# Why aren't you a vegan or vegetarian?



## ian'smommaya (Jun 7, 2004)

I would love to know why you are not a vegan or vegetarian! I'll start. So as a young person I worked in a BBQ place as the dessert chef. I was vegan then and tried my bestest to do it right but just didn't feel right, ya know? So I went back to eating fish and eggs. Now I eat meat because of allergies my diet is already limited and to be healthy I need to not be vegan. I eat tons of produce, not much meat and eggs and cheese (YUMMMMMM cheese!)

How about you?


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## ananas (Jun 6, 2006)

This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. For me, my body just feels better when I get animal protein. I tend to be anemic and without meat, I feel very low and get headaches and I feel rundown. I've been trying to eat meat from the most humane sources whenever possible, and I switch it up with other protein sources, but I don't know if I could ever fully give up meat.


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## Oread (Aug 12, 2012)

I also tend to have low iron and that makes me feel totally miserable, and eating red meat is definitely the best way for me to get that (non-animal sources of iron are non-heme and not easily absorbed). I have tried a variety of different diets - vegan, vegetarian, and paleo and ultimately I just feel best when eating a whole-foods based omnivorous diet. It's also the least stressful for me since I don't have to spend a lot of money and effort looking for specialty food items, supplements that I think are questionable, and so forth.

Also importantly, I don't have an ethical problem with eating meat. I do have some major problems with the industrial food system and how many of the animals are terribly mistreated, but I do think it is possible to raise animals for food in an ethical and humane way.


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## Alenushka (Jul 27, 2002)

I feel better with animal protein. Year ago a Chinese herbalist told me to add animal protein to my died to feel better. My Western doctor tested me and discovered serious Vit B issues. Most likely because I had intrisic factor issues.

I feel much better with animal protein but I still have awesome cooking skills with veggies etc and i can make vegan food for friends.


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## Mosaic (Jun 20, 2005)

Personally, I believe our bodies are made to eat meat. From the vitamins that we need, to the way our teeth are shaped and how our digestive system works, it makes sense to me from a biological/physiological POV.

That said, I eat veg at least 80% of the time; and when I do prepare meat, it's almost always a minor ingredient in the meal and not a standalone entrée. For example, I make a killer turkey sausage which is 1 lb ground turkey and 2 lbs veggies, and then I serve that in tacos (with more veggie toppings) or spaghetti sauce (more veggies and pasta), etc.

Cooking meat is a pain and expensive, and the environmental impact can't be ignored. But I like it and feel that it can play a role in a healthy, modern diet.


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## JamieCatheryn (Dec 31, 2005)

In my family when we eat meals with little or no meat we are still hungry and binge on carbs and dairy. Then we gain weight and suffer hypoglycemia and inflammation. Also beans and grains have a lot of anti-nutrients and troubling chemicals in their make-up. My husband doesn't tolerate lactose well either.


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## sillysapling (Mar 24, 2013)

Echoing the "feel better with animal protein". I have really bad digestive problems- meat is something that consistently is easy on it. I buy the most ethical meat I can. I hate the conditions on too many farms- I think eating meat is natural, the way that we treat livestock is NOT.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

For starters, I firmly believe that humans are an omnivorous species. The fact we can't get at least 1 vital nutrient without animal protein is a pretty obvious sign of that, even if we ignore our teeth and history. We probably did eat a lot less meat, but it was still a vital component of the human diet for all our history.

I'm not a huge fan or vegetables in general. I make myself (& my kids) eat them because they're good for us. Vegan and vegetarian replacements for things I do like are generally dry and nasty. We try to avoid soy in large quantities.

Then there's my husband's medical issues. He can't eat high fibre foods, except in extremely limited quantities at distant intervals. This sucks because I have a wonderful baked beans recipe. Most vegetarian and vegan meals seem to rely on things like legumes, which are high fibre. Removing meat from our diets would make it impossible for him to get enough protein because everything suggested for protein for vegan diets is also high fibre.

Finally, I'm lazy and have serious energy issues until my hypothyroid is properly medicated. Creating a vegetarian or vegan diet that contains the essential nutrients is a lot harder than creating an omnivorous diet that does the same thing. Plus, there's a lot more peeling and cutting required.







I find myself going to processed stuff too much as it is because of not enough energy to make something without adding in all the extra for enough vegetables to make an entire meal (since I'm pretty certain frozen mixed veggies doesn't make a meal, even with some rice).

I'm sure I missed something. I am trying to come up with a few meatless meals that everyone is willing and able to eat, but I don't think zucchini parmesan is exactly a nightly meal.


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## Ragana (Oct 15, 2002)

Similar reasoning to what was already said above. I was vegetarian (lacto-ovo) for 5 years, then for another several years only ate meat out occasionally, but did not cook it at home - until I got pregnant and was anemic. Started eating meat again. Now our family has three omnivores and one mostly vegetarian. DD eats fish and shellfish occasionally, but is otherwise lacto-ovo. I have dabbled in Eat to Live, but find it very difficult to follow the diet fully. We incorporate aspects of that in our diet. Honestly, if I go by how my body feels, I prefer omni and an even mix of carb/protein/veg (something like fish, rice and salad, or chicken, broccoli and noodles). We now only buy the organic meat from Costco. I also have quite a few vegetarian and vegan meals in the mix since DD doesn't eat meat, or I make the meat on the side.


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## Backroads (May 4, 2013)

Simple answer: I'm lazy. I don't love meat (do like it), don't eat it a heck of a lot, but have never made the effort to wean myself off it.

Complex answer: I see no reason to go vegetarian/vegan. I see a lot of cultural history in meat and animal products. While I'm against factory processing of animals, I highly admire the work of small farmers/ranchers, hunters who respect their prey, etc. I believe one can respect the environment and animals as much as anyone else while still being an omnivore.


