# When does one call the police on carseat issues?



## annab (Mar 25, 2003)

If you see a person driving down the road with kids in the car who are young enough to be restrained, but aren't, do you call the police?

I have seen this several times in the last few weeks, and my first instinct is to act in the name of safety and call the cops. But I hate to be the crazy lady always calling the police when I see someone not using carseats.

Thoughts?


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## MomSquared (Sep 21, 2006)

I am not one to meddle, or call the police (actually I never have) - but that is the one subject I am not lax on. If I ever saw it (fortunatley I have not) - I would call in an instance.
Babies/kids are not capable of making the safe decision about car seats, that is why we have to.


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## Oka-san (Jan 3, 2006)

You know, once I saw something that horrified me. I was behind a pickup truck going at 65 mph down the highway. In the back was a little boy of about age 3 or so, all by himself, standing up. The pickup had no gate in the back, so it was just this tiny little boy standing in the back of a speeding truck, nothing to hold onto but the sides of the open truck bed, not even a gate in the back to hold him in if he started tumbling out. I swear, my blood ran cold. I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

So I took down the license plate # and called the police as soon as I got home.

Guess what they said? "There's no law against letting a child ride in the back of a truck, so there's nothing we can do." I asked if they could at least contact the driver and explain how unsafe the situation was. Nope. The driver had done nothing against the law.

It really shook my confidence in the ability of the police to actually do something about things like that.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Wow. How can that be so? A kid that young would have to be in a car seat, right? That's a law, isn't it? That's horrific. It makes my chest hurt to see people doing that with their dogs.


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## Piercedboy (Mar 18, 2006)

I've done it. I was driving at 75 mph on the highway and had a lady whip past me with about 4 kids standing up in the backseat, and a baby laying on the rear dashboard.


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## HollyBearsMom (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Piercedboy* 
I've done it. I was driving at 75 mph on the highway and had a lady whip past me with about 4 kids standing up in the backseat, and a baby laying on the rear dashboard.

That would have been my family in the 60's. There were 5 of us kids and my favorite place was the rear dashboard when we went in my grandparents big old cadillac. I liked the "wayback" my folks stationwagon. I would never even consider not using a carseat for my son but I do have to say long trips were much more fun before them. I feel bad for my son strapped in his seat for so long when I used to be able to laydown, color, climb around. Of course I will never tell him that!


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## jlpumkin (Oct 25, 2005)

: That's my secret. Dh actually put local police on my speed dial on my cell.. I use it in 2 instances - if children are obviously unrestraining - riding on drivers lap, leaning out windows, etc. Or young children found wandering the neighborhood and their home can't be located. We spend a lot of time outside so we see a lot.


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## NaomiLorelie (Sep 2, 2004)

I'd call for sure!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HollyBearsMom* 
That would have been my family in the 60's. There were 5 of us kids and my favorite place was the rear dashboard when we went in my grandparents big old cadillac. I liked the "wayback" my folks stationwagon. I would never even consider not using a carseat for my son but I do have to say long trips were much more fun before them. I feel bad for my son strapped in his seat for so long when I used to be able to laydown, color, climb around. Of course I will never tell him that!

That does sound more fun than in my family. of course carseats weren't required but my parents were very strict about seat belts. All three of us would be crammed in the back of a very small car and we had to stay buckled up. Talk about uncomfortable. But I'm not really complaining. I love that my parents were about seat belts, whole grain bread, and EBF when no one else was. My mom still gets on me for not always buckling up in the backseat.


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## annab (Mar 25, 2003)

I loved the all-night drive from Indiana to Florida every year for spring break. Somewhere in TN, we folded down the middle seat of the station wagon and made a big bed in the back. Wonderful memories that my kids will never know.

OK! You have strengthened my resolve. I am gonna rat them out!


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

I would. It might offend someone for a day but it might save a life in the long run.


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## Mommabelle (Jul 31, 2006)

It is unsafe and I don't like it, but I see it ALL the time. I don't call the police because I would hate to sic DFACS on an otherwise good family..or in alot of instances the family could possibly be deported. It seems to be a cultural thing alot of the time.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommabelle* 
It is unsafe and I don't like it, but I see it ALL the time. I don't call the police because I would hate to sic DFACS on an otherwise good family..or in alot of instances the family could possibly be deported. It seems to be a cultural thing alot of the time.

I wouldn't want to have anyone deported either, but you cannot use culture as an excuse to break the law. There are *some* ways that people who move to other countries have to assimilate. I mean, I would not move to France and not expect to have to obey their laws.


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## mamma.mia (Oct 11, 2006)

: I think I'd call the police right away. That's 100% inexusable!







:


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## MomSquared (Sep 21, 2006)

In my neck of the woods, it is illegal to ride in a vehicle unrestrained (back of the truck bed for instance). Especially now with the "click it or ticket" campaign.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

I am absolutely







: that there are still places where it's legal to ride in the bed of a pick up.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommabelle* 
It is unsafe and I don't like it, but I see it ALL the time. I don't call the police because I would hate to sic DFACS on an otherwise good family..or in alot of instances the family could possibly be deported. It seems to be a cultural thing alot of the time.









:


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommabelle* 
It is unsafe and I don't like it, but I see it ALL the time. I don't call the police because I would hate to sic DFACS on an otherwise good family..or in alot of instances the family could possibly be deported. It seems to be a cultural thing alot of the time.

You do bring up a good point. It seems like DCFS will look for any reason they can to take kids into custody.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommabelle* 
It is unsafe and I don't like it, but I see it ALL the time. I don't call the police because I would hate to sic DFACS on an otherwise good family..or in alot of instances the family could possibly be deported. It seems to be a cultural thing alot of the time.

That's how I feel, too, although it's less cultural here. I'm not going to sic CPS on a family over a car seat.


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## NaomiLorelie (Sep 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
That's how I feel, too, although it's less cultural here. I'm not going to sic CPS on a family over a car seat.

You'd rather risk that they could get into an accident with an unrestrained child?


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## OriginalGirlGamer (Jan 11, 2006)

I was in Law Enforcement for a few years before I had my son, and nothing irritated us more than seeing a car roaring down the street with the youngins all over the car. We went ticket happy. And after seeing what happens when a car wrecks and the kids aren't strapped in, I feel even more strongly about it, that accident is something I'll never get out of my head.

And I want to smack whatever cop said there was nothing wrong with a 3 year old in the back of a pickup, because there is, a kid that young has to be in a carseat, no exceptions. Most places that still allow you to ride in the back have an age of 14-15 and up, which is still too young for me. >_>


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NaomiLorelie* 
You'd rather risk that they could get into an accident with an unrestrained child?

