# Nursing to Sleep -- good or bad?



## eliotsmommy (Mar 18, 2008)

Okay, so... a few months ago we were having a really hard time as a family with DS's sleep patterns (up every hour or two all night long), and I read a few books about sleep. In the end, I came to the conclusion that most books on babies' sleep really just wind up setting unreasonable expectations and frustrating parents unnecessarily... every baby is unique, and the "experts" and their one-size-fits-all approaches were starting to drive me crazy. We have reached a great equilibrium now -- DS is about 8 months and wakes usually twice during the night to nurse for about 20 minutes, then right back to sleep. (We no longer co-sleep -- I get up and go to his room and nurse him in a rocking chair.)

One theme in all those sleep books continues to haunt me, though... because it seemed to be so pervasive, regardless of whether I was reading an AP-oriented book or not... and that was this idea that you should put your baby to bed drowsy but not asleep so that they can learn to fall asleep on their own.

I nurse Eliot to sleep each night. It is one of the most wonderful times of my day, and I hope of his too. Bedtime is peaceful and happy and devoid of struggles, battles of will, or crying. I think we have a system that works beautifully for us and I don't see any compelling reason to change it.

BUT -- I sometimes wonder whether nursing him to sleep will make things more difficult down the road or whether it is encouraging bad sleep habits (as many of the "experts" imply). Can anyone out there who also nurses/nursed their LOs to sleep offer words of wisdom and experience?


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Nursing to sleep is neither good nor bad. It's simply the biological norm.

2 arms, 2 legs, good or bad? Well... just the norm. So I suppose one could argue that the norm is good.... but it's more simple than that.

It's just the way most mammals are designed.

-Angela


----------



## eliotsmommy (Mar 18, 2008)

Okay, I deserved that for naming the thread as I did... sorry! I don't actually expect a black-and-white answer to my question... more a "how did it work out for you after all was said and done?" answer...


----------



## folkgirl (Jun 18, 2006)

All I can speak from is my own experience. I nursed to sleep as long as possible and would still do it now if it worked (she's 19 months). It does work for some naptimes, but usually not for bedtime and definitely not every time I want it to work.









I wouldn't worry about what all the books say. I try to go by the philosophy "if it's not a problem for you, it's not a problem." Even the No Cry Sleep Solution (which is the gentlest sleep book I know of) has a section at the beginning about deciding whether Pantley's method is right for you. She said basically if you like the way things are there's no reason to change it.

I promise you that no matter what, your child will one day be able to go to sleep on his own. I can't tell you what day it will be, but definitely before he starts college.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

For some children being put down awake helps them sleep better. It never worked for my son but I don't see the harm in trying if you feel like things need to change.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

How would the norm encourage bad habits?







:

Just doesn't make sense.

My dd always nursed to sleep. She stopped needing it all the time at around 2.5 yrs. Still when she naps she usually nurses down









What sort of "bad habit" could it create?

Children stop nursing when they've outgrown the need. Including nursing to sleep.

-Angela


----------



## Nicole_ac (Mar 25, 2008)

I understand your question. I too have had my doubts. I nurse my baby to sleep every night, I love it, it's working out great. She is 6 1/2 months now.
I intend to do so for a few more months, after that I am hoping to read her a book and make her fall asleep on her own. I am hoping, I can only take it as it goes...


----------



## basilisa76 (Jul 31, 2007)

I think is OK but there is a point when you need to start putting them down ALMOST asleep in order for them to transition to sleeping without nursing (if you want them to do so). I did nurse to sleep my daughter until she was a year old and then started unlatching her and putting her to my shoulder to rub her back and sing a bit more before i put her to bed. Some days it worked, some others it didn't but now she is 20 months and does fine.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *basilisa76* 
I think is OK but there is a point when you need to start putting them down ALMOST asleep in order for them to transition to sleeping without nursing (if you want them to do so). I did nurse to sleep my daughter until she was a year old and then started unlatching her and putting her to my shoulder to rub her back and sing a bit more before i put her to bed. Some days it worked, some others it didn't but now she is 20 months and does fine.

Nah. I don't believe that. We don't need to be *taught* how to sleep any more than we need to be *taught* how to walk.

When they are ready they will fall asleep without nursing. I've not yet heard of a 10 year old who needed to nurse to sleep









-Angela


----------



## PPK (Feb 15, 2007)

In our expereince it was causing ds to become reliant on the breast to put hmself back to sleep for every nightwaking he had...this meant 6-12 times a night. I used the NCSS so he could learn how to fall asleep without nursing so that if/when I went back to work (nights), he wouldn't be a complete mess without me there. Also, I think its a nice skill to have and it also allowed him to wake a little less frequently at night (all this is in regards to the NCSS, and never regarding any other 'method').