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## monkeyscience (Feb 5, 2008)

The short answer is because I haven't found a compelling reason to be vegetarian/vegan.

The long answer is that I don't feel it's intrinsically unethical to eat animals, though I agree with many on this thread about the ickiness of modern food production. I'm a Christian, and the Bible tells us that God gave us the animals to eat. I'm also a biologist, and see ample evidence that it is biologically normal for us to consume meat. (On the basis of biology, I would actually be more likely to give up dairy products than meat - what other species consumes milk of any kind, let alone from another species, in adulthood??) Also, I like meat. It is tasty. I don't know that I've ever spent enough time eating vegetarian/vegan to know if I feel better physically eating meat, but I know I feel better eating more protein and less carbs.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ian'smommaya*
> 
> Now I eat meat because of allergies my diet is already limited and to be healthy I need to not be vegan.


Allergies forced me to eat more meat. I suppose I could subsist on pinto beans alone, with some yogurt and cheese and sunflower seeds, but as far a veg protein that's about all I can eat. I am allergic to all nuts, soy, eggs, peas, lentils, many other beans, most grains, and mushrooms, plus I am sensitive to lactose, and have an upper limit on the amount of dairy I can consume. I do eat more meat than I should, but it would be a sorry diet indeed if I tried to be a vegetarian again.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oread*
> 
> Also importantly, I don't have an ethical problem with eating meat. I do have some major problems with the industrial food system and how many of the animals are terribly mistreated, but I do think it is possible to raise animals for food in an ethical and humane way.


I have no problem with ethically raised meat, but I also still have trouble with making profit off an animal's death. So, while I eat organic and locally raised meats, my ideal is to be self-sufficient with the meat I consume, or trade some with my hunting neighbor. It is important to me that the animals can live a calm, natural life until their last seconds in this world. I also have ethical questions about animals that are produced and raised specifically for meat production (even if I personally raised them) instead of, say, a consequence of some other animal product (eating cockerels and culled hens, for example, or, to a lesser extent, calves from dairy animals.) The amount of meat we eat is a sticky issue in my mind as well. But in general, I have no ethical problem with animals being destroyed so that we might eat them, converting what is inedible for humans (grass, many bugs and snakes and mice, etc.) into something edible. It's the circumstances of their life and death that I have issues with.


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## erigeron (Oct 29, 2010)

I believe it's biologically normal for us to eat meat.

My husband would never give up meat; he gets testy when I make vegetarian dishes too many nights in a row. I am not organized enough to make two different versions of half of our meals.

Now that I'm pregnant, meat is practically the only thing that keeps me from being hungry an hour later.

We do try to eat ethically/locally, but I admit we fail a lot. It is a goal.


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## manysplinters (Oct 1, 2012)

I hunt for my meat, or help the farmers who raised it kill it, or I fish for it. I only infrequently eat mass-produced meat. I have a hard time biting my tongue when vegetarians who consume dairy get on about not eating meat (how do they think they obtained their dairy, if not through the impregnation of animals and the eventual slaughter of their young?) On the other hand, though, I don't think people should kid themselves that hunted animals necessarily have calm and peaceful lives (a lot of moose where I live, for example, will bear the scars and sometimes fresh wounds of encounters with predators) nor that an animal dying through a rifle bullet will necessarily die a magical and peaceful death (it really does not always happen that way, despite the best intentions of the hunter). I grew up eating hunted meat, and I hope my kids can too. It certainly forces a pretty serious internal conversation with yourself when you are about to kill an animal like a moose. I could never take that lightly, or without a huge feeling of sadness and gratitude. I feel a greater degree of security in local, known meat sources than I do in a bucket of soybeans from who knows where. I know for sure beans do not grow well within thousands of kilometers of my home, which to me is an important factor in choosing my protein sources.


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## Tuesday (Mar 3, 2003)

I have confused thoughts on this issue!

I was vegan for about 18 years. During that time, I suffered a lot of health issues including development of a dramatic autoimmune condition. I have friends who have only recently turned vegan and consider it an answer to all health issues - it was not, so, for me. I think there's an idea that people can completely control "bad" health issues and by eating vegetarian, vegan, raw, etc - it will control and prevent all negative health issues. Not so. I also find I feel very ungrounded and airy, if I'm only eating vegan. I need the protein, it seems to temper this airiness. And, I'm allergic to soy (and fish, for that matter) so tofu is out. I do eat a lot of vegetables however.

My husband is definitely an inflexible carnivore and since marrying him, the animal protein has made it more frequently to our plates. Like Erigeron, there's a testiness that develops if he's not eating meat. (Sigh)

That said, it bothers me we eat slaughtered animals. However, above in this thread, there are a lot of interesting thoughts to process so perhaps this is something I can come to terms with, one day.

*I should mention too: once, when I was vegan, a friend offered me some extra chicken from her lunch. I declined the offer. She, being from the Philippines, said, with a bit of frustration, " You know, the country I come from ... people are starving. They scrape roadkill off the ground to eat". Her point was the act of avoiding certain foods was something one could only do when they had access to much food and wealth. For a person starving, there is no 'vegan' or "gluten-free' - only eating to survive.*


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## pepperedmoth (Jun 14, 2013)

1.) To expand my local food options.

We have backyard hens fed largely on our food scraps, so we have a cheap and reliable source of sustainable protein. My husband hunts and fishes --- ditto. (Well, the fishing is MUCH more reliable than the hunting!)

I do eat non-local meats, but I try to be mindful. Some months I'm much 'better' than others.

