# A daughter is a daughter for life, a son is a son til he takes a wife?



## DaisyRose (Feb 13, 2005)

The mourning two genders thread got me thinking about the old adage "a daughter is a daughter for life, a son is a son 'til he takes a wife."

I have two girls and will be absolutely thrilled if the next one is a girl, too. In my mind, daughters represent the future. I know if I had a son, I would have to assume that when he married, he would be closer to his wife's family, especially after they had children. It would only be natural for her to become even closer with her mother, and not me. Which is not to say we couldn't have a warm and loving relationship, just that she would likely be closer to her mom.

I think my daughters will always remain close to me, especially since we are an AP family and don't have a lot of the anger and detachment issues other families experience.

Any thoughts from moms of sons? Is this something you think about? Is this part of the reason you might mourn a daughter?


----------



## Embee (May 3, 2002)

I didn't post on the other thread yet. My whole life I wanted ONE child and always imagined it would be a girl. DH always imagined himself with a DD. Well, when they held the babe up to us in the hospital DH and I looked at each other and I exclaimed, "Our girl has a penis!" We laughed really hard, and were immediately in love. We have never looked back and have never longed for a girl... It's surprising to me, actually. We are supremely attached, and happy the way things have turned out.









I don't believe in the old addage really. One of the things that attracted me to DH, was his love, respect and devotion to his mom, even when she drove him crazy. When DH and I married, we actually lived just down the street from her and also DH's sister and DH--family compound!







MIL was my greatest champion--DH would often go to her for advice when he was feeling anxious about our newlywedishness, and she would always tell him, "Go and do something nice for your wife, and then see how you feel." My MIL and I had a stellar, loving, mother/daughter relationship and when she died I was just as devastated as DH and his sisters. I am incredibly close to DH's family and while we spend time with my family also, we tend to enjoy or time with his family more.. similar values, social beliefs, good conversation, we have a ton of fun together. With my family, while we do have fun, but its much more work just to be together and enjoy--lots of baggage. I love my mom very much, but in my adult life and since becoming a parent myself, our relationship has changed. I see things in her that really bother me, truly upset me and yet, I see that she has had a hard life as well. I have empathy, compassion and great love for her, but I don't exactly long to spend time with her as I did as a young person when she was too busy to do so. *sigh*

I think this is just another one of those things that depends upon your situation. I hope that the relationship DH and I are cultivating with DS will help DS to know that we can always been a close family, and when he marries, we look forward to growing our family again.









The best,
Em


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I agree with the PP - I think this is a "depends on the family" issue, not a gender issue.

My parents moved away from both of their families when I was young, so there was no gender attachment there. My dad and his brother took care of their mom financially until she died. We knew both sets of grandparents, but neither was significantly involved in our lives as kids.

Dh and I are close to both of our parents. We live close to all of them, and see them quite a bit. If we don't see dh's mom as much as mine it's because my mom works part-time and can come over during the week, and dh's mom works constantly (real estate agent).

And it also comes down to personality. Both are supportive of our parenting choices, but MIL is more mainstream in everything she does.

I have every intention of being close to my sons as they grow up, and can't imagine feeling closer to a girl if I had one. I like being the only girl in the house - makes me feel special







. I am totally aware that my sons may move away, may marry someone I don't like, etc. But that is the case with any close family member - heck, I worry about who my little sister will end up with because like dh says, it's someone he has to sit down to Thanksgiving with every year.

But the same is equally true for daughters. If we're talking about stereotypical gender roles, then daughters would likely move away with their husband to follow his job. I know many girls who have moved away from their families, even overseas, once they met someone and got married. I know girls who are close to their moms, and girls who aren't. Same for boys.

I guess the short answer is yes, I have thought about this, but not in terms of boys vs. girls.


----------



## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

In all the cases I've seen, the family is closer to the wife's family of origin, and the grown-up daughter is DEFINATLY closer to her mother than the grown-up son is to his mother. My sil did follow my brother to a city two states away, but not to a city that my parents live in. They go to her town for holidays; she keeps in regular contact with her family and so they know more about her and my brothers' lives than we do (my brother rarely calls or e-mails and when he does it is a "just checking in - I love you" kinda call; I hear from sil 20X more).

Why?

Girls are brought up to do social work (it is usually wives who send thank-you notes, wives who buy family presents, wives who keep in contact). Perhaps if we teach our sons that social work (and it is work) is important work, they will do it more when they grow up.

But then, honestly, I wouldn't be too cool if dh was super close to his mom or even as close to her as I am to my mom. It would feel weird. I guess we've got to change just that kind of bias too







.


----------



## mamalisa (Sep 24, 2002)

I think it's circumstances too.

I am extremely close to my dad, even closer now than when I got married. My dh on the other hand has slowly pushed his family out of his life over the last 10 years. Their actions are the reason he's left then behind, but I have to say that I had a lot to do with it. I helped him become a stronger person, to realize his parent's family was not his responsibility to finance. That made the inlaws angry







. We've been together since he was 21 so the progression was made after he married. But either way, it would have happened. I think it's just easier to blame it on the wife


----------



## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

its just the opposite in my family. Dh is **** close to his family seeing them almost daily. we see my family occaisionally. about once every year or so. I much more identify with his family. his borthers seem to split pretty evenly between families.


----------



## mother culture (Oct 19, 2004)

I always get offended when I hear that "girls are easy" girls are more attached" but I think that I do worry that all of the parenting I do will be for my sons future wives benifit. It is my goal to help my sons respect women and parenthood and their mothers! I am = in love with my mother in law who had 3 boys. I am her first "daughter" but her son (my husband) is still devoted to his family and mine! I like to think that my sons will hold me close to their hearts!


----------



## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

Growing up, I was always much, much closer to my maternal grandmother than my paternal grandparents. And, we are much, much closer to my family than to my in-laws. When we first got married, we lived very close to my in-laws, yet were still closer to my family (talked to them on the phone more, confided in them more). We actually spent a year living near the same city my in-laws live in, and still actually spent more time with my family (even though we only saw them 2x/year on vacation) and talking with my family on the phone. When I got pregnant with dd2 (after having a m/c 6 weeks earlier), the only people we told were my family. We didn't tell the in-laws or any friends until 11-12 weeks or so. Now, we have moved up north to be near my family (even though it would make more "sense" to live near the in-laws since the cost of living is much lower there, we choose to live up here where it is more expensive to be near my family, and will never move back south. So, for us the old adage, defintiely holds true.


