sure if I should pick R up early or let him experience the full day. I'll decide tomorrow I guess depending on how the drop off goes. I was actually sort of thinking about bringing a book and waiting in the parking lot for a bit. But that probably won't accomplish anything other than me being bored and anxious. I think tomorrow might be the longest day ever.

Anyway,

We also replaced night-nursing with snuggles. And I only nurse once at bedtime and if he doesn't fall asleep then all he can get after is snuggles. Although, now I get "mama I want to snuggle the boobies" lol! The other thing he likes is for me to play with his hair (what little of it there is) or rub his legs/feet and he will fall asleep that way.

Kate - I'm glad your 2 nights 'off' went well! I still miss Royce when I send him to my moms. I've only ever done it when I've had plans with friends but there is still that moment at night when I'm trying to fall asleep without him beside me. And then I miss him. But it is very nice to have the breaks!

Cindy - I hope M is feeling better! I'm sorry she had to have an er visit 

AK - Yay! So exciting! I can't believe how soon it will be for some of you! I'm looking forward to birth stories and baby pics


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## Vegan Princess

We are home! Makenna is so much better. Had a very crabby day after the ER visit but the meds helped a lot. Just figures we'd end up in the ER on our 2nd day of no health insurance! We decided not to do cobra this month bc it costs $1600! Our new insurance starts in October. Thankfully we can sign up for cobra anytime and it is retroactive. But I still think the trip to the ER will cost us less than cobra will.

Aside from M and I being sick, the trip was nice. It was delightful to watch Makenna and her cousin that is 9 months older. They tried to sleep in the same bed but it just turned into hours of giggles and jumping on the bed so that didn't pan out. Makenna was less than enthralled with her 16 month old little boy cousin who kept hitting her and taking toys.

Courtney: I loved the snuggles I got once we weaned. M could never just lay next to me and snuggle until then. It's so wonderful to snuggle a little one!

Everr: Good luck tomorrow! I think I'd grab him early if you are back early.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Ever* ... I'll be thinking of you tomorrow! I'm sure this is one of those times when it will be a LOT harder on the parent than the child. Got your Rescue Remedy handy? Have a great day, the both of you!

*Cindy* ... So glad to hear that M is feeling better. That sucks about the insurance! What a drag. But sounds like a good getaway overall.

*Sue* ... I love the picture of F on the horse! I showed it to E and she was quite taken by it. "Can I go on a horse too, Mama?" I love horses, so the sooner the better!

*Courtney* ... Good for you for the nightweaning! My life got a whole lot more rich after E nightweaned.

*Kate* ... Congrats on your two nights away! I am so not ready, but I wish I was. Now that the baby is imminent, it'll likely be another several years before we get an adults-only getaway.

*Erin* ... How are things up north? Getting colder? Getting ready to go on your next big adventure?

*AFM*: I don't know where time has gone. I'm 35 weeks today and E came at 37 plus a few days. My body is convinced that this pregnancy will be over soon, even though my brain knows it could be 40+ weeks, and not the 38 that I'm convinced it will be. Darn cellular memory! I'm at that stage where everyone (including total strangers) has something to say about the state of my pregnant being. I feel like time has slipped away from me ... I haven't had a single massage, I need to get my hair cut, we still don't have a will, and we don't have a carseat either. And I'd really like a pedicure. No word back from the blood panel, but I saw the results on line and again, looks fine to me. And no word back from the midwife about the u/s they want me to have. Darn long weekend.


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## Everrgreen

So R is at daycare. The drop off was traumatic. He was excited this morning when we were getting ready, then in the car we had this conversation:

R "I want to go home"

Me "No we're going to daycare today! You are going to have so much fun!"

R "I want you to stay with me"

Me "No, I can't, only little boys and girls get to go"

R "Lets go to Grandma's house"

Me "No today we are going to daycare"

R "I want to go to Papa's house and spend the night" (Papa is Grandpa)

Me "Not today"

etc etc.

Then he was excited again when we got there just when we got out of the car. But then when we got to the room he completely tensed up, he wouldn't walk, he wanted me to pick him up. He looked terrified. We hung up his bag and met his teacher (with him clinging to my leg the entire time). Then I said "ok Royce time for me to go, I'll be back soon to pick you up" and the tears started. He was sobbing. His teacher peeled him away from me with him reaching for me, crying, calling "MAMA!!" I was about to burst into tears so I quickly gave him kiss and said "I love you have fun and I will see you later!" Then I quickly left the room (with him screaming behind me) and then burst into tears in the hallway. I waited around for a while and then sent someone in to check and they said he was still very sad but wasn't crying and the teacher had him. I feel like the worst person ever. I can't believe I walked away from him screaming for me like that. I'm going to call in a minute and see how he's doing. I feel nauseous 

I don't actually have class today or tomorrow. These are our trial days. I'm not sure when to pick him up. I'm not doing anything today other than sitting around being anxious.


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## Everrgreen

Ok, I just called and he seems to be doing fine. The woman I spoke with R has met a few times (she does the enrollment) and when she poked her head in the door he waved at her. So that's good. She suggested I wait until after nap time to pick him up. I'll probably go get him around 3pm.


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## Mal85

Everr: You absolutely did it the best way you can. I'm sure R will have a great day. You may have a few days of him being nervous and maybe crying, but it will get better as he gets used to it. The worst thing you can do (from a teacher/childcare provider's stand-point) is hang around and drag it out. From what I've seen in the kids I've worked with, the longer mom/dad stays the longer it takes them to calm down once mom/dad has left. I have a little one in my class that cries everyday when his mom brings him and she was making it worse. She was staying longer and longer everyday until I had to tell her that she was making it worse. Now, she brings him to class, gives him a hug and kiss and tells him to have a great day at school and she leaves. He does cry and scream when she leaves and I know that's hard for her to walk away from, but I take it from there. He has to learn to trust me and know that I can make him feel safe too.

Oh and don't let it get to you if he has some rough evenings here in the beginning. It's totally normal for them to come home over-stimulated and be extra clingy/cranky in the evening. You're his mama and the person he feels most secure with, so he lets it all hang out with you. You're doing great!

And I had to laugh because the conversation you had with him is the exact same one I had with Owyn just last Friday. She's done so great going to a sitter, but did not want to go to her house last Friday. She wanted to go to grandma's, papa's, to work with mommy, to work with daddy. She even asked to go to church. Anywhere but daycare!


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## Thursday Girl

Hugs to you again Everr. Hearing your story brought me right back to dropping my daughter off at daycare the first time. He'll get used to it soon.


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## AKislandgirl

Big hugs *Everr*! I think you did the best thing by leaving before he saw you cry. You want him to feel safe and seeing you cry would probably make him feel scared. I know it can't be easy but you are doing great!

*Courtney*: yay for night weaning. It sounds like since it went so quickly she was ready. Getting pregnant was my motivation to night wean too! I'm so glad I did even though we had some rough patches. Thank goodness for all of you ladies to help me through those patches! Does she nurse much during the day? We probably nurse about 4 times a day...all before and after sleeping.

*Cindy:* must feel so good to be home! Hope you are both feeling 100% now!

*Starling:* fast, fast, fast! That is how I describe this pregnancy! I hope you make it for several more weeks. I'm not really sure how I suddenly hit 35 weeks either. Yesterday I finally met with our doula. She said that she'd "be on call" for me from now on. I left thinking that is really early isn't it?! Then I got home and looked at the calendar and was like, "Holy *$%^! Baby is coming soon!" Do you think the u/s will be this week? What happens if they determine you do have pre-eclampsia? Early induction like with E? How early do you think they would do it? Go get a car seat today, would ya?! You reminded me... I need to call today to make an appt for a hair cut and to get my eyes checked... I need new frames so badly.

*AFM*: I'm feeling more and more settled and ready as I check some things off of my list. As I mentioned I finally met with my doula and I have all the baby clothes put away and organized. I'm going to pull the car seat out today and wash the cover. Fiona's seat really needs to be washed too but for some reason it is not supposed to go in the dryer. That means I have to wait forever for it to hang dry! I don't want to be stuck at home waiting for the seat cover to dry... how annoying.

So this has me wondering about car seats... What do you guys have for your kids? I still have F rear facing and hope to as long as possible. She is no where near the 35# weight limit (although she has finally hit 25#, woo hoo!) but seems to be getting close to the height limit. She is in a britax boulevard and if her torso gets about an inch longer her head will be at the max for the seat. Annoying because the seat is supposed to go to around 60# forward facing and I thought this would last us much much longer. We have a bucket seat for the baby and when she outgrows that I think she'll get Fiona's seat and Fiona will get a new one. I just want it to last! I'd love some good ideas for a seat. If I can use it rear facing for her still, all the better. If we need to turn her around at that point then we will but since she doesn't know any better and doesn't complain I'm in no rush. Thank you for reading my novel about my car seat dilemma!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: We did turn M around bc she was complaining a lot about being uncomfortable. I still have guilt and fear about turning her, even though she was over 2 when we did it. We have a britax marathon and I believe it is higher and has higher weight limits. But I know there are seats from europe you can even order that let them rear face until like age 5. The washing the cover thing is so dumb. I have a friend who uses a spare carseat while the cover dries. Most of us aren't that lucky though.

Starling: OMG - get that car seat asap! Makenna didn't do me the honor of waiting until I had my hair done, etc. My hair lady was nice enough to come to my house after she was born so I didn't have grey hair in all the treasured new baby shots. LOL. I hope babe stays in at least a few more weeks and lets you get some things done and a little mommy time in.

Everr: I think his reaction was pretty normal. Since it sounds like he is doing well, I think you can relax. Just hard to say goodbye to mama - but that doesn't mean he is having a hard time the entire day. I left Makenna at preschool this morning for the 2nd time. She's been excited to go and said she would be fine with me leaving...but after I stayed for a few minutes she didn't want me to leave. Thankfully she was willing to grab the hand of the mom helping today and wander off with her to go play with her little girl. I'm uneasy about how things are going but I know she will adjust in a few more days. Be sure to let us know the recap on the day after you pick him up!

Our new preschool is so new to everyone that I feel less comfortable leaving her there than in an established place where the adults are all set in their routines and used to dealing with the adjustment. Not that everyone there isn't a parent and used to comforting a kid. But you know what I mean.

Off to be productive until I have to pick Makenna up again.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Sue: We turned Owyn this summer. I hadn't really planned on it, but her motion sickness was getting worse the older she got. I get pretty bad motion sickness too when I'm not driving and I know facing backwards would make that much worse for me. She's done a lot better with the motion sickness since we turned her. I really wanted to keep her rear facing to the 35# limit on her seat (she was in a First Years True Fit). She's a tiny girl though, just 27# now. We had her shoulder straps as high as they could go rear-facing and she was likely to outgrow that very quickly. They were already kind of tight on her. We are borrowing a Chicco Keyfit from a friend for the new baby and had planned on getting her either a True Fit or a Graco Myride after the first few months. But my sister gave us her daughter's Britax Marathon that she's outgrown. So, we moved Owyn into the Marathon when we turned her around and are saving the True Fit for the baby after we're done with the bucket seat. Yay for not buying another car seat!

I know the Boulevard isn't quite as tall as the Marathon, but I'm not sure you'd get more rear-facing time out of the Marathon. I've read the Radian Sunshine Kids seat is the tallest rear-facing seat. Maybe you could get more rear-facing time out of something like that?

Cindy: I take it M is feeling much better now that you are home! How strange that she has gotten that sick on the same trip, any theories or do you think it's just a coincidence?

AFM: Today is my last day of a long weekend and we're taking it easy. We've been busy all weekend with company and BBQs to attend, so it's nice to just relax today. The long weekend means I only have 2 days of work this week which is nice. I'm now 31 weeks and getting really excited (maybe a little anxious too) about the baby coming soon! How crazy to think I'm just a few weeks behind you ladies that are getting so close! People keep asking me if I'm ready for the baby and I'm starting to think maybe I should be preparing in some way, haha! I did go through all the baby clothes over the summer and washed the ones I can use. They haven't been put away yet. I'm waiting until I get Owyn's fall/winter stash started and organize everything at the same time. I got my hands on an almost brand new pump that came with all the parts I'll need. I need to mention to the friends I've lent things to that I need my bottles back, but they've all given me the diapers I lent out. I just need to wash them and put them away. I have strict instructions from family members not to buy anything for the baby. I guess they're planning on having a small shower for me next month when we have our Christmas shopping extravaganza. I don't need much other than some winter clothes. So, I really feel like I've done all I can for now...

Speaking of clothes... our weather is really cooling down sooner than I thought it would. I was going to wait until the end of the month to do Owyn's fall/winter clothes shopping but I don't think her shorts and t-shirts are going to cut it. Guess it's time to start looking for some deals!


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## Thursday Girl

Juniper still nurses a lot during the day and won't take no for an answer, the only thing that sometimes convinces her to wait is chocolate milk and I'm not willing to use it a lot. maybe 6-8 times a day?? maybe more, sometimes for long nursing sessions, before bed it's a good 45 minutes, sometimes just for a quick sip, we call those "little nips".

June is still rear facing in a britax marathon in my car and an even-flo( I think it is) in her dad's car. Both seats used to belong to her older sister. Josie (my 5 year old) has a britax frontier and oh crap the GIANT one that she is still 5 point harnessed in. When we went on the road trip we used the giant 5 point harness one for our 8 year old,Jewel, but other then that she has a britax backed booster and a graco (i think) backed booster. We also have a Graco (i think) backed booster for when Josie rides in other peoples cars because her 2 britax seats are HUGE and way hard to move, We also have another smaller 5 point harness that we sometimes use in other peoples cars for her but at the moment I am not actually sure where it is. The new baby will go into Junes old bucket seat, but at some point we will need to pick up another marathon or something along those lines. I usually buy them when they go on sale and our taxes come in. The smaller 5 point harness was a hand me down from trusted car seat freak friends. The bucket was loaned out to 2 other babies since Junes but now I have it back, need to get maternity clothes and all sorts of other pregnancy baby stuff back soon...well relatively soon. We didn't originally set out to get 2 seats for each kid, it just sort of evolved one car seat at a time, or 2 graco baked booster, but they were $80 together). We may not have much money and I am pretty damn cheap when it comes to almost everything, but not car seats. It drives my Hubs mad he keeps waxing about standing in the seats when he was a kid, I just say "and where you guys ever in an accident? A seat is not for the ride it's in case you get in an accident!" Mostly he knows I won't budge and just acquiesces when I say we need yet another seat.LOL.


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## starling&diesel

Oh man, the carseat dilemma! Sue, did you catch the conversation about carseats in the ddc?

If so, this will be a repeat. If not, here goes.

E is still RF in a Radian Sunshine, which goes up to 40#.

She's in the middle of the back seat, which is the safest seat.

So where do I put the baby? The Radian is so tall that it won't RF behind either of our seats.

I can either turn E, but then keep her in the middle because the FF child is the most at risk out of a RF infant and FF toddler.

But that would mean putting the baby RF in a bucket seat on the outside. That just doesn't sit right with me for some reason, although the research does suggest that the FF toddler should be in the safest seat, hence the middle of the back seat.

Or I could leave dd RF in the middle and put the baby RF on the outside, but then I can't sit beside the baby, and that's where I'd want to be.

Still with me?

What I would like would be to put E FF to one side and the baby RF in the middle, so that I can sit beside the baby and E can help entertain the baby, but that's not the safest spot for E.

Suggestions?

That's why I haven't got a seat yet! Not sure if I'll be getting a convertible (another Radian maybe) or a bucket seat.

Or, I know ... how about a minivan! DP is game!

Crazy.

Help?


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## Mal85

I'm no help Starling. But can't really say a minivan would solve the issue, more like take it out of your hands? At least our minivan anyway... it has captains chairs in the middle row, so there is no middle seat there. We'll have both kids on an outside seat. We had Owyn in the middle until we got this van and I've never loved that I can't put her in the middle unless she's in the third row. Third row really makes her motion sickness bad (too much swaying of the vehicle back there). And I don't really want to put the baby way back there by herself where I can't reach her... So, see I'm not help, but that's where I'm at.


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## Everrgreen

R had a good day at daycare! I went to pick him up after nap time and he was just waking up. He was a bit sulky and clingy but it wasn't long before he was back to normal. So I guess he hasn't been too traumatized. His teacher said it didn't take him too long to calm down and he really enjoyed the singing and playing outside and did well during lunch time. And he has been talking about his day too (including being very worried about a little boy who kept crying for his daddy). Anyway, so far so good. We'll see how tomorrow goes.

RE carseats: R is rear-facing in the middle in a Radian XT. I originally had a Boulevard but it only rf'd to 30lb, his Radian will keep him rfing to 45lb. And he will stay rfing that long. I did however get him a ff carseat for my moms car and I splurged on a Frontier (actually found one on sale and it just made more sense to spend the money on a carseat that will be the last carseat he needs). But I really only want him in that carseat in town. If my mom is going to take him somewhere else I will have her use the Radian. The last time I measured him he was 37" and 30lb. So the Radian will last until he's 65lb and then the Frontier lasts until 120lb as a high back booster (I think 65lb harnessed.. I can't remember)

Starling - No decision will be perfect so just do the best you can. I would probably keep E rear-facing. I'm not sure what type of car you have but I can put the Radian behind the seats in my car (it's usually in the middle though).


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## mckittre

Everr - glad R did so well!

Starling - what's so bad about putting baby on the outside? (whichever way you turn E). The baby would probably be super happy to watch his big sister, and you're really not that far away, even if not right next to him.

Carseats: We have K facing forward in town. Here, the kids ride in a van 1-2x per week, approximately 6 miles on a gravel road each time. So I don't worry too much. When we make the drive to Anchorage (1-2x per year) I put him rear-facing, but exactly where in the car varies, since it's a different car each time.

No time to catch up on everything right now, we're definitely in frantic preparation mode making gear and organizing to leave here on Sunday or Monday. We'll hopefully be on the glacier by the middle of next week! K is super excited about it - the glacier, the tent, his sleeping bag, the whole thing. I think it'll be an awesome experience for him.


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## Everrgreen

R went into daycare this morning without a single tear!! I can't believe it! He asked on the way in if I could stay and he wanted me to carry him so I was a bit nervous. But then we got there and I put him down and he went right over to his teacher to say hi and then went to play. I had to go over to him to get a goodbye hug! He was actually SMILING!! I'm so happy and relieved that he did so well today. I hope he continues to enjoy it. I'm going to pick him up a bit later today (about an hour longer - and then tomorrow I won't be back until another hour longer). Tomorrow my mom does the drop off so hopefully that will go ok 

mckittre - I hope your last minute packing goes smoothlyl! Those kids of yours are going to have some awesome childhood experiences - wow! I guess we probably won't hear from you until you get back. Happy travels!!


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## justKate

Ever, hooray for happy days at daycare! Feels great, right? It sounds like you did a great job too. Whew. Now to think about school...

Sue, I wouldn't bother getting your eyes checked for a while, unless you have awesome insurance and it's free or something. Frames, maybe--I got a new prescription about 5 mos. after Aubs was born, $$, and then a year later was told basically that the first place scammed me because your eyes tend to change during and after pregnancy.







So I had to get another new script less than a year later, after having the same one for 12 years. Grr. So I'd wait, if you can.

Re. car seats--Aubs is still RFing in a Boulevard in my car and a True Fit in DH's. When this baby comes, the plan (for now) is to put the new baby in the True Fit (Aubs fit fine at birth), and get something new for Aubs--I really like the Radians, but geez, they're pricey. But then DH keeps telling me that if it lasts a long time, it's worth it, and I know he's right....hopefully we'll find a sale at some point. I would prefer to keep her RFing a little longer, but I imagine that when she turns 3 we'll probably turn her and put her in the center. It's going to be stressful for me!

A minivan really would resolve the problems, but I just can't get myself to that point--my mom keeps telling me how nice they are. Mal, I get terribly motion sick too--really I have to drive to completely avoid it. Thankfully Aubs isn't showing any signs of it yet. My mom says it didn't show up in me until I was about 4. My dad has it too--turns out there's a vein along the top of the stomach that is super sensitive due to its placement in some people. It's pretty awful.

Erin, good luck on your adventure! Can't wait to hear all about it when you get back.

As for me, I've basically been laying around feeling first-trimester-crappy all week. Anxious to start feeling better. That will happen, right? I can barely remember....


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## Thursday Girl

oh placement, Junes is in the middle row of the middle of the van, and most of the time there are no seats on either side of her. Then the big girls are on either side of the back seat, there car seats are so big you couldn't get them right next to each other in the back seat. When the new baby is born (we first will have to get the sliding van door fixed) he/she will ride in the center spot Junes has and June will be in the middle row on the side.

Everr, so glad things went better!!

Erin I am so excited about your trip!

I finally have my energy back!! I swept and mopped the horrifically messy dining room and kitchen and re arranged the table since Hubs finally finished fixing the wall and floor that had to be replaced and the fridge is now where it belongs instead of blocking our window!! YAY! Next I need to tackle the living room and I am totally afraid of all the food I will find on the floor that the kids have spilled while I was lacking energy. It will be so nice to have a together house...and to be able to invite the kids friends over again. I have been too embarrassed b/c it really has been 2 months since i have cleaned my floors. SUPER GROSS(but at least I know I am not alone, my slightly more pregnant then me friend admitted the same thing )


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## AKislandgirl

Looks like I'm not alone in the carseat dillema. I realized that I didn't have the headrest cranked up as far as it could go so we do have a bit more time with our current seat then I thought. That is good. I did check out those radians which seem like a good way to go when we have to switch though. Placement is tricky too. Good grief! I've always had Fiona on the side because of having a 2nd seat for child care kids. Her seat is too wide to put one beside her in our car. I can at least know that I can't drive over 45 mph here and that is in a limited area of our road system!

Kate I'm sorry you are feeling the first tri blahs. It will pass and you will feel human again! Courtney, I'm glad that you are starting to feel better now!

Erin, good luck with last minute details! So exciting for all of you! Can't wait to hear what the kids think of it. How long will you be gone? Starling and I might have our babies by the time you get back!









Fiona is back in diapers part time. She just has had too many accidents. Even when naked which used to be 100%. I still have her in pull ups for most of the day- they look like undies but don't soak everything. I feel like we have so much change coming up that I don't want to push it with her. The pressure is off for now. She also seems really affected by "making us sad or upset" in her words if she pees on the floor or whatever. Even though we just try to be matter of fact about cleanup and where we need to potty. After an accident she runs to sit on the potty (too late) and says, "I make you happy now?" It just makes me feel bad that she thinks she's making us sad/upset/happy etc... I just have decided to go with undies/pull ups when she is in a cooperative mood and diapers when she is overtired and unable to cooperate with suggestions to go to the bathroom. She'll be there eventually. (right?!)


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## justKate

Sue I don't blame you for doing pullups/diapers when F isn't in the mood. I've just resolved that Aubs will wear pull ups on Mondays and Fridays, because that's when she poops.









So way-north ladies, is there any such thing as maternity thermals? Where do you get warm under-things for pregnancy? I'm expecting to freeze this winter, since it's been 5+ years since I've lived in a place that stays cold for more than a week or two. Should I just buy mens' large?


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## Vegan Princess

That's a huge bummer to have to go back to diapers! I guess we've been super lucky that Makenna hasn't protested or anything - yet.

Speaking of diapers. I have 4 adorable newborn diapers I bought well after M was too big for them - looking ahead to having a newborn. Never been washed or worn. I'm thinking I've jinxed myself by buying newborn stuff before I need it. So I think I'm going to sell then. Silly, I know. But maybe it'll make me need them. LOL. Do any of you mamas have an interest? I have 2 extra small bum genius all in ones - yellow and blue. And 2 muttaqin fitteds in giraffe print and owl print. If not, I'll put them on diaperswappers.

Today is finally my day to stay and help at preschool. Looking forward.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Kate: With my pregnancy with Fiona I just bought a size bigger in some long underwear and wore them low- below the belly. Worked great. I've not needed them this time around.

Cindy: I'm good on NB diapers. Thanks for asking though!

Today starts the play group that Fiona used to get so stressed about. I got the Parks and Rec staff to be in charge of opening and closing the building so that no parent has to do it. I'm pretty proud of getting that accomplished. I'm hoping that since we haven't been since before summer Fiona might be into it. At any rate I can leave whenever now which is huge. If we get half an hour in of her having fun and running around I'll call it an accomplishment. We've been talking about for a couple of days and she seems excited so I'm optimistic that she'll be into it this time around. We'll be bringing her trike which she hasn't ridden all summer for the most part (hard to do on a gravel road!). I'll let you know how it goes!


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## Thursday Girl

I put my oldest back into diapers and then she eventually trained after she turned 3.

hard to type on phone.bbl


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## mckittre

I'm not back until Nov 15 or a little later, so I fully expect to see some cute newborn photos when I return!

AK - Fiona sounds like she's in about the same place as Katmai with the potty thing. I hope they both get there sooner rather than later. We've been doing part-time diapers as well, and will do so on the trip too (aren't carrying enough diapers for full-time, so I hope we can work it out OK). Katmai actually loves riding his balance bike on a gravel road (not that he's ever had any other option). Maybe worth getting one?

Warm pregnancy stuff: I stole my husband's warm clothes. 

Communication will be limited, but we will have a sat phone with us, and are planning to type some short text updates on that if you want to see what we're up to, which will show up on our Ground Truth Trekking Facebook (sorry for those of you who don't have facebook, but it's all public, so you don't need to have an account to look at our updates). We're leaving here on Sunday to start the traveling, and hope to hit the field by Thursday. K is super excited and has been asking if it's fall yet and talking about the glacier every day.

Cute sibling moment: This is certainly not everyday, but today K woke me up by coming over to play peekaboo with his sister sleeping next to me.


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## Vegan Princess

This Sunday? Erin, have a most wonderful adventure! I hope all goes smoothly. I liked your facebook page. I can't wait to hear all about it!!!

Sue: I hope the play time goes well. Glad you aren't stuck staying the entire time anymore.

I'm pooped from preschool! I thought it went smoothly and I'm impressed by the teacher. No problems really. I still am in favor of a bit more play time but things moved quickly and there were 2 outside play times and an inside play time. 2 crafts, snack, lunch, singing, story, etc. I think most of the kids were pretty engaged for a good portion of it. A few just wanted to wander and play and we let them.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Our play group went well! Fiona had a few moments of shyness but otherwise seemed to enjoy herself. We left first- right when I noticed she was starting to get a bit clingy and had the "this is too much" look in her eye. Overall I think it went well. She didn't even freak out like she used to over other kids playing with her ball. We'll be back next week and hope for it to continue to go well. It's really nice to get some energy out on these wet fall days without having to fully bundle up in rain gear.

Erin: have an amazing trip! I'll be thinking about your family and will have fun checking into facebook now and then to check on your adventures! I'm sure you will have some amazing pictures to share! Love the sibling moment!

Cindy: Glad that preschool seems to be going pretty well. I hope they can start to incorporate some more free play for the kiddos.


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## Everrgreen

I had my first 2 days of class! It went really well - it's awesome being in school again. So far all my classes are marked on midterms/exams only which is kind of nice that I don't have assignments - I can just read/study on the bus and on my off days. I need to get used to waking up at 5am though, I've been having trouble keeping my eyes open by supper. My semester seems like it will be fairly easy though. Next semester is going to be crazy, I kind of wish I could have balanced it a bit but this is how it has to be. But at least it gives me more time this semester to help R through the transition. Although he doesn't seem to need my help - his first week of daycare went awesome. He is doing so well! He was a little upset the 2 mornings I left before he woke up but my mom said he was much better the 2nd day compared to the 1st so I think he will get used to it. So all is well so far!

mckittre - Good luck on your trip! I can't wait to here all about it


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## Mal85

Sue: So glad the playgroup went well. I'm sure it helped a lot being able to leave when she was ready and hopefully she'll be able to get more comfortable with the pressure off.

Cindy: Glad preschool went well! I'd love a program like that around here, but now that I'm working I certainly wouldn't have the time to help put one together. I am pretty lucky that we have some pretty good preschools to choose from here when Owyn goes next year. I'll likely enroll her at the local Montessori school. I did a lot of work there while I was in college and just fell in love with the place and teacher/owner of it.

Erin: I can't believe you guys are leaving already!! Enjoy every minute of your trip and I'll be looking for updates. I'll have my baby by the time you get back!

Everr: Yay for a good first week of school! I'm sure next semester will be hard, but it's so much better to start lighter. Like you said, R will probably need you more during this transition time anyway. By next semester, he'll be in a routine and you'll be able to focus more on school. I'm a little envious, I miss school so much. I'd really like to go back one day, but that's pretty far off in the future.

AFU: Not much happening around here lately. Work is getting better and I'm liking it more everyday. It helped me a lot to take a step back from the planning and give myself some breathing room. I have lessons planned up until I have the baby, so I have some time to focus on getting settled into the school year and it's been nice. I had a new little boy start this week and one of the other teachers overheard his mom sharing some nice words with the secretary. He'd started at a different preschool and cried everyday saying his teachers were mean and didn't want to go. After his first day in our class, he climbed into the car and told his mom "I LOVE my new school!!" and couldn't wait to come back. That made me feel pretty good.









Owyn and I had a busy day today shopping for fall clothes. My MIL came and couldn't resist getting her some things as well and I'd say she is set for the season! She got a new pair of tennis shoes and insisted on wearing them out of the store and now, several hours later, still hasn't taken them off. She looooves shoes!


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## Thursday Girl

Erin- Have a great time, can't wait to see the amazing pictures and here about this adventure!!

Everr, glad R has adjusted so beautifully,

Mal, glad you are getting in the groove.

Hubs hasn't had any work in 2 weeks and is now looking for a job and even said he'd be willing to relocate for the right opportunity, unfortunately the job seems to be in MIAMI.

PLUS yesterday I found out that despite being told I'd be next in line for a birth assistant position at the birth assistant they have hired 2 new assistants and one knows NOTHING about birth and has never even had a kid! I guess in a way it doesn't matter b/c I'd want to stay home with the new babe for awhile I am pretty hurt. I guess instead of just talking to them I should have filled out an application or something. When the new babe is 9 months I amgogin to start putting applications in..no matter where we might live.


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## AKislandgirl

*Everr*: Yeah for school! I'm so glad that you love it. And how wonderful that R is doing great with daycare.  But wow! 5:00 am would take some serious work to get used to!

*Mal*: I'm so glad to hear that you are settling in and loving your job more and more.

*Courtney*: Bummer about DH's work. I hope you can find a solution that fits better for your family. I'm also bummed to hear about the birth assistant position. I think putting in applications is the way to go.

*AFM*: I just want a clean house and to try to keep it that way. So what did I wake up to? My dog had puked all over the living room. She proceeded to be sick all morning but luckily since I was up I could get her outside first. Poor dog. We just gave her some anti-nausea meds so hopefully that will be the end of it. I swear she knows I'm nesting and want to let me know how she really feels about yet another baby coming to take her down a notch!

I'm a little panicky about the fact that we don't have a name picked out for this baby yet! DH nixed my top choice of Violet Maeve and said he only wants Violet if its a middle name. My next choice is probably Hazel Maeve (would be wierd to use 2 color names so no Violet here) I really love it but have been really considering Maeve as first name too. (See, he's not the only one to blame here). I'm having a really hard time with a middle name for Maeve though... maybe Maeve Elizabeth but I'm not sure yet. Maeve Violet doesn't seem to flow well for me. Any ideas for me ladies? And then to add to it- DH throws a wild card at me and says he loves the name Penelope and its his top choice! We have never discussed this name and I like it but I'm not sure I love it. Penelope Violet? Gah! I don't know! I wake up in the night and its all I think about! Help!!!


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## starling&diesel

*Sue* ... Your last name is one syllable, and I'm assuming it's the same one the children have? Hmm. Maeve ___ Lastname. In my mind you'd need a three syllable middle name, so Mave _/_/_ Lastname. Maeve Elizabeth fits the bill for me! Maeve Violet fits the bill too, but I agree, doesn't roll off the tongue quite the same. Any other three syllable middle name contenders? Hazel Maeve Lastname begs for a second middle name in my head. Hazel Maeve Violet Lastname would be lovely!

ps. We haven't decided either. 36 weeks preggo. I'm okay if we have to take a while. Last time, DP named E while she was still being resuscitated and I was still hemorrhaging and I had no real say in the final decision. One of the midwives asked DP very firmly (because DP was getting increasingly hysterical) what the baby's name was and so she named her. Yes, it was the top name on our list, but I don't know if I would've settled on it had I been given a chance to get to know her a tiny bit before naming her. I've asked DP to wait at least three hours after this one is born, unless I bring it up earlier. I worry though that DP had the right idea and by doing it my way this time I'll be overthinking it for WEEKS.


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## Thursday Girl

why not Maeve Penelope? I love it.

I have been thinking about names a bit. But I can't get overly into it yet. I have Whitaker as the top boy name and I am really loving Jemma right now. of course I'm only 11 weeks so I have time.


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## Mal85

I really love Hazel. I think Fiona and Hazel go together nicely too. My first thought was maybe Hazel Penelope. I like three syllable middle names, but Hazel and Penelope are very different names. I'm not sure... Maeve Penelope? Those names are pretty different too. I feel like Maeve, Violet and Hazel all have a similar style, Penelope is different from that style. I do love Penelope though and would have loved to use it as a middle name.

Owyn was up at 4 this morning. Ugh! She was sleepy, but restless. DH tried a few times to take her back to her room. She didn't cry, but she kept coming to our doorway and laying on the floor. If it was carpet, I'd be fine with her passing out on the floor if that's where she ends up. But it's hardwood and she kept rolling around and kicking her feet. DH ended up sticking her in the crib in our room after trying to get her back to bed for 45 minutes. She still rolled around and kicked her feet another 45 minutes before getting back to sleep. I was up by then, never did get back to sleep. So, I am soooo sleepy today and we had Grandparents Day at the school today so it was crazy. I'm thinking an early bedtime for me tonight! Days like today make me so glad I only work every other day, I can catch up tomorrow!

How are you other pregnant ladies feeling physically? I'm feeling like such a wimp. I still have 8 weeks to go and my body already feels so done. It physically hurts to pick Owyn up anymore or when she sits on my lap. She is so squirmy when she tries to sit with me and ends up pushing on my belly and it hurts! It doesn't help that the baby is still very active and gets herself into the most uncomfortable positions and decides to stay there for a while. I have a ton of new stretch marks right in the middle of my belly from the baby starting to roll over and stopping with her butt sticking right out in front. I try to nudge her along, but it hurts to even put my hand on her! Physically, I feel like I did in the last couple of weeks with Owyn and it makes me want to weep to think I have another 8 weeks to go! Yesterday, someone actually asked me how many days I have left. Days! I was like "Well, 8 more weeks so somewhere around 56 days still!" Really? I look like I'm days away. Ugh!

Okay, end of whining session. I'm going to go on and appreciate the fact that I've had a healthy, normal pregnancy and a healthy baby growing in there.


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## AKislandgirl

Wow, the first baby from my Oct DDC was born today. And she and I have the same due date. Reality has hit!

Mal: Physically I actually feel a lot better this pregnancy then I did my last. I had terrible hip pain last time to the point that putting on socks was ridiculously painful. I still am sore but not nearly as bed. I think its because I've been keeping up with yoga 2x per week pretty religiously this time around- and up until yesterday was doing a pretty regular, somewhat strenuous ashtanga practice. From here on out I'll be doing my prenatal yoga though just because babies positioning was beginning to make a lot of poses more difficult. Somedays I have noticed feeling winded though over things that shouldn't make me winded (in my mind!). It's annoying!

That being said, Fiona has a knack for crawling all over me and elbowing my sore boobs! Ouch!

She slept terribly last night- woke up crying so hard I can only guess she was having nightmares. She crawled in with me and was smooshed against me with my arm around her and kept crying for me to hold her closer. Poor baby. I'm tired today and am hoping to get a nap in with her.

Thanks for the feedback on the names! I just want us to get it narrowed to 2 and then we can decide when we meet her... if only we could narrow it down to 2. Well, I have but DH keeps throwing me for a loop! Darn him and his opinions!


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## Everrgreen

Wow - you pregnant Mama's are getting soooo close!! I'm so excited for all of you (even the ones who have a ways to go yet!) Can't wait for baby pics 

As for names I have yet to see a name suggested by anyone that I don't like! I like the idea of waiting until the baby is born to decide. Remember - there's no rush, you can take your time!

R is still doing well at daycare. He was sad at drop-off yesterday and today but it was more of a defeated cry as opposed to the tortured screaming from his first drop-off. It still makes me feel awful though. Tomorrow I'm keeping him home for a mommy and R day. We both need it.


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## justKate

Ever, I never know when Aubs is going to cry when I drop her--its totally dependent on the circumstances when we walk in, it seems. If she feels overwhelmed, she cries. I try to help her make eye contact with the teachers that I know she likes, and it seems to help her focus on a happy thought long enough for me to escape. I hope you guys enjoyed your day together today. Somehow the separation makes it extra special!

Sue, remind me of your due date again? I'm thinking you have like 4 weeks left? Was F early? I hear ya on the elbows. I'm trying to get Aubs to be more conscious of what her limbs are doing when she's pushing off of me or kicking, but she's a bull in a china closet....

Mal, I can't imagine how exhausted you must get. Childcare/teaching is so hard!

Ugh, now Aubs has decided she must have a bath NOW so I'll have to come back for more....


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justKate*
> 
> Sue, remind me of your due date again? I'm thinking you have like 4 weeks left? Was F early? I hear ya on the elbows. I'm trying to get Aubs to be more conscious of what her limbs are doing when she's pushing off of me or kicking, but she's a bull in a china closet....


My due date is 10/6 if you ask the Dr and 10/10 if you ask me!







I went into labor 3 days before Fiona's dd and she was born the day before. I suspect this baby will come sometime in week 39. Of course you never know but that is my hunch. My mom arrives here on the 2nd so anytime after that baby is welcome to arrive! Before that and I'll be in a panic about having Fiona taken care of. We have backup but my comfort level is with my Mama! We are really hoping that baby arrives at a time of day that Fiona will be able to be at the birth with us.

I have a terrible cold right now and hope it passes quickly. I have things to do! I also don't want anyone to be sick when baby arrives so if it's going to make the rounds of the family I hope it does it quickly! We are just hanging out at home today. Thankfully Fiona is getting better and better about independent play. Yeah! It's also super rainy here lately (we got 3.5 inches of rain in one day earlier this week!) so we have decided to hang out in our PJ's all day. Lots of coloring, stickers, and beading projects planned for today!

On an interesting note... I had a wicked cold and cough right before Fiona was born. I was still recovering from it when I went into labor! When I woke up yesterday and told DH I was sick he said, "Does that mean baby is coming?"

Names: We have decided that when she is born we'll figure out her name. We have 3 names where we finally figured out first and middle combos that we are happy with and we figure we'll know when we see her. It feels good to have let it go because I was driving myself crazy. She will either be Hazel Maeve, Maeve Elizabeth, or Penelope Maeve.

Things I'm loving right now:

The way Fiona says together: Let's do that togeder Mama.

That she never fails to mention her baby sister when talking about our family. (also her dogs!)

That she is getting more and more into doing art projects and will spend lots of time on them!

Her big appetite and willingness to try lots of things. Since she has been tiny most of her life it makes me feel so good to see her eating well.

When I tell her I can't run or jump off the porch because of the baby she lifts my shirt and cups her hands to hold the baby. "I've got Baby Sister Mama, now you can do it!"

When she declares that she can do anything because, "I am a STRONG girl!"


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## justKate

Had my first midwife appt today, which was interesting. Its sort of a mainstream hospital, being military and all, but the midwife today was AMAZING and had a VBAC herself recently. Said that I could ask for her for every appt if I wanted, and was totally okay with me declining the pap/pelvic exam/vag u/s. I went ahead with the abdominal u/s because DH seemed to want it. Definitely a baby in there, moving all around. By conception I'm 10+5; measuring 11+1. Don't have to go back for 6 weeks, which means only 2 appts in the first half of the pregnancy, which is great.

Still haven't told anyone but my parents and best friend, so i guess I need to start thinking about how to do that.

Wow Sue, that is SO CLOSE. I hope the bug you've got doesn't mean baby is coming quite yet--it is better when things all go according to plan. Art projects are an awesome thing for occupying little ones. There are these wood masks with popsicle stick handles for $1 at the craft store that Aubs LOVES to paint. We can spend an entire morning doing that.

Starling, did you get your blood work results? Fingers crossed that everything is holding steady. You're almost there!


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## starling&diesel

*JustKate* ... Yay for an awesome VBAC midwife with personal experience! And yes, you'll need to start sharing the news with people soon!

*Ever* ... So glad to hear that R is doing so well with daycare. That is just awesome.

*Sue* ... Don't cough so hard that you send yourself into labour, mama! Get better!

*AFM*: Waiting for yet another bunch of results from some more bloodwork. Waiting on the GBC results, and some more pre-e results. I think it's staying at bay, which would be nice. But last time it came out of nowhere almost overnight. Still hoping for my homebirth, but feel pessimistic about it. My midwife wants us to be ready for either, and we're not. 
They figure this baby is going to be big. Whatever 'big' means. What does 'big' mean? Too big? Just right? Bigger than E? I'm still measuring four weeks ahead. I'm almost 37 weeks, which is absolutely insane!


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## AKislandgirl

kate: Great to have a VBAC experienced midwife! Woo Hoo! How are you feeling these days?

I'm on the mend from my cold but its lingering a bit as colds do. A couple more days and I should be 100%. Fiona is just now getting it though. She woke up this morning and told me "Mama, I have a frog in my throat." in the saddest little voice. I'm glad we're getting it out of our system now.

I'm 37 weeks today! Can't believe it really. Weird to think that baby will be here in a matter of weeks. I just need her to wait until my Mama gets here on the 2nd! I really need to pack my hospital bag but keep putting it off. I have my list made though! (as if that counts!) I took a nap on the couch with Fiona yesterday and was just soaking up as much time with her as my only baby as I could. I know that she'll be a great big sister but I'm a little worried about how she'll handle the transition to sharing us. Only time will tell!

Hope you are all doing well!


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## starling&diesel

Oh, *Sue* ... That is my single biggest worry too. Another AP mama friend of mine had a baby August 15th and when I was over there the other day I asked her what has been the biggest challenge. She broke down in tears and said that having to divide her attention between children was the hardest part by far. I am quite nervous about it.


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## Thursday Girl

that is hard, when the bigger one wants you but the baby needs you. it does all work out, they get used to it, and they do have the extra greatness of a sibling. They usually do really well at first until about 3 months, then the bigger kid realizes this isn't just some novelty, that baby is staying and life is different. But then you are recovered and baby can more easily go to another adult while you give bigger kid some time. Make sure to get time with bigger kid and not always have your partner take care of them. I made that mistake with oldest and we had to reconnect.


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## Mal85

I have worries about splitting my attention too, but maybe not quite as big since I was always taking care of other kids. Even now, I go to work and work with a room full of other kids, so in my mind I'm used to taking attention off of her and giving it to someone else. It will be quite different though with things like bedtime and nighttime parenting. That was also my biggest adjustment with one kid. I was used to taking care of babies, but not the 24/7 aspect of it. So while I'm used to giving my attention to other kids, not all day every day.

I already have to remind myself that I not only wanted to have another baby for myself, but to give her the experience of having a sibling. The full experience... the good, bad, ugly, beautiful experience. It won't be easy on any of us, but my hope is that they will both be better versions of themselves because they have each other. Does that make sense? Owyn will learn so many important life lessons from having a sibling. Things I wouldn't know how to teach her otherwise. Mainly, to put someone else's needs ahead of her own. She may want-- even think she needs-- Mommy or Daddy right now, but her sister may need me more at that moment. She'll also learn patience. She'll learn to love someone unconditionally. I need to leave myself mantras around the house to remind myself of that when I'm in the midst of it...

AFU: The last few days have been no fun. Owyn is feeling off. I'm not quite sure what's wrong, but I think she's finally getting her last molar. I hope that's all it is. I did notice last night that one of her ears was extra waxy, but I can't tell if it looks red or not. She's never had an ear infection before so I wouldn't even know what to be looking for. She's been clingy, kind of quiet, not much appetite, super cranky, and not sleeping well at all. All these things are normal for when she's getting a tooth too, but the lack of sleep is getting to me. She went to bed early last night, slept about 4 hours, then was up every hour after that. I finally gave her some Motrin around 3 in the morning even though she didn't feel warm, she was acting like she didn't feel well. She slept the rest of the night after that. She stayed with my sister today and she said she felt pretty warm this afternoon and hadn't eaten anything all day. So, I had her give her some Motrin and she's been pretty normal since then. I think I'll give her some before bed tonight and hope she sleeps better. I hate medicating her when I'm not sure what's going on, but we have got to get some sleep!

On a good note, we had our country fair over the weekend. It was a rainy morning, but cleared up for the parade later on. I had to ride in the parade with the school I work for and took Owyn with me. She loved it! She was throwing candy to the kids. Only one piece at a time, she was very meticulous about it. She had pom-poms she loved shaking around and was waving to everyone she saw. That night, we went to a friend's house for homemade egg roll night. Owyn was so beat from the big day, she fell asleep on their bed at her normal bedtime and slept until we went home and went right back to sleep once we were home! She's never done that before! It was nice to get adult time with our friends without having to get a sitter.


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## justKate

It is weird to think about our babies not being "the baby" anymore. I worry about how its going to go, but I know in the long run it will be good for them. Mostly because I HATED my brother when he was born--pretty much until he was 15 or so. And I was only 2 years 3 mos older. My brother was pretty high-needs--constantly screaming, never sleeping, constantly vomiting--and I was low key so I think my parents treated me as more of a "big kid" than I actually was. But now I'm very happy to have a sibling--takes a lot of the parents' pressure off. Hmm, that was not positive, like I had planned. I think taking in as much only-baby time as possible and remembering that two (and three!) year olds are still babies in a lot of ways is the way to go.









All is well here, feeling pretty okay and starting to slowly spread the news. Shared with my brother and his wife today; secretly hoping they have a surprise of their own to share, but I think it will be another year or two. We are settled in to the area and the house now, so life is falling in to a routine and I'm starting to think of Fall. Its my favorite season and will be DD's first time in "real" cold weather and changing seasons, so I'm excited to do lots of outdoor things and harvesty-stuff with her. I made Halloween costumes for my best friend's twins (Snoopy and Woodstock) but forgot to take pics, so I'll have to get her to send me some when she gets them. I'm making a Cinderella costume for Aubs next, which is SHOCKING, but she wants to be a princess so princess it is.

Had my first midwife appt, and it went well. We did an abdominal u/s, although I didn't really want to--she wanted to take a look and DH seemed to really want it. I did manage to keep my pants on the entire time, which was an accomplishment. (This is a hospital-based midwife group.) I'll post a pic in a minute if I can...

10+5, measuring 11+1


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## Everrgreen

Kate - Wow! So exciting! I find it so amazing how in only 10 weeks it already looks like a baby <3 Are you going to find out the gender?

Mal - Sounds like a fun weekend! That is awesome that Owyn slept at your friends house. R is the anti-sleeper, especially when there's people around. I hope Owyn feels better soon!

Starling - Did you get your results back? Any changes? I hope everything is still looking good and you get to have your homebirth!

Sending lots of happy health birthing vibes to Starling and AK!! I guess you both could have your new babies any day now!

So what are all our toddlers being for Halloween this year? I think I'm going to find a dinosaur costume for R, that's his big thing right now.


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## Nillarilla

Have checked in and read a little from time to time but haven't posted. Life's been well...... life. I currently have a 5 year old sobbing away on the couch beside me. Did I mention that I hate discipline? Cordelia has been really screamy lately so we are working on that.

All these upcoming babes make me want one.....

School is in full swing so not much time for anything. Both for me and ds. Just the pickups/dropoffs and lunch stuff takes a lot of time. I'm finding it hard to balance and not focus on school every spare minute. I took both kids to the park last night with no books or articles and that felt good.

Starling I'm rooting for your home birth so I can live vicariously through you.

Sue sending happy healthy labour vibes your way.


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## Thursday Girl

oh, Kate, I love the picture of the baby b/c it helps me picture my little one. (I'm 12 weeks 3 days)

How's it going Starling?

NIlla, nice to hear from you. School time can be overwhelming. I always look forward to the breaks, and luckily my kids have 4-6 week long breaks during the year and summer vacation. I LOVE this.


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## AKislandgirl

*kate:* love the u/s picture! I'm impressed you can sew all those costumes!

*Nilla:* So great to hear from you! Life sounds really busy for you right now! I hope you are loving school!

*Everr:* Fiona is going to be a dinosaur too! I found a fleece one piece snowsuit style costume at a garage sale this summer. She loves it and wears it all the time!

*Courtney:* I think that is great advice to make sure to have time with just the older child. I'm going to make a point to do that. People ask me if I'm nervous about the birth- not at all. It's the life with 2 babes I'm nervous about and helping Fiona feel good about it.

*Mal:* I like what you said about siblings. I really do think that even though it is hard sometimes, siblings are so awesome. I have 4 and can't imagine my life without them. I'm especially close with one of my sisters and I love thinking about my girls being friends when they are adults.

I hope Owyn starts feeling better soon. It's so hard when you aren't sure what's going on. Molars were hard on Fiona too, so maybe that is what is going on.

*Cindy:* Haven't heard from you in a while. Hope you are doing ok.

*AFU:* I was sick last week but over it now for the most part. Fiona has it now and DH is in denial that he is getting it as well. She has been wanting to nurse a ton which is a bit irritating to my sore nipples but I know its just because she feels crummy. I just want us all to be healthy when the baby arrives! We are having a home day which hopefully means I can finish tackling the laundry pile. I'm so bad about folding laundry that it just sits on the spare bed forever!

funny story from the other night:

DH was giving F a bath. She farted and he asked her if she needed to poop. (she was overdue!) "No, I'm fine. It's just my gulps." I don't know where she came up with the term "gulps" but I love it!


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## Vegan Princess

I'm still here, reading. I just don't feel like saying much these days. It's a bit hard for me to come on here and read about all the baby news while I feel like I am going through hell with this infertility stuff. Another month of not being pregnant. We'll be doing IUI #2 in 2 weeks. We have 2 shots at IUI and then I think we need to make a big decision about whether or not we try IVF or just move on to using donor eggs. Right now I'm actually leaning towards donor egg! I actually called the clinic to get on the wait list today (which is 6 months long). I know we can't afford to try IVF AND pay for a cycle with donor egg. It's one or the other.IVF with meds is 18k and donor cycle all said and done is 25-30k! And I've been reading an IVF forum and watching the women with the same thing as me - and they spend thousands and thousands on repeat IVF and most of them don't ever have a baby to show for it. So we'll see. But I'm ready to just be done with this taking over my life - I just want a baby already and to move on from ever having to think about TTC again!!

Even though I'm frustrated by the long process of TTC, I am glad that my kids will have a bigger space. Though now I'm afraid of it being too big. I think 3 yearsish, like you ladies are doing, is great. My husband has 2 younger brothers - one 19 months younger and one 4.5 yrs younger. He is much closer to the one 4.5 yrs younger. He and his middle brother fought fought fought fought.

Makenna is doing well. Today she gushed about how much she loved preschool and had so much fun. So she is adjusting well and I'm feeling pretty good about that. And I'm getting in some awesome yoga workouts and trying to focus on enjoying my body and my own time while i'm not pregnant.

Makenna wants to be a pumpkin for halloween. She chose it all on her own and tells me that every time I ask. I don't know where she got the idea. I still need to find a costume though. Her playgroup will be having its 3rd annual halloween party, even though we almost never meet anymore. It's too cute not to get all the littles one together while dressed up!

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... I'm glad you chimed in with an update. I think of you often. The prices for either of those procedures are huge! With a donor egg, can you choose your donor like other people can choose sperm? With a catalogue? I'm eager to follow your journey, whatever path it takes! After seventeen years of infertility and thinking I'd never birth a child, I know how hard it is to hear nothing but baby talk all around you. I'm sorry it's been difficult.

Hi *Nilla*! Good to hear from you! Not sure if I'll get my homebirth, but I'm slowly preparing for it anyway. Hope school is going well for you!

*Ever* ... Yep, got the results back. Still teetering on the brink of pre-e, but managing to keep it at bay. I am GBS positive again though, which is a total bummer but doesn't rule out a homebirth here.

*JustKate* ... I can't believe how baby-like your baby looks already! That is so cool! I've not seen u/s pics at that stage before. Only at seven weeks (blob) and twenty weeks (baby). How cool!

*Siblings* ... I'm estranged from all three of my brothers, so I'm certainly not 'giving' E a sibling with any thoughts that they'll be each others' best bud. I hope they will be, but my plan is to raise them as individuals and pray and hope that they'll love and cherish each other more than has been the case with me and my siblings have. I look to other people's sibling relationships for inspiration. And to my 'sister' who is my best friend (and is going to be my doula). We're not related but we basically raised each other from about the age of eight and have stayed so very close. She lives three doors down, I talk to her every day, and she is more family to me than any of my blood relations, bar none.

*Halloween* ... E wants to be a friendly monster. I'd really like to make her costume (unless you want to make it for me, JustKate!







) and have a plan in mind. I just need to do it before the baby comes. I want to make a big poncho type sack out of blue fun fur, with a hood, then add horns, floppy ears, orange felt dino type ridge down the back and purple spots, and a tail. That's her description of how she wants to look. We're on year two now of trading her candy. Last year I traded her several Schliech animals for her candy. This year she wants a fruit leather and a toy that she can pick out at the toy store and trade for her candy. It's a local shop, and the owners know us (we're always in there buying stickers that she puts on my preggo belly) so I bet they'd be delighted to actually do the trade (and I can pay them later.). Should be fun!

AFM: Had some pretty good prodromal labour going there for a couple of days but it's cooled down to a dull roar now. Lots of painful, intense BH, lower back pain, diarrhea, and menstrual like cramping. But not as consistent as it was over the last couple of days. The midwife is going to do a stretch and sweep on Thursday. I'd love to have an equinox baby on Friday!


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## Mal85

Wow, Starling! It is crazy to think you could have a baby already this week, just doesn't seem possible! Really hope it happens soon though, I can't wait to see pics of a little boy noob!

Cindy, so great to hear from you. I am sorry about how hard it's been for you and think of you often. We had a more difficult time conceiving this baby and I remember how hard it was to hear about people getting pregnant when I was trying so hard. I imagine it would be even more intensified going through as much as you are. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you will get your baby... sooner rather than later! And so good to hear that Makenna is loving preschool. I am so excited to start that adventure with Owyn next year.

Halloween: I think Owyn will be a witch this year. If I let her choose, she'd probably be Woody from Toy Story, but Mama is Toy Story-ed out right now and need something simple. I found a black pettiskirt at Target for $10 that will work great. I want to get her some orange tights and an orange top to go with it. My nieces have all been witches, so I'm thinking we can just borrow a hat to top it off. I'm hoping I'll be able to take her trick-or-treating, assuming I'm not having a baby at the time. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this baby will stay in until after Halloween, as that will be my last week of work.

DH is going to stay home with Owyn tomorrow. She slept much better last night since I gave her some Motrin and started off today really well. But she's only herself when she has Motrin in her. As soon as it wears off, her fever is back, her eyes get glassy and she's sooooo cranky. I kept asking her if anything was owie and she kept nodding her head yes but wouldn't tell me where she hurt. Finally, this afternoon when her medicine had worn off she pointed at both her ears and said "Owie Mommy" in the saddest little voice. She also feels pretty swollen in her throat now, so DH is going to take her to the doc in the morning.

Couple of cute Owyn moments:

She found my mom's Hallmark ornament catalog and immediately showed me the Toy Story ornament in the book. She insists she NEEDS it. She needs everything lately. Whenever she asks me for something, it's always "I NEED it Mommy!" "I NEED milk!" "I NEED my daddy!" "I NEED a snack!" Not sure where she picked that up.

Also this afternoon, she was kissing my belly and talking to the baby. I asked her if she was ready for the baby to come out and see us and her response was "Yeah! Greta will come out and poop in the toilet!" Haha! I thought, if only it happened that way!


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## justKate

Nilla, Hi! Glad things are going alright with school. We miss you here, but I know that you're busy.

Cindy, I'm so sorry.







I wish I could give you an egg. I think DH would flip his lid if I suggested it though. My cousin-in-law donated eggs about a year ago (in between her two boys), and it was really a positive experience for her. Emotionally and financially. I really hope that your doc can guide you in the direction that will bring you your baby as quickly as possible. I don't know that we would be able to stomach the costs...but then adoption or even fostering to adopt are expensive and difficult too. Just wanted to echo that we are thinking of you and don't feel bad about venting to us if you need to.

Starling, I'm already costumed out! I wish I had done Aubs' costume first, because after all of that fake fur I'm completely done with costumes. But I must, because I've bought the stuff already. I think an equinox baby would be wonderful. And the sooner the better at this point, right?

Poor Owyn. Hopefully she'll get better soon, it is miserable on everyone when they feel lousy and can't quite communicate what the problem is. Speaking of poop wishes, I wish Aubs would magically start pooping on the toilet. We haven't had a pee accident in months, but pooping is a nightmare. I'm still doing tons of fiber, limiting dairy, ground flax seed, pushing her to drink water, natural laxatives, and then glycerin suppositories after 3 days. I don't even care if she is near the potty--just POOP! The pedi is unconcerned. Aubrey is unconcerned. Just me. Oh well, I guess if she's still pooping in her panties twice a week at 14 we'll have a different problem to address.


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## justKate

Urgently needing some advice ladies.

Woke up to spotting this morning. Once I realized it I called my POS hcp who said "no nurses available, the recommendation would be to go to the nearest emergency room." I'm too hysterical to even call DH, and what would I do with Aubs?

So I'm laying here in bed trying to decide what to do. Guess I need to call DH. But what if it stops? Then I'll feel stupid. And what if it doesn't? Do I really want to learn that my baby is dead today?

Tell me what to do please.


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## Everrgreen

Kate - Just take a deep breath and relax. If it's just spotting I would probably wait and see what happens. Going to the emergency room wouldn't change anything. I see it's been almost 2 hours since your post so hopefully you are doing ok and the spotting has stopped. Remember that lots of women spot during their pregnancy. I'm thinking of you! I'll be waiting for an update!


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - I'm sorry that your journey for baby #2 has been so difficult. I can't imagine having to face the decisions you are facing about what route to choose next, I wouldn't know what to do. And I can understand why it would be so hard to read all the pregnancy updates here. I had such a difficult time during the time I was ttc R. And I also find it difficult to read some of the stuff even now because I can't give R a sibling and I don't know if I ever will be able to. It is very hard. I would love for R to have a sibling but even if he does have one they will likely be at least 6 years apart probably closer to 10 years apart. And for myself too, I would love to experience pregnancy and childbirth again. Someday maybe. Sending you love and hugs - I hope a miracle baby comes your way so you don't have make any tough decisions *hugs*

Starling - Eek! This week! That's crazy! I'm glad things are continuing to hold somewhat steady. Sending you lots of healthy homebirth vibes!!

And I love your idea of trading candy for a toy! R has never actually got any candy (last year he helped hand out candy but we didn't go anywhere). I think he might enjoy trick or treating this year maybe to just a few houses. We'll see. But I definitely am not big on him eating all that junk so I may have to arrange for some trading!


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: Deep breath mama!!! I had spotting w/Makenna around 8 weeks. Sometimes women spot when the placenta takes over - this is when it takes over. Spotting can happen for LOTS of reasons - did you and DH DTD? You CAN go to the emergency room if it makes you feel better. It's horrible not knowing! I'll pray everything is ok!! And thank you for the thought of giving me an egg!

Starling: I love the toy trading idea too. I am going to try it. But my guess is she won't go for it. LOL!

Everr: How is school going? Are you loving it? How are you finding time for homework?

Makenna was up with croup AGAIN last night!! She had a mildly runny nose and it turned into croup. Thankfully we still had the steroid meds left from last time and didn't end up at the ER. But I did get to sit on my porch for an hour at 1:30am and then sit up holding her upright while she slept for another hour. Coffee is divine today.

As for the egg donation thing. Starling, yes, it is very similar to picking a sperm donor. Only I think you might even be able to meet the donor, if you choose (I wouldn't want to). And it is a lot more expensive bc of all the meds and time involved and the invasiveness of retreival. I had the conversation about it with DH last night and he is ok with it, if need be. So I feel a big relief that we have an option. My period arrived this morning so I spoke to my clinic again to schedule stuff for my IUI cycle and she told me she had an email from my Dr saying he was surprised I was looking into donor egg already and not wanting to try IVF with my own eggs and he wants to have a consult with me. Though I never said I didn't want to try IVF with my own eggs - it sort of will depend on what he things the odds are. We'll have that conversation after we try 2 IUI cycles...I'd rather just get on the list no matter what. But it sounds like he doesn't really like I'll need to go that route. But doctors at fertility clinics also operate under the assumption that you have endless money to spend on treatment after treatment. And I don't. And I don't have it in me to be stuck in the hell of trying forever. And I am so scared of miscarrying again with my own egg.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Kate: I hope everything is ok. Did you decide to go to the ER or are you home? Just be sure to take things really easy until you can see your midwife if you decide to wait it out. No lifting, long walks, etc... I'll be thinking of you!

Cindy: I know only too well the hell that you are in and how it can be all consuming. I wish so much that you weren't facing this battle. I do think that you will win the battle though! I have some books I bought and read during my own infertility battles that I would love to send to you. I'll send you a pm during nap time with the titles and if you want any of them- they are yours!

Starling: I love the trade for candy idea too! Last year Fiona picked one piece of candy and got a balloon from someone and was thrilled. Not sure what we will do this time. I know some candy has gluten for one thing... A trade sounds like a lot of fun!

I also love the idea of an Equinox baby! Crossing fingers the stretch and sweep goes well tomorrow!

And ugh to sick babies! I hope everyone is on the mend soon. Fiona seems in pretty good spirits this morning but is still a snotty mess. Little McKenna just seems to get the croup a lot. Sometimes I wonder how often is normal for kids to get sick because I feel like Fiona gets soooo many colds. Anyone know? Should I worry that something is going on?

I'm sorry that Aubs is having such a hard time with pooping too. That would totally stress me out too!


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## Everrgreen

Kate - Still thinking of you!

Cindy - School is going very well and I am loving it! I really find my classes interesting and the profs seem mostly great. All of my classes this year are marked on midterm and exam only - no assignments! So my only homework is reading and studying. Which is nice because it's easy to do that stuff on the bus. But it can also be kind of boring (like today, I should be taking advantage of my free time to read and study but I keep getting distracted). I am so thankful to be able to go to school and do something I love, it's awesome!

AK - I think getting sick is mostly luck of the draw! R has been healthy pretty much all spring and summer. He's been a little stuffed up for the last week but nothing major. But he has also had a stomach bug I think 3-4 times and I think you mentioned Fiona just had her first one not too long ago (I think it was you?). R also has diarrhea all the time but with no other signs of illness (really just loose poop 1-2 times a day).

Alright, back to reading about food microbiology


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy- I am glad you came and checked in, it is nice to see you around. I am very sorry that it's so hard right now.

Kate- praying for you, Some spotting is pretty normal, rest up.

Starling- an equinox baby would be mad cool!

and sorry for sick babes, that is NEVER fun and oh so heart breaking.

Halloween costumes- Junes wants to be Foofa from yo gabba gabba, everything is Foofa these days.


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## starling&diesel

Kate?







I hope all is well!


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## Mal85

Kate: Anxiously awaiting an update. I'm sure (and hoping) that all is well. I'll add another... spotting can be totally normal, but I know I'd be freaking out too. Hoping all is well.

I'm loving the idea of trading candy for a toy. I kind of have a mean plan of taking the Halloween candy with me to the hospital to reward myself with after having the baby, haha! At least that way, she'll still get a toy out of the deal right?! My rule with any candy-filled holiday (Halloween, Easter...), is that she gets one day to have what she wants then we put the rest away. She got to eat tons of candy on Easter last year and was WIRED! But we expected it. After that day, it went in my closet and DH and I shared it, occasionally giving Owyn a piece if she was having a good day. It lasted several weeks that way. So far it works out well for me. She likes the candy I don't care for and doesn't have much need for candy bars. I love the chocolate!

So, Owyn did get worse as the day wore on yesterday and about the time I finally decided she should see a doc was when the offices were closing. The Motrin all but stopped working, it would only make her feel better for a couple of hours then it was torture on all of us waiting until she could have some more. DH stayed home with her today and took her to the doc. Turns out she has strep throat. I hated being at work today. She's never had anything that requires antibiotics. She's had a couple rounds of the stomach flu, but nothing like this. We've always been so lucky that she's been so healthy. And of course the day she needs me, I have to work. At least DH has the sick days and was able to be with her. My MIL was supposed to watch her and I'm sure still would have since Owyn is the only kid she takes care of. But I really felt like she needed to be home, just wish I could have been the one with her. It's the first time she's ever been sick in any way that I haven't been the one taking care of her...


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## Thursday Girl

poor Owyn, strep sucks.

we do the same thing re: candy. One day (sometimes the next day too) to eat as much candy as they want then they trade it in.


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## justKate

Well I ended up going to the ER. I had mostly calmed down by the time DH got home, but of course he insisted. So we went, and they did everything I just refused at my midwife appt. Did a vag u/s and found two subchorionic hemorrages, one ("small to moderate," whatever that means) at the end of the placenta and another small one "anteriorly located." Basically a clot or tear along the placenta between the chorion and amnion layers of the gestational sac. So I'm on light duty for a little while. One part of me feels really relieved to know 1) baby is okay and 2) i'm not a crazy person. The other side is feeling like crap for stressing out DH, making DD sit in the ER with us for 3 hours, dealing with the ER doc who treats everyone like they're stupid because that's the group he is used to treating, letting them prod my baby when there's really nothing they could have done anyway.... But it's done, and we're okay. From what I'm reading subchorionic hemorrages are associated with about 1/3 of miscarriages, but aren't necessarily a predictor for an m/c. So hopefully little one is just growing quickly and being rowdy in there!

Sorry for freaking out a bit earlier.









Big hugs to all of the little ones not feeling well!


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## Everrgreen

Kate - Oh I'm so glad to hear that everything looks ok! Put your feet up and rest for a few days - I'm sure it will all be fine. Sending you hugs!

Mal - Poor Owyn! I know it will be hard if/when I have to leave R when he's sick. I'm sure Owyn is being well taken care of by daddy - that's great that he has sick days for things like that. I hope she gets better very soon though!


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## Vegan Princess

Just a quickie as I really ought to go to bed after being up so much last night.

Kate: I am SO glad the baby is ok! I am no expert on SCH but every single woman I have seen experience one on the forums I frequent has gone on to have a healthy baby. I think I read something about vitamin E helping - perhaps research that some more. And don't feel bad about doing the measures you declined previously. It was necessary to put your mind at rest and to figure out that you do indeed need to take it easy. I only had 1 ultrasound w/my pregnancy w/makenna. I had hoped to decline most ultrasounds when I was pregnant again but I found that my gut was telling me I needed them - and I was right, something was wrong. Now, despite feeling like I shoulnd't have them, I know I'm going to end up with a million of them next time I'm pregnant - otherwise my anxiety level will be so high it will likely be worse for a baby than the u/s.

Mal: Oh no! Strep is so awful! I hope poor Owyn heals quickly.

And I'm hoping we don't have another croup episode here tonight!!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Just dropping in to say *Kate*, I'm so glad that everything is looking OK. Phew!

And *Mal*, so sorry that Owyn is so sick and you couldn't be with her. Poor baby.


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## starling&diesel

Thank goodness all is well, *Kate*! I've know a few mamas with SCH and all had healthy full term babies. The blood is super scary, I imagine. How terrifying. So glad to hear that your wee babe is trucking along despite the excitement.

*Mal* ... Poor Owyn, and poor mama! That's got to tug on the heartstrings for sure.

*AFM*:

My midwife did a stretch and sweep this morning and I'm four centimeters, easily stretched to six, with my cervix nice and anterior and 2 cm long, all nice and mushy and stretchy. She figures this should be a pretty quick labour once it starts in earnest. Whenever that will be! Since this morning I've had a few intense contractions, but nothing worth timing. My poor DP is convinced that the baby is imminent, and that we're not going to have any help. I'd be fine with that, to be honest, but I'm pretty sure the cavalry will arrive in good time. Wish me luck that baby comes sooner than later!


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## Vegan Princess

Eeeck Starling! I can't believe babe can be here any time!!!! Why did your midwife sweep your membranes already? So that you go into labor before the pre-e may set in? My midwife wouldn't dream of doing that until you are past 40 weeks. I hope it works! And that your labor is fast (but slow enough for everyone to arrive)!  So looking forward to seeing pics of you with your little man in a few days! And Sue - you can't be far behind!!

Makenna has been having lots of cute things to say these days. Yesterday I said something about being vegetarian and she said "I don't eat meat. I don't like meat." And I listed off that I didn't eat meat and grandma didn't. So she said "only daddy likes meat. when I'm a boy, I'm going to eat meat". So I said, no, you're always going to be a girl. Then she said "only boys eat meat". I corrected her and listed off a few gals she knows that eat meat. She was totally shocked to find out that her cousin eats meat. It was super cute. I love that she thinks she is going to be a boy some day.  And interesting to hear how her mind processes me not eating meat yet seeing her daddy eat it.

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

Starling you and my cousin might have your babes on the same day! She's having a boy as well and hoping that pre-e doesn't set in again as it did with her first. I can't believe you are already that dilated how cool is that at least all those prodromal contractions were doing something!

Cindy, So sorry about your struggles. I really can't imagine ever being able to afford children if I had to pay for those procedures. Is egg donation legal in Canada? hmmm I'll have to look that up. Glad to hear that Makenna is enjoying preschool. Dee starts in January I hope she adapts so well.

Justkate glad to hear that everything is ok. Sending sticky vibes your way.

Mal So sorry to hear about Owyn. I almost never get to be home with my kids when they are sick because dh has way more flexibility.

AK you must be due soon too?

Halloween - We do the candy fairy thing. The trading thing sounds more honest but I don't think my kids would trade lol. So we do it like Santa except it's a fairy that comes and takes the candy and leaves a toy in place of it.

School yeah I'm not sure I've found the balance yet. I like it but I'm just feeling a little overwhelmed.


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## justKate

Yay STARLING! I'm assuming your midwife wants to get labor rolling asap given the pre-e. Sounds like its going to go smoothly! Funny about DP--I sort of fantasize about this baby just falling out on the kitchen floor while I'm making dinner one evening. DH would lose his marbles, but I wonder if there isn't a way to will it to happen. My mama had one 24 hour, miserable, epi, tear, instrument delivery with me, and then an almost-too-fast 3 hour start-to-finish labor with my brother 2 years later, so I'm dreaming of following suit. I hope things really get moving for you! Of course the minute you stop posting we'll be wondering!

Nilla, I like the idea of a candy fairy, because I can't see Aubs willingly trading candy once she really figures out what it is.

Cindy, that is adorable about M and boys eating meat. I'm not sure Aubs gets that she's not a boy yet--or that there is a difference. She gets mommies vs. daddies, but with kids, not so much.

Still bleeding some here, but its brown so I'm hoping its just the rest of the blood that came from the original hemorrhage and not anything detaching further. I'm feeling like babe is going to be okay, but I guess there's really nothing that I can do except stay still. Grr. We're also all coming down with some cough-cold thing, probably thanks to daycare. I think we'll be watching a movie today!


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## starling&diesel

We've got colds here too ... which is not my ideal to bring a newborn into! I'm a hacking, snotty mess. No baby yet! Thinking I could go on for ages like this. Waddling around with my cervix dilated and waters bulging. Prometrium makes for strong membranes, so who knows.


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## Everrgreen

R and I are both sick too  Not fun! My mom was able to keep R home with her today so he could get some rest. I had classes. We will be in bed early tonight (I'm ready now and it's not even 6pm lol!)

And I realized today that I have a midterm Halloween afternoon and won't be able to get home until late  So no trick or treating for us! Oh well. Maybe there will be something we can do on the weekend.

Starling - Sending you lots of labour vibes!! I hope it happens soon! Maybe tonight


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## Thursday Girl

oh *Starling*, I am SOO excited for you!! It's been awhile since yuo posted, now I can't stop wondering if you are having a baby!

sorry you ladies are sick, that is sucky./ I have no doubt we will all get sick when the weather changes, but it is still quite solidly summer. Excessively hot and humid.


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## starling&diesel

No baby yet ... waiting, waiting, waiting!


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## Everrgreen

Starling - Still sending you labour vibes! Let us know when your labour starts!! And of course we'll need baby pics of your little boy 

R and I had an awesome sleep last night and are both feeling much better today. We've had a lazy morning which is nice, I've done some cleaning and right now R is in playing with his toys chattering away to himself. I love listening to him talk and carry out a little story with his toys.

Oh shoot he just stopped.. He must have realized I sat down.. He's found me. Oh well!


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## starling&diesel

Still no baby ... lost more plug this morning, so must've dilated a bit more overnight. Considering I was an easy stretchy 6cm, you'd think it wouldn't be long. But who knows! Could go on like this for ages! Can't type much more right now, my fingers and hands are SO swollen and painful.


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## Everrgreen

Starling - I really feel for you! I'm sorry your hands are so bad. And I keep checking back here for an update so I can only imagine how impatient you must be getting lol! LOTS AND LOTS OF LABOUR VIBES!! It's got to happen soon, right??


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## AKislandgirl

Starling, thinking about you Mama! Hope today is the day!

I've been getting lots of braxton hicks in the evenings but nothing to write home about! Baby seems to be bigger then Fiona was as I feel her pounding my cervix and up in my ribs at the same time. We'll see. I've told her she needs to wait until Granny arrives... a week from today and then she is free to come at any time! Nesting and cleaning like crazy around here!

Hope everyone is doing well!


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## starling&diesel

Oh sigh. Still no baby. Painful hands and painful feet/ankles. Still the same; contracting lots. I ran into one of my midwives at the park and she still can't believe that I'm walking around at a stretchy six (likely MORE now) and haven't had this kid yet. She's not convinced that anyone will make it here it time. Should be interesting! Perhaps everyone will be wrong and I'll end up induced again.


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## justKate

Well Starling at least if you're induced it should be quick! I hope today is the day and you don't have to worry about that.

Ever, are you and R feeling better? Colds are mostly gone here, thankfully. I hate being sick. But everyone does, I guess.

As for me, I'm still bleeding (more today than yesterday), but feeling okay with it. Last week I made a "follow up" appt for tomorrow with an OB with my midwife group, but I canceled it this morning because I don't think its going to do me any good. I'm still taking it easy and the blood is either 1) old from the original tear or 2) new. If it's old, then it's fine; if it's new, there's nothing to be done anyway. I'm leaning towards old because its brown rather than red or pink. So I'm going to keep doing nothing for another week and see what happens.


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## AKislandgirl

Oh kate, I sure hope everything is ok! Sending lots of sticky baby vibes your way!


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## starling&diesel

*justKate* ... Healthy, sticky, everything-is-just-fine vibes and prayers coming your way!


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## Thursday Girl

kate, sticky baby vibrations coming your way.

starling, baby coming out of the yoni vibrations to you.


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## Mal85

Kate, I would say it sounds good that it's brown now instead of red or pink. That tells me it's old blood, too. But still sending more sticky baby vibes your way just to be safe!

We put up Owyn's twin bed this weekend and she is LOVING it. I took her out Friday afternoon to look for bedding. We found everything on clearance, it was awesome! I got $200 worth of bedding and curtains for $60 and it's so adorable! She keeps calling it her "pretty bed" and has gone to sleep in her bed every night since we put it up. She woke up around 5 yesterday morning, DH went and laid in bed with her and she went right back to sleep. I am so glad we made the switch! I also took the time to organize some of her toys. Now, all her kitchen stuff is together, baby stuff is together, etc. I've been meaning to do it ever since I stopped baby sitting, but just got the energy to finally do it. So, now she's finally playing with her toys again. All in all, she's having a pretty good week and not driving me nuts the last few days with her non-sleeping and not able to entertain herself at all.

AFM: 34 weeks now and so ready to be done. This baby is sitting so much higher than Owyn ever did and I just can't breathe. Work is getting more uncomfortable. Yesterday, I couldn't stand up to do anything with my class. Every time I'd stand up, I'd get this stabbing pain in my cervix and have to sit back down immediately. And the constant bending over or getting onto the floor with my 3 y/o's is becoming impossible. They've been patient with me, which is good. I'm lucky to have a good, small class. This weekend, I have to crack down and get started on my sub folder. Next week, DH will be gone all week for work so I won't have a chance to get anything done.


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## Everrgreen

Kate - Sending you lots of sticky vibes! Although I agree that brown blood isn't as much of a worry! Thinking of you!

Starling - That little boy must be pretty cozy in there! It does sound like when he finally decides to come out it will happen very quickly! And hopefully that is SOON! September 27th sounds like a nice birthday!

AK - It won't be long now for you either! How exciting!

Mal - I hope that baby drops for you so you can breathe! I can remember that feeling with R (although he did drop fairly early and was born early).

R and I are getting over our cold, we've been feeling much better since Saturday just a lingering cough. Today and tomorrow I have no class but midterms are coming up soon (can't believe that!) so I'm studying. I have 2 tests next Friday and then a midterm every week all through October. Sometimes I think I feel a bit too calm about my midterms. I'm a lot more relaxed about everything now than I ever was in high school and university when I was younger. Then I was very worried about getting super high marks. I still want good marks but I kind of just feel like 'meh, I'm doing my best, whatever I get I get'. Hopefully whatever I get is at least a pass lol!

Oh - and R went into daycare today with out a single tear or cling to me! He gave me a hug and ran off to play saying "bye mom! I love you!" Awesome <3


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## justKate

Ever, YAY for easy departures. Makes the day so much better, right?! I think you have a good attitude about grades--unless getting "perfect" grades is going to make a significant difference in your job opportunities...but it sounds like you have a healthy attitude about it.

Mal, I really think weeks 30-36 are the WORST. You're massively pg, but don't want the baby to be born quite yet...maybe this one will be a little early and give you some relief. I think its awesome that Owyn is loving her big bed. For the last two nights Aubs has been playing musical beds between hers and ours all night. Driving me batty. I'm slowly working on her room, with the hope of moving her in there eventually....if DH ever decides he's ready for her to go in the other room.

Thanks for all of the sticky thoughts ladies. I went in today and they easily found baby's heartbeat on the doppler, and s/he seems fine. So I'm going to try to relax about it and keep in mind that every pg is different!


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## Thursday Girl

glad to hear that Kate.

you know whats funny I was REALLY uncomfortable those weeks in my first pregnancy. I went 10 days past my edd with #2 and felt so comfortable and like she could have totally hung out for ages and it wouldn't bother me.

just found out I won't have any sisters in state when the new baby is born just my mom, who is quite unreliable most of the time. I'm pretty sad.


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## starling&diesel

That's too bad, *Courtney*! No sister who could come and stay with you around your due date?

Yay for an easily found heartbeat, *Kate*! The worry never ends. I was just upstairs having a nap with E and got out my stethoscope because I hadn't felt him move for a while. It's crazy making, isn't it? So glad that your baby is doing great.

*Everr* ... That is awesome that R is adjusting so well! And I love your attitude about school. I bet you end up actually learning more that way.

*Mal* ... Hope that baby eases up on your lungs soon!

*AFM*: Alternately numb and painful hands. Achey, crampy, exhausted body. So tired. I have a midwife appointment tomorrow at 4pm, so we'll see how much I'm dilated at that point, if baby doesn't come before then. My whole neighbourhood is driving me batty with concern and kindness. I'd like them to all take a hike for a while. Even though it is so nice to have a caring community ... but still, people, leave me alone!


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## Thursday Girl

starling I am thinking of you but not posting b/c it really can be annoying. gosh my mom was FREAKING out b/c I was in labor at the zoo.

one of my sisters said she;d see if she could come, she's a helpful one too, but we'd have to guess on when the baby was coming. I'll guess a little after, it would be better to have her there after baby got there then hanging out at the end. I guess it all just hit me at once.

Ever, so glad R adjusted. i knew he would, it's great though.


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## Vegan Princess

Yay, I'm fixed! I couldn't post for the last few days. Thanks Everr - your suggestion worked!

Kate: Sending good vibes your way. Sounds like all is well. 

Starling: Thinking of you often! Sorry you are having hand pain. Try and enjoy these last few days of pregnancy since this is your last baby. So precious, despite feeling so uncomfortable. I hope the birth goes smoothly and that your team has time to arrive. At least you are a paramedic, if they don't.

One of our chickens laid her first egg today! I've been thinking it would be any time for the last few weeks. She was letting out some loud screams this morning and I came home to find a nice brown egg in the nesting box. I'm so proud. LOL.  Now we're going to have to cook up this 1 egg and split it 3 ways bc we all want to taste it. 1 chicken looks like maybe she'll lay in a month and the other 2 will be a few months - their breed develops really slow.

Makenna made a cookie monster face at preschool yesterday - just a circle colored blue with a mouth glued on and googly eyes glued on. We had to reglue the eyes 2x yesterday (finally used superglue). But she has not put the thing down! She slept with it - moving it to face her every time she turned her head. And she took it on all of our outings this mornings. So funny. She's never really cared too much about art projects until now.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy: Glad you are back on line! So cute about M loving her cookie monster face! And yeah for the first egg!  Is it tiny? Our chickens seem to either lay tiny eggs or double yokers for a while when they first learn how to lay. I love the double yokers, I feel like I should make a wish or something!

I had a prenatal today and things look great. I have been having braxton hicks for a couple of hours every night and lots of cervical cramping. My Dr was excited to hear that and said its a good sign that my cervix is beginning to change! I hope she's right! I declined being checked though. I'm also beginning to get some lower back pain and seem to be emptying out (sorry, TMI). All good signs that labor is near. My mom arrives Sunday so I hope it starts soon after her arrival. We'll see. We all know it could be hours or weeks from this point! Starling will attest to that!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: It was brown and smaller than what I buy, but I usually buy extra large. I don't think it's actually all that small - definitely bigger than I expected. It looks exactly like Makenna's wooden play eggs. Can't wait to taste it! I've been wondering what your birth plans are? Did you decide to go with the hospital or did you convince your DH to do a homebirth? I'm thinking hospital? If your body is emptying, it sounds like labor is near!!! So exciting! How are you feeling, other than the cramping?

My friend lost her mucous plug with #2 and thought labor was near - but it ended up being like 3-4 weeks later! She went a week late. So hard to know.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Gosh, *Sue* ... I'm going on ten days of serious prodromal labour. I hope it's not that long for you! Another stretch and sweep this afternoon at the mw should tell me some more info, I hope.

Maybe your first egg is a sign of fertility luck, *Cindy*! That'd be awesome!


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: From your mouth to god's ear's! I'm about to lay an egg soon too. LOL. IUI will probably be this weekend. I go in tomorrow for my ultrasound to see how many follicles I have and how big they are. Also, I was thinking - Makenna was conceived right when my brother in law and sister in law had their daughter and my husband was wishing for what his brother had - wife, house, baby, etc. Perhaps we'll conceive as your little babes enter this world!


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Glad you're back! And yay for the egg! I agree with Starling - it's a fertility sign!! Good luck with the IUI!

Starling and Sue - I am SO excited for both of you! It's kind of nice to have all you ladies having babies because I can live vicariously through you! I want to hear birth stories and see baby pics!! It's going to be SOON!

Thursday - I'm sorry you aren't going to have your sisters around for your birth. I noticed on fb that you had lots of people offering to help in various ways. And all of us will be sending you love and being excited from afar 

Kate - Still sending you sticky vibes! It sounds like things are going well, just a bit scary to see the blood I'm sure! I hope it stops so you can relax.


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## Thursday Girl

cindy, that is super cute about the cookie monster face!!! and the egg, awesome! some of our eggs look just like the girls wooden play eggs, in fact they had a friend over that thought one of the eggs was a wooden one and she smashed it on our piano bench.

My one sister said she would come back for the birth and another said she would try to come. so that's really awesome. I don't think they realized how upset I was about it. I do have a lot of amazing friends and that facebook post reminded me. I don't know what I have done to deserve such wonderful friends but I sure am thankful for it.

I am excited to see baby pics and birth stories too Everr!


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## justKate

Cindy, awesome about the egg! Did the chicken seem proud? How old was she? My dad's chickens still aren't laying. I think he got them (tiny chicks) at the end of April? I love their little personalities. The one we thought just had a big personality turned out to be a rooster! He's giving my dad heck right now, but we're hoping its a teenage phase. I'd love to see photos of the ladies!


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## Vegan Princess

Courtney: I love reading about the antics of your girls on FB! Funny to see what we have to look forward to.  Eeck about the egg on the piano bench! I'm so glad your sister (s) will be able to make it to the birth!

Kate: We got ours easter weekend and they were 3 days old - or rather we got 3 of the 4 then. We got the 4th a week later - and the one that is the youngest is the one that laid the egg. So they are about the same age as your dad's. I hear 5-6 months is about average. Depends on the breed how quickly they mature though. Our 2 cochins look cool but they don't mature until around 8 months old - and you can tell bc the one that laid the egg has a big comb and waddle and they are bright red. The cochins barely have a comb at all. The 4th has a nice waddle that is red but not much of a comb - I'm off to research if a mature one of her breed has a comb or not. As for pics - I posted a bunch of chicken pics on facebook. 

Mal: I don't know how you are handling a new job that requires so much activity while being so pregnant! Hope you're doing ok. I get pooped spending 4 hours at DD's preschool and I'm just helping out the teacher. And I'm not pregnant.

Cindy


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: Thinking of you! Hoping babe is here or that you're working on meeting him!!!

I just had my ultrasound. I have 3 mature follicles! I take my trigger shot tomorrow night and IUI on Sunday. They warned me I could have triplets. Not likely though. I'm just praying for 1 good eggie and for DH's count to at least stay the same as last time! Haha lots of egg action going on around here. LOL.

I was just on the phone telling my mom I had 3 good eggs. Makenna came over and said she wants to see my eggs. LOL. We've been talking about the chicken laying an egg a lot so of course she would want to see mine too. Hehehe.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Yeah Cindy!!!!

Starling took a labor inducing cocktail this morning! Here's hoping she's cuddling with her little guy now!


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Woohoo!!! Fingers crossed for TRIPLETS ;o) hehe - alright, maybe just fingers crossed for 1 of those healthy eggs 

Starling - I hope everything is going well!! Thinking of you


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## starling&diesel

Grrr ... x-posting from the DDC:

Well, crap. I took two doses of the induction cocktail, had eight hours of painful contractions six minutes apart each lasting more than a minute, and then when she comes, she told us that she didn't want to break my bag of waters because she has four other labouring mamas right now and I've been bumped to the bottom of her triage list because my bloodwork is fine (YAY!). So, now I'm labouring with no end in sight (Yes, I know there *is* an end), but I feel totally set up. I told the midwife last night that I did not want to take the cocktail only to not have my waters broken. And what happens? Just that!


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## justKate

Starling, you should kick her in the butt when she arrives for the real thing. I'd be pissed. Maybe it would be a good time to scrub the kitchen floor? C'mon baby, its a beautiful world out here!

Cindy, hooray for three eggs, but I'm not going to wish triplets on anyone. Twins, maybe. Its hard not to get super excited for you and ask you constantly if you're doing a trigger progression, if the 2WW is over... so just keep us updated! So when you talked to your doc about egg adoption, did he seem to think that IUI or IVF would work quickly? It just seems like they should know what will work, but I guess everyone is different. In other egg news, my dad just emailed me that he got his first egg too. Random. He was thrilled. Not sure which hen it came from. He has Rhode Island Reds, those big fat yellow ones like Sue has, and something else.


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## Vegan Princess

LOL Kate. The big fat yellow one like Sue has is what gave us our egg.  Maybe your dad too. I was wrong about our 2nd chicken not being ready. I googled what adults of her breed look like and they just don't have big combs. So I guess she could start any time too! I never did talk to my actual dr about his thoughts. I think his thoughts right now are that he can get me pregnant with my own egg - I just don't know if in his mind that means being willing to try IVF over and over until it happens. And of course we don't have endless money to do that. We'll do this IUI and again next month if this doesn't work and if I'm still not pregnant, we will sit down and discuss next steps, etc. DH and I actually met with the therapist at the clinic today as well to discuss egg donation. Really just to get on their waiting list. But it was nice that it got DH to talk about it further and open the dialogue between us afterwards. He said he would want me to try IVF at least once with my own egg before trying with donor egg. I suppose it depends on the odds that the doc would give us. The number of eggs they saw total today (7 - but 4 are too small to mature) was higher than any of my scans in the past and made me hopeful that maybe we would be able to get more eggs than previously thought if we do IVF. Who knows. No one knows anything for sure and that is what is so nerve wracking.

Haven't decided yet if I'll try to test out the trigger. I should just wait the 2 weeks but I know I am likely not capable. And if I break down and randomly test 10 days after the IUI and have a line I am going to have no idea if it's real or not. I'll probably test it out.

Starling: You're at a 7??? This kid is going to pop right out when that bag finally breaks! I'm sorry you're stuck in limbo. It can't be too much longer now though!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Can I just vent to you ladies for a moment? My IL's are very nice but quite different then my family and really don't get how we are raising Fiona. Nobody in the extended family has breastfed past a few weeks, they CIO in a crib... the whole mainstream thing I guess. I'm sure they have never even heard the term attachment parenting. But the big thing that bothers me is the consumerism. My MIL sent a huge box of presents for Fiona for after the baby is born. A very nice gesture but all of it is total crap. Plastic dollar store/ happy meal type stuff. IF it was just a few things I'd let it go and just get rid of it in a few days after she had her 3 minutes of fun with it. This box though- no less then 20 things! What am I going to do with all of this junk?! It is going to drive me crazy (already does, thus the vent!) She even sent a movie for the baby! For the baby?! I put that one straight into the giveaway box. I won't be giving her all of these things but I have to let her have some of it and say thank you to Grandma and all that. It's annoying because we've tried to talk to them about this regarding Christmas and Birthday gifts- they just obviously don't get it or have decided to ignore what we want. Ugh!

OK vent over. Thank you!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: I hear you. There are worse problems to have with ILs though. ;-) Just recycle as much as you can and then hide the rest after F has tired of it.

Cindy


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## justKate

Sue, I hear you completely. Its even worse when its the ILs. My parents and the ILs both do it. They just don't get it at all--to them, plastic is better. As far as toys, I let her have them for a week, then get rid of them. Clothing bugs me more--I hate all of the licensed character crap.

DH is home, gotta run...back later.


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## Everrgreen

AK - that sucks and is exhausting to deal with. I had a lot of disagreements with my inlaws back in the day and it was tiring to deal with. Now when I see them they don't say anything. We actually get along really well now (their son's behaviour brought us closer - he's mostly cut them out of his life too). If it were me I would just donate the toys, they'll never know.

Cindy - I hope your IUIs work and you don't have to worry about the IVF. The whole thing is so difficult and I wish you weren't going through it. And I agree with you about testing out the trigger - you like to test, don't fight it 

Starling - (I will admit I stalked you a bit) I noticed you posted in your ddc this afternoon and still no baby  So frustrating! I know you know this, but I have to say it - you sweet little boy will be in your arms before you know, and when he finally is everything will be worth it. You are doing an amazing job!


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## Everrgreen

I had the most terrifying few minutes of my life today. I lost R at a busy grocery store. I was there with my mom and aunt and we were at the register. My mom sent me to get a turkey and then after I left she came to help me leaving R with my Aunt. My aunt gets flustered easily though and didn't notice him wander off. When my mom and I got back I noticed he was gone. I looked all around, nothing, I started calling for him, nothing, I asked all the people around if anyone had seen him and a couple people said they saw him walk by a little while ago. I ran out side to see if he'd gone through the automatic doors, nothing. I went back in the store and started yelling for him. A bunch of people all started looking around. I was on the verge of a complete panic attack, I could feel the tears coming. I've never been so terrified. Finally someone yelled from the produce section that he was there and I ran over and grabbed him. I have so many what ifs in my mind. All those horror stories that start with the mom saying she only looked away for a minute. Oh my god, that could have been him. What if what if what if! It's been a few hours and I still feel shaky and like I'm going to start crying.

R of course was completely oblivious to the panic.


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## AKislandgirl

Oh Ever! That sounds awful. I'm so glad he is ok. Big hugs mama!


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: OMG! I would be so upset at your Aunt!!! I'm so glad everything turned out ok!!

Had my IUI today. DH's count was worse than last time even. I feel like crying. I've lost much of my hope for this month. Even the doc that did the procedure said I should talk to my regular dr about whether or not we should move on to IVF. Ugh. We are supposed to have that talk after another try at IUI if this one doesn't work. And DH is determined to try IUI again next month if it doesn't work this month. I'm trying to remind myself that I do think I conceived last month, despite the crappy count, it just didn't stick. So it could work this month. The one good thing is that they were classified as slugglish last time and this time they are moving forward fast - so maybe they will get where they need to go better. 3.6 million swimmers and 3 eggs. We shall see what happens!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Ever: My heart was pounding just reading your post, I would have lost it too! That is such a huge fear of mine. Owyn is becoming very independent, especially when we're out and about. She wants to walk "by my ownself" all the time and I try to let her be independent as long as I can keep an eye on her. But sometimes she gets out of my eyesight and I have terrible fears of someone just taking her in the split second I can't see her. So glad he was okay!

