# How are your kids going to go to college?



## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Someone just asked me if I was saving for my kids to go to college. I said no and she looked at me like I was dumb as rocks. Of course I'll help them while they're in college but I do not plan on paying for college. I know there are programs out there designed for parents to put money away for college but they come with a few stipulations that I think would take away from my kids choices. Also I'm a DV, there are quite a few programs out there that offer scholarships for DV children. The price of a college education keeps rising, even if I started now, how can I be sure I could really pay for it all without having to mortgage my house and take out loans?

I honestly would prefer them to go fully knowing that I will not be paying but will support in any other way I can.

Thoughts?


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Stupid question: Whats a DV?

I'm not saving yet, but I want to start. Sucks not having enough money. My parents put me through college, but then I was on my own for law school. I don't know that it made me appreciate it any more than college, but I'm in lots of debt from law school. Thankfully I was debt free after undergrad though, so my debt load is lighter than most with a grad degree (going to a good but cheap law school helped to).


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Disabled Veteran.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> Disabled Veteran.


Of course.







I always think "Domestic Violence" when I see that. oops.


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## Mom31 (Jun 11, 2011)

Well... seeing that I am still paying for my college- and will probably be paying for it still when they are in school- and no I don't have a degree... ( yuck) I will help them but they will most likely have to get grants scholarships and loans. There dad will be able to help as well.

We talk about college all the time here and they know they are going. DS even knows where I want him to go and DD well- she is up for anything.... I am going to make sure they have the best possible applications- lots of involvement- etc.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

A combination of financial strategies - educational savings, our own out-of-pocket wages, academic scholarships and contributions from the kids via their own part-time jobs and gift money/presents they've received.

We set up an educational trust fund when the children were young. We contributed annually and it's healthy enough but wouldn't cover every expense for 2 students. DS worked part-time after school and during his summers and had his own savings. He decided to stay at home for university. He received a scholarship from his university of choice, and it's nice that it meant he could live at home if he wanted. That also meant that incremental costs associated with day-to-day living expenses have been relatively low this year, so he hasn't had to access the educational savings yet. We bought him a laptop for Christmas and that was probably the biggest "extra" cost so far.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I am not. I'm sure everyone thinks I am a horrible selfish witch. My reasoning:

* Our income is limited, and so we are prioritizing paying off our own mortgage and saving for retirement. Sounds selfish but honestly, I think it's a great gift to DD to have parents in a stable position. I get nervous about my own parents, actually, and I would be hugely resentful if I had to take care of them financially. And the fact is - and this is another bullet point I guess -

* We might have to give some financial resources to my parents. Oh, hell, I'm not planning on it, and I will not be bailing them out, but if I have to take them in my home or get care for them, then I have to, you know? Thankfully I think it's more likely that they will be ok financially but this possibility does lurk in my mind.

* We are still paying off our own damn student loans. I can't justify to myself saving cash for DD's college when we are paying off our own college loans (and for years to come). DH's mother always promised to pay for college, but it turned out there were MAJOR strings attached. She felt this permitted to have a very bizarre amount of control over DH's life, including whether he could be in a relationship with me, down to even where he could drive his car (seriously... she told him he could only drive his car home to her, but could not use it to go to the mall or whatever). Screw that, so that's half our student loans. The other half are mine. My parents are huge on education and always swore they would pay for my college but they ended up... not. I actually don't resent this, but the fact is, we're paying off our own college before even considering saving for DD's. (We are paying at a somewhat accelerated rate, but not too much - prioritizing the mortgage because of the interest rate).

* DH and I believe a state college education is fine and that prestigious private colleges are generally (not always) overrated. Thankfully we went to the cheapest state college in our state. My parents would have loved for me to have a brand name sheepskin but I chose a different life ultimately.

It's not that I want DD to be in our position and paying a stupid loan for 20 years. But we're in this position and I just can't justify to myself prioritizing saving money for her college when we have other issues going on. If I could go back in time, I could have improved my own situation (worked more, and mailed back the extra money they so "nicely" loaned but I didn't actually need, which I always meant to do but never got around to). Maybe I can help DD with good advice in that direction. If not - well, it's not the end of the world.

Wow, that was long, even for me. Delete... or submit?


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)




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## Buzzer Beater (Mar 5, 2009)

Dd1 has scholarships, Pell Grants, a job as an RA, and help from exh, grandmas, and stepdad. She also works part time, holidays, and summers. It's a stretch for her to get it together every year and I think she values her education more because of it as previous posters have suggested.

Dd2 (21 months) will have things easier as her grandpa has already started her college account. His plan will have her education paid for probably no matter where she wants to go. She's his only grandchild (and no more coming) so he can afford to do that.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

That's awesome! My girls are the only grandkids on both sides... nobody would do that for them. Not a big deal though, we'll figure it out.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzer Beater*
> 
> Dd1 has scholarships, Pell Grants, a job as an RA, and help from exh, grandmas, and stepdad. She also works part time, holidays, and summers. It's a stretch for her to get it together every year and I think she values her education more because of it as previous posters have suggested.
> 
> Dd2 (21 months) will have things easier as her grandpa has already started her college account. His plan will have her education paid for probably no matter where she wants to go. She's his only grandchild (and no more coming) so he can afford to do that.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

I am not saving currently. I do plan on assisting for undergrad for most if not all. Here is where it gets tricky, I will be amazed and so proud if DD1 goes to college but I also consider a 4 year degree to be the minimum standard these days. DD1 is severely dyslexic and just very basic school work is incredibly difficult for her, we have every single possible accommodation possible, tutoring, therapists... She does numerous sports, several competitive teams, they are not cheap, I almost consider them in place of her college fund. Coaching perhaps someday.

We don't have current college funds, something else always seems to come up. Maybe I have the wrong priorities, but right now I am at the place where if it is between a 2 week vacation or college fund, I'm going for the trip! I've got 2 kids that get 11-12 hours of private therapy a week, that has been going on for years, hopefully next year they will be done and that money will be funneled into college funds. Our 5 year plan also involves selling a profitable business that DH and I own, we have minimal debt with it so the money will be put away or things like college.


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## grahamsmom98 (May 15, 2002)

Not to put too fine a point on it, we're very well-off, financially. In addition, we will both inherit large estates when dh's Dad dies and when my Mom dies. We have zero debts (no mortgage at all, pay our credit cards in full each month, etc).

We started an education fund for any future children when we married. At this point (15+ years later), ds (age 13 and an only child) will be able to attend whatever college he wishes, in whatever field, with no financial hardship to us (or, him).

He'll receive an allowance, as well, while at college so he can concentrate on studies and not be worrying or losing sleep because of job concerns.

This is how things were done for both dh and myself by our parents and we'll do the same for ds.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *laohaire*
> 
> * DH and I believe a state college education is fine and that prestigious private colleges are generally (not always) overrated. Thankfully we went to the cheapest state college in our state. My parents would have loved for me to have a brand name sheepskin but I chose a different life ultimately.










Some of the prestigious ones would be worth the $$$ for graduate school, but I think its a waste of money for undergrad. The not so prestigious colleges? You can do just as well and get just as a good an education at the state school.


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## mamatoablessing (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzer Beater*
> 
> Dd2 (21 months) will have things easier as her grandpa has already started her college account. His plan will have her education paid for probably no matter where she wants to go. She's his only grandchild (and no more coming) so he can afford to do that.


Same with us. All of the granchildren in our family already have their 4 yrs worth of tuition in a trust account. We are incredibly lucky that we don't have to worry about saving, or not svaing, for their higher education.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

When grandma died, she left some money to each of the children. That will make a modest fund that will help, but it's not going to be nearly enough for a pricey private college. I expect the rest will come from: their part-time jobs, our contributing some, and depending on how expensive college gets, loans.

If all else fails, they will have the option of attending a state school with majorly reduced tuition as I'm an employee of our state universities. The problem is, I don't know if any of our state universities are going to be a good fit for our kids. 25 years of ever shrinking state funding means that the state now pays less than 20% of the universities' operating budgets, and the quality has suffered. In addition, ds at least, might thrive in a smaller institution. Dd will probably thrive no matter where she goes, and so it's a question of her having a good selection of majors to choose from. She could end up being anything from a social worker to a lawyer to a vet.


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

We started 529s for them when they were born.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I have a savings account and hope she gets grants and scholarships. If not she may have to go to a university in the state for her undergrad to save money. Depending on her grades I might allow her to have a part time job when she is a teen if she wants to save half her earnings for college. We also have family members who are willing to help so she should be able to focus on school.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

no idea.

its just dd and me. i cant imagine her paternal uncles doing anything to help.

however if dd does go to college, i will insist that she goes to community college first before she goes on to other schools. esp. if she decides to go to university rather than a state school. it wont surprise me if she decides to go to college abroad.


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

We have educational savings plans for both kids. I guess that will cover what it will, and then they will need to supplement by working themselves, by student loans if necessary, possibly extra help from us if we're doing better financially, scholarships hopefully, etc.

My kids are only 4 and 7 so we have a good eleven years before this will be an issue. I hope our own financial situation will be improved by that time, but if not we/they will find a way (assuming they want to study at university).


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

We're on a very limited income and are more worried about keeping the car running and the lights on at this point then some far off college. That being said, because i dont see my income being drastically increased by the time the kids are in college i figure they will qualify for lots of aid. Also, my state has a program where any child who is on Medicaid for at least 18 months from sixth grade on can qualify to have the first two years (and possibly the second two as well) of college instate paid. Hopefully that will still be around in a few years!

Oldest ds is currently trying to get into a high school that confers a college degree upon graduation (early college) so hopefully that will work out for him. Its very very expensive (though he should qualify for financial aid based upon parental income)...but i usually dont worry about his stuff getting paid as his paternal grandparents are well off and he's the first grandchild. They pretty much are willing to help out with whatever. My kids on the other hand dont have that luxury.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't know that my dd is going to college. If she decides to go that route she will most likely need to work, get scholarships, grants or take out loans to fund her education just like dh and myself.

I'm not opposed to helping dd with some of the costs but we do not have a bunch of money saved up for that purpose.

At one time one of the grandparents said they set aside some money for dd for a college fund but I suspect the money is not there and I wouldn't have dd count on it.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I was actually told there was money for both me and my brother to go to college. Then the time came and we found out that our dad took it and paid for his gambling addiction. So I joined the military. Had I retired I could have given my kids my GI bill. Since I didn't its all mine to use. And I have to say its gotten better than when I joined.


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## Ragana (Oct 15, 2002)

The same way DH and I did - work-study, off-campus jobs, scholarships, loans. I went to a small private college & DH went to a large state school. We have paid off our BAs and my MA, still paying off his master's currently (he went after me). That's our main debt (cars paid off, minimal credit card, no mortgage - we rent), but it's just not in the cards to save up enough for both of them and hope to retire. Hopefully, we will be able to help out with living at home, paying for a laptop or books, etc.

I have to say that I have been thinking about having them look into community college first, whether to collect basic credits or obtain a professional qualification before transferring to a 4-year school. As I said, I got my degrees from well-regarded private institutions, but am currently doing a certificate program at the local cc, and it's quite good. I am impressed by what they offer for the very minimal price.


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## Mummoth (Oct 30, 2003)

I put aside some money from my divorce settlement that will go toward the kids education, and DH will be adding to it from his mom's inheritance. We don't have money in our regular budget to put aside. I'd be shocked if XH's family contributes to the kids education at all. I hope the kids will decide to go to one of the many good local schools and continue to live at home while they go to school... I think we'll be able to cover school expenses, but definitely not their living or travel expenses on top of that if they move, unless our financial situation miraculously changes. The government here gives you up to $500/year depending on how much you put into an RESP for the kids, so that helps a lot.

The other thing we'll do is encourage the kids to look at college programs or technical school rather than university. It seems like you're a lot more likely to have a good job/career after them... I only know a few people who are actually using their university degree, and many who went back after university to get a certificate or diploma that was actually useful. If they decide they want to go to university, fine... but frankly I think they'd be better off even if they went to the art school rather than that!


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## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragana*
> 
> I have to say that I have been thinking about having them look into community college first, whether to collect basic credits or obtain a professional qualification before transferring to a 4-year school. As I said, I got my degrees from well-regarded private institutions, but am currently doing a certificate program at the local cc, and it's quite good. I am impressed by what they offer for the very minimal price.


I highly recommend this route. I completed the first two years of my undergraduate degree at a community college and then transferred to a well-regarded public university. It was a lot less expensive, plus I never could've gotten into the university I did with my high school grades alone.

I enjoyed the community college in many ways more than the university. The classes were much smaller which I think is really important those first couple of years. The teachers were accessible and were actually there to teach. They weren't there to publish or do research or get their graduate degree. There was lots of extra help available at the Learning Center. It was kind of like high school, only college.


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## JollyGG (Oct 1, 2008)

We aren't putting money away. Instead we are working very hard on our own debt. That way when the time comes we are hopefully in a financial place to help them out. We probably won't pay for it all. However, if we can we will. We are more likely to help them pay their student loans then we are to have a college fund before hand.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

I hope to save some money for them and pay for the rest with grants/loans/scholarships/part-time work. Right now we have a ton of student loan debt from both of our degrees and have opted for more family time over more time at work (I don't want to go from 3 days a week to 5 days a week if it'll mean I'm burning the candle at both ends and not getting time to enjoy my babe, even though I could make a very nice income). And she's still very small so there is time to save, but I do want to put away some money while she's little to take advantage of compound interest.

I think a community college is a good idea in theory, but IME the instructional quality is spotty--some instructors are great and some are lousy, so I'm leary of it. However, my husband teaches at our local CC, and if this is still the case when we have kids of the age to attend, he can figure out which instructors are better.


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## Cyllya (Jun 10, 2009)

What I'd *like* to do is start a "getting started in adult life" fund for each kid upon his or her birth and add to it as I can. Whether they use this for college tuition, starting a business, or even just purchasing their first car will be largely up to them. I'm not going to start a fund that can only be used on school.

But my fiance and I combined have $120,000 in student loan debt. As much as I want to help the kiddos more directly, I'm not sure I'll be able to. But I'm going to be very cautious about recommending college to them in the first place. I was surrounded by an "everyone who's not a loser goes to college" mentality when I was a teen, and look where it got me!


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## Snydley (Feb 22, 2012)

Hi-

DH and I recently hired a financial planner and he advised us to put a good portion of our extra money into one of these "life insurance to use while living" investments. It's moderate growth over time and the nice thing about it is that it can be used for kids' college or your retirement, depending on what your situation is when the time arises. It's important to remember that when it comes to colleges giving financial aid, they cannot ask you to give your retirement money to pay for the tuition (I don't think?). Some schools (private ones in particular) have large endowments and DO fully fund students who truly cannot afford to go but are accepted (at least, this was the case in the mid 90s when I went to undergrad).

I went to a small semi-prestigous private undergrad and I can support the OP comments fully; it really was largely a waste of money. Also, the other students were mostly SO rich (driving Range Rovers around campus, etc) that socially it was far from ideal. The "brand name" I hoped would give me an edge when applying to graduate school and beyond really did next to nothing for me. I really wish I went to a state school or even did the 2 years of community college then transferred to a 4 year. My friend did this and saved so much money!

Also, I currently work at well known university with a solid (not super competitive or 'top') reputation. They offer 90% off tuition to all my children so long as I am working there when they are in school. If I'm still there, I will tell DD (and the next if we have another) maybe when they are freshman in high school about how great it would be to pay nothing for undergrad, especially if they plan to continue on with a grad degree. I'm thinking of saying they will be taking out loans and working in the cafeteria (like I did) if they don't go this college. My DH thinks we should fund their "dream" if they are accepted someplace expensive that they really want to go- I'm thinking no way.

I also think funding your own retirement first is key (as previously mentioned). Three of our 4 parents have major financial problems due to gambling and buying on credit...and we may have to fund/deal with all of them (no siblings to help). It's a great gift to free your child of the potential burden of broke parents!!

I think parents should still encourage their kids to go to college but they really need to have an end-point marketable SKILL in mind when they start! English B.A.s will largely get you nowhere, unfortunately.

-Jen


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## Maren78 (Jan 8, 2012)

It will depend on what career the kids choose, DD1 states her desire of going to Germany, Switzerland or whatever German speaking country and go to Med School, she's a EU citizen so that prices wont be very high ( even though they've been getting higher each year) so I'm not really worried. It will worry me, however, if one of them decides that they want to go to school in the US, i've heard it's really expensive.


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## zebra15 (Oct 2, 2009)

DS *should* qualify for scholarships and grants. If not that child will be working. He just watched something on TIVO featuring Marc Zuckerburg and that solidified his determination for continued education.


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## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

We've started an investment account for our LO using the Baby Bonus (Baby Bonus is paid [by the federal govt] following the birth (including stillborn babies) or adoption of a child. It recognises the extra costs incurred at the time of a new birth or adoption.) which was $5300. We put in extra money at every birthday and Christmas and her grandparents contribute now and then also. At the moment it's just in a term deposit but, when we accumulate a bit more we might look into some higher risk/higher dividend investments.

When she finished high school she may have the money for whatever further education she wants, whether that is university, TAFE, an apprenticeship, her own business etc. If they want to go to university in their home town then they will be welcome to live at home to reduce costs.

We hope to have one more child and plan to do the same for him/her as well.

I would love to be able to pay for their tertiary education outright but I think it's very unlikely that we will be able to afford to on top of our own expenses and retirements plans.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

My oldest has a combination of scholarships, grants and working. I help him out with his rent. My youngest will do the same (and so will I). I won't say it's easy, and I wish I could help them more.


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zebra15*
> 
> DS *should* qualify for scholarships and grants. If not that child will be working. He just watched something on TIVO featuring Marc Zuckerburg and that solidified his determination for continued education.


I think Zuckerburg is a college drop out.......

Although certainly Harvard did provide a great start for his multi-billion dollar business. It seems he pretty much did it in his spare time, and it was not really part of his academic work at all. (I'm totally basing this on The Social Network, which was a good film but has been accused of a lot of inaccuracies and was probably more fiction than fact, so I could be mistaken about Zuckerburg's continued education).


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I have been putting small amounts of money into a 529 account. This currently amounts to bupkis, but it's about 3X as much bupkis as it used to be.

My MIL (STBX MIL OMGWTFBBQ?) has been sending savings bonds for every birthday. My mom, who is a little bit more into it than that, has been socking away money regularly in an investment account since the kid was born.

I do not think we will be able to save enough to get him all the way through school. I just don't, not even with my determined mother in the game. I haven't had the best fortune with money. We might get some help from my BIL (on my husband's side, I mean) and from my sister, who has no kids, and I am assuming that he will be motivated to find scholarships and work to make up the difference. I do not want him to take out big student loans, because the big student loan thing is why my stbx dh isn't going to have a lot of money to kick in.

I don't think there's a strong possibility that he would skip college. Universities have the facilities for the kinds of things he wants to learn. Every time he does something impressive I think, "Uh oh, let's think more about this saving for college business."


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I wonder how people are prepping their kids for college? I talk about going to college like it's tying your shoes. Something you just do.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> I wonder how people are prepping their kids for college? I talk about going to college like it's tying your shoes. Something you just do.


My dad did this. They were also involved in my application process, took me to look at all the state schools, and allowed me to choose my school. They didn't force anything (I applied to one school, got in, and went there - it was mostly a good place for me). I just always knew that I would go to college, because my parents never talked about school "ending" it was always elementary, middle, high school, college, and most likely grad school (but grad school was optional - college was not optional).


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## ollyoxenfree (Jun 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> I wonder how people are prepping their kids for college? I talk about going to college like it's tying your shoes. Something you just do.


-Yes, talk about it as a natural pathway.

-Explained pre-requisites for various careers that they are interested in exploring.

-Reassured them that we would find a way to finance any choice they made.

-We have friends who are professors and they enjoy spending time with the kids.

-Signed them up for extra-curricular activities and courses for kids at the university - When she was 12 or so, DD did a terrific lab science workshop on Saturday mornings and another on writing gaming software.

-Once the kids were in high school, we started touring campuses when we were vacationing. Lots of campuses have little art galleries, museums, and horticultural/garden exhibits.

I was in the middle of a graduate program when DS was born. DD arrived 5 days after the end of my last academic year, and as a breastfeeding infant, attended mandatory professional courses for licensing with me. DS doesn't remember much about it, but he spent a lot of time on campus for the first 3 years of his life. Arguably, DD has met mandatory course attendance requirements for the profession







.


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## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

My husband and I have not started saving for college for our 3 and 6 year old, and I doubt we ever will unless we come into some serious money. We make pretty good money in theory, but it just doesn't seem to be going as far as it use to go. If we're ever fortunate enough to have money to save for the kids, then we would not choose a 529 but rather something more open ended. Our son has special needs, so he may need money for other things.

Even though I have a BA, I don't really have any expectation that my kids will get a bachelor's much less go beyond that. I want them to follow their own paths. Right now my six year old says she doesn't want to go to college. She saw Toy Story 3 and got a complex about it because it looks so sad.









