# DD refuses swim lessons - WWYD?



## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

I really want both my kids to take swimming lessons until they can swim, say, the length of a pool. To me, learning to swim is not optional.

But. My 4-year-old refuses to take lessons. This past summer, at my inlaws lake house, she became very comfortable in the water when wearing a life jacket and swim ring.







Now, when I tell her I'd like her to learn to swim, she says, "But I can swim with my life jacket and fishy ring!"

Any attempt to persuade her that it's important to be able to swim without a life jacket and fishy ring is vehemently opposed.

My 2 (almost 3) year old is going to take lessons this winter. I plan to bring the 4 year old so she can watch. But I'm not sure even that will convince her to try it.

To me, learning to swim is so important. But at the same time, I can't stand to think of bringing her to lessons crying and clinging to me and feeling terrified. She refuses to go even if I take a lesson with her, which is an option at the pool near us.

What would you do?


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## diamond lil (Oct 6, 2003)

My parents forced me to take swim lessons when I was small and it is one of my worst childhood memories. I remember the last day of school, I asked my teacher if I could stay and go to school over the summer so I wouldn't be forced to go to swim lessons. My parents always joked that I never did learn how to swim.

In spite of my parents' best efforts, I did learn how to swim. A wonderful uncle of mine had the compassion and patience to teach me (in the ocean, no less!). Those few days I spent with my kind and caring uncle learning to swim in the ocean were by far more productive than the years I spent clinging to the side of a pool screaming my lungs out.

Sorry - that's just my expereince. (BTW, I plan on doing things A LOT different than my parents.)


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

It would be non-negotiable for me.

Either she has swimming lessons or she doesn't go swimming. Simple.

Quote:

To me, learning to swim is so important. But at the same time, I can't stand to think of bringing her to lessons crying and clinging to me and feeling terrified. She refuses to go even if I take a lesson with her, which is an option at the pool near us.
Then I'd explain to ther that's absolutely fine not to go swimming if she doesn't want to or is scared. I would never force a child into the water. BUT if she wants to go into the water, she needs lessons first.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Well... I'd take her to the pool without a lifejacket or swim ring and let her see how it goes, and point out the kids who can swim who are doing fun things like swimming to the bottom of the pool (which you can't do in a lifejacket).

If she's still vehemently opposed I would give it a term and try again then. I don't think there's any reason to force her (and it would be counterproductive).

But in the meantime, as a pp said, seriously limit her opportunities to swim. I would definitely not be reintroducing the swim aids - I am in NO way criticizing you and I think it's great she was so happy and comfortable this summer, but that is one of the down sides of using them; the kids can get overconfident.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I would absolutely not force it.

And I think it's really crappy to say you can't swim if you don't take lessons.







:

-Angela


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## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

I took formal swimming lessons every summer, but my best learning was done with my parents. We started with kicking on the side of the pool. Then she taught me to float by keeping her arms underneath me. That one one one instruction with someone I completely trusted was much more useful and a very efficient way to learn.

I still took swimming lessons and leanred some good pool safety, specific strokes, etc., but my Mom was really the person who taught me to swim.

Maybe if you work with your DC yourself for awhile formal swimming lessons will seem more appealing.


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## Izzy's Mom (Apr 15, 2002)

Swimming is a crucial skill in my opinion - but in your case it isn't such a bad idea to wait a year or two. I put my son in lessons at four and while he wasn't unhappy about the idea he really was so afraid he wasn't quite ready. Now, after a year of family time at the pool and such he is more comfortable actually learning some of the skills they try to teach.

So try and just spend time in the water with her without going to formal lessons - but maybe skip the floaties and life jacket so she understands what the true feeling of swimming is like.


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## NWmt_mama (Jul 22, 2005)

As a child I refused swim lessons too, and I grew up to be a college swimmer







. Not learning wasn't an option because we spent summers living on a lake. My mom taught me at first and then I eventually took classes to learn the strokes (5th grade age). This might not be an option for you, but maybe if you could arrange a one-on-one "lesson" it would help?

I have worked at 3 pools and none allowed kids to use swim floats and lifejackets. (if I remember correctly there was a thread about this recently, too). Perhaps you could explain that at some places, swimming with those items isn't permitted? Just an idea. When your other child takes lessons, maybe go to an open swim?

Maybe your dc will come around after watching a sibling take class. I agree that if your child is swimming, learning how to play safely, is critical.

Good luck!


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

She's 4. Even if she has has swim lessons, she won't be able to swim unattended/with a float device for a few years. My 4 year old didn't swim.
The same child went off the high dive all summer at 6.

I taught 5 year old water phobics swimming years ago. Want to guess how they got water phobic at the tender age of 5?

Leave it.

ETA: I'm a very competent swimmer. My kids learned the basics hanging onto my braid in the water. Having fun. My now 6 year old asked for lesson around the time she turned 6 because she wanted to get faster. My 3 year old is still hanging on the braid.


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## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

We live in California where there are pools and lakes and oceans everywhere. We also have a spa in our back yard. Learning to swim was a non negotiable thing in our home.

However, we didn't do it in a way that was mean or forceful. There are quite a few indoor, year round swim schools near us and I picked one that had a style of teaching I agreed with. There are also schools around her with a "toss them in and hope they swim" approach...I did NOT pick those places!

My daughter took lessons this summer, at the age of 4. The first day os lessons she did not want to put her face in the water. By the end of the 2 week lessons (every day for 2 weeks, 30 minutes a day) she was swimming the length of the pool, treading water, and able to jump in go under and swim to the side, and to roll and float. I was amazed. ETA: SHE WAS NOT MISERABLE. She was hesitant at first, but after the first day or two she was having fun, and after that she was looking forward to it. She did cry the last day, but that was because she did not want to end!

I think she learned so quickly beause she was ready, because she went daily as opposed to once a week, and because while her teacher and I were not forceful, we were firm and insistent.

