# Need Advice ASAP Please



## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

I've posted before about my SS's peculiar behavior.

At this very moment, he's gone into "I don't care" mode and refuses to do anything. This started when he was asked to do his homework which is due Monday. (SS has not done homework in over a year...his counsellor is well aware of this and he literally becomes IMPOSSIBLE to deal with when he has to do anything! ie.: wash his ice cream bowl, wash his hair, or in this case - do his homework....)

My husband is calmly sitting at the table trying to talk to his son, he keeps saying "lets talkson, what's on your mind, why don't you want to do this assignment?" SS just keeps saying Don't care, not doing it, don't care about anything except my mother.

The thing is - we're not giving in this time. SS HAS to do this assignment or he fails the Semester. What should we do?!? (He says he wants to fail, he doesnt care).


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

He's 17. He's right, you can't force him to do his homework. He's almost an adult and it is not something you can control. If he fails, he'll need to deal with it. I'm wondering how he's still passing anyway if he hasn't done homework for a year...

Have you considered letting him leave school, technically homeschooling... but starting out with some time for him to kind of find himself and figure out what he cares about. If that takes him 6 months or a year, I think it would be worth it. If he finishes high school or gets a GED at 19 or 20, when he's 25 no one will care... but maybe he'll be a happier person.

dar


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## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

I just read the step parent bill of rights to myself twice. I just want to scream. I'm so frustrated.

SS refuses to do his assignment, just like he refuses to do anything else when he's asked to. He says it doesn't matter if he does his hoemwork, hes going to fail anyway. It doesn't matter that he got fired from his job, he's just going to be a hobo!

Nothing matters to this kid!!! DH is telling him that if he doesn't do his HW there will be consequences, everything in his room will dissapear until it's earned back.

He's been pissing all over my bathroom, walls, tile floor, whatever - says "there's only 1 light on the ceiling."







: Um hello....most bathrooms only have 1 light on the ceiling? He can see, he's doing this and refusing to clean it as well.

Okay fast forward a few minutes: he says he's not doing things for US but he'd do his HW for his mother. He wants to live with her. FYI: In order for SS to live with BM, BM MUST have a job and SS must pass his classes and take care of himself (no self-mutilation, etc).

Neither BM or SS are doing either of these things and SS is making our lives a living hell hoping to get kicked out. We're not kicking him out, we told him this. We love him and he's punishing US not her. GRRRRRRRRR. DH calls her (BM) and asks how SHE would handle this, she says Ï don't know? You can't make him do it."

Oh man, I just feel like running screaming. Every day it's something.


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## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

FYI: SS is 15


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## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

Dar thanks, you would think that would be a wise idea BUT..........if SS no longer goes to school he thinks hes going to sit on my couch and make a mess for me to clean up. Thats what he does now afterall! But he still takes up space in the classroom at least...







:

He basically wants to live on the streets or die. He even thinks the idea of a mental institution or jail is glamorous! This is not an exaggeration - he says this. Ï don't care if I go to jail, so what?

EVERYTHING - I don't care. What is that called? is there a name for this? He literally doesn't care about anything. (Even when his good friend died a year ago - nothing, he shrugged)


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

Well, the word you're looking for is apathy. But I don't know what to do about it. Is he in counselling of some sort? He sounds depressed and you imply that he has a history of self-mutilation...this sounds to me like a medical/mental health issue, not a discipline or academic one.


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## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Risso* 

EVERYTHING - I don't care. What is that called? is there a name for this? He literally doesn't care about anything. (Even when his good friend died a year ago - nothing, he shrugged)

That's called depression. As people keep saying over and over again. he's not a bad kid, he's screaming for help.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Does his school have a special program for underacheiving students? I know my sons school has achieve classes after school to help the kids with homework ( more along the lines of tutoring) and they have a program called SOAR for kids that are seriously not doing well and have a poor attitude towards school. I don't know what the program consists of but I think it is designed to help motivate the kids to stay in school and get the work done. Also, have you spoken to the school counselor? Are they helping you at all, if not then you can contact others in your district to light a fire under the counselors to help you, that is their job. Maybe he would respond to some peer counseling too. Alot of schools have this program as well.









Namaste,

Michelle


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## Ambrose (Apr 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Risso* 
He basically wants to live on the streets or die. *He even thinks the idea of a mental institution* or jail is *glamorous*! This is not an exaggeration - he says this. Ï don't care if I go to jail, so what?

DO IT- put him in in patient hospitalization for juvineles. He's depressed- He's begging for help here!! If he says he'd raher be there- he might very well rather be there!

This is coming from a woman who is self admitting herself to day out patent hospitalization for PPD/greif. I still need my husband to drive me there. I need him to remind me I need the help- even though I KNOW I DO. Because I just cannot say OUTLOUD that I NEED to be in the hospital recieving treatment.


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## Gendenwitha (Apr 2, 2002)

how long has this been going on, and what were his interests before this was happening? do you know if he is using drugs? if so what kind and what frequency?

random ideas passing though my head... (sort of logical thoughts falling into bits of automatic writing...)

outdoors, fresh air, away from suburbia, animals, horseback riding, fishing, whitewater rafting, fishing in order to eat dinner, art, artistic expression, job shadowing, if he wants to be hobo... "job shadow" a hobo, volunteering at homeless shelter, _lack of mom, lack of mommy-love/touch, what are eating habits--does he crave or abstain from milk (mamma-love)?_, flower remedies, what was mom like as child? what was dad like as child? do they see similarities? tarot reading... (wish I could read for him), when/how did he become apathetic--a trigger or gradual disconnecting? does he want to see the world or abandon it? when was the last time he cried? laughed? massage/_touch_, has he had medical & dental exams? _teen boy crying, boy child crying for mommy... when did mommy leave him for the first time? how many times has she left? you stop caring in order to stop hurting... simultaneously he can forgive his mother because not being with her is your fault, the same time he can test you to see how much you really care... and since mom is failing the test you can expect your tests to be long and hard,_ suicide attempts, wants to be saved from himself, you try to save him that only brings on another test, he needs to learn to save himself. question is how?

another setting might pull him out of apathy, but crying boy can't have anyone else leave him, don't send him away, don't hospitalize him, he needs _touch_, he *needs to always be near someone*, not just someone, but parental figure that loves him, can he go to work with his dad? take a semester and summer off to work with dad as intern/apprentice? what happened when he was a toddler, _why do I have this feeling like somewhere between toddler and 3 or 4 he needs to re-live and get right this time? what is supposed to happen in that time period that didn't?_


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ambrose* 
DO IT- put him in in patient hospitalization for juvineles. He's depressed- He's begging for help here!! If he says he'd raher be there- he might very well rather be there!

ITA. This level of apathy is not "normal." It's a sign of mental illness- most likely depression. He needs help- far more help than you're able to give him right now. The responsible thing to do is get him the help that he needs.

He's not being a "bad boy." He's acting out, asking for help with his actions because he doesn't know how to ask with words.


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## allycat (Apr 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Risso* 
I've posted before about my SS's peculiar behavior.

At this very moment, he's gone into "I don't care" mode and refuses to do anything. This started when he was asked to do his homework which is due Monday. (SS has not done homework in over a year...his counsellor is well aware of this and he literally becomes IMPOSSIBLE to deal with when he has to do anything! ie.: wash his ice cream bowl, wash his hair, or in this case - do his homework....)

My husband is calmly sitting at the table trying to talk to his son, he keeps saying "lets talkson, what's on your mind, why don't you want to do this assignment?" SS just keeps saying Don't care, not doing it, don't care about anything except my mother.

The thing is - we're not giving in this time. SS HAS to do this assignment or he fails the Semester. What should we do?!? (He says he wants to fail, he doesnt care).

Normally I would say 'let him fail' but....

Somehow this situation leads me to believe their are other issues with this child...why does he say,he only cares "about his mother"? School is the least of your worries.
Time to see a counsellor.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

I agree with others that he clearly is in some sort of depression. Seems he has a lot going on (mom doesn't sound like she's helping - maybe she's depressed too? family history?) and although you clearly see you and his father are doing all the "right" things, it is fairly normal for a child to favor or side with the parent who is betraying them (in this case, his mom). He loves her. He is protective of her. He is protective of his own feelings of abandonment and rejection. Admitting his mom is not acting in a loving, supportive way towards him is likely too painful for him to fully acknowledge, and it's safer for him to lash out at you (and his dad) because he knows its safe for him to do that. You won't abandon him and he knows it. He's probably not so sure mom would stick around if he acted out towards her.

