# daughter moved out, now feels rejected



## ciarra (May 5, 2006)

18 year old moved out, and now feels rejected. We asked her before she left to please take down the filthy posters and vulgar words off her walls, pack up her un- needed clothes and stuff and pack it in the basement. She did not. So saturday we got boxes, cleaned the room, vacumned, packed her stuff and labeled the boxes carefully, and painted the room a bright sunny color.

now she feels rejected because her brother told her all we did. and she feels we are glad to see her gone, don't care about her and now have the office / guest room we wanted. simply not true.

this is still her home, her room (just does not look as depressing), open for dinner, laundry available, we wold be delighted to spend time with her. she just seemed to want to get as far away as possible and be left alone. so we have called and she has been nasty or seemed annoyed.

how can we improve this situation? we tried to be as supportive as possible, and we still ended up hurting her.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Well unless you needed the room for something else (in which case it is no longer "her" room) why the drastic changes? Clearly the filthy posters and vulgar words meant something to her.
Seems pretty disrespectful to me.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

How long has it been since she moved out?

You may have entered her space too quickly. Most 18 year olds that I know of that moved out - moved back in within a year (and usually within a couple of months). She may have only been testing the waters of independence but needing to know that she had a home base.

Since you fully erased her room, she feels she no longer has a home base.

If she's been gone quite some time, then what you did was quite reasonable. But if she'd only been gone a month or so, I can definitely see why she feels the way she does.

To improve this situation, I think you might want to apologize and explain that you didn't mean to hurt her, and offer to help her set up her room again the way she likes it - and come to an agreement about how to handle her vacated room (such as "We won't touch it again for 10 months - and if you haven't moved back in by then, we'll give you one-week heads-up before we close it up.").


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

Ciarra, I saw this post and just had to reply. My dd is 18 and we've been going through this issue of getting her room ready for her to move out. I think it is very difficult for everyone, making this transition. Interestingly, my daughter also had words, song lyrics, posters, and other paraphanalia all over her walls. It was like graffiti central in her room. We are considering getting another house and putting this one on the market, and that is why I am insisting that she paint over all the graffiti and take her posters down, etc. My dd is reacting fairly well to this - she painted her room herself (did a somewhat shabby job and we gently offered to paint the final coat as a means of minimizing the poor quality coverage), and has packed up most of her stuff. The posters came down but after only a week she has slowly started putting them back up again and I have to keep reminding her that we need to keep the room pristine in case we decide to sell.

It is only 3 months until she moves into a dorm and she is really excited about it. I don't understand why it seems so difficult for her to wait 3 months before putting posters up in her dorm room. I understand her need for her own individual space, but the home is our investment and I need to ensure that it is in the very best possible condition for possible sale.

Anyway, just wanted to say I can relate to your post. My daughter seems a bit put out that I am wanting her room to remain plain and free of her personal touches. I don't know if she is feeling rejected, yet, but I can imagine she will later this summer and especially next fall after she moves out.


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## Ellie'sMom (Aug 10, 2002)

ok, I am not a mom of a teen, so take this however you want, but I totally understand why she feels this way. Even when I went to college my room at home was my room, and I would have felt pretty rejected and sad if my mom had packed up my stuff and changed it without asking. You might not have liked how she chose to decorate, but it was _her_ room. Vacuuming and cleaning are one thing, but packing stuff up and redecorating sends the message that her departure is permanent.

I say all this not know the circumstances behind her moving out, but I think she is owed an apology.


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## hotmom (Jul 23, 2005)

Quote:

why the drastic changes? Clearly the filthy posters and vulgar words meant something to her.
Seems pretty disrespectful to me
It is disrepsctful of the child to deface the parents home in the first place.
I am sure the child knows that whether it was spoken loudly or not.
you did the right thing. I would not allow my kids to graffiti My house or hang vulgar posters in the first place, to do so against your wishes is a act of defiance and should not be respected. My goodness. lol You pay the rent!
she is young and immature and this is all normal. Stay loving and stay firm and she will come around. It's all a growing phase. Her brain and her emotional stability are all still changing, she is till growing. Don't worry mom.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

She's being a normal 18 year old, eager for independence but feeling ambivalent. You're being spiteful. I'd be wounded in her shoes too. No, it's not HER room anymore. You took away all the things that made it hers, with a wrinkled nose and disaproving sneer on your face ("filthy" and "vulgar" *snort*). I don't blame her for being upset at all.


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## lilsishomemade (Feb 12, 2005)

I think both sides could take some stepping back and trying to see the other's view. Yes, she's moved out. But, it's hard and a bit scary the first time you move out on your own, and she probably wanted to feel that she still had a safe space. I think going off to live in a dorm is different from completely moving out. Dorms usually aren't open over the summer months, so the kid usually comes home. I can see that you probably felt the room wasn't being used anymore, and you could use that space since she no longer needed it. I would have taken it a bit slower, but my parents did the same to me. When I moved out, they totally packed everything up the next weekend. My mom made my room into the nursery (my little brother was born a month and a half after I turned 18). It was a little wierd. I did feel I no longer had a space anywhere anymore. I did get over it, but I've always been a bit more mature and independent than others my own age.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

I just wanted to add a little tid bit from a younger person's prespective. I moved out of my house when I was 17. I'm 24 now. I was pregnant at the time, but it was probably good for me to move out anyway.

First off, good for you for letting your daughter express her individuality. My parents also did this with me. It's important that older teens are allowed to be who they are. You can't expect a 18 year old to suddenly be able to be who she is if she wasn't allowed to do so at three or four years earlier.

When I moved out, I was still underage, so I still really felt tied to my room. However, my parents got rid of my bed, painted it, and turned it into a "sit down" room. I felt so violated! But you know what? I got over it. It is a very normal reaction. First off, it's hard to accept the fact that you are an adult and now it's time to move on and be responsible for yourself. Secondly, it is very very hard to say good-bye to the room you grew up in! You spend so much time in your room, make it yours, cry, laugh, and grow up all in the same room. It is an emotional attachment. It's like a part of you, part of your mark that you made. Part of your childhood, something warm and comforting. To see all that erased is really a hard blow, it's forcing you to let go of your childhood, to close that chapter of your life. Believe me, it's sad, and it's very hard, and it's easy to lay blame on your parents for "taking it away" when in actuality it's your daughter who removed herself from there.