----------



## Diane~Alena (Aug 23, 2004)

In my family that saying has meaning. I never realy new my dad family at all. I am very close with my mothers family. My mother has three girls and two boys the boys are distant even thought they live just a town away and her girls incuding me are very close to her. I have three girls and one boy, I have no fear that my son will go with his wifes family one day because I know he will still have to put up with me, I will give him no choice lol.


----------



## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

I read a study that said that that in countries with high child/infant mortality rates, the presense of a maternal grandmother in a child's life directly correlates with a decrease in child mortality. Presence of a paternal grandmother actually correlates with an increase in mortality??

I don't know why.


----------



## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamawanabe*
I read a study that said that that in countries with high child/infant mortality rates, the presense of a maternal grandmother in a child's life directly correlates with a decrease in child mortality. Presence of a paternal grandmother actually correlates with an increase in mortality??

I don't know why.


Geez I hope not. I have all boys. LOL!

I plan to be the MIL my DILs will love. I will not insist they be up our butts all of the time for all holidays. I will consider they have family too. I will not interfere in the marriages of my children. I will be there if needed, but will not interfere with raising of my grandchildren. Even if I totally dislike any DIL I might get, I will be nice and treat her respectfully. I will also remember the world does not revolve around me or our family. I will remember that THEY are a family now, and the priority. I will raise my sons to put their wives first.

In short, I will treat my DILs better than I was treated.


----------



## Laurel (Jan 30, 2002)

I have a son and I don't worry about this at all. I think if I just focus on having a good, healthy relationship with him all the rest will work out on it's own.

I have four brothers and for the most part, they are just as close to my mom and our side of the family as their wives are to their moms/their sides of the family. I only have one brother where things have been more strained, and honestly, it's 85% because of his wife and her issues with my mom and our family. IMO my mom is about the most fabulous mother-in-law you could have, and my other sil's have expressed the same sentiment. She loves everyone equally, shows interest in them and their families, and stays out of business that's not hers.

As a child growing up, I think my parents were equally close to their parents. They focused a lot on trying to make things fair and spend equal time with both families. My mom tries really hard to do the same with her children and grandchildren (my dad is deceased).

I feel that I am closer to my family than my dh is to his, but that is more of an emotional thing. We actually spend equal time with both and perhaps even err on spending more time with dh's family because they are nearer to us. But I think I am emotionally closer to my family. However, I think this has more to do with personalities in both families than it does with gender. My dh would say that he is very close to his family, and he is--it just manifests itself differently.


----------



## dharmamama (Sep 19, 2004)

I think it depends on the families and the individuals involved, not on the gender of those involved.

Namaste!


----------



## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle*

In short, I will treat my DILs better than I was treated.











There is a woman at work who can't stand her son's (mid-twenties) girlfriend (thinks she is holding him back etc). I try to gently tell her she's gotta be nice and NEVER say anthing bad about the girlfreind to her son. He WILL tell his girlfreind what she said, and if they end up together, dil will never forget . . .









It must be hard to move from the woman with all the power (mom) to the woman with no power (since wife has all the power). We never have to stop being the most powerfull woman in our daughters' lives (even if she is partnered with a woman, that seems true). ??


----------



## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

I think it really depends on the family. With us, it is true that I'm closer with my mom than dh is with his parents. But I think that stems from the fact that it was only my mom and I (dh is one of 5 kids) and that dh's parents are a little crazy. But I know for some of my parents, their boyfriends (no one is married yet, except me, lol) are closer with their parents than they are.


----------



## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I will also say it depends on the people rather than gender.

I have 2 siblings- 1 brother, 1 sister. My brother is kind of kept away from our side of the family by his wife. My sister spends much more time with her in-laws than with our parents because her dh wants them to. My siblings both married kind of controlling people. I spend the most time with our parents.

My dh is closest to his mom. They talk on the phone regularly and we visit when we can. He has sisters and is probably more reliably in contact with her than they are. MIL has a lot going on though and is still raising a child. His parents divorced and both re-married and had more children. We don't spend as much time with dh's family as with mine. He isn't really closer to my parents than his own. I think he was more distant from his own family before we married though because of the divorce and stuff.


----------



## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

When my PIL had their 50th anniversary a few years back, I spent 2 days on my feet, a week after a miscarriage, helping prepare food for their party. I traveled 1000 miles. I was nice and polite. Guess what I got in return?

1. The night before the party DH and his siblings went out to dinner with the parents and excluded the spouses. "Family" only, it was stated. Hmmmm.

2. MIL told me my miscarriage was nothing more than a "missed period".

3. We were expected to drop all other plans for that visit and go to a birthday party for DH's great nephew. We already had other plans. I told MIL and she snottily said, "Well, I will speak to DH then." I told her to have at it. DH knew he better not mess with me on that one.

4. One SIL tried to tell DH that I shouldn't be left behind at MIL's house alone while they had their "exclusionary dinner", but should be made, after being sleep deprived and on my feet all day, to wait in the car with my 4 and 3 yr old children. Because she said I might snoop or steal something. She tried to tell him I snooped in her house several years before, which was a freaking LIE. He told her to get bent.

5. The spouses of the siblings were not thanked for their efforts to make the party a nice one. We were treated like hired help.

6. WHile clean up was going on, I sat down for a MINUTE, and a neice came out and told me I had to go clean up in the kitchen.

And DH wonders why I hate his family and only tolerate them in small doses.


----------



## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Holy Crap Tinkerbell. I can't believe your husband still does things with that family. You think he would fl for his life. I would be talkig to dh about how he had better stand up for me at the next family gathering. and if he wouldn't tell him to have fun and that you will see him when he gets home.


----------



## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

I am actually closer to MIL. And I have to say I don't entirely agree with that old adage. I mean, in a way-yes. Because women tend to need each other and daughters always need mothers,etc. So, I may agree in terms of influence. BUT- I don't see that mothers have an ongoing right to butt in with daughters. I can see how the mother-son ties need to be somewhat broken for marriage.....and more of a relationship and duty to his wife instead of mother.

