# Serious Discipline issues with 5 1/2 year old daughter



## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

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## BoringTales (Aug 1, 2006)

Some kids just have impulse control issues. They just don't think about the consequences before they do something. There's also the issue that she may have just been trying to get your husband's attention. If he was sitting RIGHT next to her, with no tv on, but still didn't see, hear, or realize she was cutting a huge hole in the couch, I imagine she could've been doing lots of other things first to try and get Daddy to see her, play with her, etc.

What WAS he doing while she was doing this?


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

This is a very good question!!! I asked it myself.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

I think I'd be more mad at my DH in that situation.

I don't really think what she did was scary or completely abnormal. I definitely wouldnt have threatened an eye for an eye (next time I'll cut your bear) I know you wouldnt do that, but I would not have said that. You probably said it out of anger, and if thats the case you should go back to her and let her know you were mad but you would never do that because its not okay to destroy other people's propertly. The idea of this threat towards a child is a bit disturbing to me. A child cutting fabric does not disturb me, but my mom went crazy and cut open all the pillows in her house once, and I wasnt even there ad it thoroughly freaked me out to the point if she lived in my state I would have baker acted her. It made me afraid for my younger siblings who still live there...

I would try to fix the cushion myself and turn the cushion over, if that is a possibility. I would keep telling myself that people are more important then things if it wasn't a possibility.

I would look to see what may have caused this behavior, I would keep knives and scissors somewhere inaccessable to the child, I would talk to my husband about it. I would do some activities that allowed for supervised cutting. I would get a few professional opinions on whether or not its neurological as well.


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## babsbob (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Treasuremapper* 
This is a very good question!!! I asked it myself.

He was eating corn dogs!!! In fact, when I got downstairs and saw the hole, he was sitting there still, silently eating corn dogs. To clarify, though, he was on a different sofa that is right next to the the sofa she was cutting. About four feet away... facing the sofa she cut.

I'm sorry - but his made me laugh so hard!!!! OMG - guys are so clueless!
I am always amazed at the things my kids do when my DH or brother are "watching" them.

It is possible she just wanted to see what she could get away with until he noticed. I don't really know that much about behavioral issues though and my DD is not that old yet. I am still amazed at the things she does at age 4 though. She hasn't cut any furniture, but she does make some bad decisions sometimes.
Did she tell you why she wanted to cut the couch? Can you patch it and flip the cushion over or get a slip cover?


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## churndash (Mar 25, 2009)

I don't think your daughter is weird or abnormal.

I do think you should take the scissor away and not give them back for a very long time. If your older child needs them for a project, fine, get them out, supervise their use, and put them away again.

No child "needs" 24 hour unfettered access to scissors.

If your younger daughter asks why, explain that she has not shown she can use them responsibly.

Then I would suggest telling your husband to pay more attention to what his daughter is doing.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I think what you daughter did is completely normal. She was either seeing if daddy would notice her or she was exploring how sissors cut fabric. Either way, completely normal. Not good for fabric, but not worthy of a ped. visit by any means. Unless, of course, there are other issues as you hinted.

I would explain that this was unacceptible. I might explain that the money it will take to fix couch will mean no whatever in the budget will be impacted.

Obviously I would make sure sissors and such were out of her reach for the foreseeable future, and that when she had sissors she had a responsible alert adult supervising her.

I would be furious at your DH much more so than your child.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

ROFL sorry about the sofa but take a deep breath! That's totally normal!

Scissors are hidden away in our house. You have to ask to get them out, along with the paint, glue, razor blades, tape, etc.







I could explain why for each item but that would take pages.

She wasn't being entertained. She got bored. She sacrificed the sofa.

I'm sure you don't mean it, but IMO threatening to cut her bear or bed as retribution sounds as bad as physical punishment.







IDK something just sounds off about that and I wouldn't recommend future interaction of that style.


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Oh gosh, I know you are right about threatening to cut her bear.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

My suggestion would be to forget the sofa, and ladle on oodles and oodles of attention. Get dh to do the same. Fill her up with attention.

Then take practical measures. Remove scissors, and anything else that might do damage.