I'm thinking they'll need to do something past high school though, and my husband and I will do whatever we can to help. They could live here, and I guess we'd still feed them.







Fortunately, there are tons of schools in the area, everything from community colleges to an elite private university and everything in between.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

We don't have much saved for our kids education. We actually have a couple of educational funds set up, but they were both eviscerated in 2009. It's a source of heartbreak for us both. And now we've declared bankruptcy, so at this point we're focusing on not being a burden to our kids. Seriously, I feel pretty ashamed about this, since my parents managed a fair amount saved for all four of their childrens' college ed.

We are, however, encouraging our kids to go to college, and will help them where we can. We've got good community colleges around here and we'd be happy to have our kids live at home and get undergrad classes out of the way.

And yes, we're really urging our kids to investigate practical Associate degrees. A person can go to a 4-year and get a BS in biology, for example. Or a person can get an AS in medical lab technology and get a job pretty quick in a hospital or med center. The health care field is one of the few that weathered this recession very well.

Though I'm wondering how my daughter's avid interest in psychology can translate into an AA degree.

About State versus private, I've got to say that here in California, while per year it costs tens of thousands of dollars less to go to a state university compared to private universities like, say Stanford, it's still ridiculously expensive. I know, supposedly CA residents go 'tuition free' but in real terms 'fees' are crazy high. $36,000 for one year at UC Davis with no outside help, as of 4 years ago. And fees go up and up. Don't get me wrong, our UC's and CSU's are among the world's best universities, so I'm not saying it's not worth it. It's just not the economical alternative people so blithely speak of.

Edited for redundant redundancy.


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## Butterflykate (Aug 2, 2010)

This is where being in New Zealand is a God-send... right now we have interest free student loans if you stay in the country after graduating... The current Govt is trying to scrap it and bring interest back, they have tightened the rules some what so repeat students don't just live at university forever, but its nice to know any of my children can train as doctors as long as they don't leave the country they don't have to pay interest, the loan is repayed based on how much income you have, so if you never get a job you don't need to rush to pay it back, if you do then a portion of your income is automatically deducted.

We have set aside 5000 for each child for when they turn 21, The plan is it helps them move out of home and into the world if they are still here.


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## cat13 (Dec 8, 2010)

Well, DS is only 6 months, so I don't know what will happen in the long run. But we did set up a college fund for him that we'll put a little money away for him here and there. Mostly it's for the family who want to give lots of unnecessary presents - so hopefully we can get them to give to this instead. For example, my dad got a VA settlement from his injuries in Vietnam recently and put a good chunk of money in there for DS.

Personally, I had it pretty easy paying for college. Growing up I lived with my mom and we were really poor and I got great grades in high school. So I qualified for a ton of financial assistance and only had a few (very low interest, subsidized) loans. DH on the other hand, grew up in a family that was lower middle class, but just enough to not qualify for the things I received, even though his family couldn't afford to help him out. So now he has a ton of student loans that we'll be paying off for a long long time. My goal is that by the time DS is college aged, that DH and I will have a good income, so I know he won't qualify for lots of aid, but honestly I know we'll never make enough money to pay for all his school bills either. It's that weird middle-ground that hurts students.

Hopefully, the little money that's saved for him will help with the first couple of years and he can leave college without as much debt hanging over him like DH did.

As for affording this, it's really not much for us to put $20 in the account once every month or two. I know it won't add up to a ton, but it's something, and we don't really feel that "loss" in our daily lives right now. Plus, it's not necessary for DS to use this for school. If he decides not to go to college he can use this money to help with a car or downpayment on a house (although if he doesn't go to college, DH and I might have a heart attack!)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> I wonder how people are prepping their kids for college? *I talk about going to college like it's tying your shoes. Something you just do. *


Word!


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I don't really know if they'll all go to college. DS1 (ten years older than his next sibling) is over halfway through his first year. He's doing a three year acting program (if he qualifies for the second year - they only allow half the cohort to move on - I think he'll get in, though). He's getting a little money from a program my ex and I set up when he was a newborn. It's basically an interest pool, and I was making the minimum contribution, so it's peanuts...each year's payment is too small to even cover his books for that year, if last year was a reliable indiction of costs. It helps, though. Other than that, he's paid one term out of pocket, from his earnings at the movie theatre. His other term was a combo of student loans and a gift from his step-grandparents. He's going to save up enough to pay for one term out of pocket again next year, and then probably do the same thing for third year (ie. save up enough for the first term, then do the second term with loans). Our major contribution is that he still lives at home, so his living expenses are pretty much limited to clothing, gifts and entertainment. He doesn't spend a lot, as a rule.

I don't know how much we'll help with the younger ones. DH makes a decent income, but I'm home with the kids, and COL in Vancouver is really high.

But, I've never been of the mindset that post-secondary education is a parental responsibility. I also don't think there's quite as much emphasis on it in Canada as in the US. (I could be wrong about that, but I've talked to other people about it, and there does seem to be a somewhat different cultural attitude about it.) We'll just have to see what happens.

My mom may or may not help out as the kids get older. But, honestly - she has 12 grandchildren, and all but one of my nieces and nephews are in worse financial situations than we are. if mom does end up helping with college, it probably won't be for my kids.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> I wonder how people are prepping their kids for college? I talk about going to college like it's tying your shoes. Something you just do.


I'm not really, at least not now. I'd seem like a total hypocrite talking about it as something you just do, though. I never went (a year of community college, to get some practical skills, as I did a full academic program at high school, and had no real world use for it whatsoever - some of it was fun, though - mostly the math). DH didn't finish his degree. Neither of my siblings graduated from high school. My dad didn't graduate from high school. My mom's the only one in our family with a degree...and she got it a year before I finished high school, so it's not as though she did the approved "graduate, go to university" thing. Going to colllege isn't something you just do in my family.

If dd1 continues with present career aspirations, she'll have to go, though. She wants to be an arachnologist (seriously - where did this child come from?), and I'm sure she'll need university for that!


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> If dd1 continues with present career aspirations, she'll have to go, though. She wants to be an *arachnologist* (seriously - where did this child come from?), and I'm sure she'll need university for that!


As in spiders?? I'm sure she's lovely, but I don't want anything to do with spiders.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

We save, but not for university. University is free here. In fact, you get a small salary while in university, up to age 25, to pay for rent, books... Of course, we pay 25% tax on everything we buy, 180% tax on cars, 7 dollars/gallon for gas, luxury tax on sugar, butter....so it really isn't free, it's just saved up by the govt instead of us. Problem is if they want to go to university in another country. Then I guess we will help out, but they will need scholarships.

I had a boyfriend in high school, one of nine kids, and the parents could not afford higher education for all the kids. Yet all were expected to go to college, there was not a question of if. And the college should be one of the Ivy League, and the kids should get in on full scholarship, and once in, the kids should pay for all their expenses. So he got himself a scholarship to an Ivy League, but that kind of pressure on an 18 can be immense, and he ended up cutting his wrists. Ivy League with all those strings attached was not worth that, imo. Teaching an 18 yo independence and responsibility is one thing, but this was so over the top it was disgusting.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ollyoxenfree*
> 
> I was in the middle of a graduate program when DS was born. DD arrived 5 days after the end of my last academic year, and as a breastfeeding infant, attended mandatory professional courses for licensing with me. DS doesn't remember much about it, but he spent a lot of time on campus for the first 3 years of his life. Arguably, DD has met mandatory course attendance requirements for the profession
> 
> ...


My DS was the only person at my law school to cross the graduation stage twice. He got to walk with both his dad and me. He was also the youngest person ever to attend Torts with my professor (he was 1mo when I took him to his first law school class).


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## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> She wants to be an arachnologist (seriously - where did this child come from?), and I'm sure she'll need university for that!


I figured spiders from the "arach" part, but I don't think I've ever heard of an arachnologist. That's really cool!


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## Buzzer Beater (Mar 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> I wonder how people are prepping their kids for college? I talk about going to college like it's tying your shoes. Something you just do.


Or something they may do themselves. I never spent much time talking with dd1 about what she wants to do with her life, as far as "expectations" anyway. I did tell her she could do anything she wanted to if she set her mind to it. She was very self-regulating studying in high school, taking AP courses and making sure she got good grades. She knew from a young age she wanted to go to college and she's doing great there.


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## JayGee (Oct 5, 2002)

We have 529 educational savings plans for all 3 kids, plus,since DH is retired Air Force, DS is beneficiary for his GI bill benefit. We won't be able to afford a schmancy private school like I went to (Colby College), but there will be enough for in-state tuition.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> As in spiders?? I'm sure she's lovely, but I don't want anything to do with spiders.


Yes - spiders. She thinks the Goliath birdeating tarantula is the most beautiful animal in the world. We were recently reading a book about "the tarantula scientist" and there was a passage near the beginning, where the guy was trying to coax a Goliath out of her burrow. DD1's reaction was, "where is that, mama? Can I go there one day? I want to do that". The highlight of her homeschooling year, so far, has been the "critter" guy who came to our homelearning meetup and let her hold a tarantula, and have it crawl on her. I can't even describe the smile.

For contrast....I had a garden spider drop from the ceiling right in front of me one morning (I call them "paratroopers' when they do this), and was on edge for about four hours. If a spider is more than about 1mm across, I can't bring myself to get within five feet of them. I can't even describe how hard it was to get close enough to dd1 to get pictures of her with the big ones. Blech.

We're homeschooling. It's been a pretty major push out of my comfort zone...but dh is still going to have to take her to the big Bug Zoo in May. I can't handle that....


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AbbyGrant*
> 
> I figured spiders from the "arach" part, but I don't think I've ever heard of an arachnologist. That's really cool!


She's a neat kid. Her aspirations, so far, have been ballet dancing, midwifery, farming and arachnology...but the arachnology is the enduring one.


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## Mummoth (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> She's a neat kid. Her aspirations, so far, have been ballet dancing, midwifery, farming and arachnology...but the arachnology is the enduring one.


My DD1's longtime dream is to be an ice cream truck driver. My mom's comment on it was "Well, that's nice and attainable!" Except she wouldn't be successful because her plan is to wait until the kids get almost to the truck and then take off so they'll all cry and she'll eat all the ice cream. I told her they only have ice cream trucks in the summer, so her backup plan is to have a cupcake bakery... I approve of that!

DS wants to be a video game tester... he already kind of is! Can you get paid for that?


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mummoth*
> 
> *My DD1's longtime dream is to be an ice cream truck driver. My mom's comment on it was "Well, that's nice and attainable!" Except she wouldn't be successful because her plan is to wait until the kids get almost to the truck and then take off so they'll all cry and she'll eat all the ice cream.* I told her they only have ice cream trucks in the summer, so her backup plan is to have a cupcake bakery... I approve of that!
> 
> DS wants to be a video game tester... he already kind of is! Can you get paid for that?












There are paying video game tester jobs, yes. My hunch is that there aren't a lot! More and more colleges are offering video game design and production programs, AA through Masters degree.


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## nwatt (Sep 3, 2009)

We have not started saving for our kids' college yet, but their grandparents have. We are, however, going to make sure that our kids do not have to take out any loans for their schooling. We plan on starting to add to the funds their g-parents started very soon.

College and Grad school will be talked about as something that is simply a natural part of life. They will go, at least to undergrad, and if they do not want to go to grad school they better have a VERY good plan for what they want to do with their lives. This is how DH and I were raised, as were our parents. Even 3 out of my 4 grandparents when to college. It is just what is done in our families.


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## zebra15 (Oct 2, 2009)

Yes Zuckerburg dropped out of Harvard but DS was so thrilled with the idea of professors, other classmates etc that he is officially sold on the idea of higher learning. (classmates with the same passion for learning and creating that he has)


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

For the first 15 years we were parents, we lived on one income, my DH's, and I focused on raising the kids and running our home. I recently returned to work full time mostly to pay for our kids education. Our goal is state university and no debt. For us, this is attainable. Even though we weren't able to save for their college up til now, we never got used to living on 2 incomes.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journeymom*
> 
> We don't have much saved for our kids education. We actually have a couple of educational funds set up, but they were both eviscerated in 2009. It's a source of heartbreak for us both. And now we've declared bankruptcy, so at this point we're focusing on not being a burden to our kids. Seriously, I feel pretty ashamed about this, since my parents managed a fair amount saved for all four of their childrens' college ed.
> 
> ...


Our finances are not where we expected them to be at this point because of the events of the last few years either. We took a huge, huge, huge hit on a house and started over financially a couple of years ago. I'm sorry about your bankruptcy.









We are also advocating for marketable skills before a degree -- starting with getting certificated to be a lifeguard when they are 16. It's great to have a lovely plan involving a four year degree (or grad school) and a plan to pay for it all, but sh*t happens. One of my DDs is considering becoming an EMT before she starts her degree.

Even if nothing goes wrong and one skates through their degree with ease and mommy and daddy can keep up with tuition, room and books, most students work while they at university. Might as well be as something skilled. It's so much easier to find a job when you know how to DO something that people actually need done.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> For the first 15 years we were parents, we lived on one income, my DH's, and I focused on raising the kids and running our home. I recently returned to work full time mostly to pay for our kids education. Our goal is state university and no debt because of it. For us, this is attainable. Even though we weren't able to save for their college up til now, we never got used to living on 2 incomes.


Yep, same here....I'm looking for a job and my college kids will have to work part time.


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## Butterflykate (Aug 2, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllisonR*
> 
> We save, but not for university. University is free here. In fact, you get a small salary while in university, up to age 25, to pay for rent, books... Of course, we pay 25% tax on everything we buy, 180% tax on cars, 7 dollars/gallon for gas, luxury tax on sugar, butter....so it really isn't free, it's just saved up by the govt instead of us. Problem is if they want to go to university in another country. Then I guess we will help out, but they will need scholarships.
> 
> I had a boyfriend in high school, one of nine kids, and the parents could not afford higher education for all the kids. Yet all were expected to go to college, there was not a question of if. And the college should be one of the Ivy League, and the kids should get in on full scholarship, and once in, the kids should pay for all their expenses. So he got himself a scholarship to an Ivy League, but that kind of pressure on an 18 can be immense, and he ended up cutting his wrists. Ivy League with all those strings attached was not worth that, imo. Teaching an 18 yo independence and responsibility is one thing, but this was so over the top it was disgusting.


Weh ave a student loan thing here to, money borrowed that one day has to be paid back to help with rent and books, but its not really much

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> I wonder how people are prepping their kids for college? I talk about going to college like it's tying your shoes. Something you just do.


I would never tell my children they have to go to university, it is their life to live and I just don't believe that its my job to tell another adult what they should do with their lives. I do help and encourage them with what they are good at and try to guide them. I think the whole "You need to make a decision about your life now" can be probably one of the worst things you can do to a child, as they will make many choices in their life that will define it.

Am I the only one who feels like that? Always wondered if that was a just me thing after seeing some friends of mine deal with their children.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Butterflykate*
> 
> I would never tell my children they have to go to university, it is their life to live and I just don't believe that its my job to tell another adult what they should do with their lives. I do help and encourage them with what they are good at and try to guide them. I think the whole "You need to make a decision about your life now" can be probably one of the worst things you can do to a child, as they will make many choices in their life that will define it.
> 
> Am I the only one who feels like that? Always wondered if that was a just me thing after seeing some friends of mine deal with their children.


I'm the same way. I had loosely planned to go back to school in my mid to late 30s, once my youngest child was in school. As it happened, I didn't end up having my last child until I was already in my 40s, and we've decided to homeschool, so my tentative plan has been out of the question for a long time. Life happens...I had unexpected fertility issues, ended up with no assets at the end of my first marriage (had planned to use some of the assets I'd have built up at that point to fund my future education), and never did decide what I wanted to study, anyway. I don't think I'll ever go back to school, but I don't care, either. I do know that if I'd gone right after high school, I'd have dropped out within a year, two at most - and wasted a lot of money and time.

We'll see what happens with my kids. I honestly wasn't expecting ds1 to do the post-secondary route. I thought he'd just head out and try to find an agent and start auditioning. He feels this is a better approach, though. I'm not even remotely qualified to give him advice on the acting industry, so we'll let him figure it out.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Butterflykate*
> 
> I would never tell my children they have to go to university, it is their life to live and I just don't believe that its my job to tell another adult what they should do with their lives.


I've never told my children they *have* to go to university, but I don't think they are adults. I do think that part of my job as a parent is to help steer my offspring toward decisions that will they will be pleased with. We feel they need to have a plan, but plan other than college can be fine. Working at fast food or retail waiting for something more interesting to "just happen" isn't a plan.

But trade school, starting a business, etc. are all plans.

I think that teens are most likely best off getting guidance from their parents but being allowed to make their own choices.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Holy flippin awesome! I asked DD1 what she wanted to be when she grew up and she said a cat rescuer. And DD2 says she doesn't care but she's never getting a job. YAY ME!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mummoth*
> 
> My DD1's longtime dream is to be an ice cream truck driver. My mom's comment on it was "Well, that's nice and attainable!" Except she wouldn't be successful because her plan is to wait until the kids get almost to the truck and then take off so they'll all cry and she'll eat all the ice cream. I told her they only have ice cream trucks in the summer, so her backup plan is to have a cupcake bakery... I approve of that!
> 
> DS wants to be a video game tester... he already kind of is! Can you get paid for that?


----------



## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Our finances are not where we expected them to be at this point because of the events of the last few years either. We took a huge, huge, huge hit on a house and started over financially a couple of years ago. I'm sorry about your bankruptcy.


Thanks, I sincerely appreciate it.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

We've been saving. Hopefully we will be able to afford basically the entire cost of a four year education at a state school (with the kids helping). We have a healthy income, though it is on the low-average side for the area we live. Because of that our kids will not be eligible for many sources of financial aid, so we need to be prepared to finance it ourself.

Something people haven't mentioned yet, that I wanted to mention, is that if you are "lower income" one of the Ivy league schools (especially if not geographically remote) may be cheaper than a state school:

http://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/college-planning/admissions/ivy-league-admissions5.htm

Quote:


> In recent years, Harvard, Princeton and Yale introduced sliding scale tuition policies that offer significant discounts to students from middle-to-lower-income households. In some cases, no payment is required.
> 
> In the case of *Yale and Harvard*, if a *student's family earns less than $60,000 a year, they will pay nothing for their education.* At both schools, the percentage the student pays goes up incrementally (from zero to 10 percent of annual income) with family earnings of $60,000 to $120,000 a year [source: Fitzsimmons and Yale Public Affairs]. In 2008, *Dartmouth eliminated tuition for students from families with incomes under $75,000* and extended its need-blind admissions policy to international students [source: Dartmouth Public Affairs].
> 
> Princeton is unique among Ivies (and all U.S. colleges for that matter) for its "no loans" policy for all students. *If you get into Princeton, the college will supply grants -- not loans -- to pay for all demonstrated need, allowing each and every student to graduate debt-free.* The "no loans" policy proved incredibly successful for attracting low-income applicants to Princeton. From 1998-99 (when the no loans system was launched) to 2005-06, matriculation of low-income student doubled at Princeton [source: FinAid].


If your child has the ability, it can be a financially excellent choice for them to not work during high school and focus soley on getting into a top tier school that can completely fund their education. Not a choice for everyone, but if it works for you it is an amazing opportunity!

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> The price of a college education keeps rising, even if I started now, how can I be sure I could really pay for it all without having to mortgage my house and take out loans?


The other way of looking at that: if you don't start saving you KNOW you won't be able to pay for it. I'm not suggesting you need to, but we are saving knowing that while we would love to pay for the whole "thing" we probably won't be able to. We started putting away a little each month when DD was born (and I was a SAHP and DP was in grad school) and have just kept it up. The stock market has trashed it, but I try to look at it like, "well, it's more than if we weren't saving!"

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *laohaire*
> 
> * Our income is limited, and so we are prioritizing paying off our own mortgage and saving for retirement. Sounds selfish but honestly, I think it's a great gift to DD to have parents in a stable position. I get nervous about my own parents, actually, and I would be hugely resentful if I had to take care of them financially. And the fact is - and this is another bullet point I guess -
> 
> ...


I've had a lot of the same thoughts as you. In response:

* Have you considered a Roth IRA as a retirement savings vehicle? You can remove the principal amount at any time *without penalty or tax*. Both DP & I have Roth IRAs (well, we have for a few years now) with the thought in the back of our mind that we could always take the principal out if we *really* needed to.

* ITA about not saving when you're paying off loans (unless you somehow had an investment opportunity that guaranteed a rate of return that was higher than your student loan interest rate). Maybe you'll have some of the loans paid off by the time your kids are ready for college and be able to use that money you had been using for your loans for their expenses? Just something to hope for!

* ITA with state college. I feel very grateful to live near and excellent state university!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JollyGG*
> 
> We aren't putting money away. Instead we are working very hard on our own debt. That way when the time comes we are hopefully in a financial place to help them out. We probably won't pay for it all. However, if we can we will. We are more likely to help them pay their student loans then we are to have a college fund before hand.


