# I can't fix this and I need help



## mommynoname (Sep 12, 2004)

I am a mama who posts here regularly.

It breaks my heart every day to see the relationship that my husband and I have with our 5 year old son. It's beyond adversarial. I have zero tolerance for him and I can't stand him. I don't want to hear him talk. I don't want to see him. Sometimes it seems like if he would only disappear, everything would be fine. I catch myself thinking that he's rotten to the core and my baby girl is perfect, and I know this isn't normal. I feel like I screwed up so bad with him there's no way of fixing it and I fantasize being able to just give him away and never have to deal with him again. I say awful things to gim, I'm too ashamed to say them here, but the worst is the only reason I really care about how I treat him is because it's bad for my baby gilr to see someone else mistreated.

I don't know what to do. We tried and tried GD but I don't have the patience, or something. I even know better, what behaviors of his are normal for 5 year olds, what things to say are not helpful or make things worse, but I can't keep it together anymore even when I know better.

My mother was very emotionally abusive to me and I hear myself saying the same things she said to me and worse. Sometimes I think I have some hereditary flaw from here that I'll never be able to be a decent mother. I think I'm going to destroy him with my behavior, and I think when my baby gets older I won't be able to stand her either, which horrifies me.

Please don't flame me. I know what I describe is inexcusible. But I try to describe it as openly and clearly as possible because I need so much help. I don't know what to do, but I don't want things to be hideous like this.


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## matts_mamamama (Mar 19, 2004)

Counseling - for you, for your husband, and for your son. You need to talk to someone and if your son's behavior is that horrible, he needs to see someone too. There are therapists who work specifically with young children. Do yourself and your family a favor and call. Don't wait any longer.







2


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## mommynoname (Sep 12, 2004)

but who do I call? We have no insurance, we have no money. And I'm afraid if someone finds out how awful I'm being, although I do not hit, they will take away my kids even though i'm trying to get help!


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## kerc (May 9, 2002)

do you have a religious person (pastor? rabbi? priest? whatever) in your life? they can help tremendously.

can you confide in your ped or family doc?

how about asking for help at a place like a WIC office?

I think asking for help is such a big step. It can be tough to be a parent who comes from an abusive background. Like somehow all those things our parents said to us are just programmed right in there and although you mean to say X you say Y.


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## matts_mamamama (Mar 19, 2004)

Oh boy...um, I'm a little more out of my league now. I went through family counseling as a kid, so my mom did all of that part, so give me a sec...

Ok, how about a Church? Or calling a local woman's shelter and seeing if they can help? I'm sure you don't want to say where you live, but a quick google search for free family counseling brought up a lot of places - perhaps if you search with your state in the search you can find something local. Maybe even find a local family counseling center and see if they would be willing to help you out, either with a payment plan or some other assistance.

Maybe someone else can add some more here... please don't give up, you realizing that you need help is the first step.







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## ryssann (Jun 25, 2004)

You might be able to obtain a counselor thru his school (if he is in kindergarten). You can call and talk to the guidance counselor, and the schools here have therapists assigned to the school and the guidance counselor can arrange it.

It's extremely hard not to revert to what your parents did. I have said and done things that sounded just like my mother that I am not proud of. 5 is a tough age. I'm going through it right now the second time.


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## jadegirl553 (Mar 28, 2004)

I second the suggestion to contact a church. If you don't want the religous message, just be upfront with that. A pastor who will be ok with that is probably the best one to talk to and to get help from.

I'm sorry that this is happening to you. I hear my father's words and tone comming out of my mouth sometimes, too, and it is horrible. It's hard to overcome. But I know it can be done, because I've seen it happen.


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## beth568 (Jul 1, 2004)

First of all, hugs.

Where do you live? Many states have no or low-cost services for parents, including a parental stress hotline. Might be the place to start. I also agree that your ds's school, if he's in kindergarten, should have some resources.

I think the fact that you recognize the problem is a HUGE part of the battle, and means that there's a lot of hope for your family.

If you just do a Google search for something like "state parent resources," you'll get a ton of hits that may give you some starting points. I hope you can find the help you need!


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

Call around to every therapist in your phonebook. Literally. Explain the intensity of the situation. Then ask if they - or anyone they know - do sliding scale fees. Ask if there are any pro bono counseling programs in your state. Contact your ER. It sounds like if you can get your own emotions under control - via counseling, medications, or both - things will certainly begin to change. Kids aren't dumb. It sounds like he's feeding off of your emotions.

You need to call everyone in your state. NOW. I don't mean to shout, but this could get dangerous. Verbal abuse isn't pleasant, and if you cannot control the things that come out of your mouth, I fear that you may snap one time and hurt your son. It's simply not worth the risk.

I found myself saying the same things about my dd recently (not TO her, just thinking it to myself). Once I made a very strong and direct effort to re-connect with her, things started turning around instantaneously. It sounds like you're a lot like me - you do not know how to stay present and, subconsciously, you expect instant gratification from your son. You may expect instant gratification in all areas of your life, but your son is the easiest and most helpless person to take it out on.

I don't know you, of course, or your situation; I'm simply speaking from my own experience.







s to you; please start making those phone calls immediately. Waiting is not worth the risk!


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

There are programs to help parents in your situation. I don't know where you live so I'm not sure what to recommend. I knew someone who worked for one in my area and it sounded pretty cool. I have a couple of links that might be in the right direction:

http://www.parentsanonymous.org/pahtml/parBene.html

http://www.circleofparents.org/about_us/index.html

http://www.mctf.org/sp.cfm?id=275

These are all groups that do workshops that are free or cheap and provide parents with support.

Another idea is to connect with your local Attachment Parenting International group. I have not worked with these folks myself, I only know about these groups because of MDC.

The idea is to find a group of like-minded parents, preferrably one in which there is a counselor, to support you IRL.


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## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

You said in your original post that you wished you could get rid of him. But you are afraid to get help because you are afraid someone will take him away from you. I tend to think the second statement is more true, and that you do have love for him somewhere inside you, or you would not care if he was placed in foster care.


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

You say you have a baby girl, and I'm wondering if your relationship with your son was this bad before she was born, or if it's mostly gotten bad since she came along. If you didn't feel this way about him before the baby, I wonder if hormonal changes or PPD are causing a lot of your feelings. After my baby was born, I suddenly started to feel a lot of rage toward my beloved dog, over the smallest things, and for most of the baby's first year, I found myself thinking at least once a day that I hated my DP and wished he were dead. (Meanwhile, I felt nothing but love for the baby.) Now that dd is older, I'm much more like my old self and don't have such extreme feelings.

Family counseling sounds like a good idea, but you might also want to think about talking to a doctor about possible medical causes (like PPD) for your emotional state. Of course, I realize that might not be so easy if you don't have insurance, and if a doctor wanted to prescribe meds for you, you might not be able to afford them. Some states (like Washington, where I used to live) have very low-cost health insurance available to low-income people. You might check into that possibility in your state, if you haven't already.