2.) Because I am just much happier as an omnivore. I know I CAN be a veg*n --- have done so, sometimes for years at a time --- but in the end life is short, I ADORE food, and while some people find that their culinary range expands when the become veg*n (can no longer eat meat'n'potatoes every day), I find my food world dramatically shrinks. And that makes me sad.

3.) I'm not perfectly convinced that strict veg*nism is any better for the environment than eating mostly vegetables, but allowing for some flexibility --- ESPECIALLY if most of the flexibility involves local food.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pepperedmoth*
> 
> 3.) I'm not perfectly convinced that strict veg*nism is any better for the environment than eating mostly vegetables, but allowing for some flexibility --- ESPECIALLY if most of the flexibility involves local food.


I'm also not convinced that vegetarianism is better for the environment that mindful meat and animal product consumption. I think the most sustainable farm systems are those that include animals in some capacity, and rotational-pasture based farms are some of the most sustainable. Of course, this assumes a small scale. Large-scale agriculture of any kind is problematic.

But this is not "why" I still it meat. It is more how I can feel ethically justified.


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## pattimomma (Jul 17, 2009)

I like steak. I like it rare. Please excuse me while I bite this cow


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## JudiAU (Jun 29, 2008)

I think eating meat is part of the human experience and has been forever. I accept that animals are raised for food and don't have objections to normal, pastured animal husbandry followed by slaughter.

I also think eating CAFO meat is indefensible. We don't buy it and try to avoid in restaurants. I need to work on avoiding it in restaurants more completely. If that was the only option available we wouldn't eat meat.


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## mariamadly (Jul 28, 2009)

Food allergies in my family: to eggs, soybeans, peanuts, tree nuts, various seeds. Lots of really good protein sources eliminated from our diet.


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## VocalMinority (Apr 8, 2009)

My husband and I were both raised with meat as the main dish, every single night.

As an adult, nothing has convinced me that humans aren't meant to consume meat. But I *have* concluded that our standard American portions of meat tend to be much too large and that, as consumers, we ought to be more conscious of production practices (to the extent that we can afford to).

Our parents and grandparents seemed to view a meatless dinner as an indication of poverty. For my husband and me, a week without at least one meatless night indicates a lack of creativity and effort, with meal planning. Besides, we're Catholic and we try to be more observant than our parents were (easy for my husband, who was raised by Baptists!







.) We like the Catholic tradition of abstaining from meat on Fridays, both to focus on the idea of sacrifice (meat being a very small one), and for health. (Although the Church doesn't expect abstention anymore, except during Lent.) Our crew of 3 teenage boys is actually excited when I make veggie lasagna or "Mexican Hoppin' Johns" (layered brown rice and spicy black beans, corn, tomatoes, peppers and onions - a variation of an old southern dish with black-eyed peas and okra).

But they're in the period of peak caloric and protein need, in their lifetimes. They play physically-demanding sports. They crave meat and are usually disappointed and carb-loading, if they don't get it. So, I try to offer smaller portions of meat, using dishes that mix in meat with other ingredients, instead of always having a slab of meat flanked by side dishes. Eating less meat affords us more choice about what meat we buy - although we still can't afford organic, free-range, grass-fed meat from Whole Foods.


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## teamviddy (Aug 15, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tuesday*
> 
> I have confused thoughts on this issue!
> 
> I was vegan for about 18 years. During that time, I suffered a lot of health issues including development of a dramatic autoimmune condition. I have friends who have only recently turned vegan and consider it an answer to all health issues - it was not, so, for me. I think there's an idea that people can completely control "bad" health issues and by eating vegetarian, vegan, raw, etc - it will control and prevent all negative health issues. Not so. I also find I feel very ungrounded and airy, if I'm only eating vegan. I need the protein, it seems to temper this airiness. And, I'm allergic to soy (and fish, for that matter) so tofu is out. I do eat a lot of vegetables however.


It's good to hear your voice Tuesday! I was vegan for 12 years. For the first 10 years I felt amazing. Then I started getting the airy feeling you describe. Besides being overweight my health appeared to be perfect. I wasn't anemic, my blood pressure was fantastic, thyroid, eyesight, etc. were all OK-- so the airiness didn't seem to have any explanation besides my diet. I began eating eggs, then goat dairy (cow dairy was a big reason I felt bad before going vegan), then fish, then birds, then some red meat. It took quite some time but I finally landed back on earth.

I am still seriously struggling with the idea. Being vegan worked so well for me for so long, and I hate the idea of eating the bodies of animals. I don't feel like I have much of a choice these days, unless I want to move to a mountain ashram where I don't have to deal with reality. Part of me wishes I didn't take literally years to come to terms with it... I was running a business that was doing well. Eventually I couldn't focus well and got anxious about small things and the business fell apart. I have always lived in my head and not my body, and it has always taken me forever to figure out what my body needs.

I am sorry to hear about your health condition-- are you feeling better? Even when I was an enthusiastic vegan I couldn't stand it when people would suggest that being vegan or raw was the answer to all health issues. Humans are obviously meant to eat meat and eggs (dairy-- that's not so certain). There are also the folks who claim that a plant-based diet is the root of all health problems. The bottom line is that you can only eat for your own body type. I believe you can survive for a long time very healthfully by following a plant-based diet, so I don't want to knock it. But it's so important to listen to what your body needs.


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## organicmom3 (Oct 7, 2009)

Because i know we need proteins from animals. I'm actually invesigating the Paleo, Omni and primal diets. Grains are not good.


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## maschauk (Sep 25, 2013)

I feel most happy on a vegtarian, cheese free diet, with lots of greens and seaweed, but I can imagine other people pdo refer eating meat.

It's great that there are so many different ways to feed ourselves and our children!


