# "you told him no, so don't let him!"



## seemfrog (Mar 30, 2006)

oh, I'm so annoyed right now...

DH came in the room while I was giving my boys "10 sips" before bed (he is putting them down tonight - we have just started taking turns, one puts them down for the night, the other attends to any night needs and generally ends up staying with them at some point in the early morning hrs)

ds2 didn't want to stop nursing after his "10 sips" were up, honestly it has been getting to me that he does this a lot, I am really ready for the nursing to be over soon, and when I set a limit, or let them set the limit one or both will not want to stop (EVER). So I am calmly trying to talk with him about it, give a few more seconds, bring it up, ask when he will be finished, etc and DH gets upset and says "You told him NO, so don't let him!" and I fire back at him... DH is really really great with the kids, he really tries and has read books with me, follows my examples, we discuss lots of techniques, etc, he stays at home with them 4 days, me 3, etc BUT he resorts to authoritarian measures whenever he gets irritated (I do when I get REALLY irritated, but his fuse tends to be shorter).

Anyway, it made me think of this matter in general, it seems like whenever he's had a hard day he feels this way, but what do you all think? He will suddenly get fed up and say "why are we letting them do whatever they want? it just seems like we keep giving in!" I of course think we are giving them choices, letting them tell us when they have strong emotions about wanting to do something, etc, this extends to all areas of life. As for nursing, well, I suddenly feel like I'm not being supported, like he doesn't understand the relationship at all if he feels like its the same as "stop throwing your toys" or "that's enough grapes"

guess this is partly a VENT, but also, just wanting to hear if there are any thoughts on these matters!

thanks.


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## Kira's mom (Nov 30, 2004)

I just want to say hooray for nursing twins for 3 yrs. That is amazing. I nursed on demand, but I only had one. i don't think his frustration has anything to do with you at all. If you can remember that it may help. When nursing it was very hard for me to set limits. I did encourage dd to 'sleep all night and we'll drink milk in the morning' or 'For me to be a good mommy I need to sleep all night'. I personally think it's great that you talk to them about this. I don't know if anyone who hasn't been there could truly understand!! Keep up the good work. You are my hero!!


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

My DH is much the same way with discipline, so are many of my friends husbands. I tend to work out an amicable solution for all. My DH tends to get frustrated easier and "lay down the law"- no room for negotiation. I really, really need to work on keeping my mouth shut when he does this and the kids are around. I think "saving" them from their dad causes more damage than not having a completely "gentle" upbringing. I don't know if this is healthy or not but we have an unspoken rule that whoever starts the discipline or boundary setting, finishes it. I try not to interfere with his discipline, except to validate kids feelings when they inevitably cry to me, and I expect the same from DH- not to get heavy-handed (don't mean hitting) when I am trying to work out the issue with discussion etc.

That being said- I have been pretty irritated in the past about almost the same issue with nursing. I figure they are MY breasts- I will decide how and when to use them


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## hollydlr (May 17, 2007)

I am by no means an expert on this but have been struggling with the "no means no" issue as well. I am wondering if something that might work better instead of saying "only 10 sips" and then not making them stop, would be to just talk to them about nursing less, gently suggesting but not putting a specific limit on it. I am wondering if the kids see it as a competition between you and them, the longer they keep nursing after you say done, the more they win the little tug-o-war game? Also if you don't set a specific limit, your DH would not see it as "giving in"? If you are going to take it away anyway, don't negotiate it, just do it, and if not, what's the sense in setting the uninforced limit?

Am I totally off the mark here? Sorry if I am, I'm tired and I've already rewritten this post a few times trying to figure out how to say what I mean clearly... Good luck mama and I hope you feel better after venting at least!

As for my struggles with the issue, I am trying to discern what approach is more "gentle," what the psychological effects of different approaches to saying no and setting limits have on my kid and our relationship... Maybe someone out there can sum it up easily?


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## rhiandmoi (Apr 28, 2006)

I am going to come from a different perspective on this. Once you set a limit, if you allow what you've said you don't allow you are sending a mixed message. You are basically telling your boys that no does not mean no and that they can use someone else's body after that person has set limits if they are insistent enough. If you don't want to have limits on nursing that is fine, but if you set a limit it should be a limit that you are willing to enforce. I think the relationship is important to maintain, and that you are probably not ready for set limits on nursing, or maybe not on bedtime nursing.


