# Can we talk about alcohol?



## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

How much alcohol do you drink? What are your thoughts on it? To my knowledge, the amount actually passed into breastmilk is very low. And on the rare occasion that I feel tipsy and nurse DD, I have NEVER seen her react to it.

Thoughts?

(ETA: Once a day, and everday are the same thing.)


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## ellymay (Aug 4, 2005)

I don't drink any, although I have heard what others have said about it being ok or whatever but I just don't agree with it and I wouldn't do it.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

I would say that when I was BFing I had probably 2-3 drinks a month. Not mixed drinks, just a beer or a glass of wine. Not in the very beginning when they nurse all the time, but a few months later when their schedule is abit more predictable.


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## sadkitty (Jun 24, 2004)

I would say its more like 3 or 4 times a week. Mostly a glass of red wine with dinner. Very good for the heart!

Knowing that my European ancestors RARELY drank water and often drank ale, or weak beer, from an early age and throughout pregnancy and breastfeeding, I feel just fine with the occasional glass of wine. I would not say it is good to get drunk very often, but even a splurge on your anniversary won't do irreparable harm to the babe.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I drink rarely just coz I'm not that into it. I think with even a small babe it's fine to drink smallish amounts of alcohol, and with an older nursling (like 2+ I think?) I feel comfortable going ahead and getting plastered.

eta - nak, meant to vote rarely, accidentally voted 'dont think its healthy'! doh!


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## quirkylayne (Sep 15, 2005)

I just haven't really wanted any since I've been bfeeding. I did have a few drinks early on - man! Low tolerance after not drinking for 10 months! I have a sip of DH's beer every once in awhile but really it just doesn't appeal to me any more.


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## SMoody (Dec 22, 2006)

Sorry but I dont drink while BF. I have taken one sip or so but I dont want the stuff to go to her. Same reason why I wont take certain medication. I rather then not BF at all then.


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## flminivanmama (Nov 21, 2001)

I did whenever I wanted to which wasn't really one of the options. I guess it would be "occasionally"


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## leafwood (Jun 15, 2004)

I voted very rarely. Since dd was born I have maybe had the equivalent of one entire drink (and it's been 2y 9m and counting







). Mainly a sip of champange at a toast or a sip of dh's beer if I really want it, but it doesn't happen often. I wasn't a big drinker before getting pregnant so it's not much of an issue here.


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## Amris (Feb 27, 2006)

There are effects from alcohol that I don't think an infant needs to experience. The most important one, in my mind, is dehydration. Alcohol is highly diuretic.

So I choose not to drink, though I wasn't a real drinker before, either.

I wouldn't drink for my own self, either. Being dehydrated makes it arder to make milk, and is taxing on the body.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SMoody* 
Sorry but I dont drink while BF. I have taken one sip or so but I dont want the stuff to go to her. Same reason why I wont take certain medication. I rather then not BF at all then.

See, this is a problem to me. We need to get more accurate, less hysterical information out about alcohol, marijuana, etc while nursing. Becoz it saddens me greatly to think of mamas choosing formula rather than breastfeeding becoz they are concerned about the effects of the occasional drink, or joint.


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Nak.

I have a drink or two 3-5 x's a week.

It's not a big deal for me or many of my friends. The amount of alchohol passed with responsible drinking is miniscule.


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## Amris (Feb 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
Becoz it saddens me greatly to think of mamas choosing formula rather than breastfeeding becoz they are concerned about the effects of the occasional drink, or joint.









Then you've never dealt with the effects of an addict nor seen how horrifically miserable they are and they make everyone around them.

I envy you that ignorant bliss. May you keep it for your entire life.

And may my child keep it for hers, as well...


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## CrunchyCate (Jul 9, 2005)

I drink every once in awhile. Sometimes, like during Christmas, I'll have a couple drinks a week, and then I will go months without (I voted for rarely.)

Really, it makes me too nervous, and I try to time it for when DD isn't going to nurse for hours. I would ideally drink after she falls asleep at night, but then we co-sleep, so I don't drink for that reason.







:


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 
Then you've never dealt with the effects of an addict nor seen how horrifically miserable they are and they make everyone around them.

I envy you that ignorant bliss. May you keep it for your entire life.

And may my child keep it for hers, as well...

What? Where are you coming from with that? We're not talking about alcoholism here, we're talking about mamas nursing and enjoying some bevvies.







:


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 
Then you've never dealt with the effects of an addict nor seen how horrifically miserable they are and they make everyone around them.

I envy you that ignorant bliss. May you keep it for your entire life.

And may my child keep it for hers, as well...

How does having ONE drink every night while still breastfeeding (instead of giving up or using formula) fit in with your statements? Just curious.









I think Thismama's post was in response to Smody's comment; _"I rather then not BF at all then."_

I don't think not breastfeeding at all, and potentially using formula, is better then breastfeeding and having a glass of wine every night.

For the record, I have a glass of wine with dinner several times a week. Probably 4-5 nights a week. My daughter is not an addict, nor has she lost her innocence. I think she is better off with breastmilk, even after a glass of wine, then not receiving any breastmilk at all.


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## mom2avasteph (May 6, 2005)

I haven't read the replies yet, but I don't drink because of medication that I take, not because I don't think it's healthy in small amounts.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Moderate drinking while breastfeeding is fine.

Dr. Jack Newman, member of the LLLI Health Advisory Council, says this in his handout "More Breastfeeding Myths":

'_Reasonable alcohol intake should not be discouraged at all. As is the case with most drugs, very little alcohol comes out in the milk. The mother can take some alcohol and continue breastfeeding as she normally does. Prohibiting alcohol is another way we make life unnecessarily restrictive for nursing mothers._"


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## *jeanine* (May 29, 2005)

"Light drinking" (defined as one drink or less per day) is *not* contraindicated while breastfeeding. The rule of thumb is basically, if you can feel it, so can babe. When I drink, I make sure i drink slowly, not on an empty stomach, and not more than one drink per day - after so many years of pregnancy and breastfeeding, my tolerance is low. Alcohol passes freely into and out of breastmilk. When it's no longer in your bloodstream, it's no longer in your milk. Also, babies under three months old have immature livers, and can't process alcohol as well, so common sense would say to take it easier if you're bfing a small babe.


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## Amris (Feb 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
What? Where are you coming from with that? We're not talking about alcoholism here, we're talking about mamas nursing and enjoying some bevvies.







:

There are a large number of studies that show that children who live in a home with parents who drink, who smoke, or who have other "habits" end up doing the same things, statistically speaking. Furthermore, many of those studies indicate that children from those homes tend to have a far higher likelihood of becoming alcohol addicts.

The person to whom I responded seemed to indicate that these scientific studies are just "fear tactics." Furthermore, the impression comes across that the person she quoted needs to "educate herself" on how harmless alcohol really is.

Anyone who has lived with an alcohol addict would not say such a thing. Anyone whose family member or friend has died or been injured by a drunk driver would not say that.

Alcohol, even notwithstanding its potential detrimental effects on the body (one of which I have already mentioned) is far from harmless if someone becomes addicted to it. In a home where it's readily available and an openly accepted "part of life," the likelihood of a child becoming an alcohol addict are increased.

A parent who feels extremely strongly about their child becoming an alcohol addict isn't ignorant. In fact, they're probably over-educated on the hard realities of what alcohol can do.


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## krisw (Jun 8, 2006)

I only drink VERY rarely, and usually just a bit for the flavor of an unusual-for-me drink. I've only had once drink since having my son, and that was several months ago--about half a glass of wine, if that, RIGHT after my son had just nursed when I could be reasonably certain he wouldn't want to nurse for a while. Not even enough for me to feel it, and followed up by lots of water and a full (very full!) dinner. I wasn't worried. =)


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## sharon71 (May 27, 2005)

I voted none only because I haven't had any alcohol since 2 weeks prior to conceiving.Not because I think it's unhealthy or wrong to have an occasional drink.
Sometimes however i feel like I could down a bottle of Sangria







:


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## RootSnort (Nov 22, 2006)

I have one dark beer many days, with dinner or other food, to help boost milk production. I'm careful to make sure it doesn't go to my head, and I pump just before I drink it. Baby boy has never shown any reaction to those evening bottles versus the morning ones.