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## amandaspeters (Jan 29, 2013)

I was born and raised a vegetarian and only within the last 6 month s have started eating meat. I always thought it was better to not eat animal products till I did some reading and couldn't ignore any longer what I had learned. (The Weston A. Price foundation changed my life) Obviously it is not good to support factory meat farms... so we don't. We eat small portions of high quality and humanely treated meat as our bodies were intended to do. I don't think we were intended to eat giant portions of factory farmed meat and most people would agree that that's not very healthy!


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## amandaspeters (Jan 29, 2013)

I still struggle with the fact that another being had to die for our nourishment, but it helps when I remind myself that the food chain is not actually a line, but a circle... We all feed each other. When we die our bodies become food for the plants and animals that need us to thrive and they feed the bigger animals ect.

That zucchini NEEDS the blood and bones of an animal to grow tasty and Delicious and full of nourishment to feed a so called 'Vegan'.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amandaspeters*
> 
> I still struggle with the fact that another being had to die for our nourishment, but it helps when I remind myself that the food chain is not actually a line, but a circle... We all feed each other. When we die our bodies become food for the plants and animals that need us to thrive and they feed the bigger animals ect.
> 
> That zucchini NEEDS the blood and bones of an animal to grow tasty and Delicious and full of nourishment to feed a so called 'Vegan'.


Don't forget the poo. Pasture and grasslands do not thrive because predators die and lay their bodies and bones behind. It grows because grazing animals poo all over the place, and vultures feeding on dead predators poo there, too. The Lion King wouldn't have been so poetic if the Circle of Life was all about animal feces. Not to mention the palatability of that zucchini.


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## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SweetSilver*
> 
> The Lion King wouldn't have been so poetic if the Circle of Life was all about animal feces.


Lol!

I'm not a vegetarian because I like meat, feel better when I eat it, and don't have an ethical problem with eating it.

We incorporate meat into our dinners maybe 3-4 times per week, mostly because I buy expensive humanely raised meat. I have talked with my kids about mindful consumption, even with produce (buying local/organic when possible).


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## lamom3girls (Sep 26, 2013)

I thought I'd chime in since no one on this thread actually said they preferred a veg or vegan diet. I am not at all opposed to people eating meat, and in fact, my husband eats chicken regularly. But I would like to make the argument that a vegetarian diet can feel great. I've been a vegetarian my entire adult like, and I'm raising my 3 kids vegetarian. My kids eat lots of dairy, but I try to limit my dairy so I'm mostly vegan though not totally. I'm Indian American, so I come from generations of vegetarians (and no, I'm not a vegetarian for religious reasons, but many of my family members are). I know dozens if not more of lifelong vegetarians and they are healthy, strong, and haven't faced any problems resulting from diet, with the exception of those people who eat too much fat and sweets, and that can result in high blood pressure, diabetes, etc. as well. A vegetarian diet is not innately healthy - loading up solely on potato chips and fries would still make you a vegetarian. I think what's most important is eating healthy and feeling good about it, which is entirely possible for vegetarians.


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## Paxjourney (Mar 27, 2007)

I was a vegetarian from the age of 13 til about 16 (I did consume dairy and eggs). Gradually I started to consume meat again. Then at age 20 I married a hunter, meat and potatoes sort of guy. Currently for dinner we tend to have two meatless meals a week. One egg based meal a week (we've got 5 chickens), two meals tend to be meat center dishes and then the others tend to have meal more as a garnish. Sometimes our two "meatless" meals might have some meat as a flavoring but not as the focus of the dish.

I'd go back to vegetarian again with little worry, Though I do like bacon a lot. Vegan seems to restrictive for me personally. As for my whole family I have little doubt that any of them would follow along.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

I can do meatless 2-3 nights a week but like many said here... I feel better and stronger on a meaty diet. I do try to eat organic and local as much as possible. Or at least as much as my wallet can take!

You know we do have canine teeth for ripping and tearing rare meat.. I think that says a lot about what humans evolved to eat.









I ran a new mom's support group for seven years and countless vegetarians would tell me that even after a lifetime of veggie eating that they craved meat in pregnancy. And a few continued to crave meat while nursing.


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## BirdieC (Nov 29, 2010)

Gosh I'm so glad you wrote this. I was a vegetarian for a long time for ethical reasons (10 billion land animals raised and slaughtered every year in inhumane conditions), the environment (eating meat is the biggest contributor to greenhouse gas emissions), but I never thought about my health. Instead of eating plant proteins, I just ate carbs and felt sick. So instead of eating plant proteins I started eating meat again. I felt awful for the animals, but I found a way to make peace. I eat cats and dogs. Since millions of healthy cats and dogs are euthanized in shelters each year in the US, I figure their flesh is as good as any cow, pig, or chicken. I feel great and have found a way to quiet my conscience.


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## slammerkin (Nov 11, 2012)

I could be vegan for myself fairly easily, but my DH is a meat n' potatoes loving guy and he'd never give up meat. When we got married he started doing most of the cooking so it was plenty of meat all the time. I think I felt the best when I was eating mostly fruit/veg during the day and then having whatever meat dish he made for dinner. It gave a decent balance. My diet has been dramatically different in pregnancy - way more protein and dairy and eggs than I ever would have had before. I don't really want to continue eating this way after birth, so hopefully I can go back to my old diet a bit. I'm not morally opposed to eating animals, but I feel better when I have less milk in my diet at least.