Cindy: I'm sending all the baby dust I can! Really hoping this is it for you...

Sue: Does your mom come in today, right? So, baby can come anytime now! Yeah! I can't wait to see pics of her. I remember when we were all having these babies and you posted F's newborn pic. I thought she was just the most gorgeous newborn I'd ever seen, I even made DH come look at her pic. Any word from Starling??

AFM: I'm having a baby next month! That thought is exciting and scary at the same time. I feel like I haven't done anything to prepare, but also feel like there isn't much I need to do... I did tell DH it's about time to start working on getting the car seat out and making sure the cover is clean, maybe install the base soon. We also need to get her clothes put away and start thinking about washing some diapers so we have something for her. Yesterday, I worked for 4 hours writing lesson plans and have only 1.5 weeks of planning left for my maternity leave. Once I get the planning done, I just have to gather materials for the lessons and get them organized for the sub. I have a full week at work this week, then we have two short weeks in a row, followed by my last two weeks of work. It's going to fly by!

I have been having some menstrual type crampiness the last few days. I guess it could be mild contractions. It'll go on for a couple of hours, then peter off. Yesterday wasn't as bad because I took it pretty easy all day. I'm wondering if my cervix is doing anything... I have my GBS swab next week, so I think I'll have her check while she's in there just to put my mind at ease.


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## Everrgreen

Feeling a little calmer today but I'm still having little panic moments! I said to R afterwards that he should never ever walk off by himself. He said he was trying to find mommy and grandma. He said he was over by the muffins and he heard me and then big people helped him. It probably didn't help that I could see the panic in all the strangers faces too, everyone looked so worried and was looking around and saying 'oh no'. Gah!! I think I might be a little overprotective for a while! And I can't really be mad at my aunt because she's like that, she's had brain cancer and really gets confused. If my mom had of said to her "watch R" she would have been ok, but I think my mom just kind of left quickly to follow me. And of course I didn't know my mom was going to come with me. Apparently I should have said to my mom "watch R". But it was just a lot of assuming someone else would watch him which was not a good thing and I will be very cautious of that from now on! I actually usually am very careful of that, I always remind myself that *I'm* responsible for him and I can never assume someone else is thinking of him. I just didn't remind myself of that this one time, but that's all it takes is one time.

Mal - Next month!!! Yay!! September seemed to fly by! Are you due the beginning of November? Maybe this one will come a bit earlier than expected! (Or would that mess up your time-off?)

Cindy - Yay for fast swimmers! Swim swim swim! I hope one of those little guys finds one of your eggs! Fingers crossed - I think it sounds promising!

AK - I also showed F's newborn pics to my ex (well, at that point he was dh), she really was a gorgeous newborn (and is still gorgeous!). She looked like a little fairy baby and had such awesome hair


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## justKate

Ever, how awful! I probably would have smacked your Aunt. Was R bothered? I saw a girl, about 9 years old, reunited with her mom after being lost in Walmart. She was old enough to go to customer service and they called her mom. We happened to walk by when mom walked up and it made me cry. I can't imagine the feeling with a 2 year old!

Cindy, I'm so glad that DH is supportive of the process. I'm not sure mine would be--you're lucky to have him. Hopefully this will be the last month you have to worry about it. Everything crossed that this is your month!









Sue, did your mom get in alright? Does F understand that baby will be here SOON?

Mal, that's a great attitude! See, you just needed it to be October. Baby really will be here next month! I vote for Nov. 9th--my and my SIL's birthday! And hooray for short weeks. The time is going to fly by.

Seems like Starling hasn't posted in a while--I'm going to stalk her a bit to make sure, but hopefully she's holding her baby now!


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## Everrgreen

Starling - I'm still stalking you! I see you haven't posted in 24 hours! I hope all is well


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## Mal85

My due date is November 6. My sister keeps saying she thinks it'll be a Halloween baby. As far as time off, I'd be okay with her coming anytime after October 28. I'd have to use up the rest of my sick time to get us through Christmas break, but it would be doable. I'm actually kind of hoping she'll come a little late. My last day of work is 2 days before my due date and I'd like a little bit of time with just Owyn and getting the house ready before she comes. I'm shooting for 11/11/11. I've had that date in my head from the beginning. When we first started TTC, I was hoping for a May or June baby and my sister jokingly said we should shoot for 11/11/11. I told her no way was I waiting that long to get pregnant! Little did I know we'd have trouble conceiving this time, so when we heard the due date that was the first thing I thought of.


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## Thursday Girl

okay, I JUST figured our what AFM meant. it was like an epiphany b/c i have been wondering.

Cindy yay for all those eggs and I am willing those boys to swim like crazy. A few good swimmers I think are better then slow swimmers. it only takes 1 after all and if 1 can swim to the egg...

Everr, that is the scariest feeling, it has happened more then once to Chris and I, and yep the #1 reason is when it is unclear who has responsability for which child. we make a plan when we go places, especially if i have had my sisters come along the plethora of adults often confused which kid was being watched by whom. ...and my Josie was a kid who took off. The worst was a huge crowded park. the police found her and they were leading her away when my oldest spotted her. scariest feeling in the world, sorry you had to experience it.

so who has been enjoying Erin's updates? I can't wait to see the pictures.


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## Everrgreen

Thursday - lol! I didn't get the 'AFM' at first either, I got stuck on the 'AF' part of it being Aunt Flo  It always feels great to finally clue in to a confusing acronym!

And I have been following Erin's updates! So exciting, I'm really curious how Katmai is enjoying it. I guess he's used to that lifestyle so he's probably loving it!

Mal - Oh 11/11/11 would be so cool!

Kate - R didn't seem concerned at all. He had set off initially to come find me and grandma so he was just pleased that he found us (or, we found him). Although the first thing he said this morning when he woke up was about trying to find us and he heard mommy call and big people helped him. I think the only reason he is processing what happened is because he knows I was upset.

Starling - Still thinking of you!! I'm eager for an update!! Maybe you've just been busy but I'm hoping the lack of updates is because you've got your boy in your arms 

And because a lot of you are going to be posting new baby pics soon, I wanted to post my baby's pic (ok, it's the same old baby that is now almost 3, but whatever ) Here he is, less than 24 hours old:

(I'm going to save my pic sharing for later so as not to cause false excitement )


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## AKislandgirl

My mom will be here in an hour! Can't wait. The house is ***** and span despite waking up to my dog having puked in 6 different spots in the dining room! I just started crying. So we moved all the furniture and got the carpet shampooer out. The carpet is still wet but at least its clean now. Damn dog.

Fiona is pretty excited for baby! She told our friend the other day that Mama has baby sister in her belly and she's coming soon. I know she will have a bit of a hard time transitioning but I also know that she'll be thrilled at the same time. Can't wait! We've been having fun looking at her baby pics! She was so little! Isn't it hard to believe they were our newborns not that long ago?

Cindy: Sending baby vibes your way mama. We were told at the last IUI that it was unlikely to work as well... and then we got Fiona so you never know. Keep the hope alive Mama!

Going to check the DDC to see if Starling has posted. I sure hope she is holding her baby right now.


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## justKate

Oh Ever I could kick you!!







I saw a baby pic but my computer was loading super slow and I was thinking it was Starling's new baby. But I have to say R was a perfect baby.


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## Everrgreen

LOL - Sorry Kate  I keep checking back here for an update from Starling too 

ETA:

I took the pic down for now - I will share it when we aren't all anxiously awaiting Starling's baby pics


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## justKate

You didn't have to do that, it was funny!


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## Everrgreen

Haha - too late, it's done! But here's one from today, testing out his snowsuit for this year to make sure it all fits. We also went shopping and got new boots so he's all ready for the snow!

(removed for privacy)

Notice his lovely purple toe nail polish?

ETA - I will delete this soon too just cause I don't want it left up


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## justKate

Very cute! He looks serious about it. I've been working on a snow suit too--this is the first year we'll actually have cold weather with Aubs (well, not really cold compared to what you guys have, but cold for me). Now I need to find some boots for myself.


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## Thursday Girl

snow, what a crazy idea. He is super cute, little kids look adorable in snow suits.

sue, gross about the dog, I hate waking up to disasters. super happy your mom is almost there and the new BABY!! Are you going to let Fiona cut the cord, with help? Jewel still talks about cutting her sisters cord, it gave her a real connection and pride in the baby for the part she played. they wouldn't wake up when Junes was born, but I am going to let them this time.


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## AKislandgirl

I never thought about doing that Courtney. Great idea. I'll see what she thinks at the time.

My mom is here! So happy.

Love the snowsuit picture! Looks so warm and cozy. We have managed another year with hand-me-down winter gear. I did buy her wool long johns which she has already started to wear and I'll buy her some boots when we get our dividend checks later this week.

Thanks for all the sweet words about Fiona's baby pictures! I thought she was pretty cute too. I love looking at those pictures of her.

Still no word from Starling- can't wait to see pictures and hear a birth story. Hope she's cozied up with her little guy now.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling has to have had her little guy by now!!! So excited!!

Sue - yay, now babe can make her debut!  So glad you made it to having your mom here. Can you remind me why they told you your last IUI likely wouldn't work?

Not much exciting news here.This is the calm part of the 2WW where I can't go nutso testing. LOL. We ended up getting 4 eggs from the chicken last week. So she beat my 3. LOL. The 4th was gigantic!! I can't wait to crack it open and see if it has 2 yolks. She's laying every day now. Yay!

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

I've been out all day and was so hoping for an update from Starling! I agree that she must have had her baby 

Cindy - Yay for chicken eggs! I hope it's a sign of good fertility all around!

Sue - That's awesome that your mom has arrived! Hopefully she can give you a couple nice rest days before the new baby comes.

R's coat is a hand-me-down but I had to search for some snowpants that would go with it. I think those ones look nice they are new but were a good deal (couldn't find any used that I liked). And I splurged on his boots (again, couldn't find any used that I liked) although I did get them for 25% off. His boots are the exact same as last year but last year I found them at a used store way cheaper then they should have been (and then sold them this year for a profit )


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## starling&diesel

x-posted from my ddc ... no time to personalize it up for you mamas, my favourite mamas online!

I'm here, I'm here! Not a lot of time to post with personals, but here are some pics and a few details of my imperfect perfect birth.

We aimed for a homebirth and were doing well with it until everything grinded to a halt at about 130am on October 2nd, much to everyone's surprise.
Baby decided he was not going to be born vaginally at all, and had turned himself to block the birth canal. After a very painful and unpleasant trip to Women's Hospital via ambulance (not my proudest moment, hello colleagues), we laboured some more in hopes that he would turn, but he didn't. Many tears later, there I was in the operating room getting the caesarian I'd been so afraid of.
He looks just like his big sister did in those first few hours and days ... it will interesting to see if they resemble each other as they get older.
I left the hospital today, earlier than I should've, but I wanted to get home to E and am glad that I did.

Our little family is together for the first time tonight!





ReplyQuote Multi ../../1331542/queer-and-pregnant-october-november-and-december/20#0


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## AKislandgirl

Oh, I'm all teary looking at those beautiful pictures! Congratulations Mama! I'm so excited for you to be home as a family!

Name??!!

Welcome to the world beautiful boy! He is so beautiful! I just want to kiss his little cheek and breath in that newborn smell!


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## Vegan Princess

Awww yay!!!! SOOOO happy to come on and see this update! CONGRATULATIONS!!!! Welcome to the world little man! I'm sorry you didn't get the birth you dreamed of. But your son is here and he is healthy and that is what matters most in this world! Take it easy mama. Let us know the name and how E is adjusting when you have some free time. Drink in all these precious moments!!!! And I hope you are making tons and tons of milk this time! 

Cindy


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## Mal85

Yay Starling! I am so happy for you guys!! And he is just the most handsome little man, those cheeks look so kissable. Enjoy your babymoon and I hope E is loving him too!

Okay, Sue, you're up then it's my turn! I had a dream last night that the baby was literally falling out of me and I kept telling my mom that I should call my midwife and see what she says. My mom just kept saying "Oh, you could do that for weeks. Don't bother your midwife." I wanted to smack her! IRL, I was just telling my mom yesterday how uncomfortable I've been this week and how crampy I've been and in pain all the time. And she said "You could do that for weeks, ya know." Apparently that made an impression on me because it made its way into my dream.

DH is gone this week and Owyn and I survived our first night without him. I'm such a wimp. I hate sleeping by myself. Although we just got Owyn sleeping well in her new big girl bed, I took her to bed with me last night. The first thing she said this morning was "Where'd my daddy go?" It's rare that one of us leaves town, so she's very confused about him not being here. She talked to him on the phone last night and it was pretty entertaining. She's only recently figured out how to actually talk to someone on the phone and it was so cute listening to her tell him about her day. She really is turning into such a big girl. I just finished reading "Waiting for Birdy", a book a woman wrote while she was pregnant with her second child, describing the changes in their family and the changes in her relationship with her older child, etc. It was really insightful for me and has me paying even more attention to these little moments with Owyn lately.


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## Everrgreen

STARLING!! - He is gorgeous! Such a perfect smooshable little boy  I am so happy for you and your dp!! And E too of course! What does she think? I'm curious what her precocious little mind will say about him  Congratulations to all of you!! And I hope you heal quickly and make lots of milk this time around! Have a wonderful snuggly babymoon with your family!

Mal - Well it won't be too much longer for you either! And I love listening to R talk on the phone, it's hilarious - he tells the person about all kinds of random stuff, he'll just walk around the house mentioning things he sees "there's my dinosaur, and the curtain, and the fridge..." And then when I say he needs to say goodbye it's just "bye" click - and it's over with no warning for the other person lol!


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## Thursday Girl

OH starling he is smooshy and perfect and wonderful! I love him. and E is just stunning, she looks very proud! I am so happy your baby is in your arms now, although I am sorry you didn't get the birth you wanted.

kids talking on phones is cute (but secretly I hate talking on the phone to little kids, luckily my sister in Colorado loves it and all my girls love talking to her)

I made Juniper's halloween costume and now she won't take it off. She is Foofa from yo gabba gabba.



originally I was going to make pants to go with it, but then I realized fleece pants might be too hot so I added a strip of dark pink fleece around the bottom and made it a dress. My sister didn't know what Foofa looked like and looked her up, I accidentally reversed the colors! Opps. Junes does not care so I don't care though...and the dress looks better without clothes underneath it.


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## Mal85

This is kind of off-topic, but needed a question answered. I'm looking at Christmas dresses for my girls and hoping to get them ordered soon (I'm working on getting as much Christmas shopping done now so I don't have to worry about it after the baby gets here). I am in love with these matching Hanna Andersson dresses but have never bought HA before. How's the sizing? On ebay there a NWT dress really cheap, size 50. Would that be safe to buy for the new baby? She'll be 1.5-2 months old by Christmas. It says 6-12 lbs, so I'm not sure if I should risk it or get the next size up... And what size is good for Owyn's age? She wears 3t in most other things.


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## justKate

STARLING, congratulations on your beautiful baby boy! So happy that he made it here safely. As for the birth--try to put it out of your head for a while and process it later. Hopefully everyone at the hospital was gentle and gave you the support you needed to make that hard decision--what else can you do, right? My three bits of advice for c-section mamas: 1) stool softener, 2) pain relief (tylenol 3?), and 3) don't forget to rehydrate. IME the pain/dehydration/emotional impact delayed milk production (6 days for me!) so take extra good care of yourself. Little man is beautiful--can't wait to hear all about him once you're settled! Lots of love to you!









Mal, Aubs wears an 80 in Hanna Anderson tops, not sure about the bottoms. She's sort of between a 2t and 3t--needs 3t for length in the arms/legs but is more of a 2t width. Not sure about infants...HTH.

I love the Foofa costume Courtney! I'll post Cinderella if I can ever get Aubs to put it on.


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## AKislandgirl

Mal: I think you would want to go with a 60 to be on the safe side. 50 might work but it could just be starting to get too small at that point. With a dress I would go with a 90 for Owyn. Fiona can wear both 80 and 90 at this point. The size 80 legging fit her better in the waist but the length is too short. She even has some size 100 jammies that really are a bit too big but work fine for jammies.

Yes, I'm feeling ready now. I thought I'd feel relieved once my mom arrived but in reality I feel a bit like a watched pot. "Feeling anything?" "Will it be tonight" "Wake me if you feel contractions" Ok, mother! In the first place you said you wanted to be a bit early to spend time with Fiona- so do that and leave me alone! Really, I am thrilled she is here but you all know its hard enough to wait in the last few days/weeks without the pressure from someone else.


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## Everrgreen

I'm procrastinating. I have my first 2 midterms on Friday (both on the same day - ugh!) Pathophysiology and Occupational Health. I can't focus at all! I understand all the material and I think I have a lot of it memorized. Hopefully.. I still have tomorrow to study and my bus rides Thursday and Friday morning.

But after my midterms it's Thanksgiving weekend! Yay! I have 5 straight days with no class and no midterms next week. On Saturday I'm taking R to a local fair that I used to go to every year as a kid. I haven't been in 14 years. And we are going to travel to visit my dad and my ex-inlaws (they all live in the same town an hour from here). I'm more interested in my weekend plans than in these midterms I'm trying to study for lol!

AK - Tell your mom to take Fiona out of the house for a while and go have a bubble bath 

Mal - I looked at the Hanna Anderson website - they have some really cute stuff! Which dress are you looking at for your girls? (And isn't it exciting to say 'your girls'?!) I noticed they have matching parent-child stuff! I would love to get a matching mommy and R sweater  Not quite in my budget though - oh well!

Courtney - So cute! She looks so happy


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## Thursday Girl

Sue, totally take Everr's suggestion!!

Everr sounds like a great weekend. Study tomorrow and then enjoy your weekend.

she is REALLY happy about her costume, she won't take it off.


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## Thursday Girl

well as soon as I finished typing that Junes said her stomache hurt and then she puked on the costume...so she finally took it off. Now I have to call to cancel my class I need to become a daisy leader b/c no one is goign to want to babysit a sick kid.


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## Mal85

Ever: I just ordered this one for the new baby. I found it for $17!










I see a few of the same one in Owyn's size (and there have been more added in the last couple of days), but I can't find one for less than $30, so I'm trying to decide if I should bite the bullet and pay that much more for Owyn's or if I should just get one for Owyn that is similar to this one. I'm trying to decide if this other one is similar enough for me. It's only $15, but I'd have to get a sweater to go with it:










Courtney: Poor Junes! Hopefully it was a one time thing? I hate when they're sick, especially pukey sick. Hoping she feels better soon and her costume can get cleaned up!


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## AKislandgirl

Mal: Fiona wore that dress on her first Christmas! I love it!


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## justKate

Mal, I love the first dress. I say get them to match--you won't have that much longer before O doesn't want to look like the baby!

Courtney, I think its awesome that you're going to be a Daisy leader. I did girl scouts for YEARS (like 1st thru 8th grade) and my mom was the leader. It was a lot of work for her, I think, but it was great. Great experiences! And its not a big deal to drag other kids along with you when you need to--my brother was there all the time. Too bad about the costume getting pukey. Always something, right?

Ever, weekend definitely sounds like more fun than midterms. Don't stress--you'll do great. Its really admirable of you to keep a relationship with the ex-ILs. I mean, I know they get it about exDH and all, but geez, it must be hard. Let us know how it goes.

Re. Starling's baby--E had dark dark hair too, right? It seems like I remember her having really dark, pretty hair, and then one day Starling posted a photo of her and she was completely blonde. I was shocked. Wonder if baby boy will be the same way?

Sue, I can imagine how you feel with your mom there. I'm sure its good, overall, but I'd be really annoyed by the questioning.


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Oh very cute! I agree with Kate, get the matching set 

Courtney - Oh no! I hope she feels better soon!

Kate - Yeah it can be a bit emotionally draining spending the day with them. If I'm just visiting my SIL it's ok, she's more like a friend and she is 100% on my side and fills me in on the gossip  But with the parents, ex is the giant elephant in the room that nobody mentions. So it's unnerving not knowing what they think of everything, although I do get the sense that they feel awful and sad about what's happened and that's hard too. Ex isn't really part of their lives anymore either though. They invited me and R to their big Thanksgiving dinner - not ex and his gf! I mostly stay in touch with them for R's sake although I also like seeing everyone too (especially my nephews) but I imagine when R is older he will go visit on his own.

Speaking of ex, I got my first child support payment in August and nothing since. I haven't heard from ex since July and I don't feel like contacting him about this. It is supposed to come right off his paycheck so I don't know why I didn't get it. I called the government agency that takes care of all this and found out a 2nd letter was sent to his employer in September. I wish I knew what was going on. I wish ex would just not be so difficult! Ahh! *Breath in calm.. Breath out rage about ex..*


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## AKislandgirl

Ever: That must be so hard to deal with the lack of child support. It's weird that you aren't getting it even though it should be coming directly out of his paycheck. I'm sorry that you have to add that to your stress load right now.

Mal: matching dresses is my vote too!

We had a busy morning here and now I have Fiona stretched out on the couch watching Diego and my mom napping. DH came home for lunch and told me to look up info on Charleston, Oregon because he wants to apply to a job there. I hope he does! So far I've only found it on the map- it's on the Southern OR coast. So I'm off to look up info about the community... I hope it looks good! Then after Diego- it's nap time for Fiona and Mama!

No baby yet obviously. had an appt today and everything looks good. I told her I didn't want to be checked since it won't change anything. Made an appt for next week in hopes that we can turn it into a well baby visit! I was so calm and ready to wait as long as needed last week- Now I just want to meet my baby!! Lots of cervical cramping just about every night and a fair amount of braxton hicks but no "real" contractions yet. I didn't have any kind of warm up action last time though. Crossing fingers its not more then a few more days!


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## justKate

Sue, I LOVE Coos Bay. Never been there, but we looked at it pretty hard when it was an option on our billet list. I think its really beautiful there. Although you'll have a tough time finding anything as beautiful as Kodiak.... How many weeks/days were you when F arrived?


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## AKislandgirl

I was 39 + 6 days with Fiona- labor started at 39 + 4. Today I'm 39 + 2...


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## starling&diesel

Hello all, reading along and thinking of you all.

*Sue*, I can't wait to hear your fabulous news, when it happens!

Well, low supply strikes again. *Cindy*, don't fool yourself in thinking that you're emotionally prepared for it to happen the second time. It is just as soul-crushing, even if it's only because the realization comes amidst those fierce post-partum hormones kick in. I've spent the whole day sobbing uncontrollably and feeling like a failure, again. Even though I'm armed with the knowledge of what to do. I was so hoping this wasn't going to bother me as much this time. And, rationally, I know that it will all work out, but it's so sad for me.

Thank god for the donor milk bank, that's all I can say.

The pain from the c-section is kicking my butt. It's breaking my heart that I can't scoop Esmé into my arms. It's so hard to do the night parenting with this new baby, because I can't roll over or move without terrible pain. I just hope it starts to get better.

On the great side, Baby is lovely and cuddly and delicious. And yes, Esmé started with pitch black hair too, and she's as blonde as can be now! They look like twins when you put pictures side by side. Absolutely identical. It will be interesting to see what happens as he gets older.

Still no name!


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## Vegan Princess

Awww Starling. I have big huge virtual hugs for you!! That early time of figuring out I needed to supplement and attempts to get my supply up were SO emotional and difficult. I think you are right - the postpartum hormones make things a million times worse. I remember sitting at the dinner table and just crying and crying over nothing - we didn't even know I had supply issues yet. All I can say is that you DO know that all will be fine and this babe will love to nurse and you will still have an amazing nursing relationship, depsite having to use the lactaid. Have you started dom yet? I hope that helps some. I have a hope that starting dom right away, instead of 2 months later will help my supply more next time - but I realize it's highly unlikely I won't have to supplement. I'm sorry about the pain. Here in the states, I think you wouldn't have gone home unitl yesterday. So perhaps it will start to get better from here? I certainly hope so. And I'm sure the nursing issues will seem a bit less daunting when you aren't in so much pain!

Wow, still no name?  Wait until you're of sound mind, I suppose.

Sue: So excited for you!

Everr: OMG! I'm so sorry about what you are dealing with with your ex. That's awful! Insult to injury. Can you contact your attorney or anything?

Mal: Have you had your doc check you yet? I can't believe your little girl will be here in less than a month too!

AFM: I went to an amazing presentation on creativitiy in home and school last night. It was put on by this amazing lady who has run a co-op preschool for 40 yrs (Bev Boss). It's up in Sacramento. My friend and I are going to go visit it. I didn't realize how upset my friend that started the school with me is over the lack of creativity in our kids art projects, etc. I was the one who really wanted play based and the teacher told her why she didn't and my friend went along with it - but not anymore. So now she is wondering if we should find a new teacher. I'm all for trying to do play based. I still don't think it will work out 100% in our space, but it's worth a try. Anyway, she had some cool thoughts about never asking a child what their art means and never modeling something for a child to copy in their art. It should all come from them. And about asking them "how does your story start" instead of "do you have a story to tell". They always have a story to tell.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Ever: I hope you get the child support situation worked out. Is there a government office you can call? It's strange that it's not coming if it's being taken out of his paycheck. My sister had the same issue last year with her daughter's father. Turned out it was a mix-up at the office and the checks were being sent to the wrong person. Hopefully it's just a mistake and not your ex being lame.

Starling: I'm so sorry you're going through the supply issues again. All those PP hormones really magnify everything you're feeling. I'm sending you hugs and hoping you can enjoy this special newborn time without worrying too much about your supply. And you've always described E as such a sensitive person, I'm sure she knows her mama is still there for her and it won't be long before you're feeling better physically, able to do more with her.

Cindy: I haven't been checked yet. I go next Tuesday for my 36 week appt and have thought about having her check me then since I've been so crampy and having a lot of cervical pain. I'm not really expecting an early baby, but I am curious. Any dilation we can get out of the way before labor sounds great to me! I probably won't have her check me again after that until the last week. We have a field trip planned at work that week and it's about two hours away from my hospital, so I think I'll have her check that week to make sure it's okay for me to go on the field trip. I hope you get things worked out with the preschool. It really is a learning process, but your friend seems to have a good grasp. I agree on being careful with the way questions are worded with the kids. It's something I sometimes forget in my own classroom but try to remain aware of. Trying to make the questions as open-ended as possible. Instead of saying "What is it you're painting?" say something like "Tell me about your painting." I try to stay away from questions that would have a yes or no answer so that they have to think a little more about their response.

Sue: Hoping things start happening for you soon, can't wait to see another noob here!

I got an email from work today and they finally found a substitute for me!! That is such a weight lifted off my shoulders. It turns out I know the woman as well, we went to high school together and our husbands work together, so I feel pretty good leaving the kids in her care.

DH has been gone all week for work and wow, it is exhausting taking care of a toddler on my own while so pregnant! I bow down to you, Ever, being on your own with R all the time. I don't know how you do it! He gets back tonight and has taken off work tomorrow to spend the day with Owyn while I'm working. He is going to attempt to brew a new batch of beer while he's home with her for his birthday celebration next weekend (he's turning 30!) It should be fun for both of them. We had a playdate the other day with my old daycare girl. Owyn was so excited to see her, she ran right over and gave her a huge hug and kiss and they played so well together. We planned another playdate for next week. I hope we continue them, I was so worried Owyn would lose her friend when I quit baby sitting.


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## justKate

Oh Starling, huge hugs to you. The kind that knock the air out of you.







We know you are not a failure--this stuff is beyond our control. You've just got to manage what you can (the pain), the best you can. Let DP do as much as possible. We'll be thinking of you.

Sue, so anxious for your baby to arrive! Has your mom settled down at all? I'm concerned about ending up in the same situation when this baby comes--I know my mom will want to come wait it out and I'm really not up for that. 'Course your situation is different because of where you live. But geez, mothers can be wonderful and a PITA at the same time.

Mal, do you think it would be possible to check yourself? Just curious! I was thinking that since I'm more familiar with my cervix than I was pre-last-pg, maybe I could just do it myself when the time comes. But I'm not sure if it would be physically possible.... What a relief to have your sub lined up! It will be easier to hand off lesson plans to someone you know, too.

Cindy, that seminar sounds really neat. I'm glad your friend is on the same page with you now. I think the communication strategies are great--letting the kids come up with their own things instead of conforming them to our expectations. Along the same lines, my mom continually says "good job" to Aubs. I hate it. I tell my mom (out of Aubs' hearing) that no, it was only adequate, but she brushes me off. I guess I just ignore it, since Gma isn't around that often. I hate "good girl" even more. I love "you did it!" and picking one aspect of what she did to comment on--like "I really like the way you used purple there" or "you did X just like Daddy!"

We are actually headed up to my parents' house this afternoon for a long weekend, which is probably why I'm thinking of my mom. Probably won't have internet, but I'm going to check on my phone just in case Sue's baby comes! Will chat more next week.


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## AKislandgirl

Starling: Big hugs mama! Hormones, pain, low supply... it's enough to have any of us sobbing. I wish I could swoop in and help. Just remind yourself its only been a few days and the pain won't interfere with scooping up your big baby too much longer. I'm so sorry about the low supply issue.

My mom has eased up a bit. I told her a watched pot never boils and to just leave me alone! We're pretty much making this Fiona week and hopefully next week will be baby and Fiona week! We've been getting her to story time, music class, etc... and the two of them have worked on various craft projects. I'm glad to have my mom here in Fiona's own comfort zone because when we visit her place Fiona has a hard time connecting with her sometimes- it's really chaotic there and my sensitive girl gets pretty clingy.

I decided against getting checked at my appt yesterday since in reality it won't change anything. I figured not knowing is better then being told nothing has changed at all. I get pretty intense cervical pain every day now though. The braxton hicks feel stronger now too. They kept up all night long last night. Maybe tonight will be the night. Crossing fingers but wouldn't put any money on it!


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## Everrgreen

Starling - Huge hugs! I'm sorry you are having a difficult time right now. Are you sure your supply will stay low? It seems early yet to know for sure. I know with R my supply didn't really get going until he was 5-6 days old (I think it was when we were in the hospital with his jaundice and they gave me one of those super awesome pumps lol!) At that point I was supplementing him because of the jaundice but within another couple days I had enough milk pumped to feed him that (and then latching took a bit longer). Oh wow, all the memories of that are flooding back. It's crazy now to think we've made it almost 3 years! I hope you heal quickly from the surgery. And take your time with naming! Don't feel rushed about that!

Cindy - That art program sounds awesome! I have little moments where I want to do really cool projects with R but it never gets done. And he is just soo not into art! I'd have to force him, which kind of takes away from it lol! We do have a chalkboard wall in the kitchen that he draws on sometimes.. sort of..

Mal - I think I would struggle taking care of R while being 8 months pregnant! I'm glad your dh is back now! And that's nice that work is straightened out for when you leave. It won't be long now - yay!!

Kate - Oh my mom is so bad with the 'good job' or 'good boy' it drives me nuts! I actually had a conversation with her about it and why it bothers me and she was very interested and said she'll try and say things differently. She's a social worker with experience in play therapy and working with kids so you'd think she'd know all this stuff! But at least she was interested and is going to change. Enjoy your weekend away!

Sue - Any day now! Any MINUTE now lol! I always find birth to be so amazing in that way. You can wake up one morning and by the time you go to bed there's a new person in your life 

Re my ex - There is a government agency that deals with it, so thankfully it's out of my hands. They will keep track of the arrears, they will harass him, they will take away his driver's license/passport, and eventually if it continues, they will give him a jail sentence. I'm just hoping he hasn't lost his job or something. It's just annoying, he's annoying.

My first 2 midterms are tomorrow! I'm kind of oddly excited about it lol! I'm still in a 'I Love School' bubble


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## Thursday Girl

starling- so sorry about the pain, give E lots of kisses and soon enough you will be able to sweep her up in your arms. as for supply, maybe it will increase, I think i have heard that with c-sections it can take longer for the milk to come in. No matter what you will handle it and do a great job. I admire you so much for making it through low supply and still getting her breast milk. you are amazing!

Sue- I didn't get checked until I had been in labor for hours, but then I don't even dilate until hours into labor. How did your dilation go last time?

checking your own cervix- i totally want to do that, mostly b/c I am insanely curious as to what being up in higher dilation can feel like that.

Everr, i totally get the i love school bubble. I will be in heaven when i get to start midwifery school.


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## Vegan Princess

Ok Sue - now we're stalking you! Any update? 

I'm going wine tasting tomorrow with a good friend. It will be my first night away from M!! She has a fun day planned with daddy. I can sure use 24 hour to recharge. 

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

oooh, it's been a while since Sue has posted! So exciting!

Cindy - Enjoy your night off! Your first night EVER away from M?? ENJOY! I'm getting another weekend away in November, I love my weekends away 

Courtney - When do you get to start midwifery school?? That is something I would have loved to do. I think someday I might like to become a doula, although I would only be able to do post-partum work because I can't be on-call.

My midterms went well! And now my nice long weekend begins! R was up early so I started Winnie The Pooh on the laptop and we are still in bed. Nice lazy morning  But now it's time to get breakfast and get ready for the fair!


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## Thursday Girl

Everr, i was going to start next year or going to try to get accepted to the school, but with the new baby things have been pushed back, so the answer is, I have no idea! I think that if I don't get a birth assistant job when the new babe is a bit older I will become a post partum doula. Hubs has a crazy schedule so I pretty much do whatever I am going to do with all the kids or I find someone who can watch them b/c he can't be relied upon, not b/c he's flaky, it's just we are so freaking broke if there is work he has to take it. It sucks big time, especially since I have supported him in every career move he's ever made so it sort of feels like he's not supporting mine, but when you look at the reality of the situation I don't see how we could do things differently anyway. At least he works in town now, so I do have his help when he's not working, which sadly has been too often lately.

Cindy- have so much fun!!


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## Thursday Girl

cough cough, sue-facebook.


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## AKislandgirl

She's here...

Just a quick update! Born last night at 5:06 pm. Fiona was at the birth and everything was wonderful! Her name is Maeve Penelope and she weighed 6 pounds 14 ounces and is 20 inches long. She's super mellow! She looks so much like her big sister did at birth! Fiona can't get enough of her! She was there at the birth and was all smiles. The first words out of her mouth when she was born were, "Mama is so happy!"


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## Thursday Girl

she's amazing, congrats momma!!!


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## starling&diesel

Sue! Congratulations, mama!

Welcome to the world, Maeve Penelope!


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## justKate

Oh my goodness, I nearly missed it! Congrats, Sue!! She looks so much bigger than 6-13. Can't wait to hear the whole story once you're settled.

Starling, still thinking of you. Hope you're healing and that E is coping well.

We just got back so not a lot of time to write--will be back to catch up tomorrow!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Oh I knew you had to be in labor!!! Welcome Maeve! So exciting.  Did you have her in the hospital? I couldn't tell. I hope Fiona is doing well and loving her. The pictures were just precious.

Starling: Hoping you are feeling better!!

I had a lovely time away. But the hotel was loud and music blasted until after 1 am. They did warn us and it was absolutely the only thing available, even weeks ago. I of course forgot to buy earplugs. So I am exhausted. And DH woke me up by asking me to come home sooner than later bc he was tired and not feeling great. We still were able to have breakfast and browse a little before heading home. But so much for a nice, uniterrupted sleep without M. Wine tasting was great. Being with my friend was great!

Ok, M is badgering me. Can't think anymore.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Sue - Yay!!! Congratulations!!! She is gorgeous!! She does look a lot like Fiona. And I love the name. Share the birth story when you can! I hope everything is going well 

Starling - How are things going? Does your sweet boy have a name yet?

We just got back from our visiting. R is tired and cranky and won't sleep. I think we will both be going to sleep soon though!


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## Mal85

Sue- Congrats!!! She is just beautiful. So adorable how Fiona reacted. I can't wait to hear more details. Ah! This means I'm next!!!

Cindy-Glad you had a good time, even if it was cut short.

I have had a crazy, busy weekend and so looking forward to this week. Friday night, the ladies in my family threw me a little surprise shower. We had planned a shopping trip for Saturday and were supposed to get together Friday to discuss the details (where we were going, when to meet, etc) and they turned it into a shower! It was a lot of fun and we got a few necessities for the baby, some winter clothes, a new diaper bag, etc. Saturday, we shopping all day long and I was exhausted! We left at 8 in the morning and didn't get back until 9 last night. You know the phrase "shop til you drop"? I seriously thought my feet were just going to give out by the last couple of stores we stopped at. I was on a mission though--to get Owyn's Christmas stuff done so I don't have to worry about ti after the baby comes. And I succeeded. Her dress came in the mail Friday and all her gifts were bought Saturday. The only thing I'll still need is some Christmas PJs for her and that will have to wait until the stores get more Christmas stuff out.

Then today, we had birthday parties for two of my nieces all afternoon, so we are officially worn out! I only work tomorrow and half a day on Wednesday this week, so I plan to have some veg-out time with Owyn this week to recover. I'm 36 weeks today and it's starting to feel pretty close. Time to start getting the baby clothes and diapers washed and put away. I did start a list of things I need to get for the hospital and postpartum needs.

Tomorrow is DH's 30th birthday so I'm going to try to find some motivation to make him a nice dinner for his birthday, wish me luck!


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## Thursday Girl

uggh- my medicaid wasn't fully approved like I thought it would be, not sure what we are going to do b/c we certainly can NOT afford over $4,000 for the midwife and birth center, Hell we can't afford $20.00 for my daughter to go on a field trip, my sister is paying for it. Unless this gets straightened out we might just be going unassisted, which I would prefer not to do, although I guess it could get my future midwife skills a boost. I'm going to try and call them in the morning and see what's going on. you can only reach them if you call right when they open, otherwise you get the "we are expeirencing heavy call volume please call later." and then they hang up on you.


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## starling&diesel

Courtney ... I hope it all works out! You certainly have the experience and knowledge to do it yourself, but I would imagine it would be reassuring to have a midwife too.

And after eight days our little one has a name!

Introducing Hawksley Solace ....


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## Everrgreen

Starling - Love it! I guess your first instincts about the name were right! I hope everything is going well 

Courtney - That really really sucks, I'm sorry  I hope that you are able to get through to medicaid and get what you need. If not, do you have any doula friends or other well-experienced mama's who could come?

Mal - Sounds busy but fun! You're so organized! I guess it's a good thing though because it won't be long now!! R was born at 36 weeks... 

Cindy - Glad you had a nice weekend away even if the sleep wasn't so great! That just means you need to go again 

I am exhausted. It has been such a busy weekend with 2 giant turkey dinners in a row. Luckily I don't have class until Thursday. Tomorrow R goes to daycare so I can get some much needed cleaning done. And some studying too. I'm having a hard time with some stuff right now. I'm feeling really overwhelmed but not with school/parenting, more with my life in general. I think I'm still struggling with some emotions from the separation. And I'm lonely but yet I feel like I'm too emotionally damaged to be in a relationship. I can't figure out what to do or what I want or anything.


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: Mmm I can't wait for our thanksgiving - only I hope I don't have to cook everything. I'm sorry you are having a tough time. You have every right to. You have been through so much and are so strong - but I'm sure it cant' just be gotten over that easily! You are not damaged goods mama!!

Starling: He is so tiny and precious!!! love love love! I'm glad you settled on the name you liked best from the beginning.  Are you feeling any better?

Courtney: Ugh! I hope you can get through to them and get it figured out. How frustrating!! I hate that births that cost the system so much less are so inaccessible to most people. My midwife/birth center took medical and had a major sliding scale. And medical majorly screwed them last summer and they had to close. So sad since that midwife tries sooo hard to make natural birth available to many women who would never have another option.

AFM: I got inspired to beef up our crafting stuff. Today we bought lots of paints and things to glue at Michaels. Then we went to Ikea and got an aisle/chalkboard for $14! Makenna has been so entertained today. Good timing bc it's raining again.

Cindy


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## justKate

Ever, I agree, not damaged goods. But I can imagine how you feel, especially after a weekend of family stuff. I wish I had the words to help you feel better. Hopefully a good night's sleep and some cleaning will wash away some of the yucky feelings.









Cindy, sounds like you guys had a fun day. We LOVE paint around here. Sort of annoying because I'm not always in the mood for prep and clean up. I think we're going to try some stamps for Christmas. So, I know I said (or meant to say?) that I wasn't going to bug you, but if I remember right you're about 7 DPiui, right? Testing?

Oh my goodness Mal, you need a break. Sounds like a movie day is in order. What did you find for Owyn for Christmas?

Courtney, what a nightmare. Any chance you could go down to the office and deal with them in person? It sounds really really aggravating.

Starling, beautiful pictures! Hope you're healing alright, and I hope E is coping well. And the name is perfect, just as we knew it would be. I like the different meaning with the spelling change--Solace vs. Solis.

Sue, congrats again. Love the name, hope you are settling in well.

Nothing really going on here. I'm 14 weeks and feeling good. Bleeding finally stopped almost exactly a week after it started, and I think I'm feeling baby move now and then. I'm not telling people because I know my family will think I'm crazy, but those tickles inside my right hip bone every night can only be baby limbs. I'm taking the MPRE (ethics exam) the first weekend of November, so I need to start studying for that. I'm going to try to start going to the library or a coffee shop while Aubs is at pre-school on Tues/Thurs mornings and get studying. I'm really not in the mood to take a test, but the last time I took it was in 2005 and Virginia requires it to have been in the last two years...whatever. It wasn't hard, just annoying. Hopefully my brain is still capable of studying and taking tests. Sometimes I wonder.

Aubs is pretty much the same. She's experiencing Fall for the first time, and she tells me about the leaves falling every day. Cold weather (cold for us) is new too, and she says "burrr, cold!" every time we go outside in the morning. Even though it's like 60 degrees still in the morning, and 75+ during the day. Weekend at my parents' was good--she got to collect eggs, chase the hens, and play with her second cousins (5.5 and 6 mos.). It is good to be home though.


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: I took the trigger exactly 10 days ago. The line is almost non-existant. Super duper uber squinter. I am about 9 dpo. I know I should be glad for the trigger to be gone and to know any darker line I see is real...but mostly I'm just sad to see the tests turning negative. I guess I was hoping the lines would start getting darker today. I know 9 dpo is so early...but I can't help but feel like it's just not going to happen this month! We'll see. I will keep you guys posted.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

Talked to medicaid this morning and the insurance will be active tomorrow. I think it was a "let's see home many people we can not cover" ploy.

Starling they are so cute, and I love the name you went with. Also 8 days old is nothing, my friend was 9 days and then only because the midwife HAD to send in the birth certificate. and another momma on mdc didn't name her daughter until she was 3 months old.

Everr, you are totally not damaged goods your ex was just a damaged individual! I wish I could come see you, hang out, give you a hug and let the kids play.

Cindy- yup paint is great! we have apretty decent art supply cabinet. I order every once in awhile from discount school supplies and load it up.


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## Everrgreen

I wrote some more crap about how I'm feeling but it's depressing and I don't want to dump my mental stress here. I was also thinking that maybe before I was naive and being cynical about love is more normal. I don't think anything is going to change the way I am now so I guess I'll just deal and maybe some day things will be ok.

Courtney - That's awesome that you got the medicaid! Frustrating that they make it so complicated :/

Cindy - It's still early! Lots of women don't get BFPs until their period is due or even after! Keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Kate - I'm glad to hear everything is going well! Yay for baby movements! I can still remember how R's first little movements felt (at the time I just figured it was gas, although I also remember the first time I felt something and knew it was definitely NOT gas!) Good luck with your studying!

Oh, and R is also really excited about the seasons (and he's always experienced them!) When he see's leaves falling down he reminds me that after the leaves fall down the snow comes! And when the snow comes he gets to wear his boots (that's the most important part )

He's off at daycare today and I'm supposed to be studying, so I guess I better do that!


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## starling&diesel

*Everr* ... we always want to hear how you're doing ... for real.


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## Mal85

Ever: Don't ever feel like you can't dump your stress here. That's what we're here for, dump away!







Owyn doesn't seem to notice the seasons too much. We had such a hot summer here though. Now every time we go outside she says "Mommy, it's not hot!" She must be as happy about the cooler weather as I am!

Courtney: What a relief! If only they didn't have to make it so complicated.

Had an appt with the midwife today. I'm 1 cm and 50% which means... basically nothing. At least the BH have gotten me 1 cm in, only 9 more to go right?! Also, I gained 6 lbs in two weeks. She didn't seem concerned and thinks it's mostly water weight. My ankles have suddenly disappeared and she says baby is very "floatie", lots of fluid in there giving her plenty of room to move around still. She is head down though and pretty sure she's there to stay at this point.

I had a half day at work today and am off the rest of the week! I have lots of work to get done over the long weekend though. I'm hoping to get all my lesson plans done so next week all I need to do is organize materials. Should be do-able, I only have about 2.5 weeks of planning left to do.

I took Owyn with me today and usually all we do is listen to the heartbeat and chat for a while. Today she was blown away since I actually had to get undressed and get my GBS swab and was checked. First, she noticed my "blanket" and a few minutes later noticed my pants on the chair (I guess she didn't realize when I got undressed). She was very confused, had to check under the sheet and said "Mommy, you got no pants, just legs!"

And, can I just say, moving her into a twin size bed has totally given us the miracle we needed! I don't know what is so different for her compared to the toddler bed, but she has only woke up once in the middle of the night since we got the new bed! She was waking every night, sometimes 2-3 times a night, in the toddler bed. Personally, I really think it's just more comfortable. The toddler bed had a crib mattress and they're always really firm. Her twin mattress has a pillow top and we bought her new pillows with it and it has made all the difference in the world!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: So cute about her noticing the no pants! I'm sorry you still have 9 cm left to go but I'm glad to hear you aren't gonna go too early from being on your feet. Your time is going to be here SOOOOO soon!!!!

Everr: Please don't edit yourself! We are all friends after all this time - not just about toddler stuff either.

Courtney: Phew! I wonder how many people really don't bother to look into it and just accept it.

My mom arrives tomorrow.  Looking forward to her visit.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Hi guys! Reading along and just wanted to check in! We are doing great. Fiona has done really well with the adjustment so far. I thought she'd turn into a nursing fiend but she actually went almost 2 days with out nursing right when Maeve was born (one day while I was in labor and the next). I was amazed she didn't ask. Now its pretty much the going to bed and wake up nursing. Although I did talk her into it a few times when my milk came in... wowsers, I had forgotten about that! Night time is the hardest time since she doesn't want anything to do with DH if she wakes up. Sometimes she'll wake up, I'm up feeding Maeve... you get it. It's sort of a nightmare. Hopefully she'll get back to sleeping better soon.

I don't have time for personals but have to say... *Starling:* love the pictures. The padraig shot is fantastic. We may have to copy that one...even I have a pair! and *Everr:* Mama, that is why we are here. Dump away. You've got to get it out somewhere!

I'll get some more pictures up one of these days and I want to write up Maeves birth story too. It was really amazing. I used hypnobabies and loved it. Fiona was with us at the hospital for her birth and called out... there is her head! as she was crowning. Everyone was impressed that she knew what was going on!  I'll be back!


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## Everrgreen

Well, I'm just tired. I'm lonely and I'm tired of always doing everything by myself. It's exhausting and it sucks. Even the fun stuff that I plan for R and I to do ends up being exhausting. And I know I should be thankful because I have a lot of great things in my life. But at the end of the day it would be nice to have someone to be with. You know that feeling you have when your partner holds you and you just feel like everything is ok, like you are loved and safe, and you can cry and they will just hold you and you can breath and feel better. I haven't had that feeling in almost 3 years. When everything sucks and I need to cry I'm alone and it physically hurts to not have someone there. And there's nothing I can do about it. Because dating is impossible. And even if I did meet someone I still have the whole emotionally damaged thing to overcome. I don't know how to trust someone. I'm a total cynic about love and marriage. Why would anyone want to date someone like that? Ugh, I can't figure this out, I can't figure out how to be happy. I feel like any day now I'm going to completely lose it. I'm so exhausted from it all.

Anyway, that's it I guess


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## justKate

Ever, vent away. I wish we were nearby to give you some support in person, even if it were just to hang out and bitch about life out loud. I can imagine how dating would feel impossible. I can't imagine wanting to date, or even knowing what to do at this point. And yeah, it sucks being the one to do EVERYTHING. All the time. And always having to be the strong one, and the on time one. And never letting anyone see the cracks....









My last serious relationship before DH wrecked me pretty bad (drugs, fights, rehab, and that's the PG-13 stuff), and i remember the hopelessness--and I didn't have a toddler to manage. I know it's nothing like the burdens that you have, but what helped me start dating again was deciding that I was going to put myself first and be completely honest with myself and everyone else. I didn't WANT to be alone, even then, but since the dating pool seemed to be comprised of leaches and s&!tbags, well screw them, I'd have some fun and make it all about me. And that's not my personality. At all. When I met DH, he asked for my phone number while I was working. I asked if he seriously thought I would give my number to a stranger, and he explained that it was worth a try. I gave it to him and told him not to call me for 2 weeks because I was in the middle of finals. Bitchy, right? So my point is, I think its okay to be cynical and untrusting. That's stuff that you build. So you meet someone for coffee in a place where R can play (or for a quick lunch while he's at school), and if the guy decides you're too bitchy or cynical or whatever because you're honest about your feelings about relationships, or you put too much out there, or whatever, F him. At least you enjoyed your coffee, right?

Anyway I know that maybe was a crappy pep talk, but I completely believe that there is someone who would be happy to date you, cynicism, untrusting, baggage and all. Deep breaths mama. You are so strong.


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## starling&diesel

I'd date you, Ever!


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## Thursday Girl

Kate, I actually thought it pretty much rocked, you seem to have a way with talking to people, you just always know what to say.

Everr- bitch away, that's why we are here. my DDC with my almost 6 year old has members that still talk to this day and we tell each other everything we wouldn't share anywhere else. It helps I suppose that we have a private board, but that's how I think it should be. Momma's need each other for all LIFE stuff not just kid stuff. After all, only one facet of us is our 2 year olds.

can't wait for your birth story. cute about the calling the arrival of the head.

Mal, how funny, My josie noticed when I was pregnant with Junes and told the midwife about how the baby was going to come out of my vagina. lol.

It's my 9 year anniversary, we aren't doing anything today. He's working and the girls and i have girl scouts. well i guess he is making me some crab legs for when I get back from scouts, but it will be time for the kids to go to bed. In a week or so we will go do a date night.


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## Everrgreen

Thanks







I appreciate the love and advice. I think I would like to try dating again (even though my first attempt last winter was a total failure and gave me even more reason not to date). But there's still the problem of it being impossible. I browse the online selection once in a while but the guys are either sketchy or they don't respond. And I don't do anything where I would meet someone. So it's just not going to happen. Maybe some day. I'm frustrated with it all though, it really does feel so hopeless and I hate that.

And while I'm venting: I finally heard from my ex and I guess he lost his job for a while but has one now and will start paying child support, so that's ok I guess. But the fact that he lost his job and is now starting a new one means he is not likely to get his own line of credit to pay back the mass amounts of debt I'm still carrying for him. He didn't mention coming to see R at all in the email. And this is exactly why I'm not sure if dating is even worth it.

But, if any of you know any single 30-something men in Ontario, let me know and I will attempt a date 

Courtney - I had a dream about you - you were announcing that the new baby was a girl, except you said 'and that makes 5 girls!' So my dream was messed up on the numbers.. Unless you're carrying twins 

AK - Glad things are going well! I'm looking forward to the birth story!

Cindy - Testing??


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## Thursday Girl

That's a pretty funny dream Everr. My mom had twin girls (My sister and I) with her 4th pregnancy and until this pregnancy I always wanted twin girls. I have been wondering though b/c little avocado moves SO MUCH! but then i remember how long it took for them to find the heartbeat at 12 weeks and my womb wasn't even that big so I think probably not.

wish you lived here, I know a great guy who would so love to settle down and have a family, he does talk a lot but IS nice and helpful, and works hard. BUT he only works and hangs out with his brothers, mom and dad, and sometimes my hubs so he never has a chance to meet girls. You will get to date eventually and you will find a great guy someday. It is true that you tend o have to go through a bunch of duds to find the right one, at least I did, but it made me realize right away that he was a winner.


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## Vegan Princess

Testing? Who me? Every day. Tomorrow is my official test day. My f***ing trigger has still not gone away!! 13.5 days past trigger and I got a faint line this morning. But I did get some BFNs last night and the subsequent tests today that weren't FMU were BFN. So I do believe the trigger is finally almost gone. I would be willing to bet my test tomorrow morning will be BFN - same as last time - faint positives up until the day before my official test date, Last time I thought it was a chemical preg - now I think the trigger just takes forever to leave my body. Like twice as along as a lot of people. No clue why. Anyway, I don't have any hope that this is the start of a preg or anything bc it's getting fainter, not darker. Or if it is a preg, it's got to be a chemical, not a healthy one. So that's my update. I just found out a friend from a TTC thread I'd been on with for ages lost her rainbow baby at 23 weeks and 2 days (after she had a horrible miscarriage at 12 weeks)! I am heart broken for her! It makes me scared to ever be pregnant again anyway. So in a way I am a bit relieved to not be.

My mom is here right now. Enjoying her visit. She and M are in looking through my jewelry box from when I was a little girl.  M is definitely a girly girl.

Cindy

PS: Sue - I got the books. Thank you so much!!!


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## justKate

Cindy, I'm so pissed off for you. Anxious to hear what your doc says about the next steps. Gosh, losing a baby at 23 weeks--or losing a baby at all, really--I can't imagine the devastation. I guess its a stillbirth after 20 weeks, right? But I can't imagine that it matters when you lose a little one. Good friends of my parents' lost their son (suicide) on Sept. 24th...can't remember how old he was, born in '87? I think losing a child is losing a child, regardless of how long or short of a time you've had them. It just should never happen.

Ever, the thing is, you DO stuff where you could meet someone. You just never know. You take R places, you go to class, you have neighbors, you live life. That's all stuff that guys do too. I think it will happen when you're least expecting it.


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## Mal85

I agree with Kate, Ever! I have no real words of advice from my own experiences, but I've seen it happen. My sister had two horribly bad experiences resulting in her being a single mom to two toddlers and had sworn off dating. She had no interest in meeting anyone, was working nights at a nursing home and pretty much set on not meeting anyone. She literally ran right into the night delivery guy while she was working, in the middle of the night. They've now been married almost 6 years and had two more daughters together. It can happen!!

Cindy, I'll keep holding out hope a few more days on your behalf. I want it so badly for you!! Owyn is such a girly girl too. I honestly don't know where she came from, I'm pretty much the opposite of a girly girl. She has insisted on wearing a skirt every day this week and it must be a twirly skirt so she can spin around in it. She's suddenly obsessed with head bands and hair bows, and she asks me to paint her fingernails and toenails several times a week. I'm scared for the teenager to come!


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Did you test this morning? I'm staying hopeful for you!

Well I suppose I could randomly bump into a decent guy. I'll have to work on my attitude though.. I'm pretty sure I give off a 'don't even think about talking to me' vibe lol! When I'm with R, it's busy and 100% focused on him. And my schedule for school this semester has me getting off the bus and going to class and then immediately back on the bus. So it's not like I have any real free time for socializing. I don't know. I wish there was something fun I could do without R and meet new people.

Anyway,

I'm attempting to get R to take his nap without me (I already nursed him and laid down with him for a while but when I was sneaking off he woke up and had a meltdown). So I told him to go to sleep and I would be sitting on the couch. A few minutes later I heard "Mommy I'm here" and he was out of the room. So I took him back in and he was crying and I said "You can go to sleep without me, just like at daycare, and if you need anything I'm just on the couch" and through his tears he said "Mommy I need anything!" lol! Oh dear.. He's in there now though and isn't crying so hopefully he'll fall asleep.


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## starling&diesel

*Ever* ... I predict that you're going to meet your next bloke at school.

*Cindy* ... I still have my fingers crossed for you!


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## Vegan Princess

Not pregnant! This morning's cheapie did get the faintest of lines after forever but the $tree and FRER were both negative. The tests are just super sensitive and that trigger lingered forever. So I guess we'll be doing our last IUI in about 12 days. Then I have 3 consults set up to decide which clinic to use for IVF. If IUI doesn't work, IVF will probably be at the end of January. And if that doesn't work, I hope to try with donor eggs by March. So hopefully I'll have a baby by next Christmas - one way or another! I'm a bit bummed, of course. I knew it was going to be neg. But still. I'm trying not to be depressed for my mom's visit - but not doing a great job. She says I'm grumpy.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Starling - I hope you're right! This whole thing is really new to me. Ex and I started dating in high school, so I really have no idea how to do things in the adult world. Like Mal's story of her sister bumping into the delivery guy - if it were me I would quickly say sorry and move along. There wouldn't be any conversation that could lead to a number exchange or anything. And Kate's story - nobody has ever asked for my phone number ever. I just don't get how this stuff works.

Cindy - Big huge hugs. I'm so sorry. Be grumpy and don't feel guilty about it. I wish you didn't have to go through this. It really sucks and is just not fair at all. I'm hoping with everything I've got that your last IUI gives you your miracle baby


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## starling&diesel

*Ever* ... It will happen! The reason there are delivery man or random-stranger-phone-number stories is because there was a spark. If we 'sparked' with everyone we met, we'd have no time for anything BUT dating. I assure you, you will 'spark' with someone, and that's the difference. Promise. And this is from a consumate dater who knows a thing or two about sparks.

One thing that will help is if you let the universe know that you're open to love. Here's an easy love spell ... Write your description of your dream man in minute detail, sprinkle sugar (sweetness) and cayenne (spice!) on it, fold it, then wrap it in a piece of flannel (warmth), tie it up with twine (strength) and then burn it in a circle of small rocks outside, letting the smoke go up into the sky, and the ash mix back into the earth. Call me hokey, but this spell works! Be specific. And ask for what you want! I can't promise that it'll work right away, but it will work.

You can add whatever elements you want. Good luck!


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## Everrgreen

Starling - A bit hokey ;o) But I will try it, you never know! Actually I'm going to visit friends next weekend, one is married but the other is relationship-challenged so maybe she will do it with me 

mckittre had a blog posted of their travels and a little video! I think most of us can get to it on fb but starling if you're interested it's here: http://www.groundtruthtrekking.org/blog/?p=2003


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy: Big hugs! I agree, go ahead and be grumpy! I hope so much for you that this next time is it. I'm glad you got the books too!

Everr: I had sworn off dating and men when I met DH. I agree, sparks happen! And it will for you too! I actually did something similar to Starlings love spell with a friend of mine a few months before I met DH... you never know! 

We are settling into life with two babes here. It is going pretty well although my heart breaks when both girls need me at the same time. I don't think DH understands how hard that is on me. I know we will get through it... just not always gracefully. And I'm totally embarrassed by the number of Diego episodes we have had on around here! She does love her baby though and tells me all the time, I just love her. She smothers her with kisses all the time.

Here are a few pictures...


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## AKislandgirl

A long post with Maeve's birth story...

Maeve Penelope's Birth Story

On Thursday (oct 6th) I felt like things were different somehow. The Braxton hicks and cervical cramping that I had been having for weeks seemed stronger and like there was more oomph in them. I didn't tell anyone because I didn't want to get them all excited and have it amount to nothing. Fiona didn't want to nap but I knew I needed sleep so we cuddled on the couch and I put Diego on for her while I dozed. I'd wake up, put another episode on and fall back asleep.

By the time Brian came home from work I began to have a couple real contractions but they were few and far between so I didn't say anything. After dinner I asked him if he really did have to go to work tomorrow because I might have other plans for him! I took a bath and got Fiona down for the night and the contractions began to come at a more regular time. I told Brian but not my mom just in case they fizzled out. They didn't!

I tried to go to bed and did manage a little sleep but around midnight I had to breath through them and found I needed to move around to get more comfortable. I didn't want to wake Fiona so we got up and moved to the couch. I utilized my hypnobabies to get through contractions and slept between them. It was working really well and I managed to get some rest that way. I did throw up several times in the night, which was the same for my labor with Fiona.

Things were in full swing by morning. I listened to some more of the hypnobabies tracts and just relaxed through each contraction. Brian was amazed at how calm I was through them and could barely tell when they were coming except for a slight change in my breathing. I can honestly say that I never felt like things were super painful just a lot of pressure. It was awesome! The contractions did start to get more intense although not really closer then 5 minutes apart.

We called our Doula at that point and she came over close to noon. As soon as she arrived they got closer and closer. We called our Dr. at around 12:30. She offered to come to the house to check my dilation and listen the baby's heart rate but couldn't be here until 2:00. We told her great but within 10 minutes I knew I wanted to just get to the hospital so we called her back and said meet us there instead. We were at the hospital around 1:00.

I got a room right away and was checked. I was 5 centimeters! Yeah! Such great news after being at 1 cm for so long with Fiona. It was great to hear that I was progressing. I told the nurse I'd like to get in the tub and she said as soon as she could monitor the baby I could go for it. I was on the monitor for about 15 minutes. Still contracting and staying really mellow and calm through them. I started to feel really nauseous again at that point. The nurse said she wanted to check me again and I was at 8 cm! No tub for me, things were moving too fast.

My mom called and said she was ready to bring Fiona up to the hospital. Brian said great and they headed over. I kept up with my hypnobabies techniques through the contractions. Brian was a great help with taking my deeper into hypnosis. I felt really good. Zoya, our doula, was great about suggesting different positions for me as well. I was feeling really supported and good through all of this.

I began to feel pushy and was checked and had just a small lip of cervix left. They all encouraged me to just find a good position and do what felt good to me. I was feeling a bit discouraged because I felt like this part was taking a long time. Brian just kept working with me to keep my spirits high. At this point my back really began to hurt so I tried different positions and having Zoya push on my back. I got through it but I felt like this was the hardest part.

Pushing became involuntary quite soon. My body was just doing its own thing I tried to work with it. I found that lying on my side with my leg up was the most comfortable position for me. I used deep moaning and just went with it. Fiona and my mom came back into the room and I made sure they had Fiona in a spot where she could see well. My water suddenly burst with a pop! Woo Hoo!

Within a few minutes of my water breaking the baby moved down and her head was crowning. Oh such pressure! But I was so happy to be at that point and knew we would see our girl so soon. I tried hard to listen to Laura, as I didn't want to tear. (and I didn't!) It is hard to resist pushing and slow down at that point though. I reached down and felt her head, which was so encouraging! Fiona called out, "there is my baby's head!" She was out moments later! Our sweet Maeve! Fiona said, "My mama is so happy!" and I was! She was born on Oct 7th at 5:06pm, after about 20 hours of labor. This was half the time as Fiona's labor.

Maeve looked so much like her sister! She was just beautiful with a head full of blonde hair. She had some trouble with her breathing and was doing lots of grunting. The worked with her to try to get it cleared but determined she needed to be on oxygen for a bit. Laura reassured me that she would be fine she was just slow to get going. All the while, she never left my chest. Everything was peaceful and they just did their thing. Laura later explained that babies that come out super fast like Maeve did often have trouble transitioning. She was really grunty and her heart rate a bit sporadic. I think she was on the oxygen for about and hour and a half. The grunting slowly stopped and she would breathe calmly for a bit. Then I brought her to the breast and she latched on like a champ. Everything evened out&#8230; her breathing, her heart rate, her oxygen saturation levels. She was good to go!

I am so happy that I used the hypnobabies program. It really works. I really feel that Maeve's peaceful labor and delivery are why she is such a calm girl in these early days. We are just loving her up! Fiona can't get enough of her baby sister. She most often calls her my baby sister and sometimes Maebe. She gets smothered in kisses all the time!


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## justKate

I had a big post typed yesterday but my internet was flaky and lost it all...

Anyway, wanted to say, Cindy, definitely be grumpy and grieve a little. You don't deserve this (not that anyone really does) but you especially.









Ever, I had a story typed about being called the ugly friend...basically just wanted to encourage you to be open to things, but staying cynical. You have a lot to offer someone and a decent guy is going to see that when the time is right.

Sue, thanks for sharing your story!! It sounds like a really perfect birth. I've thought a lot about hypnobabies, but I worry that I'm too bitchy--like I'd be listening to it thinking "oh come on" the entire time. I have a good friend that's a hypnobirthing instructor, but she's on the wrong coast.... Guess that's something I need to look in to! Maeve really is beautiful, just like Fiona. And don't feel bad about watching too much Diego. We all have those days, even without a newborn.

Starling, how are you feeling?


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## Thursday Girl

Everr- I had also sworn off guys and dating at one point, just dated to many a-holes. I was re-introduced to Chris and he ended up being theone who I was waiting for.

Cindy- I am angry with the universe on your behalf, I just want to scream it's not damn fair!

Sue- Maeve looks like a baby doll! Thanks for sharing the story. yep, and nothing wrong with some diego. June is watching yo gabba gabba rightnow. (I got food poisoning last night and I am feeling pretty depleted.)

So June has started nursing her baby doll more, in fact with the food poisoning I didn't nurse her to sleep or this morning yet, so she sat and nursed her own baby doll. . YAY! Now if I could just get her to move to her own bed. If you ask her where her bed is she points to her room and says "My room" and sometimes she even has us tuck her into bed when we tuck her sisters in, but then she comes into our bed after awhile.


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## Everrgreen

AK - Beautiful girls! Thank you for sharing your birth story! It sounds like everything went perfectly and you had lots of love and support - yay!

Courtney - I hope you are feeling better! Are you trying to get Junes in her own room before the baby comes?

Thanks again for the support! I go through times where I'm perfectly fine, and R is all I need and I'm actually happy that I get to have this amazing life with just the 2 of us doing what we want without worrying about anything else. But then I also have phases where I feel like something is missing - my lonely phases  And it seems my lonely phases get more difficult each time they come back. In reality I don't have time for a relationship right now anyway so I guess it's better this way.

I've had a day of studying/procrastinating and now it's time to go pick R up from daycare! I miss him when he's there.. but then he comes home and I want to send him back :/ He has soo much energy and never stops talking and is into everything and trying to do everything by himself. The noise, the chaos, the new mess every time I turn around... Hmm, maybe I should wait before I go pick him up lol!


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## Thursday Girl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Everrgreen*
> 
> I've had a day of studying/procrastinating and now it's time to go pick R up from daycare! I miss him when he's there.. but then he comes home and I want to send him back :/ He has soo much energy and never stops talking and is into everything and trying to do everything by himself. The noise, the chaos, the new mess every time I turn around... Hmm, maybe I should wait before I go pick him up lol!


haha,, i feel like this with my kids all the time!!!!

I am trying to move junes to her own room before baby arrives.


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## Everrgreen

*sigh* Last night after R had his bedtime num-num I asked if he still gets milk and he said 'no, empty', I asked if there were just empty this time or if they are always empty, he said 'always empty'  I've also talked to him in the past about when he's older he won't need num-num to fall asleep and we can just snuggle instead - well after the lights were out and we were falling asleep (snuggling, of course) he all of a sudden said 'when I'm big I won't have num-num anymore, it's all gone'. So I told him it was ok if he still needed num-num but when he's ready then he won't need it anymore and we will still snuggle, he seemed ok with that. But the whole thing has me feeling a bit sad. I had kind of assumed my milk was gone because I've gotten a lot smaller recently and I didn't notice any 'fullness' even when I've spent 2-3 nights away. I am totally ready for him to wean but it is still kind of sad that there's no milk there. And that the wheels are now spinning in his head about not needing it anymore. I'm not sure how it will end because it is such a part of our bedtime routine, will he just one day say 'no I just want to snuggle'? He did still want to nurse this morning though so I guess it's not going to be over suddenly.

How is nursing going for everyone else (for those still nursing)? Do you still have milk? I guess pregnancies and new babies will change things too!


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## justKate

Ever, I think its sort of sad and sweet at the same time. Maybe you could just ask R if he wants snuggles tonight instead of num-num? Not entirely child-led, but not harmful I don't think.

For me, I hope I can nurse this one longer than Aubs. I was DONE with her by 18 months--just couldn't take it anymore. Maybe this one will have a disposition that makes nursing more pleasant. I'd really like to get to 2 or 2.5 with this one.

Courtney, I've started putting together a room for Aubs with the hope that we can move her bed in there some time before baby comes. I'm not all that optimistic.

I really need to get studying for the mpre on 11/5. I've done like 1/8 of what I need to do...I just don't feel like it, although the material is easy (I've done it before) and I sort of like reading something other than Dr. Seuss for a change. My plan for tomorrow is to go study while A is at pre-school.


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## Thursday Girl

Kate, I am not optimistic either.

weaning, Junes says that their is still milk, and I believe her although I wonder if maybe it's turning to colostrum. I do experience fullness when I am away from her. I keep meaning to try to express some milk and see and I always forget to. she doesn't really show any signs of stopping and is not open to discussion about it.


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## justKate

I just need to complain for a minute about my landlord. Really, she's a lovely person. And we're getting a good deal on the house. But we only moved in 4 months ago, and she's already told us that they're going to sell the house in June when our lease is up. Seriously? I haven't even unpacked entirely and you're telling me I'm going to have to move again? I don't know if I can. Really. I am so sick of moving. I suggested that we'd be willing to sign a 2 or 3 year lease, hoping that the guaranteed money would be enough to keep them from selling... ugh. I don't want to deal with all of this. Of course DH is trying not to stress, telling me how much easier it will be now that we know the area. Deep breaths....


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## Thursday Girl

that's sucky, but i guess if she doesn't agree to the longer lease at least you know not to unpack the other boxes. (bright side?)


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## Everrgreen

Can I brag for a minute?? I got 89% on my first midterm!!!!!! Class average was 67% and there are only 9 who got the same as me or higher  I rock 

My midterm today went well and I have one other from 2 weeks ago that the marks aren't posted for.

Kate - that really does suck. I would be so upset if my landlord said that to me. We've moved A LOT since R was born and I really really LOVE my new apartment and this neighbourhood. I hope she agrees to rent to you for longer.


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## AKislandgirl

NAK

Kate- sorry! Moving is so hard! I hope you can work something out.

Nursing: my milk dried up at some point during the pregnancy but F didn't care. She went a little crazy w/ the nursing when my colostrum came in. Surprisingly she has not increased her nursing since the baby has come. She's even skipped some of the usual times on some days. When my milk came in she said, "the nu-nu is different now." I'm kind of hoping that as we approach 3 she'll wean. I'm not going to discuss it though until we are more settled with the babe.


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## starling&diesel

Kate ... that is frustrating! How can you truly settle in if you have another move looming? What a drag. I hope she realizes the benefits of long term renters.

Sue ... I'm hoping E will wean as we head towards her third birthday too! Loved the pictures and birth story ... if only mine had played out in a similar fashion.

Ever ... Congrats, brainiac! You rock! I'm of two minds about weaning. I'm ready for E to not need to nurse at bedtime and naptime, but I'll miss that connection when she stops.

AFM: Still lots of pain, but getting better every day. H is gaining well, and needing less supplementing that E did. Still using the Lact-Aid, and giving him about 10oz over a 24 hour period, which is way less than E need. That's cool! So lots more milk on the left side, still lots less on the right. H is super mellow, like E was, which is delightful. He sleeps well, and when he's awake he's most interested in where she is and what she's doing.

Interestingly, he was born with brown eyes, which makes me wonder if the donor has some people of colour in his family tree because mostly 'caucasian' newborns do not have brown eyes. Interesting! I asked the egg donor and she said no, so I guess this is the sperm donor showing his traits! Otherwise, he is the spitting image of E, so much so that I have a hard time not calling him by her name. Love, love, love him!

The biggest challenge right now is naptime and bedtime when dp is at work. Quite a juggle! Especially because E still nurses for both.


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: That would piss me off too! I hope you can change her mind - remind her how crappy a time it is to sell. But DH is right - you will at least know the area and have an easier time looking. Still sucks!

Everr: Great job!!! You did awesome - and have a little one to care for on top of studying. Yay!!! 

Starling: Interesting about the eyes. I'm glad you have more milk this go round! Sorry you are still in pain. How frustrating.

Sue: I loved your birth story! I can't believe your birth was still 20 hours for #2. Huge improvement but I couldn't imagine. Mine was less than 8 w/M.

Courtney: I had been wondering what your plans were for baby in bed with toddler. M is still in our bed. I'd like more space but I know this precious time will be gone so soon and I want to savor it.

AFM: Ugh. My fertility doc called randomly today and asked me to talk to the genetics counselor about my sister. My sister has a balanced translocation of chromosomes 16 and 18. It means nothing to her in every day life, but every time she got pregnant the baby would end up with trisomy and she'd have a miscarriage. They finally figured it out when a surrogate carried a baby with her egg and the baby was born with trisomy 18 and only lived a day. I guess it didn't miscarry bc the egg was in a different body. I had been under the impression that since I had Makenna that I didn't have it. Come to find out you can have that and still have a healthy baby 1/16 of the time! So I need to get a blood test done to see if I have the same thing. I seriously doubt I do. I suppose I could have gotten lucky w/Makenna but my sister did IVF like 10 times and had tons of miscarriages and never had a healthy baby. It would be a huge miracle if I have it and got prego w/a healthy baby on the first try. Could happen though. We don't know if it is something that only my sister has or if it is inherited. If it just happened when she was conceived I have no likelihood of having it. But if it is inherited I have a 50% chance! The evidence seems to say that my parents do NOT have it though bc they conceived 5 times, all on the first try! The odds of that happening if they had this are next to nothing. But we shall see. Thank god I am at peace with the idea of donor egg, in case I do have this.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Cindy ... That is huge news. And what a lot of tragedy for your sister! I'll be praying that you are free and clear and have perfect eggs!


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## Vegan Princess

Thanks Starling!

We just had a decent earthquake! Biggest I've felt since living in the Bay Area. I'd felt bigger growing up in San Diego. I guess there was one earlier today but I was in SF and didn't feel it. It was actually centered right in the town where I live (the fault is up in the hills though). This one was the same stregnth. Really jolted the entire house while I was putting M to bed. She got very upset. I was shaking for a while after. She had to fall asleep super cuddled into me. Poor thing. I sure hope there aren't any more to come! And if there are, that they don't get any bigger! I think it was a 4.0. Not that big in the scheme of things - nothing fell or anything. Just scary.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy-wow, that's pretty crazy about the earthquake. I experienced one was but slept through it, so don't know what it feels like. It must be so weird to just experience them occasionally. I'm praying you don't have this thing your sister does, i think that you probably don't b/c of M. and an 8 hour labor!! wow, I can't even imagine! my shortest was around 23 hours.

Everr- congrats, that's awesome!

starling- yay for more milk this time, that's really awesome.


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## justKate

Starling, hooray for more milk! And that is so neat about his eyes.

Cindy, how awful for your sister. But it does make sense that the genetics doc would want to look in to it. Hopefully your situation is different, but it would be oddly coincidental for you both to have similar but different fertility issues. I really hope this resolves for you next go-round.







And freaky about the earthquake--we had a little one here in August and I can't imagine getting used to that feeling. Fortunately it was nap time and Aubs slept through it.

Way to go Ever! We knew you would do great.


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## AKislandgirl

Everr: You do rock! Way to go!

Cindy: Pretty major update. I hope the consult goes ok and it is not something that you have as well. And crazy about the earthquake. I've felt a few big ones over the years and it is always a bit freaky. We had a pretty decent one several years back in the Seattle area. My parents dog started barking like crazy just before we felt it. A little spooky that she knew before us.

Starling: So glad you have more milk this time! How is E doing with the transition. I feel like out first week was golden and now it has really hit her that this is for real and permanent... and the meltdowns have begun! It is really hard to have both girls needing me at the same time. I feel like my heart is breaking in half. And bedtimes... I find it pretty challenging with DH here. Next week he goes back to work so we'll see how we do. I'll be badgering you for some tips and tricks to the juggling act!


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - It sounds like it probably isn't the same thing causing your problems, but better to know for sure. How awful for your sister to go through all of that. I hope everything goes well with your consult.

Starling - That's awesome that you are making more milk - yay! It sounds like everything is going very well! I hope your pain goes away soon though. What all do you know about your sperm donor? I guess it could just be a some little gene that even he (or the egg donor) doesn't know about. I'm curious about the eye colour thing, is it possible for a 100% caucasian newborn to have brown eyes just by chance? (I tried googling but couldn't find any real answer)

I had a 'boy' issue come up last night that was kind of funny: R was doing his 'stretching' (leg stretchy thing that, um.. feels good 'down there'), all of a sudden he started whimpering a bit and saying "mommy! it got big!" He came over to me so genuinely worried that a certain part of his anatomy had 'got big'. I had such a hard time not laughing. And I really had no idea what to say. It is not the first time that's happened (I'm pretty sure it has ALWAYS 'got big') but for some reason this was the first time he really noticed it and/or worried about it. I told him that was ok and that's just what happens and it's normal. Oh dear.. I worry about my ability to handle these 'male' situations on my own as he gets older :/

AK - I hope Fiona gets through the transition quickly  I'm sure it must be hard but all you can do is your best and at the end of the day they know they are loved and safe and that's all that matters.


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## AKislandgirl

OMG Ever! That is so funny! I would have such a hard time not laughing too!


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## starling&diesel

*Ever* ... My goodness, is that what's coming up for me? I would have a very hard time not laughing.

*Sue* ... No advice here. We're winging it! We're getting outside twice everyday, even if it's very painful for me. Even if we only go outside and collect leaves. I walk slowly, and am taking it as easy as I can, but we have got to get out of the house in order for all of us to be sane and content. Naps and bedtimes are very challenging, and I find myself getting frustrated when I'd like not to be. It is so hard for me to remember that E is still a baby, when she's so verbal and reasonable for the most part. I try really hard not to be in a rush, because if I am, I get grumpy a lot faster.

How is E with the transition: I think she's doing great. I haven't brought out any of the goodies I'd set aside beforehand (I'm sure that I'll need them when the winter house bound days set in). We haven't turned on the tv yet (although I feel like that's getting close due to my mounting exhaustion), and she's still very excited about the baby. She is quite contrary as of late ... wanting to do and think and say the opposite of what I'm saying. Even when she knows better. That's frustrating. Not sure if I should try to 'lecture' her about these things, or just ignore it and hope that it's a baby-related thing.

One thing is that I'm being VERY CAREFUL not to blame the baby ... never ever. I never say that I can't do something because I'm nursing/changing/shushing/snuggling the baby. I blame myself or just about anything, but not the baby. I blame my 'owie' a lot. "I need to lie here and rest because my owie hurts" [whilst also nursing the baby.] And I try to always say yes. "Sure we can cuddle, in two minutes." "Sure we can go to the park, right after nap." "You betcha, sure you can walk the dog ... when you're six."









*Courtney* and *Nillarilla* and *Erin* ... feel free to chime in with advice! (Erin can chime in when she's back from her stellar fabulous adventure).


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## Nillarilla

Wow I just spent an hour catching up.

Ever- Sorry that you are feeling lonely and damaged. You will find someone, someone quirky and funny and willing to take you for what you are and what you've been through. Congratulations on your midterm. I had my first one on the 6th and got 89% too!

Cindy - So sorry that you are going through this struggle and my fingers are crossed it's not the genetic thing. I had a feeling that the baby would stick with Starling and it did. With you I've had the feeling that it will but not yet. I hope it's soon and with no more heartache for you.

Courtney - Your life always sounds so busy and full. I can't imagine what it would be like to be on #4. Remind me do you know what this one is?

Mal - I hope you are getting some much needed rest and cherishing this last time with Owyn. I can't wait to see pics of your new daughter.

Sue - Your girls are precious. Congratulations on the birth of Maeve! The tantrums started with Em at about the 2.5 month mark. Including dropping his pants and peeing on the floor because he "didn't feel like going to the bathroom".

Kate - I really hope that you don't have to move again. That would suck. I love your blunt way of writing. It's so honest and fabulous.

Starling - I had 2 sections both after trying for a home birth. It hurts! Both emotionally and physically. I know that there was a reason the universe said that was the way it had to go for me but I riled against that and I grieved after for a long time. My tip for the pain would be get some traumeel if you haven't already. That stuff really worked for me. So happy that you have more milk coming in this time. Wishing I was still lactating so I could send u a bunch of milk.

Oh and for all those that have just had or are going to have #2 my biggest piece of advice is to lose the guilt. It's not worth anything. Really your older ones are loved and safe and honestly are learning very important lessons about patience and the world not orbiting around their little bodies. I remember when Dee was tiny and I was sore I would make it a point to go somewhere fun where I could just sit. Like the library or the Y tot time. Oh and preschool that was great because I had 3 mornings a week where Em was completely entertained and Dee and I could just lie in bed and nurse and sleep. Remember to give your partners the baby instead of just the older one. Then you get the one on one time with the older one. Sounds simple but it's not since the LO is attached most of the time. I would also save the tv for when I needed to put the baby down. That was the time when it went on so that I knew he was occupied and I could focus all of my attention on getting the baby to sleep. I would switch it off when I had gotten her down.


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## Nillarilla

AFM I'm currently single parenting both my dh and my mother are out of town. Today was hard. Kids woke early and cranky. It was a Pro D day so no school for Em and he was growly. My house has been a disaster and it still was so I chose to leave. I'm trying to write this big paper for my informatics class so I thought we'd go to the museum. Turns out so did every other family. It got wild in there and we had to leave. So I thought we'd go to the Y. I got a little bit done there but then we had to go to hockey where the ice turned out to be double booked and we only found this out after dressing him up in all his hockey gear. So he was very disappointed again. He was disappointed yesterday because we couldn't go to his school movie night because I was not keeping Dee up that late. There was no way. I'm having a really tough time trying to get anything accomplished with all the interruptions even just the little ones like can I have a drink or a snack or the lights off in the bathroom and something might eat me while I'm trying to pee mommy! Ever I don't know how you do this I'm not even working and I'm going crazy trying to juggle everything. I can't get any studying or writing done in the evenings because I'm exhausted and I just read the same page over and over again or write down nonsense that I have to later go back and delete. I should be in bed now but I was lonely and thought I'd check in with you ladies. My dh's conference is done today but he decided to go see his brother in Montreal and extend his trip by 3 days grrr! I know I have no right to be resentful since I plan on leaving him for 5 days in January but I need him right now! He's gone again in November in my busiest time. I know that it's for work but right now I want to punch him. Is that even rational? Am I going off the deep end? Sigh..... going to bed now, maybe tomorrow will be better.

Ever before I forget I don't know if you have many papers to write but there is a fabulous program called scrivener that you must check out if you do.


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## Everrgreen

Nilla - *hugs* sounds like a busy stressful week! I'm not working either and R is in daycare fulltime, so I get everything done during the day when I'm not in class (I can sometimes do a bit of studying with R around but not really). This semester I have it easy - I only have 5 classes which are scheduled 3 days of the week, so I study on the bus there/back (2 hour commute) and on my 2 days off. And all my classes are marked on midterms/finals only so all I need to do is read/study - no papers! I will have 6-7 courses next semester (I may take one of them in the summer instead) so it will be a bit busier! I will definitely check out scrivener in case I need it for next semester - thanks!

And congrats on the 89% - it's an awesome mark, especially for a mom! I don't know how I ever had reason to complain when I was in university the first time, it seems like it should have been so easy now lol!

R and I are off to visit friends this weekend!! Should be fun! And Starling, my single friend and I are going to do the love spell you shared!


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## Thursday Girl

The hardest thing is when they both need you..or all need you. you just take them all in our arms if you can or help the one who's needs are most imminent. It's like triage, and sometimes it feels like that. when they are all crying at once and there is just one of you. I have said it before and I will second it again, what Nilla said, take the older kid sometime, not just the baby. you can end up with a huge case of unattachment to the oldest if you always let dp take them. I had to actively reconnect to my oldest when my second got older. Bedtime- I had to change the routine a bit. how many nights did i stand trying to read a book to the older girls wile the baby cried. Read the book while the baby nurses even if it is a bit before bedtime. skip the bath if you have to, move it to the morning or afternoon when the baby is more calm. absolutely, every night tuck in and kiss oldest even if baby cries for a little bit by her/himself. Try to block it out and focus your attention soley on biggest. this is sacred time. you can comfort baby in a second, he/she WILL be okay. If DP is home trade off baby, take turns with bedtime. My husband often worked late though so it was just me. If you sense oldest having a problem see if you can get some one on one time with them. it is hard when they are really little, but even a quick walk down the street while DP has babe is good. Balancing it is hard, but you can do it...most of the time, and for those moments when you can't, know that the kids KNOW how much you love them! Know that the times you didn't handle the situation are far outnumbered by the times you did.

Nilla- HI! Yep, bus, always busy, that's why my house is always a mess. : ) We don't know what we are having yet, I think we should find out in about a month. I can't believe how fast this pregnancy is going.

Everr- god luck with the love spell! and HILARIOUS about the boy problem.

AFM- the girls are squeezing keylimes, so we can make a key lime pie for the school picnic today, then we leave straight from there for the haunted woods walk. Juniper is going with her best friend to a kid halloween party though and I am GLAD!! it will be way more fun without her, although I feel like an ass for saying so.But at least she will be thinking the same thing, or she would if she knew what she was not doing.


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## alaskaberry

Long time since I've posted on this thread...Hi again from interior alaska, everyone!!

Tucker is still nursing like crazy. DS1 nursed til he was 4, so obviously I'm not in any great rush to wean. I do want to night-wean, but I go to bed so late at night that it's just easier for me to nurse him when he wakes up and then go back downstairs to keep writing than it is to night-wean. However, when DH is home from the Slope, he's the one that complains about the nursing. I don't know why, he should know by now that someone who nursed til *she* was 5 and goes to LLL meetings is going to let her kids nurse til they want to stop. Lately he's been making noises about me having "boobs down to the waist" when I turn 40 or whatever but I told him he could just pay for my boob job. That shut him up!  :lol

Lately (ok, for the past six months or so), Tucker has been going through a "pirate" phase. He wears a pirate hat everywhere (actually it's more of a tri-corn, but whatever) and always wants to wear "pirate" shirts (stripey ones, and ones with skulls). I think we're going to need to sew it onto his winter hat, or just velcro it on! We've already had our first snow up here in Fairbanks and my kids refuse to wear coats and hats until it gets colder than 20F. (Ok, I'm just as bad...it's 13 out today and I wear a t-shirt to go get wood...no wonder they don't think it's "cold"!)

AKislandgirl--Maeve is beautiful! I love the name Maeve...that would have been Tucker's name, had he been a girl.

JustKate, congrats on your pregnancy. 

Starling, great pics...I love those lil Padraigs.

VP, we have the occasional earthquake here, mostly small tremors. I always think I've gotten used to them, but i never do. I'm glad no one was hurt!

Evergreen, there's a great book called "raising sexually healthy children", I don't remember the author, but it has lots of helpful advice for moms of boys.


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## AKislandgirl

My tiny baby got my big baby's cold- BOO!

DH is back to work today. he's doing half days for the next 2 weeks. In a way its a bit of a relief. I think hormones, lack of sleep, and the changes we are going through has taken its toll on us. It has not been the blissful support each other through this change post partum period that I thought we'd have. We've been fighting a lot- mostly about how he has been dealing with Fiona. He is so hard on her and in my opinion has an expectation for her behavior that is not developmentally appropriate. I've had more then a few cries over this in the past week. he just really pisses me off sometimes! I feel like I shouldn't be mad at him because he is so good about keeping up with the house- cooking, cleaning, etc... But emotionally he is just being a total jack ass. I get that this is a change for him too but be the adult for crying out loud! I have such a hard time because he gets upset with Fiona over some normal 2 year old thing and then she gets to crying and needing me because of it. She already needs me and is move clingy right now (so totally normal!!) that I don't need him adding to it. I've tried talking to him about it but sometimes it feels like I'm talking to a brick wall.

Ugh, I just needed to vent to people that would understand.


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## Mal85

to you Sue. Those are all worries I have about my DH when this baby comes. Generally, he is great with Owyn, but he is a lot harder on her than I am. I think this transition is going to be difficult for the two of them to go through together. I expect some regression and behavior issues from her and although I've warned him that may happen, his patience may not hold out.

I'm really hoping this baby comes sooner rather than later. We spent our Saturday night in the ER this past weekend. I had some excessive swelling on one side (I'm still super swollen), pain and tenderness in my calf, tightness in the muscle. The on-call doc was concerned about a blood clot, so he had me go in to get an ultrasound. No clots found, but I do have slow blood flow on the right side. Not so out of the ordinary at this point, but something to keep an eye on. The nurse that checked me out though was more concerned about the amount of swelling and pitting I have on both legs. The pitting is really bad, sticks around a long time when I press on my legs. The swelling has come on kind of suddenly too which isn't great. That combined with the fact that I've had some pretty sudden weight gain the last few weeks and my midwife mentioned some protein in my urine last week... Has me a little worried. She didn't seem concerned about the protein. She mentioned it offhand, then went on to say I've had trace amounts the whole time, but then I'm wondering what made her say something last week but never before... was it higher last week? I don't know. I went ahead and stayed cautious today, took off work and I meet with her tomorrow. So, I'll talk to her about all my concerns. My BP has been okay so that's reassuring. It has been slightly elevated for me... I typically border on low blood pressure, so it has been a little higher than normal, but still within the range of normal.

So, there's all of that... Then I was up at 4:30 this morning timing contractions. Pretty sure I'd been having them in my sleep. I kept dreaming about it and woke up in the middle of a pretty intense one. I timed those for about 2 hours before they went away. Had some good BH all morning, but then those petered off too. Nothing really happened most of the rest of today, but I am losing small pieces of mucous now. So, hopefully things are happening! I am going to have my midwife check me tomorrow and possibly sweep my membranes if these contractions have made any progress. I'm 38 weeks now, but with all these new symptoms coming up, I'd like to just get her out before things get worse.

Owyn has been super clingy yesterday and today. I'm sure she can sense my anxiety. I've lost the will to fight her for the most part, so she's been pretty spoiled with all the movies she wants to watch and snacking most of the day. I know I need to be better about that, but I just don't have the will right now...


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## Thursday Girl

Hi alaskaberry!!

Sue, sorry Maeve is sick, that is sucky. My Juniper got sick when she was really tiny too, the downfalls of being a younger sibling. As for your DH being overly hard on her, is he willing to read? If so have him read your two-year old or I guess now it should be your three year old. It just goes through what is normal at the age it's about. It is so much easier to be a better parent when you know what to expect and you know why they do the things they do.

Mal- do your legs hurt? My friend had REALLY swollen legs right before she delivered her son. Our midwife said that happens sometimes.

so Junes nursed for 1 hour and 45 minutes last night!!! I am so not cool with that, I finally had to make her get off and then she threw a hellish tantrum but I JUST. COULD .NOT. NURSE. anymore. she often nurses for 45 minutes before she falls asleep, which is one thing, but almost 2 hours is CRAZY, she's almost 3, I might expect that from a newborn. Gah! I will be bringing this up at my next LLL meeting. I'm fine with nursing but not that much. My poor nipples don't even like her nursing at all right now. Also my baby feels dense, it's weird, I hae never had a pregnancy feel liek this. I will be bringing that up at my next midwife appt. Weird stuff.


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## Nillarilla

Sue so sorry to hear that the baby got the cold hopefully the breastfeeding helps her sail right through it. Can you give your husband something to read on the 2 year old's developmental stage and what to expect like Dr. Sears or some such thing? Maybe if it's not coming from you he would be more open to listening?

Mal, Those do sound like a bit worrisome symptoms, glad to hear you are taking it easy.

Alaskaberry so nice to hear from you. My 5 year old still loves all things pirate related.

AFM:

My husband gets home tonight and I'm so thankful. I figured out what contributed to my crying jag the other day and my sleeplessness lately I got my period today and with it came the mother of all headaches, cramping, nausea, backache and exhaustion. So yeah basically my pms symptoms were kicked up a notch that's for sure. 2.5hrs that's all I've got to make it. I've got to go find some dinner for the kids. I'm still not finished my paper. Ugh! On a side note not sure if I should stick my nose in here or not but my cousin's kids birthday was yesterday and we are pretty close and our kids are close. Every time she hosts something or they have some kind of event like her wedding, parties etc., she gets really nasty to her husband and calls him out in front of everybody. I really feel like this is going to hurt her relationship in the long run. Should I mention this now? Wait until the next time it happens and mention it discretely then? Not mention it at all it's none of my business?


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## Mal85

Courtney-- I wouldn't say they hurt, but they are uncomfortable. I don't want to be on my feet for more than just a few minutes. They just feel really tired and the swelling is making them feel tight, makes it difficult to do anything on my feet. Someone over in my DDC said the same thing... she had these symptoms with her last pregnancy right before she delivered. I've had this feeling the last few days that the birth is just around the corner. I don't know how to explain that, but I feel jittery and like I really need to be preparing. Hard to do when I can't stay on my feet for long. So, instead I've been spending a lot of time snuggling with Owyn. I keep feeling like today could be the last day she's my only and I need to soak it up while I can.


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## Vegan Princess

Aww Mal, I love that you're getting your snuggles in. I always feel a little sad for the kiddos about to have a sibling in that they are losing their alone w/mommy time. Not that they aren't gaining a fantastic dynamic in return (eventually). I hope babe comes soon! And that no complications arise. Hoping the swelling is just a nuisance and not a big concern.

Sue - poor baby! Must be scary to have a sick newborn. Sorry about the discord w/DH. Hopefully some time away each day will be good for both of you.

Courtney: PLease explain how the baby can feel dense? I'm so curious.

Alaskaberry: Hi!! Nice to have an update.

