# alcohol and breastfeeding



## mclisa (Jul 26, 2004)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31524267...womens_health/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31524267...womens_health/


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

the link didn't work for me, but I'm interested in reading the article!


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Link doesn't work. Is this the article on the woman that got charged for breastfeeding her 6 week old while "intoxicated"? (I only put it in quotes because they didn't actually test her BAC)


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## chase_mommy (Nov 11, 2007)

I was slightly annoyed with that article, for more than one reason.


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## FondestBianca (May 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chase_mommy* 
I was slightly annoyed with that article, for more than one reason.

The article I read was pretty short and to the point. Maybe we were reading a different article since the link doesn't work. What was it that was bothering you about it? Was something about the story or sentencing annoying you?


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## chase_mommy (Nov 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FondestBianca* 
The article I read was pretty short and to the point. Maybe we were reading a different article since the link doesn't work. What was it that was bothering you about it? Was something about the story or sentencing annoying you?

I'm pretty sure we read the same or a similar article. It was on my AOL or Yahoo page.

I was bothered with the lack of information in the article. Breastfeeding is already looked down on and I just feel this is just another negative thing an uneducated person could cling to. You never know, that mother could have been having A drink when that police officer arrived. Then on the other hand she could have truly been intoxicated and had no business breastfeeding at that time. I think if that was that case (truly intoxicated) it should had stated about her failing a breathalyser test or something. I, personally, don't drink but I do know of mothers who have a glass of wine from time to time and then nurse their LO's. There is nothing wrong with a drink here and there, IMHO but there is no doubt in my mind there are some mothers (after reading/seeing that article) who second guessing having a drink. I just don't think that article was written in best way that it could have, more information should have been provided or not written at all. Of course, I am not a huge fan of the media, they like to pick and choose what they use to write about to paint the picture they want you to see and it may not always be the correct one. So really, just the lack of information annoyed me.


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

The mom should have never been bothered. It's her choice. Bottom line.

Regarding BFing and drinking. Why would a mom strive to have a drug free delivery, eat as healthy as possible to ensure the best nutrition, and then drink alcohol, a known toxin, which in a small quantity will pass through to the baby? Even a small amount is too much IMO. I don't understand. Makes no sense to me.


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## FondestBianca (May 9, 2008)

this is where I think personal rights should really go out the window. I'm glad shes in a heap of trouble. One drink or 5, bad choice. I don't care if its a glass of wine or 5 shots of hard alcohol... same offence. I'm pretty extreme when it comes to alcohol. I don't think it should be legal for anyone, of any age. But, giving an unknowning INFANT booze..... what the heck is wrong with people!?!?!?

Normally I stay low key on the issues but this one is my hot button. I better stop now while I can still restrain myself.


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## PatioGardener (Aug 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShwarmaQueen* 
then drink alcohol, a known toxin, which in a small quantity will pass through to the baby?


Quote:


Originally Posted by *FondestBianca* 
I don't care if its a glass of wine or 5 shots of hard alcohol... same offence. I'm pretty extreme when it comes to alcohol. I don't think it should be legal for anyone, of any age. But, giving an unknowning INFANT booze..... what the heck is wrong with people!?!?!?

But breastfeeding after or while drinking alcohol _doesn't_ pass dangerous amounts on to baby. Mama's breastmilk will be the same alcohol content as her blood, which even after drinking enough to make Mama pass out, will still have an alcohol content lower than non-alcoholic beer.

The bigger issuse by far is drunk parenting.


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## kiara7 (Feb 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FondestBianca* 
this is where I think personal rights should really go out the window. I'm glad shes in a heap of trouble. One drink or 5, bad choice. I don't care if its a glass of wine or 5 shots of hard alcohol... same offence. I'm pretty extreme when it comes to alcohol. I don't think it should be legal for anyone, of any age. *But, giving an unknowning INFANT booze..... what the heck is wrong with people!?!?!?*

Normally I stay low key on the issues but this one is my hot button. I better stop now while I can still restrain myself.


I didn't read anywhere that the mother GAVE her child BOOZE?????


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## taramoon13 (Apr 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PatioGardener* 
But breastfeeding after or while drinking alcohol _doesn't_ pass dangerous amounts on to baby. Mama's breastmilk will be the same alcohol content as her blood, which even after drinking enough to make Mama pass out, will still have an alcohol content lower than non-alcoholic beer.

The bigger issuse by far is drunk parenting.

well said! i think we are confusing drinking while pregnant and drinking while BF'ing which are 2 totally different issues.


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## mclisa (Jul 26, 2004)

Police officers who responded to a domestic disturbance call at Anvarinia's home on April 13 say they saw an intoxicated Anvarinia breast feeding.

from the article

The alcohol will pass to breast milk. If she was intoxicated (not sure how much), but if you are stumbling drunk...I don't think that is a safe level that will be in your breast milk.


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## FondestBianca (May 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PatioGardener* 
But breastfeeding after or while drinking alcohol _doesn't_ pass dangerous amounts on to baby. Mama's breastmilk will be the same alcohol content as her blood, which even after drinking enough to make Mama pass out, will still have an alcohol content lower than non-alcoholic beer.