After those 2 weeks she moved on to a once a week lesson for the rest of summer.

My son will be 3 in December and he will start lessons in the spring.

After my daughter learned the basics, they started teaching strokes. While it's nice that she can do free style, breast and back stroke; I really don't care.

All I cared about was that if she fell in to water, she would know how to get out. Children drown here way to often, so in our home, swim lessons by age 3 or 4 are not an option.


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

Quote:

I would definitely not be reintroducing the swim aids - I am in NO way criticizing you and I think it's great she was so happy and comfortable this summer, but that is one of the down sides of using them; the kids can get overconfident.
This was one of my fears when we introduced them this summer. She was rather afraid of the water, and my dh, who is a good swimmer (competed in highschool and was a life guard as well), thought it would make her feel comfortable enough to go in the water. And it did. But now I feel like she's so dependant on them (physically as well as psychologically) and it will be a hard habit to break.

She is, in general, a very slow-to-warm-up kid, and it takes her a long time to feel comfortable in new situations.

I didn't take swimming lessons until I was 5 (maybe 6?), and though I always felt slightly scared during the lessons, they were great for me and I did learn how to swim.

I think we'll let her watch my son's lessons and see if that helps her get used to the idea at all. (If she decides to take lessons, she could be in the same class with him this winter, and that might help her feel more comfortable. Or it might make her fear rub off on him.







)


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## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
She's 4. Even if she has has swim lessons, she won't be able to swim unattended/with a float device for a few years. My 4 year old didn't swim.


My concern was not about her being able to swim alone. When we are at the pool, I am on them like a hawk, when we are out on the boat, they wear life jackets, when we are at the beach, our eyes never leave them.

My concern was not her drowning while I sat by the side tanning and reading a magazine...it was her accidentally falling into a pool when we were not there to swim...a neighboors unlatched gate, the lakes all over the golf course by our house etc.


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## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

I totally get the concern. *The difficulty is that forced swim lessons are more likely to cause fear of the water than the ability to swim.*

I hope it didn't sound I thought OP is being neglectful. Far from it. She sound like you are concerned about your child's safety. Dc will be in exactly the same danger now as she was last year.

I communicated to my children that water is fun and a great way to relax together. We spent time together in the pool with my non-swimmers using *me* as their floatie.

Fun times without emphasizing danger and fear.


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

My kids have resisted swim lessons at times but they all learned.

I would keep trying.

It helps that our swim lessons go for a month at a time. So each month is a new enrollment period.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I would absolutely not force it.

And I think it's really crappy to say you can't swim if you don't take lessons.







:

-Angela









:

My DD will be 4 in October. At the start of the summer she was all jazzed to take swim lessons. She loved the water and wanted to learn more. Well 1 1/2 lessons in she was screaming bloody murder and hating the water because the UA violation of a swim instructor was forcing her to do stuff she was not ready for and scaring the living crap out of her (letting her sink to the bottom of the pool and waiting a minute before helping her up-














.

So we stopped lessons and stayed away from the pool for a few weeks. Then we took DD to a different pool, with a zero depth entry so she could wade out to a depth she was comfortable with and just started working with her. She started by getting comfortable with her head in the water (feet down). She would kind of crawl around with her head under water saying "I'm swimming!". Then one day she decided to try and lift up her feet and she did it! Then she added her hands to the motion (instead of holding her nose). After 2 months of self paced learning she is doing really well. She's not swimming laps but she has gained a lot of confidence. I know by next year she will be doing those laps.

I don't get why there is this pressure at the age of 4. Yes water safety and knowing how to swim are important but it is a skill that takes time to learn, like walking and potty training. We don't punish our children for taking months to learn these skills why should swimming be any different?


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## Maluhia (Jun 24, 2007)

I think watching the sibling enjoy lessons will get rid of her not wanting to join - if she still does not, wait. Like you seem to get - it's not worth them becoming afraid of the water.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

I havent read all the responses.

I think you need to seperate "swimming lessons" from "knowing how to swim"...my son knows how to swim, i absolutely trust him in the water as much as i would trust any child (would not leave him unsupervised, obviously)...he's a fish.

He has never had one single swimming lesson.

OTOH, my niece has had very limited exposure to water, and is very uncomfortable in the pool. She doesnt know what to do if she slips, she doesnt know how to float, she's just very unsure. I think lessons would be helpful to her, because she is the type of person that likes very clear cut directions on how to do things, my son is more of an experiential type of kid. He just jumps in the deep end, literally.

My son will be 11, my niece just turned 12. My son has been around water for most of his life.

If your dd likes to swim...let her!! Supervise of course, but let her do it. Its a complete fallacy that one needs lessons in order to learn the basics. She will learn how to swim by SWIMMING. (We're unschoolers, so i guess this idea that in order to learn something kids need lessons is kind of...







: to me.







)

Forcing her to take lessons may make her hate swimming and traumatize her. Not to mention damaging the trust she has with you. Not letting her swim may destroy whatever joy she has in the water.

Katherine


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

Quote:

I don't get why there is this pressure at the age of 4.
I don't either, and I obviously feel the pressure! It's like, rationally I tell myself, "Well, I didn't start learning till I was 5 or 6" but something else makes me feel frantic that she doesn't know how to swim yet (irrational, I realize).

I guess it's that, every summer, we spend about 2 weeks at my inlaws home on a lake. I mean _on_ a lake. You walk out the front door and it's _there_. So a) there's the fear about being safe so close to water and b) there's the pressure, which is stupid (and I need to get over), about dh swimming at 4 and dh's brother swimming at 4 and all the other cousins and relative swimming by 4 (which is probably some bs anyway).

And I just felt, this summer, seeing her with the fishy ring and life jacket that she really needs to learn not to rely on "devices" so much. I mean, yes, she's only 4, and I certainly don't want to push her. But at the same time, if she continues relying on the floaties, that's not safe or good either. And I'm afraid that she'll start to think she can only "swim" with floaties, and her fear of being without them will grow.

