# For People That Don't Approve of Harry Potter...Question...



## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm wondering if it all books that have magic, wizardy type of themes that you don't approve of or if there is something more specific about Harry Potter.

Just trying to understand where you're coming from on this. Thanks!


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

For me, it isn't the magic, it's the pro-slavery, pro-class-system stuff. I don't ban them or anything; I just don't think they're the harmless fun books they're considered to be.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna* 
For me, it isn't the magic, it's the pro-slavery, pro-class-system stuff. I don't ban them or anything; I just don't think they're the harmless fun books they're considered to be.

Pro-slavery? But what about SPEW??

Aside from muggles vs. wizards, what are the classes in HP? The different schools? Not really following this, sorry.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

I think my aunt took exception to his guardians being portrayed as bumbling fools. Something about a lack of respect for one's elders. But parentless children against mean grownups is a pretty common theme in children's books.


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

I don't ban them and I'm happy enough that my stepkids read them with such enthusiasm. I just don't think they're that great: they recycle a lot of themes in better children's fantasy literature. They can be a gateway to other (in my opinion, better) books, or they can the only thing a child insists on reading - I would hope that they'd be the former!


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna* 
For me, it isn't the magic, it's the pro-slavery, pro-class-system stuff. I don't ban them or anything; I just don't think they're the harmless fun books they're considered to be.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

:

I have never read them so I am neither for or gainst them. but the only bad thing most people focus on is the magic etc so I am intrested to hear more of the down side. I really do hate the "Adults are stupid and kids are the only ones with good ideas" theme in so many childrens books.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
Pro-slavery? But what about SPEW??

Aside from muggles vs. wizards, what are the classes in HP? The different schools? Not really following this, sorry.

SPEW is ridiculed because the elves like being enslaved--I don't like the depiction in children's stories of some types of people liking to be enslaved.

I don't remember now what I thought was classist in HP. Sorry, I'm not at my best today....


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka* 

I really do hate the "Adults are stupid and kids are the only ones with good ideas" theme in so many childrens books.

Actually, aside from HP's guardians (who are relatively minor characters), I can't think of too many "stupid" adults in the series (there was one vain and silly professor, that's about it?). There are definitely "good" and "evil" adults, but most of them are certainly depicted as clever enough. In fact, the children have pretty cool relationships with a number of adults -- particularly the adults in the Order of the Phoenix -- and quite a few are viewed as role models by the kids.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

My sister is a Christian of the faith-based movement and she believes that anything remotely involved with magic is devil worship. That is why she eschews Harry Potter and anything else related to magic.

Personally, I've really enjoyed the Harry Potter series and can't wait for the last book this summer. I'm quite thrilled that JK Rowling came up with the idea and has empowered single mothers around the world with her personal story.


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## Ubelle (Nov 3, 2006)

I think what many see as the different classes are:

Muggles
Muggleborn witches and wizards (Lily, Hermione)
Pure Bloods
Half breeds (Hagrid, Lupin, Flitwick)
Magical creatures (House Elves, Centaurus)

Discrimination is rampant in the books, some pure bloods look down on muggleborns, many in the HP world look down on magical creatures and half breeds as dangerous. There are poor vs Rich discriminations (Malfoy vs Weasley). There is obviously the Good vs Evil, but many characters are grey.

I happen to like the books and I think there can be a benefit from using the books to teach certain moral issue - at least it one way to start a conversation on discrimination and differences.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ubelle* 
I think what many see as the different classes are:

Muggles
Muggleborn witches and wizards (Lily, Hermione)
Pure Bloods
Half breeds (Hagrid, Lupin, Flitwick)
Magical creatures (House Elves, Centaurus)

Discrimination is rampant in the books, some pure bloods look down on muggleborns, many in the HP world look down on magical creatures and half breeds as dangerous. There are poor vs Rich discriminations (Malfoy vs Weasley). There is obviously the Good vs Evil, but many characters are grey.


Do you see this as "pro-class system" as a PP described it, though?

I don't see most of these as class discriminations, as muggles, pure-bloods, magical creatures etc. are born to these groups. The groupings are not created by society but by genetics.