The bigger issuse by far is drunk parenting.

yes, her drunk parenting is no small issue. agreed. Any alcohol knowingly given to a baby simply because mom wanted to have a little fun, relax a bit, or in this case, get totally wasted is pretty sad.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kiara7* 
I didn't read anywhere that the mother GAVE her child BOOZE?????

breastfeeding while intoxicated IS giving your child alcohol. Just because she didn't hold the bottle up to the baby's mouth and pour it down doesn't mean she isn't guilty of giving a child alcohol IMO.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *taramoon13* 
well said! i think we are confusing drinking while pregnant and drinking while BF'ing which are 2 totally different issues.

I'm not confusing the two. I think they are seperate issue, yes... and different as well but, IMO both are irresponsible and dare I say, immoral... IMO.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

I don't really drink but I would not think it was wrong for a mother to have a beer while she is a nursing mom.


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## somanyjoys (Mar 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShwarmaQueen* 
Regarding BFing and drinking. Why would a mom strive to have a drug free delivery, eat as healthy as possible to ensure the best nutrition, and then drink alcohol, a known toxin, which in a small quantity will pass through to the baby? Even a small amount is too much IMO. I don't understand. Makes no sense to me.









Well, honestly, I did not have a drug free birth, so I can't fully comment on this. I just want to make clear that BAC relates to the level of alcohol in the mom's milk, so if a mom is enjoying alcohol in moderation, baby is not getting much alcohol at all. I follow the rule, if you can drive, you can breastfeed.

Other cultures do not abstain from MODERATE alcohol consumption during pregnancy like we do in the US. I know I allowed myself a half glass of wine at celebrations during my pregnancy (as did my OB herself.) I nurse my babies for 2+ years. I have no problem with drinking in moderation during that time.

The issue with drinking to excess is not *breastfeeding. It is *parenting. If you are drunk, how can you safely care for your infant?

I think what has happened to this mom and baby is horrible! I don't know the full story, but from the little I know, she should not have been arrested, IMHO.


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Just as so many other things in our culture, drinking while breastfeeding seems to be acceptable because it is widely done. But again I ask, why would a mom strive to have a drug-free pregnancy/delivery, excellent nutrition, but then knowingly give her child a toxin? Yes it's accepted and *probably* ok, but that still doesn't change the fact that she's willingly putting poison into her infant for her own pleasure.


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## FondestBianca (May 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShwarmaQueen* 
Yes it's accepted and *probably* ok, but that still doesn't change the fact that she's willingly putting poison into her infant for her own pleasure.

bingo!

why not relax with, have fun because of, or indulge in something that isn't alcohol and won't have any effect on your baby??? Furthermore, addictive chemicals given to baby through breastmilk *could* (pay close attention to the "could". I haven't done a lengthy scientific study on this so don't quote me as calling a theory a fact. I'm not stating it as fact) contribute to problems down the road. If your body (purely your body and not your thought or emotion) begin to crave the effects of a chemical and are continued to be indugled for a long span of time (like during the breastfeedng duration) a person might be more likely to have instant cravings and addictive tendencies toward those chemicals when introduced again later on like in the teen years when many kids experiement with alcohol or even later in the early 20's. Why would anyone want to take the tiniest, smallest, most minute risk of something like that for a few minutes of brain numbing or a taste in your mouth?

that boggles my mind


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## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Youngfrankenstein* 
I don't really drink but I would not think it was wrong for a mother to have a beer while she is a nursing mom.

Good thing, because I am guilty of exactly that on more then one occassion.

I dont think I could even tolerate more then one beer or one glass of wine, but once in a while, I will allow myself one, especially now that it is summer. ALchohol gets a bad rap, IMO, because it is way to easy to abuse.


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## mclisa (Jul 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Youngfrankenstein* 
I don't really drink but I would not think it was wrong for a mother to have a beer while she is a nursing mom.

A beer is not intoxication.

I see nothing wrong with having one beer/one glass of wine while breast feeding. It's if you are wasted that I have an issue.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

I agree, mclisa, but a pp said she felt is was "IMO both are irresponsible and dare I say, immoral... IMO." (to have a drink either while pregnant or a nursing mom)

That is why I posted what I did.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShwarmaQueen* 
Just as so many other things in our culture, drinking while breastfeeding seems to be acceptable because it is widely done. But again I ask, why would a mom strive to have a drug-free pregnancy/delivery, excellent nutrition, but then knowingly give her child a toxin? Yes it's accepted and *probably* ok, but that still doesn't change the fact that she's willingly putting poison into her infant for her own pleasure.

I worked hard to achieve a drug-free pregnancy/delivery, try hard to eat well, etc... and yes, I have a beer now and then with supper and breastfeed. Why? For starters, moderate alcohol consumption has been such a common (and sometimes important) part of so many cultures, for so long that I'm just as comfortable drinking a beer with supper as I am eating supper. It doesn't matter what ingredient you look at, you will find somebody saying it is "toxic", but in most cases it's only really toxic when eaten in large quantities, and beer has been in common use for a lot longer than some of the other things I eat, like kiwis or canola, so the health risks and benefits are reasonably well established. Secondly, I simply enjoy trying out the different flavours. I enjoy beer, and mostly buy microbrews, trying different ones frequently.

