# A stranger bought my dd a chocolate bar...am I over-reacting?



## ilex (Apr 30, 2002)

Okay this is making me crazy, I haven't been able to talk to anyone about it yet as it was late so I really need to vent about it or else I may throw up.

Tonight me and the kids went to the video store to rent a movie. We were standing in line and ds started pulling me away, so as I was attempting to wrangle him back in to line my 4.5 yr old dd stayed in line, I was about two feet away. She had a bucket full of rocks which she had picked just prior to going to the store and was asking some people if they would like one.







So she turned to the man behind her and asked him if she would like a rock, he bent down and was very nice and said oh! thank you, those are very nice rocks, etc. they were talking for a few seconds and then he said that in return he would like to buy her a treat...(they were standing right beside the chocolate bars) I turned and said oh! no no no no, that is fine,you don't need to do that and smiled. ds ran away again and he told her to pick something, which she did to my nauseous heart, and he said he would like to get it for her, I quickly came back and said No thank you, she was just happy to give the rock away to someone, smiled and went to rent our movies. That was that, dd waved bye to him and we left. We were parked right in front of the store and while we were getting in he came up to me quite shyly and said, I would really like her to have this, I told her I would get it for her, he quickly handed me the chocolate bar and said to dd It was nice to meet you, share it with your mom and brother okay? and he left. I was kind of stunned and said thanks but you really shouldn't have, even though I had the bloody bar in my hand. And there I was. We didn't eat it, and I immediately had a very important heart to heart with dd about accepting things from people we don't know, or even allowing someone we don't know to buy us things, we talked about the situation and how next time if someone asks her to pick something out like that just to say no thank you. But oh my god, hyppocrite!! I just took the bar! I feel dirty, I feel nauseous, this whole thing REALLY bothered me! From start to finish. I think honestly the guy just felt touched that she gave him the rock and didn't know what to do. He was fairly young and obviously didn't know how inappropriate that was to offer such a thing, and it really floored me that he did. I honestly didn't know how to deal with it! And it all happened so fast, between me trying to keep the kids together and get the movies and stay in line and say no thank to this guy firmly yet politely it was chaos! And since then I have just felt so rotten about this! I should have said right away very firmly and point blank, no thanks she is not allowed to accept things from people she doesn't know. Or some such thing. I am always TOO bloody polite, worried about offending someone, well not always but something passively weird like this just kind of throws me! Ack!

Anyway, thank you for letting me vent, I will never let anything of this sort ever happen again. Even though it may have been totally innocent it was still really kind of creepy and it really freaked me out that dd picked something. I feel like a crappy crappy mom.blah.

Am I over reacting? Not reacting strongly enough? I might need some help with perspective here...


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I actually don't think you made a mistake by taking the candy car. I am a very paranoid mama, and would also have talked with my ds about it if we had been in this situation. But I see it this way: If the guy was some kind of creepy, scary, weirdo, then taking the candy bar was the quickest way to get rid of him. And if he wasn't, then no harm done. I probably would have told my ds that he if any stranger ever offers him food/treats/toys/whatever that he tells them that he has to ask his mom or dad. And if they aren't there to be asked, then the answer is no thank you. This sounds very much like what you told your dd.

I think you handled it just fine. I know what you mean about these things happening quickly, and I especially know the fear that you compromised your children for the need to be polite. But I don't think that is necessarily what happened here.

Just to be clear, I would also have found it scary, and would not have let ds eat the candy bar. But just the act of you taking it, after having already told him no several times, I don't think is a big deal.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

If it was hard for you to say no, think of how much harder it is for kids. How scary doe you!


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

I think you are overreacting a bit. He didn't walk by your house, stop to chat your dd up in the yard, then offer her candy. He was in line at the video store and your dd initiated the conversation by giving him the rock. She was kind in giving him something (well, a rock but still her heart was in the right place) and he felt he'd like to give her something. Nearby is a candy bar display. No harm in that unless you are diabetic. He didn't pull the possibly tainted candy from his coat; it was for sale at your video store.

You say he was young; if he didn't have kids, he may well never have imagined his actions could be upsetting or worrisome to you. He was just trying to be nice.

I think it is sad that we are to the point where we shield our kids from decent people just in case they are the small percentage point who could harm them. You were right nearby; I assume the clerk could see her in line. It doesn't strike me as dangerous or unsavory in any way. I can see where it would happen.

I do understand your "is this ok?" feelings about it; it is something to give a once over to. I just would have come up with a different end feeling I think.

Did you or your dd have a bad feeling about him before he wanted to give her the candy?

I once read that if you need help, it is better to randomly ask someone than wait for someone to offer. Thought being that your chance of choosing the predator is very low. But the predator will be looking for someone in need to "assist". Your dd chose this man to give a rock to. In line at your local video store. Now if you'd seen him driving past your house last week, over and over, or asking the video clerk if they had kiddie porn - I can understand a strong reaction to him speaking to your child. But she initiated it and it seems harmless to me. I think he was just trying to be nice.


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## alicia622 (May 8, 2005)

I also think you are over-reacting a little bit. I would have been mostly weirded out by the fact he pushed the issue so much byfollowing you to the car and continuing to insist you take the candy. He probably was feeling a strong need to return the favor since your daughter did give him something.

Feel better- you did what was best in the situation- you got rid of him by taking the candy.


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## patty_g (May 30, 2005)

You will not find a more paranoid mother than me. Seriously. But here it is normal for strangers to walk to and give kids stuff. Candy, juice boxes, stuffed animals. No kidding. One of my friends had someone come up to her car and hand her son (18 months old and in his carseat) a piece of candy. People have walked up to my son on the street and given him stuffed animals. We can be checking out at the grocery store and the manager may come over and give the kids candy. When we were visiting the Heritage Village (one of those places that does things the "old" way to show how things were done), my DD was running around (20 months at the time) and suddenly she was GONE! One of the men who ran the place had picked her up and taken her into the office to get a juice box. I about fainted. I was running around frantically searching for her because the village is right on the beach and I had all sorts of horrible thoughts going on in my mind. Two minutes later this man appears carrying DD who is happily sucking down an apple juice. My DS who is 3+ will not take ANYTHING from ANYONE. They have to hand it to me first and then he will take it only from me. He also won't say thank you, but that's a different problem. My DD also will not take something from someone who just walks up to give it to her (with the exception being the apple juice, I guess she was thirsty.) And if any MAN talks to, touches, tries to pick up, looks at, or otherwise pays any attention to my DD at all, my son immediately gets a challenging look on his face and says "You don't touch my BABY!" He will yell for me or his dad at the top of his lungs saying "THAT MAN IS TOUCHING TABARAK!" My DH is very proud of that. And that's not something we taught him, it's just something he did on his own. Interestingly though, he doesn't have the same qualms towards women.









So I guess all that is to say that in the same situation, I would have declined and if he insisted, I would have probably made sure that the candy came through me and explained to DC (for the millionth time) to never, never, ever take anything from anyone without me or Dad okaying it and they should always see us take it from the person directly.


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## Quillian (Mar 1, 2003)

I think he was out of line to offer your child candy and to continue to be so persistent after you clearly made your wishes known. You did great


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## partymoo (Jul 13, 2005)

.


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Count me in the minority here ... but hey, I'm a minority







... but I would not only have not accepted it, I would have been borderline rude when he came back again and again.

I would have said ... and have had this experience and have said, "No, thank you, I will not accept it and my child will not have it. Do not give anything to my child. Please."

And if he persisted (as has happened), I would have said, "Get away before I call the police."

Sorry. To the OP, once you said no (which you did) and he ignored that (which he did), he overstepped all sorts of boundaries and there is no reason to be polite.

Then again, I read the OP quickly, maybe it was less boundary-crossing than I took it to be.
And glad that you got a teaching moment out of it.


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## MPJJJ (Oct 24, 2003)

Wow, yea, I think that you overreacted, and I hope that you don't pass that paranioa onto your DD. There is a time and a place to be scared, but this, from your description, was not the time and place.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MPJJJ*
Wow, yea, I think that you overreacted, and I hope that you don't pass that paranioa onto your DD. There is a time and a place to be scared, but this, from your description, was not the time and place.

I agree. I wouldn't have had a problem with it, but it seems just about everywhere we go DS is given candy etc.


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## Melda (Mar 27, 2003)

i think it was just his way of being nice. People are still nice now a days ... its just that we have become this paranoid soceity because media has made us this way. I mean i know bad things happen to kids alot now a days but it has for a long long time. It is just now they have a way to report it to people. SO i am not really in the "it is more dangerous now a days" mode as much as we just here it more than our parents did when we were little.

The only thing i think was wrong was that the man came to your car to give it to you after you said no. Would you have said no if he paid for your movies or asked her to pick out a movie? i sorda look at this as a RAK on this mans behalf. I would have taken it in the store and if i didnt want her to have it maybe talk to her about how its candy and not healthy so lets go pick out a healthy snack or a small toy in exchange (and pay for it myself) ..


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Ya know, I'm thinking if this happened with my DS and I reacted similarly he would be pretty confused. I mean, I felt it was OK for him to walk around a bit and talk with strangers and offer them a gift and then I get upset when it is reciprocated. I know he'd wonder why it was OK for him to approach and offer someone that doesn't know him something but not when it is reversed.

I think the video store is such a controlled environment and you were right there that getting a bit freaked out at a mutual exchange with me right there would upset my DS. He's very sensitive and would wonder why I felt he wasn't safe with me right there. But he picks up on very subtle undercurrents.


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## sevenkids (Dec 16, 2002)

That would not have freaked me out. I think he was just reacting to how sweet your dd was. Sadly, people just aren't used to other people being randomly nice anymore, and he probably was just moved by her kindness. It's kind of ingrained in us that we have to return a kindness in some way, it's really hard for a lot of people to just accept it. He may have felt obligated to return her gift of a rock with a gift of his own. It's also kind of customary for people to refuse a gift profusely before accepting it an then offer a gift in return (think eating out with friends and one offers to pay, "Please, let me!" "Oh, no, I couldn't!" "But I insist!" "Okay, but I'll pay for the next lunch then!")
And then, he promised her a candy and may have felt obligated to keep his promise to her.
In another situation it could be totally inappropriate and freaky, some dude sitting on a bench at a kiddie park handing out candy or something.


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## Pagan_princess (Jul 17, 2004)

I think that you overreacted also. If he had tried to hide the fact that he gave it to her, and said "Don't tell your momma" or something like that, then I would understand.

Maybe this guy was just flattered that your daughter was kind and polite enough to give a gift to a complete stranger. You should be overridden with pride that you are raising such a kind, and caring child, rather then worry that this guy was a loony or something. After all, don't kids get candy from strangers on Halloween?

If you were really worried about it, you couldn't have looked it over, and made sure that it wasn't "contaiminated" or something like that. I really think that he was just trying to reward her for doing a nice thing. After all, there still are kind, honest and decent people in the world.


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

I don't blame you for being concerned and upset that he was so persistent in making you accept the candy. I had a similar experience when we were on an elevator and an older man offered my 3 year old some candy. There was no escape, so I let her accept it, but when we got off the elevator I explained that we don't take candy from strangers and we threw it away together. I was surprised and annoyed that a man of that age didn't realize that most parents wouldn't appreciate a complete stranger giving candy to their kids.

I can't help but wonder what caused that young man to be so persistent. I just don't get a vibe that he was sinister or strange or anything. The thought occurs to me that he really loves kids, maybe he is a bit lonely .... maybe, heaven forbid, he lost a child recently.


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

It wouldn't have freaked me out. I've had people buy candy for DD before, and it doesn't bug me.

But it's your call to make, and I get why something like that could be upsetting.


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

Quote:

*Pagan_princess* wrote: After all, don't kids get candy from strangers on Halloween?
I've seen this argument used before in this context, and to me, it just doesn't play. Halloween is a very different situation because the parent is in control of who they allow their children to solicit candy from. And, yes, they are soliciting the candy, it is not being offered out of the blue and catching the parent off-guard. Parents who do not want their children accepting candy from strangers most likely choose not to participate in trick or treating. It's a completely different situation and not comparable to what the OP is describing.


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## MPJJJ (Oct 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonconformnmom*
I've seen this argument used before in this context, and to me, it just doesn't play. Halloween is a very different situation because the parent is in control of who they allow their children to solicit candy from. And, yes, they are soliciting the candy, it is not being offered out of the blue and catching the parent off-guard. Parents who do not want their children accepting candy from strangers most likely choose not to participate in trick or treating. It's a completely different situation and not comparable to what the OP is describing.

But the DD picked the candy bar that he gave to her, he didnt just dig it out of his pocket. The mother knew the source and watched the DD pick it off the shelves, so this instance was even safer than trick or treating.


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## nonconformnmom (May 24, 2005)

Quote:

But the DD picked the candy bar that he gave to her, he didnt just dig it out of his pocket. The mother knew the source and watched the DD pick it off the shelves, so this instance was even safer than trick or treating.
Did the mother of the child in the OP go to the video store expecting, wanting, knowing that her child would receive candy from a stranger?

Was the parent in control of who provided the candy and how or when it was offered? (When we trick or treat, we make sure we go only to safe neighborhoods where we know the people who live there. We also make sure we go only after the kids have had a full, healthful meal so they won't fill up on candy before eating with the family.)


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

I don't think you overreacted at all.

Once you said, No, and he persisted, he crossed the line (as mperk said).

You are not paranoid. It was a difficult situation and you handled it well.


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## Quillian (Mar 1, 2003)

I think the op followed her intuition on this one and hindsight is always easy to overthink things. I have found intuition to be pretty much spot on.


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

I can't say if you overreacted because it was your child and I would never want to tell you how to raise your child but I can tell you how I would feel in the same situation. I would have let the stranger pick out a candy bar if the stranger asked me. My modivation is that the candy is safe if it just came off the shelf and I see it as a lesson about the goodness of humanity. I know there are a lot of sickos out ther but I refuse to believe that most humans want to harm children. True fear is power but being parinoid isn't always helpful. Since I also believe that a child can understand the difference between when mommy is around and says okay and when someone is trying to lure if they have the knowlege. A man attempted to abduct me out of my front yard when I was 8 years old, it was very scary and included physical contact, my fear worked for me but I am not parinoid, it was a different feeling all together. I had the knowlege, it felt very scary so I bit him and ran. That sort of teaching comes before any sort of altercation, really should be part of everday play.

On the off side, I can't help but think of my DH as the man, it sounds like him, even if I have toldhim others might think it is creepy. He's just that sort of super-nice, sweet daddy type...


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## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

i agree with bathrobe goddess. it does show the goodness of humanity and i would ve accepted it.


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## CrazyCatLady (Aug 17, 2004)

Old people have been buying Zayla candy since she was probably 4 months old (yes you read that right). I don't see how safety is an issue considering that you saw right where it came from. When I can't get them to take no for and answer I just say thank you very much and give it to my husband later. I think that they are just lonely and trying to be nice. People didn't have the same knowledge/opinions about candy that we do now. A good time to tell your kids about strangers and giving you things though. Not sure how I'll deal with the people trying to give us candy when Zayla is not a baby. I doubt that I'll be freaked out or mad about it though. I really do think that he was just being nice, even if he came off as creepy to you.


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

"Goodness of humanity"?

I wouldn't want my kids to think that someone who buys them candy is automatically axiomatically a paragon of goodness. Because _they're not_.

