# C/S recovery & support thread



## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

After reading through the 'c/s forum' thread, it was suggested that we start a thread on c/s.

So here it is.

I'd like to keep it open to those who have issues with their c/s and those that don't. Hopefully we can support each other as we heal.









Right now, I'm almost on day 12 post-op. Feel a lot better, physically, after this c/s than with the c/s with ds. No idea why. I have to force myself to take it easy though. There were a few days when I pushed myself too far and things didn't go well, ER visit and all.









Mentally, I am between being okay of having had a failed VBAC since ds was not doing well, but then again, not. I feel, in some big way, broken. I am joking around with people, saying that well, at least my breasts work. Carrying a child to term or birthing them, that's iffy. But the boobs, they works.
















Ami


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

I'm 17 days post c/s with my son! I don't think I feel broken or that I failed at anything. I tried very hard for a natural med free,intervention free birth. The main goal of my birth though was to have an experience where the nurses and doctor listened to me and respected me and my choices. I went in to the hospital well informed with a great birth plan and a very supportive doula. I felt respected the whole time. I felt empowered the whole time. They gave me as much time as they could before suggesting a c-section. My son was in distress though and the 2nd time they suggested it,they were very firm about it and I knew I had to say yes. I feel I made the right choice.

I read recently on MDC a very good post about how maybe a womans body doesn't let her progress enough to have that natural vaginal birth as a way to protect her and her baby from a danger that no one can see,but the body does. So I'm glad to have the c-section if that's true and I like to think it is. My body knew what it was doing and it knew it needed help from the doctors and modern science.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Congrats to both of you!







Hope the rest of your recovery (physically and emotionally) goes well.









My last c-section was 3.5 years ago, so I'm pretty far out from it all by now, but I've had a total of four (2 after laboring - including a vba2c attempt - and 2 scheduled 'elective').

I'd love to have at least one more baby (have been TTC for 2 years now), so I'm subbing to this thread. Thanks for starting it. Hopefully those who have had c-sections or who will be having one feel comfortable sharing and asking questions here.


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamitaM* 
I read recently on MDC a very good post about how maybe a womans body doesn't let her progress enough to have that natural vaginal birth as a way to protect her and her baby from a danger that no one can see,but the body does. So I'm glad to have the c-section if that's true and I like to think it is. My body knew what it was doing and it knew it needed help from the doctors and modern science.

I completely feel that this was the case with Elias, my new little one. My first pregnancy ended at 16 weeks when I went into spontaneous labor. Baby was fine, no one knows why I went into labor. Just did. 3.5hrs later, he was born.

With ds2, I had an unnecessarean. Completely. I was dilating, but slowly. It was a darn induction for a first time full term mama, and they tried to c/s me at 8hrs into it. I made it to 22hrs before they took me to the OR.

With Elias, I just felt that something wasn't quite right. I started labor Sunday morning. Took an entire day for contractions to reach 5 min apart. Even then, I only dilated to a 3. Went in, got admitted, 7hrs later, dilated to a 4. Intense back/pelvic pain. Holy moly, I went without pain meds for 10 hrs of my pitocin induced labor--THAT was bearable. Also, even with a bit of a pitocin boost at 40 some odd hours into it, my contractions wouldn't get any closer than 3min apart, and space back out to 5 min. And the closer they got, the worse Elias did. He also couldn't get into position.

I feel like my biggest feelings of being broken/failure is because of the bias against trying for a VBA2C and people's looks of sympathy when hearing I've had yet another c/s. And then the comments about getting dh fixed, of stopping after Elias, etc. I want at least 2 more kids. And the way people talk, it makes me feel like I am so broken, that I should throw away all those desires.









Anyone else get this 'vibe'?

Ami


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

Ami I don't think you are broken and I don't think you failed. Birth is never completely in your control so you can't really blame yourself for "failing" when it doesn't go as you wanted. You did try. If you'd gone in and said "ok my water broke time for the c/s" then you can't say you tried to have a VBAC or natural birth.

I tired so hard for a natural birth. I waited close to 48 hours after my water broke to visit the hospital. My contractions weren't strong enough and I knew they'd want to give me pit right away if I went that Friday night. I didn't want that or ANY interventions. So I waited until Monday morning. My contractions had been strong,but not to close the night before,but stalled by the time I went,but I knew I had to go in b/c I had serious kidney pain.

They of course tried to get me to take the antibiotics and I kept saying no explaining I knew the risks of not taking them. I had to say yes to the cath though since I tried so hard for about 2 hours to pee and couldn't. Later on they suggested some IV fluids b/c I was dehydrated and my doula agreed that I should take it,but I said no. I later told them it was time for the fluids after getting sick 4 times. So much for the coconut juice I'd just drank to help me out. These 2 interventions seemed pretty natural to me and much needed so I said yes when I was ready for them.

I'd been there quite a while before they offered the pit,a few times and I kept saying no and explained my reasons for not wanting it. They explained my baby was in distress and I needed to move things along and fast,they gave me 30 minutes to start my own contractions,but that didn't help much so I said yes to the pit. They didn't offer me any pain meds though,they knew I'd ask if I wanted them. They knew not to offer them. The contractions got painful,but I handled them well enough. I'll have to ask my doula how long it went on before they talked about a c-section. It felt like forever.

I didn't dilate at all. I arrived at 3 1/2 cm and only got to 4 1/2 close to 24 hours later,even with the pit. They said it was time for the OB to come and talk to me about a s-section,they didn't ask me that time like they had a few hours before. They still didn't force me though,but they were firm and reminded me my baby was in distress and had been for a while. They all said I did well and that it was ok to have the section and if I did it would all be over soon. They all understood how tired I was and how frustrated I was getting.

I don't feel there is anything I could have done to make myself dilate any faster. Maybe I could have waited at home more,but I knew that if I couldn't pee or if I had a kidney infection and stayed home with it things could have been worse for me and the baby. I only went to the hospital b/c I followed my instinct.

I do sorta think that if I birthed vaginally I'd feel different though. I don't know how to explain it. I didn't get to see or feel my son come into the world. I only heard him cry as they pulled him out of me. I miss not being able to reach down and feel the top of his head,the nurses had felt his head during cervical checks though. Maybe I'm a bit envious they did and I didn't. I'm sad I didn't get to see his first mother,the placenta. I really wanted to touch her and take pictures of her. In the OR I didn't even think about that.


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## shells_n_cheese (Jun 8, 2009)

Congrats to both MamitaM and JTA mom! I wish very speedy and uneventful recoveries.

I had my c/s almost 4 years ago, for the birth of my 1st child. It was quite unexpected and at the time it was pretty traumatic for me. I did have a VBAC 2 yrs later with the homebirth of my daughter, but needless to say it was pretty traumatic, too. I'd say more so than my c/s. When we have our
3rd and final child, I still am not quite sure if I will attempt another vaginal birth (in the hospital), or just sign up for a cesarean.

Thank you for starting this thread, JTA. I hope it stays here, if you KWIM.


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## Altair (May 1, 2005)

I had a c-sec after a 65-70 hr active labor at home, and 15 hours of involuntary and voluntary pushing. There wasn't a chance in heck my boy's enormous coconut head was moving even an inch. I was a HB doula and quite cocky in my views of believing in a woman's ability to birth naturally. I had every bit of strength I needed, there was no wimping out... but at the end of my third watching the sun rise and set, I made the decision to transfer. That boy was STUCK and my body was convulsing and going crazy trying to fight against that fact.

The emotional recovery was made that much harder by the natural childbirth community.


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## shells_n_cheese (Jun 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamitaM* 
Ami I don't think you are broken and I don't think you failed. Birth is never completely in your control so you can't really blame yourself for "failing" when it doesn't go as you wanted. You did try.

YES.

I often called myself "broken" or "a failure" after my c/s. I thought my HBAC would "heal" me... and it did. But in ways I NEVER would have dreamed of.

My VBAC made me realize I really don't have a lot of control over how the birth will go -- even at home away from all the interventions and OB protocols. You just do it and you hope for the best.

If I needed or elected a c/s for my next child, I wouldn't think of myself as a failure. Just a mother who is about to meet her baby. I try not to put too much emphasis on the actual birth anymore. If all goes well next time, I will consider it a bonus.


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamitaM* 
Ami I don't think you are broken and I don't think you failed. Birth is never completely in your control so you can't really blame yourself for "failing" when it doesn't go as you wanted. You did try. If you'd gone in and said "ok my water broke time for the c/s" then you can't say you tried to have a VBAC or natural birth.

Thank you for saying this, Mamita. I have tears in my eyes.







I think that after the fluke way of losing Joseph, then the pre-eclampsia with ds2 and then 2 c/s, those around me see me as 'broken'. I mean, how many 'bad' side of the stats can one woman be?

I am also a perfectionist. I am not used to giving it my all and then not reaching my goals. Hence the feeling of failure. But you are right, birth is not something we can control. We can only do so much, but then the rest is out of our hands.

It's interesting though, that my Grandmother, who I am named after, also had childbearing issues. Her first child, my aunt, was delivered by c/s (way back in the 50s, in Greece too, so super antiquated stuff). Her second baby was miscarried around Joseph's gestation (16 weeks) and it was a boy. She had a severe scare with a car nearly hitting her, and went into labor. She then had my mother, also a c/s--however, she ruptured and had to be rushed to the mainland hospital. My mother was in an incubator and my Grandmother had to stay in the hospital the entire year afterwards due to the issues with that.

Sometimes I wonder if it's something with this name. Totally stupid and superstitious but still. It's not a common name, even in Greece. So who knows. Maybe it's a way for me to try to explain what is normally just chaos.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *shells_n_cheese* 
Congrats to both MamitaM and JTA mom! I wish very speedy and uneventful recoveries.

I had my c/s almost 4 years ago, for the birth of my 1st child. It was quite unexpected and at the time it was pretty traumatic for me. I did have a VBAC 2 yrs later with the homebirth of my daughter, but needless to say it was pretty traumatic, too. I'd say more so than my c/s. When we have our
3rd and final child, I still am not quite sure if I will attempt another vaginal birth (in the hospital), or just sign up for a cesarean.

Thank you for starting this thread, JTA. I hope it stays here, if you KWIM.

Thanks for the well wishes!







I don't know if it's okay for you to share, but how was your homebirth traumatic?

I am considering having a HBA2C with my next baby. I don't like hospitals at all, and am much more comfy at home. Who knows though.

My issue with the c/s, the main one, is that we want to have at least 2 more kids. And while some women have many c/s, it's not the 'norm'. I guess, I am scared of having someone else tell me when I should stop having kids. This time around, the surgeon said my uterus looked perfect--no issues. But who knows next time. And while this c/s was tons better (got a better anesthesiologist, so was awake this time--apparently I'm a light weight when it comes to that stuff) I still had to breathe through some of it. Just knowing they were cutting me open, moving stuff around, makes me a bit ill just thinking about it right now. At the time, I wanted to get up and run away!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Altair* 
I had a c-sec after a 65-70 hr active labor at home, and 15 hours of involuntary and voluntary pushing. There wasn't a chance in heck my boy's enormous coconut head was moving even an inch. I was a HB doula and quite cocky in my views of believing in a woman's ability to birth naturally. I had every bit of strength I needed, there was no wimping out... but at the end of my third watching the sun rise and set, I made the decision to transfer. That boy was STUCK and my body was convulsing and going crazy trying to fight against that fact.

The emotional recovery was made that much harder by the natural childbirth community.

I lol'ed at the coconut head comment!









I agree with the last part. Sometimes I wonder if I just wasn't strong enough. But shoot, both of us have had DAYS of labor. Even Mamita had days worth of labor.

I get so mad when others, who have had less than one day's worth of labor, tell me that I just didn't give it enough time. I'm sorry, but after 30hrs + of regular contractions, I was EXHAUSTED. There was no 'sleeping through' those suckers, k?

But then my perfectionist side perks up, and goes 'told ya so'. Didn't give it enough time. Maybe if you had waited until 24hrs after your water broke (so if I had decided to labor for 14 more hours) until given no choice, or if you had waited until Elias had really started to crash, you would have done all you can.

But, then the other part of me, the part that could think still, saw that I only had 2 choices, really. One was an emergency c/s--knock me out and literally rip Elias out. OR I could suck it up, give them enough time to put in a working epidural, get properly sedated and give the surgeon time to do a proper c/s.

And as hard as a c/s is, I remember hating how 'out of it' I was with ds2. And how I hated that I didn't get to see him until 24hrs after the birth. And how about the first 6-8 hrs after surgery, I don't remember much, if anything. I actually REMEMBER the surgery, the recovery room and, the most beautiful part, Elias' cry. I missed hearing ds2's cry. There's no way I was doing that again.

It was odd too. I was instantly bonded to Joseph when he was born vaginally. I was instantly bonded to Elias as soon as dh brought him to me. With Stephen, it took time to be bonded. I don't have the memory of feeling him leave my body, of seeing him withing minutes of that like with my other two sons. I think it's a huge reason why my first c/s was so traumatic. I mentally *knew* I had given birth, but the animalistic side, the 'mama bear' side, couldn't make sense of it for a while.

Sorry for going on and on and on. I just feel like getting this all out is helpful. And it's hard to talk to those around me who haven't btdt. I don't know anyone else who's had a c/s. And I don't think many people get it, with regards to recovery. Even the nurses in the hospital were callous. I mean, the day after surgery, I can't exactly move around well, so getting up out of bed, standing up and taking my crying baby out of the bassinet--I need help with that. Help I wasn't getting. And they didn't allow dh or anyone else to stay overnight.







I am torn though--their surgeons are excellent, since it's a HUGE public hospital, so if I need another c/s, I definitely want to go there. Afterwards though, I want a different hospital to recuperate in!









Ami


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## shells_n_cheese (Jun 8, 2009)

JTA Mom, we had a shoulder dystocia.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Thread crashing (i know! Rude!) just to nod in agreement about the natural birth community second-guessing and/or judging. I've been very lucky with my births but it does wear me out when people dress that luck up as "good effort" or "skill". I was lucky. I have had 4 miscarriages, so please don't tell me about how my body works perfectly or i was made to birth babies. More of my children have died in this womb than been safely delivered from it. I'm very grateful that i haven't had a c-s, but i was born by c-s and i know my mum didn't fail me, quite the opposite - she loved me so desperately she faced some massive fears and submitted to painful surgery and recovery to get me here. She was made of IRON, her motto was always "have plan B" - she was always the one for "what's the next viable alternative?", sure she didn't always get to do things the easy or "right" (according to other peoples opinions) way, but her flexibility got 6 kids raised (4 of whom she raised as a single mama), meant she was never without a way to earn money, and got her 7 years of life AFTER she was given 6-12months when her cancer was diagnosed.

When i think of the things so many women front up to and bear out, only to be told by others they have failed







It makes me so sad and angry.

I'm not wording any of this very well, but i just wanted to tell you that i think you are amazing, not failures. I hate how as women society can fail us, medicine can fail us, plain old LUCK can fail us, and at the end there will be a blame and it will be rested heavily onto the shoulders of the individual. For me a good mother is courageous, a good mother is flexible, a good mother is loving. Arguably many of you were more courageous, flexible and loving on the day your babies were born than i was after a year of motherhood.


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## MoonStarFalling (Nov 4, 2004)

Quote:

she loved me so desperately she faced some massive fears and submitted to painful surgery and recovery to get me here.
This made me tear up. This is just how my last birth went. I was really let down when my birth community couldn't recognize what an amazing thing I had just done...even if it wasn't roaring out a baby at home.

shells_n_cheese, yes and yes. Actually my second c/s ended up being very healing. Totally changed my thinking and my focus for this coming birth.

I'm 3 years out from my HBAC transfer. I still had lots to process during this pregnancy.


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
- she loved me so desperately she faced some massive fears and submitted to painful surgery and recovery to get me here.

Thank you for saying this!

I am TERRIFIED of surgery. Always have been. I was sobbing with ds2. SOBBING.

This time around, when I saw Elias' heart rate plummeting, over and over, having to roll around jiggling my belly to keep him above 90, I *knew* what I was facing. And I was still terrified. I didn't tell anyone (you all are the first to hear this) but as they were wheeling me to the OR and prepping me, all I could think of was that I might die on the table. I could just bleed out. Or worse, after surgery, get a huge infection. These thought were constantly running through my head. It doesn't help that my maternal Grandparents had to have surgeries, and it didn't work out well for them. They never got better and my Grandma, at least, died from an embolism due to her last surgery. So, yea, the terror of surgery runs deep. Even my mom, seeing her grandson's heartrate, didn't want me to go in. In fact, during surgery, while they were stitching me up, she was saying that we should stop at the two we have, because of the major surgeries I had to go through.

-----------------------------------------------

Have any of you c/s mamas found that most people brush off how major a surgery a c/s is? I find that I have to remind people I am barely 13 days out of having had major surgery, so my energy/abilities are not in the 'normal' range. It's hard enough for me to take care of my newborn and my toddler (thank goodness for Netflix on demand!), much less make sure I eat/drink enough during the day to keep from passing out at the end of the day.

It's a weird disconnect. Also, those of you with more than one older child, how do you do it? I am having a lot of family help right now, but I'm not sure of having the same amount of help if we are blessed with another one. How do you keep from falling apart?

Ami


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## shells_n_cheese (Jun 8, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
Have any of you c/s mamas found that most people brush off how major a surgery a c/s is? I find that I have to remind people I am barely 13 days out of having had major surgery, so my energy/abilities are not in the 'normal' range. It's hard enough for me to take care of my newborn and my toddler (thank goodness for Netflix on demand!), much less make sure I eat/drink enough during the day to keep from passing out at the end of the day.

It's a weird disconnect. Also, those of you with more than one older child, how do you do it? I am having a lot of family help right now, but I'm not sure of having the same amount of help if we are blessed with another one. How do you keep from falling apart?

I am also afraid of surgery. I was really naive going into the induction, and didn't even think a c/s was a real possibility (I know, ridiculous), so when my OB told me, "We need to do a c/s", it was like being hit with a Mac truck. I think I went into shock after that.

YES! People brush off c/s all the time! It's like they simply equate it with the process of having a child--and totally have amnesia about the major surgery part. It is very irritating. Example: a few weeks after my c/s, I was at a get-together at my parents' house. My sister had dental surgery a few days prior, and my father asked her how she was feeling, etc. etc. I was hurt and angry. He NEVER ONCE asked me how I was after the c/s, and it is major surgery! I also had dental surgery before, and it was NOTHING like having and recovering from a c/s. No one (besides DH) asked me how I was. The only thing I was asked by my family was to see my incision, as they had never seen a c/s incision -- I felt like a figgen circus freak!









After I had my c/s, I only had the one child, so I haven't had to take care of multiple children after surgery. It was tough with one though, but I also had NO help. My family was across the state, my DH went back to work a few days after the birth, and we had just moved to the town so we knew no one.

Hang in there Ami. Keep trying to take it easy and taking advantage of Netflix!







I can't imagine more than one to care for with no help.


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## First Time Mama (Jan 26, 2007)

I had a c/s three years ago. I was convinced I was going to have a homebirth, I had been a doula and a midwifery student prior. I planned a hombirth, labored at home for a long time, and my son never descended and ended up getting stuck in a posterior position. I pushed for many hours, off an on throughout a night, before I made the decision to transfer in the early morning hours. Having a c section was emotionally devastating for me, and I did feel like a failure for a long time, although I don't feel that way anymore. I think that my c section may have been avoidable if things had been handled differently during my early labor, but that by the time we got to the hospital it was probably the best choice. However, it has taken me a long time to feel that way, and the c section was traumatic for me. I am planning my HBAC, and trying really hard to have faith in birth again, but as much as I think you can put in effort and be educated and make the right choices for yourself, and that all of those things increase the odds of a good experience, I know ultimately the outcome of labor is not something that can be controlled, and I hope if I have another c/s that I it can be better last time , and I won't feel traumatized.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
Have any of you c/s mamas found that most people brush off how major a surgery a c/s is?

Yes...almost everybody. When I was getting prepped for my fifth (and last!!) c-section last year, the anesthesiologist came in, and looked at the IV that had been placed. She immediately said it wasn't adequate and needed to be replaced, because it wouldn't take a transfusion fast enough if something went wrong. She then said, "I don't expect anything to go wrong, but _this is major surgery, as much as we try to pretend it isn't_". I wanted to kiss her. Over the course of five c-sections, with five different medical teams (one OB did two of them, and my family doctor assisted at the same two...but everyone else was different), she's the _only_ medpro to acknowledge that. As for the general public? Forget it. I've been told that I'm lucky I didn't have to push a baby out, that I "got off easy" and and that I "cheated". The fact that this is surgery seems to right past people's heads.


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

Thanks for starting this thread! Lots of people on mdc have been talking about how we need a thread like this








I am pretty well healed from my c section 6 months or so ago. Now I am scared of birth though- as my birth did not go as I had thought. So now that is a factor in if I want another child or not (not the main factor though- the main factor is do we want a second child! but it is on my mind) Scared of a c section, scared of a vaginal birth - just scared of it in general after my last experience.


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *shells_n_cheese* 
YES! People brush off c/s all the time! It's like they simply equate it with the process of having a child--and totally have amnesia about the major surgery part. It is very irritating.

I am sorry about the shoulder dystocia.







Sometimes I feel that we mamas who have had a c/s deserve much calmer, easier births afterwards. I mean, seriously, can't *one* go well?
















Quote:


Originally Posted by *First Time Mama* 
I am planning my HBAC, and trying really hard to have faith in birth again, but as much as I think you can put in effort and be educated and make the right choices for yourself, and that all of those things increase the odds of a good experience, I know ultimately the outcome of labor is not something that can be controlled, and I hope if I have another c/s that I it can be better last time , and I won't feel traumatized.

I don't remember where in my journey I've read it, but somewhere someone said birth is like swimming the english channel. Sometimes, it's a clear, sunny day, and you have the wind at your back. Other days, it's dark and stormy, and you get a leg cramp halfway through. For some reason, we've had the dark & stormy days. I hope, for you, that you get a nice clear, sunny day for your HBAC!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
Yes...almost everybody. When I was getting prepped for my fifth (and last!!) c-section last year, the anesthesiologist came in, and looked at the IV that had been placed. She immediately said it wasn't adequate and needed to be replaced, because it wouldn't take a transfusion fast enough if something went wrong. She then said, "I don't expect anything to go wrong, but _this is major surgery, as much as we try to pretend it isn't_". I wanted to kiss her. Over the course of five c-sections, with five different medical teams (one OB did two of them, and my family doctor assisted at the same two...but everyone else was different), she's the _only_ medpro to acknowledge that. As for the general public? Forget it. I've been told that I'm lucky I didn't have to push a baby out, that I "got off easy" and and that I "cheated". The fact that this is surgery seems to right past people's heads.

Thank goodness she said that! I had a nurse chastise me when I told her how bad I was feeling 2 days post-op and I was angry for feeling that way. She said, and I quote "you've just been through major surgery. Did you just think you'd be like normal the next day? If you had had bladder surgery, no one would have half the expectations of you as they do now".

And it's so true. Even the other nurses there, they didn't really help me. There was no nursery for ds to go back to. Honestly, it was hellish. For the first 2 days I couldn't pick up my son from his bassinet. Or change him. Or do anything other than bf. And the nurses did not help me pick him up at all. In fact, during the night once, he started screaming, and I paged a nurse, asking for help because I couldn't pick him up. NO ONE CAME. Thank God for the mother rooming in with me--she got up and helped me get my baby. The feeling of helplessness, of hearing my baby screaming and not being able to get to him, is horrible. Even now, I feel like I push myself a lot because if I don't, who will take care of my babies? When ds2 is hungry, I have to get him food. When both have poopy diapers, I have to change them. If I don't wash clothes every couple days, we'd be walking around naked.

Oh, and those people saying I 'cheated' or got the easy way out.







Honestly, sometimes I want to take a scalpel and cut them open, stitch them up and then 1) sleep deprive them, 2) force them to pump every 30min to 2hrs (randomly too, and sometimes in chunks back to back), 3) make them walk around, changing clothes/diapers/etc. Then ask them how 'easy' it is.























Quote:


Originally Posted by *Snapdragon* 
Now I am scared of birth though- as my birth did not go as I had thought. So now that is a factor in if I want another child or not (not the main factor though- the main factor is do we want a second child! but it is on my mind) Scared of a c section, scared of a vaginal birth - just scared of it in general after my last experience.

As scary as this second c/s is, I too want another baby. It's crazy how even through all that fear, the desire for another baby is still there. If you want to tell more about your birth, just to get it out, feel free to. As you can see, I've been letting it all hang out in this thread. I need to talk about it openly, to others who've btdt, to process it. And it has helped. Knowing I can come here and just lay it out and have women who *get it*--oh, geez, does that ever help.









Ami


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## happyblessedmama (Sep 6, 2003)

So I'm 1 month (and 2 days!) post c/s... joining because I feel like it can't hurt and can only help! I am not tooooo emotionally torn up about it because I do think mine was necessary... baby was transverse in active labor with a cord presenting. Not much you can do about that...

re: sympathy expression - people do that to me because I had 5 vaginal deliveries and then this c/s. I don't look at it as something to be "sorry" about, there wasn't really another way about it so I had to take the ride, KWIM?

I don't think I've necessarily had an easy recovery. I still can't do a lot of the stuff I want to do! I'm still taking ibuprofin and other rx meds (which I'm almost out of)... because I still have pain if I do "too much"... but I don't hit "too much" until it's too late!

I'm hoping soon... soon the pain will be completely gone?


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## palmgal (Mar 7, 2004)

Hi everyone, what a great idea







I am 24 weeks pregnant and preparing for my second c-section, third birth. My first birth was a drug-free natural birth with few complications until the very end. I had a pretty bad shoulder dystocia which was resolved when the OB reached in twisted (and broke) her collarbone and pulled her out. The alarms were going off, doctors were running into the room, and although she is fine now it was pretty touch and go for awhile, she had an apgar of 1 when she was delivered.

With my second, I was diagnosed with gestational (actually type 1) diabetes at 9 weeks. I was placed with a high risk practice and was told fro the very beginning that I should expect a section. Of course, I fought this the whole pregnancy. The doctor explained that I was at high risk for another dystocia because of my previous dystocia, this time I was diabetic, and this baby was a boy and would likely be heavier and broader in the shoulders. As I got closer to birth I got less and less brave, as I started to remember how terrifying it was during an actual birth emergency. I finally consented to the section. The actual section went much better than I imagined, I had a quick recovery and no complications.

Now I am starting to freak out about the whole process again. I remember how long it took to start feeling "normal" again after the surgery. I remember how scared I was being rolled into surgery. Not looking forward to it!

I do have some questions for those who have recently gone through it. My son had low blood sugar after birth (not shocking since my blood sugar went sky-high during surgery and they really lagged providing me insulin). The had to supplement him with formula at first, but they did not even offer him to me to nurse (presumably because his sugar was quite low). This time I am planning on pre-pumping colostrum prior to delivery. I would of course, rather nurse him right away. Did any c-section mamas get to nurse immediately (i.e. while they were still completing the operation), and was it difficult positioning the baby?

Thanks!


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

I'm actually tearing up reading some of these posts and I'm 5years out from my c/s.

I think for me the c/s "broke" something emotionally/spiritually. The labor was long, the eagle-eye hindsight made it clear that it wouldn't have happened vaginally regardless of how long we waited, the surgery was done by a pro and healed quickly with minimal complications. But I had PPD and PTSD, almost no real world support, and it was a hard slog back to anything approaching normal.

Then my first VBAC resulted in a lot of physical trauma (shoulder dystocia that didn't resolve with position changes, 4th degree tear leading to hundreds of sutures to "rebuild" my pelvic floor/vagina/anus, scary low apgars and possible ongoing nerve damage to dd2 due to oxygen deprivation, pelvic organ prolapse, etc) and while I was buffered from the worst of the emotional distress thanks to the "yay I vbac'd!" energy... well, that energy wears off. And since I was in pain for a solid year and caring for a toddler and a high needs/special needs infant and working out of the home... it was hard. Not the rainbows and butterflies you hear about in most vbac threads. I'm glad I had that birth, glad I was able to heal some of the emotional wounding of my c/s but it left as many wounds as it healed. And left me in the odd position of being a "problem"... people who were against vbac were all "see? you should have had a rc/s" and people who were all yay vbac didn't want to hear that it was anything other than perfect. It left me very few places to process the birth.

I did have a second vbac last year but I was scared the whole time... scared of a rc/s and scared of a repeat shoulder dystocia or 4th degree tear. It went well but the whole time I was worried and sort of trying to balance worse case scenarios. Not exactly a restful pregnancy.


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## MaryLang (Jun 18, 2004)

Wombatclay. That does sound like a hard situation. I'm sorry it's been a long time processing.
I am preparing for my 5th C/S. I'm scheduled for 3 weeks from now. 5 days before my EDD.
My first I was determined to have a natural birth. I took all the bradley classes, had my doula, midwife and birth center. After days of posterior labor and 2.5 hrs pushing, my mind and my body gave out, and I had a c/s. They found that my dd's head was "stuck" in my pelvis bone, and all that time I was pushing, I was pushing her into my bone, she had a nice bruise from it. I know logically, there are things I could have done differently, move around more, all those techniques I read about now to help get the baby out of the pelvis and repositioned.
Nonetheless, it is what it is. My 2nd was a "failed" VBAC (never got to the pushing stage). My biggest regret has been this one, not giving it enough time.
3rd one sealed the deal. Planned VBA2C, bleeding placenta previa at 35wks, and placenta problems during surgery (placenta was also anterior).
So 4 and now 5 rc/s.
I think I've pretty much processed through it. I mean I don't feel like any less of a mother or anything. This is just how I birth my babies.
I am terrified of another surgery, always am. Recoveries have been pretty easy though. And I like the hospital I deliver at, they give my baby right to me. Best possible situation if I "have" to deliver this way.


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## batlvr (Jul 27, 2010)

My first c/s was almost 16 years ago after a hellish labor, pitocin, cord prolapse and a baby that just would not cooperate. I dialated to 9 then just 'stopped' I felt like a complete failure, I was barely 21 and what did I know? I beat myself up for that and still do at times. I *know* there was no other way but I was so angry at myself, at my body for failing me. Now I am expecting my DD and every doc I have spoken to automatically wants the repeat c/s. I am "old" "obese" have "chronic high BP" - although it is medically controlled and has not been an issue even once during this pregnancy. DD is breech and expected to be on the big side (9lbs+). I had my heart set on a VBAC but not one doc is willing to go there. Somedays I feel like I have "potential lawsuit" stamped on my forehead, week after week the docs act like they've won the lottery when my test results come back normal or my sonogram looks good. I am now at the place where I can accept that I am going to have to have this repeat section and it is the safest thing for my baby girl but only 1 person IRL can understand how this makes me feel. My SIL has been a HUGE support to me, no one else understands that this impending section is a big disappointment. Others, even other c/s mommas IRL are like "oh, just have it done, no big deal" but as you all know, it is a big deal and not something we would just sign up for to take the easy way out.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wombatclay* 

I think for me the c/s "broke" something emotionally/spiritually.


This is how I feel. I'm now 2 weeks out, and feel broken emotionally and spiritually. I feel like I'm in part mad at God for making me wrong and not being able to bring my babies into the world peacefully. I want that for them, and I did everything I knew to do to prepare. Ours was a HBAC transfer for relief after 24-36+hrs (I made it a point not to look at the clock) with back pain from hell, and turns out we had a placental abruption.

I feel like every plan I made to make it a gentle experience was taken from me. The hospital staff were quite understanding about my wishes and did everything they could to do skin to skin in the OR, etc, but with a baby that stopped breathing, it wasn't an option.

It's good to read other's struggles as I really feel like I'm the only one who hurts this way.

All of the, 'well at least you are both healthy', 'look at your amazing baby though' 'at least you skipped hemmheroids', etc are all crap, and piss me off, and really, after the person leaves, makes me only want to hit something.

I'm in a pretty dark place now, as BFing is crap right now. We are actually making our own baby formula today because commercial formula causes issues with her (just like my son, who was sick the first 8 months of his life due to formula), and my milk is still 'coming in' as I wait for my Domperidone to get here from Canada. I can't birth my babies, now I feel like I can't even feed my babies, seriously, at times, what good am I, I wish they had a different mother for these things because my kids deserve better.

I think the more you know about risks, options, and decisions, the more you can be disappointed. I wish I were one of those moms who thought a CS was just another way to birth, and no big difference and formula and breastmilk have minimal differences, etc, so I would just be in the dark and not care.

Sadly, after our birth it's really too risky (I feel) to have another. Being a VBA2C for 'failure to progress', with a previous abruption in labor with NO signs of it, it would have to be an ERCS, which I don't want, and I frankly don't want to undergo this crap again. Not even being able to 'try' for a peaceful birth is worse than trying and failing.

I'm thankful for having a CS as it truly did save both our lives, she was cut off from my oxygen supply, and I could have easily hemorrhaged. But, I would have preferred a simply, peaceful birth of my baby, at home, in the water, into my arms, to my breast, etc.

I think it's evident that I still have some working on this to do.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Thanks for starting this thread! My DD's 2nd birthday is on Saturday, and I'm realizing both how far I've come in my healing from the c-section, and also how deep & lasting the wounds are (mostly the emotional/spiritual ones at this point).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wombatclay* 
I'm actually tearing up reading some of these posts and I'm 5years out from my c/s.

I think for me the c/s "broke" something emotionally/spiritually. The labor was long, the eagle-eye hindsight made it clear that it wouldn't have happened vaginally regardless of how long we waited, the surgery was done by a pro and healed quickly with minimal complications. But I had PPD and PTSD, almost no real world support, and it was a hard slog back to anything approaching normal.


I can so relate to this. 1) I am totally teary eyed as I read this. And 2) I also had a hard slog back to normal. Not sure I'm totally there yet, but it's getting better.

I just worked up the courage to request my medical records and they arrived in the mail two days ago. I've ready through them several times now. If I had any question that c-sec is major surgery, reading the play-by-play account of each part of me they cut, moved, cleaned, stitched, etc took care of that. Holy crap. I would have freaked out if I'd gotten that info any sooner than I did. But--sign of healing--at this point I can read through the whole thing and feel mostly fascinated, not horrified.

At this point in my journey, the hardest part is envy. I want to be a supportive friend who celebrates my friends' joyful birth experiences. Instead, I have this claw of jealousy & self-pity that grabs my chest and makes me feel ill when I read their FB posts. My congratulations have this wan flatness to them. And I have this weird hope (is that the right word?) that someone I know will also have a prolonged, traumatic birth so that I can relate to them for a change. Did I just say that? It's so petty & horrible!!! Of course I don't want anyone to go through what I went through & I am happy for my friends when things go well. Except for this small, dark, heavy troll inside me that hates everyone who has a nice birth. Ug. I just hope that my weirdness is less legible to my friends than it is to me. It's not who I want to be, but there it is. I hope over time this part will get easier.








to everyone.


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## Chamomile Girl (Nov 4, 2008)

Aw Austin Mom







s.

I had my section after 30 hours of mostly "natural" labor. It was pretty classic failure to progress. I wish I knew why. I think I ended up on the table because the whole thing started with my water breaking, and in a hospital birth you can only hold them off for so long. Plus I had (have) a deep, deep fear of laboring while being strapped to a table. By the end of 30 hours I was given two options: Pump me full of pitocin and strap me to the table or C/S. I chose the latter over the misgivings of my midwife.







I honestly can't see how the first option would have led to a vaginal birth anyways given my overwhelming fear of that very senario.

By that time also I was sure that something.was.wrong. I trust my body, and it just wasn't working. I've not yet requested my medical records to see if there are any answers there, but I might do so in the future. Because I had done my research I knew that a section was dangerous and that recovery would not be lightly taken, but nothing prepared me for what it actually was like. I didn't know about adhesions, I had no idea that I would end up with a nasty raised purple scar that will never fade.

Recovery was super crappy. I didn't feel like myself until my son was almost a year old. I still struggle with looking at myself naked because I feel like Frankenmother. I wonder how my husband can still find me beautiful when he actually saw someone cut me open and reach down inside of me







.

I do think that women who have a difficult birth (including many C sections) take a dangerous first step towards negleting their needs for those of their child/children. It goes along with what society tells you over and over again: "Well at least your baby is healthy". I am thankful my baby is healthy, but I also want acknowledgement that my health as his mother is just as vital. I mean c'mon!


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Yesterday night and today, mentally, I'm not doing so well. I had put out a question on VBA2C providers on my local ICAN group. Had a very unhelpful reply from a midwife. Apparently my choices were asking doctors from a certain hospital (yea, because apparently they are less strict than a homebirth midwife???) or I could get a 'traveling' midwife. Let me get this straight, I am so 'high risk' she wouldn't take me on, but somehow I'm supposed to be safe with some midwife who doesn't know me/has never met me except in labor?

And then a doctor from said hospital responded with 'sure, as long as she had had a previous vaginal birth'. Which, technically, I do have. Except it's not usually counted since I was 'only' 16 weeks.

Which triggered a panic attack at facing a RCS due to no choice. I literally broke down sobbing and telling dh I didn't know if I could do this again. But that I wasn't done with pregnancy/having babies. But I don't know if I can just go and sign up for a RCS. Everything went fine the last two times, but still, wouldn't I be insane for signing up for major surgery again?

How do/did you mamas with numerous RCS do it?

Ami

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AustinMom* 
This is how I feel. I'm now 2 weeks out, and feel broken emotionally and spiritually. I feel like I'm in part mad at God for making me wrong and not being able to bring my babies into the world peacefully.

I am here too.







And I'm 2 weeks out too--maybe this is normal? I got so mad at God yesterday night. Why did he give me the ability to get pregnant easily and then...

....lose one baby by going into spontaneous labor
....give me a serious pregnancy condition, leading to c/s and NICU time for my next baby
.....and finally, give me the most excruciating labor, then watch and feel as my son started crashing between contractions, leading to another c/s

Seriously, why this messed up bs? Oh, and dh and I are not okay with permanent sterilization or abortion (for ourselves).

I seriously wonder what I did wrong to have to face losing a child and facing this terror of surgery. I mean, at least I could have been blase about surgery. Right? Right?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *CI Mama* 
At this point in my journey, the hardest part is envy.....And I have this weird hope (is that the right word?) that someone I know will also have a prolonged, traumatic birth so that I can relate to them for a change. Did I just say that? It's so petty & horrible!!! Of course I don't want anyone to go through what I went through & I am happy for my friends when things go well. Except for this small, dark, heavy troll inside me that hates everyone who has a nice birth.

I have that troll too. And she's an evil one.
















I sometimes wonder why no one else around me has had to deal with this. I have to keep reminding myself that even those 'glorious' vaginal births aren't always good. That sometimes, there are serious physical issues that crop up too.

But then, I will always wonder if it is the same as recuperating from major surgery. I mean, can it ever really get that bad?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happyblessedmama* 

I don't think I've necessarily had an easy recovery. I still can't do a lot of the stuff I want to do! I'm still taking ibuprofin and other rx meds (which I'm almost out of)... because I still have pain if I do "too much"... but I don't hit "too much" until it's too late!

I'm hoping soon... soon the pain will be completely gone?

Going back to normal takes a while. With ds2, my first c/s, I didn't start getting back to normal, physically, until about 6-9mos post-partum. Definitely didn't feel 100% physically until 1 yr out. Remember, they had to cut your abs completely apart to get to your baby. It's major surgery, and the physical healing takes time.

For the pain, I haven't had to take any meds for a few days--I think that's all individual. According to the OB & anesthesiologist, I have a high pain tolerance since I don't need much to knock me out. Which scares me a bit, because, well, if I have a high pain tolerance AND I was going out of my mind in pain during the last few hours of labor with Elias--how painful must it have really been?









Quote:


Originally Posted by *palmgal* 
Now I am starting to freak out about the whole process again. I remember how long it took to start feeling "normal" again after the surgery. I remember how scared I was being rolled into surgery. Not looking forward to it!

Did any c-section mamas get to nurse immediately (i.e. while they were still completing the operation), and was it difficult positioning the baby?

Thanks!

Okay, so freaking out again--normal. Good to know.

I didn't nurse immediately. I think it was a couple hours after surgery? I'm not good with time, but I had to wait in the recovery room for a while before being released to the maternity ward. As soon as I got to my room, I asked for my baby and we started nursing then.

Ami


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

Thank you so much JTA Mom for starting this thread and everyone who's added to it. I think it's helping a lot of get things out and heal,even those of us who didn't think they needed to heal. I don't feel traumatized,but I do feel sad for the things that I had to give up when I chose to have a c-section.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AustinMom* 
I can't birth my babies, now I feel like I can't even feed my babies, seriously, at times, what good am I, I wish they had a different mother for these things because my kids deserve better.

I think the more you know about risks, options, and decisions, the more you can be disappointed. I wish I were one of those moms who thought a CS was just another way to birth, and no big difference and formula and breastmilk have minimal differences, etc, so I would just be in the dark and not care.

I think you're kids have a great mother. Most mothers wouldn't make their own formula or find a way to BF or get breastmilk for their kids if they couldn't provide it themselves. Most would just give whatever formula the doc told them to. I personally think I'd be to lazy to make my own formula if I needed to.