Considering that people are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, the prosecutors should have been forced to prove that the mother's level of alcohol consumption was actually affecting her baby. Did they even bother to test the baby's BAC, or even the mother's milk alcohol level? Chances are the child received less alcohol from her milk than it would have gotten from over the counter cough medicine, or vitamine drops.


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## Heba (Sep 24, 2004)

It strikes me that the disadvantages of formula feeding outweigh those of breastfeeding while drinking. Good decision on the part of the mother? Probably not. An arrestable offence? Not in my opinion.


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## spicyrock (Apr 11, 2009)

You know what really pushes my buttons? Judgmental people who think they have some sort of monopoly on morality.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a drink here and there while you are in a nursing relationship. I have a glass of wine fairly regularly- with the approval of my family physician, my midwife, and my pediatrician- and my daughter is exceptionally bright and alert, happy and healthy. She has met all of her milestones early- some of them, very early. I'm fairly sure she benefits from having a mom who isn't too uptight about life.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spicyrock* 
You know what really pushes my buttons? Judgmental people who think they have some sort of monopoly on morality.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a drink here and there while you are in a nursing relationship. I have a glass of wine fairly regularly- with the approval of my family physician, my midwife, and my pediatrician- and my daughter is exceptionally bright and alert, happy and healthy. She has met all of her milestones early- some of them, very early. *I'm fairly sure she benefits from having a mom who isn't too uptight about life.*









:


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## ShwarmaQueen (Mar 28, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heba* 
Good decision on the part of the mother? Probably not. An arrestable offence? Not in my opinion.

I agree. It's not something I would chose, but it's not something she should have been arrested for either.







It was probably torture for her BFing infant to be away from her while she was in jail.


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## Jesskathand (Dec 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spicyrock* 
You know what really pushes my buttons? Judgmental people who think they have some sort of monopoly on morality.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a drink here and there while you are in a nursing relationship. I have a glass of wine fairly regularly- with the approval of my family physician, my midwife, and my pediatrician- and my daughter is exceptionally bright and alert, happy and healthy. She has met all of her milestones early- some of them, very early. I'm fairly sure she benefits from having a mom who isn't too uptight about life.


another







:


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mclisa* 

The alcohol will pass to breast milk. If she was intoxicated (not sure how much), but if you are stumbling drunk...I don't think that is a safe level that will be in your breast milk.

How much passes into your breastmilk is debatable by resource. Some sources say it's equal to your bac, the more scientific sources I've seen say it's about 3% of your bac.

So, if you're legally drunk with a bac of 0.08%, it's either 0.08% or 0.0024%.

The FDA allows up to 0.5% in most juices (since fruits may start to ferment when crushed) and I have seen there's an exception for up to 0.8% in apple juice.


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## Magali (Jun 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PatioGardener* 
But breastfeeding after or while drinking alcohol _doesn't_ pass dangerous amounts on to baby. Mama's breastmilk will be the same alcohol content as her blood, which even after drinking enough to make Mama pass out, will still have an alcohol content lower than non-alcoholic beer.

The bigger issuse by far is drunk parenting.

This. And wow to pp who said that drinking alcohol (in moderation) and bfing is irresponsible and immoral







. Just WOW.


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## LadyCatherine185 (Aug 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spicyrock* 
You know what really pushes my buttons? Judgmental people who think they have some sort of monopoly on morality.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a drink here and there while you are in a nursing relationship. I have a glass of wine fairly regularly- with the approval of my family physician, my midwife, and my pediatrician- and my daughter is exceptionally bright and alert, happy and healthy. She has met all of her milestones early- some of them, very early. I'm fairly sure she benefits from having a mom who isn't too uptight about life.









:

especially when it is based on opinion and not fact. the research says it is ok, that only a MINUTE amount of alcohol gets through your breastmilk.

I'm sorry but after a long week of dealing with my intense, high needs, non-sleeping baby, I NEED A GLASS OF WINE!


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FondestBianca* 
IMO both are irresponsible and dare I say, immoral... IMO.

So is it irresponsible and immoral to give your child apple juice? Cough syrup? An peach that's a little over-ripe? Where do we draw the line? At what point, in your not-so-humble-OPINION, are these things no longer a punishable offense?


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## kiara7 (Feb 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spicyrock* 
You know what really pushes my buttons? Judgmental people who think they have some sort of monopoly on morality.










:

It may be some people's personal opinion that no amount of alcohol is ever ok. But if we are going to be passing judgment, let's look at FACTS of alcohol amounts in breastmilk and not fantasy.


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## PatioGardener (Aug 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cschick* 
How much passes into your breastmilk is debatable by resource. Some sources say it's equal to your bac, the more scientific sources I've seen say it's about 3% of your bac.

Please pass on any sources you have! I've only seen it compared to the same level as blood alcohol, so I'd really like to read anything that says it is even less. (Either way as you pointed out, it is a small, small amount that is transfered to breastmilk.)


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cschick* 
How much passes into your breastmilk is debatable by resource. Some sources say it's equal to your bac, the more scientific sources I've seen say it's about 3% of your bac.

