# losing it with my 3 year old



## yogabug (May 4, 2004)

Please please help me. I have tried so hard to use gd with my 3 year old and now she is out of control. She was very sweet when she was younger. Now she does not listen when we tell her to get dressed for school or get ready for bed. She is throwing a screaming fit every night before bed. She cries and whines at the drop of a hat. She had a tantrum today that lasted an hour and a half. I ended up yelling at her and taking away some of her toys. I just don't know what to do anymore. We have never used time out or taking things away before. Usually we can talk to her. I feel like the worst mother but I don't want her to think she can act this way. She has so much and it seems like she doesn't appreciate it. I know I am rambling but I am at the end of my rope. Please help!


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## ms. pacman (May 4, 2004)

Well, I can definitely relate, because I came on here because I am losing it, and I mean losing it, with my 2.5 yr. old. She's been whining and screaming and throwing fits too and I can't deal with it. I like to think i am usually patient and understanding, and now I feel like I am getting taken advantage of by a toddler, and it's making me feel very out of control. She deliberately is doing everything to make me mad, and I have been yelling at her all day and ended up screaming at her to leave the room at naptime and slamming the door. I am scared of hurting her, and I have never said that before. I seriously feel out of control and I can't stand it. My mother used to yell at us all the time, and I know how it made me feel. It makes me feel like a monster, not myself at all. So I understand and I am looking for advice too. I feel so sad that this is going on.


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## yogabug (May 4, 2004)

Thanks for replying. Sometimes it is just comforting to know that someone else understands. My dd woke up from her nap like nothing happened but I can't help feeling like I scarred her for life. I am still hoping someone has some advice as to what to do in these situations. How do I just get her to cooperate and stop whining/crying all the time? She is very smart and verbal. I just feel like she should understand that it is so much easier if she can just listen to us. I am just so tired.


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Three is a hard age.

I've found that you cannot rely on a 3 year old to get dressed when you tell them to, they need supervision a lot of the time. 3 year olds don't seem to take well to direct orders, but often respond well to games like "can you get dressed before I do?" There's no sure-fire way to stop the whining and crying, some kids just react very emotionally to everything. Being verbal does not mean a child has all the skills necessary to cope with the demands of life in mature ways.

No kids understand, the way we want them to, that it's just easier for them to do what we ask, right away when we ask. They, like we, just want their concerns on the table too.

Also, I have a child who can still at age 7 throw an hour-long tantrum. When she was 3 it could last 2 hours. She has always been a very spirited child, and perhaps yours is spirited too. I learned very late that trying to stop the tantrum, along with talking to her while she tantrums, yelling at her, and punishing her (like by taking toys) only served to make matters worse and prolong the tantrums. Really, you just have to ride them out and do your very best to be neutral in your tone and actions. It's much better to figure out when/why the tantrums occur, and work to prevent them through problem-solving with your child and through arranging your routines/environment accordingly.

You might find _Raising Your Spirited Child_ to be a helpful book. Also, maybe _Playful Parenting_ and _Kids, Parents and Power Struggles_. And as someone very eloquently pointed out in another thread, it's good to remember that GD is much more about how you, the parent, respond than it is about changing your child's behavior. Growing up and learning is a long process, it takes time for kids to learn. There's no formula to make them behave the way we want them to, it just takes time and our gentle guidance, patience and modeling. It's not easy though, not at all.


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## Redifer (Nov 25, 2006)

I have a 2.5 year old, who is actually relatively good, which I believe has more to do with her general disposition than my parenting









Anyhow, I agree with Sledg about the games... yes, sometimes it may take an extra 3 minutes to get dressed, but at least they're doing it themselves, without argument, and having fun learning independence at the same time.

Another thing that may work: a specific routine for leaving the house or going to bed. For instance, a lot of kids their age have a hard time transitioning from one thing right into the next (ex: get out of bed, get dressed, eat breakfast, get in car, etc)... it's hard for them. So, maybe if you make her a little posterboard, with her "routine", that she can place a sticker on after she completes each task, may make it more interesting for her... more like something she WANTS to complete instead of HAS to (another reason they call toddlerhood the "first adolesence"). Maybe rewards for good behavior after so many "good sticker days".

