# I am shaking - never seen anything like this..



## snapper mamma (May 22, 2005)

The house next to ours is being renovated. A couple was there today (workers not the new owner) doing some kind of work inside. I happened to be looking out my window when I saw the woman come out with a baby maybe b/t 6-9 months old. They had a mini-van and the rear side door was open and she put the baby on the bench seat and put the seat bealt (shoulder) around the baby, buckled it and walked back in the house. Not something I would do but ...I stayed at the window to watch b/c the baby was unattended and it is hot and she was starting to slide down in the seat (clearly a newly sitting child). The mom (I assume) came right back out with a handful of stuff so I was starting to think she just put her in the seat to be safe while they carried their work materials out and I expected the dad to come behind with a baby bucket.......BUT......

the man came out empty handed, the mom made sure the seat bealt was tight (ACROSS THE BABY'S NECK) and closed the door to the car and before I could figure out what in the hell I could do about it they drove off with an infant buckled as if she were an adult in the car seat!!!!!

I am shaking, my husband says it is none of my business but who will speak up for that baby. So many things are wrong here. IMO that is more dangerous than a babe in arms in the car (which horrifies me as well) b/c it doesn't seem like it would take much for that seat bealt to choke that baby???

Anyway I am looking for 1) sympathy from others who would be just as shaken up as I am about seeing 2) thoughts on what I can do now. I believe they will be back as that car has been there during the entire reno process, so maybe I will look for a cheap but safe seat around town this weekend and either leave it there anonymously with a kind note or take it over myself and kindly and non-judgementally as a fellow mom talk a little about car safety???


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## PassionateWriter (Feb 27, 2008)

i would call the police on them.

i actually called our local police and asked what to do in case i see something like this again (a 3 yo in my case, in a seat belt only).

unless they realize that the tickets are going to be more costly than the car seat, they are less likely to use a seat.

how incredibly stupid.


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## Collinsky (Jul 7, 2004)

Aack! I'm not one of the more safety conscious mamas here, but that is just insane to me. I think your idea of trying to find a carseat for them is a good one, and I would head on over there and make like a friendly neighbor. And oh, you just happen to have a carseat, and saw that they had a baby, and you want them to have it... insist on installing it right then and there for them. I totally get that it can be difficult even for a slinging mama to have a baby all day long, and that sometimes you might want to put your baby somewhere out of the way. Hopefully somewhere safe... but maybe this mama really did think that this was safe? And maybe she felt that since baby was buckled in...?? And if they don't use it... call the cops and just tell them that someone is driving east on such and such road with a 6 month old baby unsecured, and give them the plate number and vehicle description.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

Take down the license plate number, make model and color of the car, and call the cops.


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## MommyinMN (Oct 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Collinsky* 
Aack! I'm not one of the more safety conscious mamas here, but that is just insane to me. I think your idea of trying to find a carseat for them is a good one, and I would head on over there and make like a friendly neighbor. And oh, you just happen to have a carseat, and saw that they had a baby, and you want them to have it... insist on installing it right then and there for them. I totally get that it can be difficult even for a slinging mama to have a baby all day long, and that sometimes you might want to put your baby somewhere out of the way. Hopefully somewhere safe... but maybe this mama really did think that this was safe? And maybe she felt that since baby was buckled in...?? And if they don't use it... call the cops and just tell them that someone is driving east on such and such road with a 6 month old baby unsecured, and give them the plate number and vehicle description.

I agree with this. Although I have to say if I saw them do it again, before I was able to get a seat to them, I would not hesitate to call the police.


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## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Collinsky* 
Aack! I'm not one of the more safety conscious mamas here, but that is just insane to me. I think your idea of trying to find a carseat for them is a good one, and I would head on over there and make like a friendly neighbor. And oh, you just happen to have a carseat, and saw that they had a baby, and you want them to have it... insist on installing it right then and there for them. I totally get that it can be difficult even for a slinging mama to have a baby all day long, and that sometimes you might want to put your baby somewhere out of the way. Hopefully somewhere safe... but maybe this mama really did think that this was safe? And maybe she felt that since baby was buckled in...?? And if they don't use it... call the cops and just tell them that someone is driving east on such and such road with a 6 month old baby unsecured, and give them the plate number and vehicle description.

I agree with this as well. Do what you can to help at first, but if they are refusing to protect their child, call in the authorities.


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## segata (Jun 4, 2008)

yea,i think i'd call the police.If they see nothing wrong with what they're doing,they probably won't take the seat...you could try but the police would probably have better success at fixing the problem
keep us updated


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## Maeve (Feb 21, 2004)

Oh dear god. I would've called the police RIGHT THEN.


