# hyper before bed time?



## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

no matter how we slow down and relax before going to bed, no matter how easily and eagerly dd gets to the bedroom to read a book and wrestle a bit with her brother, she ends up yelling, jumping, and generally being hyper.

this has been going on for over a week, and is now approaching a power struggle, though i tried not to engage with her on this one.

i expressed my feelings about it; i tried to talk to her about the need for respecting everybody who wants to settle for the night (had this talk at different times during the day, as to prepare her)

when she starts her hyper acting out, i tell her gently to calm down, try to cuddle with her, try to relax her by rubbing her back. she pushes me away and keeps on going.

but she is more and more intense about it with each day. today she almost calmed down, nursed for about 10 minutes (longer than usual), and her breathing slowed down. i gently unlatched her, hoping she was asleep. but immediately she started kicking her legs, jumped up, and started yelling.







:

we are getting stuck in this cycle. ideas to unstuck?

oh, and we are going to be very late, around midnight, and are waking up late too. she does get enough sleep, but could the late bedtime in itself affect her this way? we've never gone to bed at 7 or 8, but we've been closer to 9:30-10-30 kind of time.

i keep telling myself that i should start waking them up earlier, so that we slowly transition to earlier bedtime, but i am so sleepy in the mornings. especially as it is 2AM now, and i am still up


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## CurlyTop (Jun 18, 2003)

She's 4 1/2, right? My girls are also and we have the same energy burst right before bedtime. My one idea is to ask your DD what would help her relax and settle down. My kids are remarkably thoughtful when I ask them to help solve an issue. Good luck!


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## maxwill129 (May 12, 2005)

My DC do that too. Sometimes it means they're over tired and got their "second wind", but a lot of times that's just how they are! We usually let them have a few minutes to be silly together and then they calm down for a story.

Do you think you can change your bedtime routine a little? Maybe do the routine in a different location and move to the bedroom just to put her in bed? Oh, and if your child is getting enough sleep, I don't see how going to bed late and waking up late would be causing this. As long as she's getting enough sleep it doesn't matter that bedtime is later than a "normal" bedtime.

What about naps in the afternoon? Does she take them? Does she "rest" but not sleep? Try to think about her day, too, and anything that's been out of the norm.

Sorry, I'd like to type more, but i have to get ready for work or I'll be late once again!

Good luck!

Shannon


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## pilllowhead (Jun 4, 2003)

I am right where you are. We've been having this struggle, not with hyperness but bedtime in general since my parents visited 6 weeks ago (coincidence? I think not







) We still go through the routine of bedtime, except baths have become a regular fixture now, like every night. They are a great way to surround him with lavender smells. But I think it's the time of year as well ( I don't know how dark it is there at 4, but here it's pitch black!) A friend has suggested other ways of wearing him out earlier in the day and we have gone for swimming before dinner. Don't know if that helps or is a gd solution but we can see that the more energy spend during the day, the easier night times are.
Could you do something like a swim or wild run around the back yard/park with a ball for half an hour or so?


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

A late bedtime could definately do this to her. If she misses her normal "window" and clicks into hyperdrive, kwim?

Also, if you celebratet he holidays, she could have some sugar plums. Mine certainly do.

How does it affect her sleep? My younger son tends to wake up more frequently during the night when he has gone to bed jazzed up.


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## hubris (Mar 8, 2003)

Griff is turning 4 this month and has been like that at bedtime for a while. My husband ended up inventing bedtime games to harness the energy, stuff like running zing! zing! zing! to one side of the room, then back zing! to get pajama pants on, then zing! to the other side of the bed, then zing! back for the pajama shirt, then racing to get teeth done.

Most of our bedtime games involve some sense of hurry/scurry, which has the effect of allowing him to be hyper but removing the parental frustration.

At first I was sure this would just rile him up more, but somehow, it doesn't. When it's time to read a book and get into bed, he's calm. If, on the other hand, we spend bedtime trying to get him to calm down, he just gets more and more worked up and hyper.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

just to clarify a bit -- this is not her being just hyper. she IS sleepy and tired. i don't know how to explain it, but it almost feels forced, you know? i hate to say 'on purpose', but she winds up this way -- like she looks at me, and she knows that we discussed being gentle in the bedroom, and she starts jumping and yelling, even if minutes ago she was 'ready' to sleep, kwim? but it is also like she cannot stop. she is very irritable.

there used to be a time when they happily and joyfully wrestled, and i didn't say a thing, even if it lasted for 40 minutes. both were happy. now she is not happy.

for example if i whisper something to DH, like 'good night' she would immediately start yelling, jumping, kicking, that we woke her up, and she won't be able to fall asleep and so on and so on (a full drama queen reaction).

she doesn't nap / rest during the day. she doesn't get extra sweets now.

i don't know if the above should change my approach. i guess i am venting. if she was happy energetic, i would not mind. but it is very unhappy, fake happy, energetic, and this is why i maybe tend to make extra effort to quiet her down, and she perceives this as a battle.

at different ocassions, and gently, i keep repeating that we need to respect the family bed, as daddy is needs to wake up early, and ds is falling asleep. and she keeps on doing what she is doing. and i know that this will eventually resolve itself, but i feel totally helpless.


