# Were you spanked as a child?



## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

It recently occurred to me that, through all the philosophical discussions I've had IRL and online about spanking, I've never had anybody tell me "I wasn't spanked as a child." It seems that everybody either says "I was spanked often and it was horrible" or "I was spanked only on rare occasions, and in retrospect I deserved it the few times it happened, love my parents deeply and think I learned important lessons from it and turned into a good, happy human being." So I'm trying to get a feeling for how many folks out there *weren't* spanked.

I don't want this particular poll to become a debate on spanking vs. not spanking. (That would make an interesting spin-off topic, but I'm sure it would get so overwhelmed quickly that it's not really worth going there.) Rather, I'm looking for more of an historical perspective to help us in other discussions on the topic. Also, please note that I'm not asking if you use or approve of using the same techniques your parents used, I'm only looking for historical information.

From an historical perspective, it occurs to me that almost everything we promote in this community has longstanding historical roots - breastfeeding, cosleeping, babywearing. These are all things that our ancestors did and other cultures currently do, but are eschewed by our "modern" society. Corporal punishment is the one clear exception to that rule - the one instance in which the traditional approach is rejected in favor of newer ideas. This is not to say that I think gentle discipline is therefore bad, but I'm trying to get a feeling for whether or not there is any evidence of it's effectiveness, or if it still qualifies as a social experiment. Of course, most of my life qualifies as a social experiment









Thank you!


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I must say that I did not know that there is a "long standing historical roots" as far as corporal punishment is concerned. I'll be interested to hear more about your research and wouldn't mind some references or articles about this if you have them.

I'll participate. No, I was not spanked as a child. I would consider my parent's method of discipline to be effective and am using a variation of it with my own children. I'll let you know if it works out in another 30 years, lol!

Edited to say that I just voted No (second from the top - "effective") but I don't love answers you gave because the seem very biased. I would like to see a more equal description of the effectiveness in the 'yes' and 'no' categories.

Would you consider including - * YES *, and I don't feel they did a good job of making me understand consequences or responsibility. Because this outcome is a distinct possibility and I think by omitting this you are showing a bias towards spaking, although, I'm sure it's unintentional.


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

My dad hit us around a lot- I would have been thankful to receive "just a spanking" more often which no child deserves.

I'm happy to say that I'm ending the cycle, and I have not hit or hurt my children physically







Of all the AP activism issues this is the one I feel strongest about.


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## bookwormmama (Dec 11, 2001)

I was not spanked as a child, i had a wet noodle for a mother.

I was not disciplined at all. We pretty much ran rampant over her, until she got married in search for a "father" for us. Both stepfathers were emotionally abusive, but not really physically abusive.

I am sometimes in a quandry about how to discipline my own children. I seem to freak out over little things, i think because i don't want to be the spineless sap. But i don't want dumb power struggles either!!

I think any type of violence in any personal relationship is destructive, PERIOD. I do not agree that hitting is right in any context whatsoever, but i still struggle with it at times. I have self control problems. But i keep trying!


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

That brings up another point that I was avoiding making. But, you may also want to include – No, I was not spanked but I was abused.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

i was abused so i cant comment on whether or not spanking is a good idea. i have no idea speaking in my own context.

my husband was spanked only rarely and he does not see that spanking is necessary. since my own childhood was so messed up i dont feel comfortable exerting physical force on my child.


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## karlin (Apr 8, 2004)

There wasn't a poll option for my situation. My parents did spank me on a few occasions, but decided it did not work, and started using other forms of discipline (taking away things, grounding me, etc.). On the few occasions I was spanked, I remember it not being very painful physically or emotionally. Having said that, I'm still not going to spank my son.


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## Bippity (Sep 12, 2003)

I was spanked, but only for serious offenses, but I don't think I learned anything constructive from it - unless learning how to be a good liar counts. I was a GREAT liar! I can't tell you how proud I used to feel when my brother got spanked for something I did! I used to secretly smile & say to myself, Geez i'm a good liar - I'm not like those others, I CAN keep my stories straight (& I did)!

Great lesson, huh?!


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## Fianna (Sep 4, 2003)

I couldn't vote because none of your answers fit my situation. I was spanked less than a handful of times. It was all in the span of three days and all for the same offense--overfeeding our horses during the day (I was preschool age and thought the horses looked hungry, so I fed them. Made sense to me.) My dad didn't do a very good job of explaining to me why I shouldn't feed the horses, just that I wasn't supposed to do it. But while he was gone to work during the day, his admonishments were drowned out by my concern over the horse's hunger (or so I thought). I did it three days in a row and was spanked at the end of each day when my dad came home. I remember each incident as being totally fear-producing and humiliating. He wasn't overcome with fury in the moment. It was matter-of-fact and horrible. No child should feel that way. Ever. It didn't teach me a damn thing about why I shouldn't be doing what I was doing. It taught me to have deep resentment toward my father and his obvious lack of understanding of my thoughts and feelings. I was an adult before I was able to have a really healthy, loving relationship with him. I'm glad we got there but I'm sorry it took so long. He admits with much sorrow now that he wasn't a very good parent in many ways. My older sister received the brunt of his anger and were spanked routinely.

I know you don't want this to turn into a debate (yeah, right!) but know one will ever be able to convince me that anyone has the right to hit another human being in the name of "discipline". Our families are the one place where we should feel totally safe in this world.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

My situation isn't accounted for in your polls.

I was spanked, but only occasionally. It wasn't a major discipline tool. Supposedly for serious offenses, but I recall situations where I think it was more due to parental exhaustion.

I don't agree with it, and I don't think it "didn't do any harm". I do NOT think I was abused, I love my parents and think they did a great job. I simply do not agree with what they did, and I do know that it had some effects on me that I still deal with to this day (mostly, it made me extremely rebellious, as I felt all the power was robbed of me, and that nobody cared to hear my side of the story, or my explanations, etc).

I also recall being frightened at times - my Dad would make us hold out our hands to get slapped. That was a real mind f**k.


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## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

IDCrisisMama, I guess I should clarify - common perception is that corporal punishment was a tool for centuries. I'm not a sociologist, and wouldn't really know how to go about reasearching that myself, and if anybody here has real evidence to the contrary I'd love to see it. But, as a well read historical nut, I can say that I've seen plenty of reference to corporal punishment through the centuries, and only an inkling of reconsideration to the contrary come about the Civil War era, at least in this country. I freely admit that my evidence is anecdotal, but still think that it's in great enough quantity to at least use it as a starting supposition.

My own story, for the record: My parents spanked me only rarely, and the only occasions that I can think of (i.e. stealing money from a friend's mother) were certainly on the extreme side of my behavior. I feel that the few spankings I had taught me that real world consequences *do* suck and that they're proportional to the gravity of my actions. So, I think I learned something good from them. On the other hand, they taught me very bad things. When I would babysit my sister and brother, I would try to spank them for every infraction. What on earth made me think that I, a 13 year old, was qualified to be making those kinds of value judgements, that I was able to determine that their actions were worthy of that kind of punishment and I was the right person to administer it? Clearly, that came from the lesson that spanking was an appropriate punishment to be meted out by a caregiver. Further, in general I was *far* more influenced by my father's approval or disapproval than I was by fear (my mother was a dishrag, her approval was pretty meaningless to me).

The other thing that bothers me about spanking, in my own historical experience, is that it's so easy to get carried away. I lived with a guy who spanked his son and allowed/encouraged me to do so as well. I discovered how easy it is to get carried away and use spanking as an outlet for frustration instead of a measured discipline tool. (I didn't use it all that much, but I can't tell you how many times I felt the urge to just give him a swat on the butt to get him to shape up *now* instead of patiently trying to work with him, just because I could.) Even ignoring any negatives, it doesn't make any positive change at all in the child's behavior when it's used too much, and it's *so* easy to use it too much.

