# Partying with the kids in the house?



## OhDang (Jan 30, 2008)

Among other things..
Okay, so my older sister is a single mom, with two girls, (lets call them) Anna is 7 and Natalie is 6. My sister is only 22 so she had her kids very young. She acts like she is a teenager though.

The girls have grown up very fast because of the way their mom has raised them. They watch The girls next door with their mom all the time, and the simple life. (she has both seasons on DVD and thats the girls favorite thing to watch). She doesn't allow them to ever watch cartoons or little kid shows or listen to kid music because she hates it.

That isn't too horrible i guess but the things that make me ill is the way she talks to them. She talks to them like they are her 18 year old friends. She will come into a room they are in and say "Hey bitches!" She is saying this in a 'loving' way but i think it's so weird still. One of their biggest games is she will go up to them and say, "Natalie you aint shit." And laugh. Then natalie will say, "mommy i am the shit." My sister thinks this is HILARIOUS.









And since she doesn't have a lot of babysitters, she will just have a ton of people over with the girls there. Which is fine, but sometimes people get really drunk and i don't know if thats okay to see a bunch of people doing keg stands at such a young age. I have babysat them before so she could do her thing, but I can't do it everyday since i already have kids to watch.

I guess this is a rant but it's really the wierdest thing i have ever seen.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

I don't know the specifics but I think what your sister is doing is borderline abusive. I had a friend in school whose mother did this kind of stuff and she was embarrassed and ashamed of it. I stayed the night at her house a few times and one time her mom came home from work with some friends and they got totally stupid drunk. The next morning we found her mom passed out on the couch with vomit on her face. No child should have to be subjected to that kind of stuff.


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## fresh_water (Feb 29, 2008)

I have a hard time with parents including their children in their adult lives, as well as partying (like you described) while the children are at home and the parents are responsible. Huge problem. It seems very irresponsible to me, at the very least. I have family that does this and it bugs the hell out of me each and every time.


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

i think that what she is saying to them is irresponsible, what they are watching is inappropriate. I think the frequency of the partying & the lack of good judgment in other areas sends up flags that these girls are being exposed to too much.

but that said, i am not opposed to have bbqs/parties that are an adult/child mix.

I remember my parents having beautiful fancy all night parties when i was young... i used to have so much fun. People were drunk, but there was always a sober person in charge of the children.

my dh doesnt drink, so if i have drinks he is in charge.

but keg stands? not so cool.

nak


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## OhDang (Jan 30, 2008)

yeah i dont mind if people have a drink in front of kids but everyone getting wasted and doing kegstands while the kids are awake running around is NOT Okay.

Oh and i forgot, on school nights she lets them stay up as late as they want. I stayed with her for a bit, and the girls would always be soo so tired when they woke up for school that they would hardly be able to open their eyes. But she would say, if you stay up late youre gunna be tired so it's your own problem now go to school.

She is a loving mother, but she just loves them like they are 18 year olds not 6 & 7 year olds.


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## Ziggysmama (Dec 26, 2007)

I don't see the big deal. Are they being harmed at these parties? Do the girls not like it? Really how often do these keg stands occur?
Its hard with sisters though, I totally understand.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

The only thing that would worry me would be if your sister was getting drunk while in charge of her kids. However, that's not what you described.

The TV shows, having silly little sayings that they do back and forth with one another . . . meh, she's not hurting them with any of that. Seeing adults partying also doesn't strike me as a huge thing.

I like that my children are exposed to all kinds of things, either through movies, tv, music, or just our daily lives. It gives me great opportunities to talk to them about different issues. I'm not interested in sheltering them at all.


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## OhDang (Jan 30, 2008)

i guess i just think it's a little sad that they aren't really getting a childhood. they have never 'acted' like little girls, always much much more mature and knowing much much more than the average 6 or 7 year olds. If you heard them talk you would think they were 16 or 17 lol.
I don't know if i think it's _bad_ or not, thats why i posted it because i wanted to see other people's opinions and views.

i know my sister never gets "wasted" in front of them but she will drink till she gets buzzed. if she wants to get pass out drunk she makes them go to their friends.

I will never say anything to her about her parenting, because it's not my place unless they are in danger. I just have never met another person who can't wait till she can get drunk with her daughters or can't wait till they start asking for peircings.

I guess the thing that bothers me most is it seems like she is trying to live through her daughters. growing up she was never the pretty one until she was much older, she was always shy and reserved. She wants her daughters to "be the hott ones in school" (her words) who get all the attention from everyone and be the most popular girls in school. She takes them to get their hair highlighted and takes them tanning (not in tanning booths just in the sun). If they feel pale they will say, ew i need to tan. and they are still so young! They get fake nails on allll the time too. idk..i guess my sister and i are just very different.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I don't think that drinking parties are a place for young children. I also agree that using expletives with children are not showing them any respect. They are not female dogs, therefore, the term "bitch: is not endearing. It's immature to treat and talk to your kids like they are your party friends. She needs to grow up and be a parent, not a teenager. When you have kids, you are responsible to your family first... not having drunken fun.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

My parents had huge keg parties when we were little, and at one of them my sister was sexually abused by one of the drunk men. Your sister can't adequately supervise her children during a party like that, especially when drunk, and I wouldn't be comfortable trusting a bunch of drunk party goers around my kids.