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## Daffodil (Aug 30, 2003)

I just had a thought about a way to afford family counseling, or counseling for your son specifically. (Even though it sounds like you might be more in need of counseling than your son, it might be easier to get free services for him, and hopefully those services will be able to help the whole family.) If you're in the U.S., every state has a program to provide free or low-cost health insurance for kids. There's a good chance your kids would be eligible for coverage under your state's program. Maybe you've even got them signed up already. If not, check out this link:

http://www.insurekidsnow.gov/

In my state at least, mental health services are covered. So you could probably arrange for your son to see a counselor, and I imagine that if the counselor felt counseling for the whole family would be the best solution, that would probably be covered as well, or the counselor would be familiar with free family counseling programs.


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## mommynoname (Sep 12, 2004)

Thank you.

I'm afraid they would take away my baby. I honestly don't think I would mind so much if they took him away. I know that's horrible. I really think I'm going crazy.

Things have gotten worse since the baby came but when I was pregnant I was very near to my wits end already. He almost burned the house down a couple of times.

I will look into the links you all gave. Hubby and I searched on our own but didn't have much success.


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## CarrieMF (Mar 7, 2004)

If your son almost burned the house down twice then imo he needs separate counselling along with the family counselling. If his behaviour started when you got pregnant it could be he is jealous of the baby and felt he wouldn't get the same level of attention he had before. How does your dh feel about him?


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## KellyB (Jun 15, 2006)

Mommynoname,
Sounds like something like Parents Anonymous might be your best bet...you need help with this. I can hear your desperation.
Do you really think you do anything CPS would consider reason to remove your son?
Their standard for "abuse" is pretty high...a child pretty much has to be bloody and bruised before they'll step in. Also, voluntarily enrolling yourself in something like PA would be a good reason for them to give you time....
You were abused as a kid, and it sounds like your horomones are taking you hostage...did this really start getting bad while you were pregnant?
Or was it really bad before?
Good luck....


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## mommynoname (Sep 12, 2004)

I have had depression off and on since my teens. I had very bad depression when my son was a baby. I know this might be post partum depression but I feel like there's nobody that will help me (although I will look into Parents Anonymous. I already tried to find a group near me but that part of the site is down).

My husband wants to help and have everything be okay again. He has less of the stress on him but also less knowledge about 5-year-olds, while I know a lot about 5-year-olds but have so much stress I can't use it, does that make sense? So he is trying to help from the angle of making our son behave better, which isn't working, because I know an adversarial relationship comes from both sides. I just don't know how to start fixing it when I have no more to give and don't want to give to my son anymore anyway.

Editing to say that he didn't try TO burn down the house, but he developed a fascination with fire and he would get up in the middle of the night and light things like candles, pieces of paper, try to burn things in the fireplace. Of course he can't do this now as we are very very careful about matches or anything, but just today he was at a neighbor's house trying to steal matches, for his dad he told her.


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## grisandole (Jan 11, 2002)

Also try Catholic Social Services, they offer counseling for families in crisis.......do a web search for them

Good luck,
Kristi


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## KellyB (Jun 15, 2006)

Hey, mommynoname...I wrote out a long reply earlier, but the whole forum crashed or something (anyone know what happened with that????).
Have you checked out captain optimism's other links? I think you really need help with this...medication, maybe if that's a possibility...it sounds to me like you've got some sort of inclination towards depression, and you've got a bad case of ppdepression as well.
You seem basically like a logical person, so I'm guessing there's something chemical, coupled with some unresolved issues, that's causing all this.
About the fire thing...have you already had the talks with your DS about the dangers of fire? I'd assume you have, but with your personal being in such a state of upheaval, I thought I'd check....
Till you get a proper support group...why don't you post here when you feel the urge...let us help you in the meantime....really, though, you need to find a real counselor or something....my heart goes out to you, though...
PM me anytime....even just to vent.
Love...
-kelly


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

In many places, the phone book has blue pages with a "guide to human services". Look in there under headings like Children's Services, Counseling, and Family Services. If you don't have that, try your local United Way; they'll probably be able to recommend a program that can help you at low or no cost.








2 Good luck! Admitting that you need help is a very important step.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

I am not saying this to be harsh but I was raised with verbal and emotional abuse, not as bad as what you've described, and it has damaged me to the core. If you really have no love left for your son and you don't want to give anything to him and you don't want to change then I think you should consider giving him up. I am not trying to be mean but he deserves better than what he's getting. Much better.


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## MsMoMpls (Oct 22, 2002)

How brave of you to post. This had to be really hard. I know you want to be a good mom or you wouldn't admit your faults. Here's another option. Call Child Protection and tell them your story- just as honestly as you told it here. You can do it without identifying yourself. They don't want to take your kids, they want to help you to protect them. What state are you in? I might have a couple more ideas. Hang in there. Find his baby pictures, watch him when he sleeps, find that baby boy that you love so deeply. Figure out what his behavior means in your heart that makes you so angry. There is really only one solution- that is love him, love him, love him and then a bit more. We are all here for you...keep talking.







2


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Heavenly, I don't think this mama would be posting this stuff here if she didn't want to change. She seems to be at her breaking point and doesn't know _how_ to change, and that's why she's reaching out. And she did ask for "no flames."

Mommynoname, I don't have any more suggestions on how to find counseling. I think an Internet search for free family counseling might get you some local hits. I just want you to know that I have felt the way you feel. It's never been long-lasting, though. My 12yo has ADHD and mood problems which appear to be bi-polar disorder, and he has made our family life hell at times. There have been times when I have wanted someone to come and remove him from our home, just so the rest of us could be happy. There have been times that I've wished he would just disappear. And then the horrible guilt that results from daring to have those thoughts/feelings.

My son has finally been properly diagnosed and is getting good treatment, and so he only occasionally has bad spells now and then, as opposed to his whole life being a bad spell with occasional peaceful moments. But I remember too well the days when he was smaller and we were at our wits' ends.








2 to you.


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## Piglet68 (Apr 5, 2002)

I agree with those who suggest clinical depression. I assume it isn't too much $$ for you to visit your doctor? If you don't have insurance, can you go to a free clinic? I honestly think you should consider some meds.


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## KellyB (Jun 15, 2006)

Yup.
I'm usually not real big on psychoreactive meds, but desperate times call for desperate measures. And these are most certainly desperate times for you.
I can tell you really love your son deep down inside....not once have you blamed him for this situation, which is something I'm guessing is different from the way you were raised. You're aware of the fact that this is all something in you, somehow...
And it's not about blame. Something went way wrong in your childhood, and something's way wrong with your internal chemistry right now, as well.
But I think there's real hope for this awful family cycle to end now.
How good is your relationship with your husband? If it's fairly strong, maybe he can help you search for the right support?
Or maybe you could get him to come here, and we could work with him to find the right place for your family to get support as a unit...ONLY if he's a good man, and trustable, and loving. I mention this only because it's obvious you're totally tapped out...exhausted...


