# I'm devastated, DS with multiple UTIs



## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

I've lost track of how many UTIs my 5yo has had this year. Circumcision is obviously not an option I will consider. Yesterday he had visible blood in his urine again, and this morning his urine smelled strongly of ammonia. I feel like I am in freefall. My crazy, abusive, narcissistic, and highly socially influential exH is pushing for circ, as are the doctors. DS has been diagnosed with phimosis. DS has said that he sometimes gets UTI symptoms that come and go, but he doesn't tell anyone because he doesn't want to go back to the doctor.

Some other details:
Doctor felt his belly and said he was constipated. Even though he goes at least once a day, she wants him going two or three times a day.

The pathogen has usually been E. coli.

DS should drink more water. Today I bought him a camelback that I will demand that he can wear all day at school. And I instructed him to finish all 32 oz every day.

His diet is not so great. I'm considering making him vegetarian, but I definitely need some direction for that. Should I ask the pediatrician for a referral to a dietician? I'm single, work full time, I don't have time to put a lot of thought into meals. It would be great to just open a folder and have it tell me what to make.

Something I noticed a few months ago, is that when he pees, he 'props' his penis on the waistband of his pants, but that squishes his penis, and I wonder if that is causing a mechanical 'stricture' impeding urine flow. I told him to stop doing that, but I don't know if he still does it sometimes.

Doctor said DS was dehydrated.

We have a family history of kidney stones. DS's dad had one, and my sister has had several. DS had a kidney/bladder ultrasound, and everything looked fine.

It's possible dehydration is causing some kind of crystals or sediment in the urine that cause irritation and subsequent infections. But the doctor said his urine tests don't look like someone who is a stone-former.

Also a family history of bladder cancer. Although all of these people smoked for decades.

DS has never been forcibly retracted.

The more UTI's DS gets, the thinner my argument sounds (even to my own ears) that I just don't 'believe' in circumcision. But I still find the idea of penile surgery appalling.









I _MUST_ find a way to stop these! I fear that my ex will be able to go to court and take control of medical decisions, and have DS circ'ed!


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## PGTlatte (Mar 7, 2004)

I have two thoughts that may help.

First, if you are not already, your son should be seeing a pediatric urologist......not just a pediatrician.

Second, I would get him on a high potency probiotic ASAP. I order ours from Kirkman. They are shipped in a cold pack and have to be kept refrigerated.

I hope you can get more help from a urologist.

Also, is it possible he is not drinking enough because of limited opportunity to use the bathroom at school ? I would get an order from the doctor that your son is to have completely unrestricted access to the bathroom at school.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

He is seeing a pediatric urologist.

I'll get some probiotics.

I did tell the K teachers about his condition and his need to be encouraged to drink water and go to the bathroom frequently. I don't know if it's in practice or not. I'll check in with them again on it.


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
I've lost track of how many UTIs my 5yo has had this year. Circumcision is obviously not an option I will consider. Yesterday he had visible blood in his urine again, and this morning his urine smelled strongly of ammonia. I feel like I am in freefall. My crazy, abusive, narcissistic, and highly socially influential exH is pushing for circ, as are the doctors. DS has been diagnosed with phimosis. DS has said that he sometimes gets UTI symptoms that come and go, but he *doesn't tell anyone* because he doesn't want to go back to the doctor.

I am sure you know that it needs to be made clear that he can come to you. It goes without saying that that can lead to a bad situation.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
Some other details:
Doctor felt his belly and said he was constipated. Even though he goes at least once a day, she wants him going two or three times a day.

The pathogen has usually been E. coli.

DS should drink more water. Today I bought him a camelback that I will demand that he can wear all day at school. And I instructed him to finish all 32 oz every day.

His diet is not so great. I'm considering making him vegetarian, but I definitely need some direction for that. Should I ask the pediatrician for a referral to a dietician? I'm single, work full time, I don't have time to put a lot of thought into meals. It would be great to just open a folder and have it tell me what to make.

Something I noticed a few months ago, is that when he pees, he 'props' his penis on the waistband of his pants, but that squishes his penis, and I wonder if that is causing a mechanical 'stricture' impeding urine flow. I told him to stop doing that, but I don't know if he still does it sometimes.

Doctor said DS was dehydrated.

We have a family history of kidney stones. DS's dad had one, and my sister has had several. DS had a kidney/bladder ultrasound, and everything looked fine.

It's possible dehydration is causing some kind of crystals or sediment in the urine that cause irritation and subsequent infections. But the doctor said his urine tests don't look like someone who is a stone-former.

Also a family history of bladder cancer. Although all of these people smoked for decades.

DS has never been forcibly retracted.

The more UTI's DS gets, the thinner my argument sounds (even to my own ears) that I just don't 'believe' in circumcision. But I still find the idea of penile surgery appalling.









I _MUST_ find a way to stop these! I fear that my ex will be able to go to court and take control of medical decisions, and have DS circ'ed!

[/quote]

You've covered a lot of the questions I would have asked. Especially, has he had more advanced tests to examine his kidneys and urinary tract. The answer seems to be yes and there is nothing abnormal. I thought about diet too but I am not aware of dietary issues that can directly increase risk of UTI. I have read here and elsewhere that drinking Cranberry juice (100% juice no added sweetner like corn syrup) and eating yogurts can reduce his risk a bit. Have you considered perhaps the juice and a yogurt in the morning and if you're packing lunches or snacks pack yogurt? I found this page that might help with food and meals:

http://www.remedy-bladder-infection....lmeasures.html

Finally, have you seen an intact friendly doctor whose diagnosis you might be more comfortable with?


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## glongley (Jun 30, 2004)

I do not have much to offer re: controlling the UTIs, but make sure he know to wash his hands after wiping or touching his bottom. Boys of this age explore their bodies, and may go from anus to foreskin, which can lead to infection.