Mentally weighing out the odds, it seems far more likely that the child could end up being removed from his/her otherwise good parents. I won't take that risk.


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

: You know threads such as these are really bothersome to me sometimes. I personally feel that most parents do what they feel is best for their children and their families. In my eyes most parents love their children and would never deserve to have someone call the authorities on them. Yes, my children ride in carseats however in Japan this is not the norm nor is the it the law. In fact, in Japan they don't have a lot of laws governing how a parent is to raise their child. Of course they also don't have the abuse issues here like in the states. I am sure we have all done things that would anger others and could get us turned into DCFS (like not vaxing, not taking our children to the doc at every little cold or fever, letting our children run around naked in our home or yard--and god forbid taking pics of them in this natural state, etc. . .). I will admit that if I saw a child on the highway in the back of a truck that was going very fast that this would probably be cause to report, however just seeing children unrestrained in the backseat of the car would not cause me to report. My mother has a favorite saying everytime I tell her things parents do these days, she says it is amazing how children in her generation and in my generation lived. I never was restrained in the backseat of the car, my brother and I would play for hours on the floor or sit on our knees and look out the back window.

It is not my place to tell another parent who is doing the best job they know how to raise their children! I am not a perfect parent and I cannot be the woman who causes a good parent to have her children taken away because they were not in a carseat for who knows how long (have you thought that perhaps it was only a few blocks, or maybe the child was using a portable potty on the floor during a long trip and was getting back into their seat, again etc. . .).







:


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NaomiLorelie* 
You'd rather risk that they could get into an accident with an unrestrained child?

Just had to add this:

My co-worker (who is also a friend) is first generation American. She married into a family of legal immigrants who still for the most part stick to thier culture. They all thought she was nuts with all her "saftey and car seat sillyness" with her now 3 year old. Until she was in a pretty horrific car accident (not her fault) where she was t-boned at about 40 MPH. Her car was totalled and DD had to be removed with the Jaws of Life. DD was really scared (she was 2 at the time) but completely unscathed. Her entire family went out and bought or upgraded thier carseats and won't even drive down to the mailbox without thier kids strapped in.

My long drawn out point is...It only has to happen once. This could have been an incredible tragedy if she had listened to her family....Call the police, you could save a life.


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## annab (Mar 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treemom2* 







: My mother has a favorite saying everytime I tell her things parents do these days, she says it is amazing how children in her generation and in my generation lived.

I cannot be the woman who causes a good parent to have her children taken away because they were not in a carseat for who knows how long (have you thought that perhaps it was only a few blocks, or maybe the child was using a portable potty on the floor during a long trip and was getting back into their seat, again etc. . .).







:

For every person who says that we are too cautious, there is a parent who fought hard to get these laws enacted because they knew someone who died.

Most accidents occur within 20 miles of the home. There is a greater chance that they will be injured in that few-block trip than on the interstate.

In Indiana, it is a ticket. CPS is not called if it is only a child restraint infraction.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

I skipped the police and directly called cps when I saw a pickup truck going down the highway with two adults in the back and an infant unrestrained on the adult's lap. But that was the only time. I've also called cps on parents beating their kids in public.


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annab* 
For every person who says that we are too cautious, there is a parent who fought hard to get these laws enacted because they knew someone who died.

I guess this same argument could be made for vaccinations as well or for well baby visits. What about the people who have DCFS called because they refuse certain medical treatments for their child and are eventually forced into doing it. As I said before, I honestly think for the most part parents love their children and do what they feel is best for them--unless a child is in dire danger (ie, riding in the back of a speeding truck or being beaten or neglected) who are we to judge?


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## BamBam'sMom (Jun 4, 2005)

In my state there is an 800 number you can call to report cars with children without carseats. You are supposed to give the make and model of the car, the license plate number, and the location in which the car was seen. I believe you just leave a message. The people you report don't get fined or investigated, but they get carseat safety info sent to them.

I don't like getting people in trouble, which is why I really like this option. In this state, people on aid programs can apply for and get free carseats, so there's no excuse to be driving around without them.

Try looking through the government pages in your phone book to see if there's anything like this where you're located. There's usually a general information number.


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BamBam'sMom* 
In my state there is an 800 number you can call to report cars with children without carseats. You are supposed to give the make and model of the car, the license plate number, and the location in which the car was seen. I believe you just leave a message. The people you report don't get fined or investigated, but they get carseat safety info sent to them.

Wow, this sounds like a great option. . .I wish all states in the US had this!


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

You don't have to be in a "speeding" car or truck or in the bed of a truck to be seriously injured and probably killed if you are riding unrestrained. Speed doesn't equate seriousness of injury. Being unrestrained, yeah, that will lead to your ejection from the vehicle. The distance you fly will depend on how fast you were going prior to the wreck and if a tree or utility pole gets in your way before gravity pulls you down, and smacks your head into the concrete. Yeah. Sign my kids up for that.







:
Cite for me documented cases where CPS was called and an investigation done when someone's only offense was not restraining their kids in a car. I don't know about your area, but CPS here has MUCH better cases to attend to than an un-restrained child. Don't get me wrong. An unrestrained child is VERY serious. But these are 2 different entities. It would be like calling your doctor for a vehicles mechanical problems. That reasoning is ridiculous and lazy. Afraid of CPS for that ? Nah.

DC


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Sure in some cases they might. But it would take some time to trace the car and the address. Not a lot I'm sure, but do they have that authority or would they just send a "CYA" letter?

I'd call the police because they can give a ticket and it could be a relative driving the kid.

[Sorry, I posted about this elsewhere]There was an awful accident recenty a block from my house. I drive through that intersection at least twice a day. It's a supposedly "residential" street but that doesn't mean anything. Even the alleys are dangerous around here. My husband's colleague was in the accident. She was okay but she had to be cut out of her car. An unrestrained child would not have had a chance.


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## kirei (Dec 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treemom2* 
My mother has a favorite saying everytime I tell her things parents do these days, she says it is amazing how children in her generation and in my generation lived. I never was restrained in the backseat of the car, my brother and I would play for hours on the floor or sit on our knees and look out the back window.


Yes, YOU were fine...... but a lot of children have died as well, and they're not here to tell their side of the story. That argument is very biased and I hear it all the time. The reason carseat safety has changed over the years is because of those who have died while unrestrained.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

CPS handles abusive and neglectful situations (among other things). The police handle moving violations in a vehicle (in addition to other law violations). Unrestrained children could technically fall under abuse or neglect, but CPS isn't the best first reponder. The police are. I don't understand the thought process behind the unsubstantiated fear that one would be unleashing CPS on someone if they were to call in an unrestrained child.