The only net positive I learned about spanking is that if it's used very judiciously it will teach a lesson Really Fast. But in reality, very, very few lessons need to be taught fast. Certainly, those kinds of truely desperate situations don't crop up weekly, or even monthly. I put myself in the no-spank camp even though I don't think my parents did badly by spanking me, but I don't rule out the idea that the occasion will ever come where I'll make an exception.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I was spanked, very rarely. When it did happen, it was my mom flipping out and hitting me, not a controlled thing. I remember around 7 or 8 pleading with her to stop hitting me for something I'd done and then she left the room.

I think there are some parents who shouldn't be able to use physical punishment ever, for the reason that they can't stop once they start. My mom was one of them.


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## Eustacia (May 11, 2004)

I have posted this before - I was never spanked as a child and the more I learn about spankings the more I feel I should call my parents everyday and thank them. Everyone I know who was spanked as a child remembers it clearly (even if they were only spanked once - like my dh). My parent's had the usual busy gig of 4 kids, house, jobs, pets, etc. and I am grateful that they never once struck us.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tboroson*
I'm trying to get a feeling for whether or not there is any evidence of it's effectiveness

I'm wondering the same about spanking.....

I did not vote because my answer is not represented in the polls. I was not spanked often, but completely randomly and dependent on the parent's mood. Parental exhaustion=spanking.


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tboroson*

The only net positive I learned about spanking is that if it's used very judiciously it will teach a lesson Really Fast.

and in my opinion, that lesson is, "might makes right"

i didn't aswer the poll b/c none of the answers fit. i was spanked several times on a totally arbitrary basis. I learned nothing from it except that getting hit hurts, and getting hit in front of other people is humiliating. somehow I think I could have learned those things without direct experience.


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## kate-astrophe (Jan 26, 2004)

I voted "Yes, they used it as a primary discipline tool even when other methods may have been effective. I think it was too harsh to justify what I learned from it" but in reality my vote would be a combination of 2 and 3. My mom only used it for serious offenses and in a very controlled way. But I think other methods would have worked just as well without creating so much resentment.

When I ask my mom about spanking, she says "you don't know what it's like to deal with a child as difficult as you were". She claims she tried everything, and that spanking was effective for controlling my behavior. It's true that I'm not in her shoes, my dd is not "spririted" and so far I haven't had any trouble disciplining her. But I can't see myself using spanking as a tool the way she did. I remember too well how it felt.

-Kate


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

I was spanked a couple of times when my behavior was pretty extreme. It was a swat on the clothed fanny, and it didn't actually hurt so much as it embarrassed me. It made a point. I don't feel like I suffered because of it.

That said, I don't do it with my kids because I think that there are better ways.


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## WonderWild (May 13, 2004)

I was hit a lot. I say hit instead of spanked because it rarely ever happened just on my butt where a spanking usually occurs. She lost it on me quite a few times. Definately weekly if not daily. A lot of bad stuff happened. She had no patience. I have vowed to never do that to my DS and I will keep my vow.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tboroson*
Further, in general I was *far* more influenced by my father's approval or disapproval than I was by fear (my mother was a dishrag, her approval was pretty meaningless to me).

could you explain a bit more about your mom being a dishrag? i fear that i might turn out to be that way with my son. im at a loss as to how to parent properly... what my instinct tell me is to do exactly the opposite of my parents... which means express love, never hit, pay attention. im fearful of showing disapproval because i dont want to end up like them, and im scared if i let a little in ill let it all in. im also curious if you know whether or not your own mother was abused.


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## Colorful~Mama (Feb 20, 2003)

i was 'spanked' twice in my life from the stories - i don't remember. once was the story bout how i ran over my moms toe with my trike, i was about 4 and she swore it was one of those automatic reactions and she felt horrible. the other time was when i was 6 and stole money from her and lied about it.

when i was 13 she tried to smack me across the face - but i grabbed her wrist. it was not a good scene
thats the only time i remember any violence in our home....physically

but i will say that verbal abuse...put downs, humiliation, shaming - to me it was just as if i were being spanked/hit.


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## loving-my-babies (Apr 2, 2004)

ok, I have been struggling with this issue personally. For years I thought I was just spanked like everyone else, thinking it was the norm, until a couple conversations with my sister made us realize that it was more an abuse issue. what we thought was normal and what we thought we deserved, we didn't. and everytime I remember I feel an overwhelming feeling of hate torwards my father... i have never confronted him about this because I am just starting to deal with it. my parents hit us with anger and that, to me, is the worst and most selfish way to discipline. I obviously don't and never will spank. ever.-


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

My mother hit my brother more then me, he was very "rebellious" but I certainly got my fair share. She would use whatever she could get her hands on, shoes, brushes spoons you name it. She mainly pulled my hair though, and now that I have my own kids I could not even imagine being that mad that I would do that too them. My oldest gets the most hurt expression when I raise my voice God only knows what he would be feeling if I pulled his hair they was she pulled mine, she actually laughs when she recounts how she pulled it .......sick.

We were also verbally abused. Told we were stupid, not good enough and if I got told one more time to SHUT UP I think I would kill them. As an adult I turned to my dad once after he told me to shut up ( and it's not even so much the shut up part but the WAY it was said to me like I was a worthless piece of crap) and said " NO you SHUT the F*$K UP! Don't you EVER tell me to shut up again! Got it!" Let's just say he has never said it to me again! I know this might sound extreme and terrible but after being out of the house and then with my own family I finally snapped I think because I didn't want my kids to see him treating me like that.


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## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *geekgolightly*
could you explain a bit more about your mom being a dishrag?

It's kind of long and involved... my Mother didn't discipline, except when she lashed out, usually with words. She mostly threatened "wait until your father gets home." She was inconsistant, not enforcing anything regularly but only according to her whim, mood or stress level. Her frustration threshhold was really low, and we figured out really early that we could manipulate her. She vascillated between hiding things from my father (buying us junk food and lying about it) and cowtowing to him to a degree that drove him nuts (he wanted her to be at least a little self-sufficient.) She had the television on every single waking hour - still does. It was babysitter, background noise, and escape. My mother's problems are deep-rooted, and go much farther than her parenting skills. My mother was thrown into parenting by being a drifting, directionless person brought up with blue-collar expectations who had no will to forge her own way; She didn't have kids because she wanted them or even by accident, but because she was supposed to and she didn't have the strength of personality to try to figure out any other way to live.


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tboroson*
It's kind of long and involved... my Mother didn't discipline, except when she lashed out, usually with words. She mostly threatened "wait until your father gets home." She was inconsistant, not enforcing anything regularly but only according to her whim, mood or stress level. Her frustration threshhold was really low, and we figured out really early that we could manipulate her. She vascillated between hiding things from my father (buying us junk food and lying about it) and cowtowing to him to a degree that drove him nuts (he wanted her to be at least a little self-sufficient.) She had the television on every single waking hour - still does. It was babysitter, background noise, and escape. My mother's problems are deep-rooted, and go much farther than her parenting skills. My mother was thrown into parenting by being a drifting, directionless person brought up with blue-collar expectations who had no will to forge her own way; She didn't have kids because she wanted them or even by accident, but because she was supposed to and she didn't have the strength of personality to try to figure out any other way to live.

wow, ok. i dont think im like that or will be like that, but i know someone who is and i guess the result of the way she is raising her children will be some resentment or at least a lack of respect for her. which is too bad, because she loves her kids, but she is profoundly depressed and parents almost exactly as you describe.










thank you for responding.


