# Is It Just Me, Or Does Anyone Else ...?



## newlife (Jun 12, 2004)

Okay is it just me or does anyone else find something wrong with breastfeeding after one year? I mean, continuing to give a child breast milk after a year is fine, but actually breast feeding. I have read stories on this board and countless others, about toddlers still being breastfeed. Not only do I find something wrong with a toddler being breast feed at 2,3, or 4 but I find something very wrong with a parent not having a problem with it. It is just my opinion, but I really think that children can develop a complex from this. I have see children countless times, in malls, stores, and restaurants grabbing at their mothers breast or just putting their mouths on their breast at 3 or 4 years old, and that is just ridiculous. I do plan on beast feeding, and mostly because of the bond that it creates, but after a year I think the mother child bond is well established and their is really no reason for actual breastfeeding to continue. I mean is it really okay to brestfeed a toddler. I mean no offence to anyone but I find this totally unappropriated. I am sure I will hear a lot about this, but it is just my opinion.


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

Worldwide, the avg. weaning age is around four and children continue to benefit from breastmilk and nursing. Read around on this board for more information about the benefits of nursing a toddler! You might change your mind.


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## Simply Nurtured (Nov 6, 2004)

Please read and educate yourself as completely as you can about this subject.

Some links for you below. There are so many advantages to child-led weaning and extended nursing. The information here can explain it to you better.

Once you have given birth and you begin to breastfeed this amazing, incredible person, you will understand the "whys". It is very beautiful, and so much better for the child's health, and I personally found, much less behavior problems than other people's children, who bottlefed or weaned early.

I wish you all the best.

http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBextended.html

http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBJulAug03p140.html

http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/St...3/toddler.html

http://www.nurturing.ca/nursetoddlers.htm

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/ebf-links.html

http://naturalchild.com/guest/norma_jane_bumgarner.html

http://www.kellymom.com/newman/bf_toddler_01-03.html

Also, there are some good books out there.

http://www.natural-parenting.com/post_books.html

to get you started.


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## dreamlette (Mar 20, 2004)

I go to La Leche League meetings, and started to do so when I was about half-way through my pregnancy. The first time I went I saw several mothers breastfeeding their older children, and it struck me as odd because it's not something that's seen very commonly. Breasts are highly sexualized in our society, but their primary purpose is to provide nourishment for our young. My son just turned 1 and he still nurses many many times a day. I now believe in child-led weaning; the natural age for this is usually between the ages of 2 and 4. Breastfeeding is not just about the milk; it can also be an important way to stay connected with out children as they gradually become more independent. It's a wonderful way to soothe a child when s/he is hurt. It provides security and closeness. 'Extended' breastfeeding may not be for every mother, but it is natural. Perhaps the article 'Breastfeed a Toddler: Why on Earth?' by Dr. Jack Newman would be helpful for you:

http://breastfeed.com/resources/arti...ck/toddler.htm

- Laura


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

When I went to my first LLL meeting almost six years ago I was shocked and agast at some of the antics. Not only were there toddlers nursing, there were a few PRESCHOOL aged children. I reassured myself that I would do the "minimum" and nurse til two (at which point my child would naturally be down to nursing only once or twice a day) and then my child, as all children naturally should, would wean within the month.

Four years later, as I nursed my 4 year old dd and my 1.5 year old DS I reflected how funny it is while some people measure "readiness" to be nursing with first teeth, walking, talking or first birthday I was nursing a child who could competently read chapter books. When DD weaned at 50 months, my only regret was the artificial barriers I had erected to her natural nursing pattern while pg with DS.

Biologically, there is nothing sexual about the breast. No more than ears & hips (which both can function erotically, but that is not there *biolgical* function). Rather, the function of the mammary glands in all mammals is to provide milk for their young. While there is nothing wrong with adding to their funcitonality, to imply that the new functions must replace the old is just wrong.

For additional information on the natural age of weaning in humans, I encourage you to read articles by Kathryn Dettwyler (anthropologist) that suggest the biological age for weaning is between 2.5-7. While the AAP recommends a minimum of one year of bfeeding and then as long as mutually desired, other organizations (including Family Doctors in the US & the WHO) recommend a minimum of two years. The immune system is not fully formed until closer to six, suggesting that nursing is benificial until well into childhood.

And this is not even considering the many emotional benifits to both mother and child that comes with sustained nursing.

Good luck to you with your birth and the wonderful time following.

Kay


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## kavamamakava (Aug 25, 2004)

Yup. It's just you


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

One thing that I have learned since becoming a parent (dd is three) is that almost all the 'opinions' that I held about childrearing, dramatically changed once I actually was a parent.

Breastfeeding your child is a very personal relationship. It is a relationship between the Mom and the child. For external people beyond this relationship to have an opinion of that specific relationship is really counterproductive to all involved.

General blanket statements that breastfeeding toddlers is wrong are very naive. Sure everyonce in a while the relationship between the mother and breastfeeding toddler is less than healthy but this is rare. I don't think its appropriate for you to make a statement that includes all breastfeeding relationships, healthy or not.

Its like deciding you dislike a food without even trying it.

I think you should remember this thread and when you dc is one, and probably well away from weaning, you should reread your initial post.

For the record, I never imagined myself breastfeeding a toddler. I institually ended up here. Taking it day to day. Taking cues from my dd and myself.

Good luck to you in all that is to come!


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## Alison (Feb 11, 2004)

Before I got pregnant and had DS, I used to feel this way too. It seemed completely weird that anyone would even want to nurse a toddler. Even when I was pregnant, I still felt it was strange, and I was planning to nurse until a year only. I have to say though that the way I felt about it changed completely after I had DS and actually started nursing him. Wait until you get started and just see how you feel about it then. If you don't change your mind, that's fine, but if you do, that's even better!

Alison


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Yes, if you'd asked me 4 years ago, I'd have agreed with you.

I recall telling the pediatrician that I'd nurse to one year, then that would be it. She said to just wait and see how I felt after the first year.

I nursed dd#1 to three years old, when she self-weaned. I tandem nursed my first two, then dd#2 self-weaned at two years old when I was very pregnant. I'm now into my fourth year of nursing and have forgotten those 'rules' that I had in mind for each child.

Just wait and see. You may be surprised at how your opinions will alter when you become a breastfeeding mother. Your baby will still seem like your baby at his/her first birthday.


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## bwylde (Feb 19, 2004)

I too used to think like that, then I had my son  . 31 months later and I can't imagine not breastfeeding as long as he wants to. You've been given a lot of great links but ultimately until you do it, you won't be able to know for sure how you will feel about it







.


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## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

You probably will here a lot about it because Mothering supports extended nursing, and you may have even seen that we have an entire forum dedicated to it.

Before I understood it I did think there was something wrong with it. Then I read about it and meet people and have come to understand it is healthy and should be normal.
Sometimes we aren't exposed to things and tend to think they are wrong because we haven't had that experience.
What you may come to understand is that a two year old is still very much a baby.


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

It really does change once you nurse your own child. I *used* to think "I'm going to nurse for a year." I never really thought about what would happen at a year (did I assume DS would pop off one day and say, "Well, that's it for me. Thanks so much for a great year Mama!!" and shake my hand??







) and I never realized what a baby they still *are* at a year...until I had DS. I used to see moms nursing toddlers and think, "ooo-kay, that one's a little old" but now I realize that it's not a weird or odd feeling to nurse a child beyond a year and into toddlerhood at all. Don't forget, it's not like you are one day nursing a newborn and suddenly someone switches him for a little kid, they get older and bigger so gradually and you do just get so used to nursing, it becomes the norm and you're just *used* to it. Now I see my 2 year old nephew (who was mother-led weaned at a year on the nose) and think (when I see him battling constant colds, etc., having attachment issues with his mom after a new baby has shown up, and being really difficult to soothe/comfort) "Oh man, that kid could really REALLY have benefited from extended nursing." Your perceptions do change.

I'm in a more mainstream group of mamas, all with the same age babies who have been together since the early months of pg and essentially ALL of the breastfeeders are still going strong (and three of us are preggo again!) Maybe one or two had planned on nursing beyond a year - and now all of us still do. There's no magical transformation that takes place one day, your milk is still as nutritious and the health and attachment benefits are still there.

I'm almost 24 wks pg with DC #2, and still nursing DS (well, he's hit or miss lately - some times he opts out) and I would be so sad to have him completely self-wean now. It's been a wonderful and special part of our relationship - and one I wish on any mother!!









PS I forgot a key part - it's the biggest gun in my arsenal!







Meaning - hands down, there is no more efficient or better way to calm a freaked out toddler, settle down a wired one at bedtime, or easily get one who's woken up with excruciating teething pain and is screaming at 3am back to sleep. When we travel and I need to get DS settled into a completely new place to sleep, it never fails to soothe and comfort him. The thought of NOT having nursing in my "bag of tricks" anymore is a scary, scary idea!!! So, not only are the benefits clear to the child, they're pretty cool for the mom too


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

What could possibly be wrong about this?









What are YOU projecting onto something wholely innocent, loving, and natural, not to mention biologically normal?

Quote:

I do plan on beast feeding, and mostly because of the bond that it creates, but after a year I think the mother child bond is well established and their is really no reason for actual breastfeeding to continue.
You plan to quit hugging at a year too for that reason? They're human children, not ducklings that imprint on one being and that's it for the nurture. Bonding is an ongoing process that never stops. Even when they're teenagers, there's bonding going on, through different means, but it's still bonding.


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## Carli (Jan 5, 2003)

This is kind of funny because your thoughts were exactly my thoughts before I had children. My mom's cousin nursed her 2 year old in front of me one day (I think I was in my early teens) and I was so grossed out that a toddler that old, a toddler that could TALK <gasp> was actually being breastfed. Even when pregnant there was no way my children were going to breastfeed over 1 year. That was my limit. Anything over that was just plain gross.

I am now nursing my 3+ year old and let me tell you, there is nothing "gross" about it. Even at the ripe old age of 3 years old, my baby is still my baby. She certainly doesn't look like the older kids I've seen nursing way back in my teens.


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

I agree with everyone else. you may change your mind after you baby is born. My goal was a year. I fuly intended to stop after that afterall they are only on formula a year. I began to eductae myself and learn just how superior BM is to formula. It is a substitute that's why it is only intended for a year. Yana turned one and a year came too soon. My milk dried up when she was 16 months because I was pregnant with morissa. I am still very sad that we stopped so soon. Morissa is 21 months and my goal now is until two. If I can get the gymanstcts and nipple tweaking to a minimum.


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## MelKnee (Dec 5, 2001)

What is so different about a child who is 365 days old and one that is 366 days old? Nothing magical happens at 1 yr. They are still very much babies at that age. 2, 3, 4+ year olds benefit from the nutrition and comfort of nursing as much as a 1 yo. The "wrongness" is in the eye of the beholder and not in the nurturing/feeding act itself.


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## KellyK (Jul 16, 2004)

I may not have felt as strongly, but I did have some reservations regarding breastfeeding after a year. I just thought that once a baby can walk up to you and ask for milk it becomes "gross". I am now still bf'ing DS at 7 months and lurking here a lot trying to get an idea of what it would be like if we are still nursing at 1yr, 2yrs, 3 yrs etc. Sometimes I feel angry that my cultural conditioning predisposes me to early weaning. I am struggling with something that should be easy. I have already decided to make 2yrs at least my goal, but that decision was made logically, ie. I want DS to stay healthy, I want him to remain easy to calm and sooth (best weapon in my arsenal too!). I wish it was a choice I could make with my heart: I love BF'ing my baby. (nice and simple, but untrue) The reality is that I love Bf'ing him BUT... I feel uncomfortable with the idea of BF'ing him when he is able to walk and talk, I really do not want to deal with other peoples snarky comments and rude looks, and the closer we get to a year and not weaning, the more apprehensive I get.