:
The health and well being of the child is the most important. However in addition to saving their life, you would also likely be saving everyone money. The economic loss attributed to MVA's is astronomical.


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## MomSquared (Sep 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treemom2* 







: My mother has a favorite saying everytime I tell her things parents do these days, she says it is amazing how children in her generation and in my generation lived. I never was restrained in the backseat of the car, my brother and I would play for hours on the floor or sit on our knees and look out the back window.







:

I too feel that is a weak argument. I likely was not restrained either as a child, but that does not make it "right". Just like my MIL who practically discouraged me from quitting smoking when I found out I was pregnant...ya know, cause she smoked with all five of her kids. Again - does that make it right - I dont think so!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treemom2* 







: It is not my place to tell another parent who is doing the best job they know how to raise their children!







:

Really - not restraining an infant is the Best Job they know how. I disagree - I feel most know better, they choose not to do better in this situation.


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## Oka-san (Jan 3, 2006)

Yep, my parents didn't restrain me or my brother in "real" car seats either. There are pics of me in a car seat, but it was really just a cheap plastic thingy designed to keep me upright and raised so I could see out the window, not to protect me in a crash.

And the only reason we're fine today is because we didn't get into a car accident when we were in those things!! The line of reasoning that says "I did X with you and you're fine" doesn't work when the consequences of X were never tested out.


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## rharr! (Nov 9, 2005)

If I am in the position to talk with the parents first, I try that.
I have called the police, and will again if I need to.


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## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
I'm not going to sic CPS on a family over a car seat.

Me neither.


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annab* 
If you see a person driving down the road with kids in the car who are young enough to be restrained, but aren't, do you call the police?

I have seen this several times in the last few weeks, and my first instinct is to act in the name of safety and call the cops. But I hate to be the crazy lady always calling the police when I see someone not using carseats.

Thoughts?

Yes, I do. I'll go ahead and be the crazy lady.







: Hey, call me a whack job, but if my actions save even one kid, then it's absolutely worth it.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren* 
Cite for me documented cases where CPS was called and an investigation done when someone's only offense was not restraining their kids in a car. I don't know about your area, but CPS here has MUCH better cases to attend to than an un-restrained child. Don't get me wrong. An unrestrained child is VERY serious. But these are 2 different entities. It would be like calling your doctor for a vehicles mechanical problems. That reasoning is ridiculous and lazy. Afraid of CPS for that ? Nah.

DC

Perhaps in your area they have more important things to do. Here? They would "find" more things wrong or outright lie about it. You don't have to be guilty of anything to be afraid of CPS, but thats a different thread I suppose..

I would not call CPS if I saw it. I would, and have, stopped and talked to someone who had a child unrestrained and let them know of the law and how unsafe it was. If I saw something that really upset me, I might call police but never CPS. Usually that will result in either a warning with info, or a ticket and not a call to human services.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WitchyMama2* 
Perhaps in your area they have more important things to do. Here? They would "find" more things wrong or outright lie about it. You don't have to be guilty of anything to be afraid of CPS, but thats a different thread I suppose..

From some of the threads I have seen here, it appears as if some CPS offices are not on the up and up. I agree. My point was that CPS shouldn't be called at all on an unrestrained child. It isn't a CPS related offense. It falls under a violation of the motor vehicle operation statute. And your local law enforcement is responsible. Every state has a section or code that addresses what constitutes a violation of that code. So if there are some posters here that would call CPS in this situation, they are wrong. CPS would not have jurisdiction over that. If one is afraid of CPS because they are crooked, then you are right. That is definately a whole other thread.

DC


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## NaomiLorelie (Sep 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treemom2* 
I guess this same argument could be made for vaccinations as well or for well baby visits. What about the people who have DCFS called because they refuse certain medical treatments for their child and are eventually forced into doing it. As I said before, I honestly think for the most part parents love their children and do what they feel is best for them--unless a child is in dire danger (ie, riding in the back of a speeding truck or being beaten or neglected) who are we to judge?

Not taking a healthy thriving child to the doctor is TOTALLY different from not putting a healthy thriving child in a carseat when they are going to ride ina moving vehicle because if that moving vehicle crashes suddenly that healthy child is going to continue moving 65 MPH and be ejected from the vehicle. Doctors are for sick people. The same logic doesn't go for carseats.


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## ~member~ (May 23, 2002)

Just wanted to add something most ppl forget. Even if the kids are all buckled, if the adults are not, their bodies could fly around and kill the restrained children. EVERYONE in a vehicle needs to be in a safety belt, not just children.

Same with securing all loose objects. that can of pop can fly at 65 mph and kill your restrained baby.


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Oka-san* 
....a pickup truck going at 65 mph down the highway. In the back was a little boy of about age 3 or so, all by himself, standing up. The pickup had no gate in the back, so it was just this tiny little boy standing in the back of a speeding truck, nothing to hold onto but the sides of the open truck bed, not even a gate in the back to hold him in if he started tumbling out.

*That's un-freakin'-believable!! Some people are so stupid!*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommabelle* 
It is unsafe and I don't like it, but I see it ALL the time. I don't call the police because I would hate to sic DFACS on an otherwise good family..or in alot of instances the family could possibly be deported. It seems to be a cultural thing alot of the time.

*and*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
Mentally weighing out the odds, it seems far more likely that the child could end up being removed from his/her otherwise good parents. I won't take that risk.

*I'm VERY disappointed with the passive responses here!! It's called Child PROTECTIVE Services for a reason...to PROTECT children! Not even buckling a child in LET ALONE having a proper car seat is the epitome of bad parenting! There's enough information out there that you'd have to live under a rock not to know the safety stats of a carseat and seatbelts! And as for immigrant families...sure, maybe they don't do that where they come from, but they come here; to a different world; to a different way of life...and that's why there's LAWS...to protect ALL children in this country who can't protect themselves. If they don't like the laws, the can move back home!

Look, I know that sounds harsh to immigrants, and that's not my intention at all. But you can bend cultural rules (dress your kid in traditional clothes from your country) but you CANNOT break safety rules. If you're not used to it - GET USED TO IT. I just think it would be incredibly irresponsable NOT to call the police if you saw that. My S/O always says "you can't change the world honey"; but you know what? It's me changing the world one child at a time, and if there were more of 'me'; this world would be a much safer place!








