# Healing the Gut Tribe-December



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Here's the new December thread


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I actually like kombucha. I like to sip it throughout the day. It definitely makes a difference in my digestion. I think it works better for me than the enzymes do. It gives me a headache though. Maybe that's more die off?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I like to add my kombucha to water and sipping it before meals. My stuff is yummy tasting the first day but it gets so strong.

On the subject of good bacteria...how many 'good guys' are in fermented veggies? ANy rough estimates? I love eating them and don't want to over do it.

Another selenium question-I just upped my selenium dose from 100 to 200 mcg, is it enough? I don't eat any brazil nuts. How do I know when I am taking enough or need more?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I like to add my kombucha to water and sipping it before meals. My stuff is yummy tasting the first day but it gets so strong.

On the subject of good bacteria...how many 'good guys' are in fermented veggies? ANy rough estimates? I love eating them and don't want to over do it.

Another selenium question-I just upped my selenium dose from 100 to 200 mcg, is it enough? I don't eat any brazil nuts. How do I know when I am taking enough or need more?

I've never seen any estimates of the amount of good bacteria in fermented veggies. I don't think you can overdo it. I've been eating 1 to 1 1/2 cups of them a day for months. Unless you're giving yourself too much die-off you should be able to eat as much as you want.

I would not go over 200 mcg of selenium a day as selenium toxicity is pretty dangerous and I think the toxicity level is 500-600 mcg/day, and you should be getting some from your food already. If you happen to live in the Dakotas and eat locally grown foods I would not take any extra selenium at all as the soil in that area has an excess of selenium.

How much kombucha do you drink a day? I'm only doing a couple of ounces right now. I wish I could get DD to drink it, that or water kefirs. I made her finger jello today using water kefir instead of juice and she ate about three bites and then started smearing it around. She seems quite determined to thwart my best efforts to heal her. Maybe I should try the coconut milk yogurt again, although I can't remember if she liked that or not.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I've never seen any estimates of the amount of good bacteria in fermented veggies. I don't think you can overdo it. I've been eating 1 to 1 1/2 cups of them a day for months. Unless you're giving yourself too much die-off you should be able to eat as much as you want.

I would not go over 200 mcg of selenium a day as selenium toxicity is pretty dangerous and I think the toxicity level is 500-600 mcg/day, and you should be getting some from your food already. If you happen to live in the Dakotas and eat locally grown foods I would not take any extra selenium at all as the soil in that area has an excess of selenium.

How much kombucha do you drink a day? I'm only doing a couple of ounces right now. I wish I could get DD to drink it, that or water kefirs. I made her finger jello today using water kefir instead of juice and she ate about three bites and then started smearing it around. She seems quite determined to thwart my best efforts to heal her. Maybe I should try the coconut milk yogurt again, although I can't remember if she liked that or not.

I never thought of making jello out of kefir, that is brilliant! What about using a syringe and squirting it into the back/side of her mouth? She needs such a small amount. Have you considered pumping some extra breast milk and making kefir out of it? We are taking a break from it because DS's system was overwhelmed. I did let him suck kombucha off my finger today, he seemed to like it. I don't know how he does it, but DS doesn't even grimace when I give him the nasty fishy CLO. I have to turn around when I take it so he doesn't see me make an icky face.

I drink an about an ounce of kombucha in a cup of water if the tea is strong before each meal. Sometimes I make salad dressing out of it, yum.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I never thought of making jello out of kefir, that is brilliant! What about using a syringe and squirting it into the back/side of her mouth? She needs such a small amount. Have you considered pumping some extra breast milk and making kefir out of it? We are taking a break from it because DS's system was overwhelmed. I did let him suck kombucha off my finger today, he seemed to like it. I don't know how he does it, but DS doesn't even grimace when I give him the nasty fishy CLO. I have to turn around when I take it so he doesn't see me make an icky face.

I drink an about an ounce of kombucha in a cup of water if the tea is strong before each meal. Sometimes I make salad dressing out of it, yum.

I have seriously thought about the syringe thing but I figure she would need at least an ounce a day, which is a couple of tablespoons, so I think I would have to "force feed" her several times a day and I think she would be pretty unhappy about it. I don't have a pump but if all else fails maybe I'll get a cheap one and give BM kefir a try. I don't know that she'll drink that, either, though--I swear she can smell the stuff and refuses to drink it based on smell since she normally drinks anything out of her water bottles. She loves CLO--she begs for it when I get the bottle out and slurps it right up. I don't mind the taste of it, either









I think I am going to start adding just a little bit of water kefir or kombucha to DD's water and then slowly increase the amount each day and see if I can get her used to the taste that way.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I have seriously thought about the syringe thing but I figure she would need at least an ounce a day, which is a couple of tablespoons, so I think I would have to "force feed" her several times a day and I think she would be pretty unhappy about it. I don't have a pump but if all else fails maybe I'll get a cheap one and give BM kefir a try. I don't know that she'll drink that, either, though--I swear she can smell the stuff and refuses to drink it based on smell since she normally drinks anything out of her water bottles. She loves CLO--she begs for it when I get the bottle out and slurps it right up. I don't mind the taste of it, either









I think I am going to start adding just a little bit of water kefir or kombucha to DD's water and then slowly increase the amount each day and see if I can get her used to the taste that way.

Does your DD like chewing on the syringe(with you holding it of course)? Maybe let her chew/suck on it for a couple of days and then do a tiny squirt. Mixing it slowly with water sounds good too. There are cheap hand pumps you can get, since you need so little milk you don't need an electric one.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Update on us:

DS has confirmed leaky gut. Did an interesting test of IgA, IgM and IgG from Alletess Lab http://www.foodallergy.com/ of reactions to gut flora, both good and bad. He was reacting to both which means his intestines are not sealed. Of course given that he is allergic to so many foods, this was kind of redundant!

Nutritionist recommended Tyler's Permeability Factors. Dr. said zinc. We are also doing a test for the MTHRFR gene, which i know little about in my ASD reading, need to bone up on that. It has to do with folic acid and B12 requirements.

We are trying to do a Rotation Diet and it's been really hard. The interesting thing is though grains are much better tolerated than fruit! (Even cooked fruit.) Not sure why this is.

Will be petitioning ins. to cover VSL#3 as it does cover special foods in the case of allergic colitis. We shall see.

Had a good discussion on metals and environmental issues with nutritionist but cut short. Thank goodness ins. will pay for unlimited visits with her. She recommended iodine in form of Lugol's solution and selenium. DS's thyroid tested fine but his body temps are low so she suggested I read about Wilson's Low Temp Syndrome: http://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/

I haven't done anything yet about taking my temps b/c I sleep every minute I can, but I know I should. Anyone with Irish ancestry or other background of famine is more likely to have this metabolic issue. Interestingly enough, of the 8+ ethnic groups DS is, he has both Irish and Native American which are the most susceptible.

We are having our house evaluated for mold issues. The dr. is a big believer in environmental stresses being one of root causes. We had a problem of pipe leaking under sink, and a lot of cabinets might have to be ripped out and replaced of which we don't have $$ for.









My digestion is great, eating kefir and the grains almost everyday. Ate everything with abandon on Thanksgiving!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Oh and Wilson's Syndrome effects digestion b/c enzymes only work in a small range of body temp, low temp inactivates them.

Also my next project is to try to dehydrate kefir grains as described on Dom's site to make my own "probiotic powder". DS has decided he doesn't like kefir now.









Still scatterbrained as usual!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I know I asked this a while ago, but I forgot the answer--is 6 weeks gluten-free enough time to be able to tell if DD has a gluten intolerance when I add it back in? And when I reintroduce gluten-containing products, should I do a gluten containing grain other than wheat first and then do wheat so I can tell if DD has a gluten intolerance or a wheat one (and hopefully neither!)? And how much time do I need to allow between food challenges?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

: I am really glum today about our whole eczema/yeast situation. Ds''s rashes are the worst they have ever been. We are having a birthday party for him tomorrow and I feel horrible for saying this, but I don't want to take pictures because his face is so bad, I don't want to remember him this way, even though that is our life right now. DH is starting to argue with me about how I am dealing with the situation. Money is tight so every remedy, treatment, supplement I have to consider very carefully. DS is bothered by the itching, he is ornery and cranky and this is not his usual disposition. I need to take him to the CST, but I did not have a spare moment this past week. I just feel horrible. I know that the bad eczema is probably due to die off but that does not make it any easier to look at.

I have considered restarting SCD for a third time, because the 2nd time around DS improved so much. I have been very good about following the diet, but I have been enjoying more advanced foods and I feel like I am digesting them well. But Psychologically I don't know if I can restart it again and s-l-w-l-y add the foods and supplements in. Would it even be that helpful? I keep trying things hoping that this 'thing' will be the answer. I want to pull my hair out and I want to cry. And I want to yell at the next person who makes a comment about his cheeks, which will inevitably come tomorrow at his birthday party.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 







: I am really glum today about our whole eczema/yeast situation. Ds''s rashes are the worst they have ever been. We are having a birthday party for him tomorrow and I feel horrible for saying this, but I don't want to take pictures because his face is so bad, I don't want to remember him this way, even though that is our life right now. DH is starting to argue with me about how I am dealing with the situation. Money is tight so every remedy, treatment, supplement I have to consider very carefully. DS is bothered by the itching, he is ornery and cranky and this is not his usual disposition. I need to take him to the CST, but I did not have a spare moment this past week. I just feel horrible. I know that the bad eczema is probably due to die off but that does not make it any easier to look at.

I have considered restarting SCD for a third time, because the 2nd time around DS improved so much. I have been very good about following the diet, but I have been enjoying more advanced foods and I feel like I am digesting them well. But Psychologically I don't know if I can restart it again and s-l-w-l-y add the foods and supplements in. Would it even be that helpful? I keep trying things hoping that this 'thing' will be the answer. I want to pull my hair out and I want to cry. And I want to yell at the next person who makes a comment about his cheeks, which will inevitably come tomorrow at his birthday party.









I completely understand you not wanting to take pictures--we had pictures taken at JCPenney a few weeks ago and I almost cancelled because I didn't want pictures of DD with her cheeks all red. My DH sometimes gives me a hard time, too







I understand always hoping "this one more thing" will be the answer--right now I have decided to not add anything new to DD's regimen for a couple of weeks to just see what happens (and give me a bit of a break from stressing over it all).

Here's a thought: if your DS did well when you restarted the SCD, maybe you should consider doing an actual candida diet. Maybe he's having difficulty with something in the SCD. When I switched from the SCD to the candida diet, it was a bit hard at first while I figured out what to eat, but in some ways it was easier--I started eating salads right away, and I'd never worked up to uncooked veggies on the SCD. I also started eating other veggies that I hadn't worked up to on the SCD.

Also, if you feel overwhelmed there is nothing wrong with taking a break for a bit. You could stop the supplements for a week or two, or eat any SCD legal foods, or eat non SCD foods that you know he can tolerate...that sort of thing. Sometimes we really need a bit of a mental break to get the energy to keep working on all this.








again mama...and I hope the birthday goes wonderfully and you have a great day


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I think DD's digestion is really shot--I don't think she's digesting coconut oil. Lately I've noticed that there are what look like grease spots floating in her poop when she poops in the potty. And today there was what looked like a film of oil on the top of her poop (her poop is totally liquid now--I think she has gone back to having EBF poop). Does anyone know of any deficiencies or anything that could cause this? I'm thinking the most likely explanation is that she is low in hydrochloric/stomach acid, too--does that sound likely? And how would I treat low stomach acid in a baby? The only thing I can think of is to give her lemon juice in water, but would I need to do that before she nurses as much as possible, or just before she eats CO and then throughout the day? Should I stop giving her CO? Ahhhh!

Also, I read about rubbing cloves of raw garlic on the bottom of babies' feet as an anti-fungal. Would that be too hard on her digestive system, and does it sound like it would be effective? I thought cloves of garlic had to be crushed or chopped for the anti-fungal ingredient to be activated.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
And I want to yell at the next person who makes a comment about his cheeks, which will inevitably come tomorrow at his birthday party.











put a sign on your door telling your guests that your ds is sensitive to comments about his face - so please do not comment.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I think DD's digestion is really shot--I don't think she's digesting coconut oil. Lately I've noticed that there are what look like grease spots floating in her poop when she poops in the potty. And today there was what looked like a film of oil on the top of her poop (her poop is totally liquid now--I think she has gone back to having EBF poop). Does anyone know of any deficiencies or anything that could cause this? I'm thinking the most likely explanation is that she is low in hydrochloric/stomach acid, too--does that sound likely? And how would I treat low stomach acid in a baby? The only thing I can think of is to give her lemon juice in water, but would I need to do that before she nurses as much as possible, or just before she eats CO and then throughout the day? Should I stop giving her CO? Ahhhh!

Also, I read about rubbing cloves of raw garlic on the bottom of babies' feet as an anti-fungal. Would that be too hard on her digestive system, and does it sound like it would be effective? I thought cloves of garlic had to be crushed or chopped for the anti-fungal ingredient to be activated.

There are many things that could cause your dd to not properly digest fat. It is seen alot in CF kids (not saying your dd has CF of course!) If she's not producing lipase, or her bile isn't what it should be (bile aids lipase in the digestion of fat) The bile is produced by the liver and stored by the pancreas. If the liver is being taxed (which it always in in the case of food allergies) then that may be a piece of the problem. In this case you will often see oily stool. IT may not be a problem specifically with CO. Sorry if that was terribly unhelpful!

We use garlic on our kids feet whenever they get sick. I coat the bottoms of their feet with OO and then place crushed garlic wrapped in gauze on the bottoms of their feet. I then put a wet sock over it, followed by a wool sock. It works as an antifingal, and also helps with colds/flu.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
There are many things that could cause your dd to not properly digest fat. It is seen alot in CF kids (not saying your dd has CF of course!) If she's not producing lipase, or her bile isn't what it should be (bile aids lipase in the digestion of fat) The bile is produced by the liver and stored by the pancreas. If the liver is being taxed (which it always in in the case of food allergies) then that may be a piece of the problem. In this case you will often see oily stool. IT may not be a problem specifically with CO. Sorry if that was terribly unhelpful!

We use garlic on our kids feet whenever they get sick. I coat the bottoms of their feet with OO and then place crushed garlic wrapped in gauze on the bottoms of their feet. I then put a wet sock over it, followed by a wool sock. It works as an antifingal, and also helps with colds/flu.

So...would liver support be a good thing to do for her?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

So, I spent the last couple of days reeling. I went to a conference on tongue tie and I have so many things swimmin in my head! ALot of what we have been through as a family makes sense. First of all, apparently tongue tie is more apparent in and with each subsequent child. So to me, it is clearly nutritional. This has never been researched, or even apparently thought about. Huh.

An undiagnosed tongue tie negatively affects digestions (we knew that) it can cause bloating, discomfort, constipation and so on and so forth. I didn't really realize to what extent though. Two case studies were presented where the patient was on all kinds of meds for IBD and had all of the symptoms disappear when clipped. That is interesting.

The conference was given because docs are no longer assessing for anything but type 1 ties. Ds had a type 1, 2 and 3. Luckily my LC was on it and called this doc in NY, and was then able to have her talk my doc here through the procedure. Unfortunately although we clipped twice (first the anterior, then posterior) we didn't get the whole thing. Again, interesting. My dd was also assessed at the final day and she is also tied in her labial and lingual frenulums. No suprise that she has digestive issues, as well as speech and dental (space between her two front teeth and bottom front teeth angle in) We are going to have her clipped soon.

The best part was my original CST was also there, though not practicing anymore. She was part of a team that used ds as a model for what CST looks like on infants (videotaped for the medical community) She worked on him for about 40 minutes. She was able to release alot, but said she needed to talk to me about what she found. The next day she held ds during the beginning of the lecture and worked on him again. She said that it was as if he had never been worked on. I left the hall with her and she said that structually he was way off and that he had a mass of connective tissue that was compressing his bowel. His bowel has never been able to open fully. IT explains all of his symptoms and we have an answer! Now we just need to find a way to work through it. Soooo, more work for me!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--I'm so glad you have an answer! Hopefully you'll be able to figure out how to fix him quickly.

How do you know if a baby is tongue-tied? DD isn't "obviously" tongue-tied--she can stick her tongue waay out (my first memory of her is her sticking her little tongue out like a cat once she stopped crying after her birth).


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 







I completely understand you not wanting to take pictures--we had pictures taken at JCPenney a few weeks ago and I almost cancelled because I didn't want pictures of DD with her cheeks all red. My DH sometimes gives me a hard time, too







I understand always hoping "this one more thing" will be the answer--right now I have decided to not add anything new to DD's regimen for a couple of weeks to just see what happens (and give me a bit of a break from stressing over it all).

Here's a thought: if your DS did well when you restarted the SCD, maybe you should consider doing an actual candida diet. Maybe he's having difficulty with something in the SCD. When I switched from the SCD to the candida diet, it was a bit hard at first while I figured out what to eat, but in some ways it was easier--I started eating salads right away, and I'd never worked up to uncooked veggies on the SCD. I also started eating other veggies that I hadn't worked up to on the SCD.

Also, if you feel overwhelmed there is nothing wrong with taking a break for a bit. You could stop the supplements for a week or two, or eat any SCD legal foods, or eat non SCD foods that you know he can tolerate...that sort of thing. Sometimes we really need a bit of a mental break to get the energy to keep working on all this.








again mama...and I hope the birthday goes wonderfully and you have a great day









Thank you for the support. I go through this every few weeks, esp when DS is having a bad time. It is easy for me to stick to the diet when he is doing well because I'd like to think it is due to my diligence.

So after being on SCD and going to the candida diet did you feel like you were digesting foods properly that you had not introduced yet on SCD? What kinds of changes did you see in yourself? In your DD? Did you notice if her food intolerances changed? I started eating salads a couple weeks ago and I know that with enzymes I do well, once I forgot to take them and could feel the pain of them not getting processed.

The B-day party was wonderful! No one said a work about his cheeks, thank goodness. Ds was so good, we had 14 people here and he is always good with people he is not used to that many at once and in his house. He took a 3.5 hr nap in the am







and then 2 hrs in the PM. I don't know what is going on, growth spurt or a tooth maybe, we shall see.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

FF-that is big news about the CST, hopefully he will make improvements now. Is CST like chiropractic, you can get an adjustment and sometimes it takes a few or many visits for it to 'take' or 'hold'? I am still very new to CST but really like how it is helping ds.

Very interesting about the tongue tie and digestion. Is that because a person cannot properly chew, getting the enzymes to do their work? Or does it have to do with swallowing?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I'm getting sick of trying to diagnose dds myself!

DD1 still has that nasty rash around her mouth. I don't know what it is but I do know that the consistent use of tee trea oil helps it WHEN she doesn't bite it, lick it or pick at it with her fingers. So, I'm not going to the ped for it because I know he'll either giver her a steriod cream or an antibiotic - neither of which I'll fill, so what's the point?

But now, she's also got little red bumps all over her face. They are not raised (at least they don't look raised, I haven't felt them yet.)

What the heck could this be? She hasn't eaten anything different that I can think of.

No fever, no other symptoms.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I'm getting sick of trying to diagnose dds myself!

DD1 still has that nasty rash around her mouth. I don't know what it is but I do know that the consistent use of tee trea oil helps it WHEN she doesn't bite it, lick it or pick at it with her fingers. So, I'm not going to the ped for it because I know he'll either giver her a steriod cream or an antibiotic - neither of which I'll fill, so what's the point?

But now, she's also got little red bumps all over her face. They are not raised (at least they don't look raised, I haven't felt them yet.)

What the heck could this be? She hasn't eaten anything different that I can think of.

No fever, no other symptoms.










I hear your frustration and feel like I am in a similar situation.







For us


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I hear your frustration and feel like I am in a similar situation.







For us

Ah, thanks. I'm kinda hoping it's chicken pox. I'd rather it be that than a NEW flare up of excema yk?

Geez, at least the pox would be over and done with and I won't have a new project to work on. . .


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I am *thinking* about bee's anti-candida diet and the thing that holds me back is that I have not been eating eggs(seems like the diet would be challenging without eggs and CO, which I also have not been eating.). Ds does seem to react toeggs with red bumps on his cheeks. Is it an allergy or maybe something to do with the high sulfur content of the eggs? I don't clearly understand the role of sulfur in detoxing the body...


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Ah, thanks. I'm kinda hoping it's chicken pox. I'd rather it be that than a NEW flare up of excema yk?

Geez, at least the pox would be over and done with and I won't have a new project to work on. . .









Am I twisted for laughing at this?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

We're back.
It was a long trip but a pretty good one. DD slept really well while there and her behavior was normal, not crazy from food issues pretty much the entire time. I was very happy. Unfortunatly she now has a nasty cold so sleep is out the window again. I've lost track but I think this is cold #4 or #5 since the begining of Sept.







: I'm feeling quite depressed about her right now.

Now that I'm back I need to get some research done and get to ordering some probiotics, I think. I'm also planning to try goat yogurt again and see how dd does.

I think I agree with the idea that candida overgrowth is a symptom of your system being messed up and not necessarily the issue to fight head on. Not that getting your symptoms under control is a bad goal but ultimately killing off the bad guys won't do you any good if you don't have an army of good guys ready and willing to take over. And a system that will support their growth. I'm not really clear on how to get from here to there but I'm feeling like it is possible.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
My dd was also assessed at the final day and she is also tied in her labial and lingual frenulums. No suprise that she has digestive issues, as well as speech and dental (space between her two front teeth and bottom front teeth angle in) We are going to have her clipped soon.

Can you go into a little more detail about this? My DD also has the space between the top teeth and the bottom teeth angled in. I never noticed a tongue-tie, but as I am inspecting her tongue right now, it appears as if it's sort of forked when it's not laying flat. The only speech issue I notice is her problem with L's and R's (makes sense that she'd be tied if her tongue can't reach the top teeth to correctly make the sound), but honestly she's 26 months and I thought this would be something that would happen naturally in time. I also have a problem with her top teeth rubbing my nipples raw while she nurses (again, if she's tied, maybe her tongue cannot reach out far enough for her to get the top teeth off my areola?). Her digestion is definitely not optimal.

WOW! Thank you so much for posting this! It has truly been a lightbulb moment for me! I'm glad you have an inside track on what's going on with your babes! I am feeling that same way right now!!!

Samantha


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Peristalsis begins at the very tip of the tongue, so if it's anchored in any way you may not have a complete rhythm all the way through the digestive tract...the motion of peristalsis could be uneven. It then wouldn't puch things through efficiently.

It's really hard for me to describe how a tongue tie looks in a way that woul d be beneficial to you. My ds and dd could both always stick their tongue out past their lips though. One thing is when they cry their tongue looks kind of flat, where it should be a significant "u" shape. A posterior tongue tie is where they have full use of the front half, but the back half in anchored. Underneath the tongue there is often a white filmy bit of web like skin that most everyone thinks is normal. It wasn't until after ds was clipped the second time that I understood it wasn't!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

MommyofPunkiePie said:


> Can you go into a little more detail about this? My DD also has the space between the top teeth and the bottom teeth angled in. I never noticed a tongue-tie, but as I am inspecting her tongue right now, it appears as if it's sort of forked when it's not laying flat. The only speech issue I notice is her problem with L's and R's (makes sense that she'd be tied if her tongue can't reach the top teeth to correctly make the sound), but honestly she's 26 months and I thought this would be something that would happen naturally in time. I also have a problem with her top teeth rubbing my nipples raw while she nurses (again, if she's tied, maybe her tongue cannot reach out far enough for her to get the top teeth off my areola?). Her digestion is definitely not optimal.
> 
> WOW! Thank you so much for posting this! It has truly been a lightbulb moment for me! I'm glad you have an inside track on what's going on with your babes! I am feeling that same way right now!!!
> 
> Yeah, that's pretty much a tongue tie. Dd has the exact same speech stuff. If *could* resolve itself with work, but since dd has so many other issues I think I'm going to be more proactive about it.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

I'm wondering about the tongue tie, too. I'm not quite picturing what you all are talking about, but when dd was a baby, we noticed that her tongue had a definite indention down the center--kind of like it would be cleft, if the line went any deeper than superficially. I often wondered if maybe I had a slight folic acid deficiency or something when I was pg and that if it had been worse, she could have had a true structural problem. She's still too young to identify speech problems.

I'm getting a yogurt maker for Christmas, so I'll finally







: start making (coconut) yogurt. I'm really excited because it's so hard to get dd to take probiotics and this way, it will taste good and there will be so much more beneficial bacteria.

I think I finally found a corn-free enzyme by Kirkman's. I'm going to call them today. The next biggest challenge will be getting dd to take them.

I'm sorry for everyone that's feeling down. I had a big meltdown this weekend because I was so frustrated by these gut/allergy problems. It seems to consume all my energy and thoughts and my dh just doesn't get how emotionally taxing it is. I feel better now, but I had a rough Saturday.







:


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I picked up some myenburg goat milk today to make some goat yogurt for dd and see how she does with it. Is there any reason why she would tolerate the raw stuff better? I hate to go through the hassle of getting the raw for a one time test that doesn't pan out to her being able to eat it, kwim? But if it will make a difference I'll do it. If she can tolerate it I'll be getting raw goat milk from a local lady to make it with.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I picked up some myenburg goat milk today to make some goat yogurt for dd and see how she does with it. Is there any reason why she would tolerate the raw stuff better? I hate to go through the hassle of getting the raw for a one time test that doesn't pan out to her being able to eat it, kwim? But if it will make a difference I'll do it. If she can tolerate it I'll be getting raw goat milk from a local lady to make it with.

I've heard a lot of people say they can't tolerate pasturized (and all the Meyenburg I've seen is actually ultrapasturized) but do fine with raw...but with yogurt it may not make a difference. You might get better answers to this question on the Traditional Foods forum, though.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I picked up some myenburg goat milk today to make some goat yogurt for dd and see how she does with it. Is there any reason why she would tolerate the raw stuff better? I hate to go through the hassle of getting the raw for a one time test that doesn't pan out to her being able to eat it, kwim? But if it will make a difference I'll do it. If she can tolerate it I'll be getting raw goat milk from a local lady to make it with.

as caedmyn said, yogurt might be ok for a test. certainly kefir would work too (if you've got some grains already). just make sure you let it culture/ferment/incubate for a good long time. my experience with kefir is that the annoying proteins are broken down when i get maximal separation between curds and whey - any less time and i might as well be drinking storebought stuff. and that's using Organic Valley (cow) milk. raw milk here would require a 2hr roundtrip and at $2.35/gallon, i'm not up to that kind of trip.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

:

new to mdc (3wks) since i just got a computer after a 10yr break.

not so new to this topic, but learning a lot (read until 3am last nite














.

*wondering if anyone has tried water buffalo milk yogurt (woodstock brand, made in vermont).* is a water buffalo so close to a cow that it's just as likely to provoke a reaction?

dd1 had allergic issues as a baby, "grew out of them" with time and various interventions (elimination diet, NAET, candida cleanse, ...), but her eczema came back after we vax'd her for hep A prior to a trip to india 3 yrs ago (it was a tough choice, fear vs. fear), and has been here ever since, better and worse.

we try to eat things varied and in moderation, take probiotics,... i don't know if i have the wherewithall to try any drastic eliminations again. i buy the water buffalo yogurt because it's one more variety to add.

uh, oh,...apparently dd1 got her best freind's stomach flu after all. gtg.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

FF-As per your suggestion a while back I am trying colloidal silver on DS's eczema. It has only been 2 days but it is slowly getting better-he is not scratching anymore and that is a big step in keeping the infection down. I got a spray that is 10 ppm. I saw there is some gel that is 50 ppm, would that be too strong for his skin? Also can you tell me more about how often I can use it and for what duration (1 week, 1 month)? Is it ok for a little to get ingested? I am thinking it would be good to spray on his hands periodically and they are in the mouth constantly.

I also got some rescue remedy cream but have not tried it yet.

You continue to be a wealth of information!


----------



## my3peanuts (Nov 25, 2006)

Is it possible to jump in here as a newbie or should I start a different thread with my questions???

I'm new and really have no idea what "healing the gut" is about. I've read through the cheat sheet but I still feel lost. I guess I have a few questions.

Ds is 3 months and has recently been sick for two weeks with diarrhea/ frequent spitting/throwing up & fever. He's losing weight. He's now over the fever & diarrhea but is still spitting up much more frequently. He has also been battling thrush off and on continuously for the last 3 months & it's been mentioned to me that possibly the yeast overgrowth in my system & his are causing reflux and that in turn is causing him to lose weight.

I had been taking acidophilus but I've been on a dairy/egg elimination diet for two weeks so I stopped taking that.

So basically I'm looking for any advice you can give! thanks so much!!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Coconut milk yogurt recipe pretty please????!!!!

(or at least send me in the right direction to find it)


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Coconut milk yogurt recipe pretty please????!!!!

(or at least send me in the right direction to find it)

Me, too!!!!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
FF-As per your suggestion a while back I am trying colloidal silver on DS's eczema. It has only been 2 days but it is slowly getting better-he is not scratching anymore and that is a big step in keeping the infection down. I got a spray that is 10 ppm. I saw there is some gel that is 50 ppm, would that be too strong for his skin? Also can you tell me more about how often I can use it and for what duration (1 week, 1 month)? Is it ok for a little to get ingested? I am thinking it would be good to spray on his hands periodically and they are in the mouth constantly.

I also got some rescue remedy cream but have not tried it yet.

You continue to be a wealth of information!









Stick with the spray, use it as often as you need to until hte rash is gone. It's perfectly fine to get a bit in his mouth, just don't dose him with it (like a tsp a day or something...a bit as you spray is nothing.) Glad it's working...I always have success with it!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Coconut milk yogurt recipe pretty please????!!!!

(or at least send me in the right direction to find it)


2 cans coconut milk, 2 T. honey, 2 T. gelatin (I use 3) heated. Cool to 110ish and remove 1/4 cup. Add culture. Return to mix. Stir in 1 T. of vanilla. Incubate 10ish hours at 110. It tastes just like regular old yogurt. Gelatin makes it thick, 3 T. makes it really thick. IF you skip the gelatin it still has all the good bugs, it's just runny. Fine for smoothies though.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my3peanuts* 
Is it possible to jump in here as a newbie or should I start a different thread with my questions???

I'm new and really have no idea what "healing the gut" is about. I've read through the cheat sheet but I still feel lost. I guess I have a few questions.

Ds is 3 months and has recently been sick for two weeks with diarrhea/ frequent spitting/throwing up & fever. He's losing weight. He's now over the fever & diarrhea but is still spitting up much more frequently. He has also been battling thrush off and on continuously for the last 3 months & it's been mentioned to me that possibly the yeast overgrowth in my system & his are causing reflux and that in turn is causing him to lose weight.

I had been taking acidophilus but I've been on a dairy/egg elimination diet for two weeks so I stopped taking that.

So basically I'm looking for any advice you can give! thanks so much!!

You are right where a lot of us have been. My dd has a yeast overgrowth from antibiotics she got at birth, which I believe was the start of our leaky gut and food sensitivity problems.

If you are on a dairy elimination diet, you'll want to make sure that your probiotics are dairy free. They're hard to find, unfortunately. Right now, we're using UAS acidophilus and bifidus (we're free of dairy, corn, and soy) I take it and I give it to my baby. Since yours is so young, you can give it to him with your finger. And you should take it, too. The guts of infants and toddlers are predominantly colonized (or should be) with bifidus, so this is the strain you want to give your ds.

Others will have better advice about enzymes, but you should be taking them to aid in digestion. As I understand it, undigested proteins can leak into your blood stream where your body can begin to attack them as foreign invaders, leading to an allergy. They also get into your breastmilk where, if your baby's gut is leaky due to yeast, too, he can respond in the same way and develop an allergy/sensitivity. I don't think I'd give enzymes to a baby as young as yours.

We also take cod liver oil and coconut oil, vitamin C and zinc. I'm sure the others can chime in about what they are using.

One thing to know is that this problem usually doesn't go away quickly. It can take a long time.







Ask any questions you want and usually someone can shed some light.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Happy Birthday, Nolan!









I made my coconut milk yogurt with 1 can of coconut milk and 1 Tbsp of agave nectar. I heated it to about 110 degree, poured it into a pint size canning jar, and added about 1/2 tsp of whatever probiotics I wanted to use. I added flavoring after it was done...sometimes it was runny and sometimes it thickened up pretty well, especially after sitting in the fridge for a day or two. The Salton yogurt maker worked okay with a pint size jar--after a few runs of too cool or too warm yogurt, I figured out that putting a kitchen towel half over the top of the yogurt maker kept it at the right temperature.


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## my3peanuts (Nov 25, 2006)

Thanks Chinese pistache,

I've been doing lots of research basically trying to "diagnose" him myself because it seems the doctors are not very knowledgable/willing to tackle yeast issues. They continue to throw GV in our faces which is obviously not helping. Just recently have they mentioned testing his blood sugar, which I suppose is a possibility but I'd like to look at other possibilites as well.

I think my biggest problem is needing to cut sugar out of my diet. I admitingly do not have healthy eating habits and sugar is a big part of my diet. I'm finding it hard to cut dairy/eggs out as well because cheese & dairy have been large parts of my diet. I feel like I'm making my way to eating nothing!!









In the meantime I'm afraid if our problem is a leaky gut he will continue to lose weight until this problem is resolved. Being so young I worry about him losing weight.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Yes, I've tried that water buffalo yogurt, and it was kinda yucky. Too thick, and there was something off in the flavor, too. I prefer goat.

Nicole, once you cut sugar out, completely, you will stop craving it, especially if you get enough chromium, vanadium, and other trace minerals.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
The Salton yogurt maker worked okay with a pint size jar--after a few runs of too cool or too warm yogurt, I figured out that putting a kitchen towel half over the top of the yogurt maker kept it at the right temperature.

Okay, I called Salton today to see what temperature the maker retains throughout the course of incubation, and the woman said, "I don't know, but it works real good."







:

I have been testing the temp with water for two days now (I can't afford to have to trash a batch because it got too hot). Yesterday, with coolish tap water, the temp got up to 96* sfter 2-3 hours. Today, with room temperature tap water, the temp got up to 96* after two hours, and 105* after about eight hours. These tests were done with the plastic container and both of the lids on. Apparently, this is something I'm going to have to check every hour!

Is this temp too low to incubate?

Samantha


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie* 
Okay, I called Salton today to see what temperature the maker retains throughout the course of incubation, and the woman said, "I don't know, but it works real good."







:

I have been testing the temp with water for two days now (I can't afford to have to trash a batch because it got too hot). Yesterday, with coolish tap water, the temp got up to 96* sfter 2-3 hours. Today, with room temperature tap water, the temp got up to 96* after two hours, and 105* after about eight hours. These tests were done with the plastic container and both of the lids on. Apparently, this is something I'm going to have to check every hour!

Is this temp too low to incubate?

Samantha

I think it matters how warm your kitchen is. My parents kitchen is below grade and always cool/cold. They have found that they need a bowl over the top of the canning jar to keep it the perfect temp. I found that anything over the top of the canning jar was too hot and ruined the yogurt, in the summer, but my kitchen is usually quite warm. A glass canning jar isn't a good conductor of heat so that will make a difference too. I like using the glass jar because it is glass touching the yogurt and I can easily just put it in the fridge for storage w/o worrying about having the insert back for another run of yogurt.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie* 
Okay, I called Salton today to see what temperature the maker retains throughout the course of incubation, and the woman said, "I don't know, but it works real good."







:

I have been testing the temp with water for two days now (I can't afford to have to trash a batch because it got too hot). Yesterday, with coolish tap water, the temp got up to 96* sfter 2-3 hours. Today, with room temperature tap water, the temp got up to 96* after two hours, and 105* after about eight hours. These tests were done with the plastic container and both of the lids on. Apparently, this is something I'm going to have to check every hour!

Is this temp too low to incubate?

Samantha

105 would probably be okay. You need to start with water that's between 105 and 115, though, because that's the temperature your milk will be when you put it in the yogurt maker. When I used a glass quart jar, I just put the lid on the jar and no lid on the yogurt maker and that kept it at the right temperature...I think that is what most of the people who use the Salton do (glass canning jar, no lid on yogurt maker).


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I have tried water buffalo yogurt and quite like it. I can't stand any sort of goat milk.







I would use wb yogurt and mix it with my own coconut milk yogurt.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

I have lots of questions for you all today, so here goes --

DD is definately showing signs of being ready for solids. It's been going on a few weeks, so I don't think its a stage. She is nursing all the time, grabbing food from us (or trying!), and last night at dinner basically "shouted" at us the whole time in this really peeved sort of way. One time she got hold of some food off my plate and she had it to her mouth before I knew it (had to do the great fishing expedition to get it out!). So, I think I'm going to have to figure out something to give her. I've poured over the allergy scale lists and several things posted in the allergy boards about introducing solids to an allergic infant. I'm trying to decide between squash, green peas, and carrots - any advice on the choice? How big a deal is the nitrate thing for carrots? Some stuff I read makes it sound dire and other thing dismiss it completely. Also, what age is right for introducing bone broths?

Next set of questions - I'd like to try to up my supply to help with this issue, too. What can I do that is SCD legal? I'm not very astute in tealand, but all the ones I've seen premixed have things that aren't SCD legal. Obviously oatmeal is out -- any other foods known for helping out?

For those of you battling eczema - what age did it start with your kiddos?

As always, many, many thanks!


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I think I agree with the idea that candida overgrowth is a symptom of your system being messed up and not necessarily the issue to fight head on. Not that getting your symptoms under control is a bad goal but ultimately killing off the bad guys won't do you any good if you don't have an army of good guys ready and willing to take over. And a system that will support their growth. I'm not really clear on how to get from here to there but I'm feeling like it is possible.