Children learn solidly about the goodness of humanity by maybe doing charitable work, or by helping people who need help, or by learning about all the ways they can help fix the world. Getting a piece of candy teaches them only that this particular grown-up wants them to have a piece of candy.


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## Starr (Mar 16, 2005)

I don't want to say if you over reacted or not because its a matter of opinion and you obviously felt something was a miss to come and post. Putting myself in your situation I would have probably let him give the treat. Because I saw it on the shelf and there was no way to tamper with it, because the child interacted with him first and not the other way around, and because he was probably trying to be nice. A similar thing happened to DH and I in McDonalds (hide) this weekend. We were waiting to order and a little girl of probably 3 or 4 came up to the counter from where she was eating and was trying to get their attention from behind the counter so DH told the worker there was a little girl there, she was so short they couldn't see her, and she asked for more caramel for her apple slices. The lady got a packet for her but then told her it would be a quarter, just for one packet of caramel. So DH dug in his pocket and gave them a quarter. He didn't think it was a big deal and it made the little girl so happy. Personally I think they should have just given it to her for free.


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Relevant to my experience to point out that because of kashrus (keeping kosher), we will not accept candy from *anyone* and yes, strangers have offered it to my children. Usually it's not kosher. And yes, sometimes they persist after I say no.

Is that the goodness of humanity, too?

I've said no, I don't want my child to have it. They say yes, their opinion about what's right for my child matters more than mine. They persist, and that's what they're saying ...

Is that the goodness of humanity, too?


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Starr, your example is not the same. In your case, the parent wasn't there saying no, I don't want you to have that.


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## LovemyBoo (Oct 11, 2004)

I don't think you overreacted.

What raises my alarm in your story is not that he offered the candy but that he ignored your repeated "no, thank you". People that ignore or disregard the word "no" usually make me uneasy.

You went with your instincts and that's great! Keep listening. What's the worst that happened here? Some strange guy at the video store thinks you're overprotective? Your dd will think twice before accepting candy from someone she doesn't know? Big deal on both counts. At best you let this guy know that your kid isn't an easy target. If you ruffle a few feathers here and there in the name of protecting your child, so be it. It beats the alternative. Keep listening to your heart.


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## mama_b (Dec 14, 2004)

I won't say you overreacted, but I think your dd got the wrong message. While I also would not want my dd to accept candy from a stranger, I also would not allow her to be giving things to strangers. I think that would be confusing to her.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

When he first offered to buy her the candy bar I don't think he did anythig wrong and was just wanting to give your dd something for giving him the rock. I would have let her accept it but your the mama your call. It would have made me uneasy for my own personal reasons and nothing to do with the man trying to be kind to my child.

Okay though as soon as you said no he should have backed off. I think that our society as a whole thinks "no" is negotiable. You have to be so damn firm when saying no to most people. It's like they don't even hear it unless you get a little harsh. It shouldn't be that way but it is. So just stay firm and if you have to get harsh do it. I am forever working on this. I'm shy and it's hard to stay firm but damn it NO MEANS NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## MamaChel (Mar 28, 2003)

I may have reacted differently but in that situation the man did overstep the bounds by refusing to abide by your stated wishes. He offered and you declined, if I'm reading your story right, you declined more than once. That is an issue.

I don't know if you were overreacting or not. I may have reacted differently but the fact is that the man disrespected your stated wishes which would bother me.


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quillian*
I think the op followed her intuition on this one and hindsight is always easy to overthink things. I have found intuition to be pretty much spot on.

Yea, that. Always listen to that inner voice. If the person and/or incident made you uncomfortable, it was for a reason. It was your intuition telling you that something was "off." And even if the man's intentions were completely innocent, you don't want your child to learn that it's ok to accept things from strangers.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pagan_princess*
After all, don't kids get candy from strangers on Halloween?

Not my kids. We only trick-or-treat at the homes of our friends and relatives. So this argument is moot.

OP, I've had annoying incidents like that happen too. I would have reacted the same way you did. I would have been very flustered, nervous, anxious. I probably would have accepted the candy just to get the guy to go away, and then I would have thrown it out too.

When DD2 was a newborn, I went out to lunch with her and DD1. DD1 (3yo) was being unusually antsy at the restaurant. I was struggling, nursing a fussy newborn in an uncomfortable restaurant chair. A woman at the next table offered DD1 her unopened package of oyster crackers from the soup she had just been served. My defenses immediately went up too, but I listened to my intuition, which told me... "This woman is sitting at a table with her husband and toddler daughter. You just saw her get served these crackers. She is trying to be helpful. She's a mom. The likelihood that she's a predator are very low." So I thanked her profusely. And it made DD happy and calm. I talked with DD about it later in the car, but I'm not sure the message stuck. I have to keep talking with her about this stuff, as I learned by reading the greatest book in the world, _Protecing the Gift_ by Gavin de Becker. I recommend this as required reading for ALL parents. It's all about listening to your intuition and describes how to best protect your children.


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

That would have weirded me out, particularly the way he repeatedly offered and then basically followed you to your car, insisting.

Dd has occasionally been 'given' candy, by a neighbour or the lady at the corner store, and once by a cab driver. Usually they check with me or her dad first, and even if they don't, it goes first to us, and we decide if/when she may have it. She knows this, and I would be very ticked if anyone made a big issue out of my declining the candy on her behalf. I would be uncomfortable with someone pushing the dynamic of 'my mommy knows whether this is an ok situation to accept the candy.'

If something like this happens again and a simple no thank you doesn't suffice, a polite way to handle it would be to say something like "We're working on safety rules right now, and it's important she not accept the candy, thanks." May be a bit embarrassing for the offeror, but gets to the point.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Were you paranoid to refuse the candy? most likely. I have old and young people give and offer my kids candy. Really not accepting candy from strangers is in part pf the evil stranger myth and not an exclusive rule, actually it can be very confusing. My kids have gotten stuff at hospitals and dentist office. We have been in a candy store and other stranger kids have bought candy and gave mine a piece. We have been to many festivals and such were strangers have given my kids stuff. We get free samples from strangers all the time at the store.

We instead have a rule if you are given something you need to ask mom or dad before you eat it. Then we judgment from there.

Our children are more likely to be harmed by someone they know. It drives our family nuts that my kids will still ask if it is ok when they get something. But this gives us room to deny or delay it.

Were you wrong to be paranoid/weird out when he persisted? NO!!!!!! People that won't except NO are creepy. He cross your comfort line. That would creep me out. I hate when people cannot accept a no. He could have been taught that, like one other person's lunch example.


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## `guest` (Nov 20, 2001)

I can't say the op overreacted; there are a variety of things to consider, one being location, culture etc. We had a friend from Morocco who was extremely warm to children; in Morocco a child is everyone's child, he told us. In NYC, people tend to be rude, in their own world and such an incident would be strange. In the midwest, people are much more friendly, and it wouldn't be weird. So I think it's a contextual matter, that can't be generalized. The op knows what she felt was right in context.


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## lerlerler (Mar 31, 2004)

well, obviously your first goal is immediate safety.
Secondary goal, to teach a lesson about safety

You did GREAT there
But I was trying decide what I would do and I think I had two other goals...

1) talk about good intentions and being gracious and despite those we STILL don't take the chocolate

2) if the guy was a legit guy, teach him a bit

so I came up with this response...

Smile broadly and say "That was sweet but you don't actually expect me to let my child take candy from strangers do you?" and hand the bar back

ANy legit guy would go "OMG, I never thought of it like that.


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## eleven (Aug 14, 2004)

Wow what an interesting thread! I think it's great that we all have such different reactions to the same situation.







:

Personally, I would have said thank you and made sure dd shared with her mama.







Since he was reciprocating her kindness, it wouldn't have set off any alarms for me. Had he been the one to initiate, I would have been hesitant.


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

Well, you asked so I'll be honest: yes, I think you were over-reacting.

Perhaps he thought you were only being polite by saying, "no, thank you." Perhaps your daughter just made his day by offering her rock to him. Perhaps he wanted a way to say "thank you" for that and when you initially refused his gift, he couldn't think of another way to do that and kept insisting. ???

Where I live, as a previous poster mentioned, it is not uncommon for my child to receive toys at the playground, candy at stores or restaurants...And we do the same.


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## CrazyCatLady (Aug 17, 2004)

By the way, I hate when it when strangers don't take no for an answer about anything. It drives me crazy how people just don't get it sometimes or refuse to respect what we say as parents or people. Sometimes trying to be nice just ends up making them a pain. Ever been standing on a curb or near a street not ready to cross for some reason. Then some car stops and waves you on, you wave for them to just go because you're not ready yet, and they sit there waiting for you, still waveing with a big ol grin on their faces. Drives me nuts when that happens. Why isn't a "no thank you" good enough for some people?


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

I wouldn't want my kids to think that someone who buys them candy is automatically axiomatically a paragon of goodness. Because they're not.

Of course it doesn't mean that that person is always good but it does teach the goodness of little actions, something one can do everyday to help a small piece of humanity. This isn't a lesson about this one person, I see it as a broad lesson about the little things one can do for another person.

Children learn solidly about the goodness of humanity by maybe doing charitable work, or by helping people who need help, or by learning about all the ways they can help fix the world. Getting a piece of candy teaches them only that this particular grown-up wants them to have a piece of candy.

Again, I don't think I got my opinion across clearly, Lessons come in all shapes and sizes. Of course children learn about their goddness by helping others in large ways but I do not dismiss the everyday goodness because it may be very small. I want them to learn that goodness and that fixing the world can be done everyday, in a million small ways. And that they deserve to be on the recieving end as much as on the giving end.

I do agree that the man forcing you to take the candy bar was out of line and of course my perspective comes from accepting the gift right off the bat and not saying no.


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## tinyshoes (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovemyBoo*
I don't think you overreacted.

What raises my alarm in your story is not that he offered the candy but that he ignored your repeated "no, thank you". People that ignore or disregard the word "no" usually make me uneasy.

You went with your instincts and that's great! Keep listening. What's the worst that happened here? Some strange guy at the video store thinks you're overprotective? Your dd will think twice before accepting candy from someone she doesn't know? Big deal on both counts. At best you let this guy know that your kid isn't an easy target. If you ruffle a few feathers here and there in the name of protecting your child, so be it. It beats the alternative. Keep listening to your heart.









right on.

I'm suprised no one else has referenced author Gavin de Becker's #1 bestseller, The Gift of Fear, which I think I must've heard about on Oprah.

Quote:

Perhaps we have a bad feeling about someone we've just met, or a little gnawing perception that a situation just doesn't "feel right," or perhaps even a fear that a co-worker might do something harmful. What de Becker, renowned expert on violent behavior, explains here is that instead of shrugging off these fears, we need to listen to them, see why we're having them, and act accordingly. Far from being silly intuitions, often these can truly show when something is wrong and violence might be imminent; if listened to, along with information about how violent people behave, these feelings might protect us from harm. Using examples from cases on which he's worked and even from his own childhood of domestic violence de Becker shows how instinct, and knowledge, can warn us of impending violence, whether by stalkers, family members, predators, or people in the workplace.
Amazon.com is so cool, 'cause you can read the first few pages of the book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0440...3D#reader-link
I think that de Becker's intro, that you can read online right here, is invaluable. It affirms that it's OKAY and possibly imparative that we trust our "silly overreactions" to people's "kindness."

For crying out loud--no means no. The _best_ outcome would've been this guy accepting no as an answer, and posting on HIS bullitian board about how paranoid this chick (the OP) was--and how he chose to STOP PUSHING the candy issue because he is sensitive and respectful of this mother (the OP) and her child.


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinyshoes*
I'm suprised no one else has referenced author Gavin de Becker's #1 bestseller, The Gift of Fear, which I think I must've heard about on Oprah.

I mentioned de Becker's other book, _Protecting the Gift_, in my post, post 34 on page 2.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...9&postcount=34

Someone else may have mentioned it, as well. It is similar to _The Gift of Fear_, but it is more specific to protecting children.


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## OakBerry (May 24, 2005)

I don't think you overreacted.
When ds was about 18 months we were waiting for take out at a local restaurant. They had a M&M vending machine in the lobby. Ds was fascinated by it, didn't necessarily know what they were though. An older man was interacting with ds, being nice and talking to him while he was toddling around. I thought it was nice. While I was paying for my food, the man bought a handful of m&m's from the machine (they were loose but they came directly out of the machine) and ds had one in his mouth already by the time I was able to say "please don't give my son any candy"! The man apologized and I thanked him and pocketed the candy. I told the man that ds was about to eat dinner, that's why we were here, and besides, I didn't want him having candy at such a young age, but thank you very much for the nice gesture. I also told him that I didn't want him to get used to strangers giving him candy. The guy was truly trying to be nice, told me how his grandkids love candy, etc. I could tell he was a bit puzzled by my reaction, but oh well. Nice or not, I don't want strangers giving my kids anything to eat without my permission.
I think refusing politely but firmly is the way to go.


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

Whether or not another mother might have accepted the candy when it was first offered has nothing to do with the fact that you had every right to decline the candy and to have your wishes respected. You also didn't need a "reason" not to want your daughter to accept it - maybe safety, maybe nutrition or allergies, or maybe 'just because.'


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## tinyshoes (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Corvus*
I mentioned de Becker's other book, _Protecting the Gift_, in my post, post 34 on page 2.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...9&postcount=34

Someone else may have mentioned it, as well. It is similar to _The Gift of Fear_, but it is more specific to protecting children.

thanks, mama--like I said, I was suprised no one had mentioned it...and indeed, suprise is now gone, book was mentioned.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellasmum*
I immediately had a very important heart to heart with dd about accepting things from people we don't know,

I still don't get how it was OK for DD to approach someone, offer someone something etc if you are so freaked out by her accepting something. We all have to teach our kids what's important to us, so I'm not questioning that, just the mixed message of this particular incident. So DD is viewed as innocent and full of love for her actions but the same actions following her actions are tainted, not innocent, creepy?

I agree the guy should have accepted no, but you were not happy with the offer before the insistence.

Your DD engaged this man with you there. It's not like he went out of his way to get her attention.


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## charmander (Dec 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten*
I think you are overreacting a bit. He didn't walk by your house, stop to chat your dd up in the yard, then offer her candy. He was in line at the video store and your dd initiated the conversation by giving him the rock. She was kind in giving him something (well, a rock but still her heart was in the right place) and he felt he'd like to give her something. Nearby is a candy bar display. No harm in that unless you are diabetic. He didn't pull the possibly tainted candy from his coat; it was for sale at your video store.

You say he was young; if he didn't have kids, he may well never have imagined his actions could be upsetting or worrisome to you. He was just trying to be nice.

I think it is sad that we are to the point where we shield our kids from decent people just in case they are the small percentage point who could harm them. You were right nearby; I assume the clerk could see her in line. It doesn't strike me as dangerous or unsavory in any way. I can see where it would happen.

I do understand your "is this ok?" feelings about it; it is something to give a once over to. I just would have come up with a different end feeling I think.

Did you or your dd have a bad feeling about him before he wanted to give her the candy?

I once read that if you need help, it is better to randomly ask someone than wait for someone to offer. Thought being that your chance of choosing the predator is very low. But the predator will be looking for someone in need to "assist". Your dd chose this man to give a rock to. In line at your local video store. Now if you'd seen him driving past your house last week, over and over, or asking the video clerk if they had kiddie porn - I can understand a strong reaction to him speaking to your child. But she initiated it and it seems harmless to me. I think he was just trying to be nice.