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## OakBerry (May 24, 2005)

I don't think having drunken parties late at night every weekend is appropriate. I think a child's home should be their safe place, yk?

I remember being a wild teen and going to a party one night. The people had a 3 year old dd and she got up in the middle of the party and wouldn't go back to sleep. The mother was swearing and yelling at her to go back to bed.
People were doing lines and smoking joints around her.
It was about 1am and I spent two hours reading and hanging out with the little girl until she fell back asleep in her room. The thought of such a young child seeing and experiencing that made me feel sad and a little ill. I will never forget that!

Now, growing up, I went to many family parties with my parents where sometimes relatives got tipsy, but it wasn't out of control, and nobody was swearing, making out, doing lines or toking a fatty in front of us.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

I think your sister is incredibly immature. Unfortunately i see the title "Grandma" in her future in less than ten years.

Quote:

having silly little sayings that they do back and forth with one another
calling your very young daughters "bitches" in "fun" and teaching them to say "I am the shit!" IMO doesnt really qualify as "silly little sayings". The sister needs to grow up.

Allowing kids to freely choose what to watch on tv is different than not allowing them "to ever watch cartoons or little kid shows or listen to kid music because she hates it". Allowing a child to choose their own bedtime is different than a parent letting them stay up because she is too lazy to parent them to sleep.

Getting "wasted" with kids in the house is NOT ok. If she is this immature/irresponsible while unwasted, i can only imagine how her judgment deteriorates while drunk (or high or whatever else she does.)

I dont even KNOW what a "kegstand" is....









Katherine


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## CheapPearls (Aug 7, 2007)

Wow. That is so not cool on many levels. I am 22 myself so I understand being young with kids but this whole posts makes me very uncomfortable.

She needs to grow up. Can you talk to her about her behavior, especially about the partying around the kids? Someone else already pointed out that there's no way she can 100% protect her children with drunk people around. She really needs to open her eyes to the dangers she's exposing her girls to.


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## OhDang (Jan 30, 2008)

i am going to visit them today, and if they say anything about any parties i will talk to her. i hope she doesnt get all defensive on me, but i love these kids and want them to have a great childhood.


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## AngieB (Oct 25, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
My parents had huge keg parties when we were little, and at one of them my sister was sexually abused by one of the drunk men. Your sister can't adequately supervise her children during a party like that, especially when drunk, and I wouldn't be comfortable trusting a bunch of drunk party goers around my kids.

This is what worries me!

The rest is just sad for the girls that they are missing out on a childhood.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
I dont even KNOW what a "kegstand" is....









Katherine

I didn't either.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

in my state you can get your kids taken away by CPS for any of that stuff she is doing.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Yes, this is definitely concerning. As a foster parent I have been involved in helping kids reunite with parents who loved their children but were lousy parents. _*I have learned to accept that many parents are lousy parents, and we can't change that or rescue children without harming both parents and children in many cases*_. But your post brings up a very big concern that goes beyond lousy parenting. I will second this:

Quote:

My parents had huge keg parties when we were little, and at one of them my sister was sexually abused by one of the drunk men. Your sister can't adequately supervise her children during a party like that, especially when drunk, and I wouldn't be comfortable trusting a bunch of drunk party goers around my kids.
Even though you have clarified and said that your sister gets buzzed at this parties but sends them elsewhere if she is going to get passed-out drunk, her ability to supervise, assess risk, manage, and support her children is going to be impaired even with just a buzz.

A lot of people don't realize how judgement can be impaired without being full-on drunk, but research (for example, on how much people have to drink before their reaction time slows while driving) has consistently showed that even a buzz generally impairs judgement.

Is the rest of your family aware of what is happening? If you are not the only one concerned (and hopefully you are not), I think the best first step after you speak directly with your sister and see where that goes, may be to make a unified extended-family plan about how to respond to your sister and support her in learning some of the parenting skills she seems to lack. This actually may involve your family members (parents and/or grandparents, other siblings, cousins or anyone else who has a relationship with her, etc.) doing some honest self-evaluation. Who is enabling her in what ways? Are there any scapegoats, etc.?

Even though you don't describe your sister as an alcoholic, organizations such as al-anon might be able to help your family devise a plan because even if alcohol ABUSE isn't involved, it does sound like alcohol USE plays a big part in the most dangerous scenario you described and generally when family members are falling apart at their responsibilites, etc....there are similar patterns in terms of family roles (such as the "enabler" role I mentioned above).

I bet if you speak with her directly, you'll get a better feel for the best plan. Does it seem like, for example, asking her if she wants to take a parenting class with you would totally put her on the defensive, or do you think she would be open to doing it as something nice for the two of you to do together? I wouldn't be afraid to mention fears that her children might be abused at such a party. See how seriously she takes her actions, and then try to devise what the next steps ought to be.

