# I am thinking gentle dicipline is over rated



## zonapellucida (Jul 16, 2004)

Without the proper discipline they should have gotten when they were younger they have become little tyrants thinking the world revolves around them. Older children included all becasue I didn't want ot damage their little psyches. Anyone else experience this?

Anyo0ne else use some other method of dicipline/ uprearing? (this is so anit MDC







but I have been trying this for a long time and the experiment is over)


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## Cujobunny (Aug 16, 2006)

Well I sure don't have any advice on how to turn around the behaviour of 9 children... but please don't slag gentle discipline for those that are here to learn more about it, when what you are really down on is the complete lack of discipline!

Gentle discipline does not mean letting kids do what they want for fear of "damaging their psyches". It's still discipline, teaching, redirecting, helping children to learn the proper way to act in society and respect themselves and each other, it's just doing it in a respectful and non hurtful way







And yes that is totally possible.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

no. I am not experiencing this at all. My children have their "tyrant moments" but it has nothing to do with discipline, it's usually developmentally appropriate behaviour etc.

Can explain your difficulty a little more and also, how old are these children and what difficulties are you having with each specific child. Maybe we can work through more effective ways to discipline them that aren't difficult.

Allgirls.

Eta..I just read in your title that you have 9 children. I'm outta my league here..lol


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

I think it's very possible to be gentle while still maintaining firm boundaries for yourself and ensuring that your children understand that a family must balance the needs of all members.

Maybe you could give some examples of situations in which you feel that gentle discipline is ineffective, and we could brainstorm some solutions?


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Dar said:


> I think it's very possible to be gentle while still maintaining firm boundaries for yourself and ensuring that your children understand that a family must balance the needs of all members.
> 
> 
> 
> >


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Weeellll.....

I think that a lot of people seem to conflate "Gentle Discipline" with "Consensual Living" around here.

But I personally don't think you have to be completely CL and a complete martyr to practice a gentle form of discipline. I know I am not at all CL, and many of the CL techniques that I've seen recommended (and had recommended to me) would have been very developmentally inappropriate for my children, especially my oldest.

I think if you start digging, a lot of people at MDC are fully committed to gentle discipline, in that they do not use physical punishments or shaming, but they realize that children's psyches *need* discipline.

Children are baby primates. They are born into social groups, and their very first instincts are to observe the other people in their social group to start figuring out what the rules are and how their social group works. Babies an hour old pay so much attention to faces that they can mimic facial expressions. They aren't inherently bad, but they aren't inherently *good* either. They are waiting for more information, and they will learn to behave from watching the responses of adults to them and to each other.

IMO, one of a parent's most important jobs is to help our little baby monkeys figure out how to learn the social rules of the monkey troop. We need to clearly communicate what behaviors are and are not okay, and when they are okay, and WHY they are okay. And you can do that without hitting, or verbally abusing, or shaming.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
I think it's very possible to be gentle while still maintaining firm boundaries for yourself and ensuring that your children understand that a family must balance the needs of all members.
?

I agree.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
I think it's very possible to be gentle while still maintaining firm boundaries for yourself and ensuring that your children understand that a family must balance the needs of all members.

Maybe you could give some examples of situations in which you feel that gentle discipline is ineffective, and we could brainstorm some solutions?

Yes, this. Gentle Discipline isn't a one size fits all thing, don't let anyone make you believe that. Take the stuff that works for you and leave the stuff that doesn't.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
I think it's very possible to be gentle while still maintaining firm boundaries for yourself and ensuring that your children understand that a family must balance the needs of all members.

Maybe you could give some examples of situations in which you feel that gentle discipline is ineffective, and we could brainstorm some solutions?


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savithny* 
Weeellll.....

I think that a lot of people seem to conflate "Gentle Discipline" with "Consensual Living" around here.

But I personally don't think you have to be completely CL and a complete martyr to practice a gentle form of discipline.

