# Teacher took photos of dc without our knowledge/consent. WWYD?



## summermay (Apr 11, 2008)

Dc (4) told me this evening that the teacher was taking photographs of every child and of group activities (summercamp).

Is this normal and acceptable? I am a bit concerned and confused. Why didn't she (the teacher) asked us first, we have been chatting and photos have not been mentioned before. On other occassions, accordind to dc, no photos have been taken.

Probably they will use some pictures for advertising etc but I do feel so uncomfortable about this.

What are your thoughts?

Many thanks,
Summer

Update on#109
Pictures and short film clip were taken, but not for general advertising, they will use it more broadly to represent their small school, no names will be published.
I have not signed a waiver when we enrolled dc last year, the new enrollment papers seem all to cover this waiver.

Thank you for your answers, it helped me a lot to get calmer about this situation. However, I will consider if we continue in the fall term.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

IME pictures are normal in the classroom. It's likely that somewhere you already signed a waiver in fact.

-Angela


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## summermay (Apr 11, 2008)

Hi,
I did not give consent on the enrollment form. It was not even asked. It's an arts school and their summercamp, so not a public school.
But maybe I am just overreacting, thanks for your input. It did not occur to me that they would do this without asking parents first and feels strange because I would not never do this. Somehow I just wanted to give dc control over his internet/photos so he can later decide what photos he wants to share with the world...

Many thanks,
Summer


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

hhhmmm...are you sure that in the paperwork there wasn't a blurb about taking pictures for promotional or edicational purposes? it's pretty common to slip it in. If you are really concerned, definitely mention it to the teacher. I'm sure she would be willing to make sure no photos of your child will be used publicly if that is your request.
here, they took pics of all the kids and have them in the class with names and birthday, etc, for the kids to learn from.


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

Yeah...I will bet you there is a disclosure on the forms...it is pretty standard practice. Its possible it is only a few words...

Definitely mention it if it bothers you...Its possible the teacher is making something for your son or you to keep to document his time in camp.


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## summermay (Apr 11, 2008)

Yes, absolutely sure that I did not sign any photo consent form. I always opt out but in this particular school it was not even mentioned.
Normally during term time I attend with him the regular arts classes and they never took any photos.
I will speak to the teacher tomorrow. I was not sure if this is common in the US (we are expats).


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

It wouldn't bother me at all. It is a big jump to assume those photos would be on the internet or in advertising even. I'd think they'd check with you before using them in advertising. If they were taking pix of every kid, I'd assume they might be doing a project that is a frame maybe? And will put the kid pix in the frame before sending it home at the end of camp session?


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
It wouldn't bother me at all. It is a big jump to assume those photos would be on the internet or in advertising even. I'd think they'd check with you before using them in advertising. If they were taking pix of every kid, I'd assume they might be doing a project that is a frame maybe? And will put the kid pix in the frame before sending it home at the end of camp session?

This is what I immediately thought of when you said that the teacher was taking pictures of all of the students. Wouldn't bother me a bit.


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## terrordactyl (Jul 19, 2006)

sounds pretty normal i know in my classroom we take photos all the time but ask the parents before using them in a newsletter or on the website usually the pictures are just for the school and to email to the parents


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## summermay (Apr 11, 2008)

I have thought about a project first too but then these are only 1 day camps, many kids don't come to the term courses either and are there just for a day.
This topic seems to bother me more than I realised ...


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

It seems to be pretty common. Camp counselors have always taken lots of pictures when my kids were in camps.

My older son went on a ranger led hike through the Park and Rec, and a group picture he was in ended up in their next month's brochure!


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## dziwozony (Aug 27, 2006)

seems perfectly harmless & normal to me. i really don't see what the big deal is. what are you afraid of?


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## PatchChild (Sep 1, 2006)

Very normal. IF the pictures are only being used with the kids or in the classroom, there often isn't a consent form. IF they were planning to use them on a website or a news letter or for promotional activities, they'd need your permission.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Sounds normal to me. I agree that I think the consent forum is only needed if they're using it for advertising or something like that. If they just use it within the classroom or for their own scrapbook, they don't need one. But that should mean it won't be on the internet or anything. You can check to make sure.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

I vote normal too. In Dylan's preschool and Ava's daycare I did not even have to sign a waiver. For public school and Dyl's 4H summer camp thing I did.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Normal







I work in a daycare and I take pics of the kids quite often. In the infant room I work in we have a huge wall full of pictures of the kids (both individual pictures and group pictures). We add to it every few weeks. We use the pictures for projects we do with the kids that they can take home. When the child turns 1 and moves to the 1 year old room we take down all their individual pictures and give them to mom/dad to take home. They usually LOVE it. Group pictures we keep.

We never use them on the website or anything. If we did that, we'd ask permission.


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## BAU3 (Dec 10, 2001)

I say its pretty normal, too.

BUT... Many people are considerate about it and ask permission/give a heads up. I believe this is purely courtesy and not required,tho.


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## tndixiemom (Jul 16, 2007)

Normal. My oldest ds was in kindercamp last year. They took a ton of pics and she had made each of the parents a scrapbook of the week. It was very nice. I don't think it is a big deal.


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## EVC (Jan 29, 2006)

I'd say normal. You might want to inquire what the pictures are for, though. At my dd's pre-school they do this all the time, but it is NEVER for public distribution. Rather, at the end of the school year, they create a lovely "memory" book for the parents with all of the pictures (and captions) about the fun things your child did. It is something I look forward to every year so I am quite happy to have them snap away







Any chance there is something similar in the works? Just ask the teacher.


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## spmamma (Sep 2, 2007)

It sounds perfectly normal to me. My mom and MIL are both teachers. Both take photos of their kids every year, and use the photos for various projects in the classroom. If you are concerned about where they are being used, just ask the teacher.


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## chipper26 (Sep 4, 2008)

This is probably different, but as an elementary school teacher, I take pictures of my kids. We use them sometimes at the end of the year for a slide show, or the yearbook. Also, I take pictures of each child and display their picture with their work sometimes. It's just good to have photos of the kids. It's nice to record special activities and just everyday stuff to look back on or to just "publish" on a bulletin board in the hallway for all at school to see. I have photos from years past in my computer that I'm glad I have. I can look back at my students and remember them.

We are not allowed to publish them for public viewing w/o the consent of the parents. For example, in order for a child's picture to go up on our website, we need parental consent.


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## Una (Aug 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *summermay* 
Dc (4) told me this evening that the teacher was taking photographs of every child and of group activities (summercamp).

Is this normal and acceptable? I am a bit concerned and confused. Why didn't she (the teacher) asked us first, we have been chatting and photos have not been mentioned before. On other occassions, accordind to dc, no photos have been taken.

Probably they will use some pictures for advertising etc but I do feel so uncomfortable about this.

What are your thoughts?

Many thanks,
Summer

I don't think they can use photographs of your children for advertising without your consent. I would review all of the paperwork you signed when you enrolled your child(ren) and then speak to the teacher.

I think that the teacher is probably taking pictures for memory books or a similar project. I would ask the teacher to see the photos.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

I think in this day and age, it's normal, not a problem. [ETA: not to use the photos for advertising without your consent, but just the taking the photos.] In this day and age you I think you have to expect that you or your kids could be photographed or filmed almost any time you are out in public (whether or not it's legal). That's just the way it is. If I trusted a camp or teacher with my kids, I would definitely trust them to take pictures and not misuse them.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Its normal at our school. And preschool.

The kids usually get something at the end of the year with photos. We've gotten albums, year books, slideshows at kindergarten graduation.


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## ~Boudicca~ (Sep 7, 2005)

Normal.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

This is very common in a variety of schools and camps. They don't need permission to take photos for internal use at all. For external use they may or may not need your permission, depending on where you are and what they are doing with them. However, as with anything at school/camp, if you are uncomfortable you certainly should ask that your child's photo not be used for anything beyond classroom projects.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

I agree that it's normal, but I also always opt out of my kids' photos being used for advertising purposes, so I know how you feel. I would just ask what the pictures were going to be used for -- if it's an in-class project, then no big deal, but if it'll be displayed anywhere online or in marketing materials, you can tell them not to use any pictures of your kid.


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## ginadc (Jun 13, 2006)

Our daycare takes tons of pictures of the kids and their activities. I've never known them to use them for advertising purposes--they're displayed in the classrooms and public areas, "decorating" the school, and then if it's a shot of just one child, when they're taken down they're given to the parents.

One of the head teachers is a great photographer, and she'll literally have photos of yesterday's event up and printed today. Or in fact, by the end of the day she had photos put up of this exercise event they had during the day. It's great. Everybody loves looking for themselves in the pictures.


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## mamadebug (Dec 28, 2006)

As a teacher, I took pictures in the classroom all the time.

My son's preschool, and some of his classes/activities/camps all take pictures.

I think it it totally normal. The pics are often displayed in the class. My son's preschool teachers used to make a "memory book" each year for each of the children with pictures of all the activities they had done through out the year.


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dziwozony* 
seems perfectly harmless & normal to me. i really don't see what the big deal is. what are you afraid of?

I second this question. What are you afraid of? This seems to really be setting off some issue for you.

If you don't want photos used for advertising, then contact the camp and request that. But it doesn't have to be a big deal.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Taking pictures is a very normal thing in a classroom. My dd has never been in a school, daycare, or daycamp where they didn't take pictures for projects and portfolios. If you don't want your sons picture used for advertising then tell her that. I don't think you should worry about the pictures though.


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

Part of all of my daycare or school agreements has always been about photographs. I either have the option to refuse (public school), or it's part of the deal (daycare). Never bothered me, anyone can take pics any time.


