# 'w' sitting in a 14m old?



## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

cross-posted in 'life with babes'.

i took my 14 m old for a baby well check up last week, and in the dr's office he sat on the floor the way he usually sits (kneeling, with his bum between his legs, the legs and the bum forming the 'w') -- the dr termed it 'w' sitting, and told us to correct this, as his legs won't develop properly.

any truth to this? anyone had babies who sit this way? anyone had any problems?

it just seems to me that if he sits this way naturally, this just can't be bad. but of course i don't want his legs to be deformed!

anyone who 'discouraged' this at this age? how long did it take? how consistent you had to be?

thanks

anna


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## Ravenmoon (Mar 2, 2002)

The ped that we had when my dd was a toddler told me that yes it can cause problems if done all the time as they get older but typically children will outgrow that phase around 5-6 years of age and that i shouldn't worry at all.My dd is actually 8 now and occasionally sits like that but not so much.My 12 month old babe sits quite a bit like that but i'm not worried.Apparently it comes about from hip dyplasia that occurs in some children but corrects itself around 5-6 years of age but on rare occasions needs surgical correction.I wouldn't worry so much but maybe attempt to help him sit other ways just for stretching purposes.


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## bobica (May 31, 2004)

occasional sitting in the "w" position is ok- most kids do it. if that's his typical sitting position, he could develop complications from it. try to encourage legs folded to the side, 1 foot in the "w" & one out in front, etc. as he gets bigger & stronger, he may naturally rely on this method less & less but it's worth keeping an eye on.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Ds's dr told me the same thing. He didn't have hip dysplasia but that was his preferred position. The one problem he would run into is if he sat that way for too long, he would cut off the circulation to his leg. Because of this, I would suggest he sit differently so that wouldn't happen. I didn't worry about it, though. He has started sitting cross-legged more recently.


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## **guest** (Jun 25, 2004)

thank you everybody. i just googled it too, and found some stuff. i am not too worried, but i am glad she pointed this out, as i would have never thought this was a problem. we thought the way he sat was super cute.

anna


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## Pica (May 14, 2004)

My DD did have hip dysplasia - diagnosed at birth & then treated & corrected.

She was discharged from the care of her orthopedic surgeon at 15 months old as 'cured'.









She loved to sit in the W position - in fact her 2 yo portrait is in that position.
I asked the doctor several times about this - he said it's very controversial but it is normal for my DD & as long as their hips have been checked (normally at birth or shortly after) it's completely fine.

Please try not to worry!

-Pica


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## boingo82 (Feb 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annabanana*
cross-posted in 'life with babes'.

i took my 14 m old for a baby well check up last week, and in the dr's office he sat on the floor the way he usually sits (kneeling, with his bum between his legs, the legs and the bum forming the 'w') -- the dr termed it 'w' sitting, and told us to correct this, as his legs won't develop properly.

any truth to this? anyone had babies who sit this way? anyone had any problems?

it just seems to me that if he sits this way naturally, this just can't be bad. but of course i don't want his legs to be deformed!

anyone who 'discouraged' this at this age? how long did it take? how consistent you had to be?

thanks

anna

Honestly? I think that is baloney.
My brothers and I all preferred to sit that way since we began sitting. We still often sit that way as adults. We have no problems resulting from it.
My son also prefers to sit on his lower legs.
Different people are comfortable in different positions, naturally.

What does he want you to do about it, anyway? Are you supposed to "correct" the child every time they sit they way they are comfortable? This reminds me of all the lefties that were "corrected" into using their right hand.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

My DD sits this way very consistently and has for a long time. I have a friend who is an occupational therapist and she is the one who alerted me to the fact that it is considered a problematic way to sit. We have taught DD to "fix her feet" and she will do so if we ask, but 5 minutes later she's sitting that way again. I do correct her occasionally, but haven't been very religious about it.

Well, we just noticed that she is toeing in on one side when she runs. This isn't a huge problem, but it is supposed to be one possible result of persistent W-sitting. So...we are going to work on it more.

Also, my friend has told me that constant w-sitting MAY be a sign that the child has some weakness in the trunk muscles (w-sitting helps stabilize the sitter). We do think this may be an issue for DD, and we are working on it. I don't know how often this is the case, though.