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## Jennbee (Apr 30, 2005)

Very rarely, maybe a couple of times a year.


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## Lynnseedoil (Aug 18, 2005)

I voted Once/week. Sometimes I go weeks without, sometimes I have a glass of beer 3 days in a row. Just depends on when it's available and what's happening around me!


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## Sagesgirl (Nov 22, 2001)

I drink very, very rarely. I did even before I had kids. Probably the result of growing up around alcoholics and seeing what utter f'ing idiots they made of themselves of a Friday night. I am with Amris on the negative effects of drinking on a family. Even if you don't turn into an alcoholic yourself (both my husband & I grew up with alcoholic fathers and neither of us drinks more often than maybe 2x or 3x a year), there is definite harm done. And if I go any further into my thoughts of being "tipsy" around children, I'll be committing a _real_ UA violation.

As far as the "beneficial" effects of alcohol...There's frankly nothing in a glass of wine that you can't get from a glass of grape juice, and grape juice isn't potentially toxic.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I voted rarely, but it's really more like once in awhile. I have a hard cider or glass of wine or the like a few times a year (when not pregnant). Maybe once every month or two?

I am very familiar with alcoholics and their behavior- have them scattered through the family. My parents never made a big deal out of alcohol (it was never forbidden, we could have sips, etc) and it has never been a big deal to me.

I have no problem nursing after having a drink or two.

-Angela


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## darkpear (Jul 22, 2003)

I like to have a beer or two. I haven't been drunk in years - not since before I had kids. I don't enjoy being drunk...

Isn't the amount of alcohol in your milk approximately the same as what's in your blood? So after two beers (if I slammed them back-to-back, rather than having two over the course of an evening), blood alcohol is .08, milk alcohol is about the same... just doesn't seem enough to worry about, to me.


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 
There are a large number of studies that show that children who live in a home with parents who drink, who smoke, or who have other "habits" end up doing the same things, statistically speaking. Furthermore, many of those studies indicate that children from those homes tend to have a far higher likelihood of becoming alcohol addicts.


Actually, there are also credible studies done that show evidence that kids who grow up in homes where responsible, moderate drinking has been modeled _do not_ have a high risk of becoming alcohol abusers.

I don't think the OP is about being an alcoholic breastfeeding mom. It's about the occassional drink, which I have no problem with at all.


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## Blue Dragonfly (Jun 19, 2005)

I drink on a fairly regular basis. I have no concerns about BFing while drinking. I think its important to be responsible about drinking. I hope never to be drunk in front of my children (can't say it won't ever happen, but I don't plan on it). I never drive after drinking even one drink, for at least 3 hours. I have a back up plan for emergencies if I drink (ie. someone to call if I need to, God-forbid, go to the hospital with my DC's). If I am going to have more than a couple of drinks, and get tipsy, I make sure I have another adult around who can care for my children, if they need it.

That said, I can imagine it would be very emotionally difficult to accept that drinking is ok if you came from a home where alchohol/drugs were abused. I remember seeing my parents drunk a couple of times, and it was pretty scary. I can't imagine how difficult that would be to live with every day.


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## aiccerb (Dec 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
Moderate drinking while breastfeeding is fine.

Dr. Jack Newman, member of the LLLI Health Advisory Council, says this in his handout "More Breastfeeding Myths":

'_Reasonable alcohol intake should not be discouraged at all. As is the case with most drugs, very little alcohol comes out in the milk. The mother can take some alcohol and continue breastfeeding as she normally does. Prohibiting alcohol is another way we make life unnecessarily restrictive for nursing mothers._"









:

In regards to the original post, I answered once a week. Every Saturday night after the kids go to bed, Dh and I have "date night" out in the living room







We either order in food, rent a movie, or just sit and chat. I usually kick back, have a glass of wine and spend some time enjoying my hubby. I do not think this is harmful in anyway to my dear DD. If anything I think the enjoyment/relaxation I get from it just makes me a better mama


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## Amris (Feb 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Blue Dragonfly* 
That said, I can imagine it would be very emotionally difficult to accept that drinking is ok if you came from a home where alchohol/drugs were abused. I remember seeing my parents drunk a couple of times, and it was pretty scary. I can't imagine how difficult that would be to live with every day.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make regarding the person who so adamantly said she'd rather formula feed than give her baby alcohol.

Again, though, I will point out that alcohol is NOT healthy. If you indulge in it, it is, indeed, an indulgence. I am really surprised that on a "crunchy" board, people actually advocate the use of drugs and alcohol, when they are so detrimental to the body.

The whole, "well, it can help reduce the risk of heart disease" argument is kind of like saying, "well, shooting yourself in the foot at least would take your mind off of the headache you have, so shooting yourself in the foot is a good thing."

When you do things that your body has to "recover from" but which don't add a positive value at the other end (like exercise does, for example), then you are doing something detrimental to your body.

Alcohol has no physical benefits (aside from the 'may reduce the risk of heart disease' thing, which I'll go into in a minute), yet taxes your liver, depresses your nervous system, and uses energy for recovery that should be put to better uses. It dehydrates you, it causes an insulin response, and it is high in high GI carbs (in other words, it can contribute to making you fat).

Every bodybuilder who is at all serious about the sport knows full well the detrimental effects of drinking. You don't feel "peak" the next day, because your body is worn down from and recovering from the drinking (even in small amounts). You have to drink a lot of extra water, your energy is way down... it's just not worth it.

And it's especially not worth it for the small likelihood that it may help reduce your chances of getting heart disease. Especially given the fact that exercise, proper eating, and not forcing your body recover from an altered state will do 100x more to prevent heart disease.

It's like feeding your baby formula because "well, it will help baby sleep longer between feedings."

Is sleeping longer between feedings worth the detrimental effects of formula feeding on DC's body? Of course we'll all say, "Heck no!" and think that's a stupid question.

Well, is the "possibility of reduced likelihood of heart disease" or the "well, it alters my perceptions which is fun" worth the detrimental effects of alcohol on the body? Everyone has to decide that for themselves. Me, though, I'd rather not pass those detrimental effects of dehydration, insulin response, altered perception, etc. on to my child.

Nor do I find the decreased energy, dehydration, increased fat, and altered perceptions to be either fun, nor worth the "possible" reduction in my chance of getting heart disease.

A chance that is pretty slim for me to begin with, because I eat so carefully and exercise regularly so that my blood pressure remains low, my heart rate is slow when resting, my cholesterol levels are incredible (so sayeth the doctor), and my energy level is incredibly high.

I feel far better leading a healthy lifestyle than I feel for the short time that my perception is altered by alcohol. When you are in great physical shape, you REALLY notice the unpleasant side effects of alcohol.

If you're not in great physical shape, putting one more demand on your body isn't really helpful. It's a little like putting your pans into a really old dishwasher without prerinsing. Don't be surprised when it doesn't work out so hot.

Don't be surprised when your body gets dehydrated, you put on weight, your liver gets tired, your immune system gets depressed, your nervous system slows down, and your metabolism crashes if you add yet another thing for your body to "recover" from on top of everything else.


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

You are missing the fact that it does help a mom unwind and relax. With no outside effort. That is a benefit. A benefit that can and is had without copious amounts of alcohol. I don't drink for my hearthealth. I drink to relax a bit.

I have to say, your last post is UBER judgemental. I am sorry if you are unable to view alcohol in a neutral light. That is not the case for everyone.

I saw my father drunk one time. I was 15. I wasn't afraid. He wasn't going to drive anywhere it was at a cast party at a hotel in his suite. I was impressed by the incredible amount of alcohol he had to imbue to get that way though. It was an impressive feat.


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## Amris (Feb 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pynki* 
You are missing the fact that it does help a mom unwind and relax. With no outside effort. That is a benefit. A benefit that can and is had without copious amounts of alcohol. I don't drink for my hearthealth. I drink to relax a bit.

Ah, yes, the ever-popular, "I only drink a little bit, therefor my body has nothing to recover from" argument. I already stated this, but I'll do so again... even small amounts are detrimental. Do you think your body just hangs onto it? Does your liver not have to process it if it's 'just a little bit'?