So, if you're legally drunk with a bac of 0.08%, it's either 0.08% or 0.0024%.

The FDA allows up to 0.5% in most juices (since fruits may start to ferment when crushed) and I have seen there's an exception for up to 0.8% in apple juice.

Exactly. It's not like we're talking about giving a baby some booze in a bottle. All through history people have had at least some alcohol in their diet, bf or not. I don't see how having a beer makes you a bad person or kills your kid.


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## FondestBianca (May 9, 2008)

I'll end my commenting by simply saying that I feel as strongly about alcohol use like many feel about things like CIO, spanking, circ, elective formula feeding, vax, gender role assigning, etc. Not that some (most) of the things I just listed don't rub me the wrong way either but, alcohol just happens to be an issue I have a very strong, deep seeded, unforgiving opinion about.

Usually I stand down and cool it so others don't feel judged, jumped on, or simply so people don't see me in the wrong light as an across the board judgemental kind of person (really I'm not) BUT, when it comes ot this I don't typically spare feelings. Why? Because I find some opinions on the matter so selfish, dangerous, and an overall unwillingness to do anything that seperates one from a useless vice.

To me this is not the same as cough syrup for a sick child (which honestly I don't use anyway), accidently feeding a child a overly ripe piece of fruit, or giving a child a spoonful of uncooked cookie dough with vanillia extract in it. This is drinking for pleasure and making your child do the same as a result.

On this single issue I happen to be an extremist. Despite the negative effect it would have on the economy, the confusion it would cause in the justice system, and the problems it would cause with your average indivual I'd happily make recreational alcohol use completely illegal.

I won't be talked out of my opinion. Honestly, don't you think that by now I've heard every single arguement out there? I'm almost certain I have, and none of it has come close to changing the way I feel about it in my heart. It's a very serious matter that hits very close to home... so yah, I'm sorta sensative about it. For those annoyed at My judgement, imagine how I feel at light being made of an issue so important to me. I think we're even and I'm over it.

ETA: and as far as facts go... I'm pretty sure opinions are perfectly acceptable to add to discussion forums online. And for the record I did make clear it was my opionion. In fact, I made it so clear that people even quoted and poked fun at my perhaps overuse of "IMO". But, I figured that no matter how much I made sure to state this is purely my opinion and I'm well aware is an extreme, uncommon, opinion, that someone would pull the fact card. Again, I'm not baseing the way I feel in my gut on some random study that leans toward the answer the funders prefer.


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## taramoon13 (Apr 17, 2008)

i agree with pp's that a glass of wine or a beer while bf'ing is acceptable and even normal in many cultures. getting drunk and bf'ing or taking care of your child is unsafe and irresponsible. everything gets ruined because it gets taken to an extreme. kids in france drink watered down wine with meals at a young age, people in this country freak about it because there's no sense of moderation.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FondestBianca* 
On this single issue I happen to be an extremist. Despite the negative effect it would have on the economy, the confusion it would cause in the justice system, and the problems it would cause with your average indivual I'd happily make recreational alcohol use completely illegal.

They tried that once. Didn't turn out so hot.


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## apple_juice (Apr 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spicyrock* 
You know what really pushes my buttons? Judgmental people who think they have some sort of monopoly on morality.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a drink here and there while you are in a nursing relationship. I have a glass of wine fairly regularly- with the approval of my family physician, my midwife, and my pediatrician- and my daughter is exceptionally bright and alert, happy and healthy. She has met all of her milestones early- some of them, very early. I'm fairly sure she benefits from having a mom who isn't too uptight about life.

Eotallly with you on this. My LC was the one to give me the goahead to have soe wine. Dr. Jack Newman also says a glass or even "gasp" two of wine is perfectly acceptable.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *frontierpsych* 
They tried that once. Didn't turn out so hot.

















PLEASE, let's go back to the days of prohibition. That will solve all the alcohol abuse.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spicyrock* 
You know what really pushes my buttons? Judgmental people who think they have some sort of monopoly on morality.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a drink here and there while you are in a nursing relationship. I have a glass of wine fairly regularly- with the approval of my family physician, my midwife, and my pediatrician- and my daughter is exceptionally bright and alert, happy and healthy. She has met all of her milestones early- some of them, very early. I'm fairly sure she benefits from having a mom who isn't too uptight about life.
























the big issue is that she was drunk and caring for an infant, not that she was intoxicating said infant with her breastmilk. alcohol doesn't pass into breastmilk enough to harm a nursling, not even if mom is drunk. the mom need not have been arrested for what she did, but she needs to realize that being wasted is a dangerous way to parent, and maybe get some help with that if she needs it.