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## KathinJapan (Mar 25, 2003)

Hhi I liove in Japan where sitting this way is common. In adults it is considered the *proper* way to sit, but with your bum on your feet, knees together. I didn`t grow up sitting this way and have a HARD time with it, esp. at events like funerals where I want to adhere to local customs.
Funny story.
When I first started teaching children one of the 5 year old boys was confused about my gender, he thought I was a woman until he saw me sitting crossed legged on the floor... he had never seen a woman sit that way. It is considered OK for men, but not for women. LOL. His aunt told me the story, she was one of my adult students.
My feet do fall asleep, even people who have been doing it a lot have this trouble. After a funeral or other ceremony you often seem people taking a long time to stand up, or start walking. Everybody is waiting for circulation to be restored to the feet.
I can`t say it is a good way to sit, but that everybody here does it.
Kathryn


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## bass chick (Sep 7, 2005)

My dh sat that way until he was 9. He had a major problem with his hips. They are shaped funny and they caused his feet to be pigeon toed. He sat that way because it was the most comfortable. When he was 9 the doctors said the only way they could fix his legs (he was unable to run because of his problem) was to break the thigh bone and turn it a little and set it with pins. He had the pins removed 2 years later. He has huge scars going down his legs. But I'm sure his 'w' sitting didn't cause this. I'm sure he was born with his problem. So are the doctors.


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## cropofmoss (Apr 17, 2007)

"w" position, or reverse tailor sit, is not possible unless there is an underlying issue of low muscle tone. From an orthopedic standpoint, it places stress on the knees and hips and internally rotates the femur. From a developmental and functional standpoint, it provides stabilization for the trunk and compensates for weak core musculature. It decreases active trunk rotation and crossing of the vertical midline axis of the trunk. Basically, it is a compensatory position that you want to discourage your child from assuming so that they can fully develop postural control (and later fine motor abilities), good respiratory capacity and function, reaching and balance skills, and overall dissociation of shoulders and hips.


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## Incubator (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cropofmoss* 
"w" position, or reverse tailor sit, is not possible unless there is an underlying issue of low muscle tone. From an orthopedic standpoint, it places stress on the knees and hips and internally rotates the femur. From a developmental and functional standpoint, it provides stabilization for the trunk and compensates for weak core musculature. It decreases active trunk rotation and crossing of the vertical midline axis of the trunk. Basically, it is a compensatory position that you want to discourage your child from assuming so that they can fully develop postural control (and later fine motor abilities), good respiratory capacity and function, reaching and balance skills, and overall dissociation of shoulders and hips.

I'd have to completely disagree with this... It is possible. I sat this way all the time as a child, and right up through high school. I was not a fan of chairs and spent a lot of time on the floor. People always commented on my "w sitting" I remember it clearly. My mother said I always sat that way...
The only reason I stopped was that I was gaining weight in college and it became uncomfortable. On top of that sitting on the floor during a lecture was... frowned upon. lol Now I'm heavier AND not as flexible as I used to be, so I no longer sit in the W shape. When sitting on the floor I do still tend to sit on my legs.


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## ShadowMoon (Oct 18, 2006)

DS sits like this sometimes, he has several sitting positions. We go to regular well baby visits and the Dr. never mentioned anything about it. His hips are fine. I can see how this could be problematic if it is done all the time though. I'll keep an eye on it. Oh, and I can sit this way if I try to and I don't have any muscular problems.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boingo82* 
Honestly? I think that is baloney.
My brothers and I all preferred to sit that way since we began sitting. We still often sit that way as adults. We have no problems resulting from it.
My son also prefers to sit on his lower legs.
Different people are comfortable in different positions, naturally.











Quote:


Originally Posted by *cropofmoss* 
"w" position, or reverse tailor sit, is not possible unless there is an underlying issue of low muscle tone.

Nope. Sorry, don't buy it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Incubator* 
I'd have to completely disagree with this... It is possible. I sat this way all the time as a child, and right up through high school. I was not a fan of chairs and spent a lot of time on the floor. People always commented on my "w sitting" I remember it clearly. My mother said I always sat that way...

yep.

I sat that way often as a child. I think this new idea of it being terrible is hogwash personally. I've not seen any research that convinces me.

-Angela


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## moodymaximus (Nov 13, 2007)

DS did / does the same, and i was told that it is not that he won't develop properly, but that this position *could* be indicative of poor muscle tone in the abdominals, which in turn *could* be indicative of other problems.

when i first heard it, i was 100% convinced that it was baloney. then i found some articles that sort of confirmed this.

half of the time i tell him to straighten his legs. half of the time i don't. i've never worried about it.


