# "Don't have any more kids, please!"



## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

Moms of many - what do you say when someone says this to you? I have 4 kids, and they are all wonderful and we enjoy them, and yes, life is busy, but not hard. We love it! Yet sometimes neighbors/acquaintances say this to me, and it shocks me every time. I think sometimes they say it b/c my kids are young, and these people "know" it will be so much harder when they are older, but I don't know if that is for sure true (I suspect it depends on the family.) If I have more kids is not their business, and it shocks me that they would beg me to not have more. WTH?

I need a good comeback, and then maybe a non-provocative reply, too.


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## mamabearsoblessed (Jan 8, 2003)

Wow. I've never had anyone say this to me. OMG. That is a horribly rude thing to say to someone. If someone said this to me, whether neighbor/ aquant/relative or 'friend', I would reply

*"That is a hurtful and mean thing to say, whether you meant it to be or not. My children are amazing and the world is blessed to have them, as am I. I am grateful for every moment I am given."* I've used this reply in different forms for alot of comments... I have a little 'stash' of comebacks at the ready. Rarely am I at a loss, thanks to my mama-years and experiences LOL.

I've gotten to the point in my life where I really don't concern myself with how others 'take' the things I say~ especially if it is obvious they do not concern themselves with my feelings.

I'm sorry, Mama, that people have said this to you. ((( hugs))).

It never ceases to amaze me what people think is acceptable conversation...


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## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

I'm only a mom of 3, and that must be the acceptable limit because no one has ever said that to me! But wow, I can't believe people say that at all! What an insensitive, and frankly odd, thing to say!

I obviously don't have a tried and true response, but I'd love to be a fly on the wall if you just looked genuinely concerned -- as if there might be some germane information they have to impart -- and asked them "Oh! Why not?"









I suppose that's kind of passive aggressive, but it might help people see how it's just a knee-jerk reaction on their part. If they do give you a reason ("You'll wear yourself out!"), you could then address that specific issue. ("Well, we're tired, but we're happy. We've always wanted a large family.")

Just some ideas from someone who would also be shocked to be confronted that way. Can't wait to hear what some BTDT moms have to say...


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## Dr.Worm (Nov 20, 2001)

I only have two kids but I love what Martha Sears would say when people would criticize her "The world needs my kids."


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## ancoda (Oct 17, 2005)

I only have 3 so far so I do not get these type of comments much, but I do have a friend who is pregnant with her 7th, and her oldest is 10. So I asked her if she gets these comments, and she said she responds with something like "Do you think that I am such a bad mother that we should not welcome every child who is waiting to come to our family?" She says she has not had anyone willing to continue to insult her by saying that they do find her a bad parent, and that closes the conversation.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I would probably stare at them in shocked disbelief at their rudeness and hope they get the point. Or I might say something snarky like "Why? It's not like we're asking you to help care for them."

I recently had my first really negative experience. I went into heart failure after delivering the second baby, and spent the first two-and-a-half months of their lives up in bed. So picture this-- it's winter, we're stir crazy, and we need OUT. DH drops us all off in front of Borders so he can park the car. I'm holding a baby, my daughter is holding a baby, my oldest is holding the second youngest's hand, and my third is holding the diaper bag. No one is screaming or yelling; everyone is being cooperative. This woman I do not know starts interrogating me:

Are they all yours? All of them? Wait, you have a baby? Two? TWINS?!?!? Oh my God. Better you than me.

I was so tired and exhausted and angry, I didn't say anything.







But when we got away, I did tell my children how wonderful they are.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

I get this a lot along with such rich variations on it as"do your kids have the same father?" and "I bet you've learned your lesson now" and "are you sure you know what you're doing."

It is mainly because I look so young.

I'm pretty fed up with people and their nosiness so I usually say flat out, "that's not really your business, is it?" Once, to an older lady who kept going on and on about how I should have stopped at one and didn't I know about birth control blah blah blah I just blurted out, "which one of my kids is the one who shouldn't be alive then?"

And I only have two.

Oh and another one, the lady thought I was 16, and said some pretty rude, age-biased things to me, and I listened politely and then said, "Well, I don't believe that about teenage mothers. I try to support them. I'm 23 and I've been revolving my life around my children since the day I got pregnant, so I know it can be done, I just try to encourage teen moms to rearrange their priorities too" etc etc. When I was done she looked really shocked and said, "oh! I just assumed you were a teen mom." And then I smiled and said, "well, you know what they say about assuming...." LOL


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I said it to a family once.

But, in all fairness, they were terrible parents. It was as if they just got "knocked up" because they were too drunk to think ahead. Their kids were destroying our property, and they were not delightful kids. Sure, the parents "enjoyed" them.. but, nobody else did. There are some people who should never become parents..much less over and over again.

I would never dream of saying it to the involved loving good parents though. I have a girlfriend with eight kids. She had six, and her husband was killed, then when she remarried, they had two more kids... I couldn't understand why she'd want to... (her first six kids were grown) but, she was a wonderful mother.. all of her kids were delightful, she parented eight kids better than I parented one... AND her body looked fantastic even after 8 kids. I hate her a little.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


> Oh my God. Better you than me.


That's exactly right, lady. Better Annette than you.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journeymom*
> 
> That's exactly right, lady. Better Annette than you.










I have said that on occasion.


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## CallMeMommy (Jun 15, 2005)

I have 3 and my MIL has told us more than once "No more!" Makes me want to get pregnant again just to spite her. She also reamed DH up one side and down the other when we told her about #3. She thought it was an accident and berated him for not using protection. Except it was planned, and protection kinda makes that difficult.

I just told her "Well, we're not planning anymore, but nothing permanent has been done yet." That's actually my standard reply when people ask if we're having more. And it's true.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

I think people have a sort of unwitting "savior" complex when they say stuff like that. Whether it's saving the enviroment, or "saving" you from yourself, assuming you're too dumb to realize that more than 2 or 3 is an impossible, ridiculous, insane number of children to raise.

I *cannot wait* to be pregnant again (making it our 4th) because I have now had years of preparation for the comments and I am *so* ready for some goober to say something to me.


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## mamabearsoblessed (Jan 8, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


My sister has twins~ now 22!!! And when people said that she'd always reply. "YES! Best ME, not you! I'm the lucky one!"

People can be so horrible.

It seemed my pregnancy with #4 was the golden ticket for the 'you're pregnant AGAIN? ' comments. Odd, because we went through IF with all 3 of our others and had losses as well... even people who knew our history said crap. This Babe was the most amazing surprise of my life and every moment I thank God for his arrival and still can't believe he's here.

I have found that lots of rude commennts come from people who do not genuinely enjoy their children *shrug*, or their lives for that matter.

I HATE the "Are you done NOW?" Question. WTF!


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

I'm normally a very polite person, but if someone said that to me, I think I would tell them to watch their mouth. Seriously, it is unbelievably rude to comment on someone's fertility. I would have no problem offending someone who said that, because, frankly I wouldn't want them in my life anyway.


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## Katielady (Nov 3, 2006)

I can't believe people say such rude things!

In case this restores anyone's faith in humanity, I was out with my two one day and an older man said, "You have such beautiful kids. You should have lots more, don't quit!" Also a bit personal, but at least he was being positive.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

I don't know why perfect strangers feel the need to make these sorts of comments. If you only have 1 kid, people are always asking when you're going to have more (because one can't possibly be enough). But 4 is "too many"? What's the perfect number for drawing no comments...2?


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> I don't know why perfect strangers feel the need to make these sorts of comments. If you only have 1 kid, people are always asking when you're going to have more (because one can't possibly be enough). But 4 is "too many"? What's the perfect number for drawing no comments...2?


Yes, and they need to be a boy and a girl and exactly 2.5 years apart.


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## Katielady (Nov 3, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scottishmommy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


That's exactly what I have! Lol. I guess if/when I have more, I'll be chided for ruining my perfect family.


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## mauri456 (Mar 4, 2008)

i get this all of the time now too cus i have a three year old and my twins.... they love saying "you have your hands full" but in a way that sounds almost demeaning. we do actually plan on having a 4th and i love telling people "yup and we're gonna have one more" lol!!! that really gets a look.

the twins have made me realize just how rude people are though. some people seem kind and genuine but alot of people ask really inappropriate questions like if we used fertility meds, etc. i am always astounded that a stranger would think its okay to ask someone that... ive started to just answer whatever comes to my mind for my own humor...


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## Earthy Mama (Jun 4, 2004)

When I was pregnant with my third, an old "friend" of mine from HS said to another friend (via FB no less), "Can you believe Angie is having ANOTHER kid?" My REAL friend said "yes, and I think it's awesome!" my "friend" said "but this makes THREE!!"

I can't wait to tell him when we're trying for #4!


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I just say back "oh, I am planning 6 more" and they usually might say something, but I just nod that I do plan on it.


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## rachieface (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm sorry, because that is unbelievably rude. I think I too would be in the "oh my, why ever not??" camp. Ugh.

My parents had eight children (I am the oldest), and people would often come up to ME and ask "oooh, do you like having so many siblings? so is this the last one? are your parents going to have more kids???" Um, I DON'T KNOW, probably because I don't have an intimate knowledge of my parents' love life.......


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I hate that. I also have four kids, and I really would like to have one or two more. I have no idea why in the heck people think it's appropriate to comment or say it's plenty, etc., what is it to them? I'm not asking anyone else to parent these kids. I can't imagine saying anything negative at all about the number of kids someone has, whether it's one or eight. So rude! I sometimes wonder if people are jealous, in a weird way. Even if they themselves could never imagine more than two kids, maybe somewhere inside they wish they had the patience, finances, desire to have a bigger family. I dunno.

I guess my comeback to strangers is saying we have 4 more at home; or for people who know us that we hope to have a dozen.


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

I told my dad, and he said it is likely because we do such a good job with the kids, and make it look easy, that it is actually an issue of the person making the comment feeling intimidated and less than subconsciously. I think he may have a point, and it was cool to have him pay me such a nice compliment! But I agree, I should have just said, "Well, we don't even have enough for a basketball team, so we'll have to keep going!"


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## shanniesue2 (Jul 4, 2007)

I think I would be tempted to reply "did you really just say that?"

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scottishmommy*
> 
> Yes, and they need to be a boy and a girl and exactly 2.5 years apart.


This explains why people are starting to bug me about having more! DS just turned 3 and I'm not pregnant, nor do I have any intention of becoming pregnant any time soon. My parents were bugging me about it a couple of weeks ago... they NEVER bugged us about getting pregnant even before I was preggers with DS... why do they have to start now? Bleh!


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## frugalmum (Nov 5, 2009)

Ok-- this may offend some people and I apologize if it does. We are hispanic and when someone says this (or more often, implies it) I point out that the hispanic birthrate is the highest of any other group in the US and that eventually we will outnumber everyone else







. This usually leaves them with their jaw hanging open and shuts them up.

Other times I just laugh and say that we love kids and that our kids are beautiful, which is the truth!!


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## Kuba'sMama (Oct 8, 2004)

I also find that people are ALWAYS asking me about having more/being done, etc. I thought it was just because I'm such an easy going and approachable-seeming person, but after reading this thread I guess not







.

So when I had 2 (boy and girl, 2.5 years apart) I guess everyone assumed I was done and nobody asked. But when I had my third it's like I'm building a baby army all of a sudden, lol. People I hardly know seem to think it's perfectly alright to ask "when is the fourth coming?", "are you done NOW?", "so how many more you gonna have" and my all-time favorite "when is your hubby going to get fixed?". Like, HELLO? My husband's fertility status should not be the topic of conversation, it weirds me out.

I think it's the human instinct of constantly comparing to others, maybe a bit of subversive competition... or people are just nosy and rude, i don't know.


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## jeanine123 (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Galatea*
> 
> But I agree, I should have just said, "Well, we don't even have enough for a basketball team, so we'll have to keep going!"


Nah, tell them you're going for a full football team and then have fun watching their heads explode.


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## Mommyofalmost6 (Sep 12, 2007)

it amazes me the way people dont have a filter between their brains and their mouths. Its sad really. I have 6 kids and have lost count on all the comments we get. Mostly the "they are all yours? you have 6 kids? your dont right?"


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## Dmitrizmom (Nov 11, 2002)

is it bad... but I had the question asked of me after dd2 was born... my response was, "I'm trying to outbreed the idiots." The questioner gaped and gasped. I figure one rude question deserves an equally rude response.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I love that one! I am going to use it next time. Ok..I am pregnant and announcing the pregnancy in a couple week so I am sure I will have plenty of chance to use it, LOL.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmitrizmom*
> 
> is it bad... but I had the question asked of me after dd2 was born... my response was, "I'm trying to outbreed the idiots." The questioner gaped and gasped. I figure one rude question deserves an equally rude response.


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## ~Demeter~ (Jul 22, 2006)

ooh Angie #4, I'm excited... can't say I'll be joining you this time though. LOL

I have 5. I started young but all of mine were wanted, not necessarily 'planned' but I was very conscious of my desire to have another. I;ve heard it all.. One of my favorites is when someone asks if I know how that happens, to which I reply I sure do! I'm apparently VERY good at it.  I've been told No More after the birth of my Marah but I'm not 100% sure we're done, either. We'll see where the future leads me. I don't use hormonal birth control (makes me very ill) and I'm 31... I've got a lot of years left in me. It's entirely possible there could be another.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I was told no more and unfortunately, another baby really would probably kill me. So when someone makes a snarky comment, I really just want to cry. I would love to have one more child.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Oh, do go ahead and cry. They have it coming.


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## delphine (Aug 12, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> I don't know why perfect strangers feel the need to make these sorts of comments. If you only have 1 kid, people are always asking when you're going to have more (because one can't possibly be enough). But 4 is "too many"? What's the perfect number for drawing no comments...2?


I have 2 boys. We were unable to have any more after the boys, though we desperately wanted more. I can't tell you how many times someone has said to me "Oh, you really need to have a little girl" or "When are you going to have more?"

It breaks my heart. Every. Single. Time.


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## CI Mama (Apr 8, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scottishmommy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...












People are just dang silly!


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katielady*
> 
> That's exactly what I have! Lol. I guess if/when I have more, I'll be chided for ruining my perfect family.


Yes, you will! How dare you interfere with others' plan for you!


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## Spring Lily (Sep 26, 2006)

I've only got 3, but when my twins were younger we got a lot of rude comments from strangers. I found that the best way to handle them was to cut them off at the pass. They usually say a few things first before letting loose with the really rude stuff! It would usually stop them from going farther if my first response was "We're very lucky" or "We are so happy to have our children" or something like that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
> 
> I was told no more and unfortunately, another baby really would probably kill me. So when someone makes a snarky comment, I really just want to cry. I would love to have one more child.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lolar2*
> 
> Oh, do go ahead and cry. They have it coming.


Yes! If their comments upset you, why not show it. Before our 1st was born, I had a miscarriage and a few months later someone started in on the whole "when are you going to have kids?" thing. Instead of holding it back, I just started crying! The person felt horrible, and I thought well, that is exactly why you have to be careful when you ask personal things.


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## Thursday Girl (Mar 26, 2004)

when I got pregnant with my first I had a friend tell me that I wasn't ready to be a mother and that I would be a bad mother. When I had # 2 (a 2nd daughter) I had people apolagize to us because we were having another girl. Also people asking if we knew how it happened, if we were done, and asking us not to have any more. When we got pregnant the third time peopel repeatedly told us they hoped it woul dbe a boy this time IN FRONT OF MY DAUGHTERS. When we found out it was a girl again peopel apolagized and said other mean spirited things to the point that my one daughter wanted to become a boy. They also again told us we should stop having kids.

People can be asses, I just ignore them mostly, but if they say things in front of the girls I respond so the girls know that they are wanted (and actually exactly what we wanted, both hubs and I wanted 3 girls) and to let the rude people know that they are being rude and hurtful.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justKate*
> 
> Yes, you will! How dare you interfere with others' plan for you!


I couldn't get the quote to include the one you quoted, but yeah. I had a girl and then 2 years later a boy. I swear people assumed #3 was an accident. How could I not be done when I had the "perfect" amount of children? What is ideal for some couples is not ideal for others. Obviously, I wasn't and wouldn't have been content with just those two (love my first two so much I guess I wanted more like them!). People are so rude, and weird. I know they then figured we weren't trying for #4 as well, except that we were... and if we end up with #5, it will be the same thing. DH and I know what causes babies, thankyouverymuch, and I always knew I'd likely have a big family. I don't get what it matters to anyone else.

Yes, we have our hands full, but because of that our hearts are over-flowing.


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## Marissamom (Dec 17, 2009)

I come from a family of 4 girls, and we got a lot of comments growing up like "wow, your dad is really outnumbered" and such. and I remember hearing someone telling my dad once (when my youngest sister was a baby) that they should try for one more because "the 5th was sure to be a boy". my parents planned 4 children and wanted all girls. and it never seemed like 4 was a big family to us. we knew lots of families with 4+ kids and my dad was one of 10 kids.

recently my pet-peeve has been people being so excited that we're about to have "one of each". DF wanted to have one of each, but I was really wanting two girls. it was frustrating to be upset and scared about having a boy and have people telling me that I should be over the moon because I was having the perfect family. no matter what, people just can't seem to mind their own business about family size and composition.


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## shanniesue2 (Jul 4, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marissamom*
> 
> recently my pet-peeve has been people being so excited that we're about to have "one of each". DF wanted to have one of each, but I was really wanting two girls. it was frustrating to be upset and scared about having a boy and have people telling me that I should be over the moon because I was having the perfect family. no matter what, people just can't seem to mind their own business about family size and composition.


I don't know that being excited for you b/c you're having one of each is necessarily a bad thing... I guess it depends on how they say it... like I guess if they're saying you'll have the perfect family b/c you're going to have one of each and not two of the same, that's pretty rude. But on the other hand, maybe they're just excited for you and trying to express that and doing it poorly...I'm only saying that b/c when my friend got pregnant with her second and found out she was going to have another boy, I told her "Oh! Two boys will be so much fun!" Not that a girl would have been less fun... I was just excited for her and trying to exress it.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journeymom*
> 
> That's exactly right, lady. Better Annette than you.


snort

LOL


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## Anglyn (Oct 25, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallMeMommy*
> 
> I have 3 and my MIL has told us more than once "No more!" Makes me want to get pregnant again just to spite her. She also reamed DH up one side and down the other when we told her about #3. She thought it was an accident and berated him for not using protection. Except it was planned, and protection kinda makes that difficult.
> 
> I just told her "Well, we're not planning anymore, but nothing permanent has been done yet." That's actually my standard reply when people ask if we're having more. And it's true.


This is my mom. She's been brow beating me since baby number two not to have more. "Don't you know you have to support all these kids?" Really? Cuz no else is doing it! WTH? With my fourth she was so relieved that i had "just" done a home test and "you dont really know, theres still a chance" with number five, I kid you not, she said to me, (in a tone implying how unreasonable I am) "so I don't suppose you've considered anything other than keeping it?" Seriously.


