# tofu ..bad for you?



## sanna (Feb 22, 2002)

Has anyone else been hearing negative things about tofu? I have been vegetarian for 12 years, and tofu has been a big part of my families diet (our son is vegan). But lately, I have been hearing all sorts of negative press. I even printed out a long article on the negative effects of tofu given by a panel of doctors from the web. Some of the things mentioned were; that it inhibits the assimilation of certain minerals, that it even stunts growth in children, about the estrogen connection(to much). etc...

It was enough to get me questioning. So now, we eat it 1x a week and are doing more beans.


----------



## Sofiamomma (Jan 4, 2002)

I, too, have read some negative articles about soy. I don't know how much stock to put in them, but they did worry me, because we do quite a bit of soy, too. The stuff I read said pretty much the same as what you mention. I don't have anything to add to your post, but am interested in what others have to say.


----------



## valeria_vi (Nov 19, 2001)

sanna,
could you post a link to that atricle?

A couple of articles i know of are:

http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/index24.html
http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/index.htm


----------



## Elphaba (Nov 19, 2001)

excuse me, apparently i irritated the owners of this thread. i'll just be going now.


----------



## valeria_vi (Nov 19, 2001)

shoshannas mom,
the links I have posted above have absolutely NOTHING to do with dairy counsil.


----------



## AmyG (Jan 30, 2002)

Like almost everything, I think soy is okay in moderation. I try not to take in too much since I'm trying to conceive and don't need any extra estrogen, but if that weren't the case, I would just make sure I didn't eat it all the time. I would imagine one time a week would be perfectly fine. A little more frequently would probably be okay.

There may be some bad effects, but there are tons of good ones. I just try to eat a little bit of everything so that the bad effects are less of a problem.


----------



## sanna (Feb 22, 2002)

valeria, I will look up that link.

As far as I remember it, it also had nothing to do with the dairy council. What I discovered, is that tofu eaten the way we eat it now is a relatively new thing. Before in Asia, tofu was eaten fermented (miso, tamari and Tempe). Tofu was eaten as it is now in very very small quantities (such as in soup). The question as to whether it is actually healthy for the body in large quantities is a new thing to explore.


----------



## valeria_vi (Nov 19, 2001)

yep,
this is in essence what I have been reading about, and, sincerely speaking, it makes sense TO ME.


----------



## Alexander (Nov 22, 2001)

I remember a study conducted in Hawai'i a few years ago. It concluded there was a definate link between tofu and , er , and er, (the word for old people losing their memory). !!!

It sure would explain the senility of the Japanese old people!

a


----------



## earthmomma (Nov 22, 2001)

Well-known author and activist John Robbins reply to the anti-soy articles mentioned above:

http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm

In this article, he tackles the "anti-soy article written by Sally Fallon and Mary G. Enig, titled "Tragedy and Hype," that has been widely circulated. This article presents a systematic series of accusations against soy consumption, and has formed the basis for many similar articles. Large numbers of people, as a result, are now seriously questioning the safety of soy."
The Fallon and Enig article is what was posted on Mercola's website above...

Check out John Robbin's website too, he's well-researched and high-integrity, IMO.

Hope this helps....As a vegetarian/mostly vegan for 17 years, I have eaten plenty of soy! I eat it occasionally, mainly as an additive, instead of everyday.... and I eat plenty of other types of foods for variety and nutrition.


----------



## Sofiamomma (Jan 4, 2002)

Earthmomma,

Thanks for that link! I haven't had time to read it all, but I e-mailed it to myself. Everything in moderation, I always say!


----------



## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

there's an article about soy and these concerns in this month's (march, i guess) health magazine. i think they have a website -- maybe http://www.healthmag.com/. they had a nice chart in there with the different levels of isoflavones in different soy products that might be helpful to you. the conclusion they reached was basically, all things in moderation. HTH.

edited to say: drat! that article's not online. you might check it out next time you stand in line at the grocery store or wherever, though.


----------



## namama (Nov 21, 2001)

a friend just alerted me of the soy situation and shared this website. said it had all sorts of information about soy, etc. what made me look twice was the info about the effects on children.

But I want to see if anyone has heard of them...

www.westonaprice.org

there is interesting info but some of it is way off the path we're on.

it just seems that everything in moderation must be key.


----------



## elainie (Jan 5, 2002)

I have been a member of this org. for over 7 years now. I find a lot of what they say to ring true. I know Sally personally and she has raised 4 beautiful healthy ( I should say SUPER HEALTHY children) which is something she is rrvery proud of and should be. Mary Enig is also the best lipid researcher out there and I just hope that all of us (myself included)educate the public about the dangers of canola oil, modern soyfoods used in excess, lack of fat soluble vitamins etc.. etc.. The goal is healthy well nourished children who don't rely on vitamin supplements, have healthy bones and teeth, and have excellent immune systems.