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## inkslinger (May 29, 2009)

Normal..my daughter usually gets her picture taken in various camps, clubs, and classes. A lot of times they use them for a project, like a frame they make to take home, or for the cover of a book of things they have learned. I don't see the issue, but since it bothers you I would just talk to the camp people and ask what it was for and if you can have your daughter's picture removed from whatever it was.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Well, our daycare/preschool has a waiver form that's quite specific. BUT taking photos of the kids is part of the everyday routine. It's how they document what goes on in the classroom. They create a binder and a photo CD for us at the end of the year. I love it.

I'm not worried about my kids' pictures being available. If it bothers you, talk to them! I agree that they should have asked first.


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## kirstenb (Oct 4, 2007)

DS gets pictures taken at daycare all the time. I love it! They are displayed around the classroom so I get a chance to see DS doing the different activities, playing with other kids, etc. The teacher often sends them home with him when they switch them out which I appreciate. I would ask if you are concerned about them being used in advertising but taking them for the classroom wouldn't bother me.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

normal and pretty typical. I would say *not* wanting pictures taken is the exception, so the teacher probably assumes that if you do not want pictures taken you will say something upfront.


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

I posted in another thread how I wouldn't let a stranger photog my children, perv alert, blah blah, but the OP sitch wouldn't bother me at all. If anything, I'd want to see the picture! By the same token, I don't care if my DC's friends parents take pix. If it were for advertising, that'd irk me, but not enough to try to stop it, esp if there were group shots.


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## Jessie123 (Mar 7, 2009)

Normal or not, they can NOT take pics of your child with out your permission. I am aphotographer by trade, and it is illegal to take a photograph of a person under 18 (for ANY reason) without the written consent of the parent. You have every right to be bothered, so be sure to talk to them.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

One time the organization running a workshop DD (then age 4) attended allowed a local paper to come take pictures of all the kids without my knowledge or consent. They published a close-up shot of her along with her first and last name as well as the location of the building the workshop was being held, on the FRONT PAGE of our local paper. That's how I found out she was photographed. I was furious.

People make stupid decisions about the images they take of our children sometimes. That's why I always opt out of that sort of thing, and that's why I don't really like the idea of the people who spend time with DD thinking of her as one of "their" kids they can take pictures of for whatever they want. Those cameras probably go home with the teachers or assistants, and who knows who else has access to them in their households? It annoys me. Yes, cameras are everywhere nowadays, but schools have total unsupervised access to kids. It's not in "public" where being filmed is always a possibility that I can take into consideration.

Also, images of my daughter are special to me, as well as being images of HER. I don't like the idea of people using her image as a moneymaking tool, especially without her consent. School yearbook or specific class project destined for parents only are okay with me if they're okay with her, but I'd like a choice in the matter, thanks.


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## amandaleigh37 (Jul 13, 2006)

Pretty much what they said ^

I worked in a preschool and we used pictures as part of documenting different things the children were able to do. They went in their files with our notes, and were given to the parents at the end of the year.

We also used photos for different classroom activities & projects (that the kids would keep & bring home). Or like making a book of a class trip, which was kept in the classroom for kids to look at. Or we'd put each child's photo in their cubby at the beginning of the year so they knew which one was theirs. Stuff like that.

As part of the enrollment paperwork, parents had to sign a form that had all kinds of consents on it for different things - one was photos to be used for advertising, promotion, etc. They could check no if they didn't want that.

I'd just have a friendly conversation with the teacher to ask what the photos are for. If it's something you're not comfortable with, you have every right to ask that your child's photo not be taken. (In fact, I'd make the request in writing too, just to be sure.)


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## HeatherRenee (Apr 3, 2009)

I would say that it's normal, but I believe that they should have asked for pemission first. There are times when a parent would not want their child's picture taken (safety things and such). More than likely, the picture is going to be used for scrap book of sorts for your child to bring home after camp is done, so the teacher didn't think anything was wrong with it.


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessie123* 
Normal or not, they can NOT take pics of your child with out your permission. I am aphotographer by trade, and it is illegal to take a photograph of a person under 18 (for ANY reason) without the written consent of the parent. You have every right to be bothered, so be sure to talk to them.

This must vary from place to place or we'd never see any celebrity's children.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
This must vary from place to place or we'd never see any celebrity's children.

Right? I mean, they use those photos to make money ~ selling magazines and websites and by extension, the products advertised within those publications as well.

I, personally, have no knowledge of the legality of any of this, though.


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## BAU3 (Dec 10, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebeccajo* 
This must vary from place to place or we'd never see any celebrity's children.

I agree. I think you can't use them for advertising, but i think you can publish them.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I believe that legally anyone can take a photo of anyone IN PUBLIC and do with it what they want. If you're in public, you're fair game.

But in a private setting, like within the classroom, if they are going to use the picture in any kind of public way, they need consent. However, if it's just for classroom projects or something I don't think they need consent.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

you can take pictures of anyone, anytime, anywhere, unless you are tresspassing and then the issue is tresspassing not photographing. You just are suppose to make money off of pictures w/o consent, although, as mentioned earlier, that is a gray area if your are famous!

but if you are nude in your house and have your shades open and I am on the street adn see you, I am legally allowed to take your picture fyi!


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbone_kneegrabber* 
you can take pictures of anyone, anytime, anywhere, unless you are tresspassing and then the issue is tresspassing not photographing. You just are suppose to make money off of pictures w/o consent, although, as mentioned earlier, that is a gray area if your are famous!

but if you are nude in your house and have your shades open and I am on the street adn see you, I am legally allowed to take your picture fyi!

depends on the people involved and what exactly is going on... stalking is illegal. there are some laws that protect people's rights to privacy and to not have to live in fear. it's not just a free-for-all. there is a REASON most daycares and preschools have consent forms; parents have valid concerns regarding the use of their children's images. I was always respected when I requested no photos to be taken of DD, even for school-only use.


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## amynbebes (Aug 28, 2008)

Sounds fairly normal. After the school year I got a picture book from the year for each of my elementary aged kids.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

I thought of another reason why they may take the kids' pictures - to do a "who's who" board on the wall. So staff as well as other kids can learn the names of the kids in camp.


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## pauletoy (Aug 26, 2007)

I would double check all paperwork from enrollment. Any enrollment papers we have ever signed included photo consent.


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## borbonmamma (Jul 11, 2009)

It's pretty normal, relax.


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## Gentle~Mommy :) (Apr 21, 2009)

It wouldn't bother me at all.


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## MamieCole (Jun 1, 2007)

As a former teacher, I've had first-hand experience with a parent who refused to allow her child to be photographed. She made no allowances.Not even for class projects that were to be sent home as gifts for the parents. No pics. Period. She even refused to allow an aerial group photograph of our entire student body to be used in the yearbook because her son was in it. He was one little face in a sea of over 600 more children. No names were being used. We had to have the entire student body congregate again to have the picture retaken without her child in it. In whole-school activities such as field day and walk-a-thons, someone had to carefully proof all of the photos before putting them in the yearbook to make sure her child wasn't in the background of any of them. She was so paranoid about it, we often wondered if she had actually stolen the child and was worried that his real parents or the police would see his pic and take him back.









I completely understand and respect any parent's wishes that their child's photo not be used on the internet or for advertising purposes, but to be uncomfortable with your child being photographed at all (and not for religious reasons) is just beyond me.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamieCole* 
She was so paranoid about it, we often wondered if she had actually stolen the child and was worried that his real parents or the police would see his pic and take him back.









More likely running from an abusive ex.


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## ivymae (Nov 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionTigerBear* 
More likely running from an abusive ex.









That was my guess also. When I worked at a summer camp, we were not allowed to take photos of any of the children in fostercare, since a number of them were taken from abusive situations.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

My ds' summer camp had some sort of blurb in their privacy policy.


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## GoestoShow (Jul 15, 2009)

.


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## VisionaryMom (Feb 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionTigerBear* 
More likely running from an abusive ex.










That was my first thought as well. Been there.

When I was a reporter, our newspaper's rule was that we depended on the school or other organization to have permission from parents to use children's pictures and names. They would let us know if a certain child was not permitted to be in a photo. For public situations, we had to verify with a parent or guardian.

Taking photos of people under 18 is not illegal, at least not in anywhere I've worked in journalism. Taking photos of large-scale events would be impossible if that were the law.


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## mommysarah5 (Jun 22, 2009)

Legally they can't use anything without consent.

I would look over your copy of the forms and see if maybe you signed something by accident though (I really think its important to have a copy of those forms in hand before appraoching the teacher) and if there was nothing there and they try to use the pictures for anything you can say, forms in hand, I did not consent to this and it is not legal for you to use these photos without my permission.

If there is no mention of it on the forms, than I think that is really foolish, and to be honest I don't know if that's the kind of people I'd want caring for my kids if they can't even cover something as basic as a photo waiver when they know they are going to be taking pictures. Thats just me though. In the end, the photo issue in itself is not a big deal, for me.


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## fork (Feb 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverWillow* 
depends on the people involved and what exactly is going on... stalking is illegal. there are some laws that protect people's rights to privacy and to not have to live in fear. it's not just a free-for-all. there is a REASON most daycares and preschools have consent forms; parents have valid concerns regarding the use of their children's images. I was always respected when I requested no photos to be taken of DD, even for school-only use.


Actually, in a stalking situation, it is usually the case of a restraining order being broken. If you are close enough to your victim to take their picture, you are most likely close enough to be violating a restraining order. Again, the picture taking isn't the illegal part.