*If* after you speak with her, and give her a couple weeks to soak it in (give her some time to recover before you give up...especially if she reacts defensively at first, which means she feels hurt), it seems like she is still unable to make changes without a bigger push, I'd say initiate the family plan. *If* family efforts at pushing her don't go anywhere within a couple of months, I would honestly at least consider calling the police late one night when she was hosting a drunken party and was buzzed, and the kids were still awake. I'd tell them my sister was having a party and had already become slightly drunk, and that the party was getting really wild, and that I was really afraid for the children's safety because supervision was inadequate. If you called the police, my best guess is that they'd likely go and check in on the party and ask about the children. This would (a) possibly break up the party, which would force your sister to turn her attention the children, and more importantly (b) become another "wake up call" for your sister. Depending on her reaction to that, you could consider a follow-up call to CPS later in the week (the police might make their own report to CPS, depending on what they encounter at the party).

As a nanny, are you a mandatory reporter in your state (assuming you are in the U.S.)? If you are, be aware of when your sister's situation crosses a line from really, really shitty parenting to abusive. That's when you are required to make a report, and really have no option of waiting.


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## bellymama (Apr 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionessMom* 
in my state you can get your kids taken away by CPS for any of that stuff she is doing.

any of that stuff? really?
you get your kids taken away by CPS for watching the Simple Life?








i need the specifics of the type of parties she is having in order to know whether this is okay or not. we have bbq's and dinners where all the adults are drinking wine and beer...we have a good time, and sometimes some people get more than just a smidge buzzed. nobody drives. everyone at the parties is close friends or family, and their are lots of kids around. so if that's the kind of party it is, you are over reacting.
if it's a party full of strangers or people you hardly know, and the your sisters kids are the only kids there, then i can see it being a bit of an issue.

to the pp who was molested. i am sorry that happened to you. but pedophiles are pedophiles are pedophiles. drunk people does not = pedophiles. someone is not going to molest a child purely because they are drunk, they obviously will already have those tendencies. alcohol does not a pedophile make. that is ridiculous to say.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

to the pp who was molested. i am sorry that happened to you. but pedophiles are pedophiles are pedophiles. drunk people does not = pedophiles. someone is not going to molest a child purely because they are drunk, they obviously will already have those tendencies. alcohol does not a pedophile make. that is ridiculous to say.
I can't speak for her, but I think that poster seemed pretty clear in her point, which the way I read it did NOT at all seem to be that a pedophile will abuse a child because s/he is drunk. *What she actually said was* that if the mom is drunk, she is not able to properly supervise her children and thus less able to protect her children in the event that someone does attempt to abuse her children.

THAT is a valid concern.

And yes, I think that a drunken party is a place where children can be vulnerable to abuse. Whether or not the family or friends are close (statistically, our children are most likely to be abused by close family and friends). Though alcohol does not cause pedophilia, lowered inhibitions and reduced judgement of all adults-- and sometimes a high level of sexual energy depending on the type of party, the personality of the adults, whether any adult is using other type of drugs, and the number of drunk folks-- can certainly place a child in the wrong place at the wrong time. Generally pedophiles are also aware of times when they are least likely to get caught, and will also take advantage of such situations.

Finally, it seems worth noting that the pp's sister's story is not isolated. I grew up at the tail end of an era when it wasn't uncommon for parents to be partying with kids in their care. Countless peers and kids just a bit older than us were prematurely exposed to sexual activity and many were abused. There are some parents who can get a little drunk and maintain proper supervision of their children, but I still think research is very clear that judgement and reaction time is poor even when a person is just buzzed, which doesn't make for the best supervisory environment.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellymama* 

to the pp who was molested. i am sorry that happened to you. but pedophiles are pedophiles are pedophiles. drunk people does not = pedophiles. someone is not going to molest a child purely because they are drunk, they obviously will already have those tendencies. alcohol does not a pedophile make. that is ridiculous to say.

First, it's my sister who was molested, not me. Second, I never said alcohol made him a pedophile. I said my parents were unable to adequately supervise what was happening because there were so many incredibly drunk people and many spent the night because they were so drunk. My parents had the kind of party (and it sounds like the same thing in the OP) where people would pass out drunk or just be so drunk they'd fall asleep on couches or the floor and spend the night. One of these people obviously was a pedophile, and due to my parents having passed out while there were other people in the house, they were not aware when he snuck into my sister's room and molested her.

I'm not anti alcohol. My husband and I hang out with neighbors or go to friends' houses and drink and everyone brings their kids. It's all great fun and there aren't problems. But it's always either in walking distance or we have a designated driver, and when we get home it's just us and our kid. I would never pass out drunk in my house or be so inebriated I was unable to adequately supervise my child when there were a bunch of other people in my house.

Finally, alcohol can't make a person a pedophile, but it can make a pedophile lose his inhibitions and become willing to take a chance with a friend's kid. My parents said they didn't believe my sister and that this friend would never do that, but they never let him come to the house again after that either so I don't know just what they actually believed.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OhDang* 
Which is fine, but sometimes people get really drunk and *i don't know if thats okay to see a bunch of people doing keg stands at such a young age.*

You don't know????? Oh my gosh, I would be calling CPS if I were a neighbor for sure. That just plain bad parenting. Alcohol (ANY alcohol!) and children do not mix. No excuse! I feel very sorry for those girls. She needs some help, fast. Those girls deserve better.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellymama* 
any of that stuff? really?
you get your kids taken away by CPS for watching the Simple Life?