*sigh* I have to really think about this.

Thank you, everyone, for all your thoughts and ideas. It really helps to hear different philosophies and advice.


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

I agree that there's a huge distinction between swimming lessons and learning to swim. My DS swam like a fish by his 4th birthday. People constantly asked me "who taught him?" or "How old was he when he started lessons" the answer was nobody taught him, and he never took a lesson until this past summer when he was 8 and they had them at camp. He jumped right into a group that was perfecting it's breaststroke and butterfly.

Part of this is the DS is very instinctual about learning physical things. Part of it is that we spent a lot of time together in the water. I never forced anything but I also never clung to him or implied it was dangerous, and I never put a swim aid of any kind on him. He moved from riding around on my shoulders to jumping into my arms, to swimming on his own in a single summer when he was 3.

Having said that I don't think that learning how to swim at a young age is going to make the child safer. I always felt that my son was more at risk than kids who weren't comfortable in the water. Yes, it was possible he'd be able to swim to the edge and get out, but he was also much more likely to jump in than a water phobic child. He was also much more likely to try some crazy stunt like diving in the shallow end.


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## mysticmomma (Feb 8, 2005)

My daughter will be 3 next month. My father owns a home that has in in ground pool with a diving board. It goes to about 9 feet. She has been in the water since she was 8 months. First in a water sling, then in a life suit. We bought her one of those shorts/t-shirt with foam inserts. You can remove some as she gains confidence and ability. She fully understands that if she is in the pool without one of her floatie suits on, she will sink to the bottom. We have experimented with us right there (she is a dare devil), and she kicks and paddles, and starts to sink. We grab her of course, and she goes to get a floatie suit on. It sounds like your daughter isn't ready. If you had come on here about reading or potty learning, or sleeping, or trying foods, we all would say the same thing we are saying here. Slow down. Don't force it. Follow your child's lead. IT sounds like she gained a lot of experience, skill and knowledge from using the floatie suit, and IMO, she should be allowed to continue to use that. It's a teaching tool. Some pools won't let her in with it, and she'll understand that. Just like shell understand that she will sink without it. The more you push... nak... as she gains more experience next summer in a floatie suit, hopefully she will warm up to the idea that it would be ok to learn to swim without it. Seeing the class will be an extra motivator, but that motivation has to come from within. It's not a bad thing to allow our children to use crutches (or in this case floatation devices) as they learn new skills.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

What I say is, forget swim lessons for the year. Take her to the pool/lake/ocean FREQUENTLY, but do not allow the use of flotation devices. Let her get her feet wet (literally!). I guarantee it if you don't couch it as learning to swim, she'll be dog paddling around in no time.

Once she can dog paddle, reintroduce the idea of formal lessons


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
It would be non-negotiable for me.

Either she has swimming lessons or she doesn't go swimming. Simple.


Yep, here too.

BUT, it doesn't need to be formal lessons.

You DO need to get rid of *ALL* floatation devices unless she is on a boat. Nobody learns to swim with floaties, or swim rings.

She can still learn to swim just for fun in a pool with you as her playmate. But, until she learns to swim, all swim parties, or friends homes to swim would be out of the question. That is a recipe for disaster. A crowded pool, adults enjoying the afternoon. It's too hard to keep an eye on each child.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

I wouldn't try and give swim lessons to a child who was freaking out, but I wish I had pushed it a little more with my older daughter. She was afraid of water and didn't enjoy getting her head wet. She tried one swim lesson but didn't like having to put her face in the water. I didn't want to pay for lessons if she was going to balk and refuse to go in the water.

My friend kept telling me about the great swim place that only offers lessons for children up through grade 1. My older daughter was reaching the top of their age limit, my younger daughter hated water so much that she screamed if I tried to put her in the bathtub, pulled her legs up and dug her fingers into me so I couldn't let her go. She went for 6 months without even having her head wet down with water. I had no desire to take either of them to lessons.

My husband kept saying he wanted our kids to have swim lessons, and I finally enrolled dd2 when dd1 was in 2nd grade. It was really expensive and I was convinced it would be a waste of money, so I told them I wanted to try it out for awhile and I might not be back if she couldn't handle it. She was a couple months away from 3 and in with a few other children her age. In the beginning she liked going in the pool, but hated being dunked and when they got to that point, and a few times told me she didn't want to go, but we always went. A couple months into it, when she actually did a stroke or two on her own under the water and realized she was swimming on her own, it was like a switch turned. After that she would jump into the pool and was constantly under water, and she really has no fear. Which can be a bad thing, obviously, because I have to make sure she doesn't get in over her head, so to speak, but it is like night and day from where she was. She couldn't wait for swim lessons, it was her favorite part of the day and it was so worth the money, and she can jump into the pool and swim across it which just amazes me.

Meanwhile, my older daughter won't put her face in the water unless she is wearing a scuba mask, and she can't swim without it. So I wish I had pushed her a little earlier, but I still plan to find a place where she can learn to swim.


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## snuggly mama (Mar 29, 2004)

This is just a general comment, not directed at anyone in particular. It seems like many of the pp's are wanting their dc to learn how to swim to keep them safe (ie prevent drowning) in the water. But isn't it true that lots of people who drown DO know how to swim? I mean, my 12 yo swims like a fish, but I imagine if she fell off a boat or something like that, she could still drown despite her excellent swimming abilities, right?

I think swim lessons can be a good thing. I think it's important for kids who are around water a lot to know how to swim. I'm just wondering about the false sense of security thing.


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## astrophe27 (Aug 27, 2007)

Just go to the pool for open swim. The confidence will come with exposure.

Once her confidence is there, you can enroll her in Level 1 swim lessons.

A.