And the books are NEVER sympathetic to discrimination -- the word "mudblood" is considered a dirty word, and the Malfoys' attitude toward the Weasleys is always painted as negative.

If anything, the books seem to paint a realistic picture of how discrimination *occurs* in society, but certainly do not *promote* it.

Edited to add -- I've no idea where the party-smiley-face dude came from.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

Now I remember the class thing--the boarding school. I know that in the books, the Hogwarts school is a cool fun place, but in real life, those British boarding schools are training grounds for the upper class. I was a little annoyed by the glorification of what was essentially a prep school.


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## Petersmamma (Mar 28, 2006)

In America, boarding schools are pretty much for the upper classes as well (aside from a few for inner city kids, or scholarships, etc). And honestly, I think most kids wouldn't WANT to go to a boarding school, but this one sounds FUN.

And at Hogwarts, even though it is a boarding school, money doesn't actually seem to matter. I mean, the Weasley's don't have a ton of money, but all the kids went. I always had the impression that you didn't really pay tuition, just for your supplies.

Personally, I love the books.

Yes, SPEW is slighty silly as most of the elves like being house-elves, but did you ever consider that a la Way of the Peaceful Warrior that service is something that will bring you incredible peace and happiness? Maybe the elves are spritually fulfilled by their service. I mean, no, they don't like working for the Malfoy's and other mean wizards, but a job at Hogwarts puts them in a pleasant environment where they can take care of everybody. Or maybe the elves are meant to start conversations with your kids about what it means to have servants and not be able to do things yourself, what is slavery, etc etc.


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## feminist~mama (Mar 6, 2002)

The issue of money for school is specifically addressed in one of the books- 5 or 6? There's a fund for children who can't afford it- Dumbledore tells Tom Riddle about it when he invites him to Hogwarts. Essentially it's set up so that no child will be denied based on funds or lack thereof.

I understand the complaint about boarding schools and class issues within our society- but in the Harry Potter world, it's difficult to see how the school could exist without it being a boarding school IMO...

I'm a fan of the books and really have mainly positive things to say about them. It would have been nice if all the main characters weren't Caucasian and if folks who are differently abled had been included... not to say that they are completely absent, just not "main players" for the most part...


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## usolyfan (Jul 2, 2006)

My issue with them comes from my faith. I don't want the magic & sorcery themes in my house. Aside from that, I think the movies are scary and I don't want my child subjected to media that I know will scare her. (I saw bits of one of the movies on an airplane and I thought it was much too scary for children).


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## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)




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## dynamicdoula (Jun 11, 2004)

I don't have a problem with the classism, so shoot me. I think it is definitely an experience that ALL children have, and can relate to. There is always a hierarchy of who has more, and who has less. It's the world we live in! What I don't mind is that the core group are a mix, and it shows that friendship can rise above arbitrary differences.

I just don't think we can make these things go away by not acknowledging them, and giving children a context into which we can insert our values, and a context that can drive really wonderful discussions among the whole family- that can't be bad. Whole families read and love these books and movies- what a wonderful tool it could be!


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## RoundAbout (Aug 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 

And the books are NEVER sympathetic to discrimination -- the word "mudblood" is considered a dirty word, and the Malfoys' attitude toward the Weasleys is always painted as negative.

If anything, the books seem to paint a realistic picture of how discrimination *occurs* in society, but certainly do not *promote* it.

Absolutely agree.

I believe Rowling said she knew kids were aware of things like class differences, discrimination, and poverty and chose to address them in a child friendly way rather than just ignore them. I would think a kid from a poor background would really relate to Ron Weasley (used robes, can't afford candy on the train, etc.), that a child from a racially different background might relate to Hermione (despite the fact that her parents are Muggles she is the best magician in her class), etc.

I don't see any of the adults as stupid except for Potter's aunt/uncle/cousin. Most of the main characters have positive experiences with their parents and the adults at the school.

I don't see any endorsement of racial discrimination: The Weasley dad's attempt to understand the Muggle world is portrayed postively. Mudblood is definitely identified as a derogatory term used by bad people. The Malfoys, who are snotty about their wealth and pure blood, are some of the most evil characters in the book.