I'm sorry that you're not able to relax without alcohol. I understand that that's how it is for you. I don't have a problem with you doing whatever it is that you want to do with your own body.

The purpose of my post is to say, "Do whatever you wish to do, but do it with awareness, and don't pass on myths." Myths like, "but only a little bit isn't harmful at all." It is, indeed, detrimental to the body. Will it kill you? Maybe not. Will it effect the quality of your health negatively? Definitely. As will eating sugars. As will refusing to exercise. As will many other things that "we all do, all the time." The point I am raising is that you don't have to add yet another stressor to your body.

You have decided that you will drink, regardless. Someone else who doesn't need alcohol to relax may very well read my post and say, "Hmmm, yeah, I guess the benefits don't outweigh the negatives." I think from your response here, you were not aware that EVEN A LITTLE BIT of alcohol is a stressor on your body. Since you were not aware of that, it would be reasonable to assume that others are not aware, either.

Quote:

I have to say, your last post is UBER judgemental. I am sorry if you are unable to view alcohol in a neutral light. That is not the case for everyone.
No, my post was not judgemental, my post was educational. If it makes you feel guilt for drinking, that is not because of my post, it is because you are reading something into it that isn't there. The fact of the matter is, my post IS very literally in a neutral light. The FACTS are that EVEN A LITTLE alcohol has detrimental effects on your body.

It's okay if you want to indulge. But doing so without awareness and deliberate choice is not wise. I indulge in sugar on occassion. Sugar has a detrimental effect on my body, as it does on everyone's. I cannot change that medical FACT just becuase I dislike that medical fact. When I indulge in sugar, I am doing exactly that, indulging. I can honestly say that I cannot find pleasure in eating unless it's something sweet. Other times I eat, it is for sustenance.

That is not judgemental, that is just fact. For me to enjoy food, it has to be sweet. I'm not being mean or snarky or rude about that, I am simply stating something that is factual. Just as it is factual that alcohol dehydrates, alters perceptions, depresses the nervous system, etc.

Quote:

I saw my father drunk one time. I was 15. I wasn't afraid. He wasn't going to drive anywhere it was at a cast party at a hotel in his suite. I was impressed by the incredible amount of alcohol he had to imbue to get that way though. It was an impressive feat.
I'm not really sure what to say here, as it has nothing to do with my post whatsoever. It would apply if I were stating physical effects that come ONLY from imbibing incredible amounts of alcohol, but I was not.


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## sadkitty (Jun 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 

Again, though, I will point out that alcohol is NOT healthy. If you indulge in it, it is, indeed, an indulgence. I am really surprised that on a "crunchy" board, people actually advocate the use of drugs and alcohol, when they are so detrimental to the body.

Well, maybe we all drink organic homebrewed beer and micro-vinted wines. i know i do. In fact we grow the hops that my BIL uses to make beeer in his kitchen a couple miles away. We also live in a region that is heavy with vineyards.

If i need to drink a glass of water or two added onto the gallon i drink daily anyway, so be it.
i come from a family of male alcoholics. but I still know the difference between drinking, getting drunk, and being a drunk.

I was mostly joking about the "heart health." Although the benefits are proven by SCIENCE! I'm vegan, my heart is just dandy. Yet, i still love a good cabernet.

*I hear the hurt place you are speaking from, but not everyone comes from or goes to that place.*


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## Amris (Feb 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sadkitty* 
Well, maybe we all drink organic homebrewed beer and micro-vinted wines. i know i do. In fact we grow the hops that my BIL uses to make beeer in his kitchen a couple miles away. We also live in a region that is heavy with vineyards.

If i need to drink a glass of water or two added onto the gallon i drink daily anyway, so be it.
i come from a family of male alcoholics. but I still know the difference between drinking, getting drunk, and being a drunk.

I was mostly joking about the "heart health." Although the benefits are proven by SCIENCE! I'm vegan, my heart is just dandy. Yet, i still love a good cabernet.

*I hear the hurt place you are speaking from, but not everyone comes from or goes to that place.*

I drink on Christmas. I love egg nog made with alcohol. I won't while I'm pregnant or nursing, because I won't make the decision of putting alcohol into someone else's body. So I am not saying that one should never drink.

I am, again, not talking about excessive drinking. Any amount of alcohol you put into your body is a stressor on your body. It's that simple. No matter how much or how little you drink, it has to be cleared by the liver, it depresses your nervous system until it has been cleared, it is dehydrative, etc.

As far as alcoholism, the belief that all alcoholics drink excessively is nonsense. Alcoholism is a disease, and it is not defined by how much or how little you drink. It is defined by addiction.

One can drink once a year and be an alcoholic. One can drink once a day, every day, and not be one.

There are a LOT of misconceptions prevalent in this thread, and that's why I'm putting the truth out there.

My "I am surprised" comment is exactly that, I am surprised. It's not an, "OMG, I can't believe this, it's so horrible!" It's nothing more or less than what I said. Surprise. People who in general are so child protective are advocating detrimental chemicals.

I feel the same way about caffiene on these boards. It is also detrimental, and people here advocate that, too.

It is, basically, coming from a bunch of health nuts, this stuff surprises me. Then it was, "perhaps they don't KNOW."


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## sadkitty (Jun 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 
It is, basically, coming from a bunch of health nuts, this stuff surprises me. Then it was, "perhaps they don't KNOW."

Or perhaps we take calculated risks so as not to deny ourselves pleasure.







Or maybe just to stay awake.


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## stacyann21 (Oct 21, 2006)

I drink a few beers a week. I have only felt intoxicated maybe once since ds's birth. I've never noticed any effect on him. I do think it lowers my supply a little though.


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## homemademomma (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LauraBlock* 
I have one dark beer many days, with dinner or other food, to help boost milk production. I'm careful to make sure it doesn't go to my head, and I pump just before I drink it. Baby boy has never shown any reaction to those evening bottles versus the morning ones.

why do you pump before you drink?


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 
Every bodybuilder who is at all serious about the sport knows full well the detrimental effects of drinking.

Yeah, 'cause comparing one drink a day to a sport riddled with drug abuse makes sense.







: LOL. Geeze, talk about grasping at straws! I don't think "body building" is a healthy sport. Period. Being physically fit and enjoying exercise is healthy, however, reducing fat and building excessive muscle to the point of putting strain on your frame while practicing extremely unhealthy dietary practices is NOT healthy.

Quote:

Me, though, I'd rather not pass those detrimental effects of dehydration, insulin response, altered perception, etc. on to my child.
I would like to read the research you are basing this comment on, because to the best of my research, ONE glass of wine does not do to this your child. Especially when timed right. At least that is according to LLL and the likes.

Quote:

Nor do I find the decreased energy, dehydration, increased fat, and altered perceptions to be either fun
You keep referring to the symptoms of being drunk. I don't like be "drunk" either. I have yet to experience those symptoms when I have a glass of wine with dinner.









Quote:

I feel far better leading a healthy lifestyle than I feel for the short time that my perception is altered by alcohol.
Again, another symptom of being drunk. Who here, besides you, is talking about getting drunk every night?







:


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 
There are a large number of studies that show that children who live in a home with parents who drink, who smoke, or who have other "habits" end up doing the same things, statistically speaking. Furthermore, many of those studies indicate that children from those homes tend to have a far higher likelihood of becoming alcohol addicts.

The person to whom I responded seemed to indicate that these scientific studies are just "fear tactics." Furthermore, the impression comes across that the person she quoted needs to "educate herself" on how harmless alcohol really is.

Anyone who has lived with an alcohol addict would not say such a thing. Anyone whose family member or friend has died or been injured by a drunk driver would not say that.

Alcohol, even notwithstanding its potential detrimental effects on the body (one of which I have already mentioned) is far from harmless if someone becomes addicted to it. In a home where it's readily available and an openly accepted "part of life," the likelihood of a child becoming an alcohol addict are increased.

A parent who feels extremely strongly about their child becoming an alcohol addict isn't ignorant. In fact, they're probably over-educated on the hard realities of what alcohol can do.

