# My cousin, the OB



## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

I'm currently 34w with my first, and my cousin, who is my age, just finished her OB residency. I'm having the baby at a birth center, with just DH and the MW and I, and everyone is being really supportive. I think they think I'm a little crazy, but they totally respect my decisions and are really encouraging.

Anyways.

We're at my shower, and my cousin the OB starts talking about how she's attended ONE "natural" birth (meaning the woman got pit, but no epidural







) and done X number of c-sections, etc. She said "I give you a lot of credit, because when I have a baby, I'm just going to schedule my c-section at 36 weeks. There was just WAY too much screaming going on in that natural birth. Besides, I'll have Dr. X do it and he can give me a tummy tuck while he's in there."










I should have just gone on about how giving pitocin means they've already interfered with her natural birth, and how much pain the poor woman was probably in because of the pit contrax, etc. I just couldn't believe it! I couldn't believe she only attended one "natural" birth and was so casual about major surgery!

Oh, and later on, she said she'd never heard of a doula before, and couldn't understand why anyone would need someone like that in a delivery room. I was prepared enough for that, so I was able to tell her that she probably wouldn't be seeing many in her c-section/tummy-tuck practice.

Can you imagine? Wow. A month out of school. I hope she gets more experience and her attitude changes, but I doubt it.


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Good luck with your natural birth. Maybe if you film it, you can show her. And charge her since you are educating her.

I once told a doctor that she was "un-educated". She simply did not know what I meant by that. I think you know what I meant by that, don't you? Your cousin knows about technological birth, but nothing of natural birth.

And it is OK to scream, if you want.

There is education and there is "longer education" and "over-education".


----------



## meganmarie (Jan 29, 2005)

At a dinner party in Dec I met someone who was in the midst of an OB/GYN residency and she said all she did was surgery. Its funny, I guess maybe we should almost cut doctors some slack for being so ignorant, they are only acting as they've been taught. If only there was some way to change what happens in med school...


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

You say doctors are ignorant, and I say they are uneducated, but I think we both know what we mean, don't you?

The medical school regiment dehumanizes doctors, at least most of them, it seems. Too bad, since so many of them go in to the field with the highest of ideals and desires to help people.


----------



## Xenopus (Nov 23, 2006)

I guess maybe we should almost cut doctors some slack for being so ignorant, they are only acting as they've been taught.
This is true. They are heavily indoctrinated that their services are going to be necessary for 90% of births. And what profession doesn't do this? Can you imagine a master plumber saying, "I'm glad most people don't need me. Most plumbing problems are simply solved by the home-owner." Or the auto-mechanic? Or the hairdresser? "Gee, I love the new no-frills styles - people are learning to cut their own hair. That's great."

If you think about it, their identities and their livelihoods are linked to the notion that birth is a catastrophic medical emergency, and that their patients NEED their intervention, or they'll die. I hear labor nurses talking about childbirth without drugs as "the Dark Ages" and medieval torture, etc etc. Their culture is not to identify with mothers as life-givers, who are most of the time, competent to manage their own labor and deliver without interference, but as patients to be "handled"... and billed.

Good luck with your birth, OP, I'll be going to the hospital for mine... only if my midwife tells me I have to. ;-)

love
Xen


----------



## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *applejuice* 
The medical school regiment dehumanizes doctors, at least most of them, it seems. Too bad, since so many of them go in to the field with the highest of ideals and desires to help people.

Too bad they didn't make something like this mandatory: http://www.amsa.org/heart/

I have a friend enrolled in that. There is hope for the future.


----------



## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

They should be teaching the surgeons about Natural Orifice Surgery.

It is all over the news and heath news. It is the "Wave of the Future".









Yeah! For every medical doctor except OBs. For them, they teach major abdominal surgery.


----------



## amaayeh (Jan 26, 2008)

I have a cousin JUST like that. She is an ER doc, though. She is due in July and my mom told me the other day that she and her doctor are trying to come up with an excuse to give her a c-section.







What I said to my mom was, "I honestly wouldn't expect anything different. After all, she IS a doctor." I think it's like pp said, they are indoctrinated to think that cutting is 'normal' no matter the situation. I just think it's so sad for her and her baby that due to this indoctrination, the baby won't bond, nurse, be held, will be circumcised, give n every shot without question, etc. It's not that he won't _live_, but it really makes me nauseous to think he won't feel connected to his parents. She said she doesn't even know if she can take 6 weeks off work because it would drive her nuts to be home with a baby. WHY are you having one?? Sorry. I just think it's sad what our medical community thinks is 'normal.'


----------



## maryeb (Aug 8, 2005)

Yikes. My younger sister is now in residency and when I was pregnant with my first she was all over my case about how she read one article that said waterbirth is dangerous, how will they breathe, etc. She also called me to say she just attended a lecture about circumcision and the speaker said all uncut boys get infections, so please will I change my mind and circ my little guy when he is born (not to mention she didn't want him made fun of when older). Ugh. She never ever saw a natural birth during her ob/gyn rotation. Not one. By natural I mean no drugs/induction, etc. She wanted to come to my homebirth because she thought she "needed to see this!" After her vaccination lecture she called to start an argument with me because she rightly assumed we weren't vaxing, and the presenter only discussed how babies die if they are not vaccinated. That was it.

The poster that stated they are uneducated is so correct. Thankfully my sister is not going into OB, but she is going into Pediatrics. I'm hoping with age and experience she will get some wisdom, but it seems unlikely. She is so cut down from this process, and yes somewhat dehumanized. It amazes me how indoctrinated she is...


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
Too bad they didn't make something like this mandatory: http://www.amsa.org/heart/

I have a friend enrolled in that. There is hope for the future.









Dr. Mendelsohn had something in mind for a new kind of medical school in which medical doctors would interact with midwives, herbalists, chiropractors, homeopaths to have a broader view of healing and working with patients. But he died before he got anything off the ground. I had donated to it and corresponded with him about it.


----------



## Ladybyrd (Sep 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amaayeh* 
I think it's like pp said, they are indoctrinated to think that cutting is 'normal' no matter the situation. I just think it's so sad for her and her baby that due to this indoctrination, the baby *won't bond*, nurse, be held, will be circumcised, give n every shot without question, etc.