This is part of our plan as well. We have been actively paying down our mortgage since we bought our house in the hopes of paying it off before DD heads off to college--- then we can just transition that money towards her education. Luckily her and DS are four years apart in school so they won't have as much overlap as one would have predicted.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> I wonder how people are prepping their kids for college? I talk about going to college like it's tying your shoes. Something you just do.


That is also where we are. If one of my children had a non-college sensical passion or skill, I would certainly support that but in our family college is the default. They also see most of their older cousins going to college and see that as just what you do. Their oldest cousin is a nurse, the next oldest starts med school in the fall (three acceptances so far, she's just deciding where to go), two more cousins are in college and two are currently applying!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> My dad did this. They were also involved in my application process, took me to look at all the state schools, and allowed me to choose my school. They didn't force anything (I applied to one school, got in, and went there - it was mostly a good place for me). I just always knew that I would go to college, because my parents never talked about school "ending" it was always elementary, middle, high school, college, and most likely grad school (but *grad school was optional - college was not optional*).


That's pretty much how we present it as well. We do mention that there are some options that do not require a college degree, but that you need to have a real plan before forgoing additional education.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mummoth*
> 
> My DD1's longtime dream is to be an ice cream truck driver. My mom's comment on it was "Well, that's nice and attainable!" Except she wouldn't be successful because her plan is to wait until the kids get almost to the truck and then take off so they'll all cry and she'll eat all the ice cream. I told her they only have ice cream trucks in the summer, so her backup plan is to have a cupcake bakery... I approve of that!
> 
> DS wants to be a video game tester... he already kind of is! Can you get paid for that?


If you haven't introduced your DD1 to King Missile's Cheesecake Truck song, you need to:

http://www.metrolyrics.com/cheesecake-truck-lyrics-king-missile.html

As for DS, was that a real question (as in, you would like an answer)? Because, yes, video game testing is a career choice. There are two main tracks for it, though. At the large software company in Redmond, WA at least you have mostly contracted employees who do the fun testing you're picturing (and not too many of them). Then, there are what are called "testers"--- they test the actual software and find bugs and stuff. They also get to play around on the games. There are even people who work for the "Live" service who's job it is to interact with people on games online (basically) as well as people who get paid to ban people, lol. There is definately a lot of options in game testing!


----------



## Butterflykate (Aug 2, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> I've never told my children they *have* to go to university, but I don't think they are adults. I do think that part of my job as a parent is to help steer my offspring toward decisions that will they will be pleased with. We feel they need to have a plan, but plan other than college can be fine. Working at fast food or retail waiting for something more interesting to "just happen" isn't a plan.
> 
> ...


I agree, but children become adults, and I don't think its my place to decide or tell them what to do with the rest of their long life. That's why I said I don't believe its my place to tell an adult what to do with their lives, I may guide them towards helping them find out or figure out what they wish to do... but once they hit 18 I no longer tell my children what they should be doing, or should not be doing. As long as its not illegal I try not to but in... I do warn them though that there are consequences to actions.

Here 18 is the drinking age, its the voting age, and they are no longer my legal responsibility. I leave it up to them unless they ask for advice. So once past high school, I never tell them they have to do anything. I guide them if they wish for it, but also let them know I love them. 6 months after finishing high-school if they wish to remain in my home they have to pay to be there. Adults are adults...

Even my overly special needs one is out in the world, in an independent living program and doing great. Has been since age 17, living with care worker support in a small one bedroom house. Making wonderful decisions about what is best.

I'm a proud Mother!


----------



## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Butterflykate*
> 
> Weh ave a student loan thing here to, money borrowed that one day has to be paid back to help with rent and books, but its not really much
> 
> ...


In this culture, when children are smart and capable, we tell them we expect them to go to college.

What if the child who could choose any career path chooses one that doesn't involve college, in the end? Well, you expressed faith that they were capable of college, so you express faith that they're capable of making it in their chosen field of endeavor. If it's something honest and admirable and they aren't being horribly exploited, you have to be happy about it. There are still a few fields left like that--they all involve some skill and training, if not college, but you're talking about telling children they have to go to university. No, I agree, I wouldn't tell him he had to go.

I have a lot of education and it has availed me little in many important situations. I enjoyed getting it and I wouldn't want to deprive my son of the experience of studying as much as he likes, where he likes. I also don't believe college is the sole way forward to independence and success. I just have to try to provide all the opportunities I can, or at least support them.


----------



## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Working at fast food or retail waiting for something more interesting to "just happen" isn't a plan.


Perhaps, but it could lead to one. Much to the disappointment of my parents, I worked restaurant and retail jobs for several years after high school before deciding to go to college in a serious way. I just didn't have the motivation to take it on before that. I ended up getting so much more out of my college experience by waiting and going on my own terms. I also learned a lot over the years working in retail and restaurants and met a lot of interesting people including some who had managed to make a career out of it.


----------



## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I know a lot of people who worked their way there. Obviously they weren't ready for college and when they finally were they did great and honestly considered it to be a great thing. While I want my kids to go to college for the experience and the piece of paper they can put on their resume, I don't find it to be the most important thing they can do. All I care about is that they are happy. I have friends well into their thirties that work their butts off all year long and then take the winter off to ski and travel. The important thing is their experiences. I just got a picture from a friend of mine that shows him playing in the water with elephants. He's doing all this fun stuff and only works a part of the year. Lives cheap and saves. I've met so many people that just up and went somewhere interesting... just because. And really, I love that attitude. Yeah eventually they'll want to settle down and finish college or work a job that will allow them stability... but right now I think they're just having fun. And I respect that choice. If my girls do something like that... AWESOME! Send mama some pictures and bring me back something interesting.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AbbyGrant*
> 
> Perhaps, but it could lead to one. Much to the disappointment of my parents, I worked restaurant and retail jobs for several years after high school before deciding to go to college in a serious way. I just didn't have the motivation to take it on before that. I ended up getting so much more out of my college experience by waiting and going on my own terms. I also learned a lot over the years working in retail and restaurants and met a lot of interesting people including some who had managed to make a career out of it.


----------



## Butterflykate (Aug 2, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> All I care about is that they are happy.


Sigh wet beds are no fun way to wake up at 4am lol

This I agree with. Happiness is so important. If that means being an artist and not being paid much but being happy, then I am happy with that. If it means trying to be a writer but failing for 10 years before being noticed, then sure... as long as they are happy and surviving ok. As long as safety and happiness are met, and they can survive in the world fine. Then I am happy to support them in whatever they choose.


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## MrsGregory (Dec 21, 2011)

This thread has been very, very informative. My mother got her degree from an Ivy League institution; father was a short order cook that barely made it out of high school when she met him. She was begged not to marry him, I've heard. Her education was paid for by her family. I was never prepared for college, beyond being advised that I would, if I knew what was good for me, complete the college prep coursework in my high school. When college time rolled around I was told that I was expected to go, but there was no money to help me. There were no discussions prior with the exception of some random nagging about applications. No talk of my goals, no questions about what I wanted from the experience, no conversations about the process in general. I did not go to college. I do not regret that decision (yet?).

So, when husband and I got down to the business of making new people, we had the college talk, and the position I'm at is that I don't care if daughter goes or not, however, I will have funds available to assist her if she decides to go. But this thread has made me realize that there is more work to be done to lay that foundation, because I would prefer that she have some college education if it is still anything of value to have, or is anything she wants. It really hadn't occurred to me that preparing her for college would start in... well, maybe junior high. Thanks, folks!


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

My two older children have both expressed interest in going to a funky school away from home and living in residence. I don't want to pop their bubble, but it is quite unrealistic. I have told them that if that is what they want to do, they will need to:

-get really good grades and a scholarship. I am willing to help them get the grades they need through tutoring and the like, but they need to take some responsibility for it themselves.

or

-work a lot and perhaps even take a year off school and work to pay for such a thing.

Some tactics/ideas in our household include:

1. live at home and go to college or university - rent free. There are 2 major universities in the nearest city, and one large college. We will probably move to the city within the next couple of years - the availability of higher education is one of those reasons.

2. We have some saving (RESP's). It might cover about one year of tuition per child - but nothing more. We might be able to bump up this figure - but not by huge amounts.

3. Encourage co-op, dual credit (which is much cheaper than regular courses!!!) and working for a semester or year before going to school.


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## suzywan (Feb 5, 2004)

I haven't read the whole thread, so this may have been discussed, but financial advisers recommend not contributing to college savings unless you have maxed out your retirement contributions. You can receive neither loans nor scholarships for retirement, so your best financial bet is to secure funds for your golden years.

We plan to help our kids out as much as possible during their college years, but do not intend to save prior to that time. Our incomes and potential incomes (plus various inheritances) will be able to provide plenty. Also, unless a particular child has a serious academic bent, we will encourage them each to get some real world experience before settling down in college and/or getting their pre-reqs out of the way at a community college. No need to pay $$$$ for English 101


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## grahamsmom98 (May 15, 2002)

Will you pay for your child's education if it is for something of which you do not approve?

We've told ds the money is there for him to go to whatever college and study whatever he wants, with the exception of a few subjects. I will not specify them here (I don't want to start a flamefest!), so don't ask. But, he knows that if he wants to study x, y or z, he pays for that part of his education himself.

Happily, at this point, he has no interest in any of those subjects so I don't see that as a problem!


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## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grahamsmom98*
> 
> Will you pay for your child's education if it is for something of which you do not approve?
> 
> ...


I won't ask, but you certainly have piqued my curiosity. I'm wondering if this is for moral reasons or practical ones.

I'm having a hard time coming up with a particular course of study that I wouldn't help fund based on moral grounds. I can think of lots of subjects that might not necessarily lead to financial success, but I'd still help however I could. I don't have a problem with education for the sake of education.

The only thing I can think of that I most likely wouldn't help with is paying for one those for-profit schools because they're a rip-off.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grahamsmom98*
> 
> Will you pay for your child's education if it is for something of which you do not approve?
> 
> ...


Wow, how very controlling. Shouldn't you just hope that the course of study your child chooses lead him/her to have a happy, independent life?


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

We don't have any specific college-related fund set up for DD (at least yet), we are simply saving. DD's very young but she has expressed great interest in being a veterinarian, which I think is a common dream among young people but at the same time she has shown a lot of talent in math and science-related stuff, so I don't think the dream is a stretch. In reality, there are very few veterinarian schools in the U.S. and they are highly competitive. The cost is either equal to or close to medical school (from what I've researched). Even if she doesn't ultimately do something like veterinarian school, she may remain interested in the sciences and there are still an array of educational costs on any front. DD goes to a private school now and I imagine that I will continue be able to pay out a certain amount per year in her post-secondary education.

I'd like to help her out and here's why: I received full academic scholarships for undergrad, but eventually had to take out loans for law school. I've been paying on the loans for years and I don't really think too hard about them any more, and while I think that my post-grad education has improved my financial picture many times over, the cost has limited my life options in many ways. I'm grateful, and I'm lucky, and I take full responsibility for my decisions, but I'd like DD to have a little more financial flexibility in her life, especially if she does decide to have a family some day.

Finally, I also think that preparing your child for making honest and practical decisions with regard to what they want to study or become is just as important as thinking about the costs. I say this because although my parents were fine with the idea of me going to college, and perhaps even encouraged it, I had zero guidance from them in my early years about course of action/study. I went to college armed with certain personal ideals, but floundered around and didn't have any real direction for a few years. No one discussed with me my strengths or weaknesses or whether a course of study would be beneficial in the long-term (not saying that education in itself is not beneficial, just saying that for the cost and investment, a little more mindfulness in how you're spending the money is critical, IMO).

Edited to say: whoops, just read the last few posts and wanted to add that my point regarding the mindfulness of what you are going to study is not about limitations, but about addressing the realities of cost of education and the reality of the market (as well as factors such as life/work balance, etc.). After going through these issues myself, I want to make DD aware of all the variables.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrsGregory*
> 
> It really hadn't occurred to me that preparing her for college would start in... well, maybe junior high. Thanks, folks!


You might even need to revise that downwards, lol. DS is in 4th grade and a project his class is working on is planning their education based on a career goal. So, they have to identify a career choice they are interested in, determine what degree they would need to get, research one state school and one out of state school they could get the education (including cost of that education), identify any other things they should be doing on the way to that (including what high school classes they would need to take, what activities, etc...). Oh, and then make a powerpoint presentation with the information. They are doing this all in class, so I'm really interested to see what info they'll come up with.


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grahamsmom98*
> 
> *Will you pay for your child's education if it is for something of which you do not approve?*
> 
> ...


I'm exhausted, so forgive me, but I can't even think of something that would fall into this category.

If I'm Graham, I'm going to university to study something fairly generic (something you would pay for) simply to appease you. I will then obtain a graduate degree in the subject I'm truly passionate about, yanno, the one I have to pay for. I would gladly take a free undergraduate degree even if it means paying for my own graduate degree(s) in the field(s) that I truly love.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> Finally, *I also think that preparing your child for making honest and practical decisions with regard to what they want to study or become is just as important* as thinking about the costs. I say this because although my parents were fine with the idea of me going to college, and perhaps even encouraged it, I had zero guidance from them in my early years about course of action/study. I went to college armed with certain personal ideals, but floundered around and didn't have any real direction for a few years. *No one discussed with me my strengths or weaknesses or whether a course of study would be beneficial in the long-term* (not saying that education in itself is not beneficial, just saying that for the cost and investment, a little more mindfulness in how you're spending the money is critical, IMO).
> 
> Edited to say: whoops, just read the last few posts and wanted to add that my point regarding *the mindfulness of what you are going to study is not about limitations, but about addressing the realities of cost of education and the reality of the market* (as well as factors such as life/work balance, etc.). After going through these issues myself, I want to make DD aware of all the variables.


Though I would never dangle a carrot, the above is so much more important to us than paying for education.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I can't imagine what that would be... stripper courses?







I'm not paying for school anyway.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grahamsmom98*
> 
> Will you pay for your child's education if it is for something of which you do not approve?
> 
> ...


----------



## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

The only thing I can think of that might cause some concern are interesting fields - such as rolfing or astrology. I also thought she might have meant one of those private colleges that you see on the TV - often 3-6 month programs for big dollars, with little help in finding a job&#8230;.


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## cristeen (Jan 20, 2007)

At this point we haven't started saving yet, but DS is 2 and #2 hasn't arrived yet. Great-grandma HAS started saving for both. She opened the first savings account within about a week of us announcing our first pregnancy. I imagine when she dies she'll be leaving a chunk of her estate to my kids as well (her only descendents). She and my late grandpa had accounts for my sister and I when we were younger, they're huge believers in higher education.

We will help our kids out how we can, but there's no telling how that may be. There are half a dozen large schools within an hour of our house (both public and private), so it may very well mean free room/board during school. We'll see. We have no intention of paying for their schooling though - if we can we will, but they will not know that until after the fact.

We will also be teaching them that we expect them to get a degree. I don't have one, and DH is working on his right now (in his 40s). We're the first in our families not to get them, and are dealing with the repercussions of it. But, if they need to take a break after HS before going to college, that is totally acceptable. As is pursuing a vocation instead. But they need a plan.


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## Tjej (Jan 22, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> Holy flippin awesome! I asked DD1 what she wanted to be when she grew up and she said a cat rescuer. And DD2 says she doesn't care but she's never getting a job. YAY ME!


Nice. My DS told me the other day tha the wants to be a police officer - because he likes killing... I told him being a hunter would be a better fit then... 

As far as college prep - we talk about it like it is what people do. I also tell my DD she can date when she is 33. And we talk about how the kids will take care of us when we are old. I'm planting ideas and having a little fun while I can and they are young. 

Savings - we have set aside a few thousand for higher education for them. We're generally paying off our mortgage for now and I expect to help them with school but not pay it all. We'll see.

Tjej


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cristeen*
> 
> &#8230;. We have no intention of paying for their schooling though - if we can we will, but they will not know that until after the fact.
> 
> We will also be teaching them that we expect them to get a degree.


Saying you have no intentions of paying for their schooling while simultaneously saying you expect them to get a degree seems a little odd, to me.

If you genuinely have an expectation that they should go to college or uni, then you should make a plan to help pay for it.


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## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> The only thing I can think of that might cause some concern are interesting fields - such as rolfing or astrology. I also thought she might have meant one of those private colleges that you see on the TV - often 3-6 month programs for big dollars, with little help in finding a job&#8230;.


Except she said they'd pay for whatever college just not certain subjects. This has led me to googling "unusual" and "controversial" college majors instead of going to the grocery store like I'm supposed to be doing .







But then I wouldn't have learned that UC Santa Barbara has a Porn 101 class.


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## grahamsmom98 (May 15, 2002)

Quote:


> If I'm Graham, I'm going to university to study something fairly generic (something you would pay for) simply to appease you. I will then obtain a graduate degree in the subject I'm truly passionate about, yanno, the one I have to pay for. I would gladly take a free undergraduate degree even if it means paying for my own graduate degree(s) in the field(s) that I truly love.


That's fine with us and we have no problem with it, if this is what he decides to do.

Like I said, there are just a few degrees that we will not pay for. Knowing that, in advance, makes it easier for him to do his own planning and saving. But, he has no interest, at this time, to go into any of those fields.

Should he change his mind and end up desiring one of those fields, paying for the additional courses himself (through work or scholarship), that is his choice and we'll say nay about it. He'll be an adult and it will be his choice and his own personal finances.

I don't really see how this is controlling, as he'll have the choice of paying for the advanced degree, should he choose, himself. If he chooses to work his way through college or gets full scholarships, for whatever reason, he can study whatever he wants and the money that we saved for his education will be there for him to have after, no conditions. He'd be able to buy a house or set-up a business, debt-free. It will be his choice.


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## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grahamsmom98*
> 
> If he chooses to work his way through college or gets full scholarships, for whatever reason, he can study whatever he wants and the money that we saved for his education will be there for him to have after, no conditions. He'd be able to buy a house or set-up a business, debt-free. It will be his choice.


If there are no conditions, then that would leave the door open to him paying off student loans he may have taken out to pay for the degree you didn't want to pay for which means you essentially would have paid for it anyway. Or he could at least easily afford to make his loan payments since he'd have the extra money to buy a house or pay for other living expenses. I would think the only way you could really avoid subsidizing a degree you disapproved of is to not give him the money at all.


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## Tjej (Jan 22, 2009)

Another aspect of parents paying for college- my brothers both found the expectations of parents that came along with money to be burdensome. My one brother dropped out and my other brother chose to pay for a lot of it himself, just to not have my parents know what their grades were. I, on the other hand, was more than happy to have my schooling paid for and share my grades. And we were/are all quite capable, so it wasn't an inability thing.

So even if you save for your kids, they might not want it!


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## grahamsmom98 (May 15, 2002)

Quote:


> If there are no conditions then that would leave the door open to him paying off student loans he may have taken out to pay for the degree you didn't want to pay for which means you essentially would have paid for it anyway. Or he could at least afford to make his loan payments since he'd have the extra money. I would think the only way you could really avoid subsidizing a degree you disapproved of is to not give him the money at all.


You make a good point. If he goes that route, maybe we'll hold off with handing over the cash until he's 45 or we're dead and then he get's it all....

Honestly, he has no interest in the fields we've discussed (no, they don't involve porn, pottery, astrology or in-line skating!). The degrees would probably surprise you.

Anyway, I really don't see this as ever a sticking point in our family.


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## baileyb (Dec 22, 2010)

Whoa, this thread is longer than I thought it was.

Hi Imakcerka. We keep crossing paths lately.

We had a college savings type account for DD but it was with the stipulation that if she didn't use it for college then she would get taxed the crap out of it if she wanted to use that money. I thought that was a dumb idea because who knows how what price an education will be, etc., in 17 years. Plus, we are going to unschool so I don't know if she will be interested in going from unschooling to a sit-down lecture style education. We decided to put her money in a different kind of savings account that is very similar to that Gerber Grow-up plan, except not the Gerber one, and it is also a life insurance policy. We will def. not come even close to paying for even half of a 4 year education but it will be a start no matter what she chooses. We are also on a limited budget so we are going to be happy to be paying our bills and maybe paying ahead on some things and that would take priority over college savings.

If I can add one thing that is slightly off subject...To those that are saying that their children *know* that they are expected to go to college, I would say, please don't do that. I know you want the very best for them but my parents did that and you have no idea what that does mentally if they were to decide not to go or don't know what they want to do straight out of high school. They may feel like failures if they don't go or have trouble deciding what to do and may end up in school for a long time (and end up crushed by debt) trying to become something that *you* can be proud of. Just be happy that they are happy and healthy.









Grahamsmom! You guys are rockstars!! That's great you can do that!

I only had time to read the first page of this thread so I apologize if I missed some stuff.


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## canadianhippie (Jul 1, 2010)

See, I guess it depends on your bank or which account you choose, but how could you NOT put money away?

Why wouldn't you want money to be no option when considering university?

Starting a college fund was one of the top priorities when I knew I was pregnant, My son had his RESP set up before he was a year old.

Here, you get a grant when you start up, any money he receives from our family goes directly into that account, he's 2 and has a semester of college saved already

I have no idea, to be honest, how student loans work in the US, I just know Canada, and Im on student loans now! Since I have a child, and am single, I get a few thousand in grants and the rest in loans.

