# Dh wants to lock ds in his room at bedtime :(



## bright_eyes (Dec 7, 2007)

MIL is visiting and had a talk with dh about ds and the issues were having with getting him to bed and now I'm having a hard time convincing dh that we shouldn't put one of those door handle locks on the inside of ds's door to keep him in his room and make him go to sleep on his own at night. I need some help convincing him of why this is not respectful and won't necessarily gaurantee that our bedtime issues will disappear by doing that.

Here's some background on our sleep issues so that you can understand the situation better:

Until recently, ds nursed to sleep but ever since summer hit, we've started having a few issues at a bedtime. The problem is that we go through our routine (bedtime snack, pajamas, teeth brushing, read books, nurse) and then won't go to sleep. He'll tell me he's hungry, so my compromise is a glass of milk- that way he's getting something in his belly if he really is hungry, but I'm not going through the effort of getting a 2nd bedtime snack for him. It's often quite the argument about him not getting a snack and just getting milk instead. And then he'll tell me he's not tired and won't stay in bed (this is with me having not left the room). So then I'll go through a battle with him of putting him back in his bed over and over again. Then he'll want Daddy and not me. So I'll get dh and then he'll lie with him for awhile until he's asleep, which can take awhile. Or ds will beg to nurse, and sometimes I'll switch with dh and then he'll nurse to sleep. Or another scenario that will happen is I'll be lying with ds and he'll be chatting away and I can't stand being there when he's not going to go to sleep because I know if I can convince him to stay in bed and let me leave, he'll talk himself to sleep. There's been times where I've left to go get dh for him and then I won't get dh and he'll fall asleep within minutes, just waiting. So I'll try telling him that I'm going to leave to go do something and I want him to stay in bed and then it'll turn into a big battle with him constantly getting out of bed and leaving his room and me putting him back in bed until finally I just go back in and lie with him until he's finally asleep. Often then he'll nurse to sleep. So bedtime is often and hour or two long process.

Every night isn't like this. But half the time we just take him for a truck ride because it puts him to sleep in 10 minutes and means we get to skip over the whole fight. Or he'll go to bed quite late and be so tired that he will nurse to sleep. But then he's grumpy the next day from going to bed late.

We had a baby sitter the other night who put him to bed. I was very doubtful that she would be able to get him to sleep but thought I'd give it a shot. She read him a book and then told him she needed to leave to go read her daughter a book (who she had brought along) and he let her leave just like that and went to sleep. Mind you, it was also 10 pm, and he was exhausted.

So dh's argument is that ds is controlling us and running the show. He uses the example of how he stayed in bed for the baby sitter because he knew she meant business but with us, he knows he can get away with getting out of bed a million times. He says using the lock would keep him in his room and it would only be hard for the first couple of nights. He tells me it's no different then forcing him into his carseat, which we've done on occasion, because we are restraining him against his will, and ds hasn't suffered any negative effects from that. He tells me that it's one of those things that I will regret later on if I don't teach him now to stay in bed and go to sleep.

I've tried telling dh that I don't feel it is respectful to lock him in his room and that it's not the same as the carseat because the car seat is a safety issue and he always gets a chance to put himself in and forcing him in his an absolute last resort that rarely happens. I think it would hurt ds a lot to be locked in his room as he gets extremely upset when he can't open doors that he wants and I don't want to turn bedtime into a horrible thing like that. But dh is convinced that it would only be hard on him for a couple of nights and ds would not suffer any long time effects from a couple of nights. It's frustrating because I know MIL has a lot to do with his opinion...

So what else can I tell him? Any ideas of a more respectful way we can teach ds to stay in bed and go to sleep at night?


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## 4Blessings (Feb 27, 2008)

A few years ago Dear Abby had a question/answer about locking children in their bedrooms. There were stories about fires/accidents where the children died.

I could not imagine locking my child in his/her bedroom and those stories have always stuck with me.

Does your DS respond to rewards? Maybe a special day out with Mom or Dad or Grandma if he stays in bed for X number of nights?


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## mamakah (Nov 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Proud2BeAnAmerican* 
A few years ago Dear Abby had a question/answer about locking children in their bedrooms. There were stories about fires/accidents where the children died.

I could not imagine locking my child in his/her bedroom and those stories have always stuck with me.

Does your DS respond to rewards? Maybe a special day out with Mom or Dad or Grandma if he stays in bed for X number of nights?

^^Yea! Although I wouldn't reward grandma with the visit if she is being so insultingly intrusive on your parenting practices.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

first of all locking him in his room would be very mean. jmo. i did that to DS when he was little (i was 19 and did not have MDC and did not know what else to do). i regret it and it makes me cry sometime when i put DD to bed.

i know alot of people dont like supernanny or whatever but i did like her advice on helping kids to sleep in their own room.

1st- consitency. the same routine every night. bath book etc. if i dont tell DD to "dont let the bed bugs bite" and she doesnt say "if they bite, bite them back" every night she wont stay in bed. routine. same person every night etc.

2nd. quit letting him run the show. no second snack etc. one snack, one glass of milk, then pjs, then a book, then a tuck in, then lights out.

if he doenst want to stay in bed, it is understandable, he misses you, wants to not miss out on anything etc.

her advice was to sit with the child until they fell asleep, put them back in their bed if they get out. be nice, just tuck back in "good night". every night move further away from the bed. until you are right outside the door. then down the hall.

i dont know what other people fee, it worked for me. i was gentle and reassuring. but i never wavered from the routine. i made it portable too. even camping, D had her evening glass of milk, made her bed, grabbed her fav toy, tucked her in, and said our little saying. she was snoring 10 min later.

this is all just my opinion. but i think your issue is not having a routine and not sticking with it. too many his turn her turn, do this, then do that. simplify. that is my advice. hope it helps.


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## bright_eyes (Dec 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionessMom* 
this is all just my opinion. but i think your issue is not having a routine and not sticking with it. too many his turn her turn, do this, then do that. simplify. that is my advice. hope it helps.