Honestly at that age I recall sometimes starting doing something that felt pleasing, and continuing because it was, well, interesting. My sister punched holes with the end of a toothbrush all over an entire bathroom wall - it was a sort of spongy weird tile - just because it was interesting and pleasing. She says that once she punched one hole, it was so interesting, she just kept going, because it fascinated her. It was only when my mum came in and screamed that she re-entered the real world and realized what she'd done.

Maybe your dd did it for attention, or maybe she just did it becuase the scissors were there, the couch was there, and it was fun to do. Like some kids cut their hair, or clothing, or toys, or whatever.

Unless there are really other issues, I'd tend to stomp my feet in private, then remember that this is one of those funny stories you'll tell in years to come. In our house, my kids love to hear about when dd #1 chalked blue parallel lines across the entire (huge) room on a white carpet, or when dds painted the (white, long haired) dog, or when ds painted the entire kitchen with a (huge, catering sized) tub of cream cheese..........

All infuriating, but over time, they do become less so, and eventually, you find yourself laughing along with the kids as you tell the story.


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## Materfamilias (Feb 22, 2008)

Your daughter seems fine to me. It seems like a supervision problem with your DH. I'd be a little worried about leaving the kids with him.


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## joy_seeker (Mar 24, 2009)

My ds and I both have ADD/ADHD and I'm seeing some things here that make me think something may be going on with BOTH dh and dd. Dh seems to have the hyper-focus that is the flip side of difficulty focusing; many people with ADHD can become so intent on what they are doing that things around them just fall away. This is what happens to me when I'm writing, reading, watching tv, etc. I get so drawn into what I'm doing that I don't hear people talking to me unless they physically touch me to get my attention. This sounds like your dh, focusing on his food and his task of videotaping and tuning out what was going on around him.

Another thing that happens with some people (not me but definately ds) is that they can become so focused on an idea that it becomes impossible to see the consequences of that idea. I recently read a really enlightening book entitled _ADHD and Me_. I can't remember the author's name but it was written by a teenager who had grown up with ADHD and he did an excellent job of explaining what was going on in his mind when he did impulsive things. He would be so fascinated with the rockets, matches, slingshot, etc. that he would just HAVE to see what would happen next without any thought about the actions. Natural consequences, gentle guidance, and finding productive ways to channel that curiosity where the best things for him. I think your dd's actions lately are showing that curiosity. She may or may not have ADD/ADHD but some of these things may still apply to her.


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## jt'smum (Apr 13, 2004)

DD cut off our cats eyebrows and whiskers...She lines up things all the time. She isn't autistic or any other developmental disorder. She is however, a limit tester and very curious about the how/why/and the end results of things. I to think this is normal. Now if she tried cutting me or herself then I would be worried.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jt'smum* 
DD cut off our cats eyebrows and whiskers...She lines up things all the time. She isn't autistic or any other developmental disorder. She is however, a limit tester and very curious about the how/why/and the end results of things. I to think this is normal. Now if she tried cutting me or herself then I would be worried.









OMGsh my little brother did the same thing. It was terrible but hilarious at the same time. Poor kitties. He thought they needed to have a haircut.


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## jt'smum (Apr 13, 2004)

Her reasoning was she didn't like how they felt when the would "snuggle". And she thought she looked better without them. Poor kitty is right! God rest her soul she was the best cat ever!


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Just to spoil the fun.


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## northcountrymamma (Feb 24, 2006)

So I can relate to what your dd did from my own childhood.

My dad worked ALOT...we saw him very infrequently, though when we did it was kind of distracted attention that we would get as he watched sports...(luckily he is a wonderful grandfather and learned some lessons along the way).
Alas...
I destroyed things to get his attention all the time.
I once poked little tiny holes in the bathroom wallpaper along all four corners, as far up as I could reach with my stool...and got my little sister to help me by lifting her up to get farther up.
I trimmed the pipping off our cushions on our couch once with my scissors.
I tied knots into all the fringe on the rug in our kitchen...tight small knots...many of them all the way along both ends.
I unraveled an entire sweater in our laundry room while my dad watched a hockey game.
And I wrote things under our furniture all the time.
I peeled all of the caulking out of our bathtub, our windows and doors and from around the sinks.

