# I've created a monster



## bodhitree (May 12, 2008)

My 16mo DD is driving me nuts. She wants my constant, undivided attention and is usually not willing (or able?) to entertain herself for more than a minute or two. When I try to wash dishes or cook dinner, I can work for about a minute and a half before she starts fussing, crying, and grabbing at me. Sometimes wearing her on my back helps, but sometimes it doesn't, and I have one bad shoulder that is currently being made worse by cosleeping and side-lying nursing, so wearing her is not always comfortable for me. I try to distract and redirect her by giving her different things to play with, putting on music, opening the back door so she can go outside...all of those things only help for a couple of minutes, then she's back to grabbing at me and yelling. I've also made sure that she gets plenty of my attention at other times. Every day, we spend lots of time playing in her room, sitting in the rocker and reading books, and doing other things together that she enjoys. So it's not like I'm expecting her to just go along with my agenda all day every day, but I do need her to be able to entertain herself sometimes!

I got "Positive Discipline for the First Three Years" out of the library, hoping for some help, but that book basically says that if your child is "demanding and dependent," it's because of cosleeping.







So even though I know that's BS, I'm still worried, in the back of my mind, that my very responsive parenting up until this point has made her this way. For what it's worth, she's always been on the high-needs end of the spectrum. But I'm sure lots of people would say that's just because I've allowed her to be that way.

Can I get some advice and perspective from experienced mamas? What should I do when she seems to be doing her very best to prevent me from getting done what needs to be done? Is this normal, or have I managed to spoil my kid?


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## Lil'M (Oct 27, 2002)

Dd2 was really similar and because Dd1 was pretty easy going as a baby/toddler, I knew it wasn't my parenting style, but just her personality. Don't blame yourself. She is "demanding" what she needs because she is just a more intense personality and needs more from you now. I will say that at this point (9 1/2 years old), she is a very loving, delightful child who is quite independent but still attached. I think if I didn't respond to her high needs when she was younger, she would not be as well adjusted now.

To get things done, I had to be really creative about my time. For dinner, we ate a lot of one dish meals (lasagna, quiche, crock pot stew, etc.) that could be made ahead at a more convenient time ie: first thing in the a.m. when she was still sleeping, on the weekend, etc. Even now, I have the habit of prepping tomorrow's dinner after cleaning up tonight's dinner, because at that time everyone is happy and fed and dh keeps everyone out of my way.

I did wear my dd2 a lot. My backpack carrier got a lot of miles on it, even inside the house. I remember folding laundry on the dining room table with her on my back because she otherwise WOULD NOT let me do it. I know you can't wear it too much because of the pain, but maybe just saving it for when you really need to get things done.

For night nursing, she's big enough to do other positions besides side lying if it is painful for you. Can she crawl over to your breast and nurse from on top?

One thing I found about nighttime is that she woke up MORE because she was next to me. So we put a mattress on her floor and I would nurse her to sleep. If I didn't fall asleep then I could sneak out to my room and she would sleep a lot longer before her next awakening.

Hope some of these tips work for you!


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## pinky (Nov 21, 2001)

She is so little. 16 months is basically just a baby that can walk around. You haven't created a monster in any way--everything you've described sounds totally normal for a child of that age. It's just that our cultural norms for small child behavior are so screwed up!


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## BellaClaudia (Aug 1, 2008)

I totally agree with the previous poster. I know how it feels as my DD was just as you described. She was very attached and very smart and she just wanted me all the time. The 16 mo is not the age that she can play so much on her own, just it was not case in our case.
I learned to work around it as sometime it was just as frustrating.
As much as I don't like too much tv I realized that the playing a dvd while
I had to cook dinner or do the loundry was not too much of a damage
and especially since I discovered smart baby dvds , there is whole bunch of those series, baby genius baby einstein etc.. and they are really just showing
the life objects, places and words so that is not like watching some brain numbing cartoons.. also we like dora as it is just very peaceful series.

My little one would just watch a dvd while I wouild do something I needed
since I had no access to any mother's helper, family member or anybody who
could just accompany her as for her it was sometime about me playing with her and osmetimes about me being just next to her.

I respected her need but then again, I had to do something sometime and this was the lesser evil.

I also bought the thing that would allow her to play in the kitchen
while I was cooking and so she could mix something or mess with
something on the countertop or draw or whatever or finger paint
right next to me and she could see all the action so she would not
be left behind and of course my arms were killing me to hold her close
allt he time.

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...learning+tower

this thing was pricy to begin with but worth every penny for us. I sold it
subsequently for 3/4 of the original price so it was really good solution.

Hope this helps and again, you did not create monster, you just have a child with certain type of personality, besides you are great mom and you
provided her lots of attention and care. It is just that we live in the
socitety where moms are oftentimes alone all day and have no tribal
help of another pair of hands to entertain or take care of a baby while
mother does anyting and carrying a child is not an option for ev eryone
(I haver really bad back problems).

I know how frustrating it feels at times but then again this is really natural and normal for a baby to want mother all the time at this age still.

She wants you because you are providing all love, care security and
she wants to learn from you.

It will change. When she will be developmentally ready to play longer then you can utilize this. Till then try to work around it keeping your sanity.

Hugs.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

No it's just the age. She loves you, you are the most entertaining person/toy







in her life. Nothing else is as much fun as you.

I did this hidden surprises thing and it worked rather well (although you can't use it all the time or it gets old).

As for cooking, if you are okay with a mess, hook her up with a mixing bowl on the floor (unless you have a learning tower) and some water and measuring cups and a few toys. You'll have a lot of water on the floor (put down towels) but she'll let you cook dinner.

Another good idea is a sensory box with birdseed or rice.

16 months is a little young for this, but for DD, I saved all my empty spice jars. I fill them with flour and sugar and then gave DD old cookie sprinkles. Add water and some mixing cups and DD makes 'muffins' with me. Again, it makes a mess (Sprinkles all over the floor along with sugar) but no whining and clinging.

The key to 16 months is 'bright shiny object parenting'. You need to have, at all times, at least 3 ideas of really really interesting things for her to do to keep her busy. This keeps you one step ahead and keeps her from trying to climb inside your skin.

V


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## healthy momma (May 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
As for cooking, if you are okay with a mess, hook her up with a mixing bowl on the floor (unless you have a learning tower) and some water and measuring cups and a few toys.

I highly recommend the learning tower. I waited until DS was 18 months not sure if it would be worth the money but after getting it I wished I'd gotten it a couple months earlier. He LOVED being up at the counter with me. It changed food prep time from a major headache to a lot of fun.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Just wanted to chime in that it's not you, it's the age. 18 months is the peak age for separation anxiety for many kids -- and in my experience 14-20 months are the 'bad' periods.

