# pro-lifers do not read this



## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

dont read this is you are anti-choice and don't say i did'nt warn you.

i want to start a supportive thread for women who have had a 2nd trimester abortion for what ever reason. i think our numbers are bigger than we realize and coming together i believe we can help each other. please feel free to pm me.


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## XM (Apr 16, 2002)

I think this is an excellent idea. I know it's hard for some of the moms of this forum to read of pregnancies being terminated, but I cannot begin to imagine the immense grief that one would have over a decision like that and I think there should be a safe place for women to express that sadness.

XM


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## Clarity (Nov 19, 2001)

I would suggest it should be password protected, but visible. You PM a mod for admittance. Maybe discuss it with Cynthia? I would be willing to help monitor a group like that.


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

i don't mean a whole catagory just for that subject it could be under "birth loss". it is after all a loss.Although an elected loss for whatever reason. this thread has been up for 24 hours and i've already gotten 2 responses, but the women were n't saying "yes, that happened to me " i know the women are out there and i cant be the only one who is on this board who has experienced it .


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## Clarity (Nov 19, 2001)

It has come up before...I think it should be subcategory under loss, but like I said, I think few people would participate unless it's private. I don't know if this board software can password protect an individual thread...that might be sufficient. In another group I've seen that was not private, moderation had to be very vigilant. Hateful things were posted there frequently...many by people going to that board just to do so.

edited for my typical sticky-fingered spelling


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## PookieLove (Feb 2, 2003)

I am pro-life and it upsets me you guys would even need to protect a thread here. I can't imagine how anyone could give you a hard time after what you've gone through.


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## Clarity (Nov 19, 2001)

Most people have nothing but compassion...the real issue is from people who just "cruise" the boards. (Wave hi to our child-free buddies!) Ok, most of them are pretty nice too. But you know, the occasional hateful kook pops up. Or just people who are very emotional in a negative way. One woman here who was having a child expected to die shortly after birth thought people who considered termination, or who had done so in siilar situations "murderers". But she was having her own difficult time with the loss of her own child. And she was entitled to her opinion.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Even prolifers have little to say regarding those who have to make such choices. It is a totally seperate issue IMO. I think it would be possible with the software but I am not certain it would be necessary.

Ms Mom and I are both on pretty frequently, during the crash, we both made it our personal project to get a loss board at mothering. So we take this board very seriously and it is very special to both of us. Any problems would be dealt with pretty swiftly but most Mothering members have been very sympathetic and understanding when such issues have come up in the past.

This may be a problem with other boards but I think it would be ok here..if it is more of an issue of comfort level in discussing this issue then I think pming Cynthia with this idea of a private area would be good and if you wanted Ms Mom or myself to do so we probably could too.


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## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

just a big ole







for jannan. I'm very sorry for what you had to go through. I hope there will be a way for this site to assure you the support you deserve in a way that eliminates the risk of offensive contributions.


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

i agree with both of you. i'm sure a kook or two would pop up and say something hurtfull but you know , it is not anything that i haven't already said to myself . maybe because it just happened. i do feel a profound loss and have a feeling of overwhelming sadness. and something very special is gone that i can't bring back. and if someone responds by calling me a murderer , then they do that. i'm sure it won't be they first time.


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## joesmom (Nov 19, 2001)

& you told me not to read, but i did...

i truly truly hope if you had a space here for women who've had 2nd trimester abortions, that no one would invade it to pass judgment or say cruel things.

hope you are doing well.


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## XM (Apr 16, 2002)

I agree that most pro-lifers here would have enough compassion to not say hurtful things to a mother who had experienced this.... my concern is 1) people trolling -and- 2) mothers who have had a recent loss that was not their choice.

I am not worried about the pro-lifers here so much (as we've had some threads on the topic recently in TAO and everyone played nice), and I don't think that an MDC mom would rip into another mom for such a painful choice regardless of her personal beleifs... but trolls? I am quite concerned at what an outsider would post about this topic. It would take some pretty vigilant monitoring to ensure that did'nt happen. Clarity has offered to help and I would be willing to as well, perhaps a couple extra sets of eyes could keep it a safe place to share.