:


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## queen bee (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicole lisa*
I still don't get how it was OK for DD to approach someone, offer someone something etc if you are so freaked out by her accepting something. We all have to teach our kids what's important to us, so I'm not questioning that, just the mixed message of this particular incident. So DD is viewed as innocent and full of love for her actions but the same actions following her actions are tainted, not innocent, creepy?

I agree the guy should have accepted no, but you were not happy with the offer before the insistence.

Your DD engaged this man with you there. It's not like he went out of his way to get her attention.


This is EXACTLY what I was thinking. Your child's desire to connect and express kindness to strangers is cute and charming, but any reciprocation is suspect? It's been said before, but it bears repeating - he did not seek her out, your daughter offered him a gift. Just because he doesn't "get" your "rules" about children and candy (which differ wildly from culture to culture, and from one person to the next anyway) doesn't necessarily make him a bad guy. For all you know, this could have been the only human who had shown him any kindness at all - and he desperately wanted to reciprocate. He could have handled it more gracefully, but you should be able to understand that, since you were pretty flustered yourself.


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## ChrisCountryGirl (Dec 8, 2004)

No, I believe you can never be too safe and trusting your instincts when it comes to your children.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I do think you overreacted a bit. I think that the guy was just trying to be friendly. You were there with your dd, so it wasn't like she was taking something from someone without you around. I can see how it would have felt weird for you, but this could have been a chance to teach about the difference between when we do and don't accept things from people.


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

I feel like everybody here who has said, "Oh, it's okay where we live to give kids candy" is missing the whole point of the interaction.

The mama said no. He persisted even after the mama said no.

Which part of "no" did he not understand?


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicole lisa*
I still don't get how it was OK for DD to approach someone, offer someone something etc if you are so freaked out by her accepting something. We all have to teach our kids what's important to us, so I'm not questioning that, just the mixed message of this particular incident. So DD is viewed as innocent and full of love for her actions but the same actions following her actions are tainted, not innocent, creepy?

The OP's DD is a small child... a toddler from what I gather. She is still learning social skills. She still has a LOT to learn about interacting with strangers. She is probably still too young to understand the nuances between "you approached him first so it's ok" and "he approached you first so it's not ok." At this age, the rules about strangers need to be explicity clear, black and white. Toddlers do not understand "gray areas." Even when you think your child knows and understands the black-and-white rules, they still often violate them, b/c they forget or think "this guy seems friendly."

Of course the DD's offer of the rocks is innocent. She's a toddler! But the adult should have simply thanked her. His actions are "tainted" b/c he is old enough to know that, at least in THIS culture, it's not wise to put children in the position of accepting something from a stranger, and most parents are uncomfortable with it. And most importantly, he should respect that no means no.


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

And where do some of you live that people carry around candy and stuffed animals and toys to hand out to the children of strangers?


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## charmander (Dec 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Corvus*
And where do some of you live that people carry around candy and stuffed animals and toys to hand out to the children of strangers?

I wasn' one of the posters who mentioned it, but I live in Seattle and it does happen here. And it has also occurred in the places we have visited, including Texas, California and Hawaii. Usually it is just candy, but my DD has been offered stuffed animals several times in just the past few months.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

This happens to my kids frequently.
We stand in line at the convenience store and some old man gives them each a quarter. Or sombody buys them each a sucker.
We walk into Walmart and the lady at the door gives them each a sticker.
We go through the bakery and somebody gives them each a cookie.
Giving makes people feel good. And giving to children and seeing them smile doubly so.
It is sad that some people have perverted this natural type of interaction into something that is abused to harm children.
It is my job to protect my children against abuse of others. NOt to protect them against all interaction with kind people.
Candy is not the only way, nor the most prevalent way that abusers take advantage of children.
Joline


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## Monkeyfeet (Feb 5, 2005)

I really can not comment on whether you over reacted, because my dd (only child) is 15 months (today), so I have not btdt. So I am unsure how I would honestly feel. A few things made me think though (I apologize, I did not read the other responses), your dd did offer him a rock so he really just followed her lead. The other thought was that yes, he was persistent. That may have bugged me. However, he did say right from the start that he wanted to buy it for her, so maybe he felt that he really needed to follow through with her so that he didn't disappoint her. He may feel this way out of his own guilt or because of some issues from childhood.

Just my thoughts!


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## queen bee (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *johub*
It is my job to protect my children against abuse of others. NOt to protect them against all interaction with kind people.
Candy is not the only way, nor the most prevalent way that abusers take advantage of children.
Joline


What she said.


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## queen bee (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Corvus*
And where do some of you live that people carry around candy and stuffed animals and toys to hand out to the children of strangers?

One of the posters who mentioned toys and candy lives in Eastern Europe.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

double post...


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Corvus*
At this age, the rules about strangers need to be explicity clear, black and white.


Right. That's my point. For it not to be a grey area the talk afterwards between adult and child would need to not only focus on not accepting things from strangers, but also in not approaching strangers, or offering things to strangers.

We have lived in Toronto, Ottawa and Hull with DS and everywhere we've lived (usually in diverse urban centres) DS has been offered candy, small toys etc on a regular basis. He knows he gets candy at any of ther Chinese markets in the city, the Italian pastry shop, the Middle Eastern bakery etc. Women on the street stop and hadn him lollipops, men in line at the bank.

When he was an infant and we were at a Burger King in Toronto a man who was eating with his family (older kids) came over, pinched his cheeks and proceeded to carry him around the place for a while. It's really common where I've lived.

I like it this way. As a few PPs wrote, the idea of teaching stranger=bad is dangerous. We need things from strangers sometimes and more often than not it's someone in the family's close circle that will bring harm to a child. We don't teach children that enough.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Wow. I'm really shocked that so many mamas think you were overreacting. This from a group who gets frustrated and angry when someone challenges their out-of-the-mainstream parenting. This young man, regardless of his intentions, did not respect this mother's parenting. Period.

Yes, our kids get candy offered to them constantly. I find that to be a huge problem. Not only does that chip away at what should be a healthy caution of strangers, but it's junk! My own children eat very, very little candy; we avoid anything with dyes and corn syrup; I don't like the impact they have on my children plus corn syrup has been linked to obesity and I just don't think that we need to be pushing that crap on children. Plus, my youngest has severe food allergies and that "harmless" gift is potentially very, very dangerous.

"Don't accept candy/food from strangers" is not a new concept. The first "no, thank you" should have been more than sufficient.

At the same time, trusting your instinct that he had good intentions, I think ultimately accepting the candy was probably a good option, taking the time later to explain to your dd why you wouldn't be eating it. Or, like a pp suggested, you could have used it as a "teaching moment" and explained your very reasonable hesitation to the young man.

I do think that, to avoid confusion, it's probably not a good idea to encourage your dd to pass out gifts to strangers. But, that doesn't diminish your right as a parent to politely refuse the candy.


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## rgarlough (Jul 18, 2002)

Ds has had his share of little old ladies buying him chocolate at the grocery store. They are always so kind and I just can't tell them no









They are just from a different, less paranoid generation.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I can see why you (the OP) were bothered, but I don't think I would have been.

a) It does sound as though the young man was just taken with your daughter, because she was being a sweet, cute little kid. I've seen strangers offer things to cute kids before...and especially since she'd given him the rock. Sure - it was "just" a rock, but he may have been around a few kids (or even remembered being a kid himself) and known that a rock can be a real treasure to a small child. Most people assume that kids like candy.

b) I know that you had said no, and he should have respected that. But, he may not have realized that you meant "no" - he may have dismissed it as a pro forma "this is what people are supposed to say when offered something" kind of stance. I doubt he even realized that you didn't want her to have the candy.

c) He did finally give it to _you_, not to your dd. He didn't really persist _that_ strongly in forcing it on her as such.

If I were you, I wouldn't beat myself up for accepting it. Even though his behaviour bothered you, I think it would have been somewhat rude in return to take him to task for trying to do something nice for your dd.

Anyway...that's just my take. Creeps and weirdos are lurking in a lot of strange places, but I really don't see any harm in an impulsive wish to give a little girl a candy bar. We actually had a woman give my ds1 (then...10, I think) her sweater!!


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## jake&zaxmom (May 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sevenkids*
That would not have freaked me out. I think he was just reacting to how sweet your dd was. Sadly, people just aren't used to other people being randomly nice anymore, and he probably was just moved by her kindness. It's kind of ingrained in us that we have to return a kindness in some way, it's really hard for a lot of people to just accept it. He may have felt obligated to return her gift of a rock with a gift of his own. It's also kind of customary for people to refuse a gift profusely before accepting it an then offer a gift in return (think eating out with friends and one offers to pay, "Please, let me!" "Oh, no, I couldn't!" "But I insist!" "Okay, but I'll pay for the next lunch then!")
And then, he promised her a candy and may have felt obligated to keep his promise to her.
In another situation it could be totally inappropriate and freaky, some dude sitting on a bench at a kiddie park handing out candy or something.









well said!


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## ceilydhmama (Mar 31, 2003)

I'm sorry that it felt uncomfortable to you.

I think it was quite sweet. My dd is often given random unsolicited gifts - or to put it in another way, she is often the recipient of random acts of kindness.

She has a lovely, open nature and people seem to enjoy having her around - as a result she is often given little gifts (free hot chocolates at coffee shops, free books, little toys, fruit at grocery stands etc...)

In turn she is evolving into a kind little girl who loves suprising her friends (and yes, strangers) with little acts of kindness - like the way your daughter enjoyed giving the rock.

While we need to teach our children to be safe I think we do them a disservice by teaching them to be afraid and paranoid. Instead, I try to look at the little gifts as a time to learn to be gracious, and teach her to feel good that she has made such a pleasant impression on a stranger.
Peace.


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## LovemyBoo (Oct 11, 2004)

I can't help but think that the point myself and others are trying to make is *not* "don't ever accept anything from strangers" but "listen to your gut".

If you are in a situation similar to the op's and your gut tells you, "this person is fine" than by all means, accept the candy. Ask your dc afterward how he/she felt about the person, if s/he like him right away or did he make s/he feel nervous? Help your dc figure out what those feelings may mean and how to deal with them. There's nothing wrong with explaining to a child, "Some people feel safe to Mommy and some don't. This person didn't feel safe to me so I had to go with that feeling."

What some of us are reacting to is the op did not feel the situation was a good one. She felt (op, please correct me if I'm wrong) that this man was not respecting her as a parent AND that she had to chase down her other child and could not moniter the situation as closely as she would have liked. Perhaps if it had just been her and her dd and she could be right there without divided attention things could have been different. She reacted based upon her gut feeling and the fact that she couldn't give the situation the attention it deserved.

Now, if the op is advocating never accept anything from any stranger under any circumstance...well that's a different thread. In *this* situation she listened to her gut and erred on the side of her child's safety. I can't fault any parent for that, ever.


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## Free Thinker (Jan 1, 2003)

I'm in the "you overreacted" crowd. I think that parents are way too paranoid these days. There are wierdos, and we do steer clear of them when we get the uneasy feeeling, but this guy sounds like a nice guy who likes kids, and wanted your DD to get a "thank you" for the rock. I don't see what you were worried about, seeing as how your DD picked the candy bar out herself?


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## Bernie (May 5, 2004)

Hmm, perhaps he shouldn't have been so insistent that you take the promised candy bar....but then maybe his convictions run as deep as alot of us here on this board. It sounds to me like you had your hands full and were a tad distracted. Maybe he didn't get the full impact of your no? The rest of us really can't judge. As I see it, environment would be a major factor. Movie store, sweet little girl offering a "gift". Perhaps he was so touched by the situation that he was moved to reciprocate in a manner that goes way back in time, with a sweet. I have been yelled at, spit at, kicked and totally disrespected by random kids in grocery stores and the like. If your daughter would have offered me a rock (and not thrown it at me!







) I probably would have been moved to offer to put her through college! Just goes to show, you reap what you sow. Good actions result in good consequences. If I were you, I probably wouldn't dwell on this long.


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## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MPJJJ*
Wow, yea, I think that you overreacted, and I hope that you don't pass that paranioa onto your DD. There is a time and a place to be scared, but this, from your description, was not the time and place.

I agree. This "stranger-danger" stuff makes me sick. If we really want to ensure our children are safe, let them interact with strangers and DON'T let them interact with people you know, since that is where the vast majority of abuse comes from. The media doesn't help, either, since they like to report the rare occurances of children being abducted/molested by strangers, but they don't report the thousands of incidents of abuse/molestion that occur every day from people known by the child and the child's family.

Personally, I have never been abused by a stranger, and I have received plenty of abuse from people I knew as a child. Furthermore, every time I asked for help from a stranger, I was treated kindly and helped. Hell, it was a stranger that stepped between me and my father, keeping him from hitting me.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Quote:

What some of us are reacting to is the op did not feel the situation was a good one. She felt (op, please correct me if I'm wrong) that this man was not respecting her as a parent
And that's all that really matters here. Paranoia aside, the man, regardless of his intentions, did not honor her polite refusal and, in fact, FOLLOWED HER TO THE CAR WITH THE CANDY! Whatever his intentions, that was just going too far! If the OP had this reaction after the man had quietly let the matter drop while still inside the store after she had said "no, thanks..." then fine, that would be an overreaction. But he didn't let it drop, he was over-insistent, and at the very least rude in his persistence. She went with her gut and we, as mothers, should respect that.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

He probably figuired your protest were polite decourum and that put him in an akward position of having promised your child something and you not allowing him to make good on his promise. Its a tricky place to be. I would have allowed my chidlren to accept it. after all we knew where it came from and I was there. I do not have problems with people offering my children something especially in a sitution like that. if I had an issue with the gift given I would have delt with it, been the bad guy whatever but I would never tell someone thier gift or expression of what ever was not good enough. I would graciously accepted, said thank you, and then decide later if it was Ok for my child to have it.


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicole lisa*
When he was an infant and we were at a Burger King in Toronto a man who was eating with his family (older kids) came over, pinched his cheeks and proceeded to carry him around the place for a while. It's really common where I've lived.

Well, I don't care how common that is. I would never allow that; I would never allow a stranger to have full control of my child. How did you know he wasn't going to walk out with your baby?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicole lisa*
I like it this way. As a few PPs wrote, the idea of teaching stranger=bad is dangerous. We need things from strangers sometimes and more often than not it's someone in the family's close circle that will bring harm to a child. We don't teach children that enough.

I know that we need to teach our children how to interact with strangers. I *DID* bring up Gavin de Becker's book, which I've read and practice. But I don't think de Becker says you should let your child accept candy from strangers. Yes, sometimes we need things from strangers, such as change (cashier), a question answered (where are the pickles? what time is it?), a food order placed (waiter/waitress)... but we never need *candy* from strangers. So that is not a proactive way of teaching anything about strangers.


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## ilex (Apr 30, 2002)

Wow, so much to respond to...I just got back to this thread and was floored to see how many responses there were! It was great to read all the different responses though, whether I agreed with them or not. Interesting to see people's viewpoints on this. I have been thinking about this all day.