: This post is making me sick...especially since I know there's someone who's going to shake their head at what I just said and rip me apart for it...I just wish I could put all children in a bubble!*


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## beckyand3littlemonsters (Sep 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blu Razzberri* 
*That's un-freakin'-believable!! Some people are so stupid!*

*and*

*I'm VERY disappointed with the passive responses here!! It's called Child PROTECTIVE Services for a reason...to PROTECT children! Not even buckling a child in LET ALONE having a proper car seat is the epitome of bad parenting! There's enough information out there that you'd have to live under a rock not to know the safety stats of a carseat and seatbelts! And as for immigrant families...sure, maybe they don't do that where they come from, but they come here; to a different world; to a different way of life...and that's why there's LAWS...to protect ALL children in this country who can't protect themselves. If they don't like the laws, the can move back home!

Look, I know that sounds harsh to immigrants, and that's not my intention at all. But you can bend cultural rules (dress your kid in traditional clothes from your country) but you CANNOT break safety rules. If you're not used to it - GET USED TO IT. I just think it would be incredibly irresponsable NOT to call the police if you saw that. My S/O always says "you can't change the world honey"; but you know what? It's me changing the world one child at a time, and if there were more of 'me'; this world would be a much safer place!








: This post is making me sick...especially since I know there's someone who's going to shake their head at what I just said and rip me apart for it...I just wish I could put all children in a bubble!*


*I won't rip you apart hun i agree a childs safety is the most important thing, we don't have a car but when we get one we will be buying 3 carseats for our lo's*


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## Canadianmommax3 (Mar 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaInTheBoonies* 
Just wanted to add something most ppl forget. Even if the kids are all buckled, if the adults are not, their bodies could fly around and kill the restrained children. EVERYONE in a vehicle needs to be in a safety belt, not just children.

Same with securing all loose objects. that can of pop can fly at 65 mph and kill your restrained baby.

so true!


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## Blu Razzberri (Sep 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaInTheBoonies* 
...if the adults are not (buckled up), their bodies could fly around and kill the restrained children. EVERYONE in a vehicle needs to be in a safety belt, not just children.

Same with securing all loose objects. that can of pop can fly at 65 mph and kill your restrained baby.

I totally missed this part. I watched a whole show on this where they did tests to show people about the dangers in their car, using crashtest dummies and a dummy kid in a carseat and a dummy teenager...all buckled. The image that most sticks in my head is the penny that was launched forward when the minivan hit a brick wall doing 65mph and lodged halfway into the dashboard!! Just a penny, and if it hit a toddler right, it would kill the child!

Vehicle safety is a big deal...people need to think more about it!


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## OriginalGirlGamer (Jan 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blu Razzberri* 
*That's un-freakin'-believable!! Some people are so stupid!*

*and*

*I'm VERY disappointed with the passive responses here!! It's called Child PROTECTIVE Services for a reason...to PROTECT children! Not even buckling a child in LET ALONE having a proper car seat is the epitome of bad parenting! There's enough information out there that you'd have to live under a rock not to know the safety stats of a carseat and seatbelts! And as for immigrant families...sure, maybe they don't do that where they come from, but they come here; to a different world; to a different way of life...and that's why there's LAWS...to protect ALL children in this country who can't protect themselves. If they don't like the laws, the can move back home!

Look, I know that sounds harsh to immigrants, and that's not my intention at all. But you can bend cultural rules (dress your kid in traditional clothes from your country) but you CANNOT break safety rules. If you're not used to it - GET USED TO IT. I just think it would be incredibly irresponsable NOT to call the police if you saw that. My S/O always says "you can't change the world honey"; but you know what? It's me changing the world one child at a time, and if there were more of 'me'; this world would be a much safer place!








: This post is making me sick...especially since I know there's someone who's going to shake their head at what I just said and rip me apart for it...I just wish I could put all children in a bubble!*


Heh, someone agrees with me. And no, we never called CPS on people who got carseat tickets, all you get is a citation, an expensive one that i was more than happy to give out. What would you rather do, call the cops over a violation like that, or see kids thrown from the car and out onto the road?


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## djinneyah (Sep 4, 2004)

and now to stick my neck on the chopping block...







:

my 3 yo ds knows how to undo his seatbelt (he's in a booster seat). when it's just me and the kids in the car, i do my best, but sometimes ds takes his seatbelt off and tries to climb over next to dd. me being focused on the road ahead, more than once he's escaped his booster seat without me immediately noticing, although i'm sure the drivers around me probably have...

as soon as i notice, i pull over and get ds back into his seat, of course, but say someone saw him moving around unrestrained and called the cops/CPS? i get reprimanded because my kid's a gadget freak and figured out how to undo his belt? that doesn't seem fair..


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Thats why carseats with 5 point restraints are best







You can keep a 3 year old harnessed longer and its not as easy to "escape". (not to mention *much* safer than a booster)


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## djinneyah (Sep 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WitchyMama2* 
Thats why carseats with 5 point restraints are best







You can keep a 3 year old harnessed longer and its not as easy to "escape". (not to mention *much* safer than a booster)

sorry...he knows how to work a 5-point restraint..believe me. he figured that one out at 18 months.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annab* 
If you see a person driving down the road with kids in the car who are young enough to be restrained, but aren't, do you call the police?

I have seen this several times in the last few weeks, and my first instinct is to act in the name of safety and call the cops. But I hate to be the crazy lady always calling the police when I see someone not using carseats.

Thoughts?

I would call. I see tons of parents with kids bouncing around in vehicles here in Indiana and there's often no car seat to be seen so it's not like djinneyah's little guy escaping his 5pt harness.









Who do you call- the local police#? A lot of my driving is between Bedford and Bloomington so I don't know who I'd call in that case.

I'm a stickler for carseats (enough to burn plastic to order ds a Fisher Price Safe Voyage [made by Britax but cheaper] when he outgrew his convertible- he's not mature enough for a booster seat) but I have a friend who is annoyed by the booster seat law in Indiana and all her carseats are old/hand-me-downs.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I have called and I will call again if I see it.

It's just a ticket in Iowa, until your 3rd offence, then DHS is called. My MIL got a ticket for not having my (then) 6 y/o BIL in a booster. She got a $75 ticket. Actually asked her police officer brother to help her get out of it and he told her no flipping way. Pay the ticket and get BIL in a booster, they are only $30 at walmart. She hasn't and is lucky she hasn't got picked up...BIL's 8th bday is this month so he doesn't have to be in a booster anymore.


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## its_our_family (Sep 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WitchyMama2* 
Thats why carseats with 5 point restraints are best







You can keep a 3 year old harnessed longer and its not as easy to "escape". (not to mention *much* safer than a booster)

Yeah, our boys know how to do a 5 point harness and und a 5 point harness. They have learned not to undo them while the car is moving. They have to hear the doors unlock before the seats come off.