At least for now, I myself am going to give that poster the benefit of the doubt. I feel pretty comfortable assuming that the poster simply improperly worded her post. Until she comes back to clarify, I am going to assume that she didn't mean "any" but instead meant "all" those things in combination.

If we were talking about you, I am guessing _your_ parties might not seem of such great concern...because I am also guessing that you don't show poor judgement with your children almost across the board, and that your parties aren't one example among many of problematic situations in which you have placed your children. I'm also guessing/hoping that you might have a drink around your children but that you don't become drunk at these parties of yours.

Having been involved in the system for a number of years, I also think that even with my assumptions about the pp's intent, probably that is misinformation or an exageration because most likely services would be offered to the parents first, etc. But this stuff DOES vary a lot by state and even county to county, so I suppose it is possible that it is just the way it is where she resides...that all these things in combo would be considered "putting the child in immediate danger," which is essentially the biggest consideration made when removing children from their parents care whether just for a couple days while things get sorted out or for months while the parents are asked to work on the issues.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionessMom* 
in my state you can get your kids taken away by CPS for any of that stuff she is doing.

That is seriously ridiculous -- though entirely unsurprising.

And calling the police/getting CPS involved because mom has a little buzz during a party? OK, but only if you think ruining all their lives and alienating your sister is a phenomenal idea.


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

I just have to say that I grew up watching my mother stumble around in a drunken stupor and it really damaged me...or worked in my favor, depending on how you look at it. I don't drink, at all.ever. But I'll never forgive my mother for scaring the living daylights out of my younger brothers and I when we were kids with her raging drunkenness (is that a word?).


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## OhDang (Jan 30, 2008)

Oh, I do not believe in calling CPS unless there is some real serious danger. I don't agree with the kids being at some of her parties at all, (and no they are not bbq parties) I just want to help her realize the real dangers of what she is doing.

when i saw her today we had a long talk. I was as unoffensive as I could be and there were a lot of tears. It was hard but i actually got her to open up and I think she actually liked having someone to talk about it for once.
She agreed that she had her kiddos way too young and resents them a little bit for taking away from her party days while she still lived at home. (while she was living at home with the girls our parents did not let her go out very often because they said she needed to be with her kids.) so when she moved out a few years later, she tried to make up for missing out on all the highschool parties and never got over the habit of it.
I told her it's not her kids fault that they have a young mom and it's no excuse.

I then slowly brought up, that something could happen to her kids at one of those parties and would it be worth it?
She got pissed when i said that and said she wouldnt let that happen but i said if youre passed out you wouldn't know. I think that was a wake up call.
its like she was living in this fantasy world where she could be a mom and party at the same time.
So..long story short she said that she will still do all the things she is doing (their saying and how she raises them) except she said she knows she needs to cut down on partying.

I made a deal with her, (and we got my mother in on this too) that two fridays out of the month one of us will watch the girls so she can go out and have some fun, or some "her time". But thats it. I told her it might be hard to not party everweekend but she has to stop thinking about herself and think about her kids. I HOPE she sticks with this plan, because if i find out that she is having keggers with her girls again, im gunna have to think of a different approach and i dont want to tear their family apart.


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## Sierra (Nov 19, 2001)

That's wonderful! Not only is it the approach I was advocating (the conversation and a family support plan as the first and perhaps only steps), but it also seems like it is a very good first step in really helping your sister parent her kids safely.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
Alcohol (ANY alcohol!) and children do not mix. No excuse!

That's a bit harsh. IMO. Of course, I say that as I sit on the computer with a glass of wine next to the keyboard and my kids in the next room.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

*kegstand
A common party activity in which two people hold another person's feet while the person's hands hold onto the keg. Another person holds the tap in their mouth until they give the signal to stop, and everyone else counts. The object of this activity is to chug beer from the keg upside down for as long as possible.*

I had to go look it up.








I can't imagine thinking this was a funtime after i became a parent. I cant imagine this behavior occuring while there are young kids around. What is the benefit to the kids to be around such behavior?? It seems the purpose of "kegstanding" is to get really drunk, really fast. Sounds like "frat party" behavior. Yeah, real responsible.







:

Katherine


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
*kegstand
A common party activity in which two people hold another person's feet while the person's hands hold onto the keg. Another person holds the tap in their mouth until they give the signal to stop, and everyone else counts. The object of this activity is to chug beer from the keg upside down for as long as possible.*

I had to go look it up.








I can't imagine thinking this was a funtime after i became a parent. I cant imagine this behavior occuring while there are young kids around. What is the benefit to the kids to be around such behavior?? It seems the purpose of "kegstanding" is to get really drunk, really fast. Sounds like "frat party" behavior. Yeah, real responsible.







:

Katherine

Yep, my thoughts exactly. I think the behavior IS harsh, irresponsible, childish and the mother needs to get her ducks in a row somehow, hopefully it does not involve the children being taken away. And if a mother is "buzzed" during a party? COME ON! How can you parent correctly and be buzzed? What kind of example is that setting? Those children deserve better than a mom who wants to act like a college co-ed at some frat party.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellymama* 
any of that stuff? really?
you get your kids taken away by CPS for watching the Simple Life?