First off, I have been wondering in what other circumstances would I have been okay with this? If it was another mom? If it was an employee? etc etc, and I think in all these circumstances I would say no, firstly because she doesn't eat chocolate bars, second because I am very hesitant to have her learn that an act of generosity on her part should be met with someone "reciprocating" it by buying her some candy. I think she would have been even more appreciative of the reciprocated kindness by just simply talking about the rocks etc. After the candy was offered the act was forgotten about and the candy was the sole focus, this I don't like. On top of a stranger buying her candy. Even if we are at a store or Dr, etc and someone offers to give her something if it is candy I often say no thank you. BUT if it is a sticker or a small toy or something I will often say yes...SO this had me thinking. Initially it was the offer of candy, then it really bothered me that he kept persisting and even after I said no thank you, he whispered to her, just pick something...that is totally wrong in my books. I think what got my back up initially is that he asked HER not ME. In every other circumstance, in other stores etc, the people ask me, not my 4 yo daughter. And the fact that he did this, and kept persisting, really really bothered me, and as Oceanbaby nailed it I felt like I was compromising some safety or protective issue by being polite and not saying "look buddy, I said NO! " Not that I would ever be that rude in such a seemingly innocent situation, but I wanted to!!

I do believe that this guy was being genuinely kind and did want to reciprocate it in some way, and didn't quite know the right way to do it, but he should've respected my disapproval. Regardless, people will do what they will, and this person did have an Irish accent, so maybe his culture says differently...I don't know his background, I didn't feel threatened and neither did dd, but it was uncomfortable because of his persistence. The only thing I can do is take hold of what my dd understands and how I deal with it. And as Corvus has said she is young, it is not her responsibility, she is still trying to figure out social dynamics. I don't want her to be less friendly, she is very social, she talks to everyone, and I think it was very sweet of her to want to give others something that was special to her, regardless of whether or not she knew them. She is a child. She actually wanted to give them to other children but the only child that was there said no...I would never want to dissuade her from her instinctive kindness, as where do you draw the line. To her it is not black and white. If I say no to giving someone a rock because she really wants to be giving, how does she interpret that? And at the same time I can't say since you want to be kind you should accept a kindness back even if it is candy, because that is not right either (to me).

The difference is that this man was an adult. I think he should know that offering something is wonderful, fine, (to the parent!) but if the mother of the child says no ten times, take the hint. Obviously he was uncomfortable, nervous, wanting to repay it and not realizing that he already was just by being a nice person and saying thank you and truly appreciating it. What I should have done was to be more definitive and give a solid reason because it was obvious he wasn't taking no for an answer, and instead of saying to dd that we should never accept things from someone we don't know, and say no thank you, I should have said that when someone offers her something to ask me first and do not take something without asking me (or dad, or grandma etc). It is not her responsibility at this point. And I shouldn't have felt bad about her picking something, I think she kind of panicked about it anyway grabbing the first thing close to her.

And we also did talk about how it was a kind gesture on his part, but that he should have asked me first, and that I just felt funny and not very safe taking the chocolate bar from him. I really wasn't acting overly paranoid or freaked out, it all happened very fast and I was feeling like I wasn't being freaked out enough!







Anyway, I don't think it is bad for my daughter to see her mom being hesitant and cautious around a situation that made me uncomfortable. I was working on gut and my gut said very firmly that is wasn't okay to accept this, and I think it is because he passed by me and went straight to my young daughter. And this freaked me out. Yes, it was a safe environment, it was probably just a nice gesture, and I may be overthinking it even, but it felt wrong. For whatever reason, it did.

It could also be my mommy senses are on high alert right now because I am a newly single mom in a new city and I am just really cautious being the only one now. But honestly I don't think it would have made a difference if it was just me or xh was there too.

And LovemyBoo said it right. I did feel bad for not being able to give my full attention to the situation and I felt that whether he inteded to or not he was taking advantage of that and hence my daughter which freaked me out. EVEN IF he was trying to do something nice. The way he went about it was wrong and THAT is what made me feel get my back up about it.

I'm sure there are a zillion more things to add and respond to but my kids are clawing at me. Be back soon.

As you were...


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Don't move to Italy-- total stangers hand children candy. The Portuguese are pretty bad, too. Your child will get something in every shop, pretty much. And no rocks required.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Haven't read all the replies so sorry if I repeat ..
I think you handled it fine. You accepted it graciously so you wouldn't offend the giver (who sounds like he was being genuine) AND you then spoke to your dd about it.
Personally, I wouldn't have been offended by the offer to get her a little *gift*but I would be pi**ed that it was CANDY. I would've just said something like, "Thanks but she's not allowed to eat candy."
Sounds likr the guy was so pushy you didn't really have an easy
*out*!


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

I think that Gavin DeBecker's book "The Gift of Fear" (which I personally liked better than "Protecting the Gift") should be required reading for everyone. It does a great job of explaining that if you are afraid of everything, thinking everyone could be a possible threat, the subtle clues that danger IS there will slip right by you.

And though I think we should listen to our instincts, SOME people's instincts are hypersensitive due to abuse or what have you - they perceive threats when they aren't necessarily there.

I think what we need to consider is what message do we want to ingrain in our kids about the rest of the people that live around us. Do we want them to trust us and only us; the rest of the world is out to get them? We can possibly save them from the few people who would hurt them - and in the process, keep them from many, many people who would be kind, love and support them in whatever big or small ways.

I want my kids to believe that most people are good. I also want them to trust that gut feeling when something is wrong.

I think we find/gravitate towards what we expect. I expect people to generally be good, and I have been lucky to have many wonderful people in my life. I would never want to model for my children that every person they encounter will potentially hurt them. That is a really sad way to approach the world; I don't want that for my kids.


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## TortelliniMama (Mar 11, 2004)

I don't believe it's really reasonable for any of us to say, "You overreacted to the situation," because *we weren't there in your shoes*. We didn't experience any of the nonverbal cues that you did, including cues that were so subtle that it doesn't even occur to you to write them in your account. Let's face it, in a situation like that, the only way you could ever truly know that your concern was caused by reality would be if you picked up the paper in a few days and saw this guy's face next to a story about how he was arrested for abduction or whatever. I think deBecker talks about this in Protecting the Gift -- more often than not, you don't get positive feedback when your intuition is correct and you listen to it, because you've avoided the danger. Obviously even if this guy *had* had bad intentions, he wasn't going to come up to your car afterwards, hand you a chocolate bar, and say, "Boy, it's a good thing you didn't turn your back for a few seconds longer. I would have been out the door with her!" And even though you may feel like you didn't follow your intuition, because you weren't firm enough in your no's and because you finally took the candy, it's possible that if you had just thought, "oh, what a nice guy," then you might have allowed yourself to get totally distracted from their interaction because you had bought into him being a "nice guy."

Yes, it's true that life would be pretty miserable if we went around assuming that everyone in the world is out to hurt us and our children. But when our intuition starts going off, we need to listen. Obviously you don't want to react by, say, pulling a weapon on every person who offers your kid a treat, but being on alert when something inside of you says, "This isn't right," is not a bad thing.


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Well written, TortelliniMama.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I don't think that you necessarily "overreacted"...I think your reaction was normal and typical, especially for our culture. I think moms our age are conditioned to be wary of candy from strangers (BIG cultural bogeyman stereotype!), and there's always going to be a little niggling on our consciousness because of it.

I DO think that you were unwise to allow your child to give things to other people if you had no intention of allowing them to reciprocate (or if you can't handle when they want to). It's not fair to them, and that in itself will send mixed messages to your kid.

As for the following you to your car...I wasn't there, so I have only my own experience to go on in this. To be honest, that kind of open, naive action reminds me of the guys at my group home that I used to manage. They were all developmentally disabled to some extent. Two of them you would NEVER know it by appearance or speech (but they were very trusting and innocent, almost like big kids, which tended to provoke bad reactions in people when they had interactions with them...because it is 'weird' to meet an adult like that and even if you don't know why it bothers you it does for a lot of people). I can see either of them doing what you described. I also think of one of my guys in particular because Blockbuster was his favorite place to go--he'd walk there every day after lunch to pick out a new movie and return his old one, and chat up the clerks there. So it could be that his actions were innocent. Just a thought.

But again, you wouldn't have had that interaction at all (probably) if you hadn't allowed your daughter to hand things out. It's true that he should have accepted no (though I agree with others that there's a WIDE variety of culturally appropriate responses!). If you want to be consistent, then you should teach (and model) appropriate giving/helping of strangers. Holding the door, yes. Please/thank you, yes. Helping someone pick up something they dropped, yes. If someone needs a couple of pennies and you have the change, yes. Giving out presents, no. Or whatever rules you think are most appropriate.

I think it's less important whether or not you overreacted (it is what it is, and it's done regardless), but how/if you will change what you allow/do in the future.


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## MAMom (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *merpk*
To the OP, once you said no (which you did) and he ignored that (which he did), he overstepped all sorts of boundaries and there is no reason to be polite.









:







:







:

Sounds like a very creepy situation to me...and it sounds like you handled it very well.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Quote:

She actually wanted to give them to other children but the only child that was there said no...
So, just out of curiousity, how did your daughter respond to the child who said no? Did she follow the child around and insist that s/he accept the rock? Or, did she graciously accept the "no" and move on?

Just wondering...I'm still stunned that so many people think it was fine for a grown man to ignore you, the parent, and continue to offer your child the candy (whispering, no less...).


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## tinyshoes (Mar 6, 2002)

I wonder what people's reactions here would be if the genders in this specific scenario were changed.

Would it be less wierd? more wierd?

What if the candy-giving stranger had been a woman? What would people's responses be in response to that scenario?

What if the parent of the young rock-giving girl had been a man? Would that guy have taken no for an answer? After the second no?

What about that kind man following the girl's father to the car--that scenario seems a very agressive one, to me, in my mind's eye. What are a man's intentions, if he follows another man out of a store and into a parking lot--regardless of the circunstances? It is a very agressive move for a man to do that to another man in our culture, whether you're pickin' up a dude at the gay bar, or picking a fight at the biker bar...

I really started thinking about this gender inequity, when I think about how unbalanced our USA culture is, in that we let men behave differently than we let women behave. Despite all this "women's lib", we're still wading around in the dregs of a very patriarchal society.

If that stranger had been a woman ignoring the "nos" would it have caused the OP to even post about it? Maybe.

Would we be disucssing the potential dangers in that scenario? Maybe....or probably a "yeah, jeez, some people just need to mind their own business"-type attitude---rather than one wherein the potentials for abduction or worse are mentioned.

If the OP had been a man, I don't think the stranger would have pushed the issue after the first no (unless, of course, Tigerchild, if the stranger man was dev disabled--good point.) That's the proof that this culture is sexist; the woman is expected to submit to the whims of the man. Even dumb stuff like a candy bar at the store with every good intention behind it. And most certainly devestating stuff, like frat party date rape.


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## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Corvus*
Well, I don't care how common that is. I would never allow that; I would never allow a stranger to have full control of my child. How did you know he wasn't going to walk out with your baby?

Because it was a packed place, because his wife and three children (ages 7-11) were sitting having something to eat as well, because I had my parents with me and because I have great instincts and I knew. What he did was nothing out of the ordinary for his culture and it was appreciated.

BF and I were just saying the other day as we struggled a bit to eat our own meals while out with DS that it's too bad DS is too big for people to scoop up and carry around while we sat and ate and looked on. It's not as easy now.


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## ceilydhmama (Mar 31, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicole lisa*
Because it was a packed place, because his wife and three children (ages 7-11) were sitting having something to eat as well, because I had my parents with me and because I have great instincts and I knew. What he did was nothing out of the ordinary for his culture and it was appreciated.

This happens here too and I love it. We have often been in restaurants and had people from other tables entertain dd at great length. I love the idea that it takes a village to raise a child and I am glad I live in a place (for the most part) that reflects this concept.

Since I returned to Vancouver I found parenting a far less isolating experience. It is fine if dd has a meltdown in a store because more often than not people intervene to offer distractions and positive words. When she is behaving beautifully, strangers respond by telling her so and offering her little treats.

Her experince of being a child in our culture is one of being loved and cherished - by her community, by strangers. I personally think that this is what childhood should be. It has nothing to do with chocolate bars and everything to do with being open to the people around us and assuming their intentions towards us are good.

I am also guessing that my dd has so many of these neat experiences because I am open to her having them. I was raised in a very child-centred village so I am completely comfortable with the idea of other people enjoying my child's presence.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

If he _whispered_ to the OP's dd to pick something, that does make it sound a bit more strange to me. But, that wasn't mentioned in the original post.

I also didn't get the same feeling as many of you did about the OP being followed to her car. She said the car was parked right in front of the store, and the man was right behind her dd. If it takes the OP as long as it takes me to get the kids in the car, then it would seem he simply left the store and walked up to her car on the way out. This doesn't conjur up the same mental image (for me, at least) as someone following her across a parking lot. I obviously wasn't there to pick up on any vibe going on, but the original post just left me with the impression that this fellow had made an offer to the little girl and didn't want to go back on it.


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## RosaJane (Jan 3, 2006)

Haven't read any responses yet...

I really think that only you can be the judge of whether or not you are over reacting. You can't really help the feeling you have in the pit of your stomach.

I will say, however, that in my opinion you should teach your children to be aware of strangers, but also realize that most folks are just being nice. In my situation, I have noticed that when we first moved into this neighborhood, my dh would say "hi" to the kids who were playing around, and the parents were reeling with suspicion and looks. I really felt that they were going way way overboard-its not like he was trying to entice them into our yard or house, just telling them his name and answering their questions. To this day I have felt uncomfortable chatting with any of these people.

My dd is going through serious fear of strangers right now. She is normally very happy go lucky, but will cling to my leg if any men try to talk to her. I want her to have a healthy suspicion of strangers, not outright fear.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

I have a hard time grasping that some of you think the OP was overreacting and that the man in question was "just being kind."

I have a zero tolerance policy for people who can't take polite no's for an answer. I had it before I ever read Gavin de Becker, and feel happily justified now that I have read his stuff.









For perspective - I have a very social dd and I have allowed stangers to give her things. She has recieved stuffed toys from haggard looking men more than once. I am not paranoid and I don't walk around jumping at shadows. She strikes up conversations with homeless people, and I don't shut her down.

On the other hand, as dd's mother, I have the right to decline a gift from a stranger. I don't need to justify it. If the person in question cannot respect this, I cut the interaction off politely but firmly.

The OP didn't want her child having the candy. It doesn't matter WHY. I understand the second offer on the man's part - asking twice is part of an often performed social dance. But following her out to her car? Persisting to that degree?







I would have been PISSED and given my personality I probably would have told him it was innapropriate and disrespectful to persist in the matter. There's a lesson for dc to watch.







[I do want to add that if I felt someone were truly unstable I wouldn't chastise them. I'd only do so if I thought a person wasn't going to knife me for the feedback.]

Given that the man followed her to her car, I think the OP was pretty darn correct to have declined his initial offerings. Her spidey sense said "This man has no sense of proportion and lacks social skills. This is weird." And it *was* weird.

People who are "just" nice respect boundaries. People who want to ingratiate themselves under the pretense of being nice don't. The second category of people aren't all axe murderers and puppy haters - most of them aren't even self-aware enough to realize that they are being rude. Nonetheless, they aren't just being nice. They're just being self-serving.


