# phimosis after circumcision - help!



## whimsymom (Jan 30, 2007)

My son was circumcised when he was 2 weeks old. I did not want to have it done, but it was important to my husband. I now really regret letting it happen.

My son is 5 weeks old and his foreskin is growing over the penis. The doctor who did the circumcision had never seen this happen before. She first prescribed antibiotics because it looked a little swollen and she wanted to be sure there wasn't an infection. We went back yesterday for a follow up and it's only gotten worse. The opening is now down to only the size of a pin, but he can still pee. The doctor had talked with a pediatric urologist who recommended a steroid cream. We are now using the cream and are going to see the urologist Monday. If the cream isn't working, they will have to do surgery to fix it

Obviously, I'm really wishing we hadn't done the circumcision at all, but I would like to find out as much as I can so we can make an informed decision on how to treat it now and I can't find anything. Has anyone experienced this or heard of it happening? I did find one article that indicates this occurred in 2.9% of the circumcisions done at one particular clinic over 5 years:
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...22534705636129
If it is this common, I can't figure out why there isn't more information. I would appreciate any help or personal experience.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

As long as he can pee- LEAVE IT ALONE.










-Angela


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## DocsNemesis (Dec 10, 2005)

It sounds like his penis is just trying to reattach the foreskin to the glans the way it was meant to be. Its actually VERY common with circumcision. His body is simply trying to repair what was done-the foreskin is normally fused to the glans in an infant and its seperated during circumcision. His body is readhearing the foreskin is all. Leave it alone, unless he CANT pee (the opening is usually very small). Do NOT try to retract it and keep it from readhearing as that is very painful and causes even more scarring. Dont let a doctor do it either. Just clean the outside of the foreskin and leave it be-the good thing is, when its fused like that it keeps it clean and helps prevent infections


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## InDaPhunk (Jun 24, 2005)

Sure she hasn't seen this before







. This happens all. the. time.

NO more surgeries. Stop seeing the dr that did the surgery and find a DOC Dr. She has no business having anything to do with penises.

Doctors Opposing Circumcision


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## dinahx (Sep 17, 2005)

I agree with PPs completely. Seems like there is still this obsession with having an exposed Glans in your family.







His Penis is trying to heal. Why subject him to MORE meddling??? The glans should naturally have a foreskin adhered to it until your son is between 4-15 years old.

And just a gentle FTR, I don't buy 'my husband made me do it'. I just encourage you to look inside your heart, because you may have done it because YOU think a penis should look/act a certain circumcised way . . .

Please let your son HEAL!


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## DocsNemesis (Dec 10, 2005)

Oh yeah-I forgot to mention that. It will naturally seperate, just like if he hadnt been circ'd, when he's older. He might even be an older teen before it happens, totally normal (my ds is 8.5 and still doesnt retract, nothing to be concerned about). Dont retract until then and once HE can retract it, teach HIM how to clean it (retract, swish it in plan water, put the foreskin back-its very complicated!! lol). Please dont get him recirc'd-you should be very thankful that he does have so much foreskin left


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DocsNemesis* 
It sounds like his penis is just trying to reattach the foreskin to the glans the way it was meant to be. Its actually VERY common with circumcision. His body is simply trying to repair what was done-the foreskin is normally fused to the glans in an infant and its seperated during circumcision. His body is readhearing the foreskin is all. Leave it alone, unless he CANT pee (the opening is usually very small). Do NOT try to retract it and keep it from readhearing as that is very painful and causes even more scarring. Dont let a doctor do it either. Just clean the outside of the foreskin and leave it be-the good thing is, when its fused like that it keeps it clean and helps prevent infections









I 100% agree.

Please MAKE SURE NO DOCTOR trys to pull his foreskin back, it is VERY important.

And PLEASE leave his penis alone already, he was sexually assaulted/mutilated just three short weeks ago; let his mind and his body heal.

This thread has alot of good info/studies/videos, please show it to your husband, just so he knows better next time http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=822675


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## bscal (Feb 13, 2006)

We had our DS circ'd. It was not something that I had given much thought to, quite honestly. All my friends irl had their sons circ'd so I didn't think it was a big deal. Until my son's 4 mos checkup when the doc said "oh, he has a penile adhesion" and forcibly retracted the skin. OUCH! Poor baby was quite sore and I felt so horrible for him. We went through months of using globs of Vaseline at every diaper change to keep it from happening again. Until I got tired of doing it and started reading more about it. Now I'm rather thankful that the doc who did his circ left so much skin and we just leave it alone. I remind his ped at every visit to leave it alone as well. (It was NOT our normal ped who retracted it.)

We plan on having more children and if we are blessed with any more sons they will not be getting circ'd.

Hugs to you, op. I know how it is to do something just to go along with DH... that's what I did. I figured he has one so he should know all about it, right? His reasons are also cultural. I really didn't have an opinion about it, kwim. Now though I do have a rather strong opinion and I refuse to put any more sons of mine through it.

Beth


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## whimsymom (Jan 30, 2007)

I didn't even know that at this point it was an option to leave it be or that it would eventually retract on it's own. I know that would have happened if it had never been cut, but that is no longer an option for us. Does anyone know someone who has had this same thing happen, left it alone and it did retract? Or is there medical information somewhere that indicates this is an option? It has closed in fairly quickly and how do we know it won't close over completely without further intervention? It's not that I don't trust your advice, but it doesn't give me much ammo to reason with my husband and a doctor when we discuss options for treatment on Monday. I would be so relieved to just leave it be, but I'm anticipating that I will be told lots of reasons not to do that.

InDaPhunk, the link you posted to doctors who oppose circumcision isn't working for me. We are seeing a different doctor who has treated many cases like this. Maybe he'll be happy to just let us leave it, but I just don't know what he'll say until we get there & I would like to be prepared.

Thanks so much for your post, Beth. After crying considerably while reading some of the more judgmental posts, it really helped to hear that others have gone through the same thing & understand the turmoil I've been through. I really did not want to have him circumcised in the first place, but I wasn't as informed as I should have been and since my husband was male, I felt he was more qualified to make the decision in this case. I do want the best for my son & I know my husband does as well. Neither of us had any evil intent. I'm not defending the decision to let him be circumcised, but I've already beaten myself up enough about it. None of us are perfect parents. Right now he is a very content, happy baby in spite of what has been done to him. I believe everyone posting here is well-meaning & I hope that you will keep getting the word out there so people can make more informed decisions than I made. However, no amount of anti-circumcision info at this point can undo what has been done. I'm just trying to be more informed now, so I can avoid making more bad decisions.