I just wanted to comment on this, as I think so many people have a misconception of CL. If you are being a martyr, you are not living consensually. CL does not mean that you rearrange everything so that your kids do whatever they want while you suffer. It means that you work together and treat everyone like a respected person so that everyone's needs are met.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I agree that is true CL. However, on this site, it is often the former. It gives cl a bad name.


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## fresh_veggie (Jan 27, 2009)

I don't know much about gentle discipline (no kids here yet) but I do remember being hit and yelled at by my parents in my own childhood, and I really, really feel that more would've been accomplished if they'd used words instead of hands.

From my understanding, I don't believe that "gentle discipline" is letting your kids rule the world at your own expense. Balance and middle ground are essential to all things in life. Best of luck.


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

Given that this is the GD forum, people are unlikely to discuss how they use other forms of discipline.

Aside from that, I teach children with developmental disabilities who often have very severe behavior issues, are nonverbal, do not understand spoken language, engage in self-injurious behavior, are aggressive towards others, and are often in a stage of development like that of a young toddler even when older. I manage to help them learn and grow using GD while at the same time teaching them new ways to behave and express themselves.

So I figure if I can do it with them, it can be done with any typical child.


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Gentle discipline is NOT no discipline. Each family tailors it to work for them. In our house, it is understood that I am alpha. I make sure things get done, rules get followed, and respect happens. That doesn't mean I beat it into anyone, only that my attitude sets the stage for what's going to happen. Am I flexible? Sure.......to a point. But I'm also content with repeating myself as often as it takes for the child to stop arguing and just do it. Case today - The Kid went out to play at 10:30. Summer rule is that we check in at 12:30, usually have a bite of lunch, then out until the two other check in times, 4 and 6:30, where he's in for the evening.
From 10:20-10:30, he presented every reason why he should stay out until 1:30 and check in then:
-he won't be hungry (he will, he ate breakfast at 8 and we repeat this same thing every day)
-it takes too long to get home (he can plan better)
-it's too short of a time

and so on. Which is great, I'm glad he's thinking about it, and if he comes in at 12:30 and isn't hungry, he's free to come back in later when he is, or take a snack out with him. But the rule stands that he checks in at 12:30.

We also do different rules for different ages. And I'm not worried about damaging anyone's psyches. Disappointment that is just is something that is good to experience, boundaries make for confidence. I'm not going to tiptoe around and do everything except what I should be - teaching and guiding.


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## Quinalla (May 23, 2005)

Gentle discipline doesn't mean no discipline. My parents mostly used gentle discipline (they didn't know it had a name, just went with what made sense to them) with my siblings and me and it was very effective, much more effective than the one time I was spanked or the few other times another method was used.

And like anything, you have to make it work for your family and just because someone on here says something is or is not GD, doesn't necessarily mean that is true







I disagree with people on these forums quite often myself







but I still keep coming here because I learn a lot from others' advice and experiences, even when I sometimes disagree.

The book I have enjoyed the most that really helped me get it was _Parent Effectiveness Training_. That book explains that it doesn't have to be either the parent wins or the children win, instead everyone can win. Sure, it's not foolproof or perfect, but it really helps change your attitude about parenting, not seeing it as us vs. them or someone has to win and someone has to lose and gives you some good real life examples and good strategies. It's again pretty much the way my parents did things, just they did it because it made sense.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

I hope this was just a rant on a bad day.

GD is not letting your kids do whatever. That's neglect or permissive parenting, not GD.


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## bronxmom (Jan 22, 2008)

Little children DO think the world revolves around them. That is the developmental stage they are at. Our job is to work with that and understand it while teaching children about how others feel; how our actions impact others; etc. There's a reason 90% of 2 year olds engage in certain behaviors regardless of what discipline method is used. It's developmental. We need to work with the stages of kids' development.