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## Amila (Apr 4, 2006)

I think if I didn't enjoy a glass or two of wine a few times a week I would go MAD! If you can drive you can nurse, IMO.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Jack Newman

Quote:

Reasonable alcohol intake should not be discouraged at all. As is the case with most drugs, very little alcohol comes out in the milk. The mother can take some alcohol and continue breastfeeding as she normally does. Prohibiting alcohol is another way we make life unnecessarily restrictive for nursing mothers.
Thomas Hale

Quote:

Significant amounts of alcohol are secreted into breastmilk although it is not considered harmful to the infant if the amount and duration are limited. The absolute amount of alcohol transferred into milk is generally low. Beer, but not ethanol, has been reported in a number of studies to stimulate prolactin levels and breastmilk production (1, 2, 3). Thus it is presumed that the polysaccharide from barley may be the prolactin-stimulating component of beer (4). Non-alcoholic beer is equally effective.
http://www.llli.org/FAQ/alcohol.html


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 







PLEASE, let's go back to the days of prohibition. That will solve all the alcohol abuse.









Yeah, but then we'd all have to wear breast-flattening undergarments to give our flapper dresses the right look, excepting those who are naturally less endowed. And some of us will get mastitis if we do that. Can we pick another era? I could dig a poodle skirt.


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## nerdymom (Mar 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spicyrock* 
You know what really pushes my buttons? Judgmental people who think they have some sort of monopoly on morality.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a drink here and there while you are in a nursing relationship. I have a glass of wine fairly regularly- with the approval of my family physician, my midwife, and my pediatrician- and my daughter is exceptionally bright and alert, happy and healthy. She has met all of her milestones early- some of them, very early. I'm fairly sure she benefits from having a mom who isn't too uptight about life.









:

I think in our culture we tend to go to extremes, when so often moderation is what is needed.


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## kriket (Nov 25, 2007)

i'm annoyed how vague this article is. DH said something about it yesterday and i thought he just didn't know details.

i'm remaining annoyed how the media seems to have it out for BFing. its like we hear about every irresponsible mother in the US so people can go "see see SEE? Are you drunk? you should ff just in case you get drunk, its safer and safety of a child is paramount and i am the grey area moral police"


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## Jesskathand (Dec 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abimommy* 
Jack Newman

Thomas Hale

http://www.llli.org/FAQ/alcohol.html

Thank you!!!


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
Yeah, but then we'd all have to wear breast-flattening undergarments to give our flapper dresses the right look, excepting those who are naturally less endowed. And some of us will get mastitis if we do that. Can we pick another era? I could dig a poodle skirt.









I think the 50s clothing would be a lot more flattering than flapper gear for me. My rear would not fit in a flapper skirt









I think a big reason prohibition failed badly is because alcohol is really easy to make. I could make some right now (er..I do have moldy bread..my husband didn't look at it when he bought it. Ick!) with stuff I have in my kitchen.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShwarmaQueen* 
The mom should have never been bothered. It's her choice. Bottom line.

Regarding BFing and drinking. Why would a mom strive to have a drug free delivery, eat as healthy as possible to ensure the best nutrition, and then drink alcohol, a known toxin, which in a small quantity will pass through to the baby? Even a small amount is too much IMO. I don't understand. Makes no sense to me.









I drink wine. A glass, never more, and usually after a feeding so as little as possible will go through. I also drink coffee! But I never get drunk. (I mean, I was once drunk, once in my life, it was awful, but I do not get drunk NOW.)

I think this is a bizarre case, because it doesn't say how drunk she was. I mean, over the legal limit? Is it illegal to take care of children while drunk? If so, that's the real problem. I too think this is a bad precedent.

Will they start arresting people on anti-depressants while breastfeeding?

Who's to say that if I couldn't have a glass of wine every other night, I wouldn't be on two or three pills a day? (In my opinion, the pleasure involved in ingesting the wine and chocolate or cheese makes it worth at least five times the dosage of a pill with supposedly similar doping capacity.)

Quote:

On this single issue I happen to be an extremist. Despite the negative effect it would have on the economy, the confusion it would cause in the justice system, and the problems it would cause with your average indivual I'd happily make recreational alcohol use completely illegal.
Well, pass the dutchie right along, then! Sheeesh, one bad experience and the rest of us have to suffer.

Though, prohibition and the roaring twenties wouldn't be SO bad. Except for the lack of the Internet, oh, and the pervasive mafia influence due to their monopoly on the alcohol trade.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abimommy* 

I think a big reason prohibition failed badly is because alcohol is really easy to make.











That, and it was legal to produce, buy, sell, and trade in EVERY OTHER COUNTRY outside of the Muslim world. Kind of like outlawing pot 20 miles from Vancouver, B.C. or right next to the border with the Netherlands.

I mean _really_.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

FondestBianca said:


> ETA: and as far as facts go... I'm pretty sure opinions are perfectly acceptable to add to discussion forums online. And for the record I did make clear it was my opionion. In fact, I made it so clear that people even quoted and poked fun at my perhaps overuse of "IMO". QUOTE]
> 
> Please do not think that I was in any way making fun of you! I truly was not. I was only quoting you when someone asked why I wrote what I wrote. Although we disagree, your opinion is perfectly valid. I drink maybe 1 drink a year so I'm not coming from a "man, I need a drink" perspective.


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## BlueStateMama (Apr 12, 2004)

Quote:

breastfeeding while intoxicated IS giving your child alcohol. Just because she didn't hold the bottle up to the baby's mouth and pour it down doesn't mean she isn't guilty of giving a child alcohol IMO.
I disagree.