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## Leatherette (Mar 4, 2003)

Does your son have a favorite family member who is good with him? Maybe he could visit this person for a little while and you and your husband could regroup and make a plan, and have some relatively quiet time to make some of these phone calls. Not a solution, but a step.

L.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

I am not trying to flame or be rude. I am just going by what she said. She asked for help but then said that she didn't care if they took him away and that she didn't want to change for him anyways. How else am I supposed to take that? I've had hard times in my parenting career but one thing has always been certain - even when I was messing up I loved my son more than life itself. I DO know what its like to have depression, I have bipolar and I had really bad ppd after Olivia. But there was never a time that I wished someone would take my child away. That really concerns me. Maybe it would be best if the child stayed with someone else for awhile. He doesn't deserve to live this every day while she decides whether or not she still wants him.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly*
I am not trying to flame or be rude. I am just going by what she said. She asked for help but then said that she didn't care if they took him away and that she didn't want to change for him anyways. How else am I supposed to take that?

I don't know....but I took it as she knows this behavior isn't normal and is desperate for help.

Quote:

I've had hard times in my parenting career but one thing has always been certain - even when I was messing up I loved my son more than life itself. I DO know what its like to have depression, I have bipolar and I had really bad ppd after Olivia. But there was never a time that I wished someone would take my child away.
We're all individuals and react differently. I'm glad for you and your child that you've never experienced this, but you're implying that anyone who has experienced these feelings must be a terrible person. Believe it or not, more mothers experience these feelings than will admit it.

Quote:

Maybe it would be best if the child stayed with someone else for awhile. He doesn't deserve to live this every day while she decides whether or not she still wants him.
*That* I can agree with. But that has a much different sound then "maybe you should give him up." That sounds permanent, KWIM?


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Mommynoname -- I'm sorry your family has to struggle with this. I'm surprised that nobody here has talked about our feelings toward our older child when we get pregnant and then have a 2nd baby. I don't think you feelings are completely out of the realm of normal. I think maybe they are extreme, and I agree that your family needs a plan and some help. And I think its likely that you *are* depressed, and possible that your son has some issues too. Setting fires is NOT normal five year old behavior.

However, I can relate to developing negative feelings toward an older child when you are pg. and have a new baby. I was surprised and horrified to find myself feeling active dislike for my oldest after the new baby came along. It was really tough. I can't even imagine how tough it must be when it is as extreme as you describe. What helped me was to set aside very regular time to be alone with my older son and to work actively at reconnecting with him. Maybe that is too simple a solution for your situation -- probably. But maybe it would be a step toward healing? Maybe spending 2 hours alone doing something special with him once a week or so?

If you were willing to disclose what state you live in, it would be easier for us to help you dig up resources. I know of an agency that could help you in my state.


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## Shonahsmom (Mar 23, 2004)

A lot of people don't know that depression, especially depression that stems from abuse, not only causes you to feel sad and hopeless, but it also causes extreme irritability and anger.

I know because I went through it. The depression (and PTSD) stemmed from abuse from my ex partner. It really reached a scary point about 1 1/2 years ago where I was becomming emotionally abusive towards my dd and fantasizing constantly about her not existing (god, that is painful to write).

I did start counselling through a domestic violence center. It was free and I noticed an ENORMOUS difference within 6 weeks or so. I stuck with it every week for a year. I was very honest about how I was treating my dd and I how I felt about her. My counselor never once indicated in any way that she felt she should contact CPS or anything. She knew my behaviour and feelings were a result of my depression and that I was there to fix what was happening.

It pains me now so much that I ever harbored such ill feelings towards my child. What an awful, dark place to be. I am so grateful I took the steps to seek help and really committed to it.

DD and I today? Two happy peas in a pod. Can't get enough of her. I believe I have undid any damage done, as much as is possible. I am gentle, attached and loving and patient and kind to my beautiful child.

Please, honey, get help. There are a lot of free and low cost resources out there, sometimes you just really have to look. I'd be glad to help you search for resources if you want to PM me and tell me where you live.








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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

To the original poster - I haven't read ALL of the responses to you, but I had one thing I wanted to make sure was said. I think that your feelings of resentment toward your older child are feelings that you have transposed. In other words, he is simply an outlet for all of the frustration and anger you feel about other things in your life that you have no outlet for.

I don't mean this in a negative way - I actually mean it in a positive way. I think you probably don't really have all of those negative feelings toward your son, but you have a lot of negative feelings that have no where to go and since he is in an awkward place due to the newer baby, they end up directed toward him.

I really think you can improve this if you get counseling. A counselor can help you identify your true feelings. Even if you just visit a minister, than can help. Or, go on to the Internet and look for anger management groups, or go to the library and look up some anger management books. I think those can really help you as well.

I really feel for you and hope things get better.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I wrote a really long reply to this yesterday and it got eaten...









Basically, I said I was wondering if your hateful feelings toward your son have anything to do with lingering feelings or things you were told about yourself as a child. You mentioned you had an abusive childhood... did you/do you have feelings that you caused it/were bad/rotten to the core?

I know for myself, I was a "challenging" child who talked back, etc, and was told that these behaviours were evidence that I was a "bad girl", was "provoking" my parents' abuse of me. I know a little girl whose behaviour reminds me of some of the things I did, and I notice myself passing the same character annihilating judgments on her.

We can transfer or project our own self-hatred of our child self onto our own children.

No child is "rotten" or evil. Kids may behave in ways that we find challenging. This is true of your son, and it was true of yourself as a child.

I think you need to work on healing your own child self. Therapy would be very helpful, but if it is not available, I would just notice how I feel about myself as a person, and red flag negative messages and look at where they came from.

Read Alice ******'s book "For Your Own Good". It is brilliant.

It would be great if you could sit down with your son and explain to him in an age-appropriate way that he is a good and worthy person, and if you have given him messages that are otherwise, it was because of your own stuff. He is not his behaviour.

I also like the book "Becoming the Parents We Want to Be" and would suggest it because it breaks down "difficult" behaviour and encourages us as parents to "honour the impulse", or look for the motivation for the behaviour, rather than seeing it as intended to hurt us or as indication of a child's bad character.

nak... hope this makes sense! Difficult concepts to convey via email...


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

hi there, you poor mommynoname

There is a parenting syndrome... it has an official name and everything, but I cant remember it... where a parent does the opposite of having a favorite. They had a DIS-favorite or an UN-favorite if that makes any sense. Now I don't know if this happens because there is a problem with the parent, or a problem with the child, or both, or one or the other depending on the situation. It's something to think about.