Alfie Kohn makes a great point in Unconditional Parenting that traditional discipline methods - including many "gentle" methods - focus a kids' attention on how their actions impact "themselves" rather than others. For example, kids a hits kids b and gets punished (time-out, spanking, loss of privileges, etc). Kid a learns "if I hit, I get hurt." This might make kid a hit less or it might just make him more sneaky or he might still do it because he hasn't developed impulse control. But he learns nothing about how it makes kid b feel to be hit and what he could do to make amends. So it's actually traditional punishment-based methods that teach kids to be self-centered, not the other way around.

Also, I think we definitely need to be able to set some boundaries and limits - our own personal ones being key. We can't be doormats and should express when we need a break ourselves or do not want to be talked to in a certain way, etc. However, I think parents would do well to think about whether their requests are reasonable and be willing to change their mind or shift course if necessary. This goes along with seeing your child as someone who could have a valid argument.

So, in the example given above, where the kid wants to stay out until 1:30, I personally would re-consider the request (assuming the kid's old enough to be unsupervised/out and about for 3 hours - if he is for 2, I assume 3 wouldn't be qualitatively different). It seems he has a valid argument that 3 hours allows more time to develop his activities, etc. If he gets hungry before 1:30 he can always come back earlier. What about saying "you know, I think you make some valid points but I still have concerns about you being gone so long - how about we try it for a couple days and see how it goes; or, could you check in with a phone call at the mid-point as a compromise". Unless there's a really compelling reason, then I don't see the point of sticking to a rule/limit/boundary just for the sake of sticking to it - it seems arbitrary and I'm sure seems so to kids. Note: I'm only using this example to illustrate my general point. There may be some compelling reason said kid needs to check back in 2 hours rather than 3; but it wasn't presented, it was just given as an example of the importance of sticking to limits, which I don't really buy.

I've seen plenty of kids raised by non-gentle methods who are self-centered, uncaring, etc. Also, btw, I think that are society is really intolerant of kids in general and that makes it harder b/c a lot of regular kid behavior is seen as so terrible.


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## jennpn (Jul 30, 2009)

This seems like a pretty generalized statment. I think it has more to do with your specifit interpretation of GD. We are very strict with our son. If he doesn't use his manners he doesn't get it, if he doesn't use a nice tone, he doesn't get it. We model respect and we earn respect. The bounderies are very clear in our family and they are enforced 100% of the time. Before I begin sounding like a drill sergent however I can say that we also have a home with no yelling, no violence and no intimidation. Benjamin (2) does believe the world revolves around him...becuase he is 2 but he won't forever. He will learn that the world may not revolve around him but he is a very important part of it. I would be shocked if my children grow up to be what you described. I can get much more out of him now with kindness, humor and respect then I ever would be able to with intimidation and violence. 9 children is a lot to handle and perhaps there are more specific issues you are dealing with that others could give you advice on in a more firm GD mannor. ?


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## jeliphish (Jul 18, 2007)

We definitly practice GD but have boundries and rules. Like the above poster...she doesn't ask politely, she does not get it....if she whines, she does not get it. If she is overly tired and seems to be posessed by deamons, we take a time out until she is able to act nicely.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Just a reminder:

*Welcome to Gentle Discipline. This forum has a specific aim: to help parents learn and apply gentle discipline methods in raising their children. Please appreciate that this forum is not a place to uphold or advocate physical punishment of children.*

Parents are welcome to discuss a spectrum of GD approaches, however we do request that all threads focus on GD. We cannot host threads which focus on practicing non-GD methods.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

We are firm and have boundaries and have always been GD. I am very happy with my 13 year old's behavior. I can't imagine the challenges of raising 9 children! Perhaps there are large families who can chime in with ideas. If you give specific examples of challenges you have I bet others will gladly brainstorm.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I tend to waiver from the Dr. Sear's side of the spectrum to a more truly consensual side depending on my daughter's needs and her behavior. If your kids are making life really miserable for all of you right now then maybe you need to clamp down with some rules and take away the privelages you don't think they are ready for at this point. I don't think that it hurts kids feelings to be told that they can't act in certain ways, that they are expected to follow the rules, and that there are consequences for their actions.