I think we all have biases.







Obviously you have lived with alcoholism or an alcoholic, and this has affected your perception, as not living with or being an alcoholic has affected mine.

I'm not worried about it. And if you want to make a case that parents should never drink alcohol lest they influence their children, that's a different thread. We are talking specifically about nursing mothers here.


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## StrawberryFields (Apr 6, 2005)

I have a beer or two or a glass of wine or two a couple times a week and I am fine with it.


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## RootSnort (Nov 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *homemademomma* 
why do you pump before you drink?

I'm being overcautious, and trying to ensure that little to no alcohol gets into his milk. I will also pump just before I take any medication, and then not pump again for a few hours.


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 
Anyone who has lived with an alcohol addict would not say such a thing. Anyone whose family member or friend has died or been injured by a drunk driver would not say that.

Alcohol, even notwithstanding its potential detrimental effects on the body (one of which I have already mentioned) is far from harmless if someone becomes addicted to it. In a home where it's readily available and an openly accepted "part of life," the likelihood of a child becoming an alcohol addict are increased.

A parent who feels extremely strongly about their child becoming an alcohol addict isn't ignorant. In fact, they're probably over-educated on the hard realities of what alcohol can do.

THese ARE fear tactics. I have friends who's family was wrecked for a while from drunk driving. Her BIL killed her and his best friend. She can see however that it was her BIL's addiction. It wasn't the alcohol that did it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 
That's exactly the point I was trying to make regarding the person who so adamantly said she'd rather formula feed than give her baby alcohol.

Again, though, I will point out that alcohol is NOT healthy. If you indulge in it, it is, indeed, an indulgence. I am really surprised that on a "crunchy" board, people actually advocate the use of drugs and alcohol, when they are so detrimental to the body.

...

Alcohol has no physical benefits (aside from the 'may reduce the risk of heart disease' thing, which I'll go into in a minute), yet taxes your liver, depresses your nervous system, and uses energy for recovery that should be put to better uses. It dehydrates you, it causes an insulin response, and it is high in high GI carbs (in other words, it can contribute to making you fat).

...

Well, is the "possibility of reduced likelihood of heart disease" or the "well, it alters my perceptions which is fun" worth the detrimental effects of alcohol on the body? Everyone has to decide that for themselves. Me, though, I'd rather not pass those detrimental effects of dehydration, insulin response, altered perception, etc. on to my child.

...

I feel far better leading a healthy lifestyle than I feel for the short time that my perception is altered by alcohol. When you are in great physical shape, you REALLY notice the unpleasant side effects of alcohol.

If you're not in great physical shape, putting one more demand on your body isn't really helpful. It's a little like putting your pans into a really old dishwasher without prerinsing. Don't be surprised when it doesn't work out so hot.

Don't be surprised when your body gets dehydrated, you put on weight, your liver gets tired, your immune system gets depressed, your nervous system slows down, and your metabolism crashes if you add yet another thing for your body to "recover" from on top of everything else.

Ok. Yes. You are being judgemental. You are assuming that people who do drink on occasion and don't feel bad the next day aren't in "great physical shape"

You are also saying that mothers who drink and breastfeed don't care about their children as much as you do.

You are also using "I told you so" when at the end you say. "Don't be suprised when.." your body goes to $#it is your feel. Just like the wife who says I told you so is condescending. Your choice of tone is too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pynki* 
You are missing the fact that it does help a mom unwind and relax. With no outside effort. That is a benefit. A benefit that can and is had without copious amounts of alcohol. I don't drink for my hearthealth. I drink to relax a bit.

I have to say, your last post is UBER judgemental. I am sorry if you are unable to view alcohol in a neutral light. That is not the case for everyone.

I saw my father drunk one time. I was 15. I wasn't afraid. He wasn't going to drive anywhere it was at a cast party at a hotel in his suite. I was impressed by the incredible amount of alcohol he had to imbue to get that way though. It was an impressive feat.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 
Ah, yes, the ever-popular, "I only drink a little bit, therefor my body has nothing to recover from" argument. I already stated this, but I'll do so again... even small amounts are detrimental. Do you think your body just hangs onto it? Does your liver not have to process it if it's 'just a little bit'?

I'm sorry that you're not able to relax without alcohol. I understand that that's how it is for you. I don't have a problem with you doing whatever it is that you want to do with your own body.

The purpose of my post is to say, "Do whatever you wish to do, but do it with awareness, and don't pass on myths." Myths like, "but only a little bit isn't harmful at all." It is, indeed, detrimental to the body. Will it kill you? Maybe not. Will it effect the quality of your health negatively? Definitely. As will eating sugars. As will refusing to exercise. As will many other things that "we all do, all the time." The point I am raising is that you don't have to add yet another stressor to your body.

You have decided that you will drink, regardless. Someone else who doesn't need alcohol to relax may very well read my post and say, "Hmmm, yeah, I guess the benefits don't outweigh the negatives." I think from your response here, you were not aware that EVEN A LITTLE BIT of alcohol is a stressor on your body. Since you were not aware of that, it would be reasonable to assume that others are not aware, either.

No, my post was not judgemental, my post was educational. If it makes you feel guilt for drinking, that is not because of my post, it is because you are reading something into it that isn't there. The fact of the matter is, my post IS very literally in a neutral light. The FACTS are that EVEN A LITTLE alcohol has detrimental effects on your body.

It's okay if you want to indulge. But doing so without awareness and deliberate choice is not wise. I indulge in sugar on occassion. Sugar has a detrimental effect on my body, as it does on everyone's. I cannot change that medical FACT just becuase I dislike that medical fact. When I indulge in sugar, I am doing exactly that, indulging. I can honestly say that I cannot find pleasure in eating unless it's something sweet. Other times I eat, it is for sustenance.

That is not judgemental, that is just fact. For me to enjoy food, it has to be sweet. I'm not being mean or snarky or rude about that, I am simply stating something that is factual. Just as it is factual that alcohol dehydrates, alters perceptions, depresses the nervous system, etc.

I'm not really sure what to say here, as it has nothing to do with my post whatsoever. It would apply if I were stating physical effects that come ONLY from imbibing incredible amounts of alcohol, but I was not.

Number one. I did not say that I ONLY unwind and relax with a beer in my hand or a drink, or a glass of wine. I said it is helpful. It is. You are being judgemental by implying that it must be the ONLY way I can relax.

I shared the story about my dad because it came to mind when speaking about parents and drinking.

My dad drank responsibly my whole childhood that I can remember. I only saw him really let loose that one time. As I said, I was 15 or 16 years old. You aren't the only one who's personal life and childhood colors their view of alcohol.


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## Amris (Feb 27, 2006)

If I'm against alcohol, I must have been raised by an alcoholic. Nice assumption, but completely untrue. Study and science are at the root of my decision not to drink while pregnant or nursing. My only experience with an alcoholic came, actually, after my viewpoint of alcohol changed to be one of "not interested."

As for the repeated assertion that only over-indulgence has an effect on the body, let me just







again. If it had no effect on the body unless you over indulge, people wouldn't drink it except to over-indulge. Therefor, I am finished with that particular discussion. If there are no effects from not drinking much, people wouldn't do it. Anyone with any degree of logic understands that you don't get all the positives and none of the negatives.

Bodybuilders all do drugs just like all alcoholics drink like fish. The whole "body building is unhealthy" is not borne out by science, only by an emotional need to find some way to attempt to take the focus off of the actual discussion.

Quote:

You are also saying that mothers who drink and breastfeed don't care about their children as much as you do.
Kind of the way that people who don't breastfeed don't care about their children? Not much difference between the two perspectives, IMO. But one's okay to say, the other not?


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 

Kind of the way that people who don't breastfeed don't care about their children? Not much difference between the two perspectives, IMO. But one's okay to say, the other not?

Er, neither are okay with me.







But then I'm not big into the "you must not care about your children becoz you do xyz" guilt trips. YMMV.


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## spughy (Jun 28, 2005)

I drink an occasional glass of wine and nurse whenever. I don't worry about it.