You've gotten lots of great ideas. I just wanted to say: Don't worry, she'll outgrow it. The other thing is that don't be afraid of her crying. Your job is shifting from meeting her every need to helping her distinguish her needs from her wants. Right now they feel the same to her, and she's got some very powerful emotions associated with those wants. Your job is now to help her through those powerful emotions, rather than stop everything you're doing to prevent crying.


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## Summersquash (Jul 23, 2009)

Oh, my DD was like that too. I have to say that at 21 months it has gotten a LOT better. She can entertain herself for a short while as long as I am in the same room.









Everyone else's ideas were great. I also found that just talking with her and narrating what I was doing had interest for her. Such as, Mama is making our lunch now. Here's Mama taking out the bread for a sandwich. Now Mama is getting out some sliced turkey. Would you like to eat some turkey for your lunch, too? Around that age I think my DD would sit in the kitchen, fuss about in the cabinet of plastic bowls and odds and ends that I made for her, and "chat" back to me for 5 minutes or so while I made lunch or whatever.

It DOES get better though.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

It's not about being AP, IME, but just personality. My 4th is this way and it is ROUGH. Good luck, OP!


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

this is NORMAL. way over the top normal.

plese remember she is getting ready to hit 18 months which is a HUGE time of change for many kids. it is a HUGE developmental milestone time coming up. physical mental and even speech explosions.

this is the philosophy i worked with.

my dd needs nurturing after being in a soft cozy warm place for 9 months. after she is born she needs to feel that comfort. now her personality will guide her how long she needs that. 2 years? 5 years? 7 years? i know if i give it to her NOW she is set for life.

and that's exactly what happened. the child who would not even allow an inch between us is now not just an independent kid, but super confident too.

we STILL cosleep and still nurse. but for her group of friends she stands out at how she can handle life much better when her friends reduce to tears or fear.


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## swd12422 (Nov 9, 2007)

No, you haven't created a monster! My son was the same way from infanthood til around 2-2.5. He's only just recently started "leaving me alone" and it only lasts for a few minutes. The difference is that now he is big enough to stand on a step stool and watch without getting into too much trouble while I work, so I can cook. I don't know if this is something you can/want to try, but could she stand on a chair next to you and play with frozen peas or something while you cook? DS usually gets his own little bowl, spoon and measuring cups, and a little bit of whatever I'm making (flour, spices, usually the dry stuff or the stuff that's edible raw) and he can mix, pour and eat as I make dinner.

At that age, he was just starting to figure things out and wanted to "help" or do it himself a lot, so this helps him feel that he is participating and not left out.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

That's an age where they really like company. They like to have other kids to play with. (although, that can become a monster too, with all the bickering they do at this age too)

Toddlers just have so much energy, and not a lot of ways to get it out of their system. It's no fun to play alone.

It sounds insane, but is there anybody who might be looking for a stay at home mom to watch one other toddler for half days? Maybe you could post something on Craigslist. Especially if the other child/children are only there a couple days a week, or half days. It gives your daughter the social outlet (plus the fighting... don't forget the shrieking fights) And, then she's tired by naptime.

Eventually they work out their arguments. But, they love each other and have so much fun. Having more than one, gives you some down time.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lil'M* 









Dd2 was really similar and because Dd1 was pretty easy going as a baby/toddler, I knew it wasn't my parenting style, but just her personality. Don't blame yourself. She is "demanding" what she needs because she is just a more intense personality and needs more from you now. I will say that at this point (9 1/2 years old), she is a very loving, delightful child who is quite independent but still attached. I think if I didn't respond to her high needs when she was younger, she would not be as well adjusted now.

To get things done, I had to be really creative about my time. For dinner, we ate a lot of one dish meals (lasagna, quiche, crock pot stew, etc.) that could be made ahead at a more convenient time

<snip>

I did wear my dd2 a lot. My backpack carrier got a lot of miles on it, even inside the house. I remember folding laundry on the dining room table with her on my back because she otherwise WOULD NOT let me do it. I know you can't wear it too much because of the pain, but maybe just saving it for when you really need to get things done.

I could have written this, save for my intense one is 4 now, and my easygoing one was a son 2 yrs older.

I wore DD at least 3-4 hours a day, upwards of 8 hours sometimes, from about 6 months through 16-18 months. Now at 4 years old, she is still attached to me, but separates easily and occupies herself when necessary, etc. etc. I do however also agree with Lynn above who said she's getting to the age where you're going to start to want to gently nudge her from want=need to learning to wait sometimes, even if she's unhappy about it. And beleive me, my daughter was VOCALLY unhappy about some things, but such is the way of growing up.

Hang in there!!


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## nina_yyc (Nov 5, 2006)

Can you try to ease her into playing alone when you are not doing anything especially pressing and work up to longer periods of time? Not sure if it would work but possibly worth a try. DD just sat on the kitchen counter with her back on a cabinet and watched at that age.

I think personality has tons to do with it...DD was super clingy and DS is totally chill so far, and both co-slept. Is it possible though that the cosleeping criticism triggers something for you, since you are nursing your baby in a way that is uncomfortable and affects your heath? I didn't nightwean until 2yo but in retrospect I think it was because of my own guilt and DD might have been ready earlier. You know your child and you know your own body so I'm not going to give you any advice, just putting nightweaning on the table.


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## bodhitree (May 12, 2008)

Thank you so much, mamas. It means a lot to me to have someplace where I can come for feedback where I don't have to worry about people recommending harsh, punitive, or otherwise unacceptable methods of dealing with this kind of issue. And it helps a LOT to hear that so many others have had this kind of experience too.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Lil'M*











Dd2 was really similar and because Dd1 was pretty easy going as a baby/toddler, I knew it wasn't my parenting style, but just her personality. Don't blame yourself. She is "demanding" what she needs because she is just a more intense personality and needs more from you now. I will say that at this point (9 1/2 years old), she is a very loving, delightful child who is quite independent but still attached. I think if I didn't respond to her high needs when she was younger, she would not be as well adjusted now.

To get things done, I had to be really creative about my time. For dinner, we ate a lot of one dish meals (lasagna, quiche, crock pot stew, etc.) that could be made ahead at a more convenient time ie: first thing in the a.m. when she was still sleeping, on the weekend, etc. Even now, I have the habit of prepping tomorrow's dinner after cleaning up tonight's dinner, because at that time everyone is happy and fed and dh keeps everyone out of my way.