For me I needed to know the risks,options and decisions and I needed a written plan. I think it was how I grew up,in foster care where I never had a choice in much of anything and often had no idea what was going on or why and what would happen next. I think my birth would have been very traumatic,vaginal,natural or c-section if I wasn't informed about birth the way I was.

I was so against me having a c-section that I refused to think about much before I went into labor. I didn't do much research so wasn't to sure exactly what would happen and I needed to know,it made me more scared not knowing what exactly was going on when they put up that sheet so I couldn't see.

The worst part about it,was my fear. The fear that I got from a very stupid woman who told me some garbage about a board that they would put on my belly for days/weeks after my c-section and she convinced me that IF I had one I'd never recover,it would take me forever to recover and I wouldn't be able to take care of my baby or myself after. None of this was true! The "board" she was talking about was something like Belly Band and the hospital doesn't give them to you,they are optional. That is what I have anger about. That stupid woman who had no business telling me this garbage about c-sections and not having any confidence in me at all if I were to have a c-section. I actually think it was dangerous for her to tell me that.

The first few days,it's true I needed help to get out of bed to pee,take my baby out of his bed and hand him to me in my bed and things like that. The nurses helped me though.

I know that some mamas do take a long time to feel better or back to normal. I feel much,much better. Not quite back to normal yet though. I'm a bit slow and tender in my belly. It feels lumpy and looks a bit strange. MY steri strips are still on,but they should come off soon I think. I actually see the doctor for my son tomorrow and will have the nurse look at my incision since today there was a bit of blood and ooze that came out. It may not be anything,but I need it checked.

Emotionally I feel great! I'm so happy and feel so lucky! I've wanted a baby for such a long time and had almost given up on the idea of it ever happening. My pregnancy was fairly easy except a couple very minor problems. My labor was easy enough and I never felt in danger,maybe that's why I don't consider my c-section an emergency or traumatic?

I feel so lucky! I kept having this feeling that my son would be well behaved and and easy baby and so far he is. I feel that I struggled so hard in most of my life with different things and now this beautiful,healthy,happy baby is my reward. So,no I don't feel like I failed.


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## KayTeeJay (Jul 22, 2008)

Oh mamas...I am right there with you. Thanks for starting this thread. My son was born by emergency c-sec in Jan of 09, and I am still not over it. I am expecting again in December and I have soo much anxiety about this birth. I am going for a VBAC, but who knows what will happen.

I have another board I frequent with close friends I've known for years, and two of them are expecting their first. As we were having a csec discussion and I was posting about how hard it was for me both physically and emotionally, another friend asked something to the effect of "why does it matter as long as the baby is healthy?" I adore this person and she truly didn't mean anything by it, but it was like a slap in the face to me. As if I only cared about MY desires and my own birth plan, above even the health of my baby. Again, I know she didn't mean it like that, but it still stung.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KayTeeJay* 
Oh mamas...I am right there with you. Thanks for starting this thread. My son was born by emergency c-sec in Jan of 09, and I am still not over it. I am expecting again in December and I have soo much anxiety about this birth. I am going for a VBAC, but who knows what will happen.

I have another board I frequent with close friends I've known for years, and two of them are expecting their first. As we were having a csec discussion and I was posting about how hard it was for me both physically and emotionally, another friend asked something to the effect of "*why does it matter as long as the baby is healthy?*" I adore this person and she truly didn't mean anything by it, but it was like a slap in the face to me. As if I only cared about MY desires and my own birth plan, above even the health of my baby. Again, I know she didn't mean it like that, but it still stung.










In response to things like this and 'healthy baby healthy mom is all that matters', I usually say, 'well, you don't get a good birth experience with a dead mom or baby, and after many births the health of the mom and baby are quite debatable.'


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

How is everyone doing today?

It is my friend's b-day, so she came over and we had cake.









I must say, getting some sleep helped. A lot.

My mood is much, much better.

For now. It feels like everything is day/hour dependent. My incision is itching like crazy though. I know that's a sign of healing, but I want to scratch.so.bad.

Anyone remember the physical limitation time line? I feel really good 15 days out, but if I remember correctly, I'm not supposed to do certain things (can't remember what those are) before 6 weeks, and even after that.

Ami


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## happyhats (Jun 23, 2008)

I had a cesearan with my dd, born in December of 2008. Looking back on it I do think a lot of what happened was because she just wasn't ready to come out, but who knows? I'm comfortable with the outcome though. I'm having a second c section this December with a little boy. My doctor is supportive of a vbac, though, so we'll see what happens. I've had complications during this pregnancy and honestly my instincts are telling me that the c section is a healthier/safer route than induction would be. The doctor wants to induce because I've been suffering high blood pressure and it's been creeping slowly upwards as I progress, rather than let me go to and beyond my EDD. I didn't have a bad recovery with my dd, and I'm feeling pretty comfortable and relaxed about the surgery itself, even though I really wanted to vbac before I got pregnant and earlier in the pregnancy. Maybe our body/mind connection really is spot on.

I'm worried about how long I'll be away from my daughter, since cesearan mommas usually stay longer at the hospital. I've never been apart overnight at all from her. I'm lucky to have support close by and my hubby can take vacation and fmla if necessary to help me during recovery, but I'm still worried about my ability to care for two little ones on my own. On one hand, my hubs was unemployed for a while when dd was born so caring for a newborn on my own is scary anyway, and secondly the idea of two little ones is just overwhelming no matter how I deliver my little man.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

I had a great day today! I'm now tired and my back and shoulders are a little sore. I met a new mama friend and her baby for a coffee then her husband joined us and we went for dinner. My first dinner out with my son! The new friend gave me a Moby and I wore him and BF'd in public for the 2nd time since he was born.

When I got home I pumped! I pumped a whole 5 ounces and I'm so proud! It's not for my son,it's for my new friends daughter and I hope to be able to keep a nice supply so I can keep pumping for her and feed my son.

We're not supposed to lift anything heavier then our baby for 6 weeks. We're also not supposed to exercise,except walking pretty much and have sex for 6 weeks.


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happyhats* 
Maybe our body/mind connection really is spot on.

I'm worried about how long I'll be away from my daughter, since cesearan mommas usually stay longer at the hospital. I've never been apart overnight at all from her. I'm lucky to have support close by and my hubby can take vacation and fmla if necessary to help me during recovery, but I'm still worried about my ability to care for two little ones on my own.

For the first part--I totally believe that this is true. With this baby, I set up everything to VBAC. Chose a provider who wanted me to go for it, the OB I got on call was totally hands off, etc. However, before my anatomy u/s at 26 weeks, I had a weird dream. In it, I "saw" Elias and just _knew_ certain things: that he'd be bigger than his brother (yep--by 2 lbs), that he'd be darker complected than his brother (yep), that he'd have hair unlike his brother (yep, lots too!), and that he'd be another c/s. In the dream I was totally at peace with this. Awake, it worried me a bit, but I chalked it up to pregnancy fears. That said, my body labored very gently for a long time. Only when they gave me pitocin to speed things up did Elias do badly. I think my body must have known that he couldn't tolerate close contractions--naturally, after 50hrs, they were no closer than 4-5min.

As long as your dd has someone she knows and feels comfy with, things should be fine. While I was in the hospital, there was no rooming in allowed. So at night, dh spent it with ds. My mom helped put him to sleep, and he was comfy with her. She also did a lot of the day child care, as did my sister. Basically, they pitch-hit whichever time slot was needed. This worked because my mom works part-time and my sister is a student.

That said, get help. LOTS and LOTS of help. This is major surgery. I feel like physically I recover(ing) a lot faster than with my first, but with 2 little ones it's easy to forget to eat or drink enough. And it took me a few days to figure this out. In the meantime I'd crash--literally, I felt weak and about to pass out. Again, totally normal post-major surgery. At the very least, make up stations so that you won't really need to move much the first week or two. I also found (find) Netflix on demand very, very helpful. I don't like how much tv my older son is watching, but it keeps him in one room and entertained while mommy is nursing/healing.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamitaM* 
I had a great day today! I'm now tired and my back and shoulders are a little sore. I met a new mama friend and her baby for a coffee then her husband joined us and we went for dinner. My first dinner out with my son! The new friend gave me a Moby and I wore him and BF'd in public for the 2nd time since he was born.

When I got home I pumped! I pumped a whole 5 ounces and I'm so proud! It's not for my son,it's for my new friends daughter and I hope to be able to keep a nice supply so I can keep pumping for her and feed my son.

We're not supposed to lift anything heavier then our baby for 6 weeks. We're also not supposed to exercise,except walking pretty much and have sex for 6 weeks.

Congrats on the Moby!!! Wraps are so nice at this age. Although I can't wait for this little one to get some neck strength so I can switch to my sling. I always feel like I have to re-wrap the sling each time I take him out.









I've already broken the lifting rule. Well, kind of. I am sitting on my couch and will pick up my 30lb toddler.







I don't know why, but my abs feel really strong--almost like I didn't have a c/s. Totally different than with my first one.

The not exercising thing is wise but I'm getting restless. Any other mamas feeling this way? I want to go out and DO stuff. I want to start exercising again. Maybe it's because the SPD that I had during pregnancy is gone, so now that it doesn't hurt to move I have all these months worth of physical restlessness to get out. Of course, I am NOT channeling that into cleaning.







No desire to do that, and well, if I did clean, it might give everyone the idea I'm fully healed and ready to be on my own. Which I am so not. I can feel that my body is still healing, and any pushing I do right now would not be wise.

Mentally, I find that after getting some sleep, I am doing better. I'm not crying about my c/s every day (more like every other day). I think my biggest 'issue' is the whole VBA2C. I did not get my VBAC, and I did labor 50hrs, but I still want the chance to labor again. I don't know why, but I do. It might be a control thing. I don't like choices being taken away from me, for no reason.

Ami


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## Friday13th (Jun 13, 2006)

I'm so, so glad to see this thread. I'm a little more than 3 months out from a failed HBAC and I've been staying away from the birth board ever since. I always blamed DS1's section on us making some bad decisions on the bad advice of our hospital midwives and I was SO SURE if I just made the right choices this time around I'd have the peaceful, beautiful waterbirth I'd always wanted. Well, DS2 and my body had other plans. We labored at home for over 24 hours, 10 of which were spent pushing involuntarily. In the end DH and I made the call to do the section without trying the pitocin the hospital offered (DS's heartrate dropped every time I pushed) and DS came out screaming and pink and nursed right away so by deciding when we did we avoided the most traumatic part of DS1's section which was a limp, grey, meconium covered baby and a 7 hour seperation before we could nurse. We were not bullied or pressured into it and I trust our midwife's guidance entirely. I think this was a case of something going on in utero that was making DS2 unable to descend, there is nothing noted in the surgical report but I'm positive there was SOMETHING that was going on.

I recovered physically really quickly and easily from both surgeries and I'm feeling okay with this birth as of right now. What makes me so sad is that DS1's could have been avoided and everyone I talks to seems to think there's something wrong with me because I've had two and I just want to scream and shake them and say "They were totally unrelated, it's NOT ME!"

And as much as I'm ok with with what happened, I think we're done having kids partly because of it. I was always up in the air about having a third but I can't imagine trying and failing again and I also can't imagine just scheduling a section so I think that's it.

Austin's Mom, I remember you from some other VBAC threads and I'm so sorry it didn't happen.

And I have that angry little troll inside me too, I'm glad to hear it's not just me.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Hi everyone,

Today it is exactly 2 years ago since my long labor day from hell...the 24-hour period during which my labor went from feeling "normal" to being a friggin' disaster. I still feel sad that my hope for an "empowering" I-can-do-it birthing experience died on this day. I got a very humbling experience instead...and 2 years out I can honestly say that there are great gifts to humility and I'm grateful for those gifts...but dang it sure would have been nice to start my parenting journey feeling a little less broken, depleted, and exhausted.

A close friend just gave birth yesterday. I was able to post a sincerely enthusiastic "congratulations" on her FB page. Good for me! I'm trying to cut that inner troll some slack, just let it do its thing inside my head a bit, then get bored and leave me alone.

I've been poring over the medical records I got from the hospital earlier this week. One thing I never knew before was that DD's Apgars were 4 & 7 and there was meconium in the amnio fluid. Somehow I've been under the impression that she came out "just fine" and I've chided myself for not pushing a little bit longer and trying a little harder for a vaginal birth. Now I actually feel like I made the right decision at the right time. I'm glad I didn't put her through more distress before making the decision to go with the c-sec.

We go through a lot to bring our babies into the world. For some of us, that journey is particularly difficult, but we do it, and then we heal ourselves in the best way that we can. I think there are parts of that journey that only another mama who has BTDT can really understand. I'm glad there's a place where we can share our stories and support each other. I'm proud of us!!!


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

I'm good today. Physically, I've totally broken the 10lb rule, I've picked up my son many times and he's almost 30lbs. I've also carried groceries, etc. I feel fine physically. The only thing is I have this weird nodule type thing above my incision on my right side, it's not on my left, and it's really tender, sore, about the size of a ping pong ball, and hurts when I move sometimes. i don't know what this is. After our last CS, I am terrified of having surgery again, and of course, that is where my mind is leading me. I know that if I had surgery I'd go under general of course, but the recovery, it's crap, and I think compared to a lot of other moms, I have very quick recoveries. But those first few days, week after are....well, y'all know. So I'm dealing with that, we go see the OB who did the cesarean next week I'll bring it up then.

Thinking about birth, I yes, did everything I could to plan, and be in control, etc. I know every mom has to loose control pretty much at some point in her birth, maybe mine has to be through surgery and trauma. I had the same thing with my older son. I was in control, on top of everything, until the 'decision to incision'. Maybe that's what birth is. Loosing control before you enter motherhood with this new child, to teach yourself that you can't be in control of them any more, they are their own person. I know, sounds hoakey, and cheesy and not what a lot of women want to hear, but for now, it gives me peace, and hope it does to at least one other person.


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## Friday13th (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AustinMom* 
Maybe that's what birth is. Loosing control before you enter motherhood with this new child, to teach yourself that you can't be in control of them any more, they are their own person. I know, sounds hoakey, and cheesy and not what a lot of women want to hear, but for now, it gives me peace, and hope it does to at least one other person.









This really resonates with me because I am a giant control freak and a planner. DH pointed out to me that it's ridiculous to think I can control every aspect of anything let alone something as huge as birth. It helps to think that this was something out of my control, not a mistake I made.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Friday13th* 
This really resonates with me because I am a giant control freak and a planner. DH pointed out to me that it's ridiculous to think I can control every aspect of anything let alone something as huge as birth. It helps to think that this was something out of my control, not a mistake I made.

I'm glad it helped.







I know that with everything I knew, our Midwives knew, and the OB knew, we did the best for the situation. It sucked. It was crappy, and not what we planned, but whose to say it was supposed to be much worse, but God has hand in it to make it the best way possible. Considering she was still at -2 at the time of surgery, it most likely would have been more hours and hours of labor (I know, it very well could have been shorter) and then plus being a first time pusher, potentially hours there, and it could have caused more issues directly after birth than the surgery did. Who knows? I have to submit to the fact that, even now, looking back, I'm not in control, and I can't 'solve' what happened to prevent it again for happening, and I never will. I can't change it, or fix it, or do anything to 'heal' any faster than what I'm doing now. i'll just submit to the process.


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## StarMama (Jun 25, 2002)

I've got a scheduled c-section due to placenta previa coming up, and thought I'd join in a little ahead of the game here. I'm petrified of a c-section! I've got two vaginal births under my belt and am so so upset I have to do this.


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## happyblessedmama (Sep 6, 2003)

Starmama - I never figured I'd have a c/s either, but I didn't get to know it ahead of time! I won't try to tell you to cheer up, but *mine* was not as horrific as I'd always imagined them to be (5 vaginal births, then a c/s during active labor)

I also have a question for those further out from the c/s than I am. My baby is 1 month and 5 days old. My incision is fully healed, but the skin still feels sensitive ABOVE the incision. Will this ever go away? When? What gives? I've chalked it up to bruising since they had to do a bit of manipulation to get my large transverse baby OUT... but shouldn't that be over with now?

I have a bit of numbness around the incision, know that's normal. But why am I hurting an inch or so above it? UGH. So uncomfortable sometimes...


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

[QUOTE/]I also have a question for those further out from the c/s than I am. My baby is 1 month and 5 days old. My incision is fully healed, but the skin still feels sensitive ABOVE the incision. Will this ever go away? When? What gives? I've chalked it up to bruising since they had to do a bit of manipulation to get my large transverse baby OUT... but shouldn't that be over with now? [/QUOTE]

You've only been healing for one month, which probably feels like forever, but really isn't that long considering what a major surgery c-section is. I continued to feel changes in my incision for at least 6 months. Also once I started getting into the dance studio again & using my body for things other than daily tasks, I noticed things about my scar that hadn't been apparant before, and it continued to change.

If the sensitivity is bothering you, bring it up with your doc.


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

Loss of sensation, itching, pulling, funkiness...

I'm a big advocate of scar massage for a whole host of reasons (physical as well as emotional/spiritual)... once the skin incision is healed, you can start doing scar massage along the incision. There are directions in books like the Tupler Technique, Ending Female Pain, Bounce Back Into Shape After the Baby, and in the Natural Family Living C/S Resource thread that is a sticky at the top of Birth & Beyond. (the author of Bounce Back had a c/s with twins so her advice has a strong BTDT quality)

Any surgery can result in funky sensations... I'm 5 years out from my c/s and I still have a small numb spot just above and to one side of the incision. Oddly, I have a very thin/neat scar on the side that is numb and a slightly lumpier/uneven scar on the side with full sensation. From informal polls at my ICAN group and here at MDC it seems that some numbness is par for the course.







I find it a pretty creepy sensation (or lack of sensation) and the scar massage actually helped me reintegrate my incision area... I nearly hyperventilated the first few times I did the scar massage (being totally freaked out by the sensation) but over time it helped me "get over" some of the strangeness and feel "at home" in my skin again.

And of course, it can help promote healing, reduce adhesions (which can complicate future VBACs or RC/S as well as conditions like PCOS, POP, or plain old menstrual cramping), and all that.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Thank you JTA Mom for starting this thread and a circle of support. I have one IRL, but the meeting times keep getting switched







and ... I see some familar faces from other C/S threads. Hiya









I've had 2 C/S with my last one being a failed VBAC attempt with a doula, and a birth plan, and taking all the classes (bradley) and being up on the literature.

I have found more peace with how my second c/s and how the events unfolded that I am slowly healing (emotionally) from my first one. So from another thread I find myself sitting in 2 corners per se. Being ok with my C/S and not being Ok with my C/S. Oh and the guilt from being ok with my second C/S.

I hope with the new year I am ready to begin to tackle emotionally the idea of #3 and what that means in terms of expectations, battles and outcomes.

Thank you!


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happyblessedmama* 
I also have a question for those further out from the c/s than I am. My baby is 1 month and 5 days old. My incision is fully healed, but the skin still feels sensitive ABOVE the incision. Will this ever go away? When? What gives? I've chalked it up to bruising since they had to do a bit of manipulation to get my large transverse baby OUT... but shouldn't that be over with now?


I'm not saying this to scare you, but the incision changes at it heals. For me, I had a loss of sensation in my lower abdomen for ~6 mos., and for a year I didn't have much bladder sensation. 20 months out now, everything is back to normal, or a version of normal. It will take time. Definitely talk to your provider if you think it is not normal.









I hope you recover quickly.

To all of the other mamas, thanks for sharing your stories. It is good to know that I'm not alone under this ocean of disappointment.


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Christine, the scar area/healing stuff is an odd thing. Some areas become hypersensitive, some areas go numb, and sometimes they switch!









Seriously though, the scar area is dynamic. I don't know if you are planning more babies, but if so, know that during the next pregnancy, having pain, aching and pulling sensations in your scar area is also totally normal. Creepy and kinda scary at times, but totally normal.

For those doing scar massage, how soon after do you do this? I've heard from anywhere from skin healing to 6+ weeks pp. Skin wise, I heal really fast. So I'm not sure if I should go with that?

Also, when can I take baths?

Gah, should have asked for a written rules.

Mentally, I'm doing okay. I seem to be having night time anxiety attacks tho. They are scary. I get a sinking feeling like something horrible is going to happen.







Not sure if this is just more PTSD or what.

Ami


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
For those doing scar massage, how soon after do you do this? I've heard from anywhere from skin healing to 6+ weeks pp. Skin wise, I heal really fast. So I'm not sure if I should go with that?

Also, when can I take baths?

Gah, should have asked for a written rules.

Mentally, I'm doing okay. I seem to be having night time anxiety attacks tho. They are scary. I get a sinking feeling like something horrible is going to happen.







Not sure if this is just more PTSD or what.

I didn't do scar massage, looking back maybe I should have now







.
As for some of the other items I would call your Dr. office and get them to clarify some of the post-partum care. Again its major surgery - why do they let folks go without after care instructions.







Any nurse should be able to go through the list of them, as I remember getting a sheet/instructions which included looking out for redness/infection and such around the incision site.








for the anxiety, I remember feeling horrible more for "failing" after my 2nd but I think that was part of the mourning process for me to reconcile the loss of my expectation but not anxiety inducing.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

I am now at the point where I'm tired of hurting. I'm tired of the evil troll. I'm tired of feeling like I'm broken and feeling broken emotionally. I'm tired of looking back with sorrow. I'm really ready to move on and not hurt. How do I do that? How I do I go from here to healed? I know 'it's a process' like everyone says, but is sitting around waiting to 'get over it' the only option? I know it sounds impatient, but that's where I'm at.

I know there are a lot of those out there who think that we should just get over it and move on, but do they know how hard that is to figure out how to do, let alone do?


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

Quote:

Again its major surgery - why do they let folks go without after care instructions
That's actually why post-c/s scar massage is such a "soap box" issue for me. I know plenty of people who have had surgery (heart, knees, back, arm, hip, appendix, hysterectomy, breast, etc) and ALL of them were given some sort of idea about how to care for themselves, and most of those care packets included some sort of scar massage technique. They may not have been "called" scar massage, but there were guidelines for moving the tissue and muscle and maintaining range of motion while speeding healing.

But I've only met one person who was given scar massage instructions by her OB following her c/s. Just one! It's a well know technique, it's used in post-op care all over the place, there is no reason why women undergoing major surgery, on organs that can be so radically affected by adhesions, should NOT be given this basic self care information.

Ok, ok, stepping off the soap box. But it does really get to me that such a simple (free, DIY) care practice isn't routinely offered to women undergoing one of the most common major surgeries.

Timing... you can start out with steri strips as soon as the sutures/staples are removed. The hospital where I had my c/s would place steri strips automatically and told me to remove them at about a week pp. I think the "6 week" guideline is probably related to the 6 week pp visit... the dr can check the incision for infection and healing and green light massage. But if the area around the incision is healing well (no swelling or redness, no intense pain or "new" pains or extremely "localized" pain points) then you probably don't need to wait till 6 weeks. Just start slowly and gently and stop if it doesn't feel right.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happyblessedmama* 
I also have a question for those further out from the c/s than I am. My baby is 1 month and 5 days old. My incision is fully healed, but the skin still feels sensitive ABOVE the incision. Will this ever go away? When? What gives? I've chalked it up to bruising since they had to do a bit of manipulation to get my large transverse baby OUT... but shouldn't that be over with now?

Are you talking about the sensitivity that feels a little like a bad sunburn? If so, it's not bruising - it's caused by nerve damage. I only had it with two of my sections, and it was only bad with one of them. (That same section left me with almost no bladder sensation - and I'm five years out, so I'm guessing that's probably permanent - and large numb patches throughout my lower left abdomen and pelvis.) I can't remember exactly how long it took to go away, but I think it was a few months (3 or 4 or something like that). It's very unlikely to be permanent.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

So, a close friend had a baby last week, and I was feeling all proud of myself because I was really 98% completely happy for her and only 2% letting my inner troll unleash the envy machine.

Turns out that because she didn't mention how the baby was born in her FB post, I assumed she had a vaginal birth. Wrong. I got an e-mail from her, and she had an emergency c-section after laboring naturally for 20 hours.

And that just did a number on my inner troll.

This is a woman that I care about and admire, who is a fantastic dancer and athlete, very smart, a total tough cookie. She took fabulous care of herself during her pregnancy, and I know that especially during the last few weeks she had quit work, was resting a lot, and was really ready to give birth. And it was her 2nd baby, so she had some experience under her belt.

And I truly feel so very proud of her. I haven't had a chance to talk to her yet to see how she feels about the birth, but I'm not making any assumptions.

This gives me hope that if I can feel that proud for a friend that I love and respect, I might someday be able to do the same for myself.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Hey mamas, I just had my little guy on the 12th, 3rd c/s. My last birth was a great hospital vba2c, so it's pretty disappointing. This time I elected to do an induction after my edd due to bp issues. Everything seemed to be going as it should, but after 24 hours of labor he would not budge and come down. He actually moved *up* from -1 to -2 station, even though my pit was almost maxed and my ctx had been 2.5 minutes apart for 4 hours (and the 4 hours before they had been about 3-4). Since he wouldn't come down my cervix wouldn't budge past 4cm (and they broke my water, so there wasn't much else we could do, had been bouncing on the birth ball and doing what I could to encourage him to descend). Anyway, with the last VE showing no change and him moving up, I just felt like there was a reason he wasn't coming down. He was also having decels in his heart rate *after* ctx, so I was concerned he was having a cord issue. And as it turns out, he had a true knot (pretty rare apparently, the anestiseologist was totally amazed and kept trying to get my husband to look at it!) I know some babies are born with true knots and have no issues, but I also know other babies are still born or have serious complications because of knots (and I don't think his cord was terribly long, so it could have been very bad for him) so I feel like he was up high for that reason. Still sucks, though.







Apparently I have a lot of bad scarring from my first 2 c/s and an ectopic surgery. We'd really like one more some day but my OB suggested I might want to consider not having anymore. Blah.

I'm sure I'll have more to say later, but right now I just sent my little guy to sleep at the nursery so I can get some rest.


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

I have my third, and second planned, cesarean scheduled in a week and a half. I'm really happy that I had such great medical care. My first birth was a really bad combination of all sorts of things (I was sick and really dehydrated, started spotting heavily on my due date, they induced, then it turned out I have a genetic heart condition and every time I contracted my heart stopped, they pulled that baby out of there as fast as they possibly could get her! I barely remember any of it.) and I was REALLY upset to have a C. But it was definitely for the best, and by the time DS's section happened I was okay with it. This time, I'm downright looking forward to it. 4 days in the hospital sounds downright luxurious!

I think a lot depends on your hospital. I'm lucky that I have a really great one that (I've heard) makes all their money on maternity, so it's like the 5 star resort of maternity wards... wood floors, paintings on the walls, huge private rooms, full page menus that you can choose everything you want, 24 hour room service, a fully stocked kitchen, every nurse a licensed LC, dedicated LCs who come visit a few times a day, really nice nursery. And it's just my local hospital! The rest of the place is kinda grotty, to be honest. I hate their ER.

I want to second what a few people said about how you really have to remember that it's major surgery! And abdominal surgery no less. I think I really pushed myself too hard after DD's birth, trying to prove that I was just as good as anyone who birthed vaginally. I ended up popping a few stitches picking up heavy things, and really just ran myself ragged. With DS I really tried to take it easy and let other people pick up the slack in the initial period. I found this recovery to be much easier.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *palmgal* 
This time I am planning on pre-pumping colostrum prior to delivery. I would of course, rather nurse him right away. Did any c-section mamas get to nurse immediately (i.e. while they were still completing the operation), and was it difficult positioning the baby?

I am not an expert on this, but I think that might be very hard. You do have to be on your back while they sew you up, and I imagine that any pressure put on your chest (even a little 7lb-ish baby) would push down on your organs while they're trying to to get everything back inside of you.

While I was being sewn up, after they did the Apgar and whatever else it is they do in there, they swaddled the baby and gave her/him to DH and he held the baby right next to my head. So I didn't feel like we were separated, even though there wasn't immediate skin to skin. I think Babies and I did rub cheeks









My hospital is extremely pro-BFing (I've heard lots of complaints about it from women who couldn't or didn't want to BF), and they make it a priority to get the baby nursing ASAP. For both of my Cs, they sewed me up while DH held the baby, wheeled me to the recovery room (baby in bassinet... hospital policy that baby is in bassinet when moving from room to room... I guess I can't really fault that because I am still woozy at this point and BOY would I feel bad if I dropped the baby from my bed!), and immediately started working on getting the baby to latch. In my medicated state, I can't tell you how long all this took but I've talked to DH about it and he thinks it was within about 1/2 an hour.

I really don't know for sure, but I really like and trust my hospital and I do feel like if they thought it was a good idea to get the baby nursing even earlier, they would.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
Seriously though, the scar area is dynamic. I don't know if you are planning more babies, but if so, know that during the next pregnancy, having pain, aching and pulling sensations in your scar area is also totally normal. Creepy and kinda scary at times, but totally normal.

Also, it ITCHES as the skin stretches for future pregnancies! DH keeps making fun of me because I'm wandering around scratching myself. 'Everything okay down there? Feeling not so fresh?' "IT'S MY SCAR, I'M SCRATCHING MY SCAR. Leave me alone!" LOL.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *palmgal* 
I do have some questions for those who have recently gone through it. My son had low blood sugar after birth (not shocking since my blood sugar went sky-high during surgery and they really lagged providing me insulin). The had to supplement him with formula at first, but they did not even offer him to me to nurse (presumably because his sugar was quite low). This time I am planning on pre-pumping colostrum prior to delivery. I would of course, rather nurse him right away. Did any c-section mamas get to nurse immediately (i.e. while they were still completing the operation), and was it difficult positioning the baby?

With dd2, my last baby, I was able to do this. I had requested it in advance, and the OB told me it wasn't possible, as there isn't room between the mom's head and the sterile drape, especially with the monitors and stuff. However, once dd2 was taken out, she started to cry. The L&D nurse (who had been there for my IV, the stuff they make you drink, and then accompanied me to OR) said, "she sounds hungry - would you like to try feeding her?". I obviously said, "yes". So, the L&D nurse and dh ended up holding dd2 above my head, so that the top of her head was pointed towards my toes, and most of her body was being held by their four hands...and that's where she nursed for the first time. It was awesome. I don't think I could have positioned the baby in front of me at all, though - the area is just too cluttered up.

Talk to your OB and the anesthesiologist ahead of time, and see what they say.

ETA: My experience with ds2 was much like what lach described here:

Quote:

For both of my Cs, they sewed me up while DH held the baby, wheeled me to the recovery room (baby in bassinet... hospital policy that baby is in bassinet when moving from room to room... I guess I can't really fault that because I am still woozy at this point and BOY would I feel bad if I dropped the baby from my bed!), and immediately started working on getting the baby to latch.
This is standard practice at our hospital. I didn't get it with dd1, because there wasn't an L&D room available for me to go back to after surgery (they use the L&D units for post-c/s recovery rooms). I had to go to the hospital's main post-op recovery room, and spend an hour there. Obviously, a room full of people coming out of anesthesia (mostly general) isn't the best place to bring a newborn and try to establish breastfeeding, so dd1 and I had to wait.


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

I had a meeting with a trauma therapist a few days ago, more of a 'getting to know you' kind of meeting. I then went to ICAN.

BIG, FAT mistake. I was fine after I left the therapist. NOT fine after ICAN. So not okay.

I was incredibly anxious afterwards. And it's only built. Yesterday night I was having issues breathing, that's how intense the panic was. I couldn't figure out why I was so afraid, especially so afraid to be alone.

And yesterday night, in the midst of the panic attack, I figured it out.

I am afraid of dying. In both of my c/s, I reacted to the anesthesia in a way that felt like I was dying. Struggled to breathe, felt weaker and weaker. It was like all my energy was being drawn inwards and downwards. And the last time, with the botched epidural, the anesthesiologist wouldn't listen to me and turn it off. No one was there to help me, since they sent hubby out of the room.

I am afraid of being in a position where I am dying, and can't get help. And being alone with my toddler and newborn. Scratch that. Terrified of it. Deeply, deeply terrified of it.

I've told my husband, and he's great. But the moments are still there. I managed to calm myself down some yesterday night and actually got some good sleep. However, now that I'm awake, it's back, though a low level.

I feel really nauseated, weak, tired. And I need to get this out. How do I get this out? I don't want to feel like this anymore. I want to run away from it, take something that blocks this feeling. Help, please.

Ami


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AustinMom* 
I am now at the point where I'm tired of hurting. I'm tired of the evil troll. I'm tired of feeling like I'm broken and feeling broken emotionally. I'm tired of looking back with sorrow. I'm really ready to move on and not hurt. How do I do that? How I do I go from here to healed? I know 'it's a process' like everyone says, but is sitting around waiting to 'get over it' the only option? I know it sounds impatient, but that's where I'm at.

I know there are a lot of those out there who think that we should just get over it and move on, but do they know how hard that is to figure out how to do, let alone do?









s I saw your post earlier and I have been trying to work on a response because I have been where you are and it feels like being trapped between a rock and a hard place to "get over it".

So this is my opinion, but I don't think we get over trauma or the loss of expectation. We cope, we make peace and we live with it, but "getting over it" for me makes what I've experienced as trivial. I can get over missing a concert or losing something like my wallet, but not this.

For me - its been more similar to the grieving process and its steps (denial/isolation, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance). Of course the steps didn't happen in that order or right away after my 1st c/s. But slowly I was angry that I didn't speak up more, I was sad and scared I would continue to make the same mistakes with any future pregnancies, I blamed my partner for his lack of support, I blamed it on the fact we crammed in a quick marriage in L&D and etc... acceptance and peace are in the distance for me with my 1st c/s, and I am close to making peace with my 2nd one. I know I will be ok with the process once I can actually write out the birth story, and finish my belly cast, those are my milestones of healing.

As for not looking back with sorrow or hurt... you have good days and you will have crappy days. The good days will outnumber the bad days and before you know it, the guilty thoughts only pop up every once in awhile. On how to move forward... everyone finds their path, but keep talking on here, and I believe the women here will keep listening and have open arms for support. And that is why I believe we are not meant to get over it, but to make peace with it as it will be a part of us as mothers forever.


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

CherryBomb- congrats on your new little one!







I'm sorry the birth didn't go as planned, but it does seem like there was a reason for this one, and I'm so glad you've got your little one in your arms safe and sound.

breastfeeding "on the table"- this is actually one of the "family centered cesearean" points and it's certainly do-able, though it can take advanced planning. The sterile drape can be set a bit "lower" on the chest so that there is room for nursing without restricting the surgical space, but that needs to be done before the surgery starts. A planning session with your care provider and the anesthesiology team is important to ensure that. And having a warm blanket available to begin skin-to-skin with mom (nekkid babe, nekkid mama, warm blankets over all) is a good thing too. There is a brand new study that shows that c/s babes placed skin-to-skin with mom and topped with a blanket are on par with babes who have been wrapped and placed in an isolette in terms of maintaining body temps. And the skin-to-skin babes show some specific benefits (less crying, more interactive vocalization with parents, etc).

JTA- I'm so sorry. Big huge hugs. I remember having lots of "death" type thoughts after dd1's birth... I was diagnosed with PPD and PTSD at about 6 months pp. Have you tried things like tapping? And do you respond to rescue remedy? I use some homeopathic remedies for my ongoing panic attacks... Kali phosphoricum and Aconite are my go-to remedies. And I carry a small bottle of Rosemary essential oil because I find that breathing in the scent helps me focus on the hear/now and get through the panic attack breathlessness. It's not a "formal" aromatherapy thing, just a scent that seems to help me, so if you have a favorite comforting scent or one that always perks you up maybe give that a try? Or check an aromatherapy chart for ideas?

I wish there was a quick and easy cure, but hang in there.


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## happyblessedmama (Sep 6, 2003)

Lisa/Storm Bride - YES, the weird bad sunburn feeling! I never would've thought to describe it that way but the minute I read that I thought YES. Glad to know it's unlikely to be permanent...


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happyblessedmama* 
Lisa/Storm Bride - YES, the weird bad sunburn feeling! I never would've thought to describe it that way but the minute I read that I thought YES. Glad to know it's unlikely to be permanent...

I've known quite a few women (mostly through ICAN) who have had this, and it hasn't been permanent for any of them.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
I am afraid of dying. In both of my c/s, I reacted to the anesthesia in a way that felt like I was dying. Struggled to breathe, felt weaker and weaker. It was like all my energy was being drawn inwards and downwards. And the last time, with the botched epidural, the anesthesiologist wouldn't listen to me and turn it off. No one was there to help me, since they sent hubby out of the room.


I cannot believe he didn't listen to you.







In my experiences the anesthesiologist was the most sympathetic and the most compassionate of everyone in the room. That is horrible they didn't listen to you.









I had the anesthiology not take on the first and the surgeon gave me a local. It always surprises me to learn how very few women get that. I don't think I have ever seen someone else say they received a local and a LOT of people say the anesthiology failed.

Could you still a complaint?


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wombatclay* 
CherryBomb- congrats on your new little one!







I'm sorry the birth didn't go as planned, but it does seem like there was a reason for this one, and I'm so glad you've got your little one in your arms safe and sound.


Thanks! I second guess myself now of course, but I'm sure if I had continued with bedrest for another week or two and wound up with another c/s I'd be kicking myself and thinking "why didn't I just do the induction!" Sigh. Too bad I don't have a crystal ball. Finn is my rainbow baby too (technically my second, but we lost our first rainbow baby) so I've been a total paranoid mess the whole pregnancy, just waiting for something to go wrong. So when my bp went up out of nowhere it seemed the start of something really bad! But who knows. I had some bad baby blues yesterday but I seem a lot better today. Got my staples out and I'll be heading home in a couple hours!

IDK what the future holds re: more kiddos. Dh and I are observant Catholics so birth control is totally out of the question (I use Creighton). I talked to the OB today and while she didn't say "don't have more kids" she made it clear that another c/s would have serious risks for me. My lower uterine segment is paper thin and she said that while she didn't think that increases my UR risk, the on call ob that did the c/s said he had a difficult time suturing my uterus because it was so thin it was basically falling apart when he would try to put in the stitches. And I have lots of bad internal scarring so getting down there to my uterus was difficult and will probably be worse next time. I didn't ask about vbacing with her if I do have anymore, but I think it might be a possibility with her. Our family feels complete for now, but since sterilization and such is completely out of the question, I have to consider the possibility (I'll be a good girl about my NFP, though!)

Oh, and apparently my scar is super low and bizarre. He just went over the old scars, but for some reason the first c/s the doctor did it really low and in a weird curly q shape that goes out to my left hip/leg! Every new nurse I got said they've never seen such a low scar.

Hugs all around.


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AustinMom* 
I am now at the point where I'm tired of hurting. I'm tired of the evil troll. I'm tired of feeling like I'm broken and feeling broken emotionally. I'm tired of looking back with sorrow. I'm really ready to move on and not hurt. How do I do that? How I do I go from here to healed? I know 'it's a process' like everyone says, but is sitting around waiting to 'get over it' the only option? I know it sounds impatient, but that's where I'm at.

I know there are a lot of those out there who think that we should just get over it and move on, but do they know how hard that is to figure out how to do, let alone do?

*AustinMom*,









I think its different for everyone. For me, a lot of my healing has come from figuring out exactly what I felt about DD's birth. The biggest feeling is that I failed HER. My only job was to keep her healthy, bring her in to the world naturally, and keep her safe. And I failed her. She was so dehydrated...sick...3 wk NICU stay. My body failed her, and no amount of anyone telling me that it didn't is going to change the way I feel about it.

It DOES make me feel better to hear my husband tell me how hard I tried. To see my midwife tear up with sadness for me, and remind me that I made the best decisions I could. It helps me to read birth stories good and bad, and see that sometimes you can do everything "right" and still have an awful birth. My daughter is almost two, and I've just stopped having flashbacks to the section. We got through it together, and I've ALWAYS done everything I can to keep her from fear/pain, and that's the best i can do.

So I tell myself, "It's okay to be disappointed. Maybe you'll VBAC someday, maybe not. All you can do is your best." And that's all I've got....

I wish there were an easy way for us all to find peace.


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CherryBomb* 
Oh, and apparently my scar is super low and bizarre. He just went over the old scars, but for some reason the first c/s the doctor did it really low and in a weird curly q shape that goes out to my left hip/leg! Every new nurse I got said they've never seen such a low scar.

That is really interesting. The OB that did mine went over an old scar (back before they did laproscopic surgery for ruptured cysts) and it is very low too. My midwife told me she would be surprised if he could use that scar, and that I would probably end up with "railroad tracks" if it were necessary... I wonder what that would mean for a future VBAC?

[/thread derailment...]


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## StarMama (Jun 25, 2002)

I thought this would be a great spot to ask mamas if you were going in to have a c-section what would you really want to bring with you? I've got basics like pjs and my own blanket and pillow and toiletries, but anything that specifically would have made the hospital stay a little nicer after surgery with a newborn?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StarMama* 
I thought this would be a great spot to ask mamas if you were going in to have a c-section what would you really want to bring with you? I've got basics like pjs and my own blanket and pillow and toiletries, but anything that specifically would have made the hospital stay a little nicer after surgery with a newborn?