I don't really know what I am saying,lol, guess I am rambling now. :LOL


----------



## DaisyRose (Feb 13, 2005)

Wow, Tinkerbell, that sounds perfectly awful. My IL's tried the "it's only for family" thing, too. They wanted a family picture of dh, dds and the two of them. I was supposed to stay at home, because I'm not "technically" family.









Needless to say, dh's parents are very careful now about excluding me from the definition of "family".

I just went to a baby shower for a really great friend's wife. Jeremy was best man at our wedding and we love Tracie, his new wife. They just had a baby, and Jeremy's mom, whom I quite like, was unbelievable! She acted like the baby was hers and Tracie was hired help.

It seems to me that mothers of sons have a tougher row to hoe than mothers of daughters. Mothers have to surrender ALL their influence and ALL the power over their sons when the son gets married, or risk alienating their DIL's. The DIL gets to set the rules. Period. The MIL, if she's smart, will follow her lead.

I guess that's why I would be happy to never have sons. It seems to me there are way more horrible MIL's than there are nice ones. I'd be horrified to find myself one of the detested ones.


----------



## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaisyRose*
Wow, Tinkerbell, that sounds perfectly awful. My IL's tried the "it's only for family" thing, too. They wanted a family picture of dh, dds and the two of them. I was supposed to stay at home, because I'm not "technically" family.









Needless to say, dh's parents are very careful now about excluding me from the definition of "family".

I just went to a baby shower for a really great friend's wife. Jeremy was best man at our wedding and we love Tracie, his new wife. They just had a baby, and Jeremy's mom, whom I quite like, was unbelievable! She acted like the baby was hers and Tracie was hired help.

It seems to me that mothers of sons have a tougher row to hoe than mothers of daughters. Mothers have to surrender ALL their influence and ALL the power over their sons when the son gets married, or risk alienating their DIL's. The DIL gets to set the rules. Period. The MIL, if she's smart, will follow her lead.

I guess that's why I would be happy to never have sons. It seems to me there are way more horrible MIL's than there are nice ones. I'd be horrified to find myself one of the detested ones.


Oh there are bad DILs too. I know that. But, I am the mother of all sons, so I will have to either learn to deal or risk losing my boys. I think I can be grown up enough to let them go their own way.

My mother has me and my sister and my brother. She does not have any power over me and says I am an adult and have to live my own life. She does not interfere in our marriage nor does she question how we parent. She did raise her eyebrows when I BF our first child, but it was simply foreign to her because her generation, for the most part, did not BF. But, she didn't harp on it, only asked questions.

I would probably be able to deal better if I could go visit ONCE and not have to field 20 questions and snide remarks.


----------



## andreac (Jul 13, 2003)

I wonder how much fear of that adage being true plays into it? Like, my mom is very secure in our relationship and so has had an easier time laying off as I've moved into adulthood. She still has some INFLUENCE on me, as someone who's opinion I respect, but (almost) never tries to exert POWER over me. When I discussed my hesitation about vaxing with her (she's a nurse), she gave me her point of view, but basically said she trusted that I would never do anything to harm my son. She respects me as an adult.

My MIL on the other hand, I think she's lived her whole parenting career (she's got 2 boys & no girls) fearing the days her son's would "leave her for another woman". She is completely insecure in their love for her and constantly feels the need to turn everything into a competition. We lived 10 blocks away from them for 10 YEARS and she would still find some reason to complain when we went to visit my family (who lived 4 hours away). She made huge deals about dividing the holidays "evenly", never once considering how lucky she was to have regular sunday dinners (at least once a month). My mom would have traded all the thanksivings in the world for a chance to really see her grandson grow up on weekly basis...but it's never enough for my MIL.

The crazy thing is that my DH is sooo devoted to his family, really bends over backwards to stay in touch and keep contact...even when they drive him totally nuts, he's always willing to cut them some slack and keep trying. But in her eyes...he's "left her for another woman".

Or take the vaxing thing, ever since she found out that Cole hasn't any shots since his 12 mo check up (about 18 months), she been slyly campaigning DH, sending articles...addressed specifically to him, offering to buy us health insurance (as if that's why we weren't vaxing him). Just really trying to undermine what was basicaaly MY parenting decision (since I'm the one who does all the research, but DH is totally supporitive). And then she wonders why I'm not all lovey-dovey towards her.









Anyway, that was a really whiney long winded way of saying I think that that saying is almost a self-fulfilling prophecy for people who buy into it...if parents of either gender aren't secure enough in their place in their children's hearts to willingly step aside for their child's partner...there will be issues.


----------



## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka*
Holy Crap Tinkerbell. I can't believe your husband still does things with that family. You think he would fl for his life. I would be talkig to dh about how he had better stand up for me at the next family gathering. and if he wouldn't tell him to have fun and that you will see him when he gets home.

But you see, I am always "over-reacting", or whatever. He knows they act like crumbs, but just cannot bring himself to admit it. It is the main bone of contention in our marriage. I do not want him to go see them alone, because then they get their way. Him and the kids without me. After the anniversary fiasco, I told DH how it was going to be. I told him I would never tell him to never see his family, but that I was no longer going to play nice. I would call people out on their behavior. I told him they already think I am a Biotch, so who cares.

Men, it seems , are usually the ones who are willing to sacrifice their wife's comfort to not upset "mommy". I hope to God I raise MY sons to be real men who put their wives first, as it should be.


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaisyRose*
It seems to me that mothers of sons have a tougher row to hoe than mothers of daughters. Mothers have to surrender ALL their influence and ALL the power over their sons when the son gets married, or risk alienating their DIL's. The DIL gets to set the rules. Period. The MIL, if she's smart, will follow her lead.

I guess that's why I would be happy to never have sons. It seems to me there are way more horrible MIL's than there are nice ones. I'd be horrified to find myself one of the detested ones.

If your daughter marries, you will still be a MIL! And many many men have plenty of issues with their MILs. Dh's sister's husband doesn't attend most family gatherings because he knows her parents disapprove of him. It has caused much strife between MIL and her daughter.