You daughter is probably experiencing a who myriad of emotions right now. Closing the book on your childhood is scary, sad and exciting. Part of you wants to run back to your mother's arms, and the other part wants to run out and experience the world. But when you go back to your parent's house, and see your room, but it's not your room anymore, you know that the chapter of your life that you lived here is closed. You daughter probably left everything up because it's hard to let go. But when you went in and did it forward, it's like everything closes in on her. She realizes, I just can't go back and have everything the same. I'm an adult now! Be patient. She will get over it. It took me awhile, even moving back in and then out again, to realize that things had changed, and they weren't going back. Growing up is hard to do, and even when you are grown, there's still so much more growing to do.







I'm sure we all know that. Good luck and I hope everything works out.


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## papayapetunia (Feb 6, 2006)

I understand how she might feel, but I don't think you owe her an "apology," just an "explanation." You let her keep her room that way while it was hers (







); she moved out; now you can do what you want with the room.

I think the room change sort of makes it seem so final, and that's scary. You should just let her know that she's welcome home whenever she wants to come home. Maybe tell her that you painted the room because you have so much faith in her success.

My mom turned my room into an art studio. Then she kept giving me boxes of my stuff every time I came over. I was irritated. I knew I wouldn't be staying in the place I was at forever. I thought my stuff would be safe at my parents' house.

Well, good luck.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Now that she is no longer in residence, I feel its perfectly appropriate to reclaim that space for the whole family. And vulgar words? I wouldn't have allowed them on the wall to begin with. You are way tolerant in my book.


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## PugMom4Now (May 3, 2004)

To me it sounds like she's going through an emotional time with entering adulthood. I think that the fact that she moved out of YOUR house completely gives you the right to do what you want with the room. If there were things up that you didn't like seeing, why would you leave it as is? I agree with the pp who said that maybe an explanation to your daughter to try and patch things up would be good, but I'm sure she'll come around.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Ah, yes...wants to be grown up...but...still wants the old stuff too.

I would say "I understand how you feel but everyone has to go through this rite of passage when they move out of their parents home eventually and it's hard to let go of your kid stuff"

She's 18, she is an adult. What I would have done was carefully packed her things and taken them to her new place except for some very special ones you know would be safer at your home.

The main thing is to keep communicating..tell her this is what happens when kids move out from home and that it's normal to not want it to happen but it does.

She will get over it but be gentle and understanding..it's hard to grow up


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## soygurl (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ciarra*
18 year old moved out, and now feels rejected. We asked her before she left to please take down the filthy posters and vulgar words off her walls, pack up her un- needed clothes and stuff and pack it in the basement. She did not. So saturday we got boxes, cleaned the room, vacumned, packed her stuff and labeled the boxes carefully, and painted the room a bright sunny color.

now she feels rejected because her brother told her all we did. and she feels we are glad to see her gone, don't care about her and now have the office / guest room we wanted. simply not true.

this is still her home, her room (just does not look as depressing), open for dinner, laundry available, we wold be delighted to spend time with her. she just seemed to want to get as far away as possible and be left alone. so we have called and she has been nasty or seemed annoyed.

how can we improve this situation? we tried to be as supportive as possible, and we still ended up hurting her.

"Supportive" to you is probably nothing like "supportive" to her. I think what you did was very insensitive and I can't blame her for feeling rejected. I think you owe her an appology, and a careful explination. I'm not saying this to make you feel bad or anything, but to help you understand her point of view.

Several PPs have said that you had the right to do anything to the room because it isn't her's anymore, but you claim that it IS still her room.... it just doesn't look like it is anymore. You feel like you make the room "less depressing" but I'm willing to bet that all the things about her room that you considered "depressing," "trashy" and "vulgar" are the things that she consedered "homey," "comforting" and simpy "her" and by removing these things she probably felt errased. I know I would have felt that way. When I moved out (at 17) I specificly made a deal with my mom that she was not to do ANYTHING to my room (becides general cleaning, vacuming, etc.) for 1 year. I was scared about leaving home and needed to know that I still had a place to come back if I wanted/needed to. Even if it seems like all your DD wants is to get away, I guarentee that isn't the only thing she wants... even if she isn't capable of even understanding what she wants.

Let me clarify, I'm 20, and have recently gotten to the point where I can look back at myself between the ages of about 14-18 and clearly see just how crazy I acted. But I can also clearly remember how I felt at the time, and why I thought my actions were reasonable (even though I know now how very far from reasonable they were!). And I clearly remember being mean and nasy to my poor parents because I felt that they didn't care enough about me. I know how irrational that sounds, and I even knew at the time how irrational it was, but that's how I felt. I read so much into the littlest things that they did, and would get into screaming fights with them over how they weren't supportive enough. Now I can look back and see that they were supportive in their minds, but it didn't translate at all to my idea of supportive. I hope some of this makes sense.

I really hope you can understand how your DD might have felt when you (in her mind) errased her presence in the place she called (and might still call) home. It wasn't until at least a year after I moved out that my parent's house wasn't "home" anymore, at least in my mind.

I hope you and your family the best. The teen years are really tough for everyone, but I promise it will get better eventually. Hugs!























~Kelsie


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## Mama Dragon (Dec 5, 2005)

My DH's mom (he was 17 and still living at home when we got together) did this the day after he moved in with me. I think it might be a female thing? He was just like "whatever, I live elsewhere now, I know I'm still welcome at home"

Maybe just send a card/note and say simply that you love her and you want her to come home lots but just needed that room for other things.


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## PajamaMama (Dec 18, 2004)

Ciarra...

I don't feel that you owe your daughter an apology, though it might be a nice gesture to make anyway, one that would help smooth things over between you and your daughter. You don't have to OWE an apology to offer one.









::edited by me, for bitchiness towards unsupportive replies::

And back to the original post...if your daughter feels unwelcome, maybe you can think of a way to make her old room feel special to her too. Maybe the two of you can agree on some decorating touches that would be pleasing to you both.