----------



## valeria_vi (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by elainie_
*I have been a member of this org. for over 7 years now. I find a lot of what they say to ring true. I know Sally personally and she has raised 4 beautiful healthy ( I should say SUPER HEALTHY children) which is something she is rrvery proud of and should be. Mary Enig is also the best lipid researcher out there and I just hope that all of us (myself included)educate the public about the dangers of canola oil, modern soyfoods used in excess, lack of fat soluble vitamins etc.. etc.. The goal is healthy well nourished children who don't rely on vitamin supplements, have healthy bones and teeth, and have excellent immune systems.*
elaine,
you have been a member of WHAT org.?


----------



## elainie (Jan 5, 2002)

Sorry, the mentioned link- The Weston A. Price Foundation, I used to be a member of The Price Pottenger Foundation based in Ca. and then there was a shifting of some of the core founders who founded The Weston A. Price Foundation based in Washington D.C.
Some board members include Susan Weed, William Campbell Douglas,
Ron Schmid ND,as well as other well known authors in the field of natural health.


----------



## sanna (Feb 22, 2002)

namama,
Interesting link. The soy information is pretty much what I was refering to. We have been limiting soy to once a week now.

Jeez.. Just when you think you are doing something right and healthy for one's family. Ie; not eating meat..


----------



## Mama Lori (Mar 11, 2002)

From a Chinese medicine and Ayurvedic perspective tofu is a very cold food and although it has protein it cannot substitute for the warmth and nourishment that meat can provide. That said from a vegetarian-except-fish, who tries and tries to eat meat but can't (excpet I'm starting to handle chicken broth). Also the estrogen content is of concern particularly for children. A Chinese medine doctor/herbalist I took my ds to recently said soy products are good for women to have a few times a week, but anyone else should have none or very little. Tempeh is better than tofu in terms of not being as cold.


----------



## robbiemama (Mar 7, 2002)

just my opinion--
too many foods to worry about so soy is not top of my list
i'm asian and i grew up eating soy EVERY DAY (as do most asians here and in asia) in some form (fermented and not) as did everybody in my family, etc.
i'm not worried
also, asked my pediatrician re: estrogen & soy & boys--she said no worries here as well
p.s.--not sure about the comment about senile japanese old people...


----------



## member (Apr 15, 2002)

What is with the senile Japanese comment? Was it suppose to be funny? I wasn't; it was racist and offensive.


----------



## amy mama (Apr 17, 2002)

The bad soy news I've heard says it's bad for young girls to eat too much b/c of the estrogen content, and may be a reason why so many girls are entering physical maturity so much earlier than just 10-15 years ago, as soy is in so many products now. Also, that it is very hard to find soy now that hasn't, at some point, been cross-contaminated with gentically altered soy beans. So no more soy smoothies for dd.


----------



## I Believe in Fairies (Apr 17, 2002)

I'm allergic to soy in just about any form. If you think about it from a whole food point of view, it's extremely processed. I'm sure the beans are great, but all the "milk" and little pressed squares get to me as odd.

It's also one of the most allergic foods out there. I believe mik and wheat are the only ones ahead of it.


----------



## barbara (Feb 13, 2002)

Quote:

p.s.--not sure about the comment about senile japanese old people...
I'm pretty sure Alexander was joking....senile and older asians doesn't really go hand in hand....so the idea that soy consumption is a main contributor to senility, is pretty absurd....


----------



## laurag (Feb 22, 2002)

My ped diagnosed my dd with an allergy to milk protien about 5 mos ago. DD is bfed, so she recommended I go off all dairy and products containing whey and casien (forms of milk protein). I have been eating soy in one form or another (soymilk, soy yogurt, ice cream, whatever) since then every day. After reading this board I am worried I may be inadvertently doing harm to dd by eating so much soy? Also, dd just started on solids and she seems to like tofu very much. Is this a double whammy?!


----------



## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
p.s.--not sure about the comment about senile japanese old people...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm pretty sure Alexander was joking....senile and older asians doesn't really go hand in hand....so the idea that soy consumption is a main contributor to senility, is pretty absurd....
Ick, really not funny and actually fairly racist.

Does anyone else have a hard time knowing what to believe? I tend to be very skeptical regarding all information that might in some way aid the GIANT meat and dairy industry. It seems like anti-soy propaganda would be a logical step for those industries.

Amy


----------



## namama (Nov 21, 2001)

i think the thing everyone needs to remember is that we all have to make our own educated decisions... there are two sides to EVERYTHING! just educated youself the best you can and well, wait and hope...