I have been leaning this way myself. From what Ive read, lgs causes candida overgrowth, but/and vice versa. If you have yeast, you have leaky gut, but you had it before the yeast too, just not as bad. You have to address both (as you are all doing). Its the terrain vs. microbe debate, and the answer is, it's both. Yeast makes the terrain worse (alkalinizes the bowel, due to not enough good bugs making lactic acid ... but good bugs cannot do their job in an alkaline environment, so *just* adding these wil not restore balance in and of itself, because it doesnt address the terrain), but it was not healthy to begin with, to open the door to yeast overgrowth. And when you are doing everything *right* (diet, antifungals, enzymes, probiotics, direct intestinal healing - l-glutamine, aloe, zinc, vit. A, whatever - stress relief, detox) it still takes at least 9 mos, but I think more, to get balanced. I have been fighting the yeast without thinking about the whole picture. One source Ive read attributes a lot to stress, and not just the obvious kind. Dealing with what we all are causes a lot of obvious stress. There have been many studies showing how detrimental stress is to the intestines. It occurs to me that healing the gut could eliminate yeast, although thats not looking at the whole picture either







: Hope Im not being redundant here


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 

For those of you battling eczema - what age did it start with your kiddos?


At 8ish months, just after we introduced solids (which were not goods ones; we were in the middle of a move and gave lots of cereal bits and crackers). Her yeast rash emerged at the same time.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I made the coconut yogurt last night.

I'm not sure it worked. It was very yummy and firm (I made the recipe with the geletan) but not sour at all. I put it in the yogurt maker for 10hours. I also used culturelle, megadopholus and another probiotic I had in the fridge for a starter. I have used the megadopholis in the past for cow yogurt and it came out tasting like sour cream. This did not taste like sour cream but it did have 2T of agave nectar (avoiding honey since it makes dd







: ) and 1T of vanilla.

Thoughts???


----------



## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
I have been leaning this way myself. From what Ive read, lgs causes candida overgrowth, but/and vice versa. If you have yeast, you have leaky gut, but you had it before the yeast too, just not as bad. You have to address both (as you are all doing). Its the terrain vs. microbe debate, and the answer is, it's both. Yeast makes the terrain worse (alkalinizes the bowel, due to not enough good bugs making lactic acid ... but good bugs cannot do their job in an alkaline environment, so *just* adding these wil not restore balance in and of itself, because it doesnt address the terrain), but it was not healthy to begin with, to open the door to yeast overgrowth. And when you are doing everything *right* (diet, antifungals, enzymes, probiotics, direct intestinal healing - l-glutamine, aloe, zinc, vit. A, whatever - stress relief, detox) it still takes at least 9 mos, but I think more, to get balanced. I have been fighting the yeast without thinking about the whole picture. One source Ive read attributes a lot to stress, and not just the obvious kind. Dealing with what we all are causes a lot of obvious stress. There have been many studies showing how detrimental stress is to the intestines. It occurs to me that healing the gut could eliminate yeast, although thats not looking at the whole picture either







: Hope Im not being redundant here









I think this is so true. That's why it stresses me out so much that I can't seem to get my dd to take all the supplements that I need her to take, either because she refuses or because they contain our allergens.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

one more question - why am I now craving jelly beans??? I don't even normally like jelly beans, but the last 2 weeks, they are all I can think about. I've been SCD for about 4 months, and have hardly cheated at all. But now I've got this jelly bean on the brain thing going on, and I can't figure out why. I'm eating a good sea salt with lots of minerals and I'm eating lots of romaine, which has chromium. I can't think of anything else I've changed that might be triggering this unless I'm going through a second time of die-off and this is the bad bugs taking over my brain? Jelly beans - who would have ever thought???


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
I have lots of questions for you all today, so here goes --

DD is definately showing signs of being ready for solids. It's been going on a few weeks, so I don't think its a stage. She is nursing all the time, grabbing food from us (or trying!), and last night at dinner basically "shouted" at us the whole time in this really peeved sort of way. One time she got hold of some food off my plate and she had it to her mouth before I knew it (had to do the great fishing expedition to get it out!). So, I think I'm going to have to figure out something to give her. I've poured over the allergy scale lists and several things posted in the allergy boards about introducing solids to an allergic infant. I'm trying to decide between squash, green peas, and carrots - any advice on the choice? How big a deal is the nitrate thing for carrots? Some stuff I read makes it sound dire and other thing dismiss it completely. Also, what age is right for introducing bone broths?

Next set of questions - I'd like to try to up my supply to help with this issue, too. What can I do that is SCD legal? I'm not very astute in tealand, but all the ones I've seen premixed have things that aren't SCD legal. Obviously oatmeal is out -- any other foods known for helping out?

For those of you battling eczema - what age did it start with your kiddos?

As always, many, many thanks!









We started dd on squash (butternut), zucchini, pears, and avocado. It seemed like these were the only foods she ate for the longest time. (She didn't really like the zucchini but we threw it in there for variety.)

Just go slowly and introduce one thing at a time. We waited a week between introductions of new things.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
At 8ish months, just after we introduced solids (which were not goods ones; we were in the middle of a move and gave lots of cereal bits and crackers). Her yeast rash emerged at the same time.

ds's mild case emerged at 9 or 10 months - after we introduced some meat (he was low in iron and i figured meat was better than iron drops) and a few other things (can't remember what they were) - my milk production also decreased then (well, at least the amount i could pump decreased by about 4oz per day).

we're all off for some body work (CST) next week - for a tuneup before we go galavanting off to my parents' for the holidays.

so at what age do toddlers move out of the bifido-dominant gut microbe phase to the next stage (non-bifido-dominant) ?


----------



## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 

so at what age do toddlers move out of the bifido-dominant gut microbe phase to the next stage (non-bifido-dominant) ?

I thought I read that it can last up to 5 years old. Not sure where I heard that? From Jane, maybe? I dunno.


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
so at what age do toddlers move out of the bifido-dominant gut microbe phase to the next stage (non-bifido-dominant) ?

I think I read 2 yrs...


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I made the coconut yogurt last night.

I'm not sure it worked. It was very yummy and firm (I made the recipe with the geletan) but not sour at all. I put it in the yogurt maker for 10hours. I also used culturelle, megadopholus and another probiotic I had in the fridge for a starter. I have used the megadopholis in the past for cow yogurt and it came out tasting like sour cream. This did not taste like sour cream but it did have 2T of agave nectar (avoiding honey since it makes dd







: ) and 1T of vanilla.

Thoughts???

My coconut milk yogurt never got sour, either, but I could tell it worked by the smell. Different probiotics definitely have different tastes and make different tasting yogurt, so the mixture of probiotics you used may have made it taste totally different that when you just used megadopholis as a yogurt. Does it smell like yogurt? I had one batch that didn't work and it just smelled yucky.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
so at what age do toddlers move out of the bifido-dominant gut microbe phase to the next stage (non-bifido-dominant) ?

I read that at 5 years children's gut flora resembles that of an adult, so I guess it is a gradual process of changing up until then. I'd like to know a definite answer to this, too, if it exists.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
I have lots of questions for you all today, so here goes --

DD is definately showing signs of being ready for solids. It's been going on a few weeks, so I don't think its a stage. She is nursing all the time, grabbing food from us (or trying!), and last night at dinner basically "shouted" at us the whole time in this really peeved sort of way. One time she got hold of some food off my plate and she had it to her mouth before I knew it (had to do the great fishing expedition to get it out!). So, I think I'm going to have to figure out something to give her. I've poured over the allergy scale lists and several things posted in the allergy boards about introducing solids to an allergic infant. I'm trying to decide between squash, green peas, and carrots - any advice on the choice? How big a deal is the nitrate thing for carrots? Some stuff I read makes it sound dire and other thing dismiss it completely. Also, what age is right for introducing bone broths?

Next set of questions - I'd like to try to up my supply to help with this issue, too. What can I do that is SCD legal? I'm not very astute in tealand, but all the ones I've seen premixed have things that aren't SCD legal. Obviously oatmeal is out -- any other foods known for helping out?

For those of you battling eczema - what age did it start with your kiddos?

As always, many, many thanks!









Are you going to have her self-feed or give her pureed stuff? I wouldn't do peas if she's going to self-feed cuz she'll never digest them. My DD did okay with squash for a while. I think you can introduce bone broths as soon as you start solids (I did--they're really good for the gut).

Fenugreek tea is supposed to be good for boosting milk supply--if there isn't a tea that is SCD legal you can buy bulk fenugreek and make a tea with it.

My DD's eczema started at about 2.5 months of age, although it took me another couple of months to figure out what it was.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

nettles, blessed thistle, alfalfa and fenugreek are great for supply issues. Goat's rue is my personal best. It's different from person to person and depends largely on what is the root cause of supply problems. Sorry that's not very specific!


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

I went to the GI doctor. I was a little hopeful since he's a DO, but it turned out worse than I feared. The doctor was a total dick. I made it clear from the get go that I'd like to treat my issues as non-invasively as possible and I swear it seemed as though I was speaking another language. I must've told him three times that I don't want to take drugs (especially before I even know what's going on) and he wrote me two scripts. I was so ready to cry...I totally wasted my time. He recommended I have more stool/blood tests (to look for h pylori and other things) through Quest and then have a colonoscopy. How's that for non-invasive? And when I asked him what some natural things I could try might be he said yogurt...right after he told me to try and remove dairy from my diet. He also said, "You've been using acidophilus and that isn't working so you can either just deal with it or take prescription medication," as he wrote out the script for a drug I can't pronounce.
So, I'm stuck with three choices. 1. Do nothing except remove wheat/dairy from my diet entirely. That said, I'm not convinced that those are the main culprits for my issues. Sure, I think I'm reacting to them but I think I'm probably reacting to everything. I truly think my issue is more of a functional/motility issue than anything else. Of course the doing nothing leaves me wide open for it getting worse...and let me tell you...it sucks now. Constant gas, pain, loose stools, indigestion - just about every time I eat. I'm seemingly reacting to everything and my jars of supplements are not working. It's like whenever I eat the food just sits there...and then the gas starts. It's disgusting.
2. Call my primary doc and tell him what a jerk this GI doc was and see if he can write a script for those tests the GI doc asked me to take (the blood/stool analysis) and/or possibly get me in to see another GI doc...one that has a better bed side manner and is more open minded (if there is such a thing). Of course the risk there is I'll be wasting more time. I'm not so sure those blood/stool tests are consclusive - but that leads me to number 3. Do the enterolab tests. As I said, I think that food sensitivity might be just one of my problems stemming from something else. I could be wrong....but I eliminated all gluten and dairy from my diet a few weeks ago (for more than 2 weeks) and I felt better but not as great as I hoped.

I'm just tired of constantly fearing food and feeling bloated and shitty all day long.
Grrr. this is so frustrating. Thanks for listening to me vent.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz* 
I went to the GI doctor. I was a little hopeful since he's a DO, but it turned out worse than I feared. The doctor was a total dick. I made it clear from the get go that I'd like to treat my issues as non-invasively as possible and I swear it seemed as though I was speaking another language. I must've told him three times that I don't want to take drugs (especially before I even know what's going on) and he wrote me two scripts. I was so ready to cry...I totally wasted my time. He recommended I have more stool/blood tests (to look for h pylori and other things) through Quest and then have a colonoscopy. How's that for non-invasive? And when I asked him what some natural things I could try might be he said yogurt...right after he told me to try and remove dairy from my diet. He also said, "You've been using acidophilus and that isn't working so you can either just deal with it or take prescription medication," as he wrote out the script for a drug I can't pronounce.
So, I'm stuck with three choices. 1. Do nothing except remove wheat/dairy from my diet entirely. That said, I'm not convinced that those are the main culprits for my issues. Sure, I think I'm reacting to them but I think I'm probably reacting to everything. I truly think my issue is more of a functional/motility issue than anything else. Of course the doing nothing leaves me wide open for it getting worse...and let me tell you...it sucks now. Constant gas, pain, loose stools, indigestion - just about every time I eat. I'm seemingly reacting to everything and my jars of supplements are not working. It's like whenever I eat the food just sits there...and then the gas starts. It's disgusting.
2. Call my primary doc and tell him what a jerk this GI doc was and see if he can write a script for those tests the GI doc asked me to take (the blood/stool analysis) and/or possibly get me in to see another GI doc...one that has a better bed side manner and is more open minded (if there is such a thing). Of course the risk there is I'll be wasting more time. I'm not so sure those blood/stool tests are consclusive - but that leads me to number 3. Do the enterolab tests. As I said, I think that food sensitivity might be just one of my problems stemming from something else. I could be wrong....but I eliminated all gluten and dairy from my diet a few weeks ago (for more than 2 weeks) and I felt better but not as great as I hoped.

I'm just tired of constantly fearing food and feeling bloated and shitty all day long.
Grrr. this is so frustrating. Thanks for listening to me vent.

I don't know much about finding a better Dr. but if you felt at all better after just 2 weeks of eliminating gluten and diary I would stick with that longer. Dairy takes 6 weeks to work out of your system and wheat/gluten takes 6 months. 2 weeks is nothing. My Dr was shocked that I reacted to an exposure to wheat after having it out of my system for just 10 days. It usually takes much longer to see any improvement.

Remember that the foods you are reacting to are doing damage to your gut. Just eliminating them does not heal your gut. That takes time and the right tools.








I hear your frustration and I totally understand it.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

ericaz, I agree with Patty, if removing wheat and dairy helped, continue with it for at least a month. And maybe even try the SCD minus dairy for a month, to see if it would help even more. I know it seems daunting but it is doable. It just takes dedication and lots of time in the kitchen. Planning helps, if you can. Having the support of the rest of your family helps, too.


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Thanks Patty and Jen.
I guess I'm just concerned that I'm not getting to the root of the problem. I've had allergy tests done (through Great Smokies - a reputable alternative lab) and the only thing that showed up is that I'm mildly sensitive to casein. That was it. I know those tests can be inconclusive.

I'm going to give it a shot anyhow, but like I said I don't feel like that's the root of the problem. I do think those things exaserbate the condition, though. Does that make sense?

And, I've done this all before and I know it takes diligence. I just need to wrap my head around it.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz* 
I went to the GI doctor. I was a little hopeful since he's a DO, but it turned out worse than I feared. The doctor was a total dick. I made it clear from the get go that I'd like to treat my issues as non-invasively as possible and I swear it seemed as though I was speaking another language. I must've told him three times that I don't want to take drugs (especially before I even know what's going on) and he wrote me two scripts. I was so ready to cry...I totally wasted my time. He recommended I have more stool/blood tests (to look for h pylori and other things) through Quest and then have a colonoscopy. How's that for non-invasive? And when I asked him what some natural things I could try might be he said yogurt...right after he told me to try and remove dairy from my diet. He also said, "You've been using acidophilus and that isn't working so you can either just deal with it or take prescription medication," as he wrote out the script for a drug I can't pronounce.
So, I'm stuck with three choices. 1. Do nothing except remove wheat/dairy from my diet entirely. That said, I'm not convinced that those are the main culprits for my issues. Sure, I think I'm reacting to them but I think I'm probably reacting to everything. I truly think my issue is more of a functional/motility issue than anything else. Of course the doing nothing leaves me wide open for it getting worse...and let me tell you...it sucks now. Constant gas, pain, loose stools, indigestion - just about every time I eat. I'm seemingly reacting to everything and my jars of supplements are not working. It's like whenever I eat the food just sits there...and then the gas starts. It's disgusting.
2. Call my primary doc and tell him what a jerk this GI doc was and see if he can write a script for those tests the GI doc asked me to take (the blood/stool analysis) and/or possibly get me in to see another GI doc...one that has a better bed side manner and is more open minded (if there is such a thing). Of course the risk there is I'll be wasting more time. I'm not so sure those blood/stool tests are consclusive - but that leads me to number 3. Do the enterolab tests. As I said, I think that food sensitivity might be just one of my problems stemming from something else. I could be wrong....but I eliminated all gluten and dairy from my diet a few weeks ago (for more than 2 weeks) and I felt better but not as great as I hoped.

I'm just tired of constantly fearing food and feeling bloated and shitty all day long.
Grrr. this is so frustrating. Thanks for listening to me vent.










I'm going to echo the gluten thing about giving it more time. I know it's hard.

I'd probably try to get in to see another GI doc (I say that only because I had a *wonderful, wonderful, wonderful* one when I lived in NY and I know they're out there! I'm sure that any one you see though will want to order more stool tests.

Just MO, but you could have something serious that the GI doc could detect w/a simple stool test. I'd give it another shot.
Good luck.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Reposting this for anyone who knows: how long do I need to eliminate wheat/gluten before adding it back in to see if DD is intolerant of either of those (I know I asked this before but I forgot the answer)? And when I add foods back in, how long do I need to allow between food challenges? Also, would a tiny tiny piece of communion bread every week during the elimination period totally screw up the results/defeat the purpose of going gluten/wheat free?


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

ericaz - I second going to another GI. I dont know enough about the ivasive options to say try it or not, but if you really think its a structural thing and not an allergy thing, at least some testing could rule out *bad* things, so you still wouldnt know what is happening but you'd rule out some stuff. Hugs mama, Im sorry this is so bad right now!

Cademyn - can you relay the highlights from bacteria for breakfast. She endorses huge numbers of bacteria, right? Anything we'd like to hear?


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Thanks everyone. I just put a call into my primary doc's office since they're the one who referred me to this jerk GI doc.
I would love to find a knowledgeable, understanding, open-minded specialist. I agree that I need to keep looking.

Saskiasmom - The test he wanted to do is a colonoscopy and potentially a biopsy. While I don't think a colonoscopy is that invasive (but...ouchy!) I do think a biopsy is. I certainly wouldn't want that MFer in my a$$!







He strikes me as a slicing-happy fellow.







:
I just went out and bought some enzymes at my natural compounding pharmacy. I'm hoping that'll at least aid my digestion a bit better and get rid of this godawful gas.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz* 
Thanks Patty and Jen.
I guess I'm just concerned that I'm not getting to the root of the problem. I've had allergy tests done (through Great Smokies - a reputable alternative lab) and the only thing that showed up is that I'm mildly sensitive to casein. That was it. I know those tests can be inconclusive.

I'm going to give it a shot anyhow, but like I said I don't feel like that's the root of the problem. I do think those things exaserbate the condition, though. Does that make sense?

And, I've done this all before and I know it takes diligence. I just need to wrap my head around it.

Erica, I agree that elimination to wheat and gluten would be a good idea. But if that doesn't work for you, you might try corn.

Through elimination, I knew dd was allergic to dairy. But there was always some other ingredient out there that was causing her eczema to flare. I sometimes thought it was soy (since she'd flare badly after eating Chinese food). Other times, I thought it was wheat because she'd flare after eating grain products (only sometimes, though). Since we got the corn diagnosis, it's all come together. The corn starch in Chinese food was giving her the reaction, not soy. And in so many commercially made grain products, you find corn derivatives (maltodextrin, dextrose, ascorbic acid, etc.). In fact, corn is in just about everything, including iodized salt and canned tomatoes. (Here's a list, if you're interested: http://www.cornallergens.com/list/co...ergen-list.php)

I throw this out there because I would never in a million years have guessed we had a corn problem. I also wouldn't have guessed that *I* had a problem with it; I've only been eliminating it because I'm still bfing dd. But I've had this little dry crusty spot on my face for over 3 years. I had it burned off once by a derm because I thought it might be a pre-cancer. It just came back and I didn't pursue its cause any further. But now that we've gone corn-free (a little over a month), it's cleared up.

I'm on a corn allergy board and the range of symptoms that the women experience is VERY broad. I feel like we are definitely on the mild end of the problem.

Anyway, this may not be relevant to you at all, but in case wheat doesn't work, you might try corn.

I hope you can find a better GI, too!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Reposting this for anyone who knows: how long do I need to eliminate wheat/gluten before adding it back in to see if DD is intolerant of either of those (I know I asked this before but I forgot the answer)? And when I add foods back in, how long do I need to allow between food challenges? Also, would a tiny tiny piece of communion bread every week during the elimination period totally screw up the results/defeat the purpose of going gluten/wheat free?

For us it was clear after 10 days, but i have heard that is a short time. I would go a full month. I did take communion for the first 6 weeks or so but then it caused me so much stomach upset the last time I took it that I haven't taken it since.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
ericaz - I second going to another GI. I dont know enough about the ivasive options to say try it or not, but if you really think its a structural thing and not an allergy thing, at least some testing could rule out *bad* things, so you still wouldnt know what is happening but you'd rule out some stuff. Hugs mama, Im sorry this is so bad right now!

Cademyn - can you relay the highlights from bacteria for breakfast. She endorses huge numbers of bacteria, right? Anything we'd like to hear?

I'm not Cademyn but I did just read Bacteria for Breakfast.

It isn't just about high numbers of bacteria but also about getting the right kind and getting them in such a way that they do you some good. All the research that has been done that has shown improvement has used at least 100billion cells a day. Also getting several different kinds at once is better than just lots of one kind. Making sure it is manufactured and stored correctly is also extremely important. Apparently manufacturing practices can make the bacteria not work as well so at least one strain of probiotic bacteria that preformed really well in testing many years ago is now useless because of how is has been maintained in manufacturing. Some probiotics just can't thrive w/o milk for example.

Also it seems that the earlier you get the gut sorted out the better. They raised mice with sterile gi systems and then tried to introduce good bacteria. It worked just fine, in the neonatal period but once the mice were older they couldn't fix the gut bacteria. It isn't clear how this translates to messed up gut flora (as opposed to simply no gut flora) but it seems clear that the sooner you get it fixed the more likely it is to work long term.

There were some studies done of children in Sweden and children in Estonia. The Estonian children had much better gut flora. It is assumed that this is becasue their environment is much less sterile and becasue they would be eating lots of lacto fermented veggies. Children from both countries with food allergies had gut flora that resembled gut flora after a round of abx, but there were far fewer children in Estonia with food allergies compared to Sweden.

There are lots of studies if you know how to look for them. She sites tons of them in the book. I have several highlighted that I plan to search for once I get a little time, either on line or at a library at one of the local medical schools (there are at least 2 in my city).

Really you need to get the book and read it for yourself. I need to read it about 3 more times to really understand how the gut and immune system functions. I'm still trying to sort out the terms etc so that I can talk about it intellegently.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Thanks for doing that summary, Pattyla--you did a much better job than I would have done







I definitely second reading the book yourself--IMO it's a must-read for everyone on this thread.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
There are lots of studies if you know how to look for them. She sites tons of them in the book. I have several highlighted that I plan to search for once I get a little time, either on line or at a library at one of the local medical schools (there are at least 2 in my city).


being that i work at a .edu with a superb library collection, if you need anything, just PM me and ask.


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Erica, I agree that elimination to wheat and gluten would be a good idea. But if that doesn't work for you, you might try corn.

Through elimination, I knew dd was allergic to dairy. But there was always some other ingredient out there that was causing her eczema to flare. I sometimes thought it was soy (since she'd flare badly after eating Chinese food). Other times, I thought it was wheat because she'd flare after eating grain products (only sometimes, though). Since we got the corn diagnosis, it's all come together. The corn starch in Chinese food was giving her the reaction, not soy. And in so many commercially made grain products, you find corn derivatives (maltodextrin, dextrose, ascorbic acid, etc.). In fact, corn is in just about everything, including iodized salt and canned tomatoes. (Here's a list, if you're interested: http://www.cornallergens.com/list/co...ergen-list.php)

I throw this out there because I would never in a million years have guessed we had a corn problem. I also wouldn't have guessed that *I* had a problem with it; I've only been eliminating it because I'm still bfing dd. But I've had this little dry crusty spot on my face for over 3 years. I had it burned off once by a derm because I thought it might be a pre-cancer. It just came back and I didn't pursue its cause any further. But now that we've gone corn-free (a little over a month), it's cleared up.

I'm on a corn allergy board and the range of symptoms that the women experience is VERY broad. I feel like we are definitely on the mild end of the problem.

Anyway, this may not be relevant to you at all, but in case wheat doesn't work, you might try corn.

I hope you can find a better GI, too!

Good point! I think I really need to start with the gluten and dairy and then take it from there once I have an idea of how I'm feeling without those things. KWIM?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
being that i work at a .edu with a superb library collection, if you need anything, just PM me and ask.

I would take you up on this but some of these studies are hundreds of pages and I'm not sure what I'm looking for. I just want to try to read the whole thing and see what I can get.

I'll need to look at my book and see what they are that I highlighted that seem like it would have more info in the study.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Reposting this for anyone who knows: how long do I need to eliminate wheat/gluten before adding it back in to see if DD is intolerant of either of those (I know I asked this before but I forgot the answer)? And when I add foods back in, how long do I need to allow between food challenges? Also, would a tiny tiny piece of communion bread every week during the elimination period totally screw up the results/defeat the purpose of going gluten/wheat free?

Yes it would, but you can ask your church to get gluten free communion wafers. It's inexpensive and they should be happy to accomodate.

As to your other question...at least 6 weeks eliminated before you try it back. I would personally go more like 12 weeks. I would introduce no more than one food a week, but given how *my* kids react to things, I try one a month in this house. There are some things that they have cumulative results to and it takes a period of time for them to show up. Hope that helps...if you need more info on the wafers let me know.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Yes it would, but you can ask your church to get gluten free communion wafers. It's inexpensive and they should be happy to accomodate.

As to your other question...at least 6 weeks eliminated before you try it back. I would personally go more like 12 weeks. I would introduce no more than one food a week, but given how *my* kids react to things, I try one a month in this house. There are some things that they have cumulative results to and it takes a period of time for them to show up. Hope that helps...if you need more info on the wafers let me know.

Well hopefully I'll start seeing improvement in the next month or so and won't have to try to go gluten or wheat free. I think if I do a trial I will just have to bring my own communion bread--the way it works at my church is a different person is in charge of preparing communion each month and most people make their own bread, so it'd be pretty complicated trying to get gluten-free bread each month. If she was confirmed celiac (can you be gluten-intolerant without being celiac?) I wouldn't mind requesting that they order gluten-free wafers but just for a trial it's not worth bothering anybody.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Yes it would, but you can ask your church to get gluten free communion wafers. It's inexpensive and they should be happy to accomodate.

As to your other question...at least 6 weeks eliminated before you try it back. I would personally go more like 12 weeks. I would introduce no more than one food a week, but given how *my* kids react to things, I try one a month in this house. There are some things that they have cumulative results to and it takes a period of time for them to show up. Hope that helps...if you need more info on the wafers let me know.










OMG I never even thought of communion wafers! And dh and I kind of kid around that Sunday night is the sleeplessness night in our house.

I can't BELIEVE I never thought of that . . .


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Pattyla - THANK YOU!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Darn it, DD had a green mucusy stool again this afternoon. Any ideas on whether it was mostly like caused by something I ate on Sunday (peanut butter) or something I ate yesterday (pecans)? Or could the nettle infusion and slippery elm bark powder I started giving her the day before yesterday have caused it?





















ETA: I also started eating raw garlic again the last couple of days after about a month break from it--could that have caused the green stool? I ate raw garlic with lunch and her green stool was a few hours later, although she'd had a normal stool in the morning.

Am I the only one who wonders if it's even possible to heal their DC?


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
For those of you battling eczema - what age did it start with your kiddos?

dd1's eczema actually didn't start until 18mos, just after a trip to hawaii. inside folds of knees and elbows, lots of nighttime scratching. i couldn't tie it to any new food, it persisted about a year, got 50% better after NAET/candida cleanse (herbs, elimination diet, probiotics, enzymes), almost all the way better by the next winter. then we were going to india and had her vaxed for hep A. she flared immediately, it got worse while we were there, (hot, humid, spent a lot of time in the shower to keep cool...), and has been better/worse ever since (3 yrs). tried CST, she referred us to chinese medicine, which is what we're doing now: daily herbs and monthly accupuncture.

i read (?here) about colloidal silver spray for eczema and started that yesterday. she was fine the first spray, then screamed that it stung the next two times (probably because she'd scratched raw in the night). now i'm not sure what to do.

questions:

more info/link about colloidal silver? is it just for infection control? (i know it's used for wound care in nonhealing diabetic ulcers)

anybody else hear of/try NAET?

re: my earlier water buffalo yogurt question, does anyone know how closely related cows and water buffalo are? (re: is it just more of the same protien?)


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
questions:

more info/link about colloidal silver? is it just for infection control? (i know it's used for wound care in nonhealing diabetic ulcers)

anybody else hear of/try NAET?


I thought colloidal silver was an anti-fungal and anti-bacterial, so I don't think it will help the eczema per se, but it will keep it from becoming infected.

I am curious about NAET, too. I read about it the other night, and found a couple practitioners in my town. I'd love to hear others' experiences before spending the money, though.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

nak...

colloidal silver doesn't in any way treat eczema, just helps with infection, it will also help if there's anything fungal going on. I did find that rescue remedy cream and tamanu oil are both great topically for eczema.

water buffalo-it's really the same protein: casein. IMO if you react to cow you're best course of action is to avoid all dairy. I find with the benefit of time most find that they thought they could tolerate another animal's milk (goat, sheep, water buffalo etc...) but it caused a halt in the healing process. Try it yourself if you'd like, but I personally wouldn't suggest it.

Caedmyn-I don't like the mucusy part. If it were just green I would have said maybe nettles. It is doubtful though when you add the gunk in. I'm sorry you are so frustrated! I think we all wonder from time to time...


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

:


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
water buffalo-it's really the same protein: casein.

sorry if i'm being dense here, but is casein the same structurally (ie sequence of amino acids, 3D shape once it folds up) no matter what animal makes it? there's no difference one to the next? i thought it was different, and that's why some people who can't tolerate cow can tolerate goat; that a person would have antibodies specifically to cow milk casien/whey, which would not bind to goat/other animal protiens.

feeling very confused...


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I am having the worst face rash explosion ever. It kind of errupted yesterday. This is now the 3rd time in like 6 weeks that this has happened, the first and 3rd times being the worst. My one eye is so swollen that it is only half open. I don't know if it started then, but I first felt my skin getting red, bumpy and itchy while eating breakfast and got too much cinnamen. I often eat cinnamen, but I dumped too much and actually choked/coughed from it.

I have never had any skin problems and certainly not exema, but I am starting to wonder. Could it just start like that? Although this time it is not flakey, but red, itchy, swollen and on my eyelids, rather sore.

I do not know how it ties into my GI issues, but of course, I know that it does. I still have fairly severe bloating, not so much constipation, occassional gas and the latest is gastritis. I started taking prilosec and am now trying nexium to stop the horrible pain that I was having, which is helping that.

My doctor really is useless with this stuff, so I need to find a new one. I am also not working much due to all this stuff going on, so money is not plentiful to go to alternative practicioners. I am now strongly considering allergy testing.

Does anyone have any insight into any of this for me? I just really don't quite know what to do. I am using vit E, which helps alittle, but only for a very short while.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Moonshine,
From what I've read, the immediate and progressively worse reactions can be anaphylaxsis. I would be concerned about eating cinnamon any more. Have you had any allergy testing done? Maybe post at the allergy board and see what those ladies think.

I'm sorry you're feeling crummy. I hope the reaction clears up quickly.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
I am having the worst face rash explosion ever. It kind of errupted yesterday. This is now the 3rd time in like 6 weeks that this has happened, the first and 3rd times being the worst. My one eye is so swollen that it is only half open. I don't know if it started then, but I first felt my skin getting red, bumpy and itchy while eating breakfast and got too much cinnamen. I often eat cinnamen, but I dumped too much and actually choked/coughed from it.

I have never had any skin problems and certainly not exema, but I am starting to wonder. Could it just start like that? Although this time it is not flakey, but red, itchy, swollen and on my eyelids, rather sore.

I do not know how it ties into my GI issues, but of course, I know that it does. I still have fairly severe bloating, not so much constipation, occassional gas and the latest is gastritis. I started taking prilosec and am now trying nexium to stop the horrible pain that I was having, which is helping that.

My doctor really is useless with this stuff, so I need to find a new one. I am also not working much due to all this stuff going on, so money is not plentiful to go to alternative practicioners. I am now strongly considering allergy testing.

Does anyone have any insight into any of this for me? I just really don't quite know what to do. I am using vit E, which helps alittle, but only for a very short while.

Do you believe what some people say about one's body changing every 7 years or so? I've been hearing that a lot from people lately.

I'm not going to be any help to you except to say to stay away from cinnamon, but I did want to say that I had a similar thing happen over Thanksgiving.

I took *one* aspirin - for the first time since before I conceived dd1 (So, like 4 years or so?) and I totally broke out in hives immediately from my head to my toes.

I'd never, ever had a reaction to aspirin (or anything else for that matter - with the exception of hives from beets this past summer.)

So, the only explanation I have is that my body is changing and now maybe I'm *allergic* to aspirin.









I agree w/CP though, sounds scary and you don't want to risk an anaphylactic reaction. I don't either so I won't be taking another aspirin any time soon.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I have actually had someone say to me that maybe my body is going through the 7 year change. My hair has changed repeatedly (and fairly drastically) since I was little. I didn't note ages exactly, but about 7 years sounds right.

As an adult, I haven't experienced so many changes, although just recently noticed that my my hair is going back to being curly. However, I was eating cinnamon as recently has the day before.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
So, the only explanation I have is that my body is changing and now maybe I'm *allergic* to aspirin.










could it be a sensitivty to salicylates? how do you react to other high salicylate foods?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
could it be a sensitivty to salicylates? how do you react to other high salicylate foods?

Fine with others (although this did happen over the summer after eating beets, but beets aren't high in salicylates are they?)

And I've never, ever had any kind of reaction to anything before. (Well, other than what we talk about here like gas, bloating etc.) But no skin things, hives, rashes, excema, . .


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

cinnamon, if you recall, is bark from a tree.

turns out there are several reports of cinnamon allergies (bronchial constriction and skin rashes):

http://www.fastq.com/~jbpratt/recipe...allergies.html
http://www.kroger.com/hn/Herb/Cinnamon.htm
http://www.personalhealthzone.com/he...e_effects.html


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
sorry if i'm being dense here, but is casein the same structurally (ie sequence of amino acids, 3D shape once it folds up) no matter what animal makes it? there's no difference one to the next? i thought it was different, and that's why some people who can't tolerate cow can tolerate goat; that a person would have antibodies specifically to cow milk casien/whey, which would not bind to goat/other animal protiens.

feeling very confused...

not necessarily. depending on where in the structure those differences lie, a change in the underlying nucleotide sequence could render the protein useless (e.g., 1 nucleotide change in a specific location in hemoglobin causes sickle cell anemia).

buffalos are in the subfamily with cows. so those proteins aren't going to be dramatically different. you'd be better off drinking horse milk.

some heavy-duty links:
http://tolweb.org/Eutheria/15997 -- the tree of life (taxonomy) for the mammals.

http://pfam.janelia.org/cgi-bin/getdesc?name=Casein -- the PFAM (Protein FAMily) page for casein. to see the sequences, select "Full" and "hyperlinked plain text" then click the button... then wait. to see the structural features depicted in 2D, select "full" and click the button. to see casein distribution across the taxonomy, use the 3rd column and keep drilling down.

http://content.febsjournal.org/cgi/c...ll/270/17/3651 -- humans have a lower % of caseins in their milk than do ruminants. human casein proteins are also less phosphorylated than are caseins in ruminant milk. there's a strech of sequence that is highly conserved among ruminants (and also highly phosphorylated); but that same stretch has some deletion in humans. email me if you want a full copy and can't get it yourself.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Moonshine - so the rash erupted soon after the cinnamon? I too have had a rash on my eyelid for mos, since the start of all my probs (preg, staress, loss, stress, abx....). I know you have ruled yeast out. I started nystatin 2 wks ago and my rash is almost completely gone. Somewhere in the middle of the 4 mos, I started getting heartburn and a sore throat, which ENT said is reflux (after scope) although I never feel it. Basically really bad upper GI discomfort. I have found that there is a link btwn dysbiosis and upper GI symptoms, but of course no GI's know about it (duh, its the same tube). I have read that 3 likely causes of heartburn/gastritis/reflux are yeast, or allergy, or h. pylori. In my case, Inm hoping its all yeast and in time both ends of my tract will be better







In your case, could you have a bacterial issue causing the gas, bloating, etc, that is now also causing upper GI stuff (and leaky gut would account for the rash). There is an MD who believes that all the symptoms you and I have, from yeast to reflux to rashes is at core leaky gut; lgs opens the door to bad bugs, which changes digestion which affects stomach acid and on and on. He (walt stoll) also beleieves that lgs is largely due to stress (in addition to nsaids, abx, coffee, etc) - didnt the medical intuitive say your probs are largely stress related? Have you had any testing (stool)? I know my rash would come and go with my yeast treatments..... Im so sorry its getting worse







: Oh, and the antacids are bad news, if you can stand to not use them. Stomach acid is protective. Have you tested for h. pylori? There are herbs (DGL, even pepto bismol) that can get rid of it over time (instead of the abx MD's will want to throw at it). Theres a book called heartburn free in 30 days (or something cheesy like that) by Sherry Rodgers that talks about upper GI stuff and the alternative treatments. I got it from the library. Hugs


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Fine with others (although this did happen over the summer after eating beets, but beets aren't high in salicylates are they?)

And I've never, ever had any kind of reaction to anything before. (Well, other than what we talk about here like gas, bloating etc.) But no skin things, hives, rashes, excema, . .

http://www.zipworld.com.au/~ataraxy/...ates_list.html
http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionsensitivities.htm

beets are apparently "moderate" - why did i think they were higher?

and don't forget with beets that if your pee is pink then you've got an inability to digest/breakdown the pink-causing natural coloring agent. i think MT said it was insufficient HCl.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

so while we were away over thanksgiving, i thought we had escaped the bad effects that we usually feel (intestinally, that is). we came home and jump-started the dormant kefir in the fridge, and mixed it with the grains we had taken to the ILs. whoa - that combination was disastrous - very sour. and then we started having an minor intestinal collapse.

ds had been chewing hands and other stuff, including some minor eczematous areas on his face. it all pointed to yeast. however, magically, the drooling and hand sucking and stuff went away after a few days of homemade pickles and sauerkraut. but the rash remains.

dh and i have been eating a fair amount of beans. well, we had barley the other night and now have it on the "DO NOT EAT" list. anyhow, we still weren't happy with the kefir so... I DUMPED 4 JARS OF GRAINS and am now starting over. it's slow going but this batch tastes so much better than the batches we dumped.

we've all got ND appointments next week. it's funny - i was describing the symptoms to the ND over the phone (just for ds) - weekly weekend constipation, rash, chewing on things, lots of night-time nursing... he asked what i was doing - probiotics when ds complies, lactofermented food (pickles, sauerkraut, kefir), TTO/EVOO on the rash, etc. he asked what i thought it was - perhaps yeast. to which he replied that the symptoms seemed to match, but that some bodywork might help alleviate things. he's a funny little English man, my ND. (we had once talked about how there's a 3-way direct connection between the lumbar/sacral vertebrae and the gut and the vagus nerve)

in the meantime, dh has ASKED for simpler meals - like meat and veggies, no grains, no legumes.







this is the man who used to require bread with every meal. i'm also thinking that we need to go back to glutamine for a bit - kinda like a restart of sorts. dh is toying with the idea of doing another cleanse though i'm thinking he doesn't need it.

as for the 7-year thing... it seems that i have personally experienced major life changes almost every 7 years - which would explain why my system changes a bit along with those events. doesn't that correspond also with the hypothetical 7-year marriage itch?