I offer you







in this difficult time. I have a preteen daughter (and a preschool age daughter too) and I dread having to deal with these issues...no matter how ready you are, you can never really prepare with everything that comes with each new stage of development.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

I wanted to offer support to you. Wow. What a hard place to be in. I hope things work out. I don't feel you did the "wrong" thing.
I did have to comment on some of the PP... chill!

H


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## sevenkids (Dec 16, 2002)

My oldest 2 moved out, actually they moved into an apartment together, and they knew right away that their rooms would not be reserved for them indefinately, or would be reserved for them at all. As they were packing up to go, their brother and sister were moving in their things. They also knew that they could move back if they needed to, but the arrangement would be a little different, since they volantarily gave up their space in my house.
18 is an adult, and plenty old enough to experience the consequences of her actions. You move out, you give up your space. It will be the same for the rest of her life, anywhere she goes.
You don't owe her anything. She chose to move out, and now she must learn to accept the changes that come along with her decision. It's a lesson in being an adult.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I don't think that I'd apologize for changing the room, per se, but maybe address the dynamic that seems to be coming across more to her - with your references to filthy, vulgar, depressing - that's the part that stands out to me.

Maybe try to connect with her and say that while she is still always welcome to come home and use that room, that because she IS living somewhere else now, you redecorated to soemthing that's more your taste, just like she's free to now decorate her current place in a way that's her taste. And you're sorry if the way it came across makes her feel unwelcome.

I don't see anything wrong with what you did in theory, it's probably just the delivery (especially if you were expressive about your displeasure in her taste while you were cleaning up, and your son relayed that to her) of the info to her wasn't done in the most sensitive way.

Good luck!


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

My parents left my room largely untouched for about a year after I went to college. My mom let me know before I came down for a visit between freshman and sophomore year (having gotten an apartment rather than come home) that she was going to do some packing up. After that, over a few months, they tore down the wallpaper, put the rest of my things in storage, and reclaimed the space. It was a gradual transition and I had time to disentangle my emotional attachment to the home I grew up in from my memories of childhood and make a new place for myself.

I guess they got complacent when my little sister went to college because she came home for a weekend visit a month into her first semester to find her room turned into a guest room. No warning. All her furniture was gone, belongings in storage, walls repainted. She was DEVASTATED. And it broke a lot of her trust in them. She felt unwelcome, insecure, and betrayed. It's been six years and while they get along fine, if you mention her childhood room, she still gets upset.

In terms of property laws, it is your house. But no matter how old they are, it will always be "home" to your children. Any steps away from home, like those first toddling steps away from mama, are a big transition. Communication and time make the difference between a rough one and a smooth one.


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## ciarra (May 5, 2006)

WOW, thanks everyone for both sides of dealing with this predicament.
Yes, i am ashamed to say, i think we moved too fast without her input. i talked to my huband, and he still is on the side of "you want to play house, you cannot expect your room to stay in limbo." but, i got him to agree that we should put some of her stuff back, not the stuff on the wall, but her basics. boy, i wished i had heard about the "one year, i won't touch your room", before this fiasco.that would have been easier than this heartbreaking upsetting episode we caused her. i have never wanted to make my kids feel unwelcome, and boy did we screw that one up. but we are going to try to make it right. Not make it like it was, but a little more more grown up with her stuff.

We painted over her red room with a sage green. I hung her black curtains back up, put her entertainment center back (moved to paint, but she thought it was gone), put her lights back. i washed her clothes that were in her drawers, hung up what i could in the closet, and will put back her undies and socks in a smaller dresser i am painting (hers was destroyed, broken drawers, painted with vulgarity,swastikas and racist remarks). i have three beautiful pictures she won awards for painting in like 9th grade, that i am going to buy black frames for hang on the wall. i put her shoes and 50 or so pairs of black dock marten boots back in her closet. and i put some of the pictures of her and her friends on the entertainment center, and put a rug down to cover the black hair dye, bleach, makeup, and oil paint that smeared her carpet.

thank you everyone. we are going to try to communicate with her again today, to get together and talk. she would not answer her phone yesterday, can't say i blame her. but i can today see we were premature with this whole thing.

to build back her trust,respect will be a difficult thing. but we will try.


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## nonnymoose (Mar 12, 2004)

Wow. I thought eighteen-year-olds were supposed to be adults, especially ones that move out of the house. Please don't let the people bashing you on this thread (donosmommy04 being a notable exception - what a marvelous way of stating a position that other posters are wielding like a weapon) make you lose sight of that fact.
The other posters that said that you can explain without apologizing have a point. It IS your house, and you have a right to keep it as you wish. Don't forget that this can be a learning experience for her as well.


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

i'm all for easy, gradual transitions and all that...

but i would not tolerate swastikas or other neo-nazi paraphanalia in my house. no way. the line is drawn where a person's "individuality" is expressed in racist remarks etc...

i think it sounds like what you did looks nice, still young, but nicer.


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## liawbh (Sep 29, 2004)

Interesting to see how many people seem to believe GD and AP turn off like a light switch at 18 or moving out. Wow. I had to double check my address bar.


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

Quote:

Interesting to see how many people seem to believe GD and AP turn off like a light switch at 18 or moving out. Wow. I had to double check my address bar.
That's harsh.







Perhaps you believe that AP and GD at 3 yo looks exactly the same as it does with an 18 yo. (It's kinda hard to fit that 5"8 teenager into a sling, though.







)


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liawbh*
Interesting to see how many people seem to believe GD and AP turn off like a light switch at 18 or moving out. Wow. I had to double check my address bar.









ITA where am I again?

Quote:

i talked to my huband, and he still is on the side of "you want to play house, you cannot expect your room to stay in limbo."
sounds like his motivation was to punish her for leaving, but I am glad that you are working on rebuilding trust with dd.


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## sevenkids (Dec 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liawbh*
Interesting to see how many people seem to believe GD and AP turn off like a light switch at 18 or moving out. Wow. I had to double check my address bar.

I thought the whole point was to raise healthy, independent, responsable adults......At some point, and an 18 year old that insists on moving out of the home is one of those points, you have to let them be adults and experience adult experiences. It's just the natural order of things.