Quote:

In general, if you are sober enough to drive, you are sober enough to breastfeed. Less than 2% of the alcohol consumed by the mother reaches her blood and milk. Alcohol peaks in mom's blood and milk approximately 1/2-1 hour after drinking (but there is considerable variation from person to person, depending upon how much food was eaten in the same time period, mom's body weight and percentage of body fat, etc.). Alcohol does not accumulate in breastmilk, but leaves the milk as it leaves the blood; so when your blood alcohol levels are back down, so are your milk alcohol levels.
http://kellymom.com/health/lifestyle/alcohol.html

I don't buy the hysteria about a mom having a few drinks (I would watch it with a newborn, under 3 months and I think mom shouldn't have more than 1 drink, and time it..)

More Hale:

Quote:

I generally suggest it is ok to breastfeed after one, maybe two regular drinks (not supersized).

Or the mom can wait for about 3-4 hours following her last ingested drink, or just wait until she is sober.

Remember alcohol passes into and OUT of milk as a function of maternal plasma level. Thus as the mom's level drops, so do the levels in milk.

This all means that if the mom does not have high levels of alcohol in her blood, then her milk is not likely to have high levels either.

My concern would be impairment from alcohol and a mom's ability to care for baby. But I think the "ZOMG, if you have a glass of wine you're hurting the baby!" attitudes impact breastfeeding in a really negative way. Women think "Hmm, unless I wean I can't have my life back." I remember Denise Richards saying that she weaned her DD because she wanted to have a cocktail now and then again.

That case linked in the OP scares me - I don't know enough detail to know if legal intervention was warranted, but the precedent it sets and the slippery slope implications make me shudder.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

I also think North Americans are crazy about this issue. Mom's in Europe have no problem with it - mind you, they often drink moderately during pregnancy too.

It struck me in the article that there was more going on than was said. I think domestic situations can be tricky for police, especially with a baby involved.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BlueStateMama* 
That case linked in the OP scares me - I don't know enough detail to know if legal intervention was warranted, but the precedent it sets and the slippery slope implications make me shudder.

I don't drink for unrelated medical reasons, but this is why these discussions drive me crazy. I have heard lots of moms say they either weaned early or didn't bf in the first place because they like a drink now and then. And I'd say, "Well unless you get rip-roaring drunk, it's fine to drink and bf." And they generally say something like, "Really? I wish someone had told me." But all they have to go off is garbage like this article. There's like some crazy urban legend out there that if you drink a normal amount of alcohol, your baby will get drunk, and that is just plain not true. Not supported by science in the least, and I've seen moms drink and bf at the same time at events and their babies didn't act any differently so not supported by my anecdotes either.


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## princesstutu (Jul 17, 2007)

Funny how a mom who has a drink while pregnant or nursing is poisoning her child, but companies who pollute our air and water...where's the indignation over that? Seriously, there are bigger fish to fry.

I first read about this story in April. What pissed me off was that the police were called for a DV issue and didn't arrest the man (who was beating the woman), but arrested the intoxicated mother, who committed *no* crime.

If I'd just gotten my butt beaten by the man I loved, I might have had a drink or three myself. And, I don't even drink.


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## Multimomma (Jan 25, 2008)

moderation, yes. but this was a six week old and she was drunk enough to have slurred speech and have trouble walking. That's not a drink or two.


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## KMomto2xy (Mar 30, 2009)

I'm not sure I understand why everyone is working on the assumption that this woman had A DRINK. It seems clear from the article that she was, in fact, intoxicated. I've never been harassed for having a beer while breastfeeding, but the two times I've been drunk since I've had my son, he was in my parents care (and I'm not a drinker really, but my friend had just died in Afghanistan, so we were going out to celebrate her amazing life) and I certainly did not breastfeed him.

In any case, I think it's safer to assume she was truly intoxicated and that's what she was arrested for than some jerk cop just came out of the blue, saw a beer can on the table and arrested her.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

If she was so drunk then that article should state what her blood alcohol level is, and what the baby's blood alcohol level is. Because both should have been checked if she was arrested for endangering her baby through her drinking.


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## KMomto2xy (Mar 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
If she was so drunk then that article should state what her blood alcohol level is, and what the baby's blood alcohol level is. Because both should have been checked if she was arrested for endangering her baby through her drinking.

Perhaps they didn't feel like disclosing her private medical information for some reason. In any case, the woman pled guilty.

I do agree that more information would be helpful to discussing this, but I certainly do not think it's a case of the cop seeing her drink a beer and arresting her.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

If she's arrested, that stops being private medical information and is part of a public court file. People charged with DUI routinely have that information released.


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## KMomto2xy (Mar 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
If she's arrested, that stops being private medical information and is part of a public court file. People charged with DUI routinely have that information released.


I understand that. I didn't write the article, and I don't know if her BAC was taken and if it was, why it was not published. I do know that it's not required in some states to have, simply the officer stating the person appeared impaired. Since the woman was actually charged with neglect, the issue in court may very well have been her caring for the child in an impaired state, and not the alcohol content in the infant. Since she did plead guilty, as of right now I think we can safely assume she was intoxicated. You do understand the media sells much more when they have sensational stories, correct? "OMG MOM BREASTFEEDING DRUNK!!!" sells better than "Woman charged with neglect for caring for her infant while intoxicated".