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## mama-a-llama (Feb 8, 2006)

Augh! Ds's eczema is worse. I was going to start SCD after holidays, but now that I've cut back on pumping, I just don't make enough. We're trying to introduce solids again, but that will take time, and he's going to need a formula in the mean time







: And I can't find any formula that's SCD legal. I know there's the thing in BTVC about the temporary formula until one can be found. But I sure don't see any--these are pediatric, not infant formulas, BTW. And whatever we get, his ped has to sign off on it so ins/medical assistance will cover it, b/c these medical foods are EXPENSIVE.

I want to help him get better, but I don't know how! I feel like I'm failing him.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
Moonshine - so the rash erupted soon after the cinnamon? I too have had a rash on my eyelid for mos, since the start of all my probs (preg, staress, loss, stress, abx....). I know you have ruled yeast out. I started nystatin 2 wks ago and my rash is almost completely gone. Somewhere in the middle of the 4 mos, I started getting heartburn and a sore throat, which ENT said is reflux (after scope) although I never feel it. Basically really bad upper GI discomfort. I have found that there is a link btwn dysbiosis and upper GI symptoms, but of course no GI's know about it (duh, its the same tube). I have read that 3 likely causes of heartburn/gastritis/reflux are yeast, or allergy, or h. pylori. In my case, Inm hoping its all yeast and in time both ends of my tract will be better







In your case, could you have a bacterial issue causing the gas, bloating, etc, that is now also causing upper GI stuff (and leaky gut would account for the rash). There is an MD who believes that all the symptoms you and I have, from yeast to reflux to rashes is at core leaky gut; lgs opens the door to bad bugs, which changes digestion which affects stomach acid and on and on. He (walt stoll) also beleieves that lgs is largely due to stress (in addition to nsaids, abx, coffee, etc) - didnt the medical intuitive say your probs are largely stress related? Have you had any testing (stool)? I know my rash would come and go with my yeast treatments..... Im so sorry its getting worse







: Oh, and the antacids are bad news, if you can stand to not use them. Stomach acid is protective. Have you tested for h. pylori? There are herbs (DGL, even pepto bismol) that can get rid of it over time (instead of the abx MD's will want to throw at it). Theres a book called heartburn free in 30 days (or something cheesy like that) by Sherry Rodgers that talks about upper GI stuff and the alternative treatments. I got it from the library. Hugs

I don't know if the rash was instanteous after the cinnamon, or if I just noticed it then.

Could I really have leaky gut if my kids never seemed affected by me? They really have no issues in this way. Thank goodness. DD2 is still nursing a bit, but I think that she is weaning so not that much anymore.

Big surprise that the antacids are bad news. I'll have to look into what I can take because before before I started them, I was in bed moaning and groaning for almost two weeks. The last time I had coffee I was so ill that I was afraid to carry DD2 sleeping upstairs, for fear that I would drop her. That pretty much got me off coffee. I can't even do black (caffeinated) tea.

I also have some reflux thing going on, which I also never have had before. I still don't know what heartburn feels like, but since this started, I have had to spit alot. And my throat feels a bit full, IYKWIM. Not the pill thing that you had. I also burp alot right after eating.

I have had no testing, as I said, my doctor is a bit useless. Well, I did have the usual round of blood testing back when I saw him initially back in the spring and nothing was abnormal. I need to find the energy to find a new one, or figure out what I need for tests and tell him so.

And I have been thinking of calling the psychic again. I need some direction!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

mama-a-llama said:


> Augh! Ds's eczema is worse. I was going to start SCD after holidays, but now that I've cut back on pumping, I just don't make enough. We're trying to introduce solids again, but that will take time, and he's going to need a formula in the mean time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
I don't know if the rash was instanteous after the cinnamon, or if I just noticed it then.

Could I really have leaky gut if my kids never seemed affected by me? They really have no issues in this way. Thank goodness. DD2 is still nursing a bit, but I think that she is weaning so not that much anymore.

Big surprise that the antacids are bad news. I'll have to look into what I can take because before before I started them, I was in bed moaning and groaning for almost two weeks. The last time I had coffee I was so ill that I was afraid to carry DD2 sleeping upstairs, for fear that I would drop her. That pretty much got me off coffee. I can't even do black (caffeinated) tea.

I also have some reflux thing going on, which I also never have had before. I still don't know what heartburn feels like, but since this started, I have had to spit alot. And my throat feels a bit full, IYKWIM. Not the pill thing that you had. I also burp alot right after eating.

I have had no testing, as I said, my doctor is a bit useless. Well, I did have the usual round of blood testing back when I saw him initially back in the spring and nothing was abnormal. I need to find the energy to find a new one, or figure out what I need for tests and tell him so.

And I have been thinking of calling the psychic again. I need some direction!

Moonshine-did you ever do the HCL test? Reflux, heartburn, bloating, LGS can all be linked to too little acid. I think Jane put a link in the cheat sheet.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I was going to respond to the casein question, but the links say it all. You can always count on bluets!

So, I am getting my milk tested. Weird, huh? My IBCLC and two other specialists (docs) are thinking the problem may be that I have too much fat in my milk. Ds is still having issues, but on top of structural stuff it looks like this could be a possibility. I feel weird sending it off to a lab though! I often joke with my LC that I'm making her twice the practitioner that she was because my kids and I have such weird issues...it's like we're always the exception to the rule!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Moonshine-did you ever do the HCL test? Reflux, heartburn, bloating, LGS can all be linked to too little acid. I think Jane put a link in the cheat sheet.

Yes, I did. At the time (this summer) I tested as having too low. I am almost scared to try it again now, but I guess it wouldn't hurt. My symtoms now are completely different -- well, the bloating remains constant.







: I thought the burping was symtomatic of too much acid.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Someone posted this to another board I read: http://dogtorj.tripod.com/id26.html It's about leaky gut and I thought it might be of interest to you.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

thanks bluets!


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Moonshine - I dont know about the leaky gut thing. My kids are fine too, more or less (thank god), and yet one week of abx has f***ed me. Seems like I had to have something going on to open the door (but Id take that something, with no symptoms again please!), so I dont really understand it. As for the burping, etc. this can definitely be caused by too low stomach acid. Taking enzymes and/or HCL sometimes helps with these symptoms, although didnt help me. You can try supplementing hcl and see. Could your useless doc at least test for h. pylori? Is it a burning sensation? Get that heartburn book I mentioned, it talks about al the symptoms of upper GI stuff and ways to treat it.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

The burping can be an imbalance in either direction, but it's most commonly associated (as far as I know) with low stomach acid.

Caedmyn-did Harry have any recommendations as to which strains he wants you to do? Why did I think you had already tried that?

An elimination diet can be very helpful if used to isolate as opposed to treat. The problem comes in when you realize you can't possible isolate everything-KWIM? If I had used an elimination diet I never would have figured things out. My dd was reactive to so much, and some of it so random. It is a place to start though...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
Caedmyn-did Harry have any recommendations as to which strains he wants you to do? Why did I think you had already tried that?

An elimination diet can be very helpful if used to isolate as opposed to treat. The problem comes in when you realize you can't possible isolate everything-KWIM? If I had used an elimination diet I never would have figured things out. My dd was reactive to so much, and some of it so random. It is a place to start though...

He recommended just acidophilus and b. bifidum, but I think she needs more strains than that. The studies I've seen on eczema in babies have used l. rhamnosus and lactobacillus GG (I think), and I think she should still be getting b. infantis at this age. I'm thinking I want a blend of l. acidophilus, planetarum, rhamnosus, salivarus, and possibly reuteri, along with b. bifidum and infantis. I think I want either a 50-50 or 40-60 split of lactobacillus to bifidobacteria. (And there are probably lots of spelling errors in that paragraph.)

I just don't know what else to do at this point. It seems like nothing really helps her, and the things that I think will help, like yogurt or water kefir or coconut milk kefir, are really hard to get into her. Actually everything but probiotics and CLO is really hard to get into her.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
so while we were away over thanksgiving, i thought we had escaped the bad effects that we usually feel (intestinally, that is). we came home and jump-started the dormant kefir in the fridge, and mixed it with the grains we had taken to the ILs. whoa - that combination was disastrous - very sour. and then we started having an minor intestinal collapse.

ds had been chewing hands and other stuff, including some minor eczematous areas on his face. it all pointed to yeast. however, magically, the drooling and hand sucking and stuff went away after a few days of homemade pickles and sauerkraut. but the rash remains.

dh and i have been eating a fair amount of beans. well, we had barley the other night and now have it on the "DO NOT EAT" list. anyhow, we still weren't happy with the kefir so... I DUMPED 4 JARS OF GRAINS and am now starting over. it's slow going but this batch tastes so much better than the batches we dumped.

we've all got ND appointments next week. it's funny - i was describing the symptoms to the ND over the phone (just for ds) - weekly weekend constipation, rash, chewing on things, lots of night-time nursing... he asked what i was doing - probiotics when ds complies, lactofermented food (pickles, sauerkraut, kefir), TTO/EVOO on the rash, etc. he asked what i thought it was - perhaps yeast. to which he replied that the symptoms seemed to match, but that some bodywork might help alleviate things. he's a funny little English man, my ND. (we had once talked about how there's a 3-way direct connection between the lumbar/sacral vertebrae and the gut and the vagus nerve)

in the meantime, dh has ASKED for simpler meals - like meat and veggies, no grains, no legumes.







this is the man who used to require bread with every meal. i'm also thinking that we need to go back to glutamine for a bit - kinda like a restart of sorts. dh is toying with the idea of doing another cleanse though i'm thinking he doesn't need it.

as for the 7-year thing... it seems that i have personally experienced major life changes almost every 7 years - which would explain why my system changes a bit along with those events. doesn't that correspond also with the hypothetical 7-year marriage itch?

Can you elaborate on the kefir stuff you talk about? We are having these issues and I let my kefir culture a long time because I am afraid of the sugar, but it sounds like this is bad, it gets too yeasty?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Can you elaborate on the kefir stuff you talk about? We are having these issues and I let my kefir culture a long time because I am afraid of the sugar, but it sounds like this is bad, it gets too yeasty?

i think our kefir picked up a different strain of something while at the ILs -- their house has a distinct musty odor. i also think that the mixture of strains changed when i sent 2 jars into dormancy. i'm resurrecting some grains now (a freezer stash as opposed to a fridge stash) so we'll see ifthat helps. if it doesn't perk up soon i'll spike it with some PB8 (Nutrition Now brand) as that helped last time we were having issues.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

If DD reacts to something I eat, and I eat the same thing again the next day, should she have the same/similar reaction?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
If DD reacts to something I eat, and I eat the same thing again the next day, should she have the same/similar reaction?

Yes, that's been our experience, but not always in the same exact time frame.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok I think it is the megadopholis that is giving the funny smell to the yogurt.

I made some with just LGG (culturelle) and it smelled like yogurt and tasted kinda sour. I made some with LGG, Reuteri, and megadopholis and it has the bad smell the first batch had.

I think that it isn't necessarily bad, just funky smelling. We ate most of that first batch with no bad effects and it doesn't taste bad, just smells bad.

Anyhow, any way I can figure out how much bacteria I'm getting in that 10 hour coconut yogurt? Does it matter how much I start with?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
i think our kefir picked up a different strain of something while at the ILs -- their house has a distinct musty odor. i also think that the mixture of strains changed when i sent 2 jars into dormancy. i'm resurrecting some grains now (a freezer stash as opposed to a fridge stash) so we'll see ifthat helps. if it doesn't perk up soon i'll spike it with some PB8 (Nutrition Now brand) as that helped last time we were having issues.

I think I am having a problem with my strain of grains. If I add a probiotic to a jar will that do the trick? Or will I have to start out with completely new grains? Could I have done something bad to them by not feeding them enough sugar and letting them ferment a long time? Our troubles started when I started the kefir, I thought it was die off but now that you brought this up I think it was a bad reaction.

How do I spike kefir with a probiotic, just dump it in and mix?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
I think I am having a problem with my strain of grains. If I add a probiotic to a jar will that do the trick? Or will I have to start out with completely new grains? Could I have done something bad to them by not feeding them enough sugar and letting them ferment a long time? Our troubles started when I started the kefir, I thought it was die off but now that you brought this up I think it was a bad reaction.

How do I spike kefir with a probiotic, just dump it in and mix?

if you have enough grains, do both: (1) pull some grains from your reserve stash and start a new jar; and/or (2) use your existing grains and spike them with one capsule (or scoop) of your probiotic. (1) will take time to get really good kefir because you'll need to wake up those sleepy grains. right now, with these new (milk) grains, we're getting full culturing in 3-4 days per quart jar. before i dumped the old grains, we were straining grains every night. i'm actually glad i did dump them - we've returned to a nice creamy consistency instead of the grainy consistency we had reached.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
if you have enough grains, do both: (1) pull some grains from your reserve stash and start a new jar; and/or (2) use your existing grains and spike them with one capsule (or scoop) of your probiotic. (1) will take time to get really good kefir because you'll need to wake up those sleepy grains. right now, with these new (milk) grains, we're getting full culturing in 3-4 days per quart jar. before i dumped the old grains, we were straining grains every night. i'm actually glad i did dump them - we've returned to a nice creamy consistency instead of the grainy consistency we had reached.

I am working only with water kefir. I rinsed my grains in distilled water today and will add a capsule of reuteri. Will it take a few days for the new batch to culture, like with your milk kefir? My kefir has not been fizzy. Is that a sign of letting it go too long/eating up all the sugar?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

For those of you not doing dairy and not having your kids do dairy, how do you make sure they get enough calcium? I worry about cutting out dairy with ds, because he's already lost four teeth and has five other fillings. Of course, he probably wasn't absorbing any calcium from the dairy, nor was I. I want to continue with goat's milk for at least awhile, but it's so expensive there is no way I can provide enough to meet his calcium needs. Any suggestions for SCD legal calcium supplements?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

are you doing almonds at all? they are pretty high in absorbable calcium. (along with other nuts and seeds but almonds are SCD legal for sure right?)

bone broth? loaded with minerals, including calcium.

dark leafy greens (but if i recall these aren't all SCD legal, or at least are advanced SCD)

canned salmon with bones; canned sardines with bones. YUM. not sure if my ds would eat them though.

dried fruits apparently are also good.

chick peas are good but i can't remember if thy're SCD legal.

sea veggies are also supposed to be good (they make a really good broth) but again, not sure if they're ok for SCD.

nightshade family fruits (tomatoes, eggplant, peppers) contain solanine which inhibits calcium absorption.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
are you doing almonds at all? they are pretty high in absorbable calcium. (along with other nuts and seeds but almonds are SCD legal for sure right?)

bone broth? loaded with minerals, including calcium.

dark leafy greens (but if i recall these aren't all SCD legal, or at least are advanced SCD)

canned salmon with bones; canned sardines with bones. YUM. not sure if my ds would eat them though.

dried fruits apparently are also good.

chick peas are good but i can't remember if thy're SCD legal.

sea veggies are also supposed to be good (they make a really good broth) but again, not sure if they're ok for SCD.

nightshade family fruits (tomatoes, eggplant, peppers) contain solanine which inhibits calcium absorption.

All nuts are scd legal.
All greens are scd legal (I think).
Chick peas are not scd legal
sea veggies are not scd legal
Dried fruits are advanced scd legal


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## MeMommy (Aug 31, 2006)

What is SCD??????









If I make my own yogurt, do I still have to take a probiotic, or is the yogurt fine?

DD and I were on anbx's for the first few days after birth.







: We are both battling thrush. It's been tough.







:

What are the most important strains of bacteria for me to get?

DD is almost five months. What bacteria's should she be getting?

How do you make yogurt, kombucha, kefir, saurkraut, pickles, etc..... Links?

Thanks everone and again, please excuse my ignorance!


----------



## MeMommy (Aug 31, 2006)

K, just did a quick search on SCD, a little more informed now.... I don't really have bloating, diarrhea, etc. We DO have yeast problems - majot ones. Would it be better for me to follow the Candida Diet?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
For those of you not doing dairy and not having your kids do dairy, how do you make sure they get enough calcium? I worry about cutting out dairy with ds, because he's already lost four teeth and has five other fillings. Of course, he probably wasn't absorbing any calcium from the dairy, nor was I. I want to continue with goat's milk for at least awhile, but it's so expensive there is no way I can provide enough to meet his calcium needs. Any suggestions for SCD legal calcium supplements?

I do bone broth every day and I also drink a couple of cups a day of high-calcium herbal infusions (nettle, alfalfa, red raspberry, or red clover).


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Caedmyn-how do you make coconut milk kefir?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Caedmyn-how do you make coconut milk kefir?

I just use a can of coconut milk and add the grains...for me it gets really bubbly and strong fast so I only leave the grains in 12 hours and leave the kefir out for another 6-12 hours. It seems to brew a lot in the fridge, too, much more than the kefir sodas.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MeMommy* 
What is SCD??????









If I make my own yogurt, do I still have to take a probiotic, or is the yogurt fine?

DD and I were on anbx's for the first few days after birth.







: We are both battling thrush. It's been tough.







:

What are the most important strains of bacteria for me to get?

DD is almost five months. What bacteria's should she be getting?

How do you make yogurt, kombucha, kefir, saurkraut, pickles, etc..... Links?

Thanks everone and again, please excuse my ignorance!

IMO you should do a candida diet--it doesn't seem the SCD has worked very well for people whose primarily issue is yeast. If your DD is exclusively BF, she should have a probiotic containing bifidus infantis like Solaray BabyLife (dairy free) or Natren Life Start. If you are doing fermented foods I don't think you need to worry about strains for you. The books "Wild Fermentation" and "Nourishing Traditions" explain how to make different types of fermented foods, or if you post or search on the Traditional Foods forum there are directions there. I'm sorry, I don't have time right now to link anything for you.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

"Healing the gut" isn't working too well for DD--now she is reacting to tree nuts.







: Guess it's a good thing I'm not doing the SCD. Sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't have left well enough alone and just eliminated dairy--really she had fewer issues before I started trying to heal both of us.


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
"Healing the gut" isn't working too well for DD--now she is reacting to tree nuts.







: Guess it's a good thing I'm not doing the SCD. Sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't have left well enough alone and just eliminated dairy--really she had fewer issues before I started trying to heal both of us.

i'm confused (and forgetful) - did you start out trying to heal just her? or you? and now you're trying to heal both of you simultaneously?

in our case, i'm focusing on me first - it's the easiest place to control. and, in fact, the most likely source of our issues. if ds were still EBF (i.e., no solids), i don't think i would even bother worrying about what to get in him (beyond probiotics); i would only worry about how my problems manifest themselves in him.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
"Healing the gut" isn't working too well for DD--now she is reacting to tree nuts.







: Guess it's a good thing I'm not doing the SCD. Sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't have left well enough alone and just eliminated dairy--really she had fewer issues before I started trying to heal both of us.

That was one of the things I didn't like about SCD. All that nut consumption bothered me, given that I was ebf. They say you shouldn't introduce nuts to infants under 1, 2, or 3 years (depending on who you read). Personally, with our food allergy/leaky gut issues, I'm keeping all the big allergens out of our diet for now, even the ones that we haven't tested positive for. I'm just too scared that we'll develop new sensitivities. I haven't given up eggs and wheat or oats yet, but I will in a couple of weeks (we're going out of town, and I won't be able to do it until we get back).


----------



## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MeMommy* 
K, just did a quick search on SCD, a little more informed now.... I don't really have bloating, diarrhea, etc. We DO have yeast problems - majot ones. Would it be better for me to follow the Candida Diet?

We have big yeast problems, too, and SCD did not work well for us. The fruit seemed to exacerbate the yeast. Also, I don't like eating all of those nuts when I'm ebf and my dd already has some allergies. I'm trying to keep her clear of the big allergens for as long as possible.

We're switching to a more anti-candida diet in a couple weeks (after our trip). Also, dh got me a yogurt maker for Christmas, so we'll be making coconut milk yogurt with LOTS of good probiotics (the capsules you buy don't have nearly as many good bacteria as you can culture in your own yogurt).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
i'm confused (and forgetful) - did you start out trying to heal just her? or you? and now you're trying to heal both of you simultaneously?

in our case, i'm focusing on me first - it's the easiest place to control. and, in fact, the most likely source of our issues. if ds were still EBF (i.e., no solids), i don't think i would even bother worrying about what to get in him (beyond probiotics); i would only worry about how my problems manifest themselves in him.

I started mostly trying to heal her, but as I got into it I realized I had some issues, too. I am healing (obviously not enough, though, or she wouldn't react to stuff I eat). Now I am trying to heal both of us simultaneously, but focusing more on her. For me I'm just doing the stuff I've been doing since it seems to be working.

It became apparent to me a couple of months ago that just focusing on me wasn't going to help DD. I think that since she has yeast issues, even if I were completely healed she would still have to do her own separate healing plan to get rid of her yeast overgrowth. I'm trying to do a candida plan for her right now, with some extra things thrown in for gut healing, but she pretty much refuses to eat or drink anything consistently except probiotics, CLO (and she spit that out today), water, and nettle infusions.


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 








Here's a thought: if your DS did well when you restarted the SCD, maybe you should consider doing an actual candida diet. Maybe he's having difficulty with something in the SCD. When I switched from the SCD to the candida diet, it was a bit hard at first while I figured out what to eat, but in some ways it was easier--I started eating salads right away, and I'd never worked up to uncooked veggies on the SCD. I also started eating other veggies that I hadn't worked up to on the SCD.

Also, if you feel overwhelmed there is nothing wrong with taking a break for a bit. You could stop the supplements for a week or two, or eat any SCD legal foods, or eat non SCD foods that you know he can tolerate...that sort of thing. Sometimes we really need a bit of a mental break to get the energy to keep working on all this.

















Totally agree.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my3peanuts* 
Thanks Chinese pistache,

I think my biggest problem is needing to cut sugar out of my diet.

Yes, you should definitly cut sugar out!

I admitingly do not have healthy eating habits and sugar is a big part of my diet. I'm finding it hard to cut dairy/eggs out as well because cheese & dairy have been large parts of my diet. I feel like I'm making my way to eating nothing!!









Ok here is my story in short (I hope). I use to smoke, quit over a year ago. Before that I started getting ezcema and 1 big toe nail fungal and I also am hypothyroid. I drank coffee ALOT!! and sugar FORGET-ABOUT-IT, my sugar addition got worse after I stopped smoking (no suprise). Then I broke a tooth with an amalgam filling, and had 2 tooth abcesses on 2 other teeth (had root canal on them). I was on antibiotic's on and off 4 times within a year and 2x prior to that. I also had a tetenus shot (new I shouldn't do it but scared of lockjaw, next time I am going to take my chances I had way more symptoms than they said I would get from the shot, I thought I was going to die, really) and more antibiotic. Oh yea, totally bad eating habits (I mean JUNK) along with stress. Well, all said, I had itchy rash, skin flaking /dry tight, hot feeling,and swelling around my eyes, some fingers, mouth, and down south, you know. I also had stomach pains whenever I ate most foods. Muscle/joint aches and pain. If it wasn't for the maker's diet and research I would probably be worse and I wouldn't have found Sally Fallon's cookbook (excellent book). Well I am 70% better and I don't follow the candida diet very strickly, but will start this week because I want to make more progress and I haven't been using my oil of oregano like I should, but I have upped my probiotics (lots of die-off







: )and waiting on my kefir grains







:









In the meantime I'm afraid if our problem is a leaky gut he will continue to lose weight until this problem is resolved. Being so young I worry about him losing weight.










Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
I have been leaning this way myself. From what Ive read, lgs causes candida overgrowth, but/and vice versa. If you have yeast, you have leaky gut, but you had it before the yeast too, just not as bad. You have to address both (as you are all doing). Its the terrain vs. microbe debate, and the answer is, it's both. Yeast makes the terrain worse (alkalinizes the bowel, due to not enough good bugs making lactic acid ... but good bugs cannot do their job in an alkaline environment, so *just* adding these wil not restore balance in and of itself, because it doesnt address the terrain), but it was not healthy to begin with, to open the door to yeast overgrowth. And when you are doing everything *right* (diet, antifungals, enzymes, probiotics, direct intestinal healing - l-glutamine, aloe, zinc, vit. A, whatever - stress relief, detox) it still takes at least 9 mos, but I think more, to get balanced. I have been fighting the yeast without thinking about the whole picture. One source Ive read attributes a lot to stress, and not just the obvious kind. Dealing with what we all are causes a lot of obvious stress. There have been many studies showing how detrimental stress is to the intestines. It occurs to me that healing the gut could eliminate yeast, although thats not looking at the whole picture either







: Hope Im not being redundant here









What is your regimen, from when you wake to when you sleep, and what foods and supplements. I would like to compare some things. I was thinking of buying olive leaf, do you take this one, I hear alot good things. Please share.









At the end of these quote's I will post some info I found from one of the sites that helped me understand leaky gut. I used some of what she suggest for foods and some from others like the maker's diet. Here is her website if iterested in more: http://www.askshelley.com/faq.php?p=default&cat=38#a25

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
I am having the worst face rash explosion ever. It kind of errupted yesterday. This is now the 3rd time in like 6 weeks that this has happened, the first and 3rd times being the worst. My one eye is so swollen that it is only half open. I don't know if it started then, but I first felt my skin getting red, bumpy and itchy while eating breakfast and got too much cinnamen. I often eat cinnamen, but I dumped too much and actually choked/coughed from it.

I have never had any skin problems and certainly not exema, but I am starting to wonder. Could it just start like that? Although this time it is not flakey, but red, itchy, swollen and on my eyelids, rather sore.

I do not know how it ties into my GI issues, but of course, I know that it does. I still have fairly severe bloating, not so much constipation, occassional gas and the latest is gastritis. I started taking prilosec and am now trying nexium to stop the horrible pain that I was having, which is helping that.

My doctor really is useless with this stuff, so I need to find a new one. I am also not working much due to all this stuff going on, so money is not plentiful to go to alternative practicioners. I am now strongly considering allergy testing.

Does anyone have any insight into any of this for me? I just really don't quite know what to do. I am using vit E, which helps alittle, but only for a very short while.

Well I know that cinnamon is an antifungal and I also read somewhere the eggs are too, I did not know this about the eggs until about 1 or 2 months ago(It may have to do with the sulfur) as for the cinn. I found that out about 6 months ago. Still learning.

Ok here is the info on the leaky gut. I use some of her info but you should read a little more on her site, some useful info:

Leaky Gut

This protocol is for anyone experiencing Stage 2 Candida; Celiac Disease; IBS; Crohn's; Acne; fatigue after meals not explained by hypoglycemia; food sensitivities; alternating bouts of diarrhea/constipation; dark circles under the eyes; fatigue; fibromyalgia.

The cycle that needs to be interrupted is a cycle of a too-porous intestine allowing large molecules into the bloodstream. The immune system then has to go into overdrive, attacking these large molecules, which causes inflammation of the intestines, which increases gut permeability.

This wreaks havoc on the liver, which must take these inappropriate molecules out of the bloodstream. Bile can be compromised, causing a highly acidic bile that burns the small intestine. So liver management is required. Flushing helps, but mostly the liver needs things that cleanse it and bile.

The intestinal lining can heal itself in as fast as 24 hours, but nutrient deficiencies and inflammation will slow down the process to as long as 3 days, and subsequent allergic reactions will create new pores.

If Candida caused the pores to begin with, it should be brought under control before beginning this protocol.

Your first line of defense is diet. You should follow an anti-candida, anti-celiac disease diet for at least 3 months. That means only vegetables (except for nightshade), alternative, non-gluten grains; protein shakes.

Avoid wheat, oats, corn, white potatoes, tomatoes, even garlic, as it may be an allergen if you ate a lot of it in the past, or used it to kill candida.

You can have legumes, nuts if raw and soaked, you should get plenty of EFAs as they help repair tissues, you can only eat non-hormonal, organic beef, chicken and turkey; and fish.

You should get most of your nutrients from freshly squeezed veggie juice. If you don't have a juicer yet, get one! Until then, visit the local juice bar or buy Naked Juice.

Your second line of defense is keeping the intestines clean. You should clean the colon as often as possible. Clean tissues heal faster. That means enemas almost daily; a diet of mostly juices; and a combination of insoluble fiber (veggies, whole flax seeds) and only a small bit of soluble fiber (psyllium, guar gum, apple pectin) as it may irritate.

After a flushing enema, do a retention enema of liquid chlorophyll or aloe vera juice to aid healing, or simply add some to your flushing enemas and retain them a bit longer before voiding. The basic enema is just salted water; neither baking soda or coffee are recommended for leaky gut treatments.

Your third line of defense is taking the amino acid, L-Glutamine. It is a major component of the connective tissue of the intestinal tract. You should buy the powder so that it is absorbed easily and gets into the bloodstream right away. For best results, take at least 1/2 teaspoon 2x day on an empty stomach.

There are supplements designed for leaky gut, a list of common components follows so you'll be able to recognize a good one or so you can create your own with a combo of supplements, juices and teas.

Take in Lecithin to help cleanse the bile and liver.

Carrot juice cleanses bile and liver, beets detox liver. This is important as harsh bile will create more permeability.

Cabbage is a good source of organic sulphur, which aids the action of the glutamine. Some supplements have MSM for this reason.

Digestive Enzymes - leaky gut exhausts the pancreas, help it out, and help foods get fully digested so only smaller particles end up in the bloodstream.

EFA's - gamma linolenic acid, linoleic acid, only from animal sources of fruit oils or fish oils, not nut oil.

B vitamins - they are so essential for good fat absorption and repairing of tissues, and tough to Over Dose on, so do take these regularly.

Zinc - zinc absorption gets interrupted by leaky gut and you need it. You may need magnesium too - especially if experiencing brain fog and twitching.

N-Acetyl D-Glucosamine is an amino-sugar (amino acid joined to a sugar) that aids in the formation of connective tissue of the intestinal tract. Glucosamine is an integral component of the mucous membranes lining the digestive, respiratory and urinary tracts.

Marshmallow has been shown to have soothing and healing properties upon the epithelial tissue lining the gastrointestinal tract. It also soothes the kidneys/bladder. Slippery elm is a soothing nutritive demulcent. It helps to buffer the membranes of the intestinal lining from irritation from foods and assists the passage of foods through the intestines. It may also help to support the healing process of the gastrointestinal tract and urinary tract.

Acidophilus and other probiotics - these should be taken after the permeability issue has been addressed. If you take microbes while the gut is leaking, they will end up in the bloodstream and cause rashes and other issues. If you're not sure where you are in the cycle, take it every 3 days or so after every 2 enemas.

Since the immune system is exhausted by leaky gut syndrome, avoid taking Echinacea to ramp it up - it needs a break. Kombucha tea and all the guidelines in Lymph Notes are highly beneficial.

They main thing is change the diet







If you don't change it you will get worse. And listen to your body. When I changed my diet I saw improvement right away. When taking the probiotics and antifungals you will get die off. It takes awhile to get better, but the happier you are the less stress over the condition the quicker you get better. I really think making my homemade kefir is going to make a world of a difference. I want to try to get most of my stuff from foods if that is possible. I know I forgot some things but I will get it the next time around.


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## chainedangel (Oct 29, 2005)

Ok, Gotta ask those in the know. DD (16months) has had near constant thrush, a few yeast diaper rashes, way too frequent (although not too painful) ear infections, is an absolute pig and is really tiny (the size of a 7 or 8mo). Any chance this is all related? Could it *all* be gut problems? How do I help her?

WARNING- THIS IS A BIT GROSS
Also I've been dealing w/ varying degrees of constipation for years. Lately it seems as though I have a large mass of stool that will not move. Any thoughts on helping that out?

And is there any place online where I can get gut healing basics?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chainedangel* 
And is there any place online where I can get gut healing basics?

Look at the sticky at the top of the health and healing forum.


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chainedangel* 
Ok, Gotta ask those in the know. DD (16months) has had near constant thrush, a few yeast diaper rashes, way too frequent (although not too painful) ear infections, is an absolute pig and is really tiny (the size of a 7 or 8mo). Any chance this is all related? Could it *all* be gut problems? How do I help her?

WARNING- THIS IS A BIT GROSS
Also I've been dealing w/ varying degrees of constipation for years. Lately it seems as though I have a large mass of stool that will not move. Any thoughts on helping that out?

And is there any place online where I can get gut healing basics?


This may help:

http://www.askshelley.com/faq.php?p=default&cat=36


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beachbuminthecity* 

This wreaks havoc on the liver, which must take these inappropriate molecules out of the bloodstream. Bile can be compromised, causing a highly acidic bile that burns the small intestine. So liver management is required. Flushing helps, but mostly the liver needs things that cleanse it and bile.


Quote:

Your second line of defense is keeping the intestines clean. You should clean the colon as often as possible. Clean tissues heal faster. That means enemas almost daily; a diet of mostly juices; and a combination of insoluble fiber (veggies, whole flax seeds) and only a small bit of soluble fiber (psyllium, guar gum, apple pectin) as it may irritate.
A LOT of us here are breastfeeding. It is pretty well known that one needs to be quite careful in healing the gut activities. If a regimen does too much cleansing, the released toxins can go straight into the breastmilk. Instead of mom having a herxheimer reaction, babe can end up having it instead.

Which reminds me... someone here wasn't having any sorts of die-off (aka herxheimer reaction). in that situation, how was the babe doing? better or worse? (or maybe there wasn't a babe and i'm just remembering wrongly).


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

They don't have to do everything she suggests, I just posted that to give them some idea of what maybe going on and what they can do naturally. Hopefully people who read suggestions do research and using common sense, before trying anyones advise. Just like your doctor, he told you to do something would you jump right in a do it without researching it and thinking about it.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 

Which reminds me... someone here wasn't having any sorts of die-off (aka herxheimer reaction). in that situation, how was the babe doing? better or worse? (or maybe there wasn't a babe and i'm just remembering wrongly).

I think it was saskiasmom who wasn't having any die-off, but as far as I know she isn't nursing.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beachbuminthecity* 
They don't have to do everything she suggests, I just posted that to give them some idea of what maybe going on and what they can do naturally. Hopefully people who read suggestions do research and using common sense, before trying anyones advise. Just like your doctor, he told you to do something would you jump right in a do it without researching it and thinking about it.

You're right, people should do some research, but if you disagree with information in a link you post or know of something that contradicts some of the advice given, it's probably a good idea to post that information (or someone else probably will)--when someone is just starting out and learning about healing the gut everything is very overwhelming and it's easy to just trust what someone you think is more knowledgeable (ie those of us already on this thread) tells you.


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MeMommy* 
What is SCD??????









If I make my own yogurt, do I still have to take a probiotic, or is the yogurt fine?

DD and I were on anbx's for the first few days after birth.







: We are both battling thrush. It's been tough.







:

What are the most important strains of bacteria for me to get?

DD is almost five months. What bacteria's should she be getting?

How do you make yogurt, kombucha, kefir, saurkraut, pickles, etc..... Links?

Thanks everone and again, please excuse my ignorance!

I think SCD means Specific Carbohyrdate Diet. Here is more info that may answer your other questions:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=434071


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
You're right, people should do some research, but if you disagree with information in a link you post or know of something that contradicts some of the advice given, it's probably a good idea to post that information (or someone else probably will)--when someone is just starting out and learning about healing the gut everything is very overwhelming and it's easy to just trust what someone you think is more knowledgeable (ie those of us already on this thread) tells you.

I didn't say I disagree with what she says, I said I use some of her ideas. Some people can't do everything that one person recommends. There is so many different veiws on (lets say this topic) that not all of one persons advice will help and all or at that time. I don't totally agree with everything I read, but I do research what I read and if there is contradicting veiws I may try it or may not, depends. Lets take the Maker's diet. His book was very helpful, but I took some of his advise and others to see what worked for me. I don't totally agree with him either. As for her advise and other people on cleansing the liver I am to chicken to try at this time cause I know I will get tons of die off and whatever else. As for the colon cleanse I believe is extremely important, but having other problems that I know will interfer with the cleanse like having hypothyroidism we tend to me constipated so I experiment with different options. Also I posted her site and said to read more of her site that will help. She goes into more detail and people who are confused post questions to make sure they understand. I am sorry if I didn't explain more before I posted I guess I just assumed people did research before trying anything.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I'm curious beachbum, what are you currently doing for gut healing? Are you trying to heal yourself or your dc?


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

I just tried to introduce cow yogurt (24 hour) after 8 months on SCD. I was hoping to move away from goat yogurt because it's. so. expensive. Reacted mildly to the cow yogurt (breakouts, but no pain, no gas - better than last time I tried.), so I'm going back on goat yogurt and hoping to try the cow yogurt again in a few months (and hopefully to give the homeopathy some time to work its magic).

My question: Has anyone been able to switch to cow from goat when they didn't previously tolerate it? I'm wondering if this is more of a true allergy than a digestive issue. Seems like more of a protein issue, when I can clearly tolerate goat.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000* 
My question: Has anyone been able to switch to cow from goat when they didn't previously tolerate it? I'm wondering if this is more of a true allergy than a digestive issue. Seems like more of a protein issue, when I can clearly tolerate goat.

heh - i'm too chicken to try. i have tried feta cheese (it snuck into those yummy spinach-feta applegate farms sausages!) and, when cooked, it doesn't bother me. i can't stand goat's milk or goat's milk yogurt. those are just way too goaty for my taste buds.

though maybe i should try it again - i just recently tried commercial kefir and found it way too sweet and lacking in the nice zing that my homegrown kefir has. 6 months ago, i couldn't stand the commerical stuff. maybe my taste buds have evolved since then as well.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Well I just spent $75 on custom probiotics for DD...I sure hope they work.