I know it must feel terrible to watch him fail like he is, but I think maybe the emphasis should be on survival and mental health at this point, not academics. He sounds like he's in pretty bad emotional shape. Trying to reach him on that level may be what's called for, rather than focusing on the immediate issue of homework.








to all of you.


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## alima (Jun 16, 2006)

Has he been assessed for any neuro or psychiatric disorders? Self mutilation is a hallmark of Borderline personality disorder, I agree with other posters that he sounds depressed, but depression can be a secondary illness to other stuff. You should look up illnesses like borderline, adolescent bipolar disorder, or oppositional defiant disorder. I don't know any of your family history, but if there was a lot of difficulties in his infancy with his birth mother, he could have an attachment disorder, which would explain some oppositional defiant stuff.

When my ds was in elementary and first developing Tourette's, the school tried to deal with his behavior problems in the same reasonable way you and your husband are, by talking things out and trying to get him to talk, but this was actually the worst thing at the time for him. For ds, when he would blow up or have an "incident" (usually involving throwing his shoes, for some reason, he loved to throw his shoes, lol) he needed some time to decompress and just let his brain work through the stuff going through it at the time. Ds would often say things like "I don't care" at the time (he was much younger than your ss, though) when he just couldn't deal with something, or was embarassed or confused. Adding the whole teen stuff on top of that would not be fun.

My advice, for what it's worth (I did wind up hsing ds, for 5 years now, and it's been the best possible thing for him, totally changed his whole personality, so I'm a little biased toward hsing) is to back off on the school assignments, if he fails, he fails and he has to repeat the work, but it will give him time to work through some stuff, and to also realize that you and dh will follow through on your promises. Meanwhile, it sounds like he really needs to be evaluated by a psychiatrist or therapist. His behavior isn't normal, even for a 15yob, and the self-mutilation is a red-flag for psychiatric symptoms. Research the disorders I told you about and anything else that sounds like him, and be prepared to argue with any medical personnel who try to tell you that he's "just being a teenager"

I know it's probably not what you want to hear right now, but from experience, I know that nothing can really progress in terms of his work habits or attitude while any underlying issues are still waiting to be dealt with.

For what it's worth, I think it's great that you're willing to put the sort of work that I know you're doing in with your step son, not every step mother would be willing to put in for the long haul like you have.

Ali


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## lauraess (Mar 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gendenwitha* 
how long has this been going on, and what were his interests before this was happening? do you know if he is using drugs? if so what kind and what frequency?

random ideas passing though my head... (sort of logical thoughts falling into bits of automatic writing...)

outdoors, fresh air, away from suburbia, animals, horseback riding, fishing, whitewater rafting, fishing in order to eat dinner, art, artistic expression, job shadowing, if he wants to be hobo... "job shadow" a hobo, volunteering at homeless shelter, _lack of mom, lack of mommy-love/touch, what are eating habits--does he crave or abstain from milk (mamma-love)?_, flower remedies, what was mom like as child? what was dad like as child? do they see similarities? tarot reading... (wish I could read for him), when/how did he become apathetic--a trigger or gradual disconnecting? does he want to see the world or abandon it? when was the last time he cried? laughed? massage/_touch_, has he had medical & dental exams? _teen boy crying, boy child crying for mommy... when did mommy leave him for the first time? how many times has she left? you stop caring in order to stop hurting... simultaneously he can forgive his mother because not being with her is your fault, the same time he can test you to see how much you really care... and since mom is failing the test you can expect your tests to be long and hard,_ suicide attempts, wants to be saved from himself, you try to save him that only brings on another test, he needs to learn to save himself. question is how?

another setting might pull him out of apathy, but crying boy can't have anyone else leave him, don't send him away, don't hospitalize him, he needs _touch_, he *needs to always be near someone*, not just someone, but parental figure that loves him, can he go to work with his dad? take a semester and summer off to work with dad as intern/apprentice? what happened when he was a toddler, _why do I have this feeling like somewhere between toddler and 3 or 4 he needs to re-live and get right this time? what is supposed to happen in that time period that didn't?_


You are so right on with this! I hope this child can really get something like the help you describe in the end. I really really do.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

I wholeheartedly agree with the home schooling. With everything going on with him emotionally it really seems like overload. His work right now should be on trust building, self esteem building, and working through his emotions surrounding his mother. School assignments just don't rank that high in my book.


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## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

I'd like to thank everyone for all of the responses and help. It was much needed!









We did everything to avoid an argument with SS the other night. What it came down to was 3 choices.

1 - Do your homework.
2 - Make a list of 10 things he CARES about and clean the urine (which was about 2 hours old) all over the bathroom.
3 - Speak to a professional that night about his feelings.

SS was given three hours to make a decision. After 3 hours, he said "I don't care." We told him this was unacceptable. Either he make a decision, or Choice # 3 would be the default decision. He refused to perform either Choice 1 or 2. I wasn't going to clean the bathroom AGAIN and SS insisted that he wasn't either. And that's the way it went...Choice 3.

So we made a trip to a psychiatrist at 11 PM. After 20 minutes alone with the psychiatrist, the doctor asked to speak to me and DH. We were informed that SS showed a lot of depression and that medication should be considered. Dh and I looked at each other, we've both heard horror stories about adolescents and antidepressants (this doctor specifically mentioned Prozac). Then he wrote a referral for SS's current counsellor to perform a psychiatric evaluation.

I should note that SS has written several blogs for the past 2 months about saying hes depressed so he can get free drugs. So...this REALLY concerns me and DH. We even told the psychiatrist at the hospital about this..he said, "you should really consider it, just monitor his medication each day."







: Just way too much to absorb in one night!

So yesterday SS went to see his counsellor...The counsellor gave him an evaluation booklet which SS brought home (not sure why, but I thought that was strange). So SS tells us "he gave me this test." I told him it's not a test, it's like a survey - there's no pass or fail. But he's standing there, looking at me with drawings all over his hands, clothes, rips in his brand new clothes from Xmas and I'm thinking: who is this kid? Oh, and he pretty much said that he has no interest or intention of taking this test. We really don't want to go through another HOMEWORK catastrophe. It's like a never ending cycle. So the booklet is sitting on his dresser now.







:

Homeschooling isn't really an option for us. It's not that I don't have the time to devote to SS, it's that he refuses to open any kind of book unless it's an Archie Comic. I refuse to argue with him every day to listen, pay attention, open a book, etc. I'm not kidding he'll lay in the middle of the floor and pretend hes sleeping (like a toddler throwing a temper tantrum). As much as I love these kids, I'm not going to put myself in THAT position every day.

As far as alternative schooling, i.e. - trade schools, etc. He says he doesn't want to do anything. He doesn't want to go to school, work, nothing. When I asked what he would do if he was home every day, he said eat, sleep and play playstation.







:

I'm in a really strange position, which may sound awful...I want to help kids that want to better themselves. I'm petrified that if DH and I let him live with BM that he'll come home messed up like his older sister (who was tossed out because BM's male friend didn't like her). I'm a VERY young step parent in my mid-twenties and I really have NO intention of tending to these kids when they are in their late teens/early twenties. I'm doing everything in my power to make sure that they're somewhat self-reliant. So while school may not be the most important thing - it is to me....because I won't have anyone sleeping on my couch all day long because they lack ambition. Does that sound bizarre? Am I projecting and worrying about the future too much? Because right now I feel really pessimistic.


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## Fairy4tmama (Sep 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Risso* 
I should note that SS has written several blogs for the past 2 months about saying hes depressed so he can get free drugs. So...this REALLY concerns me and DH. We even told the psychiatrist at the hospital about this..he said, "you should really consider it, just monitor his medication each day."







: Just way too much to absorb in one night!.

