# has CIO gotten totally out of control?



## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

is it just me, or has CIO advice gotten OUTRAGEOUS?

there are people whose pediatricians are telling them to CIO with 2 and 3 week old babies because they'll only sleep on their parents







:

i have seen this on a mainstream message board, and i know a mom IRL who was told to CIO with a 5 week old (the rationale being that the babe had STTN once so he must not be hungry when he wakes before 5 hours have passed; so you can let him cry himself back to sleep 'cuz he's not hungry







: ). and i was told by my DD's D.O. to let her cry to "teach" her how to nap not on my lap or in a sling (i of course did not, and she's now napping on her own "despite" not doing CIO--for now anyway!







).

what baffles me is that baby doctors are saying this as a widespread thing, it seems (even with medical evidence suggesting it stresses babies' systems, and even though they should know that tiny babes need to be held!). even ferber thinks you should wait till 4-6 months, right? so how did CIO become acceptable with tinier and tinier babes?!?!?! or have people always advised this?

i don't like CIO ever, but i think it is just unspeakably HORRIFIC to do to a newborn. it makes me so sad and so angry.


----------



## ksera05 (Apr 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
what baffles me is that baby doctors are saying this as a widespread thing, it seems (even with medical evidence suggesting it stresses babies' systems, and even though they should know that tiny babes need to be held!). even ferber thinks you should wait till 4-6 months, right? so how did CIO become acceptable with tinier and tinier babes?!?!?! or have people always advised this?

Back in the earlier part of the 20th century, people used to feed on 4 hour schedules, rigid ones...it was considered a "scientific" approach. A lot of this is a holdover from that IMO.


----------



## Tulafina (Feb 11, 2007)

I am on a mainstream board(not much because I can't stand the women on it) and one girl came on saying she was a horrible mom...the post went on about how she put the happy baby into the swing, closed the nursery door and proceeded to let him scream for 2.5hrs while she had a nap. The baby is 7w old!!!!!







How disgusting! And to top things off everyone was saying how it was fine, and the baby just needed to learn to sleep on her own.







: UGH
I had to give my 2 cents because they all can't stand me so no harm done








Anyway, I can't stand the mentality either. I have never let my child cry for more than 1 minute(woke during my shower and I ran out with soapy hair) and now at 18mos he sleeps perfectly well during his naps and is now starting to sleep through the night


----------



## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Yeah, that is just... wow. Cruel.

I guess maybe the theory is that if you set the standard early enough it won't be as stressful for the baby as getting used to being with mommy then having that sense of safety taken away.

My DS would sleep on his own in the hospital (we were there for several nights after he was born) but *I* wouldn't have any of it. It felt unnatural that the child who had been inside me for so long was now out of my reach. So I brought him to sleep with me. By a few weeks of age (less actually) he would cry if I set him down for a second. My instincts told me that was OK, a baby's place is with mommy, but others (MIL especially, but my mother too) told me I was spoiling him. So, maybe his attachment to me is "my fault" but I wouldn't have it otherwise.

But I guess if I was going to do CIO it might make sense to do it earlier, less of a bad habit to break... (cos a child expressing his distress is a bad habit, yeah right). I just don't see how anyone would be able to shove their own instincts down and not try to comfort their own crying child, especially one that young and helpless. I would break down doors to get to my distressed baby. No way could I convince myself it was the right thing to do to "teach them independence."


----------



## Mom2Boy&Girl (Aug 25, 2007)

I think the message boards make something seem so much more widespread than it really is. I've read some of those, ahem, misguided posts on the mainstream message boards and the first things that come to mind is that (a) the poster is not the brightest bulb on the planet and (b) she's listening to relatives/friends who are giving her advice during a particularly low point in her life -- ie: when you go from having consistent uninterrupted sleep to having NO SLEEP.

I also doubt that many pediatricians would be giving that kind of advice to newborn mothers ... considering the two points above, I tend to think those moms call their pediatricians for advice and those pediatricians talk about CIO as one option as the child gets older. I know from personal experience that my doctor told me "that's what newborns do" when I asked him about my son waking every 2-3 hours to feed.

Anyway, I don't think it's an epidemic ... although I do think it's sad that so many women would rather do x-y-z based on the half-a$$ed antidotes they get on a message board, or some misguided advice from their friends/relatives than actually DO THE RESEARCH THEMSELVES and figure out what works best for their own child.

So many women don't trust their own instincts or intuition and I think that's where the trouble starts.

Of course, that's JMO.