As far as consent forms in schools, this is only for commercial purposes. They can take pictures of your kid all they want for non-commercial purposes. Opt-out forms are to keep the customer(parents) happy in situations where they don't want their kids photographed at all, but are not legally required. If it's a public school, the state probably has regulations about it, but that is the same as a mall owner having rules about photographing on their property. Most photographers/organizations have people sign release forms at the beginning just to make it easy if later they decide that the awesome picture of your kid would look great on an ad.

For photographing on private property, that is at the discretion of the owner. The school could have a policy to photograph everyone that comes in every day if they wanted. The customer(parent) could choose to not agree with this and find a different camp/school/daycare/etc. to send their kid to.

I deal with this every day. Most of my work is street photography and you would be surprised by how many business get twitchy and send out security people to bug me if I happen to be shooting near their building.

There is so much mis-information about photographer's rights out there. If you have any doubt, just look at a tabloid. 99% of those pictures are taken within the law. If someone desired so, your, or your kid's, picture could be taken in that exact same situation and you would have no legal recourse.


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverWillow* 
One time the organization running a workshop DD (then age 4) attended allowed a local paper to come take pictures of all the kids without my knowledge or consent. They published a close-up shot of her along with her first and last name as well as the location of the building the workshop was being held, on the FRONT PAGE of our local paper. That's how I found out she was photographed. I was furious.

People make stupid decisions about the images they take of our children sometimes. That's why I always opt out of that sort of thing, and that's why I don't really like the idea of the people who spend time with DD thinking of her as one of "their" kids they can take pictures of for whatever they want. Those cameras probably go home with the teachers or assistants, and who knows who else has access to them in their households? It annoys me. Yes, cameras are everywhere nowadays, but schools have total unsupervised access to kids. It's not in "public" where being filmed is always a possibility that I can take into consideration.

Also, images of my daughter are special to me, as well as being images of HER. I don't like the idea of people using her image as a moneymaking tool, especially without her consent. School yearbook or specific class project destined for parents only are okay with me if they're okay with her, but I'd like a choice in the matter, thanks.

My kids have been photographed several times at library and other public events and made it into the paper. It is very exciting for them to see themselves in the paper, they feel FAMOUS, it is an exhilarating feeling! All of our family and friends have been excited to see them in the paper as well.


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## Belia (Dec 22, 2007)

When I taught elementary school I took pictures of my students all the time. Sometimes the pics were for a project for/by them.... sometimes they were for MY personal use. As in- I loved my students and worked hard for them and with them everyday. We were a family of sorts after spending 7 hours a day together for 9 months. And sometimes I put a ton of effort into a project / activity and I wanted a record of my hard work. It's 10 years later and i still look back at those pictures occasionally and play "Remember when..."


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

When I was a teacher I took photos all the time. Every single day, in fact. I used them in all sorts of ways. Books, displays, activities, cards. It enriches the kids' experience, and I did it even though it cost me a fortune back then for processing films and printing pictures.

My ds's preschool have photos all the time too. It's a co-op, and most parents have cameras there at some point. I love it. We have files for each child, and if someone has a good pic of a child, they print it out and put it in there for the family. We then use the pics for end of year memory books.

I can't imagine being upset that my kid was photographed. Sure, I'd not want them photographed and put up in some dubious manner on the internet, but if its by a teacher who I presumably trust as I've entrusted my child to him/her, I don't understand the concern.

I might ask what the photos are for, but that's about as far as I'd worry.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

This is very common practice in schools in the U.S.


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## FallingLeaves (Nov 30, 2006)

I haven't read all of the posts but when I taught I took lots of pictures of my students. Many times, it was for projects that the students were going to make for their parents. I also liked to create a scrapbook for each school year to remember the students.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

i can't think of a single class or activity my kids have been in that didn't involve pictures.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

I think it's great that some people and their kids enjoy being in the paper. Of course my kid enjoyed it, but this group used an image of my child's face to promote their business. They made MONEY off her whether she minded or not; they didn't care to ask her or me for permission. Frankly, I don't understand the resistance here to *some* parents having an issue with stuff like this. it bothers me. so what? To me this is an issue of my kid's rights to some sort of control over the use of her image. The content of advertising images in the U.S often promote social norms I (or DD) disagrees with-- white privilege, male privilege, gender stereotypes, heterosexism, the list goes on. It's part of my parenting philosophy to respect her physical self, and I guess photographic representations of her, in MY humble, personal, and rightful opinion as her parent, fall under the same idea. maybe that's not how most people think, but most people think people who EBF, cosleep, CD, homebirth etc are crazy too. *shrug*


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## Greenmama2AJ (Jan 10, 2008)

I am a highschool teacher in a large highschool.

There is a huge list of 200+ students at our school whose parents *do not* want photo's of their children taken, full stop. You are not alone.

Whenever I take photos of students I have to check the list before printing or publishing them. This is for a whole set of legal, safety and privacy reasons. Just because most people are ignorant of the legalities of taking pictures of children in classrooms doesn't mean that laws don't exist. They do.

I would speak to the teacher and just request that no photos are taken of your child. It doesn't matter why you don't want the photo's taken, or really even what the photos are for, you have the right to say No thankyou.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Belia* 
When I taught elementary school I took pictures of my students all the time. Sometimes the pics were for a project for/by them.... sometimes they were for MY personal use. As in- I loved my students and worked hard for them and with them everyday. We were a family of sorts after spending 7 hours a day together for 9 months. And sometimes I put a ton of effort into a project / activity and I wanted a record of my hard work. It's 10 years later and i still look back at those pictures occasionally and play "Remember when..."

DD's kindy teacher took individual pics of the kids with the school's camera, which stayed AT the school, for the purpose of making personalized holiday projects for the kids' families. That was ok with me. I would be very uncomfortable with any teacher of DD's, male or female, though, specifically taking a photo of just her, for his/her own personal use at home. I wouldn't see any need for it. Why wouldn't those special memories be attached to whatever the memory is of: that trip to the apple orchard or the school's fall festival or whatever? I wouldn't want DD's teacher just taking a pic of her face for no other reason than she fact that he or she wanted one to keep at home. I wouldn't allow it.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Every teacher dd has had for the last 3 years has done. I never thought a thing about it actually. I get some cute snap shots sent home at the end of the year out of it







She is in public school by the way. I fully expect the same will happen for ds.


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## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

I'm pretty sure it's normal but if you don't feel comfortable then you should tell them. You should not be required to allow them to share photos of your children.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessie123* 
Normal or not, they can NOT take pics of your child with out your permission. I am aphotographer by trade, and it is illegal to take a photograph of a person under 18 (for ANY reason) without the written consent of the parent. You have every right to be bothered, so be sure to talk to them.

nak

not a photog but I was thinking this as well. perhaps yours had a form missing, or it was an oversight in the main form.

i would have been pissed as we also opt out of photo stuff. at our local ymca i was taking pix of my daughter & her dad and actually had to delete them because some other kids got in and no waiver had been signed (ooops! I should have asked).

i also had to sign a waiver for my daughter's pre-school.

i agree that you should mention it, no need to make a big deal, and if your daughter goes next year perhaps note on the main waiver your photo prefs (ok it w/you ahead of time, do not use for ads).


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverWillow* 
I think it's great that some people and their kids enjoy being in the paper. Of course my kid enjoyed it, but this group used an image of my child's face to promote their business. They made MONEY off her whether she minded or not; they didn't care to ask her or me for permission. Frankly, I don't understand the resistance here to *some* parents having an issue with stuff like this. it bothers me. so what? To me this is an issue of my kid's rights to some sort of control over the use of her image. The content of advertising images in the U.S often promote social norms I (or DD) disagrees with-- white privilege, male privilege, gender stereotypes, heterosexism, the list goes on. It's part of my parenting philosophy to respect her physical self, and I guess photographic representations of her, in MY humble, personal, and rightful opinion as her parent, fall under the same idea. maybe that's not how most people think, but most people think people who EBF, cosleep, CD, homebirth etc are crazy too. *shrug*

Of course you have every right to feel this way, but you need to inform the school if you expect them to follow your wishes. It is very normal for schools to do this.

Our family are vegetarian, so when I sent DS to school, I informed the school and wrote it on his forms. If I hadn't informed them that DS was vegetarian, and they fed him the hot dogs instead of the tofu dogs, then that would have been my fault. Since I did inform them, they asked me to get him tofu dogs for that day.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
Of course you have every right to feel this way, but you need to inform the school if you expect them to follow your wishes. It is very normal for schools to do this.

Our family are vegetarian, so when I sent DS to school, I informed the school and wrote it on his forms. If I hadn't informed them that DS was vegetarian, and they fed him the hot dogs instead of the tofu dogs, then that would have been my fault. Since I did inform them, they asked me to get him tofu dogs for that day.

it may be common to *take* pictures, but to use them for advertising purposes without written permission is most definitely not. and technically many schools DO require permission even for the taking of the photos. seriously, using your kids in an ad without asking you, normal? that's illegal.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverWillow* 
it may be common to *take* pictures, but to use them for advertising purposes without written permission is most definitely not.

I read your previous post and I personally would not consider printing a picture of my child on the front page of the local newspaper as advertising.


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## Sarah W (Feb 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
IME pictures are normal in the classroom. It's likely that somewhere you already signed a waiver in fact.

-Angela

I agree. In DD's daycare, there was a form giving consent to have their pics taken. We get little ornaments at Christmas time, Mother's/Father's Day cards, etc and they all have her pics on them. Her cubby has a pic of her on it, etc. They love taking pics and sending them home and I really enjoy it.


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## WC_hapamama (Sep 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shaina* 
sounds pretty normal i know in my classroom we take photos all the time but ask the parents before using them in a newsletter or on the website usually the pictures are just for the school and to email to the parents

That's pretty standard around here. The preschool that my kids have gone to does take pictures of the kids, but it's usually for art projects or for posting in the classroom. The pictures that are not used in art projects that go home are given to us at the end of the term.