I think having so many kids must be draining and must make it harder to be a parent regardless of how you parent. I don't think that means you need to rethink GD though. My mother used spanking and shaming as her main form of discipline when I was growing up and she told me that she had lots of compliments about us as children and thought she was a perfect parent until we hit the preteen years and all of our anger and pain that had been repressed started coming out and we acted out and were beyond caring or control. I stopped acting out when I got pregnant with my daughter but my brother is still out of control and he is 25. I think that you should be wary of discipline styles that let you gain immediate compliance because they are short term solutions with long term damage that is not easy to let go of.


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## *LoveBugMama* (Aug 2, 2003)

Let me start by saying that I have ONE child, a challenging one, but still ONE. I have no idea how the dynamic in a family with 9 kids is.
 








But what I do knowl is that GD is not overrated. I firmly believe that GD is the only right way to parent a child. Yes, the only right way. I said it.







But GD can be so, so many different things. What HAS to be involved, is respect. Respect, the ability to see what is ageappropriate, willingness to give kids the benefit of the doubt and lots of understanding and love. That`s what I believe GD is all about. And how can that be overrated?

Gentleness is never wrong, in my opinion.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Zonapellucida, I think you are feeling very stressed right now. If I remember some of your recent threads (contemplating single parenthood, financial difficulties, homeschooling, etc.) and the things you have been and are going through, no wonder you are going through some tough times and the children are picking up on it and acting out accordingly. I have had my moments, too, where I am so stressed, lacking sleep and/or whatever, where it felt like everything was out of control, but with some time, things fell back into a kinder, gentler place. I wish that for you, and quickly.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kittywitty* 
I hope this was just a rant on a bad day.

GD is not letting your kids do whatever. That's neglect or permissive parenting, not GD.

I agree.


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## Mama2 '05'06 (Mar 5, 2006)

GD is not about not having any boundaries and just letting your kids do whatever they want whenever they want. GD is actually MORE workd than just hitting and yelling and punishing your kids over every little thing because you have to think and use some self-control. What I find is that *I* am learning things right along with my kids. Are there times when things go wrong and I feel embarrassed or angry? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean GD is wrong. It just means that I and my children are human and therefore, not perfect. I find that when I am stressed, my kids pick up on it and act out in ways they normally wouldn't. And if I can calm down and release my stress, they in turn act better. I do know that I am fairly strict even with GD. I also know people who believe that they are using GD when in fact they are just being permissive. They are the ones who are so extremely upset about their kids' behavior and so worn out by their kids- why? The kids just walk all over them and don't listen or obey, rather they scream at the parents and go right ahead and do what they've been told not to. After caring for these kids, I was worn out too. I can't imagine having a 3yo who listens and obeys less than my 20mo and having a 21mo who hasn't even been taught basic things like "Come" and "stop". Anyway. I grew up the oldest of 9 children, plus my aunt who was 4yrs younger than me. Our household was caotic most of the time. We want to have a big family- 12 kids at least, and I still plan use GD so that they can grow up to be healthy useful adults.
Anyway. No, GD is not over rated. Its just alot more work that people like to think.


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## Carley (Aug 16, 2005)

Gentle Discipline - ANY discipline - is more work than doing nothing. WAY more work.

I know this & I have ONE three year old tyrant. Developmentally appropriate tyrant, yes, but still a tyrant!

She drives me batty! JUST ONE!

Being gentle to one is a LOT of work for me - I can't even imagine 9 OP









I hope nobody made you feel bad for writing what you did. I think sometimes it's easier for people to have answers when it's not their life, which is one of the benefits AND bummers about internet communitites. Sometimes we get great ideas - sometimes we're totally misunderstood. I think it's really important you have someplace to vent and speak your mind, no matter how "un pc" or "un crunchy" that may be.