I know that after one has had a pregnancy loss, sometimes one's compassion is clouded by their own hurt, and some ladies may find the idea of a late abortion upsetting when looking at it through the pain of their own experience. I know when my loss was fresh the idea of terminating a pregnancy was painful to me, however I never could have said anything hurtful to another mama who had made that difficult decision. But I could see how it could happen.

I am less concerned about any MDC ladies saying something inappropriate then a troll who is just looking to cause a ruckus, whatever their personal beleifs... yes some people really DO have no lives, and would come here and be hurtful for fun.

I can't imagine how difficult a choice it would be to terminate a pregnancy for a medical reason and I hope that there is a way to offer a forum for this where mamas can feel safe sharing their heartache...

XM


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## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

abimommy and XM summed up a lot of my thoughts.

We have been able to discuss abortion in this forum with only ONE very small situation in the history of this form. That situation was acted on quickly by abimommy and myself and we were able to diffuse emotions and redirect the topic without further issues.

Peggy O'Mara has given us the go-ahead to discuss this issue here in a supportive and informational way. Not in a confrontational and opinionated one.

As XM stated, some members who have had a recent or otherwise un-elected loss may feel deeply. However, I think they would stay away from the subject rather than begin debate.

I wish we could do it as a sub-category. We've been discussing this for Pregnancy after Loss as well. Please know these issues are discussed among the moderators and administrators. However, with the server problums and other pending issues, things move a bit slowly. I wish it were as easy as a quick swipe on the keyboard to create a new forum.

In the meantime, lease feel free to share here. I must admit, I've never walked in your shoes and would threrefore not presume to know how you feel. You can be assured that I place no judgement on you and welcome you to share your experience and reach out to other members for support.

As for responses. It may take a few days to gain attention by other members who have walked in your shoes. I do know of a few, and will privately contacat them and let them know of this thread. This way, they can choose weather or not to post here depending on their own comfort level.

If anyone has questions or concerns, PLEASE, feel free to contact myself, abimommy or Cynthia Mosher by PM or email. We'd be more that willing work through things with you.

I would like to ask that we keep any debate to PM or email and not on the main boards. This way we can work together and protect all members feelings.

Gently,

Jacque


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## anythingelse (Nov 26, 2001)

janaan- why don't you try having the people that pmd you start a small egroup that is moderated and invitation only so not advertised, also keep no archives KWIM?? That way it would be a forum that would maybe keep out the unwanted -yet kind of still be there as needed for each other as support. You could just bump your thread here every once in a while to let folks know the group is there. Just a thought.


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## XM (Apr 16, 2002)

But it would be nice if it were accessable enough for women to find it who otherwise would'nt... I think this loss belongs here just as much as other miscarriage, stillbirth, or perinatal loss.

XM


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

I looked too









I'm pro-life but I try not to pass judgment on others. I think that those who have gone through such a thing need support as much as anyone else and in some cases more. I won't lie....I'd probably cruise that board but only if I felt I could offer support never to criticize! I'd like t say everyone here has tht much decency but I know I can't.

Anyway, just wanted to say I think its a good idea!


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

These women need our support.

I will give it wholeheartedly, without judgement and with a pure heart.


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

this is how it all happened and it all happened to me. criticize if you want to. On nov 29 i found out i was pregnant. my husband wasn't exactly as thrilled as i was. we didn't discuss termination at all but i knew he was not totally happy . 2 days later he left for a month to visit his mother in another country. in the mean time i'm throwing up buckets, and taking care of our 4 yr old and soon to be 13 year old. It was hard but i did it. he returns jan 2nd and anounces that he is leaving me . he doesn't want to be married and he has fallen out of love with me.so after absorbing that and crying for weeks on end, i ask myself what am i going to do with a baby bymyself? i can't sleep or eat. i lose weight and am a mess. I ask him does he plan on supporting the children and he says no. and adding that he wont give me money for a babysitter for the baby. i have names picked out and buy afew clothes. i don't know how abortion came up. i was scared to death of being a single mother with 3 kids. i only earn 1,300.00 and that is befor taxes. i was in a complete state of panic. i felt paralyzed. So, i decided to take matters into my own hands. i made an appointment at planned parenthood but got scared when they said they would dialate me with cytotec. then i would have to come back the next day and have the procedure. i completely panicked and walked out hysterical. I felt all this pressure on me to do something. i tried to kick out my husband(he hasn't left yet) but to police couldn't do anything because we are legally married and i'm not moving out. he is the one who is not acting like a spouse. I call my daughters pediatrician for help. i forget the planned parenthood. she tells me about a hospital that does 2nd tri-mester abortions and that my insurance will cover it, but i have to solicit that coverage. so i call my insurance and i explain what i need and she says" why did you wait so lonG"? i am so imtimidated by her question. anyways , i get the appointment on a thursday. i go there. my father ( yes, my father) gives me a ride and is totally suportive. he takes care of the kids. i talk to the hospital people. they are nice. they dialate me and i went back friday for the procedure. when i walked out of there i felt completely empty and very alone, i felt like i had lost something. i don't care what the hospital says. it was a baby in me. not a fetus a baby. and my baby is dead at my hands. and i can't get him back. i know it was a boy. i hope they baby forgives me and i know he watches me at night. the whole room gets cold and i know he is watching me. i cry when i'm not at work and wonder and think about the baby. if you have read this long, thank you. i'll never get back what i lost. looking at my maternity clothes makes me cry.