There's a lot we don't know about this case, such as what the woman was drinking, how much she was drinking, what her BAC was, what the infant's BAC was, etc. There was a link posted in the thread about this topic in lactivism that was of a case where an infant died after it's mother drank a lot of pure grain alcohol and breastfed, and the child died of acute ethanol toxicity.

I believe there's more to the issue than whether or not the child got enough alcohol to affect them. What if the mother was so drunk when she was nursing her child she passed out and smothered him/her on accident? What if she dropped him/her and caused serious injury? I think the officer acted trying to protect the child, not come down on the mother.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KMomto2xy* 
Perhaps they didn't feel like disclosing her private medical information for some reason. In any case, the woman pled guilty.

I do agree that more information would be helpful to discussing this, but I certainly do not think it's a case of the cop seeing her drink a beer and arresting her.

I don't see anyone assuming she had a drink; many of us are more reacting to the poster who suggested banning alcohol!

Also, pleading guilty means so little. So many people do it because they are told, "You have no chance at winning, but if you plead guilty, you might be able to avoid jail / having your kids taken away." So her plea doesn't influence my opinion of how drunk she was (I have no idea!).

I don't think it's a good idea to get drunk, period, MUCH LESS to care for children while drunk, but there is also a gray area and I think a lot of us would like to know what the law considers as neglect in these circumstances.


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## KMomto2xy (Mar 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
I don't see anyone assuming she had a drink; many of us are more reacting to the poster who suggested banning alcohol!

Also, pleading guilty means so little. So many people do it because they are told, "You have no chance at winning, but if you plead guilty, you might be able to avoid jail / having your kids taken away." So her plea doesn't influence my opinion of how drunk she was (I have no idea!).

I don't think it's a good idea to get drunk, period, MUCH LESS to care for children while drunk, but there is also a gray area and I think a lot of us would like to know what the law considers as neglect in these circumstances.


Ooooh. I thought people were saying they thought SHE only had a drink. I was quite confused. I'm erring on the side of believing the officer, just because my ex husband is a cop







.

Well hopefully people would use common sense as a guide. If you're too drunk to drive, I'd assume you should not be caring for a child, which is even more complicated







.


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## spicyrock (Apr 11, 2009)

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=7931777&page=1

In this artice, it makes it sound as though the officers didn't add the charge of negligence until later, after talking to a hospital about whether or not that was a possible charge. That would also explain why they didn't give her a breathalyzer- if it was a charge brought after the fact.

Based on the articles that I have read, it seems like she somehow really got on the wrong side of these cops. She called them there for a domestic dispute case, right? Why is there no mention of any arrest following from that?

It also really bugs me that so much of the bad reporting around this case makes it sound like it is against the law to drink while breastfeeding. And even though I know what sort of headlines sell, it still bothers me that we sacrifice any attempt at journalistic integrity to money in the pockets of the lowest common denominator.


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## spicyrock (Apr 11, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KMomto2xy* 

Well hopefully people would use common sense as a guide. If you're too drunk to drive, I'd assume you should not be caring for a child, which is even more complicated







.

This is a pretty good guideline, I think!


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## KMomto2xy (Mar 30, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spicyrock* 
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=7931777&page=1

In this artice, it makes it sound as though the officers didn't add the charge of negligence until later, after talking to a hospital about whether or not that was a possible charge. That would also explain why they didn't give her a breathalyzer- if it was a charge brought after the fact.

Based on the articles that I have read, it seems like she somehow really got on the wrong side of these cops. She called them there for a domestic dispute case, right? Why is there no mention of any arrest following from that?

It also really bugs me that so much of the bad reporting around this case makes it sound like it is against the law to drink while breastfeeding. And even though I know what sort of headlines sell, it still bothers me that we sacrifice any attempt at journalistic integrity to money in the pockets of the lowest common denominator.


I'd definitely like to see this annoying OMGZ sensationalist journalism go away. Yes, as a nation we love drama, I do as well, but drama is for TV and gossip columns not news. It wouldn't shock me if she got on the wrong side of a domestic dispute, cops usually really do NOT like dealing with those (especially if someone is intoxicated, which isn't known for a fact in this case). I think my ex would rather do a speed trap or work in the office all day before babysitting a couple of adults!

I do think this is an opportunity to provide some education to the general public that a drink or two is not the most horrible thing a breastfeeding mom can do. But I also think we just generally need far, far more education on the issue in general. I can't tell you how many doctors are hesitant to prescribe anything at all if you're nursing. I've been battling my pdoc for my much-needed ADD meds for a couple of months now. Luckily I finally have my peds blessing, so hopefully I should be able to get back on them next visit







. Wow, that was way OT. Sorry!


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KMomto2xy* 
Ooooh. I thought people were saying they thought SHE only had a drink. I was quite confused. I'm erring on the side of believing the officer, just because my ex husband is a cop







. He's a jerk but he's a jerk with good intentions.

Well hopefully people would use common sense as a guide. If you're too drunk to drive, I'd assume you should not be caring for a child, which is even more complicated







.

