# Vent: friends BRAGGING about illegally turning seat ff



## OperaDiva (Jun 11, 2009)

I was at church the other day, and mentioned that DS is now in a convertible seat since he has nearly outgrown his infant seat. Well, one lady mentioned that her daughter just turned her grandbaby forward facing...TWO WEEKS before she is a year old, because she has passed the weight limit. I tried to hide my surprise and said she should really be careful about that since it's illegal. I also mentioned in a completely non-judgmental way that rf is safer, and she said in her car it never felt stable rf so she felt much more secure ff.









Second incident, a mom of a 1 yr old mentioned how small her DS has always been for his age, and another mom who just had her 7th baby said all of hers were tiny, under 20 lbs at 1 yr, but she still turned them around at 1 yr. I wasn't really involved in that conversation so I said nothing.

Since when is doing something dangerous and illegal with your child a bragging right??? It's as if ff is some sort of milestone and your child can't pass into toddlerhood without putting them in danger of internal decapitation!









I love all these ladies and their babies, and I hate that it is so normal to do something so unsafe!


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## K-Mom3 (Apr 27, 2009)

I totally understand! I was suggesting to a friend a little tip about car seat use and mentioned--y'know, all this stuff is in the manual. Her husband jumped in and said, well, we don't HAVE the manual because we got the seat used. He said it with a big grin on his face, like ha ha on you. I was floored and I'm sure I sat there with my mouth open for a few seconds. The best I could say was that you can find the manuals online and I wouldn't use a car seat if I hadn't read the manual and I didn't know the complete history.


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## April Dawn (Oct 31, 2009)

I think a lot of people do see forward facing as a milestone these days. I mentioned at a family gathering that I plan to keep my son rear facing as long as possible and I was treated like I was refusing to let him grow up - comments like "well, you can't keep him a baby forever!" I don't know how or why forward facing became a milestone!


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## mntnmom (Sep 21, 2006)

I think a lot of people don't understand *why* rf is safer. They just know it's a "baby thing", and never question the reasoning behind it. This applies to SOOO many things folks make choices about.
Full disclosure: I did put my DD (1st child) in a ff facing seat a little early because she was well over 20pds, and miserable staring at the back seat. Had I really understood the safety issue, I would have found another solution. It was less of an issue with babe #2, because he had his big sis to look at.


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## urchin_grey (Sep 26, 2006)

Oh gosh, I know. I was looking at pics on Myspace last night and ran across pics of an old friend's toddler - RF'ing in a My Ride!







I was so surprised, because this is friend from Jr. High, not an online forum friend, kwim? LOL Then I started reading the comments and someone (no one I know) said "You still have him rear facing?! I turned ____ at like 7 months!"

If wasn't already laying in bed, I would have fallen over!


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Yes! Why IS FF being treated like a milestone, ugh? I heard someone say they turned their just turned 1 year old and " it's so much fun". Seriously? Aside for the safety issue which this woman was fully aware of, what is so "fun" about having your child FF? I don't get it.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

If they realized they were celebrating their LOs having a greater chance of dying, they probably wouldn't be as happy. They think "oh my LO can see more of the world







" not "my LO is more likely to get a broken neck"


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *April Dawn* 
I think a lot of people do see forward facing as a milestone these days. I mentioned at a family gathering that I plan to keep my son rear facing as long as possible and I was treated like I was refusing to let him grow up - comments like "well, you can't keep him a baby forever!" I don't know how or why forward facing became a milestone!

To the baby forever comment I would reply "I'm not keeping him a baby forever, I'm giving him a chance to live long enough to grow up."


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## CallMeMommy (Jun 15, 2005)

I had several people comment on how my 17-mo is still rearfacing - 2 at Christmas (their kids are a month older and a month younger than my son, both had turned FF at a year) and my older sister, who told me she turned her kids at 10-11 months because they hit the weight limit. I told them all that the recommendation is now 2 years RF (and had my cousin's OB nurse wife concur







), but with the first two it was obvious they wouldn't turn them back around (oh he'll get so mad if I turn him back around!). I must just have an easygoing kid because he hardly ever cries in the car.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Yep, people think FFacing is a milestone.