Luckily, Ive been able to live at home most of the time and can save my loan money so I am not in debt after

My goal is to have as much as I can saved for my son's education, and any future children I have will have a RESP


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BaileyB*
> 
> If I can add one thing that is slightly off subject...To those that are saying that their children *know* that they are expected to go to college, I would say, please don't do that. I know you want the very best for them but my parents did that and you have no idea what that does mentally if they were to decide not to go or don't know what they want to do straight out of high school. They may feel like failures if they don't go or have trouble deciding what to do and may end up in school for a long time (and end up crushed by debt) trying to become something that *you* can be proud of.


This is kind of how I feel about it. DH is doing very well for himself, and supporting a six person family in a high COL area, where most families are two income. He makes somewhat over the median household income for our area, which includes many two income families. But, he didn't finish his degree, and it eats at him, and he feels like a failure. It bugs his parents a lot. They don't mention it as much as they used to, but I still sometimes get the feeling that being a good husband (including in the old-fashioned "good provider" sense), good father, and good stepfather doesn't count for anything in their eyes, because he didn't finish a degree. DH doesn't talk about it much, but I know he feels the same way. Most parents who expect university do seem to have their children's best interests in mind, but the expectation itself can really put an immense amount of pressure on someone who isn't ready, doesn't know what they want to study (if anything), etc. I don't ever want my children feeling as if they're disappointments to me, over their own life choices.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *canadianhippie*
> 
> See, I guess it depends on your bank or which account you choose, but how could you NOT put money away?
> 
> Why wouldn't you want money to be no option when considering university?


Well, I managed to put a whopping $19.50/month away for my oldest. It hurt. There were months when I cursed that money coming out of my grocery funds. So...yeah - it can be really easy to not put money away, depending on your financial situation.

I don't really understand your second question, as phrased. But, money is a factor when considering post-secondary. The fact that some parents can afford to pay the whole thing doesn't mean it's not a factor - it just means it's not a factor for the student. And, frankly - I think it's very good for my son to have to look at every penny and figure out what he can actually afford and what he can't. His post-secondary education is his baby, not mine. We help by providing a free roof and food (which is a lot). We help him figure out paperwork. I'm not leaving him high and dry - but I'm also not going to screw over my whole family in the here and now to pay for schooling they might want in the future. DH makes a good living, but there are six of us, and it's expensive to live here. We don't live in a super frugal fashion (esp. by, say, the MDC F&F forum), but we're not living a lavish lifestyle, either. The balance is about right fior us at the moment, and I'm not throwing everything out of whack to pay for an education my kids may or may not want in the future. (Once our van is paid off, we'll probably put some away, because it's really important to dh to do that.)


----------



## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *canadianhippie*
> 
> See, I guess it depends on your bank or which account you choose, but how could you NOT put money away?


By choosing to eat instead.









I can afford to put some away for my kids education, but my parents really could not. We always ate and had shelter - but could not afford any extras.

I do want to be able to support my kids while they are in university - mostly because I know how hard it is to start out life deep in student loan debt - but I do not feel I have to in order to be a good parent. I put it under "nice" and "do it if you can" but not under essential.


----------



## cristeen (Jan 20, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> Saying you have no intentions of paying for their schooling while simultaneously saying you expect them to get a degree seems a little odd, to me.
> 
> If you genuinely have an expectation that they should go to college or uni, then you should make a plan to help pay for it.


Actually, if you read what I said, I said that "We have no intention of paying for their schooling though - if we can we will, but they will not know that until after the fact." We will however be in the position to cover room/board if they go to any number of local colleges (including excellent colleges like Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCSF, etc.). If we are in the financial position to help them pay off their loans after graduation, we will. However, we cannot anticipate right now what our finances will look like in 20+ years, since right now we're still accumulating student loan debt of our own. Regardless we are planning to raise them with the expectation that they are going to have to work for it. Even if I had it to give them, I'm not going to hand them $100K and tell them to have fun at college, I don't believe in a free ride. They can work their way through college, and we can help them in whatever way(s) we can.

I can't help if you find that odd, it's what we believe to be best for our children.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BaileyB*
> If I can add one thing that is slightly off subject...To those that are saying that their children *know* that they are expected to go to college, I would say, please don't do that. I know you want the very best for them but my parents did that and you have no idea what that does mentally if they were to decide not to go or don't know what they want to do straight out of high school. They may feel like failures if they don't go or have trouble deciding what to do and may end up in school for a long time (and end up crushed by debt) trying to become something that *you* can be proud of. Just be happy that they are happy and healthy.


I was raised with this expectation, so I do know how it feels. There are many a day when I feel like a failure for the fact that I don't have a degree, just like I feel like one for choosing to SAHM. I have been exploring going back to school for a degree lately for exactly this reason, even though my "dream job" doesn't require one. But the fact is that following my dreams is going to be expensive. And if anything were to happen to DH (the breadwinner), I'd be up a creek without a paddle just trying to support myself and 2 kids in our current home, because I don't have a degree. Around here it seems the best I can do right now is about $12/hr, because even to answer phones, everyone wants a Bachelors. I couldn't pay the mortgage and buy groceries on that kind of income, much less pay for childcare. I don't want my children to be in this position when they're my age (or DH's age). I will have the expectation that they will get a degree or a vocation. But I will also talk to them a lot about the difference between a job to pay the bills/support self and family, and a dream, and that one can be a means to the other, they don't actually have to be the same thing. Because that's the trap *I* fell into.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *canadianhippie*
> 
> See, I guess it depends on your bank or which account you choose, but how could you NOT put money away?
> 
> I have no idea, to be honest, how student loans work in the US, I just know Canada, and Im on student loans now! Since I have a child, and am single, I get a few thousand in grants and the rest in loans.


How not? Because I'm more concerned with paying the mortgage, saving a bit for retirement, keeping the house standing around us, keeping food on the table, etc. Saving for college is low man on the totem pole at this point. My kids will be able to get scholarships, grants, loans, etc., to pay for school when they reach that point. I cannot get loans for any of the above things.

I'm curious how much college costs in Canada right now. We seem to have several Canadian moms who are stumped at the attitudes some of us US moms are taking, so I'm wondering if we can compare some dollar figures. What does a 4 year degree cost in Canada from a public school? Private school? Do you have both public and private schools, I don't even know...?


----------



## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AbbyGrant*
> 
> Except she said they'd pay for whatever college just not certain subjects. This has led me to googling "unusual" and "controversial" college majors instead of going to the grocery store like I'm supposed to be doing .
> 
> ...


Hmmm... that could be an interesting course.


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjej*
> 
> Nice. My DS told me the other day tha the wants to be a police officer - because he likes killing... I told him being a hunter would be a better fit then...


This reminds me of my best friend's now 8 year old saying he wanted to be a cop when he was around 5. Why? So he could eat donuts and take a nap in his car every day.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BaileyB*
> 
> If I can add one thing that is slightly off subject...To those that are saying that their children *know* that they are expected to go to college, I would say, please don't do that. I know you want the very best for them but my parents did that and you have no idea what that does mentally if they were to decide not to go or don't know what they want to do straight out of high school. They may feel like failures if they don't go or have trouble deciding what to do and may end up in school for a long time (and end up crushed by debt) trying to become something that *you* can be proud of. Just be happy that they are happy and healthy.


I don't consider this to be off topic at all. What we are trying to make is that getting a college education is the default. That they will *probably* have a career that is dependent upon a university education. If they have a different plan, we have also emphasized that is fine *but you need to have a plan.* We've also talked about the idea of a "gap year", of traveling or interning, trying out different things for a year or two after high school and then, when they're more sure going to college. Given their interests and skills so far (and they are only 10 & 13, but that is not the same as making assumptions about an infant or toddler, imo) their goals will be best met with a college degree (DS, for example has expressed interest in being an electrical engineer for years).


----------



## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Eh, cause I found a way to pay for college that didn't touch my parents bank account... not that they even had the money. And I don't have my degree... but um... I'm doing quite well right now. Though I finally turned in all my paperwork and will be starting AMU in the summer. YAY ME! Oh and to clear that up, I'll be using my post 9/11 GI bill.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *canadianhippie*
> 
> See, I guess it depends on your bank or which account you choose, but how could you NOT put money away?
> 
> ...


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cristeen*
> 
> I'm curious how much college costs in Canada right now. We seem to have several Canadian moms who are stumped at the attitudes some of us US moms are taking, so I'm wondering if we can compare some dollar figures. What does a 4 year degree cost in Canada from a public school? Private school? Do you have both public and private schools, I don't even know...?


I don't actually know. But, it's not just about the cost of education. It's about the cultural imperative to get a post-secondary education in the first place. I'm not saying they're not valued in Canada, but they're not, ime, expected to the same degree that they are in the US. I think you've actually got a nasty cycle going on there, to tell the truth. Everybody has to get a degree, no matter what it costs, so everyone gets a degree, no matter what it costs, so everybody has to have a degree, no matter what it costs. I can't even conceive of being unable to get a job answering phones without a Bachelors degree. We're heading that way, but we're not there yet. I find it extremely bizarre, and insanely counterproductive. And, having answered phones as a big part of my job for many years, it honestly blows my mind that anyone would require a degree for the job.


----------



## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

DH and I hope to be able to pay for a large chunk of whatever our kids want to do after high school, either trade school or college. DH had almost no parental help, but had a ton of grants and scholarships so he graduated with a few loans, but nothing obscene. He would have gone to college come hell or high water. I, on the other hand, had my parents pay for all of college and I doubt I would have gone if they hadn't. I'm glad I did go now, even if I'm staying at home. College isn't going to be seen as the only option here, but some education after high school will be very very very strongly encouraged. Both kids have college accounts right now (they're 3 and 1) and by the time they hit high school, at the latest, our mortgage will be paid off and we can throw that much at their college funds a month. There's just no way I want to see my kids work 3 jobs and hardly sleep like DH had to do for a few semesters.


----------



## cristeen (Jan 20, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I don't actually know. But, it's not just about the cost of education. It's about the cultural imperative to get a post-secondary education in the first place. I'm not saying they're not valued in Canada, but they're not, ime, expected to the same degree that they are in the US. I think you've actually got a nasty cycle going on there, to tell the truth. Everybody has to get a degree, no matter what it costs, so everyone gets a degree, no matter what it costs, so everybody has to have a degree, no matter what it costs. I can't even conceive of being unable to get a job answering phones without a Bachelors degree. We're heading that way, but we're not there yet. I find it extremely bizarre, and insanely counterproductive. And, having answered phones as a big part of my job for many years, it honestly blows my mind that anyone would require a degree for the job.


Oh, I absolutely agree. It is completely ridiculous. Particularly since I've spent years answering phones, have plenty of experience doing it, and yet still can't get even a call back because I don't have a Bachelors. It's gotten particularly bad in this economic climate, although luckily I'm not actually looking any more. I was at the point (before I got pg with DS) that if I wanted a job I had to go through a temp agency for a placement so I could prove myself before being hired. Without a degree nobody would even interview me. And even most retail jobs wouldn't touch me because I had too much office experience, and was therefore "over-qualified". It's a really crappy double-standard spot to be in.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

Cristeen&#8230;..fwiw&#8230;.

The 2 universities near me have fees and tuition of about $3000 a semester (most people take 2 semesters a year) for a full time undergraduate Bachelor of Arts type degree. It is a little higher in other disciplines.

This excludes any residence fees, meal plans, books, etc.

According to google, almost all universities in Canada are public.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cristeen*
> 
> Oh, I absolutely agree. It is completely ridiculous. Particularly since I've spent years answering phones, have plenty of experience doing it, and yet still can't get even a call back because I don't have a Bachelors. It's gotten particularly bad in this economic climate, although luckily I'm not actually looking any more. I was at the point (before I got pg with DS) that if I wanted a job I *had to go through a temp agency for a placement so I could prove myself before being hired. * Without a degree nobody would even interview me. And even most retail jobs wouldn't touch me because I had too much office experience, and was therefore "over-qualified". It's a really crappy double-standard spot to be in.


See, I tried that. I can't even get into the temp agency. Maybe I was trying the wrong ones. With Kelly Services I uploaded a resume, applied for 2 jobs on their job board and never heard a single word from anyone, either with Kelly or any employers. They don't have you come in and interview with a human. What was the point of 'joining'?

God I feel so old.














25 years ago I put on my nice dress, went to the temp agency down the road, talked to a nice young lady and signed up. They called a couple of days later and I got a job alphabetizing dusty old files for an insurance company. In about a year I was hired on permanently, worked there eleven years. Did call center customer service for the last 5 years.

Ugh.


----------



## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *canadianhippie*
> 
> See, I guess it depends on your bank or which account you choose, but how could you NOT put money away?
> 
> Why wouldn't you want money to be no option when considering university?


Maybe you aren't aware of this, so I'll just share with you that many, many, many people struggle to provide food and shelter for their families and are unable to provide more than the basic necessities.


----------



## RiverTam (May 29, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mulvah*
> 
> Maybe you aren't aware of this, so I'll just share with you that many, many, many people struggle to provide food and shelter for their families and are unable to provide more than the basic necessities.


Yes. Most financial planners tell you to pay your bills first and then pay your retirement savings and then, if you have the money, pay for your kids' college. (Kids can borrow money to go to college. You can't borrow money to pay for retirement.)

We're lucky enough to have the breathing room to save for college at our house, but not everyone is so lucky.


----------



## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

Most financial planners tell you to pay your bills first and then pay your retirement savings and then, if you have the money, pay for your kids' college. (Kids can borrow money to go to college. You can't borrow money to pay for retirement.

Hey, we went to the same financial planner!









We ignored him, though. Our kids have 529s and we and DH's parents contribute to them as much as possible. We want to be able to make a lifestyle change when our kids fly the coop, and not having college bills is a part of that far-off dream of freedom. Also, we didn't have much college debt when we started our adult lives, and we want to pay that forward.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

I like the treating college like tying your shoes that is what I do as well. For the record, DH has zero college, never went a day in his life. He has done very well for himself. I know that is very rare, and not going to college has hurt him. He could be doing better with a business degree. His clients sometimes research him before signing contracts and it has come out numerous times that they realized he does not have a degree. Sometimes they are impressed, other times not so much. I do have the degree and yet could only make a fraction of what he does.







In my area we joke that you need a history, english or BA to wait tables and really, that isn't far from the truth. No degree and working at McD's is more a reality. In my dept at work, while we have no degree requirement for our entry level job that pays $12.00 an hour, we rarely hire anyone that doesn't have a 4 year degree. I've had some with a masters working for that. When you get 30+ applicants for the job and most have degrees, that is what you tend to hire.


----------



## cristeen (Jan 20, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> Cristeen&#8230;..fwiw&#8230;.
> 
> ...


The local community colleges are $36/unit right now for CA residents, they do not offer Bachelor's degrees (ETA - guess I should say FT is considered 12+ units)

CSU system (public school) is currently $5,472/year for CA residents, out of state students pay more

UC Berkeley (public school) is over $7K/semester (2 semesters per year not counting summer) for CA residents, out of state students pay more

Stanford (private school) is over $13K/quarter (3 quarters per year not counting summer)

Mills (private school) is over $38K/year

None of those prices include the various campus/school fees, room/board, class fees or books. And these numbers have increased dramatically in the last 15 years. When I was at community college, it was $9/unit, 1/4 of what it is now. What's it going to be in another 15 years when my kids are contemplating those classes?


----------



## cat13 (Dec 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cristeen*
> 
> The local community colleges are $36/unit right now for CA residents, they do not offer Bachelor's degrees
> 
> ...


Thanks for pulling those numbers together, I had no idea how much they raised the cost! I paid less than $2000/yr for a CSU education in 1999. Big increase!

ETA for typos


----------



## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

And they wonder why so many people do not have degrees... Holy cow the costs are unreal! All this is making me sick. While I want my kids to have a decent start in life and I want them to have the upper hand (degrees help) I cannot fathom paying that kind of money. Hopefully they will be able to get scholarships (fingers crossed on the VA). And sometimes I kick myself thinking I could have transferred all my benefits if I just stuck it out in the military 9 more years. Oh what a lifetime that would have been... Then again I'd only have 6 yrs left...


----------



## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

Tuition has been steadily increasing in my state for years although I didn't realize how bad it was until I looked yesterday. It was really discouraging to see how much tuition had gone up on the community college and college level since I went. Next year it's going to cost nearly $8000 (up 10% from this year) for in-state tuition and fees at the state university I went to as compared to about $2200 when I started in the late 90s.

I found a chart comparing 1998/99 tuition to 2008/09 tuition costs at the school as well as the median household income in our state for the same years. The tuition increased 139% while median household income increased 17%. I was kind of thinking maybe I'd try to start saving, but at this rate, I'm not sure what difference it would make.

No wonder there've been student demonstrations on the news. 10% increase in one year?


----------



## baileyb (Dec 22, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> For the first 15 years we were parents, we lived on one income, my DH's, and I focused on raising the kids and running our home. I recently returned to work full time mostly to pay for our kids education. Our goal is state university and no debt. For us, this is attainable. Even though we weren't able to save for their college up til now, we never got used to living on 2 incomes.


I like this idea! We live on one income as well.


----------



## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AbbyGrant*
> 
> Tuition has been steadily increasing in my state for years although I didn't realize how bad it was until I looked yesterday. It was really discouraging to see how much tuition had gone up on the community college and college level since I went. Next year it's going to cost nearly $8000 (up 10% from this year) for in-state tuition and fees at the state university I went to as compared to about $2200 when I started in the late 90s.
> 
> ...


I know the following sounds absurd but I'd thought I'd relay: I went to a state university in the early '80s. The tuition per semester at that time for in-state residents was $490. This thread peeked my interest and I looked up current tuition for same in-state students: approx. $5.5k per semester (almost $11k per year not including books, fees, living expenses). I totally understand the backlash against high higher education costs...even in my current city, the costs of state schools are outrageous compared to what students paid even ten years ago.

One of my theories is that the availability of student loans have encouraged higher institutions to raise their tuitions and fees. Thus, students can "afford" their educations via loans. This in turn creates the incredibly negative cycle of reducing scholarship opportunities because kids have the opportunity to get degrees through loans and then are confronted with payback upon graduation even though the economy doesn't support their educated status. I have my own, very personal, and political feelings about this whole mess...but I won't go into it here. I'm not a conspiracy person by nature, but I think there is a very real and underlying problem here that isn't based on normal inflation. My two cents. Apply it to your college fund.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cristeen*
> 
> What's it going to be in another 15 years when my kids are contemplating those classes?


There's really no telling. Education, in general, is going through a lot of changes. More families are homeschooling at the lower levels. More online resources are becoming available. More people can't afford any post-secondary education, and/or are being crushed by student loan debt. I don't think any of this is sustainable, and the system is going to change. Your kids may be facing insanely expensive educations...or they may be facing something we can't even properly visualize at this time.


----------



## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> One of my theories is that the availability of student loans have encouraged higher institutions to raise their tuitions and fees. Thus, students can "afford" their educations via loans.


Well, in our state it has to do with the massive decrease in state funding for the university system. Similar things have happened in CA. The state used to pay well over half the cost to fund the universities. For my university, it's now down to about 25%. Guess who gets to make that up? IMO, student loans have had to increase because no one can reasonably earn enough money to pay tuition by working part time.


----------



## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

My kid is in college now. She started with almost a full year's worth of credit from community college classes (about $80 a credit) and state university classes (about $200 a credit). I paid for all of that out of pocket, except her senior year she got a 50% scholarship at the state university.

She now attends a private 4 year university in another state, and nearly all of it is paid for by scholarships and grants (and other schools offered her similar deals, although this was the best). She took out about $3000 in loans, and I paid a few thousand (I got an adjunct job last semester that covered a lot of it). She also has a work study job. Basically all we're asked to pay out of pocket is her food.

We're really poor, and she's pretty bright and had an interesting story to tell. All those turned out to be good things. I never told her she had to go to college, but she wanted to, and it's probably the best place for her to learn about all of the things she wants to learn about right now.

I did my undergrad degree as a young single mom, on a full scholarship.


----------



## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

just a thought on scholarships. esp. those going to college on scholarship.

i see this with students around me. not all of them of course.

coz if you are not committed and you are not a high achiever going to college on a scholarship is TOUGH.

i have seen kids around me. it is terrible how much stress a scholarship puts on them.

and how many classes they have to take and the grades they need to make.

sometimes i wonder - for those students - if a scholarship is really worth all the stress they have in their life.


----------



## Cyllya (Jun 10, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BaileyB*
> 
> If I can add one thing that is slightly off subject...To those that are saying that their children *know* that they are expected to go to college, I would say, please don't do that. I know you want the very best for them but my parents did that and you have no idea what that does mentally if they were to decide not to go or don't know what they want to do straight out of high school. They may feel like failures if they don't go or have trouble deciding what to do and may end up in school for a long time (and end up crushed by debt) trying to become something that *you* can be proud of. Just be happy that they are happy and healthy.