No, I completely agree. I'm not actually super stressed out by the whole bedtime thing because I know that part of the problem is the lack of consistency. The bedtime issues are fairly new, so I haven't been too stressed because I feel like if I just figure out a new routine (since the old one just isn't working- we did have one that fell apart when he stopped nursing to sleep and started wanting a bedtime snack since he's not getting milk anymore, as my milk has dried up) and then stick to the routine that we'll get back on track.


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## CrunchyChristianMama (Dec 5, 2008)

I agree with the routine idea. There should be a set routine for kids that struggle with this and the key is to not allow them to waver from it with stalling techniques. If he's had his nighttime snack and you assure that he is full before you're even in the bedroom, then you can rest assured that his ploy of hunger is just a way to stall. During the day talk to him about the fact that this is the routine, here's what's going to happen, and when it's all done it's time to lay down and go to sleep. Let him know that if he tries to get up or do other things that you will be laying him back down again because nighttime is for sleeping. If he knows up front exactly what is going to happen, he should transition better.


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

Yeah, I'd look at it from a purely safety issue first and then a psychological and emotional one, I don't think locking him in would be great in any of those respects. DS1 has had bedtime issues too, arguing and asking things. I'm very consistent with what I allow him though. Only water, his chance to eat is before bedtime. If he wants me there I will lay down with him until he is asleep, no talking from me once it's time to settle in. When he was still nursing I would let him nurse. No switching parents as a means to delay, it was me if I could, daddy if needed. DH can't leave the room without waking him though, too noisy. If he woke up, if it's nearly morning we let him join us, otherwise lay him back down and wait with him til asleep. Usually with him when that happens he's not really awake anyway, something woke him a bit and he stumbled into our room, lay him back down and he is out. If he seems like he might be sick or something and need us he gets insistent we not leave him and can't sleep soundly, so I make him a pallet beside our bed.

DS is 3 and lately has started either falling asleep early while we hang out on the couch and getting carried to bed, or going to bed by himself sometimes.

How old is your DS anyway, I didn't catch that?


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Wow, that is an incredible jump -- from nursing to sleep to being locked in alone! There are just so many other options and ideas, I can't imagine going from such extremes!

For me, the lock would be an absolute no-go because of pure safety. If there is a fire, child absolutely must be able to get out of his room. Period. You cannot assume you would be able to get to him to release his lock. What if you were unconscious due to smoke? Therefore, no lock.

However, if both of you are frustrated by the current routine, then there are lots of alternatives.

Before starting any change though, you and DH need to realize one simple truth. You cannot FORCE someone to sleep. You can require quiet, you can require staying in bed, but you can't force someone to sleep.

Before trying to change bedtime, make some "daytime changes" to ensure he is really tired -- lots of outside play time is key. Lots of running around during the day. You may also want to look at your nap schedule (if you still have one), and move naps earlier in the day. Or perhaps he is ready to give up naps? If you can't do that (for example, if he has to nap at preschool), then maybe a later bedtime would work better.

Then figure out what your ideal bedtime routine is and stick with it for a couple of weeks. For us this is dessert/snack, bath/shower, 3 books and 3 songs before I turn out the light. Then I turn out the light and cuddle until child is asleep. This rarely takes long and I really treasure this time each day.

When we've gone through periods where child didn't want to stay in bed or wasn't tired for whatever reason, we allow them to play quietly in their rooms until they are sleepy (or read, now that they are older). But the trade off is that I'm not going to lay down again, so if they play then they have to get themselves to sleep. If they are driving my crazy with up/down/up/down stuff I generally say "I really need to go do laundry/dishes/whatever and I'll come back and check on you in 5 minutes." and left.

Any change in routine takes time to be effective. Seems like you have made several changes recently and are not being consistent with the routine. Both of these things are probably contributing to the problem. Figure out what the ideal is and ask your DH for at least a month before judging if the changes you make are effective.


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

My parents never had me on a routine, and let me cosleep with them some nights and some nights wanted me to sleep in my own room....there was just to rhyme or reason i could count on as a child. No schedules or routines at all. Anyways when my little sister was born, they all of a sudden decided that i should start sleeping in my room, so they would lock me in there.

I still remember to this day! It was awful, and one of the most traumatic times in my life. I think that there are much better ways to teach your child to listen and follow direction than to scare your child into crying themselves to sleep.

Whatever you do decide to do, please think long and hard about it, and please no matter what, stick to your guns. If this is the road you do decide to take, do not give in. It is absolutely horrible (worse than CIO or locking a child in their room to begin with) for a parent to "try" to do one of those methods and always give in. Why would you want to torture your child for an extended amount of time?


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionessMom* 
this is all just my opinion. but i think your issue is not having a routine and not sticking with it. too many his turn her turn, do this, then do that. simplify. that is my advice. hope it helps.

Yes to this. I have a 2 year old and I am noticing this. My most successful times are when we are completely ready, everything is done, and I just lay there with him and tell him we will be doing all those things tomorrow, now we are sleepy and going to go night night. Works like a charm. The key is not to cave on anything.


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## alfabetsoup (Jun 13, 2005)

Just wondering if he still has an afternoon nap? When DD1 was getting ready to give hers up our bedtimes got AWFUL. Once we stopped the nap they were easy again because she was actually tired!

PP have given great advice about routine! I find that lying down facing away and answering every query (after talking about what we did that day) with 'time for sleeping now' works well.


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## poppan (Mar 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bright_eyes* 
So dh's argument is that ds is controlling us and running the show.

Yeah, I'd agree with your DH on that one. BUT, I don't agree with his solution to it.