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## reezley (May 27, 2006)

DS1 sits this way a lot, and I never noticed it really or thought anything of it until his nursery school teachers commented about it to me. They said they remind him to do "criss-cross applesauce" (which I gathered was supposed to mean "Indian-style" as my family always called it). This discussion is showing me there is a lot of conflicting advice on this! Now I'm wondering if it is a problem, or is the result of a problem, or will become a problem if it's not now. I don't sit like that anymore, but I'm able to very easily. I usually sit with one foot "in" and one "out", a half-W, I guess. Come to think of it, I have a bit of a hip problem sometimes that I've been meaning to see a chiropractor about for 10 years now. Related?? Sigh~ should I be correcting his sitting?


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## bdoody11 (Aug 16, 2005)

My 13mo DD W sits. It seems natural to me. She crawls, stops to see something/play, and sits back on her heels. Then when she's done (usually after about a minute) she leans forward into crawling position and takes off. She also sits in other more correct positions.

Sometimes I correct her if she looks like she'll be sitting for a long while (not likely, she is constantly on the move). If she still does it a lot once she starts to walk I may pay more attention.

This is a girl who didn't sit up consistently until 8 or 9 months because she couldn't get from crawling to sitting by herself so she preferred to lay on her tummy. Once she could transition easily she never looked back.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

I'm in the baloney camp.

I don't doubt that in some children, sitting this way might cause, or perhaps more likely be a symptom of, other problems. But to say that a child will never sit that way unless there are problems is nonsense. My 3 1/2 year old sits in all kinds of positions, and often that one is the one that is comfortable for her.

When she was 18 to 24 months old her OT (for minor feeding and speech issues) used to give me all sorts of hassles about it. I took the long view, and sure enough there's absolutely nothing wrong with DD as a result of her being comfortable sitting that way. She walks and runs and climbs and dances and sits and moves just fine, with no issues at all ever.

I say that if there are no other signs that something might not be right, you should leave the child alone and let him sit any way he is comfortable.








JMHO, of course.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Underlying issue of low muscle tone? Um, no.







My kids ALL sit this way often, DH does too...I see where they get it.







While *I* wouldn't be comfy sitting that way...I certainly don't care if they do nor would I want to stop them.


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## Way Up North (Sep 15, 2007)

Just because someone can provide anecdotal experience of how something didn't harm them, doesn't mean it is baloney







~it just means it was not true in your case.
W sitting is different than the Japanese way of sitting on yourheels.
I remember a thread on another parenting forum some time ago (to meet anecdote with anecdote) about 'w' sitting and it was amazing the number of adults who chimed in,not knowing this was an issue and related how they sat that way and then related their hip and knee issues.
My sister could drop from standing into a 'w' and had surgery on both knees at age 12 for her congenital knee issues.
There is a large body of evidence which points to that fact that while 'w' sitting may not *cause* issues, it is often a sign of underlying conditions. Not always, but the bottom line is it is not a good position for knees, hips or back.
My dd did this around 14 months for a couple months. All I had to say was 'bum please' and she happily dropped back onto her bum. She still sits like sometimes~ when you drop down and want to check something out, it is a great position, but usually pulled up, not with the bum on the floor (it is the bum on floor, w legs that is at issue). So yes, it is actually super easy to correct. I know our occupational therapists and child workers in our provincial system also ask kids to fix this all the time.
Like everything, you do what is right for you. FOr me, there is enough evidence that this may be harmful for us to choose to make an easy correction


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## ryansma (Sep 6, 2006)

My son often sits like this and my dh pointed out that it reminded him of how his sister often sat as a child. I never worried about it. If it was the ONLY way he sat on the floor then I might get concerned. But I don't believe occassionally moving through play sitting in such a way is abnormal or a sign of any problems.

When I googled "w sitting" I only got a handful of hits but this seemed to be the most clear.

_When in the W-position, a child is planted in place or "fixed" through the trunk. This allows for play with toys in front, but does not permit trunk rotation and lateral weight shifts (twisting and turning to reach toys on either side). Trunk rotation and weight shifts over one side allow a child to maintain balance while running outside or playing on the playground and are necessary for crossing the midline while writing and doing table top activities.