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## dynamicdoula (Jun 11, 2004)

Maybe I don't understand (and I grant, that's possibly the case







) but I don't understand why expressing a boundary about your body and then sticking to it is authoritarian. I think that's what I hear your husband saying. You're negotiating with your child after you've set a boundary, which just blurs the lines and makes the boundary almost impossible to enforce. I can imagine doing what you describe but I can't imagine it's helpful to either one of you- he gets to nurse under pressure and with a feeling of guilt, and you are nursing when you don't want to be.

What happens if you stick to your word? Is it possible that is what your husband is asking? Clue me in if I have this totally wrong...


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## mamaUK (Jul 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhiandmoi* 
I am going to come from a different perspective on this. Once you set a limit, if you allow what you've said you don't allow you are sending a mixed message. You are basically telling your boys that no does not mean no and that they can use someone else's body after that person has set limits if they are insistent enough. If you don't want to have limits on nursing that is fine, but if you set a limit it should be a limit that you are willing to enforce. I think the relationship is important to maintain, and that you are probably not ready for set limits on nursing, or maybe not on bedtime nursing.

I totally agree with this, I am a firm believer in 'say what you mean, mean what you say' and if you are not prepared to follow through on the limits you have set don't set them in the first place. Otherwise it could spread to other areas of your life and they will think 'mommy doesn't mean what she say, so if i keep on pushing for what i want, i will get it'. If parents set boundaries which they don't keep to themselves i think it can be very confusing for children and make them feel more insecure. I agree with poster quoted that you inside your heart probably aren't ready to limit nursing at bedtime quite yet. I bet they love this special time with you


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I think it makes it harder for the child if you set limits and then don't follow through. I think it can create a nervous sort of tension for the child to hear about and talk about limits, to get internally charged up and ready, and then have the stopping point be unclear. It means that he is never sure about what will happen with nursing, and over time I think you end up with more fussing, more clinging, and more anxiety over the whole issue. So I agree that if you say "10 sips," then its important to be prepared to follow through. OTOH, you don't have to set that limit in the first place if you don't want to handle it that way.

As far as your DH, I think the answer is to institute more structure *before* he starts feeling grouchy or having a bad day. Planning and structure help keep parents from being so reactive. But yes, I can see that the feelings of being swamped and things feeling out of control probably feel more intense and more real at the end of a hard day. I get those feelings too, and its probably natural and unavoidable to some extent. Things are never 100% "under control" with small children, are they?


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I agree that if you set a limit, it's good to stick to it. The choice comes at the start, not at the end.

That said, I occasionally change my mind if I've set some really dumb limit (as I do a few times a week) but I always say:

... I am changing my mind (once) or
... I am NOT changing my mind (final no)

so there's at least a clear signal.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

As GuildJenn says, the choice about limits comes at the start not the end. And you can also do things to help with the approach to the limit. Like counting down the sips, talking about something good that happpens next "when you've had 10 sips daddy'll read you a story", etc, etc.


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## bscal (Feb 13, 2006)

I agree that your DH is probably looking at it from the perspective of trying to help you to set limits. If there is any negotiation it should be before the nursing sessions starts. For example, if you tell your son that he can have 10 sips before bed and he asks for 12 instead and you agree to that negotiation. I negotiate terms with my oldest DD quite often... normally about bedtime. I tell her 10 minutes until lights out, she requests 15 minutes instead so she can finish writing a story in her journal or looking at a book and I agree to her "terms" as long as she asks nicely. I would not "give in" if she just didn't turn her lights off after 10 minutes because she's the type of child to push things very far and we'd end up dealing with this until midnight. She has behavioral issues if she does not get an appropriate amount of sleep and has major problems turning her brain off at night... so I have to enforce bedtime. So, IMO, letting your child negotiate with you BEFORE he starts nursing would be okay. Just letting him continue to nurse after you've told him to stop does not sit well with me.

Also, I don't like basically teaching your child that he can do whatever he wants with YOUR body. I think teaching children at a young age that NO means NO is important. If you are not comfortable continuing a nursing session past 10 sips or so then he needs to learn to respect that. And I think he's old enough at 3 to start learning about personal space. I know my middle child is 3 and I am teaching her to respect other people's bodies. (Most particularly not to touch little brother's winkie!)

HTH,
Beth


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## Kay11 (Aug 30, 2006)

I think that you should try to negotiate before starting nursing rather than during when DS2 wants to carry on and you're feeling like you've had enough. I think it's good to help your children see that you have to compromise sometimes, but that it's good for them to do that too. And I really don't think 3 is too young for that.