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

I am so very, very sorry.


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

jannan,
i am so very sorry.
my heart is breaking for you.
i remember a while back, when i think you psoted how nauseated and sick you were, and that your husband had left for a month.

how alone you must have felt, and feel right now.
please, please know that we are with you, supporting you, lifting you up. feel my hug.

gently, Lisa


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## angeldmt (Feb 6, 2003)

Jannan, I am so very sorry for what you have been through. Dh and I term'd our preg for med reasons, but regardless of how a pregnancy ends I know the loss can be devastating whether it was your choice or not. I, too, look at my maternity clothes and cry. I have put everything away and can't even look at it. I hope you one day can reach some peace with your decision and I know your baby forgives you. (((hugs))). You are not alone.


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

i wish i could say it gets better but i don't feel any better about it. i drive by the hospital on my way to work everyday and think " they have my baby" i cry about it all the time. i can't stop. My husband has been surprizingly supportive. he is still here. i feel tricked into doing what i did. somedays i feel so sad and like today i was staring at dd in her school yard and i said "thank God i had her at a time when i could". i feel like i secured her financial future. i guess that is the up side if there is an up side.


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## XM (Apr 16, 2002)

That is so heartbreaking. I am so sorry. I cannot imagine how much you must hurt. I wish you peace as you move through this.

I do beleive that a miscarried baby's soul can come back to the mother to try again another pregnancy. But you know what I also like to beleive (and you all can take this at what it's worth) is that a baby whose pregnancy is terminated is liberated to go to some woman who is desperately wanting a baby in her life. I cannot imagine that the baby would get anything less then another opportunity, and I can only know that your baby cannot help but forgive you.

I also think it says a lot about your respect for this life that it was such an agonizing decision and that it causes you such pain, this was not a choice made lightly... my heart goes out to you.

My heart goes out to all of you.

XM


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## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

jannan, did you name your baby? I think you may find some peace in naming the baby and having a ceremony to commemorate a life that you loved dearly.

When you mentioned passing the hospital and thinking that they have your baby it broke my heart. You're babies spirit is within you and nobody can take that from you. You're greif is real and it will take time to move through it. Please take care of yourself. I do feel deeply for you.

Gently,

Jacque


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## karenpl (Dec 18, 2001)

{{{{ Jannan }}}}

What a heartbreaking story! So sorry for what you had to go through. Sending healing vibes in your direction!

Karen


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

I named him Ely Noam. my due date was july 26. i hope he does go to a woman who can have him and love him. I've come to realize that i'm married to a man that doesn't want more children. I feel that my journey of nurturing is not over. there is more waiting for me.. i even saw him on the ultrsound, because i had prenatal app. befor all this happened. he was really cute.


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## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

jannan, hugs to you and loving thoughts to little Ely Noam. Remember, no matter where he goes, a part of him will remain deep within you.

Right now that part hurts, but one day, you'll find the right place for him and find comfort in the fact that you got to know him if only for a short time.

This experience will and has forever changed you. If feel all the babies who touch our lives do.

I would suggest to you that you wright a letter to Ely Noam. Tell him how you felt about him and how your heart is aching. Say good bye to him. This kind of thing is painful, but it does bring on some healing greif work. You may also want to find something special to remember him. I use butterflies and fairy's to remember my miscarried babies and Ballet slippers to remember my stillborn daughter. I have a bracelet with these symbols on them and it brings me great comfort. When we have a family picture I wear the bracelet and make sure it's showing.