I've had three scheduled sections, and can't really think of anything else. I like to take a good book and my Discman (or iPod, I guess). I can't always hold the baby, and sometimes have to put the baby in the bassinet...and the hospital is _*boring*_.

This one's possibly a little controversial, because you're supposed to wait until you pass gas (in some places - some of them go by being able to hear intestinal/bowel sounds) before you eat. In my case, that was once almost two weeks (at least that I noticed), so I obviously didn't wait that long! But, I find the hospital food very bland, and I hate being stuck eating it. I also drink a ton of water post-op, but constipation can still be a - painful - problem. So, I always get dh to load me up with juicy fruit...grapes, plums, peaches, etc. I also like a couple bananas and some yogurt. It makes me feel more hydrated, less constipated, and gives me a taste treat.

And, honestly - that's about it for me. The underwear thing goes two ways. Many people like "granny panties" post-op, so that their underwear isn't sitting on the scar. I prefer underwear along the incision line - there's a dressing there, anyway, and I _hate_ having the bottom of my belly sitting along the incision.


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## lach (Apr 17, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StarMama* 
I thought this would be a great spot to ask mamas if you were going in to have a c-section what would you really want to bring with you? I've got basics like pjs and my own blanket and pillow and toiletries, but anything that specifically would have made the hospital stay a little nicer after surgery with a newborn?

Prunes







Seriously. I had them packed last time, and I'm packing them again this time.

4 days in the hospital is a while, so I made sure to bring some craft projects, a book, and definitely my laptop.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StarMama* 
I thought this would be a great spot to ask mamas if you were going in to have a c-section what would you really want to bring with you? I've got basics like pjs and my own blanket and pillow and toiletries, but anything that specifically would have made the hospital stay a little nicer after surgery with a newborn?

I had a 7 day stay due to baby being in the NICU and I can say that I never had the pleasure of being bored. I feel that moms who do are lucky.









I also was told (and surprised to hear) that you don't have to wait till you pass gas to eat. In fact as soon as I got in the recovery room the nurse asked if me and hubby wanted a sandwich. Very nice to have real food and no liquid diet. But, if your hospital is not willing to do that, I'd say yes, smuggle snacks, and smuggle snacks that will make you pass gas sooner (without pain or bloating) and poop. No BRAT diet, bananas, rice, apples, and toast that is.

On the discussions earlier about BFing in the OR, have a plan to do this, and since the top of the mom is considered 'anesthesiologist space', you would have to clear it with them not the OB. Once the cord is cut, the OB has no say in what goes on with the baby. Also, you obviously want to state that this would be in the absence of medical need. But if baby comes out pink and vigorous then there is no need for suctioning, only if there is meconium then to do suctioning with the aspirator. I'm pretty sure that's the AAP protocol.

I'd say bring lots of pillows, as you can't have too many, especially for nursing, and just in case you have a longer than expected stay, bring some kind of mat/foam to put on top of your bed, as I can't tell you how painful it was come night 4-7 to sleep on that awful hospital bed. More cushioning would have been great.

Also, bring your own heating pad as since they pump your abdomen full of air for the surgery and that air can move around to be shoulder pain from H#$%, it'd be nice to have a nice warm pad to help with that. The hospital's was crap for us.

Thanks all for the replies to my last post. I like to think, as bad as this sounds that if there was a way to measure the intents of a mother, those who do what they can to bring their children into the world peacefully get extra points, and though I was not able to do that as an average mainstream mom gets lucky enough to, I still have the intent and I still have the rest of my kids' lives to be a high scoring mom. you know what I'm trying to say?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

NM...serves no purpose.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
The underwear thing goes two ways. Many people like "granny panties" post-op, so that their underwear isn't sitting on the scar. I prefer underwear along the incision line - there's a dressing there, anyway, and I _hate_ having the bottom of my belly sitting along the incision.

I like the granny panties, but I don't like my stomach laying along my incision, either. I've been rolling up a clean wash cloth and putting it over my my incision, keeps my belly off it (I have a rather large pannus).

Re: when you can eat, so funny even in the same practice it's different. The on call ob did my surgery and said no eating until I passed gas. But my OB came in in the morning and said she's not as strict and that as long as they can hear bowel sounds and I could eat some jello without getting nauseous, I could eat. I also lucked out because our hospital actually has pretty good food! And you can order whenever you want off a menu, so you don't have to wait until a certain time and choose from one or two things.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StarMama* 
I thought this would be a great spot to ask mamas if you were going in to have a c-section what would you really want to bring with you? I've got basics like pjs and my own blanket and pillow and toiletries, but anything that specifically would have made the hospital stay a little nicer after surgery with a newborn?

For my last section - I had a just in case mentality and made sure to pack the following:

pjs
Sweat Suit (my favorite sets of sweat/yoga pants & zip up hoodies)
several nursing tanks
wool socks - incase my feet got cold
books
movies - check to see if the room has dvd or vcr
my favorite soaps - citrus, jasmine etc. as these made me feel so much better and less "hospital" like post-section day1 especially as you're trying to scrub off the betadine and etc. Lemon and such scents lift my spirits

As for underwear - I love sporting the mesh ones they give you post section. Less laundry for me. But I agree with StormBride - I don't like my belly hitting my incision so I wore my belly band on top of my sweat pants/yoga pants through my entire stay, to the point one of the MAs came in to take my vitals







while we had friends visiting. She asked my friend who was the patient (as I was in my sweats) and she was flustered, and muttered out ... well usually the mothers are wearing hospital gowns. Those things are awful, to the point I didn't wear one until they had to wheel me into surgery and then post-op I made my DH help me change back into my tank. I said they could cut it off if necessary but I wasn't wearing one of those gowns.


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## Friday13th (Jun 13, 2006)

I was stunned by the underwear issue after my first section, it never occurred to me that a) I'd end up have a csection and b) that EVERY single pair of underwear and pants I owned would hit exactly at the incision site. I ended up wearing those mesh undies they give you and LOVING them. They're so freakin hideous but man they're comfortable.
I second bringing your own bath products and clothes and using them as soon as you can, it'll make you feel more human. Other than than that I used my laptop a lot and bring snacks because hospital food is Awful.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

My steri strips are off and my incision is healing quite well. I have a little scab on one side,but it should dry up and fall off soon. Right? It itches. The whole belly under my my belly button itches and feels like sunburn. I don't scratch though since it then hurts in that weird sunburn feeling way. I'm to scared to touch it right now. In the shower I don't wash that area at all,just let the water flow over it and don't use soap though I know I can. It's also hard to see the incision with out pushing the rest of my belly down and away from it. Is that normal?

*StarMama* I wish that I'd brought more pillows! Different maxi pads as well. I only brought some HUGE heavy duty Always pads with me since I expected a vaginal delivery. I wish I'd brought a few different types of pads,like for different flows,thinner ones. The big ones started to irritate me after a couple of days and I really didn't have much bleeding at all. My hospital didn't provide pads for us. Bring a pen! Bring extra pens! I didn't bring one and really needed one for so many things.

I have some questions for the mamas who had both a vaginal and a c-section birth. Did you feel differently about the birth or the child after each one? Did you feel you did more for the vaginal birth then the c-section birth? Did you feel that with the c-section you didn't really birth your baby?

For me since this is my first baby I can't compare but I can't help but feel I missed something by not having a vaginal birth. I didn't get to feel that sensation as he came out of me and I didn't see him come out of me either. In fact I had no idea they had even started the c-section when they were doing it. I felt nothing and the doctors were speaking French the whole time so I didn't know what they were doing behind that little curtain. I don't know if I can say that I gave birth to my son.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I continued to wear my undies right on the incision once I stopped wearing the mesh ones (I don't take my own undies to the hospital, to minimize having to deal with my own laundry). But, I found the dressing was enough padding. However, I've also had really severe numbness on the incision line every time, which probably makes it easier to tolerate the underwear band.

It's bizarre how many little things there are to consider, really. Bring slippers...

I've never had a belly band, but they sound like they'd be worth considering. Most of the moms I know who have tried them post-section have loved them.

_ktg_: I've never worn my sweats in the hospital, but I do get out of their gowns and into my own nightgown and robe asap. I hate wearing hospital gowns. I've just always found getting in and out of pants really, really hard in the early days - undies are bad enough. If it weren't for the bleeding, I wouldn't wear anything under my nightgown until about day three or four.

ETA: I've never even thought of bringing extra pillows, but that would be nice. My nurse gave me some extras last time, so I ended up with about six...used some to keep dd2 from being mashed against the railings on the hospital bed, a couple for my legs, etc. It's _so_ hard to get comfortable after a section, and pillows do help. I like the firm hospital ones around the baby (less likely that she'll get her face pressed into them), but a couple softer ones for me would have been nice. The hospital ones tend to slide around on each other a lot, too.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

I don't know much about the bands or belly binding. Would having one be helpful now even though I'm a month out? What's the point of them? I probably could have used one on the way home from the hospital since my belly was so jiggly and it did not feel to good in the car with my my insides moving all about.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
_ktg_: I've never worn my sweats in the hospital, but I do get out of their gowns and into my own nightgown and robe asap. I hate wearing hospital gowns. I've just always found getting in and out of pants really, really hard in the early days - undies are bad enough. If it weren't for the bleeding, I wouldn't wear anything under my nightgown until about day three or four.

I totally agree - having your own clothes makes the world of difference. Those gowns are just the pits! Especially when you have to do the bathroom shuffle, trying to make sure your feet are moving, but your tookus isn't hanging all out there for the world to see. OT- but the elimination of the hosptial gown might be a humanizing element for me.









Pants are not the easiest to get on, and I am not much of a nightgown kind of girl... but that's where the timing of the pain meds comes in extra handy


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

I swear I'm the only person comfortable in hospital gowns!









Quote:

I have some questions for the mamas who had both a vaginal and a c-section birth. Did you feel differently about the birth or the child after each one? Did you feel you did more for the vaginal birth then the c-section birth? Did you feel that with the c-section you didn't really birth your baby?
My first two were c/s, then a vba2c, now another c/s. I definitely don't feel any different about the babies. The birth part is really disappointing, though. I think it's worse now that I've actually had a vaginal birth, knowing how much easier it is to recover from and everything. I think there are so many factors that play into it, especially with regards to how necessary you feel your c/s was. I'm not sure that this c/s was really necessary (I think if I had my OB and not the on call I probably would have had a long and tiring vaginal birth, but a vaginal birth non the less). OTOH, he had a true knot and refused to move down, and even at -2 station he was getting post contractino decels, so maybe the cord would have been an issue for him and he knew what he was doing. IDK. Mostly I hate that I had this c/s because I really wanted a large family and idk if that's going to be possible now.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *justKate* 
That is really interesting. The OB that did mine went over an old scar (back before they did laproscopic surgery for ruptured cysts) and it is very low too. My midwife told me she would be surprised if he could use that scar, and that I would probably end up with "railroad tracks" if it were necessary... I wonder what that would mean for a future VBAC?

[/thread derailment...]

Interesting! I'll have to ask my OB at my pp visit if she has any idea why my original scar was so low. FWIW I don't think your external scar will have any impact on vbac. My 3rd birth was a vba2c and it was never an issue.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Oh, and I was too fat this time for the mesh panties







So I'd say if you're plus sized, make sure to bring your own post partum panties in case the mesh ones aren't large enough!


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## lsmama (May 27, 2009)

I, too, am jumping on here early. I had my first baby via unmedicated vaginal birth but she had a pretty bad shoulder dystocia. I am now 20 weeks with #2, and midwife has expressed that C-section may be advisable if this baby is the same size or bigger than my first. She/we'll make the determination at 38 weeks. I am terrified of the surgery and saddened by the possibility that I won't be able to birth my baby the way I want to. But I am equally terrified of making a foolhardy decision that could jeopardize my baby's health. So I'm trying to stay open to all possibilities and learn all that I can. I am thankful for this thread and am sending healing vibes to all of you currently recovering, both physically and emotionally.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

I was also really scared,but I got through it with the help of my doula. She was amazing. She asked me what I was most scared of and I told her it was not being able to recover fast enough and take care of my son alone. If you know what your most scared of before going in then maybe you can prepare yourself better. You may also be able to ask for something to relax you right before the section. You can also make ac-section birth plan if you know you'll be getting one. Some doctors will try and make it a more AP sorta of birth rather then all medical and impersonal you know. I saw a birth plan for a c-section on MDC actually. I wish I could remember when and where though.


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

Ismama- my first was a c/s, my second child was a VBAC with shoulder dystocia (and a 4th degree tear for me), and my third was a VBAc with just a hint of sticky shoulders. I'd be happy to PM you the resoruces I have on birth after SD. Like VBAc itself it's a complicated picture, but I'm a big fan of data and knowing the numbers when balancing risks. I can say that the fear of a repeat SD and 4th degree tear played a big role in how I went about planning my second VBAC... I switched from a homebirth to a hospital birth, I quized my doula and DH for months about SD scenarios, I talked everyone's ears off about sidelying birth positions, I wrote a birth plan that basically said "I want another VBAC but if things start slowing down we are moving to a rc/s rather than risk another SD/tear". It was on my mind a lot. In the end, ds's birth was fast and furious, there was only a little sticky shoulders, I had a small 2nd degree tear along the previous scar, and we were all fine. But I was prepared for a rc/s. Anyway, if anyone wants my research list PM me and I'll dig it out.

Oh, my c/s baby was 9lbs5oz. My VBAC babe with shoulder dystocia was 9lbs even. My "VBAC after SD" baby was 9lbs8oz. So at least in my case, it wasn't size that made the difference. Positioning made a lot of difference and I think having had a vaginal birth (even with the SD) helped too.

*Birth plans and recovery*- check the Birth & Beyond sticky. One of the threads saved there is the Natural Family Living Cesarean Resource thread. Lots of books, websites, articles, birth plans, and recovery ideas from MDC moms.

What to bring- I found pregnancy skirts (my binsi birth skirt and a super soft t-shirt style cotton skirt from Target) to be super comfy. You can lift the back while sitting (no leaks!), they can be worn over or under the incision/belly, they cover the bum while standing/walking, and they look cute (or whatever your personal style might be







). I also find them easier to get on/off since I can pull them over my head...no bending/twisting required.

Other than my skirts, I pack soft new socks and then those socks get left at the hospy. It's a bit wasteful I know, but I love the feel of brand new socks and I"d rather not bring hospy floor ick home with me so.... a 6 pack of white cotton socks isn't a huge cost.

I also bring a travel sized french press and some good coffee, good tea. Most hospy wards can bring you hot water but their coffee/tea? Ick!







A few cans of coconut water go in my bag too... it "counts" as a clear fluid if your hospy is being difficult about intake and it has more taste/good stuff than the fruit juice they're likely to offer.

Hmmmm... everything else I bring is pretty standard. Toiletries, laptop, a Terry Pratchett book (I've brought one to every birth so it's a formal tradition now







), cell phone, camera, aromatherapy/homeopathics, etc. I'm in the "I love mesh undies" camp and I don't mind the hospy pads during the first few days so I'm set there....


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wombatclay* 
I also bring a travel sized french press and some good coffee, good tea. Most hospy wards can bring you hot water but their coffee/tea? Ick!







A few cans of coconut water go in my bag too... it "counts" as a clear fluid if your hospy is being difficult about intake and it has more taste/good stuff than the fruit juice they're likely to offer.

Wow. I wish I'd thought of both these things. A cup of really _good_ coffee would have done a lot for my morale! And, the coconut water is brilliant.

Quote:

Hmmmm... everything else I bring is pretty standard. Toiletries, laptop, a Terry Pratchett book (I've brought one to every birth so it's a formal tradition now







),
I love that. I always take a book that I haven't read, but I don't have any particular author that I bring. Pratchett would be great...except he might make me laugh, and llaughing really hurts when I'm post-op.


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AustinMom* 
Thanks all for the replies to my last post. I like to think, as bad as this sounds that if there was a way to measure the intents of a mother, those who do what they can to bring their children into the world peacefully get extra points, and though I was not able to do that as an average mainstream mom gets lucky enough to, I still have the intent and I still have the rest of my kids' lives to be a high scoring mom. you know what I'm trying to say?

I hear that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Friday13th* 
I was stunned by the underwear issue after my first section, it never occurred to me that a) I'd end up have a csection and b) that EVERY single pair of underwear and pants I owned would hit exactly at the incision site. I ended up wearing those mesh undies they give you and LOVING them. They're so freakin hideous but man they're comfortable.

HECK yes. Ask the nurses for extra mesh panties so that you don't have to wash. And ask for extra chux pads to sleep/sit on for another week, just in case.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamitaM* 
I saw a birth plan for a c-section on MDC actually. I wish I could remember when and where though.

A woman in my (Feb. '09) DDC had a planned section due to medical issues and the previous loss of a child. She had a great birth plan, from what I can remember, if you want to look in the archives. I can PM you her name if you'd like.

I'd just go ahead and take Colace or the equivalent, if you want. No problems with 'roids from the 2 hours of pushing, PP BMs....that's another story.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

That would be great if you could link the birth plan or give me her name. Then we can have an idea of what a c-section birth plan can look like.


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

Gobs and gobs of natural family living c/s info here... including c/s birth plans written by mdc moms.









Books- Dh had packed a Terry Pratchett novel in his hospital bag... that birth turned into a c/s and one of the few pictures we have of dd1 in the first few days is DH holding her while reading Pratchett.







We're big Discworld fans and he is so prolific that it's been easy enough to find a "new" Pratchett for each birth. I like that his books can be read while still pretty loopy... you can read them again for the deeper storyline, but still enjoy them while sleep deprived and on pain meds.









french press- I can't remember who told me about that trick, but having decent coffee/tea really does make the world a little better. And the travel sized ones are great in general because they amuse toddlers/preschoolers too. A box of those "coffee-bags" is another option... not really great coffee, but still better than the average hospy patient fare.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wombatclay* 
Books- Dh had packed a Terry Pratchett novel in his hospital bag... that birth turned into a c/s and one of the few pictures we have of dd1 in the first few days is DH holding her while reading Pratchett.







We're big Discworld fans and he is so prolific that it's been easy enough to find a "new" Pratchett for each birth. I like that his books can be read while still pretty loopy... you can read them again for the deeper storyline, but still enjoy them while sleep deprived and on pain meds.









I've read all the Discworld books at least twice - most of them four or five times. I think I've read Hogfather about eight! They're really nice to re-read. DH hooked me on them a long time ago.

Quote:

french press- I can't remember who told me about that trick, but having decent coffee/tea really does make the world a little better.
Yup. I find the meals - including the coffee - to be a major slam on my morale, honestly. I remember being in the hospital with ds2, and the OB had told me I wouldn't be on liquid diet. The first morning, my "breakfast" tray came and it was coffee, water and juice. I actually started crying. However, my OB's instructions had reached the kitchen, so I got something that more closely approximated _food_ a few minutes later.


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamitaM* 
That would be great if you could link the birth plan or give me her name. Then we can have an idea of what a c-section birth plan can look like.

birth plan thread Feb. 2009 DDC scroll down to Post 5. She had a healthy baby girl.


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## amydiane (Feb 4, 2009)

Thanks for this thread. Very short version, I had a c/s 15 months ago after my posterior DD got stuck and my cervix swelled up. It's been on my mind a lot lately because we might be getting ready to start TTC again.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
I think that after the fluke way of losing Joseph, then the pre-eclampsia with ds2 and then 2 c/s, those around me see me as 'broken'. I mean, how many 'bad' side of the stats can one woman be?

I also get the feeling of being broken, especially to other people, even though no one has said that to me. My DS was born at 25 weeks due to a placental abruption. Then my pregnancy with DD was going great until I got diagnosed with GD. I was able to control it with diet, but I spent the rest of the pregnancy with HCPs pretty much treating me like a ticking time bomb.

All of the issues I've had have been weird, random flukes that no one could have predicted. So on one hand, I know that they're not likely to happen again, but on the other, I seem to have really bad luck with that.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *AustinMom* 
I think the more you know about risks, options, and decisions, the more you can be disappointed. I wish I were one of those moms who thought a CS was just another way to birth, and no big difference and formula and breastmilk have minimal differences, etc, so I would just be in the dark and not care.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss, huh?







I think that too sometimes.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CI Mama* 
At this point in my journey, the hardest part is envy. I want to be a supportive friend who celebrates my friends' joyful birth experiences. Instead, I have this claw of jealousy & self-pity that grabs my chest and makes me feel ill when I read their FB posts. My congratulations have this wan flatness to them. And I have this weird hope (is that the right word?) that someone I know will also have a prolonged, traumatic birth so that I can relate to them for a change. Did I just say that? It's so petty & horrible!!! Of course I don't want anyone to go through what I went through & I am happy for my friends when things go well. Except for this small, dark, heavy troll inside me that hates everyone who has a nice birth. Ug. I just hope that my weirdness is less legible to my friends than it is to me. It's not who I want to be, but there it is. I hope over time this part will get easier.

I have a bit of that troll too, though it has gotten better over time. I don't want anyone to have a traumatic birth either, but sometimes I wish some of the people I know could see the things that I've seen happen so that they'd understand. For example, I have a very close friend who has had 3 hospital births under a variety of circumstances (midwives, OBs, elective induction, spontaneous labor, med-free, epidurals) and she's never even come close to having a c/s or been treated badly by a HCP. All 3 have been fairly uneventful, vaginal births. Her last 2 were with the same practice that did my c/s (different doctors, though). So I think she thinks that I've overreacted or something to the way that I was treated by OBs, especially during my pregnancy with DD. It's weird and hard to explain because I know that she believes me, but she must not think it's that big of a deal because she kept going to the same practice for her 3rd.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
And then a doctor from said hospital responded with 'sure, as long as she had had a previous vaginal birth'. Which, technically, I do have. Except it's not usually counted since I was 'only' 16 weeks.

I've only had one c/s, but I've been wondering if my previous vaginal birth "counts" since I wasn't full term. I guess I'll find out when I start interviewing HCPs.

Right now, the hardest part for me is thinking about a future pregnancy. We want to have at least one more baby, maybe 2. I really really need to be able to trust my HCP and I don't give that trust blindly because of my previous experiences. Right now, I'm pretty set on a VBAC, but options around here are limited. I'm not really comfortable with a home birth (for myself) because of both our location and my previously mentioned luck. VBACs aren't allowed in birth centers in my state. So, that leaves hospital. There is only 1 hospital within a reasonable driving distance that allows VBAC, and only 2 practices that do them there. I had a mixed experience with one of them in the past, but they're not particularly natural birth friendly, and it's probably worse with a VBAC. The thought of having to fight through another 9 months and then during labor just makes me want to cry. The other group, I don't know a lot about yet....I've heard mostly positive things but a few concerning ones, and I think I'd probably have a lot of the same potential issues in labor with them anyway since they're at the same hospital as the other group.


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## amydiane (Feb 4, 2009)

Oh and I wanted to add that I felt very prepared and educated going into DD's birth. I had researched and I knew that I didn't want any interventions without a clear medical need. I had originally planned a birth center birth but got risked out due to the GD (another rant altogether). I hired a doula, who was great and extremely helpful. I took NCB classes. Of course I knew that birth is unpredictable, but I still felt that my odds of a c/s were very low and that it would be very clear if I truly needed one. (Yeah, not so much.) So next time, I have even more stacked against me now that I've had prior uterine surgery, and that's daunting.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

I wish I'd done things a little differently and been more open to a couple of things that I was viewing as interventions. The nurse said I should have a cath. when I arrived since I couldn't pee,I really could NOT pee at all. I was also offered the IV fluids b/c I was dehydrated. I finally said yes to both,but now think it would have been better to say yes earlier. I now realize that neither of these are "real" interventions in the way that say an induction would be.

The last few days my abs have been sore. Not sore enough to take any pain meds,but still sore and tender. How long can I expect this to last for? It's been 5 weeks now since my boy got here.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

Ami that's horrible how he didn't listen to you and then he left you,that shouldn't have happened at all. I'd see what I can do about making a formal complaint or talking to someone at the hospital who is higher then he is to see if something can be done about it.

My anestieiologist was super nice. I was so grateful to have met him. I was scared and so tired and a little angry that I had to have a section so when I met him he was like a breathe of fresh air,more human then the doctor had been you know. The doc and nurses were nice,but he was different. He talked to me so casually about how I was doing and if I was excited to have my baby and was it a boy or a girl and things like that before he started to ask medical questions. He even made a few jokes!


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## jammomma (Nov 17, 2008)