Thanks for the reassurance that it's just her personality and not anything about me. And yeah, I need to get a lot better again about prepping meals ahead of time. I'm going to work that into my menu planning and try to do as much chopping, etc ahead of time as I can.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pinky*


She is so little. 16 months is basically just a baby that can walk around. You haven't created a monster in any way--everything you've described sounds totally normal for a child of that age. It's just that our cultural norms for small child behavior are so screwed up!


Yes! Thank you. The only other young children in my family belong to my brother and SIL, who push their kids into independence super-early and basically just shout and punish them into submission when they're acting out because their needs aren't being met. I'm the only one in my family who has a problem with that. It's hard sometimes to have the confidence to go against the way that most people in our culture and in my family think you should do things.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BellaClaudia*


I learned to work around it as sometime it was just as frustrating.
As much as I don't like too much tv I realized that the playing a dvd while
I had to cook dinner or do the loundry was not too much of a damage
and especially since I discovered smart baby dvds , there is whole bunch of those series, baby genius baby einstein etc.. and they are really just showing
the life objects, places and words so that is not like watching some brain numbing cartoons.. also we like dora as it is just very peaceful series.

My little one would just watch a dvd while I wouild do something I needed
since I had no access to any mother's helper, family member or anybody who
could just accompany her as for her it was sometime about me playing with her and osmetimes about me being just next to her.

I respected her need but then again, I had to do something sometime and this was the lesser evil.

I also bought the thing that would allow her to play in the kitchen
while I was cooking and so she could mix something or mess with
something on the countertop or draw or whatever or finger paint
right next to me and she could see all the action so she would not
be left behind and of course my arms were killing me to hold her close
allt he time.

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...learning+tower

this thing was pricy to begin with but worth every penny for us. I sold it
subsequently for 3/4 of the original price so it was really good solution.


I've been really against any TV for my DD so far, but honestly, when I have an awful day and I just need us both to sit quietly and do nothing, I do put on some TV for us to watch. It would probably make more sense to get out ahead of it and let her watch a little so I can get things done BEFORE I start flipping out.







And I really want one of those Learning Tower things. I was thinking it would be good for Christmas, but I probably can't make it that long without it, so hopefully in the next couple of months we'll be able to afford it.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Violet2*


The key to 16 months is 'bright shiny object parenting'. You need to have, at all times, at least 3 ideas of really really interesting things for her to do to keep her busy. This keeps you one step ahead and keeps her from trying to climb inside your skin.

V


That's a good way of putting it. I already do try to distract her with bright shiny objects, I just get tired of having to find a new one every minute or two. But I just need to accept that that's how it is for now.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LynnS6*


Just wanted to chime in that it's not you, it's the age. 18 months is the peak age for separation anxiety for many kids -- and in my experience 14-20 months are the 'bad' periods.

You've gotten lots of great ideas. I just wanted to say: Don't worry, she'll outgrow it. The other thing is that don't be afraid of her crying. Your job is shifting from meeting her every need to helping her distinguish her needs from her wants. Right now they feel the same to her, and she's got some very powerful emotions associated with those wants. Your job is now to help her through those powerful emotions, rather than stop everything you're doing to prevent crying.


Thank you, that's a really great perspective. I do try to talk her through it, for example: "I know you're frustrated because you want me to stop washing the dishes and play with you. I'm sorry you're frustrated, but I need to work for another minute." I figure that even if she doesn't completely understand the words, it isn't too soon to start talking about emotions and setting boundaries on what I am willing/able to do for her. I have to admit the crying is hard for me to take, though.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*


That's an age where they really like company. They like to have other kids to play with. (although, that can become a monster too, with all the bickering they do at this age too)

Toddlers just have so much energy, and not a lot of ways to get it out of their system. It's no fun to play alone.

It sounds insane, but is there anybody who might be looking for a stay at home mom to watch one other toddler for half days? Maybe you could post something on Craigslist. Especially if the other child/children are only there a couple days a week, or half days. It gives your daughter the social outlet (plus the fighting... don't forget the shrieking fights) And, then she's tired by naptime.

Eventually they work out their arguments. But, they love each other and have so much fun. Having more than one, gives you some down time.


I do have one really good friend with a daughter about the same age. We do frequent playdates, and the mom is looking for a part-time job, in which case I would be watching her daughter for a couple hours a day. I hope it works out! She has bills she needs to pay, and it would be good to have another little one around some of the time.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *nina_yyc*


Can you try to ease her into playing alone when you are not doing anything especially pressing and work up to longer periods of time? Not sure if it would work but possibly worth a try. DD just sat on the kitchen counter with her back on a cabinet and watched at that age.

I think personality has tons to do with it...DD was super clingy and DS is totally chill so far, and both co-slept. Is it possible though that the cosleeping criticism triggers something for you, since you are nursing your baby in a way that is uncomfortable and affects your heath? I didn't nightwean until 2yo but in retrospect I think it was because of my own guilt and DD might have been ready earlier. You know your child and you know your own body so I'm not going to give you any advice, just putting nightweaning on the table.


Thanks for being sensitive about offering sleep advice. Most people are so quick with the advice that I really appreciate it when people are sensitive about that. You are so right that the cosleeping criticism triggers some strong feelings for me. Mostly I think it's because DD has always been a terrible sleeper, and I feel like I've gotten a lot of blame (both silent and not-so-silent) for that. Most people think that if we just didn't cosleep and let her CIO instead, she would be a great sleeper. They don't understand that the reason we cosleep and nurse at night is BECAUSE she is a terrible sleeper and that's the way we all get the best sleep. I hate being so tired all the time and then having to deal with people telling me (or at least _thinking_ at me loudly enough that I can hear







) that it's because I'm doing everything wrong.

We actually did try night-weaning for a while. It was great for me, since DH did most of the nighttime duties and I got to sleep instead. It wasn't so great for him, since DD was awake for 2-3 hours in the middle of the night almost every night. So yeah, for now I'm just trying to minimize the damage to my shoulder by nursing on the other side about 90% of the time, which helps a lot.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that the reason this whole thing was bothering me so much was because I was having such a crisis of self-doubt about my decisions. So it helped a ton to have you all chime in and reassure me that it's just normal and my parenting style did not create this. Thanks again, everyone.


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## Iucounu (Jul 25, 2010)

It's not as bad as it sounds, really-- it's just that she has learned that she instantly gets what she wants, you, by complaining. It's obviously not separation anxiety, since she is right next to you when you're trying to cook, etc. Nor is this sort of whining behavior the natural behavior of a loving child; she quite simply has you wrapped around her little finger.