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

Quote:

OTOH, my niece has had very limited exposure to water, and is very uncomfortable in the pool. She doesnt know what to do if she slips, she doesnt know how to float, she's just very unsure. I think lessons would be helpful to her, because she is the type of person that likes very clear cut directions on how to do things, my son is more of an experiential type of kid. He just jumps in the deep end, literally.
My dd is a lot like your niece. Also, she learns better from people other than myself and dh. With us, she allows herself to whine and cry and not cooperate in ways that she does not seem to do (so far, in her limited experience) with "real" teachers. (That is, of course, if we can get her past the initial fear of going somewhere new.)

For example, just as a lark one day I decided to try to teach her how to skip when she was three. She got stubborn and frustrated and angry at me. But when she started ballet, skipping was a skill they worked on, and within two weeks she had perfected it.

Dh did try to teach her this summer at his parents' house, but she just got mad at him. I think if we could get her to take a lesson, she would listen to the instructors and probably learn quickly.


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

Quote:

You DO need to get rid of ALL floatation devices unless she is on a boat. Nobody learns to swim with floaties, or swim rings.
I know. *sigh* I really felt opposed to it this summer, but she was so fearful of the water without it, and not enjoying the vacation much (as so much was based around the water), that when someone suggested it, I thought, sure. Why not. Now I know why not.









Quote:

But, until she learns to swim, all swim parties, or friends homes to swim would be out of the question. That is a recipe for disaster. A crowded pool, adults enjoying the afternoon. It's too hard to keep an eye on each child.
We wouldn't do that, and she wouldn't allow it.







She is very clingy in social situations, or any situation in which she feel uncomfortable (water being one of them). Add to that the fact that dh and I are both very concerned about water safety. It'll be some time before she or we will allow her to be without arm's reach around water.


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## MomInCalifornia (Jul 17, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *snuggly mama* 
This is just a general comment, not directed at anyone in particular. It seems like many of the pp's are wanting their dc to learn how to swim to keep them safe (ie prevent drowning) in the water. But isn't it true that lots of people who drown DO know how to swim? I mean, my 12 yo swims like a fish, but I imagine if she fell off a boat or something like that, she could still drown despite her excellent swimming abilities, right?

I think swim lessons can be a good thing. I think it's important for kids who are around water a lot to know how to swim. I'm just wondering about the false sense of security thing.

Yes, many people who drown know how to swim, but often the children in our area who drown have fallen in to a backyard pool or spa and just didn't know how to get to the side and climb out.


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

My 4 year old is the same. Does not want to take lessons. Tried it last spring and she hated the "deep end" with a passion and was freaked so we quit. Next summer, we will try another program and try taking her into the water with us more often. She'll get there eventually. Just give her time.


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I would respect her wishes. Forcing her seems so very disrespectful to me. Particularly since she has found a way to enjoy the water without the lessons. Many people can and do learn to swim without lessons. If safety is a concern perhaps you can share some things with her that are important to you. Maybe read a book together?


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I would absolutely not force it.

And I think it's really crappy to say you can't swim if you don't take lessons.







:

-Angela

About as crappy as saying you can't ride in the car unless you're strapped into a seat. And since MORE KIDS DROWN THAN DIE IN CAR CRASHES, I'd say let her sit in the front seat unrestrained, but enforce the swimming rule.

Any child who's swimming needs to know how to float, they need to not panic when their face gets wet, and they need to be able to jump in, and get straught to the side and out. Panic is what kills kids in pools.

Quote:

She was rather afraid of the water, and my dh, who is a good swimmer (competed in highschool and was a life guard as well), thought it would make her feel comfortable enough to go in the water. And it did. But now I feel like she's so dependant on them (physically as well as psychologically) and it will be a hard habit to break.

She is, in general, a very slow-to-warm-up kid, and it takes her a long time to feel comfortable in new situations.
It sounds like she wouldn't mind a few non-water related summer holidays.

But if you really want her to become comfortable, try a one-on one lesson (or have an instructor show you the first things they do, like floating, or face in water), and then repeat the lesson on your own with her in a very shallow pool, or the bath.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

My DS 2 is now 6. At the beginning of the summer in 2006 he was still unable to swim independantly and was wearing a lifevest in the water. I never pressured him, never forced him into swim lessons etc... we just went to the pool all the time and he loved the water, didn't mind jumping in etc...one day he decided he was ready to try it without the lifevest just like the other big boys. It took me two trips ti the pool to teach him how to paddle with his face in the water so he could swim from whever he was to the side of the pool and that was it, he was done with the vest and he swims like a champ and has never had a lesson. I know that a lot of people swear by never giving kids a swim aid, but I gave them to both my boys and they both learned how to swim without them eventually. FWIW, I think swimming needs to be fun. I get the whole safety aspect as I live in AZ and we hear about drownings all the time, but in the end, swimming is a recreational activity. Let her have fun for another year or so. If she hasn't learned by the time she hits 6 then maybe look into one of the survival swim programs that are around that basically teach a kid how to swim to the side of the pool if they accidentally fall in.


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## Rivka5 (Jul 13, 2005)

According to the AAP, there's absolutely no evidence that swimming lessons reduce the risk of drowning in children that young. So I don't see any benefit to pushing it.

Just let her play in the water with you or another adult at her side. When she's more comfortable with moving in the water, she'll be ready to learn.


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

Quote:

It sounds like she wouldn't mind a few non-water related summer holidays.
We also went to Disney World.







: And she does enjoy going to the lake house. I mean, there are other things to do besides the water. (I'm afraid my other post made it seem like that's _all_ we do there, which isn't the case, although there is an awful lot of swimming and water skiing and boating. I mean, it's a lake, after all!) Of course, now she loves the water. As long as her life vest and fishy ring are on.









Quote:

But if you really want her to become comfortable, try a one-on one lesson (or have an instructor show you the first things they do, like floating, or face in water), and then repeat the lesson on your own with her in a very shallow pool, or the bath.
I am going to look into one-on-one lessons. I think that would be way less intimidating for her than a class.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

I would not force my daughter to take lessons. She's 18 months old and can roll over to float on her back, kick her legs, and is starting to hold her breath under water and blow bubbles... all without lessons. We go to the pool nearly everyday and she doesn't wear a life jacket.