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## liawbh (Sep 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sevenkids*
I thought the whole point was to raise healthy, independent, responsable adults......At some point, and an 18 year old that insists on moving out of the home is one of those points, you have to let them be adults and experience adult experiences. It's just the natural order of things.

How is getting all your stuff tossed, and your space violated an "adult experience" or the "natural order of things????" Even if you get evicted, you get notice.

Was there warning? Did she have the chance to get her own stuff? What if she decides to go to college, and wants to come home? What if it doesn't work out?
Sounds like you, and many here, are punishing her for moving out. Nice.

It isn't like years have gone by, and her stuff is collecting dust.

It seems a bit like the old "throw 'em in, they'll learn to swim."


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

SHE decided to move out, did she not? It was her choice, she had her own 'notice'. Very few people in this world have the luxury of having two home-bases, two places where their stuff is sacrosanct and untouchable. Wouldn't we ALL (no matter our age) _love_ to have spaces that other people pay for and that we are allowed to keep our things arranged _just so_ and be left untouched? I want to live in THAT world.









If she needs to come back, I imagine she would be welcome. Her room might look a little different, but really, how big a deal is that?

Edited to add: remember, the OP said:

Quote:

We asked her before she left to please take down the filthy posters and vulgar words off her walls, pack up her un- needed clothes and stuff and pack it in the basement. She did not.


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## liawbh (Sep 29, 2004)

LIke I said, interesting to see how GD this all is.


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## ciarra (May 5, 2006)

She has been a "free spirit" child since she was young. Always busy with friends, going places, not a home body. That taken into account, when she started talking about leaving ASAP (january, when her huge insurance settlement, talking 6 figures, came to her hands) (which i thought would be AFTER she graduates hs) we had discussed that she would take her stuff and her cat. she had no problem with that. She said even up to the week that she was moving out that she would pack her UNUSED clothes, and stuff she would not be taking with her.
We asked her to remove the swastika and racist stuff from her walls. Not my taste, personally, but her expression. it was her room. i never enforced what was in my kids rooms, because it is their space. but it was not to overflow our home. we explained (many times to her through tears), that if YOU CHOOSE to move out, you are taking the step of acting as an adult, thus taking the responsibilities of your stuff that is yours. both here and in you new place. We had spoken many times in between the original move out and the day we packed her stuff, and she is "too busy" to stop by (on her way home from high school which is down the street from our house), to pack up her unused stuff and act upon our request. so my husband felt that she needs to understand she made a deal and we warned her and that is why we would do it. not angry, not in spite. there are consequences to your actions. to premature, yes, but we talked to her about it repeatedly. we did not THROW it out. we packed it in boxes neatly, labels with detailed labels. and placed it in the basement.

we did what we said we would do. is that so bad?


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

I don't think you didn't anything wrong at all. It was her choice to leave the nest, not yours. When I moved out at 18, I could've cared less what my mom did to my room. I was too excited to even look back! Of course, I knew if I ever needed to move back, I could (luckily, never did), but I would be moving back as an adult, not a child. Things change as we grow up, and it has nothing to do with GD.


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## sevenkids (Dec 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liawbh*
How is getting all your stuff tossed, and your space violated an "adult experience" or the "natural order of things????" Even if you get evicted, you get notice.

Was there warning? Did she have the chance to get her own stuff? What if she decides to go to college, and wants to come home? What if it doesn't work out?
Sounds like you, and many here, are punishing her for moving out. Nice.

It isn't like years have gone by, and her stuff is collecting dust.

It seems a bit like the old "throw 'em in, they'll learn to swim."

First, The racial slurs and swastikas would have been gone long before she moved out, in fact, she would have had to remove them herself and paint over the walls long before she even _thought_ about leaving. No way in hell would I have tolerated, er, _respected_







, that sort of "self-expression" in _my_ home.

Second, if you move out of an apartment, your former landlord is not going to hang on to your things or your apartment, just in case you change your mind. I gaurantee they will be gone in the next bulk trash pick-up, and as soon as the paint dries, someone else will be using that space. You are responsable for removing them yourself or making suitable arrangements for them, and if you don't, someone will do it for you. That is what is expected of responsable adults.

Third, it's not her space anymore. She gave it up of her own free will and handed it back to her parents. It is now their space to do with as they will.

If she wants to come back, the OP made it clear she was welcome. However, the dynamics have been changed. It has nothing to do with being punished and everything to do with moving on, growing up, and dealing with the consequences of her decisions. When my oldest 2 moved out, they understood that they were welcome back if necessary, but it wasn't going to be exactly the same as when they left. They knew that if and when they returned home, they would be coming back as adults with adult responsabilities.

The natural order of things is children grow up, make mistakes, learn the lessons life has to offer, and become strong and healthy adults. The natural order of things is parents raise them to be adults and let them _be_ adults.

She hasn't been thrown in, she jumped willingly. And her parents, instead of jumping in after her, are watching close by, ready to assist her if she sinks.


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## sevenkids (Dec 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liawbh*
LIke I said, interesting to see how GD this all is.

Why would an 18 year old adult even _need_ GD?


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

The OP didn't specify the nature of the "vulgar" stuff on the walls until page two. From the original vague wording I thought it was just like, a stupid Aerosmith poster or something. Now that I hear the details, it sounds like there is a much more serious problem going on with this young woman.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Ciarra, I think what you did was respectful, and not out of line at all. You obviously have talked to her for quite awhile about this. I don't see this as being "unap" at all. Of course ap changes over the years. It has to, as do our children. As they grow and mature, they have to be responsible for more and more each year. She made the choice to move. She didn't respect your wishes as to her part of the work involved in moving. You respectfully boxed and labeled her things. It is your house. She was just using that room til she moved out. My mother use to always say, "we raise our children to leave", meaning that we raise our children to be independent, responsible, effective human beings. Once they are gone, it is their life to run, but of course us moms will always be there for them when they need advice as they start spreading their adult wings. Sounds like you are doing a great job! I have talked to my teen (almost 18) about the fact that her room will not remain her own personal space once she's not living her the majority of the year. Even when she goes off to college, unless she goes to college nearby and lives here at night and on weekends. There are others living here and who will remain here for years to come who could use more space.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Sevenkids, ITA w/why would an 18 yo even need gd? By that age, and esp. if the said teen is not living at home anymore, they should have a good foundation for self-discipline already. If not, they will fall and learn to pick themselves back up again. That's part of learning to be an adult.