My understanding is that the correlation between being intact and UTIs only applies in the first year of life. However, the correlation in itself is questionable. Here are a couple of articles to strengthen your argument for leaving your son's foreskin right where it is.

http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/kwak1/
Compared rates of UTIs in boys with urinary tract abnormalities after anti-reflux surgery. *There was no difference in the rate of UTIs in boys who were circumcised at the time of the anti-reflux surgery compared to the boys who had the anti-reflux surgery and were not circumcised.*

Van Howe, RS. Effect of confounding in the association between circumcision status and urinary tract infection. J Infect. 2005 Jul;51(1):59-68

[Paraphrased from the Abstract] Assuming that true urinary tract infection occurred equally regardless of circumcision status, the factors included in the model (differences in the rates of prematurity, of urine collection, of false positive urine specimens, and of health-seeking behaviors in infant boys based on circumcision status) could account for urinary tract infection being diagnosed 4.27 times more frequently in non-circumcised males under a year of age. Previously reported differences in the rate of urinary tract infection by circumcision status could be entirely due to sampling and selection bias. *Until clinical studies adequately control for sources of bias, circumcision should not be recommended as a preventive for urinary tract infection.*

Good luck! Gillian


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## RomanCarmelMom (Dec 2, 2008)

Your son needs to be seeing a specialist, and needs to be tested for kidney reflux.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fellow Traveler* 
I thought about diet too but I am not aware of dietary issues that can directly increase risk of UTI.

There is some evidence that constipation can cause UTIs, so we need him to eat more fiber and less protein. Yeah well, it's pretty hard to get a 5yo to eat a plethora of vegetables.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RomanCarmelMom* 
Your son needs to be seeing a specialist, and needs to be tested for kidney reflux.

He is seeing a pediatric urologist (group) at a children's hospital. We haven't tested for kidney reflux, and I'm rather resistant to put him through that procedure. I told them I won't do it unless DS was completely anesthetized. They said it doesn't work that way, so we are deadlocked.


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RomanCarmelMom* 
Your son needs to be seeing a specialist, and needs to be tested for kidney reflux.

Second that! Has your DS had a VCUG done? If not i would really push for it.

Also constipation can cause UTIs, if he is having formed hard BMs you might try giving him some extra pear or apple juice through out the day to help soften it up a bit.

Have you tired giving him coconut water? Try that for a few days and see if it helps with the dehydration. Also some cranberry juice, or the supplements would be even better to help with bladder health.


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
He is seeing a pediatric urologist (group) at a children's hospital. We haven't tested for kidney reflux, and I'm rather resistant to put him through that procedure. I told them I won't do it unless DS was completely anesthetized. They said it doesn't work that way, so we are deadlocked.

I understand your hesitation, but the VCUG test hurt less than a UTI where he has blood in his urine.

If he does have kidney reflux (depending on the level) he might just be put in long term antibiotics, so why not just see about doing that now until he gets them cleared up?

The danger with kidney reflux is that not only does it cause UTIs but each and ever UTI causes severe damage to the kidneys and if its a higher grade KR than it will eventually lead to kidney failure.....my aunt and my great grandmother both had to have kidney transplants because of KR.


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## RomanCarmelMom (Dec 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
He is seeing a pediatric urologist (group) at a children's hospital. We haven't tested for kidney reflux, and I'm rather resistant to put him through that procedure. I told them I won't do it unless DS was completely anesthetized. They said it doesn't work that way, so we are deadlocked.

I understand the Mama Bear instinct, but the pain of the procedure doesn't compare to constant pain from severe UTIs and from permanent kidney damage. If it goes untreated, he could end up with a future full of painful procedures that may have otherwise been avoided by going through this one.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

So why can't they do it under anesthesia?


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## Claire and Boys (Mar 27, 2007)

VCUG is horrible, I've had one, as I had recurrent UTIs as a child. But I still think it is worth doing it to try and find the underlying cause, and there most certainly is one, for him to have that many UTIs in a year.

It does sound like the doctor is going to be pushing for circ soon if they already diagnosed phimosis, which is ridiculous, because he's 5 years old and it's completely normal for him to not be retractable yet.

As far as I'm aware, the studies showing a reduction in UTIs only applied to the first year of life *anyway* so I'm not sure there's enough evidence to suggest being circed now would help.


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
So why can't they do it under anesthesia?

I don't know the answer to that but at this point I'd go for the VCUG. Unless there is another way to test for reflux.


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## TCA2008 (Nov 20, 2007)

My circumcised husband had numerous UTIs as an elementary aged boy - numerous - he indeed had reflux.

I would never recommend a VCUG for just one or two UTIs, but if he has had several, then it really is warranted. My husband ended up having surgery to correct his problem. Frequent UTIs and reflux should be taken seriously - my husband's sister also had reflux, and lost one of her kidneys because of it.

I truly understand why you do not want to traumatize your son - a VCUG is invasive - both of my sons went through it - I refused a follow up VCUG because it is so traumatic and my son (who was diagnosed with reflux), was not having repeat UTIs, however, I would have consented if he was having multiple UTIs because you don't want to mess around with reflux if it is serious, like I said, his aunt has only 1 kidney because of it.

Talk to your doctor, see if they might be willing to compromise and give him a sedative to reduce the trauma, but seriously, it is not normal for a 5 year old to have multiple UTIs - it's not uncommon for them to have 1 or 2 because they often touch their anal area, then their penis, but multiple UTIs are just not common. All the other suggestions like cranberry juice and probiotics are great, but if there is an anatomical problem going on, you want to find out sooner rather than later.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

But do you think the 'anatomical' problem might be that he is squishing the underside of his penis with his waistband while he urinates?


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
There is some evidence that constipation can cause UTIs, so we need him to eat more fiber and less protein. Yeah well, it's pretty hard to get a 5yo to eat a plethora of vegetables.

I would caution you against pushing fiber on him (extra veggies are fine of course), especially any kind of 'supplement' (see www.fibermenace.com). The constipation may be another symptom of what is going on, which sounds like a major imbalance in his flora, which starts in the gut but affects the whole body. Pure (unsweetened, unpasteurized if you can find it) cranberry juice, very strong probiotics (I recommend BioKult or Garden of Life), homemade yogurts (preferably from raw milk) are a start. I would start adding apple cider vinegar to his baths. He needs his protein and fats, and I would not convert him to vegetarianism at this point. But making his food the highest quality available (grassfed, organic, unprocessed) would be helpful.