I disagree on many levels with this statement: "Mothers have to surrender ALL their influence and ALL the power over their sons when the son gets married, or risk alienating their DIL's." First of all, I don't want see my relationship with my children as one of influence and power. Yes, while they are growing up I have much influence over their lives, but as grown adults, I certainly hope that our relationship has much more depth than me telling him what to do with his life. I don't feel the need to have "control" over my grown children, so the idea of "losing" it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

My mom is a very important person in my life, but I have certainly had to address issues between her and dh. She doesn't have any control over my marriage or my relationship or my kids. Her very presence has influence over us, but so does my MIL's. And I'm happy to have both.

Really, I think it is so much more important to focus on the quality of the relationship you have with your children, of either gender, rather than worry about competing for control over them 20 years from now.


----------



## bleurae (Feb 25, 2005)

Maybe it is just me and my group but I see it almost opposite. In my view, all daughters "leave" their moms for a time, many come back but some do not. But a boys love for his mama.....wow that is pretty special and unlike anything. Not to say a daughters love isn't but I know growing up my brother and mom had a very special bond beyond what we had, it was more daddy's girl and mama's boy. I also have so many friends who are closer to the males parents than the females so I really think it is different with different people. I also think that when one puts stock in a certain belief they can become a self-fullfilling prophecy.
just my 2 bits.


----------



## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

I wonder if it works this way - wives still make most of the family decisions. I know that I am thw one that arranges holidays and trips, and I am thw one who has researched parenting practices. My dh has a say, but he mostly just goes along with my decisions (decisions that do take his inclinations into account). So might a mother feel closer to teh family of her dd because her dd is in charge of that family. A mother might not feel as close to a son's family because a child she did not raise (dil) is in charge of that family.

Inculcated gender roles seems the problem here. Why don't men, in general, make more of the family decisions? Just like women doing more than 50% of the housework, men taking less responsibility for the workings of the family and home have ramifications beyond harried wives . . .

So, in an extreme case, if our daughters' family decides to ff and cio, it may feel less frustrating to us because we'll feel like SHE is making the decision and thus we won't feel as alientaed by it (via her being our dd) than if our son's family does this (you'd feel like you have no say or influence as a child not yours, dil, is really making the decisions).


----------



## DaisyRose (Feb 13, 2005)

_Power_ and _influence_ don't seem to be quite the right words. It's not that I think I'll be able to interfere in my daughter's decisions, just that she will be likely to consult me, where I would not expect my DIL to consult me. I would expect her to consult HER mother.

Does that make sense?


----------



## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Wow, I have never heard of that adage and I don't believe it at ALL. I think it's all how you raise your children, how you model relationships and what the kid/parent personalities are. Quite honestly, I believe it's a sexist assumption, based on the idea that the son's wife is the one most involved with the children and family relationships and that the son is just "yes, dear-ing" and cluelessly following around.

I'm not overly close to my mother and I'm a girl. My husband talks to his mother (who lives overseas, no less) as much or more often than I talk to mine. Yup, he actually picks up the phone of his own accord, dials her number with no nagging or guilt-tripping, and talks to her...by himself! He knows what our kids are up to and he talks to his parents about that. He writes emails, sends pictures and even buys Mother's Day cards but not before having the kids decorate them.

What's the deal? Men can do these things. Many men actually do these things.

I would never expect a child of mine to be closer to me in life because the child had a vagina. Seriously. It's old-fashioned cultural conditioning.

I have two sons and I don't expect them to have stronger bonds with DILs' families. My dh is not. My kids are not naturally closer to my Mom, even though she lives locally. I'm not closer to my Mom than dh is to his. We're all people and I refuse to let old-fashioned gender stereotypes determine this sort of thing.

I have no mourning over no daughters. Truth be known, if I were forced to choose gender of future kids, I'd pick more boys. Having a girl is no guarantee that you'll be close or even have much to talk about. Having a boy is no guarantee that you won't be very close friends someday.


----------



## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaisyRose*
The DIL gets to set the rules. Period.









: I'm glad my husband and I are a partenership and that neither of us rules the other. Additionally, I have zero interest in holding power or influence over my adult children. I think I stumbled into the wrong thread, because this a bit way too "out there" for me.


----------



## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Gender roles have real ramifications. If our sons see their mothers doing most of the housework, doing most if the parenting research, making most of the decisions about what food is bought and cooked, making most of the vacation and holiday plans, doing most of the christmas shopping, buying most of the kids' clothes, bringing him to the doctor and giving him medication most of the time, he will grow up thinking that it isn't as manly to do these things. His sister will grow up thinking it is natural for her and not her dh to do these things. The son will abdicate a lot of the family and household decisions to his wife and the daughter will assume a lot of these decisions on her own. This will have ramifications for how connected ds's family is to his family of origin as compared to his dw's family of origin. It isn't a matter of power/influence so much as connection. Dw's mother will feel more connected to Dw's family because dw will be the one making the important day-to-day family/household decisions. Dh's mother/family will just be a little further out of the loop, a little further removed.

Not always. Other variables come into play (and there are a lot of them).

But I think this thread has reminded me how much I need to have a REAL partnership with my dh about this daily living stuff (we are equal partners with it comes to big decisions - but the day-to-day stuff he gives over to me).

And yes this thread is built on a host of gender (and heterosexual) norms. But these nroms are out there; they may even be operating in our own families, and talking about them and how to alter them isn't a bad thing.


----------



## mags (May 4, 2004)

Actually, in asian cultures, once the woman marries, they are supposed to become part of the husband's family. So, when I got married, naturally my mom freaked out that I would be closer to my in laws than I would be to my own parents. However, the opposite has occured, b/c my mil is a freak and mil from hell. I think my mil really felt that my sil and I would just become her toadies once we married into the family and she expected us to do EVERYTHING that she wanted and not question her judgement at all (hard to do since she has HORRIBLE judgement and most often makes poor choices). We were NOT treated with any sort of respect, always blamed if something were to go wrong (she never accepted the fact that maybe her precious sons could be in the wrong), never thanked for anything that we did, she would not ask us to come to certain holidays/occasions, but demand or guilt us into it, etc.. My mil has two sons and she has not only managed to push her dils away, but her sons away too, b/c she still feels that she should be the #1 woman in their lives








. I really think it depends on each person's situation. If your mil is very overbearing, chances are you are not going to get along with her, and it doesn't help there is a stereotype that mil's can be a PITA. My own mother often drives me crazy too... but I think it's often easier to be forgiving of your own family (blood), than your in laws.