These are just a few suggestions I have. Though you have to do what makes you comfortable and what feels right to you.

Gentle thoughs,

Jacque


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## sunmountain (Nov 19, 2001)

I found this thread in a really roundabout way, and totally unintentionally. I cannot begin to imagine how much pain you must be feeling. I am so sorry for your loss and for the situation that forced you into this decision.

I truly believe your boy loves you and understands. I will light a candle for you today, I cannot take away your pain, but I can send you strength and peace.

And this may not be appropriate, so I apologize for that, but you really need to go to counseling with or without that husband of yours. He is very manipulative and this will/may already be harmful to the two living children. I am very concerned about your marriage and life with this man.


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## Yasodra (Feb 14, 2003)

Hello Jannan, I want to send my best for you. I hope you are finding some peace and are healing up.
The night I read your post I was up, not able to sleep, thinking about the baby I lost last month. Thank you for writing and opening it up for mothers who've had abortions. It is so hard to find support after having an abortion yet this is one time we need it most. God bless....


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## crayon (Aug 24, 2002)

I have been a pro-lifer all my life. Last December I learned that my sister was pregnant. She told me she was having an abortion and here I was 7 months pregnant! In my gut I new it was the best choice. It was hard for me to go against my beliefs but then I realized that my beliefs are for myself, not for her. I knew she had reasons that were valid and protected my nephew who is 4, and also truly protected this baby for all the pain we have seen my nephew go though. It was not an easy choice for her, and there is not a day that goes by that she is not feeling upset for doing it, even if she knows it was the right thing. I see the need to have a board that talks about this. I wish I had someone to talk to as well; it was hard for me to know what to say with my pregnancy going so well and her in total turmoil. I think an open board would be a good start, perhaps if the pro-lifers got out of hand you could put it as a password only board. I think it is important to note that a pregnancy doesn’t only affect the pregnant woman. I was concerned, worried, scared and protective of my sister. I wish I had someplace to turn.


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## 1jooj (Apr 8, 2002)

Posting to add my support. No one knows another heart--the pain or the love in it, and no one can judge another for her reasons behind her decisions.

I hope peace finds you soon.


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## Joyce in the mts. (Jan 12, 2003)

Jannan...

I can only fall short trying to say something of comfort to you.

I have had my own heartbreaking losses and gut-wrenching decisions.

I hope you feel supported by all the open and honest hearts that have posted to this thread.

Loving thoughts come...Joyce in the mts.


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## KatherineinCA (Apr 4, 2002)

Oh, Jannan--

I am certain that your baby's spirit feels only love and compassion for you. My heart goes out to you.

"Ended Beginnings" is a beautiful book that discusses all sorts of childbearing losses, abortion included. It might help you sort out your feelings during this heartbreaking time.

Love to you,
Katherine


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

Crayon said it really well about how we who love our sister (blood-wise or metaphorically) feel such pain for her.

I want to share something here, and I feel I risk attracting the wrong sort of post in reply; but I am going to risk it.

I used to volunteer as an 'escort' at a planned parenthood office. That means we volunteers would stand in front of the anti-choice demonstrators and, if a patient to the clinic wanted our help, ecsort her past the demonstrators. It was exhausting but I felt it was necessary. I had stood on the street once and watched this gauntlet of people shouting horrible things at women and men of all ages entering the clinic and thought that if I volunteered, I could give someone a little love at an incredibly difficult time in their lives. Bear it in mind, that people entering the clinic were not only coming for abortions: Also, pregnancy tests, STD treatments, prenatal health checkup (PP doesn't deliver babies, but they do do pre-natal health, at least here) and just plain old birth control. Much of this is for better or worse, a lot of stress on the emotions. It is difficult, too, to be wanting a pregnancy and going there to find out if you were preg. only to have to pass a gauntlet of people assuming something quite the opposite.