I find the messages in HP way more positive and real than that portrayed in most Disney films.


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## srain (Nov 26, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *feminist~mama* 
It would have been nice if all the main characters weren't Caucasian and if folks who are differently abled had been included... not to say that they are completely absent, just not "main players" for the most part...

I've never pictured most of the characters being Caucasian- do they explicitly say they are? (I don't always read descriptions of appearance too carefully!







)


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## maria423 (Dec 24, 2003)

I only read the first three, so I can't speak about the later books.

From a literary standpoint, I didn't think they were very well written.

I also did not like the "good" vs. "bad," everything's so black and white aspect of the books. Harry, except for some innocent hi-jinks, was so darn good. While the bad kid (I forgot his name) was so darn bad. No in between. No gray area like there is in real life. I think characters that have more layers to them are infinitely more interesting.


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## maria423 (Dec 24, 2003)

After re-reading the title of the thread, I want to make it clear that i don't "disapprove" of the Harry Potter books. I just don't think they're all they're cracked up to be.


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

I'm pretty sure you've got your Patel girls-- Indian? And the girl Harry crushes on is Asian, right? Not too bad, but mostly Caucasian it seems, amongst the main circle. I like that JKR attempts to address some social issues but I think she reinforces plenty, too.

I tend to agree they are not the Greatest Children's Books Ever but rather riff/rip off a lot of previous lit. Sometimes the plots downright make NO sense to me (plot holes we call them) and the writing can be so-so. BUT they got my little bro reading, and he now at 21 reads voraciously-- other really good stuff, too. I read them when my family passes them on to me-- gotta keep up with my students, many of whom love HP.

But I don't disaprove as I know plenty of Christians do, due to the magic aspects. Totally respect that.


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## TexasSuz (Mar 4, 2002)

For me it is many things - I am very anti-media as it is and very picky about what I let my kids watch. I don't like the anti-adult attitude in many movies as well as the exposure to magic from a "power." I have no problem with magic "tricks" that are billed as such.

I am Christian and I would rather expose my kids to things like Madeleine L'Engle books that are imaginative but also spiritually positive. I just see no need to fill our lives with 90% of the current media junk. I would rather reada good book than watch American Idol or HP.


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

Oh gosh, now I'm craving a good L'Engle read...


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maria423* 
I also did not like the "good" vs. "bad," everything's so black and white aspect of the books. Harry, except for some innocent hi-jinks, was so darn good. While the bad kid (I forgot his name) was so darn bad. No in between. No gray area like there is in real life. I think characters that have more layers to them are infinitely more interesting.

Actually, if you really read the books, you'll realize that the "good" guys actually do way more harm and do more bullying of the "bad" guys than the "bad" guys do - in each generation, it was a good guy (Sirius and Harry) that tried to kill bad guys (Snape, Draco), when the worst the bad guys did was call names. (Until the sixth book and Draco's task).


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## * guest * (Feb 22, 2007)

I'm not against Harry Potter but I would NEVER let my children read the books or see the movies. They wouldn't be mature enough to understand the darker themes or realise that it's not real and magic doesn't exist.


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## joensally (Jun 19, 2006)

I'll answer both threads here. I have an almost 8 year old who is a voracious reader who loves series. At first, I was withholding HP because: there is so much other stuff to read; I knew the dementors would get under her skin; and she'd previously been very sensitive. Then she read all the Lemony Snickets in no time at all, and then various other books with dark themes. Then she read Bridge to Terabithia and I knew that she'd found a way to cope with more troubling concepts. Keep in mind, she reads all of this independently so there's no editing possible.

I don't know exactly what's kept me from giving her our copies. We've been finding some real gems at the library lately so she's busy. I think HP has some great stories, but are not the be-all-end-all of children's fiction.

I sometimes wonder what this generation is going to be like and if significant differences in MRI scans might be found when comparing brains of different generations. When I see little ones in movies intended for older people on those big screens, with these amazing CGI effects...what difference might that be making to how they view and understand the world? Not all of the "themes," never mind the visuals, can be going "over their heads." I was raised that I could read anything I liked, and was taken to a number of 18+ movies and I still have absolutely visceral memories of some of that stuff. (no judgement in this, just pondering)

(on a side note, we're currently reading A Wrinkle in Time together - the first book we've read together in a long time - and it's a good read so far







).