Nilla: I might mention it casually next time you are alone w/her. Eeck.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

it's hard to explain and I guess dense is the best I could come up with. Earlier in the pregnancy it felt like I had a rock in my belly instead of a uterus and a living baby. Now I know it's living , I feel it move but it is just heavy, dense, sometime like a big rock in my belly. It's weird.


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## Everrgreen

Courtney - That is strange.. My first thoughts are maybe it's a 4th pregnancy thing - your muscles aren't holding the weight as snug so it is feeling heavier.

And I don't know how you tolerate 1 hour and 45 minutes! After about 15 minutes with R I'm cutting him off (hmm, maybe that's why I don't have milk anymore!)

Mal - I hope your intuition is right and your new babe comes soon! It sounds like you are making the most of your last few days with Owyn - very special for both of you I'm sure! Sending you lots of healthy happy birthing vibes!!

Nilla - I hope your feeling better soon! My PMS has been non-existent since R was born, but when I was ttc I had really really bad cramps and nausea almost every period.

As for your cousin, that's tough.. Are you close to her? I know someone who is sort of like that only she's not 'nasty' she just is always making little jokes in a light-hearted way but it makes me uncomfortable. She is a friend of a friend so I don't see her that often and really have no place saying anything. If it was one of my friends I would probably say something in private.

AK - Oh no, I hope Maeve is feeling better soon - poor baby! And I second (third) the suggestion of getting your dh some reading material so he can see for himself where you are coming from. Even if it *is* something that is 'developmentally appropriate', I would still think that expectations should be lowered during the transition you are in right now.

alaskaberry - I have the opposite boob problem - mine just keep getting smaller and smaller, they definitely won't be dragging on the floor lol! I was a full C before getting pregnant, now I'm barely a B (I'm also 15lb lighter though, so I'm sure that's to blame!) And I love this age of really starting to get into things - R loves dinosaurs and other scary animals. He is being a dinosaur for Halloween and getting a bunch of Playmobil dinosaur stuff for Christmas. And he LOVES Dinosaur Train. It's very cute! My nephew is 7 and has also been into dinosaurs forever.

AFM: R has a new bff at daycare, she's older and *loves* playing house - one time I went and R was the baby and she was pretending to feed him with a bottle (funny because R has never had a bottle, I wonder if he even knew what it was lol), and yesterday my mom picked him up and said he was playing daddy and the girl was playing mommy. Oh dear!

And I had an AWESOME day yesterday - I got another midterm mark back: 94%!!!! And I had an appointment with the transfer credit office to see if I could get out of a prerequisite that I was told I needed - not only did I get out of the prerequisite, but he went through my transcripts and crossed THREE more courses off my list! AND told me there is a 4th that he thinks he can give me if I bring in a course outline. So my course load for next year got a lot lighter!

Oh, Starling - I did the love spell this weekend!! I hope it works! My friend was skeptical but I think she secretly enjoyed it  And then last night on the bus this really cute guy was talking to me and I made an effort to be friendly. But, it turns out he was just being nice - he gave me his card because he does chinese medicine and I have an awful cough right now and we were talking about that just briefly. But when I looked up his website today his blog mentions his wife and baby. Darn! ;o)


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## Thursday Girl

woohoo for awesome test scores and less courses!

and this is a totally fun age! They are just funny and interesting to watch and talk to.


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## justKate

Ever, hooray for good grades and transfer credit! Very nice of the counselor guy to work with you on the 4th class. As for the love spell, i do hope something comes of it. Even if it just opens your eyes to possibilities, it will have worked! That's neat about R role playing. I don't think Aubs is there yet, except with her babies. Not with other kids.

Courtney, I kinda get what you're saying. This baby is way different for me, too, so maybe it does mean a different gender, or something about our bodies?

Mal, hope you're resting. I'm going to start stalking you now, if you don't post we'll all think something's happening! And good about getting snuggles in. A bit of TV and quiet time won't hurt either of you.







Have the contrax picked up or slowed at all today?

Nilla, good to hear from you. And glad you're feeling somewhat better. That is tough about your cousin. I don't know what I'd do. Is there someone that she responds well to that you could encourage to talk to her? Ugh. I've got a 33 year old cousin that continually makes inappropriate, sexually-related comments around family (like our grandparents and children). It is uncomfortable.

Ugh, Sue, poor Maeve. Hopefully she gets through it quickly. As for DH, I have no suggestions. Maybe getting him out of the house will help. It would be great if he would read something like the others suggested, but I know my DH wouldn't do it. I fully expect to be in your situation in a few months. But we definitely understand, so vent away.









Hey alaskaberry, good to hear from you too! Seems like by now your DH would just ignore the BFing! It doesn't get that cold here, but I am trying to "set an example" with the whole "dressing appropriately for the weather" thing. I'm not very good at it. I'm also having trouble getting in to the habit of taking a jacket for DD when we go places, since this is the first time in her life we've lived somewhere that gets even remotely cold.

I need to go back further for more personals!

Drama here, so I've been reading but not feeling like posting much lately. Our landlords here in VA have decided that they won't renew our lease (they're going to move back in here and rent their other house instead), so we'll be moving around June 1st. Then our property management company for the house we own and rent out in TX is trying to charge us extra money because they have cash flow problems. We're planning to fire them when our contract is up, but I'm afraid they'll sabotage our relationship with our tenants and we'll end up having to find new tenants for our house there, also in June. And my unemployment benefits run out in April, around when baby is due. And I've decided not to take the bar exam, because it will end up costing like $4k, which means I would basically end up working for a year to pay nothing but daycare for two, student loans, and bar exam expenses. Bleh.

DH keeps telling me not to stress about it all, and I know we'll work it all out, but geez. When it rains it pours. And I'm all emotional these days with pg hormones, of course.

Last night we had a poop incident. Aubs really had to go and didn't want to, and still hadn't gone before she went to bed. About 9:00 she is crying hysterically, so I go up to her and find that she's pooped her panties in our bed. Thankfully it was contained, but she was super upset about pooping in her sleep. She kept saying "my so sorry." Poor baby. I sat her on the potty while I cleaned her up, and she said "my need cuddles."







Its really rewarding to be able to hear her express herself in words (finally). Almost like validation that I was understanding all along.

ETA: I'm also going to be 30 in a week or so. Not sure that it really is bothering me, but it's there.

Here's Aubs in her Cinderella costume. They had a little thing for the kids at DH's work, and she was very serious about the whole costume wearing thing. I sort of regret not making it warmer though--by the end of the night she was chilled. I'll know for next year I guess!


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## Thursday Girl

that is so sad about the poop. Junes got really upset like that when she peed our bed. It's tough seeing your kid upset, but all we can do is reassure them and love them.

i love the costume, it is so much better then most cinderella costumes. You made it??

sucky about everything going on, it really does pour doesn't it? Better I suppose then things just always being kind of crappy.



Junes in her Foofa costume

and all my girls in their costumes (Jewel put her own costume together this year)


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## Vegan Princess

Love the costumes! I have a quickie pic of M in her pumpkin costume but it was just when the mail arrived with the package. I'll take better ones this weekend and post one.

Kate: Sounds like you just have a lot on your mind at once. You can more it work not going back to work - and it will be a blessing to be home with your girls that much longer while they are little. The house stuff will all work out. It sounds huge now but you do have a lot of time to start looking and get things figured out on your own schedule. And can you contact the tenants yourself and explain that there have been issues with the management company but that you still want to offer then a renewed lease? Perhaps they don't want to move either! I doubt they have any allegiance to the management co. And don't worry, 30 isn't bad. LOL. I turned 30 before I gave birth to M. Even 33 still isn't bad.

I've been having fun reading blogs about play-based crafts and preschool ideas. I've taken a lot and done them at home. I made a light box yesterday and we have a ton of water beads arriving soon. We have a meeting on 11/5 with the parents of the preschool to discuss changing the curriculum to play based stations. Should be interesting to see how it turns out bc we sent out a satisfaction poll and most parents are happy enough with how it is now. Though I'm hoping that it's just bc they haven't given much thought to what else it could become. This saturday is the information day for my top choice of preschools to send Makenna to next yr. I have 3 friends who send their kids and adore it. Play-based, co-op, right near my house and also has flexible drop in hours to extend the day if need be (it's only 3 hours/day but you can leave them an extra 2 hours if you pack a lunch - no advance notice needed and only $8/hr). Anyway, Makenna is loving the light box! Now we're off hunting for fun things to put on it. Yesterday we melted down plastic cups to make colored discs for it.

Fertility update. I have 4-5 eggs this month!!! I went in on Monday and he asked me to come back today to see if they are all still growing. IUI scheduled for Friday. I asked him to convert to IVF since he thinks this is likely the most amount of eggs we'd get for IVF anyway. I doubt he will let me. Plus we'd have to cough up an extra 11k! But it would save me 3-5k on injectible meds. So we'll see. This is our last IUI and I don't have a lot of confidence that it will work, despite having lots of eggs, because DH's count is so low. I think we probably do just need IVF. Anyway, I'll know more tonight.

Cindy


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## justKate

They had a $0.99 pattern sale at Joann, so I had a pattern for the cinderella dress. Just added a neckband, headband and the "gloves." It was a PITA with the silky stuff, so I probably won't do that again. And the gloves ended up being too tight, so I cut them off.

Cindy, I hope since the doc agrees that IVF is more likely to work, he just lets you go to that. What's the point in them making you spend more money? Unless it's just their "policy"....anxious to hear what he says.

Speaking of educational stuff, that reminds me, I think I need to get one of those big five-minute sand timers for Aubs. I try to give her notice when we're transitioning activities (especially eating dinner and finishing bath time) but she has a lot of trouble with it. I was thinking maybe if I could give her the "okay, almost done" then "five more minutes" and "one more minute" with a visual (the timer) it might be easier. Hmm. Maybe something like this: http://www.discountschoolsupply.com/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?product=28465&es=237530000ESC&utm_source=CSE&utm_medium=weblink&utm_campaign=froogle&cvsfa=408&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=3238343635


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks Mamas. I'm not sure if he'll read it but I'll give it a try. last night was a bit of a low point for us. Later he told me he realizes he's not handling this well. We really need to get on the same page as far as expectations and our approach to discipline. I know stress is part of this but also that fact that gentle discipline was not what he grew up with. He grew up with spankings and "because I said so" type of parents and its not what we want for our kids. Sigh... lots to work through.

Kate: You have so much going on! Yikes! Such a bummer about her feeling so bad about pooping. I hate it when they are upset like that. I hope you can work out a good solution for housing.

Cindy: Keep us posted. maybe they will let you just go right to IVF! Good luck Mama!

Mal: I sure hope baby comes soon for you! Sending you lots of labor vibes. It sounds like you really need to be resting up right now. Glad you took some time to do that!

Everr: You are rocking school! Woot Woot! Glad you can skip some of those classes too. Must be a relief!

Nilla: So glad to hear from you. Sorry you aren't feeling well. Glad you DH is on his way home.

Love the costumes Kate and Courtney. You two are such crafty Mamas! I'm so impressed. Fiona will be a dinosaur using a costume I got at a garage sale this summer. It's a one piece fleece snowsuit type thing which she already wears on a regular basis! Best $3 I spent in a long time!

I just made her a batch of baking soda play clay from a recipe I found on line. She's loving it! She makes little blobs of things and names them and does this whole role playing thing with them. Eeya is a reoccurring friend that shows up around here quite a bit. Anyone else have imaginary friends? She seems to have a lot but there names change all the time! A lot of times they are animals too- alligators are the animal of the day right now! currently one is stuck in the mud and Eeya is helping to save it. (Diego anyone?!)

There is no chocolate in this house... its a big problem.


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## Vegan Princess

Oh please - take some of my chocolate! I've already starting dipping into the halloween candy - and once you start, you can't stop!!!

So I went back to the doc. I have 3 good follicles for IUI. The 4th would likely be mature enough for IVF (I guess it's different when they fertilize it versus letting it happen on it's own). The 5th stopped growing. He actually was going to let me convert to IVF until he remembered I haven't done the requisite labs to go forward with IVF and the FDA is strict about it. That's fine. I would want to push forward with 5 eggs but not with 3 and possibly 4. And I feel more comfortable doing IUI with 3 good ones versus 5! I don't want to get knocked up with quints!! He still did give me the selective reduction talk about how I can't have triplets and would need to reduce to twins. Not sure I would actually agree to do that if I end up pregnant with triplets but I said I'm ok with it - or he likely wouldn't let me do the IUI. The odds of actually conceiving triplets is really low, despite having 3 eggs. DH is going to be allowed to make 2 deposits on Friday morning to try and contribute more swimmers. The 2nd might not add much but it's worth a try. I'm annoyed bc we asked previously if he could do this and were told no - but it wasn't my actual doctor that said no. I'm so glad I got to see my true doctor twice this week. I feel like we figured a lot out as far as our plan if this doesn't work. So if this IUI doesn't work, we'll do IVF in december or January. Probably January bc their lab is closed for 3 weeks and the timing probably wouldn't work out for earlier. Also I'll probably do a combo of the oral med I've been taking and injectibles - so probably less injectibles than a lot of people end up doing - which makes me feel a bit better about the prospect of it!

Now...off to give myself a shot in the tummy to make myself ovulate...

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Fingers crossed Cindy! I hope this is it!! It sounds like you have a good plan in place now too and a clear understanding of what you can and can't do with this Dr. Glad you got in to see him this week. I'll be thinking of you! 

We've had a great day today. We went to library story time as a family before DH had to go into work for the afternoon. Fiona played with a little girl last week who's family had just moved to town. She was there again today and they played after the story/project time. It's the first friend that she has made on her own! They were pretty cute together. The girl is 3 but I'm not sure when her birthday is to know how much older she is. They had a great time though and we are going to get together tomorrow so the girls can play.  Makes my heart happy!


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## Everrgreen

AK - Yay for a nice day out! And for friends  I love hearing R talk about his little friends at daycare. Very cute!

Cindy - I am so so hopeful for you. Sending you lots of fertility vibes for your IUI!

Kate - Oh I like the timer idea! I think that would be very useful for us! I'm sorry about all your troubles. I know it's annoying to hear - but things will work out, they always do *hugs* I think it's awesome that you are going to be able to stay home with your babes for a while. So, do you have any exciting plans for your big birthday?? I turn 30 the spring I graduate (2013) and I really want to go on a trip to celebrate 

And I am so impressed with Kate and Courtney's costume-making - you are both much more talented than me! I went out and bought one  I'll take a pic this weekend and post it!


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## Everrgreen

Me again.. I just need to share how awesome my son is. So, for a long time now we've had this thing, I've always called him 'my baby' and when he started talking he started calling me 'my baby'. After that I would say 'You're MY baby' but then he just repeated that back too. Later at some point I added 'and I love you' and then 'and you're awesome'. So I will say 'You're my baby and I love you and you're awesome' and he says it back 'You're my baby and I love you and you're awesome'. Maybe it's weird. Anyway, Royce now will come up to me and give me a hug and kiss and say "I love you and we're both awesome". Seriously, how did I get so lucky? I love this boy <3 He also still calls me 'my baby'.. At random times even if we're out in public he will yell out 'Mama you're my baby!' lol *happy sigh* He's my baby and I love him and he's awesome


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## AKislandgirl

Love that Everr!

I think I have thrush... burning boobs! Ugh! DH is picking up some Gentian Violet for us... so we'll all be purple here soon. I hope Fiona doesn't freak out about it. I'm going to play up the purple bit! Ee gads. I hope I'm not wrong and its the beginning of mastitis instead. I described how I was feeling to my Dr and she thinks thrush too but told me to call her if it changes at all over the weekend and seems more like mastitis. I'd rather not have either!!


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## justKate

Ever, agreed, love it! Love these little moments, too--we have to store them up!

Sue, do you use vinegar? I swear, it works for me. Basically just regular white vinegar, in two cups. After nursing, whenever you can, dunk both boobs in the cups of vinegar for a minute, wipe all around your boobs, under, armpits, etc. with the vinegar, and then get as much air on them as possible so they're super dry when you put clothes back on. I also put vinegar in the laundry, especially with shirts/bras. I put it in a downy ball. The genetian violet worked for me too, but the vinegar was cheaper and less bothersome. And no trouble to do as a preventative. Hope it gets better soon!


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## Thursday Girl

Sue, urrggh sorry about thrush. Hope it goes away quickly.

Everr, that is super cute!

Cindy, crossing my fingers for those eggs!


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## Everrgreen

AK - Oh no - that sucks :/ Hope it clears up quickly!

Cindy - Hope everything went well on Friday!

Courtney - I voted for your picture!

R and I had a fun morning at the zoo! Now I need to try and get him to take a nap or watch a movie so I can get some studying done for my next midterm (tomorrow!)


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: We just got a zoo pass. I'm so excited. The zoo close to us is tiny and easy to see everything in a couple hours. We just went last week and now M is super into brushing the goats. She is getting so much more interested in it. Good luck on your midterm tomorrow! Hope you were able to study.

Sue: How are your boobs? I 2nd the vinegar idea. My midwife reccomended that when I thought I had thrush. I so hope it isn't mastitis. I had that twice in the first couple weeks and it was horrid!!

AFM: IUI went well. DH's count was way higher than last 2 times (still low but within the range they like to see for IUI to have a decent chance). So we'll see. I doubt I'll test early this time since the trigger loves to hang out for so long. Maybe just a day or 2 early. Hmm - only 10 or 11 days left to wait. I'm so not good with waiting.

We carved pumpkins today. Makenna was so excited but she gagged at the pumpkin goop - she did the same thing last year. LOL. She mostly played with her sand box while we carved. I think tomorrow we'll go trick or treating at some businesses in the afternoon (a popular outing on a shopping street here) as something to do before daddy gets home. Then we'll do a bit around the neighborhood - probaly a good way to meet some more of our neighbors. Then just enjoy handing out candy. I have no idea if we'll get many trick or treaters here since this is our 1st halloween in this house.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

I loved having a zoo pass when my older girls were younger and I wish we could get one for Juniper. We would usually just got and see a couple of things a trip instead of the whole zoo.

we need to carve pumpkins after school today but before our party at 5. we do a halloween party, dinner and trick or treating every year. The house is currently a wreck, but I am rewarding myslef with computer time since I just finished the living room. I only have a couple of hours left though as I have to help with the schools halloween party. squeezing way too much into today. Hopefully hubs really will be home to finish cleaning what I don't.

Junes is being Foofa and Hubs is being DJ Lance Rock, there is a picture of them in the halloween costume thread (go ahead and like it if you want.), I am being a cat to my oldest's witch and Josie is The Wasp, all the costumes look awesome. I really hope we can get a photo of the whole family together.


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## Vegan Princess

Courtney: So cool you and hubs dress up too! M kept asking us and we told her we were going to be pumpkin farmers (since she is going as a pumpkin). But we have dropped the ball on getting together costumes. We'll see what we can manage.

I'm trying to find fun, vegetarian ideas for an easy halloween dinner. I'm thinking maybe pumpkin ravioli might be it.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

I make monster eyes every year, it's our tradition. the koids have to eat it before they are allowed to go trick or treating

recipe- cook a square pack of frozen spinach in veggie broth with salt and pepper. grate chedder cheese into the bottom of a buttered pie plate. crack in a bunch of eggs, leaving the yolks whole. put a teaspoon of milk over each yolk. then arrange spinach around all of the yolks/"eyes". cook at 350 for about an hour or until it's set.


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## AKislandgirl

yep, mastitis. Yuck! I did getian violet for 2 days too though because Dr and i weren't convinced I didn't have thrush too based on my sypmptoms. Last night I just did vinegar though. Thanks for that tip. I'll do that for a couple of days I think as well as add to the laundry. I seem to be over the achy, shivery stage of the mastitis but my boob is still very sore to the touch. Ugh! Had this multiple times with Fiona in the first year. Funny enough I was looking for an article in my old Mothering magazines last night about EC and stumbled across an article about treating mastitis so I'll try some of those tips as well.

Fiona is doing really awesome these past few days. Minimal meltdowns and sleeping really well at night again. She started using the potty again too! Only a few times so far but so much better then the total refusal we've had these last couple of months. I hope it sticks this time around! We've been talking up turning three and how 3 year olds don't use diapers. Crossing fingers this better attitude and sleep sticks around!

Tonight we will go to the downtown business for trick or treating. We'll hit probably about 4-5 of them at the most. I think she'll just be excited to see the kids around town and get a couple of pieces of candy. We are going to have to have her trade in her candy though so that we know for sure she is getting gluten free. I've been telling her that but I hope she doesn't freak out about it at the time. We tend to get lots of trick or treaters at our house in the evening so she'll pass out candy to the kids here after that.

Courtney- love the monster eye idea! What a fun tradition!

I hope everyone has a great time today in whatever way you celebrate!!

How long has it been since we heard from Mal?!


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## justKate

Sue, that sucks about the mastitis. With Aubs I had it around 4 weeks, and passed out at my midwives' office. They decided to check me over, and lo and behold... ugh. And I'm allergic to penicillin, so I always worry about taking antibx. Glad to hear Fiona is adjusting. I remember my brother's birth (my first memory) and it was really stressful for me. I was 2 years 4 months, I think. He was an awful baby.

Courtney, I love your plans! I bought some gnarly looking steaks to play with, and just found that I can cut the yucky out of the middle and use them for fajitas, so I think that's what I'm making. Guess i should get started in case we have early trick or treaters. Its supposed to rain later, so hopefully the little ones get out early. And it is awesome that you guys dress up. I was thinking that I need to but I didn't really get it together. Hopefully next year!

Cindy, that's good news on DH's count. It would be great if this were the month, but I understand not wanting to get your hopes up. The thing with testing only a couple of days early is that you won't know whether its the trigger or a "new" line...so you should really test every day between now and then, if not twice!









I think Mal posted in her DDC a day or two ago. I've been stalking her. She's got to be close!


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## Everrgreen

Mal posted a pic on fb today - and nothing on her wall indicates a new baby has arrived (sorry for stalking you Mal! lol)

Starling - How are you doing??

Kate - That's funny that your first memory is of your brother being an awful baby  I think my first memory is from about age 2-3 as well and sometimes when I'm doing something fun with Royce I wonder if it will be his 'first memory'. I'm weird..

AK - Oh no! I'm sorry you have mastitis. I actually have never had that so I don't really know what it's like, but I hear it's bad! The worst I had was a blocked duct a couple times. The one time I had large rock in there that actually left a bruise (luckily all it took was a hot shower and massage to get rid of the lump) I'm glad Fiona is doing well!

The zoo in town is actually free - which is awesome. They do take donations and some day when I have a job I plan on making a nice donation for all the free visits we've enjoyed  They also have a fantastic playground and splashpad and in the summer have train rides for only $2. It's awesome!

So I raced through my midterm today and RAN across campus and through downtown to get to the bus station and catch the earlier bus so I could get home and see R trick-or-treating! I feel a bit remorseful about racing through my midterm because I don't do that! I went through so fast and didn't even go back through to double check my answers :/ I was the first one to leave the room. But I'm sure I passed and I got to get home in time to enjoy Halloween with my boy


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## Mal85

I'm still around. No baby yet! I just haven't had much else to talk about aside from the lack of a baby, so haven't been posting much. I've been lurking though. Sorry about the mastitis, Sue! I hope it clears up soon.

We did ToT-ing tonight. Mostly just the downtown businesses. We hit the grandparents and a couple aunts/uncles before we called it quits. Owyn was a witch and my dad even painted her face green and she loved it! She was so excited to get her face painted and actually left it alone all night. Although, she wasn't so excited about getting it cleaned off at the end of the night, but oh well.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Thinking of you! How is the swelling doing?

Everr: Glad you made it home in time. I'm sure you did fine. I was always the first one out of my exams. Awesome about the zoo being free!

Sue: Ugh - Mastitis is the WORST! It absolutely ruined my supply on my already not so great left side. Never recovered until I started taking goats rue like 8 months later. My midwife told me homeopathics to take so I never ended up needing the antibiotic.

We had fun trick or treating on a business street. Then in the evening we met up with 2 of Makenna's good little buddies and went a few blocks. They were so adorable. We rushed home to do a bit around our house to try and meet a few neighbors we haven't met yet. But Makenna was so pooped out! She so did not want to go home. And we got exactly 1 trick or treater after coming home. Not sure if many came while we were out but our neighborhood doesn't seem as busy as our last one was.

And this mama is exhausted as well! Off to bed early for me.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

SORRY ABOUT MASTITIS, IT SO SUCKS!

can't wait to see pics of your little trick or treaters!! I LOVE halloween pictures.


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## Everrgreen

Mal posted on fb that she is having a baby today!!!

I will post a t or t photo later


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## Vegan Princess

Yay Mal!!! Sending you fast labor vibes!!!! Can't wait for pics. 

Here is my little pumpkin. I love this pic but her eyes are closed bc the sun was shining on her. A lot of the really cute pics have her friends in them and I don't want to post them on the internet without permission.



Here is one more. You can see how long her hair is getting.



Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy, that is how long Junes hair is too. i LOVE the long hair!


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## Everrgreen

Love the pics 

Cindy - M looks like she's copying the face of the pumpkin next to her lol!

Here's R:

<snip>


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## Everrgreen

The marks are already up for that midterm I raced through (it was multiple choice, but I'm still impressed they got it done so fast!) Anyway - I got 86%!! (class average was 64%) And he said he's going to bell curve it after the final to an average of 74%, so my mark will go up


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: OMG - so funny - you're right, she does look like Daddy's pumpkin!!! I'll have to show DH. Great job on your midterm. I knew you'd rock it, even though you were rushed. 

A local dentist (on the street where we went trick or treating) bought back candy today for $1/lb! Since I bought a huge bag and we basically got no trick or treaters (bc we weren't home, duh), we had WAY too much candy here! Makenna did trade hers for a coloring book but mommy ate more than enough last night. So we lugged it in and I got $5.25 back for it. Not bad. He's sending it to the troops. Makenna got some cheapie little things while we were there and got to color a card for the troops. SO glad to have that crap out of the house! Not that I'm not going to keep eating junk but at least the junk I eat usually isn't filled with high fructose crap. Plus I gave up dairy again. Need to stick to my vegan cookies.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

Everr, awesome news about the grades!

and Cindy that is a pretty nice deal regarding the candy trade in.


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## starling&diesel

Hi everyone!

*Sue* ... Have your boobies healed? Are you feeling better? So sorry to hear that you and dp are going through a rough patch. I hope it all gets better soon!

*Cindy* ... Awesome about the candy trade in. I'm reading your posts and can't wait for your BFP, no matter how it comes to be! And great picture of M!

*Courtney* ... Love the costumes! Your DP looks just like that guy! (Sorry, can't remember the DJ's name ...). You and your family are gorgeous!

*Mal* ... Can't wait to hear the news! So excited for you!

*Ever* ... You go, brainiac! We all know you're a smart cookie. Love your adorable dinosaur! Wasn't it just yesterday that he was born? Right?

*Halloween* ... E was a Fabulous Flying Friendly Monster. She and dp went out with a little friend of hers and everyone had a blast. She came home and traded her candy for a fruit leather and a 'monster toy' (dragon puppet and Schliech dragon). The downside to that is that dp and I are eating her goodies. Groan.

*AFM*: We just had our four week checkup with the midwife. H is almost ten pounds! Whoo hoo! Interestingly, she told me that new research shows that the chemical make-up of breast milk doesn't change no matter what the mother does or doesn't eat. I hope the research is right! H is super gassy and I don't plan on doing an elimination diet. H's gas and tummy rumbles seem sporadic and not necessarily linked to what I eat. E never even needed to be burped!

We only supplement (with hypo-allergenic formula now) 8 oz over a 24 hour period, so he's getting mostly my milk. Even his poops still look like breast milk poop. Anyway, I'm going to go look into the research. She also said that new research shows that amniotic fluid does take on the flavour of whatever mom is eating ... so one myth debunked and one shored up. Interesting!

I'm feeling better ... still bleeding, which is mildly annoying, considering we're almost five weeks post partum.

DP is going out of town for work next week and I'll be alone with the kids for three days! Exciting! I think I'll put the dog in the boarding kennel so as not to have her to deal with too.


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## Thursday Girl

Oh I LOVE the pics of Esme and Hawksley!

I still bleed every time at 5 weeks post partum. That is awesome about your milk supply this time, only 8 oz supplemented. that's awesome!

AFM- I have lots I am trying to do for Holiday helpers, bought some hair bands and now I am second guessing myself, is this what they meant by hairclips?? I got the little girl the same stuff I got my girls. I just want to make sure I get her what she wants. It's for one of the family's I'm in charge of. I really hope we get to help all the families. I looked through m kids old clothes and they are all too worn out to donate to a FIN. I guess when they have been through as many kids as these clothes have, and I guess it is okay because that stuff still needs to go through Juniper too. I just kind of wanted to close out one family and thought maybe some of our old 5t clothes would do the trick. Nothing really going on new with Juniper. I will find out baby's sex on the 12th : ) looking forward to it.


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## Everrgreen

Starling - Oh I love the pics! E looks like such a proud big sis  I'm glad to hear everything is going well. I remember reading when R was born that your body will do whatever it takes to make proper breastmilk, even if it means depriving you of something. So if you don't eat that healthy, your body will take what little nutrients you do eat and put them towards breastmilk - maybe that's what your midwife was talking about? There seems to be way too many babies who react to things their moms are eating for that not to be. Although there are other reasons a baby could be gassy - not just reactions to food. I've heard about the other study about the flavours in the amniotic fluid. Anyway, good luck making it on your own next week ;o)

Courtney - You are awesome for doing all that! I am sure whatever you can put together for them will be perfect 

Oh and I love your idea of doing the surprise cake! I actually was just talking to a lady on the bus on Monday and she told me about a friend of her daughters who had cupcakes with blue or pink filling to reveal the gender. I wanted to come here and tell you and Kate (and Cindy too - soon!!) about it because I thought it was such a fun idea!

Cindy - That's great what the dentist is doing! R didn't have too much to go through, I threw out some of it and have been letting him have free reign.. It's almost gone. Plus he doesn't like most of it so he takes one bite and gives it to me lol! I've been enjoying it 

Mal - I'm sure you are busy snuggling with Greta! Can't wait to see pics and hear how the birth went 

AFM - last 2 midterms are tomorrow. I am sooo ready for a bit of a break! 4 more weeks of class and then my finals. Wow time is flying!


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## Everrgreen

Oh oh! I just saw a pic of Greta tagged on fb  Sooo cute!! CONGRATULATIONS MAL!!


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## justKate

Gosh I'm such a FB amateur. That was hard to find! Beautiful baby, Mal. So happy for you!


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## Mal85

Thanks for the congrats ladies! She didn't quite make it for the 11-1-11 birthday, she came at 12:32 am on the 2nd. Just missed it!! My labor went almost exactly like it did with Owyn, it was almost crazy how similar everything was, aside from the time of day. I woke up to my water beginning to break at around 5 in the morning. This continued all morning. My doula came over around 10 and did some acupressure to try and get contractions going. We took a walk around the neighborhood. Nothing was working. We headed to the hospital around lunch time. Once we got there, contractions started to pick up some, but they were just like last time. I'd have a strong one, followed by a couple of weak ones, followed by a break. This was making basically no progress. They knew how badly I wanted to go naturally and the hospital's policy was to start pitocin after 6 hours. Well, we'd passed that window before I got there, so my midwife said to give me 12 hours. Still not much progress. Only 1 cm by then. She gave me even longer, until 7:30 that night. She came by to check on me that evening and I was barely 2 cm further than when I arrived at the hospital.

So, they started pitocin and at that point I got an epidural. They gave me a pretty weak epidural per my request. It gave me some relief, but I was still able to move myself pretty well and felt the pressure from the contractions pretty well. The pitocin was set pretty low, but wasn't making much progress and kept the same routine. So, they upped the pitocin and I asked for a little more in my epidural. That was actually great! For about an hour and half, I got a good break. I couldn't feel anything and my body got a lot of work done. I actually thought I had stopped contracting because I couldn't feel any pressure, but they were finally settling into a good rhythm and I was able to relax enough to let it happen. I went from 4 cm to 7 cm in no time. Then, I started to feel some pressure again. By the time I was 8 cm, I could feel pretty much everything. My epidural was running out and I was feeling transition pretty well.

Then, just like I did with Owyn, I stalled at 9 cm. I felt very pushy, but part of my cervix was still in the way. I finally told my midwife there was no "not pushing" anymore, my body was going to push whether I tried to or not. I told my husband later, it was really either I was going to push or puke and either way that made my body do the same thing, so I might as well be pushing. She was able to push the rest of the cervix out of the way in a couple of pushes and things really got going. By this time, my epidural had completely run out and I was feeling everything. That was so different than the last time. I could feel pressure to push with Owyn, but I didn't feel her coming out the way I could feel this one. Now I know why they call it the ring of fire, holy smokes!

Greta is over a pound bigger than Owyn as and stubborn about coming out. Her head was bad enough, but then her shoulders got stuck and it took a little while to get the rest of her out. She was 8 lbs. 6 oz and apparently all the baby my body can handle pushing out! Talking with my midwife later, even she said it surprised her the trouble my body had getting her out. Apparently, I'm not built to birth big babies. My mom said she never had one over 7.5 lbs and my sisters babies have all been in the 7 lb range... we're just built to birth smaller babies, I guess. So, Greta was all the baby I could handle and I'm feeling it this time! Much more hobbly than I was last time and, although the bleeding is okay, I'm definitely a lot more sore. Really not looking forward to DH going back to work next Tuesday!

She also looks absolutely nothing like Owyn! Owyn is a clone of DH and Greta seems to look a lot more like me. My mom brought over a couple of my baby pictures today and it's hard to tell a difference between the two of us! How strange to have two daughters look so different from each other! Owyn is totally smitten by her. She asks to hold her all the time and is quick to come to her side anytime she cries. She calls her "My Greta" and has kisses galore for her!

Here's a peek at her:



And the proud big sister:


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## Nillarilla

Congratulations Mal! Pretty little (big) girl you've got there. I love the name Greta!

Starling so does that mean the proteins don't pass into the milk or just that the vitamin levels stay the same? Because seriously whenever I had milk products Dee's tummy would go rock hard and she would scream her little head off. Definitely not coincidental there so I would be really surprised to find out that none of the proteins pass through to the milk. Love the pics of Esme and Hawksley. Gorgeous kids you've got there.

Courtney I'm sure whatever you get for the families will be fabulous.

Ever congrats on the good grades.

My husband leaves again on Monday, I'm in the middle of a paper on nursing and Sartre and have another one I need to start ASAP. Also having panic attacks over leaving my job. I guess just the lack of secure income. I make so much more than DH and the opportunity for overtime is so nice and easy to cover the bills. To give all that up is giving me intense anxiety.

Kids had fun on Halloween. They gave their candy to the sugar fairy who brought them beyblades, operation and play apple pie.


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## Thursday Girl

I was mean this year and just took their candy because they just would not lay off it. I'll have to see if we have any money I bet they would like beyblades and we could just do the halloween goblin trade later.

Mal, love your little Greta! She's a cutie. and Owyn's face, wow, sheer happiness.


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## Vegan Princess

Congrats Mal!!! I love Greta's cheeks! So precious. I hope you have a speedy recover. I forgot that I wanted to buy a donut to sit on bc I was so sore. Not a fun feeling. Owyn is beautiful.

Starling: Only 8 ounces is awesome!!! Makenna always had breast milk poo, despite using formula (though I din't always use formula - was lucky enough to find some mamas to give us a lot of milk, but I wasn't open to donor milk in the beginning). I can't believe Hawksley is a month old already! Are you starting to come out of the new baby fog? I felt like the 1st month w/M was a blur. Good luck on your own! Perhaps someone else could come stay with you to help out?

Nilla: I know how you feel. I made more than DH when I quit to stay home. But it's only temporary - you'll be back to work soon enough after school. Good luck on your papers!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

*Mal:* I love her! Such great cheeks! She a beauty! I hope you have a speedy recovery. Tuesday is so soon for you to be on your own. I hope you have family that is able tocome by and lend you a hand.

*Starling:* Awesome about Hawksley's weight gain and your milk supply! I'm not sure what M weighs but getting close to 9 pounds. I did the weigh myself holding her on the scale trick. We don't have an appt till she's 2 months. I'd be very interested to hear more about the study you mentioned. Maeve gets very gassy and spits up all the time. Not little spit ups, but huge ones. Fiona also never needed to be burped so this is all new. Have you tried gripe water? Does it do anything?

I hope your time with DP away goes super fast. Kenneling the dog seems like a great plan. Love the pictures of the kids. The fabulous flying friendly monster costume is awesome!

*Courtney:* I love that you and DH dress up with your girls! I think that whatever you can put together for your FIN will be great!

*Nilla:* Changes are scary! Especially when it involves family finances. Keeping in mind that it is temporary should help! Good luck with your papers.

*AFM:* Feeling mostly better here. I don't feel sick or have pain anymore but still seem to have a plugged duct. I've tried heat, massage, positioning both girls with their chins towards the area when they nurse... not very fun. I'll go do some more reading on kellymom to see if I can find more tips on that. Cindy, what were the homeopathics that you took?

We had our first snow a couple of days ago. Just a dusting really but it looked beautiful! Fiona asked to go sledding!

Maeve is one month 4 weeks old today! (but you get the idea!) I swear I just had her!


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## Vegan Princess

Just a drive by. Got my genetic test results finally - they are NORMAL!!!! Phew!!!!!!

Cindy

PS: Sue - I'll check on the homeopathics later.


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - That is good news! And I'm sure a relief  Now we just need to see that BFP!!

AK - How is Maeve a month old already?!?! (Sorry.. 4 weeks ;o)) I'm glad you're feeling better but that sucks about the plugged duct.. Both times I had one a hot shower is what helped (but both were less than 24 hours, so not the same situation obviously)

I am soo ready for some snow! (Although I probably won't feel that same way when I'm shovelling the driveway or cleaning the car off at 5:30am before I go catch the bus..)

Nilla - *hugs* It does sound like a lot on your plate right now but you will get through it and it will be so worth it in the end! Is it a Nurse Practitioner program you are doing? You are already a nurse, right? Everything works out in the end (or at least that's what I keep telling myself, so far it's holding true )

Mal - She is a big beautiful girl! And it sounds like the birth went well! I love hearing birthing stories  So exciting!

You ladies are giving me a bit of baby fever :O I want to have a baby in my belly.. And experience birth again.. And have a snuggly little newborn to add to our family.. *sigh* I need at least 5 more years - finish school, get a job, save the extra money for sperm donor IUI.. Some day


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... WHAT A RELIEF!!! I am so thrilled to hear your fantastic news. Hallelujah, indeed! Project Baby continues with a flourish!

*Ever* ... You won't need a sperm donor when the time comes because you will be madly in love with the man who will be papa to your next child and a genuine papa to R too. Believe it, woman!

*Sue* ... Glad to hear that you're feeling a bit better. No tips on mastitis from me. The one time I had it the nursing-with-the-chin-to-it and hot compresses worked for me. Good luck! And I cannot believe that these bubs of ours are a month old. Shocking.

*Mal* ... Did I drool over the pic of your girls yet? Drool! Gorgeous!

*AFM*: I took H to the chiropractor today to get him adjusted after our 24 hour+ labour when he was being shoved violently against my pelvis for hours on end. He loved the attention! And speaking of bodies, my legs were so swollen and tight with water that I think I tore my meniscus (part of my knee) while pregnant. I thought it was just the pressure and strain from the weight and the tightness from so much water, but it looks like there is a tear. Greeeaaaaat. I'm heading to the doc for that next week. I really thought it would go away once the baby was here and the water was gone. Not so. Totally painful. Can't go back to work with that not dealt with, so need to sort that out sooner than later, even though I have 11 months more of leave. This kind of thing can take a lot of time. So not looking forward to dealing with it.


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## justKate

Geez, Starling, you can't win. Hopefully the tear is smaller than it feels and it won't be a huge deal to get it fixed. I'm anxious to hear if the chiro helped with H's gastro discomfort. I wish I had taken Aubs to the chiro or a cranio-sacral (sp) therapist after she was born. I think it might have greatly improved her disposition.

Ever, I'm going to kick you!







I can totally understand not getting married again--I don't know that I would--but you WILL find a great man who deserves you. Or he will find you, I think. But you better stay open to it! And congrats on the grades, you're doing awesome.

Cindy, yay for normal test results!!







This means you don't have the same issue as your sister, right? So you theoretically could use a surrogate, if you wanted to?

Courtney, I threw all of Aubs' candy away, don't feel mean. She was getting too whiny about it, and now that its gone she hasn't even noticed. Next year we will have to do something different. I was thinking about letting her pick 10 pieces and "giving" the rest away.

Nilla, I hear ya on job/money stress. It is hard to make big changes, especially when things are going to get tighter than what you're used to. Today I sat down with my grocery receipt and crossed off everything that I won't be buying once my unemployment runs out. It was like $58.00 worth of "extra" stuff. Well not really extra, but stuff we can live without.

Mal, Owyn looks so excited! I hope it continues, and that you feel better soon. Greta is beautiful (can't remember, one t or two?); sorry that getting her out was rough. Thanks for sharing the birth story, I love reading them.

So Erin should be back soon, huh? Hope all is going well on their expedition. I don't keep up with FB or her site so I haven't seen the updates...hopefully she'll tell us all about it.

As for me, not much going on. 18 weeks today, and annoyed because I did something stupid. Well, misread something--I'm taking the MPRE tomorrow even though I've decided not to take the bar exam here for at least a year. Basically I've already paid for it and studied, so why not? When I initially read my ticket, I thought it said "William & Mary, Williamsburg, VA" but I just looked at it and realized that it says "William & Mary, Petersburg, VA." Which means my drive goes from 30 minutes to an hour and 45 minutes tomorrow morning. Grr. Not a big deal, just irritated with myself for not reading it properly. DH took Aubs to Chuck-E-Cheese this evening so that I could study in peace, and apparently she got lost in the big overhead climby thing. Of course I would have just gone in and got her, but he didn't, so she sat there and cried until a bigger kid drug her to the slide and pushed her down. He said she was fine right away, but sometimes I don't know about the way he does things. Then again, I'm also not sure if those things are made to hold 200 lb adults....

New little baby is wiggling all around, but not as much as Aubs did. Or maybe just not yet. We'll find out the sex on 11/22, and hopefully that will be the last u/s for this one! Everything seems to be going well now, so I'm going to try to stay positive and think about things other than how far away April is. Of course now all of the doubt is setting in, and I'm wondering if I made the right choice with wanting another right now. Whether I'm a strong enough mama for two babies. Why I was so impatient for another when Aubs is still so needy. No offense, but when I see all of the new babies here (H, M, G) it really makes me wonder if I'm ready to do it again. I doubt I would feel that way if I wasn't pg. Ugh. Need to put it all out of my head! I really am thrilled about this little one.


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: Yes, this means I do NOT have the same thing as my sister. So hopefully it means I have no need for a surrogate. My sis used a surrogate bc her genetic issue prevented her from using her own eggs. She could have used donor egg too but didn't. So in theory, I should still be able to conceive my own baby. Just need to actual get pregnant now. Big sigh of relief over here. Bc if I did have the same issue, we'd have to go straight to donor egg. Donor egg still remains a possibility if I can't conceive with my own eggs via this IUI or a cycle of IVF. But at least we have a shot with my own egg still.

Sue: I dug out my homeopathics. I had a bunch in the closet so I picked out the 2 that I am pretty sure are the ones I used for mastitis. Bryonia alba. I have 30x. Also phytolacca decandra. I have 30c and 6c. I remember we bought one and it was the wrong stegnth so we bought another. I have no idea which is correct though. You should google them - i'm sure you'll find something about them and mastitis. Also, for plugged ducts I used a hot compress and them hard massage - I had DH do it while I pumped. You could see the milk start squirting when he got it loose. Crazy and wierd to have your DH "milk" you - but it worked way better than I could do. Also, if you keep getting them, consider taking lecithin. I took it the entire time I nursed or I would keep getting them (bc I had breast surgery I was super prone to them). Lecithin thins your milk. Fine for baby and doesn't change the nutrition of it. I bought it at a nursing store.

Everr: You made me giggle about the donor sperm IUI. Would you really consider adding another on your own? I suppose why not, you've done a great job so far! But I doubt you'll need to go that route!

Cindy


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## Vegan Princess

Oh I almost forgot. We were listening to a sublime song earlier. A line in it goes "I don't get angry when my mom smokes pot". My husband sang it to M and then she started repeating it - then saying "my mom smokes pot" over and over. And "I'm going to smoke pot in my pumpkin" LOL. I'm so terrified she is going to go to preschool and say that to her teacher or someone!!!! I told her never to say that again - and you know how that usually goes. Hahah it cracks me up - but it won't crack me up if she tells someone I smoke pot.


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy, that's awesome, so glad to hear it!

that is really funny about the sublime song, every time I listen to sublime in front of my kids I feel bad. LOL. I have found the best way to get them to not say it again is to ignore it. Hope that goes well for you, and hey at least it's not the next couple of lines.

Kate, you will do amazing with 2. It's normal to feel doubt, but listen if I can handle 3 kids you can TOTALLY do 2, Hell you could probably do 1 more then me and kick ass at it without a problem.

so the kids have the bag of candy, Jewel, my 8 year old, told my sister that she was mad I took the candy because she had gone out and collected all of it. smart kids are sometimes a detriment.


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## Mal85

Oh, Kate, you're not the only one! I had my moments of doubt while I was pregnant too. But now that she's here, I really think I am crazy! She's so brand new and we're in the midst of the big transition, so I know this will calm down and we'll find our new normal soon enough. I'm really nervous about DH going back to work on Tuesday. Physically, I'm still moving really slow and sore a lot of the time. It is noticeably better each day, but I just don't think I'll be 100% yet when he goes back. I'm really tempted to ask him to take a couple of vacation days if I'm not feeling up to it by Monday.

Cindy: Yay for good news all around! Keeping my fingers crossed for you! And so funny about the song. I could see Owyn doing something like that too!


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## Everrgreen

Starling - Oh no! That sucks. I hope it heals up quickly for you. You just have so much going on right now! *hugs*

Kate - I think you will do awesome with 2 babes! And you still have 6 months so that will make a difference with where Aubs is (she will probably be playing on her own a lot more). So don't worry! Any thoughts on whether this one is a boy or a girl?? I'm going to guess... BOY! (we need more boys around here )

And I hope your test went well today 

Courtney - I don't think I did a gender guess for you yet.. I really want to say boy because I think that would be a fun little change  But I don't know.. I did have that dream about twin girls 

Oh and you should go look on youtube to the Jimmy Kimmel video of parents telling their kids they ate their candy. Very funny!

Mal - I hope your dh is able to take an extra day or two to be home. I'm sure you will start feeling yourself again soon but it is nice to have the extra support!

Cindy - that's hilarious!! R has said the F word at inappropriate times :/ His daycare teachers haven't had any discussions with me, so that's good (and I don't say the F word very often... I think it slipped out in front of R one time and of course he picked up on it and used it in front of people..)

And yes I very seriously will do it on my own with a sperm donor. I see a lot of benefits to it - I can choose the 'perfect' person and make sure there's no genetic risks. I get to have a baby that is just mine - nobody can leave and deprive me of 50% of my time with my child (not that that is happening now, but it does happen in most parent separations). I don't need anyone to help me parent, I enjoy parenting on my own. I do get lonely sometimes and I would like to date but I don't want to share my life with anyone. I don't see choosing a sperm donor as a bad thing or a plan B - it really seems like the best choice for me.


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: I think it's great that you know that you WILL have another baby in a few yrs.  And it makes me smile that we have such an interesting group of ladies here sticking together.

Well we had our preschool meeting today. The parents voted unanimously to change the format to stations and pretty much play based. We'll keep the morning cirlce but shorten it up, do snack and then do stations/free play until lunch. After lunch will be another circle for music and story. Only problem is, the mom who conveyed this notion to the teacher (we met without her, upon her own suggestion)chose to change it up and told her she could still keep her academic lesson and then we would do stations. And that since she already bought all her crap art project kits that we could keep doing those. What she told the teacher was NOT what the group agreed upon. So now we have a bit of a mess working this part out. I was happy to see so many parents open to the change. I just don't think the teacher is open to it. But the parents seemed open to the idea of finding a new teacher. As for the art projects they've been doing - they have zero creativity and the kids often can't do them on their own. On Friday I was in the classroom all day and they did a pilgrim girl kit. I basically had to put it together for the 3 kids I was helping - I did all the glueing and told them where to stick each piece, according to directions. SO not what I want Makenna doing.

9 dpo tomorrow. I'm getting sick of waiting. Tick tock, tick tock. LOL.

Cindy


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## justKate

Cindy, when do you plan on testing? Just waiting as long as you can?







Fingers crossed for you. Gotta stay positive because you really never know.

Aubrey does "preschool" two days a week for 3 hours, and their crafts are decent. They do lots of watercolor on coffee filter stuff--this month it was fall colors on a coffee filter cut out like a leaf. I think they use an eye dropper or something? Pre-cut-out pumpkin-shaped paper with strings and seed shapes glued on every which-way. Hand print monsters with googly eyes. So basically when she gets there at 9, they go outside or start a craft. Then they do groups, and rotate through 3 stations. So one station makes a craft, one station does "which one is different" type activities, and the other is playing kitchen or puzzles or whatever. Then snack. Then either music with dancing or something else. I have no idea how they accomplish so much!

Ever, I can see how doing it on your own terms could be a good path. And I totally hear you on the possibility of someone taking my kid 50% of the time. Never ever ever.

I'm trying to monitor my language these days. Basically I'd say mother-f***er when I hurt myself or did something stupid, and I whittled that down to "oh mother!" and now its "oh mommy!" My British SIL says "bollocks" instead of the F-word. I think it means bull testicles?

Courtney, funny that she was mad for a good reason. And good that she sees your sister as a reasonable person she can vent to. Your u/s is on Friday, right? I'm anxious to hear your news!


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## Thursday Girl

yes, my sonogram is Friday, then we all find out Saturday at a gender party.

do you all think Clive William sounds good, Hubs says it doesn't. He says that William Clive sounds good but I hate all William nicknames. except maybe liam and that is pretty well used I think.

I haven't told Hubs the girl name I like yet because he won't like it. Cerridwen. (with a K sound)


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## Mal85

Cindy-- How long until you test? I can't wait to hear news, fingers crossed here too!!

Courtney-- I really like Clive. Sounds like a very cool person to me. Can't wait to hear what you find out. Ever since you announced this pregnancy I have only pictured a boy for you!

As for cussing... In the past, I've been really bad about it, but I'm catching myself more and even use my non-cussing phrases when no kids are around. So, it's becoming second nature now. I was extremely vocal pushing Greta out last week, but surprisingly I did not curse even once! I even asked DH later since his mom was there and she's all about no cussing. He said he didn't hear any curse words. There was a lot of "Oh My God!" and "Jesus Christ!", but no cussing, lol! My biggest slip-up is usually "shit". I tend to mutter that under my breath a lot. But that has turned into "Shhhh", instead. I do randomly hear Owyn saying "Shhhh" when she's playing, used the same way I do it. I guess it could be worse.

Sue-- Didn't you recently have a bout of mastitis? I'm wondering if I have that going on right now. Is that something I could get this early on? Greta has been a majorly lazy nurser and only today has started eating more often. I was severely engorged all weekend and never really got much relief. I should have pumped, but I just didn't think of it at the time. I feel like I'm getting worse instead of better. I feel okay when I take Motrin, but it wears off after just a few hours. When it wears off, I feel like I have the flu... I'm achy all over, I've been chilling all day today, the last couple of mornings I feel like I've been hit by a truck when I wake up in the morning. I'm not sure if I've been running a fever. I didn't really start thinking mastitis until this evening and I had just taken some more Motrin, so if I did have a fever, it's gone now. DH is supposed to go back to work tomorrow, but if I keep feeling like this there is no way I can care for both girls by myself. I could probably handle just Greta since she sleeps most of the time right now. I asked him if he could stay home at least while I go to the doc... he's not thrilled about it, but said he would if I still feel like crap in the morning.


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## Nillarilla

Sue I used Quark cheese when I had mastitis. My midwife was an older german lady and she swore by it. I don't know if it would work for just a plugged duct but might be worth a shot. I also found I needed to pump after feeding to get the thick plugged part out.

Starling so sorry that you're hurt.

Cindy my fingers are crossed for you

Thursday I think you're having another girl

Justkate you are strong enough! So incredibly strong and I bet your next one will be a laidback breezy little boy.

Mal I hope you get some help in this first bit.

Omgoodness Dee has gotten so screamy lately. Tonight as a last resort I told her if she didn't stop screaming about bedtime then she would go to bed without her stories. Well she didn't stop of course. So she went to bed without them but she was soooo sad. I need another alternative. Help me stop the screaming mama's my head is going to pop off.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: I'm so sorry you have to be alone so soon! I hope DH stays home a bit longer!! I'd come help you if I were anywhere nearby!

When can I test? Friday is my official test date. I think I could reasonably know on Thursday and *maybe* on Wed. But there are still lines on my tests today that are pink but take forever to come up. So could still be trigger or could be the start of something. No way of knowing for a few more days.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - I'm so anxious for your test day! I hope this is it for you!! 

Nilla - Oh I hate the screaming. R does it too sometimes and it seriously makes my eye start to twitch. I don't know if I have any advice. I try and do my best to prevent things from escalating to that point but sometimes it's not possible. My most recent example is last night - R didn't want to put his pjs on and wanted to sleep in his shirt and boxers, that's fine, I don't care - but then after about 20 minutes of lying in the dark, when we were seconds from falling asleep and all of a sudden 'mommy I want my jamas on', I said no it was time to sleep, and from there he just keep asking, and then demanding, and then screaming and crying and kicking and flipping out. I ignored him for a while but he just would not stop. Finally I yelled at him to go to sleep now because mommy is getting very upset. He did calm down but continued a little muffled whine until he fell asleep. So frustrating!

Mal - I hope you are feeling better this morning (and/or your dh can stay home!) Can Owyn visit a friend or family member for a few hours? Or maybe have a movie day?

Courtney - I'm so excited to hear what you're having! And I like Clive William and Cerridwen! Cerridwen would probably get 'Cerri/Kerri' as a nickname. No J name this time?

I'm keeping R home from daycare today - my dad is coming to town for work and wants to meet for lunch. He's also bringing some skates and a skating helmet for R (he owns a sports store). R is going to be soo excited. I can't wait to take him skating


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## Mal85

I woke up today feeling a little better. I'm hoping this is all just postpartum crap taking a little longer to get better this time. I actually made it through the night without taking any painkillers, so that's improvement! I sent DH to work today and told him to check in on his lunch break. He might work half a day. So far the morning is going okay. I've managed to feed both girls and myself and even got everyone dressed (except for me!). I have a stash of new toys I had set aside for Owyn to pull out during this time. So far, we've only pulled two things out... a magnadoodle and a movie. That's kept her pretty entertained so far. I do have family around willing to help. My FIL is actually going to come get Owyn this afternoon when he gets off work to get her out of the house for a while. Tomorrow, she's going to spend the day at my sister's house to play with her cousins and their new puppy. She's very excited about that and so is Mommy! A friend of mine offered to keep her on Thursday if I needed the break. I might just send her there to play for a few hours. I hate sending her away and don't want her to feel like she's being sent away because of Greta, so I'm limiting the time away from me as much as I can stand. And DH is off this Friday for the holiday, so at least he's only gone 3 days, then we have a long weekend.

Everr: Skates sound like so much fun! That might be a fun Christmas present here! I was done shopping for Owyn, but she ended up getting a big sister gift from someone... something I had already purchased for Christmas. So, I need to take that back and replace it with something else...


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## starling&diesel

Courtney ... You're totally having a boy. And that little dude is going to be the apple of everyone's eyes, especially his trio of big sisters!

Cindy ... I can't wait to hear!

Nilla ... E doesn't scream, but she does take over an hour to get to sleep, complete with tossing and turning and flopping and arranging and rearranging her lovies. Drives me NUTS. Bedtime is just an ongoing saga, isn't it? Bah.


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## Thursday Girl

Mal keep up on the taking care of boobs thing, a case of mastitis can have you floored completely. I was afraid to pick Jewel up when I had mine b/c i was afraid I'd drop her. she was so little i just left her laying in bed all day until Hubs got home from work, but holy moly, it can sneak up fast.

Nilla funny about the cheese, my friend who had her 2 kids in germany told me about that. I didn't try it as I didn't get mastitis after I met her. as for screamers, OMG, Junes screams about stuff all the time or just says "No" or "Mama do". she is super spoiled and I am working on correcting that. It got a lot worse during the start of my pregnancy when I was lazy and mostly laid around.

okay Starling and NIlla guessing the sex of babe, do you have statistics on your previous guesses?? (mine is almost 100% fail rate. lol)

Cindy- waiting anxiously. the 11th is a big day, your results, a new ddc friends wedding and my sono. ll be thinking of you like crazy and crossing my fingers.


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## Everrgreen

So we got R some skates! He is soooo excited! It took me forever to get him to take a nap because he wanted to go skating :/ And public hours are pretty limited so I won't be able to take him until Sunday afternoon. There are some parent and tot skating times which would be great (less busy) but of course they are all during the day through the week (along with every other fun tot program..) Grrr.. Anyway I'll see if I can get him to pose with his skates for a pic 

And I have a big vent: So I wanted to apply for private bursaries through my school and had some time to do the application today (there is almost $83,000 worth of bursaries all using the same application). There is a budget form that has maximums for every category - and most of the maximums are NOT high enough for a single parent (they would be fine for a single PERSON but that's it). AND I have to include my government LOANS as income. So between those 2 things my 'income' is higher than my 'expenses' - even though my 'income' is money I have to pay back, and my 'expenses' are lower than what my real expenses are. So I'm ineligible to apply. Seriously. SO freakin' annoying. I emailed the awards dept to complain about the ridiculousness of this application. I'm sure it will accomplish nothing but at least I've complained


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## Everrgreen

Got a reply - they are going to bring up my concern at the next meeting and possibly redo the budget form. And I was told to fill it out with the correct expenses and make a note of my situation


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## Everrgreen

Me again (3 posts in a row! yay!) Here's my little skater! He says he wants to be a figure skater and not a hockey player.. Both are expensive adventures so maybe he'll just be a recreational skater


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## starling&diesel

Look at that cool dude! He looks SO GROWN UP! Where the bleep did the last three years go, *Ever*?

We took E to the free skate at the community centre a couple of weeks ago. She was so thrilled, and was so excited to lace up the skates and pick a helmet and get a push-thingy and then after about 90 seconds on the ice, she was d-o-n-e. It was quite funny.

And congrats on advocating for yourself and other single mamas, Ever! You are a superhero. Go, girl!

AFM: E got her very first haircut ever. I cried. Quietly, and not so that she could see. She was so excited to cut her hair and had been talking about it for over a month. She wants to get it all shaved off now. Don't think I'm ready to support that choice just yet. Her hair was halfway down her back, so to have it chin length is shock enough for now! There's only so much my heart can take ...

H is awake more and more now. He was ten and a half pounds last week! I have so much more milk this time, it's awesome. I'm still supplementing him about 8oz over 24 hours, but that's way less than I did with E.


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## justKate

Ever, that's amazing that R can stand up on those! He looks super grown up. Its sort of shocking to see! I don't think Aubs could even stand up on ice skates. As for the application, grr, that's stupid that it doesn't account for family size.

Starling, hooray for a growing babe! What a relief to be supplementing less. And a first haircut is a real milestone; I will probably cry too. Aubs' hair is still shorter than what E's is after a cut, so I guess it will be a little while. It might need to be trimmed, I guess, but I kind of like it wild.

Sue, DH tells me there's a big nasty storm approaching AK. Will it pass north of you?

Cindy, how's your willpower holding out?


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: Awww!!! I love the little hockey player!!!! I was a figure skater when I was young. I lived on the ice for years - but quit when I hit highschool. Makenna wants to try it but we've told her when she's older. I think another yr or so. How does Royce do on the ice???

Starling: Oh my! She is adorable! I got a similar cut a couple weeks ago.  We've yet to cut M's. It will just be a trim when we do. Her's is almost to her butt and I love it. I had hair to my butt until I was 5 and cut it shoulder length. I remember very clearly - I had just started kindergarten and the kids didn't recognize me after. LOL.

Courtney: I'm so looking forward to your u/s. I've been feeling boy all along too! Clive is a great name. Why not continue the J theme though?

AFM: So after the other parents unanimously voting to change the preschool curriculum, it has now fallen apart. The teacher said she's not coming back in January and some parents have decided not to as well. I'm cool with it. It was nice - cheap and Makenna had fun. But it wasn't exactly how I wanted it by any stretch. So here is my dilemma. Oddly, 2 other preschools I adore have contacted me this week to tell me they have space for Makenna in January. I am so torn. There is a 3rd I like even better and she can't start there until fall and we won't even know if we get a space until february. There will be like 10 spaces and 40 families trying for them I don't know if I should pick one of thoe 2 with openings now and start in January or just keep her home until next fall and maybe try to do a swap or home based co-op thing with my friend that I started the preschool with. Here are the details of the three. They are all play based co-ops and all have similar fun things to offer - the curriculum is not a factor in my decision bc they are similar:

1) My first choice. 5 minute drive from home, 3 friends send their kids their (M will know at least 2 kids there), hours 9-12 3 days/week but can bring early or stay late with no advance notice for only $8/hr.

2) walking distance from home (5 minute walk), small - only 10 kids so less overwhelming, less work from the parents (still in the classroom but no lame family job that takes 8 hrs/month). The drawback is the hours are 9-2 and 4 days/week. The teacher said she can go 2 days or 3 short days until fall but she does eventually expect 4 days. The days are too long and I don't need that much care. It is more expensive bc of the longer hours.

3) 12 minute drive, 9-1 3 days/week. has extended hours but you mostly need to give lots of advance notice.

I don't know. I have 2 weeks to accept at #2 or #3. I'm leaning toward keeping her home.

Pregnancy stuff: I've been testing every day. Ha. Unfortunately, the trigger is almost 100% gone today. I say unfortunately bc there is nothing else there making the line appear. There is a shadow shadow shadow of a line. Today is 11 dpo. So technically I'm not due for AF until Friday and I know there is still time but I've pretty much lost hope.

We went to an IVF orientation at my clinic yesterday. I did a phone consult with a clinic in NY today and have another phone consult next week and meet with my actual doc next week. If I'm not pregnant, I'll likely be starting the meds for IVF in the next 6 weeks!!! Goal is to do IVF in January. It's always seemed so far away - now it seems so close!!!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Everr: I love him in the skates!! He looks like such a big boy! When did our babies get so big? I was watching Owyn play last night. She's was doing somersaults in the living room and back flips off the couch. I looked at DH and said "When did she turn into a kid?" It's crazy, like I looked away for an instant and she's suddenly not a baby anymore.

Starling: Love the hair cut! Owyn got hers cut in a similar style at the beginning of the summer. I haven't cut it since then. It really shaped her hair up though. It was stringy, still baby hair when we cut it and now it's grown in thicker. I'll probably just give it a trim before Christmas.

Cindy: I'd probably feel the same way about preschool if I were in your shoes. Really no reason to rush it anyway. We could have started Owyn in a preschool here this year since she was potty trained, but having worked in a preschool this year I can certainly tell she would not have been ready at all. We plan on enrolling her in the Montessori school here next fall. Fingers crossed anyway, I haven't found out for sure how much it costs. I know as of 2 years ago it was a price range affordable for us. There are really only 3 preschools in town: the one I work at, one affiliated with the public school and the Montessori school. As far as I know, they've all had rates comparable to each other and I hope the Montessori place has kept up with that. They recently added an elementary and middle school though and I know the grades are very expensive. I'm hoping that didn't carry over to the preschool. I plan on calling them after the first of the year to get more details about enrollment.

We survived our first day without DH at home. I have felt soooo much better today. Owyn did fairly well entertaining herself most of the day and I allowed all the movies she wanted to watch. My FIL came and took her out to play after he got off work, so I got a two hour break this afternoon. She's going to be gone all day tomorrow and I'm going to attempt to get out of the house while I only have the baby here with me. I'm supposed to get Greta's weight checked this week, so I'll probably do that tomorrow and maybe even make it to the grocery store. Oh freedom, lol! I'm just amazed at how well Owyn is doing so far with the new baby. She has her moments when she melts down for no apparent reason, so I know she is feeling the stress some but she isn't taking it out on Greta in any way yet. She adores her sister. She tells me all the time "Mommy, I love her" and today told me she's so happy Greta came out of my belly. It really melts my heart to see Owyn bonding with her baby sister.


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## Vegan Princess

Just thought I'd post this link my SIL sent me. I had to laugh at how accurate the 2.5 yr old one is for how Makenna is acting these days. She is SO demanding and has ZERO patience.

http://www.centerforparentingeducation.org/programs_articlesresource_byage.html

Age 3 sounds rather pleasant. 

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

Everr, of course skates=ice skates you are in Canada. That is totally not what I was expecting  he looks so big and so adorable in them though! I also couldn't figure out why you said he had to wait until Sunday, but i was imagining rollerskates at the time. LOL. I am so happy they called you quickly, crossing my fingers that they remain this open and willing to work with you.

Starling- LOVE E's haircut, it is so cute!! hris asked when we were gogin to cut Junes hair and i said not anytime soon. The other girls got cuts b/c we had to. Jewel had a mullet and that was NOT okay and Josie's hair grew stick straight and could not bu pushed aside, so she needed bangs so she could see. Almost every time they got their haircut the people messed it up. Junes hair is long and looks fine, it stays out of her face and curls delightfully.

Cindy, I think I would hold out for the one you want, especially since you have a back up plan if you don't get one of the spots. as for testing, I admit I know little about all of this, but if the line was gone yesterday and a faint line is appearing today isn't that good? IN any case I am thinking about you all the time, in fact I dreamt about you last night. And January will be here before we know it!

first day without DH is always interesting. sounds like your went fantastic. How are your boobs? Cute about Owyn loving Greta out!! they (older siblings) usually do well with new siblings until the new baby is about 3 months old, the beauty in this is it gives YOU time to adjust to another baby before you have to help them through.

AFM- J names. we never intended to go with a theme regarding J names. It just sort of happened, and honestly I am a little embarrassed when I introduce them all. Hubs is leaning more towards Whitaker if it;s a boy. and I DO LOVE that name. I actually came up with it. I love the nickname Whit. as for Clive, Hubs has written it off but i insist it is still on the list. I was asking ABOUT IT BECAUSE HE says that Clive William doesn't sound good and it would have to be William Clive. I do like the idea of a C name because we are Chris and Courtney then our family balances out with 3 C's and 3 J names. He thinks it doesn't matter. I really think it is a boy, either way I will mourn the loss of the sex it isn't b/ I so want both.


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## Everrgreen

Courtney - I think you should just go with whatever name you love the most and not worry about how it matches/doesn't match within the family. That little one will know you picked a name out of love  And it's nice that you are equally excited about having either gender - I would be the same! Either you get your first son or you get a FOUR girls - both are awesome! I will admit I'm a bit jealous of your family 

Cindy - Haha - R actually is a blend of 2.5 and 3 (which makes sense, right?) I've heard people say that 3 is so much better, but other says it's so much worse lol! I try and just enjoy each phase for what it is knowing that he'll be grown up before I know it









And I think you should keep her home and if possible do some swaps with your friend. Sounds like a good plan!

Mal - I'm glad you are feeling better and had a good day! It is so sweet that Owyn is in love with her sister (you can remind them of that when they are 16 and 14 

Starling - Oh wow - what a big girl! R still doesn't have much hair, but what he does have is frizzy and messy - but still, I just can't cut it! I'm happy to hear your milk production is better this time around - yay!

R is leaning on the couch in the photo, so not 'standing'. But he can walk in them while holding my hand. We haven't actually gone skating yet! The first available ice time that we can go to is Sunday afternoon. R is asking all the time though, I wish we could go tonight! He doesn't understand why we can't just go lol!

I also can't believe how big he is getting (how big all our 'babies' are getting!) Sometimes it leaves me in awe that this person who I'm having CONVERSATIONS with is that same little helpless newborn. Now he has ideas, and opinions, and questions. It's sort of surreal. And it just keeps on going from here! Ah, now I'm all teary


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## Thursday Girl

oh does it keep on going, wait until they roll your eyes at you and think you are just such a dork. lol. it really does happen quick. Jewel put on this cinderella dress we have and it just floored me b/c when we first got it the dress went to her ankles and now it's at her knees. sometimes it's hard to reconcile this 8 year old to the little pudgy baby I had; the sweet wise 5 year old to the sticky up haired baby; or the precocious talk back 2 year old to my sweet needy newborn. I mean I can remember sitting their the day after I found out I was pregnant with Jewel thinking "wow, 7 months is a long time to wait to meet this baby" I mean it seemed so far away and here we are approaching her 9th birthday!! they always said it goes fast, but you just can't comprehend until you watch them grow yourself.


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## AKislandgirl

Hi Mamas! I just read everything to catch up! Lots to read!

Cindy: Thanks for the mastitis info. I'm going to pick up some lecithin this week because I had plugged ducts several times in the first year of breast feeding. Still crossing fingers for you for this cycle. Thinking about you a lot lately!

Nilla: Thanks for the cheese idea too. I've never heard of it and know I couldn't get it here though.

mal: how are you handling life now that DH is back to work? Hope you are feeling better.

Loving the pics of the big kids! It is hard to believe it has been nearly 3 years!! R is going to be awesome on those skates! We are thinking about getting some for Fiona this winter too. We have an ice rink in town as well as lakes that freeze pretty solid that people skate on. I haven't been in years though! I'll need some laps around the ice before I attempt to help her! DH won't even try! LOL!

I know I'll cry too when it comes to Fiona's first hair cut! Her's is long and curly- I'm so afraid that if we cut it the curls will be gone! It will break my heart! It can be so wild though and DH keeps hinting that maybe we should deal with it! If I let it go a weak with out combing it she would have dread locks for sure!

Here is a shot that shows how it normally looks...


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## AKislandgirl

Me again!

Starling: How is your solo parenting going? Hope DP brings you back some good chocolate and wine! That is what I would want anyway!

Weaning: I'm hoping to wean F soon. (I think, I do waver on this a bit!) I want a bit more time to pass first since we are still adjusting to life with Maeve but I don't really know how to wean her. She does skip some of her usual times these days if she is distracted. She typically nurses right when she wakes up, going down for a nap, waking up from a nap, and going to bed. Occasionally another time in there. Nursing sessions are just a few minutes. Any ideas Mamas? I was thinking gradually dropping one at a time...or do you think its easier to just stop all together?


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## Mal85

I love F's curls! I would be scared to cut them too. I had curls when I was a baby and they were gone after my first hair cut. My mom said it broke her heart! It could make her curls tighter though, if they're meant to be. My friend just cut her boy's hair for the first time. He has the cutest curls and she was afraid she'd lose them too. But it looks even curlier now since he got it trimmed!

I have no real advice on the weaning, I got lucky with Owyn when she weaned herself. It makes more sense to me, though, to cut out one nursing session at a time. Or maybe cut out the sessions when she wakes up and leave the ones for going to sleep (or vice versa depending on which one she seems to need more)?

Things are getting much better here, physically speaking anyway. I'm still dead tired by the time Owyn goes to bed and the house is a total disaster most of the time, but I am feeling much better! This is probably tmi, but yesterday I passed the biggest clot I've ever seen in my life. I could feel it come out when I went to the bathroom and was shocked by it! Google tells me the size was normal, so I didn't worry too much about it, but I've actually been bleeding a lot less ever since that passed.

I was pretty bummed yesterday as I was looking forward to a full day at home with just the new baby. And Owyn was soooo excited about going to her cousin's house to play with their new puppy, but my niece came down with strep throat at the last minute and we had to cancel the day. Owyn asked me about it all day long and was so upset she couldn't go over there. So, today she's having a playdate at my friend's house. She has a 1 year old boy and was already scheduled to baby sit our other friends' kids, a 1.5 year old and a 3 year old, all good friends of Owyn's. Owyn was very excited about going and I'm getting my day off with the baby today. Greta seems to be enjoying it as much as me. She's actually able to sleep without her sister here making lots of noise, so we are relaxing the day away!


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## starling&diesel

Sue ... I think I mentioned this up thread somewhere, but now that E is officially weaned, I can explain it a bit more.

I resorted to the Num Num Fairy. Not my style, typically we don't do rewards or such, but I knew it would work for this. I told her the Num Num Fairy would come for three nights. The first morning there would be a small present (a few Schleich animals), the second night she'd bring a bigger one (magnadoodle and sticker book) and the third and last day a big present (beautiful set of blocks). I had all those goodies from when H was born in case she needed distraction, but we hadn't brought any of it out.

She bought into it entirely. She was quite weepy the first night and morning, and a little weepy all day the second day, but she didn't even ask about the fairy or ask to nurse on the third day. It totally worked for us. I told her that the fairy was going to help another little boy or girl finish with num-nums. She talks about not having them anymore, but isn't asking to nurse. I am so glad to be done with it, to be honest. I'm not up for tandem nursing.

My biggest challenge was today at the doc's when E got her flu shot ... I was surprised that she didn't even ask to nurse! If she had, through tears, I would've had a hard time saying no. She was happy with her sticker and promise of hot chocolate.

Good luck with whatever route you take!

ps. We had the same nursing schedule as you up until the fairy came.

Mal ... Quite the clot, indeed! Enjoy your baby time!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: My midwife warned us all in advance of those clots. Says she gets calls from patients freaked out that they just passed their liver. LOL. It's normal. 

BFN here. IVF here we come!!! Or maybe god will smile on me and I'll conceive naturally over the 2 months before I start IVF. No more meds or IUI until then.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Cindy ... Get on board that IVF train ... Whoo whoo! And I SO would not be surprised if you got preggers in your med-free months. You sure hear stories like that all the time! I can't wait for you to get your IVF BFP straight off the bat!


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## Vegan Princess

Thanks Starling - I better get an IVF BFP right off the bat or it's on to donor eggs. I'm not riding that train too long. I'm cool with donor egg - I just want my baby already!!! So the way I see it, I WILL be pregnant by April or so - whether it's my own egg or donor. And I so am not lucky enough to get my BFP naturally. LOL. But one can wish, right? Congrats on weaning. I was a bit surprised to read that you had but I also know it would seem sooo hard to tandem with supply issues.

I'm so scared to give up preschool ladies! Makenna has been so demanding lately - I love knowing I get a few hours of sane time to myself. I used to have a weekly swap before this - but that friend has her daughter in preschool and is about to have #2. And I'll never get to do yoga - DH works too late now. Argh. But I also never get this time with my baby back after it's gone.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - I'm sorry your IUI didn't work out. But it's nice you've got everything set up for your IVF - yay!! It won't be long now and you'll have baby #2 on the way 

As for preschool, I can totally understand freaking out about not having some free time. Is there anyone else you can ask about a swap? Or maybe hire a babysitter for few hours one day a week?

Starling - That's great that weaning went smoothly for you (I'm also surprised to hear you weaned!) I'm not sure R is ready yet.. He still nurses at bedtime and sometimes in the morning. And sometimes on the weekend for his nap (through the week he's at daycare) I think I will leave it alone now until he's 3 and then maybe we'll try the fairy idea 

Mal - Yikes - sounds like a big clot! Oh all the wonderful 'tmi' moments of birth and babies lol! Glad to hear things are going well and you had a nice day alone with Greta 

AK - Love the pic - she has great hair, I wouldn't want to cut it either! I don't know which weaning method is best (probably depends on the kid, like everything!) I like the idea of cutting down to just bedtime and I would probably try that first. Although I also like Starlings idea.

R has been putting his skates on all the time. Last night he was walking up and down the hallway - by himself! I hope he enjoys skating because that will be something fun to do this winter!


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## AKislandgirl

Hmm... I really like the idea of the weaning fairy. I'll have to think about that. I think it just might work. Maybe E's fairy will indeed be off to help another child wean!

Cindy, so sorry to hear about the IUI. But so good that you already have your IVF plan in place. This will be it girl!

Mal: yeah, I had a huge clot too. Cindy's description of the liver is just about right! Goodness this birthing business is crazy, isn't it?!

Another question for you Mama's....

What have you done for vaccines? Fiona has only had the full series of DTaP. She had one (or two?) of the Pc but didn't react too well to it as a baby. We are trying to decide what we want to do as she approaches 3. Curious how you all have handled it. Maeve will likely just get a few assuming she doesn't react to them. (DTaP, Pc, and Hib).


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## Everrgreen

R is still vax-free. I've yet to make a decision.. There are some that I will definitely (I think.. lol) do before he hits his teenage years but for now I'm not sure there's much point. I did take him once with the intent of getting the DTaP last spring but then the dr didn't have the one I wanted so I decided to think about it some more and then I never went back. Actually I may do DTaP.. My last dr was mainly just worried about tetanus. I'll be getting a new dr though now that I've moved so I may wait and see what the new dr thinks (this will be my 3rd dr - the first 2 were mostly indifferent about vaccines which didn't help me). I


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## Vegan Princess

We've done most things, I think. I've left a few out. Def didn't do chicken pox. Can't remember what else I left out? But we spread them way out. I was taking M to the dr every month for vaccines for ages. I think I'd do the same with a new baby.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

vaccines. Juniper actually has more then Josephine. June has 2 of the DTaP. Josie they bullied me into one of the hep (shakes head) I am also getting DTaP for the tetanus, we have a lot of nails, screws, and glass in our backyard. I need to go over research again, I was planning on starting Josie (now 5) when she was 2 years, but they didn't have the one I wanted ate and I just didn't go back. I am super annoyed they don't offer the vaccines seperate anymore. I also need to talk to our new Dr and see if they can get the kind they mix up. My 8 year old has all her shots but not all her boosters.

Starling, yay for weaning. I want to wean Junes. I should tell her the story of the Na-na fairy and see how she reacts. I have limited her to 2 nursings, she doesn't always take it well, but my sanity demands it.

Cindy sorry for the BFN,

Okay i read through the posts, but i am so tired right now.It's hard to keep everything straight. I woke up at 1 am head swimming with all sorts of stuff. then after an hour and some sharing was ready to sleep, 1 minute after laying in bed I get a cal from my mom. I had to take her to the ER. so I have been up for 5 hours now. and I smell like hospital. today is my ultrasound. and here I will just copy this next bit.

Quote:


> also last week i found a lump in one of my breasts. I thought maybe it was just milk or something. I have been breastfeeding so long it's hard to tell what is normal. so i didn't think about it for a week thinking maybe it would go away. it is still there, different from the other side. The thing is it feels much bigger then i imagined a lump would feel. I was mad worried in the shower last night and it is still niggling at me. I am going to ask my midwife tomorrow to feel it because last pregnancy she asked me if I was feeling for lumps during my pregnancy. Plus I have no idea what kind of doctor you go see for something like that. I haven't been to a dr in, years, I don't really remember the last time I went in for a check up or anything. I have seen midwifes and that is it, an OB once. An ER doc. I don't think I have had a regular Dr visit since I was about 14. (I'll be 30 in January). My mom never took me once I move din with her, I had insurance through my dad, but I think my mom just didn't have money for the co-pay or time. I had insurance for awhile but never went to see the dr. I don't even know how often an adult is supposed to go. It's probably nothing and I am just worried over nothing


I read from google that most lumps are nothing, so hopefully it's nothing. it's not a lump like a circle which i always imagined I should be feeling for. It's like a thicker part of tissue or something. the thing i kept thinking about was how it would effect breastfeeding, Juniper and even more so the new baby. I know it's jumping the gun, but it's just instantly the first worry.


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## Mal85

I'll be thinking of you Courtney. My cousin just had a very similar scare. She's only 34 and found a lump about a month ago. They did an ultrasound to see if it was liquid filled or solid. They said if it was liquid filled it would go away on its own, but it was a solid mass. She just had it removed this week and got the call yesterday that it was benign. But still a very scary situation. It's something I think about a lot since I have breast cancer coming at me from both sides of my family. Hoping you get good news.

As for vaccines, we did a selective schedule with Owyn. We didn't start her on any until she was 4 months old. We opted out of the Hep B, Rotavirus, Prevnar, and Vericella. So she's had DTaP, HIB, Polio... she started her MMR series. I feel like I'm forgetting one in there, but can't think of it off the top of my head. She's currently up to date on the vaccines we've given her. I think we'll stick to the same vaccines for Greta, but maybe won't hold off the few months. It was kind of pain remembering which ones she'd been given and when she needed to go back for the next round. I really didn't know if we were caught up until she had that bad cut on her head and they looked it up in her charts for us.


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## Mal85

Me again! I was just thinking about Christmas and got so excited. How excited are you mamas for sharing this holidays with our little (big?) ones this year. Owyn is actually starting to "get it" with Christmas. She loves the commercials that come on TV (







). She'll just watch them in awe and whisper "Christmas, Mommy..." like she's just amazed by it. We walked through a Christmas section in a department store a couple of weeks ago and she was soooo excited. Last year was a lot of fun on Christmas day because she was excited about opening gifts and being with all her cousins for the day, but I think this year we'll get the excitement leading up to the day. And, for me, that's the funnest part!


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## Thursday Girl

ughh, my midwife wasn't there, so I know nothing. I did get the sono of the little one and it's pretty cute (honestly every time i want to say he, but we don't know yet)it had it's legs crossed across each other. Baby didn't move much, I think s/he was sleeping.

Junes liked the Christmas section we went through the other day, the baby trees, the lawn ornaments, the sparkly ornaments and the singing rudolph.


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## AKislandgirl

Courtney: I'll be thinking about you! Hope you get some answers soon! Can't wait to hear about the big reveal tomorrow. I'm guessing boy too!

I'm getting really excited for Christmas too! We have a big holiday bazaar here tomorrow so it really has me thinking about the holidays. I agree the lead up to it is great! I think it will be really fun with Fiona this year! I've been thinking about her Christmas gifts- we are getting her a play kitchen and I'm probably more excited about that then anything! I know she'll love it.

Still have the problem of grandparents giving totally inappropriate gifts but we gave them the idea of either a balance bike or a set of interlinking blocks. We'll see how it plays out. I usually edit the box of gifts once it arrives anyway. How long will I be able to get away with that do you think?! My SIL asked me which Disney characters she was into- I told her none because she doesn't know any and we try to avoid stuff with characters anyway. That about put her over the edge! Ha! I figure that I should just carry on with the role of family freak anyway! (horror of horrors that Fiona is nearly 3 and doesn't know her Disney princesses!)









Thanks for the feedback regarding vaxing!


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## Mal85

Can't wait to hear the news Courtney!!

Our local holiday craft fair is supposed to be next week. But, our local football team is currently undefeated and playing to go to the state championship right now. If they win their game tomorrow, they'll be playing a home game the same day as the craft fair and the fair will be canceled since it's held at the high school gym. I hate to say I don't want them to win, but I DO want to go to my craft fair! I usually find several gifts there!

So, I finally forced myself to go to the doc today. DH was off, so it was easier to get out. Took G in for a weight check, almost back up to birth weight! And asked about how off I've felt. It has been better but some symptoms are just lingering. Sure enough, I have a UTI. Stupid catheter.


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## Thursday Girl

ughh uti's suck


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Oh that sucks about the uti :/ And I agree that a craft sale is much more fun than a football game 

AK - Haha, yeah R isn't too familiar with Disney characters either. He has watched a few popular movies but I don't make a bit thing of it and don't buy any movie related toys/clothes so he doesn't have the obsessions that I've seen some kids have. He is pretty into Dinosaur Train but his only dinosaur toys are unrelated to the show.

Courtney - I'm so excited for the reveal tomorrow! I will be looking for that cake pic  It's probably a good thing he/she had his/her legs crossed otherwise you may have seen the boy/girl bits on your own. Did the tech do some further searching while you looked away?

As for the lump, I'm sure it is nothing, but definitely get it checked out so you know.

RE: Christmas - I am getting excited about it too! R is talking about it a little bit, he understands that it is something special but I don't think he knows that he will get presents. He is very excited about getting our decorations out which we will do maybe this weekend or one evening next week. I got him some Playmobil dinosaur stuff in the summer at a outlet store so that will be his big gift. I still need to get things for his stocking (not sure what though). And I thought about getting him books and/or clothes but he gets those things throughout the year and doesn't need either so I probably won't. I'm having a hard time coming up with ideas for friends/family that want to buy for him. My mom was thinking of a train table which would be nice as long as it's not too big.


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## starling&diesel

Courtney ... You probably don't remember but I found a lump in my left breast when E was about eight months old. I had to wait three weeks for the mammogram ... it was so scary to think about the possibilities while waiting for the test. It was benign, but scared the crap out of me. I know how it feels to be terrified, while trying to be realistic about it likely being nothing at all.

As for your u/s ... I can't wait to find out!

Mal ... So sorry to hear that you have a UTI. Cranberry juice! Unadulterated cranberry juice! Clears mine up before they even get really going. I hope it resolves quickly for you.

Christmas ...E has no idea about Disney characters. Not a clue. Other than Winnie the Pooh, that is. Most of our loved ones are on board with giving more simple toys with open-ended possibilities, but my best friend's mom still insists on going over the top. I let dd have it all, and then as she loses interest, I get rid of the things we're not going to keep.


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## starling&diesel

Oh, and I think we're going to get E a dollhouse for Christmas! I'm with you, Sue ... I think I'm more excited than E will be!


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## Thursday Girl

oh she would love a dollhouse, they are GREAT presents.

Junes is getting a giant panda bear that is the size of her approx. I just need to FIND one to buy. then she will get some yo gabba gabba toothbrushes and figurines in her stocking along with a chocolate orange, a nail polish, and maybe a chapstick.

My family won't go crazy, they always get the girls thoughtful things. My oldest sister only does experiences and not toys, my twin sister is taking her to yo gabba gabba, and my middle sisters always gets her some nice wooden toy or clothes. I will probably make her a shirt with foofa on it. One grandma is broke, one buys them clothes and books, and one sends them $20 to spend now and a sometimes a savings bond for later.


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## Thursday Girl

Starlign I did forget that. I have pushed it out of my head for the moment.


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## starling&diesel

Courtney? Boy? Girl? Can't wait to hear!


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## Everrgreen

I hope it's ok if I share Courtney's news from fb...

The cake was PINK


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## starling&diesel

I was WRONG? (Okay, not a surprise ... I've only ever been right about my own babies.)

So exciting! Congratulations, Courtney!


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## Thursday Girl

totally okay, i would have gotten on sooner but right after the gender party we had a birthday party to go to. I was SHOCKED, i was so sure it would be blue. Last night I dreamt I saw the sonogram picture and in the picture there was clearly a penis, the real picture was very hard to decipher. LOL


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## AKislandgirl

Congratulations! I want to hear how everyone reacted! Such a fun idea!


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## Thursday Girl

I am not really sure how everyone reacted because i was jumping up and down and screaming. Chris pretty much knew it. Jewel was a little sad it wasn't a boy. Josie was really upset because even though she originally wanted a girl she had set her heart on boy girl twins. Chris took her to play in the creek, she came and told me later she had gone to relieve her stress or something like that. there was a lot of yelling i think. yeah, I was pretty self involved. I didn't even look at Chris really. some people took video so when i get it I will post it.


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## Vegan Princess

That's awesome! I love the idea of having someone bake a cake the color! With Makenna, we had them write it down and put it in an envelope too (and she wrote it in highlighter so we couldn't hold it up to the light). We got married a few days later and the day before our wedding, we took an awesome hike along the ocean and opened it.  We were just camping down near there a couple months ago and as we drove by that spot, it was still so special to me.

Well AF arrived today, on time. I'm getting pretty excited for IVF and it'll be here so soon! My cycles are short, so two more cycles of trying naturally and then I start my meds. I'd guess the actual procedure will be towards middle to second half of january! Lots of my friends are having babies this week. Very exciting. 2 so far and 2 any minute.

We had a great day at the zoo. Makenna and I went alone on Thursday and had so much fun we took daddy back today. Our membership started this week. 

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

there is a video on my facebook page, but it isn't vimeo or youtube so I can't post it here. Oh and my sister suggested that since it was a girl, our fourth girl ,like in little women, that March would be a good middle name. I am 99% sure one of her middle names will be March.


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## justKate

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Mal85*
> 
> As for vaccines, we did a selective schedule with Owyn. We didn't start her on any until she was 4 months old. We opted out of the Hep B, Rotavirus, Prevnar, and Vericella. So she's had DTaP, HIB, Polio... she started her MMR series. I feel like I'm forgetting one in there, but can't think of it off the top of my head. She's currently up to date on the vaccines we've given her.


Those are the same ones we've done for Aubs. DTap, HiB, one Polio. One MMR at 2 years; she probably needs another, but I don't plan on giving her anything until after this baby is born. She got one Hep B in the NICU because they wouldn't let her leave without it, and told me I could decline it but that it wouldn't help me get her out of there, which was the only thing I wanted at the time. So we may do others as she gets older, but for now I'm comfortable with what we've chosen.

Courtney, big hugs to you. I hope you're able to get the possible-lump issue resolved asap so that you can enjoy this pg more. My bet is that it is nothing, or a benign cyst or something, because BFing is supposed to dramatically reduce your risk of breast cancer, from something I read a while back.... Keep us posted on how you're doing and feel free to vent. And congrats on your little girl! I think it is perfect. And if you happen to have a surprise boy, that would be okay, too.

Cindy, poo about the BFN, but hooray for shortish cycles. January is SO SOON. Not sure if I mentioned it before, but I would probably hold out for your first choice in preschools if possible. The others just aren't quite right, so no sense in rushing it unless you really need the time to yourself. I mean, I do, but that's just me. Its sort of a balance I guess.

Now its bath time so I'll have to come back later for more!

I love the idea of a zoo membership, but I don't think there are any nearby. I've been trying to encourage the family to get Aubs event tickets or memberships for Christmas and her birthday, but they're not so in to it. Specifically, the circus is coming nearby in February and again in April, and I know she would love it.

For Christmas, she's getting this radio flyer scooter as her big gift from Santa. Grandpa is making her a kitchen a la Ana White. I've made some felt food, and will make her an apron and some pot holders or kitchen towels or something for it. And she'll get books.

I don't think she really gets Christmas at all. We haven't talked that much about it yet, so her exposure is pretty much limited to preschool and shopping trips. Yesterday we were out with my mom and saw Christmas trees and decorations, and she was excited--like "ooh, what dat? Yook at dat one!" But there's no gift expectation yet, thankfully. As for characters, I guess its inevitable that they'll become a part of our lives, but I'm trying to minimize it. Or at least be selective about which ones. Right now she knows Sesame Street and the Wonder Pets. I took her to the Winnie the Pooh movie, so I guess she knows them. She likes Curious George (books) and recognizes Dora although I'm not sure she knows its a TV show. Oh, and princesses. She saw Cinderella at my parents', so she knows her. I guess it could be worse. Sponge Bob or something.

Aubs and I have had the coughing crud all week, and now DH is getting it. My parents were here Fri and Saturday, and my mom was actually well behaved and helpful, so that was nice. I've invited everyone for Thanksgiving, so it will be interesting to see how that goes. Including us, it would only be 8 people max, but that's more than I'm used to. This time of year is really fast--one holiday after another, after a trip to see DH's family in CA, then back only 13 days before Christmas. Its only a 5 day trip, but I'm planning on staying with my Grandma a few days on either side of the trip because my parents will be in the UK for 10 days visiting my brother. I'll also be babysitting the chickens.

I'll be 20 weeks here in a couple of days, and this baby seems so different and so similar at the same time. I'm feeling the same overall, but s/he has a head or something directly on top of my bladder already, which means I pee when I cough hard. Didn't have that last time at all. The baby is easier to feel through my stomach, too, even though I was heavier to start compared to last time. Maybe just because I know what I'm feeling now. So strange and wonderful at the same time.

Sorry I didn't get more personals. My brain has been fried from the crud and the extra people and the general business of the season already. Hope everyone has a great week!


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## Everrgreen

R and I just woke up from a 4 hour nap.. It might be a late night tonight now! R stayed at my moms last night because I had friends in town and we went out (which was so much fun!). R didn't go down until about 3:30 and I tried to not join him.. But I was so tired and it was lovely  I think I could even go back to sleep soon lol!

I took R to the arena today! It didn't go too well.. He said it was too slippy, which of course it is, that's the point. We skated around a couple times but I had to hold every ounce of his weight while his feet slipped all over the place. So it was killing my arms and back and I had to quit. R was upset :/ I need to come up with a new plan on how to teach him to skate.

Courtney - Congrats again on having girl number four! I guess my dream was right  (well, except for the 'twin girls' part) Are you still thinking of Cerridwen? I love your idea of using March for a middle name!

Kate - How is the pregnancy going?? Do you have any thoughts on if it's a boy or girl? Any name ideas?

Cindy - January will be here before you know it! And you have Christmas to help pass the time. Will you have more than one egg implanted for the IVF?


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## justKate

Well it sounds like it could have been worse. I have no idea how you'll teach him--maybe they have just shoes w/o blades that the little ones can wear to get used to the ice?