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## TCA2008 (Nov 20, 2007)

one more comment - has your son had a renal ultrasound yet? This is not invasive and does not hurt. My 8 year old just had one and he thought it was cool, he got to see his kidneys on the screen and everything.

anyhow, before consenting to the VCUG with my 2nd son after a UTI, I had a renal ultrasound done first (since we had a serious family history of reflux problems)- the renal ultrasound did show reflux, so that is when I consented to the VCUG to determine the grade of reflux he had. I refused all follow up VCUGs because again, he didn't have any further UTIs so it seemed a moot point. But I did do a follow up renal ultrasound later, and since it didn't show problems, no follow up VCUG for us.

If you haven't done that, you could start there and see what those results show.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
But do you think the 'anatomical' problem might be that he is squishing the underside of his penis with his waistband while he urinates?

No, I don't. Its either due to the constipation (which stool is pushing up against his bladder causing pockets of urine to stay in the bladder) or its something internal.

Has the bacteria always been ecoli?

My daughter has had VCUG's, Urodynamic Studies and Renal Ultrasounds numerous times. She has never been scared or in pain during the procedures. Well with the Renal she giggles because of the gel on her.









If this is being done at a Children's Hospital they have Child Life Specialist that will keep your child comfortable and happy during the procedures.


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

ITA that a diagnosis of Phimosis is preposterous in a 5yo.

Is it possible that all these UTIs he's had this year are actually the same UTI? There are ABX resistant strains out there and you might not be completely getting rid of it and it just keeps reinfesting the bacteria until he starts showing symptoms again.


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## KatWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
ITA that a diagnosis of Phimosis is preposterous in a 5yo.

Is it possible that all these UTIs he's had this year are actually the same UTI? There are ABX resistant strains out there and you might not be completely getting rid of it and it just keeps reinfesting the bacteria until he starts showing symptoms again.

They should of tested the bacteria for resistance to the abx. Then they should of re-tested after the course of abx to make it was gone.

OP did they do this?


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## glongley (Jun 30, 2004)

Re: why can't they do a VCUG under general anesthesia. General anesthesia has definite risks - like blood pressure issues, aspiration, etc. There would have to be a good rationale for taking on those risks. I don't know exactly how a VCUG is done, but likely all he would have to deal with is getting catheterized and have the bladder filled with contrast dye, then having X ray pictures taken. Although nobody likes having tubes put in body orifices, this is benign enough that it just doesn't justify the risks of general anesthesia. Ask about what kind of sedation he can be given to keep him calm and comfortable. I agree, if this hasn't been done yet, it needs to be the next thing to help figure out what's going on.

Gillian


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

He's had renal ultrasound, and everything looked fine.

They did culture his urine several times. The first two were E. coli, the third was some kind of cocci, I don't remember what specificially. He's also had bacteria-free urine tests. They did do an antibiotic resistance test and gave him the drug that was supposed to best kill it. When it (the infection) came back, they gave him the same drug, even though we asked them to use a different class drug. He's also had bacteria-free urine tests that contained blood. The very first time he had visible blood in his urine, I took him right to urgent care, and his urine test there was perfectly normal, so the doctor just looked at me like I was stupid, and the nurse swore up and down that it must have been red food coloring. A few days later I had a very, very sick little boy, went back to the doctor, and he did indeed have a UTI.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

So do UTI's come FROM the kidneys???


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
ITA that a diagnosis of Phimosis is preposterous in a 5yo.


Yeah, I asked the urologist if hormones cause the foreskin to become stretchy, because we used betamethasone cream for a while, and it worked, temporarily. She said yes. I asked her if she thought my son has an endocrine disorder. She wouldn't give me a straight answer. She said he is still young. I asked if we could just wait for his natural hormones to kick in when he's older to cause retraction. She said it might happen when he's older, but he has a tendency to have phimosis, and it might be lifelong. He might never be retractable.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glongley* 
Re: why can't they do a VCUG under general anesthesia. General anesthesia has definite risks - like blood pressure issues, aspiration, etc. There would have to be a good rationale for taking on those risks. I don't know exactly how a VCUG is done, but likely all he would have to deal with is getting catheterized and have the bladder filled with contrast dye, then having X ray pictures taken. Although nobody likes having tubes put in body orifices, this is benign enough that it just doesn't justify the risks of general anesthesia. Ask about what kind of sedation he can be given to keep him calm and comfortable. I agree, if this hasn't been done yet, it needs to be the next thing to help figure out what's going on.

Gillian

Can't that be my decision to use GA?


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
Yeah, I asked the urologist if hormones cause the foreskin to become stretchy, because we used betamethasone cream for a while, and it worked, temporarily. She said yes. I asked her if she thought my son has an endocrine disorder. She wouldn't give me a straight answer. She said he is still young. I asked if we could just wait for his natural hormones to kick in when he's older to cause retraction. She said it might happen when he's older, but he has a tendency to have phimosis, and it might be lifelong. He might never be retractable.

She is absolutely WRONG! It's impossible to diagnose Phimosis in an unretractable child. It's not tight, it's attached. The cream worked temporarily because that's what it's supposed to do...then his foreskin went beck to it's natural state - attached! It will detach in it's own time and he is not prone to phimosis.

oh...and she wouldn't have made the wrong diagnosis if she hadn't been trying to forceably retract him which is a big NO NO. It can cause pain, microtears and lead to infections.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
She is absolutely WRONG! It's impossible to diagnose Phimosis in an unretractable child. It's not tight, it's attached. The cream worked temporarily because that's what it's supposed to do...then his foreskin went beck to it's natural state - attached! It will detach in it's own time and he is not prone to phimosis.

Actually, I'm pretty sure all the synechia is detached (and has been for a long time), since there is a slight ballooning all the way around when he pees. It's just the opening that is tight.


