# Opositional Defient Disorder? Anyone know aout this??



## Goddess3_2005 (Oct 20, 2004)

My 8 old had just been given a peliminary diagnosis of this as well as axiety disorder. Whatis this and dose anyone have good natural treatments?


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## Silliest (Apr 4, 2004)

My favorite natural treatment for most childhood behavioral disorders starts with a good, intensive course of critical examination of the diagnosis.

Here is some reading on the subject.

http://www.settingtheworldtorights.com/node/269
http://www.sengifted.org/articles_co...Children.shtml
http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/challenging.htm

But please, don't stop there.
Do some more reading!

I don't know you or your child, so I can't really have an opinion on your personal situation, but I am very wary of accepting any mental/behavioral diagnosis unless I *really* understand it and agree with it's application to myself or my children.


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## Goddess3_2005 (Oct 20, 2004)

Thats it the 2nd link. Oh why didn't I put 2 and 2 together?? My Little Baby is gifted. He get straight A's in school, finishes his work before everone else and then he gets bord and into trouble! I used to do the same things!! OMG I am dumb! My poor sensative boy! Thank You SO much for that link! I think now I know where to start in fixing this problem


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## Silliest (Apr 4, 2004)

Yay!

I was dxed ADD as a child, and didn't learn the truth about giftedness until I was in my late 20s. It's been a real revelation.

You'll be able to give your son a great head start!

The SENG site, has lots of resources for gifted people.
If it's at all possible to locate a therapist or assesor who is familiar with giftedness, you will probably *not* hear ODD from them. They are very conservative about ADHD and other diagnoses as well. Some gifted kids *do* also have other issues (I also really *do* have Asperger's Syndrome/High Functioning Autism) but it's much easier to treat anything that really does need treatment if you know you're dealing with a "twice exceptional" child .

Best of luck to you!


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## mommyofshmoo (Oct 25, 2004)

I know nothing about "Oppositional Defiant Disorder", but it sounds like something they made up for kids who are oppositional and defiant that they want to put a diagnosis on.

Some people might argue that if this world doesn't make you feel oppositional and defiant you aren't paying enough attention.









My hunch is that your child is just more clued in than most.


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## Rainbowbird (Jul 26, 2004)

I taught a child with diagnosed ODD. He ended up being hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital for children. He was violent at times and literally full of anger and hatred at everyone: his parents, the school, me.......Thankfully, he and his family continued counseling and he is much better today and attending college.

ODD is characterized by an inability to follow rules and to submit to any authority figure: parents, teachers, etc. As I recall it tends to have its roots in one or more of the following (not surprising): a traumatic childhood, parental separation at an early age, abuse, or an unstable family life. Not saying that these necessarily apply to you; and of course there could be an event beyond your control that affected your child. If in fact he does suffer from this...maybe he doesn't!

The child I taught really was a severe case. He was like a two year old in an 8 year old's body. I believe the diagnosis was correct as he never exhibited giftedness and I worked in a school system that was known for identifying gifted children and meeting their needs.

However, I hope you are correct in that your son might just need a change of curriculum! If your school has a gifted and talented program, he should be evaluated by whatever process they use. You can also talk to his teacher about "curriculum compacting"--the process of testing a child out of material that they already know so that they can proceed upwards. It will also pay to find out what model of gifted education your school uses. Not all districts use vertical acceleration (advancing through material to the next level and so on) some use horizontal enrichment where the child studies the same materials as the other students, but in a more in-depth manner and in a way that supports their strengths and interests.

In the end, the classroom teacher is probably the most important factor, because he will only spend so much time with the gifted program if he is in a public school. A good teacher will natural "compact" a bright student and try to enrich them whether there is a gifted program available or not...

Good luck at figuring out what will best help your son.


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## Wilhemina (Dec 26, 2001)

I also taught a boy (6th grade) labeled with ODD. I think there were many factors contributing to the behaviors that led to the diagnosis, but definately among them was his high IQ and boredom.

I never thought the label was accurate for him.


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## Goddess3_2005 (Oct 20, 2004)

He did witness my X abusing me a lot and we had to live in a domestic violence shelter, but this was when he was one, would it really effect him this much? Although his father(not my current husband) has great problems dealing with anger, athourity, is in and out of prison, alcoholic, drug addict(this seems to run in his family) We have moved a lot in the past few years, could this be it?

He is an amazing artist, draws very life like for his age and like I said he gets straight A's. Maybe its a combination of both ODD and Giftedness?


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

ok so this sounds just like my 15 year old...so what do I do?

The teachers are saying ADD..I say nope because the behaviour they see in school is not exhibited anywhere else.

eta..Goddess...do we have the same ex?


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyofshmoo*
I know nothing about "Oppositional Defiant Disorder", but it sounds like something they made up for kids who are oppositional and defiant that they want to put a diagnosis on.

Some people might argue that if this world doesn't make you feel oppositional and defiant you aren't paying enough attention.









My hunch is that your child is just more clued in than most.