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## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:

I was spanked, but only for serious offenses, but I don't think I learned anything constructive from it
That's me, too. Although unlike Bippity, I didn't try to get my sister (younger than me) spanked. In fact, once she got spanked for biting me in the back. It hurt like heck, and I was really mad, so I went and told our dad. I wanted her to get in trouble, but when our dad spanked her, I went outside and cried. I'm kind of teary now, just writing this! I have a wonderful dad who rarely spanked, but it was not a good parenting choice. I respect that my parents did the best they knew how -- I know they didn't like spanking, but probably felt that they had to "for our own good."


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## Rhonwyn (Apr 16, 2002)

I was spanked as a child. Often when my parents became so angry at my annoying behavior. It wasn't the primary form of discipline and it wasn't reserved for huge mistakes. I can remember my brother and I bugging the crap out of my mom and her getting so angry that she chased us through the house with a switch. We would hide until she cooled down. I don't think the spanking was effective nor did I then or now view it as abusive (though it sounds that way from the description!). Spanking was always done in anger when my parents had reached their limit and it didn't happen often. I have good relationship with my Mom and Dad now so it didn't effect me long term.

My family (dh, me and 2 kids) does not hit. That is what we tell the kids. We don't hit. That means no spanking and no hitting anyone else. It never made sense to me when parents spanked and then told their kids not to hit.


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## melixxa (May 20, 2003)

I'm still mad and indignant about being spanked as a child, and that was 30 years ago! My mom also washed my mouth out with soap or made me brush my teeth with soap for "backtalk" infractions.

I have vowed never to physically discipline my boy. I know that it only made me *more* resentful and so riled up that I wanted to find ways to "get back" at my mom. My partner, OTOH, was spanked for serious infractions and he now feels that spanking is inevitable/necessary in some situations (i.e. for life-threatening scenarios/vital lessons such as a child running into the street). He always tells the story of how he was playing with gasoline and matches in the garage and he "needed to be spanked," his dad did the right thing by spanking, it could have saved the lives of everyone in his family, etc.

I'm not convinced.

Thank god our baby is still only 10 months old. I'm hoping to win DP over completely to my view before this becomes an issue that affects us personally.

ANYWAY. I just wanted to say that my college boyfriend was a kid who was never spanked. And as a boyfriend, he was god's gift to womankind on earth, believe me. You could not find a sweeter, gentler guy. He is extremely creative and bright (an architect and musician) and throws great parties to boot. He has many close female friends (though he has no sisters) and many close male friends as well. We are still good friends ourselves, though we broke up, what, 8 million years ago.

What do you think - the poster child for gentle discipline????


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## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:

Thank god our baby is still only 10 months old. I'm hoping to win DP over completely to my view before this becomes an issue that affects us personally.
I used to think the way your dp did before I had kids. I was persuaded by examples of how to parent without spanking, so that I could see that spanking was unneccessary. I bet you would have more luck convincing him if you can give him a concrete "what to do" in a situation like he is describing. He probably won't be persuaded with a negative arguement (i.e. why *not* to spank) alone. It might help him if you can also give a positive argument (i.e. here's what would work as well or better). I wouldn't bring your ex-boyfreind into it though -- that could really backfire! :LOL (He does sound great!) Anyway, you could use his child-hood experience with the matches as an example. Just an idea -- good luck convincing him!


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## Leatherette (Mar 4, 2003)

I was spanked only occasionally, but I don't feel I learned anything from it. I think it was just my parents reached the end of their rope those times.

L.


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## melixxa (May 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *luv my 2 sweeties*
I wouldn't bring your ex-boyfreind into it though -- that could really backfire! :LOL (He does sound great!) Anyway, you could use his child-hood experience with the matches as an example. Just an idea -- good luck convincing him!

Nooooo, I don't think I'll be mentioning the ex!

You're right, though - I really do need to start getting my ducks in a row because it's already clear that simply arguing "I just think it's wrong!" is not going to work. Not that he won't go with what I feel very strongly about. I know he will. He signed on for a planned homebirth, for instance, despite being very scared of the idea and feeling that we would be much safer in the hospital. In the end, though, his thinking had completely changed and he came to believe that it was best - for me, for us, for the baby.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't want him to simply "give in" to me; I want him, too, to come to believe in GD as a way of life as I do and be committed to raising our boy that way.


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## chanibell (Sep 25, 2002)

My parents beat the heck out of me growing up. My dad was from the south and def. from the old school where you "spare the rod" type of mentality.I've only met maybe a handful of people that were never spanked as children. My aunt who was never spanked,but believes in spanking ( can't figure that one out) a friend from HS whose parents were both teachers, and another friend who believes in GD. I don't have children yet. My husband believes in spanking as he was spanked as a child and says," All my friends were spanked,we came out ok". I don't want to spank my kids/put soap in their mouths etc. I hope by the time I'm ready to have children,I will have learned alot from this board


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Ack, really tough subject for me. I don't remember my mother hitting/spanking but my step father hit a lot. Not spanked, hit. He even picked me up and threw me across the room (knocked the wind out of me and I couldn't breathe!). I won't even get into the sexual abuse here.
Because of his hitting, etc, I vowed never to even spank my child.

It saddens me to say that the other day, I COMPLETELY lost my cool and smacked my ds's hand 3 times in a row. I was horrified at what I had done and my ds was shocked. I was completely crushed and am still feeling like I am a failure because of it.
I've been easily aggitated this week because my ds has been making this AWFUL whining sound effect (he does it for trucks, cars, trains and elephants). He does this sound CONSTANTLY throughout the day and it has started making my ears bleed. lol. It goes right through me. I've tried so many things to get him to try to use words instead of the sound something makes but he won't stop it. I've even tried ignoring it. Nothing works.

So, if anyone has any gentle discipline advice on this, I'd welcome it!
I do not want my ds to think it's ok to hit. To me, that is what spanking teaches.

ok, i need sleep.
Blessings,
Liz


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Gosh

I had a hard time voting. Yes I was spanked. But neither choice really fit.

I know it didn't harm me. I don't remember being spanked a lot. I also got my mouth washed out with soap. That doesn't bother me now.

I don't really agree with the fact that they spanked me. But I'm in no way shape or form traumatized or worse for it.


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

Quote:

I was spanked, but only for serious offenses, but I don't think I learned anything constructive from it - unless learning how to be a good liar counts. I was a GREAT liar! I can't tell you how proud I used to feel when my brother got spanked for something I did! I used to secretly smile & say to myself, Geez i'm a good liar - I'm not like those others, I CAN keep my stories straight (& I did)!
Yup. All except the part about only being spanked for serious offenses. I was spanked for just about every offense. I was spanked or hit until I was a teenager and I finally threatened to call the police.

I also learned how not to get caught. I was an obsitnate kid anyway. I know now that I was a spirit child, very determined and persistant. If I wanted to do something, I didn't consider punishment, I merely made sure I wouldn't get caught. If I did get caught and punished, I didn't really care. After all, I'd still done what I wanted to do. Spanking did nothing to teach me about making decisions based on real world consequences and right or wrong.

Quote:

When I ask my mom about spanking, she says "you don't know what it's like to deal with a child as difficult as you were".
That made me so angry to read! I want to give your mom a piece of my mind! *grrr* My mom also tells me how "awful" I was. I should say, she USED to tell me until DH told her it offended him to hear his wife talked about that way. Then, she came to me complaining and saying, "I'm not saying _you're_ awful...yada yada yada." I told her that I was offeneded. We talked about spirited children and she can see the problem w/ negative labels now...to a degree anyway. If your mom would be receptive to it, maybe she could read Raising Your Spirited Child.