These problems happen when parents try to be too good to their kids. It's not that you're a bad mother, at all. But you need to realize that it's good for her to be more independent, and so you are actually not doing the right thing by instantly giving in to her every whim.

The fix is quite simple. Simply don't respond when she tries to control you in this way; don't scold her, or even pay her attention. Of course, she should have something else to play with at the time. When she screeches, simply don't respond. When she shows any tendency to start amusing herself, reward her with praise.

You have to be absolutely consistent in order to train her out of this sort of behavior. If you're not, and break down occasionally, it can take 10-20 times longer, or even more, to train her out of it-- that's because she will keep testing you, to see if _this_ time is the lucky time she can still control you.


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bodhitree* 
I'm still worried, in the back of my mind, that my very responsive parenting up until this point has made her this way. For what it's worth, she's always been on the high-needs end of the spectrum. But I'm sure lots of people would say that's just because I've allowed her to be that way.

Um, no. You didn't. Allow her to be this way, I mean. You're doing just fine, and she's just being the 16mo old that she is









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lil'M* 
I knew it wasn't my parenting style, but just her personality. Don't blame yourself. She is "demanding" what she needs because she is just a more intense personality and needs more from you now. I will say that at this point (9 1/2 years old), she is a very loving, delightful child who is quite independent but still attached. I think if I didn't respond to her high needs when she was younger, she would not be as well adjusted now.

This.
My ds is 9-1/2 now and I could have posted Lil'M's post, verbatim!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pinky* 
She is so little. 16 months is basically just a baby that can walk around. You haven't created a monster in any way--everything you've described sounds totally normal for a child of that age. It's just that our cultural norms for small child behavior are so screwed up!











I didn't even go through the whole thread. 'Nuff said. ITA about your dd being just a baby who's going through what she's going through.

I might advise getting a Kelty, or other backpack, that has the hip support thingy. It makes a HUGE difference and it totally eliminated shoulder and back pain!!

You are doing a FINE job, mama. She's just a baby, acting like a baby. A high-need one, but a baby all the same!
Maybe Louise Bates Ames' books will help? I only started reading them from "Your Three Year Old", but she has one for every age, named the same way. They describe perfectly age-appropriate behavior in those books. Made me feel totally normal.
Hang in there, mama


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

16 months is still just a baby. in fact having had 5 children all who have been 16 months by now... they don't really play alone.
i wouldn't recommend ignoring her at all. maybe having her "help" you when doing the dishes or letting her wash carrots when you cook. i have noticed they tend to want to be helpful at that age, sort of do what you are doing. and sometime.. the dishes have to wait and the dinner is a little late. lol
((hugs)) it does get better, they get more independent, but that is not now. i mean she can't do all sorts of things for herself yet.
you can't be "too good" to your kids. what it is called when you respond to them is parenting. it is a 24/7 job. and children are not puppies, they don't need training... they need parenting and love and attention. what they need is to be dependent especially at 16 months. they learn interdependence. which is a good thing.

h


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## Iucounu (Jul 25, 2010)

Continuing to instantly give in to this particular child's demands, dropping everything to accommodate her every whim, will make the problem worse. No child needs to be instantly tended to every time she screeches, for any reason. The OP started this thread in the knowledge that she had contributed to the situation (she quite obviously has). Neither of my two children has had such issues.

Will this child turn out to be a sociopath, or have other serious issues because she was allowed to continue to wrap her mother around her little finger? Most likely not; but there's no benefit in it whatsoever. The child is being encouraged in an overly anxious behavior pattern, which is having consequences for the parent as well.

One could of course justify any overly demanding behavior as a kid just "needing more love". I understand that a lot of you are coming at this from a perspective of some popular reading on attachment theory etc., but in this case the child is simply being overly demanding.


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## sebandg'smama (Oct 29, 2005)

One more voice encouraging you through this stage of childhood!
Having 2 children, I too echo the statement that temperament places a big part!

During that stage our quality of suppers dropped. Or we ate later when my dh came home from work and cooked.

-Melanie


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## midnightwriter (Jan 1, 2009)

> > Quote:
> >
> >
> > Originally Posted by *Iucounu*
> > ...


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## Iucounu (Jul 25, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *midnightwriter* 
But there's no "problem." This behaviour + personality is totally normal for this age.

No, it's not. Mothers everywhere are able to cook dinner despite having sixteen-month-olds, who miraculously turn out just fine.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *midnightwriter* 
The OP started this thread because she's been surrounded by non-responsive, punitive, controlling parents, and wanted opinions of people who strive to parent like she does.

And that's fine, and you're entitled to your opinion. Of course, one can have a wrong opinion, and this time you're wrong. It is simply not normal or desirable for a child to need coddling every minute of every day, upon demand.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *midnightwriter* 
This is a typical "mainstream" parenting philosophy. The OP came to this forum knowing it was an AP / GD forum.

Fair enough. And there is plenty to like about attachment parenting, when it is not misapplied or overdone. Look at all the posts in this very forum from people whose "gentle discipline", which is too often taken to mean complete permission for a child to do as he likes with perhaps some gentle reproach from a parent, has backfired in one way or another.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *midnightwriter* 
There's very sound scientific basis for the "popular" attachment theory, if this is what you're looking for.

I'm not looking for help. Instead, what I noted was that a bit of reading on attachment theory doesn't make one an expert. It is obviously possible to spoil or coddle a child-- and the OP is evidence-- which doesn't mean that there is no evidence supporting attachment theory.


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## mamaw/two (Nov 21, 2005)

I haven't read all the reply's, but I totally agree with the ones that I have read. You are not doing anything wrong with your daughter, it's her personality and the age! You are doing great, continue meeting her needs and this to shall pass








In reading about your dd, I'm reminded ALOT of my oldest dd. She is slightly high needs and wanted to be with me 100% of the time. I included her in everything I did, she helped with the dishes, the laundry, the cooking, the cleaning and she loved every minute of it (and so did I







), it kept her happy and engaged and kept me sane! As she has grown older she is able to entertain herself, she's 8 1/2 yrs old and I sometimes have call her to help me because she's off playing with her brothers and sister or doing something by herself and I miss her. I look back on those days of having only her and I home all day and all the time we had together very fondly and really miss it. She was nursed on demand, self weaned, and co-slept...I believe that having her needs met have made her into the intelligent, confident, smart young girl that she has become! She has three younger siblings and they are all raised the same way she is, but have been much less high needs and are able to entertain themselves for a time (but do get clingly and whiney at times), so I don't think it's the parenting style, just the child's personality.