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
I didn't even know that at this point it was an option to leave it be or that it would eventually retract on it's own. I know that would have happened if it had never been cut, but that is no longer an option for us. Does anyone know someone who has had this same thing happen, left it alone and it did retract? Or is there medical information somewhere that indicates this is an option? It has closed in fairly quickly and how do we know it won't close over completely without further intervention? It's not that I don't trust your advice, but it doesn't give me much ammo to reason with my husband and a doctor when we discuss options for treatment on Monday. I would be so relieved to just leave it be, but I'm anticipating that I will be told lots of reasons not to do that.

InDaPhunk, the link you posted to doctors who oppose circumcision isn't working for me. We are seeing a different doctor who has treated many cases like this. Maybe he'll be happy to just let us leave it, but I just don't know what he'll say until we get there & I would like to be prepared.

Thanks so much for your post, Beth. After crying considerably while reading some of the more judgmental posts, it really helped to hear that others have gone through the same thing & understand the turmoil I've been through. I really did not want to have him circumcised in the first place, but I wasn't as informed as I should have been and since my husband was male, I felt he was more qualified to make the decision in this case. I do want the best for my son & I know my husband does as well. Neither of us had any evil intent. I'm not defending the decision to let him be circumcised, but I've already beaten myself up enough about it. None of us are perfect parents. Right now he is a very content, happy baby in spite of what has been done to him. I believe everyone posting here is well-meaning & I hope that you will keep getting the word out there so people can make more informed decisions than I made. However, no amount of anti-circumcision info at this point can undo what has been done. I'm just trying to be more informed now, so I can avoid making more bad decisions.

I agree it's time to put what has happened behind and figure out the most conservative way to help whimsymom. I have some thoughts, not sure if they've been mentioned yet, but here it goes. First, my guess is that the swelling which looks like infection (for which you got the ABX) is simply the penis trying to heal itself after being torn away from the glans. So it is readhearing. There has been trauma to that part and it is like a fat lip swollen perhaps a bit sore and red but not necessarily infected. Usually to diagnose infections we suggest that you have your pedi do a culture/swab. I don't think there is any chance of the foreskin sealing itself as you describe and I would say that so long as he is urinating fine there is proabably little reason for direct intervention. I suspect that he will proabably develop along the line of an intact boy and eventually the foreskin will separate. Though I have no personal experience along those lines.

I would also suggest if you want a more authoritative answer, in addition to anyone who might post here having been through a similar experience, you could consider calling NOCIRC or DOC and speaking them. They should be able to either reassure you that the treatment being suggested is correct and/or the least invasive or refer you to a pedi/urologist who is more 'intact' friendly. Their contact info can be found on their web page www.nocirc.org and don't worry they'll do their best to get you through this if you chose to call.

Hope this helps you out.


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## pantufla (Jun 7, 2007)

Whimsymom, I'm sorry you were met with such judgment.







Hang in there.


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## calngavinsmom (Feb 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
Thanks so much for your post, Beth. After crying considerably while reading some of the more judgmental posts, it really helped to hear that others have gone through the same thing & understand the turmoil I've been through. I really did not want to have him circumcised in the first place, but I wasn't as informed as I should have been and since my husband was male, I felt he was more qualified to make the decision in this case. I do want the best for my son & I know my husband does as well. Neither of us had any evil intent. I'm not defending the decision to let him be circumcised, but I've already beaten myself up enough about it. None of us are perfect parents. Right now he is a very content, happy baby in spite of what has been done to him. I believe everyone posting here is well-meaning & I hope that you will keep getting the word out there so people can make more informed decisions than I made. However, no amount of anti-circumcision info at this point can undo what has been done. I'm just trying to be more informed now, so I can avoid making more bad decisions.









s to you and your sweet little boy Momma. I am also sorry you got treated harshly here. Neither you nor your son deserves any more grief







:

I don't know if this link will help or not but I thought I'd post it in case:
http://www.rogerknapp.com/medical/circ_incomplete.htm

This site is also searchable so you might want to try looking for more info here:
http://www.cirp.org

Oh, and if you click on "scars" in my siggy, you might get a better idea of what your son actually has(it is a list of circ complications with photos)

Good luck to you guys,
Take care,
Tara


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## nini02 (Jun 28, 2007)

Hugs to you and your son mama. I'll agree with the others that say I would probably just leave it alone at this point as long he's peeing fine. Here is a quick link about adhesions: http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/ponsky2/

Quote:

RESULTS: We enrolled in our study 254 boys 1 month to 19 years 8 months old. Only 7 patients had a history of treatment of adhesion, of whom 3 had recurrent adhesions at evaluation. Patients were divided into groups based on age, including younger than 12 months (61), 13 to 60 (78), 61 to 108 (51) and 109 months old or older (64). In these groups we noted an adhesion rate of 71%, 28%, 8% and 2%, respectively. The rate of adhesions more severe than grade 1 was 30%, 10% and 0% in boys 12 months old or younger, 13 to 60 and 61 months old or older, respectively. The oldest patient with grade 3 adhesions was 31 months old. Skin bridges in 6 cases involved the circumcision line in 4.

CONCLUSIONS: Penile adhesions develop after circumcision and the incidence decreases with patient age. Although there is debate on whether to lyse these adhesions manually, our findings suggest that adhesions resolve without treatment. Based on our results we do not recommend lysing penile adhesions, except perhaps those involving the circumcision line.

Also, here is the corrected link to DOC









http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/


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## dinahx (Sep 17, 2005)

I am sorry you feel judged, but you are STILL trying to side with the doctors and your husband over your SON. PPs have provided TONS of resrouces. This is not something that has to be fixed by MORE circumcision . . . A urologist who peforms Circs for a LIVING has NO objectivity on this issue . . .

My point was just that you have to change your heart before you can change anyone's mind . . .

DHs are NOT penis experts just because they have them . . . Do you own a car? Are you an auto mechanic because you own a car?


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## carriebft (Mar 10, 2007)

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...13&postcount=2

pleeeasseee read this!


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

I'm so sorry, mama for my harsh response. It wasn't judgmental though. It just breaks my heart to read stories like yours and I cry for every baby who had to bear the horrible consequences of this horrific practice. I'm so deeply sorry.









I can only imagine how much pain you're going through right now














. As a mother who deeply regrets vaccinating my first child, I know guilt feeling all too well







. It's so hard to forgive ourselves, I was driving myself crazy with all those "this helpless baby's well-being was depending on me and I failed him", "it was my responsibility to do my homework and I didn't"







. But the simple truth is sometimes you just _don't know that you don't know_. If you don't know that something is missing, you just don't look for it.
I still deeply regret over the shots my son got, but I had to learn to forgive myself with time. We all make mistakes







.


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## whimsymom (Jan 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dinahx* 
I am sorry you feel judged, but you are STILL trying to side with the doctors and your husband over your SON. PPs have provided TONS of resrouces. This is not something that has to be fixed by MORE circumcision . . . A urologist who peforms Circs for a LIVING has NO objectivity on this issue . . .

My point was just that you have to change your heart before you can change anyone's mind . . .