Does alcohol have a detrimental effect on the body? Sure. So does sleep deprivation, but all of us here happily (well more or less) accept that IN EXCHANGE for our babies knowing they are loved. I will also happily accept a slight amount of dehydration (not much considering I drink more than 4 litres of water every day) and a bit of a hit on the old liver in exchange for the pleasure of the intricacies of a good glass of wine. Moreover, I value the skill I have developed in appreciating a good glass of wine, and I would like to pass on that skill to my daughter eventually. There is ART and finesse in wine and beer, it is a product of human ingenuity and the best ingredients nature can provide, and it should be appreciated.

Drinking isn't just about getting drunk or tipsy or even relaxing. Wine, beer and high-quality liquors are all about aesthetic appreciation, much like fine art, and if that's not your bag, that's fine, but there's no need to make those of us who appreciate the bouquet of a great burgundy or the finish on an good microbrewed wheat beer feel like we're body-hating lushes because of it.


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## mom2snugbugs (Nov 28, 2006)

I voted very rarely. I just had a half glass of champagne at my SIL's wedding. That was all since before my DS was born, and that was 7.5 months ago.

But I am a light weight to begin with.


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 

Kind of the way that people who don't breastfeed don't care about their children? Not much difference between the two perspectives, IMO. But one's okay to say, the other not?

Actually that WOULDN'T be ok to say ANYWHERE on MDC because it ISN'T TRUE!


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I have a beer or two on fri or sat evenings. It never affected dd. I have been doing it since she was about 6 months old. I did not feel comfortable drinking before then.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Up until I became pregnant a couple months ago, I had a glass of wine with dinner, some times two, probably 4 times a week. My son is 3 years old though. When he was exclusively nursing & doing so round the clock I drank much less. I even did the pump and dump when I went to a party and had a couple of hard mixed drinks when he was 5 months old.


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## ndunn (Mar 22, 2006)

So let me get this straight.... If I have 1 glass of beer or wine per week, the "studies" have shown that my child will have more of a chance of becoming an alcoholic.....


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## ndunn (Mar 22, 2006)

Oh and since when did even a little alcohol have a detrimental effect on the body? I'm sure I can dig up just as many studies that show that the occasional glass of red wine is actually good for you.


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 
If it had no effect on the body unless you over indulge, people wouldn't drink it except to over-indulge.

Bologna. If this were so, no one would drink any beverage BUT alcohol. There is flavor, conviviality, enjoyment...not just drunkenness. You've obviously got your own bone to pick with alcohol, but it is a part of nearly every human culture and cuisine, it does have demonstrable health benefits in certain forms and amounts, and I challenge you to produce any reference showing that a mother who drinks within moderate guidelines is likely to cause alcoholism in her nursing child.


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## MomToKandE (Mar 11, 2006)

When my babies were tiny and nursing all the time I almost never drank. Ds just turned 3 and now usually only nurses morning and night so I don't worry about drinking a few times a week.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

I'll have a glass of wine a handful of times a month, a mixed drink less than that, and hard liquor never. I had a huge strawberry daquiri at Red Lobster and was tipsy after drinking it because I so rarely drink stuff like that, and Henri DID get an upset tummy after that, so I won't be doing that again any time soon. The wine doesn't affect him, however, so I'll still "indulge" a few times a month with that.


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## homemademomma (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LauraBlock* 
I'm being overcautious, and trying to ensure that little to no alcohol gets into his milk. I will also pump just before I take any medication, and then not pump again for a few hours.









: oops i see in your sig you express- i missed that part before!!!


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## Jazzmin (Jun 29, 2006)

I drink a beer or have a glass of wine maybe 3 times a week. I have no qualms about BF and drinking.


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## jaidymama (Jun 18, 2005)

When my son was an infant/baby I never had a drink of alcohol. Now that my son is a toddler, his growth has slowed down and his weight is higher so I have recently indulged in a glass of red wine with a meal occasionally. He does still nurse infrequently at night.

Honestly, though, my perspective is that if you bring a child into the world and are nursing then you can give up a little vice like alcohol for a year or more. It's just part of the role as a parent. For me, I see it as a responsible health choice... they are growing so quickly, why risk introducing something into their body if the affects are questionable. Besides why I think there is a problem if a parent's need for a drink outweighs the more cautious stance of drinking something else.

And perhaps even more importantly, if you are getting TIPSY around your baby and you are co-sleeping... then you should seriously make sure you sleep in another bed or on the floor... but never in the same bed as the child.

Oh, and here's what Kelly Mom has to say...
http://www.kellymom.com/health/lifestyle/alcohol.html


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 
Study and science are at the root of my decision not to drink

This will be the second time I've asked this, but I would like to see the science and research that indicate ONE glass of wine will leave my child impaired and more likely to become an alcoholic.

Quote:

If there are no effects from not drinking much, people wouldn't do it.
There you go again assuming that people drink to get drunk. That is simply NOT true. Has it never occurred to you that people actually enjoy the taste, above all else?

Quote:

The whole "body building is unhealthy" is not borne out by science, only by an emotional need to find some way to attempt to take the focus off of the actual discussion.
Trying to convince me of the detriments of alcohol by using body builders as an example of health is laughable. Body builders, just by virtue of their sport, are unhealthy. There is nothing deflective about that. It's like trying to get a smoker to tell a fat person to loose weight.

Pot, meet Kettle. LOL.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
Wine, beer and high-quality liquors are all about aesthetic appreciation, much like fine art, and if that's not your bag, that's fine, but there's no need to make those of us who appreciate the bouquet of a great burgundy or the finish on an good microbrewed wheat beer feel like we're body-hating lushes because of it.

Exactly. Sometimes it's not about getting drunk, but simply appreciating what is in your glass. I know a citrus grower who does the same thing with a fresh glass of orange juice. Shall we assume he is doing it only for the loose stools he gets from "copious amounts" of vitamin C?







:


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## FreeThinkinMama (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
See, this is a problem to me. We need to get more accurate, less hysterical information out about alcohol, marijuana, etc while nursing. Becoz it saddens me greatly to think of mamas choosing formula rather than breastfeeding becoz they are concerned about the effects of the occasional drink, or joint.









I would sooner smoke a joint than drink a glass of wine, either while breastfeeding or pregnant. Alcohol is much more harmful in general than marijuana. Put it this way, nobody ever died from smoking too much pot.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeThinkinMama* 
I would sooner smoke a joint than drink a glass of wine, either while breastfeeding or pregnant. Alcohol is much more harmful in general than marijuana. Put it this way, nobody ever died from smoking too much pot.

ITA. But that's a whole other thread. Believe me, I got the t-shirt.







:


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## North_Of_60 (May 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeThinkinMama* 
I would sooner smoke a joint than drink a glass of wine, either while breastfeeding or pregnant. Alcohol is much more harmful in general than marijuana. Put it this way, nobody ever died from smoking too much pot.

Werd.


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## Amris (Feb 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pynki* 
Actually that WOULDN'T be ok to say ANYWHERE on MDC because it ISN'T TRUE!

So are you saying that it's a good idea to formula feed your child? Because it appears the only options here are that I either have to agree with something you do, or if I don't, I'm saying you don't care as much about your child as I do mine. I have a right to the opinion that drinking while breastfeeding or pregnant is detrimental, just as others have the right to the opinion that giving your baby formula is detrimental.

WHO statements in alcohol passing into breastmilk http://www.euro.who.int/document/e73182.pdf:

Quote:

Remember:
• *alcohol can pass into the breast milk, so do not drink or at least
restrict alcohol intake during lactation;*
• there is no evidence of any beneficial effect of alcohol on
breast milk production;
• smoking may decrease your ability to produce breast milk and
thus affect the growth of your baby, smoking also decreases
the vitamin C content in breast milk;
• try not to harm the lungs of your newborn child - never smoke
in baby's room;
• caffeine can pass into the breast milk and cause hyperactivity
and sleeping problems in your baby - try not to drink too much
coffee, tea and cola drinks (recommendations are the same as
for pregnancy);
• many medications can also pass into breast milk - check with
your doctor before taking any (however, taking most
medications is not a contraindication to a breastfeeding)


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## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *darkpear* 
Isn't the amount of alcohol in your milk approximately the same as what's in your blood? So after two beers (if I slammed them back-to-back, rather than having two over the course of an evening), blood alcohol is .08, milk alcohol is about the same... just doesn't seem enough to worry about, to me.