I "specialized" in staying really calm (some didn't, it wasn't easy...once the police who were assigned to the clinic asked me if I had been in the military "because you can just stand there so still and straight and take that abuse") AND talking to people on the other side of the 'line'. I don't like judging people by their appearances and it is all too easy to in a situation like that. Unfortunately, many of those I spoke with were really strange and definately unloving. I only met two there who were loving...and they were really loving and never said anything hurtful to anyone coming in. One worked really hard to understand a woman's situation and try and help her. She would give out her home phone number. I respected her so much and I think we built up a mutual respect. I am a firm believer in it being each woman's decision. Having a child is a huge step, and so is not having a child. It is also frighteningly personal and public at the same time. One time this particular woman and I ended up working together. A man came up to me and asked for my help with his daughter. I went to the car and found that the mother and father had dragged their daughter to the clinic to have an abortion. She wanted the baby. After first explaining that I help people who WANT to enter do so with some support...and that getting me no where with a progressively angrier and angrier father...I went over to this woman on the "other side of the line" and said "I need your help and I know you have a lot of resources for a girl who might not have her family behind her. Come help."

She was the only person there, though, who I would have felt safe doing this with. All except one other would say the most horrible abusive things, totally reducing the woman to her womb and even that being turned into a factory. We are all more than the sum of our parts and we are more than our bodies.

This is kind of scrambled, but I wanted to say this as a way of saying that love helps and in the end, love and its workings is all that will help.

Jannan, we all love you.


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

Jannan - I can only express my love and support for you. I hope that you are doing well and that you are feeling suported for taking such a huge risk by sharing that story.









Sohj - I also worked as an escort. I quit after the pope came to Denver and I worked that. I have never heard so many hateful things come out of ao many people ins such ashort time. And all because the pope was visiting. I even got yelled at in different languages - 400,000 people came to Denver. It is so hard to stay calm and ignore the comments. Major commendations on assisting that girl. Forced abortion is as wrong as forced childbearing in my opinion.








to all here. What an amazing group of supportive women!


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

this thread without crying. i read my post and tears roll down my face. I'm working more hours and trying to spend as much time as i can with my daughter . she was a big part of the desicion. she askes about the baby and i tell her that he is in heaven..Also i feel as if i have taken something from her ..I never mentioned that i am catholic and i never confessed to a priest and don't plan to. tomorro is ash wednesday. i truly hope God forgives me. But more importantly i love Ely noam with all my heart and want to see him. I've considered suicide so i can go see him and know him. But my daughter needs me . these feelings are not clear cut. they are very complicated. i am taking anti-depressants and i think they are helping as i am able to function now somewhat...


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

I truly hope God forgives me
Oh, Jannan...He will, he does to all that asks. God knows your heart, the one that is broken now. Please know this. know that we are here for you, even if its in cyberspace. taking your own life is never the answer, as your precious child here on earth needs you. you will see your unborn one day, in "God's time".

Quote:

i love Ely noam with all my heart
he know this and has your love in him.

can you feel the hug i am giving you, squeezing hard? thats me!


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## crayon (Aug 24, 2002)

Is there a support group in your area? You may want to call PP and see. My sister told me that she sees pro-life bill boards and she just weeps. I think you are right about your daughter needing you, we all need our mamas. See if you can get in a group. I know my sister had this friend that told eveyone and she was so ashamed already it made it so much harder on her. Take care of yourself. Keep coming here for support, it is no ones place to judge.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

Jannan, I just wanted let you know I am sorry for what you went thru and what you are going thru now. Be kind to yourself!


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

jannan, I am so sorry you are going through this. I am pming you...


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## crayon (Aug 24, 2002)

The greatest thing about human life is that it does not have to be lived in order to survive. We all have sprit, soul, and energy. Our body is just a shell, but you can share your little Ely's sprit, soul and his energy with how you live your life. You are not a bad person, mother or woman. You very well could have saved his soul from heartache and he now is able to give you the sprit and energy you need to move past this time in your life and come to peace with honoring his sprit. Please try to look at this situation not as a baby that did not live, but as a pure soul that survived. You will always have him with you, just like no matter where your little girl goes she will always be a part of you.
Angela


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

Please try to look at this situation not as a baby that did not live, but as a pure soul that survived.
Crayon, thats beautiful.
I understand you were directing it toward Janaan....but as a woman who has miscarried twice, you made me feel better. Thank you.


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## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

Angela, you're words have touched me deeply. We feel very similarly on this.

I'm so amazed at all the caring women here and the support that's been given.