ETA: The books are also a coming of age series - so the themes relate to escalating ages in addition to the core story arc. It's a bit of a bind, because lots of younger kids might really enjoy the first two or so, but then find the latter books less relatable or interesting. Unlike many series, where the time span and content is typically no more than 3 years, this is over 7 years. Of course, I can see that you could become sufficiently invested in the story to plod through the relationship stuff to get to the part where you find out what happens!


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

The only thing I have against Harry Potter is that I read the first 5 chapters of the first one and found it utterly boring and mainstream. If my my dd wants to read it someday, she can, but I'm not going to read it to her.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kireiemiri* 
I'm not against Harry Potter but I would NEVER let my children read the books or see the movies. They wouldn't be mature enough to understand the darker themes or realise that it's not real and magic doesn't exist.

They will NEVER be mature enough to read the books?


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maria423* 
I also did not like the "good" vs. "bad," everything's so black and white aspect of the books. Harry, except for some innocent hi-jinks, was so darn good. While the bad kid (I forgot his name) was so darn bad. No in between. No gray area like there is in real life. I think characters that have more layers to them are infinitely more interesting.

I think this is a HUGE mischaracterization of the books. There are so many counter examples--for instance, when Harry looks through the pensieve and sees his "saintly" father tormenting a young Snape. Harry sometimes acts quite badly toward Ron and Hermione. Even Draco turns out to be more nuanced in later books.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *St. Margaret* 

I tend to agree they are not the Greatest Children's Books Ever but rather riff/rip off a lot of previous lit..

I agree, but I don't see this as a negative. The Harry Potter books are romances--not romances in the "sexy lit" sense, but in the original medieval sense. All romances are derivative--they share certain basic plot elements, themes, even types of characters and this overlap binds them together as a genre. The Lord of the Rings trilogy is highly derivative, but I still think they're fantastic books. Heck, Shakespeare borrowed most of his plots wholesale from other authors/texts. Our emphasis on "true" originality is very modern and, frankly, a little disingenuous--all writing is, in some sense, derivative.


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## Ubelle (Nov 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
Do you see this as "pro-class system" as a PP described it, though?

I don't see most of these as class discriminations, as muggles, pure-bloods, magical creatures etc. are born to these groups. The groupings are not created by society but by genetics.

And the books are NEVER sympathetic to discrimination -- the word "mudblood" is considered a dirty word, and the Malfoys' attitude toward the Weasleys is always painted as negative.

If anything, the books seem to paint a realistic picture of how discrimination *occurs* in society, but certainly do not *promote* it.

Edited to add -- I've no idea where the party-smiley-face dude came from.

No I don't see it as a pro-class system really - just listing what different classes there are. Although in the HP world the ministry does set up different rules for different groups but I'm not sure that could be considered a true class system either because not all in the society follow or believe in it.

on another note: I have seem many children start reading voraciously after starting the HP series, and it can be a good jumping off point to introduce other great authors like L'engle, as someone suggested. I read her books (wrinkle in time, etc) as a child and loved them, I still have them I think.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *St. Margaret* 
I'm pretty sure you've got your Patel girls-- Indian? And the girl Harry crushes on is Asian, right? Not too bad, but mostly Caucasian it seems, amongst the main circle.

Lee Jordan, Angelina Johnson, and Dean Thomas are all black, and they're fairly major characters.

Dar


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## mamaverdi (Apr 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Irishmommy* 
Actually, if you really read the books, you'll realize that the "good" guys actually do way more harm and do more bullying of the "bad" guys than the "bad" guys do - in each generation, it was a good guy (Sirius and Harry) that tried to kill bad guys (Snape, Draco), when the worst the bad guys did was call names. (Until the sixth book and Draco's task).

Um, the bad guys KILL, torture, and destroy people.







How is that not BAD? Or more bad? than teasing people.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying here Irishmommy?

I think the books are a realistic fictional magical place. There is good and bad. Most characters are not essentially good or bad. Most.

But mostly, they are pretend. They aren't meant to be real.