My IBCLC told me this. I think a NON-alcoholic beer has about 0.5 doesn't it? Much much more than an over-the-limit drunk mama's milk. (Not that I'd let my kids drink even non-alcoholic beer, but just for comparison purposes...) And not that I get drunk and nurse. I voted a couple of times a week. I enjoy my red wine with meals or occasionally by itself if I have a night out. I rarely nurse after more than one glass unless I've spread it out or had a lot to eat and then I'll nurse after two but never more than that.


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 
So are you saying that it's a good idea to formula feed your child? Because it appears the only options here are that I either have to agree with something you do, or if I don't, I'm saying you don't care as much about your child as I do mine. I have a right to the opinion that drinking while breastfeeding or pregnant is detrimental, just as others have the right to the opinion that giving your baby formula is detrimental.

WHO statements in alcohol passing into breastmilk http://www.euro.who.int/document/e73182.pdf:

*sigh*
I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

No, I am NOT saying I think that feeding your child ABM is the optimal choice. I AM however saying that just because I breastfeed doesn't mean I love my child more than someone else.

It's a fallicious argument.

The WHO says LIMITED acohol consumption. Is ANYONE on this thread talking about anything other than that?


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I'm talking about going on a bender every night, Pynki. With babe in sling, of course.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Reading this thread is tempting my pregnant self to join you thismama.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I did start getting plastered occasionally once my nursling turned two. I asked on a board and was told by a friend who does (something to do with breastfeeding support? LLL leader? anyway) that their livers are better able to metabolize the alcohol content in bm after this age.

I mean, once your nursling can beat you at a game of Memory, you kind of want to be able to get on with your life and occasionally enjoy yourself, kwim?


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## kochanyk (Jun 30, 2005)

I have issues w/drinking heavily and co-sleeping... therefore I will on RARE occassion have A middle of the day drink (once every few months). As far as BFing and alcohol- personal view is moderation for your own health even.


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## RootSnort (Nov 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jaidymama* 
And perhaps even more importantly, if you are getting TIPSY around your baby and you are co-sleeping... then you should seriously make sure you sleep in another bed or on the floor... but never in the same bed as the child.

Oh, and here's what Kelly Mom has to say...
http://www.kellymom.com/health/lifestyle/alcohol.html

VERY important point, and well-taken. Co-sleepers must be very careful what we do at bedtime.

Kelly Mom has a point - alcohol itself does not help with milk production. But the Hops and Brewers Yeast, particularly in the darker beers, is believed to help with milk production. If you can find a dark non-alcoholic beer, that would be ideal. Since I have been unable to do so, I drink a single dark beer many nights, with food so I don't feel the effects. My baby has been between greater than 95% to 85% on the weight chart, he's now 10 months old. While much of that is likely genetics, I'm proud to say my milk had a role.









***

Regarding parent's drinking and alcoholism in kids, my parents taught me respect for alcohol. Beer was available to me since my earliest memory, but only under my parent's supervision. It was made very clear to me that I should not drive if I was feeling any effects from a drink, and when I went away to college, I did not have the problems that some kids had, because alcohol wasn't new or exciting to me.

While college kids may experiment with alcohol because it is new, I think a lot of adult alcohol addiction either comes from genetics or psychological issues, not just drinking because Mom and Dad did. People can and do get addicted to an endless number of things, alcohol is just one of them.

As a pharmacist, I believe that alcohol is OK in moderation. That moderation rule really applies to everything. The news recently reported a story of someone who died from drinking too much water as part of a competition. So, anything in excess can be detrimental. As parents, we need to teach our kids about balance.


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## mothragirl (Sep 10, 2005)

i have a beer or a glass of wine every night when my boyfriend comes home and gives alice a bath (my 30 minutes of break). sometimes i have another one after she goes to sleep. it's organic and a great part of my break.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

I had one drink about every other day when I was breastfeeding my son. However, I had some supply issues with him, and I heard later on that alcohol can increase that problem, so I think next time I will avoid it until my supply is well established.

As for moderate alcohol use in the home leading to alcoholism, I trust my personal experience. The only serious alcoholics in my family, and there are several, were all raised by teetotalers. My grandma's dad was an alcoholic and she never allowed alcohol in the home at all, and ALL THREE of her children have had problems with alcohol (although I wouldn't call my mom an alcoholic ... she does drink a lot though).

We have a large alcohol collection and drink in moderation.


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## amyjeans (Jul 27, 2004)

beef? gotta be red. chicken? white!
love me some vino a few times a week, but I need to drink lots of water because it dries me out like crazy!
My dh is a big wine lover and a chef so he wants to educate me and eventually the kids (when they are older







)about pairing with food, etc.
We look to add another dimension to our meals, not to unwind with a drink, though it is an added bonus!


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Amris* 
Then you've never dealt with the effects of an addict nor seen how horrifically miserable they are and they make everyone around them.

I envy you that ignorant bliss. May you keep it for your entire life.

And may my child keep it for hers, as well...

I've lived ten years with an alcoholic, my ex-husband, and I know first hand what the effects are. I wore them on my body many many times.

In spite of my experience with alcoholism, I enjoy a glass of wine in the evenings. I nurse my two year old. I didn't drink when they were smaller, but I don't sweat it now and I don't see anything wrong in other mums making the choice to enjoy a drink when nursing.









I was always lead to believe that parents who are extreme in their opinion in either direction about alcohol are more likely to have alcoholic chidlren than those who drink in moderation and see it as a non-issue.

I also enjoy chocolate and the occasional soda. I know it's not good for me and don't need educating on the subject. I don't crave it, I don't depend on it, I don't need it, but I enjoy it. I don't honestly thinl it will cut my life short to indulge myself in the odd unhealthy snack or drink, and I think it gives my children a good example.

I say this gently, but I do believe that a black and white view of alcohol like yours is more likely to lead your child, or maybe their children, to alcoholism than a more moderate approach.


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## joesmom (Nov 19, 2001)

I never drank while pregnant or nursing- or before that







: as I just do not care for the taste of most alcoholic beverages... there was a time when I was vehemently opposed to the idea of drinking while bfing. However, it seems clear that an _occasional_ glass of wine or beer is not going to have a negative impact on a child. Like someone else said, if I was nursing & wanted to drink, I think it would be my personal comfort level to wait till the baby was over six months. I don't know why.

The level of judgment in this thread is astonishing. I am a non drinker who grew up in a family of non drinkers, & I am very uncomfortable in the presence of _drunk_ people. But it doesn't bother me to be with people who are drinking a glass or two of wine. (& if they happen to be drinking schnapps or kahlua mudslides, I have been known to take a sip or two myself.







)


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## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

I didn't do it till ds was down to 1-2 times a day, then an occasional glass of wine. I just wasn't comfortable doing it.


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## SuperMama (Jan 22, 2007)




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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I'm talking about going on a bender every night, Pynki. With babe in sling, of course.









Well, I figured YOU were TM. I mean... You probably had your feet up and everything while doing it!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
Reading this thread is tempting my pregnant self to join you thismama.


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## RockStarMom (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ellymay* 
I don't drink any, although I have heard what others have said about it being ok or whatever but I just don't agree with it and I wouldn't do it.

Ditto.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pynki* 
Well, I figured YOU were TM. I mean... You probably had your feet up and everything while doing it!

















Yeah you know me, kicking back on the sofa in the living room, beer always in hand.


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## treehugginmama (Apr 25, 2003)

I voted very rarely because I don't drink. I may have a sip of someones wine once in a great while.


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## leila1213 (Sep 15, 2006)

Wow, heated topic! I haven't read all the posts yet, but I feel fine having a glass or two daily if desired. I read in the LLL magazine that it's only necessary to avoid in the early weeks. Because of the osmosis process by which milk is made, the amount of alcohol in the milk is the same as the amount in the bloodstream at any given time. So, if your BAC is .15, which would be _extremely_ drunk, then the content of the milk would be .15%. That's 15 _hundredths_ of a percent. If you've just had one or two glasses in a few hour period (enough to still drive legally/safely), then it would be more like .05%. Seeing as how beer and wine are around 12%, as a comparison, I'm not worried about that tiny amount. And if we process about a glass per hour, then that means the alcohol is being removed from the milk at the rate of about one glass per hour. So there is no need to wait several hours to nurse or pump & dump the milk or anything like that. That article really cleared it up for me.