About counseling: even if you had lots of money/ insurance for therapy, it would not be an instant fix. You would still have to do lots of research on your own, and seeking out a support network. Online is fine.

The fascination with fire is a *huge* red flag for me. I don't know if you "made" him this way or if he pushes your buttons "because" he is this way. You're obviously capable of being a kind and loving parent, since you are this way to your daughter. So on a just-reading-your-post basis I might lean toward the latter. Have you ever considered that your DS was just born with sociopathic tendencies?

Nevertheless you must, must, must stop saying mean things to him. No matter how much he eggs you on. Stay calm, don't scream, no hitting (not saying you do this, but just in case). Read as much as you can about children with attachment disorder/ narcissistic personality disorder etc. Read as much as you can about kids who are fascinated with violence, fire, etc. You have to educate yourself. It will empower you ultimately, and help you see more clearly.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

mommynoname







2

I have been there, done that. Truely and sincerely, I was disgusted and angered by my dd. And she didn't even set anything on fire! She was just a preschooler! I really wanted her to go away. Or for me to go away.

I was depressed, and later learned I have bipolar disorder. Poor girl didn't have a chance. My fuse was not even an inch long. I got medical help and did a lot of self therapy. I just kept analyzing my thoughts, kept trying to understand why I felt the way I did, kept the ultimate goal front and center as much as possible. My ultimate goal was to have a loving, affectionate relationship with dd. Well, she's 9 y.o. and I feel so much better about her.

It's weird, how in the space of 12 hours I could go from wanting to smother my child with a pillow to sobbing in tears at the thought of someone else harming my child.

You will get no flames from me. Just encouragement. You CAN do this, and someday you're going to have a fun, loving relationship with your son, even if you can't imagine that yet.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Heavenly, I'm not going to flame you, either! You are simply advocating for the OP's son, with your unique perspective, right? Just be gentle.


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## FullCream (Mar 24, 2004)

Like mamaduck, I have sometimes been horrified by how much anger and dislike I have had for my DD since DS was born. Before his birth she was my little friend. We got on really well, I enjoyed being with her, challenging behaviour was fairly readily dealt with. After DS birth...things weren't the same. She was (and still can be) difficult to be with - prickly, defiant, mean and we seem to have to deal with challenging behaviour much more frequently than we ever have before (including behaviour that we thought we'd well and truly dealt with as much as four years ago).

I believe that yours is an extreme case and exacerbated by your abuse and depression. But I don't think that you're so outside the realms of what is normal that you should feel ashamed. It's great that you are looking at ways to change. That is often the most difficult step. Good luck.


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## momea (Nov 22, 2001)

Hi mommanoname,
I used to work for a women's health center at a teaching hospital - we took calls like this all the time. Desperate women who had no money for help. You need to get help. It's hard to do though when your resources are so tapped and you are worn down to the core like this. Here are some suggestions:

*1. Have your husband read your post and the replys.*

*2. Have him do the legwork involved in getting you help.* All the way down to setting up the appointment - and driving you there if necessary.

*3. Keep reaching out.* This is imperative. You will learn so much. You will see you are not a monster, you will see other women succeeding and making a future you can make for yourself, you will get a network of women you can rely on in crisis.

Your husband can find you help - there have been a lot of good pointers on how and where to do that in the replys. What seems hopeless to you he will be able to do.

Some other places to try would be:

Birth to Three
http://www.birthto3.org/parents/helpline.html
I used to work peripherally with these people and they are incredible. They would be able to give you some advice regarding your specific situation even though you might not be in the same state and your child is older than three. They are totally there for parents and completely understanding in my experience.

A local women's shelter might have some ideas about low cost/no cost counseling. And they won't judge you.

Child services - even though I know your fear - all you have to do is search my handle and you'll see I've had the same fears. But they might have a support group that would be good for you and they would definitely know of counseling resources. You can call anonymously.

A hospital women's health center if they have one.

Please keep us in touch. I feel so much for you.

This is my life's struggle too. Sometimes I wish I WISH so goddam bad that I didn't have this vein of poison shit running through me.

But by God or the Devil I will not pass this on to my daughter. And that's the only real power I've ever felt in my life. That has the power to heal like nothing else can. If you don't do this it will totally destroy you. Please get help.

Best of luck to you and I will truly be thinking of you,
Eve


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## MsMoMpls (Oct 22, 2002)

Mommnoname seems to have vanished or is lurking. Just wanted to comment on the enormous level of compassion that I see on this list, and in general on MDC. I feel so sad for how isolated moms feel IRL. If they could walk into a room with this much understanding and forgiveness- we could heal the world. Big hugs







2 to the hands that rock the cradles (ok-no cradles- the hands that rock the slings :LOL ) and have the power to rule the world.


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## DebraBaker (Jan 9, 2002)

I just want to reply to say how I feel for this mom.

Incidentally I just had to mediate a situation with my challenging son as I was starting to write this post.

I have felt that way about one of my children. I understand the guilt and pain. The conflicting emotions within my heart, how frustrated I would get but love the child enough to die protecting him.

Some children are simply born with difficult temperments or temperments that are completely in conflict with your own.

This one child has stretched me. Just now he was fighting over a video game. I told them they could play but they must play nicely, no fighting no name calling, no complaining. DS started his usual emoting and I had to calmly (even though he was pissing me off because I had moments before outlined my expectations for them playing the game) tell him to stop playing the game (established consequence) he continued emoting, I sent him to his room to calm down, he emoted some more and is presently in his room calming down.

This is an improvement over earlier behavior. (he is now 12)

This child has been my most challenging. He was hard to nurse as a baby, he had the worst sleeping patterns as a baby, he had night terrors as a toddler, he constantly got into and destroyed my stuff (nothing was safe, he destroyed thousands of dollars worth of things) He flushed the toothbrushes down the toilet, the remote was flushed. He had a bout with matches. He would get into my flour, coffeebeans, etc. etc. etc. He would dump entire bottles of shampoo down the drain, etc. (at the time we were too poor to waste)

He was (is) very emotionally needy. He would push my buttons and drive me crazy but he *needed* to be loved and cuddled and accepted even more than the other children.

In retrospect I should have gone to get some help but I was afraid of having my children taken away. (Actually he created that paranoia in me because he was found on the third floor roof once, he rode his bigwheel down the street another time and he walked to the corner another time, I was afraid of being reported for neglect. I would lock the door and put on the chain (at the top of the door) and he could open thos locks at the tender age of 2)

If I had it to do again I'd get the help because there are simply children that take a lot of work and you really must learn how to do things differently with them. I had to learn not to react emotionally with him. I had to pray so hard to have love, compassion, and affection to give to him when he was so difficult to love at times.

He is geting easier but he will be a teenager soon and I know that I will go to that place in a different way than with my other children.