The good thing is the more I come here and just look around, the more comfortable with it I feel! Best of luck to you!


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

I remember feeling that a one year old was SO old when I held my newborn. I told everyone I'd get to a year nursing and "then decide". At 10 months I started freaking out a little because I knew I didn't want to stop and pressure was mounting from relatives so I started doing research on extended nursing and found MDC and found friends IRL that I can be around that make me feel a lot better - I have more internal fortitude about my decision to continue. Society has taught us that toddler and beyond nursing is "wrong" - it's only tolerable for little babies, but beyond we all have been told it suddenly becomes sexual and perverse and inappropriate. But that is so silly! We're biologically designed to need breastmilk for several years in early childhood - why would we be designed to do something 'wrong'? I've had to do a lot of examination of our Victorian American parenting ideas and question them. It sickens me now to think of how wierd and screwed up we've become on so many parenting issues - all in the name of having "seen and not heard" children.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
Okay is it just me or does anyone else find something wrong with breastfeeding after one year?

Unfortunately many people in society share your views. Society has sexualized breasts, so that many people have forgotten that all mammals are supposed to nurse their young. Anthropoligcal studies have shown the natural weaning age for humans to be between 2.5 and 7 years of age. Many health organizations, including the widely respected World Health Organization, encourage breastfeeding for a MINIMUM of TWO YEARS!

So no, there is nothing wrong with breastfeeding past 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... years as long as both mother and child are comfortable with the relationship. I for one hope my child remembers his nursing experience so that he will have a "healthy view" of breastfeeding and not a "sick/sexualized" view.

Take the time to educate yourself about breastfeeding and you might surprise yourself with the way you feel about it after your baby is born!


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

I would just say "ditto" and leave it at that... but I'm not one to keep quiet on something as important to me and my children (both of them) as extended breastfeeding







Honestly, I can totally relate to not only what the op has said, but all the replies to it as well.

Yup, before my first was born, I'd have agreed with what you, the OP, said 100%.

I'll let that sentence stand alone because I want to emphasize the point. After Jenny was born, she was physically unable to nurse. I cannot describe to anyone who has not experienced the same thing just how devastating that was for me. This was coming directly on the heels of a very traumatic hospital intervention avalanche turned cesarean, and I not only had some pretty bad PPD going on, but PTSD as well. I was on a mission to make breastfeeding work, and I did eventually make it work. It was definitely the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. Now, that perhaps colors everything I feel and believe about breastfeeding, so I am putting that out there first.
I saw for myself, first-hand, the huge difference in my child when she was nursing, and when she was being bottle-fed formula. Not just a difference in her physical body (and that alone should be convincing enough) but a huge difference in her emotional well-being! Breastfeeding, even though she was unable to get enough milk from my breasts, made that much of a difference, was that important to my baby. I saw just how much she really needed to nurse, whether she was getting any milk from me or not.

ok, so my baby just woke up and I'll have to make this short...
That you are here at MDC shows at least a passing interest in attachment parenting. AP is all about doing what's best for you and your baby. Once your baby is here you will most likely have to decide for yourself just what is best for that precious little one. And, if you really pay attention to your baby's needs, you will most likely find that nursing beyond the first year (or two or three) is indeed what your child really needs. It's not just about the milk. Nursing is about a very complex multitude of emotional and psychological issues. You'll see....


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

I thought it was a little weird before I had my baby. I did a lot of reading on the subect (Kathryn Dettweiler, "Our Babies Ourselves", etc.) and realized that it was completely normal to nurse past a year, and in fact most of the world does that. But, I still felt that while there was nothing wrong with it, I would never do it.

Well, my DS turned one in Dec 3 and I just can't imagine not nursing now. He still needs that quiet time and it is such a wonderful bonding experience! There are also NUMEROUS benefits, both to your baby AND you, to keep nursing. Your risk for things such as rheumatoid arthritis, breast cancer, etc. drop more the longer you nurse, and your baby's jaw/teeth benefit from extended nursing, as well as helping with brain development and immune system.

By posting, you are casting a net, looking for answers - if your mind was completely made up, you wouldn't have posted. So, you must be trying to understand this topic. PLEASE, educate yourself on this and remember, when you nurse your baby and realize how natural and wonderful it is, you may well change your mind.


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

As a teen, I thought bf was horrible because it ruins your breasts









When I got older, I thought that nursing a toddler was gross. Sick. Peverse.









It's amazing how much your mind can change when you have a child.


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## jessemoon (May 31, 2004)

I would just like to complement the mamas on this thread for their thoughtful, compassionate and honest answers. For the most part, the answers have been kindhearted and gentle. The OP may not have realized it, but this is a potentially inflamatory topic here at MDC. I was so afraid that this would turn into a flame-fest. Well done MDC mamas!


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## newlife (Jun 12, 2004)

I do understand what you all are daying in a way. And when I do start breastfeeding I may feel different, but I really doubt it. I don't think ya'll are seeing things the way I am, and I guess that is because you have been breastfeeding and I haven't. First I would like to correct something that I said in my op, I think that when you come upon the first year, the initial mother infant bond has been well established if you were breastfeeding. And as someone said bond with your child does continue as they grow into toddlerhood, childhood, the teenage years, and adulthood. But my point is that as your child grows into these different stages, the type of bonding as well as the type of bond is and should be different. You all believe in child-lead weaning, so let me ask you this if your child is 8 or 9 years old, and has not and/or is not ready to wean yet, what would you do? Or what if your child has weaned, but at the age of 13 or 14, they decide that they want to go back to breast milk, by being breastfeed? Do ya'll see my point now? I mean what is the cut off point? How old is too old in your opinion? I ask that because I am more that sure most, and hopefully all of you would be very disturbed if you saw a 10 year old being breastfeed. I don't agree with the opinions of some that the breast is not sexual, and is specifically for breastfeeding. Although that is their primary role, they are also very sexual. And in my opinion they are something that helps children come about, simply because they are something that attracts the opposite sex, making the sexy silhouette that a woman has. So, basically when a child becomes a toddler, teenager, ect. bonding should continue but not in the same way in my opinion. And as I said before I find nothing wrong with a toddler having breast milk because I think that is best, but still being breastfeed is a problem in my mind, and I think that it will manifest itself later in life.


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

I don't see anything at all wrong with nursing past a year. In fact, I think it makes perfect sense to nurse until age 2. (Though to be perfectly honest, I'm kind of skeeved out by people still nursing at age 3, or older. I just don't think it's necessary.)


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

Excuse my bluntness, but why are you here on the extended nursing board? If you find the idea of bf a toddler to be a sexual and gross act, why post here? What sexual damage will nursing past 365 days create, out of curiosity? On what are you basing this assesment? What research?

As for a nursing 13 yo, It might be easier to take you seriously if you kept your posts in the realm of reality.

Wonder if my local bridge has lost their troll?

This is directed to newlife, just to be clear


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

oh nevermind, I just realized newlife was a troll.


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boston*
I don't see anything at all wrong with nursing past a year. In fact, I think it makes perfect sense to nurse until age 2. (Though to be perfectly honest, I'm kind of skeeved out by people still nursing at age 3, or older. I just don't think it's necessary.)

I have to say, once I have gotten to know some nursing momma and toddler pairs well, it stopped seeming weird to me. Mom was very well adjusted, normal, etc. So was toddler.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
So, basically when a child becomes a toddler, teenager, ect. bonding should continue but not in the same way in my opinion. And as I said before I find nothing wrong with a toddler having breast milk because I think that is best, but still being breastfeed is a problem in my mind, and I think that it will manifest itself later in life.

So, the mom should pump her breasts? What if she can't? Poor baby, I guess; he or she just misses out on breastmilk into her 2nd year...

And, when does a baby become a toddler become a child? Who makes these arbitrary guidelines?

I really have no problem with you asking questions (even ones that could potentially hurt other mamas) but at least LISTEN to what people are telling you. Read back through the links. Understand that you don't have enough life wisdom yet to make blanket statements like you are.

Also, I was breastfed into my 3rd year. So was my brother. I feel pretty good about myself, and we're both healthy and happy.


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## Alison (Feb 11, 2004)

Don't know if newlife is a troll or not, but she's made some pretty blanket statements about all of us here. She even admits that we're probably not seeing things her way because we've been breastfeeding and we haven't. I think maybe we should all just leave this thread alone now, and let her come back after she's started breastfeeding. It's funny how your opinions on things change once your own child is nursing at your breast. I NEVER thought I'd be a co-sleeping mother of a breastfeeding toddler, but here I am! And, having done it myself, I KNOW that there's nothing wrong with it--I have one happy, well adjusted, self confident, outgoing and all around wonderful toddler! If he has mental problems later in life, it certainly won't be from being breastfed!

Alison


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
I do understand what you all are daying in a way. And when I do start breastfeeding I may feel different, but I really doubt it. I don't think ya'll are seeing things the way I am, and I guess that is because you have been breastfeeding and I haven't. First I would like to correct something that I said in my op, I think that when you come upon the first year, the initial mother infant bond has been well established if you were breastfeeding. And as someone said bond with your child does continue as they grow into toddlerhood, childhood, the teenage years, and adulthood. But my point is that as your child grows into these different stages, the type of bonding as well as the type of bond is and should be different. You all believe in child-lead weaning, so let me ask you this if your child is 8 or 9 years old, and has not and/or is not ready to wean yet, what would you do? Or what if your child has weaned, but at the age of 13 or 14, they decide that they want to go back to breast milk, by being breastfeed? Do ya'll see my point now? I mean what is the cut off point? How old is too old in your opinion? I ask that because I am more that sure most, and hopefully all of you would be very disturbed if you saw a 10 year old being breastfeed. I don't agree with the opinions of some that the breast is not sexual, and is specifically for breastfeeding. Although that is their primary role, they are also very sexual. And in my opinion they are something that helps children come about, simply because they are something that attracts the opposite sex, making the sexy silhouette that a woman has. So, basically when a child becomes a toddler, teenager, ect. bonding should continue but not in the same way in my opinion. And as I said before I find nothing wrong with a toddler having breast milk because I think that is best, but still being breastfeed is a problem in my mind, and I think that it will manifest itself later in life.









:














:








you either just don't get it, or you are baiting us. Either way, the previous replies have already sufficiently answered your questions. I refuse to get angry at your statements, and am going to give you the benefit of a doubt and not believe that you are trying to anger us. Come back once you have a clue.
:LOL


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## pajara2 (Oct 5, 2004)

I have to say that I, too, get uncomfortable when I see older children breastfeeding. I don't judge the parents, we all make our choices, and for us they are the right choices.

I've read what's been said, and I did breastfeed my first (until 6 mos) and will breastfeed my next (probably also until 6 mos).

My question, I guess, in a way, is this:

I understand that the biological function of the breast is to provide nourishment. BUT I also understand very clearly that the societal (for the most part, although sadly) function of the breast is predominantly sexual. So....how would my son feel when he becomes a teen, and has memories of being 5, 6, even 7 and latched on to my breast? I think if I had actual memories of breastfeeding from my mom at that age I would be TOTALLY grossed out.

As earlier questioned, this isn't based on a report, or study, or article; just based on my opinion and what I would imagine my feelings to be. I think it's admirable that we as mothers make so many decisions based on what is best for our children, if you feel breastfeeding until self weening is best, then I admire you for the sacrifice/gift/decision you have made, whether I understand it or not.