subbing


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

~~~~Just a reminder~~~~~

As a c/s mama myself, I know it's an emotional subject and one in which passions can flare. Please keep the mdc user agreement guidelines in mind while posting:

Quote:

Hello all you lovely Birth & Beyonders! We, your friendly Birth & Beyond Moderators, wish to remind everyone of some of the basic rules at MDC. The User Agreement, which all users agreed to follow upon creation of their account, states:

Quote:

1. Do not post in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, name-calling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.
While we strive to be supportive of women who have experienced trauma and violation in their birth experiences, it is important to keep in mind this part of the UA in discussing those experiences, and the birth professionals who participated. To that end, we would like to remind everyone that words and phrases like "MEDwife", "sCare Provider", and "sOB" are namecalling, and are against the UA.

In addition, we must avoid all namecalling, personal attacks, or demeaning criticisms while discussing any individuals, including the birth professionals who may have caused us harm. For example, while it is acceptable to talk about a physician's ignorance about normal, natural birth, and the damage that ignorance can cause, it is NOT ok to call anyone, no matter how ill-informed, anything like "an ignorant stupid poopoohead." We all must strive to maintain the highest standards in our conversations on such an important topic.

These are not new rules, but we will be enforcing them more strictly now - not in an effort to supress discussion or expression of justifiable anger or pain, but to keep those conversations civil and productive, that we might better be able to instigate positive birth change, both in our own lives and in society.

and also:

Quote:

Positive healthcare provider reviews are welcome. Please use careful language when responding to or soliciting a review. We do not wish to host negative remarks or comments about practitioners, practices, hospitals or healthcare centers that might cast them in a negative light and which would present liability concerns for you and for Mothering. Negative comments that are verifiable facts of public record or court ruling are acceptable. Please avoid speculation and/or gossip. Please contact the provider or care center directly with any concerns or questions.
If you have any questions or concerns, please PM a moderator. And please feel free to PM each other with information that you don't feel comfortable sharing in a thread.


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## Canadianne (Jul 14, 2010)

I am so glad to see this thread!

I am a first time mama who delivered via c-section on Sept 25th. I laboured for 24 hours before the OB determined a section was necessary due to failure to progress and the chance of uterine rupture.

As it happens, my uterus did tear during the section and my son's birth ended up being fairly traumatic. His APGAR score at one minute was 5 and he needed chest compressions and ventilation to get himself going. I lost a lot of blood and my section ended up taking over twice as long as it should have due to my unique anatomical situation (I have uterus didelphys bicollis which reared it's head in a very ugly way during my labour).

The hardest part for me was that I had to be so pumped up with medication (as a result of the section being so difficult) that I was hallucinating during the procedure. I was unable to determine what was happening and actually had two scenarios in my head as to what had happened. In one, my son struggled to breath for 8 minutes. In the other, he was not alive and I have a vivid image of seeing him swaddled on a table. This part of the section has been so hard for me to get over but I'm happy to say that slowly but surely the images are fading and I am able to focus on the positive (that my son is alive and doing well).

For the first week I did feel cheated out of a lot of the 'normal' birth experiences that my husband and I missed out on. My son didn't cry when he was born. They didn't hold him up for me to see him (not that I could anyways since I was so high) and they didn't announce that he was a boy. I can't watch A Baby Story anymore without crying because I know I will never have the type of birth experience that is so often portrayed on the show. Due to the uterine tear and my anomaly my husband and I have decided that we will not have anymore biological children so I have had that to process as well.

The good news out of my story is that I discovered just how much of an advocate my husband is for me and our son. He fought with the NICU staff to have them bring my son to me while I was still in recovery so that I could nurse. The NICU staff wanted to give him a bottle but I am happy to say that he has nursed from his first feeding and for everyone since then. I'm very grateful for my husband for fighting for me.









Thanks to all of you for your stories. It helps me greatly to know that I'm not alone.


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

Big huge hugs, and I'm so sorry you're facing such a traumatic situation. I hope your babymoon brings swift healing and many baby snuggles.

It may not help, but could you get your medical records and/or meet with the surgeon to discuss what happened and when it happened? Perhaps there was video footage that you could watch (again, if you wanted to... I don't know if I could watch, but many hospitals tape surgeries now to avoid future litigation)? Some way to put together the timeline and sequence of events so that you can put to rest some of the hallucinations? I know one mama who had a UR during her VBAC attempt and had an emergency c/s while under general anesthesia and she found some comfort in meeting with the surgeon and basically having him walk her through everything that happened so that she'd be able to build a mental sequence despite not having "been aware" during the birth itself.

Again, I'm so sorry you're facing this challenge... I wish I could welcome you to a happier thread here at mdc, but hope you find support and encouragement here!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamitaM* 
The last few days my abs have been sore. Not sore enough to take any pain meds,but still sore and tender. How long can I expect this to last for? It's been 5 weeks now since my boy got here.

The persistence of the soreness has varied a lot with my sections. After my first, I walked 18 blocks (15 of them uphill) home from my 6 week OB appointment. I tired more easily than usual, but don't recall any pain or tenderness at that point. With dd1, I can remember some soreness and tenderness for a couple of months, and I had intermittent stabbing pain in one end for 7-8 months. With ds2 and with Aaron, the sorness persisted quite a while..several months, at least. With dd2, I don't recall any real soreness past about 4-5 weeks.

It's all over the map, really. You'll probably start feeling better pretty soon, though.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

Oh i wonder if they tape them at my hospital. i'd love to see the video. i was awake but saw nothing. in fact i had no idea they even started. my doula laughed at me when i asked her when they were going to start and she said they were almost done! i called today to see if i can get the records and i can but have to there for them. i bet they are in french! so i'll have to have someone translate them for me.


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## collegechick (Jul 13, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amydiane* 
Thanks for this thread. Very short version, I had a c/s 15 months ago after my posterior DD got stuck and my cervix swelled up. It's been on my mind a lot lately because we might be getting ready to start TTC again.

My first child was born by c-section for this exact same reason.

For my next birth, I asked around for recommendations for a VBAC-friendly doctor, and ended up with a very nice one who saw the warning signs that my second labour was headed in a similar direction and used intervention to prevent it. My VBAC was successful.

As for babies crying at birth, my first screamed her head off but my second was completely silent once he emerged. He complained a little when they suctioned his nose and mouth, but stopped when they stopped.


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## Canadianne (Jul 14, 2010)

Thank you, *Wombatclay*.

I am to discuss my c-section with my OB when I go for my 6 week check up. Unfortunately, he was not the high risk OB that was working the day I delivered but it is my understanding that he has had a full briefing from the OB who performed the surgery. My husband gives me information as I ask for it but he missed about 1/2 an hour of the surgery when he was with our son so it will be interesting to hear what happened during this time.

I don't know if the surgery was taped. I know that there were a lot of doctors present due to the rarity of my uterus but my husband never mentioned anything about a camera. I'm pretty squeamish though so I don't know if I'd be able to watch.


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Canadianne. It sounds very scary, and disconcerting, what happened to you. If you need to vent about it at all, in detail, feel free to.









How soon after a c/s did any of you start strenuous exercise? Not walks, but jogging or running? Weight lifting?

I was doing the couch to 5k when I got pregnant this last time, and I'd love to return to it. I feel like a lot of my mental issues can be worked out with running. The natural high I get from it is something I've been craving, but I am scared to start something strenuous after my 6 week checkup. I'm 4 weeks out, but I'm scared of popping stitches. Is that an issue at this point?

Ami


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

That sounds so scary, Candianne









JTA, I usually don't start exercising strenuously till around 4 months pp, but that's more because by then the baby is old enough I feel okay leaving for an hour and half to go work out.

My steristrips are starting to come off, my scar looks so gross in the middle, blah


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
How soon after a c/s did any of you start strenuous exercise? Not walks, but jogging or running? Weight lifting?

My thing is dance (specifically contact improvisation, that's why I chose CI Mama as my handle!). CI can involve a lot of weight sharing so I knew I had to take a big break before I got back into it. I danced a little bit with two trusted close friends when I was about 6 weeks PP, and I didn't get back to our weekly jam until 3 months PP, and even then I took it really easy.

Getting into the dance studio feeds me in so many ways (physically, spiritually, creatively) and not dancing for 3 months felt like FOREVER. It was hard! But I'm glad I didn't push my body too hard.

I started getting out for walks almost right away, but very short walks at first, gradually building up to longer, faster walks. I also did simple stretches and yoga at home almost right away (again, starting with stuff that felt like barely moving, but gradually working up to more), and I still do that daily if I can manage it.

I starting biking regularly at 8 months PP. I probably would have started sooner if it weren't for winter! Plus I needed to buy a new bike. I now commute to work and just about everywhere else via bicycle 8-9 months out of the year. I love it, and it has really made a big difference in my physical recovery and in my mental health.

Everyone is different. I think the important thing is to listen to your body and pay attention to how you feel the next day. It's better to take it slow than to injure yourself.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

It seems like when I feel I'm getting better physically, I hurt more emotionally, and vica versa. I'm great emotionally now, well, not great, but carrying it well as I tell mom's I talk with who struggle with this crap, and now, I'm having that weird tenderness on my lower left abdomen. At my 3 wk check incision check the nurse said it's discharge, and normal and will go away in a couple months. Well, it went away, now it's back. Weird.

Canadianne-I can't say I know how it is because I never hallucinated during mine, but it was pretty crazy, and I do understand not getting another 'chance' to birth normally. I can't watch A Baby Story, I also can't read birth stories yet of 'good' births, and I don't want to hear about any even though I know 5 or 6 women who have had a baby recently. We had a placental abruption after a VBAC turned C/S due to heart tones, so IF we were to get pregnant, we'd be a VBA2C, and have a 10% chance of abruption again at anytime during the pregnancy and birth. So, to me, that's too risky to go through and put my baby through, and I don't want to grieve again over a crazy birth for another one of my kids.

JTA-I'm 4+ weeks out now and would love to get to exercising too, just yoga mainly, but we will see. i don't think I'm ready, and I think it's up to a mom's discretion, and how she feels. Take it slow, and listen to your body when too much is too much.


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## Canadianne (Jul 14, 2010)

AustinMom, I hope that your physical discomfort eases soon.







I agree that it feels like things come in waves. There are days when I feel great physically then all of a sudden I feel like my incision is going to tear open. I know that the increase in sensation is because the nerves are healing but it still makes me want to scream. It would be a lot easier to process everything that happened if I didn't have this pain to think about. I've also not regained any sensation in my bladder yet. I think that is more of a bother to me than anything else.

I'm sorry that you have also been forced to make decisions regarding any future children. I find myself wishing that the Dr had tied my tubes during the section so that I won't have to spend the next 20 years thinking about birth control.

I'm so grateful to have you ladies to share my experience with. I hesitate to tell most people because I know that they don't want to hear a bad story. It seems that everyone wants to hear the happy baby stories and don't know how to respond if things go sideways. In my case, I knew that a section was a strong possibility due to my anatomy so I had mentally prepared myself for it. What I wasn't prepared for was 1 1/2 hours in surgery where things went crazy. The people I do talk to seem to think that I should have moved on by now when the truth is that I am moving on, I just need to verbalize things in order to process what happened. Thanks for giving me the outlet.


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

CI Mama, I feel the same way about most activity. I need to run or dance or do something strenuous. I am craving that high. That physical release. I'm also known for pushing way too hard. I'm holding out still, but I feel like I'm chomping on the bit.

Canadianne and AustinMom, big huge









I feel the same way. The surgery went without a hitch, but that horrible botched epidural, seeing and feeling ds crashing and having to go into surgery....it was one of those 'not so good births. And people do have a hard time reacting to it. Since, well, baby is healthy, so why are we 'complaining'. Kwim?

Right now, mentally, I go back and forth on having more kids. I don't know. One moment when I'm feeling great, sure why not, even if they have to be another *shudder* c/s. Then, during the low moments, I FREAK. OUT. The thought of potentially another super painful labor (this last one was worse than the pitocin induced one), failing it, and going through another c/s. Dealing with the anesthesia.... I just, I just can't.

The thing is, I'm not done having babies. If only I could be pregnant and then have a newborn with someone else doing the birth.

My moods seem to swing wildly a lot. One moment I am fine, planning some fun stuff to do, another nothing looks like fun, everything is overwhelming, I'm questioning my life purpose, I feel like 'motherhood' is over, etc.

It's exhausting. And makes me feel like I'm going crazy.

Therapy is helping, although I'm only 3 sessions in. I just want to feel like myself again. I want to regain the confidence I used to have in my body. I just want to feel better and really be able to enjoy this period of my boys' life. Rather than being a moody, weepy, then 'normal' mama.

I can't read about birth or pregnancy or young babies either. It sparks too many 'bad' thoughts. I tried to read Plains of Passage, and I just can't, because I keep going over Ayla's painful birth and stuff in the previous books. Even though so far, nothing of that nature is in the book.

What type of light fluff reading is there that doesn't involve death, pregnancies, births, babies? What light fluff movies are there with these requirements?

Of course, as a good distraction technique, I've decided to redo my wardrobe. I barely have anything, since I was losing weight pre-Elias, and I am not willing to stretch my maternity wear even further. These items were things I bought way back when I was pregnant with Joseph/Stephen. 4 years of the same clothes.







And since I'm fashion challenged, this means I have to research and read and focus tons of mental activity on this task.









Ami


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## StarMama (Jun 25, 2002)

I had my pre-op today with the doctor who will be doing my surgery (next friday, eek!). This is the first doctor I've seen since the first that made me feel human and not like an incubator. He not only is ok with me seeing the birth (either lowering the drape, or a mirror) but thinks its a neat idea and wonders why more moms don't ask about it. I'm still so dreading having to have a surgical birth, but it is really comforting to feel like the doctor doing it isn't going to be annoyed at me not just being a quiet compliant don't ask anything patient.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Canadianne* 

I'm sorry that you have also been forced to make decisions regarding any future children. I find myself wishing that the Dr had tied my tubes during the section so that I won't have to spend the next 20 years thinking about birth control.


Yeah, DH said that he'd get a vasectomy once we decided it was too risky to have another. We talked about it more last night and he said he was kinda nervous about getting one (not that he has one scheduled or anything [yet]). I said, well, since I took care of birth control since we've been married, and took care of the pregnancies, births, labors (both 2+day labors), surgeries, the emotional and physical recovery, the breastfeeding, etc. You can take care of not having any more.







I think that's fair.

He said, he's fine with not having another, and her truly, really doesn't want another, but the thought of not being able to is hard to deal with. I said, what about the thought I have to deal with of risking getting pregnant again (a rational risk on my life and the baby's) and dealing the me 'not being able' to birth again. I see his concern, and I think it helps him understand my emotional state better to be honest.

JTA mom-I know after a birth, especially a traumatic one, I always wanted a 'do-over' so I would think of the next baby/pregnancy/birth, but to be honest, you don't have to. You don't have to decide anything right now. You don't. Give it time. In the future, once you heal, you may see that another baby would be wonderful and you'll have no emotional stress about a potential CS and you may birth wonderfully, _or_ you may decide that another baby just doesn't fit into your family. That's all in the future, you don't have to think about it now.







LOVE TO YOU!!
No help on the reading part, I'm not a big reader at all, but hope you find something! Maybe take up knitting? lol!

Starmama-that's so good to hear. Do you think you'll get a chance to talk with the anesthesiologist and the nursery staff about once your baby is born start BFing in the OR? I think it'd be a perfect compliment to seeing your baby born, much more like a vaginal birth


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StarMama* 
This is the first doctor I've seen since the first that made me feel human and not like an incubator.

This can make a huge difference. Also, will you have a private room, where dh can room in if you want to? For me, this would have made a huge difference.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AustinMom* 
You don't have to decide anything right now. You don't. Give it time. In the future, once you heal, you may see that another baby would be wonderful and you'll have no emotional stress about a potential CS and you may birth wonderfully, _or_ you may decide that another baby just doesn't fit into your family. That's all in the future, you don't have to think about it now.







LOVE TO YOU!!
No help on the reading part, I'm not a big reader at all, but hope you find something! Maybe take up knitting? lol!

This is what my mom, my therapist and even I have said to myself. I'm letting it go as best as I can. I have an issue in my life of not letting things go, and while that can be wonderful (say, while trying to get into college) it's not so wonderful in other ways.

I do knit, but there's a problem. Lots of physical stuff (running, cleaning, knitting) I do to let my mind wander. Wandering is NOT good, lol. Hmmm, maybe I need to make a super complicated item?









ETA: I'm still having bouts of melancholy but talking with my mom helps. Being in the now helps. But I'm not sure when it can morph to PPD. I mean, I've had a pretty traumatic event happen to me. This melancholy can be a normal part, no? When would it indicate something more serious?

I keep feeling like my expectations are for too much too soon. I mean, if something else traumatic happened to me (say, God forbid, rape), I would not be expecting to be back to normal one month later. So why do I expect that after this horrible experience? Why am I expecting to 'bounce back' so soon? I want to also go back to feeling normal physically, but my body doesn't let me. Why must I go back to normal so fast? Maybe because these feelings, physically emotionally and mentally are just that damn uncomfortable? Because I want to go back to the me that could listen to a song without sobbing due to certain lyrics? Because an unexpected plot twist in a book/movie/tv show can send me reeling into either an anxiety attack or deeper melancholy? When will I feel normal again?

Having people coo over my newborn gives me a bit of anxiety. I dread the possibility of someone asking how his birth was, how I'm doing (how can I answer that without tmi), etc.

Ami


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

You can answer with as much info as you want. They asked, and I feel only good friends will ask and will want to know. If they are asking 'just to be polite' I say, it was pretty rocky, we are still coping. If they as for more info, they probably do care.

As far as when to recognize serious PP issues, I'd say ask a close friend, sounds like your mom may be a good source, idk, to do some reading on PP issues and they be an outsider's gauge on when things are too rough. But if you think about it, the solution when things are serious is usually therapy, and you're doing that. I'm personally against medication for things like this, I think they stall the process and are really risky, but that's my opinion and my experience. I wouldn't worry about that part of recovery, and you are right, it was something traumatic, and it does take time and sometimes it's hard to be alone and let your thoughts wander. I know that, and I feel that same way sometimes. I don't avoid those times and don't try to keep busy to not think, because I think, thinking through those emotions and thoughts are what heals us, not shelving them for 'another time'. Again, that's just me. When you are feeling low, that's the time to start processing at that moment. On a good day, don't worry about digging up emotions, just enjoy your baby, for some those days are few and far between, why ruin them with emotionally shifting your thoughts to a traumatic memory?

With the more kid thing, that's different, tell yourself, I promise to process this at the best time, and that is later. I'm not ignoring you emotions, but I am telling you to wait your turn when it is best to address you.









if you knit, try oragami, it takes a lot of mind thought, following directions, and you can fill your baby's room with lots of paper cranes for good luck! lol!


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## Canadianne (Jul 14, 2010)

When people (those whom I am not close to and don't want to share details with) ask me about the birth I say that it was difficult but that the end result was well worth it. This allows me to acknowledge the birth for what it was but generally means that I don't have to share any further information. I have found that people ask that question just like they ask 'how are you?' They ask to be polite but don't really want to be bothered with the truth. So far I have not had anyone pry for further information.

And AustinMom, we are in the same boat regarding vasectomies. I really don't know what we are going to do because I am 100% not volunteering myself for another surgery to have my tubes tied. I'm sure we will come up with a solution but that this point I don't see it. What I do see is the sheer terror I have about accidentally becoming pregnant. That's something I really need to work on.


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## Friday13th (Jun 13, 2006)

I'm with you guys on the subsequent kids, I was positive we were done for a while and now DS2 is reaching that snuggly, smiley age that I love and I'm a little sad to think we're not going to have another one. Realistically it wouldn't be for a LONG time because I don't like being pregnant/caring for a newborn with a crazy toddler but I hate the impact two csections have had on my decisions. I mean I don't think I could bring myself to just schedule a section because there's nothing "wrong" with me but I also don't think I could deal with the emotional impact of trying and failing again. Blarg. I kind of want DH to just schedule a vasectomy and be done with it. And part of me thinks well, I could just go the hospital route, epi and whatnot, try not to get to emotionally invested in the process and just accept what happens...but that's not what I do well. at. all.

I hate telling people I had a section, especially those that new we were planning an HBAC. I feel like I have to justify like crazy and still end the conversation feeling like they don't get it.

My midwife has my surgical records and her assistant has the pictures she took during labor (I was so looking forward to birth pictures but that didn't happen. again.







) and I can't bring myself to get either of them, I'm afraid it's going to send me careening into a tailspin.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

The more kids thing is really tricky for us. Birth control and sterilization are absolutely out of the question because of our religious beliefs. We use a form of NFP, but I'm only 28 and frankly, 15+ years of relying on nfp to avoid pregnancy is really daunting.

Alison, the fear of trying again and "failing" is what bothers me the most. I feel almost ashamed for "failing" especially after "succeeding" last time and having a great vba2c. I can't say for sure, but my guess is my OB wouldn't refuse me if I wanted a vba3c, but I don't know if i have it in me to try again.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

I'm so glad that we have this thread. It's nice to see that we're not alone in the way that we feel.

The past couple of days I've felt stressed. A bit annoyed and angry that I'm not getting the help I thought I'd get from an agency who I thought would help me with some housework and stuff since I really don't have any family or friends who will help me. I had a friend beg to come over and help me clean the 2nd week I was home,but she came only to annoy me by getting into my babes face and taking his picture! Seriously! She kept saying she wanted to help and even called me from her doc's office to read me an article on how c-section mamas needs outside help and should accept it when it's offered so I finally said she can come over and help clean the bathroom and she didn't. I wasn't mad about that so much,more with the way she didn't respect when I said not to bug my son and when she said she'd never heard of a new mama not wanting others to hold and kiss their babies. I was mad with her so a few days later I told her we needed a break from the friendship. More reasons then just that though.

On Friday I was frustrated and it felt like my depression was sneaking up on me. I can't tell the difference between baby blues and PPD and regular depression. I called my social worker and left a message saying she WAS going to give me the help I was asking for and she WAS going to make sure I got it this week or I'd fall apart. It was me who went to the health clinic and requested a social worker to follow me and be part of my support system so that my depression doesn't come back or if it does she can help me with it.

Today I watched a video a friend posted on facebook. It was about how doulas and midwives need to take care of themselves. It was a nice video that showed pictures of natural births and said how strong women were and all this. It made me a bit sad that I didn't get to go through that natural vaginal birth. I don't know if I ever will. I feel that I missed a lot,a big important part of birth that I don't think I can make up for. I wasn't really sad about it before but think I am now a little.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Yeah, I'm still a little bitter we didn't get better cards dealt to have a natural birth, especially a homebirth, especially a vaginal birth.

Alison-I totally get the needing to justify why your HBAC didn't work out. That's why I feel I have to go into a long story of the birth (as it is a long story) in order to not convince the woman that birth 'failed' and needs to be medically managed and should take place in a hospital. It doesn't help that I was planning on really getting involved in the ICAN group more, the leader and I joked about taking it over once the baby was born, and it doesn't help that I'm also a Doula, who has yet to start practicing. GRRRR.

I think if I was just a VBA2C for the next pregnancy, I'd be ok with more kids. I'd still tremendously fear surgery (I agree with the tube tying thing by the way, totally out of the question with me, no way in H3LL I'm gonna do that) and the fear of having another CS and the risks there. I don't fear the VBAC part to be honest. In a way I'm kinda glad I had an abruption (and this can be taken out of context, but please don't) because it really does add more risks to a future pregnancy and really is plenty for me to decide that 2 babies is enough for our family. So, I'm not really that sad about not having another. I don't really care for this stage as both my babies have been pretty complicated newborns with breastfeeding, sleep and my first with allergies and such, and I don't really want to go through this again. But, once they are 5 and 7, I'm sure I'll get a few wanting a baby urge, but DH will be 'fixed' by then and I won't have to worry about 'should I should I not have another baby'.

Cherrybomb-yes, 15+ years of any birth control sounds daunting to me, even the pill. I'm not trying to embark on your religious beliefs, my parents were the same way actually. My oldest brother ended up being a CS, my sister after that a CS, then my brother after that. They realized that the 'be fruitful and multiply' scripture (which is what they were basing their beliefs on, I'm not saying that is all there is to yours at all, trust me, I'm NOT judging you in any way, just telling you there situation) was before the fall of man and how now, sometimes it's really risky. So they tried to prevent more kiddos, then I came along, then my younger brother, those were both CS as well, and then my dad got a vasectomy. 5 major abdominal surgeries was far past too much FOR THEM. Not saying that's how it is for everyone, but that's their story.

Mamita-I hope you get the help. You really do need an outside source gauging where you are at, as it's hard to tell when you are in the thick of it.
Oh, and crappy friend, I'd tell her that you expected her help and she wasn't there and if she really thought post CS moms needed it as much as she said to convince you, then she's pretty crappy for doing that. That's what I'd do, but I know you weren't asking for advice. If I was around you, I'd come over and do a load of laundry, clean your bathrooms, and bring a casserole.







Hugs to you!


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
I keep feeling like my expectations are for too much too soon. I mean, if something else traumatic happened to me (say, God forbid, rape), I would not be expecting to be back to normal one month later. So why do I expect that after this horrible experience? Why am I expecting to 'bounce back' so soon? I want to also go back to feeling normal physically, but my body doesn't let me. Why must I go back to normal so fast? Maybe because these feelings, physically emotionally and mentally are just that damn uncomfortable? Because I want to go back to the me that could listen to a song without sobbing due to certain lyrics? Because an unexpected plot twist in a book/movie/tv show can send me reeling into either an anxiety attack or deeper melancholy? When will I feel normal again?

Having people coo over my newborn gives me a bit of anxiety. I dread the possibility of someone asking how his birth was, how I'm doing (how can I answer that without tmi), etc.

With my first - I played the part of going back to normal quickly, but I didn't really bond with my babe until 6months later. I resented him for everything that happened. Terrible for a new mother to say, worse to actually feel. I think many of us try to get "back to normal" because it seems like all moms (c/s, vaginal what ever) get back to "normal". But what is normal? Is is a face, a facade we put on when guests are around? Society doesn't give us the luxury of being able to work through the pain with respect and distance which is needed sometimes. As for people asking... I would be honest as everyone needs to know not all births are sunshine & roses. Its tough, its emotional, but again limiting it without going into too much TMI which could trigger an attack.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamitaM* 
Today I watched a video a friend posted on facebook. It was about how doulas and midwives need to take care of themselves. It was a nice video that showed pictures of natural births and said how strong women were and all this. It made me a bit sad that I didn't get to go through that natural vaginal birth. I don't know if I ever will. I feel that I missed a lot,a big important part of birth that I don't think I can make up for. I wasn't really sad about it before but think I am now a little.

I'm sorry about your friend... I think there are many new mothers who don't want others to hold their babies and there are so many ways to give to a new mom beyond just holding their babies and I would say cleaning a bathroom would be one of those!!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *AustinMom* 
... That's why I feel I have to go into a long story of the birth (as it is a long story) in order to not convince the woman that birth 'failed' and needs to be medically managed and should take place in a hospital. It doesn't help that I was planning on really getting involved in the ICAN group more, the leader and I joked about taking it over once the baby was born, and it doesn't help that I'm also a Doula, who has yet to start practicing. GRRRR.

This is my fear in becoming a doula... I've only had sections and how would a client view me & my experiences? Would it color them to think I would only support hosptial births or that I don't know how to advocate for myself well enough so how could I advocate for her? I'm on the fence about even thinking about an HBA2C because of the risks, but I feel like I would need to turn in my "doula/crunchy" card if I didn't consider it.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

I think you can still be a doula even though you had a c-section. I'm not even sure the doula I had even has children and she was great. I think if I met a doula who said to me they had a c-section for whatever reason I'd still be ok with that IF it the reason she had it was something other then "so I could get back into shape sooner" or "so my baby can have a cool birthday" or "I wanted to go on a cruise a month later and couldn't be pregnant then". You can then explain that while you believe in and support natural births you do understand that there are times when a c-section is needed for the sake of the mother and baby and you know the difference. For me I really didn't want one and I was confused if I should consent or not. I had to many emotions going on along with lack of sleep and proper meals for 3 days. I really needed the clear voice of my doula to explain that yes,it was needed and that it was ok to say yes.


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## Canadianne (Jul 14, 2010)

MamitaM, I'm sorry your 'friend' turned out to be so unhelpful. Good for you with setting boundaries with her.

_ktg_, I understand about the difficulties with bonding. I just admitted to my DH yesterday that I wasn't even sure that our son hadn't been switched at birth. He was born with such (unexpected) dark hair that I didn't think he could be mine. Since I don't have any memory of his birth I had a hard time with this. It ended up taking me a week to finally fully believe that I was his mama and even then I still needed to hear that my DH never left our son's side after he was born in order for me to really be at peace.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
I just want to feel like myself again. I want to regain the confidence I used to have in my body. I just want to feel better and really be able to enjoy this period of my boys' life. Rather than being a moody, weepy, then 'normal' mama.

...

What type of light fluff reading is there that doesn't involve death, pregnancies, births, babies? What light fluff movies are there with these requirements?


It took me a long time to feel better, to feel "normal", to regain some measure of confidence in my body. The first three months of DD's life were just an eternity to me, it seemed like I would never feel pleasure in my body again. But I'm not sure how much of that was directly from the C/S and how much was the shock of being a new mom, the absolutely crushing sleep deprivation, the breast infection, and the inadequate support network I had. Somehow I survived all that.

Books I read when I want to escape my own reality as thoroughly and enjoyably as possible: Harry Potter series, Pride & Prejudice (and other Jane Austen), Wizard of Earthsea series (Ursula LeGuin), anything by Alison Bechdel. Someone loaned me Anne Lamott's "Operating Instructions" and it was the perfect thing (got some great belly laughs...and it felt good!). We rented a bunch of episodes of a British comedy show called "Little Britain" which is full of some of the most weird, surreal humor I've ever seen, and it somehow fit the surreal feeling of those early months as a mom. I'd plug in a video, prop myself up in bed, and nurse for what seemed like hours every night, alternately weeping and laughing.

Ami, you seem really self aware and I think that will really help you on this journey. It took me months to figure out that the freaked out feeling I was having was related to birth trauma. I just thought I sucked at being a mother.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_ktg_* 
This is my fear in becoming a doula... I've only had sections and how would a client view me & my experiences? Would it color them to think I would only support hosptial births or that I don't know how to advocate for myself well enough so how could I advocate for her? I'm on the fence about even thinking about an HBA2C because of the risks, but I feel like I would need to turn in my "doula/crunchy" card if I didn't consider it.

I hope that no one who feels called to be a doula will be discouraged from that work because of personal history with c-section. My perspective is that the true measure of doula-work is not "how prepared am I to help someone who has a picture perfect natural birth" but "how prepared am I to help someone who is struggling with a less than perfect birth."

Personal experience with that struggle, practical knowledge of how to deal with a stressful situation, personal wisdom about the pros and cons of interventions, compassion & humility are all great traits for a doula to have.

Please don't turn in your doula/crunchy card! You're needed and have really valuable experience & perspective to bring to your work.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

My doula has never had biological children (she has 2 adult adopted children) and she was awesome.


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## Friday13th (Jun 13, 2006)

Hm, I see that you're new here so I want to say as nicely as possible, we are entitled to our feelings and to a place to discuss them freely. I'm glad you feel good about your csection and your part in the process. Unfortunately a lot of us do not and the "healthy mom, healthy baby=success" attitude is so prevalent that it is very hard to find help and support to process a birth that did not go as planned or desired.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Ama-mama - I'm glad your birth experience and c-section were wonderful.

As this thread is titled, this is an area for support, compassion and understanding for those of us who have had c-sections and wrestle with our decisions, expectations and emotions. The birthing experience is not and should not be wrapped up into an end goal of healthy baby, healthy mother, but a journey which may challenge even the best of our intentions and hopes and how we come out the otherside to make improvements to the process.

Thanks


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## ama-mama (Oct 12, 2010)

Well, considering how many posts there are in this thread about how OTHER people have made the posters feel about their c-sections, and how many felt they needed to defend their decisions, I don't think my views are out of line. I think there is so much pressure on women to have a certain kind of "birth experience." IMO, that is unhealthy. These expectations can lead to PPD, a slower, harder recovery, and an atmosphere where some women feel superior, when in reality they may have just been lucky.

As I said, I didn't plan on a c-section. I stayed home for quite a while after my water broke before going to the hospital. I also believe that one reason many women have bad c-section experiences is that, in their effort to have a vaginal birth, they resist medical advice until the situation is truly dire.

All that said, I also think my experience was a good one because I was lucky in many ways. The OB on call was the most experienced in the practice, and likely the most skilled surgeon, I lucked out with the anaesthesiologist, my doula rocked (even though she was my backup, as my first choice was out of town for Thanksgiving (I delivered at 38 weeks)), and that it was hospital policy not to separate mother and baby post c-section. From what I understand, it's unusual that I was holding my daughter almost immediately and that she was nursing, skin on skin so quickly.

I have friends who've had still births, I have a dear friend whose daughter's neural tube defect was not discovered until after her birth. To downplay the importance of a healthy baby vis a vis an "experience" makes no sense to me. I'll just end this by saying to the women who feel that other women have made them feel "less than" for not having a vaginal birth, you are a strong woman who endured major abdominal surgery to bring your child safely into the world, and possibly to ensure that you would survive to mother your child. That is the furthest thing from "less than" or "broken."


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## MaryLang (Jun 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ama-mama* 
Well, considering how many posts there are in this thread about how OTHER people have made the posters feel about their c-sections, and how many felt they needed to defend their decisions, I don't think my views are out of line. I think there is so much pressure on women to have a certain kind of "birth experience." IMO, that is unhealthy. These expectations can lead to PPD, a slower, harder recovery, and an atmosphere where some women feel superior, when in reality they may have just been lucky.

As I said, I didn't plan on a c-section. I stayed home for quite a while after my water broke before going to the hospital. I also believe that one reason many women have bad c-section experiences is that, in their effort to have a vaginal birth, they resist medical advice until the situation is truly dire.

All that said, I also think my experience was a good one because I was lucky in many ways. The OB on call was the most experienced in the practice, and likely the most skilled surgeon, I lucked out with the anaesthesiologist, my doula rocked (even though she was my backup, as my first choice was out of town for Thanksgiving (I delivered at 38 weeks)), and that it was hospital policy not to separate mother and baby post c-section. From what I understand, it's unusual that I was holding my daughter almost immediately and that she was nursing, skin on skin so quickly.

I have friends who've had still births, I have a dear friend whose daughter's neural tube defect was not discovered until after her birth. To downplay the importance of a healthy baby vis a vis an "experience" makes no sense to me. I'll just end this by saying to the women who feel that other women have made them feel "less than" for not having a vaginal birth, you are a strong woman who endured major abdominal surgery to bring your child safely into the world, and possibly to ensure that you would survive to mother your child. That is the furthest thing from "less than" or "broken."

Thanks! I needed that tonight. I'm going in for my 5th in the morning and am so nervous and even though I feel comfortable with this decision, I tend to second guess a lot when I'm under pressure.
I always wonder "maybe I could've had that VBA3C or maybe I should have gone for a VBA4C? I mean other women have." But with my history of scar dehiscence and placenta problems, I know my risks are higher with a VBAC and that it's better for the baby if I have the c/s. And it was nice to read the part about feeling "less than" tonight.


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## ama-mama (Oct 12, 2010)

Glad that helped, Mary. Congrats on #5! With 5 imminently on the way, you are the furthest thing from "less than." You are Supermom. Hope all goes smoothly tomorrow. I wish drs and hospitals did more to make all kinds of birth experiences as good as possible. You don't need to have a vaginal birth to have a joyful birth experience. And mothering is SO much more than childbirth. One of the most incredible moms I know is the adoptive mom of 2 amazing children. Some of the choices she's made in dealing with things with her kids just blow me away with her wisdom. So much of her mothering is about mindfulness. I think that applies to birth experiences. Instead of wishing for a different kind of experience, be in the moment of the one you are actually having.


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## wombatclay (Sep 4, 2005)

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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Mary, good luck and congrats! Not to sound weird, but I'm glad to hear you're having your 5th c/s, it gives me hope I can safely have more children someday







(And, i have a friend who has had 6 c/s and might have more, so I know it's possible!)

I understand what you're saying, ama-mama (though I don't think it came out the way you meant in your first post).


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## ama-mama (Oct 12, 2010)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CherryBomb* 
I understand what you're saying, ama-mama (though I don't think it came out the way you meant in your first post).

Thanks, CherryBomb. I think a lot of what I was trying to express in my first post (maybe unsuccessfully), is how awful it is for other mothers to make a woman feel bad for having a c-section. The atmosphere that makes it okay for women to judge each other contributes greatly to women beating themselves up and second guessing their decisions. You may get another chance at the childbirth experience you want, but you don't get a do over for that particular child's birth. So what's the point of welcoming your child into the world with self recrimination and regret?


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ama-mama* 
So what's the point of welcoming your child into the world with self recrimination and regret?

I think the issues a lot of us have is that we know vaginal birth is safer (void medical contraindications) and we plan for that for our babies and are more sad that we couldn't give them a safe birth, or simply that they didn't have one, as we know a lot of time the choice is not up to us. So, it's not that we don't welcome them, it's that the process of birthing them was difficult, not what we planned, we most likely felt afraid, out of control, looked down upon (by ourselves or others) or all of those and more.

It's very easy for one who has had trauma in the past rape, molestation, physical abuse, other scary events, some maybe relating to surgeries, to hate the fact that they had/had to have a cesarean. To these moms, just because the baby is here and they are to, doesn't mean both are 'healthy', and I think that's a little misunderstood.

I believe that birth is an event personal to both the mom and baby and it's separate than the love of the baby, but a bad birth can cloud that line and make it difficult for a mom to work through. The not bonding is a simple fact of nature. In studies, when sheeps are given just an epidural for birth, they don't want anything to do with their babies. What if we did not only that, but actually cut the babies out of them. How traumatizing for the ewe and lamb, and I'm sure you would that some reactions mom's have are simply part of our mammalian make up.

Just to say also, I doubt many moms 'resist medical advice till the situation is truly dire'. I think that is incredibly irresponsible, and dangerous. I think moms that don't respect the risks of some interventions are in the same category. There are plenty of women who know that VBAC is safer (usually), epidurals are risky (some times should be delayed and other interventions tried) and such and they put htemselves subject and their babies to risks.

Yes, I agree there is pressure to have 'the perfect birth'. I think this is wrong also and women should not necessarily believe that they should be happy with a healthy mom and baby, but should be happy, in time, when they work through their process knowing they did everything they could for a happy, healthy birth for them and their babies. Otherwise, women feel that they again, are crappy for not being 'over it' and that they are now ungrateful in addition to the plethora of emotions they are working through.


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AustinMom* 
I think the issues a lot of us have is that we know vaginal birth is safer (void medical contraindications) and we plan for that for our babies and are more sad that we couldn't give them a safe birth, or simply that they didn't have one, as we know a lot of time the choice is not up to us. So, it's not that we don't welcome them, it's that the process of birthing them was difficult, not what we planned, we most likely felt afraid, out of control, looked down upon (by ourselves or others) or all of those and more.

It's very easy for one who has had trauma in the past rape, molestation, physical abuse, other scary events, some maybe relating to surgeries, to hate the fact that they had/had to have a cesarean. To these moms, just because the baby is here and they are to, doesn't mean both are 'healthy', and I think that's a little misunderstood.

I believe that birth is an event personal to both the mom and baby and it's separate than the love of the baby, but a bad birth can cloud that line and make it difficult for a mom to work through. The not bonding is a simple fact of nature. In studies, when sheeps are given just an epidural for birth, they don't want anything to do with their babies. What if we did not only that, but actually cut the babies out of them. How traumatizing for the ewe and lamb, and I'm sure you would that some reactions mom's have are simply part of our mammalian make up.

Just to say also, I doubt many moms 'resist medical advice till the situation is truly dire'. I think that is incredibly irresponsible, and dangerous. I think moms that don't respect the risks of some interventions are in the same category. There are plenty of women who know that VBAC is safer (usually), epidurals are risky (some times should be delayed and other interventions tried) and such and they put htemselves subject and their babies to risks.

Yes, I agree there is pressure to have 'the perfect birth'. I think this is wrong also and women should not necessarily believe that they should be happy with a healthy mom and baby, but should be happy, in time, when they work through their process knowing they did everything they could for a happy, healthy birth for them and their babies. Otherwise, women feel that they again, are crappy for not being 'over it' and that they are now ungrateful in addition to the plethora of emotions they are working through.

Perfectly put, as always.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AustinMom* 
Yes, I agree there is pressure to have 'the perfect birth'. I think this is wrong also and women should not necessarily believe that they should be happy with a healthy mom and baby, but should be happy, in time, when they work through their process knowing they did everything they could for a happy, healthy birth for them and their babies. *Otherwise, women feel that they again, are crappy for not being 'over it' and that they are now ungrateful in addition to the plethora of emotions they are working through.*

Great point, especially the bolded. I think it's important for us to be gentle with ourselves and each other and respect that we might all be in different places.

At any rate, I'm 3 weeks out from my c/s and feeling decent physically. I'm also feeling more at peace about it emotionally, and more accepting of the fact that any future babies will be born via c/s. I'm still working through some stuff, but overall I'm okay. I hope everyone else is doing okay, too.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ama-mama* 
So what's the point of welcoming your child into the world with self recrimination and regret?

The point? The point is that that's how we feel. It's that simple. I didn't wake up after my first c-section and think, "okay - time to feel like an awful mom and a failure"...I just felt that way. (And, I didn't even know about the natural birth community, so it wasn't about anyone "making" me feel that way.)

And, I've had a stillbirth - at term, after an HBA3C attempt. And, I still _despise_ the "healthy mom, healthy baby" mantra. It makes me furious whenever I hear it. It's been used to push me down a path I never would have chosen on my own, and it's part of the mindset of the people who stepped all over me to protect me from...me.

I have many, many regrets. I didn't decide to have them. I just do. Dealing with them is a 24/7 task that affects every part of my life. Now, in my case, the reason it's so hard to say, "Oh, well, I did my best" is because I _didn't_. But, whatever the reasons, the self-recriminations and regrets just _are_. They don't have to have a point.


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

so I don't know if this is the right place to post this thought- but I guess it is related to my c section. It is just that I am 7 and a 1/2 month post c section (which is my only birth experience so I have nothing to compare it to) and while the weight in most of my body is rebounding somewhat to pre pregnancy form, still a ways to go but feeling fine with it, despite that my Belly is still huge and I look about 6 months pregnant! Like the rest of me is slimming down but my belly still protrudes out really far. I even had a guy on a train the other week say something to me like, it looks like your baby is going to have a sibling! I'm like- no, I am not pregnant. But I can see how he thought that. So is this c section related? I am quite active, eat a lot but not ridiculous- I am just wondering if the belly area in your guys' experiences, stays big/ pregnant looking for longer after a c section than a vaginal birth? I don't know but in some ways I feel like my body is still protecting that incision area. but it is awkward to still look pregnant.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

snapdragon: It sounds as though you have a diastasis. They happen in a high percentage of pregnancies, but I believe - based solely on anecdotal evidence, so take it for what it's worth - that they're more common, or at least generally more severe, after a c-section.

Check out maternalfitness.com and/or the book, Lose Your Mummy Tummy for more information.


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

thanks for the idea- I looked up what that is but that is not what I have! My belly just looks big and round. It probably wasn't the right place to post it here- and I am feeling fine about it so now I think I will move away from that subject please, thanks!!


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## calynde (Feb 11, 2005)

Hi mamas,
Can you please help me out with some info? I'm pregnant with my 3rd, the first 2 were unfortunately cesarean births. It looks like we will have to move back to the US (probably NY) before the end of this pregnancy, and I know nothing about how c-sections work there, as both of mine were born in Europe.

I have anxieties about sharing recovery rooms with other women...do you know if it's possible with private insurance to have a private room, or whether it is possible to pay for an upgrade?

