# Partial Nightweaning???



## richardsmom (Jan 6, 2003)

DS is 11 months and we primarily cosleep (sometimes he starts out in a crib before I go to bed). There was about a week that he started to sleep for 5 hours at a stretch, but now we have been back to nursing AT LEAST every 2 hours. The 11 months of no sleep is really starting to catch up with me. I really would like to night wean, but I think it would be good to still nurse maybe once in the night. This is because I work out of the home so it would be good for my milk supply (I do pump at work) and I think the bonding is especially important since I do work.

So I am wondering if anyone has had success at limiting the amount of nursing sessions at night, without necessarily getting rid of them entirely? My husband is a stay at home dad and so he is willing to help with this, but anytime he or I have tried to get ds to go back to sleep just by holding, rubbing, etc, ds gets all worked up until I put a boob in his mouth! Since we cosleep, we have been considering having me sleep in a separate bed for a while (with maybe dh bring ds to me to nurse just once?) Has anyone been able to do this?

Thanks,

VERY tired mom to Richard


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## tara (Jan 29, 2002)

Hey, richardsmom... Have you heard of the dr jay gordon nightweaning plan ? He recommends choosing a 6 hour period to nightwean and nursing the rest of the time, and I have heard of people being successful with a shorter period, too. He doesn't recommend nightweaning before one year, but you're close to that point.

I have to let you know that Dr. Jay's plan didn't work for us - Jackson never understood the 6 hour thing, and would fret all night, waiting until I would nurse him. We never got any relief until I stopped nursing in bed altogether. But... I think that's unusual. I think most people have good luck with the 6 hour thing...

Good luck to you!


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## owen&mama (Jan 3, 2003)

I'm kind of right there with you. My DS is now almost 16 months, and has gone through several of these cycles of long stretches of time with hardly any nursing, then back to the all-night sessions. I figure it's teething and developmental stuff, so I am learning to just go with it. Like others here, I work full-time, so I use the night nursing to "make up" for some of the time that we have missed during the day.

I have noticed that my DS usually has a long stretch of sleep after first going to bed, then starts the power nursing. I often go to bed with him so that I take advantage of that uninterrupted time - should we be lucky enough to have it!

All of this being said, we are working on starting DS in his bed, waiting to move him until after he wakes in the night. This has resulted in a rather short sleep in his bed! So, it could be said that I don't have a clue what I am talking about!









But know that I feel your pain!


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## richardsmom (Jan 6, 2003)

Thanks Tara for the Dr. Gordon link. I think I will try that. When I have time (ha, ha) I'll also have to check out the rest of his site. I liked how carefully he worded the article. I'm debating on maybe waiting another month so he is a year old. Although I think this lack of sleep is depressing my immune system. I am normally pretty healthy but now I have multiple health issues (ear infection, skin problems, sore throat, and bowel trouble....yikes!!!). I talk with dh about it tonight.

Owen&mama, frankly it is always nice to hear that other moms are going through the same issues. Aside from my sister, no one else I know nursed as long or cosleeped so this website really helps support me. I happened to work with all guys and I know the Dads here believe in CIO. So I never talk about this stuff too much at work.

I too notice that ds wakes up to nurse more and more often as the night wears on. I probably should try to go to bed earlier with him too but I always feel like I have so much to do around the house!


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## crimsonbadger (Nov 1, 2002)

I am having similar concerns with 18-month old ds. I used to love co-sleeping, and had the strength to defend it when dh wanted to move ds into a crib (in another room) -- dh's parents continue to pressure him into thinking I'm instilling all sorts of bad habits in ds ("he has to learn that he can't always get what he wants") -- but that's another story.

The problem is that co-sleeping used to make sense -- but it doesn't feel that way any more. Ds would nurse briefly without really waking me up and fall back asleep. I didn't care if he did this every 2 hours. Now he's become so 'athletic' (euphemism) -- he nurses for 90 seconds on one breast, then demands the other one. He sticks his bottom in the air and rotates around me. If I try to hold him still, he squeels. If I don't respond instantly to his demand for the "other nurnie" he screams. My husband insists that we move him into the other room and let him cry it out. I hate that idea -- but I cannot argue that the situation is 'working'.