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## Simply Nurtured (Nov 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boston*
oh nevermind, I just realized newlife was a troll.


I know I am old...









Tell me what that means. Is this person a poser?

Here I am thinking, I will help educate this young new mama, and it could be not even a mama, just some guy maybe, looking to start trouble?

I noticed a few other weird threads by newlife too.

Oh, well.


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pajara2*
I have to say that I, too, get uncomfortable when I see older children breastfeeding. I don't judge the parents, we all make our choices, and for us they are the right choices.

I've read what's been said, and I did breastfeed my first (until 6 mos) and will breastfeed my next (probably also until 6 mos).

My question, I guess, in a way, is this:

I understand that the biological function of the breast is to provide nourishment. BUT I also understand very clearly that the societal (for the most part, although sadly) function of the breast is predominantly sexual. So....how would my son feel when he becomes a teen, and has memories of being 5, 6, even 7 and latched on to my breast? I think if I had actual memories of breastfeeding from my mom at that age I would be TOTALLY grossed out.

As earlier questioned, this isn't based on a report, or study, or article; just based on my opinion and what I would imagine my feelings to be. I think it's admirable that we as mothers make so many decisions based on what is best for our children, if you feel breastfeeding until self weening is best, then I admire you for the sacrifice/gift/decision you have made, whether I understand it or not.










I do know men and women who remember being nursed. They remember it with gratitude, and remember the bond with mommy.

Out of curiousity, why would you stop at 6 mos?


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Simply Nurtured*
I know I am old...









Tell me what that means. Is this person a poser?

Here I am thinking, I will help educate this young new mama, and it could be not even a mama, just some guy maybe, looking to start trouble?

I noticed a few other weird threads by newlife too.

Oh, well.









Troll is internet slang for a poser. As in the troll under the bridge in fairy tales.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
I do understand what you all are daying in a way. And when I do start breastfeeding I may feel different, but I really doubt it. I don't think ya'll are seeing things the way I am, and I guess that is because you have been breastfeeding and I haven't.

First you say that we feel differently because we're nursing and you have never done that. Then, you say that it is unlikely you'll change your mind. I'm confused. Are you just posting in the EN board to try to find people who are likeminded? If so you surely have the wrong board. Try Babycenter at www.babycenter.com, or sheknows at talk.sheknows.com. If you want to find other people who are ignorant of the fact that extended nursing is natural, beneficial, desirable and that there's nothing wrong with it, you'll find people a'plenty on those boards.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
Do ya'll see my point now? I mean what is the cut off point? How old is too old in your opinion? I ask that because I am more that sure most, and hopefully all of you would be very disturbed if you saw a 10 year old being breastfeed.

I'm afraid I don't see your point. What does a breastfeeding 10 year old have to do with a breastfeeding 3 year old?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
I don't agree with the opinions of some that the breast is not sexual, and is specifically for breastfeeding. Although that is their primary role, they are also very sexual. And in my opinion they are something that helps children come about, simply because they are something that attracts the opposite sex, making the sexy silhouette that a woman has.

This is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of facts. There is not inherently sexual about breasts; our culture simply happens to see them as sexual objects. Visit the Pygmies in Africa, explain your concerns about extended nursing to them, and then look for bewildered looks on all faces since they haven't been subjected to the same strange cultural brainwashing.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
So, basically when a child becomes a toddler, teenager, ect. bonding should continue but not in the same way in my opinion. And as I said before I find nothing wrong with a toddler having breast milk because I think that is best...

I'm a little confused here because now you're saying that there's nothing wrong with a toddler having breastmilk. The whole point of your thread was that you thought it was weird, gross and inappropriate for a toddler to breastfeed. There aren't many people here who are nursing their 10-year-olds, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
... but still being breastfeed is a problem in my mind, and I think that it will manifest itself later in life.

You're making an extremely bold statement here. Do you have any evidence or data to support your claim? When have you decided that breastfeeding stops being nurturing and becomes a problem that will manifest itself?

If you have ANY facts or evidence to support your claim that breastfeeding beyond one year is inappropriate, please share them. I'll share the alternate opinions with you :

AAFP recommends nursing for 2 years min.
AAP recommends nursing beyond one year "as long as mutuallly desirable".
WHO recommends nursing for 2 years min.
Anthropologist Kathryn Dettwyler has studied this topic and believes the natural age of weaning is between ages 2 and 7.


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## Meiri (Aug 31, 2002)

Quote:

You all believe in child-lead weaning, so let me ask you this if your child is 8 or 9 years old, and has not and/or is not ready to wean yet, what would you do?
Judging by all the developmentally normal children I've met at these ages, not an issue. I let DS lead the way and he was done at 5. Biologically normal age for stopping is between 2 and 7.

Quote:

Or what if your child has weaned, but at the age of 13 or 14, they decide that they want to go back to breast milk, by being breastfeed?
Setting up strawmen is not legitimate discussion. This would not happen with a developmentally normal teenager. I can't speak for moms of children with developmental issues, but I trust that they would make the best decision for themselves and their family. Looking for the vanishly rare exceptions does not strengthen your premise.

Quote:

Do ya'll see my point now?
No, because you don't have one. Setting up vanishingly rare strawmen to question parenting practices that are within the biological norms does not a legitimate point make.

Quote:

I mean what is the cut off point? How old is too old in your opinion?
Too old is when the child no longer wants to. Too old is when mom has nursed for a good length of time-year or two minimum IMO, but any beats none--and has gotten to a point of being tired and fed up with nursing. The thing I think you don't grasp is that nursing a child who's 2 or 3 or 4 or even 5 is absolutely nothing like nursing a newborn. It may not even be daily depending on where the child is in his/her process of growing out of needing it.


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## wendy1221 (Feb 9, 2004)

I think newlife is a troll. That or she's mainstream and doesn't belong on mothering. She also posted on the circ board that intact men smell bad and can't get it up, etc.


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

Good point Kristi. Brests as sexual objects are a result of culture, not biology.

Does anyone remember who the anthropologists was that did the study about south american indiginous cultures and their view on the Western obsession with breasts? Those men thought it was sick and infantile that Western men viewed breasts sexually. In their culture, breasts are for babies and small children. Men are into butts.









So, no, breasts as sexual objects are based in cultural conditioning.


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendy1221*
I think newlife is a troll. That or she's mainstream and doesn't belong on mothering. She also posted on the circ board that intact men smell bad and can't get it up, etc.

NOt that I've noticed.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pajara2*
I understand that the biological function of the breast is to provide nourishment. BUT I also understand very clearly that the societal (for the most part, although sadly) function of the breast is predominantly sexual. So....how would my son feel when he becomes a teen, and has memories of being 5, 6, even 7 and latched on to my breast? I think if I had actual memories of breastfeeding from my mom at that age I would be TOTALLY grossed out.

That helps explain why you only nursed for 6 months. Maybe you have some issues surrounding breasts and have been unable to reconcile their non-sexual functions.

There actually have been threads about this very topic, and some people have reports that they or they husbands DO remember being nursed, and that it was a wonderful memory of feeling loved and safe.

Why would it be any different? Is there something dirty about nursing a toddler?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pajara2*
As earlier questioned, this isn't based on a report, or study, or article; just based on my opinion and what I would imagine my feelings to be. I think it's admirable that we as mothers make so many decisions based on what is best for our children, if you feel breastfeeding until self weening is best, then I admire you for the sacrifice/gift/decision you have made, whether I understand it or not.









I appreciate you clarifying that. Your feeling on this subject is not uncommon at all, so I find it admirable that you're even asking the question and trying to understand. I think what you have to keep in mind is that historically, babies have ALWAYS been nursed as toddlers - you can even find references in the bible to it. Breastfeeding fell out of favor post-WWII because we didn't understand the benefits, and we're still feeling the effects of that - people of that generation thought breastfeeding was gross and nasty, and they passed along that feeling to our generation.

The book "Our Babies, Ourselves" puts this subject in eloquent perspective by studying the evolution of our species and how other cultures operate. I highly recommend it, it may help you understand where us EN'ers are coming from.


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pajara2*
My question, I guess, in a way, is this:

I understand that the biological function of the breast is to provide nourishment. BUT I also understand very clearly that the societal (for the most part, although sadly) function of the breast is predominantly sexual. So....how would my son feel when he becomes a teen, and has memories of being 5, 6, even 7 and latched on to my breast? I think if I had actual memories of breastfeeding from my mom at that age I would be TOTALLY grossed out.

You were very respectful in your post. I appreciate that.

I remember nursing the same way I remember snuggling up with my parents in their soft, warm bed at night--with a little bit of an ache and a need to duplicate it for my own sweet babies.

My son still remembers nursing; I don't think he's creeped out by it, but I'll ask him if he is. I highly doubt it, though, as he is planning to ONLY marry a woman who will nurse his babies. :LOL


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyV*
Good point Kristi. Brests as sexual objects are a result of culture, not biology.

Does anyone remember who the anthropologists was that did the study about south american indiginous cultures and their view on the Western obsession with breasts? Those men thought it was sick and infantile that Western men viewed breasts sexually. In their culture, breasts are for babies and small children. Men are into butts.









So, no, breasts as sexual objects are based in cultural conditioning.

Fascinating! I'd love to read about it.


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## mcsarahb (Aug 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pajara2*
So....how would my son feel when he becomes a teen, and has memories of being 5, 6, even 7 and latched on to my breast? I think if I had actual memories of breastfeeding from my mom at that age I would be TOTALLY grossed out.

I have actual memories of breastfeeding. My mom nursed me and my brother until age 4.







I am (well, I hope I am) well-adjusted, independent and not grossed out.









Sarah


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

Ok, newlife, I am going to assume you are not a troll, and are just a young confused woman aabout to become a mom who hasn't had much experience in regards to child raising. Forgive me, please, as I will probably be repeating afew things, but since it obviously didn't sink in the first time, I don't think that should be a problem.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
I think that when you come upon the first year, the initial mother infant bond has been well established if you were breastfeeding.

But why does this mean that breastfeeding should cease at one year? My daughter was the same child with the same nutritional needs the day before she turned one as she was the day after she turned one. What makes you think this arbitrary age is when mothers should cut their babies off. One year olds are still babies, half of them can not walk, many haven't begun to say words, and a vast majority still wear diapers. Yes, the mother-infant bond has been well-estabilished, so why break it and cause unnessesary hardship for a child who can not possibly understand why mommy won't let him nurse?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
But my point is that as your child grows into these different stages, the type of bonding as well as the type of bond is and should be different.

There isn't much difference between a 10 month old and a 13 month old, like I said before. Try explaining to each of them why they can't nurse anymore, and you will more than likely get the same reaction.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
You all believe in child-lead weaning, so let me ask you this if your child is 8 or 9 years old, and has not and/or is not ready to wean yet, what would you do? Or what if your child has weaned, but at the age of 13 or 14, they decide that they want to go back to breast milk, by being breastfeed?

At the age of eight or nine years old, I could explain that I no longer felt comfortable continuing the relationship and the child could comprehend why. That doesn't work in a two year old. Plus very few kids are still nursing at that age. I have never heard of anyone nursing at the age of 14, think about it, would you have wanted to nurse whan you were 14?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
I ask that because I am more that sure most, and hopefully all of you would be very disturbed if you saw a 10 year old being breastfeed.

DIsturbed isn't the right word for it. Yes, I may be slightly taken aback at first, but that would by *my* problem, not theirs.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
simply because they are something that attracts the opposite sex, making the sexy silhouette that a woman has.