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## workjw (Apr 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
So do UTI's come FROM the kidneys???

No. UTIs start in the bladder, and if reflux is present the infection is able to move from the bladder into the kidneys. A UTI by itself is extremely uncomfortable, but not all that harmful. If the infections move into the kidney it can be very harmful.

I don't know of a urologist that would do an initial VCUG under GA. From what I understand, the reasoning is that being under anesthesia could cause the bladder to act differently, therefore the testing would be inaccurate. There is a follow up VCUG that can be done under sedation to monitor if reflux still exists after initial testing, but it cannot tell the grade/severity of the reflux.

DD has had a number of ultrasounds, none of which showed the numerous urinary issues that she has. They will generally show any significant scarring or abnormalities, but not always. In our case, they not show dd's extra ureters, reflux, kidney abnormalities or enlarged bladder.

As frightening as it seems, I would do the VCUG. Make sure before hand that the techs have experience with cath'ing an uncircumcised child, and as KatWrangler mentioned, you might want to contact Children's Life Services. They are excellent.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
oh...and she wouldn't have made the wrong diagnosis if she hadn't been trying to forceably retract him which is a big NO NO. It can cause pain, microtears and lead to infections.

I know, but something is wrong, and an exam is necessary.


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
Actually, I'm pretty sure all the synechia is detached (and has been for a long time), since there is a slight ballooning all the way around when he pees. It's just the opening that is tight.


That is a good thing! The sphincter is supposed to be tight to keep things out. Think about it this way...After you pass feces, your anal sphincter closed back up again - right? The same thing happens with the sphincter of the foreskin. Ballooning is perfectly normal and it may just be a sign that all the synechia are not free yet - again, perfectly normal at this age.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
Yeah, I asked the urologist if hormones cause the foreskin to become stretchy, because we used betamethasone cream for a while, and it worked, temporarily. She said yes. I asked her if she thought my son has an endocrine disorder. She wouldn't give me a straight answer. She said he is still young. I asked if we could just wait for his natural hormones to kick in when he's older to cause retraction. She said it might happen when he's older, but he has a tendency to have phimosis, and it might be lifelong. He might never be retractable.

The cream should never be used on a child only a boy in puberty or an adult male. For one thing the hormones for another it will tighten back down after treatment because there are no hormones to keep it that way.

My dd had the VCUG at 1 after a single UTI. If I had it to do over I wouldnt have had it after one. The VCUG is uncomfortable if you have ever had a cath. you know what I am talking about. The insert the cath. then put dye in and monitor the dye with a x ray like thing. DD wasnt in a lot of pain and your ds is old enough to understand what is happening if you explain it. You are allowed to be with him talking to him and watching. Which you need to do anyway to make sure they dont retract him.

I understand him needing an exam to see what is wrong but there is nothing to see by looking at his foreskin since it has nothing to do with UTI tight,retractable or what ever they are just not related in any way shape or form. Even if he is never retractable that only becomes a problem if it hurts him during sex or masterbation. It will not cause issues with bladder or his fertility or whatever.

There are more than a few men who go their whole lives being non retractable with zero problems.

Links to the UTI and foreskin myth:
UTI myth: http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/
http://www.nocirc.org/statements/breastfeeding.php

Quote:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In fact, UTI's are so rare in any case that, using Wiswell's data, 50 to 100 healthy boys would have to be circumcised in order to prevent a UTI from developing in only one patient. (Using more recent data from a better-controlled study, the number of unnecessary operations needed to prevent one hospital admission for UTI would jump to 195.

FORESKINS: Seek Elsewhere for Infants' Urinary Tract Infections
http://www.cirp.org/news/1997.12.22_PhysiciansWeekly/

UTI Neonatal circumcision revisited
http://www.cps.ca/english/statements...ION%20OF%20UTI

The incidence of Geniturinary abnormalities in circumcised and uncircumcised presenting with an initial urinary tract infection by 6 months of age
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/mueller/

Your ds should be treated exactly the same as if he where a girl with repeat UTI and as we both know nothing is cut off a girl as a treatment.

ETA: fixed the links


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## Dev (Oct 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
Yeah, I asked the urologist if hormones cause the foreskin to become stretchy, because we used betamethasone cream for a while, and it worked, temporarily. She said yes. I asked her if she thought my son has an endocrine disorder. She wouldn't give me a straight answer. She said he is still young. I asked if we could just wait for his natural hormones to kick in when he's older to cause retraction. She said it might happen when he's older, but he has a tendency to have phimosis, and it might be lifelong. He might never be retractable.

OMG I can't believe a urologist / specialist would actually believe this. Stay strong mama and don't let anybody try to convince you to circumcise your young son for phimosis and / or a belief it's a contributing factor to his UTI's ! Your incompetent doctor fails to educate herself on the normal development of the male prepuce and age 10 being the average age of full retraction. A lot of boys don't retract until puberty sets in. Creams to help retract should only be prescribed for males in their late teens or early twenties. In the event your son has a true diagnosis of phimosis that can't be treated with stretching and creams, then as a young adult he can have a non-invasive surgical procedure called a prepuplasty that enables his foreskin to retract without amputating his prepuce. Circumcision is unnecessary!

Doctors in the Circ. Happy USA frequently recommend circumcision for minor problems that can be treated with less invasive and more effective treatments. Use your common sense, I wish more doctors did. Would you allow the specialist to amputate tissue adjacent to and covering your young daughter's urethral opening to treat her recurrent UTI's or to cut away the tissue covering her clitoris because she (or her parents) were unable to retract her prepuce and expose her clitoris? Sounds silly doesn't it? Search and choose the doctors treating your son carefully and wisely. Best Regards.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

You need to contact a lawyer to make sure you dh cannot do that. We have one that posts here a lot actually along with Dr's who deal with intact penii and can help you out here and they take phone calls.

Quote:

The attorney for Doctors Opposing Circumcision, John Geisheker

Email him at [email protected]
Marilyn Milos an RN and founder of nocirc also takes calls and she can be very helpful.

