# Is learning to self-soothe just a bunch of made up hooey? Is there any reason they need to STTN?



## vrclay (Jun 12, 2007)

Ok - so you might know what I think by the title of post but my husband is terribly afraid we're doing some irreparable damage to our 16 month old by not insisting he learn to "self-soothe". Honestly, the night waking and night nursing is more troubling to my husband than me. He's afraid that since we're not doing things "like everyone else" that our kid will be forever scarred. Of course it didn't help that we spent New Year's eve with our neighbors and 2 other couples who employ the CIO strategy. It nearly killed me that one couple let their 8 month old son cry himself to sleep in the basement of a strange home. But now my husband is voicing doubts about how were are doing things. My feeling is that insisting the child sleep through the night is really for the convenience of the parents and depending on the situation it can sometimes be necessary. But we're not that family. I'm fine with the night waking, we're fine with him in our bed, my husband is just feeling a bit in-secure about our parenting choices and it's driving me crazy!!! I'm typically more self confident than my husband and parenting is just one more example of our personality differences.

Any words of wisdom for me, or my husband? Cause I'm awfully close to saying, Dude, self-soothing is a made up bunch of crap to that parents can justify letting their kids screem their hearts out until they fall asleep...


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vrclay* 
Cause I'm awfully close to saying, Dude, self-soothing is a made up bunch of crap to that parents can justify letting their kids screem their hearts out until they fall asleep...

this is essentially my belief, FWIW. is self-soothing eventually necessary? sure. adults need to know how to handle their emotions and self-regulate. but the way to get there is not to insist your baby do that...


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Of course they will learn to self sooth. Ever hear of mom going off to college with little Bobby b/c he couldn't sleep?

Dd has been in our bed from day one. Always nursed on demand, never night weaned, never forced out. In November, at age 4, she decided she wanted her own room. Ta da. Just like that, she's been there since.

-Angela


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## azmomtoone (Aug 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *readytobedone* 
this is essentially my belief, FWIW. is self-soothing eventually necessary? sure. adults need to know how to handle their emotions and self-regulate. but the way to get there is not to insist your baby do that...

same here.

We push our kids to be independent so young; a newborn by definition IS dependent, on his parents or caregivers, for everything. The transition from there to an independent adult is a gradual process which takes a long time and SHOULD. There's a lot of learning to be done between newborn and adult. Tons. Why in the world we pick some arbitrary age and say that by XX age a baby/infant/toddler/child should be doing x thing is beyond me, some are gonna do one faster, some another. That includes physical stuff, crawling and walking, AS WELL AS the emotional, like self-soothing and STTN.
That you ignore a child and let them cry does NOT mean they've learned to self-soothe either, just that you've learned to stop caring about their needs. Leave 'em crying long enough, often enough, and they will learn you don't care.
I don't think that there is anyway you can teach a child to self-soothe sooner. Crying alone certainly isn't going to do it....


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## Mama Mko (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Of course they will learn to self sooth. Ever hear of mom going off to college with little Bobby b/c he couldn't sleep?

Dd has been in our bed from day one. Always nursed on demand, never night weaned, never forced out. In November, at age 4, she decided she wanted her own room. Ta da. Just like that, she's been there since.

-Angela

This is my experience too (mostly). Alexander is 3.5 and he chooses to sleep in his bed most nights. His bed is still in our room for now. Jack is 18 months and wakes up during the night to nurse. I think this is totally age appropriate and don't mind at all.


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## AlicesMama (Nov 23, 2008)

How about some FACTS for your DH to help him understand your instincts are right:

humans are the only primates to separate themselves from their young at birth, ALL other primates sleep with their babies for many years.

The western practice of using a cot is a modern phenomenon, cots are around 300 years old, humans by comparison are around 400,000 years old as a race, babies are not supposed to be left alone to CIO ever, that's why they scream so much because it is so alien to them to be left alone, I wonder if they fear for their lives, I think they truly believe they are in danger.

Up until the 1950s most families in the USA bed-shared because they didn't have big homes, didn't have central heating, didn't have the money for a cot.