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
I'm curious beachbum, what are you currently doing for gut healing? Are you trying to heal yourself or your dc?

Hi Annikate, I definitly changed diet, but do cheat and plan on going very strict. I am waiting on my kefir grains (should come today), and want to start fermenting veggies. IMO, I believe these 2 add foods and going to make a big differenc. As for your answer I didn't take it slow with doing all the suggestions and was feeling worse. So first take it slow and listen to your body. I took some suggestions from this website www.askshelley.com go to the fequently asked question at the top of the site and just do alot of reading. Don't take anyone'e word for anything until you looked at different veiws. I also read alot on this site too http://www.mercola.com/index.htm and from the Maker's diet and Sally Fallon's cookbook. I think key is fermenting, soaking , and slow cooking with rich nutrient foods for starters. Sorry I got sidetracked---I also use L-Glutamine caps and aloe vera juice, both are suppose to help heal the gut and of course I haven't been too faithful with it but I have been inproving. I don't have stomach pain, bloating, and gas anymore. I will try and keep you posted on my regimen. I do take alot of probiotic until I get the kefir and fermenting veggies going. In this thread the page before this I posted info on leaky gut you may want to check, post #132 it is long.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000* 
I just tried to introduce cow yogurt (24 hour) after 8 months on SCD. I was hoping to move away from goat yogurt because it's. so. expensive. Reacted mildly to the cow yogurt (breakouts, but no pain, no gas - better than last time I tried.), so I'm going back on goat yogurt and hoping to try the cow yogurt again in a few months (and hopefully to give the homeopathy some time to work its magic).

My question: Has anyone been able to switch to cow from goat when they didn't previously tolerate it? I'm wondering if this is more of a true allergy than a digestive issue. Seems like more of a protein issue, when I can clearly tolerate goat.

They do say goat's milk is better for people to digest and it is very close to breast milk. Maybe you should try it as kefir instead and see how that works. I don't know if I answered your question


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Well I just spent $75 on custom probiotics for DD...I sure hope they work.

What strains of bacteria are in it? Did you get one for yourself too or just for your DD?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
What strains of bacteria are in it? Did you get one for yourself too or just for your DD?

I just got it for DD. The stuff I'm doing seems to be helping me and those are way too expensive for me to take if I don't need to. I got: L. acidophilus, salivarius, planatarum (sp?), reuteri, and rhamnosus, B. bifidum, lactis, and infantis (50-50 split between lactobaccilli and bifidobacteria). I chose the strains based on what I've read about probiotics, choosing strains that either showed benefits for eczema and allergies in studies or had actions that I felt would be beneficial to DD. It's supposed to get here on Thursday so I will keep you posted on any results.

Oh, and whoever was looking for dairy free reuteri--customprobiotics says their's is dairy free.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I need opinions: now that DD appears to be reacting to tree nuts, is it a bad idea to take her to a place like Texas Roadhouse where they thow peanut shells on the floor? She's been there before and I do of course keep her away from the peanuts and shells.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I need opinions: now that DD appears to be reacting to tree nuts, is it a bad idea to take her to a place like Texas Roadhouse where they thow peanut shells on the floor? She's been there before and I do of course keep her away from the peanuts and shells.


I'd probably avoid it just to be safe, at least for 6 mths to a year, when you can figure out and isolate her reactions better (after elimination).


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000* 
I just tried to introduce cow yogurt (24 hour) after 8 months on SCD. I was hoping to move away from goat yogurt because it's. so. expensive. Reacted mildly to the cow yogurt (breakouts, but no pain, no gas - better than last time I tried.), so I'm going back on goat yogurt and hoping to try the cow yogurt again in a few months (and hopefully to give the homeopathy some time to work its magic).

My question: Has anyone been able to switch to cow from goat when they didn't previously tolerate it? I'm wondering if this is more of a true allergy than a digestive issue. Seems like more of a protein issue, when I can clearly tolerate goat.

What about coconut milk yogurt?


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

*anybody use Primal Defense ?* i used it during our (dd1 and i, in 2003) candida cleanse and i tested clear of candida (kinesiological testing) after 5 weeks diet/enzymes/probiotics (no herbs since bfing and herbs make for nasty tasting mama milk per the acupuncturist who was doing our NAET and guiding us in the cleanse). i got up to 8 caplets/day. now i maintain on 1-2, day, but of course i slack off at times. got to stay hydrated or risk contipation, too.

reading the kefir info, considering culturing, but at best i'm a reluctant cook; not sure i'm up to the trial and error aspect. i can burn water...

*anybody know about pumpkin seeds ?* before we went to india i heard (?where) that they help prevent intestinal infection. i can't recall whether it was virus/bacteria or other pathogens like amoebas/parasites that they prevented. we ate a small handful 1-3x/day, got no intestinal upsets. (avoided raw stuff, filtered water and mostly ate at home cooking at my IL's). wondering if anyone else has info, uses them on a regular basis.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Well I just spent $75 on custom probiotics for DD...I sure hope they work.

I have an ongoing fantasy; do you all remember Twighlight Zone, the show? There was one where a man found a stopwatch that literally stopped time; everyone and everything stopped except him. At the end of the show he tried to rob a bamk but as he was wheeling the cart full of money out the door he dropped the watch and it broke. Anyway, my fantasy is that I have that watch and go to Whole Foods to get supplements!!!!







How fun would that be! I would get some for all of you too!!









Does anyone have any kefir grains? I dont think I care which kind - I dont think I have a problem with dairy, although havent had any but a bite or two of 30hr yogurt in 5 mos.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
I have an ongoing fantasy; do you all remember Twighlight Zone, the show? There was one where a man found a stopwatch that literally stopped time; everyone and everything stopped except him. At the end of the show he tried to rob a bamk but as he was wheeling the cart full of money out the door he dropped the watch and it broke. Anyway, my fantasy is that I have that watch and go to Whole Foods to get supplements!!!!







How fun would that be! I would get some for all of you too!!


















That's a great visual! I'm coming too!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I just got it for DD. The stuff I'm doing seems to be helping me and those are way too expensive for me to take if I don't need to. I got: L. acidophilus, salivarius, planatarum (sp?), reuteri, and rhamnosus, B. bifidum, lactis, and infantis (50-50 split between lactobaccilli and bifidobacteria). I chose the strains based on what I've read about probiotics, choosing strains that either showed benefits for eczema and allergies in studies or had actions that I felt would be beneficial to DD. It's supposed to get here on Thursday so I will keep you posted on any results.

Oh, and whoever was looking for dairy free reuteri--customprobiotics says their's is dairy free.

Did Harry help you decide what to get?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beachbuminthecity* 

They do say goat's milk is better for people to digest and it is very close to breast milk. Maybe you should try it as kefir instead and see how that works. I don't know if I answered your question












It is actually no closer to breastmilk, but the proteins are smaller than cow's. IT is thought to be easier to digest. This may be true for many reasons, but I will go on record as saying the main reason IMO is that it isn't used generally in prepared foods so there's far less chance of overexposure.

We can't do any animal milks.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Did Harry help you decide what to get?

I'm pretty sure Caedmyn did that all by herself! IIRC Harry wanted to give her just bifidus and acidophilus. Check her out customizing her own! Way to go, lady. Did it feel good to take control? I can't wait to hear your results!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

For all you ladies struggling with cost...here's a thought. My dh and I own a business, and I am a partner in another. One of the ways I have ben able to support my gut healing habit is to get accounts with my biggest vendors...many of which I never used before embarking on this journey a year and a half ago. IT is very simple to set up a company (like a WAHM deal) and get your own accounts. Alot of places either don't have a minimum, or the min. is easily reachable. It's just another way to spin it to save some $. If I didn't already have the resale certs. and a license I absolutely would have gotten one for this purpose.

One of hte best is a place like emerson (www.emersonecologics.com) they have pharm. grade supplements-really high quality stuff. Some you need a doc's license number for, but most you can get with no hassle.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
For all you ladies struggling with cost...here's a thought. My dh and I own a business, and I am a partner in another. One of the ways I have ben able to support my gut healing habit is to get accounts with my biggest vendors...many of which I never used before embarking on this journey a year and a half ago. IT is very simple to set up a company (like a WAHM deal) and get your own accounts. Alot of places either don't have a minimum, or the min. is easily reachable. It's just another way to spin it to save some $. If I didn't already have the resale certs. and a license I absolutely would have gotten one for this purpose.


That is an awesome tip. Thanks!







:


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## mamajaillet (Jul 24, 2006)

Ladies, I feel like a bum asking this question, but I feel like I am spending all my spare time on the computer, and still have not come to a decision about what probiotics to take, or actually to make coconut milk yogurt out of. I had been taking New Chapters All Flora, but can't tolerate the soy, and the fermented mushroom would taste awful in yogurt









It had eight strains, and I have this feeling like a number of strains would be most beneficial, but for now, would like to buy just one powder dairy/soy/chickpea free formula that would culture yogurt. Any suggestions, I am completely overwhelmed, but need to get some probiotics into my body!!!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I just got it for DD. The stuff I'm doing seems to be helping me and those are way too expensive for me to take if I don't need to. I got: L. acidophilus, salivarius, planatarum (sp?), reuteri, and rhamnosus, B. bifidum, lactis, and infantis (50-50 split between lactobaccilli and bifidobacteria). I chose the strains based on what I've read about probiotics, choosing strains that either showed benefits for eczema and allergies in studies or had actions that I felt would be beneficial to DD. It's supposed to get here on Thursday so I will keep you posted on any results.

Oh, and whoever was looking for dairy free reuteri--customprobiotics says their's is dairy free.

Looks great! No Lactobacillus GG though? I just got done reading the chapter in Bacteria for Breakfeast about allergies and eczema and these look like everything I would want too. Can I be a copycat?









Still getting through the chapter of vaginosis (in Bacteria for Breakfeast), but read that IUD's (which I have) can cause bacterial imbalance, which may be the problems I have been having lately that I thought was die off or a bad reaction to the kefir. Here I go trying to diagnose again...


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

How bad is the flu shot?

I ask because I am required to get one by the military and I am trying to get out of it but don't know that I can. I tried the 'my son is allergic to eggs' and I am still breastfeeding route today and it got me no where. I put in a call to my OB who has always been very nice and better than most of the military doc's, but I don't know that she will write me a note to get out of it.

I am SO against any vax's but I don't have much of a choice here







:


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
How bad is the flu shot?

I ask because I am required to get one by the military and I am trying to get out of it but don't know that I can. I tried the 'my son is allergic to eggs' and I am still breastfeeding route today and it got me no where. I put in a call to my OB who has always been very nice and better than most of the military doc's, but I don't know that she will write me a note to get out of it.

I am SO against any vax's but I don't have much of a choice here







:

Can you get the FluMist? It does shed so you'll have to decide if you want to expose your DS to it, but you can "miss" with it as you give it to yourself. DH said he "accidentally missed his nose" with most of his...but of course I still got the flu a week later









Otherwise, maybe see if you can get a thimerosol free one--often HFS have preservative free flu shot clinics, and maybe if you can get one there the military won't force you to get another if you provide documentation. I'm sorry


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Looks great! No Lactobacillus GG though? I just got done reading the chapter in Bacteria for Breakfeast about allergies and eczema and these look like everything I would want too. Can I be a copycat?









Still getting through the chapter of vaginosis (in Bacteria for Breakfeast), but read that IUD's (which I have) can cause bacterial imbalance, which may be the problems I have been having lately that I thought was die off or a bad reaction to the kefir. Here I go trying to diagnose again...

Sure, be a copycat







I don't think they have L. GG...they did have L. casei (which L. GG is as far as I can tell) but I don't believe it's the same strain and I figured I had enough strains already.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajaillet* 
Ladies, I feel like a bum asking this question, but I feel like I am spending all my spare time on the computer, and still have not come to a decision about what probiotics to take, or actually to make coconut milk yogurt out of. I had been taking New Chapters All Flora, but can't tolerate the soy, and the fermented mushroom would taste awful in yogurt









It had eight strains, and I have this feeling like a number of strains would be most beneficial, but for now, would like to buy just one powder dairy/soy/chickpea free formula that would culture yogurt. Any suggestions, I am completely overwhelmed, but need to get some probiotics into my body!!!

I have used Progurt by GI Health. It is supposedly allergen free.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Nolansmum/anyone with kids with eczema--how quickly does eczema appear/worsen after you or your DC ingest an allergen? DD's arms are COVERED with eczema tonight, and she has never had visible eczema on her arms before--little patches I could feel yes, but nothing visible. And these patches weren't there this morning!

Could it be the almond butter she reacted to 3 days ago? Or I made some homemade coconut milk chocolate pudding this morning--could she have reacted with eczema that quickly? Also, my mom came to visit from out of state this afternoon--is it possible that DD reacted to the detergent on my mom's clothes? My mom doesn't wear any perfumes or use fabric softeners on her clothes.

I feel like DD is turning into one of those kids who is allergic to absolutely everything. I feel like she needs to be kept in a bubble right now or something--I mean, she was chewing on the shopping cart today at the store, who knows what food residues could have been on that. She's not even a year old--I can't keep her from touching/chewing on things!


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

Maybe the coconut milk gave her a die off reaction.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beachbuminthecity* 
Maybe the coconut milk gave her a die off reaction.

I doubt it--she's been eating coconut oil for a couple of months and I've been eating 1/2 a cup of coconut oil a day for months, so I don't think a few tablespoons of CO in coconut milk would suddenly cause die-off.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Sorry if this was mentioned before, but to make coconut milk kefir -- you can use water grains, right? Do you add any sweetner? And do you mix in any water, or just straight coconut milk?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Nolansmum/anyone with kids with eczema--how quickly does eczema appear/worsen after you or your DC ingest an allergen? DD's arms are COVERED with eczema tonight, and she has never had visible eczema on her arms before--little patches I could feel yes, but nothing visible. And these patches weren't there this morning!

Could it be the almond butter she reacted to 3 days ago? Or I made some homemade coconut milk chocolate pudding this morning--could she have reacted with eczema that quickly? Also, my mom came to visit from out of state this afternoon--is it possible that DD reacted to the detergent on my mom's clothes? My mom doesn't wear any perfumes or use fabric softeners on her clothes.

I feel like DD is turning into one of those kids who is allergic to absolutely everything. I feel like she needs to be kept in a bubble right now or something--I mean, she was chewing on the shopping cart today at the store, who knows what food residues could have been on that. She's not even a year old--I can't keep her from touching/chewing on things!

I am so sorry your DD is having allergic reactions







. Yes DS does get reactions fast. DS was almost rash free when I had a sausage (SCD legal) at dinner, I nursed him before bed and then he woke in the morning with a rash. Has your DD had chocolate before? I would guess that before your mom's clothes. Does your mom have pets?

I also feel like I am trying to keep DS in a bubble. My DH thinks I am crazy for trying to control everything in DS's environment. We had a big argument over the weekend about the Eucerin DH insists putting on DS's cheeks, it has wheat!!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Can you get the FluMist? It does shed so you'll have to decide if you want to expose your DS to it, but you can "miss" with it as you give it to yourself. DH said he "accidentally missed his nose" with most of his...but of course I still got the flu a week later









Otherwise, maybe see if you can get a thimerosol free one--often HFS have preservative free flu shot clinics, and maybe if you can get one there the military won't force you to get another if you provide documentation. I'm sorry









I never thought about faking it. Hmm. I am going to post a question about this over on the vax board.


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## vxclayborn (Nov 13, 2006)

Hi Everyone,

I hope I am on the right board. I have a question... I'm new to all this. This is long and I apologize in advance.

My DD is currently 13 months and has been through the ringer:

Before she was born I suspected she had intestinal issues. She had hiccups (seems benign right?) 5-6 times a day during my pregnancy and it runs in my family (both grandfathers, g-ma, dad and bro all have severe esophogeal problems) After she was born she was doing some gurggling, tried to ignore it thinking I was being overprotective. At exactly 2 weeks old she through up her entire meal for the first time and was awake and fussing for 13 hours straight, couldn't keep anything down so took her to Emergenc room. They told me it was "Colic" and it was normal, it's just hard adjusting to being a first time mom. I saw her pediatrician and she immediately put her on Zantac and Reglan (my mom really protested reglan b/c its actually a drug for nuero probs). Stayed on a heavy dose of both for the next 4 months with continued pain, and vomiting of every meal. (We ended up nursing every hour on the hour to get some sort of food in her system) At around 5 months she looked terrible... dehydrated, rashy, and just plain irritable. Finally got an appt with a Pediatric GI specialist (2 month wait) she also kinda pooh-poohed me and said I was "breastfeeding incorrectly" but orderd an upper GI to appease me. UGI revealed that her stomach is incredibly large, and was detached on one side and she had an intestinal malrotation. So everytime she would eat her stomach would flip up and what she did get down got stuck! They booked her for immediate surgery and sent us home a week later. That night she began vomiting bile and we headed back to the hospital. We stayed for an additional 2 weeks before they realized she had another inermittent malrotation. She had nothing by mouth for 21 day and was on nutrition via a central line. Since the surgery the vomiting is much better.

However, we battle consipation and reflux issues daily. If we give her milk of magnesia she poops almost straight water (even the smallest dose) but if we don't use it she gets backed up to her armpits and can't eat, sleep, or be happy. In addition, we have realized she is allergic to red dye, Reglan and Penicillian.
I suspected a milk allergy, and her doc did a RAST test came back negative. However, I heard that they aren't very consistent.

Today we discovered she is aspirating liquids and we have to thicken everything to at least nectar consistency. (I suspected but had to wait 6 weeks for an appt.) Docs are concerned about aspiration, but gave me the go ahead to continue BF, she doesn't struggle with that. They say the swallowing problem is most likely reflux related. (She has continual stridor and reccurrent esophagitis)

Most medical professionals I speak with treat this like something I just have to deal with, and medicate. I'm so frustrated. Eating should be enjoyable and she is flat out miserable.

Sorry this was so long, I just wanted to give the big picture. Hope there is someone who could pass on some good advice.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

vxclayborn,

I' soooo sorry you and your little one has to go through this and the MDs can offer little help. That's how it is...
Even if the allergy test came back negative, she could still have a problem with dairy. I think you need to change your diet ASAP. No dairy, sugar and grains. See if it helps. Make sure you eat enough fat (butter, coconut oil, animal fats and olive oil, cod liver oil!!!) and no vegetable oils or soy. Don't believe the docs who say diet has nothing to do with it. Mom's diet can ruin everything. Especially that your babe has health issues. I think you will benefit from the cheat sheet...

My DD1 who is 3 had reflux issues and Zantac didn't do a thing. And then she developed eczema. Of course I had no clue... Now I know that I did it all wrong. My diet during pregnancy was horrible- low fat and high sugar and even during breastfeeding. And I was ignorant enough to feed her cereals starting at 4 months blindly following the ped's advice and then continue the low-fat madness.

When I was pregnant with DD2 I also developed eczema that stayed with me even after giving birth. So I started researching it and learned a ton about how poor diet affects us and the babes. So I changed my diet radically. DD2 had never had reflux, very little burping, very little gas if any, no eczema etc etc.

She does have yeast (mostly diaper rash) too just like DD1 and me. We've been working hard to get rid of it and it's really really hard. DD1 does well on SCD, when I manage to keep her on it she is rash free. But DH and family are against it and always sabotage my efforst to keep her junk-free.

Caedmyn,

It takes about 1-2 days for my DD1 to break out after exposure to sugar/junk/most grains. But she will get itchy soon after eating and/or tummy ache. And then it'll take 4-5 days to 2 weeks to clear it up. And then MIL strike again... I give her enzyemes to minimize the damage and her only probiotics is SCD yogurt. I know I need to give her more strains... But it's always the question of money.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
Sorry if this was mentioned before, but to make coconut milk kefir -- you can use water grains, right? Do you add any sweetner? And do you mix in any water, or just straight coconut milk?

I use water grains, no added sweetner or water.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vxclayborn* 
Hi Everyone,

I hope I am on the right board. I have a question... I'm new to all this. This is long and I apologize in advance.

My DD is currently 13 months and has been through the ringer:

Before she was born I suspected she had intestinal issues. She had hiccups (seems benign right?) 5-6 times a day during my pregnancy and it runs in my family (both grandfathers, g-ma, dad and bro all have severe esophogeal problems) After she was born she was doing some gurggling, tried to ignore it thinking I was being overprotective. At exactly 2 weeks old she through up her entire meal for the first time and was awake and fussing for 13 hours straight, couldn't keep anything down so took her to Emergenc room. They told me it was "Colic" and it was normal, it's just hard adjusting to being a first time mom. I saw her pediatrician and she immediately put her on Zantac and Reglan (my mom really protested reglan b/c its actually a drug for nuero probs). Stayed on a heavy dose of both for the next 4 months with continued pain, and vomiting of every meal. (We ended up nursing every hour on the hour to get some sort of food in her system) At around 5 months she looked terrible... dehydrated, rashy, and just plain irritable. Finally got an appt with a Pediatric GI specialist (2 month wait) she also kinda pooh-poohed me and said I was "breastfeeding incorrectly" but orderd an upper GI to appease me. UGI revealed that her stomach is incredibly large, and was detached on one side and she had an intestinal malrotation. So everytime she would eat her stomach would flip up and what she did get down got stuck! They booked her for immediate surgery and sent us home a week later. That night she began vomiting bile and we headed back to the hospital. We stayed for an additional 2 weeks before they realized she had another inermittent malrotation. She had nothing by mouth for 21 day and was on nutrition via a central line. Since the surgery the vomiting is much better.

However, we battle consipation and reflux issues daily. If we give her milk of magnesia she poops almost straight water (even the smallest dose) but if we don't use it she gets backed up to her armpits and can't eat, sleep, or be happy. In addition, we have realized she is allergic to red dye, Reglan and Penicillian.
I suspected a milk allergy, and her doc did a RAST test came back negative. However, I heard that they aren't very consistent.

Today we discovered she is aspirating liquids and we have to thicken everything to at least nectar consistency. (I suspected but had to wait 6 weeks for an appt.) Docs are concerned about aspiration, but gave me the go ahead to continue BF, she doesn't struggle with that. They say the swallowing problem is most likely reflux related. (She has continual stridor and reccurrent esophagitis)

Most medical professionals I speak with treat this like something I just have to deal with, and medicate. I'm so frustrated. Eating should be enjoyable and she is flat out miserable.

Sorry this was so long, I just wanted to give the big picture. Hope there is someone who could pass on some good advice.









mama
DD2 had many similar problems. I don't have a lot of time to post right now but will add more later.

PLEASE PLEASE get her off the Reglan. That drug is terrible. DD was on it (even though my gut instinct was not to give it to her,) and it caused more problems than it solved. The drug was originally marketed and developed for schizophrenia, was taken off the market for a while and then sold again to help with gut motility.









How do the two even relate? They don't. That is big pharma talking.

I'll post more about our experience later.

In the meantime, read the sticky about healing the gut at the top of the health and healing forum.

Sounds to me like the SCD (Specific Carbohydrate Diet) will help you (and your dc.)


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I have added coconut oil back into my diet. I am at 2 t. a day and I have an eczema flair up (mine is just tight, dry, burning skin all over my body that isn't relieved by any lotion) and I am getting huge underground zits in different areas. DS also has little patches all over his body now. It does not cause me any stomach distress as it did before. I don't know how long to keep trying at this low dose or if this is still too strong of a reaction and I should not use it.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Hi Mamas,

I need some advice. I have seen 2 practitioners, a DOM and an AK. I stopped after a few appts because I start to feel like I know more than them and need to choose carefully where I spend my $$. But at the same time, its so hard emotionally to do this on your own, especially when you're working so hard and nothing is happening. If nothing else, I just want someone to talk to about my protocal on a regular basis. I know you are all here, but you are in the same boat and need to direct your energy your way, not mine







. I want the person to be well read, to feel like they know at least what I do (for example, the AK tested me for progesterone and I needed it, but everything Ive read says that progesterone feeds yeast). I know there's no magic fix. Is it realistic to think that I can work with someone on this? The emotional part of having a team-mate would be great, but dont we all keep coming back to the fact that we know more than everyone we see? Anyway, I found an ND in my area and am interested in seeing her, but am I kidding myself. Isnt it just the desire to figure something out when in fact I just need to keep throwing things at this to see what sticks? My main question has to do with the reflux. It has to relate to dysbiosis, but I dont know how, and I cant find anything in my searches except a few accounts of people who treated their reflux by treating yeast succesfully. It just seems like, if it is yeast, why am I working my arse off treating yeast and nothing has changed! Except that I now have this sore throat that is utterly miserable, swollen, burning, full, constant. So what do you think? The ND I spoke with said this is not a quick fix kind of thing but if I want to work with her as explorers, that would be what we'd do. I definitely liked that. What do ND's know/do exactly? Thank you


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Those who make coconut kefir, is this b/c you arent doing dairy? If you were would you do dairy instead? That is, do you get any more benefits probiotically from dairy vs. alternate milk kefir?


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

One more thing; *digestive enzymes*. I took digest gold for a month and didnt notice a difference in my digestion or stool quality/quantity. What am I accomplishing by taking them? i.e. is this an expense I *should* maintain in my protocal? (I think the point of them is to better digest food so you dont get alergic or feed yeast, is that right? So even if I dont notice differences does that mean they are still accomplishing this and I should continue?)


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

vxclayborn: I'm so sorry.

I have to agree about the meds. It feels like the docs are helping by managing your little one's case, but they aren't. Treating the symptoms never resolves anything.

I totally get how afraid and helpless you must feel. I wish you had never had to go through this. I had something happen with dd that was pretty hard for us too. Doc's recommended drugs, invasive procedures and surgery. She was in BAD shape. I was very lucky to be in the alternative healthcare system myself and was able to navigate the waters and draw upon many resources.

The docs were insistent that she wouldn't get better on her own and my mother refused to hold her because she was convinced she'd never make it. I had faith that we could find something that would work and acutally correct her many problems.

It was a long road. She was tube fed and totally unresponsive. She refluxed everything she took in, and she could only take in about a 1/2 an ounce at a time. She was FTT. She turned blue more times than I can count. IT was awful.

We treated her using homeopathy, craniosacral therapy, physical therapy and chiropractic. She never got those "life saving" meds or procedures (except for a GI scan which I insisted they use breastmilk for) She is now 2.5, has some food allergies but is otherwise fine. She is not the same kid at all. I know the ONLY reason she is the way she is today is because I ignored the conventional advice. I will be forever in debt to my D.Ht, DC, PT and IBCLC.

THose fancy diagnoses are just labels. It's really hard to understand that as a mom watching your child suffer. What I had to come to terms with was they are useless. Only when you fix the inderlying issues (which in your kiddos case sounds significantly structural) will they be able to heal.

I'm not telling you what to do by any means, just offering what helped us. My suggestion would be to find a good CST that works on babies. They will be able to help with the reflux and any residual intestinal problems. Do change your diet. How and what are you feeding at this time?

I have many ideas about what *could* be going on for your little one. I don't want to overwhelm you though and anything I say is just an instinctual response to what you are describing. nak anyway so sorry if this seems a bit terse.

Welcome to our little tribe though, and I hope you can find something that helps you.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
Those who make coconut kefir, is this b/c you arent doing dairy? If you were would you do dairy instead? That is, do you get any more benefits probiotically from dairy vs. alternate milk kefir?

I'm not doing it because I have to get some grains. I'm not rushing on that though because I'm personally not a huge fan of kefir-I much prefer yogurt and even that is a chore to eat.

We do coconut based yogurt because we cannot do dairy in any form. If we could do dairy I'd likely stick with the coconut, but I would like to have some butter! I've just never been a big advocate of humans eating dairy, but that's just my own personal issue. Many people experience healing with it.


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## mamajaillet (Jul 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
Those who make coconut kefir, is this b/c you arent doing dairy? If you were would you do dairy instead? That is, do you get any more benefits probiotically from dairy vs. alternate milk kefir?

Our experience has been that the dairy kefir is more healing. My husband says there is a HUGE difference for him, and I must say that for myself (I can't do the dairy), the water kefir has not helped as much as I has hoped. My understanding is that milk kefir has far more good bugs due to a symbiotic relationship betwween the kefir cultures and the good bugs already present in milk. I have a strong feeling that I need the milk kefir to heal, but can't have it because babe, and I suppose therefore me, can't tolerate it.







:


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

ff,
I'm going to post a ? for you in SCD chefs.







:


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

rash on her tummy allergy or other?

DD has a rash on her tummy. Like heat rash but she hasn't been overheated. She is just getting over a viral infection that had it's own rash and this is similar but not the same (and in a new spot).

Could this be an allergic reaction to something or is it more likely a viral rash. We had sausages for dinner last night and I don't know all the spices in them but I think they were scd legal at least. This morning we had some oatmeal. We eat oatmeal 1-4x a week or so just for the past few weeks. So far it hasn't caused any problems but today she is also acting like she had an allergen. Yesterday for breakfast she had sausages and then complained (for the first time ever) that her tummy was hurting. When she got adjusted by the chiro that afternoon she said that the part of her back that was out of whack wasn't the normal part and it was connected to her digestion/stomach.

I'm thinking I need to get dd allergy tested. She has begun having more allergic type reactions. She had a bright red rash on her face the other day and I have no idea what caused it but it sure seemed to be an allergic reaction. Now the fun of finding a good pediatric allergist.


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## vxclayborn (Nov 13, 2006)

Firefaery-

We are not eating the best. DH and I are both exhausted grad students *trying* to avoid sending DD to daycare or get into debt over our heads. So we parent and go to school (he works also) in shifts. We eat almost entirely organic meat, my parent's raise grass fed beef and lamb. Our veggie intake is mostly frozen from grocery store and then steamed. We eat whole grain for the most part. We have begun to limit dairy. I have a identified milk (and corn) sensitivity and have almost terrible cravings for dairy. I was on WIC during entire pregnancy and 1st year of BF so we had alot around. I induge in Coffee and Diet coke during the two days a week I attend school b/c I start my day at 5am and it ends around 11pm. I don't want to deny my daughter health but we are broke and tired. I'm a recovered bulimic so I do fear regimenting my eating. I'm just afraid I can't do "it all" what would be most beneficial?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
rash on her tummy allergy or other?

DD has a rash on her tummy. Like heat rash but she hasn't been overheated. She is just getting over a viral infection that had it's own rash and this is similar but not the same (and in a new spot).

Could this be an allergic reaction to something or is it more likely a viral rash. We had sausages for dinner last night and I don't know all the spices in them but I think they were scd legal at least. This morning we had some oatmeal. We eat oatmeal 1-4x a week or so just for the past few weeks. So far it hasn't caused any problems but today she is also acting like she had an allergen. Yesterday for breakfast she had sausages and then complained (for the first time ever) that her tummy was hurting. When she got adjusted by the chiro that afternoon she said that the part of her back that was out of whack wasn't the normal part and it was connected to her digestion/stomach.

I'm thinking I need to get dd allergy tested. She has begun having more allergic type reactions. She had a bright red rash on her face the other day and I have no idea what caused it but it sure seemed to be an allergic reaction. Now the fun of finding a good pediatric allergist.

We can start our own "I've been trying to heal the gut for months now and my kid is getting worse" club







:


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vxclayborn* 
Firefaery-

We are not eating the best. DH and I are both exhausted grad students *trying* to avoid sending DD to daycare or get into debt over our heads. So we parent and go to school (he works also) in shifts. We eat almost entirely organic meat, my parent's raise grass fed beef and lamb. Our veggie intake is mostly frozen from grocery store and then steamed. We eat whole grain for the most part. We have begun to limit dairy. I have a identified milk (and corn) sensitivity and have almost terrible cravings for dairy. I was on WIC during entire pregnancy and 1st year of BF so we had alot around. I induge in Coffee and Diet coke during the two days a week I attend school b/c I start my day at 5am and it ends around 11pm. I don't want to deny my daughter health but we are broke and tired. I'm a recovered bulimic so I do fear regimenting my eating. I'm just afraid I can't do "it all" what would be most beneficial?

Sorry I wasn't more clear...what are you feeding your dd?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
We can start our own "I've been trying to heal the gut for months now and my kid is getting worse" club







:

Sadly I should be in the club too.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

How many of you who feel your dc's aren't getting any better are still doing dairy?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

We haven't done dairy since August and I'm considering trying goat diary again made into yogurt to see if that will help dd. I can't get her to eat more than a spoonful of the coconut yogurt but she always ate the cow and goat yogurt willingly.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
How many of you who feel your dc's aren't getting any better are still doing dairy?

Have not touched dairy since August. Considering trying coconut yogurt again, Was off all coconut for a while, and have started up very slowly with CO. I am thinking about ordering custom probiotics and making yogurt out of that. Question is do I order the probiotic for myself or for DS? (I can only afford 1 right now)I know that around here people keep saying 'concentrate on healing yourself first.'

DS no longer spits up, that is better. But his eczema has gotten worse since I started.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Please give me input on what I should try to address with the pediatric allergist. Our first appt is on Monday and it is a military hospital.

HOw much do I tell them about what diet I have been following and what I have been doing for DS?

What tests should I ask for?


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## vxclayborn (Nov 13, 2006)

Firefaery- sorry its finals and my brains not working well

She nurses anywhere from 4-8 times a day. Breakfast is typically egg, Whole wheat toast, and a baby grain cereal made with water and natural apple sauce. Lunch is typically beans, tofu, and leftover vegetables from the night before. Dinner is what we are eating but she typically doesn't eat much: Today is was a Tablespoon of tofu and a bite of potatoes (with milk in them) and rice cereal. She typically snacks on multi grain crackers, nutri grain bars, cheerios, or graham crackers. She drinks thickened water or rice milk.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Please give me input on what I should try to address with the pediatric allergist. Our first appt is on Monday and it is a military hospital.

HOw much do I tell them about what diet I have been following and what I have been doing for DS?

What tests should I ask for?

Well, I kept quiet about my diet and supplements for the most part, and I tried not to bring up phrases like "allergy load" or "leaky gut" and such, until I had a feel for him. I actually had decided that he wasn't going to be very receptive when I accidentally slipped up and said something about "allergy load" and he totally gave me this condescending speech. He also was very emphatic about how allergies are just "bad genetics" and nothing more. Grrrr.

I didn't get the feeling he would have been open to IgG testing either, so we just did the skin prick. From what I understand, the skin prick and RAST blood test (both IgE testing) have the same accuracy rate (which apparently isn't very high), so one or the other isn't necessarily better. Personally, I would like to have had more substances tested, which is how RAST is superior, imo (can test lots of substances with one blood draw). He only did 8 skin pricks, the major 8 on the pediatric panel, which did *not* include nuts or fish. He was very disinclined to do a blood draw on a baby/toddler (not that I love the idea either).

Now that we've eliminated our major allergens (corn and dairy, but also soy, nuts and fish, for good measure), others are becoming more obvious (mostly fruits). If I liked the guy, I would go back to test for the ones that have me concerned, but since I don't, I think I'll just have to figure it out for myself.

Sorry, I'm rambling! I hope you have a really, really good experience. Good luck with the appt.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vxclayborn* 
Firefaery- sorry its finals and my brains not working well

She nurses anywhere from 4-8 times a day. Breakfast is typically egg, Whole wheat toast, and a baby grain cereal made with water and natural apple sauce. Lunch is typically beans, tofu, and leftover vegetables from the night before. Dinner is what we are eating but she typically doesn't eat much: Today is was a Tablespoon of tofu and a bite of potatoes (with milk in them) and rice cereal. She typically snacks on multi grain crackers, nutri grain bars, cheerios, or graham crackers. She drinks thickened water or rice milk.

Okay. Well, you are not going to like what I would suggest, but here it is: If it were me in your situation I would absolutely not think twice about eliminating gluten, dairy and soy. I may even think about egg. Just to see how it goes. Those are all very common allergens and many people see a huge turnaround with them gone. I would say that you may want to do it for around 6 weeks and see what has changed. I know it's never fun to do it, but if you were interested in finding out more (both about why to do it and what you could sub. with) there are many mamas to help you through it.

You said you have already thought about the dairy. I hope this isn't too overwhelming for you. Have you had a chance to read the cheat sheet?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Have not touched dairy since August. Considering trying coconut yogurt again, Was off all coconut for a while, and have started up very slowly with CO. I am thinking about ordering custom probiotics and making yogurt out of that. Question is do I order the probiotic for myself or for DS? (I can only afford 1 right now)I know that around here people keep saying 'concentrate on healing yourself first.'

DS no longer spits up, that is better. But his eczema has gotten worse since I started.

I think it is important to heal yourself first, but if you only have $ for one I would get it for him. Probiotic strains do not pass through bm and really it's one of the most important parts of gut healing. I know for us I shelled out for the little one on that front. I figured at least his little gut had a fighting chance with it.


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

I am a newbie and have a lot of questions. If they have been answered in this thread, I am sorry. Also, I have started looking at some of the things on the cheat sheet, but really have only just started.
First, we have a 7 mos old who has eczema which started in the folds of her arms and legs and now over her whole body, literally. She is ebf (played around with solids for a few weeks, but back to bfing only) and I am on an elimination diet. So, from the bit I have read here it sounds like I need to work on my own gut. I don't think I have major problems, partly stuffy nose a lot, which I am starting to think is related to food intolerances as well. No yeast infections, except one while I was pg, first real one in years, so I don't think I have yeast, although I know precious little. What would be other major indicators?
Then, how would you know if a baby has yeast? I need to start to help her at least a little, because she is going crazy. I read some posts about enzymes. Would you give that to a baby? And CLO? I also read a post somewhere about quercetin and L-glutamine. Would that be something you can give to a baby?I am getting her some probiotics and dairy free ones for me. And am trying to eat some coconut oil an coconut milk. I could not get any into her for the life of me. (Caedmyn, thanks for responding about the oil, I never got around to post a thank you).
This is all very overwhelming, so any ideas would be really appreciated.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
How many of you who feel your dc's aren't getting any better are still doing dairy?