I'd like to ask for clarification before I get upset by this. I hope you're not implying that babies born via c-section won't bond. Are you? Because it just isn't true.

TIA


----------



## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ladybyrd* 
I'd like to ask for clarification before I get upset by this. I hope you're not implying that babies born via c-section won't bond. Are you? Because it just isn't true.

TIA

I don't think that is what she meant, she referred to different things there besides c-section.


----------



## sunnymw (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *abimommy* 
I don't think that is what she meant, she referred to different things there besides c-section.

Yes, and when you put together ALL of the things listed, it sure does make it a little harder


----------



## Treece (Apr 5, 2006)

My ds2 had an ~almost~ natural birth in the hospital. I say almost cuz the doc insisted on staydol b4 the cnm arrrived. it was attended by one student doc and he got to see a tear that was left unsutured







. oh and healed just fine thank you.


----------



## jessjgh1 (Nov 4, 2004)

my good friend from college is a pedi.... from her training she choose natural birth because natural birth is safest for the baby.
In her residency they were also all required to spend some time working the OBGYN rotation with a midwife group. I believe this was all residents, not just those planning on ob/gyn or pedis.

And she at least admits she is a bit likely to be biased on many issues because she sees worst case scenarios.

I wish she was 'crunchy' too, but she's pretty mainstream, and I don't see her that much so I don't get to talk about much.

Jessica


----------



## amaayeh (Jan 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ladybyrd* 
I'd like to ask for clarification before I get upset by this. I hope you're not implying that babies born via c-section won't bond. Are you? Because it just isn't true.

TIA

NO, I'm NOT AT ALL saying that babies born via c-section won't bond. NO, no, no. I am saying that I'm afraid they won't bond because she doesn't see the value in holding a baby, nurturing it, etc. I'm sorry for not stating that clearly. I know my cousin and she is very cold and very into what the latest 'fad' is...aka Babywise.


----------



## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *applejuice* 
There is education and there is "longer education" and "over-education".

Or . . . to pilfer and paraphrase Mark Twain, _schooling_ can interfere with _education._ How beautifully that sums up OB training....

These doctors would get a good _education_ if they would sit as hands-off witnesses to a natural, normal birth, ideally out-of-hospital. I read one doctor's account of how utterly terrified (read: awestruck) he was by the experience. Very humbling. For the first time, the laboring _woman_ had all the power.


----------



## RoxyJas (May 11, 2007)

Her reaction is so sad, but not surprising.









My best friend's little sister is in her last semester of RN schooling to be a labor and delivery nurse, and she actually makes fun and imitates noises mothers make when laboring naturally. She thinks I am absolutely nuts and just trying to "prove something" because I am planning a NCB VBAC and sent me an email telling me how my uterus could rupture and I could bleed out and die in 3 minutes.


----------



## JustVanessa (Sep 7, 2005)

My mom is an RN and firnly convinced I am going to die from a rupture.







I sent her some articles from here and basically said, then why is my doc willing to do it then mom?


----------



## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smeisnotapirate* 
IShe said "I give you a lot of credit, because when I have a baby, I'm just going to schedule my c-section at 36 weeks.

Why 36 weeks? I know technically it's full term, but isn't it risky to hasten things?


----------



## La Limena (Apr 16, 2008)

OB/GYN is a surgical specialty which is great for someone wanting to be a surgeon but is brings the consequence of not being so great for normal pregnant women.

I am a surgical subspecialist, but when I applied to medical school I planned on going into women's health (even wrote a great paper on the history of midwifery in America and one on the rise of cesarean sections as an undergrad). I found during my OB clerkship (at a large county facility) that there was just too much intervention and panic and clock watching in the field so I decided to pursue a different field rather than subject my future patients to the over medicalization of a natural process. As a student and then intern (at a community hospital) I got to assist at many a c section but I do not recall seeing a single intervention free birth. Nope, not one.

I didn't find medical education to be too dehumanizing, I think that medicine just attracts an interesting variety of personalities. If one is kind of cold and distant to begin with they are going to treat their patients this way, whereas if one is more holistic and humanistic, it will likely lead to a humanistic approach to patient care (my personal & professional philosophy).

So...you might luck out and find a great open minded OB in your area (like I did with DS#1) or you might be totally out of luck and find no good OBs in your area (like me right now with DS#2, I am using a midwife for a planned homebirth).


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *La Limena* 
OB/GYN is a surgical specialty which is great for someone wanting to be a surgeon but is brings the consequence of not being so great for normal pregnant women.

I didn't find medical education to be too dehumanizing, I think that *medicine just attracts an interesting variety of personalities*. If one is kind of cold and distant to begin with they are going to treat their patients this way, whereas if one is more holistic and humanistic, it will likely lead to a humanistic approach to patient care (my personal & professional philosophy).

Excellent points.

Welcome!


----------



## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

i was going to point out what la limena already did, which is that OB/GYN is a surgical speciality, and so it's beneficial for them to spend the majority of their training in surgery. i would rather that surgeries be safe as possible with good training, then have an untrained or inexperienced surgeon handling any surgical procedures.

with this, and as a matter of medical availibility and equity, i believe that doctors should educate patients about what they do and when they are necessary and when they are not in order to provide the best possible care and create space in their practices for women who truly need their services.

by this, i mean it would be better to inform the client that they are surgeons and specialists, necessary for those women who will most likely require some form of intervention or surgery in order to deliver a child in a safe manner.

these women do exist, and i believe enough of them exist to maintain a healthy practice for the doctor even though s/he would be missing out on "everyone else."

but because these doctors are often have too many clients anyway, it would make sense to start telling people to go to other kinds of caregivers so that their speciality is available to those women who need it most.

part of this, too, though requires the individual person to go out and figure out that these people are specialists. there are times for specialists--that is certain--but we can determine whether or not we need one.

as an example, i went to an opthemologist for years due to my specialized eye conditions. the opthemologist is there for my surgerical and specialized needs which now no longer exist due t o the work of the opthemologist when i was a child. therefore, i can go to an optometrist instead.

it is upsetting that people--whether doctors or not--become enamored with a particular procedure such that everything is a nail to their hammer. of course, we're all guilty of this sort of practice, i would say, but it's particularly difficult when you're sitting in a completely different perspective AND it's a minority perspective AND the other person is hammering away!

i'm very weird to my family too. i've been encouraged to do all sorts of things that they think is best. i've been as open as i could with information--which they either accept as real or they don't. it's fine if they don't; but i expect them to be respectful and decent when around me and discussing my process.

and i'm fine to discuss their process (my mother loves to talk about her natural hospital births--which in the 70s were natural hospital births) as well, as long as there is no implication that i must follow suit.