In the public school district, the teachers do take photos of the students, but they're generally for classroom or yearbook use only... and the candids used in the yearbooks are never labeled with the student's name. On very rare occasions, teachers will ask to use photos of students involved in a classroom activity, or a sample of their work, for other purposes, but they always ask first.

The school district has a separate consent form for posting pictures or school work on the website, in newsletters, or for promotional materials used for fundraising (for the affiliated education foundation).

edited to add... I do allow the school to use my children's work, but do not consent to their images being used for fundraising.


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## olliepop (Jun 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
IME pictures are normal in the classroom. It's likely that somewhere you already signed a waiver in fact.

-Angela









:
When dd was three, she attended The Goddard School. At the bottom of one of their enrollment forms was a small blurb about photography with two boxes to check: one giving permission for them to take photos for classroom use only and the other giving permission for them to take and use photos for advertising for the school. I chose the former, but remember talking to parents who checked the latter hoping to see their child's face on a school brochure.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I seriously do not get why people get so worked up about this. Sorry. I always figure--my REAL, LIVE child is in public all the time. She is not going around veiled like Michael Jackson's kids. If someone wants to fixate on her, they can fixate on the time they saw her at the grocery store.

I don't understand the attachment to one's child's image. Anybody could be taking pictures of them anytime you are out of the house. What are you going to do, tackle anyone you see with a camera at any event?

At DD's preschool one or two of the parents refused to give permission and now they can only take pictures of the kids' hands, feet, back of their heads, etc. I just think this is odd.

All this said, I would not want her picture used in advertising without my permission, but that's really different, IMO.

ETA: At the school she will attend next year we were required to sign a form stating that the school can take pictures. There was no way to opt out.


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

Quote:

If someone wants to fixate on her, they can fixate on the time they saw her at the grocery store.
That's the way I think too. With the exception of unique situations (hiding from an abusive ex, witness protection, etc) I opt for pictures being taking of children at school - I think it's done to provide parents with a glimpse of what their children are doing when they're not there. I wish I could be a fly on the wall watching them anyways







, so I'm grateful that the teachers take the time to capture some of what they are doing.

If I didn't trust the teachers at DC's school, for any reason, my children simply wouldn't be in that program.


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## Crunchie (Jan 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverWillow* 
I think it's great that some people and their kids enjoy being in the paper. Of course my kid enjoyed it, but this group used an image of my child's face to promote their business. They made MONEY off her whether she minded or not; they didn't care to ask her or me for permission. Frankly, I don't understand the resistance here to *some* parents having an issue with stuff like this. it bothers me. so what? To me this is an issue of my kid's rights to some sort of control over the use of her image. The content of advertising images in the U.S often promote social norms I (or DD) disagrees with-- white privilege, male privilege, gender stereotypes, heterosexism, the list goes on. It's part of my parenting philosophy to respect her physical self, and I guess photographic representations of her, in MY humble, personal, and rightful opinion as her parent, fall under the same idea. maybe that's not how most people think, but most people think people who EBF, cosleep, CD, homebirth etc are crazy too. *shrug*









:

I have a real issue with people taking photos of me or my child without asking. Call me weird, but to me, it's an issue of privacy and respect. Sure we go out in public all of the time and anyone can see us--but that's different than someone getting to produce a permanent image in the likeness of one of us. Don't get me wrong--I love photos--I just don't want anyone else taking them of us without asking. This goes for family members as well. Of course I want our family to have pictures of us and our little one, but they need to ask or let me know first.

Seriously, my in-laws are the rudest, most obnoxious people when it comes to cameras and photos. You can't walk in their door without at least two cameras coming at you, snapping in your face, and then capturing every moment/action of your time there (and they only live 7 miles from us--we see them several times a week. they are not like this because we only see them occasionally, in which case I might have a bit more understanding). It is rude and disrespectful, and after trying to politely explain why I didn't like it, I got rather, um, forceful and told them they weren't taking _any_ photos of my child, period. They got the point and for the most part they now _ask_, which was all I really wanted. I recently had another incident with my in-laws, however, when they forced my child to pose with my nieces for a photo of all of their grandkids. Now, I'm ok that they wanted this photo, it would have been cute--but, without me or my husband there (dh was there but outside), my child was forced to do something he was uncomfortable with without regard to his feelings. I can't tell you how shocked and scared my little boy looks in that photo (I'm sure he just didn't want to sit still, and they made him sit anyway, which confused and upset him). I burst into tears when I saw the look on my baby's face. I felt so helpless and that I wasn't there to say "no!" for my child.

I digress. 







My point is, is I think it's quite reasonable if you want permission before people take photos of your child. I wouldn't have a problem with photos being taken of my child in a classroom setting--if I was told first and asked for permission. As far as newspapers/other publications, I would be rather hostile if a photo of my child (along with a full name!) turned up in one without permission. My issue with my in-laws is one of respect, but the issue with the newspaper could be one of safety for the family and child. As far as I know, that's illegal (though I'm not exactly sure). I have a friend who is a journalist/photographer for our local paper, and he always has to get permission and full name of those he photographs if he intends to publish the image. Maybe this is just his paper's policy, I'm not sure.


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverWillow* 
it may be common to *take* pictures, but to use them for advertising purposes without written permission is most definitely not. and technically many schools DO require permission even for the taking of the photos. seriously, using your kids in an ad without asking you, normal? that's illegal.

how is using a photo on a the front of a newspaper advertising?


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crunchie* 







:

I have a real issue with people taking photos of me or my child without asking. Call me weird, but to me, it's an issue of privacy and respect. Sure we go out in public all of the time and anyone can see us--but that's different than someone getting to produce a permanent image in the likeness of one of us. Don't get me wrong--I love photos--I just don't want anyone else taking them of us without asking. This goes for family members as well. Of course I want our family to have pictures of us and our little one, but they need to ask or let me know first.

Seriously, my in-laws are the rudest, most obnoxious people when it comes to cameras and photos. You can't walk in their door without at least two cameras coming at you, snapping in your face, and then capturing every moment/action of your time there (and they only live 7 miles from us--we see them several times a week. they are not like this because we only see them occasionally, in which case I might have a bit more understanding). It is rude and disrespectful, and after trying to politely explain why I didn't like it, I got rather, um, forceful and told them they weren't taking _any_ photos of my child, period. They got the point and for the most part they now _ask_, which was all I really wanted. I recently had another incident with my in-laws, however, when they forced my child to pose with my nieces for a photo of all of their grandkids. Now, I'm ok that they wanted this photo, it would have been cute--but, without me or my husband there (dh was there but outside), my child was forced to do something he was uncomfortable with without regard to his feelings. I can't tell you how shocked and scared my little boy looks in that photo (I'm sure he just didn't want to sit still, and they made him sit anyway, which confused and upset him). I burst into tears when I saw the look on my baby's face. I felt so helpless and that I wasn't there to say "no!" for my child.

I digress.







My point is, is I think it's quite reasonable if you want permission before people take photos of your child. I wouldn't have a problem with photos being taken of my child in a classroom setting--if I was told first and asked for permission. As far as newspapers/other publications, I would be rather hostile if a photo of my child (along with a full name!) turned up in one without permission. My issue with my in-laws is one of respect, but the issue with the newspaper could be one of safety for the family and child. As far as I know, that's illegal (though I'm not exactly sure). I have a friend who is a journalist/photographer for our local paper, and he always has to get permission and full name of those he photographs if he intends to publish the image. Maybe this is just his paper's policy, I'm not sure.

that's rather hostile and rude to require your child's FAMILY to ask permission to take their picture. I imagine they were aghast and amazed that their daughter in law would not allow them to take pictures of their own grandchildren. I've never heard such a thing.


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Some teachers feel very attached to their students. I'm sure it was an innocent act and wouldn't make a big deal of it at all unless had reason to believe otherwise.


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## Crunchie (Jan 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2maya* 
that's rather hostile and rude to require your child's FAMILY to ask permission to take their picture. I imagine they were aghast and amazed that their daughter in law would not allow them to take pictures of their own grandchildren. I've never heard such a thing.

Well, as rude and disrespectful as they are when taking pictures (do you think it's ok for family to hold your LO down and force a picture, even though they are scared and crying, just because they are "family"?), and because they disregarded my attempts to explain my position, the situation required a "hostile and rude" response. Just because they are family doesn't mean that they get to disrespect my wishes and do things that make me or my child uncomfortable.

To further explain, I don't expect them to ask permission for every snap. They usually just ask "hey, is it ok if we bring the camera out and get some shots of the kids playing?" Or, "can we all get together for a few group photos?" Where before they got in your face (literally), snapped pictures as you were coming in the door, taking your shoes off, eating, throwing something away, talking to others.....all. the. time. every. single. second. to the point of absolute ridiculousness. I don't mean snapping occasional candid shots, I mean just constant picture taking. Very, very rude. My response was not about the act of taking pictures, per se--it was about how invasive and disrespectful they were.

Oh, and I assure you, there are things that I do/have done that they have been far more "aghast and amazed" about.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverWillow* 
it may be common to *take* pictures, but to use them for advertising purposes without written permission is most definitely not. and technically many schools DO require permission even for the taking of the photos. seriously, using your kids in an ad without asking you, normal? that's illegal.

Why do you think the photos would be used for advertising? As poster after poster has mentioned, it is very common for schools to use pictures for projects. I've gotten several of these projects sent home with DS, such as the mother's day one where he decorated a frame and they put a picture of him in it. They also hang photos of the kids in the room with their names underneath. One time they did want to use a photo of one of DS's classmates on their website, they asked his dads permission and sent a consent form home with him.