We have not invested much thought in the meat we buy, which I am starting to think we should. I know conventional farming practices are terrible in this country, so I'm going to start thinking about this and maybe change the meat we buy, if I can get him on board. He's from another country where meat is much more humanely produced, so I don't think he's aware of how bad some of the meat we buy here probably is.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BirdieC*
> 
> Gosh I'm so glad you wrote this. I was a vegetarian for a long time for ethical reasons (10 billion land animals raised and slaughtered every year in inhumane conditions), the environment (eating meat is the biggest contributor to greenhouse gas emissions), but I never thought about my health. Instead of eating plant proteins, I just ate carbs and felt sick. So instead of eating plant proteins I started eating meat again. I felt awful for the animals, but I found a way to make peace. I eat cats and dogs. Since millions of healthy cats and dogs are euthanized in shelters each year in the US, I figure their flesh is as good as any cow, pig, or chicken. I feel great and have found a way to quiet my conscience.


I'm guessing your sarcastic post is in criticism of folks posting on this thread? The points you raise are not from "eating meat", they are from the modern industrial system, created to satisfy people's overconsumption and expectation of cheap and bland. Methane can be reduced by reducing or removing grain from an undulant's diet. Of course, reducing meat consumption (and waste!) is imperative. Most folks posting here are well aware of the ethical implications of industrial meat. There are still further ethical questions of taking any animal life for food, but that is separate from environmental issues. Lastly, many of us are unable to rely on vegetable protein due to allergies.

Your post is very troll-ish, but I checked on your other 4 posts, and those are far from, so I'm responding to this when otherwise I probably shouldn't.

Your sarcastic post could have addressed these same issues with grace and intelligence. As it was, it left excellent, pro-veg arguments out of it. The ones you mentioned are flimsy, easily refuted points made easier by the tone you brought into this thread.


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## lisa landen (Mar 7, 2012)

What a great topic! I was a vegetarian for 13 years of my life, starting from the time I was in 9th grade to the time my first child was 2 years old. I learned the hard way that for some people, a vegetarian diet during critical times such as puberty and childbearing can very negative health consequences. When I finally saw a natural health care practitioner who discovered I was allergic to soy and had severe hormonal imbalances and nutritional deficiencies that had caused severe cystic acne, premature aging, depression, and menstrual problems--at this point I threw out the tofu and fake meat and that my diet was messing up my thyroid and hormonal balance, I did a total lifestyle overhaul. I adapted a few different diets until I found what worked for me--all consisting of whole, organic foods AND meat, and also raw milk, pastured butter, cod liver oil, and probiotics and organic fruits and veggies, but limited grains and no gluten. That was 7 years ago. I am now 35 years old, and I believe that my dietary change saved my life. I believe that if I were still a vegetarian, I would have lost all of my teeth to decay, be plagued with terrible acne, and have horrible menstrual cramps, and have depression and fatigue. All of those problems I was plagued with earlier in my life have been alleviated by quitting my vegetarian diet! I think it's awesome, and also a testament to the fact that your body does not care about politics or idealism--it just cares about what it needs.


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## lisa landen (Mar 7, 2012)

Birdie C, Do you live in China? I know that unusual meats are consumed there, including dog. It's always good to remember that where we've grown up is the culture we adapt to and food is very much about culture. In many parts of the world, people are starving and will eat anything that they can. Here in the US, we are very elite and privileged to even have the OPTION of not eating a particular food group and caring more about animals than we care about ourselves. We are so fortunate to have the options we have.


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## lisa landen (Mar 7, 2012)

Lamom3girls,

What a nice perspective. I feel the same as you--I accept what other people do and have no need to judge them. Each person is different and has different needs. A veggie diet damaged my health, despite my trying hard to "do it right". It's too high-glycemic for me and lacks the animal fats I need for hormonal balance. I need lots of butter and meat to keep things in a healthy range and feel terrible on a diet of vegetables and beans. It's important that we give each person room to be themselves and have their own journey, like you do.


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## Staceyy (Jul 21, 2006)

Because I like to eat meat and I function better with it. I have cut down to eating meat only once a day though. I used to include meat with all 3 meals. I am eating more raw foods now.


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## lilblueberry (Jan 18, 2012)

I was vegetarian for 14 years and vegan for 2 of those. Not meat once during that time. Very strict. Then I got pregnant and my body DEMANDED meat. Now I still eat meat and feel so much better. I lost the baby weight so fast. I think it's from eating meat. My body needs it. I hadn't eaten meat my whole adult life and was very curvy. Now I'm not, even after baby. I eat a lot of meat now.


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## KableNEeveesMum (Aug 10, 2013)

meat is delicious!!!


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## ChristmasLover (Dec 2, 2011)

I have tried to be vegan, but after about day 5, I feel sick and nauseated.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Why not?

My family doesn't want to go vegetarian. Even if I was into to it I don't want to spend the emotional energy it would take to gradually teach them and show them it can be done, and keep it up until they get into it.

Meat is easy to cook. Someone a couple weeks ago said meat is harder to cook than veggie dinners. The opposite is true for me. Putting together a nutritious, tasty meatless meal (and that doesn't rely on a lot of cheese to make people happy) is more time consuming and difficult than throwing some meat into the same dish.

We do go meatless a day a week or so. And I get a weekly produce box delivered. Our consumption of fruits and veggies went up when I started that.


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## Adaline'sMama (Apr 16, 2010)

I was vegan and vegetarian for years and I felt like I was ALWAYS dissatisfied. I grazed and grazed and I still just "wanted something." I thought those were issues around poor food habits, but when I started eating meat I instantly felt satisfied. Plus, now that Im not vegetarian, I eat so much less processed food. And, I've lost a ton of weight in the past few months by cutting out most grains and dairy. Meat and veggies make me feel healthy and keep me from filling up on stuff that isnt as good for me. I still eat about 1 serving of dairy a day and 1 serving of grains of legumes, but other than that its primarly veggies, meat, and nuts. I eat so much less than I did when I was veg.