This a huge red flag! this boy is screaming for help....please advocate for your stepson to get help, proxac and the like do not get you high but if he is saying stuff like this he obviously wants escapism and most teens will find a way to get it eighter through withdrawling from reality, drug use, or suicide. And even if you think its all just a plea for attention SO WHAT. People commit suicide just to get attention(not saying that is the ontly reason ppl attmept or commit just pointing out that even when it is for attention they can unfortunatly be successful).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Risso* 
So yesterday SS went to see his counsellor...The counsellor gave him an evaluation booklet which SS brought home (not sure why, but I thought that was strange). So SS tells us "he gave me this test." I told him it's not a test, it's like a survey - there's no pass or fail. But he's standing there, looking at me with drawings all over his hands, clothes, rips in his brand new clothes from Xmas and I'm thinking: who is this kid? Oh, and he pretty much said that he has no interest or intention of taking this test. We really don't want to go through another HOMEWORK catastrophe. It's like a never ending cycle. So the booklet is sitting on his dresser now.







:
.

call his counselor and explain this and if said counselor doesn't find a new way to assess ss IMEADIATLY get a new one. He needs help but that doesn't mean he is going to actively participate in getting that help.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Risso* 
I'm in a really strange position, which may sound awful...I want to help kids that want to better themselves. .

Very rarely do kids in this type of situation make it easy for others to help them, He may feel unworthy of help, he may believe that nothing WILL help, he may need you to prove that you care enough to help

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Risso* 
I'm petrified that if DH and I let him live with BM that he'll come home messed up like his older sister (who was tossed out because BM's male friend didn't like her). I'm a VERY young step parent in my mid-twenties and I really have NO intention of tending to these kids when they are in their late teens/early twenties. I'm doing everything in my power to make sure that they're somewhat self-reliant. So while school may not be the most important thing - it is to me....because I won't have anyone sleeping on my couch all day long because they lack ambition. Does that sound bizarre? Am I projecting and worrying about the future too much? Because right now I feel really pessimistic.

Regardless of how you feel you married a man who has children and those kids are not going to magicaly stop needing their father when they turn 18. You are going to have to make peace with this, because regardless of what may happen in the future those children will impact your marrige!


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## Myboysmom (Nov 19, 2001)

HUGS TO YOU!!!!!!

Please, get him some help!

The sucky part is, IMHO, psychopharmicology is at best a guessing game and crap shoot. You don't know how one "drug" will affect someone until they try it. I have been through it for almost ten years with my oldest.

Now I have been diagnosised as "bipolar" myself and it EXPLAINS SO MUCH!!!!

PM me if you want! Like I said, I have been there, AM THERE and am willing to listen!


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## Buddhamom (Jan 16, 2007)

Namaste!


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## Mamato3wild ponnie (Jan 6, 2007)

So you said he likes playstation? Get down on the floor and play it with him! Learn how to play the games he likes....go to his level and show him you care about what he cares about....This whole situation will not change until everyone realizes this is a family problem not a teenager problem. This kid is crying out for attention and he's getting attention NEGATIVE attention so he is settling for that! I know this is hard for you because he is not your biological child....but he did not ask to be put into this life/situation. Please not only get help for yourself but for your whole family. The whole family needs therapy...not just him. This kid is crying for his mother and female attention...show it to him. I have a biological son who went through this stage for about 6 months. Single mom with 3 children....he was 11 and pretty much didn't care about anything...nada...i had to stop and look at what i could do not what i could get him to do. We started going to church....got a regualr routine...used positive re-inforcement....got interested in him....ate luch at his school...sat down and helped him with his homework...maybe he doesn't like reading about Robin-Hood...or whoever....get interested in him. It worked for me. Good Luck...but do know that this is not just a teenager issue this is a whole family issue.


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## Anarkissed Mama (Oct 30, 2006)

I want to post more later, but for now I'll just say this: I am really sorry that you are having this experience w/ your ss. It is an infuriating and disheartening place to be.

Some of what I have to say may be difficult to hear, but I say it with the truest of intentions and with the belief that it may be helpful.

It is clear from your posts that you are really aggravated w/ ss and that you are having trouble feeling genuine empathy for him. This is understandable given his behavior. Since you're having trouble liking him right now I think it is a terrible idea for you to spend more time with him than you have to (i.e. homeschooling). There is a dynamic between the two of you that will not be helpful in this situation. It also sounds to me like you and your dh are relying heavily on coercion right now--doing things TO ss instead of WITH him. I have been influenced by Alfie Kohn's book "Unconditional Parenting" on this matter. Your ss deserves the opportunity to participate in the decision-making. He has a right to be heard and to have his wishes considered. The fact is that you have engaged in a power-struggle with him and so he is struggling to maintain some semblance of control over his life.

When someone shrugs when their best friend dies, something is deeply wrong. I would venture to guess that he is still grieving this loss. I also acknowledge that if someone isn't "right in the head" it can be a mistake to let them make decisions without guidance. Maybe instead of telling him he has to speak with a professional of your choice, ask him if there is an adult he trusts that he would like to talk with about stuff in his life. Let him know that his confidentiality will be respected--you won't quiz this adult about how it went. Try to let him find a safe place in his life for the expression of his grief and pain.

There is a reputable residential program in Camden, Maine that he may actually like the sound of. Here's a link: www.thecommunityschool.org

I hope some of this has been helpful. Hang in there.


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## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Buddhamom* 
If they snack between meals without permission(they have been eating us out of house and home)5.00

That is SICK and WRONG.


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## Laggie (Nov 2, 2005)

I don't mean to be rude (well okay maybe I do) but your son's counsellor sounds like a complete moron... He/she gave him a booklet? WTF? Have you talked to this supposed counsellor? It sounds like he can't deal with SS at all.

Normally I would be the last person on earth to recommend this... but I think some of the PP's are right - it sounds like it's time for some full time professional help. I've been in a psychiatric ward, involuntarily, at age 19 and for me it was a horrible experience. But hey, I never went back so I must have learned something from it!

Maybe I'm insensitive, but I could not deal with a teenager peeing all over my bathroom. And that to me is what really crosses the line between rebellion and mental illness here.

Hugs to you, I hope things improve. I'm very impressed that you haven't just lost it and kicked him out by now.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

ITA with the others- it sounds like his counselor either isn't fully aware of the situation or isn't capable of helping him. You need to either get the therapist to understand the gravity of the situation or find him another therapist. A trip to the ER might be the fastest way to get him help.


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## Buddhamom (Jan 16, 2007)

Namaste!


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
That's called depression. As people keep saying over and over again. he's not a bad kid, he's screaming for help.

Not always. My nephew is now in a group home because of burglarizing my mother's house. He is facing felony burglary charges, as well as breaking and entering. All of this, because he didn't want to do schoolwork, stay out of trouble and do a few chores around the house. I am serious.

Maybe he is not "bad", but he definitely does bad things.

My mother has had him since he was 3. (sister in jail, long story, no father in sight and we don't even know who the father is) He is now 16. The state ended up severing my sister's rights and Mom adopted him. Mom has done everything for that kid. When he started having problems in the third grade, she immediately sought counseling. They both had counseling for years. Mom made sure he was checked out physically, etc. She did her job. She did her best. She paid lots of attention to him, took him and his sister places (she was adopted by Mom too), and let them do a lot more than we ever got to do. (no, I am not resentful~just stating facts) She has to work, so they were in daycare, but she still was a very hands-on parent to those kids.

Mom tried to get help from the court system when it seemed like nothing was working and he was getting worse and more violent. They would NOT help in any way. Said since he was a juvenile, they could only put him in a group home, and there was never any room. So, my mother has had to endure him stealing her things, breaking doors and punching holes in walls, and him laying his hands on her. Refusing to get up and go to school. Refusing to do schoolwork or any chores in the house. He fully expects to be waited on his whole life and have people financially support him. He has said this to me. He feels he is "owed". He also tried to have her arrested by lying about her hitting him. Nice. He has told her repeatedly that he will have her put in jail and HE will take her house. I informed him that if that happened, then he would not get her house, because then he will have to deal with me. And while I am not talking physical punishment of course, I am not as easy-going and tolerant of shenanigans like my mother is.

I have talked to him, and so has everyone in our family. I have told him that I agree it stinks that his mother is how she is, but there comes a time where you cannot blame others for how you act. You just cannot do that. At 16, he is old enough to take responsibility for his own actions.