Even my hardcore Baptist brother (his words) finally read them, and agreed after reading them that the hype/talk/upset wasn't all it was cracked up to be.


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## nd_deadhead (Sep 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kireiemiri* 
I'm not against Harry Potter but I would NEVER let my children read the books or see the movies. They wouldn't be mature enough to understand the darker themes or realise that it's not real and magic doesn't exist.

Your kids will never realize that magic doesn't exist?

I disagree. I think that a kid who makes a magic wand out of a pencil and waves it around saying magic words will very quickly realize that magic doesn't exist. They can "play" magic until they're blue in the face, but they aren't going to turn their pillow into a rabbit.

Harry Potter is FICTION. The magical powers of the charcters in the book are IMAGINARY. I don't think there's anything wrong with kids reading about imaginary stuff.

I think the world would be a pretty boring place if we weren't allowed to use our imaginations.


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## NoHiddenFees (Mar 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nd_deadhead* 
Your kids will never realize that magic doesn't exist?

My last worry would be that my children would grow up thinking magic exists. Fantasy worlds are places that children can start to learn about stronger emotions and negative human qualities in a safe, abstracted environment. Are they strictly necessary? Probably not, but what do you think are the underlying reasons for there having been folktales and myths in every human culture we've been able to study dating back millennia?


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

A lot of what I was going to say was already said- the "classism" in the books is fairly realistic and not glorified. There are plenty of non-caucasian secondary characters. I actually think it's incredibly positive that nothing is ever said about anybody's race- there are people of various ethnicities but the only thing ever noticed is a person's Magical heritage- the "mundane heritage" that we deal with in the real world is a complete non-issue in the HP world.

The characters aren't very "black and white" in terms of being good or bad, once you get past the first book. As Harry matures from an 11yo to a 16yo, his understanding of the world, and the complexity of the books, matures with him. There are plenty of strong male and female characters, and plenty of strong adult and child characters. The Dursley's (Harry's aunt, uncle, and cousin, with whom he grew up) are shown as being weak and "bad"- but that's based on their behavior, not on their lack of Magic, financial status, etc.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kireiemiri* 
I'm not against Harry Potter but I would NEVER let my children read the books or see the movies. They wouldn't be mature enough to understand the darker themes or realise that it's not real and magic doesn't exist.

You would never ever expose them to Harry Potter, even when they get older, or you don't think they're mature enough to handle the themes right now? There's a big difference between the two!


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## tiffer23 (Nov 7, 2005)

Interesting. I love HP. The books, the movies. It's JK Rowling I don't care for, but what can I do. lol. I've read them all and am DYING for the last book to come out, all while heartbroken the ride is going to be over.

I guess I really don't dive too deep into serious issues. The book is about a "good guy." To me, it's him trying to overcome bad things in his past, present, and future. Would I let my 5 year old read the books? (not that a typical 5 year old would want to anyways, but..) No. My friend's 8 year old (he's now 10 though) read them though and loves them. He's also read all the Lemony Snicket, LOTR, Chronicles of Narnia, etc. He's big into series like that. I think that's fine.


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaverdi* 
Um, the bad guys KILL, torture, and destroy people.







How is that not BAD? Or more bad? than teasing people.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying here Irishmommy?

Sorry, I was specifically thinking Snape and Draco Malfoy (and Draco's Slytherin schoolmates) vs. Harry/James/ Sirius/Dumbledore and the current Gryffindors.


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## Dov'sMom (Jan 24, 2007)

I agree with many PPs that the books are not that great from a literary perspective; however, I really don't find anything objectionable. (When they first came out, my father bought the first two and gave them to me to read to decide if they were appropriate for the kids. Double standard, do you think?







)

The boarding school point really seems like a stretch to me. Okay, it's true, most British boarding schools are elitist, but HW clearly isn't, and not everywhere is that so. In Germany, for example, most boarding schools are closer to juvenile detention centers than prep schools. I like the fact that the books discuss racism and prejudice, and I think they do it in a positive way. I see the PP's problem with the house elves, but I'm not sure it's not a good thing for sparking discussion.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

The class system is painted as negative, and the books are not pro-slavery IMO. Even so I think my child can differentiate between a house elf enjoying doing a good job for his family and a black man being forced to pick cotton. It's obvious in the books that the Malfoys treat their house elf horribly, and that treatment of him is portrayed as negative. The school treats their house elves VERY well, and the book makes it easy enough for kids to tell how it is and isn't appropriate to treat people who work for you.