It's easy to see why this position appeals to so many children, but continued reliance on W-sitting can prevent a child from developing more mature movement patterns necessary for higher-level skills.

Who should not w-sit? For many children, W-sitting should always be discouraged. This position is contraindicated (and could be detrimental) for a child if one of the following exists:

-There are orthopedic concerns. W-sitting can predispose a child to hip dislocation, so if there is a history of hip dysplasia, or a concern has been raised in the past, this position should be avoided.
-If there is muscle tightness, W-sitting will aggravate it. This position places the hamstrings, hip adductors, internal rotators and heel cords in an extremely shortened range. If a child is prone to tightness or contractures, encourage anther pattern of sitting.
-There are neurologic concerns/developmental delays. If a child has increased muscle tone (hypertonia, spasticity), W-sitting will feed into the abnormal patterns of movement trying to be avoided (by direction of the child's therapist). Using other sitting postures will aid in the development of more desirable movement patterns._


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Way Up North* 
Just because someone can provide anecdotal experience of how something didn't harm them, doesn't mean it is baloney







~it just means it was not true in your case.

Well, yeah, but what the PP said was "w" position, or reverse tailor sit, is not possible unless there is an underlying issue of low muscle tone." If someone says it's not possible, all I have to do is find an example where it WAS possible, and I've disproven the assertion.

And yeah, I'm just arguing now for the sake of it, so I'll stop.


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## Flower of Bliss (Jun 13, 2006)

My mother and her siblings all sat in the w position quite regularly. So did all of my cousins on that side, my siblings, and myself. I've been completely unsurprised and unconcerned to see my daughter sitting this way often as well. There is absolutely no history of hip or knee issues among my mother's generation or mine. My maternal grandmother also has no knee or hip issues. She has lots of health issues, but none there.

So, I can't say that it's never a problem, but in the case of my daughter I'm not at all concerned.


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## jakesask (Jul 31, 2007)

We used to do this as a stretch in phys.ed. I guess times have changed!

I can sit like this if called upon to do so, although I wouldn't choose it for fun! I don't have any muscle, joint, or other issues.


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## alllyssa (Sep 1, 2004)

Are you all talking about squatting with flat feet? I'm totally confused about what "w" sitting is


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## SugarAndSun (Feb 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cropofmoss* 
"w" position, or reverse tailor sit, is not possible unless there is an underlying issue of low muscle tone. From an orthopedic standpoint, it places stress on the knees and hips and internally rotates the femur. From a developmental and functional standpoint, it provides stabilization for the trunk and compensates for weak core musculature. It decreases active trunk rotation and crossing of the vertical midline axis of the trunk. Basically, it is a compensatory position that you want to discourage your child from assuming so that they can fully develop postural control (and later fine motor abilities), good respiratory capacity and function, reaching and balance skills, and overall dissociation of shoulders and hips.

I also disagree.

I love to sit this way now; I even love to sit that way and recline. It is a very popular yoga pose. I don't know anything about it medically, but considering how my almost two year old has a yogi's dream flexibility, I am not at all surprised that many children can sit this way comfortbly.

FYI, the yoga pose is called virasana. Here are some of the benefits:

http://www.yogajournal.com/basics/2033


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## 2 in August (Jan 6, 2006)

When I was a sp ed teacher the OTs told us not to let the kids sit like that. My friend's little boy sits like that, even after I told her that he shouldn't. As a toddler he fell down a lot and his feet always seems to be flinging out (hard to describe sorry). Now he's 6yo and he legs still kind of fling out when he runs. I'm wondering about what his knees will be like as he gets older.


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## Nanu (Nov 26, 2007)

My brother sat like this, and required knee surgery about age 8.

My daughter sits like this, and is seriously toeing in. If you look at her footprints in the sand, they cross with every step. If we tell her "walk straight," she can do it (till next time.) Her running looks okay to me. I plan to take her to the dr soon. She is almost 4 and I first noticed it a year ago, but all the nurses in our family said it wasn't bad, just watch it.

That said... I am not convinced that W-sitting CAUSED these problems for my daughter or my brother. More likely, W-sitting was comfortable them because they already had some abnormalities. I'd like to see a definitive chicken/egg study.

I say this because I was constantly being told to "sit up straight" before a doctor told my parents I had scoliosis. All the slumping in the world did not cause my scoliosis, and all the corrective exercises the doctors prescribed and made me feel guilty for failing at, could not fix it.