On the no means no issue in general, even if I've said it over something that I realise is pretty stupid afterwards, I stick to it. I want my kids to know that I mean what I say and that if I tell them something it's because it's true. I believe consistency and trust are really important, and sticking to my word comes under that.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

I think nursing is such a unique thing. If you have not nursed your own child for 3 years you might not fully understand the complexity of the relationship. I'm not trying to be negative and put down Mommas that don't nurse or whose children weaned at a younger age here. I'm just saying that unless you have experienced it you just might not get it.

Your child wanting more "sips" is not the same as wanting more candy, or not wanting to take a bath. There is a very real emotional component that needs to be respected.

I am currently nursing my 5 year old (down to just 1 time in the morning...I'm so ready to stop!) and her little brother. My DD has a very strong attachment to nursing. She really needs the closeness, the one on one time, the connection, and I believe the hormones (or what ever it is) that the brain produces when young children nurse. I can meet most of her needs other ways but sometimes she needs the whole package. She will try all kinds of tricks to get more nursing time. But I can tell the difference between her just pushing for more and times when she really NEEDS to nurse. So when she has had a horribly rough day and just can't cope I will let her nurse. When she is sick, we nurse.

Giving in to your child's need to nurse (or even your child's need to be parented to sleep in other ways) does not make you a bad parent. It makes you a good parent that is responding to your child's very real needs.

It's also sooooo hard and lonely to be in a position where you would like to stop nursing (or limit it) but your child is not quite there and the people around you that were supportive suddenly start being critical. I can't imagine how I would feel if my partner was the one being critical. (My mother's wise cracks are hard enough to take!)

Hugs to you momma. Follow your heart on this and do what is best for you and your kids. You will never regret it. Tell your husband to but out. Nursing is between you and your kids. (Then come vent in the extended nursing forum!)

I also wanted to say that the idea that once you start weaning and limit setting you can't go backward is BS! Children often grow in a few steps forward then a step back kind of way.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

It may be that you are very tense and not acting like yourself because you are ready to be done nursing and your dh reaction came from wanting you to have less tension in your life. When I was really ready for my dd to wean I was very tense and my relationship with dd and everyone else went downhill a lot but I wasn't able to see that it had until she weaned. My family was very unsupportive of me continuing to nurse but it was because they saw that it was no longer a good thing for me and dd. I think you should talk to your dh about this and see if that is part of what is going on.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Something else to consider is maybe breaking the before bed nursing into two sessions. Like, brush your teeth or something halfway through. Sometimes, just the fact that you get to do something again makes it feel like you're doing it for longer.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kay11* 
I think that you should try to negotiate before starting nursing rather than during when DS2 wants to carry on and you're feeling like you've had enough. I think it's good to help your children see that you have to compromise sometimes, but that it's good for them to do that too. And I really don't think 3 is too young for that.

On the no means no issue in general, even if I've said it over something that I realise is pretty stupid afterwards, I stick to it. I want my kids to know that I mean what I say and that if I tell them something it's because it's true. I believe consistency and trust are really important, and sticking to my word comes under that.

As long as you're also consistent when you're stupid about saying "yes."


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## daytripper75 (Jul 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhiandmoi* 
I am going to come from a different perspective on this. Once you set a limit, if you allow what you've said you don't allow you are sending a mixed message. You are basically telling your boys that no does not mean no and that they can use someone else's body after that person has set limits if they are insistent enough. If you don't want to have limits on nursing that is fine, but if you set a limit it should be a limit that you are willing to enforce. I think the relationship is important to maintain, and that you are probably not ready for set limits on nursing, or maybe not on bedtime nursing.









:

I agree that only setting limits when you plan to enforce them is very important. I would tend to agree that maybe your husband is trying to protect you in his own way.


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## MissSJ (Oct 23, 2005)

OP, it is great that you have nursed your twins for so long!

It is strange to be one of the few that doesn't agree with the bulk of the other responders to a thread here at MDC. I don't see anything wrong with telling a child no or setting a boundary and then changing your mind. Now that I've typed that I guess it depends on the scenario. I can't speak to your particular situation (the PPs have brought up good points) since I have not gone through the weaning/limited BF process yet but we've had plenty of times where I have said no to something then realized that the request wasn't a big deal and I should have said yes. Instead of continuing with my no just because I said no in the first place I explain to my children that I have thought about xyz, changed my mind and yes they can _____. IMO there is nothing wrong with showing children that you can reflect on something and change your mind. I feel it shows them you are flexible, that sometimes we make rash decisions and that it is ok to change your mind about things. Having said that, I do not change my mind about things just because my children are whining, crying or asking me the same thing over and over and over. I have not found that changing my mind about "nos" leads to that type of behavior in my children when my no does not change to a yes.