Yeah, no kidding. When I was a kid I *knew* I'd go to college, because my parents and teachers had this attitude. I have yet to recover, or forgive.

I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, so I found a college that looked good (to my naive 17-year-old self), applied, prayed, got accepted, got good grades, and got a Bachelor's degree. I had job skills for a brief period after graduating, but within a year I either forgot them or they became obsolete. I have a buttload of debt and I work at a minimum wage job that I don't like, because it's the only job I can do. If it weren't for my fiance and my mom paying some of my bills, I wouldn't be able to survive right now. During my last few job searches, I actually got more responses when I left my college education off my resume.

I don't want to do that to my kids. I'm going to tell them, "Plan first, and only go to college if your dreams require it." (Or if you're wealthy enough to go to college for the fun of it, I guess.) If they're gonna be up the creek without a paddle, better that they be there without student loans at least.

Quote:


> DS wants to be a video game tester... he already kind of is! Can you get paid for that?


Yes, that was my fiance's job until recently. It's not as fun-and-games as it seems in the movies (most jobs aren't), but it's apparently still pretty enjoyable as far as jobs go, depending on what type of tester you are. Although, as with most of the video game industry, there is *tons* of overtime.

For the record, THQ in Phoenix AZ pays $10.50 per hour for full-time testers and $9.50 per hour if you're a temp worker. But you could become a supervisor or team lead and get paid more, or you could use it as a foot in the door for being a game producer, artist, etc.


----------



## Mummoth (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyllya*
> 
> Yes, that was my fiance's job until recently. It's not as fun-and-games as it seems in the movies (most jobs aren't), but it's apparently still pretty enjoyable as far as jobs go, depending on what type of tester you are. Although, as with most of the video game industry, there is *tons* of overtime.
> 
> For the record, THQ in Phoenix AZ pays $10.50 per hour for full-time testers and $9.50 per hour if you're a temp worker. But you could become a supervisor or team lead and get paid more, or you could use it as a foot in the door for being a game producer, artist, etc.


Thanks for the information. I assumed it probably wouldn't be a high paying job, because there's probably a ton of people who want to do it. My sister looked into becoming a helicopter pilot and the starting wage for that is around $12 or $15/hour here, which seems insane to me.

I'm sort of sorry I gave a serious answer in this thread because now every time I read "How are your kids going to go to college?" I think "On the bus."


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Yes, that was my fiance's job until recently. It's not as fun-and-games as it seems in the movies (most jobs aren't), but it's apparently still pretty enjoyable as far as jobs go, depending on what type of tester you are. Although, as with most of the video game industry, there is *tons* of overtime.
> 
> For the record, THQ in Phoenix AZ pays $10.50 per hour for full-time testers and $9.50 per hour if you're a temp worker. But you could become a supervisor or team lead and get paid more, or you could use it as a foot in the door for being a game producer, artist, etc.


Our friend who is a contracted tester for games through a large software company makes low six-figures. *Very* different than most kids are picturing when you talk about testing video games, though (quality control versus "fun"). Entry level tester would definately make over $50K. Virtually all have degrees, most in computer science.


----------



## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

There seems to be a lot of variety in pay scale for video game tester. I have a cousin who does it and I would be very surprised if he earned more than 15$ an hour - no where near $50 000.


----------



## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> Well, in our state it has to do with the massive decrease in state funding for the university system. Similar things have happened in CA.


That's part of the increase in tuition here as well at public universities. But the tuition at private universities is skyrocketing as well, far more than inflation can explain. For example, there's a very prestigious private university in the area that's over $40,000 a year now for tuition which is about double what it was when I started school in the late 90s. It's gone up about $16,000 just in the last decade.


----------



## canadianhippie (Jul 1, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Well, I managed to put a whopping $19.50/month away for my oldest. It hurt. There were months when I cursed that money coming out of my grocery funds. So...yeah - it can be really easy to not put money away, depending on your financial situation.
> 
> I don't really understand your second question, as phrased. But, money is a factor when considering post-secondary. The fact that some parents can afford to pay the whole thing doesn't mean it's not a factor - it just means it's not a factor for the student. And, frankly - I think it's very good for my son to have to look at every penny and figure out what he can actually afford and what he can't. His post-secondary education is his baby, not mine. We help by providing a free roof and food (which is a lot). We help him figure out paperwork. I'm not leaving him high and dry - but I'm also not going to screw over my whole family in the here and now to pay for schooling they might want in the future. DH makes a good living, but there are six of us, and it's expensive to live here. We don't live in a super frugal fashion (esp. by, say, the MDC F&F forum), but we're not living a lavish lifestyle, either. The balance is about right fior us at the moment, and I'm not throwing everything out of whack to pay for an education my kids may or may not want in the future. (Once our van is paid off, we'll probably put some away, because it's really important to dh to do that.)


I definetly do not put away money each month, I may go 6 months without putting in a dime. The point is that the account is open, there is money in it and its a start.

I believe in the next 16 years, no matter my financial situation, the money will continue to accumulate, I do want to pay for my children's post secondary, and thats the fundamental difference between me and you. You feel you rather have your children budget accordingly and choose wisely what school they should attend, which is fine, I want him to just choose and not worry about the large amount of debt he could face after school, the education is the utmost important thing here, not the money, I dont want money to be any part of his experience, I would love for him to graduate debt free, and right now, thats the biggest goal for me

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> By choosing to eat instead.
> 
> ...


Why would you not make a start? Your in Canada, you'll have i think its $500? put in as soon as you open it....bam, it's started

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cristeen*
> 
> Actually, if you read what I said, I said that "We have no intention of paying for their schooling though - if we can we will, but they will not know that until after the fact." We will however be in the position to cover room/board if they go to any number of local colleges (including excellent colleges like Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCSF, etc.). If we are in the financial position to help them pay off their loans after graduation, we will. However, we cannot anticipate right now what our finances will look like in 20+ years, since right now we're still accumulating student loan debt of our own. Regardless we are planning to raise them with the expectation that they are going to have to work for it. Even if I had it to give them, I'm not going to hand them $100K and tell them to have fun at college, I don't believe in a free ride. They can work their way through college, and we can help them in whatever way(s) we can.
> 
> ...


The US is more expensive for schooling, and i believe to my understanding, there isnt the same loans as here either. A average semester of college is say $1700, a average semester of university is $3000

you mean private colleges? yes, but they normally arent "accredited" and focus on the arts and at a high cost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I don't actually know. But, it's not just about the cost of education. It's about the cultural imperative to get a post-secondary education in the first place. I'm not saying they're not valued in Canada, but they're not, ime, expected to the same degree that they are in the US. I think you've actually got a nasty cycle going on there, to tell the truth. Everybody has to get a degree, no matter what it costs, so everyone gets a degree, no matter what it costs, so everybody has to have a degree, no matter what it costs. I can't even conceive of being unable to get a job answering phones without a Bachelors degree. We're heading that way, but we're not there yet. I find it extremely bizarre, and insanely counterproductive. And, having answered phones as a big part of my job for many years, it honestly blows my mind that anyone would require a degree for the job.


I disagree, I think in Canada it is mandatory to have a degree or diploma in order to sustain a life-long career now, or at least get over the $20 an hour hurdle. Without post secondary, your left with retail, restaurant and calling centres as you said, everything else requires years of ladder climbing or schooling.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mulvah*
> 
> Maybe you aren't aware of this, so I'll just share with you that many, many, many people struggle to provide food and shelter for their families and are unable to provide more than the basic necessities.


Well, thats was rude and very insulting


----------



## MrsGregory (Dec 21, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
> 
> You might even need to revise that downwards, lol. DS is in 4th grade and a project his class is working on is planning their education based on a career goal. So, they have to identify a career choice they are interested in, determine what degree they would need to get, research one state school and one out of state school they could get the education (including cost of that education), identify any other things they should be doing on the way to that (including what high school classes they would need to take, what activities, etc...). Oh, and then make a powerpoint presentation with the information. They are doing this all in class, so I'm really interested to see what info they'll come up with.


4th grade?!?!?!? I have to be ready to deal with this topic while she's in grade school??????










If anyone needs me, I'll be under my desk, with a bottle of bourbon, rocking back and forth and softly crying.

Seriously, thank you, *TiredX2*, for the heads-up.

With regards to the rising costs and how to cope: I did not attend college. I commanded the same salary (sometimes more, which makes me sad) as many of my college-educated friends without the burden of student loans. I like the idea I believe *Linda on the move* described. We are already budgeted and accustomed to one income, and have been since before I left the workforce. This was our way of planning for a rainy day. My salary was always gravy. So, granted, our potatoes are now somewhat drier, but when I head back to the workforce it will be found money. Perhaps for a year or two we can just set the whole amount aside and send our children to a nice, solid state school. I sincerely hope the value of a college education versus the cost has somewhat equalized at that time. As I see it, right now, pick the wrong field of study (and it's so easy to pick the wrong field of study, it seems) and you just burned many thousands of dollars. I'm admittedly lacking experience with ongoing education, but that is my view, for better or for worse.

And I do, wholeheartedly, intend to see to my own retirement before seeing to her education.


----------



## Buzzer Beater (Mar 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AbbyGrant*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> That's part of the increase in tuition here as well at public universities. But the tuition at private universities is skyrocketing as well, far more than inflation can explain. For example, there's a very prestigious private university in the area that's over $40,000 a year now for tuition which is about double what it was when I started school in the late 90s. It's gone up about $16,000 just in the last decade.


I think the tuition at private schools is crazy, considering the endowments some of them have. However, they do make great efforts to see that qualified kids get to attend. Dd's school is about 40k, but she has 10k in dean's scholarships, 4k in one kind of aid and 5k for something else that came through last minute when we weren't sure if we could get it together. She earns 8k as an RA and does work study. She also got Pell grants her first two years (PP had said you have to be under 50k salary to get those but we are way over and she got them). We priced out what it would cost her at the university here where dh is a professor. Even with half off as an employee dependent it was about the same cost and we believe she has a better education for her field at the private school.

And yay! She's far enough away she can't come home every weekend.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *canadianhippie*
> 
> I disagree, I think in Canada it is mandatory to have a degree or diploma in order to sustain a life-long career now, or at least get over the $20 an hour hurdle. Without post secondary, your left with retail, restaurant and calling centres as you said, everything else requires years of ladder climbing or schooling.


There are people from the US here talking about needing a degree to get entry level positions. Yes - you probably need a degree to sustain a life-long career in most fields, even in Canada. But, that's not what I was talking about (I don't think in terms of a career - never have, because I've never wanted one). You don't, ime, need a degree to get a crappy entry level job. I have yet to meet anyone who needed a degree to get a job answering phones.


----------



## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> There are people from the US here talking about needing a degree to get entry level positions. Yes - you probably need a degree to sustain a life-long career in most fields, even in Canada. But, that's not what I was talking about (I don't think in terms of a career - never have, because I've never wanted one). You don't, ime, need a degree to get a crappy entry level job. *I have yet to meet anyone who needed a degree to get a job answering phones.*


I agree. Just an example, there are literally hundreds of entry-level Office Technician and Office Assistant jobs at the State of California that do not require a degree of any sort -I get several email alerts a week for these jobs from the State's job board. Same with customer service call center jobs with medical offices and medical insurance companies, I've applied for more than a dozen of these jobs. They do not require any degree, even an Associates. That's why I bother to apply!

But it's important to note that while a degree isn't on the list of Requirements, it is on the list of Preferences, and of course the robo resume filter programs pick resumes with degrees over resumes without. And the job market is flooded with people with post-secondary degrees trying to get a job, any job. Just as an aside, and this is the subject for another thread, it's maddening how a person can't even get past the resume-submission stage to the face-to-face interview. You're not a person, you're a resume.

I completely agree with you, we've gotten ourselves into a pickle with this post-secondary education push here in the US.


----------



## cristeen (Jan 20, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> There seems to be a lot of variety in pay scale for video game tester. I have a cousin who does it and I would be very surprised if he earned more than 15$ an hour - no where near $50 000.


There's a HUGE difference between "Video Game Tester" and "Quality Assurance Tech". We had a friend who was doing the former making maybe $12/hr. DH does the latter. They both involve testing software, but one requires knowledge of things like programming languages, and back ends and the other just requires an enjoyment of playing games. However, for someone not in the field, they can seem very similar... "what does your DH do?" "He tests software." That doesn't indicate which of the above he might be. But I can assure you, he's making far more than $12/hr.


----------



## cristeen (Jan 20, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *canadianhippie*
> 
> The US is more expensive for schooling, and i believe to my understanding, there isnt the same loans as here either. A average semester of college is say $1700, a average semester of university is $3000


If that's all we were looking at, I'd be planning on paying for it, too. Like the numbers I posted yesterday show though, that's nothing near what we can expect, even with the local schools. If we have to worry about room/board on top of that. Ugh.


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## Mummoth (Oct 30, 2003)

I think a lot of people forget that there are kinds of education that don't involve going to school. My DH worked as a school bus driver and is now the yard manager at the bus company. He has a high school education and a class 2 license (the bus company actually paid for his training to get the license, too) It's not as well-paying as some jobs that require a college education, but it has extended health and our bills are paid each month. I do after school care, when I got started it was daycare and all I needed for that was a few good references and a first aid certificate. I don't need a vehicle, work clothes or to pay for childcare for my own kids, and I'd have to have a pretty well paying job to still make what I do after those expenses.

I plan on making sure my kids each have their drivers license, a first aid certificate and things like Food Safe and WHMIS by the time they graduate high school. Those sort of things are what save you if you hit a road block in your career pursuits. I definitely want the kids to have a college education, but they need to have a fall-back, too. The job market changes and it's different all over... in Calgary DH said if one job didn't work out you could get another one the next day, here he put in over 1000 resumes and got 4 or 5 interviews.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journeymom*
> 
> I agree. Just an example, there are literally hundreds of entry-level Office Technician and Office Assistant jobs at the State of California that do not require a degree of any sort -I get several email alerts a week for these jobs from the State's job board. Same with customer service call center jobs with medical offices and medical insurance companies, I've applied for more than a dozen of these jobs. They do not require any degree, even an Associates. That's why I bother to apply!
> 
> ...


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mummoth*
> 
> I think a lot of people forget that there are kinds of education that don't involve going to school. My DH worked as a school bus driver and is now the yard manager at the bus company. He has a high school education and a class 2 license (the bus company actually paid for his training to get the license, too) It's not as well-paying as some jobs that require a college education, but it has extended health and our bills are paid each month. I do after school care, when I got started it was daycare and all I needed for that was a few good references and a first aid certificate. I don't need a vehicle, work clothes or to pay for childcare for my own kids, and I'd have to have a pretty well paying job to still make what I do after those expenses.
> 
> I plan on making sure my kids each have their drivers license, a first aid certificate and things like Food Safe and WHMIS by the time they graduate high school. Those sort of things are what save you if you hit a road block in your career pursuits. I definitely want the kids to have a college education, but they need to have a fall-back, too. The job market changes and it's different all over... in Calgary DH said if one job didn't work out you could get another one the next day, here he put in over 1000 resumes and got 4 or 5 interviews.


Oops - I missed this post. This is what I mean about Canadian vs. US attitudes. (And, I'll admit I could be wrong, but I've noticed many times. My bff also moved to the US a few years ago, and has commented on it more than once.) This kind of thing just wouldn't be an acceptable option to some people I've met, and those people are all American. I'm not saying it's a universal thing in the US, but this idea that life without a degree is meaningless (yes - I'm exaggerating a little) does seem to be a widespread cultural influence in the US, and not quite so much in Canada.

Of course, I'm a misfit, either way. I was no more likely to get my driver's license as a teen than I was to go to college. That was more terror than lack of interest, but it was still true. I got my license a few months after I started posting at MDC...at 37, with my third child on the way.


----------



## Mummoth (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Oops - I missed this post. This is what I mean about Canadian vs. US attitudes. (And, I'll admit I could be wrong, but I've noticed many times. My bff also moved to the US a few years ago, and has commented on it more than once.) This kind of thing just wouldn't be an acceptable option to some people I've met, and those people are all American. I'm not saying it's a universal thing in the US, but this idea that life without a degree is meaningless (yes - I'm exaggerating a little) does seem to be a widespread cultural influence in the US, and not quite so much in Canada.
> 
> Of course, I'm a misfit, either way. I was no more likely to get my driver's license as a teen than I was to go to college. That was more terror than lack of interest, but it was still true. I got my license a few months after I started posting at MDC...at 37, with my third child on the way.


I got my license when I was 25. I'm 34 now and haven't driven for years... every once in a while I decide I'm going to get over the fear and practice for a few weeks or months, but it doesn't get better. It's so bad that I'm probably dangerous, even though I appear to be a very good driver.

My brothers-in-law have a 5th grade and 3rd grade education, and they're both able to support their families on a single income (way up north, but still) The one who dropped out in 5th grade makes over $100 grand/year... he's got his GED, but I don't think he really needed to get it. He started going to work with his dad by the time he was 12, so he had lots of relevant experience before he did it... it just looks better on the resume, I guess.

ETA: one thing I think a lot of people undervalue is happiness! DH LOVES his job, he comes home tired but happy at night. That has way, way more impact on our quality of life than more money would. He's got a 5 minute commute to work and I think that's another thing that's important to consider when choosing where to work, though I guess that's not relevant to college/no-college.


----------



## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> There seems to be a lot of variety in pay scale for video game tester. I have a cousin who does it and I would be very surprised if he earned more than 15$ an hour - no where near $50 000.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cristeen*
> 
> There's a HUGE difference between "Video Game Tester" and "Quality Assurance Tech". We had a friend who was doing the former making maybe $12/hr. DH does the latter. They both involve testing software, but one requires knowledge of things like programming languages, and back ends and the other just requires an enjoyment of playing games. However, for someone not in the field, they can seem very similar... "what does your DH do?" "He tests software." That doesn't indicate which of the above he might be. But I can assure you, he's making far more than $12/hr.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cristeen*
> 
> There's a HUGE difference between "Video Game Tester" and "Quality Assurance Tech". We had a friend who was doing the former making maybe $12/hr. DH does the latter. They both involve testing software, but one requires knowledge of things like programming languages, and back ends and the other just requires an enjoyment of playing games. However, for someone not in the field, they can seem very similar... "what does your DH do?" "He tests software." That doesn't indicate which of the above he might be. But I can assure you, he's making far more than $12/hr.


cristeen answered that for me. Someone said their son was wanted to test video games. I said there were two "career paths" to that--- one (which is probably what he is picturing) is playing games. Another is testing them for quality/acceptability/etc... The second is probably going to require a degree, one is computer science would probably be best. I don't actually know of *any* jobs in the first (because you can often get people to do that for free, lol, in beta testing *or* they just do early releases to their programming/testing employees). If a child is interested in video game testing there are a lot of career paths that can involve them in game technology *and* have a good living attached.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrsGregory*
> 
> 4th grade?!?!?!? I have to be ready to deal with this topic while she's in grade school??????
> 
> ...


I think DS' teacher is a *little* bit "forward" on this one, to be clear. DD never had to do anything like this! He had the same teacher and they had an equally, what I considered age inappropirate, assignment. But there are definately kids ready for it and it's interesting to see the kids trying to figure out how to translate their current interests into a future job.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Interesting. I'm fully against my kids taking out loans for school. If all is well for them after wards, they will have years of debt already accrued. I know there is noway that I'll ever be able to pay for all their college. As much as I save it seems like there is always something that comes up. I would feel pretty icky putting money away for college but making them wait for dental work. That's where I'm at. I do want them to go though. I just won't tell them the world will end if they don't. I do want them to understand that's a good thing if they do and I know that I can help them with the process and also with the things they need. Right now I'm wishing I didn't even think about it all since it seems so enormous and so financially hard. Around where I'm at in SA, a degree helps, but since we're becoming and IT hub certifications are required. I had three certifications that were required for my job and I have them. Now they want one more. And I'll get it. Those cost money too. I've been lucky enough that I understand it all without extra training. I've read the books and just taken the tests while others have shelled out thousands for extra training and have still failed them. LUCKY! That's how I feel. I did let my boss know that I would be going to college in the summer. He reminded me that I still need that other certification and not to put it aside like everyone else has done to attend school. A degree will get me nowhere where I'm at. My certifications will. They turned down three people these past few weeks for a position because all they had was a degree in IT security. Nice but not enough. The starting pay in my field is 65k and with all your certs you're looking at 6 figures starting. STARTING... and experience is not required. Why, because you have to be trained specifically for this job. Training you only get on the job since it's a cleared field I'm working in.

To be honest, I'd be okay with my kids joining the military. Doing four years and coming out with college paid for. Only the intelligence field though. They generally don't send intel to war, we fight from conus. Even if they were in a deployment bucket, training is so long that they literally will not have enough time for a deployment if they only do four years. My training took me 2 years. Then you still have on the job training (OJT) that could take up to 6 months. There are some that are longer. And the commitment is still 4 years active 4 inactive.


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## JollyGG (Oct 1, 2008)

All the talk of the cost of tuition motivated me to look up how much school costs now at the relatively inexpensive state school I went to. Tuition is $240 per credit hour and $120 in fees per credit hour. According to their webpage you can expect university to run 15k per year. A local private college will run you 34k per year with room and board.