I am saying a prayer for you because I have been to a similar place and know how hard it is on a mother's heart.

Debra Baker


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## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Oh, mama







2

I can't imagine your pain and inner torment. I'm *pleading* with you to seek help, ASAP. There ARE resources available to you...start with social services (just say you need free family counseling, you don't have to say why) or just call counselors in the yellow pages and find out who charges on a sliding scale...many do, and will counsel for free if there is need.

Please, please do this for yourself, for your son, and for your family. He cannot help himself...he needs you to do this for him. The fascination with fire scares the hell out of me...esp if he is lying to procure matches!!! Look past your resentment...I can tell that you have love for him, it is just buried under all the resentment. You need help purging your past issues so that you can heal, you can help your son heal, and so that your family will be healthy and safe.

Praying for you and your family.


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## Holland73 (Jan 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly*
Maybe it would be best if the child stayed with someone else for awhile. He doesn't deserve to live this every day while she decides whether or not she still wants him.

I am mostly a lurker, but this thread has been bothering me all day long.

First of all, mommynoname, I think it is absolutely admirable that you are able to ask for help, voice your feelings so openly and look for help. I think this shows what a strong woman you are and that you do love your son.

BUT...I think a HUGE element is being missed here and Heavenly hit the button with the above statement.

It is wonderful that you, mommynoname, can come here and ask for help, get support, etc, but what about the voice of your son? Who is listening to him? Who is helping and supporting him through this abuse?

I am sorry, I swear I am not flaming you in any manner, but your son needs an advocate, someone to "speak" for him. To be honest, I don't even think I would be a very good advocate for your son, as I cannot possibly conceive of how all of this long-term resentment and anger from the two people in his life, who should be there for him, must feel to a 5 year old. My heart just aches thinking about your son. I left work early just to spend some extra time with my ds because of this thread.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE find somewhere your ds can stay while you work all of this out. As Heavenly said, "He doesn't deserve to live this every day..." Although, I wouldn't not have said, "while she decides whether or not she still wants him," but rather, while you work out these issues. (No offense, Heavenly!







)

My heart is with you and your family!


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## mommynoname (Sep 12, 2004)

I wrote all this and then tried to post it and the forum said I wasn't logged in







So my new one is shorter but I will try not to leave anything out.

I read this thread and cried. I never imagined so many mamas would say such compassionate and loving and most of all, understanding things. A lot of it rang true to what I figured out these past few days, like him evoking my self-loathing feelings. If I was so similar to him as a child, and my own mommy told me I was horrible, then he must be horrible too. And I must have produced a horrible child because of how bad *I* am inside. It's all mixed up in my head, together, too hard to untangle by myself.

I wish I had someone I could trust to take him for a little while. I do not. If I did, I wouldn't feel so alone with this. I told my husband that he needs to be the one to tend to our son whenever he's home, answer his questions, get him snacks and so on, so our son feels he has one loving parent, one normal parent.

I told my son that I'm not a good mama right now, that something inside me is sick and changing what I'm like, and that Daddy will help me get well.

My husband is looking into counseling. He says he will do the legwork, but I have to remind him. I can only conclude that he really doesn't grasp how much of an emergency this has become, how close to the edge of the cliff I have come. I wish I had some way to show him but since I don't, I keep telling him I need help, I need help. I feel like a failure because I don't just pick up the phone myself, but even thinking of doing that is so terrifying and intimidating.

Right now I try very hard to get enough sleep, enough to eat, and to let go of doing "my share" of things, especially the demanding and draining parenting. I tell myself that I need my husband to do more than his fair share right now, but it will not last forever.

It means more than I can say to read the words from mamas who have exerienced what I have and found that it didn't have to last forever. Especially Shonahsmom and the mama who said she determined that she would not pass this on to her child. I feel often like giving up because I already have failed in not passing it on to my son, he'll always have some scars from this. But if I can stop it, I will still have done something for him that my mother didn't do for me, right?

Thank you all.


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## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

Sending you strength and healing wishes.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

mommynoname, exactly! One of my favorite words of wisdom about parenting says something to the effect of, We all get two chances at having a good parent/child relationship. If the first one, with your own parent doesn't work out, you've got a golden opportunity with your own child to fix the hurts.

And what is it with the guys??







When I was going through my own parenting crisis I thought it was pretty obvious I was in a world of pain. And it hurt my feelings that dh never caught on enough to take the initiative and get me some help. I think that yes, they don't realize the depth of the problem, but also they're afraid to help. Afraid of what, I'm not sure.

I have since told dh explicitly that there might be a time when I'll need him to step in for me. Beyond that, I'm not sure what to say to him.

It's interesting. When I was a teen I went at it with my mom many times, and those aruguments got out of hand. And I *really* wish my dad had stepped in to say, "Cut it out, both of you!"

Sorry to get so off topic. But a lot of what you said, mommynoname, had me nodding my head in recognition. Lots of love and hugs to you!


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## KellyB (Jun 15, 2006)

Just sending more love your way, mommynoname...
If you can just get your dh to log on here, we will sure get a fire under his a** for you...lol...


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommynoname*
. A lot of it rang true to what I figured out these past few days, like him evoking my self-loathing feelings. If I was so similar to him as a child, and my own mommy told me I was horrible, then he must be horrible too. And I must have produced a horrible child because of how bad *I* am inside. It's all mixed up in my head, together, too hard to untangle by myself.









This is so sad to read. Good for you for realizing these feelings are here. I hope you can give yourself compassion and know that YOU WERE NOT A HORRIBLE CHILD. This was a lie your mother told you, because someone told it to her or she couldn't figure out how to deal with being a mommy or WHATEVER the reason is (and if you think about her life and/or ask her some questions you can probably figure out what the reason was). It was not true.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommynoname*
.I told my son that I'm not a good mama right now, that something inside me is sick and changing what I'm like, and that Daddy will help me get well.

I feel often like giving up because I already have failed in not passing it on to my son, he'll always have some scars from this. But if I can stop it, I will still have done something for him that my mother didn't do for me, right?

Yes yes yes!!! You will have. Can you imagine how it would have felt to you if your mama had come to you and told you that she wasn't being a good mama when she gave you negative and untrue messages about who you were, that it was because something inside her was sick and changing her??? And can you imagine how you would have felt if she worked really hard to figure out what it was, and stopped it???

You are taking VERY COURAGEOUS AND IMPORTANT STEPS to do something for your son that will change who he is for the rest of his life. YOU ROCK! Good for you!

Lots of love and good wishes mommynoname.


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## mommynoname (Sep 12, 2004)

I have been thinking about the sociopathic thing.

At frst when I read someone suggesting it I didn't believe it but now I am wondering. What if there "really" is something "wrong" with my son and the whole time I think I am crazy for thinking it? I do not think it would be the only issue by far but it keeps coming up in my mind now.