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## KeliG (Jul 10, 2012)

I have gone vegetarian a number of times in my life and it's always health reasons that bring me back to eating animal proteins. The most recent time being the past year ending about a month ago. I don't like the way animals are treated commercially and worry about what is making it into our bodies through their feed and care. But I became anemic in about 3 months this past time and even with liquid iron and Vit B supplementation I struggle to stay healthy. Additionally, my IVF nurse and doctor showed me stats on animal protein helping to support estrogen absorption. Now I just do my best to buy from whole foods and get the top animal welfare rating I can.


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## Jenni1894 (Apr 1, 2011)

Because bacon is soooo good!!!!

But seriously, I feel we were made to be omnivores and local sourced meats give my family better nutrition.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I recall being satisfied with a meal of tofu and vegetables before i ever experienced pregnancy. I ate red meat maybe once a month-i seemed to feel the need for it around menstruation, maybe it was the iron. I would quite happily have become a complete vegetarian. But...when i became pregnant, i HAD to have meat, or i wasnt satisfied. Now, 9 years later, having been pregnant 3 times, and nursed almost continually in that time, i need at least one meal a day with animal protein. Ive come to realize that chicken is the only meat that really satisfies. I like fish, red meat i think is difficult to fully digest..

Put it this way, without animal protein, i feel weak and hungry, and feel my health deteriorating.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

As for being vegan, i practically lived on eggs in my pregnancies. I dont know how i would have done without them had i been vegan. I respect vegans alot though.


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## ilovetchotchkes (Oct 16, 2011)

I was a vegetarian for 6 years. I stopped around the same time I decided to convert to Judaism. Its really really difficult to observe Passover as a vegetarian.

I've been tempted to go back, however, my daughter has developed a dairy allergy and there's no way i'd be able to pull that off. I used dairy as my main protein "back in the day"


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## Jessica C Haney (May 29, 2013)

After several years as a vegetarian (almost vegan), I had terrible acne, digestive problems, depression, and no periods for months. Within a few weeks of just adding in full fat yogurt and eggs and eliminating soy, I ovulated and continued to do so. And I started to feel a lot better. This was as I was being diagnosed with Graves' disease (autoimmune hyperthyroidism) but before I even started medication. During the time I was on medication (10 months), I did a test that showed I was highly reactive to gluten and dairy. Graves' has never came back, and I went on to conceive on the first try twice and have healthy pregnancies. I still have lingering issues from a lifetime of being undiagnosed celiac, and, I think from being terribly depleted in my adrenals due in part to my vegetarian diet. There were other factors, too, but eating a ton of processed soy was clearly no good (!), and eating little to no fat for so long was a real problem from which I think I'm still recovering. No one diet is perfect for everyone, but I do have concerns for the future health of vegetarians and vegans. Sometimes it takes a while for the long-term effects to settle in. I wish I had figured it out earlier!

I have a longer post about this at http://crunchychewymama.com/index.php/why-im-not-a-vegetarian-anymore/

It's a great question! Thanks for asking!


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## Catholic Mama (Nov 7, 2006)

JudiAU, what is CAFO meat?

Like VocalMinority, my family abstains from meat on Fridays for religious reasons. Our Lord Jesus Christ sacrificed Himself for us on the cross, and we make a little sacrifice (not eating meat) out of love for Him and obedience to His Bride, the Church. My husband and I converted to pre-Vatican II (traditional) Catholicism, in which we don't eat meat on Fridays throughout the year, not just Lent. My husband prefers a cheese pizza on Friday nights and when it's a special occasion, like we're with his parents or going out to eat, we'll have seafood.

I've been told I have anemia and while I don't eat steak, I think eating ground beef and chicken probably helps me be healthy, in addition to supplementing with iron-rich blackstrap molasses almost daily.

I've heard that we need to eat fat in order to lose fat, which I would like to do in order to not look pregnant while I'm not, and I agree with people who say meat tastes good. Certain vegetables taste good and certain meats taste good, and they taste so much better together!

I've enjoyed reading this discussion. I second the thanks for asking.


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## Mama Vic (Oct 3, 2013)

Have you read the book "Metabolic Typing"? The author, a physician goes into a lot of detail why some folks function better with meat and others do not. For me, a modified vegetarian diet works the best. I get my protein from eggs and dairy primarily with some from fish. Other sources of animal protein sap my energy.

I know you can derive high quality protein from certain insects, but just haven't been able to bring myself to go that route. Besides, what would my pet spider say if she saw me dipping into her fare?


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## Mama Vic (Oct 3, 2013)

Just make sure that chicken is hormone and antibiotic free.


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## Sphinxy (Oct 4, 2012)

I am not a vegetarian or vegan because:

1. After years of trying to be "healthy" and "food conscious" by substituting some meat and dairy in my diet with soy-based products, I took a doctor's suggestion to eliminate them for a couple weeks to test whether that would resolve my persistent irritable bowel symptoms, and it worked beautifully. Also, I am allergic to tree nuts. So two of the most easily accessible categories of protein sources (at least in the US) for vegetarians/vegans are unavailable to me.

2. I believe that humans are part of the animal kingdom, and eating other species/animal products is no more immoral for us than it is for lions and tigers and bears. However, I also believe that we have a strong responsibility to raise the animals we eat in dignity and respect them as valued members of the food chain. So whenever possible, I use this philosophy in choosing the farmers and ranchers who supply my meat and dairy.