I don't want to cut ds off entirely -- I just want him to calm down, to sleep a little bit (he nursed last night and the night before for 3 hours without stopping), to stop doing acrobatics in bed, to stop screaming. Sometimes I offer him a breast and he just sits there next to me screaming "nurnie! nurnie!" and crying instead of breastfeeding (which he could easily do!). I don't get it.

I have Pantley (he's not making any progress -- unlatching him only makes him more frantic and he nurses even longer afterwards -- how long do I need to try this before I decide it won't work for us) and am scared to try Gordon (I suspect after 30 minutes of screaming I'd just give in, which Gordon says -- and I believe -- only makes it worse).

DOES ANYONE HAVE A SUCCESS STORY that involves helping a toddler calm down at night and sleep more without kicking him out of the bed or of the room?

Alternately, does anyone feel that -- at 18 months -- moving into a crib makes more sense than fighting in bed?

Thanks.


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## richardsmom (Jan 6, 2003)

Wow, crimsonbadger I really feel for you. As beautiful as nursing is, the 3 hours straight would be awfully hard to take.

That has got to be hard to have the difference of opinion with dh. I know that doesn't make things any easier on you. I wish you the best with whatever you and your dh decide to do.

P.S.
If I end up trying Gordon's method, I will post info on how it went.


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## richardsmom (Jan 6, 2003)

Oh yeah, I also meant to add that I think that whatever decision you make will be the right decision. I know some might disagree, but if you decide to go with the crib, I really think ds will be fine in the long run (I am sure it won't be fine with him in the short run though). The fact is you coslept 18 months longer than most babies. I really think your sanity and your marriage are important considerations that you can't ignore.

Again, best wishes...


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## owen&mama (Jan 3, 2003)

Oh goodness - just have to add that I could have just about written crimsonbadger's post. I'll be staying tuned here commiserating, if nothing else!







:


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## rainsmom (Dec 5, 2001)

My dd is now 28mos+ and went thru the same thing. I had her completely nightweaned at one time, around 14mos, then the teething problems kicked in and she was up at night with that. Seems nursing was the only thing that calmed her down. She would marathon nurse all night. I was averageing about 3hours of sleep a night.

Finally the teething has subsided and I started with a combo of Pantley and Dr Jay. SLowley. Now Ive got her down to waking once a night and nursing about 5minutes tops. THen she wakes around 630am for a long nurse/sleep /nurse. Im ready to wean that middle of the night soon. I think with her it got to be a habit, it was the only way she could go back to sleep. I always make sure she has plenty to eat before bed time too. That extra bowl of yogurt really helps. So does some sleepytime tea. And we have a nighttime ritual of bath and storytime. SOmetimes I use rescue remedy in her sippy cup or straight if shes wound up from an exciting day......or herbal super calm. It really helps. (I get in bed with her and nurse her to sleep between 830and 9. THen get up and do what I need to around the house, unless Im too tired)

Im so ready for her to sleep thru the night. I know its just around the corner. But I also know that it usually means no more naps......and I live for those 2 hour naps in the middle of the day!!

I dont know what will work with your dc's, but Im right there with you mamas! Commiserating too!


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## mom2jack (Apr 19, 2003)

I just wanted to post that I have had some success reducing my sons nightwakings. He is 9 months old so I don't know how this would work for an older baby.

My son was nursing 10+ times a night and he would nurse pretty much until he fell off the nipple. I have read the NCSS and tried Pantley's pull off in the past. This never worked for me because I could unlatch him all night long and we would just latch right back on. So when my son woke up I sat up to nurse him and listened for the swallowing to stop so I knew he was done eating. Then I would unlatch him put him over my shoulder (burping position) rock him for a minute and lay him back down. If he cried I would get up and walk him around until he settled down and lay him down next to me again. Usually he fell asleep. After the first night he went down to about 7 nursings a night.

Last night he only woke twice. He can also put him self back to sleep occassionally if he wakes up in the middle of the night. Of course he usually ends up sleeping sideways or on top of me, but he can do it now. I still am pretty tired, especially walking him around a lot, but I think if I can consistently get him waking between one and three times I could function so much better.