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## nolonger (Jan 18, 2006)

Ciarra, I just wanted to share a tale of two rooms with you.

My mother was a homeowner and I was very much a homebody. I had few friends and spent most of my money from my part time job on fixing up my room. I left home very young (fifteen) and never returned except for brief visits. I didn't take anything with me except the clothes on my back and a toothbrush. My mother always hoped I would come home to stay and kept the room exactly the way I'd left it. She said that cleaning it was heartbreaking for her; I had way too many houseplants that required too much care, and she says that there was one fern in particular that would fall in her face and remind her of my hair.

When I did come back to visit, the room felt "creepy" too me. During my last visit, I had a three year old daughter, a six month old infant, and a moribund marriage, but being thrust back into the room of my teens felt like walking back in time and Mom and I argued over childhood issues that should have been forgotten years ago. I had to cut my visit short and Mom was crying as she walked away from the airport.

My daughter also left home at fifteen and moved into my old room at my Mom's house. That was what finally motivated Mom to reclaim that room.

The other room was my daughter's room in a rental. The house is a two-bedroom that we had to grab on very short notice to avoid becoming homeless. I have two children of opposite genders, so of course the kiddos got the bedrooms and I slept on a couch in the living room. The house is not designed well for this, although it is a nice house, and dd and I both had sleep deprivation issues. A lot of her furniture was damaged in the move and we could not afford to replace it.

For about a year before she left home, she took many frequent trips to visit friends and family, and had no problem with me sleeping in her room. My friends encouraged me to do so, since my back problems were exacerbated by sleeping on a worn-out couch for four years. I could never bring myself to do it and we wound up with the pathetic situation of my daughter's unpleasant cat having its own room for months at a time while I was dumped on the couch like an unwelcome visitor.

When dd moved away, I had fears of becoming a Miss Haversham with the closed off shrine to the dear departed. She packed what she wanted to take threw away what she wanted thrown away (no peeking) and I forced myself to sleep in her bed that night. It took about a year before I moved all of her stuff out except for one little corner where her TV used to be and her Princess Leia folder and Lisa Frank notebook still remain on a milk crate filled with Laura Ingalls Wilder books. She always encouraged me with suggestions of how she imagined my "Linux Geek Lair" should look.

Well, guess what? She came home.

I'm constantly offering her old room back to her, but she turns me down. The living room is more personalized and less of a "living room" than it was when I slept on the couch, which feels appropriate to me. It's not any easier for her to sleep on the couch than it was for me, but I see appreciation for the four years I "made do" instead of entitlement to the other bedroom.

I'm also less afraid of visiting my mother and morphing into an unhappy teenager again now that the "room that time forgot" is gone.

I hope our story makes you feel better; there really is no right answer about what to do with a grown child's room; my grandmother kept my mother's and my aunt's rooms exactly as they had left them and Mom and Aunt Betsy found it comforting rather than creepy.

You did what you did. It's just a room. Your relationship with your daughter is what matters, not a bunch of material objects in an empty space.


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sevenkids*
Second, if you move out of an apartment, your former landlord is not going to hang on to your things or your apartment, just in case you change your mind. I gaurantee they will be gone in the next bulk trash pick-up, and as soon as the paint dries, someone else will be using that space. You are responsable for removing them yourself or making suitable arrangements for them, and if you don't, someone will do it for you. That is what is expected of responsable adults. ...

Are you REALLY equating a childhood/family home with rental property? That they contain the same width and breadth of emotion? Because my dad still got a bit teary when my grandfather sold his childhood house about 5 years ago. Something to the effect that he really COULDN'T ever go home again now and my dad's over 50.

And your right you move out of an apartment the stuff is GONE if you don't take it. But if you move out of your family home the same is not expected. You seem to have a really hardass attitude on this and can't seem to find away to see why her daughter MIGHT feel rejected.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sevenkids*
Third, it's not her space anymore. She gave it up of her own free will and handed it back to her parents. It is now their space to do with as they will.

...

The natural order of things is children grow up, make mistakes, learn the lessons life has to offer, and become strong and healthy adults. The natural order of things is parents raise them to be adults and let them _be_ adults.

She hasn't been thrown in, she jumped willingly. And her parents, instead of jumping in after her, are watching close by, ready to assist her if she sinks.

You talk about making mistakes and her parents being there to assist her if needed, but can't see how she might be wondering if moving out WAS a mistake, or at least a scarey step and MAYBE, just MAYBE she's feeling adrift now. What if her choice doesn't work out and she doesn't have a "nest" to fall back to? You can't see how that would be at least disconcerting to her? REALLY?

OP:
I think you've handled it well. I hope your daughter comes around now. You didn't mean harm, but it was inflicted. We all make mistakes. We do our best to fix the damage and move forward! Good for you for trying to fix the damage and move forward!


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## liawbh (Sep 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sevenkids*
First, The racial slurs and swastikas would have been gone long before she moved out, in fact, she would have had to remove them herself and paint over the walls long before she even _thought_ about leaving. No way in hell would I have tolerated, er, _respected_







, that sort of "self-expression" in _my_ home.

There were several non-GD replies waay before that info was given. That is a sep. issue.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sevenkids*
Second, if you move out of an apartment, your former landlord is not going to hang on to your things or your apartment, just in case you change your mind. I gaurantee they will be gone in the next bulk trash pick-up, and as soon as the paint dries, someone else will be using that space. You are responsable for removing them yourself or making suitable arrangements for them, and if you don't, someone will do it for you. That is what is expected of responsable adults.

So we're just landlords to our kids???
Third, it's not her space anymore. She gave it up of her own free will and handed it back to her parents. It is now their space to do with as they will.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sevenkids*
If she wants to come back, the OP made it clear she was welcome. However, the dynamics have been changed. It has nothing to do with being punished and everything to do with moving on, growing up, and dealing with the consequences of her decisions.