We figured letting them learn is a safety thing. We don't have to worry about our boys getting trapped in the car, like if we lock them in accidently while strapping them in etc.

I've actually offered my carseat to ppl, like in a store parking lot. I've even offered to buy one for someone. No one has ever taken me up on it. I'd rather spend the 75 bucks for a seat than see a kid leave a store unrestrained!


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## septmommy (Dec 21, 2003)

I have to say that these posts on Mothering always startle me. So many people make choices here that seem dangerous to others. No vaccines, homebirths, unschooling and so many more would cause great alarm to much of the general population. I understand the urge to protect children that you view to be in harms way, but I really think that calling the police on another family should only be done as a very last resort. A child being beaten is BEING HARMED, a child being starved is BEING HARMED, a child being molested is BEING HARMED. An unrestrained child may be in harms way, but the same argument could be made for your unvaccinated child. When a parent makes choices that could lead to harm, but are not presently harmful I choose to stay out of it. I know I'll get flamed for this, but it's my opinion.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *septmommy* 
I have to say that these posts on Mothering always startle me. So many people make choices here that seem dangerous to others. No vaccines, homebirths, unschooling and so many more would cause great alarm to much of the general population. I understand the urge to protect children that you view to be in harms way, but I really think that calling the police on another family should only be done as a very last resort. A child being beaten is BEING HARMED, a child being starved is BEING HARMED, a child being molested is BEING HARMED. An unrestrained child may be in harms way, but the same argument could be made for your unvaccinated child. When a parent makes choices that could lead to harm, but are not presently harmful I choose to stay out of it. I know I'll get flamed for this, but it's my opinion.

Good posting.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *septmommy* 
I have to say that these posts on Mothering always startle me. So many people make choices here that seem dangerous to others. No vaccines, homebirths, unschooling and so many more would cause great alarm to much of the general population. I understand the urge to protect children that you view to be in harms way, but I really think that calling the police on another family should only be done as a very last resort. A child being beaten is BEING HARMED, a child being starved is BEING HARMED, a child being molested is BEING HARMED. An unrestrained child may be in harms way, but the same argument could be made for your unvaccinated child. When a parent makes choices that could lead to harm, but are not presently harmful I choose to stay out of it. I know I'll get flamed for this, but it's my opinion.

A part of me agrees- and yet I think about scenarios like what if this person with a child bouncing around in the backseat pulls out in front of me and I hit them? Even if wasn't my fault, I'd feel bad that a child was injured.


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## septmommy (Dec 21, 2003)

Quote:

A part of me agrees- and yet I think about scenarios like what if this person with a child bouncing around in the backseat pulls out in front of me and I hit them? Even if wasn't my fault, I'd feel bad that a child was injured.
Yes, as would I. I would feel terrible to be in any accident and even more so if an innocent child was harmed. I am certainly not debating that leaving a child unrestrained is dangerous. I just think we could all get into a lot of trouble playing the "What if" game.


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## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *septmommy* 
I have to say that these posts on Mothering always startle me. So many people make choices here that seem dangerous to others. No vaccines, homebirths, unschooling and so many more would cause great alarm to much of the general population. I understand the urge to protect children that you view to be in harms way, but I really think that calling the police on another family should only be done as a very last resort. A child being beaten is BEING HARMED, a child being starved is BEING HARMED, a child being molested is BEING HARMED. An unrestrained child may be in harms way, but the same argument could be made for your unvaccinated child. When a parent makes choices that could lead to harm, but are not presently harmful I choose to stay out of it. I know I'll get flamed for this, but it's my opinion.

No flames from me. Applause, but no flames.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *septmommy* 
I understand the urge to protect children that you view to be in harms way, but I really think that calling the police on another family should only be done as a very last resort.


What do you think should be done then, if one sees a child riding unrestrained??


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *septmommy* 
An unrestrained child may be in harms way, but the same argument could be made for your unvaccinated child.

I totally disagree with you on that. There's quite a few differences between an unrestrained child in a moving car and not vaccinating. First, vaccination is not law (there are exemptions); child restraints are. Secondly, the choice not to vaccinate does not endanger the child; an un-restrained child does endanger that child. There are thousands of documented wrecks which seriously injure or kill unrestrained occupants in MVC every year; and lastly, not vaccinating does not affect anyone else, stranger or familial, while unrestrained occupants cause not only bodily harm to themselves and the occupants in that vehicle, they also cost society as a whole hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Dallaschildren
CPSI and momma to 2 sons in seats

You control your child's health by supplying a healthy diet which affects immunological response. You control whether or not to vaccinate. You CANNOT control how other people drive (not to mention weather conditions). You could be the most conscientious driver in the world, but it means nothing unless you are the only one on the road.


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## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren* 
the choice not to vaccinate does not endanger the child;

There are thousands of people who would disagree with that statement, and that seems to be the point the PP was trying to make.

Call the police if you want, but I don't think you're going to change the minds of those of us who are dis-inclined to do so in similar circumstances.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hhurd* 
There are thousands of people who would disagree with that statement, and that seems to be the point the PP was trying to make.

Call the police if you want, but I don't think you're going to change the minds of those of us who are dis-inclined to do so in similar circumstances.

Why then is the PP not vaccinating? A bit OT, but a fair question in light of what she posted as an analogy. VAERS.
I am not trying to persuade you or others who subscribe to "I'm not going to get involved". By not being involved you are doing society and innocent kids a disservice but hey, it's America. Land of the free to make your own choice.







I will continue to choose to call the cops if I see your child unrestrained.

DC


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annab* 
If you see a person driving down the road with kids in the car who are young enough to be restrained, but aren't, do you call the police?

I have seen this several times in the last few weeks, and my first instinct is to act in the name of safety and call the cops. But I hate to be the crazy lady always calling the police when I see someone not using carseats.

Thoughts?


Annab. Please exercise your right to call the police each and everytime you see a child unrestrained. Document the color and make of the car and the license plate number. Make note of your location so when you call in you are prepared to let the police know which way they are travelling. The unrestrained child would thank you if they could. Thank you for caring enough to get involved. It takes a village.

DC


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## Teensy (Feb 22, 2002)

Traffic accidents are the number one non-health related killer of children ages 1-4. Drowning is a close second.

http://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broke...deathtle=Death

Would I call the police? Absolutely!

Ten Leading Causes of Death by Age Group (2003)
ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/ncipc/10LC-2003/PDF/10lc-2003.pdf
Kind of interesting.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Teensy* 
Traffic accidents are the number one non-health related killer of children ages 1-4. Drowning is a close second.

http://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broke...deathtle=Death

Would I call the police? Absolutely!