I grew up in the water. For as long as I can remember, every summer I was in or near some body of water, and I didn't start lessons until I was almost 10, and even then, I blew past everyone in my age group and was advanced because I was such a strong swimmer.

But, if your child is not confident in the water and has no way to learn (ie, YOU getting in the pool WITH her and teaching her about water safety) then I don't think it's unreasonable to hold off on swimming until she takes some basic swim lessons. I'm more concerned with water safety then actual swimming.

She can learn to swim, but if she's running on the deck and slips and cracks her head open on the way to the water, it's not going to matter if she can swim while she's unconcious.

I think the best favor your can do for your kids is to be around water and learn a healthy respect for it. You don't need lessons to do that (unless of course you don't know how to swim yourself).


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

I think one-on-one lessons sound like a great idea.


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

Learning to swim is extremely important, but I wouldn't worry about it if a 4 year old isn't interested. I'd just wait some months or years until she's ready.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
About as crappy as saying you can't ride in the car unless you're strapped into a seat. And since MORE KIDS DROWN THAN DIE IN CAR CRASHES, I'd say let her sit in the front seat unrestrained, but enforce the swimming rule.

Any child who's swimming needs to know how to float, they need to not panic when their face gets wet, and they need to be able to jump in, and get straught to the side and out. Panic is what kills kids in pools.


Any lifeguard or public safety official will tell you that swimming lessons and swimming skills DO NOT make children safe in water. That is totally false and a very dangerous thing to cling to.

Many preschoolers and below CAN NOT float. It has to do with the way they are built. My dd has been in swimming since she was 1. She's an exceptional swimmer (not just mama pride talking- she's something of an example at the place she takes lessons) and yet she has just been able to float within the past 2 months. She's worked at it for 2 years. Her body has just changed enough now that she CAN float on her back.

I agree- panic can kill in the water. Lessons do not ensure that there is no panic.

Children should not swim without CLOSE adult supervision. PERIOD. EVER. Children should not be around water without CLOSE adult supervision. PERIOD. EVER. No amount of swimming lessons changes that. All it does is build false security.

My dd is an excellent swimmer. In my parents' pool she can swim to the side and get out from any point in the pool. Does that mean I leave her there? Absolutely not. She doesn't swim without an adult RIGHT THERE in the water with her. And she won't any time soon.

To force swimming lessons to swim is counterproductive, silly and mean. A child who is afraid of the water is not going to build confidence being forced into lessons. They build confidence by having a series of positive water experiences with a parent. You must build the confidence before lessons are any use.

-Angela


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

They will swim when they are ready. My latest swimmer was Lilyka and she is now, a few months later, ready to join a competition swim team and the families strongest swimmer. but she was 7 1/2 before she would put her face in the water.

we did have a no flotation device rule. also these are band at the public pools and I couldn't keep up with three children who couldn't swim so until I could, we just didn't swim much. It wasn't putative. I just couldn't manage two non-swimmers safely. So until they were willing to learn to swim relatively well we just couldn't go to the pool. Both girls learned to swim in a span of 1 week this summer (Ava actually picked it up in a out 15 minutes). We went through two rounds of lessons in 6 weeks and by the end of round two Lily was crazy good and Ava could get to the side of the pool (she is 4). I am good with that but she loves swimming lessons (very sweet and gentle teacher) and the next round starts in 2 weeks.

i would just wait until your dd is ready. she will learn so much faster and naturally. I don't think it would be wrong to lay down some ground rules with swimming though. No life vests ect. close enough for you to touch her at all times, and perhaps no swimming until she takes lessons (even if she doesn't progress quickly).


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:

Nobody learns to swim with floaties, or swim rings.
Perhaps not, but they're not always going to want to wear them. And when they no longer want to wear them, at that point they'll learn to swim. At least that's what happened with my kids.









To the OP, I appreciate your dilemma, but forcing it will only backfire on you. Here's what I would do: I would ''accidentally'' lose the floaties and "realize'' it only once you're at the pool, and ask her if she'd still like to go swimming. If she doesn't, fine; try again another time. If she does, you're on your way. Once you've done this a number of times and she's used to going without the floaties, then I would hire a private teacher to just come just hang out with her initially, play, and only gradually (still, as play) ease into swimming skills.


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## pigpokey (Feb 23, 2006)

Most 4yo's can learn without lessons.

If it's important to you, take away the floats and take her year round to a pool where she can stand up. She'll protest a few times on the floats. Mine can be distracted by thoughts of a trip to the ice cream store, etc.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Children should not swim without CLOSE adult supervision. PERIOD. EVER. Children should not be around water without CLOSE adult supervision. PERIOD. EVER. No amount of swimming lessons changes that. All it does is build false security.









:

I live in Florida, land of a gazillion ponds, canals, and intercoastal water ways. Within 200 feet from our house are TWO canals. My best line of defense is to supervise my daughter at all times. No parent should let their guard down or feel comforted by the fact that their kid can swim. Period.

I would invest in locks for your gates and doors before swimming lessons.

One of our canals has a concrete wall. No amount of swimming skills will help her if she knocks herself unconscious before she hits the water. And no amount of swimming skills will help her if she plays near a canal that has gators or quick sand.

Swimming lessons and kids do not equal safety. Your kid being able to bob around the pool in your back yard while you have a BBQ is different then your kid accidentally falling into the pool, in the dark, by themselves.

If you live near water and you don't want your kid to drown, you need to keep you kid away from the water when you can't supervise. That is the only guaranteed method. It's that simple.