So I tell my daughter "walk straight" and "don't sit that way," but I'm not sure any of it is right.







:


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## LiLStar (Jul 7, 2006)

I used to sit like that as a kid, still do sometimes. Its comfy to me. I've seen dd sit like that before, couldn't say how often.. its never been "on my radar". Didn't know it had a name! I could swear we did that pose in yoga, too. Hmm. I'm curious now. Who knew a sitting position could be so controversial?







Now I'm going to have to ask my chiro about that.


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## snitker79 (Apr 7, 2007)

I work with children with disabilities and have seen first hand the issues that they deal with due to their lack of muscle tone and overcompensating posture. Both children I have in mind have issues with walking/have to use a walker. Their body is so used to sitting W style that they cannot physically sit on their butt with thier legs out in front of them nor crossed in front of them without support.

Now I'm not saying that W sitting caused their condition, I believe that it was due to their disabilities, but it certainly didn't help the physical situation that they are in now as young teens.

Personally, I would not correct my dd if she did it once in awhile, for brief periods of time. But if I saw her sitting down to play something on the floor, like she was going to stay awhile, and was W sitting. I would sit with her and correct her positioning without drawing attention to it and/or encourage a more body friendly posture.


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

as a pediatric physical therapist specializing in early intervention, w-sitting usually is a concern with the children that i work with. the info that ryansma quoted above pretty much sums it up.

now, for most children that are developing typically, w-sitting is not a 'problem' in and of itself. it's not the best position to sit in as it does compromise the knee and hip joints (and to a lesser degree, the ankles), and it does not allow for lateral weight shifting and trunk rotation so the child 'stuck' in that position and limits the planes of motion in which to engage in play activities.

for a child that exhibits a varied and flexible repertoire of sitting positions, w-sitting doesn't really raise any red flags (although if my child did sit like that, i WOULD gently encourage her to sit in another position, but that is just me being a mommy with her P.T. hat on







).

however, many children with even mild low tone (aka hypotonia) issues, even subclinically, w-sitting is a preferred sitting position because it is pretty passive, and easy for them. you don't have to use your trunk/core nearly as much as in other positions. for these kids, i usually suggest to the parents that they facilitate their child to sit in other positions. i am very careful to talk to the parents about the language and methods in which to do this. preferably, a positive verbal cue like "feet in front" is best imo, instead of saying something like "fix your legs" or "sit right" (which i have heard parents saying, unfortunately







). concurrently, i really help the families work with their kids on trunk strengthening/core stability.


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## Om Girl (May 10, 2006)

This thread has helped me a lot, I provide in-home care and the LO sits like this CONSTANTLY.
She has NO core strength with extreme back lordosis and toes in on one side pronouncedly when she walks. She didn't walk until 14 mo and would instead "walk on her knees".
I'm going to pass this information along to her mother to have her hips checked for dysplasia.


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## sbgrace (Sep 22, 2004)

My mildly low muscle tone kiddo tends to do this or tended to anyway. I do too...and what do you know I'm low tone as well but never knew it.

Our OTs always said "criss cross apple sauce" and that's the cue to sit cross legged. Works and is pleasant I think/kids like it.


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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

All of my boys did this. I suppose if all they did was sit around on the floor it would be a problem, but that's hardly the life of 3 energetic boys! So no, it's never been a problem.
At their preschool they're asked to sit cross-legged instead, so they get the hang of it.
My husband and boys both have flat arches and walk with feet tilted in, but it's genetic, not learned.
I think the best you can do is remind him and help him to sit differently when you remember. As long as he's not sitting like that all the time I wouldn't worry about it.


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## basmom (Jun 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
as a pediatric physical therapist specializing in early intervention, w-sitting usually is a concern with the children that i work with. the info that ryansma quoted above pretty much sums it up.

now, for most children that are developing typically, w-sitting is not a 'problem' in and of itself. it's not the best position to sit in as it does compromise the knee and hip joints (and to a lesser degree, the ankles), and it does not allow for lateral weight shifting and trunk rotation so the child 'stuck' in that position and limits the planes of motion in which to engage in play activities.

for a child that exhibits a varied and flexible repertoire of sitting positions, w-sitting doesn't really raise any red flags (although if my child did sit like that, i WOULD gently encourage her to sit in another position, but that is just me being a mommy with her P.T. hat on







).

however, many children with even mild low tone (aka hypotonia) issues, even subclinically, w-sitting is a preferred sitting position because it is pretty passive, and easy for them. you don't have to use your trunk/core nearly as much as in other positions. for these kids, i usually suggest to the parents that they facilitate their child to sit in other positions. i am very careful to talk to the parents about the language and methods in which to do this. preferably, a positive verbal cue like "feet in front" is best imo, instead of saying something like "fix your legs" or "sit right" (which i have heard parents saying, unfortunately







). concurrently, i really help the families work with their kids on trunk strengthening/core stability.