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## BirdieC (Nov 29, 2010)

I've been living without eating animals for so long I've heard all these common responses. It was just so self congratulatory (I'm doing what 94% of the population is doing! Let's talk about why we're part of the overwhelming majority!). And, it's shocking in a community like Mothering. A place where people are supposed to be more aware of how their choices affect the planet. It was just stunning. I did share facts that ARE irrefutable. 10 BILLION land animals (not including sea animals) are raised and slaughtered in the US every year. Eating animals and animal products contributes the largest share of greenhouse gas emissions on this planet. More than all transportation (cars, planes, ships, trains) combined. And that has been verified by two UN reports. Which is why when that report came out the news headlines were about how eating vegan and driving a hummer had a smaller carbon footprint that someone who eats meat but uses a bicycle.

Since 97% of meat, milk, and eggs comes from factory farms, there is zero chance everyone on this thread is sourcing all their animal products form "sustainable" resources. It's not sustainable in any fashion to continue to consume these resource-heavy foods with the current population size. The amount of water used to create one pound of meat could be used to create 16 pounds of grain.

I was being flippant because most people are horrified at the idea of eating cats and dogs, but chickens, pigs, and cows are no different. They are just as, if not moreso, intelligent, emotional, and social. It's complete social conditioning that we choose to eat certain animals and love others. Just as an overwhelming majority eat animals and animal products, an overwhelming majority believe there should be laws to protect animals, even farm animals. As a species, we don't enjoy seeing others suffer. We care about animals and don't want to hurt them. So I know that most people want to do what is kind, but aligning those values with the actions that will show kindness to animals is a step that is difficult for some.

This thread probably knew all of the important points about why eating animals is not sustainable or ethical, which is why they reached out to a community to affirm their continued desire to eat animals despite this knowledge. In a world that is built for people who eat animals, the only reason someone would need to hear other's affirmations is because they are questioning it themselves. Which, obviously, was my chance to be compassionate and kind and try to share the scientific evidence that humans not only thrive on a plant-based diet, but many of the major illnesses in this country are caused by and/or exacerbated by eating animals. But, I'm not perfect. I'm a mother who was up at 5. If you can watch this video from start to finish and still want to talk, that would be amazing: http://www.mercyforanimals.org/farm-to-fridge.aspx


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## Sphinxy (Oct 4, 2012)

*birdie* - You think you were the only mother on mothering up at 5am? Fat chance. I was up at 3, 4, and 5 with contractions. Everyone can point to a reason why they're tired, but that's no excuse for your tone. Your anger prevents people from taking you seriously. I am sick of being lectured by people who have decided that they know what is best for everyone else. You are surprised not to find more like minded people on mothering? I am surprised to find someone so judgemental of others' choices. Make the best decision for you and your family, and lay off the rest of us. I have no desire to be slave to someone else's ideal image. I'm not being self-congratulatory, I'm being realistic. I sleep fine at night eating meat. If you don't, well, then I'm glad I'm not you. You aren't doing yourself or the planet any favors by walking through your days in judgement of me.


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## BirdieC (Nov 29, 2010)

I didn't say I wasn't the only one up at 5. Just saying, I could have been nicer and SHOULD have been nicer (and you can't honestly say you met me with kindness and compassion, right? We all get a little heated sometimes). But I'm not perfect (I've said that twice now). I also never said I was surprised not to find more like minded people on Mothering. I think if we were in the same room, you and I would have loads in common. And, as I mentioned before, I bet you don't enjoy seeing animals suffer. It's not that I think people who eat meat, milk, and eggs are horrible people. I wasn't born vegetarian, and I never thought I was horrible when I ate meat, milk, and eggs. People I love dearly eat all sorts of animals right in front of me. I don't live in a bubble of only vegetarians. But, it just seemed like a crunchy community that was thoughtful about their impact on the environment would know more. It seems common knowledge to me that meat is a resource-intensive industry. Clearly that's not true and most people, even well informed people, are just learning about it.

Also, sharing information about the factory farm industry is not the same as making an argument that I know what is best for everyone else. That's Congress' job 

I hope this riled you up enough to get those contractions going faster. Even though your post was a little mean, I can't help but be elated for you and the journey you're about to begin with your little one.


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## whiskeyandwater (Oct 4, 2013)

I was a vegetarian for many years in my 20's and 30's and when I got pregnant I found myself feeling REALLY tired often. I started tracking my diet closely and realized many days I was coming up short on protein for a pregnant woman. I started eating meat occasionally while I was pregnant and then when I was nursing I was just sooooooo ravenously hungry all the time I just never went back to my veggie ways! We still don't eat much meat, maybe 2 or 3 times a week but I find I feel better when I do eat meat occasionally and I personally feel it's important for toddlers (I know it's POSSIBLE to raise a healthy vegan/vegetarian baby, I just find it much more difficult to ensure my picky little guy gets enough protein/iron without feeding him some chicken every once in a while) so we have just stuck with it.

Ironically, my son was dairy intolerant until he was about 1, and because I was breastfeeding we just stopped consuming dairy as a family - and my asthma went away! So we have continued our no-dairy policy. I keep thinking about stopping meat again and going straight vegan at least for me but I guess I'm just a little bit lazy. For some reason it seems like more work now than it did when I was younger LOL.


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## ilovetchotchkes (Oct 16, 2011)

Ok, look- I understand the environmental consequences of eating meat. Which it sucks. Truly it does, however, there's no way you can basically insinuate that i don't care about the environment because I eat it. I drive a very fuel efficient car (in fact, we're a 1 car family!), I cloth diaper, hell, we don't even use toilet paper- family cloth FOREVAH, grow as much of my own veggies as I can, recycle everything, compost what I can't and we literally only have to put our trash out 1x a month. In a house with 2 children, that's insane.

Everyone can only do what their limitations allow, and I cannot be a vegetarian. I am so sick of everyone telling me what I should and should not eat. I'm a 32 year old woman, not a child, and to be constantly told smugly "cut out gluten! CUT OUT MEAT! You're so cruel! you're so inflamed, blah blah blah" it really makes me less likely to even consider it as a possibility. There are multiple food allergies that I am dealing with here, and I am SO unwilling to restrict my diet just to satisfy someone's well meaning but overbearing ideals.