*use some common sense. i meant the partying.*

to the pp who was molested. i am sorry that happened to you. but pedophiles are pedophiles are pedophiles. drunk people does not = pedophiles. someone is not going to molest a child purely because they are drunk, they obviously will already have those tendencies. alcohol does not a pedophile make. that is ridiculous to say.


*being drunk loosens you inhibitions. people do stuff they normally wouldnt let themselves do. they give in to their desires.*

and if the parent is buzzed, will they realize their kid is another room with a pedophile before or after something happens. my friends kid had this happen to them.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jessy1019* 
That is seriously ridiculous -- though entirely unsurprising.

And calling the police/getting CPS involved because mom has a little buzz during a party? OK, but only if you think ruining all their lives and alienating your sister is a phenomenal idea.


yeah it might be a little ridiculous, but i know from personal experience that they will take away kids if the parents are getting drunk every weekend with a lot of people at their house drinking and getting drunk. this is how DSDs got taken wawy from their mom. i also have 2 friends who i tried to warn who kept on going and are now involved with CPS. so yeah, in my state you can get your kids taken away. there is a difference between having a low-key responsible bbq party and having a keg-stand frat party with your young kids there.


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## Jessy1019 (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionessMom* 
yeah it might be a little ridiculous, but i know from personal experience that they will take away kids if the parents are getting drunk every weekend with a lot of people at their house drinking and getting drunk. this is how DSDs got taken wawy from their mom. i also have 2 friends who i tried to warn who kept on going and are now involved with CPS. so yeah, in my state you can get your kids taken away. there is a difference between having a low-key responsible bbq party and having a keg-stand frat party with your young kids there.

Oh, I wasn't doubting you. I know people who have lost their children -- permanently -- and for much, much less.

But I do think it's ridiculous. Unless the parent (or person in charge of the kids during the party) is drunk (not buzzed, but DRUNK), getting the state involved seems like a tragic mistake.


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## mustangtbn (Jun 23, 2007)

I totally agree with the PP that this kind of alcohol consumption and partying around kids is completely inappropriate. Maybe at a wedding reception, which would happen a only few times in a lifetime, where people would (probably) be on slightly better behavior, and probably be devoid of kegs is one thing, but just on random weekends, that's ridiculous.

My ILs did this kind of stuff all the time when their sons were growing up (and still do). They weren't young parents, they're just heavy drinkers who never really grew up themselves. I don't think the foster system would have been better for them, but this kind of environment was far from ideal. DH and his brothers have all kinds of issues due to witnessing this kind of behavior as "normal."


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## bellymama (Apr 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
That's a bit harsh. IMO. Of course, I say that as I sit on the computer with a glass of wine next to the keyboard and my kids in the next room.

right?


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

My aunt acted like this with her kids. I remember spending the night over there a few times as a young teen and watching her get ready to go out. I thought she was so glamorous, until she came home several hours later wasted and messy. It scared me -- my mom *never* acted like that. I can't imagine living with that as your image of "mother."


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## bellymama (Apr 15, 2007)

OP, curious....have you been to one of her parties? or are you speculating? do they really do keg stands? here's why i ask, because the word "partying" means a lot of different things to people.
if your nieces are at a wild, crazy party with tons of people that no one knows well, and everyone is falling down, passing out drunk, then yeah, that is lame, and it sucks and i would be shaking my head to.
but if its a party of close friends that your sister knows really well, and they are just drinking beer and socializing, i don't see the problem.
there is no way i can judge whether these parties are appropriate or not with out knowing how many people are there, how well your sister knows them, if there are other kids there, and if your sister is falling down passing out drunk.

speaking of keg stands, i have a close friend who has a 4 year old and a 6 year old. she has lots of bbq's that carry over into the evening. her group of friends is a tight knit group who has been friends since highschool, some since elementary school. some of them have kids, so there are always tons of kids running around. at a 4th of july party, they had a keg. and for shits and giggles, and old time sake, my friends hubby did a keg stand. it was hilarious.

i think that most of us can reasonably see that there are lots of different ways to "party" some of those are inappropriate for kids. but to say kids should never be around adults drinking is just unrealistic for some of us. i agree that a kid should never be alone in a sea of shitty drunk adults that she hardly knows. but i don't agree that a kid should never be a social function where alcohol is served.

so OP, sincerely asking, can you give us a play by play description of the kind of party your sister has? who is there? how much drinking is happening? where are the kids? that sort of thing.
i apologize if you already mentioned it. this thread is long and i don't have time to read every single post, so if you did already post it, could you direct me to the post # that you did so? thanks!


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

I guess my thinking is "buzzed" means you are not sober, which, in my opinion, you are not fit to properly watch your children. Now, I guess I can understand, a glass of wine with dinner or ONE drink would acceptable but drinking heavily (more than two) around children is not my idea of a great time with children.