Also, I would try giving her more time. Yes, it's grating sometimes that it takes 45 minutes to get ready to walk out the door, but she may simply just need more time to transition... to get out of one mode and into the next.
Try adding 15 minutes onto her routine, and make it a race: time her! race along with her! cheer and laugh and clap when each task is completed! She may need that "wow factor".

I have a ton of other suggestions, but I have to run for now... I hope I helped a little bit.


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## L'ora (Nov 27, 2006)

Ms Pacman, my heart goes out to you. it sounds like you and your daughter need some reconnection and repair work. forget the discipline until you two feel solid again. you have a tiny one as well as a two and a half year old, and that can take a big toll on your calmness. Can you figure out how to just take time outs for yourself when you need them so you don't yell at your daughter?
love,
L'ora


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## Redifer (Nov 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ms. pacman* 
Well, I can definitely relate, because I came on here because I am losing it, and I mean losing it, with my 2.5 yr. old. She's been whining and screaming and throwing fits too and I can't deal with it. I like to think i am usually patient and understanding, and now I feel like I am getting taken advantage of by a toddler, and it's making me feel very out of control. She deliberately is doing everything to make me mad, and I have been yelling at her all day and ended up screaming at her to leave the room at naptime and slamming the door. I am scared of hurting her, and I have never said that before. I seriously feel out of control and I can't stand it. My mother used to yell at us all the time, and I know how it made me feel. It makes me feel like a monster, not myself at all. So I understand and I am looking for advice too. I feel so sad that this is going on.









I agree with L'ora. Take a time out for yourself.

Sometimes, it can seem that they are doing everything in their power to tick you off, but think about it rationally, when you're calm and clearheaded: is a 2.5 year old (I have a dd the same age) really capable of creating and following through a plan of "conspiracy"? Not really.

Sometimes, I've noticed, as they develop their speedy little minds, they become more obstinate and difficult because they need a re-evaluation of what is not only age appropriate, but also you need to re-evaluate their current limits and abilities. Sometimes this manifests itself by helping you get her clothes ready, or by getting things from the fridge for her meal, or generally becoming more and more responsible for herself. And with my dd, the more I resist her independence, the more tantruming occurs.

Secondly, kids are very adept at picking up emotions. They're usually natural empaths: if she detects stress or tension from you, it will tend to make her stressed or tense as well, leading to more outbursts. The easiest thing to do is relax, re-evaluate, reconsider.

If you want to, you can feel free to reach me any time on PM or email or AIM (I'm typically around all day) and get a clear, non-partial view of the situation, a time out for yourself, and also maybe some suggestions on how to make it better. I've been there


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## ms. pacman (May 4, 2004)

thank you everyone for your thoughts. i feel much better today! you are so right about time-outs for myself and i completely agree that she is naturally empathetic and picks up on my stress. that's why i tend to think everything is my fault when it's not going well.

i appreciate the replies and i know in my heart that she's still little and just needs extra reassurance. i think a lot of my negative feelings come from feeling harrassed for my nursies. it's hard sometimes! i'd write more but i only have 1 hand right now.









how're you doing today yogabug?


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## kittn (Mar 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ms. pacman* 
Well, I can definitely relate, because I came on here because I am losing it, and I mean losing it, with my 2.5 yr. old. She's been whining and screaming and throwing fits too and I can't deal with it. I like to think i am usually patient and understanding, and now I feel like I am getting taken advantage of by a toddler, and it's making me feel very out of control. She deliberately is doing everything to make me mad,









I know it must feel like she is doing it on purpose but children want to please their parents usually. They will test limits, they will push us but they don't do it to make us mad, they do it because they are learning. At 2.5 they have alot to learn still and that can make things super tough for both of you.

Quote:

I seriously feel out of control and I can't stand it. My mother used to yell at us all the time, and I know how it made me feel. It makes me feel like a monster, not myself at all. So I understand and I am looking for advice too. I feel so sad that this is going on.