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## Nicole730 (Feb 27, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> I don't know why perfect strangers feel the need to make these sorts of comments. If you only have 1 kid, people are always asking when you're going to have more (because one can't possibly be enough). But 4 is "too many"? What's the perfect number for drawing no comments...2?


Yes. I have one of each. After my daughter was born, people would have this look of relief on their face and say "Oh good, one of each. Now you're set." (Now you're done, etc..). I always said, "Actually, we're planning on 4 children" and just gave them a look until they laughed uncomfortably.

ETA: I should have said, "No", two kids still draws comments. But then they definitely think they are saying the right thing.


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## Pepe (Jul 7, 2005)

Wow, I'm speechless! These comments are outrageous!

As the mama of an only, I was *just* the other day fielding questions and opinions about THAT and the conversation was getting to a point where I was about to have to share my entire reproductive and career history in order to stop it--so it's interesting to hear about the other side to this.

I can't believe people can be so rude.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CI Mama*
> 
> I don't know why perfect strangers feel the need to make these sorts of comments. If you only have 1 kid, people are always asking when you're going to have more (because one can't possibly be enough). But 4 is "too many"? What's the perfect number for drawing no comments...2?


Nah, I have 2, 3 years apart, boy and girl. Should be the "perfect" formula to ward off comments, right? Nope, I've had comments that I have too many or my hands too full or blah blah blah. People just like to be snotty is my thought.


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

Meh, not sure if it matters how many you have. I don't have kids yet (although I've wanted them for years). I've had people tell me that I need to "get busy" and that if I wait it'll be too late and then I'll regret waiting. Also that being an older parent won't be enjoyable, and a rundown of how exhausted I'll be and how my body won't "bounce back" if I wait to much longer, or actually asking my age then telling me how old I'll be when my kid is driving, etc. ETC! People just think things are their business that clearly aren't. I usually smile and nod then change the conversation.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

Yes, the one of each remarks generally means "and no more." People were upset when I got pregnant with my 2nd saying how unfair it was to steal attention away from my first born and how I am overpopulating the world. That was on my 2nd!!!! With just two children, I was told it was overwhelming to have them around. My older sister would refer to them as my brood. When I got pregnant with my 3rd, certain people suggested abortion! Forget the fact that I spent over 2 years in fertility treatments trying to have him. As far as they were concerned, everyone is entitled to 1 child, 2 is questionable, more than that should be illegal.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marissamom*
> 
> I come from a family of 4 girls, and we got a lot of comments growing up like "wow, your dad is really outnumbered" and such. and I remember hearing someone telling my dad once (when my youngest sister was a baby) that they should try for one more because "the 5th was sure to be a boy". my parents planned 4 children and wanted all girls. and it never seemed like 4 was a big family to us. we knew lots of families with 4+ kids and my dad was one of 10 kids.
> 
> recently my pet-peeve has been people being so excited that we're about to have "one of each". DF wanted to have one of each, but I was really wanting two girls. it was frustrating to be upset and scared about having a boy and have people telling me that I should be over the moon because I was having the perfect family. no matter what, people just can't seem to mind their own business about family size and composition.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

Oh, and when I was pregnant with my first, my mother informed me that I need to have the doctors do a hysterectomy as soon as he is out. She claimed it was the best thing that ever happened to her and she wishes she had done it much sooner.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

i want 2 more kids and would love to have them both be boys. i get told all the time that i already have too many and i should get my tubes tied. why cant i be the one to decide how many kids i should have? and i dont really care if they are boys or not even though i would like it. but i am sure that i will get the "so you are trying for a boy?" questions, even though it is bc i want another baby. period. i love having alot of kids. i love watching them with each other. i love being surrounded by all of them.

eta: i just got told this 2 min ago. my DH is at a friends house getting a tattoo of a tree and he is putting all the kids names in the branches. i asked him if he was leaving room for a couple more. he said that is why he thought the branches were a good idea. i didnt know we were on speaker phone..... his friends started going off. "you already have too many!" "no more kids" "dont you have enough" i dint know what to say. i just kept talking to my DH. DH didnt seem bothered, but he is always telling me he doesnt care what other people think and neither should i. i <3 that man!


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

That is really a very rude comment.
I only have two, but I get the 'your hands are full' type comments frequently. I try to see good intent behind it. Often i get 'they are so beautiful, G-d bless them'.

One thing ive learned, people feel entitled to comment when they see children. Its strange how as a parent, you are suddenly target to a whole lot of opinions. I certainly dont feel i have the privacy i used to.

I really like that comeback-'the world needs more kids like mine'


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## beenmum (Nov 29, 2010)

We have 4 kids and when I was pg with #5 (which I m/c at 11.5 weeks) I got alot of "They know what causes it, right?"

Which I replied "Yep. And I like it"

My other comeback is "Why shouldnt I?" and "I guess thats up tp God to decide"


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

When I was pregnant with my second, and planning my home birth, my mom said "you know, you can get your tubes tied at the same time." My mouth fell to the floor out of shock. So unbelievably rude. None of anyone's business. In this case also irrelevant. I can't see my midwife hoping in my birthing tub in the living room, saying "ok, your done, shall we cut you open and tie up your tubes now?"


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pepe*
> 
> Wow, I'm speechless! These comments are outrageous!
> 
> ...


Yes, that's what it is, too. The opposite side of the same coin. The 'I actually think it's OK to criticize to someone's face how many children they have' coin.


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## goinggreengirl (Nov 7, 2009)

My MIL said that she thought people should only have as many children as they have parents who are working. In other words, she said DH and I shouldn't have any more unless I go back to work! I guess you people who have all those kids need to find a few more parents to support them!


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## puddle (Aug 30, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *goinggreengirl*
> 
> My MIL said that she thought people should only have as many children as they have parents who are working. In other words, she said DH and I shouldn't have any more unless I go back to work! I guess you people who have all those kids need to find a few more parents to support them!


Wow, MIL, DH and I have always wanted a big family. I guess we'll have to start considering polygamy.

Now that I'm expecting #2 and will have one of each, I'm constantly getting the comments about having a matched set, how perfect our family is, and how we can stop now. Before #2, I constantly got the questions about when we were having another. (Ours will be almost 4 years apart--the horror!)

The weirdest fertility-related comment I got though was when I was pregnant with my first. I told one of my coworkers, and her first response was "Why didn't you tell us you were trying?" I just stared at her and said, "So was I supposed to announce 'Hey, everybody, my husband and I are having sex!' or something?" It's really bizarre how it's everyone else's business.


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## gbailey (Mar 10, 2009)

This really bothers me. It's such a rude question to ask. My neighbor gets this a lot and it really used to bother her but now she replies, "Truthfully, I'm not sure who the father or fathers could be. They were conceived during my wild days."After that the person asking the question has nothing left to say! LOL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> *I get this a lot along with such rich variations on it as"do your kids have the same father?"* and "I bet you've learned your lesson now" and "are you sure you know what you're doing."
> 
> ...


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## MovnMama (Jul 3, 2009)

On both sides - "too" many or "when are you having more?" - both questions just RUDE. I like the feeling that we are all in it together against nosy nellies.

I only have one, but yep, once the 2 year mark hit, EVERYONE wanted to know when we were going to have another one. Like it's any of their business! So I used to just shrug, and evade the question. Then (because we WERE trying at the time) once I had a miscarriage, I just HATED to be asked that question. It did make me want to cry. So I told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but.

Them: "So, when are you guys going to have another one?"

Me: "Well, actually I've just had a miscarriage. Thanks for asking."

Sometimes, the person would want to offer condolences, as if I want any from them, I'll just cut them off.

"Yeah, thanks for bringing it up. I love talking about it." Call me rude. Whatever. I think I did tear up once or twice. The person just looked awkward. Good.

Oh, and also, WTF is up with the questions about husband getting fixed/why didn't you tell us you were trying? SO RUDE. If someone asked me about DH getting "fixed" I'd simply answer "no" and then ask "So how's your/your husband's penis doing?" Totally point out how rude it is to ask a personal question like that? Or maybe I could just ask why they are interested in knowing about my spouse's genitals?


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

this is interesting to me from a sociological perspective. if i think of it in a "it takes a village to raise a child" then children are, in a way, something that everyone should be interested in.

i could also see how there is the potential for large numbers of children to tax the "village" resources.

there could also be something evolutionary to it, in the way that seeing someone create many offspring will increase the likelihood of their genes surviving and the rest of the village might not be doing this, putting them at a disadvantage for genetic survival.

another thing that i think i take for granted is that it is relatively recent that women were able to control their childbearing. i know that many older women see this as a positive thing and might have a hard time understanding why someone would not take advantage of something that they would have liked.

i have two kids (boy/girl 3 years apart) and i'd love to have more, but it's really an impossibility right now for us as i'm just finishing school and needing to start working. so, when people comment, "you're so lucky to have one of each with such nice spacing" i like to remind them that i didn't plan any of them and it's just what life tossed my way. anyway, just trying to think of some reasons why people might feel like this is a comfortable topic to comment on.


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## kawa kamuri (Apr 19, 2006)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *PlayaMama* 


> anyway, just trying to think of some reasons why people might feel like this is a comfortable topic to comment on.


Good points. I always thought they felt comfortable commenting on the intimate details of my reproduction because they had no tact


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> This really bothers me. It's such a rude question to ask. My neighbor gets this a lot and it really used to bother her but now she replies, "Truthfully, I'm not sure who the father or fathers could be. They were conceived during my wild days."After that the person asking the question has nothing left to say! LOL


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## Nicole730 (Feb 27, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MovnMama*
> 
> On both sides - "too" many or "when are you having more?" - both questions just RUDE. I like the feeling that we are all in it together against nosy nellies.
> 
> ...


You weren't rude at all! Good for you, more people should respond like that.

When my husband's uncle asked me when we were having another and my son was only 3 months old. I said something about how we weren't even having sex yet, so it'd kind of hard to have baby. I wish I could remember exactly what I said, but I know I said the word "sex" and he looked at me like I was crazy and walked away.[


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Quote:


> When we found out it was a girl again peopel apolagized and said other mean spirited things to the point that my one daughter wanted to become a boy. They also again told us we should stop having kids.


This exact thing happened to me when I was pregnant with my 3rd boy. I was fuming. "Oh, I'm so sorry, looks like you won't get your girl" or "Oh, you poor thing, you'll have to go through it again if you want to try for a girl." And one woman (stranger in a grocery store) said, in front of my kids, "If the next one isn't a girl, you had better *stop*.

I hated the assumption that I was only pregnant "yet again" in order to "try for a girl". I'd love girl, but that is not the reason we want to have a big family. If I had 10 boys, I'd be thrilled. Also hate the assumption that I was grudgingly "going through it again" as if it was some kind of torture. bleah.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I have had a lot of losses too but still get crap from people. I was actually told that losing babies was "God's way of saying no more." I answer to this "God does not kill babies to teach lessons" and "so what is he saying when 9 yr olds get pregnant?" and "So you speak for God now?"

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamabearsoblessed*
> 
> My sister has twins~ now 22!!! And when people said that she'd always reply. "YES! Best ME, not you! I'm the lucky one!"
> 
> ...


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

that's what i thought at first too. but there there were three pages of people saying that this was something that people felt comfortable to comment on, like it was a socially acceptable thing to do.

which made me think why? why would this be socially acceptable?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kawa kamuri*
> 
> Good points. I always thought they felt comfortable commenting on the intimate details of my reproduction because they had no tact


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## lunarlady (Jan 4, 2010)

I only have two, but my friends have more and that does seem to illicit comments from the rude and tactless. One friend has twins, and he got sick of people asking if they had fertility treatments. So whenever somebody asked " did you do IV?". He would say " no. We had sex twice in the same night. " He said he loved the shocked looks he would get.

Another friend has three, and gets comments on that, along with the "so, are you going to have more?". She usually quips "well, I think we are going to stop here because otherwise they will always add gratuity to our check automatically, and that would bug me."

My friend with four went boy, girl, boy, girl. When people make snarky comments to him he says "look, they go boy, girl, boy, girl. Clearly it is just like I planned."

As a mom of two who is tired and bedraggled with one crazy toddler underfoot you can be sure if you catch me staring at your big family it is just that I'm looking for your secrets to child management. Chances are your brood are much better behaved than my pair.


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## mindosxan (Feb 25, 2011)

Wow, this has been so enlightening! I truly did not realize the idiocy moms with more that one child have had to face. I am one of those on the flip side with one child who is 5years old. I have gotten rude questions about having more for years. It does annoy me to no end because it seems like they are implying one isn't enough which was previously mentioned. I always field it with "I nearly died having this one and it is more important to me to be able to be his mommy than risk my life to get pregnant again." or something like " I would like to have one more, but I may not be able to thanks to the damage done having my first." People really don't get that it's none of their business either way, but I like to sort of overshare so they can revel in the awkwardness. I hope that maybe my overshare will prevent them from making idiotic statements in the future.


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## mevvi (Feb 18, 2011)

slightly off-topic  : I happen to read a blog of a mom who was blessed with two pairs of twins. Just imagine! She often speaks of those shocked looks she gets in the street , andf her kids are very...lively too, so you can imagine  She just acts natural, and never feels she has to explain herself, and neither do you I only have 1 kid and don't want more than 2, but it's your business, nobody has the right to tell you stuff like that. IGNORE THEM!


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## SuburbanHippie (Aug 29, 2008)

When I was pregnant with #3, my mom started in on me about "this should be the last one." I really think her reasoning was that two kids (8 years apart mind you) was too much for her to handle so how could I possibly handle 3 (8 and under)? When I was pregnant with #4, she kept harping on me about DH getting a vasectomy. As if my husband's genitalia has anything to do with her. I just kept saying that "We'll get around to it" meaning probably after the next baby. LOL. My last pregnancy ended in a m/c and she really couldn't contain herself about the vasectomy thing. I never replied back, just changed the subject. So now I'm pregnant with #5 and she hasn't said a darn thing about it. Oddly enough, DH has a referral for a vasectomy. LOL.


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## 2goingon2 (Feb 8, 2007)

When I was pregnant with #5 my husband and I wanted to have t-shirts printed that read:

Yes, we know how pregnancy happens

Yes, we are having boy #4

No, we were not trying for a girl

Yes, we are happy

No, it's not too many

And no, it's none of your business

I couldn't believe the comments made. They came from my family, friends, co-workers and strangers alike. It got to the point to where we would just look at people when they made a comment like that.


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## fyrwmn (Jan 5, 2009)

i think people just like to comment. we got pg with dd (our first) literally the night dh came home from a year and a half deployment to iraq, so we got alot of "we know what you guys were doing". well of course...i haven't seen my dh in how long, so obviously we would be "reconnecting" lol.

when she was 2ish we started getting alot of "when are you having another?" type questions. mind you, we started ttc when she was 9mo and had gone thru 3 end of 1st trimester losses by the time she was 2. i was far from pleasant to people who asked, and i'm sure they regretted asking!

we finally got pg with ds1 (our 2nd living babe) and he was born when dd was 3.5yrs. everyone seemed concerned during the pg that it MUST be a boy. like that was the only reason we kept trying. we didn't share the pg with anyone till 20wks and kept the "boy" part a secret for quite a while. when people asked if we wanted a boy, i'd tell them that we were actually just praying for a baby that was alive, and that 2nd to that, healthy was our only other hope.

ds1 was 8mo when we got pg with ds2. we got alot of shocked comments about how close together they'd be, etc. i had alot of fun watching the shock on people 's faces when they discovered i was pg again too! i usually wore ds1 in a front carry when we were out and about...did till about 8mo pg, so he hid the belly pretty well.

now i can't go into a store without someone commenting how i have my hands full. i have a 5yr old, a 21mo, and a 4mo. i get how that does keep me busy, but still. not only is it said in a "you poor crazy woman" type way, but it is said in front of the kids. and what kills me is that while they can be quite wild at times, they are usually behaving very well when we get these comments. one of the grocery store managers that is actually an old friend of dh's has commented a few times on how brave i am to take all 3 shopping. she only has 2, and she also goes out of her way to come say hi to the kids when she sees us, so i give her the benefit of the doubt. still, some days i'd like to respond with "next time i'll leave one home alone, in the car, etc. i do often feel as though people see me out with them and figure i'm "one of THOSE women" as i have the baby in a wrap, the toddler in the buggy (hopefully actually sitting on his bum lol), and the preschooler trailing along beside me (again hopefully not touching things she shouldn't).

i think the oddest comment i got was in the parking lot at target a few weeks after ds2 was born. a woman came up to me and said she'd seen us in the store and just had to let me know how lucky i was to be able to have babies. i wasn't sure if it was meant as a compliment, or if i'd acted grouchy toward dd (always possible if it's one of those touch everything in every aisle days) or what. i just said thank you and quickly finished putting the kids in their car seats.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

You know, thinking about it... I know my parents got a lot of flak for having 6 kids, but whenever I admit to having five sisters, people my age tend to think it's great. Always have. I'd get way heaps of envious "Man, I wish I had a sister" or "I always wanted a big family" comments; also plenty of shocked "Whoa, SIX girls? No boys?" comments, but they weren't overtly judgmental, just surprised.

Mum, on the other hand, had to deal with the usual - the assumption she must be trying for a boy, the "how can you afford more kids?", the comments from her mother. Fun fun fun.

I'm not sure if I should be pleased or annoyed, but our entire acquaintance seems to be on the "Why haven't you had another one yet?" end of the spectrum than the "Don't have any more" one. Mum and Dad are vaguely kindasorta quiverfull (as far as I can make out, they don't mind spacing children, but don't like the idea of permanent BC and are a fan of large families) ; MIL and FIL are Catholics, although they only have two kids for medical reasons, so they're not as dogmatic as they could be; and a lot of my friends or parents' friends are homeschoolers, who are often either QF or Catholic or just like big families.

So the pressure started early.  One friend of Mum's started every conversation with her after the wedding with "Are they pregnant yet? Why not?". (Charming.) When we got pregnant with DD after five months of marriage, our next-door neighbor/landlord (QF) said it was "about time". As soon as DD was one year old, the comments started FLOODING in about having another one. And of course, now we're expecting baby number 2, we have all the "Oh, thank goodness it's a boy" comments to enjoy as well. (I've started sweetly replying "Actually, we were hoping for a girl", just out of cantankerousness. It's true, but we're perfectly happy to have a boy - but as one of six girls, I like to remind people that it's a little offensive to assume another girl isn't wanted!)

The funny thing is, we originally intended to have a large family, and now - due to a combination of birth trauma and personality issues and horrible pregnancies and various other things - we probably won't. I'd still like to, but I'm not sure if I could cope. Having this baby was the result of HUGE mental effort and, frankly, bravery; so it annoys me when people greet the news with a kind of "Well, it's about time, what were you doing for the last two and a half years?" attitude. I spent a good part of that time trying not to go into panic attacks every time I thought about giving birth again; it wasn't like I was sipping cocktails! (And even if I had been, none of their business...)