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## LionessMom (Mar 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
I guess my thinking is "buzzed" means you are not sober, which, in my opinion, you are not fit to properly watch your children. Now, I guess I can understand, a glass of wine with dinner or ONE drink would acceptable but drinking heavily (more than two) around children is not my idea of a great time with children.

i agree. i also think that being "buzzed" regularly is a problem too. regularly being everyday or close to it.

moderation is a big word and a big idea to people with no self control. like my alcoholic DH, some people cant stop at one and should have none. he is sober now but there was a time that his drinking would have cost us the kids even though I the sober one was watching them. even when he was only drinking 2 or 3 a day, and then cut down to one a day. kids dont need to think that it is normal to have no self control. jmo


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LionessMom* 
i agree. i also think that being "buzzed" regularly is a problem too. regularly being everyday or close to it.

moderation is a big word and a big idea to people with no self control. like my alcoholic DH, some people cant stop at one and should have none. he is sober now but there was a time that his drinking would have cost us the kids even though I the sober one was watching them. even when he was only drinking 2 or 3 a day, and then cut down to one a day. *kids dont need to think that it is normal to have no self control. jmo*

That is my opinion as well.


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## OhDang (Jan 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellymama* 
OP, curious....have you been to one of her parties? or are you speculating? do they really do keg stands? here's why i ask, because the word "partying" means a lot of different things to people.
if your nieces are at a wild, crazy party with tons of people that no one knows well, and everyone is falling down, passing out drunk, then yeah, that is lame, and it sucks and i would be shaking my head to.
but if its a party of close friends that your sister knows really well, and they are just drinking beer and socializing, i don't see the problem.
there is no way i can judge whether these parties are appropriate or not with out knowing how many people are there, how well your sister knows them, if there are other kids there, and if your sister is falling down passing out drunk.

speaking of keg stands, i have a close friend who has a 4 year old and a 6 year old. she has lots of bbq's that carry over into the evening. her group of friends is a tight knit group who has been friends since highschool, some since elementary school. some of them have kids, so there are always tons of kids running around. at a 4th of july party, they had a keg. and for shits and giggles, and old time sake, my friends hubby did a keg stand. it was hilarious.

i think that most of us can reasonably see that there are lots of different ways to "party" some of those are inappropriate for kids. but to say kids should never be around adults drinking is just unrealistic for some of us. i agree that a kid should never be alone in a sea of shitty drunk adults that she hardly knows. but i don't agree that a kid should never be a social function where alcohol is served.

so OP, sincerely asking, can you give us a play by play description of the kind of party your sister has? who is there? how much drinking is happening? where are the kids? that sort of thing.
i apologize if you already mentioned it. this thread is long and i don't have time to read every single post, so if you did already post it, could you direct me to the post # that you did so? thanks!

I have said before, that i do not see anything wrong with aclohol with close friends or family.
She has parties where she invites her friends and people she doesn't know usually come too. I have been to one, but ended up playing with the girls all night instead of drinking.


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## bellymama (Apr 15, 2007)

do you bring your kids to the party?


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## MamaWindmill (Feb 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
I don't know the specifics but I think what your sister is doing is borderline abusive.

You mean like slapping a child in the face?


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellymama* 
do you bring your kids to the party?

the OP is TTC

I think it sounds VERY innapropriate to have her daughters at these parties. I wont even party like that without my kids there...it doesn't sounds like adults responsibly enjoying alcohol. it sounds like the college parties that my roomate and I used to throw (neither of us had kids!!)


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## Polliwog (Oct 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 
*kegstand
A common party activity in which two people hold another person's feet while the person's hands hold onto the keg. Another person holds the tap in their mouth until they give the signal to stop, and everyone else counts. The object of this activity is to chug beer from the keg upside down for as long as possible.*

I had to go look it up.








I can't imagine thinking this was a funtime after i became a parent. I cant imagine this behavior occuring while there are young kids around. What is the benefit to the kids to be around such behavior?? It seems the purpose of "kegstanding" is to get really drunk, really fast. Sounds like "frat party" behavior. Yeah, real responsible.







:

Katherine

I had to look it up, too. Sounds really sad.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaWindmill* 
You mean like slapping a child in the face?

Yes. You might call it a cultural slap in the face in this instance. This mother thinks that getting wasted around her daughters, letting them watch trash television and listen to trash music, calling them "b*tches", all of those things have lowered these girls' standards, and IN MY OPINION that is abusive. Those girls are too young to understand the damage that is being done to them by their mother's actions. It's my sincere hope that the mom gets a clue, or these girls at least have a better influence in their lives that teaches them how decent people are supposed to act.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

this does not sound like a healthy environment.


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## transformed (Jan 26, 2007)

it would be really hard to have the skills to parent those girls at her age. She missed out on alot of developing.

Man, I waited till 21 to have kids and I even have a hard time sometimes!

Its not easy, maybe the girls aren't in an ideal situation, but I just have to give my support to their mom for trying to do the best job she can.

It sounds like they bond together (allbeit kind of disfunctional) but I am glad that the girls know that their mommy loves them.

I dont really have any advice, just support for you and her.

It takes a village to raise a child.


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## bellymama (Apr 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
the OP is TTC

wait, people who are TTC can't go to parties anymore? that sucks.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellymama* 
wait, people who are TTC can't go to parties anymore? that sucks.











You asked if the OP brought her kids to the parties (presumably, to show that if HER kids could be there, then why not the sister's kids...)

The poster was just saying that the OP doesnt have kids yet, she is trying to conceive (as is listed in her sig line).