I have read this thread and don't have anything new to add. When I started to read I thought "I wonder what kidspiration would say?"








I'm glad you replied (and said just what I thought you would!) and I can tell you work with parents of young children!


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *basmom* 
I have read this thread and don't have anything new to add. When I started to read I thought "I wonder what kidspiration would say?"








I'm glad you replied (and said just what I thought you would!) and I can tell you work with parents of young children!


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

Huh, this is the first I've heard of "W sitting" being a bad thing. I never even knew there was a name for it. I still sit this way sometimes at 25 years old and have no issues with my hips or knees or otherwise.


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## heatherweh (Nov 29, 2007)

Pediatric physical therapist who saw DS for an evaluation (as part of a team with a speech therapist) noticed him do this and said that we should try to prevent it just because it puts such stress on the joints.


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## Bunnybee (Jan 16, 2007)

Here's my story: DD NEVER sat like that and she DOES have leg problems! She was severly bow legged and had major in-toeing.


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## ryansma (Sep 6, 2006)

Ever since seeing this thread I have paid more attention to how many times ds actually "w sits". I have noticed that he will move out of w -sitting fairly quickly now (he just did it while sitting and playing with stickers) where he used to sit like that for longer stretches of time. So that makes me think it is something that children WITHOUT other issues probably just grow out of.


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## cropofmoss (Apr 17, 2007)

Sorry for rambling but children are my passion


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

eh, I still don't buy it. W sitting was my preferred position through childhood. During the same time I was a serious ballet dancer with excellent turn out









Sure didn't make my knees and hips turn in.

-Angela


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## leanbh (Mar 22, 2007)

just my two cents, i was an avid 'w' sitter from toddler to early teens, and i have toe-turn-in on both feet. as well, tailor sitting is very uncomfortable for me now.

i don't know all the facts about cores and trunks and muscle stuff, but i have knees, ankles and hips that require constant attention from chiros and docs.

if i could go back in time, i would have sent my own parents to a doc or whomever to get me to stop sitting this way. but they didn't know any better... that's not something that was really attended to in our lifestyle.

i think it would not be harmful if the child uses a variety of sitting positions and exercises regularly.... but that was not the case with me.


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## cropofmoss (Apr 17, 2007)

When youngsters sit this way, at least four areas of the body may be adversely affected. The hips have too much stress put on them; the thighs twist inward in an unnatural position; the kneecaps, which should be facing frontward, twist inward; and the feet are also turned in. Children who make a habit of sitting in the W position may walk and run with their knees and toes turning inward and their feet kicking out at their sides. This gait gets a lot of laughs for Jerry Lewis in the movies, but it's hardly recommended for growing boys and girls.
Children who sit in W position have inward rotation of the thigh bone (femoral anteversion) which in turn promotes inward rotation of the hips joints. This is not good for the normal hip development. It should therefore be discouraged and the child be encouraged to sit cross legged. If the child has an abnormal gait or cannot sit cross legged, he/she should be examined by a pediatric orthopedic surgeon.
W-sitting can also discourage a child from developing a hand preference. Because no trunk rotation can take place when W-sitting, a child is less inclined to reach across the body and instead picks up objects on the right with the right hand, and those placed to the left with the left hand.

Try sitting in various positions. Notice how you got there, got out, and what it took to balance. Many of the movement components you are trying to encourage in a child are used when getting in and out of sitting. Transfers in and out of the Q-position, however, are accomplished through straight-plane (directly forward and backward) movement only. No trunk rotation, weight shifting, or righting reactions are necessary to assume or maintain W-sitting.

When in the W-position, a child is planted in place or "fixed" through the trunk. This allows for play with toys in front, but does not permit trunk rotation and lateral weight shifts (twisting and turning to reach toys on either side). Trunk rotation and weight shifts over one side allow a child to maintain balance while running outside or playing on the playground and are necessary for crossing the mid line while writing and doing table top activities.