So, yeah. No right answer. I admit that since I've learned a lot more about nutrition and how depleted the mother's body gets after repeated back-to-back pregnancies, I sometimes cringe a little inside when I hear friends are having babies every year, particularly on poor diets. But I wouldn't say anything; for one thing it's just plain rude, and for another, for all I know they have a medical condition that means they need to have all their children ASAP... or religious beliefs that preclude BC... or whatever. My priorities aren't theirs, you know?


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## bugglette (Mar 5, 2011)

I only have one (3yrs) and haven't received many "when are you having more?" comments/questions. However, I watch 2, sometimes 3 kids during the day and like to take them out a lot (along with my own son), and have gotten a lot of comments when I'm with them all.

Once, in the mall, I had the 6mo old in the ergo, front carrying, and had both boys (2 and 3yrs) in a sit 'n stand stroller. The younger boy was sleeping and my son was asking nicely if he could have a pretzel. An older woman approached me, GRABBED my hands, looked me straight in the eye with a worried look and said "please tell me that you are not pregnant again!" I just smiled, patted the baby's back and said "nope, not yet" and she left me alone. I also get a lot of "how many daddies are there?" Since, none of the kids I watch look like me, or each other....so obviously I'm a floozy or something for taking so many kids out that don't look alike...lol. I don't even know how to reply to those..I usually just say that I'm a daycare provider and that they are not all mine.


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## elanorh (Feb 1, 2006)

Bugglette, my aunt was watching my siblings and me one day - with her own two kids, who were born equidistant between cousins (so about 6 months apart from the cousins they were with). There were 5 of us at the time - so it would have been 9, 7, 6, 4, 3, 2, 18 months. Some woman walked up to her and berated her for her irresponsibility and asked her if they were all hers. My aunt, the eldest of 12, snapped out, "Yes, they are, and I love every one of them." And walked off. She said later if the woman couldn't tell that it was physically impossible for her to have had all of us, given our age, then the woman didn't deserve a truthful response.

Smokering, I'm from a family of 7 girls, I know exactly what you went through with nosy strangers asking questions and making assumptions - we were asked all the time whether my parents were "trying for a boy." How insulting. My dad's mother apparently lectured my parents with each pregnancy about how they should stop. She was a very loving grandma to us all though, we didn't know she'd been haranguing our parents until we were adults and Mom told us.

I think a lot of people simply don't think about the possibility that people might be desperately trying to conceive, or suffering multiple miscarriages, when they say the things they say. They may not have ever experienced those problems, and assume that others haven't either. Not to justify what they say -- but I did snap at one of my sisters when she asked when I'd be getting pregnant again (about 5 months after my miscarriage, which I had only told my mom and one other sister about). Ironically, she still asks me whether I'm pregnant when we get together. I think it's because her dh is DONE and she wishes she weren't done, so she's living vicariously through my perceived possibility of being pregnant. And since I've a dh who'd like to be done, and I'm not ready to be done, it hurts every time. Ugh.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlayaMama*
> 
> that's what i thought at first too. but there there were three pages of people saying that this was something that people felt comfortable to comment on, like it was a socially acceptable thing to do.
> 
> which made me think why? why would this be socially acceptable?


sociologically speaking i think its a combination of many factors. however i am talkign about rude people in general - not just with this comment.

i think its the remnant of 'the village'. where people were parts of social control that instilled in those around what the right way to do things are. this is not something new. rude vociverous people have existed all along. those who wanedt to found roles to play in society like elders or some kind of leader guiding the people.

today i think the isolation is also a cause for some. they still have the need to instill social control but they have no one to do it to. so they choose random strangers.

and as another mommy here pointed out some of it is also the 'saviour' mentality. all that talk of population explosion really affects some people. for some enough to never want to have kids. that is hugely major. .

for many its the expense and news issues like octet mom and irresponsible teen pregnancies.

though mostly i feel it comes from a deeper part of themselves. that they dont matter. and so insist our views on others. its a sense of their own isolation no matter how many people they have around you.

i have only one - purely due to circumstances. i face these comments when i say i wanted nothing less than 4 kids and possibly 6. how i feel cheated. adn these are people i know. for most of them its teh hardship these days of having so many kids that come to their mind (mainly financial). or the fact that parenting does not come naturally to them adn that raising kids is hard work. they do not get how i can have weekend sleepovers at my house with age ranges from 2 to 10 of about anything from 3 to 10 kids at a time. that in summer i have kids living with me for weeks at a time during my school break.

on the whole though i feel these are signs of breakdown of social 'behaviour' (for lack of a better word). people choosing the easy way out. the urban way of living (not sure waht to call it, the reason why so few people dont cook these days because it takes up so much time). life is so hard why bring more hard stuff on you. do you know how many women i overhear saying 'oh he's so much trouble - its not worth it'. people are no longer willing to work on relationships (which i can understand too). relationships are trouble. children are trouble. why would you want to add more to your plate?


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## member234098 (Aug 3, 2002)

.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

I only have two, intentionally. But I have a few friends who have larger families....4, 5, 6 kids. I don't care how many kids a couple has; I do expect, however, that the couple has concrete plans for caring for so many little people. In other words, if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em. That goes for one kid or twelve. That's my personal opinion, but I don't unload my opinion on random people I meet in day-to-day life.


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## KristyDi (Jun 5, 2007)

I my DD is 3 and I've gotten a lot of "When are you going to give her a brother or sister?" type comments. I like to gently over share a bit so people maybe get the idea that that question is a bit emotionally loaded for casual conversation. I usually say something like, "Well we haven't used any form of birth control since dd was born, so we're hoping I'll get pregnant soon. Of course it took over a year and a miscarriage to get pregnant with dd, so we're trying to be patient." or if I'm feeling less nice, "We're working on it, but my body doesn't seem to be cooperating."

Recently someone commented just a few hours after I got my period after being a few days late and thinking, "maybe this time" She said, "That sweet girl needs a brother or sister to play with! Y'all need to get busy making her one!" obviously intending to be funny and had no ill intentions. I teared up while responding. I bet she doesn't make any more comments quite like that, she felt so badly about nearly making me cry.

I'd really love to have a large family, but DH isn't really on board for that and with my age and how long it apparently takes us to get pregnant it doesn't look likely that we'll have more than 2. I'm still hoping for 3 though.

If you see me staring at your large family, it's probably because I'm a little jealous.


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## 31rubies (Dec 18, 2010)

A family member asked me once, as he was taking a sip of water from the sink, "you do know how that happens, right?" I replied, "yes, I think it's something in the water..."

You have to keep your sense of humor.










I have four (so far) and we attract lots of comments, they are almost always positive. But the attention does make me nervous that someone will say something mean in front of my children. I don't know why people would say such thoughtless comments I have read in this thread. Some are jealous, some worry about overpopulation, and fortunately concerning the population, they can safely leave that in God's hands where it belongs.


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## jillc512 (Aug 31, 2005)

As a mom of one boy and one girl, I did like having another to confuse the camp who believes that already having two children of the same gender is the only acceptable reason to have a 3rd.

Miss Manners says the appropriate response to any of these questions is, "Why would you ask such a personal question?". But I kind of like just telling the whole, warts-and-all truth.

Best response to "When are you going to have another one?" (or "When are you going to have kids?") I ever heard was from a co-worker: "Two years after the last person asks us that question, and YOU just reset the clock."

It IS an interesting topic of conversation, so I get why people ask. (I don't get why people feel the need to comment, however -- I guess it's the same impulse as the grocery store clerk telling me to "Never give in to tantrums" when I was 8 months pregnant with #1.) I sometimes ask someone if others are bugging them about getting pregnant (if they don't have kids) or having another one (if they have a 2- or 3yo),. I feel like this gives them more options as far as what/how much to share, but maybe this is also a rude question?


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## Carolina Kel (Jul 1, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scottishmommy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Yeah that.

I have a 2 y.o. boy and a brand spankin' new daughter and the first thing out of most people's mouths is "A boy and a girl, you're so lucky."

I *am* lucky - not because I won the gender lottery, but because I have 2 happy, healthy rockin' kids. Both were preemies brought on by preeclampsia, and because of this, we aren't having any additional kiddos. However, I still resent the implied meaning that *because* we have a boy and a girl, we shouldn't have any more... it's still my decision.


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## member234098 (Aug 3, 2002)

.


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## jenplus4fr (Feb 26, 2011)

The gall of the guy! That's incredible.


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## jenplus4fr (Feb 26, 2011)

My husband is one of five, and I am one of three. When we married, we decided on four kids. I had three beautiful girls, followed by a little boy (now 8). My own father had the gall to tell me that he certainly hoped I was done having children (and this, after my third little girl). I told him that was not his decision to make. I think he was worried that since my husband was a practicing Catholic, I'd be popping kids out indefinitely, lol! (Ours are close together.) Everyone assumed we stopped because we'd *finally* had a boy. No, we're done because we'd decided enough was enough! I'm certainly very happy to have both genders represented, but I was not going to keep on having kids until I finally got the boy! I think people just talk to make conversation, without thinking about how gauche they really are.

Occasionally, I worry about how my daughters take these crude remarks, especially the third one, but I try to make sure to let them know that I love having my three girls!


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## cdmommie (Aug 7, 2007)

Z .
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scottishmommy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Ya, I only have 2 right now and I get comments every once in a while like "oh, two girls? Too bad one of them wasn't a boy. Then you could be done having kids." THAT comment hits me harder than the "why would you want more?" comments. We are adopting so the comments are a little different, still hurtful though.


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## branbran54 (Jun 16, 2010)

I just had our third child on March 17. While I was in labor, my mother was asking me if I was going to get my tubes tied. It drives me crazy. She is so much against us having anymore and I am not sure why. We don't ask her to babysit, she doesn't support us financially, and we never ask her for anything. She hates that I am a SAHM. It is like that is not good enough for her. Then, to make matters worse, my grandfather told my other aunt to talk to me about not having anymore. My aunt told him that it wasn't anybody's business but mine and my husband's if we had anymore because I am the one who takes care of my kids. We are planning on having more and honestly, it makes me want to move away before I get pregnant again.


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## LessTraveledBy (Feb 9, 2005)

So many crazy people out there!!

We used to be asked all the time when we would have another. First it hurt, then it hurt more, then... well.... You get the point. Now that dd has turned 6, people don't ask anymore. Instead, many seem to put us in the category of "too selfish to have another one" or something crazy like that. I feel like we should dress and treat our dd worse than average, because anything else means she is spoiled and the reason we don't have more children. Considering that we always wanted a large family, the comments and looks hurt terribly. It is made worse by the fact that dd has asked God for a sibling ever since she was 2. Then again, I think at this point I would rather take the attitude that seems to say "I have her all figured out" than the questions, as I might really start to cry hard. While there is nothing wrong with tears, this matter is too personal to want to share that way with half strangers.

It is actually interesting how many people know that infertility exists but think that having one or more means you will be able to have as many as you would like. These rude questions are good examples of that: Instead of asking how many children someone would like, the question is often how many are you going to have, or planning to have, or something like that. Yet, a huge % of pregnancies are unplanned and then there are the many that never happen, even when much hoped for.


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## Kimmyc2 (Sep 1, 2009)

Oh Man, how RUDE. When I told my boss at the time I was pregnant with my second (two years after my first) his response was "AGAIN!?!". My response was "yes, we never planned to have an only child" I was just taken back at his level of unprofessionalism and rudeness.

I started reading this because I was interested what people say back. I really want to have a third but may not be able to for medical reasons. However, I have people comment all the time that I must be done since I have "a perfect family" one boy and one girl. I never know how to respond. I usually say something about wanting one more but we'll see what happens. It always rubs me the wrong way though as if they are telling me i need to stop at 2. I mean they are so beautiful, how could you not want more.


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## Jynuine (Jan 9, 2011)

Im expecting my 7th and I look really young, so I get a lot of seemingly rude comments.

What I have realized over the years is that:
1.) People don't realize they are unoriginal and are not the first ones to ask these questions.

2.) The questions or comments aren't really that funny or witty to begin with.

3) Sometimes people are genuinely unable to wrap their brains around the concept of having a handful of kiddos, usually because of the brainwashing our media does to downplay parenting, marriage and pregnancy/childbirth in GENERAL and/or due to their own poor experiences with other parents who don't do a very good job at disciplining properly.

Some of the more common feedback I get from strangers is:


*"Don't you own a TV?"*
*"Have you figured out how that happens, yet?"*
*"These can't ALL be yours...."*
*"How do you DO it?"*
*"Are they all from the same dad?"*
*"Are you even old enough to have 1?"*
*"Are you done yet?"*

What a lot of people don't realize is that what really is of poor-taste and is rude, coming from a complete stranger- is typical conversation on sitcoms. People really are training themselves that these things are funny, witty and acceptable to joke around with a complete stranger on and don't realize how tacky it is. You can almost see them waiting for the audience laughter at the end.

This is one reason I have patience for it most of the time. They just really are naive. I usually have an equally or better witty comeback to offset it, but more than anything I feel it's MY JOB to help educate these people that having a large family can be fun, enjoyable, fulfilling, and that it can almost extend your youth, even more. Pregnancy doesn't have to be the worst time of your life. You can actually look forward to your births, you can even enjoy parenting your kids and feel like you would enjoy more in the future.

Also, kids DONT have to be out of control maniacs. I can take my kids out to the store with me or out to eat. They aren't on a rampage, in other people's physical or audible space, neither are they perfect with flat smooth braids on either side of their heads walking in single file order with blank stares. They're giggling, making jokes about things, asking questions, figuring out things on their own, having conversations and there have been MANY times that a typical conversation between my kids and I grocery shopping have brought about spontanious laughter from aisles on the other sides of us. We are more or less a conundrum to the general public who is trained that large families are pure uncontained chaos.

The one thing I struggle with the most- isn't the public comments. It's the family judgements. My family does not understand how I do not feel 'done' yet and breaking the news-yet again- that I am pregnant is TEDIOUS. It's worse than birth. I have joked around many times that I will notify my family when the baby is born that I was expecting another, hahaha!

"But... don't you feel DONE yet, Jyn? WHY do you feel like you have to have another? Isn't (current number of the year) enough for you???"

This reaction has NOTHING to do with our ability to provide or our parenting skills and have everything to do with worldy standards that people hold themselves to. The financial responsibility of putting them through college, of paying for weddings, of this of that... it's unrealistic to us and we're happy without those expectations.

My kids do not need to all be in ballet, horseback riding and violin lessons every year to be well rounded. They do not need to have their whole college tuition payed for by mom and dad completely in order to be functional smart human beings. We do not need to provide them with 4-5 expensive Christmas presents every year to be satisfied individuals and sometimes the family can treat us like they have to make up for that themselves because we dont budget for it.

It's taken quite a bit for myself, personally, to get to the point where I can blow off their opinions as unimportant in our decision making, and just follow what OUR family is comfortable with. My husband is very very happy with our family and open to having as many as God blesses us with, as am I. We arent on a binge to beat the Duggars or have as MANY KIDS as possible before my fertility wears out. We just follow what feels natural and good for us, and we are a well rounded happy family. This doesn't mean that since I am having seven kids I expect EVERYONE to have seven kids- but I think that people need to be open to allowing others to have that pleasure in what is good.

I think each individual needs to search themselves and figure out what they really want. Other people outside our immediate family (husband's wives, etc) ARE outsiders, and as much as we can respect their opinion- we have the right to disagree and reject it because ultimately it is our choice as we decide the paths of our own family, to do what feels best for us.

Do remember that as you walk around and correspond with people, large family or not- you are helping other people form an opinion on large vs small families. Even with what little interaction you have, what contribution are you putting out- even if you initially are getting negative feedback? If your words were to resonate in the minds of everyone you talked to about childrearing and childbearing- what sort of imprint would you be making?


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## 31rubies (Dec 18, 2010)




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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

I know this is on a tangent, and I would still NEVER say anything in person with regards to it, but I admit to passing some judgement on mamas who have children to the point of threatening their own health. I have only known two that I'm aware of. I dated a guy in high school who was one of six, and his mother was told after the fourth (in which case she had her first c-section) that something was not right in there and she shouldn't have any more. During the sixth birth, she nearly bled to death and had to have an emergency hysterectomy.

I know another woman presently who has six (but nine pregnancies), and her body is pretty destroyed, and she is only 31 or 32. She has severe hyperemesis with each pregnancy, loses a ton of weight and has to take medication that knocks her out for much of the day. She also has some other health condition that doesn't mesh well with pregnancy. Her hair is already 90% gray and her teeth look terrible. I just don't understand why she can't be happy with what she has...??? It almost seems like a case of hoarding, but children instead of belongings. Hers is not a healthy situation. Six living children need a healthy, functioning mother.


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## Jynuine (Jan 9, 2011)

Well, I know that my body is tired I have a separated pubic bone and I just turned 34. I do my best to stay healthy though, and I know that conventional medicine doesn't ALWAYS know best. That one LAST child is probably a HUGE blessing to the woman though, Im sure!

Again, it depends on the person. There is that 65 yr old grandmother who who wanted more sold everything to get pregnant in FRANCE and ended up being the oldest woman to give birth in recorded history. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I believe God can give us fertility and He can take it away. I just pray that HE gives me the resolve to 'feel' done before He takes mine away.


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## mt_gooseberry (Jun 25, 2010)

This Christmas I had just found out that I was expecting my second. I was going to share the news as we gathered with the family, until my Aunt looked at me and said, "Oh, you look so good! I'm so glad you're not pregnant again yet!" Needless to say, the news was not shared that night. My first was 10 months when I got pregnant, and a lot of the negative comments seem to be about getting pregnant again so soon. My grandmother had 13 children, so I have a hard time understanding why people tell me I should be done after this one. Even my own mom tells me to be done! I am married. I have a bachelor's degree. I am not on public assistance. My babies are and will be dearly loved. So it irks me that people, especially my own mother, make these comments like it's a burden to them! I understand about overpopulation, but frankly I don't see many of these people doing their part to conserve resources, and that could do just as much to stretch the world's supportive capabilities as cutting back human fertility.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I figured out why I am so annoyed this time around-- I'm getting the stupid big family questions AND the stupid twin questions. It's a double whammy.

BTW, my favorite answer to "How did that happen?" or "Don't you know what causes that?" is to explain in painstaking detail. It shut my grandma right up.


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## gumblossom (Oct 23, 2009)

Yep, I've heard them all. And it's annoying. I have 5 children. They are fairly spaced out, my eldest is 19 and my youngest is 2.

I really want one last baby, and sadly lost a baby at christmas time. I'm hoping to fall pregnant soon, because I am getting old and worry that my fertility will be gone soon.

I've had all the rude comments over the years, but I think it may have been worst when I was expecting my 4th. People were so rude. 8 years later I had my 5th and i think that people were so surprised they said very little.

Recently we were at a party and one of my husband's colleagues said something derrogatory about our large family. He's always making inappropriate comments so I replied:,"Actually we like to have sex all the time. We are at it like rabbits, that's probably why we keep having kids". That shut him up.

What has hurt the most is that family feel they have the right to tell us how many children to have, especially as they are very unhelpful, and don't see my children all that often.