Anyway, I LOVE "Adventures in Gentle Discipline" It's more "authored" by real mothers of a WIDE interpretation of "Gentle Discipline." It's helped me get through my worst moments - I think MOST of us can admit to doing and saying horrible things to our children either at some point or a on a regular basis. It's all about trying our best to be the best we can for our kids.

NO ideology is going to yeild "perfection"

Anyway! I know I don't have any answers for you - but I really hope you feel better mama







I know I have moments - many moments - every single day in which I think I'm going out of my mind. Those little moments of wonderful in between though - that's what I live for.


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## waiflywaif (Oct 17, 2005)

Quote:

What HAS to be involved, is respect. Respect, the ability to see what is ageappropriate, willingness to give kids the benefit of the doubt and lots of understanding and love. That`s what I believe GD is all about.
Exactly. And I believe that GD can include time out, if that works for you and your kids (I don't personally use it). It can include logical consequences. It can even include getting angry sometimes, as long as everyone takes time to preserve the parent-child relationship! GD is about intent and relationships and respect.

I'm going to recommend a book too: "Loving Your Child Is Not Enough: Adventures in Positive Discipline" by Nancy Samalin. It's not new or groundbreaking stuff, but it's an excellent review.


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## JMJ (Sep 6, 2008)

I only have one of my own so far, but I worked in daycare for years before having my own, and I got to practice GD in a room full of up to 8 infants/toddlers or up to 20 preschoolers. We would have constant training on discipline, and besides some temporary issues, those kids were very responsible and well-behaved. When issues arose, we would discuss amongst coworkers and parents how to resolve them, and we were usually quite successful.

There was a clear schedule that we followed so that the kids knew what to expect. We were clear about when we were giving options (Would you like to come draw a picture?) and when there was no negotiating (You touched your poop. It's time to wash your hands.). We gave kids as many options as we were willing for our own sanity and then drew clear lines and enforced them. With so many children, options do get limited because you have to maintain order. It builds character for children to learn that they have to wait for or forgo what they want to do in order to meet someone else's needs.

Our daycare was an excellent place for children to learn about and practice relationships. In a family, I believe that this is even better because children get to learn how to relate to people with more varied ages than in a school or daycare setting. It takes a lot of effort to be fully present for so many children at once, but such guidance surely prepares children to be productive members of society.

It sounds like your method of discipline may not be working for you. You may indeed need to get more strict, but that doesn't mean you need to move straight to spanking. It sounds like too many "problem" areas have built up and need resolving, and to fix them all is going to take more than one or two minor adjustments. You are obviously looking for a drastic change in your discipline that you have the desire to give up GD completely. Have you thought of what you plan to do instead?

Without knowing the details of your problems, here's some ideas: Look for ways that your children have been abusing the responsibility that you have given them and take away the responsibility (and connected privileges) until they have earned it. Establish a more strict schedule including more and less structured time so that the kids know when they have the time to pursue their own interests and when it is time to clean up the house and eat dinner as a family. Give your children options only when you are sure that any options that you are giving are acceptable.

When a problem arises, give clear "if, then" consequences and then follow through. This one is difficult and takes practice to think before you speak and try to focus on natural consequences. One of the easiest is "If you can't use that correctly, then you are excused from using it." Make sure you think before you speak, though, that the consequences you state are ones that you are willing to do. If you say "If you can't play nicely, then we are going home," you have to actually be willing to go home... and take your other 8 kids.


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## Carley (Aug 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JMJ* 
I only have one of my own so far, but I worked in daycare for years before having my own, and I got to practice GD in a room full of up to 8 infants/toddlers or up to 20 preschoolers. We would have constant training on discipline, and besides some temporary issues, those kids were very responsible and well-behaved. When issues arose, we would discuss amongst coworkers and parents how to resolve them, and we were usually quite successful.

I was also in ECC before I had my daughter & there is a HUGE difference in the dynamics between children and care providers (or anyone else).

Children behave differently with other adults (as I'm sure many of you experience!) AND adults behave differently with children that are not theirs.