You desperatly need a urologist who is foreskin knowledgeable.

To find a Dr hopefully near you go here http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...t/contact.html and contact nocirc


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## pdx.mothernurture (May 27, 2004)

I haven't read all the responses, but I highly encourage you to look into D-Mannose as a supplementation ASAP. A naturopath recommended it to me when I had a UTI and wanted to treat it naturally. I combined that with cranberry juice (Does your DS like it?) and beat my UTI naturally. As I understand it, D-mannose helps flush/shed ecoli in particular from the urinary tract; it's a form of sugar and has no side effects that I'm aware of. Also I would recommend supplementing his diet with a high quality pro-biotic if you're not already.

Google D-Mannose + UTI for good info!

I don't know of any reason why you couldn't combine D-mannose, cranberry juice (or triple strength capsules), and a probiotic prophylactically as well.


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## kiara7 (Feb 14, 2008)

I'm sorry your ds is going through this. The doctors seem uninformed at best. If I were you, I would contact Doctors Opposing Circumcision, get a consult and names of good doctors in your area.


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## workjw (Apr 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
The cream should never be used on a child only a boy in puberty or an adult male. For one thing the hormones for another it will tighten back down after treatment because there are no hormones to keep it that way.

My dd had the VCUG at 1 after a single UTI. If I had it to do over I wouldnt have had it after one. The VCUG is uncomfortable if you have ever had a cath. you know what I am talking about. The insert the cath. then put dye in and monitor the dye with a x ray like thing. DD wasnt in a lot of pain and your ds is old enough to understand what is happening if you explain it. You are allowed to be with him talking to him and watching. Which you need to do anyway to make sure they dont retract him.

I understand him needing an exam to see what is wrong but there is nothing to see by looking at his foreskin since it has nothing to do with UTI tight,retractable or what ever they are just not related in any way shape or form. Even if he is never retractable that only becomes a problem if it hurts him during sex or masterbation. It will not cause issues with bladder or his fertility or whatever.

There are more than a few men who go their whole lives being non retractable with zero problems.

Links to the UTI and foreskin myth:
UTI myth http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/
http://www.nocirc.org/statements/breastfeeding.php

FORESKINS: Seek Elsewhere for Infants' Urinary Tract Infections
http://www.cirp.org/news/1997.12.22_PhysiciansWeekly/

UTI Neonatal circumcision revisited
http://www.cps.ca/english/statements...ION%20OF%20UTI

The incidence of Geniturinary abnormalities in circumcised and uncircumcised presenting with an initial urinary tract infection by 6 months of age
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/mueller/

Your ds should be treated exactly the same as if he where a girl with repeat UTI and as we both know nothing is cut off a girl as a treatment.


I couldn't get the second or fourth link to open, but would be interested in reading them...


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Fixed I hope. OK tried again sorry about that.


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## workjw (Apr 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
Fixed I hope.

I still can't see them, but maybe it's just me. We're on satellite, and it's finicky. Does anyone else see them?


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## DocsNemesis (Dec 10, 2005)

I know this is gross and probably not something you want to think about...but is it possible he is somehow getting poop on his hand or playing with his...erm...area back there, not washing his hands with soap, and then playing with his penis? Actually even eating food with some E Coli present and then not washing his hands could lead to it-it might be a small enough amount that stomach acid kills it off so he doesnt get sick, but still enough that messing with himself infects him in his urinary tract.

It doesnt really make sense to me that he would have E Coli present due to phimosis. Is it just me? Is his foreskin really tight? Does it hurt? I'm just kind of doubting phimosis-and even if it were that, I'd go to creams and such before circ.

I'm sorry you're going through this!


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

I never see him playing with himself at all. I don't think he does.


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

I've already said how I would proceed but I am not sure whether you said or not have you give Marilyn a call or had a 'foreskin' friendly urologist provide an opinion?


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

The group we are seeing is the only such around here to take our insurance. And they are not even that close. So seeing another doctor would be hard.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Could he have kidney reflux? Circumcision isn't going to help with a kidney problem. It wouldn't for a male or a female.

I just went back and read where you said he had his kidneys looked at.

My naturapath gave us a supplement called Uristatin. It contains an ingredient that kills the urinary tract infection bacteria because they eat it and can't digest it, so they die. It's Uristatin by Thorne Research. That in conjunction with concentrated cranberry supplements helped my daughters recurrent uti's.

I know you've heard it a lot, but you absolutely cannot diagnose phimosis in a 5year old. They may be saying it's phimosis, but they're saying it because they don't understand foreskins. If you're in an area where circ. is still the norm, this can be especially true. You're going to have to get a lot of information in order to keep him from being circ'd. These dr's may end up causing more harm than anything. Can you arrange a visit with a naturapathic dr?

Also, if you use soap in the bath, don't...use a gentle shampoo and no soap or bubblebath.


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## ticklemegreen (Apr 20, 2009)

I have had a lot of problems with UTI's myself and have done a lot of research to try to figure out how to stop them! When I asked my gynecologist her only recommendation was to make sure I was wiping properly!!! (uh, thanks)

Things I've found:

probiotics (someone said that they heard yogurt is good for preventing uti's, it is because of the probiotics) You could get some keffir smoothie and make him a smoothie every morning for breakfast. You can also add leafy green veggies to it to help get more fiber)

He could take a dailiy cranberry supplement

He could take a daily fiber supplement as well (you could also try pureeing fiber-rich food and mixing it into foods he likes)

Too much sugar can cause you to be more prone to uti

Does he take baths? Maybe you should switch him to showers and use an all natural/gentle soap (including shampoo)

If he does get a UTI or feels like he is getting one (I know I can usually tell) Increase the cranberry supplement and water in-take, cut out as much sugar as possible, and cut dairy as well (although probotics are good for preventing them, if he has a UTI dairy can make it worse)

I did not read the whole thread, sorry if I repeated other suggestions! Good luck!


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## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

A few years ago I had constant UTIs due to E.coli. After numerous antibiotics and changing to a low oxalate diet it all cleared up and haven't had much since.