When my DH and I were planning our third child, he confided in his mother. She tried to talk him out of it! She said , "are you sure? Isn't two enough?do you really want to burden yourselves with another child?" I found it so hurtful, and to be honest, I've not liked her ever since that comment (and because she has so little time for her grandchildren who are wonderful people). My parents are no better. I have realized over the years that family says these things because it is really their own agenda : They are quite selfish and don't want to spend the "required grandparent" time with my kids. I think they got over it, because they don't spend the time.

At christmas time we were talking about my DS and I said something about how I'd happily have another so he could have a sibling close in age. Dh's sister's response was "Oh My God! Are you mad?Would you really like another?" I was taken aback by her comment, so I just said, "Yes.In a heartbeat", and walked away. Why would it concern her? All my children are happy, balanced human beings who are contributing , and will contribute to make this world a better place. How on earth can that be a bad thing? She's never babysat for me, not really spent much time with our children, and when she has she has enjoyed them. So why the comment? I think, again, it is all about her personal agenda. She had a pidgeon pair, boy and girl, and was done.Obviously I am not her.

It is crazy that people feel they have the right to make these comments. It is rude, and even if they think these things, why don't they just keep it to themselves?


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## Jynuine (Jan 9, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
> 
> BTW, my favorite answer to "How did that happen?" or "Don't you know what causes that?" is to explain in painstaking detail. It shut my grandma right up.


I usually say, "Yeah! You have to spit OUT the watermellon seeds, right....?"
Either that or you can say, "No!!! How....?" And just wait.


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## Jynuine (Jan 9, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mt_gooseberry*
> 
> This Christmas I had just found out that I was expecting my second. I was going to share the news as we gathered with the family, until my Aunt looked at me and said, "Oh, you look so good! I'm so glad you're not pregnant again yet!" Needless to say, the news was not shared that night. My first was 10 months when I got pregnant, and a lot of the negative comments seem to be about getting pregnant again so soon. My grandmother had 13 children, so I have a hard time understanding why people tell me I should be done after this one. Even my own mom tells me to be done! I am married. I have a bachelor's degree. I am not on public assistance. My babies are and will be dearly loved. So it irks me that people, especially my own mother, make these comments like it's a burden to them! I understand about overpopulation, but frankly I don't see many of these people doing their part to conserve resources, and that could do just as much to stretch the world's supportive capabilities as cutting back human fertility.


I have those issues too. When Abbie was 2 and Gracie was 1 and I had JUST miscarried my third (11 yrs ago) , we were really struggling. My husband had been living out of our jeep in Montana doing freelance design work (he had been layed off from his job and- pregnant, I had moved the girls and myself to Chicago only to miscarry a week or so after) and I was living with my grandmother who had a 4 bedrooom house to herself since my grandfather had passed away a few years earlier. When my husband was finally able to get the money to join us in Chicago, it was great to have our family together again. For our anniversary we were able to get out, but on our way out the door my grandma said, "Now don't go getting pregnant again, now.....".

It was humiliating because we were a FAMILY. We didnt do anything to cause the issue we were in. I didnt cause my miscarriage- he didnt get fired from his well paying advertising job, either. But I still felt as though my family looked at us as ignorant incapable irresponsible adults just having kids left and right without the means to provide. Sometimes we have to take into consideration the age gaps too, of the people we are talking to. If you talked to someone who is in their 70's or 80's they would probably smile and bless you for having a large family. It's what they knew and it was normal to them. Someone who is in their mid to late 50's would be a different story.

No offense, but it was a pretty selfish generation. It wasnt popular to go off and have a lot of kids because they enjoyed it as much as they had one or two and concentrated on careers and centered on making themselves happy.

I think it's a wash nowdays as I see more and more people just letting what they want take lead instead of allowing culture and family run their lives- but it's still everywhere.


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## Greenlea (Apr 21, 2010)

When I was pregnant with my 2nd, I had people tell me they hoped I was having a girl so I could be done then. Well ummm...even if he was a girl, it didn't automatically mean we were stopping at two. My DH's sister acts like anyone who has more than two kids is insane. I have yet to tell her I plan on 4.

Then as soon as I popped out my 2nd, people were on both sides of the fence. Some were right away asking when I was going to have a third, and others, like my sister told me I couldn't have any more until I moved (we live in a 2 BR townhouse). Well thanks, sis, but thats not really for you to decide. We are currently underwater with our home, but I've already told my DH that not being able to move is not going to stop me from having a third. We will just be a little cramped for a while. And thats okay with us.


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## hjdmom24 (Mar 1, 2008)

Since annoncing my pregnancy (#5) I have found that I can only say postive things about my kids. For instance the other night I vented because my 2 year old flooded the bathroom then painted himself with chocolate almond butter while I was cleaning the bathroom and 2 people said "and you wanted another kid? Why?". I replied that I enjoy the excitment in my life an wouldn't trade it for the world


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## Mommyofalmost6 (Sep 12, 2007)

So I was doing my vounteer work the other day, I LOVE doing this and love the person in charge of the place I go to. Now I know I look young.... the older volunteer was telling the new girl how I have a large family and so on. She looks at me and goes: HOW OLD ARE YOU!! I smiled and replied, Old enough to know what causes it and young enoug to not care yet. And we are thinking of another.

Dang it. How is my age or how many kids I have public concern? No one else is raising them. We arent living off public assistance. My kids are happy, healthy, well behaved all around good kids.

People are so dang rude. Do they really think we want to talk about our husbands sperm and our eggs with them? I mean REALLY?

Next time I am gonna tell her I am 18 lol. Pretty far from the truth but could be fun just the same.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> I get this a lot along with such rich variations on it as"do your kids have the same father?" and "I bet you've learned your lesson now" and "are you sure you know what you're doing."
> 
> ...


I love you so much for this! DH and I are 25 and have 5 children (including twins) and we get crap like this all.of.the.time. As if our lives are somehow other people's business. My favorite is "do they all have the same father?" Look, first of all that is a horrible question to ask. So what if they didn't? Would that make them less worthy to be here? Would I be less of a mother? Second of all this is the 21st century. We are an interracial family and it shows. Yes they are all ours, all from the same two parents. Yes it is possible to have two fair skinned blue-eyed kids, two darker complected brown-eyed kids, and one in the middle. And yes it is possible to be a responsible and loving teen/younger parent. Check your ageism, nosiness, and ignorance at the door folks!

Another thing that bothers me is the whole "They're all yours?!" followed by the look of disgust and then "you should try again for a boy"









I don't really mind comments like "you've got your hands full" because I do but it's the judgy "you shouldn't have so many kids" attitude that I can't stand. The next time someone says something like this to me I am tempted to ask them which one they think I should put back.


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

I'm going to be hated, by some here, for saying this. I wish it wasn't something that I had to think about, or even that any people on our planet had to consider at all. I personally, hate the fact that this is even a thought.

But, I do study the Earth's resources, and population counts. ANd those population counts in comparison to resource values. Its not looking good these days. And with the progression of birth rate over the next several years, we'll have lesser and lesser food supply.

And I am not going to dog anyone, especially not here, knowing that most parents and families who come here are more into natural living and are already doing all they can to be good to the planet and our finite resources. ANd the fact that I LOVE large families. I adore the closeness and loving binds that I've experienced with friends who have 9 siblings and my friends from South America who live with Gramma, 2 sisters all 4 of their kids and all of the pets... I so adore that closeness, Its why I chose to live where I live now.

BUT. I have to ask. I don't believe that the solution to the Earth's resources and the facts that they are being depleted at an astronomical rate, mainly by the US population, is going to go away.

It's not going away by praying or from God coming to save us from destruction. I also do not think that we are able to handle continuing to create at a high number and expect our resources to provide.

I guess what I'm asking here is, from the larger families, how do you see the future of Earth? And how do you see the population, if everyone has several children, how do you see the Earth being able to support ourselves?

Again, I am NOT anti-family, I am not anti large family... I'm just curious, given the facts on our finite resources of this planet and what your ideas are... other than religion.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

Maybe if certain people did not consider it politically incorrect to offer effective birth control to people in areas that cannot support life basically, maybe the world population would go down. I find it shocking when the same people who say someone in the middle of Iowa should not have but 1-2 children, but it would be wrong to offer vasectomies for free to men in Africa where people are dying from starvation.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *number572*
> 
> I'm going to be hated, by some here, for saying this. I wish it wasn't something that I had to think about, or even that any people on our planet had to consider at all. I personally, hate the fact that this is even a thought.
> 
> ...


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

I get the opposite. My mother thinks it is ok to have multiple children..but only if it is by different people. She thinks no one should have more than one. Except anyone who has not had a child with their current partner. So SIL married my brother and had 4 children by 3 different men. But my mother is all upset that she did not also have one with my brother. So 5 children by 4 men if she did? Yet, my mother is upset that I have had 5 children by the same man. I have two cousins that married people that already had children. In both cases, they went on and had a child with that spouse. My mother also found that acceptable because "they have a right to have a child together." So I guess the key was that if I left my husband and had the 5 children by 5 different men, my mother would have been ok with it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *holyhelianthus*
> 
> I love you so much for this! DH and I are 25 and have 5 children (including twins) and we get crap like this all.of.the.time. As if our lives are somehow other people's business. My favorite is "do they all have the same father?" Look, first of all that is a horrible question to ask. So what if they didn't? Would that make them less worthy to be here? Would I be less of a mother? Second of all this is the 21st century. We are an interracial family and it shows. Yes they are all ours, all from the same two parents. Yes it is possible to have two fair skinned blue-eyed kids, two darker complected brown-eyed kids, and one in the middle. And yes it is possible to be a responsible and loving teen/younger parent. Check your ageism, nosiness, and ignorance at the door folks!
> 
> ...


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *number572*
> 
> It's not going away by praying or from God coming to save us from destruction. I also do not think that we are able to handle continuing to create at a high number and expect our resources to provide.
> 
> ...


It's also not going to go away by limiting family size. That might actually make matters worse. When you really think about it the issue with what we face in this world with depleting and damaged supplies of resources is overconsumption not overpopulation. As it stands some nations are facing issue with dwindling populations. What has changed over time is not that people are having more children but that 1) we are consuming ridiculous amounts and 2) we have advanced life-saving medicines and methods. The latter is not very popular but it's true- if you want to go the "zero population" route you're going to have to start letting people die. And no, FTR I am not suggesting we do that. But again the crisis the Earth faces is not going to be affected by reducing family size as long as we keep up with rampant overconsumption. So we restrict a couple to one child each which at first will do something but later? When we keep up with this cycle of "more, more, more. bigger bigger bigger"? We're going to be in the same mess. That one child will end up consuming more in his or her lifetime than my 5 children will in there's. And what will we have to show? A depleted population gorging itself on Earth's gifts just like we are doing now. This is a very real possibility especially taking into account that no one seems to want to curb the real issue. I'm sorry but IMO limiting procreation is a copout. Basically we don't want to have more children so we can keep using up our resources the way we have become accustomed to and beyond. What needs to change is that attitude. We need to stop the rampant overconsumption and the pollution of our beautiful world if we want her to be around for us and our posterity. If you're looking for a quick and unsustainable fix preaching limiting family size makes sense. If you want real change we all need to be taken down a notch (or 15).

So to answer your question I see us flushing Mama Earth down the toilet and fast and I see this happening with my 5 kids on this Earth or not. But maybe if we all start raising our children (no matter the number) to live consciously we can start to make a turn around.

Also, I think it's important to note that not all families will be large ones. In this day and age when so many have access to birth control and so many have other options more and more people are opting for 1 or 2 or no children at all. I for one did not have 5 children due to my religion, Mormon or no. We would have if we were Atheists. It's just who we are. As such I don't expect other people to have this many children. I'm not banking on it either way.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

That is true about over consumption. The families I see with 1-2 children usually consume way more than the families I see with 5+ children. They seem to put more in to their material goods than each other. Plus, the bigger families tend to give back more to the community than the smaller families. You certainly do not see the Duggars all with cell phones at 6 yrs old and brand new clothes every season. They don't spend a bunch of time and gas driving around for the fun of it, or teens going out just driving around with friends. Their kids are not in 100 different activities that they must be driven to all the time. They are also not on big huge diesel school buses going to and from school daily. They don't have 2 TVs per person in the household, and so on. Then they turn around and do a lot of community service work. They also don't throw out 3.4 of the food that comes in to their house. They even buy in bulk so there is limited packaging material used.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Larger families are generally forced to live more simply. And throw in it being a religious large family and some subscribe to that level of simplicity because they feel it brings them closer to God. Not all of us religious folks are about looking to the heavens and forgetting the ground beneath our feet. Some of us do hold to being stewards, caretakers, of this Earth.


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

Yeah, and I would never suggest limiting family size. I'm one person. Living with the heartache (daily) of not being able to have even one of my own, yet. I'm coming from the point of the curiosity with this question, since I have actually given time to research our planet and our finite resources. With that knowledge, fear does strike me. What are we going for here? What are we prepared to do when the resources deplete? Which, given the data, they will and very soon (within a few generations from our own). It is scary. You know? It's frightening to think about what our children's children will have to depend upon. If I am blessed with a child someday, what will he/she have to look forward to as far as resources? And will he/she even have the luxury of bearing even one child at that time?

The friends I have, who come from larger families, do have a more materialistically conservative mindset (what they use)... but, still three conservative adult kids who then procreate and even have only one child each are going to use more resources than one parent raising one child who may go one to procreate one more child. Eventually this would make the overall population decrease and put a lesser demand upon the finite resources. It does make sense if you think about it. I mean, am I missing something, b'c it's basic math in my mind. But I definitely am not looking to overstep anyone whose logic has progressed beyond my basics! Maybe there is some solution that I've not discovered yet.


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> That is true about over consumption. The families I see with 1-2 children usually consume way more than the families I see with 5+ children. They seem to put more in to their material goods than each other. Plus, the bigger families tend to give back more to the community than the smaller families. You certainly do not see the Duggars all with cell phones at 6 yrs old and brand new clothes every season. They don't spend a bunch of time and gas driving around for the fun of it, or teens going out just driving around with friends. Their kids are not in 100 different activities that they must be driven to all the time. They are also not on big huge diesel school buses going to and from school daily. They don't have 2 TVs per person in the household, and so on. Then they turn around and do a lot of community service work. They also don't throw out 3.4 of the food that comes in to their house. They even buy in bulk so there is limited packaging material used.


I'm all for the idea of making your family what you want it to be, including size, but can we lose the generalities about about small families, please? We can celebrate large families without the general bashing of small families. One kid families are very common in my area due to simple logistics: lack of space, HCOL, the older parent demographic and the logistics of getting around (a lot of us do without cars). Brash generalizations in either direction really grate me. Sorry. Let's judge consumerism for what it is.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *number572*
> but, still three conservative adult kids who then procreate and even have only one child each are going to use more resources than one parent raising one child who may go one to procreate one more child. Eventually this would make the overall population decrease and put a lesser demand upon the finite resources. It does make sense if you think about it. I mean, am I missing something, b'c it's basic math in my mind. But I definitely am not looking to overstep anyone whose logic has progressed beyond my basics! Maybe there is some solution that I've not discovered yet.


But it's not basic addition and I think that's what the problem is with this. We are assuming "1" = 1 and "3" = 3. It does seem that 1 child is more environmentally friendly than 3 but if that 1 child consumes more than those 3 children combined than that's not the case. It's not as simple as 1 is less than 3. If that "1" amounts to 75 and that "3" amounts to 20 x 3 equalling 60 going off of 1 < 3 doesn't exactly work. The thing is each number doesn't always equal to the same amount. Just because "1" is 75 doesn't mean that that "3" is standing for 3 different 75s in the equation. Clear as mud? Because I really suck and explain math-y things. Point being it just isn't simple addition. There are too many variables to reduce it to the alligator eating number three.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> I'm all for the idea of making your family what you want it to be, including size, but can we lose the generalities about about small families, please? We can celebrate large families without the general bashing of small families. One kid families are very common in my area due to simple logistics: lack of space, HCOL, the older parent demographic and the logistics of getting around (a lot of us do without cars). Brash generalizations in either direction really grate me. Sorry. Let's judge consumerism for what it is.


This is true too. The road does go both ways. Don't assume the larger family has a greater footprint than the smaller and visa vera. Again with the variables. This just isn't simple enough issue to resort to generlizations.

CC~ I apologize if I was appearing to get on smaller families cases. That wasn't what I meant at all.


----------



## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *holyhelianthus*
> 
> This is true too. The road does go both ways. Don't assume the larger family has a greater footprint than the smaller and visa vera. Again with the variables. This just isn't simple enough issue to resort to generlizations.
> 
> CC~ I apologize if I was appearing to get on smaller families cases. That wasn't what I meant at all.


No apology necessary holy! It is just that I hear this argument a lot (from both camps) about carbon foot print and I don't think it is about family size or lack thereof but about personal responsibility and how individuals act. I have my own personal opinions on carbon footprint and I think that most Americans fall dreadfully short on the amount of waste they produce - me being the first one in line! I think about simple stuff, like sandwich bags (even though we cook in bulk and try to simplify) and the napkins we get at the deli or the amount of clothes we go through during a year (even though we wear things thread bare). It is amazing the amount of waste that we generate even when we are being super conscious about it. Humans consume and create waste unfortunately. I do give a lot of credit to people (of varying family sizes) who really, really try to break the cycle. I read a blog recently of a family who has basically achieved zero waste and I admire that on so many levels. Mainly because I have a long way to go in that department even though I admittedly have my smug moments. If I do anything good in my life it is to instill in my DD the principles of being conscious about how she acts and the resources she utilizes. It doesn't matter that she is an only kid and has more resources at her fingertips. She should act in a responsible way because it is the right thing to do.


----------



## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *holyhelianthus*
> 
> But it's not basic addition and I think that's what the problem is with this. We are assuming "1" = 1 and "3" = 3. It does seem that 1 child is more environmentally friendly than 3 but if that 1 child consumes more than those 3 children combined than that's not the case. It's not as simple as 1 is less than 3. If that "1" amounts to 75 and that "3" amounts to 20 x 3 equalling 60 going off of 1 < 3 doesn't exactly work. The thing is each number doesn't always equal to the same amount. Just because "1" is 75 doesn't mean that that "3" is standing for 3 different 75s in the equation. Clear as mud? Because I really suck and explain math-y things. Point being it just isn't simple addition. There are too many variables to reduce it to the alligator eating number three.


Yeah there are variables. And variable of those variables. And no one really knows how their child will decide to live as an adult. A child could be raised very moderately and then become completely consumerist minded as an adult and utilize ten average people's resources. So, with that above clear as mud math, 1 could end up ='ing 3 +!! lol.

No one knows. And also, who is to say that someone's 9th child will not be the ONE who creates such an overwhelmingly hugely perfectly beautiful solution to an energy or food shortage problem that it saves the planet altogether. No one knows.