I have struggled so hard w/ the legacy of spanking and harsh discipline from my childhood. I vowed to never spank or yell at my child in anger, but I have smacked her hand on 2 occassions and yelled at her several times. It tears me up to have done these things. It's so hard b/c my mom was/is a VERY poor model for dealing w/ frustration. When my emotional reserves are low and DD is challenging me, I have to fight like hell not to lose it w/ her. I wonder what it would be like if I'd been GD'd as a child.

I don't believe that spanking is EVER EVER EVER appropriate, no matter how "serious" the situation. It's simply not acceptable to me. I know that a spanking can happen in the heat of the moment, and I can't bash a parent for losing it. Especially b/c I think the parents who spank like that were most likely spanked themselves and it's almost a knee jerk reaction. But that doesn't make it okay. KWIM?


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## NinaBruja (Jan 19, 2004)

i was abused...
my family refers to it as 'just spanking' but i know damn well that spanking does not include television cables and wire hangers.
i was beaten everyday until i started fighting back.
i will not under any circumstances whatsoever hit, slap or spank my child(or anyone elses) in any way. my experiences still burn too bright for me to even condone anyone else in 'something as minor as slapping a hand'.
i also agree that spanking creates good liars...
it also didnt help me to know why i should not hit my little sister...


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## sagewinna (Nov 19, 2001)

I didn't see one that applied to me... I was spanked only on serious occassions, but feel they could have been just as/ more effective with other methods.


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## kate-astrophe (Jan 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NoraB*
That made me so angry to read! I want to give your mom a piece of my mind! *grrr* My mom also tells me how "awful" I was....We talked about spirited children and she can see the problem w/ negative labels now...to a degree anyway. If your mom would be receptive to it, maybe she could read Raising Your Spirited Child.

For years I was angry about being labelled as "difficult". When I became a mother, I began to understand a little more where she was coming from, and through watching the way I parent my daughter, my mom has come to understand that she didn't create my spiritedness by giving into my "demands" to be held, nursed, ect. She's a lot less defensive about her parenting decisions now. She would probably enjoy the book.

-Kate


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## luckylady (Jul 9, 2003)

I mwas beat by brushes, paddles, wodden spoons, boards with holes drilled in them, and my moms favorite - pick a switch from a tree. She was also verbally abusive. I will not hit my child. I disctinctly remember this parrot thing that hung in our dining room. I swore when I was as tall as the parrot I was going to hit my mother back. I grew. She popped me one day and I hit her back. I was 15. She was so shocked her jaw dropped. I said you will NEVER hit me again. She grabbed a knife and said neither will you. She never did. I ran away from home and lived on the streets for 2 years after that.

My DH is like Melixxa's EBF - he was never spanked as a child and is the most mellow, patient and loving person. He is also very creative - he's an artist.

As for historical perspective - "When children are beaten, pain or fear frequently have the result of which it is not pleasant to speak and which are likely subsequently to be a source of shame, shame which unnerves and depresses the mind and leads the child to shun the light of day and loathe the light... I will spend no longer time on this matter. We know enough about it already."
Quintilian c. 35-95 A.D., Institutes of Oratory, Ancient Rome

It seems we have learned nothing in 2000 years.


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## hippiemom2 (Oct 8, 2002)

I wasn't sure if I wanted to post here but I shouldn't feel so damn ashamed. Even after all these years, it is still really difficult to discuss. I was abused and so were all of my siblings. It was really bad and we were at the mercy of a woman who was un-balanced and had massive rage control issues. It didn't stop until we had it out in the kitchen one night. I vowed no one will ever hit me again. NO ONE! I too ran away and lived on the streets for a little while. I had a huge drug problem by a very early age and I think the physical abuse was at the root cause of my behaviors.

I have zero contact with anyone in my family. I have a great relationship with my MIL and that has taught me a lot about what a mom is supposed to be. It is rough when I have to explain that I don't have any contact with my family. It definitely is something that I rarely talk about. I try just leaving it in the past and move on with my life.

I don't spank my kids although I have threatened.







I just know that I can't do it to them, so I found a better way. I use the 123 magic system and modified it to fit my family and it has worked great. My dh on the other hand threatens (and carries it out sometimes) and it really disturbes me. I have tried to explain how I feel but I don't think he really gets it. When I hear that tone in his voice, my entire body tenses up, anticipating the blow that is about to come. I hate that feeling. I just wish he would use the 123 system or find something else that works. I don't get him sometimes. He wasn't spanked as a kid from his mom, but his dad used spankings for everything.

Dh still complains that the kids just don't listen to him. He doesn't get it. I wish there was a father friendly book on discipline that was written by other dads and wasn't extremely long. Anyone have any ideas? I know if I try and give him a book that is a 100+ pages he wouldn't read it.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

I was spanked.

I was abused physically, verbally and emotionally.

It was the primary use of punishment.

I was beaten until the day I left at the age of twenty-three.

I made sure I had a good education, a job and a good life to move on to when I left.

I still had my pride.

I knew no one on the outside of my home would help me, so I had to help myself.

I eloped with my DH that same day and I have never regretted it.

When DH died, I felt as if life were beating up on me again.

Neverending torture.


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## hunnybumm (Nov 1, 2003)

I answered Yes, but I didn't learn anything from it and thought that other wasy would have worked better. But I was spanked at my moms house, but not at my dads house. At my moms house I never listened and acted out, at my dads house my dad said jump, I asked how high. So in just my life I feel spanking doesn't work, other methods work better.


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## Earthy Mama (Jun 4, 2004)

Our house was more or less controlled by fear growing up. I was always such a good kid, so to this day I don't understand why I got spanked (with a belt), which as I now think about it IS abuse, but I didn't vote for abuse. I made good grades, and was always just good. My brothers, on the other hand were a little wilder. But, I got blamed for everything they did, because I was the oldest, and I should have done something about it. I got punished for what they did. That is majorly messed up. And I can never remember my mom being around. All though, she was around, all the time. As I right this I am starting to realize what a sucky childhood I had, and I am amazed how normal(well not normal, but balanced) I have turned out. God, I see my beautiful dd's and could never lay a hand on them. My 5 yr old learns so much better if I explain why rules are in place, why things are right and wrong, because she genuinely wants to be a good person. Anyway, no spankings!!


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## shanleysmama (Mar 9, 2002)

I voted 'been spanked but there could have been other methods". I wasn't spanked a lot, but when my Dad spanked us (Mom never did - she was "wait til your Dad gets home") he used a belt and we danced in a circle around him to get away. He smacked me across the face when I was 13 because he thought I lied about something or was talking back, I can't remember. Anyway, just thinking about the few times I was spanked makes me very, very angry. I have an older sister who feels she was abused due to one spanking incident and still has issues over this, yet she paddled her kids with a wooden spoon.
I don't think being spanked taught me anything valuable, only maybe not do something out of fear of physical harm - not learning really *why* a particular act may be wrong/bad. We got spanked for "acting up" or "giving my mom a hard time" kind of things, but overall we were all pretty good kids and I would definitely prefer to have not been spanked AT ALL because it just left me with many negative feelings.
DH got spanked a lot, he thinks it's a good discipline tool, but I point out to him his wild teenage years and tell him "all that spanking you got when you were little didn't work, did it????"

Melanie


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## UrbanPlanter (Nov 14, 2003)

I remember being spanked with a paddle whenever my mom and dad came home from an evening out and we were not in bed. What they didn't know is that we were so excited to see them come home and then they put the fear in us and spanked us and it made me so sad that I couldn't be happy that my mom and dad were back.