Good intentions wouldn't do it for me, personally. Here is a woman who may have called the police to help her deal with someone who (regardless of whether we are talking a pattern of abuse) may have been physically intimidating or verbally threatening (domestic issue, right?) and they arrest HER for breastfeeding her baby?

I am prepared to believe the unlikely scenario that she's the demon in this case- falling-down-drunk, calling in with nonsense while her husband did nothing to merit a call to law-enforcement, and then feeding an infant irresponsibly.

But that seems so unlikely. I would never assume it. Most likely, we're talking history of verbal abuse or physical intimidation if not abuse, somewhat drunk (if you are my size, that's two servings of alcohol, by the way!), feeling frightened and needing to comfort a baby that awoke to an argument. A person feeling desperate.

The man might have had many more drinks but being larger (as men usually are) did not come off as drunk.









And then, as very often happens, the cops blame HER.

Not including the breastfeeding, that happens ALL THE TIME.

And frankly, I don't give a hoot whether or not a jerk has good intentions. Both the victim AND the accused deserve to be assumed innocent until proven guilty, and not to have someone try to get back at them through desperate attempts at charges, just because the police don't like them.

Sorry if the police don't like domestic disputes. Get a freaking new career- I pay your salary to keep me safe on the street AND at home! From strangers AND my family! If you don't like that idea, then GET ANOTHER JOB.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Just a reminder:

Quote:

Members may discuss news items in appropriate parenting forums such as breastfeeding items in lactivism, birth related items in the birth forums or chickenpox outbreaks in Health & Healing. However, keep in mind that threads still need to remain on-topic for the forum and should not be about individuals but about the general topic.
With that in mind, we should probably stick to the topic of alcohol and breastfeeding.

Sorry, mamas.


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## claddaghmom (May 30, 2008)

The journalism seems sensational to me too. It does make me suspicious that an actual number wasn't printed. We are relying on the journalist to tell us that she was intoxicated.

I know one thing for sure...I am







: about this hitting the media again. I am so tired of going out for a fancy dinner w/ DH and getting looks or rude comments b/c I share an expensive glass of wine w/ him.

As for the question of why I would work so diligently to ensure a drug-free childbirthing process and why I am trying to keep her vaccine free...but still have had a couple drinks this year...I think that question can only be answered if the person asking the question takes a good, honest hour or two to heavily research the topics.

The drugs used in modern childbirthing are NOT comparable to a glass of wine.







Furthermore, drugs passing the placental barrier during an important lifecycle event w/ implications for the health of the child is NOT the same as my 7.5 month old possibly nursing while/after I drink a glass of wine.

Same w/ vaccines. Vaccines contain metals, animal DNA/serum and a host of other toxins. Intramuscular injection of these chemicals, viruses and toxins is NOT the same as DD potentially being exposed to the remnants of alcohol in milk.

















I hope the mom in the article gets a really good lawyer.


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## chase_mommy (Nov 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Multimomma* 
moderation, yes. but this was a six week old and she was drunk enough to have slurred speech and have trouble walking. That's not a drink or two.

I will say that IF I have one drink you may think that I have had way more than one. This is why I don't drink.







Not everyone can handle their alcohol the same.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
Also, pleading guilty means so little. So many people do it because they are told, "You have no chance at winning, but if you plead guilty, you might be able to avoid jail / having your kids taken away." So her plea doesn't influence my opinion of how drunk she was (I have no idea!).

I don't think it's a good idea to get drunk, period, MUCH LESS to care for children while drunk, but there is also a gray area and I think a lot of us would like to know what the law considers as neglect in these circumstances.









:


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chase_mommy* 
I will say that IF I have one drink you may think that I have had way more than one. This is why I don't drink.







Not everyone can handle their alcohol the same.

This is true! I am 5' even and just over 100 lbs, and before DS was born I could have 3 or 4 drinks without feeling a thing (no, I was not an alcoholic, nor did I even drink that frequently, I just held my liquor remarkably well for someone my size). Now, for whatever reason, I can feel it after a drink or two, so that's all I ever have.

I don't know what my BAC would be after 1 or 2 beers, but I have no problem nursing my son after a few drinks. I don't drive after I've been drinking, at least for a few hours, so I never worry too much about legal limits while driving. As for parenting, I wouldn't feel comfortable having more than a slight buzz, and I never drink alone while caring for my son.


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## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

I couldn't give a damn how much alcohol was in her system, what she obviously needed was help, not a court case.

Everything I have read says 'obviously intoxicated' but what does that mean? The merriness etc after a couple of drinks.

If she was 'that' drunk and suffering domestic violence did it not occur to anyone that maybe the drunkenness was a result of the violence?

I just find the whole thing so sad.


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## demottm (Nov 15, 2006)

Was the baby 6 weeks or 6 months?


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## baileyb (Dec 22, 2010)

I think any alcohol that would've been passed to the baby would be far better than having its mother taken away from it for up to 5 years. I suspect though that if the cops were called for a domestic disturbance that the mother was probably closer to being WASTED rather than just drunk and the child neglect charge would have to do more with a wasted mother taking care of an infant rather than having anything to do with her BF-ing. All around badly written article.....


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