(I'm just asking to see what people who have a lot of kids or want a lot of kids think, as far as Earth's given resources... & from what we know so far about Earth's depletion of those resources. )


----------



## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

But children are not property. I would rather see 2 good parents have a lot of children, than bad parents have any number of children. The way this conversation is being done, it makes it sound like it is all about quantity, not quality. If nothing else is apparent on Mothering, most of us here are all about our children and love them and are really in to them. Then there is a whole world of parents who abuse them, neglect them, etc. So any argument about number of children is nonsense. I think that all convicted felons should be neutered. Frankly, I think no one should ever be allowed to have children by more than 2 people, unless there were deaths. (as in, the reason they are not with the original partner is they lost them). I think people who proven to be failures of parents should be neutered too. If none of the bad parents had children, then the rest of us would need to have a lot of children to make up for it. And try to remember, the natural increase in the USA is negative. This means, we are not replacing ourselves. For every person who dies here, there is not even 1 baby being born. Due to illegal immigration, our population still rises. As a tax payer, I do not feel obligated to have no more children to make room for people who illegally sneak in to this country and collect welfare. Why should I have to have no more children to make room for theirs?

So I think we need to stop talking about children like they are property and in terms of numbers each person is entitled to and start talking about them like real human beings and let the good parents have all the children they want and leave those parents alone. And the next man who is in the news bragging about having 17 children by 13 women, we can chop is penis off. And frankly, every single woman who had a child with him should probably be neutered too.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *number572*
> 
> Yeah, and I would never suggest limiting family size. I'm one person. Living with the heartache (daily) of not being able to have even one of my own, yet. I'm coming from the point of the curiosity with this question, since I have actually given time to research our planet and our finite resources. With that knowledge, fear does strike me. What are we going for here? What are we prepared to do when the resources deplete? Which, given the data, they will and very soon (within a few generations from our own). It is scary. You know? It's frightening to think about what our children's children will have to depend upon. If I am blessed with a child someday, what will he/she have to look forward to as far as resources? And will he/she even have the luxury of bearing even one child at that time?
> 
> The friends I have, who come from larger families, do have a more materialistically conservative mindset (what they use)... but, still three conservative adult kids who then procreate and even have only one child each are going to use more resources than one parent raising one child who may go one to procreate one more child. Eventually this would make the overall population decrease and put a lesser demand upon the finite resources. It does make sense if you think about it. I mean, am I missing something, b'c it's basic math in my mind. But I definitely am not looking to overstep anyone whose logic has progressed beyond my basics! Maybe there is some solution that I've not discovered yet.


----------



## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> But children are not property. I would rather see 2 good parents have a lot of children, than bad parents have any number of children. The way this conversation is being done, it makes it sound like it is all about quantity, not quality. If nothing else is apparent on Mothering, most of us here are all about our children and love them and are really in to them. Then there is a whole world of parents who abuse them, neglect them, etc. So any argument about number of children is nonsense. I think that all convicted felons should be neutered. Frankly, I think no one should ever be allowed to have children by more than 2 people, unless there were deaths. (as in, the reason they are not with the original partner is they lost them). I think people who proven to be failures of parents should be neutered too. If none of the bad parents had children, then the rest of us would need to have a lot of children to make up for it. And try to remember, the natural increase in the USA is negative. This means, we are not replacing ourselves. For every person who dies here, there is not even 1 baby being born. Due to illegal immigration, our population still rises. As a tax payer, I do not feel obligated to have no more children to make room for people who illegally sneak in to this country and collect welfare. Why should I have to have no more children to make room for theirs?
> 
> So I think we need to stop talking about children like they are property and in terms of numbers each person is entitled to and start talking about them like real human beings and let the good parents have all the children they want and leave those parents alone. And the next man who is in the news bragging about having 17 children by 13 women, we can chop is penis off. And frankly, every single woman who had a child with him should probably be neutered too.


Wow.


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

Uh, Oh my G no. This is no where near what I was saying. I don't even know where you got most of that.


----------



## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> But children are not property. I would rather see 2 good parents have a lot of children, than bad parents have any number of children. The way this conversation is being done, it makes it sound like it is all about quantity, not quality. If nothing else is apparent on Mothering, most of us here are all about our children and love them and are really in to them. Then there is a whole world of parents who abuse them, neglect them, etc. So any argument about number of children is nonsense. I think that all convicted felons should be neutered. Frankly, I think no one should ever be allowed to have children by more than 2 people, unless there were deaths. (as in, the reason they are not with the original partner is they lost them). I think people who proven to be failures of parents should be neutered too. If none of the bad parents had children, then the rest of us would need to have a lot of children to make up for it. And try to remember, the natural increase in the USA is negative. This means, we are not replacing ourselves. For every person who dies here, there is not even 1 baby being born. Due to illegal immigration, our population still rises. As a tax payer, I do not feel obligated to have no more children to make room for people who illegally sneak in to this country and collect welfare. Why should I have to have no more children to make room for theirs?
> 
> So I think we need to stop talking about children like they are property and in terms of numbers each person is entitled to and start talking about them like real human beings and let the good parents have all the children they want and leave those parents alone. And the next man who is in the news bragging about having 17 children by 13 women, we can chop is penis off. And frankly, every single woman who had a child with him should probably be neutered too.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> Wow.


Yeah! Lisa, I never meant anything so hateful! Are you ok? I'm willing to delete the posts associated with mine, if you want, just let me know.l have posted stuff I don't mean before too... Just let me know.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> But children are not property. I would rather see 2 good parents have a lot of children, than bad parents have any number of children. The way this conversation is being done, it makes it sound like it is all about quantity, not quality. If nothing else is apparent on Mothering, most of us here are all about our children and love them and are really in to them. Then there is a whole world of parents who abuse them, neglect them, etc. So any argument about number of children is nonsense. I think that all convicted felons should be neutered. Frankly, I think no one should ever be allowed to have children by more than 2 people, unless there were deaths. (as in, the reason they are not with the original partner is they lost them). I think people who proven to be failures of parents should be neutered too. If none of the bad parents had children, then the rest of us would need to have a lot of children to make up for it. And try to remember, the natural increase in the USA is negative. This means, we are not replacing ourselves. For every person who dies here, there is not even 1 baby being born. Due to illegal immigration, our population still rises. As a tax payer, I do not feel obligated to have no more children to make room for people who illegally sneak in to this country and collect welfare. Why should I have to have no more children to make room for theirs?
> 
> So I think we need to stop talking about children like they are property and in terms of numbers each person is entitled to and start talking about them like real human beings and let the good parents have all the children they want and leave those parents alone. And the next man who is in the news bragging about having 17 children by 13 women, we can chop is penis off. And frankly, every single woman who had a child with him should probably be neutered too.


So....no one convicted of a felony is worthy of being a parent? That's a very broad statement. Writing a bad check is a felony....based on what you are saying, a person who writes a bad check (for whatever reason) and is convicted of it is therefore incapable of parenting a child? Do you think that all convicted felons are terrible people who can't change their lives and become upstanding productive citizens? I'm sorry, but that really burns me. I my mind that is just as bad as saying that all gay people have aids, or all single mothers are whores. What a MAJOR stereotype.

And....I know this is not an illegal immigration debate, but people do not hide in trucks for days, wade through rivers, get lost in deserts with their children and pay thousands of dollars to shady traffickers just to come to the US and collect a $400/month welfare check. They just.....don't. Believe me or not, I don't care, but I don't know very many illegal immigrants (and I have known plenty) who don't work. If they aren't working, the fathers are working 60 and 70 hrs a week doing hard hard labor, and the moms are at home taking care of their children, which considering we are on MDC, I assume we all agree is a worthy occupation of one's time.

You come across with an "us" vs. "them" mentality. That "whole other world" of neglectful, abusive, horrible parents. Of course there are parents who don't do right, but I truly believe that *most* parents do their be? st with what they have available, what they know, and based on their own experiences in life. I don't think the solution is to neuter peple who make mistakes. How about educating them? Offering them tools to better themselves as potential parents?

Also, the "natural" increase in the US has been negative since the days of Jamestown. ALL of us are born of immigrants. Some are just more recent than others.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

What waiting said.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

They were generalization words. And I do not think that bad checks are generally a felony, unless maybe you wrote out stolen checks. What I meant is...things like murderers and rapists and drunk drivers. Heck, as long as we are on that..we could expand it even more...but the whole point is..it is not about quantity, it is about quality. Why should a good family not have more children while some guy who knocks off grocery stores or kills children in drunk driver incidents, or has had their children taken away by CPS (understanding that not 100% of the cases are truly founded, but I am talking the founded cases) still have children? Or women. It is not just men that are failing as parents, it is the women too. Or the person who has 3 children by 3 different men by the time they turn 18 and not graduate high school? Why would they be "entitled" to the same number of children as the family who cares for their children, raise their children, love their children, provide for them, etc? Because it is not about quantity....it is about quality. There are too many people having children that don't have much interest in raising them properly. Those are the ones who should not be having more. Any man who brags to the news about 17 kids by 13 women should have been castrated before he moved on to the 3rd woman. And that 3rd woman, who chose to have a baby with him, it never should have happened. She too should have no more, as well as the 4th and 5th..but if he had been castrated..those women would not have gotten pregnant by him.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

Because the abusive parents, and the ones who pride themselves in how many babies they can make with X number of women, are not going to get better through a little education. But the whole point of the beginning of all this is someone talking about people being entitled to a certain number, everyone equally entitled to the same number of children, as if they are property. My point is, children are not property. And if someone wants to start talking population control, they need to start with the people who are failing as parents. No one is "entitled" to X number of children.

Oh, and I was born of legal immigrants and native American. No one broke the law for me to get here.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> So....no one convicted of a felony is worthy of being a parent? That's a very broad statement. Writing a bad check is a felony....based on what you are saying, a person who writes a bad check (for whatever reason) and is convicted of it is therefore incapable of parenting a child? Do you think that all convicted felons are terrible people who can't change their lives and become upstanding productive citizens? I'm sorry, but that really burns me. I my mind that is just as bad as saying that all gay people have aids, or all single mothers are whores. What a MAJOR stereotype.
> 
> ...


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## mama naturale (Aug 6, 2006)

Its cruel. 

My husband has heard much worse than I. Mates at his work say things like "Don't you know you and your children are wasting the earth's resources?" I guess its easy for people to assume all people are wasteful like they are but we are very simply people and do not waste a thing!

I am pregnant with my 5th, this was our original plan - to have 5 children. My Mum and MIL both made very upfront comments about stopping at 2 and it is upsetting but I think they have learned we are stubborn and will do what we want.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

If you re read my post...I never said all small families or all large families. In fact, I said words like large families tend to. The statement tend to...does not mean "all do" it means tend to. I said a lot of smaller families and a lot of larger families..not all larger families or all smaller families. That was just you reading in to my post to say something it did not say.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CatsCradle*
> 
> I'm all for the idea of making your family what you want it to be, including size, but can we lose the generalities about about small families, please? We can celebrate large families without the general bashing of small families. One kid families are very common in my area due to simple logistics: lack of space, HCOL, the older parent demographic and the logistics of getting around (a lot of us do without cars). Brash generalizations in either direction really grate me. Sorry. Let's judge consumerism for what it is.


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## NannyMcPhee (Nov 24, 2010)

Wow.

Thats probably one of the most offensive and ignorant things I have ever read on this site.


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## kama'aina mama (Nov 19, 2001)

Undocumented aliens cannot collect welfare. I can't imagine why you think they can.

I'm gonna try hard not to address your thoughts on eugenics, since I doubt anything I would say is permitted to be said here,, and I hate pulling a Godwin, even when it's called for.


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## CorriJ (Mar 29, 2011)

Wow this topic got touchy. I mean it started out touchy but it took a big turn. As someone who is originally from Canada and is in the process of going through the immigration process it seems rather unfair the way so many people look at it. I was told many times by the various people we spoke with that I was lucky because I'm white, female and from Canada, and that would make everything simpler for me.

As to the questions on kids. I'm thankful that my husband and I haven't had to hear too many yet. But now that we've been married for a year, I'm starting to hear it. Mostly from my mom who asks when I'm going to make her a grandma. I know she's joking but it rubs the wrong way because she knows we are waiting and she knows the reasons why. Other then that I get the occasional "do you have kids" but everyone just accepts that we are waiting a couple more years to 'settle in'.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

What if there was a law against allowing extremely judgmental people to procreate? That should lighten the load a bit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Lisa1970* 


> Or the person who has 3 children by 3 different men by the time they turn 18 and not graduate high school? Why would they be "entitled" to the same number of children as the family who cares for their children, raise their children, love their children, provide for them, etc?


Basically what you are saying is a teen mom is automatically a bad mom and a mom who has children by different fathers is the same. You even go as far as to say they aren't deserving of children. Oh and the whole graduating from high school thing because apparently having a high school diploma helps one to be a good parent. Wowza. This makes me wonder who is deserving of children then. What are the qualifications?

Quote:


> Any man who brags to the news about 17 kids by 13 women should have been castrated before he moved on to the 3rd woman. And that 3rd woman, who chose to have a baby with him, it never should have happened. She too should have no more, as well as the 4th and 5th..but if he had been castrated..those women would not have gotten pregnant by him.


But what you are describing here doesn't in and of itself make a bad parent. You may not like the way this hypothetical man went about it or that the women in this scenario agreed to it in whatever way they did but that doesn't mean that these people don't go home to their kids and are loving and present.

Quote:


> And if someone wants to start talking population control, they need to start with the people who are failing as parents.


And who is to say what makes a "failing" parent? Child abusers, sure. Neglect, okay that makes sense. Not vaccinating? Well there are plenty out there who view that as neglect. Spanking? There are plenty who view that as abuse. Who is to decide who is worthy of children and who isn't? And let's remember that when we talk "population control" it's not the parents who pay but the children. What you're saying isn't let's punish the parents because that wouldn't control the population what you are suggesting, whether you mean to or not and I definitely don't think you mean to, is that we should do away with their children. I can't imagine looking at the child of an abusive parent and thinking "there's a kid this world doesn't need."


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## LessTraveledBy (Feb 9, 2005)

But this, below, is NOT what she said... She did not say a teen mom is a bad mom, a mom without a high school diploma is a bad mom, etc. She said if a person can be described by stating ALL those things... So, if someone is a teen mom AND does not have a high school diploma AND has 3 kids, all having different dads. A person who can be described by all three can be a good mom. Statistically, though, I don't think the chances are too great. No one can say that she is a bad person. I would dare guess, though, that a teen finding herself in those circumstance has been through a lot even before any of that, and needs lots of helps, mental, physical, financial.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *holyhelianthus*





> Basically what you are saying is a teen mom is automatically a bad mom and a mom who has children by different fathers is the same. You even go as far as to say they aren't deserving of children. Oh and the whole graduating from high school thing because apparently having a high school diploma helps one to be a good parent. Wowza. This makes me wonder who is deserving of children then. What are the qualifications?


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## baconpuppet (Mar 6, 2011)

So, Lisa1970, you do realize that you and your "crunchy" friends would be among the first to be sterilized/castrated/neutered, correct? Since non-vax is considered medical neglect, and unschooling is educational neglect. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

I got in a fight when I was 18, so I'm a convicted felon. I guess I should give my kids away quickly! I've poured my heart and soul into raising them in a loving home and met all their needs, but I guess that rap sheet proves I must be unworthy.


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## Mosaic (Jun 20, 2005)

Attempting to get this thread back on track... My recommended response to questions or comments of this sort is as follows:

I feel no compulsion to judge your family plans nor justify my own.


----------



## DragonflyBlue (Oct 21, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife*
> 
> What if there was a law against allowing extremely judgmental people to procreate? That should lighten the load a bit.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Stifling a giggle here because the kids are all still asleep! I'm sure that would definitely cull the breeding herd immensely!

I have a large family. Eight children, 5 girls, 3 boys. FYI Lisa- they all have the same dad, neither of us of had a felony conviction and we meet all your other criteria for breeding. *Whew* So glad we are free of your judgement here!

As to the op, we've had many, many comments made to us over the years. Sometimes I just give a WTF look, sometimes I come back with a witty retort but mostly I just say "I'm so glad I was raised to know the difference between polite conversation and rude. I'm sorry your parents didn't give you that valuable lesson."


----------



## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mosaic*
> 
> Attempting to get this thread back on track... My recommended response to questions or comments of this sort is as follows:
> 
> I feel no compulsion to judge your family plans nor justify my own.


People are relentless though. Or maybe it's just my grandma.







Sometimes you need a smart ass answer to shut things down.









And I find the idea of picking and choosing who can reproduce morally repugnant.


----------



## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
> 
> And I find the idea of picking and choosing who can reproduce morally repugnant.


me too!!!

I also find the idea of making judgments about people based on the number of children they have repugnant. To me it's the same thing if someone is judging because another person has too many kids, or if they turn it around and judge that some one has too few kids.

Some of the things said on this thread about my family values based on the fact that we made a decision to stop at 2 kids are really, deeply offensive. I had the number of kids that felt right to me. It doesn't say anything about me as a person, a mother, or an environmentalist that it was a different number than some else.

And far as not letting *bad* people have kids (however you define it) I wouldn't be here. My father is a *bad* person by pretty much any definition. I'm glad I'm here, though.


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## kama'aina mama (Nov 19, 2001)

Regarding the original question... there really is no appropriate reply to such an inappropriate comment. When people make overly personal remarks to me I take a page from Miss Manners and simply stare at them, very calmly, without speaking. Usually they replay what they just said in the minds and get very flustered.

Basically there is nothing you can say that will change their thoughts on the matter. All you can hope to do is show them that they really ought to keep thoughts like that to themselves.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

I found it helpful to train my oldest DD to make the smartass answer. So that every time we were out in public, and somebody made the "wow, you sure have your hands full" comment, or ask me if they were all mine in that not-nice way, DD would turn to me and say, loudly, "why do people always say that, mama? It's a dumb thing to say." From the mouth of a two year old, it's not snark. It's unvarnished truth.

And yeah, we've only got three kids. But somehow seeing a mama with three kids under three turned people's dumb-comment machines on full blast. And twins seem to exaggerate that effect. Luckily, once they can run around, people seem to notice less that they're all so close in age. So it's eased up a lot. I don't mind friendly comments, but some people are just plain rude.

Twin mamas get questions about whether their twins were conceived naturally or not. DD knows how to say, "actually, we we got them through the mail."


----------



## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Llyra*
> 
> I found it helpful to train my oldest DD to make the smartass answer. So that every time we were out in public, and somebody made the "wow, you sure have your hands full" comment, or ask me if they were all mine in that not-nice way, DD would turn to me and say, loudly, "why do people always say that, mama? It's a dumb thing to say." From the mouth of a two year old, it's not snark. It's unvarnished truth.
> 
> ...










I love the way you think.

And the twin questions-- ugh. I have a whole lot of smartypants answers for those.
"Are they natural?" "Well, they're not robots."
"Are they identical?" "Yes, her penis looks just like his."


----------



## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mosaic*
> 
> Attempting to get this thread back on track... My recommended response to questions or comments of this sort is as follows:
> 
> I feel no compulsion to judge your family plans nor justify my own.


Ohhh, I like that one! Tucking it away for use.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Llyra*
> Twin mamas get questions about whether their twins were conceived naturally or not. DD knows how to say, "actually, we we got them through the mail."


*snort* Your DD is pretty awesome.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...