Ten Leading Causes of Death by Age Group (2003)
ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/ncipc/10LC-2003/PDF/10lc-2003.pdf
Kind of interesting.

Thanks Tanya. How does the saying go..."it's never going to be my child". Well, it's SOMEONE'S child.


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## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren* 
I will continue to choose to call the cops if I see your child unrestrained.

You will not see my child unrestrained. He is in a carseat every time the car is moving. Do not extrapolate that I am careless about carseats simply because I don't call the police when I witness strangers not being as careful myself.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

I was shocked to see some with an infant just hold the infant in the car, they didn't even have a car seat in there. Here the police will give you a carseat and show you how to install it properly.


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## Nature (Mar 12, 2005)

Personally, they don't let you leave the hospital here unless you have a carseat AND they inspect it to make sure the baby is in right, and its installed correctly. I guess they don't do that everywhere?


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WitchyMama2* 
Personally, they don't let you leave the hospital here unless you have a carseat AND they inspect it to make sure the baby is in right, and its installed correctly. I guess they don't do that everywhere?









They do that here too, the police give out the convertable one.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hhurd* 
You will not see my child unrestrained. He is in a carseat every time the car is moving. Do not extrapolate that I am careless about carseats simply because I don't call the police when I witness strangers not being as careful myself.

I guess I thought this would go without saying, but "your" was general and I didn't pull out of any of your posts that you yourself don't buckle your child up. What I did read quite clearly was that you wouldn't call the cops to protect the health and well being of a stranger's child, if you saw them unrestrained. Yeah, I got that.

DC


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## septmommy (Dec 21, 2003)

I don't want to debate. The OP asked for opinions and I gave mine. I am not trying to change yours, please don't be rude about mine.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *septmommy* 
I don't want to debate. The OP asked for opinions and I gave mine. I am not trying to change yours, please don't be rude about mine.


When you post an opinion and throw out there everything but the kitchen sink within the post, you should be prepared to debate it. If you don't want to discuss it or answer my question, that is your perogative. But don't dimiss other points of view by calling them rude.


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## Joannarachel (Dec 10, 2005)

As a paramedic, I couldn't agree less with the comparison to homebirthing, vaccinating etc.

A child who is being birthed at home or non-vaccinated is not actively in harm's way.

A child not in a carseat is.

Statistically, a homebirthed baby is LESS likely to die than a hospital-birthed one. Statistically, an unrestrained child is MORE likely to die than a restrained one.

I will call the police. I have called the police. I have talked to perfect strangers. Once I got knocked over by a psycho when confronting her about her unrestrained infant (So I don't confront psychos anymore







: )


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## Squeakyneedle (Jul 11, 2005)

I was thinking of all of you today, (I started reading this thread last night) while driving with all 4 of my children strapped in their car seats...but our now outgrown infant seat in the front passenger seat as we drove to see if we could "cash it in" at the local OM store for a different, more comfy stroller. I was horrified someone would see that seat, sitting sideways no less, and think there was a baby in it and call the cops on me! Of course, there would be no issue because the seat is empty...but you all have made me think.

For me, the bottom line is that with carseats, there is law. If you see someone breaking a law, do you choose to get involved and call the authorities? For the example of birthing decisions there is no "law" and so we are unable to judge what is legally appropriate. It comes down to differences in beliefs and parenting. Car seat laws supercede any differences in parenting philosphies, and IMHO you'd have to be living under a rock in this country (US) to not know your kid has to be in a seat. So I won't ever accept an ignorance excuse. The only excuse people can claim (but usually don't) is stupidity.







:

As for the original question...I honestly don't know if I would call the cops. I would probably do that over confronting the person, say in a parking lot or something, but that's just because I'm too afraid someone will totally go bonkers on me for poking my nose in. Chances are they know they are doing something wrong and in my experience guilty people usually aren't very nice when they get called on it.


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *septmommy* 
I have to say that these posts on Mothering always startle me. So many people make choices here that seem dangerous to others. No vaccines, homebirths, unschooling and so many more would cause great alarm to much of the general population. I understand the urge to protect children that you view to be in harms way, but I really think that calling the police on another family should only be done as a very last resort. A child being beaten is BEING HARMED, a child being starved is BEING HARMED, a child being molested is BEING HARMED. An unrestrained child may be in harms way, but the same argument could be made for your unvaccinated child. When a parent makes choices that could lead to harm, but are not presently harmful I choose to stay out of it. I know I'll get flamed for this, but it's my opinion.

I'm not going to flame you as I have the same opinion! Good posting!


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## septmommy (Dec 21, 2003)

Quote:

When you post an opinion and throw out there everything but the kitchen sink within the post, you should be prepared to debate it. If you don't want to discuss it or answer my question, that is your perogative. But don't dimiss other points of view by calling them rude.
I re-read my first post and I have to admit that you are right. I did more than just offer my opinion. I apologize for my last post. A few points have been brought up that have made me think. The legal aspect does set this apart from vaccines etc, but even that is not clear cut. Have you reported every friend that smokes a joint? Every friend who has driven home from a party after more than one drink? I'm sure someone here has, but I doubt the majority can say yes. We all make judgement calls and some of us (sometimes) see the involving of authorities as the bigger threat. Those of us who feel one way about this will not change the minds of those who feel another way. We are all intelligent women who do what we feel is best. Now I have a novel to write in response to some previous posts, but I will take my own advice and shut up. I know that everyone here has valid points that they feel passionatly about.


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## Meg Murry. (Sep 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Squeakyneedle* 
If you see someone breaking a law, do you choose to get involved and call the authorities? .

To protect a child? Yes. I believe it is unethical to do otherwise.


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren* 
the choice not to vaccinate does not endanger the child

This is a blanket statement and could be argued with. But, I won't go there


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## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dallaschildren* 
I guess I thought this would go without saying, but "your" was general

I guess it goes without saying that using the phrase "a child" rather than "your child" is preferable if you are *really* trying to speak generally.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hhurd* 
I guess it goes without saying that using the phrase "a child" rather than "your child" is preferable if you are *really* trying to speak generally.


Ok, let's think logically for a moment without anger or sarcasm, shall we? How in the world would I be calling the police on *you* and *your* child when we aren't even in the same state? The fact is you chose to take this thread as a personal affront when in actuality I simply disagreed with the analogies being presented. You stated your opinion with a "me neither" and some disagree with the fact that you won't call. Breathe deeply and let it go. You can take it to me via PM.