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## ursaminor (Mar 28, 2009)

I really dont have much info to offer, but here is a thought-

Perhaps you could find out what a treatment plan used in Europe or other non-circ countries would be. England perhaps? I wonder if there is a medical contact over seas that could provide advice? - it might be worth checking into, at least to convince the docs you are working with that circ is not the answer.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

I'd do the VCUG. My DS (now 6 wks) had it done a couple weeks ago after having a severe UTI/kidney infection. DH took him back and said that it wasn't that bad, considering - and by the time they brought him back out to me, he was fine. And thankfully he didn't have reflux. But it was something that I would have really wanted to know about if he did.


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

Also consider posting in Nutrition and Good Eating and/or Health and Healing for more advice.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
He's also had bacteria-free urine tests that contained blood. The very first time he had visible blood in his urine, I took him right to urgent care, and his urine test there was perfectly normal, so the doctor just looked at me like I was stupid, and the nurse swore up and down that it must have been red food coloring. A few days later I had a very, very sick little boy, went back to the doctor, and he did indeed have a UTI.

This makes me wonder if the blood you saw in his urine was actually brick dust (uric acid crystals, they can look just like blood) from being dehydrated and the UTI he had a few days later was *caused* by the dehydration and/or bacteria that got introduced during the examination.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
Yeah, I asked the urologist if hormones cause the foreskin to become stretchy, because we used betamethasone cream for a while, and it worked, temporarily. She said yes. I asked her if she thought my son has an endocrine disorder. She wouldn't give me a straight answer. She said he is still young. I asked if we could just wait for his natural hormones to kick in when he's older to cause retraction. She said it might happen when he's older, but he has a tendency to have phimosis, and it might be lifelong. He might never be retractable.

When did the phimosis treatments start? Did you do the steroid cream before the UTIs started? Did the pediatrician test his retractability before the UTIs started?

If yes, then the checking and/or creams may be the _cause_ of the UTIs.


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## BlessedMommy2006 (Dec 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
If yes, then the checking and/or creams may be the _cause_ of the UTIs.











It's completely preposterous to diagnose a 5 y/o with phimosis or prescribe any treatment for such.

Such treatments could definitely encourage infection.


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## melanie_rabbitbarn (Mar 28, 2007)

To answer your question about VCUG's and anesthesia; my memory as a secretary in the radiology department that did these exams is that the person had to be awake in order to urinate (void) while the doctor took live x-ray pictures (fluoroscopy). The exam is called a *Voiding* Cysto-UrethraGram (not sure I have the spelling right). It's not a fun exam, but as so many other Mom's have said, it is better than the alternative of permanent kidney damage.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
He is seeing a pediatric urologist (group) at a children's hospital. We haven't tested for kidney reflux, and I'm rather resistant to put him through that procedure. I told them I won't do it unless DS was completely anesthetized. They said it doesn't work that way, so we are deadlocked.

I just want to give some support - my ds is also having UTIs, or pain like one is coming on, then it goes away. He had the reflux test done last Thursday and I was so scared for it - but knew it had to be done. To be honest, it was not nearly as bad as I had imagined it would be. They did it at a local children's hospital and they knew just what they were doing and the procedure was very quick. They were able to look at it immediately and tell me if reflux was an issue or not.

I know it's hard to think about - but to be totally honest it was a lot less painful than a UTI.


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## lunamegn (Nov 30, 2004)

My son also had a VCUG. It was clearly uncomfortable for him but very briefly. Hard for me to see him go through that though.


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *melanie_rabbitbarn* 
To answer your question about VCUG's and anesthesia; my memory as a secretary in the radiology department that did these exams is that the person *had to be awake in order to urinate (void)* while the doctor took live x-ray pictures (fluoroscopy). The exam is called a *Voiding* Cysto-UrethraGram (not sure I have the spelling right). It's not a fun exam, but as so many other Mom's have said, it is better than the alternative of permanent kidney damage.

Wow, that makes sense to me. Can't believe I didn't consider that.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
When did the phimosis treatments start?

After the third UTI.

Quote:

Did you do the steroid cream before the UTIs started?
No.

Quote:

Did the pediatrician test his retractability before the UTIs started?
No.

Quote:

If yes, then the checking and/or creams may be the _cause_ of the UTIs.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I just wanted to send







and that I am sorry you are having to deal with this. For me knowing something is wrong and not knowing how to fix it for my kids is the very worst feeling on earth.

I hope that you find the thing that will put a stop to these UTI's and keep your ds safe from surgery that wont help.


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## Naturalyst (Feb 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KatWrangler* 
They should of tested the bacteria for resistance to the abx. Then they should of re-tested after the course of abx to make it was gone.

OP did they do this?

I could not possibly count the number of UTI's I had as a child and a teen! And, I was ahead of my time in terms of employing both medical and holisitic approaches - drank tons of water, ate fiber, cotton underwear, cranberry juice ... all of it!

Then, I got a very nasty tooth infection that would not go away. I was on antibiotics (three in all) for almost two months. Voila ... never got another UTI!!!

Looking back, it was clear to everyone that I actually had a chronic kidney infection that only showed when it slipped down to my bladder. And, the usual round of antibiotics (even if they were the right ones) were never taken long enough. (The course of treatment for a kidney infection is much longer than that for UTIs.)

The lesson learned is to get a culture and sensitivity test when treating an infection and test again to make sure it is clearned.

You won't "see" a kidney infection on an ultrasound, unless it has left scar tissue. And, you can't assume it's only a bladder infection just because you have bladder symptoms.

Why not try some dried fruits to relieve your son's constipation. A couple of dried apricots or prunes each day might be enough. And, instead of plain water, you might consider spritzers of cranberry juice and seltzer (carbonated water). It's more 'fun' to drink and would get some cranberry juice into his system too. Also, know that cranberry extract is available in capsules ... can he swallow a capsule?