I'm sure there are more. I was a destructive child...always seeking daddy's attention, usually getting it, negatively but definitely getting what I was looking for. He would sit with me, talk with me, and hug me after he yelled. PERFECT.

I don't think there was much really wrong with me...and without any intervention I had a normal childhood beyond this stuff.

Just putting it out there...your post seemed to scream my childhood at me.









ETA: We all laugh like crazy at family dinners when we remember such things now!!! Especially funny when my dad brings them up if someone hasn't heard the stories before.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

But this is a HUGE hole, and it will cost hundreds of dollars to replace the sofa. Moreover, I am worried about her. Does she have some sort of neurological problem -- ?, what the heck is wrong??
The problem.. sissors in her reach and being 5 with little impluse controll.







.. It is neurological







Her brain just isn't mature enough to handle sissors unsupervised. Put them someplace outta reach but where the older child can get them have rules on when/where they are used.. include some art time through the week. This to will pass.
BTW what she did was inappropiate having her make some amends may be appropiate ect but don't think that she is somehow damaged or that this wouldn't have happened if you'd punished before.

Deanna


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## labdogs42 (Jan 21, 2009)

You definitely need to talk to your DH about spending some focused one on one time with your DD's. Just 20 minutes a day or even a few times a week of focusing on each of them like he focuses on the corn dogs will make a WORLD of difference.

You probably also need to realize that your DH needs some help, too. My DH can be like that sometimes. I have to specifically tell him when I'm going upstairs or in the house (if we're in the yard) and make sure he knows that he is now in charge of watching our son. Otherwise, he might never notice that I've left the area and will assume I'm watching DS. Crazy, but true. One more thing, try not to make himi do two things at once, like in the video taping incident. It doesn't sound like he is much of a muti-tasker. If he's taping, he shouldn't be in charge of DD at the same time. Of course, if he spent some more quality time with her, maybe it wouldn't have been an issue







, but I'm still throwing it out there!


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Ah yes.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

My second DD did this once. She's definitely got a more determined, stubborn sort of vibe to her LOL...and she's incredibly bright and creative.

In the beginning of this school year (she was 5 too) somehow she got ahold of some scissors (from using a chair to get into a cabinet) and she hid them and was cutting up stuff around the house over a period of a few days. We just started finding holes in stuff and tried to determine a pattern. She cut holes in two outfits, a school uniform skirt (which was new, I was not happy about that, but was able to repair at least). We thought that was it, until we closed our cloth blinds several days later, and she'd cut off about 6 inches at the bottom of the blinds (which thankfully were old at least).

We had a very in depth discussion, trying to figure out exactly why she did that. Maybe she was bored, maybe she was testing boundaries. We had to explain to her why it wasn't acceptable and what she could have done instead when she was feeling like she was at the time.

We did that, and now I have the scissors locked up in a closet. Having them high up in a cabinet isn't enough!

I'm just saying this to share, and don't worry so much about DD. Honestly it had be a little bit freaked out (I would have expected this more like from a 3 y.o. not a school age kid) but she's at the top of her class, perfectly behaved in school, is a serious charmer and the most socially outgoing kid in our family. I think a lot of it was about testing boundaries. And, no doubt she was feeling a lot of stress from changes (she had JUST started school like that week). Stress and intense emotions sometimes can sort of catch them off guard.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

sissors children and daddies don't mix







... neither do those cheep makeup kits like from the dollar store that are from some knock off barbie kit.. If one day a friend of your DD brings it over and you decide to allow the dress up for one afternoon DO NOt in any circumstance leave those girls alone with your DH expecting him watch... IF of course you do expect to have to wash gloppy pink smears off off every wall, every sheet, all the clothing.. the floor........ Not that this EVERY happened here nope









Deanna


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

I am pretty shocked at all the "it is normal" responses. She is 5 1/2! A two year old doesn't know better, but a 5 1/2 year old?? A kid of that age should absolutely know better, and if she doesn't then I'd look at two things - has she been overindulged, never told no, etc OR have her evaluated by the pediatrician for autism, ADHD, etc.