----------



## doctorjen (May 29, 2003)

Doing my OB rotation convinced me right out of doing OB. In fact, I came home after my first shift and cried and cried because I went to med school because I was interested in women's health/maternity care and by the end of that first shift I knew I could never do THAT. I didn't realize before I went to medical school what it meant that OB/Gyne was a surgical speciality. The training is heavily surgically focused - in most programs it is only in the first year that you even do a lot of vaginal births (I won't say "normal")

Fortunately, I figured out in time that I could be a family doc and still attend births, and bring a different perspective. I practice in a small town and do about a third of the births in my hospital (around 70 a year.) I am frequently asked why I didn't pursue OB because don't I wish I could do my own surgeries and the answer is a resounding NO. I feel the majority of births should be attended by non-surgical birth attendants. Preferably midwives, but I think generalist physicians can do a good job as well. I tell my clients that being a non-surgeon means that no one in my practice ever has a cesarean because I have dinner plans - I have to consult for surgery, and I have to have a reason that a consultant agrees is valid.

I think it is quite hard for the average person to overcome their surgical training as an OB and attend a birth wihtout seeing pathology at every turn. Not impossible, as their are great OBs out there who have the skill of attending a normal birth, but really hard.


----------



## Belia (Dec 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RoxyJas* 
My best friend's little sister is in her last semester of RN schooling to be a labor and delivery nurse, and she actually makes fun and imitates noises mothers make when laboring naturally.


This made me cry. What a cruel thing to do... even if those moms have no idea that they're being made fun of. I'm a very modest person, and I'll admit that, right or wrong, I have fears about what I will sound like and/or look like during labor. Reading this confirmed my worst fears.


----------



## 95191 (Nov 8, 2007)

I had a 100% natural birth in a hops. - my OB was an old MALE (who also still teaches - in his 60's) the intern who observed and my nurse were in SHOCK!!! Both had NEVER seen a natural birth! The DS went right to my boob and the cord was not cut until it was done pulsing and my placenta naturally came out. By the way my Dr. did acupuncture and did it on me during labor and after. At my post-op check up I told him what all the nurses said that made a special point to come talk to us (I didn't have much time, he released me an hour after the birth)-he told me, I would LOVE to do births like this but NO ONE wants them! I didn't scream because I hardly had pain, this was my second and with the AC it was less than 50% of the pain I had with the first, besides using AC my labor was super short. I have yet to meet ANYONE outside of this message board that wants a "NATURAL" birth, I just had a cousin proudly tell me how she didn't scream because she got the ep she wanted, and the pot. drip and all the other drugs- and just because the kid came out of her without a "c", she claims she had a natural birth!


----------



## La Limena (Apr 16, 2008)

Hi doctorjen. Did you do an OB fellowship? Hopefully not.









At my clerkship hospital we had 1 or 2 FPs doing OB fellowships, and the result was that they just got swept up into the surgical realm too, so that any non-surgical perspective they may have originally brought to medicine was soon reduced or erased by the same c section training and highly interventive labor management education that the OB residents experienced.

The interesting thing to me is that IME many of the OB track students and later residents that I knew LOVED the surgical aspect of OB/GYN and would even prefer to have a GYN only surgical practice so as to avoid the lifestyle inconvenience of "boring" "normal" deliveries in the middle of the night. I just don't get it...if these folks don't even like or want to "catch babies" why not support midwives efforts to provide the much needed service to low risk women. (Or if not actively support, then at least not actively resist the efforts.)

I also agree with the example zoebird gives. I am an ophthalmologist and though I am trained to refract and prescribe glasses and fit contacts, and I do provide this service to some patients, I am a surgeon and prefer my more challenging medical cases and surgeries. I am (and most ophthalmologists agree with me) totally okay with optometrists handling the very routine cases because it lets me concentrate on the things I like best. If ophthalmology as a whole can "let go" of routine healthy eye exams to optometrists I just can't see why OB as a whole can't "let go" of the low risk women to midwives instead of actively turning their births into potential surgical births by interfering so much.


----------



## DBZ (Aug 9, 2005)

I think we ought to just start refering to OB/GYNs are obsterical surgeons or gyn surgeons.


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Quote:

i would rather that surgeries be safe as possible with good training, then have an untrained or inexperienced surgeon handling any surgical procedures.
Could it be that OBs have done so many unnecessary surgeries on healthy women, i.e., women who really do not NEED the surgery, that the OBs have plenty of training and experience and are therefore excellent at what they do? Just asking. That is probably how they have the good outcomes that they do get most of the time.

But then most women prefer to think that their surgery was necessary; few women want to think of themselves as teaching/learning material.


----------



## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

She saw one natural delivery in FOUR YEARS????? That's nuts.


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Quote:



Quote:

I guess maybe we should almost cut doctors some slack for being so ignorant, they are only acting as they've been taught.
This is true. They are heavily indoctrinated that their services are going to be necessary for 90% of births
But this indoctrination is done unnecessarily and costs people money and causes unnecessary pain and trauma to people who really do not need it. And doctors act as if the patient has no choice in the matter.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *applejuice* 
Could it be that OBs have done so many unnecessary surgeries on healthy women, i.e., women who really do not NEED the surgery, that the OBs have plenty of training and experience and are therefore excellent at what they do? Just asking. That is probably how they have the good outcomes that they do get most of the time.

Do heart surgeons often have bad outcomes? Brain surgeons? Ophthalmologists (







: La Limena)?
Presumably they don't do a bunch of unnecessary surgeries.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2seven* 
She saw one natural delivery in FOUR YEARS????? That's nuts.

No, according to the OP, she saw one *vaginal* delivery in four years. That was induced with pit.