----------



## andreac (Jul 13, 2003)

DaisyRose - If were expecting any parental consultations of course I wouldn't expect my DIL to come to me over her own mother, I would assume if the had questions or wanted my advice, that it would be my son to come to me...the same way his wife would naturally go to her mother. I think the difference is that you seem to be assuming that the son has no influence whereas I hope that my son will have a balanced partnership with his future spouse. I don't mean to seem like I'm picking on you...I"m really not, it just seems like we're working from a different base of expectations.


----------



## DaisyRose (Feb 13, 2005)

Good point, andreac. Your *son* would be the one to call you up and ask for advice. I don't personally know a lot of husband's who have that sort of relationship with their own mothers, but I recognize that the relationship between parents and children in the previous generation was fairly adversarial, and sadly, still is for many families.

My dh tried to include his mom in our family when we had our first child, but she was a CIO'ing, spanking, oatmeal at six weeks and no breastfeeding kind of mainstream mom, and she hated our choices. And blamed them on me, of course.

I can see that AP families might have very different kinds of relationships with their children, sons or daughters. That would be nice, but it still kind of scares me to think of myself as the paternal MIL.

And I want to clarify that I didn't mean the DIL is the sole decision maker in a _marriage_, but rather that the DIL's decisions regarding her family (presumambly made in partnership with her dh) must be respected by the MIL, no matter what.

That's certainly how I feel in my family. My dh and I made the decision to keep our extended family bed. My MIL's feelings on this subject are not required. She has no input into the matter. Zero. End of story.


----------



## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaisyRose*
Good point, andreac. Your *son* would be the one to call you up and ask for advice. I don't personally know a lot of husband's who have that sort of relationship with their own mothers, but I recognize that the relationship between parents and children in the previous generation was fairly adversarial, and sadly, still is for many families.

My dh tried to include his mom in our family when we had our first child, but she was a CIO'ing, spanking, oatmeal at six weeks and no breastfeeding kind of mainstream mom, and she hated our choices. And blamed them on me, of course.

I can see that AP families might have very different kinds of relationships with their children, sons or daughters. That would be nice, but it still kind of scares me to think of myself as the paternal MIL.

And I want to clarify that I didn't mean the DIL is the sole decision maker in a _marriage_, but rather that the DIL's decisions regarding her family (presumambly made in partnership with her dh) must be respected by the MIL, no matter what.

That's certainly how I feel in my family. My dh and I made the decision to keep our extended family bed. My MIL's feelings on this subject are not required. She has no input into the matter. Zero. End of story.

Ok, I understand where you're coming from a bit more now. Thank you for clarifying.







The only thing I'm still confused on, however, is your last point (example of family bed). My mother has zero input into my parenting decisions as well. I don't see the difference between the MIL and dd's mother in this situation.


----------



## andreac (Jul 13, 2003)

DaisyRose - I do know what you are saying and definately know of some families like that, but in my personal experience, with my DH and with my brothers, the men are pretty equally likely to go to their families with a question as the daughters are to go to theirs. I tend to like to do my own research and rarely ask my mom parenting questions, whereas my DH likes to hear from those who've been there, done that and is far more likely to ask both my parents AND his parents.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *daisyrose*
My dh and I made the decision to keep our extended family bed. My MIL's feelings on this subject are not required. She has no input into the matter. Zero. End of story.

But wouldn't the same be true of your mother's feelings on the subject?? MY FAMILY's (and by family I mean DH and I and our son) decisions are final on any given subject must be respected by both our respective families. I would find it just as insulting if my mother questioned a decision I made as if my MIL did the same.


----------



## andreac (Jul 13, 2003)

Oops, cross posted with left field


----------



## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Coming back to this..I'm thinking that, in terms of closeness with adult children, that I don't see it tied to input or influence. I see it coming out of mutual respect, healthy boundaries and shared interests. We tend to vacation with my ILs, because we have very similar interests. My parents, OTOH, are homebodies. In many ways, it's easier to talk to my ILs simply because we seem to have a lot of similar interests, read the same type of books, etc. I enjoy their company and they are really hands-off their children (i.e. no unsolicited advice), so it's just stress-free. I think it's easy for my husband and me to get close to them for these reasons.

My parents are wonderful people too. But I had to enforce some boundaries with them and it's affected our relationship a bit. Also, they wanted me to do all the leg-work in the relationship, like always go to their house and always call. When I stopped doing it all, they didn't visit or call much, but there was a lot of complaining about not seeing us. With them, the guilt that they induced to try to create closeness was actually the thing that got in the way. Also, we don't share interests, for the most part.

So, I'm seeing this from a different angle than power and influence. I'm thinking that my boys will be as close to me as girls would if I treat them respectfully and honor their boundaries. Also, some shared interests wouldn't hurt. Finally, they will have learned from their Dad how to phone family members, choose cards for them and do some logistical leg-work in the relationship dept so that they don't dump it off on their partners.


----------



## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

I've been thinking about the talk about power, influence and control applied to mothers and their children and the adult children controlling their spouses.
I think it definitely is a factor in many people's relationships but it is very unhealthy IMO.

My siblings both married controlling people and it does affect their relationship with our family. Some of it could come from their relationships with their parents. I don't know if sil's mom is controlling- I think it is mainly sil wanting to control everyone. I do know that bil's mother is extremely controlling of her children. She is the mil who redecorates the house, visits whenever and treats my sister like she doesn't matter.
My parents are not controlling people or overinvolved in their children's marriages or parenting. They are very supportive of us but don't try to influence us even when they don't agree. My mil is also not a controlling person. I get along well with her.

I don't think either my dh or I have more power, influence or control over each other. We tend to discuss things and come to decisions together. If dh wants to call/visit his family I'm happy about it because family is important to me and I'm happy they are important to him too.


----------



## DaisyRose (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *andreac*

But wouldn't the same be true of your mother's feelings on the subject?? MY FAMILY's (and by family I mean DH and I and our son) decisions are final on any given subject must be respected by both our respective families. I would find it just as insulting if my mother questioned a decision I made as if my MIL did the same.


Absolutely. But I would be more likely to talk to my mother about our decision. Not in terms of asking for advice, just chatting, you know? I probably wouldn't mention it at all to my MIL.