DC


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmommy* 
This is a blanket statement and could be argued with. But, I won't go there









Thanks, because there is a forum for discussing vaccinations here and then there is also VAERS.


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## jessikate (Jul 19, 2002)

I called the police a few weeks ago about an unrestrained child. I gave them the make, model, and license plate # of the car and in what direction it was headed. They sent an officer out to talk to me, and he said he'd go pay them a visit to talk about carseat requirements.

The officer wasn't really well-educated about carseat safety guidelines and said that they only have to be in a harnessed carseat until 4 years/40lbs (which is sadly the extent of the law), but hopefully the kid is still small enough to fall under that law and/or her mother gets an education about carseats and boosters.

I would not hesitate to call the police over a carseat issue. I don't believe child protective services would get involved over one complaint, and even if they do, it's still better than a potentially deadly car accident.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blu Razzberri* 
If they don't like the laws, the can move back home!

Look, I know that sounds harsh to immigrants, and that's not my intention at all. But you can bend cultural rules (dress your kid in traditional clothes from your country) but you CANNOT break safety rules. If you're not used to it - GET USED TO IT. I just think it would be incredibly irresponsable NOT to call the police if you saw that. My S/O always says "you can't change the world honey"; but you know what? It's me changing the world one child at a time, and if there were more of 'me'; this world would be a much safer place!








: This post is making me sick...especially since I know there's someone who's going to shake their head at what I just said and rip me apart for it...I just wish I could put all children in a bubble![/B]

I think maybe you are getting pretty emotional about this topic and it is clouding your ability to see things from another person's point of view.

of course the U.S. has all kinds of laws and norms that are different from other countries. That really is not the point.

The point is cultural conditioning. Here in the U.S. right now carseats are all the rage. They are discussed a lot and it is seen as very black and white by most people.

If you come from a country where that is simply not emphasized and doesn't have the same kind of education, you would come to the U.S. and initially not even realize it's an issue. Then when you realized it was an issue, you would shake your head and say "Man.. those Americans! Back home nobody ever did that kind of thing".

After a while you would probably get more information and become educated. But until that time you would probably be careless about it.

We do many dangerous things here that would appall people in other countries. Using a hospital for birthing would be seen as really stupid to some people; if an American went to another country where homebirthing was really popular, do you think they would automatically homebirth? Or push more for a hospital birth? What about using pain drugs at childbirth? That's very much a part of the culture here, despite being dangerous and having way too many unknowns.

I think instead of ranting and raving about how stupid people are and what horrible parents they are, maybe if we genuinely try to see things from another person's point of view it might be more helpful in the long run. Since we all share the same planet and stuff.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

P.S. I just wanted to mention that this is why interacting and sharing more with other countries and cultures is so valuable. In American right now we have reasonably good awareness of car seats. We are intensely dense on some other topics, though. By sharing and learning about what other cultures value, you can really question why things are the way they are and make better decisions about parenting and life in general, I think.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I almost called the police on a mother today and decided against it...it was a mama (I assume) and another woman. Both younger, early to mid-twenties. They had an approx 18-24 month old baby boy...in a belt poss booster...with just a lap belt, the sholder belt they put behind the car seat because he was still too short. I saw the whole thing because they were parked next to me. Thinking about it now I wish I had called the cops on them...


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristiMetz* 
P.S. I just wanted to mention that this is why interacting and sharing more with other countries and cultures is so valuable. In American right now we have reasonably good awareness of car seats. We are intensely dense on some other topics, though. By sharing and learning about what other cultures value, you can really question why things are the way they are and make better decisions about parenting and life in general, I think.

This is so true! I've learned so much about other cultures and really have found that there is a lot we can all learn from one another. I do know that here in Japan carseats are not the norm or the law, but then again, the highest speed limit is about 70km (maybe 50 mph). If a person is caught going over that the fine is at least $700-$800.00 and if a person is going 30kph over that they go to jail. People here don't drink and drive. If you drink and drive (limit is .01--1 drink) you go to jail. It seems the only people who tend to break this law are the Americans because the Japanese just don't do it. People here also drive way more carefully since there is never just one person at fault in an accident and people here really have more of a sense of not harming others in any way. It's pretty cool actually!


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Homebirth I'm postive is statistically safer.
Vaccinations-there's research on both sides.
Car Accidents as someone has posted are the number one cause of death of small children.
An unrestrained child is in serious danger.

How many times do we drive per day or week.

I drive my kids through several dangerous intersections at least twice a day (to and from school) and often more than that (if we go to the park or store FE).

These are streets in residential neighborhoods but it doesn't matter. I see people driving 40-50 miles per hour. They drive 30-40 mph in the alleys behind the houses.

We live near a college campus. Most students live off campus and hundreds drive to class, work etc.

This is not even mentioning the people driving in town.

The risk is much greater than a bad outcome for a homebirth or a vaccine reaction.

I just hate to see preventable deaths happen. A couple of years ago there were two. A 3 yo not in a booster and a 2 yo in a seatbelt. Minor accidents in both cases and all the belted adults were fine but the kids were two small for the belts and they were ejected from their seats.

Our local health dept. rents car seats for 10 dollars. I would have paid the 10 dollars gladly to keep those kids alive.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annab* 
If you see a person driving down the road with kids in the car who are young enough to be restrained, but aren't, do you call the police?

I have seen this several times in the last few weeks, and my first instinct is to act in the name of safety and call the cops. But I hate to be the crazy lady always calling the police when I see someone not using carseats.

Thoughts?


I call everytime I see this and try to get the license plate or at least a description of the car and the current location.

I have even called the police on my coworkers (and they know it and we are good friends).

They now use carseats around me, but by the action of their children I know they don't use them any other time. The kids ask WHY they have to get in a carseat







: and they don't put it on automatically.

For them it's a control thing. They think I just want to be controlling. I don't think they realize their children not wearing a seatbelt might affect me if I am driving on the road with them (unbuckled children can be a distraction to the driver whose full attention should be on the road and conditions around her/him). What if a child bumped the driver and caused the driver to swerve and hit me?

Oy, don't get me started.


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

It's interesting to me that there are so many mamas on here who see lots and lots of unrestrained kids. Where I live, I've maybe seen one EVER. What I do see (and which drives me crazy but probably doesn't rise to the level of calling the police) is kids who aren't strapped in tightly enough. Those straps are supposed to be a whole lot tighter than a lot of people make them. What area of the country do some of you live in who see lots of unrestrained kids?