Whatever you decide to do, I hope your son feels better soon.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Thank you, Naturalyst. That is some information that might get us somewhere.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

oh, mama. i couldn't read and not send you (and your little guy) some love. big hugs. im so sorry you're both going thru this ordeal. i hope he is better soon, and you both have relief.
xoxo


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
Thank you, Naturalyst. That is some information that might get us somewhere.

Are they doing cultures to find the UTIs or just urine samples?


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

cultures


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
cultures

Are they cathing him to get the samples?


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

No, he's never been cath'ed.


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## Rico'sAlice (Mar 19, 2006)

Could you maybe ask the Drs to think about what they would be suggesting if he were female? Explore all of the options that do not involve the exterior of the penis. (Which is what others are doing in _this_ thread







but maybe the Drs would have some other ideas if they could stop even considering the foreskin.)


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## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

((Hugs)) QOTP... keep us updated...Just couldn't pass by without offering some support.
Keep challenging the doctors.
Jessica


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
No, he's never been cath'ed.

If hes not bing athed and only getting bac on cultures, i would really rethink weather he is having UTIs to begin with, Cultures are really sensitive and the only way they can really tell if there is an issue is with a cath.....because bacteria from the anus or from the genitalia can cause positive bactera to grow on the cultures. Is he getting possessive urine samples for utis?


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

We just had another culture run a couple days ago, and it was clear. But DS has been saying that it hurts to pee. He has frequently had rashes on his upper thighs and scrotum because somehow he is getting a little bit of urine on his underwear (almost all the time). He doesn't tell us and is often wearing this slightly damp underwear. I don't know if he lacks bladder control or waits too long to start moving towards the bathroom, or if it's from the last dribble of urine he doesn't want to wait for. It really does not look like yeast, as I've seen plenty of yeasty diaper rashes. We are using hydrocortisone on it, and it helps. Maybe he has this rash inside his foreskin?


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## tinyblackdot (Aug 31, 2007)

Could it be something he is eating/drinking that is maybe too acidic?

I really would have a hard time accepting that he is getting that many UTIs if they are just done with un cathed cultures. That just isnt reliable.

My dd has a hard time with rashes and burning urine after she has drank OJ or eaten alot of tomatoes. It makes her urine highly acidic and then it will burn her skin too and leave a rash.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinyblackdot* 
Could it be something he is eating/drinking that is maybe too acidic?

I really would have a hard time accepting that he is getting that many UTIs if they are just done with un cathed cultures. That just isnt reliable.

My dd has a hard time with rashes and burning urine after she has drank OJ or eaten alot of tomatoes. It makes her urine highly acidic and then it will burn her skin too and leave a rash.

Well the first three times, he most definitely was sick with a UTI. Fever, lethargy, not eating, and very painful urination. Since then he's complained on and off of mildly painful urination, but has had clear urine cultures. I have considered that it is related to his diet. He won't eat tomatoes, and I hate OJ myself, so I don't buy it. But I figure if I can get him drinking more water, that might solve the issue. And I've talked to him about keeping his underwear dry too.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Mildly painful urination could be seperation related if the pain was not in his abdomen but more in the penis area.


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## tutucrazy (Dec 30, 2008)

Phimosis can NOT be diagnosed on anyone who has not completed puberty. This is a phony diagnosis on children that happens all too often in our foreskin ignorant society. The foreskin is fused to the glans to protect the urethral opening from bacteria.

For UTI I have a solution for you that will kill the bacteria. Citricidal Grapefruit Extract. It must be the Citricidal professional brand. Buy it and drop it in some cranberry juice or other juice. It is bitter but it works wonders at knocking out harmful bacteria and yeast. I will do a little looking to see how much you should give and how often.

Foreskin has nothing to do with recurrent UTI. Circ will solve nothing.

Chances are that it is in your genetics. Be sure that your son is not playing with his penis a lot after wiping. Make sure he knows wipe front to back and wash his hands well. Sometimes it happens that a boy is exploring himself a lot actually introduce the bacteria from their bums to their penis.


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

How's your boy Queen?


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## mummy2jess (Nov 7, 2006)

Hi
I didnt have time to read all the replies so sorry if this has already been said!
my daughter has the EXACT same thing as your son - repeated urine infections which show the e coli bacteria.
so thats the Circumcision arguement out the window - i just cant see how foreskin can cause ecoli but there you go.

My doctor told me that ecoli can live in the intestines, or anywehere for many many many months and so what may seem like repeated infections is actually just a number of flare ups of the same infection.

I dont know what treatments your son ahs receive etc but my daughter has been reffered to the hospital consultant, she has had a number of urine checks, antibiotics and is having her kidneys scanned this coming friday to rule out any problems but also to check for damage since e coli CAN damage kidneys.

forgot to add we were told a number of things to prevent reinfection including: NO baths just showers as bacteria from their little bottoms gets into the water then swishes around and can end up back on their way to the bladder.

probiotics drinks

loads and loads of water to drink

no harsh cleaning of genitals just a quick siwsh in the shower no rubbing and def no soap

there was more I cant think of now! - but my daughter has been symptom free for a couple of months now









sophie


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## fruitful womb (Nov 20, 2004)

just a thought,

interstitial cystitis?


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Hi, what a difficult time you've been having! I hope your boy is doing better now.

I'm in the UK where no-one would think to circ for something like this. I know one adult male who was recently circ'd after he developed persistent phimosis (after 7 months of agony and unsuccessful treatments). Sadly he hates his new state but says it is somewhat better than the pain he was in...anyway, he is nearly 40, not 5!

I was wondering if you sorted out the constipation? The wet undies made me think of a not-properly empty bladder, with the last few drops sort of leaking down, his "resting" his penis on the waistband could also cause a few drops to be held back. Does he "shake" after he pees? Getting him to use his fly or pull his trousers and pants right down out of the way while he pees and give a good shake then dry (the few drops hanging on the end of the foreskin) gently with tp might help him leak less - a few drops coming after the main even is very common because the muscles which open or close to release or hold back the pee are at the base of the penis (as i'm sure you know) so you can end up with the penis having some still hanging around in there. But if he's constipated it's possible his bladder isn't emptying well at all.