Besides lighting things on fire, he does not seem to have any empathy. I know toddlers can't be xpected to have empathy but he is not a toddler anymore, he is 5, and he doesn't seem to care if somene is upset or sad or hurt, he only wants to know how it will affect what he wants (You are upset, mama, I'm sorry, can we still go to the grocery store?) I can explain till I'm blue in the mouth, at my most frantic moments I beg and plead with him for understanding (quiet for 5 minutes; go play in another room; I need to go to the bathroom by myself) and he just doesn't care.

He has started hurting his sister the past few days. I can't leave him alone with her for two seconds. He will step on her hand or something and then try to run to the other side of the room when she cries, and lie about it.

He has always had huge impulse control problems.

He will lie over and over even when faced with evidence of his lying (I know you have gum in your pocket, take it out; I did NOT tell Daddy you could have a cookie; I see that the neighbors car is NOT in the drive). As if he can't grasp the difference between reality and his wants. I don't know how abnormal this is for 5. I have worked with many kids and never seen it though.

I don't know how many of those things can be explained by me not modeling appropriate social skills for him. Our marriage was in shambles when he was about 6 months-1 1/2 years so he did not have the stability I would imagine a baby needs. For a while the stress was high enough that he would bang his head when he got frustrated. This only lasted a few months and our marriage is much better now, only this new issue threatens to harm it again









I don't know how many of these things could be explained by the fact that he just is having a crappy time and a crappy mom, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Can being emotionally traumatized cause someone to be sociopathic?

How/where could I get him evaluated?

I have no news about counseling. Dh says no one will call him back. It could be that he is not making much effort to make the calls, or forgetting, instead.

I had 2 panic attacks today. I felt angry at my baby for the first time since she was about 3 months old and screaming nonstop for a reason I couldn't figure out, and my husband was at work.

I thought it could get better but now I don't feel hopeful. I wish I could start over, or run away and never come back. I feel a monumental sense of failure.


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## MsMoMpls (Oct 22, 2002)

Please, please, please, drop the sociopath thing immediately.

Lets say we saw 1000 kids just like yours. Maybe, just maybe there would be one sociopath. And the best way to get him there is start over thinking every thing he does.

He has problems with anger and impulse control. He may have some neurological symptoms. These are very fixable things. Certainly a stressful period in his childhood could be an issue, more likely you are right- he's got a fussy mom, and both of you are going through a rough time right now. Therapy for both of all of you is very important.

As far as the empathy thing, just think of it like a learning disability- his moral development is just a litttle delayed. That happens to lots of kids.

You still haven't mentioned where you live. There are lots of offers for help if you will let us.


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## ian'smommaya (Jun 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommynoname*
but who do I call? We have no insurance, we have no money. And I'm afraid if someone finds out how awful I'm being, although I do not hit, they will take away my kids even though i'm trying to get help!


you call family and children services, here in minneapolis they are on a sliding fee scale or jewish family services look ti up in the phone book or first call for help which is the united way and here the nu. is 211 all these places can connect you with free counsuling. please do so right away. please. good luck.
maya


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

I think there is about a 0.0001% chance that your son is a sociopath. Please don't try and remove the blame for your problems from your son and place them on a 5 year old. Of course he is going to have no empathy, you have stated you don't show him any. Of course he is going to be angry, look how he is treated. Of course he is going to want to hurt his sister, he's not an idiot and he KNOWS she is the wanted one and he is not. I went through a really hard time after my daughter was born and I was really nasty to my son. I still have problems with temper from an abusive past. My son has a lot of anger issues and we are working through them but I 100% accept that they are MY fault and my husband's fault. Without a stable environment how do you expect a stable child?


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## LisainCalifornia (May 29, 2002)

I am pleading with you to get help for yourself, and not leave it to your husband to get help for you. You say you cannot handle making the calls--but I KNOW you can. Just wake up tomorrow and get out the phone book and do it. Putting the task off on your husband is just another roadblock for you to get help.

The examples you have given about your son's behaviors sound challenging, but also very normal. 5 year olds tell lies all the time and also are known to hit or pinch or "accidently" hurt their baby siblings. All totally normal kid behavior. It could be that he has ADHD or other neurological issues. Do you take him to a doctor or free clinic? You could make the appointment to who ever you see, and describe these behaviors to the doctor and the doctor may have resources for free help for your son.

I also think you should try an antidepressant for yourself and see if it helps you to cope with his behavior better. It may be that once you get help, you can then help him.

Hugs,
Lisa


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## mommynoname (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heavenly*
I think there is about a 0.0001% chance that your son is a sociopath. Please don't try and remove the blame for your problems from your son and place them on a 5 year old. Of course he is going to have no empathy, you have stated you don't show him any. Of course he is going to be angry, look how he is treated. Of course he is going to want to hurt his sister, he's not an idiot and he KNOWS she is the wanted one and he is not. I went through a really hard time after my daughter was born and I was really nasty to my son. I still have problems with temper from an abusive past. My son has a lot of anger issues and we are working through them but I 100% accept that they are MY fault and my husband's fault. Without a stable environment how do you expect a stable child?

So how did your kids learn compassion?


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## MsMoMpls (Oct 22, 2002)

Like most things, they learn by example but they don't learn until they are ready to learn. Compassion comes later for some kids and really very few kids don't learn it.


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## LisainCalifornia (May 29, 2002)

empathy is something that is still being learned at your son's age. I have a 7 year old that is still struggling with it! At 5 it was all about her, no matter what was going on with anyone else. Some kids are more empathetic than others.
I found this at www.familyfirst.com--

3-5: It's very hard for kids this age to see someone else's point of view. Their ability to control themselves -- to not become overwhelmed by emotion or desire -- is tenuous. Your preschooler needs lots of love, positive reinforcement and consistent limit-setting around behaviors.

6-10: Grade-schoolers have a strong sense of justice. Each year, they gain more self control. During this period, your child develops a greater sense of empathy and compassion.
By age eight, he should be able to really understand what it feels like to be hurt. However, his need to belong and the influence of his peers may cause him to do things he actually knows are wrong.

Grade-schoolers need help taking responsibility for their actions and learning that actions have consequences. Children change a lot during this time: A six-year-old might not understand the finality of death, but a ten-year-old should have a good sense of what it means.


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## mommynoname (Sep 12, 2004)

I did want to thank you MsMoMpls, Lisa, and Iansmom for your helpfulness. It is a huge relief to know that there isn't some other, huge unknown thing (sociopathy) to deal with here on top of all the other issues I know exist. What you say does make sense. My last reply was not targeted at any of you.


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## LisainCalifornia (May 29, 2002)

I want you to hang in there, honey--and do get yourself some help. Really, don't wait for your husband to help you...you can do this! Be strong and make this last part of the journey for your son. I know you love him. You are just at your wit's end right now.