This is what I would do if I were in your shoes: first I'd acknowledge to DH that bedtime isn't working and assure him that I want to solve it as much as he does. He has a valid point and with my DH at least, I would get points for acknowledging the problem and he would be more open to what else I had to say. And I would thank him for coming up with a solution, but tell him why I don't want to do it, it's traumatizing, it's too big of a change from where DS is now. Then I'd outline what I want to try instead. If you need to promise that you would be the one implementing the new plan, then do that. I don't think that's fair but there are compromises every day in life, if that's the compromise you need to make then so be it. You got lots of good feedback on alternate ways/plans to get DS to sleep, so I won't add to that.

I guess this is just practice for the parenting disagreements that are sure to come up down the road!


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

1. Is he really hungry? How many hours from dinner to bedtime?

2. Is he really tired?

What happens when you keep him up? Does he get overstimulated and angry/sad? Or does he sleep?

Based on the kids I have in mind, I think you're wasting your time and just need to give him a snack and let him play quietly in his room until he is really tired.

But I do know some kids can get wired if they go past a certain extent and only the parent knows if this is true for that particular child.

I imagine locking a talking child into a bedroom is potentially more psychologically harmful than letting an infant cry it out because the child understands you are on the other side of the door and can hear him.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

Aside from the safety issues inherent in locking a child in, I don't believe in restricting anyone's access to the potty. There are legitimate reasons for a child to get up and leave the room at night (they're sick, they're scared, they need to pee...) and I'm just not willing to interfere with those.

I agree that a more consistent bedtime routine would help.


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## oliversmum2000 (Oct 10, 2003)

if your dh feels bedtime is a battle i think locking your son in his room is actually admitting defeat, it tells him he is the one in control and the only way that you can manage is to lock him in his room. i also think locking a child in a room would be very scary for them, try locking your dh in a room in the evening and havinfg him not know when he will be able to get out...!!!









i have a stair gate accross my dd's door which i sometimes use if she is wondering and i need to put her brothers to bed, but mostly i dont have to close the gate, she does like to play quietly in her room before she goes to bed though so i rarely actually put her to bed, i read to her then she plays (or her latest habit is to lay out tomorrows clothes for her an her baby sister!!)

sorry just my random tired thoughts


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## amandaleigh37 (Jul 13, 2006)

When my DS started falling asleep in his own room, it was like you mentioned - I would go to get him a drink of water & if I took a while I'd come back & find him asleep









Since then, we established a bedtime routine that we follow every night. I'm the one who does it (if DH tries, things don't go as well). I'd suggest getting the final snack/drink before going to bed, then if he asks for another one just say "we already had a snack, now it's time to sleep" and stick to that. For us, after the routine (books, songs, kisses, etc.) I would tell DS I had to go do whatever (laundry, clean up the kitchen, etc.) and that I'd be back to check on him. Usually he was asleep when I came back. After a few weeks of this, now I just kiss him goodnight and leave the room & he is fine.

I dont' think the lock will solve anything other than more frustration for your son, which will likely NOT make bedtime any easier if he is afraid & anxious about being locked in there. Good luck!


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## mamakaikai (Apr 17, 2009)

If my husband suggested this, which he would never do, I would simply ask him if he would ever consider locking an adult in a room and ignoring their distressed calls for help?


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## Meems (Jan 8, 2007)

I wouldn't entertain the idea your DH is suggesting. However, PP has good advice that I have done also, and it does work but you must be consistent.

Quote:

1st- consitency. the same routine every night. bath book etc. if i dont tell DD to "dont let the bed bugs bite" and she doesnt say "if they bite, bite them back" every night she wont stay in bed. routine. same person every night etc.

2nd. quit letting him run the show. no second snack etc. one snack, one glass of milk, then pjs, then a book, then a tuck in, then lights out.

if he doenst want to stay in bed, it is understandable, he misses you, wants to not miss out on anything etc.

her advice was to sit with the child until they fell asleep, put them back in their bed if they get out. be nice, just tuck back in "good night". every night move further away from the bed. until you are right outside the door. then down the hall.

i dont know what other people fee, it worked for me. i was gentle and reassuring. but i never wavered from the routine. i made it portable too. even camping, D had her evening glass of milk, made her bed, grabbed her fav toy, tucked her in, and said our little saying. she was snoring 10 min later.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

I agree with PP's and don't really have too much to add other than this...locking your son in his room is most likely illegal in whatever state you live in. My guess is that CPS and law enforcement officials will probably consider this to be child abuse. Why risk having your DS taken away from you over sleep issues. I agree with your DH ( and you) that there needs to be a solution, but locking your child in their room is not the answer. I also think you need to show this post and it's responses to your DH.


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## bright_eyes (Dec 7, 2007)

Wow, lots of great replies! Thanks Mamas!

FYI, Ds will be 3 in a month and he hasn't napped for ages.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
Wow, that is an incredible jump -- from nursing to sleep to being locked in alone! There are just so many other options and ideas, I can't imagine going from such extremes!

Yes, I totally agree! That's one of the points I made to dh- it's not really fair to all of a sudden start locking him in his room when the whole putting himself to sleep his a brand new thing for him and we haven't been trying to teach him to do this for very long. Part of the reason I haven't been terribly frustrated at bedtime is that I know that we are just in one of those transitions periods where we need a change and I just haven't figured it out yet. In a way, I'm glad this topic came up this morning because I know I can convince dh with the right arguments, so I'm not terribly concerned about us disagreeing on the issue, but more than that, it is forcing me to finally come up with a solution to the issues we've been having.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
When we've gone through periods where child didn't want to stay in bed or wasn't tired for whatever reason, we allow them to play quietly in their rooms until they are sleepy (or read, now that they are older). But the trade off is that I'm not going to lay down again, so if they play then they have to get themselves to sleep. If they are driving my crazy with up/down/up/down stuff I generally say "I really need to go do laundry/dishes/whatever and I'll come back and check on you in 5 minutes." and left.