This hasn't been mentioned here yet, and possibly there's some reason which i am unaware of, but my DD got very constipated and had some UTI-type soreness when she was 2. She got into a cycle of it hurting to poop, so she would hold it back for 3 or 4 days until she couldn't stop it anymore and then cry for 60-90mins before eventually having a poo which was always rock hard and several times she got anal fissures. My poor baby!







Anyway i went with syrup-of-figs with senna. I gave her half the recommended dose for a kid her age every day for a week, then every other day for a week, then every third day for a week. She has been fine ever since. I know with senna some people fear the bowel will come to rely on it, but that really wasn't my experience, once we had remedied the initial problem and made going to poop comfortable long enough that she no longer feared it she was fine. I've used it twice since, both times when she's had a few days of not drinking enough then a fissure from a hard poop, so she can have a looser day while it heals a little. Anyway, just a thought. I hope your little guy is doing much better soon!


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

My son had one UTI that took us months to clear up. Finally, another poster on here recommended Keflex (I think that was the name of the antibiotic).

I took him to a pediatric urologist who suggested circ but said if he circ'd him and it didn't fix the UTI then we can't put the foreskin back on. For us, circ'ing wasn't an option.

We had an ultrasound done that came back clear. He said at my son's age (five) that if there were problems it would probably have shown up on the ultrasound but not always. He suggested a VCUG. I asked for a course of the antibiotics suggested on here first and he agreed that we could try it. He said the e. coli could have colonized under the foreskin and the antibiotic suggested could clear it up if that were the case (the way he described it didn't make sense but...). So, we did the antibiotic for four weeks and it cleared it up completely.

I also found out that my son, who was learning to wipe his own bottom, was taking the tissue and dabbing the tip of his penis after he'd wiped. So, in effect doing what happens to girls when we wipe from back to front. We explained that transfers the germs and if he needed to dab his penis to do it first and then wipe.

If you feel your son needs a VCUG look into the possible risks associated with GA. I don't think I would ever put my child under GA unless absolutely necessary - too many risks for my liking. I didn't want a VCUG but if the antibiotics hadn't cleared it we would have had one done. I've read up on the risks of undiagnosed kidney problems in kids and the lifelong problems it can cause. If we had needed a VCUG I would have gone with the local children's hospital.

Every now and then my son will complain that he thinks he's getting another UTI. It always seems to happen when he is dehydrated. Same thing happens to my DH. If he doesn't have enough water during the day it will hurt when he pees at night. So, we increase DS's water intake and so far, fingers crossed, we haven't had another one.

How is your son feeling? If he is still having problems I'd do as other have suggested and ask the doc what treatment they would pose if he was already circ'd and to quit focusing on his foreskin. Tell them it isn't an option to circ and to help you find a cure.

Best wishes.


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## Toolip (Mar 7, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Cheshire* 

I took him to a pediatric urologist who suggested circ but said *if he circ'd him and it didn't fix the UTI then we can't put the foreskin back on*. For us, circ'ing wasn't an option.


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## serendipity22 (Sep 19, 2006)

Quote:

But do you think the 'anatomical' problem might be that he is squishing the underside of his penis with his waistband while he urinates?
It might be worth teaching him not to do this.

My daughter had some UTIs. Constipation and holding on instead of peeing when needed were big contributing factors.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

He seems OK. We're pushing water and vegetables. But several days ago he had a big spot of blood in his underwear. It was in the front, clearly from his penis. I asked him if he was playing with himself and maybe hurt himself, but he said no. Shocking, but he's been fine since.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

The blood is probably from seperation but I have to ask are you the only care giver he has? You mentioned an ex in the OP? I hate to even go there but I couldnt help but think abuse of some sort.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

I don't think he's abused. He's pretty confident and outspoken. He is cared for by ex, ex's girlfriend, ex's parents, daycare, and Kinder.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QueenOfThePride* 
I don't think he's abused. He's pretty confident and outspoken. He is cared for by ex, ex's girlfriend, ex's parents, daycare, and Kinder.

Do any of them ever bath him? Even if nobody would intentionally hurt him, someone might be retracting him and cleaning him.


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
Do any of them ever bath him? Even if nobody would intentionally hurt him, someone might be retracting him and cleaning him.

I don't think so, but I'll ask ex about it. I think he could have hurt himself, either 'playing' or maybe playing outside, falling off his bike or something like that. He's pretty rough and tumble.


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## Sky (Dec 17, 2003)

A pp mentioned kidney reflux.... has he been tested for this? I would definitly go to a pediatric urologist asap, this could be the issue.







hope all gets solved for you little guy soon.


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## chann96 (May 13, 2004)

You mention he has a bowel movement once a day, but I'm wondering about the consistency of it. (TMI I know, but it's important) Is it soft and easy for him to go or is it like stones? Stone-like, or hard at all, is indicative of constipation.

Constipation can contribute to UTIs, but even with constipation that number of UTIs is a huge red flag for a child who needs further urologic testing. My daughter has had testing including VCUGs several times and never had any sedation for any of it.

Constipation issues along with urologic issues can also be indicative of something neurologic going on. Your comments recently about leakage could also indicate that or it could be leakage caused by pressure on his bladder from backed-up stool.

You need to get him further testing. Soon. I can't sugar coat that in any form. Others on this thread have said it, but if he does have reflux it can lead to serious health risks. Far beyond any concerns over circumcision (which you definitely shouldn't allow at all and it's an absurd suggestion) is the concern for kidney damage.

Here's a link for a study on sedation during VCUG. You can discuss it with the ped uro. Many ped uros don't like to do sedation for VCUGs because of the concern that it will affect the results of the test. Also, since the test is relatively quick there are concerns about the risks of the sedation itself since it is not absolutely needed. You ped uro most likely will never agree to full anesthesia, but maybe you two can agree on some sort of light sedation.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

The risk of death with GA no matter how small is not worth it IMO for a simple test that takes less than 5min. I would do anything to keep my kids pain free and from being traumatized, but doing GA when it isnt a life and death situation isnt happening. But that is just my way of doing things.


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