Not me--I haven't had any dairy since Sep. 23.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Have not touched dairy since August. Considering trying coconut yogurt again, Was off all coconut for a while, and have started up very slowly with CO. I am thinking about ordering custom probiotics and making yogurt out of that. Question is do I order the probiotic for myself or for DS? (I can only afford 1 right now)I know that around here people keep saying 'concentrate on healing yourself first.'

DS no longer spits up, that is better. But his eczema has gotten worse since I started.

I would get them for your DS--you can give them to him directly and in yogurt if he'll eat in, and then you can always eat the yogurt, too, and that will stretch them out a lot since you only use a little to make yogurt. There are so many things you can do as an adult for probiotics that he might not be able to do or to get enough of to make a difference (ie you can drink 32 oz of water kefir or kombucha or eat 4 cups of yogurt a day if you need to). Plus they will only sell you 25 grams for a baby, not for an adult.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
I am a newbie and have a lot of questions. If they have been answered in this thread, I am sorry. Also, I have started looking at some of the things on the cheat sheet, but really have only just started.
First, we have a 7 mos old who has eczema which started in the folds of her arms and legs and now over her whole body, literally. She is ebf (played around with solids for a few weeks, but back to bfing only) and I am on an elimination diet. So, from the bit I have read here it sounds like I need to work on my own gut. I don't think I have major problems, partly stuffy nose a lot, which I am starting to think is related to food intolerances as well. No yeast infections, except one while I was pg, first real one in years, so I don't think I have yeast, although I know precious little. What would be other major indicators?
Then, how would you know if a baby has yeast? I need to start to help her at least a little, because she is going crazy. I read some posts about enzymes. Would you give that to a baby? And CLO? I also read a post somewhere about quercetin and L-glutamine. Would that be something you can give to a baby?I am getting her some probiotics and dairy free ones for me. And am trying to eat some coconut oil an coconut milk. I could not get any into her for the life of me. (Caedmyn, thanks for responding about the oil, I never got around to post a thank you).
This is all very overwhelming, so any ideas would be really appreciated.

How long have you been off dairy? I had a persistant postnasal drip and DD was always slightly congested--both of those cleared up when I eliminated dairy.

There are so many symptoms that can indicate yeast--mine were horrible gas, yeast-infection type itchiness (although I never had yeast infections), acne, some mood swings, and a couple of others I can't think of right at the moment. If the mom has yeast it's pretty likely baby does too, IMO. DD's yeast symptoms are eczema, yeast rashes (little bumps in various places), and cradle cap. I don't think all eczema is caused by yeast, though, so your DD's may not be.

Have you tried CLO and evening primrose oil (for you) to help with her eczema? You can give her CLO directly if she'll take it. What probiotics are you giving her? You can do feremented foods or drinks (kombucha, water kefir, non-dairy yogurt) for yourself instead of probiotic powder/capsules--the fermented foods/drinks are much stronger (and much cheaper).


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I would get them for your DS--you can give them to him directly and in yogurt if he'll eat in, and then you can always eat the yogurt, too, and that will stretch them out a lot since you only use a little to make yogurt. There are so many things you can do as an adult for probiotics that he might not be able to do or to get enough of to make a difference (ie you can drink 32 oz of water kefir or kombucha or eat 4 cups of yogurt a day if you need to). Plus they will only sell you 25 grams for a baby, not for an adult.

Can you post the name and number for the custom probiotics person? Thanks!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
I am a newbie and have a lot of questions. If they have been answered in this thread, I am sorry. Also, I have started looking at some of the things on the cheat sheet, but really have only just started.
First, we have a 7 mos old who has eczema which started in the folds of her arms and legs and now over her whole body, literally. She is ebf (played around with solids for a few weeks, but back to bfing only) and I am on an elimination diet. So, from the bit I have read here it sounds like I need to work on my own gut. I don't think I have major problems, partly stuffy nose a lot, which I am starting to think is related to food intolerances as well. No yeast infections, except one while I was pg, first real one in years, so I don't think I have yeast, although I know precious little. What would be other major indicators?
Then, how would you know if a baby has yeast? I need to start to help her at least a little, because she is going crazy. I read some posts about enzymes. Would you give that to a baby? And CLO? I also read a post somewhere about quercetin and L-glutamine. Would that be something you can give to a baby?I am getting her some probiotics and dairy free ones for me. And am trying to eat some coconut oil an coconut milk. I could not get any into her for the life of me. (Caedmyn, thanks for responding about the oil, I never got around to post a thank you).
This is all very overwhelming, so any ideas would be really appreciated.

Welcome! I still feel new here and I have been around for 6 months. I wish I had read 'Enzymes for Autism' by Karen Delfelice before I had done any diet changes. It will explain all about enzymes. Also 'Bacteria for Breakfeast' is another good read.

I agree with the others that cutting out dairy is the first thing to try.


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

To everyone that doesn't eat/drink dairy. This maybe a dumb question, do you all still eat/drink milk kefir and yogurt.


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
We can start our own "I've been trying to heal the gut for months now and my kid is getting worse" club







:

I think we need a group hug.









Interestingly, I hadn't been on here in a few days, but it seems like I've been having a parallel thought process to a lot of you. After a lot of soul searching, I've decided to reintroduce a few grains, but stay gluten free, and focus on getting good bugs into me instead of avoiding bad bugs. I think I've gotten too focused on negative things (avoiding bad foods and focusing on bad reactions) and it is really stressing me out and making me have very negative energy. I'm not normally all that into the energy focus of things, but I do know that I am more stressed now than I have ever been, what with having so much food to prepare from scratch, watching everything I put in mouth, wohing, and trying to have some time with my kids. I really notice it when I'm nursing because it takes so much longer for my milk to let-down (and the little one lets me know she isn't so happy with that!), and I think its just because my body is staying in a state of hyper-stress, with tons of damaging cortosil and adrenaline (sp?) constantly running through it.

So, I'm still staying egg, dairy, and gluten free (and all the other trigger foods - cinnamon, uncooked fruits, etc), but I'm going to do some brown rice and corn. And I'm really going to focus on getting good guys in me - komboucha, water kefir, fermented veggies, etc. I also just got some Custom Probiotics, which I'm going to start tonight. I'll have to moderate all this to manage potential die-off. I'm also going to cut out nuts because I'm seeing some signs that nuts are causing issues. And banana - I think they are causing diaper rash. The nuts were the straw for me - I really don't think I can do SCD with no nuts, eggs, or dairy. That's too much for me to handle emotionally.

I'm also going to MAKE myself start doing yoga, and I'm going to do some baby yoga (I got the book Itsy Bitsy Yoga) with the little one and see if it helps her, too.

So, this is my new regimen. Assuming it goes ok, I'm going to stick with for the rest of the year, and then might restart SCD in January. I still can't eat a lot because I have to introduce things so very slowly to figure out what is a trigger (like 1 new food every 2 weeks - I think I'm up to 30 foods now, but every now and then a "safe" food falls off the list!).

DD has had a diaper rash/red patch on her labia (just one side) for a week now. It isn't spotty, and I don't think it is yeast, but I can't get it to go away. I thought it might be the potassium from bananas and cut those out, and its still hanging around 5 days later. Any ideas?

On the upside, the little one is almost completely spit-up and vomit free. Hooray! The poop is still hit or miss with the right consistency and color, but she is pooping regularly. So, things are a lot better, and I just need to keep thinking about that. It's just that I'm so much more aware now of everything else that is an issue or a potential issue. I want to be informed and blissful - oh, one day . . .


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beachbuminthecity* 
To everyone that doesn't eat/drink dairy. This maybe a dumb question, do you all still eat/drink milk kefir and yogurt.

No. Dairy kefir and yogurt are generally well-tolerated by people with lactose intolerance, but not those with casein (milk protein) intolerances or allergies.


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## mamajaillet (Jul 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
I have used Progurt by GI Health. It is supposedly allergen free.

Thanks firefairy, I will check this out.
It sounds like Bacteria for Breakfast is something I should read, and I think that if I get some books, I will actually be able to learn more. I feel so icky when I try to research on the computer for any length of time, I think from the emfs.








to all of you who feel like things are worse. We have experienced this too, more with my older boys than the babe, and it is frustrating. I honestly wonder if my obsessing about food allergies/gut issues didn't manifest more problems








I do feel that no healing can take place if all of my thought energy in this home is on how sick we all are.

Has anyone here healed, or known anyone from MDC that has? It would be nice to know that it happens, kwim?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Have not touched dairy since August. Considering trying coconut yogurt again, Was off all coconut for a while, and have started up very slowly with CO. I am thinking about ordering custom probiotics and making yogurt out of that. Question is do I order the probiotic for myself or for DS? (I can only afford 1 right now)I know that around here people keep saying 'concentrate on healing yourself first.'

DS no longer spits up, that is better. But his eczema has gotten worse since I started.

I would get the probiotics for your dc. The research seems to indicate that the sooner you get the gut flora sorted out the more likely it is for it to effect a permanent change. It is probably very difficult if not impossible to permanently fix an adults gut flora but a babies is much more likely.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beachbuminthecity* 
To everyone that doesn't eat/drink dairy. This maybe a dumb question, do you all still eat/drink milk kefir and yogurt.

Nope. Just Ghee becasue it doesn't seem to effect dd at all and I like the taste.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajaillet* 
Has anyone here healed, or known anyone from MDC that has? It would be nice to know that it happens, kwim?

I've done some healing, at least as far as my symptoms mostly disappearing. Obviously I need to heal a lot more, though, since DD is still reacting to things I eat. A couple of people who post every once in a while have healed (JaneS and GaleForce). Hopefully some of the regulars who have healed will post their experiences, too. Of course, the jury is still out on whether anyone ever truly heals, as opposed to just being symptom free.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Nolansmum--here's the link with the Custom Probiotics contact info...I think the guy's name is Harry but I'm not sure--he's the one who always answered the phone when I called. http://www.customprobiotics.com/contactus.htm


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajaillet* 
Has anyone here healed, or known anyone from MDC that has? It would be nice to know that it happens, kwim?

Next month will mark our 1 year *htg* anniversary. I feel I've healed but dd still reacts to things in my b'milk so I've obviously not healed *enough*.

The thing about this healing is that it's a process. Just when I think I've got one thing nipped in the bud, another pops up to learn about and explore.

If I weren't still b'feeding dd I probably would not frequent this tribe so much anymore (except to *visit* w/my mamas)







because I no longer have the symptoms I once did.

The healing (and the SCD) have done wonderful things for me. Not everyone has this experience, you have to find what works for you.

After a little while doing this, it becomes a way of life.

Don't despair, there are success stories. We just don't post about them as much as we do the frustration.


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Next month will mark our 1 year *htg* anniversary. I feel I've healed but dd still reacts to things in my b'milk so I've obviously not healed *enough*.

The thing about this healing is that it's a process. Just when I think I've got one thing nipped in the bud, another pops up to learn about and explore.

If I weren't still b'feeding dd I probably would not frequent this tribe so much anymore (except to *visit* w/my mamas)







because I no longer have the symptoms I once did.

The healing (and the SCD) have done wonderful things for me. Not everyone has this experience, you have to find what works for you.

After a little while doing this, it becomes a way of life.

Don't despair, there are success stories. We just don't post about them as much as we do the frustration.









So true


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

took ds to the ND today - mostly for the mild yeast rash at the corners of his mouth whose appearance corresponded with the new pattern of constipation on the weekends.

while chatting with the ND, i mentioned that ds grinds his teeth at night. sooo... apparently bruxism is linked with parasites. parasites can cause constipation. ND recommended the homeopathic remedy Cina (pronounced China, see http://www.abchomeopathy.com/r.php/Cina. for more info). [not that there's ANY scientific literature addressing the bruxism-parasite connection except in regard to malaria parasites - not something ds is likely to have]

we've got other overlapping symptoms... the dark sunken look in the eyes, the nose picking (I'm sure that if I mentioned this one to the ND, he would have honed in on Cina a lot sooner), and some of the irritability though not the "biting one's friends", if there is such a symptom.

he also did some CST and felt a pop at lumbar 3. L3 is key to digestion - it is the nerve that ennervates the bowels, and the blood supply to the bowels also comes from this region. so it could also just be that ds's bowels weren't getting enough blood and hence, not enough water. doesn't really explaining the periodicity though. not that i'm happy about thinking about the possibility of pin worms in ds, in me, in dh, in the cats...

oh, and ds can tolerate being in the office for about 2 minutes. then he wants to flee, or at least see the fish in the waiting room. anyone else have dcs with short attention spans for treatment?


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

I don't have children, but I use to have a bad attention span. I have yeast issues also. I have a rash around mouth (mostly at corners), it use to be 10x's worse until I change my diet--no sugar (but now I can put some fruit in my kefir)--low carbs, probiotics, and I was taking antifungals on and off. Since I have changed everything and had to up and change my thyroid meds--they were changed to armour at the starting does. I think thyroid involves other things too. Anyway, I hoped that helped a little.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
took ds to the ND today - mostly for the mild yeast rash at the corners of his mouth whose appearance corresponded with the new pattern of constipation on the weekends.

while chatting with the ND, i mentioned that ds grinds his teeth at night. sooo... apparently bruxism is linked with parasites. parasites can cause constipation. ND recommended the homeopathic remedy Cina (pronounced China, see http://www.abchomeopathy.com/r.php/Cina. for more info).


Very interesting!


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

bluets-wow about the bruxism/parasite connection. Hope that remedy helps. Had you suspected parasites before? Yet again, you bring up subjects that can affect a lot of us.

DS has started to grind his teeth during the day, don't know what to make of it.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
bluets-wow about the bruxism/parasite connection. Hope that remedy helps. Had you suspected parasites before? Yet again, you bring up subjects that can affect a lot of us.

DS has started to grind his teeth during the day, don't know what to make of it.

oy - hadn't suspected it at all. the anthelminthic drugs are pretty toxic to little ones, so we'd like to avoid those if necessary. and the ND didn' want me to obsess about the parasites either. who me? obsess?

ds went through a stint when he did the grinding thing during the day. i am also a chronic night-time tooth grinder - mine is so bad that sometimes i wake myself up


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

I ran across this and thought it might be of interest:

Quote:

The effect of feeding carrots on immunoglobulin E production and anaphylactic response in mice.

* Akiyama H,
* Hoshino K,
* Tokuzumi M,
* Teshima R,
* Mori H,
* Inakuma T,
* Ishiguro Y,
* Goda Y,
* Sawada J,
* Toyoda M.

National Institute of Health Sciences, Tokyo, Japan.

Carrot juice was administered orally to BALB/c mice immunized intraperitoneally with dinitrophenylated (DNP)-OVA for about 1 month. The titers of DNP-specific IgE, DNP-specific IgG, and the levels of total IgE in mouse sera were determined. The DNP-specific IgE production by mice fed carrot juice was significantly inhibited. On the other hand, the DNP-specific IgG production and the level of total IgE in mice fed carrot juice were not significantly different from those in control mice. We also examined the effect of feeding carrots on immediate-type hypersensitivity. One hour after antigen stimulation, the ears of mice fed carrots swelled less than those of control mice. Furthermore, the rise in serum histamine in the mice fed carrots under active systemic anaphylaxis was lower than in controls. We then examined the pattern of cytokine production by spleen cells from mice followed by restimulation with DNP-OVA in vitro. The spleen cells from the mice fed carrots produced more interferon-gamma than those from the control group. In contrast, the spleen cells from the mice fed carrots produced less interleukin-4 than those from the control group. Furthermore, the interleukin-12 production of the spleen cells from mice fed carrots was also higher than that of the control group. These findings suggest that feeding carrots improves the helper T cell (Th)1/Th2 balance, inhibiting specific IgE production and antigen-induced anaphylactic response.

PMID: 10408224 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

My DD's teeth grinding at night as gotten significantly better since we started paying more attention to magnesium. Now, if only I could get rid of the dark circles under her eyes, which have gotten worse since I have actively been trying to do something about them.


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## TzippityDoulah (Jun 29, 2005)

Hello all. I'm new here... and I had a few questions. I don't know if any of this has already been covered but I'm going to ask anyhow









I am having serious "gut" issues. I'm eating a very NT/WAPF diet which has helped a bit... but I'm having problems digesting any and all carbs. grains, fruits, and high carb veggies. I bloat right after eating. all over my body but mainly in my stomache. I can look 7 mos pregnancy after just one small meal with even a tiny bit of carbs in it. my face gets puffy as does my hands and feet. it feels like I gain 10lbs in 10 mins.

I'm gaining weight for no reason. I'm a very active person and I spend a great deal of time outdoors. and I eat very well so I'm very discouraged. this only became a problem about 6 or 8 mos ago. I've been dealing with different forms of "IBS" for about 7 years, but the carb issue is new.

a friend of mine recommended I up my intake of probiotics and such thru kefir and the like. I'm getting some kefir next week but in the meantime I'm taking in via pill form. otherwise I'm baffled. if anyone has any other suggestions, or thoguhts I would love the advice. even my doctor just kinda shrugged and tried to prescribe a bunch of meds for "IBS". ugh! no help at all and they had no idea what the problem was.

thanks in advance!!

Laura


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HennyPenny* 
Hello all. I'm new here... and I had a few questions. I don't know if any of this has already been covered but I'm going to ask anyhow









I am having serious "gut" issues. I'm eating a very NT/WAPF diet which has helped a bit... but I'm having problems digesting any and all carbs. grains, fruits, and high carb veggies. I bloat right after eating. all over my body but mainly in my stomache. I can look 7 mos pregnancy after just one small meal with even a tiny bit of carbs in it. my face gets puffy as does my hands and feet. it feels like I gain 10lbs in 10 mins.

I'm gaining weight for no reason. I'm a very active person and I spend a great deal of time outdoors. and I eat very well so I'm very discouraged. this only became a problem about 6 or 8 mos ago. I've been dealing with different forms of "IBS" for about 7 years, but the carb issue is new.

a friend of mine recommended I up my intake of probiotics and such thru kefir and the like. I'm getting some kefir next week but in the meantime I'm taking in via pill form. otherwise I'm baffled. if anyone has any other suggestions, or thoguhts I would love the advice. even my doctor just kinda shrugged and tried to prescribe a bunch of meds for "IBS". ugh! no help at all and they had no idea what the problem was.

thanks in advance!!

Laura

Welcome Laura! I would start out by reading the 'healing the gUt cheat sheet'
It sounds like you would benefit from the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, so check out that link first. You are already doing a good thing by following an NT diet.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

When do I take my probiotics for maximum effectiveness?

I eat fermented veggies with every meal, but when do I drink kefir/take a probiotic supplement? I take Candex on an empty stomach, how does this affect the probiotic?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

vxclayborn, I would also say don't serve leftover veggies to a baby, because not only have they lost most of their nutrients while sitting around overnight, they also get full of molds, which are hard on the immune system. And veggies cook quick anyway.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beachbuminthecity* 
To everyone that doesn't eat/drink dairy. This maybe a dumb question, do you all still eat/drink milk kefir and yogurt.


DD and I just eliminated dairy about three weeks ago. I have made one (yummy) batch of coconut milk yogurt with DD's probiotics.

I am also looking for water kefir grains, but I'm up against a brick wall finding someone who can/will deliver (outside of outrageously priced eBay auctions).

Since we're doing a trial elimination just to see what aspects of dairy she may be reacting to, I can't even try to get milk grains to convert. Once I figure out if her skin problems are caused by the dairy protein, I'll see if milk grains can be utilized.

Of course, after struggling for MONTHS to finally eliminate dairy (I love me some cheese!







), two days after we took the plunge DD got her first patch of eczema. It was the size of a quarter, to the right of her mouth, and it followed her consumption of my homemade egg salad by one hour.

Samantha


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
oh, and ds can tolerate being in the office for about 2 minutes. then he wants to flee, or at least see the fish in the waiting room. anyone else have dcs with short attention spans for treatment?


DD is scared to death of the chiro I go to see. She's fine until he tries to touch her, and then it's all downhill from there. She talks about him constantly on days I have an appointment, says Dr. Pete is her doctor, he helps Mommy's back, and that he's a *ky-ra-practer*. Ask her if she wants to go see him and she says, "No, I stay with Grawnee."

Samantha


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 

while chatting with the ND, i mentioned that ds grinds his teeth at night. sooo... apparently bruxism is linked with parasites. parasites can cause constipation. ND recommended the homeopathic remedy Cina (pronounced China, see http://www.abchomeopathy.com/r.php/Cina. for more info). [not that there's ANY scientific literature addressing the bruxism-parasite connection except in regard to malaria parasites - not something ds is likely to have]

we've got other overlapping symptoms... the dark sunken look in the eyes, the nose picking (I'm sure that if I mentioned this one to the ND, he would have honed in on Cina a lot sooner), and some of the irritability though not the "biting one's friends", if there is such a symptom.

(snip)

oh, and ds can tolerate being in the office for about 2 minutes. then he wants to flee, or at least see the fish in the waiting room. anyone else have dcs with short attention spans for treatment?

ooh, ooh, ooh! gotta try cina tomorrow!

dd1 (5 1/2) has ground her front teeth about halfway down over the past 3 years! she actually hasn't done it much over the past few months, pretty much since we switched from CST to chinese medicine/accupuncture as the current treatment for her eczema/anxiety (i try to stick to one approach at a time, otherwise how can i know what's working?). the CST referred us since she felt that she would keep finding the same stuff each session. she'd work on it and it'd all be back again the next time.

question: are there kids that don't pick their nose?
or adults, even... just look around into other cars at a stoplight...

dd1 really likes her accupuncturist (i do too...). she's very gentle and low key, has a good feel for kids. even so, dd1 mostly just wants to weigh/mix her herbs. she squeals and squirms to avoid being touched, even for pulse assessment, doesn't want her skin looked at. the acc. sneaks the needles in at the back of her neck by playing with her hair. dd1 also won't allow any "brushing" treatment (by me at home either).

at the CST's i would have to spend the whole session distracting dd1 with "i spy" and "where's waldo" to keep her still and to stay on the table. dd1 would get very hyper by the end of the session, usually have a tantrum that evening (not that she doesn't have a few a week anyway...). CST said it was treatment related.

at the dentist she keeps still and calm with ease. i think the fact that CST/acc. treatments stir things up leads to the short attn span.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
So, I spent the last couple of days reeling. I went to a conference on tongue tie and I have so many things swimmin in my head! ALot of what we have been through as a family makes sense. First of all, apparently tongue tie is more apparent in and with each subsequent child. So to me, it is clearly nutritional. This has never been researched, or even apparently thought about. Huh.

An undiagnosed tongue tie negatively affects digestions (we knew that) it can cause bloating, discomfort, constipation and so on and so forth. I didn't really realize to what extent though. Two case studies were presented where the patient was on all kinds of meds for IBD and had all of the symptoms disappear when clipped. That is interesting.

The conference was given because docs are no longer assessing for anything but type 1 ties. Ds had a type 1, 2 and 3. Luckily my LC was on it and called this doc in NY, and was then able to have her talk my doc here through the procedure. Unfortunately although we clipped twice (first the anterior, then posterior) we didn't get the whole thing. Again, interesting. My dd was also assessed at the final day and she is also tied in her labial and lingual frenulums. No suprise that she has digestive issues, as well as speech and dental (space between her two front teeth and bottom front teeth angle in) We are going to have her clipped soon.

this is very interesting to me, because dd2 nursed badly from birth, partly because she didn't get her tongue out far enough to cover her lower gumline. my LLLleader gave us tongue "exercises" to draw out her tongue prior to each nursing, which helped a little, and recommended we see a CST, which we did. the CST worked on/released a number of things, including her tongue. we saw her about 6 times over 2 mos. i remember at the time having already read there were disadvantages to having clipping done (can no longer recall what or where i read it...), and she was nursing adequately, so i left it at that. but in hindsight she might have had some reflux probs, which improved when i cut out chocolate (i had a major dagoba oatmeal choc chip cookie fixation the first 3 weeks of her life), and it seemed like her poops were mostly undigested food the first 6 months she had solids.

so now i read this post and wonder if i should follow this further. dd2's still not a great nurser, she always slides away so that she's latched very shallow. i can only tolerate 5-10 min/side or i get sore, and i limit her frequency much more than i did dd1. she's unvaxed, and loves to eat, gets some sandpaper skin (?eczema) on her trunk/extremities intermittently, with no clear diet provocation. her speech is coming along very slowly, still lots of jargon (at 22mos), even had her hearing tested 2 mos ago because she's had frequent colds, starting with her first at 3 days old (big sister got it 2 days before...).

i also decided to check dd1 (a fine, if relentless, nurser her first 3 yrs), and low and behold she can't get her tongue out very far, and the tip looks slightly forked/pulled down. and her bottom front teeth angle in, too. but her speech was always crisply enunciated (i could get her to parrot "echolalic" at 19 mos), and she was an early (and incessant) talker (like her mother...).

so i'm wondering whether i should do something? who would i go to? a cursory google of tongue tie only shows info on the frenulum up front, doesn't mention posterior or "type 1,2,3," seems to imply clipping is only necessary if severe restriction is present.

firefaery: guidance would be much appreciated.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HennyPenny* 
Hello all. I'm new here... and I had a few questions. I don't know if any of this has already been covered but I'm going to ask anyhow









I am having serious "gut" issues. I'm eating a very NT/WAPF diet which has helped a bit... but I'm having problems digesting any and all carbs. grains, fruits, and high carb veggies. I bloat right after eating. all over my body but mainly in my stomache. I can look 7 mos pregnancy after just one small meal with even a tiny bit of carbs in it. my face gets puffy as does my hands and feet. it feels like I gain 10lbs in 10 mins.

I'm gaining weight for no reason. I'm a very active person and I spend a great deal of time outdoors. and I eat very well so I'm very discouraged. this only became a problem about 6 or 8 mos ago. I've been dealing with different forms of "IBS" for about 7 years, but the carb issue is new.

a friend of mine recommended I up my intake of probiotics and such thru kefir and the like. I'm getting some kefir next week but in the meantime I'm taking in via pill form. otherwise I'm baffled. if anyone has any other suggestions, or thoguhts I would love the advice. even my doctor just kinda shrugged and tried to prescribe a bunch of meds for "IBS". ugh! no help at all and they had no idea what the problem was.

thanks in advance!!

Laura

Do you have any symptoms of a yeast overgrowth? The bloating after eating carbs sounds like it could be caused by a yeast overgrowth.


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I've done some healing, at least as far as my symptoms mostly disappearing. Obviously I need to heal a lot more, though, since DD is still reacting to things I eat. A couple of people who post every once in a while have healed (JaneS and GaleForce). Hopefully some of the regulars who have healed will post their experiences, too. Of course, the jury is still out on whether anyone ever truly heals, as opposed to just being symptom free.

Hi Caedmyn,

I don't know if I asked you what your regimen is and what you take in detail if possible. With me I first need to go strick with foods. Do you think if I PM/email JaneS and Galeforce they would post what they did. I like to try other peoples choices/remedies that I may have not even thought about.


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

Did you all know that cinnamon is an antifungal,antibacterial, and (not sure with this one antiviral).

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/n...s/100740.shtml


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

People maybe having reactions from eggs is because they are antifungals. I highlighted the part where it states that, but the whole article is pretty interesting.

Whose Diet is Really Right?

I have had the honor of interviewing Dr. Ornish and the late, great Dr. Atkins. I found that both men were enthusiastic about their discoveries and shared a childlike energy. Neither disrespected the other, but they did challenge the other's dietary statements. To my amazement, both had solid scientific evidence that they were right and their adversaries were wrong. How could this be?
With all due respect to these two fine doctors, I doubt that either understood that there are regularly eaten foods in the American diet that are "commonly contaminated with myco-toxins [fungal poisons]," according to Ruth Etzel, Ph.D., M.D. (JAMA, 2002;287[4]:425-7).

Dr. Ornish removes animal fat from his patients' diets. Dramatic reversals in heart disease have been noted. Unbeknownst to Dr. Ornish, or at least not appearing in any of his publications, agricultural scientists have documented that when cattle feed on mycotoxin-laden grain, the most dangerous components of this grain (mycotoxins) end up in their fat. When humans eat the fat on meat, logic dictates that they will consume high amounts of mycotoxins, which have been linked to more than just cancer. Heart disease, proven to decrease while on the Dr. Ornish diet, is also linked with dietary mycotoxins. Dr. Ornish also abolishes alcohol, itself a mycotoxin! The Ornish dietary program increases living foods like fruits and vegetables, both being antimycotoxic. Most importantly, people following a prescribed diet begin feeling better, exercising more and spending more time outside in the sun (an antimycotoxin). Their need for medication, particularly antibiotics, diminishes. In my opinion, antibiotics, themselves mycotoxins, will likely be proven to be the most dangerous of all medications. Quite simply, Dr. Ornish's dietary recommendations minimize exposure to mycotoxins, while maximizing the antimycotoxic component of healthy living!

Dr. Atkins proposed eliminating all grains from the diet, along with other forms of carbohydrates. Like Ornish, Atkins patients were also recovering, and most puzzling was the fact that heart disease patients and those with high cholesterol were also dramatically benefiting from the Atkins Diet!
Atkins never knew, to the best of my knowledge, that grains were "commonly contaminated" with mycotoxins. He learned that his heart patients did well when they ate meat and eggs and avoided grains. The mycotoxins in meat are really concentrated in the animal fat, not in the red meat. You might recall that in the '70s and '80s, store meat departments began carefully trimming off the fat in order to fight heart disease. Meat also contains conjugated linoleic acids (CLAs), a fatty acid related to the omega-6 fatty antimycotoxic. *Both meat and eggs have been called the "perfect amino acid [protein building blocks] food blends." Interestingly, all amino acids are antifungal! Additionally, eggs, the villains of yesteryear, have become a food choice for those recovering from fungal or yeast diseases. As it turns out, dietary cholesterol (egg yolk) does not become blood cholesterol, so eggs don't increase cholesterol levels. Rather, egg yolk is loaded with bio tin (antifungal) and amino acids and therefore is a food that contributes to good health.* By avoiding grains on the Atkins Diet, a follower is also avoiding mycotoxins associated with grains in their diet. Atkins allows many vegetables, known to be antimycotoxic. Hence, the Atkins Diet, like the Ornish Diet, minimizes exposure to mycotoxins, while maximizing antimycotoxins!

Both were right, but unfortunately, neither likely understood the ability of fungal poisons to ruin health. Conversely, neither comprehended the incredible healing nature of good food because of its antimycotoxic nature. But now you do!

Yes, diet is important, but understanding why diet is important makes us both prudent consumers AND healthy people!

http://www.healthfood-shop.com/healt...diet_right.php


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## mamajaillet (Jul 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
vxclayborn, I would also say don't serve leftover veggies to a baby, because not only have they lost most of their nutrients while sitting around overnight, they also get full of molds, which are hard on the immune system. And veggies cook quick anyway.

I've recently been wondering about this, because I read recently in a yeast cookbook that one should never eat leftovers. I have always tried to keep our leftovers out of the danger temp range, but never have known how long they were good for. My dh always argued that you heat them back up, so that kills all the bad bugs anyways.

Now that I am really concerned about bad bugs getting in our system, I am wondering about leftover safety, but at the same time, really utilize leftovers to stay sane. Any thoughts?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajaillet* 
I've recently been wondering about this, because I read recently in a yeast cookbook that one should never eat leftovers. I have always tried to keep our leftovers out of the danger temp range, but never have known how long they were good for. My dh always argued that you heat them back up, so that kills all the bad bugs anyways.

Now that I am really concerned about bad bugs getting in our system, I am wondering about leftover safety, but at the same time, really utilize leftovers to stay sane. Any thoughts?

I eat 'em and don't worry about it--too many other things to worry about







I have been trying to eat them up more quickly though, within a day or two.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
When do I take my probiotics for maximum effectiveness?

I eat fermented veggies with every meal, but when do I drink kefir/take a probiotic supplement? I take Candex on an empty stomach, how does this affect the probiotic?

There's a lot of disagreement about whether probiotics should be taken alone or with food...to me it makes sense that they should be taken with food, since that's how they normally are ingested (ie in fermented foods or BM), and they need food themselves. It seems like you could do kefir either with or without food, though, as there should be enough "food" for the good bugs in the kefir itself.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beachbuminthecity* 
Hi Caedmyn,

I don't know if I asked you what your regimen is and what you take in detail if possible. With me I first need to go strick with foods. Do you think if I PM/email JaneS and Galeforce they would post what they did. I like to try other peoples choices/remedies that I may have not even thought about.

I do the candida program from the candidasupport yahoo group. Foods are eggs, good fats, meat, and low carb non-starchy veggies. I take a bunch of vitamin/mineral supplements (ie B vitamins, vitamin E, etc) along with evening primrose oil for DD's eczema. I take 2 tsp. high vitamin CLO a day and eat bone broth and about 1/2 c. of CO a day. I also do herbal infusions for liver support (burdock root, dandelion root, milk thistle) and nettle infusion for calcium and minerals. I take about 10 grams of sodium ascorbate a day divided into 3 doses and I take 200 mg of magnesium a day. I take enzymes with meals and right now I'm taking Betaine HCL with meals to help with low stomach acid. I ate 5 cloves a day of raw garlic for several months but haven't been doing that for about a month. I eat lacto-fermented foods at every meal. I drank cabbage rejuvelac 3x/day for a few months but now I just drink 4-8 oz of water kefirs with each meal and a couple of ounces a day of kombucha. Let me know if you want more detail.

I can give you a general idea of what JaneS and GaleForce did--JaneS did the SCD with enzymes (and I believe she did dairy kefir for a while before she started the SCD). GaleForce did the candida diet I'm doing and added yogurt and kefir in after a few months. I think she said she didn't really do any supplementing with her diet.


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I do the candida program from the candidasupport yahoo group. Foods are eggs, good fats, meat, and low carb non-starchy veggies. I take a bunch of vitamin/mineral supplements (ie B vitamins, vitamin E, etc) along with evening primrose oil for DD's eczema. I take 2 tsp. high vitamin CLO a day and eat bone broth and about 1/2 c. of CO a day. I also do herbal infusions for liver support (burdock root, dandelion root, milk thistle) and nettle infusion for calcium and minerals. I take about 10 grams of sodium ascorbate a day divided into 3 doses and I take 200 mg of magnesium a day. I take enzymes with meals and right now I'm taking Betaine HCL with meals to help with low stomach acid. I ate 5 cloves a day of raw garlic for several months but haven't been doing that for about a month. I eat lacto-fermented foods at every meal. I drank cabbage rejuvelac 3x/day for a few months but now I just drink 4-8 oz of water kefirs with each meal and a couple of ounces a day of kombucha. Let me know if you want more detail.

I can give you a general idea of what JaneS and GaleForce did--JaneS did the SCD with enzymes (and I believe she did dairy kefir for a while before she started the SCD). GaleForce did the candida diet I'm doing and added yogurt and kefir in after a few months. I think she said she didn't really do any supplementing with her diet.

Wow thank you so much.

I just about do what you do, but you have it down. I am going to have to be strict with the diet, I have been not so good, but my symptoms aren't that much worse. I am learning what really triggers them more and I am totally afraid of eating sugar again. I have a hard time with the supplements (meaning remembering them). I am almost to the point of doing it the way Galeforce did hers or maybe do a combo like what we do and stick to it. Can you brief me on the diet you are on.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beachbuminthecity* 
Did you all know that cinnamon is an antifungal,antibacterial, and (not sure with this one antiviral).

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/n...s/100740.shtml

even better is that it (a) survives digestion (when used in oil form, anyway) and (b) it doesn't completely destroy lactic acid bacteria in our guts (lactobacillus and bifidobacteria, in particular) AND (c) it is effective against E. Coli (the pathogenic kind) and Salmonella. there's science supporting these results.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 

question: are there kids that don't pick their nose?
or adults, even... just look around into other cars at a stoplight...


going out on a limb here... i imagine that many of us carry far more parasites than we realize.

i recall reading in Science or Nature (2 prominent scientific journals) that some parasitologist decided that he wanted to see the effects of tapeworms first hand. so he infected himself. as did his entire family. i wonder what happened to him... ETA - Found him! http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten...y/292/5514/47a

a snippet: Troubled by asthma? Hay fever? Obesity? Koichiro Fujita has a cure: Swallow a tapeworm. Off and on over the past 5 years, Fujita, a professor of environmental parasitology at Tokyo Medical and Dental University, has hosted tapeworms in his gut. He believes they not only have helped keep him slim but have cleared up his hay fever. He currently houses three. "Hosting the worms has been very beneficial," he says.

very ot... in some biology circles (those that study birds, for example), there's an immunocompetence theory for mate attraction. that female birds are attracted to the males with the highest parasite load (who also happen to have heavy duty mate-attraction ornamentation -- think of the peacock, for example). the logic being that males who can build those ornaments (biologically speaking) and who can be healthful in spite of the parasites are those males who are likely to survive and pass on their genes (that's what life as a bird is like -- passing on one's genes).


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
My DD's teeth grinding at night as gotten significantly better since we started paying more attention to magnesium. Now, if only I could get rid of the dark circles under her eyes, which have gotten worse since I have actively been trying to do something about them.

mine has gotten better too since i started magnesium. the funny thing about Cina is that it might also help with the dark circles


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamajaillet* 
I've recently been wondering about this, because I read recently in a yeast cookbook that one should never eat leftovers. I have always tried to keep our leftovers out of the danger temp range, but never have known how long they were good for. My dh always argued that you heat them back up, so that kills all the bad bugs anyways.

Now that I am really concerned about bad bugs getting in our system, I am wondering about leftover safety, but at the same time, really utilize leftovers to stay sane. Any thoughts?

You can freeze leftovers in serving sizes. I freeze all my baby food and defrost in the fridge overnight only what he eats the next day.

I try to make big batches of everything I cook because I don't have time to prepare every meal from scratch everyday, I don't have enough energy to worry that the leftovers are making me worse.


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
even better is that it (a) survives digestion (when used in oil form, anyway) and (b) it doesn't completely destroy lactic acid bacteria in our guts (lactobacillus and bifidobacteria, in particular) AND (c) it is effective against E. Coli (the pathogenic kind) and Salmonella. there's science supporting these results.