I did return to work at 6 months pp, approximately 2 shifts per week at night after he's in bed. When he wakes he's able to go back to sleep with a bum pat from dh. So in our expereince, it was very helpful and helped to avoid a traumatic scene for ds when I returned to work.

This isn't to say I never let him fall asleep on the breast anymore (the past few days he's been ill so he's been on the breast 24/7). I'm not super strict (maybe that's why my results were fair regarding sleeping significantly longer stretches). At night and for naps we side-lie nurse till ds is just about asleep and if he's having a touchy, chaotic day I let him fall asleep at the breast b/c otherwise it'd disturb him.

If you have help, or don't mind the situation as it is, I'd say don't change a thing. Waking 2x/night is really pretty good IMO.


----------



## PPK (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Nursing to sleep is neither good nor bad. It's simply the biological norm.

2 arms, 2 legs, good or bad? Well... just the norm. So I suppose one could argue that the norm is good.... but it's more simple than that.

It's just the way most mammals are designed.

-Angela


Do you have any links? I have an honest interest, but personally have never lived on a farm, or had much direct encounters with wild mammals.
TIA!


----------



## STJinNoVa (Dec 25, 2007)

Waking twice a night to eat and go right back down, without a struggle, in 20 minutes, sounds like heaven to me.

If it works, why change it?

I think sometimes kids do rely too much on nursing to sleep - the ones that have to nurse every time the sleep cycle veers toward wakefulness or worse, have to be latched on all night - and I wouldn't necessarily consider that to be "working". But waking up a couple times for nourishment and cuddles and right back down, I'd consider that an arrangement that works.


----------



## thefragile7393 (Jun 21, 2005)

I've honestly never gotten why it's a big deal or it's a bad habit (and why mother's obsess over "bad habits" in young babe!). Sure ds nursed to sleep, but he developmentally got to the point where he didn't NEED it to go to sleep, now he simply has it before he goes to sleep. It's just the natural process of things, eventually they grow out of it


----------



## GSMama (Jul 26, 2006)

I nursed my DD to sleep every night for 19 mths...when she weaned she just started falling asleep on her own.

If it's working for you I wouldn't worry about what the books say very much. I spent a lot of time early on reading books and driving myself nuts because I thought she should behave in a certain way. I finally came to terms with the fact that as long as all of us are getting some sleep that's the most important thing.


----------



## STJinNoVa (Dec 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenrose9* 
Do you have any links? I have an honest interest, but personally have never lived on a farm, or had much direct encounters with wild mammals.
TIA!

FWIW, I grew up on a farm, and can say unequivocally that baby goats, horses, and cows don't really behave like baby humans. Maybe other baby primates do; I don't know.

But because goats, horses, and cows all nurse standing up for the most part, no, they really don't nurse to sleep. They're also born at a significantly more advanced level of maturation than humans - they're born able to walk, for instance, and are grazing/foraging at 2-3 months of age.

I don't suppose their habits are comparable, personally, so I would disagree that most mammals are designed to nurse to sleep, but that doesn't negate the notion that nursing to sleep is a biological norm for baby humans.


----------



## LeighB (Jan 17, 2008)

I agree with pp who said if it works for you, then it's not a problem. We nurse to sleep every night now, and she falls asleep easier, stays asleep longer, and is generally just happier around bedtime.

I'm sure in a a year or so she'll learn to sleep without it, but for now it works.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenrose9* 
Do you have any links? I have an honest interest, but personally have never lived on a farm, or had much direct encounters with wild mammals.
TIA!

Ever watched infant kittens or puppies?

No links at hand.... but watch a few nature films









-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *STJinNoVa* 
FWIW, I grew up on a farm, and can say unequivocally that baby goats, horses, and cows don't really behave like baby humans. Maybe other baby primates do; I don't know.

But because goats, horses, and cows all nurse standing up for the most part, no, they really don't nurse to sleep. They're also born at a significantly more advanced level of maturation than humans - they're born able to walk, for instance, and are grazing/foraging at 2-3 months of age.

I don't suppose their habits are comparable, personally, so I would disagree that most mammals are designed to nurse to sleep, but that doesn't negate the notion that nursing to sleep is a biological norm for baby humans.









I was thinking about pointing out that hoofed animals who nurse standing are a different creature.