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## Janansmom (Sep 14, 2007)

I am a NHTSA/AAA Certified Child Restraint Technician. What that means is I took a special training course to work the child restraint checkpoints done in many places and to work with the police when they do car seat road blocks.

What you saw is ILLEGAL and should be reported. Most times, it is simply that the parents don't know better (though with all the information out there, I'm not sure HOW!).

I have never hesitated to go up to a parent improperly restraining a child and say, "Hi, I'm ____ a certified car seat technician. That means I was trained by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and AAA to show parents how to navigate the confusing and often difficult child restraint requirements. Can I help?" So far, only a handful of parents have said "No, I'm fine." (Which I understand with a stranger walking up and offering to help you with your child). That's when I inform them I understand, but I am required to report them, because I would rather they dislike/hate me than have to deal with the pain and guilt of an injured or dead child.

I always carry extra materials in my car that I give to these parents to help them. You can find great information on NHTSA's website www.nhtsa.gov or on the KidSafe site www.safekids.org.

Also, some states offer a toll-free, anonymous reporting line you can call to report these parents. You provide the license plate number, what you saw, etc. Google for that information or call your local fire department (fire departments are generally the ones trained to do proper installations).

Hope this helps!


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

Yeah, I agree with all the pp's that said they'd call the cops. That's insane. I'm sorry, but I really don't think they actually believe that is safe. There's no way someone could possibly be that ignorant.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_betsy_* 
Take down the license plate number, make model and color of the car, and call the cops.

I have to agree with this. My mom is an travelling RN and sees this stuff all.the.time. And when she can, she will take the plates and call because like you said, you might be the only advocate for that child's safety.


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## julesinottawa (Apr 4, 2004)

I have called 911 before when I saw a couple driving and a woman in the passenger seat holding a newborn (no more than 3 months old) in her arms. When I called, the police took all the information I was able to give about the car and location so I assume they went looking. I would definitely do it again if I saw such an unsafe situation.


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## dogmom327 (Apr 19, 2007)

I've been in several situations in the past where I wished later I would have called the police/child services. At this point, I wouldn't hesitate. If the parents made an honest mistake, they will be educated on the proper way to care for the child. If they do other stuff, there will be a record in the system so that appropriate assistance can be granted to the child.


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## harrietsmama (Dec 10, 2001)

I am horrified, I think I would go say something, and if they do the 'but I just can't afford it thing, at least give them a sling or old sheet to sling baby and have them sit in back buckled, then put baby in sling on and send them straight to the station to get a free one or something. Then I would call the police to make sure 1 they know they are coming or 2 they have the info to track them down if they don't show. I know a sling is nothing compared to a seat, but it's better than watching a baby go down the road in a seat belt!!! (sooo not a jab at op, mama) This is what I would want to do, but I think I would be so shocked just like op that I would feel helpless in the moment.


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:

Oh dear god. I would've called the police RIGHT THEN.
yep. someone has to protect that baby when the parents are not doing so. it's everyone's business.


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## snapper mamma (May 22, 2005)

I regret not calling the police at that moment. There were many thoughts running through my mind but most of all I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. It was BEYOND my comprehension that they would really drive away with the baby like that and then it happened so quick that they were around the curve and out of my sight before I got the plate info (it was out of state and one I didn't recognize) and better description of the vehicle.

I am going to find/buy a car seat this weekend and hope they come back to work on the house this week. I will try to give it to them. If I see that again I will most defintely call the police.

Thanks,
Kerry


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## zensven42 (Oct 26, 2006)

wow, that is pretty wild. I wonder if they don't know or just don't care. Either way, the situation needs fixing. If they refuse or don't use the seat you offer, or don't get their own seat, call the cops on them.

Let us know how it turns out please-

subbing...







:


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

I wouldn't wait until they com back. I would call the police right now. That baby is riding around in that car buckled in like that on more trips than just to your house, I am betting. I would either call the police, or go over to their house. That baby is in grave danger.


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## Mamato3wild ponnie (Jan 6, 2007)

Well i have to take another stance at this one. I would not call the police, go over there and talk to them...maybe they are from another country and dont know exactly what to do. Gently ask them if they've ever though about putting baby in a car seat...explain how much easier it would be for mom and dad...etc.
Police dont always have all the answers and is not the best place to head first.
In some countries other than the US people are not required to put children in car seats....so some people might not know.
It's very normal for parents to hold there kids in the front seat and back in central america.
In the US we are super duper safety oriented...just because we see some one who does something other than the norm doesnt mean that they know better. Take the time to educate them and then if nothing changes then take another step.