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## ilex (Apr 30, 2002)

Dechen,







thanks. (not that I feel I am being attacked in any way, but the reply was exactly what I was thinking)

I guess I also find it difficult to me to say it is okay to accept treats or rewards for being nice, for an act of generosity or for behaving "appropriately". That isn't how it works for us, that was a big reason why I initially declined the offer. She does it without expecting something of monetary value or reward value in return, and I would like to keep it this way for as long as I can







I was actually trying to remember the last time this happened, that she offered some such thing and what the response was, and I actually couldn't remember a time where she has done so, other than the odd flower at a park or something, but most of the time it is to another child, or perhaps the parent of a child, but never has it happened (that I can recall) to an adult we didn't know. In all of the other cases it was just met with a simple thank you. So this is a new one.

Missy, the child said no and she said okay, put the rock back in her bucket and moved on. She stood there for a second, probably wondering why not? but didn't say anything. Then she asked where more kids were, because she wanted to share her rocks with them.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dechen*
Given that the man followed her to her car, I think the OP was pretty darn correct to have declined his initial offerings. Her spidey sense said "This man has no sense of proportion and lacks social skills. This is weird." And it *was* weird.

People who are "just" nice respect boundaries. People who want to ingratiate themselves under the pretense of being nice don't. The second category of people aren't all axe murderers and puppy haters - most of them aren't even self-aware enough to realize that they are being rude. Nonetheless, they aren't just being nice. They're just being self-serving.

Yes, but her sense also seems to have told her that he wasn't a *threat*. That's why I brought up the idea that perhaps the reason why he gave off the weird vibe is because of disability. (I am NOT saying that people thinking that are bad--all it means is that the people who pick up on those vibes are being naturally self-aware and observant!) Not that it changes the interaction much. I think the situation was handled with dignity by the OP towards the other person.

And let's face it, we can't always think of the perfect thing to say in the moment! It probably would have been better to be direct (but still kind) "I'm sorry, but DD can't have the candy. Please don't offer again, I really don't want her to have it! She just wants to have the fun of giving her rocks away, and it's so nice of you to accept." blah blah blah. But you know what, when your 'Something Not Right' sense is going off, you do what you think is best.

There's only so much you can do/ascertain from a two minute interaction in a video store, and the OP handled it as best she could. Personally, I think she handled it fine. She was kind to the person (that she thought wasn't a threat, but was a little 'off'), she didn't allow her DD to have the candy, and she got to talk to her DD about the situation.

Now that you've had time to think/process, Bellasmum, are you pretty much happy with how things went? I don't think that you should have to feel bad because you didn't shout "no" in the guy's face or didn't punch him out at your car door. Are you comfortable with how you handled things in retrospect? If so, that's what matters!


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dechen*
People who are "just" nice respect boundaries. People who want to ingratiate themselves under the pretense of being nice don't.


Yes. That. Precisely.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

The story as related in the OP doesn't sound too outside the bounds of "normal" to me. I would have been annoyed (I'm easily annoyed







), but not upset. People push food on kids and adults all the time (yes, annoying), and the fact that he gave the unwanted candy bar to the mother and not the child is a good sign. Now, if the OP had bad vibes, that is different, and that is something to talk with dc about (tell her how to listen to her intuition in dealing with people etc).

Really I think the OP handled it just as I would except that I wouldn't let dc hand out presents to stangers if I would be upset by strangers interacting with my dc.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Don't have time to read the responses, so forgive me if someone mentioned this.

Run, do not walk, to read _Protecting the Gift_ . It gives an example of how a child was abducted (and never again found) with a similar incident. The author says one of the signs is that the person hears you REFUSE and then DOES IT ANYWAY. He says that you should say what's on your mind-- women are taught to be polite, but instead of saying "Thank you" you say what you REALLY think-- Why are you giving me this when I said NO?

People are way too concerned about not offending anyone. Was this man concerned about the fact that he was blantantly ignoring you? Obviously not. He crossed the line. We'll never know why, we'll never know the intent. Who cares? Now you are prepared for next time.

Something similar happened to me, and while I'm mad I let it happen, I thank God for learning the lesson the easy way-- my DD is still safe. I'm so glad yours is, too.








mama!!!! Listen to your voice!

ETA: Oh, and in our case, it WAS a woman. Didn't make it ANY better.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mizelenius*
...Run, do not walk, to read _Protecting the Gift_ . It gives an example of how a child was abducted (and never again found) with a similar incident...

I don't have the money to get the book right now (I've seen it recommended here several times, and definitely intend to read it) - would you mind telling me _how_ the child was abducted? I mean...the OP was right there...


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Can you get the book from the library? It is quite good. Anyway, to answer your question, IIRC, a woman was shoe shopping with her son and getting a little frustrated with him. A man stepped in and said, "Hey, I can watch him for you! while you shop!" or something similarly creepy. The mom said "uh, NO" thought he was weird, and then proceeded to shop without giving extra attention to her son. Who disappeared in seconds while she was browsing. I hated the stories in the book, they were terrifying. And he didn't blame her, but the point was that if someone gives you the creeps or acts inappropriately (I think in the anecdote, he kept offering even after she said No and walked away), don't continue as normal, pay attention to that feeling and pay attention to your kids. Just like the OP did. I don't think it matters if you are right there. I took from the book that he doesn't want you to walk around fearing abudction, because they are rare. But he didn't encourage you to not worry about it ever. I do need to reread it, but I recall him saying specifically that more people pay closer attention to their purses than their kids. I think it's true. I'm always afraid I'm confusing intuition with paranoia, but I do pay very close attention to my kids in public, even if I don't really fear abudction on a daily basis. No one has ever creeped my out so far.

Anyway, a lot of people don't listen to No, and they're not always evil. Sometimes I think people just try to be extra nice to kids, and they don't know that it freaks the parent out. But it's still creepy and it's still wrong. He didn't listen, period. I think it's normal to get spooked by that. Maybe you didn't suspect him of being dangerous, but it's still unsettling for me when someone is not respecting my saying No. I'm always nervously stammering along that line of thinking they're harmless/staying polite, and wondering when I jump into I SAID NO!


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

StormBride, go borrow the book from your library. It should seriously be required reading for all parents. I do not exagerrate when i say that.

The story is too long for me to go into detail here. You really need to read it. de Becker goes over all the techniques that predators use to gain your trust and therefore get control of your child. That way, you can learn to recognize those techniques as they're happening. Hopefully you'll never need to recognize them, of course.

And the OP wasn't "right there." She was distracted by her younger child, who kept running away from her. That is exactly what a predator looks for (among other things)...


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## tinyshoes (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Corvus*
StormBride, go borrow the book from your library. It should seriously be required reading for all parents. I do not exagerrate when i say that.

Heck, pop over to Amazon right this moment, and read the couple of pages that they offer online. That will give you a good taste of the book.


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## ilex (Apr 30, 2002)

Tigerchild, there are things I would do differently now, like be more in your face with the NO's and giving a reason why, which would prove that I meant what I said and I had reason behind it rather than it possibly be taken as a polite manner to say aw shucks no thanks but really mean okay but I don't want to seem greedy. Not that I was that passive, but I would definitely be firmer and not smile so much next time. It's not that I mind her interacting with strangers, in fact I don't think anything that happened was her fault or wrongdoing, he was out of line. And unfortunately I may dissuade her from sharing things with *stranger* adults for awhile...









And just to add, I actually was right there, and she didn't leave my sight for a second. Nor does she ever when we are out. Really. I am very paranoid and cautious about this. I have "The gift of fear" and "protecting the gift" and I intend to start reading them this weekend.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe*
I wouldn't let dc hand out presents to stangers if I would be upset by strangers interacting with my dc.

I think this is really an important point. If your child says hello to someone, they usually (and we can expect) say hello back. She gave him a rock; he wanted to reciprocate with the nearby candy bar. I can see where any number of people would respond that way. She is a darling little girl who is being kind; I know you want her to learn/experience kindness not for what you get but just because. That is great. But don't rob other people (kids or adults) of their own acts of kindness in response to her.

In your last post, you said "I am very paranoid". In the title of the thread, you ask "am I overreacting?" I am ALL for listening to your instincts; it just seems that you might be overly sensitive and perceiving more threats than are there? I am not trying in any way to be down on you; you did what felt right at the time. I just think it was an overreaction to someone being nice to your dd.

Sometimes we argue when we don't understand the other side. Once when I was a nanny, my beloved four year old boy and I were in the grocery store. He wanted some kind of a treat that I didn't buy as we already had a treat in the cart. He was mad and reached out (from the belted seat part of the cart), grabbed a glass jar of applesauce from the shelf and threw it on the ground. We went directly up to the register, told them there was broken glass on aisle 3, and that we would be back so he could pay for it, just as soon as we ran home to get his money. The cashier INSISTED we didn't have to pay for it. But he did it on PURPOSE and I wanted him to pay for it. I finally had to speak to the manager as the cashier just wouldn't agree to take the money. The manager also refused repeatedly, telling me they had insurance that covered this type of thing, etc. But it was not an accident and I wanted him to pay for the damage he purposefully caused. I had to get REALLY firm and direct with the manager before he would agree to let him pay. We went home, got the money, came back and he paid it to the manager. I didn't lecture him or berate him in any way; he just paid for the applesauce. But I had to spell it out to the manager - I am trying to teach him that this is not acceptable; I don't care if there is insurance for this. The manager was looking at it from a "good customer service" type of way - and it is such a tiny amount to this big chain store. But it was a good lesson that he learned for the very cheap price of $2.39 or whatever it was.

Totally different from the OP's issue but I just think that the man in the video store didn't realize WHY you were saying no. Sure, no should be enough regardless of reason but I really think he was just trying to be kind. He may have interpreted it as "oh no, you don't have to"/"but I want to"/"really, no thank you"/and he can probably see her little face fall at the thought of not getting the candy she thought she was. Maybe he felt badly and didn't understand that you were perceiving him as a threat in the middle of the day in your local video store line. Nothing in your posts makes me feel oddly about what he did at all.


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## Alkenny (May 4, 2004)

I think the bigger issue is that after you repeatedly told him no, he still did it anyways, but I don't think he meant any harm. I think it's a sad state we're in when we automatically assume the worst in a person, and not that he was just touched by your child and wanted to do kind in return. (Not that YOU'RE in a sad state, but society in general automatically assuming everyone is a bad guy...though I understand where that comes from.)


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten*
But don't rob other people (kids or adults) of their own acts of kindness in response to her.

A strange man following a mother with her two young children to her car is NOT KIND.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mizelenius*
A strange man following a mother with her two young children to her car is NOT KIND.

Yeah, that.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I read the excerpt online yesterday. I'd have ridden back from the theater with my friends in the first place. I've always trusted my instincts (and my fear) about people, and so far, I've done fine.

The guy in the shoe store - I'd have reported him. A total stranger offering to _watch_ my child, and not take no for an answer. Even without a bad gut feeling, the guy's trouble. It's like the guy who wanted me to get in his car because he was bad at following directions. I actually think it might have been true - but anybody who'd _encourage_ a 19-year-old woman to ignore her own safety rules is dangerous, even if they're not a creep. If I'd gone with him and been okay, I'd have been that much more likely to do it again.

I really didn't see anything in the OP's original post that seemed like she had a bad gut feeling about the guy. She only seemed annoyed (understandably) that he wouldn't drop it. And, I had a different take on that than the OP did. Maybe I didn't read it very well. She did say in a later post that he _whispered_ to her dd to pick something, which concerned me.

DS1 has always been taught to go nuts if someone tries to walk off with him. I told him long, long ago that screaming, punching, kicking and biting were perfectly acceptable and I taught him the "you're not my daddy/mommy" line. He was, thankfully, never in a situation where it was necessary - I hope the teaching would have clicked. I always taught him some basic precautions (eg. don't get in a stranger's car, don't _go_ somewhere with a stranger, etc.) and to follow his gut feelings about people.

I did just re-read the OP, and she was there to respond at each stage of things, so, while her attention was obviously diverted by her ds, I certainly saw no evidence of a "gap" long enough for this guy to haul her dd off right past the clerks without the OP noticing. Even if he was a weirdo, she was too on the ball for her dd to just disappear.

I did take one useful idea from Amazon re: "Protecting the Gift", though. I'm going to keep photocopies of my kid's pics in my purse...just in case dd bolts and disappears in a store or something. She's awfully fast.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Several people have mentioned this guy following the OP to her car. Where was that? I must have missed it.


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
Several people have mentioned this guy following the OP to her car. Where was that? I must have missed it.

It's in her first post, right in the middle of the long paragraph.


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
The guy in the shoe store - I'd have reported him. A total stranger offering to _watch_ my child, and not take no for an answer. Even without a bad gut feeling, the guy's trouble. It's like the guy who wanted me to get in his car because he was bad at following directions. I actually think it might have been true - but anybody who'd _encourage_ a 19-year-old woman to ignore her own safety rules is dangerous, even if they're not a creep. If I'd gone with him and been okay, I'd have been that much more likely to do it again.

I don't think it was a shoe store, so I'm guessing that the excerpt you read did not include this story. But there is a lot more to the story than that. Plus, my impression in the book is that the incident happened when people were still pretty naive about this stuff.


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## tinyshoes (Mar 6, 2002)

I've highlighted the car part from the OP in red.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellasmum*
Okay this is making me crazy, I haven't been able to talk to anyone about it yet as it was late so I really need to vent about it or else I may throw up.

Tonight me and the kids went to the video store to rent a movie. We were standing in line and ds started pulling me away, so as I was attempting to wrangle him back in to line my 4.5 yr old dd stayed in line, I was about two feet away. She had a bucket full of rocks which she had picked just prior to going to the store and was asking some people if they would like one.







So she turned to the man behind her and asked him if she would like a rock, he bent down and was very nice and said oh! thank you, those are very nice rocks, etc. they were talking for a few seconds and then he said that in return he would like to buy her a treat...(they were standing right beside the chocolate bars) I turned and said oh! no no no no, that is fine,you don't need to do that and smiled. ds ran away again and he told her to pick something, which she did to my nauseous heart, and he said he would like to get it for her, I quickly came back and said No thank you, she was just happy to give the rock away to someone, smiled and went to rent our movies. That was that, dd waved bye to him and we left. We were parked right in front of the store and while we were getting in he came up to me quite shyly and said, I would really like her to have this, I told her I would get it for her, he quickly handed me the chocolate bar and said to dd It was nice to meet you, share it with your mom and brother okay? and he left. I was kind of stunned and said thanks but you really shouldn't have, even though I had the bloody bar in my hand. And there I was. We didn't eat it, and I immediately had a very important heart to heart with dd about accepting things from people we don't know, or even allowing someone we don't know to buy us things, we talked about the situation and how next time if someone asks her to pick something out like that just to say no thank you. But oh my god, hyppocrite!! I just took the bar! I feel dirty, I feel nauseous, this whole thing REALLY bothered me! From start to finish. I think honestly the guy just felt touched that she gave him the rock and didn't know what to do. He was fairly young and obviously didn't know how inappropriate that was to offer such a thing, and it really floored me that he did. I honestly didn't know how to deal with it! And it all happened so fast, between me trying to keep the kids together and get the movies and stay in line and say no thank to this guy firmly yet politely it was chaos! And since then I have just felt so rotten about this! I should have said right away very firmly and point blank, no thanks she is not allowed to accept things from people she doesn't know. Or some such thing. I am always TOO bloody polite, worried about offending someone, well not always but something passively weird like this just kind of throws me! Ack!