What are you saying? THat 15 month old babies have sexual fantasies about their mothers' breasts????







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
but still being breastfeed is a problem in my mind, and I think that it will manifest itself later in life.

Oh, so that is why the USA (with abyssmally low rates of breastfeeding toddlers) has such a high rate of mental illness! Seriously, where do you get your facts, Dr. Freud? The world wide average age for weaning is 4.2*years* I am having trouble seeing why a biological component of our early lives would provide "issues" when it really provides nutrition, antibodies, and bonding.

Didi you know that Michael Jordan was breastfed for three years, Michael jackson wasn't breastfed at all. Which one do you think had problems that manifested later in life?


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## raleigh_mom (Jan 11, 2004)

I've tried to read all the replies - I may have missed some. It may be a troll or not, but I've certainly enjoyed reading from so many other EBF'ers. I've seen some people list the health benefits to the children - stronger immune systems, etc. and I certainly enjoy knowing that I have a way to help my kids be healthy. One thing I haven't seen yet is the benefits for mom to EBFing. The decrease in risk for breast cancer and osteoperosis(sp?). Maybe not what people want to consider when they think we are abusing our kids, but it's still important to me. Keeping myself healthy is an important part of taking care of my kids.


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## Mama K (Jun 7, 2004)

That's a pretty silly question to ask on this forum.







If everyone here thought nursing past a year was weird, there wouldn't be an EXTENDED nursing forum... :LOL

You will probably change your mind after your baby comes. Before Katie was born, I thought I would wean after a year. Now I want to go at least two years, and CLW is preferred...


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## darlindeliasmom (Nov 19, 2001)

you know, I have no response other than to feel sorry for women who arbitrarily make this choice--they will never know the wonderful peace that a nursing mom knows when her tantruming 3-yr-old is soothed back to happiness with a nursing session...or the owies soothed away (owies that get scarier as children climb higher!).
Just yesterday, my nearly 8-yr-old banged her chin on a restaurant table. She is weaned, but our first reponse was to "assume the position", long legs and all, crawling into my lap. She knows that kids with hurts, whether emotional or physical, belong in the loving arms of their dear ones...wait, don't we all?!?

So, if this is a troll, bye bye. But to the other readers and posters, hugs and support. may you enjoy this short time with your little ones as much as I and my only dd did...it will fly by, believe me.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *raleigh_mom*
I've tried to read all the replies - I may have missed some. It may be a troll or not, but I've certainly enjoyed reading from so many other EBF'ers. I've seen some people list the health benefits to the children - stronger immune systems, etc. and I certainly enjoy knowing that I have a way to help my kids be healthy. One thing I haven't seen yet is the benefits for mom to EBFing. The decrease in risk for breast cancer and osteoperosis(sp?). Maybe not what people want to consider when they think we are abusing our kids, but it's still important to me. Keeping myself healthy is an important part of taking care of my kids.

Good point! And, the benefit is greater the longer a mom nurses. A mom's risk for getting breast cancer goes down for each year that she spends nursing. For a woman who's nursed at least 2 years of her life, her chances of getting rheumatoid arthritis go down about 50%!


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Oh how I wish I was Cynthia and had a magic wand right now.














:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boston*
Though to be perfectly honest, I'm kind of skeeved out by people still nursing at age 3, or older. I just don't think it's necessary.

Boston I hope you realize how hurtful this comment was to thousands of the mothers (and their nurslings) here. I also hope you read all of the thoughtful responses to the troll(s) because you sound uneducated on the subject as well.


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## pajara2 (Oct 5, 2004)

Thanks to all the mom's that answered respectfully and didn't blast me. I also appreciate everyone relating their memories about nursing. I will look up the book 'Our Babies, Ourselves'. There are other 'social norms' that evolved in American culture that I don't accept...so I will further research this one too.

In answer to the mom who asked why I quit nursing at 6mos...with my son it's because what little I had read said that most of the benefit was achieved by then (i.e. immune stuff) and I was younger and lazier...once he got old enough to hold a bottle, it was more time efficient to give him the bottle and keep working around the house, etc. I know not an acceptable reason, but that was the truth of it then.

The reason I probably won't extended nurse now, and y'all might help me with this, is that I will have to return to work probably at 3 mos, definitely by 6 mos. I'm still looking into expressing, etc. But with my son (mind you using some dinkey Wal-Mart brand pump) I wasn't able to express enough to make it worth putting in the bottle, I tried for a while. But this time I'm going to use the hospital pump. And if it works then I don't mind expressing and sending him/her to childcare with bottles of breastmilk and nurse when I'm with him/her. But I guess I can ask you work-outside-the-home moms...How do you manage to extended breastfeed and go to work 5 days a week???

Thanks for all the discussion on this...although I wish the OP had stated it more delicately... I'm glad for this thread 'cause it was something I was too scared to bring up myself.


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

: For once I am going to keep my mouth shut









Respectfully,
Charmarty who is on Double Booby Duty for two 4 year olds.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pajara2*
But I guess I can ask you work-outside-the-home moms...How do you manage to extended breastfeed and go to work 5 days a week???

Well, my workplace is pretty supportive, although I didn't ask if I could pump, I just do it. I still pump twice a day and my DS just turned one.

I have a Medela Pump In Style, and it has worked great. Some moms notice a bit of a supply decrease after they've been pumping for a while, and there are some herbs which help to restore supply (I take domperidone).

If your workplace will allow you to pump, I would recommend getting a good pump (some women get better results from a hospital-grade pump than a Pump In Style, and some don't - I think it will depend on whether you can just set it up and leave it there, or whether you have to take the pump home at night - for the latter, I recommend the Pump In Style). Just go from there, and don't put too much pressure on yourself.









My biggest advice regarding pumping is to make it YOU-time. Get a hands-free bra (or make one - I just cut two little slits in a sports bra and it works great!), some good books you will enjoy (or parenting magazines), and use the time to relax, unwind, and enjoy. I guarantee you will pump MUCH longer at work if you can do that.

I know it's a big investment to get a Medela Pump In Style, but believe me, they're worth it! And, you can sell it on ebay or to a friend when you're done (tell that to your SO if you are having trouble justifying the expense).

Hope this helps! I never dreamed I would be an extended nurser, but I'm SO glad I'm sticking with this. It is such a wonderful bonding time (especially now that he's older and doesn't sit still unless we're nursing), and it gets SO much easier when they're older - there's a huge difference between nursing a 6 month old and a 1 year old!









Hope this helps.


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

Um, Newlife? Toddlers and teenagers = apples and oranges...no basis for comparison. I'll go so far as to say I don't think MDC has ever had a member nursing a 10 year old....so what's your point?

Also, I think it bears repeating that the AAP recommended MINUMUM for nursing is ONE YEAR (note: not "maximum" not "limit", but MINIMUM for optimal health) Further, as a child needs to be on breastmilk or formula at least until one year, I don't understand why anyone would *choose* to stop nursing their child and give them an inferior substitute and intentional short-change them.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:

But I guess I can ask you work-outside-the-home moms...How do you manage to extended breastfeed and go to work 5 days a week???
I only work part-time, but I'd like to share that after about eight months, my milk supply was pretty well established. My daughter (who's 2 years 9 months and considers nursing to be *very* necessary indeed) sometimes nurses every hour and sometimes goes 8 hours without nursing -- and I'm never "empty" and rarely engorged. Breasts are wonderful!


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
Okay is it just me or does anyone else find something wrong with breastfeeding after one year? ...

Well, since you asked it that way....

Here, it is probably just you. On Babycenter, the majority, by faaaaar, would agree with you.

I don't go to Babycenter. I find them repulsive on this subject and perverse in their determination to continue the arbitrary sexualization of breasts.

Yours,

a nursing mother with a 2.66 year old and working a demanding full-time engineering job. No problems. And, yes, I nurse in public.

_{EDITED TO ADD: And we are going to let my little one lead the way in weaning. And, something I don't get, I've had people express amazement at me and wonder if I was going to stop when "he can ask for it"...to which I repied: "So, let me get this straight, you think that once someone gets up the communication skills to actually ask for what they want or need, I'm supposed to deny them? How does that foster a good communication relationship?"}_


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## Dmitrizmom (Nov 11, 2002)

Quote:

But I guess I can ask you work-outside-the-home moms...How do you manage to extended breastfeed and go to work 5 days a week???
I'm a full time student (I'm in class from 7:30am-4pm 5 days a week, I went back to school when dd was 7 mo). I've managed to ensure that she got bm at daycare by pumping at least 3 times a day and building a freezer stash. I haven't pumped for a while - dd is now 16.5 months. This week she is finishing up the last of my freezer stash. She still nurses alot when we are at home - especially at night (reverse cycling).

I second (third?) the recommendation of getting a good electric pump. I have both a lactina and PIS. Since you have 3 months maternity leave, you will have some time to build a stash (if you have success with pumping) for when you return to work.







If you do have some trouble with pumping, come and ask questions - I'm sure that you'll get plenty of suggestions that might help.

I'm a strong believer in that I will regret not nursing my child, but I really don't care if my house isn't completely clean.









FWIW, before I had ds, I planned on only nursing to a year. He self-weaned at a year and I was devastated. with dd, I'm definitely doing CLW, and hoping that she'll want to go past her 2nd birthday.


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pajara2*
The reason I probably won't extended nurse now, and y'all might help me with this, is that I will have to return to work probably at 3 mos, definitely by 6 mos. I'm still looking into expressing, etc. But with my son (mind you using some dinkey Wal-Mart brand pump) I wasn't able to express enough to make it worth putting in the bottle, I tried for a while. But this time I'm going to use the hospital pump. And if it works then I don't mind expressing and sending him/her to childcare with bottles of breastmilk and nurse when I'm with him/her. But I guess I can ask you work-outside-the-home moms...How do you manage to extended breastfeed and go to work 5 days a week???

Also, keep in mind that breastfeeding does not have to be an all-or-nothing proposition. Although the AAP recommends *exclusive* breastfeeding (i.e. no formula, no water, no food) for the first six months, it is far, far better for baby's health (and yours) to continue the nursing relationship and nurse at home mornings, evenings, and on weekends and send formula to daycare if the pumping just doesn't work out. Once baby starts solids, too, the need for pumped breastmilk (or formula) may go down.

A lot of extended nursers who work outside the home may stop pumping at 12 months or so, but their nurslings are happy to keep nursing when they're with mommy but eat solids, drink cow's milk (or another milk alternative), or whatever when they're at daycare.

Whatever you decide with respect to pumping, please don't think that you have to stop breastfeeding because you are going back to work at 3 months. You and your child can be flexible and keep up the nursing relationship, with all its many, many physical and emotional benefits to both of you, no matter what happens to be in her bottle at daycare.


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## newlife (Jun 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RubyV*
Excuse my bluntness, but why are you here on the extended nursing board? If you find the idea of bf a toddler to be a sexual and gross act, why post here? What sexual damage will nursing past 365 days create, out of curiosity? On what are you basing this assesment? What research?

As for a nursing 13 yo, It might be easier to take you seriously if you kept your posts in the realm of reality.

Wonder if my local bridge has lost their troll?

This is directed to newlife, just to be clear

Excuse my bluntness, but why are you here on the extended nursing board? If you find the idea of bf a toddler to be a sexual and gross act, why post here? What sexual damage will nursing past 365 days create, out of curiosity? On what are you basing this assesment? What research?