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## Blue Dragonfly (Jun 19, 2005)

I wonder if it would help to have an earlier bed-time. My DS1, the more tired he gets, the more hyper he gets. I've seen pictures of children falling asleep on their supper because they are so tired - not a chance of that with DS! The other day he was literally spinning on the couch because he was so tired.
He's like a wind-up toy that will not crash.

I also get the "looks". And the later we are, the more of a power struggle it becomes, and the more frustrated we both get.


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## Roo_Online (Dec 14, 2006)

Does she have a problem falling asleep? I'm getting the impression that she gets a little crazy before settling down, but that she still goes to bed. If that's the case, I would just say, "Good night, dear. I'm done now." and let her be.

My DH gets the kids so hyper before bed and it's used to drive me crazy. I worked hard on a relaxing routine, and then he would come in the room and throw the kids around and rough house until they were all laughing and going crazy. I didn't like it and I wanted to see little quiet angel faces on their pillows. I was tired and wanted the mothering day to end! But he pointed out that the kids fell asleep just fine. So I learned to stay out of it and let them do their thing.

So if your DD needs to wiggle, giggle, and kick and jump, just say "good-night, see you in the morning. " If she persists in bothering you, tell her you are done for the day and if she wants to squiggle and wiggle, she has to do it without bothering anyone else.

Ronline


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## PumpkinSeeds (Dec 19, 2001)

When my son was 4.5 he went to bed at 6:30 ish and we read a book to him for 30 minutes. Then it was sleeping time.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Another vote for overtired. I know that our son is overtired when he begins to run 'laps' around the house.

When my kids get overtired, it's like adrenaline kicks in to keep them awake (well, that's what it feels like to ME when I'm overtired), and so they are tired, hyper and unpredictable.

My first try would be to radically move back your bedtime - starting by moving it 15 minutes a day until it's more like 10:30 instead of midnight. Our 5 year old goes to bed about 8:30, falls asleep about 9 or 9:30 and gets up at 7:30. So, he only gets about 10 hrs. of sleep, but he does need to be asleep by 9:30 to avoid the irrational, whiney, power struggles you describe.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ronline* 
Does she have a problem falling asleep? I'm getting the impression that she gets a little crazy before settling down, but that she still goes to bed. If that's the case, I would just say, "Good night, dear. I'm done now." and let her be.

she does fall asleep easily aftewards, and this is what i do tell her! but since we co-sleep, well... i might be done, but if she is not, she is still jumping on top of me, and climbing over me


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PumpkinSeeds* 
When my son was 4.5 he went to bed at 6:30 ish and we read a book to him for 30 minutes. Then it was sleeping time.

dh only comes home around 6:30 -- this is the reason for us staying up so late, as we wait for him to come home to have dinner, and then spend some time with him. she would never go to bed so early!


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## Roo_Online (Dec 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annabanana* 
she does fall asleep easily aftewards, and this is what i do tell her! but since we co-sleep, well... i might be done, but if she is not, she is still jumping on top of me, and climbing over me










Aha, I see!

Would it work to say, "Hey, go do your crazy wiggles in the living room. When you're finished, come back to bed with us and snuggle to sleep. I'm going to sleep now and you are keeping me awake. When you're sleeping I don't jump on you, and when I'm sleeping, you don't jump on me."

Repeat, repeat, repeat as needed.

That would be what I would try if you all go to bed at the same time. Another approach would be that she goes to bed before you, giving her time to fall asleep or at least settle down before you go to bed.

Ronline


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:

this has been going on for over a week, and is now approaching a power struggle, though i tried not to engage with her on this one.
What has changed recently? Wheat caused ds to have jumpy legs at night and restlessness. Artificial colors made settling down at night more difficult. If dh comes home later than usual, ds still needs his dada time before he can wind down. Have you been out shopping late? I know if I go out, ds can't settle until I am home. Are they excited about Christmas and company, altered flow of your days, more errands and outings, eating irregularly due to the busy season? More chocolate at night affects my ability to wind down at night.

We found that Natural Calm magnesium supplements really helped ds to sleep longer periods. Epsom salts added to bath water have a soothing, calming effect on some people (some have the opposite effect). We use Peace & Calming, an aromatherapy in our bedtime routine. We just rub some on our wrists or feet. http://www.aroma-essence.com/catalog/peace-calming.html Mostly, if we miss the tired sluggish phase, ds gets a second wind and needs decreased stimuli to settle. Oh, sunlight during the day helps to regulate our biorhythms and melatonin production is effected by dimming the lights earlier in the evening. Ds likes to be held, with firm chest pressure to help re-center when he is overly tired. He likes to relax into the tight sensory input; the wrestling may do the same for you all. But, the flailing aspect may increase energy, rather than calm.

Oh, and high fructose corn syrup is in everything and increases hyper activity in our son.