DHs are NOT penis experts just because they have them . . . Do you own a car? Are you an auto mechanic because you own a car?

Actually, there were no resources in the posts before your original post and my second post except the link to DOC that did not work. I don't know how it works at your house, but here my husband and I both take responsibility for parenting decisions. When we disagree either one of us has to persuade the other or we agree to disagree and find the best compromise we can. I wouldn't be here asking for information if I didn't want what is best for my son. If you have never had your children circumcised, how can you know that this will resolve itself and not cause further complications? I've already said that I would love to leave it alone, but I need more than just my desire and a few other opinions to know that it will be the best for my son.

Thanks to all the rest of you for the resources and support. I am going through them right now!


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## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

First of all







Where I'm from, circ is usually reguarded as normal and pain-free as cutting the umbilical cord... so, I really do know there is very little IRL info, doctors just cut it off and don't know what to do from there because they were never taught, either. Just another one of societies failures there.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
I wouldn't be here asking for information if I didn't want what is best for my son. If you have never had your children circumcised, how can you know that this will resolve itself and not cause further complications? I've already said that I would love to leave it alone, but I need more than just my desire and a few other opinions to know that it will be the best for my son.

I only have a daughter (like Yulia, we vaxed our DD, and I regret it horribly... anyway, can't change the past, even though I feel horrible about it),... but I'm pretty well read on circ. I fell into the rabbit hole and was just so horrified by it all that I read everything I could get my hands on, became a regular here and a couple other "foreskin related" sites.

THE DOCTORS USUALLY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FORESKIN. Urologists are paid to cut the "pesky" foreskin off, not try to save it. All they learn in med school is to cut it off. Really, maybe 3 paragraphs in a textbook. Doctor's Opposing Circ would be the absolute best place to start for foreskin-friendly doctors. They will take a conservative route and try to keep your DS from further damage or amputation.

The doctor who did the circ said she had never seen the foreskin heal back to the glans before??? Has she ever done a follow-up on a boy she circ'ed??? There is a bond between the foreskin and glans at birth. It gradually breaks down until the foreskin finally detatches, making it possible to retract, if the opening of the forskin is also loose enough. The bond is like the bond between your fingernail and nailbed. Okay-- now, in order to be circ'ed, the surgeon has to break that open and retract the foreskin. That leaves an open wound (just like if you rip off a fingernail). Now, if you think about your fingernail and imagine that your fingernails were supposed to painlessly come loose during puberty... Well, would you use steroid creams that mimic puberty hormones on an infant? It is just rushing a process that will happen on it's own time... Now, if you let that bond heal to itself (the foreskin is NOT going to grow over the ureter {pee} opening, there would have to be a wound created on that area for it to fuse), it will grow right back almost as good as it was origionally. Just like if you have ever had a fingernail rip up underneath. There are a few studies floating around about how those adhesions heal and release on their own, *just like an intact foreskin.* As long as he can pass urine, leave it alone. Really. It sounds bad, and sounds like it should be illegal, but MOST DOCTORS HAVE NO CLUE WHAT TO DO WITH FORESKIN EXCEPT CUT IT OFF. As your son is now, he should have enough shaft skin to prevent "marital" problems later in life. If they keep messing with it, trying to retract (open that bond again and again), it will most likely end up in "true adhesions" aka scar tissue. Another surgery will remove nerves, blood vessels and leave scars. Scar tissue has no feeling in an area meant for extreme feeling









Crap, brb...


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## InDaPhunk (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
InDaPhunk, the link you posted to doctors who oppose circumcision isn't working for me. We are seeing a different doctor who has treated many cases like this. Maybe he'll be happy to just let us leave it, but I just don't know what he'll say until we get there & I would like to be prepared.

Sorry that didn't work, I have no clue why it didn't







. It's correct now.

Also, contact Marilyn Milos if you can (I think you can find her info if you do a quick MDC search or maybe someone else can post it here). Talk to her and a DOC dr before you make any decisions. Please. I wasn't kidding when I rolled my eyes that the dr hadn't seen it before because what you're describing is probably the number one complication for circumcision (except for maybe meatal stenosis which is also v.v. common). I agree with PP that maybe it's just because the dr never sees a penis post circumcision bc really, this happens allllll the time. Go to a mainstream circumcision board and search "adhesions" and you'll see what I mean. Surgery will not fix adhesions and _the last thing your DS needs is more skin taken off_.

It truly does come down to "if he can pee then leave it alone". That is all you need to know at this point- other than it will resolve itself over time.

I feel bad for you that some people here acted "harshly"- not that I think they were wrong but that you feel it was throwing salt in a wound. I can explain why they did- I think. The thought of someone cutting even more skin off of your DS's penis scares the absolute shit out of them. It's so terrifying to think that it may happen again....it truly is just upsetting to us *for* your son. If we could get on our hands and knees and beg you to not let them touch your DS's penis with a knife every one of us would do it. So please know that the harshness came from a good place, even if it felt terrible to read. The fact that you're still seeing the dr that did the surgery and that you're going to a urologist recommended by this person makes us think that the advice you're getting is extremely biased. And if the urologist "has seen many cases like this" then how could the initial dr not know that this is a common result of circumcision? Clearly, it happens often. Remember that they stand to make money from surgery, therefore their agenda is not the same as yours and they may not have your DS's best interest at heart. But then thixle said everything better than I could.

Please continue to come here for discussion. We want to help you through this. I know it is difficult







.

edited to add: Oh yes, and as for the dr being "happy to just let us leave it".... you must remember that _*this is your son*_, you make medical decisions for him and you don't have to go by his recommendations. He doesn't have to "let" you do anything. You can get as many second, third and fourth opinions as you want. DS is urinating normally so this is not an emergent case so take your time. As much as you need.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

There are several studies which show leaving it alone is less traumatic & has better results than tearing it back, which is likely what the doctor will want to do. Either that or they'll want to cut more off, which will make it even more likely to cause your ds problems as an adult.

I'm sure someone has the link to at least one of the studies.

Here's a link to a post that seems to have some info that might help you
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...44&postcount=6


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

How it will be fixed is the Dr will either A) recirc cutting more skin off in which case that will result in the possible complication of him not having enough skin for a erection when he is older B) the Dr will take a metal instrument and forcibly seperate what is left of the foreskin from the glans and you then willl have to keep retracting it and keeping it coated in something to prevent it reattaching.

Neither of those options are very appealing at all.









He migh only cut a tiny bit more off but then you still risk the to much gone or it reattaching yet again like it has this time.

We had a poster who's son went in for the circ and the dad changed his mind after the foreskin and glans had already been seperated. He grabed his son and ran. His ds though not cut on has since healed and has no complications suggesting that he wont retract naturally on his own later on down the road.

Unless your ds cannot pee it should be left alone. Period.