ETA: Consent forms are to avoid civil lawsuits, not criminal prosecution.


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## Crunchie (Jan 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
Why do you think the photos would be used for advertising? As poster after poster has mentioned, it is very common for schools to use pictures for projects. I've gotten several of these projects sent home with DS, such as the mother's day one where he decorated a frame and they put a picture of him in it. They also hang photos of the kids in the room with their names underneath. One time they did want to use a photo of one of DS's classmates on their website, they asked his dads permission and sent a consent form home with him.

ETA: Consent forms are to avoid civil lawsuits, not criminal prosecution.

I think that, in the OP's case, the pictures were taken as part of some sort of camp. So there was a possibility of photos being used in brochures and/or other forms of advertisment.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crunchie* 
Well, as rude and disrespectful as they are when taking pictures (do you think it's ok for family to hold your LO down and force a picture, even though they are scared and crying, just because they are "family"?),

But this isn't about the photos. If you ILs bought your DS a really cute t-shirt (that you loved, but that he didn't want to wear,) then held him down while stripping off his clothes and forced it on him, you would be just as upset with their behavior. However, you wouldn't think of the _t-shirt_ as being the problem, you would just see it as a general disrespect for your child.


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## deny_zoo29 (Sep 21, 2008)

It's very normal to take pictures of group events. I work at a martial arts school and we take pictures of the kids in class and during graduations, as well as the two summer campouts we have. The parents sign a waiver of liability for injury but we've never had them sign a photo release...of course we've never had anyone be upset with the picture taking/displaying of pics on our bulletin board and on our website. I wouldn't be worried about it.


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## Crunchie (Jan 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
But this isn't about the photos. If you ILs bought your DS a really cute t-shirt (that you loved, but that he didn't want to wear,) then held him down while stripping off his clothes and forced it on him, you would be just as upset with their behavior. However, you wouldn't think of the _t-shirt_ as being the problem, you would just see it as a general disrespect for your child.

Yes. It is about general direspect for me with regard to my in-laws. I tried to express that in my post--that with them, it's not the photos, it's the act of taking the photos that bothers me. However, in general, I feel that photos are an invasion of privacy which can either be welcome or unwanted. As such, I feel that permission needs to be gained first. Just like I wouldn't let anyone touch me without having first gained permission (or at least recognition that it was wanted/accepted)--it's personal. I realize that I look at photos a bit different than the majority here, but that's just my opinion (and I think that I'm entitled to it, especially where my child is concerned)...









ETA: I'm not trying to argue that it's not normal for photos to be taken at schools/camps, etc. I think it is, and in general not a big deal--I just wanted to offer support to the OP. That her feelings on the matter shouldn't be dismissed as invalid. If she's truly uncomfortable with those photos being taken, she has every right to vocalize it. We all have differing levels of comfort on certain things, and I think that that is ok.


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## fork (Feb 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessie123* 
Normal or not, they can NOT take pics of your child with out your permission. I am aphotographer by trade, and it is illegal to take a photograph of a person under 18 (for ANY reason) without the written consent of the parent. You have every right to be bothered, so be sure to talk to them.


Except this is flat out wrong. In a public place, or a private place with owners permission, you can take a picture of who or whatever you want (with very few exceptions), including children. You can check out your rights as a photographer here: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

Permission is only needed to sell/use for advertising pictures of people or children and sometimes property.

The press works differently. They DO NOT need your permission to publish a picture of you, the front of your house, your kid, or really anything. If a member of the press is at your kid's school to cover an event, your kid may just end up in the paper, and there is really nothing you can do about it except keep them home or away from the activities.

School policies are not laws. In most cases they are there to prevent lawsuits. They follow the opt out forms so strictly because they don't want to get sued if they post a picture of a kid in the school newsletter and abusive dad find outs where the family lives and causes harm.


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

It is normal around here. A lot of places we go we sign a waiver, even the YMCA says that if you don't want to be in pictures, you have to tell the photographer. (which seems like it could be a problematic way of doing it, because you don't always notice the photographer).

Personally, I take a LOT of pictures of my kids, and other kids are often in the pictures. I only blur the faces of other kids in more private settings when I don't know the parents.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crunchie* 
ETA: I'm not trying to argue that it's not normal for photos to be taken at schools/camps, etc. I think it is, and in general not a big deal--I just wanted to offer support to the OP. That her feelings on the matter shouldn't be dismissed as invalid. If she's truly uncomfortable with those photos being taken, she has every right to vocalize it. We all have differing levels of comfort on certain things, and I think that that is ok.









I agree. There's nothing wrong with not wanting pictures of her kid taken/used. We all have our issues that bother us and those that don't.

In these types of posts, even if the specific thing being done in the OP doesn't bother me, I try to think of a situation that _would_ bother me and answer based on how I would handle that. So if a school taking pics of my kid was a non-issue for me, I'd try to think how I'd feel if the school did something else with my kid; something I _do_ feel strongly about, the way the OP feels strongly about not having her kid's picture taken.

For example, some people might take issue with a school using time-outs when it wasn't listed anywhere in the enrollment paperwork that that was a form of discipline the school used. IMO, it isn't that useful to chime in just to say "that doesn't bother me."


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## kcstar (Mar 20, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *deny_zoo29* 
It's very normal to take pictures of group events. I work at a martial arts school and we take pictures of the kids in class and during graduations, as well as the two summer campouts we have. The parents sign a waiver of liability for injury but we've never had them sign a photo release...of course we've never had anyone be upset with the picture taking/displaying of pics on our bulletin board and on our website. I wouldn't be worried about it.

Our martial arts instructor took pictures pretty regularly, they're used on the website and in brochures. I've never minded. Tournaments always have a photography waiver embedded in the registration form, no opt out. (With so many people at the event, it's impossible to guarantee that no parent anywhere will catch your child in a shot.)

I do not see pictures of my son as that big a deal. My sister posts the occasional picture openly on the web, though without names. I post them with privacy controls on.

A photograph of my sister & I appeared in the Diocese newspaper when we were young, we thought it was cool.

To me, the "control of one's image" comes across as... well,... expecting the child to be some kind of superstar. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. In my opinion, the best way to control one's own image is to pay attention to personal grooming / clothing style / situation.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2maya* 
how is using a photo on a the front of a newspaper advertising?

This is the free local paper that is delivered to the doorstep of all 9000+ people in our town, including the ~100 sex offenders against children here. Her photo, FULL name, age, name of the center, the address of the center, and the dates/times of the workshop (she would be there another week) were all posted on the front page of the paper, along with a longish blurb promoting the center and that specific workshop. It's not a nonprofit place, and turned out to be the kind of place I would not recommend to others. They were hoping to get more signups.

Still not understanding the arguments here. So, because she is in public frequently, there's no point in taking measures to protect her? Nobody here has ever told their DC not to tell strangers their names (first, much less LAST) or where they go to school? Are you paranoid if you do? DD was 4 at the time and probably would have gone with anyone who showed up and told her mommy said it was ok, and sadly, I've seen children released on strangers' say-so's many times from classes or daycares. All they had to do was ASK me. I would certainly have wanted her last name off the front page!

Don't really see where all the outrage is coming from. I honstly don't care the tiniest bit what anyone else does with their kids' images. It matters to me, as do many things that might not be mainstream. Many things that are legal are categorically regarded as unacceptable on MDC; I am trying to respect my child's rights here. Many schools keep track of who does and doesn't mind, and they are being paid to respect those wishes. It's not that hard to ask someone if the local paper can put a kid and all their personal info on the front page.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kcstar* 
To me, the "control of one's image" comes across as... well,... expecting the child to be some kind of superstar. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. In my opinion, the best way to control one's own image is to pay attention to personal grooming / clothing style / situation.


no, not coming from that angle at all-- quite the opposite. I don't give a fig about whether she's appropriately groomed or a superstar.







It's an *ethical* issue. Let's say some anti- (insert political issue dear to your heart here) group used your kid's image to promote their agenda and solicit donations. It's not that far from what happened in my case, but just in theory. I didn't mind photos being taken for stuff that stays in school and is just for class parents. But this bothered me. The center didn't turn out to be a good pace. They should have asked so I could ask DD; it's about respecting her privacy and safety as well. I definitely would have wanted her to have a say in the mass publication of her image and personal info.


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## Jennifer Z (Sep 15, 2002)

I went back and read some of the responses. I guess I am "rude" because I take my camera everywhere and take a lot of pictures.

I routinely take huge amounts of photos of family gatherings and often playgroups, trips to parks/museums/swimming/around town, and of course, special events. Heck, I have been known to take 100 photos of the kids in a 3-5 minute time span in the back yard. lol. My son, in particular, is incredibly difficult to photograph, which is another reason I take so many.

People ask me for photos all the time. I am also very careful to not publish photos (on my private blog) of others that I would not want public myself....like if they have a goofy expression, or I caught them half blinking, or their hair is doing something really goofy and doesn't fit in the picture (we live in Kansas, so there is constant wind, so hair straight up in a "nice" picture can be an issue).

I have always loved photos, but discovered that it was a huge help for my son and language development to have the pictures. That changed my picture style from "special event only" to "daily life" because it allowed us to work on sequencing and gave him the visual support to "tell me what you did today". It changed how I took pictures, and now I am in the habit of doing it.

I can't even fathom being upset at a family member for taking photos of my kids. I just can't. They are family. And it wouldn't even occur to me to ask "permission" to take photos of my own grandkids. That just seems over the top to me.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer Z* 
I went back and read some of the responses. I guess I am "rude" because I take my camera everywhere and take a lot of pictures.