And while I feel bad about long hours at her dp's job, he either can responsibly watch the kids or he can't. Sounds like right now, he can't. I'd hire a mother's helper for times when mom can't be in the room.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
I am pretty shocked at all the "it is normal" responses. She is 5 1/2! A two year old doesn't know better, but a 5 1/2 year old?? A kid of that age should absolutely know better, and if she doesn't then I'd look at two things - has she been overindulged, never told no, etc OR have her evaluated by the pediatrician for autism, ADHD, etc.

And while I feel bad about long hours at her dp's job, he either can responsibly watch the kids or he can't. Sounds like right now, he can't. I'd hire a mother's helper for times when mom can't be in the room.

I can't tell how old are your kids? A 5.5 year old will still do weird things I did say in my earlier post that it was completely inappropiate and here there would be deffinate 'conquences" for such behavior BUT impluse controll is still not even close to being great for a child this age. Ther amy be some things they need to address.. Boundries and rules may need to be re evulated and tightened but to suggest the child is over endulged or needs an evulation is way over the top. I've said it before and I'll say it again.. Kids do stupid things







. Doesn't make it okay cause there kids doesn't mean they are damaged eaither.

Deanna


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

She has been told no and even *NO* and even *NO* when she does this sort of thing. She is overindulged by mainstream standards but not by AP standards. By this I mean she gets to sleep in our room if she wants to, she did CLW, etc. She obviously has poor impulse control.


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## Whistler (Jan 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
I am pretty shocked at all the "it is normal" responses. She is 5 1/2! A two year old doesn't know better, but a 5 1/2 year old?? A kid of that age should absolutely know better, and if she doesn't then I'd look at two things - has she been overindulged, never told no, etc OR have her evaluated by the pediatrician for autism, ADHD, etc.

And while I feel bad about long hours at her dp's job, he either can responsibly watch the kids or he can't. Sounds like right now, he can't. I'd hire a mother's helper for times when mom can't be in the room.

This was my first thought too. That absolutely doesn't sound like "normal" behavior from a 5.5 y-o unless they have really permissive parents or a really genuine need that is not being filled. From your recent post it doesn't sounds like the former. (My eldest now is 4.5 and that is NOT normal behavior for her.)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *northcountrymamma* 
So I can relate to what your dd did from my own childhood.

My dad worked ALOT...we saw him very infrequently, though when we did it was kind of distracted attention that we would get as he watched sports...(luckily he is a wonderful grandfather and learned some lessons along the way).
Alas...
I destroyed things to get his attention all the time.

This post made the most sense to me. It sounds like she knew exactly what she was doing and it also sounds like she is only destructive when he is in the room and zoned out. The pouring water, cutting the couch, etc.

If he has his own Ken dolls and reads stories it sounds like he WANTS to pay attention to them but is at the end of his own rope right now. I would focus first of all on trying to restore his sanity! Can he take some personal leave? Get some time "with the guys" or time to himself to recharge? Get caught up on sleep?

Then the next thing I would recommend ASAP is some time one-on-one with that DD. Suggest he take JUST her to a coffee shop and get a steamer and talk together. She was used to attention from him and now she is not getting it. He might even be able to explain to her how crazy his job is right now but that it won't last forever. Maybe they can work out a special "code" that she can use to snap him awake when she senses he is zoned out. Make her part of the solution and give her some power in her situation.

I would NOT try to fill her need yourself. She knows she has your attention. She is seeking Daddy's attention here. If he can't give it right now she needs to know why and be assured that it is not a rejection of her and that acts of destruction are not a good solution.

I hope this gets better. It's encouraging to see that your DP wants to try and be an involved Daddy even when he is stretched so thin. He should be supported in that, not criticized for not watching properly, IMO.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten* 
I am pretty shocked at all the "it is normal" responses. She is 5 1/2! A two year old doesn't know better, but a 5 1/2 year old?? A kid of that age should absolutely know better, and if she doesn't then I'd look at two things - has she been overindulged, never told no, etc OR have her evaluated by the pediatrician for autism, ADHD, etc.