I don't have any feelings on the gender of this baby anymore. At first I was sure that it was a girl, but now I have no idea. My dad has had baby boy dreams, and I haven't really had any at all. We'll find out on the 22nd. If its a boy, he will be Zane Archer. Our girl names are more ordinary to sort of "match" with Aubrey. Her middle name will be Jean. First names are potentially: Marion (my favorite, but there's the double-n thing), Sidney/Sydney (but our last name starts with an S, which could be annoying), Mallory (don't laugh, Mal!). And there are others, but those come to mind.... I think we'll wait until the 22nd to really think about it any more. The thing with Jean as a middle name (which isn't negotiable), is that everything that sounds flow-y with it ends with a -y, -ie, or -a. I don't know. Very open to suggestions, though!


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## Thursday Girl

we have a zoo about 2 miles away, it was awesome having passes when the older girls were younger. I'd love to get one again b/c i know Junes would love it. If one isn't close though you really have to consider if you will actually drive there. We used to have passes to sea world, which is about 45min-1 hour away and we didn't go very often because of the drive.

Kate- we haven't talked names too much for girls. the boys name was decided easily. Why are you using Jean again? I haven't decided on the 2nd middle name but am tossing around Francis and Teresa. I tried looking for names in some of the birth announcement threads in other DDC.

Everr, don't they have the things for them to hold onto while they skate. I have no other ideas, we have only been ice skating once since the kids were born. although I might take them this year. they set up an ice skating rink in downtown Tampa.


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## justKate

Jean is my, my mother's, and my maternal grandma's middle name. I broke the trend by giving Aubrey Ruth for a middle name, which is my paternal grandma's first name. She means more to me than the other women, and since she's 87 I wanted her to be around to know that Aubs was named for her. So if this one is also a girl I sort of have to give it Jean for a middle name. And I sort of want to--but mostly I think it will hurt my family and I'll regret it later if I don't.

Cindy, I read in the news recently that implanting more embryos doesn't necessarily lead to a higher birth rate with IVF...wonder if that's true, and if it affects how doctors decide how many to put in? Keeping in mind that twins would be fine, but sextuplets like John & Kate Plus 8 would be a nightmare--and they only put in 3. I guess it will depend on how many they get and how healthy they are. I'm so anxious for Jan to get here for you!


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## Mal85

Yay for another girl, Courtney!! I love using March for one of her middle names. I adore Little Women!

Kate: You should totally use Mallory, lol!! There aren't enough of us! I also really like Marion, personally. Funny story regarding my name... when I was maybe 10 years old I went with my parents to visit my sister when she lived in Florida. They had some friends we met and they gushed over my name the whole time and how much they loved it. A couple of years later, they had a baby girl and named her Mallory. I always felt so honored!

Everr: I watched some reality show recently and this family took their toddlers ice skating for the first time. An instructor came out and worked with them for a little while. He had them get their balance off the ice at first by walking around for a while. Then, once they got on the ice he had them sort of march on the ice rather than trying to skate. He stood behind them, supporting their weight under their arms and told them to march or stomp their feet. It seemed pretty effective. I took my niece ice skating when she was around this age and it was exactly like you described. We made it about 2 laps around before I nearly died from supporting her weight (and trying to keep my balance!) the whole time.

DH took Owyn to the bathroom during church this morning. He said she was sitting on the toilet going poop and announced to him "Daddy, I have a hole in my butt!" He was still stifling laughter from that one when he brought her back. Then, tonight when she was putting PJs on, she kept trying to look at her butt and saying "Where'd my butthole go?! I can't see it!" I don't know where the sudden interest in her butt came from, but she was cracking us up! Oh, the things our two-year-olds think of!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: LOL!!!!

Kate: We'll do 2 embryos - god willing we end up with 2! I'm cool with twins and so is DH. The twin rate for transferring 2 is actually only 25% - it does up your odds. I think they start putting 3-4 in when you're like 40+ and the twin rate at that point is way below 25%. However, if we end up doing donor eggs, I'm not sure if we'll do 2. The twin rate is higher bc the eggs are coming from women in their low 20s and are super healthy. So we'll see. And Jon & Kate actually conceived the 6 via regular sex. She had 5 or 6 eggs from taking injectible drugs. She's planned to do IUI and it got cancelled bc she had too many eggs. They were advised NOT to try at home - and they did (as most people do in their shoes). The risk of higher order multiples is actually much higher from IUI than IVF now that they usually don't put in more than 2 embryos in IVF. For example - I had 3-4 eggs this last IUI. Theoretically, I could have conceived triplets. And my doc actually did make me agree to reduce to twins if I did! It was only a verbal ok though - nothing they could have held me to. They were very clear at my IVF orientation that they consider triplets a failure on their part.

Hmmm I'm curious what yall come up with on the skating front. I figure skated for yrs. But the arenas near us actually say the kids should be older before trying. I can't recall if it was 3 or 4?

Memberships. I got the zoo one and one to this super cute storybook land place called Fairyland - it's totally geared to the toddler set. It's way old and small but Makenna loves it and they do a live puppet/marionette show that she enjoys. I got both of those memberships for half price through a mama deals website. They are both fairly close. We've have one to this awesome aquarium/science place in San Francisco that expires at the end of the month. I can't decide if I should renew or not. We love going but hardly make it there. I also have a friend who can get me in on her pass. But to pay to go would be $35 for me for 1 time - vs $99 for me + guest for the yr. We also had a children's museum membership but let is lapse bc it was way too far to use often. We have cuter childrens museums 5 minutes from my house. I feel like I need to have a lot of stuff for us to do if we stop preschool. And I am SO torn about what to do. I do think we should wait for the 1 I want but that is 10 months away!!! The idea of no free time is really freaking me out. I just got used to a little. Plus DH is working more lately. Ugh. I'm so bad at decisions!

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Mal* ... SO FUNNY!

*Cindy* ... I was so nervous transferring two embryos last December (that was the cycle that I got a BFN) because I was terrified of twins. Our clinic has a 25% twin rate too. That's pretty high, in my estimation! I was so sure I was going to have twins, after getting pregnant on the first try with E. I was *almost* glad that there was only one embryo left when I did the last transfer (the other one didn't survive the thaw), because I was so scared of twins. I know my personal limits, and I would struggle with twins, I am sure. But I was also prepared to have twins too, if that makes sense. I'm glad for my two singletons. Truly.

*Memberships*: We have a membership to the aquarium and one to the science centre. We use the aquarium one often, but not the science one as much. My goal is to use it more this year (if we get it as a Christmas present again.) *Cindy*, you will quickly assume a routine that will work well for you and M. Heck, I'm so busy that I can't manage to make playdates happen with kids and mamas I'd love to hang out with! Monday: storytime or swimming or park, Tuesday: park or kindergym, Wednesday/Thursday is our weekend, Friday: local family resource centre or park, Saturday, kinder gym/park/other field trip, Sunday: swimming, park, what have you. We get out the door each morning between 9-10am, depending, go do our morning outing, home for lunch and nap, then either out to the park or library or do an indoor craft if the weather is crap. The day flies by!

The first one is E 'reading' to H ... love the smile!

The second one is E making quinoa chocolate chip cookies all by herself!

And yes, H is quite cross-eyed! Our doc is going to refer us to an optometrist if it doesn't resolve. I know new babies are often cross-eyed but his is going on and on and not getting any better. He's got a far bit of amblyopia (lazy eye) in his genes, so it won't be a surprise if he has a lazy eye too.


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## justKate

Cindy, interesting about the clinic's view on triplets as a failure. I sort of like that--shows that they're not octomom-crazy. Not sure that I could reduce either, but twins would be manageable. Not fun, but manageable!

Starling, I love the photos. Are they really concerned about H's eyes already? Seems normal to me, but if there's a history, maybe its different. My Gpa had a lazy eye and none of his kids/grandkids/great-grands ended up with it, so fingers crossed that it will just resolve quickly.


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: I LOVE the top pic! Bummer about H's eye. I hope it resolves on it's own. Poor little dude.

And I do agree - twins is NOT my first choice. But at this point, two sounds WAY better than none. 

Did I mention M got croup AGAIN???? A sniffly nose at bedtime and woke up with it. Everything goes into croup for her these days. Thank goodness we have a gigantic bottle of the medicine. It's only 1 dose per 24 hours so the bottle is lasting a long time. It's saved us from having to go to the ER the last 2 times she got it.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

uggh. poor M!

My friends son was cross eyed, he had 2 operations and now his eyes are regular, although oddly I believe he does have a lazy eye.

I totally think twins would have been awesome, you know 1 of the first 3 pregnancies. I am glad it's just one this time.

going to see my midwife at her house (unless she gets called to a birth) so she can feel the lump. she seems optimistic that it has something to do with the pregnancy. I hope she doesn't because my girls want to see her girls too. My 2 oldest are about her 2 girls ages.

I really like Aubrey and Mallory together


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## AKislandgirl

Courtney: So glad you can get your midwife to check out the lump!

Everr: Do they have walkers or a box that he can push around? I've seen kids learn to skate that way.

Mal: Love that story! LOL!

Starling: Great photos! Recipe please?! We made some almond flour sugar cookies today. I'm not loving them (but eating them anyway!) so I'm always after a good gluten free cookie recipe! E's haircut really is adorable!

Kate: love all of your names but think Sydney Jean is adorable! Archer is such a great name too. I couldn't get serious about names until I knew the sex.

Cindy: Croup sounds awful! Hope she is feeling better soon. I think I would hold off for the preschool you really love! In the mean time can you find a sitter- a high school student or something to come once a week or something?

So the last 2 mornings Fiona has not asked to nurse! I've held her off during the day even though she has asked and told her she has to wait until bedtime. I told her we will have to keep a look out because the weaning fairy will be coming soon and it means no more nu-nu for her. She perked up about the presents but didn't seem to stoked on saying good bye to nu-nu's. I'm hoping we can maintain the bedtime only thing for a couple of weeks and then get a visit from the fairy. I think I will be a bit sad for it to end but I'm ready.

Were any of your babies spitters? Maeve has some serious reflux and spits up all day long. I'm starting to worry a bit. I sent an email to my Dr today about it. I haven't had her on a scale since she was 12 days old but she's about 10 pounds by the holding her while I'm on the home scale method. Here's a picture to show that all the milk she doesn't spit up seems to be going to her cheeks and chin!


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## Thursday Girl

that is some baby cuteness. My first was a spitter and later she was a puker. but she was my chubbiest baby.

Mal- that was a funny story, I was chuckling about it on the way to the midwifes.

I brought up the idea of the weaning fairy and explained it then asked if she wanted to fairy to come, she very resolutely said no, even after I once again reminded her of the presents. I only let her nurse once a day as it drives me insane to nurse her usually.

My midwife said it feels like just a fibrous growth relating to pregnancy. to keep an eye on it but she thinks it's fine/ Yay!! then we hung out for a couple hours, I have totally missed her. everyone has been too busy to hang out. but the girls get along so famously (kind of like us) that we need to make sure to get together more.

Starling E reading to H is SO CUTE!


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## Mal85

We nicknamed Owyn the Spit-Up Queen when she was an infant. It seemed like at least half of what she ate always came back up. No one was safe holding her without a burp rag (prefolds are great for that!). She did it constantly until she was about 8 or 9 months old. I read somewhere that some sphincter doesn't fully close until around 9 months old. Some babies just have a stronger gag reflex than others. Owyn stopped puking everywhere right on track with that. Greta spits up some too. Not all the time like Owyn did, but when she does it's huge and disgusting! I had to change my shirt twice in the middle of the night last night from her projectile spit up. As long as Maeve is gaining, I wouldn't worry about it. Just get used to smelling like sour milk!

Starling: Love E reading to her baby brother, Owyn does the same thing and it just melts my heart! Every time she holds Greta she has to have this same little book and "reads" it to her. I keep meaning to get some video of it it's so adorable!


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## Everrgreen

Mal - LOL! R discovered his not too long ago, luckily it was just a one time thing and he hasn't been reaching back there since.

Courtney - I'm glad your midwife was able to put your mind at ease! That's awesome that you have such a close relationship with her. I love midwives 

AK - So cute!! She looks like she's going to have some lovely red hair! No experience here with spit-up, sorry, R was an awesomely clean baby  I hope the weaning continues to go smoothly. I think we will be weaning soon too (well, within the next 3 months, so not *too* soon)

Cindy - Oh no! Poor M  Is that common for kids to be susceptible to croup and get it ongoing? I hope she feels better quickly!

As for your IVF - I'm excited for you! I think I would really prefer a singleton myself, but of course twins would be awesome too.

Starling - LOVE the pics!! So cute with E reading to H and his little smile  His hair is so dark!

Kate - I love your name choices! I think it will be Zane Archer though ;o)

Thanks for the skating tips everyone! My dad actually has some skating aids at his store that I may get if needed. I think I'm going to take him out and just work on standing on the ice and then move on to little marching steps. See how that goes. They actually have lessons here that start at age 2-3 (with a parent), but they are all through the weekday. It really annoys me that every single toddler program I can find is during the weekday. So kids with a stay at home parent are the only ones who can do all the extra fun stuff :/


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## Thursday Girl

Everr I have found that a rather large percentage of toddler classes happen during the week. The only exception really is my cities gym, dance, soccer, etc programs have stuff available for working parents. The city's activities are also cheaper.

Starling had to pop on because I had a dream last night that Hawksley and my little girl were playing. At first we were all sitting around a table but the little kids were getting antsy so I took them outside. He was a sweet boy although he was a bit nervous of doors. ...and my current in utero baby was a girl in the dream.(maybe i can now say she without feeling wrong, I have still been calling the baby it after not being able to say "she")


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## Everrgreen

All I have found on nights/weekends is swimming lessons. He is going to start that in January. There is this really fun program at the Zoo where you can take your preschooler and learn about one of the animals each week, the zoo staff will show you about caring for the animal and feeding them. It looks so cool. There are several days/times when you can go, but all are through the week









I think once he gets into the 3-4 age group there will be more options. Next summer I want to put him in soccer, I think that would be fun


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## starling&diesel

*Courtney* ... We'd love a play date! We actually love Florida (dp proposed in Key West) so it's not impossible!


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## Thursday Girl

That would be awesome Starling. I have met a few of the moms from my DDC with my almost 6 year old. They even organized a meet up once but I couldn't go. There is a group of us who still talk.

sucky about the lack of programs for kids with working parents : (

OMG, Junes is being so ANNOYING. she is climbing on EVERYTHING! she puts toys in weird spots. she took some lalaloopsy dolls and pout them in the OVEN! She is almost too much too handle. (but she is also cute and sweet, earlier in the day, just crazy around 7-8 and usually Hubs isn't home yet) speaking of lalaloopsy's, her sister wasn't sharing the dolls with her (they belong to the 2 older girls) so I took one we had tucked away for a certain upcoming holiday and gave it to her, and then they let her play, BUT the funny thing is what she calls them "ah-la Poopies" Now she has me accidentally saying it.


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## Everrgreen

I would love to meet all of you in real life - how awesome would that be??

Courtney - Oh R has nights where he drives me insane. I hope your night got better!

AFM: I got a call from the daycare today that R had spiked a fever. I was already on the bus home so was able to be there in about 45 minutes. His teacher told me had a pee accident when he woke up from his nap (he never has accidents) and he has been having urgent and big pees all afternoon. When I got him home he started bawling about his head hurting but he refused to take any medicine. And then he threw up (not much in his tummy though, he wouldn't eat at daycare). Poor baby. He has now fallen asleep beside me so hopefully he will get some rest and feel better soon. And I really hope I don't get sick too


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## Mal85

Oh a meet-up would be so much fun. I've always thought it would be so neat if our little ones could meet. We came together because of them and I feel like they should know each other too! I'm in the boring midwest though, so I'm not sure anyone would be in my neck of the woods.

Everr: Poor R, I hope he feels better soon!

I'm going to venture out this weekend and hit the local craft fair. We get to have it, yay! The football team did win, but they ended up getting an away game this weekend. I was so excited they didn't cancel the fair!

Wanted to share Greta's newborn pictures. We had them taken yesterday and I'm in love with all of them! I have to pick just one or two poses though for her birth announcements. She's getting more newborn pics taken tomorrow. My sister's friend just started up a business and needs a newborn girl for her portfolio, so she asked to do a free shoot with Greta. Of course I agreed! My sister is going to buy us the cd with all the pics on it as Greta's Christmas present. I'm pretty excited to get those. I'm hoping she'll get a shot of both girls together in their Christmas dresses to put on our Christmas cards this year.

Anyway, here's the link: http://web.me.com/mainstreet3/Site_209/Greta_Holtcamp.html


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## Thursday Girl

poor R!! hope he feels better quickly!

love the shots of Greta, she is pretty damn cute!


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## Vegan Princess

Oh Mal, those shots are too precious!! We didn't do any professional shots of M when she was new. I love newborn shoots so much. Definitely doing one with the next kid!!

Everr: I hope R is feeling better and that you stay clear of the bug. Poor guy -sounds like he has a lot going on in that little body.

I would LOVE to meet you ladies!  That would be beyond cool.

AFM: I visited one of the preschools I was considering for January again. This is a very small, unlicensed co-op. I like a lot of things about it but they take the kids on field trips, in parents cars, without asking parents before hand. Like today, they only had 6 kids so they were going to try to go somewhere or the parent helper left to go buy snacks and was going to bring 2 kids along. I guess the people who send their kids are just ok with that stuff happening. I am not ok with that at all. If I wanted my kid to run errands to buy snacks, I'd keep her home. And I do not want her going in anyone's car! I am going to email the teacher to ask about it but I think that is a deciding factor to just wait until next fall.

I had my last fertility consult today. I had a phone consult yesterday with a clinic 2 hours away and saw my own doc today. They both agreed on the exact same drug protocol - so that is good. The further one is 3k cheaper but I'd have to pay extra to do ultrasounds and blood tests here and at $400 a pop, that could eat up the difference. So I'll get all the final financial details tomorrow and make up my mind. I think I'd start meds around new years, egg retreival and transfer middle of January and hopefully a + pregnancy test for Makenna's birthday. Just like Starling got on E's!! The good news is, I get to do oral meds for half the stimming and then injectibles for the 2nd half - instead of injectibles the whole time. So the meds will be cheaper and I have to give myself about 7 fewer shots! He put my odds of success being very conservative at 25-30% but said it could be closer to 40-50% (which is the normal chance of success for someone my age). So we'll see! Now if only I could get DH to help decide on a donor in case we need donor egg. We need to pick one now to be able to cycle in march or april if this IVF doesn't work. He thinks we'll be dooming ourself though by picking a donor now. UGH.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Oooh, *Cindy* ... I got SHIVERS reading your post about doing the embryo transfer. I so want you to get that BFP on M's birthday. What a magical thing that would be! It was one of my favourite days ever when I got that BFP on E's birthday. Everything crossed for you and all the fairy godmother dust I can muster for you:









*Mal* ... What gorgeous shots of Greta the Sweet! How on earth do you pick just one??? We meant to do a nakey baby bum shot of E with my partner holding her with her fully tattoed arms. We never got around to it, but we're going to do it this time for sure! Thanks for reminding me!

*Ever* ... Poor little hockey star! I hope he feels much better soon and I hope you don't catch any of it!


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## Everrgreen

Thanks for the well-wishes for R! He is much better this morning. He still feels hot but he slept all night and woke up ready to go. We are just hanging out in bed now but we may venture outside soon - we got our first snow last night!!! I LOVE the first snow, so exciting 

Mal - R and I just went through your pics (which are so sweet!) R said "Oh look at the cute baby! I love that baby. We can go to the store and buy that baby." Lol! I think my favourite is 4006 

Cindy - Hmm, yeah I wouldn't be ok with that either.. R's daycare doesn't do field trips, but they have a large property an so they do little nature walks. At first I thought I liked the idea of field trips (another daycare had them) but I prefer it this way. We can do our field trips around town just the 2 of us!

And I'm also sending you all the fertility vibes I've got! I really think you'll be getting your BFP for M's birthday!

Starling - Oh I love little nakey bum pics! You'll have to share when you get it done! I didn't do pro pics when R was born. I sort of wish I had some, oh well!


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy totally weird about random trips in cars. at my older girls school they go on field trips and parents drive (I usually drive) the kids, but once they get older then they go on the small school bus. Also we know about the trips in advance although we fill out a form at the start of the year with blanket permission for all the field trips. but they wouldn't just take a run to the grocery store, that's freaking weird and i would NOT be okay with it.

glad R is feeling better this morning.

starling we got the picture of Junes in Hubs arms, it was super cute, i hated the one with the baby toes that had our wedding rings on them though. it seemed morbid for some reason.


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## AKislandgirl

I so want to meet you guys in real life! I vote for someplace warm and tropical! If I ever win the lottery I'll buy us all tickets!

Sure glad to hear R is feeling better!

Mal, those pictures of Greta are amazing! Makes me wish I had done newborn pictures with my girls. Maybe its not too late. Maeve is 6 weeks old today!

Cindy, I'm getting so excited for you! I got my BFP just 3 days before Fiona's birthday!

I had my 6 week appt today. She asked me if I wanted to do anything about birth control. I told her no but in the back of my head I have to wonder if my body will start ovulating on its own at some point. I'm not sure if we want to have another baby or not. I actually really see myself having 3 kids but this has been a really difficult transition for DH and I so I don't know for sure. I do think that if we decide to have another then I'd like Maeve to be a bit older then Fiona is now. Of course, she will be her own person and maybe not so intense and I'll rethink that. I don't know. Anyway- I declined birth control because I don't thing I need it and if by some miracle my body decides to ovulate and we get pregnant on our own then so be it. I didn't even get my period back until Fiona was 15 months old...


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## Vegan Princess

I got some great news! I found out the clinic 2 hrs away has a different pricing structure for what they call minimal stimulation ivf - and that is what I'm doing. So the IVF will only cost 7k there! Meds will be 2k. I'm still waiting for the final numbers from my clinic here but I don't think they discount for this protocol so I still think it will be 11,500 or 12,500 plus meds. So I guess my mind is made up to go to the clinic 2 hrs away. And I am so relieved bc I found a place to do my monitoring here that will let me bring Makenna. The idea of finding a sitter last minute for 7 in the morning was really stressing me out the most out of this whole process!! Not to mention it saves us the price of a sitter and DH won't have to rearrange his schedule to watch her (he usually leaves really early for work). So I am thrilled to find out this is going to cost 3-5k less than originally planned!

Sue: Knowing what I know now about myself, I doubt I'd ever take BC again either. Unless IVF yields us twins. Then I ain't takin no chances!

Cindy


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## justKate

Ever, glad R is on the mend! Did you say that you're going skating again this weekend? You should have someone take pictures!

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess*
> 
> AFM: I visited one of the preschools I was considering for January again. This is a very small, unlicensed co-op. I like a lot of things about it but they take the kids on field trips, in parents cars, without asking parents before hand. Like today, they only had 6 kids so they were going to try to go somewhere or the parent helper left to go buy snacks and was going to bring 2 kids along. I guess the people who send their kids are just ok with that stuff happening. I am not ok with that at all. If I wanted my kid to run errands to buy snacks, I'd keep her home. And I do not want her going in anyone's car! I am going to email the teacher to ask about it but I think that is a deciding factor to just wait until next fall.
> 
> Now if only I could get DH to help decide on a donor in case we need donor egg. We need to pick one now to be able to cycle in march or april if this IVF doesn't work. He thinks we'll be dooming ourself though by picking a donor now. UGH.


HECK NO I would not be okay with that. And without any notice? I need to be able to find my baby at all times. Most of the daycares/pre-schools I've looked at don't take kids on field trips in cars until they're like four. I'm not even sure I'll be okay with that, because I'm a crazy person. But I'm okay with that. As for picking a donor, I say that if you pick one you won't need her! The more work I put in to things the less relevant they become, it seems.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl*
> 
> I had my 6 week appt today. She asked me if I wanted to do anything about birth control. I told her no but in the back of my head I have to wonder if my body will start ovulating on its own at some point. I'm not sure if we want to have another baby or not. I actually really see myself having 3 kids but this has been a really difficult transition for DH and I so I don't know for sure. I do think that if we decide to have another then I'd like Maeve to be a bit older then Fiona is now. Of course, she will be her own person and maybe not so intense and I'll rethink that. I don't know. Anyway- I declined birth control because I don't thing I need it and if by some miracle my body decides to ovulate and we get pregnant on our own then so be it. I didn't even get my period back until Fiona was 15 months old...


Meh, I wouldn't worry about it either. LAM for six months, then think about FAM. Apparently I'm more fertile than I thought and it worked fine for me. I don't plan on doing anything after this baby--FAM once she's six months old, and then if DH thinks he's done he can get a V.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess*
> 
> I got some great news! I found out the clinic 2 hrs away has a different pricing structure for what they call minimal stimulation ivf - and that is what I'm doing. So the IVF will only cost 7k there! Meds will be 2k. I'm still waiting for the final numbers from my clinic here but I don't think they discount for this protocol so I still think it will be 11,500 or 12,500 plus meds. So I guess my mind is made up to go to the clinic 2 hrs away. And I am so relieved bc I found a place to do my monitoring here that will let me bring Makenna. The idea of finding a sitter last minute for 7 in the morning was really stressing me out the most out of this whole process!! Not to mention it saves us the price of a sitter and DH won't have to rearrange his schedule to watch her (he usually leaves really early for work). So I am thrilled to find out this is going to cost 3-5k less than originally planned!


Yay!! Gosh that's still a ton of money, but if its the same procedure...well, it sounds like a good arrangement, especially since you can take M with you.


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - That's awesome! I'm glad things are working out better than expected - now we just need that BFP! Woohoo!

AK - You still have time to do newborn pics! Although you've taken some great ones yourself, I love the one you have as your profile pic, so cute!

And I will soo totally save up for a trip to meet you guys. Some place warm sounds great! Courtney we can visit you in Florida!!

So I spoke too soon about R.. He hasn't been vomiting but he has had a fever all day and has been lethargic, not eating much, and sleeping most of the day  He's sleeping now probably for the night. Oh I just realized it's only 5:30.. Hmm, he may be up very early tomorrow :/ But as long as he's better I'll be happy!


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## Everrgreen

Me again - my laptop and I are having a lovely Friday night together (the joys of single motherhood!) 

Anyway, so I've had some issues with R come up the last couple weeks. He has said/done a couple of sort of disturbing things and when I ask about it he says he learned it from movies at daycare. I'm not sure when/why they would even be watching movies so that is one concern. But especially the content of the movies - the first thing he started doing was talking about killing (something about the King killing his sister and they die - wtf?) And he has also said something about me dying which I don't really like (he doesn't say it in a worried way, it's more aggressive or maybe just indifferent..) The second thing he did just this past week, he picked up one of my bobby pins, held it between his two fingers and pretended to smoke! And said "mommy I'm smoking!" I totally kept cool and made it seem like such a boring thing to be doing while also casually asked where he learned that - again the answer was from a movie at daycare. I am obviously going to ask about this on Monday - the smoking thing just happened Wednesday evening and my mom did the drop off Thursday and then R was sick at pick up so there wasn't time to ask. The King killing his sister and everyone dying thing has been a couple weeks now and I was procrastinating on asking about it.. But now with the smoking thing I will definitely be seeking some answers. I just don't get it though because this is a christian daycare, very professionally run, his teachers are awesome - so loving and friendly. I don't know why they would be watching movies (I've seen the schedules - there is no movie time!) and movies with this type of content?? Something's not right. So yeah, I've been stressing about this.. I will have to wait til Monday though :/


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## Vegan Princess

Whoah Everr! I would flip out if M pretended to smoke! Has he been exposed to people smoking while you guys are out or around a relative? Perhaps this stuff isn't actually from movies. Maybe he has seen that out and is imitating it? I recall using a plastic thing that peeled up off our car seat to pretend to smoke - it is a clear memory. I was under five though. And no one was watching me. I just thought it was cool. No idea where I got it from now - but smoking was more common back then. Could he have learned the kill thing from another child at daycare? I would be super pissed if they were showing movies! Not to mention movies with that sort of content. It almost seems too much to believe that they would show movies like that to little ones - that is why I question where else he could have learned that?

I officially declined the preschools that had openings for January. I'll find out in February if we get the one we want, if not, I know I will definitely get a spot at another one. I guess I need to check out some non co-op options too. Co-op is about $300/mo for 3 days. But you need to be in the classroom 2-3 days/mo. If we indeed have another baby next fall, the price of a sitter will add up to just paying for a school that doesn't require me to be there. I'm torn though bc I do enjoy being there.

I'm so excited. We are going wine tasting tomorrow in Napa. My friend lives in Sonoma. She has 2 little ones (9 mos and 27 months). Her sitter is going to watch her kids and M while the adults go tasting. I haven't been tasting with DH without a child in years (and we only went once with M). We're going to stay overnight at my friend's and bbq after we get home. Unfortunately I got M's cold today.

Cindy


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## justKate

Cindy, yuck about the cold. Hopefully it passes quickly.

Ever, I would be PISSED about the smoking. Are there maybe teachers smoking outside somewhere on break where they can be seen through a window or something? As for the killing thing, that bugs me even more. Do you think they could be watching bible stories with killing in them? That would make it a little more acceptable because it can be framed in a historical context, but geez. It sounds like they need to be a little more attentive to what's going on. They do put on videos sometimes at Aubs' daycare, and it annoys me, but I do understand that it helps them get everyone on and off the potty quickly before lunch. The only things I've seen them watch are Max & Ruby (annoying), LeapFrog videos (I've never watched them, but Aubs says they're about the froggies helping other froggies), and Dora (again, annoying). Hopefully there's a simple explanation for it.


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## Everrgreen

Yeah I'm sure there's a reasonable explanation, I hope.. It's still really weird and concerning. I can't think of a bible story involving a King killing his sister (or a children's movie with that in it either). It could have been a game another kid came up with (the age group is up to 3.5, so there are older kids). And the smoking it's possible he's seen someone doing it, but he's seen people smoking before and never imitated it. And he knew it was called 'smoking' and held the bobby pin 'properly' between his two fingers.. I'm not impressed no matter how he learned it, even if it was from another kid I feel the teachers should be monitoring what types of make-believe the kids are doing! I will ask on Monday though. And he hasn't done it again since (although he's been sick the last 2 days, so..)

Anyway, R is much better this morning (for real this time). He was restless last night and had another pee accident and had a little gag episode (no vomit though). But in the morning his fever was gone and he's had something to eat and drink and seems almost back to normal. So that's good. I think it may have been a bladder infection just because of all the pee accidents.

Cindy - Enjoy your wine tasting day!


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## justKate

Cindy, hope you've had a great day today.

Ever, agreed, regardless, it is not acceptable.

I'm seriously ready to strangle my child today. She's just been so BAD. And of course I would never say that to her, or in front of her, but geez. Its like she doesn't hear anything I say. I know I'm whining about normal two/three year old stuff, but its really frustrating to me. And I haven't found any sort of discipline that works. Last night I put her to sleep at 6:00, and she didn't care. She just laid there until her usual bed time and then went to sleep. Not that sleep should be "punishment" but I couldn't take it any more and DH wasn't home.

So for example, today we were going to the post office and the fabric store. We had a snack, got water to take, and peed before we left. The entire way there she stretches and twists the seatbelts in the back, because she can reach two of them since she's still RFing. I'm afraid she's going to wrap herself up in them and get hurt. Or strangled or whatever, and I haven't figured out how to secure them out of her reach. And I'm asking her to stop, asking her to sing, clap, do whatever with me, and she just. won't. stop.

"My playing with the straps, Mommy!!"

"Let's do something different. Can you do ___ with your fingers?"

"No."

"How about ___? Let's count the ____."

"My not listening, Mommy."

"I think we need to be quiet for a little while. Let's listen to music."

"No! You be quiet!"

Then we get to the post office. No line, I have 2 boxes to ship. She will not stop touching things. Will not hold my hand. If I try to hold her, she flips backwards out of my arms. She honks my nose and blows raspberries on my face. Hits the counter with both hands. Picks stuff off the floor and puts it in her mouth as soon as I put her down. Tries to run out of the door when someone opens it. And this is all in less than 10 minutes--it took longer because the woman misheard me, and both were shipping internationally, just not the same way. I did the customs forms in advance, trying to be prepared.

So we get back in the car and she's at the straps again. I turn the radio on and ignore her. We get to the fabric store and I put her in the stroller, give her the cup of water, and promise a snack. She won't keep her feet off of the wheels so that I can push. Or her hands off of anything she can reach. Kicking the merchandise, pulling things on the floor. I don't want to be that mom that yells at her kid, especially in public, but she just won't stop. And its the same at home for the last week. I don't get it.

Sorry for the rant, I just don't know what to do with her. And she's only like this with me.


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## Thursday Girl

haha Kate. I laugh because that was Junes at the post office when I was shipping holiday helper stuff. I wanted to strangle MYSELF! She also throws stuff on the floor and when i tell her to pick it up she says "mommy do!" and when i ask her to be quiet she covers my mouth with her hand. super annoying!

Everr, let us know what happens when you talk to them. When Jewel was in daycare they let them watch movies in the morning before all the kids and teachers got there. I didn't like it. I had them keep her in the infant room for as long as I could, then I had to talk to them because they were watching the incredibles which is a pg movie and opens with killing and bombs. great movie, just not for a toddler.

Cindy- awesome about the cheaper ivf!

Junes was snoring last night and has a wicked cough but only in the morning.


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## Everrgreen

Kate - oh my gosh, R has moments like that. Usually just if he's tired or if I'm pushing my luck with how many stops we make  Although I will say he is mostly well behaved (don't hate me). I am pretty strict about stuff. The carseat is a tricky one, honestly for R I would probably just tell him that it's not safe to do that and it scares me. He responds really well to me explaining why. The post office - again, I would explain that I have something very important to do. And if he was in a mood I would give him a snack/toy/my wallet to distract him. For shopping with a stroller or shopping cart he doesn't get a lot of chances - either stay with me and listen or you get strapped into the stroller/cart. Those are his options. I do try and stay patient with him and let him touch stuff as long as it's not breakable and he puts it back when I ask. I try and stay consistent so he knows what I expect and that I mean it. But I have also totally been the mom who's carried him out of the store screaming and crying, which is always fun :/

Anyway, I'm not sure if any of that will help you. Toddlers are exhausting, mostly I just try and survive with the least amount of conflict possible


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## Thursday Girl

Kate- last night I had a dream that you moved in across the street from me. It was so exciting!!


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## justKate

That's funny! Although its probably not outside the realm of possibilities. We're trying to get back to FL next time we move, and while Key West would be my first pick, Tampa/St. Pete/Clearwater would be great too! Miami is more realistic, but I don't love it as much.


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## starling&diesel

I vote for a get together in Key West! What FUN!


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## Mal85

DH would be all over a trip to Key West! He's been trying to get me to go there for years. Do planes land in Key West? Because I can't take that bridge. I have a crippling fear of bridges. If you can get me there without having to drive over a huge bridge, I'm in!


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## Everrgreen

Key West sounds nice - I'm in 

R is still sick  He now is really congested and has been so tired all day. He also keeps saying his stomach hurts - not sick but hurts. And he is still a bit warm. He's supposed to go back to daycare tomorrow but my mom is off so I may have to get her to keep him. Right now he's asleep beside me and sounds like a chainsaw, it's awful.. (and really annoying.. he was like this last night too and it took forever to fall asleep!)

I only have 2 weeks left of class! Crazy! Then I just have my 5 final exams, the last one is Dec 15 and then I'm off for 3.5 weeks! Woohoo!


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## Thursday Girl

I totally vote Tampa, seminole heights is a really sweet neighborhood. Tampa people love it.

i'm down with a meet up but you have to wait until we have more money. i went to key west once, it was nice. i'd love to swim there again and have the little fishies nibble my toes.

poor R, it's so sad when they are sick.

and ya
y on just 2`weeks before your break


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## AKislandgirl

Bummer that R isn't completely better. Hopefully with one more day of rest he'll be over it.

Fiona had a fever on Friday of 103. Se didn't want to eat and was lethargic but had no other symptoms. She seemed better the next day. Kid bugs are weird!

She is starting to get rashy/eczema on her face again. Nothing like when she was a baby and she was still eating gluten. Now its just little persistent patches. She also pretty much always has dark circles under her eyes. She may be reacting to the gluten in my diet because I'm no longer gluten free but she nurses for no more then 4-5 minutes a day. We feel like something is up and we are going to see about getting her in for allergy testing when we take her for her 3 year well child visit. Of course this means we will have to take her to Anchorage... grr. But my gut tells me something just isn't right. I want to rule out other allergies before looking further into Celiacs. Starling, I should chat with you a bit more about that... I sort of have this suspicion that that may be what is going on. Sigh.

She's been acting a bit like a crazy person lately so DH suggested we hold off on weaning until we get through the holidays- ore at least revisit in a couple of weeks. For now, I'm sticking with just the first thing in the AM and right before sleep. I did tell her the weaning fairy would be coming soon and explained that she would say bye bye to nu-nu but that she would get a present from the fairy. Then a package arrived for DH. His birthday is coming up and I ordered him slippers. I decided to give them to him early because his old ones were shot. I pulled Fiona into the room to help me wrap them. She got all excited! "A present for Papa! From the weaning fairy?!" LOL!

*Erin*, are you back?! We miss you!


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## Everrgreen

Well R is still majorly congested and snoring loudly again tonight. AND, I'm pretty sure he has pink eye. So that's great! We'll see how he is in the morning. I don't have class tomorrow so I can keep him home (although it would be nice to study for my finals..) My poor boy just isn't getting a break!

AK - it does sound like she might have an allergy, hopefully you can get some answers and get her better! Ex's family has bad seasonal allergies and I keep hoping he doesn't get that. Luckily no food allergies so far!


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## justKate

Not much time to chat--trying to clean before family arrives tomorrow.

Wanted to share that we had the u/s this morning and babe is very clearly a GIRL!







I'm relieved on a lot of levels. Will be back later....


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## Everrgreen

Kate - YAY! Congratulations!! Well the boys around here are STILL outnumbered  Oh well!


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## AKislandgirl

Another girl! Congratulations Kate! So excited for you. The boys really are outnumbered aren't they?!

We are having a stay at home day today because it is 6 degrees. With wind chills of -20! I made a track on the car with painters tape for Fiona's cars. She is loving it. We'll also prep a bunch of food for Thanksgiving and pretend to clean the house. I say pretend because as soon as I turn around its messy again- oh well!


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## Thursday Girl

Everr, squirt breastmilk in his eye, clears up pink eye amazingly fast. (If I am remembering correctly you are still nursing). I so hope he gets better quickly.

Kate- YAY for another girl!! they are so much fun!

great idea about the car track. I am also pretending to clean but it is not cold here, it is in the 80's in the house and i am SO HOT!! I so want to go through the girls room and get rid of stuff but i know that won't happen today. My girls are playing with the toy kitchen DH finally dug out of the shed. He made it years ago for them for Christmas. It needs to be repainted though and I need to decide how to paint it, plus i need to talk him into finally adding a faucet for the sink. lol. they are so pleased to have it out. Junie doesn't really remember it, but has been using the real oven which is way unsafe...hence the toy kitchen coming back out. I dug some of the food out, but i am not sure where the rest is. I need to find it, plus I think i will make them some for christmas.


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: Yay!!! How exciting!!!  Remind me of your girl name choices?

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Courtney - My boobs don't squirt :/ Other than maybe the first couple months I've never seen any milk spray out. I actually haven't even seen milk at all in a while, well, except when R threw up last week after nursing.. It looked milk-ish. I've always been a bit jealous of all the breastfeeding stories of accidentally squirting someone or purposefully squirting someone.. lol!

I did send R to daycare this am. His eye is pink but not goopy. If he is still congested and miserable tomorrow then I will keep him home. I'm only supposed to keep him home 3 days a month though or else I have to pay for his missed day (instead of the subsidy paying it).

We are having weather hovering around freezing here. Our snow from Friday all melted (there was only a little). I can't wait for more! We need a nice big snowfall 

And while you ladies are pretending to clean - I am pretending to study for my finals


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## Everrgreen

Oh, I forgot to update after talking to R's teachers about the smoking/killing/dying stuff. They said the kids have only watched one movie since R started and it was Dora. They have no idea where he got that stuff from. And they said they do try and keep an eye on the make believe play (for example they don't allow any gun play). Anyway, they said they would keep an eye out especially on the playground outside where there is a larger group of kids. So no real answers but at least I've brought it to their attention. I guess exposure to inappropriate stuff is just part of life..


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## Thursday Girl

everr even when you attempt to hand express?


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## Everrgreen

Nope, can't hand express either! I had a manual pump but even then it would just dribble out..


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## Mal85

Kate: Yay for another girl!! Congrats!

Everr: Poor R, he's just having a rough week, huh? I meant to comment on the smoking a while back, but must have forgotten. I have seen Owyn occasionally pretend to smoke too. We do have some friends who smoke and DH occasionally enjoys a cigar. None of them ever smoke indoors, but we spent a lot of time outside over the summer having bbq's and such, so I know she saw people doing it. I just tried not to make a big deal out of it. I figure if I freak out about it in front of her, it's just going to be more appealing. I have occasionally commented on smoking being yucky when someone lights up a cigarette around her. And our friends, even though some of them do smoke, are cool about it too. They agree with me and tell her it is really yucky. Like you said, this kind of exposure is just a part of life. She certainly won't go her whole like without seeing someone smoke and I won't pretend I can keep her from seeing it.

I made my first big outing today with both kids. We made a quick trip to the shopping mall to get a few outfits for Greta. I forgot how quickly babies go through their clothes in the first year of life, especially when they get in between sizes, such a pain when we don't have clothes that fit! It actually went very well. Greta slept through the whole trip.

I finally found some time last night to go back through some of Owyn's newborn pics. It amazes me how different they look from each other!

Here's Owyn just after birth:



And here's Greta just after birth:



Are they really sisters?!

And one more from Greta's most recent photo shoot:


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## mckittre

I'm back! Our internet is still out at home, so I'll be a bit sporadic until I get it fixed. It was an amazing expedition, and I'll say more (and put pics) later.

I cannot possibly catch up with all the posts, but I do want to give a big welcome to Hawksley, Greta, and Maeve!


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## Vegan Princess

Erin: Welcome back! I'm dying to hear your amazing tales! I hope everyone enjoyed the trip.

UGH. I cannot deal with this no napping business. And she absolutely will not do quiet time! So basically she's a melted down mess for the 2nd half of the day, every day. I forced her to stay in bed with me for a while today bc she was a disaster after preschool. She wouldn't sleep but she did calm down a bit. I just don't even know how to handle it anymore. She was doing fine without a nap but lately not so much. Maybe she's growing more or something.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Welcome home, *Erin*! Can't wait to hear more about your amazing adventure!

*Kate* ... Congratulations on a healthy ultrasound and another little girl! Wonderful news!

*Mal* ... They look so different! My brother and I look like kids from two totally opposite family trees ... no one could ever guess that we're fully related. So far, my two kids are very much alike. Wonder if that's because they're from the same IVF batch? Out of the four kids, three look a lot a like. Interesting ...

*Cindy* ... I'm thinking about naps a lot lately. It takes E about half and hour to settle down and go to sleep, and then she sleeps for 45 mins to an hour. I'm just not sure that it's worth it any more. And I don't want to be managing naps for both littles once H starts settling into that schedule of two a day. Remember that? So he'd be mid morning nap, she'd be after lunch nap, then he'd be late afternoon nap. Doesn't sound fun. But I worry about the meltdowns as we head into the later part of the day. Your post scares me!


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## Thursday Girl

Erin welcome back!!!! I have been following you on facebook, but can't wait for you to tell us more!

Mal, wow they do look a lot different. that's pretty funny. I have a friend who has 3 kids and they all look pretty different. They are both super cute though! and yeah for succsesful outings, that first one is always daunting.

Naps- Junes just sometimes takes them. Today she took one curled up next to me while watching a movie. usually if she has one she falls alseep while we are in the car. then i just sit on the front porch and read while she naps in the car, but obviously that is something weather permitting. I am amazed she still naps my other girls gave it up around 1 year old. so naps are QUITE new to me.

I have a terrible headache, it's been here all day. sucky. I have a little girl coming over otnight for me to watch and Hubs called and said he'll be late. Amazingly I wasn't pissed. I always get pissed but the truth is it's every night and it's stupid to hope that he will be home at a normal time aka 5-6, it's always 7:30-8:30. Poor man though his parents (mom, step dad) are being a-holes. We are going to Ga for thanksgiving to be with my sisters boyfriends family. They are mad he won't be working Friday and keep trying to schedule jobs for him (they own a company together, each owns 1/3. he does all the work they financially back it.) Friday. I told them that if they insist on being crazy buttheads then he needs to stop working with them and get a real job. which i would like anyways so we could have a consistant paycheck and he could work normal hours...and hopefully we wouldn't always be either broke wondering how to pay bills or when he finally does have work trying to play catch up. PLUS his parents are batshit crazy and I want to seperate from them as much as possible. they use the connections to control and it annoys the crap out of me. okay, rant over.


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## justKate

Erin, so glad you're back. Can't wait to hear all about it.

Starling, my brother and I are like that too. We used to get the "how long have you two been dating" thing a lot when we were out in public together. Although I find the older we get, the more we look alike.

Naps--I would lose my mind without them. Aubs is rubbing-her-eyes tired by 11 a.m., and naps for at least an hour and a half after lunch. Today they had a Thanksgiving party at pre-school, and she slept from 1:15 until 3:50. I have no idea what will happen when new baby arrives.

Courtney, that really sucks about DH, and the headache, and the in-laws. Thank god mine are on the other side of the country. DH still has a really juvenile relationship with them and I would lose my s^!t a lot more often if we really had to deal with them.

Ever, I wouldn't have been thrilled with that response either, but I guess that's really all they can do. I don't know that Aubs recognizes smoking. She's not that observant and no one that we're around regularly smokes. Maybe just a "we don't do that" would be enough to deter him? Yay for finals being so near! The end of the year is so close already, I feel like it will be here any minute.

Mal, it is amazing how different they look. I love to see baby pics! And I love Greta's newborn pics. I want to find someone to take some for us next time around.

Starling/Mal/Sue, are you all feeling mostly healed?

Cindy, names, so far--Mallory, Sydney, or Marion. Jean for a middle name. I'm not completely in love with any of them yet... I like Cora (but its my childless cousin-in-law's baby name).... Norah, and tons of others that DH vetoes because they're "too weird" or remind him of someone or whatever. I'm very open to suggestions! I probably need to raid the name threads in other DDCs for more ideas.

I talked to a potential doula on the phone today. She was really informative, but I don't know if we really clicked. I could sort of tell that she had one idea of who I was as we were talking, and then the more we talked she sort of realized that I'm not stupid, that my last birth truly was awful, and that I've done my research. I think she was unsure, too. She gave me some names...one is a midwife/doula that lives nearby and is here on MDC occasionally, so I emailed her. We'll see, maybe she's a better fit.


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## Thursday Girl

I raided some other ddc's name threads.


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## Vegan Princess

Haha Starling - if E were to act like M has been acting, you should be scared. LOL. It's awful - constant demanding and shouting of "NO" and wanting exact wierd things or she throws herself on the floor. I really do wonder if something else is up bc this is typically not her personality at all. But it's been going on for a while lately. And she actually does ask to go to bed at 6:30 sometimes (normal bedtime is 8). So I do know she is just exhausted. I just wish I could at least figure out how to get her to do quiet time - especially since she's not going to be going to preschool anymore and I won't be getting ANY breaks. But right now we just end up watching way more tv than I'm comfortable with - bc I can't figure out what else to do with her when evening rolls around and she doesn't want to do anything fun or creative anymore.

Cindy


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## justKate

Courtney, my best friend has 2 black Ergos, and I don't think she likes them. If I can get her to give me one (or sell it to me for cheap), I'll give you mine--its khaki (just don't tell DH). I used it a ton but its still in good shape--I'm just tired of the color. Kind of like wearing the same shirt for 2 years. I want to have some stars or something embroidered on black, I think it'd be pretty. Or if I can get someone to buy me the new Ergo Sport.... She also has the infant inserts, but she says they're really warm. I'm going to borrow one of hers, but I think a loose swaddle with froggy legs would work fine too, until the babe is old enough to straddle you.


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## Thursday Girl

Oh Kate that would be awesome, thanks.

so Juniper woke up last night screaming and grabbing at her belly and her crotch. I kept asking her what was wrong and she wouldn't tell me, so i started asking if his hurts or that hurts. I checked her vulva and butt, they were a little red but nothing that would cause that kind of screaming. Finally we got an answer when I asked if her butt hurt. she said yes. She uses the potty entirely herself, i just walk her into the bathroom then she has me leave, but usually (not always) she has me wipe her butt if she poops and I wasn't called to wipe her butt yesterday so maybe she is constipated?? I just held her and she cried and finally I asked if she wanted to take a hot shower with mommy. (this always calmed her when she was little and I always like a hot shower when i feel crappy) so I just held her in the water and she cuddled deep into me. (which i admit was nice she hasn't done that in over a year) then fell asleep in my arms but also holding her crotch. very weird.


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## Everrgreen

Courtney - Oh no  It does sound like she may be constipated.. I hope she is feeling better this morning!

I hope things can get worked out with your inlaws, it sounds like a very difficult and frustrating position.

Cindy - R is like that too, he naps at daycare, but when he's home with me he often won't nap until close to 4pm! And then of course he'll be up late. But if I try and just keep him up he's so miserable. Actually even when he has a good nap at daycare (12:30-2:30) he will be full of energy until 9 or even 10pm at night! But I would rather have him up late and not cranky.

Kate - I love your name choices! My girls names I was considering for R were Adeline (Addie), Elaina, and Helene.

Good luck with your doula search! I was a doula for my friend and I loved it - if I had the ability to be on-call I would totally love to be a doula. I didn't have one with R but if I have another baby I definitely will get one!

Mal - They do look so different! Both cute though of course  I don't have any bio siblings but growing up I looked a lot like 2 of my cousins, I always loved that!

R is feeling much better this morning! Still more cranky than usual but he didn't snore last night so that made me less-cranky  He's off at daycare now (although he was not happy about going..) and now I need to really get some studying done!


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## AKislandgirl

OMG about the naps! Fiona has been so hard to put down for a nap and has been skipping them too. She is a hot mess by the afternoon. Wining, crying, screaming... she won't let DH near her and just wants me to hold her. Sometimes she falls asleep on the floor while she is playing at 4:00. It sucks! I wish I had a way to get her down easily. She is also sleeping poorly at night. She wakes up crying- asks to nurse (which she hasn't done in 10 months!). I'm exhausted by it. Finally at some point last night DH put her in the big bed next to me and he slept in her bed. I know a lot of this could be because of the baby but something in my gut tells me something else is up. I just can't figure it out. After tomorrow's feast I'm going gluten free to see if that helps any. I'll wean her soon and be back to eating whatever soon enough.

I would define Fiona as a high needs toddler- she is extremely demanding! DH makes comments about doing things differnt with Maeve. I just say, imagine what she would be like if we didn't AP? She is who she is. My birthdayis on Friday. A friend offered to babysit both girls so we could go out to eat. He claims "most people would do it." A) I don't think "most" people would leave their 7 week old but my view may be scewed and B) I ddon't give a [email protected]@% what "most" people do. I don't do it! We are having a sitter come on Saturday for Fiona and going out to lunch but Maeve will obviously be coming with us.

Courtney- Is Juniper still complaining of pain? Hope she feels better today. Sounds awful.

I'm the youngest of 5- we all look different!


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## Thursday Girl

Juniper is not complaining although she had the stinkiest fart and still hasn't pooped. My mom is bringing me prunes.

I also would not leave a 7 week old, it turns out among my AP friends we are all on the same page, of my friends I knew before we all had kids (ahem the very mainstream parents) they have left even younger babies.

I am 1 of 5, 4 of us look very similiar. ! looks like our biological grandmother. we look like clones of my mother, my brother as he ages looks more like my father but used to be one who looked like my mom. My parents have been confused for brother and sister (the family tree actually meets at sir walter scott). My mom supposedly looks a lot like her biological father but we have never seen him. My husband and i have similiarites but don't look like siblings. he is a spitting image of his father who is a spitting image of his father. He has no biological siblings from his father, but he looks quite like on of his half biologic brothers whom his mom had. which is funny since Chris looks like his dad. My girls all look alike, but Josephine looks like Chris and the other 2 look like me. (kind of like how charlie sheen looks like martin sheen but emelio estevez doesn't look like martin sheen, but charlie and emilio look like each other) Yeah I hope that was all clear.


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## starling&diesel

nak

Courtney and Kate ... I got the infant insert this time and hated it! It's a total waste of money. Just put a rolled up receiving blanket under her butt and watch her head and you achieve the same thing.

I wouldn't leave a 7 week old either.

Hope Juniper is feeling better! And R too!


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## Vegan Princess

Yeah I wouldn't leave a newborn. One of my friends left her 6 week old over night with her mom!!! But she also left her daughter for 3 days when she was 3.5 mos old!!! Insanity. I have a hard enough time leaving my almost 3 yr old.

Anyone else playing candyland? We are playing it all day, everyday around here. LOL. Someone is obsessed with it. And it ain't me.

Courtney: I hope Juniper feels better! Tummy troubles suck.

Happy Thanksgiving to those of you here in the states. My MIL is coming tomorrow. I'm looking forward to letting her play a little candyland. LOL. We're doing a mellow dinner here tomorrow just us and MIL then doing a huge family dinner on Saturday.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

I totally should play candy land with her, what a great idea. The other girls were playing it by her age.

Junes seems to be feeling better today, she pooped a lot but none of it was hard like you'd think a constipated poop would be...and wow did it STINK! I think it was a really upset belly.

had a lot of fun with Hubs in the kitchen making food for tomorrow, it was a little sad though because the older girls aren't here.  I want them back. I know they are going to have so much fun though. Hubs and I both decided to let them go because that is what would make them happy.

Have a happy thanksgiving all my american mommy friends!!


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## justKate

Cindy, I meant to ask about board games! Glad you mentioned it. Aubs LOVES Memory (the cards that you match?) but we can only put down like 12 cards or she gets overwhelmed. And she'll only play twice before she starts being silly with it. I was wondering if there are any other games that she could play...I was thinking Hungry Hungry Hippos, but I don't really want all of those little balls laying around. I can't remember what you have to do with Candyland--is it like Life? My favorite was Mouse Trap, but we're definitely not there yet. Maybe Chutes and Ladders? I seriously can't remember what the games involve. Maybe Twister?

Starling, good to know the insert is no good. It looks kinda stupid anyway.

Sue, I would NEVER leave a 7 week old, for anything. Yeah, I sent Aubs to daycare at 14 weeks, but I didn't leave her for a minute when it wasn't necessary.

Courtney, Aubs gets like that if she doesn't poop like every third day. If the prunes don't work, try lots of sugary juice. Or just give her a glycerin suppository--at least then you'll have one potential problem ruled out! I took Aubs to the pediatrician a couple of weeks ago because she was peeing CONSTANTLY and saying that her vulva hurt. I was sure she had a UTI, but the doc said it was just irritation and to put cream on her vulva and butt. Doc said that irritation can cause increased urination, which irritates it more, etc. I don't know. It did resolve itself, but its hard when they can't quite communicate exactly what's wrong.

So for the potty-independent, how to you do wiping? Aubrey is ready to do it by herself, but she makes a HUGE mess with toilet paper, and wipes all caddywompus. At night she'll get up and go pee, and just pull up her pants without wiping, which isn't ideal. Is there something special you do, or is it just practice?


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: How did you get her night trained? I am just too afraid to make the leap since she's in our bed. I did let her go to bed in panties one night and sure enough, we were up in the middle of the night changing our sheet and her clothes. She didn't want to put her diaper on tonight and I told her that she can sleep in panties when she sleeps in her own bed. But that could be a while. Anyway, I still wipe Makenna. She likes to wipe pee and I let her do that if she wants, but not poop. We always use flushable wipes on poo - perhaps Aubrey would do a better job with those than TP?

Games. Candy land is just pick a card and it has a red square or 2 red squares or whatever color. Then they move their figurine to the next square of that color, etc. She likes to make up her own games with the candy cards but she will actually sit and play correctly for a very very long time (as long as I move her piece). We've done memory (though not too recently) and she doesn't quite get it. But I have a used dora version I got at a rummage sale and the pictures are too similar. I think she'd do better if they were more unique. She played an easy version of bingo at her cousin's house and did well. I've been meaning to get one. They even have ABC versions. I think chutes and ladders is age 3 - so they would do fine with that. We don't have it but DH mentioned wanting to get it. And as for marbles - I don't trust her with them yet. She does play with lots of little things and has never been big on putting things in her mouth. But my friend's daughter who was born 3 weeks before Makenna just ate a marble and my poor friend had to dig through her poop for TEN days until it came out! She loves loves loves this thing that the toy store that you can configure and drop marbles in and watch them come out different spaces - but it's meant for way older kids.

Courtney: I don't recall where your older girls went? I'm sorry you'll have a quiet thanksgiving without them. But maybe it will be nice to have some quiet. Next year's thanksgiving will be pretty crowded for you with an extra little girl at the table who will just recently be starting solid foods! 

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

chutes and ladders is harder, it says three but a later three. they have to be able to count up to 6 and every ten your person switches and goes another direction.

we have coco the rocking clown that Junes like a lot. it's a rocking clown and you balance little round pegs on his arms and legs. she also likes jenga but needs some help playing.

June sleeps in panties. she was night trained pretty much from the start of potty learning. she did have a night accident 2-3 times since she turned 2. but I dind't do that until she stayed dry in a diaper for awhile. once they stay dry at night then switch.

the girls went to georgia with my mom and sister to my sisters future in laws house. they live on a farm and the girls were looking forward to going but hubs and I couldn't afford the gas so they rode up with them. we talked to them this morning, they are having LOTS of fun.


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## starling&diesel

Great info about games ... I wasn't into them as a kid so it's all new to me. I've infected E with my obsession with books. All she wants to do is read or do crafts when we're at home. I'd love to add another activity.
Night pottying: E was dry at night from the day she was done with diapers but I was nervous to ditch the dipe because she sleeps with us. After a week of no accidents, we let her ditch the diaper.


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## Everrgreen

I've got a game for R for Christmas. I'm excited about getting into games with him! He does enjoy doing puzzles which is sort of like a game. Candyland would be a fun choice too!

RE night training - R stopped wearing diapers at night the same time he stopped wearing them at home (I noticed his diaper was often dry in the morning so thought I'd try it out). He did have a couple accidents in bed but mostly it went smoothly. Can you lay a couple towels under her where she sleeps? Also, when R had his accidents he got squirmy just before, if I'd been on the ball I could have woke him and taken him to potty. He still will get squirmy in the early morning if he has to pee. Usually when he wakes up he says he doesn't have to go.. Until I've got him sitting down with breakfast in front of him and that's when he always needs to go lol!

RE wiping - I wipe for R using flushable wipes (poops only obviously). Sometimes he wants to try but he needs thorough directions otherwise he just wipes the surface of his butt cheeks. Even with lots of direction I still need to do one quick wipe to get what he missed. Mostly he just lets me do it.

Kate - I am impressed that she goes on her own like that at night! R doesn't even go on his own during the day!! He still asks me to pull his pants up and down. I know he can do it but for some reason it's more fun when I do it. We need to work on that :/

AK - I agree with you! The first time I left Royce he was about 5 months I think.. And that was for 2 hours for dinner out. I think I went to the grocery store by myself when R was about 6 weeks old - I was gone for about 20 minutes and it felt so wrong lol!

AFM: R has started this really annoying fake giggle. I'm going to blame daycare again because that's where he spends his days and I'm just not sure where else he would have gotten it. It is soo irritating! He still has his real laugh but I hear the fake one way too much. It's weird.


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## Mal85

Games: I was just thinking about board games a few days ago! I have to take one of Owyn's Christmas gifts back... we bought her a Magnadoodle, but then a neighbor just gave her one as a "big sister" gift, so I need to take it back for something else. A couple of board games would be a good idea....

Wiping: Owyn does pretty well wiping herself. She doesn't really like to be messy, so I think that helps. She takes herself to the bathroom most of the time. Sometimes she needs help if her pants have buttons/snaps, but most of the time she can handle it herself. She's actually been pretty particular lately about pooping in private. She doesn't want me in the room when she's going poop. If I go in there, she'll tell me to leave and to close the door. She's been in a pull-up overnight ever since she potty trained and was peeing in it every night. So, we really weren't ready to ditch them. The last few weeks she has woke up dry every morning and immediately goes to the bathroom when she gets up. I woke up to the sound of the toilet flushing at about 5 in the morning a few days ago. She had gotten herself out of bed, walked through the dark house all by herself, turned on the bathroom light and went to the bathroom all on her own! She'd never done that before! So, I definitely think she's ready to ditch the pull-ups. I'm holding off until we get a mattress pad on her bed, though. It's a borrowed mattress, so I really don't want to ruin it with pee accidents!

As for leaving a newborn... for me, it depends on how long and who she is staying with. I have left Greta with DH a couple of times to run to the store. It's getting too cold to get her out with me all the time, so I've been waiting until he's home to stay with her. It's also something I can take just Owyn with me to do and she likes the alone time with Mommy, even if it's just a 10 minute run to the grocery store. We're planning our first outing when Greta will be 7 weeks old. We'll be right here in town and she'll be with my ILs, likely only for a couple of hours. I'm not really looking forward to it, but it'll be like a test run for me before going back to work a couple of weeks later.


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## Everrgreen

I stumbled across some videos I had taken of Royce last night and watched a few.. I saw one from last September and he was still such a baby - he wasn't even talking, just babbling. It's so crazy to think that by this past September he was speaking in full sentences and turning into such a kid. Wow. On a sad note, I couldn't find anything from under 6 months. It's an older camera that uses casettes to tape on and none of them had any real baby stuff. The earliest I could find was 6 months old. I think it must have gotten lost during all the moving and craziness of the past couple years.. Oh well :'(


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## justKate

Ever, so cute about the videos. I need to take more. I've been bad about documenting this year.

We had a waterproof mattress cover for most of the time that Aubs was most at risk of having an accident in our bed. It has happened twice in the last six months, but for the most part it is absorbed by her clothes. I just noticed that she was holding it all night, so I figured we'd try it. She pees right before bed and then as soon as she gets up, and so far so good. Now if we could just get our poop issues resolved!

As for wiping, maybe I could get her to use regular facial tissues. That way only one would come out at a time. Or stack TP in 3-sheet sections for her to use? We just use wipes for poops, when we're lucky enough to get them. As of today, its been 5 days without poop, despite a laxative every a.m. and a suppository yesterday p.m. This really stresses me out. Guess its another glycerin suppository tonight and then an enema tomorrow--we just can't do six+ days. It makes her (and us) miserable.

Sue--Happy Birthday!

Now Aubs is looking for dinner.... more later.


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## mckittre

Borrowing internet for a bit...

Happy Thanksgiving! We had a great community potluck Thanksgiving here. Katmai ate mostly pie, I think (which he was super excited to help me make).

AK: I wouldn't leave a newborn either. I also think they're so little trouble at that age - mostly sleep and nurse and look cute. I'm just now working on getting L to be detached from me long enough to be watched by others, and she's 10 months old!

Sue: Happy birthday! Mine is next week.

Pottying: I'm so jealous to hear of all this potty independence. We've been struggling with K 50% trained for almost a year (perfect naked, and doesn't want to bother with pants on), but we spent the last 2 months insisting he'd be too big for diapers when he got back to the yurt. It's been a week, with about a zillion reminders, rewards, etc... He's perfectly capable if he feels like bothering. But he's still very hit or miss with the whole thing, and part of me wonders if he'll ever get there. Then I think about how he's totally weaned, sleeps by himself after a quick story from dad, and is independent in a whole bunch of ways I never thought would happen. It'll come, right?

Sibling looks: My two kids don't look alike at all. K is blond with hazel eyes and a heart-shaped face. L is a blue-eyed red head with a round face and chubby cheeks. Neither looks all that much like me or their dad either.

Documentation: My kids will grow up to think they only lived outside. We're terrible about documenting around home, then take thousands of photos and a bunch of video for every wilderness expedition. Even worse with the second one.

Board games: That's a neat idea. Both my husband and I like board games, but haven't thought about K playing them yet. Didn't occur to me that he was old enough. However it would be hard to set up in a way that wouldn't be destroyed by the tsunami of a little sister.

I also need to remind K that books exist! We didn't have any on the glacier, so he's gotten out of the reading habit. Oddly, he has become very interested in letters and letter sounds, and is constantly trying to figure out what letter different words start with. He's pretty good with the easy ones, but the process makes me wish English was more phonetically sensible.


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## Thursday Girl

Erin, my oldest was like that with potty-ing, it was so frustrating!! Se is 8 and completely potty trained ; ) We were working on what you are doing at 3 years old. I was afraid her little sister would be trained before her, but that wasn't the case. one day this will be a distant memory, I promise.

as for games, the little sister DID destroy games so it became a special while the little one was napping thing.

pictures: our pictures look like we do a lot more fun crafty nature type stuff then we do. I take pictures wen we do fun stuff, not so much when we are sitting around the house.

Kate- poor thing, my friend's daughter had a problem with going poo and they often had to do that stuff. i know it was tough on them.

Everr- I got my video camera when my first was over a year so I have no video before that. I wish I did. there are so many things i know she did but I wish i could SEE happen again.


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## AKislandgirl

Games: Glad to hear about Candyland. My SIL is sending it to Fiona for Christmas.

Pottying: Erin, we are in the same place as you are. It totally sucks. I went back to diapers for a while and we are just now in the last week or two going back to underwear during the day. I've been using the "oh, its 1:24, time to go potty" approach. Not, do you have to go... because the answer is always no. Then she'll pee her pants 5 minutes later. We are only doing OK with this. Sometimes she'll tell me but mostly not. I've told her she doesn't wear diapers during the day anymore. Crossing fingers that this clicks in sooner rather then later.

We hardly ever remember to take video.

Thanks for the birthday wishes. We had a nice morning. I got the new Harry Potter movie (wondering when the heck I'll get to watch it though!) and some new mittens. We went out for coffee too and Fiona played nicely with the toys in the corner. Then we got home and ate leftovers for lunch. DH lost it over Fiona's normal 2 year old behavior and we spent the rest of the day pissed off at each other. It was a fend for yourself dinner and he didn't bother with a cake or anything so overall I'm a bit disappointed in my day. I feel silly about it though- at 35 should I care about this stuff?

On a good note DH is trying to go to a conference in Seattle in February. If he goes we are going to go with him and stay with my folks while he's at the conference. They live an hour north of Seattle! Work will pay for his ticket and we'll use miles for the rest of us (Maeve will be free of course!) I'm so excited about the prospect of a week with my family and getting to introduce Maeve to my sisters. Fiona has loads of cousins down there too. Crossing fingers!


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## Everrgreen

AK - I would be disappointed too. A fancy dinner isn't necessary but it's nice to be taken care of a bit on your birthday. Was it just because of the fight? I wish I had advice for you.. I guess you haven't had any luck getting him to read a parenting article? It is just so normal for a 2 year old to be a little 'frustrating' at times - especially with a new baby in the family.

mckittre - Welcome back!! I think it's awesome that your kids will have such great videos and photos  And I'm really impressed that Katmai is getting into letters and phonics! R still doesn't know his letters (even just to recognize them), he can sort of sing the whole alphabet song but some of the letters get skipped.. And I made a small effort at introducing phonics and he got mad at me. He said "Mommy NO, don't say that!" and then he ran off lol! Pottying was just his thing - letters not so much 

Kate - Oh poor Aubs! R has sort of the opposite problem - he has loose poop (and sometimes it's more diarrhea-like) every day. I hope she feels better!


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## Thursday Girl

god, those parenting fights. They suck, especially when they interfere with a supposed special day. So sorry the day ended like that.

Junes hasn't nursed in days, I am so happy to have my boobs back, especially since it was SO uncomfortable to nurse her. Today was tough for her (no nap and she spent about an hour and a half of the middle of the night awake) and she really lobbied for na-nas but I didn't give in, she cried for a really long time then I took her for a walk in the stroller and she was happy after that...for awhile. Pretty miserable on and off all day with long crying spurts, even my older girls were pretty cry-ish today. I think they just felt our stress. The house had a flea problem and it was stressful getting it ready to treat the house. It's done now and I look forward to not being bitten or watching my baby itch the 30 some bites on her body. yeah, that sucked. Now Fall break is over and the girls go back to school and i am not looking forward to working at the school tomorrow or planning the daisy meeting for Thrusday or any of the other things I am supposed to do. I feel like I want a break.


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## Mal85

Sue: So sorry your birthday didn't turn out as planned. My DH has the same problem at times. I have to remind him pretty frequently that Owyn is still only 2 years old. She seems so much bigger to both of us ever since we had the baby, but she is still a baby in a lot of ways too. Yesterday he wanted to put her in time out because she peed her pants and got mad at me when I told him that wasn't really something we should "punish" her for. Unless, of course, he really wants her to regress in that area. A lot of the time I try to stay out of it when I disagree with the way he's parenting (i.e. disciplining) her. I realize he has to be able to parent in his way and it will sometimes be different from the way I would do it. And I really make a point not to say anything to him in front of Owyn. I wait until it's over and talk to him in private about what I disagreed with and give him a suggestion for next time. He was really in a bad mood yesterday and was just picking fights with Owyn over things that weren't really worth fighting over.


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## mckittre

Sue: Sorry the birthday wasn't ideal. My husband's birthday was on our trip, and all I could come up with to make him feel special was chocolate soup for breakfast.  Kids were fans of that, though.

Courtney: Sorry everything is so stressful. The weaning will be a good thing for everyone though, when she gets used to it.

Discipline: It is so hard to remember our big kids are really still so little! I know I sometimes expect more of Katmai than he is reasonable, though I try not to (and he's pretty well behaved most of the time). Luckily both my husband and I are on the same page with this stuff though, and about the only thing that gets real consequences for K is hurting his little sister.

Spent most of today dragging a sled stuffed with Katmai and a ton of packages the 3 miles down to the post office (got a ride back). On the 4,000 mile walk my husband and I did a few years ago, we took a lot of video without knowing what we were doing, but an awesome filmmaker in Juneau turned it into a surprisingly good movie. It just won an award at the Banff film festival, which was super exciting. And now I'm selling DVDs, and it's fun to see people actually wanting to order it, even though I feel like all I've been doing is addressing envelopes the past two days.


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks for the support Mamas. I feel like we should go to counseling or something- I doubt he would agree. Sigh. We did have a good talk over lunch the other day. Fiona was with a sitter and we went out to eat. We both agreed that we have things to work on- me being more consistent with Fiona and him chilling the bleep out! Somehow we'll get there. I'm going to make him read Raising your spirited child to begin with- lots of tips for dealing with a challenging kid and a better understanding of why they act up in different situations based on their temperament. Fiona is definitely spirited!

Erin- I want your DVD! I think I'm going to put it on my Christmas list!









Courtney: Congrats on weaning! I hope the stress of it is dying down and she is getting more used to it.

How do you guys get your lo's to bed now that you aren't nursing? Fiona doesn't nurse to sleep but nursing is still part of the bedtime routine... I see some rough nights ahead.


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## Everrgreen

R still nurses, but not to sleep. He does nurse before bed though. I've been reminding him that when he's bigger he will have no num-num and just snuggles. He seems ok with that. I'm hoping we'll wean in the new year. He has not been a happy boy lately and I don't think it's a good time to force him to wean (and it will take some force).

So, my not happy boy is sick again. It is just one thing after another. I really needed to get some studying done today but he was so restless last night, he kept waking up and saying he was going to be sick. Then this morning he was crying about his ear hurting. He slept in until almost 10am! And now he's napping again. Also, the last couple of weeks he has been so upset at daycare drop-off and says he wants to stay with me  On top of that he's starting with some daddy issues - asking where he is and if he can come visit. And he will talk about him randomly - today he was talking about how he's going to be big like daddy. I think it's because of daycare and seeing dads come to pick up their kids and being talked about in class. I feel so bad about it. I actually emailed ex a couple weeks ago to let him know that R has been asking for him and wants to see him, but no reply as of yet. AND, on top of all that, R has developed a pretty bad stutter. It started shortly after he started going to daycare and it just keeps getting worse and worse. So between that, and him wondering about 'daddy', and all his crying when I take him to daycare, and getting one illness after another after another... It's just a lot. And I feel so guilty because it's like all of this is my fault, I feel like what I can offer him isn't enough and it's starting to affect his mental and physical health. Gah! I'll just be so relieved when exams are over and I can have him home with me for 3 weeks.


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## AKislandgirl

Oh Everr!







It is a lot! But you have to remind yourself that you are doing this for him too. Seeing you work hard for your education and getting a good job is fantastic for him! You are giving him what he needs! I'm so sorry that your ex can't also try to see him at least some of the time. That just really sucks for R. I'm sorry that drop offs are so rough lately but keep your eye on the prize... 3 weeks of home time with just you guys! Hang in there Mama!


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## Thursday Girl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AKislandgirl*
> 
> Oh Everr!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a lot! But you have to remind yourself that you are doing this for him too. Seeing you work hard for your education and getting a good job is fantastic for him! You are giving him what he needs! I'm so sorry that your ex can't also try to see him at least some of the time. That just really sucks for R. I'm sorry that drop offs are so rough lately but keep your eye on the prize... 3 weeks of home time with just you guys! Hang in there Mama!


what sue said. I am so sorry things are so hard right now.


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## justKate

Oh Ever, I'm sorry.







Not that it makes it easier, but the never-ending viruses just come with daycare. I'm not sure if I buy the whole "sick now instead of later in school" thing or not. Aubs has had 3 yucky viruses since July, including a nasty vomiting everywhere one. It sucks. And I inevitably get it. Its unavoidable. As for asking for Daddy, that's even tougher. How crappy that you haven't heard from the ex. Maybe you could get R a book about how families can be made up differently? No specific suggestions, just brainstorming. And as for the stutter, it is probably daycare related. Do you think he's trying to mimic someone else? Aubs has started babbling like a baby instead of using the words she knows. It drives me crazy but I'm trying to ignore it and just tell her I don't understand; asking her to slow down. Hopefully it passes soon! Sorry for all the suggestions, I'm just in problem solving mode right now I guess....

timer going off, need to check dinner.


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## mckittre

Ever - hang in there! It's not your fault. And probably a lot of him not being happy comes from being sick - when I'm sick it's easier to feel grumpy about the whole world too. Those 3 weeks will come soon!


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## Everrgreen

Thanks everyone. I had my last day of classes today! Now I just have 5 exams to write, 2 next week and 3 the following week - then I am DONE! R is still complaining about a sore ear, I may need to take him to the doctor. And he wet the bed last night. I'm pretty sure he woke up but I just incorporated it into my dream and continued sleeping lol! I awoke to him snuggling into me soaked in pee. So we changed pyjamas and bedding at 1am last night (and I was NOT happy and R was crying, it was a total parenting failure). Then I was up at 5am to get ready for class :/ I felt bad for being grumpy with R though, I did snuggle with him once we got back into bed so hopefully that made up it.

I think the stutter is probably just a phase. It is a real stutter though (compared to 'normal' dysfluency'). But ex had a stutter at kindergarten age and I've heard there could be genetic links with stuttering. I'm not too worried about it right now, if it continues to get worse I will probably have him see someone just in case.

And as for ex - we haven't seen him since mid-July. I received one email in early October but that's it. No child support since August. Nothing. There is a little ball of anger inside me towards that guy. I'm actually going to be starting counselling soon to try and work through some stuff. It's hard sometimes.

Anyway - we are off to Grandma's house tonight to wash all our pee-soaked laundry! Fun!


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## AKislandgirl

Some pictures for you!

Sisters...


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## Thursday Girl

sheer cuteness!


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## mckittre

Very cute! I have to share one of my 2 in the tent (set up on blue glacier ice in this photo)



And L is starting to walk. Only a foot or two at a time, but still, it seems crazy how fast they grow.


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## Thursday Girl

love the glacier picture, I have questions for you, I know I live in Florida and it doesn't get nearly as cold as in Alaska, but here are my questions.

1) how hard was it to get out of bed in the morning. I find it difficult to climb out of my nice warm bed into my house if it is 60 or below. I imagine if I slept in more then underwear and a t-shirt it might be easier. so what do you sleep in?

2) where did you go to the bathroom?

3) do you just get used to all the layers? I find things harder to do when I am wearing a sweater and a coat. I think maybe outside stuff would be easier but we don't have heat in the house so I have to wear that stuff inside and washing dishes is PIA in a jacket. Also how did you wash dishes?

okay, thanks if you answer my curious questions.

I have entered a mothering contest for craft christmas presents, just wanted to direct you that way. You don't have to vote for my stuff, but if you think it's worth a vote I would appreciate it. One of my projects is tied for first and another is close behind.m

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1337424/the-annual-mothering-handmade-gifts-ideas-contest


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## Everrgreen

I am so heartbroken. A very close member of our family passed away yesterday. I'm in shock. He was only 24 and it was a house fire. He came to live with our family when he was 15 and we've considered him family since. He was like a brother. I'm so angry. It's not fair. He was such a good person and he had so many struggles in his life and was always trying so hard. I don't even know what to do. I can't accept that he's actually gone. I can't sleep. I just made an effort at writing something to read for him at his funeral. I don't know what else to say but I just needed to talk to someone so I'm posting here.


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## Thursday Girl

oh Everr, I am SOO sorry! It isn't fair at all. Wish I could come hug you.


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## Vegan Princess

Oh Everr, I am so sorry!!! I lost my best friend when she was 23. It's horrible. I too wish I could come take care of you. :-(

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Everr: How terrible! I'm so sorry for your loss.







Thinking of you and sending you a hug.


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## Everrgreen

I've made it through another day. I'm exhausted. I've been trying to keep myself distracted most of the day because I don't have the energy to cry any more. I'm trying to study. It's not going well. R has daycare tomorrow and hopefully I can get some studying done. We'll see.


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## Mal85

Big hugs to you Everr, I wish I could be there to hug you IRL. I'm so sorry for your loss...


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## starling&diesel

*Ever* ... I am so sorry for your loss. So tragic and sudden and young. I'm so sorry that you're going through this. It's wrong and unfair and so, so very sad.


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## starling&diesel

Did I post these already? I've lost track ...


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## mckittre

Ever - I'm so sorry. It's terrible to lose someone close to you at any age, but especially someone so young.

Courtney - a quick answer to your questions:

1) how hard was it to get out of bed in the morning

The woodstove in the tent helped immensely with this - we tried to have wood ready inside so we could heat it up before we really had to get going. But we still slept in warm clothes - fleece long underwear for the kids and us, often with a puffy jacket for us in the colder half of the trip, and an extra fleece suit for the kids.

2) where did you go to the bathroom?

Outside. Though we did sometimes set up a spot inside for K to use when he wasn't wearing a diaper.

3) do you just get used to all the layers?

Mostly. I think L never really got used to them - babies always have a hard time moving much with a lot of clothes on - but she was worn a lot of the time anyway. And acclimation works surprisingly well. You don't need quite so many clothes as you think once you get used to the temperature a bit. As for it being difficult to do stuff with layers on, it was hard to notice over the difficulty of doing stuff with two kids climbing on me! As for dishes, having one pot, one spoon, one fork, and one cup (we all shared), makes it pretty easy. We rarely did more than a quick rinse between meals except when we made something like pancake batter.

Starling - such sibling sweetness! How is E doing with the new addition?


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## Nillarilla

Ever I'm so sorry for your loss! You've had such a time of it lately haven't you? That has to be it for the challenges for you for a while. I've never lost someone so close so young so I can't pretend to know what you are going through but I just want to give you a huge virtual hug.
Starling, your children are so gorgeous. I love the tiedyed onsie.

McKittre welcome back. Your trip looks like such a fabulous adventure.

Sue I'm sorry you didn't get a birthday cake. I would have made you a delicious one if we were in the same city.

Mal I hope you are healing and feeling better.

Cindy I hope all is well with you.

Gotta run for dinner.


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## Vegan Princess

OMG, my kid is napping!!! I have time to think!! LOL!

Everr: I'm thinking of you and hoping you are ok!

Nilla: Nice to hear from you!

Starling: Haven't heard from you lately. I hope all is well.

Erin: Love your pics - can't wait to hear more tales! I can't believe L is turning 1! I'm going to my good friend's 2nd child's 1 yr b-day this weekend. Hard to believe that yr went so fast!

AFM: I've just been busy and consumed with IVF stuff. I start my meds on Christmas day. Egg retrieval should be around 14th-16th of January. Eeck! Getting all my paperwork and labs in order is like a part time job. Just found out today I have to go to 2 more labs for more bloodwork (bc of course I can't get it all done at the same lab!) - my like 7th and 8th trip there for this crap!

M is good. A bit cranky lately. I'm glad she is napping bc she's been waking early and went to bed late last night and got up even earlier this morning.

Ok, time for thoughts on christmas stockings and presents???? Stocking: glitter glues, stickers, a beany baby of Boots from Dora that she loved at the bookstore yesterday, a candle and a soap (she adores smelling them at stores and always wants to buy them). Gifts: stampers, magnetic dress up dolls by melissa and doug, alphabet feely box, letter tiles to put in a sensory bin, alphabet bingo, go fish, some more melissa and doug play food for her kitchen, a play toaster, some musical instruments. Those are the things on her "wish list" I sent out. Not sure which we'll actually buy. She really wants a little bike but I think we'll wait until her birthday for that. Could use more ideas. You guys always have great ideas!

Oh and we started our tradition of taking her to pick out her own special ornament this yr. We went to the really decked out Macy's in the heart of San Francisco. I didn't start buying them when she was a baby. But we are home this yr and have a tree up. It was DH's idea bc he has fond memories of going to pick out an ornament each yr. It was really sweet - I let DH help her pick it out the most and I could tell it was really special to him. 

Cindy


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## Mal85

Cindy: Good luck with the IVF, I know it must be so stressful but hopefully it will all be worth it in the end!

Christmas: it's getting so close already! We're having Christmas at my parents' house on the 18th so I feel like I need to have everything ready by then. Owyn is getting a doll stroller and high chair "from Santa", a baby doll diaper bag with diapers/wipes/etc, some new shoes, a couple of new outfits, a toy laptop she's been begging for, some new books and a board game. Greta was the hard one to shop for since she's so young and doesn't really play with anything. So, we got her some things that she'll grow into before next Christmas. She's getting a cuddly baby mat "from Santa", an activity table, Sophie Giraffe, a stuffed owl toy, stacking cups, and several outfits. And they'll both get their stocking stuffers--Owyn's getting girly accessories since she loves them so much and Greta's getting some small baby toys like rattles and teething toys and pacifiers. And they'll both get their ornaments. Owyn chose her ornament this year out of a catalog.

Owyn has been sooo into Christmas this year, it's so much fun! I took her to have breakfast with Santa last weekend and she was so excited to go sit on his lap. I didn't think I'd get her off of him, she was having so much fun just having a conversation with him about his reindeer and candy canes. We also got our tree and decorated it last weekend and decorated the house. She really seems wrapped up in the magic of Christmas this year which is a first and it's so much fun for me watching her! Even Greta is into it. She loves to just stare at the lights on the tree and even gives a few smiles while she's looking at it!


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy! So exciting! Can't believe it's IVF time already. Love the ornament tradition! I always get one for Fiona but it might be fun to have her pick it out. Do you think you will give her all the ornaments some day?

Christmas: We are pretty excited for it around here too. We got our tree last weekend and have it up and some lights. We have been doing lots of winter crafts too which is really fun. Tons of coffee filters painted with water colors and then cut into snowflakes adorne our windows. Big hit, that one!

GIfts; Fiona is getting a beautiful wooden kitchen as her big gift this year. I'm so excited about this! She's also getting some wooden bathtub toys and a story set from this etsy seller. I got in on a co-op for them and got them at 40% off! I bought her a needle felted doll from my niece's etsy shop too. Check it out- she makes some amazing stuff! She's also getting two schleich dinosaours and 2 new books. My mom is getting her some things for her kitchen and my IL's are getting her a balance bike. Sounds like a lot when I write it all down!

Maeve is getting some wooden teethers from the same etsy shop above, a new book, and a wool blanket. My IL's are getting her a little waldorf style baby doll and my mom said she got her some kind of clutch toy.

On Solstice both girls will get new matching PJ's and an ornament from the Solstice Fairy. She has been bringing Fiona Pj's on every solstice (summer and winter) since she was born.









I'm excited because DH and I have decided to just do stocking stuffers for each other and buy a piece of art from a local artist. We have been wanting to buy a piece from him for a long time so we are finally going to do it!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Yes, I will definitely give her the ornaments. Our tree is decorated with ornaments from when I was a child and when DH was a child. We haven't really bought any for ourselves. Though DH couldn't resist picking an ornament for himself along w/Makenna. Also, we did salt dough ornaments and there are a lot of those up that Makenna decorated. That was a really fun project. We'll have to try the coffee filter snowflakes. We tried glue snowflaked yesterday but the glue ran all over and they lost shape. We also made a snow globe - that was fun!

DH woulnd't let M sit on Santa's lap at Macy's! LOL. He has his own santa issues still apparently. ;-)


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## mckittre

Cindy - you must be excited/nervous for the IVF!

Christmas: Both my husband and I hate shopping, so have never been big Christmas gift people. I do like having a tree, so we'll probably go cut one this weekend sometime. And I'll make a big batch of wild blueberry jam (from blueberries I froze last summer) soon, and give jars away as gifts. As for the kids, I don't think K really knows what Christmas is. He can identify Christmas lights and Christmas trees, but that's about it. He knows it's a thing that happens in between my birthday and his sister's birthday, and thinks of it similarly.

This year, my big thing has been insisting to the grandparents that they're not allowed to get more than one gift per kid per holiday! (and we prefer used stuff) I think K's getting my old wooden trains from one gparent, some of my old legos from another, one of his grandpas usually makes a handmade toy, and I don't know what from the last one, or from the great grandparents, or for L. Even with those limitations (and the fact that we aren't buying anything ourselves), I fully expect that we'll get more than we want. We really don't need anything, and don't have room for much, and my kids are the only members of their generation in the family, so I'm working on a way not to dread the gift season! L's birthday is just a week after Xmas, too!


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## Thursday Girl

cindy I LOVE the picking their own ornament tradition. My kids each get an ornament but I think we are going to switch it and have them pick out their own. I got teary when you described your DH picking out the ornament with her.

christmas-stocking stuffers- nail polish, chapstick, a chocolate orange, crayons, a lalaloopsy doll, candy cane and $5.00 maybe some socks, they always need more socks.

solstice- Juniper will get a shirt that I applique foofa on (you might remember her previous obsession and halloween costume)

Jewel- is getting 2 american girl doll outfits I made, and if I get around to it I will make her doll a brownie vest and hat.

Josie- I need to make her a rock and rol dress, think 80's glam rock

they will all get a lalaloopsy dollhouse i made from a cardboard box

Christmas-they were only going to get one present each but a friend wanted to help relieve some of my stress and is helping us this Christmas so they are each getting 2 presents.

Juniper is getting a 2 foot tall stuffed panda bear that's mouth opens up and it has storage in it's tummy. She wanted a large stuffed panda and a)this was the cheapest and b) she LOVES putting things places now we will know where to look. She is also getting a build a bear gift cert

Josie- this is ostentatious, but it is the only thing she wants and with Jo she would rather not have anything then something that isn't what she wants. she wants a pink electric guitar, her second present is a pair of sneakers, they must be pink, sparkly etc or she won't wear them so I am going to see if I can get a deal on twinkle toes. she really needs to wear sneakers and not just dress shoes.

Jewel is getting 2 american girl books, care and keeping of you and mini mysteries, a doll brush and a wii game.

from Hubs and I we got them all some lalaloopsy dolls to share.

My sister is taking juniper (tonight actually) to see Yo Gabba Gabba live tonight, and she got the older 2 girls used DS's.

My oldest sister is getting each girl a book and the family a year pass that works at 2 local children's museums and the science museum.

my other sister is getting Junes a Foofa stuffed animal and the girls the lalaloopsy tree house to share.

my mom got Jewel a boxed set of harry potter books at a garage sale. and I don't know what for the other girls.

all in all they will have a lot of presents, but they only get presents at christmas, easter and their birthday AND they have been champs about being so broke and not getting to do stuff their friends do, and always making do. I feel like it'll be nice to let them get some nice stuff, to spoil them a little and I am super grateful that between my sister and my friend they will be. I was kind of freaking out when i thought it would just be some lalaloopsy dolls from us and stockings.

So Junes has been asking me to take the baby out, like every day she asks. I keep telling her that she is too little and I need to keep her inside until she gets bigger, and then she says "O-tay" and the next day she is telling me to take the baby out again.

Oh and we decided on a name, Coraline March Teresa Smith


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## Mal85

Courtney-- I love the dollhouse you're making them! I've seen the progress on FB, what a great idea to make it out of a cardboard box! So funny that Junes is already telling you to take the baby out. That was something Owyn just didn't quite get while I was pregnant. I showed her some videos of women giving birth, but she didn't show much interest. Ever since Greta was born though, she randomly tells me (and everyone else) that Greta came out of my belly.


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## mckittre

Hearing all of these stories makes me feel I should be less scrooge-like! Katmai had great fun cutting a Christmas tree with me today. But now insists that it shouldn't have lights or ornaments or anything, but that we must make it pink (he wanted to find a pink tree in the woods to start out with). I'll try a compromise where we make some ornaments out of pink paper. Hopefully he'll let me put the lights on too. He is very opinionated and stubborn at times.

We don't really have anyplace to buy ornaments here, and I hadn't thought of getting special ones for the kids. But maybe I can get K to help me make some. Oragami frogs are actually my family's Christmas ornament tradition from when my parents got divorced when I was 9 or 10. Both trees looked so sad and spare that year that I went and made lots and lots of oragami frogs out of wrapping paper to decorate the tree (both parents have kept the frogs and tradition alive).


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## Thursday Girl

that's a great tradition. salt dough ornaments are also pretty easy to make and you could dye it pink.


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## Everrgreen

R is excited about Christmas. It's fun that he is really starting to get it this year. He is getting a bunch of Playmobil dinosaur stuff and a board game. I have no idea what to put in his stocking. Maybe a Schleich animal or two, something crafty, and treats.. I may go to the dollar store and get some little things. Stickers maybe. I don't know. I'm doing all my Christmas shopping this Thursday and Friday (exams will be done and R is still in daycare).

The funeral was yesterday. It was very hard. I still can't believe he's gone. I'm so angry at how unfair this is and my heart is broken and my head keeps trying to figure out a solution but obviously there is no solution. He's just gone. I'm trying to focus on my exams because it's too hard to think about it.


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## starling&diesel

*ornament tradition* ... my best friend's mom buys E an ornament each year, which is a lovely thing for her to do. E noticed the other ones on the tree so I was able to tell her about her two ornaments so far. This is the same woman who showers E in presents and new clothing at every possible turn, so the ornaments are something that stands out a little from the typical onslaught (most of which gets passed on pretty quickly). I do appreciate the gifts, but she goes over the top every time and my own mother feels a little left out when it comes to present adoration on behalf of Esmé, even though I've told my mom that I value her handknitted works of functional art way more than yet another plastic trinket, and my mom knows that ... but still. Kinda stings when everyone else goes along with our minimalism except this grandma. I am especially thankful for the winter coat she bought E though! Those are spendy!

*stocking* ... I'm putting in a schleich animal, mandarin orange, chocolate coins, yogurt covered rice cakes (her favourite), matchbox car. Hopefully that fills it up nicely!

*presents* ... We were considering a dollhouse or barn, or a marble track ... but might just keep it for her birthday. I know she's getting a far amount already from the grandparents and aunties, so not sure that we'll get her anything specifically from us.

*crafts* ... We did cupcake paper snowflakes and made them into a garland. We also made snowglobes. And this week were going to make felt and sequin tree ornaments. I think we'll do pipecleaner and bead candy cane ornaments too, if I can find big-holed red and white beads. We're going to do gingerbread people for our friends and family. When I was a child we made them and put the initial of the person on the belly, so everyone got a personalized gingerbread man or woman. Time to bring that tradition back!

*Santa* ... E is thrilled about Santa this year! She is so excited to leave out the cookies and milk and a carrot for Rudoloph. She went to see a Santa at the mall (we told her it was one of his 'helper' Santas ... what do you all do about all the Santas kicking around?) and told him what she wanted. She's been asking for the same thing for MONTHS. A backpack. So I got a little Skip Hop dog backpack, and will put some stickers and those glow in the dark stars you put on the wall in there and a new water bottle (her's are getting scungy) and maybe a couple of cute snack containers. She's very excited about carrying her own snack around once she has a backpack. She's also asked Santa for a red flower. I think we'll get her a red rose for that request. Easy peasy!

*Ever* ... How hard to go to the funeral. It makes it so very final, doesn't it? I'm sorry you're having such a sad day.

*Erin* ... pink construction paper snowflakes! Pink paper chain garland! I CANNOT believe that L is going to turn ONE! What the heck happened to the year? Where on earth did it go?

*Cindy* ... So excited about your IVF! I can't wait to hear the news of your BFP!

*Sue* ... We do new jammies on Winter solstice too! Can't wait! I bet F will be so excited about her kitchen!

*Mal* ... E often tells people this: "Mama's baby was s'posed to come outta her vagina, but he got stuck so the doctor cut open her tummy with a weally sharp scapple and pulled him out with a great big pop!" Not sure where she got the sound effect from. Yeah. C-section, toddler style.