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## Fi. (May 3, 2005)

Not to sound like a b**ch (because that's not my intent of tone at ALL) but of COURSE it's swollen - it's a healing wound. Ever have a cut that swoll up (and maybe itched a little) while it was healing? I know I have and that was just on my arm. This was the turning of an internal organ to an external one. Swelling is not irrational at all.

Adhesions happen in about 71% of cut males, they usually release on their own, sometimes they won't. However unless it's adhered AT THE SCAR LINE (which does NOT sound like what you're describing at all) that can't be known or fixed right now. Tearing the adhesions can and usually WILL cause scarring (which will lead to him losing even more penile sensation) and possibly re-adhesions that could lead to skin bridging.

The links have already been posted for you, cirp and circumstitions have more, I was hoping to just give you a more down straight forward point of view.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
We had a poster who's son went in for the circ and the dad changed his mind after the foreskin and glans had already been seperated. He grabed his son and ran. His ds though not cut on has since healed and has no complications suggesting that he wont retract naturally on his own later on down the road.

I remember him!







Father_of_Blake right?

He's a hero!!!







:


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## dinahx (Sep 17, 2005)

Quote:

it truly is just upsetting to us *for* your son. If we could get on our hands and knees and beg you to not let them touch your DS's penis with a knife every one of us would do it. So please know that the harshness came from a good place, even if it felt terrible to read. The fact that you're still seeing the dr that did the surgery and that you're going to a urologist recommended by this person makes us think that the advice you're getting is extremely biased.
Yes, you said it better than I could!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:

it truly is just upsetting to us *for* your son. If we could get on our hands and knees and beg you to not let them touch your DS's penis with a knife every one of us would do it. So please know that the harshness came from a good place, even if it felt terrible to read. The fact that you're still seeing the dr that did the surgery and that you're going to a urologist recommended by this person makes us think that the advice you're getting is extremely biased.








: you need to get as far away from the dr who did the circ and find another urologist who isnt affiliated with the Dr. for another opinion. This dr who did the circ on your son will do everything in her power to make herself look good because there is no way she is going to admite she screwed up big time (doing the circ at all in the first place)

There are Dr's out there who actually know something about the penis but they can be hard to find.


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## MCKH (Jun 26, 2006)

Please get as many opinions as you need to find someone who supports leaving the poor baby alone and who will work with you to keep an eye on things without setting up another surgery! You say your baby is happy - he is no longer in pain. He can pee. That is all his penis is supposed to be doing right now, so leave it be. Do not let some culturally-biased man who profits from circumcision talk you into further cutting your son's penis!


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## DocsNemesis (Dec 10, 2005)

Please contact DOC. Even if they cant refer you to a good urologist (they referred me to one as well as several foreskin friendly peds, but I live in the same area as they do so I'm not sure how many resources they'd have in your area), they can still provide you with medical info saying exactly what we have and give you a recommendation. These ARE doctors, most practicing, so I cant see their info as being something your dh or child's doc can ignore.

You are right, my ds is intact so I have no first hand experience in this, just what I've read and seen. However, my friend has circ'd her 3 boys and I see them/change them often. One of her boys has a LOT of foreskin left (so much for making them all look the same right? heh) and it readheared just as you have described. Her ped also told her to just leave it alone and that it would retract on its own over time. Again, as long as he can pee, its normal, his body is just doing what its supposed to and trying to heal. Its a good thing!

I know you feel like people are putting you down and whatnot but most, if not all, are simply trying to help you and arnt trying to make you feel bad. Whats done is done, its just no one wants even more damage done if it can be avoided, you know? I wont lie, I almost had my first son circ'd (he was spared because my insurance didnt cover it and I'm cheap







) and if I had, I can safely say I would have been thrilled if he'd been left with that much foreskin after I found out what I did about it. You have a lucky little guy, even if it doesnt seem like it yet. I'll see if my dh has any links on what is going on with your dude-and again, please contact DOC.


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

http://www.kidsgrowth.com/resources/...il.cfm?id=3420

A recent study in the Journal of Urology followed 254 circumcised boys to see what happened to their penile adhesions. Only seven patients had been treated for adhesions. Despite this, the prevalence of adhesions decreased dramatically with age to:

71% of boys age ‹12 months
28% of boys ages 1-5 years old
8% of boys ages 5-9
2% ages 9-18


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## whimsymom (Jan 30, 2007)

Thank you for all the help. I have talked with someone at nocirc and got the number for a doctor. I left a message, but haven't actually talked to him. I do feel much more informed now and more comfortable insisting that we leave it alone. I do wish I had taken the time to learn this much before he was cut in the first place.

To those of you who feel bad for my son, thank you and please do believe that I do feel horrible that he has gone through this. It hurts so much because I do care about him and feel the responsibility and guilt of having let it happen. I dread what further complications may be ahead and I want to do everything I can to minimize the damage.


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## carriebft (Mar 10, 2007)

I'm so glad they were able to help. please let us know how the appointment goes, how your son is doing and how you feel about the doctor they recommended


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## father_of_blake (Mar 7, 2008)

We wish you the best of luck with your son.


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## whimsymom (Jan 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *father_of_blake* 
We wish you the best of luck with your son.

Thanks. I just read your story. It sounds so much like what we went through until the part where you ran. I insisted that my husband go with my son to comfort him. He did and still doesn't think it was a big deal. I guess maybe the anesthesia they used worked well or our poor son just has a high tolerance for pain. I know he wanted what was best for his son & still does.


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## father_of_blake (Mar 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 

We had a poster who's son went in for the circ and the dad changed his mind after the foreskin and glans had already been seperated. He grabed his son and ran. His ds though not cut on has since healed and has no complications suggesting that he wont retract naturally on his own later on down the road.

Unless your ds cannot pee it should be left alone. Period.

How will I know this has happen? I'm not worried if he never retracts because I know thats fine as long as he is peeing. But I guess I won't know if any real damage has been done until my son retracts himself to see if the object they use for breaking the foreskin's bond has damaged his frenulum, right?


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## tlh (Oct 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *father_of_blake* 
How will I know this has happen? I'm not worried if he never retracts because I know thats fine as long as he is peeing. But I guess I won't know if any real damage has been done until my son retracts himself to see if the object they use for breaking the foreskin's bond has damaged his frenulum, right?

I don't think it is the frenulum that you have to worry about but the whole foreskin.The only thing that could happen as far as I know is that too much scarring has happened because of breaking the adhesions and you probably won't know if that has happened until your son is a teenager or starts to masturbate and he says something is wrong which I doubt he will do.So you are going to have to tell him what happened to him and ask if he can fully and easily retract by the time he is 16-20 yrs.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

: Make sure to talk to him about it when he is old enough. So that he wont be one who ends up circed as a adult due to "problems" You wont know until he starts the retraction process and see if it releases all the way around. There is a possiblity that a spot or 2 might turn into skin bridges but that will be a easy enough fix with a shot of local and possibly a stitch. Maybe even just stretching and no cutting if he really works at it.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
As long as he can pee- LEAVE IT ALONE.