-Angela


----------



## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefragile7393* 
I've honestly never gotten why it's a big deal or it's a bad habit (and why mother's obsess over "bad habits" in young babe!). Sure ds nursed to sleep, but he developmentally got to the point where he didn't NEED it to go to sleep, now he simply has it before he goes to sleep. It's just the natural process of things, eventually they grow out of it

















:


----------



## zoshamosha (Apr 15, 2006)

There are books like the Baby Whisperer that will tell you to avoid nursing to sleep because then your baby will associate nursing with sleeping and then you run into a whole nightmare.

But in my experience, you don't really choose. Babies, especially newborns, tend to fall asleep while nursing. It's practically impossible to avoid it. So what are you going to do?

At some point my daughter just stopped nursing to sleep and THAT was the nightmare. I'd nurse her in bed at bedtime and then she'd sit up and decide to play a little longer. That was the point when we had to figure out another plan.


----------



## zensven42 (Oct 26, 2006)

Well, I will answer your question from nothing but personal experience.

My 2 older children have at one point nursed every night to sleep. I only stopped when they stopped asking for it. It was the last nursing time both of them weaned. They transitioned directly to sleeping through the night after self-weaning the bedtime nursing session.

Now, my 3yo DD goes to bed at bedtime between 9-10:30 pm and wakes sometime between 8 and 10AM. We have a teeth-brushing, book-reading bedtime ritual and then she happily goes to bed on her own.

My DS is 8yo and he goes to his room after book reading at bedtime and plays until he gets tired He then comes into the bedroom, crawls in his bunk, and goes to sleep ;sometimes early, sometimes late. He sleeps between 8-10 hours straight and then wakes on his own.

My 14mo DS still sometimes nurses to sleep, sometimes likes to be carried by my DH or DS until he falls asleep, and occasionally he just plays on the bed and then snuggles down next to us and falls asleep on his own. I expect he will be sleeping on his own by at most 3 years, but I am only judging that by my other 2 children. He might mean earlier or later depending on what he wants to do.

So to actually answer the question, nursing to sleep works wonderfully for us, combined with child led weaning. I believe children biologically NEED to nurse and have full access to the breast all night and day. I do not see how it could be wrong.

Kristin Skrydlak-Simlai


----------



## zensven42 (Oct 26, 2006)

Well, I will answer your question from nothing but personal experience.

My 2 older children have at one point nursed every night to sleep. I only stopped when they stopped asking for it. It was the last nursing time both of them meaned. They transitioned directly to sleeping through the night after self-weaning the bedtime nursing session.

Now, my 3yo DD goes to bed at bedtime between 9-10:30 pm and wakes sometime between 8 and 10AM. We have a teeth-brushing, book-reading bedtime ritual and then she happily goes to bed on her own.

My DS is 8yo and he goes to his room after book reading at bedtime and plays until he gets tired He then comes into the bedroom, crawls in his bunk, and goes to sleep ;sometimes early, sometimes late. He sleeps between 8-10 hours straight and then wakes on his own.

My 14mo DS still sometimes nurses to sleep, sometimes likes to be carried by my DH or DS until he falls asleep, and occasionally he just plays on the bed and then snuggles down next to us and falls asleep on his own. I expect he will be sleeping on his own by at most 3 years, but I am only judging that by my other 2 children. He might mean earlier or later depending on what he wants to do.

So to actually answer the question, nursing to sleep works wonderfully for us, combined with child led weaning. I believe children biologically NEED to nurse and have full access to the breast all night and day. I do not see how it could be wrong.

Kristin Skrydlak-Simlai


----------



## eliotsmommy (Mar 18, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TeresaZofia* 
There are books like the Baby Whisperer that will tell you to avoid nursing to sleep because then your baby will associate nursing with sleeping and then you run into a whole nightmare.

But in my experience, you don't really choose. Babies, especially newborns, tend to fall asleep while nursing.

Exactly!!! Other than avoiding nursing at all when a baby is due for some sleep, I don't know how you can STOP them from falling asleep at the breast. This is one of those ironies that I could never get past... Thanks for pointing that out!


----------



## eliotsmommy (Mar 18, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thefragile7393* 
I've honestly never gotten why it's a big deal or it's a bad habit (and why mother's obsess over "bad habits" in young babe!). Sure ds nursed to sleep, but he developmentally got to the point where he didn't NEED it to go to sleep, now he simply has it before he goes to sleep. It's just the natural process of things, eventually they grow out of it









That's GREAT to hear, that falling asleep on his own is probably something that he will just grow into. That is what I was hoping was true, but you know, you can start to second-guess yourself so easily when you listen to other experienced parents who say otherwise, and if someone has so much experience that they have written a book about it to the contrary, well... I just so easily fall into doubting my instincts. It's awesome to be able to come here to mothering.com and listen to all of you wonderful mamas talk about your experiences!