Actually, I can looking for more info on breastfeeeding in general, and then started reading through the threads, which lead me to my initial question. Why post here? I had a question, simple. You say 365 days so definately, I say a year; meaning a years and some days or months. I don't know for sure that nursing after 365 days can cause any damage, but I do think that when you get to the point that a child may be able to recall this when they get older it COULD be a problem. And with all of the emtional problems that children today are growing up with, I don't see why something else should be added on. I am basing my assesment on my own personal opinion, which I, as everyone else here, have the right to have and express.

As for a nursing 13 yo, It might be easier to take you seriously if you kept your posts in the realm of reality.

That is just my point, what is the realm of reality here. By your comment I assume that you would find something wrong with seeing a mother breastfeed a 13 year old. And although I doubt that the body would let you continue to nurse a child for 13 years, it is always possible. And even if it were'nt whose is to say that a mother who has a 13 year old also has an infant that is beaing breastfeed. And who is to say that the same mother doesn't see a problem with breastfeeding her 13 year old either? I mean I would think from what I have read that there will still be a nutritional benefit. So just what would be the problem? And if you are saying that something like that is not or can not happen in the world that we live in today, well I would suggest that you get in the realm of reality.

And as a last note, from what I have read I am guessing a troll is a person posing to be someone else on a forum. Sorry, but that is not me. I am eiht months pregnant with my first child who happens to be a boy, and just because my posts or questions do not conform to the norm on this board does not mean, that I am her posing as someone that I am not.


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## newlife (Jun 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *onlyboys*
So, the mom should pump her breasts? What if she can't? Poor baby, I guess; he or she just misses out on breastmilk into her 2nd year...

And, when does a baby become a toddler become a child? Who makes these arbitrary guidelines?

I really have no problem with you asking questions (even ones that could potentially hurt other mamas) but at least LISTEN to what people are telling you. Read back through the links. Understand that you don't have enough life wisdom yet to make blanket statements like you are.

Also, I was breastfed into my 3rd year. So was my brother. I feel pretty good about myself, and we're both healthy and happy.









I doubt after, nursing for a year that a mother won't be able to pump her breasts. And in my opinion a baby becomes a toddler at 2 years old, a toddler becomes a child at 4 years old, a child becomes a teenager at 13 years old, and a teenager beomes an adult at about 20 or 21 years old. These are my guidelines. I base them mostly on age, but if you are talking about maturity well that of course depends on the child.

None of my posts are meant to hurt anyone at all, so I hope no one takes them that way. I am just stating my opinion, and I was trying to get the views of others; which I did at first. But now it seems that many are taking my opinions personally, which I have no control over. I am trying to listen to what others have to say, but unfortunately many others are now simply being catty. What brings on wisdom. Not age, not motherhood, but knowledge. Now where this knowledge comes from is a whole different story. So not all wisdom is true wisdom, so I never take anything that anyone ahs to say at face value, whether they be mothers, grandmothers, great grandmothers, or even scientists.

I am glad you and your brother are healthy and happy. But the problem is number one you and your brother were living in a different world when you were 3 years old, not today. And that is where I believe this whole issue lies.


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## newlife (Jun 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stafl*







:














:








you either just don't get it, or you are baiting us. Either way, the previous replies have already sufficiently answered your questions. I refuse to get angry at your statements, and am going to give you the benefit of a doubt and not believe that you are trying to anger us. Come back once you have a clue.
:LOL

None of my posts are meant to make anyone angry, and I find it a little conceded to think that anything I say is meant to anger you.


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## newlife (Jun 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pajara2*
I have to say that I, too, get uncomfortable when I see older children breastfeeding. I don't judge the parents, we all make our choices, and for us they are the right choices.

I've read what's been said, and I did breastfeed my first (until 6 mos) and will breastfeed my next (probably also until 6 mos).

My question, I guess, in a way, is this:

I understand that the biological function of the breast is to provide nourishment. BUT I also understand very clearly that the societal (for the most part, although sadly) function of the breast is predominantly sexual. So....how would my son feel when he becomes a teen, and has memories of being 5, 6, even 7 and latched on to my breast? I think if I had actual memories of breastfeeding from my mom at that age I would be TOTALLY grossed out.

As earlier questioned, this isn't based on a report, or study, or article; just based on my opinion and what I would imagine my feelings to be. I think it's admirable that we as mothers make so many decisions based on what is best for our children, if you feel breastfeeding until self weening is best, then I admire you for the sacrifice/gift/decision you have made, whether I understand it or not.









This is my point. I am not trying to debate the nutritonal value of of breast milk. I keep seeing the terms breast milk and breastfeed being used interchangeably, when they are not. They are two different things. So it is great that children are still getting breastmilk as they grow older, because it is good for them. But in MY OPINION, beaing breastfeed as they get older, is more detrimetal than anyone may realize.


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## newlife (Jun 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz*
First you say that we feel differently because we're nursing and you have never done that. Then, you say that it is unlikely you'll change your mind. I'm confused. Are you just posting in the EN board to try to find people who are likeminded? If so you surely have the wrong board. Try Babycenter at www.babycenter.com, or sheknows at talk.sheknows.com. If you want to find other people who are ignorant of the fact that extended nursing is natural, beneficial, desirable and that there's nothing wrong with it, you'll find people a'plenty on those boards.

I'm afraid I don't see your point. What does a breastfeeding 10 year old have to do with a breastfeeding 3 year old?

This is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of facts. There is not inherently sexual about breasts; our culture simply happens to see them as sexual objects. Visit the Pygmies in Africa, explain your concerns about extended nursing to them, and then look for bewildered looks on all faces since they haven't been subjected to the same strange cultural brainwashing.

I'm a little confused here because now you're saying that there's nothing wrong with a toddler having breastmilk. The whole point of your thread was that you thought it was weird, gross and inappropriate for a toddler to breastfeed. There aren't many people here who are nursing their 10-year-olds, so I'm not sure what your point is.

You're making an extremely bold statement here. Do you have any evidence or data to support your claim? When have you decided that breastfeeding stops being nurturing and becomes a problem that will manifest itself?

If you have ANY facts or evidence to support your claim that breastfeeding beyond one year is inappropriate, please share them. I'll share the alternate opinions with you :

AAFP recommends nursing for 2 years min.
AAP recommends nursing beyond one year "as long as mutuallly desirable".
WHO recommends nursing for 2 years min.
Anthropologist Kathryn Dettwyler has studied this topic and believes the natural age of weaning is between ages 2 and 7.

First it is unlikely that I will change my mind because I stand firm in my choice, but when I actually do breastfeed I may see, the point of some to still want that closeness with their child.

I am not ignorant to the fact that ignorant of the fact that extended breast milk NOT BREASTFEEDING is natural, beneficial, and desirable. Not at all. But you as many others, are being ignorant to the fact the extended breastfeeding may be detrimental to a child's psychological health.

There is nothing wrong with a toddler having BREASTMILK, but again in MY OPINION there is something wrong with a toddler ebing BREASTFEED. And I do think that it is inappropriate for a child to be BREASTFEED. No maybe there aren't many people nursing 10 years olds, but from what everyone is saying here nothing would be wrong with it. It is nutritional and continues the bond doesn't it?

Truth be told I don't care that people may find something wrong with my opinion. Since I am the person finding something wrong with what theyare doing, I would assume that they would look at me a little bit funny. I could give various examples of this,but it is off topic so I'll leave it alone.

I think breastfeeding will become a problem when a child gets to an age where he or she can recollect, or even ask to be breastfeed.

I have no facts to base any of this on, and I never said I did. I have stated from the start that is is my opinion. I have seen the webpage that you got the references from, and true those are there but the page mostly talks about breastmilk, which is not the issue here.


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## atomicmama (Aug 21, 2004)

When dd was born I planned to bf for a year. But, when it got to that point, neither of us wanted to give it up! She nursed for almost three years! (mostly just at night after 18 mos. her choice)
Now, ds 13 mos. today! And, I'm completely comfortable with it.
The only "complex" I can see them ending up with, is security!

I would like to add that when I asked dd if she remembered nursing, she said, "No."


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## newlife (Jun 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Meiri*
Judging by all the developmentally normal children I've met at these ages, not an issue. I let DS lead the way and he was done at 5. Biologically normal age for stopping is between 2 and 7.

Setting up strawmen is not legitimate discussion. This would not happen with a developmentally normal teenager. I can't speak for moms of children with developmental issues, but I trust that they would make the best decision for themselves and their family. Looking for the vanishly rare exceptions does not strengthen your premise.

No, because you don't have one. Setting up vanishingly rare strawmen to question parenting practices that are within the biological norms does not a legitimate point make.

Too old is when the child no longer wants to. Too old is when mom has nursed for a good length of time-year or two minimum IMO, but any beats none--and has gotten to a point of being tired and fed up with nursing. The thing I think you don't grasp is that nursing a child who's 2 or 3 or 4 or even 5 is absolutely nothing like nursing a newborn. It may not even be daily depending on where the child is in his/her process of growing out of needing it.


Okay what are the biological norms, and how are you sure that these are the norms? The norm for women to start menopause is around 40 or 50, but I know a woman personally (one of my instrutors, as a matter of fact) who had no health problems at all, and started menopause at the age of 19. So I don't care what science says the norms are. Science also says there is no God, but I won't even get started there. I don't really care about how many times a child is breastfeed. In my opinion at a certain age a child having their mother's breast in their mouth is not right and not beneficial, plain and simple.


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## newlife (Jun 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evergreen*
At the age of eight or nine years old, I could explain that I no longer felt comfortable continuing the relationship and the child could comprehend why. That doesn't work in a two year old. Plus very few kids are still nursing at that age. I have never heard of anyone nursing at the age of 14, think about it, would you have wanted to nurse whan you were 14?

What are you saying? THat 15 month old babies have sexual fantasies about their mothers' breasts????







:

Didi you know that Michael Jordan was breastfed for three years, Michael jackson wasn't breastfed at all. Which one do you think had problems that manifested later in life?


I just wanted to reply to the things that I left in the quote quickly.

No I wouldn't want to nurse at 14, but I also have no memories of being breastfeed either. I could compare this to an 11 year old girl who had gotten pregnant by a 25 year old man. Now she found nothing wrong with their relationship. And why is that? Well there could be many reasons, but I think that it had something to do with her step-father molesting her when she was 5 years old.

Who is to say that 15 month olds don't have sexual fantasies are urges. They may be children, but they are also human.

And lastly, I don't remember Micheal Jordan beaing sexually abused by a man, as a child either. Maybe that could have been a contributing factor to Micheal Jackson's problems.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

Wow Newlife, you have so much to learn and you have such ridgid views its frightening.

My goodness, I really think that you should try to be more neutral in your opinions until you are actually faced with making the desision to wean or not, and when. Parenting is so rarely black and white straight across the board.

I also have a great problem with you posting this on the EBF forum. This is to be a place that is a 'safe' environment for those in support of extended breastfeeding. Which you are clearly not in support of.

To think that a child may be caused damage because of breastfeeding to an age where they can remember the act of being at the breast is simply ignorant. It is also based on the fact that you have sexualized your breasts.

To the moderaters...why do we have to put up with posters who are clearly out to instigate and antagonize and do not subscribe to the ideals of a NFL or AP lifestyle.

Oh the judgement....







:


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## shelbean91 (May 11, 2002)

Newlife-

I read some of your other posts before replying to this this thread. You are a younger mom, and while that is not a bad thing, I think the lack of life experience in this situation is making you sound very ignorant. You are making decisions based on something you know nothing about, other than you don't want a child's mouth on your breast past a certain age. Before I became a mother, I wasn't sure how I would feel about it, either, but I at least said I wasn't sure how I would feel about it.