-Angela









:


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
If you have never had your children circumcised, how can you know that this will resolve itself and not cause further complications?



Why ask the question if you aren't going to trust the answers you get?

No, you can't undo the past. But two negatives do NOT make a positive. Don't cut your son again.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
Thanks. I just read your story. It sounds so much like what we went through until the part where you ran. I insisted that my husband go with my son to comfort him. He did and still doesn't think it was a big deal. I guess maybe the anesthesia they used worked well or our poor son just has a high tolerance for pain. I know he wanted what was best for his son & still does.

Some babies pass out from the shock. It looks like they are asleep.


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## Tinijocaro (Jan 4, 2003)

My two intact boys had nothing more than a pinhole to pee through. It's completely normal. Don't let your doctor tell you there is a problem. Your son's penis is just trying to heal and if you leave it alone, it will begin to dettach from the head just as the uncut foreskin does. It could be a couple years, or it could be 12 years, as it was for my older son.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
My son was circumcised when he was 2 weeks old. I did not want to have it done, but it was important to my husband. I now really regret letting it happen.

My son is 5 weeks old and his foreskin is growing over the penis. The doctor who did the circumcision had never seen this happen before. She first prescribed antibiotics because it looked a little swollen and she wanted to be sure there wasn't an infection. We went back yesterday for a follow up and it's only gotten worse. The opening is now down to only the size of a pin, but he can still pee. The doctor had talked with a pediatric urologist who recommended a steroid cream. We are now using the cream and are going to see the urologist Monday. If the cream isn't working, they will have to do surgery to fix it

Obviously, I'm really wishing we hadn't done the circumcision at all, but I would like to find out as much as I can so we can make an informed decision on how to treat it now and I can't find anything. Has anyone experienced this or heard of it happening? I did find one article that indicates this occurred in 2.9% of the circumcisions done at one particular clinic over 5 years:
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...22534705636129
If it is this common, I can't figure out why there isn't more information. I would appreciate any help or personal experience.


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## whimsymom (Jan 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
Why ask the question if you aren't going to trust the answers you get?

I think I need to clarify why I asked that questions. First, of all I only intended this question to the posts that were screaming at me not to cut my son, but not giving me any reasons to back up that advice. Second, I didn't mean that I intended not to take any of the advice given here because it was coming from people whose sons weren't circumcised. I was just asking for more info to back up the answers. I was sure you all have a set of knowledge & resources that led you to your conclusions and I wanted that information. I don't know you, so unless you give me more than just your opinion, it doesn't make any sense for me to blindly accept that anymore than I want to blindly accept what the doctors tell me. I already made a really bad decision based on well intended, but incomplete & wrong information. If I didn't want an alternative to having my son cut again, why would I have chosen this forum for advice? Most of you seem to understand that and have given me a lot of help. I feel much more educated on what is happening with my son now and many of my fears about letting it be have been eased. I'm not writing this toward any of you, just to the few who seem determined that I'm somehow out to hurt my son. If you hope to persuade more parents to leave their sons intact, I think you will be much more successful approaching them from the perspective that they do care about their sons & provide them the information to make the right choice.


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## lirpasirhc (Oct 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
Why ask the question if you aren't going to trust the answers you get?

isn't that what AP-type parents do all the time with mainstream doctors? we ask the doctors questions, get info from other sources, and decide if we trust the doctors' answers.

i think that in general parents are way more likely to trust a doctor whom they talk to face to face than a group of strangers on the internet.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
I feel much more educated on what is happening with my son now and many of my fears about letting it be have been eased.

i'm so glad that you found resources to help you and your son!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
If you hope to persuade more parents to leave their sons intact, I think you will be much more successful approaching them from the perspective that they do care about their sons & provide them the information to make the right choice.

i agree with this 100%. i think that if whimsymom had been less resolved to find more resources to help her son, she might have left this forum before she found any helpful resources.

thinking about circ makes me feel physically ill, but i think that if we show parents a little more compassion, they will be more receptive to thinking about what circ actually is.


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## InDaPhunk (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
We are now using the cream and are going to see the urologist Monday.

Please let us know how it goes tomorrow. Don't let the dr pull the skin back....and by "pull" I mean "rip". It will most likely cause bleeding and it will _definitely_ hurt and there's no theraputic reason to do it. Oy, I shudder to think about that. GL and hope that it all goes well.

April


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## Microsoap (Dec 29, 2005)

: And please, please guard your son's genitals like a hawk so the doctor doesn't retract his foreskin (like, be physically right next to him/her w/ your hands ready to slap). A forced retraction will only cause your son more unnecessary pain and damage (scarring).


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## neostudded (Sep 5, 2007)

Good luck


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Best of luck and like the pp's have said make sure no one pushes back his foreskin remnent. All that will do is cause pain, bleeding and more scare tissue.


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## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

Hope it goes well tomorrow. Just wanting to echo everyone else-- don't let anyone push, pull or retract the foreskin. It happens in a second. Heck, it happens if your daughter has labial adhesions! Happened to us, thankfully, it healed well, but the doc did it completely without warning, and it did hurt, and DD bled.







: I had no clue a doc would do that. I always thought it was "if she can pee, leave it alone." Didn't know the doctor I saw that time didn't know better-- and she was female! Some docs aren't very open to "current literature" or just don't care because the problem is "fixed" or want more $ to fix a problem they created...

Good luck at the doc tomorrow. Don't be afraid to be firm and assertive with the doc. Think about it this way, if it were your daughter, would you want them poking and prodding and ripping? Nope. I've found it unavoidable (because i ony have a DD) to compare what is done to genitalia in our country boys versus girls. The big difference is it is illegal to do to girls since 1996. So docs with training after 1996 know a little about treating female genitalia... wish it would catch up with the boys.

Hope you luck out and get a knowledgeable doctor.


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## Tinijocaro (Jan 4, 2003)

Before the doctor even examines your little one, let him know that you do not want him to separate the foreskin in any way from the glans. He will probably tell you why he "needs" to, just be firm and say you do not give permission to retract, separate, or in any way manipulate the foreskin. And no, he does not need to "see" the glans. It is still there, it hasn't disappeared. His main concern should be whether or not your son is peeing fine.


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## dinahx (Sep 17, 2005)

Yes, I am VERY scared for you to go to the Urologist again. His/Her BUSINESS is Circumcision and I believe they are going to try to explain to you every reason in the book for forcible retraction, more circumcison.  I REALLY hope I am wrong, but unfortunatly I suspect I am correct. Have you thought about cancelling until you can find a foreskin friendly doctor???