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## snapper mamma (May 22, 2005)

Quote:

I wouldn't wait until they com back. I would call the police right now. That baby is riding around in that car buckled in like that on more trips than just to your house, I am betting. I would either call the police, or go over to their house. That baby is in grave danger.
They don't live next door (no one does right now, they were painters or something) I know nothing more about them than that they drive a gray, older make (perhaps an Olds, or a Mercury) minivan with blue tags and white lettering (like Michigan's used to be...this is SC).

I am passionate about car safety, I care about this greatly, but I don't think if I called the cops, now, 10 hours after this happened with a very vague description, they would really take me seriously.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

You could call the police non-emergency number and ask what they recommend you do.

Since it's a holiday weekend, do you think they'll be back to work on the house?


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## snapper mamma (May 22, 2005)

Quote:

_betsy_ You could call the police non-emergency number and ask what they recommend you do.

Since it's a holiday weekend, do you think they'll be back to work on the house?
I will call the non-emergency number in the morning. I have wondered many times what to do in these situations - I notice kids improperly restrained all the time - this is just the most neglectful situation I have ever seen.

I am suspect they will be back on Tuesday (forgot about the Holiday). If I don't see that car again I may ask one of the other sub-contractors if they know who they are.

I really do realize how serious this is for that baby. I am sorry I didn't act quicker when I saw it. I am too concerned about being a "bother" to people and can be insecure. I would feel horrible if something happened to that baby and I could have done something.


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## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snapper mamma* 
I am sorry I didn't act quicker when I saw it. I am too concerned about being a "bother" to people and can be insecure. I would feel horrible if something happened to that baby and I could have done something.

Oh, hon, I'm the same way. It's hard to know what to do when you only have a minute or two to think about it. Just do your best to make a difference if you get another shot at it now that you've had time to think clearly, and remember it's ultimately the parents' responsibility to take good care of that baby - you are not the one who placed him in danger.


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## snapper mamma (May 22, 2005)

Quote:

Oh, hon, I'm the same way. It's hard to know what to do when you only have a minute or two to think about it. Just do your best to make a difference if you get another shot at it now that you've had time to think clearly, and remember it's ultimately the parents' responsibility to take good care of that baby - you are not the one who placed him in danger.
Thanks for understanding.


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## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

So scary. I would call the non-emergency police number and find out what they think you should do. I often wonder how far I should take things-- Infant in a car alone for a few minutes, do i call? 35 lb preschooler in a seat belt, do i call? Kid getting more-than-spanked in a store, do i call? Half the time, I'm so shocked at what I'm seeing, that the reaction-time is soooooo slow. And I'm good in emergencies, just not about those non-emergency "boundary crossing" stuff







You aren't the only one.

In KY, the local fire department is the one "in charge" of seat belt and child restraints. Of course, the criminal parts get sent to the police... but the fire dept. does restraint inspections and hands out carseats to families in need. They will also show you how to correctly install seats... And they deal with these kinds of thing often. It is quite possible they would physically bring the seat to the baby and install it, and you wouldn't have to be involved at all. Ours employs a few translators from the local university to help with language and cultural barriers... Anyway, it never hurts to ask.


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## treehuggermama (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_betsy_* 
Take down the license plate number, make model and color of the car, and call the cops.


please do this ASAP!!!! think of that poor helpless baby who may die if they are in an accident!!! I call the cops every time I see a baby not in a carseat as unfortunately in my line of work I see what happpens to children not in said carseats....


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## Mandynee22 (Nov 20, 2006)

Yikes. And I thought it was bad when I saw a 7 yr old in a backseat without even a seat belt on leaning through the two front seats the other day.
I don't have advice (unless maybe calling the police with a plate number and direction the went next time it happens???) but I am horrified, too


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I'd call the police. I did call once, when I saw two toddlers walking and jumping around in the back seat of a car. The 911 dispatcher was glad I called.

They won't take the parents to jail. They'll tell them what the law is, and then give them a stiff ticket, which will make a car seat look cheap in comparison.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamato3wild ponnie* 
Well i have to take another stance at this one. I would not call the police, go over there and talk to them...maybe they are from another country and dont know exactly what to do. Gently ask them if they've ever though about putting baby in a car seat...explain how much easier it would be for mom and dad...etc.
Police dont always have all the answers and is not the best place to head first.
In some countries other than the US people are not required to put children in car seats....so some people might not know.
It's very normal for parents to hold there kids in the front seat and back in central america.
In the US we are super duper safety oriented...just because we see some one who does something other than the norm doesnt mean that they know better. Take the time to educate them and then if nothing changes then take another step.