I routinely take huge amounts of photos of family gatherings and often playgroups, trips to parks/museums/swimming/around town, and of course, special events. Heck, I have been known to take 100 photos of the kids in a 3-5 minute time span in the back yard. lol. My son, in particular, is incredibly difficult to photograph, which is another reason I take so many.

People ask me for photos all the time. I am also very careful to not publish photos (on my private blog) of others that I would not want public myself....like if they have a goofy expression, or I caught them half blinking, or their hair is doing something really goofy and doesn't fit in the picture (we live in Kansas, so there is constant wind, so hair straight up in a "nice" picture can be an issue).

I have always loved photos, but discovered that it was a huge help for my son and language development to have the pictures. That changed my picture style from "special event only" to "daily life" because it allowed us to work on sequencing and gave him the visual support to "tell me what you did today". It changed how I took pictures, and now I am in the habit of doing it.

I can't even fathom being upset at a family member for taking photos of my kids. I just can't. They are family. And it wouldn't even occur to me to ask "permission" to take photos of my own grandkids. That just seems over the top to me.

It sounds like it's not a problem for you or your family the way it is with the other poster who mentioned it.

Honestly, why is it so difficult for people to put themselves in others' shoes? Just because things are peachy with your family you can't understand why other people might have a problem with theirs, or why the picture-taking might be part of a larger pattern of invasiveness?


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## not now (Mar 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fork* 
Except this is flat out wrong. In a public place, or a private place with owners permission, you can take a picture of who or whatever you want (with very few exceptions), including children. You can check out your rights as a photographer here: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

Permission is only needed to sell/use for advertising pictures of people or children and sometimes property.

The press works differently. They DO NOT need your permission to publish a picture of you, the front of your house, your kid, or really anything. If a member of the press is at your kid's school to cover an event, your kid may just end up in the paper, and there is really nothing you can do about it except keep them home or away from the activities.

School policies are not laws. In most cases they are there to prevent lawsuits. They follow the opt out forms so strictly because they don't want to get sued if they post a picture of a kid in the school newsletter and abusive dad find outs where the family lives and causes harm.

I think this correct. Think about it, how many pictures of celebrity kids are taken by the paparazzi on a daily basis? Go to any celeb gossip site and there are tons of pictures of Madonna, Britney, Angelina, ect out walking around with their kids. Most of them don't want their kids photographed and ask that the paparazzi stop but nothing can really be done about it because they are out in a public place.

If it weren't for newspaper clippings my MIL would not have half the scrapbook she has now for her sons. My husband was photographed for tons of events as a child, she said she would open the paper and get excited if he was in it. No one ever asked her, she didn't care. It just depends on the parent.

I would simply ask what the photographs are being used for and if you're not comfortable with it, tell them. Simple as that.


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## Crunchie (Jan 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jennifer Z* 
I went back and read some of the responses. I guess I am "rude" because I take my camera everywhere and take a lot of pictures.

I routinely take huge amounts of photos of family gatherings and often playgroups, trips to parks/museums/swimming/around town, and of course, special events. Heck, I have been known to take 100 photos of the kids in a 3-5 minute time span in the back yard. lol. My son, in particular, is incredibly difficult to photograph, which is another reason I take so many.

People ask me for photos all the time. I am also very careful to not publish photos (on my private blog) of others that I would not want public myself....like if they have a goofy expression, or I caught them half blinking, or their hair is doing something really goofy and doesn't fit in the picture (we live in Kansas, so there is constant wind, so hair straight up in a "nice" picture can be an issue).

I have always loved photos, but discovered that it was a huge help for my son and language development to have the pictures. That changed my picture style from "special event only" to "daily life" because it allowed us to work on sequencing and gave him the visual support to "tell me what you did today". It changed how I took pictures, and now I am in the habit of doing it.

I can't even fathom being upset at a family member for taking photos of my kids. I just can't. They are family. And it wouldn't even occur to me to ask "permission" to take photos of my own grandkids. That just seems over the top to me.

I'm the poster that was upset at family members over taking too many photos. No, I don't think that you are rude for taking tons of photos--my issue with my family members was not that they were taking photos (I said in my first post that I love photos--we take a lot ourselves, and I do want my family members to have those memories in photos, too), it was that they disrespected my feelings on the matter when they became overbearing with the picture-taking. I do feel that photos are personal, but that's just my opinion. I don't mean at all to offend anyone who feels otherwise--just expressing why I had a hard time with the paparazzi-ish actions of my family. So please don't think that I am trying to say that is rude or not right to take lots of photos--that's not what I am getting at all.


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## Ceili (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverWillow* 
no, not coming from that angle at all-- quite the opposite. I don't give a fig about whether she's appropriately groomed or a superstar.







It's an *ethical* issue. Let's say some anti- (insert political issue dear to your heart here) group used your kid's image to promote their agenda and solicit donations. It's not that far from what happened in my case, but just in theory. I didn't mind photos being taken for stuff that stays in school and is just for class parents. But this bothered me. The center didn't turn out to be a good pace. They should have asked so I could ask DD; it's about respecting her privacy and safety as well. I definitely would have wanted her to have a say in the mass publication of her image and personal info.

Well in your example this would be illegal because it was being used for advertising purposes, but different laws apply to newspapers. If you were walking through a demonstration for some anti-political whatever, then your image could be used in an article or with a caption about that event. Yes the photo and the caption are advertising for the center, but because they are published by the paper as news they legally fall under the journalism domain and don't require a release. The center doesn't have any control over which photos get used in the paper, the photographer may not even have any control over which photos get used in the paper, it's frequently an editor's decision.


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## poppan (Mar 8, 2008)

From a legal standpoint I believe it's OK to take pictures without asking permission, but if they wanted to publish them (i.e. use it in a brochure/website for marketing purposes) then they would need to ask your written permission.

They could just be using it for a classroom project in which case I don't think permission is required.


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## Cascadian (Jan 28, 2009)

Eh, doesn't bother me at all. Standard procedure to take pix of the kids to do a year end scrapbook and put their pix on the walls.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ceili* 
Well in your example this would be illegal because it was being used for advertising purposes, but different laws apply to newspapers. If you were walking through a demonstration for some anti-political whatever, then your image could be used in an article or with a caption about that event. Yes the photo and the caption are advertising for the center, but because they are published by the paper as news they legally fall under the journalism domain and don't require a release. The center doesn't have any control over which photos get used in the paper, the photographer may not even have any control over which photos get used in the paper, it's frequently an editor's decision.

except the workshop wasn't in a public place, it was inside a privately-owned, for-profit center used for daycare and educational workshops, which I paid to send DD to. The center asked the paper to come take pictures to spread the word about their workshops. The center is private property, and they certainly do have control over who comes in taking pictures! It wasn't like an egg hunt at a public park.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

fork said:


> Except this is flat out wrong. In a public place, or a private place with owners permission, you can take a picture of who or whatever you want (with very few exceptions), including children. You can check out your rights as a photographer here: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm
> 
> Permission is only needed to sell/use for advertising pictures of people or children and sometimes property.
> 
> ...


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## poppan (Mar 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverWillow* 
The laws are really not all that clear and some parts of the law vary from state to state. the point is that, regardless of what's LEGAL, as a parent I should have a say about what goes on in a day care or class I send my kid to. It's perfectly legal for them to stick her in the corner facing the wall, for example, as punishment, but I wouldn;'t allow that either. It's about what's acceptable. We make plenty of choices for our kids regardless of what's legal! I mean, it's legal for the principals of schools in many states to paddle children without asking a parent. so what? I'd file a lawsuit anyway if it happened to my kid. that's how laws change. legality is irrelevant, IMO.

IMHO it would have been very appropriate, though not legally required, for the center to notify parents that they have invited a newspaper to come document the day's activities on X date and to let them know if you do not wish to participate. Again IMHO, your center did wrong by the parents. And I'm sure you let them know, so hopefully they will do differently next time.


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## fork (Feb 7, 2007)

I hope you don't misunderstand. I wasn't making a moral judgement either way. You have every right to be as protective as you want to be with your kids, I was just letting you know that you really have no legal ground.

I end up with some pictures of kids, and 99% of the time when I take a picture of someone (kid or adult) I go up and talk to them about it, give them my card, etc. Only once did someone have a problem with it and they politely asked me to delete any pictures with their kid in them. I had no problem respecting their wishes, but if I had wanted to keep the picture for some reason there was nothing they could do about it.

I try to be polite and respectful of people. If one knew what to search for they could find a VERY unflattering picture of me on the Detroit News website from an event that I was at. So I fully understand people wanting to control their image.

ETA: If you are concerned about your child's picture being taken while at school/daycare/summer camp I would talk to the people in charge before you even enroll and let them know your concern. They might have an opt out form for you, or they might tell you that it's too much work for them to check every picture for your kid. This way you know what to expect, and if they don't want to fallow your wishes you could take your child else ware. Treat it the way you would treat anything else regarding the care of your child, such as food, discipline, etc. You could even let them know that you want your child removed from the area if the press shows up. You can't control what the press does, but the school can remove your child from the area so that they don't end up in any pictures. School's aren't mind readers and most parents are okay with pictures being taken, just like most parents are okay with candy being handed out, or time outs being used. It's up to you to let them know what you want, and make the decision to remove your child from the program if the program chooses not to follow your wishes.


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## savvybabygrace (Feb 15, 2007)

I know that when I taught, we *always* sent home a separate, specific paper for parent's consent for taking photos/video of the dc. I would just talk with the teacher about it.


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## summermay (Apr 11, 2008)

Thank you so much for your suppport and information regarding the laws. We are actually home schooling but now I am better prepared when it comes to enrol for some enrichment courses.

There was no photo waiver on the enrollment form and they made the photos for their new website and facebook/youtube promotion (a little film clip).
The teacher was apologetic and said no names would/are being be used.