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Where are you from? Who is this Urologist you're going to see tomorrow? We will help you check this doctor out and if he is like most American doctors who are ignroant of the normal male anatomy (the foreksin is normal) DON'T GO TO THAT DOCTOR PLEASE! We will help you find a good foreskin friendly doctor. PLEASE PLEASE DON'T LET ANYONE CAUSE ANYMORE HARM TO YOUR SON!!!


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lirpasirhc* 
isn't that what AP-type parents do all the time with mainstream doctors? we ask the doctors questions, get info from other sources, and decide if we trust the doctors' answers.

i think that in general parents are way more likely to trust a doctor whom they talk to face to face than a group of strangers on the internet.

.


BUT you're paying a doctor for his/her services, so it's ok to be demanding with a doctor.

However, when you're asking strangers on the internet to take their (unpaid) time to give you information and resources, perhaps you (people in general) could be less demanding and more polite about how you ask for reassurance regarding what they say.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

.


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## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

whimsymom:
I do not understand why you are being attacked for asking for more information. I think that you would be wrong to blindly accept _anyone's_ advice









I am truly baffled at some of the things that people are saying to you.









I hope that you can just take the helpful information and ignore the rest. Good luck with your son, you sound like a very strong woman!


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

:


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## nini02 (Jun 28, 2007)

I agree Toolip, I'm totally thrown by some of these replies.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Toolip* 
whimsymom:
I do not understand why you are being attacked for asking for more information. I think that you would be wrong to blindly accept _anyone's_ advice









I am truly baffled at some of the things that people are saying to you.









I hope that you can just take the helpful information and ignore the rest. Good luck with your son, you sound like a very strong woman!

I'm the last person who would ever want to do that!!! Please correct me if I'm out of line with my post. I'm trying to be supportive and helpful but if you perceive my post to indicate otherwise, rebuke me. Its the only way I'll ever learn.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fruitful womb* 
Where are you from? Who is this Urologist you're going to see tomorrow? We will help you check this doctor out and if he is like most American doctors who are ignroant of the normal male anatomy (the foreksin is normal) DON'T GO TO THAT DOCTOR PLEASE! We will help you find a good foreskin friendly doctor. PLEASE PLEASE DON'T LET ANYONE CAUSE ANYMORE HARM TO YOUR SON!!!


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

I went back to read this thread more closely.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
I think I need to clarify why I asked that questions. First, of all I only intended this question to the *posts that were screaming at me not to cut my son, but not giving me any reasons to back up that advice.* Second, I didn't mean that I intended not to take any of the advice given here because it was coming from people whose sons weren't circumcised. I was just asking for more info to back up the answers. I was sure you all have a set of knowledge & resources that led you to your conclusions and I wanted that information. I don't know you, so unless you give me more than just your opinion, it doesn't make any sense for me to blindly accept that anymore than I want to blindly accept what the doctors tell me. I already made a really bad decision based on well intended, but incomplete & wrong information. If I didn't want an alternative to having my son cut again, why would I have chosen this forum for advice? Most of you seem to understand that and have given me a lot of help. I feel much more educated on what is happening with my son now and many of my fears about letting it be have been eased. I'm not writing this toward any of you, just to the few who seem determined that I'm somehow out to hurt my son. If you hope to persuade more parents to leave their sons intact, I think you will be much more successful approaching them from the perspective that they do care about their sons & provide them the information to make the right choice.

My ds1 was circumcised. The reason I would go against a doctor cutting anymore than is already cut, is because I made the assumption that your ds could pee.

#1. If the skin is adhered to the glans, he has a good chance of lengthening the foreskin he has left. This is a good thing. My ds had hardly ZERO skin left but what was left did re-adhere and it resulted in a buried penis. I was advised to separate the glans from the attached skin, daily. I didn't do it. As he grew, more skin grew. Then it separated on its own when he was 3 yrs old. Great, but it still wasn't enough skin to accommodate normal childhood erections (can be caused without being aroused: I wanted to be clear on that). This was excruciating for him. He would have SCREAMING spells out of nowhere, in the store, the car, at church. The screams would last anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes long.









There just wasn't enough skin.

I have to go, baby is crying. I'm trying to help. I'm sorry for what you're going through.


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## InDaPhunk (Jun 24, 2005)

whimsymom-

So how did it go today?


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## whimsymom (Jan 30, 2007)

The doctor was very gentle with DS. He did give some good news that he thought it is unlikely DS will get to the point that he can't pee or that that was any other immediate danger, which was a huge relief to me. Otherwise his opinion was pretty depressing. He said there is no need to do anything in any certain time frame, but he doesn't think that his foreskin will ever be able to retract without surgery. He said this is "true phimosis" as opposed to the kind of phimosis in intact boys. What makes it different is that DS has so much scar tissue. The pinhole that he can pee through is a tight ring of scar tissue and scar tissue does not stretch like regular foreskin. It's worse than an adhesion where a small part is attached because the scar tissue is so tight and all the way around. I'm not going to take this as the final word, but it does make me very sad.

I would definitely like a second opinion. We'll be in the San Diego area until December and then in Seattle. Can anyone recommend a doctor in either place? I haven't heard back from the doctors recommended by nocirc, but neither are in this area and I can't blame them for not wanting to volunteer their time for a phone consultation when the damage is already done. I might try to call again this week.

I'm sorry if my questions have sounded demanding. I didn't intend that. I assumed you would only take the time to answer if you wanted to help & I think my desperation probably came across as more demanding. I do appreciate all the time you've invested in helping me.


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
He said this is "true phimosis" as opposed to the kind of phimosis in intact boys

this doctor is SOOOOOOOO full of $%^&&**((! "true phimosis" can NOT be diagnosed before puberty!
Don't worry, mama. Your son will most likely be just fine. All you need to do is to make SURE NO ONE (doctors, day care workers, family members who watch him) retracts him. If possible, let your son have as much diaper free time as possible, so he will be playing with his penis (my son is 3y.o. and is not even close to being retractable. He plays with his penis alot and this way is helping the prosess along).


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

As long as he can pee, he is fine. Even IF he needs a surgery, please let HIM make this decision about HIS body when he is old enough. Perhaps, when he is older (16 or so) if indeed it doesn't retract on its own, simple stretching exercises will do the job just fine.


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## paphia (Jun 22, 2007)

I would also be wary of assuming that your son has "true" phimosis. He has lots and lots of time to heal. He probably doesn't follow up with patients who do heal on their own and can retract by puberty. Or, he may have been trying to cover himself by putting out the worst-case scenario.

I'm sorry you're going through so much stress right now. I hope you can find the resources you need to get that second opinion.