Well thank you, didn't know that. Boy alot of good things for something that tastes so good for once.

I just started giving it to my brother in-law who has type 2 diabetes and it is really helping his insulin so far, but I am keeping an eye on it to see if it keeps working.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

caedmyn-another question about coconut kefir. I left a half inch of coconut kefir from my first batch in the jar with the grains and over 3 days it turned into a thick yogurt that was very tart. Think it is ok to eat this stuff? I know you said you let your coconut kefir brew for about 12 hrs, why not longer?

Will you use your custom probiotics to give to your DD strait or are you going to make yogurt with it? I am getting ready to order mine, just doing a little more research on the strains.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
caedmyn-another question about coconut kefir. I left a half inch of coconut kefir from my first batch in the jar with the grains and over 3 days it turned into a thick yogurt that was very tart. Think it is ok to eat this stuff? I know you said you let your coconut kefir brew for about 12 hrs, why not longer?

Will you use your custom probiotics to give to your DD strait or are you going to make yogurt with it? I am getting ready to order mine, just doing a little more research on the strains.

If I left my CM kefir out too long it just got very yeasty and sort of exploded everywhere. It did tend to get pretty thick in the fridge. I think it's okay to eat the tart stuff.

I am just going to give DD the probiotics straight for now. I never could get her to eat much yogurt, and right now I am not sure if she has a coconut intolerance or not (she's fine with the oil, though), so until I figure that out the yogurt is definitely out for both of us.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Candida is good for you???
http://hugginsappliedhealing.com/faqs.html

Quote:

20. Is 'Candida' related to my amalgams (silver fillings)?

Strangely enough, Candida is there to save your life. It changes methyl mercury to a less toxic (but still toxic) form. Bacteria change it back to methyl mercury, and the system goes back and forth. If Candida were eliminated while you have amalgam in your mouth, your health will not be as good as if it were there protecting you. Complex, but yes, there is a relationship.
Has anyone heard this? I've been googling and finding some similar stuff.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Candida is good for you???
http://hugginsappliedhealing.com/faqs.html

Has anyone heard this? I've been googling and finding some similar stuff.

I have not heard this, but from everything I've learned over the past year and a half re: amalgams and mercury toxicity it simply cannot be true.

Of course, I'd be interested to see if someone can provide the research to prove me wrong.


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
How long have you been off dairy? I had a persistant postnasal drip and DD was always slightly congested--both of those cleared up when I eliminated dairy.

There are so many symptoms that can indicate yeast--mine were horrible gas, yeast-infection type itchiness (although I never had yeast infections), acne, some mood swings, and a couple of others I can't think of right at the moment. If the mom has yeast it's pretty likely baby does too, IMO. DD's yeast symptoms are eczema, yeast rashes (little bumps in various places), and cradle cap. I don't think all eczema is caused by yeast, though, so your DD's may not be.

Have you tried CLO and evening primrose oil (for you) to help with her eczema? You can give her CLO directly if she'll take it. What probiotics are you giving her? You can do feremented foods or drinks (kombucha, water kefir, non-dairy yogurt) for yourself instead of probiotic powder/capsules--the fermented foods/drinks are much stronger (and much cheaper).


DD's eczema was just in the folds of her arms and legs, then looked like it "crept" on her inner thighs in angry raised red patches. Then all of a sudden she had red bumps all over her stomach like chicken pox. And later also on her back, arms, neck and chin. And it seems to be itching really, really bad. No diaper rash though, hardly ever. Could that be yeast?

I'm getting some CLO and evening primrose oil and am hoping to get water kefir grains and a non-dairy yoghurt starter here from the US in January, so I will start to do that. And I am learning to do fermented veggies. The probiotics is mainly for DD and then for me when we travel. I ordered Solarlay Babylife for her and my SIL is sending me dairy free ones for myself. No idea which brand though.

We have been completely dairy free for five days now. I tried to eliminate stuff earlier, but wasn't very dilligent. Now I completely avoid the top 8 and some other foods that I suspect might be a problem.

Nolansmom, thanks for the book recommendations. I will look into getting a hold of those.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
DD's eczema was just in the folds of her arms and legs, then looked like it "crept" on her inner thighs in angry raised red patches. Then all of a sudden she had red bumps all over her stomach like chicken pox. And later also on her back, arms, neck and chin. And it seems to be itching really, really bad. No diaper rash though, hardly ever. Could that be yeast?


Were they little bitty red bumps?

To some degree it doesn't matter whether she has yeast issues or not--most of the things that help yeast are good for general gut healing, too, and vice versa. You can figure it out as you go.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Candida is good for you???
http://hugginsappliedhealing.com/faqs.html

Has anyone heard this? I've been googling and finding some similar stuff.

I don't know about the accuracy of that particular link, but I have read many time that small amounts of candida albicans in your system are actually beneficial









How is your herbal protocol going, Pattyla? Are you seeing improvement from it for yourself or your DD?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Candida is good for you???
http://hugginsappliedhealing.com/faqs.html

Has anyone heard this? I've been googling and finding some similar stuff.

Forgot to mention that yes, there is *good* yeast that you need, just as there are beneficial bacteria, however, mercury (in *any* form) is toxic.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Forgot to mention that yes, there is *good* yeast that you need, just as there are beneficial bacteria, however, mercury (in *any* form) is toxic.

Ok so he isn't really saying that candida is good for you, just that it is better than the alternative and does you a favor in helping deal with the mercury so killing it off (if you haven't gotten rid of the mercury) may do you more harm than good.


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## amis2girls (Mar 2, 2005)

In the spirit of introductions...

I think my 1yo has reflux. She has constant middle ear fluid/ear pain, back arching, very fussy/clingy, and cannot sleep (on me or in bed). In the past two weeks she has changed into a very different baby.

Where do I start? Probiotics, I think, right? How do you get them in a baby not so fond of a sippy cup? What diet do I need? We're dairy-free but no improvement. I don't want to do Zantac.









Thanks.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I posted this in dental but some of you could help me too.

Quote:

I found a local biological dentist. He came highly recomended by several different people.

www.toothandbodyconnection.com

Anyhow. He insisted that there is no increased danger to my dd from mercury exposure if he removes my fillings (properly) now. He wanted to see any articles that I had read which indicated that there would be. Of course now I'm not finding any. He did agree that chelation isn't possible while nursing but didn't see any reason why removal of the fillings would be dangerous when following the precautions that he follows.

So could anyone please send me in the right direction?

Thanks!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I know this is a bit tangential but I really think my amalgams are tied into my gut health (and dd's)

I got this from Kellymom

Quote:

Amalgam dental fillings

A German study (Drexler 1998) found that during the first week after birth, the amount of mercury in the study mothers' milk was associated with the number of amalgam ("silver") dental fillings; at two months, the amount of mercury in breastmilk was much lower and associated with the mothers' fish consumption (rather than the number of amalgam fillings). These authors concluded that "the additional exposure to mercury of breast-fed babies from maternal amalgam fillings is of minor importance compared to maternal fish consumption." Some studies have found similar correlations between amalgam fillings and mercury levels (Drasch 1998, Oskarsson 1996), but another German study (Klemann 1990) found no correlation between the total surface area of the mother's amalgam dental fillings and mercury in amniotic fluid, maternal blood, newborn blood or breastmilk, and concluded that "maternal amalgam fillings are of no importance for the mercury load of the fetus and the neonate."

.....

Development of children exposed to mercury via breastmilk

In the two long-term studies of children exposed to methylmercury via breastmilk, no adverse effects were documented; in fact, the breastfed children scored better on developmental tests. A study in the Seychelles islands (Grandjean 1995) found that babies who were exposed to methylmercury via their mothers' milk had higher developmental scores than formula fed babies, suggesting that "if methylmercury exposure from human milk had any adverse effect on milestone development in these infants, the effect was compensated for or overruled by advantages associated with nursing." Another study in the Faroe Islands (Jensen 2005) found "marginally better neuropsychological performance" in 7 year olds who had been exposed to methylmercury via breastmilk.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I posted this in dental but some of you could help me too.

Oh Patty, your post raises the hair on the back of my neck. He may be a good dentist who follows proper protocol but there is ALWAYS a danger of mercury removal.

Please don't do it while b'feeding.

Have you looked at the iaomt site (I think that's it. If you can't find it lmk)

I wish you could speak to my dentist. He is a member of the above, follows proper protocol, is holistic etc. and he would NEVER touch mine while I am b'feeding. He won't even let his hygenists clean them.

As far as the amalgams being related to health. Absolutely. Have you read any of Andy Cutler's books? Look at his site too if you haven't already.
noamalgam.com

You've probably seen all this info already but please don't do it.

I'm convinced that dd's problems (immune system dysfunction and encephalopathy) not only had to do w/her vaxes early on, but also from my having fillings removed. Granted, I had them removed by a dentist who didn't know any better (or didn't care.)


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

pattyla, you might check out the following link: http://www.holisticmed.com/dental/amalgam/

pay particular attention to item #11 on that page. it does cite the same fish reference as kellymom. however, after reading the abstract, i think the biggest flaw (especially with just reading the abstract) is that they attribute one's inherent mercury load to come from fish. we live in the midwest, we don't eat local or farmed fish (Indiana actually has a warning NOT to eat local fish because of overloads of both mercury and PCBs. yum) but we live in the midst of coal-fired power plants -- a MAJOR source of mercury contamination. i don't think the authors of the fish/breastmilk/mercury study take those mercury inputs into consideration.

while you could peruse this entire site, the particular reference should be helpful on its own: http://www.amalgam.org/#anchor48942

also this one: http://www.nelm.nhs.uk/Documents/QA7....doc?id=567958

the last one points out that nobody has conducted thorough studies to see the effect of amalgam removal whilst breastfeeding -- i can see that would be hard to get through the human subjects review boards at universities -- it would just be WRONG to conduct such a study.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
We can start our own "I've been trying to heal the gut for months now and my kid is getting worse" club







:

I haven't read most of this thread, so forgive me, but this is one that caught my eye.









I think that it might be allergic reactions. DS is definately allergic to eggs and possibly all nuts. He is doing so much better with those totally out of his diet. Not even in Rotation right now. When he ate them every 4 days, he reacted very strongly. Which is weird since he used to have them almost every day on SCD without such a clear reaction (just long term I guess).

I think with babe's immune systems not being developed yet, a damaged gut just automatically means food allergies at such a young age. An adult's immune system might already have learned response not to react to foods, but not a child's.

We are still feeling it out, our Rotation diet is not perfect, but it seems to be helping. Nutritionist said take 'em out and try again in 3 months.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Patty,

IMHO it won't be worth the "what if". There's just not enough knowledge. I think there is only one small study that says the release during proper IAOMT protocol is negligable and in fact goes down. That is the one my dentist referred to

Quote:

V d) Amalgam Removal with Patient Protection

This study measures the mercury level when amalgams are removed following the IAOMT protocols presented above.

Molin, M., Berglund, J.R., Mackert, J.R., "Kinetics of Mercury in Blood and Urine after Amalgam Removal." J. Dental Research, 74:420,IADR abstract 159, (1995).

ABSTRACT: Even through a number of studies have not been able to reveal any correlation between subjective symptoms and amalgam load there still are speculations whether patients with subjective symptoms related by the patients themselves to their amalgam fillings could have a changed pattern of elimination of mercury. The aim of the present investigation was to study the elimination half-time of mercury in plasma, erythrocytes and urine over an extended period of time after amalgam removal in a group of 10 patients with subjective symptoms by the patients themselves referred to their amalgam fillings and a group of 8 healthy subjects. The average number of occlusal and total amalgam surfaces in the patient group were 13.0 (range 4-20) and 44.4 (range 24-68), respectively. Corresponding figures in the control group were 12.9 (range 10-16) and 40.9 (range 24-63).

The amalgam removal using rubber dam, water spray cutting and high volume vacuum evacuator, was carried out at one and the same time. Blood and urine samples were collected at two occasions before the amalgam removal, then blood was collected at thirty two occasions and urine at forty three occasions during the following year. The mercury content was analyzed by CVAAS technique.

The measured P-, Ery- and U-Hg concentrations before amalgam removal were slightly higher in the control group 6.43.3 nmol/L, 19.46.6 nmol/L, and 2.71.3 nmol/nmol creatinine respectively than in the symptom group 5.61.8 nmol/L, 14.88.8 nmol/L, and 1.60.9 nmol/nmol creatinine respectively.

The Hg-concentrations did not significantly increase in the two groups after amalgam removal. Six days after the removal the plasma mean concentration was significantly decreased at P level and ten days after the decrease was at a permanent P level. The mean Ery-Hg level was significantly decreased after eleven days (p), a level that remained stable for the rest of the year. The mean U-Hg level was significantly decreased one month after the removal and after six months the mean level was reduced with 80 % compared to the initial level in both groups.

The conclusion to be drawn for the present study is that the symptom group did not have a changed pattern of elimination of mercury compared to the healthy group.
According to Cutler's information you would need to wean in 3 mos. anyhow b/c that is when your blood levels will go up due to your organs starting to dump their accumulated load. However, I have also seen studies which say it just goes down. I haven't seen one that shows a bump and I forget where Cutler gets this from. (Lot of help I'm being!) He did say that not eating sulfur foods are very helpful for Hg/Candida type people.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
GaleForce did the candida diet I'm doing and added yogurt and kefir in after a few months. I think she said she didn't really do any supplementing with her diet.

I did the candida diet and did not cheat even one little tiny bit for about six months. I lost a lot of weight and was looking very good. I've since gained it back and cannot go on a strict diet to save my life.







:

After about a month into the diet I added homemade yogurt. I also added beans about 2x/week when I wanted to reduce my weight loss. After about nine months I added kefir and noticed a very big difference with that. I think both the yogurt and kefir helped.

The diet was no grain, no dairy (except for the yogurt and kefir I added), no high starch vegetables, no vinegar, no high mold foods (like mushrooms). There were surely other restrictions I've forgotten. It was a miserable diet and I was able to do it so strictly because I thought I would have to wean my son if I didn't and I had OCD-like behavior which compelled me to be very strict. I took antifungals on occasion but reacted to them and so generally did not include them. It was pretty much all diet. My health has continued to improve even though I've allowed some grains back in.

My diet for the last two weeks is apparently a coffee-based diet, so I may be working on my gut again before we know it.







:

Amanda


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beachbuminthecity* 
Hi Caedmyn,

I don't know if I asked you what your regimen is and what you take in detail if possible. With me I first need to go strick with foods. Do you think if I PM/email JaneS and Galeforce they would post what they did. I like to try other peoples choices/remedies that I may have not even thought about.

I will say that the most helpful things to me were SCD, enzymes (with and between meals), CLO, bone broths and raw milk yogurt and kefir. I did a short protocol of oil of oregano too right when I weaned DS (a good brand, I think Gaia) that was helpful. I didn't do SCD for a full year. I found that enzymes finished the job for me as there was such a clear improvement in a short time. Once I got used to high proteases without freaking myself out that is, they made me hyper at first but really worth it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Amanda and my ears were burning at same time!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Oh and I suffered a setback a couple months ago due to stress over DS and probably too many grains ... and drinking kefir and eating the kefir grains everyday fixed me up really fast.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Nolansmum/anyone with kids with eczema--how quickly does eczema appear/worsen after you or your DC ingest an allergen? DD's arms are COVERED with eczema tonight, and she has never had visible eczema on her arms before--little patches I could feel yes, but nothing visible. And these patches weren't there this morning!

Could it be the almond butter she reacted to 3 days ago? Or I made some homemade coconut milk chocolate pudding this morning--could she have reacted with eczema that quickly? Also, my mom came to visit from out of state this afternoon--is it possible that DD reacted to the detergent on my mom's clothes? My mom doesn't wear any perfumes or use fabric softeners on her clothes.

I feel like DD is turning into one of those kids who is allergic to absolutely everything. I feel like she needs to be kept in a bubble right now or something--I mean, she was chewing on the shopping cart today at the store, who knows what food residues could have been on that. She's not even a year old--I can't keep her from touching/chewing on things!

Sorry, I should read in the right order instead of backwards...

I have seen anything from immediate to one hour to next day reactions. Coconut was one of DS's worst, his skin broke out from it so I actually removed long before testing. I was always thinking die off from coconut too, but his is definitely an allergy... it produced a HUGE wheal in testing, and then 3 days later the spot inflamed again and got itchy, really weird. Second only to the enormous quarter sized bump that peanut produced.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I'm inclined to get my fillings out. Not necessarily because I think it will help dd (I don't) but I think it probably won't hurt her and it will help me and any future children I may be lucky enough to conceive.

My mouth tastes like metal 24/7. I have plenty of other symptoms of mercury although not the most severe ones to be sure. My candida that won't go away is a biggie though.

I'm sick of this stupid diet that isn't getting me anywhere and costs an arm and a leg to maintain as well as all our friendships, and is taking a toll on my marriage as well. We have been just straight out since dd was born. The diet has improved dd's behavior a ton but my time spent managing her has just been replace with time spent researching, shopping and cooking. I still don't have any time to just be me.

I'm 35 and my dd isn't even remotely ready to wean. She now nurses every 3-4 hours durring the day and every 2-3 hours overnight. I think she'll nurse untill she is 5 or even older most likely. I can't take this away from her. Nursing is so important to her. I can't wait untill I'm 40 to have baby #2 and I can't continue ttc in good concience with this mercury in my body, esp if my fillings are breaking down (which I fear is why I now taste metal all the time). If we decided to adopt instead I will would really want to nurse my adopted baby and don't want to nurse with tainted bm.

DD doesn't get a lot of milk from me. When I had to temporarilly wean her a couple of weeks ago for a test I only pumped 3 oz or so of milk in the 24 hours that I needed to pump. I didn't pump as much as she wanted to nurse but I never had a huge ammount of milk to pump, even when I felt full.

No decisions have been made at this point and I do welcome anyone who can talk me out of this.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

It's really hard I know. It sucks that it feels like "Sophie's Choice".

I had a hard time thinking about weaning DS too but it was so much easier than I thought it was going to be. I remember our last session. I was crying and told him the whole story of his birth and his life so far. How I will always be there for him, love him and do my very best for him. And how we had to stop bf'ing, I didn't want to, but right now I thought it was best for us. I swear he listened to me and accepted it (he was 2) he didn't ask when I didn't offer. He just held me and cuddled from then on, it was pretty surprising. Of course your babe might be different. And I had spent several months not offering, distracting and cutting out feedings with DH taking over bedtime stuff. So I had cut out all daytime feeds and when I weaned I just didn't do bedtime or nightwakings for a long while.

Now I wonder if taking away bm was the deciding factor in DS getting worse or giving him coconut milk which I know now he is hugely allergic to?? I just don't know. And really you might have to live with not knowing the real reasons either and being at peace with whatever decision to make. Once you are at that point of peace, you will know it is the right decision no matter what the outcome ends up being. You can say, I really did the best I could and listened to my heart.

Just don't back yourself into a corner, you can't possibly do everything. A healthy and happy mama, and a healthy future sibling, might mean more to your DD's long life than continuing to nurse right now.

For me the whole issue became so overwhelming... from my reading, my dental history, DS's hair test, that I simply had to do something about it and get my fillings out. I do regret it for the fact that I had to do it. But I don't regret doing it. Maybe it helped me heal, maybe not. Maybe it made DS worse, maybe not. But whatever the outcome, I can say I did the best I could at the time.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

More late night maudlin thoughts on weaning: it is, for me, a way to examine my personality regarding relationships too. Weaning was hard for me when seen in that way and still is when I think about it. It is such a deeply personal act. Very enlightening when able to be examined. Thinking this way deepened my commitment to DS, because I had to be present and nurturing for him in a different way. Not that I did anything that different or wasn't present before, it just made me more aware of my responsibility. And frankly, remembering to be more patient, loving and grateful with a child going through such difficult times since birth! (ie sleep issues)


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

When I discuss weaning with dd I might as well be speaking chineese. It is that foreign an idea to her. We have tried to night wean a couple of times. It has been a huge failure that left dd distraught and it took a looooonnnnnggg time for her to get over it (after we abandoned the effort). The fact that she nurses so little durring the day is a result of my working very hard to not be available to nurse. It is harder at night when you co-sleep.









If I were to wean dd now and then never got pg and ended up adopting a baby who either never could figure out how to nurse or an older child I would totally regret it. So much has gone wrong in DD's life, this is one thing that I want to get right. I want to let her self wean.

I'm just not convinced that the mercury in bm is that bio-available and even less convinced that dd takes in enough of my bm for it to be significant enough to wean her over it. If she was a n/b that would be a different story.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
So much has gone wrong in DD's life, this is one thing that I want to get right.

OH mama, I hear you.

Why do you think the Hg is not bioavailable? Have you done a hair test on her? Maybe that would help you decide either way. I think it is less of an issue to wean now over Hg load, but more importantly to decide whether to continue while getting the fillings out and afterwards.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
No decisions have been made at this point and I do welcome anyone who can talk me out of this.

I hear ya on the reasons you want to get the amalgams out. Do you *really* want someone to talk you out of it?

It does suck that you feel damned if you do, damned if you don't. Maybe your amalgams (and mine) are leeching out too many toxins right now. Maybe the removal of them (even while b'feeding) would *not* be so hazardous. It's such a hard decision and there is NO RESEARCH on this topic.

My dd had my *really* tainted milk (after haphadard removal) while she was almost a n/b so it's hard to compare your dd w/mine.

I often wonder if dd2 would be better off w/out my milk.







: Who knows.

It's almost impossible to know.

Just thinking out loud here - - Maybe you don't have to have them removed right away. Maybe you can give yourself x amount of time to nurse dd, then get the fillings out, then chelate and then ttc.

Have you read any of this thread?
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=471795


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force* 
I did the candida diet and did not cheat even one little tiny bit for about six months. I lost a lot of weight and was looking very good. I've since gained it back and cannot go on a strict diet to save my life.







:

After about a month into the diet I added homemade yogurt. I also added beans about 2x/week when I wanted to reduce my weight loss. After about nine months I added kefir and noticed a very big difference with that. I think both the yogurt and kefir helped.

The diet was no grain, no dairy (except for the yogurt and kefir I added), no high starch vegetables, no vinegar, no high mold foods (like mushrooms). There were surely other restrictions I've forgotten. It was a miserable diet and I was able to do it so strictly because I thought I would have to wean my son if I didn't and I had OCD-like behavior which compelled me to be very strict. I took antifungals on occasion but reacted to them and so generally did not include them. It was pretty much all diet. My health has continued to improve even though I've allowed some grains back in.

My diet for the last two weeks is apparently a coffee-based diet, so I may be working on my gut again before we know it.







:

Amanda


Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
I will say that the most helpful things to me were SCD, enzymes (with and between meals), CLO, bone broths and raw milk yogurt and kefir. I did a short protocol of oil of oregano too right when I weaned DS (a good brand, I think Gaia) that was helpful. I didn't do SCD for a full year. I found that enzymes finished the job for me as there was such a clear improvement in a short time. Once I got used to high proteases without freaking myself out that is, they made me hyper at first but really worth it.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
Oh and I suffered a setback a couple months ago due to stress over DS and probably too many grains ... and drinking kefir and eating the kefir grains everyday fixed me up really fast.

Thank you all for answering my questions. For what you all have been doing I believe I am on the right track I pretty much do what you all do, but I need to buckle down on myself. Also I think the kefir is going to make a big difference. I just had my first homemade batch last night and thorough out the night (while sleeping) I had weird sensations (I think good) my rash isn't worse, but a little itchy, I think it is repairing the skin. What kind of symptoms did you all have. Did you use fruit in your kefir, because that is the only way I can take kefir. Is it ok to have sourdough bread (I want to make it with kefir and no store yeast), if it is ok and you all made your bread this way can you post the receip please.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 
OH mama, I hear you.

Why do you think the Hg is not bioavailable? Have you done a hair test on her? Maybe that would help you decide either way. I think it is less of an issue to wean now over Hg load, but more importantly to decide whether to continue while getting the fillings out and afterwards.

The fact that inorganic mercury is minimally bioavailable.

The fact that studies of breast feeding children who were born to mothers with fillings has shown that their blood mercury levels drop over that first year of life (while they are nursing).

The fact that fillings are mostly inorganic mercury. The main reason it gets into my blood is because my fillings get scratches and it vaporizes the mercury and I get it as inhalation mercury. If it was just going down my throat it wouldn't increase my blood mercury nearly as much.

I'm considering the hair test on both of us, but I thought I heard it wasn't good for nursing moms and babes?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Anyone know why my iron is dropping now that I am eating more iron rich foods than I ever have as an adult? I'm not taking supplimental iron but I haven't ever been very good about that anyhow. My tsh is also going up, but not enough for my Dr to think it needs tinkering with.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Anyone know why my iron is dropping now that I am eating more iron rich foods than I ever have as an adult? I'm not taking supplimental iron but I haven't ever been very good about that anyhow. My tsh is also going up, but not enough for my Dr to think it needs tinkering with.

low copper?

try homeopathic Cuprum metallicum as a first test.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Patty,

What foods are you eating? What are you eating now that you consider iron rich that you were not eating before? Are you on the SCD? Do you drink a lot of milk?

Amanda


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

*mercury fillings*

My dad had his fillings removed and his health insurance paid for the removal. As one of the diagnostic tests they measured the amount of mercury coming off of the fillings, somehow. Have any of you had a test like that?

I have quite a number of fillings and hope to get them removed someday. Neither they nor my uranium and arsenic issues have kept me from improving my gut. But I may be a lucky aberration. And I may still need to pay the piper. We'll see.

Amanda


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Anyone know why my iron is dropping now that I am eating more iron rich foods than I ever have as an adult? I'm not taking supplimental iron but I haven't ever been very good about that anyhow. My tsh is also going up, but not enough for my Dr to think it needs tinkering with.

And how do you know that your iron is low?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force* 
Patty,

What foods are you eating? What are you eating now that you consider iron rich that you were not eating before? Are you on the SCD? Do you drink a lot of milk?

Amanda

I'm doing scd. No dairy. I added red meat into my diet probably 6-8 months ago. At that point my iron was 28. I got blood work from my Dr today saying that it is now 20. I used to see a different Dr in the practice and she was concerned about my level being 28. She has left the practice and the Dr I am now seeing isn't concerned (but possibly didn't realize that this was a drop for me). I try to get liver. I probably get it about 1x a month but that is way better than I used to. I also eat red meat 2-4x a week if not more and I wasn't eating any before earlier this year.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force* 
*mercury fillings*

My dad had his fillings removed and his health insurance paid for the removal. As one of the diagnostic tests they measured the amount of mercury coming off of the fillings, somehow. Have any of you had a test like that?

I have quite a number of fillings and hope to get them removed someday. Neither they nor my uranium and arsenic issues have kept me from improving my gut. But I may be a lucky aberration. And I may still need to pay the piper. We'll see.

Amanda

They checked one tooth for mercury coming off it. Nothing at first but then scratched it gave off a very small ammount. They only checked one tooth/filling.

One of my big fears is that if I do get pg again a new baby will help me chelate out the mercury in my body right into his/hers. It just makes sense to me that my body is all out of balance because of the mercury in it and that the mercury messed up my gut flora and the combo of my lousy flora and dd's abx at birth set her up for her own situation. I'm not sure if she is mercury toxic or not and not really clear on how to figure that out. She doesn't show any neuro signs (thankfully!) other than her hyperactivity when she eats something that she shouldn't. She is quite brilliant (if I do say so myself).

I have worked so hard at getting my body back into balance and really don't feel like I have gotten anywhere. Sure I can stick to the straight and narrow and have no symptoms but if I deviate, even a little, the symptoms are so much worse than they used to be. And I feel like my hands are tied wrt probiotics becasue dairy bothers dd so much and yet I belelive that the best form of probiotics are usually those grown in dairy.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I'm considering the hair test on both of us, but I thought I heard it wasn't good for nursing moms and babes?

I asked Andy Cutler this myself and his answer was that the test would be reliable for the nursing child, but not for the lactating mom.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
One of my big fears is that if I do get pg again a new baby will help me chelate out the mercury in my body right into his/hers. It just makes sense to me that my body is all out of balance because of the mercury in it and that the mercury messed up my gut flora and the combo of my lousy flora and dd's abx at birth set her up for her own situation. I'm not sure if she is mercury toxic or not and not really clear on how to figure that out. She doesn't show any neuro signs (thankfully!) other than her hyperactivity when she eats something that she shouldn't. She is quite brilliant (if I do say so myself).

Actually Patty, many kids that are mercury toxic are *quite brilliant*. My dd has encephalopathy but she is still way ahead of the curve. She just has serious sleep issues and, of course, gut issues. Oh, and immune system issues too.

If someone were to see her, they would not notice anything wrong at all.

At the risk of sounding a little defensive here, I don't think you're really open to hearing about the dangers and that's fine. We all have to choose our own path. I was just hoping that our experience could help you decide.

That's all I'm going to say on the subject.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Actually Patty, many kids that are mercury toxic are *quite brilliant*. My dd has encephalopathy but she is still way ahead of the curve. She just has serious sleep issues and, of course, gut issues. Oh, and immune system issues too.

If someone were to see her, they would not notice anything wrong at all.

At the risk of sounding a little defensive here, I don't think you're really open to hearing about the dangers and that's fine. We all have to choose our own path. I was just hoping that our experience could help you decide.

That's all I'm going to say on the subject.

I'm very open to hearing the dangers. I may argue with you but that doesn't mean I'm not listening.







:

I don't want to do anything to hurt my dd further. I know that each of us needs to make our own best decision but I do value what each of you has to say on this subject. I want the complete truth as best as it can be found. I feel like I am constantly walking this tight rope afraid to fall off.

I wish that I had a medical professional who had enough skill to really help me with dd. I haven't met that person yet. I'm leaning toward going to that DAN Dr again but the money is really holding me back. Plus apparently she relies heavily on NAET and we are getting that done already.

Sigh. I'm not sure how much I'll be on here the next week. DH is going out of town tomorrow and won't be back till Friday night. Last week dd only napped one day.







: We'll see.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Annikate- I want to appologize if you felt like what I was saying pertained to you or your dd. I was thinking of severely autistic children when I mentioned mercury toxic and dd's intellegence. When I talk to people on another site I'm on about what we are dealing I get "is she autistic? She doesn't seem autistic." stuff. (some have met her in person). I don't know if her issues are mercury or not and no one seems to be able to tell me. Perhaps I'm not asking the right people but I'm stumped as to whom they might be.

I'm just frustrated and depressed and when I'm in that state I tend to express myself in such a way that I manage to hurt and offend those arround me (not intentionally, it just seems to happen). I'm sorry.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
DD's eczema was just in the folds of her arms and legs, then looked like it "crept" on her inner thighs in angry raised red patches. Then all of a sudden she had red bumps all over her stomach like chicken pox. And later also on her back, arms, neck and chin. And it seems to be itching really, really bad. No diaper rash though, hardly ever. Could that be yeast?
.

Yes! That's exactly how my dd's eczema and then, yeast presented. It's very frustrating. Through figuring out and elminating her allergens, we managed to control the eczema, but the yeast still crops up constantly, and of course, that's where gut healing comes in.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS* 

I think that it might be allergic reactions. . .

I think with babe's immune systems not being developed yet, a damaged gut just automatically means food allergies at such a young age. An adult's immune system might already have learned response not to react to foods, but not a child's.

We are still feeling it out, our Rotation diet is not perfect, but it seems to be helping. Nutritionist said take 'em out and try again in 3 months.

I agree with this, about the development of allergies in babies. Though, I'm not comfortable reintroducing foods until after the child is 3 or 4 years old. The friends I've had and experiences I've read of children who've outgrown food allergies have done so after a LONG time of avoiding the offending food. I don't think it's just a matter of giving the gut time to heal, but also allowing the immune response to normalize.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Annikate- I want to appologize if you felt like what I was saying pertained to you or your dd. I was thinking of severely autistic children when I mentioned mercury toxic and dd's intellegence. When I talk to people on another site I'm on about what we are dealing I get "is she autistic? She doesn't seem autistic." stuff. (some have met her in person). I don't know if her issues are mercury or not and no one seems to be able to tell me. Perhaps I'm not asking the right people but I'm stumped as to whom they might be.

I'm just frustrated and depressed and when I'm in that state I tend to express myself in such a way that I manage to hurt and offend those arround me (not intentionally, it just seems to happen). I'm sorry.

That's okay Patty. Don't worry about it. I shouldn't have taken it personally. Autism Spectrum Disorders run the gammut though from mild ADD or ADHD to Asperger's so even kids w/a *diagnosis* may not seem to be *autistic* when you look at them. (Just for the information of those who don't know.)

Funny thing, I knew dd was mercury toxic but her recent tests have revealed that her lead levels are much higher (as is her thallium and others.)

I have no idea how she became so full of these other toxins.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
That's okay Patty. Don't worry about it. I shouldn't have taken it personally. Autism Spectrum Disorders run the gammut though from mild ADD or ADHD to Asperger's so even kids w/a *diagnosis* may not seem to be *autistic* when you look at them. (Just for the information of those who don't know.)

Funny thing, I knew dd was mercury toxic but her recent tests have revealed that her lead levels are much higher (as is her thallium and others.)

I have no idea how she became so full of these other toxins.









Lucky dd I certainly have ADD and her father probably does as well. (he grew up on a farm and although he doesn't have any fillings he did work with seeds at planting time every year which have a fungacide on them and that usually means mercury. I'm having trouble convincing him that this may be his issue).

I was reading somewhere (I've read a ton over the past few days) that people with mercury issues tend to also accumilate other toxins as well. The mercury disables the detox systems in the body and so all toxins tend to build up.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I was reading somewhere (I've read a ton over the past few days) that people with mercury issues tend to also accumilate other toxins as well. The mercury disables the detox systems in the body and so all toxins tend to build up.










Yup, that's the problem. One little bit of mercury can cause all of this . . .


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Yes! That's exactly how my dd's eczema and then, yeast presented. It's very frustrating. Through figuring out and elminating her allergens, we managed to control the eczema, but the yeast still crops up constantly, and of course, that's where gut healing comes in.









I was really starting to think it is yeast as well from reading Caedmyn's posts. DD is only 7 mos now and for the past week has been back to ebf. I think I read somewhere something (







: ) about ebf for 4-6 weeks to restore gut flora. Or at least help it. Is this true? A friend brought probiotics for her from the US that I will get today and I will add that. I will get CLO in the mail in the next two weeks I think. Should I give her 4 wks of ebf before I add that?

I have been on an elimination diet for a week now, still no results. How long did it take for your dd, Chinese Pistache?
I don't think I have major yeast issues. Leaky gut probably, but not yeast. Should I follow a candida diet for dd's yeast? Ugh, it is all so overwhelming.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 







I was really starting to think it is yeast as well from reading Caedmyn's posts. DD is only 7 mos now and for the past week has been back to ebf. I think I read somewhere something (







: ) about ebf for 4-6 weeks to restore gut flora. Or at least help it. Is this true? A friend brought probiotics for her from the US that I will get today and I will add that. I will get CLO in the mail in the next two weeks I think. Should I give her 4 wks of ebf before I add that?

I have been on an elimination diet for a week now, still no results. How long did it take for your dd, Chinese Pistache?
I don't think I have major yeast issues. Leaky gut probably, but not yeast. Should I follow a candida diet for dd's yeast? Ugh, it is all so overwhelming.

I don't know that bfing *only* will restore gut flora. Babies inherit gut flora from their mothers, particularly as they pass through the birth canal. We had antibiotics in labor which effectively ruined that natural process







: (that smiley is such an understatement) Getting good probiotics into the baby is important, but you have to get ones that are specific to infants (like bifidus). Also, a few of us are using Threelac, which is a probiotic that supposedly gets rid of yeast. Dd and I haven't been consistent with it because dd won't always take it. In short, I wouldn't wait to give CLO and probiotics.

We eliminated dairy and dd's eczema improved, but didn't go away entirely. Then, I tried other eliminations of wheat and soy, but nothing seemed to be the magic bullet. I tried SCD, but her yeast seemed to get worse and I worried about eating all those nuts. I finally took her to an allergist (months later) and found that she had a corn allergy (corn is extremely pervasive, so it's no wonder I couldn't identify it). Honestly, I wish I'd gone sooner, because there's a good chance she can outgrow this if we can keep her completely corn and dairy free for the next few years (she's 16 mths now). Oh, and once we eliminated corn, her runny nose was gone in 5 days and her eczema was almost completely clear in a week (though, I think we have a few more sensitivities because it has flared a few times with certain fruits).

I don't think I have major yeast issues either. Leaky gut, yes. After years of antibiotics (as a child and teen), I think the antibiotics I got in labor put me and my dd over the edge. Now that we've been corn-free, I'm seeing the improvement of a few minor health problems of my *own* so I think I had a mild corn allergy that I'd developed (probably fairy recently, like within the past few years) that I didn't notice before.

Anyway, sorry for yammering. The ladies here are very knowledgeable; I wish I had a tenth of their knowledge. Now that I know what allergens we're dealing with, I feel like I can get serious about healing dd's and my gut. Good luck to you. And stick around


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Bleuts-can you help me find this reference?

Cant A, Narsden RA, Kilshaw PJ. Egg and cow's milk hypersensitivity in exclusively breastfed infants with eczema and detection of egg protein in breast milk. Br Med J. 1985;291:932-935

TIA


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Hi Mamas,

I haven't been here for awhile on this thread, but Chinese Pistache pointed me this way when I asked about the blood titre allergy test (not the RAST-- the other one that naturopaths use). To make a very LONG story short, this is for my daughter Nitara. She had a feeding tube placed at 3 mos old after GERD and lack of appetite caused her to be FTT. She has spent most of her life on the feeding tube, vomiting, in a lot of discomfort, nausea, etc. Because of the tube she is a big girl, and she is showing a lot of courage about weaning off of it.

We got a new GI for her last month, one who has a better rep than her old one. Within 2 weeks of seeing her Nitara had a biopsy and endscopy to check on her GERD and other issues. She was dx with E.E.. A couple of mos previous she had a skin test that showed some food allergies, but the GI said that E.E. cells were not the same as ones that would react on a skin test. The only way to know what is causing the EE is to
(a) put her on an elemental formula via gtube for 3 mos until it clears up, then introduce foods one at a time.