The majority of the families in the world co-sleep, we in the West are in the minority. Over half the world can't be wrong and they have all learned to self-soothe.

What did people do before cots? How did the human race function??? How does half the world function without a cot now??? How does half the human race, ah, 3 billion people learn to self-soothe because they never C'edIO and slept with mum and dad and a heap of brothers and sisters in one mud hut?


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

I think CIO is different from self-soothing. You can only expect a very basic level of "self-soothing" from a baby anyway. To me, self soothing is, say, putting a non-sleeping baby down for a nap and letting him fall asleep on his own and maybe squirm for a bit. If they start crying there is a reason for it, even if the reason is just "I want my mommy!" You don't need to teach self-soothing, it comes gradually, as does independence. Give your kids room to grow and they will, no need to push it. Sorry, I don't have any good resources for you, but I hope I've helped in some way


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## azzeps (Sep 7, 2007)

Here's an interesting website I found recently:

http://www.parentingscience.com/baby-sleep-patterns.html


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## Tangled Hill (Jun 6, 2008)

We've always shared sleep. From the time he was 2.5 on, whenever he was upset or stressed, he would find his way to the bed, I think because that was the safest, most secure place he could think of. He just always felt calm there. A different sort of self soothing, I guess.

BTW, he's ten now and often spends the night at friends' homes with absolutely no trouble whatsoever.


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## jmmom (Sep 11, 2007)

You should read the Harvard article about the damage that cio can do, and I believe the study was done on 1-2 yr olds. There's a link at the top of this forum. My favorite line is something like - "Parents should be aware that they can do permanent damage." Great stuff.


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## mizznicole (Feb 13, 2007)

I think that if you look at many of the other threads not all of us are selfish fiends for wishing our children would self-soothe and STTN. If you can handle waking up 10 times a night for months on end, that's great for you. After having a child who is a terrible sleeper I have a lot of sympathy for parents and the need for a good night's rest.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

I never did CIO, I always nursed my kids back to sleep at night. They both eventually stopped waking to nurse & they both usually sleep through the night. They did it when they were ready, on their own terms. It took a bit longer that way, but so what?


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## lizw (Apr 16, 2008)

Where can we find a copy of that Harvard article on the damage CIO can do? I have a friend who REALLY needs to see it.


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## Astraia (Jan 1, 2009)

Here's a link for it (I think this must be the one you're talking about!)

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/...enNeedTou.html


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## lizw (Apr 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Astraia* 
Here's a link for it (I think this must be the one you're talking about!)

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/...enNeedTou.html

Thank you!


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## Gabe'sMummy (Dec 4, 2008)

Can I play devil's advocate here?

I am a mainstream but slightly crunchy mama. I come here mainly for the babywearing board - I would co-sleep as well but DP won't let me, so DS is a happy crib sleeper and we co sleep if he is unsettled or ill.
Anyway, I don't think 'self-soothing' has to mean CIO. By any means. I have never left DS to cio and never will, but he does get himself off to sleep, simply because I found he slept better that way right from being about a month old.
I don't think there is anything wrong with nursing or rocking to sleep and if this is the only way baby sleeps then great, like PPs said they all learn to self soothe eventually. But if you have an easygoing baby you might find you can quite easily put them down in your bed or in a crib when they are tired but not OVERtired (yk?) and they will fall asleep pretty easily and it kinda teaches them that if they wake in the night or whatever reason and are not hungry they don't have to cry for the boob to comfort them back to sleep.

Although I know this isn't for everyone, I do it with DS. I also rock, cuddle, wear him down to sleep, whatever works for us at the time. I ignore everyone who says "He'll get used to it" because he never does and so what if he did anyway. But I have found he will sleep longer if he drifts off on his own.

Hope I don't offend anyone. Just my experience.


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## bodaciousmom (May 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gabe'sMummy* 
Can I play devil's advocate here?