My kids will probably end up using student loans for a large part of college. My husband and I have talked about paying their student loans for a set number of years after they graduate, gradually decreasing the amount we pay and increasing the amount they pay as they move into more stable and better paying jobs after graduation.


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## mamayogibear (May 8, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *queenjane* Also, my state has a program where any child who is on Medicaid for at least 18 months from sixth grade on can qualify to have the first two years (and possibly the second two as well) of college instate paid. Hopefully that will still be around in a few years!


Where do you live? And how is the cost of living?

Thanks


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## mamayogibear (May 8, 2011)

Quote: Originally Posted by *BaileyB* 

If I can add one thing that is slightly off subject...To those that are saying that their children *know* that they are expected to go to college, I would say, please don't do that. I know you want the very best for them but my parents did that and you have no idea what that does mentally if they were to decide not to go or don't know what they want to do straight out of high school. They may feel like failures if they don't go or have trouble deciding what to do and may end up in school for a long time (and end up crushed by debt) trying to become something that *you* can be proud of. Just be happy that they are happy and healthy.









I totally agree with you! I graduated high school when I was sixteen and my parents basically forced me to go to the most expensive university possible and made me sign the student loan forms to go. I had no desire to go to college at the time I wanted to just get a job at a coffee shop and go backpacking... but anyways I was stuck going to college that was a pass fail school so none of the credits transfered anywhere. As soon as I turned eighteen I dropped out and got my first job as a barista and traveled to my hearts content with 20k of student loan debt of course. I still resent it especially since they constantly bring up how I wasted their time getting me into a university.... College is overrated! I plan for my kids to go to community college if they want or get a job doing whatever and they can stay at home after graduating high school either way.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Personally, I think state schools and community colleges get a bad rap. If you're not sure about what you want to do with your degree, or even whether a degree is right for you, it's much better to find that out before you go deeply into debt. One of the things I love about teaching at a state school with a non-traditional (a.k.a. older) population is that my student know why they're there. They may be completely overstretched, but very few of them are unmotivated.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyllya*
> 
> I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, so I found a college that looked good (to my naive 17-year-old self), applied, prayed, got accepted, got good grades, and got a Bachelor's degree. I had job skills for a brief period after graduating, but within a year I either forgot them or they became obsolete. I have a buttload of debt and I work at a minimum wage job that I don't like, because it's the only job I can do. If it weren't for my fiance and my mom paying some of my bills, I wouldn't be able to survive right now.


See, here's where I wonder what kind of help you were getting from your parents. You needed some guidance and talk about careers and goals. You probably would have been better off going to a community college and figuring out what you wanted to be when you grew up. One of the problems I have with smaller colleges is that because the tuition is so high, if you switch majors, you may not be able to finish your degree in time, and you can't afford a 5th year. So some students end up with degrees in fields that they're not that interested in just to be done. You really have to know that the college is right for you and your future goals.

I was really enamored of a pricey, private institution on the East Coast. l thought I wanted to do biomedical engineering. My parents helped me look at the prices, the amount loans I'd have to take out, and reminded me that our state university had an excellent engineering college. I'm very grateful. I took 2 terms of engineering prereqs before I discovered it was the wrong field. When the engineering department told me I couldn't study abroad because it would mess up my schedule of courses, that solidified it. They were boring and inflexible. No slam on engineers, but that's how I knew it wasn't the right field for me. I tried out pre-med and came to the conclusion that these people were hypercompetitive, cut-throat, and more interested in money than I was. I also discovered that I really didn't care about the difference between the pig's spleen and the pig's liver when I was dissecting animals. I sort of figured that a doctor should probably care. My third field, German, was a perfect fit. It gave me absolutely zero marketable skills, but I got a dynamite education, and continued on in the general area. I learned to write, think and learn. For ME liberal arts is what I needed.

But, if I'd been at a private college, I'd probably not have switched majors. I wouldn't have been able to spend a whole year living on my own in Germany (on scholarship). I'd be a miserable engineer, or someone who was not using her degree at all. As it is, my ability to try out several different majors for a fairly low cost (OK, so I have a full year of chemistry more than I needed to graduate, oh well. I kind of liked organic chemistry and calculus anyway, even though I never use them.) I'm grateful that my parents convinced me not to go to a pricey school.

I strongly suspect that at least one of kids will end up at a state institution for similar reasons. Ds would probably thrive at a smaller institution, but I'm pretty sure dd is going to need a bigger place because her interests are so diverse (teaching? pastor? social worker? lawyer? vet?).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AbbyGrant*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> That's part of the increase in tuition here as well at public universities. But the tuition at private universities is skyrocketing as well, far more than inflation can explain. For example, there's a very prestigious private university in the area that's over $40,000 a year now for tuition which is about double what it was when I started school in the late 90s. It's gone up about $16,000 just in the last decade.


I agree that private tuition is insane. You know what they're doing? They're charging full price to the 2% of the population who can afford it (though those people probably make up a much larger chunk of the student body than 2%), and using that money to fund scholarships for students who can't. It's an ironic form of socialism, really.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *MrsGregory*
> 
> 4th grade?!?!?!? I have to be ready to deal with this topic while she's in grade school??????


It's not all that bad. And it's a really good idea for kids whose parents didn't go to college. 4th grade might be a little young for that degree of planning, but realistically, kids need that information before they get to high school. If you don't understand that you need 4 years of English, 4 years of math, 4 years of science and 2-4 years of a foreign language to get into college, it's going to be hard if you want to go. Our son did something similar (though not as in depth) this year. He had to list 3-4 possible careers, choose one and tell what kind of education he'd need to get to do that career. Given the demographics of that school (a lot of children whose parents are immigrants to the US), I was thrilled to see them do this exercise. It's helping to teach children the cultural capital that's the subject of a big TAO thread right now.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cristeen*
> 
> The local community colleges are $36/unit right now for CA residents, they do not offer Bachelor's degrees (ETA - guess I should say FT is considered 12+ units)
> 
> ...


Community college is a steal in CA compared to Oregon:

Community college: $79 / credit, plus an obligatory $6.70 in fees (technology fee and student activity fee), plus a $20 per term student services fee.

Oregon University System varies:

Oregon State: $6228 for 12 credit load 3 quarters per year; with student fees $7600

University of Oregon $6000 for 12 credit load, 3 quarters per year; with student fees $7300

Portland State: $5000 for 12 credit load, 3 quarters per year; with student fees $6500

Each credit you take beyond this cost about $140-$150 a credit. 12 credits is the bare minimum to be full time, and it's hard to graduate on time if you only take 12 credits a term.

The other smaller Oregon schools are slightly cheaper, but only by about $200-$500 a year. Out of state students pay 3x as much. (Except for Eastern Oregon University. It's is a steal for out of state students as it has the same cost for out of state and in state tuition).


----------



## canadianhippie (Jul 1, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JollyGG*
> 
> My kids will probably end up using student loans for a large part of college. My husband and I have talked about paying their student loans for a set number of years after they graduate, gradually decreasing the amount we pay and increasing the amount they pay as they move into more stable and better paying jobs after graduation.


beautiful! thats a great idea!


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## member234098 (Aug 3, 2002)

.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> Eh, cause I found a way to pay for college that didn't touch my parents bank account... not that they even had the money. And I don't have my degree... but um... I'm doing quite well right now. Though I finally turned in all my paperwork and will be starting AMU in the summer. YAY ME! Oh and to clear that up, I'll be using my post 9/11 GI bill.


This will really make a big difference in whether and how your children go to college. If you model going back to school, they will become more aware of what it takes to get the degree.

The fact that you figured out how to pay for it without having money saved for your education will also make a difference for them.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> It's not all that bad. And it's a really good idea for kids whose parents didn't go to college. 4th grade might be a little young for that degree of planning, but realistically, kids need that information before they get to high school. If you don't understand that you need 4 years of English, 4 years of math, 4 years of science and 2-4 years of a foreign language to get into college, it's going to be hard if you want to go.
> 
> ...


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *captain optimism*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


You know...I hadn't actually realized it until this post, but you have a point. In my case, it went the other way, though. Watching my mom struggle through her degree made post-secondary seem really, really unappealing. I already thought the idea of more school was about as attractive as an elective root canal. By the time I watched my mom finish hers, it seemed about as attractive as a root canal on every single tooth in my mouth.

I do have to say that, as belligerent as I get about it, I have a lot of admiration for people who get their degrees. I don't have anywhere near what it takes to do it.


----------



## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> I agree that private tuition is insane. You know what they're doing? They're charging full price to the 2% of the population who can afford it (though those people probably make up a much larger chunk of the student body than 2%), and using that money to fund scholarships for students who can't. It's an ironic form of socialism, really.


This thread had me reading some articles about the rising cost of college in the US, and scholarships were one of the reasons listed. It turns out it's sort of this cyclical thing where as prices rise, so do the amount of people who need scholarships, and the more scholarships that are given, the more the price goes up for everyone else which means more people will need scholarships, and so on. Plus there's been an increase in merit based scholarships to attract the best and brightest so to speak. Demand also plays a part in the increase as well as increased spending on student services and faculty. I'm sure there are other things too.

Whatever the reasons though, I really wonder if college is even going to be a possibility for my kids. At this rate, by the time they're ready to start school in 2024 and 2027, tuition at a state university is going to be absolutely outrageous. I found an online calculator that let's you put in the year and the school, and I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry at the results of how much it would take just to cover tuition at the same state university I went to. I had done my own crude projections based on how things have been going and was hoping the calculator would prove me wrong, but no such luck.


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## member234098 (Aug 3, 2002)

.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I agree Miriam. I refuse to allow them to get a loan for college. I cannot imagine what it would be like to start out life with a huge debt looming over your young years. And I don't want them to think that putting themselves in debt is the norm or that it's even okay. There are ways to get to college without doing it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miriam*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> I refuse to allow them to get a loan for college.


I'm not sure I'll have any choice in the matter if my kid's plans include getting a four-year degree or more. The conservative estimate I came up with (based on 7% inflation...it's been going up 6.5% per year which was the cap which they worked their way around this year to go to 10%) to send my children to the state university I went to (which by all accounts is a pretty good value) was about $70,000 for my daughter and $85,000 for my son just for tuition and fees for four years. Now I could offset that by having them go to a community college for the first two years, but community college is rising as well. Either way they do it, it's going to cost a fortune. I'm beginning to wish I hadn't even started thinking about all this.


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## canadianhippie (Jul 1, 2010)

Im in my 2nd year of college, on OSAP funding and i owe $14,000 so far

i still have most of that, however, Ill probably keep going in school...so more debt!

My parents did not save, the deal is, if your going to school, they'll support you ie) food, a place to live

Im not sure how you can afford tuition without a loan, unless it's been saved


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Scholarships, grants, dead uncles, the military. Just some ideas.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *canadianhippie*
> 
> Im in my 2nd year of college, on OSAP funding and i owe $14,000 so far
> 
> ...


----------



## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

I think saying "no loans" is a very black and white way of looking at the issue. If you take out a total of, say, $10K in loans, you'll be paying about $100 a month for ten years in repayment (or you can pay it off faster and pay less). A hundred bucks a month is doable for most people, and if it allows you to do something cool like spend a year in another country or not work for a year and focus intensely on your studies, maybe it's worth it.

I have friends who have over 100K in loans, though, and that scares me.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> I agree Miriam. I refuse to allow them to get a loan for college. I cannot imagine what it would be like to start out life with a huge debt looming over your young years. And I don't want them to think that putting themselves in debt is the norm or that it's even okay. There are ways to get to college without doing it.


I really don't think you'll have much say if your 18 year old decides to get a few federal loans at a low interest rate. I know my DH would have told his parents too bad, I got into the college I wanted and there is no way I am not going. I don't know many people who didn't graduate without loans and I really think it's fine. If you go for a 7 year pharmacy degree you're going to need loans, but you'll come out making at least 90k and be able to pay them off quickly. DH went to a private college and we paid his off in a year. If you're smart about what loans you take out, get scholarships and grants and work in addition to the loans I don't see why you don't think they're an option.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

I think it depends on your field of study.

Getting loans for a field that has lots of opportunity and pays reasonably well is one thing. A degree in Fine Arts (which is what my degree is in) is another







. I don't regret it - and a degree (any degree) has afforded me a more pleasant job than if I did not have a degree, but it would have been better if I had done it without significant student debt.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I suppose if you're in the mindset of pay to play as being ok... then sure. I'm not. If my kids want to take out loans and then be a slave to repay them. Fine... I was slave to the military to get my college payed for... I won't advocate for it. And I certainly know that they can do as they wish as adults. Then again, I do plan on bribing them to stay with me forever... we'll see how that works out for me. And I'm joking.

I would prefer that they don't get loans. I'm not okay with watching my kids start out in debt. I don't like it. I think it sucks. And I think a system that cultivates pay to play is sad. But we just keep moving along... since this is just how it is.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Loans can certainly make it easy to go to college... Just don't like the idea of it. I can be black and white about, since I'm gray about everything else.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dar*
> 
> I think saying "no loans" is a very black and white way of looking at the issue. If you take out a total of, say, $10K in loans, you'll be paying about $100 a month for ten years in repayment (or you can pay it off faster and pay less). A hundred bucks a month is doable for most people, and if it allows you to do something cool like spend a year in another country or not work for a year and focus intensely on your studies, maybe it's worth it.
> I have friends who have over 100K in loans, though, and that scares me.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1346208/student-loans-and-income-based-repayment-ibr

This thread... reminds me why I will talk to my kids about loan debt for education.


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## alittlesandy (Jan 20, 2010)

I have two points. I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize if these have been made already, but I'm sharing my own experience.

1. I have massive student loan debt for a total of three degrees, including a doctorate. I was the only person in my family to go to college and there was no way in hell my parents were going to pay for it. However, student loan debt is the easiest and most forgiving debt out there. My interest rate is very low, and I have deferred my loans or gone into forbearance many times. The federal student loan program is very forgiving, and all I do is fill out a simple online form that requires no extra documentation in order to stop my payments for up to a year at a time. It's nothing like dealing with credit card companies. The interest rate is so low that Suzy Orman recommends investing money rather than paying off these types of loans, as the returns are higher. I realize that this isn't the case with all loans.

Because of my education and my debt, I have an excellent job that I love and I have job security in uncertain times. My dad jokes with me that I bought my job, which is in some ways true. The debt I have is entirely worth it when I think of where I would be without my education. I could not have done it without loans. I did not qualify for grants, and was not good enough at anything to get a scholarship. Even with loans I worked all through college, and that wouldn't have been enough to pay for my education. Loans literally saved my life.

2. I noticed, when I was a student, and now as a college professor, that students who either work and/or pay for their own education are much more focused and mature, and much better at managing their time. I know quite a few students whose parents pay for everything so they can "concentrate on their studies" and these students have it so easy they can't find the motivation to get out of bed. Many of them sleep through class, play video games, and party excessively. I know this is a HUGE generalization and that there are always exceptions, but it's a pattern I've noticed.

So, in conclusion, I say don't feel guilty if you don't plan on saving for your child's education, don't assume that all loans and all debt is a bad thing, and don't assume that kids who don't have to work are better students. None of those things have been my experience.


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## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

There are all kinds of student loans, and if used wisely, I think some can be well worth starting out in a little bit of debt.

As part of my financial aid package the last two years of school, I was offered a federal subsidized low interest loan. I would have been a fool to turn it down. Taking out that small loan allowed me work less and study more. Therefore, I was able to graduate on time and with honors.

There was a grace period after graduating before payments started, and interest didn't start to accrue until that time. I ended up being able to pay it off early due to some good financial fortune, but the monthly payments were not killing me or anything. It was nice to be rid of it though, but I never felt like a slave to it.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

I don't see how responsibly using loans is any worse than a mortgage (which I'm guessing some people here are against).


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## baileyb (Dec 22, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> I agree Miriam. I refuse to allow them to get a loan for college. I cannot imagine what it would be like to start out life with a huge debt looming over your young years. And I don't want them to think that putting themselves in debt is the norm or that it's even okay. There are ways to get to college without doing it.


I didn't end up having any student loan debt because I dropped out early enough but my brother went to a private college with no scholarships, paid full $40,000/year-ish tuition with loans, took him a year and a half to get a job at Starbucks, then was encouraged by my mother to 'go-for-it' and take out a car loan for a 2010 convertible mustang (that he gets drive around all through MN winter!) at 12% interest and now still lives at home with, what, like $180,000 in debt at age 24. I know he is an extreme case but I can't imagine his stress, at 24, trying to pay that off. Thank God he can be on my parent's health insurance for 2 more years, right? Sigh...


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## baileyb (Dec 22, 2010)

> I really don't think you'll have much say if your 18 year old decides to get a few federal loans at a low interest rate. I know my DH would have told his parents too bad, I got into the college I wanted and there is no way I am not going. I don't know many people who didn't graduate without loans and I really think it's fine. If you go for a 7 year pharmacy degree you're going to need loans, but you'll come out making at least 90k and be able to pay them off quickly. DH went to a private college and we paid his off in a year. If you're smart about what loans you take out, get scholarships and grants and work in addition to the loans I don't see why you don't think they're an option.


It is totally different when your child takes the initiative to apply and sign up for loans on his own and decides to take on that debt knowingly. But it's totally different when your parent tells you if you don't go your only option will be work at McDonalds, then takes you to a few schools so you can decide where to go, sets up meetings for financial aid and has you sign your future salary from a future job away, then you graduate with a basket weaving degree and can't get a job that pays enough to pay the bills. Next thing you know your kid is down banging drums at Zucotti park wanting "their fair share" from the banks that "took their money". I am absolutely and totally NOT against college or college degrees or careers nor am I pro-giganto-bank, etc. but I think that people REALLY have to way their options and not just go because "everyone else is going" or "because my parents said I should go."

And no offense to the kids at Zucotti Park, I'd be pissed too!


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## baileyb (Dec 22, 2010)

I think we also have to remember that student loan debt is not bankruptable. It will never go away until it is paid off. There was a mention of Suze Orman in a PP and I have seen one of her episodes where a man was semi-suicidal and crying because he could not get out of his student loan debt and couldn't afford to pay it. He was in his 40's so I don't know if he could defer it.

To answer *Honey693*, I am in theory against mortgages but do have one because I am also against us being homeless. haha. But then again a loan for a house guarantees a house. Loan for school doesn't guarantee anything.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alittlesandy*
> 
> 2. I noticed, when I was a student, and now as a college professor, that students who either work and/or pay for their own education are much more focused and mature, and much better at managing their time. I know quite a few students whose parents pay for everything so they can "concentrate on their studies" and these students have it so easy they can't find the motivation to get out of bed. Many of them sleep through class, play video games, and party excessively. I know this is a HUGE generalization and that there are always exceptions, but it's a pattern I've noticed.


This is interesting to me. I had a former manager who once told me she wished resumes showed how a person paid for their degree, for the reasons you state above. Only, she was expanding it to the workforce. She had noticed a strong pattern (again - there were exceptions) over the years, where the students who had had to pay for their own educations were solid employees, and the ones whose parents had paid weren't'. Again, it wasn't always that way, and it was a generalization, but she'd noticed the pattern over three decades in the workforce, talking to colleagues, employees, and occasionally her own managers, about their education before entering the workforce.

I've noticed something similar over the years, but my sample size is far, far too small to get a handle on. I've worked mostly in very small companies. The place where I worked with the most people was a packaged office building where I worked for the management, and most of our tenants were entrepreneurs, who are a somewhat atypical sample of almost anything. (Quite a few of them were thriving on no education beyond high school.) Once I take out that job, I really haven't had a lot of coworkers, etc., to work with, yk?


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Bailey, we don't usually agree... But you just made me laugh my butt off... at work... they're all looking at me funny...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BaileyB*
> 
> It is totally different when your child takes the initiative to apply and sign up for loans on his own and decides to take on that debt knowingly. But it's totally different when your parent tells you if you don't go your only option will be work at McDonalds, then takes you to a few schools so you can decide where to go, sets up meetings for financial aid and has you sign your future salary from a future job away, then you graduate with a basket weaving degree and can't get a job that pays enough to pay the bills. Next thing you know your kid is down banging drums at Zucotti park wanting "their fair share" from the banks that "took their money". I am absolutely and totally NOT against college or college degrees or careers nor am I pro-giganto-bank, etc. but I think that people REALLY have to way their options and not just go because "everyone else is going" or "because my parents said I should go."
> 
> And no offense to the kids at Zucotti Park, I'd be pissed too!