Yea, definately


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## PrincessMommie (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Goddess3_2005*
but this was when he was one, would it really effect him this much?

We have moved a lot in the past few years, could this be it?

Stacee, I sure hope your not going to blame yourself about this? It is easy to do when it comes to your child...please dont' do that ok?







:

Now, my son is also 8 yrs old and was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD...frankly he is SUPER smart and yes BORED to tears in school...and of course has a hard time making friends because he is 'labeled' the bad kid, or the pain in the neck, whatever and generally most kids cannot tolerate him because they don't understand him therefore he has self esteem issues.

You mentioned possibly HS'ing in a different post and if your still thinking along those lines, I would say it would be THE best thing for your son! He won't be bored or held back and can follow his interests at his own pace etc...and he won't be labeled anymore...however if that's not an option for you I would call your school and demand an IEP or whatever it's called....and hold them to it!









Best wishes!


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## Goddess3_2005 (Oct 20, 2004)

allgirls- For your sake I hope not, he's a heidious SOB and I am glad we have't seen or heard from him for 4 years.







Mt DS's school trid to say ADD to and so I had him tested, and nope nada. I think a lot of kids with ADD are just plain bored!

PrincessMommie- I really think its hard not to blame my self, I was s ingle mom for so long aftermy x. I worked 60 hours a week and never got to see him. Sometimes all I can do is blame my self. I really am looking into homeschooling him, DH isn't to keen on it, but we'll see.

For now I have put him on Whey protien and a product called Reliv. I am hoping we'll see some improvement in week or 2.


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## Rainbowbird (Jul 26, 2004)

Yes, those are things that could affect your child's self-esteem and emotional well-being. But you should not blame yourself. You have obviously worked hard to protect him and bring him up the best you can. The violence, instability, and lack of a father figure can definitely affect some boys. But that is not to say it is YOUR fault.

You won't know if those issues are really bothering him unless you involve him in some good therapy. And I would still consider the gifted program if you keep him in school. There could be a combination of factors at work here.


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyofshmoo*
I know nothing about "Oppositional Defiant Disorder", but it sounds like something they made up for kids who are oppositional and defiant that they want to put a diagnosis on.

Some people might argue that if this world doesn't make you feel oppositional and defiant you aren't paying enough attention.









My hunch is that your child is just more clued in than most.

ITA!









And, yes, I am a grad student in social work taking *her first & only* diagnosing class before I get to label you or your kid! Isn't it cool how that works?!

Please, please, please research every single diagnosis you or your babe is given because there is so MUCH wrong with diagnosing mental "disorders" including the lack of training for clinicians.


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## Rainbowbird (Jul 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Selu Gigage*

Please, please, please research every single diagnosis you or your babe is given because there is so MUCH wrong with diagnosing mental "disorders" including the lack of training for clinicians.

A good school system will obtain a diagnosis only from a certified child psychologist or psychiatrist. Your pediatrician should be able to refer you to one if the school system doesn't seem to be up to snuff.

In the district I worked in, we had a well-known child psychiatrist who was called in as-needed to work with and diagnose difficult cases who did not respond to our interventions. The man was a genius at working with kids and families. He convinced one mother to enter counseling with her son, something she had refused to do earlier (she had substance abuse issues and had also been abused by the boy's father). If you find someone good, it makes a world of difference.

Since many school systems are strapped for cash and are currently focused on our President's "No Child Left Behind" Law (otherwise known as "No Child Left Untested"







) you may well find that you need to pursue your own avenues. Sad to say but that is the state of affairs today.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

my 11 yr old just went through testing in our school...the teacher said ADD and the psychologist said "no way"

I bet if she heard ODD described she would think that's what my daughter has...see she argues with the teacher...the teacher says she is rude but can't give me any examples of what she said that was rude...just that she refused to do as the teacher asked. I don't call that rude, I call that not doing what the teacher asked, disobeying the rules and questioning authority. Of course this is a teacher who confuses obedience and respect.

FWIW...my daughter says the teacher is "rude" to her and yells at her and the last call I got was because my daughter said "you are being rude to me...yelling at me will not get me to do what you want, if you ask me nicely I will do it" but the teacher did not ask nicely so she wouldn't do it. Funny how this is something I have said to her in the past...guess modelling works


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## mandalamama (Sep 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Goddess3_2005*







Thats it the 2nd link. Oh why didn't I put 2 and 2 together?? My Little Baby is gifted. He get straight A's in school, finishes his work before everone else and then he gets bord and into trouble! I used to do the same things!! OMG I am dumb! My poor sensative boy! Thank You SO much for that link! I think now I know where to start in fixing this problem









those links are awesome (saving them for the future)! they explain my childhood to a T! i was born in '66 so i didn't get diagnosed with anything but "troublemaker" because i was finished before everyone else. my neighbor's boy was diagnosed with ODD by his school therapist, i told his mom my diagnosis was "he's an intelligent 6-year-old boy with parents who just got divorced" turns out i was right







i think ODD is just another way that society can't handle anyone being different and has to cram all those beautiful square pegs into conformist round holes







/end rant


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## member (Apr 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rainbowbird*
A good school system will obtain a diagnosis only from a certified child psychologist or psychiatrist.