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## punkrawkmama27 (Aug 31, 2007)

I signed dd up for lessons 2 years in a row. Some days she wanted to go, some days not. They had a huge slide, somedays she wanted to do it with everyone else, some days not. We live by a large lake and my parents have a big pool, and someday I hope to get a pool. I want her to do what the other kids do at swim lessons, I want her to be comfortable in the water, but I never forced her. Also, when she did get to the point where she felt comfortable swimming it made me even more nervous. She was braver in the water. I would take her to the lake swimming and she would go out further than she was allowed to go because she "knows how to swim". My parents warned me that the overconfidence that she has taken swim lessons can be dangerous too.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
If you live near water and you don't want your kid to drown, you need to keep you kid away from the water when you can't supervise. That is the only guaranteed method. It's that simple.

Totally agreed, and I think there is a good thread on this somewhere (my search skills are not up to the task!)

But I also consider swimming to be one of those life skills that it's great to encourage, and with some kids who aren't the kind who leap in head first (ha) sometimes I think a parent just taking it as a matter of fact - you brush your teeth, one day soon you will take lessons" can help.

However I don't think waiting a term or a year is going to make a huge difference. When I was teaching swimming though, I did notice that it does help if the kids start learning (formally or informally, whatever) at the time that they are still acquiring a lot of physical skills; it's just that the social factor gets to be more and more and if they get labelled "the kid who can't swim" they sometimes start labelling themselves that way. BUT you have to know YOUR kid.

OP though you have plenty of time, IMHO


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
But I also consider swimming to be one of those life skills that it's great to encourage

Yes, encourage. Not force.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
Yes, encourage. Not force.

Sure, but I don't see anyone saying that she should drag her daughter kicking and screaming to the pool.


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Sure, but I don't see anyone saying that she should drag her daughter kicking and screaming to the pool.

Then why all the "swimming lessons are non negotiable" comments? I you are not going to "negotiate" whether or not they WILL take lessons, then you are essentially forcing them.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:

Any lifeguard or public safety official will tell you that swimming lessons and swimming skills DO NOT make children safe in water. That is totally false and a very dangerous thing to cling to.
makes them safer than a flotation device ona child who panics if their face gets wet.

Quote:

Children should not swim without CLOSE adult supervision. PERIOD. EVER. Children should not be around water without CLOSE adult supervision. PERIOD. EVER. No amount of swimming lessons changes that. All it does is build false security.
And you're never ever going to take your eyes off her until she's a teenager? What if she opens the door, wanders next door and falls in their pool because they left the gate open? What if she decides to run herself a bath while you're cooking and think she's suing the toilet and gets her face wet and panics?

All children need to have safe water skills.


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I would absolutely not force it.

And I think it's really crappy to say you can't swim if you don't take lessons.







:

-Angela


I Completely agree.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
She's 4. Even if she has has swim lessons, she won't be able to swim unattended/with a float device for a few years. My 4 year old didn't swim.
The same child went off the high dive all summer at 6.

I taught 5 year old water phobics swimming years ago. Want to guess how they got water phobic at the tender age of 5?

Leave it.

ETA: I'm a very competent swimmer. My kids learned the basics hanging onto my braid in the water. Having fun. My now 6 year old asked for lesson around the time she turned 6 because she wanted to get faster. My 3 year old is still hanging on the braid.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Any lifeguard or public safety official will tell you that swimming lessons and swimming skills DO NOT make children safe in water. That is totally false and a very dangerous thing to cling to.

Many preschoolers and below CAN NOT float. It has to do with the way they are built. My dd has been in swimming since she was 1. She's an exceptional swimmer (not just mama pride talking- she's something of an example at the place she takes lessons) and yet she has just been able to float within the past 2 months. She's worked at it for 2 years. Her body has just changed enough now that she CAN float on her back.

I agree- panic can kill in the water. Lessons do not ensure that there is no panic.

Children should not swim without CLOSE adult supervision. PERIOD. EVER. Children should not be around water without CLOSE adult supervision. PERIOD. EVER. No amount of swimming lessons changes that. All it does is build false security.

My dd is an excellent swimmer. In my parents' pool she can swim to the side and get out from any point in the pool. Does that mean I leave her there? Absolutely not. She doesn't swim without an adult RIGHT THERE in the water with her. And she won't any time soon.

*To force swimming lessons to swim is counterproductive, silly and mean. A child who is afraid of the water is not going to build confidence being forced into lessons. They build confidence by having a series of positive water experiences with a parent. You must build the confidence before lessons are any use.*
-Angela

Emphasis mine -

Yup.

I had to check my web address when I saw "no swim lessons, no water time". Mean imo.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
makes them safer than a flotation device ona child who panics if their face gets wet.

Stats please?

-Angela


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
And you're never ever going to take your eyes off her until she's a teenager? What if she opens the door, wanders next door and falls in their pool because they left the gate open? What if she decides to run herself a bath while you're cooking and think she's suing the toilet and gets her face wet and panics?

All children need to have safe water skills.

I will monitor her in a way that that does not happen. It's responsible parenting. Kids don't drown in the bathtub because they panic because their face is wet. That's absurd.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but it is dangerously incorrect.

-Angela


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
What if she opens the door, wanders next door and falls in their pool because they left the gate open?

And if she cracks her skull open before falls into the water? Then what?

Quote:

All children need to have safe water skills.
I totally agree, except that I don't think safe water skills equates to enforcing swim lessons. To me it means teaching my child how to be responsible AROUND water.

I think it makes more sense to teach your kid the skills to prevent being hurt around the water instead of teaching them what happens when they fall in, if they're still conscious or not panicking.

And if your kid can open doors and wander the neighborhood long enough to find an accessible pool, I would be addressing that ASAP.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *North_Of_60* 
And if your kid can open doors and wander the neighborhood long enough to find an accessible pool, I would be addressing that ASAP.

Boy howdy....

-Angela


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

OP, I think it comes down to you knowing your kid best.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with just about everyone in this thread. I don't think the solution is ALWAYS to "force" swim lessons, neither is it to NEVER "force" them.