:


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## milkeriffic mama (Aug 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_betsy_* 
Take down the license plate number, make model and color of the car, and call the cops.









:


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

You've _really_ never seen anything like this? It sounds like my (and everyone else I know) childhood.

If I were you, I wouldn't call the cops. I'm assuming there from another country, but that's just because around here 99.9% of the painters are Mexican. So they could be much more lax about carseat safety, just as our parents were. And if they're illegal, and the cops pull them over...well, it just seems like that could be worse for the kid in the long run.

I think getting them a carseat sounds like a wonderful, kind, charitable thing to do in this situation. Tell them a friend gave it to you and you don't need it, and then help them install it.


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## Moonprysm (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
You've _really_ never seen anything like this? It sounds like my (and everyone else I know) childhood.

If I were you, I wouldn't call the cops. I'm assuming there from another country, but that's just because around here 99.9% of the painters are Mexican. So they could be much more lax about carseat safety, just as our parents were. *And if they're illegal, and the cops pull them over...well, it just seems like that could be worse for the kid in the long run.
*
I think getting them a carseat sounds like a wonderful, kind, charitable thing to do in this situation. Tell them a friend gave it to you and you don't need it, and then help them install it.

I'm sorry, but I don't know that there's much worse than a dead or seriously injured child.

I will never understand those people that say "don't call the cops. you don't know the situation." You're right. But I will leave it up to the cops to decide what the situation is. I am not going to watch a child be put into SERIOUS danger and just let it go because they MIGHT have a good reason. If they do, the cop will find out. If they don't, I may have saved that child's life.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
You've _really_ never seen anything like this? It sounds like my (and everyone else I know) childhood.

I was born in 1980 and was in a carseat until I was 6 years old. I think this really depends on your age.

Also people didn't belt their infants in the back seat when they weren't in carseats, most carried their babies on their laps or had them in moses baskets in the floor board.

Not that any of this matters. What matters is just because you and "everyone else" you know survived riding in a car unrestrained does not mean that you were not in danger. This child is in danger and could be seriously injured or killed if someone (be it the parents, the OP or the police) do not do something.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
And if they're illegal, and the cops pull them over...well, it just seems like that could be worse for the kid in the long run.

Actually, it's generally illegal for the cops to look into someone's immigration status for EXACTLY that reason. It's not their job to enforce immigration law; that's up to the DHS. *If* someone is accused of a crime and arrested, the ensuing investigation may determine that they don't have a legal right to reside here, and they may be deported instead of tried. But for routine stuff, the local PD is forbidden from making decisions based on immigration status... it's not in the interest of public safety for a portion of the population to have reason to fear any police intervention.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
Actually, it's generally illegal for the cops to look into someone's immigration status for EXACTLY that reason. It's not their job to enforce immigration law; that's up to the DHS. *If* someone is accused of a crime and arrested, the ensuing investigation may determine that they don't have a legal right to reside here, and they may be deported instead of tried. But for routine stuff, the local PD is forbidden from making decisions based on immigration status... it's not in the interest of public safety for a portion of the population to have reason to fear any police intervention.

I saw this on the main board....actually, even if it's not legal the relity of immigration law is quite different. I PERSONALLY ahev witnessed some really, really wrong things go down when people did not have their papers. families separated, people deported on a moments notice, moms thrown in jail indefinitely, etc. I'm not saying that any of this excuses either illegal action (coming here illegally OR driving your kid around w/out a carseat.) But I would reeeealy hesitate to call the police if you think they're not legal. Iwould jsut offer a carseat. And if you are that worried, tell them that the cops pull people over who don't have their children in carseats. if they are not legal, that will be enough to make them use it.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy* 
I saw this on the main board....actually, even if it's not legal the relity of immigration law is quite different. I PERSONALLY ahev witnessed some really, really wrong things go down when people did not have their papers. families separated, people deported on a moments notice, moms thrown in jail indefinitely, etc.

Oh, absolutely; the way immigration law is enforced in this country is barbaric.

It's still not enforced by the local police department, though.

I would, for the record, advise *against* calling the DHS to report an infant being driven around without a CRS.


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## jeliphish (Jul 18, 2007)

Call The Police Asap


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

This is one reason I would call: http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3460732/

Can you imagine if you saw them driving without the baby in a seat, didn't do anything, and then read that story in the paper?


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
You've _really_ never seen anything like this? It sounds like my (and everyone else I know) childhood.

No, growing up I saw babies and toddlers in carseats, then kids moving into regular seatbelts (lap only) when they outgrew the carseats, and people being lax about carseat usage for preschool carpools. Maybe once or twice I've seen a baby or small child on an adult's lap when the car was very full (but this was never a regular thing.)