----------



## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

If CIO has ANY benefits, it's that it sure makes me cuddle and kiss my DS just one extra bit (can there be too many cuddles and kisses?) as I think about the poor sweet babies subjected to this disgusting parental behavior.

I love my son so much. Dr. Sears is right, it is getting women to go against their NATURAL mothering instincts. That's why women have such a hard time with it. They are trying to conform to some disgusting, unnatural mode of conduct invented primarily by those who will never have a mother-child bond -- male "doctors."


----------



## lovesdaffodils (Jul 11, 2007)

That reminds me of a blog post I read of a friend of a friend a few months back. She had just brought her very premature DS home from the hospital. He was about 3 months old, but only about a week adjusted. He was having a hard time getting to sleep, and she said that her pediatrician advised they make him CIO. He only weighed 5 lbs! Apparently the doctor had said that the nurses in the NICU weren't able to hold him and get him to sleep and would've made him CIO so it's what he was used to and "needed."

I felt physically ill after reading it.









I really do think that the majority of people consider CIO the thing to do. I don't think that many people are truly doing it with younger babies. But I think that a lot of mainstream people are so misguided by the advice of relatives and doctors, and the society viewpoint that doesn't really view babies as PEOPLE with feelings, that it's easy to just let the baby cry or "fuss" even if it's not the extreme two-hour crying sessions, kwim? I just find that most people I know don't have a problem with letting/making their baby cry for any number of reasons because "they need to learn" or "they're just spoiled."


----------



## savienu (May 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tulafina* 
I am on a mainstream board(not much because I can't stand the women on it) and one girl came on saying she was a horrible mom...the post went on about how she put the happy baby into the swing, closed the nursery door and proceeded to let him scream for 2.5hrs while she had a nap. The baby is 7w old!!!!!







How disgusting! And to top things off everyone was saying how it was fine, and the baby just needed to learn to sleep on her own.







: UGH

You're right, disgusting!!! If you need a nap that badly, TAKE THE BABY TO THE BED WITH YOU!!


----------



## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

On the mainstream board I frequent, a mother of a newborn talking about having to CIO, or (worse, IMO) "Can I let him CIO yet?" is *generally* greeted with a bunch of people (who are pro-CIO, overall) telling her that there is no way you should CIO a baby that young, that Ferber/Weisbluth say you shouldn't do it before 4 months and some say before 6 months, that you should do whatever it takes, including co-sleeping, to get through the newbornn period.

of course, once the babies are 6mos, then you get the people saying "I think all children have to learn to sleep on their own and its abusive not to help teach them...."

But at least there is very little "Yay! CIO with a 3 week old!"

I still remember the poster who was distraught because her DH was listening to his mother and *forbidding* her to pick up her crying 7 week old. She described leaving him lying on the floor or in his crib crying and being told she was "Not allowed" to pick up her baby.


----------



## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mom2Boy&Girl* 
I also doubt that many pediatricians would be giving that kind of advice to newborn mothers ... considering the two points above, I tend to think those moms call their pediatricians for advice and those pediatricians talk about CIO as one option as the child gets older. I know from personal experience that my doctor told me "that's what newborns do" when I asked him about my son waking every 2-3 hours to feed.


you're lucky, then. i seriously know multiple women whose pedis told them to let their DC CIO at a young age (as in younger than 3 months, and in some cases, younger than 1 month).

my own doctor, who i generally like, told a friend of mine to let her 3 week old "cry a little" because he was the kind of baby she couldn't put down at all. she said that advice felt wrong to her, so she bought a sling instead. now she loves babywearing! so i guess that horrible advice had a silver lining in her case


----------



## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tulafina* 
I am on a mainstream board(not much because I can't stand the women on it) and one girl came on saying she was a horrible mom...the post went on about how she put the happy baby into the swing, closed the nursery door and proceeded to let him scream for 2.5hrs while she had a nap. The baby is 7w old!!!!!









how could she even sleep with her baby crying? i can't sleep through my baby crying even if i am not the one on "baby duty." so like if DH takes her in the morning after the first feeding so i can go back to sleep for a bit, as soon as i hear the first fussy peep out of her mouth, anywhere in the house or on the porch, i'm out of bed looking for her.


----------



## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Totally out of control.

There was a time when I seriously thought that controlled crying (going in every few minutes) was as bad as it got, and that it was strictly used for really really bad sleepers who were over nine months of age (because of object permanence). I wish I was still so naive.