They have no CLUE about crash forces, physics, nada.......I honestly think some people think the only purpose of a child seat is to keep the child out of Mom or Dad's way while driving.


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## paxye (Mar 31, 2005)

I hear you... and the same goes for getting out of a seat completely by a certain age...

I did have to turn ds#3 FF way before he was a year because of his weight and there being no seats available at the time to accommodate him but it was such a hard thing to do and we used the car a lot less for quite a while afterwards... It is so hard to see people actually choose to do that...


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## tanyam926 (May 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Latte Mama* 
Yes! Why IS FF being treated like a milestone, ugh? I heard someone say they turned their just turned 1 year old and " it's so much fun". Seriously? Aside for the safety issue which this woman was fully aware of, what is so "fun" about having your child FF? I don't get it.

W/ds1 I turned him FF at one yr (he was over 20 lbs) and it was fun bc 1) I could see him and interact w/him better while I was driving, and 2) He was a "big boy" and could legally FF, and 3) I had NO idea of the risks from reading only mainstream mags, talking to ped, etc.

Had I known the RF into toddlerhood was safer I would NEVER have done it. FWIW a lot of people need more than just one person mentioning something in order to believe it's true (in all areas and carseat safety included). If someone had mentioned it to me I would have looked into it and found more info.

Now we ERF. Dh even asked me about turning ds3 FF the other day (he's 15 months) and I just told him that RF is sooo much safer at ds3's age/weight and that like everything else I researched it up the wazoo. Since he trusts me w/this stuff he said, "Oh, okay, sounds good".

BTW, where I live I see TONS of under 1 yr olds FF, and ALL toddlers FF. If I know someone and it comes up in convo I mention the reasons we ERF.


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## Mittsy (Dec 29, 2009)

I totally get it, and it really saddens me. I hate how these parents want to force their baby to grow up, especially in such a unsafe way. My SIL brags about putting her 2yo in his car seat with his harness REALLY LOOSE because she "doesn't like all those paranoid moms who ERF and keep the harness super tight on their kids", when I try to give her information stating the child is safer that way she just yells at me to keep "my opinions" to myself.


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

The VAST majority of people do NOT realize rfing is actually safer. Without that vital piece of info I can see why people would look forward to ffing. With our small car & tall family having ds rfing is a MAJOR PIA, but we do it because we know it is safer. If I didn't know it was safer (instead thinking it was just a 'baby thing') I would definitely be excited to turn him as doing so would be easier in many ways & MUCH more comfortable for me.


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tanyam926* 
W/ds1 I turned him FF at one yr (he was over 20 lbs) and it was fun bc 1) I could see him and interact w/him better while I was driving, and 2) He was a "big boy" and could legally FF, and 3) I had NO idea of the risks from reading only mainstream mags, talking to ped, etc.

.

I guess I don't get the "fun" part of it. Maybe because as a nurse who has worked in ICU I've seen the results of many car accidents, I'd much rather keep my eyes and focus 100% on the road (not insinuating you don't). I've seen people turning their heads completely around to see little ones in the back WHILE the car is in motion, scary stuff.

So maybe that's another added benefit of ERF, no temptation to turn and look in the back







!


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lifeguard* 
The VAST majority of people do NOT realize rfing is actually safer. Without that vital piece of info I can see why people would look forward to ffing. With our small car & tall family having ds rfing is a MAJOR PIA, but we do it because we know it is safer. If I didn't know it was safer (instead thinking it was just a 'baby thing') I would definitely be excited to turn him as doing so would be easier in many ways & MUCH more comfortable for me.

I totally agree with this. Even knowing the advantages, DH still cheers that DS is getting closer to the weight limit on his seat.


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## CrunchyChristianMama (Dec 5, 2008)

I would try not to get so upset with these people. They clearly don't realize the harm in what they are doing. If it wasn't for MDC I wouldn't know to leave DD RF after she hit 12 months.

Not everyone is so fortunate to have all the research. Yes, I know the research is out there for anyone to read, but if you didn't think that it was a potential issue, why would you go research it?