*Courtney* ... Love the name! I'm a big fan of Coraline, the book by Neil Gaiman. Great choice! Flows great. Deviating from the J theme, eh? What do the girls think about that?

Hi, *Nilla*! Looking forward to an update from you!

*AFM*: H is doing great. He's ten weeks old today! Smiling tonnes and laughing and 'talking' up a storm. I put him in a back carry today, which is such a relief. I'd been nervous to try before now, but I'm glad that I got over that. It was so freeing! We're having a low-key Christmas. We'll do a Christmas day brunch with about eight other people, and then no other committments for the day. We thought we'd take E to a movie in the afternoon. Our neighbourhood has an awesome Solstice celebration each year, so we'll be going to that too. They have a candlelit labyrinth to walk, a big crazy funky marching bad that leads a lantern procession to the community centre, and lots of other cool things to do and see. Jugglers, fire spinners, stilt walkers, etc. That's the highlight of the season for me! E walked the labyrinth with me last year, so she's looking forward to doing it again. Love to all!


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## mckittre

Ever - hugs! I'm sorry you're having such a sad time

Courtney - I like Coraline. Pretty name.

Starling - Back carries are a total lifesaver with 2 kids, aren't they? With K, I didn't manage it until he was 7 months. With L, I did at 5 weeks.

Babies - K was too little to understand when I was pregnant with L, but now he talks about those concepts all the time. Not birth so much, but about how big L was when she was born, whether she had teeth then, whether newborn babies can crawl, where L was when he was inside my tummy, etc...

Christmas - We all had great fun making pink paper snowflakes and pink paper frogs for the Christmas tree yesterday, and also some wild blueberry jam, and cran-rhubarb sauce.

On another note, I have two toddlers now! L has just decided she prefers walking to crawling for transportation, and is toddling all over the place. I still can't believe how fast her babyhood has flown by.


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## AKislandgirl

Erin: Can't believe L is walking now! This year really has flown by! Sounds like a great pink Christmas at your yurt! Love it! Tell what back carries you like. I need to look them up on youtube and get Maeve on my back. She naps on me everyday and this would be amazing!

Courtney: Coraline is a beautiful name! How is the homemade gift contest going? I voted for you and hope you win!

Everr: I'm so sorry that youare going through this. Nothing about this is fair. Big hugs

Fiona is sick which means we all suffer! She's got yet another cold and is super whiney. I know she's sick but its still hard to deal with. Deep breaths and a walk in the cold clear day should help. Plus it'll put her to sleep!







naps are so very rare these days but today she needs one! I'm going to attempt to go to yoga tonight with Maeve. Not sure if she will cooperate but I'm crossing my fingers. I really need it.

We just heard that a bouncy house place is going to be put in in a few months! So great since the weather is often so crappy. It sounds chaotic but I think we will get a lot of use out of it- it will be 2 blocks from our house! I anticipate sending her with DH or the sitter. Not my scene! BUT what is my scene is this... our favorite coffee shop is out the road a bit and we can't get to it often. They have the best baked goods and coffee in town hands down. They also offer gluten free options for Fiona. They are opening a 2nd location in town! This will will have a large kids corner and also a children's book store! So excited!

I've got to run... the sick girl beckons.


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## Thursday Girl

yup, no more J names. I was torn about it, but the only J names i like (Jasper and Jemima) Hubs does not like at all, in fact hates is a better word. We never intended on doing all J's it just happened and we chose those names because we liked them the best. I didn't want to use a mediocre name just to stick with the J theme...plus Hubs and I are both C's so we will have 3 of each. The girls are mostly okay. Josie still wants to name her Jane Palm Tree.

contest, I am currently ahead. I added a picture of the doll bed I made.

Sue sorry Fiona is sick, that is never fun. but yeah for things to do close by!

Erin- wow, she is walking already? time just flew by.

oh and Starling I forgot to mention I LOVE those photos!!

so my Hubs fixed the ceiling in our kitchen. when it gets cold again it will no longer feel like there is a door open pouring in cold air. Poor man is tired as he was up all last night working on it, took a couple hour nap then went to work all day, came home and worked on it some more. PLUS it insulated and the wiring is run properly Yay!


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## Mal85

Courtney-- I love the name! And I especially love that you're using March as a middle name!

Sue-- Hope Fiona feels better. At least she's getting it out of the way before Christmas though, right? Owyn has felt crappy on Christmas her whole life so far. I'm hoping we break that streak this year. She just got over a nasty cold, so hopefully she's in the clear now for the holiday!

We had a big weekend here. Owyn got her hair cut, only the second time we've ever done that. She looks so much older now! We had a surprise party for my mom's birthday Saturday night. It was a lot of fun until the end of the night. My nephew bit Owyn on the face, next to her upper lip. And it was really bad. The older kids all came running saying B bit Owyn and she was bleeding. My cousin got to her first and just by the amount of blood I was really worried he had bit through her lip and she was just hysterically crying. Once we got some of the blood cleaned off, I could see it wasn't as deep a bite as we thought, but it was really ugly. She immediately swelled up like crazy and didn't want anyone touching it. It took a while to get her calmed down. We went home after that and once we were home, she let me clean it out really well and asked for a band-aid. It's looking quite a bi better today. It stopped swelling finally and has scabbed over now.

I was pretty pissed off about it happening. My SIL came over and apologized before we left, but I really didn't say anything to her I was so mad at the time. The thing is, this particular nephew has always been a biter, he always plays too rough, and this is not the first time he has hurt Owyn. And my brother and SIL rarely do anything about it when he's misbehaving. They just roll their eyes and say "Oh that's just B!" Well, that's not okay with me. We had Greta's baptism the next day, so we were together with family again. I did notice they didn't let B play unsupervised that day and were keeping a very close eye on him. I just hope it continues, because I'm not likely to be very nice about it if he hurts my kid again. Owyn went through her own biting phase and it sucked for all of us. She couldn't be trusted to play unsupervised for any length of time. But we recognized that and we hovered anytime we were around other kids. Yes, she still managed to bite but with us being right there, it never got that bad. And she has now outgrown it, because we dealt with the problem and taught her other ways of handling her anger. They just don't seem to be doing that with B and that's what upsets me so much.


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## AKislandgirl

OMG Mal! that sounds terrible! I would have a hard time keeping my cool over that. Glad its looking better now.

Starling: Can I come to your solstice celebration some year?! I remember you talking about it last year too and I think it sounds amazing!

Fiona had her first haircut this weekend too! She loved it! She cut an inch off and it is even curlier now. The lady used the blow dryer too- Fiona was in heaven!


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## Thursday Girl

oh that sucks about Owyn getting bit. I know the type of parent you are talking about. We had to distance ourselves from a family with a rough boy who wasn't properly supervised or redirected when he hurt other kids. He threw a can at Jewel's head when they were at the beach (my sisters were there with them) and the gash was bad and my sisters said the parents didn't really do anything it was mutual friends of all of ours who talked with the boy. Jewel still talks about it and it was years ago now. I know kids will be kids, but like you did they need supervision and guidance or they won't learn.

Love the picture of Fiona's first hair cut. I have been thinking we need to get Junes trimmed soon.

so I have had a lot of amazing things happen lately. We have had a couple of people "adopt us" and help out with the holidays and that has made it possible for us to fix the ceiling in the kitchen and get the heat fixed. For the first time in over 7 years we will have central heat. No more feeding the kids in their bedrooms because the house is too cold! I am really just feeling awesome about how many good people their are and feeling like yes things will be okay.


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## Everrgreen

Courtney - I'm so glad that things are coming together in your house - how awesome to have all that love around  Oh and I love Coraline - love it!

Sue - I love how serious she looks! I'm nervous about R's first haircut because I don't want the curls to go away. I don't think they will though but you never know! I also always imagined he would have long hair as a toddler - but I think he'll probably be into his teen years before it's considered 'long' lol!

Mal - That really sucks. I definitely can be understanding towards parents who are doing everything they can, but if they're just shrugging it off I would be pissed!

Erin - Crazy that Lituya is WALKING! Wow - wasn't she just born??

AFM - Last exam is tomorrow and then I am DONE DONE DONE. I am barely holding onto my sanity. I'm so exhausted from everything. I really need to study but I just want to crawl into bed and sleep (and it's only 5:30pm).


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## Thursday Girl

Everr, I am so glad you will get a break soon. I know how when you get overwhelmed with everything just waiting for that little respite is hard and so nice when you get it. I think I spent the whole year when Hubs was gone feeling like that. I was running booster club back then to and I was just drowning in it all. the good news is that when it is finally all over it's just a vague memory. Don't be afraid to ask for help with whatever you can. If I had done that more it would have made it easier. even little things.


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## Everrgreen

R is back on the daddy stuff again. I know he's processing stuff and he doesn't understand but it is driving me nuts. He's not here, he's not coming. Period. Well last night he started talking about his 'different mommy'. He said he wanted to go see daddy and his different mommy. I told him he only had one mommy, just me. And he said no he had a different mommy and he had two mommy's. This was all said last night when I was seconds from falling asleep. It made my blood boil. I was trying to just not say anything because I know he has no clue what he's talking about. But I'm just so freakin' pissed. He hasn't seen his dad since JULY!!! And his dad told me it was just the two of them but I've suspected since that day that he took R to meet his gf (from the affair). Which completely pisses me off. You haven't spent a single day with your child in MONTHS and the first day you do, you decide to drive him over an hour away so he can meet some stupid 20 year old girl??? And where on earth would R get the idea that she's a different mommy???? And why is he just talking about this NOW?? Where did this come from???

I shouldn't care this much about the ramblings of a 2 year old but I'm just feeling like total complete sh!t right now. Of course R knows I'm his mommy. Of course this stupid girl is not even close to my league. But why did he have to say that?? Agh - I hate this


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## Vegan Princess

Awww Everr, big hugs!!! I'm sorry you have so much on your plate all at once. Good luck on your last exam!!! You have every right to feel exactly what you are feeling! I would be pissed too.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Ever - I hope things get better for you soon! And of course R doesn't know what he's talking about - try not to take it too hard.

Courtney - that's awesome that everything is coming together for you guys. People are awesome.

Mal - that is aggravating about your nephew. I'd be mad too if they just let that slide.

Sue - the back carry I like best is Ruck tied Tibetan. When L was little enough to have her feet in still, I didn't tuck the passes under her legs at all, but just spread them out over her whole body (can probably find a video of that if you need). Once she was old enough to have legs out, I just did it normally. Still use that one every day! (and for Katmai sometimes as well)


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## justKate

Hey ladies, just wanted to check in. I'm about 80% caught up, just not feeling very social these days--maybe a week with the in-laws is what did it. Everything is going fine here, super busy and feeling the stress of holiday family demands--not so much the holidays themselves.

For Christmas Aubs is getting a Radio Flyer scooter, a M&D puzzle, and some cheap books. Stocking-wise, she's getting felt food, apple chips, an ornament, and a stuffed dog she got last year that I never gave her. Gma & Gpa are making a wood kitchen, and they don't know how not to go overboard. My best friend sent clothes and books, which is great. I told the family she needs bath toys.

If i have time, I'm going to make her a Wonder Pets-type cape and clothes for baby dolls. When I was a kid, my mom gave my brother and I an ornament each year. They were always similar, but my brother and I always knew which were ours. I'm going to try to do the same thing for Aubrey. Guess I should be saying "the girls" now!

Back soon for personals, just wanted to let ya'll know I didn't fall off the face of the earth!


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## AKislandgirl

Kate: Glad to hear from you! I was just going to ask where you were! I missed you!









Everr: I am often amazed by Fiona's memory and how she randomly brings things up. I don't know what sparks these memories for her but she'll bring up things from a year ago even. I know you have so much going on and to have the "daddy" talk come up now just sucks. Of course the woman (girl!) is not his other mommy. Maybe he remembers her and is coming up with these labels based on what he is seeing at daycare. I wonder if there are any good children's books about divorce- even though R doesn't have a lot of memories of your ex it might help. Just a suggestion- I don't really know if it would help. Sorry you have to deal with this on top of everything else. Hugs Mama.


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## Nillarilla

Hi all,

I've missed you ladies. I'm home sick from work today. I'm not really sick so much as in a lot of pain. My shoulder that I injured about a year back is acting up. I have 8 shifts left in my rotation at work before I go casual and lose all my benefits, sick pay and vacation. It's totally freaky. I know it's the right thing to do as I drove myself insane trying to do it all these last couple months but still very frightening. I bid on a half time job but someone else got it. I did well in both of my classes so that's relieving. I've been thinking about applying with home care but you need a vehicle and we only have one. My kindergartener's Christmas concert is today, which is another reason I called in because I was supposed to be able to take a few hours off to go see it but circumstances changed and I wouldn't have been able to. I might catch flack but I don't really care at this point.

Stockings: Em is getting lego stuff, a how to train your dragon book, a lego watch, undies and some treats

Dee is getting some hair clips, undies, little robert munsch books, a movie and treats

Presents: Em is getting a team canada jersey, a wii game, and a remote control car. He asked for a leap pad but they are sold out across the country and I am unwilling to spend double to triple the price. We debated a ds but I just don't think he's old enough yet. He's also getting the harry potter lego game.

Dee is getting an ergo for her babies, a potty and bottle, a fisher price doll, some calico critters, a wooden knitting spool, and a lite brite. I want to make her some dollie diapers.

I am really trying not to go overboard this year.

We also do the pyjamas and ornament thing. We haven't seen Santa or gotten a tree yet. It's been to busy. We will do that this weekend.


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## justKate

Nilla, sorry about your shoulder. Sounds like calling in was the right thing to do, physically and emotionally. And you got to do the Christmas concert, and dealing with a little crap about it at work is probably worth it. Hope you get to feeling better. I love the baby doll ergos, but I'm guessing they're pricey. I'm going to make something along that line--like a little mei tai--for Aubs eventually. Maybe something to give her when the new baby comes, since I'm not sure she remembers being carried.

Ever, is it possible that R is just talking, not about exDH's girlfriend? A was insistent for about two weeks in October that she had two mommies. It was the silliest thing. So I decided that maybe someone at school has two mommies, or maybe she's saying that my mom (Grandma) is also her mommy...I have no idea. We talked about how families are all different, and reminded her that she has one mommy and one daddy, and eventually it went away. Weird though. Hopefully R will drop it soon. I wouldn't want to hear that too often either. And hooray for the end of exams! I'm sure you rocked them. And I'm so sorry about your friend. I know the funeral is over, but I'm sure you're still grieving. I hope that your family and his get some peace through the holidays.

Sue, that is a great picture. I think Fiona looks so much like you in profile. I had it in my head that I would wait until Aubs turned 3 to get her hair cut, but it is really starting to need it. Not sure if I should try to do it before Christmas or not. I'll probably put it on the list of things to do next year, along with a first dentist visit. Fun. And speaking of fun, I LOVE bounce houses. Not as a regular thing, but they are really great for wearing the little ones out. My only problem is that I'm so afraid of other kids being rough (or parents being inappropriate) that I end up following her around the entire time instead of just letting her have fun. I think its a mom-of-an-only thing...?

Cindy, I can't believe its almost IVF time! There's a strong possibility that you'll be pg within a month! Are you feeling alright with the meds? And I love continuing the ornament tradition with DH, that sounds really perfect. I wish DH's parents had it together enough to still have some of his childhood things. I think I have a total of five photos of him from his childhood.

Courtney, when is the contest over? I hope you win the Boba. Then you'll have to give me a review. I asked my friend about the Ergos and she seems to think she wants them, even though I don't think they get much use. Oh well, it was worth a shot. I need to pick a carrier get for this baby. I want something just for her--the Ergo was Aubrey's. I bought a ring sling at a consignment shop, but I don't know that I'll use it for long. I'd like some sort of wrap but it seems like they grow out of them quickly. Maybe some materials hold more weight than others? And I LOVE the name you've chosen. Beautiful!

Erin, what type of wraps are you using? Yours seem to hold a toddler's weight just fine. So we don't have TV, but DH was looking through the free stuff on iTunes today and found that the first season of Nat Geo's Alaska State Troopers show is available, so he's been watching that. I pulled up the photos of your trip on your website and now he's got it in his head that we need to go live in Alaska for a while, or get stationed there, or buy a cabin to spend half the year in when he retires. Nevermind how unrealistic all of that is given our current job/financial situation. He's in love. It really is hard to believe L is walking. So amazing how they don't exist and then they're a part of the family, and its like they always were.

Starling, beautiful photos of your babies. Funny about E's perception of H's birth. I have no idea what to tell Aubs about a c-section. It just makes me sad. I tell her babies come out of vaginas, and hope that it will be true for me (and eventually, for her). Maybe I'll tell her that the doctor had to help her come out of mommy. For some reason she's scared of doctors (maybe rightly so?) so I'm trying to make them "helpers" in her mind. Maybe because I don't take her often.

As for us, Aubs has had two major accomplishments recently: 1) I think she has stopped "pushing." Not sure if you all remember, but it was this weird behavior she's done since birth, and after evaluations and everything else, with no reason, it seems to have just stopped, knock on wood. And 2) she has pooped like 5 times without a suppository, which is a first in like 8 months. Still giving the laxative, but I think things might be on the upswing. Now if we can just get the poop in the potty...but honestly I don't care. I'd rather wash poop out of panties every day than worry about her bowels and have to give her suppositories. Behavior-wise, we're having a lot of trouble following directions, but I know that comes and goes. No real complaints.

I'm 24 weeks now and officially looking pg. Gained about 12 lbs., and I'm starting to get some of those lovely pg discomforts--sciatica, SPD, heartburn. I'm just trying to keep my eye on the prize--April is really coming so close! I emailed another doula this evening, and am hoping to chat with her soon. I've already talked to two, and I feel like I'm running out of options. I'm coming to terms with the idea of not having one if its not meant to be, but it shouldn't be so difficult to find someone nearby! I am thinking about attending some Birth Matters meetings--has anyone ever heard of them or been to one? They do Healing Circles and Mothering Circles...thinking it would be good to keep processing some of the crap associated with Aubs' birth to make this one more emotionally positive, regardless of how it goes. The ICAN meetings in this area are just too far for me to drive in the evenings, and there aren't many other options.

So there's a novel for tonight! I should get to bed; DD and DH went hours ago.


----------



## Vegan Princess

Kate: I haven't started the meds yet. I start 2 of the 11 on Christmas day. I don't take 11 at once though, of course. They're supposed to give me a "flow chart". My GIGANTIC box of them arrived yesterday. I'll post a pic of it that I took. It's ridiculous.

Nilla: Glad you caught the concert!

M just finally started using the doll Becco that we bought for her birthday last yr. She is super into her dolls right now. Only she has named them after the teletubbies (eeck). She still insists there is a baby in my tummy and always tells me what she is going to do for it and with it when it comes out. Like how it can sleep in bed with her and mama. It's very cute. I keep telling her we are still waiting for a baby to be in my tummy. Thankfully it doesn't upset me. She has been waiting very patiently though! I actually would be due tomorrow, had I not miscarried. In any case, I don't mean to be depressing by bringing that up - just to say that she is going to be great with a baby by the time one comes. Her dolls are mostly her baby brothers and sisters. Today she said something about a baby coming out of my belly button and I told her they come out of the vagina. She looked shocked and didn't comment on it. LOL.

M needs a haircut too. But it's curly so you can't tell. I just can't bring myself to do it! DH thinks we should just cut a couple inches off ourselves.

Cindy


----------



## justKate

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess*
> 
> She has been waiting very patiently though! I actually would be due tomorrow, had I not miscarried. In any case, I don't mean to be depressing by bringing that up - just to say that she is going to be great with a baby by the time one comes. Her dolls are mostly her baby brothers and sisters. Today she said something about a baby coming out of my belly button and I told her they come out of the vagina. She looked shocked and didn't comment on it. LOL.


She will definitely be a great big sister.


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## Thursday Girl

"she looked shocked" OMG , I find this so funny! I can just imagine her little face.

Kate- I have no idea when the contest ends, soon I hope as I have been stalking the thread and checking out the votes almost daily. I am driving myself crazy.!

Everr- I think it could just be something he made up too. This is the age they like to experiment with different situations, etc. Still freaking tough imagining the possibilities.

Nilla- changes can be tough to integrate, especially when they involve such big financial differences. I find this time of year tough anyway.Glad you got to see the concert though.

AFM-My kitchen is finally finished. (drop ceiling replaced, new electric, insulation and drywall blocking of the attic (and vent right there) from living space. I was starting to get very cranky without a kitchen and even the dining room was taken over by the stuff that should have been in the kitchen. Hubs promised he wouldn't sleep until it was done last night and he held true to that. So this morning we were able to do the few dishes we had been using (we finally switched to disposable when the project went a couple days past the original get done day). The acoustics are different now with the higher ceiling and drywall instead of those sound absorbing ugly drop ceiling tiles that were gross and dirty and 30 years old. I should be cleaning now, the living room is a wreck from the kids eating in there but I am so tired I am going to nap a bit first. I wake up every day at 6:30 then by the time I get some play (no babies in bed with us so I have been taking advantage of having hubs to myself), get the kids up and help Hubs get them off to school I feel like I need a nap.


----------



## Vegan Princess

Ok, how do you get a 3 yr old out of your bed Courtney? I am torn, I like having her there. But I so miss being able to snuggle up to DH. And M insists the middle is her spot and she doesn't want to switch places with me. She has her own bed in her own room. Maybe we will just end up having to put a small bed next to ours though. Part of me is in no hurry to boot her - want to savor this. But I also don't want to grow away from DH.

Can you all please pray for my friend Chris and his wife Cheryl? Their baby girl Sofia was born yesterday at 24 weeks 3 days. She is fighting. I am praying that she makes it! I think she could use all the prayers you could give!!! Thank you!

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy I have prayed for her.

as for getting junes into her own bed. Well it was easier for us b/c she is now sharing a room with her older sisters. The first step was a trip to the store where she picked out special big girl sheets for her big girl bed because she is a big girl!!! (lots of exclamation marks in your speech), Then I started with her by moving her to the bed after she fell asleep in my bed with me. (For her sisters it was a different process will cover them next) So I put her in her bed and the first night she slept the whole night. The second night she woke up and i held her cradled in my arms like a baby and gave her kisses and then layed her in her bed and cuddled her mama bear up to her. Then the next day we talked and she was really excited about now sleeping in her big girl bed. I asked if she wanted to start falling asleep in her big girl bed too and she said "No, I fall alseep in mama's bed" and that is fine with me, I love the cuddle time and she is happy with the situation too.

With Josie I started laying down with her and nursing her to sleep in her own bed, then i would go to mine. ( I am not nursing June anymore so this wouldn't work) then once Jo was used to falling asleep in her own bed the nursies went to bed when the sun did so I just layed in her bed with her until she fell alseep, then when she was used to that I layed with her and read her a book and then left while she was awake.

Jewel actually was moved to her own bed and room at 6 months, we were very mainstream back then


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## Nillarilla

Cindy, We put a twin bed next to ours and that's where both kiddos slept from when Dee was 9 months until she was 2. Then we got them into a room together which they are totally fine with. They love being together which I think is fabulous. If it was just Dee I don't think the separate room would fly. It didn't with ds he would stand in the hallway and scream in the middle of the night. We finally brought him back in after sheer exhaustion when Dee was born. The only time we have a kid between us is during the first 4 months and then we sidecarred the crib. M will be a fabulous big sister.

Thursday so glad your kitchen is done in time for Christmas! I have to go vote.

Justkate glad to hear that A's bowels are evening out. What is the 'pushing' again? Sorry that the pg symptoms have started up but sounds like you have the right attitude. The ergo was $30 at www.bynature.ca and I'm sure when she's done I can pass it along.

Everr my ds went through that phase of saying he had a different mommy and daddy too. I think it might be a age and stage thing? But obviously you have to trust your gut. Most of the time our intuition is right on.

Erin it's amazing you know have two toddlers in that little yurt. You amaze me!

Starling I love the adoring siblings picture!

Sue I've been thinking Dee needs a haircut her curls are weighing down because it's getting so long. Plus when I wash it fluffy bits and all sorts of other things wash out ick!

AFM I got to see the christmas concert which was good. I don't usually enjoy things like that but I know they are important to my children that I be there. It was sweet though since I know some kids in the other grades as well and it was all sung in french which was fun to listen to. It was amazing to see the bands of grade 6 and grade 7 play and the progress between the grades. I hope my boy picks the sax I always wanted to play. Got to start the Christmas baking today but I'm not sure what to make. I only have 4 days off before Christmas.


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## Everrgreen

Nilla - I'm glad you got to go to the concert. Skipping work is necessary sometimes  I'm off to R's Christmas Concert in a few minutes! It should be so cute to see all the little ones.. I'm excited 

Cindy - Oh no, I'm sorry to hear your friend's little girl is struggling. I'm sending all the healthy vibes I can and keeping her in my thoughts.

Courtney - I'm glad the work is coming along at your house. What a relief for you!

Kate - Yay for Aubs accomplishments!! I know these were big struggles for her/you. I'm sure the pooping on the potty will come next. (If you can - work on getting her to go right on the toilet. R got used to the potty and then had to be persuaded to switch to the big toilet. The potty needs to be cleaned out, the big toilet can be flushed - so definitely better!)

AFM - Thank you all for the reassurance about R's 'different mommy'. I think it is possibly something to do with daycare. Even if it is combined with memories of the gf I know it isn't like he actually views her as a mommy in anyway. He's only met her once! (Other than a few brief times way back when ex and I were still married and she was just his employee (well... 'just'), but R was only around 6 months then). Anyway, I've decided to not to feel insecure about it. I happen to think I'm a pretty awesome mom to R and nobody can top that 

Time to go to the Christmas Concert!! Last night R and I baked cookies for his teachers and the other staff and made homemade cards. I'm totally not as crafty as the rest of you but we did alright (dollar store stamps with paint - woohoo!)


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## justKate

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess*
> 
> Can you all please pray for my friend Chris and his wife Cheryl? Their baby girl Sofia was born yesterday at 24 weeks 3 days. She is fighting. I am praying that she makes it! I think she could use all the prayers you could give!!! Thank you!


Oh how hard. I hope they all stay strong! Keep us posted.


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## Vegan Princess

Thanks for the bed tips Courtney and Nilla! I think we are going to dig out the crib mattress tomorrow and try that on the floor next to our bed. I asked her tonight if she wanted to sleep on the little mattress next to us and she said yes. I said she'd have more space to herself and still be close to us. I'm going to play up that it's like camping. I think it will have to wait until Sunday though bc tomorrow we are having a rare date night and the sitter will put her to bed in her own bed anyway. Anyway, she says she wants to try it but we'll see what actually happens. I guess we could always move her when she's asleep.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Ever - Hope you have fun at the Christmas concert.

Nilla - glad you got to go to your kid's show.

The school here does a show every year as well, and most of the town comes (even those without kids). It's kind of fun, but everyone knows everyone, so it's different than in most places.

Cindy - Thinking good thoughts for your friend. As for bed stuff, we moved K out starting at 19 months or so to clear a spot in the bed for the new baby. I worked on nightweaning him first. Then for a long time he laid with daddy to fall asleep and got moved afterwards. Now, we can just tuck him in, tell him a story, and he just falls asleep. Amazing! He's in our room still (inevitable, as we only have one room).

Courtney - Yay for a kitchen. I like to cook, and my whole yurt sometimes turns into a kitchen...

Kate - The wrap I use every day is a woven wrap - they hold weight way better than a stretchy fabric does. The one I have is a Neobulle (because I could find it not too expensive used on the baby wearer forums), but I think most brands would be fine if they're woven. I wear L for hours every day in it (she's maybe 20 pounds or a bit more?), and K when we go on hikes (though his dad wears him more).

Starling - Interesting about their perceptions of birth. K was so young he never even asked how it happened. For him, it was just "L got too big and then had to come out of mom's tummy and she didn't have any teeth and couldn't even crawl then" with not even a thought as to how the birth part could happen. We have pregnant friends now, but he still doesn't ask.

AFM - I don't want to play favorites between my 2 kids, but right now I have one incredibly cute sweet funny almost 1-year-old who's just learning to walk and say words, and makes everyone laugh. And then I have a stubborn willful almost 3-year-old who is constantly thwarting all our attempts to get out the door, refusing whatever food is on offer, knocking over his sister, and peeing his pants. Sigh...The contrast makes it a little harder to deal with the toddler-ness. Hard not to wish they could stay little a bit longer! Though I know K is really not too difficult as toddlers go.

He's getting more into hiking and walking himself these days, which is fun. He took it upon himself to walk all the way into town last time he went (over 3 miles). I was very impressed.


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## Vegan Princess

Erin: LOL about the comparison! I can relate, though I only have her videos and memories to compare her to. We've been going through a demanding, whining, has to be her way, difficult phase too. In some ways she is so much easier and very fun - but in some ways she is so challenging and drives me crazier than when she just cried all the time as a baby. The whining just makes me crack.

Date night tonight!!! Been months since we've been out alone. Going to a funky Japanese restaurant that has cool seats - I think our seats are on the ground and our table is closed off by one of those paper sliding curtains. Looking forward to a little sake and then getting a drink at this other restaurant that has good mixed drinks. I better not drink much though - i haven't been drinking at all lately in preparation for my IVF cycle. Plus I'm hosting a cookie exchange tomorrow.

Cindy


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## Mal85

Are all the toddlers whiny right now? Owyn is driving us nuts! It's as if whiny is the only tone of voice she has right now. I tell her I can't understand her when she talks like that. I tell her I don't like the way she's talking to me. I give her examples of how to better ask for things. It still doesn't work, so then I crack and end up yelling at her or just completely ignoring her. She's into repeating herself over and over and over and over again. And in a very whiny voice. That voice is just like nails down a chalkboard to me!

Today she is spending the afternoon with my ILs while DH cleans and I do some baking for Christmas at my parents' tomorrow. I'm a little annoyed with my ILs at the moment. I usually don't get too particular about gifts. I usually figure as long as people are kind enough to get her things because they love her, I shouldn't complain about it or try to control it. That motto has worked for me up until now. My ILs have randomly given Owyn gifts in the past and then asked to keep it at their house for her to use there. Then, this Christmas they decided to get her a Big Wheel... and want her to keep it down there to use only. Is it wrong that this annoys me? I don't mind them having things at their house for the girls to use, but it seems to confuse Owyn when they give her something then don't let her take it home. The last couple of times they've done that, she's repeatedly asked for the item when we're at home and wanted to play with it. She knows its hers and that it was given to her, but gets confused when I tell her it had to stay at Grandma and Grandpa's. So, DH asked his dad not to give Owyn the Big Wheel if they were going to keep it at their house. He just said to get her something else for Christmas and just have the Big Wheel at their house instead of making a big deal out of giving it to her. So, my MIL asked me about it and said they'd just put on the gift tag that it was to "Papa and Owyn" so they could play with it together. Well, that doesn't really help the issue when it comes to confusing Owyn. She's still going to think it belongs to her and will want to take it home.

I had no idea that DH had talked to his dad about this, so when my MIL mentioned it to me I was a little caught off guard and didn't really say anything, but it's been annoying me ever since then. They're obviously excited about giving it to her and I don't want to ruin it for them but I'm seeing a fight with Owyn when we don't take the Big Wheel home with us. Maybe I should just let it be and let my ILs see how Owyn reacts. Either way, DH said he'll talk to them again after the holidays and just ask them not to do that in the future. They've had other toys at their house... things they've purchased or kept from when DH was a kid. These are all things Owyn plays with when she goes there, but since they were never given to her, she seems to understand they don't belong to her. That, to me, is different than when you give someone a gift. I don't know, maybe I'm just over-thinking this.


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## justKate

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess*
> 
> I guess we could always move her when she's asleep.


That's what we do every night.







But at least I get a few hours without elbows and feet. But yay for date night! I hope you have a great time.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Mal85*
> 
> My ILs have randomly given Owyn gifts in the past and then asked to keep it at their house for her to use there. Then, this Christmas they decided to get her a Big Wheel... and want her to keep it down there to use only. Is it wrong that this annoys me? I don't mind them having things at their house for the girls to use, but it seems to confuse Owyn when they give her something then don't let her take it home. The last couple of times they've done that, she's repeatedly asked for the item when we're at home and wanted to play with it. She knows its hers and that it was given to her, but gets confused when I tell her it had to stay at Grandma and Grandpa's. So, DH asked his dad not to give Owyn the Big Wheel if they were going to keep it at their house. He just said to get her something else for Christmas and just have the Big Wheel at their house instead of making a big deal out of giving it to her. So, my MIL asked me about it and said they'd just put on the gift tag that it was to "Papa and Owyn" so they could play with it together. Well, that doesn't really help the issue when it comes to confusing Owyn. She's still going to think it belongs to her and will want to take it home.


Yeah, that would annoy me. If its a gift to her, she should take it home. If its something that they've bought for her to play with when she visits, then it shouldn't be given as a gift. I can even see giving it to her, and then you and DH taking it back over there after a while and "forgetting" to bring it home. If Owyn loses it you should definitely let the ILs see the meltdown. My mom has this habit of not believing me when I tell her something, until she sees Aubs lose her mind over it. Its almost like she thinks I'm making it up. My parents have some toys at their house for Aubs--my little table/chairs/tea set/doll crib/dolls/stuffed animals and books from when I was a kid. They also have some things they've picked up at a consignment shop, like a $7 wagon, puzzles, a ball.... But we always refer to those as "grandma's toys." Because they live with grandma, they must be grandma's toys.

My mom is driving me crazy right now. She was out of the country for 10 days this month; we were in CA for 6 days. Now she's annoyed that we're only going to stay 3 nights with them over Christmas. Sorry, but I want to be home. At my house. And DH has to work a half day on the 23rd and a regular day on the 27th. So she whines and I feel guilty. Ugh. Sometimes I think it was easier living 1,000 miles away....


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## AKislandgirl

CIndy: Prayers for you friends baby!!

In many ways living far away is easier! i would lose my mind if I lived close to my IL's. Mal, I'd be annoyed by that situation too.

My MIL asked us for some gift suggestions for Fiona and Maeve. I gave her a couple. She said she does a $100 per grand child thing. She ended up getting F a balance bike. I think its great! But then can't help herself and has bought tons of other stuff to give her too. I really was hoping for just one thoughtful gift. I'm honestly probably not going to give her the other stuff. I hope that doesn't make me a terrible person! She gets overwhelmed so easily though that i don't see the point in giving her 5 plus gifts from her grandparents. I'm also going to try REALLY REALLY hard to start a no birthday gift rule and just ask for a month of dance class to be paid for. I can't stand all the plastic stuff she sends. OK, vent over.

Speaking of dance class... We are going to start in the new year. Rhythm and Movement classes start for 3 year olds here. We will see how she likes it but I have a feeling it will be right up her alley! They make a big deal out of doing the recitals around here though. Our plan is to withdraw from class for that month. They have something like 8 practices a week for the recitals!! Even for 3 year olds. So not my thing. I just want her to have fun dancing around with scarves and things! Plus she tells me she is going to go to school soon! (She idolizes our sitter who she knows goes to school). I'm going to go to school like Kenzie! Yep, dance school!

The other day she and I had this conversation...

F: Mama, Maeve has a vulva like me?

M: Yes, she's a girl too.

F: Oh! You have a vulva too?

M: Yes, I'm a girl too.

F: No Mama, you have a 'hairy' vulva!!


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## justKate

Sue, that is too cute. We have a lot of trouble distinguishing between vulvas and bottoms. Very confusing stuff!


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## Everrgreen

Sue - LOL! R has asked me where my penis is a couple times. Surprisingly he's never commented on the hair (I guess he's just more worried about my missing penis lol)

Dance class sounds fun! I so want to do more with R. He is going to start swim lessons in January but that's it for now. And then soccer in the spring/summer. Maybe next fall I'll sign him up for something (and then he'll be old enough to actually tell me what he'd like to do.. hopefully)

Kate - That is frustrating.. I'm not sure why someone wouldn't understand wanting to be home for Christmas - especially when you have kids?? Could your mom visit your house instead?

Mal - That's ridiculous! Gifts shouldn't have strings attached, ever. I agree with Kate, if they want something for their house it should just be bought without being a 'gift'. You should do the same to them, buy them something but then say "Oh but we're going to take it back to our place, it's just for you to use when you're there" lol. The toys at my moms house are just random things from when I was a kid as well as a few other things I brought over from R's stash.

Cindy - Woohoo! Enjoy your date  My mom has offered to babysit New Years Eve so I'm going out with friends that night - can't wait!

Erin - LOL! Yep I remember around age 1 was a good time... Almost 3 - not so much  I do appreciate the increasing independence and the vocabulary, but there are definitely challenges! R's whining/screaming/crying drives me NUTS. Sometimes I can get him to calm down but other times forget it. And I hate to yell but it happens (and is totally ineffective, so why do I bother?) And when I yell R gets upset and says things like "Mommy don't yell - I just love you so much". Which makes me feel like a complete ass (although, I also think, if you love me so much why are you trying to make me go insane? lol) Oh dear!

RE: babwearing: I have a didymos that I used with R and I really liked it. It was a bit hot in the summer (despite being a linen blend which was supposed to be cooler). But it was comfy and with lots of support. I also have a Boba carrier that I still use once in a while and I really like it. It's a toddler carrier though so not for use with a newborn. I think my favourite for a newborn is a ringsling (although I didn't have one with R at the newborn stage, but used it with a friends babe..) I have kept all my carriers, I can't wait to use them again someday 

AFM - It is 4:30am and I'm awake. I woke up really dehydrated and the process of getting up to get a drink woke me up and I can't sleep. My anxiety has been very high for a while now, so I'm a bit wired most of the time. Like now.


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: Sorry about the insomnia. I've been having it too. My mind is a little worked up in anticipation of IVF. No fun.

Sue: LOL! Funny conversation. We've been talking more about babies coming out of vaginas tonight. Ha.

Mal: I see your point. It's like giving a gift and taking it back in a way, to a child anyway.

Date night was fun. The restaurant was very authentic Japanese, no sushi. Lots of Japanese people. DH and I were very out of our element with that menu. We needed help figuring it out. I had a good laugh before we left: I had some sake and had a little buzz then visited the bathroom. Sat down and thought "ooooo heated seats! I like!". Then I saw the control panel. I tried out the "rear wash" and "front wash" and then got my booty blow dried! All while I laughed hard enough to have tears in my eyes. Good thing it was a private bathroom, not stalls. Tee hee! I'd seen these potties in the airport when i flew through Japan on my way to Thailand but didn't try them. The mix of the sake and testing it out was a silly combo.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Mal* ... Totally wierd to give a kid a present and them make them leave it behind when they leave. You should ask Owyn as you leave your parents: "Do you want to leave your new toy here or take it home." And then, looking pointedly at your parents, add, "After all ... it is yours to do with what you'd like."

*Genital conversations* ...

E: How come I don't have a penis like H?

Me: You're a girl. Girls have vaginas.

E: Only girls have vaginas?

Me: Usually.

E: Sometimes boys have vaginas too?

Me: (Silently wondering how much I want to go into this right now.) Well, yes.

E: Then how do they know if they get vaginas or penises when they borned?

Me: (Slightly bewildered). Good question!

*Ever* ... I was going to ask if you wanted to sell your didymos until I saw that you're wisely stashing them away for your next baby. I have a Vatanai (along with my sling and Ergo), which I love, but I would like to add to my collection!

*Courtney* ... I'm all for staying home for Christmas!

*Cindy* ... I had such bad insomnia leading up to my embryo transfers. It's a totally different experience to be anticipating the MOMENT you might become pregnant, isn't it? Your date night toilet experience sounds hysterical! So funny.

Hi *Nilla*! So good to hear from you!

*Erin* ... My ten week old can do no wrong, and my nearly three year old is driving me insane. Sigh. Big sigh. She is so quick to react theses days ... even if we're about to tell her what she wants to hear, she's already ramping up the hysterics in anticipation of not hearing what she wants. I keep telling myself that I am *proudly* raising a strong, opinionated, passionate girl who will become a strong, opinionated, passionate woman. Rock on, strong kids! (Now let me go lie down to recover from the exhaustion of raising said child. Jeezus.)

*Grandparents houses* ... My mom would LOVE for E to spend more time at her house. She and my stepdad live two + hours away, via ferry. Not that far, but I don't want to go. They're practically hoarders, and my stepdad is an alcoholic who is only drinking more and more these days. They bicker and bitch at each other all the time. It is a joyless marriage, and I don't want E to see that. I remember such wonderful times spent at my own grandparents house. I'm sad that E won't have that to hold dear. Breaks my heart. My mom comes over at least one night a week and stays the next day to take E out for the morning. I love that they're close, but I do wish that E could go stay with her for overnights when she is older. Not going to happen. Anyway, all of that was to say that my mom has a basket of toys, that never gets used. It's so sad. She won't leave my stepdad, but is only staying because they can't afford to divorce (they couldn't live comfortably if they had to split pensions, etc.)

*AFM*: Writing the above makes me really sad. Bah. Anyway, we are going great! H is ten weeks ... or is it eleven? Jeez, time flies bizarrely fast with subsequent kids! We're doing a Christmas morning brunch with my parents, my sister (aka, bestest friend) and her girlfriend, and then we're going to have a low key rest of the day. I think we'll go see the new Muppets movie in the afternoon. Usually we have a busy day with brunch and dinner, but my sister is going to her gf's family this year, so we nixed supper. And I don't want my dad here that long. He gets squirelly when he's away from his booze. Fine by me to cut it short. Short and sweet!

We got E Candyland after reading about the other kids enjoying it. She asked Santa for a blue back pack and a red flower ... got those. And we got a few things to put in the backpack.

We're hoping to go up the mountain tomorrow and find some snow! It's my partner's one day off from last week until Christmas. She's gone from eleven until eleven these days.

I know I'm missing people and events but must go for now. Hi Sue, Hi Kate!

Super busy time for chefs. The local ski hill has a reindeer up there right now. How cool is that! Can't wait!


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## Mal85

I'm glad I'm not the crazy one when it comes to the gift! Thanks for the support ladies. I think I'm going to let it ride for now and see how Owyn reacts on Christmas. We just got home from Christmas at my parents' house, so she's now experienced being given gifts and bringing them home with her so we'll see... She actually seemed surprised today that we were bringing her new things home. She was excited to receive them and played with them and when we started loading up the car she got even more excited to see we were bringing everything home with us.

I was a little surprised with Owyn today. She's normally so excited to be around the whole family, but today seemed to just confuse her. She didn't know what was going on with all the gifts and the older kids being so excited. She kind of clung to my side most of the day. But maybe last weekend's biting incident had something to do with that. Who knows? We've really toned down the gift-giving at my family Christmas, so it was nice today. Not overwhelming with all the stuff and able to just spend time together. The adults don't buy for all the kids since there are now 20 kids, it'd just be too much! Instead we just buy for our Godchildren and if the kid has more than one Godparent in the family, we go in on a gift together. That way no one gets more gifts than anyone else, just one from their Godparents. We had to force my mom to stop buying so much a couple of years ago. She was spending waaaaayyyy too much money on gifts since she has so many grandkids. So, from them it's just an ornament, an outfit and one toy. Owyn got an outfit for her Bitty Baby, which she loved! We got her a diaper bag for her Bitty Baby that she'll open on Christmas morning, so I was glad to see she liked the outfit so much... means she should love the diaper bag too! Now, Greta got spoiled. Everyone always buys for a new baby, they just can't help it. So she is set on outfits and my mom got her an activity mat too. I think we'll try out the mat tomorrow, she's been loving floor time lately!

Cindy: Reading your story about the toilet made me literally laugh out loud! Sounds like something I would do! Glad you guys had a great time.

Starling: Your Christmas plans sound great to me, I'd kill for a leisurely afternoon at home! Luckily, DH will be off the day after Christmas so hopefully we'll get our leisurely day then. Oh and the pics are darling!


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: Love the pics! Your kids are so beautiful!  I'm sorry your DP will be working so much these next couple weeks! They have reindeer at the academy of science museum here - they're pretty neat! I'm sorry about your step-dad. It's so great that your mom comes to spend time every week though! I so wish M could spend more time with her grandparents. My mom talks about moving here. I'm so torn though. It would be amazing to see my mom whenever and have lunch or just hang out with her when we're bored. Or have her babysit. But she is a drama queen and prone to be very despressive and she is super OCD - I don't know if I could stand having her so close all the time.

Mal: I like how your family divies up presents! I do presents with my own parents but not my 2 siblings or their kids. My brother and sister have 14 kids amongst them. It would be insane. We do do gifts for every single person on my DH's side. It's nice to get so many gifts and still doable bc there are only 3 grandkids. I can see it becoming too much in the future though when there are more little ones and after my youngest brother in law gets married (whenever that may be).

Courtney: I nominated you to win a $50 gift card to discount school supplies on a blog I read. It was by email, not for everyone to read. I just told her I was so impressed by the hard work you did putting together gifts, etc. for families in need while you didn't even know where your own children's gifts would come from. I think you deserve to be recognized! 

Ugh. I got M's cold. Now I feel whiny. LOL. We were supposed to go to the academy of science with my friend tomorrow but she decided to skip out bc she doesn't want to catch our colds. Fine by me - I wanted to flake but was going to suck it up and go. But I am so happy to get to stay home and veg. Not that I can really veg too much without feeling like a bad mommy for letting M watch too much TV. But there is no other way to rest. Hopefully I'll feel much better tomorrow though. Last time i got her cold it lasted less than 24 hours!

Cindy


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## Vegan Princess

Oh and DH went shopping by himself today and went a little crazy and bought this whole Plan Toys wooden city/train track thing for Makenna. It's very cool but way more than I would have spent! Not to mention the other things he bought. Oh well, it's cute to see him take an interest in wanting to shop for her on his own and pick things out for himself, instead of just what i picked out. I got her a go fish game and a wooden toaster. I think that's enough from us! We've actually bought her way more than we usually do. Usually we only do like 1 toy and let the rest come from relatives.


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## Everrgreen

Starling - Very cute pics! I'm sorry to hear about your mom and stepdad's problems. It is very hard to see people you love in situations like that. My mom's mom and stepdad were both alcoholics. We still saw them for holidays and other little visits but I definitely was not close to them in a real 'grandparent' way. I never really thought much about it growing up, it just was what it was. They both passed away within a couple weeks from each other this spring. As an adult looking at it I feel sad for both of them. I know they both had troubles in their lives that led to their problems. I also was never close to my dad's mom (who will be 100 in August!) But we had other older people in our lives that filled that grandparent-love role

Mal - I'm not surprised Owyn was overwhelmed - 20 kids?! All full of Christmas excitement and opening presents?!? It sounds like a lot of fun though  My family is so much smaller! My brother has no kids. But my mom and aunt live together and her 2 boys and their 3 kids will be coming over Christmas day.

Cindy - Your toilet story sounds awesome lol! I'm glad you had a nice date  I have too much stuff for R this year too (he's just so much fun to buy for!) But I'm going to go through it and save some for his birthday. Hope you feel better!

AFM - I'm sick. So remember how I woke up at 4:30 dehydrated? Well I went back to sleep but then woke up in the morning dizzy, tired, weak, slightly nauseous. Yesterday I had a headache and backache and could not get out of bed. I was so tired and dizzy. I've felt a bit queasy but not really like I'm going to throw up. I feel a bit better this morning but still have a headache and still a bit queasy and weak. I think it might be a migraine but I don't know. I just feel awful. I think I'm going to go back to bed and hope for the best.

ETA - I had a bit more rest and I'm feeling better. I think I'm going to brave a quick outing to finish my Christmas shopping. R is eager to get out of here, he's been so good while I've been sick.


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy: Loved the toilet story! I laughed out loud!!

Mal: Glad things have mellowed out in the toy department at your parents.Your family sounds a lot like mine- huge! With lots of kids. I would love a Christmas where we are all together. We don't do gifts for everyone (16 grandbabies) anymore. Some years I've made ornaments for each kid though. I'd like to bring that back... next year! Or I saw on soulemama a cool idea for a gift. Collect white mugs from the thrift and write each kids initial on it and put some cocoa mix in. I think that would be fun!

Starling: lovely pictures! I dig H's t-shirt! Sad to hear about your parents. It sucks seeing people you love go through that. My IL's are alcoholics. If I were being honest with myself I'd probably say that DH is an alcoholic too. The only time he doesn't drink everyday is when he is away at sea. My dad drank a lot when I was a kid but went to treatment when I was in 3rd grade. There has been zero alcohol in my parents house since. Such a contrast to visiting DH's family where they have their own bar in the basement and everyone of them drinks beer everyday. They seem shocked when I decline. I drink sometimes but not everyday and they don't really get that. (Besides I drink good beer because I like the flavor... not bud light or coors, blech! I'm a snob!)

Everr; Sorry you are sick! Migraines totally suck. I hate them!!!

We are doing Christmas with just us this year. We've had friends over for the past few years but I think we are tired of hosting everyone. It's a lot of work to get the house uber clean, make a bunch of food and keep the kids happy. We anticipate Fiona being pretty amped up because of the gifts too. So we are planning a nice family dinner, a long Christmas hike, and just us. I'm looking forward to it.

Fiona is constantly talking to imaginary friends these days. It's funny to hear the things she talks about. She also changes her voice to be the various characters she's talking with. I love it!

We have been on a major decluttering mission. We've donated or thrown out over 8 trash bags full of stuff so far! Feels great!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Hmm. I'm not sure how I'd describe my husband. He drinks 1-2 drinks on most nights. A bottle of wine some nights on his own or 6 pack on his own on a Friday night. His family is all drinkers. Not alcoholics but def drinkers. My parents didn't really drink. My mom would have 1 drink/yr and get drunk off of it and we never had booze in the house. Anyway, DH def drinks more than I prefer - and it pissed me off a while bc I thought it was contributing to his low sperm count. I still think so but the doctor told him it was fine so I stopped nagging him about it.

We are having a quiet Christmas this year too. We usually go to Indiana to be with DH's family. But this year my mom is flying up. She and I will do church on xmas eve (she's religious). DH is going to make his family's strata on xmas morning and we're looking forward to just relaxing. We'll go over to DH's cousin's house for dinner on christmas. I'm just so happy to no be flying anywhere this year!

Cindy


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## Mal85

I grew up with a dad that drank daily. I suppose you would call him an alcoholic, but a functioning one. He rarely drinks to inebriation. I suspect his tolerance is just that much higher at his age. And he pretty much only drinks beer. Liquor is for special occasions. DH is big into beer and wine, and he drinks most nights. Not every night, but he used to. He really just enjoys the taste and has taken up brewing his own beer and making his own wine. So, it's really a hobby for him. He still drinks more often than I'd prefer, but since he's rarely inebriated, I don't complain much anymore. It's the time he spends on making all his alcohol that I complain about!


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## mckittre

Starling - that's sad about your mom and stepdad. My husband's dad is an alcoholic, and has been his whole life. He's still a nice guy, and makes awesome homemade wooden toys, but it's clearly taken its toll on his health - and I wonder if he'll be around to be a grandparent much longer. By the way, H's shirt is awesome.

We are incredibly blessed in the grandparent department. We live literally next door (on the same property) to my husband's mom, who is the most awesome neighbor and grandma one could possibly wish for, and the kids adore her. My mom is great too and comes up as often as she can (she'll be here for Christmas). My dad and stepmom can't make it as frequently, but are also wonderful.

Cindy - funny date night story! Mostly I love our town, but I do occasionally wish there was someplace to go out without the kids once in a while (I'm not a real bar person).

Ever - sorry you're sick

Mal - wow, that's a lot of kids! No wonder it was overwhelming. Until we get down to a pair of second cousins who live in TX (that I've met once), my kids have no one in their generation at all, on either side of the family. Our siblings are all single, so my kids have no cousins and are the only grandchildren in the family. I had a great relationship with my cousins when I was little, and am kind of sad they won't have that (if they ever have cousins, they'll be much younger).

AFM

I'm not exactly glad to hear that everyone else's kid is a whiny monster too. But I kind of am, because it makes me feel better.  Grandma is on winter break (she works at school this week), and K's been spending a lot of time at her house, which is good for everyone, I think.


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## AKislandgirl

Yeah, I can't really remember the last time DH was "drunk". What bugs me is when for example we go visit my folks, he'll go have a few beers at a bar or when we go out to eat since he can't drink at the house. My thoughts are, "really is it that hard to just go a few days without drinking?!" He claims that since he has to put up with visiting my folks and the total chaos that is involved he deserves it. What ever. I usually just ignore it. Real healthy right?! LOL!

On a good note... I know I've vented here a few times about the problems we have been having. We are doing so much better. I feel relieved. It took one of those huge talks that we never like to have that involved spilling our guts and crying... but we got it out there and are much better for it. Fiona is behaving better too. I know that she felt the stress of our relationship too.


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: So great that you guys were able to talk things out and relieve the tension!  Makes me happy to hear that you are feeling better about things.

I got M's hair cut!!! It was a spur of the moment decision. DH has been threatening to cut it himself so I figured I better get it done before that happened. Just 2-3 inches to even things up. She did great and enjoyed it. She said she wants to get her hair cut again on her birthday. I texted DH a pic after and he said he was caught off guard and didn't know I was going to do it today and was a little sad. I'd made an appt a while back that we cancelled and he had no interest in going back then. She looks the same though - it's just a wee bit shorter. And she put the longest piece in an envelope for me - that is the piece she was born with. I'll post a pic later.

Off to make some vegetarian matzoh ball soup for my cold.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Oh I want to see a pic! I've figured a way to make R's hair look half decent (wet it and use leave-in conditioner), but then as soon as he puts on his toque it's a mess again (frizzy curls!). Would it be wrong to start using gel? *sigh* I guess it's ok for a toddler to have messy hair..

AK - I'm glad you were able to have a good chat with your DH and get all of that out there. I know R is very sensitive to my emotions so I'm sure Fiona was picking up on your stress. *hugs*

AFM - I'm feeling much better now. Just a bit of a lingering 'hangover' feeling. Tomorrow we leave to go spend 3 nights at my dads house. I have plans to see some mom friends I haven't seen in over a year (since I moved from there), also a friend from high school contacted me and is planning a reunion dinner Friday night so that will be fun!, and we'll see the ex-inlaws too.. And then of course lots of visiting with my dad in between  We will get home Christmas eve and are then going over to my mom's house. My cousin and his 3 year old son are staying over Christmas eve as well so the boys can have Christmas morning together  So it will be busy for the next few days! But fun!


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## Thursday Girl

I can't believe Christmas is so soon. I have things I need to do before, I suppose I will get around to them. I should be doing laundry since Hubs fixed the dryer but I need some down time from dealing with my mom. Christ tat women drives me bonkers. I totally made her cry but sheesh I feel like she is taking advantage of me or at least not considering me and the kids while i drive her around all the time. Every trip to the doctor she throws in extra errands, she consistently does not eat at her house then is "just so hungry"and needs to stop at McDonalds, she lollygags in the store even when my kids are going crazy or I have to be somewhere and then guilt trips me if I don't do what she wants or can't drive her somewhere. She bitches about how I drive, makes remarks alluding to my parenting and then gets all defensive when i get pissed. Plus apparently I have not forgiven her for her lack of parenting while I was a teenager and her inabaility to help me out in quite a few situations and she still holds it against me that I did drugs as a teen and had some problems processing certain issues I had. So I should just drive her around and do what she wants b/c she put up with all my shit when I was a teenager and deal with her present inabaility to handle her own life because you know I didn't have it together when I was 16. Well, Hello woman you are in your 50's!!! I was a teenager with an undeveloped brain trying to process the sexual abuse that happened when I was 8, yeah I was a bit messed up!

wow, that was a rant. I feel a bit better. anyways, I didn't realize I had missed so many posts, i will go back and read them. I did scan through and I love the picture of H and E, starling. they are super cute.

Everr so glad things are settling, although wow, that sounds like a busy week, you will need some down time after that for sure!

Cindy can't wait to see pics!


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## Thursday Girl

cindy, thanks so much for nominating me, that's really sweet. and super funny bathroom story!

Everr, sorry about being sick.

Sue, it's amazing what a real heart to heart can do. glad to hear you had it.

Starling- parents are so fun 'eh? (see my previous post) my mom is an alcoholic who is sober for the moment. Originally she couldn't drive b/c of a DUI, now she can't drive because she has seizures. she claims her drinking didn't contribute to her health problems, but I call bullshit!

presents at grandma's. my mom does this too. she bought them a soccer net that rotted in her back yard because it had to stay at her house and I wasn't going to her house then because she was drinking. Now that she isn't drinking I do go over, but i still think presents to "stay at grandma's" are stupid. but not stupid now that I have all these kids and all these toys at my house already. LOL.

AFM- hmm my previous rant. 'um Junes talks about how the baby is in me and I am growing her and she will come out someday. We are having Christmas at my house, my mom is coming over. my sister will be in denver with my other sisters : (


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## Vegan Princess

Courtney: Hugs! You're a good daughter.  My mom can stress me out like no one else can.

So we talked up the crib matress and she was into the idea - until bed time. She just wanted to sleep in my bed. After about 20 minutes of laying there, DH got home. He'd had a rough day at work and got into bed to go to sleep for the night - so I got up to shower and eat my dinner. Got out of the shower and hear little feet running back and forth down the hall! I went in and asked what was going on and she said "I just don't want to sleep next to daddy!". So I told her that if she didn't want to sleep with daddy, she needed to sleep on her own mattress. So she went down there. I sat next to her until she fell asleep (another 20 minutes!). No idea why it took her an hour to go to sleep when she was SOOOOOO tired from her last day of preschool and their party. She was a mess all day after that. Anyway, she's sleeping on the crib mattress now. I'm sure she'll demand to come back in my bed soon after I go to sleep. Ha. At least she gave it a try and hopefully we can at least get her started there again tomorrow night and take it from there. I guess there is no rush - we have at least 10 months before we'd have another baby. But i would love some time to snuggle my husband before another kiddo gets in the middle. And before I'm big and pregnant and dying for more room in the bed. I'd buy a king bed, but all our money is going to IVF these days. Crap - if I have twins, we're financing a king bed! LOL!

Starling: Do you and DP have both kids in bed? Does it work ok?

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy: We have a twin bed next to our king. Fiona sleeps in the twin and we have the big bed for the rest of us. A twin next to a queen would accomplish the same thing. They are pretty much the same height so it's like one big bed but it feels so much better having her in her own designated spot with her own blankets and such. Fiona has been sleeping in the twin since she was about 2 all night long. Before that it was just the first part of the night. If you have twins whenever anyone asks what you need for the babies you should just tell them to contribute to the king bed fund! LOL!

Fiona is really into asking for different animals for pets. Can I have a monkey pet Mom? When we have a barn can I have a moose? She has asked for a kitty over and over. We tell her as soon as we have a bigger house she can have a kitty. "And Maeve too?" Yes we can get two kitties! Now she asks for a bigger house just about everyday! 

Getting excited for Solstice tomorrow. Fiona and Maeve are getting matching PJ's and slippers from the Solstice Fairy. We are going to make a big pot of soup for dinner and make Christmas cookies as a family (DH only has to work for a couple of hours). Then we learned that a house here in town has a light show set to music. You tune into some certain radio station and watch the show! So we are going to take her there and pray to god that she doesn't fall asleep on the way home!

Two restless babies last night. An eggnog latte is in my near future!


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... How was M's night? We do have a king now, with all of us in it. It's fine! H is on the outside, then me, then DP, then E. E's side is against the wall. We rolled up a quilt and shoved it down the crack, so she has a wee bit more room on her side, and the wall keeps her from falling out.

Mamas, can we talk about *naps*? We went snowshoeing the other day up at the local mountain, and so I planned for E to skip her nap for the first time in her life. The early part of the day was normal for her, but then as soon as her nap window passed, she morphed into a whiny, feverish, miserable, mouthy heap of nasty exhaustion. It was a battle to parent her gently for the rest of the day, and we failed on several occasions. And then the kicker was that she took JUST as long to settle for bed if not longer! Like, an hour!

Tell me how naps or no naps works for you guys lately? For Nilla and Courtney ... any wisdom here?

Do you let them drop it when they start fighting it?

I'd been eager to try a day without a nap to see if she'd go to sleep faster in the evening ... apparently not.


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## Mal85

Owyn hasn't taken a nap since... sometime in September is when we officially dropped it, I think. She does go to bed easier now, but there is a window of opportunity for bedtime and if we miss it, she'll take an hour to get to sleep. And bedtime has to be completely on her terms. She has a routine. She has to use the potty, get a cup of water, get a snack, kiss Daddy, kiss Greta, turn on her night light and climb into bed... all on her own. It can take a while! And if we skip something by accident, she has a cow about it once we're finally laying in bed. As for the afternoon, she does turn into a whiny mess a lot of the time. I have noticed though, if she does take a nap it's not until late in the afternoon. She wants to fall asleep around 4:00 everyday and that does not fly. So, I try to plan time out of the house at that time to keep her awake. Occasionally, I'll let her nap if I know we're going to have a later night anyway. If we have evening plans and I think we won't get home until well after bedtime, I'll let her doze off for an hour or so late in the afternoon and it's enough to keep her happy later at night.

I took the girls with me to my class's Christmas party this morning and it was so much fun! I loved seeing my kids and it made me realize how much I've missed them. Owyn had a great time playing games and making crafts with them. By the time we left, she felt like part of the class. It made me excited for her to start preschool next year, she did so well!

I go back to work 2 weeks from today and I'm feeling a little torn about it. It will be good to get a break from my toddler, she's been driving me a little nuts being cooped up together all the time! I'm actually feeling pretty okay about leaving Greta with a sitter, considering she'll only be with family members, that helps me feel better. Pumping is also going well, so that helps. I'm more worried about how badly our house is going to fall apart. We are in no routine yet, whatsoever. We barely keep up with things right now while I am home, I just can't imagine how we'll do it when I'm not home 3 days a week and need to work on planning when I am home. I have a feeling my house is just going to fall apart. That is the biggest thing I miss about doing daycare. It forced me to have a routine. The house stayed cleaner and we ate better since I made a point to cook a large meal every night so we could have leftovers for the daycare kids.


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## mckittre

Naps: K hasn't been a reliable napper since before he was 2! Not that he didn't need it. For a long long time, he'd only nap if he was being worn on my back or towed in the bike trailer. And we just couldn't arrange our lives to make that happen every day, especially with a new baby around who's schedule didn't quite match. So he's probably had not quite enough sleep a lot of the time, a lot of his life, really. I feel like such a bad mom saying that! Now he's finally getting to the point where he very rarely falls asleep during the day except for a poorly-timed late afternoon car ride or something. I think he finally doesn't really need a nap? We try to get him to bed by 8, doesn't always happen, and he's usually up between 8 and 9. I am so so happy we can just tuck him into his own bed and say goodnight now. It's a wonderful stage to be in.

Mal: We have 2 parents home all day, and our house is always chaos despite that!

Right now, it's chaos because we had 3 kids and 3 adults over making cookies, decorating cookies, and sledding today. We have the most excellent sledding hill in our driveway, but K is too cautious to try, and basically refuses to ever sled! Sad. I don't want to push him, but I do want more options to do active outdoors stuff rather than watch him vroom his trucks in the snow.


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## Vegan Princess

Well she slept on her mattress all night! DH put her in bed with me when he left early for work. DH slept like crap without her and I was freezing without my furnace to keep me warm. She didn't want to sleep there tonight so she is in our bed. And DH says he's happy to just keep her there - that he can't sleep without her. So I suppose if my husband is in no hurry to boot her, I won't worry about it either. I just wish we had a bigger bed. I suppose we could actually put her twin in our room so it's more flush with our bed - but I think we won't worry about it until another baby is involved. She tells me that she'll sleep in her big girl bed when she's 5. LOL.

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

*Naps *Both my kids starting dropping them about age 2 and would randomly nap from then on. We gave it up when it became a fight and also when I put them down and they would lie there awake for an hour. Dee still gets whiney and tired in the evenings about 5-6ish. But they go to bed at 730 so I think it's just the hour when they need to eat and are feeling tired. I feel tired at that time too. She naps about every 3 days or so. Seems to catch up with her.

We have had lots of vomiting here the last 2 days. They both seemed better yesterday and then more vomiting last night and this am. Also Dee has probably sprained her wrist and maybe elbow. She was playing with her brother on the couch and he lied on her arm and it got sort of bent and twisted over the side. She can move it in all directions but it hurts and it's slightly swollen. We are using the RICE method for it. I thought maybe we might have to go in for x-rays but although tender today it seems much better. I also put arnica all over it. We are having a tv day to minimize movement.

Sue glad to hear that things are better.

Ever sorry to hear that you are sick. I feel your pain.

Mal I can't believe you go back to work already that seems so soon.

Oh and we got Dee's hair cut the other day as well. It's too short since the guy straightened it to cut it and then it bounced way up but it'll grow I guess.


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## justKate

Ever, I don't know about gel in R's hair--it might be a nasty mess by the end of the day. But I can imagine the frustration!

Cindy, glad the cold is on the way out. I would LOVE for Aubs to go to sleep and stay in her bed all night, but she's gotten worse lately. We still have the toddler bed in our room, but she goes to sleep in our bed. DH puts her in hers when we go to sleep, then she gets up a couple of times a night and tries to get in bed with me. If I'm alert enough I try to get up and lay in her toddler bed with her, but its getting uncomfortable. Then she's back in bed with us again before the sun rises.







I'm hoping that its related to the temperature changes (hot one day, cold the next), but it seems like she's regressing in that department. Ah well. How is your friend's baby doing?

Naps--we do a nap religiously. Every day, after lunch, usually an hour and 45 min up to 2 hours and 15 min. She is a crazy woman without it. Even with that, she's usually asleep by 8 or 8:30.

Mal, two weeks seems really soon, but good that pumping is going well. It is stressful getting back into that routine, but once you're doing it, you'll figure it out. Or else stuff just won't get done, right? Basically house cleaning is the first thing to go for me. I'm not looking forward to going back, but I'll have to eventually. I think I can squeeze 6 months out of DH after the baby is born. Fingers crossed.

We're headed up to my parents' house tomorrow afternoon, so I'll be gone for a while. Should be interesting. I know DH is not excited at all, which of course puts extra pressure on me to keep everyone happy. Ugh. I'll try to put on my happy face and bear it. Next year anyone who wants to spend Christmas with us is going to have to come here.

Well Happy Solstice and Merry Christmas to everyone celebrating. Hope everyone stays warm and survives their families!


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: Do you have a king sized bed? Thanks for asking about my friend's baby. She is a week old and has been doing great! Her brain ultrasounds have been coming back normal and his facebook updates say she has been doing as well as they could hope, so far. Keep her in your prayers though!

Mal: Wow, I can't believe it's time for you to go back already! I'm glad you're looking forward to seeing the kids and ok with her being watched. I'm sure you will find a routine or just accept your new reality until she is a bit bigger. Don't worry about it too much - you'll figure it out when you're in the thick of it.

Nilla: Hope those kiddos are feeling better! Stomach flu is the worst!!

Well I hate to say it but Makenna is back in a diaper tonight for sleep. She wet the bed again last night. And she refused to go pee before bed tonight so she had the choice of going pee or wearing a diaper and she chose the diaper. She refused last night and that is why she had an accident. That's twice in less than a week. Uck. It wouldn't be as big a deal if I weren't rolling over into it!

We've never done a solstice celebration. But my mom arrived today and was talking about wanting new PJs so we are going to go buy new pajamas for ourselves tomorrow. Wanted to go tonight but it just didn't work out. Thanks for the suggestion ladies.  My mom loves the idea.

Cindy


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## justKate

Yep, we have a king size. DH is a big guy and doesn't like anything touching him at night. Neither do i, really! Although somehow BFing babies don't bother me.

I'll be thinking of your friend's baby. When Aubs was in the NICU she shared a nurse with a 24 weeker ( a triplet) and it was really hard to see him. I tried not to look--felt like something private that i wasn't supposed to see. Hopefully the next weeks fly by for them.


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - I'm so glad to hear your friends baby is doing well. I've been thinking about her a lot, and I will keep thinking about her!

That sucks that you had to put M back in a diaper. Going pee before bed is mandatory here. R will say no and ask for num-num, but I just say "no we have to go pee first, I'll wait in the bathroom until you're ready". He goes pee to get me to come to bed so he can have num-num lol!

Don't hate me but R and I share the most amazing king-size bed. I love that bed. It was a wedding present from my parents. My mom thought I would want a new bed after everything but I said NO WAY! Our bed is really awesome 

Starling - I think I've mentioned R's napping before but he is sort of at an in-between. He does nap at daycare (they have it scheduled from 12:30-2:30). At home with me we are usually busy and so the nap gets pushed back, often he will crash in the late afternoon when we finally get home or are in the car. I don't usually force him to stay up to a reasonable bed time because once late afternoon hits, if he hasn't napped, he is so miserable. And he will crawl onto my lap and just fall right asleep. And then he ends up staying up til 10pm. It's ok though, I don't mind him staying up late.

Kate - That's awesome that Aubs naps so well!

I agree with you about the gel - it would probably be a disaster. I'll just continue with wetting it and putting in lots of leave-in for now.

Enjoy your time away! Hope it's better than you are expecting 

Nilla - Oh no! That really sucks  It seems so many little ones have bad colds/flus right now. And a sprained wrist on top of that would be miserable  I hope everyone is feeling healthy very soon.

mckittre - I'm so excited to take R sledding this year. We are still waiting for snow though :/ It's going to be a green Christmas unfortunately!

Oh and I'm jealous about Katmai's sleeping! R still needs me to lay down with him to go to sleep. And really he doesn't usually fall asleep until I'M falling asleep (ie. I can't just be laying with him reading/on the internet, I have to actually be 'sleeping' in a dark room). There has been a few times when I've been at someone's house when I've forced him to stay in bed so I can have some alone time. That involves lots of tears and lots of repeated trips to put him back into bed and then often him getting back up because it doesn't work after over an hour of trying (although it has worked a couple times too, which is soooooo awesome!).

Mal - That sucks you have to go back to work already. But it's nice that you have family that will be helping and it's only 3 days a week. I think it will be a great little break for you. And I totally understand about the routine. I feel so much better since I started school. It is busier, and I have less time to do the home stuff, but the routine helps me to be efficient with the time I do have.

AK - Aww, that's so cute about the pets. We have a cat and R *loves* our cat. I want to get a dog in a couple years when I'm done school and settled into a job. I've always planned that for R's 5th birthday and I think that's when it will be. I'm excited about it already though. Dogs are lots of work but I think they are worth it and I think it will be fun for R to have a dog.

We didn't do much for solstice. But we are at my dad and his gf's and had a nice dinner with them and my brother last night. And R got his gift from my dad which is a leappad laptop and he absolutely loves it.

Courtney - *hugs* That sounds really hard with your mom. I don't think it would make you a bad daughter at all to set some healthy boundaries for yourself and what you can do. It's ok to say no if she's taking advantage of you.

I'm happy you won the boba!!! Yay!! You totally deserve it


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## starling&diesel

*Nilla* ... I hope your household is on the mend? And that the sprained wrist is getting better too? What a drag!

*Erin* ... I'm jealous of K's sleeping habits too! I still lie down with E, and only THIS WEEK are we working on me not cuddling her to sleep. She nursed to sleep until I weaned her a little while ago, and then she wanted me to be cuddling here, which was fine while H was a sleepy newborn, but now he's not always wanting to sleep when she is, and my dp works through naptime and bedtime, Over the last few days, I've been sitting beside her while she falls alseep. She is NOT happy about it at all. But it's getting better each time.

*Mal* ... I cannot believe that it's time for you to go back to work already! I know you'll settle into a good, workable rhythm, but it must be daunting to think about!

*Courtney* ... I hear you on the mother issues. Mine is driving me nuts. I agreed to them staying ONE NIGHT over the holidays, because I cannot stand the toxic energy they bring into our house when it's both my mom and her husband coming. I can handle my mom, no problem, but when she's with my stepdad, she turns into a mean woman. Their ruined, joyless marriage leaks onto everything. I can't stand it. She called up to 'ask' if they could stay one more night so they could have Christmas dinner with friends who also live in the city. What was I supposed to say? No, go to a hotel? So now our peaceful Christmas day will be marred by miserable house guests. I want to cry. Next year, they can stay at a friggin' hotel.

*Kate* ... We're religious about naps too, which is why it was so interesting to see what happens when we skipped that one. Interesting that our kids are all over the map when it comes to naps. I think we'll keep ours sacrosanct for the time being.

*Cindy* ... Interesting that M chose the diaper over going pee. I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation ... probably hang out in the bathroom with the routine 'paused' until she was ready to try at least. No stories, no audiobook, no jammies, no cuddles until pottying happens. E hasn't wet the bed yet, but I'm sure it will happen. That reminds me, we need a spare set of king sheets! We only have one set that we wash and then put back on. Seeing as we don't have in suite laundry, that would be a huge deal if she wet the bed in the middle of the night.

*Sue* ... I'm so glad that you and your dh are on level ground now. Rocky times are so hard on everyone. How was Solstice? And asking for various pets is cute. E really wants a pet mouse who can live in her shirt and sleep on her pillow. She had five imaginary mice that she 'carries' everywhere with her. She makes space for them at the dinner table and tucks them in each night. In her letter to Santa she asked him to bring a toy mouse for Hawksley. She's slightly obsessed with mice at the moment.

*AFM*: Our Solstice was nice. We did the candlight labyrinth at the community centre and hung out there to watch the lantern procession come through the neighbourhood. The carnival band was awesome as usual. I had a harder time keep tabs on E in the dark though, so we left earlier than I would've liked. I asked if she could stay close and hold my hand or if we needed to go home because she couldn't. She said, "My body is trying to keep up to my brain and my brain is going so fast that I have to run everywhere ... I can't promise to hold your hand, mama. I guess we should go home so I don't get lost." Funny!

We went to a homeschool preschool gathering at a local kindergym today and met a couple of new families to connect with. I find now that our kids are getting to pre-school/daycare age, we have fewer peers to play with at the parks and not so many things to do during the week with kids her age. I'll be glad to get a core community set up so as we get closer to school age, her friends will mostly be other homeschooled kids. Funny thing though, I pulled out H's Lact-Aid supplement and tucked it into my tank top and started to nurse him while I was talking to one of the other mamas, and she noticed right away and started lecturing me on how I could boost my supply and how some mom's breastfeed exclusively on one side and did I know there are herbs and meds I can take, blah, blah, blah. I said, "Yes, I'm aware of all of it. This is my second child. We did the learning curve with the first one." Irked me. Bah.

Here's a pic of me with H in a back carry ... finally getting the hang of it. And one of us snowshoeing in my kindercoat that is way too big.


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## mckittre

Nilla - hope everyone's feeling better.

Cindy - glad to hear your friend's baby is doing OK so far. We deal with potty refusals here all the time. And mostly just have to make it non-negotiable - I haven't seen a better way.

Starling - Happy solstice! I love the snowshoeing pic. We got out snowshoeing with our kids today, but cut it short after a couple hours because both kids have colds and were a little whiny.

If folks are jealous of K's sleeping, I'm jealous of easier potty learning! He's good at night, but still often has a couple small accidents per day, since he never wants to bother to get to the potty, doesn't like peeing outside, and hates reminders. We did really really hard to get him to sleep alone starting over a year ago, since we literally don't have space in our bed for 4. But I think mostly he was just ready. I worked really really hard to get him use the potty too, with a lot less success. I've come to feel I don't have a lot of control over any of it! 

Just got back from a fun "white elephant" gift exchange/potluck with half the town, and my mom just got here from Seattle. Fun times.


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## Vegan Princess

Lovely pics Starling! I'm sorry you had to leave early, but wow, what a cute reason to go. LOL. And yes, def. get a spare sheet to have just in case!! Oh and I am sorry your parents barged in on your quiet day - but I am hoping that it doesn't end up being as bad as you're fearing. Maybe it will be nice.

Erin: I love white elephant gift exchanges! My fave coffee mug is from one a few yrs ago.

So she did use the potty last night and got to sleep in big girl panties again - and around 10 pm (I fell asleep with her at 8, I was so tired) she peed again! I mean I woke up and my undies were soaking wet from it!! So, after 3 accidents in the last week, we are going back to diapers at night. I just am not in the mood to be dealing with this every night. She does not wake up - she either holds it or doesn't. She needs to be able to wake up and use the potty or something.

Merry Christmas everyone!! I'm off to a Channukah party one of my best friends is hosting at her mom's house. Can't wait to watch M open a present tonight. The kids are so much more aware this year!

I start my meds for IVF tomorrow!! Just supression meds - I start the ovarian stim meds around new years. But here we go! It's exciting.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy! Woo Hoo! This will be it Mama! I'm so excited for you.

Naps' She naps about once a week and then takes almost an hour to fall asleep. She is also a crying beast when she wakes up from them. Bedtime is so much quicker without the naps that I really cringe when she does fall asleep. It only happens in the car or stroller walks though. She no longer lies down in bed for a nap. She does sometimes fall asleep in the middle of the floor while playing though... at like 4:00. Ugh!



We had a nice Solstice and Fiona was beyond thrilled with the new pajamas. She kept saying, "I'm just so excited! I love my new jammies!" Christmas morning should be a blast!!

Starling: So great that E could articulate that to you! I'm eyeing a kinder coat myself. I never by anything for myself so I have 2 birthdays worth of money in an envelope. I was thinking of some new boots at first but now those jackets are calling my name. Review? Do you love it?!

Mal: Can't believe you will be back at work so soon. I'm so glad you have family to take Greta.

Erin: I'm jeolous of pottying and bedtime!! So there! Fiona is in undies during the day again but it is a lot of work to keep her dry. She usually has 1-2 accidents a day. We are doing some EC with Maeve in hopes for a different type of potty learning experience. And bed times... I have to lie down with her, let her nurse for about 1 minute (tops!) in a dark room and just be there next to her until she falls asleep. Papa can't help, it has to be me. I so wish I could just say good night! Hard when Maeve needs me too but she is with DH. Anyway, hoping to do something a bit differently in the coming months since DH will be gone most of the summer.

Everr: Hope you are having fun with your family. Is it stressful for you to visit your ex's family? I can't imagine?!

We have a little snow falling today! DH is taking Fiona out for a bit so I can finish wrapping presents. We are going to make some cookies and then visit the neighbors for a drop in lunch thing they do every year. Fiona is trying to open gifts under the tree now... have to run!

Merry Christmas friends!!


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## starling&diesel

What an adorable picture, *Sue*! As for the kindercoat ... do I love it? Not yet. It's way too big so I'm trying to sell it. I think if it was the proper size it would be perfect, but right now I just feel like I'm wearing my father's jacket. I really want it for next fall and winter, when H will be on my back. I think it's more helpful for back carries. I think I'll reserve my review for when I get a properly fitting one and have worn it both ways. I bet it'd be perfect for Alaska though! Our climate is a bit too mild to get full use out of it. Enjoy your white Christmas!

*Cindy* ... That's frustrating about M and the nighttime pottying. Is she upset to go back into nighttime dipes? Is she drinking more after dinner lately? Have fun at the party!

*Hello and Merry Christmas to all of you*! We're just heading up for our nap, then we're doing one last Christmas craft, then my parents come, then dinner, then service at the Unitarian Church then home to set out cookies for Santa and carrots for his reindeer. Fun! I told my mom that I was concerned about their bickering and negativity, and my mom says she's going to try to be pleasant with her husband. Hope so.


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## Thursday Girl

okay.i.am.reading.but.my.spacebar.doesn't.work.

just.wanted.to.share.the.best.way.to.keep.track.of.kids.at.night.....glowsticks!

when.we.go.camping.i.give.each.kid.their.own.color.the.big.ones.one.hangs.in

.front.one.in.back.if.there.are.a.lot.of.kids.doing.the.blowstick.thing.

each.family.has.a.color.

this.is.so.annoying


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## writerkater1

I am searching for the siblings of my baby girl. PRocrea clinic...montreal


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## Everrgreen

Hope everyone had a good Christmas!!

R came down with a stomach bug xmas eve day so that wasn't very fun. Luckily he was in a much better mood for Christmas day and he had fun and got more presents than he needs! And I already have people asking what to get him for his birthday - umm, NOTHING!

Starling - Love the pics!! I have a Kindercoat size small that I'm going to sell.. It's easier if you can find something local but if not let me know 

AK - Soo cute  I wish R would just fall asleep when he's tired. He will in the car but other than that he needs to snuggle. And I don't find it too bad visiting ex's family. There is some stuff that pisses me off, basically he lies to them about things and they believe it (things like, I won't let him see R and that he's paying cs when he isn't). I talk to his sister a lot and she gets the full story but she said she's tried to talk to the parents and they won't hear it. And they never ask me or talk about it with me so I don't bring it up. Part of me thinks they must not actually believe the things he says deep down. My ex is just a complete total mess and I try and stay out of all the crap that is going on his life. I want him to get better and be normal again but nothing I have done in the past has helped and at this point I've moved on and accepted that it is not my problem.

Cindy - Yay for starting IVF meds!! I'm so excited for you  How is your friends baby doing? Hopefully she is continuing to do well!

We are getting our first real snowfall tonight! I'm so excited  I will hopefully be able to go x-country skiing tomorrow for the first time this year.


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## mckittre

Everr - Glad R felt better for Xmas. And yay for snow! We had around 16 inches to start out with, but have gotten about a foot of powder in the past couple days, which is awesome. Had a nice snowshoe today with a friend and her kid, but K got a bit cold napping on my back. (It's been around 10-15 degrees, which is cold for here).

Sue - When I had to put both kids down (back when K still needed to have someone lie with him), I just cuddled both of them in the bed, nursing L, and letting K snuggle into my back.

Cindy - Yay for IVF meds. How exciting. Thinking good fertile thoughts for you!

Babywearing coats: I've always just used a large men's coat for babywearing. If it has a full zip, you can wear it over a kid in front or in back. Probably less elegant, but a cheaper option.

Hope everyone had great holidays! We had a good time with family, and the kids with their toys (luckily not too many). K is having an amazing amount of fun with legos and a train set, and L's favorite thing is a photo cube with all pics of her own face. Grandpa made some amazing wooden toys as well.

I don't think of my family as being very stereotyped, but even at this age, it's nearly impossible to escape gendered gifts. K gets airplanes and trains and trucks (which he loves), and L gets dolls and butterflies and things in pink or purple (despite her utter lack of preferences either way). K is the one who likes pink, actually. It seems like an impossible tide to fight.


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## starling&diesel

*Erin* and *Sue* ... I put my littles down to sleep the exact same way as Erin does. DP is usually at work for both naps and bedtimes, so I get to do it all. Lucky me!

*Ever* ... People are asking what E needs for her birthday too. Geez, nothing! We bought her a playmobil ambulance for Christmas but put it away when we saw the gifts under the tree. Not too many, but more than enough. So we already have her birthday present!

*AFM*: I told my mom on Boxing Day that we could not be hosting Christmas next year. I told her that our place is just too small. The main floor of our co-op condo is only about 400 sq ft, so it felt REALLY SMALL when there were six adults and two kids here on Christmas morning, along with everyone's unspoken baggage. It makes a great excuse to politely excuse my parents from future Christmas Day festivities. I told her we'd do an open house on Boxing Day. Gave her lots of notice. I'm not bowing to guilt next year. I really just want a quiet, simple, slow day with just the four of us. Next year!

E's favourite gift is her backpack (the one she's been asking for ages) and a set of six small beanbags that our neighbour made her.


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## Vegan Princess

Yeah, we should have saved some of her toys for her birthday for sure! Even DH said that about a few of the toys we bought. 2 of the gifts she opened were combo xmas/birthday gifts from my mom. I think maybe we'll just get her 1 small toy or something for her bday and I'm sure she'll get a few more from relatives. We always say no gifts for birthday parties. Is it bad that I think it's tacky when my friends don't say that? I'm sure once they get older they will look forward to gifts but at this point it's just overkill.

Starling: I'm glad you came up with an idea for next yr and let your mom know early. I hope your xmas was still somewhat enjoyable.

Everr: I hope R is better. Sorry he was sick!

My xmas was nice. It got off to a bad start but got better. The first thing I heard when I came downstairs was that my SIL is pregnant with her 3rd baby - had her 2nd child wear a "big brother" shirt to the crowd of family on xmas morning. THANK GOD we were not there and I heard it via phone. Bc I then had to go downstairs and give myself my first IVF shot and promptly started bawling. We've been trying for #2 since the day she gave birth to her 2nd child, 20 months ago. It was just too much for me to hear in combo with the IVF stress. I've calmed down a lot and am happy for her. It's not that I was ever not happy for her, just sad for me. And I have been dreading the announcement bc I knew it would be coming at some point soon. Anyway, still thankful to not actually have to be present for it. Other than that, xmas was very nice. And M seems to like all her toys and had to try every single thing out on xmas morning.

Had a nice visit w/my mom but she stresses me out. Now she is complaining I was too grumpy to her. I finally told her today (phone - she left yesterday) that she brings it out in me. It wasn't a good convo but I needed to get it off my chest. She always has to point out a different way I should or shoulnd't be doing something. She complained up a storm about having to fly out so early (a 7:45am flight) and about how she wants to fly this other airline next time that is more expensive and only lands at a further away airport - I am the one that bought her ticket and a later flight was way more expensive. Can't she just be grateful she got to fly up at all?? Ah family.

So I finished my series of 4 shots and am now just waiting for my period. Then I go in to the doc for an ultrasound to count how many follicles we have to work with and will start my stimulation meds to help them grow. I've barely slept for the last 3 nights. I'm guessing it's from the shots. I took the last this morning - so maybe tomorrow night I'll be able to sleep. I'm so tired by the afternoons that I am letting M watch a bit extra tv today. I also have acupuncture tonight so I'm hoping that will help me sleep. She is pretty good at helping me sleep.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... That sounds like a rough start to Christmas indeed! I know how hard it is to hear of others' pregnancies when you're struggling so much to get pregnant. When I was dealing with infertility all those years (diagnosed at 17), each pregnancy I heard about sent a painful little dagger into my soul, even before I wanted children in earnest. Many hugs to you ...

And I hear you on the mother thing. My mom brings it out in me too. It's hard. Sigh.

Interesting that you brought up t*he 'no presents' thing* ... We did that for the last couple of years for birthdays, but this year I think I'll leave any remark about presents off the invite. I was beginning to feel like I was being pretentious, like there was a sense that I didn't trust our friends to be smart about the gifts they'd choose for E. But then, we don't want or need a bunch more gifts, either. And E is more savvy to the whole gift thing this year. What does everyone else thing about the 'no presents' request? I'm curious about a straw vote. I really want to put 'no gifts please' but this year I don't feel so good about it. I feel like E is building her own friendships and I'm not sure that I want to put restrictions on them. I don't know ... rambling now.


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## Mal85

Cindy: That really would be a rough start to Christmas. That's such a hard thing to hear when you're trying so hard. I really hope IVF does it for you, keep us updated!!

We had a great Christmas here. Owyn had such a great time! DH and I got up before her on Christmas morning. She has to walk past the tree to get to our room and we didn't want to miss her seeing her Santa gifts that were sitting out, so we set the alarm early, made coffee, got cinnamon rolls in the oven and nursed the baby before she got out of bed. I'd say it was a success, she has been happily entertaining herself all week with all her loot! I did some Boxing Day shopping with my mom to get some clothes for work and ended up getting everything I needed in one store at a fantastic price!

DH gave me my birthday present, a new lens for my camera! I've been having such a great time with it, seriously what a difference a good lens makes! Yesterday was my birthday and DH had given me my gift early, so there wasn't really anything spectacular about the day. But when DH came home he had some awesome news. He finally got a promotion! He took this job (at a pay cut) almost 4 years ago because there was more potential for growth and it finally came through! It's quite a significant jump for us, so that was really the best birthday gift ever! Now, we get to seriously start talking about moving into a bigger house!

Now to start thinking about Owyn's birthday. We've been talking about what she needs... we're thinking about either a dollhouse or a drum set. Her cousin has a sweet dollhouse that she looooves playing with every time we're over there. But one of her friends has a little drum set she also loves, so we're not sure which one to get her. I think it might be a little crazy to get her a drum set when we have a little baby in the house though...


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## Everrgreen

Mal - Yay for you Dh's promotion! That's awesome  So will you start house hunting now?? That will be fun!

I love having a good camera, I wish I had more time to really get into photography. I have to replace part of the lense for my camera, I left it in the car overnight and it was really cold and it cracked. At least I'm assuming that's what happened, it was in the case still and hadn't been banged. Very annoying!

RE 'no presents' - I have never said 'no presents' but I've never had big birthday parties for R. Last year we just went out for dinner with some friends (actually I may have said no presents last year.. But my family and my best friend still got him gifts). His first birthday I had a party with just my closest friends and immediate family and there were gifts. This year will be more of a birthday party but still with mostly adult guests. I don't mind him getting gifts, I hate the waste when things don't get played with but I probably won't ever say 'no presents'.

Cindy - That would be very hard, I'm sorry. I'm glad you were able to have a nice xmas though (although that would completely annoy me if my mom said that!) I hope you're able to get some sleep.

Starling - Good for you for setting boundaries! Too many people in a small space is not fun!

So, R's B-day party is in 3 weeks! I'm having it the Saturday after his birthday. It will be mostly adults with a few young kids and I will have pizza and decorate-your-own cupcakes. Maybe a couple games, just simple stuff. I can't believe he's turning 3. Wow.


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## Vegan Princess

I'm not really planning much b-day wise yet. I'm trying to save it for my two week wait and have it as something to help occupy my mind! She keeps saying she wants 3 certain kids at her party so maybe we'll just do a lunch or something with them. Not sure yet.

So I got my period today. Today officially starts my IVF cycle! We drive the 2 hours tomorrow for my baseline appointment. Works out great bc we are going to continue driving up to Lake Tahoe and stay with some of DH's relatives that invited us up (the clinic is about half way). We'll just stay one night. Go ice skating, maybe sledding. It's a big ski area but there really isn't any snow other than man made right now. But will still be nice to get out of town. I haven't been up there since I was very little.

Happy new year to everyone!!!!  We'll get back on NYE. Probably just have fondue at home. Nothing crazy.

Mal: Great news about your DH!!! And happy birthday! 

Everr: I like the decorate your own cupcake idea. Sounds fun!

Cindy


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## Mal85

I wish we could go buy a house right away! We're going to try to save a little first and there's really nothing for sale that we're in love with in our area right now. But we are going to go talk to a realtor to get an idea of what we can afford and keep an eye out for houses in that price range. I'm hoping we'll move in the next year if we find the right place! DH was so excited he agreed to take a vacation next summer! We haven't had a real vacation since our honeymoon. We've taken a few weekend camping trips and long weekends at the lake, but we haven't left our state in almost 7 years. So, we're going to the beach! My cousins and siblings have been planning a trip to Gulf Shores and we decided to go along with them. We're renting out a huge house right on the beach and staying for a week.

I really can't believe our little ones are turning 3 already! I always get sentimental around this time. It was so special sharing all these births with you ladies and that we've essentially "watched" each other's families grow. I sometimes forget that Owyn doesn't know all your kids. Although she's seen enough pictures here and on FB, I'm sure she'd recognize them!


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## mckittre

Mal - Happy Birthday, and congratulations on your husband's promotion! That's awesome! (and as an avid photographer, I think a new lens is pretty awesome too)

Cindy - That Christmas news sounds hard. As someone who's always been in the "easily getting pregnant" side of things, I wonder how insensitive I might have been announcing my own kids, and hope I never offended anyone too much. But how exciting that you're officially starting the IVF!

RE "No presents" - I definitely say "no presents" and a lot of other folks do around here as well. That said, some people bring presents anyway. Often, those are people with older kids, so they're recycling something in their house, for the most part (or someone made K playdough last year). That doesn't bother me as much as people buying new things. And I really don't want to create any kind of obligation for people to bring stuff! We don't have a toy store in town, so people would have to think ahead/order online if they didn't have one of their own toys to recycle. I don't know how it ends up working for older kids but the "birthday party where most folks don't bring presents but a few do" works OK for toddlers and adults.

But I haven't even begun to think about K's birthday. L is having her #1 in just 3 days!! A lot of our friends will be out of town, and I don't know if anyone else will really want to come out on the 1st, right after New Year's Eve revelries. But I can't just ignore her first birthday - so we'll make a cake or pie anyway, and at least the grandmas will be here.


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy, sorry about the rough Christmas morning.

Happy Birthday Mal!! and that is great news about the promotion! definetly a good long term birthday present.

decorating cupcakes is a perfect activity for a party the kids LOVE it! Haven't begun to think about Junes Birthday since Josie's is on the 1st of Jan. well sort of. They are having a combined party, all 3 girls mid february. On their birthday they get to pick the menu for the whole day.

Christmas was good here, the kids got quite spoiled by family.

We have never done "no presents" but we have done "Pirate Jewel prefers books to toys" and "we love handy things-hand made, hand me downs..etc and once Jewel did presents for kids at a homeless shelter instead of presents for her.


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## AKislandgirl

Hi Guys! I've been meaning to check in but we have been working on our kitchen and its oozed chaos into everything! Hopefully soon it will be better!

We had a really nice mellow Christmas. Fiona loves her new kitchen and has been whipping up treats and concoctions for us all week! Maeve loves her new blankie!









Cindy: So sorry you had to hear that news on Christmas morning. It would be tough on me too. I felt like everyone around me was getting pregnant while we were trying all those years. It is so painful to hear that news sometimes. Big hugs Mama! Keep us posted on this IVF cycle. I've been thinking about you tons!