Once again, I want to say I am just speaking about changing your mind about saying no in general not about the OPs BF scenario she mentioned.

OP, hope you and your dh can find a way to resolve this.









SJ


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhiandmoi* 
I am going to come from a different perspective on this. Once you set a limit, if you allow what you've said you don't allow you are sending a mixed message. You are basically telling your boys that no does not mean no and that they can use someone else's body after that person has set limits if they are insistent enough. If you don't want to have limits on nursing that is fine, but if you set a limit it should be a limit that you are willing to enforce. I think the relationship is important to maintain, and that you are probably not ready for set limits on nursing, or maybe not on bedtime nursing.











Say what you mean and mean what you say
















Congrats on your nursing two littles that long







:


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## hollycat (Aug 13, 2008)

of course there is a unique emotional/security component to nursing but there is also a unique emotional/security component to letting your kids know they can really trust you and feel safe in your limits and guidance. when you waffle, they can feel really insecure too, which can result in more need for more breast and a circle.

good answers.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSJ* 
OI don't see anything wrong with telling a child no or setting a boundary and then changing your mind. Now that I've typed that I guess it depends on the scenario.

Yeah... I agree that at times it's ok. I have seen so many people stick to bad decisions in their lives, or stay fighting with people because they could not back down, that I want to model that for my son too.

At the same time, if it's a nightly argument, I think it's good to firm up the guidelines.

I'm still nursing at 3.5 yrs but we do limit it, and I'm fine with sticking to the initially-discussed limit. Hugs are pretty unlimited, but nursing is not at this point - it was a sanity thing for me.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
I think nursing is such a unique thing. If you have not nursed your own child for 3 years you might not fully understand the complexity of the relationship.









:

I am a _very_ big proponent of sticking by your word, especially when you set a limit. But nursing *is* different. The closest comparison I can come up with is: "It's time for Mommy to get up now."
"But Mommy, I want more hug!"

I am also not going to attempt to use force to unlatch an upset toddler with a full set of teeth who is attached to my breast.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I think I agree with your DH on this one- don't set limits you're not prepared to enforce. If you're not willing to be so "dead set" about nursing limits, then set different kinds of limits for nursing.

I've tandem nursed and I've nursed a child for over 4 years, but I don't have any experience with intentional weaning or this kind of limit-setting on nursing. My limits have always been gentle distraction, offering a beverage and/or a snack before nursing, saying "not now" just because I didn't feel like nursing at that moment, or ending a nursing session "because it doesn't feel good right now." Nursing isn't a "discipline" issue; it's a "respecting my body limits" kind of issue.

It sounds like the "just 10 sips" isn't working. If you're not willing to enforce it, then you need to find a different way to limit the nursing sessions. Or, if you think this IS working, except for your DH butting in, then I'd tell DH simply, plainly, and firmly to butt out of the nursing relationship. Tell him it's different from other kinds of discipline and you've got it under control.


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## crittersmum (Feb 26, 2008)

First off, I second the pp with saying congratulations on nursing your babies for this long!

I'm struggling with this right now, too. Sometimes I say "No" too quickly, I think, and so when DD really starts to turn the screws I'm thinking to myself that perhaps I was too hasty and end up shrugging and saying, "OK." To be honest, just seeing that written in black and white I can tell that I've got some work to do: first on following through and second on trying to say "Yes" more than "No."

And as an aside:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dandelionkid* 
I think "saving" them from their dad causes more damage than not having a completely "gentle" upbringing. I don't know if this is healthy or not but we have an unspoken rule that whoever starts the discipline or boundary setting, finishes it.

I grew up in a household exactly like that, with Mom "saving" us from Dad. There was probably a lot of other complicating factors but...it didn't turn out well. All of us kids still wait for someone to "save" us from difficult situations to one extent or another.







That said, it sounds like you're a very conscientious parent, with great instincts, so just go with 'em! If you think it would serve your family better to run interference, I say do it!