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
Presumably they don't do a bunch of unnecessary surgeries.

I hope not. That is not a good comparison. Childbirth is a healthy, normal, natural condition of a healthy women. Brain tumors, heart problems, and eye conditions are diseases that can be corrected by surgery. Pregnancy and childbirth are not diseases routinely needed to be corrected by surgery.

Pediatricians used to do a tonsilectomy on every child they could get their hands on. I was the only member of my first grade class that had her own tonsils, in a class of 57. Neither of my parents had their tonsils. Now pediatricians do routine ear tubes and circumcisions. There is plenty of unnecessary surgery happening.

Read Confessions Of A Medical Heretic, by a member of the State Of Illinois Medical Licensing Board and a Professor Of Medical Ethics. Little has changed since that book was written.


----------



## mamaverdi (Apr 5, 2005)

Most surgeons (outside of OB) these days don't have TIME for unnecessary surgeries. At least most GOOD surgeons.


----------



## accountclosed3 (Jun 13, 2006)

_Could it be that OBs have done so many unnecessary surgeries on healthy women, i.e., women who really do not NEED the surgery, that the OBs have plenty of training and experience and are therefore excellent at what they do?_

for the average ob who is out of school at every level (residencies etc), and who continues to do unnecessary surgery? yes.

for the student who is hoping to become a gyn/ob surgeon and work on those special cases--i would say no, simply because they have NO training prior to getting training.

and, they need to train.

what is unforunate is that because of the way the system is currently, the obs who are training the newbies are demonstrating the procedures on women for whom it is unnecessary, which then perpetuates this idea that it is necessary.

if it could go back to it's original process, that is that OBs who train new OBs now would step back and only work on those cases where it is necessary, then the OBs-in-training would get a better education (about when the need applies, as well as how to do the technique) and the needs of women would be met.

but, there are a lot of factors in this--social and political--that need to be worked through. part of it involves doctors stepping up and discussing the ethics of unnecessary procedures and another part of it involves women stepping up and educating themselves about these issues.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *applejuice* 
I hope not. That is not a good comparison. Childbirth is a healthy, normal, natural condition of a healthy women. Brain tumors, heart problems, and eye conditions are diseases that can be corrected by surgery. Pregnancy and childbirth are not diseases routinely needed to be corrected by surgery.

Um, yes, that's my point. The other surgeons only do surgeries when necessary and still have good outcomes. Therefore, OBs should be able to do only the necessary 10 to 50% of c-sections (i.e. 3-15% of all births) and still get in plenty of experience.

They don't have any grounds for arguing "we need to do all these c-sections so we can stay skilled."


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Frankly, again, I do not want to be teaching material for anyone, thank you very much.

In terms of childbirth, the human body recovers remarkably quickly and well, an evolutionary adjustment, perhaps, so that the mother can survive and care for her the life.

OBs use this fact to their advantage to show how well their skills work for mothers and babies.


----------



## LemonPie (Sep 18, 2006)

Quote:

She saw one natural delivery in FOUR YEARS????? That's nuts.
When I had my hospital NCB, the nurses were all _amazed_ and kept going on about how good I'd done. Random nurses would pop in and say "I heard you did it ALL without medication!" My labor nurse, who's been in the field for 25 yrs and is an instructor at the local nursing college, said, "I haven't done a delivery like that in YEARS!" It was like I'd pulled off some amazing medical feat.

Quote:

No, according to the OP, she saw one vaginal delivery in four years. That was induced with pit.
I think the OP meant that she considered it "natural" because the mom had gone without an epidural. I can't hardly believe she'd only have seen one vag. delivery in 4 yrs. That would put the hospital c-section rate at 100% and as far as I know, nobody's earned THAT distinction yet. Correct me if I'm wrong!


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Ah, you're right, sorry about that everyone. She'd attended one delivery without an epidural. Okay, so my point about her having never attended a natural delivery still holds, but it's not as bad as I managed to freak myself out with.







:


----------



## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

*Originally Posted by RoxyJas
My best friend's little sister is in her last semester of RN schooling to be a labor and delivery nurse, and she actually makes fun and imitates noises mothers make when laboring naturally.*

Now hold on just a damn minute here! I worked as a labor delivery RN and I can tell you the vast majority of RNs who have brains DO NOT do this. I am an RN to HELP patients and I actually encourage natural births and I respect decisions made by the mom whether or not to get an epidural, or birth natural or in whatever position she wants. This is WRONG to make fun of birthing moms and I hope to God not everyone thinks we nurses are horrible, evil creatures who are here just to make fun of laboring mothers. I think a LOT of OBs and nurses get painted as bad people and it sad and it makes me mad because they are not all that way. I now work for my OB/GYN who delivered both my babies and saved my life because I had placenta accreta and almost died on the delivery room floor (honestly I almost did, not exaggerating here ladies!) Yes, OBs can be jerks, and so can midwives too. I guess my point is I am sorry there are awful medical personnel out there and so many have had terrible experiences. I just wanted to defend myself and my profession as an RN and I have dedicated my life to help bringing little miracles into the world AND helping families make that moment the best in their life.


----------



## not now (Mar 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
Now hold on just a damn minute here! I worked as a labor delivery RN and I can tell you the vast majority of RNs who have brains DO NOT do this. I am an RN to HELP patients....This is WRONG to make fun of birthing moms and I hope to God not everyone thinks we nurses are horrible, evil creatures who are here just to make fun of laboring mothers. I think a LOT of OBs and nurses get painted as bad people and it sad and it makes me mad because they are not all that way.....Yes, OBs can be jerks, and so can midwives too. I guess my point is I am sorry there are awful medical personnel out there and so many have had terrible experiences. I just wanted to defend myself and my profession as an RN and I have dedicated my life to help bringing little miracles into the world AND helping families make that moment the best in their life.









:

I hate when RN's are lumped together as a big group of insensitive, uncaring meanies with no compassion. There are nurses who are complete a**holes (I've worked with them) and there are those of us who care about our patients, who practice empathy and protect our patients.

I don't deal with laboring women but I do work with plenty of adults with serious problems. When I admit the patient who the ED says is "unkempt, poor hygiene...we found cockroaches in her clothes..." I think about getting them stable, comfortable and clean. I don't make fun of them, how they smelled or their lack of education.

