# I smacked him on the rump....



## NotTheOnlyOne (Oct 23, 2006)

My ds is only 15 months old. I do home daycare. We play outside 2 times a day and my yard is not fenced in. Ds is the youngest of the group, but the only one I have this many problems with. There are boundaries... YOu cant go down the hill to the neighbors yard, you cant go up the hill to the other neighbor's yard and you cant go past the corner of the house (I put a orange bench there) towards the front. All the boundaries are clearly marked.

Ds is very verbal and smart. He understands the boundaries. He walks over to the bench, stops, looks at me. I say, "Simon, turn around... come back." He smiles. And walks up the hill. When he sees me coming to get him he laughs and runs.

I pick him up and say, "no-no. We stay down here." And I bring him back.

Repeat ad nauseum. Over and over and over and over. 15 times in 15 minutes. I redirect with the sandbox, a bike, a ride-in car, balls in between.

Every day. Until I get so frustrated that I pick him up and hit him on the tush and say, "Mama said no! Stay down here." And he cries. And then he goes back to the bench and looks at me and smiles.... waiting for me to come get him.

This has been going on for 2 weeks now. Please help.


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## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

is it possible to not chase him? I found once I stopped chasing Ben he stopped running. OR wait a few months, the novelty will wear off and your legs, will be AWESOME!


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

15 months is a baby. Whether or not he's verbal really isn't the issue. He doesn't have the impulse control to stay safe in this situation. Obviously he's not a bad kid and he's showing you from his behavior that what you are asking of him right now isn't something he's capable of doing.

I'm wondering if:
1. There can be organized activities in the yard so he's more inclined to stay close. He seems to like chasing games maybe you can find a way to make that a game that he can expect while still staying in the part of the yard where he is safe.
2. If there is some way you could fence off part of the yard.

As far as the spanking. It is a choice. You can make a decision right now that you aren't going to do it no matter how frustrated you are.


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## NotTheOnlyOne (Oct 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hakeber* 
is it possible to not chase him? I found once I stopped chasing Ben he stopped running. OR wait a few months, the novelty will wear off and your legs, will be AWESOME!









I can let him go in two directions because the neighbors close us in... He can get really far away though and then the other kids see him over there and want to go too. Maybe I can try that this weekend when he is the only one out there.


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## NotTheOnlyOne (Oct 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Roar* 
15 months is a baby. Whether or not he's verbal really isn't the issue. He doesn't have the impulse control to stay safe in this situation. Obviously he's not a bad kid and he's showing you from his behavior that what you are asking of him right now isn't something he's capable of doing.

I'm wondering if:
1. There can be organized activities in the yard so he's more inclined to stay close. He seems to like chasing games maybe you can find a way to make that a game that he can expect while still staying in the part of the yard where he is safe.
2. If there is some way you could fence off part of the yard.

As far as the spanking. It is a choice. You can make a decision right now that you aren't going to do it no matter how frustrated you are.

I know. In the moment it seems like it would get my point across, but it doesn't seem to work









Maybe I'll try chasing him for a few minutes in the boundaries and see if that satisfies his need to be chased. Good idea, thanks.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Roar* 
15 months is a baby. Whether or not he's verbal really isn't the issue. He doesn't have the impulse control to stay safe in this situation. [snip]

As far as the spanking. It is a choice. You can make a decision right now that you aren't going to do it no matter how frustrated you are.









:

He's simply too young for the impulse control you're expecting. It's not fair or developmentally appropriate.

And hitting him is wrong.







: Obviously it's not working. Please stop.

-Angela


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Can you fence the yard? I don't think I'd feel good about using a home DCP without a fenced yard. I know it's pricey, but...I am about to have kid #2, and we are getting the yard fenced, just to take that concern off my mind when I'm watching more than one.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Quote:

*My ds is only 15 months old.*
At this age, he's exploring what he can do/how his actions seem to cause your REactions. When you keep telling him what he _can't_ do, and it's not working. Redirection is a fabulous tool, but have you also considered showing him/explaining what he _can_ do? IME, thinking cones would be enough to contain any of my little ones would have caused me enormous frustration and would have been extremely unrealistic. Is there anyway to create a safe, enclosed area for him? I can promise that this will pass, but I totally understand how frustrating it is in the moment. When I get to the point where I'm out of options (and for me, hitting is never an option) it's a signal to me that *I* need to make some changes, because I can't make nor expect my baby to do the changing...if that makes sense. IIRC, there should still be a stickied thread at the top of the forum about all the things you CAN do instead of hitting. Best wishes, and I think it's great that you recognize that the situation needs help