----------



## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
On the mainstream board I frequent, a mother of a newborn talking about having to CIO, or (worse, IMO) "Can I let him CIO yet?" is *generally* greeted with a bunch of people (who are pro-CIO, overall) telling her that there is no way you should CIO a baby that young, that Ferber/Weisbluth say you shouldn't do it before 4 months and some say before 6 months, that you should do whatever it takes, including co-sleeping, to get through the newbornn period.

of course, once the babies are 6mos, then you get the people saying "I think all children have to learn to sleep on their own and its abusive not to help teach them...."

But at least there is very little "Yay! CIO with a 3 week old!"

I think we frequent the same board, and I've seen many discussions of how crunchy that board is compared to real life.







: so I don't think you can extrapolate, but I agree it makes it bearable, added to the fact that you know there are lots of people who'll back you up in suggesting better alternatives.


----------



## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
how could she even sleep with her baby crying? i can't sleep through my baby crying even if i am not the one on "baby duty." so like if DH takes her in the morning after the first feeding so i can go back to sleep for a bit, as soon as i hear the first fussy peep out of her mouth, anywhere in the house or on the porch, i'm out of bed looking for her.

Maybe the baby wouldn't be crying so much if he was loved and cuddled by mommy more...

Quote:

pediatrician advised they make him CIO. He only weighed 5 lbs! Apparently the doctor had said that the nurses in the NICU weren't able to hold him and get him to sleep and would've made him CIO so it's what he was used to and "needed."
To save your sanity, think of this: at the hospital I birthed at, many of the nurses would cuddle and carry the babies around while the moms were in recovery or going to the bathroom or whatever. So maybe, hopefully, there were a few souls like that in the hospital you speak of...


----------



## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

I remember as a teenager, talking to one of my teachers about her young children. She said that she was so happy to have learned about CIO with her first baby that after she gave birth in the hospital to her second child, she put the new baby in his bassinette beside her bed and let him scream until he fell asleep on his own.

I remember thinking, even back then, that this seemed like a strange thing to do to a newborn, but she was adament that it helped him to sleep through the night from the very first day. Yeah, it helped him to not trust her from his very first moments of life... I wonder just how messed up her kids are now....


----------



## babylove2007 (Mar 30, 2007)

I don't know if it's necessarily getting worse or just staying the same. If people are being told this by their MIL's or grandmothers or aging doctors or whoever, then it's probably a throwback to "their day." Sometimes it's scary to think what my parents would have gone through as babies.

I lurk and post on a couple mainstream boards regarding pregnancy, but I think I'll have to leave once I have the baby. I see people deciding to stop bf'ing because their 1-week-old "cries too much and clearly can't tolerate my milk" or letting the 1-week-old cry it out because "I need my 8 hours of sleep." And they usually get oodles of support (if mama's not happy, nobody's happy, etc).







:

We were even told in our newborn-care class never to do any of that, so I'm not sure where some people live that is so baby-unfriendly in its advice.


----------



## lurve (May 5, 2006)

i saw in a parenting book that it is also now being referred to as "controlled crying." ah, euphanisms!
at DD's two month visit i was given a sheet that they had out at all two month visits. it said that to let her cry a little so that she could start to learn how to self-soothe! how ridiculous. what two month old can self-soothe. she couldn't even get her thumb in her mouth until she was four months old! urg...


----------



## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pumpkin_Pie* 
I remember as a teenager, talking to one of my teachers about her young children. She said that she was so happy to have learned about CIO with her first baby that after she gave birth in the hospital to her second child, she put the new baby in his bassinette beside her bed and let him scream until he fell asleep on his own.

I remember thinking, even back then, that this seemed like a strange thing to do to a newborn, but she was adament that it helped him to sleep through the night from the very first day. Yeah, it helped him to not trust her from his very first moments of life... I wonder just how messed up her kids are now....

that seriously makes me want to vomit...can you imagine that poor newborn, so scared in his new world, being laid in a cold plastic bin and left to cry himself to sleep?


----------



## babylove2007 (Mar 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pumpkin_Pie* 
I remember as a teenager, talking to one of my teachers about her young children. She said that she was so happy to have learned about CIO with her first baby that after she gave birth in the hospital to her second child, she put the new baby in his bassinette beside her bed and let him scream until he fell asleep on his own.

I remember thinking, even back then, that this seemed like a strange thing to do to a newborn, but she was adament that it helped him to sleep through the night from the very first day. Yeah, it helped him to not trust her from his very first moments of life... I wonder just how messed up her kids are now....