Not all of us lack compassion.


----------



## Belia (Dec 22, 2007)

I would never think that all nurses would be so insensitive as to make fun of a woman in labor.... and I don't think anyone in this thread made that assertion either. But I feel very strongly that THAT NURSE who did/does that just... sucks. And is very... yucky.

And should NOT be a nurse who works with laboring women.


----------



## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

I hope she never becomes a nurse to tell you the truth. Those types of people are in the wrong line of work. They don't realize their actions can make a great impact upon patient care, not to mention it is highly unprofessional!!!! Just makes me so mad when I hear things like that. Sorry, I will get off my soapbox now


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
*Originally Posted by RoxyJas
My best friend's little sister is in her last semester of RN schooling to be a labor and delivery nurse, and she actually makes fun and imitates noises mothers make when laboring naturally.*

Now hold on just a damn minute here! I worked as a labor delivery RN and I can tell you the vast majority of RNs who have brains DO NOT do this.

Wasn't RoxyJas talking about a specific person? Whom she knows personally?

I'd assume, and hope, that the woman in question doesn't do the bad behavior in front of her instructors or other students.

Shouldn't you be more upset at the RN student for being totally unprofessional than at RoxyJas for telling us about her unprofessional behavior?


----------



## Couz (Dec 28, 2006)

Oh for the love of all things holy.









I have to chime in with the RN's that just posted above me. I am a doctor. I am not for the medicalization of childbirth. I don't think that unmedicated birth is barbaric. I've seen far, far more vaginal births than c-sections, and probably half of those requested epidurals. I've been the primary attendant at about 80 births. My training is not in obstetrics, but in family medicine and emergency medicine.

Far be it from me to interfere with the rampant doctor-bashing that seems to be an Olympic sport around here, but really... painting all doctors with the same brush just makes the poster look ignorant.


----------



## turtlewomyn (Jun 5, 2005)

To the OP, you might want to share this article with your cousin:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
By choosing an elective surgery prior to term she would be significantly increasing her child's chances of respiratory problems.

One of the things that I really like about my FP (who is also and OB/GYN and is one of the VBAC friendly doctors in town) is that he keeps up to date on the most recent research so he can provide evidence based care to his patients.


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Couz* 
Far be it from me to interfere with the rampant doctor-bashing that seems to be an Olympic sport around here, but really... painting all doctors with the same brush just makes the poster look ignorant.

Brushing all natural birthers here at MDCers with the same brush makes a doctor look ignorant also.

In my life, 55 years, four children, one husband, it has been my distinct experience to be cowed into a corner and treated as ignorant when I simply question the rationale for any drug or procedure, and then sent a bill for the indignity.

As the daughter of a hcp, why don't doctors provide patients with what they want, as homebirths in addition to c-secs that they claim patients want?


----------



## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

_*sapphire_chan*"Shouldn't you be more upset at the RN student for being totally unprofessional than at RoxyJas for telling us about her unprofessional behavior?"_

I never said I was mad at her. That would not make sense. I am upset at the fact that an RN would do something like that. Please read my post again to clarify.

_*Couz* "Far be it from me to interfere with the rampant doctor-bashing that seems to be an Olympic sport around here, but really... painting all doctors with the same brush just makes the poster look ignorant."
_
You rock! Thank you for having the guts to say that! That is exactly what I was going to say next! You hit the nail on the head. I am in the process of applying to medical school in hopes of one day becoming an OB/GYN and I can honestly say they are not all demons in disguise.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
I never said I was mad at her. That would not make sense. I am upset at the fact that an RN would do something like that. Please read my post again to clarify.

I'm sorry, you're right, you did say that you didn't like that there are medical people who are horrible.

It must be especially hard for you as an RN who, like the majority of RNs, aren't horrible.

(Incidentally, the little button at the bottom of posts with a "+ on it lets you quote multiple posts. Just click on it in each post you want to address and hit post reply at the bottom or top of the thread. What you did was fine, the "+ button just might be a bit faster the next time if you felt like using it.)


----------



## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

DH's cousin is on her way to becoming OB too. She's actually fairly crunchy though.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *doctorjen* 
In fact, I came home after my first shift and cried and cried because I went to med school because I was interested in women's health/maternity care and by the end of that first shift I knew I could never do THAT. I didn't realize before I went to medical school what it meant that OB/Gyne was a surgical speciality.

I suspect if you asked a bunch of people at random, most of them wouldn't identify OG/Gyn as a surgical specialty at all. I didn't realize that it was considered one until a few years ago. I had always heard them talked about as specialists in "women's reproductive health" - nothing about surgery. (I still didn't see one in my first pregnancy, as I saw no reason to see a specialist to have a baby. I only started getting referred to the specialists _after_ the first one hacked up my uterus.) I really don't think there's much awareness in the general public that OB/Gyn _is_ a surgical specialty.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
I am in the process of applying to medical school in hopes of one day becoming an OB/GYN and I can honestly say they are not all demons in disguise.

I don't think they're all demons in disguise. I do think they work in an industry that's extremely unfriendly to pregnant and labouring women, and most of them are steeped in those attitudes. I hope that dd, when and if she ever becomes pregnant, avoids this industry like the plague that it is...because there's really no way of knowing what kind of provider you've got until you're in labour and they're either honouring your wishes or cutting an episiotomy after you've refused consent. I can honestly say that, if it weren't for my much-scarred uterus and dead baby, there's nothing on this earth that could get me back into "care" with an OB. I've been operated on by three of them, and the last two both seemed to be caring people - but the level of arrogance was astounding, and I wouldn't trust either one of them as far as I could throw them.


----------



## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Couz* 
Far be it from me to interfere with the rampant doctor-bashing that seems to be an Olympic sport around here, but really... painting all doctors with the same brush just makes the poster look ignorant.

I can understand why a lot of the statements in this thread would put you and other HCPs on the defensive. On the other hand, if you're truly a physician that honors patient self-determination (e.g. non-circ, natural childbirth, refusing Hep B vax) and the salience of evidence-based care, what do you have to defend? HCPs like you (and PPs) are rare gems. Believe me, I'd clone you if I could! (That or I'll just pray that a tornado sucks you up and transports you to my town!