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Here is the link: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=454664


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## NotTheOnlyOne (Oct 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Can you fence the yard? I don't think I'd feel good about using a home DCP without a fenced yard. I know it's pricey, but...I am about to have kid #2, and we are getting the yard fenced, just to take that concern off my mind when I'm watching more than one.

We rent... and its a duplex. We are moving (buying) soon, but our lease isnt up until April. Its a walkout basement, so its down a hill far away from the street... and there is only one way to get to the street, thats up the driveway where the orange bench is. In the other directions you can get pretty far, but it is all boxed in by the neighbor's fences... so not so much a danger.


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## NotTheOnlyOne (Oct 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *georgia* 
At this age, he's exploring what he can do/how his actions seem to cause your REactions. When you keep telling him what he _can't_ do, and it's not working. Redirection is a fabulous tool, but have you also considered showing him/explaining what he _can_ do? IME, thinking cones would be enough to contain any of my little ones would have caused me enormous frustration and would have been extremely unrealistic. Is there anyway to create a safe, enclosed area for him? I can promise that this will pass, but I totally understand how frustrating it is in the moment. When I get to the point where I'm out of options (and for me, hitting is never an option) it's a signal to me that *I* need to make some changes, because I can't make nor expect my baby to do the changing...if that makes sense. IIRC, there should still be a stickied thread at the top of the forum about all the things you CAN do instead of hitting. Best wishes, and I think it's great that you recognize that the situation needs help









Actually, I have that list printed out and hanging around the playroom. Its very helpful to read it all the time.

This issue is hard though. And I know spanking isnt the answer. I dont do it out of anger....Its just a knee jerk raction. I have never hit any of the kids in my daycare... for some reason my brain feels its ok to hit my own ds even though my heart knows its not right. I will try some of these other ideas and see if things change.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Mt DD is 2.5 years and she does not have impulse control in those situations. Older DD was not like this-- she rarely ran away. It's really hard.

You said it's been going on for 2 weeks. Clearly, right or wrong, the spanking is not working. Remember the definition of insanity-- doing something the same way over and over, and expecting a different result. Maybe think of it that way (spanking does not work) instead of "I shouldn't spank."

Maybe the answer is one of those free-form fence things. I think they are super expensive, though.

Maybe a playpen? Not as a time-out, just as a break for you when he's running away too much.


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

DS just turned 16 months old (today!) and has been doing exactly the same thing for a few weeks. It's a game. He knows what the boundaries are, but he doesn't *get* it yet. He doesn't abstract it out to "the boundaries are here because there might be danger on the other side -- a dog, a moving car, etc." And that's completely age-appropriate, to know that you've set visual boundaries but not really understand why. The intellect is there, but the impulse-control and abstract thinking aren't so much.

I've found that I can chase him ad nauseum, I can change the boundaries to be fully enclosing, or I can play with him somewhere else. Until the impulse control develops, he simply isn't going to get bored with this game. It's fun. He will ALWAYS get a reaction from me because it's a safety issue and I can't ignore it. So for the meantime, since we aren't fencing in our yard, I either stay right on top of him or we play inside. He will grow out of it. Maybe a little after I'd like him to, but it will happen.


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## Beppie (Oct 24, 2005)

My reaction is this:

1. He doesn't understand the "why" behind why he shouldn't do what he's doing, he's just a baby.

2. Therefore he's doing it because he likes your reaction.

When dd used to do things repeatedly that I didn't like, if it wasn't anything dangerous of course, I would just ignore her. And she stopped doing whatever it was. All that she really wanted was my attention!


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

You know, I was thinking, and we did go through something like this when DD was about 18mo, and it was about her going into the street from the front yard. What worked was to make it boring. I would pick her up, say "No street" in the most blase tone possible (with face blank) and repeat over and over in the same exact way so that the whole game was very dull.







She got over it.