See, this is what I don't understand. Why in this society is there this demand for babies to "sleep through the night" like adults from Day 1? Do babies have to be adults from Day 1? Where did this come from?


----------



## georgiegirl1974 (Sep 20, 2006)

thank goodness my ped is anti-CIO and pro-co-sleeping

just thinking about newborns crying for their mamas who aren't paying attention to them makes me sick


----------



## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

I think it is epidemic, but I don't think it's the med establishment. I think they are just telling exhausted moms what they want to hear, and I think moms are exhausted because 1)everyone tries to do way too much and 2)people thnk they can have a baby (or two or more plus a job and perfect house and relationship, great social life...)and not have their lives radically change to meet the needs of their infant.

Whenever I read that "babies need to be trained" or "I'm so glad I did this because it so helps DC", I think, bullsh*t. You're doing what's convienent for YOU and looking for validation and support. Don't get me wrong, I'm freaking exhausted and no mom of the year, but I don't try to pass off my shortcuts (morning Cailou, anyone?







: ) and tell myself it's for DS's benefit.

Sorry to rant but CIO advice makes me







:







:







:


----------



## mummyc (Jun 25, 2007)

Wow! My mother is quite mainstream in a lot of ways, but when I asked her about CIO, her response was to look at me like I'd sprouted another nose! Her exact words were, "But she's a _baby_" And she was born in the 1920s...


----------



## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
I think we frequent the same board, and I've seen many discussions of how crunchy that board is compared to real life.







: so I don't think you can extrapolate, but I agree it makes it bearable, added to the fact that you know there are lots of people who'll back you up in suggesting better alternatives.

sounds familiar to me, too







:


----------



## Miasmamma (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
I still remember the poster who was distraught because her DH was listening to his mother and *forbidding* her to pick up her crying 7 week old. She described leaving him lying on the floor or in his crib crying and being told she was "Not allowed" to pick up her baby.

If that had been my DH, he could have gone back to his mother and let her not comfort him while he cried. No power on earth can keep me from picking up my child when they need me.


----------



## timneh_mom (Jun 13, 2005)

My doctor just told me I needed to let Sophie CIO because "she is manipulating you". I told her, "if I were crying in the night and I knew people were ignoring me, how bad would I feel?" She held her ground. Of course when she said this it surprised me, and I couldn't think quickly enough but later I found that the Harvard study was done almost 10 years ago! Also, if I should ignore her cries at night, how about during the day? Do I ignore her then too? Maybe my kids are "lovely" and I am "blessed" because we tend to their needs no matter what time it is? So if I am letting her manipulate me now, she will be robbing me blind when she's 18, so none of my parenting will be worth a hill of beans between now and then? UGH!!







:


----------



## Very Snoofly (Jan 13, 2003)

When I took my first daughter for her 4-day "weight check," the ped asked me how she was sleeping. I said not well, and that she wouldn't sleep anywhere but on my lap (this was before I "discovered" the benefits of co-sleeping -- I'm one of those who did it because I had to and then learned how great it was). Anyway, the ped said, "Have you thought about just letting her cry?"

I was so tired I just mumbled something about not being ready for that yet, but in the past 5 years I've come up with a lot of scathing comebacks that I wish I could've said to him. She was FOUR DAYS OLD!

And speaking of generations past...my mother recently told me that she and my dad left me with my grandma for the weekend when I was about 7 months old. She called after the first night and asked how things went. "Well, she cried a lot," my grandma said. "I just let her, but do you object if I pick her up and rock her tonight?"

My mom was a bit horrified that 1) she had let me cry all night and 2) she felt like she had to ask permission to rock me to sleep. (I guess I'd been sleeping through the night at that point and she hadn't expected me to wake up.) I feel bad for my 7-month-old self.


----------



## jamie79 (Mar 18, 2006)

I was so young and stupid with my first, that I thought you were supposed to use CIO. That was what Ezzo said, right? I couldn't do it, though. I remember wondering why he couldn't sleep in his bassinet beside my bed. Then I figured out, through trial and error, that he slept so soundly beside mommy and daddy, that I didn't even want to bother with anything else. Now that I am older and more informed, I am so glad to see what a good decision it was.

I think a lot of these mothers are so misinformed and still have the mentality that "doctor knows best". I was under the impression that it was not good parenting if you had your child in bed with you, or didn't let them CIO. What I don't understand is how they can keep it going. How can they continually let their babies cry, time after time, especially at such a young age? My mommy instincts thankfully kicked in, and I couldn't let him cry like I was told to.


----------