Once you get to the point of being able to breastfeed, you will see that putting a child to your breast is much more natural than hooking up to a pump and transferring milk to a bottle. Or maybe you won't see that. You say it's ok for a toddler to get breastmilk, just not breastFEED, but your inexperience with the situation doesn't let you know how much work it is to pump. Only pumping, not breastfeeding is a good way to lose your milk supply- pumps aren't near as effective.

My kids did wean before they were 2, but they were 20-22 mos. The thing is, they don't flip a switch at a certain age. Maybe you would feel this way even if you were an older mom. I'm not trying to sound patronizing, so please don't take it that way. If you're truly trying to understand, ask questions. If you flat out don't agree with what the mom's here are doing, that's your right, but don't expect anyone to change their minds and agree with you.

If you don't have an open mind, you have every right not frequent the extended breastfeeding board. There are plenty of other forums here at mothering that you may enjoy more.


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## andi_3k (Oct 22, 2002)

Thank you MDC mom for a great discussion and for some great links. You've been very patient in the face of some very judgmental postings. I've learned a lot too.


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## darlindeliasmom (Nov 19, 2001)

yeah, I agree with mountainmom. time for the mods to act! I was patient when I thought there was learning going on, and wish pajara2 all the luck in the world...
BUT
I have to say that it really doesn't sit well with me to come to one of my favorite places on mothering and be oh so subtly accused of sexually abusing my wonderful, secure child who thinks it's child abuse that her friends were denied nursies so young...
crawling back under the rock I guess I and Delia belong under...sigh


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

OK, so the OP is not only ignorant, but unwilling to be educated. I'm not going to comment on her unfortunate oppinions anymore, but this cracked me up

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
I am glad you and your brother are healthy and happy. But the problem is number one you and your brother were living in a different world when you were 3 years old, not today. And that is where I believe this whole issue lies.

Unless onlyboys grew up in the 1600s, I think their extended nursing would have actually been looked down upon much more than today!

Inspite of statistical and antecdotal evidence to the contrary, newlife, you still hold onto your made up idea that ebfing is psychologically damaging. It is one thing to have your own ideas about when you feel it is appropriate to wean your own children, but it is quite another to come here, to an Extended Nursing forum, call it "gross" and deem it as haveing psychological ramifications later in life just because you have made an uneducated assumption that it is. Sorry, but I have read the rest of your posts, you're certainly no psychologist, I don't think you have a case, it would probably be the most beneficial to quit digging yourself deeper on this issue.


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

Ok you MDC EN moms have been great and very patient here. I hope I can be just as nice. I've read thru this thread and then left it and now I'm back. Should I even bother?

Ok our new poster is not even breastfeeding. wow you sure are judgemental and you haven't even given birth yet. I think all of us felt differently before our births and learned along the way.

2 months pregnant I went to an LLL meeting. I saw toddlers and older children nursing. Was I grossed out? No, but it was something I was certainly not accustomed to and found it a little odd! That would not be me.

Well at the end of this, you will see the ages that my children weaned. I think its wonderful that they look at a breastfeeding relationship and say to themselves how normal it is and how odd that women go to the store and pay so much money for formula when mom makes it for free and it is so good.

My son did not nurse as long but saw his sister nurse for many years. My son remembers me breastfeeding her and my daughter still remembers it very fondly and vividly. She is 8 and he is 11.

Did it damage them. Not at all. They are healthy, energetic, athletic kids. My dd is an A+ student. They both have tons of friends. Sometimes after school it could be very hectic with my kids social lives. There are always a slew of children in my yard. I love it. I don't think my kids were damaged by breastfeeding.

Avg age of nursing worldwide 2-7 years. I think you will find it hard pressed to find a nursing 10 year old. And a teenager, comeone, once they go thru puberty they don't want to even know mom









Working moms who pump: That would also be me. I work 24 hours on 48 hours off. Yes I pumped during my 24 hour shifts. Was it tough, you bet! I'm a firefighter. I pumped regardless of the stress, I pumped and left it all and went to fight a fire, came back finished up. Spent 5 hours at a fire once, wanted to explode, but mangaged to make it back and pump for my baby.

You do what you want to do. this was important to me. I never used formula.


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

newlife said:


> I have see children countless times, in malls, stores, and restaurants grabbing at their mothers breast or just putting their mouths on their breast at 3 or 4 years old, and that is just ridiculous. QUOTE]
> 
> Where do you live! I would love to live in a place like this where moms and children are nursing in malls, stores and restaurants.
> 
> ...


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## mamadawg (Jun 23, 2004)

I just spent the last 45 minutes reading this thread & I had to add my $.02...

newlife, first of all it does seem rather trollish that you'd come to the Extended Breastfeeding forum and ask these questions and then refuse to listen to the answers with respect. If you have such rigid opinions and you disagree with 99.9% of the people here, why argue with us? If you truly want to understand why someone would do extended breastfeeding, ask that, but please leave the prejudice at the door. I once thought nursing a toddler was weird, but now that I'm a mother I don't think it's weird at all.

I once had lots of opinions about motherhood & children before I had my own. Once you have your own child it's very likely you'll be amazed how much your mind will change.

Good luck to you. I hope you try to open your mind a bit--for your child's sake.








,
mamadawg--(nursing two (almost) 15 month olds (who know how to lift up my shirt to get to the boob & *insist* on nursing whilst standing much of the time) and has no plans to quit anytime soon.)


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
Okay is it just me or does anyone else find something wrong with breastfeeding after one year? I mean, continuing to give a child breast milk after a year is fine, but actually breast feeding. I have read stories on this board and countless others, about toddlers still being breastfeed. Not only do I find something wrong with a toddler being breast feed at 2,3, or 4 but I find something very wrong with a parent not having a problem with it. It is just my opinion, but I really think that children can develop a complex from this. I have see children countless times, in malls, stores, and restaurants grabbing at their mothers breast or just putting their mouths on their breast at 3 or 4 years old, and that is just ridiculous. I do plan on beast feeding, and mostly because of the bond that it creates, but after a year I think the mother child bond is well established and their is really no reason for actual breastfeeding to continue. I mean is it really okay to brestfeed a toddler. I mean no offence to anyone but I find this totally unappropriated. I am sure I will hear a lot about this, but it is just my opinion.

On these boards?

Breastmilk continues to offer nutrition as well as anti-bodies and protects a baby against possible food allergies far beyond one year.

Breastfeeding isn't at all about the bond at least it never was to me. It is about giving your child the ideal food and the presence of anti-bodies in BM.

YES! It is *really ok* to bf a toddler. The American Academy of Pedriatics, the World Health organization and countless other medical associations support EN. Mothering Magazine that owns this board is also staunchly pro-EN.

I didn't wean until well after my child's third birthday and it was a choice made by BOTH of us.

Pumping breastmilk works differently for each woman. I nursed for three years as I stated and like my sister who nursed for over ten years (three children...didn't nurse a ten year old) Neither of us can pump. We do not get more than an ounce from pumping, for many it just isn't an option.

You are making assumptions that anyone can pump when that simply is not at all the case. It isn't even a minority of women who don't get anything from a pump, many do not. There is a difference between the pumping and the way your individual child may nurse from the breast. Babies are experts at nursing and they can get more than a pump anyways.

it would be easy at this point to say maybe I didn't have milk at that point. My child (probably due to possible food allergies) exclusively nursed well past 18 months. This is not uncommon she was just completley uninterested in food and refused many things offered to her.

There is nothing wrong with nursing past one year. If you have concerns I would recommend speaking to a psychiatrist about it as most agree that BF is best.


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## Dmitrizmom (Nov 11, 2002)

I just have to pop back and add that there has been at least one study done on breastmilk that demonstrates that it changes to meet a child's needs based on what is in the child's saliva on the mother's breast! so, switching to exclusively pumping and not nursing and giving bm in a bottle would not produce the same result. Just food for thought. (I don't have the reference at hand - lost it when my computer crashed about a month ago, but will try to find it)


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

Newlife - this has been touched upon, but bears repeating. Attempt to reserve judgment for the time being - give birth, become a mother, nurse your baby, and check back here after a year. Until then, you have no foundation for your statements. Once you're a mother, once you've nursed your child, then I would give more respect to your opinions of nursing mothers...but you're not there yet. I wish you a healthy pregnancy, a safe labor, and a wonderful baby. Best of luck with everything!!!


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Also, this is not a debate board. It is inappropiate to post in the Extended Breastfeeding boards at Mothering to say you find it ridiculous and unhealthy.

The mothers who are nursing past one year have all the science and medical organizations on their side.

Mothering is not a place to debate BF or EN as Mothering fully supports BF and EN.

I suggest you do some reading here as well as on other sites for more information. Condemning mothers who are EN is not ok at Mothering. This is a BF and EN friendly site.

Should you have questions I would advise you put it more delicately and in the form of a questions. Opinions condemning EN mothers will not be hosted at this site.

Since you must be new..I will point out my name has the word "moderator" under it.

Thanks
Jessica


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## stafl (Jul 1, 2002)

you want the evidence? We got evidence on our side, not just societal prejudices and opinions. Try these links for starters, and I'll find you some more...
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/index.html
bunch of really good links at that site!

Quote:

"Parents and health professionals need to recognize that the benefits of breastfeeding (nutritional, immunological, cognitive, emotional) continue as long as breastfeeding itself does, and that there never comes a point when you can replace breast milk with infant formula, cows' milk or any other food, or breastfeeding with a pacifier or teddy bear, without some costs to the child."

-- KA Dettwyler, "Beauty and the Breast" from Breastfeeding: Biocultural Perspectives, 1995, p. 204.
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/T020500.asp

Quote:

The health benefits of breastfeeding extend far past weaning. As researchers look at the various factors associated with different diseases, they often find that children and adults who were breastfed as infants are less likely to experience problems with chronic diseases. In some cases, even minimal amounts of breastfeeding may provide some protection against disease in later life, but usually the longer a baby is breastfed the greater the protective effect.
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/T020700.asp

Quote:

Women who breastfeed reduce their risk of developing breast cancer by as much as 25 percent. The reduction in cancer risk comes in proportion to the cumulative lifetime duration of breastfeeding. That is, the more months or years a mother breastfeeds, the lower her risk of breast cancer.
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/T026400.asp

Quote:

We urge mothers to think in terms of years, not months, when contemplating how long to nurse. Breastfeeding is a long-term investment in your child. You want to give your baby the best emotional, physical, and mental start. Extended breastfeeding is nature's way of filling your baby's need for intimacy and appropriate dependency on other people. If these needs are met early on, your child will grow up to be a sensitive and independent adult. We have noticed that children not weaned before their time are:

more independent and self-confident
Gravitate to people rather than things
Are easier to discipline
Experience less anger
Radiate trust

Former Surgeon General, Dr. Antonia Novello, proclaimed: "It's the lucky baby, I feel, who continues to nurse until he's two." A baby's sucking need lessens sometime between nine months and three years. The age at which this need lessens is individual, yet very few babies are emotionally filled and ready to wean before a year. Have confidence in your intuition. While this beautiful breastfeeding relationship may seem like it will never end, you are laying a solid foundation for the person your child will later become. Cutting corners now will only create problems in the future.

MDC is not the place to come and question extended nursing in an antagonistic fashion. If your questions are sincere, you sure have a funny way of asking them. I think maybe the best thing you could do for yourself as an expectant mother and for your unborn child, right now is to get yourself a subscription to Mothering magazine, or at least read the articles available online.







Really now, read the information at the links I posted. If after reading them, you still have questions, please feel free to ask them, but don't tell me how wrong I am when you really don't have any evidence for that opinion other than your own misguided prejudices.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I feel this conversation has been *fairly* respectful thus far and so would like to ask a question.