So, since the system did nothing, because he was a juvie and has all of these "rights", he decided to run away before Thanksgiving. Mom could not find him. She went out of town for Christmas and he broke into the house, with two other people, stole TVs, Dvd Players, a computer, and over $3000. worth of jewelry. He was seen by the neighbor coming out with things, so we know he and his friends did it. He was arrested and now is in a group home awaiting court. Mom says he cannot come back. I do not blame her. She loves him, but he is 16 and is not going to change. How much is a parent supposed to take? Should she wait until he attacks her and possibly kills her? He also told her he hopes she dies because he wants her house. Of course, my mother has a will, so that is NOT going to happen. He lived with us last year for a few months and got so unbearable, we had to send him home. I have 3 children and he was trying to hurt my oldest when my oldest would get on his nerves. Not going to happen.

I blame my nephew first of all. But, I also blame the "system". They put all of these laws in place so kids cannot be held responsible, even if they rob people, unless you really push it. Short of murder, in KY, kids can do what they want, with rarely any consequences. Mom got him help, saw counselors, and did the whole thing. Nothing worked. Nothing.

He actually called her after the burglary and told her it was HER fault that he broke in because he felt that she owed him money to live on. Mind you, he had been gone for over a month, nowhere to be found. But, my mother was just supposed to give him money to live elsewhere. Yeah. He feels totally justified in what he did. He also claims he took nothing, and it was ALL his friend's doing. Of course, that doesn't matter, since he was there. They also left food and crap all over the house and even put syrup on my mom's bed before stealing her jewelry. They even took her wedding set from her now-deceased second husband and her high school ring. Thankfully, she gave me her first wedding set from when she married my dad, or it would be gone too.

I love my nephew, but I find him to be despicable. I think that he appreciates nothing and I don't want to see him at this time. The thing is, Mom and everyone else TRIED to answer his "cries for help". He doesn't want help, he wants a free ride for life. He wants to control mom and every other female. He even told Mom to leave her own house. He thinks he is Boss.

Any other suggestions? We are fresh out.


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## Buddhamom (Jan 16, 2007)

Namaste!


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Buddhamom* 
TinkerBelle, My heart goes out to you and your family! WOW, that's a tough one. What about a restraining order to protect your Mom. Maybe this would make it so he is forced to support himself. It's hard because you never want to alienate family, but your Mom's safety shouldn't be compromised either. If he is threatening to say she abuses him than she needs to document everything.


Oh this is the end. She will not allow him back into the house and she is pushing for the prosecution for the burglary. She wants him to FINALLY be held responsible for his actions. Hopefully, the system will do it's job and he will do some time in a juvie facility, or be put somewhere where he has no freedom. I know this sounds harsh to some on here maybe, but it has been a living hell with this kid.

She documents everything. His threats have proved useless. He is digging his own hole as we speak.

I am just sad that it had to come to all of this. Over schoolwork, a few chores and acting like a decent human being. Not perfection.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Risso* 
Homeschooling isn't really an option for us. It's not that I don't have the time to devote to SS, it's that he refuses to open any kind of book unless it's an Archie Comic. I refuse to argue with him every day to listen, pay attention, open a book, etc. I'm not kidding he'll lay in the middle of the floor and pretend hes sleeping (like a toddler throwing a temper tantrum). As much as I love these kids, I'm not going to put myself in THAT position every day.

As far as alternative schooling, i.e. - trade schools, etc. He says he doesn't want to do anything. He doesn't want to go to school, work, nothing. When I asked what he would do if he was home every day, he said eat, sleep and play playstation.







:

Honestly....

Do you really believe that taking a few months "off" school in order to get well is going to ruin his life?

I would take him out of school and let him deschool for awhile. He obviously is not in a good place right now, mentally. School is the least of his worries.

A friend of mine just went through an ugly separation, a second-trimester miscarriage, a move, and a suicide attempt. She's not employed right now because she needs time to heal.

Quote:

They can and do buy ALL the snacks they want, having a snack is not the issue as long as THEY buy their own snacks. But either buying them with their own money or having to pay us when they dig into something that was intended for a meal (i.e a bag of Morningstar meal starter) they are learning respect for the value of food. We do NOT make them pay for meals as food is a right, not a priveledge. However, snacks are not a necessity.








:

I soooo disagree with this.









Three meals a day are often not enough for growing people, whether they be toddlers, children, or ravenous teenagers. Maybe if you provided some nutritious snacks for your kids, they wouldn't be eating your meal ingredients as a snack.

IMO, you're setting yourself up for rebellion, sneakiness, and resentment.


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## Buddhamom (Jan 16, 2007)

Namaste!


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## DoctorGirlfriend (Dec 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Buddhamom* 
And they *are* allowed a snack, all they have to do is ask so we can verify that it is a snack food (i.e fruit, fruit leather) and that they haven't already woofed down something in the car on the way home from school.

So if they already had something to eat in the car, they can't have another snack? What if they're still hungry?


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
Do you really believe that taking a few months "off" school in order to get well is going to ruin his life?

I would take him out of school and let him deschool for awhile. He obviously is not in a good place right now, mentally. School is the least of his worries.


ITA


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## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Buddhamom* 
talk de jour, just curious why you think that is wrong? They can and do buy ALL the snacks they want, having a snack is not the issue as long as THEY buy their own snacks. But either buying them with their own money or having to pay us when they dig into something that was intended for a meal (i.e a bag of Morningstar meal starter) they are learning respect for the value of food. We do NOT make them pay for meals as food is a right, not a priveledge. However, snacks are not a necessity.

It is hard to help a teen that doesn't want help or just can't see that they need help. I agree with the PP about the ER. Maybe it will be a break from life they need to see the picture better.

First, it is YOUR responsibility as a parent to feed your children. No child should have to pay for his or her food instead of being able to walk into the kitchen and eat something.

Second, yes, snacks ARE a necessity and a right. Three meals a day are not enough for 90% of people -- and indeed, not eating for long periods of time is unhealthy unless one is sleeping.

Third, it is embarrassing to a child to have to ASK for food when s/he is old enough to procure and make it him or herself. Food police... not very AP







:


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## onlyboys (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Buddhamom* 
talk de jour, just curious why you think that is wrong? They can and do buy ALL the snacks they want, having a snack is not the issue as long as THEY buy their own snacks. But either buying them with their own money or having to pay us when they dig into something that was intended for a meal (i.e a bag of Morningstar meal starter) they are learning respect for the value of food. We do NOT make them pay for meals as food is a right, not a priveledge. However, snacks are not a necessity.

It is hard to help a teen that doesn't want help or just can't see that they need help. I agree with the PP about the ER. Maybe it will be a break from life they need to see the picture better.

I had a step mom who made me buy my own food when I was a teenager. It's not nice. It's not right. Recondsider.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Buddhamom* 
They were choosing to eat the garbage they buy as well as a whole bag of vegan crumbles in one sitting instead of making mindful choices. When I say *they* have to buy snacks, I mean if it is something I am not offering as I do NOT buy junk food.

That wasn't made clear in your earlier posts. You said "snacks." Not everybody thinks snacks = junk food. A yogurt is a snack. Carrot sticks are a snack. The way I see it, anything that's not a "meal" is a snack, whether it's junk food or not.

You made it sound as though you provide meals for your children and no other foods.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

Buddhamom, just wanted to lend a little support. I have a teen at home, so I know how it can be with them and food. We provide/offer healthy snacks and if he doesn't like them, too bad. If he had his way, he would go through 10 bags of chips and a big bottle of hershey's syrup (for choc milk) every week. Ummmm... no. He will ask for chips, and if say no, have some carrots, fruit, etc, suddenly he's no longer hungry. Imagine that.







Our teen has no job (so no $ of his own) so we don't do thinks exactly the same way, but I completely understand why you limit snacks the way you do.


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## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

Why would you even keep chips and chocolate syrup in the house if they're not to be eaten?







:


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## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

BTW, a large part of my bulimia as an adolescent stemmed from the fact that my much older brother was in charge of babysitting me as a kid, and wouldn't allow me or my brother to snack. Imagine that........


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *talk de jour* 
Why would you even keep chips and chocolate syrup in the house if they're not to be eaten?