The OP, and the later post re: the DH's response sounds a LOT like punishment, or "oh, yeah, take that."

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sevenkids*
The natural order of things is children grow up, make mistakes, learn the lessons life has to offer, and become strong and healthy adults. The natural order of things is parents raise them to be adults and let them _be_ adults.

She hasn't even finished HS yet.


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## liawbh (Sep 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sevenkids*
Why would an 18 year old adult even _need_ GD?

Hmm,. let me think . . .
basic respect
she's still your child
Golden Rule
again, not even finished with HS

Really? All of you are going to be done respecting and teaching your children the minute they hit 18? What if they move out before 18? What if they are still in HS at 19? What if they live at home and go to college?

Suddenly it's OK to toss all their stuff and erase their presence from your house?
Really?


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

Let's check the Mothering magazine's authoritative list of gentle discipline techniques (found on the sticky on the GD forum).

I would say the OP's actions are in accordance with these GD principles, as obtained from that list.

Quote:

# Say yes as much as possible.
# Save no for the important things.
# Use natural consequences.
# Use logical consequences.
# State your expectations, and get out of the way.
# Give specific instructions.
# Give a reason.
# Offer help.
# Give a choice.
# Give your child time to agree.
# Simply insist.
# Make rules.
# Ignore some behavior.
# Avoid nagging and threats.
# Model appropriate behavior.
# Think of your child as an equal.
# Always keep your love for your child in mind.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

My mother did that within 2 weeks of my leaving home! I was pissed, but really, the room WAS a mess and she was right to redecorate it. She'd always been ashamed of it and it was visible from the front door if the bedroom door was open...In retrospect, it was pretty disrespectful of me to have the graffiti etc in the first place...

I guess I felt that she should have at least told me she was going to do so. But she'd always made it clear that it was "her house" as opposed to "our house" so it's more surprising that she put up with it as long as she did and she certainly didn't need my permission to do so!


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## WNB (Apr 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liawbh*
Hmm,. let me think . . .
basic respect
she's still your child
Golden Rule
again, not even finished with HS

Really? All of you are going to be done respecting and teaching your children the minute they hit 18? What if they move out before 18? What if they are still in HS at 19? What if they live at home and go to college?

Suddenly it's OK to toss all their stuff and erase their presence from your house?
Really?

I think it's reasonable to expect to be treated with respect by your children, (assuming you have treated them with respect as well). Moving furnishings and clothes to storage areas so that you can make productive use of an area in your house need not be synonymous with erasing one's presence from the house. It sounds like there might have been some elements of an "eviction" in the process though -- which is precisely what you'd hope to avoid in this situation.

I would also say that reclaiming the space so quickly was ill-planned because it sounds like the daughter's living arrangements are NOT particularly safe and steady yet. They were evicted after a week in the first place, and then hunting around (no word on resolution that I'm aware of) for a second place. It does not sound to me like the situation is stable enough to warrant making it harder for her to come home if DD realizes the bad situation she seems to be putting herself in.

Good luck, Ciarra.


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## sevenkids (Dec 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liawbh*
There were several non-GD replies waay before that info was given. That is a sep. issue.

So we're just landlords to our kids???

_You_ brought up "eviction" as an example, I was simply expanding on _your_ example. The lesson to be learned here is, if you don't secure your own belongings, they will be taken care of by someone else, and maybe not in a way that is to your liking.

Quote:

The OP, and the later post re: the DH's response sounds a LOT like punishment, or "oh, yeah, take that."
What, the part about her wanting to move out and that she shouldn't be expecting for her room to be kept indefinately? Maybe he was motivated out of hurt and anger, but it's not unreasonable to reclaim the space and make it more attractive.

Quote:

She hasn't even finished HS yet.
Apparently, that was not an issue when she decided to move out.


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## sevenkids (Dec 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pynki*
Are you REALLY equating a childhood/family home with rental property? That they contain the same width and breadth of emotion? Because my dad still got a bit teary when my grandfather sold his childhood house about 5 years ago. Something to the effect that he really COULDN'T ever go home again now and my dad's over 50.

Actually, the person I was replying to did, and wanted an explanation as to why it was an important lesson to learn that if you don't take care of your own things, someone else will handle your business for you.

Quote:

And your right you move out of an apartment the stuff is GONE if you don't take it. But if you move out of your family home the same is not expected. You seem to have a really hardass attitude on this and can't seem to find away to see why her daughter MIGHT feel rejected.
Maybe I am a hard-ass. And I do see why she might feel rejected, as unfounded as those feelings may be. She wasn't rejected, she chose to leave, and she needs to be willing to deal with the re-actions to her actions. Believe it or not, kids need to grow up and they need to learn how to function as adults in society. 18 is not 8, or 4, or 12. 18 is about 16 years after the ability to reason develops.

Quote:

You talk about making mistakes and her parents being there to assist her if needed, but can't see how she might be wondering if moving out WAS a mistake, or at least a scarey step and MAYBE, just MAYBE she's feeling adrift now. What if her choice doesn't work out and she doesn't have a "nest" to fall back to? You can't see how that would be at least disconcerting to her? REALLY?
Um, who said I couldn't see where she might be disconcerted? I mean, REALLY? Saying Mom was not in the wrong, she doesn't owe her adult child an apology, and allowing her adult child to experience adult life the way said adult child wanted to does not exclude room for empathy.


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## sevenkids (Dec 16, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liawbh*
Hmm,. let me think . . .
basic respect
she's still your child
Golden Rule
again, not even finished with HS

Really? All of you are going to be done respecting and teaching your children the minute they hit 18? What if they move out before 18? What if they are still in HS at 19? What if they live at home and go to college?

Suddenly it's OK to toss all their stuff and erase their presence from your house?
Really?

Seriously, my goal is to have laid a solid foundation of independence, rational thinking, self-sufficiency, self-worth, security in knowing that I will always be there for them if they need me, and the ability to take care of themselves so that by the time they are thinking about moving out and on, they will do so as healthy, well-adjusted adults with the mental and emotional capacity to handle themselves and those around them with competence, intelligence, and respect.