Newlife, you have admitted over and over that you have no facts, no experience, etc... but that "in your opinion" the many facts (along with personal experience) that have been presented are wrong. Could you please at least find medical, psycological or anthropological information backing up your position?

Additionally:

Quote:

I doubt after, nursing for a year that a mother won't be able to pump her breasts.
I am sure you can find many other mothers than I to tell you that pumping is a *skill*, one that not every woman can perform with the same competency. I, for one, would not have been able to provide either of my children with the amount of bmilk their bodies asked for at one year by pumping. I was able to pump small amounts while they were very young, but virtually nothing as they aged.

But the fact remains, that as the biological norm, I do not need to find a reason to continue nursing, I would need to find reasons to stop.

Quote:

And in my opinion a baby becomes a toddler at 2 years old, a toddler becomes a child at 4 years old, a child becomes a teenager at 13 years old, and a teenager beomes an adult at about 20 or 21 years old.
So, if you consider babyhood to last at least 23 months, doesn't it make sense that *IN YOUR OWN OPINION* nursing should last at least that long as well?

Quote:

I think breastfeeding will become a problem when a child gets to an age where he or she can recollect, or even ask to be breastfeed.
What do you mean by "ask to be breastfed"? Do you mean actually state clearly, "Excuse me mother, but may I please nurse at your bosum for a short time?" How about whimpering, smacking lips, saying "nu nu"...? What about children who will never gain the ability to "talk"--- should they be nursed until adulthood. Or on the other side of that coin, the very rare child who can speak before 3 months?

You are attempting to set an arbitrary stopping point on a process that should be individually controlled. Just as will *all* milestones, there is a biologically normal range. Research suggests that the range for this is 2-7 years and 2-4 years being average in western society.

Quote:

I have seen the webpage that you got the references from, and true those are there but the page mostly talks about breastmilk, which is not the issue here.
Some benifits, such as jaw development & specific immunity production are *only* possible through direct mom to baby contact. I would very much like you to reference a site that seperates the attributes of *bmilk* and *bfeeding.* I think you will find that the assumption is that a child is still actively Bfeeding.

Quote:

No I wouldn't want to nurse at 14, but I also have no memories of being breastfeed either. I could compare this to an 11 year old girl who had gotten pregnant by a 25 year old man. Now she found nothing wrong with their relationship. And why is that? Well there could be many reasons, but I think that it had something to do with her step-father molesting her when she was 5 years old.
I think you should really reconsider your "examples" unless you mean to be drawing comparisons between sustained bfeeding and child molestation.

If there truly were a factual concern with sustained nursing, don't you think you could find one child's health organization that stated that. It has been studied: nursing BY ITSELF is not harmful. Yes, there could be some horrible parents out there who *happen to nurse* but that is not the same thing.


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## Firemom (Nov 21, 2001)

After reading the last post, it came to mind, how easy pumping for me was the first year of life. After 1 year it was not as easy. At about 18 months I could barely pump an oz even though my daughter was still nursing rather frequently when I was home from work.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Thanks for the info Cindy!

I *thought* that was true (pumping with an older nursling being harder) but it is nice for someone with experience to weigh in.

Kay


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## loving-my-babies (Apr 2, 2004)

I don't know what's going on because I just found this thread, and I only read a couple posts, but NO I don't think it's wrong to breastfeed past one year, and if you're looking for mothers who do (clearly you are asking if you are the only one) then I don't think MDC is your place. HOWEVER, having said that, if you are open to learning about NFL and extended breastfeeding, then welcome and I hope you can take advantage of the very wise mothers we have on this board. Anyone that's been here for a while (I could name you so many) can give you excellent advice and information, links and other sources to educate you on the subject.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

Newlife, since your concern is the actual toddler or child at the breast I will say this, even if it's been said before:

Pacifiers and bottles are BAD for baby's/toddler's/children's teeth and jaws. The actual way that the teeth are held and the jaw manuevers specifically for breastfeeding are beneficial for the jaw. The way the milk goes only right to the back of the throat and doesn't pool around the teeth (as can only be done with breastfeeding) is beneficial.

So that equals WAY MORE dental/orthodonical problems if you DON'T EB

&

WAY LESS dental/orthodontical problems if you DO EB.

Also, the actual skin to skin contact relieves stress and promotes physical well being and therefore psychological well being.

One more...

Mother's who breastfeed are LESS likely to abuse their children AND the longer you breastfeed, the lower the chances are of abuse. BREASTFEEDING IS PHYSICALLY, EMOTIONALLY, MENTALLY AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY BENEFICIAL TO CHILDREN.

I could go on and on and on but I won't.

Let's close this thread already, eh Mods?


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

I guess I'm wondering, do you realize what this board is about at all?

First, you are on the Extended Breastfeeding forum, so maybe it occurs to you that people here thing that breastfeeding past a year is a good idea?

Then, you are on a board where women have smilies in their signatures representing themselves nursing toddlers. Surely, if you aren't a strong reader, you must have noticed these animated cartoons at the bottoms of the messages?

Then also, the ethos of the entire board is determined by the print journal Mothering, which regularly runs articles about breastfeeding that suggest that mother nurse their children well past a year. In one recent issue, Mothering published an article by a woman who was nursing her 5 year old.

The board as a whole is oriented toward Natural Family Living and Attachment Parenting. NFL emphasizes natural foods and whole foods and nutrition, so there are a lot of moms here who are nursing as long as they can to provide the nutrition of breastmilk and the live antibodies it contains. AP emphasizes high-touch, responsive parenting, so there are lots of moms here who are nursing as long as they can to make a strong bond with their babies. They also hold them and carry them around in slings on their bodies.

I guess you haven't read much on these boards, either that or you are spoiling for a fight.


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## mountain mom (Nov 6, 2003)

I just think that if you are determined to not change your opinions, which you have stated is the case, then there are soooo many other places online and IRL that will welcome you with open arms.

I too, wonder why the heck you are here? It really is not making much sense. Its one thing to learn and grow and then another to be ridgit and antagonistic.

Do you realize that when you post up comments about how you feel that women who are eb'ing are 'damaging' their children, that you are projecting negativity? Not only that you are stating unwelcome, incorrect and inexperienced views on a board that will simplely not tolerate it.

People remember posters like you.







:


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
I doubt after, nursing for a year that a mother won't be able to pump her breasts.

Pumping *is* skill, and sometimes, honestly, I can't ever get any milk when I pump and I've been nursing for almost 3 years, 2 babies... (Well, my 1st weaned at 3.5 years, so I've nursed for 6.5 years in all...) So, you're just plain mistaken with this statement unless I'm a weird one.

Quote:

And in my opinion a baby becomes a toddler at 2 years old, a toddler becomes a child at 4 years old, a child becomes a teenager at 13 years old, and a teenager beomes an adult at about 20 or 21 years old. These are my guidelines. I base them mostly on age, but if you are talking about maturity well that of course depends on the child.
I am talking maturity here; I don't think that my 2 year old was any less of a baby at 2 years 0 months as he is at 2 years 11 months. He would have been so confused if I had suddenly ended our nursing relationship. I never, ever, ever want to make my children feel lost or lonely or hurt, and I believe that any of them *would* feel that way if suddenly weaned. It would hurt them a hell of a lot more than nursing them until they are finished. (Which may take years, yes.)

Quote:

What brings on wisdom. Not age, not motherhood, but knowledge. Now where this knowledge comes from is a whole different story. So not all wisdom is true wisdom, so I never take anything that anyone ahs to say at face value, whether they be mothers, grandmothers, great grandmothers, or even scientists.
I have a different definition for wisdom. I don't think it come *at all* from knowledge, but from experience. When you look down at your sweet baby, gently suckling at your breast, and you see him or her smile while he or she nurses, with that milk beading at the corner of his or her sweet mouth, only then will you be able to say whether or not you'll end that relationship (prematurely) at a year.

I'm going to venture a guess and say that you have no idea what's coming. And, I'm glad... It makes the journey all the sweeter. Suffice it to say that all the things I thought I was as a woman, a human and a mother-to-be changed intensely when my first son was born. Talk about parallax shift...

Quote:

I am glad you and your brother are healthy and happy. But the problem is number one you and your brother were living in a different world when you were 3 years old, not today. And that is where I believe this whole issue lies.
My brother was born in 1977, he weaned in probably 1981 or so. Not terribly long ago. Although we may seem ancient to you... :LOL


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## liam's mom (Jun 18, 2003)

My mother breastfed all of her children until they weaned themselves. For me, that was 12 months, so I don't have any memories of nursing. My younger sister, however, nursed until she was four. And she has nothing but positive, warm memories of the experience.

Something that has always bothered me, personally, is when someone says that once a baby can "ask for it" he/she should no longer be nursing.

Is a newborn that cries out of hunger not asking to be (breast)fed?

What about an eight month old who makes the sign for milk when she is hungry?

Or an eleven month old who crawls over to mama and tugs on her shirt when it's time for some nursies?

These are all examples of babies who are "asking" to be nursed; they're just too young to use words. I have never understood how simply vocalizing the desire to breastfeed means, to so many people, that the child is too old to nurse.

We practice child led weaning, and I'm so happy and thankful that I have been blessed with the ability to provide my son with all the benefits of extended nursing.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newlife*
First it is unlikely that I will change my mind because I stand firm in my choice, but when I actually do breastfeed I may see, the point of some to still want that closeness with their child.

I am not ignorant to the fact that ignorant of the fact that extended breast milk NOT BREASTFEEDING is natural, beneficial, and desirable. Not at all. But you as many others, are being ignorant to the fact the extended breastfeeding may be detrimental to a child's psychological health.

There is nothing wrong with a toddler having BREASTMILK, but again in MY OPINION there is something wrong with a toddler ebing BREASTFEED. And I do think that it is inappropriate for a child to be BREASTFEED. No maybe there aren't many people nursing 10 years olds, but from what everyone is saying here nothing would be wrong with it. It is nutritional and continues the bond doesn't it?

Truth be told I don't care that people may find something wrong with my opinion. Since I am the person finding something wrong with what theyare doing, I would assume that they would look at me a little bit funny. I could give various examples of this,but it is off topic so I'll leave it alone.

I think breastfeeding will become a problem when a child gets to an age where he or she can recollect, or even ask to be breastfeed.

I have no facts to base any of this on, and I never said I did. I have stated from the start that is is my opinion. I have seen the webpage that you got the references from, and true those are there but the page mostly talks about breastmilk, which is not the issue here.

Wow! So you've drawn a conclusion, you have NO evidence, NOTHING to base it on, but you've chosen to believe that something women have done for MILLIONS of years (before humankind even existed, because our predecessors did the same thing) is going to scar children.

Hmmm.... well, there's no arguing with "I'm right because I say I'm right because I say I'm right".

You surely don't truly believe that breastfeeding a child until they can remember it will cause EMOTIONAL DAMAGE? Where did you come up with this opinion? Since you have no facts , no data, where did you come up with it exactly? Got ANY examples? Any actual information at all?

What do you do with someone who ignores reality? You stop posting to their thread, that's what you do. And, that's I shall do from now on.