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## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

It seems like he is initiating play....honor the impulse and show him ways to play "chase" that are acceptable....

hth
peace,
robyn


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## liam's mom (Jun 18, 2003)

at 15 months, even if the child (or, rather, baby) understands, it's not developmentally appropriate that he would respond to your request. my ds2 is incredible when it comes to receptive language--he understands EVERYTHING--but i have learned that his understanding doesn't mean he will comply--and that's normal.

i agree w/keeping your reaction minimal, since he's probably just enjoying that.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

BTW, I understand that the issue is complicated by the daycare situation. If you only had him to care for, I highly doubt this would be an issue. I know things that were OK when I had just one DC were waaaay harder when 2 (and then 3!) were born.


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

My baby is the same age, and in this situation I would normally confine him - he would sit in the stroller, or I would possibly pull the high chair outside and feed him a snack or lunch while the other kids play. Seems like it is more effective to reinforce cooperative behaviors at this age and simply avoid situations that are too tempting.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I would block the area off somehow. I would not chase him. Thats too much fun for him. Set up a removeable fence somehow. Then he can't go where you don't want him. He is too young to listen. My dd will be 2 on Tuesday and she still doesn't listen if she doesn't want to. So I block off wherever I don't want her to go. I don't play the chase game.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

I think it is awesome that you came here admitting your mistake. Obviously you know spanking is wrong. Have you looked into those temporary fences mentioned?

When they run away it is scary.

How old are the other kids? Can you stay right by ds...carrying him or holding his hand? Put him in a stroller and push him around while the others play? PUt him in the stroller with a snack?

Sometimes I make little notes to myself that say no yelling. Maybe you can make a little note to yourself by your water cup, computer, fridge, or wherever you will see it often.

Even with all the stuff you have out there maybe he is bored if you go out every day. Can you pick up some used outside toys? My 13 month old loves playing ring around the rosy with us. I'm trying to think of some more outside games? What is the weather like there? Too cold for water play? Dumping water? What about getting some paints for outside?

You sound like you have your hands full!


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## NotTheOnlyOne (Oct 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nichole* 
I think it is awesome that you came here admitting your mistake. Obviously you know spanking is wrong. Have you looked into those temporary fences mentioned?

When they run away it is scary.

How old are the other kids? Can you stay right by ds...carrying him or holding his hand? Put him in a stroller and push him around while the others play? PUt him in the stroller with a snack?

Sometimes I make little notes to myself that say no yelling. Maybe you can make a little note to yourself by your water cup, computer, fridge, or wherever you will see it often.

Even with all the stuff you have out there maybe he is bored if you go out every day. Can you pick up some used outside toys? My 13 month old loves playing ring around the rosy with us. I'm trying to think of some more outside games? What is the weather like there? Too cold for water play? Dumping water? What about getting some paints for outside?

You sound like you have your hands full!


Thanks for all the great ideas. I do usually just let them play in the sandbox, ride bikes and stuff, but maybe some more organized games would be good for everyone. Before ds started walking, outside time was my time to sit and relax but I guess I will just have to face the fact that I can't do that anymore. He is probably bored because we go outside every day.... 30 minutes in the am and 30 in the afternoon, longer if it is nice. I rotate toys inside, maybe I can do that for outside too.

I am really glad I posted (even though its hard to admit that I spanked him) because I have gotten a lot of really good ideas.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

http://www.nextag.com/North-States-I...77/prices-html

This is what I use for the toddlers in my daycare. I use it to give them a safe place to play without getting mowed over by the bigger kids.


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

I would get something like this (or a series of them):

http://www.improvementscatalog.com/h...-pet-gate.html

I *think* it would be enough of a barrier (visual at least) to contain a 15-month old, and with having a daycare, it almost seems a necessity to have some type of barrier.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

OP what about something like this http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html...78M&rh=&page=1

Or you could always get a baby carrier and wear him, if you think that he would be happy with that. Until he was old enough to understand to stay near us, ds was in a carrier or stroller whenever we were near areas he couldn't go.


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 







:

He's simply too young for the impulse control you're expecting. It's not fair or developmentally appropriate.

And hitting him is wrong.







: Obviously it's not working. Please stop.