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## bodhitree (May 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iucounu* 
Continuing to instantly give in to this particular child's demands, dropping everything to accommodate her every whim, will make the problem worse. No child needs to be instantly tended to every time she screeches, for any reason. The OP started this thread in the knowledge that she had contributed to the situation (she quite obviously has). Neither of my two children has had such issues.

Will this child turn out to be a sociopath, or have other serious issues because she was allowed to continue to wrap her mother around her little finger? Most likely not; but there's no benefit in it whatsoever. The child is being encouraged in an overly anxious behavior pattern, which is having consequences for the parent as well.

One could of course justify any overly demanding behavior as a kid just "needing more love". I understand that a lot of you are coming at this from a perspective of some popular reading on attachment theory etc., but in this case the child is simply being overly demanding.

You know, I can't help feeling like you are responding to a caricatured notion of "overindulgent parenting" that you have in your head, rather than to what I actually said. Nowhere did I say that I "instantly give in to this particular child's demands, dropping everything to accommodate her every whim." Nor did I say that she is "instantly tended to every time she screeches." In fact, I think I made it pretty clear that I do NOT just drop everything and give her whatever she wants whenever she wants it. I described the strategies that I use of distraction and redirection (by giving her something to play with, encouraging her to go outside, etc) and of verbally encouraging her to settle down and wait for what she wants. I also noted that "*it isn't too soon to start talking about emotions and setting boundaries on what I am willing/able to do for her*."

My daughter receives plenty of discipline. My husband and I have simply chosen not to use methods such as what you recommend. I do not use ignoring her as a routine method of discipline because part of my job is to model for her that we treat each other respectfully as human beings. She will not be allowed to ignore me when I speak to her, therefore I do not model for her that that's an acceptable way to interact with each other. Besides, my DD is not stupid, and it wouldn't take her long to figure out that all she would have to do is start climbing on top of the table or getting too close to the hot stove and I would have to give her my attention. I don't want to set up a situation where she would basically have an incentive for getting into trouble. So when she wants my attention, she always gets a response, it just might not be the response she's looking for. If ignoring your children works in your house, that's great, but we have made a deliberate decision not to use that tactic.

So, Iucounu, if you want to contribute helpful responses, then they would be welcome. If what you really want to do is enlighten some overindulgent AP parents, then go find some.









Thanks SO MUCH to everyone who has reassured me that this is developmentally normal behavior. I'm already using many of your suggestions, and they've already helped a ton. I got dinner cooked yesterday with no whining on her part or frustration on mine. Actually, since she got to stand on a chair and "help," we both had fun.


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## midnightwriter (Jan 1, 2009)

I also want to chime in that this is totally personality related, not parenting. My first was very much like yours, and now at 8.5 she is very independent, but attached, and she's always been "high needs" and probably on the verge of sensory integration issues.

My son has always been very mellow, focused, and could entertain himself for hours.

My third child is also quite intense, similar to DD1, but she is not as sensory sensitive and I can reason with her much easier, even when she was 12-16 m old.

They have all been parently similarly, and their needs have been met right away for a loooooooong time.

I'm certain that one can train a child out of showing his or her needs to you. The needs don't disappear, though. If one consistency ignores the child, this effectively creates learned helplessness phenomenon. The result is that the child internalises the idea that whenever he or she needs attention / love / bonding his communication is not going to bring any results.


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## mamaw/two (Nov 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bodhitree* 
So, Iucounu, if you want to contribute helpful responses, then they would be welcome. If what you really want to do is enlighten some overindulgent AP parents, then go find some.










ITA!!!!

I read a little more of the posts and wanted to add that I don't think you should be to concerned with the sleeping issues as I believe they are age related also. All of my kid's began sleeping very well around 2 yrs old (night time and taking naps by themselves), the older ones are all great sleepers and again I believe it is from having their needs met! The younger one is only 15 monthes, so still is waking lots at night to nurse!
Glad to hear things are going better!


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## lookatreestar (Apr 14, 2008)

age/phase. my ds is in this now and woooooow does my house look like junk right now!

went through the same thing with dd.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

iucounu: just a gentle reminder that this is a gentle discipline board... there usually isn't encouragement of dismissing very young children's needs.

h


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iucounu* 
Mothers everywhere are able to cook dinner despite having sixteen-month-olds, who miraculously turn out just fine.

Of course, one can have a wrong opinion, and this time you're wrong.

There are also many mothers who wring their hands and bang their heads against the wall, wondering about their childrens' exceedingly high-needs personality, as I did. Thank the Gods these children are perfectly normal, too...just, they have a higher need for attention and mom-time and maybe touch.
To moms like that (~waves hand high~), it IS a miracle when other people's children don't have to be attended to nearly every second.

Just an example: I stopped going to playgrounds that weren't fenced in, because I was the only mom who had to shadow her child _the whole time_, because he would intentionally run into the road and laugh, or step right off of the "fireman's pole" part of the playground, six feet up, with no fear whatever. And laugh. At 18 months old.
I wore my child _everywhere_, till he was too heavy to carry, about 2-1/2 years old. I wore him in the backpack while I was cooking, cleaning, everything. Especially at 16 months old. It was a win-win situation, for him and for me. I don't consider it overindulgent at all. He needed to be on me. I needed to get work done. It worked. Other people's children aren't like mine-- so be it. It worked.

ETA: There are no wrong opinions. Opinions are just that: subjective.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *midnightwriter* 
I also want to chime in that this is totally personality related, not parenting. My first was very much like yours, and now at 8.5 she is very independent, but attached, and she's always been "high needs" and probably on the verge of sensory integration issues.










Oh yeah, this.
Mine turned out to be HIGHLY ADHD, and I knew this from when he was very, very little. I was actually hoping it was sensory, as the symptoms are 7 out of 10 the same, but sensory isn't treated with meds...sigh.

Also ETA: I can in no way be considered a GD parent-- I have tried all sorts of parenting styles (yes, consistently, not jumping around) and it turns out that I believe that some kids need different discipline than others. Mine is much more authoritarian than I ever thought it would turn out to be, but it's what works in my family, with my child's personality. YMMV-- but I still wholly believe AP is the way to go, and I don't see a discrepancy with AP and any parenting style.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't think kids of any age can be spoiled by love and attention. Older kids can get spoiled by getting too much material stuff I think - that is they can get a sense of entitlement. But giving a toddler attention when he/she wants it is responsive parenting, not spoiling. 16 months is still very young, really just a baby yet. At some point they can wait until appropriate times, but they have to be more verbal and have more understanding and impulse control for that.

I find that toddlers like to copy what the parents are doing, so I agree with those who say to get out some spoons and non-breakable bowls and let her "help" you cook. My older one was like yours and really was just on top of me for ages. She's very independent at this point (8).