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## crayon (Aug 24, 2002)

Okay first off I have not read other responses to this thread, But I wanted to post how I felt reading the OP- First you have never BF a baby let alone a toddler so I think you have little room to question those who do- as if to say it is wrong. If it makes you feel so nasty perhaps you need to find out why, where is this insecurity coming from? I would also say, as I did see some of the mamas gave you links, EDUCATE YOURSELF. If you decide to wean your baby at a year, that is fine, but you have to understand there is more to BF a toddler than a mother who cant separate yourself from her child. Perhaps you will understand that when you have a toddler or become a mother. My DD is 21 months old and is not ready to wean, and believe me the last 7 month of being pregnant and dealing with very sore breast has not been easy. I nurse my DD for nutrition, for her comfort, for her security and because she still needs it and me. She has slowed down, it is not like nursing a newborn. She nurse only once a day most days, and even if I would be sad if she weaned- I would love to tandem nurse, I will leave that up to her- and I let her do that in her own time.

Like I said, I hope you explore your feelings with why you have a problem seeing a toddler on a breast. A child knows nothing of sex, so if it is a sexual issue, you need to address that. I hope you educate yourself on toddler nursing.


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## loving-my-babies (Apr 2, 2004)

I can see lots of our mamas here are getting upset, please don't be upset and don't feel bad, I hate to see you guys justifying your nursing a toddler, just because someone with no education whatsoever on breastfeeding logs onto our forum just to get some attention. Not only I find that sad and pathetic, but also very immature. I hope you educate yourself for the sake of your children, if you have any.


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## Persephone (Apr 8, 2004)

"I think breastfeeding will become a problem when a child gets to an age where he or she can recollect, or even ask to be breastfeed."

Have you ever known anyone who can recall their breastfeeding experience? I just wonder, because I have known people whose children remember nursing, and they remember it as a fond time in their young childhood. I was breastfed til I self weaned at two, and I have no recollection of nursing, and that makes me sad. Perhaps if I remembered my mother's unconditional love through her breastmilk, I'd be closer to her. (We have a pretty good relationship now, but I bet the memory of nursing would make it stronger.)


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## aira (Jun 16, 2004)

I don't have time to read every word in this thread, but I wanted to add my 2 cents to the pot...

Strangely, my pregnancy ideas about nursing were that I'd read every quality resourse on the planet, plan for any contingency, and of course, have no problems because I had prepared so well. I'd BF until DS decided to stop and he'd be perfect b/c of my milk and nurturing. Ahhh, the luxury of thinking you know stuff before you've been there!

Like stafl, My DS had latching problems after we were in a car accident in the 35 week of pg. His head was engaged and he sustained a jaw injury. I can't begin to describe what hell it is to see your newborn starving and not know why. So I pumped and cried all the time. It took 12 weeks to find a ped chiro who eventually healed his injuries, thank God. But even with the best LCs in the world, he absolutely REFUSED to have anything to do with BF. He has consistently screamed anytime I remotely suggest latching. My milk supply has dropped steadily since 6 mo. mostly b/c of my chronic pain from my injuries and I'm sure from PPD.

My point: I have truely and profoundly *grieved* that I couldn't nurse my son. Do not underestimate how powerful it is. I admit it's really hard for me when I read about people taking that bond so lightly, or sexualizing it, or whatever. But I do remember well the pregnancy fantasies of how things will be, and I hope that you never have BF go so painfully wrong that your biggest wish is for for nothing more than to nurse your child.

Good luck to you and baby!


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## Chi-Chi Mama (Mar 13, 2002)

oh aira,














that is heartbreaking!

I am not sure if the OP is still here, but wanted to pop in and add myself to the list of those who started out thinking of breasfeeding for 6 months to a year. Or actually, it was originally 3-6 months. I was supposed to go back to work at 3 months and didn't think pumping would be fun.









largely thanks to this place







I realized just important it would be for me to keep up pumping. So I did.. Dd got older and older, and the 6 month became a year.. Then the WHO's recommendation of 2 yrs started to sound like a plan. I stopped pumping by then, but also switched to a part time job. Everybody IRL kept asking "so when are you weaning?"

It just made no sense. Like so many other people mentioned, your little baby doesn't all of a sudden go from a tiny 1.99 year old to a 2 year old toddler and VOILA, you're done. She needed the nutrition, the comfort, etc. This place helped me a lot as she neared the 2 yr old mark and the pressure grew.

Now, noone bothers me anymore







they know better. Dd just turned three last month, and still nurses. And she will for as long as she wants. I really don't think it will be 13









sorry for the long post, if the OP is not a troll (even if she is, there might be others out there reading this) maybe another call to 'wait and see' will help. I really feel like I was in your shoes 3.5 years ago.. (well, I do think I was a bit more open-minded







)


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## RubyV (Feb 4, 2004)

To newlife:

Pumping after 1 year does get much harder.

I'm an expert pumper. :LOL I exclusively pumped for my child the first 6 weeks, moved her to the breast slowly due to health issues that made her unable to latch, went back to work 12 hrs a day when she was 3 weeks old, stopped working at 3 mos, went back at five, and at 12 mos, work 4hrs/day.

She still nurses as much now as she did at 6 mos, but my breasts just don't respond the same way. I pump half of what I did just 6 mos ago. I have more than enough when we ar together, but really have a hard time pumping now. For example, we were separated 10 hours today, and I only pumped about 6 oz. That's waaaay less than I KNOW she nurses in that time period. A few months ago I would have gotten 12-14 oz in the same period of time.

Try picking up a good breastfeeding book.

and to Pajaras, You can pump and work. It's work, but soo worth it. Read "nursing mother working mother" (or is it working mother, nursing mother?). I found it super helpful.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

What she said! And her, and her, and her, and her, and her, and her, and her, and her...

Well said mamas! I'd add my 2 cents, but gotta go nurse my toddler to sleep...


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aira*
I don't have time to read every word in this thread, but I wanted to add my 2 cents to the pot...

Strangely, my pregnancy ideas about nursing were that I'd read every quality resourse on the planet, plan for any contingency, and of course, have no problems because I had prepared so well. I'd BF until DS decided to stop and he'd be perfect b/c of my milk and nurturing. Ahhh, the luxury of thinking you know stuff before you've been there!

Like stafl, My DS had latching problems after we were in a car accident in the 35 week of pg. His head was engaged and he sustained a jaw injury. I can't begin to describe what hell it is to see your newborn starving and not know why. So I pumped and cried all the time. It took 12 weeks to find a ped chiro who eventually healed his injuries, thank God. But even with the best LCs in the world, he absolutely REFUSED to have anything to do with BF. He has consistently screamed anytime I remotely suggest latching. My milk supply has dropped steadily since 6 mo. mostly b/c of my chronic pain from my injuries and I'm sure from PPD.

My point: I have truely and profoundly *grieved* that I couldn't nurse my son. Do not underestimate how powerful it is. I admit it's really hard for me when I read about people taking that bond so lightly, or sexualizing it, or whatever. But I do remember well the pregnancy fantasies of how things will be, and I hope that you never have BF go so painfully wrong that your biggest wish is for for nothing more than to nurse your child.

Good luck to you and baby!

This sounds so much like me. My son was born with a severe cleft lip and palate and couldn't nurse at all. Screamed at the suggestion of the breast. But he was born beautifully at home and I had every intention of nursing and having it go well. After all, I was breastFED until I was three (note: I don't remember it at all and since I was quite articulate as a child, I am certain that I could ask for it - Never had any Oedipus issues, however). I pumped breastmilk for 13 months, but starting at 10 months my son's demand started to outpace my supply. We began to use formula about once a day to fill in the gaps. I tried herbs, pumping more, pumping longer - nothing worked to up my once overwhelming supply.

Finally when he was 11 1/2 months, I began to let my supply dwindle and finally stopped altogether at 13 months. Pumping for a toddler is very difficult, yet I'd had tons of milk in the beginning. I had filled our freezer completely and had several days worth in the fridge. Slowly pumping didn't bring what it once had. Lots of people can hardly pump at all. Most moms I know struggle to get a few ounces a day. I had 8 to 10 oz a pumping. Sometimes more.

I would give anything to be nursing my now 28-month old still. It would be much simpler to soothe him with my breast than with a sippy cup. Not to mention our until recent heavy dependence on pacifiers. I look forward to allowing this new baby to self-wean, though I am certain I might have my limits. Breastfeeding should continue as long as both the mother and child are comfortable with it, just as La Leche League suggests.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

I think everyone is doing a great job with their responses


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## GeorgiaGalHeidi (Apr 16, 2004)

Normally, I would be quite blunt and rude in my response to such a post, but I looked at your sig, so I will take it easy on you.









Many of us here did not set out to nurse toddlers. When you hold that newborn baby, you do not say, I can't wait to nurse him when he is 3! Before you nurse, when you see it, you may even think it is weird. As a teen, I did. But, it just happens. WHY? Because he is your baby. Because his needs do not disappear at 12 months. Because the glorious BF relationship you have, which is quite complex at this time, cannot just go away overnight. Because you would not dare dream of ripping it away from him as doing such would cause severe trauma, and THAT could lead to a "complex" IMO. It is just one of those things that you have to wait on before you really committ to an opinion on it. When 12 months roll around, you may find that 12 months is not as old as you thought. Just take it one day at a time. Good luck with your new baby.


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## MamaAllNatural (Mar 10, 2004)

To the OP, here is a link to provide you with information on the breast's function and their anatomy. I hope you will read it to understand your body better and to let go of the false implications of breastfeeding that you have internalized from society.

http://www.007b.com/nipple_stimulation_sexual.php

I'd also like to recommend an excellent book:

Milk, Money, and Madness: The Culture and Politics of Breastfeeding by Naomi Baumslag MD, MPH and Dia L. Michels


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

wow, after reading this whole thread, i don't understand why, since you feel so ultimately set in your own world of beliefs, why on Earth you'd go out of your way to tell (in the name of inquiry originally) so many of these loving mamas that they're "damaging their babes psychologically" by loving them & growing them however they see fit? i'm stunned at your OP & then your subsequent responses to try to get YOUR point across to those who have soo much more experience than you do at this point. are you wanting to learn?

maybe the universe is using MDC to help you awaken to other ways? b'c these mamas are so very rich in wisdom & knowledge that it's intimidating at times! just open up a bit & really read what they say... it's pure love, nothing wrong with that. & people, including little people, are SO very different regarding personal needs... maybe your babes will self-wean at a year, maybe you won't even get the opportunity to BF at all, at any rate, let the child tell you what they need & it won't be "wrong" ever! babies are smarter than most adults, imo.

best luck with your pg & delivery & BF'ing







it's a whole 'nother world of beauty, as I'm told by the gorgeous, educated women here.


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

Newlife,
I just want to say that you coming here to learn about ways of parenting that may be new to you shows that you are making a very intelligent decision as a parent, and you haven't even given birth yet!!










My advice to you is to keep reading and asking questions. It's excellent. When you are learning, try to see things from a very nonjudgemental view. That way you can really learn from your investigations. For a while, maybe try just reading up on things and if you have questions about what you are reading (like if something doesn't make sense) come to a place like this. I'm sure someone will be able to explain it to you. There are a lot of smart mama's here. Just think, one day you'll be giving a new mom advice and help with her breastfeeding! If you keep up your research, you'll have the answers to give.


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## cynthia mosher (Aug 20, 1999)

Mothering upholds and supports extended breastfeeding. Doing so is a part of its core purpose in print and on the internet. Members are welcome to come here and ask questions to seek information about extended breastfeeding *if* their intent is to learn and understand.

However, if a member's intent is to argue and debate then such posts are inappropriate and not welcome. That is what I see happening here so I am closing this discussion.

This forum is filled with information about extended breastfeeding as well as mothers who have bountiful knowledge and experience. But the purpose is to inform and support, not denigrate or discount. If your mind is open you will find plenty here to absorb and benefit from. If your purpose is otherwise, this is simply not the place for it.


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