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## wendyk (Feb 9, 2004)

I voted that I was spanked but there could have been better methods. I think the most profound thing it taught me was how to lie to avoid getting caught. I took pride in being able to lie with a completely believable expression on my face. I even carried it so far as to cheat on assignments and tests at school- but only when I felt it was really justified. Wonder where I learned that?!

My parents also did many good things and I don't feel I was abused. To say that I was minimizes those that truly are. I think my parents just ascribed to strongly to a warped religious belief that spanking was necessary. I have never really had a discussion about it with my mom (my dad is no longer alive). The thought of hitting a child sickens me. I don't want to hear about the times I was spanked as a child. The times I remember are bad enough. Even worse are the kids I took care of as a pediatric ICU nurse that had the shit beat out of them in the name of discipline. I often had more peace about it when they died- I knew that where their spirit went was a far better place than where they had been.

Nothing like putting it in writing to show you just how disturbed you are on the matter.


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## indiegirl (Apr 15, 2002)

This thread makes me want to cry. So much pain.

I was both spanked and abused by different people in my life. I have a temper and when I get frustrated I want to lash out physically but don't because I do not know how to differentiate between spanking and abusing, in my mind.

I swore I'd never do that to my children and, for the most part, I haven't. I say "for the most part" because for a brief time in dd1's 2-3 age span she was out of control and we tried everything--come to find out she is hearing impaired and was lashing out in frustration. Physical punishment never worked so we stopped. A year later, dd1 is so amazing it takes my breath away.

Thank you for sharing your stories everyone. Applejuice, my heart esp. goes out to you.

Jesse


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## Yarnia (Aug 29, 2003)

I didn't vote because there was no option for rarely spanked and it was not effective.
I am sure I was spanked, I remember the threat being there - but frankly I don't remember any actual spankings. Sounds terrible, but I remember my Dad taking off his belt and "popping" it - then I remember we would all scatter - and maybe catch it on the rear - but I don't remember getting pnned down and beat.
But, I was young and probably forgot. I am sure my brothers remember vividly!
That said, it was done in anger and was not in my opinion an effective tool.

My mom was a "popper" as well, with her hand which makes me very sad now. They didn't know any better but still....you gotta wonder if things would be different now relationship wise. We get along fine but aren't close really like some kids and their parents.


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## chanibell (Sep 25, 2002)

I was wondering if there are other women on the boards who don't speak to their parents b/c of verbal/physical abuse they experienced as a child. My dad's second wife ( who raised me until I was 7-18) was an alcoholic and very verbally abusive. She once tried to strangle me,b/c I told her I didn't want to eat dinner at the dinner table ( of course she was drunk). My dad had to pull her off me and she was arrested. That was the worst year of my life. I didn't go to my high school graduation and was in limbo until I just couldn't live there and moved out and never returned. I didn't see this "mother" again for 9 years. I had even gotten married and she's never met my husband. I don't think she deserves to meet him. She wonders why I don't call her,well could it be b/c she tried to strangle me? Or try and slap me around? I had a math learning disorder that was undiagnosed. When I brought home a "D" in math, I was punished with a spanking, a lecture and had to go pick rocks in the yard. Did I mention that the rest of my grades were A's and B's and that year I *won* the science fair?? Instead that summer I spent doing math workbooks with of course no help from my parents. Their methods were not to help me,but to humiliate me. I found the answers ( by the liquer cabnet of course) and copied them down







Hitting your kids's makes them learn to lie,lack self confidence and ooops I forgot, it also makes kids have slippery fingers in the bathroom when they "accidentally" drop your toothbrush in the toilet


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## BohoMama (Jun 26, 2003)

when i was 13 she tried to smack me across the face - but i grabbed her wrist. it was not a good scene
thats the only time i remember any violence in our home....physically

Other Mamas here have written my story and my reasons for not voting in the poll. I was spanked, slapped or yanked by the arm sporadically, mostly by my mother. Sometimes sort of related to the "severity" of the offense, most often, I think, as a frustrated lashout. I remember the feelings of rage, humiliation, and injustice, and a burning-hot desire for revenge that quickly ebbed away - but I don't think there was really any lasting damage done.

The quote above illustrates something that happened to me. I was about 12 or 13 and I had said something rude (I don't remember what) to my mother. She hauled off to smack me and I caught her arm. At that point I was almost as big as she was, and I guess we both expected that I'd soon grow taller (though I never did). We looked into each others' eyes, she puffed up red/purple and screamed at me to get out of her sight. She never hit me again. Just goes to show, the whole thing is based on the principle of "might makes right." My reason for not spanking essentially boils down to wanting our home to be a model of how people CAN and SHOULD try to get along with each other, which I hope DS will bring with him out into the big, cruel world.

Mom knows I have resolved not to be a spanking parent, and I think the decision pleases her. I have not asked her what she thinks about her own behavior. Water under the bridge, I guess. Or maybe she thinks my "spirited" DS will tempt me to whack him eventually.


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## wendyk (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chanibell*
Hitting your kids's makes them learn to lie,lack self confidence and ooops I forgot, it also makes kids have slippery fingers in the bathroom when they "accidentally" drop your toothbrush in the toilet









:LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL

Man, I wish I'd thought of that!!


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## LDSmomma6 (Oct 31, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tboroson*
I was spanked only on rare occasions, and in retrospect I deserved it the few times it happened, love my parents deeply and think I learned important lessons from it and turned into a good, happy human being.


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## Cranberry (Mar 18, 2002)

I voted _Yes, they used it as a primary discipline tool even when other methods may have been effective. I think it was too harsh to justify what I learned from it._

This is what I "learned" from it: how not to get caught the next time, how to lie convincingly, how to avoid punishment, not how to behave the way my parents wanted me to.

My parents were raised by parents who spanked them, so they thought this was how you raise kids.

I will never spank ds. It teaches that violence is OK. It teaches that if you are bigger and more powerful, it's OK to hurt those smaller and weaker to control them and their behavior.

I don't think anyone ever _*deserves*_ to be spanked. That statement really bothers me.


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## wendyk (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cranberry*
I don't think anyone ever _*deserves*_ to be spanked. That statement really bothers me.

I have to admit that it bothers me as well. "Deserve" is one of those completely subjective terms for which we each have our parameters. Does it make it more appropriate to hit if it falls within your own personal boundaries of what repercussion a behavior "deserves"? My interpretation of deserving has to do with natural and logical consequences to behaviours or misbehaviors. I can't think of any behaviors in which being hit is a natural and logical consequence.

I suppose it's easy for me to say- I only have a 16 month old.


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## Cranberry (Mar 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LDSmomma6*









Spanking makes you smile?

I have to admit that reading and participating in this thread is upsetting to me. It takes me back to my (often unhappy) childhood... maybe it'll be therapeutic for me to post on these threads!


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Well, poor LDSmomma and tboroson!

I have to say that I have no bad memories of being spanked. I was spanked. It's really not a big deal. Obviously, my parents did not beat me, abuse me etc. I feel horrible for some of you! And I am in no way trying to reason, rationalize or make small what any of you went through.

I just wanted to chime and let ldsmomma and tboroson know I understand. Everyone has their own experiences.

Lisa





























for everyone. I am so sorry for everyone's pain...


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I wish you could change it from "yes in fact I was abused" to "yes in fact I was beaten," because spanking is abuse.

Also, the OP implies that gentle discipline is a "new" thing, which is inaccurate as well.