It's easy to see why this position appeals to so many children, but continued reliance on W-sitting can prevent a child from developing more mature movement patterns necessary for higher-level skills.


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## cropofmoss (Apr 17, 2007)

Parents, we are not pointing fingers and saying your are bad parents! But don't you want to do whats best for your children. It may be alright fur us but is it really what's best for them? Maybe our parents didn't have all the resources but we do, we should take full advantage.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cropofmoss* 
Parents, we are not pointing fingers and saying your are bad parents! But don't you want to do whats best for your children. It may be alright fur us but is it really what's best for them? Maybe our parents didn't have all the resources but we do, we should take full advantage.

I just don't buy that it's always an evil position. I think that in a child with other issues, it should be considered. But in a normally developing child, I do not believe that it is harmful in and of itself. Nor have I seen any convincing research showing that it is.

-Angela


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## cropofmoss (Apr 17, 2007)

Yes but prolonged use of the position can lead to future problems. You where a dancer and that helped your muscles stay strong, a young child needs a solid foundation from the start.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cropofmoss* 
Yes but prolonged use of the position can lead to future problems. You where a dancer and that helped your muscles stay strong, a young child needs a solid foundation from the start.

Eh, a young child should have a solid foundation of physical activity to keep their muscles strong. Much more important than forbidding one seating position.

-Angela


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## pixilixi (Jun 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
as a pediatric physical therapist specializing in early intervention, w-sitting usually is a concern with the children that i work with. the info that ryansma quoted above pretty much sums it up.

now, for most children that are developing typically, w-sitting is not a 'problem' in and of itself. it's not the best position to sit in as it does compromise the knee and hip joints (and to a lesser degree, the ankles), and it does not allow for lateral weight shifting and trunk rotation so the child 'stuck' in that position and limits the planes of motion in which to engage in play activities.

for a child that exhibits a varied and flexible repertoire of sitting positions, w-sitting doesn't really raise any red flags (although if my child did sit like that, i WOULD gently encourage her to sit in another position, but that is just me being a mommy with her P.T. hat on







).

however, many children with even mild low tone (aka hypotonia) issues, even subclinically, w-sitting is a preferred sitting position because it is pretty passive, and easy for them. you don't have to use your trunk/core nearly as much as in other positions. for these kids, i usually suggest to the parents that they facilitate their child to sit in other positions. i am very careful to talk to the parents about the language and methods in which to do this. preferably, a positive verbal cue like "feet in front" is best imo, instead of saying something like "fix your legs" or "sit right" (which i have heard parents saying, unfortunately







). concurrently, i really help the families work with their kids on trunk strengthening/core stability.









:
I'm also a paediatric physical therapist, and I totally agree with the info that Ryansma and above poster said - no real need for me to add more.


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## mntnmom (Sep 21, 2006)

My DH still does that when he sits on the floor. So does my DD. It's not like a healthy toddler is going to spend a huge amount of time in any one position, so if there isn't another issue, I don't understand how it's a problem by itself.


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## Kat_shoshin (Feb 16, 2007)

My sister sat like this through her school years - she was the most flexible among us and it was really comfortable for her. Mom called it the "TV Squat".

She walks and stuff now at 26 - and had no other trouble.


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## muttmom92 (Mar 20, 2005)

My ds's feet turn in and his ped told us to discourage W sitting, but didn't make a big deal out of it. She also told us to encourage sitting cross legged and that sports like soccer would be good for him when he gets older.


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## Mama2E&O (Sep 7, 2004)

I haven't read all the replies~ but I wanted to add that my now 7 yo daughter used to sit like this constantly and she never had any problems and stopped doing it at some point on her own.


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## portlandmama (Apr 30, 2006)

I get a kick out of these Posts. I am an occupational therapist who also works with young children and I also discourage children from sitting in this position.

This post is reminiscent of the crawling before walking posts where hand fulls of mamas chime in that they didn't crawl and they are just fine. We all have movement patterns that we use to compensate for weakness, imbalances, and/or mild low muscle tone. Just because we do do them, doesn't meant that it is the best for us. It's functional...and that's why we do it. and by the way, if you can do it, it does often mean that you are on the lower tone side of the spectrum. There is nothing wrong with it. It's part of our neurological makeup. I am lower tone as well. It's when tone gets to the extreme ends of the spectrum you run into problems.