I am a mainstream but slightly crunchy mama. I come here mainly for the babywearing board - I would co-sleep as well but DP won't let me, so DS is a happy crib sleeper and we co sleep if he is unsettled or ill.
Anyway, I don't think 'self-soothing' has to mean CIO. By any means. I have never left DS to cio and never will, but he does get himself off to sleep, simply because I found he slept better that way right from being about a month old.
I don't think there is anything wrong with nursing or rocking to sleep and if this is the only way baby sleeps then great, like PPs said they all learn to self soothe eventually. But if you have an easygoing baby you might find you can quite easily put them down in your bed or in a crib when they are tired but not OVERtired (yk?) and they will fall asleep pretty easily and it kinda teaches them that if they wake in the night or whatever reason and are not hungry they don't have to cry for the boob to comfort them back to sleep.

Although I know this isn't for everyone, I do it with DS. I also rock, cuddle, wear him down to sleep, whatever works for us at the time. I ignore everyone who says "He'll get used to it" because he never does and so what if he did anyway. But I have found he will sleep longer if he drifts off on his own.

Hope I don't offend anyone. Just my experience.


I agree with what your saying, this seems to be the sentiment that self-soothe does not equal CIO.. Also lot of babies my DD included are good at self entertaining.. meaning she needs me to nurse her to sleep, but she wakes up and plays in the bed or penguin slides into her crib(side car) and hangs out for a little while. I can't help but think that if I left her to CIO she would be more clingy when awake.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gabe'sMummy* 
Can I play devil's advocate here?

I am a mainstream but slightly crunchy mama. I come here mainly for the babywearing board - I would co-sleep as well but DP won't let me, so DS is a happy crib sleeper and we co sleep if he is unsettled or ill.
Anyway, I don't think 'self-soothing' has to mean CIO. By any means. I have never left DS to cio and never will, but he does get himself off to sleep, simply because I found he slept better that way right from being about a month old.
I don't think there is anything wrong with nursing or rocking to sleep and if this is the only way baby sleeps then great, like PPs said they all learn to self soothe eventually. But if you have an easygoing baby you might find you can quite easily put them down in your bed or in a crib when they are tired but not OVERtired (yk?) and they will fall asleep pretty easily and it kinda teaches them that if they wake in the night or whatever reason and are not hungry they don't have to cry for the boob to comfort them back to sleep.

Although I know this isn't for everyone, I do it with DS. I also rock, cuddle, wear him down to sleep, whatever works for us at the time. I ignore everyone who says "He'll get used to it" because he never does and so what if he did anyway. But I have found he will sleep longer if he drifts off on his own.

Hope I don't offend anyone. Just my experience.

Eh, I don't really agree. Dd I *had* to nurse down. Ds went through a stage where if I'd wanted to work it, I could have gotten him to fall asleep alone. I didn't STOP that from happening, but I didn't really work for it either. Babies are designed to sleep with mama.

Neither of my kids have ever woken enough in the night (as a rule- there are teething nights and such of course) to *cry* for the boob. They stir, I roll, they latch on and everyone goes back to sleep (or mostly just stays asleep)

-Angela


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## Gabe'sMummy (Dec 4, 2008)

I think it is just whatever works for you, personally. No right or wrong way. what works for one doesn't always for another. DS is very cuddly when he's awake but not so much at sleep time, so this is what we do - maybe if we had co-slept more often he would be different


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## ryansma (Sep 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *azmomtoone* 

We push our kids to be independent so young; a newborn by definition IS dependent, on his parents or caregivers, for everything. The transition from there to an independent adult is a gradual process which takes a long time and SHOULD. There's a lot of learning to be done between newborn and adult. Tons. Why in the world we pick some arbitrary age and say that by XX age a baby/infant/toddler/child should be doing x thing is beyond me, some are gonna do one faster, some another. That includes physical stuff, crawling and walking, AS WELL AS the emotional, like self-soothing and STTN.
That you ignore a child and let them cry does NOT mean they've learned to self-soothe either, just that you've learned to stop caring about their needs. Leave 'em crying long enough, often enough, and they will learn you don't care.
I don't think that there is anyway you can teach a child to self-soothe sooner. Crying alone certainly isn't going to do it....











It's an absurd idea that pushing/forcing kids to be independant will make them so.