)

Nobody here has stated "all doctors this, all doctors that." The women posting here are presenting genuine and valid concerns. (The siggy expresses my own frustration with ACOG's anti-home birth stance) Before dismissing these women as doctor-bashers, why not take a moment to _listen_ to their voices, to hear out their experiences? Why not replace the defensiveness with empathy?

I'll be fair here. The empathy is a two-way street. It must feel frustrating and demoralizing to hear only the negatives without any pausing to recognize the exceptional and gifted HCPs.

Yet in the obstetrics realm, especially, the medical profession is in a crisis. Care that should be based on evidence and patient welfare is all too often governed by physician and institutional self-interest.

The power to change this status quo will come largely from within the medical profession. As consumers, we rely on ethically minded HCPs like you to make this happen.


----------



## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 
I don't think they're all demons in disguise. I do think they work in an industry that's extremely unfriendly to pregnant and labouring women, and most of them are steeped in those attitudes. I hope that dd, when and if she ever becomes pregnant, avoids this industry like the plague that it is...because there's really no way of knowing what kind of provider you've got until you're in labour and they're either honouring your wishes or cutting an episiotomy after you've refused consent. I can honestly say that, if it weren't for my much-scarred uterus and dead baby, there's nothing on this earth that could get me back into "care" with an OB. I've been operated on by three of them, and the last two both seemed to be caring people - but the level of arrogance was astounding, and I wouldn't trust either one of them as far as I could throw them.


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

ITA, Strom Bride.







s to you and your DD.


----------



## smeisnotapirate (Aug 24, 2007)

Very eloquent, Turquesa. Thank you.


----------



## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the tip sapphire_chan!







And I am very very sorry you had to endure such a horrible time Storm Bride, how sad and downright nasty. It just feels like the majority of women here feel labor/delivery RNs are there to make the laboring mom's job more difficult or they are not intelligent enough to know what is going on and what the best interest of the mother and child are. I am here to say we DO know that and yeah, sometimes a birth just doesn't happen the way you want them to (ie c-section, tearing, assisted vaginal delivery or worse) and I can understand frustration but _sometimes_ it is not the nurse's or doctor's fault. Now I say SOMETIMES! (Obviously there are other times when it is most certainly not) I am fortunate enough to know several OB/Gyns who are fab! The one I work for is a gem and I would never, ever go to a midwife as long as I had him on my team. It is too bad you mamas didn't have someone like him or his wife.


----------



## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Couz* 

Far be it from me to interfere with the rampant doctor-bashing that seems to be an Olympic sport around here, but really... painting all doctors with the same brush just makes the poster look ignorant.

It's hard to imagine that they are all not demons when you have had to sue an entire OB dept of a hospital (as well as the CNMs and NICU depts.) to get justice for a birthrape and infant kidnapping. All because, not one of them would offer so much as an apology for their awful treatment.

Do I have a chip on my shoulder? You bet!! Do I now distrust the entire medical profession based on my 2 horrible experiences with them? You bet!! Can you blame me? That is up to you!

oh and BTW...I won the lawsuits...I got several people fired and a license taken from another...yet, I'm still waiting for that apology. If they were all so wonderful, you'd think at least one of them could come up with an "I'm sorry"


----------



## Couz (Dec 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
It's hard to imagine that they are all not demons when you have had to sue an entire OB dept of a hospital (as well as the CNMs and NICU depts.) to get justice for a birthrape and infant kidnapping. All because, not one of them would offer so much as an apology for their awful treatment.

Do I have a chip on my shoulder? You bet!! Do I now distrust the entire medical profession based on my 2 horrible experiences with them? You bet!! Can you blame me? That is up to you!

oh and BTW...I won the lawsuits...I got several people fired and a license taken from another...yet, I'm still waiting for that apology. If they were all so wonderful, you'd think at least one of them could come up with an "I'm sorry"

I'm not touching your birth story, Fyrestorm. We've all heard it. I'm just saying that if you replace the word 'physician' with, say, the word 'Italian' or the word 'Jewish', no one would simply accept generalizations that paint an entire group with one brush based simply on the fact that some people have had bad experiences with some members of that group.

There are quite a few physicians, nurses and other health professionals that post here. Do you really think we'd be wasting our time on MDC if we didn't share common beliefs with the people here?


----------



## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Couz* 

There are quite a few physicians, nurses and other health professionals that post here. Do you really think we'd be wasting our time on MDC if we didn't share common beliefs with the people here?

and in my experience..they would be the exception to the rule.


----------



## Couz (Dec 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
and in my experience..they would be the exception to the rule.

That's my point-- why does there have to be a 'rule'? Why is it okay to make negative generalizations at all?


----------



## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Couz* 
That's my point-- why does there have to be a 'rule'? Why is it okay to make negative generalizations at all?


Because it's human nature.


----------



## Couz (Dec 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fyrestorm* 
Because it's human nature.











And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a cop-out.


----------



## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Couz* 









And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a cop-out.


Nope...just the truth. People make judgments on their experience all the time. If we didn't, nobody would ever get out of bed in the morning.

Done arguing with you Couz...you continue believing what you need to believe to get you through the day and so will I.


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Couz* 
I'm just saying that if you replace the word 'physician' with, say, the word 'Italian' or the word 'Jewish', no one would simply accept generalizations that paint an entire group with one brush based simply on the fact that some people have had bad experiences with some members of that group.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Couz* 
That's my point-- why does there have to be a 'rule'? Why is it okay to make negative generalizations at all?

IMO, there's a big difference between a group of people such as Italians or Jews, and a group such as physicians. Physicians _choose_ to work in the medical model (I'm not slamming that, in and of itself, as I realize there are many, many reasons for that choice). Physicians receive training in their field, and many of our objections to the industry are, to at least some extent, directly related to that training. We're talking about representatives of a specific industry, who choose to work in that industry - not about people who happen to have been born Italian, or Jewish, or Chinese, or Russian, or...whatever.