I've thought about doing this before but I get so worried that he'll stay up for hours reading/playing. In the past 3 years, he's fallen asleep once while playing and he was extremely tired. I worry that if I try letting him read/play that he won't go to sleep for ages and if I do it one time, I'll have to let him do it all the time because he won't let me forget that I let him the one time. Does it take your kids long to fall asleep when you let them do this?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poppan* 
This is what I would do if I were in your shoes: first I'd acknowledge to DH that bedtime isn't working and assure him that I want to solve it as much as he does. He has a valid point and with my DH at least, I would get points for acknowledging the problem and he would be more open to what else I had to say. And I would thank him for coming up with a solution, but tell him why I don't want to do it, it's traumatizing, it's too big of a change from where DS is now. Then I'd outline what I want to try instead. If you need to promise that you would be the one implementing the new plan, then do that. I don't think that's fair but there are compromises every day in life, if that's the compromise you need to make then so be it. You got lots of good feedback on alternate ways/plans to get DS to sleep, so I won't add to that.

Thank you for this, I think this is fantastic advice! Dh is on board with me with GD parenting and really does try to be respectful to ds, but he is not liking the fact that ds really is in control of the bedtime scene and that it is often such a battle. I know that the locking the door thing is just his mom's idea and he doesn't know what else to do (and a friend just suggested it to us recently as well). Part of the problem with our discussion about it was that I was so adamant that it was an awful idea and he was trying to maintain the fact that there is an issue that needs to be resolved and this could be a solution- I wasn't providing any better solutions. This will go over really well with him if I agree with him that he is right that we do need to do something about bedtime and that he was right about several of the points he brought up and then suggest some solutions that I think we should try.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *claddaghmom* 
1. Is he really hungry? How many hours from dinner to bedtime?

2. Is he really tired?

What happens when you keep him up? Does he get overstimulated and angry/sad? Or does he sleep?

Based on the kids I have in mind, I think you're wasting your time and just need to give him a snack and let him play quietly in his room until he is really tired.

But I do know some kids can get wired if they go past a certain extent and only the parent knows if this is true for that particular child.

He always eats right before bed. Either he's just had supper or he's just had a bedtime snack. He is definately tired, he is one of those kids that can really get wired and just go and go and go. I really think the biggest issue it that he just doesn't really know how to fall asleep on his own since he's been nursing to sleep for so long. I feel pretty confident that I can figure out a way to get him to stay in bed, that he would just talk himself to sleep without a problem.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amandaleigh37* 
Since then, we established a bedtime routine that we follow every night. I'm the one who does it (if DH tries, things don't go as well). I'd suggest getting the final snack/drink before going to bed, then if he asks for another one just say "we already had a snack, now it's time to sleep" and stick to that. For us, after the routine (books, songs, kisses, etc.) *I would tell DS I had to go do whatever (laundry, clean up the kitchen, etc.) and that I'd be back to check on him.* Usually he was asleep when I came back. After a few weeks of this, now I just kiss him goodnight and leave the room & he is fine.

My biggest struggle is just getting him to stay in bed. I am starting to figure out that the request for food is just a stall and one he knows will work with me. I hate being hungry, especially when I'm trying to fall asleep, so I always worry that he really is hungry. But if I just trust that he got enough to eat/drink during snack time and stick to my guns about not letting him have more food/drink, that this issue will go away.

But it's the staying in bed thing that is really hard. If I tell him I'll be back, he wants to know where I'm going. If I tell him I need to do dishes, he wants to come and help me. If I tell him no he needs to stay in bed, he tells me he's not tired. So I'll tell him that he doesn't need to go to sleep, but he needs to stay in bed. And then he'll tell me he doesn't want to stay in bed. If I leave, then he will just get out of bed over and over and over again. Each time I pick him up and put him back without saying anything. The other night when I tried to do this with the goal of not stopping until he stayed, I could see him getting more and more angry and upset. He would open his door and charge and me and try to hit me. After about 20 times of doing this, I finally went in and had a little talk with him about going to sleep and then laid there with him until he fell asleep.

I've gotten great suggestions about being consistent with a routine, but does anyone have any more suggestions of getting him to stay in bed? What do I do when he just won't stay??? Should I have just persisted the other night until he finally stayed even if it took an hour? I've thought of getting a CD player for his room and letting him listen to music if he'll stay in bed but I don't know if I want to start down that path as I think it's good for people to be able to go to sleep without always having to listen to music. I know too many people that cannot sleep without music, the t.v. on, ect. and I don't want ds to be like that. But I can really see ds going for that, so I don't know what to do.

Oh, and great points everyone on the safety issue of ds's door being locked, I hadn't even considered that and it's a really good argument.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bright_eyes* 
I've gotten great suggestions about being consistent with a routine, but does anyone have any more suggestions of getting him to stay in bed? What do I do when he just won't stay??? Should I have just persisted the other night until he finally stayed even if it took an hour? I've thought of getting a CD player for his room and letting him listen to music if he'll stay in bed but I don't know if I want to start down that path as I think it's good for people to be able to go to sleep without always having to listen to music.

First, I have found that over the years (DS is almost 10 and DD 6, so BTDT), few things are "forever" with kids and bedtime. Frankly, I would be concerned about getting through establishing a new routine that everyone can live with and that can be executed once you have a new baby (if I'm reading your sig correctly). Beyond that, let tomorrow take care of itself.

DS really liked music for about 6 months and it was a great way to have him relax and he was willing to stay in bed to listen. If you chose the right music, I think this is a great option. My parents used a single piece of music at bedtime all the time when I was a kid and I still can't hear it without drifting off -- even in a concert hall setting! But I don't have to listen to music to fall asleep.

We've also been through periods where it takes longer for them to fall asleep than normal. Frequently as they reach milestones or are going through big transitions in their lives. Learning to sleep without nursing certainly counts, so I would expect things to be different (and more difficult) now but will improve with time.

Also, if he is eating immediately before laying down, he might be experiencing a bit of heartburn. Maybe move snack to before bath or before stories?