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
I think I agree with your DH on this one- don't set limits you're not prepared to enforce. If you're not willing to be so "dead set" about nursing limits, then set different kinds of limits for nursing.

I've tandem nursed and I've nursed a child for over 4 years, but I don't have any experience with intentional weaning or this kind of limit-setting on nursing. My limits have always been gentle distraction, offering a beverage and/or a snack before nursing, saying "not now" just because I didn't feel like nursing at that moment, or ending a nursing session "because it doesn't feel good right now." Nursing isn't a "discipline" issue; it's a "respecting my body limits" kind of issue.

It sounds like the "just 10 sips" isn't working. If you're not willing to enforce it, then you need to find a different way to limit the nursing sessions. *Or, if you think this IS working, except for your DH butting in, then I'd tell DH simply, plainly, and firmly to butt out of the nursing relationship. Tell him it's different from other kinds of discipline and you've got it under control.*

Bolding this because I totally agree with this. Nursing is very special and touchy with mother/child bonding. There were times with our two girls when I really didn't WANT to nurse and they were wanting to, and made some comment like "I am SO tired I just don't feel like doing this" and DH said "Well, then don't. Tell her no."







: I was upset because I was I was the one with the breasts and nursing so it was MY decision but I understand where he was coming from. You need to set limits so your children know when you say no, then it is no, but gently and like Ruthla said maybe with some distractions or find something other than 10 sips. Good luck mama.


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## *LoveBugMama* (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rhiandmoi* 
I am going to come from a different perspective on this. Once you set a limit, if you allow what you've said you don't allow you are sending a mixed message. You are basically telling your boys that no does not mean no and that they can use someone else's body after that person has set limits if they are insistent enough. If you don't want to have limits on nursing that is fine, but if you set a limit it should be a limit that you are willing to enforce. I think the relationship is important to maintain, and that you are probably not ready for set limits on nursing, or maybe not on bedtime nursing.

Yeah, I have to agree with this.









I think it`s amazing that you have been nursing twins for so long!! Wonderful! And if you want to continue, more power to you.







But, I feel that setting a limit and then not following thru, is not sending a good example. And especially because this involves your body, I would say. Everyone needs to learn to respect other peoples bodily limits/boundaries.









But, I am also in agreement with the posters saying that it`s ok to change your mind. I do that often. But not every night, not for the same thing every time.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissSJ* 
OP, it is great that you have nursed your twins for so long!

It is strange to be one of the few that doesn't agree with the bulk of the other responders to a thread here at MDC. I don't see anything wrong with telling a child no or setting a boundary and then changing your mind. Now that I've typed that I guess it depends on the scenario. I can't speak to your particular situation (the PPs have brought up good points) since I have not gone through the weaning/limited BF process yet but we've had plenty of times where I have said no to something then realized that the request wasn't a big deal and I should have said yes. Instead of continuing with my no just because I said no in the first place I explain to my children that I have thought about xyz, changed my mind and yes they can _____. IMO there is nothing wrong with showing children that you can reflect on something and change your mind. I feel it shows them you are flexible, that sometimes we make rash decisions and that it is ok to change your mind about things. Having said that, I do not change my mind about things just because my children are whining, crying or asking me the same thing over and over and over. I have not found that changing my mind about "nos" leads to that type of behavior in my children when my no does not change to a yes.

Once again, I want to say I am just speaking about changing your mind about saying no in general not about the OPs BF scenario she mentioned.

OP, hope you and your dh can find a way to resolve this.









SJ









:


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prothyraia* 







:

I am a _very_ big proponent of sticking by your word, especially when you set a limit. But nursing *is* different. The closest comparison I can come up with is: "It's time for Mommy to get up now."
"But Mommy, I want more hug!"

I am also not going to attempt to use force to unlatch an upset toddler with a full set of teeth who is attached to my breast.









: right back at you.

Comparing nursing to a hug is an excellent way to explain it!


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## seemfrog (Mar 30, 2006)

WOW!
I really appreciate all the responses!
One clarification I might make, when I call it "10 sips", this was a while back when I came up with this, and at that time I would count sips, and sometimes do, when I really want to only do 10 sips, but they have adopted the phrase to mean "nurse" so they don't have a total understanding of when the session will finish, so yes, perhaps its time to use other words... and when I use 10 sips, make sure its a time when I will count them. I generally let them nurse awhile, let them know "one more minute" a little while longer, then will say "ok, nite nite nursies" and one will pop off immediately and the other has been clinging at times.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AbbieB* 
I think nursing is such a unique thing. If you have not nursed your own child for 3 years you might not fully understand the complexity of the relationship. I'm not trying to be negative and put down Mommas that don't nurse or whose children weaned at a younger age here. I'm just saying that unless you have experienced it you just might not get it.