In the state of Ohio, at lease, a licensed independent social worker can diagnose a child as well, and we only get one academic class on the subject, hence, my previous comment.


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## Rainbowbird (Jul 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mellybean*
those links are awesome (saving them for the future)! they explain my childhood to a T! i was born in '66 so i didn't get diagnosed with anything but "troublemaker" because i was finished before everyone else. my neighbor's boy was diagnosed with ODD by his school therapist, i told his mom my diagnosis was "he's an intelligent 6-year-old boy with parents who just got divorced" turns out i was right







i think ODD is just another way that society can't handle anyone being different and has to cram all those beautiful square pegs into conformist round holes







/end rant

I have no doubt that this happens sometimes, sadly enough. But I can assure you that is IS a real disorder. A child's home life can really mess him or her up! This poor kid that I taught had no father. Mom had a series of live-in boyfriends--a new one every year or two. Some of them physically abused her in front of the son. Are you telling me that a child who suffers trauma will never develop any disorder--that he's just "gifted" or misunderstood? I think that's naive. And I think we do kids a disservice by refusing to consider that they may need real help--not just a change of schools, teachers, etc. Not saying this is the case with the OP--just relating my own experience.

The child I taught did improve with intense therapy and a period of time spent in a quality out-patient psychiatric hospital. He was violent towards teachers and other kids when he finally left the school temporarily. When the family agreed to counseling, that was the turning point. They had to face their own problems and dysfunctional ways of relating.

I don't disagree that some people might be quick to pin a label on without examining things carefully. I guess I was fortunate to work in a school system that was very careful and deliberate about who got labeled. It wasn't a lack of funding--it was the prevailing philososphy and mission statement. BTW, I would guess that most school systems prefer to be conservative because there is just not enough funding to meet all the kids' needs anyway! In some districts I know of, kids who need real help don't get it because there isn't any money and not enough room in the programs that could help them--not enough school psychologists available for counseling...so the testing, diagnosis gets put off year after year, until they totally meltdown or break the law. I find that to be an intolerable way of running our schools--but of course in most cases the school is underfunded, overcrowded, and dealing with populations of kids who need much more than a school was originally designed to give. Schools are expected to solve everyone's problems, but it is really not possible.


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## Raven67 (Apr 20, 2002)

All psych diagnoses are just a list of behaviors or emotions that tend to cluster together. People present with certain types of problems, and we need to label, or "diagnose" them with something, for many different reasons. Anyway, Oppositional Defiant Disorder is just another description of behaviors. In this case, the label applies to kids with a long history of very disruptive, negativistic, and defiant behavior. Pretty much "severe nautiness." If the child were to seriously harm someone, or commit unlawful acts, they would be labelled, "Conduct Disorder" instead. Many kids with ADHD also have ODD, or will eventually develop ODD. But, ADHD are distinct disorders. ADHD involves involuntary noncompliance due to short attention span and hyperactivity. ODD kids are deliberately noncompliant. Kids with ODD tend to be irritable and difficult. The disorder is independent of intelligence, meaning that it occurs at all ability levels. I wouldn't assume that an ODD child is an unrecognized genius. In fact, high intelligence is associated with fewer behavior problems. But, like I said, intelligence is not related to this disorder one way or the other. Oh, and for the diagnosis to be made, the behavior must be long-standing, and occur in many different environments (ie, not just school, or just with mom). This is a very common childhood disorder...basically just a label to put on kids who have behavior problems. I won't even begin to speculate about the causes of ODD, because there are many different theories and approaches to treatment....My own opinion is that these are kids who come into the world as very "spirited" and find themselves stressed out, and/or in an environment that cannot always accomodate them or manage their needs. Tough situation all around.

(speaking here as a psychologist)


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

You might want to cross-post this in Special Needs Parenting...

As a Special Education teacher, I second Raven's description and want to emphasize the "It happens everywhere" part. To be truly diagnosed with ODD, a student needs to be opposition and defiant to almost every authoritative figure. It is not limited to one environment, person, or set of people. Furthermore, for it to be an educational diagnosis, allowing a student to receive special education services, it cannot be connected to a specific incident or series of incidents. So parents getting divorced or mom's live-in boyfriend who abuses the child means the ODD is a reaction to the situation, and not a "natural" problem. This I agree with. My problem is that for many children, there has been a life-long series of "situations" of adults acting as extremely poor role models, and although most children even exposed to this do not exhibit ODD, some do, and I would say that they qualify for special ed services as much as a child who exhibits ODD despite having good role models, loving and caring parents, etc. As I get my MA in special ed for moderate to severe disabilities, I work with many teachers who work with ED students (emotional disabilities which includes ODD) and they are very caring people, who do their best to get their students the help they need, including bending the "rules" a little so that kids who might be in the "lifelong poor role models" situations get included.


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