I had a mom that yelled all the time and I remember always feeling like she had no control over anything. I find I feel the same way sometimes and I am the one who needs a break. What are you doing for you to recharge? Even if it's a hot bath alone at night, you need to do something . we mommies need to take care of us too


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## yogabug (May 4, 2004)

Things are better here today. We have been under a lot of stress lately and I think she does pick up on it. Also if I was feeling better I probably wouldn't have responded to her the way that I did. It just kept escalating. Now I just want to know what to do next time so it doesn't happen again. I like the idea of trying to make it a game or fun. What do you think about charts for the morning/afternoon/evening routine? It seems we have the most trouble with getting ready for school and bed.


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## L'ora (Nov 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yogabug* 
Things are better here today. We have been under a lot of stress lately and I think she does pick up on it. Also if I was feeling better I probably wouldn't have responded to her the way that I did. It just kept escalating. Now I just want to know what to do next time so it doesn't happen again. I like the idea of trying to make it a game or fun. What do you think about charts for the morning/afternoon/evening routine? It seems we have the most trouble with getting ready for school and bed.

Getting ready for bed is always the worst for me. Charts can help, if you can make them into a game. But if you make it another rule, they are likely to rebel and then it becomes another power struggle. Maybe she can make the chart, and direct you through it? Working toward something they love -- like snuggling with you for a long storytime -- works well, because what kid in their right mind really wants to work toward bedtime? But most of all, I find that you have to allow a tremendous amount of time for transitions. At least I do, otherwise I get harried and start barking at them, which makes them act up. If i allow time and give them lots of control and choices, we all stay in a good mood. Mood is everything! There are great suggestions on bedtime on the Your Parenting Solutions website, under the Toddler section (Daily Life with Your Toddler). So glad things are better. That's another good lesson for those stressful times: This too shall pass!


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## lara1828 (Aug 11, 2005)

I just read _When Anger Hurts Your Kids_. It really helped me deal with the angry feelings I've been having with my 2.5 yo.

Lara


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

.....


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

Not sure if this will help at all but my 3.3ish yo cannot dress herself easily. She can do it and often does but there is pretty much no way I could just tell my dd to get dressed and expect it to happen in the timeframe I need. At that point I have to help and have to stay positive and fun about it or else life just gets harder.


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## L'ora (Nov 27, 2006)

Hazelnut-
i hope your day got better, it sounds like a really tough one.
First, you need a break, or you'll have nothing left for your kids.
Second, it's normal for one year olds to be "astonishingly clingy" and for three year olds to not listen. Three year olds are often totally wrapped up in their own worlds. It's also normal for them to test you, and to have tantrums, and to be clingy. He sounds like a boy with big feelings.

I hear how hard you're trying, and your fear that you might be blowing it. I don't think harsher discipline is the answer, though. It might scare him into listening and obeying more, but it will just undermine any real influence you do have from your relationship with him. I wonder if maybe he's clingy and difficult because he sees his brother getting something from you that he isn't? Could his acting like he doesn't care about your approval be a defense, a result of being angry at you, or afraid that you don't approve of him?

Three is a difficult age. It does get better. You have to nurture yourself, so you can be the kind of parent you want to be for the long haul.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Ah, yes. I remember that at age 3-- the getting dressed thing. It would take forever. It still does (she's getting close to 5 now) but now I plan ahead . . .way ahead. It isn't GD, but I resort to bribes sometimes. For example, if DD says she wants X in the a.m. and I know we have to be somewhere within 3 hours, I will say, "Sure! Just get dressed first and then you can do/have X." Give yourself a lot of time for getting dressed.

As far as the screaming goes before bed, is there any chance your DD is overtired? I don't mean she will go to bed earlier, but she may _need_ to. I know my DD has gotten into being really hyper/wild in the afternoon. At first I wondered if something was really wrong and it overwhelmed me, but once I noticed that it was a pattern, I realized it was probably a basic need (tired, hungry, etc.) coming through. Since my DD won't nap, it is something I just have to plan ahead for . . .now I don't panic when she does it (but it still can be a lot to handle . . .I just know she won't be like that in the a.m.).