Anyway, thank you for letting me vent, I will never let anything of this sort ever happen again. Even though it may have been totally innocent it was still really kind of creepy and it really freaked me out that dd picked something. I feel like a crappy crappy mom.blah.

Am I over reacting? Not reacting strongly enough? I might need some help with perspective here...


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## MsChatsAlot (Sep 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellasmum*
I turned and said oh! no no no no, that is fine,you don't need to do that and smiled.
.....and he said he would like to get it for her, I quickly came back and said No thank you, she was just happy to give the rock away to someone, smiled and went to rent our movies.

I admit I have not read all the pages. I stopped somewhere in the middle, so I apologize if my point has already been made.

To me, this was a communication issue. What you wrote above, I would interpret as "oh, I don't want you to go out of your way or spend your money." It does not seem like a NO to me, it seems more like a polite or nicety that we do which really doesn't mean no, it just allows the person an out if they choose.

It would have been very different if you had said, "No. My daughter is not allowed to accept things from stranger." or "No, please leave us alone." or "No, my child is not allowed to eat sugar." These, to me are clear messages. What you said to him was not, so it is understandable why he persisted. It's quite a common language game we play.

I am impressed that a young man had the decency and courage to do something nice for a young child and follow through with his promise. I don't think for one minute he thought that you'd be freaked out by it. He was just playing with a child that approached him in kindness and sharing.

I think that this is a good example of following your child's lead. She obviously had no red flags about him or she wouldn't have approached him. I use that as a strong indicator for how I feel unless I am completely unnerved by someone.

But, honestly, I think the best way to avoid a situation like this in the future is to have clear, honest communication. Make sure that the message you are saying is the message you are sending.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Corvus*
I don't think it was a shoe store, so I'm guessing that the excerpt you read did not include this story. But there is a lot more to the story than that. Plus, my impression in the book is that the incident happened when people were still pretty naive about this stuff.

I didn't read that excerpt...the one I read was about a mom and her child at a movie. I thought _you_ said a shoe store in your post. Sorry about that.

That's very possible. I've never been naive about it, because my mom wasn't. But, it's true that our society as a whole was much more naive in this area years ago.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tinyshoes*
I've highlighted the car part from the OP in red.

I'd read that part already. Where did he follow her to her car.

He was behind them in line. She was, presumably, putting her kids in their carseats. She was parked right in front of the store. I don't see where he followed her anywhere.

In some ways, it's a bit odd that he went ahead and bought the candy. But, the fact that he handed it to the OP leaves me to feel that he just felt that he _should_ give the little girl something in return for the rock. He may even have felt that he was encouraging her to continue to be so generous (I think that backfires, but many people don't).

Without having been there to know what my own gut would have said (the single biggest factor, imo), I just don't think this particular incident was that big a deal. The OP's post didn't really leave me feeling that she had a strong, negative _gut_ feeling about it.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Corvus*
I don't think it was a shoe store, so I'm guessing that the excerpt you read did not include this story. But there is a lot more to the story than that. Plus, my impression in the book is that the incident happened when people were still pretty naive about this stuff.

The incident I was referring to was when the mom was looking at shoes.

Quote:

The guy in the shoe store - I'd have reported him. A total stranger offering to watch my child, and not take no for an answer.
I would like to think I would have, too, but I think it's different when you're in the situation. It happened so fast-- the mom was right there. She even saw him with the man and ran after them. But in that instant, he was gone. I think it's easy to blame or say "I would have," but hopefully none of us will have to find out. I sometimes can't see my DD for an instant (when the baby blocks my view in the sling) and I panic, but DD is still young. This boy was 8 or 9-- can I be sure that I will NEVER be distracted while we're out, even when DD is older? I don't know. Thankfully, I feel more prepared now that I've read the book.

Bottom line, though, I think one of the scariest things (as a parent) is the realization that you don't have control over everything, but at least you can be prepared.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mizelenius*
A strange man following a mother with her two young children to her car is NOT KIND.

But she said she was parked right in front of the video store. My Blockbuster has eight to ten parking spaces just outside the doors, facing the store. You wouldn't exactly be following someone - you pass those spots leaving the store. The OP's comments to him could have been perceived as "oh no, you don't have to do that" when he really did want to do something kind for the child, had already made the verbal offer which I assume the child heard, and I assume he didn't want to go back on.

The OP wasn't clear that she was trying to teach "stranger danger" or whatever. If she had said directly "no thank you, I am teaching my child not to accept gifts from strangers" and he then persisted, I would agree that he was overstepping. BUT if that is the OP's comfort level, then she should not let her child give out gifts to strangers. Either they are ok to interact with or they are not.

You can't let her hand stuff out (be kind) but then get uncomfortable when they want to return the kindness. Would it have been upsetting if the man in the OP had a rock in his pocket and given that to the child? I assume not. Well, he didn't have a rock in his pocket to reciprocate with. There was a candy bar display nearby. Think of your dhs or fathers or brothers - could they have done the same thing as the man in the OP?

My opinion would all be different if the OP had said something like "as soon as we walked into the video store I had a weird feeling about him/he was looking at my dd in a funny way/I think he was the same man I saw in the park earlier today/etc". She never says she had a bad gut feeling; the child obviously didn't - and I know my kids sometimes avoid certain strangers (or people known to us) for whatever unknown reasons. She openly admits that she is "very paranoid". She was parked directly in front of the video store. It just doesn't add up to potential abduction or child poisoned by candy bar to me.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mizelenius*
I would like to think I would have, too, but I think it's different when you're in the situation. It happened so fast-- the mom was right there. She even saw him with the man and ran after them. But in that instant, he was gone.

I meant when he first made the offer and didn't take no for an answer. We are more aware (and more paranoid...the dark side of the coin) these days, and that behaviour would really weird me out. I mean - who the hell offers to "watch" a stranger's child for them??


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten*
My opinion would all be different if the OP had said something like "as soon as we walked into the video store I had a weird feeling about him/he was looking at my dd in a funny way/I think he was the same man I saw in the park earlier today/etc". She never says she had a bad gut feeling; the child obviously didn't - and I know my kids sometimes avoid certain strangers (or people known to us) for whatever unknown reasons. She openly admits that she is "very paranoid". She was parked directly in front of the video store. It just doesn't add up to potential abduction or child poisoned by candy bar to me.

Thanks, Kirsten. You said what I wanted to say, but said it better. I just didn't get the impression that the OP had any real qualms about this guy, just the situation. And, I see the situation differently than she did.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

So if my child hands someone a rock, that person has the right to buy my child candy?

That sounds odd.

Maybe I don't want my child eating candy. Maybe I don't want my child eating non-organic, non-free trade candy. Maybe I don't want my child to think kindness is always about getting something in return. Maybe whatever.

The OP didn't scream "child molester" at him. She didn't lock herself in the car and call 911. She declined his offer to buy her kid candy (twice) and then was a little put off on when he forced the issue. He wasn't kind, he was rude. She wasn't hysterical, she was polite and reasonable. She even took the darn candy bar, which is much more polite than I would have been.

I think the man was probably harmless, but look at how easily a stranger can make mom the bad guy - down to the part where he handed mom the candy but told the little girl how she should share it. He was trying to bypass mom's authority and relate to the little girl. The implicit message is that HE is on the child's side and mom isn't. Innocently or not, I don't allow people to play those games with my kid. Ick.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I have no issue with how the OP handled it - none at all. I'm just a little boggled by the fact that she was upset that she'd been polite about it, and was so upset that she felt like she was going to throw up.

No - he doesn't have the "right" to buy the child a candy bar, but he may have felt that he had an _obligation_ to do so. Some people aren't good at accepting something and not offering something back, because of the way _they_ were raised.

If we allow our children to interact with other people, then our children are going to interact with other people. And, interaction is a two way street. The OP isn't the young man's mommy and it's not her job to teach _him_ how to interact with other people. She was polite, and used the incident as a teaching opportunity with her dd.

I'm just answering the OP's question. I don't think she over-reacted, but I really don't see what the issue is here.


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dechen*
I think the man was probably harmless, but look at how easily a stranger can make mom the bad guy - down to the part where he handed mom the candy but told the little girl how she should share it. He was trying to bypass mom's authority and relate to the little girl. The implicit message is that HE is on the child's side and mom isn't. Innocently or not, I don't allow people to play those games with my kid. Ick.

Well-worded, Dechen. I think de Becker talks about this tactic in his book as well.


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## tinyshoes (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dechen*
The OP didn't scream "child molester" at him. She didn't lock herself in the car and call 911.











You have a way with words!


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dechen*
So if my child hands someone a rock, that person has the right to buy my child candy?

That sounds odd.

Yes, it does, because you are twisting the words of the people who have brought up the interaction issue and perhaps combining it with the 'nice=giving candy' folks.

What people have been saying is that if you allow your child to give gifts to strangers, you should not be surprised (and should be prepared for) if they want to reciprocate. For some people, if they don't want that interaction at all, then they should not allow their child to give gifts to strangers. For others, that might be saying "I don't allow DD/DS to eat candy, but s/he loves knock knock jokes and s/he's heard all mine, do you have a good one?" Or kinda nod towards the 25 cent toy thingy, or whatever.

The candy, itself, is really and truly not the issue. The main issue seems to be interaction with the stranger, and then the stranger's persistance. Well, you can't really control the latter, but you CAN control the former (or at least have some alternatives in mind).

Surely you understand that's what people are saying, since they've basically said that directly. Or are you mixing up the folks who said "The guy was just trying to be nice" with those that said "Why are you freaking out over stranger interaction when you allowed your kid to initiate it?" Two very different issues there, at least in my opinion.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

This has been said, but I think it's not quite the same because she was being a kid- slightly naive, friendly. He is a grown up. My son has gotten overly friendly with people in line before, and I'll let him if I'm right there and he doesn't appear to be bothering them and isn't wandering off. They respond with a smile or some words, but they don't necessarily reciprocate his action exactly, and I think it'd be sorta weird if they did. If he handed them a take out menu, I wouldn't expect them to respond with a piece of candy on the counter in response or something.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dechen*
So if my child hands someone a rock, that person has the right to buy my child candy?

That sounds odd.

Maybe I don't want my child eating candy. Maybe I don't want my child eating non-organic, non-free trade candy. Maybe I don't want my child to think kindness is always about getting something in return. Maybe whatever.

they have a right to give/offer whatever they want. You have a right to refuse but in most cases I htink it is best to accept it and say thank you. if you have a problem with candy that is your deal and should not be used to make the giver feel bad. Does it make them any less generous because you think the gift is inadequate? not good enough for you? what are you teaching your child when you say "we can't accept that because we think it sucks".

I think the polite thing to do would be to have acccepted the gift, said thank you and then what you did with the candy bar was up to you. You could explain to your child why she can't have it. You can be the one who tells her no and explain why. Its not his issue. He generously accepted the little girls ofer of a rock and promised her something in return. He was put in an awkward spot to either break his promise of decide if the mothers protests were decourum of if for some reason she didn't want her child to have a treat. Since most people feel they must refuse a gift (why is this? ) when they haven't earned it he probably thought the refusal was just the standard "oph no no you don't have to, don't worry about it" well he wasn't worried about and he wasn't going out of his way.

I think as a society we need to be mre gracious gift accepters. I think this will make us more generous givers. but this is a tangent. It is hard for me but when someone gives me a gift (unless I generally feel like I am crossing a moral boundry taking it - such as someone trying to bribe me or buy me but then it really isn't a gift is it) I jsut say thank you. I don't say it isn't acceptable to me, I don't say it is too much, I don't say you shouldn't have, I jsut say thank you. of course they shouldn't have but they wanted to, of course it is too much (see point one) and if it is inadequate for some reason we quietly get rid pass it on or throw it away after the giver has left. No reason to make them feel bad and unappreciated about being generous.


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## ilex (Apr 30, 2002)

This thread has many different opinions, many different interpretations for that matter, but it has been very interesting and thought provoking to be a part of it. As I have said before I don't usually have a problem with accepting gifts from strangers for her. She is very friendly and lovely and people take a shine to her often. If I feel it is inappropriate I would say so, and that is why I was so frustrated after this happened, because it *felt* weird and not right on a few levels and I didn't feel I handled it as well as I could have.

Quote:

What people have been saying is that if you allow your child to give gifts to strangers, you should not be surprised (and should be prepared for) if they want to reciprocate. For some people, if they don't want that interaction at all, then they should not allow their child to give gifts to strangers. For others, that might be saying "I don't allow DD/DS to eat candy, but s/he loves knock knock jokes and s/he's heard all mine, do you have a good one?" Or kinda nod towards the 25 cent toy thingy, or whatever.
This is a good point, and another example of what I could have done. Except that it really isn't in me or my personality to suggest to something else they could give my daughter, but I understand the point. As I have repeated before I realize I did need to be more firm and give reasons WHY if I decided I couldn't accept it. I agree that he probably just felt obliged and uncomfortable after he had told dd he would buy it, BUT he shouldn't have whispered to her to pick something out after I had said no,







as the now famous story goes, but that I suppose is neither here nor there, I can't control what others do. But regardless, other situations of offerings have not felt strange, uncomfortable, made me write about it on MDC, but this one did. It just did, it felt weird and even though I can see the possibilities of his viewpoint, it still gave me that gut turning feeling for some damn reason. Hashing it out here and writing about it was me trying to figure out why. Because in some ways it doesn't outwardly seem that odd. But it was.

And just to clarify, ahem...







I didn't mean that I am a *very paranoid* person in general, as a rule. I meant that in that particular instance which I was defending, keeping an eye on my dd in public places, I am very cautious, aware, careful, as hopefully we all are, and so I am fully aware of where she is at all times, which makes me feel sometimes like I am being very paranoid, but perhaps that wasn't the best word. And it certainly wasn't a comment on my personality. Because of course I am the least paranoid person in the world, as defending my paranoia shows.







: :nana:


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

I understand that you were freaked out, but, I do think that you overreacted.

I find it so sad that we're terrified of everyone outside of our homes when it comes to our children... again though, I don't blame you, we're bombarded by death and fear and crap on television alllllll the time.

Try not to beat yourself up, but, just keep it in mind for next time.

A story to share, my DH, then BF was working at his Dad's bakery one afternoon, right across from an elementary school, a boy of about eight fell off his bike and started howling, DH ran out there and saw that the boy had broken his wrist, and asked for him to follow him so he could call his mom for him.... the boy looked at him completely terrified and refused to move. DH called the school and a lunch lady came to help.

It really shook my husband up and it still bothers him.

So sad.

Edited to add: I didn't read the responses, Momma, so, sorry if I'm repeating a lot or coming across as callous. I do empathize with what you're saying, and, in the end, it does come down to your Spidey sense.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Oh good gravy, folks!!! The poor woman said no THREE times--how is it not rude and inappropriate for someone to continue to insist?? And he obviously knew that his offer was, at least on some level, unwelcome if he whispered to the child to pick out the candy after the parent had said no. How is that even remotely acceptable?


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## Trinitty (Jul 15, 2004)

I hear what your saying, Missy, the guy should have listened to her, I'm just sad that we're all so worried about everyone nowadays.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

According to her post, she said no twice. Several of us have already mentioned that he could have thought that was just a pro forma refusal. We've also mentioned that he might have felt that he'd made a promise of sorts to the little girl by making the offer.

The OP didn't mention that he whispered, and quite a few people may have replied without reading all the posts.