And while I feel bad about long hours at her dp's job, he either can responsibly watch the kids or he can't. Sounds like right now, he can't. I'd hire a mother's helper for times when mom can't be in the room.

There is a world of difference between "normal" and "acceptable", IMHO. I think what most of us were trying to express was that this doesn't, on it own, sound like need for alarm, therapists, or medical treatment... Kids do things. Even when they know they shouldn't. Even when they know parents will be mad,or its wrong, or stupid, or whatever. It may be lack of impulse control, it may be a deliberate attempt to communicate something, it may be a subconscious effort to communicate something they don't quite understand, it may be simple boredom and not really paying that much attention to their actions. Stuff happens. Heck, I've been known to look down and realize that my hands have totally shredded something I am holding and I didn't really notice while it was happening. So a single incident like this wouldn't cause me any alarm. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't figure out some sort of consequence related to the destruction.

Given that similar things have happened more than once and only when it was child and dad, I think there might be more too it than simple boredom or whatever. I would attack this on several fronts. First, it is quite clear that dad isn't capable of reliable supervision so I would limit that as much as possible. I would insist that child participate in the repair of damage. I would confiscate anything that is clearly useful for destruction. I would figure out how to get dad to pay more attention to child -- one-on-one, focused, active attention, not passive in-the-same-room-but-separate stuff. All those things together would help, I think.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
I can't tell how old are your kids?

Boundries and rules may need to be re evulated and tightened but to suggest the child is over endulged or needs an evulation is way over the top.

My kids are 12, 8 and 5 and I was a SAHM for a decade. I nannied for five years between graduating college and having kids of my own. I worked from junior high through college babysitting for tons of families. My minor was psychology, and I've read tons of books, taken many classes related to child development, and attended the state Association for the Education of Young Children conferences. In my experience/opinion, a 5 1/2 year old cutting up the furniture is outside of what we reasonably expect. A 2 year old drawing on the walls, sure. But a normally functioning 5 1/2 year old knows better and I disagree heartily with anyone who thinks they don't. The OP has stated she believes her dd knows it is wrong, as she does it only with her dad and not with her mom. I believe the OP was the one who first mentioned having her checked out by her ped.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Whistler* 
It sounds like she knew exactly what she was doing and it also sounds like she is only destructive when he is in the room and zoned out. The pouring water, cutting the couch, etc.

If he has his own Ken dolls and reads stories it sounds like he WANTS to pay attention to them but is at the end of his own rope right now. I would focus first of all on trying to restore his sanity! Can he take some personal leave? Get some time "with the guys" or time to himself to recharge? Get caught up on sleep?

Then the next thing I would recommend ASAP is some time one-on-one with that DD. Suggest he take JUST her to a coffee shop and get a steamer and talk together. She was used to attention from him and now she is not getting it. He might even be able to explain to her how crazy his job is right now but that it won't last forever. Maybe they can work out a special "code" that she can use to snap him awake when she senses he is zoned out. Make her part of the solution and give her some power in her situation.

I would NOT try to fill her need yourself. She knows she has your attention. She is seeking Daddy's attention here. If he can't give it right now she needs to know why and be assured that it is not a rejection of her and that acts of destruction are not a good solution.

I agree with all of this. She knows it is wrong - even the OP believes she knows it is wrong. She is going to keep upping the ante until dad pays attention in the way she needs.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *babsbob* 
I'm sorry - but his made me laugh so hard!!!! OMG - *guys are so clueless!*
I am always amazed at the things my kids do when my DH or brother are "watching" them.

Um, can you please edit the bolded? Just add a "some" in front would work. Not all guys are clueless when it comes to watching kids.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

My kids are 12, 8 and 5 and I was a SAHM for a decade.
Thanks BTW I just wondered as knowing the background to posters helps with communcation.








I do agree a 5.5 year old destroying a couch is outside my personal range of "normal" behavior I'd have been honestly shocked if my DD did that even at 2.5.. However the act alone wile it would cause me anger and I'd deffiently be enforcing some drastic changes and a conquence for the action wouldn't by it SELF say horribly spoiled delquient child. No if this is part of a whole pattern more questions need to be asnswered.
FWIW my SIL kids totally destoryed their parents very pricy leather couch buy stabbing it with knives writting all over it food ect for them it is a total lack of parenting.