I find that gently telling people that the AAP (most mainstreamers trust them) recommends 2 years rf based on new tests that were done on the effects of a crash on a toddlers spine really gets them interested.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

My son is 19 mos and still rf'ing. We purposely sought advice here and got the Graco MR65 as it should keep him rf'ing past three yrs of age if not longer. But, if I wasn't a member here I would not have known about how much safer it is to keep a child rf'ing for as long as possible.

Not everyone researches every last little thing (or even knows to research), and this kind of stuff often is learned by osmosis-my neighbor/sister/bff turned her kid around at 1 so I guess I can too.

My son is the only one I see rf'ing at daycare in his age group. When we looked at the MR65 at BrU their safety info was out of date and I pointed that out to them. But, that is where parents are going to get their info.

Frankly, the US government (DOT or NTSB) is doing a TERRIBLE job on getting this info out to people. I don't understand why there would not be more of an attempt to reach parents since this is very critical info.

I mean I was bombarded as a new parent with info about not shaking a baby, choking hazards, water hazards, dog hazards, allergic reactions, illness, SIDS...but not once did anyone mention the importance of keeping my son rf'ing as long as possible.


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## fruitfulmomma (Jun 8, 2002)

Quote:

If it wasn't for MDC I wouldn't know to leave DD RF after she hit 12 months.

Quote:

I mean I was bombarded as a new parent with info about not shaking a baby, choking hazards, water hazards, dog hazards, allergic reactions, illness, SIDS...but not once did anyone mention the importance of keeping my son rf'ing as long as possible.








to both of these. I have four other children and the first time I heard all this was after my fifth was born and I was hanging out around here a lot more often.


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## bjerme (Nov 13, 2009)

I recently read a pretty popular blog of a preemie. He is now 15 months old, but only 16 pounds.. and his mother was bragging about him being a "big boy" and forward facing. It's very sad.


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## Steph152 (May 22, 2009)

I'm with you. I have a facebook "friend" who recently posted photos of her SEVEN month old in his new big boy, FF, car seat. I don't know what to say, if anything, since we aren't close. It's a convertible seat, so the instructions told her that installing it in the RF position was the only safe thing to do. Should I tell her something she must already know?


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

To friends and family I've started saying something like, "Oh no!! You didn't hear?? The AAP is now recommending children remain rear facing to the max weight limit of their seats or at least 2 because they are 500% more likely to DIE if they are forward facing!" Of course, my friends all know that I am "the car seat nazi" and don't tell me anything they know I won't like!

I am in the fortunate position to work with parents nearly daily on their car seat installs, and I have many, many, many more success than failures on this issue. I turn kids back rear facing all the time. So many parents just simply don't know the risks, and see it is a milestone. I've had parents literally CRY when they realize the risk they are taking. I just wish more pediatricians would educate parents about this, and earlier on, like at 6 months. I tell parents when they come in to get there infant seats installed, "Just FYI, this is the recommendation now, and this is why. Take some time over the next year to educate yourself, so you can make the safest choice for your child."


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## nikkimarie3 (Jan 1, 2010)

My son was a preemie and has a growth disorder so at 3 1/2 and 18 pounds, he is still rear-facing. My mom mentions how sad she is about that every time we see her. I always tell her she would be more sad at his funeral, and since he never ff, he doesn't know the difference!


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## TXmom2 (Sep 20, 2009)

I think it comes down to education.
Spread the word as much as possible and hope that parents will at least research it and make a safer choice. Of course, you'll still have those that turn their kids because they want them to be "big kids" but hopefully more will realize it can be a deadly choice to turn kids around so soon.

I still see children (@2) climbing around in cars while on the road...breaks my heart everytime but what can you do?


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## Latte Mama (Aug 25, 2009)

The thing is, there are plenty of parents who DO know that ERF is safest and still choose to FF. And they can't even give a good reason WHY but just get defensive. I don't get it. This is the one parenting desicision serious enough to be life altering so why doesn't everyone make the safest choice?