Does he have some sort of "lovey"? Both of my kids (yes, even the 9 YO) still have stuffed animals they sleep with.

Since it seems like he needs to learn to relax and stay in bed, I think you should consider staying with him while he falls asleep, at least as a first step. Hint: If you actively cuddle with him (e.g. circle your arms around him), he can't pop up and down as easily. If music makes you uneasy, consider singing (I used to depend on Christmas carols -- most of them are lullabies and I didn't have to think about them). Yes, it might take an hour at first. But it won't be that long forever, I can almost promise you. Especially if you actively increase the amount of exercise he gets each day!

Once that goes well, then you can begin to ease out earlier if you wish. Trying to do too much at once will make it harder, I think.


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Well you could just keep going and putting him back in his bed. You are going to have to be consistent and repetitive, and be ready to battle with him for the entire night if you have to. Maybe sitting there with him in his room, in a chair next to his bed until he is asleep, and then making it shorter and shorter amounts of time...or further and further out of the room?

For my dd we do the night time routine (bath, brushing of teeth, lotion, jammies, and then a small snack) then we go into her room and read 5 books while i rock her. Then its bed time.

Maybe if your LO knows that no matter what he is going to end up back in bed, he wont keep getting out. If you give in and he gets to go in your room, or he gets to stay up then he is just going to take the gamble of getting out of bed. You have to be consistent. And maybe pick a day, and let him be part of it. Like say "tomorrow is going to be your big boy night time night" and make it a big fun thing. Maybe try getting him books on sleeping alone in his room? Like showing other kids going to sleep in their big kid beds?

Or if he has just stopped nursing to sleep, try lying in bed with him and reading with him until he falls asleep and then making those periods shorter and shorter.


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## poppan (Mar 8, 2008)

Re: how to get him to stay in bed... I think you are just taking things too fast for him. If I read your first post correctly, he used to nurse to sleep until recently, right? I think it's expecting too much to think he can go from nursing to sleep straight to staying in his bed by himself and falling asleep. At least, it would be expecting too much of my kids.

This is a huge change for him -- I think you need to help him by taking some smaller steps towards the big goal. I'm going through a similar transition with my kids -- just in the last few weeks I've weaned them off nursing before bed. And before that, I had already worked on not nursing ALL the way down to sleep -- I would take them off and they finished falling asleep on their own.

We still cosleep and now I stay in bed with them until they fall asleep, then I can get up and do other stuff. Yes my goal eventually is for them to go to sleep without me there, but I'm doing it gradually.

This is what I'm doing right now, it's been going pretty well although it does take 45-60 minutes (with 30 minutes of that being reading/wind down time).

1. Go to our room and read books for about a half hour. When I get tired of my magazine and sense that they are suitably ready for bed, I announce that it's time to go night night.
2. I turn off the light over protests. DD continues to whine about not being able to read and that I need to turn on light.
3. I give her with her sippy cup of milk, which she likes to lie down and drink in her crib. This seems to really help her settle down so despite the cavity potential, I'm sticking with it.
4. If she is still protesting I distract her with a song or a story (usually one I've memorized because we've read it so many times). My goal is just to get her to pipe down and stay in bed.
5. When she's more settled I quiet down too and pretend to sleep -- i.e. "play dead". After 15-20 minutes she is usually asleep and I can get up and do laundry.

I don't know when I'm going to move on to the next step or even what that next step will be, but this is working OK for me right now.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

Our bedtime routine is books of his choosing and then 3 in a row that are always the same (I love you because your you, guess how much i love you, goodnight moon), ending with me turning off the lights giving him a last hug/kiss godnight and singing 'twinkle twinkle little star' and then night night and I leave. Its amazing to me that it works, but it does. And I think the 3 books in a row really, really help. Cause' he knows as soon as I start 'I love you because your you' that its almost time to goto sleep.

Sometimes he will ask for water, and I'll yell down for DH to get him a glass of water and he'll bring it up and he can drink that. But thats it. He'll often stall when I pickup 'i love you because your you' and sometimes I'l cave and read one more book, but thats it. He knows once I really start reading it, its really, truelly bedtime.

ETA: Oh and occasionally he wont' fall asleep and keep getting up and yelling for me/us (we have a gate at the top of our stairs, he can open his bedroom door and yell at us from there, but still nicen' safe). When this happens, I just go up pick him up, give him a hug/kiss and tell him its night time and to goto sleep... sometimes this will go on repeatedly for a while (longest was like an hour a couple weeks ago), but there is just NO WAY I'm reading any more books, nor is he coming downstairs or playing or whatever.


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## bright_eyes (Dec 7, 2007)

Wow, I am just loving this board right now! You are all giving great advice!

Ok, about the nursing to sleep thing- it's not a new thing that we've implemented with him. Right after his 2nd b-day, I switched nursing before books and 'taught' him to put himself to sleep without nursing (I just stayed with him in his bed while he went to sleep). But I lost my milk when I was 12 weeks pregnant and he gradually went back to nursing to sleep. He wouldn't want to nurse before books because there was no milk there, and then would beg to nurse after books, and I caved because, it didn't bother me if he nursed to sleep again (I only got him to not nurse to sleep so that he would hopefully sttn, which he does now) and it was just easier. But in the last month or two, nursing to sleep only works if he is super tired. We do the same routine, the only difference is he finishes nursing before he is asleep. Putting himself to sleep isn't a new thing for him. The big problem is that even when I'm in his room, he won't go to sleep. We'll go through the whole "I'm hungry" and "I want Daddy" and "I'm not tired" thing and then he'll shove me off his bed and get out over and over again, even when I'm in the room. I used to do the whole routine until I got him to stop nursing to sleep and then dh would take over because ds wanted him, and he would go to sleep for dh just fine. But now, it doesn't matter which parent he has in there with him, he doesn't go to sleep without a fight, a big chunk of the time, anyway.