Starling: Great that you gave your mom notice now. You will get the Christmas of your dreams!

Erin: Can't believe its L's first birthday! What a fast year. Weren't you just pacing the streats and beaches of Homer trying to get labor going! 

Mal: Hope the transition back to work is smooth for all of you!

Nilla: How is D's arm? Hope everyone was over the flu in time for Christmas.

AFM:

I know that some of you are on pinterest. Well I made one of these calm down jars for Fiona and it has really worked well! I sit with her and we shake it and watch the glitter settle which settles her as well. She can get herself so worked up so its nice to have this tool. I have decided I want to make a calm down basket and fill it with this and some other things. Any ideas of what to put into it? DH though about filling a balloon with something to squeeze so I think I'll do that. Also maybe some lavender oil and water in a spritzer. I'd love to hear some other thoughts. I wonder about some sort of felt thing to show feelings-- make a mad face or a sad face. Thinking out loud here... Give me you ideas ladies!

I was pleasantly surprised that my IL's didn't send there huge box of junk like they usually do- then they called and said it's coming this week. Darn it! So now we have a box of stuff coming from then which I'll have to edit before letting Fiona dive in. We are really hoping to avoid the grandparents buying birthday gifts this year and instead asking for a month of dance class fees payed for. We'll see how it goes. If they ask for a suggestion then that is what we'll tell them we would prefer. If they don't ask we won't say anything.

I've thought a little about doing a party for Fiona but I think most likely we won't do anything. We'll do a nice diner and cake and ice cream with just us I think. May change me mind but she won't know either way. Last year we had her party with her cousins because we were visiting them a week before her birthday. I will probably hold off on birthday parties (with friends) until she is old enough to ask for one.


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## Mal85

Oh man, we need that calm down jar right now. Joe has been sick the last two days, so absolutely no help with the girls and Owyn is going a little nuts since he usually entertains her in the evenings after work. I've actually had that pinned for a while now and keep forgetting to pick up supplies to make it. We're heading to the store in just a little while, so I'm making a mental note now to get the stuff I need for that. I think she'd really dig it. I have a bunch of snow globes out right now and she's been loving watching the glitter/snow fall in those.

What do you guys think about a tea party at this age? A new place just opened in town that serves coffee/tea and desserts. I heard they also book tea parties for little girls. I thought about inviting just a few of Owyn's friends/cousins (4 at the most) to a tea party for her birthday. I just think it'd be so cute to get them all dressed up for it and make it a special day. I'm not sure if she's quite old enough to get it yet though... If not this, we talked about doing a bowling party. We went bowling once last summer and she had such a blast. I was surprised, I thought she'd be too young to really get into it, but she loved it. Hmm....


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## Thursday Girl

oh That's cool (the jar), what al3out a quiet l3ook? I love the l3alloon idea, those stress l3alls just have flour in them. Doul3le the l3alloons.

DH took Jewel to a tea parlor once, he says kids Junes age might l3e just a little too young. My friends did a tea party for the older kids once and Josie and the girls little l3rother had fun, l3ut the actual tea party place itself might e a it much.


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## justKate

My brother and SIL got Aubs a quiet book for Christmas, and she loved it. Kept her quiet through a very stuffy Catholic mass on Christmas eve--and she's never been to that sort of church service before. Not down on Catholic mass--this was stuffy by comparison to anything I've ever seen after 9 years of Catholic school. Anyway it was good. From a craft fair, I think. I put it in our "car bag" for when we're out and about. I like the idea of a quiet jar too.

Tea party would not be a good idea for us. Maybe if O is the sort to sit and take it all in, and mimic adults...but if we were looking to get out of the house for a birthday party, bowling would be a better option. Maybe you could do a tea party at home? You could get "real" tea cups from a thrift store and make tea sandwiches that the little ones would like. Decorate with paper streamers or something. I might even suggest that for my mom....she's having a b-day get together for Aubs that will be mostly adults. Hmm. Ooh, Courtney, decorating cupcakes is a great idea! You could use those mini-muffin pans.

Sue, glad you had a nice Christmas. Hopefully the kitchen renovation will be worth the wait. Could you take the unopened stuff that you edit out of the box from your ILs to a consigment shop? We got some puzzles from my cousin that are basically duplicates of what Aubs has already, so I'm going to try to consign them. I guess I could keep them to give someone else as a gift, but I don't have any candidates right now.

mckittre, wow, HAPPY BIRTHDAY (well a day early) to L!! Crazy to think that she's a year old already. And strange to think how different this December has been for you, compared to last year.

Mal, congrats to hubby on the promotion! Was it a surprise?

Cindy, big hugs to you in the wake of the Christmas announcement. I know that would suck to be thinking about all day. I'm surprised she didn't mention it in advance, to prepare you, or have your bro do it. Just not thinking about it I guess? Not sure if it helps, but with this pg I gave a heads-up to the two girls I know IRL dealing with infertility--just seems like something they might want to hear via email or phone call rather than publicly. Ugh. But on the happy side of the fertility conversation, this might be your last cycle for a while! Can't wait for IVF day.









I got a new camera this year for Christmas. I was just using my phone camera so this is a nice change. I think next year we are going to do a "no presents" rule between DH and me. Its sort of silly. Maybe we'll do stockings instead if he feels the need.

Re. presents for the little ones, UGH. Aubs has so. much. junk. Top offenders: Alphabet Pal, Zuzu Pet, and singing Elmo microphone. Both are going to the consignment shop. I won't say "no presents" but I am not above returning things, regifting, or consigning them.







If anyone asks, I suggest books or puzzles. I forgot to take the scooter we got her for Christmas up to my parents' house, so it is in the closet and will be her birthday present instead. She ended up with way too much stuff anyway. The kitchen my dad built was enough to be overwhelming. And books, kitchen dishes, art stuff, puzzles, and tons of other stuff that I'm less fond of. Thankfully its only once a year!

I think that's it for now. Not much new here. I'm on a big purging kick, so I've been organizing and shredding and setting stuff aside for donation. Anyone have any suggestions for toy storage? I don't want to spend a bunch of money on nice wood anything because it will just get wrecked during one of our many upcoming moves. I was thinking big plastic tub type things, but I sort of wanted lids, too.

New little baby-to-be seems calmer than Aubs was, but of course its early still. Can't believe how quickly time is going by!


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## Vegan Princess

A tea party is too early! My mom and I go to high tea every time she is here. There are always cute little girls in dresses - but not this little. We almost brought her this time bc I thought DH would be working. I was a bit stressed about the idea. I think she would have done ok - but I think they are different in a group - too silly. She ended up wanting to stay home with daddy anyway. Maybe next year.

I had my first ultrasound yesterday to see how many follicles we are working with. Normally I don't have many at all - that is our big obstacle. I have nine this time! Normal for my age is 12-16. 9 is actually a lot more than I expected and more than I was even praying for! We are doing a low dose protocol so it's highly doubtful all will respond. But it's nice to know we have some to work with! Is started my stimulation meds yesterday and go for my next ultrasound on Wednesday. I think egg retreival will be a week from Monday or maybe a day or 2 later!! This will go fast!

The mountains were beautiful. Short stay - didn't do much. We were going to take M ice skating this morning but she wore herself out running around like a crazy person with her cousins this morning. I think she had low blood sugar from not eating enough for breakfast too. The rink wasn't going to open for 1.5 hours so we were going to walk around town. She was just melting down! So we decided she'd hate ice skating anyway in that mood and came home. I think we'll try to go here on Monday. Anyway, now that I saw Tahoe, I can't wait to go back and get a cabin!

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

Kate_I_could_totally_tell_a_personality_difference_in_utero_that_has_held_true_after_l3irth.

Cindy_9_eggs_follicles_that's_awesome.Praying_so_hard_for_you.

It's_my_6_year_olds_l3irthday_today._not_doing_anything_special_just_foods_of_her_choice.

_DH_and_I_are_cleaning_so_they_are_watching_TV_Josie_gets_full_control_which_made_jewel_cry_since_she_can_usually_can_finagle_what_she_wants


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## Mal85

Kate, I have a couple of plastic drawer containers. The ones I have now have three drawers. I'd like to get a couple more in different sizes. We have cloth diapers in one of them and some of her books in another. We need one for her kitchen stuff, one for her Little People stuff. And we're talking about getting her a dollhouse for her birthday, so I may need another one for dollhouse accessories. The drawers are easier for Owyn to open than lids, so we like them.


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## Everrgreen

Kate - I second the plastic drawer things, although personally I use baskets. He does have one ikea storage unit which is nice. I have the attic all set up as a playroom but he doesn't like to go up there by himself, so I ended up using a couple of baskets to put a few of his toys in on the main floor. I also just got an underbed storage and lined it with green felt for all his dinosaur stuff. And I have a second one that I'm going to put sand in for a little sand table that can be stowed away when not in use.

I think I need to purge some stuff too!

Courtney - Happy Birthday to Josie! I keep meaning to mention too that I love your signature 

Cindy - YAY for 9 follicles!! I'm so excited for you, it's happening so fast! Eek!

And I'm going to be trying skating again with R probably tomorrow. The first time we went was hard. Tomorrow we are just going to work on standing on the ice. That's it. And I'm just going to wear my boots because it was too hard having skates on myself!

AK - Love the calm down jar! I'm not sure if it would work for R.. Maybe.. He usually just wants to snuggle, which is ok 

That's too bad that the box of junk is on the way  I don't see the harm in letting them know what you'd prefer ahead of time, even if they don't ask.

Mal - Your vacation plans sound awesome! And it's exciting just to start looking at houses and know it's a real plan for the next year


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## Everrgreen

I found another b-day party idea that we are going to do. I was looking for scavenger hunt ideas for younger kids and found one that is a matching colour game. I'm going to have a poster with several different colours and get each of the kids to find something in the house for the colours. Once all the colours are found everyone gets a prize (I have 5 kids coming, just kids of family/friends, age 2-4). And I'm going to do pin the tail on the donkey. I would actually like to do a pin the tail on the giraffe (R is into giraffes at the moment) but I doubt I'll be able to find a giraffe poster for that. And then the cupcake decorating and that's it! The rest of the time they can just play  And all the adults can join in on the pin the tail and cupcake decorating


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## starling&diesel

I think we're going to keep the cupcake decorating for next year, but I love, love, love the idea! I like the matching game too, *Ever*.

We're doing another food bank fundraiser for her birthday this year at the local family resource centre, which we've rented for a Sunday morning. We get a facilitator with that, and she'll set out a craft and do a circle time. Last year we had about sixty people!

We're going with the No Gift request again this year, after thinking about it. We just don't have space or need for gifts, and E is excited about collecting food and money to give to people who don't have enough to eat. I think next year we'll reign it in and just have a few small friends over. I'm thinking Tea Party or Teddy Bear Picnic theme for next year.

E has asked for a monster cake, so I have to start thinking about a plan for that. I think I can construct a pretty cool one out of a couple of sheet cakes.

For gifts, we're giving her a playmobil ambulance, and a wooden dollhouse. The ambulance was going to be for Christmas, but she had enough gifts, so we set it aside for her birthday. As for the dollhouse, I bought it from a neighbour for $30 ... score!!! It's the perfect size for our tiny house, which is great.


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... I can't wait for more IVF news!!!

*Kate* ... We have baskets, and that's worked well for us. We keep her musical stuff in one, her puppets in another, her dress up clothes in another, her little animals in another, and a couple of ones for random stuff. She likes to keep everything in it's place (that's nurture over nature for ya!).

*Courtney* ... I meant to congratulate you on the dollhouse winning the contest! Did your carrier come? Do you love it?


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## Mal85

We had a playdate yesterday with the little girl I used to baby sit. Owyn had such a great time. It was the first time she went over to L's house to play instead of meeting at the park or L playing here. She thought that was just awesome! They played so well together. It makes me a little sad that they don't to see each other everyday anymore, but warms my heart every time they come back together. There is no one in the world Owyn hugs like she hugs L, she just loves her! L's birthday is the end of this month and her mom said they are doing a bowling party for her. That was one of the things we were thinking about for Owyn's birthday. Not sure if we'll do it since she'll be going to L's party just a few weeks before her own... Of course if she just has the time of her life, we may rethink that.

Today was my first day back at work. I actually did better with it than I thought I would. I was a little teary last night just thinking about going back, but I did okay dropping them off this morning. It helps that my job keeps me so busy all day, I don't have much time to think about missing them. Pumping went... okay. I had time twice today to go pump and only got about 1.5-2 oz on each side both times. I know she ate more than that today. Not sure what I'm going to do if I can't keep up with how much she's eating while I'm gone. I obviously have enough milk, the girl is a chunk and half, I'm not worried at all about her weight gain (seriously, she's in 3-6 month clothes right now and getting very close to fitting into her 6 month stuff!). It was only day one though and I have pumped more than that in the past, so maybe it was just the stress of my first day back.


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## AKislandgirl

Mal: Hope pumping goes better in the next few weeks back. I hope you are right about it just be the stress of the first day. Fun to reconnect with friends. We ran into the little girl I used to babysit at the store the other day- huge hugs between the girls. I too wish we could get together more.

Cindy: How are you doing? Thinking about you!!

Starling: Tell me more about your home school group. I kind of want to start something like that here. What do you guys do, how often do you meet, and how many families? What is your plan for homeschooling through the preschool years?

It's fun to read about the birthday plans. But holy cow, our babies are going to be 3! I can't believe it!

Fiona has a Dr appointment tomorrow. Curious to see what her weight is these days. We've got some concerns though and I hope that we don't get blown off. DH is taking time off so that we can both be there. Here is what is going on...


She gets colds very easily and has them for weeks. We all may get it but hers lingers forever.
Her rash has been flaring up and some days is as bad as it was as a baby. She tells us its hurts too. She's not eating gluten and nothing new has been added to her diet.
She often complains that her legs hurt.
She often complains that her bottom hurts- usually before she has to poop but not always. She does not seem constipated though.
She scratches at her legs a lot although there is no visible rash.
She wakes up several times in the night more often then not.
In general I would say she is grumpy a lot and prone to tantrums. I would be too if I were so uncomfortable in my skin.

We are hoping to get a referral to an allergist but also wonder if we should be looking at other things. Any ideas?


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## mckittre

Sue - I hope you get some answers at the Dr.

Mal - glad the first day went OK. Hopefully pumping will go better once your body gets used to the new situation.

Courtney - Happy Birthday to Josie! It's neat that she and L share a birthday.

Cindy - hope all those follicles are growing nicely

Birthday parties - some fun ideas here! We'll probably just do "hang out and play" in the yurt, but I might steal an activity idea or two, depending on what kids show up. We've never done cupcake decorating, but K had a great time with cookie making and decorating before Xmas. We've tried "scavenger hunt" things a few times, but he usually just decides fairly early on to make his own decisions on what he's looking for, rather than what I set up.

Lituya had a nice low-key birthday party with 2 grandmas, one other family with kids, me, DH, and Katmai. She loved the cream cheese frosting on the carrot cake, didn't know what to think of sledding, and had fun trying to help the big boys build with blocks.

Looking for ideas from all of you: What fun activities do you do with your kids? K is pretty good at playing by himself, but when he doesn't.... I feel like everything I try to do with him just leads to whining and arguments. Then he gets into a state where he whines and screams about everything, and I get grumpy. Looking for some ideas to shake us out of our rut.

Speaking of whining and screaming, K has decided to start speaking about himself in dialogue. E.g. "Help, I screamed loudly!" or "I want water, I cried!" It's very amusing, and I have no idea where he picked it up.


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## Vegan Princess

I'm hanging in there. All stressed out today. I had my first monitoring visit and it appears only 3 are bigish and 2 are half the size. The nurse told me she thought we'd likely just get 3. But then after she spoke to the dr he told her he thought it was early and upped my medicine dose and said I could still get 5 or 6. I knew I'd likely only get a few going into it - but I got my hopes up after hearing we had more to work with. So I got pretty bummed hearing it might only be 3. I would be VERY happy with 5! So we shall see. I'm also having lining issues and that is stressing me out too. I go back on Friday.

M is on my last nerve today. I have no patience with all this stress.

Activities? We do a lot of art. Right now she loves using glitter glue to make piles of glue on a paper or glue pom poms of googly eyes, etc. That occupies her for a long time - we have many colors of glue. Or pouring glitter into glue. Stickers, bean bin, candy land, painting, playdough. Yesterday we made chocolate play dough and she used it to make cupcakes and chocolates. She just got a new playmobil train track set for xmas.

Mal: I hope pumping gets better! I'm sure stress had a lot to do with it. Can you look at a pic of greta while you pump or record her cooing sounds on your phone to listen to? My friend did that and it increased her letdown a lot.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ...







I hope all of this effort is soon a distant memory! Here are vibes for five:









*Sue*: Our homeschool preschool group is pretty new to us. We went a few times last year, but it was being held on one of my partner's days off, so we didn't go very often. It's called Young Playlearners, and we used to come together once a week with a mind to have an activity or toys for the kids to play with, and then to have a topic to talk about amongst the parents. It didn't seem to work very well, and is perhaps why we didn't go often. Now the group meets informally at a kindergym at a local community centre. That's working better. We can interact more casually, and the kids have lots of things to keep themselves busy. I think it didn't work very well when we had to pay for the room and had more structure, not surprisingly. It seems that people who are drawn to homelearning are not drawn to structure, unless they're of the school-at-home variety.

Separately, there are about four or five families in my neighbourhood that have children in the same age range as ours, and we're talking about setting up a homelearners playgroup for our kids. I'm kind of torn. I'm not sure that I want the obligation or responsibility of setting it up and running it, but on the other hand, it'd be a great way to regularly interact with other homelearning families.

There is a well-established weekly co-op also in the neighbourhood that is geared towards school aged kids. We can go to that any time. I don't know ... I'm really torn between setting up some structure and having no particular structure. I really believe that play is childrens work at this age, so perhaps I should just back off. E is very eager and interested in learning, which happens all the time at home. It seems that the co-ops are better suited for developing friendships with other kids from homelearning families so that it's a normalized thing.

The friends who want to set up a co-op of our own are all similarly minded about over-scheduling, so who knows if it will get off the ground? Between us we have five 3 year olds and four newborns, so it would be great for us to stay connected.

My idea is to meet once a week, and each week a parent provides an activity, and we all do a circle time, and other than that, be free-range. The problem is that we're all in small condos or co-op housing, so we'd be using amenity rooms or small living rooms, and I'm not sure how that would go. And I don't want to be the mom who ends up organizing everything, you know?

What are your thoughts on all this broohaha?

*Mal* ... Good luck with pumping! I bet it was the stress of being back to work. I hope it gets easier and plentiful. Is Greta happy to take a bottle while you're away or is she saving it all up for you?


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## Everrgreen

Psst Courtney - Can we please know what the wonderful excitement is seeing as we don't know you irl?? I'm so curious!!  I promise not to say anything on fb 

Cindy - Hope your appt goes well today!

Erin - Umm, activities.. Sometimes I will just sit and play with him with his toys. Or read stories to him. Or get him to help me do chores/cooking/baking. Mostly I like to have activities out of the house planned. Or go to Grandma's house for a change of scenery.

Sue - I hope the dr's appt went well. Any answers?

AFM - R is driving me NUTS. I have yelled at him way too much this week. And I spanked him (which I try not to do but it just happened in anger..). He is throwing these massive tantrums that involve attacking me, and screaming, and he's even peed his pants twice because he refused to stop tantruming even while screaming 'I HAVE TO GO PEE'. (And the common sense idea of 'stop tantruming and go to the potty' didn't work for him). Back to school Monday though, thank god.


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: I've had a frustrating week too. M is just SOOOOO whiny! It really irks me. Today has been better though. It's rough knowing I get NO breaks now too. Oh well, I'll start a swap w/my friend after IVF is over. At least I get 3 days off next week when I do bed rest! I am SO looking forward to bed rest! LOL!

Sue: How'd the visit go? I saw F is back on the chart. Yay!

AFM: 2nd appt went much better! My lining almost doubled in 2 days! So that is no longer a big concern. Phew! 2 more follicles started growing but 1 got really big. They're all spread out in size so it's tough to figure out. I think we might lose the big one in order to let more little ones catch up. I go back on Sunday. I'll probably trigger Sunday or Monday for retreival on Tuesday or Wed! Then the transfer back (god willing there is one!) would be somewhere between friday and the following monday. Then 2 days of long anticipated bed rest after that day.  Anyway, I feel a lot less stressed today than Wed!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

CIndy!: Glad you are feeling less stress. This is so exciting! I keep thinking about you!

Everr: I get super frustrated too. It is so hard sometimes! F is really demanding and whiney these days too. Sigh!

Starling: Thanks for the feedback on homeschool groups. Not sure what we will do here. Sometimes I really want the connection of other homeschool families but I so don't want to be the one in charge of setting something up either. We'll see over the next few months if I feel differently... For us our "curriculum" is just living our life so far: baking, cooking dinner, reading tons of books, going to story time, and now we will be doing a dance class. It's plenty I know but I think it's me that wants to connect with other families with the same ideas about school.

AFM: Fiona's appt went well. She is on the growth chart! 20th percentile for weight even. Took her a while to get going but she is doing well. We are going to take her to an allergist in Anchorage. They weren't open today but we should know when on Monday. Expensive to have to fly up, rent a car, get a hotel, etc... but you got to do what you've got to do. It will be interesting to learn what her other allergies are. Our Dr. told us they will likely do a prick test. That could be tough but we will deal with it. I don't know a whole lot now on what to expect from the visit.

I took F to buy ballet shoes this week. She starts her dance class tomorrow! They are so tiny and cute. Some bigger girls were doing a hip hop class and it was all I could do to tear her away from the dance studio. She was ready to go! Super cute! I'm really excited to see how she does tomorrow. I was cracking up reading the dress code on the wall of the dance studio- all hair should be neatly pulled back and out of your face! Ha! Good luck with that. There is nothing neat and tidy about F's hair ever! I do try! I know the dress code mostly applies to the advanced studio but I thought it was funny! She's been practicing her moves for days. We have a blizzard warning in effect with a prediction of a foot of snow. I want the snow but I don't want her little heart broken if class gets canceled so I'm not reminding her that it is supposed to be tomorrow.

Kate and Courtney: How are you Mama's feeling these days?

Mal: Is pumping getting easier?


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## Everrgreen

R and I have had a really good day so far. I read a quote last night (posted by LTB from our ddc, she doesn't post here anymore but I think most of us have her on fb) that talked about children acting out because of a disconnect and it totally made sense for me and R. I think it just sort of spiraled out of control with him NEEDING me so much and I was just so worn out. So I started getting more and more worn out and he started getting more and more desperate to reconnect. It was the wake up call I needed to snap out of it and give him what he needs. And by giving him what he needs he reconnects and becomes more pleasant to be around and then I don't feel as worn out. I feel so relieved.

Now I just need to remember this in a couple weeks when it happens again, because undoubtedly it will lol. But I LOVE having a good day with him. And I HATE yelling at him. I feel like such a complete b!tch after yelling. And it teaches him to yell at me. Which he does and I hate that too. I would like to try a no yell challenge. I told R our new family mantra is "We don't yell at people we love". I think that's my new years resolution 

Sue - I'm glad the appt went well! That really sucks that you have to travel so far for an allergist. I'm guessing all your attempts to figure out it out have failed.

You will have to post of pic of Fiona in her ballet stuff! So cute  R has crazy messy hair too but his isn't long. I can style it if I wet my hands and use lots of leave-in (well, until he puts his toque on or has a nap, then it's a mess again). You could always wet her hair and pull it into a pony-tail or pig-tails.

Cindy - Woohoo for a good 2nd appt! I'm so excited for you! I just can't wait until test day!!! Do you poas to find out?? How long after the transfer until you can test?? (I remember on Friends Phoebe tested later that day, but I'm thinking that's not realistic lol)


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: You POAS just like any pregnancy. LOL. Only thing is, I'm using the same trigger shot that I used for IUI and that lingered in me forever. Like 12 days. However, the line was so faint at that point that is was almost not there. So I suppose I'd know if I had a strong line at that point. But really I mostly have to wait the 2 weeks. 2 weeks from trigger. But retreival will be a day and a half after trigger and transfer will be 4.5 or 6.6 days after trigger. So I guess I don't have to wait quit as long from transfer point. At least a week. I, of course, ordered 50 cheapies! They were only $9. But my friend gave me a left over test and I'm thinking maybe it's my lucky test and I should just wait it out and use that test. We'll see. I think it's funny - my friend bought a box of 2 tests and only used one. I can't imagine not using the other. I like to watch the line get dark or just make sure. LOL. But she got pregnant on her first try so she's not obsessed or paranoid, like me. She is now 1 day overdue. 

Glad you had a better day Everr. That quote is very meaningful to me. I notice when I can force myself to get down on M's level and connect with her more on days that I am having a hard time, we both end up having a better day. I will try to keep that in mind!

M took a nap a few days ago then went to bed after 10 that night. Yesterday she got up extra early. She ended up falling asleep on the couch at 5:45 last night and slept until 8 this morning! 14 hours! And NO whining today. It's great!

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

nak

So glad that you're having a better day today, *Ever*. Share the quote?

I have one on my front door right now that speaks to me:

"To love someone is to rejoice in their existence." - Jean Vanier

*Cindy* ... I figure with IVF you can test when your embryos are 14 days old. So mine were three days old, so I tested with E after 11 days and got a glaring positive. Then tested at 11 days on the cycle that was a BFN and then held out for two full weeks with H because I couldn't stand the thought of any ambivalence. I can't wait for your BFP!!!


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## mckittre

Cindy - crossing my fingers for you! Oddly enough, I have had 2 kids without ever once using a home pregnancy test. L surprised me. With K, I was sure enough I just went ahead and made a prenatal appointment. I hope your friend's test is the lucky one!

Sue - glad Fiona is on the charts. How big is she anyway? I wonder sometimes about Katmai. I can tell he's tiny compared to all the other kids his age, but he's always seemed healthy. It is a pain to have to go all the way to Anchorage for anything. Are you guys on Kidcare? The fact that Kidcare pays for travel is a lifesaver around here.

Everr - glad you're having a better day. I think this is kind of a trying age for everyone (kids and us)

School, etc... We might send K to head start for part of next year (we're already planning another big expedition for the other part), but it's mostly because our friend who runs it is absolutely amazing with kids, and it'd be good for him to get more social time.

In the short term, I've just committed to teach aikido (non-competitive Japanese martial art) to school-aged kids once a week, and a friend of mine will watch all the littles at the same time. Which I think will be good for K, because he's not exactly shy, but is really not a very social kid either. His general tendency is to ignore other children and play with their toys.

Activities: I think my main frustration is really this: What kind of activities can I do that work with a 3 year old and a 1 year old at the same time? Moms of older kids, help! K's favorite things are all things that L destroys or can't have - legos, train track building, block building, baking, etc... If I work with him up on the table, she's furious to be left out. If we all play on the floor, there's an instant meltdown when she destroys what he's doing. So I can play with her on the floor and leave K to do his own thing on the table, but that gets limiting after awhile. I'll be all on my own for a few weeks when my dh leaves on a work trip Tuesday, so I'm scrambling to figure out how I'm going to manage it.


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## Everrgreen

Erin - I wish I had some advice for you.. I was a at a friend's house who does home daycare over the holidays and she had a 14 month old and 15 month old and they definitely didn't have any play skills in common with R. There was also a 3 year old there and R played with her. The 1 year olds kind of followed them around and inspected random toys they could get their hands on. Maybe K could choose a few of his toys that he is ok sharing? And then trade with L if she gets into a toy she shouldn't? I was also thinking you could put together a bin just for her, but I imagine she will always want what K is playing with.

Starling - Oh I love that quote you shared! I've saved it to my laptop screen  The one I was talking about it is long, it's more of an explanation posted by a mom who runs a peaceful parenting website:



The Way of the Peaceful Parent

*Often when the child has a big emotional reaction to a limit set by the parent, it's because the warm connection has broken down and hence the limit touches on the already existent feelings of loss/ rejection. Children are particularly dependent on the assurance and warmth of their connection with their parent and can feel the loss of it acutely even though they may not be able to consciously identify or express it.

Also big emotional reactions can relate to a backlog of unexpressed and unresolved emotions that need attention, listening and release - the limit is the last straw, the catalyst for those big feelings to burst to the surface and gain the love and resolution they need. ~ Genevieve*



*Cindy - Well I didn't know if you'd have a dr appt that would confirm a pregnancy before you'd have a chance to poas  Waiting a week after transfer will seem like nothing compared to the usual 2ww.. Hopefully.. Maybe it will still feel long  That's really funny that your friend only used 1 test. I tested daily for about a week! Although I'd been trying for over a year so I guess that makes it harder to accept it's real when you've waited so long.*

ETA - I don't know why that's all bolded and I can't fix it.


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## Nillarilla

I haven't caught up here yet.

Need some advice from the low supply mama's here. My cousin has a 3 month old that's refusing to nurse at all. He screams purple when she puts him to the breast. She rented a hospital grade pump to keep her milk supply. However she only gets 1/2 an ounce out per pumping session. She treated him for thrush and he still refuses. Any thoughts or suggestions ladies?


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## starling&diesel

Nilla,

Does she have PCOS or a breast reduction or any other obvious reason for low supply?

Latch okay? No tongue tie? How's his gain been so far?

Is she on any herbs? Fenugreek and blessed thistle and goats rue is what I take, three of each, three times a day.

Is she on domperidone? If she's in Canada, it's prescribed for low supply.

I take 3 x 10mg pills three times a day.

Then there is always the Lact-Aid system! A life saver for me! I love it!

nak, at the moment, so that's it for now ... good luck to her!

ps. I never produced anything with pumping


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## Everrgreen

Just wanted to chime in that I didn't have a supply issue and still couldn't pump..Has she considered GERD?


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## Nillarilla

Yeah I thought maybe GERD since he does spit up a lot. I saw him today and she showed me. It really seems like he has a nipple preference and it's the bottle. She had a lower supply with her last child but no obvious reasons for low supply. He was going along fine and then just bang all of a sudden refused. Might have been a touch of thrush but that's been treated now. He seems to be frustrated with it. Like suck, suck scream, and lots of grunting and thrashing. But the milk is coming because she can squirt it out by hand expressing. She's on fenugreek but I will look into the other supplements. I will look up the lactaid I assume it's like an SNS. She went to get one of those today and is going to use that on the breast and finger feed when he refuses and ditch the bottles for a while. She's going to try hand expressing to keep her supply up but it's so messy. Thanks for your help ladies.


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## Nillarilla

Ok I've caught up I think. Glad to hear that everyone's Christmas was good for the most part.

We got a little too much here too. So we went through their room for stuff to donate and sell. I've thought about the no presents thing for the birthdays but I'm pretty sure that would offend my family. I'm not sure what to do about the party yet either. I thought about a fancy nancy party with dress up stuff at the door for everyone to put on and practice being fancy. But Dee doesn't have any girl friends and while I'm sure most of the boys are fine with them dressing up I'm not sure about the frilly dresses and whatnot. Cupcake decorating sounds fun will have to think about that one. I need to find a venue though my house is just too small.

Sue that calm down jar looks awesome I'm going to have to make one. Play silks seem to help Dee she can use them to rub on her face or fold or lay them in configurations.

I just got back from a girl's trip to Whistler. It was fabulous. A much needed recharge and reconnect. The 7 of us have been friends for 16 years or longer and are all turning 30 this year so this was our celebration. It was so awesome I tried snowmobiling and snowshoeing for the first time. We are going to try and plan another for 2 years from now. I hope it works that we can repeat the experience. It's so rare for all of us to be in the same country and at a point when we can leave our families or work. I'm finding it hard to get back into school work though since Dee is clinging to me.

Dee's arm was better in 3 days thankfully and we kicked the puking fast.

Mal I hope the pumping is getting better and that Greta is adapting alright. Gotta go angry toddler.


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## WittyNameHere

Hi, all! I'm new to Mothering and new to the thread, but just had to sign in and share how much I loved reading through these pages. My little guy was born 2/7/2009 and can't believe he's in the last days of his toddler stage, never mind that he's not a baby anymore. My husband and I watch DS and are constantly saying, "Is that normal?" and "That CAN'T be normal," as well as "Maybe he's just weird." Thanks to your posts I now know that, yes, DS is normal. And all soon-to-be-3 yr olds are weird.


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## Vegan Princess

WittyNameHere: Glad we could put your mind at ease.  Feel free to join in our conversations. Most of us have been together since our due date club when we were pregnant, but I believe 1 or 2 joined later.

Ugh. Teeth brushing has become the world's biggest battle again. I might have to try rewards again. It was horrible and then we started using stickers. Then it has been manageable. Now she throws a 1/2 hour long temper tantrum until DH finally convinces her to let him do it. Ugh. Can't understand why it's such a big deal to her now after it has been fine for so long. Exerting her will, I suppose.

I'm off to the doc tomorrow for another check. Hoping they will tell me to trigger tomorrow! I'm ready to get this show on the road!

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Welcome Witty!

Cindy: I'm getting sooooo excited for you!

Erin: Fiona is 27 ponds and 35 inches. How big is K these days? We are on DH's insurance so no travel covered. It's going to be a spendy trip to Anchorage. BTW, do you guys have a favorite hotel to stay at when you are there? We will be there for 2 nights. I hardly ever spend time in Anchorage so I'm not sure where to stay or eat or anything. Tips welcome!

Nilla: Your trip sounds awesome. I could use a recharge!

We got a bunch of snow and now it has warmed up and started raining. The roads are a wet sloppy mess. We'll be cooped up inside today so I need to think of something creative to do to entertain F. I think I'll get our bean bin out again. We haven't had it out in months. I figure that we have a small window before we can't have it out because of Maeve.

M is rolling over already! She also scoots herself in a circle when she's on her back. Amazing to see how much she's moving! She is becoming less and less colicy and proving herself to be pretty mellow. Nobody gets her smiling and cooing more then F which is awesome! She's starting grabbing hair though and I can see that that is going to be an issue for sometime!

Oh yeah, if any of you have connections with the potty fairy please have her sprinkle a little of that fairy dust our way. This is getting so frustrating. sigh!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: I can't believe M is rolling already! Where does time go???? I think M is about 36 inches and 30 lbs. I'm sorry potty is still rough for you.

AFM: I went to the doc again this morning. I take my trigger shot tonight! Retreival is Thursday morning. My doc thinks we might get 5-6 eggs. I would be elated with 5-6! But I'm preparing myself to only get 3. They'll let me know Friday morning how many early embryos we have and then transfer will either be Sunday or Tuesday, depending on how many embryos we have and how they are looking.They've scheduled my blood pregnancy test for 13 days from retreival! So I guess it's safe to say that I will know if it worked in 15 days!! So crazy.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Eeeek!! I'm so excited for you!! How many embryos do they transfer?

Sue - Wow, I can't believe M is 3 months old!! Time flies. (I also can't believe our '09 babes are turning THREE!!!) I need to weigh/measure R, I haven't done that in a while.. And I wish I had potty advice for you 

Witty - Welcome!! Feel free to join in here  I love our little group! And I always find myself thinking 'wow, this child is so weird' LOL! I get the 'wow' feeling a lot when I look at my boy <3

Nilla - Oh your girls' trip sounds great!! My friends and I turn 30 next year and I soo want to go on a big trip. We've all talked about it but 2 of them are hoping to get pregnant within the next year so it might be tricky finding a time to go. We are doing a weekend trip to Kingston in September, that's where we went to university and this September is our 10th friendiversary 

AFM - I'm back in class and loving it! R is back in daycare and loving it! All is good


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## mckittre

Cindy - exciting! Hope you have 6 good eggs!

Witty - welcome. Feel free to join in and tell us a bit about your own weird toddler. 

Sue - I think K is about the same size as Fiona. Maybe a bit heavier and slightly shorter. Percentile-wise, that'll be lower, since he's a boy, but I guess it's probably OK. I've been putting off appointments for him and L, just because of the pain of travel (even covered!).

Potty-wise, maybe the allergist will actually help you out there? I know that my dh had a milk allergy for 20-some years that mostly expressed itself in bed wetting. I wonder sometimes if K has something similar. He's always perfect at night, but days when he has milk he does seem more likely to pee all over the floor (as opposed to just getting his underwear damp, which he still does ALL the time).

My dh just left for a 3-week work trip today. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the kids by myself for that long, or if I will end up finishing any of the computer work I need to do. Today we made a snowman (first one of the year, since all the snow up to now has been too dry), and K helped me make a bunch of food, which was much more than we needed to eat with dad gone.


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## justKate

*Witty*, welcome! Feel free to join in!

Ever--I read what LTB posted and it really clicked for us, too. I need to be more mindful of how my emotional state is affecting everyone around me, especially Aubs. I know the last three days (or weeks?) I've been pretty grumpy for whatever reason. Maybe the weather. I miss the sunshine! I'm glad you and R are happy. What sort of classes are you taking this semester?

Cindy, tomorrow is retrieval day! Yay! Re. teeth bushing, I've always had to just hold her down and do it. She fights me no matter what, so I sort of cradle her like a little baby and brush really fast. DH and I joke that its easier when she's screaming because her mouth stays open that way. Not sure its the gentlest thing, but getting teeth brushed is not an optional thing here, so I figure 3 minutes of unhappiness for her (I sing and act silly the entire time) is better than trying to reason with her for an hour while she screams and fights. I dunno.

Nilla, trip sounds awesome. Hope your friend's babe gets back on track with the BFing.

Sue, its amazing that M is growing so quickly. I hope you get some answers from the allergist for F.

AFM, not much going on. We're doing a major clean-out of all of our stuff, so I've been shredding paper for the last week and a half. We both have hoarder-type tendencies, so I've got pay stubs from 1999; DH has got birthday cards from 2002...just stuff we don't need. And of course all of our bills, pay stuff, employment stuff, medical stuff. All of it went in the shredder. Yay for purging! I also went through DD's closet and cleaned that out, sorting what was getting tossed, donated/consigned, what is just hers, what can be passed down to new babe.

Ugh, screaming toddler. Back later.


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## Everrgreen

I just found out about this little 2 year old girl who was taken from her parents and sent to live her biological dad who is a complete stranger. I just cannot even imagine. She is 27 months old. I can't imagine if R was sent away to strangers at that age. It would have been terrifying and devastating for him. He would have had no clue what happened to me. How did a judge ever agree to do this?? It makes me sick. What is wrong with this world! Here is a link to her story http://www.saveveronica.org/ She was taken away December 31st and the family is trying to get her back. Even the girl's biological mom had stayed involved in her life and wants her with the adoptive family. This little girl now has no access to anyone she knows and loves. This is just so so wrong.


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## AKislandgirl

Oh Everr, that is so sad. I can't even imagine. F is with me always. A couple of hours with a sitter here and there and overnight once- when I was in the hospital just after M was born. I've never been away form M. That poor baby. My heart is aching for that family. She must be so scared.

kate: we've been on a major decluttering kick too. It feels so good! We still have more to go but I haven't missed any of the stuff we threw away or donated. I tell myself, "is this so important that when we move I want to pay to move it?" That has helped me to let go of things I might otherwise just hold on to.

Erin: Good luck! Wish I could come pitch in to help with the kiddos! My DH is going to be gone for most of the summer... really not looking forward to it.

We are having a playdate at our house today so I'm off to tidy up just a bit before they get here...


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## Everrgreen

Sue - I know, that's what I keep thinking about. How scared must this poor girl be? I just don't get how the court would agree to this. This is such a nightmare.

Kate - Oh I have some seasonal issues too.. It must be hard for you being a cooler climate this winter compared to what you're used to. Just be happy you're not in Canada!

This semester I have 6 classes: Epidemiology, Epidemiology Research Methods, Water Quality, Housing, Food Hygiene, and Hazard Recognition. So far they all seem interesting and challenging  I'm going to be skipping Water Quality classes though because the class is split into 2 hours Monday and 1 hour Wednesday and those are the ONLY classes for those days, the other 5 classes are all Tues, Thurs, Fri. I emailed the prof and a couple students asked in class this past Monday (I went to that one) about switching things but she was not interested in changing anything. And so far she hasn't posted anything online so it's going to be tricky for me on my own (all I have are the texts). She kept saying that the Wednesday class isn't until 2pm and everyone should be out of bed by then.. As if that's the reason we're concerned! Lots of students in the program have long commutes and/or family responsibilities. It's really annoying that she's being so stubborn about it. But I can't justify the extra 4 hours/day in travel time plus the extra travel costs for just this one class. It will likely bring down my average but I'm ok with that.

Sorry for the rant 

Erin - I hope your 3 weeks on your own goes by fast!


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## Nillarilla

Sue just wanted to add that my kids can't control their pee when their allergies are acting up or they are sick. Otherwise perfectly fine. When is your allergist appointment? Oh and my ds had the scratch test. Provided you have a nice nurse that's good with kids it isn't that bad. The hard part is making them sit very still for the scratches. It hurts and itches and they can't move.


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## Everrgreen

I finally got R measured - he is 33lb and 37.5" Getting big!


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## AKislandgirl

Everr: He is getting big!

Nilla: The appointment is the end of Feb. Interesting what you and Erin said about the pee accidents. I'm anxious to know the results but not too excited about the actual appointment. Her allergist specialty is pediatrics so hopefully that means that they will be fast with the test! Also, not sure if they will do a blood draw. Yikes. Sounds intense. We plan to bring lots of distractions- lolly pops, books, toys, DVD player. The appointment is supposed to last 3 hours! I"m glad that it will be a thorough appointment though since we are flying up for it.

We usually do a bulk grocery order this time of year but I'm holding off until after her allergy test. i don't want to end up with bulk amounts of things she can't eat. I've been reading a bit about the GAPS diet too. Anyone know much about that? I think there are some other forums here on MDC with more info on this. I really want my DH to do it because I think he would feel so much better and he also has major skin problems. Fat chance but maybe I can plug it as a family thing we need to do for F. Why are we so good at taking care of our kids but suck at taking care of ourselves?!

It has been cold, windy and snowy. I'm off to trudge out to the chicken coop in hopes that they layed enough eggs for me to do our baking project this morning. They are not loving this weather and have been protesting! I refuse to buy eggs though!


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## Thursday Girl

'um wow, this hasn't been showing up on my list, I have a lot to catch up on.


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## Thursday Girl

cindy so excited!!

okay I have read through but that's a lot so pretty hard to respond to everyone.

Erin- ugh 3 weeks with DH sucks. 'um activities for a 1 and 3 year old

--shaving cream on a table they can write/play in.

--painting

--heavily supervised playdoh

trying to think back but my brain is just not pulling stuff up.

my super exciting "thing" on facebook is my twin sister is pregnant, it is still secret though, so shh! I finally get to be pregnant with a sister. Since this is my last baby (and not like Junes was my last baby, really this time, unless maybe we become wealthy) it was my last chance to be pregnant with a sister. It will be hard on our 18 month older sister who really wants a baby but her boyfriend is sick and they can't have babies b/c of the medicine he is on.

Junes, in October was 27 lbs and 34.8 tall.

pregnancy- progressing nicely. I got kicked in the ribs for the first time the other day (this pregnancy). I have been struggling with low iron which sucks and I have been way lazy because of it. I am in the third trimester now and things are coming along. This weekend hubs is going to fix the floor in the back room so while we still have a long way to go before we can use that room at least it's something. I just can't wait until we get our tax return and we can finally finish the room (this is the backroom we started working on while pregnant with Juniper) and once again live in a 3 bedroom 1200 sq ft house. it will be like living in a mansion!


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## Vegan Princess

Well ladies they got 6 eggs. 4 were mature and only ONE fertilized! I'm pretty bummed! If that 1 embie makes it to Sunday, we will transfer it. But after seeing that my other eggs didn't fertilize, I don't hold out much hope for the 1 that did. This is pretty much a disaster. I'm guessing we'll be moving on to donor egg. I don't know DH's thoughts. But I'm not in a big hurry to spend another 12-12k on trying with my own eggs again for this result! I know Starling got H from a single embie transfer. But I also think that the person who donated the embies had much better egg quality if she had 6 embryos leftover to give! I know I need to hold out hope for the 1 but it's pretty hard at this point. It's so fun having DH give me a shot in the butt every day for the next 2 weeks, knowing it's probably for naught. Sorry to be such a downer. I'm feeling pretty bummed out today!


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## starling&diesel

Cindy ...









How so very disappointing. I was so hoping for better news. I pray that your one embie flourishes and is truly your miracle baby. I wish I could come over and make you a pot of tea and be there for your tears and anguish. I'm so sorry.


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## AKislandgirl

i wish we could all be there to make you a pot of tea and cry with you. So sorry Cindy for the dissapointing news. We've got to hold out hope for your miracle baby. I'm so sorry Mama.


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - This is so disappointing.. I'm sorry. I so hope that that one little embryo will turn into your miracle baby. I'll be thinking of you, I hope you are doing ok. *hugs*

Courtney - That's exciting that you and your sister get to be pregnant together! You can do a belly pic together  I'm glad everything is going well with the pregnancy and with your house.

After R's first week back to daycare he has a nasty dry hacking cough :/ Great! I hope it passes quickly and I don't get it.

And, in 4 days he turns THREE. Crazy!


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy, I am praying that one little embryo is the one. In my insomnia I was writing a little poem about it last night, lucky for all of us I don't remember the composition.

Everr-daycare sure can be fun. I remember when Jewel went in and how often she was sick.


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## Vegan Princess

Courtney: That's funny about the poem!! I'm so happy for your sister! How fun! I dated a triplet for a long time when I was young - it was him and identical sisters. His sisters had their first babies together - and one of them actually had a set of twins! Fraternal I think though.

Everr: I can't believe R's b-day is so soon!!! I hope he is better for it. M is sick on her birthday every year.

Well I feel a bit more level headed today after a long night of rest. DH let me go back to bed after my shot in the butt this morning (and I went to bed before M last night) and he made me french toast when I got up. The lab called and said the 2 are not dividing - but that the 1 looks beautiful. So hopefully this is just the magic embie! I suppose we never really wanted twins anyway. So who knows.

Can someone remind of what activities, if any, you are doing at b-day parties? M just wants her 3 best friends over for a lunch of mac & cheese and cupcakes and to play. Sounds about right to me. But I thought it might be fun to have 1 or 2 activities.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Cindy - Hugs! I'm hoping for your magic miracle embryo!

AFM - can I trade a few degrees of cold weather with some of you who don't have enough snow? It's not that cold really, but it's been between 0 and 15 for what seems like a month with only a few days break, and that's colder than average for here (meaning the yurt is not well-enough insulated for it). I shouldn't complain because it's beautiful and clear, but I'd love a day or two of 25 degrees!.


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy, you could take them on a color hunt. (*wait how cold is it outside, do you need inside stuff?) Let me know I'll get back to that.

Junes loves to paint.

stacking blocks or cups or something

even 3 year olds like pinatas.

we usually just let them play with each other and they seem pleased enough with that. We tend to have ours at a park though.

One thing we did one year was I took a bunch of large boxes and taped them up so they could build with them and knock them down. We also have set up the dress up trunk and that is good for a LONG time.

decorating crowns- we used foam crowns , gems, ribbon, etc and used those adhesive dots so you don't have to wait for glue to dry.


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## Thursday Girl

erin- Hubs and I saw Alaska made it to the weather news b/c of your big storm. colder and more snow than usual in Anchorage and around there.

so somethign amazing happened today, I only have 2 (maybe not quite) loads of laundry left in the house to wash.


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## Mal85

Cindy-- I'm praying and praying for your miracle baby! I just know it's going to happen for you very soon.

Erin-- I'll take some of the snow! At this time last year, we were buried under 1.5 feet of snow and I loved being snowed in! I'm just one of the weird ones that likes a good blizzard every now and then. We got about an inch of snow earlier this week and actually had a little bit of cold weather. But for the most part this winter, our weather has been in the 50s-60s. Very unusual for the midwest.

Not much going on here. Hubs and I both have tomorrow off work, so yay for a long weekend! We were trying to think of something cheap or free to do as a family, but so far have come up with nothing. I'd like to take Owyn to the nearby indoor swimming pool, but I think it would be too cold in there for Greta to enjoy. Work is going pretty well. My students have been a little nuts, but we're working on it. The girls have done pretty well going to a sitter, although Greta still doesn't really lay down for naps very well and has refused the bottle a little bit.

I have a goal to organize all of Owyn's toys before her birthday. She got so much for Christmas, I really need to sort out what's needed, what can be put away for Greta to use later, and get a place for everything. I'm thinking ahead to when I have a mobile baby and Owyn has so many little pieces of play food, puzzle pieces, etc. They end up all over the floor in her room right now and that won't work once Greta starts putting things in her mouth. I think I decided to wait on the dollhouse for her until we have a bigger place. She has several big play things right now and we're just out of room. I think I'm going to go with some Magna-tiles.

Greta is doing well. I really can't believe how big she's getting already. My preemie nephew that was born the end of last March is only 14 lbs and I'm sure Greta isn't far behind him already! She goes to the doc this week, so we'll find out how big she really is. She's currently working very hard at finding her thumb. I have to swaddle her arms up for sleeping or she will wake herself up trying to get that thumb in her mouth. I'll be glad when she finally gets it down and it doesn't frustrate her so much anymore!


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - You've been in my thoughts! I hope the transfer went well and that miracle baby is burrowed in for the long haul 

As for B-day activities, we are doing: Pin the tail on the donkey, colour hunt, and decorate cupcakes. For the colour hunt I have a large basket full of little things (mostly toys, some household stuff) and a poster with different coloured circles on it, so the kids can dig through the basket and find the matches. I was going to do it more 'find something in the room/house' but I thought that would be too hard. There will only be 4-5 little ones (including R) and several adults. It should be fun. I think next year I'll have him tell me who he wants to invite and have a kids party.

Mal - glad things are going well! I hope you enjoyed your long weekend  I've been telling those who ask to just get R books or an 'experience' gift for his birthday. He has so many new toys.

Courtney - Yay for catching up on chores! Laundry is easy for me - there's just 2 of us. We have about 1-2 loads per week and I do it at my mom's house. And sometimes I just leave it there and the next time I come over it's washed and folded 

AFM - I'm in a bit of a slump again. AF is due any day so that's not helping. But I'm feeling so down. I start counselling next week which I think will be good. There is just so much stuff that I always push away because I don't have the time or energy to deal with it. I am having more and more moments where I'm on the verge of a panic attack and I have to really concentrate and breath to keep from losing it. Plus my anxiety is high, I feel wired pretty much all the time. I'm a bit of a mess I guess. And R continues to talk about Daddy. All.the.time. It's been 6 months now since I've heard from him. That's a new record for him. And yet R continues to say things like "Daddy is coming to my birthday" "Daddy loves me so much" "I'm going to be big like Daddy when I grow up". WTF? It's so hard to hear that, for many reasons.


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## Vegan Princess

Just a quick checkin from my iPad that I hate typing on. Transfer went well. We transferred the 1 embie and it was the highest quality it can be for a 3 day transfer. 8 cell grade 1 already compacting into a morula. So now I'm sill on bedrest. My body aches from laying around but it's been very nice to rest and read and have quiet. Today is last doc ordered day but nanny is coming from 9 to 2 tomorrow as well so I can take it easy an extra day. M has been at a different babysitters house the last 3 days and been having fun. She comes home so worn out that she just snuggles up to me and goes to sleep...o bedtime routine or anything. We put her diaper on after. I miss her though and I'm sure dh is quite glad I don't work since he has been dressing her and taking her to sitter, picking her up then coming home and cooking and cleaning (a little).

Cindy


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## Mal85

Cindy--





















I so hope this is it for you! I'm sending so many prayers your way!


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## starling&diesel

On my iPhone but I have to post! Wishing everything I can muster and sending it all your way, Cindy! Flourish, little ember, grow, grow, grow! Your Mama is waiting for you with open arms!


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## mckittre

Cindy - I really hope this little embryo is your miracle baby!


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Oh that sounds so great!! I am thinking of you! Enjoy your bedrest 

And AFM:

*HAPPY 3RD BIRTHDAY TO R!!! *









And some smilies chosen by R:


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## AKislandgirl

Yeah Cindy! Hoping this little embie is your one! Love you Mama!

And oh my goodness... R is three years old! Happy Birthday little man. How is it that our babies are turning three!!!

Everr: Hope you both have a great day today! I can't remember if you said you start counseling this week or next but I hope it really helps bring you some healing. Thinking about you and hoping for more peaceful days in your future!


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## Vegan Princess

Wow, happy birthday R!!!! I hope you both have a lovely and special day. And I hope he is feeling all better.


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## starling&diesel

Happy Birthday, R!!!















I can't believe he's three!

Where did the time go?

*Cindy* ... I hope your embryo is trucking along, dividing and multiplying into your miracle baby!


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## mckittre

Happy Birthday R!


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## Everrgreen

Thanks for all the birthday wishes for R! He had a good day. He was sent home from daycare Tuesday because of a bad fever and so yesterday I kept him home too. He was feeling mostly better but I didn't have class and thought an extra day home wouldn't hurt. Plus it was nice having him for his birthday  Today he went back and took cupcakes in to share. His party is Saturday. He's really excited about that! He was a bit upset yesterday though because he thought he would have his party and kept asking when various people were coming lol!

So.. I am the mom of a 3 year old. My little baby is now a real KID! Yikes :/

I guess we'll have to move over into the childhood forum soon.. But I'll let the rest of you enjoy your last days of parents of toddlers


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy I have been hoping and sending all sorts of sticky, divide, grow vibes to you and baby.

Happy Birthday R!!

Wow, we will be moving soon won't we. Junes has already started saying she is 3 and won't listen to me when I say not yet.


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## AKislandgirl

Fiona is thrilled to be turning "3 months old!" She will have none of it when I try to correct her. Stubborn little ones we have! 

How are you holding up Cindy?! Thinking about you so much!!

Who is next on the birthday list? Are we really going to move out of toddlers?! Weren't they just born?! Just ordered some cool magnetic blocks for F's birthday (Tegu blocks) They look awesome. I used gift certificates that were given to both girls for Christmas- is that wrong?







Well it's done! I'm also going to get her a swim suit because DH has declared he's going to start taking her to the pool every week. Yeah. I've got to do a little online search- thinking of doing a tankini style which seems like it would be easier for using the potty. But something about the little girl bikini suits that come up in my search irks me. I'm old fashioned I guess!


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## Thursday Girl

sue I was totally with you on the bikini thing for little girls and then. hmm my younger girls wanted bikini's and I decided as a true feminist I needed to let them dictate what they wore, what made them happy and not societies ideas about how a girl should or should not be. So now the younger 2 like to wear bikini's (but I draw the line at triangle tops) and my older girl still preferes 1 pieces or tankini style suits. which is better even for big girls b/c wet suits are a PIA to pull up.

Junes birthday is feb 8th. She is getting the camera attachment to her leapster that her aunt got her. it turns it into a video and still camera. I bought it on sale after christmas b/c she kept trying to take my camera. "um no! lol. "

She is also supposed to get a chair, it will be tall like a high chair but look like a regular chair. She's big you know AND HIGH CHAIR'S ARE FOR BABIES. well cross our fingers we can get it because she is expecting it.


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... How are you doing, my dear?

*Birthdays*: E turns three on the 31st! We're giving her the toy ambulance we bought her for Christmas and didn't give her because she had more than enough presents. I think that falls in the same category as what you did, *Sue*!

*Swimsuits*: With Courtney being in FL, less suit makes sense what with the heat. But if you're doing mostly indoor pools, *Sue*, you might look into one of the more covering sun suit types instead as they tend to keep the littles warmer for longer, or so says the lifeguards at our pool. I think that's more of an issue when they're babies, but still ...

We've got a suit for H already. He'll be doing his first lessons next month or so. Can't wait! We go swimming twice a week. Love it!


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## Vegan Princess

I think Makenna is next! Her birthday is the 29th. We're giving her a "bitty baby" from American Girls. She is OBSESSED with it in the catalog we have. She really doesn't need any more babies but she wants it so so bad. Oddly enough, their doll of the year is McKenna. They have a jewish Rebecca Rubin doll - my mom got me the miniature bc my maiden name was Rubin. I still have a the two American Girl dolls I got as a child (more like age 11 though!) and all their accessories. M is definitely too young for them though. The bitty baby is just like a regular baby doll.

I'm holding up ok. I'm hopeful but have low expectations and have been busy sending my records off to the 3 clinics I'm considering for egg donation. I feel like I have 3 great backup plans but can't decide which to go with. I even mentioned the whole idea to DH again bc I needed him to sign the records release form. He didn't argue that spending another 15k on trying with my own eggs to still not have it work sounds insane. But anyway, I'm praying hard this embie sticks and we don't need the backup plans!!

I'm stalking my chickens right now, trying to figure out who the new layer is. The one I least suspected has been in the nesting box for 1/2 hour. I don't know if she is laying her 1st egg or if she is the 2nd one that has been laying for the past week. I can see the coop from my computer desk.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

I had 2 american girl dolls from when I was a kid, plus my sisters 3 and now my girls have them. the 2 oldest I had to send away and get their limbs reattached. I thought it was neat that a couple years ago the girl of the year was Chrissa Maxwell (my maiden name is Maxwell). Honestly even the 6 year old is a bit young for them.


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## mckittre

Courtney - I don't even have a high chair or a booster for K. I'm a terrible mom that started making him climb up and stand on a big chair to eat and play (starting when his sister was born, so he could do it himself when I was busy nursing). We've forgotten to change it and he still stands up for every meal!

Cindy - I understand that it's good to be thinking of backup plans too (probably what I'd be doing if I were you), but I'm still going to be hopeful for your little miracle baby!

Swimsuits - Am I crazy to just think you might as well use swim trunks for toddlers of both genders? Right now we take L in just a swim diaper, which is basically the same as swim trunks, and I don't know why she needs her top covered once she's potty trained? Not that either of my kids care in the slightest what they wear yet.

Birthdays - I can't believe they're all turning 3 (K is on the 14th). He doesn't seem to know that birthdays are about presents (I think his sister maybe got 2 small birthday presents total), and we're trying to keep it that way. I'm sure I can't prevent the grandparents from sending something, but it would be OK if they forgot. He's just excited that we're going to have a party and make a cake "with every kind of berries in it"

AFM - One week without dh down, one to go. It's been unseasonably cold the whole time though (0-10 degrees F a lot, which is cold for this part of AK), so I'm about to run out of firewood. And I need grandma to babysit to get more, because I haven't figured out how on earth to split wood with a baby on my back, or where I can put her down to do so. But we've been doing good. Somehow I thought during my time as an official SAHM I'd magically have a cleaner and more organized life and do more crafts or something. Nope. I guess it wasn't work that was stopping me!

Do any of you have snowshoes for your kids? Wondering if there are any small enough K could wear.


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## Thursday Girl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mckittre*
> 
> Do any of you have snowshoes for your kids? Wondering if there are any small enough K could wear.


hahaha, no sorry. can't help you. lol. it was just amusing.

Junes usually stands but then we lost one of the regular chairs so she has to use the high chair b/c we don't have an extra except when Daddy doesn't come home in time for dinner, which is actually often, but then she always wants to stand up to eat at other people's house and restaurants.


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## Vegan Princess

LOL - we don't get much snow here in California either. ;-) No snowshoes here.

Erin: Good job on surviving the first week! 2 weeks is a long time without help and adult conversation. I love hearing about the things you deal with versus here. ie, trying to figure out how to chop firewood w/a baby on your back! 

M mostly sits in a normal chair now to eat. We still have the highchair out though and I ask her sit in it when she eats messy things like quinoa. But she actually does really well with rice, etc not dropping it everywhere. It's just that we bought this table when I was pregnant and I didn't think - the chairs have a tan suede type upholstry - which now has water marks that won't come off from cleaning all the food she (and DH) drop on it. Oh well, it was a cheap table.

We are going to 3 yr old b-day parties today AND tomorrow. Tis the season!

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*highchairs*: We have a Stokke Tripp Trapp, so E is in that at the table. She climbs up and down on her own and spends a lot of time at the table 'working' on projects there instead of at her kid-sized table.

*snowshoes* ... So far we've just worn the kids when we go snowshoeing, but I'll check out the mountain rental shop next time I'm up there! I bet they do make them that small.

I've been SOOOoooo sick with this stomach bug! I'm hoping today I'll start to feel more normal. So far, knock on wood, no one else in the house has it, and I hope they never do! I can't imagine what to do with a 3 yr old in underwear when it comes to explosive diarrhea. Put her back into dipes? Lord help me, I hope I don't have go figure it out. Listen to me, Universe ... Please consider my horrendous experience as one big example of taking one for the team!


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## AKislandgirl

Ah man Starling! That sounds awful!

Snowshoes: We were just talking about this... I looked at some at ll bean but I think she'll do better with them next year. I loved the picture on fb of K riding his bike in the snow. F got a balance bike for Christmas. She hasn't figured out the gliding part yet but has a great time with it.

Highchairs: I totally want one of the stokke chairs for M. F used a booster at the table until recently when she declared she was done with it. Now she just sits at the table in a regular chair. We also have a learning tower which is at the kitchen island. She stands in that to eat often (breakfast/lunch) and to do cooking projects. We also pull it up to the sink so she can wash dishes. Lately though she just wants to sit on the bar stools at the island.

DH got a call first thing the AM that his work skiff sunk in the harbor. It didn't snow last night so I'm not sure what happened. He's been gone all day dealing with that.

F had dance class this AM. Only one other little boy and the assistants showed (high school dancers). No other kids and no teacher! The 2 high shool girls did their best but I was totally annoyed. The teacher showed up as we were leaving for the 11:00 class. She said she had called us to switch to another class but we never got any call. Neither did the other family or the dance assistants Not sure who she did call! The thing that annoyed me the most was that she didn't even apologize!F had fun dancing with the big girls which is what mattered but I'm paying for this! anyway, had to vent....

Hoping the rest of the weekend perks up a bit!


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## Vegan Princess

Oh Starling, that sounds horrible! I hope you're much better now and I'll be hoping no one in your home catches it!

Sue: What does it mean his skiff sunk? Just that he had to work today or that his employment is impacted? Hoping it was just a day of inconvenience! I'd be annoyed about the class too. What was the reason? Weather? She obvioiusly still made it there! Glad F still enjoyed herself.

OMG! DH let M watch Toy Story 3 while I napped a bit. She was watching on his laptop down in our guest bedroom. He said she had been tooting a lot. She was pretty stinky when I went down to hang out with her! Come to find out a little later that she had taken a gigantic poop in her pants!! And just sat around in it!!!! It was pretty funny to me to watch DH try to deal with it (we both did - but I was laughing really hard and he had no clue what to do).We were so shocked though! I finally got her to admit that she didn't want to miss her movie so she just pooped! Normally when she is watching tv, she has a little potty in the same room. I'm still surprised. Ewwww!!!! It's not like the bathroom wasn't 10 feet from her - but it was a big potty.

No news on my end. Just watching my cheapie tests and trying to figure out if the line is getting lighter or darker and coming away no more clued in than if I weren't testing. LOL. I think I'll know pretty definitively by Wednesday though. That's really soon!

Cindy


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## mckittre

Cindy - yuck! And Wednesday is really soon. Crossing my fingers for you!

Starling - I hope you feel better soon. And I do I hope E misses it! K hasn't been sick since he stopped wearing diapers, that does sound like it would be tough to deal with.

Sue - what happened to the skiff? Is he responsible for it, or will his work deal with the damages?

Snowshoes - he probably would do better next year, especially since he's so small. But I did ask dh to look in the "big city" while he's out. I'm just getting tired of always being on the road! With dh here, we can go anywhere, because we can carry one each. But with just me, I can't carry both of them, so we're limited to terrain K can walk (or where the bike trailer or sled can go).

Brought dinner to a friend who has a newborn the other day - I'd forgotten how small they are. It makes L look enormous! And another good friend (not in town) just had a little baby girl (named Hazel) this morning.

Speaking of L, I really do have two toddlers now! She's walking (and almost running) all over the place, fast, into everything, whining, demanding, pissed off that she can't talk and can't do everything that everyone else can (use K's legos, feed wood into the fire by herself, etc...). And she had her first unfortunate encounter with the wood stove the other day too, so now she has a bandaid smack in the middle of her forehead over a small burn.

It's not the easiest time to have them both to myself. Luckily, my town is a really awesome community, so it is pretty easy to find other adults to chat with and trade kids now and then.

Here's another pic of K on his balance bike in the snow.


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## Thursday Girl

dang, i just lost everything I posted. I replied to everyone. ugg


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## Everrgreen

Courtney - I've been having problems with my posts too here. I've started copying my message before I hit submit because I kept losing them.

Erin - Wow - two toddlers! I was feeling relieved that the 'terrible twos' are ending for me but then read a friends fb status and multiple comments talking about how 3 is so much worse than 2. Not impressed! That's great that you have such a supportive community for when you're on your own  And I love your pic! I'm so lazy about getting R outside in this weather. I really should try and do better.. But it's so cold and snowy!

Cindy - Oh no - yuck! R is so good about that, he'll just yell out "Mommy pause the show!" lol. I've been thinking about you a lot. I hope you can get a nice dark solid BFP!! Do you have a doctors appt to confirm things anytime soon?

Sue - How are things with your DH's work skiff? What does this mean for him?? That really sucks :/ As for F's dance class I would be pissed about that too. Especially the fact that she didn't even apologize. That's just rude and unprofessional. I'm glad F still had fun though 

Starling - Oh no, I hope you are feeling better! I really hope the rest of your family stayed healthy. I've never put R back in diapers since he stopped wearing them last May. He has had a couple illnesses with diarrhea and I just change his underwear and pants when he has an accident. He's really good at knowing when he has to go though, even with diarrhea he makes it to the toilet most of the time.

RE snowshoes - none here, but I'm sure they make them that small. Someone on my fb has a little girl a few months younger than our babes and I saw pictures of her in downhill skiis!! So I'm sure snowshoes exist. I can't wait until R is old enough to cross-country ski, that's my favourite winter sport  Although skating is fun too, I haven't had him out yet because everytime I have a free day the weather warms up and the ice isn't safe :/

RE highchairs - R has a booster on a chair. And Cindy - I have fabric chair covers too and they are disgusting! I'm going to reupholster them soon, I found some fabric I like I'm just waiting for a good sale 

Ok I think I'm caught up for this page.. I've been checking in here from my phone which is a pain to actually type up a message on so I haven't responded!

AFM: R's party was yesterday and he had a great time! There was supposed to be 5 little ones but my cousin told me 2 days ago his daughter couldn't make it, and then 2 others who said they were coming didn't show up without even letting me know! So it was pretty much just my friends and my one friend has a 20 month old who came too. But R had fun and that's all that matters!


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: How rude of those people not to let you know! So glad R had a blast though - that is all that matters! I def think I will have to reupholster - er, or have someone else do it. LOL. Thanks for reminding me that is an option! As for confirming w/a doc - my betas are wednesday and friday! But they hold the 1st one and run it together w/the 2nd and don't call you until after the 2nd. I think I'll know either way on my own way before that though! That is 15 dpo.

Erin: 2 toddlers! eesh! My good friend has a little that same age as ours and also had her 2nd last december. He is off and running now too. I heard her tell our mutual friend the other day that she was surviving much better when he napped more and wasn't so mobile! I'm tired for you guys! Had I gotten pregnant when we started trying, I too would have a 1 yr old right now. I am actually quite thankful that we didn't end up with that spacing after watching so many of my friends. I know they will be so close bc of the short gap, but it seems so rough on the parents. I've enjoyed having this one on one time w/M. You are lucky to have your mom so close and to have your DH around most of the time. Plus you guys can handle way more insane situtaions than most. 

M is actually napping! Thank god bc she was a whining, crying, throwing her sensory bin stuff all over the living room, mess before hand. We're going to DH's college friend's house soon (of course she always falls asleep when we are supposed to leave!). They have 3 kids - almost 1, 3 and 5! I was afraid she was going to be a disaster.

Cindy


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## justKate

Ever, that was pretty rude of them not to give you a heads-up. We will be having a mostly-adults party at my parents' next month, which will have to be good enough. I'll probably send muffins or something to her preschool on her birthday, if she goes. Aubrey said she wants a "pink" party, so Grandma is working on that. I can't believe R is THREE already. So strange to say.

Nilla, I wish I could hire you to make a cake. I'm not sure what to do. I was thinking about one of those giant cupcakes, but they look a lot more difficult than a regular cake in the shape of a butterfly or something.

Cindy, anxious to hear what your lines look like over the next three days. That sucks that they hold your betas, but I guess they don't want to give false hope or something. I agree, I'd be on to donor eggs too, but I'm still holding out that this will work for you and you'll be holding a 2012 baby sooner than you think.

mckittre--two toddlers! I don't know what I would do, especially with the cold. I LOVE K on his bike. Its adorable. Re. chairs at the table, we still have a booster with a belt. The high chair we had came with a booster attachment that also works with a chair, so we're still using it. I like restraint systems, unfortunately. I'm not sure how I would convince her to eat, ever, if she wasn't basically tied to the table.

Speaking of eating, I finally weighed/measured her. 36'' exactly and 28 lbs.

Snowshoes--definitely don't know anything about that. I've been wondering whether they make "mulit-sport" helmets in infant sizes (Aubs still has a tiny head). Or is a mulit-sport helmet even any different from a bicycle helmet in infant size?

Starling, I hope everyone is feeling better.

Sue, I'd be pissed about the class too. At least F had fun. Is DH's skiff aluminum? Seals in the harbor? When DH was driving boats in CA, the seals would try to jump onto their boats to sun themselves. They were so big they could capsize boats. Hopefully it doesn't interfere too much with what he's doing.

Courtney, I hear ya on letting them choose bathing suits. I'll probably let A choose when she starts to care, but for now she's in a dorktard (term I got from another MDC mama). Basically one-piece rash guard. This year I might let her have short sleeves. 

As for me, I'm 29 weeks and feeling pretty good. We found out two great things last week: 1) we won't have to move in June after all!!! and 2) the real estate agent that helped us buy our house in TX is willing to be our property manager once we fire the company we're presently using. So the spring is looking much more peaceful.

Now Aubs is demanding to play frisbee upstairs, so I need to run....


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## Vegan Princess

I'm without Internet until tomorrow so typing on my phone. I hate to jinx myself but I am telling you ladies and no one else! My lines have been getting darker for the past few days. Darker and coming up faster! And I got a lovely line on a frer this morning!!!! 11 dpo and 12.5 past trigger. When i was still getting lines from trigger at this point they were super faint and took 10 minutes to show. And the frer was always negative!!!!!

Could this really be possible??!!! Stick baby stick!!!!! And shhhhh this is a secret for a couple more days.


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## AKislandgirl

NAK

Skiff: Still don't know why it happened. DH feels responsible since he has been the one to use it but he checked it after work on Friday and it was fine. Not sitting low in the water- just normal. They checked all the boats in the middle of the night and it was fine. At the 6:00 am check it was under water. They could not see any obvious damage when they pulled it up but apparently something was fixed on it this spring. Maybe in the cold snap we've been having a weld snapped or something. Even though it is obviously not his fault DH is stressed about it. For one thing his boss is an ass and may try to blame this on him (not fire him or anything just be a PIA). For another, its a long list in a series of things that have gone wrong on his project. He's uber stressed and I feel bad for him.

Everr: Lame people didn't let you know they couldn't make the party. I'm glad R had a great time anyway!

Cindy: How are the lines looking today?!

i'll be back to write more later- M is fussy. I think she's teething already!


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## AKislandgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess*
> 
> I'm without Internet until tomorrow so typing on my phone. I hate to jinx myself but I am telling you ladies and no one else! My lines have been getting darker for the past few days. Darker and coming up faster! And I got a lovely line on a frer this morning!!!! 11 dpo and 12.5 past trigger. When i was still getting lines from trigger at this point they were super faint and took 10 minutes to show. And the frer was always negative!!!!!
> Could this really be possible??!!! Stick baby stick!!!!! And shhhhh this is a secret for a couple more days.


OMG! I'm so freaking excited!!! This is it Mama! Oh miracle baby stick with all of your might!







I won't tell a soul!


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## Thursday Girl

oh cindy I am super crossing my finger that this quick dark line is it! so many sticky grow baby







coming at you!

Kate-Junes is 29.5 lbs, I need to pull out her carseat book b/c I can't remember if the rf limit is 30 or 32 pounds. I also have a carseat that is about to expire, I told Hubs this morning. I need to check all the other seats expiration dates as well. dorktard=funny. yeah before they care about choosing i get whatever I want and it is never a bikini, always a 2 piece.

Everr- how crappy they didn't even call!!

starling- how are you and the family? did it stay isolated to you? Hope so.

afm- amazingly I took a nap today, i can hardly remember the last one, I also learned Junes can get her own snack. she opened and ate 2 different yogurts while I slept for less than an hour. I guess at least I can cross off "teach junes to get her own snack" from my before baby comes to do list. Today she had her first spanish class, it's okay. I might have too high of standards because my older girls have an AMAZING spanish teacher at their school, but this class is free, so i can deal, plus it's something to do. Tomorrow she has her music class (another free program thanks to our counties childrens board). They also offer a carseat class that I just learned gives you a free carseat. I am not sure if I am going to take it or not. I am sure their is information I don't know about carseats, I don't want their free carseat though. I will tell my friend about it though. she used Junes old one last time, and I guess I can give her one because 2 have been handed down to me, so now I have 3, although I am not sure yet of the expiration dates on the ones I have been given. I wish they would give away the next size up b/c my friends is expired. If I could I would give her one of ours but seeing as I have to buy us a new one it's just not possible.


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## starling&diesel

nak

Oh, *Cindy* .... Stick, baby, stick! I can't wait for your beta numbers! Come on, little embie, burrow in and flourish! If H can do it, so can you!









*Carseats* ... That reminds me that I have to adjust H's shoulder straps. It's a total drag to do it on my Radian Sunshine. Needs to be done though.

*JustKate* ... Funny about the seals! Congrats on your good news By the way, I CANNOT believe that you are 29 weeks?!?!?!

*Erin* ... I love, love, love that picture of K! E still doesn't want anything to do with her balance bike. I'm starting to think that it'll be H's instead. I keep meaning to mention that E has kept herself busy for HOURS with bubble wrap. Endlessly entertaining. Not the tiny bubbles though ... the bigger ones are more fun and way more satisfying to pop.

*AFM*: So far, no one else has gotten sick! Whoo hoo! Thank you, vigorous handwashing, Clorox wipes, and rampant prayer! I hope we're in the clear. We're supposed to go to my parents' house for Robbie Burns night this week, and while I'd love an excuse not to go, I don't want anyone to get sick. And E's party is next weekend. She's asked for a blue monster cake, so I'm going to start thinking about that.


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## Mal85

Cindy: Stick, baby, stick!! I'm getting very excited for you, but trying to contain it until you know for sure!









Car seats: We've really lucked out with our car seats. The first one we bought with Owyn was kind of a piece of junk. I didn't know much about car seats back then. It broke when we lent it out to a friend a couple years ago. We bought a First Years True Fit that Owyn used for a long time and it's currently being stored for Greta to use in a couple of months. My sister gave us her Britax Marathon now that her daughter is in a booster. Owyn is using that one now. And our friends are letting us use their Chicco Keyfit 30 for Greta right now. If it wasn't so cold outside, I'd have Greta in the True Fit right now I hate lugging the infant seat around so much. But I can bundle blankets around her in it right now to keep her warm, so I'm holding off until the weather warms up.

Owyn has been a handful lately. She recently decided it's really funny when she doesn't listen to DH and me. The more upset we get with her, the more she laughs. I try to just ignore it when she starts acting like that since any reaction I give her just fuels her fire, but man she really knows how to push my buttons sometimes! I am so ready for January to be over, too. We're still playing catch up, financially, from me being on maternity leave and all the holidays, but we'll be all caught up at the end of this month and we can have some breathing room in our budget finally. First thing on the list is to purchase some more rubbermaids, drawers and hopefully some sort of shelving for Owyn's room and get to work on organizing her stuff. I'm so overwhelmed by it right now, I just keep the door closed. I don't even want to look at it. It'll be a weekend job, I'm sure and I'll feel so much better after it's done!

It's also time to start sorting through Greta's clothes again, for the third time already since she was born! This girl is a growing machine. She currently fits quite nicely in her 3-6 month clothes and is not far from fitting into her 6 month clothes. The girl will only be 12 weeks old this week! At her check up last week, she was 12 lbs. 4 oz. Still in the higher percentiles on her height and weight. It still blows my mind to see her grow so fast since Owyn was always so little.

All this organizing is making me want a new house right now! Of course, now DH is back on his kick about building a house which I know we wouldn't be able to afford for a few more years and it's really more hassle than I want with small kids. I'd rather buy something that fits our needs while our kids are growing, then build the house we'll retire in. If we built something now, we'd have more space than we need once the kids are gone.


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## Thursday Girl

Junes has been a mean bratty thing lately. she throws tantrums and hits people when she doesn't like what they did. I find my jewel and Juniper are kind of mean taunting kids. while they are compassionate when someone truly needs it they are pretty mean and sort of let me just try to piss you off because it's funny kind of kids, then poor Jo-Jo is just this sweet thing that always wants to love and hug and be sweet. it doesn't always go over well with her sisters. i am hoping Coraline is lovey too just so Jo has a little sweetness to join her.

houses, I was complaining the other day about ours. it needs all sorts of work and I find it frustrating. We can't do things like fix storage issues b/c we have to fix structural issues. Then someone gave us this magazine about fixing up your home and such and it annoys me looking at it because we can't work on aesthetics and functionality. I kind of want to throw the magazine out the window. In any case, i was complaining about our house until my sister and her boyfriend were looking for a place and I started thinking about what we pay and what mortgage/rent goes for around here, and if it weren't for this house, bought before the bubble we could afford a studio or 1 bedroom straight in the ghetto falling apart place. so yeah, this place is small, this place has a whole room we can't use and lots of stuff needs to be fixed, but over the years we've done some stuff to it, and it's cute enough and I have had my babies here. Josie got "the best nest" from the library today and it just really struck me...which is why i bring all this up when you mention houses. it has been a recent epiphany for me.

below a picture of our future master bedroom/bathroom. Hubs has been working on it. 9although the giant wall is still missing and the moths and mosquitoes in the house suck since it's just a folding door separating the main house from the back room.


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## Everrgreen

Courtney - I love our little nest too  I sometimes have a bit of mommy guilt because I grew up in a nice big house in the country and wanted that for R, but instead he gets dragged from one little apartment to another. But the apartment we have now I really love. It's in an old house and it's small but there is something about it that just feels so cozy and perfect for us. I think it's very nice that you have a handy hubby to work on your own nest 

And I hear you both on the bratty-ness! R has picked up some really irritating habits at daycare. Like calling everything stupid and yucky and thinking he's so damn funny. And he laughs more when I tell him not to do something. Which really pushes my buttons!

Starling - I'm glad the rest of the fam stayed healthy!

Sue - Oh that really sucks.. I hope his boss isn't too hard on him 

Cindy - I am so so happy to read your update. It sounds like that little one has burrowed in nice and snug  I'm keeping you in my thoughts!!

Kate - Wow - 29 weeks!! Crazy! I'm glad you don't have to move and have a better plan for you rental. You definitely don't need the added stress with a baby on the way 

Here is Super R at his party - I ordered this set from etsy ages ago but just gave it to him for his b-day. It has his name embroidered on the back, he loves it 

<snip>

R also got a microphone and it is a huge hit - he stood in the middle of the room in front of everyone and carried on FOREVER, singing and just speaking about anything and everything that came into his head. A lot of it made no sense whatsoever, but it was hilarious!

<snip>


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## justKate

Oh Cindy, the FRERs don't lie, do they?! *Deep breaths* until we have betas.... Any idea who the new layer is?

Mal, it must be strange to have a faster growing babe this time around. Aubs was 16 lbs at a year old, so it would be really weird to have one that got there much more quickly.

Re. behavior. Honestly. I try to have reasonable expectations. But the walking up to me, hitting me and saying "my just hit you" drives me batty. Or slapping my face when she's angry. Where does she get this stuff? DH is blaming pre-school, and sometimes I think about pulling her out to see if it helps, but I really don't know that its the problem. And she LOVES "school," so I don't really want to take it away. And its really only me--she's an angel at school and with the grandparents. Even playing with the girls across the street, she's really polite and shares, etc. I don't get it. Maybe I need to cruise through the GD forum again.

It probably isn't helping that I'm grumpy today. DH has managed to lose all of his underwear (he doesn't wear them except at work, so he takes 5 with him on Monday and is supposed to bring 5 back Friday evening), and of course that is somehow my fault. Today he was annoyed because Aubs and I were eating dinner when he got home, because he called and said he would be late. I figured I would make his when he got home, but apparently he would have preferred to microwave his liver than have it freshly cooked. Bleh. I don't even like liver very much. Which brings me to the next complaint....

Midwife (not the one I saw at my last appt) called and left me a voice mail saying that I'm anemic, that she's calling in an iron script to the hospital pharmacy, and that I need to google a high-iron diet and work on that. This is from the blood draw they did 18 days ago. Really? 18 days to call me? Guess its a good thing that there's nothing seriously wrong. So we had liver for dinner while I stewed over what this means in terms of baby's impending birth. Maybe I should switch care providers. I don't know. Okay, done complaining. I'm planning a VBAC but honestly I just want to be able to take my baby home before she's 3 weeks old this time. Anything more is a bonus!

Re. car seats, we're passing down Aubs True Fit to this babe...DH thinks we need car seats in both vehicles, so Aubs will keep her Blvd and get a new Radian, and new baby will have the old True Fit and a new one, eventually.

Sorry for all of the complaining! Tomorrow A goes to pre-school for 3 hours so I'll have a little break. Hopefully that will improve things!


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## mckittre

Cindy - I'm holding my breath for you!

Everr - cute party pictures! He looks like such a little ham.

Mal - my second kid is also huge compared to the first! L is so much bigger than K was at her age - born at nearly 10 lbs, for starters. She's only a little above average, but K has always been down around 5% or so, so she seems huge. I can almost pass clothes right down from one to the other now, since she can wear some 18 month stuff and he still wears a few 24 month things.

Kate - 18 days does seem like a long time not to call you! Did she even apologize about it?

Sue - I hope his boss gives your dh a break about the skiff. Doesn't sound like it was his fault.

Behavior: K is not really bratty lately (or ever - I've been lucky on that one), but super whiny and "I caaaan't do it!" about everything in an incredibly high pitched voice. It's exasperating. It almost makes me want to take away his legos, because he loves them to death, but it seems like half the time he's screaming about some complicated thing he can't quite get to work right, or something breaking, and yelling for help. Speaking of yelling for help, I really wish I could teach this kid to dress himself! I can occasionally get him to put his underwear on, but nothing else. I think that he's capable, but is utterly uninterested in bothering, and would stay in whatever undressed or half-dressed state I left him in forever.

Nest: In our recent 0 degrees snap I did get rather frustrated with the yurt, and how it wasn't well-enough insulated, and the cracks around the windows aren't well enough sealed, etc... All of those things can be fixed, it just takes time we don't always have. But overall, this tiny little home works for us, and we live in an amazing place and an amazing community with no mortgage or rent at all, so I can't really complain.


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## Thursday Girl

kate- grr on the iron thing. and really, 18 days? that's insane! when they do my iron the have the answer 5 minutes later. I have been struggling with my iron levels. I am taking floradix and trying to have a 4 hour time period where i load op on iron rich foods (right in the middle, 2 hours without calcium foods, lots of iron foods then 2 hours without calcium so my body can absorb it.) It's getting harder because of heart burn, so after the 2 hours is up i am grabbing tums or a big glass of milk, but it has helped a lot. I don't like how rude your is about it, i just think midwifes should be loving and sweet.

Erin- my middle girl Josie has a personality similiar to that of K's. It can be super annoying that helplesness or just lack of caring. Josie is so busy in her own world that directions don't matter and anytime anything goes slightly wrong she screams and cries.

as for hitting and stuff, they don't need daycare to learn it. The reason it tends to just be the momma is b/c that is the person they trust the most so their frustration gets taken out on you, BUT the fact that it isn't being taken out on OTHER people is because they do understand they are not supposed to do it. now Junes she hits us all, me, her sisters, I just asked Hubs, she doesn't hit him. go figure.

Ever- I LOVE that one of him singing so funny!! very passionate.


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## AKislandgirl

Everr: love the pictures!

Kate: That is so weird it took her so long to tell you about the iron. I took blood builder (still do) by Mega Food. Best iron supplement I've ever used. I felt a difference within a couple of days. My sisters midwife recommended it for her.

Mal: I want to move too! We have a small house which is working for us now but I dream of having my own room! Not for sleeping but for my craft stuff. Probably we will eventually have a craft room for all of us to use. I just want to be able to have a sewing table out and my other craft things accessible. Not tucked away in storage and a big PIA to pull out when I'm feeling crafty. I don't want to have to put everything away mid project just so we have a place to eat dinner! Anyway- someday! I don't know when but its fun to dream about!

Erin: it is nice that you can get help with the kids from Grandma! DH is leaving for a week in feb and I'm not sure how its going to go. Dinner and bedtime are the things I'm most worried about. I'll muddle through but it might not be pretty! I totally get feeling stuck too. DH has had my car for most of the winter (So cold and snowy here too! Not the norm!). We've therefore kept our outdoor adventures to our backyard and road for the most part. I really haven't had her out enough though. I find it hard to play queen of the snow mountain with Maeve! (I'm sure you rock at this though!)

Courtney: Cool to see the WIP on the house. I'm glad you like your nest!

Personalities: F isn't bratty but she has very intense emotions. She is quick to cry. When she is sad or frustrated you will know it! When she is in a good mood it is also very evident too though! She is very loving and nurturing to her sister which is great. She takes a lot out on me and often won't have anything to do with DH when she is in a mood. She runs from him and screaches which frustrates him to no end. He really wants to be able to comfort her. It's something we are working on- finding healthy ways to calm down and accepting help from both of us. The other day she was really exhausted and had a total meltdown at bedtime. I just had to hold her while she was thrashing about and keep telling her calmly to take deep breaths and blow them out like a horse. I kept telling her, "I know you can do this. It doesn't feel good to feel so out of control." She would tell me- I'm trying to be happy." through her tears and thrashing. I felt really bad for her. It has been a long time since her meltdowns have been that intense. As her Mama I find it exhausting and a bit sad. I don't like to see her so out of control.

AFM: I keep finding myself feeling very "floaty" and unable to focus. I know I need to eat better so its something I'm working on. I've been looking into the Primal blueprint diet a bit. My sister has been doing it for a month now and feels so much better. Lots more energy and focus. DH and I are thinking of giving it a try.

I just read that California Baby products have been reformulated. It's what we have been using for F and M for a long time but a lot of people have reported rashes and skin problems with the new formula. We deal with that enough already! What do you guys use for your littles? I may just try Dr Bronner's baby mild for soap and hair but F really needs a conditioner or her hair is (even more of!) a tangly mess. I'd love suggestions!


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## AKislandgirl

Forgot to ask...

Do any of you do read aloud chapter books with your kids? I was thinking about trying to find some chapter books I could read to Fiona. Not sure where to start... I saw someone mention The Mouse and the motorcycle by beverly Cleary on a blog I read. Any other ideas?


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... Are those lines getting darker, Mama? I cannot WAIT for your betas! I can only imagine how you must be feeling ...

*Ever* ... What an AWESOME rock star picture!

*justKate* ... 18 days? Ridiculous!

*Courtney* ... That looks like some real progress!

*Mal* ... I have to do another go through of H's clothes too. He's way bigger than E was. Having a better day today?

*Houses*: I miss having one of our own, but I don't miss the $2400 mortgage payment! I long for a yard though, and our own laundry. But we're so lucky to be in a co-op, I can't really complain. We'd be stupid to ever give it up, but watch ... it's only a matter of time, what with our itchy feet.

*Personalities* ... I would say that E is pretty easy going for the most part, happy to entertain herself, and not as happy to 'have' to play with other kids. She likes talking to adults, and has all the time in the world for them, but if another three-year-old dare ask her to play dress up or playdough, she is not impressed. I think she's pretty eager to please myself and dp, because she doesn't test us very often, unless she's exhausted and beside herself. No hitting, thankfully. I do notice that she doesn't 'respect' dp as much as me, and tends to boss her around, whereas she would never try that with me. I wonder if she sees dp as more of a peer? E does tend to be bossy when dealing with others, and is very opinionated about how things should be. She's not very adventurous on her own, but is always happy to do new things when dp or I are with her. She's very tender and caring to little ones and animals, and can spend hours involving her lovies in elaborate make-believe scenarios. And like I said, she's good at entertaining herself for ages. The only real struggle we have is that she treats our dog like a stuffy, and cannot leave her alone. She's always pestering her, and the dog goes along with it happily, which is a little annoying. I would say that E and dp are extremely close, which is very helpful. E will do anything for dp, and vice versa. I'd say her best friend of all is the dog though. They're inseparable. She's not into other little kids yet, and I kind of wonder if she ever will be.

*Chapter books*: We read a lot of them with E. Some of our favourites are: Mary Poppins, Winnie the Pooh, Moominpapas, Stuart Little, the Borrowers, Babe the Pig, Paddington Bear.


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## Vegan Princess

Thanks for the chapter book suggestions. We had to go to the library today anyway so I grabbed Babe and Paddington. I got the short plain Paddington picture book to introduce him (she already has a stuffed bear though) and then we will start the chapter book after. Cool. I'd gotten Pipi Longstocking a long time ago but she was too young. It was at least a yr ago bc it was our old house.

Interesting re: california baby. I think we have their body wash/shampoo. I used the Dr Bronners on M forever! But then it gets to be not quite right for the hair.

Starling: I'm jealous that E can play for hours by herself! Not M!!! So cute about the dog. M has her great affectionate moments with our cats but mostly she is jealous of them when they sit on my lap.

Everr: Love the pics. Especially microphone!

Erin: M tried to dress herself but mostly can't. She's great at stripping naked though! She can do socks on and sometimes shirt. She can grasp the idea of pants and panties but they are usually on wrong.

AFM: So my lines are def getting darker! I told DH tonight. Not a romantic way. When M pooped her pants the other day he said he thought it was an omen and that it was preparing us to clean poopy butts again. So I got him a new pooper scooper for the cat box (since it's his job now that I'm prego!). I tied a cute little pink card that said "baby" on in and taped the pee stick inside. I also put out some diaper wipes with a bow on them. In the card I wrote these were things to help him with all the poop that is coming into his life. Silly. But this is also the 4th time I've told him and he only have 1 kid to show for it so far. Tomorrow is my first beta. I asked the nurse to tell me my number. Normally they don't run the 1st one until you do your 2nd 2 days later - they run them together. But I am havign them done elsewhere and my will definitely be getting run tomorrow and reported back to my clinic. I told my nurse yesterday that I was getting nice positive tests and she was SO happy for me, knowing what we've gone through. So I'm hoping she'll take mercy on me and tell me. I'm not too worried about it - the lines are just where they should be for 12 dpo. I'll be more anxious to see that the number doubles on friday.

My tummy has been feeling funny for the last 2 days. I can't figure out if I ate bad 7 layer dip on sunday night or if it's the start of morning sickness. I had very little w/M (and it started later than this) and I had none with my miscarriage. I'm still thinking dip - otherwise, I'm thinking BOY! Starling - were you as sick w/E as with H? At least since we only put in 1, we know our odds of twins are pretty slim. Though I've heard that with assisted hatching (which we did do) there is a higher chance of identical twins. Still super low though.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... I'm already guessing BOY! No, I had zero sickness with E and was SO sick with H. I vote boy! So, so, so, so, so exciting!


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## mckittre

*Cindy* - I'm so excited for you! I hope this is really it! (I had very little sickness with either gender)

*Sue* - I'm sure you'll do fine on your own. Dinner, how about wearing Maeve and letting Fiona help cook? And bedtime you can always snuggle both at once (what I did when mine were littler - now I do them one at a time, usually putting L down first while K plays by himself for a bit). As for snow play, you can totally play in the snow with a baby on your back. I do it all the time, and it's actually much the best way to get L to take a nap. Maybe snow angels aren't so easy, but stomping, and snowballs, and making trails and looking for tracks... And an "adventure" can be had within a very short distance of home. Admittedly, though, I'm much better about getting K outside for a couple hours every day than I am about staving off chaos in my house, setting up crafts or other activities, teaching the kids anything at all, etc...

*chapter books* - We read a chapter of "Winnie the Pooh" to Katmai every night at bedtime, after we tuck him in.

*Personalities* - Courtney, you're right - "so busy in her own world that directions don't matter and anytime anything goes slightly wrong she screams and cries." totally describes K as well. But I have to add a bit more, because I can't leave this only with the negative bits of him! K is really good at playing by himself, and will spend a long time building with legos (though he'll get frustrated and whiny and ask for help frequently) or read himself books he's memorized, or make up elaborate games with his vehicles and trains. He's such a little boy in some ways, with his construction equipment and train engines, but then his family of train engines includes a mom "with one chimney and one nipple for the baby to nurse on," and the lego backhoe is always driving around a whole family and all their groceries. He's not shy, but he doesn't care much about other kids. In a group setting, he usually won't be talking to the kids or the adults. He'll be off in some corner absorbed in his own game with the other kids' toys. He doesn't care much about our cat and dog either. He's usually fairly helpful and good-natured, and will bring his sister toys or play chase with her sometimes, though he'll scream at her if she messes up anything he's doing. Physically cautious, but fairly capable. Definitely opinionated, and bossy with us, and very particular about what things are called, and what people should or shouldn't be doing (for instance, no one is allowed to pretend to be anything other than what they are, or call anyone anything other than what they are. Pretend is strictly for toys).