Really.


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## Red (Feb 6, 2002)

Well, I'm on kid number 3 to move out. She goes to college in the fall. SInce we know in advance she's going, and since her sisters are pretty squished, we've honestly discussed the fact that we're going to be using her bedroom.

I've assigned her the upper bunk (extra large, built -in's with curtains and electric!) and have asked her to pack things up in drawer style boxes that can be stored in the closet. I've stressed that she's always welcome home and we'll always have a place for her.

She's excited now, but I expect seeing her sisters in what used to be her room will be a blow.

My older two both moved out under different circumstances. Although they were always welcome home to visit, I didn't necessarily want them home to live.

I think It's fine to let kids know that they're expected to be staying out on their own,. but that there is a safety net.

OTOH, my parents moved 3 months BEFORE I moved out, to a smaller house iwth NO bedroom for me. I was moved into a tiny room wiht my sister, with just enough room to sleep. When I did HAVE to come home to live, with a 3 yo dd in tow, I was relagated to the upper bunk WITH dd in a foster sisters room. And it was no built in! I felt let in, but not welcomed, YK?

I think your dd needs to know that you expect her to succeed, but have a soft spot for her to land if she has trouble.

And I thinmk a few months of keeping her room open would have done alot to make her feel she had her home waiting for her. It's such a sensitive age.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

If my parents did that, it would have broke my heart. I needed my room at "home" to be my room for a couple years after I'd left home. It is a hard transition from child to adult (and it hit me espeically hard since i think I hit all that angsty teenage stuff at 18 rather than 16). I can't imagine how much harder it would have been if my mom wanted me to box up my stuff and take down my "decorations" (which I am sure were eye sores to her); wanted to basically turn my room into a guest room.

I made some not great choices and my parents were pretty frustrated with me and my choices. But I always had my room, my space within their space. It was mine.

My parenst weren't ap, but they loved and supproted me without placing conditions on that love and support. My room in their home was but one sign of those lack of conditions.


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## yogachick79 (Apr 4, 2006)

Wow, I am sitting hear reading the posts with my jaw dropping (the snide and snippy ones). I can speak from personal experience as far as moving out at a young age. I was preg at 17 and moved out right after my 18th birthday. Not ONCE did I think that my room would stay the way that I left it (poetry scribbled on the walls, etc) and that was NON vulgar stuff. IMHO my parents had every right to repaint and refresh the room a bit. I was always welcome in my parents home and always felt that way even after moving out. Granted the first month or so of being on my own was a bit hard and scary but EVERYONE had to face that at some point. If you are still offering the space to her when she wants it, just without the very inappropriate things in it, then more power to you! Maybe keep her bed, some nice pictures, and some other personal things in there but you had every right to remove and repaint to eliminate the negative images in there.

Trust me, when she is older she will hopefully understand that those things are wrong and that you are still her loving mom. And to all of those posters who don't have teenage kids who are troubled or haven't been a troubled teenager who has grown up and become much wiser about your past, shame on you for being so harsh.


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

I got married and moved out at 17. My parents left my room exactly the way it was for me. UNTIL, my older sister moved back in. They gave her MY room and let her totally destroy all the beautiful painting I had done. I didn't mind her painting the walls. I mean, it hurt, but I could live with it. However, I requested that she not paint over the bookshelves I installed and handpainted myself. She did anyway. I am very bitter over it.

Yes, it was no longer _my_ room, but it was still my feelings. My heart was put into that room and to have it just torn apart really hurt. I can't imagine how painful it would've been to have my parents try to wipe my memories out of the house the day after I moved out.


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## MillingNome (Nov 18, 2005)

I dunno. It sounds like dd had all the time in the world to pack up her stuff. Her parents did it only after giving her fair warning in a respectful by neatly doing it in boxes. My dc will always be welcome in the house after they leave but their rooms will be used for other things as needed. The op I thought was gd'ing. Her dd has a SIX FIGURE settlement to help with the transition too, right? If her things meant so much to her, why did she not take them?


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

I'm curious about something ~ for those of you who believe the op was wrong ~ how long should one keep the teen's room as it was before changing it? What if a parent could really use the room for other siblings or something else? I'm very puzzled about this, because when I moved out at 18, I didn't care at all what my parents did with my room. Even though I visited very often, I don't think I ever even checked out my room when I was there. Neither of my children who moved out worried about it either. I have things stored in the garage to redecorate my daughter's room after she moves out, and she just laughs about it! Maybe, if you are really mentally prepared to move out and leave the nest for good, it doesn't bother you?


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## my4magpies (Mar 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calidris*
Well unless you needed the room for something else (in which case it is no longer "her" room) why the drastic changes? Clearly the filthy posters and vulgar words meant something to her.
Seems pretty disrespectful to me.

Are you kidding me?? I think mom had the right to do as she sees fit in her home. It's disrespectful for DD to NOT do as mom asked!!


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## Kathryn (Oct 19, 2004)

I guess I don't see the parents as landlords as it seems many of you do. I see the home as the family's home, not the parents home.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kathryn*
I guess I don't see the parents as landlords as it seems many of you do. I see the home as the family's home, not the parents home.

Me too.

I honestly think what the OP did was tactless. Even if I think I'm 'in the right' with my kids, I try _very_ hard not to hurt feelings. As an 18 y/o I'd have been very hurt by this.









I don't see my house as 'mine'. It's ours - all of ours. At some point the kids won't need to live here, but what I do with their rooms will be agreed together. If graffitti bothers me, I'd want to sort that out at the time, not wait until I can erase it as soon as my child has gone.

I'm surprised by all the talk of dd being 'disrespectful.' Children are often disrespectful, & it's our job to lead by example and guide gently and tactfully. 18 may seem grown up, but it's a scary age for most kids, and I want to keep my relationship with mine as easy as possible - which may mean leaving a room unused for a while and waiting for a time to gently help my child let go of symbolic, emotional ties to home.

I want our home to always feel like a soft place for my kids to fall.


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum*
I honestly think what the OP did was tactless. Even if I think I'm 'in the right' with my kids, I try _very_ hard not to hurt feelings. As an 18 y/o I'd have been very hurt by this.