How long do they let you stay and recover?

Will it be possible to hire a postpartum midwife/doula to help out with the recovery at home afterwards even if you've had a c-section?

Do they always ask for parental permission before they try to jab your newborn with a vaccine or other treatment? Or do they sometimes do it without you knowing?

Do I have to look for a certain kind of hospital that allows for rooming in with the baby?

Sorry for so many questions...I'm freaking out!







Thanks so much to anyone who will kindly take the time to help me understand!


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Hi calynde! Do you have any idea where you'll be moving to? Really, it all depends on the hospital. I had a great hospital that only has private rooms, for example, but that might not be the case in many other hospitals. Standard stay for c/s is 3 days, I think this is pretty consistent across the country. Yes you should be able to hire a pp doula. Legally they're supposed to ask parental permission before doing anything. Rooming in is pretty standard in many hospitals now.


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## calynde (Feb 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CherryBomb* 
Hi calynde! Do you have any idea where you'll be moving to? Really, it all depends on the hospital. I had a great hospital that only has private rooms, for example, but that might not be the case in many other hospitals. Standard stay for c/s is 3 days, I think this is pretty consistent across the country. Yes you should be able to hire a pp doula. Legally they're supposed to ask parental permission before doing anything. Rooming in is pretty standard in many hospitals now.

I don't know where exactly we'll be. The job is in NYC, we're still grappling with whether to live in the city or out in the burbs.

3 days? omg, we have 7 days here, including 3 delicious meals a day and massages, herbal teas and acupuncture to aid healing. then they pay for a post partum midwife to come to your house every day for a week afterward.

Of course, I knew this wouldn't be the case in the US, but I was soooo not ready to go home on day 3. man.









thank you so much for responding!


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Oh gosh, that sounds heavenly! Well, I doubt you'll find a hospital like that here, but hopefully you can find a decent place.


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## MoonStarFalling (Nov 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calynde* 
Hi mamas,
Can you please help me out with some info?

All the rooms in the three hospitals I've used are private rooms and I've always roomed in without having to ask. I've stayed 2.5 days after each c/s. I couldn't wait to get home and rest comfortably. With our first they did everything without asking. He would come back with band aids on. Now my DH goes with the baby every single time to make sure they don't do that.


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## karen1968 (Oct 2, 2006)

Hello, ladies. Just subbing in. Glad to have found this thread, although I have not read it all. I just had a c-sec on Friday, planned at 37w1d due to complete previa. I had been planning a home water birth. Like some of you, I have a sense of my body failing me.

Can't keep me eyes open. More later.


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## Canadianne (Jul 14, 2010)

Congratulations on your new baby Karen! I'm sorry that you are feeling like your body has failed you. I hope that these feelings will pass over time.









One of the things that I appreciated most about my hospital is that they purposely do not use the term "natural" birth. Whether their patients deliver vaginally or by c-section, with medication or without, they do not consider any birth to be more "natural" than the other. Each scenario results in the birth of baby and that is what they focus on and each mother is esteemed for what she went through to bring her baby into the world.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

congrats and welcome karen! take it easy the next few days and enjoy thew babe!

anyone here from mary? she was about to have her newest addition a few days ago.

i don't mind the term natural child birth for the non-meds births,but now that i've had a c-section birth i don't like the term "normal" birth to describe ant type of vaginal birth. i feel that my c-section birth was still normal and resulted in a beautiful and healthy baby.

i am missing some of what i could have had with a vaginal,pain free birth,but soon hope to release all of that.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Congrats Karen! Previa is a tough thing to deal with, I hope your baby is doing well being early, that was always my fear with scheduled CS. I had an abruption at 43 weeks at the end of labor and I know how you feel about your body failing you.

There are a lot of posts here through out this thread that are very helpful and supportive, I think they are worth reading. You will see a lot of women feel the same emotions you are feeling now and have yet to feel.

Rest up, enjoy your baby as much as you can and feel like, but do address the emotions you have about the birth, they are worth dealing with. Post again when you have energy.









Much Love to you!


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

I agree that the term natural birth doesn't necessarily bother me, but "normal" birth does. It seems like a very loaded, judgmental term.

Karen, congratulations on your little one! Sorry about the previa and c/s









My feelings are always up and down about this last c/s. I don't really have negative feelings about the surgery itself, but I have a lot of regrets about decisions I made. I asked to be induced for PIH instead of continuing bedrest, I asked to do it Monday instead of Friday (when my OB would have been the on call), I consented to surgery after the c/s happy oncall suggested it for ftp...etc etc. I feel resentful of people I know who have such easy labors and deliveries, like my friend who was induced at 39 weeks, got her epidural right away, labored for 4 hours and pushed 3 times. Sigh. (Granted this was her third, but she was induced at 37 weeks with her first 2 and also had easy labors).


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## Friday13th (Jun 13, 2006)

Congratulations Karen! Hope you're enjoying the little one.

For some reason everyone I know seems to be having these 3-4 hour labors and popping the baby out in the comfort of their own home. And I've been feeling so sad and "why me?" I had 4 days of labor and 2.5 hours of pushing w/ DS1, a day and half of labor with like 8 hours of on and off pushing w/ DS2. It makes me feel like my body is just not designed to deliver babies. DH said, well maybe it is something physical and in that case, how can you feel bad about it, it's totally out of your control. But that doesn't sit right at all. I know what went wrong with DS1 but have no idea what happened with DS2 and I'm fairly sure it's unrelated.

I've also just been grieving the vaginal birth experience I'll most likely never have. Something I always wanted. And it makes me wish I didn't know what natural birth was supposed to be like and that I hadn't read all those awesome, empowering home birth stories. And it makes me wish I didn't care and could just be happy with just doing what I was told.

And honestly, the term normal birth, in a hospital situation is generally not a natural birth either.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Friday13th* 
And I've been feeling so sad and "why me?" I had 4 days of labor and 2.5 hours of pushing w/ DS1, a day and half of labor with like 8 hours of on and off pushing w/ DS2. *It makes me feel like my body is just not designed to deliver babies. DH said, well maybe it is something physical and in that case, how can you feel bad about it, it's totally out of your control.* But that doesn't sit right at all. ..........

I've also just been grieving the vaginal birth experience I'll most likely never have. Something I always wanted. And it makes me wish I didn't know what natural birth was supposed to be like and that I hadn't read all those awesome, empowering home birth stories. And it makes me wish I didn't care and could just be happy with just doing what I was told.

I so get this (bolding mine). I went through this, and with my first he was asynclitic, 24 hrs. active labor only 4cm to 6cm, then CS, second was with a baby who we now think was in the same position possibly, and with non reassuring heart tones, 36+hrs active labor 5cm to 9cm, then back to 7cm at hospital and with an abruption. I delt with the, 'if it's physical it's not my fault', but honestly, if it's emotional, it's not your fault either. There are plenty of emotional things that inhibit labor and those aren't our fault either. If we had the tools to recognize them and change those circumstances, we would, just as physical things. We didn't. We did the best we knew how to do with the situation that was given.

Oh, and I'll never have that vaginal birth experience, as we have to sadly and gladly be done with having babies. So, I get that too, and it's worth grieving over for me.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AustinMom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Bolding mine...

This is such an important thing to recognize, and I really appreciate you phrasing it in this way. The mainstream view of birth doesn't seem to acknowledge that emotional history has anything to do with birth. And the natural birth approach talks a lot about how emotions affect birth, but seems to assume that you can just "get over" your fear, grief, or whatever just by thinking positive, putting love in your heart, having an outstanding support team (as if everyone can manifest that just by wanting it), etc. Neither approach is very helpful for those of us with complex emotional histories.

I had one experience of pregnancy & birth, and that's it for me, too. I'm sad that my birthing experience was so difficult and that's all I'll ever know. It's another strand of grief woven into my being, and as time goes by, it's easier for me to accept that that's how it is and to have compassion and even tenderness for my grief.

I do sometimes think that people who have "peaceful, blissful" birthing experiences have a sort of charmed existence.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

This is going to sound harsh, but I think the majority of people who have 'peaceful, blissful' births are really not exploring their true emotions on it (mainly mainstream women). I think it takes a VERY strong person to work through the process of birth having happened to them. For instance, I think back on BOTH my CS and directly after I was fine with everything. It was the, well, she's here now, everything is great, we had to do what we had to do, I'm glad we did it, everyone was very respectful of what I wanted, etc. A few days later, it was not. I was hurting to the core of my being as I realized what just happened to my body and my baby. I worked through that layer, then a week later, there was another. Then you work through that, then a month later, there's another, etc. It doesn't get worse, but it IS a process, and I think the women who say that the way their baby was born didn't matter to them aren't working through that process. Again, this is not ALL mom's, but I do think it's the vast majority of them.

Kuddos to US for working through these emotions and this process and yes, our kids and ourselves, and those closest to us will benefit from our work.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AustinMom*
> 
> This is going to sound harsh, but I think the majority of people who have 'peaceful, blissful' births are really not exploring their true emotions on it (mainly mainstream women). I think it takes a VERY strong person to work through the process of birth having happened to them. For instance, I think back on BOTH my CS and directly after I was fine with everything. It was the, well, she's here now, everything is great, we had to do what we had to do, I'm glad we did it, everyone was very respectful of what I wanted, etc. A few days later, it was not. I *was hurting to the core of my being as I realized what just happened to my body and my baby. I worked through that layer, then a week later, there was another. Then you work through that, then a month later, there's another, etc. It doesn't get worse, but it IS a process, and I think the women who say that the way their baby was born didn't matter to them aren't working through that process. Again, this is not ALL mom's, but I do think it's the vast majority of them. *
> 
> Kuddos to US for working through these emotions and this process and yes, our kids and ourselves, and those closest to us will benefit from our work.


This is what I've been talking with my doula about and she has been fanstatic in just letting me work through each layer and even acknowledge that one day I can be fine & proud how I handled my 2nd c/s" and then the next day an utter wreck emotionally.

I remember when I decided to consent to my 2nd c/s - I had the lines of the serenity "prayer" running through my mind.

God/Goddess, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
Courage to change the things I can;
And wisdom to know the difference.

Not trying to proselytize , but I find it interesting as we work through these emotions how true some of this "prayer" resonates whatever your beliefs.


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## MamitaM (Sep 10, 2010)

I was also ok with my choice right after it happened. I was very scared and angry during the c-section,but as soon as I heard my swet baby cry that was all gone. I was so happy for days after. It wasn't until a few weeks later when I started to feel a loss for the birth that I'd had to give up.I think at first I tried to convince myself that I was totally fine and had no issues and that I'd let go of any bad feelings I had. Now I have some mixed feelings about but I don't want to dwell on them b/c I don't want to make myself feel bad for consenting to the c-section.


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## Friday13th (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MamitaM*
> 
> I was also ok with my choice right after it happened. I was very scared and angry during the c-section,but as soon as I heard my swet baby cry that was all gone. I was so happy for days after. It wasn't until a few weeks later when I started to feel a loss for the birth that I'd had to give up.I think at first I tried to convince myself that I was totally fine and had no issues and that I'd let go of any bad feelings I had. Now I have some mixed feelings about but I don't want to dwell on them b/c I don't want to make myself feel bad for consenting to the c-section.


Oh this is so how I felt after the first. I had several months of everything's fine, I'm totally good with it and then one day I just started sobbing thinking about this stranger's hands in my body pulling my baby out instead of the peaceful, beautiful birth I'd always wanted. And then I started to see the decisions we made that led to that and got really angry, at myself, at our birth team. At least with DS2 I really don't think we could have done anything else, there was some cord issue or something that was preventing him from descending, so I'm sad about it but not angry or regretful.

I came to this ridiculous realization yesterday that I've been really spoiled in my life and the only thing I've ever REALLY wanted that I haven't gotten is my birth experience. It never even occured to me with my first that it would go anyway other than what I'd planned and with the second I thought, "I'm doing everything right this time, surely I'll get it now" but I still didn't. So in a way maybe this will help me get over my notion that I get everything I want and even moreso that I can control everything.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MamitaM*
> 
> I was also ok with my choice right after it happened. I was very scared and angry during the c-section,but as soon as I heard my swet baby cry that was all gone. I was so happy for days after. It wasn't until a few weeks later when I started to feel a loss for the birth that I'd had to give up.I think at first I tried to convince myself that I was totally fine and had no issues and that I'd let go of any bad feelings I had. *Now I have some mixed feelings about but I don't want to dwell on them b/c I don't want to make myself feel bad for consenting to the c-section.*


Bolding mine.

I agree that we should not dwell on our feelings to make ourselves feel bad for consenting to the cesarean, BUT it's *OK* to dwell and work through the feelings for not getting the best birth you feel your baby or you deserved. Sometimes we have no option but to consent to the cesareans like with abruptions, previas, fetal distress, etc, and we still are sad about the way things turned out and we still wish them to be different. I think deep down, you are not feeling bad for consenting, but feeling bad because you wished it would have been different, and that's ok to feel that way, and that's ok just let yourself have those emotions, it's part of the process.  HUGS to you.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AustinMom*
> 
> Sometimes we have no option but to consent to the cesareans like with abruptions, previas, fetal distress, etc, and we still are sad about the way things turned out and we still wish them to be different. *I think deep down, you are not feeling bad for consenting, but feeling bad because you wished it would have been different,* and that's ok to feel that way, and that's ok just let yourself have those emotions, it's part of the process.


ITA with this, this is exactly how I feel.


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## pacifica (Apr 8, 2006)

Hi all. I just stumbled upon this and am subbing. I have a sweet beautiful 3 1/2 month old baby and I'm working through coming to terms with my second c-section. My hospital is a small rural hospital that doesn't "do" vbac's, so unless I wanted to travel 80 miles to the nearest city to vbac or have a homebirth without adequate support, I had to have another c-section. I'm mourning the fact I will not experience a natural birth, as we are finished having children. The experience was pretty traumatic, because they couldn't get the epidural in for a long time (like almost 3 hours) and then I ended up having a spinal headache after going home and had to go back to the hospital for a blood patch, which is another epidural poke. I was terrified and also in very bad pain from the dura leak.

My baby was small which me feel like the vaginal birth would have been possible. I'm a small person and didn't dilate for my first birth. But she was breech. Nobody knew she was breech until the surgery, so I'm not sure if she could have been turned or if it would have been an unsuccessful homebirth.....yada yada yada. I just keep having these thoughts that I work through. Anyways, Hello! I will start reading the posts in this thread!


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Welcome! As far as small baby, my daughter (who was an attempted HBAC turned CS after 36 what not hours, suspected abruption which ended up being the truth, etc) was a pound and a half smaller than her brother who was a CS due to FTP, etc, and her head is in the 25% and his was in the 50-75%-ish. She was WAY smaller and yet she never even descended to 0 station and he got to +1. Birth is weird, there is never any knowing how it will end up. That in itself, the not knowing, is the hardest thing for me to get past. I want to know why. I want to put blame somewhere. I want to say that it could have happened, but it didn't and we don't know why and we never will. Due to her crazy birth, we are done with kiddos too. So I'll never get that either. That sucks, and to me, I don't know about you, makes me feel in a way like less of a woman, like I'm not complete. But I have to tell myself, that even though I couldn't give my babies a safe vaginal birth, and I couldn't give myself that either, I still completely love and accept myself as their mother and a woman.

Recovery is crappy. I'm 2 1/2 months out and I fell like I'm finally getting to normal. But every woman is different. The second CS has been much harder on my body than the first. Others say different for them. The spinal headache is a pain in the head and a$% too. I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

Much love to you. 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pacifica*
> 
> Hi all. I just stumbled upon this and am subbing. I have a sweet beautiful 3 1/2 month old baby and I'm working through coming to terms with my second c-section. My hospital is a small rural hospital that doesn't "do" vbac's, so unless I wanted to travel 80 miles to the nearest city to vbac or have a homebirth without adequate support, I had to have another c-section. I'm mourning the fact I will not experience a natural birth, as we are finished having children. The experience was pretty traumatic, because they couldn't get the epidural in for a long time (like almost 3 hours) and then I ended up having a spinal headache after going home and had to go back to the hospital for a blood patch, which is another epidural poke. I was terrified and also in very bad pain from the dura leak.
> 
> My baby was small which me feel like the vaginal birth would have been possible. I'm a small person and didn't dilate for my first birth. But she was breech. Nobody knew she was breech until the surgery, so I'm not sure if she could have been turned or if it would have been an unsuccessful homebirth.....yada yada yada. I just keep having these thoughts that I work through. Anyways, Hello! I will start reading the posts in this thread!


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## karen1968 (Oct 2, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AustinMom*
> 
> Recovery is crappy. I'm 2 1/2 months out and I fell like I'm finally getting to normal.


I'm sorry it has taken so long for you to feel normal. At the same time, I'm glad to hear this, as it means my continued belly pain/tenderness at 5 weeks out is not out of the ordinary. I am so TIRED of having low-grade pain, though. It just adds to the misery of sleep deprivation.


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## pacifica (Apr 8, 2006)

Thank you for this post. I so so totally get what you say about "not knowing". I am thankful to be healthy and have a healthy baby and our lives can continue as a family. I know many people are not as fortunate. I remind myself of that, but I mourn my and my baby's vaginal birth that didn't happen. I'm sad my whole family couldn't experience a peaceful home birth.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AustinMom*
> 
> Welcome! As far as small baby, my daughter (who was an attempted HBAC turned CS after 36 what not hours, suspected abruption which ended up being the truth, etc) was a pound and a half smaller than her brother who was a CS due to FTP, etc, and her head is in the 25% and his was in the 50-75%-ish. She was WAY smaller and yet she never even descended to 0 station and he got to +1. Birth is weird, there is never any knowing how it will end up. That in itself, the not knowing, is the hardest thing for me to get past. I want to know why. I want to put blame somewhere. I want to say that it could have happened, but it didn't and we don't know why and we never will. Due to her crazy birth, we are done with kiddos too. So I'll never get that either. That sucks, and to me, I don't know about you, makes me feel in a way like less of a woman, like I'm not complete. But I have to tell myself, that even though I couldn't give my babies a safe vaginal birth, and I couldn't give myself that either, I still completely love and accept myself as their mother and a woman.
> 
> ...


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

My son (3rd c/s) was my smallest healthy baby, though he had a biggish head. He very stubbornly did not want to move down (went from -1 UP to -2 after 28 hours of induced labor!) So, who knows. Sorry to hear about the spinal headache, I had that with dd2 (my second c/s) and it was horrible. It lingered for a month before it went away, but I never went for my pp check so never had the blood patch. Recovery wise, my first c/s was hard, my second was pretty easy, and my 3rd was in between. Though I wonder if a lot of that is my perception because my third birth was a vba2c...it was so easy (in comparison) to recover from, I wonder it makes the c/s birth that followed seemed harder just because of that. Anyway, I'm 8 weeks post partum and mostly back to normal, though I'm still getting pain around my incision area if I walk a lot of exercise much (especially along the left side, which comes out much farther and kind of culy ques).


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## TreyaJames (Dec 11, 2010)

I had my daughter in India and received far, far better care there than I did for my two miscarriages in US (one miscarriage, one ectopic). My doctors in US were great, but getting an appointment, fighting to get early ultrasounds and the insurance companies were an absolute nightmare. The maternity hospital I went to in India was so patient and had so many competent doctors and nurses on hand that I am strongly considering going back if I get pregnant again!

That said, I had a car accident ten years before the birth that broke my pelvis. My OB in India realized upon looking at the x-rays that my pelvis had healed asymmetrically - no one had ever caught this before!! He warned me early on that it could cause issues and to be prepared for a c-section. So I was. He still opted to try and have a vaginal birth if possible, so when my water broke, he had me come to the hospital and he monitored me closely for about seven hours. And as soon as he realized her head was stuck on my pelvis, I had no issues with going for the emergency c-section. However, I have had women who seem to think I am less than a good mother because I didn't try harder for a "natural birth". My child came out with a ridge on her head from where it was stuck on my pelvis!! And they have the audacity to criticize my decision? I think we all try to make the best decisions for our children and sometimes the best decision isn't the easiest. Those women who look down upon those who have had to have c-sections have no idea what is involved with the decision. It was those women who caused issues for me in regards to my decision. Otherwise, the moment I heard her shout in the operating room, I was relieved that no harm had come to my daughter. I also think it helped that I had so many compassionate people in the room with me (husbands and relatives aren't allowed due to too many people having fainted during the procedures in the past :s). Only the doctors and the anesthesiologist spoke good English, but those nurses and maushis were so comforting and kept me updated through sign language and the little bit of the local language I knew. It was a very positive experience despite the fear I had for my daughter's well-being. They brought her out to my husband and MIL while they were stitching me up and then brought her back to me so we could be brought to our room together. They immediately put her to my breast and she latched on so well.

Anyone who has had to make the decision to opt for a c-section should be supported, not degraded. I just wish more people realized that. Sorry for the rant...


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## MoonStarFalling (Nov 4, 2004)

Totally agree with you TreyaJames. Having a c/s was never a decision I came to quickly or easily. I'm feeling very frustrated by people's judgments this pregnancy. I felt that realistically I would likely end up with a third c/s for many reasons. I just wish people in my circle would understand that and just support me.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

As a mom who has had 2 CS, I have to say my piece. Mine were needed. My first was technically a FTP after 27 hrs active labor and head moving from 0 to +1 then to 0 again, and only getting from 4cm to 6cm. Rough. So we transferred from the birthing center to hospital and had our first CS. I thought I hadn't tried hard enough, and so planned an HBAC for my second, 36+hrs, head not even to 0 station, 9cm, then back down to 7cm, suspected abruption, etc then to another CS. I haven't gotten anyone say I should have tried harder, so I don't know how that feels.

BUT.......I DO have issues with women who say, 'oh I didn't want to try for a VBAC, because my 39 week induction failed so I figured this would too...."etc. To me, no, they didn't try and if they knew the risks of VBAC vs ERC, I feel that yes, they did put their babies at unnecessary risks and I do feel they should have tried for a better birth for their babies. Is it their choice? Yes. Do I feel like it lessens my experience by saying, 'Oh yeah, I had to have one too, just like you did, because my baby was suspected 'big''. Yes, I feel it does, and it does make me angry when they treat my birth they way they treat theirs. Mine was different.

Now, TreyaJames, your birth is different. Obviously you DID try and you DID have to have one, but I can see how some women think others could have tried harder and it de-validates their attempt and their desire for a normal birth for their babies. I can see both sides, but NOT the side that says women like us should have tried harder, we did. We gave it everything, and due to our decisions to have a CS at the time we did gave our babies a safer birth than what 'nature' could have given them, and for that technology, I am thankful.


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## karen1968 (Oct 2, 2006)

Well said, AustinMom! I think there is a big difference between elective c/s and necessary c/s. Unfortunately, not everyone sees or acknowledges that difference.

And even with a necessary c/s, even when your friends and family are totally supportive...there can be grief and sadness around what happened. I had a previa - there is no question I needed a section. I fought it, did TCM to try to get the placenta to shift, pushed the section as late as I could, to the consternation of the doctors. I did everything I could to prevent it, had full support of family, friends, hb midwives, etc. and still I mourn the loss of the birth that could have been. I am 42, this is my last babe, and it hurts. It hurts and it sucks that my body didn't work quite right to get either of my babies out the way I wanted. But I am dealing with it. DD is here, she is healthy, I am healthy though still recovering, and I believe, for me, that the way she was born will matter less and less as time goes on. But again, I have full support. Not a single person has looked down on me for what had to happen.

I really feel for those of you who don't have that support.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

UG, yes, the judgments about c-section really suck, as do the feelings of needing to constantly justify one's own experience.

I am more than 2 years out from my c-section, and I'm still coming to terms with my own judgments about my experience, which are of course the harshest and least forgiving. Was my c-section necessary? I don't have a clear answer to that. At the point at which it happened, it was the only safe way forward for me and for my baby. But did I do enough to prepare myself for a natural birth? During my long labor, did I make the best possible choices? Did I advocate for myself as strongly as possible? Did I try hard enough? Could I have done better & could I have created a better outcome? There are no easy answers to any of those questions.

What I want most of all from others is support that comes without assumptions. I don't want to have to tell the whole freakin' story in order to receive understanding. And I don't want to tell only a few details and then have whomever I'm talking to fill in the gaps based on their own experiences and political views about birth. Most of all, I don't want anyone to think that it was a simple experience with a simple explanation for why it happened the way it did.

And since this is what I want from others, it's what I try to give others as well. I know people who have had elective c-sections, and I try not to assume that I know what was best for them or judge their experience. Birthing experiences are complex and there's often no simple answer to why people make the choices they make. Whether or not I will ever know the full complexity of their tale, I can give the gift of believing that they did the best they could with what they had to work with.

The more I can do this for others, the easier it is to do it for me. Which is what I need most, of course.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

I had the same questions about my first birth (also first CS) and after my second (also CS and last) birth, I feel that I could have maybe avoided my first if I was the woman at the first birth that I was at the second. I know, confusing, but bear with me. I was so much more educated the second time around. I was stronger, and more prepared, and had a MUCH better support team, and DH was AMAZING the second time compared to the first. I labored longer, and harder, got to 2 more cm, etc. I STILL had a cesarean. STILL. So, my points are these...

1-we know we can never go back, but as women and moms, we will always look back and looking back and seeing is easier when we KNOW we did EVERYTHING we could at THAT time with what we knew.

2-Sometimes even with all the right cards, it still doesn't happen, and that's ok, as long as....(see point 1)



Much Love to all....HUGS!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> I am more than 2 years out from my c-section, and I'm still coming to terms with my own judgments about my experience, which are of course the harshest and least forgiving. Was my c-section necessary? I don't have a clear answer to that. At the point at which it happened, it was the only safe way forward for me and for my baby. But did I do enough to prepare myself for a natural birth? During my long labor, did I make the best possible choices? Did I advocate for myself as strongly as possible? Did I try hard enough? Could I have done better & could I have created a better outcome? There are no easy answers to any of those questions.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> I am more than 2 years out from my c-section, and I'm still coming to terms with my own judgments about my experience, which are of course the harshest and least forgiving. Was my c-section necessary? I don't have a clear answer to that. At the point at which it happened, it was the only safe way forward for me and for my baby. But did I do enough to prepare myself for a natural birth? During my long labor, did I make the best possible choices? Did I advocate for myself as strongly as possible? Did I try hard enough? Could I have done better & could I have created a better outcome? There are no easy answers to any of those questions.
> 
> ...


Well said!


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> UG, yes, the judgments about c-section really suck, as do the feelings of needing to constantly justify one's own experience.
> 
> ...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AustinMom*
> 
> I had the same questions about my first birth (also first CS) and after my second (also CS and last) birth, I feel that I could have maybe avoided my first if I was the woman at the first birth that I was at the second. I know, confusing, but bear with me. I was so much more educated the second time around. I was stronger, and more prepared, and had a MUCH better support team, and DH was AMAZING the second time compared to the first. I labored longer, and harder, got to 2 more cm, etc. I STILL had a cesarean. STILL. So, my points are these...
> 
> ...


Both of you capture my thoughts about my c-sections!







Well Said!


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## ovafertilberg (Feb 21, 2007)

I'm usually a lurker on these boards but I wanted to chime in with my own c-section experience.

I've had diabetes since I was 17, so going into our pregnancies, we knew that I was a high risk patient. I searched high and low for an OB who would work with me on having the best birth possible and was lucky enough to find one who I clicked with and trusted (as well as she trusting me to take my pregnancies and medical condition seriously). I also work with an MFM doctor and an endocrinologist. To say that my pregnancies are highly managed is an understatement.

With DS, because of some indications of early placental breakdown (which is common with women who have pre-existing diabetes), the decision to induce at 38w2d was made, but it wasn't made lightly. My OB and I spent several appointments talking about the pros and cons of the decision. She said that if I really wanted to try waiting for spontaneous labor, I could. I did research on my own about induction, and ultimately (for a lot of reasons), chose to be induced. All in all, I was in labor for 27 hours and had stalled at 6 cm for 4 hours. My L&D nurses were fabulous, trying various techniques and position changes to help get DS to engage lower and help me dilate more. At a quarter to midnight, my OB came in and talked to me about our options. We could wait and try a few more things and see if I'd fully dilate or I could have a c-section. She was so patient and encouraging to me. After discussion our options with my husband and giving me a little while to think about it, I finally called her back in and said that I was just exhausted and ready for this baby to be born. And then she said the most wonderful thing I could have heard at that moment: "You have done great. A c-section does not mean you failed. I've proud of you for all that you've done over the last couple of days. Having a baby is hard work. Really hard work and sometimes babies need help out. Everything is going to be fine and in about an hour you'll be back here holding your new little one." She was right.

I never felt pressured into the c-section. She never used scare tactics. She never threatened or cajoled me into surgery. It was a very positive experience. I know that a lot of women, c-section is not positive and I'm so sorry to hear how difficult their experiences and resultant birth trauma and recovery is.


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## matty02 (Nov 8, 2010)

I just found this thread and am so glad someone started it! I had a planned home birth with my first baby but after 50 hours of labor and over 7 hours of pushing the midwife brought me to the hospital. My DS was not turning his head and I had a c-section. I was so sad and thought I failed in some way. With my second I used hospital midwifes, labored for 12 hours, pushed for over two, and again my DD would not turn her head. This time I was okay with getting a c-section. It was healing to know that my first labor wasn't my fault because both my babies did the same thing. It was the shape of my pelvis (nothing I have control over). It took the second c-section to heal from my first.

This time with baby #3 I have a planned c-section. I am okay with that. I feel like there are two communities of extremes...one community like on mothering where it is all about home births and how can I not fight for a VBAC2, and the other extreme of once a c-section always a c-section. It is nice to find this thread. It should be its own forum.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

It's really nice to hear of a well supported labor and choices and birth of a mama and baby. I'm really glad you had this experience. Thanks for sharing. 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ovafertilberg*
> 
> I'm usually a lurker on these boards but I wanted to chime in with my own c-section experience.
> 
> ...


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Welcome! I agree, it's nice to have a middle ground. I'm not a fan of either sides. I think if you wanted a VBA2C then you should go that route. If you want a repeat you should go that route as well. I know this is supposed to be about healing mainly, but I wanted to let you know, even though you are planning a repeat, you still have options. For instance. You don't have to schedule it. Yes, it's fine to decide that the birth will end in a CS, but you can still wait to go into spontaneous labor to make sure baby is fully cooked so you avoid the typical 'too early CS scheduled baby' issues like higher rates of jaundice, respiratory issues, and BF issues. You can wait for labor and then head in for a CS. You could even labor for a while so baby can benefit from the contractions. That's all up to you. I think if I were to have another, I'd opt for a repeat CS. I would wait for labor, labor as much as I wanted and then head to the OR on MY TIME FULLY prepared and ready. I'd also have baby put directly to breast after he/she was out.

I just wanted to let you know that you DID do amazing with your births, and it WAS out of your control and they DID need that extra little help from the medical world and you are a GREAT mom for recognizing that. I am so sorry you didn't get to VBAC with your second, and totally respect your choice to do a repeat CS.

Much Love to you too!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matty02*
> 
> I just found this thread and am so glad someone started it! I had a planned home birth with my first baby but after 50 hours of labor and over 7 hours of pushing the midwife brought me to the hospital. My DS was not turning his head and I had a c-section. I was so sad and thought I failed in some way. With my second I used hospital midwifes, labored for 12 hours, pushed for over two, and again my DD would not turn her head. This time I was okay with getting a c-section. It was healing to know that my first labor wasn't my fault because both my babies did the same thing. It was the shape of my pelvis (nothing I have control over). It took the second c-section to heal from my first.
> 
> This time with baby #3 I have a planned c-section. I am okay with that. I feel like there are two communities of extremes...one community like on mothering where it is all about home births and how can I not fight for a VBAC2, and the other extreme of once a c-section always a c-section. It is nice to find this thread. It should be its own forum.


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## matty02 (Nov 8, 2010)

Thanks for that response! You don't know how much I needed that. My old community was all about VBACs no matter what and the community I am in now doesn't have a hospital or midwives that will do VBACs. I was going to a doctor that wanted to schedule my c-section at 38 weeks with no discussion. I went to a new doctor in the area (and a friend of a friend) who agreed to go until a few days before my due date. She said if I go into labor it is fine with her. I didn't even realize that was an option!

The one thing that really bothered me about the c-sections was I was not able to see my DC the moment they came out. I was very clear with my second that this was important to me but I guess she wasn't breathing right away so I didn't see her before she was cleaned up. With both I refused to let the nurses take my babies to the nursery and kept them right by my side. I am hoping with a planned c-section I can make more of a birth plan and see my baby before being cleaned up and given eye drops!

I also hear what everyone is saying about a c-section being major surgery! I think so many people think it is "the easy route" they forget the amount of healing involved.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matty02*
> I am hoping with a planned c-section I can make more of a birth plan and see my baby before being cleaned up and given eye drops!


My last one sucked, but it was still the best of the five, because the doctors actually listened to me (and I think my OB put a gigantic, neon "LEAVE HER ALONE" note in my file so the nurses would back off). Some things to look into, if you're interested...

1) Breastfeeding on the table. I was told this wasn't possible, but the L&D nurse who prepped me and accompanied me was a former midwife and thought the baby wanted to nurse...so she and dh held dd2 upside down over my shoulder (parallel to me, I mean - but with the top of her head pointed at my feet) to nurse. It was amazing.

2) I don't know if this matters to you, and it depends on the particular anesthesiologist that you get, but I managed to get an okay on having dh come into OR while I was getting the spinal. That made a huge, huge, huge emotional difference for me. I find the spinal and the surgery itself equally terrifying and it was really hard to be alone for the spinal with my other two scheduled sections.

3) And, yes - definitely look at a later scheduling date, if possible. I ended up being scheduled for 39w, 5d, because my doctor's OR privileges got shifted to Friday (if she'd still been on Mondays, I'd have gone 40w, 1d!). But, I had some BH contractions a couple days ahead, and a few more pronounced ones, with a hint of bloody show an hour before I left for the hospital. I was so, so happy for that little bit of labour, because I hate having my baby's birthday picked by a hospital OR schedule.


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## matty02 (Nov 8, 2010)

Thanks for the tips! I didn't even know that DH might not be there for the spinal. My last to c-sections were a blur because I had been pushing for so long. I don't think I was ever alone but again, it was a blur!

I didn't even know I could nurse right away. They did give me DD to hold but my arms were too weak from medication so my mom (who was with me) held her next to me. I'll bring this all up with the doctor. I am so glad that there are others that want that same bonding experience even with a c-section.


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## MoonStarFalling (Nov 4, 2004)

Matty I also had 2 c/s after long labors, last one was an HBAC transfer after many hours of pushing. I just had my third c/s only this time it was planned. I weighed all the options and it was a complicated decision my friends couldn't understand. It was really nice to have a definite birth plan. I got everything I wanted and the experience was awesome. It was my first happy birth. I was easily getting out of bed, taking care of the baby, only on ibuprofen that same evening. I hope your birth goes just as well.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Some things to consider for your birth plan.

Go into labor on your own. There is no risk of danger unless you have placenta previa, which is quite rare. This makes sure the hormones for you and baby are where they need to before s/he is born. I highly suggest this. Also, BFing on the table of course. You can also have the screen lowered to see the birth or have a mirror propped up. Maybe also have pictures taken in continuous shot as baby emerges and is brought to your chest. No vitamin K or Heb B (if you are doing these) till much later as they are not necessary and if you want them, can be done at any time (except the Vit K, it needs to be done within 6 hours of birth, but that's still a lot of time) The eye goo (erythromiacin sp?) is for moms who have babies pass through their vagina with gonoreah (sp?) If you have neither of these or not both, then baby doesn't need the eye cream. Of course there are risks to some having issues with it, but more importantly it blurs their vision for up to days. Have music playing if you like. Ask for 2 support people. The Anesthesiologist is the one who runs the show, so ask to meet with him before you are wheeled to the OR and ask if you can have 2 if they are sure to stay out of his way. Most are fine with this. You have to clear it with the nursery to have baby brought to your first instead of them, and they are usually fine in the absence of medical emergencies. Again, talk with them just before you are wheeled back.

You still have a lot of options even if you don't have a VBAC. 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matty02*
> I am hoping with a planned c-section I can make more of a birth plan and see my baby before being cleaned up and given eye drops!


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

It's been a long time since I posted to this thread. A long, long time.

This last C/S was rough, mentally and emotionally. I went into a pretty bad downward spiral in terms of ppd and pp anxiety. It was so bad I couldn't really sleep. For weeks I would startle at any little sound. It was horrible. Right now I am in the tale end of an intensive outpatient program. Compared to how I was, I am much, much, much better. However, I feel like having a failed VBAC has thrown me for a big loop. It's made me question lots of things. Lots of plans I had.

My babe is only 3.5 mos old, so way too early to think of siblings. But, I can't help but feel robbed. Some part of me is angry at the fact that my first UNNECESSARIAN happened. Because even though I feel like this one was needed, having 2 c/s limits me. A lot.

And it makes me angry to hear of other moms talk about how they went in for an induction and baby came out 2 hours later. Of all my friends who've had babies, only ONE had a c/s. And she chose it because her baby was 'too big'. No trial of labor. Totally happy with it. So I feel like no one understands.

And it makes me angry to think that if I do become pregnant, I have to jump through so many hoops to even try a VBA2C. I am angry of the hoops I had to jump through being a VBAC!

Dh and I planned on having a large family. But the thought of having multiple major abdominal surgeries scares me. While this c/s was better than the first (I was awake this time), I still HATED feeling them yanking around inside me. During the surgery I wanted to crawl out of myself just to get away from those sensations. But I love my babies. I want more of my babies. I want to feel pregnancy again.

A big part of my anger is internalized. I think I am mad at my body for failing me in all three of my births. In the first one, it birthed naturally but way too early. And then, carrying to term, it won't let go. WTH???

Now, I know this post is dark, and I promise I'm not focusing on this all the time, I actually do have good hours and sometimes days.  I just feel very violated. TMI, but dh and I have not been intimate since the birth because I am TERRIFIED of getting pregnant. My dh is confused. And hurt. We had a long talk a couple days ago and he told me that my behavior reminded him of a past girlfriend he had who had been raped.  This really, really sucks, sometimes.

And I feel that many people who haven't btdt don't get it. They either blame me (went in too early, didn't try enough positions) or think I 'cheated'.

Ami


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Ami...I'm off to bed in just a minute, and can't stay online long. I just wanted to say that I hear you. I did end up having multiple sections (five) and it was just as scary (in some ways, even scarier) the last time as it was the first time. I'm 18 months out from my last one - and it's my last one, as I also had a tubal - and I'm not "over it"...and it's harder than ever to talk about, because people think I should be. I'm done, right? I "chose" the last one, right? What's the issue, anyway? *sigh*

I wish I had something to say that would help, but I really don't. When a c-section is traumatic, it's traumatic. And, facing more of them, after having a bad experience, is really, really, really hard. I feel for you about maybe not having any more kids, and I feel for you about your sex life (my issues weren't exactly the same, but there have definitely been some screwy sexual issues from the c-section).

I'm sorry you're going through this.


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## Canadianne (Jul 14, 2010)

Many hugs, Ami.

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I don't have any wise words to say that will make everything better but I can offer my support as someone who is going through similar emotions. I hate that I am afraid to get pregnant again and the impact that this fear has on my life. I hate when strangers tell me that "two is better" because they have no idea what I went through. I especially hate when friends tell me that "two is better" because they do know what I went through.

As for me, I thought I had processed the fact that I had a section and that it went so poorly. Now I'm realizing that my difficulties connecting with my son are likely a direct result of the fact that his birth was so hard for me. I remember being pregnant and I remember holding my son hours after the surgery. What I don't remember is how he got from my belly to my arms and I'm finding that hard to deal with these days.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

*many hugs* Ami! I know that I was/still am a bit in the place you are with the fear of getting pregnant. There is no joy if I would get a BFP, fear would be the first thing which sets in. Are you able to talk with your doula at all and see if there are any local c/s support groups? I found myself healing with these women in person so much more because there was no judgement, because we were all in the same boat. And our doula was great, because she never plays the blame game or if she does its not with us as people trying to heal.










FYI - I had a recent chat with my OBGYN and asked about his thoughts on a possible VBA2C. He was honest with me (thought I would have little success), but that I handled TOL and everything else like a champ and little scarring and adhesion etc. He stated he would be more than happy to take that journey with me for a 3rd TOL. That was a huge thing for me because I value his opinion greatly since this MD has been very (almost brutally) honest with me from day 1.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Ami. I'm sorry you're having a rough time. I'm glad you're doing better, I think recovery has high points and low points. I hope this low point passes soon for you.

ktg, I'm glad your OB is willing to take you on. My OB was also always very honest, which to some people is "unsupportive," but I'd rather have brutal honesty than sugar-coated half-truths, ya know?


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Ami

Much love sent your way. Sometimes I think that Iwould be better off not knowing that birth can be beautiful and then i wouldn't be so pissed off that mine was everthing but beautiful. You really are doing a great job working through this. At the end your babies will have a complete mama who truly is honest with herself and can raise them to know the real vaule of working through hard times.


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

No time to post but wanting to give lots of hugs. We are so strong.


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Ami...I'm off to bed in just a minute, and can't stay online long. I just wanted to say that I hear you. I did end up having multiple sections (five) and it was just as scary (in some ways, even scarier) the last time as it was the first time. I'm 18 months out from my last one - and it's my last one, as I also had a tubal - and I'm not "over it"...and it's harder than ever to talk about, because people think I should be. I'm done, right? I "chose" the last one, right? What's the issue, anyway? *sigh*
> 
> ...










I wonder if we can ever really be 'okay' with it. If there is a way or a time during which we will have fully processed it and it won't remain a trigger. And I totally get that others around don't understand. My husband told me he doesn't feel done. Period. Great. Increase my anxiety. At least, if we were both unsure, I wouldn't feel that pressure, kwim? And others wonder why I went through such a horrible panic cycle. I mean, it's 'just' a c/s. It shouldn't be causing PTSD. One psychiatrist even told me, after listening to my symptoms, that it sounded like I had PTSD, but I couldn't have that, because I haven't been in combat! Needless to say, I dropped her.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canadianne*
> 
> Many hugs, Ami.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry, Canadianne. I felt that way after my first c/s. I had to be completely put under, and I didn't see ds until 24hrs later. I barely remembered the first 12hrs post op. Looking back, I am sure I had PPD. It is much more common among c/s moms. This time around, I have PPD really bad, which I chalk up to a much more traumatizing birth experience. Now that I've gotten help for it, I find that my bond with both boys is getting better. I started to feel that same disconnect with Elias, but now with early treatment I feel really bonded to him. It took much longer with my first son. I did lots and lots and lots of skin to skin contact. That and nursing really helped me connect to him. It's hard to admit, but for a long while, I wondered if he was even my baby, because I wouldn't have been able to pick him out of a bunch of babies. He knew me though. So, at least, if I didn't know, he did.

I think it's hard for those who know what happened to really grasp it. Unless you've had a c/s, unless you've had your uterus tear as you did, one doesn't really get it. At least, that's the nicest interpretation I can think of. It hurts too, because, for me, I would love to have lots more kids. I love my children, I'd love to have more. The only thing stopping me is undergoing that horrible, scary birth experience again. And, in a way, it's not fair. And really, really hard.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_ktg_*
> 
> *many hugs* Ami! I know that I was/still am a bit in the place you are with the fear of getting pregnant. There is no joy if I would get a BFP, fear would be the first thing which sets in. Are you able to talk with your doula at all and see if there are any local c/s support groups? I found myself healing with these women in person so much more because there was no judgement, because we were all in the same boat. And our doula was great, because she never plays the blame game or if she does its not with us as people trying to heal.
> 
> ...


There's an ICAN, but I'm trying to get control of my anxiety before going there again. So far, my anxiety is lessening, but hearing certain things/seeing certain things/smelling certain things triggers me. This past Friday I took my mom to the hospital because she wasn't feeling well. As we walked in, the smell of the hand sanitizer they use hit me...and took me right back into that L&D room. I was able to breathe through that attack, and after talking about it over and over and over again with friends and family, I've gotten rid of that 'shaky' feeling.