Are there still exceptions - OBs who really do have respect for a woman's personal autonomy, and some grasp of the potential repercussions to that woman and her family from the decisions _they_ make about us? Of course there are. The problem is that we have no way of knowing what we're dealing with until it's too late...and the deck is stacked against us.


----------



## BugMacGee (Aug 18, 2006)

This is reminding me of a thread long ago....


----------



## doctorjen (May 29, 2003)

The generalizations don't bug me so much because I feel that they don't apply to me. I am a practicing allopathic physician, and I attend hospital births, some of them quite medicalized, but that's not my whole story, or my whole identity and I know it. Occasionally I get sensitive and I like to see those disclaimers ("we know there are some good physicians out there" type of thing) but I also know that many people's entire lifetime experience with my profession is not too encouraging. My self esteem and my sense of self worth is not that tied up in what other people think of my profession or other people in my profession they've met. I hope that anyone who knows me personally will give me the benefit of the doubt before making a judgement about me, but I also know that people use their past experiences to help them judge new situations, so that means I sometimes have to work hard to overcome the negative things other folks in my profession have done. That's okay, that's life, no biggie.

I think allopathic medicine long ago made the choice to try to set our practioners apart from our clients. Instead of being the community midwife, or medicine man, or whatever, we wanted to be seen as a class apart, by the very nature of our training different and above our clients. My training re-inforced that in me, and it has taken me some effort to move away from that type of hierarchal practice. Doctors prescribe and patients comply (or are non-compliant!) and doctors dispense scientific knowledge that is above what patients know about their own bodies. I have worked in my own life to move away from that kind of thinking to be a community provider, someone who builds relationships and seeks to help my clients maximize their own health. I tell my clients how I reach my conclusions, what factors I'm using in decision making, and encourage them to take responsibility for their own decisions.

I also think, surprisingly maybe, that I worry far less about malpractice than many docs. My clients are all people I know - from my community where I live, where my kids go to school, where I work and shop and go to church - and I have real relationships with the majority of them. They make their own decisions, using my input as a factor hopefully, but ultimately, their own. I think shifting that responsibility means that my clients know what I know - I'm not trying to pull off some kind of atmosphere of infallibilty, or hide any uncertainty from them. If I don't know (and believe me, it happens a lot that I don't know for sure whats going on) I tell my clients so. I really think a lot of the malpractice fear in the US especially has to do with the fact that allopathic medicine is an instution where physicians what to remain powerful - we want to be authority figures. I think if we were all willing to admit that we don't know everything, that sometimes there is a lot of uncertainty in our practice, that decisions need to be made by the people they affect taking into account the factors that are most important to THEM, not us, there would be a lot less reason for people to sue.

Not sure how I got off on my malpractice diatribe. Anyway, I'm not personally bothered by the generalizations, but it is nice to see an acknowledgement now and then that people are individuals, and what one doctor does (or even a whole bunch of doctors) doesn't mean that's how every single doctor acts.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BugMacGee* 
This is reminding me of a thread long ago....

Only one?

Seriously though, near as I can tell the doctors and nurses who practice evidence-based medicine do so *despite* what you were taught not because of what you were taught. You're the ones to put forth the (apparently*) extra effort to treat patients as individuals, to research the findings in you fields, to basically not just blindly follow the standard protocols.

As I was explaining to my husband tonight, I trust all doctors and nurses to practice perfectly well to the extent of their training--I don't trust that training to be in the best interests of physiologically normal birth. I believe there are plenty of doctors and nurses who are capable of acting in the best interests of physiologically normal birth, but I believe that you are rare enough that I have to assume otherwise until pleasantly surprised.

*"apparently extra effort" because if it's not extra effort, why aren't all doctors and nurses doing it?


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *doctorjen* 
I also think, surprisingly maybe, that I worry far less about malpractice than many docs. My clients are all people I know - from my community where I live, where my kids go to school, where I work and shop and go to church - and I have real relationships with the majority of them. They make their own decisions, using my input as a factor hopefully, but ultimately, their own. I think shifting that responsibility means that my clients know what I know - I'm not trying to pull off some kind of atmosphere of infallibilty, or hide any uncertainty from them. If I don't know (and believe me, it happens a lot that I don't know for sure whats going on) I tell my clients so. I really think a lot of the malpractice fear in the US especially has to do with the fact that allopathic medicine is an instution where physicians what to remain powerful - we want to be authority figures. I think if we were all willing to admit that we don't know everything, that sometimes there is a lot of uncertainty in our practice, that decisions need to be made by the people they affect taking into account the factors that are most important to THEM, not us, there would be a lot less reason for people to sue.

I think this is _very_ true. If something had gone wrong with my second or third baby, I'd have been tempted to sue (probably wouldn't have done it, for a variety of reasons - but I'd have been tempted), because of the OB's attitude towards me throughout at the end of the second pregnancy, and all through the third one. I don't like being treated as if I have no brain, and as if my own opinions about my own body and mind are invalid, because they don't agree with the "expert". (After being told for NINE MONTHS that I would be depressed if I had a c-section, both my family doctor and the OB expressed tremendous surprise when I was depressed after ds2 arrived. Yeah - nice to know you were listening and gave a crap.)

OTOH, I had a heartbreakingly bad outcome with Aaron and I have no desire whatsoever to sue anyone. My care provider never tried to promise me a healthy baby. She never tried to pretend that she had the power to make things come out right. I don't blame her for not being able to do something that _she never claimed she could do in the first place_. Most doctors I've dealt with do imply a promise that if I just sit down, shut up and do as I'm told, then everything will be just fine. They can't deliver, but that doesn't change anything.


----------



## tireesix (Apr 27, 2006)

I have recently been referred to an Ob (I grudgingly requested it), the MW knows my fears and concerns and we looked at which Obs were available and she told me 'this one is quite woman centred'. WTF? Being an Ob, I would expect them ALL to be woman centred.

I haven't had good experiences with Obs, I don't diss them all because I don't know them all, but the ones I have so far come across, have been less than respectful (understatement). I know there are good Obs out there, but from my experieence, they are very hard to come by.

As it goes, I am not too trusting of anyone in the medical profession, I haven't had good experiences and would in fact, rather be treated by the local vet.


----------



## Incubator (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tireesix* 
WTF? Being an Ob, I would expect them ALL to be woman centred.