Many people turn out okay IN SPITE OF being spanked. Never because of it.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

I was spanked very rarely. Maybe on three separate occasions? I can't remember. It was not a primary means of discipline, was used only for very serious offenses and it was never done in anger. I was sent to my room for a time and then asked to come out. One or both of my parents would calmly explain why I was being punished and I was asked if I understood. Then I was asked to lean over their knee and I was smacked on the bottom. When it was over, one or both of them would hug me, tell me they loved me and that it was over.

It was more humiliating than painful and I felt sorry that I had disappointed my parents. The spanking gave the incident a sense of finality, tho. I felt as if it was over and I was forgiven and we didn't need to think about it anymore. It was effective.

I don't feel this was abuse, per se, but I don't spank my child. I won't ever use spanking as a means of discipline either. My experience was as positive as spanking can get IMHO, but I still don't feel it's the most appropriate course of action.


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## Cranberry (Mar 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lab*
I was spanked. It's really not a big deal.

I disagree. This is becoming the _*Gentle Discipline But Spanking Can Be Good*_ forum.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbf*
I wish you could change it from "yes in fact I was abused" to "yes in fact I was beaten," because spanking is abuse.
















I agree, spanking is abuse.


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## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

Thank you, everyone, who's written here - this is an awesome discussion so far! I've thought a lot on this topic, but I guess I'm still pondering and refining my thoughts.

Looking back to my previous posts, I think that while I was honest about my mother, it wasn't a complete picture. She did and does love us, very much. She just wasn't mature or focused enough to deal with us very well and was in way over her head as a parent.

I'm interested in all the folks who say that spanking only taught them to lie and hide things. Personally, I was spanked rarely and honestly didn't live in any fear of that. I lived in fear of disappointing my father who was a pretty loving guy. I lied and hid things to avoid his disapproval just as much as ya'll might have lied to avoid a spanking. Just the thought of the look on his face when I brought home a bad report card was enough to have me in tears. In fact, I can seriously remember wishing he'd just smack me across the face and get it over with, because knowing he'd be disappointed and sad for a long time because of something I did was too horrible. It's not like he treated me morosely or anything for long periods of time. Once he'd told me how he felt, he went back to treating me just as fairly as he ever did. It was just that I knew, if it were me, I wouldn't get over such disappointment after five minutes of discussion; Therefore, he wouldn't either.


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cranberry*
Quote:
Originally Posted by lab
I was spanked. It's really not a big deal.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cranberry*
I disagree. This is becoming the _*Gentle Discipline But Spanking Can Be Good*_ forum.















I agree, spanking is abuse.


Oh gosh! I'm not advocating spanking. Instead of saying It's really no big deal I should have said It was really no big deal when they spanked me.

I am so sorry that anyone was abused or is in pain over the abuse they suffered at the hands of their parents. That is just horrible. But please don't use your yard stick to measure my life experiences. I was not abused. As a matter of fact, the idea makes me chuckle.









Ok - back to the program.







:


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## levar (Jan 28, 2002)

Excelllent Question and Topic!! I was spanked. Fairly regularly for serious offenses. My sister claims not much. Most of the difference is due to the fact that I am older and my Dad did the spanking and my parents divorsed etc. I also recall that by the time my sister was "old enough" to be spanked I was "covering" for her so she didnt get spanked and in fact at one point physically put myself between my Father and Sister so she wouldnt be hit.

Despite that, I dont really think we were physically abused. The spankings were always "do this and you will be spanked" and then I did "this" and got spanked. FYI getting a timeout for lesser offence was more likely. My parents were fairly consistent too in their punishment.

That said, I actually have only one recollection ever of *why* I was spanked. And that was admittedly the worst thing I ever did. And boy oh boy did I deserve it. We dont spank but Taylor is young and I have not come up with a good reason for it. I figure if I dont remember the *why* I was spanked then why do it. Additionally like my Mom I am not sure I "have it in me" to do the spanking.

I know that on this website I tend to be more open to corporal punishment and timeouts etc. And interestingly I think that may be because of "history" too. I hadnt ever thought of it until now but the reasoning that I nurse, carry, respond, etc does have to do with the thought that "its worked for others for eons, why not try it" and it worked for us, etc. We tryed timeouts for that reason and they work for us. The few times I have slapped Taylor it hasnt worked for us so I dont repeat it. But I will never say "never" either...


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## DesireeH (Mar 22, 2003)

I just typed this and it got erased! Grr

I voted for the yes I was spanked but it was controlled (now I cant remember what the whole thing said!)

I was NOT abused but I was spanked occasionally. I remember getting a spanking one time for dropping my 6 week old brother. I was 6 and I was not supposed to pick him up, my mom was vacuuming and I picked him anyways and tripped over the vaccuum cord and dropped him.

I remember my dad spanking me once too (RARE.....my dad was abused and he felt extreme guilt for any type of discipline) and afterward he brought me money for the ice cream truck outside to "make up for it." LOL

I love my parents to death. I never rebelled or anything, I was a good teenager, etc etc. I always knew my parents loved me and they werent just swatting my butt for the heck of it. I was always warned first too. I would have much rather had a spanking then be grounded. LOL I remember getting the option once too and I actually picked a spanking instead of being grounded from TV/playing outside or whatever it was. LOL

I am not PRO spanking or anything, I just am sharing my experience as a kid.


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

i was hit by my mother only once with a hairbrush. my father didn't have to hit me or spank me i was very afraid of him. he just looked at me and i shaped up. now my sister was once tackled to the ground with my father choking her. my mother had to pull him off........then they went to see a therapist and they put my dad on anti-depressents. my dad is my very best friend today. i never saw the above incident. i was living in Nicaragua at that time. i feel both my parents disaplined my sister and I to the best of their ability at that time.


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## sleet76 (Jun 2, 2004)

I am so sorry to hear of all these sad, horrible, and hard experiences many of you have gone through.









My spanking story is different. I could have written the exact same thing as Pumpkinhead.

I was very rarely lightly spanked by my dad on the bottom (always clothed) with an open hand. It was only after getting caught in a lie, as I remember. I would imagine it happened not much more often that once a year, and only as an older child; not a toddler, not a teen. It also was very calm and un-emotional and was followed by a hug. I didn't like getting spanked, and I really don't think my dad liked doing it at all, in fact I seem to remember him tearing up while doing it once (could be a wishful-thinking imagined childhood memory, though..). At the time, I thought it was kind-of silly, but not scary or frightening. I think they could have done other things instead of spanking me/us, but I think it did get the point across. The point I took was that I had done something that had disappointed my parents so much that they felt dad had to spank me even though he didn't want to.

I know that my experience is not the norm in the world of spanking. I was fortunate to have a wonderful childhood, and when I think of bad things from my childhood, it is hard to come up with one. I think I was much more pained by being forced to wear a dress to my 6th-grade graduation than by any spanking I got. I do not say any of this to downplay the horrid experiences that many of you have described. I am just telling my personal experience with childhood spanking.

DH and I will not be spaking our daughter or our future children.


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## fyrflymommy (Jan 20, 2003)

i was spanked as a child and i STILL have emotional issues stemming from it


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

I haven't read the other replies (yet!), I just wanted to say that none of those choices is applicable for me. I was spanked as a child, but I don't remember it and have no idea what it was for or what my feelings on the subject were, though I suspect it increased my feelings of alienation from my parents.

I don't know why I don't remember it, it really bothers me that I don't seem to remember much of my childhood.


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## Mamabug&co. (Mar 7, 2004)

Yes, I was spanked...no offense to my parents one of whom was physically abused as a child. I have alot of issues now because of this. I also have to remind myself all the time that spanking is not the way I want to disipline my children. I remember feelings of resentment, anger, and shame from spankings. Last time I got spanked was when I was dating dh. I was 18, and I had done something wrong, can't remember what. Anyway, I got a spanking for it. Dh was my boyfriend at the time. I was so sad, and I just wanted to run away with him. My mom also used to slap me alot. I hated it. I still have issues with this too. She denies ever being so abusive...I think she blocked it out of her mind. She's a great grandma though. I will eventually get over this, but its gonna take time...