Lastly...thank you, and other posters for the "good gravy", "I can't believe you people", and "how can anybody think" responses. The OP asked - we answered. Is there a particular reason why some of you are being so snotty about our opinions?


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## laralee16 (Nov 12, 2005)

I have to admit, I have been guilty of giveing children little treats. When my husband and I were trying so hard for a baby, any child I saw I loved. I used to play (and win) the crane mashens with the little stuffed toys. If i got a toy I did not like, I would give it to a kid. My husband works at a arcade, and I come home with tickets and tokens in my pockets all the time, and I offer them to families who look like they would go there. But, looking at this from the point of view of someone who has been on the giveing end, I think you did the right thing by takeing it and driveing away. For all you know he may have NEEDED someone to give him a rock, it may have made his day when he was very down, and his first thought was to give something back.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Because a thread is a discussion and certain facts almost always appear after an OP. A response that occurs after a good amount of discussion has taken place should probably take at least the important parts of the discussion into consideration. The whispering was a significant point that came out later in the thread, but has been pointed out several time since. You're right, she only said no twice. But once is enough and following them to the car, no matter where the car is, is going way too far. It was disrespectful, at least. And the moms on this board are always concerned about others viewing their parenting choices with respect and yet, when one mom follows her instincts, she gets berated for not trusting a stranger who didn't respect her. That's just a little twisted to me.


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## boston (Nov 20, 2001)

I don't think it's bad to give treats. But it's not cool to do it when the parent said no.

There could be a number of non-pedofile explanations for his inappropriate behavior. Who knows. Like the OP, I would not give them the candy (to teach them that it's not cool to take candy from strangers, especially the type of strangers who don't follow Mom's rules) And like the OP did, I'd explain why.

Then later, after they were all in bed, I'd have the candy while watching Netflix.

eta: I didn't read the whole thread....the comments about whispering alarmed me. No wonder you were disturbed, OP!


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
I mean - who the hell offers to "watch" a stranger's child for them??

Quite a few people, actually. Off the top of my head:

A parent with 2 kids offered to watch my baby, who was sitting in a grocery cart, while I pulled my car around (it was pouring)

A clerk at Macy's offered to watch my two-year-old while I used the dressing room

A receptionist at the auto mechanic's, while I went into the garage with a mechanic

A parent at the train station, while I was changing the baby's diaper and my 4-year-old was afraid he was going to miss a train go past

There've probably been more. I've never said yes, but I appreciate these offers. It makes me regret living in an age where people who go out of their way for strange kids are considered suspect, however.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Things came out later - including her "weird" feeling and the wispering after her gentle no - that have changed the story significantly (as well as many posters take on the situation).

But there is notthing red flagy or alarming about a stranger giving a parent something small (less than a dollar) to give a child in responce to the child striking up a conversation with the stanger, not even when the mother says no gently, a no that certainly could have been heard as a "oh, no, you don't have to" kinda no rather than a "no" no, and not even when the stanger hands the small gift to the parent on the way out in front of the parent's car parked out front.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I still haven't seen anything in this thread _anywhere_ that smacks of him following her to the car.

A woman in a food fair was making eye contact with dd one day. DD was about 2. They were smiling at each other and making faces and stuff...what my mom calls "toddler flirting". When the woman was leaving, she came over and gave me $5.00. She said she gives $5.00 to someone every payday and that day, it was my daughter for "brightening her day". And, then she went on her merry way.

People give things to charming children every day (ds1 used to get a free piece of ham from the deli staff almost every time I went grocery shopping). People insist on giving other people things every day. People insist even after the recipient (friend, stranger, family member, whatever) says "no" every day. And, the recipient ultimately accepts every day (not every time). How was he supposed to know that she wasn't simply doing the common "oh, no, I'm pretending not to accept it" routine?

In the OP, she described him as "very nice", "fairly young" and said that he "obviously didn't know how inappropriate" the incident was. She described nothing that seemed "off" to me, and said nothing about a bad gut feeling until much later in the thread, either. If she was going by instinct, there was little or nothing in her original post to indicate it.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *srain*
Quite a few people, actually. Off the top of my head:

A parent with 2 kids offered to watch my baby, who was sitting in a grocery cart, while I pulled my car around (it was pouring)

A clerk at Macy's offered to watch my two-year-old while I used the dressing room

A receptionist at the auto mechanic's, while I went into the garage with a mechanic

A parent at the train station, while I was changing the baby's diaper and my 4-year-old was afraid he was going to miss a train go past

There've probably been more. I've never said yes, but I appreciate these offers. It makes me regret living in an age where people who go out of their way for strange kids are considered suspect, however.

Fair enough. I've never had a stranger make such an offer. However, I notice that each of the cases you've mentioned was either an obvious parent or an employee of the establishment you were in. I doubt highly that there's _ever_ been an age where a total stranger could have offered to watch someone's child without raising red flags.

I don't think someone going out of their way for a strange child is suspect. My oldest nephew is an escape artist. He got out one day when he was about two and was spotted a block away by a city crew. When he headed back down the street, they followed him back and knocked on our door to confirm that the little boy they saw actually lived there and had come back. I don't see anything suspect in that. I've seen many people make some little effort for kids in public...from trying to cheer one up in a grocery store to letting them in front of the line for a public restroom. Nothing weird in that, at all.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Missy*
And the moms on this board are always concerned about others viewing their parenting choices with respect and yet, *when one mom follows her instincts*, she gets berated for not trusting a stranger who didn't respect her.

Yes. Before I read _Protecting the Gift_, I would actually answer these type of posts ("am I overreacting?") from my POV. I would analyze it, etc. and give my opinion.

Now I have changed. Now, I tell the mom-- if YOU have a bad feeling, a weird feeling, a funny feeling-- a QUESTIONABLE feeling, that is all you need to know. You don't have to worry about being polite. You don't have to worry about people thinking you are "overprotective." You DO have a right to trust yourself, period. You DO have a right-- a responsibility-- to protect yourself and your loved ones, and nothing else matters. It's not about being paranoid, just very aware.


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## ilex (Apr 30, 2002)

I really can't believe this thread is going on eight pages...


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Missy*
Because a thread is a discussion and certain facts almost always appear after an OP. A response that occurs after a good amount of discussion has taken place should probably take at least the important parts of the discussion into consideration. The whispering was a significant point that came out later in the thread, but has been pointed out several time since. You're right, she only said no twice. But once is enough and following them to the car, no matter where the car is, is going way too far. It was disrespectful, at least. And the moms on this board are always concerned about others viewing their parenting choices with respect and yet, when one mom follows her instincts, she gets berated for not trusting a stranger who didn't respect her. That's just a little twisted to me.


If she wants people to respond to the situation as it occured (including her bad vibe and the whispering to the child after her no), she needs to edit her OP. Otherwise, a percentage of posters who haven't read her later posts (a percentage that will grow as the thread adds pages) are going to respond to the OP itself, and there was not talk of "instincts" or bad vibes in the OP. No one is telling her not to trust her instincts, and many, many posters who answered her question about whether she was overreacting with a "yes" ALSO said that their answer would be different if she had indicated that the stanger gave her bad vibes.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellasmum*
I really can't believe this thread is going on eight pages...









I am always surprised by which threads catch fire and which ones fizzle


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

I agree with Tortellini's response a few pages back -- I don't think it's possible for anyone to say you overreacted because they weren't there to get the nonverbal cues that perhaps you were only subconsciously aware of.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe*
and there was not talk of "instincts" or bad vibes in the OP. No one is telling her not to trust her instincts, and many, many posters who answered her question about whether she was overreacting with a "yes" ALSO said that their answer would be different if she had indicated that the stanger gave her bad vibes.

But this, from the OP, told me that--as nice as the guy seemed--something was off in her mind:

Quote:

I am always TOO bloody polite, worried about offending someone, well not always *but something passively weird like this* just kind of throws me!
That was a good description of the encounter and more than justifies her reaction.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Missy*
But this, from the OP, told me that--as nice as the guy seemed--something was off in her mind:
That was a good description of the encounter and more than justifies her reaction.

Read the sentence. She was saying that him giving her a candybar to give her daughter after she had said no rather gently was "passivly weird". Doesn't sound outside of the relm of normal to me andmany, many posters If she said she found him weird or creepy, that would be different.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

So, the action was passively weird. The passively weird action, any passively weird action, should be attributed to the person behind the action. Whether he was--as an entire person--passively weird doesn't really matter. The action was. The whispering was, too, but, since that wasn't mentioned in the OP, it apparently wasn't significant enough to be considered. Although probably in the mama's mind those two "passively weird" actions added up and raised her concern.

Quote:

Now I have changed. Now, I tell the mom-- if YOU have a bad feeling, a weird feeling, a funny feeling-- *a QUESTIONABLE feeling*, that is all you need to know.
Thank you. That's all that was needed and we need to respect that.

It doesn't matter that the action doesn't appear to anyone else as "weird". It felt "weird" to her. Period.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Corvus*
I think de Becker talks about this tactic in his book as well.

I think it is interesting how we can read the same book, and the same thread, and get such different interpretations of them.

We have to be able to make the distinction (this is where it is very important to not be paranoid - de Becker definitely talks about that in his book) between the thoughtful gesture of a stranger and someone grooming a child to be a victim.

One hundred men (or women for that matter) may offer your child a candy bar during her childhood. Same gesture but varying circumstances. You have to read the subtle clues, and follow your gut instinct. All one hundred instances of the offered candy bar should not raise red flags for you. All one hundred people are not possibly grooming your child to be a victim. If we get so caught up/paranoid/emotional about every interaction our child has with strangers, we will miss the subtle clues that are there when there actually IS a threat.


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## Corvus (Feb 13, 2003)

Kristen, what the? You didn't read the quote that I was referring to. I quoted it in my post. This is what I was referring to, when I said, "I think de Becker talks about this tactic in his book as well":

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dechen*
I think the man was probably harmless, but look at how easily a stranger can make mom the bad guy - down to the part where he handed mom the candy but told the little girl how she should share it. He was trying to bypass mom's authority and relate to the little girl. The implicit message is that HE is on the child's side and mom isn't. Innocently or not, I don't allow people to play those games with my kid. Ick.

I was talking about the guy trying to bypass the mother's authority and relate to the child instead, trying to make the child think that HE is the good guy and the mom is being unreasonable. That is a HUGE red flag. I think if the OP told de Becker this story, he would praise her for listening to her intuition.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
I doubt highly that there's _ever_ been an age where a total stranger could have offered to watch someone's child without raising red flags.

Oh, I have an example!! (where is that raising my hand smilie....)

While in college, I was on a plane - coast to coast flight. A mom was walking the aisle with an infant, maybe six to nine months old? on her shoulder. Every fifteen feet or so, she'd stop and lean on a seat, and the baby would start to cry. She went up and back, up and back, obviously exhausted. One time by, she stopped right in front of me. I caught the baby's eye and was playing peek-a-boo with her. The mom noticed that she'd stopped but the baby hadn't started to cry and turned around to see me playing peek-a-boo. I could tell she was dead on her feet and offered to hold the baby for a while. She hesitated but let me, saying "just for a minute, thank you". She went back to her seat for a few minutes of rest. I had a stuffed frog with me (a gift, it made a cool croaking noise when the ball inside rolled against something textured in there) that we played with, sang little songs quietly, peek-a-boo, etc. The mom didn't come back, and after a while I thought the baby was hungry so I asked the flight attendent if there was a diaper bag near the mom. There was and she brought it to me. I fed the baby (bottles and formula were inside), changed her diaper, and continued to hold her as she slept. When we started to land, the mom was woken by a stewardess at which time she came running back to me, never planning to leave her baby that long.

Of course, we were 1) on a plane with no way to abduct the child, 2) I am female which seems much safer to people, 3) surrounded by people on a full after Xmas flight. But I had never seen her before or since; I was just trying to be nice.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Missy*







So, the action was passively weird. The passively weird action, any passively weird action, should be attributed to the person behind the action. Whether he was--as an entire person--passively weird doesn't really matter. The action was. The whispering was, too, but, since that wasn't mentioned in the OP, it apparently wasn't significant enough to be considered. Although probably in the mama's mind those two "passively weird" actions added up and raised her concern.

Thank you. That's all that was needed and we need to respect that.

It doesn't matter that the action doesn't appear to anyone else as "weird". It felt "weird" to her. Period.

The instinct we are talking about should come from sensing the wieird motivations of the person interacting with us/our child, right. We can get weird vibes from perfectly normal interactions with people while noting, with no vibes and no red flags at all, that people are doing things we consider "wierd." Of course, a person might still want to avoid or rethink your interactions with a bad-vibless persondoing things they consider weird. OP came here to get our take on whether she was overreacting to his actions, and while several posters thought his actions weird, several posters thought his action normal. Then we find out more info about how the op got a weird vibe from him and how he wispered to her daughter after she said no.

But before she expanded on how on the situation, I and many other posters read her saying that the giving of the candybard was a weird thing to do. We simply said - "doesn't sound weird to me." Many posters (me included) than asked if she got any weird vibes from him since that is the crucial issue for posters who think it is inside the relm of "normal" for a stanger to giving a candybar to the mom to give to teh child after the mom said no.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Corvus*
Kristen, what the? You didn't read the quote that I was referring to. I quoted it in my post. This is what I was referring to, when I said, "I think de Becker talks about this tactic in his book as well":

I was talking about the guy trying to bypass the mother's authority and relate to the child instead, trying to make the child think that HE is the good guy and the mom is being unreasonable. That is a HUGE red flag. I think if the OP told de Becker this story, he would praise her for listening to her intuition.

I had read the quote you were referring to, thank you. And I disagree completely. I don't think what happened meant he was trying to align himself with the child and make the mom the "bad guy". Not everything is something bad in disguise. It was not an "icky game"; from EVERY account the OP has reported (in the OP and after), it was a man trying to return a kindness. The OP wasn't comfortable with that, clearly. One of the topics is whether she was accurate in her feelings about that day. SHE HERSELF asked if she was overreacting. If we know we were in the right, we generally don't need others to support our actions. When we are unsure, we sometimes ask for that.

I think now, after this thread has gone on for pages and pages and the poor OP's actions and feelings have been discussed to death, it seems that maybe some justification of her feelings is coming up. In the beginning the man seemed nice and she was "very paranoid". Now the man gave her bad vibes and she is not paranoid. I might feel attacked if my actions/feelings/etc. were hotly discussed on a long thread. I hope you are hanging in there with us, OP. It is a good topic and there is much to learn (if just one person reads The Gift of Fear then all the bantering will have been worth it).

We each do what we feel is best in each situation. None of us were there with you. I do understand that awful feeling when you don't handle a situation the way you wished you had - as we can't go back and redo it. And of course it is best to err on the side of caution. I just think that those of us who do think you overreacted are hoping for less walls and fears among the people we live around. The whole "it takes a village" kind of thing. That doesn't mean there aren't a few bad apples, just that not everyone is.

I wonder what might be different if you find yourself in this situation in the future. I think I would be clearer in my no, and a brief why (not because you owe a stranger your reason but because it would then not be perceived as "oh, you don't have to/that's ok"/token no kind of thing). I really liked the suggestion that a PP made about dc liking jokes!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I also have to say that I agree about the bad vibes. If I get a bad vibe from someone and/or my gut feeling is that they're not "okay", I trust it - every time. I always have. I remember a guy walking by me on the street once when I had ds1 in his stroller. The guy looked at him, said "cute kid" and I felt the hair on the back of my neck go up (literally - only time in my life that it's happened). I have no idea why, and I don't care. I said "thank" without looking at him and just kept walking. (The "thanks" being solely because I don't want to be completely obnoxious, on the off chance that he was okay.)