I think the most important thing is delaching before he fell back to sleep for the night. Other wise he would nurse all night and wake up every time I moved. And even though I'm getting less sleep I'm staying motivated since I've seen such a drastic change in his sleep. Last night he even had a 5 hour stretch.







Of course the night before he woke every 1 hr 45 min.







: But it is getting better!


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## windipixi (Jan 14, 2003)

hey ladies guess what i'm doing this week? yep night weaning...well, mostly, sometimes...crap.

my 16 month old was up with the night time gymnastics as well and i'm just ready to stretch out so we moved him into his own bed at night...he wakes up about four times each night and he cries and i hold him until he goes back to sleep...4 days ago it was a half hour now its down to about 10 minutes. then when he wakes up in the morning i bring into our bed for nursing and a little extra sleep...

he started taking naps in his bed about 1.5 months ago and the first few nights he slept there we joined him..these things seemed to make it go more smoothly for him and us too...

it is hard changing your whole rythm like this but for us, dispite the bags under my eyes, i feel like it is a good move forward....

thanks for all your stories....it helps just to know there are others....


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## delighted.mama (Jan 29, 2003)

I am in the same boat.....all-night nusing, bed gymnastics, screaming if it takes to long to get the "girls" out, etc......I am tired too!!







I'll be staying tuned as well to see how it works out for all of you. We did try Dr. Gordons method when dd was around 12-13 months and it reduced the night waking. But, she is still waking every 2 hours now and she's 15 months old. Maybe I'll go back to it. We'll see!


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## crimsonbadger (Nov 1, 2002)

Thanks for all the words of support! DS has actually been sleeping MUCH better the last 2 nights (back to his regular nurse-every-2-hours-but-only-for-5-minutes routine). I wonder if it's because the weather has been SO fabulous here (Wisconsin!) and he's been out running around chasing balls and climbing on lawn chairs and trying to walk up slides ALL DAY LONG. Now I'm scared that it will rain and he'll be stuck back inside!
All that aside, I do want to keep him in bed with us and try at least partial nightweaning. Maybe I gave up too soon? It's just SO hard to hear him cry when I know how 'simple' it would be to help him feel better.
Anyway, thanks for letting me know you're out there.


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## richardsmom (Jan 6, 2003)

Well, I tried Dr Jay's method the other night, but I didn't even last through the first night. DS threw an absolute fit when I delatched him. I tried holding him, rocking him, etc. and he just kicked and pushed off me so I had to set him down on the bed. I even had a hard time holding on to him there because he kept thrashing. He was really mad. He cried for about 20 minutes (with me beside him of course) and I ended up nursing him again. I know I needed to hold out much longer than that. I guess I am just not ready for it. Maybe I will try Dr Jay's method again in a few months.

I thought of trying Pantley's pull off method again, but the thing is, my ds delatches himself a lot of the time anyway. He'll pull off and then flip over and face the other way (he actually does it so suddenly and quickly it is quite amusing).

So for the time being, the all-night restaurant is open for business! Yawn!


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## NaturalMamma (Nov 22, 2001)

Sorry--I don't have any advice...I've been trying various things for 6 mos w/my DD who is 2.5 yrs old.

Not that we're competing, but I bet I can top what you all are going through: my DD sleeps very poorly at night and does not take naps. I'm fried!









Cindi


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## richardsmom (Jan 6, 2003)

Cindi,

You win!









You poor thing. You definitely could use a good nights sleep. I certainly hope it doesn't take me six months to be able to have ds sleep a little longer.

I wish I had advice for you!!


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## Kimberley (Mar 23, 2003)

I definitely empathize. I hit rock bottom in terms of exhaustion and what we finally did was dh started to sleep with dd (six months old). I moved to a different room (my other dd). The baby does very well without me there If she starts to wake up he puts his hand on her and that usually does the trick. Every morning between 4 and 5:30 dh comes to get me and we switch beds. i get to nurse the babe in bed and go back to sleep with her for a few hours. It took a while for this to work. The babe adjusted quickly but it took me a while to be able to let go, let dh take over and sleep without her. This isn't a long term solution because dh and I are sleeping apart but good for now-till babe is older and ready to sleep alone or with her sis. good luck. you need sleep to be a good mommy.