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## melove (Mar 15, 2006)

I feel like every day is a struggle with my 3 year old and I don't have a lot of patience left. I feel like I am constantly telling him no and raising my voice. He throws tantrums all of the time and I try and ignore them. But sometimes they last for over an hour and I need to put an end to it.

He has a new brother who is 6 months old and I think he is realizing that he isn't going any where. He loves his brother so much but loves me too and always wants me to hug him and hold him. I am curious...for those of you who have 3 year olds, do a lot of yours still want to be held a lot? I wonder if he just wants as much attention as I give his brother?

Any advice on whining? Sometimes I just want to give in.

I am new here. How do I post a new thread?


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I know it's normal for 3yos to not listen, but I sort of thought that all this validation and giving them choices and letting them feel respected was supposed to make them a little more cooperative. At least that's what I've read over and over and over, and that's not what I'm experiencing, and as it is it is difficult for me to constantly handle, and it's hard to consistently have faith that I'm doing the right thing. I also know it's normal for my 1yo to be clingy, but it's hard to hold him all day when he's hurting me and I'm dealing with his brother, who is also clingy and is demanding to be held. What I don't know is how to continue to be gentle when I feel like it's a. not working and b. completely sapping me. I am the grown up but I'm also human and no amount of little break seems to fix it. It's easy to doubt Gd when you're making all this effort and then finally have to say "no" and he can't handle it. His tantrums aren't long, but it's like I have no authority.

Melove, my son was terribly jealous when his brother was born. I really went nuts when I'd read here that if his needs were met, he'd feel content and I just had to give him more attention. He could.not.get. enough. I suppose that he probably still is jealous. So yeah, with your little one so new, I think that is a big issue for so many little kids. Not that I could give advice on handling it. :eyeroll: But I do think the big brother/sister needs a *lot* of extra attention when the baby is born.


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## Redifer (Nov 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
I know it's normal for 3yos to not listen, but I sort of thought that all this validation and giving them choices and letting them feel respected was supposed to make them a little more cooperative. At least that's what I've read over and over and over, and that's not what I'm experiencing, and as it is it is difficult for me to constantly handle, and it's hard to consistently have faith that I'm doing the right thing. I also know it's normal for my 1yo to be clingy, but it's hard to hold him all day when he's hurting me and I'm dealing with his brother, who is also clingy and is demanding to be held. What I don't know is how to continue to be gentle when I feel like it's a. not working and b. completely sapping me. I am the grown up but I'm also human and no amount of little break seems to fix it. It's easy to doubt Gd when you're making all this effort and then finally have to say "no" and he can't handle it. His tantrums aren't long, but it's like I have no authority.

A big thing I've heard repeatedly is that "It doesn't seem to be working". And I can TOTALLY relate. In those relatively early days, it seems to be almost doing the opposite of the intended.

But, you just have to remember, it's not a quick fix. Nothing ever is. It takes a lot of time and patience. I remember when I started hardcord AP'ing with my dd about a year ago. Before then, I was just no CIO, co-sleeping, etc.

But when we started dealing with GD, it took a good long 6 months of lying awake wondering if it was working, feeling like a failure. And at that point in my life, I didn't have a support group to turn to either when i felt hopeless.

Now, I've seen a remarkable change in her. I watch her get better with her behavior and her confidence and self-control every week. The tantrums are less, the clinginess is less, every negative aspect that seemed to manifest it's ugly head in the beginning are almost gone. You just have to remember that NOTHING is going to work overnight.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
I know it's normal for 3yos to not listen, but I sort of thought that all this validation and giving them choices and letting them feel respected was supposed to make them a little more cooperative. At least that's what I've read over and over and over, and that's not what I'm experiencing

It is very, very, very dangerous to think that if you do X (as a parent) then your child will do Y-- even if what you are doing is GD. I know that books, friends, etc. would like you to believe otherwise . . .and don't we all wish that were true sometimes. It's not, no matter WHAT type of discipline style you choose.