Gentleness to all,

Jacque


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## Sandra Dee (Aug 5, 2002)

As a Catholic, I think that I can understand where you are coming from. But, if you are truly a practicing Catholic, you should go talk to a priest and unburden your soul and mind. Perhaps at another parish where you are not known? Or, call a parish priest at another Church and see if he would be willing to do a confession over the phone. I think it would be cathartic for you to go through the confession process and be forgiven through the priest.

I hope that didn't come out the wrong way - I meant it to be loving and supportive, and just making a suggestion since you mentioned you were Catholic, too.

I'll continue to pray for you and sweet baby Ely.

With love.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Firstly, I am so sorry for what you have gone through! I feel for you and hope that you come to a place of acceptance and peace about this. I am glad you remember that your other kids need you with them (both my parents passed away when my siblings and I were kids and there is nothing worse - to a child - than having a beloved parent die).

I have been sitting here trying to think of a nice way to say this - you deserve a loving and supportive spouse. I am so sorry that you don't have one. It must be a challenge to be such a forgiving person - I am quite sure I could not be if I had been in your situation. I would try to surround myself with friends and family who do love me and support me. I am sorry if I sound harsh towards your dh - from the information here, it seems warranted though... I hope I have not offended you - and am so glad you are getting lots of support from the women on this thread. I just think there are really two issues - gaining peace with the decision you were forced to make and your relationship with your dh. The poster who suggested counseling (joint or individual) was something I would agree with too. I don't know how you work through something so complex and unfair without help from someone who could be unbiased.

Kirsten


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## GoodWillHunter (Mar 14, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by XM_
*But it would be nice if it were accessable enough for women to find it who otherwise would'nt... I think this loss belongs here just as much as other miscarriage, stillbirth, or perinatal loss.
*
To have or not to have an abortion is an agonizing decision. Some ppl feel pressured into the decision, others are too young to realize what they are doing. Speaking from experience, you pay for it in all kinds of ways later. I still mourn my choices made when I was young and thought it wouldn't matter.
Still others are making the best choice for their unborn child and themselves. I have heard many ppl say they have chosen the 2nd trimester abortion because their baby would die soon before or after birth. I can't imagine their pain, as, for most of these ppl, this baby was a wanted child.
At any rate, an abortion should be considered a loss. A woman feels that loss for the rest of her life, even if she doesn't admit it. It hurts and it will always hurt.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Jannan

I just wanted to say that you are right in knowing that your daughter needs you, but she is not the only one, I think this thread has comforted many people, you sharing your story has helped many hearts. There are lots of people who have read this, I am sure, who are not in a place where they feel comfortable sharing their stories, and I know you would like to hear their stories, but just know that they are out there, being helped by you. I hope people who are experiencing the same will pm you if they are not comfortable posting about it.

I think you have so much to offer to your daughter as well as other women on here, and God only knows how many others. Your baby is watching you, he is loving you, and someday I believe your aching arms will hold him, the time will come, but now, there are people here on Earth who need you.

Since you are a Catholic I'd like to say a couple of other things- Maybe it would help to picture Mary (blessed Vrigin Mary) holding your boy, and hugging you. I understand your apprehension about confessing the abortion, I have been apprehensive about confessing many things in my time, major things. there is a group started by the Church called Project Rachel, it's a support group for Catholic women who have had abortions, maybe you can find a group near you.

God loves, God forgives, God understands what people don't.
(((HUGS)))
Patty


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

jenn.schmoo: you sound very strong, as well as very loving to your sister; but, I beg to differ on part of your point of view of abortion vs. pregnancy loss. I agree that abortion is a choice. I defend that through Planned Parenthood and through my political, "feminist" life. However, in my time volunteering at Planned Parenthood and volunteering at a women's help line through our local NOW chapter when I was a teenager (21 years ago), it became clear to me that although perhaps many make choices, some make a choice that they would rather not make: some women (note I say "some", not most or all or even many...but this is simply my experience) make the decision to have an abortion because they feel that they do not have a choice about how they can live their lives. And, yes, perhaps it is possible to say that once you make a choice you cannot have regrets, but I do not think it is possible to force yourself to have no regrets if you felt painted into a corner about the choice you made in the first place.