In Washington there are also ratios (which I think explains the "we" in your explanations). Our ratios here are 1 (adult)/4 (infant)- 1 (adult)/7 (toddler), and at our facility every classroom had an assistant and a regular floater. We also have state regulated breaks, lunch breaks.

Also don't forget that you got to go home to your child free life including weekends! I'm sure that was refreshing!

Again, OP, I hope no one is causing you to feel guilty for feeling what you do and I hope you still feel free to vent your fustrations. Most of us have them. Everything, ESPECIALLY discipline, is easier said than done. ESPECIALLY from the outside.

Come back!! Everyone is eager to support you!


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## ABmom (Mar 6, 2008)

OP: Lots of hugs to you!

I can't imagine raising 9 children and practicing the true form of GD (whatever that means) without feeling overwhelmed and out numbered every now and then. I have two children and sometimes I just want to put them on ebay







.

I think that you should not feel like you are any less of a parent if GD is not working for you.

I agree with the others that GD is mainly about teaching and disciplining a child with love and respect. There are so many interpretations of GD and how it is practiced. Please don't give up on it as a whole.

Hugs again.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Can we help with any particular issues? Or just listen to you vent? Hugs.

Nine kids is out of my league too, and I know for a fact that I would be a different parent if I had nine. I simply would not have the time to do some things that I do with DD. I can help her work through her processes a lot more, with nine she'd have to do that a lot more on her own, though I imagine her siblings might help if they were all attached. All I'm trying to say is that things are different for different families; some children are high-needs, some families have lots of kids, and so on.

I agree with the others that GD is very effective, much more effective than spanking or shaming, and that it doesn't correlate with how strict a parent is. Personally, I'm not very strict, but I know one can be VERY strict and still GD. Likewise a parent can be authoritarian but very lax, believe it or not. Meaning they might let a kid run while and then just give them a whack every now and then, you know? Discpine STYLE and STRICTNESS are two different axes (um, plural of axis, not the chopping instrument, lol).


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I have four children of my own and have eight total Monday through Saturday (childcare).

Maybe I can help you work through some specific discipline issues?


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Even teenagers tend to "think the world revolves around them" from time to time, and need to be reminded. Whenever kids get new freedoms, they can get over-inflated egos and need to be taught the new responsibilities that come with the new freedoms. This isn't just a "little kid" issue.

GD is a philosophy, not a checklist of specific discipline techniques. Too many people equate "gentle discipline" with "no discipline" and that isn't accurate at all!

If you have 9 kids, then either you've been using GD for years and are having a frustrating day (possibly triggered by another adult doubting you?), or you're new to GD after many years of another discipline style- which can mean that all of you need to make a lot of adjustments.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

OP, I hope you are feeling better now. IMO, GD is a wide spectrum, and it is about showing your children respect, which is something I do not consider over rated or just one of many options, but is what it means to be a parent. With nine kids, I have no doubt you feel the need for some structure, but it doesn't have to mean not being gentle. As PPs have mentioned, there are gentle ways to set boundaries, and I hope you find some!


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Carley* 
I was also in ECC before I had my daughter & there is a HUGE difference in the dynamics between children and care providers (or anyone else).

Children behave differently with other adults (as I'm sure many of you experience!) AND adults behave differently with children that are not theirs.

In Washington there are also ratios (which I think explains the "we" in your explanations). Our ratios here are 1 (adult)/4 (infant)- 1 (adult)/7 (toddler), and at our facility every classroom had an assistant and a regular floater. We also have state regulated breaks, lunch breaks.

Also don't forget that you got to go home to your child free life including weekends! I'm sure that was refreshing!


Absolutely 150% different, from a mama who worked various childcare settings (babysitting, in-home assistant, daycare center, special needs preschool) for 12 years before having my first child.

I think a big part of the difference--for me--has been that with "other people's kids" I could chalk up their continued undesirable behavior to something else--"oh their parents obviously give them whatever they want when they whine or tantrum" for example.