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## granolamomma (Jul 11, 2005)

[ hoping my soapbox is of equal height ]

I voted a couple times a week. With a meal, a glass of wine or beer is a splurge that I happily enjoy as something that is for *me*. Of course it effects me! But so does the air I breathe, the water I drink, the meat I occasionally eat and the cookie I savor for dessert.









I'm doing the best I can to keep my family nutritionally healthy. But I can't lose all of my pleasures in the name of sacrifice. I am happier with my balance. I'm sad that not everyone here sounds the same.


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## PrettyBird (Jun 19, 2005)

I didn't vote because, while I don't drink, I don't see any problem with having a couple of drinks and breastfeeding. In fact, even with a drunk mom the major danger is impairment of the mother, not the miniscule amound of alcohol in breastmilk. Isn't there more alcohol in a piece of ripe fruit than the 0.05% in breastmilk of a mom who had 2 glasses of wine? I certainly wouldn't restrict the consumption of ripe fruit for my children for fear that the tiny amount of alcohol would harm them.

I am really agreeing with thismama here. We seem to have a hard time grasping the concept of moderation in this country, whether it be food, alcohol, etc. It's kind of ridiculous.


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## Aliviasmom (Jul 24, 2006)

I voted for once a week. But sometimes it's a bit more often, sometimes a bit less. And only for the last few months. Before that it was VERY rare. Lately though, I only drink after she's gone to bed and nursed, so by the time she nurses again (the next night) it's out of my system. On the rare occassion that I get DRUNK, I don't take her into bed with me at night, and have my mom take the night shift. I'm a pretty heavy sleeper normally, and I'm just TERRIFIED as to what could happen....


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## Ms Ladybug (Dec 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jeaninevp922* 
"Light drinking" (defined as one drink or less per day) is *not* contraindicated while breastfeeding. The rule of thumb is basically, if you can feel it, so can babe. When I drink, I make sure i drink slowly, not on an empty stomach, and not more than one drink per day - after so many years of pregnancy and breastfeeding, my tolerance is low. Alcohol passes freely into and out of breastmilk. When it's no longer in your bloodstream, it's no longer in your milk. Also, babies under three months old have immature livers, and can't process alcohol as well, so common sense would say to take it easier if you're bfing a small babe.


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## chefjulie (Jan 3, 2004)

I voted very rarely because it is definately less than once a week but had been more like once every month or so (with a really nice dinner!) - though up until last night's glass of wine, it had been nearly a year since my last glass







Ironically, I had just poured myself a glass of wine to sit down to catch up at MDC and found this thread!









So, now that I read at Kellymom about the infant liver metabolizing the alcohol (which I hadn't thought through before), I will refrain for a few more months until my nursling is older and bigger - that said, I have a question about timing drinks.

I don't understand why it says to avoid nursing while drinking. Since the wine does not go from mouth to nipple in a direct flow, wouldn't it make the most sense to nurse WHILE drinking? The milk in the ducts would be alcohol free and then by the time mom's body metabolizes the alcohol, it wouldn't really be sitting in the milk at all.... no?

Can someone throw some clarification in there for me?


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## Ms Ladybug (Dec 29, 2004)

Alcohol doesn't really sit in the milk at all. It passes in and out as it does your bloodstream. I think there's a lot depending on the timing. Are you drinking on an empty stomach? How strong is the alcohol in your drink, etc..
Sometimes, depending on what your drinking, it doesn't take long to feel the effects of the alcohol. This is because it has already entered into your bloodstream. Same with it entering into your milk.
It all depends...


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## chefjulie (Jan 3, 2004)

Yes, this does make sense... so:

nursing while doing tequilla shots = bad idea

nursing while eating a wonderful dinner while drinking a nice pinot noir = better idea


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## Jenlaana (Oct 28, 2005)

I understand that everyone has their demons, and because of that, I just feel very bad for people who have taken this conversation way out of context.









Life should be about balance, about having a glass of wine, but not a DOZEN glasses of wine, about taking a walk with your kids, but not trying to run a marathon with no training... about having a slice of cake but not a WHOLE cake.

To me, everything in life is about moderation and balance and finding your perfect position within it all.


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## aiccerb (Dec 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 







Yeah you know me, kicking back on the sofa in the living room, beer always in hand.









:

Im picturing a new smiley here at mdc


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

: not in this lifetime!


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## polishprinsezz (Dec 31, 2006)

no need to be so harsh. i only drink once or twice a mo. but i really dont think she is talking about heavy users. our bodies having a wonderful way of making our babies come first.


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## LeslieB (Feb 17, 2006)

I like to have a beer or glass of wine maybe once a week. I love good beer and wine.


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## taradt (Jun 10, 2003)

I voted rarely, mainly because I have never been big on beer or wine (except for those few years in high school







). With DD I didn't have a drink when I was nursing her, I never felt like one. With DS I did have a couple of bailey's lattes during the holidays and boy did I enjoy it









tara


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## smallmama (Dec 6, 2006)

I voted "very rarely." I splashed out last week at my book club and had 2 glasses of wine, and had 2 glasses of wine 1 night in December. That's it in the 6 months since DS has been born (plus, of course, the 9 months before that). I wasn't feeling it anymore by the time I BFed him afterwards, so I'm fine with it. If I were to drink more, I may go the EBM in a bottle route, but the occasional glass of wine won't do either of us any harm.


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## Ilaria (Jan 14, 2002)

We drink wine with our dinner (I'm Italian







) and did so even when BFing. I might have a beer or two as well, but it's not like I ever got drunk or anything. My kids never seemed affected at all.

(I was pregnant or/and nursing for 4+ years straight...a woman's gotta enjoy life a bit!)


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## TiAmosJewell (Dec 14, 2006)

I voted very rarley. I'll have one drink on the average of every 2 and a half weeks. I didn't in the beginning only when he started sleeping longer at night


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## papercranegirl (Jun 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *spughy* 
Drinking isn't just about getting drunk or tipsy or even relaxing. Wine, beer and high-quality liquors are all about aesthetic appreciation, much like fine art, and if that's not your bag, that's fine, but there's no need to make those of us who appreciate the bouquet of a great burgundy or the finish on an good microbrewed wheat beer feel like we're body-hating lushes because of it.










Sometimes I cultivate my tastebuds with a glass 2 or 3 times a week and other times I will go monhs without a drink. We're pretty open to talking about the responsible use of alcohol and the nature of addiction since we have family that do have substance abuse issues. But there's a big difference between abuse and occasional use.


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## chinacat01 (Jan 17, 2007)

***JUST CURIOUS*** what would happend is someone smokes pot and bfs?? How long does it stay in your system? and does it get passed on to baby?


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## guestmama9906 (Feb 12, 2003)

I imbibe a few times a week, and I have noticed that this baby absolutely HATES it when I drink red wine. She cannot abide my milk if I've had any red wine, and believe me, I've tested to make sure


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cicerosum* 
I imbibe a few times a week, and I have noticed that this baby absolutely HATES it when I drink red wine. She cannot abide my milk if I've had any red wine, and believe me, I've tested to make sure









Better stick to the sweet drinks like Bailey's.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Never while breastfeeding, never while pregnant.

AA says that someone who drinks one drink a day probably is an alcoholic. At least that's what they told us during the one week of full-time family counseling we went through when my brother was in a lock down addiction facility in his teens.

These threads always bring out the drinkers, don't they?







:


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## salmontree (Mar 29, 2004)

We have a weekly poker game with friends and that's the only time I'll drink. I usually have one or two beers. I dislike being drunk so I never drink much more than that.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverSky* 
AA says that someone who drinks one drink a day probably is an alcoholic.

Which would mean just about every European would qualify. In many cultures, one glass of wine with dinner is normal.