Current enrollment forms seem to have a photo waiver, but not when we enrolled last year. For the day summercamps we just paid the fee and that was it (no extra paperwork).

DC loves the arts school, the teachers and the other kids are great.
Frankly, what bothers me most is the timing of the photos. Normally me or other mums are somehow present, or just having a longer chat in the hallways.. and when no one of us is present, then snap...... pictures takes. That's probably just a coincidence.


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

Is she taking her picture off. I think that taking pictures for your own use, or the class's use (e.g. so you can remember how you did an activity, as part of professional portfolio you show potential employers, documentation panels, to make a class book) is entirely different from taking pictures and posting them. I would definitely ask

I didn't sign photo releases for my child for a long time when he was little he attended a program for medically fragile kids that did a lot of photo ops for fundraising. He'd come home with little stickers that said "Please don't take my picture", but that didn't stop them from taking his picture to stick in a frame and send home with him for the holidays -- nor would I want it to.

At his current school I used to not sign the release and we'd get newsletters home with pictures of the whole class and a blurry blob where my child had been. It actually took me a while to figure out why there were blurry blobs and finally I got it. They left him out of the newletter because it went to donors, but he still had his picture on the birthday wall and things like that.


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## rockycrop (Jul 31, 2007)

When I worked at a preschool over one summer in college, I took pictures of my group of kids on my last day of work. And, yes, I took them home. It was a way for me to remember my time with them, they really meant a lot to me.

Your kids will have relationships with other people that have nothing to do with you (especially if you put them in school/clubs/activities). Of course we want to protect our kids, but at them same time we have to let other people enjoy them for the wonderful people they are.

I can understand being upset about your kid's picture and name being printed in the paper without your consent. But for teachers taking pictures for the classroom or for memories? I don't get why that would be a problem. I don't think my daughter belongs to me (in a possessive way), and I don't think her image belongs to me either.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *summermay* 
Thank you so much for your suppport and information regarding the laws. We are actually home schooling but now I am better prepared when it comes to enrol for some enrichment courses.

There was no photo waiver on the enrollment form and they made the photos for their new website and facebook/youtube promotion (a little film clip).
The teacher was apologetic and said no names would/are being be used.

Current enrollment forms seem to have a photo waiver, but not when we enrolled last year. For the day summercamps we just paid the fee and that was it (no extra paperwork).

DC loves the arts school, the teachers and the other kids are great.
Frankly, what bothers me most is the timing of the photos. Normally me or other mums are somehow present, or just having a longer chat in the hallways.. and when no one of us is present, then snap...... pictures takes. That's probably just a coincidence.

Good that they have the waiver now. I would be upset, not furious, but definitely affected and I don't think you're overreacting. Some of us just don't like photos public, name or not. Now, when people ask my permission, that's different.


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## purplemoon (Sep 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rockycrop* 
When I worked at a preschool over one summer in college, I took pictures of my group of kids on my last day of work. And, yes, I took them home. It was a way for me to remember my time with them, they really meant a lot to me.

Your kids will have relationships with other people that have nothing to do with you (especially if you put them in school/clubs/activities). Of course we want to protect our kids, but at them same time we have to let other people enjoy them for the wonderful people they are.

I can understand being upset about your kid's picture and name being printed in the paper without your consent. But for teachers taking pictures for the classroom or for memories? I don't get why that would be a problem. I don't think my daughter belongs to me (in a possessive way), and I don't think her image belongs to me either.

I still look fondly back on the pictures I took of the kids my last day as their pre-school teacher (a looooonnngg time ago!). I cared about each and every one of them and didn't want to forget them.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rockycrop* 
When I worked at a preschool over one summer in college, I took pictures of my group of kids on my last day of work. And, yes, I took them home. It was a way for me to remember my time with them, they really meant a lot to me.

Your kids will have relationships with other people that have nothing to do with you (especially if you put them in school/clubs/activities). Of course we want to protect our kids, but at them same time we have to let other people enjoy them for the wonderful people they are.

I can understand being upset about your kid's picture and name being printed in the paper without your consent. But for teachers taking pictures for the classroom or for memories? I don't get why that would be a problem. I don't think my daughter belongs to me (in a possessive way), and I don't think her image belongs to me either.

In my previous post I explained that I respect my daughter as her own entity; I would never claim to possess her or her image. I think her image belongs to her, and that she should have a say in its purposeful publication.

I don't "have to" let anyone do anything with her, actually. I help her choose her activities and educational environment based on my judgment as her parent, because these things are good for her, but I do quietly keep an eye on the relationships she develops with the adults in her life. You know those parents who are so helpful, who volunteer their time, make copies for you, clean up after the holiday parties? We're watching you.









I've asked permission before to keep a special photo of a student and myself that was taken organically, as part of a special event or activity. But it creeps me out a bit, the idea of taking a picture for oneself that the parent never is intended to see and will never know about. I wouldn't feel it was my right. How about male teachers? My preteen daughter comes home and tells me Mr. Smith took a special picture of her "to remember her by" and I shouldn't raise an eyebrow because I have to let other people enjoy her? I don't think the standards should be any different for women working with younger children. It's wonderful for teachers, nannies, etc. to be kind to children, to guide them, to develop affection even for certain kids, that's inevitable. But hands off - they aren't yours. Yeah, they're not their parents' in terms of "ownership" either -- ultimately they are their own. But I never kid myself when working with children. They're not mine, and I would rather err on the side of respect for the children than get possessive myself. It doesn't keep me from being great with kids.


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## Z1Z2 (Jul 12, 2009)

I sis not read all the responses, so my apologies if I am repeating what someone else already said. In our experience, the teacher and daycare have taken pics of our kids. The pictures were used in arts/crafts projects like ornaments or saved for later scrapbooks that were given to us parents at the end of the semester.

Paula


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverWillow* 
In my previous post I explained that I respect my daughter as her own entity; I would never claim to possess her or her image. I think her image belongs to her, and that she should have a say in its purposeful publication.

I don't "have to" let anyone do anything with her, actually. I help her choose her activities and educational environment based on my judgment as her parent, because these things are good for her, but I do quietly keep an eye on the relationships she develops with the adults in her life. You know those parents who are so helpful, who volunteer their time, make copies for you, clean up after the holiday parties? We're watching you.









I've asked permission before to keep a special photo of a student and myself that was taken organically, as part of a special event or activity. But it creeps me out a bit, the idea of taking a picture for oneself that the parent never is intended to see and will never know about. I wouldn't feel it was my right. How about male teachers? My preteen daughter comes home and tells me Mr. Smith took a special picture of her "to remember her by" and I shouldn't raise an eyebrow because I have to let other people enjoy her? I don't think the standards should be any different for women working with younger children. It's wonderful for teachers, nannies, etc. to be kind to children, to guide them, to develop affection even for certain kids, that's inevitable. But hands off - they aren't yours. Yeah, they're not their parents' in terms of "ownership" either -- ultimately they are their own. But I never kid myself when working with children. They're not mine, and I would rather err on the side of respect for the children than get possessive myself. It doesn't keep me from being great with kids.









I think your perspective is a bit off. A teacher taking a photo of a child isn't akin to someone taking some kind of child porn photo, which seems to be what you're equating it to. And you putting "to remember it by" in quotation marks as if that's code language for something wrong is off too. No one thinks someone else's child is theirs, but that doesn't mean they don't also have a relationship with your child, and it's reasonable for teachers to want a way to remember the kids who have been in their class. It has nothing to do with possessiveness and there are not nefarious intentions when a teacher takes photos of his/her class.


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## Ceili (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverWillow* 
except the workshop wasn't in a public place, it was inside a privately-owned, for-profit center used for daycare and educational workshops, which I paid to send DD to. The center asked the paper to come take pictures to spread the word about their workshops. The center is private property, and they certainly do have control over who comes in taking pictures! It wasn't like an egg hunt at a public park.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *SilverWillow* 
The laws are really not all that clear and some parts of the law vary from state to state. the point is that, regardless of what's LEGAL, as a parent I should have a say about what goes on in a day care or class I send my kid to. It's perfectly legal for them to stick her in the corner facing the wall, for example, as punishment, but I wouldn;'t allow that either. It's about what's acceptable. We make plenty of choices for our kids regardless of what's legal! I mean, it's legal for the principals of schools in many states to paddle children without asking a parent. so what? I'd file a lawsuit anyway if it happened to my kid. that's how laws change. legality is irrelevant, IMO.

It's still a "public place" as in a place that the public is allowed, not in the sense of a publicly owned place. After the center invites the paper to come photograph they lose control over what pictures make it into the paper. Should they have notified you before hand, yes, but legally speaking they did not need to. If this is an issue for you then this is something you need to ask about up front. For example I always ask about how discipline issues are handled because that is something that I am concerned about and I recognize that I deal with things differently than what is considered mainstream. I always ask about snacks/food because again my views don't always coincide with mainstream america and I think it's better to be proactive about things than to be upset later.

Yes it would have been nice if they had told you they had invited a newspaper photographer to the center on that day, but legally they weren't required to and most people don't have an issue with their kid's picture being taken so it probably didn't occur to anyone. It's a pretty normal occurrence. At my kid's t-ball games I think every parent at the place had a camera and no one asked me for a photo release.


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## SilverWillow (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I think your perspective is a bit off. A teacher taking a photo of a child isn't akin to someone taking some kind of child porn photo, which seems to be what you're equating it to. And you putting "to remember it by" in quotation marks as if that's code language for something wrong is off too. No one thinks someone else's child is theirs, but that doesn't mean they don't also have a relationship with your child, and it's reasonable for teachers to want a way to remember the kids who have been in their class. It has nothing to do with possessiveness and there are not nefarious intentions when a teacher takes photos of his/her class.