I'm not against staying with him, I just find it hard to do when there has been a few times I've got him to stay in bed and left, and he has a great time chatting himself to sleep. So I know he can do it, and that makes it hard to stay and listen to him chat himself to sleep (when he'll actually stay in bed). I try to tell him that I'll only stay if he's quiet, but it doesn't work- he just keeps on chatting. That's usually the nights that I try to then leave his room and we end up with a fight.

Our nights are usually one of the following:
-he'll nurse, pull off, and then lie there and go to sleep fairly quickly (this doesn't happen too often)
-he nurses to sleep (this also doesn't happen often anymore)
-he fights staying in bed right from the minute he's done nursing, or shortly thereafter
-he'll stay in bed but won't be quiet and I get tired of lying there and try to leave, and then the fight ensues with me trying to get him to stay in his bed/room.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
First, I have found that over the years (DS is almost 10 and DD 6, so BTDT), few things are "forever" with kids and bedtime. Frankly, I would be concerned about getting through establishing a new routine that everyone can live with and that can be executed once you have a new baby (if I'm reading your sig correctly). Beyond that, let tomorrow take care of itself.

I think I should just try the music thing. I really think he would enjoy listening to music or stories on CD. I've tried singing to him before but he doesn't like me to. He loves listening to us tell him stories, so stories might even work better than music. Thanks for the reassurances that it won't last forever and won't necessarily mean he'll always need the music/stories to go to sleep.


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## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

I haven't read all of the replies yet, but honestly, it sounds like he just isn't tired enough at bedtime. While we do have a loose routine at bedtime, we really just watch their cues and put the kids to bed only when they are tired. Doing it this way means 3-5 minutes of a bedtime and they are out. For the night. If we try before they are ready, it's a battle...and we just don't do that anymore. If they resist bedtime, we simply assume they aren't tired, get up, and do whatever we want to do. We make the environment conducive to sleep, low lights and activity level, boring chores (computer or reading silently). We don't entertain them, we just basically let them play alone until they are really ready. No fights, no laying with them for ever, and everyone is happy. HTH


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

I think the big thing to consider here is that he is probably not tired enough, and he's three and three is all about testing mom and dad. He's asking for mom, and then asking for dad, and then asking for food, and then asking for milk, and then asking for... because asking for these things works for him. It gives him exactly what he wants...loads of attention and delaying bed time. You and DH need to sit down and work out a bedtime plan, one that both of you think will work and is reasonable, then inform DS of what the new routine is and get to it. Count on him testing you. There will be tears and tantrums and all sorts of drama, until he realizes that you aren't going to cave and bedtime means bedtime. I think he needs consistency AND limits, and once he realizes that reality is reality, he'll get with the program.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

We just did this transition w/ both of our littles. At the time I had recently nightweaned the 2 y.o. We did as pp suggested and did a routine, but also we did it in stages. At first I layed w/ them until they fell asleep, then slowly get up. Then transitioned to almost asleep and getting up and sitting in their room until asleep. Then I sit by the bed w/ them until asleep. Now we do the routine- books- teeth- etc. and then we say goodnight, turn on the nightlight and leave. The nightlight helps w/ the I am scared of the dark. We also keep a fan on high on the floor facing away for white noise.

they have never tried to get up. I think it really helped to get them used to the idea slowly. If they did get up then I would persist and put them back in bed over and over w/out engaging them. I don't do extra trips. Pee before bed and I put a cup of water by the bed.


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## hipmummy (May 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
Wow, that is an incredible jump -- from nursing to sleep to being locked in alone! There are just so many other options and ideas, I can't imagine going from such extremes!

For me, the lock would be an absolute no-go because of pure safety. If there is a fire, child absolutely must be able to get out of his room. Period. You cannot assume you would be able to get to him to release his lock. What if you were unconscious due to smoke? Therefore, no lock.

However, if both of you are frustrated by the current routine, then there are lots of alternatives.

Before starting any change though, you and DH need to realize one simple truth. You cannot FORCE someone to sleep. You can require quiet, you can require staying in bed, but you can't force someone to sleep.

Before trying to change bedtime, make some "daytime changes" to ensure he is really tired -- lots of outside play time is key. Lots of running around during the day. You may also want to look at your nap schedule (if you still have one), and move naps earlier in the day. Or perhaps he is ready to give up naps? If you can't do that (for example, if he has to nap at preschool), then maybe a later bedtime would work better.

Then figure out what your ideal bedtime routine is and stick with it for a couple of weeks. For us this is dessert/snack, bath/shower, 3 books and 3 songs before I turn out the light. Then I turn out the light and cuddle until child is asleep. This rarely takes long and I really treasure this time each day.

When we've gone through periods where child didn't want to stay in bed or wasn't tired for whatever reason, we allow them to play quietly in their rooms until they are sleepy (or read, now that they are older). But the trade off is that I'm not going to lay down again, so if they play then they have to get themselves to sleep. If they are driving my crazy with up/down/up/down stuff I generally say "I really need to go do laundry/dishes/whatever and I'll come back and check on you in 5 minutes." and left.

Any change in routine takes time to be effective. Seems like you have made several changes recently and are not being consistent with the routine. Both of these things are probably contributing to the problem. Figure out what the ideal is and ask your DH for at least a month before judging if the changes you make are effective.









:


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## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

My SIL has successfully gotten her 2.5 y/o on board w/ bedtime by using a rewards chart. After they did their new bedtime routine for 14 days he got to go to Sea World. So maybe a reward chart would work.