We get "are they really twins?" and then suspicious looks because one is very fair skinned with blond hair and blue eyes and the other is darker in complexion. And a lot of the time they don't believe us like we're going to lie about it. But I always love the whole "are they identical?". Urm, do they look identical? I really don't think people know what identical means.


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## KempsMama (Dec 1, 2008)

Several families at my church are larger than normal. One of them told me that she often asks the rude stranger "Which one should I give away?" and that usually shuts them up.

On a side note, the larger families I know are some of the best stewards of the earth I know. I could make a lot of generalized statements as to why I think that is, but I would offend someone, somewhere.


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## Jynuine (Jan 9, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KempsMama*
> 
> I could make a lot of generalized statements as to why I think that is, but I would offend someone, somewhere.


Hahaha! Don't you know it, lol!


----------



## MOMYS (Nov 5, 2008)

I am very careful how I respond. i'm pregnant with number 8 and i find a lot of the comments tiresome and annoying, but I don't think they are being said in a spirit of meanness. I think people don't actually know how to react and they obviously notice us 

there are a couple of categories of questions and my answer depends on where I think the question falls within those:

1. The "pack"... you know those 2 BFF or 3 or however many corner you in the store. And actually they are asking you questions and kind of egging each other on. Often this turns to meanness quickly if it didn't start out that way.

My answers are basically just: "Yes, we are very blessed. They are great kids. I enjoy them very much. Yes, we're very busy, but we love it." etc etc. etc. Everything is very neutral and given with a big smile, but I'm not giving them any "fodder".

In this category are also those people who are just plain mean: The ones who attack you about your affect on the environment etc. without knowing anything about your family, etc.

I usually just smile, say something nice and move on.

2. The Family/Friends who think they have a right to say something. Usually they actually comment out of concern for you.

"Thank you for your concern. We are comfortable with our decisions. How was your holiday?"

I acknowledge their concern. Tell them it is fine and then pass the bean dip. Wash, rinse, repeat 

3. Men (and sometimes women) who make totally inappropriate comments.

"Yup, we know what causes it, and we like it!'

Or something along those lines. Big smiles and move on.

4. That single stranger who says something and it is kind of a "if I had a $1 for everytime someone said something like that I could send all my kids to college tomorrow" moment:

"Yes, we are very blessed!"

How do you cope? I can't even cope with the 2 I have

"Lots of times on my knees (if you're a Christian) and it does get easier!"

Well, my gran told me that it gets easier because the older ones basically raise the younger ones.

"Well, I appreciate the help of my older children, but I guard against turning them into mini-parents or giving them too much responsibility"

how can you possibly afford them?

"Wow! I'm not used to people asking about something as private as our finances, but we budget carefully" (the rebuke for interfering in our business is there, but not rude)

You should have a TV programme like the Duggars

"Oh no! Please not! We're way too normal" Big laugh

I really try not to be mean or sarcastic. When I had 2 children, I met this family with 12 kids. Their eldest daughter had 5 kids. I remember going to them and saying:

"Wow, you have 12 and 5 kids!" I was flabbergasted. They were so sweet and did the while: "Yes, we're so blessed" thing.

Years later as I look back on that moment and I'm grateful for their kindness towards me and my total ignorance.

I must admit that the comments/attitude of people bothered me way more when I had 4 or 5 kids than it does now.

As for the poster who thinks that we needs a procreation police that makes sure all prospective parents fit the criteria: Um, nope, I don't think so.    It is kind of preposterous to me that someone would fail to see the danger in allowing something like this that would endanger the freedom of all! I'm also not huge on building a "super race", it smacks too much of some people in history.


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## Jynuine (Jan 9, 2011)

A similar thing happened to us yesterday at the mall (although, to be honest I don't teach my kids to purposefully say mean spirited things) where an elderly lady commented on the fact I was expecting my 7th and she said, "Wow your hands are full!"

She was holding a few shopping bags and a purse and my five year old busted out, "You have YOUR hands full!!!" LOL! And we all chuckled... well, she DID!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Llyra*
> 
> I found it helpful to train my oldest DD to make the smartass answer. So that every time we were out in public, and somebody made the "wow, you sure have your hands full" comment, or ask me if they were all mine in that not-nice way, DD would turn to me and say, loudly, "why do people always say that, mama? It's a dumb thing to say." From the mouth of a two year old, it's not snark. It's unvarnished truth.


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## Lakeeffectsnow (Jan 12, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> But children are not property. I would rather see 2 good parents have a lot of children, than bad parents have any number of children. The way this conversation is being done, it makes it sound like it is all about quantity, not quality. If nothing else is apparent on Mothering, most of us here are all about our children and love them and are really in to them. Then there is a whole world of parents who abuse them, neglect them, etc. So any argument about number of children is nonsense. I think that all convicted felons should be neutered. Frankly, I think no one should ever be allowed to have children by more than 2 people, unless there were deaths. (as in, the reason they are not with the original partner is they lost them). I think people who proven to be failures of parents should be neutered too. If none of the bad parents had children, then the rest of us would need to have a lot of children to make up for it. And try to remember, the natural increase in the USA is negative. This means, we are not replacing ourselves. For every person who dies here, there is not even 1 baby being born. Due to illegal immigration, our population still rises. As a tax payer, I do not feel obligated to have no more children to make room for people who illegally sneak in to this country and collect welfare. Why should I have to have no more children to make room for theirs?
> 
> So I think we need to stop talking about children like they are property and in terms of numbers each person is entitled to and start talking about them like real human beings and let the good parents have all the children they want and leave those parents alone. And the next man who is in the news bragging about having 17 children by 13 women, we can chop is penis off. And frankly, every single woman who had a child with him should probably be neutered too.


Wow, that sounds a lot like eugenics to me. Hopefully, that wasn't what you meant. There are people who believe my oldest daughter shouldn't have been born because she is biracial and that is what I get when I read your post.

I might want to mention my parents are immigrants, legal immigrants, my dad served the in the US army in Korea and Vietnam, am I somehow genetically inferior to you because my parents are immigrants? I have children by my ex and my husband and my husband has a child with his ex wife and children with me. What if one of us had been married twice before? Are you saying my kids shouldn't allowed to exist?

What is the qualifier of being a good parent? Who decides? What if the person deciding doesn't like your politics, religion, or race? Oh, wait weren't those people members of the Nazi party?


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## KristyDi (Jun 5, 2007)

The idea that we should give anyone the power to force sterilization on anyone terrifies and disgusts me. After all, once we make sure all the "undesirable" people like felons and those promiscuous enough to have had kids with more that the officially acceptable number of partners can never reproduce by forcing them to undergo a medical procedure whether they want it or not we can move on to making sure that those who are "too poor" or refuse to conform to the correct government approved child-rearing methods and practices can't reproduce either. I mean that's kinder than letting them have the kids then taking them away right, cheaper too. I guess we'll all need to be pre-approved before we get to child bearing age then re-assessed every few years to be sure we don't need to be sterilized.

Oh and since it's ok to force medical procedures on the un-willing we can require circumcisions for all infant boys to prevent AIDS and require women who don't meet a specific set of guidelines to have c-sections for the safety of their children. And of course we can require vaxing by whatever schedule the CDC mandates, all for the health and safety of the children of course.

No one should have that kind of power over anyone else.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> Frankly, I think no one should ever be allowed to have children by more than 2 people, unless there were deaths. (as in, the reason they are not with the original partner is they lost them).


See, that's why I stopped at two kids. They have different biological fathers, though they share the same legal father. Having a third child with my husband would obviously make me a bad parent. <tic>

Yeah, I've been married three times. I guess I'm "failure as a parent" material. Glad my kids don't think so.









Personally, I get tired of the judgement I get for having been divorced twice. It's just as annoying as the judgment you get for having lots of kids. People don't even care about the reasons, they just hear "married three times" and immediately form opinions.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> Frankly, I think no one should ever be allowed to have children by more than 2 people, unless there were deaths. (as in, the reason they are not with the original partner is they lost them).


So... Where does my family fall into this? Neither of my kids have the same biological parents. I have two kids by three different people (four if you count me).


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## Hykue (Sep 3, 2010)

So, I'm hoping I won't just make this thread veer off-topic or into what I consider to be offensive territory again . . . but I did want to comment just a bit more about the overpopulation/overconsumption thing.

I would never comment to a stranger about the family size that they have, or are planning to have, or really anything about it. That just seems incredibly nosy and rude to me. I recognize that family size is one of many personal decisions that each family gets to make for themselves. Just to be clear, I'm not about to start saying that anyone has the right to make those comments - I mean, I guess anyone can say whatever they want, but if it's rude then they should be prepared for a rude comeback!

At the same time, I don't feel that we can say that having more kids (in general) doesn't affect other people at all. It doesn't affect them directly, but there is some indirect effect. And the way that we work socially was largely developed when things like other people's family size really would have affected others directly. In the small communities that we mostly lived in for most of our time on earth, it DID make a difference to other people how many kids we had. But even ignoring that, there is still currently some indirect effect. This is because it is neither a high population by itself or high consumption by itself that causes our cumulative effect on the world. It is the product of the two. If we had a very low population, and each person had very high consumption, it would take a very long time to run out of (say) oil. If we had a huge population with a very low consumption rate per capita, it would still take a very long time to run out of oil. Currently what we have is mostly a few places with medium populations and high consumption, and a lot of places with high populations and medium to low consumption. The overall effect is a fairly large impact on our world. There is more than one possible solution to this problem, and some combination of solutions will have some beneficial effect. One solution, which some people choose, is to have fewer to no children. If they have made this choice, it is because they think it is the best choice, and they might not understand why someone else chose differently. We're not, as a species, fantastic at tolerating different choices from our own. Another solution is to be very mindful of your consumption, and try to reduce it as much as is possible, while having a large family. This is the best choice for others. It's not always obvious to strangers when you have made this choice, as they probably have no way of knowing how mindfully, waste-free, and lovingly you raise your children to be good people and stewards of the earth. Another solution is to have a moderate-sized family and make moderate decreases in your consumption level. Honestly, this seems to be the one least likely to draw comments, although I personally find that odd. It's a perfectly good choice, too, but I don't understand why it wouldn't draw comments. I guess because people notice "extremes" more than they notice moderation. And they comment on it - one of my friends once had someone scream at him from a passing car "Hey, you have blue hair!" It cracked us all up.

So, it's none of my business how many kids you have, and although I hope people are mindful of their consumption, I don't feel like I have any right to push that mindfulness on them (especially if I don't know them). But I'm a bit of a hermit. Maybe if I was more gregarious, I would feel I had an obligation to make sure people were thinking about these things, because I do feel like we (as a species) have an obligation to use the capacity to consider the consequences of our actions. But if you consider the consequences of having many children, or few, or high consumption, or low consumption, and make ANY decision after having considered, then I think you've done a good job. I'm not sure everyone feels that way, though. And, even if you don't meet my criteria of considering before deciding, well, that doesn't mean you're a bad person or shouldn't be allowed to have kids or anything like that at all, it just means that I don't agree with your decision-making process . . . and that's something I might try to talk people into - thought before action, is all.

Clarity disclaimer - I'm not trying to say anything at all about people here, just trying to illuminate a thought pattern that could lead to such comments, if the speaker had a very different rudeness filter than I do. I'm pretty sure all of you did think before you decided to have large families, and a few people have mentioned that they are mindful of their consumption. But others don't know that about you, right, just to see you walking down the street?


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## 4myfinn (Dec 29, 2009)

I haven't read all the posts, but I kind of approach this from the perspective of the child. I grew up the 5th of 6th children, and sometimes I just feel bad for the kids when I see big families. My parents were both well-educated, we lived in a big house in a great upper middle-class neighborhood. We didn't materially want for much. All I wanted was more time and more love- especially from my mom. She just didn't have enough time for us all. How could she with so many? However, I LOVE my siblings. We are all very close- best friends, in fact. My brothers and sisters were ALWAYS there for me when my parents couldn't be.

I don't mean to offend anyone by writing this. I'm sure there are big families out there that don't operate like my parents did. I also would NEVER tell someone else not to have any more kids. I just wanted to give my 2 cents.


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## Jynuine (Jan 9, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hykue*
> 
> I'm pretty sure all of you did think before you decided to have large families, and a few people have mentioned that they are mindful of their consumption.


To be honest, I have to say that having a large family FORCES you to be mindful of your consumption. I find that a lot of people I know with less kids or none are MUCH more wasteful than we are. You just cant afford to be wasteful when you are on a budget and you have a lot to manage. You tend to garden, you recycle, you clip coupons, you make your own food- make your own clothes, reuse, recycle, you penny pintch... this is VERY VERY renown within large family circles.

I think that assuming that someone having a large family means they are going to overeat, overuse and just be wasteful is backward wrong. Large families= frugality.

Im actually sort of surprised... this is the first I've EVER heard of anyone worrying about a large family overconsuming... :/

Even on our vehicle... expecting our 7th, my husband is purchasing a fabricated seat insert for our front row of our... GAS GUZZLING VAN? Nope. Our 94' Landcruiser. We can fit 8 people in it at the moment, but it will be 9 in May. He's even considering converting the very back seats to side sitting (against the windows, it's a conversion) so that we can fit another child in back if need be, sitting 10, before we upgrade to a 12 passenger van.


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Those kinds of comments make me want more kids. I was so aggravated when my MIL would make comments about the thought of us having more kids that I'd tell my husband I wanted more kids. At 4, we're done, but she doesn't know that my husband had the V, so I still get to tease her with "With the next baby..." I have a friend with 6 and I"m pretty sure she'll have more. She's amazing and organized and involved...everything a mom of 1 aspires to be. She could handle 10, I'm sure. She gets up and has pies and bread made before her kids wake up and she reads historical non-fiction for fun...and sews all of her own cloth diapers. I'm not anywhere near that and I "just" have 4, truth is, I wasn't that with one. I've also been the idiot saying "you've got your hands full." Who knows why we say stupid stuff sometimes.


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## Tobeborn (May 19, 2005)

As the 2nd of 6, I feel very similar to what you're describing. There are some other issues that made it difficult for my parents to connect with all of us, but for me, I never felt like I got what I needed from them. Everything was always crazy and busy and stressful, there was no one on one time, it had to be scheduled if needed. I can remember being at my hs boyfriend's house with his family, two kids and mom and dad and it was so relaxing and they had these great conversations, there was always time to sit and talk and get to know their kids. I knew that's what I wanted for my own family someday. I now have my two, and we're done. I am at the limit, and sometimes I feel beyond it, for having enough time and energy to devote to them, to get to know them and to really be with them. I also think it is good to approach this with a child's perspective. Some people end up loving their big families, and some people, like me, feel lost in a big family.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4myfinn*
> 
> I haven't read all the posts, but I kind of approach this from the perspective of the child. I grew up the 5th of 6th children, and sometimes I just feel bad for the kids when I see big families. My parents were both well-educated, we lived in a big house in a great upper middle-class neighborhood. We didn't materially want for much. All I wanted was more time and more love- especially from my mom. She just didn't have enough time for us all. How could she with so many? However, I LOVE my siblings. We are all very close- best friends, in fact. My brothers and sisters were ALWAYS there for me when my parents couldn't be.
> 
> I don't mean to offend anyone by writing this. I'm sure there are big families out there that don't operate like my parents did. I also would NEVER tell someone else not to have any more kids. I just wanted to give my 2 cents.


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jynuine*
> 
> Even on our vehicle... expecting our 7th, my husband is purchasing a fabricated seat insert for our front row of our... GAS GUZZLING VAN? Nope. *Our 94' Landcruiser*. We can fit 8 people in it at the moment, but it will be 9 in May. He's even considering converting the very back seats to side sitting (against the windows, it's a conversion) so that we can fit another child in back if need be, sitting 10, before we upgrade to a 12 passenger van.


wait, an older landcruiser that isn't gas guzzling? the one i drove got about 14 miles to the gallon if i was lucky, more often it was between 10 and 12. our older minivan is WAY more efficient than the land cruiser.

have you done anything to it to increase fuel efficiency? i'm curious because i frreakin' loved that car but i couldn't handle the gas bill.


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> They were generalization words. And I do not think that bad checks are generally a felony, unless maybe you wrote out stolen checks. What I meant is...things like murderers and rapists and drunk drivers. Heck, as long as we are on that..we could expand it even more...but the whole point is..it is not about quantity, it is about quality. Why should a good family not have more children while some guy who knocks off grocery stores or kills children in drunk driver incidents, or has had their children taken away by CPS (understanding that not 100% of the cases are truly founded, but I am talking the founded cases) still have children? Or women. It is not just men that are failing as parents, it is the women too. Or the person who has 3 children by 3 different men by the time they turn 18 and not graduate high school? Why would they be "entitled" to the same number of children as the family who cares for their children, raise their children, love their children, provide for them, etc? Because it is not about quantity....it is about quality. There are too many people having children that don't have much interest in raising them properly. Those are the ones who should not be having more. Any man who brags to the news about 17 kids by 13 women should have been castrated before he moved on to the 3rd woman. And that 3rd woman, who chose to have a baby with him, it never should have happened. She too should have no more, as well as the 4th and 5th..but if he had been castrated..those women would not have gotten pregnant by him.


You should read a biography of Ludwig Van Beethoven. I believe he was the youngest son of a prostitute who died of syphilis and a drunken abusive father, who beat him to the point of losing his hearing. However his contribution to classical music is unimaginably significant. If you want to help people be better at life (ie empower them to not be criminals through opportunity or education) fine, but taking away their right to procreate won't help the situation. Poverty is not overcome by eliminating poor people.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4myfinn*
> 
> I haven't read all the posts, but I kind of approach this from the perspective of the child. I grew up the 5th of 6th children, and sometimes I just feel bad for the kids when I see big families. My parents were both well-educated, we lived in a big house in a great upper middle-class neighborhood. We didn't materially want for much. All I wanted was more time and more love- especially from my mom. She just didn't have enough time for us all. How could she with so many? However, I LOVE my siblings. We are all very close- best friends, in fact. My brothers and sisters were ALWAYS there for me when my parents couldn't be.
> 
> I don't mean to offend anyone by writing this. I'm sure there are big families out there that don't operate like my parents did. I also would NEVER tell someone else not to have any more kids. I just wanted to give my 2 cents.


FWIW, I grew up as an only child and didn't get much attention from my parents, either. And I didn't have the nice house, great neighborhood, or siblings to comfort me. I suppose that's a huge part of why I dropped out of university at 18, got married, and moved a couple of thousand miles away from home.







There wasn't really much to keep me there.

Obviously, time will have to be rationed to a degree when there are a lot of kids to care for, but that doesn't necessarily mean you would have had a better connection to your parents if you'd had fewer siblings. Correlation doesn't equal causation, and all that jazz.....