One of my biggest "aha!" moments was when I realized that my expectations were getting in the way of my relationship with my child. I still forget, because for me it takes a lot of practice, but the more I remember to NOT expect my DD to react in a certain way (fit into what I need/want her to do), the more open I am to finding the strength to deal with the situation (remain calm and accepting), and if I am lucky, a solution, too.

I posted this on another thread (the GD quickies), but it is also essential for me to remember not to take my child's behavior personally. In other words, my child's not getting dressed on time, having a tantrum, etc. are not flaws in my parenting-- nor are they flaws with my child.

I think it was in _Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline_ that the author recommends accepting and thinking "the moment is what it is." That relieves the pressure off both the child and parent, protects them from the hurry/panic of trying to fix everything and focuses instead on connecting. When connecting is the LAST thing on earth you feel like doing, it is usually a big signal that it is exactly what is needed.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Please don't assume that I think if I do X and Y according to a GD handbook that I'm expecting Z easy outcome. I don't. Nor am I ignorant of what is normal, nor am I expecting overnight results. But the gist of GD (besdies, um, being gentle, and fair and loving) is that (this is going to be a bad paraphrase, I have no time, so sorry if it sounds like I think it's a quick fix) treating a kid with respect would eliminate supposedly SOME unnecessary battles. This is all I"m talking about. Making things easier, not easy. It's frustrating for me to validate him and really work with him all day and then have to say No to something important and having such trouble. In truth I think he's just not usd to hearing No. We all know a lot of parents make things worse by expecting too much and being too forceful, and I was hoping to make things somewhat smoother by not taking that route.

I agree though that a lot of the authors (sears esp.) make it sound like gd is magic, and while I poopood that idea I think I unwittingly bought into it to some degree. I do take it personally when he challenges me, due to my own issues. I'm working on it. The way you phrased that helps me see it more too- that it's become a reflection of my parenting. I also agree that there is a lot to letting go of expectations.

But I REALLY think people need to respond a little more sensitively to people's vulnerable posts. My vent came after a very bad day and may have been harsh, but it is not necessary to assume absolute ignorance about posters b/c they don't give each and every detail and disclaimers about everything- particularly when you are using fairly patronizing language about being "very very very dangerous" to do x and y, when doing x and y was not alluded to. I just don't think it's helpful for frustrated mamas to read suggestions couched in this kind of dispiriting language.


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## yogabug (May 4, 2004)

I just wanted to say that we tried the chart for bedtime and morning routines today and it was a world of difference. She was cooperative and excited about doing what she needed to do. It was a simple list of her routine and after she did each thing on the list she put a sticker in the box. She seems to respond much better to this type of thing rather than us just telling her she has to do something. Thanks for all the replies. I still think 3 has been the hardest age so far. I look forward to reading more.


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## L'ora (Nov 27, 2006)

I am often grateful and admiring as i read the wisdom on these forums, and this thread is no exception. I just want to thank you, Mizelenius, for reminding me of two essential life truths:
1. Accepting the moment for what it is always gives us more to work with in responding to it well.
2. When connecting with someone is the LAST thing on earth you feel like doing, it is usually a big signal that it is exactly what is needed.

I so hope today was better for all the moms on this thread.
love,
l'ora


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## L'ora (Nov 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yogabug* 
I just wanted to say that we tried the chart for bedtime and morning routines today and it was a world of difference. She was cooperative and excited about doing what she needed to do. It was a simple list of her routine and after she did each thing on the list she put a sticker in the box. She seems to respond much better to this type of thing rather than us just telling her she has to do something. Thanks for all the replies. I still think 3 has been the hardest age so far. I look forward to reading more.

Hurray! You are a great mom to have figured out what works with your daughter!


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## L'ora (Nov 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
Making things easier, not easy. It's frustrating for me to validate him and really work with him all day and then have to say No to something important and having such trouble.

i know what you mean. sometimes i just want to scream at her "don't you understand how lucky you are to have a mother like me?! I don't of course,but i do wish she was grateful, at least. she takes my self-sacrificing parenting style for granted, and can certainly be bratty at times. on the other hand, now that she's older, i really do see the difference between her and other kids her age who are parented differently, so it does seem worth it. and i should add that no age was harder than three!


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