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
It's interesting to me that there are so many mamas on here who see lots and lots of unrestrained kids. Where I live, I've maybe seen one EVER. What I do see (and which drives me crazy but probably doesn't rise to the level of calling the police) is kids who aren't strapped in tightly enough. Those straps are supposed to be a whole lot tighter than a lot of people make them. What area of the country do some of you live in who see lots of unrestrained kids?

I'm in Fairfield County CT. I don't think I've actually ever seen an unrestrained child. However, the police around here are crazy about it. That and seatbelts. I have friends that have been ticketed for not wearing seatbelts. I think the police around here are pretty bored and are looking for people to pull over for something to do. People are pretty careful around here because of it.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rainyday* 
It's interesting to me that there are so many mamas on here who see lots and lots of unrestrained kids. Where I live, I've maybe seen one EVER. What I do see (and which drives me crazy but probably doesn't rise to the level of calling the police) is kids who aren't strapped in tightly enough. Those straps are supposed to be a whole lot tighter than a lot of people make them. What area of the country do some of you live in who see lots of unrestrained kids?


I live in Rockingham, NC and see it all the time, several times a week. I see them at the bank, fast food restaurents, driving from grocery store parking lots, driving by me in the car. Not loose belts, but children be-bopping around the backseats. Just this evening a friend and I went to her bank to deposit her check through the drive-thru window. Right next to us was a co0worker. Her 4 year old was bouncing around in the backseat. She and I have had it out before about the carseat issue and she wouldn't even look at me this evening.







:


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## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

I guess I've seen it when visiting relatives in other parts of the country. I know that in Oklahoma I saw three young children just bopping around the back of a pickup truck, and I was shocked. I just do not understand why people who know better (like Potty Diva's coworker) let their kids ride that way.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I live in south central Indiana and see unrestrained children quite often. Today I saw a 2-3yo child sitting in a regular seatbelt.









Several weeks ago my friend saw a child strapped into one of these in a car.


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## Potty Diva (Jun 18, 2003)

Uh, Michelle...

It DOES have a 3 point restraint system, duh.


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## aslmere (Feb 16, 2003)

Just playing a bit of devil's advocate here.

Even though I am truly horrified when I see children unrestrained or improperly restrained I have to wonder where the line should be drawn at.

I know that this isn't the best comparison... but it shows the slippery slope...

It has been shown over and over again that carseats are safer than not being restrained. It is generally accepted by american society that this is best.
(I have first hand experience...DS would have died too if he had not been properly restrained.)

American society also generally accepts what is fed to them about vaccinations and western medicine. CPS/Police are called far too often because some of us don't accept.
(and yes I have first hand experience on this as well)

I guess I am having a hard time making my exact point.
Why is okay for one and not the other? What perspective are we truly looking at this issue from? Are we being just as discriminative as those we claim to discriminate because we don't follow the mainstream and accepted society.

Car seats protect children and we all want all children to be protected. But some argue that vaccinations protect children and want all children to be protected.

Am I making any sense?

Nina


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I live in a small town in south central Iowa, it's TERRIBLE here. I've called the police on unrestrained kids probably 10 times, just since DS was born.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *busybusymomma* 
I live in south central Indiana and see unrestrained children quite often. Today I saw a 2-3yo child sitting in a regular seatbelt.









Several weeks ago my friend saw a child strapped into one of these in a car.









I feel really bad for those parents. It is not surprising to me. I truly believe that someone, somewhere at sometime suggested that their 2-3 year old go into a booster seat, and this is what they thought it meant. I have seen MUCH MUCH worse. Oh, I am sad.







: Now I won't be able to get them out of my head.







:

DC


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## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

I would call without a question. I nearly lost my mom and little sister in a car crash. I have lost an uncle and several friends to car crashes. This is not a debate about parenting philosophy or choices. Car crashes kill people, they kill children. They are the leading cause of death for children and adults ages 1 to 34. This is a very serious issue. I find it truly hard to believe that CPS is interested in hunting down parents who get a car seat violation and taking their children. I don't think it is more than a ticket (if that) in any state. These threads are suprising to me... I find it hard to defend not putting your child in a car seat.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

I think the difference between carseats and vaccines is that (to the best of my knowledge), no child has ever died from simply being strapped in a carseat. The same cannot be said about vaccines - and I do have firsthand knowledge of that unfortunately.

That said, I don't see children freely roaming around the backseat, in fact I saw it once and was so shocked by the time I got over the shock enough to think about talking to the parents, the car was gone. If I saw a child of any age in the back of a pickup, I would call the cops. -I saw a dog perched on top of metal doors in the back of a pickup once and I got out at the light and yelled at the driver. If I saw a child unrestrained in the back of a car, I would just say something to the parents.


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## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aslmere* 
Car seats protect children and we all want all children to be protected. But some argue that vaccinations protect children and want all children to be protected.

Am I making any sense?

Nina

You're making sense to me. I hear you Nina.


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## grypx831 (May 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *busybusymomma* 
I live in south central Indiana and see unrestrained children quite often. Today I saw a 2-3yo child sitting in a regular seatbelt.









Several weeks ago my friend saw a child strapped into one of these in a car.









My dad put me in one of those when I was little, because he didn't understand the "booster seat" thing.


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## rainbowmoon (Oct 17, 2003)

it is really common to see kids not in carseats where I live. (I am on the border of Mexico and I don't think it's a law there, but lots of people cross the line daily). I mean how do they ticket and enforce it when the car is registered in Mexico? I'm not sure the police here would do much to tell you the truth.


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## Jwebbal (May 31, 2004)

I always call. Quite frankly I am shocked that people are comparing car seats with vaccines. As the partner of an ER worker, I don't want her coming home ONE MORE TIME to tell me the story of some kid who got killed because they weren't restrained properly. It breaks my heart every time she tells me, and I let her because obviously she needs to tell someone her heart is broken from witnessing the whole thing, at least I don't have to witness it first hand. I always tell these two stories, about the 12 yo told by her aunt to hold her baby cousin in the back seat, they were in an accident, the baby was ejected. No one in the family wanted to tell the girl the baby died, I am sure it will weigh on her mind for the rest of her life "if only I had held her tighter", the aunt should be prosecuted for manslaughter imo. Or the story of an unrestrained baby ejected from the car during a crash, it was dark, the EMS workers and police spent an hour trying to find the baby by the side of the road. Imagine how difficult that would be...... call the police if you see children unrestrained, seriously.


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## Steady101 (Jun 24, 2004)

I always call.


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

It's not very common to see children unrestrained here, but the few times I have, I've called the police. Talking to the parents is a nice idea, in theory, but I'm not willing to chance confronting someone who might shoot me (which is always a possibility).


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