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## scottishmommy (Nov 30, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4myfinn*
> 
> I haven't read all the posts, but I kind of approach this from the perspective of the child. I grew up the 5th of 6th children, and sometimes I just feel bad for the kids when I see big families. My parents were both well-educated, we lived in a big house in a great upper middle-class neighborhood. We didn't materially want for much. All I wanted was more time and more love- especially from my mom. She just didn't have enough time for us all. How could she with so many? However, I LOVE my siblings. We are all very close- best friends, in fact. My brothers and sisters were ALWAYS there for me when my parents couldn't be.
> 
> I don't mean to offend anyone by writing this. I'm sure there are big families out there that don't operate like my parents did. I also would NEVER tell someone else not to have any more kids. I just wanted to give my 2 cents.


Honeslty, a lot of people from small families feel like their parents put too much pressure on them and hover excessively. We parents just can't win!


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## CatsCradle (May 7, 2007)

"Honeslty, a lot of people from small families feel like their parents put too much pressure on them and hover excessively. We parents just can't win!"

Which goes to show, it is not about family size, it is about parenting!


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## lilacvioletiris (Apr 3, 2011)

I am the oldest daughter of 7 children. My mom got this comment every now and then. I think people just don't think before the speak about a topic that is truly none of their business. I was 15 when my baby brother was born. I remember someone saying to me, "Wow, aren't you a little young to have kids?" My response, "No, this is my brother and that is my mom". She was 35 when she had her last child. I will be at least 35 when I have my first.

"We count our blessing everyday!" was often how my mom would respond if the comment was pointed at her.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

I'm late to the party...

After I had my second, and had a boy and a girl, I would get, "Now you have your girl AND your boy."

I would reply, "No, now I have my boy ROOM and my girl ROOM. We're just going to keep piling them in now."

The person would say, "Really?!?! How many do you want?"

Then I would just say we were trusting God with our family, but I really hoped 12. There's not much more for them to say at that point.

But, now that we have 4, and dh is home more and helps more out in public, even HE is getting the comments. It's a fairly new occurance to him, but I'm a little concerned he's going to hit somebody....he doesn't take rudeness well. There was a lady at a playplace who kept going on and on about how we had to keep trying until we got a perfect one. See, she showed her friend, how perfect this little baby was. Just so beautiful. Well, just had to keep going to get a perfect one.

Uhm, like my others are junk? He was so mad. I was impressed. He didn't say anything.

I read on here once in another thread like this a mama always said, "Better full than empty" to the full hands comment. I use that now, too, and it works really well.

I just feel bad for my kids, though. It's like they are constantly a freak show.


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## LessTraveledBy (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Just1More* There was a lady at a playplace who kept going on and on about how we had to keep trying until we got a perfect one. See, she showed her friend, how perfect this little baby was. Just so beautiful. Well, just had to keep going to get a perfect one.


I suppose she just wanted to somehow emphasize how amazing she thought your baby was but, honestly, that must be one of the strangest comments I have ever heard!


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Just1More*
> 
> After I had my second, and had a boy and a girl, I would get, "Now you have your girl AND your boy."
> 
> I would reply, "No, now I have my boy ROOM and my girl ROOM. We're just going to keep piling them in now."










That's great!

My DH gets crap, too. Unfortunately for him he looks younger than he is which is only 25 as it is so whenever he is out with the kids he gets stares and "are they yours?" all of the time. Usually if we are out together to get the job done faster he goes off with 2 or 3 and I go off with the other 2 or 3. It never fails that even just with 2 someone asks if they are all his. He replies "Yes, and I have 3 more floating around here somewhere."

I do have to say that thanks to this thread I actually had a dream that some random guy I was talking to asked if my kids were all from the same father.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Quote:


> *There are some other issues that made it difficult for my parents to connect with all of us,* but for me, I never felt like I got what I needed from them. Everything was always crazy and busy and stressful, there was no one on one time, it had to be scheduled if needed. I can remember being at my hs boyfriend's house with his family, two kids and mom and dad and it was so relaxing and they had these great conversations, there was always time to sit and talk and get to know their kids


See, to me the bolded is the important part. Are you *sure* it was about family size?

My parents had 4. Although both worked, we remained a very connected family. We did not do "crazy busy", though in the teen years we had the choice to do activities--some of us did, some of us didn't. Having that many kids did not preclude having awesome conversations, nor having one on one time. When we lived at my parents recently, there were 2 of us siblings at home semi-permanently, and 4 grandkids, and it was *fabulous*. My parents are family focused, and perceptive about relational needs, and nobody was lacking.

Meanwhile I know people who have the same feelings about their upbringing as you do, and were an only or one of two or three.

It's all about family dynamics, not family size.


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## Tobeborn (May 19, 2005)

Of course I'm not sure, but it definitely didn't help things. There's no way to know how things would have been if they had stopped at three, or not had twins or whatever. I just know that I always felt that they thought it was more important that they let god decide how many kids they had, instead of considering the needs of the kids they already had. They were not equipped to meet the needs of 6 kids, but since they thought family planning was out of their hands and in god's hands, that's how many they had. I think it's important to find out what limits we have when having a family, how much we can give each child, not just material things, but the emotional support and love and time, those are so important.


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## Greenlea (Apr 21, 2010)

I have a new one that happened to me yesterday.

I asked about mama's who had double strollers on FB and some recommendations. My Dad's friend said "at the rate you're going, you should get the train from adventureland." Um, well I only have two kids, I think that's hardly enough to fill a whole train.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

A man stopped dh and I yesteday to ask if we were Irish Catholic. I said, "No, we're not Irish Catholic, Pentecostal Holiness, or Morman, and yes, they're all ours." It doesn't sound as funny now, but it really was in person...even the guy laughed.


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## LessTraveledBy (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenlea*
> 
> I asked about mama's who had double strollers on FB and some recommendations. My Dad's friend said "at the rate you're going, you should get the train from adventureland." Um, well I only have two kids, I think that's hardly enough to fill a whole train.


That is just really strange! Could he have forgotten that you have only two kids or something?


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## Greenlea (Apr 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LessTraveledBy*
> 
> That is just really strange! Could he have forgotten that you have only two kids or something?


The only thing I could think of was that it was maybe because they are only 19 mths apart? But his daughter's kids are even closer together than mine.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenlea*
> 
> The only thing I could think of was that it was maybe because they are only 19 mths apart? *But his daughter's kids are even closer together than mine.*


I find that so funny about people- when it's their own it's perfectly fine. A woman was telling me about her daughter having her 10th and was just beaming with joy. Then I told her I was pregnant with my third and she was like "you know how that happens, right? Are you going to be done after this one?"


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## minnowmomma (Oct 7, 2003)

I don't know if i could continue speaking to her after a comment like that about #5.You must be a better woman than me.My mom doesn't want me to have anymore either(i have 2) ,bot is she gonna be surprised when i get pg later this year!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anglyn*
> 
> This is my mom. She's been brow beating me since baby number two not to have more. "Don't you know you have to support all these kids?" Really? Cuz no else is doing it! WTH? With my fourth she was so relieved that i had "just" done a home test and "you dont really know, theres still a chance" with number five, I kid you not, she said to me, (in a tone implying how unreasonable I am) "so I don't suppose you've considered anything other than keeping it?" Seriously.


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## kawa kamuri (Apr 19, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Just1More*
> 
> I read on here once in another thread like this a mama always said, "Better full than empty" to the full hands comment. I use that now, too, and it works really well.


Gorgeous


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## zuzunel09 (Mar 19, 2009)

This thread makes me so sad...people just don't love children like they used to. My own mother was not thrilled with our news of #2 and still shows almost zero interest in the pregnancy or baby stuff planning. People have made rude comments on both my fertility and also the fact that if I want any more I'd better get busy because I'm getting old (I'm 31). It makes me so...I don't know, depressed when the people around us that are supposed to be happy, just aren't, or their attitude toward children is informed by the world population and nothing else.

I will tell you, the most beautiful moments my husband and I have had in public with our son were #1, in an Ethiopian restaurant. The owner came out and gave our son a big kiss and whisked him away to meet all the staff and look around the restaurant. #2, in an Egyptian restaurant. The owner and his daughter kissed, teased, and played with our son the whole time we were there and weren't in the least distressed by the noise/mess. And they thought it was pretty awesome that I'm pregnant, too.


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## tonttu (Dec 24, 2010)

Ooooh , I love those comments , too .

I had three boys first and when our daughter was born people were like "great , now you can stop"









Like I only kept going , because I was desperate for a girl .

And now , that we are expecting number 6 , the comments are usually "Aren´t you gonna have to start countiong them ?Hehehehehe"

My DH and I just got to the point , when people make stupid comments or say stupid stuff , we say "we don´t have any other hobbies !"


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## insidevoice (Feb 16, 2011)

I'm dreading the comments. This will be #4 for us, andpeople (ESPECIALLY my parents were asking what we were doing for sterilization when we had the third.) However, they love the kids and I suspect they have softened- some, and seen that not only CAN it be done, it can be done well.

My kids have tons of one on one time and the family dynamic for us is better with two than it was with one, and better again with three instead of two. I'm looking forward to seeing how it is with four!

It's sometimes frustrating to hear comments, but when I see how happy our family is as a whole, it's easy to dismiss those comments as well.


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## KempsMama (Dec 1, 2008)

Regarding the ability to connect with each child on an individual basis, I spent several years in a foster/group home as a teen. My foster family had a teenage son, and a newborn baby, plus anywhere from 10 to 14 of us girls. They each took the time to spend with all of us, and I never remember a time when I felt neglected or alone. On the other had, when I lived with my mother and step father where it was just the three of us, I often felt alone and unsupported. So family size has nothing to do with it-it's all about how you parent.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I actually can't imagine my children allowing me to get away with not having one-on-one time with each of them. Not to minimize others' experiences, of course. My children all make sure they have their special moments with me and my husband. We try to be intentional about it as well.


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## Lisa1970 (Jan 18, 2009)

You really did not know they collect welfare? In Texas, where I live, 71% of the illegals are on welfare.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kama'aina mama*
> 
> Undocumented aliens cannot collect welfare. I can't imagine why you think they can.
> 
> I'm gonna try hard not to address your thoughts on eugenics, since I doubt anything I would say is permitted to be said here,, and I hate pulling a Godwin, even when it's called for.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> You really did not know they collect welfare? In Texas, where I live, 71% of the illegals are on welfare.


OK, if they are illegal, and this is a proven fact, and your source is reliable, then how can they still be on welfare? If the government finds out you are defrauding or manipulating them, they revoke your services, stat. I've had food stamps revoked for a month because I didn't update my paystubs on time. Of course anything can be faked, but then you wouldn't know they were undocumented, would they? So this makes no sense. Now, it's possible that there are minor children of undocumented immigrants who receive free school lunch, medicaid, maybe WIC and I suppose you could, by being very general, come up with such a number. But those programs are very different from cash welfare.

ALL of the immigrants I know earn their own money. And I have been married into a family full of them, and my DP now has family who is undocumented in the US and others who have already been deported. DP and I are the only ones in the family on food stamps and I assure you we are born and bred here. None of them get cash welfare, and all of them have jobs. Of course there is the scum of the earth in every population. There are undocumented drug dealers, prostitutes, panhandlers, etc. Crossing the border does not change a person, so if they sold drugs there, chances are great that they will do it here too. But it really gets my goat when people make these wild, all encompassing claims. Who in their right mind would pay thousands of dollars and risk life and limb to come to the US and collect $300 a month?


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## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> You really did not know they collect welfare? In Texas, where I live, 71% of the illegals are on welfare.


Illegal immigrants can collect welfare benefits on behalf of their American born children. Children who are as American as anyone else. Have we forgotten the whole "melting pot" thing? Also, illegal immigrants pay a lot of taxes that they can't claim. It balances out well enough. If you look at what's counted as welfare for immigrants, public schooling is on the list. Pretty much everyone would be on welfare using those standards.

I was on welfare when I had my first child and it really irks me to think that anyone would think he shouldn't be here. It's not an exclusive right of the rich to reproduce. We don't give IQ tests and do home-studies for intended (birth) parents. We don't look at their debt to income ratio. We don't know if their financial status is stable. It's very arrogant for one person to try to assess whether another person is worthy of parenthood. That's part of what is so aggravating about the "hands full" comments.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
> 
> I actually can't imagine my children allowing me to get away with not having one-on-one time with each of them. Not to minimize others' experiences, of course. My children all make sure they have their special moments with me and my husband. We try to be intentional about it as well.


OMGoodness, AM - your twins just keep getting cuter and cuter!! (I just noticed the new pic, and they are too cute!)


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## yummus (May 4, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chaoticzenmom*
> 
> Illegal immigrants can collect welfare benefits on behalf of their American born children. Children who are as American as anyone else. Have we forgotten the whole "melting pot" thing? Also, illegal immigrants pay a lot of taxes that they can't claim. It balances out well enough. If you look at what's counted as welfare for immigrants, public schooling is on the list. Pretty much everyone would be on welfare using those standards.
> 
> I was on welfare when I had my first child and it really irks me to think that anyone would think he shouldn't be here. It's not an exclusive right of the rich to reproduce. We don't give IQ tests and do home-studies for intended (birth) parents. We don't look at their debt to income ratio. We don't know if their financial status is stable. It's very arrogant for one person to try to assess whether another person is worthy of parenthood. That's part of what is so aggravating about the "hands full" comments.


Thanks lady. I was trying to figure out how to say, "So, because I am disabled, I shouldn't have kids?" type of thing... you did it for me!


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

> We don't give IQ tests and do home-studies for intended (birth) parents. We don't look at their debt to income ratio. We don't know if their financial status is stable.


And even with adoptive parents who fit the "good parent" criteria, their status can change. There are no guarantees, that's why none of these proposed "standards" of parenting would work anyway.

I have a cousin who was adopted at birth by my aunt and uncle.On paper they looked great. Married for ten years, both degreed, aunt was a tenured special ed teacher, owned their own home, grandma lived up the street. The birth mother was a college student and pastor's daughter.

Well, uncle was verbally and emotionally abusive to aunt and cousin. She left when he was 8-ish and they wound up in a shelter. To date he and his mother (he is 19) still share a one bedroom apt, he hasn't finished high school, is unemployed, can't drive, doesn't even have an ID, and has no clue what he wants to do with his life. I simply can't figure out how placing him with these "competent" adoptive parents made his life better. My point being, that what it looks like today, is not necessarily how it's going to be tomorrow.


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## aurora_skys (Apr 1, 2008)

My 85 yr old granny often has negative comments about my family size and I only have two!

Today she was saying how wonderful my boys are and then turns to me and says, "You've made your point. You can stop now."

I am always so careful to be respectful to her (I love her tons) but wow it's hard to not chew someones head of for such presumptuous crap! I just smiled a little and said ,"I'm not making a point..." I wonder what she will say if we have the five that we hope to have!!!

And as far as assuming that people on welfare/govt aid are unsuited to be parents, well that attitude makes me so sad. My husband and I live off of unemployment right now and he has the wonderful opportunity the go to college full time and be a more present parent than he was when he worked 12 hour days... Just because you see me in the local wic office does not mean I'm some ignorant societal parasite who just pops out babies... Wealth does not = adept parenting and poverty certainly does not = neglectful parenting!


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## Greenlea (Apr 21, 2010)

Someone sent this joke to me in an email, but I thought it was fitting...

"A man boarded a plane with six kids.
After they got settled in their seats a woman sitting across the aisle from him leaned over to him and asked, "Are all of those kids yours?"
He replied, "No. I work for a condom company. These are customer complaints."


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

Apparently today at work DH's coworkers were talking about cellphone skins, you know those rubber cases you put on your phone? DH said he had one but didn't like it so he took it off. One of his coworkers remarked "We know you don't like rubbers. You have 5 kids."


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Comments like that make me stabby.

On the up side, Daniel (or as we like to call him, Number 4) just looked at me and said "Mama, thank you for having our babies. I love our babies." So I guess the people who really matter in this equation are all OK with it.


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## Smokering (Sep 5, 2007)

Quote:


> Today she was saying how wonderful my boys are and then turns to me and says, "You've made your point. You can stop now."


What point exactly did she think you were trying to make? "My uterus works fine"? Bizarre.

Quote:


> On the up side, Daniel (or as we like to call him, Number 4) just looked at me and said "Mama, thank you for having our babies. I love our babies." So I guess the people who really matter in this equation are all OK with it.


In my experience, kids in big families are nearly always tickled pink when their mother has another baby. The one exception I can think of was a semi-abusive blended-family relationship, in which the older girl had to do far more than her fair share of childcare of the younger kids. One family in our church just had baby number 6, and despite the fact that the pregnancy was ROUGH on the family (the mother spent about 7 months horizontal, throwing up and fainting), and that the baby was yet another boy when they were kinda hoping for a girl, the kids were all so thrilled with the new baby. It was nice.  We always thought it was very exciting when Mum had another baby, too...


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## minnowmomma (Oct 7, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
> 
> Comments like that make me stabby.
> 
> On the up side, Daniel (or as we like to call him, Number 4) just looked at me and said "Mama, thank you for having our babies. I love our babies." So I guess the people who really matter in this equation are all OK with it.


That has got to be the sweetest thing i ever heard! I wouldn't have been able to keep from planting kisses all over his face.


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## Greenlea (Apr 21, 2010)

I was at my Grandmother's home last week and I had my two boys there. They were great, very well behaved, loveable little boys. She said to me "I think you have more than you can handle." I thought I was doing a pretty good job...


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## tonttu (Dec 24, 2010)

Well , I have a beautiful little anecdote about my older daughter , aged 7(number 4) . She was holding her little sister ( 11 months old ) and said "I don´t know , how we managed without her before she was born , our life was sooo BORING"









Ooooh , I could have smushed her for that , sooo cute !!!


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## Shenjall (Sep 14, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> I get the opposite. My mother thinks it is ok to have multiple children..but only if it is by different people. She thinks no one should have more than one. Except anyone who has not had a child with their current partner. So SIL married my brother and had 4 children by 3 different men. But my mother is all upset that she did not also have one with my brother. So 5 children by 4 men if she did? Yet, my mother is upset that I have had 5 children by the same man. I have two cousins that married people that already had children. In both cases, they went on and had a child with that spouse. My mother also found that acceptable because "they have a right to have a child together." So I guess the key was that if I left my husband and had the 5 children by 5 different men, my mother would have been ok with it.


In the words of Minion from Despicable Me..... "Whaaaaaaat?!?!".....