Your child wanting more "sips" is not the same as wanting more candy, or not wanting to take a bath. There is a very real emotional component that needs to be respected.

I am currently nursing my 5 year old (down to just 1 time in the morning...I'm so ready to stop!) and her little brother. My DD has a very strong attachment to nursing. She really needs the closeness, the one on one time, the connection, and I believe the hormones (or what ever it is) that the brain produces when young children nurse. I can meet most of her needs other ways but sometimes she needs the whole package. She will try all kinds of tricks to get more nursing time. But I can tell the difference between her just pushing for more and times when she really NEEDS to nurse. So when she has had a horribly rough day and just can't cope I will let her nurse. When she is sick, we nurse.

Giving in to your child's need to nurse (or even your child's need to be parented to sleep in other ways) does not make you a bad parent. It makes you a good parent that is responding to your child's very real needs.

It's also sooooo hard and lonely to be in a position where you would like to stop nursing (or limit it) but your child is not quite there and the people around you that were supportive suddenly start being critical. I can't imagine how I would feel if my partner was the one being critical. (My mother's wise cracks are hard enough to take!)

Hugs to you momma. Follow your heart on this and do what is best for you and your kids. You will never regret it. Tell your husband to but out. Nursing is between you and your kids. (Then come vent in the extended nursing forum!)

I also wanted to say that the idea that once you start weaning and limit setting you can't go backward is BS! Children often grow in a few steps forward then a step back kind of way.

thanks for this response, this is what I was trying to get at as far as nursing being different than "demanding more candy"

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dynamicdoula* 
Maybe I don't understand (and I grant, that's possibly the case







) but I don't understand why expressing a boundary about your body and then sticking to it is authoritarian. I think that's what I hear your husband saying. You're negotiating with your child after you've set a boundary, which just blurs the lines and makes the boundary almost impossible to enforce. I can imagine doing what you describe but I can't imagine it's helpful to either one of you- *he gets to nurse under pressure and with a feeling of guilt, and you are nursing when you don't want to be.*
What happens if you stick to your word? Is it possible that is what your husband is asking? Clue me in if I have this totally wrong...

bolding the above - what I feel is going on is that he isn't comfortable with me trying to set limits, I think that's why he clings... its still very important to him... just not sure how to deal with this, to go for 3 years, I would hate to end our nursing relationship on a bad note, just because I'm ready... its a hard thing to work through.
As far as what I meant with the authoritarian bit, DH will get fed up if things aren't going as planned and get into a "just do it" mode (cuz I said so) and at times of frustration he'll wonder why we keep making all this effort all day long which at the end of a long day seems like "giving in" whereas I feel we are trying to help them in moments of strong emotions... and giving them the words. I often feel like we try to set too many limits (still learning!), so when they seem to feel really strongly about something, when I change my mind from "no, you can't take that with you" I'll say "hm... you really feel strongly about wanting to take that with you today, will you be able to leave it in the car when we get out to go to the store?"

Quote:


Originally Posted by *One_Girl* 
It may be that you are very tense and not acting like yourself because you are ready to be done nursing and your dh reaction came from wanting you to have less tension in your life. When I was really ready for my dd to wean I was very tense and my relationship with dd and everyone else went downhill a lot but I wasn't able to see that it had until she weaned. My family was very unsupportive of me continuing to nurse but it was because they saw that it was no longer a good thing for me and dd. I think you should talk to your dh about this and see if that is part of what is going on.

I do think this is part of it, that I have been in a state of exhaustion (but still able to function...) for over 3 years now, and he saw my expression when ds2 got upset when I said "OK, all done, time for dada to read a story with you" and latched on and held tight. I know that he was trying to help me... but I suddenly felt like he just didn't get it (after all these years), that what would he have me do - and to those of you that would have followed through, would you PRY your fully teethed child off you and run away? I was trying to gently do it, gave a few more seconds, whispered to him that I would still be in the house, I just needed to do some work and tonight dada will lie down with you for a while, etc and he soon popped off.

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Originally Posted by *MissSJ* 
OP, it is great that you have nursed your twins for so long!