----------



## barbara (Feb 13, 2002)

Excuse me?
How is it racist to say that it is uncommon to find senility among Asians who have had a pretty steady diet of soy all their lives??? This is a thread about the supposed dangers of eating too much soy. Therefore the observations of those that have eaten large quanties of soy all their lives would be relavant to the discussion. There is nothing racist about making dietary observations. Personally I would like to see some satistics on aging in people (of various ethnic backrounds) that have had a steady diet of soy throughout their lives. I would also like to see some sats. on those that have had meat and dairy products as a steady diet throughout their lives. I don't think the verdict is out yet on Soy!


----------



## robbiemama (Mar 7, 2002)

1st of all, sanna, sorry to derail this thread

1. alexander references a study that definitely links memory loss & soy, then makes a comment about senility in older japanese people--i didn't take that as alexander being sarcastic

2. "This is a thread about the supposed dangers of eating too much soy." so what place does a flippant comment about older japanese people have in this thread at all?

3."Therefore the observations of those that have eaten large quanties of soy all their lives would be relavant to the discussion. There is nothing racist about making dietary observations" is Alexander an older japanese person? if not, i'm not sure i understand your point here...also, it's not racist to make dietary observations but it is racist if you're making uninformed or derogatory comments about other people (and calling older japanese people senile is not a dietary observation)

4. are you asian? japanese? if so, we can have a discussion about whether this was an offensive comment or not

5. please don't tell anyone to lighten up--it's rude

yes, even i can see that i am probably being somewhat critical of alexander who probably deserves the benefit of the doubt...but, unless you're asian here, i don't think you know how it feels to be on the receiving end of a very short, flippant comment


----------



## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Thank you robbiemama.

Back to soy... Now I find myself worrying about my ds's soy consumption. I know one person who does no soy all because of her "research" on the internet. My son is dairy free, could all this soymilk be too much estrogen?

Yikes.


----------



## barbara (Feb 13, 2002)

So sorry robbiemama, I stand corrected









Back to soy.... I am interested to know if there are significant differences in fermented soy and non-fermented soy. Is soy cheese fermented?
For now we are cutting back on soy. Moderation is always good








We have found rice milk to be a good subsitute for use on cereal.


----------



## laurag (Feb 22, 2002)

I found this website that has alot of info on soy: http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/
I have decided to cut back on my soy intake - switching to rice milk instead of soy milk. And I am cutting tofu out of dds diet, but I will probably continue to give her some soy yogurt. Because of dds dairy allergy, I don't see how we would be able to completly cut soy out of our diets. Does anyone have any tips for other dairy substitutes that are not soy based?


----------



## naturalmama (Dec 5, 2001)

I have read and heard many times that the whole soy being bad for you was started by the dairy industry. As far as girls going through puberty early, that is from cows milk consumption. The growth hormones in milk have sky rocketed and so has our dairy consumtion in America. THAT is why girls are going through puberty so early, NOT because of soy products.


----------



## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Right Naturalmama, that's kind of what I meant when I wondered what is real and what is propaganda.

It really is hard to know what to believe. With the internet and so much knowledge close at hand it is very easy to mistake someone's personal site and opinions as scientific fact.


----------



## amy mama (Apr 17, 2002)

I'm not entirely convinced about it being dairy-industry propaganda (though that certainly wouldn't surprise me) b/c all the info I've gotten about it has been in really alternative, "green" literature.


----------



## elainie (Jan 5, 2002)

I'm not convinced either. Experience (I'm TCM and holistic health practitioner)
has led me to believe otherwise. I've seen girls who have never eaten meat, or dairy (but lots of soy) enter puberty at VERY young ages. My own stepdaughter was one such girl who got her period at age 9.
Aniaml foods which are raised with growth hormones and all the other junk play a role too. Chicken was the number one food linked to early puberty -
remember too that most animal foods that are not pastured (even organic does not mean pasture fed) are consuming a diet based on soy.
I believe that in combination with all the other growth hormones plays a large role too.
If you eat any aniaml products including milk products, eggs, chicken beef, make sure the animals are eating what they're supposed to be eating instead of soyfeed.
Seek out local farmers who don't use soy. There is a growing movement
to get back to grass fed animals. Of course chickens should eat bugs, worms etc.. instead of soy.
If you do use soy eat it in moderation and eat fermented soy foods.
I still use soy in the form of miso, and shoyu. I don't feel well if I eat tofu or tempeh anymore. It bloats me and makes me feel tired.


----------



## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

So elanie, would you not give soymilk to your children? I hate thinking that something I have been giving my son for over a year might be bad for him


----------



## elainie (Jan 5, 2002)

I've never given soymilk to my children even before I knew of soys estrogenic compounds. The reason being that in TCM soymilk is a very cold natured food, one that is difficult to digest and could lead to deep coldness and deficiency in the body. Most women I see that complain of vaginal itching are linked to drinking soymilk as well. When the soymilk stops, so does their itching.
In rural Japan some of my friends are from, I'm told tofu is not eaten more than once a week, because they say it leads to bad digestion.
Don't forget that tofu is the diet of Sumo wrestlers as well, it causes them to bloat. More evidence of the antithyroid connection.
As an alternative to soymilk or any boxed milk out there, fresh made almond milk is a delicious drink. I've made it for many years and never tire of it's wonderful freash taste that a boxed milk lacks. It's enzymatically active as well, since it's raw.