With my own children, I've had total moments where I think what they do now is how they are going to be **forever** and I MUST be doing EVERYTHING wrong becuase the whining/tantrums/sibling fighting whatever does not stop.

Also I think on some level in a teacher/child relationship, you have a tiny level of "fear" (I don't know what else to call it)
The parent is the MOST TRUSTED ADULT in the child's life. Which means they can feel free to be at their worst for us--whereas they may "fear" what might happen if they do some of this stuff with the provider--or even in front of the other kids.

("fear" is not quite the right word, it's got the wrong connotation. I'm not suggesting children fear all childcare providers. I'm trying to say there is a different level of trust. As there really should be. And because of this, children have more inhibitions with ANY person ohter than the parents.)

And yes, there is that thing about having to get up at all hours and every day, again and again with being a parent. If you are a teacher without children of your own, you go home every night and have a full night's sleep before you have to GD again the next day with a roomful of kids.
As a parent of 3 young children, I often have to do my best to GD after the babe decided to be awake from 1:30-4 AM and the 4 year old got up at 7....

And I'm a SAHM and I feel isolated--at work, we spent the lunch hours commiserating about life in general and sometimes the challenges we had in our rooms.
As a mom, maybe I don't get to talk or see a friend for a few days.....








s: not easy


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## zonapellucida (Jul 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
no. I am not experiencing this at all. My children have their "tyrant moments" but it has nothing to do with discipline, it's usually developmentally appropriate behaviour etc.

Can explain your difficulty a little more and also, how old are these children and what difficulties are you having with each specific child. Maybe we can work through more effective ways to discipline them that aren't difficult.

Allgirls.

Eta..I just read in your title that you have 9 children. I'm outta my league here..lol

Glad it is working for you. My children are 19 , 18 (NO raise in the GD technique, both exptremely resposible and in college--it was no, smakc the hand, and pretty soon NO was enough)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
I think it's very possible to be gentle while still maintaining firm boundaries for yourself and ensuring that your children understand that a family must balance the needs of all members.

Maybe you could give some examples of situations in which you feel that gentle discipline is ineffective, and we could brainstorm some solutions?

My boundaries are firm but ignired and I Fand I do follow through. I am tired of having to take a time out.



allgirls said:


> Dar said:
> 
> 
> > I think it's very possible to be gentle while still maintaining firm boundaries for yourself and ensuring that your children understand that a family must balance the needs of all members.
> ...


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## zonapellucida (Jul 16, 2004)

and in case anyone wonders, my firdge has 6 chore charts.....


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

OP: I'm sorry, but if your husband is undermining you, then GD isn't the problem. Your kids are caught in a power struggle, and _that_ is a problem. There is no discipline method in the world that will work when someone else, with roughly equally influence, is actively trying to prevent if from working.

My approach to my kids over the last few years has sucked. I've alternated between really seriously working at GD, and spending my days screaming and yelling and not enforcing anything (neither gentle nor discipline). My kids have suffered terribly, because of it. The whole root of the problem is that I've been under too much emotional strain from losing Aaron, and being afraid intermittently throughout my pregnancy with dd2 that I'd lose her, too...and being afraid the _whole_ time of the upcoming c-section. I was stressed, so I didn't have the patience I needed to use GD effectively. I was tired (from the pregnancy), so I didn't have the energy I needed to use GD effectively. The kids were _nuts_, because there was no effective discipline, _and_ they were pucking up on the emotions around here, _and_ they were worried about me and the baby.

So, life was crazy, and the kids were crazy, and I was crazy. We're _starting_ to come out of it now, but I'm sure I'll be dealing with the shockwaves for a long time.

And, with all that, I still didn't have anyone actively undermining what I was trying to do. This isn't about GD. This is about the dynamic between you and your husband. I wish I had some answers for you.