No crap!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tireesix* 
in fact, rather be treated by the local vet.

Me too, at least I've never heard a vet blame the dog for what ever is happening to it.


----------



## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

*Fyrestorm:* Wow, that is all I have to say about your experience. It must have been far beyond horrific. I wish I could apologize for them, but I can't. I too do not believe what makes me function is how "good" or "bad" patients think I am. I am what I am and I think I am a great RN who cares deeply for my patients and works hard. I DO NOT generalize my patients and group them together like some patients do to me. "Oh great, here comes the dumb RN who doesn't know sh*t from a hole in the wall" I get that look a lot...haha. I am not here to argue with you. I just want you to know THERE ARE nurses and OBs (*gasp* I said the "O" word!) who care. I wish you could meet my OBs, I think you would like him and his wife. I hope one day to become and OB myself and maybe, just maybe, I will have patients who look to me as a positive person and not a bad woman. I wish your experiences could have been better and hope you find peace within yourself. I am done posting in this thread, it is not being productive for me personally....wish you all the best.


----------



## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Couz* 
I'm not touching your birth story, Fyrestorm. We've all heard it. I'm just saying that if you replace the word 'physician' with, say, the word 'Italian' or the word 'Jewish', no one would simply accept generalizations that paint an entire group with one brush based simply on the fact that some people have had bad experiences with some members of that group.

There are quite a few physicians, nurses and other health professionals that post here. Do you really think we'd be wasting our time on MDC if we didn't share common beliefs with the people here?

Last I checked, profession was not a protected class.









Out of every person I know who has had a baby, I have not heard of *one* who had an evidence-based and caring birth experience with an OB. Not one. Every single one was lied to in the most egregious ways - your baby is too big to deliver vaginally, it is not safe to be "late," etc. I think this is the same experience as most of us on MDC - every woman is lied to and manipulated and deprived of the most basic considerations, and the doctors act as though they are doing them a favor. I've had an OB directly admit that the only reason he is still in practice is because he figured out to schedule elective sections and inductions and now works banker's hours and earns twice as much. uke Sadly enough, it seems that most people actually enjoy and are comforted by this sort of "care" from their doctors, so if that is what you need to hear, march on over to BabyCenter.


----------



## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Galatea* 
Out of every person I know who has had a baby, I have not heard of *one* who had an evidence-based and caring birth experience with an OB. Not one.

I know I said I was not going post here anymore, but I just HAVE to say I DID have an awesome birth experience with my babies by a truthful, honest caring OB. He was great!!!!!! (Oh but you said people you knew, and you don't really know me so I don't know if that counts.) Marching to Baby Center...nah, those people aren't much fun.


----------



## alllyssa (Sep 1, 2004)

This weeks "green" issue of TIME magazine has a short and VERY biased article about elective c-sections. Not once did they mention the increased risk of hemmorage, infection, or death with these surgeries. It is a terrible, one sided article - I just might write a letter to the editor . . .


----------



## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

Another L&D RN here. I tend to agree with those that say there are very, very few OB's (and RN's) who know HOW to practice evidence based care. It's a big problem. As one of the nurse educators said to me when we were discussing the Cochrane database (which publishes standards of evidence based care based on studies), "yeah, well the OB's don't like them much. They have this hang up with that 'wooden spoon award' that Cochrane keeps giving them for the specialty with the least amount of evidence based practice..."


----------



## La Limena (Apr 16, 2008)

I don't get on the defensive when I read or hear medical industry and doctor bashing because I know I strive to approach my patients as humanistically as possible and have had to sort of swim against the tide myself. I am an osteopathic physician and chose this side of medicine because of the philosophical ideals for patient care and interaction that are promoted during training. I felt that rather than be an outlier in my approach to patients in the usual allopathic model of training, I would find more support in the osteopathic model. Though I ultimately ended up subspecializing, all my training, (med school, internship, and residency) was done through osteopathic institutions which continued to promote and support my principles. The end result is that I practice ophthalmology with an osteopathic philosophy.

The tenets of osteopathic medicine that really spoke to me were (from AOA web):
_First, do no harm. A thoughtful diagnosis should be made before exposing the patient to any potentially harmful procedure.

Look beyond the disease for the cause. Treatment should center on the cause, with effect addressed only when it benefits the patient in some tangible way.

The practice of medicine should be based on sound medical principles. Only therapies proven clinically beneficial in improving patient outcome should be recommended.

The body has the potential to make all substances necessary to insure its health. No medical approach can exceed the efficacy of the body's natural defense systems if those defenses are functioning properly. Therefore, teaching the patient to care for his own health and to prevent disease is part of a physician's responsibility.

Osteopathy embraces all known areas of practice._

I was able to experience excellent and thoughtful care from my osteopathic OB/GYNs in my prior place of residence because they shared this approach to patient care. It is hard to stomp on patients' rights, allow them to be uneducated about their condition, and perform unnecessary procedures on them if the practioner truly believes in these tenets of care.

Sure there are some D.O.s who probably just pay lip service to this philosophy, but I would like to think they are the minority. If you have been dissatisfied with your more traditional healthcare experiences you might look into care from an osteopathic physician as an option.


----------



## thefragile7393 (Jun 21, 2005)

Thank you DoctorJen for your post. You are truely one who is trying to be the change that is needed. And I especially appreciate you for taking yourself out of the equation and looking at the big picture.

Every single person, whether they wish to admit it or not, knows that somehow, somewhere there are doctors and med. professionals. It's impossible that every single one be "evil."

That being said, many mamas here have YET to meet one of the docs who are wonderful. Some have NEVER met one. SO yes, their experiences are going to be jaded. Those who have will post about it. Some women have truely found wonderful OBs. They post here. Plenty of women on here have mentioned that there ARE wonderful professionals out there.

The ones who have never met one, a ped, an OB, whatever, can only base their views on what they've experienced. It's a little hard to throw in a disclaimer if you've honestly never experienced anything else. These women need to be listened to and learned from, especially if you feel that you are trying to be the change that is DESPARATELY needed. It's not about YOU, it's about the profession as a whole. The profession as a whole, and it's treatment of patients, especially in OB and Peds, needs major overhaul.


----------