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## swd12422 (Nov 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
.. giving a toddler attention when he/she wants it is responsive parenting, not spoiling. 16 months is still very young, really just a baby yet. At some point they can wait until appropriate times, but they have to be more verbal and have more understanding and impulse control for that.

....

THIS THIS THIS! (Yes, I am shouting, not at the OP, but in case there's anyone else even considering posting their "wrong" opinion that the OP has created a monster child. Sheesh.)

I have a friend who seemed to be very supportive of my parenting efforts, and if she'd had children I had no doubt she would've been the AP queen, if there were such a thing. And yet she told me to put my unwilling son in a playpen at 6 months old (after only being home with us for a month), and at a year old was saying that he needed to learn to be independent and that it was okay and even recommended to ignore him if I needed to be doing something and he wanted attention. At one year old. I was appalled and asked for the bean dip. Now that DS is much older, verbal, and definitely understands things a lot more, I can see what she meant by her advice, but it was NOT appropriate for a preverbal young toddler by any means. Even now DS understands that I need space to move and can't read him a book RIGHT NOW b/c I have to cook or whatever, but that doesn't mean I need to ignore him to get my work done. I include him in what I'm doing, whether it's cooking or cleaning or whatever. He helps me sort laundry, and loves it.

PS - I recommended earlier that you let her stand on a chair. I highly recommend getting/building a Learning Tower if she is at all unsafe up there (you know better than anyone else if she'd be okay). I'm saying that as someone who just 3 days ago decided I was smart to wait on spending the money, as DS loves to stand on a step stool and is fine. Today he fell out of the van TWICE and off the step stool. He's fallen off the step stool at least 3 times in the past week. He is not particularly clumsy, but apparently has become complacent and easily distracted by whatever else is going on and forgets he's up there. So yeah, if this is your kid, and you have concrete or tile flooring, splurge and get the Learning Tower.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iucounu* 
No, it's not. Mothers everywhere are able to cook dinner despite having sixteen-month-olds, who miraculously turn out just fine.


I've had 2 different 16- month-olds. One let me cook dinner happily entertaining himself in the next room; one screeched for me and clung to my leg. Both were parented by me the same way, which did NOT include giving in to every whim the second they made a peep. Sometimes, kids are just INTENSE by their nature. Like, INTENSE. And trying to ignore it makes it a jillion times worse.


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swd12422* 
I was appalled and asked for the bean dip.










OMG I haven't heard this in ages and ages!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
Sometimes, kids are just INTENSE by their nature. Like, INTENSE. And trying to ignore it makes it a jillion times worse.

YES YES YES!! Not shouting at any individual either, just emphatically agreeing. Having had a VERY intense child (who still is, only different intense now that he's 9), I so, so, SO commiserate!!
If I'd only had more children to compare him to, like you. I only have the one. And at the time, I thought I was losing. my. mind. Or, like the OP, ruining my child forever.
Thank the gods neither of those was true!


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## dearmama22 (Oct 20, 2008)

oh this thread is making me feel so much better! I have an 18 month old and he sounds just like your girl and it is HARD a lot of days! He is not easily entertained by himself and if he is.. it is for about 5 minutes max.


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## bodhitree (May 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaw/two* 
I read a little more of the posts and wanted to add that I don't think you should be to concerned with the sleeping issues as I believe they are age related also. All of my kid's began sleeping very well around 2 yrs old (night time and taking naps by themselves), the older ones are all great sleepers and again I believe it is from having their needs met! The younger one is only 15 monthes, so still is waking lots at night to nurse!
Glad to hear things are going better!

After putting tons and tons of effort into helping DD learn to sleep better (using the No-Cry Sleep Solution, etc), I've decided that's pretty much my point of view too. We have gotten some very gradual improvement, but I don't think she'll be STTN anytime soon. She just started consistently doing a 4-5 hour stretch by herself at the beginning of the night without waking, so I'm pretty happy about that.







Hopefully by the time she's two, the sleep will have gotten lots better.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swd12422* 
PS - I recommended earlier that you let her stand on a chair. I highly recommend getting/building a Learning Tower if she is at all unsafe up there (you know better than anyone else if she'd be okay). I'm saying that as someone who just 3 days ago decided I was smart to wait on spending the money, as DS loves to stand on a step stool and is fine. Today he fell out of the van TWICE and off the step stool. He's fallen off the step stool at least 3 times in the past week. He is not particularly clumsy, but apparently has become complacent and easily distracted by whatever else is going on and forgets he's up there. So yeah, if this is your kid, and you have concrete or tile flooring, splurge and get the Learning Tower.

Yeah, I did decide to go ahead and get the Learning Tower. My DD managed to break her leg while playing in our kitchen with nothing dangerous around her, and she had only been walking for about two weeks at the time.







So yeah, she's pretty clumsy at this point, and I think the Learning Tower is a good investment for us. It was good to at least use the chair for a couple days first to make sure that the strategy of bringing her up to counter height would actually work to keep her happy while I cook and do dishes. Of course, I stayed right on top of her the whole time so she wouldn't fall.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
Sometimes, kids are just INTENSE by their nature. Like, INTENSE. And trying to ignore it makes it a jillion times worse.









An easy-going kid might go do something else if you ignore them....but my kid is not like that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maiasaura* 
YES YES YES!! Not shouting at any individual either, just emphatically agreeing. Having had a VERY intense child (who still is, only different intense now that he's 9), I so, so, SO commiserate!!
If I'd only had more children to compare him to, like you. I only have the one. And at the time, I thought I was losing. my. mind. Or, like the OP, ruining my child forever.
Thank the gods neither of those was true!

Yep, ours is a one and only, so not having any other children to compare her to is most of the reason why I asked in the first place. It's so helpful to be able to get feedback from all the mamas here so I don't have to keep wondering and feeling guilty in the back of my mind.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *dearmama22* 
oh this thread is making me feel so much better! I have an 18 month old and he sounds just like your girl and it is HARD a lot of days! He is not easily entertained by himself and if he is.. it is for about 5 minutes max.

Yep, that sounds about like my little sweetie. I'm just going to keep repeating to myself, "This too shall pass...she WILL grow out of it!"


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## mariliasurf (Aug 31, 2010)

I understand that babies need a lot of attention and like others said, our society demands too much maturity on their part.

They do seem too needy and it´s hard not to think we are spoiling them too much. It´s hard to find the balance.

My daughter is 3 years old and she is much more independent now .she can play alone for a while. I guess it´s all true about the terrible twos phase and you simply have to hang on, be patient and wait for it to pass.