Please, don't lock anyone in their room! I think that would just make your future bedtimes 100x more stressful and traumatic.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bright_eyes* 
No, I completely agree. I'm not actually super stressed out by the whole bedtime thing because I know that part of the problem is the lack of consistency. The bedtime issues are fairly new, so I haven't been too stressed because I feel like if I just figure out a new routine (since the old one just isn't working- we did have one that fell apart when he stopped nursing to sleep and started wanting a bedtime snack since he's not getting milk anymore, as my milk has dried up) and then stick to the routine that we'll get back on track.

i would encourage you that the light may be just around the corner. i'm pregnant, and when my milk lessened (we still nurse, though i don't know how much she gets these days), DD went through a spell of always hungry before bed, and overnight as well. i think it was real hunger, not a ploy for more things to do at bedtime. i think when they are used to nursing at night, they really do fill their bellies overnight and without that, are missing a bunch of calories from the day.

i had to adjust -- fed her more during the day and especially at the end of the day. ask her what she wanted to eat before bed. gave her whatever she asked for. gave in when she said "hungry" just as i was drifting to sleep (didn't like it, but took her back downstairs and served her whatever she said she was hungry for. she ate it all up.)

then, after doing that for a couple of months, i guess we hit a new pattern of success with her filling up plenty during the day and not needing the overnight nursings or food, because i suddenly realized that she is sleeping through the night! (she sleeps with me in my bed, but pretty much goes all night just konked out.) this was accomplished with no tears on her part. on my part, i will admit, it was a hardship for a few months. but it's over now (the hardship) and she is sleeping through the night, and going to bed quite willingly.

good luck to you, just be gentle on the transition and expect a few setbacks for awhile.


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## poppan (Mar 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bright_eyes* 
Ok, about the nursing to sleep thing- it's not a new thing that we've implemented with him. Right after his 2nd b-day, I switched nursing before books and 'taught' him to put himself to sleep without nursing (I just stayed with him in his bed while he went to sleep). But I lost my milk when I was 12 weeks pregnant and he gradually went back to nursing to sleep. He wouldn't want to nurse before books because there was no milk there, and then would beg to nurse after books, and I caved because, it didn't bother me if he nursed to sleep again (I only got him to not nurse to sleep so that he would hopefully sttn, which he does now) and it was just easier. But in the last month or two, nursing to sleep only works if he is super tired. We do the same routine, the only difference is he finishes nursing before he is asleep. Putting himself to sleep isn't a new thing for him. The big problem is that even when I'm in his room, he won't go to sleep. We'll go through the whole "I'm hungry" and "I want Daddy" and "I'm not tired" thing and then he'll shove me off his bed and get out over and over again, even when I'm in the room. I used to do the whole routine until I got him to stop nursing to sleep and then dh would take over because ds wanted him, and he would go to sleep for dh just fine. But now, it doesn't matter which parent he has in there with him, he doesn't go to sleep without a fight, a big chunk of the time, anyway.

I'm not against staying with him, I just find it hard to do when there has been a few times I've got him to stay in bed and left, and he has a great time chatting himself to sleep. So I know he can do it, and that makes it hard to stay and listen to him chat himself to sleep (when he'll actually stay in bed). I try to tell him that I'll only stay if he's quiet, but it doesn't work- he just keeps on chatting. That's usually the nights that I try to then leave his room and we end up with a fight.

Our nights are usually one of the following:
-he'll nurse, pull off, and then lie there and go to sleep fairly quickly (this doesn't happen too often)
-he nurses to sleep (this also doesn't happen often anymore)
-he fights staying in bed right from the minute he's done nursing, or shortly thereafter
-he'll stay in bed but won't be quiet and I get tired of lying there and try to leave, and then the fight ensues with me trying to get him to stay in his bed/room.

Oh I see. I think the other mamas gave you better advice than I possibly could, I am behind you in terms of where my kids are since I am still laying down with them until they fall asleep. My only other thought was, if for some reason part of your routine for now is to stay with him in his room, and he is climbing over you and you have to chase him down the hall, I would lock the door _while you are in the room with him_ so he has nowhere to go even if he climbs over you. I did this and DS eventually stopped trying to escape.


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## Mama_2_Boy (Jun 18, 2007)

You know we _just_ have been able to convince DS to stay in bed on his own. And I'm wondering now if what has worked, would have worked if I did it 2 years ago. Anyways, he would always come out of the room and we would visibly get upset and then it was back and forth, back and forth till eventually I was so tired, I was right in the bed beside him!

So, now he has stopped coming out of the room and it took 1 week. When he would come out of the room, I would allow him to sit with me with whatever I was doing for a few minutes. Then cuddles and kisses and tell him to go back to bed. At first if he did not want to go, I would ask him "do you want me to pick you up and carry you back?" He did not so he would go himself. Maybe it's because hes 4 and a half, and that I can reason with him now.


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## mrsfrazier (Nov 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama_2_Boy* 
You know we _just_ have been able to convince DS to stay in bed on his own. And I'm wondering now if what has worked, would have worked if I did it 2 years ago. Anyways, he would always come out of the room and we would visibly get upset and then it was back and forth, back and forth till eventually I was so tired, I was right in the bed beside him!

So, now he has stopped coming out of the room and it took 1 week. When he would come out of the room, I would allow him to sit with me with whatever I was doing for a few minutes. Then cuddles and kisses and tell him to go back to bed. At first if he did not want to go, I would ask him "do you want me to pick you up and carry you back?" He did not so he would go himself. Maybe it's because hes 4 and a half, and that I can reason with him now.

Just curious what you did before he was 4 after he stopped nursing to sleep?


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bright_eyes* 
I'm not against staying with him, I just find it hard to do when there has been a few times I've got him to stay in bed and left, and he has a great time chatting himself to sleep. So I know he can do it, and that makes it hard to stay and listen to him chat himself to sleep (when he'll actually stay in bed). I try to tell him that I'll only stay if he's quiet, but it doesn't work- he just keeps on chatting. That's usually the nights that I try to then leave his room and we end up with a fight.
...

I think I should just try the music thing. I really think he would enjoy listening to music or stories on CD. I've tried singing to him before but he doesn't like me to. He loves listening to us tell him stories, so stories might even work better than music. Thanks for the reassurances that it won't last forever and won't necessarily mean he'll always need the music/stories to go to sleep.