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Sorry, I haven't read everyone's posts yet, but I am REALLY surprised with the poll results! I was never spanked or hit in any way. In fact, I've never been hit in my life. And I'm over 40. Boy, it's going to be some event if it ever happens!

My mom used removal of privileges, disapproval and grounding as her forms of discipline. She had 5 kids.


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

Quote:

Last time I got spanked was when I was dating dh. I was 18, and I had done something wrong, can't remember what.
Eek! That's terrible! My mom hit me for the last time when I was 17. Then I threatened to tell the police. (((HUGS)))


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## Juliacat (May 8, 2002)

I voted for the second, though it's not accurate. My parents didn't spank me that much, maybe a dozen times altogether, and it was always one swat on the clothed bottom, nothing remotely abusive. They mostly got by on threats.

Here's what I learned from being spanked:

-that it's not okay to make mistakes
-that if I make a mistake, I deserve to be hurt
-that the only way to atone for the mistakes I make is to either hurt myself or let someone else hurt me
-that I have to be perfect in order to be loved
-that the buttocks ARE, in fact, a sexually sensitive part of the human body.

I'm doing my best to unlearn these lessons. I will NEVER spank my own children. At the same time, I kind of understand why some parents do spank--because they feel they have to do SOMETHING to keep child from doing whatever it is child isn't supposed to be doing.


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

Wow. It's really disheartening to me to see how many people (30%) here, at a relatively progressive message board no less, feel that physical violence toward them as children was justified and good.


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## CortLong (Jun 4, 2003)

Yes. I voted for the third option.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blueviolet*
Wow. It's really disheartening to me to see how many people (30%) here, at a relatively progressive message board no less, feel that physical violence toward them as children was justified and good.










I think that's an unfair asuption to make! Just because we were spanked and it didn't do us any psychological damage doesn't mean we believe that physical violence towards children (myself or any other child) is justified and good! Perhaps you should go back and read some of the posts made by those of us who were spanked. Do any one them say "I currently feel that spanking is the best choice for disciplining my own children"? Most that I have read say "I was spanked, it wasn't a negative experience, but I don't intend to physically discipline my children."

For those who have not posted, but have voted, I still think that this assupmtion is more than unfair.


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## lab (Jun 11, 2003)

Thanks for the post pumpkinhead.

I'm getting a little tired of that too. Like I've already posted - Please don't use your yardstick to measure my life experiences.

I'm sorry anyone experienced abuse. It's terrible and unfair. I don't spank or hit my kids and do feel like spanking is wrong. The thing about GD is that when you use it instead of spanking, it encourages parents to spend more time with your child talking to them and working with them. How cool is that!


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

What I'm seeing is a contradiction. The assertion that having been spanked oneself was not negative, alongside the admission that spanking one's own children would be negative. I think there might be some denial and some parent-loyalty at play.


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## KingsDaughter76 (May 25, 2004)

I voted yes, and I was abused

My parents(more my mother than my father...but he did it too or just stood by and allowed her to attack me) firmly believed in "spanking" , that would involve the belt, open hand, hair pulling, spoon whacking etc. They also used yelling and screaming and insults and whatever else they could threaten us with. I was a good kid by other peoples recollections...I begged for someone to take me away from my family....when I was 15 I had decided that I was not going to get hit on anymore so I moved in with my grandmother...(she had been an abusive mother to my mom, but with me she was more mellow and it was better than nothing) I was not hit by her...but yelled at etc...but that was SOOOO much better than my parents were...I felt safer there too...I moved out on my own at 16 yrs old into my own place with a fulltime job and homeschooled myself thru the rest of school. I only have a couple of memories of good times as a child...the rest are aweful...my parents either deny the abuse or try to blame it on me...or try to make me think that it was not as bad as I recall...whatever!
I have to say that I have lots of issues from my past..I have been working on them for years and I feel I have made lots of progress..and I am a much better mother to my own children because I WILL NOT be like my parents!


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## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbf*
What I'm seeing is a contradiction. The assertion that having been spanked oneself was not negative, alongside the admission that spanking one's own children would be negative. I think there might be some denial and some parent-loyalty at play.

I don't agree... I think there is a much bigger range than just black and white here. While I think all or most folks here agree that it's more positive to not spank, I don't see why that superiority has to imply that we all must see our parent's use of spanking as black instead of gray. Personally, I see it as gray - but I shoot for better than that in my own parenting.

While my Dad spanked us occasionally, it wasn't a punishment that stands out in my mind, personally, as nasty. I would consider the cruel things my mother would say to us to be far worse. Between the two, while I don't plan to spank my kids, I'll tell you - I'd spank them before I'd say the kinds of things my mother said to us. I consider that to be far more negative and hurtful, and feel that it contributes far more to, say, my brother's low self-esteem than any spanking relates to any problem in my or my sibling's lives. I'm sure that's entirely a matter or perspective, that other people had parents who occasionally said something unthoughtful and hurtful but didn't make an science of it.

What's becoming clear from this discussion is that, while clearly everyone here agrees that gentle means of discipline are good and right, their reasons for doing so are different; And, their ranking of non-gentle means on the scale of more or less evil is highly varied.


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

I was spanked on rare occasions (I don't even remember a specific time) always open hand on a clothed rear end. I might be different here BUT I did not learn to lie, cover up, sneak, etc. I learned "Man, I'm not ever going to do THAT again!!" (whatever the offense was at the time) I never hated my parents and I was not the rebellious type.

I have swatted my kids once or twice(once out of fear after they ran out to the street) and I will never do it again KNOWING that there are better ways to get the message across.


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## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:

What I'm seeing is a contradiction. The assertion that having been spanked oneself was not negative, alongside the admission that spanking one's own children would be negative. I think there might be some denial and some parent-loyalty at play.
I don't think too many people have said that being spanked was *not* negative. Rather, I think some of us feel that spanking was an unfortunate choice our parents made, but that it was not seriously damaging to us in the long run. Depending on the circumstances, we may understand why they thought spanking was a good choice and cut them some slack for that. (Just as I hope my children will cut me some slack for whatever it is *I'm* doing now that they decide to do differently with their children. You know there's gonna be *something*!) That's different than "denial" and blind "parent-loyalty". It's being realistic. And by doing something we believe to be better with our own children, we are being forward-looking and progressive. It's often a step-by-step generational change. My maternal grandmother was physically abused, but she managed never to abuse her own children in spite of some close calls when her anger got the best of her. (She once threw a frying pan at my mother and her brother -- they were old enough to get out of the way.) My mother, in turn, did even better with us. She never had the kind of blow-ups her mother had, but she could be manipulative with our feelings, and she and my father believed in limited spanking. I'm taking it further with my kids -- no spanking, and I'm very aware of the tendancy to use that manipulation my mother taught me. I think I'll be less manipulative than she was simply because I'm trying! She was not really even aware that she was doing it, I think. There is a similar pattern of progress on my paternal side, and on dh's side. I expect our children will be better parents than we are! As many of the abused posters have demonstrated, family violence is not always a hopeless cycle. Thank goodness. It's not all black and white, as tboroson pointed out.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

I'm not saying that everyone who was spanked should believe that their parents were bad parents or anything. I just think that claiming that the spanking was completely benign (and yes, a surprising number of people have said that being spanked was not negative) is going too far the other way.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbf*
I'm not saying that everyone who was spanked should believe that their parents were bad parents or anything. I just think that claiming that the spanking was completely benign (and yes, a surprising number of people have said that being spanked was not negative) is going too far the other way.