Hugs,
Lisa


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## MsMoMpls (Oct 22, 2002)

Mommynoname you are driving me insane!!! (I mean that compassionately-







)I want to know where you are. I want to know that you are really getting help. I won't trash a mom that is struggling as hard as you are. You don't need any help feeing guilty. But you can't just ask for support and not do anything. These boards are nice but not the kind of help you need. If you would tell us what state you live in, someone on this list would do all the work for you to find a contact person. The clock is ticking. Your kids only get one childhood. Do something now.


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## guerrillamama (Oct 27, 2003)

well, everyone has already said everything.

i just wanted to add:
i know it seems so overwhelming. i know it seems impossible to pick up the phone and ask for help. i know it seems terrifying, that you'll end up nowhere or worse off than you are now. i know all that research sounds like too much to deal with. i know all this is made worse by depression and hopelessness and fear. my suggestion would be to focus on making *just 1 phone call.* call your local crisis line - they are usually great resources. the crisis line volunteer should be able to help you talk thru some stuff and give you a list of resources. yes, you and dh will still have to make calls yourselves, but at least you don't have to do all that research, the crisis line people have already done it for you. 1 step at a time, ok?

also, some cities have parenting crisis lines, if your town has one your general crisis line should be able to direct you there.

like others have said, you are very brave to be asking for help and taking steps to change. it is going to get harder, but then it *is* going to get better. don't stop now.








:


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## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Your husband is stalling.

PLEASE make a phone call. Lots of services have been listed here...if it hasn't already been mentioned you can also call Catholic Charities for help. I know it's hard...I've had to make the call myself, and it took me HOURS just to pick up the phone. I had to keep reminding myself that it was for my family's well-being and my own sanity.

Pleading with you again to seek some help. It is out there. You *can* make this situation better. Please help your innocent children who cannot help themselves.

Praying for your strength and resolve today.


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## wombat (Nov 3, 2002)

mommynoname, are you receiving any treatment for depression currently? Are you on medication for the panic attacks? I've suffered from depression on and off and I know just how much it skews your thinking, increases your negativity, and kills your initiative and energy. I can't imagine trying to deal effectively with such problems while depressed and untreated. I can imagine it'd be easy to believe your son is a sociopath when you're seriously depressed, kwim? But when you're well, you may just shrug off some of the things that he does as just annoying. If you want to help your son, you first have to help yourself. And restore his mama to her 'real' well self again.

In the meantime, getting your ds involved in something that's positive for him would be a big help. Maybe Big Brothers, Big Sisters?
http://www.bbbsa.org/site/pp.asp?c=iuJ3JgO2F&b=14576
If he's able to take part in something like this, have an outlet so to speak, it'll make your job easier in the long run.

And I hope Parent's Anonymous can direct you to some counselling services.

I just want to repeat that I think you'll be able to deal with this situation a lot better if you're being treated for any depression and anxiety. Untreated depression wrecks many lives.


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## Houdini (Jul 14, 2004)

Try a local domestic violence shelter for a couselor for your son and yourself. In Ohio (where I am anyway) you can get help through there and they don't charge you or use a sliding scale fee. My son started seeing a couselor at six through the shelter (the counselor is actually a friend of the family whom we trusted). They didn't charge us for the sessions.


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## mischievium (Feb 9, 2003)

Another suggestion on where to get help...
If there are any universities/colleges near you that have graduate programs in psychology/ counseling/ social work, they probably run a clinic which offers counseling on a sliding scale. For example, at Boston University the Danielson Institute offers counseling , see: http://www.bu.edu/danielsen/

I don't know where you are, but think of the colleges/universities in your area and poke around their websites. Sometimes their clinics are only open to students/ faculty, but usually they are open to the general public.


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## mommynoname (Sep 12, 2004)

I want to tell all of you about these wonderful places to "get help".

They are crap.

Husband and I have spent a week now calling.

The crisis line was almost the only place that even picked up. They gave us numbers to call. We called those numbers. No one there but an answering service. I was too afraid to leave a message. How is leaving a message anonymous? Husband left messages, though. No one called back.

We called numbers from web sites. Husband left messages again. ONE place called back to say they were in the wrong town for us and to call another number. No one called back from that one.

Parents Anonymous's web site, the link is broken to the page where you can find a group near you







:

I am desperate to be treated for my depression and my panic attacks. I want to be sane and rational with my family. I am a raving lunatic some days. I want to be able to have the phone ring or the ups guy knock on the door without freaking out.

We have applied for medical coupons. It has been a week with no reply about our application despite the fact that we indicated an emergency on our paperwork.

The next time I see a thread bashing some mother who has snapped and hurt a child or worse, I swear I will scream. Don't tell me again and don't you dare tell anyone else how simple it is to get help. No one cares about helping me. I am self destructing and no one cares.


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## KellyB (Jun 15, 2006)

Oh mommynoname...
I'm so sorry...that's terrible...but please know this...the mamas here care.
I'm going to go and find a parents anonymous number or something for you.
Those programs are awsome...I went through a program that ended in "A" a while back, and it was totally better than I expected. It was different from what I expected, but better and less "thanks for sharing" than I had expected.
It's simply a group of people in the same situation all getting together and figuring stuff out. I don't know why it works, but it does.
I'll be back...I'm off to the land of google...


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## KellyB (Jun 15, 2006)

Ok...here a 24 hour hotline that welcomes people in exactly your situation..
1-800-422-4453
(it's a child abuse prevention organization that has a huge database of resources)

Here's where you can e-mail Parents anonymous
[email protected]
or call (909)621-6184
or 621-6184

Also, I'd email these people at
[email protected]
(it's an organization devoted to ending the cycle of child abuse)

Hope that helps...please post here as often as you feel...you're in our thoughts and prayers...

Allright...I found more hotline numbers...
Here's one for postpartum depression...1-800-PPD-moms
Here's a depression hotline...1-800-551-0008


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

go to your local hospital NOW.

turn over your kids to either a trusted friend, family member, or CPS.

admit yourself the to the psych ward and explain all of what's going on.

MAKE them treat you.

one of my sisters went through a similar situation; she sent all of her kids to their godparent's home and admitted herself to the psychiatric ward, and forced them to give her the help she needed.

now she has bills to pay off but at least she can be a better mother.

has anyone read A Child Called It? it seems like this situation is leading up to something like that, and that terrifies me.

you need to get your kids out of the home immediately and get yourself some help before this gets any worse.


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## MsMoMpls (Oct 22, 2002)

I won't make any excuses. Although I would suggest we all check in our own areas as to what is available. Too many budget cuts have put us all in trouble.

What state are you in? We are willing to do some of this for you. As for answering machines- just leave a name and number- don't leave any information. This is just a scheduling person, not a therapist. I do know that the waiting list in my office is kind of long but our scheduler would ask me to give up my lunch hour if she thought it was important but she doesn't read minds. I am hurting for you and more hurting for all the moms who don't know we are here. It is so hard out there. Please keep asking for help even if it is hard.