I think I'm in the anger phase of grieving. I'm angry that what should be a joyful occasion (BFP) will be a scary one. I'm afraid of being afraid the entire pregnancy. It's not like, halfway through, I can decide to get off that train, kwim?

I also like the sound of your OB. The ones here weren't happy to give me a VBAC try, so forget VBA2C. From everything the surgeon said though (no rupture, uterus perfect, etc) I don't think it should be a problem. What I'm worried about is the 'what if'. What if it ends in a c/s again? I think the only way I would be completely comfy with another pregnancy is if I could somehow let go of this fear of c/s that I have. But, then again, how does one get over the fear of feeling people tugging on your insides? Of the smells? Of lying there, completely helpless for half an hour or even LONGER. Ugh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CherryBomb*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It has passed, for now. I think I'm processing through everything, still in the anger phase of grief. This second c/s brought up a lot of undealt with issues from my other two births. It also brought up some new things as well. I just wish I could reach that magical zen place where I am okay with what happened and okay with whatever will happen in regards to possible future births. And if it could happen in, say, 2 days time, I'd really love that!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AustinMom*
> 
> Ami
> 
> Much love sent your way. Sometimes I think that Iwould be better off not knowing that birth can be beautiful and then i wouldn't be so pissed off that mine was everthing but beautiful. You really are doing a great job working through this. At the end your babies will have a complete mama who truly is honest with herself and can raise them to know the real vaule of working through hard times.


Thank you! I totally get what you are saying. It's even harder listening to others' 'perfect' birth stories. One woman was saying how her labor was 'whatever'. She went in at 5cm, had an epi, then she watched tv until they told her to push. Gah, why can't I at least be like THAT????

And I worry what I will tell my boys when they ask about their births. How do I tell it to them without all of my baggage? I don't want them to be scared of birth, either, but I don't want to completely 'normalize' the experience either. Have you thought about any of this/reached any conclusions?

Ami


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## whoami (Nov 24, 2009)

I stumbled upon this thread while searching for something else and I am so glad I found it. I'm scheduled for my cs this Friday and I am terrified. My last pregnancy ended with an emergency cs after 3 days of laboring. I was up a full 24 hours by the time 4 am rolled around and I was told it basically needed to be done or baby could die. I was completely distraut and just wailing like a baby, and then my honey, sister, mom and mil all were in tears feeling so powerless and in pain for me. I was naive and believed my ob when she said there was no way I'd end up with a cs, which I openly told her was my biggest fear. I'm still not okay with having it done but I know I can't go through with a similar situation happening again and have accepted it for what it is.I just pray baby is okay and that I will handle it okay without hyperventilating and having a major panic attack.


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## Canadianne (Jul 14, 2010)

Thank you for the kind words, Ami. It has been a long road for me and my son but I feel like we have finally hit our groove. One of the hardest things, as you said, is that people who haven't experienced it don't get it. No one understands how your emotional connection with your child can be effected by a difficult birth experience unless they have looked at their son and wondered if he was theirs because they have no memory of his birth. People can offer sympathy, and I appreciate people when they do, but empathy is another thing altogether. That's why I appreciate this board so much.

I'm very fortunate that my husband lets me talk things through as much as I need to. I've also been watched very closely by my husband and my Doctor for any signs of PPD because they both recognize that it is a distinct possibility for me. I had never thought about PPD being more common in mama's who have sections but it makes a lot of sense.

If it is any consolation to you as you process your grief, please know that your insight and understanding regarding c-sections has helped me considerably as I walk my own road. I'm very grateful to you for being so open and honest. 

*Whoami*, I'll be thinking of you as your c-section date approaches. The one benefit that I can think of for this scheduled section is that at least you will go into it well-rested. A c-section after 3-4 days of labouring is horrible, plain and simple.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Ami-

When it come to telling your kids about birth, I think you should be very honest with them on how you view birth. For me, I plan on telling them that Birth is beautiful. It's a process of the beginning of one's life into the world and the beginning of a couples (usually, if not, a mother's) life as parents. The first moments that the two people meet. It's wonderful, powerful, and eventful no matter how you slice it. There are safe ways to go about it and those should always be taken into consideration, and when the choice is given it's best to choose the safest choice available. For me, I wanted the easiest birth for my babies and tried to give each of you that, only I wasn't given a typical hand of cards when it came to birth. It is risky to go through interventions, for safety and emotional reasons, so it's best to avoid them when possible. Sometimes it's not possible. Y'all's births were very hard on me, and I wanted a better start to y'all's lives and I hope my grandkids have a better start. You will always remember when you gave birth. Those moments will always be in your mind, and in your heart and part of your life, either positive or negative. More importantly, they will always be part of the baby's life. Have a good support system and be well educated on your options and know what your options are.


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## whoami (Nov 24, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canadianne*
> 
> *Whoami*, I'll be thinking of you as your c-section date approaches. The one benefit that I can think of for this scheduled section is that at least you will go into it well-rested. A c-section after 3-4 days of labouring is horrible, plain and simple.


Thank you for keeping me in your thoughts. It will for sure be 100% better this time around.

Random questions, anyone know what causes the shakes afterwards? Perhaps the anesthesia? Also, still need to decide on epidural or spinal. I have a super low pain tolerance and don't want to have any pain while I am in the hospital. Right now I have down on my plan that I would like an epidural with continued pain relief with a PCAP. Not having a catheter in is appealing though, just worry about pain management afterwards. They started me with ibuprofen last time and that did not cut it and I was in so much pain until they gave me a shot in the bumm.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

I thought you had to have a cathater? I've never had the spinal so I can't say. I will say that I felt a lot of the surgery on my second CS, I think that was due to me not being calm and relaxed. I would say do some yogic deep relaxation before you go in and really focus on positive warm thoughts during the surgery. After wards, why didn't they give you Vicodin? I had that with both. I though had referred pain and gas built up that went towards my shoulder after the surgery and nothing touched that. Also, maybe look into a belly binder for immediately after?


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JTA Mom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Our culture is so inconsistent about this. On the one hand, we treat childbirth as the worst, scariest, most horrifying thing that can ever happen to a woman...we're expected to feel as though our lives are in imminent danger and the lives of our babies are in imminent danger. We're in pain (usually), exhausted, etc. We're encouraged to feel powerless! But, after all that, if we experience trauma or major negative emotional reactions, we're treated as though we're being over the top! No. I haven't been in combat. I have been in situations where I was in great pain, my life and my baby's life were in danger, as far as I knew, and I had no say over what was happening to me (first c/s was done while I was saying "no"), so I felt trapped. Those sound like a lot of the components of combat that result in PTSD to me. For someone - especially a psychiatrist!! - to say you couldn't have PTSD because you haven't been in combat makes about as much sense as me saying that a combat vet with no physical injuries can't have PTSD, because he/she doesn't have any physical scars. Sheer incompetence.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whoami*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


When I started shaking post-op, one of my nurses told me it was shock (as we have been cut open, after all, even if we can't feel it!). I've also been told it's a reaction to the anesthesia. Someone else told me that it's from being in the cold OR. So, I don't know what really causes it, but both shock and anesthesia reaction sound possible to me.

I have no advice re: spinal vs. epidural. I've only had general anesthesia or a spinal. I, personally, would never want an epi for post-op pain management, because I have extremely low tolerance (psychologically) for knowing something is stuck in my spine. That would wig me out really badly. If I were really worried about pain management, I'd still probably opt for the spinal and oral meds for the pain (at my hospital, they usually use a combo of Tylenol 3s and Voltaren, which is an anti-inflammatory). But, I opted for a PCA (patient controlled analgesia) pump with my last one, because I hate pain meds, and only used them when I really needed them (either so I could go to sleep, or the first time I knew I'd be getting out of bed).


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

I totally agree. I think our mainstream society says, "You are going to be waiting for something bad to happen." and if something DOES happen that is scary, you are told "It's just having a baby (even if it was MAJOR surgery) women do it all the time, what's the bid deal?" Or worse, they just say "Having a baby is really dangerous, and if you experience danger, we want to hear that you did, but don't want to hear about how it's effected you."

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Our culture is so inconsistent about this. On the one hand, we treat childbirth as the worst, scariest, most horrifying thing that can ever happen to a woman...we're expected to feel as though our lives are in imminent danger and the lives of our babies are in imminent danger. We're in pain (usually), exhausted, etc. We're encouraged to feel powerless! But, after all that, if we experience trauma or major negative emotional reactions, we're treated as though we're being over the top! No. I haven't been in combat. I have been in situations where I was in great pain, my life and my baby's life were in danger, as far as I knew, and I had no say over what was happening to me (first c/s was done while I was saying "no"), so I felt trapped. Those sound like a lot of the components of combat that result in PTSD to me. For someone - especially a psychiatrist!! - to say you couldn't have PTSD because you haven't been in combat makes about as much sense as me saying that a combat vet with no physical injuries can't have PTSD, because he/she doesn't have any physical scars. Sheer incompetence.


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## matty02 (Nov 8, 2010)

I know after my first c/s I felt depressed and then angry. I was angry at my midwife for not detecting pre-eclamsia. I was angry that she let my go 7 1/2 hours of pushing. I was angry that I couldn't have the birth I envisioned and that all my dreams of a beautiful birth was dashed. I was depressed that my baby wouldn't latch on (eventually he did) and that I had a big scar. I was depressed and mad at a lot of things. It took me having a failed VBAC with my DD to realize that I had to let go and it wasn't my fault (I have a strange shaped pelvis that will not allow babies to turn their heads). Healing after my DD's c/s was much easier because I was at peace that I did all I could. I healed a lot from having her and I am prepared to have a c/s with baby due in July.

I agree that can be traumatic to have an unexpected and unwanted c/s. It is major surgery during a very emotionally charged time in a woman's life!

I was told the shaking is anesthesia too. Also I was given a spinal with each c/s (no choice for epidural) and was given morphine drip after for the pain.


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## LisaG (Feb 23, 2003)

Spinal vs. Epidural - I had a spinal, I also had a catheter (I would expect they'd give you a catheter for either). Here's what my doc said re: spinal vs. epi - the needle for the epi is larger and if they do puncture the dura you'll be more likely to get a spinal headache from that. The needle with a spinal is a finer needle and therefore less likely to cause a spinal headache even though they do go through the dura. A spinal headache is caused by leaking of cerebrospinal fluid. CSF helps keep your brain bouyant, when you don't have enough (as with a leak), it can give you a wicked headache.

With the spinal they gave me some kind of post surgery pain meds in the spinal. I then had pain meds administered through my IV once I got into my regular room. My pain was very well managed - no complaints.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LisaG*
> 
> With the spinal they gave me some kind of post surgery pain meds in the spinal. I then had pain meds administered through my IV once I got into my regular room. My pain was very well managed - no complaints.


Oh, right - I forgot about the post-op meds they administer in OR. I refused them last time, because I've had them before and they make me itch and I just go nuts with it. I'd rather deal with the (admittedly quite awful) pain than with that itching.


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## Canadianne (Jul 14, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Oh, right - I forgot about the post-op meds they administer in OR. I refused them last time, because I've had them before and they make me itch and I just go nuts with it. I'd rather deal with the (admittedly quite awful) pain than with that itching.


Well this clears up why the anesthesiologist kept asking if I was itchy. I never was and he was always really surprised.

I was never told about any post-op meds except for the Advil and Tylenol that I took by mouth. Once I was out of the recovery room I was only given antibiotics and saline via the i.v. Oddly enough, I never really experienced much pain. I'll count that as a blessing.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canadianne*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Yes. The itching is apparently very common. Sometimes, people take an antihistamine to offset it, but I've never cared for the "take a med, then take another med to counter the side effects of the first med, then take another med, etc." approach. My late grandmother was on about 5-6 medications, and they were largely for the purpose of countering the side effects of the other medications. Yuck!

I was given a suppository (Voltaren) in OR, and they didn't tell me about it. It's no a painkiller, as such - it's an anti-inflammatory. But, the last time I was in, they gave me oral doses of it, which I much preferred to the suppositories. I really prefer to know what I'm taking, yk? It kind of creeped me out to know they'd given that to me and I hadn't even known about it.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Just checking in to see if everyone is doing ok and if Whoami had her baby! I hope you did and are enjoying your babymoon comfortably and had a relatively less stressful c/s


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> When I started shaking post-op, one of my nurses told me it was shock (as we have been cut open, after all, even if we can't feel it!). I've also been told it's a reaction to the anesthesia. Someone else told me that it's from being in the cold OR. So, I don't know what really causes it, but both shock and anesthesia reaction sound possible to me.


I was shaking during the section, and was told that it was shock. It was also really cold in there, and the anesthesiologist was putting warm blankets on my arms and chest. Given the emergency nature and the PTSD-type symptoms I had afterwards, I lean towards shock. But anesthesia reaction seems reasonable too.


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Sorry that I'm not replying to everyone; I am sending you all hugs and empathy.

JTA'smom, I too had PTSD without a doubt. The flashbacks, the shock-like feeling that you slip in to, the triggers to be avoided. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It took me about a year before I wasn't back in the OR (in my mind/body) at least once a week. I'm so sorry that that doc said that to you. My DH is a combat veteran and I can tell you it isn't one bit different.

Hugs all around.


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

I just stumbled upon a product online randomly that claims to really work to heal up c section scars- it claims to make the scars much less colored and much softer and less visable. I am wondering if anyone knows anything about it? It is some silicone sheets and it is called scar away sheets. It got good reviews on amazon. My c section scar really does not bother me much! But it is kind of purple! I wonder if I might some day try out those scar away things to lessen the scar. Anyone ever used them?


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Never heard of them, but it's worth a shot, especially if they don't have any risks to them.

I'm doing well, thought I'd check stop in. I'm going through a lot of therapy now for the sexual abuse that I went through when I was a kid, and feel that has a lot to do with why my labors, birth, and CSs were so hard on me emotionally which is why I feel they ended in CS. It's really helping, and really helping with everything. It's costing an arm and leg, especially while paying off the CS, but it's worth it. I feel whole again.

I also, wanted to say that I had an AMAZING 1 day get-away a few weeks ago. I went to a hotel, by myself, after dinner on Friday night, had wine and cheesecake, got up the next morning (without being woken) went to the spa (had a gift certificate) and got a massage and pedicure, and spent my entire 2 hour lunch journaling about everything. It really did help. I feel much stronger now.

I've also really started my Doula practice as well, really looking forward to launching that this year.

Hope everyone is well!


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## greenmulberry (Jan 11, 2009)

Introducing myself. I had a c section after 40 hours of trying to induce, on 2/11. As my contractions picked up, her heart rate declined significantly.

The surgery actually went very well, and I felt very supported by the surgical team who were very compassionate.

To be honest, I struggle with feeling like a failure in the eyes of the natural birth/parenting community. I keep reading my breastfeeding/parenting books and so many sections seem to start out: 'assuming you had a drug free natural labor, you baby will be, bla bla bla." Nobody writes naturally minded advice for moms who have had a section. I also feel like my Bradley class set me up to feel like a failure for how things ended up.

Anyway, I do have a question. I have been off pain meds except tylenol for two days. surgery was 2/11. Do you think it is OK to have one glass of wine??? I could really use it.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Greenmulberry-

I don't know about the meds. I do know that 2-3 drinks is dangerous if you are taking tylenol, but maybe if you switch to mortrin and have just one drink you would be okay? I'd call your family practitioner and ask. I'm sure a nurse could answer that in the office on the phone. 

I think you are very right. I think birth advocates need more understand and training in how to help a mom who didn't have a natural birth. I think the fear is that it will not encourage moms to have a natural birth, or it's won't be as discouraging to have a medicated birth. I think this is wrong, and I think as a whole we need to be better at helping moms in that grey area. I hear this from a lot of moms, and I both times was that mom. I planned an out of hospital birth both times and ended up with a cesarean. I think the lack of support I had in coping with that lead me to feel I was a failure because I didn't/couldn't birth 'normally' in everyone else's eyes. As a birth professional, thanks for this reminder, it's easy to forget.  
It may help to make a list of all the things you did on your own. Like if you went into labor on your own, how you coped with contractions, things you did to speed labor, what tools you used, if your water broke on it's own, how many cm you dilated, how much you effaced, how far the baby descended. It may be hard to see how great these are but try and look at them positively that you worked with your body the best you could with the situation that presented itself. I think people talk a lot about surrendering and letting birth happen, and they say this in context of opening up to speed labor and dilate, but I don't think every birth unfolds that way. I think sometimes we need to surrender that some things are truly out of our control and we can't and couldn't change them. That's the truth, and it does happen. I think it's what we learn from our births that is really important. Of course, it's easy to see how strong you are when you have an amazing empowering vaginal birth, but it's much harder to see how strong you are when you undergo major abdominal surgery, cope with loss, heal, recovery, and reflect. That to me, is much harder physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually than a easy vaginal birth.

You are so strong.


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## hasya (Jun 27, 2010)

Quote:


> Oh, and those people saying I 'cheated' or got the easy way out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You said it! Oh no, add the 9 months of pregnancy before it, with its nausea, hip pains, SPD, water retention, weight gain in weird places (I am not complaining because of aesthetics; gaining weight HURTS). Oh and add an infant who only wants to be with you. I love having my baby with me all the time, but hands do hurt, regardless, you know. Don't get me wrong. I will do it again in a heartbeat if I weren't hoping for a VBAC next. But sometimes I think that I should go ahead and plan another pg and have a scheduled c-section done. Known beast, unknown beauty(?)... take your pick....


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## hasya (Jun 27, 2010)

Greenmulberry, I wouldn't drink wine at this time.

Reading this thread crystallized some things in my head. I had an unplanned c-section because of fetal distress 9 months ago and feelings of failure...you know the picture.

We as mothers are very strong. We do what it takes to keep our babies safe.Even if it means throwing our belief systems straight off a cliff.


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## mybest (May 10, 2010)

I'm new to this thread but not this subject I'm going on my fourth c/s in a few months. Trust me if I could change things I would. I have assisted at home-births and they are so special. I always dreamed that I would be able to do that too. It was a hard reality to face when I was told that I simply cannot due to a structural issue with my spine and hips...I'm defective, or that is how I felt.

Its hard because I feel I got heat from both sides of the argument. I had my doc. saying it was dangerous to even think vbac. I had others saying that I should have done it anyway. I did feel broken, and like a wimp, but also like I had missed out on a part of motherhood that I would now never get to have. I had those well meaning friends who would say things like "that's horrible" or "I'm so sorry". I felt like in some of my peer groups I had become a sort of sad second class mother. And worse was when I was treated as if I had somehow taken the easy way out. EASY!!! Do you know how I have watched other mothers who can seemingly just hop up shortly after birth to care for their baby, and shower, and use the bathroom. I have envied those who don't have to have everything handed to them or done for them. Who don't have to be on pain meds for weeks and who haven't had the number of children they can have be decreased by a scar that runs across their belly. There is NOTHING easy about a c/s!!

I have gone through hating myself, and depression and guilt over this but I have come out the other side and here is what I have realized...

I will always wish deep down that I had been able to deliver on my own, but I have three healthy, funny, energetic little children who are at the moment playing knights and dragons at my feet. I care less about how they got here and more that they ARE here and will soon be joined by another. I look at them and think how once I was told I would never even have children . I have decided that regret is no place to live, especially when I AM SO BLESSED!

I also know how long it took me to reach this point and I just hope I can help others.

For all you Mamma's who are about to have a c/s I can give you a list of things that will help things go more smoothly. They are my own little helpers and they have worked for me. I'm no specially trained coach, but I have been through it and am about to do it again, so maybe at least one of my suggestions will help one of you.


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## SundayForever (Feb 25, 2011)

I think you are very right. I think birth advocates need more understand and training in how to help a mom who didn't have a natural birth. I think the fear is that it will not encourage moms to have a natural birth, or it's won't be as discouraging to have a medicated birth. I think this is wrong, and I think as a whole we need to be better at helping moms in that grey area. I hear this from a lot of moms, and I both times was that mom. I planned an out of hospital birth both times and ended up with a cesarean. I think the lack of support I had in coping with that lead me to feel I was a failure because I didn't/couldn't birth 'normally' in everyone else's eyes. As a birth professional, thanks for this reminder, it's easy to forget.


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## karen1968 (Oct 2, 2006)

Hey, Sunday, you can't advertise on here. Please delete that part of your post.


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Just wanted to check in and say "hi." I'm still following the thread, but I'm finally in a place where I feel okay about DD's birth and am looking forward to the opportunity to try for a VBAC (someday). The lingering difficulty for me is when others' babies are born--my neighbor who pushed her first baby out after 2 hours of labor; her second (recently) after 20 minutes. My cousin who just had a routine elective c-section because "the baby was going to be over 9 lbs.".... I have some sadness there. But the pain is fading, I think.

Sending everyone healing vibes.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

I'm really teaching myself to detach from others' choices and experiences. I feel sad for women who are lead to believe inaccurate things like 'big baby' 'small pelvis', etc. with out them being based on facts. So I feel sad for them, and for their babies, and I think that's okay, it's a sad thing to me, and I can feels sad without thinking 'I'm not right inside, I still have to heal'. I feel extremely happy that some women are able to push their babies out with a sneeze, I am not one of those women. I used to be jealous, mainly because I wished so much that I was them. BUT, having gone through the very hard work of labor with both of mine, I see now what I have learned about myself, and I still have never exerted myself more physically, emotionally, spiritual, mentally, etc than I did in labor with my babies. I love that I did the best I could, and I think every mom truly does, even if what she had/has was very little.


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## Jane93 (Mar 3, 2011)

Hanging out on these forums was starting to make me feel negatively about my choice to have a c-section.

However, doing additional research has reminded me that my c-section was the best option for me.

My manifesto:

As for myself, I refuse to fetish-ize the process of birth -- my result of beautiful, healthy twin girls outweighs by a thousand pounds the feather of the birth process itself on the other side of life's scale.

I don't need to give birth vaginally to feel empowered -- I have been and continued to be empowered in my day to day life by the choices I have made and the way I live my life.

I am not defective, abnormal or unnatural. Instead, I have used humankind's most natural gifts -- our intelligence, our ability to weigh risks and outcomes, our ability to use logic and our inventiveness to ensure the best outcome for myself and my babies.

I am not less of a woman for not having birthed vaginally. Neither are women who are infertile or who choose not to have children.

And yes, when my babies were born it was THEIR birth, the only one they get, not MY birth. They will have to live with the outcome of their birth experience for the whole of their lives, so I think they get to claim ownership of that day.


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## Jane93 (Mar 3, 2011)

Oh! Forgot two:

My bond with my children is not somehow less intense because I gave birth vaginally versus c-section.

My children are not somehow "lesser than" children that were born vaginally.

These are all thing natural childbirth advocates like to imply -- after all, they're selling a product too.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jane93*
> 
> Hanging out on these forums was starting to make me feel negatively about my choice to have a c-section.
> 
> ...


Um, I just want to say few things. I don't think it's a fetish for women to want a vaginal birth. Especially if a woman has undergone complications with her previous pregnancies and births-of her children. Or if she has sexual or physical abuse, a vaginal birth could be easier for her to deal with than surgery. Or maybe she just want to work with her body. I don't think any mom would say 'I want a vaginal birth even if it means an unhealthy or unhappy baby or mom'. I think they feel if I can have a vaginal birth AND a happy healthy mom and baby, yeah, let's do that.

I do think more women should feel empowered by birth, regardless of the method, vaginal or CS. I think sometimes BOTH can be very disempowering and traumatizing, but with a cesarean, it's more feasible that a mom would feel like she isn't able to be in control during a CS, simply because it's not her doing it.

If it was less risky for you or your babies to have a CS, great, I'm very glad that it is here for you. No one argues or disputes that. If you feel good with your choice, great, that's all that matters-if all are healthy, no one has regrets. I don't think in your case defective is the situation. Some moms feel that if their pelvis is 'too small' or that they are physically unable to birth, the feel like they are, and that is ok, and that's that woman's process to work through. No woman is defective in my opinion. None.

I think it IS a mother's birth as well. The mom and baby share that experience. The baby is born and the mother does the birthing, and she is born (even if it's for the 14th time) into a mother. And I also know that the way a mother goes through that process, she is effected for the rest of her life from then on as well. I'm glad the effect your CS was not that of trauma and you aren't having to deal with those feelings.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jane93*
> 
> Oh! Forgot two:
> 
> ...


Some women simply are not bonded or don't feel connected with their babies after a CS. Some even after a vaginal birth. Some even after an epidural. Some even if the baby was taken away for a period of time directly after birth. They've done studies on sheep, mice and other mammals and when events such as these take place (epidurals with sheep, separation with mice) the mother's ARE disconnects and simply don't tend to their babies at all. We can't deny that this doesn't happen in the human race, and I hope you are not doing that, but hope you are simply stating that you don't struggle with disconnect with your babies. I'm very glad if you don't, as it's a very very hard thing for a mother (and baby mostly) to go through, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I don't think children are 'lesser' because they are born via CS and not vaginally, but some babies do struggle more due to this. A lot of babies, and of those babies, we will never know if they would have been better as a vaginal birth than a CS. Or worse. But, we DO know that statistically, generally, babies born by CS are at risk for more complications.

I do you can be respectful of those mothers who are not as well off emotionally as you are. I don't think anyone on this thread has stated any of the things you have mentioned as facts, but emotions the are working through. They are REAL things to feel and think and REALLY scary most of the time. I do know that no one has said any of these things about other women or other babies, but 'I wish I didn't struggle like other women who feel______'.

Please be respectful.


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## Jane93 (Mar 3, 2011)

I think everything I wrote was qualified by the "I" statement.

However, I do get angry that certain advocates, with a particular agenda, seem to intent on reframing the discussion around birth so only one way is the perfect, ideal way, and all the rest are just substandard. And if you don't feel your "not perfect" birth was substandard or you're not traumatized by the whole thing, then there's something else wrong with you (not sensitive or in tune enough, or what have you).

I mean, some of things are ridiculous, like someone claiming their c-section kid won't go through doors backwards. What the heck??


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jane93*
> 
> I think everything I wrote was qualified by the "I" statement.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you are speaking from a place where you specifically are at and not where everyone else should be at. I think that is so great for you. I really do, many women strive to be there and it's nice sometimes for some to see that it doesn't always have to be traumatic to have a cesarean. I think that every mother has the birth she was supposed to have. Yes, even me, read my story and you'll better understand where I'm coming from. The first time a woman told me that I thought she was nuts, rude, and uncompassionate. Now, seeing what I have learned from my birth, I am glad that I had the trauma that I had. Do I wish it would have been an easier lesson, or that I could have learned it more simply, sure. But I know it took what I went through to learn and am glad I am where I am now. I'm glad you didn't have a crazy journey like that.  There is such thing as a perfect birth. There is. I think it's different for every mom, and no mother can really plan for it and get it exactly as she planned. It will unfold the way it is best for her. This could be a mom who planned a home birth and ended up with a scheduled CS. It can still be perfect and a mother can walk away from it still feeling whole and not violated. I think this is where many women struggle when the come from a traumatic birth. They want to know why it hurt, does it have to again, what can they do to heal and make it not hurt? I think it only sometimes has to do with the birth itself and usually more with deeper issues. That's just my opinion and what does happen to fit with me.

I think that it's very rude of anyone to imply that if you weren't traumatized by your CS then there is something wrong with you. I know why I was traumatized by mine, and I know not every woman has the issues I do. I DO think that there are some women who do deny that their CS was negative. I DON'T think that's every mom who has had a CS.

I don't understand the door thing. I don't see how it's related to the baby being born by CS. I'm not sure where you heard that, but I do hope that mom and child are supported.


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## lsmama (May 27, 2009)

Hi all. I am facing the likely possibility of a c/S later this week, and I have found great insights on this thread. My firs baby was born vaginally though she had a pretty bad shoulder dystocia though no negative impact from it, thank g-d! This time, I am late, my baby is bigger than my last, and my midwife is starting to panic a bit about a repeat shoulder. I think I've made my peace with going the c/s route because man that shoulder was scary! While intellectually, I am feeling ok about this choice, I do find myself mourning the experience I had hoped to have.

Mybest - you had posted about a list of things you found helpful, but I couldn't find it. If the list was taken down b/c it was construed as advertising, could you pm me?

Thanks to all of you for sharing your journeys. Wishing you all much peace & healing!


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## Jane93 (Mar 3, 2011)

"There is such thing as a perfect birth. There is. I think it's different for every mom, and no mother can really plan for it and get it exactly as she planned. It will unfold the way it is best for her. "

I do feel that some are setting up some kind of "idealized birth experience" which is supposed to be the perfect birth for everyone and we're all supposed to feel bad if we don't get that experience (along with the "perfect" wedding, the "perfect" house, the "perfect" job, etc., etc.) I think the idea that there is some master plan where birth unfolds in the way best for you is setting oneself up for disappointment, as well as harmful to all the women who have serious medical issues around their pregnancies (prematurity, placental problems, etc.)

I have heard the wackiest things made up by natural childbirth advocates about kids born by c-section or with epidural. Not going through a door backwards is one of the less insidious. How about the claim that kids born to moms who have an epi are more likely to become drug addicts when they're older? Buncha BS, but nothing like guilting a mom into having the birth that your philosophy thinks is right.


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## MoonStarFalling (Nov 4, 2004)

I have a friend who had her cs about 5 months ago and she's experiencing some pain above her scar with brown spotting (both relating to heavy activity and intercourse). What do you think? Is this a scar tissue thing?


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## Aliy (Jun 1, 2010)

Hi.... I'm 4 days post op closing in on 5 here soon. I was feeling pretty good but now I feel like a ballon. my hips are killing me my left sacrum is not moving. DH wonders if i still have some spinal left in my lower back. feels numb and sore and swollen.

my c-section was and emergency one that i'm still feeling pretty numb to. if you'd like more details check my birth story post in March due date club 2011 Cael William


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

I think the attitude and kindness factor of the birth attendants is such a huge factor in if the birth feels traumatic to the mom or not. I have been reading lots of birth stories on mdc tonight and thinking of my own- mine was supposed to be a homebirth but ended up c section. I had a very unsupportive midwife who I ended up really not liking one bit when all was said and done.more than not liking- I actually found her to be Awful to me. but in the end, the ob and nurses who attended me in the hospital were, ironically, really kind and wonderful and gentle. so even tho I had a c section, when I look at the actual experience it doesn't feel so traumatic because of how respectful and kind the hospital folks were to me. Just had to put that out there because I am thinking a lot about it tonight. I just feel very grateful that even tho my whole birth experience was difficult and far from the idealistic homebirth I had thought I would have, the kindness of the nurses and doctor, just by chance of who was on call that day, made the biggest difference in how I think of my birth. I have experienced many insensative doctors- downright mean really, in my life- and had one of those been the ones I ended up with, it would have been a whole different story. When I read some of the birth trauma stories, so many of them have those types of thoughtless doctors or nurses at the center of them. I am grateful for the surprising kindness with which I was treated.


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## SeattleMolly (Oct 23, 2010)

I found out this week that baby is still breech at 37 weeks (after trying chiro, acupuncture, moxa, positions, sounds, prayer) and I have a uterine synechia and a few other issues that are contraindications for an external version. My midwives suggested I transfer care to an O.B. No one in my area delivers breech babies, especially with my baby in a difficult breech position (on his knees).

I had planned on a home birth, but unless baby finds a way around my band of scar tissue in the next couple weeks, I will birth him surgically.

I have to say that I am a little disappointed of the complicated nature of this, but I am embracing the birth that will be mine. I have no feelings of being "less than," no feelings of being lied to by the medical community, and no negative feelings at all. I'm happy to welcome my baby in the way that is safest.

It seems as though the natural birth community (which I am very much a part of) doesn't deal well with the variations of birth. There is so much guilt and disappointment, I almost feel like I'm supposed to be depressed at this turn in my plan. I am not in that space and resent the pervasiveness of this negativity. However, I understand moms who felt like their wishes weren't respected, or they were "talked into" doing something they weren't comfortable with. It is ok to feel however one feels.

If we do the best we are able, amidst trauma and imperfection, our experience can be no less than sacred.


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Aliy* 

Hi.... I'm 4 days post op closing in on 5 here soon. I was feeling pretty good but now I feel like a ballon. my hips are killing me my left sacrum is not moving. DH wonders if i still have some spinal left in my lower back. feels numb and sore and swollen.

my c-section was and emergency one that i'm still feeling pretty numb to. if you'd like more details check my birth story post in March due date club 2011 Cael William








Oh mama, hugs and congrats to you! Get those feet elevated and drink as much water as you can. (Of course you know that already, but I had to say it!) I had numbness and pain in my back for several weeks. Not telling you that to scare you, but so that you know that it does happen. I also had the Epi done three times, so that may have been the cause...







I'm sorry that your birth didn't go the way you planned. Please stay here as you heal. And congrats again on your new baby!

Quote:

Originally Posted by *SeattleMolly* 

I found out this week that baby is still breech at 37 weeks (after trying chiro, acupuncture, moxa, positions, sounds, prayer) and I have a uterine synechia and a few other issues that are contraindications for an external version. My midwives suggested I transfer care to an O.B. No one in my area delivers breech babies, especially with my baby in a difficult breech position (on his knees).

I had planned on a home birth, but unless baby finds a way around my band of scar tissue in the next couple weeks, I will birth him surgically.

I have to say that I am a little disappointed of the complicated nature of this, but I am embracing the birth that will be mine. I have no feelings of being "less than," no feelings of being lied to by the medical community, and no negative feelings at all. I'm happy to welcome my baby in the way that is safest.

SeattleMolly, I had a uterine synechiae too! Where is yours? If its going to interfere with the birth, I'm assuming it is lower in the uterus? Mine was along the top righthand side of my uterus, and stretched across from one end of the placenta to the top/middle of the uterus. Sort of like a foot rest for baby. My midwife said that it shouldn't interfere with a natural birth, but something did, as DD was double wrapped and couldn't descend. I know there are not a lot of threads here about it, so I was really confused. The other confusing thing is that I had no history of uterine surgery or D&C, which are common precursors for the synechiae from what I've read. I hope that baby maneuvers himself around it and gets into position so that you can have your homebirth. I'm glad you're at peace with whatever outcome. Hope you have a happy, peaceful rest of your pregnancy. I'd love to hear what happens with the synechiae, too, if you feel like sharing when it's all over. No one could say definitively whether mine contributed to my section or not.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Aliy-Maybe try some teas as well. I am pretty sure that all black teas are diuretics, so they will help to flush out any residual pit or fluids and such. I think, don't quote me, but do google it.  I read your birth story, and I am so sad that you had to have a cesarean reading that you were uneasy with it at first, but am so proud of you for embracing it and still embracing that love that you felt and soaking that up to bond and love on baby Cael. I had a BC birth turned CS and an HBAC turned CBAC and know that it's hard and sometimes scary to move from one environment of peace and comfort and security to a hospital. Hang in there, you are doing great, glad BFing is going well  Much Love to you!

SeattloeMolly-Is it an option to wait till labor to go in for a cesarean. I know with a footling breech, it is riskier, but with a baby on his knees, I'm unsure why you can't wait for that to see if he turns, and to go into labor on your own to make sure that baby is fully developed and bakes as long he/she needs. I know a lot of OBs say 'why delay the inevitable' but I feel there are reasons, and at the very least it will give you a little more hope for a vertex baby, and little more time to process and really make out a CS plan, like baby never leaving the OR, BFing in the OR, wheeling back with baby on your chest to recovery, dad announcing the sex, APGAR testing done with baby on you in the OR, weighing and measuring postponed till you are in your PP room. There is a lot you can do to have an empowering CS. PM me if you want more info, I'd be happy to share with you.  Much Love to you as well!


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

I have a question for you mamas. How have you dealt with other birth practitioners? I ask this because recently on my local ICAN list a doula asked for all moms of successful VBACs to contact her so she can create a booklet to give to moms in a nearby crunchy pregnancy/mom/child center.

I want to email her back and tell her that for the sake of the women reading this, they should also have stories of unsuccessful VBACs. That by talking about it the stigma will be removed. I felt like such a freak/failure for 'failing at birth not once but twice. I really wish our voices weren't silenced like that. Thing is, I'm not sure if I can keep my decorum about it.

Ami


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *JTA Mom*
> 
> I have a question for you mamas. How have you dealt with other birth practitioners? I ask this because recently on my local ICAN list a doula asked for all moms of successful VBACs to contact her so she can create a booklet to give to moms in a nearby crunchy pregnancy/mom/child center.
> 
> ...


Amen







I had a wonderful opportunity to participate in a sharing session hosted by my doula. She specifically wanted me there to share my story of an unsuccessful VBAC, but that you can still have a great birth process despite not getting the ALMIGHTY VBAC.

For those of us who have had multiple c/s - we're not freaks or failures - we're all strong women who all gave birth to our kids. Go for the opportunity and hopefully she'll be willing to have your voice and story to share too!!


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JTA Mom*
> 
> I want to email her back and tell her that for the sake of the women reading this, they should also have stories of unsuccessful VBACs. That by talking about it the stigma will be removed. I felt like such a freak/failure for 'failing at birth not once but twice. I really wish our voices weren't silenced like that. Thing is, I'm not sure if I can keep my decorum about it.
> 
> Ami


Good for you!!! Yes, let her know your perspective. Your voice absolutely should be heard. I totally understand your concern about "keeping your decorum." Perhaps it would be helpful to compose a message that you don't send...where you say things as you would really like to say them! Then tuck it away and compose the more diplomatic message.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_ktg_*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I had to laugh when I saw "ALMIGHTY VBAC." Not to discount the experience of many women who find their VBAC healing, but why is it always presented as the holy grail of c-section healing?? What about those of us who aren't going to give birth more than once? What about women who find that a subsequent c-section can be healing? Or that a successful VBAC can be followed by another c-section? Or that their VBAC, while not traumatic, wasn't "amazing"?? Or that their VBAC was traumatic in a different way than their c-section was???

There are a lot of experiences & stories out there...and all voices should be heard.

The healing is in sharing the story and having it be heard.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

JTA_mom, you're hitting on a HUGE pet peeve of mine, especially with ICAN.  I think it does a huge disservice to moms to present only happy stories, because it gives them the impression that if they just do x,y, and z, everything will be okay. I remember a few years ago ICAN soliciting "success" stories of very long labors (3 or more days) and being really irritated. Yes, sometimes long labors are normal and everything is okay, but sometimes (as with dd2 and me) it's a long labor because something is very wrong. And, as you pointed out, it's hurtful to those of us who did NOT have "successful" vbacs (I ended up with another c/s after my vba2c, so I've been on both sides of that fence) to be repeatedly silenced.

SM, I'm glad you have such a positive outlook. We would like to have an other child (or two...) some day, and when we do, it will be by scheduled c/s (I will NOT be waiting for labor to start). Sure, part of me wishes every one of my births could have been like my easy, natural vba2c, but over all I'm not upset about it, and I resent it when people act like I should be devastated. I respect if that's how other women feel, but I don't, and I wish that were respected, too.


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> I had to laugh when I saw "ALMIGHTY VBAC." Not to discount the experience of many women who find their VBAC healing, but why is it always presented as the holy grail of c-section healing?? What about those of us who aren't going to give birth more than once? What about women who find that a subsequent c-section can be healing? Or that a successful VBAC can be followed by another c-section? Or that their VBAC, while not traumatic, wasn't "amazing"?? Or that their VBAC was traumatic in a different way than their c-section was???
> 
> ...












I, for one, will not set myself up for emotional failure again. I do hope for a VBAC someday, but I'm not going to allow myself to be as traumatized if I'm not successful. I think a big part of the disappointment, the sense of failure, etc. that I went through with DD had to do with the shock, and the fear, and the unknown. After spending 9 months here on MDC, I really thought that if I did everything *right* I would have a natural birth, just like my mother, and my grandmother. Although I won't choose it, I can see where a c-section could also be healing for me, if it didn't involve the shock and fear (fear of the unknown, fear for DD, fear for my body, DH not responding when I ask him whether she's okay when she didn't cry, blue baby) that my first one involved.

As women, part of what makes us strong is that we share our experiences, and grow from others' experiences along with our own. I agree that the healing is in the sharing.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CherryBomb*
> 
> JTA_mom, you're hitting on a HUGE pet peeve of mine, especially with ICAN. I think it does a huge disservice to moms to present only happy stories, because it gives them the impression that if they just do x,y, and z, everything will be okay. I remember a few years ago ICAN soliciting "success" stories of very long labors (3 or more days) and being really irritated. Yes, sometimes long labors are normal and everything is okay, but sometimes (as with dd2 and me) it's a long labor because something is very wrong. And, as you pointed out, it's hurtful to those of us who did NOT have "successful" vbacs (I ended up with another c/s after my vba2c, so I've been on both sides of that fence) to be repeatedly silenced.


I've had five c-sections, including a nightmare of a failed HBA3C (my son died during labour, and I was in really, really rough shape, myself). I've never been silenced by ICAN. Have they ever asked people to submit their stories of VBAmC turned stillbirth? No. I can't see why they would. I can have the dead baby card, and the "this can go wrong if you try to birth with an explosive uterus" card played on me by walking into a random OB office. Almost the only place I can hear about the VBACs that turned out well is ICAN. Those stories are being solicited to balance the negative press VBAC gets almost everywhere.

I'm sorry if that's been your experience, but I really don't think looking for success stories for particular scenarios means they're silencing anyone else. When I finally gave up and had a truly elective c-section (my fifth, almost two years ago), I got total support from everybody I knew who was involved with ICAN. (And, I actually have been asked to submit my story to the Clarion, despite the fact that I never have had, and never will have, a vaginal birth.)

Anyway - I just popped in when I saw there were new posts here. This thread isn't a comfortable place to be, so I'll bow out again - just wanted to throw out there that specifically asking for success stories isn't the same thing as silencing those without those stories.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

I totally get what y'all are talking about. I think the reason ANY birth is traumatic (vaginal included) is usually due to lack of support, and sometimes knowledge, but that kinda goes hand in hand. I think the reason ANY birth (including cesareans) are healing is due to having abundant support. I did NOT have a healing VBAC, planned HBAC turned CBAC yada yada with a cadilac...etc, etc, etc. BUT, I did learn oh so so much about myself during the postpartum period where all I had was support from my MW, not saying, yeah you failed, that sucked, but, instead saying 'wow, that birth really took everything out of you and it is not what you wanted, and that sucks.' I think it's important for people to just be with the mom who is telling her story and where she is at. It's not really all that important to tell her, she could have got in this position, stayed at home this much longer, refused this intervention, etc. That helps with planning the future birth, and understanding the previous birth, but as far as healing...the main this is just saying 'I agree'. Whether this is with her choice for a ERC, no more kids, VBAC, how painful things were, etc. Just be there with her, and let her know that her feelings are real and valid.

I have a friend who had a very empowering CBAC. Very much so. This really opened up a whole new perspective on birth to me. Also understanding why mine were so traumatic, helped me realize that not everyone feels the same things when they undergo a cesarean.

I see why ICAN wants positive stories and I think it's great to have a blog of those stories, but those stories aren't limited to vaginal births. I think the main thing women fear in going in for a cesarean is that if they have a cesarean again, it will be just as traumatic, just as hard to recover from, just as painful in every way. It's important to speak to that fear and say, 'no it doesn't have to be different' instead of ignoring the thought that something unplanned could happen. It's almost like if things don't go your way, then not only did you fail, but you'll come out traumatized too. Women don't need this.


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AustinMom*
> It's almost like if things don't go your way, then not only did you fail, but you'll come out traumatized too. Women don't need this.


This is it exactly.

I'm not saying that we should make c/s normal, but not talking about failed vbacs is a disservice. Many many many women who have a failed vbac don't comeback to ican meetings. I was lucky in that my local one is run by a woman who had a failed vbac. Being able to share the feelings/emotions/thoughts around having a failed vbac is important.

Also, talking openly about it shows that a failed vbac does occur, quite frequently. The way info is presented now only shows successful vbacs (so since I didn't have that, I'm obviously 'odd'), that the only way to heal is to have a vbac, and that only c/s are traumatizing. None of those is necessarily true. Shoot, the one vaginal birth I had ended with a dead baby. Sure vaginal is natural but it can still be traumatic. This last c/s was less traumatic than the first, especially since I got to keep my baby with me. Still don't like being cut open/awake for the whole thing, but it didn't affect my bond with my baby like the first one had.