----------



## kikidee (Apr 15, 2007)

Thank you for this thread!! I needed to read all this. DD has always been sooooooooo attached to the boob, and recently I have started to wonder if she will ever fall asleep on her own. On Easter, she fell asleep in the car and then didn't wake up when transitioned to bed, so she ended up going 12 hours without nursing that day - the longest ever! I took that to mean she was starting the weaning process, so I thought I would start doing naptime weaning. I tried to not nurse her to sleep for her nap the next day and holy frijoles!! We still have an angry child two days later. She is acting out and yelling a lot and just being very demanding - totally not herself. I truly think it's because I tried to take that away from her too soon.

So reading all of this, about how she WILL stop wanting to nurse to sleep at some point is very reassuring. Because DH and I are kind of wondering if she will be breastfeeding when she goes off to kindergarten.







And I am half kidding!!


----------



## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

I nurse my 26-month-old to sleep, and it is one of these brilliant, simple things that make life really easy. He falls asleep quickly and happily in the evening, and if/when he wakes up during the night he is right back to sleep after a couple of minutes of nursing (we cosleep).

If he wakes up uncomfortably early in the morning I can usually nurse him to sleep again, and get another hour of two of sleep (I love sleeping).

Since I like having a comfortable life I have no plans to stop nursing him to sleep.


----------



## aprilv (Aug 31, 2007)

my ds is now 17 mos old and i too once struggled with this, put him down awake advice. i have heard some kids do well with this, but mine didn't. like all things, you have to know your child. one answer does not fit all! for us, it just wasn't worth it. why make bedtime a struggle?
now he will nurse for a while and then roll over, get comfy and fall asleep on his own. i find it exciting to see him developing this ability all on his own. it makes me feel happy that i let him get there when he was ready rather than forcing it and making bedtime an unhappy time.


----------



## rabbitmum (Jan 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aprilv* 
now he will nurse for a while and then roll over, get comfy and fall asleep on his own. i find it exciting to see him developing this ability all on his own. it makes me feel happy that i let him get there when he was ready rather than forcing it and making bedtime an unhappy time.

Yeah, that's what my son does too, I forgot to say. He doesn't usually fall asleep with the nipple in his mouth anymore. So I agree, I don't really see the point in removing the breast just as they are getting nice and comfy and sleepy, just to teach them something that they will do by themselves in their own time anyway.


----------



## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 

My dd always nursed to sleep. She stopped needing it all the time at around 2.5 yrs. Still when she naps she usually nurses down









Yes but you don't have a frequent waker. Some people who do have found that NOT nursing to sleep helps (not me! nursing to sleep never made a difference although comforting BACK to sleep without nursing made all the difference in the world).


----------



## newmama8824 (Jul 8, 2007)

guess it just depends on the baby....

ds is almost 3 months... sometimes he nurses to sleep, other times I just swaddle him and rock him & off he goes... Just depends. Its just w/e works fr you & babe.


----------



## Mommy2Haley (Oct 25, 2007)

DD is just about 12 months and nurses to sleep for naps and bedtime ... most of the time. If Daddy is home she wants to be held and sung to by DH; if he's at work it's nursing. She recently started sleeping longer stretches w/o nursing back to sleep. If she does nurse she gets her fill, pushes away from me, and rolls away. Seeing her back is so wonderful when *I* want to sleep on my tummy.

It's been a process of developmental changes in DD to get t o this point. Sometimes I worry but overall I just go with the flow.


----------



## Danielle13 (Oct 31, 2007)

in our house bf = sleep. If they weren't supposed to fall asleep while bfing why would God/nature made it so they get so sleepy?! answer that Baby Whisperer author!

Danielle*


----------



## thixle (Sep 26, 2007)

31 months, usually sleeps all night, then demands a boobie for breakfast. Nurses to sleep 25 days out of the month-- usually drops the nipple and rolls over first







Those other 5 days, i realize my baby isn't going to be a baby much longer.
Oh, and she naps just fine at preschool without a boobie- but wants mommy when I'm available.

... Can i also add that she has NO cavities. At all. So I just don't believe the breastmilk/nighttime link to cavities...