I don't think that anyone has said that spanking was *benign*. It's not the nature of a punishment to be benign. What I personally was saying was that I was not psychologically damaged by the spankings I recieved, the way in which my parent's chose to implement them. I was not abused.

My choice not to spank my own child has very little to do with me being spanked as a child. I don't resent my parents for their methods of discipline. I just don't like how spanking a child makes me feel. (I was a nanny for a good number of years and this was the method of discipline I was instructed OVER AND OVER to use by the children's parents). I can't handle the looks of hurt and betrayal that spanking provokes in children and I couldn't bear to have my son look at me that way. I hated that, even when I was the one spanking these children (it happened maybe twice in a 4 year period) they still came to *ME* for comfort afterward. I just broke my heart. I have never spanked my son, and don't ever intend to.


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkinhead*
I was not psychologically damaged by the spankings I recieved


Quote:


Originally Posted by *pumpkinhead*
the looks of hurt and betrayal that spanking provokes in children


There seems to be a difference between the way people who have been spanked talk about their own spankings and the way they talk about other children being spanked.


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## Dovesong (Nov 30, 2001)

I was spanked - not often, and it was always explained that it was done out of love which I actually understood on some level. The spankings were very controlled, not humiliating, in front of others. The only fear was of the pain which was short-lived. It could not be characterized as abuse. I do not spank. The only time I want to is out of sheer frustration, when nothing else works, which is not a good context for spanking if there is one.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbf*
There seems to be a difference between the way people who have been spanked talk about their own spankings and the way they talk about other children being spanked.

I'm sorry, but I'm missing your point here. Could you elaborate?


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## Sustainer (Sep 26, 2002)

Well, I quoted your two different remarks above because they gave me the impression that you have a different attitude toward the fact that you were spanked yourself than you have toward the idea of spanking others.

Not just you, of course. I get the same feeling from others who say they were spanked.

"eh, no harm done"

vs.

"Of course I would never do that to anyone else!!"

Do you see what I mean?

Somehow it's wrong to spank but not wrong to be spanked.







:


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbf*
Well, I quoted your two different remarks above because they gave me the impression that you have a different attitude toward the fact that you were spanked yourself than you have toward the idea of spanking others.

Not just you, of course. I get the same feeling from others who say they were spanked.

"eh, no harm done"

vs.

"Of course I would never do that to anyone else!!"

Do you see what I mean?

Somehow it's wrong to spank but not wrong to be spanked.







:

Well, I guess in a way you are right. I don't feel that the way in which I was spanked was abusive or detrimental to my psyche, but I don't feel comfortable using is as a means of discipline. I don't believe that spanking in *all* of it's forms constitutes abuse, but I do believe there are more effective means of discipline. I, personally, don't have the stomach for it. I'm not saying 'If you do have the stomach for it, you should spank' anymore than I'd say 'use CIO if you have the stomach for it'. I don't know that this means I have two different attitudes about it...It's more of a 'when you know better, you do better'. When (and where)I was being raised, this *was* how you were supposed to discipline your child. I think my parents did a great job with the resources they had.


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

I picked "Yes - primary form of discipline". They didn't use their hands (wouldn't want to hurt themself!) favorite tool was the infamous wooden spoon (many of which got broken on me and my brother's butt), the belt (very occasionally) oh and my mother's Dr.Shcools shoe (can you say ouch?). My mother still thinks it was perfectly fine and just and is shocked that I don't spank my kids. If one of them acts up or something she'll say "Oh just give him a spanking already!"

Kitty


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## Rhonwyn (Apr 16, 2002)

Yes, in fact I was abused. 50 26.32%

Yes, they used it as a primary discipline tool even when other methods may have been effective. I think it was too harsh to justify what I learned from it. 65 34.21%

Yes, but only for serious offences and I feel it taught me important lessons about consequences and responsibility. Whether or not I'd use it now, I think they used it as an effective and controlled tool. 58 30.53%

No, and I feel they did a great job of teaching me right from wrong without it. Whether or not I follow their lead, I think they did a great job of teaching me consequences and responsibility.

14 7.37%
No, and I don't feel they did a good job of making me understand consequences or responsibility.

Nowhere did I see a choice, for yes I was spanked infrequently sometimes for serious offenses, sometimes out of anger. Was it effective? No. Was it abusive? For me, no. Will I spank my own child? No, there are better methods now than my parents had. My parents did the best they could with what they knew.

The poll was written in such a way, that you either condone spanking or you list it as abusive. I picked something, I don't really remember what but it was not really accurate for my situation or I belive, many other people's experience.


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## frand (May 8, 2004)

We were spanked -- but my mother knew she couldn't hurt us so would tell us we would be spanked when my father got home. Result -- we dreaded him coming home many days. Years later I learned that my father was beaten mercilessly as a child and he hated being told to spank us. I vividly remember one of those days that he took me to my room and told me we were just going to 'pretend' - and so he slowly clapped his hands and I 'cried' each time so that it sounded, to the rest of the house, like I was getting the worst of all- the bare-butt spanking. Weird! I think spanking and the authoritarian approach that went with it deprived both my parents and myself of finding a better way to understand each other.

One of my husband's family's favorite stories is about how my mother in law broke a spoon spanking my husband when he was about 8. When the spoon broke, she yelled, "Now look what you've done! You broke my spoon!" and hit him harder. This story was told with relish and laughter over the years and it wasn't until after I had a child that it occured to me to ask, 'what did you do that made her lose it so bad?' and he said, "I played outside in my new good shoes.'' I couldn't believe it.

The best quote I read on spanking was that, "It's a parental temper tantrum."


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## HelloKitty (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frand*
One of my husband's family's favorite stories is about how my mother in law broke a spoon spanking my husband when he was about 8. When the spoon broke, she yelled, "Now look what you've done!

Me and my brother had many a spoon broken on us, but my mother's favorite story is about the time she broke her Dr. Shcools (sp?) shoe on her best friend's son's butt. I remember it vividly. We had all gone for a nice day to the beach - my mother and her best friend, me and my brother and her friend's two children. Apparently we were being very noisy in the back (hello four kids!) and my mother couldn't deal with it so she kept telling us to shut up. Her friend's son Greg didn't obey so she threatened to pull over and spank him. Greg (never the smart one) got loud again and she pulled over took off her shoe and spanked him - breaking it in half in the process. You know how thick those things are???? I'm still shocked that her friend allowed it.


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

Quote:

The best quote I read on spanking was that, "It's a parental temper tantrum."
I like that!


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## NoraB (Dec 10, 2002)

Quote:

Me and my brother had many a spoon broken on us, but my mother's favorite story is about the time she broke her Dr. Shcools (sp?) shoe on her best friend's son's butt. I remember it vividly. We had all gone for a nice day to the beach - my mother and her best friend, me and my brother and her friend's two children. Apparently we were being very noisy in the back (hello four kids!) and my mother couldn't deal with it so she kept telling us to shut up. Her friend's son Greg didn't obey so she threatened to pull over and spank him. Greg (never the smart one) got loud again and she pulled over took off her shoe and spanked him - breaking it in half in the process. You know how thick those things are???? I'm still shocked that her friend allowed it.
OMG! That is horrible! I would have nearly killed anybody that raised a hand to my child much less violently attacked him with a shoe. At the very least I would have called the police. How horrible for you to witness that.


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HelloKitty*
Me and my brother had many a spoon broken on us

I rememeber the time my dad broke the yardstick beating my brother on the head because he spoke during dinner.


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