:

If you must know, because he has a HIGHLY restricted diet due to a rare genetic disorder. He is limited to a total of 10 grams of protein a day, and his doctor (head of genetics at UCSF) recommends making sure those 10 grams of protein also are as high in calories & fat as possible. Chips are a staple in his diet because while they may not be the most healthy choice for a normal child's diet, they meet all his dietary requirements: low protein, high fat & calories.

But that doesn't mean he gets to live on chips. He gets a limited amount of them.

And the hershey's syrup is in the house because he uses it to mask the NASTY taste of the 30 oz liquid dietary supplement he has to drink EVERY DAY.

But aside from that, we believe some junk food in moderation is okay from time to time. Just because we have it in the house does not mean the children get to have it any time they want to. That's a reasonable life lesson for them, I think.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *talk de jour* 
BTW, a large part of my bulimia as an adolescent stemmed from the fact that my much older brother was in charge of babysitting me as a kid, and wouldn't allow me or my brother to snack. Imagine that........

I've very sorry to hear you had this experience.

But do you see that that's not what's happening or being condoned here?


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## littlemizflava (Oct 8, 2006)

sorry to say this that is just how my nephew is started when he was 14 and he is now almost 20 and he is still the same way think it is just their mind set and no one can change it untill they want to change there is nothing to do is wait and hope sorry


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## talk de jour (Apr 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamameg* 
I've very sorry to hear you had this experience.

But do you see that that's not what's happening or being condoned here?

That's EXACTLY what's happening, and it makes me absolutely SICK and disgusted that people who consider themselves "AP" can't see the harm they're inflicting in the name of "good." How sad.







:


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

What part of "we aren't withholdng food, but withholding certain TYPES of food" is unclear to you?

And don't "how sad" me.







You know not of what you speak. I live my life, my REAL life, the one that includes my special needs child, not some AP label.


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## Buddhamom (Jan 16, 2007)

mamameg, I tried to PM you but your mail box is full


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

Oops, sorry! Fixed it.


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## Anarkissed Mama (Oct 30, 2006)

:


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## SleeplessMommy (Jul 16, 2005)

Any update?

Get him on the meds already.







: A supervised dose of Prozac every day is not going to hurt him. You can get the rx from his pediatrician.

And has he been evaluated for ADD or other learning disabilities?


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Risso, sorry to jump on this thread so late, but is there an update?? Curious about how he is doing.

I also wanted to ask you more about this:

Quote:

Okay fast forward a few minutes: he says he's not doing things for US but he'd do his HW for his mother. He wants to live with her. FYI: In order for SS to live with BM, BM MUST have a job and SS must pass his classes and take care of himself (no self-mutilation, etc)
This seems really key to me. He has stated quite clearly why he is behaving this way, and what his conditions are for improving himself. It seems like there ought to be some good way to make use of this information!

Who has placed the conditions on living with his mom? Is it your husband's set of conditions, or court ordered, or what? Why not just let him go?

Have both his natural parents sat down togeter in order to process the situation, and talk about a plan for getting on the same page? Is this even a possibility? Can his mother be asked to influence him in some way?


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## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

Hey everyone, I wish I had more of a positive update. But things are pretty much the same. SS still has his BASC-2 questionaire on his dresser because he couldn't get an appt. with his counsellor until the 8th (despite the urgency we stressed to the counsellor).







:

Mamaduck - as far as living with BM goes, those were the conditions set between BM and DH. She felt she would "be ready" for her son in June. So far, she's still unemployed, SS still doesn't have a bedroom there, and well... we suspect her boyfriend just lost his job too.

Otherwise, BM and DH both agreed that SS had to stay in school (regardless of where he was living). So yeah, SS wants out now - but it's really not a possibility. Our primary concern is making sure that he has a food in his stomach and a bed to lay his head on if he moves there. Apparently BM has an air mattress in a utility closet right now for him? (Yikes, I know).

All 3 kids are staying at BM's for a week for winter break. I hope all goes well, but when she has all 3 - she usually calls saying she can't handle them and drops them off a day or two after she takes them.

I'm just hoping things go smoothly...


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

Lock the bathroom door from the outside and have him pee in the backyard unless he cleans up the pee he puts on the floor and walls himself. That (the pee) is abusive to you, plain and simple. He SAYS he doesn't care about anything but he sure cares a lot about hurting you and insulting you. And I would have removed the PS2 and "stripped" his room a long time ago.

This child sounds dangerous, to be honest. He sounds profoundly manipulative, whether he's depressed or not. I'd let him go live with the bio mom. You say you don't want him "ruined" but it can't get much worse than this.

Exactly what kind of self-mutilation does he do, and when is the last time he did it?


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## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

he was cutting/burning his stomach/chest area. His father and I have been pulling razors, knives and tools out of his bookbag/coat/pants/etc for the past month. My bedroom is starting to look like a garage from hiding things.


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

How severely was he cutting and burning? Do you take him ot the ER when he self-harms? Because that might have him kept as an inpatient for a while.

He might be a depressed teenager, but he could also be a sociopath with no conscience. That's the scary part, to me. Be careful mama







.


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## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

Meowee - Enough that it was noticable when he removed his shirt, but nothing that required immediate medical attention.

When asked why he did it, he says he does it because "I like the way it feels." We haven't noticed any marks on his body as of late - but on ocassion he'll push staples, pins, paperclips etc - through his skin. He opened an old earing hole this way a little over a month ago, now he's doing it on his hands/palms.

I keep reading over and over about school not being the most important thing. I agree completely, but--school is the only thing that SS semi-applies himself to. By this I mean, he gets up and goes everyday. It's the only thing that SS is doing that seems semi-productive. He does have friends there (I think thats the only thing that keeps him going). But he's cutting classes, failing most of his subjects (not by 1 or 2 points, we're talking about 20' & 40's), teachers comment that he's been given ample opportunities to hand in late assignments etc, - he just says NO.


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## daniedb (Aug 8, 2004)

Cutting (self-multilation), as well as the burning, is another sign of a severely depressed individual. Most people will describe that the reason they cut is because they feel so dead inside that the only way they can even tell that they're alive is to inflict pain and feel that pain to connect to the world.

This may sound harsh, but I believe that, from all your posts, your SS is in a severe clinical depression, one that can very easily lead to his death, either by his own hand or by being reckless in a car, or another way of exiting the world. You're finding self-inflicted wounds on him, knives in his bag, he's telling you that he doesn't care about anything, and yet he is still going without help and support. This poor kid is crying out, in every way he knows how to, for someone to help him feel better and to keep him from hurting himself. He's only going to give you so many warnings before he makes it happen. I hope that you get him the help that he needs before he decides he's had enough. Please do whatever you have to do to get him the help he needs. Mental health professionals can be immensely frustrating, and it is up to the caregiver to push and push and push until the patient gets help. Please hear him...he is telling you he wants to die, and no one is hearing him. How much more worthless is that making him feel, can you even imagine?

I will be praying fervently for him, and for your family.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Risso* 
....school is the only thing that SS semi-applies himself to. By this I mean, he gets up and goes everyday. It's the only thing that SS is doing that seems semi-productive. He does have friends there (I think thats the only thing that keeps him going). But he's cutting classes, failing most of his subjects (not by 1 or 2 points, we're talking about 20' & 40's), teachers comment that he's been given ample opportunities to hand in late assignments etc, - he just says NO.

I think that being an emotionally stable and content individual is far more "productive" (as pertains to living life) than doing busywork at school.

What do you value more? Straight A's and self-mutilation, or mediocre-to-lousy grades and a healthy self-esteem?

Obviously, he's only willing to attend school because the small amount of socializing he gets is distracting him from whatever pain he's in. It doesn't seem like he's there to learn anything.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daniedb* 
This may sound harsh, but I believe that, from all your posts, your SS is in a severe clinical depression, one that can very easily lead to his death, either by his own hand or by being reckless in a car, or another way of exiting the world. You're finding self-inflicted wounds on him, knives in his bag, he's telling you that he doesn't care about anything, and yet he is still going without help and support. This poor kid is crying out, in every way he knows how to, for someone to help him feel better and to keep him from hurting himself. He's only going to give you so many warnings before he makes it happen. I hope that you get him the help that he needs before he decides he's had enough. *Please do whatever you have to do to get him the help he needs. Mental health professionals can be immensely frustrating, and it is up to the caregiver to push and push and push until the patient gets help. Please hear him...he is telling you he wants to die, and no one is hearing him. How much more worthless is that making him feel, can you even imagine?*

I will be praying fervently for him, and for your family.