----------



## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

FWIW, for awhile (around 6 months) DD was happy to be put down drowsy with a paci and blanky in her crib and put herself to sleep. interestingly, around this same time, she had more nightwakings than EVER (and co-slept after the first waking for the rest of the night). "drowsy but awake" had no positive effect on her sleep WHATSOEVER.

she quickly stopped being willing to go down on her own, which was fine. we went back to nursing to sleep, except she is also lately happy to lie down and snuggle with DH tear-free and go right to sleep









anyway, now she is co-sleeping full-time (won't sleep in the crib at all anymore), and she nurses throughout the night, but is waking way less than when she did drowsy but awake. so from my personal experience, i would say the whole "sleep association" thing is pretty much a crock.

YMMV, as always, however.

ETA: also wanted to say that personally i am thankful she nurses to sleep. most babies DO need parenting back to sleep at night, and it is a whole hell of a lot easier to pop a boob in the mouth and relax than it would be to nurse then get up to rock or whatever.

so yeah, nursing to sleep is more of a hassle than the magical babe who just goes to sleep all by themselves. but that's not really a reality in 99% of cases. so it's a false comparison. the real comparison is between nursing to sleep and something else to sleep, and IMO at 3 am when you've been woken from a deep sleep, nursing is much easier than most anything else you could be called upon to do!


----------



## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

My guy is almost 4. From his very first milky meal at about an hour old, he has been voracious. He nursed to sleep for almost every single sleep-time until he was into his 3s.

But there were times he did not. From the beginning he has been very attached to DH, more so than most of my friends' husbands with their babies in the beginning, and DH has always been an integral part of the sleeptime process (my guy fights sleep like I did as a child, so it's definitely a *process*). Therefore, every so often as a baby he would fall asleep while being walked or rocked by DH, and as he got older, that sllooooowllly increased in frequency.

Nowadays he will usually fall asleep at night just with DH talking to him and hanging out with him. Every so often I have to come in when DS is having an excited day, or when DH keeps falling asleep, snoring, and waking up DS. But that's getting rarer and rarer.

In January, I actually was away for a night, and although they had to set up 'camp' in the living room to get to sleep, DS did just fine (he moved them into the bedroom once DS was fully asleep).

For us it has been a process. But I've never had the fear that it wouldn't "work". I think it helps that I myself was nursed until I was 4, and that my half-sister went beyond 4 years old, and both of us are perfectly capable of falling to sleep by ourselves (though if someone is there I tend to talk myself to sleep, LOL...which is better than when I was a toddler and usually had to HURT myself to get tired enough!). Since I AM a "success" story, I know that it can happen. (and I was weaned forcibly when my younger brother self-weaned and my mom had to go to work, I didn't even *choose* to stop!)

Since I knew that I knew better, I just never bothered reading those books. DS wasn't a perfect sleeper, ohhhhh not at all...but I always just figured that they were being silly and that doing what felt, well, mammalian would serve us the best.

Hugs to you!


----------



## Millicent (Mar 22, 2008)

Marc Weissbluth's Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Baby says there is nothing wrong with nursing to sleep and that it is natural! What he says matters more than anything is keeping a consistent bedtime routine and making sure they get enough quality rest.

I try to vary the way I put mine down just so she isn't wholly dependent on me. Tonight I gave her a bottle of water (she mostly chews on it) then put her on her belly in my bed and rubbed her back. Other times we nurse to sleep or I let my hubby bounce her down. I haven't had to leave her much yet but may have to in the future so it will be nice that she can fall asleep without me.


----------



## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Unless she's teething or ill my DD usually unlatches and then sprawls out after nursing. She's 27 months, but she's been doing it for about a year. She looks asleep, so who knows. Oh and she likes to prop her feet up on our legs and back. I always nurse her to sleep, we'll stop after she weans herself.
The one time I was at the hospital all night with a friend who was in labor my DH was able to get our DD to sleep, he gave her a bottle of my milk. She did fine with just him.


----------



## mom2miranda (Mar 13, 2008)

I continue to nurse my dd to sleep and when she wakes at night. It is a lot easier for both you and the child. I tried for a while to "teach" her how to go to sleep. It was weeks of hassel and crying. I finally realized that she needed to nurse to calm down. Babies get really overstimulated during the day and need that time to get centered. Nursing at night is also comforting to the baby and lets him know that you are still his mom and are there for him even though it is night time. I know parents who put their babies in the crib and if they cry in the night, they just let them and don't go in the room. I don't understand that. It is like telling the kid that you will only be a parent during the day and you are on your own at night. I know it is hard and exhausting, but this will pass and you will miss this time you share. I suggest you read some posts in the CLW section. It will give you encouragement as many of those moms are still nursing their 3-4 yo at night. I dont think this is causing any harm.


----------