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## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:

AA says that someone who drinks one drink a day probably is an alcoholic.
I will forward this to Europe, where it is the norm for everyone to have a glass of wine with dinner.

*sigh* All those alcoholics.

Julia
dd 10 mos









Sunnyside - just saw your post.


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverSky* 
AA says that someone who drinks one drink a day probably is an alcoholic. At least that's what they told us during the one week of full-time family counseling we went through when my brother was in a lock down addiction facility in his teens.

This isn't quite accurate. AA does seem to have a more nuanced view. Someone who gets drunk every day...or a teenager who drinks every day...I don't know. But here's what they say for themselves:

http://www.aa.org/en_is_aa_for_you.cfm?PageID=71


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## guestmama9906 (Feb 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
Better stick to the sweet drinks like Bailey's.









I'm sure she'd like that, but I can't take liquor/liquers. So very very wrong








I suppose I'll just stick with that trusty standby,

Mmmm....beer.


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## gwynthfair (Mar 17, 2006)

I voted a couple of times a week, although I could go a couple weeks without, and then one week have wine every night...I don't really think about it that much.

If you avoid every possible toxin (alcohol, tylenol, etc.), exercise religiously and eat a 100% balanced diet, 100% organic, 100% of the time, you'd be exceptionally healthy, but would you really be that happy? (In fact, you might have OCD if this were the case.)

I like to have a little wine now and again, a little chocolate here and there and gasp! a decaf latte on rare occasions. Sometimes I even eat McDonald's french fries!!!!







:

OBVIOUSLY things can be overdone. Doesn't that go without saying among this group of intelligent ladies?!

I will say that when I have had a glass of wine, I put DD in her co-sleeper instead of next to me....just in case.


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## DBZ (Aug 9, 2005)

I've had a few sips on holidays. I don't think it's anything to get wicked uptight over. However, I don't think it's necessary. I don't understand why it's so hard to avoid. It's so wasteful in so many ways. I could get on my soapbox here but I'm nakking and I hate typing one handed.


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## amyandelle (Jul 5, 2004)

I didn't vote because I won't drink while nursing a newborn but I might have a glass of wine every now and then after she is 9 months or so.

I didn't have a drop of alcohol while nursing Elle until she was over a year. I did get pretty drunk (like a bottle of wine) a few times but she was eating some solids at that point and I would just make sure I was completly sober before nursing her. I was pretty excited to see the milk screen tests!! I am definatly going to buy some once I start to drink wine again just to be sure that it is safe to nurse









Amy


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ccohenou* 
This isn't quite accurate. AA does seem to have a more nuanced view. Someone who gets drunk every day...or a teenager who drinks every day...I don't know. But here's what they say for themselves:

http://www.aa.org/en_is_aa_for_you.cfm?PageID=71

I couldn't find anywhere at that link that referenced having a drink every day. What are you referring to? Could you please quote the relevant passage? It is definitely accurate that that is what they told us in the lock down addiction facility.

This is what I found in a different section of that site:

Quote:

_*Am I an alcoholic?
*_ If you repeatedly drink more than you intend or want to, if you get into trouble, or if you have memory lapses when you drink, you may be an alcoholic. Only you can decide. No one in A.A. will tell you whether you are or not.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Romana9+2*
I will forward this to Europe, where it is the norm for everyone to have a glass of wine with dinner.

*sigh* All those alcoholics.

My family is European and I have spent extended periods of time in 4 different European countries (and smaller amounts in other countries) with family and friends. Not everyone drinks a glass of wine (or any sort of drink with alcohol) with every meal and the ones that I knew who did, were definitely alcoholics and were a small percentage of those I ate with. I would say it was the norm to rarely drink, except with one Italian family I stayed with and they grew their own grapes and made their own wine, then again, there were constant parties there due to my visit and I don't think they always had so many dinner parties.

The idea that it is more common for Europeans to drink wine with dinner than those in the U.S. or Canada is silly, I think. It'd be interesting to see some kind of statistics on how much alcohol is sold per capita in the different countries.


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverSky* 
I couldn't find anywhere at that link that referenced having a drink every day. What are you referring to? Could you please quote the relevant passage? It is definitely accurate that that is what they told us in the lock down addiction facility.

Sorry I was unclear; I agree that the page doesn't say that having a drink every day means you are an alcoholic. I don't doubt that someone said that to you, but based on AA's materials, I don't think that is an accurate description of the AA position. Their position is the one you quoted, that it's being unable to stop when you want to and causing negative consequences, not how often you have one drink.
The people I have known in AA would say that if you are able to have one drink with dinner on a regular basis without going on to have six more after dinner, you're probably NOT an alcoholic, as alcoholics don't really have 'just one.'
Anyway, sorry for the digression.


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## QuietTempest (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverSky* 
Never while breastfeeding, never while pregnant.


That's pretty much how I feel about it. So long as my little ones are relying on my body to nourish them, be it in utero or through breastmilk, I'd rather not expose them to toxins regardless of how _relaxing_ or _enjoyable_ it might be for me. Of course, I've never been very fond of drinking anyway and developed an aversion for the taste and feel of alcohol after my first pregnancy anyway, so it's not a big issue for us.


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## my3peanuts (Nov 25, 2006)

I have drank alcohol twice since having ds and the last time I nursed him 7 hours after I drank and he definitely felt the affects. Very drowsy.


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## Ilaria (Jan 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RiverSky* 
Not everyone drinks a glass of wine (or any sort of drink with alcohol) with every meal and the ones that I knew who did, were definitely alcoholics and were a small percentage of those I ate with. I would say it was the norm to rarely drink, except with one Italian family I stayed with and they grew their own grapes and made their own wine, then again, there were constant parties there due to my visit and I don't think they always had so many dinner parties.

The idea that it is more common for Europeans to drink wine with dinner than those in the U.S. or Canada is silly, I think.

I am from Italy and I have *never* met a family who didn't have wine on their dinner or lunch table in my whole life. Ever. I have known 1 alcoholic
in Italy, everyone knew about her problem and it was considered as such.

Quote:

It'd be interesting to see some kind of statistics on how much alcohol is sold per capita in the different countries.
That wouldn't tell you much. One alcoholic might buy and drink the same amount of wine as a family of 4.


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## Ilaria (Jan 14, 2002)

Quote:

AA says that someone who drinks one drink a day probably is an alcoholic.
IF that's true, that's the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Quote:

be it in utero or through breastmilk, I'd rather not expose them to toxins regardless of how relaxing or enjoyable it might be for me.
I'll have a glass of wine before GMOs, preservatives in food and medicated birth.


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## Ilaria (Jan 14, 2002)

From Wikipedia:

Quote:

Alcoholism is the consumption of or *preoccupation* with alcoholic beverages to the extent that *this behavior interferes with the alcoholic's normal personal, family, social, or work life*.
From Dictionary.com:

Quote:

al·co·hol·ism /ˈælkəhɔˌlɪzəm, -hɒ-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[al-kuh-haw-liz-uhm, -ho-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
-noun Pathology. a *chronic disorder characterized by dependence* on alcohol, *repeated excessive use* of alcoholic beverages, the *development of withdrawal symptoms* on reducing or ceasing intake, *morbidity* that may include cirrhosis of the liver, and *decreased ability to function* socially and vocationally.
Different than a drink a day, much different.


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## Bellejar (Oct 2, 2005)

I think I have had maybe three drinks all on special occasions in the last 17 months. With my first daughter I had maybe one. I think in Four years I have consumed way less than a six pack. Although very occasionally I have a nonalcoholic beer as well.

I just don't really think it is good for my kids, no matter how much goes through the breast milk. I also have alcoholism in my family so I am sure I wouldn't drink a ton anyway.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I couldn't vote, I don't drink but not because I believe it's unhealthy, just because I choose not to drink for religious reasons.


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## homemademomma (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *QuietTempest* 
So long as my little ones are relying on my body to nourish them, be it in utero or through breastmilk, I'd rather not expose them to toxins regardless of how _relaxing_ or _enjoyable_ it might be for me.

do you eat artificial colors or flavors? preservatives? aspirin? caffeine?


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