I don't see my house as 'mine'. It's ours - all of ours. At some point the kids won't need to live here, but what I do with their rooms will be agreed together. If graffitti bothers me, I'd want to sort that out at the time, not wait until I can erase it as soon as my child has gone.

I'm surprised by all the talk of dd being 'disrespectful.' Children are often disrespectful, & it's our job to lead by example and guide gently and tactfully. 18 may seem grown up, but it's a scary age for most kids, and I want to keep my relationship with mine as easy as possible - which may mean leaving a room unused for a while and waiting for a time to gently help my child let go of symbolic, emotional ties to home.

I want our home to always feel like a soft place for my kids to fall.









Yes.

Like Kathryn, I regard a home as for a family, not for a person. Even as little as "Home is when you have to go there, they have to take you in."

The graffitti issue definately should have been dealt with before she was leaving.

And, on the topic of 'GD is for children', I disagree. I work in a very contentious environment and can definately state that GD is a much better management method in the long run. Properly used, it works on construction contractors, too.


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

Part of GD and AP is balancing the needs of the entire family.


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## papayapetunia (Feb 6, 2006)

I'm pretty sure that the OP has thought over the way things went down and realizes she may have jumped the gun a little bit. She said she's going to talk this over with her daughter. It doesn't seem like she ever had the attitude that it's her house and the daughter should just get over it. She posted here, because she was genuinely interested in her daughter's feelings. I don't understand why a lot of these posts seem to reflect that the OP is some insensitive witch.


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## Penelope (Jul 22, 2003)

I went to college at 18 and became engaged to marry dh at 20. My mom did some remodeling around then and my former bedroom is now combined with the extra bedroom to make a large guest room. It didn't bother me at all.

As long as your daughter has a place to sleep and is welcome in your home, I don't think what you did was wrong.

The racist "vulgar" writing, however, wouldn't stay in my home for one day after it came to my attention - that's just not acceptable. IMO, going against the grain as it may be, your only mistake was not painting over that sooner.


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

Food for thought on the vulgar words/ grafitti issue. Parents becoming upset and causing drama over removing such expressions gives power to the behavior. A parent who sees the vulgarity and shrugs it off is showing that those words do not have the power to shock. (It's analagous to the martial art of Akido in which one gives in rather than resists an opponent.) Also, if my teenager were to ever feel the need to express things of that nature, I'd rather see them do it within the four walls of my own home than with a spray can on public property.


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## Canadianmommax3 (Mar 6, 2006)

the girl was asked to pack and move her stuff to the basement and she didn't. I think the only thing you could have done differently is tell your daughter that you had plans on using the room.


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonconformnmom*
Food for thought on the vulgar words/ grafitti issue.

One person's vulgarity is another's plain speaking. That's not the problem in my eyes: It was _racist_ grafitti.

And ignoring racism wherever it rears its head is not going to make it go away. It gives it space to feel smug and entitled.


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## dolphinkisser (Dec 26, 2003)

Ciarra....here is some input from another mother of a 18 soon to be 19 year old ds. You did nothing wrong. You asked her to move posters that you did not feel good about before she left. She was the one who refused to respect you by ignoring your wishes.
You have the right to expect respect and to feel comfortable with the stuff that is in your home. Your home is your safe haven and if there is something that you are not comfortable with or something that is giving out negative energy you have every right to take it down. You did not destroy it...your dd is the one who has decided to move out and you have told her that you are always welcome back.
You seem to me like a wonderful mother. As you can see from my posts , i am far from a regular here...but every once i have a strong urge to speak my mind. I feel so bad for the harsh judgemental posts toward your decision. You did nothing wrong...please don't feel any guilt. I understand.


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## fierymyst (May 27, 2006)

Whew... so many opinions that see saw back and forth on this subject.

IMO I would say that depending on how long she was gone, maybe it was a little fast but maybe talking about it is the answer. It is YOUR house so you should be able to decorate how you want but understand her feelings that for 18 years, that was her space, her sanctuary where she could get away from life, her special place that she could decorate and express herself away from the rest of the family. I may not be happy with the things my children have done with their rooms but unless there is destruction of property, I consider it their territory and just shut the door. Was there a reason maybe that you felt the need to redecorate right away, was it maybe your way of dealing with her being gone? If it was discuss that with her, show her you still love her but express that it was hard for her to go and that was how you dealt with it. If it had nothing to do with that then explain what made you choose to do that. Also stress she is always welcome in your home (if she is) and no matter the color of paint that it will always be her room.


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## hutsonmom (Sep 30, 2006)

my 18 yo decided to try and move out a month or so after she turned 18 she was still in hs so moved in with her aunt. she was back home within a month or so. i did let her sister take her room when she moved out as two of my kids were sharing a room at the time so when she moved back she had to share a room with the youngest but it did not seem to bother her at all. most of her stuff was at the house still, just packed away. when she moved back in we just unpacked into the room she would now be in. and she has been fine ever since. so maybe if you just explain that she is always welcome and that she is always wanted then maybe it would take the sting out of her anger. if she moves back just explain that she can not change the wall coloring as the house is either on the market or will be soon. i assume you would have painted over the walls even if she had been living at home when the decision was made to sale the house. i think that is resonable and fair and if she does not maybe she just needs a little time to adjust. anytime you are dealing with a child this age it can turn difficult try and connect with her and keep things on a loving note. my own child decided to move out because she thought she did not need rules and mom tending to her but found quickly that she still wanted to be a kid at least for a little while longer.

good luck no matter what you decide to do.

hutsonmom


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## JenniferH (Feb 24, 2005)

I guess I see it a little differently. I shared a room with my little sister for 15 years, so I guess I never really felt like it was "my" room. I had posters, pictures and all that stuff, but it was never my space. Not really.

When I moved out I couldn't have cared less what my sister did to the room. I was so ready for my OWN house that it didn't even cross my mind that she might change it. I took all my stuff with me when I went, and boy was I ready to get out! When I came back on weekends, I was a guest (my own thoughts) because I had my own place with my own stuff and I was just visiting.

Different strokes, I guess.


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