ITA, I don't think this child is getting the care he needs.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

This boy needs HELP. Professional, mental health care help. Not a one time visit to a psychiatrist, or a counselor not willing to pursue solutions. Ongoing help from a competent child psychiatrist.










I was a depressed onwards from the age of 12. I wasn't in your face about it, and so I was ignored rather than labeled a bad kid, but I engaged in some self-injuring behaviors and I wanted to die. My mother didn't really believe in mental illnesses or in getting help, so I was left to suffer. I believed there was something wrong with me, that it was all my fault.

I wish someone had cared enough to insist I got help, and YES to pursue medication. Psychiatric medications are hit and miss, and it is true that there is a risk of bad reactions. But at what point is the risk worth it? At what point do you realize that the boy's life as it is now is hell?

He doesn't "lack motivation." He is depressed. Why should he care about school? School isn't going to make him feel better. In his experience thus far, nothing makes him feel better, and he's given up hope.

I know he's a pain in the *ss to deal with, but he's hurting and he doesn't know how to help himself. I feel for you as the stepmother, I know it can't be pleasant. But he isn't going to change unless he gets some relief from his anguish.


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## Spirit Dancer (Dec 11, 2006)

HI. I do not have a teenager but I was one myself not very long ago. I also went through a period where I was very angry, depressed, apathetic and very rebellious towards my parents. I was really hurting inside but firmly resloved not to let anyone see it. However, I cried a lot when no one was around. It started when I was 15 and reached its peak when I was 17 and had dropped out of school. It was at 17 that I decided to commit suicide because I no longer wanted to live. It was not really a cry for help anymore at this point (I had been silently crying out for help before this) - I just wanted to die. The biggest thing that I remember at this point is that I felt that there was no purpose or hope for me to live for. So I watched how my dad loaded his gun and where he hid it and decided to kill myself.

THe reason I bring this all up is becuase minus the cutting part your ss situation seems to mirror what mine was at his age. I was NOT a bad kid just so hurt, lost and hopeless. During this time my parents where doing pretty much what you are doing. They tried to get me to clean the house and do homework. It would end with me screaming at them or just silently refusing to do it. When they tried to force me to do these things in my mind I (falsely) thought they did not really care about "me" they just wanted the surface things to go smooth. School was not the issue at all. It was a mere cover-up over the reall problems. My parents really loved me they just did not get the real issues.

THe reason I wrote all this personal stuff is to show you that I am 100% sure the issue here is not pee in the bathroom or schoolwork but something much deeper and much more serious. (I honestly do not think he is a bad kid either) PLEASE GET HIM SOME HELP- not from some incompetant school counselor either. What you should do I cannot tell you but talk with your DH and get the ball rolling ASAP.

PS I am not blaming you for issues. If I had not experienced this myself I am sure I would be doing what you are doing. Good for you for still wanting to help him out after all he is doing.









PPS I case you are wondering I "turned out" really well. I am now married and have my own baby and if i may say so am quite a nice person. What it took for me personally to get out of all the above mess was to have an amazing spiritual encouter with Jesus Christ. HE healed my heart and gave me a reason to live. All the best to you and your family.


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## daniedb (Aug 8, 2004)

Any update, Risso? I can't get your family out of my mind.


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## MaryLang (Jun 18, 2004)

Have you offered the option of homeschooling to him until he is under control? At this age it might be a decision he can have a part of. As everyone else has said, he sounds severly depressed. He must be going through a lot right now. I mean hes apart from his BM, has a SM, maybe he is still adjusting to you a little? Maybe he is having problems with kids in school too? He needs to know where he fits in- in life. It sounds like this kid needs lots of compassion, even though he is making your life so complicated right now. Maybe he feels so out of control. It wouldn't hurt to just let things go for a couple of weeks (his peeing, ect...) and just really try to get in touch with him. Even though he is connected to his BM in a strong way, you did marry his dad, and as hard as it can be he needs to know you love him as you would your own Bio-kids, IMO thats just what you do when you marry someone with kids of of their own. I'm so sorry your family is going through this and I hope your son heals soon.


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## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

I'm not trying to be argumentative - I appreciate everyone's responses & sharing of their own personal experiences. However, I feel like SS is giving up on a lot of things, school would just be another one of those things?

Quote:

2tadpoles: What do you value more? Straight A's and self-mutilation, or mediocre-to-lousy grades and a healthy self-esteem?
I don't think that dropping out is going to save him from self-mutilation or depression. If anything, I think it would make him more depressed - as he'll lack the daily social interaction with peers that he's had all his life. I know that all kids aren't GOOD at school, but this isn't a matter of being good or bad - he's not applying himself because he "doesn't care." It's the CARE that concerns us. I mean, if he was TRYING and failing - that's a different story.

Like everyone else - I feel like SS is crying out for help. But at the same time he says that he's very happy with the way he is - he doesn't have a problem EVERYONE else does. He hurts himself for "shock value" and because he's "emo." He says this...and a moment later he says that he hates to be labled.








:

He's told DH and I that he doesn't talk to his counsellor. He just sits there. Because, he says, he doesn't have any issues. EVERYONE ELSE does. He has another appt. on the 8th.

I read one of his posts on an adult anarchist website recently and it chilled me to the bone: "why the f**k is every one just standing around?
what the hell is wrong with us we are alway's complaining about how the goverment has f**ked us up over and over again (even tho this is true) yet we never do anything about it..i say its time we do it ...i gusse now is not the time to act but rather then act plan it so that when the time come's we know what were doing"

That's just a little insight into the kind of creepy stuff I find on his blogs and public forums. I'm starting to feel like I have a Columbine kid under my roof.


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## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

Marylang - I'm not completely against homeschooling. The only concern I have is that SS would protest against doing any school work. On some night's I deal with a 6'1" kid that rebels against showering. I'm not up for another challenge right now.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

To my way of thinking, "school work" is just *not* important in the face of all the other issues at hand.

The material which is covered in school certainly doesn't take 13 years to learn. Taking several months or even a year off of school is not likely to harm the education of someone who is already flunking out.


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## kdinu (Nov 22, 2006)

I'm not sure if this will help but I'll try. I'm the same age as your son and I might be able to relate. I went through the same thing for a couple years and my mom was to depressed for me to worry her about it.

It's a form of depression, or at least it felt like it for me, and I would fall 'in' and 'out' of it. The advice I can give is try to get some of his friends to help. Many parents in my area talk to each other and other kids to sort out the problem. My mother and my friend's mother talked with me to help sort out an atitude problem one of my friends had. So far it's working and she's getting better.

It might also have to do with who your son hangs out with. Friends are a big influence and when you have one that dosen't care it spreads. He might feel as if noone understands him and try to withdrawl from feeling. I know I tried and I suceeded to the point where I really didn't care. I even became suicidal to a point. I couldn't kill my self because I was too afraid to go through with it, but it was a passing thought.

But please, whatever you do don't homeschool him! I dislike school as much as the next kid but I understand the reason for it. Without school I never would have gotten over it, whatever it was. I was perfectly content to not care and just forget people. I didn't want to socialize. But school forces you to deal with people whether you like it or not. If you homeschool him he will never learn how to deal with other people. TO live in society you must be able to deal with people in a professional manner even if you dislike or are not in a good mood.

If you have any questions or if anything else comes up feel free to talk to me.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kdinu* 
If you homeschool him he will never learn how to deal with other people.

This is incorrect on so many levels.
















:

Amazing how people learned how to deal with other people for thousands and thousands of years prior to the invention of schools. Incredible that the very people who organized the Revolutionary War and wrote our Constitution were largely educated outside of schools.


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## kdinu (Nov 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
This is incorrect on so many levels.
















:

Amazing how people learned how to deal with other people for thousands and thousands of years prior to the invention of schools. Incredible that the very people who organized the Revolutionary War and wrote our Constitution were largely educated outside of schools.