Even this round of PPD, I think, is much more linked to a) the horrible botched epidural making me feel as if I were dying and b) the inner beating I gave myself for fealing like a failure as a woman due to having a failed VBAC. Had there been talk of how VBACs can fail, how to set up as comfortable of a c/s as possible, and had that damn epidural not happened, I think it wouldn't have been as bad as it was.

Ami


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Anyway - I just popped in when I saw there were new posts here. This thread isn't a comfortable place to be, so I'll bow out again - just wanted to throw out there that specifically *asking for success stories isn't the same thing as silencing those without those stories*.


This is an excellent point and has got me thinking about our assumptions of what a "success" story is. I was assuming that a "successful" VBAC was one in which the baby was pushed out the vagina and no c-section was performed. And I was assuming that that's what kind of story ICAN was looking for.

But what if a "successful" VBAC is one in which the woman feels good about her experience, no matter how the baby entered the world? I suppose technically an attempted VBAC that becomes a repeat c-section isn't really a VBAC. But why can't it be presented as a success story? If ICAN is soliciting success stories, I think a repeat c-section that a mom feels good about should count. Success is in the eye of the beholder. Just my opinion.

Storm Bride, thank you as always for sharing your perspective and getting me thinking. I can understand why this is not a comfortable place for you, but I so appreciate your willingness to come back here and to share.

Big hugs to all.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JTA Mom*
> 
> Even this round of PPD, I think, is much more linked to a) the horrible botched epidural making me feel as if I were dying and b) the inner beating I gave myself for fealing like a failure as a woman due to having a failed VBAC. Had there been talk of how VBACs can fail, how to set up as comfortable of a c/s as possible, and had that damn epidural not happened, I think it wouldn't have been as bad as it was.
> 
> Ami


DS2 brought this thread back up, so I guess I'm back. I'm actually kind of surprised at how often I see this sentiment expressed here. I've never seen anyone suggest that VBACs always succeed or that failed VBACs don't happen. I see lots of talk about ways to reduce the impact of a c/s ("natural", empowered, etc. sections). I guess I just don't know where this total silence about these things is occurring, yk? I'm very sorry about the issues with your epidural, though - I find them freaky as it gets, even when they work right, so I can't even imagine what it's like to have one not work properly.

And, fwiw, my last section didn't traumatize me, as such. But, it broke me. It wasn't even remotely healing. The only good point is that it marked the end of my reproductive life, and I'm never going to struggle with infertility again, and I'm never going to have another miscarriage, stillbirth or c-section again. I always thought I'd be sad about getting my tubes done, but I was just so relieved to know that it's all over. Pregnancy was such a wonderful feeling the first couple of times, and then it just turned into a burden, because of how it was all going to end and/or because of having to fight every second to avoid that ending. And, that inner beating you talk about has happened after every one of my children landed earthside. It has nothing to do with what other people say about it. It has to do with how I feel about it, and how I've felt about it my entire life. I knew going in that VBACs could fail - I knew that every time (except the last, where I'd given up hope and knew I wasn't having a VBAC, anyway). I knew things could go wrong. In fact, the last time around, everything went better than in any of my previous sections...didn't change anything, in terms of the inner beating.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

My persnickety response was the call wasn't for successful stories, but for successful VBACs (or that's the way I believe JTA had phrased it).

There are so many pathways to healing (if needed) after a c/section or a traumatic birth that I think all should be celebrated!

P.S. I'm always glad to see you here SB as I think you are wonderful voice of perspective and I am sorry the thread is not the easiest for you...










I'll be honest I had a bit of a bee in my bonnet since a recent thread I was participating on (I think you were there too SB) and in response to the OP, someone had posted - the only way the woman in question was going to heal was to have a VBAC. I seethed at that phrase, because it turned on that "inner monologue tape" for me "failing" since I didn't have a VBAC. Sorry for it coming out on this thread... I need to go and deal with it offline


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> DS2 brought this thread back up, so I guess I'm back. I'm actually kind of surprised at how often I see this sentiment expressed here. I've *never seen anyone suggest that VBACs always succeed or that failed VBACs don't happen. I see lots of talk about ways to reduce the impact of a c/s ("natural", empowered, etc. sections). I guess I just don't know where this total silence about these things is occurring, yk?*
> 
> And, fwiw, my last section didn't traumatize me, as such. But, it broke me. It wasn't even remotely healing. The only good point is that it marked the end of my reproductive life, and I'm never going to struggle with infertility again, and I'm never going to have another miscarriage, stillbirth or c-section again. I always thought I'd be sad about getting my tubes done, but I was just so relieved to know that it's all over. Pregnancy was such a wonderful feeling the first couple of times, and then it just turned into a burden, because of how it was all going to end and/or because of having to fight every second to avoid that ending. And, that inner beating you talk about has happened after every one of my children landed earthside. It has nothing to do with what other people say about it. It has to do with how I feel about it, and how I've felt about it my entire life. I knew going in that VBACs could fail - I knew that every time (except the last, where I'd given up hope and knew I wasn't having a VBAC, anyway). I knew things could go wrong. In fact, the last time around, everything went better than in any of my previous sections...didn't change anything, in terms of the inner beating.


I get this message of silencing in terms of stories either focusing on having a better c/s or a successful VBAC, but none about the emotions surrounding a failed VBAC. Books on VBAC mostly focus on the successful ones, what one can do to improve the odds (aka give me ways to blame myself even more), etc. Rarely is there a section on, say, what to expect with a failed vbac. And a booklet compiling only successful vbacs (and that is the only thing she was asking for) feels a bit like a slap in the face. At the very least, I would have loved to read other women's experiences with it to get a general feel for what I would be dealing with. When I lost Joseph, I found some comfort in reading other women's stories about losing children, going on to have another pregnancy, etc, if only to give me a 'heads up' and a feeling that I'm not alone.

And I am so so sorry about your last c/s breaking you. I can relate. I think after the epidural being awake for the surgery (I wasn't the first time), feeling all the pulling and pressure sensation, I felt my own sanity break. I just couldn't deal with it. I feel a similar ambivalence as well. I liked pregnancy, I love having children, but the giving birth part? The recupperation? The mental beating I give myself? Not sure if I want to go through that. I wish things like this were openly talked about. It's strange but when I talk about certain scary parts of the surgery (like being able to feel the tugging up under my ribs, the only one's that don't flinch, that don't try to change the subject, are other c/s mamas, even ones who are happy with their c/s. I think there's a certain level of barbarism in a c/s that gets lost or is too shocking to think bout. Other than a c/s, I don't know if any major abdominal surgery is done when the person is fully conscious.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_ktg_*
> 
> My persnickety response was the call wasn't for successful stories, but for successful VBACs (or that's the way I believe JTA had phrased it).
> 
> ...


I have that tape too. I guess it's a free version. lol

And everytime I hear the first phrase I wonder if people realize how damaging it is. Does that mean I will forever be in pain? I think it's bs too. I don't think a traumatic event can be undone by a 'better' event. Having 2 living children didn't heal me from losing Joseph. And birth, being what it is, is not the best thing to pin one's hopes on for healing. Maybe I've just had horrible birth experiences and it's coloring my view too much. Anyways, I'll stop here. Apparently pork has made Elias gassy and I need to get some fresh air. Whew, I want my breastmilk only baby back.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JTA Mom*
> 
> I get this message of silencing in terms of stories either focusing on having a better c/s or a successful VBAC, but none about the emotions surrounding a failed VBAC. Books on VBAC mostly focus on the successful ones, what one can do to improve the odds (aka give me ways to blame myself even more), etc. Rarely is there a section on, say, what to expect with a failed vbac. And a booklet compiling only successful vbacs (and that is the only thing she was asking for) feels a bit like a slap in the face. At the very least, I would have loved to read other women's experiences with it to get a general feel for what I would be dealing with. When I lost Joseph, I found some comfort in reading other women's stories about losing children, going on to have another pregnancy, etc, if only to give me a 'heads up' and a feeling that I'm not alone.
> 
> ...


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

This may be a long, rambling post, so for those of you who don't like those, feel free to skip.









The idea that trauma can be undone by a 'better' event...yeah, that seems really naive to me now. But I have to admit that I went into my pregnancy/birth journey really hoping that giving birth would "heal" something that has forever felt damaged in me. I think it's the legacy of being given up for adoption, then losing my mom to cancer when I was 28 years old, then having a really hard time getting pregnant. When I felt good and had a "normal" pregnancy, it felt like maybe some bad all-things-mother-related juju was finally leaving my life. So then, ridiculous 33-hour labor and c-section, followed by breast infection, major sleep deprivation, and feeling like a totally incompetent parent. The feeling of being screwed by the universe just all came back, even worse.

So, I understand the hope that there are ways to "redeem" a traumatic experience to the point where the trauma goes away. And I know that there are religions and spiritual paths where the idea of total redemption is possible. But....that's not my story. For me, healing isn't about making the trauma go away. It's about learning to live with a wound that will never fully heal. Incorporating it into the fabric of my being. Giving it space, without letting it dominate me.

There's an aspect of healing for me that is claiming precisely the right amount of trauma. I don't want to claim any trauma that's only there because I'm comparing myself to some external perfectionist ideal. And I don't want to deny or discount any trauma that is real and lasting. I don't want to "prettify" my experience or make it more palatable to others. Nor do I want to exaggerate or embellish my experience. This is very much about crafting my own story about what happened, and not fitting my story into some kind of "script" about how c-sections are "supposed" to go or what impact they're "supposed" to have.

And speaking of scripts, hoo boy do I know about that. For a good year after DD was born, my "c-section trauma" script completely hijacked my brain. For some reason it was especially active when I was riding my bike. I can't tell you how many times I rode to & from work with tears & snot streaming down my face. I learned a route that minimized the number of people I would see along the way, so that I could just let it go. I carried tissues in my pockets. Sometimes I would very consciously and deliberately try to think about something else. And I couldn't do it!!! The trauma script just took over.

One of my biggest signs of healing is that the script takes up a lot less real estate in my head now. When it starts to play, I know that there's some unmet need that I must address...often just a need to get more sleep or to eat a decent meal. I can give the script a little space without letting it completely take over. Usually.

I am impressed with the resilience that I've found in myself and that I discover in others when I hear your stories. Yes, there is lasting damage, but there is also a remarkable human yearning towards healing, or at least persistence.

Can I tell you all how much I appreciate your courage in sharing your stories here? I visit this forum more than might be evident by the frequency of my posts. The voices here are like a health tonic for me...such a powerful reminder that I'm not alone and that damage & courage sometimes go hand in hand.

OK, this has been gratifying for me at least! If you made it this far, thanks for reading.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

I feel sad for women who want to get pregnant to VBAC as it's 'the only way the can heal'. How much crappier are they going to feel if they fail? Or how about if they DO have a great VBAC but realize, why does baby number 1's birth still hurt? Oh, maybe that' because they are two different event that don't help the other. You don't fix your oven by working on the sink, even though they are both in the kitchen. And if you have a broken oven, try and fix the sink and it breaks too...then you are in trouble. I fear for those women. Although, maybe the empowerment they feel after a 'successful VBAC' is enough to cloud out the bad of the first CS. I don't know.

The 'tugging feeling' yeah, not tugging. With my first, sure I felt pressure and pulling, with my second, I might have well as been beaten with a baseball bat for the entire surgery. Yeah, that bad, and I not only cried by screamed on the operating table. They said they couldn't give me any more medication as it was at it's max and the only other things would have been general. I had a friend who had a CBAC, under general right around the time I did and she had a great birth, very empowering to her. Looking back, I wish I had. I had a lot of emotional subconscious crap lingering from the sexual abuse that went on during my childhood and would have rather not have had to go through that pain physically during the operation. That sucked. BUT, looking back, I feel that if I was under general, I would have not noticed all the crap I had going on subconsciously, and would just ignored it longer, and I think because I had such crappy births, I've allowed myself to see and deal with the trauma from my childhood.

No, I don't think you ever get over anything. I agree with that. I've never gotten over loosing my mom either (at age 11) and I get how crappy that can be. I'm not 'over it', nor am I 'over' my abuse, or my traumatic births. I feel like I do know how to carry them with me except now they are dead and not continuously beating me up along the way.


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

CI Mama- beautifully written! It sounds like you are really in touch with your feelings and experience. I Am glad you are able to find some healing, and I totally understand about needing to really embrace the traumatic aspects of a trauma. To really acknowledge how much something has hurt and give it a voice and all that! I am glad you are finding solace in everyone's stories.

AFM I wanted to tell you guys that I started this silicone strip c section scar healing thing yesterday- and I am pretty excited about it! I will let you know how it works. It is really for any scar but they made one that fits the right size of a c section scar. It is called scar away silicone strip or something. It is just this strip kind of like a band aid looking thing but less sticky- but you just stick it on the scar, leave it for 12 or more hours, then take it off and wash it with soap and water, let dry and then reapply. It is supposed to soften and help heal the scar and help minimize the itching. I got it because I am still itchy one year later so I hope it works. I noticed the scar already seemed softer a tiny bit after one day! It is recommended to use for 8 - 12 weeks and I don't even really feel it when it is on. I will let you guys know if it works for me.


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## hasya (Jun 27, 2010)

I am very grateful for this thread. Now that DD is 11 months old, we're thinking about planning for #2. Not this minute, but in 2-3 months. My source of birthing trauma was the fear I felt when I heard her heart beat begin to slow down. It didn't leave until well into motherhood and the fear made it very difficult for me to bond. I had just shut down the attachment part of me to protect myself from breaking down. This was similar to what happened when I lost my father at 14. For one whole year, I didn't cry. And the year after that, I became intolerable to live with although that might have been just the normal part of adolescence. I blocked it off and in thus doing so, I can no longer remember my father's voice. I can remember some isolated phrases, but not his voice in general. The fear of the pain of losing someone else was too difficult to endure. And after she came out, I had some people who got their natural blah blah births tell me that I give in too easily, go with the flow too easily, and that I didn't educate myself enough of all the procedures. Also that heart rate slowing down isn't that big a deal and that they should have let nature take its course. Excuse me, but I am the one who would have had to live with any negative outcome, not you. Anyway, that just made me feel worse that had I not allowed myself to get induced, DD would never have gotten distressed.

I've always wanted #2, so it isn't to look for healing, but yes, I wanted a VBAC to help me heal. Never allowing myself to wonder what I would do or feel if it didn't work and I have to have another emergency C-section. Isn't it better to have a scheduled C-section on my own terms? Discuss with my doctor about wanting skin to skin right away etc.? This thread has given me the courage to think that it isn't a failure if I elect a C-section. I know that I would be far worse off if I have a failed VBAC attempt, than if I make my peace with a repeat C-section and negotiate terms and conditions - only schedule one past 40 weeks, given my history of having gone 11 days over, demanding immediate skin to skin which again, I so missed with DD. It never occurred to me to demand to see her better. Or even hold her. I was only relieved to hear a squeak. She didn't cry. And I was too drained out from a long labor.

As for the tugging, I felt it too, but I wouldn't want general anesthesia just because I would want to meet my baby as soon as he/she comes out. This is the only surgery where it is not being done to fix something inside. Perhaps that is why it is done with a spinal block and not general anesthesia? Cut, get baby out, get placenta out, clean up, sew up?

Also, having worked in anesthesia, those chemicals are nasty. I wouldn't want them circulating in my blood stream if I can avoid it. Researchers are trying to determine an Alzheimer's link. Even taking it once may increase the chance of Alzheimer's.

Not to say that I have decided against a VBAC, but I am more open to a repeat C-section esp. if it can be on my terms, performed by my OB rather than the on-call surgeon.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

I've always thought and said that woman should not choose any of her birth choices out of fear. I was wrong. I was oh so wrong. While I do believe that fears do make us choose things that are maybe not rational, they are real. They are very real. I hope this isn't interpreted as 'If you choose _______ then you chose the not safest choice." That's not what I'm saying.

I'm a survivor of sexual abuse, and while I know it's much safer in every way for an epidural during a CS, for me, it is too emotionally damaging and has too much of a negative effect on my bonding with my child to be awake during that event. So, while in normal, typical circumstances, it's best to have an epidural, for me, it's not.

I think it's about choice, and the mom being very quite and still and pray/meditate on what she wants to do and really visualize how each choice would play out. Then choose. And she should always be supported in that choice.


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## greenmulberry (Jan 11, 2009)

In case anyone who is scheduled for a C section is reading this thread and getting scared, I have to say mine was pain free and I barely felt anything. I only felt the most gentle "brushes" against my skin is what it felt like. I know some women have trouble with pain and fear but it isn't always like that.

I was terrified when I found I had to go for a section after 40 hours of failed induction. My baby's heart rate was seriously dropping as my contractions got stronger. I talked with the doctors about my fears, that I would feel the surgery and that I would panic from being awake. I have to say the doctors I worked with were very compassionate. I was crying, just bawling when they put the spinal in, from fear!!! A kind nurse held me in her arms as I wept. However, for me, the c section was a welcome end to the hell that was my induction. I told the anesthesiologist and DH to keep talking so I couldn't hear the surgery discussion, and they kept up a lively chatter that distracted me. I was amazed at how GOOD I felt, and I am not sure if that is because they were pumping me full of something to feel good, or the induction drugs had been removed and my body numb from the spinal.

Honestly, I struggle with the notion of trying for a VBAC. For me, labor sucked so bad and I failed at it, and my baby was doing poorly, and the section "fixed" it all. I do feel bad I didn't feel her leave my body, I want that so badly, but at the same time, I am scared of labor now. Dare I try again for a real labor? I go back and forth. I feel like something was stolen from me by having a c section, but at the same time, it wasn't looking like labor was going to get me a healthy baby.


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## jenniferadurham (Apr 6, 2008)

I am 2 weeks PP. My water broke on it's own, labored for almost 12 hours. DR came in, did a cervical check only to find that baby had turned breech. So off to the OR we went. I've never had surgery before..ever. And whatever meds are in the spinal...I freaked out. I thought I was going to flip out. My body doesn't even do good with Tylenol pm or benedryl. But I survived and got a beautiful baby boy! DR said that if we decided to have more kids(we arent) that im a great candidate for a VBAC...which is good news, but i wont be using it to my advantage..lol. This recovery sucks. I'm getting better day by day, but I never realized how much it takes out of you. And I'm scared to take my steristrips off...







lol I missed holding my DS1 for that first week. I'm still not supposed to hold him, but I do...ooops.


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## hasya (Jun 27, 2010)

Why can't you hold him? I was allowed to hold DD the very first day. Do whatever doesn't cause pain.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasya*
> 
> Why can't you hold him? I was allowed to hold DD the very first day. Do whatever doesn't cause pain.


She said her dd1, which is her older child. Post-c/s, you're absolutely not supposed to pick up/hold your older children. According to old guidelines, I wouldn't even have been "allowed" to pick up my second and third newborns. (Old guidelines - even when I had ds1 - were "don't pick up anything over 10 pounds" and both of them were over 10 pounds.)


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## hasya (Jun 27, 2010)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 


> She said her dd1, which is her older child. Post-c/s, you're absolutely not supposed to pick up/hold your older children. According to old guidelines, I wouldn't even have been "allowed" to pick up my second and third newborns. (Old guidelines - even when I had ds1 - were "don't pick up anything over 10 pounds" and both of them were over 10 pounds.)


Oops, sorry missed that. She said DS1 actually . Yeah, I was told not to lift anything over the weight of baby.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasya*
> 
> Oops, sorry missed that. She said DS1 actually . Yeah, I was told not to lift anything over the weight of baby.


So, she did! That's what happens when I don't pay attention. I probably picked up on it right away, simply because I've had to deal with a c/s recovery and toddlers/older children on more than one occasion...and it's not the kind of thing one forgets quickly.


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> So, she did! That's what happens when I don't pay attention. I probably picked up on it right away, simply because I've had to deal with a c/s recovery and toddlers/older children on more than one occasion...and it's not the kind of thing one forgets quickly.


Oh yea. I so broke that rule too. My poor toddler would have hated the baby is suddenly mommy wasn't able to cuddle and hold him for a month & a half.

Actually, I want to ask you, Lisa, and other moms with multiple c/s, how did you manage recovery & childcare? This last time was exhausting.

I'm not sure if I will even have more, or if I will go straight for a repeat c/s or try for a VBA2C, but I'm just curious about how you all handled it. I think I did way too much this time around, but I didn't have much help or even a heads up, since I was going for a VBAC and didn't even think about what another c/s would mean. Prepared food was a must, but did you guys set up family or hired someone to take care of the older kids? Cleaning the house (minimal stuff, like laundry)? Any tips?

I know there might be some mamas reading this who already have a little one and are facing another c/s, so I thought we could compile a list.

For me, I would have loved to have someone over at least 3 times a week to do the dishes/laundry/basic grocery shopping (milk, fresh fruits, etc).

Someone to come over for a couple hours a day to play with the older kiddo and let me shower/nap/do things that were hard for me physically

Someone to force feed/ hydrate me, lol. The pain and pain meds really killed my appetite. Once dh started putting breakfast, lunch and dinner in front of me and a huge cup of water, I did a lot better. lol

Ami


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## hasya (Jun 27, 2010)

Ouch, I bet!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> So, she did! That's what happens when I don't pay attention. I probably picked up on it right away, simply because I've had to deal with a c/s recovery and toddlers/older children on more than one occasion...and it's not the kind of thing one forgets quickly.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Dh had a week off of work, but I really wasn't ready to be on my own with the kids. I think if we have any more (which will be scheduled c/s) I will see about springing for a housekeeper for a month and maybe a post partum doula.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

Wow - I didn't even know this thread existed!...I guess I shall introduce myself!...

My name is Ann, I am 27 and mum to two wonderful boys - Duncan who was born in September 05 and Hamish - who just turned ONE!  this past Friday!...

Both were born via section. Hamish was a failed UBAC, failed HBAC, failed VBAC....(it really went downhill!)...I laugh and joke of course but it is just a mask I wear to help me cope I think...

I can start with Duncan. He was my first. He was a surprise. I didn't know anything...I had never even held a baby! Pregnancy went great though! I was feeling happy and not worried and eventually I bonded with my baby (despite initial shock - it wasn't really the 'right time' as we had just got married, there was a big move, etc...but he was very much accepted and loved!). My waters broke one morning (wow! haha) - and this was it...called DH to come back home and we went off to the hospital (as told) to make sure baby was happy about everything - he was...I was then checked (4-5cm already - wow this is easy! lol)...but wait...she didn't feel a head - his testicals were hanging out of me. He was breech. I was advised to not birth vaginal - I was told he could die. I was suddenly very scared. A section was the last thing I wanted. I heard many horrible things about it but here I was - I felt it was my only option. He was big too - he was 10 and a half pounds at birth (healthy baby and so was I).

Despite everything - and despite the fact I would never recommend or condone a section (espeically for my own circumstances) - it went well. I was back on my feet in a week and he was a very easy baby.

My vaginal birth loss with Duncan was actually experienced later on...the more I grew as a person and the more I grew as a mother. It set in and the more I grew the more it set in.

But the joy!...We were going to try for another! After a hard time conceiving (nearly 2 years trying and many many miscarriage - eventualy acupuncture worked!) - he stuck! Things were different this time around. I had learned so much. I had grown so much. (quite literally toward the end...haha...okay there is my mask again......)... I visualised the birth many times. Every day. It is all I could think about...

And it started out just how I had visualised. I went into labour early hours of the morning. My waters did not break - instead I had bloody show. Things happened quickly. Before my son even got up I was in very heavy labour with my contractions less than a minute apart and coming on fast and hard....

They went on like that for HOURS though...a DAY later they were still going on like that. Against my wishes I eventually called out a MW (I had planned a UBAC) - I was in a lot of pain at this point though (baby was happy though!) so opted for the gas and air...good stuff that! Eventually I was just tired though...so tired and hungry... I was stuck at 8cm for 6 hours (again - against my better judgment I begged her to check me - I was far too curious!)... She was a very supportive MW and very hopeful and positive and I really do love her - even now...

I just gave up though. I figured we could go to the hospital - try and epi and see if I could get some rest and something to eat. It failed though. They tried it three times - no luck. This meant my section was under a general anasthetic. Despite being healthy and not having GD - to give me a bit of credit (though it still doesn't help how I feel) - he was a very big baby at 12lbs 4oz! (I just grow them big I guess! lol)...

Looking back, I can think of a million places I went 'wrong'. But theres nothing I can do about that now. Hindsight - I can only save what I have learned and know better next time...

Which is where the problem lies...(I shall read though this thread in all good time - so I hope to find others who feel like me...I can't be the only one and DH doesn't understand)...I want to be done. I want our family to be complete. I want this to be it. I want it just us and our two boys. I want to grow up and move on. But I do not feel done and I do not feel complete. I NEED a vaginal birth. So much it feels like such great heartache. I really do need it. Sometimes I think I can live without it...but then I realise that one day I will be a mother-in-law and one day I will be a Grandmother...and I can't do it...I can't bear the though of it...I can't face that part of my life not having had a vaginal birth. So right now, in 4-5 years time we will be trying again... Sometimes people ask me what I will do if, again, I 'need' another seciton (for whatever reason) and I can't bear the thought of it.

I feel very strongly about natural birth and it kills me that mine went awry - I feel a bit like a hypocrite though I know I am not. I also just wish that DH could understand.

I have noticed one (positive/good?) change though. After DS1, I felt a lot of anger and resentment towards others - even him for a little bit...but after DS2, I feel more anger and resentment towards myself.

It is still hard though - because I still find it hard to be around other pregnant woman and I still find it hard to be around other woman who have had a vaginal birth. I find it very hard to listen to other peoples vaginal birth stories and can not watch anything related to that. Why not me? is all that continously runs through my head. A vaginal birth is really all I fantasis about - is that sad or what?

I feel like I can never heal from this - and that the only 'cure' is a vaginal birth. I did even consider being a host surrogate (get the vaginal birth - without doing the baby thing again! haha) - but then I realised that whilst I could most deff be happy to be a host surrogate - I can't until I have had a vaginal birth OR that baby would mean too much to me and I couldn't risk that. I wouldn't feel that way if I had already had a vaginal birth (being a surrogate is something I have always thought of doing anyhow because I love pregnancy so much and after suffering infertility - for whatever reason - as we have - I would love to be able to give a family something they too struggle for - something I know would mean the world to them - but not until I had had my own vaginal birth).

So theres my nut in a nut shell!


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

The one good thing was my MW. She respected my wishes. I had a tiny tid bit on what I would like to happen in an emergency. She was totally supprtive - down to the home made cord ties! She even put the placenta in the bowl we brought so I could take it home ( I ate it! lol) and ...and and and...the BEST part...she put my son right to my chest - right away - she latched him on for me and he had his first feed whilst I was still unconcious!...(if you have to have a scheduled section - I would highly recommend stating this as your wish!)...and of course, as I was knocked out, she was still able to come in with me (being a MW) so was able to get all the photos of what, even if DH could have been there!, DH himself couldn't have even been able to see - so I have those great photos to keep forever. ...I cant' complain about that part...but I also can't change how I feel. I hate the way it feels sometimes - a lot of the time....


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## hannybanany (Jun 3, 2006)

I'm happy to see this thread. I've never been over here before.

I had my second c section 16 days ago. And I'm still processing how I feel about it.

DD1 was born by c section after a failed induction 6 days after her EDD.

DD2 was born via VBAC after a long, tough, completely natural labor. I am so proud of my VBAC *for me*. I can't say that the recovery was physically easier, but being able to resume normal activity and hold my preschooler afterward was wonderful.

I was planning a second VBAC with DS. I had done it before, so I would do it again, right? Guess not. This time my labor started with my water breaking. My MW/OB's office closed 20 minutes after my water broke, so, because I didn't know what their policy was when your water breaks, I gave them a call. The MW called me back and said I needed to go to the hospital immediately. I wasn't happy with this. I wasn't having any contractions yet, and I would much rather labor at home. But she called an hour later and asked why I wasn't in the hospital yet and asked when I would be arriving. We got there an hour later, still only having ctx every 10 mins or so.

Anyway, labor started probably about 10 hours later and by the time I was in active labor (laboring standing up, walking around, hands and knees, on the birth ball, squatting, anything as long as I was attached to the monitors) several hours after that I was breaking down. The contractions were double and triple peaking with just a minute between. I'm pretty sure I'm not a birthing wimp, but I begged for an epidural. I continued to labor upright and on my hands and knees, but my temperature was rising and the water now had thick meconium. When it came time to push we turmed the epi waaaay down, I pushed upright using thesquat bar and in several otheer positions. He started at 0 station and three hours later he was still at 0. My temp was nearly 102 and that combined with some other factors my DH and I decided on csection. With DD1 we were lied to about needing an "emergency" csec, but this time we made all the decisions. The surgery went well, but the Dr said I got a "cervical extension", where the uterus tore toward my cervix during the section. Unfortunately DS did get an infection, presumably from my water being broken for 24 hours, but after a couple of days of antibiotics in the hospital he is perfectly fine.

My recovery has been fantastic. I was up moving around and showering 15 hours after the surgery, and have just felt really good. I didn't finish either prescription I was given for pain.

My dr said she can't recommend a VBA2C because of the cervical extension. The thought of having a scheduled section with future children is devastating. As a Catholic family who plans to have more children I really need to research this more.

Failing at a VBAC after having a successful VBAC is also devastating. Hindsight is always 20/20, and the what if's are killing me. What if I hadn't called the MW immediately and stayed at home to labor? What if I hadn't gotten the epidural? What if I had just kept trying to push (DS was malpositioned, which was very obvious after he was delivered)? I feel like a failure. Thankfully I have a wonderful husband who is not suffering with mommy guilt who is able to remind me that we made the best decision.

So, pretty much I know it was the best choice at the time, but I still feel terribly guilty about it. I guess this is normal?


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Hannybanany, I definitely empathize with your situation. My first was a c/s (failed induction), second was also a c/s (failed hbac turned emergency c-section; dd2 has significant brain damage), third was a vba2c in the hospital, pretty easy, straightforward birth. I assumed #4 would be the same, but I ended up with my third c/s. We're also Catholic, so I understand where you're coming from on that. For me, I am not comfortable attempting a vba3c, so if we have any more children it will be by scheduled c/s. I played the "what-if" game and felt guilty for whatever reason at first, but 6 months out I'm content. He had a true knot in his cord that was causing post-contraction decels so in hindsight I'm glad we played it safe and got him out before things went bad.

Congratulations on your little guy!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JTA Mom*
> 
> Oh yea. I so broke that rule too. My poor toddler would have hated the baby is suddenly mommy wasn't able to cuddle and hold him for a month & a half.
> 
> ...


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hannybanany*
> 
> My dr said she can't recommend a VBA2C because of the cervical extension. The thought of having a scheduled section with future children is devastating. As a Catholic family who plans to have more children I really need to research this more.


I struggle with this too. Dh is Catholic and I am Greek Orthodox. I think a lot of my PPD has to do with this. Honestly, surgery terrifies me. And the thought of going through it multiple times? *shudder* This last time, I literally thought I would die while being wheeled into surgery. No idea where this fear comes from, but it is there. 

I'm also terrified of all the complications like hemorrage, and especially hysterectomy. I don't want that. The lack of control that I would feel.....

It is interesting too, that several of the posters here said that having a c/s, and especially 2 c/s has changed their desired family size. It's not really talked about either. It's like a secret or something. Doctors don't talk about it, magazines, etc.

For those who will be having more children through c/s...what did you do to come to terms with it? For those who changed their minds on number of children, what were your thoughts? Was/is there any healing around this topic of more children? If you have come to a place of peace on this issue, how did you go about getting there?

I feel like there might be a lot of discussion on this topic from women who have literally experienced this, rather than an outsider. What do you all think?

Ami


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JTA Mom*
> 
> I struggle with this too. Dh is Catholic and I am Greek Orthodox. I think a lot of my PPD has to do with this. Honestly, surgery terrifies me. And the thought of going through it multiple times? *shudder* This last time, I literally thought I would die while being wheeled into surgery. No idea where this fear comes from, but it is there.
> 
> ...


Edited, for colour - I usually use the lighter blue to reply within quotes, but re-reading my original post, I realized that it's really hard to read in large blocks! I also fixed up a few random typos along the way.


----------



## Canadianne (Jul 14, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JTA Mom*
> 
> I feel like there might be a lot of discussion on this topic from women who have literally experienced this, rather than an outsider. What do you all think?
> 
> Ami


I completely agree. I know people who have had c-sections and loved them and easily made the decision to schedule a section for their next baby. I don't know anyone who has had a c-section and struggled. I don't relate, at all, to people who have had uncomplicated c-sections.

Up until now I have said with confidence that I didn't want to risk having another baby. Now that my son is at the 'golden age' I'm starting to doubt myself. I guess my first step would be to talk with my Doctor to see if he has any thoughts on the matter. But after that, I need to know how other mamas have worked through their struggles with whether or not to have another baby.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Aside from anything else, the relative risks for certain complications start getting scary after a while.


100% yes. My fear of repeating the trauma that was my first c-section (which, in my case, was not all failed vaginal birth related trauma...I never had any real hopes of delivering vaginally) is what is currently influencing our decisions regarding family size. If my body sucked so much the first time, isn't it going to suck even more the next time? It's not like I can change any of the factors that caused my delivery to go so poorly. My uteri will never be anywhere close to normal and now I have a scar to add to the mix which just makes everything worse. Odds generally don't work in my favour so I have real doubts about a second pregnancy. It feels like there really is no hope.

And Storm Bride, thank you so much for taking the time to write down your story. I appreciate your willingness to talk about some very difficult situations in order to give us other mamas some perspective.


----------



## hannybanany (Jun 3, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CherryBomb*
> 
> Hannybanany, I definitely empathize with your situation. My first was a c/s (failed induction), second was also a c/s (failed hbac turned emergency c-section; dd2 has significant brain damage), third was a vba2c in the hospital, pretty easy, straightforward birth. I assumed #4 would be the same, but I ended up with my third c/s. We're also Catholic, so I understand where you're coming from on that. For me, I am not comfortable attempting a vba3c, so if we have any more children it will be by scheduled c/s. I played the "what-if" game and felt guilty for whatever reason at first, but 6 months out I'm content. He had a true knot in his cord that was causing post-contraction decels so in hindsight I'm glad we played it safe and got him out before things went bad.
> 
> Congratulations on your little guy!


Thank you for your response. It's comforting to know that somebody understands.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JTA Mom*
> 
> I'm also terrified of all the complications like hemorrage, and especially hysterectomy. I don't want that. The lack of control that I would feel.....


Oh, me too.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

I haven't check-in for a while so this is really long 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hannybanany*
> 
> I'm happy to see this thread. I've never been over here before.
> 
> ...


I'm so glad that your second CS was more positive. I think being a player and making decisions along the way is very important, and It's good to know that you were still able to be involved. I'm glad you had that role. 

I don't know much about cervical extensions, but I could see how an OB could be relating it to the risks of a uterine rupture. I'd definitely ask them why they deem it too risky to VBAC now, and studies, research, and really get as much info as you can and you be the one to decide where to go from there.

I think we all have those 'what if's' and I think that's a very important part of the healing journey. Guilt is very real. I think more real than that is just sorrow that I felt after my kids' births about how I wish I could have done whatever magical thing to protect them and make those crappy things not happen to them. I felt like I was to blame about everything, even though I knew knew I did everything right. It's important to keep in mind that yes, we are a player in our births, but we are only one those players. There is the baby, our bodies, our subconscious, birth itself, etc. I couldn't have blame ourselves and think that I could have done ______ different and it could have been better, because it really just all happened and it was 'out of my control'. And I'm at peace with that.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JTA Mom*
> 
> I struggle with this too. Dh is Catholic and I am Greek Orthodox. I think a lot of my PPD has to do with this. Honestly, surgery terrifies me. And the thought of going through it multiple times? *shudder* This last time, I literally thought I would die while being wheeled into surgery. No idea where this fear comes from, but it is there.
> 
> ...


I get the whole terror of surgery thing. DH had a vasectomy and to me, just thinking about someone going in his body and changing the physiology of it really freaked me out. That was a lot for me to handle. I think that is very real. For me, just the other day in fact, I got to a place where I was looking at my scar (which was a journey in and of itself) and then looked at DD and DS and really stood in amazement that their little bodies came from my body. They were born through me and I did that. I had my babies. It was so great.

I can see myself (if DH wasn't 'fixed' now) having another, and to be honest, I could really go either way. VBA2C (to which I'd drive 200 miles away for an OB that i know of) or doing an ERC. It's not that birth doesn't matter to me, I just know that I could be at peace either way. I think what is stopping us from more children (again with out the vas.) is DH does not want more, as he was never really super thrilled about having the ones we have now lol!, and I don't really know if I want to do the whole pregnancy, baby, infant thing. It's a lot. A LOT! I'd want to do it just for the 'birth' part, as I loved laboring, and would love to be a surrogate like the other mama was talking about, but don't know how I would do that skipping the pregnancy thing. Also the particial abruption is a medical risk factor, and it we would risk a third CS, but that's the technical stuff. I am at peace with where I am at. It took a lot of work. I saw a therapist who specializes in sexual abuse (which is why my CSs were so hard on me partly) and we did a 'breathwork therapy' session (you can google that) and I think that helped. Self care was/is HUGE for me. In fact, one Friday night, after dinner, I left the house, we to a very nice hotel downtown, ordered wine, cheesecake, buffalo wings, and just spent time with me. The next morning I woke (without someone waking me!) had a pedi in the AM, then a 2 hr lunch at a yummy resturant downtown with my journal and I just wrote. It was a day full of stream of consciousness writing. Then had a massage to top it off and by the time I got home kids were napping and DH and I spent about an hour just talking. I now do Yoga and mediate a few times a week and really spend A LOT of time just being present and checking in with where I am at emotionally. If I feel sad, I allow myself to feel sad. If I feel happy, upset, depressed, etc, I let myself feel those and try and figure out what is causing each feeling and really sitting with that and just spending a few minutes just feeling. That's helped me in every aspect of my life in finding peace. 

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Edited, for colour - I usually use the lighter blue to reply within quotes, but re-reading my original post, I realized that it's really hard to read in large blocks! I also fixed up a few random typos along the way.


Storm Bride, your story has touched me so deeply. I can't imagine the courage it took for you to really get to a place where you allow those emotions to come to words/text and then sending those out for others to read. I don't know if you will believe me when I say this, but you truly are stronger than you already know you are. Your kids are going to learn so much from you. SO much. You are a rock for other mamas to look to, lean on, etc. You really are amazing.  You deserve the night away I was talking about a bit ago! Take two!!!! Lots of Love sent your way ~~~~~~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley*
> 
> Wow - I didn't even know this thread existed!...I guess I shall introduce myself!...
> 
> ...


Those 'what if's' again, like I mentioned above are really hard to work through, but have their purpose, so do explore them.  You may want to check out my friends' blog. http://roadtohomebirthaftermultiplecesareans.blogspot.com/ Y'all seem to likely find insight to each other. I think exploring the why behind your desires of anything for anybirth is important. Why would that make you complete? Why would it have to be a vaginal birth? What would make a CS make you feel complete? Could that happen? I don't think it's sad or weird or odd or really that far out there to feel the way you do about vaginal birth. I think it's quite common, and really deserves some serious thoughts.

I understand that anger you speak of. I had it with my first (towards DH) and then with my second (towards my entire birth team). It was really confusing for me, and I didn't want to be angry, but I think the anger and the guilt that I talked about above to hannybanany really go hand in hand. Both those emotions can really take over you and make you feel roten from the inside out. It's worse when you ignore them and just think they will go away. Nope, they didn't for me. It took a lot of journalling (which for me really forced me face to face in quite with my thoughts and emotions) to really say how I felt and write down all the scary thoughts of anger and guilt that I felt and see them. It started to look up after that. It's like something clicked.

I'm so glad this thread exists, and I think all this stuff is really important to talk about, especially online where others can gain support, and it kinda makes it easier to type instead of talk face to face with people. BUT if any of you were local, we'd have set up a get together by now with coffee, tea, drinks, and tissues!


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

I haven't read through the thread yet, so please forgive me if this subject has been addressed, but I had to pop in because I am in misery. I am 7 days out from my second C-section and I've never been more constipated in my life! I did the standard stool-softener/suppository thing in the hospital and I've been taking stool softeners twice a day to no avail. Today I took some Ex-Lax but it hasn't really had time to kick in yet. I'm spending half an hour in the bathroom at a time and it hurts like you would not believe and I'm hardly accomplishing anything! I'm having involuntary pushes like when I was pushing in labor, that's how bad it is! And of course, crazy hemorrhoids to boot.

I'm about to go to the doctor, but I don't know that they'd do anything but recommend more stool softeners and laxatives. There's got to be something that will work and quick!


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## hasya (Jun 27, 2010)

Ground flax, citrus fruits WITH the pulp. These have helped me at various times during/after pregnancy.

I hope it works for you. It sucks so much that you're suffering so.

Congratulations on your new baby!


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

I second the ground flax seed meal (just toss 2 tsp into juice and stir and slug it down) and take it frequently in between the stool softeners as I did that. I took espom salt foot baths to help relieve some of the constipation symptoms and resumed taking a probiotic or eating some yogurt (which is great to mush the flax seed meal into FYI). Also I drank so much water it was unbelievable.

As for the crazy hemorrhoids (oh god I remember those OUCH!!) - if you got a peri bottle from the hosptial, you could try this. I filled that with witch hazel and water (1:3 ratio) and keep it in the fridge to cool. Grabbed on way to the loo and squirt generous on those tender regions. The cool will be shocking - but will feel good and the witch hazel will help reduce the inflamation. I almost tried frozen maxi pads filled with witch hazel on my bum when it got really bad, but finally the flax kicked in and got my insides moving again.

Are you taking anything with iron too? I found that taking the iron supplement bound me up worse than anything else and had to stop taking it for a while to get my gut working again.

ETA: And I totally forgot to type: Congratulations on your new babe!!!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *minkajane*
> 
> I haven't read through the thread yet, so please forgive me if this subject has been addressed, but I had to pop in because I am in misery. I am 7 days out from my second C-section and I've never been more constipated in my life! I did the standard stool-softener/suppository thing in the hospital and I've been taking stool softeners twice a day to no avail. Today I took some Ex-Lax but it hasn't really had time to kick in yet. I'm spending half an hour in the bathroom at a time and it hurts like you would not believe and I'm hardly accomplishing anything! I'm having involuntary pushes like when I was pushing in labor, that's how bad it is! And of course, crazy hemorrhoids to boot.
> 
> I'm about to go to the doctor, but I don't know that they'd do anything but recommend more stool softeners and laxatives. There's got to be something that will work and quick!


I've had pretty good success with just eating a lot of fruit, as well as drinking lots of water. Other posters mentioned citrus, which is probably good, and I've also loaded up on plums and peaches (so juicy, and the liquid helps) -not sure how available they'd be right now, though. Maybe pineapple?

Good luck with this. Constipation is nasty, anyway, and I find it just nightmarish to deal with post-op!


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

I feel so. much. BETTER! Two doses of Ex-lax, two saline enemas, countless doses of stool softeners, and a half hour of OWWWWWWIIIEEE but I'm pretty sure everything's all cleaned out now. Thanks everybody for the suggestions!

Other than that, I'm recovering fairly well. Not as quickly as when I had DS (I'm not 21 anymore!) but still pretty well. Incision looks great, barely any lochia, just a bit more tired and achey than usual. I'm down to just ibuprofen now. I don't need the Percocet, which is nice because it makes me wonky. We took our first trip to the grocery store yesterday and I quite enjoyed all of the "Awww, look at the teeny little baby!"


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## McGucks (Nov 27, 2010)

I am 13 months PP. This may sound really superficial, but I am so uncomfortable with how my body still looks: I am also realizing that, regardless of how many walks I take (toting my 30 pound son along) or how much I watch what I eat, I am always going to have a gut. I guess this is from the c/s? My older son (a teen) suggested I get an "Ab Lounger" (he watches a lot of t.v. at my ex's). I am an older mom, too, so I expect that has something to do with it. My abdomen still hurts sometimes, especially when the baby steps on it or bounces on me. The right side of the scar pulls sometimes and is uncomfortable.

I had an emergency C because the baby's heart rate kept wiping out (his cord was wrapped around his neck). I am not disappointed in myself or my body for getting a c/s. I was and am relieved to have given birth (through a c/s) to a healthy baby. I did experience substantial PPD, but I don't really think it was directly related to the c/s. Yes, it was major surgery! My OB told DH that cutting through 6 layers of muscle/tissue/etc. was a whole lot to recover from. Those are my thoughts. Thanks for starting this thread.

p.s.: Like a PP, I had horrible constipation (I took stool softeners, drank lots--tons--of water, but an enema finally did the trick). Ah, the indignities of recovery.


----------



## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caedenmomma*
> 
> I am 13 months PP. This may sound really superficial, but I am so uncomfortable with how my body still looks: I am also realizing that, regardless of how many walks I take (toting my 30 pound son along) or how much I watch what I eat, I am always going to have a gut. I guess this is from the c/s? My older son (a teen) suggested I get an "Ab Lounger" (he watches a lot of t.v. at my ex's). I am an older mom, too, so I expect that has something to do with it. My abdomen still hurts sometimes, especially when the baby steps on it or bounces on me. The right side of the scar pulls sometimes and is uncomfortable.