----------



## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Thank you, I think we will switch over to almond milk. We tried it a while ago and he didn't care for it but I suppose he will get used to it.

Amy


----------



## namama (Nov 21, 2001)

*I've made it for many years and never tire of it's wonderful freash taste that a boxed milk lacks.*
elanie-- do you have a recipe to share?


----------



## elainie (Jan 5, 2002)

sure,
soak 2 cups almonds in water to cover- use filtered water for 12-24 hours. I change the soaking water several times (at least once or twice depending on how long I soak them).
Place the almonds in a blender (use 1 cup of nuts at a time) along with 3 cups water and a couple of soft pitted dates if desired. If the dates are hard soak them as well.
Blend until real smooth. I use something called a nutmilk bag to extract the milk from the pulp . Repeat with the remaining 1 cup nuts and 3 cups water. Add a tiny pinch of sea salt and some vanilla extract or use a small piece of vanilla bean when pureeing the mixture.I store my milk in a big glass 1 gallon jar with a lid.You can make all different kinds of milk using cashews, sesame seeds etc..
Here's a link to purchase a nutmilk bag.
http://www.rawfoodchef.com/html/store.html


----------



## namama (Nov 21, 2001)

thanks elanie!

two questions. do you use the almonds, skins and all? and how long can you store it in the refrigerator?

ok more than 2 questions...

how does it freeze? and what kind of blender do you use? do you need a heavy duty one?

thanks!


----------



## elainie (Jan 5, 2002)

I do use whole almonds with skins, hence my changing the soaking water
several times (the water will discolor due to natural tannins in the skin).

I also use a Waring blender. It's pretty heavy duty. It makes the almonds blend up into a real creamy mass, other blenders lack the power. A Vitamix would be even better, I'm sure.


----------



## namama (Nov 21, 2001)

elainie

thanks, can't wait to try it!

amy


----------



## laurag (Feb 22, 2002)

I have recently switched to rice milk instead of soy and I like the light, sweet taste very much. I have not tried almond milk yet, but I am going to give that a shot as well. Does anyone know if there is a brand of yogurt made with rice or almond milk? I have found plenty of soy yogurt but would like to try some others if they available.


----------



## elainie (Jan 5, 2002)

There is a rice yogurt, but it's full of ingredients I stay away from. I make my own almond milk yogurt.


----------



## Breathe (May 18, 2002)

Hi All,

I know this thread is pretty old, but I just found it after my ds (14 mos) had an eczema outbreak after eating tofu for the first time. I'm incredibly frustrated bc my naturpoath has been pushing me to test soy on him, and now I read from you all that soy is difficult to digest. He is also allergic to wheat, corn, bananas, and peanuts, and seems to have eczema from gluten, dairy, and citrus. (Rice milk has gluten, and commercial almond milk has soy, so I am definitely going to try making almond milk.) I feel certain he has a "leaky gut," so I feel SO stupid for giving something that his little gut couldn't handle. ARGH! This isn't supposed to happen with exclusively breastfed babies!









In any case, elainie, I'm going to PM you for some more info, and wanted to be sure you saw this and checked your messages.


----------



## apri4 (Apr 8, 2004)

I grew up eating tofu and tempeh, when I went away for college, I started eating meat and processed food, those what make me blooming.
I think tofu is a great food !


----------



## wildmonkeys (Oct 4, 2004)

This is all very upsetting to me....

My ds is deathly allergic to milk and eggs (when he was about 10 months old my friends 2 year old spilled some cows milk on his hand and he blistered where it had made contact with his skin) Another toddler once fed him a cheese goldfish cracker and his eyes swelled shut....

He self-weaned himself at about 14 months and his eczema and other allergy symptoms have actually improved as I guess I wasn't doing as great a job as I thought at eliminating EVERYTHING from my diet







: Aside from veggies, beans, and meat (which we have actually started eating again because I feel so short on options) SOY is the only thing he does well with...He drinks soy milk and I use it to prepare pancakes, muffins, and oatmeal for him so the idea that there are now problems with soy has actually almost brought me to tears

Breathe - I know it is so frustrating to have your child experience all these food related problems that we thought bfing would protect them from (after everything we have heard about it - it feels like a rip-off to learn that bfing isn't a guarantee) Not to mention that nailing down food allergies is so difficult in preverbal kids. Anyway, if you ever want to chat feel free to email me and we can chat and share recipes.

Thanks for the information ladies,
BJ
Barney & Ben


----------