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - YAY YAY YAY!!! I'm so happy for you 

AK - I don't have a strict primal diet, but I do try and focus mainly on fresh produce and fish/poultry. I try and limit grains and eat very little sugar. My big problem is I haven't had time to exercise. I wish I had more time for that but I only have limited R-free time and need to use it for school.

Kate - Yeah that's a long time to call! I'd be annoyed.. I really hope things continue to go well though and you can have your VBAC 

RE Chapter books - never even thought about it.. Maybe we should try one too!

RE Personalities - I love hearing about all our little ones personalities! R is definitely more of an extrovert than I am, but he has his shy moments and can be slow to warm up. But he is social and wants to be where the people are. He loves playing with other kids, or standing in the middle of a room of adults being the centre of attention (as seen in the photo lol). He does not play well alone at all ever. He may play for a few minutes but he is constantly checking in with me, asking me to play with him, and if I can't play he would rather sit with me and do nothing than play alone. He is independent about some things - he goes potty by himself (sometimes he needs me to pull his pants up/down), he will get himself a snack, he tries with dressing but isn't quite there yet (usually he can undress and pick out his outfit but then I help him get dressed). He does prefer me to help with everything though. He is very silly and weird and loves making people laugh. He needs a lot of touch - hugs, snuggles - he can never seem to get enough. He is super clever, it amazes me sometimes what he knows, remembers, has picked up on. He's really good at explaining how he's feeling and talking about things. It's funny because he was late to start talking but now he is so verbal. At his daycare they tell me he is the social butterfly of the class and is very sweet and caring whenever other kids are upset. So even though he can be really annoying and push my buttons and drive me nuts... He is still pretty awesome


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## Everrgreen

2 of my close friends would like to get pregnant this year (probably start trying in the fall, so a little while yet) and between them talking about it and all of you I have some serious baby fever. Ah! I had a dream the other night that I had a little newborn. I've got about 3 years before I plan on doing it solo.. That's a long wait!! :/


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## Vegan Princess

Beta is in - 171!!!! I'm a bit shocked it's this high. 13 dpo and 10dp3dt. With my last preg (miscarriage, but not until 10 weeks), my first beta at 13 dpo was 82. Yay!!! 

Cindy


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## mckittre

Yay Cindy!!!!

It is fun to hear about all their personalities coming through. Now that L is one, it's fun to start seeing her turn into her own little person different from her brother. So far, I think she may be destined to be a little more gung-ho and a little more fiery than K (in keeping with the orange hair, I guess)

Diet: I don't know how you folks that avoid grains manage to get enough calories in. Pretty much all our meals are based on a grain of some type (often brown rice), and I find if I ever make a dinner without one then everyone is hungry later and ends up snacking on bread (homemade) all night anyway. Do you just eat lots and lots of meat and fish? I don't think I could ever give up baking (it's one of K and my favorite activities together), but I do wonder if we should maybe eat less sometimes. But I have no idea how.

Exercise: Try pulling a kid in a bike trailer or sled. I don't do it every day (though I should), but probably every other day, and it's a great workout! That said, it's 0 deg F out and blowing whiteout snow, so we're having an inside day today.


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## AKislandgirl

Yeah! Cindy I'm so so happy for you!







i think the way your told DH is a great story!

Diet: I don't know what I'm doing. I just ordered the primal blueprint from Amazon to see what I can learn from it. I do know that i eat way to many grains/carbs. I get serious sugar crashes and need to do something differently. I love baking too so I don't see myself going totally primal but I do think it would be good to shift away from the grains as the bulk of my diet. And the sugar!







We will likely have some changes to the family diet after F's allergy testing next month too. I told DH that I'm 35 and have never been on a diet and I figured I might as well see what that is all about! I would love to lose about 15 pounds but really I just want to feel more "even" throughout the day and have more energy in general.

Exercise: Erin, you are a total rock star! That is all I'm going to contribute to the exercise discussion!

Babies: After M was born and DH and I were having a lot of struggles I was pretty sure that we were done with 2. Now that we are all doing so much better and M is no longer colicy I find myself thinking about number 3. Not soon, but someday. I'm not sure if my heart will ever feel "done" with having more babies. At some point I have to let the head in there too. No idea if we will have more but I'm not giving away all the baby clothes as M grows out of them. I am giving away a lot more then I did with F but have to hold on to some of them just in case! I've been thinking a lot about adoption lately too.


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## starling&diesel

Cindy! Wonderful news!!! I can't wait to see what the numbers will be on Friday! I'm thrilled that you got the nurse to tell you! I'm so excited for you!


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - More good news! Maybe that little egg split into two? ;o)

Erin - I am no where near grain free, I just try and limit it when I can. But I am reading more about paleo diets and it interests me. I found this link for you: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/alternatives-to-grains-quinoa/#axzz1kVwUo56F

I like your exercise idea! I think I'll take R for a ride this weekend


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## Thursday Girl

cindy, that's awesome!!!

being "done" with kids- I didn't feel done after 1 or 2, but after 3 I felt done. Then we got pregnant with #4 and it was easy to open up my heart and let her in too. Now I feel like dang I could have another or 2 more BUT I won't do it in our current situation since I feel crappy enough about being so poor and having a fourth kid. Although the first trimester isn't something I really want to do again, it IS worth it and I would do it again. I don't know maybe once Coraline is here I will change my mind, it would be nice to move onto other areas of life besides parenting young kids.

diet- quickly. we eat grains, a lot of them, whole wheat and whoel grains, but yeah we like them a lot. Excercise- not nearly enough.

personalities- they are awesome, i know I mostly posted my kids bad sides but they totally have awesome sides I love and adore. but I only have a second more on the computer.


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## justKate

Cindy, hopefully the higher beta is a good sign! Now I'm anxious for Friday. Can't imagine how anxious you are! Did you say you were getting M a Bitty Baby? When you do, would you mind measuring the baby's waist, or diapers? I'm making toy diapers for Aubrey for when this baby comes, but all of her dolls are like 12" still, I think.

Diet: DH has been on a diet so we've been eating fewer carbs. He and I both seem to gain weight from them more than other foods. Basically we eat slightly more meat and a ton more veggies. We also try to just delete the carb/grain from whatever I make--so quiche with no crust, more eggs, probably more dairy than we should. Oh, and beans. I find that things like beans, potatoes, and corn sort of fill you up the same way grains do, although they do have more sugar than the other veggies (I mean the potatoes and corn).

Exercise. Ha. I bought a maternity swimsuit in October and have not gone to the pool once. Bleh. I have managed to gain only 16 lbs so far (last pg was 45+ lbs. total), so I'm doing better with something, I guess. My goal this time is 25.

Ever, I can understand craving baby before you're logically ready. I had to wait what seemed like FOREVER for DH to be sort of ready again. Now I wonder if I should have waited even longer, to get Aubs potty-independent first, etc. I dunno. Three years is a long time, but it isn't, at the same time. And you never know what can happen in three years!

So off topic, but what sort of wet bags do you ladies like? I have a small Mommy's Touch that works just fine, but I need a little bigger one and making one seems like it will be as or more expensive than buying one.


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## Thursday Girl

I have a bummi's one and a bumkins. I like the bummis better. although it would be nice if it was a bit smaller like the bumkins bag. PLUS the bumkins bag has a little pocket of mesh across the front which is nice. I feel like the bumkins bag wicks moisture out of it though. It might be because i got it used, so not sure how long it was used before or what not.


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## Mal85

Kate, Owyn has a Bitty Baby. I think it is a 15" doll. I'll try to find it today for you. We got her the Bitty Baby diaper bag for Christmas that comes with some diapers and wipes for the baby. I'll see how big they are.

I also started out gaining less with my last pregnancy. By 32 weeks, I had only gained 14 lbs. Then, my weight gain exploding. I started carrying a ton of fluid and swelled a lot. I gained another 14 lbs in those last few weeks, with my final weight gain at 27 lbs. Not bad considering I gained 42 lbs with Owyn. Right now, I'm right at my pre-pregnancy weight. But I had gained a little before getting pregnant and need to lose another 20 lbs or so. I'm not really doing anything to make that happen right now, besides nursing. I'll have to get motivated before our trip to the beach this summer!


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## AKislandgirl

kate: I use Mommy's Touch for pail liners and these Monkey Foot Design wet bags for the diaper bag. Both have been in use for 3 years. Our pail liners are delaminating a bit where they fold over the top of the pail but still perfectly functional.


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## Vegan Princess

Beta #2 was 393, up from 171.  So more than double. I do a 3rd beta a week from tomorrow. Then if that is good, u/s would be 2/13 (6 weeks and 4 days). Phew! Due date 10/5!! 

Cindy


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## Mal85

So, I kind of bummed now. I was all set to get Owyn those magna tiles for her birthday. I've seen them in a lot of preschool classrooms and they're the most popular toy with the kids. She's been playing with her blocks a lot lately, so I really think she'd love them. Apparently, they're currently out of production though. The place that makes them flooded a few months ago and they've sold out everywhere. They're supposed to be back in production in March and put them up for sale again by April, but that's too late for her birthday. I almost got them for Christmas and now I'm wishing I would have. I really can't think of anything else to get her. We don't have room for a dollhouse and that was my only other idea. I might just hold out for them. She'll get gifts from other people for her birthday. Would it be really bad to not get a gift from Mommy and Daddy because we're holding out for the thing we want to get her?

Also, weird new thing Owyn is doing. She has been sucking her thumb a lot lately. Only when she's really tired or upset about something. She has never been a thumb sucker and never took a pacifier as a baby. A couple of her cousins suck their thumbs and one of her friends sucks her thumb, so I'm sure she picked it up from them. Just weird that she's doing it now. My mom said my sister didn't start sucking her thumb until she was around 2.5 and picked it up from another kid. Then, she sucked her thumb until she was 8. So hoping this isn't a habit that will stick.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Those things are always sold out! I guess that's why. But I was just looking at them on amazon yesterday and it seemed you could order some through a few vendors??? I'd try on there! Hopefully you can get some. I liked them for a light table but M built a cool house with them at our friends' house this weekend. They're so expensive!


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## AKislandgirl

yeah Cindy!

Mal: I think our local toy store carries those. Do you want me to look if they have any in stock? You could send me paypal for them. Let me know!


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## Everrgreen

Cindy - Woohoo!

Mal - That sucks! I didn't know what those were but just looked them up. There are no retailers for them in Canada, but they seem cool! That's weird about Owyn sucking her thumb, hopefully it's just a little phase. R has never sucked his thumb or used a pacifier either, I would hate for him to start now!


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## justKate

Cindy--YAY!!!


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## Mal85

Cindy: Yay!!! I'm so freakin excited for you! Now, stick baby, stick!!!!

Sue: I would love it if you could check that out! I'd be happy to paypal you if they have it in stock. We were hoping to get the 100 piece set, not sure if a toy store would carry it, but if they do that would be awesome!

They are pretty expensive. I saw some vendors selling them on Amazon too, but since they're so hard to get right now a lot of places have hiked up their prices. Typically, the 100 piece set goes for around $100. Right now, they're like $300 through vendors on Amazon. Crazy!

Good news alert! My good friend had her baby this morning, I'm so excited for her! They had a baby girl almost exactly the same size Greta was when she was born. She had a rough start, it sounds like. She had an infection from my friend's water being ruptured for too long and was running a fever. She was also having a little trouble breathing and had lots of bruising and a broken clavicle from the birth. All those things combined landed her in the NICU for observation for a few hours today. But she is out now and doing fantastic. I got to see a pic of her and can't wait to meet her!! I've been playing around with photography and was going to do a little photo shoot with her in the few days after they came home from the hospital. Newborn shoots are fun, because they're usually so floppy and flexible, you can pose them however you want and they're cool with it. I'm not sure how to do that with her broken clavicle though. I don't want to hurt her...


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Ha - I've only ever seen the jacked up prices. I had no idea you could get a 100 piece set for $100! I think the 30 some odd piece set I was looking at was more than that! Thanks for informing me.  I'll def be waiting! Yay to your friend! Sorry baby has a broken clavicle. Poor little one.

My good friend had her 2nd baby a week ago and we went to meet him yesterday. He was 9lbs 4 oz at birth (12 days late) but still looked so teeny and precious. She was trying for a homebirth but transferred bc her blood pressure started to go up - but it turned out his heart rate really dropped and they had to do a suction birth and his shoulders also got stuck. The midwife told my friend she probably would have transferred by ambulance if this had happened at home and that he may have required a full rescucitation. So I think someone above was looking out for them having them go to the hospital anyway (she actually didn't need the blood pressure meds when they got there).

I had M at a birth center and when I was pregnant last yr, was set on having a homebirth. Now I don't know. Our new insurance covers hospital birth 100% (albeit not at the greatest hospital). After spending 12-13k out of pocket already, I think I might suck it up and go the hospital route this time to save 5k. I'd rather have the 5k to spend on preschool for M next yr or a king sized bed. Since M told me tonight that when she is all grown up she is still going to sleep with mommy and daddy. LOL. I guess I'll decide if and when I make it to the 2nd trimester. My first trimester will be lots of monitoring through my RE and OB. I was anti ultrasound w/M but I think I'll likely have 4 in the first 13 weeks this time. And after having a miscarriage, I need it to keep my stress at bay!

M had her 3 yr pictures done today. Very cute! 

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... I am totally confident that you can have the birth you envision anywhere! I'm living proof of two fabulous hospital experiences after two failed homebirths. You can do it your way, anywhere. Have a rock solid Birth Plan, and you're good to go. You're smart, you know what you want, you can advocate for yourself. Power to the mama!

*Mal* ... Poor wee newborn. Rough start! Glad to hear that she's doing well now!


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## starling&diesel




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## mckittre

Starling - cute photos!

Cindy - It's so awesome that you're at the point where you can start thinking about births.  I had both my two in hospitals with a great nurse-midwife, and it was a good experience both times, so it certainly can be. And $5k is expensive. Katmai needed oxygen after his birth and Lituya got her shoulders stuck on the way out (9lb 15oz, 15 days late). Both of those things probably could have been dealt with at home, though. But I didn't really have options. (other options are fairly logistically prohibitive here, though a friend is making the trek to a more distant birth center in a month or so).

Mal - Glad your friend's baby is doing OK now. I've never seen Magna Tiles, but if she likes to build, does she have any Legos? Katmai loves his Legos more than anything else (and they're just the old standard ones from my childhood). That said, I think it's totally fine not to get her a birthday present. We have no plans to get K one. He has enough. 

AFM - Wish for clear skies for me tomorrow! Dh is coming home, but only if it doesn't snow (little planes can't fly in the snow). And I had to share a few cute pics of my own:


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## Vegan Princess

Awww, love the littles!!!  Thanks for posting them!

The thing about the hopsital here is that there are no midwifes and you don't even get your own doc - you get whomever is working at the hospital. My regular OB just never even works there. She only does office visits. There is a hospital in network that my friend worked at that is about 15-20 minutes further (without traffic) that does use nurse midwives (my friend is a nurse midwife). But from what she has told me, the midwifes there are very medically minded and intervention pushing - not at all like homebirth midwives. Of my friends who have birthed in this hospital system, the further away hospital is preferred - but in traffic it could be a nightmare getting there so I don't know if we would even try to go there. Probably we would just labor at home as long as possible. Lately, my friends having 2nd babies there have been arriving just in time to push the kiddos out (even my friend that transferred from her homebirth was there less than 2 hours before he was born). My friend that is a midwife had some tips for me on how to have a good birth experience there when we were talking about it a while back - so if we go that route, I think I'll chat with her again. Anyway, one step at a time. I need to focus on getting through the first trimester.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Starling and Erin - Love the pics!! Everyone is getting so big!

Cindy - That's too bad about your birthing options.. But I am sure that whatever way you choose you can make it how you want. You've been through it before so that will help you to be confident about your choices! Here we have it all covered with our provincial health care - hospital birth with doctor or midwife or homebirth with midwife. We don't have birthing centres though which would be nice! I know it's a work in progress for midwives to get funding for birthing centres so maybe some day!

Funny story to share: I've been talking to R about picking out a present that he can have when he's ready to say good-bye to num-num..

Me - So maybe today we can go pick out a present, and when you're ready to say good-bye to num-num you can have the present

R - Ok! And I can have the present when I'm a big boy!

Me - Yes that's right! Are you a big boy now?

R - No not yet

Me - When will you be a big boy?

R - When I'm 24

I just started laughing.. So apparently I'll be nursing R through high school and university lol!


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## Vegan Princess

LOL Everr! That's like M saying she's going to sleep with us when she's a grown up. Tee hee!

That is awesome CA pays for homebirth too?!

M is opening pistashcios for me. She is loving it. So am I. LOL.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

loving the pictures.

Cindy I am so excited, did I post that. i can't remember what I posted. funny about the pistachio's, I think part of the reason Junes likes Mussels so much is taking them out. It's amazing how interactive food is so much more appealing.

I'm in my 31st week and things are uncomfortable at times, I'm pretty worn out as Hubs is working a lot and most days we(or I) don't see him until after the girls are in bed. The girls are amusing and annoying in turns. Juniper's speech has exploded although she is still hard to understand at times and she gets so frustrated when I am not getting what she is saying, but it is no longer deciphering 1-3 words, but whole long conversations. Yesterday was my birthday (30) so tonight my twin, her boyfriend and hubs and I are going out to eat.


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## Vegan Princess

Happy birthday Courtney!!! You're still so young!!!  I hope you had a great night out!

M's b-day is today and her party just ended. It went great! She had 3 friends over (and I like visiting with their parents). They played for a while with toys and playdough. Then I got a pin the tail on the donkey kit that had tails that needed decorating - so they colored and put stickers on. They did really well with sticking the tails on and really seemed to enjoy it. They ate mac & cheese and fruit salad, then the parents had burgers/veggie burgers. I ordered cupcakes from a favorite bakery, but bought 4 different kids of sprinkles and let them decorate them after we sang happy birthday. Most of the kids just wanted to eat them but M was sooo into the decorating. She's been playing with this baking cupcakes app on my iphone and ipad when we are trying to kill time at doctor's offices or something. She loves decorating those - so it was a real treat to do one in real life. And not having the kids do the frosting part saved a big mess! I'd bought cupcake shaped bubbles for all the kids to blow outside but we didn't get around to it, so I sent them home with them. We opened presents after everyone left. I said no gifts but they each brought something little, which was sweet (like a $10 gift card for frozen yogurt at the place M loves to go to after the children's museum).

She has been busy playing with her new bitty baby and the bed and highchair (that we got from toys r us, much more cheaply than from american girl). My MIL got her this cool "castle logix" block game where they arrnage 4 blocks and tower sticks to copy pictures of different castes. She is really good at it!

I'm pooped. Off for a nap.


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## starling&diesel

Happy Birthday, *Courtney*! You're only thirty! Wow! I feel old. I'm turning 37 next month. Am I the oldest here?

And Happy Birth Day, *Cindy*! Just imagine ... three years ago, you were bringing M into the world! Where did the time go?

Here's the *Gruffalo cake* ... we had E's birthday party today. Facepainting, songs, Valentine crafts, snacks, and lots of friends. I think there were about thirteen kids and about twenty parents. E was a bit contrary in the morning (I think we might've hyped it too much, and she was a little anxious) but warmed up once the party got started. We'll do a small family birthday on her proper birthday on Tuesday, with presents from us. She's excited about a second cake. She wants another monster cake, decorated with Smarties and marshmallow eyes, this time.


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## Vegan Princess

My half birthday was Friday - 33.5. LOL. My DH is turning 37 next month too - on the 27th. If it makes you feel any better Starling, I have the ovaries of a 40+ yr old. LOL.

Starling - you did an amazing job on that cake!!! You did it yourself, right? So cool!


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## Everrgreen

Courtney - I hope you had a great night out!!

Cindy - Happy Birthday to M!! It sounds like she had a fun party 

Starling - Good job on the cake!! And I love E's little face peeking up in the pic - she is such a cutie


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## Thursday Girl

Happy Birthing Day Cindy, it sounds like a nice little party. Can you tell me what the app is called? we are always looking for stuff for Junes since I have to drive my mom around so often.

Starling- I LOVE the gruffalo cake and E's face. Juniper also liked the cake.

calling me young, and here I finally thought now that I am in my 30's people would stop calling me young. I have sort of hidden my age in the past because all the other moms are older and they are always shocked and surprised by my age, but I could never stand to hang out with moms my age b/c honestly all the ones I knew IRL (minus1-2) were crappy moms or just so different than me I couldn't relate. Now my friends my age are finally starting to have kids so it's nice, but they are all just having their first or just getting pregnant for the most part and here I am finishing up with #4. I guess when people see me with just Junes and pregnant then I seem the proper age. I'm kidding though, I don't mind. I used to, but now I don't care b/c I know I am a pretty good mom and my age doesn't actually matter.


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## Mal85

Happy birthday to M!! Sounds like she had a great party. And Esme too! I love that cake, Starling. So adorable! And E's face in the picture is just perfect!

Owyn went to her friend's birthday party yesterday. It was a bowling party and she had SO much fun! They had the bumpers up and even had a little ramp the younger ones could put their ball on and shove it down the lane. Owyn thought she was too big to use the ramp though. Now, DH is set on having a bowling party for her, so we may be doing that. If we do, we'll just to one big party for both sides of the family and her friends rather than having separate parties for her like we've done in the past.

My sister is taking her daughter to the American Girl store next weekend and invited us along. I don't think there's really anything Owyn would want for her Bitty Baby right now, but we may go just to tag along. If Owyn really falls in love with something, it'd at least be an idea for her birthday... if we can't get the Magnatiles anyway.


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## Vegan Princess

I want to go to an american girl store! Just for the novelty of it. But there aren't any near us. Probably for the best.

Bowling sounds so cute! I need bumbers when I bowl though. I'm a horrible bowler. Or at least I was in high school - the last time I tried.

I checked craigslist for magnatiles - $225 for a 100 piece set (new). Only 1 set for sale. So I guess that isn't a good option either right now.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Mal: The toy store opens again on Tuesday so I'll give the a call.

I'll pop on tomorrow - M's not having it!


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## AKislandgirl

Courtney: Hope you and your sister had a great night out for your birthdays!

Loving the pictures Starling and Erin! That cake is fabulous! Glad that Esmé had a great party!

Happy late birthday to McKenna! It sounds like you had a lovely party!

AFU: F's birthday is on Wednesday. We aren't having a party and now I'm beginning to feel badly about it. She has been remembering her party last year with a whole slew of cousins (we were visiting my family) and we are just doing something with us this year. We'll make a cake together and she will help me decorate it and make a favorite dinner and open her gifts. Hopefully she will be happy with the day. She keeps talking about her "party" though and I hope she's not disappointed that it is just us. Honestly, we don't really have people to invite to a party here...

We are getting dumped on with snow again. It has warmed up though. The last few days we have had temps in the single digits to negative temps. Now its about 30 degrees and snowing hard. We got about 8 inches last night and it's still coming down.

Question of the day: what are some of your go-to weeknight meals? We are in a rut! I need some new ideas.


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: I'm vegetarian, but here are some of my go to meals: taco night; a gigantic salad with beans and hard boiled egg, etc; soup and crusty bread (my favorite is a lentil soup w/dumplings - no bread with that one). Honey baked lentils with a steamed veggie; chickpea cutlets (they are like chicken fried steak) with a veggie. Stirfry of some sort over brown rice. Those are my mains that I recycle. This week we are having:

portobello mushroom burgers w/artichokes

mushroom bourginon and green beans on the side

chili w/cornbread (the chili is in the freezer, leftover)

pumpkin curry over brown rice w/steamed cauliflower

tacos w/refried beans, cheese, tomato, cilantro, onion

soup w/bread. I think a white bean/rosemary soup.

M won't eat any of the mains! But she will eat the cauliflower, green beans and artichokes.

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Our go-to meals:

quesadillas of all sorts

chickpea, cauliflower, curry with coconut milk

mac and cheese with spinach or broccoli

chicken, veggie, capers, sundried tomatoes & feta on noodles

pad thai

marinated & baked tofu with brown rice & veggies

We eat all kinds of different things, but the above list is what we go to when we have meal planning burn out. Thankfully, DP is a chef, and can whip up pretty much anything in about fifteen minutes. She does all the cooking when she's home! I am ever so thankful. Yay, DP!


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## Vegan Princess

Starling: I'm so jealous you get a chef to cook for you! I bet she's often not home at dinner time though, right? But then I guess you aren't having to make a big meal to feed her either.

I should add - I despise menu planning. But if I don't do it, we end up with nothing for dinner some nights. I don't mind the actual cooking part. I actually like that. I get a lot of inspiration from "what's for dinner?" threads on here. I subscribe to one on the vegetarian board - but I'm sure there is something similar on the non-veg board. In fact, all my staples have come from that thread! And I stole half of this week's menu from someone else who posted their munu for the week yesterday. 

We joined a new homeschool meetup and went to our first meetup with them today - a tour of the Jelly Belly factory. We'd been once before when my brother and his kids were in town, but M was like 15 months then. She had a lot of fun and then we all went to a nearby park afterwards. Nice to meet some new friends. We're doing a bread making meetup with them next week, led by one of the dads that is a chef.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Starling - Awesome cake!

Meals: Some good ideas here! Tonight we had salmon, stir-fried greens in coconut oil, brown rice, and kale salad. Some variation of that is a pretty common staple for us. Also beans and greens, pasta with pesto (I make pesto from nearly any kind of green and freeze it in the summer), quiche/frittata, creamed kale, coconut milk curried greens, kale with green apples and pecans, soup with bread or cornbread, baked roots (beets, potatoes, carrots) with olive oil and garlic, or cabbage/carrot/ginger salad. We generally have salmon several times a week. Pizza and twice-baked potatoes are fun, but more of a treat. Our menu is pretty seasonal as well - a lot more salads in the summer (with fresh garden veggies), and more soups and fried greens in the winter (using greens we froze from the summer and kale from under the snow). We're not veggie, but don't buy factory meat - when we have meat, it's usually hunted meat given or traded by a friend.

I like to cook and bake, and cook pretty much everything from scratch, but I'm definitely not a meal planning person. I'm more of a "chop the first ingredient while I decide what I'm actually making with it" kind of person. I actually find it to be a fun way to cook (as long as I remember to get things out of the freezer ahead of time). I do this partly because we hardly ever go shopping, so I'm not really planning in any normal sense. I might pick up bit of fruit and a few other things weekly, but I'm mostly cooking out of our chest freezer (refilled seasonally), garden (in season), and pantry (refilled every few months).


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## AKislandgirl

Thanks for the menu ideas! Love the ideas!

Here are some of our go-to's:

browned chicken and roasted roots (whatever we have- potatoes, carrots, turnips...)

pizza (probably once a week with a variety of toppings)

tacos (with lots of diff veg toppings)

burgers and home fries

black bean soup

Breakfast for dinner- egg sandwiches, frittata, fried eggs and potatoes- just depends on what we have

So the other day we had some friends over. A is about 6 months or so older then F. They played pretty well together. At one point F came and said that A was hitting her with the drum stick. So we talked about that and they moved on. After they went home F came to me and showed me a spot on her leg where A bit her! You could see every tooth imprint. Days later she still has a bruise. I wasn't sure what to do but DH and I decided that since the moment had passed we weren't going to call the mom and say anything. We talked to F about saying in a strong voice, "Stop, that hurts me!" and have had her practice that. Also telling her that if anyone tries to hurt her she needs to come tell Mama or Papa. I am so surprised that she never told me but she said they were playing in the tent when it happened. She sort of idolizes this older friend. She told me, "I told A to stop but she didn't listen." I will be watching them like a hawk next time they play together. My mom thinks I should bring it up next time we play together but I feel like it might be awkward since I didn't bring it up right away. What would you guys do?


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## AKislandgirl

And....

Happy Birthday to Esmé!! Have a wonderful day little girl! Happy birthing day to you too Starling!


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## starling&diesel

Thanks for the birthday shout out, *Sue*! Yes, it is Esmé's birthday! Three years ago today we came careening down the mountain after finding out from lab results that my liver and kidney were failing from the pre-e and we had to have that baby! And we did!

Today I took her and her birth-buddy (they're three days apart and our younger ones are also three days apart) and his mom and wee brother and H out for a birthday breakfast. We bought a little brownie and cut it in half and put three candles in each one and sang them the birthday song. They loved it!

We're going to a homelearners meetup later, then the aunties and my mom are coming for dinner and cake and presents. I do have one hitch ... I bought a dollhouse from the neighbours but it doesn't have a family and the store nearby that has them was closed for painting, so now I'm in a bit of a scramble. They're supposed to open today, and it's near where we're going for the meetup, so it should work out. We're giving her a toy ambulance too. Fun!

She just decorated her other cake. Blue icing, with Smarties all over and marshmallow eyes with chocolate chip centres. Four eyes. Because it's another monster. I'm excited about having a three year old! She was doing Starfall on her own last night ... working the keyboard mouse and everything! She's not a toddler anymore.

On to the bite, *Sue*. Tell the mom. I would very much want to know if E did that. I'd say something like, "After you guys left I noticed a bite mark on F's leg, but then I chickened out about telling you right away, but after thinking about it, I'm pretty sure I'd want to know if I were you, right?" Said, of course, as gently as possible. I would be horrified if E did that to someone! But I would be pretty upset if she was the bit one too ... and I'd want the mama to know so that she could keep an eye out or do her own thing about it.

ps. Bowling sounds like fun, *Mal*! I think we might do that for next year. I like the bumpers and the slide thing for me, even!


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## Mal85

Happy birthday to Esme!! Sounds like she is having a terrific day!

Sue, I agree with Starling. I would want to know if Owyn bit someone. There may not be much in the way of discipline to do about it now, but I'd at least want to know to keep an eye out for that behavior from now on. You don't have to make a big deal out of it, just mention it next time the kids are playing together.

Owyn is all about birthdays this week. I think going to a birthday party over the weekend has gotten her very excited for her birthday. She told me today "B had a birthday, L had a birthday, J had a birthday, L had a birthday. Now Owyn have a birthday!" Today we told her that she could have a bowling party for her birthday and she was psyched, ready to go right now! Luckily, we are actually going bowling with some friends tomorrow night so that should hold her over for a little while. I asked her what kind of birthday she wanted (her friend had an Abby Cadabby theme from Sesame Street). She has asked for Strawberry Shortcake. Which, right now is on my list of most annoying obsession yet. But it's what she wants. I think I'm just going to get pink and green napkins, plates and cups. Some pink and green balloons. And I found a recipe for a really yummy looking strawberry shortcake. We'll call that her strawberry shortcake party. I just can't bring myself to buy the stuff with the characters plastered all over it.

We just got our tax refund this week and paid off a bunch of debt. Between that and DH's promotion this month, we are starting February with a clean slate and a saving's plan. It feel so good to finally be ahead instead of behind!


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## Mal85

Oh yeah, and meals... I've been in a rut too. Pinterest has actually given me a lot of good ideas. I've been trying a lot of new recipes I found on there. And foodgawker.com. I find a lot of good ones there too. We recently had a Chinese week... I made chicken lo mein one night and another night made bourbon chicken over rice with broccoli sauteed in butter and garlic. Both of those were really delicious. Last week I made a big pot roast dinner (Pioneer Woman's recipe). We ate on those leftovers one night and I made stew with the rest. My go-to's are usually spaghetti (or any other kind of pasta with a marinara sauce, a big salad and some garlic bread). Tacos are big here. I make fajitas a lot. And any variation of stir fry. Chicken casseroles are easy. Meatloaf is one of Owyn's favorites.


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## Vegan Princess

I'm craving pasta and GARLIC BREAD! LOL.

HAPPY BIRHTDAY E!!!! Sounds like a lovely day.  That is so funny that both your kids are 3 days apart! How special. My mom's best friend (our old neighbor) has 5 kids - 3 of which are the same age as us. She and my mom were pregnant together when my mom was having me. Her daughter is 3 days older than me. We were best friends until high school. Then we got in a huge fight and never spoke again. She ended up having a baby a couple weeks before our 18th birthday and moving away (an hour from where I live now). Anyway, it's still special to me to go visit her mom when I go home to visit my family - she is a bit like a 2nd mom to me.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Starling - Happy Birthday E! How fun for you (and the kids) to have friends' little ones so close in age to them. All of these little ones are getting so old! (though K swears he's still a toddler). What is Starfall?

Mal - I am also craving pasta and garlic bread now. I might just have to do that later this week.  And the bowling party sounds like a fun idea.

Sue - I'd want to know if my kid bit someone. Do tell her.

Speaking of parties, I need to think of some good activities for K's party that will work in a very small space (since I don't think he'll be willing to have a snow play/sledding party). Partly to convince him to have one at all! He's our anti-social little boy in some ways. He's excited about having a cake, but not so sure he wants any friends to come over. Going to someone else's house is usually an easier sell, because he can play with their toys (even if he ignores the kids entirely). I do think it's good for him to interact with other kids though, and I need to see their parents sometimes for my own sanity!


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## AKislandgirl

Fiona is 3! I remember being in labor so vividly and heading back to the hospital (for the 3rd time!) around this time of morning. She was born in the afternoon after 40 hours of hard labor! Guess what? She was worth it! I just love this feisty girl so much!

She is still sleeping but DH got her a balloon that is in the living room so she can see it right when she gets up. She is going to be thrilled. We will give her her gifts tonight after dinner. She is getting some Tegu blocks- they have magnets in them that look really cool, a new bathing suit (with promises from DH to get her to the pool regularly!), and a set of story stater cards that look really neat. You pool out cards with pictures on them and take turns telling a story based on the pictures. Sounds like fun! DH saw them on the sight we got the blocks and really wanted them which I though was cute since he doesn't usually pay attention to these types of things.

Plans for the day: a visit to our local wildlife refuge preschool program, home to make decorations and make a cake. Strawberry was her request so we will decorate the cake with those. 

Biting: I called the mom and she wasn't home! I left a message for her to call me though so hopefully I can chatt with her a bit about it today.

Mal: great way to do "strawberry shortcake!"

Starling: So glad that E had such a great day!

Cindy: You keep popping into my head and I get so excited for you all over again!


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## starling&diesel

*mckittre* ... Starfall is a phonics website that is great for little kids. I'll link it here. We have a subscription to it, and E loves it. I think that's how she's come to know all her letters and is starting to sound them out. I have to admit that it's comforting to know that K can sometimes be anti-social too. E is, often. I could have written your post. She was very reluctant to go to her own party, and once there, hung out with her grandma and auntie for the most part. I'll think about small-space indoor activities and get back to you on that.

*Sue* ... Happy Birth Day! F is three! Have a wonderful day, mama!

I was a little sad yesterday, acknowledging that E is three. She's a little kid now. But it's so cool to watch her grow and learn, I do love every day of it.

She loves her new dollhouse, but I might put the ambulance away. It's a playmobil ambulance, and seems really fiddly and annoying. She's out swimming with dd, so I might tuck it away in the closet for when she's a bit older. Later she's going to take the food bank donations down and give them to the food bank. She's really excited to give it to the people who don't have enough. So cute!


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## Everrgreen

Happy Birthday to Esme and Fiona!!!! All our babies are turning THREE! Yay! It sounds like you both had special days. I always reminisce about R's birth around his birthday, I wonder if I'll always do that?

Starling - R got a playmobil set from my mom that has some vehicles and I think I should put them away too. They are just too delicate for his rough 3-year-old ways lol! And there are so many little pieces!

I actually didn't give R his birthday gift. I had some extra Playmobil dinosaur stuff that I saved from Christmas but he still has so much new stuff so I just saved it. I did give him his cape and mask. AND just yesterday I ordered him a real ukelele!! He is sooo into guitars and has 3 play ones. I was looking online about when kids are old enough for a real guitar and some people mentioned getting a ukelele to start. So it should arrive by Friday I think.. I'm so excited to give it to him. It will be a 'just because' gift 

And also... Mmmmmm pasta and garlic bread.... I rarely eat pasta and pretty much never eat garlic bread but now I want some!!

Oh and Starling - thanks for the phonics link! I've tried to explain that letters have sounds to R but he just starts acting silly and runs off. Oh well! Maybe doing it on his own will help!

AFM - I have a busy week and I'm a bit stressed but I'm doing ok. Tonight I'm babysitting my cousin's 3 year old which actually makes my life easier because the 2 boys play so well and I end up with ALONE TIME. Crazy.

Oh and I love all the meal ideas! My meals have been going down hill. Once in a while I'll pull out a recipe book and make something fancy but then R won't eat it. Tonight I was really lazy and made plain rice with steamed veggies... R gobbled it up, asked for seconds, and said "Thanks Mommy this is good!" So really, it makes me wonder why I should even bother with any effort? lol We also eat probably 3-4 meals a week at my moms because of my schedule this semester, so that's awesome!


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## AKislandgirl

Yes, thanks for the link Starling! We just checked it out and F digs it!

Yeah for eating at Mom's! I'm jealous Everr! I too am craving pasta and garlic bread! And feta cheese... mmm!

So I put together a slide show of the past year for our family blog. Feel free to check it out. I got a little teary putting it together I have to admit!


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## Everrgreen

Sue - Ohhh! That is so sweet  You have some great pictures there!


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## Vegan Princess

Happy birthday Fiona!!!! 

I always get a little wistful on M's birthday - just thinking back to what a powerful and amazing day her birth day was. 

We went to the Exploratorium today for the first time. I had heard there isn't much for little ones. But she LOVED so many things there. I think she just hit the age of being able to really enjoy tinkering with everything. We spent 3 hours there and easily could have spent more but I was exhausted. So much fun stuff to explore. I can't wait to go back - and for my engineer husband to go back with her. But man am I exhausted. I didn't sleep well last night. I don't really think pregnancy makes me tired like some people but I just felt worn down to the bones right now. And I wanted this Filipino roll (pandesal) so bad that I drove 1/2 hour out of my way to get it since we were already over the bridge. I haven't had or thought about that stuff in years! It's much easier to find in San Diego.

Cindy


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## Vegan Princess

Happy birthday Fiona!!!! 

I always get a little wistful on M's birthday - just thinking back to what a powerful and amazing day her birth day was. 

We went to the Exploratorium today for the first time. I had heard there isn't much for little ones. But she LOVED so many things there. I think she just hit the age of being able to really enjoy tinkering with everything. We spent 3 hours there and easily could have spent more but I was exhausted. So much fun stuff to explore. I can't wait to go back - and for my engineer husband to go back with her. But man am I exhausted. I didn't sleep well last night. I don't really think pregnancy makes me tired like some people but I just felt worn down to the bones right now. And I wanted this Filipino roll (pandesal) so bad that I drove 1/2 hour out of my way to get it since we were already over the bridge. I haven't had or thought about that stuff in years! It's much easier to find in San Diego.

Cindy


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## justKate

Happy birthday to all of the not-so-littles! Three just seems so grown up in some ways, its shocking (gulp). We're doing a mostly-adults birthday party at my parents' house on the 11th, but of course Aubs won't care, as long as she's the center of attention. Its a "pink" party, at her request, so we'll all wear pink and have a pink cake and some decorations. I think my parents are getting her baby accessories, like a little bath tub or something.

Starling, I love how friendly that monster cake looks.

Courtney, I've always felt like the young one among my friends. No biggie. I always think of you as older than me because of your mama experience, but we're the same age. So its all relative.

Food--we eat pretty simply at home, especially now that Huz is on a diet.

Baked chicken thighs with a veggie and/or spinach salad

Pot roast in the crock pot (pork) one day, then sandwiches or tacos with it the next day

Burgers with blue cheese and a veggie

Fajitas of any sort

Meatloaf--this is my leftover meal. I add whatever is in the fridge to it--beans, cheese, veggies...always a surprise

Bake a whole chicken and make a pot pie with the leftovers

Not very exciting!


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## Mal85

I think we will always be nostalgic on their birthdays. Every year on my birthday, my mom still tells me what she was doing the day she went into labor with me. How she timed contractions while she washed all the bedsheets in the house. So, I assume she still feels nostalgic about it too. We're still a month out from Owyn's birthday, but Greta turns 3 months old TOMORROW! So, I'm feeling nostalgic about her birth right now... I did order a birthday shirt for Owyn on Etsy today. It's just a pink shirt with the number 3 and a flower on the front and "Birthday Girl" on the back. The woman said she could do it in colors to match her "strawberry shortcake" party too, so hopefully Owyn will love it.


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## Nillarilla

Hey Mama's,

I've been trying to catch up with all the excitement.

*Birthdays*- Happy Birthday to all our new 3 year olds! Such an exciting and exasperating age. As for Dee's bday we are supposed to having a fancy nancy party. I sent out a save the date on fb but I can't find a place to host it so it might be here. Our house isn't tiny but it's smallish. There will be 8 kids and probably 15 adults..... I guess I'll be rearranging the furniture. I'm going to set up the wii with a dance party game, some crayons and doilies, and steal the decorating the cupcakes with sprinkles idea. I'm going to put everything I can in the kids closet that is small since we will have 2 two year olds and we have stuff with little pieces. We are doing a fancy nancy party so I'm trying to find a poster of her or maybe I'll get one printed and the kids can stick jewelry on her blindfolded. I'm going to have to stick one of my couches in my bedroom to make room. It's doable, we've done it before but not with quite that many kids.....I really just didn't want to do any prep since I have assignments and stuff due.

*Wistfulness*- Hmmmmm maybe there's something wrong with me but I don't really feel it on birthdays.

*Presents* - I saved the lego and litebrite from xmas as well as a tag reader. Not sure we will give her the tag reader though since her brother has one and she's really not interested yet. I might actually sell that on fb.

*Socialness-* Dee isn't very social with kids she doesn't know and would love to stay with the adults but around kids she knows and likes and if her brother is there she will interact. More so now than when she was younger.

*Behaviour*- Anyone else dealing with baby talk? Ugh it's driving me batty!

Cindy- all body parts that can cross are crossed for you and a new baby!!!!

Meals- We don't really have go to meals except maybe meat, rice and veggie or meat potato veggie and soups we eat a lot of soups

This week we've had

italian sausage and chickpea stew

roasted chicken breasts, rice, and broccoli

pancakes (lazy day)

chicken and bacon rice pasta

tonight is slow cooked lamb roast and stuffed peppers (doubt the kids will eat the peppers so I will just put some stuffing aside for them)


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## Nillarilla

I was going to make this cake.....


__ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/288019338638896240/

But Dee wants this one...


__ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/288019338638896239/

Definitely not as fun


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## AKislandgirl

My computer is being a turd and crashed when I tried to look at the second one but holey moley the top cake is incredible! I'm impressed that you can do cakes like that Nilla! our was generic round cake with some strawberry slices on top! HA!

Mal: Wanted to let you know. I called the toy store. They don't have 100 count megnatiles but do have 48 count for $69.99. Let me know if you want me to pick some up for you. He said he also had 32 count box and working trucks. I didn't ask the price on those because I think you wanted the bigger box. Just let me know!

This was my morning ladies...

laugh or cry? I chose laugh...

Up with Maeve at 4:30 because of a very rare middle of the night poopy diaper. And then another, and a poop in the potty. Guess the girl had to go! She decided to take this opportunity to smile, coo, and pass out slobbery kisses for over an hour. Hard to be grumpy with that. Back to bed. Slept till 8ish. Came out to the living room to find that the Willie (the dog) had puked. Upon further investigation I found that she had puked in 3 places. Cleaned it up. Half an hour later Fiona wakes up. Head to the bedroom and find that she is lying in my our bed and not hers. Tease her about being in my bed- "Well I peed in my bed Mama." Great. Clean her up and then tackle the sheets and bed. SO MUCH BODILY FLUID! I didn't even mention Maeve spitting up all over me because that is just so common I barely notice anymore. Good grief.

I did manage a shower and will now get the carpet shampooer out because the house still stinks like puke. Did I mention that the 2.5 feet of snow on the ground is beginning to melt? Yep, into our garage. The water has no where to go because the ground is frozen and its beginning to seep into the garage. This is awesome!!


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## Nillarilla

Hmmm the bottom link to the cake she wants isn't opening here is a link to the page


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## Mal85

Sue: I might want the 48 pc. Heck I might want that and the 32 pc... I'll talk it over with DH and see what he thinks. I'm having a heck of a time thinking of anything else to get her this year...

Nilla: Both of those cakes are awesome! I could never make something like that. Way beyond my baking abilities! I am going to attempt Pioneer Woman's strawberry shortcake cake for Owyn's party... http://thepioneerwoman.com/cooking/2009/05/strawberry-shortcakecake/

So, this has been one of those weeks when it sucks to be working! My sister's whole family has been sick this week and we've been juggling sitters for the girls. Monday, they went to our back up's house. Owyn usually isn't thrilled because she doesn't know them very well, but she'd just seen them at the birthday party last weekend so she was pretty okay with it this time. Yesterday, they went to my IL's. I thought for sure they'd be able to go back to my sister's by tomorrow, but the stomach flu is slowly hitting all 5 of their kids one right after the other. I so don't want the girls to get that! So, my other sister is doing us a huge favor driving here from a couple towns over to stay with the girls for us. I have no paid time off left after my maternity leave and DH was just sick with bronchitis for a whole week a few weeks ago. It's hard for either of us to take off work right now, so weeks like this are very stressful!


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## mckittre

Sue - Happy birthday Fiona! (cute pics in the slideshow) and ouch about that night! Choosing laugh is probably the right idea, though. Sounds like a tough time with fluids of all types (including the water flowing into your garage). Snow is decidedly not melting here. We had 54 inches when I measured earlier today! Another few days of this, and it'll be over my head.

Nilla - Nice to hear from you again! The cake looks cute. You all are putting me to shame. K knows nothing of fancy cakes at all, so he won't know any better when I make him a rectangular one in my casserole dish with plain frosting and just his name on top. I do have to figure out how to include every type of berry in the freezer though, as per his request. Which I think is 6 kinds.

Starling - I too find it nice to hear I don't have the only anti-social toddler. All the others around seem to really like being with eachother, want to play games, idolize the older kids, etc... Gives me more peace of mind to just let him be himself, I guess. I let K play with Starfall the other night - thanks for the link. He seemed to like it, but was having trouble using my trackpad to navigate (which he'd never done before). And then the power went out immediately, so we'll try again another time. K knows his capital letters, and the simpler phonics sounds (T, D, B, etc...) but all he's ever done on the computer is typed letters into a blank text document. So this might be more fun for him to try.

Mal - I hope your sister's kids are better soon (and that yours don't get it!)

Presents - my husband and I have this idea to make K a little board game on a cardboard box. We'll see if it really happens before his birthday, though (the 14th)

Wistfulness - I was super wistful on L's birthday on the first, remembering being stuck across the bay waiting for her to show up, coming back home, etc... Actually, I was yesterday as well, reviewing my second birth with my friend about to have her second kid. Not sure how I'll feel when K turns three.

AFM - Beautiful heavy snow all day today. Which was fun to be out in, if a little bit wet. We watched the neighbor's plow truck (always a highlight), and I dragged firewood and shoveled off the roof of our guest yurt. But the power was out for 24 hours (not a huge deal with a woodstove, but kind of annoying). And my husband is stuck on the other side of the bay (he was supposed to be back this morning) and can't come back until the weather changes. Planes won't fly if it's snowing, and the boats are all frozen in. So I'm crossing my fingers for clear skies tomorrow. I think 4 and a half feet of snow is plenty, anyway. We have months of winter left to get more. It can stop now.


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## AKislandgirl

Erin- Are you guys getting more snow then usual this year too? Average snowfall for winter here is 35 inches. So far this winter we have had 90 something! Water stopped seeping in- back down to the 20s and super windy today. Bummer your DH is so close and can't get in! Hopefully a weather window will open up for him- I'm sure you are all anxious to have him home.

My DH leaves on Sunday for 6 days in Seattle for a conference. First time of being home alone with both girls!

In group setting F only interacts with kids she knows well. So if we go to story time at the Wildlife Refuge and her one or two buddies that she knows well aren't there she probably won't even talk to a single kid. She knows the staff (I used to work there and we go often) and will shyly say hi but that is about it. If her good friend is there she will chatt with them and play a bit though. I see her breaking out of her shell more and more but I would still say that she is pretty shy. She does much better in a 1 on 1 setting then groups as far as interacting goes.


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## Everrgreen

So, hypothetical question for you all: Say you met someone during a bus ride and thought they were pretty awesome and had a nice conversation BUT only got some basic info from them (first name, job).. Would it be totally creepy to google that basic info to find a way to contact them..

Totally hypothetical question that I need advice on 

Cindy - How are you feeling??

Sue - Oh good luck being home with 2!! I'm sure you'll do fine  And your messy morning sounds awful! The joys of motherhood (and of having pets!) I had some cat puke waiting for me when I got home tonight, yay!

Mal - That sounds like a very stressful week for all of you! You are lucky to have so much family around, and I'm sure Owyn is enjoying some special time with her aunt 

Erin - Wow!! That is A LOT of snow! We are having an unusually mild winter. We have some snow on the ground but not like we should. I'm enjoying it though, I hope it means spring will come early (and NOT that winter is still to come.. just late!)

Nilla - You will have to post a pic of the cake you make afterwards! I have no talent in that department (and that's why we did decorate your own cupcakes lol!)


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## starling&diesel

*Ever* ... GO FOR IT! It'd make a great "How We Met" story. Hypothetically. Just sayin' ...









*Mal* ... What's with the epidemic over your way? I hope everyone is on the mend!

*Sue* ... Holy, bolidy fluid explosion, batman! And you'll do great while your dp is away. I know it!

*Cindy* ... Preggo lady check in please!

*Erin* ... I love the boardgame idea. E is very into games right now.

*AFM:* I hosted a homelearners meet up in our co-op common room today. Ten kids! Two babies, and the rest are between 3-4.5 ... It was great! We're going to try to get today on Tuesday afternoons for a park play date and Friday afternoons at my co-op. We had a playdough station, puzzle station, duplo block station, art station and the ever popular snack station. We had circle time when the kids started to get a bit spinny. I was reminded that E does better in small group with kids who she knows. Most of these mamas were in my mom & baby drop in almost three years ago, so E knows these kids from way back. She had a great time! We also went to another homeschool drop in early in the morning at a playgym. She fell asleep tonight in three minutes flat! Yee haw!

I think H is teething in earnest now. He won't tolerate not being in my arms today and is soaking wet with drool, poor wee gaffer.


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## Everrgreen

Haha, thanks Starling.. I think I'm going to! I actually found him with a single google search so that part was easy! I'll keep you all updated 

Your homeschool group sounds awesome!!

Oh R is awake, gotta run!


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## Everrgreen

We picked up R's ukelele today!! I said to him that if he was ready to say goodbye to num-num that this could be his good-bye present. And if he's not ready we can save it for later. Then we opened the box and when he saw it was a guitar he was SOO excited, he grabbed it and said "Goodbye num-num!" and went off to play with it lol! I reminded him that if he really is ready for his 'real guitar' then it is time to say goodbye to num-num and he says he's ready. So we'll see what happens at naptime....


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## starling&diesel

Hold strong, Mama! What a milestone!


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## Nillarilla

Ever: Hugs to you it will be hard but worth it. When Dee gave up her soother we gave her money and she got to go shopping. For her the shopping was more fun than what she actually bought. She decided to give it up and when. She got up one morning and said "I'm ready to go shopping. I will throw my soo-soo in the garbage" and she did. She wanted it at bedtime and it was realllllllllly hard not to run out to the store and buy her one. She was so sad and pitiful sounding. The next night though no problems. The night after was sad again. It went that way for about a week. Then she stopped talking about it. However it is still really difficult to get her to settle at night and for the occasional nap without the 'plug'. I wanted to give in but mostly for my sake. I'm really glad I stuck it out now to work on teaching her to settle herself. Next kid I will ditch the soother sooner. I think after 2 it's harder to break a habit that's so soothing.


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## AKislandgirl

Everr: hypothetically speaking: Do it! What an awesome thing about R! A major milestone indeed!

Is F the last one standing on the nursing front? She skips the morning nurse more often then not these days. I think she asked once this week. She still nurses for a few minutes every night though. Although, a couple of weeks ago she did skip it 2 nights in a row. I do think the end is near for us. I could probably nudge her in that direction without too much trouble. I think maybe when DH is back from his trip- if I'm strong enough to do it. If feel so torn as I'm sure you Mama's understand.

DH took her to dance class this morning and I stayed home with a napping baby. I cleaned the playroom and rotated some books and toys. I wish we had better storage here. I feel like our closet is one of the comic book pictures- as soon as you open it everything will come cascading out! Ha!

Starling- I want to come to your homeschool playgroup! Sounds awesome!

I went to a babywearing group yesterday. It just started up and I loved it. I learned how to do the double hammock back carry with Maeve. It's awesome! Totally love it! Man- some of those ladies have a lot of nice wraps! There are so many pretty ones out there! I can see how it could become totally addicting!

Fiona is in love with her new Tegu blocks she got for her birthday. We have all been playing with them actually. They have magnets impeded in them which makes tower building really fun! Something to think about Mal if you don't want to do the magnatiles.


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## Vegan Princess

Ever: Can't hurt to do! And how sweet about R. I loved the pic on Facebook! I hope you're holding up ok!  It will be sad at first but then you will be ok and it sounds like you are more than ready to be done.

Starling: The group sounds awesome! We just joined some homeschool meetups recently bc all the mom's groups seem to be all little ones now. It's nice to meet families with a bit older kids - but these are more "outing" type things.

Sue: Ugh. I have had days/mornings like that. My DH sometimes complains his life is filled with poop - cat and child. And when his dad was here, he was dealing with his accidents too. Good thing we love them!

AFM: M has been really not into group activities at all lately. She's always hated circle times and still does and just clings to me lately around other kids that are not some of the ones she's known forever. She was never quite this shy - not sure if it's a phase or just more of her true demeanor coming out.

Makenna is sick. She's had fever the past day and a half. She was in great spirits yesterday though - the tylenol really helped. But the cough and stuffiness kicked in today. She is actually napping - a rare happening around here.

As for myself, I feel fine. Been tired but I'm not sure I can blame that on anything other than having a 3 yr old (still feels funny to say I have a 3 yr old). I took my 3rd beta this morning and am waiting on the results. Other than some mild cramping, I don't really feel any dif. I just am not really a morning sick person. It was super duper mild w/M and nonexistant w/my miscarriage. I wouldn't mind if I get some (to ease my nerves) - but even w/M it didn't kick in until somewhere between 6-8 weeks. So just waiting waiting - waiting for beta results and then waiting for my first ultrasound.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

reading along. soaking it all in.


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## Mal85

Sue-- I looked up the Tegu blocks. They look really neat! I hadn't seen those. Which set did you get for F? We may go with those...


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## Vegan Princess

The tegu blocks do looks cool. I liked the magnatiles bc the clear ones can go on a light table too. Though the only thing M has really done with them is build houses, etc and you can do that w/tegu.

We just got a belated birthday gift in the mail for M. I thought I'd share. She got a game called Traintastic Cargo. It's cute - works on counting, shapes and colors. She seems to get it and enjoy it. For those of you looking for more games.

Also, my SIL sent what she called "calm down balls" that she made. They made me think of you Sue - since you made the glitter jar and were looking for ideas. They are just balloons with maybe 2 golf balls worth of salt dough inside. She tied them shut and drew faces with different expressions on them. They are good to squeeze when the kids are worked up, I guess. I'm guessing maybe she is having issues with either her almost 4 yr old or almost 2 yr old. I have no idea how she got the dough inside though???

Speaking of stuff inside balloons. We did water balloons in the bath yesterday and we put some crushed up bath color tablets in a few of them. Makenna has so much fun! Ultimately she/we had to cut them to pop them - but she liekd that too. I stole the idea off one of my favorite blogs. M had been refusing to bathe!

M's fever spiked way up after my last post. Despite having taken tylenol an hour before, she woke up with 101 fever. After a fever bath, she went back to sleep for a few hours. We're alternating the tylenol and advil every few hours now and she still has 99. Poor thing! I am so scared she is going to wake with croup tonight too!

Cindy


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## Mal85

Cindy- I hope M feels better. Yucky stuff is going around like wildfire in our neck of the woods. Luckily, we haven't had it at our house and I'm avoiding it like the plague at this point.

We made our trip to American Girl today. Owyn had a good time. Most of the girls we went with were older, so she wasn't as into as they were. They all got their American Girl dolls' hair done and ears pierced. Owyn has a Bitty Baby, so I let her pick out an outfit for it. I didn't even wander over to the salon portion, but found out later they do a cleaning and "pedicure" on the Bitty Babies for $5. Wish I'd known, Owyn's baby could really stand to be cleaned. Afterwards, we went to a burger place then out for ice cream. All in all, it was a pretty good day until we headed home. Owyn turned into a screaming brat all the way home. Yelling at me, being just mean to me. I know she was tired and it was a full day for her, but really? After all I did for her all day? It's moments like that when this whole parenting thing is a lot more give than get. It was over an hour drive to get home and I lost my cool for a minute. I told her she was being very rude to me and that it hurt my feelings that she'd be so mean to me after I did so many nice things for her today. Then, I told her I didn't want to hear her voice again until she was ready to be nice to me. I didn't hear another peep out of her all the way home. Guess she didn't want to be nice to me.


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## mckittre

Mal - I know what you mean! I do so hate it when a tantrum comes from me trying to do something special and fun for K. It's hard to remember that tantrums just happen at this age, and that being appreciative is far beyond the mind of a 3 year old.

Cindy - I hope M feels better soon!

Sue - I keep meaning to learn more wrap carries. I learned the ruck tied tibetan, and liked it, and pretty much stopped there!

Everr - How sweet. K's stopping nursing was kind of just happenstance really, so we never really celebrated it at all.

Starling - that homeschool group sounds fun. We have a regular Friday kid meetup here in town, but it's never anywhere close to that organized. Mostly just kids of various ages running around in chaos while their moms chat.

AFM: Beautiful clear day today, so my husband finally got home (48hrs later than he was supposed to). I spent the day shoveling out the bike and trailer (again), and playing in the snow with K, while he got us some more firewood. We have 5 feet of snow in the yard, which makes for some awesome snow tunnel forts. And Sue, it is definitely more than usual this year.

L is finally getting her second 2 teeth (at 13 months old). I hope she's done being fussy about it soon.


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## Everrgreen

Erin - Wow that is a lot of snow!! I saw your pics on fb, crazy!!! I'm glad your hubby finally made it home 

Mal - Oh that is frustrating. I find it really hard when I plan something special for R and he is in a mood. Usually for him it's getting ready to go that causes the tantrums which just makes me want to stay home and forget the whole thing! But car tantrums are the worst. You are just trapped there and you can't do anything to help them or get away yourself.

Cindy - I hope M is feeling better! Poor girl! I'm glad you are still feeling well and all is good! I'm sure it will be nice for you to have that first ultrasound 

AFM - So.. Last night R wanted to nurse. We had a long conversation about it. He said he was still little and needed num-num, and he said he wanted to give the guitar back and have num-num instead, and then he did this big sigh and said very calmly "Oh I just want num-num and not worry about it" LOL! I immediately started laughing. The tone of it was basically just "Oh mom, enough with the conversation, I just want num-num why do we have to talk about it?" I tried to encourage him to just try to sleep without it tonight and if he really changed his mind he could have num-num tomorrow. But he kept insisting and so he had num-num. I just really want weaning to be his choice and I don't want to force him. I don't know. I think maybe I'll put the guitar away and he'll know it's there and can decide when he wants it back. And next time he says he's ready will be it for sure. I just don't think this is going to be easy.. I don't know! Agh..


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## Thursday Girl

the tantrums and ungratefullness ARE hard, and they can continue. I hate having taken them out to do something really fun and then afterwords if say the ice cream I got them to share wasn't quite right they pitch a fit and tell me how horrible the day was or what a bad mom I am.

junes is being fussy so i can't type much.


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: American girl sounds fun! I'm sorry Owyn was being bratty on the way home. Pretty typical for this age though. And sort of funny that she actually kept her mouth shut bc she didn't have anything nice to say.

Erin: I'm glad your DH is finally home!  Snow tunnels and forts sounds so fun!

AFM: We went to a super bowl party at DH's boss's house. He started his job only 6 months ago so I'd never met anyone he works with - so that was nice. M had SO much fun while we were there. I really thought she would cling to me and melt down bc she's still got a runny nose. So that was a nice surpise. She crashed out within 5 minutes in the car. And DH is now crashed out too and it's only 8:30. LOL. He took advantage of having a pregnant wife to drive home.

I got my 3rd beta results back. 6902!! They have kept doubling every 2 days since my last one - even though they were supposed to have slowed down after they hit 1500. So that is a relief for now. I just wish a high beta now meant everything would still be ok 2 months from now!! I went a head and scheduled my u/s for a week from tomorrow!

Cindy


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## starling&diesel

Cindy ... I'm so thrilled for you! What fabulous news! I can't wait until you hear a heartbeat!

Ever ... I don't know if you remember, but I took E to the toy store last spring so she could pick out a special "Goodbye Num Nums" gift fir herself. She chose this cute little duckling and took it home and didn't nurse that night. Then it all fell apart in the morning and we were right back where we started. It wasn't until the Num Num Fairy came over three nights this fall that it stuck. All in good time, mama!


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## justKate

Cindy,







I'm so excited for you. It does suck, the uncertainty of the future, but hopefully this one is burrowing in tight. I'm anxious for you to hit the second tri and have that reassurance. I hope M is feeling better now.

Mal, the American Girl store sounds like it would have been more fun without O! I love just looking around at places like that, but Aubs doesn't usually let me. The car melt downs get to me too--she kicks the headrest off the back of her seat, pulls the seat belt out and hits the window with the buckle and complains loudly about whatever is on the radio. Turn it off! Turn it on! I don't want to hear Ducks! I want Ducks! I usually tell her I can't understand her when she's yelling and then turn on "my" music and ignore her. I guess we could resolve the seat destruction issues by turning her FF, but then she would probably just kick my seat. She also says "my not happy with you, mommy" over and over. Ugh.

Ever, it sounds like R made a big decision in giving his uka-? (little guitar) back. No advice, but it sounds like he understands that the time must come. Hugs to you both!

Erin, glad DH is home. I would be seriously overwhelmed by those tasks without a hand to help with the littles. You're a rock star.

Starling, I'm seriously jealous of the crunchiness of your neighborhood. There just doesn't seem to be much here, and everything home-school related is closely affiliated with a church--which might be okay, if we were into any particular church, but we're not really. The only thing I've found are some birth-related meetings. Makes me miss Austin.

Courtney, yay for the progress on your house! Loving the FB updates.

Today DH forgot to take his blood pressure medicine and forgot his lunch this morning, so Aubs and I are going to take it to him. I'm a little annoyed because we really weren't planning on going anywhere today, but i guess I should try to think of something to do while we're out to make it worth the trip across the toll bridge. Hmm.

As for me, feeling like I'll be pregnant forever. I don't want babe to come early or anything, but geez nine weeks seems like a long time when I feel so big already. We had movers here on Friday to get some big stuff upstairs, and one of them commented that i was "about to pop." Lovely, right? I need to wear baggier clothes more often I guess.

Aubs had a stomach bug all day Saturday, which was weird. She hasn't puked in a long time, but Saturday she made up for it. Everything seems to have passed now, but yuck.

Guess we should get ready to go rescue DH....


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## Everrgreen

Kate - I'm sure the 9 weeks will be over before you know it! I know with R it seemed like I waited forever (even though he came early!) and yet after he was born I felt like the pregnancy flew by and I missed being pregnant lol! I'm sorry Aubs was sick 

Starling - Yes I'd had the idea to do that since you first mentioned it. I talked to another friend as well who did that and she said her daughter got her weaning present and never asked again, but with her son the weaning present mysteriously disappeared after a couple days and then he wanted to nurse again lol. I'm doing lots of encouraging but I don't want to force him, you know? I figure we've made it this far and I don't want to end it in a sad way. But I really am getting to the point where I want it to be done so hopefully he'll come around soon!

Cindy - YAY!!! Such good news!! So do these numbers suggest the possibility that your little egg split into two? Or is it still within normal for a single babe?

AFM - I spent yesterday in bed with some sort of stomach bug. It hit me really suddenly and was soo awful. So far R seems to be ok and I hope he doesn't get it. He had to fend for himself yesterday and spent most of the day eating chips :/ But my mom brought him a kids meal (not the healthiest, but better than a day full of chips) and brought me some vitamin water. Today my stomach still hurts but I'm on the mend. I'm at that point where I feel really hungry but nothing seems appealing. I should try and eat though.

And R nursed again last night.. I think we're making some progress though...


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... What wonderful news!







I am SO thrilled for you, hon! I cannot wait until you hear that heartbeat! I'm so excited for you. Truly! Burrow in and get comfy, little ember!









*Kate* ... Poor Aubs! I hope she feels better? And yes, I looooove my neighbourhood, but it is darn expensive! Great crunchy factor for sure though. I

I hope you find the crunchy underworld near you soon. Babywearing groups? LLL? Unschoolers? They've got to be hiding somewhere?

*Ever* ... I think E knew that when it was between her and I, that she and I would quickly and happily return to nursing, which we did, several times. To be honest, I had to invoke the fairy so that I could blame a third, neutral party because I was so conflicted, and E knew it. I still feel at a loss when she hurts herself!

I hope you feel better today! I can't imagine having a tummy bug and parenting solo ... hats off to you, mama!

Which bring me to a *QOTD*: What do your kids do when they barf? E has only barfed twice in the last 18 months or so, both times in the car on winding roads just after she ate breakfast. Both times, there was little to no warning. Do your kids tell you that they're going to barf? Can they aim it into a bowl or is it bodily fluid free-for-all? Do you put a diaper back on for potty-learned kids with diarrhea? When I was sick last month I wondered all of this, but E didn't get what I had, so it never came to be.


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: My beta number is actually still higher than the median for twins according to betabase. BUT, there the highest number reported for single baby is like 7 times my number. So really you just don't know unitl the u/s. And I read that identical twins actually often don't have higher betas anyway bc a lot of times they share a placenta and it's the placenta that excretes the HCG. I doubt it's two - but stranger things have happened!

I'm sorry to all you sickies and all the sick littles! The barfing flu is the WORST!!! My brother and SIL have 11 kids and like 7 of them were puking on the same day last week! Pretty much everyonein that house caught it! M is all stuffed up and coughing and miserable. She still refuses to blow her nose - she she was up a million times last night and early this morning crying for us to wipe the dried snot off of her face. Poor thing. DH is home sick today with it and I am coughing - but hoping it doesn't get any worse. At least DH doesn't have a fever.

Barfing. Usually there has been no warning. She just sits up and cries and then yacks. Last time it happened I did give her a bowl to keep nearby and she seemed to understand to use it, but thankfully she never needed it. I'm sure putting a dipe on if accidents are happening wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. But perhaps a pullup would be better so she could actually get it off to try and go. With a diaper they can't get it off themselves or quickly (M cannot do the snap ones we use). I don't think we've have too much diarrhea since potty training. She has that type of poo, but no urgency issues.

Kate: I can't believe it's only 9 weeks you have left! I had been wondering when your due date is.  So exciting!

I'm going to a seminar on "playful parenting" tonight. Put on by the co-op preschool I think we're going to send M to. I'm really looking forward to it. I loved the last seminar of this type I went to by Bev Boss - I got so much out of it. This one is by Sharron Krull.

Speaking of preschools. We actually found out M didn't get a space where we wanted! So I've toured a million places in the past month. I finally found the perfect place. It's a co-op school but their afternoon program does not require parents to participate in the classroom. Parents do have a family job and monthly meetings and you get all the great community aspects out of being part of a co-op - but it's much easier on parents with a 2nd kid. It is slighly more expensive, but still cheaper than most non co-ops. It is afternoon 12:30-3:30. I love my mornings w/M and am so happy not to give up that part of our day. I often run out of ideas for the afternoon anyway and the day is so long with her not napping - so this will be nice.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy: Woo Hoo! this is so exciting!









kate: Hope you can make a fun outing out of your rescue! Sorry Aubs was sick this weekend. Yuck! I promise you won't be pregnant forever!









Everr: Hope you are feeling better. I totally get how you are feeling on the weaning front. We are right there with you. I took a cue from you and asked F when she thought she might be done with Nu-Nu. "When I'm a Mama like you!" Hmm...

Erin and Starling: I totally used your technique last night for solo bedtime! Fiona was pretty tired and fell asleep pretty quickly. One night down!

She didn't even asked to nurse last night. She has skipped the bedtime nurse a few times now and almost never asks to nurse in the morning anymore either. The end may really be near for us. I'm not sure if I should nudge her in that direction with the weaning fairy or just let it happen naturally. I feel just like you Everr- eager to have it over but not wanting it to be a sad and forced thing. She woke up with a cold today so we shall see what she thinks come bedtime tonight.

Re Puking: F has only had the flu once- last summer when we were visiting my parents. The first time she threw up I wasn't prepared. We were just getting home and she puked in my nieces car. But then after that she would sort of cough before hand and I could get a towel under her in time. I don't know what we would do for diarrhea. She has only had that once too- when she was about 8 months old or so. i would probably try to avoid putting a diaper back on during the day. If it was really bad maybe I'd change my mind and might use one for bedtime. I hope I don't have to figure any of this out anytime soon!


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## starling&diesel




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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... That sucks about the preschool! But the other one sounds pretty skookum too. E and H have colds right now too. They're a bundle of snotty, coughing misery. But it's a nice day out so we're going out! E wants to go to Science World. So we'll go there and spread our germ rather than go to our standing Monday library story time date.

*Pictures*: The one with the leotards illustrates E's favourite way to wear them.


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## AKislandgirl

CIndy: We posted at the same time- sorry M is still sick. The plan B preschool does sound great though! The looking and waiting for preschool space is so foreign to me. We have a few options at different churches in town. You can basically get in if you want to.

Skookum: totally thought that was an Alaskan word! Love it. When I was making soap to sell I had one called Skookum Scrub!

Loving the pictures! The tights on the head is my favorite! And I just want to kiss those baby cheeks! Mwah!


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## Everrgreen

Starling - You have seriously cute kids! H is getting so big too!

R has had throw-up bugs a few times and he is really good at giving warning. When he was younger I just had him puke into a towel because usually there wasn't much and it was just nicer for him that way. But the last time he got sick I had him throw up in a bowl and he did fine with that. I usually hold him on my lap and help him hold the bowl. And I've never put him back in diapers for diarrhea but again, he's good at giving warning. It seems like he gets sick a lot more than everyone else's lo here, maybe that's why he's good at giving warning?


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## Mal85

Puking: Owyn has had the puking bug twice in her life. Once she was a fairly young baby... maybe younger than 6 months, not really sure though. That one sucked. It scared her when she puked since she had no idea what was happening. The next time was about a year ago, so she was around 2 years old. She had that one bad, like got dehydrated bad and we had to give her a shot of anti-nausea medicine that knocked her out for like 12 hours and I had to sit near her giving her medicine droppers of water every so often to keep her hydrated. That was AWFUL. When she was puking, I literally planted myself on the couch with her head in my lap where she slept fitfully all day long. When she would start to stir, I knew she was going to puke and had a bowl nearby that I grabbed and caught it with. She was puking every 15-30 minutes that day, so I never could get far away from her without fear of her puking all over herself. That bug is going around big time right now and we're doing all we can to avoid it. We spent the weekend with my family and several of them have come down with it within 12 hours after we were with them, so right now I feel like I'm just waiting for it to hit us. But we're over 24 hours out from being exposed to it and so far so good.

Cindy: So excited about those numbers! I find myself randomly thinking of you during the day and getting so excited for you all over again! I'm (not-so) secretly hoping for surprise twins!!

Preschool: I keep meaning to call the local Montessori school to see when their open enrollment is. They used to always have a wait list, but I've been told it hasn't been like that the last several years. I still feel like I should call and make sure. Think I'll put that on my to-do list for tomorrow. I have a secret plan to weasel my way into that school. I find that I'm really liking teaching, but I get in a rut here. I'm stuck with their curriculum and am actually finding that the religious aspect of the school gets under my skin more and more as time goes by. Every teacher at the local Montessori school started out as a very involved parent. I already have the Montessori background, so my plan is to enroll Owyn and be the most involved parent I can be and hope I can eventually work my way in there. I've started looking into certification, but am holding out until I know there will be a job at the end of it...

Sue: I ended up ordering some Tegu blocks for Owyn. I can't wait for them to come! I was a little bummed. I decided on The Original set, but it's sold out everywhere I look. So, I went with the Explorer Set. If she loves them, we'll probably get her the Original Set for Christmas next year.


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## AKislandgirl

mal: We have the explorer set and it has plenty of blocks for her (and DH who can't get enough of them!) to play with. I hope she'll love them as much as Fiona!


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## justKate

Mal, I like your plan with the Montessori school!

Can I ask a couple of random questions?

Re. woven wraps--Ever, you said you had a didymos, right? What size did you buy? I really like the didymos but the price is a bit much (like $179.00). I might try ebay.... What size did you get? I'm 5'6'' and thinking the size 5 or 6 would be the most versatile. Where did anyone else get their wraps?

Art easel--anyone have one they love? The ILs sent us money for one for Aubs for her birthday, but I'd like to find one that folds and can hang on the wall when not in use.

Nursing necklace--anyone have a favorite etsy site?

Thanks for the help. Not sure what I'd do without you ladies!


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: RE: Easel. We love our easel that we got for like $15 at Ikea. It has a white board and chalk board and holds a big roll of paper. I can't see how the more expensive ones (like the Melissa & Doug one we bought my niece and nephew for like $60) are any different or better. But they don't ship them - so that is only an option if you have an Ikea nearby. My dad also bought a tabletop Melissa & Doug easel for Makenna. We really dind't need it and I probably should have returned it. But it came in an unmarked amazon box that my dad never told me was coming and as soon as I opened the box, M wanted to play with it. So we keep the big easel downstairs in the basement and it's always set up to paint and has an area of the floor covered around it (I bought a pink, plastic tablecloth for parties and taped that down). The tabletop one stays upstairs and is used for the chalk and whiteboard.

Mal: Sounds like a great plan! 

I got a 15% off discount code for Discount School Supply from my play lecture this evening. If anyone's interested, I'll go look it up and post it. It never expires.I love that site. They sell maga tiles, but are of course sold out right now.

Cindy


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## Thursday Girl

sickies suck. Junes makes a noise before she starts throwing up and we run to the toilet or the bucket. she knows to puke into them but if I don't get her there in time she'll just puke all over herself. even my big girls will sometimes just lay and puke on themselves and sometimes make it to the toilet. Haven't had to deal with diarhhea in a freshly or in a potty training child, so not sure what I would do about diapers vs underwear.

Cindy- so excited for great numbers and still thinking burrowing down thoughts for you all.

did my first birth as a doula in training. Just got up to eat, feeling pretty exhausted and my body is quite sore. When I left to go Junes told me "Don't let my sister out, Otay." and she was so very serious about it. The big sister is her best friend, so I had explained where I was going.

E and H are so cute Starling, I love the photos.

preshool- the school my big girls o to didn't have enough kids in the early childhood class so for the moment there is no class, Don't know if they will have it back next year. If they don't Junes won't go as we can't afford another school, Hubs thinks we aren't doing enough at the school to qualify 3 kids to go there. So he would want to pay if she went anyway, which is not happening.

we had the ikea easel and I loved it until the kids stood on the art tray which broke, it was very fixable but Hubs threw the pieces away. of course the exact same thing happened to the $60 easel my sister bought when Jewel was little. So our next easel will be the $15 ikea one again.


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## Everrgreen

Courtney - That's awesome that you did your first birth!! I went to a friend's birth May '10 and it was such an awesome experience. I would love to doula some day when R is older (like, old enough to be left in the middle of the night lol) Very cute what Junes said!

Kate - We also have the Ikea easel. It is well worth the money.. Even though it's $25 here in Canada (yet another example of our prices being higher than they should be!)

I have a Didymos Indio linen blend. It is beautiful, strong, and very high quality. I'm 5'3" and I think the one I have is a size 5.. It's stored away atm but I will find it later today and confirm that. (ETA - Yep, it's a size 5) The only problem I had was that it is kind of bulky for my petite frame, I always felt like there was so much material.. I think I would prefer just cotton or even one of the gauze ones that are out there. My collection of carriers also includes a moby wrap, Sakura Bloom ring sling, and Boba  My wrap is definitely the most comfy, although the others serve their own purpose too! Oh and I bought it from birdiesroom.com

Here's me and R back in summer '09:

(snip)


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## starling&diesel

NAK

*Ever* ... Great pic! I love, love R is his sunglasses. I can see why you're holding onto it!

*Courtney* ... Awesome about the birth! Right on!

*Mal et al* ... I have to check out these blocks you mamas are talking about. They sound neat! Would they be good as a Christmas present? As in, still hold their interest at 4? I just bought 1000 pieces of basic LEGO off Craigslist. I haven't busted it out yet. I think I'm going to keep it special for our homelearners co-op.

*Kate* ... I know a lot of American's get great deals on babywearer.com, especially with gently used ones. I have a Vatanai size 7 (is that 5 metres? Dunno.) in a lovely two-tone rust colour, and I just bought an Ellaroo, also size 7, in purples and teals. It's a little lighter, so I bought it with the summer in mind, and our trip to Costa Rica in May.

*Easel* ... I've heard great things about the IKEA one. We don't have one. Our space is SO SMALL. I'm thinking about a table top one though, because E does a lot of her 'work' at the kitchen table whilst sitting in her Tripp Trapp.

*Cindy* ... I'd love to know the discount code! Especially if it works for Canadians! Sounds like a great talk.

Both my kidlets have nasty colds. So not much sleep happening here while they're wracked with coughs and phlegmy throats. Poor things.


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## AKislandgirl

Great picture Everr! He was so little!!

Wraps: I have a girasol earthy rainbow. It is a size 6. I really love it. I will probably get another one because I just love it and it will be fun to have different colors. I was feeling overwhelmed by choices and didn't know which would be better so I just homed in on a colorway I loved and went for it. I want to buy a wrap with a trip to Costa Rica in mind!- Not jealous at all!

Nursing necklace: Was just thinking about this because Maeve is loving pulling my hair! I want to find something else for her to pull! I think I'll search etsy.

Easel: We have a mellissa and doug. The chalkboard part sucked and wouldn't really take chalk so we ended up repainting it with chalkboard paint. We don't have room to always have it out so it hasn't been out in a while. I tend to pull out finger paints or watercolors more often. It was fun in the summer to set up on the porch though. Not sure how much they run- it was a gift from the grandparents.

Discount code: yes please!


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## Vegan Princess

Sue: Repainting w/chalk board paint is a great idea!

Everr: I too love that pic! You look beautiful. R is styling too,of course.

Courtney: So cute what Junes said! How many weeks do you have left? How long was the labor you attended? I love births!

Starling: I recall you took E to Costa Rica. I'm so jealous you're going back!! I went to Panama on my honeymoon - I hear they are pretty similar.

The site is Discount School Supply and the code for 15% off is OSRSK15. Supposedly it never expires. I grabbed their catalog last night and I also found something called Magic Magnetic Shapes that are somewhat similar to Magna Tiles. 135 pieces for $29.99. Of course when the Magna Tiles are being manufactured again, this site also carried them and you can use the discount code on their already below retail price. If you spend $79 or more, it's free shipping. There is so much I want!

M is still all snotty and still has a low grade fever. And she is SO whiny. She (and DH and I) slept horribly. I am so not having much patience with her! We stayed out running errands too long into lunch and she got all whiny and I just couldn't deal anymore. So glad we are home! We're going to make sun catchers...

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

I think I look so young in that pic. The 2+ years of single parenting since then have aged me a lot lol!

We have an entire wall in the kitchen painted with chalkboard paint. It's pretty fun! It was like that when we moved in and the landlord offered to paint it back to normal but I wanted it left! R enjoys it.. He especially likes getting me to draw things which is fun - except when he gets mad at me when I can't draw something. He thinks I'm purposely not drawing it and doesn't get that I just can't lol!

Thanks for the discount code Cindy! I'm not sure if I'll be able to use it here, but I'm off to find out!


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## starling&diesel

*Cindy* ... Yep, back to Costa Rica! My auntie and uncle live there, so once we get there, we don't have many expenses. We love it! We'd love to live there but until you have residency you have to leave the country every ninety days. Most people go to Nicaragua, but I don't think our tatooed butch/femme queer selves would fare so well in Nicaragua. Thanks for sharing the discount!

E has such a bad cough that she vomited as we were walking home from the park, poor thing. We're parked on the couch watching Madagascar now.


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## mckittre

Hope all the sickies are better soon! When K has had puking, he's usually able to do it into a bowl if you leave one near him.

Kate - You won't be pregnant forever! But I know how you feel. I sure felt that way with L, mostly because she was 15 days late! I hope for better timing for you.

Cindy - Yay for good numbers. Hope that little embryo is holding on tight.

Wraps - I got mine from thebabywearer.com - they have a forum for people to sell/trade used ones. I got a Neobulle size 4.6m with both kids, and one shorter Storchenwiche (which I lost somewhere). All cotton ones. Maybe around $80 each? I never went for one of the Didymos because they were always so expensive compared to the other brands. I love the Neobulle though. Gave one to a friend with a new baby, but still use my Neobulle Julie every day with Lituya (who weighs 21 pounds now - more with the snowsuit). It's always comfortable.

Preschool - The head start teacher just pointed out to me that K could join head start now. Like next week, when he turns three! I'm kind of conflicted about it. My husband really wants him to go, and thinks it would be a good opportunity for him. And the teacher is kind of recruiting us. She's our neighbor and friend, and is great with little kids, and has degrees in early childhood education, and has a class of maybe only 4 or 5 kids now, and would love to have a couple more. I hadn't even thought about sending him to "school" yet. On the one hand, it's somewhat of a logistical hassle to send him (4 mornings a week), and I don't want him to miss out on outdoor exploration time with us. On the other hand, what she does with the kids in that focused 4 hours is probably way more interesting than what we usually do with most of that time - juggling kids and work and chores, ignoring K while he plays with legos, etc... I don't know. Maybe we'll send him on a trial run some day soon.


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## AKislandgirl

erin; Would they let you do 2 mornings a week for a while?

Sick kiddos- here too. My throat hurts too and DH said he's getting it too. Ugh. I'm supposed to have a sitter for a couple of hours tomorrow for F but I'm about to call and cancel since we are sick. A little bummed because it was to be my only break (I'd still have M with me too of course). I don't have it in me to make the house presentable for anyone else either though. Ah well. We are watching Nemo!


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## Thursday Girl

wraps- I have a moby, I haven't used it yet though, With Jo and Junes I used a wrap I made from jersey knit fabric.

sickies- hope everyone feels better soon. sickies suck.

Tomorrow Junes turns 3. we made the cake today and she told me the batter was "super yummy" with a very serious expression on her face, at first i thought she didn't like it because of the face she made. She told me she wants to be a chef when she grows up. I was holding her and making Jo a necklace while watching a cooking show and my arm got in her vision path to the tv and she said "Mom, I can't see the cooking movie." LOL.

pregnancy- i am 32 weeks maybe 32 1/2.


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## Everrgreen

Courtney - Happy Birthday to Junes!!! And Happy Birthing Day to you 

Starling - I'm jealous that you have family to visit in Costa Rica!! I went there in high school, it was gorgeous!

AFM - So, no updates really for my hypothetical bus guy  I did find him on fb and sent a message but no response. Then my friend informed me that if you aren't friends or friends of friends with someone then the msg gets sent to the 'other' folder where nobody ever checks. And that's true, because I then checked my other folder and there were many many unread msgs lol! Soo, just now I sent him a friend request. Which I really *hate* to do because then he can see my entire page which is kind of weird.. But it's one of those things where I have nothing to lose. Either he's interested or he thinks I'm crazy for stalking him online (or maybe both?)

And I just want to add that I think trying to date SUCKS! People say dating sucks, but that's not true - it's the *trying to* part that sucks! And it is extremely hard as a single mom who doesn't even get eow off. I have close to zero opportunities to meet people because I have no free time. My only time away from R is at school or on the bus. That's it. And friends keep saying 'oh maybe you'll meet a single dad somewhere with R'.. That doesn't happen in real life, that only happens in rom coms. In real life children demand your full attention and don't stay in one place long enough for a conversation with anyone. And pretty much everyone I see on weekends (which is the only time I'm out with R) are already coupled. So there. Trying to date sucks!

Rant over. (Sorry for that...)


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## justKate

Happy Birthday Juniper! Courtney, glad the birth went well. I'm sure you're exhausted. Pics are great.

Ever, I don't think the FB thing can hurt. Oh well if it makes you crazy. I met DH for the first time when I was his waitress while he was on a blind date with another girl. Embrace the crazy.









So the closest IKEA is 120 miles away, and not near anything. So I think that's out. I put together a list of some cute ones available online and emailed it to DH. I'll try to get him to pick so that he feels involved.

Speaking of DH, I need to share this 'cause its sort of burdening me. Yesterday at dinner he yelled at Aubs because she was being her usual difficult self, and refusing to eat, screaming, etc. She cried for a minute and then got over it and went to play. I told him, calmly, not accusingly, that he probably didn't need to yell at her when she wasn't actively engaged in doing something "wrong" like smearing ketchup all over the table (as she had earlier). No big deal, no argument. He sort of said "yeah" and walked away. Then later, after she was asleep, he says he's going for a walk. Comes back and sits on the couch and says he has "anger issues" and starts crying because he feels bad for yelling at Aubs. The last time he cried (that I know of) was when Aubs was being airlifted from Key West to Miami Children's Hospital in an isolette. So totally out of character. Weird. I tried to reassure him that its okay for us to show emotions, just like its okay for Aubs to have meltdowns and show her emotions, and that its not going to scar her.... Truly, he didn't need to yell at her, but I didn't do anything to make him feel bad about it. Earlier in the week we had an argument in the car and I asked him not to raise his voice at me, but I have to do that maybe four or five times a year. "I don't care how frustrated you are; you don't need to raise your voice at me." And as far as anger issues--I've never seen him do anything that makes me think he has anger issues. Once when DD was in the NICU he yelled at a drive-thru employee through the little box thing, but nothing that has ever bothered me. Anyway I don't know what's up with him. Its weird.

Then TODAY, he calls and says he thinks he knows a way for me to keep staying home a little longer. We were expecting that I would need to get a job at the end of 2012. He knows I really want to stay home (at least until I'm ready to go back!) but I was shocked by the conversation. What in the world is going on with him?


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## Mal85

Oh Kate, I wish your husband would convince mine. I'm having a mommy guilt day over here. Greta is refusing to nurse, she's preferring the bottle. I'm not responding well to the pump. Today I only pumped 6 oz while at work... she ate 12. I'm getting less and less with the pump the longer she goes refusing the breast. She'll take it from time to time, but it's very unpredictable. Sometimes, she'll start to and get frustrated waiting for the letdown, then just refuses to even try anymore. Other times, she starts screaming as soon as I pull the boob out. This is anytime of the day, although worse when she's tired. I'm keeping hydrated, eating lots of oatmeal, doing all I can think of to keep my supply up, but I know the real problem is I need her to nurse more. I'm feeling rejected and defeated by the whole thing. This wouldn't be an issue if I wasn't working. We already did away with our cloth diapers because we couldn't keep up with the laundry. Another thing that wouldn't have happened if I wasn't working. To have to give up breastfeeding too... I just feel like I was able to do so much more for Owyn than I'm able to do for Greta since I'm not home with her full time. I know she doesn't know the difference, but I do and it just kills me. The sacrifices I'm having to make for my baby just to work part time. Right now, it just doesn't seem worth it to me.

Okay, done with that rant for now...


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## Vegan Princess

Oh Mal - Hugs! That sounds rough. The only thought I had was maybe trying a lactaid to supplement at the breast - start off with it so she gets flow right away and then taking it out when your milk starts flowing? Also, are you using the slowest nipple? I really liked Breast Flow bottles. M got a strong bottle pref when we started supplementing with bottles and her latch got messed up. It got fixed by Breast Flow bottles bc they mimic nursing at the breast. You just go the best you with your situation and your baby will be fine either way!

Kate: That is wonderful news that you might be able to stay home longer!

Cindy


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## mckittre

Courtney - Happy birthday to Juniper!

Mal - Hugs! That sounds hard. You're a great mom to Greta, whatever your schedule is. She knows it.

Kate - I don't know, but maybe don't ask too many questions? Sounds like for whatever reason, he's decided its time to improve himself and his family's life.

Everr - Hope the FB message gets through this time

AFM - Sent K on a trial run to Head Start today and he had a great time. There are only 4 other kids there (and 2 adults), and he knows most of them, so it's a pretty nice setup. Kids are not technically allowed to go only 2 mornings a week, but I talked to the teacher and she says it's no big deal to just do it. So I guess I might go ahead and sign him up in a week or so when he turns 3. Kind of bittersweet to think that he's so old I'm sending him to school! But I think it'll be a good opportunity for him.


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## Thursday Girl

everr- i think the meeting other single parent thing happens easier when they are older. It really is hard to have a conversation when they are this age, but it will start to get easier. I have a friend who was his sons little league coach and is now dating the mother of one of the boys on his team. Let us know how it goes with bus guy.

Kate- how in the world did that work with your husband? I am not chatty unless I know someone and I am insanely curious about people who can just talk to anyone and make friends anywhere..also a bit jealous.

Mal, that sounds tough, I remember how hard i was when I went back to work after jewel and we managed to avoid nipple confusion. I hope the bottle Cindy reccomended will do the trick.

Erin, so glad headstart is working nicely.


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## Thursday Girl

Juniper on her 3rd birthday


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## AKislandgirl

She's gorgeous Courtney! Happy Birthday sweet girl!

Kate: Adding #2 was a much bigger change and transition for DH then #1 was. Maybe that is what is going on with your DH. Awesome that you may get to stay home longer!

Mal: That sounds so stressful! Hugs Mama! Like Erin said, Greta knows that you are a good mom no matter your schedule! I'm sorry things are so hard for you right now.

Everr: I think its great that you sent him a message on FB. I feel like my life is so engrossed in "kid" that I would have a hard time meeting new people too. In fact I do find it hard now- Good luck and hopefully it will get easier as R gets bigger and more independent.

Maeve has Fiona's cold full on. She normally wakes every few hours to nurse in the night and just falls right back to sleep. She was so stuffed up last night that she couldn't nurse well, was fussing and crying...ugh, it was a long night. Thankfully Fiona slept through it all. Today will be a watch movies in our jammies kind of day while I work on cleaning the house and folding the giant pile of laundry. DH gets home tomorrow, weather permitting. I've learned not to tell Fiona when he'll be home until I know the plane is going to land. Crossing fingers for good weather tomorrow. Forecast not so good.

This week away has been a good test run for me I think. DH will be gone for quite a while this summer and I was feeling anxious about it. I'm feeling better now. This wasn't really a long enough stretch to get in a groove but I know I can handle it better then I thought. Add to it better weather and more outside time and we should be good!


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## Nillarilla

Mal perhaps you could get Greta to reverse cycle.... Like nurse her a ton in the evenings and overnight and first thing in the morning before you leave. I've never gone back to work as early in the babes life but I did manage to nurse a year after going back to work. When I noticed my supply dipping (by my 4th 12hr shift) I would pump after every feed on my first day off for like 5 minutes a side. I also pumped a little bit extra every off day to make sure I had some of the extra fatty milk. It was always much easier to pump after baby had made let down occur. I also made sure babe nursed first thing in the am before I left and as soon as I got home. I made sure no bottles were given for 3 hrs before I got home. You're probably doing most of this but I hope something might help.


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## mckittre

Happy Birthday Juniper!

Sue - I hope the weather holds out for you guys. That's the aspect of winter travel in AK I hate most - someone being stuck on the way home.


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## Vegan Princess

How's everyone doing? I hope all the sickies are doing better! M is still snotty, coughing and crabby but much much better than before. DH and I are about the same as her, minus the crankiness.

Sue: Did DH make it home as planned?

Coutney: I hope Juniper had a great b-day!

Everr: Any response on Facebook?? 

AFM: I have my ultrasound tomorrow! Please send healthy/sticky baby vibes in my direction!! I'm driving up to my clinic that is almost 2 hours away. I'm bringing M with me (I usually got a sitter when I went for appointments before - but I am sick of paying so much money at this point). There is a huge train museum not too far from my Dr. that I'm planning to take her to after - god willing my appointment goes well! So that should help break up being in the car for so long. We're also stopping a feed store half way back that sells cheap chicken feed. I'm hoping they have some baby chicks for us to check out (not buy - just look at).

Speaking of chickens, my 4th and final hen finally laid her first egg 2 days ago! Unfortunately she laid it in the run, not in a nesting box, and it got broken by the other gals. Thankfully I got to it quickly before they ate it all! I'm proud to report that she laid her 2nd egg in a nesting box today! But now I am concerned about my buff orpington. She was our first layer and has always laid either every day or every other day (every other lately). But she hasn't laid an egg since Thursday. So she has skipped 3 days in a row. Is it normal for them to do this sometimes??? She still isn't even a yr old. She is eating and drinking and seems to be acting normal. I'm all freaked out that she's egg bound or something - though I have no idea why she would be all of the sudden.