It all depends on the personality of your child and how you know they deal with things best.

If your DD has a fear of the water, then you may need to give up the convenience of having a group lesson at a regular pool. But that doesn't necessarily mean that she'll "get better" with just you.

My DD had a very traumatizing near-drowning experience in her grandfather's pool. She was not, frankly, going to just get better with me or her dad. We'd done what we could, getting her to the point that she was semi-comfortable and able to have a good time once in the water, nor was she afraid in the pool area...but the edge of the pool was a different matter.

What we ended up doing is getting her private swim lessons at a private home pool with a lady who's been teaching kids and adults who are afraid of the water for over 20 years. Yes, DD had to face some of her fear, and it wasn't a totally all the time happy experience. But she connected with the teacher almost immediately, I was there the entire time as well, and after the 1st lesson she now loves going to swim lessons and is now paddling back and forth across the pool and jumps off the sides and the diving board every single swimming session. It's slightly less expensive than private lessons at the city pool, but not by much. But definitely worth it. DD has her confidence back, she was floating on air she was so proud *of herself*.

This worked for us. I consider swimming skills non-negotiable as well, sorry that apparently that makes me an atrocious parent. I wouldn't expect it to work for everyone, because not everyone has a child with a personality like mine or has the same situation as our family or the same priorities as I do.

I encourage the OP to let her DD sit with her while the other one takes lessons (this is one way that Fi was able to be within sight of a pool without having a fear reaction--she liked cheering her brothers on.) Even though it's not "equal", it may be in everyone's best interest for at least a session of private one-on-one instruction for your DD that is afraid. That takes some of the anxiety and pressure off if you can take the time to find one of the senior instructors there that connects with your DD. For us, we needed to go the small home pool/private instruction route because the large pool environment was too much for DD to handle AND deal with being scared AND trying to learn the skills she wanted to have to deal with another fall-in situation.

Now she wants to go to family swim nights at the big pool. Which we do, but we're keeping her private swim lessons at the other place.

So there *is* no one size fits all solution to this. Make this into a Sucky Parent contest and everyone loses, because not everyone is like the person who's making the accusations. What worked for us may or may not work for you and that's okay. But there's a hell of a lot more choices than public swim lessons or learning with a parent only. I wouldn't have thought about the other possibilities if I hadn't had a child who needed a different option.

I have no regrets. I feel a rush of happiness every time I see my kid jumping off the diving board and popping up and swimming to side and screeching with delight "Mama did you SEE how far I dove this time?" And to see her grinning with pride after picking up a new skill, being able to swim even further without assistance, ect.

I think whatever gets your kid to that point where they are savvy to water danger but are able to have a good time when they're in it with adults they trust is just fine. Sometimes you have to widen your horizons a bit to find the path that YOU need to take to get there.


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## Cloth4Colin (Dec 12, 2004)

This is one of those situations where I would say that it's really an individual decision for each family - i.e. how far to push the subject. Swim lessons were forced upon me as a child and I'm still scared of the water to this day...and I cannot swim that well either.

I went into the lessons scared and did not have understanding "teachers". They forced us to go underwater and even held us under if we refused - these were "certified" people through our YMCA. NOT a good experience all around for me.

I don't think I will force lessons upon my children, but rather limit their water accessibility until they are more competant in swimming.


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## Jen_in_NH (Jul 16, 2007)

I think it all depends on the situation, and on your child. I'll be teaching my son to swim as soon as he can. I live on the river, about 200 ft up from the dam. Swimming is a non-negotiable skill here. He doesn't need to be an olympic swimmer - doggy paddling and getting his head underwater is good enough (if he doesn't like the rest) At least he likes the water so far!

If I didn't have something quite so dangerous in the backyard, I might be a bit looser about it (I'm not saying pools, tubs, etc aren't as dangerous, but a flooded river comes up fast, and moves quick)

Just my thoughts, for my son. It doesn't work that way for everyone.

Jen


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## Novella (Nov 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I would absolutely not force it.

And I think it's really crappy to say you can't swim if you don't take lessons.







:

-Angela

About as crappy as saying you can't ride in the car unless you're strapped into a seat. And since MORE KIDS DROWN THAN DIE IN CAR CRASHES, I'd say let her sit in the front seat unrestrained, but enforce the swimming rule.

Actually, this isn't true. Please refer to:

"the spectrum of child injury deaths is *dominated* by road traffic accidents - a finding that also holds true for every individual OECD nation." (emphasis mine)
This is taken from a UNICEF report "Child Deaths by Injury in Rich Nations". They cite 41% of deaths as caused by vehicle accidents and 15% by drownings.

I agree that swimming is an important skill. However, I also agree with the many who say that swimming lessons doesn't = swimming skills. Certainly, there have been children age4 and younger who have drowned, but I think that if she's only 4, you have some time. At that age, their worries and confidence levels/interests change SO quickly anyway. You might be waging a war over something that will dissapate on its own over a couple of months if no one makes a big deal about it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Well... I'd take her to the pool without a lifejacket or swim ring and let her see how it goes, and point out the kids who can swim who are doing fun things like swimming to the bottom of the pool (which you can't do in a lifejacket).

This was something we did with our DD#2 (MUCH more timid than DD#1). She was used to "swimming" with a life jacket. I had our other kids assigned elsewhere so I could concentrate on her. We removed the lifejacket and - quick as a blink - she launched herself off the wall of the pool and promptly dunked herself. Emerged a second later, spluttering and howling. I was right there. There was no danger. She just pushed off away from me, so I couldn't prevent the dunking. It was an _extremely_ valuable lesson for her - she had simply assumed that once she removed her lifejacket, she would be swimming well without it as she witnessed her older sister doing. I comforted her quickly and we resumed our informal "lesson". She hasn't started formal swimming lessons yet, but the family time we've spent at pools is certainly helping her learn about water safety.