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## mamayogibear (May 8, 2011)

This is totally what happened to me and because of it I am in tons of debt with no degree but am soo happy I dropped out of university when I turned 18 and discovered the real world. Despite working full time and making some payments towards loans I still owe a ton! I just hope my kids can find their niche without paying a ton!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BaileyB*
> 
> It is totally different when your child takes the initiative to apply and sign up for loans on his own and decides to take on that debt knowingly. But it's totally different when your parent tells you if you don't go your only option will be work at McDonalds, then takes you to a few schools so you can decide where to go, sets up meetings for financial aid and has you sign your future salary from a future job away, then you graduate with a basket weaving degree and can't get a job that pays enough to pay the bills. Next thing you know your kid is down banging drums at Zucotti park wanting "their fair share" from the banks that "took their money". I am absolutely and totally NOT against college or college degrees or careers nor am I pro-giganto-bank, etc. but I think that people REALLY have to way their options and not just go because "everyone else is going" or "because my parents said I should go."
> 
> And no offense to the kids at Zucotti Park, I'd be pissed too!


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

My daughter's roommate's parents are paying out of pocket for her entire college education - over 50K a year. Roommate (who apparently is friends with at least one of the Kardashians and was on their show and went to school with Arnie and Maria's son) has been drinking and drugging her way through the year, getting bad grades, and is currently on probation. Rain, otoh, has been working hard in order to keep her scholarship and increase her chances of getting other sorts of funding, because she knows there's no way we can pay that out of pocket.

I was doing my taxes this year and realized that between the two of us we "paid" something like 80K this year for college tuition - that's 2 semesters for me and one for Rain. It blows my mind. Of course, we really "paid" none of it - it was all covered by scholarships - but it seems like just an incredible amount...


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## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *BaileyB*
> 
> To answer *Honey693*, I am in theory against mortgages but do have one because I am also against us being homeless. haha. But then again a loan for a house guarantees a house. Loan for school doesn't guarantee anything.


All a loan for a house guarantees is a loan for a house. It does't guarantee a house. You have to make the payments for that unlike my student loan where I got the education upfront and then got to pay it off. The government could not have taken my degree or education back if I missed payments, but if I don't send in my mortgage, my house will be taken back by the bank. Of course my education did not guarantee a huge salary or even a job, but it certainly gave me better prospects than I had before.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

My parents were set to pay for my undergrad degree, but I got scholarships instead. Wealthy parents != Lazy-ass kid, thank you very much.

That being said, we started a college fund for the kids before they were born. I am an only child and my parents are wealthy, I believe they have already started setting aside $$ for the kids but they're also control freaks so I'll make a full disclosure/discussion about "strings" with my kids should they lean towards accepting that money.

We will help pay for undergrad at a state school (because we have already destroyed our kids' chances for a need-based student loan, and there's a ton of predatory lenders out there still for the non-need based ones, it's not my kids fault that they were born into our family). If they do service in the military or peace corps or some other significant service to the community at large equivalent we will either assist with grad school OR give them a nest egg for starting a business/investment/family/ect. If the kids decide to go to trade school/go for an apprenticeship/undergrad equivalent, we will provide financial assistance while they're going through their education. Same gift for community service applies.

I don't look down on people who cannot or won't provide for their kids' post-secondary education. I can see all sides of that. I feel very fortunate that our family has the *privledge* of that option (because that is certainly what it entails). What irritates me is the ASSumption that doing so ruins the kids. Sorry, but having grown up in those circles, so far as I can tell it doesn't, and I certainly met many people at college who blew their own student loans on drinking orgies, racking up stupid consumer debt, and being blissfully unaware of how they were squandering their opportunities as well. I think it's stupid to pretend that post-secondary education is a guarantee of wealth or a job; but it's just as stupid to pretend that it has absolutely no effect ever.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

I forgot to say with my answer that our helping pay is contingent on grades. If my kids are flunking out, we're done paying. They can come home and try a semester at the community college by the house or work until they can get their heads on straight, grow up and act like an adult.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

I think the whole concept that kids won't appreciate an education unless they pay for it themselves is a falsity, to an extent...a throw-back from the old the days where one couldn't appreciate a dollar until one made a dollar...so forth and so on.

Kids who want to learn and feel directed are going to do well, whether or not their parents pay for it or not. I think where one sees the problem is when kids are thrust into a college education, don't really know what they want to do, don't have the underlying drive to do something, and then flounder around and don't treat their education as a privilege or are driven because there is nothing driving them. No goals, no ideas, no reasons. I mean, I had scholarships throughout - I wasn't personally paying for my education - but I had an underlying desire to do something and to learn something. I think therein lies the issue...a desire to learn. I think this goes to the issue that a lot of kids are expected to go to college and don't really know why they are there or what they should do. If their parents are paying for it, it compounds the problem. But again, I don't think that kids whose parents underwrite their educate are flailing because of that, but because they lack direction.














(DD added the last in the way of graphics)


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Anyway, when you have kids who are young, like I do, and like the OP does, how do you get them into an appropriate education that will make them a happy, well-rounded person who can get a job doing what they want to do?

I think one way to make that happen is to save some money toward a college education, if you can afford to do that without having to stint on more basic things. Another way is to model seeking more education and vocational training. If a person has the great good fortune to be able to do BOTH of those things, well, then we're really cooking with gas.

I am really not worried that my kid is going to turn out to be a spoiled, directionless, hard-partying wastrel if a miracle happens and I manage to put together enough savings to give him a free ride in college. That's just not my concern. I'm also not attached to university as the only model for achieving happiness--but I do see my kid is fascinated by math and science and that I ought to plan accordingly. These stories about how kids are too spoiled to do well in university--yes, there are young adults like that out there, I taught some of them.

I don't think paying for school will turn my kid into one of them.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

I don't agree either that parents paying for a degree means the kids aren't motivated. I could have done a little better than my 3.45 in undergrad, perhaps, if I were paying, but I think I did pretty well. And got a 3.5 when I went back to school and paid for it myself.

in re various stuff brought up in this thread-- my husband and I have discussed this a lot and his position, which ultimately I've decided I agree with, is that the kids should have a plan. They should decide what they want to do and pursue it. Even if they then change their mind and have to change their course of study, it's better than not having a plan at all. And if they have no idea what they want to do, they should work on getting an idea, rather than just going through school anyway and figuring that they'll figure it out when they're done. I went to a small liberal arts school that I do feel encouraged the idea of just getting the degree if you didn't have a specific career ambition and then figuring out what you want to do. I don't think this prepared my friends and me very well. Of myself and several close friends from undergrad, all now in our late twenties/early thirties, there isn't a single one of us who graduated with a degree relevant to what we wanted to do and is still doing that thing. There are a couple people who still don't have the foggiest clue what they want to do and a couple who are doing the thing that they got dropped into but it's not necessarily their dream job and they don't have a great handle on what their dream job would be and how to get there. Then there are a couple of us who did figure out our dream jobs and pursued them, but for both of us, that involved going back to school in something totally unrelated to our undergrad major. Maybe my friends are just a clueless bunch, but there were lots more people at our school like this. My husband isn't doing the thing that he thought he'd do when he started college--he changed his mind a couple of times, but he always had something in mind and had in mind how his course of study would relate to it. I do think I want to encourage this for our kids when the time comes, and we can all sit down and figure out what course of action in college is best.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
> 
> I don't look down on people who cannot or won't provide for their kids' post-secondary education. I can see all sides of that. I feel very fortunate that our family has the *privledge* of that option (because that is certainly what it entails). What irritates me is the ASSumption that doing so ruins the kids. Sorry, but having grown up in those circles, so far as I can tell it doesn't, and I certainly met many people at college who blew their own student loans on drinking orgies, racking up stupid consumer debt, and being blissfully unaware of how they were squandering their opportunities as well. I think it's stupid to pretend that post-secondary education is a guarantee of wealth or a job; but it's just as stupid to pretend that it has absolutely no effect ever.


I'm not assuming it, and I specifically said that there are exceptions. But, it is something I've actually witnessed in the workplace, and I'm not alone. However, to be honest, I found that it applied to a lot of people with degrees, no matter how the education was paid for. It's certainly not everybody - not by a longshot - but there are people out there, in non trivial numbers, who seem to feel that once they have their degree, they've paid their dues, and can coast by on less work than their less accomplished colleagues. It's far from universal, but the tendency/trend does exist.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> I think the whole concept that kids won't appreciate an education unless they pay for it themselves is a falsity, to an extent...a throw-back from the old the days where one couldn't appreciate a dollar until one made a dollar...so forth and so on.
> 
> ...


Yeah - actually, this is probably a large part of what I've observed. However, I've seen it in the workplace, post degree. I'm not sure what happens there.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *erigeron*
> 
> I don't agree either that parents paying for a degree means the kids aren't motivated. I could have done a little better than my 3.45 in undergrad, perhaps, if I were paying, but I think I did pretty well. And got a 3.5 when I went back to school and paid for it myself.
> 
> in re various stuff brought up in this thread-- my husband and I have discussed this a lot and his position, which ultimately I've decided I agree with, is that the kids should have a plan. They should decide what they want to do and pursue it. Even if they then change their mind and have to change their course of study, it's better than not having a plan at all. And if they have no idea what they want to do, they should work on getting an idea, rather than just going through school anyway and figuring that they'll figure it out when they're done.


And, what if they "work on getting an idea", and still don't have one? I'm in my 40s, and know lots of people my age who have no idea what they want to be "when they grow up". I know people even older who also never figured it out. My mom and dad understood it, becuase they were both the same way. But, I've always wondered how parents who believe in plans handle people like me. Some of us just don't have anything we really want to do.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Okay - I had skipped over the entire latter part of your post, here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by *erigeron* 


> Of myself and several close friends from undergrad, all now in our late twenties/early thirties, *there isn't a single one of us who graduated with a degree relevant to what we wanted to do and is still doing that thing. There are a couple people who still don't have the foggiest clue what they want to do and a couple who are doing the thing that they got dropped into but it's not necessarily their dream job and they don't have a great handle on what their dream job would be and how to get there. Then there are a couple of us who did figure out our dream jobs and pursued them, but for both of us, that involved going back to school in something totally unrelated to our undergrad major. Maybe my friends are just a clueless bunch, but there were lots more people at our school like this.* My husband isn't doing the thing that he thought he'd do when he started college--he changed his mind a couple of times, but he always had something in mind and had in mind how his course of study would relate to it. I do think I want to encourage this for our kids when the time comes, and we can all sit down and figure out what course of action in college is best.


Among my family and friends who have degrees, this is the rule, not the exception. Our entire cultural approach to formal education and career building was structured around the idea that people could decide what they wanted to do with their lives at about 15 or 16 (with maybe a hint of wiggle room, but there are course prerequisites to consider), and determine the path that would work for the rest of their lives from that. IME, it's only a very few people who can really do that, and have it work well.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

With a few exceptions, I don't really think an undergrad degree is meant to prepare you for a specific job. It's meant to expose you to a wide variety of ideas, ensure that you can read, understand, analyze, write a paper... also that you can organize your time and that you are able to commit to a 4(ish) year project and complete it successfully. Having attended community colleges, non-selective state universities, for-profit private universities, and selective private universities, I do think there is a difference in the expectations of each, overall - of course there are exceptions, but overall. For example, the amount of reading expected per week generally differs, and the length of a class paper, and the expectations for the quality of the papers.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

You make valid points, Storm Bride. I think I have been left a little skeptical of the "get a degree, then figure out what to do" model of degree-pursuing. IME, though college is a great experience, that mentality leaves people ill-prepared for the so-called Real World. I'd rather my kids have an idea of what they want to do. If they don't have an idea, I'd like them to look around before going to college. If they do that and STILL don't have an idea, I do think having a college education would fit them better than not having one (if nothing else, it makes it easier to go back if they figure out what they really want to do and it requires a grad degree), but I am in favor of them at least trying to acquire direction before starting the degree program. My backstory is that I would have loved to gap-year and try to see a little more of the world, because I felt painfully sheltered and clueless coming out of high school, but the dynamic in my family was too unhealthy for me to voluntarily subject myself to another year under their surveillance. Absent that issue, I think I would have been well-served by a year to get my head together and mature a little in my peer relationships and decompress and do some research about what careers were out there and how they might match up to my interests. It came out well for me on the whole anyway, but that doesn't mean I'm not looking at how to improve the experience for the next generation.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *erigeron*
> 
> You make valid points, Storm Bride. I think I have been left a little skeptical of the "get a degree, then figure out what to do" model of degree-pursuing. IME, though college is a great experience, that mentality leaves people ill-prepared for the so-called Real World. I'd rather my kids have an idea of what they want to do. If they don't have an idea, I'd like them to look around before going to college. If they do that and STILL don't have an idea, I do think having a college education would fit them better than not having one (if nothing else, it makes it easier to go back if they figure out what they really want to do and it requires a grad degree), but I am in favor of them at least trying to acquire direction before starting the degree program. My backstory is that *I would have loved to gap-year* and try to see a little more of the world, because I felt painfully sheltered and clueless coming out of high school, but the dynamic in my family was too unhealthy for me to voluntarily subject myself to another year under their surveillance. Absent that issue, I think I would have been well-served by a year to get my head together and mature a little in my peer relationships and decompress and do some research about what careers were out there and how they might match up to my interests. It came out well for me on the whole anyway, but that doesn't mean I'm not looking at how to improve the experience for the next generation.


I've talked about the "gap year" with a lot of people (most of whom do have degrees) over the years, and I think it would be very valuable for a lot of people, maybe the majority. There are always other factors (such as your family situation), but I think the gap year is a really good idea, in general.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Okay - I had skipped over the entire latter part of your post, here:
> 
> Among my family and friends who have degrees, this is the rule, not the exception. Our entire cultural approach to formal education and career building was structured around the idea that people could decide what they wanted to do with their lives at about 15 or 16 (with maybe a hint of wiggle room, but there are course prerequisites to consider), and determine the path that would work for the rest of their lives from that. *IME, it's only a very few people who can really do that, and have it work well*.


Maybe it's just the people I hang out with, but in my experience getting a degree and working in that field is the rule, not the exception. All of DH's friends went to private schools and out of the ones he still talks to only one isn't working in their degree field. That one is back getting his masters in the field though. I went to a public university and at least half of my group ended up in their degree field. I hung out with all teaching and pharmacy majors though. I'd be willing to bet it wouldn't be the same with liberal arts, theater, etc majors.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> Maybe it's just the people I hang out with, but in my experience getting a degree and working in that field is the rule, not the exception. All of DH's friends went to private schools and out of the ones he still talks to only one isn't working in their degree field. That one is back getting his masters in the field though. I went to a public university and at least half of my group ended up in their degree field. I hung out with all teaching and pharmacy majors though. I'd be willing to bet it wouldn't be the same with liberal arts, theater, etc majors.


I've met quite a few who are working in the fields they got their degree in. What i haven't talked to are a lot of people who are doing so, and happy about it. The ones that are usually have at least a Masters, and generally changed tracks, at least somewhat, between their Bachelors and their Masters. I just haven't met that many people who chose a field, got their Bachelors degree in that field, and then happily went to work in that same field. Most of them either changed tracks somewhere along the way, or felt trapped and stuck it out, but don't like it, in their originally chosen field. (Obviously, it's not everyone, but it's what I've seen the most.)


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I've met quite a few who are working in the fields they got their degree in. What i haven't talked to are a lot of people who are doing so, and happy about it. The ones that are usually have at least a Masters, and generally changed tracks, at least somewhat, between their Bachelors and their Masters. I just haven't met that many people who chose a field, got their Bachelors degree in that field, and then happily went to work in that same field. Most of them either changed tracks somewhere along the way, or felt trapped and stuck it out, but don't like it, in their originally chosen field. (Obviously, it's not everyone, but it's what I've seen the most.)


Most of our friends are happy. The pharmacists I know love their jobs (and the flexibility) and almost all the engineers do, though it took a some of them a few years to find the job they loved. I guess it depends on who you hang around with. That being said there is no way I will pay for my kid to go in with no idea what they want to do. Dropping that kind of money so they can take entry level classes that might not even transfer to their degree program will not happen here.


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## chenchen (Dec 30, 2011)

We would like DC to go to college because we feel it will give better footing for a career. I am torn on the payment portion. We are in a position to be able to help, and a huge part of me wants to. The other half knows the value of paying for my own education - the investment in myself. I am always trying to avoid instilling a sense of entitlement in DC. I think there's some value in DC worrying over how to make the pieces come together for something greatly desired. I am concerned that knowing that higher education is paid for prevents DC from having to prioritize and think critically about how to bring those pieces together.

We're a long ways off at the moment, so hopefully the high school years will be full of frank, soul searching conversations that leave us feeling that DC maturely accept our contribution towards higher education as a gift. One that's appreciated and not taken for granted. Being debt-free upon graduation is wonderful, but if you don't have an appreciation for the value of that, then it's a gift likely of being thrown away. Most people who want to be debt free want it because they have held debt and know what its pressure-grip is like. Student loans may be the safest way to experience that. Just thinking aloud here.

Despite our lack of clarity about what we'll do that that point, we are making plans that would allow us to pay for DCs education should we go that route. We put aside 4K per year into a 529, and we have refinanced our home so that it will be paid off the year before DC goes to college. That means the monthly mortgage amount would be available to pay tuition payments as they roll in.


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## purslaine (Feb 20, 2006)

chenchen&#8230;.I don't think it has to be all or nothing.

You could pay for their tuition and room and board - but leave any spending money up to them, alternately you could pay a % of all costs (say 75%). They will still have to figure out how the pieces come together, but will not be burdened by huge debt.


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## AbbyGrant (Jan 12, 2012)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> I think the whole concept that kids won't appreciate an education unless they pay for it themselves is a falsity, to an extent...a throw-back from the old the days where one couldn't appreciate a dollar until one made a dollar...so forth and so on.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with this. I don't think putting myself through school made me appreciate my education more or made me do better in school than if my parents had paid (heck, the government paid for some, and I appreciated it). What helped me was waiting to go until I had the motivation to go and the desire to learn, not figuring out how to pay for it myself.

I think parents paying might just allow some kids to go that aren't really all that motivated whereas this would be less likely if these kids had to put themselves through. Considering the amount of effort it usually takes to do so, making kids figure out how to pay for college themselves would be a pretty easy way to separate out those that really wanted to go and those that were going just because. However, that doesn't mean that parents paying is the problem.

Honestly, if I had the money, I'd pay for my kids to go to school in a heartbeat as long as they had a desire to learn and were driven to do well but not just because they didn't know what else to do or because all their friends were going or because I wanted them to go. Sending them for the latter reasons would be a pretty good way to set them up for failure and pretty good way for me to lose a lot of money.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

It's good to let them know there are options in life that don't include a degree. However DD1 has asked what she has to do to become a teacher. As our neighbors are teachers I sent her over there to find out. She came back pretty excited. The neighbor told her that there are many ways to get her degree and would be happy to help her find out all about it. He teaches now at a community college but used to teach high school. They've invited her to come along, his wife teaches history and DD wants to go with her one day to see the school she teaches at. Giving them opportunities to see what it all entails is a good idea in my opinion. I wanted to be a cop when I was younger and I got to do a ride along... realized it was boring as heck and there was way too much sitting around. I didn't like that. I also wanted to have my own ranch... yeah two weeks at grandmas mucking poo and bucking bales made me realize that wasn't my path either. I babysat for a pharmacist and he took me to his pharmacy for a day once. Again... boring. I got to try the things I was interested in. There are numerous opportunities out there that will allow the kids to see what it would really be like. DD1 got to build a computer with me last year and she enjoyed that. She likes to build things and had fun doing it. She also worked on the car with me and enjoyed that as well. So much so that she helped me change the oil last month and watched me change a tire. Simple things nothing serious but she enjoyed it. While none of those things sound like exciting career options all of it gives her some idea of what things might be like. And each time she wants to try something I'll find an opportunity for her to do so.


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## JollyGG (Oct 1, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> I think the whole concept that kids won't appreciate an education unless they pay for it themselves is a falsity, to an extent...a throw-back from the old the days where one couldn't appreciate a dollar until one made a dollar...so forth and so on.
> 
> ...


I was an RA in college and I saw what a lot of other people saw and that is a trend for the students whose parents were paying for college to be less motivated than those who didn't have parents paying. However, I know plenty of exceptions on both sides of this as well. The above is probably true. In general if a person paying themselves didn't know what they wanted to do they may wait to attend. While someone whose parents are paying and who were always taught that college was just the next step may flounder more. This is, of course, generalities.

Now student's that go to college later in life tend to be a lot more focused. My husband being one example. (He did mess around and screw up even though he was paying himself the first time, but did great the second time.)

I do plan on encouraging a gap year for my kids, especially as they are on the young side for their grade. I think a lot of kids could benefit from a break. I also intend to encourage a break between undergrad and graduate school. At least work in their field for a bit before getting further education in it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I've met quite a few who are working in the fields they got their degree in. What i haven't talked to are a lot of people who are doing so, and happy about it. The ones that are usually have at least a Masters, and generally changed tracks, at least somewhat, between their Bachelors and their Masters. I just haven't met that many people who chose a field, got their Bachelors degree in that field, and then happily went to work in that same field. Most of them either changed tracks somewhere along the way, or felt trapped and stuck it out, but don't like it, in their originally chosen field. (Obviously, it's not everyone, but it's what I've seen the most.)


I don't think changing tracks means that a field wasn't right. It just means that you changed tracks.