For the OP, it was a loss of a pregnancy. She wanted the pregnancy and had embraced the pregnancy and, from the postings here, it appeared the abortion was the result of emotional extortion. I, for one, felt angry and hurt for her and thought that this was, indeed, a loss.

I do not think this in any way belittles your sisters' tragedies. Your sister has my sympathies for her losses.


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## BeeandOwlsMum (Jul 11, 2002)

thank you sohj - just the words I was looking for. everyone experiences everything differently and no one can devalue another's emotions and how they feel or react to something. And every choice we make brings about the possibility of regret....what seems like the right choice one day may not three years from now.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

You know...I might be really really out of it. But I think jenn.schmoo is the FIRST person that I have heard from that in no way regrets her decision. I know several women and women who have talked here that have had abortions and everyone, minus this instance, has had some form of regret.

I guess I just don't understand, and I probably never will, how this is a decision that can be made with no regrets or doubt.

Then in the eyes of jenn.schmoo who has no regrets it isn't a birth loss. But to those who have some regret or doubt in their decision do. With this in mind I can understand how she gest aggrivated..not that I agree with her at all. But if you have no regrets you have no sympathy.

Hope tht mde sense.....


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by its_our_family_
*You know...I might be really really out of it. But I think jenn.schmoo is the FIRST person that I have heard from that in no way regrets her decision.*
www.imnotsorry.net is an good website. Taken as a whole, it's an interesting insight into the lives of american women. We sure go through a lot.

I'm sorry for your loss, Jannan.


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

I've known lots and lots of people who said they did not regret their decisions. The ones I know well, I also know that they had compassion for those who did have regrets over the choice made.


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## frogertgrl (Nov 28, 2002)

Apricot, what an awesome site! Thank you!

I never felt pain or regret over terminations but I thought I was the only one after hearing constantly in the American culture that if I didn't feel regret and sorrow, I was in denial or had bought the 'pack of lies spewed by the feminists'. So, I bought some books on post traumatic stress after abortion and the descriptions were so broad and vague (everything from eating problems to sleeping too little/too much to feeling sad and not knowing why) that I diagnosed myself as having regret and sorrow after the abortion. Again, I felt none of those feelings naturally and had PMS which made me weepy and feeling sad and didn't know why. But I thought that the books must know more than I did.

I finally had the courage to stand up to all that bunk which doesn't apply to everyone and has the broadest diagnostic criteria I've seen since the diagnosis of Hysteria in women, and admit that I didn't reget my choice for a second and it has not negatively impacted my bond to DH, bond to DS (and current babe in utero) or my emotions at all. Or my belief in the sacredness of life.

My upbringing taught me that women who abort are cold, hardened feminazis who value things over people and worship Self and are unable to sacrifice and truly love. That is a lot of baggage for me to jettison off in my growth, let me say that much!

I wholeheartedly support choice. And I also support the feelings of women who terminate, no matter what her feelings are. Limiting concepts such as 'women who terminate always feel sorrow even if they don't know it' help no one. I stayed silent and faked it under pressure from the Christian culture to feel one way after abortion. That is a huge disservice to women!


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

Your post really offended me. Did you read carefully the original post? Did you understand my circumstances? Probably not . I did not whine in my original post. My dr. acctually concluded that I had a nervous breakdown. My original idea was to open it up so other women could post about their abortion. I don't feel like my loss was my choice . I feel like i was dictated upon. I'm sorry you don't miss your aborted babies. I miss ely with all my heart. But at the time it was what i needed to do. that is all i'll say.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

Jannan

Don't forget how many of us are here to support you.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

I stand corrected. Incidently...I do not feel that those that abort are "cold, hardened feminazis who value things over people and worship Self and are unable to sacrifice and truly love. " (quote of frogertgrl).

I just don't understand it. I've not really lost my stand on the issue but decided that my concern is for the women that have this to deal with in the first place. I understand decision and that sort of thing but am by no means pro-choice. Each individual does what they do and life goes on....or doesn't

Jannan--I'm am very sorry for what has gone on. I hope you are finding some peace....


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Welcome to Mothering jenn.schmoo. Perhaps you would like to introduce yourself in the Pleased to meet you forum *BEFORE* attacking a member in a loss forum.

The grief forums are not to be used for debate type discussions.


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## frogertgrl (Nov 28, 2002)

Jannan, my support is here for you always. Hope you are taking care of you.


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