(Sorry about the goofy font sizes. I'm not sure what I messed up and this was the best I could fix it!)







:


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## ananas (Jun 6, 2006)

I wouldn't force it. I taught myself to swim when I was 7, with arm wings on. I experimented with kicking my legs and arms, until I was comfortable removing one wing, and then worked up to removing the other wing. Today, I'm a great swimmer who absolutely loves to do it. Just don't worry about it, it will happen in time.


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## jamsmama (Jul 16, 2005)

I never had a swim lesson and I never learned safe water skills. The thought of being put in the water against my will when I was a child gave me nightmares.

I vividly remember going with my siblings to the pool when I was about 6 or 7 and starting from the shallow end and week by week I would inch my way further and further. Within weeks I was diving off of the Olympic style (really high one) diving board. You couldn't get me OUT of the water from then on. I eventually went on to be part of my high school swim team and swam in the ocean in Southern California with 6-10' waves. It's just like potty learning....it will eventually happen without force or rules.


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

Ds1 is a good swimmer and flourished at swimming lessons.

Ds2 went to swimming lesssons for 4 terms from age 5 or so and it was a waste of money. He can't swim like they want him to but he doesn't drown!
He has to do swimming classes at school once a week now and he hates it. He is a natural climber and speller but despite being born in water and living next to the Carribean when he was a toddler he is not a swimmer







:

My dad used to say he had 'negative buoyancy' and never swam for any reason despite my mum's best efforts to encourage him. She is a good swimmer and swims at least once a week.

As with any other skill, listen to your child, watch your child and follow their lead. If she is having fun in the water with her swim aids let her have fun.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

I agree that it's really crappy to say that she can't swim if she doesn't take lessons. A more logical consuquence is for her to not be allowed in water that goes past her armpits. And I wouldn't allow floaties either. A lifejacket is a safety tool, like a seatbelt. It's not a toy. The only times that my children use lifejackets are if we're on a boat, or at a lake that's too murky for me to see them in the water. But they still aren't allowed to go to a depth that they wouldn't be able to go in in a pool without a lifejacket.


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## greeny (Apr 27, 2007)

Quote:

If your DD has a fear of the water, then you may need to give up the convenience of having a group lesson at a regular pool. But that doesn't necessarily mean that she'll "get better" with just you.

My DD had a very traumatizing near-drowning experience in her grandfather's pool. She was not, frankly, going to just get better with me or her dad. We'd done what we could, getting her to the point that she was semi-comfortable and able to have a good time once in the water, nor was she afraid in the pool area...but the edge of the pool was a different matter.

What we ended up doing is getting her private swim lessons at a private home pool with a lady who's been teaching kids and adults who are afraid of the water for over 20 years. Yes, DD had to face some of her fear, and it wasn't a totally all the time happy experience. But she connected with the teacher almost immediately, I was there the entire time as well, and after the 1st lesson she now loves going to swim lessons and is now paddling back and forth across the pool and jumps off the sides and the diving board every single swimming session. It's slightly less expensive than private lessons at the city pool, but not by much. But definitely worth it. DD has her confidence back, she was floating on air she was so proud *of herself*.

This worked for us. I consider swimming skills non-negotiable as well, sorry that apparently that makes me an atrocious parent. I wouldn't expect it to work for everyone, because not everyone has a child with a personality like mine or has the same situation as our family or the same priorities as I do.

I encourage the OP to let her DD sit with her while the other one takes lessons (this is one way that Fi was able to be within sight of a pool without having a fear reaction--she liked cheering her brothers on.) Even though it's not "equal", it may be in everyone's best interest for at least a session of private one-on-one instruction for your DD that is afraid. That takes some of the anxiety and pressure off if you can take the time to find one of the senior instructors there that connects with your DD. For us, we needed to go the small home pool/private instruction route because the large pool environment was too much for DD to handle AND deal with being scared AND trying to learn the skills she wanted to have to deal with another fall-in situation.

Now she wants to go to family swim nights at the big pool. Which we do, but we're keeping her private swim lessons at the other place.

So there *is* no one size fits all solution to this. Make this into a Sucky Parent contest and everyone loses, because not everyone is like the person who's making the accusations. What worked for us may or may not work for you and that's okay. But there's a hell of a lot more choices than public swim lessons or learning with a parent only. I wouldn't have thought about the other possibilities if I hadn't had a child who needed a different option.

I have no regrets. I feel a rush of happiness every time I see my kid jumping off the diving board and popping up and swimming to side and screeching with delight "Mama did you SEE how far I dove this time?" And to see her grinning with pride after picking up a new skill, being able to swim even further without assistance, ect.

I think whatever gets your kid to that point where they are savvy to water danger but are able to have a good time when they're in it with adults they trust is just fine. Sometimes you have to widen your horizons a bit to find the path that YOU need to take to get there.
Kitty, I loved reading your post! I can see my daughter really enjoying private lessons like that. I am currently looking into private lessons at the "big" pool, though the size of it might be intimidating to her. We'll see.

Thanks again, everyone, for all your responses and insights. We definitely would not send her kicking and screaming to lessons that she didn't want to take. It would be cruel and pointless, as she would flat-out refuse to do anything in class. (She is verrrrry sensitive and strong willed.) So I will have to find a way to get her comfortable with taking lessons.

I agree with those of you who have said that swimming lessons isn't the only way to learn to swim. But as I mentioned earlier, dd is very resistant to learning from us. She lets her emotions fly (frustration, fear, etc.) and ends up whining, crying, and refusing to cooperate. She, in general, seems to learn much better from official teachers.

The lessons we're going to sign ds up for don't start till this winter, so we're not in a hurry to make a decision. I totally dropped the topic at home, and over the past few days she's been bringing it up and asking about it. The kids could be in the same class, and dd feels good about that (which is interesting, because ds is younger, but the idea of having him in her lesson seems to make her feel so much more comfortable







).


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