I am a grown woman and began reading the books as a teen. I know that magic, the kind in the book anyway, isn't real. I have no problem with the sorcery theme. I do agree the themes are a little dark for some children, but I also don't think they'd even pick up on them. I never picked up on the darkness in Disney movies until I became a parent.


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## mahogny (Oct 16, 2003)

Joanne Rowling herself is VERY anti-racist, and has always said that the house-elf slavery issue is an important theme in the books, and will be resolved in book 7.

The same thing applies for the discrimination of muggles/mudbloods/purebloods etc.

The books were NEVER meant to be stand-alone books, and shouldn't be taken that way. They were always intended to be a series, with many of the issues and themes and mysteries not resolved until the last book. To say that the books are rife with racism and classism is taking the books as they are now, without taking the entire series into consideration.

Instead of thinking of them as seven separate books, think of them as seven chapters in one very large book. In any book, many of the issues aren't resolved until after the climax toward the last chapter. This is no different; many of the issues won't be resolved until the last chapter, ie the final book. A black and white judgement about a book shouldn't be made until every last word is read and the book is completed. (Which won't be until this July.)


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

It could be argued that house elves aren't human, so is it really much different than having a dog? A dog isn't free, has to earn its keep (by been a foot warmer if nothing else







). My dog I'm sure prefers being owned by me than being free and fending for itself.

Just a thought on the house elf issue.


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
I think this is a HUGE mischaracterization of the books. There are so many counter examples--for instance, when Harry looks through the pensieve and sees his "saintly" father tormenting a young Snape. Harry sometimes acts quite badly toward Ron and Hermione. Even Draco turns out to be more nuanced in later books.

I agree, but I don't see this as a negative. The Harry Potter books are romances--not romances in the "sexy lit" sense, but in the original medieval sense. All romances are derivative--they share certain basic plot elements, themes, even types of characters and this overlap binds them together as a genre. The Lord of the Rings trilogy is highly derivative, but I still think they're fantastic books. Heck, Shakespeare borrowed most of his plots wholesale from other authors/texts. Our emphasis on "true" originality is very modern and, frankly, a little disingenuous--all writing is, in some sense, derivative.

Oh, I know all about intertextuality and archetypes and "one story" all that. Heck, I teach it. But I think it can be handled more expertly than it always is in the HP series. Still good books, no doubt, but at times they fall short of what to me (and what book can be all things to all people, of course?) is "great" literature, that sort of book that lifts itself up as a soaring experience... sometimes the HP books do this, but then sometimes I get surprised by when they don't.


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## Katie Bugs Mama (Feb 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TexasSuz* 
I would rather reada good book than watch American Idol or HP.

I'd rather read a _bad_ book than watch American Idol.


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## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

Ditto!!! (And I don't think the HP books are BAD, just to be clear IMO).


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## MidgeMommy (Mar 22, 2007)

Actually, the characters in Harry Potter have Asian, Indian, and African heritages at least shown, Cho(Harry's crush) is Asian, Parvati and Lavendar Patil (Ron and Harry's dates to the Winter Ball) are Indian twins, Angelina Johnson is a black girl on the Gryffindor Quidditch team, who goes to the Winter ball with Fred Weasley, and in the movies, though I don't know that it was specified in the books, Jordan Lee is the black quidditch commentator, and good friend of the Weasley twins. I guess I can understand that they aren't main characters, but the stories are set in Britain, and they certainly aren't shown in a racist or negative way, or as being secondary characters because of their race.

PS - I love the Harry Potter books, and I think that all kids deserve to read stories like this, to get them through the transition from fairy tales and kids books to novels and stories with more advanced plotlines. Magic in some form or another is a common theme in ALL societies, and I certainly want my kids to think that anything is possible, including the supernatural. They'll discover on their own all too soon that magic is only really found in books.