You will be rewarded with time.


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bodhitree* 
I'm just going to keep repeating to myself, "This too shall pass...she WILL grow out of it!"









Yep. That.
BTW mine didn't sleep very well until he was at _least_ 2-1/2, maybe even 3...when the naps stopped









Quote:


Originally Posted by *mariliasurf* 
I guess it´s all true about the terrible twos phase and you simply have to hang on, be patient and wait for it to pass.

You will be rewarded with time.

Yep. Only, nobody told me that three is SO much worse than two









Did I mention Louise Bates Ames? She writes these books all titled "Your One Year Old", "Your Two Year Old", and so on, one for every year up till pre-teenage, and then I think that one's called "Your Pre-Teen" or some such. They are _awesome_ resources for age and developmentally appropriate behavior.


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## bodhitree (May 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maiasaura* 
Did I mention Louise Bates Ames? She writes these books all titled "Your One Year Old", "Your Two Year Old", and so on, one for every year up till pre-teenage, and then I think that one's called "Your Pre-Teen" or some such. They are _awesome_ resources for age and developmentally appropriate behavior.

You did mention those books, and I meant to say that I put "Your One Year Old" on my library holds list. Thanks for the recommendation!


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bodhitree* 
You did mention those books, and I meant to say that I put "Your One Year Old" on my library holds list. Thanks for the recommendation!

YW! You might want to put "Your Two Year Old" on hold, too








The interesting thing about her books, I think, is that she notes a marked difference in behavior at the birthday and at the half-year. I am going to read "Your Nine Year Old" on my flight on Thursday


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bodhitree* 
Yeah, I did decide to go ahead and get the Learning Tower.

Learning Tower=awesome. We only had ours for about 2 years, because my kids are herculean and were tipping it over just trying to get into it by the time they were 5 and 3, so it was no longer safe. Great thing to have for those 2 years though.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bodhitree* 
Yep, ours is a one and only, so not having any other children to compare her to is most of the reason why I asked in the first place. It's so helpful to be able to get feedback from all the mamas here so I don't have to keep wondering and feeling guilty in the back of my mind.









If my daughter had been first, I totally would have thought a LOT, "How the [email protected]^!^^[email protected]! can people have more than one kid????? "







: I am SO thankful to have had a more easygoing kid first, so that I saw that so much has to do with temperament, and so much is just a phase...so long as you are actively parenting in a way that when they're done with the phase they move out of it (instead of keeping the phase going by not reading their signs of readiness to move on)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bodhitree* 
Yep, that sounds about like my little sweetie. I'm just going to keep repeating to myself, "This too shall pass...she WILL grow out of it!"









....and into something almost as equally irritating.














: 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 was my personal least favorite phase for both my kids. But as you said, this too shall pass.


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
I am SO thankful to have had a more easygoing kid first, so that I saw that so much has to do with temperament, and so much is just a phase...

I met a mom back when my ds was 3 (he's 9 now) who had two kids, both boys. The older one at the time was about...hmm, 5? And he was some kind of handful, let me tell you. _Mine_ is a handful, and this kid made mine look like Buddha.
The younger one was mellow as could be. The mom told me she was convinced God gave her the second one, with his temperament, to show her that she was not Bad Mommy after all, and that some kids are just...the way they are. It actually gave her a bit of sanity.

Hang in there









Three. I hated three. I tell people now "Four is the reward for not killing my child at three"







Four was so mellow, so cooperating, SUCH a difference fro three!


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Mine are older now, but I remember how tiring this stage was! Especially if you have a spirited little one who is trying out her wings. I had two mantras: "This too shall pass" and "Don't take it personally."

They need to know you love them anyway, no matter how disagreeable they get. It's often related to frustration that they want do something that they are physically unable to do. If they don't get enough sleep or are hungry, that just compounds things. Also, mine used to get cranky about 2 days before they started to show symptoms of getting a cold.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Iucounu* 
Continuing to instantly give in to this particular child's demands, dropping everything to accommodate her every whim, will make the problem worse. No child needs to be instantly tended to every time she screeches, for any reason. The OP started this thread in the knowledge that she had contributed to the situation (she quite obviously has). Neither of my two children has had such issues.

Will this child turn out to be a sociopath, or have other serious issues because she was allowed to continue to wrap her mother around her little finger? Most likely not; but there's no benefit in it whatsoever. The child is being encouraged in an overly anxious behavior pattern, which is having consequences for the parent as well.

One could of course justify any overly demanding behavior as a kid just "needing more love". I understand that a lot of you are coming at this from a perspective of some popular reading on attachment theory etc., but in this case the child is simply being overly demanding.

I'm sorry, but this is a gentle discipline forum where most of the parents _use_ attachment parenting or natural parenting. Many of us have based this choice on scientific research and some on pure instinct. Basically AP parents and natural parenting parents believe meeting a child's instinctive needs helps them feel more secure and develop into emotionally secure independent people.

Separation anxiety developed as part of the human survival instinct because in primitive conditions a toddler alone would be food for predators and be killed in accidents form generally hostile environments. Even though our environments are usually safer now we're still biologically wired to need constant contact with our parents while we're small, defenseless and impulsive. Until modern times and still in much of the world a child this age would be on her mothers back most of the time. The OPs child is completely normal. Taking care of her DDs needs will make her feel safe and be less needy with time. Wearing her DD on her back while doing chores would help her DD feel safe, involved and give mom the chance to get things done. Since a child this age is incapable of the manipulation because their frontal lobes aren't developed yet the child can't "be trying to wrap her mother around her little finger". The child is just being a normal small young primate by needing to be in physical contact with her mom.

Here's a good link for you about the neurological value of a nurturing parenting style http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/li...n_palmer2.html . Most of the articles on the natural child site are pretty good. For more indepth info on how a nurturing parenting style effects children on a neurological level the Science of Parenting by Margot Sunderland is very good and has alot of the hard research referenced in the back of the book.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

For the OP, I found putting my DD is a backpack worked really well during those clingy phases. One very fun distracting activity was letting my DD fingerpaint in her high chair. When I really needed her occupied and couldn't wear her it usually worked really well. If you don't want to use actual finger paint you just need something smearable. Cleaning is easy just wash off the high chair tray and give your messy child a quick bath. Letting her finger paint also seemed to decrease being really messy with food. It seemed to satisfy her need to be messy.

We still let DD stand in a chair and help. Now that she's over 4.5, she's really pretty helpful in the kitchen instead of just feeling involved. She helps get stuff out, puts stuff up, unloads bags and helps with alot of the precooking part of food preprep ...... no chopping yet though. Hey having a kid that likes being with you while you do things can develop into a having a very helpful little person.