Hmm I never really though of that. It must have to do with the area I live in. Over the years many of my friends have been homeschooled only to return to public school a year or two later. Their reason for returning was and I quote "I never got to talk to anyone and I was bored a lot".

But as I said it was probably my area since our county all goes to one highschool and we don't have any meeting places except for a bunch of small stores and resturants. We don't really have a place for kids to have fun, school is where we do that.


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## MaryLang (Jun 18, 2004)

I was homeschooled and had too many friends to count, but I think it has a lot to do with personalities. I have a 13 year old brother, when he got to about 5th grade he wanted to go to school (was always homeschooled), my mom let him, this way he would get a taste of both, he was in school until through his 7th grade year, always on the honor role, great student, but decided he wanted to be homeschooled again. So he is and he loves it, he still has many friends, not really from school, but just kids he meets in the neighborhood, and connects to. So heres a kid who got to sample both ways, he didn't like the materialism in schools (smart kid







, well he just decided it wasn't a good learning enviroment for him. I think my mother was wise to let him be involved in his education decisions.


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## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

Kdinu, thank you.

2tadpoles, I live in VERY rural Canada. I'm sure that's a big part of the problem. SS doesn't socialize OUTSIDE of a school setting. He doesn't have many friends. In fact, the 2 good friends he had kind of abandoned him because he was shoving compasses through his hands in school and lighting matches in their kitchens.

Now I'm curious. If he were to take a year off from school and he refused any type of learning instruction....how would he find himself? I'm actually interested. In March SS (will turn 16) has the right to refuse counselling should he so choose (which I'm sure is very likely). So, if he's indoors 24-7 without any forms of socialization, please englighten me--how will this help him find himself?

I'm not pro-school or anti-homeschool. I just know that it's 2007 and without that piece of paper - jobs options are pretty darn limited. He's struggling now. I don't want to see him struggle for the rest of his life.


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## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

Homeschooling works when the child wants to learn. If the child doesn't want to learn - what do you do with them?


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Risso* 
So, if he's indoors 24-7 without any forms of socialization, please englighten me--how will this help him find himself?

Why do you think that homeschoolers are indoors 24/7 with no way of socializing? Also, do you not think that interacting with family members is socializing?

I dare say that if he's shoving compasses through his hands, his options are going to be limited even with a diploma.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kdinu*
Over the years many of my friends have been homeschooled only to return to public school a year or two later. Their reason for returning was and I quote "I never got to talk to anyone and I was bored a lot".

I think it can be difficult for kids to learn how to make friends outside of school, if they've always been in school. I also think that the parents of these kids have always depended upon the school setting to provide friends for their kids.....so they're just as clueless as the kids are.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Risso*
Homeschooling works when the child wants to learn. If the child doesn't want to learn - what do you do with them?

All people want to learn. We're born ready to learn. It's just that not all of us want to be "taught." There are millions of things in the world to learn about....why should the government decide which handful of topics are important to know?


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## kdinu (Nov 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2tadpoles* 
I think it can be difficult for kids to learn how to make friends outside of school, if they've always been in school. I also think that the parents of these kids have always depended upon the school setting to provide friends for their kids.....so they're just as clueless as the kids are.

There isn't any other setting to hang out in. I think you don't understand that the closest person to me lives 6 miles away, and they're older people. Because of the area I live in I socialize with adults more than kids my age, and that effects the way I act. I call my friends all the time and they come over occasionally. Most of my time was and still is spent running through the woods. I live in a very rural area and my house is surrounded by a state park on 3 sides. There isn't anywhere to meet people. Yes, we have parties, we go swim in the creek, we have campouts, but the only place we can meet people is if someone else we know introduces us. We can't just go out for a walk down the street and meet people on the way. We don't even have sidewalks!
My county is just woods, small pockets of houses, and large farms.

Terribly sorry Risso it seems I've gotten slightly off topic. I'm glad I could supply advice!


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## siennasmom (Mar 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Risso* 
Kdinu, thank you.
In fact, the 2 good friends he had kind of abandoned him because he was shoving compasses through his hands in school and lighting matches in their kitchens.

This kid needs to be evaluated by a mental health professional ASAP. He sounds like he may need in-patient treatment at this point. This is not normal behavior. I was depressed as hell as a teen and I didn't do half the stuff you're describing. He needs a lot of help and he needs it starting immediately. If he can refuse treatment in March then you need to get him in before he can refuse.


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## jazzharmony (Nov 10, 2006)

Send him to his mother's house if that is where he wants to be. He sounds desperate to be with his mother







Discuss with her the fact that his life may be in danger and certainly his health is. Wherever there is a bed for him it will do. I have a feeling he doesn't care if he sleeps on an inflatable mattress or not. Let this child be with his mother. I seriously hope you are not preventing him from living with her as some sort of punishment because that would be cruel and achieve nothing but making him more unstable.
How sad.


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## Cherie2 (Sep 27, 2006)

Take a look at this article in Mothering:
A Rekindled Heart: Helping the Needy Stokes a Teen's Soul
By Jennifer Meyer
Issue 121, Nov/Dec 2003
http://www.mothering.com/community_t...led-heart.html

I understand this approach is just not a possibility for everyone but I really like the idea.

Also have your seen the book by Grace Lewellyn "Teenage Liberation Handbook"?
http://www.lowryhousepublishers.com/...onHandbook.htm

I have been reading this thread with interest, I myself have a daughter who is struggling emotionally, I don't have answers for you but these two publications have given me much inspiration.


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## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

Quote:

2tadpoles: Why do you think that homeschoolers are indoors 24/7 with no way of socializing? Also, do you not think that interacting with family members is socializing?
I don't think that!







: But I live in the middle of nowhere. Who is he going to talk to other than us, a tree? He gets bussed to school every day. There are no children around us. VERY RURAL Canada, like I said. Yes, family interaction is a form of being social. But he hates his siblings and wishes one of them dead on a daily basis - doesn't sound healthy , does it? My hands are very full with three teenagers who are all unique. I'm just trying to keep the peace in my household.

Quote:

2tadpoles: I dare say that if he's shoving compasses through his hands, his options are going to be limited even with a diploma.
This was a pretty nasty thing to say. I've read a few of your other posts in different threads. Public school didn't work in your favor - that's fine. I take it you were homeschooled? Fine, once again. Even if I attempt homeschooling SS, his BM will not continue this pattern should he decide to live with her (providing she has a job) this coming summer. Then what?

Quote:

kdinu: Terribly sorry Risso it seems I've gotten slightly off topic. I'm glad I could supply advice!
You didn't really get off topic. I don't have sidewalks, public transportation, or anything cool around my home either. So I know exactly what you're talking about.









Quote:

Jazzharmony: I seriously hope you are not preventing him from living with her as some sort of punishment
No she's an unemployed substance abuser that shacks up with different men every few months. Prostitution? Maybe. She's been unemployed for over 6 months, was depending on a guy to feed the kids when they went for visits, and she insisted that my teenage SD (14) sleep in the middle of her and the new boyfriend (who SD only met once before).

BM needs a job, a steady income, and a healthy living environment. She says she doesn't want SS right now because she isn't ready (a sigh of relief, at least she realizes she isn't prepared at this time). She told SS that she'll be ready by June. But she told me that if he behaves this way and her current beau doesn't like it - hes on his own.







: Nice, huh?


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## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

Cherie2, someone else reccommended that book to me as well. I've added it to my Amazon list, thank you! I'm about to read the article right now.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Risso* 
This was a pretty nasty thing to say. I've read a few of your other posts in different threads. Public school didn't work in your favor - that's fine. I take it you were homeschooled? Fine, once again.

No, I wasn't homeschooled. I went to public schools, and my dad was a public school teacher.

My comment wasn't nasty.....it was honest. You're worried about a diploma when the kid is cutting himself up and playing with fire? Chatting on anarchy websites? Openly wishing his sibling dead, refusing to attend class or do schoolwork, refusing to shower, and peeing all over your house? Do you really think that a piece of paper is going to get him ahead in life when all these others issues exist?

Several other posters have already stated that he needs serious help. You appear to be in denial. If he were my son, I would admit him to a pediatric psychiatric facility. You started this thread with a reference to the young man's "peculiar behavior." Let me just say that his behavior goes _way_ beyond "peculiar." He sounds like a danger to himself and others, and as I said before, school work is the least of his (or your) worries at this point. It sounds to me like you want to _control_ him rather than actually _help_ him.