I am an older mom, too, and my gut is still hanging around in all its stretch-marked glory (DD is now 31 months, so yeah, it's been awhile). But I have also noticed that slowly (very slowly!) my body is changing (in a good way) as I improve my diet and get lots of exercise, so maybe it's just that we older moms take longer to recover. At 13 months PP I barely looked different than I did at 6 weeks PP! I think that the crazy sleep deprivation during the first year made it very, very hard for me to recover & lose weight. I don't know if you're in the same boat in that department, but I just want to offer encouragement that getting back in shape may take a long time for us "old" moms, but that doesn't mean it can't happen!

It took a crazy long time for my scar to be comfortable most of the time. It still pulls a little, but for the most part I can exercise the way I want to now and it feels fine.

Next project: weaning DD and hoping that my boobs shrink back to their normal size!!!


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

Question for you ladies. I am 9 days post-C/S and pushed things a bit too hard today. We went to the mall for a few hours and I wore DD in the sling for most of it. As we were getting ready to leave, I started feeling uncomfortable twinges on the left side of my incision. Now I have this hard nodule about an inch long on that side of my incision. It doesn't hurt any more than the rest of the incision and the twinges have stopped. Could that be the incision bleeding on the inside or does it just sound like a bit of swelling? I definitely plan on doing nothing but laying around for the next several days!

One good thing happened today. I took my steri strips off. Whoever suggested taking them off in the shower, THANK YOU. I feel much better, those things were itchy. I'm having a tough evening emotionally, though. I'm having dinner with my brother, SIL, and parents next week. My SIL is an RN and she and my mom are going to go on and on about how glad they are that I ended up in the hospital. DD was a footling breech and I had an emergency C/S under general and you're GLAD?? You're HAPPY that everything got screwed up so badly that I not only had to go to the last place I wanted to be, but be put under general anesthesia and have my baby in the special care nursery for two days? Gee, thanks. I am so dreading this dinner.


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## alittlesandy (Jan 20, 2010)

I had a c-section two years ago, and boy does this thread bring back memories. I had horrible constipation, and when things finally "resolved" I joked with my husband that I got my natural child birth after all. Lol! Seriously, I spent hours on the toilet moaning and breathing and pushing.

I just want to say that it took 6 months for me to feel completely normal again, and even now my scar pulls and burns and itches sometimes. I'm not saying this to be a downer, but only because so few people talk about it or warn you about it.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *minkajane*
> 
> Question for you ladies. I am 9 days post-C/S and pushed things a bit too hard today. We went to the mall for a few hours and I wore DD in the sling for most of it. As we were getting ready to leave, I started feeling uncomfortable twinges on the left side of my incision. Now I have this hard nodule about an inch long on that side of my incision. It doesn't hurt any more than the rest of the incision and the twinges have stopped. Could that be the incision bleeding on the inside or does it just sound like a bit of swelling? I definitely plan on doing nothing but laying around for the next several days!
> 
> ...


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## mi_amor (Nov 5, 2009)

Thank you for having this thread. I was planning on a home birth, and a fairly straight forward labour with my second baby, but he is a footling breech which no one will deliver. I tried EVERYTHING I possibly could to flip this little guy, but I know in my heart that he seems really stuck. We even tried an ECV to hope he'd turn, but he just sprung right back into breech. So I will possibly be having my c/s on Monday if the OBGYN can backdoor me in. I have a very active toddler, and am worried about getting well fast so I can keep up with him. I enjoyed reading everyone's tips, and think all of you are very brave women.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *minkajane*
> 
> One good thing happened today. I took my steri strips off. Whoever suggested taking them off in the shower, THANK YOU. I feel much better, those things were itchy. I'm having a tough evening emotionally, though. I'm having dinner with my brother, SIL, and parents next week. My SIL is an RN and she and my mom are going to go on and on about how glad they are that I ended up in the hospital. *DD was a footling breech and I had an emergency C/S under general and you're GLAD?? You're HAPPY that everything got screwed up so badly that I not only had to go to the last place I wanted to be, but be put under general anesthesia and have my baby in the special care nursery for two days? Gee, thanks.* I am so dreading this dinner.


Bolding mine of course. What would be wrong with just saying this? I've had a lot of people tell me after feeling the majority of my 2CS (parts I wasn't supposed to), screaming on the table, having DD taken to NICU for a week, etc. tell me 'Well, all that matters is she is here and healthy', and I've said, 'Well, no, that's not all that mattered to me, and it was really hard, and I really wish it would have been different in a variety of ways.' I can't express the amount of empowerment I felt saying that. I felt like I could speak up for myself and say how I felt and not feel like I had to go with the emotional pain those words caused me.

Sure, let them be glad, but inside, you can still hurt, and I think that your family probably cares about you and if you are hurting, maybe they don't know what to say to make it better, and I feel, letting them know when they say stuff like this that it more hurtful, is a way of telling them, 'don't do that, it doesn't help.'

Just my thoughts


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

Well, thankfully, my worst fears did not come true. SIL didn't come and my mom didn't say anything about the hospital. I am very relieved! As necessary as my second C/S was, it was still difficult and I'm still recovering physically and emotionally and that conversation was the last thing I needed.


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## babygrey (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi mamas. This thread has been staring at me since I was pg and I didn't dare click it bc I didn't want to jinx myself or something LOL.

But. Here I am 6 weeks out from my first c-section. Is it okay if I just jump in?

Can I just say to mamas who understand: my c/s sucked. It was necessary, and my mw and I tried EVERYTHING, so at least I don't have the doubt... but... gah.. it sucked. and..IDK... I feel like I've been really ignoring it because it was 'necessary', so, ya know, thank the stars for the healthy baby and move on or something? Any thoughts on how to start gently processing?

You know what is really bothering me, actually? I *can't stand* how my incision/scar and surrounding tissue has no feeling. Like, it makes my skin crawl to touch it and I can't stand to have clothing hit the area, bc then it is obvious that is is numb. I'm totally put off by it. I couldn't even manage to work up the nerve to pull my steri strips off until almost 4 weeks out bc I couldn't stand that I couldn't feel the skin they were pulling against. Heaven help me if someone else ever needs/wants to touch that area







I guess I never realized or thought about the fact that the nerves would be cut? Just... ew... can anyone relate? I have no idea why this is such a big deal to me, TBH. I feel kind of silly, but it is a HUGE deal.

For those longer out from their births- really, how long did the feeling take to come back? Does it feel like your old body?

ETA: you know what else really bothers me? The fact that, whenever how my babies were born comes up, I feel like I have to defend that I didn't *choose* the c/s. Part of this is the twin thing; everyone just assumes you will deliver by c/s and, of course, I was going to be the one who didn't. But, bc o that, I feel like I have to tell everyone about how it is still possible to have twins vaginally, even tho I'm now an example of when you can't and I find myself adding on to the birth discussion with "no! not elective! I even had an OB who would have done baby A breech and I fought the hospital to let me have my vaginal birth outside of the OR and I even wasn't going to get the epidural for my potential breech extraction...and.. and..!" aaanyway.... ugh.


----------



## alittlesandy (Jan 20, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *babygrey*
> 
> You know what is really bothering me, actually? I *can't stand* how my incision/scar and surrounding tissue has no feeling. Like, it makes my skin crawl to touch it and I can't stand to have clothing hit the area, bc then it is obvious that is is numb. I'm totally put off by it. I couldn't even manage to work up the nerve to pull my steri strips off until almost 4 weeks out bc I couldn't stand that I couldn't feel the skin they were pulling against. Heaven help me if someone else ever needs/wants to touch that area
> 
> ...


I just want to say that I know exactly how you feel. I had to buy new underwear because I couldn't stand the way the waistband of my old underwear would touch the scar. I want to reassure you that while it took almost a year, I really feel normal again. I just reached down and touched my scar, and it's not nearly as numb or sensitive. I would say may body is probably 90% what it was. I felt MUCH better at six months out, and now, two years later, I rarely think about it. It does itch or burn sometimes, for a few seconds.


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## lawmama1984 (Mar 17, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *babygrey*
> 
> Hi mamas. This thread has been staring at me since I was pg and I didn't dare click it bc I didn't want to jinx myself or something LOL.
> 
> ...


I have that numbness around the incision area and I HATE it with a passion! I don't even like wearing my maternity undies (which I used to really like) because they rub right along there and it makes me batty. I have started Mayan abdominal massage in preparation for our next pregnancy because I experienced some adhesions during my HBAC attempt which led to me freaking out thinking I was rupturing. Anyway, the MT said that a lot of times, the massage can help return feeling to the area.

As for your "ETA" , I know exactly what you mean. My first c/s babe was 9.2# just shy of 39 weeks. My HBAC attempt babe was 10.8# at over 41. As soon as people hear his weight, they say "OMG he was a c/s, right?" or something along those lines. I really, really hate that and I always want to follow up with the story of the 4'11" woman my MWs delivered who had a 10# HBAC. Or my friend from my DDC here on Mothering who had a 10.2# HBAC. I just hate the assumption that because a baby is big, they were automatically a cesarean, even though both mine were. So I can definitely understand where you are coming from with the twin thing. One piece of advice that I thought was really great (and I got from the 10.2# HBAC mom) was, when people ask that question, to just tell them the whole story. What they are trying to do is boil down your birth experience to that one moment when the baby emerges and basically make the birth all about that. But, no, that's not the whole story. So, if they want to ask, go ahead and give them the whole thing. Now, I start out with how he was a planned home birth, my waters ruptured, labor didn't start immediately after, we were home for about 36 hours inducing cx with pumping and castor oil, on and on and on. I think it makes a lot of people sorry they asked, but you know what? Better they are uncomfortable than me--just saying "yes, he was a c/s" really bothered me because I felt that it took away from all the hard work we did and also might contribute to the idea that all big babies have to be cesareans. So, anyway, that's just what I have started doing....you might give it a try  And I think there is a way to do it so that you don't feel like you are having to "justify" your birth, but rather to share information and make sure you aren't leaving people with the impression that all twins/big babies/whatever do have to be born by cesarean, know what I mean?

As for the "choice" thing, I think a lot of people misunderstand the difference between consenting to a cesarean and choosing one. For me, I am really offended when people say I "chose" a cesarean. I *chose* an HBAC but *consented* to a cesarean when there was evidence that it might be in the best interest of myself and my baby.


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## hasya (Jun 27, 2010)

I had reasonable energy levels by 3 months, decent by 6 months. 1 year out and my scar still is tender if touched. Feeling came back bit by bit. I didn't notice the numbness so much after a while. Good luck! Hugs!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *babygrey*
> 
> Hi mamas. This thread has been staring at me since I was pg and I didn't dare click it bc I didn't want to jinx myself or something LOL.
> 
> ...


----------



## hannybanany (Jun 3, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *minkajane*
> 
> Well, thankfully, my worst fears did not come true. SIL didn't come and my mom didn't say anything about the hospital. I am very relieved! As necessary as my second C/S was, it was still difficult and I'm still recovering physically and emotionally and that conversation was the last thing I needed.


So glad it went better than you expected.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *babygrey*
> 
> .
> 
> ...


Honestly, it took a couple of years for me to regain feeling around my incision, and even 5.5 years after my first cs it still hadn't completely returned.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lawmama1984*
> 
> As for your "ETA" , I know exactly what you mean. My first c/s babe was 9.2# just shy of 39 weeks. My HBAC attempt babe was 10.8# at over 41. As soon as people hear his weight, they say "OMG he was a c/s, right?" or something along those lines. I really, really hate that and I always want to follow up with the story of the 4'11" woman my MWs delivered who had a 10# HBAC. Or my friend from my DDC here on Mothering who had a 10.2# HBAC. I just hate the assumption that because a baby is big, they were automatically a cesarean, even though both mine were. So I can definitely understand where you are coming from with the twin thing. One piece of advice that I thought was really great (and I got from the 10.2# HBAC mom) was, when people ask that question, to just tell them the whole story. What they are trying to do is boil down your birth experience to that one moment when the baby emerges and basically make the birth all about that. But, no, that's not the whole story. So, if they want to ask, go ahead and give them the whole thing. Now, I start out with how he was a planned home birth, my waters ruptured, labor didn't start immediately after, we were home for about 36 hours inducing cx with pumping and castor oil, on and on and on. I think it makes a lot of people sorry they asked, but you know what? Better they are uncomfortable than me--just saying "yes, he was a c/s" really bothered me because I felt that it took away from all the hard work we did and also might contribute to the idea that all big babies have to be cesareans. So, anyway, that's just what I have started doing....you might give it a try  And I think there is a way to do it so that you don't feel like you are having to "justify" your birth, but rather to share information and make sure you aren't leaving people with the impression that all twins/big babies/whatever do have to be born by cesarean, know what I mean?


Ah yes. People hear how big DS was and that I had a c section and assume that it was because of his size. Then I feel the need to explain that no, we were planning a natural birth but after PROM, fever, baby trying to emerge forehead first and 3 hours of pushing a csec was necessary. His size (9 12, so not that big) had absolutely nothing to do with how he was born.

As for me, I have decided that I can't keep labeling DS's birth as a "failed VBAC". What is it that people say - CBAC?

I can't touch my scar yet, I can wash it with a washcloth, dry it, etc, but I can't touch it with my bare hand. It doesn't hurt at all and I can touch around it... so it's not physical. I don't know. Some kind of weird emotional/mental block deal I guess.

Happy Mother's Day!


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## lawmama1984 (Mar 17, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hannybanany*
> 
> As for me, I have decided that I can't keep labeling DS's birth as a "failed VBAC". What is it that people say - CBAC?


Oh, yeah, I don't refer to DS2's birth as a failed anything--I call it a CBAC or HBAC attempt as well. I had a great birth and was treated really respectfully during my transfer and at the follow ups at the delivering OB's office. The one complaint I had was at my first PP visit, his nurse opened my chart, scanned it and said "Oh, that's right, you were the failed VBAC." I know it's really common to refer to it like this for CPs, but it really rubs me the wrong way. Like, do you say to a primapara (or a multipara with no previous c/s) who winds up with a c/s, "Oh, you were the failed vaginal birth?" Of course not! And it seems to me, attaching words like "fail" WRT birthing (including the FTP dx) can leave a woman feeling like somehow she wasn't good enough, or didn't trust her body enough, or whatever....like she did something wrong, know what I mean? So, all that to say, I have never referred to it as a failed VBAC--only a CBAC or an attempted HBAC.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

My scar is still kinda numb. It took me a long time till I was even able to look at it, let alone touch it. The thought of it was stomach turning. For me, it was all about how I felt about my scar. For a while, it was the representation that I had 'failed' my HBAC. And I hated it, and didn't want it there and I was saddened by it. Then it was the evidence of my kids' births and the trauma and the pain that went with that. I was angry towards it and felt guilt. Now I'm in a different stage where I can look at it as the passage my children coming into my life. I think it's a growth thing. It interesting to me to look back and see the different places I had been and how I felt about it.

I like CBAC. I like just simply being able to call it a birth. I can say, "when my kids were born..." instead of "When I had my cesarean..." It was a birth, no matter the planning or the events behind it. I still gave birth to my kids. I can now separate that from the trauma that did go on at each of their births.


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## _ktg_ (Jul 11, 2008)

I am ok with the phrasing "failed vbac" for myself. I think because I work and see other medical treatments where the phrase is used frequent ie. failed medical therapy that I don't consider it a reflection upon me as a person that I failed somehow in the process.

I will say - it took sometime to come to that place and actually I had a harder time with my 1st c/s in recognizing that I didn't "fail" at birthing my child vaginally than I did with my failed VBAC.

I also like my scar - I see it as battle wound on how I fought to bring my kids into the world, it is apart of me and my experiences in life.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

I can barely see my scar! It's hidden in my pubic hair. And the docs did a good job stitching me up in a way that minimizes the appearance of the scar. I do have a firm ridge of flesh that I can feel along my scar line...almost like a fold in my muscles, hard to describe. I'm not so fond of that firm ridge, but I suppose it's here to stay.

It's funny how language affects each of us differently. I haven't been able to bring myself to say "I gave birth to my daughter." I don't have trouble calling her birth a birth, or saying that she was born. But just the "I gave birth" thing...I can't quite do it. I guess it's just a vestige of my shame about the whole thing, but I feel like *I* didn't give birth to her, the surgeons did. At any rate, it is helpful for me to hear other mamas who have had c-sections say "I gave birth"...a reminder to me that I can think of myself as a mama who gave birth if I choose to. And I'm working towards being comfortable with that.

I also totally respect mamas who have other language that they use to describe their experiences. For many of us, so many choices were taken away, at the very least we can choose for ourselves the words in which we tell our stories.


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## lawmama1984 (Mar 17, 2009)

I love this post, CI Mama. I think it's really important to be sensitive to how language can affect everyone differently. I have found that it is best to follow a mom's lead with regards to how she describes her birth and feelings around it. What makes me uncomfortable may have no effect on someone else, while something they find really hurtful I may not even think twice about.


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## AustinMom (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> I can barely see my scar! It's hidden in my pubic hair. And the docs did a good job stitching me up in a way that minimizes the appearance of the scar. I do have a firm ridge of flesh that I can feel along my scar line...almost like a fold in my muscles, hard to describe. I'm not so fond of that firm ridge, but I suppose it's here to stay.
> 
> ...


I really like what you said and I think it's great that you can be honest with yourself and real with the way you feel. A birth experience is so personal to the mother, and it's really her who should be defining it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lawmama1984*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very true.


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## chrisnjeri (Apr 28, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *_ktg_*
> 
> I also like my scar - I see it as battle wound on how I fought to bring my kids into the world, it is apart of me and my experiences in life.


I so appreciate this! Yes, there are things about my daughter's delivery that I really wish were different. And no, I did not get the unmedicated water birth that we wanted for our LO. But I labored for 73 hours and we tried so very hard. I now see my scar as a symbol of what a strong mama I am, and everything that led to this point makes me who I am today.


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## jenniferadurham (Apr 6, 2008)

YES YES YES! To the last few posts. I am not comfy saying "gave birth" either, bc in my eyes I didn't. I had a baby yes, but didn't birth him. My scar is getting smaller. Here's the weird thing...I'm more sensitive above my section scar...all the way up to my belly button. It's my warrior wound! Lol


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## hannybanany (Jun 3, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> I can barely see my scar! It's hidden in my pubic hair. And the docs did a good job stitching me up in a way that minimizes the appearance of the scar. I do have a firm ridge of flesh that I can feel along my scar line...almost like a fold in my muscles, hard to describe. I'm not so fond of that firm ridge, but I suppose it's here to stay.
> 
> ...


Yes!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jenniferadurham*
> 
> YES YES YES! To the last few posts. I am not comfy saying "gave birth" either, bc in my eyes I didn't. I had a baby yes, but didn't birth him. My scar is getting smaller. Here's the weird thing...I'm more sensitive above my section scar...all the way up to my belly button. It's my warrior wound! Lol


I'm tender above my scar, too. Wonder why?

It took me a long time to be able to say that I "gave birth" to DD1. It was probably after my VBAC that I realized that whether the baby come out of a cut in my belly or my vagina I did indeed give birth.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I've had extreme tenderness - almost felt like a sunburn - from my scar to my navel, in the middle, with two of my sections. It's not uncommon. I'm not sure if you two have the same thing or not, but if it is, it will probably go away eventually. Mine lasted several months in the extreme phase, and then was very tender for several months after that. But, I have none of the tenderness now. I've heard that it's related to nerve damage.


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## Ms. B. Sprout (Nov 30, 2006)

Hi mamas. I've had two unwanted c-sections, one in 2006 and then my "failed VBAC" in 2008. Both were planned to be natural hospital births. Now I am planning an HBA2C. We'll see how it goes, huh?

I just wanted to pop in and give a very big THANK YOU to all of the posters in this thread. I've been reading here for a long time without posting. There are so many thoughtful posts, and I really enjoy reading all of them. This has been a very supportive and healing thread for me.


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## lawmama1984 (Mar 17, 2009)

Hi, Mrs. B! I am new here too, but just wanted to say ITA! This is such a wonderful thread! And best wishes on your HBA2C! You are going to have a fabulous birth


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## lawmama1984 (Mar 17, 2009)

I just wanted to share this beautiful blog post that a friend of mine shared with me. It brought tears to my eyes--it is really beautiful and powerful. I hope you enjoy it

http://avital.blogspot.com/2011/01/cesarean-courage.html#axzz1ML128XRu


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

It's interesting regarding the language thing- I never felt any issue with saying I gave birth-(because of having birthed through c section) I mean, I conceived, carried, and birthed my son. I have heard other people discuss this issue before- that they didn't feel that they gave birth- I guess I can understand it intellectually, but in my feelings on it, the baby grew inside of me and then was born- I gave birth!

I think that every birth is a courageous and heroic experience. It takes whole lot of courage and giving oneself over whether one has an intervention free birth, an epi, a c section, etcetera.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snapdragon*
> 
> It's interesting regarding the language thing- I never felt any issue with saying I gave birth-(because of having birthed through c section) I mean, I conceived, carried, and birthed my son. I have heard other people discuss this issue before- that they didn't feel that they gave birth- I guess I can understand it intellectually, but in my feelings on it, the baby grew inside of me and then was born- I gave birth!
> 
> ...


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

storm bride- hmm, interesting perspective. your post makes me realize how different it all is for each of us, and how our own experiences and life stories and beliefs and everything effect how we think about our births. I felt courageous in my birth, so I made that statement- but maybe everyone doesn't? I don't know- I am sorry you felt that your births weren't courageous- .


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lawmama1984*
> 
> I just wanted to share this beautiful blog post that a friend of mine shared with me. It brought tears to my eyes--it is really beautiful and powerful. I hope you enjoy it
> 
> http://avital.blogspot.com/2011/01/cesarean-courage.html#axzz1ML128XRu


Thank you for sharing this blog. It brought tears to my eyes, too. And it has me thinking a lot about what courage really is. I feel very humbled by my birthing experience, and I struggle to find a definition of courage that is reconcilable with deep humility. Like so many things with DD's birth, this is a place where I have to stretch further than I ever have before. I couldn't open my body in the way I thought was necessary in order to birth her, but I had to open my mind much much wider than I ever would have thought possible in order to make room for a c-section. When I say I had to open my mind, I mean so wide that it sort of broke...it was like the death of my Ego. I don't know how else to explain it. I don't know if there was courage in having the c-section, but I do feel that it has taken courage to put my wounded mind back together, to get my Ego back to a place where I can function (mostly) normally.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*


I don't know why the quote thing isn't working! Urg...

Lisa, your story is complex and has some very difficult chapters, and you've been extremely generous in sharing it, even though it sometimes makes you uncomfortable to do so. I have always been struck with how articulate you are in laying out what happened, with an unflinching honesty and clarity. I have seen you be determined and persistent in giving your perspective and not backing down from it, even when doing so is not popular or well received by the MDC audience. Some who are strongly opinionated in these forums also project a sort of hardness in their thinking, an unwillingness to hear other points of view, but with your posts I feel like you are really listening & absorbing what others are saying & responding from that place. You have provided a wealth of information & support to women who have been through multiple c-sections and other difficult experiences. You are the only authority on your own birthing experiences and the only person who can tell those stories and what they mean. If you say you were a spineless coward in the delivery room, I believe you. But I want you to know that I see bucketloads of courage in the way that you make yourself present here on these forums, and I appreciate the hell out of your willingness to keep sharing your story.


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## lawmama1984 (Mar 17, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> Lisa, your story is complex and has some very difficult chapters, and you've been extremely generous in sharing it, even though it sometimes makes you uncomfortable to do so. I have always been struck with how articulate you are in laying out what happened, with an unflinching honesty and clarity. I have seen you be determined and persistent in giving your perspective and not backing down from it, even when doing so is not popular or well received by the MDC audience. Some who are strongly opinionated in these forums also project a sort of hardness in their thinking, an unwillingness to hear other points of view, but with your posts I feel like you are really listening & absorbing what others are saying & responding from that place. You have provided a wealth of information & support to women who have been through multiple c-sections and other difficult experiences. You are the only authority on your own birthing experiences and the only person who can tell those stories and what they mean. If you say you were a spineless coward in the delivery room, I believe you. But I want you to know that I see bucketloads of courage in the way that you make yourself present here on these forums, and I appreciate the hell out of your willingness to keep sharing your story.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I've had a window open to reply to the two of you all day, and I just don't know what to say. So, I'll just say "thank you". Sometimes, I wonder why I still talk about it, but I think it's partly because it seems like a betrayal of Aaron's memory to just sweep it all under the rug...and maybe even a betrayal of me. It's hard to know where the line is between remembering and wallowing, though...


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## lawmama1984 (Mar 17, 2009)

I just wanted to tell you that I have seen so many of your posts around here (on Mothering), Storm Bride, and I am always so impressed with you. I never could really find the appropriate time or place to say it, but it seems it is here. CI Mama said exactly how I felt, so I just quoted her, even though I wish I had my own words for you...I just don't think I could have said it better. You are such a light to so many, and I am sure there are others, like me, who feel the same way, but struggle with the words or timing to tell you so. You are an amazing human being.


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## amydiane (Feb 4, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lawmama1984*
> 
> I just wanted to tell you that I have seen so many of your posts around here (on Mothering), Storm Bride, and I am always so impressed with you. I never could really find the appropriate time or place to say it, but it seems it is here. CI Mama said exactly how I felt, so I just quoted her, even though I wish I had my own words for you...I just don't think I could have said it better. You are such a light to so many, and I am sure there are others, like me, who feel the same way, but struggle with the words or timing to tell you so. You are an amazing human being.


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## Arete (Aug 1, 2010)

I envy a lot of the women on this thread. It's been over 10 months and I nowhere near being at peace with my c/s and fear I never will be. Please don't anyone think my language here is meant to apply to them, but I have to be honest and say how I feel about myself. My membranes ruptured and after over 50 hours of trying everything I never went into labor and was sent from my birth center to the hospital, where the thing happened. And I absolutely felt and feel like a failure--a lemon, a dud. Also, my only language for the operation has be words like butchered, gutted, eviscerated. And I hate my scar more than anything. I hate knowing I'll have to look at it for the rest of my life and never forget what happened that day. It's like a slave brand to me, because I am a slave to the memory. And yes, I have seen a psychologist about this. Two, in fact. I am hoping and praying that in a year or so I'll get to experience an HBAC. If I don't, I don't know what it will do to me. Well, that's the ugly truth.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arete*
> 
> I envy a lot of the women on this thread. It's been over 10 months and I nowhere near being at peace with my c/s and fear I never will be.


I am sorry you are having a hard time. I just want to say that 10 months out from my c-section, I was no where near being at peace with my c-section and was in fact consumed with processing my experience. In my experience, the first year--and getting through DD's first birthday--was the hardest. The second year was less intense. The third year is better still. Time really does help. You may never be totally "at peace" with the experience, but it will likely get easier to cope. We human beings are resilient creatures.

Hang in there, mama, and post here for support whenever you want. We are in many stages of healing and we can help each other.


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## Ms. B. Sprout (Nov 30, 2006)

Thank you! I hope you're right! I go back and forth between thinking "bring it on, I can do this thing," and feeling pretty anxious about all the things that could send me to the hospital for the third c/s. I am doing what I can to create optimal conditions -- the rest is a dice roll.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lawmama1984*
> 
> Hi, Mrs. B! I am new here too, but just wanted to say ITA! This is such a wonderful thread! And best wishes on your HBA2C! You are going to have a fabulous birth


I want to reiterate CI Mama's point about the passage of time. I have had two very unwanted c/s. With my first c/s, I did not do any real mental/emotional healing and I got pg again 13 months afterward. With my second c/s, I was in a terrible mental place for something on the order of 2 1/2 years before I really was able to start putting the pieces back together again. I had my first awful birth experience in March 2006, my second in January of 2008, and I did not experience any real healing or feeling better about things until the summer of 2010. It can be a long process.

It may take time, but you can do it, Arete. It will get easier. I am so sorry that things are so difficult right now.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> I am sorry you are having a hard time. I just want to say that 10 months out from my c-section, I was no where near being at peace with my c-section and was in fact consumed with processing my experience. In my experience, the first year--and getting through DD's first birthday--was the hardest. The second year was less intense. The third year is better still. Time really does help. You may never be totally "at peace" with the experience, but it will likely get easier to cope. We human beings are resilient creatures.
> 
> Hang in there, mama, and post here for support whenever you want. We are in many stages of healing and we can help each other.


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> It's funny how language affects each of us differently. I haven't been able to bring myself to say "I gave birth to my daughter." I don't have trouble calling her birth a birth, or saying that she was born. But just the "I gave birth" thing...I can't quite do it. I guess it's just a vestige of my shame about the whole thing, but I feel like *I* didn't give birth to her, the surgeons did. At any rate, it is helpful for me to hear other mamas who have had c-sections say "I gave birth"...a reminder to me that I can think of myself as a mama who gave birth if I choose to. And I'm working towards being comfortable with that.
> 
> I also totally respect mamas who have other language that they use to describe their experiences. For many of us, so many choices were taken away, at the very least we can choose for ourselves the words in which we tell our stories.


I too struggle with saying "I gave birth" because I didn't. I mean I did, but I didn't, you know? I feel like my one job was to get her into the world peacefully, without injury or trauma, and I failed my very first job as a mom. But I'm slowly moving past it. She doesn't hold it against me, so why should I... Of course when others say "I gave birth" meaning via section I don't think twice about it. Just my personal hang up.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *lawmama1984*
> 
> I just wanted to tell you that I have seen so many of your posts around here (on Mothering), Storm Bride, and I am always so impressed with you. I never could really find the appropriate time or place to say it, but it seems it is here. CI Mama said exactly how I felt, so I just quoted her, even though I wish I had my own words for you...I just don't think I could have said it better. You are such a light to so many, and I am sure there are others, like me, who feel the same way, but struggle with the words or timing to tell you so. You are an amazing human being.


Absolutely. Storm Bride, I have a lot of respect for you too.


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley*
> 
> Which is where the problem lies...(I shall read though this thread in all good time - so I hope to find others who feel like me...I can't be the only one and DH doesn't understand)...I want to be done. I want our family to be complete. I want this to be it. I want it just us and our two boys. I want to grow up and move on. *But I do not feel done and I do not feel complete. I NEED a vaginal birth. So much it feels like such great heartache. I really do need it. Sometimes I think I can live without it...but then I realise that one day I will be a mother-in-law and one day I will be a Grandmother...and I can't do it...I can't bear the though of it...I can't face that part of my life not having had a vaginal birth. * So right now, in 4-5 years time we will be trying again... Sometimes people ask me what I will do if, again, I 'need' another seciton (for whatever reason) and I can't bear the thought of it.
> 
> ...


This post has stayed with me for a while.

It took some figuring out why, and I think it's because of seeing the only healing being through a vaginal birth. I seriously think that that is what messed me up this failed VBAC. I kept hearing others saying how 'healing' a VBAC was, how it was the only way for them to process their c/s, that somehow, in my mind, it felt like there was no way to heal without having a vaginal birth.

And then, I didn't have a vaginal birth. So all of my emotions of my first c/s came crashing through, on top of which all the emotions of a second c/s and feeling like a 'failure' were stacked. No wonder I had such a hard time with it. I really feel it's a disservice to all the women who've had c/s and had emotional issues with it that the only way to heal is through a successful VBAC. It's damaging. In a way, it's telling a rape victim that until she can experience happy, fulfilling safe & wanted sex, she will never heal. That's just not true.

For me, if I had the ability to choose, would choose vaginal birth. However, I feel like I've come to a point in my journey where if I never have a successful VBAC, I will be okay with it. I ask myself if I want another child. And right now, in a few years (because I am so not having 2 in diapers!!!) I think I will want another child. Not because of the birth and potential to VBAC, but because I love my babies and feel like another little one would be right for me. I'm still working through a way to be completely okay with a c/s. I'm not sure if I will try for a VBA2C. My last 2 births have been long and painful. This last one broke me mentally. I'm not sure if I can put myself through another.

And the last thing I want to have happen is for me to put so much weight on a successful VBAC on myself that if I don't get it, it will put me through a loop. For some reason, I was not able to birth my 2 living babies vaginally. Maybe it's me grasping for straws, but there has to be a reason behind it. Had I not had a c/s with S, I wouldn't have waited so long to conceive E. Maybe God wants me to space them out more? Maybe my future child(ren) are not ready to be born sooner?

I know I might have gone off the deep end here, but I felt like I had to address your post, Ann. I feel like those of us who have had c/s need to process it without pinning our hopes on a 'good' birth, aka vaginal. And things can go wrong during vaginal birth. I feel like with E, perhaps I could have birthed him vaginally. But with his heart rate, I don't think I would have gotten a living baby. I have to remind myself that even people who VBAC, some of them don't view it as a 'success' due to other bad things (like dystocia, hemmoraghe, etc) happening during it. Reminding myself that birth is unpredictable and out of my hands is something I'm starting to really internalize and accept. I don't know why I've blathered on so long, but I hope I'm making sense.









Ami


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

To be honest, my second C/S helped me heal from my first, even though it was really scary and emergent. My first C/S was bullied and coerced and I feel totally unnecessary. I had a horrible reaction to the pain meds and was puking the whole day. With DD, I labored and pushed at home, then transfered to the hospital via ambulance for a C/S under general because DD was single-footling breech. I know for a fact that her C/S was 100% necessary and I didn't spend the whole day puking. Plus my postpartum nurses rocked. I am definitely disappointed, but I'm not bitter like I was after DS's C-section.

Everybody has their own path to healing. You just have to find it.


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## greenmulberry (Jan 11, 2009)

I am pretty OK with my c/s these days.

I was really really hoping to have a vaginal birth, and I do wonder if there were things that could have been done differently that would have not led to c/s, but, I just don't think about it much anymore, I realized I needed to just let it go. I am really enjoying having my baby and honestly, how she was born seems pretty irrelevant to me these days.

I don't want it to sound like I am saying those that are still struggling to process their c/s are wrong, everyone's feelings are personal and valid, but I think I can say that I feel OK about it now. I think I will try for a VBAC for next baby if things look like they are going to work out, but, I know that I might have to have another c/s, and that's OK by me too, even if I want to experience vaginal birth.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lawmama1984*
> 
> At the same time, I really relate to Ann_of_loxley. *I really can'*t *imagine living in a world where I'll never have a vaginal birth.* It may be my reality one day, but it is hard for me to imagine it. There is a huge part of me that feels a great need to birth a child vaginally. It's not because I think it will "heal" me in any way. I don't really feel like I need healing. Sometimes I wish I were just "normal" and *not have this strong desire to birth my children a certain way*. At the same time, this journey has literally changed my life--I've met some really amazing people I wouldn't otherwise have in my life but for my cesareans and my desire for a vbac. I'm so grateful for that.


I really hear you on the bolded. i still have trouble accepting it, and I had my tubes tied almost two years ago.

However, for me, it's not even about giving birth in a certain way. It's about giving birth. I can't (and wouldn't!) take away anyone else's feeling that they gave birth by cesarean, but I simply don't feel that way, or see it that way. I really wanted to have my own children (not adopted) and give birth to those children. I managed - after a long, long time - the first, but I'll never have the second. And, for me, a c-section simply isn't giving birth.


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## lawmama1984 (Mar 17, 2009)

Lisa, I really hear you and understand what you're saying. While, for me, a cesarean is giving birth, I completely sympathize with this point of view. Being able to see it from your POV, I think I can really relate to you. I sometimes wonder if my feelings on this might evolve once we are done having children and if I don't have a vaginal birth. Right now I don't think they would, but I can't be sure. I'm sure that, no matter how wonderful my births were (and my second one was), I would always mourn, in some ways, not having a vaginal birth.


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## Zan&Zav (Nov 25, 2006)

I love this thread. My first birth was in 2004. It was a hospital birth at 39 weeks. I was told because of my small size i would not be able to deliver without meds. I said watch me. 3 pushes, no meds 8 lb baby boy. So why couldn't I do it again?

The day before my oldest sons 2nd birthday at 25 weeks 1 day I began pouring blood in the middle of the mall. Alone with my small son. I called my father who rushed me to the hospital, where I was stabalized. Irritable uterus I was told but I was kept in the hospital on bed rest. The evening of the 5th day, I got out of bed to use the washroom and more blood. It was decided I would be airlifted to a larger hospital, with a larger NICU, 5 hrs away. My husband (we have since split up) decided he would drive up in a few days if anything happened and he left the hospital. The air ambulance was late. My parents left to drive to the city to meet me there. My water broke and I hemmoraged. My nurse ( I love that woman) called my parents and husband and got them back to the hospital as I was being wheeled into surgery.(The hemmoraging happened in a matter of about 5 mins after my parents left) The nurse told them she wanted them there to say goodbye, at this point they weren't sure I would make it. My husband was told to go with the nurse to wash up and she would bring him in when he was ready. He said no.

So, I got my spinal , I told the anethisiologist that if my son wasn't going to live I wanted to be awake for his birth. He was amazing. Very gentle, very kind. He turned out to be the only kind person in the OR. He held my hand the whole surgery, tried to joke with me. I love him to  I will never forget being tied to the bed, not able to see my baby. The sound of the staples going into my body. The docs rushing around to save my babys life. There were 16 people in the room. He was the only one who spoke to me. Until the surgeon came to the head of the bed. Her words to me were " well you should be ok. that baby is tiny I don't think he will make it. Oh and i messed up the incision so you can't have any more kids." She then walked out of the OR.

My son is 4.5 now and amazing. He was 1 lb 14 oz. He is 35lbs, a little tiny but fine. Smart, healthy, ACTIVE. Amazing little boy. To look at both my boys noone would ever know that their births were so differant. But I know and it hurts. But everything happens for a reason.

The surgeon who operated on me is no longer allowed to practice medicane. Her mistakes were huge. Because of my experience noone else will have to go through it with her. And the air ambulance being late? I was told after the fact, when the baby was stable and I was stable, that if it had been on time neither of us would have survived. We could not have been saved if it had been there when it was supposed to be there.

So, I struggle more with my c/s more because of how it went down, I know it had to happen, im angry at my body, but im more angry at the surgeon and my exhusband. It still sucks but gets easier.

ETA wow i think thats the first time i typed all that out. very theraputic.


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## Ms. B. Sprout (Nov 30, 2006)

Big, big hugs to you, Zan&Zav. Thank you for sharing your story.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zan&Zav*
> 
> I love this thread. My first birth was in 2004. It was a hospital birth at 39 weeks. I was told because of my small size i would not be able to deliver without meds. I said watch me. 3 pushes, no meds 8 lb baby boy. So why couldn't I do it again?
> 
> ...


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

Zan & Zav- wow, that is really intense. I am sorry you had to go through that. It is so great that your baby turned out to be well, and I am sorry you had to suffer all of that.

I am wondering about how people feel their body has changed from having a c section? I am feeling kind of down about my body changes right now. I had my c section 15 months ago. I just feel all out of whack! I thought I was okay, and I know I can get to a much better place than I am now. but before it, I used to do a lot of yoga and I felt pretty great in my body. I did yoga regularly for about 8 yrs or so prior to giving birth. Anyway, I ahve done maybe 2 yoga classes since my c section. Partially cause it is hard to find the time to do it now with the baby and I would rather sleep in on the weekend mornings when dh is home and in the evenings by the time he gets home I am not so motivated. but also cause my body just feels messed up. I feel really out of balance and that I am lacking core strength. My back is like stuck on kind of a bad position. Partially from the c section, partially probably from pregnancy, and then from carrying ds all the time and never giving the body a chance to heal up I guess.

I am finally going back to my chiropractor next week so I hope to see her once a week. the yoga class I did do felt good but oh man I was so weak! I did a beginner class with a teracher I have done classes with for yrs and I could barely get through it! I used to breeze through his intermedietes a couple times a week.

I am hoping that yoga and chiropractics ( I have a great gentle chiropractor) can help me regain some of my strength and ease and happy body. but I feel all weak right now and sore. And sort of bummed about it!

has anyone here who has had a c section gotten their core strength and a balnced body back? Or is it just an inherent loss?


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snapdragon*
> 
> I am hoping that yoga and chiropractics ( I have a great gentle chiropractor) can help me regain some of my strength and ease and happy body. but I feel all weak right now and sore. And sort of bummed about it!
> 
> has anyone here who has had a c section gotten their core strength and a balnced body back? Or is it just an inherent loss?


I've never been thin, and I haven't/didn't lose all the baby weight, but after having my first c/s, I gained back my core strength by about 1 year post-partum. Currently on my way there right now, only 9mos pp.

ETA: I'm not talking out of my bottom here either. I signed up with a personal trainer 20 some odd months after my first c/s and as a part of calibrating my fitness, he made me do a plank. I'm a chunky gal. He was AMAZED at how long I could hold it. In fact, he told me to stop so he could move on to other exercises.









For the core strength, I found babywearing to be really helpful. It's always challenging to the body because baby is putting on weight and getting squirmier. lol A lot of walking while babywearing, or holding the baby a lot around the house, squatting to pick them up, etc.

As for the balanced body--I think that's more easily attained when the kiddos are older. It wasn't until older ds was 2 that I finally was able to start running again and really dedicating the time and energy to losing weight and fitness. Of course, once that was well underway, I got knocked up with younger ds.









It takes a woman's body 1 year to fully heal from pregnancy and birth. Add in sleep deprivation, and I'd add many more months to that estimate. Are you still nursing a lot? I found that once the nursing tapered off, my body was able to use more energy towards repair/rebuilding as well.

To summarize this loooooong post, yes you can get your body back. Other than core strength, the c/s doesn't impact the rest of your fitness ability. And core strength is compromised in pregnancy anyways. So even the 'extra' hit isn't that far outside the normal range. Childbearing takes a lot out of the body, and while a c/s does have some impact, I think the majority is just normal pregnancy/nursing/hormones/caring for an infant stuff.

Ami


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

JTA mom thanks for the encouragement! It helps a lot! I thought about it after I posted this and realized it was one of those posts where I was having a down moment and needed to find reassurance- so for balance I will just ad that I don't always feel too badly! I do feel weaker in my core for sure and out of balance but I think I am finally catching my breath with this mothering thing enough that I may be able to start weekly yoga class and weekly chiropactor- and hopefully those things will help a lot, they were things that I did pre baby.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JTA Mom*
> 
> To summarize this loooooong post, yes you can get your body back. Other than core strength, the c/s doesn't impact the rest of your fitness ability. And core strength is compromised in pregnancy anyways. So even the 'extra' hit isn't that far outside the normal range. Childbearing takes a lot out of the body, and while a c/s does have some impact, I think the majority is just normal pregnancy/nursing/hormones/caring for an infant stuff.
> 
> Ami












My c-section was 33+ months ago, and I am finally starting to feel really good! But boy, has it been a long haul. In my case, I think being an "old" mom is a big factor (I was 38 when DD was born), plus the sleep deprivation (insane), plus working full-time and so having so little time for myself. My saving grace has been commuting by bicycle. It forces me to exercise vigorously every day, and that has made a critical difference in terms of losing weight and feeling stronger.

Don't give up on your body! We humans are remarkably resilient. If you have the time and resources to get chiropractic care & take yoga classes, you will definitely feel a difference in your body.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Snapdragon: My core is shot right now. I feel as though I'm never going to get it back. However, I have nerve damage from my third c-section, and it affects everything I try to do, physically, for my core. I also have a pretty bad diastasis (about 7-8 fingers), and one of the things affected by the nerve damage is my ability to do the Tupler technique exercises. So, there are big challenges. I'm trying to remind myself that I'm still only two years out from my last section, and am busy with the kids.

However, after my first, my body felt mostly normal, and I had most of my core back, within about a year. After dd1, I don't think it even took that long. IME, the bounce back varies a lot, and depends on many factors (I suspect age and body weight play a part, as do number of section, unusual circumstances such as the nerve damage...even how much you have to do at home, and how often you can work on it). I also suspect, from my own experiences this time around, that mental state plays a part. For many reasons, I've had a lot of trouble being persistent this time around. If I do some yoga, and it feels wrong (and it always does), I'm much more inclined than I previously was to just say, "screw this - I can't do yoga", because it's so upsetting to me.. I know I need to persist, but it's hard. So, even though it's been two years, I probably haven't made more than about two weeks of progress, because I keep giving up!

Hang in there. I don't believe you're going to be permanently messed up.


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## Snapdragon (Aug 30, 2007)

thanks guys! It really does help so much that so many other women have gone through this and end up okay


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Z&Z, I'm so sorry you had to go through that. And thanks for sharing your story, I know it is so hard. I haven't posted my birth story yet, although it wasn't as bad as yours. I've typed it a couple of times...DD is nearly 2.5 so its probably time to post it.

Thank you for sharing. Lots of healing hugs coming your way...


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