(b) start to eliminate foods and see if E.E. gets better.

Obviously, b is a better choice.

The way to know if the E.E. is better or worse is through biopsy. Obviously not ideal. Her GI said to start with dairy elimination, in addition to the 6 things she tested + for on the skin test. If it's not the dairy, next to take out is soy, and so on.

In addition to the GERD and GI issues, she has raspy breathing, nodules on her vocal cords, lack of a true appetite, and occasional skin rashes. She has a history of double ear infections and has ear tubes. She also has tested negative for Celiacs (twice) by biopsy. The EE points strictly to food allergies.

I really want to know more about this allergy blood test. Why won't my allergist recommend it? Why doesn't the GI know about it? It seems like many people have had great success with it, so why is it not being used by medical doctors?

We can save money to get this test for our daughter but I want to make sure it's truly accurate and will be worth the money. We are currently paying off medical-related debt and not in a hurry to spend more unless it's worth it.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Bleuts-can you help me find this reference?

Cant A, Narsden RA, Kilshaw PJ. Egg and cow's milk hypersensitivity in exclusively breastfed infants with eczema and detection of egg protein in breast milk. Br Med J. 1985;291:932-935

TIA

you're lucky! it's free!

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1417254

but while hunting it down, i found this article (well, the abstract anyway) that made we want to slap silly the authors.
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/lin...1.00908.x/abs/

the annoying part:

"Recent clinical studies indicate that the potential of breastfeeding to counteract allergic disease may be promoted by dietary means. While uncoordinated elimination diets result in a risk of general nutritional inadequacy or deficiency of essential single nutrients, a balanced diet following current dietary recommendations, specifically containing fresh fruits and vegetables (antioxidants) and fat of predominantly vegetable origin, may be associated with a lower incidence of atopy in the infant."

maybe it's time to wander through this pile of literature -- just to see how annoyed i get.


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## MeMommy (Aug 31, 2006)

Hi all,

Man, I have a lot of reading to catch up on......

I've been worrying about something lately. Someone mentioned here that the toxins from die-off could get into the bm. That makes me really worried. Should I be concerned about that? How should I manage my concern and my desire to get rid of my yeast, fast?

Also, are enzymes safe to take while nursing?

TIA!!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MeMommy* 
Hi all,

Man, I have a lot of reading to catch up on......

I've been worrying about something lately. Someone mentioned here that the toxins from die-off could get into the bm. That makes me really worried. Should I be concerned about that? How should I manage my concern and my desire to get rid of my yeast, fast?

Also, are enzymes safe to take while nursing?

TIA!!

okie.... the whole mercury-detox-breastmilk thing has been floating in my head, so i did a little searching. not much to find, surprise surprise.

for those interested specifically in mercury and detox reactions (with little connection to breast milk), here are some links:

http://home.datacomm.ch/rezamusic/am...liography.html
http://www.neuraltherapy.com/heavyMetalDetox.doc

mercury (methyl- and inorganic) transfer to fetus and breastfed infant:
http://www.ehponline.org/members/2005/7856/7856.html

lead and mercury in breastmilk:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...83144763b7435f
(please let me know if you can't read this but you want to do so...)

good search phrases for pubmed:
transfer of inorganic mercury to breast milk
transfer of organic solvents to breast milk
transfer of heavy metals to breast milk

i'm not sure what substances would be dumped into breast milk (besides organic solvents, heavy metals) during the detox process when one undertakes the candida diet or the SCD or any other diet with any amount of cleansing.

others around here reportedly use chlorella or some "greens" mixture to help offset the detox process - is this really effective? our ND recommends chlorella AND activated charcoal during cleansing, but he wouldn't recommend a heavy duty cleansing whilst breastfeeding (and anything beyond changing one's diet would be considered cleansing in his opinion).

i guess i would look for a negative change in behavior in the breastfeeding child as a sign of toxins being dumped into breast milk. remember also that diet changes that are accompanied by rapid weight loss can also mobilize toxins that may have been stored in those good ol' fat cells, along with any mixture of hormones that may be lingering in those cells as well. it would seem, then, that gut healing changes should be made slowly to avoid stirring up too much junk in too short a time.

anyone else have any thoughts?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, is the prick test the one you used to determine your ds's allergies? I know there are lots of different kinds of allergy tests, including ELISA and RAST, and they all have their supporters.

MeMommy, I think enzymes are generally considered safe while breastfeeding, but everyone experiences it differently.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I wanted to say one more thing in my "talk me out of it" comment.

I don't exactly like the idea of painful, extremely expensive dental work. I also don't like living with the unknown of if it will help me or dd (or any future children). I'm searching and searching for answers. If you have better info than I have found already bring it on! I currently feel like my best chance is consulting a magic 8 ball to figure this all out.


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I currently feel like my best chance is consulting a magic 8 ball to figure this all out.

Do you have one?!!!!









I am having one of those defeated days. I know Ive brought this up before, and Im sorry to do it again, but sometimes (ok, a lot of times) I feel like Ive entered this paralell universe and can see the other/former one from here but cannot for the life of me figure out how to get back there. My family and friends are there, the things I used to do/enjoy are there, and Im over here watching them all and missing them.

Some days I feel like this is all a process that WILL have an end. Ive *heard of* people getting over it. Funny enough, the therapist I started seeing this Fall (who I love), when I vented my candida stress to her, explained that she does believe in it as she did the diet for a year, years ago, and has eaten normally since (and went on to say that my *relationship* with candida is whats screwed







). But then I think of how long many of you have been at it, and *only* to get to a point, as someone mentioned the other day, of being symptom free, but not being able to eat old foods without trouble. Or other boards where it seems people never recover, or do and keep relapsing. Or the idea that once you've messed up your gut, you cant ever really get it back.

I imagine, maybe, you all have been down this ugly road mentally, and choose not to go there (well done!). I dont even know what I want to hear, I guess I just need to unload. Sorry


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Chlorella-I remember reading a post by JaneS that said this is not safe during breastfeeding. I'll see if I can find it later.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *USAmma* 
Hi Mamas,

I haven't been here for awhile on this thread, but Chinese Pistache pointed me this way when I asked about the blood titre allergy test (not the RAST-- the other one that naturopaths use). To make a very LONG story short, this is for my daughter Nitara. She had a feeding tube placed at 3 mos old after GERD and lack of appetite caused her to be FTT. She has spent most of her life on the feeding tube, vomiting, in a lot of discomfort, nausea, etc. Because of the tube she is a big girl, and she is showing a lot of courage about weaning off of it.

We got a new GI for her last month, one who has a better rep than her old one. Within 2 weeks of seeing her Nitara had a biopsy and endscopy to check on her GERD and other issues. She was dx with E.E.. A couple of mos previous she had a skin test that showed some food allergies, but the GI said that E.E. cells were not the same as ones that would react on a skin test. The only way to know what is causing the EE is to
(a) put her on an elemental formula via gtube for 3 mos until it clears up, then introduce foods one at a time.

(b) start to eliminate foods and see if E.E. gets better.

Obviously, b is a better choice.

The way to know if the E.E. is better or worse is through biopsy. Obviously not ideal. Her GI said to start with dairy elimination, in addition to the 6 things she tested + for on the skin test. If it's not the dairy, next to take out is soy, and so on.

In addition to the GERD and GI issues, she has raspy breathing, nodules on her vocal cords, lack of a true appetite, and occasional skin rashes. She has a history of double ear infections and has ear tubes. She also has tested negative for Celiacs (twice) by biopsy. The EE points strictly to food allergies.

I really want to know more about this allergy blood test. Why won't my allergist recommend it? Why doesn't the GI know about it? It seems like many people have had great success with it, so why is it not being used by medical doctors?

We can save money to get this test for our daughter but I want to make sure it's truly accurate and will be worth the money. We are currently paying off medical-related debt and not in a hurry to spend more unless it's worth it.

Hi mama! I remember all of your help and support when I was just learning that dd had GERD and related issues.

I'm sorry I don't have enough knowledge about that particular blood test to offer advice but wanted to give you a







(We had the RAST test done for dd.)


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Chlorella-I remember reading a post by JaneS that said this is not safe during breastfeeding. I'll see if I can find it later.

that's interesting, though this article suggests that chlorella is useful during breastfeeding:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

Dioxins can be transferred from mother to fetus via the placenta, or to nursing infants via breast milk, potentially causing developmental health problems in children. To assess pediatric health risks from dioxins, exposure of mothers and children to dioxins must be clarified. Methods of reducing maternal transfer of dioxins should also be investigated. Concentrations of 28 dioxin (polychlorinated dibenzo-p-dioxins, polychlorinated dibenzofurans, and co-planar polychlorinated biphenyls) congeners in blood, adipose tissue, breast milk, cord blood and placenta collected from 44 pregnant Japanese women were measured. In addition, to investigate potential reductions in maternal transfer of dioxins, 23 pregnant women were instructed to take Chlorella pyrenoidosa supplements during pregnancy. Correlations were observed between dioxin total toxic equivalents (total TEQ) in blood and total TEQ in adipose tissue (r=0.913, P<0.0001), breast milk (r=0.695, P=0.0007), and cord blood (r=0.759, P<0.0001). Dioxin levels transferred to fetuses and nursing infants reflect cumulative maternal concentrations of dioxins. A linear regression equation was introduced to predict total TEQ in breast milk and cord blood from dioxin levels in maternal blood, which should prove useful in evaluating fetal and infant risk of dioxin exposure. Total TEQ in cord blood were approximately 26% lower than in maternal blood (P<0.0001). The results of this study suggest that transplacental transfer differs depending on the dioxin congener. *Total TEQ in breast milk were approximately 30% lower in the Chlorella group than in controls (P=0.0113). This finding suggests that maternal transfer of dioxins can be reduced using dietary measures such as Chlorella supplements.*


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## beachbuminthecity (Nov 27, 2006)

Sorry to change the topic but I have one question for the ones on a candida diet. Is homemade sourdough bread ok to have since it soaked (fermented) overnight.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I think the glich with chlorella is that it isn't SCD legal. Firefaery said that she took it anyway with enzymes. I have taken it in the past, but didn't notice much from it.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Anyone here know about Amines?

For the past month I have been eating SCD legal but allowing myself to eat any veggies I want. And those have been tomatoes, tons of fermented carrots and cabbage, broccoli, red peppers, tons of spinach, avocado, eggplant, tons of other green leafy stuff, and have been using lots of spices. DS's eczema has been getting worse and worse. I found a list of amines and it is basically what I have been eating







NOt to mention the list includes many of my migraine triggers. It could explain DS's itchiness after I ate fish and reactions to eggs. But then again it could all be coincidence.

This idea just complicates things further, but also explains why DS improved when I restarted SCD (it was far lower in amines than what I am eating now.)
Am I grabbing at straws here? Is it worth it to try eliminating Amines?

Here is a good list if you desire to see it:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergyd...fi/amines.html


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

amines, salicylates, etc are all compounds found in various foods. another good link for salicylates and amines in particular: http://www.zipworld.com.au/~ataraxy/Amines_list.html (indirectly found from http://enzymestuff.com)

i've recently heard about a diet called "FAILSAFE" for food intolerances to additives and various chemicals contained therein (both chemical additives in addition to naturally occurring ones like amines).

has anyone else heard about this? there's a yahoo group for straight FAILSAFE, and another one NT-FAILSAFE (or something like that), incorporating NT principles on top of the FAILSAFE principles.

so....Nolansmom, it might be worthwhile for you to reduce your amine intake and log all responses, then do a small challenge - that would give you an answer.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
I think the glich with chlorella is that it isn't SCD legal. Firefaery said that she took it anyway with enzymes. I have taken it in the past, but didn't notice much from it.









i'm thinking one needs to take a lot to notice anything. kefir makes me detox in some way, i think (stinky pits here). when i take 3 capsules of chorella-spirulina-greens mix after/with my kefir, i'm not so stinky.

on another note - the ND was dead on with the Lumbar 3 connection for ds. (Actually, it is lumbar 1, but close enough i guess) we had totally normal poops this weekend. yay. haven't tried the cina remedy yet because it hasn't come in to the store (silly lady only ordered it today - coulda gotten it sooner had i ordered it online - but no... i had to decide to support local business with this purchase).


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
amines, salicylates, etc are all compounds found in various foods. another good link for salicylates and amines in particular: http://www.zipworld.com.au/~ataraxy/Amines_list.html (indirectly found from http://enzymestuff.com)

i've recently heard about a diet called "FAILSAFE" for food intolerances to additives and various chemicals contained therein (both chemical additives in addition to naturally occurring ones like amines).

has anyone else heard about this? there's a yahoo group for straight FAILSAFE, and another one NT-FAILSAFE (or something like that), incorporating NT principles on top of the FAILSAFE principles.

so....Nolansmom, it might be worthwhile for you to reduce your amine intake and log all responses, then do a small challenge - that would give you an answer.

Thanks, I may check out the NT-Failsafe group. Going to get the book tomorrow. More reading, more research...


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Anyone here know about Amines?

For the past month I have been eating SCD legal but allowing myself to eat any veggies I want. And those have been tomatoes, tons of fermented carrots and cabbage, broccoli, red peppers, tons of spinach, avocado, eggplant, tons of other green leafy stuff, and have been using lots of spices. DS's eczema has been getting worse and worse. I found a list of amines and it is basically what I have been eating







NOt to mention the list includes many of my migraine triggers. It could explain DS's itchiness after I ate fish and reactions to eggs. But then again it could all be coincidence.

This idea just complicates things further, but also explains why DS improved when I restarted SCD (it was far lower in amines than what I am eating now.)
Am I grabbing at straws here? Is it worth it to try eliminating Amines?

Here is a good list if you desire to see it:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergyd...fi/amines.html

So, would someone be "allergic" to amines? What makes a person sensitive? Is it something to do with digestion or foreign proteins in the bloodstream or what?

It's crazy because my dd has problems with soooo many of the fruits on that list, minus bananas and avocados. Her face gets really red when she eats them, and then, her diaper area and eczema spots (behind one knee and under both arms) turn red. Today, I gave her blackberries (which I thought were "safe") and she had the same reaction. I wonder sometimes if the problem is acidity (they weren't very sweet). I have read that those with dairy allergies are sensitive to tomatoes, oranges, and other citrusy-acidy things *until* they get their allergy under control (after a long period of abstinence??) but I don't understand the mechanism at all.

Bluets: The list you posted (that includes salicylates) is strange because it lists a lot of those same fruits as low in amines. Am I not understanding it correctly?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So my chiro today (subbing for my reglar chiro who is out on maternity leave) said that she studied of a kind of energy work that somehow stops the mercury from doing damage w/o trying to get it out of the body. She is going to look up the details and we'll talk on Thursday.

I came across This site earlier. It has some interesting info (I've just skimmed it for now.)

Also has anyone heard of NMT?


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate* 
Hi mama! I remember all of your help and support when I was just learning that dd had GERD and related issues.

I'm sorry I don't have enough knowledge about that particular blood test to offer advice but wanted to give you a







(We had the RAST test done for dd.)

Thank you, I will take the hug any time. It was a rough day, but ended on a high note at least.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
So, would someone be "allergic" to amines? What makes a person sensitive? Is it something to do with digestion or foreign proteins in the bloodstream or what?

It's crazy because my dd has problems with soooo many of the fruits on that list, minus bananas and avocados. Her face gets really red when she eats them, and then, her diaper area and eczema spots (behind one knee and under both arms) turn red. Today, I gave her blackberries (which I thought were "safe") and she had the same reaction. I wonder sometimes if the problem is acidity (they weren't very sweet). I have read that those with dairy allergies are sensitive to tomatoes, oranges, and other citrusy-acidy things *until* they get their allergy under control (after a long period of abstinence??) but I don't understand the mechanism at all.

Bluets: The list you posted (that includes salicylates) is strange because it lists a lot of those same fruits as low in amines. Am I not understanding it correctly?

Salicylates are phenols, amines are in a different category, they are amino acids. As I understand it one wouldn't be allergic to amines, but rather sensitive to them. However, there is a big crossover of foods high in amines and salicylates. I feel like my whole world has been turned upside down







: There is quite a bit of info if you poke around the website I posted.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Salicylates are phenols, amines are in a different category, they are amino acids. As I understand it one wouldn't be allergic to amines, but rather sensitive to them. However, there is a big crossover of foods high in amines and salicylates. I feel like my whole world has been turned upside down







: There is quite a bit of info if you poke around the website I posted.

Thanks. I sometimes wish I didn't care about researching all of this. If I just filled the prescriptions and applied the steroids like a good little patient. Sigh. I guess ignorance really is bliss. I'll start reading up on this tomorrow because my brain is mush tonight.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Coconut yogurt makers! I have a question:

How will I know if my probiotics are really multiplying? Will the yogurt taste sour? In some ways, making yogurt will be the test to see if my probiotics are actually alive (the company says they are, despite the fact that they arrived to me in an unrefrigerated package, so they were room temp for a few days). Thanks!


----------



## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Another question with the chorella thing... what can you use instead of it? I can find Spirulina here, but have never seen chorella. And just by coming back to China and eating proper veggies again I have lost a bunch of weight and have been worried that I am dumping some serious toxins in the bm. And dd's eczema has also gotten WAY worse in this time. Now I am on this elimination diet and pouring oil on everything because I am always hungry (and I eat a lot, a lot of veggies and seeds), but I still am not sure that my weight has stabilised. I would really like to be able to take something to help with the toxins.


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## heathenmom (Mar 9, 2005)

Hi! I'm new here ... I was referred to this thread from the NT forum. Here's what's happening with my 28 m/o dd:

DD has been prone to ear infections, sniffles, colds for the last year or so. I tried to treat them homeopathically the best I knew how, but a couple of times she ended up on antibiotics for very high fevers (over 104) associated with the ear infections. (In my ped's defense -- they DON'T like to give antibiotics and ALWAYS recommend that you give probiotics at the same time and for a month afterwards, to help restore the balance.) She has also had what I thought were night terrors for about the same amount of time ... maybe longer. She would, from a deep sleep, start screaming hysterically. We couldn't rouse her and she didn't know who we were. Everything I read about night terrors said there was nothing to do for them except keep your child from hurting themselves during the episodes.

In October, things seemed to escalate: constant sniffles, terrible cough, ear infections, waking several times a night screaming. She also developed dark, dark circles under her eyes. We attributed them to lack of sleep .... I never connected the issues until I posted on the Nighttime Parenting forum about the night waking a couple of weeks ago (at that point, dd was waking up screaming every hour, taking 20-30 minutes to settle, then waking again the next hour .... all night long). A wonderful mama who I will always be indebted to suggested that a food issue might be causing *everything*.

Did I mention that dd was/is completely dairy-obsessed? At the worst point, she would barely eat anything but cheese/yogurt or drink anything but cow's milk.

So, she's been dairy-free (with 2 notable exceptions*) for about 10 days and her improvement is remarkable: waking once/night and going back to sleep easily with a little snuggling; sniffles & cough all but gone; her diet is back to a more normal variety and her appetite has returned.
* One night 3 days into the elimination, I gave her some Sun Chips with dinner.







That's all she would eat from her plate and she went right back that night to waking every hour screaming. I checked the bag the next day and saw they had cheese in them.
* Two nights ago we had veggie stirfry with smoked sausage. She ate more sausage than anybody at the table and had a terrible night, and her sniffles/cough returned. I checked the label the next day and found that the sausage was made with hydrolized whey protein. Who puts milk in SAUSAGE?!? I read EVERY SINGLE LABEL before she gets ANYTHING now ... I have learnt my lesson.

The day I decided to start a dairy elimination diet with her, her allergy test came back. It said that she's not allergic to any of the 18 things they tested her for (milk, wheat, soy among them). So, I don't know if she's allergic or not, but clearly milk makes her sick, so she's done with milk, for at least a little while.

I'm going to post in the allergy threads, too, but it was suggested in the NT forum that, if her gut is healed properly, she may be able to grow out of this and tolerate dairy again. They also suggested that it may be the pasturization process that's the problem, and raw milk may be fine for her. I'm scared to try it right now.

So ... all that to say, I'm here to learn what I can do to help my sweet girl get well. I know I've made some bad decisions that have contributed to the problem, but when you know better, you do better.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

heathenmom, i'm not surprised that they didn't find anything through allergy testing. we didn't either. the traditional allergy scratch tests only look at IgE (the anaphylactic reaction). your dd is probably demonstrating and IgG reaction - which means that undigested large proteins are getting into her system through the gut lining.

the good news is that you can help her









the bad news is that it is often trial and error, and there is lots of work to be done on your part, AND nothing ever works the same from one person to another.

i'm casein-free now (and probably shoulda been casein-free for a long time)... it does take a lot of creativity to find dairy substitutes that you know are casein-free. all is not lost - even though i don't drink milk, i can tolerate home-grown kefir (and probably yogurt) quite well. i keep my ds casein-free too - last fall he was much like your dd - ear infections (though i think we only had 1 real ear infection); congestion; blah blah blah. this fall - we're going through the first bad cold even though he is in fulltime daycare. woohoo. (have i mentioned here that Olbas syrup kicks butt?)

read the sticky that JaneS created about healing the gut. but feel free to ask as many questions as you have


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
Another question with the chorella thing... what can you use instead of it? I can find Spirulina here, but have never seen chorella. And just by coming back to China and eating proper veggies again I have lost a bunch of weight and have been worried that I am dumping some serious toxins in the bm. And dd's eczema has also gotten WAY worse in this time. Now I am on this elimination diet and pouring oil on everything because I am always hungry (and I eat a lot, a lot of veggies and seeds), but I still am not sure that my weight has stabilised. I would really like to be able to take something to help with the toxins.

Large doses of vitamin C (sodium acorbate) help eliminate toxins...liquid chlorophyll is supposed to help, too. I would think spirulina would be okay instead of chlorella but I don't really know. Oh, and pascalite clay is supposed to absorb toxins.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Coconut yogurt makers! I have a question:

How will I know if my probiotics are really multiplying? Will the yogurt taste sour? In some ways, making yogurt will be the test to see if my probiotics are actually alive (the company says they are, despite the fact that they arrived to me in an unrefrigerated package, so they were room temp for a few days). Thanks!

Your yogurt should get at least a little sour and the smell will change, although it may not necessarily smell like yogurt (the type of probiotic influences the smell). My really pricey probiotics were shipped unrefrigerated, too--from what I've read a few days at room temperature isn't going to significantly influence the probiotic counts.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beachbuminthecity* 
Sorry to change the topic but I have one question for the ones on a candida diet. Is homemade sourdough bread ok to have since it soaked (fermented) overnight.


Unless you have absolutely no digestive issues it's probably best avoided--grains (even properly prepared ones) tend to be hard to digest, and wheat is one of the hardest to digest. Generally candida diets only allow the easiest to digest grains like rice, buckwheat, aramanth, quinoa, and/or millet.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I think I need to start focusing more on leaky gut and less on yeast for myself as my yeast symptoms are pretty much gone but I obviously still have a very leaky gut, considering DD now seems to be reacting to everything I eat that's not on the candida diet. Who was it that posted about the supplement (MSM? L-gutamine?) they were taking that helped with their leaky gut--Bluets? Will you post that information again?


----------



## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Anyone here know about Amines?

For the past month I have been eating SCD legal but allowing myself to eat any veggies I want. And those have been tomatoes, tons of fermented carrots and cabbage, broccoli, red peppers, tons of spinach, avocado, eggplant, tons of other green leafy stuff, and have been using lots of spices. DS's eczema has been getting worse and worse. I found a list of amines and it is basically what I have been eating







NOt to mention the list includes many of my migraine triggers. It could explain DS's itchiness after I ate fish and reactions to eggs. But then again it could all be coincidence.

This idea just complicates things further, but also explains why DS improved when I restarted SCD (it was far lower in amines than what I am eating now.)
Am I grabbing at straws here? Is it worth it to try eliminating Amines?

Here is a good list if you desire to see it:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergyd...fi/amines.html

I was looking at that site again and I'm so overwhelmed! I really don't want to eliminate one more thing, but I really think we're sensitive to amines, too. I'm trying to find out the mechanism behind it, but I can't seem to. That site said that lots of people are sensitive to amines but no one knows why. I wonder if it can be helped by gut healing. I REALLY hope so.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

More on amines:
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuf...roduction.aspx

This explains the 'FAILSAFE' diet which eliminates salicylates, amines and glutamates.

The more i read about amine/salicylate sensitivity the more I think it is our problem, along with leaky gut. But perhaps my problem with amines caused me to get leaky gut which opened up the door for yeast.







This is why I believe amines are my problem: have always been sensitive to any scents (natural or synthetic, high in S's and A's), I crave strongly flavored foods(coffee, dark chocolate, aged cheese, very high in A's), the list of high amine foods is filled with my migraine triggers, DS got a bit better during SCD intro which is lower in amines/salicylates and got worse the more foods I added (like saurkraut, very high in A's), the list could go on and on. But as I read about it I keep thinking 'ah-ha'.

Still in the very early stages of reading and I will make some changes now but the issues are complex (like finding a fresh meat source, like they kill it and I'm eating it 3 days later.)


----------



## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
More on amines:
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuf...roduction.aspx

This explains the 'FAILSAFE' diet which eliminates salicylates, amines and glutamates.

The more i read about amine/salicylate sensitivity the more I think it is our problem, along with leaky gut. But perhaps my problem with amines caused me to get leaky gut which opened up the door for yeast.







This is why I believe amines are my problem: have always been sensitive to any scents (natural or synthetic, high in S's and A's), I crave strongly flavored foods(coffee, dark chocolate, aged cheese, very high in A's), the list of high amine foods is filled with my migraine triggers, DS got a bit better during SCD intro which is lower in amines/salicylates and got worse the more foods I added (like saurkraut, very high in A's), the list could go on and on. But as I read about it I keep thinking 'ah-ha'.

Still in the very early stages of reading and I will make some changes now but the issues are complex (like finding a fresh meat source, like they kill it and I'm eating it 3 days later.)

That link is very interesting! So, presumably, enzymes would help amine-sensitivity, too?

I'm going to look around the Failsafe forum later today when I have time. I noticed just now after glancing through it that the parents over there are challenging it after a period of time, just like an allergy challenge. So, I guess there is hope to overcome it.

BTW, I've started getting hive-like bumps on my torso when I eat the high amine fruits (pineapple and blackberries most noteably). I've never had that problem until after the antibiotics I had when dd was born. So, it seems like it's all part of gut-healing.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I think I need to start focusing more on leaky gut and less on yeast for myself as my yeast symptoms are pretty much gone but I obviously still have a very leaky gut, considering DD now seems to be reacting to everything I eat that's not on the candida diet. Who was it that posted about the supplement (MSM? L-gutamine?) they were taking that helped with their leaky gut--Bluets? Will you post that information again?

okie dokie...

i started out for a month on RenewLife's "IntestiNew" product and MSM. during that time, I cut out 99% of grains and sugar - was pretty much eating meat (no grassfed but mostly lamb, chicken, pork sausages), veggies (broccoli, cauliflower, carrots coz that's all that ds likes), fruit (apples, sometimes strawberries but mostly apples which are high in pectin - also good in gut healing), nuts (almonds, cashews occasionally, walnuts, pecans). started 1300mg x 4 of EPO.

then I added homemade sauerkraut, pickles, kefir and applied NT principles to beans and rice but had beans/brown rice only once a week.

then i switched to Metagenics' Glutagenics and their UltraFlora Plus DF probiotic. ND told me to use Beano for foods when I was having troubles digesting stuff, but particularly beans. started KAL UltraOmega 3 6 9 (4 capsules per day) plus 4 x 1300mg EPO. did this all for 3 months. at some point in there, i added in sourdough bread (French Meadow brand).

so i started this in April and by September I felt I could expand to different foods (that's when I started getting creative beyond meat and steamed veggies - like fancier recipes from NT or Cathe's "Vegetarian Mother's Cookbook" and so on. i think it was some time in November when my gut got weird - too many rice flour products (unsoaked), too many fancy sauces, too many beans, etc. and something happened to my kefir but now that's all better AND we're doing slightly simpler meals (much much less stressful) and i'm feeling better again.

a little off-topic:
the Metagenics products are pricey but very well studied and subjected to lots of quality control. ND says that he used to shop around for supplements but having gone through some vendor-led training sessions (he works at the HFS in the supplements section), he prefers the bigger name companies like the parent company for KAL, Standard Process and Metagenics because they have the money to do rigorous quality control studies on their products. yes, they are nutriceutical companies but at least they aren't pharmaceutical companies. with some of the legislation being pushed through, i bet it will be these nutriceutical companies that will remain once the little guys can't afford the paperwork and testing as required by the incoming laws. (i'd cite legislation numbers but i'd have to do some serious hunting, but you might watch the video on google about Codex Alimentarius)


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
More on amines:
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuf...roduction.aspx

This explains the 'FAILSAFE' diet which eliminates salicylates, amines and glutamates.

The more i read about amine/salicylate sensitivity the more I think it is our problem, along with leaky gut. But perhaps my problem with amines caused me to get leaky gut which opened up the door for yeast.







This is why I believe amines are my problem: have always been sensitive to any scents (natural or synthetic, high in S's and A's), I crave strongly flavored foods(coffee, dark chocolate, aged cheese, very high in A's), the list of high amine foods is filled with my migraine triggers, DS got a bit better during SCD intro which is lower in amines/salicylates and got worse the more foods I added (like saurkraut, very high in A's), the list could go on and on. But as I read about it I keep thinking 'ah-ha'.

Still in the very early stages of reading and I will make some changes now but the issues are complex (like finding a fresh meat source, like they kill it and I'm eating it 3 days later.)


if you read the list of forbidden foods, you'll notice that bone broths are out on the FAILSAFE diet.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I'm doing scd. No dairy. I added red meat into my diet probably 6-8 months ago. At that point my iron was 28. I got blood work from my Dr today saying that it is now 20. I used to see a different Dr in the practice and she was concerned about my level being 28. She has left the practice and the Dr I am now seeing isn't concerned (but possibly didn't realize that this was a drop for me). I try to get liver. I probably get it about 1x a month but that is way better than I used to. I also eat red meat 2-4x a week if not more and I wasn't eating any before earlier this year.

Patty,

This is just an idea based on some reading I've been doing. You're doing the meat, so that's good. Iron is more easily absorbed from meat. Your digestion isn't all that it could be. Why not try fermenting a vegetable juice with vegetables high in iron? Spinach is the big one. Add something sweet to make it palatable. Find a good recipe from raw foodists, but then ferment it with water kefir grains. I can send you some if you need them. The problem with these vegetables usually is that they are high in oxalates which bind iron, but I just found a very interesting study about fermented carrot juice and the increased solubility of iron (I have been looking for this for months). Carrots aren't particularly high in iron but they are high in oxalates and the fermentation took care of that. Such a juice would give you beneficial bacteria as well which could help your gut.

Amanda


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
More on amines:
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuf...roduction.aspx

This explains the 'FAILSAFE' diet which eliminates salicylates, amines and glutamates.

The more i read about amine/salicylate sensitivity the more I think it is our problem, along with leaky gut. But perhaps my problem with amines caused me to get leaky gut which opened up the door for yeast.







This is why I believe amines are my problem: have always been sensitive to any scents (natural or synthetic, high in S's and A's), I crave strongly flavored foods(coffee, dark chocolate, aged cheese, very high in A's), the list of high amine foods is filled with my migraine triggers, DS got a bit better during SCD intro which is lower in amines/salicylates and got worse the more foods I added (like saurkraut, very high in A's), the list could go on and on. But as I read about it I keep thinking 'ah-ha'.

Still in the very early stages of reading and I will make some changes now but the issues are complex (like finding a fresh meat source, like they kill it and I'm eating it 3 days later.)

You know, looking at the lists again (particularly that color-coded one) I would have to say that our problem is much more salicylates than amines. The berries and melons are problematic for us, but they do not contain amines. The tropical fruits are a problem, too, but they contain both salicylates and amines. I wish the list broke them down to see the amounts for both. http://www.users.bigpond.com/mywebho...hor-Frui-36300

Also, I react when I eat too much the food (like the huge container of blackberries I ate yesterday







: ). A few don't bother me, but too many do. I woke up with hivey things on my side and tummy today and dd's face got red after eating them (and though it was clear by this morning, she cried all night because her tummy was hurting so bad







She felt great once she have a bm. Sorry for the tmi.

This is all so hard to figure out.







:


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force* 
Patty,

This is just an idea based on some reading I've been doing. You're doing the meat, so that's good. Iron is more easily absorbed from meat. Your digestion isn't all that it could be. Why not try fermenting a vegetable juice with vegetables high in iron? Spinach is the big one. Add something sweet to make it palatable. Find a good recipe from raw foodists, but then ferment it with water kefir grains. I can send you some if you need them. The problem with these vegetables usually is that they are high in oxalates which bind iron, but I just found a very interesting study about fermented carrot juice and the increased solubility of iron (I have been looking for this for months). Carrots aren't particularly high in iron but they are high in oxalates and the fermentation took care of that. Such a juice would give you beneficial bacteria as well which could help your gut.

Amanda

Am I gonna need a juicer to do this?


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
if you read the list of forbidden foods, you'll notice that bone broths are out on the FAILSAFE diet.

yeah







. Gelatine is out, All well/overcooked meats are out. And guess what I have been eating lately: crockpot meals with meats that have been cooking slowly for hours. Im going to have to figure out how to have a healthy diet, eat less amines and heal my gut. GFCF sounds so easy now







I don't see this as an all or nothing thing for us (yet), perhaps if I lessen the total load of amines there will be things that we can tolerate in moderation.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Am I gonna need a juicer to do this?

Good point. Yes.







: Small detail.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Oh, ladies. Our sagas keep continuing, don't they. Mine is. And I am wondering if any of you have any thoughts because I am a bit







: about all of it.

I had my third and most sever face rash, which started Thursday a week ago. It keeps getting better every day, but is still not completely gone. I would say I had my first one in the last 2-3 months. The middle one was mild, but only two weeks after I healed from the first one. This one was worse and is lasting longer. And I almost feel that it is starting up again -- feeling very itching on my neck and cheeks at times, and my eyelids are red, which is how it always starts. I think that my doc is a bit concerned about anaphalytic shock and perscribed me an epipen, among other things.

He also did some allergy testing (blood). The results are very inconculsive. He tested most things that I eat with regularity: carrot, corn, apple, avocado, banana, almond, cashews, cinnamon, coconut, gluten, walnut, chick pea, coffee. The results for ALL of them is .35 kU/L. Below .35 is "absent/undectable" and then the next range is .35-.70, considered low level. My take from this is that I do not have a full-blown allergy to anything, but seem to be reacting a bit to everything???

He gave me a referral to a GI guy and a dermotologist. I am not sure how much the derm can help me, but he thought I should get an endoscopy done, and I suggested being tested for the hyliobactor pylori (sp?), since I seem to have gastritis.

I have been taking a Nexum a day, which I know I need to cut out. I just got the book that saskiasmom recommended, Stop Heartburn Naturally in 30 Days. I haven't gotten very far, but looks promising.

Part of my problem is that I have no idea what I react to. There seems not to be any direct corelation between what I eat and how my body responds. My stomach pain/nausea is hugely better since I cut out coffee and even caffienated black tea, but that is about it.

I was debating starting SCD again. I don't feel that it helped me hugely, but maybe a little? I think there is a anti-candida diet recommendation in the Heartburn book, so might check that out too.

I have an appointment with the GI guy tomorrow. I am tempted to cancel and go after the holidays, but I am also curious as to what he might say. But will it be anything I want to hear?!?!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force* 
Good point. Yes.







: Small detail.

couldn't it be done just be doing kimchi style concoctions? i'm thinking about the kimchi recipe in wild fermentation or the gingered carrots in NT. you could either stuff all the veggies into the jar, fill with water and then stuff in some grains and let it ferment OR you could run the veggies through a food processor or blender, then squish it into a jar, top with water if needed and drop in the grains. perhaps put the grains in a nutmilk bag first.

not that i've tried this


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

moonshine - have you looked at some of Nolansmom's link about the FAILSAFE program, particularly the foods that are high in amines/salicylates? perhaps start there and see if you problematic foods are on that list.

re: gastritis - i thought i had read that kefir can help with that, but i can't remember where i saw it - maybe the kefir-making yahoo group?

doesn't heartburn arise from low stomach acid? i also thought i read that there's the beet test to see about low stomach acid - eat a whole beet and if your pee is pink, then you have low stomach acid and should SUPPLEMENT with HCl of some sort.

what supplements are you taking?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
crockpot meals with meats that have been cooking slowly for hours. Im going to have to figure out how to have a healthy diet, eat less amines and heal my gut.

not only do i have a love-hate relationship with my crockpot but i also have a love/hate relationship with crockpot meals. i find that meat just gets too stringy and has no texture. blech. it's great for beans and rice (separately) but that's all i've found it good for.

as for meat... if you have a local (or semi-local) source for grassfed anything, see how long it takes to get from farm to your freezer. i know that the half grassfed beef and now the half grassfed hog we got landed in the deep freeze at the slaughterhouse within relatively short amount of time - not sure if it was 3 days (i'm not sure how long they hang them but this place is so small that i could have asked if needed).

i LOVE brussel sprouts but we never eat them because dh doesn't like them (he's SUCH a picky eater) - i could easily eat meat + steamed brussel sprouts for dinner or meat + steamed carrots or meat + cabbage (mmmmm cabbage rolls) for weeks at a time.

you can do it


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
moonshine - have you looked at some of Nolansmom's link about the FAILSAFE program, particularly the foods that are high in amines/salicylates? perhaps start there and see if you problematic foods are on that list.

I went rather







: when I first looked at that site, thinking, no way could I do this!







: But on a serious note, I have no idea what I am reacting to, so it is very hard for me to work with something like that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
re: gastritis - i thought i had read that kefir can help with that, but i can't remember where i saw it - maybe the kefir-making yahoo group?

doesn't heartburn arise from low stomach acid? i also thought i read that there's the beet test to see about low stomach acid - eat a whole beet and if your pee is pink, then you have low stomach acid and should SUPPLEMENT with HCl of some sort.