Katherine


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## SAHDS (Mar 28, 2008)

I haven't read through the entire thread so this is to the OP:

Sounds a lot like my childhood. My mom had my brother and I very young (16/18 respectively) and never really understood what being a mother meant until we were old enough to take care of ourselves. She was constantly having teenagers and young adults at the house (my older cousin's friends) with TONS of drinking. I was only 8,9 but the 18-19 y/o guys would make lewd comments to me (I knew wheat they meant), I couldn't sleep because of the noise, we had no money for food because of the cost of booze and once I even came home (from my dad's) with blood-stained sheets because my mother had let my 15 y/o cousin lose her virginity *in my bed*!

I feel so incredibly sorry for your nieces. They need good guidance and positive examples, especially being a female in today's world. I hope you can play a vital part in their lives.

Oh, and I also don't play the "she's only 22" card. Big effin' deal. When you're a mother, you need to be a mother and not some pathetic imitation. I had my kids at 19 and 21 and you can bet I would never dream of doing the things my mom did. Maybe that's harsh, but it hardens you to grow up that way.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Well, I agree that a mother using language like that, even in fun, with her kids, sticks in my craw. It's not my style, and I don't personally think it's appropriate. But I wouldn't go so far as to call it abusive. Not even close. And I think allowing little ones to watch adult-themed shows is a bad idea, too, but certainly not abusive.

As far as partying goes, well it depends. DH and I have the occasional party with alcohol. Not like every weekened, but once a month or so. I don't think it harms my kids to be around drinking in moderation. I think it shows them what moderation looks like, and that's important. But really out of control partying is definitely not something that children should be around for, and adolescent crap like keg stands is just ridiculous. Me, I put my kids to bed early, and designate one person-- me, DH, maybe my mother or a very good friend, to stay sober and be the responsible party. And we'd definitely stop short of really stinky drunkenness, and expect our guests to do the same. there are a lot of "drinking games" that are harmless fun, too.

But to say kids should never ever be around alcohol? That's going way too far. I drink a glass of red wine with my dinner, in front of my kids, at least four nights a week. And often I have another after they go to bed. Would you call that abusive?


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## Porcelain Interior (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SAHDS* 
I haven't read through the entire thread so this is to the OP:

Sounds a lot like my childhood. My mom had my brother and I very young (16/18 respectively) and never really understood what being a mother meant until we were old enough to take care of ourselves. She was constantly having teenagers and young adults at the house (my older cousin's friends) with TONS of drinking. I was only 8,9 but the 18-19 y/o guys would make lewd comments to me (I knew wheat they meant), I couldn't sleep because of the noise, we had no money for food because of the cost of booze and once I even came home (from my dad's) with blood-stained sheets because my mother had let my 15 y/o cousin lose her virginity *in my bed*!

I feel so incredibly sorry for your nieces. They need good guidance and positive examples, especially being a female in today's world. I hope you can play a vital part in their lives.

Oh, and I also don't play the "she's only 22" card. Big effin' deal. When you're a mother, you need to be a mother and not some pathetic imitation. I had my kids at 19 and 21 and you can bet I would never dream of doing the things my mom did. Maybe that's harsh, but it hardens you to grow up that way.


Me too. My childhood sucked because my parents were busy being selfish.

I got pregnant with my first child at 16. Guess what I've been doing for the past 12 years? Being a mom. Age is no excuse.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Porcelain Interior* 
Me too. My childhood sucked because my parents were busy being selfish.

I got pregnant with my first child at 16. Guess what I've been doing for the past 12 years? Being a mom. Age is no excuse.

Way to go mama!!! Age has nothing to do with being a mother, whether you are 15 or 51, once you bring a child into the world, ACT like a mother, which means growing up and being responsible.


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## soso-lynn (Dec 11, 2007)

My sister was 15 when she gave birth to her daughter. She was all happy to be able to live on her own and was partying all the time, having people over getting drunk, having different guys spend the night. Her friends would drink a lot more than she did, she would usually try to keep it to a 'buzz', whatever that means.

Her daughter was put in foster care at 18 months, after being on her own for less than 6 months. She only got her daughter back a few months ago, when her daughter turned 10 and will have her taken away again at the first sign of neglect or partying.


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## doublyblessed (Jun 4, 2008)

definitely NOT a good atmosphere for those girls...not safe in so many ways...and for them to think of themselves as so old already or in those terms/standards...oh it makes me sad, too...

i know there is only so much you can do...but maybe try and talk w/ your sister...she sounds like she has yet to grow up and is very selfish/self-centered.

yeah, i can also see grandma in her title in the next 10 years as well... very sad...

i don't know why a mom would want to relate to her girls like that...i know even i sometimes need to remind myself that i am the mother, not my dd's buddy and i even will feel a bit envious/jealous when my dd just wants to be w/ her friend. i've slowly (slooooowly) got to let her go her own way...but man...i just don't know what to say about your sis. i'm sure someday CPS will get called by somebody about her ways...

i'm so sorry...

i know what a keg party is but not a keg stand...is that the same as a party?


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

Age isn't an excuse. I gave birth to #3 at age 22 and still knew that behavior was not ok!