We sadly had to stop allowing our DD to visit because there lack of parenting puts our DD in danger even with us right there..







:
OTOH some years back I used to watch a kid who did things like cutting digging into furniture he also tried to stab me with a kitchen knife (I can''t even remember why) he sadly was diagnoised with some severe mental issues.







Luckily he did have attentive parents and with help is doing MUCH better... They both had a lot more than one bad incident though it was a huge pattern.

Deanna


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Um, can you please edit the bolded? Just add a "some" in front would work. Not all guys are clueless when it comes to watching kids.

















so very true.. I'll also say while I might come home to a bigger mess if I leave my DD alone long enough with DH hes also super involved actually a lot more than I tend to be. He is the one who lets her create sandwhiches with whip cream and pretzles to see if it tastes good then happily makes a turkey and cheese when the experment fails. (I'm the pick one PB and J or Turkey) Hes the one that walks her around the block to the big park so she can see if there are friends. (I'm the hey kids this is why we have a yard).. ect Daddies/guys are AWSOME!

Deanna


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

It would definitely not be normal for my 5.5 year old, no matter whose attention she wanted etc. She KNOWS better, and would not do such a thing. Plus I would totally freak on her as it sounds like you did OP - I completely understand that! But they are all different and it sounds like you are on to a strategy that might work. Good luck! And dont feel too badly for the threats, I probably would have said something very similar.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *octobermom* 
Daddies/guys are AWSOME!

Deanna

If we're adding the word 'some' in front of generalizations, lets do it for all of them.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
If we're adding the word 'some' in front of generalizations, lets do it for all of them.



















Deanna


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
If we're adding the word 'some' in front of generalizations, lets do it for all of them.









Very true. I don't want this to turn into a discussion about dads in general though.


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## Luckiestgirl (Nov 10, 2004)

I'm so glad I came across this thread.

First, let me say to the OP that I am RIGHT THERE WITH YOU, except that my dd is 4. In the past six months she has done the following:

1. "Painted" the recliner with a stick of butter.

2. "Painted" the screen to our family laptop with chapstick. We have tried everything and still can't get it off completely.

3. Written her brother's name in chapstick on our couch (fortunately behind some cushions, and we were getting ready to replace the couch)

4. Cut the tail off her brother's wooden horse.

5. Cut the fringe off a blanket.

6. Cut the "z-wrap" straps to her brand new sneakers, which I had bought a day earlier.

7. Drawn with markers all over the kitchen curtains.

8. Written her first initial (as in a two-foot tall letter) on the slipcover on the dining room chair.

9. Thrown an entire bag of pretzel sticks around the family room, pretending the pretzels were confetti. THis was this morning, and it took the two of us working together 40 mintues to clean up the mess.

To those of you who think this is a failure of parenting, I disagree. I strongly suspect it's a "wiring" issue.

My oldest child never did anything like this. And honestly, my dd didn't either, until the last six months or so. But she has ALWAYS been a very tacticle learner and seemigly fascinated with cause-and-effect. She mouthed things until she was three, and also liked to eat Play-doh and sidewalk chalk.

She is extremely bright and has exceptional verbal skills for her age. She is very loving with her little brother, and very generous about sharing. The only real problem is her seeming inability to refrain from destroying our property. Dh's brother did a lot of similar things at this age, and still has problems with impulse control. Some people just have this issue.

Here are the ways I am trying to address the problem:

1. All art supplies are now available only on an ask-me basis. This is really hard for all of us, as dd is very artistic, and it means I have to be standing close by EVERY time she uses scissors, paint, etc.

2. Chapstick is hidden away. For some reason, she finds the texture of the stuff irresistable.

3. If she does do something destructive (like with the pretzels today), she has to help me clean up the mess. If she refuses, she must sit on a chair until I am finished cleaning up the mess.

4. We are trying to work with her on the impulse thing by coaching her through situations where she wants to do something RIGHT NOW, and helping her through waiting a few minutes.