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## Megamus (Oct 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gabe'sMummy* 
I think it is just whatever works for you, personally. No right or wrong way. what works for one doesn't always for another. DS is very cuddly when he's awake but not so much at sleep time, so this is what we do - maybe if we had co-slept more often he would be different









I think I would rephrase that to "whatever works for your baby." All babies are different, so it just makes sense that they would fall asleep differently. I had a coworker whose DD2 absolutely would NOT fall asleep if she was being held, but would go out like a light if she was put in her crib awake. So that coworker went with it -just put her down to sleep and let her drift off because that's what she needed. It's when people start classifying that kind of baby as "better" than the kind that needs to be parented to sleep, or says "Well, obviously if it works for that baby it should work for ALL babies by X age and if it's not it's the parents' fault" that we run into problems.


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## ryansma (Sep 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Megamus* 
I think I would rephrase that to "whatever works for your baby." All babies are different, so it just makes sense that they would fall asleep differently. I had a coworker whose DD2 absolutely would NOT fall asleep if she was being held, but would go out like a light if she was put in her crib awake. So that coworker went with it -just put her down to sleep and let her drift off because that's what she needed. It's when people start classifying that kind of baby as "better" than the kind that needs to be parented to sleep, or says "Well, obviously if it works for that baby it should work for ALL babies by X age and if it's not it's the parents' fault" that we run into problems.

Very well put.


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## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

The thing about self soothing is that it's learned by one's SELF. Another person can't teach a person to SELF soothe.

So we meet their needs, and they slowly figure out their sense of self, and figure out what works for them. They ask for what they feel they need (which is part of working on self-soothing, yes?), if they don't need something they don't ask for it, and so on.

It's a process. People who force their children into a situation aren't helping their kids to SELF soothe, they are just forcing them to cope. IMO.

My guy didn't sleep through the night util around 3.5 years old, when suddenly he was tired enough at night (during a trip to disneyland) that he just fell asleep and pretty much stayed asleep. Over the next few months it got more and more solid with him, and now, once he's asleep he almost always stays asleep until he's ready for the morning. We never forced that at all, it just happened as he figured it out during that exhausting trip to Disneyland.


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## BekahMomToOliver (Oct 31, 2008)

I know how you're feeling! Not only is it difficult to watch other's babies CIO, it's even worse when someone is encouraging you to do the same with your own babe. In our case, I work in a daycare, often with infants. Before I had my son, I thought nothing of the fact that at nap time, most of the children would be placed in their cribs and left to 'self-soothe' to sleep. Most of them lay there until they fell asleep, sometimes chatting to each other through the 'bars'. Some of them were more resistant and we had strict orders (from parents, never from the boss) to 'just leave them'. It was so hard to do!
I went back to work recently, and now I wonder at this system... it's one of the reasons my son isn't in daycare... I know that the only way he'll fall asleep is being worn down in his sling, or in the middle of a queen-size bed with mommy or daddy by his side. If we ever put him in a crib, God forbid LEFT him in one, he'd be absolutely outraged, for days (and with good reason!) He's spirited, to say the least, and I hate it to hear parents talk about leaving babes to cry because it's like they're breaking that same little spirit. You're telling your child, "I'll be available when it suits me, and no amount of crying is going to bring me back early."







I too believe babies cry for a reason, and that needs to be respected. We'd never treat an adult like that because it would be disrespectful, if not downright cruel.
Yesterday, my boss was telling me about the sleep situation with one of the babies, and I could have hugged her when she told me " With (baby's name), mom and dad like for us to just put her to bed and leave her, but she tends to cry really hard. I usually go in and rock her to sleep instead, because it's not fair to just let her sob." I told her I'd never been able to leave Oliver myself, and that I'm not sure I could listen to a baby cry for help and not respond, and my boss summed it up perfectly. She replied " I hear alot of parents let them CIO, but I don't subscribe to that idea either. I figure, they're not going to be 16 and crying at night, so suck it up and spend some extra time with your child. They're not babies forever, they'll sleep eventually!"


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## Gabe'sMummy (Dec 4, 2008)

Agreed Megamus - think I phrased it wrong. But yeah. Hope everyone knew what I meant.
Just that self settling is not necessarily cio.


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