I will bow out of this thread now and you may have the last word. Peace.


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## Risso (Dec 17, 2006)

Quote:

It sounds to me like you want to control him rather than actually help him.
I DO want to help him! That's the problem. I don't want to control him! I just don't see the correlation between education and mental health.

I DO understand the seriousness of SS's situation and it's escalating. I'm not in denial, I'm trying to act on it. As a step parent, I can only do so much! He has a birth mother that obviously doesn't give a sh*t about him, otherwise she'd inquire about his counselling, talk to him about mutilation, something! No interest!!!

He has a father that works VERY hard to make sure that our family of 5 has a roof over our head....but as a result, he doesn't "see" everything that's going on with his son.

I have one stepdaughter that hates her mother and is in counselling because BM kicked her out in the middle of the night last year and now I have a SS that wants to live with a women that's ready to kick him out before he's even walked through her door (if her boyfriend doesn't get along with him).

I've called his counsellor several time to discuss mutilation, weapons, crazy blog entries, etc - but SS sends his "representative" to the counsellor and says his life is great, his relationship with his siblings are good, etc - and it's obviously B.S!! It's really DH and my word against his.

The night I started this thread, we took him to the ER to see a phsychiatrist. Once again, SS smiled, said everything was great. The pshyiatrist made a referral for pshyiatric avaulation and all he got was a booklet from this counsellor.

I called the psychiatrist we saw from the ER and he advised me NOT to change counsellors because SS may feel LESS comfortable with a different counsellor and quit going alltogether.

I'm here because I don't know what to do.







I don't want to kick him out or push him on an unstable woman (his mother) that doesn't have the ability to financially support herself, let alone a child.

Everyone's telling me to get the kid help, I'm trying, he's not opening up with anyone - he thinks he's fine. Obviously he's NOT fine.

You're right - this is beyond grades and academics. If I sound hostile, that isn't the intention - I'm just really stressed out.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

You may be completely right about the unsuitability of having him live with his mother. But humor me for a minute. He's fifteen, right??? And not a young fifteen either -- he is savvy enought so size people up, get what he wants out of a situation, play nice when he has to, etc. So -- what is the worst possible case scenerio, if he moved in with his mom? If she threw him out, could you and DH be there to welcome him home again? If something potentially traumatic were to occur, would he handle it?

I'm thinking that the crap he is pulling is not going to change until he gets what he wants. When he gets it, and its not what he really wants...... what then?

The door could be/ would be always open at your home -- and it might well be a short excursion, followed by a prodigal boy who is singing a slightly different tune. Or -- maybe it coule work out okay. Stranger things have happened.

Or maybe not -- maybe it would really mess him up. And I understand that is the risk. But realistically, how much longer before he can just take of anyway??


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

I don't think he should be pulled out and homeschooled, I just do not think that would be beneficial for him. At least not from anything that has posted here so far. And I'm very pro HS, my dd is 17 and has been HS'd her whole life, But I don't think the problems he has will be improved by HSing him.

I agree with a previous poster that he might need in-patient treatment.


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

I apologize, since I did not read all the prior posts. But from what I've read, I really believe in-patient treatment is your best option. I read you saying that the phychiatrist suggested depression medication, and I also read about your apprehensions. I think you're right on. If he's in a hospital/treatment facility, he can be monitored by professionals until he is stable.

Perhaps you can talk to his school about him taking a hiatus for medical reasons?

Hugs to you and your family.


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## hugosmoma (Nov 19, 2001)

Risso,
I feel deeply for you. This is such a difficult situation. I think that it means the world what you are doing, have done, continue to do. Your stepchildren are lucky you are in their lives.


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## jazzharmony (Nov 10, 2006)

I still say let him go to his mother. Things can't get much worse than they already are and it doesn't seem that you really have a choice.

Are your other children safe in your home with him? You mentioned him wishing one of them dead. Are you able to protect them physically and emotionally, from all of this?

I am so sorry - what a difficult and heart breaking situation for everyone involved.


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## Laggie (Nov 2, 2005)

It's so tiresome how every thread about a kid in school gets derailed by homeschoolers.

As for the psych in the ER - I am very surprised that they didn't treat this as serious. I was involuntarily committed at age 18 for being suicidal, so I know firsthand that they CAN force it on you. (this was without my parents being involved at all, they didn't even know I was in the hospital)

It sounds like the counsellor doesn't believe you? That's so strange... On the other hand, I'm not sure if they CAN commit somebody if they don't admit to wanting to harm themselves. I know that in my case, they let me out as soon as I promised that I didn't want to do that anymore. Which wasn't really true - well, it was true in that I was so scared of being sent back there I wouldn't do anything like that again, but not true in that I was still severely depressed and it took me years to get past it.

Is it at all an option for you to make some phone calls to inpatient programs in the nearest city and see if he can be admitted to one? Maybe you will find somebody who can help? Or people who deal with mental health advocacy for teens? Maybe they have resources that you aren't being directed to due to the psychiatrist.

Did he have any visible self-mutilation cuts or anything at the hospital? I probably shouldn't say this, but I wonder if the psychiatrist just thinks you are the 'evil stepmother' trying to keep this kid from living with his mom. I know that, as a stepmom, school officials and such are often extremely rude to me, just rolling their eyes when I try to talk to them.

I'm so sorry you are going through this - I can't imagine... It's unfortunate that it seems you are left to hope he will either start to grow up and grow out of it; or do something bad enough to get the attention of the psychiatrist.


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

I am a homeschooler and I definitely would NOT homeschool this kid. He says he doesn't care about anything, but as I've said elsewhere, he clearlycares a lot about manipulating, hurting, and pushing everyone around him. It shouldn't be tolerated... this mama is being abused by her SS.


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## Terabith (Mar 10, 2006)

Try the ER again? Different psychiatrist? Is your dh on board with how serious this is? It sounds like the counselor is not taking him seriously. Print out the anarchy web sites and blog entries and take them to the hospital. Tell them you're scared of another Columbine kid.


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## pranamama (Nov 6, 2002)

I am hoping something is working. I have teen issues of my own and am looking for help also.


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## Shenjall (Sep 14, 2002)

Quote:

Did he have any visible self-mutilation cuts or anything at the hospital? I probably shouldn't say this, but I wonder if the psychiatrist just thinks you are the 'evil stepmother' trying to keep this kid from living with his mom. I know that, as a stepmom, school officials and such are often extremely rude to me, just rolling their eyes when I try to talk to them.
Oh yeah, been there, done that. My ds has behavioural issues, serious, dangerous ones. When I tried to get him some help, they always said, "oh. you're remarried? He's having trouble with his stepfather. Thats all". Ummm no. No one listened once they heard, "blended family".









Sorry, OT.

Risso, what city are you closest to? I'm in Winnipeg and have some experience dealing with the pediatric mental health system. If you're close, I can give you some names and numbers.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I'm currently HSing one of my children (so I'm certainly supportive of homeschooling!) but I don't think it would work well for this particular teenager at this particular time. He needs more structure, not less, and the stepmom isn't able to provide it for him.

I don't think sending him to his bio-mom is really a solution here- I think he's saying it because he knows it isn't going to happen and he just wants to frustrate his dad and stepmom. It's just another way that he's lashing out.

It sounds like his counselor isnt' taking him seriously and the ER wasn't able to help because he wasn't "urgent" enough to meet their criteria. I don't see how anything short of inpatient treatment is really going to help him at this point. If you can't get him admitted via the ER, then find out how you CAN get him admitted, or if there's another facility other than a regular hospital that would be a better choice for him.


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## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

Getting proper treatment for any illness often means finding the right doctor. I practically had to beat down doors to find a doc that would take my reports of illness seriously - turns out I had cancer. If I hadn't been extremely aggressive I would not have gotten a diagnosis.

It is even harder to get proper treatment for a psychiatric disorder. You and your husband need to knock on every door you can find until you find someone who can get this kid proper treatment. It really sounds like medication and intensive counseling are in order. If you find a doctor who is willing to medicate and monitor closely than take advantage of it.


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