(I don't have a 3yr old so take this with a grain of salt - its 6:30am here and I can't sleep so I'm reading online)

It sounds like you get annoyed when your DS chats himself to sleep (I think thats kind of cute btw) and my first thought was, can you slowly remove yourself from the room? So, instead of laying in bed with him while he goes to sleep you start out sitting on the floor right next to his bed until he goes to sleep, then a few feet away, then near the bedroom door (always so he can see you, or hear you) and then leave the room but stay right outside?

It sounds like he still needs you to be nearby while he's falling asleep, so maybe this would work better than a big fight?

good luck!


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## DoingDoing:Julie (May 8, 2008)

I'm reading a book called The Good Earth by pearl buck. And in it, the life of this man just wizzes by. It begins as an old man, and ends as an old man. GREAT read, by the way. But throughout the book, this man is so involved in his own wishes, whims and desires, his children are mere footnotes, and everyonce in a while his son will appear with a request and he sort of thinks to himself, "oh, my son . . ." And then, while I am reading this book, my sister (mom of 3 kids) posted about time flying by on her blog. She begged father time to give some of it back, and that she wants to see her 8 yr old daughter a baby again, and her 2.5 year old son she is eager to see grow, but terrified that his baby hood is slipping away before her eyes. That with her super busy days, time is flying by. She posted this poem:

To My Grown-up Son

"My hands were busy through the day
I didn't have much time to play
The little games you asked me to.
I didn't have much time for you.

"I'd wash your clothes, I'd sew and cook,
But when you'd bring your picture book
And ask me, please, to share your fun,
I'd say, 'A little later, son.'

"I'd tuck you in all safe at night,
And hear your prayers, turn out the light,
Then tiptoe softly to the door.
I wish I'd stayed a minute more.

"For life is short, and years rush past,
A little boy grows up so fast.
No longer is he at your side.
His precious secrets to confide.

"The picture books are put away,
There are no children's games to play,
No good night kiss, no prayers to hear.
That all belongs to yesteryear.

"My hands once busy, now lie still
The days are long and hard to fill.
I wish I might go back and do
The little things you asked me to."

Author unknown

Reading this poem, and thinking of the years ahead of me, eventually so full of leisure, makes me eager to sit with my 6 month old and rock him to sleep every night.


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## DoingDoing:Julie (May 8, 2008)

oh, I should also add, that I still have awful and traumatic memories of me crying and crying for help at night, and my parents either completely ignored me - which felt awful, or would come in and yell at me- which awfully enough felt slightly better than nothing, but still was awful. I even remember one night I wasn't tired yet, and I took out my little tiny teddy bear and a few pairs of socks and was making sleeping bag style dresses & hats with them, and talking to myself, and my father came into my bedroom in a COMPLETE rage that I wasn't in bed with my eyes closed, and when he left I was so sad, and kept thinking of my little teddy bear across the room which I was having so much fun with. And my feelings were so hurt because I didn't understand what was wrong with it!! I also have a memory of it being really hot and sticky, and I couldnt sleep and didn't know what to do, and I kept crying and my dad came in and yelled at me and then left. Please don't use these retched tactics . . . I'm a grown up, and still remember vividly how frustrating it was. Oh, and just so you guys all know, my dad was a wonderfully loving, sweet, and generous father. But he was VERY strict at bedtime.


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## Selesai (Oct 26, 2005)

My son is about a month older than yours. My thoughts:

1. Absolutely NO locking him in his room. Put your foot down on that one.

2. Consider whether his bedtime is late enough. As children get older, they need less sleep. My son used to go to bed around 8, but now he won't fall asleep until 8:30 or 9. I start the bedtime routine later, as a result.

3. My son will do the same yours does if you try to leave the room-- follow, etc. This is where I am: I don't get enough time with my children. I do not want to force DS to do something he isn't ready to do and I don't want to deny him my time and love. I have decided to make his bedtime quality time for the two of us. This is especially important as he has a younger sister (16 mo).

So, after reading a book and "blowing" out the light, I still lay down with him in bed. I cuddle him if he wants me to, I sing if he wants me to, I give him water if he wants it (he has a water bottle next to the bed). I will not give him a snack-- all eating is done before bedtime downstairs. He can nurse for a few minutes, but then we finish nursing and lay together until he sleeps. Since his bedtime is appropriate, it doesn't usually take long unless he's worked up or not feeling well.
I enjoy this time listening to DS sing or talk to me or gently fall asleep. I like to hold his little body, I enjoy laying down myself, and I think that later in his life I won't get to watch sleep overtake him as I can now. I also decide dishes can wait and that I won't let things stress me as much as they otherwise would.

If he wants to get out of bed or "find daddy," I tell him no and stop him. Then I say, "if you get out of bed again I will leave the room and you will have to fall asleep by yourself." He doesn't want that.
I do let him read a book in bed if he would like, and sometimes he will cuddle it to sleep, but that's it. I don't turn the light back on.

This works for us.
Set better boundaries. Don't cater to his every whim. Offer him food, drink, and love from DH before he goes to his room for bedtime, then be done with it. Explain to him he needs to sleep so he can get energy for the next day.

But don't lock him in his room!


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## sunflowergirll (Feb 24, 2009)

We have a TON of problems keeping DD (2.5 yrs) in bed. Often times she's overtired and ramped up. Often times she's undertired and not sleepy. She will come out of the room the minute I step out.

And by 8 pm, I'm DONE for the day. I really don't want to sit there for another 1.5 hours.

What kinda works for me is promising her I will be back in in 5 minutes. Then every few minutes, I come back in for a big hug/kiss. Most of the time she jumps/rolls around until she's finally tired and goes to sleep.

If she does get out of bed, I calmly lead her back to bed and tell her she needs to stay in bed. No food. Sippy cup of water in bed. Potty break as non-exciting as it can be. Big hugs and then a promise to be back in in a few minutes.

And bedtimes are still hard. I'm hoping it's a stage ...


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