I think a pp's idea about respecting boundaries is right on the money. My mom is more likely to respect my boundaries, but we have had a long, long relationship, whereas I've only known dh's mother for a (relatively) short period of time.

Again, I'm beginning to think being AP (which is a very respectful parenting style to begin with, in my opinion) sets up parents to have close, respectful relationships with their adult children. Another reason AP is such a great choice?









Dr. Sears two sons write over on his website, and they often mention how their mom participates in their life, and holds the baby and helps their wives, so maybe it can be a great relationship. I still think the MIL/DIL relationship is a difficult one.


----------



## William's Mom (Oct 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Laurel*
I have a son and I don't worry about this at all. I think if I just focus on having a good, healthy relationship with him all the rest will work out on it's own.









:


----------



## andreac (Jul 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaisyRose*
My mom is more likely to respect my boundaries, but we have had a long, long relationship, whereas I've only known dh's mother for a (relatively) short period of time.

...snip...
I still think the MIL/DIL relationship is a difficult one.

See I think my mom is more likely to cross my boundries than she is my brothers' probably becuase she is more worried about offendng my SILs than she is about me...cause I have to love her :LOL Don't get me wrong, overall she's great from both a daughter's and a DIL's perspective, but I definately get her opinion more freely than my SIL's do.

I absolutely agree, see my first post on this thread :LOL. I have a pretty horrible relationship with my own MIL. I just think the In-Law relationships in general, _regardless of gender_ can be tough. You are expected to treat these people like family, despite only knowing them for a relatively short time.


----------



## Embee (May 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaisyRose*
I guess that's why I would be happy to never have sons. It seems to me there are way more horrible MIL's than there are nice ones. I'd be horrified to find myself one of the detested ones.











I'm sure you didn't mean this to be offensive, but it hurt to read it. As the overjoyed mother of a son, and one who happens to be reasonably mature (i.e., I would never dream of not following the lead of my DIL, and I intend to be a friend whomever she turns out to be). In light of my post and the several others here that suggested that its PEOPLE and CIRCUMSTANCES not gender that make these situations what they are, I would think it would have shed some light and hopefully put to rest the old addage.

Because of who my MIL was, I can't wait for the opportunity to behold a DIL in the same way. I have a SMIL who is pretty great. I can't say her actions are always to my liking (neither are my own moms for that matter), but her intention is to love DS with all her heart. Now that you mention it, she was in fact, rather "overly" when he was a baby, but I never took offense. I just kept thinking what a lucky kid DS was to have two sets of grandparents who love him and lots of Aunts and Uncles too. How blessed DH and I were to have so much support on both sides.









The best,
Em


----------



## momatheart23 (May 25, 2002)

As a proud mother of sons I have to chime in defense here as I love having boys and do not desire a daughter as I though I would before I had them. See I had all these visions of having a girl, but once I had my sons don't even want anything else. See I think that adage is only there because of the way boys are traditionally raised in the society where the mom is supposed to force separation from him and make him "be a man". Conscientious mothers who aren't buying into that outdated way of thinking aren't having the same relationship. My mother and brother are extremely close and his fiance is closer to our family than she is to her own. Boys bonding looks different than girls, but that does not make it any less strong. A wonderful book for anyone who wants to educate themselves on boys is Real Boys; rescuing our sons from the myths of boyhood. I am proud to be raising a new generation of men, in touch with all aspects of his nature, masculine and feminine.


----------



## nicole lisa (Oct 27, 2004)

I'm not a DIL, but am friends with DP's parents and I think he gets on with my family extremely well (as I do with his). Maybe it's because both our families respect us as adults and our relationship and our ability to make the best decision for ourselves, but there have never been "in-law" situations on either side. We all enjoy each other's company and have never been expected to consult either set on anything. Mostly we all talk about the world.

I can't imagine it would be much different for DS and whoever he's with, other than I don't automatically assume his partner choice will result in a DIL for DP and I.


----------



## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:

I can't imagine it would be much different for DS and whoever he's with, other than I don't automatically assume his partner choice will result in a DIL for DP and I.








:

What if he's gay? Or what if one of your daughters is a transman? What if your daughter takes a wife?

We never know who our children will be...


----------



## Mountaingirl3 (May 21, 2005)

I agree with those who say it's the people, not the gender!

Our family is just as close to my in-laws as my parents. I love being a DIL--it's all the fun parts of the mother/daughter relationship without the baggage :LOL . My mother-in-law is crazy about our kids, and goes out of her way to compliment my parenting. She's not perfect (of course) but she's upbeat and open-minded and gets so much joy out of being with us. I hope to have a similar bond with my son's future wife (or potentially, my daughters' future wives).

I'm very close to my mom (and dad), too, but they don't get preferential treatment. We equally divide our vacation, alternate holidays, etc. I can honestly say that we nuture the kids' relationships with all four grandparents equally.


----------



## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Ugh...the very thought that my mother might think that she owns me for the rest of my life and that she is above my MIL in the hierarchy makes me feel like throwing up.

That adage sounds more threatening than warm and fuzzy to me.

But then again, I grew up in a very controlling/domineering/rage-filled/pecking-order household. So the thought of being shackled like that again just makes me ill.

I think that if you expect your relationship with your DIL to be bad, you'll find a way to make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Thankfully, my MIL not only is respectful but she is also *inclusive*. She has always been respectful of my mom (wish I could say the same of my mom towards her--not face to face, understand, but in a very passive aggressive way to me) but NEVER has left me out because she assumed that I "belonged" to my mother.

But my god, I would never dream of assuming my daughter is "mine" in some way my sons are not. They're each their own person. Nobody owns them, not me, not DH, not their future partners. I know my future good, trusting relationship with them depends on how I treat them and act towards them ever day, not because of biology.

Frankly, I also would be disappointed in Fiona if she decided that her MIL was not even worth talking to about the kids but I was (unless we're talking widely divergent views here or something). Her MIL would be just as much a part of those kids as I would, and should not be shut out just because she is the mother of Fiona's partner. And why on earth would I want to insult and hurt my son-in-law (or daughter-in-law, as the case may be) by claiming my daughter as my territory?