No, "w" sitting is not the devil reincarnate and it is developmentally appropriate until around five but it is not a position that is intended for long term sitting. Just like a PP observed with her child, they often do this when they are crawling and stop to play temporarily. But most often, they move on and don't remain in that position. If they do, it can be a sign of underlying issues, as mentioned before, and it is something to keep your eyes on and it's usually accompanied by other signs. "w" sitting in and of itself is not usually an issue.

Phew...I left and came back and I feel better now. I am not sure what it is that gets my goat about these threads. It seems like there are two ends of the spectrum when I look at developmental threads. If you look on places like "GASP" Baby Center, you get the perspective that somehow your child's development is a reflection of how good of a parent you are. And places like Babies R Us perpetuates it. Have you been there recently? They have these things called "walking wings" that have a harness that you but around your child and then there are two loops that you hold onto as you train them to walk. They kids look like little marionettes. There is a place for things like this. There often created based on tools used with children with special needs. The thing that kills me about it is that it is marketed for children as young as 6 mos. 6 MONTHS! They are no where near developmentally ready to learn to walk at 6 MONTHS!

Then there is the other end of the spectrum. Development happens naturally and you exclusively follow the lead of the child. Don't get up in arms yet, I am on this end as well. The problem comes in assuming that everything that a child does in the course of development is best. Most of the time it is but there are things that children do that are maladaptive and if allowed to develop, it follows a trajectory that is difficult to reverse.

It is fairly safe to assume that children are going to develop typically. Things like "w" sitting and not crawling are things that millions of kids do or (not do) without consequence. but then there are the millions of kids that do them and it is a part of something bigger. So just because you did it or your kid did and you and your kids are fine doesn't mean that it's bogus and never an issue.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *portlandmama* 
This post is reminiscent of the crawling before walking posts where hand fulls of mamas chime in that they didn't crawl and they are just fine. We all have movement patterns that we use to compensate for weakness, imbalances, and/or mild low muscle tone. Just because we do do them, doesn't meant that it is the best for us. It's functional...and that's why we do it. and by the way, if you can do it, it does often mean that you are on the lower tone side of the spectrum. There is nothing wrong with it. It's part of our neurological makeup. I am lower tone as well. It's when tone gets to the extreme ends of the spectrum you run into problems.









Welll.... since you bring it up- I never crawled either. I never had any muscle tone problems - as I mention I was a serious dancer









My mom stressed seriously about me not crawling... tried to make me etc. Didn't work. I just stood up and walked at 9 months and never looked back.

I will buy that in children with other concerns it can be something to consider, but the idea that we should forbid sitting positions or force crawling is beyond absurd to me...









-Angela


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## portlandmama (Apr 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 







Welll.... since you bring it up- I never crawled either. I never had any muscle tone problems - as I mention I was a serious dancer









My mom stressed seriously about me not crawling... tried to make me etc. Didn't work. I just stood up and walked at 9 months and never looked back.

I will buy that in children with other concerns it can be something to consider, but the idea that we should forbid sitting positions or force crawling is beyond absurd to me...









-Angela

Like I mentioned in my previous post. We all fall somewhere on the spectrum in terms of tone. You only have "tone issues" if you land somewhere towards the extremes (think CP with high tone, down syndrome with low) and/ or it limits your ability to participate in age appropriate activities. As a serious dancer, you probably have lower tone. It tends to help make people more flexible.

Your right, it's not a great idea to "force" or "forbid" anything developmentally speaking and most kids only "w" sit fleetingly. But if they are sitting like that for long lengths of time, gentle reminders to sit in a way that doesn't put as much stress on the knees and hips might be a good idea...it's like telling your child to sit straight, which is also good advice. Besides, if sitting in other positions makes it so your child is not able to get enough support to play (which is why kids tend to prefer to sit that way), getting some ideas on how to work on trunk support might be warranted.


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## Lady Lilya (Jan 27, 2007)

Absolutely fascinating!

I never sat like that, as far as I can recall. I've also never been comfortable sitting "indian style."

My sister sat in a W for long periods of time until she was about 12. At that point, she was diagnosed with scoliosis. By the time it was treated, she was so twisted that if she was standing with her feet facing north, her upper body faced west. Her internal organs were being squished. They did surgery.

Now she has knee problems. Her doctor gave her some exercises to try for a while before considering other options.


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