5. I am no longer taking it personally, as in she's doing these things to harm me. I also am letting go of the idea that it's due to some failure on my part. I truly don't think it stems from anger or lack of attention in dd's case. Dh and I are very available and attentive.

Thanks for talking about this.


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## hippiemommaof4 (Mar 31, 2008)

my dd has done stuff like that she's almost 6 1/2...she has ADD. Maybe get her evaluated it wouldnt hurt.my dd Her impulse control is just almost non existant. She has done similar things to your DDwith the couch. We actually had a hole cut in one of our old ones with my rotary cutter, I was beyond angry :-( .


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## daniedb (Aug 8, 2004)

We are coming off of a long period of DH being disconnected emotionally in much the same way, and I have a TON of thoughts. I don't have time now, destruction happens when I type long posts - I'm subbing to come back later.

The good news is, when DH reconnects, it's like a magic wand for the behavior. I'll share what helped us when I get some time tonight.


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## Whistler (Jan 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Luckiestgirl* 
To those of you who think this is a failure of parenting, I disagree. I strongly suspect it's a "wiring" issue.

IME, this "Mommy (Daddy) intuition" is right in almost every case. But the solution is often harder to find. Good luck, Mama!


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Again, dd absolutely knows better than this. I am going to talk with her about not doing something on the spur of the moment.


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## Whistler (Jan 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Treasuremapper* 
Again, dd absolutely knows better than this. I am going to talk with her about not doing something on the spur of the moment.

Whistler, I love your ideas. Unfortunately, my dh has the sort of job where he can't just take off during his busy season. Luckily, his busy season is just for a few months every other year... if we can hang on for just one more month we will be fine.

Suzanne, I am totally going to work on impulse control. Anyone have some good ideas for books or any way to explain this, please lmk.

DD adores him, bought a "Daddy's Girl" necklace at Claires with her own money last week just so he could see her wearing it, and has been planning father's day for weeks. Even though his work is crazy right now, he took both girls to Take Your Daughter or Son to work day for two hours (that's all he could do) and her behavior was perfect by all reports.

DH is usually responsive and fun, way more fun than I am. Normally, he is able to play with them in a way that I cannot -- he's so contactful and never runs out of material for his Ken dolls or his Build A Bear. Right now he is not very fun to be around, though.

I also agree that this is not normal behavior for a five and a half year old. It's not normal for our own five and a half year old -- this is out of character for her.

Thank you so much for all of your thoughtful replies.

Another idea... you know when the busy time will end, right? Make a count-down calendar for your DD and she can mark off each day. Then she might realize that her beloved Daddy WILL come back into her life mentally pretty soon.


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Whistler* 
Another idea... you know when the busy time will end, right? Make a count-down calendar for your DD and she can mark off each day. Then she might realize that her beloved Daddy WILL come back into her life mentally pretty soon.











We already made one yesterday!!!

Also, Whistler, he is taking her out to breakfast, just the two of them, tomorrow morning. That was your idea, too! So I will report back.


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## Jenne (May 21, 2004)

OP I didn't read all the responses but I'm sure you've gotten some good ones and I'm NMY BUT...

when I was almost 6 I cut the center out of a quilt that my Great Grandmother had made which was hanging on the wall in the kitchen...

I then proceeded to blame it on my brother who was 3 at the time...

Unfortunately, he blamed it on the cat...

Poor cat...

Anyway, I lived...so did my brother...and the cat...scissors were used with supervision only for awhile...

My guess is that your daughter is bright and active and creative. (Oh, when I was 16 I cut up a bunch of clothes and a queen size sheet for patches for a quilt I made...) I'm sure that she will turn out fine and that the hole in the couch will be okay. I'd just put the scissors out of reach for awhile but give her plenty of opportunity to use the scissors appropriately.

Hang in there!

Jenne


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## Degas (Sep 13, 2007)

When I was five, I wrote my name on wooden windowsills and walls all around the house. My dad made a special sander for me, which I wrote my name all over and drew on it to make it my own, and my parents had me sand the wood in the places where I had written my name. I see that as a very logical consequence, and I really learned from it. I didn't feel shamed or punished; I actually kind of enjoyed the sanding, and it really helped me understand the consequence of when you destroy property, it has to be fixed.