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## Jenny Breen (Nov 14, 2002)

I am mom to a wonderful 18 month old, and am 4 months pregnant. We still do the family bed, but after I got pregnant, it seemed like she increased her night nursing to every HOUR AND it hurt! Plus, I was exhausted. We are down to nursing to sleep around 8:30 and nursing again around 5 a.m. We went through many nights (maybe 2 weeks) of anger, crying, stuff that I thought I couldn't handle, but I just kept talking to her, rubbing her back, hugging her and NOT giving in, and now her nights are steady. There are times she still wakes up and asks for it, but can be calmed back to sleep with a story and back rubbing. She sleeps much better than she ever did-now I just wish she sould sleep a little later! Anyway, I know it is hard, and feels terrible to let them cry but my advice is to give it as long as it takes, and stick with it because they ultimately will forget about it and sleep soundly and love you just as much. And it truly does benefit them to have a well rested mommy! Good Luck to all.
Jenny


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## richardsmom (Jan 6, 2003)

I just thought I would give a happy update.

Just when I thought I wasn't ready to do the (partial) nightweaning, I had a really bad bout of diarrhea. It lasted almost 2 weeks on and off. Anyway, there was one night
that I was nursing ds and I really had to go. But he just
kept nursing and nursing. I didn't want to take him off but
I ended up (this is awful) having a little accident. I was really
upset and told my dh that he would have to handle ds for the
night. I then took ds off the boob (and he was really angry
about that) and spent the night both in the bathroom and the spare room that is connected to our bathroom.

Well, ds cried and threw a fit on and off for about 2 hours I am told. The next night we decided to keep on going with it since I was still not well and we were wanting to do the nightweaning thing anyway. So dh took over things the second night at about 11. I went in the spare room again. However, this time I woke up and heard ds crying. I went out to check on how things were going (this was about 2 AM) and I saw dh watching t.v. and he had ds in the crib!!!!! I was NOT happy about this. I know dh was just frustrated and couldn't handle the crying but he knew how I felt about CIO (I thought he was with me on this too). Anyway, I took ds out of the crib and calmed him down by holding him and rocking him. I decided that I didn't want to have dh handle the weaning. So the next 3 nights after that ds would throw a fit when he didn't get a boob (I chose between 11 and 5 am to be no boob time). However, he did much better with me there I think. I just persisted with loving words, cuddling, rocking, etc. When he got really worked up I used Bach Rescue Remedy which I swear really helped. After those three days I didn't have to pick him up at all. I just pulled him closer, rubbed him, sometimes used a pacifier, etc.

I still need to comfort him when he wakes up but now he has actually slept for much longer periods (3-4 hours at a stretch!). Of course, we are still working on it, but I can't believe how well it has been going!

So basically we ended up doing a modified Dr. Jay plan. I just thought I would post the update in case anyone else was in the same boat and wanted to try this. Jenny was right about the importance of a well rested mommy. I am glad I didn't give in again because I was really exhausted and run down. I think that is why I got sick recently. Sleep is just so important to the immune system!

Anyway, thanks for all of the advice!


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## rainsmom (Dec 5, 2001)

Congrats on the success! Ill be trying this soon myself! Minus the bouts of diahhrea


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## laura163 (Sep 13, 2002)

That is great news! Jack is 13 months old and pretty much night weaned. We did really well for a month but then we went out of town and Jack got sick and I let him nurse all night long for a week. Getting him back to night weaned hasn't been as bad as i thought it would be. It makes co-sleeping so much better!