Things were definitely more lax than they are now, but I can honestly say I've never ever seen an infant buckled into an adult seatbelt in a moving vehicle.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
No, growing up I saw babies and toddlers in carseats, then kids moving into regular seatbelts (lap only) when they outgrew the carseats, and people being lax about carseat usage for preschool carpools. Maybe once or twice I've seen a baby or small child on an adult's lap when the car was very full (but this was never a regular thing.)

Things were definitely more lax than they are now, but I can honestly say I've never ever seen an infant buckled into an adult seatbelt in a moving vehicle.

Yeah... I think what's so baffling about this is, they knew enough about safety to know that everyone had to be restrained, but not enough to put the baby in a carseat? It's odd, to say the least. I think if it was just a cultural issue, then the person not driving would have been holding the baby in arms.


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## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

I was born in 1980 and I have never seen an infant... um... "secured" in a car that way. It was baby seat, then bigger, booster seat, then lap belt around school age.

Anyway. I'm sorry you had to witness that but you've got a lot of good advice here.


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
I think getting them a carseat sounds like a wonderful, kind, charitable thing to do in this situation. Tell them a friend gave it to you and you don't need it, and then help them install it.

You see, I did this once, someone I sort of know needed a seat and I gave them our old one which we didn't use - a bucket car seat, I fixed it in and showed them what to do, the next time I saw their car with the car seat in it, they had turned it around so it was forward facing, a few days later I saw them putting the baby in the car, forward facing, the seat wasn't strapped in and the baby wasn't strapped in the car seat - so I did call the police and they said that it wasn't important and that loads of people didn't use car seats, I said that under european law it was illegal not to have the appropriate seats in the car for your kids and they just said that they couldn't follow every law! I just can't speak to the parents now - I just look the other way!

So because of a parent's nonchalance a child could be seriously injured - or worse killed - why is it that the kids always suffer because of someone's ignorance.


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## Periwinkle (Feb 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mamato3wild ponnie* 
Well i have to take another stance at this one. I would not call the police, go over there and talk to them...maybe they are from another country and dont know exactly what to do. Gently ask them if they've ever though about putting baby in a car seat...explain how much easier it would be for mom and dad...etc.
Police dont always have all the answers and is not the best place to head first.
In some countries other than the US people are not required to put children in car seats....so some people might not know.
It's very normal for parents to hold there kids in the front seat and back in central america.
In the US we are super duper safety oriented...just because we see some one who does something other than the norm doesnt mean that they know better. Take the time to educate them and then if nothing changes then take another step.

This would have been my approach too. I don't like the idea of calling the cops unless I'd comfortable with them taking their baby away with them when they go.


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

Here in PA, they do a "car seat check" before parents can take the baby home from the hospital.

Do you think those are the _parents_ of the baby or some highly irresponsible day care providers?

If you call around (churches, fire station, etc) you can probably find someone to donate a car seat for them. Then you just explain how important it is for them to use it.


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## Stephanie29 (Jun 29, 2004)

OP, I'd be upset too.....hugs.
Sometimes we're so shocked that it's hard to react as fast as we should, almost like we cannot believe what we've just seen!
I think you should try to "make friends" with them and see what is up, what the situation is, and take a carseat to them!
I find it hard to believe in this day and age of tv, ad, billboards, etc of information that someone would be "unaware" of carseat laws.
Even if they are immigrants....there are pictures on billboards everywhere, and it doesn't take a genious to figure out what a baby/child in a carseat means.....
Anyhoo--KUP! and I hope that you can get that baby a carseat!!!!


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

Unbelievable.

This is exactly why I have the seat belt hot line number programmed in my cell phone.


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## tiffani (May 17, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 

If I were you, I wouldn't call the cops.

I think getting them a carseat sounds like a wonderful, kind, charitable thing to do in this situation. Tell them a friend gave it to you and you don't need it, and then help them install it.









: If they don't come back right away, I'd ask other workers there if they knew them, and try to get the seat to them as soon as possible...


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## pixiepunk (Mar 11, 2003)

i haven't read all the replies, but if you can find a cheap carseat and are willing to do that, you should. i would broach it in terms of it being illegal and how expensive the ticket would be if they were to get caught because sadly that's probably the only thing that would work with someone in that kind of scenario IMO.

it does make me wonder where the child was born. of course, i had 2 homebirths, but most people don't, and they won't even let you out of the hospital from what i understand unless you have a carseat installed in your car.


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

So, what ever happened? Did they come back?


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