I had a friend do similar to what your sister is doing and she lost custody of her kids.


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## bellymama (Apr 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *queenjane* 









You asked if the OP brought her kids to the parties (presumably, to show that if HER kids could be there, then why not the sister's kids...)

The poster was just saying that the OP doesnt have kids yet, she is trying to conceive (as is listed in her sig line).

Katherine

ahhh! i see. that makes sense. i don't really read people's sigs...i usually have the sig's turned off since they tend to bug me.


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## textbookcase (May 31, 2007)

It sounds like a pretty bad environment for kids that are so young and impressionable. I don't see anything wrong with kids being at family BBQs and parties where the adults are drinking (within reason, and not drinking and driving, of course) our family has gatherings like that all the time. The keg stands are too much, and kids being at huge raging parties is just not right. I don't think it's right for her to call her children 'bitches' either. I think you should talk to her about it. It's time for her to grow up.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

Oh, and I also don't play the "she's only 22" card. Big effin' deal. When you're a mother, you need to be a mother and not some pathetic imitation. I had my kids at 19 and 21 and you can bet I would never dream of doing the things my mom did. Maybe that's harsh, but it hardens you to grow up that way.
I'd like to say...







:

(Though I had my kids at 16, 19, 21 and 23)


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

Unfortunately your sister having parties is pretty normal behavior for a *22* year old, she is doing what is typical. The downside is she has children, she should grow up. She acts like a teenager because she barely isn't one. I have seen what happens to kids who grow up in these situations, and the saddest part is many(not all) end up in similar situations when they become teens. I would hope that she would act more appropriately in front of her kids, but she is a fairly young adult who is a mother, she needs to act like one.

It's okay to have a BBQ, have some beers, but I know that when I was 22 most of the parties I was at were not kid appropriate, lots of debauchery going on. Some of my friends had kids, but they were really little and I always felt so weird to be partying in front of a LO.

I'd be really concerned about her childrens well-being, there are so many things that could happen now _and_ in the future. It's okay to get a little crazy, but it sounds like it's happening often. She probably won't like getting talked to about this, but you should make your concerns known.


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## sungodis (Jun 18, 2006)

Plus, to add to Sierra's post, the OP has already stated that the mother wants her girls to "be hott". She gets them highlights, fake nails, and takes them tanning. To me, that seems to put them at greater risk. They look older than they actually are and, according to the OP, talk older than they are. This puts them at even greater risk for being sought out by drunk men at a party. Over sexualizing young girls and then exposing them to drunk men with less than stellar supervision is never a good combo.


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

It is setting up for a huge disaster....so sad to see happen...


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## CtMom (Jan 14, 2003)

If I had children her daughters' ages, I wouldn't want my kids to play with them. I wonder if that is a problem for those girls as well? So sad.


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## mclisa (Jul 26, 2004)

Those girls are going to be easy targets to be molested by a serial boy friend a one of the partiers that happens to be over.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

She sounds very immature, but unless she's getting drunk while the girls are in her care, I don't think there's anything technically abusive about her behavior. It is a little sad that her daughters won't get to have a "normal" childhood, but from what you've said, it sounds like it could be much, much worse.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
I don't know the specifics but I think what your sister is doing is borderline abusive. I had a friend in school whose mother did this kind of stuff and she was embarrassed and ashamed of it. I stayed the night at her house a few times and one time her mom came home from work with some friends and they got totally stupid drunk. The next morning we found her mom passed out on the couch with vomit on her face. No child should have to be subjected to that kind of stuff.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *becoming* 
She sounds very immature, but unless she's getting drunk while the girls are in her care, I don't think there's anything technically abusive about her behavior. It is a little sad that her daughters won't get to have a "normal" childhood, but from what you've said, it sounds like it could be much, much worse.

Full-circle... both these ladies put it best.

Honestly, what does your family think about this? Has anyone stepped in? Any authorities? Does she realize she is at risk for CPS intervention?


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mytwogirls* 
You don't know????? Oh my gosh, I would be calling CPS if I were a neighbor for sure. That just plain bad parenting. Alcohol (ANY alcohol!) and children do not mix. No excuse!

Wow. I guess you should go ahead and call CPS on, um, probably most of the parents in the western world.


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## missbuns (Oct 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rivka5* 
Wow. I guess you should go ahead and call CPS on, um, probably most of the parents in the western world.

yeah, really..

pretty much every family holiday/BBQ/work party/dinner party/restaurant evening/birthday party involves a glass of wine, a couple of beers or 2 for the parents. and kids. no harm done.

don't get that one at all.


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## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellymama* 
to the pp who was molested. i am sorry that happened to you. but pedophiles are pedophiles are pedophiles. drunk people does not = pedophiles. someone is not going to molest a child purely because they are drunk, they obviously will already have those tendencies. alcohol does not a pedophile make. that is ridiculous to say.

My father was a pedophile who only acted on his urges when he was drunk. I was lucky enough to grow up during a period of his life when his drinking was under control (i.e. he did not drink at all). My sister was not so lucky.

In case you missed this in health class, alcohol reduces inhibitions. Pedophiles are human and have inhibitions like the rest of us.

I could continue with more reasons that I disagree very strongly on this, but I have kids to tend...


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