I think that adage reflects a strong societal myth though. I really really really wanted to invite my MIL into the delivery room with us when my daughter was born. But I didn't want to deal with my own mother (who I would not want in the room even if I was unconscious) unleashing her passive-aggressive (or outright) jealous rage over it because of how embarrassing that would be for her. (Even if she could just lie about it to her friends and no one would know) So I helped my mom save face, and lost some precious time with someone that I have grown to love as mentor, friend, and MIL and who would have been very helpful besides. Luckily MIL understands the dynamic (even if she's never--and wouldn't--say anything about it) and I know she wasn't offended.

I think I will be able to be a better MIL because of what Janet's taught me through example. I know it's definitely made me a better mother in general!


----------



## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

I've only read about half the thread, but here's my take as a mother of a girl and a boy.

I find my relationship to my dd is more bound up in my feelings about myself. I tend to see her in terms of the woman she will become or in terms of how certain characteristics influenced *my* life for good or ill as a girl. I have to consciously put this "baggage" aside over and over again in order to allow her to blossom into her own person. It makes me close to her in a way that is different (not better or worse -- just different) than how I am close to my ds. I _feel_ her hurts and joys more deeply than those of my ds because they bring back my own childhood. As another pp said, she represents the future to me more than my ds does. If/when she marries, I don't envision our relationship changing much. In fact, if she choses *not* to marry, our relationship will probably change more, because she will be following a different path than I took for my life. We wouldn't identify with each other as much. For my dd (and as a daughter myself) I think some of the same issues are at play. I represent the future to her as well, since she will grow to be a woman. I am her primary model of what it means to be a woman right now. How many times have I thought of ways in which I will try to be like my mom or *not* be like my mom? Many! How many times have I thought of how I will or will not be like my father -- a man? Not as often.

My relationship with my ds is more "in the moment". Our love for each other is simpler in a way. I am less likely to judge his actions or personality on the basis of how they will play out in the rest of his life. I feel less invested in how he "turns out", iykwim. Regardless of whether he marries or not, I expect that the process of separating from me will involve a deeper change in our relationship than will happen with my dd. Not that we won't remain close -- I hope we do, but I expect it will just be more of a _change_. I expect the change to be even greater if/when he marries. Again, not in a bad way, just different. I'm afraid I'm not being very clear, but the kids need me to attend to them.









As many have stated, a lot depends on the family. But as a general rule, I think the adage has some truth. I wouldn't take it to imply that a son abandons his mother when he marries, but that the mother/son relationship undergoes a bigger transformation than does the mother/daughter relationship upon marriage.

FWIW, I think the opposite often holds true for fathers with their sons and daughters. I see my dh having that kind of simple, pure, baggage-free love with our dd that I have with ds. It's a wonderful thing.







But as many sappy country songs attest, it changes when a little girl becomes a woman. She may still love her daddy very much, but the nature of the relationship changes.


----------



## hhurd (Oct 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama*







:

What if he's gay? Or what if one of your daughters is a transman? What if your daughter takes a wife?

We never know who our children will be...

You took the words out of my mouth...


----------



## DaisyRose (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *luv my 2 sweeties*
FWIW, I think the opposite often holds true for fathers with their sons and daughters. I see my dh having that kind of simple, pure, baggage-free love with our dd that I have with ds. It's a wonderful thing.







But as many sappy country songs attest, it changes when a little girl becomes a woman. She may still love her daddy very much, but the nature of the relationship changes.


I agree with this, too. For daughters, it's Daddy who will eventually have to move aside for another man. Fathers have to renegotiate their relationships with their daughters, just like mothers have to move aside for another woman and renegotiate their relationship with their son.

I find it sad that some posters think that it isn't possible to have influence over adult children without that influence being abusive, or that a desire to remain an influential part of your child's life is automatically pathological.


----------



## Mary-Beth (Nov 20, 2001)

Wow...interesting. I think it depends on the family and the issues (control issues,etc.) within the people involved in the family...not at all inherit to all mother-son / mother-daughter relationship. My family is much, much closer to my husbands side because they raised him with love & support...not perfect...but with the best of intentions always. They send cards, books, stickers, call on the phone, make visits. I never see it as a power issue between his mom & me. Before we were married she used to take her sons out to dinner "just the family" but once we were married I became part of the family. Sometimes I offer to take pictures of her & dh just as a mother child thing for her. I don't feel left out...I offer. She takes pictures of just us or just us with our kids. We do group pictures too!
I feel for those of you who struggle with in-laws, I really do.

I want my children to grow to become loving, attentive, caring partners. There's no need for that to get in the way of one's relationship with their Mom. I'm not very close to my Mom or Dad & wish I could be.
If anything I think they kind of see it as if I "married off." In many cultures the woman marries into the man's family & loses ties with her own, not vice versa.


----------



## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

DaisyRose said:


> For daughters, it's Daddy who will eventually have to move aside for another man.
> 
> 
> > Actually, it doesn't seem to work that way. Just like it wouldn't work that way for a mother and a gay daughter (the mother of a daughter partnered to a woman isn't in the same marginal position as the mother of a son partnered to a woman).
> ...


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

For daughters, it's Daddy who will eventually have to move aside for another man. Fathers have to renegotiate their relationships with their daughters, just like mothers have to move aside for another woman and renegotiate their relationship with their son.
I'm not buying this either. I think it's interesting that your view of marriage (or couplehood) is exclusive, rather than inclusive. I see marriage as adding people to my life, not deleting people from it. No one has had to move aside since dh and I have been together - not his parents, not my parents. Sure, I've had my issues with his mom and sister, but I've had just as many (if not more!) with my own mom and sister.

I am closer to my father now than I was when I was a single young woman. In fact, I think we are probably closer now because am married with children - we are both parents, and that is such a great bonding experience. He walked me down the aisle when I got married, but neither one of us felt like he was "giving me away." The very notion is absurd to me.

Relationships change over the years - ups and downs, close times and not so close times. I really think gender is so far down on the list of factors that contribute to the quality of a relationship over time that it's almost not even worth thinking about.