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## peabean26 (Jun 30, 2009)

Well, I only have one child myself, so I've never been on the mom end of having to discipline so many children. That said, my husband is one of 11 children and we've talked extensively about the effect of strict vs gentle (he calls it lax) parenting has had in his family.
He is one of the oldest children, and when he was young his mother was very strict. To the point of being abusive, where she would slap, pull hair, etc. My husband is a very kind and gentle person, as are the siblings in his age range. In a wierd way, his mother's harshness forced the children to stick together and make a little community for themselves. They didn't rat each other out, and generally tried to stick to the rules for frear that she would fly off the handle.
His youngest siblings have experienced an entirely different parenting. My mother-in-law had her last child the year my husband and I met (he was 24) and as an older mother she was waaayyy more relaxed about parenting. She pretty much lets her youngest boys walk all over her, yelling and demanding things from her (they are now 9, 11 and 16). She doesn't tell them what to do, doesn't have bedtimes, make them bathe daily, etc. These youngest boys act very selfishly. They think of themselves first, constantly interrupt adult conversation, never ask/ just take.
For my husband it is hard to be around his youngest siblings. He is constantly saying things like 'you don't talk that way to your mother' or ' we are a family and we stick together'. It is very distressing for him.

Overall, I'd say that neither end of my MIL's parenting spectrum is healthy. I rather prefer the concept of parenting set out in 'Continuum Concept', but I'm only in the early stages given my baby is only 7 months old!


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## Carley (Aug 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zonapellucida* 
Thank you Lisa because after reading the anseres to this post, I have felt absolutely horrible... All I wanted was a palce to vent.









I relate as much as I can being a mother of just one tyrant 3yo. I almost feel sad for mothers who are under the delusion they need to be perfect all the time so badly that they project their visions of their perfect selves onto us "IRL" internet people.








mama!!


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
I think it's very possible to be gentle while still maintaining firm boundaries for yourself and ensuring that your children understand that a family must balance the needs of all members.

Maybe you could give some examples of situations in which you feel that gentle discipline is ineffective, and we could brainstorm some solutions?









:

Exactly what I was going to say!

I think it's a huge misnomer that gentle discipline = no discipline. I always want to remind mamas that GENTLE is the key word that explains the style of discipline, or teaching, that we use with our children.

It's important to me to teach my children gently. That's what gentle discipline is. It's NOT saying 'ignore my boundaries and treat me like dirt while I wring my hands helplessly'. In fact, I get tons of compliments at how well my kids are behaving (out in public, go figure LOL). And, FWIW, gentle discipline doesn't equal zero consequences either. For me and our family, we find the simplest way to parent is to allow the natural consequences to occur (most of the time), and occassionally discuss/encourage some logical ones.

A natural consequence of treating someone poorly is they don't want to be around you very much. A logical consequence of losing your brother's hat is replacing it.

Sometimes I replace consequence with 'reaction' and that helps my perspective quite a bit. The word 'consequence' seems imposed and punitive, whether it's intended as natural or logical. That could be just me though LOL

Gentle discipline is striving to be calm and patience DESPITE their behavior. It's also about teaching them to set and honor respectful limits for themselves and others.

I'd love to hear you vent a little and maybe we can come up with some alternatives to your frustrations? The pre-teen years can be sooooooooo infuriating!


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## MommyKelly (Jun 6, 2009)

Big Hugs to you.

I also have 9. GD has worked wonderful on most of my kiddos. Then I have some that make me need a time out quite a bit.

Some kids just push limits further then others. At our house we do what works best for each child. There are times when I wonder if something "firmer" would work, but it just goes against my nature so we stick with trying to find a form of GD that works for that kid.

But I understand that feeling like your being walked on all the time.


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## mama2mygirl (Dec 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
I think it's very possible to be gentle while still maintaining firm boundaries for yourself and ensuring that your children understand that a family must balance the needs of all members.

Maybe you could give some examples of situations in which you feel that gentle discipline is ineffective, and we could brainstorm some solutions?

The children I know in real life, not mine, who seem like "little tyrants" are parents who claim to be using gentle discipline but aren't actually using any kind of discipline.


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