Cindy


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## mckittre

We had Katmai's birthday party yesterday (though he won't actually be 3 until Tuesday). We had the kids do some beading for a few minutes, but mostly chaos reigned. It was fun. Katmai wanted a "cake with every kind of berries" so we made blueberry muffins with some strawberries and raspberries mixed in, and then made frosting by whipping berries with cream cheese and a little sugar. It was amazingly good.

Our present to him was a board game my husband and I created. We made a clover-shaped path that has 10 pictures for every season, and made little animal tokens with pictures of rabbits, ravens, squirrels, coyotes, and voles on them. Then we put a spinner in the middle that had 4 states: Hungry, Tired, Thirsty, and Scared. So you spin the spinner to find out whether your little bunny is hungry, tired, or whatever, then hop it along the board until you find somewhere for it to go eat, sleep, etc..., while telling the story of what the bunny is doing. No real way to "win" at this point (unless we add some rules), but K doesn't know about winning yet anyway, and he was really into it, and wanted to play all morning. Fun to make something ourselves that he really liked.


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## Thursday Girl

Cindy- I am thinking of you , crossing my fingers, praying, and everything else I could be doing.

I have had my chickens do that but when they did that it was really hot, is it cold where you are? sometimes that will get them laying a bit less I have heard.

Erin- sounds like a great party and those muffins sound awesome!

I have a midwife appt today, sometimes it almost hits me that I have just about 7 weeks left and then I brush it aside b/c there is still a birthday party and another kids birthday to think about before I shift gears to Coraline's impending birth. This morning I woke up thinking "man pushing the baby out is going to suck, I wonder what an epidural is like." Of course I won't be getting one. I did have a dream that I only pushed for 6 minutes it wasn't painful at all and she was indeed a girl when she was born which I was sort of surprised by.


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## starling&diesel

Cindy ... Sending you galloping heartbeat vibes!









Erin ... Awesome birthday! Yummy berry goodness! And the game sounds absolutely great! We have a game I keep meaning to mention here. Sneaky Snacky Squirrel.  E loves it much more than Candyland. I highly recommend it!

Courtney ... You've only got seven weeks left!?!?! How the heck did THAT happen! WOW! What a cute pic of J, by the way. Happy birthday to her, and happy birth day to you too! Is she playing with a toy phone? E is funny with her 'phone' ... she holds her palm up, taps it with her finger, scrolls a little, checks whatever she was checking (usually a fact ... ie. "Are dinosaurs still extinct, Mama? Oh, I know ... I'll check my phone.") and then puts it away in her pocket. So funny!

Hi Nilla ... Good to hear from you!

Ever ... How are you doing over there?

Sue ... Is Maeve feeling better? Hawksley got E's cold. I'm a little worried that it's RSV because our neighbour has it, and E and H's colds are lasting a looooooong time. I'm keeping a close eye on him. He's very congested and phlegmy, poor thing.

Kate ... How are you doing down there?

Mal ... I hope things even out with your wee nursling! Any change?

AFM: Still dealing with sickies. I'm dragging the whole family to Vancouver Island this week because I have to do a fewf author appearances over there. Not looking forward to it. I started H on a sippy cup this week. I wanted him to be off the Lact-Aid system by the time we go to Costa Rica. Well, he's off it. He seems fine with the sippy. I hope it doesn't make my supply take a nose dive. Makes feeding a lot easier, and DP can help too, which thrills her to no end. We did the LA with E for 8 months, so this is only half of how long I did it with her. Do you think it's bad to move him onto the sippy so soon? He nurses first, then I offer the sippy. Honestly, he's not topping up much. If it weren't for the fact that I temporarily dry up in the afternoon, I think I'd ditch the supp'ing altogether. We're going to start him on solids next month, likely. So long as he wants it. Bah. Low supply sucks.


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy: I hope the u/s goes great today! And my chickens take breaks in the winter usually due to lack of light. We have to put a heat lamp on them in the winter. We use a red light so it doesn't bother their eyes. But then our socket is used up and we can't put a regular light to stimulate laying. Anyway, hope that is all it is.

Erin: Your game sounds awesome! I want to play. I think Fiona would totally dig that. We have been playing candyland a bit but it gets to be a bit long and she just wants to move random figures. I like the not winning part! When we do play candyland we don't "win" either. We just say we are trying to get all the guys to the castle. And umm... yummm! Now I want a muffin!

Courtney: I can't believe how soon Coraline will be here! Woo Hoo!

DH made it home on time. Yeah! Fiona flipped her boots off as soon as we got in the door of the airport. She was wearing a dish towel as a cape and her hair was flying half way out of her braid and looking crazy. He just laughed and said yep, that's my girl. I hope she always has this wild spirit!

Do ay of you have any favorite blogs? Cindy I think you mentioned a parenting one. I read SouleMama every day and have started reading The Artful Parent for ideas. I'd love to know what you guys are checking out and feeling inspired by these days.


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## Everrgreen

AK - I can just picture Fiona at the airport, she sounds like such a fun girl  I have quite a few blogs I follow via fb. Positive Parenting Toddlers and Beyond posts a lot of great articles (some of their own, a lot are just shared from other blogs), Demand Euphoria, and for humour I really like Parenting Illustrated with Crappy Pictures and also Five Kids Is A Lot of Kids.

Starling - I think as long as you're nursing first each time than it shouldn't affect your supply too much. And even if it does just remember that your doing your best  Is it only the afternoon that's a problem with your supply? I think babies can make up what they need at other times with no problems. I hope everyone gets better and you have a fun time in Vancouver Island - I can't imagine having to be dragged there, I would love to go 

Courtney - Lol - I'm sure you'll do fine, you've done it 3 times before  Getting an epidural would scare me more than just doing it natural! And I love the pic of Junes, what a sweetheart 

Erin - Sounds like the party went great! I LOVE your game idea!! I don't play any board games with R.. Shameful I know.. I don't have the time or creativity to make anything but maybe I should buy something. The only games I have are puzzles and memory games.

Cindy - I am anxiously waiting an ultrasound update!!! I'm sure everything will look great. I'm so excited for you!! And I have no clue about your chickens  Actually I just saw in my local paper that a group wants a by-law passed to allow chicken coops in residential areas. So maybe someday I'll get a chicken or two!

AFM - No word from the bus guy.. He hasn't accepted or denied my friend request and he hasn't responded to my message. I've given up on him. My midterms started today, I have 3 this week, then next week I'm off for reading week, then 3 more midterms the next week. I also have 3 assignments to do over reading week, not due until mid-March but I want to make use of the week! So it will be busy!


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## Mal85

Cindy-- Can't wait for an update, I've been thinking of you!

Erin-- K's birthday party sounds perfect. I love the game idea, you are so creative!

Courtney-- 7 weeks already?! I bet your girls are getting so excited for the new baby!

Sue-- I love the story about Fiona, that sounds just like something Owyn would do.

Ever-- Good luck on the midterms!

Starling-- I hope H gets better. I have wondered the same about Owyn this winter. It feels like she's been coughing all winter long. She doesn't seem to feel bad otherwise, just has this cough that won't go away. It hasn't been passed to Greta yet, fingers crossed.

AFU: Owyn ended up getting sick last week, in the wee hours of Friday morning. DH had gone to lay down with her when she woke up and she ended up throwing up all over the bed. He had a test at work Friday, so I sent him back to bed with Greta and stayed up with her. She stopped throwing up around 5 in the morning, but by the time I felt comfortable putting her back to bed it was time for DH to get up and Greta was stirring. So, I got a sub for work and sent Greta to the sitter to keep her away from the germs (plus the fact that I'd already paid for the day...) and Owyn and I went back to bed for the morning. So far, no one else is throwing up. Greta has a little bit of a temp today though. I'm hoping it's just her teeth, I've been able to feel them coming up for about a week now. Owyn always spiked a fever just before a tooth broke through, so I'm hoping that's all it is for Greta. We were with my niece all weekend who ended up coming down with strep throat, so I'm really hoping that does not make the rounds.

Nursing is getting better, actually. She's been taking it pretty easily the last few days, as long as I don't wait until she's too tired to be patient with it. With her nursing strike, my freezer stash took a huge hit. We don't even have enough to get through a day at work right now. Today is a snow day for us (yay!), so I'm taking advantage and trying to pump as much as possible while I'm off.

Anyone have big plans for Valentine's Day?


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## Vegan Princess

Good news! We saw one baby, measuring exactly right on in one measurement and ahead in another. Heartbeat was 131 and I actually got to hear it this time! So neat! I did see a heartbeat about this point with my miscarriage pregnancy - but I also think I was measuring 3 days behind. The doc then didn't think anything of it bc it pretty closely matching the due date based on my last period - but based on ovulation it was 3 days slow. This time it exactly matches based on ovulation/conception. I asked this doc if that could have been a sign something was wrong already and he said yes. So hopefully things continue well! Please keep praying/sending healthy thoughts our way! I go back in 2 weeks.

As for my chickens. It's not overly cold here. Same as the past month or 2 when she was laying. The days are getting longer and the 3 chickens who didn't lay all fall or winter have started laying and she was laying that whole time but now is taking a break. So it's odd. I haven't looked to see if she laid one today yet but she hadn't at 9am.

Mal: Oh man, I'm sorry O got that stomach flu afterall! I hope Greta escapes it. And i'm so happy to hear nursing is going better!

Starling: Wow, H is taking to a sippy early! M coulnd't get the hang for ages! I think your supply is pretty established at this point so it should likely be fine. You can always go back if you notice him taking more supplement. It's funny bc we didn't start using the lactaid until 5 months! We kept with it until 15 months! But actually at around 10 months she started refusing a bottle altogether so I was stuck. Funny considering she had so many bottles before we started using the lactaid.

Everr: Sorry you didn't hear from the guy. I hope your exams go well. I know you'll do awesome - you always do. 

Courtney: 7 weeks! I'd have to think baby #4 would come fairly easily??

Oh favorite website: Imagination Tree and Play at Home Mom are my favorites. We copy tons of their ideas!

Valentines day. No big plans for tomorrow. I bought M a little heart caddy with some little things in it to have waiting for her in the morning. We've done loads of V-day cards and projects. We might go to the children's museum - I know they'll have v day art projects out. DH and Makenna went on an impromptu bart ride last night (like the subway - a mostly underground train. The stop is 2 blocks from our house). They ended up buying me a heart shaped box of chocolates from See's. M couldn't wait to give it to me so she gave it to me when they got home. So that's probably the extent of it!

Cindy


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## mckittre

Cindy - yay! I'm so happy to hear it's all going well.

Sue - K cannot understand buildings in which he is not supposed to take off his boots, and usually does so as soon as he goes inside.

Courtney - Wow, so soon! Are you getting excited yet?

Everr - good luck on the tests!

Hope all the sickies are better soon. Both of mine have had snotty noses for a week, but nothing more.

Valentine's Day - is Katmai's actual birthday! And Aubrey's too, right? Happy birthday to our Valentines! We did his party already, but might make some heart-shaped cookies today.

AFM - Took the kids on a long hike yesterday (only about 1/2 mile but that's long for K to walk through snow). I love exploring outdoors with him, but it is hard to be out for more than a couple hours without L getting bored. Having a 1 year old in the winter kind of sucks. In May or June she'll be able to walk outside, I expect, but until then it's just kind of hard. And K has been really loving the game I made and wanting to play every day. I did wonder if it was worth putting the effort in, but I guess I'm glad I did.


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## AKislandgirl

Happy Birthday Katmai! Erin, loved your blog post!

Starling: Are you using an open cup, sippy? I'm thinking of trying this with M. She wouldn't take a bottle the couple times we tried but I think DH would like to be able to offer her milk so I can go to yoga once a week. He perked up when i told him your H was already trying out a cup.

Cindy: Yeah Yeah yeah! Love hearing that heartbeat for the first time. Don't you feel like you could listen to it all day?! I'm so happy for you.

Thanks for the blog ideas Mamas!


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## Everrgreen

Happy Happy Birthday to Katmai and Aubrey!!! And Happy Birth Day to the Mamas!! 

Cindy - Woohoo!! You are in my thoughts - I'm so excited for you 

Mal - I hope everyone is healthy and stays healthy! Sick babies are so hard 

No Valentines plans here. Although last night R called me a "beautiful princess" so he's my special valentine this year ;o)

And another funny story: So we're still working on weaning and I told R a couple days ago that soon I won't have any milk anymore because he's a big boy and he doesn't need it. Well, yesterday after rummaging around in the kitchen by himself he came into the room with a glass of milk for me and said "Here mommy, this is milk for your boobies!" LOL! This kid cracks me up


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## starling&diesel

Cindy ... Yay for healthy heartbeats! Flourish and grow, little one! I've got bets on a boy.

Ever ... So funny!

Happy Birthday Katmai and Aubrey!

Sue ... H can drink out of an open cup (or laps morelike) but we mostly use playtex 4+ month sippy cups. Going well so far!

Mal ... How is O today?


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## justKate

Happy Birthday Katmai!

Here was Aubrey's birthday party at Grandma's last Saturday. It was a "pink" party, so we all wore pink.



She got way too many presents but had a great time, mostly chasing Grandpa's chickens around with a stick. And she got to play in the snow for the first time (that she can remember), which was lots of fun. It was just a little dusting, but very exciting nonetheless.









Now I need to catch up!

ETA: for some reason I can't shrink this photo. I thought I had it figured out on another thread but apparently not.


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: You guys both look adorable!

Erin: Has K started his preschool yet? How is it going?

Sue & Courtney: Could my chicken be molting?? She still hasn't laid in 5 days. I'm a worried chicken mama. She's only 10 mos old - seems young to molt. PLus she isn't losing feathers. Her butt looks scragly but I don't know if that could be from being egg bound or bc she is losing feathers? UGH! I may have to wrangle her into a box and take her to a vet that sees chickens for $25. How ridiculous have I become??? I just can't let her die if she is egg bound. But I also can't see myself giving her hot baths for 30 minutes at a time and sticking an olive oiled finger up her butt either!! Wish me luck!!

So M tried a little dance class today. It was more of a movement class. She told the story of Jack & The Beanstalk and had the kids move to it. Very cute. For the kids that actually participated! I wanted to see if M would cling to me or get involved. Just as I suspected, she clung to me and freaked out if I tried to separate myself. I was a bit surprised bc it was in the space her old preschool used - so very familiar to her. And she knew half the kids. I knew she shuts down in circle times so I thought this might happen. Ah well, maybe when she is older.

Cindy


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## justKate

So anyway we went up to my parents' house last Friday and stayed through Monday. My brother and SIL made a surprise visit from the UK, which was nice, but everyone was sort of pissed that they didn't have any notice, especially the family that lives out of town/state. But whatever, that's how he wanted it. So there was lots going on all weekend. Saturday my mom had a pink party for Aubs, and then we mostly just hung out all weekend. Driving home yesterday (3.5 hours), we saw the neatest thing. I grew up in this area, and was only out of state for 6 years or so. Since we've gotten back, I see what I think are bald eagles all the time, which was super rare in the '80s and '90s. Yesterday we saw one fly off, maybe 20 feet ahead of us on the road, carrying a giant groundhog. It must have been five lbs. worth of groundhog, all torn up and swinging in this eagle's claws. Awesome. I mean, not the dead groundhog part, but the hunting eagle part. Probably not a big deal elsewhere, but it was pretty neat to me.

Today is Aubs' birthday, so she had her choice of breakfast (strawberry pancakes) and she got this scooter from Mommy and Daddy. I bought it on clearance back in November for Christmas ($23.00 on clearance!) but she got enough other stuff then...really she got enough for her birthday, too, but I figured we ought to get her something. So she's been riding it in the kitchen, and I guess we'll take it outside once she seems to have the hang of it. After nap we took her to Chuck E. Cheese, and I have no idea why we did. It was awful. All of the toddler games were old and junky or broken. We should have gone to the bounce house. Never again. Not that she noticed. For the last couple of weeks we've been telling her that once she's 3 she'll sleep in her little bed (toddler bed in our room) all night instead of going to sleep in mommy & daddy's bed, being moved, getting back in our bed before dawn, etc. And tonight she actually did it. She went to sleep in her toddler bed and stayed there. We'll see if she stays until the sun comes up, like I asked her to. Fingers crossed that this is the start of something new and not just good luck! I really like cuddling with her early in the morning, but the moving her at night part is getting old. And it was hard for me to get in the toddler bed and cuddle her per her request before bed, but definitely worth it if she starts staying there.

Courtney, I think you're a week ahead of me, right? I'm EDD 4/6. I feel like I have so much to do and nothing to do at the same time. I know, rationally, that we don't need anything, but the urge is powerful! I guess we do need a name still. I blame DH for that.

Cindy, hooray for a little heartbeat and right-on-dates measurement! Aubs measured a little behind from the very beginning, but I wasn't 100% sure of my conception date that time. Remind me, how big was M and did she measure right on? As for the chickens, you don't feel any eggs backed up in there? Is she acting normal otherwise--socializing and not being picked on? I just ask because my dad has one chicken that stopped laying about 2 weeks ago while the others continued, and it turns out, she was being bullied by two others. He split the coop in half (put the two fat yellow ones like Sue has on one side, and the RI Reds and two mostly black ones with the "not supposed to be a rooster" rooster on the other). Well the non-layer started laying again but still won't leave the coop or socialize. She's still traumatized. And her buddy that was put over there to keep her company is now feeling isolated, and has stopped laying. Chickens must be the dumbest animals ever.

Oh, one more suggestion, seeing your last post. Could you grab that chicken and bring her inside in a dog crate or something, to see if it changes anything? My dad's outcast chicken perked up a lot when he did that. I was thinking maybe her butt looks scraggly from the others picking on her.

Erin, I can see how it would be hard to manage a 1 year old in the winter there. I love K's cake, it looks delicious! When does your weather start to warm (well, I know its not really warm, but relatively speaking)? So I ended up buying a neobulle in violette off of diaperswappers. I couldn't help myself. DH was on overnight duty and it was between buying a wrap or finishing a pan of brownies. No self control here. I'm going to find some youtube videos to learn how to wrap a little one and either practice with Aubs or with a baby doll. I think Aubs will find that entertaining.

Mal, hopefully you can build the stash back up. It really sucks to have to stress about how much is there, how much they're getting, how much is being wasted when they don't finish a bottle. Ugh. My only advice was going to be a slower flow nipple for the bottles, and nursing as much as possible through the night. Hopefully it was just a strike.

Ever, so funny about the weaning conversation. Wish I could be a fly on the wall for those. R just seems so logical. I love how his world just makes sense. And boo about the bus guy, but good on you for taking a chance. Think of it as practice for something bigger and better!

I really wish I had stuck it out and nursed Aubs longer. She doesn't remember nursing at all, I don't think. Its like she knows she has an affection for boobies, but doesn't know why. And she can't keep boobies and blueberries straight.

"When the baby sister get here, she eat from the blueberries?" (Pointing at my chest.)

"Yes baby, just like you did when you were little."

"No, my eat cereal with milk."

"After you came out of mommy's belly, you ate from mommy's boobies. That's what boobies are for. Feeding babies."

"Oh. My little sister likes cereal with milk. My will help her."

"Okay honey."

I'm going to make it to 2 years this time, at least.

Sue, too cute about Fiona in the airport! Glad DH got back safely.

Starling, hope everyone feels better soon! Sick babes are no fun at all.

Nilla, Hi! Hope everything is going alright with you.

As for me, eight weeks to go here. Nothing interesting to speak of. Seeing a chiropractor for the first time on Thursday because of pain in my hips--sciatica, I think? But of course its better this week than it has been for months. I'm going anyway, but it sort of sucks because my insurance doesn't cover any chiro care. On the first of March I have to see an OB instead of a midwife to get final "approval" for my VBAC. Not that there's any reason they would say no, but I'm anxious about it anyway. I also am supposed to meet again with my doula sometime this month....she says she likes to meet in person around now and then about 3 weeks before the EDD. So I guess that's something to look forward to.

Thanks for the blog/website suggestions. I'm going to check them out too! Now I should probably go to sleep....I'm sure Aubs will be up with the sun as agreed.


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## Vegan Princess

Kate: I wish M would sleep in a toddler bed! We bought a twin but she won't sleep in there. now I think we may buy a toddler bed and put her crib mattress in. She claims she will sleep in a toy story toddler bed right next to my side. DH and I are so uncomfortable - she takes up more space lately. But I don't want to jinx anythign by buying the toddler bed - even though it really isn't just bc I am pregnant. So I am going to not try that idea until a couple months from now. Plus I'm afraid I'll buy the bed and she still won't sleep in it.

Thanks for the chicken ideas. She has always been our alpha chicken. She picks on the others. Mostly they all get along though. My thought it that now that the others are laying, another has taken over as alpha chicken? The one not laying used to be loud and talk so much. Now she isn't talking. And the other one is making up for it. I'm still watching her. She still isn't acting sick. Just quiet and not laying. So I'll give her a few more days. It is stressing me out though.

Oh and did M measure on target? I have no idea. With Makenna, I only had 1 u/s at 16 weeks! She was on target then. Very hands off preg. I think I will have 5 this time! My nerves need it though!

Cindy


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## justKate

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Thursday Girl*
> 
> Kate- how in the world did that work with your husband? I am not chatty unless I know someone and I am insanely curious about people who can just talk to anyone and make friends anywhere..also a bit jealous.


Just realized I never shared! Kinda late but its funny.... Huz was on a blind date with some girl, and they sat in the bar area, where I was their waitress. Other people arrived and joined them, and he paid for his and hers, and then left. Like 3 hours later he came back and sat at the bar and had a beer and chatted with some regulars. They moved to a table (one of my tables, so I wasn't going to get any customers there, so I was annoyed) and he asked me to get him a beer. I told him to go to the bar and get it himself, since he had a tab there and was taking up my table. (I really don't have a bad attitude, its just that the regulars bugged me because they made a mess and paid at the bar, so I got nothing for what i did for them.) So he cashed out his check at the bar and then sat at my table and ordered a beer.







He stayed until closing with the regulars and asked if he could call me--I told him to F-off...he insisted, the regulars teased him, teased me...in the end, I gave him my phone number but told him that he couldn't call until finals were over in a week (this was my 1st year of law school). He waited exactly a week to call. And things sort of worked out from there. We got married about a year later. Honestly, I was in a place where I wasn't open to dating at all, and just focusing on me. I surprised myself when I agreed to meet him. But I figured life is full of risks, and one cup of coffee with a stranger wouldn't hurt me. So once I stopped caring, dating seemed easier.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess*
> 
> Kate: I wish M would sleep in a toddler bed! We bought a twin but she won't sleep in there. now I think we may buy a toddler bed and put her crib mattress in. She claims she will sleep in a toy story toddler bed right next to my side. DH and I are so uncomfortable - she takes up more space lately. But I don't want to jinx anythign by buying the toddler bed - even though it really isn't just bc I am pregnant. So I am going to not try that idea until a couple months from now. Plus I'm afraid I'll buy the bed and she still won't sleep in it.


What if you just got some toy story decals and put them on a wall down low around the crib mattress next to your bed? I definitely wouldn't spend too much on a toddler bed. I kind of wish we had just done a twin size, because now if this babe DOES sleep/nap in a crib I'm screwed. I'm expecting new babe to go right in between me and DH like Aubs did, but if she's one of those amazing sleep-for-six-hours-from-birth babies I'll probably give a crib a shot. There's going to be a lot more wait and see this time around!


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## Thursday Girl

Kate we had that same agreement with Junes, that when she was 3 she would fall asleep in her own bed...she's refusing. We did go straight to a twin bed with the 2nd 2. first was in a crib and then we lowered the rail so it was like a toddler bed (and way unsafe but we didn't realize)

love the story Kate. Thanks.

we did decals on the wall to get her in her bed. it sort of worked but she won't fall asleep in her bed.


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## AKislandgirl

I keep posting at the same time as people!

Happy belated birthday to Aubrey! Kate, you guys look beautiful! I love the story of how you guys met.

The kids are still snotty. This cold seems to be lasting forever. Ugh.

I've been thinking a lot about my niece lately. She is currently undergoing chemo and tomorrow will get a bone marrow transplant from her brother. Please pray for them and that this does the trick. She turned 15 on her first day of chemo.


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## mckittre

Cindy - I'm so glad the ultrasound went well. Is there a stage at which you'll be able to breathe easier about this one, or is it going to be hard to relax into being pregnant?

Sue - I'm thinking of your niece. I had a cousin who had lymphoma at about that age. She's in her 20s now, and doing great.

Kate - That's an awesome story. I said no when my husband first asked me out (in college). Then said yes a few weeks later. And it's not so much that it's super cold here (it's been in the 20s and 30s lately), but that the ground is covered with slippery irregular snow a 1 year old can't walk on and will be until sometime in May.

Beds - I guess I'm super lucky K starts in his bed and stays there through the night 90% of the time. I wonder if it was because I started working on it when he was 18 months or so? (we don't have room for 4 in our bed). I suspect that something just clicked with him though. It was hard, then one day it was easy. Similar for leaving him to be babysat by others, sleeping without nursing, etc...

AFM - Just filled out all the paperwork for Head Start (there's a lot!), so K should be able to start next week. He went as a guest again yesterday, and had a great time again, so I think it'll be a good thing. And as soon as my scones are done, we're off snowshoeing a local creek. We've been trying to turn Thursdays into a family hike day.


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## Everrgreen

3 midterms down and now reading week! I'm exhausted tonight, R and I are going to watch a movie and have popcorn, but really I'm ready to go to sleep NOW.


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## Thursday Girl

everr- parenting tip- sleep while he watches the movie









getting ready for the big birthday party. still need to make sandwiches. Hubs ran to the store. I was up before 6 making cupcakes as the dog ate ELEVEN while we were gone yesterday. Also need to paint the numbers on the pinatas we made. they are in the bathroom with the heat on so they can dry in time. (I am wearing shorts and a t-shirt so you can understand what the weather here in florida is like. The bathroom is pretty unbearable.)


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## Everrgreen

Courtney - Yeah that would have been a good idea! I'm usually trying to sleep before R as it is. Usually we go to bed and he continues to play/look at books/chatter away all on the bed beside me while I'm pretending to sleep lol! He is such a night owl!

So, R has picked up another lovely idea at daycare that I will need to talk to his teachers about. The other night I picked him up and his cousin and R stole a toy from his cousin as I was buckling them in, I took the toy and gave it back to cousin and R said "I'm going to get a real gun and shoot you!"







I was not impressed and told him that was a very scary thing to say and it made me sad. He seemed to get it and I didn't hear him say it again. Then my mom picked him up Friday and I'm not sure what happened but he said to her "I'm going to get a real gun and take it to daycare and shoot people" WTF!!! My mom was obviously very concerned about this. And I am too. When he initially said it to me I asked him who he heard say that and he said the name of another boy in his class. I will be having a major discussion with his teachers. I know that kids pick up stuff, but this just seems way over the top.


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## mckittre

Everr - How did the tests go? That does sound like a very dramatic thing for R to say, but he probably doesn't really understand what it means? And the other boy he heard it from probably doesn't either.

Courtney - How was the party?

Starling - since you were the one who introduced me to Starfall... How much do you let E play it? This is the first time ever that K has played a computer game (he doesn't watch TV), and he loves it. On the one hand, I guess he's learning stuff, and it is kind of impressive how quickly he's figured out how to play the little phonics games where you pick out the correct letter to spell a word. On the other hand, I kind of worry that video games are designed to suck people in and steal all of their time!


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## Thursday Girl

The party was awesome. Kids every where, climbing trees, playing in the creek, playing tug of war, just generally running around having a great time.


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## starling&diesel

Looks like a great party, *Courtney*! Where's a picture of you and your fabulous belly, woman???

*Kate* ... Funny story about meeting your husband! You were definitely playing hard to get!

*Cindy* ... How's your chicken? And how's your wee belly? Nausea? Food cravings or aversions? Dish away!

*Sue* ... Thinking of your niece. How are your sickies? I figure we had RSV at our house. It's been going around. We're all on the mend here, at long last. Our 'cold' lasted three weeks! Insane!

*Erin* ... Starfall: we use it very little. Maybe half an hour a week? I wouldn't mind using it more, say 15 mins a day, because E gets a lot out of it, in terms of her phonics learning and comprehension, but I never offer it. I wait until she remembers, which is very rarely. It goes like this, she remembers, plays for 15 mins (my max), then usually remembers the next day, then usually forgets the day after that, and doesn't ask again for a long while. I agree with you on video games!

*Ever* ... That's horrendous! I would be so concerned. I guess it's par for the course with young ones, but it's still disturbing that some child is bringing those ideas into the daycare at all. Once the idea is there and the children have the vocabulary, then they're going to run with it in their imaginative play.


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## starling&diesel

Oh! I meant to ask all you mamas a question ... what do you do (or will you do) with all your teeny tiny bitty chokeable things when baby number two is close to crawling? Of course, I know to put them away, but I need to be a little strategic about E's bean bin. It's the ONE and ONLY thing she enjoys every single day. She plays with those beans all day long. Measuring, serving, sorting, counting, hiding treasures in them, finding treasures, sitting in it, etc. Should I tell her she can only play with them in her room, or in the kitchen? She never goes in her room ... not ever. And the kitchen is attached to the living room. Or is that still too risky? Thoughts?


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## Vegan Princess

Everr: Yay for making it through those tests! You made me want popcorn!! I'd be upset about those comments too. I hope Starling is right that maybe he doesn't full understand what that means. But I would for sure be talking to someone at daycare!! I imagine you were shocked!! It's always a funny feeling when your child says something that you know they did not learn from your household - but you hope it's a positive thing!

Courtney: Looks like a fun day. I too want belly pics!

RE video games: We let M play Cupcakes or this dora phonics game on the ipad. She doesn't play too long and also only when she asks or if I have a dr appt I might bring it (been a lot of those lately!). But I too feel like it's just another thing for her to be sitting on her butt doing instead of playing. She is a tv addict and I hate that. Yet I can't seem to bring myself to get rid of tv altogether bc it truly is my only break!

My chicken seems to just have stopped laying but she is still fine. So I'm guessing she isn't sick, just not laying. Been like 10 days with no egg. Who knows.

AFM: I think morning sickness might be starting. I have been feeling ick after eating certain things a lot the past couple days. Even after drinking water in the morning. Certain things sound super yuck. I don't throw up though - just feel ick. Don't love the feeling but it makes me happy to have this - it's gotta be a better sign than not having it. Nothing much else to report. My next u/s isn't until a week from tomorrow.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

Yeah I'll feel better once I've talked to the teachers. I just think they should know (if they don't already) and I want to let them know I'm not happy about this. I know it's not there fault but I'm angry.

I think I did pretty well on the midterms. I still have 3 left after reading week. And I have some assignments I want to get started on. But I'm enjoying relaxing a bit this weekend  I went shopping and picked up a bunch of stuff on clearance for R for next year. And today I took him sledding for the first time at a real hill. It was SO much fun. But it was pretty steep and after we got there a bunch of bigger kids showed up and it was a big dangerous.  He wants to go again tomorrow but I'm going to find a different place to go.

Cindy - I'm sorry you're having morning sickness but you're right, it's also a good thing!! R would be a tv addict if we had one. He always wants to watch shows on the laptop :/ I get so frustrated trying to get him to PLAY!

Starling - Hmm, that's tough. My first though is to save it for when the baby's napping.. But maybe if she can play with it on a table that H can't reach? It would really suck to disappoint her if it's favourite thing. Can you baby-gate the kitchen off?

Courtney - I browsed all the bday photos on fb. It looks like you all had an awesome day! Your girls are so beautiful and they look like so much fun 

RE Starfall/other games - R doesn't get how to use the mouse.. Is that odd for his age (HA, that's such a 21st century question ) Maybe he just needs more practice..


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## Mal85

Everr: That kind of comment would concern me too. I agree that R and the other boy probably don't understand what they're saying, but I would still bring it up with his teacher. Speaking as a teacher, I'd want to know if games like that were being played in my classroom so I could address it. I have a few little boys who like to play guns in my class and it is a HUGE no-no.

Courtney: That party looks fantastic! Wish I could have been there!

Starling: I've been thinking about the crawling baby dilemma a lot too. It's really why I went crazy with organizing Owyn's toys recently. I realized she had a lot of small pieces and no place to put them away where Greta couldn't get to them. So, I started there. I've also started encouraging her to play with things on a higher surface. Like when she gets her food out, to "prepare" it on the kitchen set or her table, not on the floor. Greta is working very hard at rolling over right now and I know that is just the beginning step to full mobility, so I'm in prepare mode now!

Cindy: Yay for morning sickness! I know it sucks while it's happening, but it is a great sign!

Video Games: I showed Starfall to Owyn, but she also had trouble figuring out how to use the mouse. I think if I had a touchpad or something touchscreen she'd be able to do it better, but the mouse trips her up. She has an iXL game though, like a handheld video game. She plays with that every now and then. It's mostly brought out for longer car trips to entertain her. I put it away when we're at home and let her use it if she asks for it. She does kind of like E, she'll play with it for a couple of days then forget about it until the next long car trip when I get it back out.

AFU: We are-- hopefully!-- on the mend here. I caught Owyn's stomach bug this week and still feel like I'm recovering from it 3 days later. As much as it sucked, it has been entertaining watching DH figure out how to parent on his own with the girls. I've been pretty useless. Between Greta's nursing strike last week and me getting sick this week, nursing has taken a huge hit. She is finally interested in nursing again, but my milk supply has dwindled. So, we're working on that...

Owyn is getting very excited for her birthday party. It's pretty much all she talks about right now and is constantly listing off the people she wants to come to her birthday party!


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## Thursday Girl

Everr- My now 6 year old had trouble with the mouse for a long time, i was actually surprised when Junes got it because Josie had just recently gotten it. So she was a young 5 before she was adept at it. Jo is just not so much into or that good at technology.

here is the belly, these pants push it flat but you get the idea


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## mckittre

Courtney - Looks like a fun party! So weird for me to see outdoor scenes with T-shirts and no snow! I really do live in a different world up here... And how soon is Coraline coming? I forget.

Cindy - glad you're trying to see the good side of morning sickness

Everr - I so wish we could get K to go sledding! I don't think he likes the fast out-of-control feeling (I'm similar for some things, so I kind of get it). So we're stuck with winter biking on his tiny little balance bike.

Crawling/Walking babies - We've mostly just had K use small stuff up on the table. For awhile, we tried to put it away, but a lot of the tiny stuff is his favorite (like Legos), and saving it for naptime really isn't enough (L only naps maybe an hour a day, and it's usually while we're out). And at 1, she doesn't put everything in her mouth anymore, but definitely still does it. The only thing I completely put away and haven't gotten back out is marbles. I do keep a bit of a closer eye on L when K is playing with small stuff, though.

Video games - K doesn't use a regular mouse, but can use the trackpad on a laptop (only kind of computer I have). He was frustrated the first time, but got it pretty quickly. I should institute a 15 min rule. It's hard because he has so much fun with it, and it's so easy to take advantage of that time! With him occupied and no sibling conflicts, I can clean up, cook, all kinds of things... All of this is so new to him though, maybe he'll stop asking for the game soon.


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## Thursday Girl

I did what Erin did regarding small objects.

computer time- Junes has way too much some days, an embarrassing amount some days.

I have 6 more weeks to go until Coraline arrives.


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## starling&diesel

You look amazing, *Courtney*! Thanks for the picture!

*Mouse skill* ... We have a laptop, so she uses the trackpad. She'll do it by herself for a while, but often I help her out when she gets frustrated and wants to do the game faster than she can use the trackpad. She'll point to the screen, and I'll take the cursor there. My mom has an ipad, and E is in love with it. It's so easy for her to do Starfall on it! I'd love one, but can't justify it right now. It's basically our airfare to Costa Rica, so I guess we chose CR over the ipad.

*Baby proofing* ... We never baby proofed at all with E, because she wasn't the type of baby to get into trouble that way. But we were able to concentrate our efforts much more easily, and now with H too, I feel like I'm a bit behind in all that. Thanks for your tips, mamas. I think we'll keep the beans where they are right now and have us grown ups be responsible for the baby, and then when we go away to CR, perhaps we'll use that time to move them into the kitchen so she can use them there when we get back. I'm hoping she might forget about them when we're gone.


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## justKate

Computer time--is it bad that we don't do any at all? We have 2 laptops but they're always closed and "off limits." Aubrey is really only interested in looking at pictures, which I let her do on the phone or camera. And we have a few seasons of different kids shows on the "tv" (a computer hooked up to our tv) that asks to watch pretty regularly. I think she watches at least one tv show at preschool when she goes there, too. Because she's in the 2.5-3 year room, about 1/3 of the kids are not potty trained and the rest need major help on the potty, so pottying them all before lunch takes a bit of distraction. I think they watch Leap Frog videos, or Dora.







Its sort of embarrassing that I pay for that, but a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do....

Daycare--Erin, how did K do at Head Start? Hopefully he enjoyed it. Ever, I'd be pissed about the gun talk, and I'm anxious to hear what the teachers say. Maybe there's a problem with another child that they're aware of already, but either way, they need to know that other parents are noticing. Strangely Aubs hasn't come home with too many new sayings, just "behaviors." Like grabbing things from me, swinging things in the air that shouldn't be swung (my yard stick, for example). Spitting food back out on her plate. We haven't dealt with the gun play yet, although if she were a boy I'm sure someone would have given her gun-related toys by now. But really, I think this is too young for "gun play" if it is ever appropriate. So far we've dealt with toy kitchen knives (we don't point those at people). And I'm really not okay with gun toys. Some people have guns that they keep for their jobs. Some people use them to get food. That's pretty much my planned approach.

Speaking of toys I dislike: Aubs got a Barbie for her birthday, and it came with a little sister (Stacy?). I mean I had barbies at least by 4 years old, but really, they just bug me. And its not the fact that she's still shapely despite her augmentations--its the skirt, the dyed blonde hair, the low shirt, the platform heels...even the little sister has heels on. She doesn't really like dolls all that much anyway. I always think of that as the type of thing she should want before I just give it to her, kind of like having her ears pierced. I kept the box. Would it be mean to consign it or just keep it for a year down the road? I also kept back a bunch of lip gloss, plastic jewelry, and nail polish my Aunt got for her. Why is the world in such a hurry to sexualize my child? I like that she still uses "him" and "her" interchangeably.

Courtney, you don't look like you're 34 weeks! It seems so soon when its you, but I feel like its far off from me, even though I think I'm less than a week behind.

Cindy, hooray for morning sickness! There is something reassuring about it.

As for me, met with my doula again tonight. I really love her more the more often I see her. Tonight she brought her bag of goodies that she takes to each birth to show me, so that was fun. (Rice socks, birth balls in case there isn't one avail., massage oils, rebozo, speakers for her iPad in case we want music.) She also had a neat 4-page chart showing different positions you can use on/near a hospital bed if you're on monitoring. I had no idea those beds could be moved around so much! (Courtney, would that be useful for you, or will you only be doula-ing homebirths? She's going to email it to me and I could forward it to you if you think it would be useful.)

Now I'm off to find another snack....


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## Thursday Girl

Kate- it could be useful. I'd love a copy of it. My supplies for birth are very limited for a variety of reasons. Just not sure if I will be following the doula path soon. I love working with pregnant women but I think we aren't really in a great position for me to be heading out for unannounced long periods of time. There will be the baby and then their is Hubs schedule that isn't really a schedule and every time I left we'd have to split up the kids among friends.

-You are due the 6th right? My original DD was the 1st but they changed it at the ultrasound to the 4th. That picture was taking at 33 weeks and a half. as for the barbie, get rid of it. they will have so many toys in and out of their life that honestly this one barbie will never matter. no need to compromise on what you think. we dabbled in barbie occasionally and I always hated them, finally I just tossed them all (and by toss I mean donate) but one generic fairy barbie that Josie wanted and Hubs bought her because she really wanted it. She never plays with it, I have no idea where in the house it actually is, but when i tried to get rid of that one Hubs was not okay since she had specifically wanted it.

computer/TV- so i didn't let my kids on the computer or watch tv at all yesterday...it was awesome. they got so creative. I will be limiting them a lot more regarding screen time. I used to limit a lot more before I got pregnant and then I just got lazy or as my friend says, it's not that I was lazy it was that I am pregnant , tired and usually on my own. Still, I had a choice and i chose to be lazy and let my kids in front of screens too much b/c it was easier. BUT really once they get used to not being in front of the screen they get creative, they do other things and they don't get all whiny and moaning when I say it's time to turn it off. I mean they have full scale breakdowns sometimes when i turn off the tv or computer. So which IS easier??

Mal that's cute about the birthday party, Junes was talking about hers constantly too. Can't wait to see pictures from it. Are you feeling better yet? As for hubs, it's probably best to just throw them in the deep end. LOL.

Starling- I would make them play with it on the table or put them in their room with the door closed so the baby couldn't get in their. Part of it isn't even the chockables thing, just that the baby would destroy what they are doing and that frustrated them.

AFM- my throat has been burning the past 2 mornings I woke up. We got new chicks yesterday for the girls birthday present (of course they each got a present on their actual birthday too...well jewel will in March) 2 bantams and a barred rock. Ella, Misery and E. (E is what Junes calls her best friend Erin). We wanted an auracauna but they didn't have any. we might get one later.


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## Mal85

Owyn recently started asking for a Barbie. I wasn't sure how to handle it. On the one hand, I had Barbies growing up and I loved them. I have fond memories of playing with Barbies. Most of which include stuffing clothes inside their clothes to make them "pregnant" and then having them give birth and have babies. I guess I started practicing young! On the other hand, there just seems to be a stigma surrounding Barbies and I wasn't sure if I wanted to start that here. She does play with them, though. All her cousins have Barbies and she loves them. So, we decided to get her one for Valentine's Day. I spent an obscene amount of time looking through the Barbie aisle at the store trying to find one that wasn't sexualized. I finally settled on a Barbie and Stacie pair that came with a puppy. Their hair wasn't done up much, their outfits were tasteful, and they were both wearing hiking boots instead of heels. It was a little sad how long it took me to find one I was okay with buying though. The look on Owyn's face to be receiving her very own Barbie was worth it though. She just lit up and said "Oh thank you, Mommy!" and I received the biggest hug I've gotten from her in a loooong time. She's been playing with it pretty much non-stop since she got it.

Is anyone else noticing how much our big babies are not babies anymore?? I've always heard that half years are the hardest. 1.5 was a hard age, 2.5 was hard. Now, she is finally growing into a strict 3 year old and not 2.5 year old anymore. I feel the need to knock on some wood because she has actually been a joy the last couple of weeks! She expressing her wants and needs. She is becoming able to bounce back when she doesn't get her way. If I can catch her before she gets too upset, get her to look me in the eye while I explain to her why I'm telling her no, then she will usually move on very quickly. It's really great to be able to communicate with her so well right now.

Oh and another thing she started asking for... earrings. Her best friend came over for a playdate and she had gotten her ears pierced for her birthday so Owyn has latched on to that idea this week. She even told me she needed to "go to the store and have the person push the earrings in my ear". I have no idea where she would have seen someone getting their ears pierced so I'm curious where she got such an accurate description of the process...


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## AKislandgirl

Hi guys- been having a hard time finding time to sit and write. Feeling a little stressed around here...

Maeve is teething and is super crabby and often doesn't want to be set down. I forgot how hard teething can be on little ones.

My niece is doing pretty well. She had her bone marrow transplant on Friday and did not have an allergic reaction to it which is the first hurdle. We will know in a couple of weeks if her body has accepted or rejected it. We are thinking about her constantly.

This pales in comparison but I think our dog is dying. She has had ongoing issues for some time but usually has lots of time in between her flare ups of being sick where she seems happy and healthy. Those "happy and healthy" times are fewer and fewer. We are weeks into her last sick period and she still isn't 100% and has lost so much weight. DH is bringing her to the vet to find out how we can just get her comfortable until it's obvious that the end is here. Breaks my heart really.

We are bringing F to Anchorage for her allergy testing next week. I'm so anxious to know how that is going to turn out. The fun news is that some really close friends from Sitka are there now and are even staying at the same place that we are. We haven't seen them since our wedding 6.5 years ago. They are there so she can have a VBAC.

Even though we still have tons of snow on the ground I saw some signs of spring the other day. Flowers coming up in front of the library! Hooray!

Kate: I'd totally sell the Barbie! I'm not a fan of hers.

Everr: I'd be upset about gun talk too. Yikes! Fiona knows guns are for hunting but has never "played gun."

Courtney: love the party pics! I had the same reaction as Erin- sundresses!

Little pieces: Not tons of stuff like that around here but we have been practicing with F with the few things she does have to keep them up and clean up as soon as we are done playing with them.


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## AKislandgirl

Fiona spotted Diego underwear at the store the other day. She was thrilled! So now she's rockin' some sweet little boy briefs!


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## Thursday Girl

wow Sue that is a lot going on. I am still praying for your niece, I am so glad there was no allergic reaction and I am sorry your dog isn't doing well. How is Maeve big enough to be teething already? (she is super cute! I love the wool overalls, and super cute Fiona with her diego underoos. My oldest would wear underrooos, but the other 2 don't like them so much, especially Juniper I had to talk her into wearing a pair that was yo gabba gabba and she's obsessed with yo gabba gabba! (she had soiled her panties and we were at a boys house.


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## Everrgreen

AK - I'm sorry you have so much going. I've been thinking of your niece and I have a letter ready to send to her  I want to get Royce to do a picture or something too. I'm glad to hear she's made it through the first hurdle!

Mal - Every once in a while R does something and I'm just left speechless.. Who is this KID?? Where did my BABY go?? And then other times he has baby moments (especially when he's sleeping..) and it's sweet. I think a new baby probably makes them seem even more grown up!

Courtney - I have the same problem with TV (well, laptop with shows) with R. I like to use it as a break.. But it causes huge tantrums when I have to turn it off. Or huge tantrums if I don't want him to watch it. If it wasn't an option at all then he would be forced to just go and play. But sometimes it is so nice to have!


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## Everrgreen

Kate - Ugh, that's annoying.. I would get rid of it. If someone got R a gift I didn't want him to have (toy gun, for example), I would pass it on for sure! I'm glad everything is going well with your doula!!

AFM - I spoke with R's teacher this morning and she had not heard any of the kids talking about real guns and shooting people. She said they are definitely against gun play and do not allow it at all. I made sure she knew that I was really upset about this and she seemed concerned about it. R hasn't said it again so at least that's good. I know there's nothing really she can do about it other than keep an ear out for that kind of talking.


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## mckittre

Sue - I'm thinking of your niece. I hope the transplant takes. And I hope you get some answers for F from the allergy tests. Sorry things are hard right now. L is a late teether (just got her top 2 teeth) and has gone through several periods lately of "I will whine and cry the moment you set me down" And of course it's worst right when I'm cooking dinner, and K is starving, etc...

Mal - They are indeed so big. My little boy just went cheerily off to school again today! And of course there are some tantrums, but I do feel this is a good age - for the most part K is really pleasant to be around, and it's more fun to play with him now as his pla gets more and more creative.

Kate - if the Barbie were something my kid adored, I'd keep it. It sounds like Aubs doesn't care though, so you might as well ditch it.

Everr - the whole "gun" thing is one of my main concerns about K going to head start. He doesn't care about guns in the slightest now, has never even tried to play that way. But I know some of the older boys at Head Start do (though it's not allowed there either).

Screen Time: Well, I have been using a 15 min timer for Starfall with pretty good success (he'll go nuts if you try to stop him in the middle of making a word, but is OK doing it once its over). On the other hand, I sort of inadvertently taught him how to use Google Image Search the other day (we were answering a question about the number of wheels on a jet). Now all he wants to do is type words into the computer (like jet, dog, cat, etc... with help) and search for the pictures!


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## AKislandgirl

Thank you for all the thoughts and prayers for my niece. I have total faith that she is going to get through this!

Erin: F loves google images. She likes to crawl on our lap and tell us certain animals to search. Cougar was interesting...


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## Nillarilla

Sue - Sending successful transplant vibes to your niece. A suggestion for the allergy testing bring something like a stuffed animal that she can curl herself around and hold on your lap. They wanted my son to keep his arms out of the way and kind of bend forward and he was on dh's lap. I think it would have been easier if he could have sat cross legged hugging a stuffy. I never thought to bring his bear. I told him it was going to hurt and that it was ok to cry but not ok to move. He was annoyed about it all and had a bit of a difficult time but I think it was the atmosphere the nurse was abrupt and rough and so was the doctor. Also sometimes the itching is incredible after so maybe have some benadryl on hand if it gets out of control and calendula cream and calamine really helped.

Baby proofing - I actually used the playpen for the older one to get out of reach of the younger one







. DS would climb in it with his little toys and dd couldn't get at him or the stuff. He could leave it set up in there which was nice. By the time dd crawled though he was 3.5 and tall enough to climb in and out without danger.

Mouse skills - Dee has a difficult time with the mouse and with iPod and the laptop trackpad. It's a little strange to me because her brother was so adept at it at a young age. Different kids different skills I guess.

Guns - Yeah we don't allow that play around here. I have read that it's good for them to be able to 'kill' the bad guys but I just say that he has to vanquish them and make them go away. He's more into magic and martial arts beatings anyways. But for a while they did have trouble with it at his preschool.

Kate - I would consign the barbie and then get her an appropriate one if she asks for it at a later stage. Dee always gravitates to those Brat dolls. I find those offensive and steer her away. She got some plasticky barbie play dress up this year that sort of bothered me (has those stupid plastic high heels) but she wanted it so I opened it and will migrate it out when she forgets about it.

TV- Yeah we have the tantrums too. I actually switched the time they watch to the two nights I have class right before dinner at 5pm because it seems easier to shut it off when they go to the table for dinner. They are hungry so there is no argument and there has never been tv allowed on during dinner.

Cindy- I'm glad you have morning sickness







. I hope you are otherwise feeling good and able to relax a little.

Sickness- Yeah we all had a bout of it. I got it the longest. I thought I had mono or strep but it finally went away. I think a lot of it was stress. I had 2 major assignments and a lot of group work, plus I was supposed to work, and then the birthday. Just too much. I'm still not 100% but I'm feeling better. Now I just want to sleep because I pushed through it all. It was so frustrating to not be able to focus when I was writing.


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## AKislandgirl

Nilla: Thank you for the suggestions for the allergy testing. This Dr's specialty is pediatrics so I really hope he and the nurse have good bed side manners and work well with her. But I'm totally going to use your suggestions! I'll buy some benadryl cream to bring with us as well. I keep thinking what if we go through all of this and find out nothing. Then I feel bad for "wanting" her to have an allergic reaction. Ugh. It's not that I really want that it is just that I really want to know what is going on...

So personal revelation (I think). I started reading The Primal Blueprint and following the diet guidelines. Not 100% but pretty close- no grains or sugar. I was doing pretty well with it and feeling really good. No crashy feelings mid day and having more energy. Then in the last 2 days I sort of blew it off and ate grains and sugar (damm you girl scout cookies). Right away I got the floaty feelings back. Had trouble focusing and just felt icky. Also like I needed to eat again only an hour later type of thing. Then this morning woke up with a migraine. I've never known what my triggers have been but this is enough to kick me back on the primal train. I've decided for the rest of lent I'll do my best to eat primal as much as possible and track if I get any headaches or generally feel off. I know that what we eats obviously affect how we feel but I've never really made drastic changes to my diet (aside from going gluten free while Fiona was nursing a lot- I still ate other grains and definitely ate sugar!). It's really interesting to see how drastically the different eating style has made me feel.

Cindy: I agree that morning sickness is a great sign!  Reed's gingerbrew was my friend at that stage!


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## Vegan Princess

The sickness isn't that bad. Noticeable, but not that bad.  I feel like I look 5 mos pregnant already! But maybe that is all the junk I've been eating - see below.

Sue - I gave up desserts for lent! I had a nice girl scout cookie binge on fat tuesday, now I'm done. I was eating way too much junk! I ate lots of fruit yesterday instead - how I should be eating right now!

Makenna had her 3 yr check up yesterday. New doc. I loved the doc! So that is a huge relief. And she is flexible on vaccines. M is 36.5 inches and 30.6 lbs. 28.5 percentile for height and something like 40th for weight (I forgot already). 60th percentile for BMI. Makenna still only ever walks on her toes. She gave me some stretches to do bc she said her achilles tendon is tight. And she emailed the pediatric orthopedic surgeon to ask if he is concerned that it's tight. I toe walked too when I was little so I haven't been too concerned. But she did tell the doc it hurt to do some of the stretches that shouldn't hurt. Makenna did really well at the doc. She had to get 2 vaccines that we were behind on and she was not happy about that, but everything else went well. I thought she'd be more brave about the shot after seeing me get so many shots (DH is still giving me a shot in the butt every day). But not so. Can't blame her. Who ever really gets used to needles? I still try not to look at the needle before my shot.

Cindy


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## mckittre

Shots! One of the things we were faced with in enrolling K in Head Start is all the vaccine requirements. Of course, I could have claimed a religious exemption. But that's not true, and my husband wasn't on board with the lie, and K had had some shots already, just not all of them. (We basically only gave him things we thought he might actually have some remote chance of catching in the US as a baby, and decided to wait until later to decide on everything else). And I kind of thought I'd have more time to figure it all out. But I didn't, and the public health nurse was in town yesterday, and I ended up letting her give K something like 6 shots, so he'd be eligible for Head Start. I felt terrible holding him down while he screamed about it, and now it's a day later and he's still complaining about how stiff he is. I guess I'm glad he's really enjoying school, but I feel like a bad mom.


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## Everrgreen

I still haven't given any vaccines to R.. For daycare I just had to sign a form saying I objected and it could have been for religious/medical/conscientious reasons. But I think I've decided (finally) about which to give. I'm going to start towards the end of March when winter is over. First he will get DTaP-IPV, he gets 3 of those spaced every 2 months, followed by 1 after he turns 4. Then, also after he turns 4 (but spaced a month from the DTaP-IPV), he will get one shot of MMRV (the MMR with chicken pox). So that's 5 needles total. Once he's around 12 I will do Hep B (2 shots) and Men C (1 shot). I'm happy with this plan. Hopefully it goes ok. I still have moments where I'm not sure. This has been such a tough thing for me, I have really gone back and forth!

Cindy - That's interesting about the toe-walking, hopefully the stretches are all that's needed! I find some genetic traits to be so random, it makes me wonder why that would be passed on in the genes? R is obsessed with my ears, he always plays with them for comfort, if I pick him up to carry him (even in public) he automatically holds my ear. My nephew on my ex's side also did this with his mom (ex's sister) and I remember my ex-mil saying that my ex was like that with her when he was younger. Such a strange thing to be passed through genes!

AK - I am really interested in the primal diet! I don't follow it at all. I sometimes make attempts at it but it's hard. I could easily cut out sugar, I don't have a sweet tooth. Although the yogurt I buy has sugar.. Grains would be hard, I love my toast at breakfast! But I definitely have limited grains/sugar a lot from how I used to eat.

Nilla - I hope you're feeling better! It sound like you have so much going on, make sure you take care of yourself!


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## Mal85

Erin: You are so far from being a bad mom!! I'm sorry K had to get so many shots at once, that had to be hard to go through. Owyn will be getting a shot at her 3 year check up. The first time she's getting one in a year. She keeps asking for earrings and I think after she gets her shot I'll explain to her that getting her ears pierced is similar to getting a shot and see what she thinks then. Can you tell I really don't want to pierce her ears right now? Maybe I'll get her some stick on earrings for her birthday... do they still make those?

Everr: I think that sounds like a great plan for his vaccinations. It feels good to make that decision doesn't it. We were just discussing vaccinations over in my DDC with Greta. I really think it's been my most difficult parenting decision to date.

Cindy: I had a niece that did the toe-walking too. Where does that come from? I know you said you did it, but why is that a common thing for kids to do? Anyway, her tendons were really tight too but they were able to correct it with the stretches and constant reminders to walk on her feet and not her toes. She's 13 now and I still catch her walking on her toes sometimes...

Sue: I've been praying for you niece. What a difficult thing to go through at any age, let alone such a young age. Kids always amaze me though with their strength in the face of something like that. I hope she is handling it well. It seems like she has a great support system and that really helps! And kudos to her brother. How old is he? What a fantastic gift to be able to give his sister.

AFU: We officially have Owyn enrolled in school for next year! We did a visit at the local Montessori school on Thursday. Normally it's an informative meeting for parents, but the director knows my background in Montessori so she had me bring Owyn in to see the school. Owyn was a little apprehensive about going. All day she kept going back and forth about whether or not she wanted to go see her school. She absolutely loved it though and didn't want to leave. She wouldn't talk to anyone while we were there, but she was quick to take to the materials on the shelves in the classroom. The director was so patient with her too when she was into something and not ready to move on. She said she could tell by watching Owyn that she is very ready for school and thinks she'll do very well in a Montessori classroom. She kept commenting on how focused she was on everything she was doing. I really can't wait for her to start in the fall, it will be such a great experience for her! When we got there, the director told me they only had 2 more openings for next year so I'm so glad we got in when we did. It really is the only local school I would want to send her to. Now, the only problem is that if I send her there for preschool I know I'm going to fall in love with the place and want to send her there for elementary and middle school. It's so expensive though... I'm already trying to figure out how to make it work...

DH and I have been making some big decisions this week about our living situation. We've been talking about moving out of this house the last couple of months. We're going to spend the spring and summer refinishing the floors, giving the bathrooms a facelift and finishing our kitchen to get the house ready to put on the market. Where we go from here is the big question. DH is extremely picky about our next house. He would really like to build. We have basically no savings right now though. We have just started saving since he got his promotion. And building a house is expensive. So, we've been talking to my parents. They are stuck in a house that's too big for them and they can't get anyone to buy it. So, we're talking about moving in with them once we sell this house. We can help them out with their living expenses and save for our house more than twice as fast. We would actually have tons more room there with them than we do here. They have a 5 bedroom, 4000 s/f house. Plenty of room for all of us. The girls could each have their own room. DH and I would have a room plenty big enough for all our furniture and our computer. My parents are actually really excited about it and DH is looking forward to all the work he could do on their house for them that would hopefully make them able to sell the house after we move out. So, DH has been making lots of phone calls this week getting estimates on building a house to see how much we would need to save and how long we would need to live there. A lot to think about!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Yay for getting school all settled! And that is really exciting about moving in with your parents. Would they help with the kids too? A nice added bonus!! I wouldn't be ready to let M get earings yet, I don't think. Though I do recall getting my ears pierced before after 5. I wanted then pierced. Then I let them close up and got them redone a couple yrs later. Those holes won't EVER close up. LOL. But if she really wants it, it's not the end of the world as long as it's her choice. My friend posted on facebook about should she get her 6 week old's ears pierced? All friends were saying yes! But she is mexican - it's part of their culture. I can't imagine doing that to a newborn!!! At least Owyn can tell you if they are bothering her and uncomfortabe when she sleeps.

Erin: That's a lot of shots! I hope he didn't feel too bad after. We did most of the shots, just spread out. We were behind on a polio and we did one of the Hep As (hadn't done any of those). The doc really thinks we should get chickenpox done before I have the baby bc she is more concerned about M getting it and passing it to a little baby. So we'll probably do that before preschool starts.

AFM: Makenna did end up getting into the preschool that was my 1st choice! I found out Thursday. So now I am going to tour it next Friday. I'm really torn. But I think we will go with the other choice we had decided on bc it doesn't require me to be in the classroom - which would be hard with a new baby. They both have pros and cons but I do love both schools. And I found out she did get into the 2nd choice one. So I'm happy to have a choice between 2 I love.

I have another ultrasound on Monday. Please think good thoughts for us again!  This is about the time my last baby stopped growing.

Cindy


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## Everrgreen

RE School: Some moms on my single moms board have been discussing charter school lotteries. We don't have charter schools here, they sound great but the whole lottery thing sounds so stressful! Do any of you have to deal with that? I know which school I'll be registering R at assuming I get a job in this city when I graduate (which hopefully I will!) That's just for jk though, so not til September 2013, he'll stay where he is until then 

Cindy - That's great that you have your choice of preschools!

Mal - Oh exciting to have her enrolled! I am tempted by the local montessori school here but I can't afford it, it might have been possible with 2 incomes, but not with just one. He'll be in a public school but it's french immersion which I really want for him and the montessori doesn't do french immersion.

And how AWESOME to have the opportunity to live with your parents! I so wish I could have lived with my mom, both for support and to save money.

Erin - I still feel guilty sometimes about R being in daycare. Mostly when he's crying that he doesn't want to go and wants to stay with me.. That's really hard. But overall I think he gets a lot out of it and enjoys it.

We had a really good day today. We went sledding, skating, to the mall, and out for ice cream. Busy but fun! The mall was having soccer registration but it turns out they don't start until age 5 here :/ There is a small town about 25 minutes away that has an under 4 division so I think I'm going to register there, I think it will be worth the drive. He'll also be starting swim lessons in April so it will be a fun spring/summer!


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## Nillarilla

Ever- your day sounds fun.

Cindy - Yay for having a choice of preschools. I'm sure whichever will give her a good experience.

Erin - That's great that K is loving headstart.

Mal - Saving to build your dream house sounds fabulous. I live with my mom and although we don't save much money it does allow me a break now and then that I ordinarily wouldn't get. Plus I've got free childcare for Dee for the 6-8 days a month I work.

School: Dee will go to French Immersion where ds goes. There have been a few irritating things about it but overall it's been a good experience.

Vaxes: Dee hasn't gotten any yet. Ds got two full rounds as a baby but then we stopped at 4 months because I started reading. He just recently got DtapIPV and MeningC. We have to go back for a booster on the DtapIPV and then I think we will also do the MMR. Booking separate appointments for all the shots is difficult. My doctor doesn't do it and we don't really go for well checkups. I don't think Dee has ever seen her. She saw a doc in emerge once when she had pneumonia. I really should take her in for a checkup. I'm sure there are things that could be wrong that I may not notice. Dh finally has a doc (hasn't had one in 10 years) and he likes him so we might switch Dee to him.

AFU: We have had another round of illness here. Fevers and coughs. I'm thinking of setting off a disinfectant bomb in the house. I'm seriously done with the illness. We've been taking probiotics, and Vit D and sleeping a lot. Any other suggestions ladies?


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## justKate

Following along but no time to post today.

Cindy, thinking of you.

Starling, have you seen this Group? http://www.mothering.com/community/groups/show/25/unplanned-c-section-after-long-labor-support-group A spin off of the same thread in the Ceasarean thread. Not sure how you're feeling about it but i know my section was pretty hard on me.

Will be back for more when I have time!


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## Vegan Princess

Just wanted to let you know my ultrasound went well today! Baby measured a day ahead and heart rate was 174. Got to see the spine and arm and leg buds and placenta. I get to stop the progesterone shots in 3 days! I calculated and I think that will be 70something shots for this baby! Well worth it though. I graduated from the RE. I have my first OB visit a week from friday and another ultrasound then. I'm sure I'll be a nervous wreck before that one too.

So the doc called this morning. The pediatrician had sent an email to the pediatric orthopedic surgeon asking if he wants to see M about her toe walking or not. They called today and scheduled an appt for her to see him in a couple weeks. I'm really glad my pediatrician is proactive about referring us. But I hope he just gives us some stretches/suggestions and sends us on our way.

Cindy


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## Nillarilla

Cindy that's such good news!!!!


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## starling&diesel

Hi all ... I dropped the MDC ball there for a while, sorry.

Wonderful news, *Cindy*! I'm so thrilled that your little babe looks good and happy in there.

*Kate*, I did see that thread ... thanks for the link to remind me to look at it every now and again. It's true, labouring for so long and then having c-section does stick with you in a unique way. I'd get rid of the Barbie.

*Mal*, congrats on the school!

*Erin* ... Has K forgotten his deluge of shots already? I hope so.

*Vax* ... We do the traditional schedule here, with much inner conflict on my behalf. I think it's one of the biggest going concerns as a parent.

*Ever* ... We're waiting for swim lesson sign-up too! Fun! E swims all the time, but recently has not wanted to go under water anymore, for some unknown reason (nothing traumatic happened). I kind of wonder if that's going to hold her back with lessons?

*Courtney* ... How's your wee C-girl? Rolling and shoving and pushing?

*Nilla* ... I hope your family all feels better soon!

*Sue* ... When is the allergy appointment? Hope it goes as well as it can!

I'll try to keep up from here. Our computer is not aging gracefully, and I end up reading on my phone, but I don't like to post from it.

I turned 37 last week, with a lovely GF-pizza party with family and friends. H started rolling. We're all sick with cold #47, or so it feels.

We've been trucking around to Science World, the aquarium, homelearners playgroups, parks, errands, etc. Feels like I'm back in the groove after my H babymoon! That means it's probably time to start writing again. And going to the gym. Got to get on that! I don't fit into any of my spring or summer clothes! It's rather depressing.


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## Mal85

Good to hear from you Starling, sounds like things are going well!

Cindy, Great, great news!! And I hope all goes well with M.

Owyn's birthday is this Thursday. Leap Day is getting in the way of my reminiscing! Today is the day my water broke with her, but I have this pesky non-day in between today and her birthday. We should just celebrate her for two days, right? She isn't feeling well today. Last night she complained of her ear hurting. DH was with her while I was at book club with Greta, so he gave her some Tylenol and she went to bed fine, slept all night with no complaint. This morning, she woke up crabby and very quickly started running a fever. Normally, I'd wait it out for today and see if it just runs its course, but DH's vacation time is gone and I have to work tomorrow, plus her birthday is this week so I really don't want her to be sick on her birthday. So, I went ahead and made her a doc appt for this afternoon. Poor girl has been laying around on the couch all day. She's sleeping a lot and asking for Wonder Pets when she's awake. She won't eat, so I've hesitated to give her anymore medicine. Her fever is hovering around 101.5, so as long as it doesn't get too high I'm okay with not giving her anything... Hopefully she's better by morning, we can't afford anymore time off! DH gets more vacation time next month, so we just have to make it until then.

If she's feeling better on her birthday, I had planned to make a trip into the city to get some last minute things for her party and let her pick a treat for her day. I was going to take her into a girly store and let her pick out some new hair stuff. She loooooves hair stuff-- bows, headbands, frilly ponytail holders, all of it. She is still asking for earrings, so yesterday we had a talk about that. I explained to her that it would be like getting a shot and they would put needles in her ears to make holes for the earrings. I told her it would hurt for a second and we looked at a youtube video. She still insisted she wanted to do it! I thought for sure that would steer her away. So, the store I was going to take her to does ear piercings. I'll see what she thinks about it once we're there and if she's still up for we'll do it. If not, we'll just do my original plan with the hair stuff and maybe get some stick on earrings.


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## mckittre

Cindy - Yay! I'm so glad everything's going well. That is a lot of shots! So much work already for that tiny peanut of a babe. 

Mal - hope Owyn's feeling better for her birthday. How do you think your parents would be to live with? We have dh's mom as a next-door-neighbor, and my mom sometimes comes up and stays in her "grandma yurt" for months at a time. And it's super awesome. They're very easy-going people, and sharing childcare is wonderful. We wouldn't have been able to afford to get all set up here w/o a loan if we hadn't bought in on my mother-in-law's land (she has 3 acres). But I'm so glad it worked out this way, and now we never want to move.

Starling - Happy birthday! Sounds like you guys have been busy. Science world and the aquarium sound like fun. I'm a little jealous - I bet Katmai would love to see something like that.

Sometimes I wonder about what effect (if any) all our very different lives will have on the kids. Spending hours in the woods vs. going to an aquarium, meeting new people all the time vs. rarely running across anyone who doesn't already know who you are, etc... I don't think any of those ways is bad - I just wonder how it will shape the people they eventually grow up to be.

School - I'm torn about the whole idea of school, really. Conceptually, I hate the standardization, busywork, mind-numbing aspects that I remember from school. And I have no interest in giving up our expeditions or making them fit the school calendar. But with 50 kids (total K-12), the school here will notice (funding wise and playmate wise) if my 2 kids go or not, and the smallness makes it much more personalized. And it's a pillar of the community I'd like to support. K is loving headstart right now, which he can do for 2 years after this, then it would be straight into a K-5 classroom. I think we'll just play it by ear.

Speaking of school, I'm looking at the wind and snow outside and debating whether I should pick K up by bike today (much faster and more convenient, but biking uphill in fresh snow with 2 kids in the trailer can be nearly impossible if the plow doesn't get there before me), or walk in and pull a sled (which I can do in any conditions, but it's slower, and K might complain about the wind). It's great exercise either way, but sometimes being car-free in the winter can be a bit inconvenient!


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## Vegan Princess

Erin: Ahhh I feel so lazy after reading your post!  I need to get off my butt more lately. LOL.

Starling: Happy birthday! A pizza party sounds so fun. Happy to see you back.

Mal: I'm sorry Owyn is sick. I hope she's better in time for her birthday! This was the 1st yr M wasn't sick on her birthday. That is funny about the extra day in between. LOL. I'm surprised O still wants her ears pierced after your description - she must really want it done!

I forgot to mention that my crazy chicken is laying again. We're getting 4 eggs/day some days (we have 4 hens). I'm glad she is laying again - her eggs are super jumbo - way bigger than the rest. But now we have more eggs than we know what to do with! Time to start trading them for things from people's gardens.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Hi guys! We are back from Anchorage. Fiona did awesome at the allergy appointment. She did cry a bit but it was over fast. Then we just had to distract her to keep her from trying to scratch her back. Turns out she is allergic to garlic and rye! Garlic is in so many things! So that was really interesting and not something I would have ever thought to take out of her diet on our own. Rye she hasn't had in years since going gluten free. Because of her symptoms and the fact that we have seen improvement in taking wheat out (and other gluten) and she's had reactions when I've eaten it while she was breastfeeding a lot he wants us to do a test for Celiac's as well. The plan is to see how she does garlic free for a few weeks and then introduce wheat back in. She needs to have it as part of her diet for a few weeks for us to get an accurate result from the Celiac test. We'll do a blood draw for that. Overall I feel good about having figured some things out but I'm still nervous about the Celiac thing. Honestly, I've suspected Celiac's for a very long time though.

Our friends were there staying at the same place as us which was awesome. They had there new baby Friday night and we arrived Sunday. This was her second VBAC- an hour and a half labor. The Dr didn't make it to the room and her DH caught the baby. Pretty cool! They are doing great. There older boys are 2.5 and 5 and F loved playing with them. She called them "my boys." We went to a carnival- nothing like riding carney rides int he snow! She loved the ferris wheel! She'd never done rides before. We also went to a bouncy house with them and it was a hit.

Unfortunely, she woke up with a fever this morning and threw up all over the couch and me and herself. Yuck. Poor baby. She's dozing on the couch now. Hoping this passes quickly and that M doesn't get it.

I've read to catch up on everyone. Hope you are all well! Cindy, so glad the 2nd U/S went well and you are almost done with shots!


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## Everrgreen

Sue - That's good you have some answers! Garlic is such an odd allergy, kind of a pain too.. Maybe it's something she will grow out of as she gets older? I hope she is feeling better!

Cindy - I'm glad everything is progressing as it should! Yay!! It will be nice to be done those shots I'm sure!

Erin - Wow! You are one busy mama! I also understand your concerns about school. I have them too. R will have to go to regular old public school but I will be one of those annoying moms complaining about too much homework to the teachers  I just feel that school work should be done at school and after school is time for family and other important life lessons 

Mal - I hope Owyn is feeling better so she can have an awesome day tomorrow 

Starling - Happy Belated Birthday!!! Sounds like you're getting out and doing lots of fun stuff with the little ones! I wish we had an aquarium somewhere, that would be fun!

AFM - 2 midterms tomorrow and then I'm done. Can't wait! And tonight I'm taking R and my cousin's 3 year old to see BUSYTOWN! It's at our theatre here tonight. Front row tickets! I hope the two of them enjoy it and don't want to leave half way through.. It's just me taking the 2 of them so I'm a bit anxious about how it will go. But it should be fun


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## Mal85

Sue-- So glad you got some answers! Garlic will be an interesting one, it really is in a ton of things! Sounds like you guys made a fun trip out of it too. Hope F is feeling better very soon. When Owyn got sick, I was so worried about Greta getting it. She was *knock on wood* the only one in the house that stayed healthy though!

Owyn seems to be feeling better today. Last night was rough, but mostly because she slept so much during the day. She just wasn't that tired. I found her sleeping on her little Dora couch in her room this morning. I have no idea when that happened! DH has no more paid time off until next month and I have none, so her baby sitter was okay with taking her today. Lucky my kids are the only ones she has. I hated leaving her though and was prepared to leave work early if she was having a bad day. She hasn't had a fever anymore though and her sitter says she's been in good spirits all day. So excited she's feeling better so we can have a good day for her birthday! We have party shopping to do and when we get home I have to get treats ready to celebrate Dr. Seuss's birthday with my preschoolers. We're making Lorax cupcakes and reading "Are You My Mother" then cutting out magazine pictures of mothers and their babies to make a collage.

Someone remind me that infant sleep does get better... This 4 month sleep regression is kicking my butt. I ordered a woombie for Greta yesterday and I'm really hoping it helps. Swaddling is useless anymore!


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## justKate

Cindy,







Yay for a healthy babe! Are you anxious about stopping the progesterone? I love to think that this will become a regular old pregnancy for you shortly! And good news about your hen, too! As for M, do you think they would try occupational therapy first? Just thinking it might help, in addition to the stretches, in case its just a sort of habit for her. So good that you have a pedi that you like.

Sue, glad the trip went well. Who would have thought of garlic?! I really hope that's all it is. And I hope the two weeks back on gluten aren't too awful for either of you. Love the VBAC story, too. I want one exactly like that!

Mal, that would be weird to have an extra day thrown in there! I hope Owyn has a wonderful birthday, and that all of the yuckiness disappears tonight. I agree about the fever, she's probably fine without medicine. Any time Aubs has a fever, DH wants to give her Tylenol right away. If she's below 101ish I'd rather let her body do its own thing....but he doesn't like to see anyone "suffer." So we usually compromise by waiting until later in the evening, so that the Tylenol will help her sleep better.

Ever and Erin, I've got a bit of school anxiety too. It seems like everyone in my life lately home schools, but I really don't think I'm up to it alone. I don't know what we're going to do, because I will definitely have to go back to work for at least a few more years, and Aubs LOVES "school" right now, so I would hate to take her out of that setting entirely. For now, I'm happy enough with the daycare she's in (convenience, price, care, flexibility) but I think we'll make a change if/when she goes full time when I go back to work. Sometimes I'm not sure that there's really a "right" decision--we just do our best to choose among the options we have.

Re. vaxes, Aubs is definitely behind. And not even in an orderly scheduled way anymore. I haven't gotten her any since I've been pg because I'm afraid of shedding and its a good excuse not to deal with it. She had a couple DTap, an IPV, and one MMR, but it's been nearly a year since she's had anything. I worried a lot that it would aggravate some of her weird behaviors at the time, but now I've just been lazy. Erin, don't feel bad. K won't remember it.

Starling, glad you had a good birthday. Sounds like you're having lots of adventures with the littles! I wish we were more adventurous. We definitely don't get out enough.

As for me, everything is mostly the same. I have an OB appt tomorrow (my first with an OB this pregnancy) to get official "approval" for my VBAC. I'm somewhere around 34/35 weeks I think...I can't keep track because my "real" EDD and my EDD according to the health care providers are a few days apart. Starting to nest hard and hoping that the energy will stick with me for the next few weeks. This weekend we're going up near my parents for my cousin's kid's first birthday. They live near my parents, so i should get a little free time. The next weekend is free, the weekend after that is another trip up north for a friend's baby shower, and then I'm going to sit on my rear and wait for this baby to arrive. *Courtney, Nilla, Erin, Sue, Mal, Starling*--were your second pregnancies about the same length as your first? I don't want an early baby, but I can't help but think that 39 weeks instead of 40 would be fine!


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## Mal85

Kate: My pregnancies were very different from each other in general. But no, I went 4 days overdue with Owyn and Greta came 4 days before my due date. I was totally not expecting her to come before 40 weeks hit.

Well, I spoke too soon. Right after my last message, Owyn's fever spiked back up and she passed out for the night at 7:15, unheard of! Her sleep last night was really crappy so I know she was really tired today. I'm hoping passing out early and getting a good, long night of sleep will have her back to herself in the morning. When I changed her into her PJs (after falling asleep), I did manage to get some Tylenol in her just to help her get some good sleep. Here's hoping she's well by morning, I hate seeing her feel so crappy!


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## starling&diesel

*Mal* ... Has she got all her molars? E has one coming in right now, and it's given her a fever and made an ordinary cold a Very Big Deal. She keeps coughing until she barfs, poor thing. I hope O feels better for her birthday!

*Kate* ... E came two weeks early, and H came a week early (although thinking back on it, I don't think he was ready and when the MW stripped my membranes, I think that lead to the c-section, but that's a whole 'nother story). I hope you don't end up waaaaay pregnant! I think 38 sounds good.

*Sue* ... GARLIC! Ack, no! A life without GARLIC? What a sad, sad thing. But I'm glad that the testing went well and that you all had a good time with friends! Good luck with re-introducing gluten!

*Erin, Ever* and *Kate* ... I think public schools need more mama bears like yourselves! That way, perhaps there will be some change for all the kids, and not just your children, who are so blessed to have such powerful advocates at home.


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## Nillarilla

Kate: I was 10 days over with my first and 7 days over with my second. Both were cesareans but the second was a (quickly) planned cesarean due to baby distress. I went in and out of false labour for weeks. I think I would have gone earlier if she wasn't distressed.

Mal My fingers are crossed Owyn wakes up with no fever and feels fabulous for her birthday. I hope the woombie helps you get some sleep.

Ever I hope busytown was fun.

Erin your life sounds amazing.

Kate - Everything's crossed for you to have a lovely healing VBAC.


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## mckittre

Kate - I'll be the odd one out here. K came 4 days late, then L came *15* days late! I was expecting that the second one would be earlier too, and those last 11 days were awful. I hope you're luckier, but I think it's better to let go of expectations. My second labor was also longer, and in many ways harder (though pushing was faster), and the baby was over 2.5 pounds heavier.

Mal - hope Owyn feels better soon

Sue - I hope garlic is all it is. I'd hate to give up garlic, though! (though K hates it, so I use less than I used to)

As for school, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who worries about it. But these kids are still so young. I should probably just be happy he loves Headstart and not try to get too far ahead of myself.


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## Mal85

You're definitely not the only one, Erin. I have major concerns about putting Owyn into the public school system. There are good public schools out there but I know my local one is not one of them. I see what goes on over there and it's clear there are very few teachers who actually care about the students. It's a sad thing really. I know why it is... a small school system that can't afford to pay good teachers what they deserve so they end up leaving to teach in better school districts. I also think the way the public school system is set up it caters to kids who are competitive by nature. If you have a kid that's interested in learning but doesn't have a competitive drive to get the best grades, they'll likely get lost in the system. I've been watching my nephew this year, a 4h grader. A smart kid with no drive and he's just falling through the cracks.

I mean, it is possible for kids to thrive in that system. It's just hard to know if your kid is one of them until they're there. As of now, I intend to enroll Owyn in public school but if I see her struggling I will do something about it. Still trying to figure out how to afford keeping her in Montessori! As of now, she could go there through middle school. I sure hope they expand even more...


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Happy birthday Owyn!! I hope she wakes up feeling better.

Sue: I'm glad you have some answers and a plan. Good luck with the changes! Have you noticed any sensitivities in M?

Kate: It's odd but a ton of my friends from M's playgroup have had 2nd babies over the last yr. And every single one of them went WAY overdue. Like at least a week late. And most of them were NOT that late with their 1st. I had always thought 2nd babies came earlier. M was 2 weeks early so I will have no idea what to expect this time around.

RE: public schools. The schools are pretty decent where we are. That was important when we bought our house. They are definitely great through elementary and middle. The highschool has mixxed test scores, but that is bc it is the biggest in the state (4,000 kids!!!) and has a very diverse population. We pay insanely high property taxes in our community and a lot of that goes to funding any state/county budget shortfalls for our schools. So the class sizes are kept smaller and the schools offer tons of fantastic programs. So you can be wildly successful at the high school or get in tons of trouble. We may move before highschool. Or I'll likely be working then so we could afford private school.

I took M to a kids drop in art lab yesterday. There was an older girl there (7) who told me how she is home schooled. She went on and on about how it's the best school ever and she loves it. But then she told me she can't read yet and that she should probably be able to by her age - like she felt bad about it. And I felt bad for her too. I know some parents who homeschool/unschool don't push the reading - but it sounded like she really wanted to be able to - and I thought that was the cue to work on it?

Anyway, I still toss around the homeschool idea. But mostly I think I might like to go back to work at least part time when the kids are both school age. For my sanity and so that we can afford to retire. We live in a very high cost area of the country and we are scraping by on 1 income - but not putting anything away. I used to make more than DH - not sure that would be the case after being out of the work force for so long.

Can I just say - M nearly drove me insane yesterday! I was beyond tired and she just would not listen to anything I asked her to do/not do. UGH! I so hope today is a better day!

Oh and one last thing - M has slept in her own bed, in her own room for the last few nights. She doesn't ask to sleep in our bed. She does wake up like 3x/night and one of us goes in there and lays with her for a bit, I ask her if she wants to come into my bed and she says she wants to stay in her bed like a grown up! LOL. My back has felt so much better, having space to move around. It's wierd though bc we didn't push it or even really try to get her to. Not sure why she started sleeping in there all the sudden?

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Kate: F was born the day before her due date and M was born 3 days before.

School: We are facing some major budget cuts for our schools here. They are either going to close one of the elementary schools which will crowd the others even more or cut specialty programs like art, math specialists, reading specialists. It does not look good and we don't plan to send the girls here. We still talk about homeschooling a lot but sometimes I do wonder if F and I would benefit from some time away from each other. She said she wants to go to school so she can pack a lunch! She wants me to come with her...  If we move somewhere with better schools we will think about it. I do think that F would thrive in a Montessori setting and there are a lot of things about Waldorf that really appeal to me. Some parts of both bug me though.

Mal: Happy Birthday to Owyn! Sure hope she is feeling better today. I hate sick babies! Fiona had a pretty high fever yesterday for most of the day. (103.5) It would come down for a bit with tylenol and then creep back up a couple of hours later. She still feels sick this morning though her fever is quite a bit lower.

Starling: Sounds like you guys are up to lots of fun! Happy belated birthday to you! I'm really ready for Spring and getting back to 2 cars so that getting out of the house to kid events are less of a juggle. Snowing hard right now so it won't be any time soon!

Cindy: Awesome about M sleeping in her own bed! Maybe someday... F won't have anything to do with DH at bedtime or if she wakes in the night though so it would be all me getting up to deal with wake ups. Its so much easier with her in our room. I do look forward to the day we have our room back though!


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## Everrgreen

Happy Birthday to Owyn!!!

Mal - I hope she's feeling better today, poor girl! I agree with your thoughts on public schools. I really don't like all the grading and rewarding.

AK - That's too bad your schools are having all those cuts. It's not fair for the kids  Do you still have your plan to move south?

Cindy - Wow, that's a nice change for you! I wonder if this will be permanent?? (For me I would be so sad if R wanted to sleep in his own bed.. But that's because I'd be left alone in a giant king-size.. And I like the snuggles )

Oh, and R often drives me insane.. He NEVER listens to me :/

Kate - Ooooh it's going to be so SOON! I hope your appt went well today 

AFM - Busytown was lots of fun! The boys had a great time! At one point they called for volunteers to go on stage and R wanted to go up so badly but they didn't see us putting our hands up (we were front and centre but they were looking over our heads into the rest of the audience). R was really upset about that. But other than that minor set back we had a great time!

AND, I had my last two midterms today so I'm DONE! Now I just have 3 assignments to finish, and then exams in April. It's all flying by!


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## Mal85

Well, Owyn woke up feeling much better for her birthday! A little sleepier than normal and she ended up napping which is rare, but no more fever and was in good spirits all day! So, we made our shopping trip and got everything for her party, then I took her out to lunch for pizza. We made it to the ear piercing place and on the way there she decided she didn't want earrings. So, I told her we'd just go pick out some new bows for her hair and she was happy with that. But once we got there, she changed her mind again and decided she did want earrings. She was climbing in the chair waiting for her earrings before I could even discuss it with her. And she was so excited. She sat up there so big and let the girl get her ears ready just giddy with excitement. Once she did it though, she did cry and I felt so bad for her! I could tell it really surprised her how much it hurt. But once it was over, she got a sucker and got to pick out some hair clips and a new necklace and she seemed to get over it pretty quickly. Now she tells me how pretty her earrings are, but she doesn't want to discuss getting them pierced! Now, to get ready for her party tomorrow!!


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## Vegan Princess

Mal: Awww, Owyn was so brave! I'm sure she had no concept of how much it would hurt. But she handled it like a champ! I want pics of her with earrings!! Sounds like a lovely day! 

Everr: Yay for midterms being done! This really is flying by! Remind me - is this a 2 or 3 yr program? I'm glad enjoyed the show. I wonder if M would be overwhelmed in one.

Well I definitely jinxed myself on the bed. Last night she wanted to sleep with us again. She said she only sleeps in her bed on Mondays. LOL!

I think we may take M to see the Lorax movie this weekend. She has been seeing the huge billboards of the Lorax and getting excited. So I got the book from the library and we've read it a million time. It's actually a great story for talking about why we don't waste paper, etc. So we've had some good chats from it. And thankfully there is this great little independant theater I love that will be playing it. It's smaller and they have couches and tables with normal chairs for half the theater. They also serve food and drinks like pizza, nachos, beer, wine, etc. So we can go to a matinee and sit on a couch together. It's pretty short too - only an hour and 20 minutes. I think she's very excited to go to a movie in a theater.

Cindy


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## AKislandgirl

Cindy: Mondays are a good start! LOL! Your theater sounds awesome. I wonder if that movie will come here- I'll have to check. It would be fun to take her I think.

Mal: I want pictures too! What a brave girl! I fainted when I got my ears pierced when I was around 8 or 9! When do you guys hope to move?

Courtney and Kate: Can't believe those babies will be here so soon! Kate, do you have a name yet? I am so glad that we picked Maeve but I still think about the name Hazel and think we'll need another little girl so I can use that name!

Fiona is better and we are detoxing from all the TV she watched while lying on the couch for the last 2 days.

Moving: Yes! It's still the plan. DH kept saying he wanted to have some long term projects done here before leaving. His boss is sort of an ass and things have gotten worse so now he really wants to find a job right away!!!! He also doesn't want to spend another winter here. Our new goal is fall and I'm thrilled. We've rally been thinking pacific northwest but I'm trying to be open to other places too. We can probably get more land if we do that but I'm also trying to be realistic with my self. I've always lived near the ocean. We had 2 years in Idaho and Utah and it drove me crazy. I want to be open to new ideas and the adventure of it all though. I'm feeling desperate to get out of here and don't want that to cloud my judgement about where we would be truly happy. Any suggestions on awesome places to live ladies?

I just realized last night we have an entire bed of garlic planted in the garden waiting for the snow to melt to come up. Poor Fiona!


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## Mal85

I'll have to take a pic. I have one on my phone but can't figure out how to load it on here from my phone. I'll take one with my camera when I get home later today. She does look really cute with them in! She woke up crying this morning and when I got to her room I asked her what was wrong. She said "My flowers fell out!" Her earrings are flowers and she really thought they fell out and were on the floor. She kept peeking over the edge of the bed trying to find them. I had to take her hands and make her feel her ears to realize they were still in. Weird. I think it was a dream because she wasn't totally awake during all this.

Sue-- How exciting to be talking about moving so soon! I'd love to put our house on the market this spring, but realistically we will have a better chance of selling it for what we want if we wait and get these projects done. That's our goal for this summer. I'm hoping to put it on the market this fall before it gets too cold. DH says he'd like one more Christmas in our house, so we'll see. For sure by the end of the year, it's going up for sale. Then, it's just a matter of waiting until it sells. Hopefully that won't take too long, but you never know in this market. Our house is a small bungalow style which seems to be selling pretty well in our area. They're cheap and ours is well taken care of. DH and I just worked out a schedule of him getting regular time in the garage to get these things done. Hopefully that will make these projects go by faster. Although, this week didn't really work out with Owyn getting sick and her birthday being yesterday and her party this weekend... Starting next week!

I'd love to take Owyn to see The Lorax. If it were playing in town I might this weekend. Not sure if it is. I read The Lorax to my preschoolers today and brought in cupcakes that looked like Truffala trees. They had a lot of fun celebrating Dr. Seuss's birthday today!


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## justKate

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Vegan Princess*
> 
> Oh and one last thing - M has slept in her own bed, in her own room for the last few nights. She doesn't ask to sleep in our bed. She does wake up like 3x/night and one of us goes in there and lays with her for a bit, I ask her if she wants to come into my bed and she says she wants to stay in her bed like a grown up! LOL. My back has felt so much better, having space to move around. It's wierd though bc we didn't push it or even really try to get her to. Not sure why she started sleeping in there all the sudden?


That's exciting, even if she doesn't stay 100% of the time! We told Aubs that once she was 3 she would sleep in her big girl bed (in our room) and if she wakes up she can say "mommy I need cuddles" and I'd go to her. So after 3 weeks of trying to cram my big self into her toddler bed, we decided it would be better if she stayed in her bed until the sun comes up, and then she wakes mommy. She feels very grown up waiting for the sun to come up. Can't wait for the time to change so that I get an extra hour of darkness every morning!

Still no name for baby to be. I think I'm going to make a list of 5 or 6 and let DH pick. Forgot the library might have name books, so I'm going to check that out next week too. My appt with the OB went surprisingly well--told me that they were cool with intermittent fetal monitoring in labor rather than continuous, which is better even than I expected. Also commented that I haven't gained any weight for 4 weeks, but I think that's wrong--according to my scale it's been a pretty stead increase of ~1lb./week like they suggest. So maybe their scales are just off. Whatever, I'm eating, which is what matters.

Nilla, I somehow forgot you had a c-section. Not that i would wish it on anyone, but it is good to be reminded that I wasn't the only one, if that makes sense.

The OB did mention that they weren't comfortable inducing a VBAC, but would do it. She said I need to decide how overdue I would be comfortable going before doing "something" as these things need to be "scheduled" in the hospital. I'm going to avoid thinking about that until 40 weeks, I think.  I can see doing a mild induction at 41+ if my cervix is favorable, but maybe planning a c-section for 42 weeks if its completely unfavorable.... I can always cancel, of course. But I really am not going to think about that until I hit 40!


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## Mal85

Kate-- So glad to hear your plans for a VBAC are going well!

I think Owyn is the last in the group to turn 3, right? Does this really mean we move onto the childhood years? That's just nuts! Although, I look at my big 3 year old and she is turning into a real kid right before my eyes!

Her bowling party is today and I should be making my grocery list to get stuff for her cakes and get to baking, but I'm procrastinating. I'm trying a new recipe and beginning to think I should have practiced it before today. Oh well, if it doesn't turn out I always have cupcakes to fall back on!


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## Everrgreen

February '09 Mamas ~ Childhood Chat 

Our new thread is at the link below! Woohoo!!

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1346927/february-09-mamas-childhood-chat#post_16900014


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## Thursday Girl

Catching up is overwhelming, I'm about 30 posts behind, but I am going to try.

Starling- Coraline is doing well, I had my mother blessing yesterday and they henna'd my belly and she just loved all the attention, she was rolling and kicking and just in general making the henna process a bit herder for those decorating my belly. LOL





as for old computers, do they ever die gracefully? I simply love seeing th pics you post of E and H. And Happy Birthday to you, sounds like a nice day.

Erin- i read my husband the debate of bike over walking in the snow and he once again reiterated why he likes Florida so much. As for school, I struggle with this question often. Florida has some of the worst public schools in the nation. There are a few decent options you can possibly get into via lottery but none of them are even close to as good as the private school we have them in. It does make it tough because we trade work for their schooling and Hubs often doesn't make it home for dinner with us because of that. Every once in a while we tour a public school and we are reminded why it is worth it. The kids are so far beyond what they are doing in public school and we don't think they would properly accomadate them, their private school has different teachers for each class, their is a lot of outside time and they teach them to learn not to take some test. It's like homeschooling in a very small school environment. Your public school sounds pretty nice though and if we lived somehwere else I might be more willing to consider public school.

Cindy- so happy for a nice healthy babe and for laying chickens!! Your movie theater sounds awesome. I have hear dpeopel say the Lorax is good but I have hated the other dr.suess books made into full length movies, although I almost want to go anyway because of the repubs saying it's a brainwashing movie put out by liberals. Haha, alas we can not afford to go to the movies.

Sue _ I saw the garlic thing on facebook, totally a strange allergy. as for moving my dream is the pacific northwest, too bad that my husband will probably stay in florida forever,

Everr- yeah for midterms finished!!

Mal sorry she's feeling crappy..and yes sleeps get better!! Oh and happy birthday to owyn, very cool she did so well with the ear piercing.

Kate- My kids vax schedules are all crazy too.

as for baby timing-

Jewel-40 w 2 days

Josie-41 w 3 days

Junie-40 w 1 day



> (okay now to respond to the next page of stuff.)


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## Vegan Princess

Courtney: So close!! Your tummy turned out absolutely beautiful!  How fun!


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