Laura


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## Pam_and_Abigail (Dec 2, 2002)

Wow. Ok, I know I won't get much pity, sicne my dd is only 8 months. But I am having problems at night. She's been in our bed for a week and a half, and she's worse not better, as far as sleep is concerned. I know she can sleep through the night, she's done it lots since she was 2.5 months. Even the doc says she doesn't need to eat. That said, I don't want to nightwean at such a young age. She must be finding nighttime scary, I keep telling myself, to have to nurse so much. There was one night she nursed 4 hours straight. I was able to sleep off and on, but it was light sleep. At least when she was next to me in the crib, I could have my own space. Now, as soon as she does fall asleep, and even if the nipple falls out, if I try to roll over and sleep on my own, or move a bit away from her, she wakes up crying. Last night I did manage to rub her back till she fell back asleep, but I still had to nurse pretty much all night. I miss the crib. Just a month ago, she was fine with it, waking up once or twice a night, but then suddenly it was every hour or half hour. That's why she's in our bed. But my back hurts from sleeping on my side all night, and nighttime was pretty much the only time dh and I had for ourselves to cuddle etc.
I'm going to check out the link above, but I don't know if it's apporpriate for dd's age.
Some people have suggested she could be going through teething, and that could be, but we've thought that for some 6 months, and still no teeth are out. I've been tempted to try her on a pacifier again, but I was so relieved she only took it from 6 to 8 weeks old. It was dh's idea, and I finally gave in. But if it's sucking, not food she needs, why do I need to lose sleep?
On an unrelated note, I have to share a gross story today. I feel so bad, I have to tell someone. We can't seem to get this place safe fast enough for our dd on the move. This morning she found the cat's litterbox pooper scooper and was SUCKING on that when I found her. She had wandered down the hall while I was distracted, and when I checked on her, she had litter all around her mouth and in her mouth. I felt so sick! More babyproofing!!

Thanks!

I just wanted to add that I went to the Dr. Jay site, and read that he doesn't recommend his plan for babies under a year. I suspected it, though. It didn't seem right. So I guess I'm stuck then?


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## maxmom (Aug 21, 2002)

Pam and Abigail,
I read on this other thread that if you bust your kid eating dog kibble, it counts for a vitamin.

Anyway, about nightweaning. I've never been more exhausted in my life since I had my sweet boy. I totally agree with the rest of you that say a tired mama is not as good a mama as a rested one. Our boy is 17 months and sleeps with us. What we're doing is played musical beds; I nurse ds down, then dh sleeps next to him while I sleep across the hall. Ds wakes anywhere from 2-5 times a night and cries, while dh comforts him by patting and rubbing his back and saying a "trigger" soothing sound (sshhh). It works about 75% of the time. It seems like every night is different, we just never know what to expect, but are approaching it with our firm committment of getting our boy to sleep without nursing every time. I really appreciate all y'all's input so much. I have no intention of day weaning, like many of you. I just need more sleep to function back to a "normal" level of energy.

Peace be with all of you as you make this transition.


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## True Blue (May 9, 2003)

Wow I am so glad I am not alone and I am so glad I found this board and post! I have never heard of Dr. Gordon and I am going to try this out starting tomorrow!!! DS is 12 months and sleeps in usually 1-2 hour stretches with the occasional 3 hour stretch, and it is wearing on me. My DH is in the military and often gone, and being alone for a whole week at a time (used to be 6-12 weeks but we just transferred thank goodness!) with little sleep is soooo difficult. He even only naps for 1 to 1 1/2 hrs once a day. I really think partial nightweaning would do it! Has anyone else here been having success with it?


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## Jenny Breen (Nov 14, 2002)

I am having great success with "partial nightweaning". Our 19 month old was in our bed until last week-and we nightweaned her there. She was down to nursing at bedtime, and then at about 5 am, with lots of waking in between. I am expecting number 2 and felt we needed to get her ready, so we got her own room ready, and since the first day we put her in her bed, she has not wanted to get back into ours! She sleeps a solid 6-7 hours from bedtime, and the second half of the night can vary, from 1-3 times waking, but she still doesn't nurse until at least 5. She does eat a lot of bananas at 3 am, and drinks a lot from her cup. Most importantly, I am sleeping deeply in between these times, and she is very excited and happy about her own room! Honestly, I do miss her, but I can always get in bed with her-she has a double futon on the floor. I didn't follow Dr Gordon's steps exactly, but essentially I think the keys are to be very consistent, and not to give in to anger-but also to make sure they know that you are always there, and they are loved.

JB


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