It is strange to be one of the few that doesn't agree with the bulk of the other responders to a thread here at MDC. I don't see anything wrong with telling a child no or setting a boundary and then changing your mind. Now that I've typed that I guess it depends on the scenario. I can't speak to your particular situation (the PPs have brought up good points) since I have not gone through the weaning/limited BF process yet but we've had plenty of times where I have said no to something then realized that the request wasn't a big deal and I should have said yes. Instead of continuing with my no just because I said no in the first place I explain to my children that I have thought about xyz, changed my mind and yes they can _____. IMO there is nothing wrong with showing children that you can reflect on something and change your mind. I feel it shows them you are flexible, that sometimes we make rash decisions and that it is ok to change your mind about things. Having said that, I do not change my mind about things just because my children are whining, crying or asking me the same thing over and over and over. I have not found that changing my mind about "nos" leads to that type of behavior in my children when my no does not change to a yes.

Once again, I want to say I am just speaking about changing your mind about saying no in general not about the OPs BF scenario she mentioned.

OP, hope you and your dh can find a way to resolve this.









SJ

yes, this was my point from earlier, we are still learning about not being the kind of parents that have too many expectations of how things should go, when they should go... I often find myself thinking "oh... why am I saying no/stop?"

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Originally Posted by *crittersmum* 
First off, I second the pp with saying congratulations on nursing your babies for this long!

I'm struggling with this right now, too. Sometimes I say "No" too quickly, I think, and so when DD really starts to turn the screws I'm thinking to myself that perhaps I was too hasty and end up shrugging and saying, "OK." To be honest, just seeing that written in black and white I can tell that I've got some work to do: first on following through and second on trying to say "Yes" more than "No."

And as an aside:

I grew up in a household exactly like that, with Mom "saving" us from Dad. There was probably a lot of other complicating factors but...it didn't turn out well. All of us kids still wait for someone to "save" us from difficult situations to one extent or another.







That said, it sounds like you're a very conscientious parent, with great instincts, so just go with 'em! If you think it would serve your family better to run interference, I say do it!

yes, same as above

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Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
Bolding this because I totally agree with this. Nursing is very special and touchy with mother/child bonding. There were times with our two girls when I really didn't WANT to nurse and they were wanting to, and made some comment like "I am SO tired I just don't feel like doing this" and DH said "Well, then don't. Tell her no."







: I was upset because I was I was the one with the breasts and nursing so it was MY decision but I understand where he was coming from. You need to set limits so your children know when you say no, then it is no, but gently and like Ruthla said maybe with some distractions or find something other than 10 sips. Good luck mama.

this exactly!

Thanks again for all the great posts, they mean a lot and have given me lots more to think about, and want to discuss with DH.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I think that if you set a limit and don't enforce it, it's confusing for them. Additionally, it could make it harder for them to know when you really mean something and when you don't.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

I want my children to expect and believe that THEIR boundaries will be honored. Therefore, I model that by expecting and believing that MY boundaries will be honored. The large majority of the time I work very hard to set boundaries that I will stick with. No, or any other form of it, means exactly that. There are rare occasions that I change my mind, but it is rare. I agree that your DH is likely trying to help you respect your own limits. Hugely important too is picking the limits to set, aka pick your battles.

That being said. If YOU don't care how much longer he takes to nurse, then say so. If you do want him to be done after so many sips, or minutes, or whatever, than say so and stick with it. There isn't a 'right' length of time or anything, it's what works for you. But decide what you want and follow through. Kids really do appreciate knowing what to expect and count on from their parents.

HTH
BellevueMama


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

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Originally Posted by *mamaUK* 









I totally agree with this, I am a firm believer in 'say what you mean, mean what you say' and if you are not prepared to follow through on the limits you have set don't set them in the first place. Otherwise it could spread to other areas of your life and they will think 'mommy doesn't mean what she say, so if i keep on pushing for what i want, i will get it'. If parents set boundaries which they don't keep to themselves i think it can be very confusing for children and make them feel more insecure. I agree with poster quoted that you inside your heart probably aren't ready to limit nursing at bedtime quite yet. I bet they love this special time with you









I tend to agree as well (though I have been known to reconsider







) Honestly Its also frustrating when my DH sets a boundry with DD and then totally backs down when she fusses it in turn makes my job twce as hard because if it worked with daddy.... KWIM?