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

okay...ready? everyone will hate what I have to say. There are not many people who can take care of even ONE child. People have them, pour water on them occasionally, then do it again, and again. If you really can handle having child after child after child, and believe that they will grow up happy, get a great education and find career and partner that will make them happy go ahead. If you have child after child because you believe they will help the "world become a better place", great. But please people, don't be naive about the state of the world. It's pretty damn awful and having children means a lot more than having cute people to look over for about 18 years. I feel that we are all responsible for each other, it SHOULD be uncool to keep popping out kids without serious critical thinking. I could go deeper but feel I've said my peace


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

Quote


> And as far as assuming that people on welfare/govt aid are unsuited to be parents, well that attitude makes me so sad. My husband and I live off of unemployment right now and he has the wonderful opportunity the go to college full time and be a more present parent than he was when he worked 12 hour days... Just because you see me in the local wic office does not mean I'm some ignorant societal parasite who just pops out babies... Wealth does not = adept parenting and poverty certainly does not = neglectful parenting!


perhaps not, but having money make life easier for everyone, and a lot of poor people are uneducated about making the best choices for their children. Wealth does give opportunities that everyone could benefit off of


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hippiemom85*
> 
> okay...ready? everyone will hate what I have to say. There are not many people who can take care of even ONE child. People have them, pour water on them occasionally, then do it again, and again. If you really can handle having child after child after child, and believe that they will grow up happy, get a great education and find career and partner that will make them happy go ahead. If you have child after child because you believe they will help the "world become a better place", great. But please people, don't be naive about the state of the world. It's pretty damn awful and having children means a lot more than having cute people to look over for about 18 years. I feel that we are all responsible for each other, it SHOULD be uncool to keep popping out kids without serious critical thinking. I could go deeper but feel I've said my peace


Speak for yourself. I happen to be a fabulous mother and every kid I have popped out does make this already great world an even better place. I feel really sorry for you if this is your view of the world and children in general, and your own child(ren) in particular Luckily, we don't all have to abide by your rues for who can and cannot procreate.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hippiemom85*
> 
> okay...ready? everyone will hate what I have to say. There are not many people who can take care of even ONE child. People have them, pour water on them occasionally, then do it again, and again. If you really can handle having child after child after child, and believe that they will grow up happy, get a great education and find career and partner that will make them happy go ahead. If you have child after child because you believe they will help the "world become a better place", great. But please people, don't be naive about the state of the world. It's pretty damn awful and having children means a lot more than having cute people to look over for about 18 years. I feel that we are all responsible for each other, it SHOULD be uncool to keep popping out kids without serious critical thinking. I could go deeper but feel I've said my peace


It would be great then, if you could outline your definition of critical thinking required to keep "popping out" kids. Then we could all go through the check-list to be sure we are childbearing correctly, according to your standards. And how many is too many? Shouldn't we all be thinking wisely before we even decide to bring just one baby into this awful world?


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Here's what I honestly don't understand-- if I were to walk up to someone at an abortion clinic and demand they have the baby, I would be pretty universally condemned, right? Or if I walked up to someone who only had one child or no children and demanded they get busy and start procreating, I would also be condemned? So what is it that makes it OK to tell people they shouldn't have babies? Maybe it's not a good analogy; I don't know. It just seems unspeakably rude and personal to me to butt into other people's family planning choices, let alone to assume said choices are made out of stupidity.


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## kawa kamuri (Apr 19, 2006)

I cannot stand when birth is summed up as "popping out" babies. That's so gross.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kawa kamuri*
> 
> I cannot stand when birth is summed up as "popping out" babies. That's so gross.


Me, either. Especially since all four of mine were born via c-section. No popping out a bunch of kids for me, I guess.


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## lunarlady (Jan 4, 2010)

Dang, If they just "popped out" I think I would have a few more. It is the nine months of throwing up, cramps, heartburn, hemorrhoids, mood swings, fatigue and sleepless nights, followed by hours of agony and weeks more of recovery. My last birth I had a severe PPH that almost killed me. Saying women are "popping out" babies is sort of like saying the US is "wrapping up" a war- far easier said than done.

I think if you have room in your heart to love them, money to feed and clothe them, and the firmness of character to shepherd them, then have all the kids you want. My only caveat is at some point too many babies really puts an unhealthy strain on a woman's body. That number varies by woman, but I wish families in those situations would consider adoption rather than putting mom's life at risk for one more biological child. We all know women who had one or more "whoops" babies, but I would hazard a guess that the majority of the women on MDC are unlikely to have a large family without planning for it to be that way.


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## member234098 (Aug 3, 2002)

.


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

I don't think it's a terrible thing to have someone on a discussion board with a different opinion. There are many people who are aware of a huge population problem on Earth, with facts to back up the concerns. There are some good documentaries available which summate what seems to be hippiemom's point. I don't see why it's cool for people to be jumping all over her for voicing her opinion.

ETA, population issues have little to do with what kind of parent a person is... based on the documented facts I've seen. No one is saying that a person is a terrible parent for having several kids. Well, maybe pp's in the past who have posted about high numbers of children in a family taking away from individual attention for the kids.


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## number572 (Aug 25, 2004)

Also, just thought of this... I think there's a difference between someone telling someone not to have more kids, with an inference that they aren't able to handle the ones they've got, so "please, stop having kids!" ...

and someone saying "hey, please consider the bigger population studies before having more kids"...

At least that's my take on this topic. I honestly think that someone talking about considering the current general population issues is not coming in with an offensive attitude, trying to infer that people are bad parents for having several kids.


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


if you are in fact a fabulous mother, then you are not the type of mother I was referring to, and obviously completely missed my point, unfortunately..


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kawa kamuri*
> 
> I cannot stand when birth is summed up as "popping out" babies. That's so gross.


I think it's unfortunate when people completely ignore the issue at hand due to discomfort with terminologies. Never mind the fact that it makes sense in certain contexts. Sorry to have grossed you out though


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *number572*
> 
> I don't think it's a terrible thing to have someone on a discussion board with a different opinion. There are many people who are aware of a huge population problem on Earth, with facts to back up the concerns. There are some good documentaries available which summate what seems to be hippiemom's point. I don't see why it's cool for people to be jumping all over her for voicing her opinion.
> 
> ETA, population issues have little to do with what kind of parent a person is... based on the documented facts I've seen. No one is saying that a person is a terrible parent for having several kids. Well, maybe pp's in the past who have posted about high numbers of children in a family taking away from individual attention for the kids.


thank you

HOWEVER i don't think there should be a difference of a opinion here, and frankly it scares me that people honestly believe that the choice to be a parent isn't one that requires much more than just "wanting more kids". It is incredibly hard to raise a child and amazing responsibilities that lasts forever. So because having a child is the most beautiful thing in the world to you, when someone reminds you that not everyone is up for the challenge or even wants to be, everyone becomes defensive. Naive is a word that comes to mind. I know of people who just do not like condoms and do not believe in abortion, therefore they have kid after kid, looked over slighly more than a house cat. So I hardly appologize if I worry about my son growing up in a world full of uncared for indivuals. I spent YEARS yearning to have my child, and gave it massive amounts of thought, and I'm sorry if I often wonder how someone can properly take care of 6 children


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife*
> 
> It would be great then, if you could outline your definition of critical thinking required to keep "popping out" kids. Then we could all go through the check-list to be sure we are childbearing correctly, according to your standards. And how many is too many? Shouldn't we all be thinking wisely before we even decide to bring just one baby into this awful world?


Not sure just how much of this was said in a sarcastic tone, but we should all be thinking wisely before bringing a baby into this awful world. That is my one point check list


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## gumblossom (Oct 23, 2009)

I hope that your comment:

Quote:


> and I'm sorry if I often wonder how someone can properly take care of 6 children


doesn't presume that all large families cannot properly care for their children? I am a mother of 5, and expecting another. Every one of my children were planned, they have been spaced out, and I believe are well-cared for, loved and happy. I suppose that depends on what you consider to be "proper" care? They don't get all the toys and material possessions that other kids get, but they don't complain too much about it. They live in the country, have loving parents, a decent education and feel secure and loved.

I see your point about children coming into the world (which I don't consider to be "awful") when they are unwanted and uncared for, however it isn't something that is limited to "large" families. There are many small families who may not be able to care for their children. It is unfair to say that children from large families are not planned, or cared for.

As for the world's population problem - yes - there is an issue, however I doubt that my large family will make much of an impact, particularly in a country (Australia) where we are struggling with zero population growth - like many Western countries. I'm not saying that is the case for the U.S., however I think population is an issue that is much much more complicated than just being a case of families in Western countries choosing to have large families. There is a an issue around massive consumption in Western countries, and education in third world countries.

I haven't read the entire thread, so forgive me if this has already been said.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hippiemom85*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Fair enough. Right now I'm wondering how your view of the world as awful and children as a drain on the awful world's resources translates into your mothering as well.









And to be fair, you wandered into a thread started by a mother of many asking for commiseration from other mothers of many, so it shouldn't come as a great shock when other mothers of many on the thread are upset by you comparing them to an animal popping out a litter.

You're also making an error in assuming everyone sees things the way you do. I don't share your view on overpopulation, I don't share your views on birth control, and I don't share your views on parenting. I can't imagine investing the incredible amount of energy you seem to be advocating, even if I only had one. My children are all well cared for, but I definitely not bringing them up like they're the most important things in the universe. I don't see my responsibilities as lasting "forever". I certainly hope to be raising self-sufficient children who will eventually make their own way in the world. The difference is, I am not using deliberately inflammatory language nor am I trying to convince you to have more children. I don't think I've heard any mothers on many on this thread put down women for not wanting to have more children or putting down women who don't feel "up to the challenge". I've heard lots of inflamatory language coming from the other side though, comparing us to breeding animals and advocating forced sterilization (upthread). So yes, that does make me a little defensive. Just because you think there shouldn't be a difference of opinion--something I find rather baffling by the way-- doesn't mean there isn't one.


----------



## kawa kamuri (Apr 19, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hippiemom85*
> I think it's unfortunate when people completely ignore the issue at hand due to discomfort with terminologies. Never mind the fact that it makes sense in certain contexts. Sorry to have grossed you out though


I ignored "the issue at hand" because I didn't consider it worth my time.


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gumblossom*
> 
> I hope that your comment:
> 
> ...


I guess I'm presuming purely based on my own experience with only ONE child and how incredibly hard it is. You sound like a very reasonable and wonderful person/parent, but curious to what you think it would be like if everyone believed that their own choice to have as many children as they feel would effect the world. Well you can see it already, we're up to 8 billion people, and that's including millions of children needing loving homes, poverty, starvation, and so on it goes.

I appreciate you're tone, thank you for not attacking me

I am curious, and you can disregard if you choose, why do you to want so many kids? is it religious? spiritual? happiness?


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Okay, I respect your position

Umm, okay, how do I rebuttal??

I definitely want to raise self- sufficient children but I don't think that my responsibilities to my children will ever end. I have two parents who conveniently felt that once I hit 18, I should have just figured it all out and support got cut off immediately the day I moved out. I don't want want to raise my kids having them believe that they are more important thing in the UNIVERSE, that would be an immense amount of pressure for them, I want to raise them knowing that the world does not only belong them and their time and effort are very valuable resources. In the past it made sense to just want to raise a family, now, we live in a different world and I think that some fixing need to get done before we can keep procreating. Obviously this is what I think.

I have my son, and perhaps one day I will have one more, I'm hoping to adopt. To me the decision to have a child is a purly selfish instinct, I'm not doing anyone a favor. And it kind of drives me a little crazy when I hear mothers that think they are doing part, just by having children. I saw a pregnancy t-shirt that said "I created life, what have YOU done lately", give me a break!

Forced sterilization is a little intense, I would not want to force someone into submission, Most time I actually appreciate different life styles even when I cant possibly agree with them.

I wandered into the thread, yes, I didn't realize that MDC was only for people who wanted to heard their own voice echoed back to them. I think there are other ways of conveying an opion such as "no more kids please" , it IS rude, but it is a thought I've had on several occasions.


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

I'm going to respectfully bow my way out of this discussion, don't feel like arguing


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## KempsMama (Dec 1, 2008)

I feel sorry for anyone who views pregnancy and birth as a selfish endeavor. To me, and I think, to most moms, it is one of the most selfLESS acts a human can participate in.


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## waiting2bemommy (Dec 2, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KempsMama*
> 
> I feel sorry for anyone who views pregnancy and birth as a selfish endeavor. To me, and I think, to most moms, it is one of the most selfLESS acts a human can participate in.


This is so true. And beyond just the birth itself, everyone I know who thinks raising kids is sooo easy pretty much does not care beyond the basic feeding, clothing and keeping alive of their children. I ended a friendship over that attitude. she just doesn't want to be bothered with them at ALL. But she continues to get pregnant (with somebody who announced in front of 15 people "I f-ing hate kids.") It's people like that who give a bad name to moms of many kids who really are hands on with their kids and are raising them selflessly.

If you do it right, or at least TRY to do it right, it is LOTS of work. Definitely not selfish!


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## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

Hmmm..I have to say that one of the most selfless AND SELFISH things I have ever done is having my last two sons. I have raised them the best that I could to this point --- always focused on them and their best interest - I will love and protect them until the end of time, but hey...I had them both because I wanted another baby  Maybe everyone is right and it is a give and get situation...B


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## Veronika01 (Apr 16, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hippiemom85*
> 
> I am curious, and you can disregard if you choose, why do you to want so many kids? is it religious? spiritual? happiness?


You said in a previous post that you yearned for years for your one child. Why did you yearn for him? is it religious? spiritual? happiness? Because I can assure that every single child in a larger family, especially the larger families on Mothering, were yearned for in the same way.


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## holyhelianthus (Jul 15, 2006)

It's not about differing opinion it's about the total tactless way that differing opinion is worded. "Popping out kids" really?! There was a lot of assumption in that post and not much room for discussion.


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## KempsMama (Dec 1, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *holyhelianthus*
> 
> It's not about differing opinion it's about the total tactless way that differing opinion is worded. "Popping out kids" really?! There was a lot of assumption in that post and not much room for discussion.


I agree, that wording is offensive. But it doesn't surprise me that she used that language, given her overall feelings towards birth.


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KempsMama*
> 
> I agree, that wording is offensive. But it doesn't surprise me that she used that language, given her overall feelings towards birth.


ummm okay, i just want to say that you just dont "get it", and that's fine. Silly of me to even have said anything at all


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> This is so true. And beyond just the birth itself, everyone I know who thinks raising kids is sooo easy pretty much does not care beyond the basic feeding, clothing and keeping alive of their children. I ended a friendship over that attitude. she just doesn't want to be bothered with them at ALL. But she continues to get pregnant (with somebody who announced in front of 15 people "I f-ing hate kids.") It's people like that who give a bad name to moms of many kids who really are hands on with their kids and are raising them selflessly.
> 
> If you do it right, or at least TRY to do it right, it is LOTS of work. Definitely not selfish!


i have ABSOLUTELY NOT NOT NOT stated that having children is EASY!, but it is selfish none the less, when choosing to bring life to this earth you are adding yet another mouth that needs to be fed, get a education, and a meaningful or at least decent job! this decision is (IMO) is not being thought of critically enough. Are you guys at all aware of what is going on in the world???? turn on NPR for one hour, listen to it in the background or something, I think miss education is to blame for this type of thinking. Our kids are going to have a REALLY hard time growing up, and we need to do all we can to make it a little easier for them.

if I can't properly convey my thoughts on line w/o you guys thinking I either hate children or whatever else, it really doesn't matter anymore because you guys feel the way you're gonna feel.

I would like to mention that your story about your ex-friend is a perfect example of people who should stop procreating. IMO of course

Okay I'm done now


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## kawa kamuri (Apr 19, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hippiemom85*
> 
> I think miss education is to blame for this type of thinking.


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kawa kamuri*


wow you're slick, you got me, i'm miseducated, ignore EVERYTHING ive said


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

hippiemom85 - it's kind of interesting to hear you say having a kid is selfish after reading the thread you stared below about how challenging it is to care for your toddler. Obviously, it's very self-less, especially if you want to do so in a way that meets all of his needs, right? You also said you want to give him a sibling, but are having a hard time figuring out how you would be able to manage that.

If your biggest concern is overpopulation and how awful the world is, that is fine, as it is your opinion. Just realize that others look at it differently. Yes, we are having more than one or two children that will then take up space on this planet, but they will also be contributing greatly, too.


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife*
> 
> If your biggest concern is overpopulation and how awful the world is, that is fine, as it is your opinion. Just realize that others look at it differently. Yes, we are having more than one or two children that will then take up space on this planet, but they will also be contributing greatly, too.


yes, i hope so


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kawa kamuri*


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hippiemom85*
> 
> I wandered into the thread, yes, I didn't realize that MDC was only for people who wanted to heard their own voice echoed back to them. I think there are other ways of conveying an opion such as "no more kids please" , it IS rude, but it is a thought I've had on several occasions.


Not so much an echo chamber, but it does help to consider your audience. Maybe a new thread so people who want to put the energy into the discussion can, and leave this thread for those of us wondering how to deal with rude, unsolicited advice instead of adding rude unsolicited advice of your own?


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## kawa kamuri (Apr 19, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hippiemom85*
> 
> wow you're slick, you got me, i'm miseducated, ignore EVERYTHING ive said


Lady, today is my EDD with baby #6. As much as I'd love to have a battle of wits with a stranger on the internet I....don't. Nothing personal, it's just not my job or desire to engage anyone in negativity. I was being cheeky.


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kawa kamuri*
> 
> Lady, today is my EDD with baby #6. As much as I'd love to have a battle of wits with a stranger on the internet I....don't. Nothing personal, it's just not my job or desire to engage anyone in negativity. I was being cheeky.


wow, blessings in your direction (no cheekiness)


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## hippiemom85 (Jan 2, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annettemarie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


okay, you're right, I was just trying to show another side to it, but I shouldn't have


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## momfosampson (Jul 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dr.Worm*
> 
> I only have two kids but I love what Martha Sears would say when people would criticize her "The world needs my kids."


Here! Here! Great comeback.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

My sister has 6 and I am pregnant with #5 (a surprise). No religious reasons or anything for having so many kids. We come from a teeny family and want to grow the family tree.

Anyway, every time we tell my mom one of us is PG, she ALWAYS tells us this story about a man who kept building his house, because he thought when he stopped, he would die. She says she thinks us having children is like him building the house. It keeps her alive.

I posted my news about #5 on FB. I got a lot of "Wows" but nothing bad. My sister posted the story about my mom. I said, "Yes, if anyone wants to know why we have so many kids, now you know. We have a duty to my mom."

No one can say anything bad after that! (I'm a little worried for my mom, though, since we are both REALLY done!)


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Every time I have been pregnant or had a newborn, some HORRIBLE event happens-- either a natural disaster, terrorist strike, or some terrible case of murder/rape/etc. I can think of them all (9/11, Hurricane Katrina, etc.) Each time, I think, "What kind of world am I bringing my children into?" It is scary! But then I think, this is life. We can't live in fear-- we can't pass on a message of hopelessness to our children. Instead, we have a *duty* to raise children who are educated, kind, and responsible. Let's be the ones to fill the world with them!

Regarding having only a few children-- it is a very personal choice. However, coming from a family in which I only had one sibling and a parent die when I was 13, I can honestly say that more family members would be VERY welcome to me. I can't protect my children from the future, but at least I can give them siblings to help support them through it. As you said, I do believe this will make it easier for them!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hippiemom85*
> Our kids are going to have a REALLY hard time growing up, and we need to do all we can to make it a little easier for them.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

It's OK to wonder. I wonder how people become concert soloists, neurosurgeons, or start their own computer companies and become billionaires. The world is filled with amazing people. Just because you may not be able to care for 6 children properly doesn't mean it isn't possible. I'm sure you can do other things well!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hippiemom85*  I'm sorry if I often wonder how someone can properly take care of 6 children


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