HTH, Pat


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## straighthaircurly (Dec 17, 2005)

Part of it might just be a stage...my ds has gone through stages like this where he is always really hyper right before going to sleep. Usually would last just a month or so if we kept a strong bedtime routine. But I would also look at trying some bedtime adjustments for her since she is going to bed a lot later than normal. If she is actually getting tired earlier but not going to sleep then she can end up in a hyperarousal state that makes it a lot harder to go to bed. Also double check that her dietary patterns haven't changed (we had to get rid of the Halloween candy before it was gone because it was causing bedtime issues).

One other thing that helped a lot when my ds was in one of these stages...we would give him a foot rub and especially work the pressure points at the base of the toes. We joked that we had finally found his "off" switch because it would settle him down like nothing else. Good luck.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
Oh, sunlight during the day helps to regulate our biorhythms and melatonin production is effected by dimming the lights earlier in the evening.
HTH, Pat

this is interesting. we are in the arctic, our first winter, and we get very little sunlight now. and since we wake up around noon, we get only 2 hours of sunlight, and on many days we don't even go out during these hours, as it takes us some time to start the day...

i wonder if this was the major change? as nothing else changed -- no artificial colourings, she has very little sugar (honey and maple syrop, no white sugar)...

i noticed that i have insomnia myself -- i am wide awake till about 2AM. the kids sleep really well, touch wood, it is only the going to bed that is a bit off lately. maybe i should not complain









thank you everybody for your responses!


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## tribalmax (Oct 10, 2004)

HI AnnaBanana









Now that I know who you are, I thought I would say hi! And this post seems like a great place to do that because DD does exactly the same thing.

Here is my theory: Very intelligent children often learn ways to keep themselves awake because they don't want to be asleep. DD does this. She has identified and perfected many techniques to rev herself up despite being sleepy. It is very difficult.

So, in our case, we have tried all of the routine (NCSS and other stuff) ideas. Nothing has worked. I have moved to using herbs and supplements on occasion to help DD wind down and learn that going to sleep is not only ok, but that it feels good. Fighting her (like we have sometimes done in the past) has not worked. Here is what I have found to be the safest and most effective. We don't use herbs every night. But I have found that with DD using herbs for a week or so helps set a pattern for her -- and then they are less necessary.

(take all of this with a grain of salt because it is almost 11:00 here and DD is still awake -- in her defense, she has chicken pox and is pretty miserable)

Magnesium Citrate: Magnesium acts as a muscle relaxant and is very safe in appropriate doses for children (and adults!). DH and I both suffer from insomnia and have found this to be a great remedy for us to. I read a study once that showed that people who regularly suffered from insomnia were in fact deficient in magnesium. Take it in the evening about an hour before bed.

California Poppy: This is one of the safest herbs to use with children. The most research has been done on this herb as it is a sedative AND an analgesic. I use a tincture (divide the adult dose by 5 which usually is about 10 drops for a toddler) -- I put the drops + some water in a small cup and put it on a burner -- you have to take it off just as it starts boiling -- but this burns off the alcohol and makes it taste better.

Hops, Passion Flower and Chamomile are also good ones to try. Hylands company now makes a calms forte for children that can be helpful (if your child is not sensitive to the lactose).

Anyway, I realize that you posted this in GD, not in Health and Healing, so I am sorry if this is not the kind of info you are looking for. But it is the only solution we have found for DD. Every few months her sleep seems to get out of whack and we have to use the herbs again. And of course, when she is sick or teething, sleep gets disrupted.

Good luck to you!


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Rachel, thanks!









i'm going to be in calgary in a couple of weeks, and i will look at the supplements. i've thought about it for a while... more later, have to run. good to hear from you!









i noticed you have two babes in your icon, but only one in your siggy?


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## tribalmax (Oct 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annabanana* 
Rachel, thanks!









i'm going to be in calgary in a couple of weeks, and i will look at the supplements. i've thought about it for a while... more later, have to run. good to hear from you!









i noticed you have two babes in your icon, but only one in your siggy?


lol

Yes, only one baby. I just liked both of the nursing icons. I wanted to have them both.

lol

But it is confusing. I guess I should choose eh?

Anyway, I am not a certified herbalist yet (although I am looking into programs) but I have read LOTS about herbs and supplements to help with sleep (and other things). So let me know if you want more information.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tribalmax* 
lol

Yes, only one baby. I just liked both of the nursing icons. I wanted to have them both.

lol

But it is confusing. I guess I should choose eh?

Anyway, I am not a certified herbalist yet (although I am looking into programs) but I have read LOTS about herbs and supplements to help with sleep (and other things). So let me know if you want more information.

i thought you were hinting at something







you also put 2 in your family bed icon! i wanted to pm you, but it seems you are not accepting? they might kick us out for off topic discussions!


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## tribalmax (Oct 10, 2004)

See, you are assuming that I have that much attention to detail!!!

Just because I am married to the KING of attention to detail, does not in any way mean that I am like that. It drives DH crazy...










Ahhh no, those brain cells were killed in the last two years out of sleep deprivation and milk brain...


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