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

BTW I wanted to share-- my first dd was very very intense, had huge horrible tantrums, and I had a hard time taking her out to public or to people's houses. She is now 9.5 years old, a sensitive, kind girl who gets good grades, has healthy friendships, never gets in trouble at school, and still has her spirited personality-- it has just been directed at good things instead of being directionless the way it was when she was a toddler/preschooler.  So hang in there.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ssh* 
I'm sorry, but this is a gentle discipline forum where most of the parents _use_ attachment parenting or natural parenting. Many of us have based this choice on scientific research and some on pure instinct. Basically AP parents and natural parenting parents believe meeting a child's instinctive needs helps them feel more secure and develop into emotionally secure independent people.

Separation anxiety developed as part of the human survival instinct because in primitive conditions a toddler alone would be food for predators and be killed in accidents form generally hostile environments. Even though our environments are usually safer now we're still biologically wired to need constant contact with our parents while we're small, defenseless and impulsive. Until modern times and still in much of the world a child this age would be on her mothers back most of the time. The OPs child is completely normal. Taking care of her DDs needs will make her feel safe and be less needy with time. Wearing her DD on her back while doing chores would help her DD feel safe, involved and give mom the chance to get things done. Since a child this age is incapable of the manipulation because their frontal lobes aren't developed yet the child can't "be trying to wrap her mother around her little finger". The child is just being a normal small young primate by needing to be in physical contact with her mom.

Here's a good link for you about the neurological value of a nurturing parenting style http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/li...n_palmer2.html . Most of the articles on the natural child site are pretty good. For more indepth info on how a nurturing parenting style effects children on a neurological level the Science of Parenting by Margot Sunderland is very good and has alot of the hard research referenced in the back of the book.

this is very well said! thank you!
i would add the book "Connection Parenting" by Pam Leo is a great book (i am re-reading)









h


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## jillmamma (Apr 11, 2005)

With my older two, and now with my 7 month old, letting them play nearby has helped with the separation anxiety. If I have to do dishes/cooking, either putting her on my back or in the highchair and moving it right by where I am working can help. Of course sometimes I just decide to wait and do it later when she is in bed, but sometimes you have to do it now so you can eat. Another thing that worked well for me in the kitchen was to keep one cupboard unlocked that had stuff in it okay for a kid to play with...stainless steel bowls, plastic/wooden spoons, "kid" plates/bowls, etc. They had fun hiding in the cupboard, or bringing out dishes to bang on. Good luck, I know it is not always very easy to "get things done" with a baby/toddler around!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Four kids, all parented with AP, and GD (to various degrees). They've all been different. DD1 didn't want to be held at all until she was about two or three. I couldn't put ds2 down. My youngest isn't quite 16 months yet, but she's got a little bit of both.

Iucounu: Mothers everywhere cook dinner with their 16 month olds around? Sure, but they do it in a myriad of different ways. My dh works a fairly early schedule and is usually home by 5:00 or 5:30...so I wait for him and cook dinner when he gets home, and he wrangles kids. My sister's youngest are 7 year old twins...but she used to just get frustrated and yell a lot (she's not AP/GD at all). My aunt used to corral her kids in the living room, with a fence. In the past, I've prepared/cooked many meals with a child on my back or hip. The fact that moms manage to make dinner doesn't mean that a mom who is having trouble is doing something wrong! Lots of moms have trouble...and still cook dinner.


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

I haven't read all the comments, but I wanted to say that though each stage has its unique PITA parts, the 15-18 month stage was the absolute WORST for me. DD was just totally impossible and I was completely at my wit's end. The separation anxiety really peaked, and she's start shrieking hysterically if I so much as headed in the general direction of a door. She suddenly couldn't do ANYTHING by herself. She had previously played happily on the floor for ages while I did my thing, but now it was a constant hanging onto my leg. And the tantrums, oh the tantrums. Over every.little.thing.

At about 18 months, it was like a switch went off. She hit some huge developmental leap and suddenly she was a totally different child (much more like her 12-15 month self except sooo much more capable and independent).

At 16 months, I don't really see how it could possibly be a discipline issue. You can't really effectively discipline a child that age anyway, unless you do some truly awful blanket-training type of stuff that only crazy fringe types do anyway. All you can really do is redirect and redirect and redirect and redirect and eventually, at some point, maybe, hopefully, they'll either get the point, or they'll reach an age of reason and you can use your gentle discipline techniques and have them actually work.


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## mrs.rich (Feb 3, 2009)

Thank you for posting this! I'm in the same boat with twin 19 month old boys who, at 4pm every day, turn into lunatics who want to hang on me and whine. There is no cooking dinner anymore unless I have the forethought to put together something in the crockpot before the witching hour. We do a lot of breakfast-for-dinner now. I'm hoping this passes soon, but part of me really likes just going ahead and sitting down with them and playing for an hour or more instead of doing chores or cooking. I think there may be sometime in the future when they don't want me to play with them, so I want to enjoy it now!


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## bodhitree (May 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mrs.rich* 
Thank you for posting this! I'm in the same boat with twin 19 month old boys who, at 4pm every day, turn into lunatics who want to hang on me and whine. There is no cooking dinner anymore unless I have the forethought to put together something in the crockpot before the witching hour. We do a lot of breakfast-for-dinner now. I'm hoping this passes soon, but part of me really likes just going ahead and sitting down with them and playing for an hour or more instead of doing chores or cooking. I think there may be sometime in the future when they don't want me to play with them, so I want to enjoy it now!

OP here. To update, our Learning Tower arrived last week, and my DD LOVES it. My new strategy for cooking dinner is to plan to do it in small chunks of time, starting right after the end of naptime, and to let DD watch/"help" while she stands next to me in her Learning Tower. It works great! And since I'm doing it in small chunks, we can take lots of breaks to go play or sit on the couch and nurse. We are both enjoying our afternoons a lot more. And I really like that she is getting involved in preparing meals so young--we place a high priority on having made-from-scratch "real" food whenever possible, so I'm glad she's already started learning about how that works.

The more I thought about it, the more I realized that the behavior that was annoying me so much a few weeks ago was _not_ misbehavior. It was a result of her strong drives, both to learn everything she can about her world, and to maintain a strong connection with me. I certainly wouldn't want her to stop acting on those drives! I just need to help her channel them into ways of interacting that make us both happy.

So mrs.rich (and anyone else with the same "problem"), a Learning Tower might be worth the investment for you, too! It can hold two little ones at a time.


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