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## guerrillamama (Oct 27, 2003)

oh god, that is awful. i feel for you, mama, there is nothing worse than finally gathering up the courage to ask for help and then just getting smacked down. but please don't give up!

a word on admitting yourself to the psych ward: i do know people who have done this because they were suicidal. it is true that if you show up at the hospital and say "i am seriously afraid that i am going to hurt my child or myself" they will HAVE to take you. whether or not they will actually help you is a different question, and depends on the individual hospital and its staff. one friend had a very good experience. he got counseling and a much needed break and was much less suicidal when he left the hospital. another friend had a very bad experience. she refused to take meds so they kicked her out, and she was no less suicidal than when she'd gone in. another friend didn't really want to go in, but was basically dragged in by her friends because she was extremely suicidal. although she was admitted "voluntarily," they very quickly had a hearing and changed her status to an involuntary commitment (i'm not clear on how this happened, and in any case i'm sure the laws vary from state to state) and she found herself in there for a month. i'm not sure whether that was good or bad... from her perspective it was a horrible, dehumanizing experience... but on the other hand, she is alive today.

going to the hospital might actually be the best option for you now, because it really is an emergency... but i would encourage you to think carefully about the implications and different scenarios and talk it over w/ your husband.

as for medical bills, i agree w/ klothos... even if you are in debt for a long time, that is a small price to pay for the safety and happiness of your family.

good luck







:


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## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

Would you like someone here to be your advocate? I am willing to do this and I am sure many other mamas who have posted here are willing, also. You would need to PM one of us with your location, and one of us could do the calling for you. I am sure that it is incredibly frustrating to feel like you are reaching out for help and getting nowhere. At least one of us can call the numbers for you and try to schedule an appointment, that would be one less thing for you to stress over. If you would like me to do this, please PM me, I would be happy to help in any way I can.


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## MsMoMpls (Oct 22, 2002)

me. too.


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## spero (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommynoname*
No one cares about helping me. I am self destructing and no one cares.

Oh, mama...obviously there are women here who DO care. *Please* let someone help you, if you can't help yourself.

I am so afraid for you and for your family.







: that you find the help you need, TODAY.


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## granolamom (Sep 30, 2002)

I am lighting a candle for you!!!!

I wish you lived close and I would puy my arms around you and your ds!!!!

I live in Tennessee...If I live anywhere near you, I am willing to come and help...or you are welcome to come to me...our house is not large but is filled with love..please PM me









Blessings to you,
Granolamom


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I can try to help with resources in Delaware, in NE Maryland, SE Pensylvania, and South Jersey. Just give me the word.


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## ComaWhite (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:

The next time I see a thread bashing some mother who has snapped and hurt a child or worse, I swear I will scream. Don't tell me again and don't you dare tell anyone else how simple it is to get help
Something that would make the pain go away instantly and forever. Sadly, there is no such thing. But all these things _combined_ with your will and yourinsisting that there is something better out there for you, for your family, will help. Try antidepressants, try 10 different kinds....try everything offerered, try anything.
You will be happy one day.

Find a safe place for your children and work on YOU.
Do some serious soul searching and create rituals of inner peace and healing whether it be through religion, prayer, meditation, whatever you need.

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This is my life's struggle too. Sometimes I wish I WISH so goddam bad that I didn't have this vein of poison shit running through me.

But by God or the Devil I will not pass this on to my daughter. And that's the only real power I've ever felt in my life. That has the power to heal like nothing else can. If you don't do this it will totally destroy you. Please get help.
I think this is worth repeating.

You not only need to find help, but you need to find a _reason for you._

Its going to be a tough road. There will be days that you feel like you havent made any progress. But when you find your strength, you will be able to do it. Just comming here and being so brutally honest shows me that you have tremendous strength. You can get through this. You can break the cycle of abuse.

I believe in you.


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## nikirj (Oct 1, 2002)

I know nothing about councelling, about phone numbers or websites or organizations. I'd like to share something about myself.

I could have been you.

DD was born before my DH and I got married. I was living, without him, at my parents house (because my parents were insistent and we couldn't afford our own place yet). I had PPD and had it bad - I had psychotic thoughts, really scary ones, visions of myself killing her (this is tough to admit, bear with me, I really believe I had *true* PPD, a true chemical imbalance), I felt like my mind and my body were separate entities, that by separating myself in this way I could avoid doing something unforgiveable even when I thought it, even when I thought it so hard it FELT like I was doing it. I cared for her because I was *supposed* to care for her, I took good care of her following AP principles only because that was the only way I knew how to parent (it was how my parents parented infants, they weren't so hot later on...). By God's grace and my not caring enough to read mainstream parenting books, she survived the first year or so of her life without major trauma despite my depression. My PPD largely let up around 6 months when DH and I got married and moved in together - I stopped having really psychotic ideas but the depression persisted - but didn't lift entirely until around a year or so.

My depression lifted gradually. I found I didn't know my daughter. I had built up this ideation about her that just wasn't true. I had managed to keep a normal face on myself and on my interactions with her, but it felt like she was a stranger. Like she wasn't actually connected to me. Depression gone, I still cared for her out of routine, out of obligation, out of some shallowly-thought-out idea that I loved her.

When DS was born, I didn't suffer PPD. I found out what it is really supposed to feel like to *love* your child. I found out that I didn't really *love* my daughter this way, the way I was supposed to. Oh, it hurt. I didn't feel like I was attached to her, like I cared for her, like she was worth caring for.

She was 2 at the time. I could have become you.

Instead, I decided then and there to stop resenting her. I made a very conscious decision to change the way I felt about her. It wasn't easy. It is hard to make yourself care for someone. But it worked. What changed me was largely spiritual, a thing of prayer and meditation, and also largely an inner letting-go of my resentment. It was not just pretending to care when she got hurt so that she'd stop crying - it was holding her and not wishing she'd just shut up already, at first forcing myself towards compassion, later simply giving myself permission to let go of all else and focus on her and what she was feeling. It was getting outside myself and into her.

I don't know if I sound sane at all. I'm sharing what worked for me in a very similar situation. I don't know how to give you advice because a lot of the things that worked for me, worked because she was still so young. There is hope for you though, hope that you can not just stop being abusive towards your son, but that you can start actually *caring* for him again in a way that right now, might seem against something fundamental inside of you, a fundamental block that you (if you are like me) have somewhere, keeping you from really *loving* your son.


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## Eeyore (Jul 16, 2004)

Your posts really, really frighten me. I mean that in the most loving, non-judgemental way possible, but I am frightened for you and your children.

I am in Ontario, Canada. If you are near me, I would be happy to help in any way possible. PM me.


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