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
The doctor was very gentle with DS. He did give some good news that he thought it is unlikely DS will get to the point that he can't pee or that that was any other immediate danger, which was a huge relief to me. Otherwise his opinion was pretty depressing. He said there is no need to do anything in any certain time frame, but he doesn't think that his foreskin will ever be able to retract without surgery. He said this is "true phimosis" as opposed to the kind of phimosis in intact boys. What makes it different is that DS has so much scar tissue. The pinhole that he can pee through is a tight ring of scar tissue and scar tissue does not stretch like regular foreskin. It's worse than an adhesion where a small part is attached because the scar tissue is so tight and all the way around. I'm not going to take this as the final word, but it does make me very sad.

I would definitely like a second opinion. We'll be in the San Diego area until December and then in Seattle. Can anyone recommend a doctor in either place? I haven't heard back from the doctors recommended by nocirc, but neither are in this area and I can't blame them for not wanting to volunteer their time for a phone consultation when the damage is already done. I might try to call again this week.

I'm sorry if my questions have sounded demanding. I didn't intend that. I assumed you would only take the time to answer if you wanted to help & I think my desperation probably came across as more demanding. I do appreciate all the time you've invested in helping me.

Thank you for the update.

I can see what you're talking about and it makes sense. A scar isn't going to be as pliable as skin because a scar isn't a stretching connective tissue.

I'm going to do some research for you and see what I can find. It might be a day or two before I can post anything - if I can find anything relevant.

In the mean time I'd recommend applying Evening Primrose Oil on his scar.
EPO helped break down the scar tissue I had after a labial tear when ds#2 was born.


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## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
The doctor was very gentle with DS. He did give some good news that he thought it is unlikely DS will get to the point that he can't pee or that that was any other immediate danger, which was a huge relief to me. Otherwise his opinion was pretty depressing. He said there is no need to do anything in any certain time frame, but he doesn't think that his foreskin will ever be able to retract without surgery. He said this is "true phimosis" as opposed to the kind of phimosis in intact boys. What makes it different is that DS has so much scar tissue. The pinhole that he can pee through is a tight ring of scar tissue and scar tissue does not stretch like regular foreskin. It's worse than an adhesion where a small part is attached because the scar tissue is so tight and all the way around. I'm not going to take this as the final word, but it does make me very sad.

I would definitely like a second opinion.

Very, very glad to hear the doc is not pushing for immediate surgery!
I believe he only called it "true phimosis" because he had been circ'ed and the "origional seal" had already been broken. Yulia is right, it can't be diagnosed until after puberty.

You know how scars fade over time? Well, in 13-16 years, that scar tissue is going to be MUCH smaller in proportion to the size of the penis, and is going to break down and fade quite a bit. And yep, steroid creams at that time could very well help release the adhesions, as could gentle stretching. It is very true that scar tissue doesn't have the same elasticity as unbroken skin, but it's not a complete loss. Look into foreskin restoration (Doug's Manual Restoration Site is all drawings and info, very unintimidating, good starting point), and you will see different methods of breaking down the scar tissue, different oils to use, etc.

Hey... just had a thought: evening primrose oil is used internally for mom's that have had episiotomies to soften and break down scar tissue. I see no reason what so ever that you wouldn't be able to put a dab of EPO daily on your son until he is out of diapers! That would definately help the scar situation and not cross any boundaries-- I'm not at all suggesting you start restoring your infant's foreskin, just that you have the info to be able to present to him when he is older... and applying a natural oil after a bath to reduce scar tissue sounds like a good idea to me.

ETA: You know, I should really just read the responses before posting


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thixle* 
Hey... just had a thought: evening primrose oil is used internally for mom's that have had episiotomies to soften and break down scar tissue. I see no reason what so ever that you wouldn't be able to put a dab of EPO daily on your son until he is out of diapers! That would definately help the scar situation and not cross any boundaries-- I'm not at all suggesting you start restoring your infant's foreskin, just that you have the info to be able to present to him when he is older... and applying a natural oil after a bath to reduce scar tissue sounds like a good idea to me.









Wow! you said that way better than I did.


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## InDaPhunk (Jun 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
I would definitely like a second opinion. We'll be in the San Diego area until December and then in Seattle. Can anyone recommend a doctor in either place? I haven't heard back from the doctors recommended by nocirc, but neither are in this area and I can't blame them for not wanting to volunteer their time for a phone consultation when the damage is already done. I might try to call again this week.

I think Dr Paul Fleiss is in LA which is only about 1.5 hours from San Diego, I'd try to get an appt with him. I'd call the DOC drs again and also check to see if there are any more DOC drs in the SD/LA area to consult with. Seattle should have some intact friendly drs there.

I wouldn't worry too much about what the dr said, though I know that's easier said then done. You have a long, long way to go and his penis has a lot of growing to do. The descriptions I've read of adhesions sound exactly like what you're describing, complete adherance all the way around, and most of the drs advise moms of those boys to just let it be, it will resolve around 3 or more- and these are often moms that are still pro circumcision







: and are on pro circumcision boards (I troll occasionally to see what's up with the 'other' side







). Your DS is still sooo little and as long as he can pee I would just let it go and see what happens, try not to worry _too_ much. Luckily, the body has an amazing capability to heal itself, just nurse him as long as possible and feed him a healthy diet, see what happens in a few years.


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## latinalonestar (Jan 26, 2008)

Hugs momma.









Please leave it alone. I know you are nervous about everything right now, all first time mommies are. That was me 5 months ago. Most the members here have been researching for YEARS about circ. Doctors are not even taught about foreskin in med school. They are only taught about how to cut them off. If you look at the NOCIRC website it explains how most parents of intact children have more knowledge about foreskin than doctors. This is so true!!! Franklyspeaking is extremely knowledgeable about foreskin, forced retraction, and circ. Maybe you can PM him for reassurance. If you babe can urinate then everything is working as it should. No need to worry about future issues. Those can be resolved if necessary when the time comes. As far as the steroid cream. I would stop doing that if he is urinating find. When you stop the cream the foreskin will just go back to a small hole b/c your son doesn't yet have the hormones himself. If by puberty it is a problem, then the steroid cream can be used. Let your little guy heal. His body is doing what it should and he is lucky for that b/c foreskin is extremely important to the male sex organ. Sadly your husband doesn't understand this b/c he doesn't have it. Maybe you can point your hubby to some reading about the functions. There is a sticky with links for you to browse.

My sons opening is tiny, he even sprays a funny direction when he pees. It is perfectly normal in infancy and childhood. Your little guy will be okay so long as you LEAVE IT ALONE.

I know this is a time when you feel very insecure. Please trust your instincts. My only regrets for my son have been the times I didn't follow my instincts.

(((HUGS)))


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## Microsoap (Dec 29, 2005)

many, many complications of circumcision in picture form to various degrees deformities:
http://www.circumstitions.com/Complic.html#major


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:

I would stop doing that if he is urinating find. When you stop the cream the foreskin will just go back to a small hole b/c your son doesn't yet have the hormones himself. If by puberty it is a problem, then the steroid cream can be used.