I have been making water kefir, but haven't had so much in the last few days. I just made coconut milk kefir today. I think that it turned out ok. As for the heartburn, I don't have that, as far as I know, but had severe nausea (pre medication) and reflux (which I still have). But yes, I should probably do the HCl test -- I did it this summer and was low. I did supplement, although probably not enough, and also tried to stick with the water w/vinegar before eating, but I didn't maintain it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
what supplements are you taking?

SA, CLO, Mg, Kelp (tested myself for iodine, low on that), Selenium, bioflavonoids, Digest Gold and Wobenzyme.


----------



## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Large doses of vitamin C (sodium acorbate) help eliminate toxins...liquid chlorophyll is supposed to help, too. I would think spirulina would be okay instead of chlorella but I don't really know. Oh, and pascalite clay is supposed to absorb toxins.

I took large doses of vit c (Ascorbic Acid, cannot find SA here and I LOVE salt so I guess I get enough sodium?) but then stopped because I wasn't sure if it made dd's eczema worse. Now I have been eliminating things for about 10 days (except MSG which was in some fermented veggies that we just got from the fresh market here







: , i haven't gotten around to making it myself and theirs are homemade, so I wanted to give it a try). So, the MSG was two days ago. I know it really bothers dd's stomach, which it did. Then I started taking the AA again, several grams yesterday. And dd has a runny nose so I added some baking soda to the AA and gave her some in bm yesterday - about 1000mg, if that much. Last night was horrible. NO sleep. She cried and scratched and had gas. This morning some of her eczema is bright red again (she has it over most of her body but some parts get all red and angry and itchy).







:
Does anybody know if this is because the vit c is causing die-off in her (I am pretty sure she has yeast... and it actually makes me pretty gassy as well), or does she respond to the AA itself? Or to fillers in it? I asked a dr here what is in it because I don't understand the ingredients list and neither do my Chinese friends. Some say only vit c and some say starch also. The one we use says it has only AA in it.
Or is her skin only now reacting to the MSG (a day and a half after I ate it - it was a lot, it made me dizzy)?

Oh, and I also started giving her probiotics, but just a little. DH was adament that we do it slow. He is very worried about die-off. Are we too worried?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force* 
Good point. Yes.







: Small detail.

I've been wanting a juicer but since we had to buy a new camera, our stove needs a major repair $$$ and my kitchen aid is on the fritz I don't think a juicer is in the budget right now.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets* 
couldn't it be done just be doing kimchi style concoctions? i'm thinking about the kimchi recipe in wild fermentation or the gingered carrots in NT. you could either stuff all the veggies into the jar, fill with water and then stuff in some grains and let it ferment OR you could run the veggies through a food processor or blender, then squish it into a jar, top with water if needed and drop in the grains. perhaps put the grains in a nutmilk bag first.

not that i've tried this










Yes, definitely. I'd try the kimchi version and just use salt. It's hard to imagine straining the kefir grains out. I was just thinking that with the juicing you'd get a pretty big punch of nutrients quickly. And you'd just have to stay ahead of yourself. But yes, it's more kitchen equipment. That's where the kimchi has the advantage.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
He also did some allergy testing (blood). The results are very inconculsive. He tested most things that I eat with regularity: carrot, corn, apple, avocado, banana, almond, cashews, cinnamon, coconut, gluten, walnut, chick pea, coffee. The results for ALL of them is .35 kU/L. Below .35 is "absent/undectable" and then the next range is .35-.70, considered low level. My take from this is that I do not have a full-blown allergy to anything, but seem to be reacting a bit to everything???!

Stab in the dark, have you looked into-phenols, salycilates and amine sensitivities? I am reading about them now.
http://www.danasview.net/phenol.htm
http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergyd...fi/amines.html
http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergyd...tolerance.html
I see you already looked at some of these sites. I *think* our biggest amine problem is with fermented veggies, coconut oil (high), olive oil (high), almonds(high), most spices which I had been using a lot of. I also read that Kombucha tea is high in Salycilates, could explain why some people get headaches from drinking it? Of course I don't know yet if this is truly it but I will keep you posted.
I also read some interesting posts at the FailsafeNT:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FailsafeNT/


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

So, I went to another GI doc last week. I waited an hour and a half (with 3 yo dd in tow, mind you) to see her but she was way better than that other schmuck I saw previously. She recommended trying a few different OTC things before we jump into colonoscopies and all that stuff. I'm in total agreement since I *know* I'm not dealing with anything larger than an irritable gut. I hate calling it that because I know that's a catch term used by the conventional medical establishment but that's the best I can come up with. What I do know is that my gut issues are clearly related to hormones. I took Clomid and had an HSG shot last month and felt better than I had in weeks. Unfortunately I didn't get pg, got my period (with nasty cramps and weird tissue-like stuff coming out - nice, huh?) and now my stomach is a wreck. I'm still doing gf/cf yet am still gassy and have urgent messy poops. I'm taking enzymes and they have helped only slightly.

The GI doc told me to take probiotics (of course - and I do, although not the crappy brand she recommended) and to try fiber supplements. I know I took fiber supps years ago and can't remember what kind I used or the results. Can anyone school me on whether this would be something to consider and what kind/brand would be best?
What I liked about the GI doc was that she was sensitive to my desire to be as holistic as possible. She also asked a ton of pertinent questions (how fast do I eat my meals, what other issues am I dealing with, what is a typical breakfast/lunch/dinner, do I drink/eat anything with caffeine, etc etc) and listened to my answers. That's what I was hoping for...
She also told me it's very common for symptoms like I have to disappear during pg and pp and that's exactly what happened when I was pg with dd. There's that hormonal connection again. And I'm pretty sure what it's doing is screwing with my gut motility which sets me up for all sorts of imbalances. So the question becomes - how do I correct a motility issue?


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## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I've been wanting a juicer but since we had to buy a new camera, our stove needs a major repair $$$ and my kitchen aid is on the fritz I don't think a juicer is in the budget right now.

Do you have a juice bar near you? I guess a quart of carrot juice wouldnt be cheap either. What about odwalla? I think they have 1/2 gallons for $6.


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saskiasmom* 
Do you have a juice bar near you? I guess a quart of carrot juice wouldnt be cheap either. What about odwalla? I think they have 1/2 gallons for $6.

I'm kicking myself for selling my juicer a few years back. It was a PITA, but I think I could really use some fresh veggie juice these days. The problem with pre-made juices like Odwalla is that they are pasteurized.

In answer to my own question about fiber I've narrowed down my search but unfortunately the kind I want to take is a no-no for pg women and since I'm ttc I don't want to risk anything.
Permavite


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

On the nutrition board, someone mentioned nettle tea for iron. Nettle has been used a lot for iron deficiency anemia and would even be better fermented. There must be some herbal mixtures recommended for iron. There are quite a few herbs high in iron. I would make the tea and add it to sugar water that has been innoculated by water kefir grains and then let it sit until it's not so sweet.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
I'm doing scd. No dairy. I added red meat into my diet probably 6-8 months ago. At that point my iron was 28. I got blood work from my Dr today saying that it is now 20. I used to see a different Dr in the practice and she was concerned about my level being 28. She has left the practice and the Dr I am now seeing isn't concerned (but possibly didn't realize that this was a drop for me). I try to get liver. I probably get it about 1x a month but that is way better than I used to. I also eat red meat 2-4x a week if not more and I wasn't eating any before earlier this year.

have you thought about infusions? nettle has a lot of iron, and probably other herbs, too.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
I took large doses of vit c (Ascorbic Acid, cannot find SA here and I LOVE salt so I guess I get enough sodium?) but then stopped because I wasn't sure if it made dd's eczema worse. Now I have been eliminating things for about 10 days (except MSG which was in some fermented veggies that we just got from the fresh market here







: , i haven't gotten around to making it myself and theirs are homemade, so I wanted to give it a try). So, the MSG was two days ago. I know it really bothers dd's stomach, which it did. Then I started taking the AA again, several grams yesterday. And dd has a runny nose so I added some baking soda to the AA and gave her some in bm yesterday - about 1000mg, if that much. Last night was horrible. NO sleep. She cried and scratched and had gas. This morning some of her eczema is bright red again (she has it over most of her body but some parts get all red and angry and itchy).







:
Does anybody know if this is because the vit c is causing die-off in her (I am pretty sure she has yeast... and it actually makes me pretty gassy as well), or does she respond to the AA itself? Or to fillers in it? I asked a dr here what is in it because I don't understand the ingredients list and neither do my Chinese friends. Some say only vit c and some say starch also. The one we use says it has only AA in it.
Or is her skin only now reacting to the MSG (a day and a half after I ate it - it was a lot, it made me dizzy)?

Oh, and I also started giving her probiotics, but just a little. DH was adament that we do it slow. He is very worried about die-off. Are we too worried?

High doses of vitamin C cause gas and diarrhea, so that could be the cause of her gas.

I'm not sure about die-off, but I wouldn't think it would happen that quickly.

Also, ascorbic acid is usually derived from corn (it's the cheapest source, so most companies use it). Since we've entered the world of corn allergy, I can tell you it's VERY difficult to find safe supplements (much less food). We've been corn-free for about 6 weeks and the change in dd's skin/congestion has been amazing. The other day, I had some unsafe chicken (I thought it was organic, but it was not; it was conventional and injected with a modified food starch and dextrose solution [both corn derived]) and that night, dd's eczema flared and so did mine. It's taken a few days for it to clear, but we're looking much better today.

If you can't find another culprit, you might look into the corn connection.


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## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

i was just cooking lunch, and thought of another iron source: cast iron pots and pans! each time you use them a little iron gets into the food, especially if it's an acidic food. they're heavy (hard on the wrist if you're used to stainless steel), but pretty cheap, and often you can get them used at flea markets, estate sales (and those are usually beautifully seasoned), and thrift stores. if you get them new, you have to season them by coating them lightly with oil and putting them in the oven on low heat for a while. then each time you use them, dry them after cleaning and rub a little bit of oil on them (i use canola, for high heat tolerance).


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Someone mentioned on another thread about taking some blackstrap molasses and chasing it down with orange juice to get iron. Not sure if you can do juice, but just a thought.


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Anyone ever make/eat congee? I've got some cooking in my crock pot right now. I'm hoping it'll be the one thing I can keep in my belly.








It was my all-time favorite dish at Dharma's in CA. Something about that congee that made me feel so good. I'm hoping to reproduce it in my kitchen.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
have you thought about infusions? nettle has a lot of iron, and probably other herbs, too.

I've been doing nettle this whole time as well as yellow dock


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
i was just cooking lunch, and thought of another iron source: cast iron pots and pans! each time you use them a little iron gets into the food, especially if it's an acidic food. they're heavy (hard on the wrist if you're used to stainless steel), but pretty cheap, and often you can get them used at flea markets, estate sales (and those are usually beautifully seasoned), and thrift stores. if you get them new, you have to season them by coating them lightly with oil and putting them in the oven on low heat for a while. then each time you use them, dry them after cleaning and rub a little bit of oil on them (i use canola, for high heat tolerance).

I have used cast iron for years.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine* 
Someone mentioned on another thread about taking some blackstrap molasses and chasing it down with orange juice to get iron. Not sure if you can do juice, but just a thought.

Can't do juice or molasses. Thanks though.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

So could something be keeping you from absorbing the iron you are getting? Seems like something MT might know on the Nutrition/Immunology sticky.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok I've done some looking. It could be because I'm not getting enough vitamin C! Now that I don't eat any fruit and I'm not good about taking my vitamin C suppliment I'm sure I'm not getting nearly the vitamin C I used to get. Now to figure out how to make myself take enough.....


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## snozzberry (Jul 29, 2005)

Hi all -- I'm a little scared to be jumping into the middle here without having read the whole thread







but I just posted a question about kefir that I thought y'all might be able to help with. Do you have any idea what might have caused that sort of reaction to kefir? What's funny (in a sad sort of way) is that I wasn't having any real digestive problems before I started taking the kefir 2 weeks ago...I just thought it would be a good thing to try!


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla* 
Ok I've done some looking. It could be because I'm not getting enough vitamin C! Now that I don't eat any fruit and I'm not good about taking my vitamin C suppliment I'm sure I'm not getting nearly the vitamin C I used to get. Now to figure out how to make myself take enough.....

i would do a mix of sodium ascorbate and bioflavonoids (see the SA thread in the Vax forum for details) and dump it into a water bottle for the day. Slurp slurp on it over the course of theday. If you don't reach bowel tolerance, up the amount the next day.

but Gale Force's idea about kefirizing a green drink would also hit the spot. Spinach and other greens are also pretty high in vitamin C.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snozzberry* 
Hi all -- I'm a little scared to be jumping into the middle here without having read the whole thread







but I just posted a question about kefir that I thought y'all might be able to help with. Do you have any idea what might have caused that sort of reaction to kefir? What's funny (in a sad sort of way) is that I wasn't having any real digestive problems before I started taking the kefir 2 weeks ago...I just thought it would be a good thing to try!


from what i've read kefir does have that -- uh -- regularity-promoting feature. It also slows down your digestion so that, for instance, whole grains can actually be better absorbed instead of racing through our gut. It might take some time to become one with your kefir grain flora. But trust me, once you are symbiotic with those grains, you will not want to stop -- bad things happen when you do.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Another tidbit of info from the amine realm, someone posted this comment on Failsafe NT:

Quote:

Citrus fruit and some other tropical fruit contain histamine
degranulators that stimulate your body to release histamine.

Quote:

"Lemon juice is typically squeezed onto fish dishes; the acidic juice
neutralizes the taste of amines in fish by converting them to
nonvolatile ammonium salts."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon
Yup, I've been using lemon a lot, love to add it to my drinking water.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Found another interesting conversation over at FailsafeNT:

Quote:

> I noticed that you said that Kombucha can be harmful if taken at the
wrong
> time.

Kombucha is definitely a double-edged sword. It contains salicylates
from the tea, and possibly some amines, and some oxalates. But it also
contains glucuronic acid, which is one of the substances your body
uses to detoxify amines and salicylates.

I seem to be able to drink kombucha only during the summer. I can
manage about a shotglass a day, and I have to take breaks from it. I
have to make sure to eat it when it's "just right" - not too sweet or
sour, and not store it too long. It definitely calms me down when I'm
reacting (I even sneakily gave it to my sister when she was all cross
the day after eating a curry and it sorted her out!). But if I leave
it too long or it's underdone, it makes my face itch and I get urticaria.

It also contains something called usnic acid which gives you a bit of
a lift and helps to raise your metabolism - so it's helpful for weight
loss, as long as you don't overdo it.

> I was also making kefir in regular batches and just eating lots of
> fermented foods in general and suddenly they all started to cause me
to wake
> in themiddle of the night and not be able to get back to sleep and
feel hung
> over in the am.

I have had this problem with kefir. I think it may be a tyramine
reaction. You can also get glutamate reactions (gives you a rush and
overstimulates your brain), and GABA reactions (calms you down and
makes you a bit sleepy) from kefir. I find I'm not too bad with it if
I keep it in a fairly cold place when it's fermenting, I don't leave
it longer than twelve hours, and I don't have it every day.

This was a problem that I had thought I had cured by eating
> low carb, and then gluten free.

You'd be surprised how many people I come across who have these food
chemical reactions, who seem to improve or are partially/temporarily
cured on a low carb diet!

So I stopped all the ferments for about a
> year and now I seem to be fine with saurkraut or pickled beets. I
am not
> presently eating dairy except ghee and I am scared to even try
kombucha or
> miso. should I try them?

Miso is pretty reactive stuff, especially for glutamates, so I'd use a
lot of caution with that.

> How do you know when is the right time for
> Kombucha?

I think after the elimination diet once you know what you do and do
not react to, you could try doing a trial of it, preferably during the
summer, to see what effect it has on you.

> The thing is I also had this strange rash on my face ..and during
the year
> of no ferments I was taking milk thistle reguarly to clear it and it did
> work, very gradually for my rash.

That ties in very nicely because milk thistle is just about the only
herb that is good for people with food chemical intolerance!

And probably that is what helped me to be
> able to eat some ferments...but why? What do ferments have to do
with one's
> liver?

The amines produced in the ferments need detoxifying by the liver. One
of the ways the liver detoxifies them is by producing glucuronic acid
and joining them to the amines. But your body and some of your
intestinal bacteria also make an enzyme called beta-glucuronidase that
unjoins the amines so they go back into circulation around your system
and need detoxifying again. Milk thistle suppresses
beta-glucuronidase, so you only have to detoxify the amines once.


----------



## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Found another yahoo group about sulfur some of us may be interested in
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/sulfurstories/

Have not had a chance to look at it yet


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
High doses of vitamin C cause gas and diarrhea, so that could be the cause of her gas.

I'm not sure about die-off, but I wouldn't think it would happen that quickly.

Also, ascorbic acid is usually derived from corn (it's the cheapest source, so most companies use it). Since we've entered the world of corn allergy, I can tell you it's VERY difficult to find safe supplements (much less food). We've been corn-free for about 6 weeks and the change in dd's skin/congestion has been amazing. The other day, I had some unsafe chicken (I thought it was organic, but it was not; it was conventional and injected with a modified food starch and dextrose solution [both corn derived]) and that night, dd's eczema flared and so did mine. It's taken a few days for it to clear, but we're looking much better today.

If you can't find another culprit, you might look into the corn connection.


Corn! Great







: Do you use SA? If you do, which brand do you use?


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

i had the congee last night. it was only fair, although dd loved it. i'll be eating it again today since i was able to keep it in. my gut hurts this morning from all it went through yesterday and i'm feeling so frustrated, so very frustrated.







:


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

All this new information on sulfites/amines/etc is very interesting...I don't think I have problems with any of it, but maybe DD does. I think I am going to see if I can figure out more of the things she reacts to, first, though, before I invest a bunch of time and effort into learning about sulfites and things like that.

I've given DD about a Tbsp of kombucha a day for the last two days...yesterday my mom was watching her and she said she threw up twice, although she seemed fine. She's never thrown up before, so I'm afraid the kombucha isn't going over well with her


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

caedmyn-I remember you saying that your DD had a bad reaction to avocados when she ate a lot of them? They are high in amines so a little bit of it may not get a reaction but a lot of it will get a reaction.

Just a thought.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
caedmyn-I remember you saying that your DD had a bad reaction to avocados when she ate a lot of them? They are high in amines so a little bit of it may not get a reaction but a lot of it will get a reaction.

Just a thought.

I'm not sure if she had a reaction to them or not, but she didn't digest them. She only ate maybe a tsp and a half of them, so I wouldn't think that's a lot, but who knows. Is squash high in amines? She seems to do okay with butternut squash. What about nuts (walnuts or almonds), or cocoa? She reacts when I eat those.


----------



## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAmama* 
Corn! Great







: Do you use SA? If you do, which brand do you use?

Honestly, I'm having the worst time finding safe Vitamin C. I heard that Phytopharmica is a safe supplier (at least, they're labeled really accurately and tell you where the ingredients come from). I'll poke around there today.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I'm not sure if she had a reaction to them or not, but she didn't digest them. She only ate maybe a tsp and a half of them, so I wouldn't think that's a lot, but who knows. Is squash high in amines? She seems to do okay with butternut squash. What about nuts (walnuts or almonds), or cocoa? She reacts when I eat those.

Butternut squash is low in amines. Any soaked, sprouted or roasted nuts are high. Only 'nut' that is low are raw cashews. Here is a short list of high amine foods you may be eating:chocolate, coconut, CO, CLO, olive oil, any aged meat (ie most beef), lemons, , limes, sauerkraut, any fermented veggie, kefir that has been brewing a long time, eggplant, tomato, avocado, spinach, cauliflower, broccoli, any fish not caught and eaten right away. Bananas too.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Butternut squash is low in amines. Any soaked, sprouted or roasted nuts are high. Only 'nut' that is low are raw cashews. Here is a short list of high amine foods you may be eating:chocolate, coconut, CO, CLO, olive oil, any aged meat (ie most beef), lemons, , limes, sauerkraut, any fermented veggie, kefir that has been brewing a long time, eggplant, tomato, avocado, spinach, cauliflower, broccoli, any fish not caught and eaten right away. Bananas too.

NM, in your reading on the amines/salicylates are you finding anything about who might be predisposed to being sensitive? Do you think it's a gut issue, one that could possibly be healed/cured with gut healing? I wonder if people who already have allergies are more prone to problems with a/s.

DD and I had red sweet peppers yesterday, and I ate some avocado last night. Her face is a bit red today and she has some red spots on her leg. I'm cutting out olive oil and using canola instead. I wonder if she'll be able to tolerate the higher a/s foods as her allergies get under control (hopefully, we're on our way to eliminating them as well as healing her gut). I have to look at Breaking the Vicious Cycle and see if any of these vegetables are listed as ones that cause gut damage, too.


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## Punchy Kaby (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
NM, in your reading on the amines/salicylates are you finding anything about who might be predisposed to being sensitive? Do you think it's a gut issue, one that could possibly be healed/cured with gut healing? I wonder if people who already have allergies are more prone to problems with a/s.

I don't know yet. Sensitivities come out in different ways in each person whether it be allergies or IBS. I never put the connection together before that my eczema and my migraines were related. I know that SCD has helped both, but SCD and I am only beginning to understand why.

I forgot to mention that strong scents of any kind have amines: perfume, essential oils, flowers.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nolansmum* 
Butternut squash is low in amines. Any soaked, sprouted or roasted nuts are high. Only 'nut' that is low are raw cashews. Here is a short list of high amine foods you may be eating:chocolate, coconut, CO, CLO, olive oil, any aged meat (ie most beef), lemons, , limes, sauerkraut, any fermented veggie, kefir that has been brewing a long time, eggplant, tomato, avocado, spinach, cauliflower, broccoli, any fish not caught and eaten right away. Bananas too.

That doesn't seem like DD's problem, then. She seems fine when she eats CO (maybe not coconut, though), CLO, and water kefirs. I eat a lot of the things on that list and the only things she seems to react to are chocolate (maybe) and coconut milk (maybe).

She reacted to something I ate last night, though--three very poopy, green, and slimy diapers since 2:30 am







I think it is wheat, but if it is she reacts differently (much more strongly) to unsoaked whole wheat than she does to things made with white flour. Has anybody else found this to be the case with their DC? I wonder if the unsoaked WW is much harder to digest and so more of it makes it into the BM. I think I don't do well with unsoaked whole wheat, either. Besides some bloating afterwards (which would probably go away if I prepared my grains properly), I've noticed a couple of times that I have phlegm (sp?) in my throat the morning after I eat something with WW flour.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Anybody have a link to a good list of gluten-containing/hidden gluten foods?


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## LovinLiviLou (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
That doesn't seem like DD's problem, then. She seems fine when she eats CO (maybe not coconut, though), CLO, and water kefirs. I eat a lot of the things on that list and the only things she seems to react to are chocolate (maybe) and coconut milk (maybe).

She reacted to something I ate last night, though--three very poopy, green, and slimy diapers since 2:30 am







I think it is wheat, but if it is she reacts differently (much more strongly) to unsoaked whole wheat than she does to things made with white flour. Has anybody else found this to be the case with their DC? I wonder if the unsoaked WW is much harder to digest and so more of it makes it into the BM. I think I don't do well with unsoaked whole wheat, either. Besides some bloating afterwards (which would probably go away if I prepared my grains properly), I've noticed a couple of times that I have phlegm (sp?) in my throat the morning after I eat something with WW flour.


I have only limited experience with it, but two times that I've cheated with white flour, dd has had very limited issues. When I cheated with ww flour, major reaction. I wasn't sure if it was a fluke or not, but thought it was interesting you found the same thing.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LovinLiviLou* 
I have only limited experience with it, but two times that I've cheated with white flour, dd has had very limited issues. When I cheated with ww flour, major reaction. I wasn't sure if it was a fluke or not, but thought it was interesting you found the same thing.


Ditto back before we knew about CD. Makes sense as there's less proteins when it is refined.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Hair test?

Who should I use to get DD tested?

Thanks.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Anyone have any idea how to treat reflux in a baby? I think DD has reflux.


----------



## sparkletruck (Dec 26, 2004)

cademyn - Im sorry about your dd







: I dont know about reflux in babies, but I think there was a thread about it somewhat recently

Question - has anyone ever heard of the idea that taking probiotics can feed yeast? I have heard this in two places, one of whom muscle tested sach. boulardi on me about 2 mos ago and said that I had too much yeast for it to be effective, it would just feed them (I needed to kill more yeast first - nice). So I havent been worrying much about prob's, then started taking some yesterday. Well, the pthese two days Ive had strong carb cravings, which I dont usually have, and my tongue is more coated, and Im a little itchy. So now Im wondering - am I feeding them or is it die off. I cant beleieve that after 5 mos I seem to be in the same place - good lord.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Anyone have any idea how to treat reflux in a baby? I think DD has reflux.

craniosacral therapy. we used it for both effectively. the three main causes of reflux are allergies, oversupply and structural problems. at this age (of your dd) I'd be looking at structural since you have dealt extensively with food issues. the two feed off each other. the more allergens you are exposed to the more your structure can shift to compensate. as your structure moves further out of whack your digestive system becomes less able to function properly. it's yet another vicious cycle.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery* 
craniosacral therapy. we used it for both effectively. the three main causes of reflux are allergies, oversupply and structural problems. at this age (of your dd) I'd be looking at structural since you have dealt extensively with food issues. the two feed off each other. the more allergens you are exposed to the more your structure can shift to compensate. as your structure moves further out of whack your digestive system becomes less able to function properly. it's yet another vicious cycle.

In DD's case it's probably allergies then. She had one craniosacral therapy session a couple of weeks ago and the therapist said she was a tiny bit "full" on one side of her head and that was it, otherwise she was fine. So I don't think it's a structural issue with her, and since she seems to be reacting to an awful lot of the things I eat lately, it's probably allergies.


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## amis2girls (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Anyone have any idea how to treat reflux in a baby? I think DD has reflux.

my 1yo as well. we're using enzymes and probiotics. might be just my imagination, but she is a lot happier this past week.

http://www.infantrefluxdisease.com/alternative.php


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## SAmama (Oct 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Honestly, I'm having the worst time finding safe Vitamin C. I heard that Phytopharmica is a safe supplier (at least, they're labeled really accurately and tell you where the ingredients come from). I'll poke around there today.

I will check that out. I also found a link on the SA thread to allergen free SA. It is http://www.nutribiotic.com/


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## RootBeerFloat (Nov 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
I think it is wheat, but if it is she reacts differently (much more strongly) to unsoaked whole wheat than she does to things made with white flour. Has anybody else found this to be the case with their DC?

Yes, my dd is like this. She has a gluten intolerance that is more mild when she eats the nasty processed stuff than when she eats the whole grain stuff. I agree with your theory, that the whole grains are harder to digest and therefore more of it "slips through," I kinda link this in my mind to leaky gut. But I don't think this makes the processed foods any more desirable to eat, they're so bad in all other ways.


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## RootBeerFloat (Nov 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
Anybody have a link to a good list of gluten-containing/hidden gluten foods?

I'm sorry that I don't, but I can tell you after living with dd's and my gluten intolerance for a year now, that if it's processed, it probably has gluten in it. If it's in a box or a bag and there's a list of ingredients, it's often a sure thing that there's gluten there unless it's labled gluten free.

We avoid processed foods as much as possible. Occasionally I'll buy bread, but only then at a hfs and gluten free specificially. Also noodles for dd, then I get a brown rice or a quiona/corn noodle. Also buckwheat is okay. You have to read lables to make sure things are safe. If I buy snacks and things for dd, I get only gluten free varieties. This gets really expensive really quick, so in a way it's a blessing because it forces us to eat whole foods.

Baking has been good for us instead of buying premade things.

As a basic starter, wheat, rye, spelt, kamut, and barley all contain gluten. Oats themselves do not contain gluten, but they are almost always processed in places where gluten-containing grains are also processed, so they're usually contaminated. Dd tolerates oats well despite this, although I try to give them in moderation. Someone with true celiac disease would get really sick just being around them, though. Rice, quiona, amaranth, and buckwheat do not contain gluten--there are others but these are the ones we use.

And RE your reflux question, it's likely an allergy. Get the gluten out of both of your systems and see if it improves. We saw a huge turnaround in dd's health once I realized it was bugging her.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Starting the first I'm going to do an elimination diet to hopefully figure out what DD is reacting to. I think she only has a wheat allergy/intolerance and not a gluten one, because I've made things with unsoaked whole grain barley flour a couple of times and she didn't have a reaction to that (that I could tell, anyway), only to the ww flour. Hopefully I'll have a better idea of exactly what she's reacting to after the elimination diet.

I'm afraid my with-holding solids from DD may make her have food aversions. She never used to be picky about textures but now if she touches something unusual or puts new textures in her mouth (banana, stuff she picks up off the floor, etc), she holds out her hand or sticks out her tongue and fusses for me to remove whatever it is she has. I made her a "cake" with mashed banana and coconut oil frosting for her birthday and she didn't even taste it, she just smeared it around on the table with her spoon. When she touched the banana she wanted it wiped off her right away.


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

we were going to be starting SCD for the new year. I even got 2 cookbooks for christmas with grain free cooking. However we have recently found out that dd has almond allergies (also other tree nuts and peanuts) and all of the grain free recipes for baked goods have almond flour. is there anything else that I can substitute and still be SCD legal?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *memory maker* 
we were going to be starting SCD for the new year. I even got 2 cookbooks for christmas with grain free cooking. However we have recently found out that dd has almond allergies (also other tree nuts and peanuts) and all of the grain free recipes for baked goods have almond flour. is there anything else that I can substitute and still be SCD legal?

I think coconut flour is SCD legal but an "advanced" food.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Carey, I think Caedmyn is right, the only nut-free sub is coconut flour, and it's advanced. You can also make homemade bean flour by dehydrating cooked SCD legal beans, but that is also an advanced food and to be used sparingly. You might try doing gluten-free first?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Honestly, I'm having the worst time finding safe Vitamin C. I heard that Phytopharmica is a safe supplier (at least, they're labeled really accurately and tell you where the ingredients come from). I'll poke around there today.

My Nutribiotic says that is non-corn, non-GMO, and hypoallergenic. I get it at Whole Foods or my local Health Food Store. You can also order it from Vitaminlife.com but it's usually on back order there. There are probably other online sources. See: http://www.nutribiotic.com/index.html


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

Caedmyn, how does your dd react when she consumes wheat? I'm just curious since my dd mostly had eczema to show for her corn and dairy allergy. She also had weird bms, and even now, they're not completely normal, but it wasn't something that correlated strongly with her ingesting her allergen.


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## Chinese Pistache (May 29, 2006)

I just filled the jars of my brand new yogurt maker with coconut yogurt and I'm SOOOO excited to see how it turns out tomorrow. Just had to share, lol!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chinese Pistache* 
Caedmyn, how does your dd react when she consumes wheat? I'm just curious since my dd mostly had eczema to show for her corn and dairy allergy. She also had weird bms, and even now, they're not completely normal, but it wasn't something that correlated strongly with her ingesting her allergen.

She's never had wheat, but when I ate it she had green poops in the middle of the night (and other times, too, but she doesn't normally poop in the middle of the night) and was very restless at night. She sometimes has eczema flare-ups because of things I eat but I don't think she did with wheat.


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## mommy2girlies (Jun 6, 2005)

Not really sure if this is the place to post this, but here goes. My dh has had ulcerative colitis 2x in ten years and always has pain in his stomach, so we've gone to the SCD. We don't follow it exactly, and I know it says you should, but his stomach aches are gone just from cutting out sugar and complex carbs. Plus we've started eating less meat and more nuts, veggies and legumes. I've also got him on probiotics. Now all of a sudden our ds has eczema on his face. Little patches on his upper lip, cheek, and the outside corner of his eye. I think its because of the dairy/sugar that I consume thats going thru the breastmilk.

We've been watching for a dairy allergy because our 1st dd had one. We breastfeed and he's only had sweet potatoes, avocado, pear and banana (then I found a website that says I should have waited w/ the banana)







: We started foods earlier than we wanted (wanted to wait till 7mos or so) but he was ready. Tongue thrust gone, sitting up by himself, grabbing stuff of our plates and opening his mouth like a little bird anytime he saw food.

Long story short, I think he has a dairy allergy and now we have thrush for the 2nd time. I read that thrush and eczema are just a symptom of digestive issues. He seems to have sour smelling spit up after I've had a larger amt of dairy. And now I've been watching my dairy, not so much eliminated yet, but Im wondering if the eczema is caused by the dairy and my sugar intake.

So my question...is Splenda ok you think. We don't eat any sweetners or artificial colors, preservatives etc. So Im not sure if it would help w/ my cutting out sugar and dairy. We're not looking to follow the SCD to the letter, but would like to eat healthier and no sugar, no dairy.

Also, does anyone have any good veggie or sugar-free/dairy free recipes or links or great cookbooks to recommend. I know about pecanbread.com.

Thanks


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

mommy2girlies--Thrush is a symptom of a yeast overgrowth. Eczema can be caused by yeast, too, or by food allergies, or by essential fatty acid deficit. Splenda's a chemical sweetener and I wouldn't use it. Stevia, while not SCD legal (but Splenda isn't either), is an herbal calorie-free sweetener you could try.

If you think dairy is causing your DS's problems, you need to eliminate it for several weeks--it takes up to 6 weeks for dairy to get out of your system. If that doesn't help or doesn't completely clear up the issues, you might want to consider a candida program with diet changes, anti-fungals or enzymes, and probiotics. The probiotics would be a good idea in any case.


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## joeysmom1729 (Sep 12, 2006)

Can I join in this thread? I have ulcerative colitis and have been on/off steroids since the beginning of 2005. I have been nursing my 9 month old son with small amounts of solids given, no grains or dairy for him yet. I am currently not eating dairy or gluten, as recommended by my nutritionist. I was in remission from my colitis from June 06 until now, but I am currently trying to heal another flare. I think this flare was caused by taking diflucan for thrush I had a few months back. Basically, both my ds and I are in major need of healing. I also just found out that I am anemic with very low iron stores and my sed rate was high at 63, so I have a lot of inflammation that I need to control. Can't wait to chat with everyone!!

Melissa


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Welcome, Melissa! Yes, it sounds like you belong here. Have you ever tried SCD for your UC?


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## joeysmom1729 (Sep 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth* 
Welcome, Melissa! Yes, it sounds like you belong here. Have you ever tried SCD for your UC?

Hi!! Glad to be here! I've attempted it at least 10 times, but I never make it more than one day. I just get too hungry, nursing seems to really burn a lot of calories for me. I've lost so much weight, I'm afraid to keep losing more, brtween my anemia and weight loss, I'm just so fatigued and weak lately.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Here's the new thread http://www.mothering.com/discussions...17#post6890617


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## mommy2girlies (Jun 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn* 
mommy2girlies--Thrush is a symptom of a yeast overgrowth. Eczema can be caused by yeast, too, or by food allergies, or by essential fatty acid deficit. Splenda's a chemical sweetener and I wouldn't use it. Stevia, while not SCD legal (but Splenda isn't either), is an herbal calorie-free sweetener you could try.

If you think dairy is causing your DS's problems, you need to eliminate it for several weeks--it takes up to 6 weeks for dairy to get out of your system. If that doesn't help or doesn't completely clear up the issues, you might want to consider a candida program with diet changes, anti-fungals or enzymes, and probiotics. The probiotics would be a good idea in any case.

Ok, so thrush is gone. I found Stevia at our local grocery store and I've been using that. But eczema is still there. I haven't gone full non dairy yet







: hard thru the holidays..And we've stopped giving him any solids. But we were really analyzing what could be the problem and we both (dh and I) recall that the eczema didn't start till after we started him on solids. So although Im pretty sure he is dairy sensitive, I don't think thats what caused the eczema, seeing as how it didn't appear earlier, before solids. So now Im only bf'ing and watching the eczema and if it disappears, we'll add solids back in one at a time. I read a good way of introducing solids. You touch their face w/ the food, then wait 4 hours for a reaction, if no reaction, you put some on their lips, wait again, etc. I think this'll be the way we do it.

Anyone have any suggestions or thoughts on what could be the cause of the eczema. its fairly mild, but I hate that he has it at all. He only ever ate either fresh or jarred (organic) sweet potato, avocado, carrot, pear. Im not sure if these foods are normal allergens. Thanks in advance

ps, Dh is doing wonderfully after we started w/ the SCD diet!!







: We're not following it to the letter (hard to make the commitment) but he's been pain free since we started!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2girlies* 
Ok, so thrush is gone. I found Stevia at our local grocery store and I've been using that. But eczema is still there. I haven't gone full non dairy yet







: hard thru the holidays..And we've stopped giving him any solids. But we were really analyzing what could be the problem and we both (dh and I) recall that the eczema didn't start till after we started him on solids. So although Im pretty sure he is dairy sensitive, I don't think thats what caused the eczema, seeing as how it didn't appear earlier, before solids. So now Im only bf'ing and watching the eczema and if it disappears, we'll add solids back in one at a time. I read a good way of introducing solids. You touch their face w/ the food, then wait 4 hours for a reaction, if no reaction, you put some on their lips, wait again, etc. I think this'll be the way we do it.

Anyone have any suggestions or thoughts on what could be the cause of the eczema. its fairly mild, but I hate that he has it at all. He only ever ate either fresh or jarred (organic) sweet potato, avocado, carrot, pear. Im not sure if these foods are normal allergens. Thanks in advance

ps, Dh is doing wonderfully after we started w/ the SCD diet!!







: We're not following it to the letter (hard to make the commitment) but he's been pain free since we started!

You can move to the Jan. thread (link is in the previous post)









My DD's eczema which had disappeared came back when she started solids. I only gave her a couple of veggies and I've taken her off solids twice since then, but she still has eczema and it's actually gotten worse. So...hopefully your experience will be different but IME there's no guarantee taking your DS off solids will help his eczema. Although I've recently discovered that my DD reacts to wheat and tree nuts as well, so maybe now that I've figured that out her eczema will finally go away.


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