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## sunshine's mama (Mar 3, 2007)

I don't have a huge issue with them per se....my issue with Harry Potter has more to do with my DP than with the books themselves (although there are only sooo many times I can watch the movies...) but with the fact that he thinks it's perfectly fine to let our almost 3 year old watch them....I have issues with that..

My SD loves the movies and her father spends a good deal of time at bedtime reading her a chapter a night or close to it. She doesn't understand eveyrthing that's going on but she likes the time with dad...

DD likes the animals in the movies and some of the magic stuff but I don't think it's appropriate for her to watch at this age and that's my issue with Harry Potter....IT's not approprite for young children and alot of parents are oking it out there....Trying to get DP to understand this though is a whole nother post in a totally different forum....LOL....

I do have to say that I liked them the first time I saw them but that was enough....LOL


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

I just wanted to point out that this takes place in Britain(Europe, Scotland whatever) which is predominately Caucasian so of course it makes sense that it would be mostly Caucasians there. We love harry potter and it doesn't bother my brown babies at all. As already pointed out there are good minorities roles in the books.


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## Aliviasmom (Jul 24, 2006)

I don't ban them...in fact I've never read them. I just can't stand fantasy/sci-fi/role-playing crap. I think there has been 1...maaaaaaybe 2 sci-fi books that I have enjoyed, but they weren't as sci-fi as like Star Wars/Trek, etc.


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## Mountaingirl3 (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MidgeMommy* 
I certainly want my kids to think that anything is possible, including the supernatural. They'll discover on their own all too soon that magic is only really found in books.









Books about magic were a huge source of happiness for me as a child. You could say that magic doesn't happen in the real world, but that's only because we're defining magic as "only happens in fantasy". I think plenty of inexplicable, mind-shattering, spine-tingling things happen on this earth. And if you think of the whole universe (or the other possible universes out there--barely believable recent physics), there's plenty of magic left.

I agree with MidgeMommy that kids should be able to explore imaginative ways of thinking and be totally outside the box. Mine have figured out that when you put a hat on your snowman, he doesn't dance around, and that "rescue dogs" don't fly with capes to save people. This was only a little disappointing, though, because they're still surrounded by amazing things. We talk about the magic of our world--spring, ocean waves, the phases of the moon, knowing exactly what your sister is thinking, the aurora borealis, birth . . .

They're not ready for Harry Potter, but when they are, it's a gift to give them that rush of being swept-up in a magical world. I think fantasy can help them see the miraculous in the "real world", too--for example, the magic of books.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I like the books. I think they are lots of fun, and bring it many literary themes that are familiar to people. The books are full of archetypes.

I can think some characters that aren't white--

Cho Chang

Dean Thomas

Parvati and her sister, Padma Patil

Angelina Johnson

Katie...dang, probably not a good example as I can't remember her name exactly. She plays Quiddich. Ack! ETA- I am thinking of Lavendar Brown.


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Lavender Brown doesn't play Quidditch, Angelina Johnson, Alicia Spinnet and Katie Bell are the female Quidditch players before book 6


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abimommy* 
Lavender Brown doesn't play Quidditch, Angelina Johnson, Alicia Spinnet and Katie Bell are the female Quidditch players before book 6

Yep! Katie Bell! Lavendar is in Gryffindor, but she doesn't play Quidditch. Time for a re-read before the last :sigh: book.


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## Nodtveidt (Dec 21, 2006)

I've never read the books nor seen the movies, but when my daughter is old enough to read, if she wants to read them then that's just fine by me. From a very very young age, she will know the difference between fiction and nonfiction, and the HP books are, without a shadow of a doubt, fiction. I'm not religious whatsoever and have been labelled by others as an extreme liberal and left-winger, so hey, maybe that contributes.  But reading is so crucial to a child's development, and it matters little what it is that they read as long as they're reading and developing their mind. Fiction is great for developing the imagination, and nonfiction is great for understanding what goes on in the real world. You need both for a well-rounded education. Hell, if she wants to read the Christian Bible, the Quaran (sp?), the Torah, the Satanic Bible, or any of the other hundreds of holy books out there, more power to her.


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