And not that its any of your business, but yes, the meat and eggs I do purchase are through a co-op that sources from locally owned farms. If ordinances would allow it, I would have avian "pets with benefits". So please, stop making assumptions about me and my life.


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## Poddi (Feb 18, 2003)

I love food and will eat everything. I don't want to discriminate against any food. 

Seriously, it's just personal choices and nobody need to justify them. You can ask anyone similar questions like: why aren't you an activist? Atheist? Doctor? Stripper? Why do you like to wear blue? What's wrong with red? Why do you marry a man who doesn't make a lot of money? Why don't you get your teeth bleached? Why do you wear glasses instead of contacts? Why, why why...? And their answers would be none of your business.


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## fayebond (Jun 16, 2012)

Because meat is good for me (not my favorite thing to eat, but I need the protien and iron being nursing/pregnant). And because my husband likes meat.


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## mightymama1976 (Mar 6, 2013)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ian'smommaya*
> 
> Why aren't you a vegan or vegetarian?


Being a nutritional consultant, I think that vegan or vegetarian diet is very unhealthy. I live in Boulder area--the heart of vegans and vegetarians so to speak--and I have a lot of clients whose health gets damaged by the myth of "meat being bad for you". In reality, eating a good daily amount of organic preferably grass-fed and free range meats, good quality animal fats, liver (twice a week), bone broths, wild caught fish, are just as important as eating green leafy vegetables and low glycemic fruit.


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## erinmattsmom88 (Oct 28, 2010)

I am not vegan or vegetarian because everyone in my house loves meat. I could live without it, but I do like it... pork chops, chicken, steak, BACON!!!!! I am intrigued with the thought of becoming vegan or vegetarian though, but it is not practical in my house. I refuse to make more than one meal at a time. Don't have time for all that fuss. The only time I would be ok with fixing multiple meals at a time is if someone has an allergy or intolerance, etc. That is not the case with us.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

I could easily go without meat and did for about ten years. My husband and daughter are NOT INTERESTED at all and have made that clear. I will still usually skip the actual meat I cook or when ordering out and I seriously dislike handling it. I don't mind eggs or milk or butter in things (too lazy to avoid them), but if cooking for myself would gladly use substitutes. I guess I'd miss cheese, but I can get awfully grossed out about cheese if I give it too much thought.

I have more of an ethical issue than health issues. I try to at least be responsible about where I buy animal products and I'm VERY careful about body products but it's expensive and sometimes ethics are a luxury I can't afford :-(


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## mama24-7 (Aug 11, 2004)

This may turn into a rant.

We aren't vegetarians or vegans because trying to get cross contamination free grains is a joke, unless you grow them yourself. My children have lots of food allergies (the oldest has the least & the youngest eats about 5 things right now, no kidding at all, & nurses - I'm so scared for him & am really clueless about what to do at this point







) and trying to find food that is free of cross contamination could be a full time job.

The rant part: I think it must be nice to be able to choose to eliminate whole groups of food on your ideals/whims/whatever. We are omnivores, like it or not, world population or not, allergies or not. My dd wants to participate in a regular group activity. They have rules about food & you can only bring food that meets their rules. So, if dd participates, she has to follow even more food rules, barbecue of what people want. Must be f)%^#(*g nice.









I'm done.

Sus


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## ian'smommaya (Jun 7, 2004)

Allergies are so hard! Have you seen Kids With Food Allergies? It's a website that I have found really helpful.


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## jmarroq (Jul 2, 2008)

If I tried really hard to find meat substitutes that tasted decent and spent the time preparing them, etc. I could probably go veggie. Meat never really was that appetizing for me compared to veggies.

I have always been picky about meat. If it is prepared well, tastes amazing, and doesn't resemble something that was once alive, I can eat it. It has to have no weird consistencies, like fatty pieces, tendons, gritty pieces, bloody or bruised areas, etc.

I think of the tender, pounded out beef that my European aunt would prepare with all the right herbs and spices, rolled into braciole with a toothpick...my mouth waters. It's comfort food. Old world recipes, cooked with love from scratch...now THAT I can eat! The stuff they try to pass off as "Italian food" at chain restaurants... I don't bother. Soups and salads it is.

I think the meat I would miss the most would be bacon (more for the flavor than the consistency). I also love clams like I can't explain....and marinated squid salads, etc. I crave salty foods over sweets. Oh how I would miss ceviche...mmmm lime and cilantro soaked fish! I'm getting hungry!

Also, I too have been anemic on and off all my life, probably because I usually don't eat red meat. Don't remember the last time I ate red meat.

Today the only meat I ate was 3 slices of turkey bacon, 2 turkey meatballs and 2 slices of Boars Head Ever Roast Chicken. I had other sources of protein like some nuts, an egg, a slice of cheese, half and half and some beans.


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## skreader (Nov 19, 2008)

Because I like to eat meat.

Because I don't think eating meat is bad for health.

Because I don't think it is immoral to eat meat.


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## Backroads (May 4, 2013)

Siblings and I have been having an argument with my mother. My mother is very much against cruelty to animals, though is a meat eater. She means well, but there is a bit of hypocrisy. She doesn't want to hear about slaughter houses (considers them evil, with every right to think so) but also can't stand her brother-in-law's tendency to raise his own meat. We are all trying to convince her it's so much more humane in most circumstances to raise your own meat than to buy it from your standard grocer where it probably did come from a plant, but she's fighting it.

I think it boils down to the fact that she would know the animal. Sigh.


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