I got my degree in Biology planning to go to Medical school. I discovered research and decided to do that with my degree instead. I like bench top level work and so have no interest in a Masters or Doctorate in my field but am interested in doing something different now that I've been doing it for 10 years. I thought about looking back at medicine as either a doctor or a PA but ended up deciding to go into teaching instead, something that absolutely did not interest me until just a couple of years ago. I'm in the process of applying to a Masters program in eduction.

That doesn't mean that Biology wasn't the right major for me or that I haven't enjoyed doing research for as long as I have. It just means that 36 year old me is a different person than 22 year old me and that's awesome.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

It's important for kids to understand that their choices now do not have to be forever. I think it makes it harder when faced with decisions they deem unchangeable.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JollyGG*
> 
> I don't think changing tracks means that a field wasn't right. It just means that you changed tracks.
> 
> ...


----------



## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> And, what if they "work on getting an idea", and still don't have one? I'm in my 40s, and know lots of people my age who have no idea what they want to be "when they grow up". I know people even older who also never figured it out. My mom and dad understood it, becuase they were both the same way. But, I've always wondered how parents who believe in plans handle people like me. Some of us just don't have anything we really want to do.


Ugh. Well, that was me. My parents both did well in college, both were teachers. I 'floundered' in community college for two years. My mom, who had a drinking problem, had to get buzzed in order to sit down and tell me it was OK with her if I didn't go to college. The underlying message that was silently radiating from her was of profound disappointment.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> Maybe it's just the people I hang out with, but in my experience *getting a degree and working in that field is the rule, not the exception*. All of DH's friends went to private schools and out of the ones he still talks to only one isn't working in their degree field. That one is back getting his masters in the field though. I went to a public university and at least half of my group ended up in their degree field. I hung out with all teaching and pharmacy majors though. I'd be willing to bet it wouldn't be the same with liberal arts, theater, etc majors.


This has been my experience as well, but I wonder if that is because I know so many people who are either in engineering (mostly software, but also some mechanical) or medicine (nursing, some teaching, pharmacy). I wonder if degrees you have to go out of your way to get (you don't just end up with a pharmacy degree, for example, like you can with a psychology or sociology degree) with a lot of requirements only draw people who really know what they want to do. Meanwhile, people who arent' sure tend to get more liberal arts degrees and then not really going into that field because they weren't *really* interested in that field in teh first place--- it was just a fall back.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JollyGG*
> 
> I was an RA in college and I saw what a lot of other people saw and that is a trend for the students whose parents were paying for college to be less motivated than those who didn't have parents paying. However, I know plenty of exceptions on both sides of this as well. The above is probably true. In general if a person paying themselves didn't know what they wanted to do they may wait to attend. While someone whose parents are paying and who were always taught that college was just the next step may flounder more. This is, of course, generalities.


I wonder, though, if what you're really seeing is the following:

Who goes to college if their parents are pressuring them to/ paying for it:

1) People who really want to go to college.

2) People who don't have anything else to do.

3) People who don't want to go but for some reason feel unable to get out of it.

Who goes to college if their parents are not supportive either financially or emotionally:

1) People who really want to go to college

So, if your child is in that "group 1" category, it's probably not going to matter who pays for the education--- they WANT it and will do well. If, meanwhile, your child is only there *because* you're making them, you're going to see a lot less motivation. The CAUSE of the lack of motivation is not the paying, it's just that if you weren't paying they wouldn't be there at all.

This is just a theory, but it makes a lot of sense given my experiences (DP knows a lot of people who had parents who paid for their Ivy League educations (he does not have one) and were VERY motivated, but if their parents hadn't paid they would have also been there and VERY motivated).


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## jillybean720 (Aug 28, 2011)

I'm still in my 20s, so I wasn't in college all that long ago. My parents did not have college money saved up or anything - they took out some loans, and I took out some loans (we ar eboth still paying them off), and I worked throughout all of college, usually 2 or 3 part-time jobs at a time. I was undeclared for my first year (maybe even two years?), and never figured out exactly what I wanted to do, so, no, I don't believe the financial aspect is necessarily tied to motivation. I went to college because I didn't know what else to do and knew I didn't want to end up working retail forever (and, quite frankly, even some retail establishments require an undergraduate degree for management positions).

I got a pretty generic degree - Business Administration. Oh, and I went to a private college 300 miles away from home (in another state), and it was still cheaper than if I'd gone to a state school in my home state, so don't get hung up on the idea that private instutions are automatically more expensive.

I hope to be able to financially support my children's college educations more than my parents were able to do for me. They did what they could, and I appreciate that very much, but my focus while I was in school was scheduling my classes to allow me to WORK more hours, and that actually resulted in my not being able to take some of the classes I would have liked to have taken. It also meant I spent all four years working and working and working without so much a single vacation or abroad experience and very little time for any extra curricular activities. I'm going to spend the rest of my life working full-time - I want my kids to be able to have SOME enjoyable experiences while still in college!


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

YAY... a post that solidifies my lack of hope...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jillybean720*
> 
> I'm still in my 20s, so I wasn't in college all that long ago. My parents did not have college money saved up or anything - they took out some loans, and I took out some loans (we ar eboth still paying them off), and I worked throughout all of college, usually 2 or 3 part-time jobs at a time. I was undeclared for my first year (maybe even two years?), and never figured out exactly what I wanted to do, so, no, I don't believe the financial aspect is necessarily tied to motivation. I went to college because I didn't know what else to do and knew I didn't want to end up working retail forever (and, quite frankly, even some retail establishments require an undergraduate degree for management positions).
> 
> ...


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## AnnaBees Mama (Jul 9, 2011)

We do have a savings account for DD. Every pay period, we stick $10-$20 in it. All of her birthday/Christmas/special occasion money goes in it. The "savings" portion our kids' own jobs may go in there too.

Our future kids will have their own account too.

The account is for special financial needs. It might be used to pay for a big school trip, financing an important extracurricular activity, and will be used to *help* with college.

DH and I will set ourselves up as a financial board, and the kiddos will have to petition us for money. It would not be just given. They would have to explain why they need this money instead of coming up with their own, how precisely it will be used, and how they will *reimburse* us (goods... services.... currency). We'd lay out stipulations.Then we'd negotiate.

For college, they will be responsible for their first year--- some how, some way. They might choose to work during high school to pay their way. They might choose to absorb themselves in extracurriculars and community service; and maintain excellent grades during their secondary education to hopefully earn scholarships and grant money. They might just take out a loan. Whatever they do, it will be their responsibility, not ours, to cover that cost.

For the second year, they may petition for a "grant" from their savings account, money that would not have to be paid back (unless, later, we determined it should for whatever reason) We would look at the previous year's grades, productivity, and level of commitment; and take into consideration our child's intentions and the actual cost for the upcoming year. We may finance all or part of that year's education.

The following years we will do the same.

We just want them to be personally invested in their education. We want them to WANT it. If they don't want it enough to do what they need to do to make it happen, then it *shouldn't* happen, period. We are just as happy and proud of our kids working and living doing whatever, as we would be with them choosing school. We just want them to follow their own path, whatever that is.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnaBees Mama*
> 
> For the second year, they may petition for a "grant" from their savings account, money that would not have to be paid back (unless, later, we determined it should for whatever reason) We would look at the previous year's grades, productivity, and level of commitment; and take into consideration our child's intentions and the actual cost for the upcoming year. We may finance all or part of that year's education.
> 
> ...


So, if they choose not to go to college or their "grant application" isn't accepted, what happens to that money?


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## chenchen (Dec 30, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> chenchen&#8230;.I don't think it has to be all or nothing.
> 
> You could pay for their tuition and room and board - but leave any spending money up to them, alternately you could pay a % of all costs (say 75%). They will still have to figure out how the pieces come together, but will not be burdened by huge debt.


You're right. It's good to be reminded that we don't need all the future's answers right this minute. Hopefully we'll know what to do when the time comes. Preparing financially now leaves open all possibilities down the line. Better safe than sorry, I suppose. Thanks.


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## AnnaBees Mama (Jul 9, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
> 
> So, if they choose not to go to college or their "grant application" isn't accepted, what happens to that money?


I'm sensing snark. I'm not sure why your tone is as such, maybe I am misreading it since it is hard to detect tone in writing sometimes. Maybe I miscommunicated about the process. It's not as formal or as cold as it sounds in writing. It's not like we will stamp "rejected" on a piece of paper and turn our shattered-dreamed broken hearted young adult away.

The money can be used to help start up a business, to make an investment in property, to finance technical school, or some other endeavor that can be a pricey but essential step in whatever path our kid chooses. I focused on college because that is what this particular thread is about...

Really, the money is "ours" saved for the intention to help out our daughter with the pricier goals as she grows up. It is not our daughter's to do willy nilly with which is why she would have to go through us to access it, and why we would have a process to determine if footing a bill is a healthy and productive idea for our kid. We want to see that she is commuted and invested in whatever she chooses to do before we put carefully saved money toward endeavors.

Eventually, at some undetermined point in her adulthood, the money will be hers to do whatever with.


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

What kind of bank account is this? Is it in your name, or is it a custodial account in the child's name? The kind of college savings account I set up is in my son's name, but I have control over it while he's a minor.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnaBees Mama*
> 
> We do have a savings account for DD. Every pay period, we stick $10-$20 in it. All of her birthday/Christmas/special occasion money goes in it. The "savings" portion our kids' own jobs may go in there too.
> 
> ...


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

We aren't saving for our kids college, and are just going to have to rely on financial aid. We live in a high cost of living area and can barely make rent. Maybe I'll go back to work or something.


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## AnnaBees Mama (Jul 9, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *captain optimism*
> 
> What kind of bank account is this? Is it in your name, or is it a custodial account in the child's name? The kind of college savings account I set up is in my son's name, but I have control over it while he's a minor.


We opened it as a custodial account when she was born, but devised our rough game plan after the fact. Obviously we will no longer have rights to the account once she turns 18, so we will be taking her name off so it is legally DH's and my money. Though her name won't be on the account, it is still intended to be used for her things so we won't touch it otherwise. I hope that makes sense, I know the references to "ours" and "hers" might be confusing.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnaBees Mama*
> 
> We opened it as a custodial account when she was born, but devised our rough game plan after the fact. Obviously we will no longer have rights to the account once she turns 18, so we will be taking her name off so it is legally DH's and my money. Though her name won't be on the account, it is still intended to be used for her things so we won't touch it otherwise. I hope that makes sense, I know the references to "ours" and "hers" might be confusing.


Sorry, I'm smack dab in the middle of a raging flu and should be in bed, but this post caught my eye and I feel compelled to insert my personal experience. Parents certainly have all the rights to financially plan according to how they see fit, but this particular post reminds me of the importance of setting up a trust for DD as opposed to "it will be yours when you're 18" type of situation. Anna Bees, you mentioned in a previous post that your child's gift money, etc. goes into the savings account. I'm just curious why you believe it is yours? I mean, I can see you acting as trustee of her funds until 18, but just can't wrap my head around why it is your money until she is of legal age?

The reason this bristles me is that my grandparents put a considerable amount of money in the bank for me when I was a minor. My bio-mom, Dad's ex-wife, fell in love with another man and used the money in my account to fund her wants, needs and desires. She was able to do this because she was named a custodian on the account. I don't mean to be all negative and stuff, but setting up a trust allows a legal recourse if one parent or custodian should hit the road with the cash. Once I bequeath money to DD, it is hers. When she receives gifts, it is hers. Funny story, but DH and I were completely out of cash this past Sunday and we asked DD if we could borrow $10 until we went to the bank. She obliged and we handed her an IOU. We paid her back. My parents actually borrowed money from me when I was a teen (I had a sizable account from working, saving, gifts, etc.). They needed some additional cash for a down payment on the house and I agreed to help fund that. We entered into an agreement and all went well. Sounds weird but that's why I think it is important to differentiate between parental money and child money. Just my opinion.


----------



## AnnaBees Mama (Jul 9, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> Sorry, I'm smack dab in the middle of a raging flu and should be in bed, but this post caught my eye and I feel compelled to insert my personal experience. Parents certainly have all the rights to financially plan according to how they see fit, but this particular post reminds me of the importance of setting up a trust for DD as opposed to "it will be yours when you're 18" type of situation. Anna Bees, you mentioned in a previous post that your child's gift money, etc. goes into the savings account. I'm just curious why you believe it is yours? I mean, I can see you acting as trustee of her funds until 18, but just can't wrap my head around why it is your money until she is of legal age?
> 
> The reason this bristles me is that my grandparents put a considerable amount of money in the bank for me when I was a minor. My bio-mom, Dad's ex-wife, fell in love with another man and used the money in my account to fund her wants, needs and desires. She was able to do this because she was named a custodian on the account. I don't mean to be all negative and stuff, but setting up a trust allows a legal recourse if one parent or custodian should hit the road with the cash. Once I bequeath money to DD, it is hers. When she receives gifts, it is hers. Funny story, but DH and I were completely out of cash this past Sunday and we asked DD if we could borrow $10 until we went to the bank. She obliged and we handed her an IOU. We paid her back. My parents actually borrowed money from me when I was a teen (I had a sizable account from working, saving, gifts, etc.). They needed some additional cash for a down payment on the house and I agreed to help fund that. We entered into an agreement and all went well. Sounds weird but that's why I think it is important to differentiate between parental money and child money. Just my opinion.


Ah, ok, I see what you are saying. Makes sense. I'm putting DD to bed and will reply more when she's asleep.


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> Sorry, I'm smack dab in the middle of a raging flu and should be in bed, but this post caught my eye and I feel compelled to insert my personal experience. Parents certainly have all the rights to financially plan according to how they see fit, but this particular post reminds me of the importance of setting up a trust for DD as opposed to "it will be yours when you're 18" type of situation. Anna Bees, you mentioned in a previous post that your child's gift money, etc. goes into the savings account. I'm just curious why you believe it is yours? I mean, I can see you acting as trustee of her funds until 18, but just can't wrap my head around why it is your money until she is of legal age?
> 
> The reason this bristles me is that my grandparents put a considerable amount of money in the bank for me when I was a minor. My bio-mom, Dad's ex-wife, fell in love with another man and used the money in my account to fund her wants, needs and desires. She was able to do this because she was named a custodian on the account. I don't mean to be all negative and stuff, but setting up a trust allows a legal recourse if one parent or custodian should hit the road with the cash. Once I bequeath money to DD, it is hers. When she receives gifts, it is hers. Funny story, but DH and I were completely out of cash this past Sunday and we asked DD if we could borrow $10 until we went to the bank. She obliged and we handed her an IOU. We paid her back. My parents actually borrowed money from me when I was a teen (I had a sizable account from working, saving, gifts, etc.). They needed some additional cash for a down payment on the house and I agreed to help fund that. We entered into an agreement and all went well. Sounds weird but that's why I think it is important to differentiate between parental money and child money. Just my opinion.


I completely agree.

If I were in that scenario, as the child, I would cash my own paychecks and keep the cash hidden in a shoebox until I was old enough to have my own bank account. I would also pay for every single thing on my own from the time I had a job. Those strings are not worth it.


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## AnnaBees Mama (Jul 9, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. We are scrapping the plan, because it is obvious it was heading us in a direction we did not want to go. We definitely want the money given to her from other people, and earned by her, to remain HERS, period, no strings attached. We NEVER intended on our set up to be a carrot-dangling scenario (I'm having all sorts of terrible flashbacks from the drama tv shows...), but we could see how the arrangement could bite us all in the butts, relationally and legally. (ETA: we would also never compel our children to give *us* part of *their* money to put in an account under *our* name. We were thinking we would strongly encourage her to put a percentage in this account since it was intended for her use later on---- but with that account being in our name---- even though WE know us well enough to know we would never touch it, nobody else would. And that's dangerous and super shady.)

I'm not quite sure where to go from here, though. It's obvious we need to keep the money her dad and I save separate from the money she is given from others. I suppose, stick the gifted money in the custodial account until she arrives at an age where she is aware of money and desires to manage it (she's now 16 months)?


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

Oh, good, I'm glad you saw the difference between the custodial account and the grant funding scenario.

I think the idea of two accounts is a good one. You might get a better deal on the taxes on an UTMA or custodial account than on a regular old savings account or CD, but you're paying for the right to both say no to things you don't want to fund, and yes to surprising your daughter when she wants something she can't afford, like a Master's degree.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnaBees Mama*
> 
> Thanks for the feedback everyone. We are scrapping the plan, because it is obvious it was heading us in a direction we did not want to go. We definitely want the money given to her from other people, and earned by her, to remain HERS, period, no strings attached. We NEVER intended on our set up to be a carrot-dangling scenario (I'm having all sorts of terrible flashbacks from the drama tv shows...), but we could see how the arrangement could bite us all in the butts, relationally and legally. (ETA: we would also never compel our children to give *us* part of *their* money to put in an account under *our* name. We were thinking we would strongly encourage her to put a percentage in this account since it was intended for her use later on---- but with that account being in our name---- even though WE know us well enough to know we would never touch it, nobody else would. And that's dangerous and super shady.)
> 
> I'm not quite sure where to go from here, though. It's obvious we need to keep the money her dad and I save separate from the money she is given from others. I suppose, stick the gifted money in the custodial account until she arrives at an age where she is aware of money and desires to manage it (she's now 16 months)?


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> YAY... a post that solidifies my lack of hope...


Have you seen the book "Debt Free U"?

Our library has a copy and I've seen it in bookstores as well. It's a good read. It has a lot of information in it and makes a solid case for going to community college for the first two years.

I highly recommend reading it for any parent who is concerned about this topic.

We are closer to this stage of life than most on the board (my kids are in 8th and 9th grades) and the whole thing looks different to me than it did when they were little. It may look different again in a couple of years.

One of our DDs will most likely get some very nice scholarships. May be not a full ride, but something helpful. Our other DD will be expensive to get through school -- she is most likely not scholarship material, may need to take a light load (she is both gifted and has special needs,) and might not be able to work much, if at all, while attending college. Getting her an appropriate education is challenging. We are going to do what both of our kids need to reach their potential. Our kids aren't going to need the same things from us.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnaBees Mama*
> 
> I'm sensing snark. I'm not sure why your tone is as such, maybe I am misreading it since it is hard to detect tone in writing sometimes.


I'm just going to let this go. If I expressed snark, I think the reasons have already been gone over by others. I was actually attempting to avoid snark, though.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnaBees Mama*
> 
> I'm not quite sure where to go from here, though. It's obvious we need to keep the money her dad and I save separate from the money she is given from others. I suppose, stick the gifted money in the custodial account until she arrives at an age where she is aware of money and desires to manage it (she's now 16 months)?


That's a hard one. Since we are specifically saving for our kids' college we do put it in a 529 plan. Since you're more open to them using the money for a business or the like that wouldn't really work. At the same time, if it is going to be used for education it is financially beneficial (if finacial aid is a consideration in your situation) for the money to be in the parents name.

Hmmm... what is a good savings vehicle for a significant amount of money for a child?


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> The reason this bristles me is that my grandparents put a considerable amount of money in the bank for me when I was a minor. My bio-mom, Dad's ex-wife, fell in love with another man and used the money in my account to fund her wants, needs and desires. She was able to do this because she was named a custodian on the account. I don't mean to be all negative and stuff, but setting up a trust allows a legal recourse if one parent or custodian should hit the road with the cash.


I'm sorry you had a shitty experience. I have had the opposite experience with my joint account with my dad! (it was opened as a custodial account 25 years ago or something like that, and I have not taken his name off of it) I still use the account very little, and he only has access to the savings account, not the checking portion. I use it to pay him for my phone (we're on a family plan, its much cheaper), and I put the money in the savings account, and call him to say "Ok, the money is there, take it out" - he would never touch my money otherwise. He's also the only one named on the account other than me - my mom is not named for some reason (although it would probably be fine if she were, it just didn't happen that way, and they've been married for 35years in August).


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## jillybean720 (Aug 28, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> YAY... a post that solidifies my lack of hope...


Why do you say that?

While I do wish I'd had more freedom to be a college kid during college instead of stressing about money and working all the time, it wasn't all bad. I'm very financially responsible and, despite "only" having a generic undergrad degree, I started earning a six-figure salary at age 28 (I'm now 29). On the down side, I think I've been shaped into a workaholic - I have a very hard time tearing myself away from work to try to take vacations or breaks, and I sometimes take work issues too personally.

We all do the best we can, and we all want the best for our kids, but that "best" is different for every parent - and for every child.


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## KSLaura (Jan 22, 2007)

OP- Just curious, what kind of scholarships are available to kids of disabled vets? I did a search and it didn't come up with much. Is a specific percentage required (30% disabled, service connected)? I definately want to look into this for my kids! 

I agree with certifications being very important in the IT world. If my kids choose IT, I will definately push them towards as many certifications as possilbe. Where I work, though, a 4-year degree is becoming more of a requirement. This is in addition to the certifications. Security clearance also helps.

We are saving a little each month in a 529 for each kid. I know this won't come close to funding all of their college expenses, but I'm hoping it will cover a large chunk. My kids are 3 and 6 and they both know that college is expected. They will likely have to take out some loans (as I did), but that is ok.


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