Well, then, it's a real shame they fired the teacher at our local high school after they found his treasured memories in his cell phone. Let's just say it wasn't the kids' faces he wanted to remember them by.









I wasn't talking about child porn, FTR. That's a world of ick away from what I was talking about. I already said I've requested parental permission to keep photos now and then, just think it's better to keep regular group-type pics rather than have them pose especially for me. I don't think avoiding the appearance of impropriety is "off" when some parents just don't like their kids being photographed. That's my opinion.


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

I guess I still don't even see the "safety" issue of it. I see pictures of hundreds (or thousands) of kids every day, in magazines, on websites, in newspapaers, everywhere - I wonder why they're not _safe_ now? Hm. Maybe this is along the lines of people being afraid to put a birth announcement in the paper three days after baby is born? Because they think someone is reading those, ready to steal babies (instead of waiting outside maternity wards or driving randomly in millions of neighborhoods looking for storks and balloons?). What a fear to have to live with on a daily basis! Wowza!

I guess I'm _way_ laid back. I'd be flattered if my kids' images were to show up in Russia in a restaurant's advertisements! LOL!


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
I guess I still don't even see the "safety" issue of it. I see pictures of hundreds (or thousands) of kids every day, in magazines, on websites, in newspapaers, everywhere - I wonder why they're not _safe_ now?

There is a remote possibility that a child might be abducted due to a photograph, though you really do have to have more than just a random image. When I worked at a newspaper, the rule was you never put an image, a name, and a regular location (somewhere you could predict the child you be again) together. The thought was IF someone were after a child, giving those 3 piece of info would allow a stranger to walk up to the targeted child in that place and say "Hi John. Your mom/teacher/Sunday School teacher sent me to get you" and a child would be more likely to follow instructions.

Of course, those women and children who have fled abusive husbands, smugglers, controlling families or such have another entirely valid layer of concern. And it is those people that the rules about asking permission before using a photo is intended to protect. If your abusive ex saw a photo of your child in an ad for ABC Preschool, he would know exactly where to stock you.


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

So do people with children never leave their homes? Never go to the grocery store, or the park, or the mall, or visit relatives? What about pediatrician's offices - there are dozens of people there, easy to follow a mom home, right?

I would think (if I lived that way) that chances (which are virtually nil) of child abduction are much greater in public places where children hang out. I just can't see a man perusing papers and magazines at home looking for information, when he can drive 1/2 mile down the street to a park with swings and find dozens of kids to stalk.

I dunno. I'm just laid back. It's just such a safe world - strangers aren't the fear, it's people they already know - statistically speaking. I guess I'm glad we're safe in today's world, zall.

JMO, of course. Just rambling.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
So do people with children never leave their homes? Never go to the grocery store, or the park, or the mall, or visit relatives? What about pediatrician's offices - there are dozens of people there, easy to follow a mom home, right?

I would think (if I lived that way) that chances (which are virtually nil) of child abduction are much greater in public places where children hang out. I just can't see a man perusing papers and magazines at home looking for information, when he can drive 1/2 mile down the street to a park with swings and find dozens of kids to stalk.

I dunno. I'm just laid back. It's just such a safe world - strangers aren't the fear, it's people they already know - statistically speaking. I guess I'm glad we're safe in today's world, zall.

JMO, of course. Just rambling.

We leave the house every day. You might be interested to know that I'm not concerned about pedophiles with the photo thing. I just think it's personal- like staring, kind of- and inappropriate and rude to take photos of someone without asking.

For me, it's not a safety issue, per se, it's a personal boundaries issue. A photo is a personal thing. That's all. It doesn't have to be justified with a "safety" clause.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Actually, most children are abducted by specific people looking for that specific child. For people who are in nasty custody battles and such, the risk is when the parents aren't with their children, so things like schools, camps and such are, yes, risky places because its hard to watch 10 kids going in different directions at pick up time from camp, or a counselor may not know that even though child says "Daddy", child isn't allowed to leave with daddy. So if daddy learns that little Johny is at ABC summer camp, the risk does get much higher that he will have access to the child. In the park, mom is likely to be watching little Johny (especially if she knows there is a risk) and would see trouble coming. And for schools where children may be allowed to leave unaccompanied, all he needs to do is wait for the right moment. Its a scary world if you are stuck in this sort of situation. And if you have moved away to get away from someone and your ex suddenly sees your kid pop up in a photo from another city, your safety just plummeted.


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## SandraS (Jan 18, 2007)

Evan&Anna's Mom, I agree about the whole witness protection/hiding the child thing... that's gotta be a _very_ rare instance, though.

I wasn't aiming my musings at anyone in particular on this thread, to EdnaMarie. I've read it before though - not wanting your child's picture taken for "safety". I just don't get it. Unless her social security number, address, and garage door code is on her t-shirt and readable, I just can't understand why it's a safety thing. That's all. No biggie. I don't worry about it, and I just was curious. That's all. Everyone has their reasons, I just can't see harm, zall.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SandraS* 
Evan&Anna's Mom, I agree about the whole witness protection/hiding the child thing... that's gotta be a _very_ rare instance, though.

I wasn't aiming my musings at anyone in particular on this thread, to EdnaMarie. I've read it before though - not wanting your child's picture taken for "safety". I just don't get it. Unless her social security number, address, and garage door code is on her t-shirt and readable, I just can't understand why it's a safety thing. That's all. No biggie. I don't worry about it, and I just was curious. That's all. Everyone has their reasons, I just can't see harm, zall.

I know you don't see the harm, and I certainly didn't feel you were aiming your comments at me. I was aiming my comments at you, though.







There ARE people on here who see it as a safety issue, and there is a bit of safety involved, but I do think there's some harm in it.

I guess it reminds me of the topic we had in the Multicultural Families forum in which it was asked whether one would let foreign tourists take their families' or children's picture. Obviously in that case the purpose is just the tourists' enjoyment- they might see what they view as a "typical specimen"







or a particularly cute child- and want to take that home. Who hasn't people-watched on vacation?

But I think it was generally agreed that one always ASKS. There's nothing wrong with taking pictures of the natives on vacation, be they natives of Africa, Asia, or America. But there is something wrong, somehow, with taking their picture without asking, whether or not they are aware.

Same with kids.

It's personal.


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## lyno (Sep 22, 2008)

why do you feel so uncomfortable about it? they were just innocent pictures weren't they? (not naked obviously etc.)


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

My preteen daughter comes home and tells me Mr. Smith took a special picture of her "to remember her by" and I shouldn't raise an eyebrow because I have to let other people enjoy her?
Assuming your daughter will be attending school, Mr. Smith could look her up in the yearbook if he's got a thing for her. Her friends will surely take a ton of pictures of her as she becomes a teen, too. Are you going to confiscate them or forbid this?

Quote:

But there is something wrong, somehow, with taking their picture without asking, whether or not they are aware.
I really don't get it. When you guys go to Disney or the state fair or a birthday party or fireworks or the beach, do you worry that other people are taking pictures? Do you forbid wedding photographers from taking cute shots of your kids at family weddings? Do you never take pictures in these situations yourself? I mean, should we make taking photos of other people illegal? Good grief.

Life involves a lot of pictures, taken by a lot of people. It just....does.


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## mommy2maya (Jun 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
Actually, most children are abducted by specific people looking for that specific child. For people who are in nasty custody battles and such, the risk is when the parents aren't with their children, so things like schools, camps and such are, yes, risky places because its hard to watch 10 kids going in different directions at pick up time from camp, or a counselor may not know that even though child says "Daddy", child isn't allowed to leave with daddy. So if daddy learns that little Johny is at ABC summer camp, the risk does get much higher that he will have access to the child. In the park, mom is likely to be watching little Johny (especially if she knows there is a risk) and would see trouble coming. And for schools where children may be allowed to leave unaccompanied, all he needs to do is wait for the right moment. Its a scary world if you are stuck in this sort of situation. And if you have moved away to get away from someone and your ex suddenly sees your kid pop up in a photo from another city, your safety just plummeted.

There are always forms of who the child can be released to, and if it is the case that daddy is NOT allowed to get the child, I am sure mommy let the camp and counselor know, explicitly, that daddy is NOT to pick up.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

I guess I'm not that worried about it because we are under such constant surveillance (which I am worried about!). Traffic lights have cameras, street lights have cameras, atm's have cameras, every store you go into have camera, people have camera's in their phones, in their sunglasses (for real). So i'm kinda desensitized to picture taking. with telephoto lenses you can take amazing pictures from so far away the people would have NO WAY to know they were being photographed.

I totally respect people's feelings/ beliefs if they do not wish to be photographed, or opt out of photo releases at schools and such, but I guess I feel like, for me and my family, we are being watched all the time anyway. And frankly I would rather my kid's teacher have a photo of them than the "government"


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tbone_kneegrabber* 
I guess I'm not that worried about it because we are under such constant surveillance (which I am worried about!). Traffic lights have cameras, street lights have cameras, atm's have cameras, every store you go into have camera, people have camera's in their phones, in their sunglasses (for real). So i'm kinda desensitized to picture taking. with telephoto lenses you can take amazing pictures from so far away the people would have NO WAY to know they were being photographed.

I totally respect people's feelings/ beliefs if they do not wish to be photographed, or opt out of photo releases at schools and such, but I guess I feel like, for me and my family, we are being watched all the time anyway. And frankly I would rather my kid's teacher have a photo of them than the "government"

Funny- I'm the opposite. I don't mind pictures for professional / societal use, most of which are in storage, I guess because it's for a greater good. Whereas the pics the OP described are for the good of an individual other than the photographee.


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