The original post simply didn't read that way to me.


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## ilex (Apr 30, 2002)

Okay in all honesty my head is starting to hurt from this thread and everytime I get an email saying another post has been made I cringe a little. Partly because I now feel this has particular experience has been completely blown out of proportion, has been over analyzed and over thought to its painful death and I for one am pretty sick of thinking about it. And also because my perspective and opinion seems to have been wrongly adopted and my words keep being interpreted as something other than I intended. When I first wrote the OP I didn't even expect one reply, honestly. It was a vent more than anything. No I didn't add every little detail, every little nuance because I didn't think it necessary, I really didn't think my every little word would be picked apart. and I was even trying to figure it all out while I was writing it. I guess I have learned a lesson about MDC from this too, not in a bad way, just in an important see what is possible way... Today was my birthday and while it was a crappy one anyway, I spent more of it than I would have liked thinking about this bloody thread. But here goes another clarification, even though I am feeling like it is fairly pointless...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten*
I had read the quote you were referring to, thank you. And I disagree completely. I don't think what happened meant he was trying to align himself with the child and make the mom the "bad guy". Not everything is something bad in disguise. It was not an "icky game"; from EVERY account the OP has reported (in the OP and after), it was a man trying to return a kindness. The OP wasn't comfortable with that, clearly. One of the topics is whether she was accurate in her feelings about that day. SHE HERSELF asked if she was overreacting. If we know we were in the right, we generally don't need others to support our actions. When we are unsure, we sometimes ask for that.

I think now, after this thread has gone on for pages and pages and the poor OP's actions and feelings have been discussed to death, it seems that maybe some justification of her feelings is coming up. In the beginning the man seemed nice and she was "very paranoid". Now the man gave her bad vibes and she is not paranoid. I might feel attacked if my actions/feelings/etc. were hotly discussed on a long thread. I hope you are hanging in there with us, OP. It is a good topic and there is much to learn (if just one person reads The Gift of Fear then all the bantering will have been worth it).

We each do what we feel is best in each situation. None of us were there with you. I do understand that awful feeling when you don't handle a situation the way you wished you had - as we can't go back and redo it. And of course it is best to err on the side of caution. I just think that those of us who do think you overreacted are hoping for less walls and fears among the people we live around. The whole "it takes a village" kind of thing. That doesn't mean there aren't a few bad apples, just that not everyone is.

I wonder what might be different if you find yourself in this situation in the future. I think I would be clearer in my no, and a brief why (not because you owe a stranger your reason but because it would then not be perceived as "oh, you don't have to/that's ok"/token no kind of thing). I really liked the suggestion that a PP made about dc liking jokes!

First, it wasn't that I was uncomfortable with someone returning a kindness, it was THE WAY he was trying to do whatever the heck he was doing. As I have said a number of times, kind gestures have been offered and accepted before and I have not had a problem with it. And actually it did feel slightly icky to me, as I stated in the OP. And I don't think I ever put it across that originally the man just seemed really nice, I actually stated in the OP that it was creepy to me, that his actions did not seem right. As for me being "very paranoid" as I have clarified earlier, that was in response to something completely different, I didn't feel very paranoid in this situation, I felt nervous, and strange about the whole thing and uncomfortable. And I think it was clear that he was giving me bad vibes from the start, or I wouldn't have been posting about how it made me feel nauseous. My story didn't change because I was feeling defensive, I actually wasn't feeling this way until very recently, when my words ceased to be my words.

And again, as I have said before I am not walking around the freaked out, scared, defensive paranoid person that is afraid of every stranger that talks to my kid, this has never happened before, that a situation made me feel like this, hence my sick and uncomfortable feeling. And I think I must have stated at least three times that I needed a firmer no with a more serious tone behind it, yes yes yes. I know.

I must say though, one thing that is really bugging me, and that I am quite shocked and slightly appalled at is that within this community especially there are those that would say, "but you only said no twice". Only. said. no. twice. Is once not enough? I am baffled over this. And actually even though I didn't relay in absolute detail every second of the experience for all to read, I said no to him no less than three times, i just didn't want to babble on in the OP about how many times I said no. Unfortunately I didn't know the OP would be dissected to death and used against me as to what *really* happened. hmmmmm...

Okay, I'm done. I really don't want to dwell in this particular example any longer.







:


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## MsChatsAlot (Sep 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellasmum*
I must say though, one thing that is really bugging me, and that I am quite shocked and slightly appalled at is that within this community especially there are those that would say, "but you only said no twice". Only. said. no. twice. Is once not enough? I am baffled over this.

I guess my point, many pages ago, is that the way she said "no" didn't really mean "no." Communication is so important. Saying "Oh, no, that's fine, you don't have to do that" is a VERY different message than saying, "No, we don't want it. Please leave us alone." If she had said the latter even once and he pursued, I could understand why someone would be upset. But, what she said could easily be interpreted as just being nice and not really meaning no at all.

I'll say, once again, we need to make sure that what we want to communicate is really what we are saying.


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## Miss Kitty (Jan 30, 2003)

I wasn't there so I didn't get a "feel for the guy". He should have taken no for an answer. However,if I was that paranoid about strangers I would not have allowed my daughter to initiate interaction with strangers by giving them rocks either.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Well how did the other people react? They didn't offer anything, I don't think. So it's not like the offering of rocks created bad feelings until this persistent guy reacted. Maybe she shouldn't have allowed that interaction, I don't know. But I do think it unfair to refer to her as "paranoid" when I think she only used that term in the beginning to be self-deprecating and because she felt bad for following her instincts (reacting negatively to his refusal to listen.) To then call her paranoid, which is in reality quite a disparaging term, is glossing over things a bit. I know that feeling of feeling paranoid, even if you don't truly think you are. It's more like a feeling of guilt for not being polite, for mistrusting people.

I think one had to be there. Was he harmless? I think so, especially considering that he was approached first. But I don't know. Is it weird not to listen? I think so, even if you give some leeway for the usual custom of offering again in case they refused to be polite. Obviously people feel strongly about this and aren't going to agree completely. I wouldn't have thought that stranger interaction would have hit such a nerve.

Also, wrt to that story in the book about strangers offering to watch your kids- I think all of the examples given are different than a completely strange man approaching you in a shopping mall when you're not even in trouble. She was merely frustrated with her bored child, iirc. And de Becker really stresses the "man" part in that equation, as well.


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## tiffani (May 17, 2002)

Ack! The Stranger Danger Sh*tstorm of 2006! Knowing you in real life, OP, I'd say he was probably hitting on you







Albeit very poorly...

But really, for me, when these types of things happen, it always pisses me off that I take the other person's feelings into consideration more than my own -- I've found myself in more than one "icky" situation in my lifetime because I didn't want to hurt someone's feelings...someone who was so obviously NOT concerned about MY feelings!!

Who knows what this guy's intentions were, and, as I fall on the naieve side of the line I'd say he was probably just *trying* to be nice, but YOU were there, YOU know best -- and really, it doesn't matter what his intentions were, he WAS undermining you, consciously or not -- that's how some people relate to kids (including the Cat in The Hat, I might add) and it's too bad...it really puts mom in the "bad guy" role -- come to think of it, I've never heard of anyone (except maybe grandparents) doing that to a dad. Stupid gender inequality!

I'm trying so hard to not pass this on to my kids -- standing up for myself has become an obsession with me as of late...politely, of course
















:


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellasmum*
When I first wrote the OP I didn't even expect one reply, honestly. It was a vent more than anything. No I didn't add every little detail, every little nuance because I didn't think it necessary, I really didn't think my every little word would be picked apart. and I was even trying to figure it all out while I was writing it.









mama, and














:







!!!!


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten*
SHE HERSELF asked if she was overreacting. If we know we were in the right, we generally don't need others to support our actions. When we are unsure, we sometimes ask for that.


I don't think this is true for me. Or really, for many people. de Becker's books are all about the fact that many of us (esp. women) ignore that "iffy" feeling. IMO, all that you need is an iffy feeling, you don't have to be sure.


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## robugmum (May 1, 2003)

Ahem, I got the distinct feeling from the OP's last post that perhaps she'd rather just let the issue go. Maybe we should all respect her wishes?


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Anyone can non-sub if they don't want any more email notices of new posts on a thread. I can understand the OP's feeling about this thread going longer than she wanted, or in a direction that doesn't feel supportive to her. I really think that people posting "you did exactly right in that situation" is helpful if they really believe it - but I have grown in past threads when people pointed out to me outlooks that I may not have originally had in regards to different situations.

In threads that specifically say "support only", I am respectful of that - they don't want to hear other sides or new ideas. That is ok.

In threads that specifically ask "what do you think?" or in this case "was I overreacting?", I think giving viewpoints from both sides is perfectly acceptable. No one got nasty about it; there were disagreements and varying points of view.


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut*
Also, wrt to that story in the book about strangers offering to watch your kids- I think all of the examples given are different than a completely strange man approaching you in a shopping mall when you're not even in trouble. She was merely frustrated with her bored child, iirc. And de Becker really stresses the "man" part in that equation, as well.

If you're talking about the examples I gave, almost half of them were men. And I don't really see how leaving a kid with a random store employee or a random parent would be significantly safer than any other random stranger.


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## ilex (Apr 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kirsten*
Anyone can non-sub if they don't want any more email notices of new posts on a thread. I can understand the OP's feeling about this thread going longer than she wanted, or in a direction that doesn't feel supportive to her. I really think that people posting "you did exactly right in that situation" is helpful if they really believe it - but I have grown in past threads when people pointed out to me outlooks that I may not have originally had in regards to different situations.

In threads that specifically say "support only", I am respectful of that - they don't want to hear other sides or new ideas. That is ok.

In threads that specifically ask "what do you think?" or in this case "was I overreacting?", I think giving viewpoints from both sides is perfectly acceptable. No one got nasty about it; there were disagreements and varying points of view.

How about threads where the OP says I am tired of this topic (my experience specifically) being discussed and I am growing tired of having to defend myself and my experience, because people keep skewing my words and experience. I didn't ask for support only, but this thread is now 8 PAGES LONG and probably should have stopped after the first reply. And since it is about me and my experience I do believe I have the right to ask that it end now. And if one just decides to continue posting about it I believe that is nothing less than disrespectful and rude. If you would like to continue discussing points brought up here, not my experience specifically, then start another thread, another topic.

Move on. Please.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I'm referring to several examples people gave. Neither sounds terribly safe, but I do think being a random parent or random store clerk (at least their identity is known) or stuck on an airplane is safer than trusting a pushy, strange man who approaches a mom in a mall when she _isn't even in need of assistance._ I think it's good to point out that sometimes, in certain situations, letting a stranger watch your child might in fact be necessary and not as dangerous or something. But de Becker wasn't really talking about instances that compared to those examples, as far as I can tell. He was talking about warning signs in such a situation, like refusing to take No for an answer, siding with the kid, etc.

We cross-posted. I'm not going to dig my heels in and object to a new thread, but I don't think it's uncommon for threads to take on a discussion or debate of their own. As long as the op isn't continually and repeatedly referred to, I don't see how it's disrespectful for the thread to continue.
I can see why you'd opt out, though, but I don't think it's personal after awhile.


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## LovemyBoo (Oct 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut*
We cross-posted. I'm not going to dig my heels in and object to a new thread, but I don't think it's uncommon for threads to take on a discussion or debate of their own. As long as the op isn't continually and repeatedly referred to, I don't see how it's disrespectful for the thread to continue.
I can see why you'd opt out, though, but I don't think it's personal after awhile.

I agree that starting a thread around here is a lot like having a child. You gave birth to it, you have some measure of control over it - esp. in the beginning. But eventually it's going to grow up and leave you and go do what it wants. You just hope you taught it right and it will make good decisions.









But since the op requested it I'll spin-off and leave her kid alone.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellasmum*
How about threads where the OP says I am tired of this topic (my experience specifically) being discussed and I am growing tired of having to defend myself and my experience, because people keep skewing my words and experience. I didn't ask for support only, but this thread is now 8 PAGES LONG and probably should have stopped after the first reply. And since it is about me and my experience I do believe I have the right to ask that it end now. And if one just decides to continue posting about it I believe that is nothing less than disrespectful and rude. If you would like to continue discussing points brought up here, not my experience specifically, then start another thread, another topic.

Move on. Please.

I think you can ask a mod to lock this thread. Threads do have a mind of thier own - and you apparently hit on a topic of great interest







It seems the trhead has become more about abstract issues (stangers, boundaries, safty, modern society's fear) than about a specific incident you are working through, though as long as this thread is open, there will be a percentage of posters who read your op and post a response (not reading through the entire thread). Only way to stop that is to ask the thread to be closed.

Sorry your birthday sucked, BTW


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## TortelliniMama (Mar 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellasmum*
How about threads where the OP says I am tired of this topic (my experience specifically) being discussed and I am growing tired of having to defend myself and my experience, because people keep skewing my words and experience. I didn't ask for support only, but this thread is now 8 PAGES LONG and probably should have stopped after the first reply. And since it is about me and my experience I do believe I have the right to ask that it end now. And if one just decides to continue posting about it I believe that is nothing less than disrespectful and rude. If you would like to continue discussing points brought up here, not my experience specifically, then start another thread, another topic.

Move on. Please.

Well, at least one good thing came out of this thread: You've gotten some practice at clearly and firmly saying, "No. Stop."







I think that, although the topic in general does have merit as a focus of discussion, it would be better done on another thread, since referring back to one particular experience probably isn't that helpful in terms of the big picture. You might want to edit your OP to direct people to post on the new thread (http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=393724) rather than this one. Sorry this thread led to more stress for you!


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## ilex (Apr 30, 2002)

LoveMyBoo,







and thanks, I appreciate it.

mamawanabe, I have asked actually, and they couldn't because nothing in the thread goes against MDC said rules and guidelines. Maybe if we start talking about sex...
















Tortellinimama, Yes I suppose I may have to do that. Thanks for the link.

Now I have to stop bumping this thread back up...


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## magster (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MsChatsAlot*
To me, this was a communication issue. What you wrote above, I would interpret as "oh, I don't want you to go out of your way or spend your money." It does not seem like a NO to me, it seems more like a polite or nicety that we do which really doesn't mean no, it just allows the person an out if they choose.

It would have been very different if you had said, "No. My daughter is not allowed to accept things from stranger." or "No, please leave us alone." or "No, my child is not allowed to eat sugar." These, to me are clear messages. What you said to him was not, so it is understandable why he persisted. It's quite a common language game we play.

I am impressed that a young man had the decency and courage to do something nice for a young child and follow through with his promise. I don't think for one minute he thought that you'd be freaked out by it. He was just playing with a child that approached him in kindness and sharing.


Exactly my thoughts.


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## MamaBug (Jun 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellasmum*
LoveMyBoo,







and thanks, I appreciate it.

mamawanabe, I have asked actually, and they couldn't because nothing in the thread goes against MDC said rules and guidelines. Maybe if we start talking about sex...



























Though your right that would work!







Sorry for bumping this again but it WAS at the top. Thanks to starting that other thread!


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