: this steroid cream serves to purpose right now and will give the impression it is helping only for things to go back the way they were after you stop using it.


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## DocsNemesis (Dec 10, 2005)

I'm in the Seattle area Whimseymom







I have an awsome, foreskin friendly ped on the eastside (in Kirkland) who I trust whole heartedly. Maybe you could give her a visit and see what she says. If she thinks there is a problem, she probably knows of a good urologist. Her name is Donna Zimburean at Totem Lake Pediatrics. You could ask DOC again-they are located in Seattle and I know they had a couple on their list in the area. Or if all else fails-go to Childrens and find a urologist there. I have never had a problem with anyone there-they are very knowledgable and are also VERY good about keeping kids comfy and not causing pain unless they seriously have to. In fact, I'll ask my ped next time I go in if she has any recommendations around here.

Hugs-and I'm glad they arnt pushing you to do anything right now


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## Fi. (May 3, 2005)

Quote:

and I can't blame them for not wanting to volunteer their time for a phone consultation when the damage is already done. I might try to call again this week.
What makes you think that? Marilyn Milos, the founder of NOCIRC, has 3 circumcised sons. I'm going to guarentee she understands your position on this one.


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fi.* 
What makes you think that? Marilyn Milos, the founder of NOCIRC, has 3 circumcised sons. I'm going to guarentee she understands your position on this one.

She is a RN, by the way and is awesome. OP, you can easily contact her over the phone.


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## NettleTea (Aug 16, 2007)

Whimsymom, good luck to you. It is obvious you care a lot about your son. I am so sorry for the false accusations and rudeness that you've experienced in this thread.


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## whimsymom (Jan 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *latinalonestar* 
most parents of intact children have more knowledge about foreskin than doctors.

I'm starting to see how true this is. Thank you for all the advice and information. I'm not very good with quoting more than one PP, but you've all offered very helpful info. It does make sense that the scar tissue that looks like it covers such a large area now will be very tiny compared to a full grown penis. The restoration site definitely gives me a much better idea of what can be done. Someone who was circumcised at 15 must have a lot more scar tissue than my baby. So I'm feeling better. Still scared and sad, but a little more hopeful. We've stopped the steroid & I'm going to get evening primrose oil. I would still like to find a doctor I trust to give us the best options. I think DH would feel more comfortable with that. He's not pushing to do surgery right away, but he's pretty willing to accept what the doctor said. I'm sure it might just take a while to hear back from DOC doctors or nocirc. When I talked to Marilyn on the phone, she asked me to let her know how it goes, so I'm sure if I don't reach the ones she gave me, she would have more ideas. When we get to Washington, I can at least try the one DocsNemesis recommended. I still welcome any other additional info. Thanks!


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## jserral (Apr 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
Someone who was circumcised at 15 must have a lot more scar tissue than my baby.

From what I have seen it is more so the opposite. I have seen more adult circs that had minimal/almost nonexistent scars. I actually cant recall seeing an infant circ with the same minimal results...and I am a member of a restoring website where plenty of images are available, perhaps they exist, but I dont remember seeing any. It must be easier to minimize the appear of scars in a fully/mostly developed penis.


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## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jserral* 
From what I have seen it is more so the opposite. I have seen more adult circs that had minimal/almost nonexistent scars. I actually cant recall seeing an infant circ with the same minimal results...and I am a member of a restoring website where plenty of images are available, perhaps they exist, but I dont remember seeing any. It must be easier to minimize the appear of scars in a fully/mostly developed penis.

The doctors have more skin to work with/stitch and the foreskin has already retracted, so no scar tissue from the forced seperation or constant forced retractions.
I was talking about the actual scar tissue, not just the appearance of scarring... sure, the actual incision/crush line is going to be thinner in adults (more skin, ease of stitching)... but the actual amount of scarring is usually due more to retractions, forced seperations, etc. As long as those aren't constant, studies show adhesions will release on thier own. If they are continually torn and retracted, it is more likely to develop scar tissue. Sooooo.... and infacnt who was circ'ed, and then left alone to heal should have about as much scar tissue as an adult circ. Make sense?


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
The doctor was very gentle with DS. He did give some good news that he thought it is unlikely DS will get to the point that he can't pee or that that was any other immediate danger, which was a huge relief to me. Otherwise his opinion was pretty depressing. He said there is no need to do anything in any certain time frame, but he doesn't think that his foreskin will ever be able to retract without surgery. He said this is "true phimosis" as opposed to the kind of phimosis in intact boys. What makes it different is that DS has so much scar tissue. The pinhole that he can pee through is a tight ring of scar tissue and scar tissue does not stretch like regular foreskin. It's worse than an adhesion where a small part is attached because the scar tissue is so tight and all the way around. I'm not going to take this as the final word, but it does make me very sad.

Well, at least you got some good news. I can see the issue with the scare tissue clearly the scar will be around the tip of what remains so I can see what you mean. But as long as your son is urinating properly and easily there shouldn't be a major concern. As an aside, if you leave him as is, there are a number of options he may have when he gets older if he can't retract his foreskin. The first being the cream you are using now. Failing that there are a few less invasive surgical options which he could choose too. That is if it becomes problematic for him and he wanted to do something about it. But I am guessing it won't.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
I would definitely like a second opinion. We'll be in the San Diego area until December and then in Seattle. Can anyone recommend a doctor in either place? I haven't heard back from the doctors recommended by nocirc, but neither are in this area and I can't blame them for not wanting to volunteer their time for a phone consultation when the damage is already done. I might try to call again this week.

This isn't true. Those at NOCIRC should be more than happy to speak with you. It certainly isn't your fault more than anything they'll want to be sure your son gets the most reasonable and less invasive treatment he needs. It could be as simple as they are very busy. I read you called Marilyn and I know she is as willing to help a parent in your situation as any other.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
I'm sorry if my questions have sounded demanding. I didn't intend that. I assumed you would only take the time to answer if you wanted to help & I think my desperation probably came across as more demanding. I do appreciate all the time you've invested in helping me.

No you're not demanding, you're just a parent trying to get the best answers for your son's problems because you care so much for him. That's all and it's nothing to apologizes about. Everyone here wants to help you with that; it's just that sometimes posters here get really passionate (it's because we care so much) we know what your son went through and we want to help you find the best and least invasive option for you and for him.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *whimsymom* 
When I talked to Marilyn on the phone, she asked me to let her know how it goes, so I'm sure if I don't reach the ones she gave me, she would have more ideas. When we get to Washington, I can at least try the one DocsNemesis recommended. I still welcome any other additional info. Thanks!

I am not sure about the scar situation but I would expect infant circumcisions to have the worst scar results. In any case since you are moving to Seattle I might also suggest that when you get there you could contact Doctor's Opposing Circumcision and get an additional referral. D.O.C. is head quartered in Seattle.


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