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## Anglyn (Oct 25, 2004)

I can answer that. Maybe. Before I knew the REAL reason for rf, I just assumed it was because they couldn't sit up yet, so they have to use the infact carriers and lay down. My first child struggled against laying down and if they have rf seats that sat upright back then, (18 years ago) I didn't know it. I just knew he hated having to lay down and so at 20lbs I turned him around. It wasn't the ff I was after, it was the sitting upright and car rides went from screaming fits to peaceful enjoyable outings. I also didnt realize it was 20lbs AND one year and turned him at six months, thinking it was OR. I just didn't know. No where or from no one did I ever hear that rf is SAFER until much, much later. My youngest ds stayed rf til he was two! Because when you know better, you do better. But my youngest went ff at six months, I honestly thought the rf was only cuz babies can't sit and the "big kid" or toddler seats just didnt start til 20lbs. Never thought about it, at all. My xh was the one who read the manual and installed so if there was anything in there about safety of rf vs. ff, he probably never saw it, being focused on the installation.

I think most people just don't know better. I was floored when I found out. Felt guilty! I also bought used seats and have an old shield booster. Threw those all out and bought three brand new seats as soon as I had all the facts, and my then one year old who had been ff for all of one week went right back to rf.


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## StoriesInTheSoil (May 8, 2008)

I have encountered this phenomenon and have chosen to ignore it at this time. I just feel like it is better for my sanity that way. I think that the majority of people that I've attempted to talk to about car seats simply don't want to hear it.

I also had someone tell me that while she didn't know much about the dangers of FFing, she DID know that it is "like REALLY REALLY SUPER dangerous for their legs to touch the vehicle seat when they are rearfacing!" I mentioned that I'd rather my child break a leg than his neck and she left the room


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## Anglyn (Oct 25, 2004)

My step sister has her three year old riding in a regular seatbelt. Because "he's almost forty pounds anyway". She tried to tell me they don't make car seats for kids heavier than 40 lbs. Yeah, really, cuz the ones in my car are good up to 100. She just looked at me and insisted he doesn't need it cuz he's almost forty pounds and all those car seats stop at 40lbs. No, what did I JUST say? After the fourth time she repeated the same exact line it was obvious she wasn't listening to me AT ALL. I told her it's illegal and she'll get a ticket, she still repeated the above excuse. I guess she thinks the law won't apply to her.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anglyn* 
My step sister has her three year old riding in a regular seatbelt. Because "he's almost forty pounds anyway". She tried to tell me they don't make car seats for kids heavier than 40 lbs. Yeah, really, cuz the ones in my car are good up to 100. She just looked at me and insisted he doesn't need it cuz he's almost forty pounds and all those car seats stop at 40lbs. No, what did I JUST say? After the fourth time she repeated the same exact line it was obvious she wasn't listening to me AT ALL. I told her it's illegal and she'll get a ticket, she still repeated the above excuse. I guess she thinks the law won't apply to her.

Well, she is right in that there are no seats on the market that harness to 100 lbs


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## purplevega (Apr 17, 2005)

People don't get it.....


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Anglyn* 
My step sister has her three year old riding in a regular seatbelt. Because "he's almost forty pounds anyway". She tried to tell me they don't make car seats for kids heavier than 40 lbs. Yeah, really, cuz the ones in my car are good up to 100. She just looked at me and insisted he doesn't need it cuz he's almost forty pounds and all those car seats stop at 40lbs. No, what did I JUST say? After the fourth time she repeated the same exact line it was obvious she wasn't listening to me AT ALL. I told her it's illegal and she'll get a ticket, she still repeated the above excuse. *I guess she thinks the law won't apply to her*.

The sad thing is, it's the laws of physics that could really matter in this situation and they definately apply to everyone







It's not a state law that makes her child unsafe in this situation, it just IS.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

I think it has to do with the veil covering infant/child accidents.

Ask anyone..."Have you seen an infant in the ER after an accident?" NOPE

Well now we have youtube so spam the heck out of the myspace/facebook friends lol. That's what I did when I first learned about this issue and it resulted in two kids being turned around, two pregger mamas choosing to ERF and a ton of fires. lol The fires were worth it.

I mean...there's tons of memorial videos and safety tutorials on youtube. I was watching one about a little boy...18 months IIRC who was in an accident and his neck was broken. They show him trying to color with a huge neck brace drilled into his skull.

If that won't reach the heart of a mama than you're better off cutting loose.


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## ~RememberToForget~ (Aug 21, 2009)

I can remember one of my friends having her baby already FF..He was i believe 6 months old or less!


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