Deanna


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

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Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
Bolding this because I totally agree with this. Nursing is very special and touchy with mother/child bonding. There were times with our two girls when I really didn't WANT to nurse and they were wanting to, and made some comment like "I am SO tired I just don't feel like doing this" and DH said "Well, then don't. Tell her no."







: I was upset because I was I was the one with the breasts and nursing so it was MY decision but I understand where he was coming from. You need to set limits so your children know when you say no, then it is no, but gently and like Ruthla said maybe with some distractions or find something other than 10 sips. Good luck mama.

I see this discussion happening also because of the differences (in general!) that men and woman think and communicate. As I said, this is in general, but when a woman talks about a problem, she is often just looking for emotional support. Men, when they hear about a problem, their first instinct is to solve it. They typically don't offer emotional support, but rather a cut and dry logical solution. Me and DH typify these roles.

So what I see in your case is that you're talking about how nursing feels and you want support in continuing. You want to be able to talk about what you like and don't like. Obviously you already _know_ the "solution". . i.e you could end nursing right there. Your DH hears your comments, though, and his first thought is to problem solve. . so he chimes in with the obvious "Well, then don't." So I'd explain ahead of time that you're merely looking for support, NOT a solution and if one should occur to him, keep his mouth shut until you specifically ask for one.

I could be waaay off base here, so I apologize if I am.


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## want2bmoms (Feb 8, 2008)

I think it's great that you are still nursing. You have created a special bond with your Lo's.

I agree with almost everyone here...

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I want my children to expect and believe that THEIR boundaries will be honored. Therefore, I model that by expecting and believing that MY boundaries will be honored.
1) No means NO and Stop means STOP. Especially with your body (like it's been said, they aren't wanting more candy or too many grapes - this is personal boundries whch eventually means safety







). Right now the two little one's I have don't understand this concept. They were never shown any boundries or respect for themselves or others. Now they don't know what they can tell someone not to touch them, or that they need to STOP when someone says don't touch me. (which is why I haven't told the child who is climbing on me despite my extream desire not to be hung on to stop- I'm not ready to enforce "get OFF"







)
2) Stick to your limits, but it's ok to change your mind, ahead of time, not under duress. If you say, "ten sips, no more" then at ten, you need to pop them off and switch to another desirable activity. if you decide (maybe at sip#5, that you feel like nursing a little longer, then it's find to say, "you know, I've decided I want to let you nurse a little longer, I'll tell you when it's time to stop, but you can have more than ten". No just continuing until you force them off.
3) If you aren't willing to stop at a certain number, maybe you you tell them they can nurse until mommy says all done, then when you are reaching your limit, you say, ok, three more sips. and after three, you stop them. This way you can feel in control of Your Body, but you can still meet the needs of your LOs.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

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He will suddenly get fed up and say "why are we letting them do whatever they want? it just seems like we keep giving in!" I of course think we are giving them choices, letting them tell us when they have strong emotions about wanting to do something, etc, this extends to all areas of life.
I've sometimes said things like this when I perceive my partner as having set a limit and then totally failed to enforce it. Often, I missed something: I wasn't around for the whole interaction between father and child, and I didn't see the part when they renegotiated the limit for a good reason and reached a mutually satisfactory new agreement.







Then I am all riled up for no good reason, my partner is mad at me for interfering, and my child's perception that Daddy does things wrong and Mama fixes them is reinforced.







Although I'm not sure this is what happened in your situation, it does sound like your husband came in in the middle and tried to "defend" your limit as he understood it. This is something to avoid.

I'd look for a time to discuss privately with your husband two separate issues:
1. Negotiating limits with the kids. In which types of situations does each of you want the other parent to support you in holding the limit you've set, and in which do you want the other parent to stand back and let you and the kid work it out?
2. Your evolving feelings on nursing, what limits you feel are really important, what you're willing to negotiate with the boys, and to what extent you want him to be involved.


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## luv2bamommy2 (Sep 12, 2007)

I thoroughly agree with rhiandmoi; a good book that you and your DH should both read is "Have A New Kid by Friday" by Dr. Kevin Leman and then practice what it says. My mom has already raised 3 boys and me and she says, "I wish I had had such a book when you kids were little!"

Because I am witnessing the positive behavior of my children I support my mom [she cares for my children when I'm at work] 1000% fully. The advice in this book works.

Mom got the book from amazon.com for $10 or $11 plus s&h; but it can be gotten from www.a1books.com for $9.00 + s&h. I don't know how much the s&h is.

Get the book. It's great!


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