Quote:

I find my relationship to my dd is more bound up in my feelings about myself. I tend to see her in terms of the woman she will become or in terms of how certain characteristics influenced *my* life for good or ill as a girl. I have to consciously put this "baggage" aside over and over again in order to allow her to blossom into her own person.
This really struck me because it is exactly the thought process I have had about my relationship with ds1. I have to be very conscious not to let my own issues become too much a part of our relationship. I have to try very hard not to wrap my identity up into the kind of person he grows up to be. So far I have not felt this as much with ds2. I think it's because ds1 is much more like me, that these feelings arise. So in the end, I think it has much more to do with the personality of each child that determines the relationship, not the gender.


----------



## delicious (Jun 16, 2003)

for everyone in my family this is true-we weren't close with my dad's family, my brother is no longer close with us, and we are not close with dh's family.

i hope ds will change that pattern.


----------



## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

I totally disagree. I think you can just as easily lose your dd to a sil as you can your ds to a dil. It all depends on how controlling you try to be. I cut my own mother off when she butts into our business, as I have my mil. They now know not to butt into my business and I have a great relationship with both. The difference between my mother and my mil is that my mother is my responsibility (to keep in touch with, to invite for visits, etc) and my mil is dh's.

I say quit worrying about what gender your child is and try to learn how to let them create their own family with their own rules.


----------



## faythe (Oct 2, 2003)

I've never heard that adage before. I don't believe it, and I don't know of any IRL examples where it would hold true. If anything, the opposite seems to be the case. I'd guess that the pre-marriage relationship between the parents and their child would have a lot more to due with the post-marriage relationship than gender.

Honestly, one of the reasons I wanted boys was because of the great, easy relationship dh has with his mom, and all the other great mother/son relationships I'd seen in my previous relationships.


----------



## TranscendentalMom (Jun 28, 2002)

I was closer with my paternal grandparents than maternal grandparents. My dad's parents just lived closer and were more involved in our lives. With our kids it is definitely my own parents who are more involved...but its because they have made the effort. Personally, if my MIL wanted to be more involved I would welcome her with open arms. She could come and live with us as far as I'm concerned if she were less self absorbed and actually cared about my children.


----------



## KermitMissesJim (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:

In all the cases I've seen, the family is closer to the wife's family of origin, and the grown-up daughter is DEFINATLY closer to her mother than the grown-up son is to his mother.
Not for me and dh. We both adore his mother, and while we also love mine, it's not the same. Part of it is culture--dh is southern, and I am from independent, non-attached Yankee stock.


----------



## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle*
And DH wonders why I hate his family and only tolerate them in small doses.

What is his e-mail address, I'll send him the list you posted.

Honestly, what is the deal. Are all the spouse-in-laws treated that way, or is it just the daughters-in-law? It sounds hellish!


----------



## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Viola*
What is his e-mail address, I'll send him the list you posted.

Honestly, what is the deal. Are all the spouse-in-laws treated that way, or is it just the daughters-in-law? It sounds hellish!


He is not computer or Net-Literate.









To be honest, I do not know what the deal is. After the "exclusionary dinner", I asked some nonbiased people if I was over-reacting or just being a turd about it and everyone is just HORRIFIED that the spouses would be excluded. I mean everyone.

They are not evil people, but very self-centered and "clannish", if you know what I mean. If you are a professional in your line of work, they know more than you do. Also, they chalk up any bad behavior to "well thats just the "Smith" way. I just had one of the nicer SILs try to tell me how to feed my baby. I said, "Umm...HELLO! I am on my THIRD child. I think I know how to take care of a baby." She is the nicer one, so of course she backed down. With MIL, if we go to see her, it is always something snarky about my kids.
My poor baby was only 4 mos old and has light colored eyebrows. MIL had to say something about his "big forehead". Now, I ask you, WHY was that necessary. Even if he was ugly, couldn't she just enjoy her son's child and love him up, instead of looking for things to pick at?

We evacuated to GA last year during one hurricane. It was hell. Pure hell. My DH was away a lot, because our BIL asked him to go to work with him (he is a contractor). That was fine with me. But, EVERY meal, if my kids didn't finish their food, it was "your kids need to eat this." and "your kids need to eat that". Yammer yammer yammer. Nevermind that we were in a strange place and were worried sick about what we might find when we came back to FL.
I told DH next time we would be going a couple hours North to my mom's in KY. She doesn't act like that.

DH took me to some Dr. appts. before the birth of this last child. Once, his mother called and he told her he just got out of the doc's office. Her response was, "DO you ALWAYS take her to the doctor? Can she not take herself?" Oh yes, and her reaction to that pregnancy, was, "OOPS! OH NO!" Niiiiice.

Granted, I should ignore a lot of it and go on. But, WHY should I "have" to? Why should they be able to snark and pick at me and treat me and others with blatent disrespect. My husband will agree with me, but gets mad when I complain. So, I recently stopped that with him, and he got an EYE-OPENER from his precious family, and is thoroughly disgusted with them.


----------



## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DaisyRose*
I find it sad that some posters think that it isn't possible to have influence over adult children without that influence being abusive, or that a desire to remain an influential part of your child's life is automatically pathological.









For some mothers, it's NOT possible, and it IS automatically pathological. You might be lucky, but not everyone is. I don't see that fact as any more sad than saying outright that you would never want to have a son because of what you perceive your rights/expectations to/of him might be when and if he gets married (because you presume that you will have a distant relationship with your DIL, or wouldn't want to include her like you do your "own" daughters, I don't know which?).

What you seem to be leaving out (why, I'm not sure, just look at the mother/son MIL/DIL stories even in this thread, as well as others) is that a mother is just as likely to influence the family of her DIL as she is a biological daughter. Granted, we mostly hear complaints about it here (but people tend to vent on bulletin boards, we don't hear as often people spontaneously saying wow, my MIL is great!). But it sounds to me as if a goodly number of motheringdotcom spouses are still their mother's sons. And plenty of motheringdotcom mamas still struggle with their mothers.

The parent of an adult can exert a lot of influence--whether by being hellish and nasty and tearing down their child's family (at their own peril), or being there as a soft place to fall and resource for BOTH of "your" children in that family.

I think it's kind of sad that SILs are preferred over DILs. Women can appreciate an elder who cares for and accepts them and includes them just as much as men can--perhaps even more. Again, I guess *I'm* the lucky one in that regard, and I'm grateful for it. I feel very grieved for people (and I'm sure there's many of them) that have controlling/abusive/shaming/manipulative/rejecting people on BOTH sides.


----------