My daughter did something similar when she was 3 1/2. She drew on the floor with non-washable markers and painted the floor a little too. I took away the markers and paint without supervision for a long time - I think about a six months. I also had her help scrub and wash the floor to get up as much as we could. We were going to sand it too, but we never got around to it. Since she was still only 3, I helped her - but she helped a lot. We also had a long discussion about we only draw or paint on paper, and if she wanted to draw or paint on something else she needed to get permission first.

For your dd, next time she cuts something or destroys property in some way I would have her help you repair it or clean it up (as much as she is able to). If it is something not repairable and you have to buy a new "one" of whatever it is, I would have her help pay for it with her own money. If she doesn't have any money at the time, then help her raise some money by doing variations of lemonade stands - or if you aren't opposed to giving her money to do extra chores around the house she could raise it that way.

I agree this sounds like an attention issue with daddy, and that is your underlying cause that needs fixing. However, I would also have some logical consequences in place as well to help her understand why it is making you upset and what the impact is on your family. Have her help you do what you would have to repair the problem.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

what is it you think your pedi will tell you?







I am very confused by that. I mean do you really believe she is autistic because she has bad behavior at times and lines things up? (which btw is pretty normal for alot of children, it certainly does not make one autistic)

Also, I have to say it really sounds like something my DS would do. (oh wait he HAS done that!







)

Hide the scissors! (and knives too!)


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

...


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
I think I'd be more mad at my DH in that situation.

Wow well, I'm not going to be reading the rest of this old thread, but I'll say, I think it's grossly unfair when anyone gets mad at me for my child's misbehavior because I happened to be in the other room. So I don't blame my partner when it happens on his watch.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

I also think it is normal behavior - for some children. I was one of those children. Still am at almost 29. I have no impulse control when it comes to cutting things, poking holes, ripping fabric.... Sometimes I will be sitting there making a hole in a pair of pants progressively bigger and bigger thinking, "I should not be doing this, stop doing this..." but I keep doing it. I like to pick at caulking, anything rubbery, etc. It was so difficult to stop as a child. I don't have ADD, I'm not on the spectrum, it's just part of who I am.

My 16 year old sister is relatively similar. One day my mother was cooking and she was in the living room. She yelled, "Mom! how do you spell 'couch?'" I think she was 6 at the time. Hours later Mom found the words, "THIS IS A COUCH" written across one of the cushions in black Sharpie. Andi never admitted she did it. In fact, she blamed it on an adult friend of my brother's who had been sitting there the day before. Yeah, right?


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

In my house I would have wonder how tired was my dh. We have both missed things simply because we were TIRED. My kids are 8, 11, 14 and they will try and sometimes slide things past when they know we are tired.







kids. I could see me being zoned out and missing something like that.

I don't think your child is abnormal for this....It is right up there with the art work I have on my stairwell wall. It was done with in a week of it being painted. I was on duty that day. Somehow I missed it being done. Now it is not a small piece of art. It took time. Like time to get crayons, paints, et down. It is about 4ft long and 2ft high in spots. Obiviously I wasn't paying that close attention that day. Who ever did it also cleaned up after themselves.

We dont' make threats around here. We make promises. Would you actually cut the teddy bear? I wouldn't. You can back up and tell your child you were very mad when you made that threat. Ask her how she would feel if you did cut her bear. That might help her make the connection on how wrong her actions were.

I think you are right there might be a daddy attention connection. She might need a fill up on positive attention from you both.


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## Down2Earth (Jan 23, 2008)

So how is everything going? Has life gotten back to normal now that your DH is at home more? Would love to hear an update. (Even if it's boring!







I love happy, boring stories.







:


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

I just saw this request for an update, after rediscovering this thread on a certain twws board. I have not laughed that hard in a long time.

Everything is back to normal, thank goodness. Nothing exciting or interesting to report. I dread the next busy season, but I am reassuring myself that she will be seven and a half by then, and hopefully will not do stuff like that any more.


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