-Angela

Yes, he is a baby and simply cannot control his impulses to the degree you are expecting (smart and verbal or not). Prevention rather than hitting is the key here. Can you erect some sort of fence to keep him safe? Use a portable play-yard to keep him safe while you have other children to supervise?

I do admire you for acknowledging that, while you have hit him, you know it is wrong and want to stop. And that you are brainstorming ways to do this.


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

OP, I know how smart our little ones are and how they seem to know just what is going on, but really, they don't. 15 months is absolutely too small to understand boundaries and to apply any impulse control. Can you imagine being fearful of being spanked, but unable to stop what you are doing. That is really what it is like for a little one that age. Developmentally, you're expectations just aren't appropriate.








And ITA, runners are scary. I have one.


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## earthmama369 (Jul 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liam's mom* 
my ds2 is incredible when it comes to receptive language--he understands EVERYTHING--but i have learned that his understanding doesn't mean he will comply--and that's normal.









That's a really good way to put it. That's where ds is at, too. He understands everything, and anytime we start to forget that, he does something to show that he really is understanding our words. But he has no impetus to comply unless he feels like it. Very whimsical that way.


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## NotTheOnlyOne (Oct 23, 2006)

OP here.

I tried some advice I got here and chased him today when there weren't any other kids to worry about. I can't believe that I didn't _get_ it. That he wanted to be chased and thats why he went to the boundaries, to get me to get up and chase him. I thought (stupidly) that he was just being "rotten." And other people pay me to watch their children!!







: ANyway, he did respond great, he loved it.

I also have to say that I totally agree that hitting, spanking, swatting, tapping are all wrong. I feel totally guilty about hitting him when he just wanted me to play. What a horrible experience for him. I will never hit him again. I am resolving to find more peaceful solutions to our issues AND figure out why he acts the way he does. Like just wanting to be chased is a pretty innocent and sweet thing... and he did a very good job getting me to do it.

I do wear him sometimes when I am cooking, but if we are outside he really wants to be down. He will sit in the wagon if someone is pulling him.... I will check out those other links and see what they are. I have a play yard that I could set up I just dont see him being happy behind the gate when everyone else is outside of it.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

It sounds like you have come so far in such a short time. That is not easy! Change is hard.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtosimon* 
I am resolving to find more peaceful solutions to our issues AND figure out why he acts the way he does.

I think this might help, at least with the not hitting. Tell yourself "I will never touch DC when I am angry/frustrated." Think of what you WILL do. I find it creates an automatic physical boundary that way.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtosimon* 
I am resolving to find more peaceful solutions to our issues AND figure out why he acts the way he does. Like just wanting to be chased is a pretty innocent and sweet thing... and he did a very good job getting me to do it.

Don't be too hard on yourself, mama. Being a mother and a daycare provider, shoot just being a mom, it's HARD. They don't come with instructions!

But you have gotten some great support, advice, ideas and suggestions here and I LOVE hearing (reading) that you had a great game of chase!


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:

Ds is very verbal and smart. He understands the boundaries.
Like others have said verbal and smart doesn't change the fact hes 15 months and will act 15 months. I too live in apartments and boy do I get the challange of no fences and admit sadly my temper and emotions have gotten the best of me before. Don't beat your self up over this reaction.. However at his age and really for many years still it will be 'your" responsibility to keep him safe and at 15 months that means keeping him in arms reeach and bringing him back to safety 45 thousand times.







: "Spanking' might "work" for a bit but soon enough his age and lack of impulse controll will prevail so you must keep him safe.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

OP, I think you really need to get some sort of sturdy boundary - for all the kids' safety. Even though they all seem to listen well and understand, I would be concerned about being distracted for a second and someone being off and running. Also, I already know that you know what you did was wrong and I applaud you for being here looking for other options. I feel like I need to point out, though, that if my kids were in your daycare and I found out that you smacked your child in front of them, I would probably find a new daycare. Maybe that's something to think abotu if the frustration level hits again.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtosimon* 
OP here.

I tried some advice I got here and chased him today when there weren't any other kids to worry about. I can't believe that I didn't _get_ it. That he wanted to be chased and thats why he went to the boundaries, to get me to get up and chase him. I thought (stupidly) that he was just being "rotten." And other people pay me to watch their children!!







: ANyway, he did respond great, he loved it.

I also have to say that I totally agree that hitting, spanking, swatting, tapping are all wrong. I feel totally guilty about hitting him when he just wanted me to play. What a horrible experience for him. I will never hit him again. I am resolving to find more peaceful solutions to our issues AND figure out why he acts the way he does. Like just wanting to be chased is a pretty innocent and sweet thing... and he did a very good job getting me to do it.

I do wear him sometimes when I am cooking, but if we are outside he really wants to be down. He will sit in the wagon if someone is pulling him.... I will check out those other links and see what they are. I have a play yard that I could set up I just dont see him being happy behind the gate when everyone else is outside of it.

Cool!


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## i*wish (May 4, 2004)

momtosimon: congratulations on your progress. i'm very new here so i hardly feel qualified to reply except to say 'yay for you!'


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## Genesis (Jan 8, 2007)

OP: I am glad things are getting better for you.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

op- WooHoo! I'm glad things are going easier now! When I read that you liked to use that time to relax, my first thought was "hehehe not anymore." Sorry!

To the other pp, I'm reminded of this quote I found recently

"When a child hits a child, we call it aggression.
When a child hits an adult, we call it hostility.
When an adult hits an adult, we call it assault.
When an adult hits a child, we call it discipline." - Haim Ginott


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## blsilva (Jul 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deva33mommy* 
"When a child hits a child, we call it aggression.
When a child hits an adult, we call it hostility.
When an adult hits an adult, we call it assault.
When an adult hits a child, we call it discipline." - Haim Ginott

Great quote!


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## theretohere (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Deva33mommy* 
op- WooHoo! I'm glad things are going easier now! When I read that you liked to use that time to relax, my first thought was "hehehe not anymore." Sorry!

To the other pp, I'm reminded of this quote I found recently

"When a child hits a child, we call it aggression.
When a child hits an adult, we call it hostility.
When an adult hits an adult, we call it assault.
When an adult hits a child, we call it discipline." - Haim Ginott

I love that quote!


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Hello, I removed some posts from this thread that were defending spanking. I also removed those that quoted the removed posts.

Since so many posted and quoted it would be quite a project to pm everyone to see if they would like to edit. If people would like their posts back please pm me and I can send it to you for editing.

Thanks
Jessica


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## Enudely (Jul 2, 2005)

get a fence


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## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Enudely* 
get a fence

She stated earlier that the property is not her own and is a apartment complex or something similar.


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## Enudely (Jul 2, 2005)

Oh, sorry, I didn't read the whole thread (obviously)







:


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

We used snow drift fencing on a couple posts to create a temporary barrier across our driveway for our kids. It's that flexible roll stuff they use in construction zones, too. You could put some stakes in the yard and tie the fencing to the stakes, it's totally removeable, and you can roll it up with the stakes and bring out next time (or leave it up...) - it was just what we needed- enough of a physical/visual barrier to keep them in the yard, but not something totally permanent. It won't stand up to them beating on it or leaning on it, but it's enough to give you time to get to them and redirect, which was exactly what I needed when really pregnant and DS was a runner! Ds doesn't need it now, but DD is another runner/wanderer and I like giving her the freedom to roam a bit without having to be on top of her if she goes towards the driveway.

Sounds like you're getting in the right frame of mind too, which is great.

Love the quote, Becky, I'm going to save that for future use.


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## NotTheOnlyOne (Oct 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
We used snow drift fencing on a couple posts to create a temporary barrier across our driveway for our kids. It's that flexible roll stuff they use in construction zones, too. You could put some stakes in the yard and tie the fencing to the stakes, it's totally removeable, and you can roll it up with the stakes and bring out next time (or leave it up...) - it was just what we needed- enough of a physical/visual barrier to keep them in the yard, but not something totally permanent. It won't stand up to them beating on it or leaning on it, but it's enough to give you time to get to them and redirect, which was exactly what I needed when really pregnant and DS was a runner! Ds doesn't need it now, but DD is another runner/wanderer and I like giving her the freedom to roam a bit without having to be on top of her if she goes towards the driveway.

Sounds like you're getting in the right frame of mind too, which is great.

Love the quote, Becky, I'm going to save that for future use.

This is a great idea. ANother one I never though of before. I could totally do this.


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