# Toilet Troubles in Nearly 5yo



## gooseberry (Feb 20, 2012)

My DD2 will be 5 in November. She's been in underwear since at least 3, but maybe slightly prior to that as well. That being said, she toilets in her underwear on a not infrequent basis. There will be several weeks of soiled undies in a plastic bag in her cubby at daycare everyday, followed by weeks or months where everything is fine, and then it's back to frequent accidents. When she's in an accident phase, it's usually one or the other, and poop is more of a problem than pee. Basically, for over a year and a half, we've never felt solidly potty trained with her. (There's another thread on here from me from when she was younger.) I feel like most of this is about being uninterested in stopping what she's doing to go potty. Sometimes, it also seems intentional. She does not seem embarrassed or uncomfortable when she poops in her underwear.

This spring and summer have been rough. She's been really defiant and in an overall sour mood, and she's been having accidents all.the.time. I'm further worried by the actual poops themselves. Even when she makes it to the toilet, she's having several (3-5) small poops a day. I feel like she's holding so long, but it's forcing its way out. But even when she sits down on the potty, she doesn't poop more. Just releases this very small chunk, and moves on. I worry that now her bowel movements are constipated and regulated by an obstinate personality.

She doesn't like any fruits or veggies. Really. Not even lovely summer things like berries or peaches. She likes carbs, and lots of them. She's not even much of a meat eater.

Because of her fall birthday, she's got one more year until kinder (I've been saying thank you to the universe all summer for that one!)

Can you help me figure out about diet/constipation, and the behavior part? 

TIA! I don't have a ton of time to get online right now, so it may take me a bit to respond to replies.


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## pumabearclan (Nov 14, 2012)

gooseberry said:


> This spring and summer have been rough. She's been really defiant and in an overall sour mood, and she's been having accidents all.the.time. I'm further worried by the actual poops themselves. Even when she makes it to the toilet, she's having several (3-5) small poops a day. I feel like she's holding so long, but it's forcing its way out. But even when she sits down on the potty, she doesn't poop more. Just releases this very small chunk, and moves on. I worry that now her bowel movements are constipated and regulated by an obstinate personality.
> 
> She doesn't like any fruits or veggies. Really. Not even lovely summer things like berries or peaches. She likes carbs, and lots of them. She's not even much of a meat eater.


I personally think that your daughter's commitment to carbs and her mood are related, and that her bowel troubles are both related to a carb diet AND PRIMARILY any stressors that she is regularly exposed to, especially within the family.

Overall your post indicates to me that your daughter is in a high-stress situation that is interfering with her bowel function. Are there underlying issues that you may not be aware of? Children are so much more sensitive than adults to these things.

Best
~Puma


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## elliha (Jul 20, 2014)

She is probably constipated. I know at least two children where similar things has happened and which were solved when their stomage became more normal. I suggest that she gets some kind of treatment to keep herself more regular and that this is given for a long time to allow her bowels to normalize themselves through going to the potty at normal intervals. They had to give laxatives every time the child had not been to the potty for 5 days and give stool softner for months. After a pretty short while they did not need laxatives but had to go on with the stool softner for a long time as every time they stopped the child went right back.


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## gooseberry (Feb 20, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to work on getting some more fiber in her somehow. @pumabearclan , I can't think of any stressors that would be causing this. She's kind of living the pre-k good life. She goes to a play-based pre-school where she can indulge in just about whatever creative play she desires, her time at home is not super structured, and grandparents spoil her when she's at their house. There's no family fighting or anything. Sleep might be an issue, but this summer I've been trying to let her sleep in. She's a night owl.

She's a middle child, and an odd duck. She just really wants her way and she'll hold out for a long time. Sometimes when she's having a meltdown about something, I'm trying to problem solve with her to help her get what she wants, and she'll just continue to hold on to the struggle.


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## pumabearclan (Nov 14, 2012)

gooseberry said:


> I can't think of any stressors that would be causing this. She's kind of living the pre-k good life.... Sometimes when she's having a meltdown about something, I'm trying to problem solve with her to help her get what she wants, and she'll just continue to hold on to the struggle.


If it was my child I would look deeper into this. Meltdowns, volatility, stubbornness, high-conflict. These are very typical personality traits that coincide with bowel trouble and that seem to indicate a latent emotional problem perhaps?

The bowels, incidentally, as I understand it, are the repository of emotions. Peter Levine has written about this; though his approach is for trauma healing the research and foundations of his work indicate that full emotional health of a person is indicated physically.

Just something to consider, and I hope that your child and you and all are feeling great very soon!


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## chiefmir (Apr 16, 2010)

I'd bet plenty of money that she's constipated, whether you can tell or not. A better diet may help, but not enough. My DD has this problem from toddlerhood and has a limited diet, but I have two friends who have kids with amazing diets and the same problem. The issue is, with constipation, the kid loses the sensation of having to go, so they hold it in longer and longer. Leading to accidents, near misses, etc. Most docs will do a pretty good clean out with Miralax and planned sitting on the toilet (usually 10 minutes after each meal when pooping is the most likely), then some behavior modification (like staying with a pooping schedule) for a while.


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## newmamalizzy (Jul 23, 2010)

I wish I had advice, but I'm debating tonight whether I can send my DD to kindergarten next week as planned because of the same problem. We've been through the doctor ordered Miralax and potty sits, but perhaps we haven't been consistent enough. X-Rays show a huge back-up. I would suspect the same in your daughter. Funny what puma is saying about emotions. My DD is highly volatile and has a lot of difficulty controlling her emotions. She had always been very emotionally draining and needy. Puma, if you get a chance, I'd welcome a PM with a little deeper explanation of what you mean.


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## gooseberry (Feb 20, 2012)

Does anyone have any resources on constipation stuff? She's had a few poops this week that look more like what had been normal for her, and hardly any of the little chunks. That made me wonder if she was no longer constipated, but deciding not to hold it so long. I dunno.

Puma, I believe what you say about the connection between emotions and bowels, I just can't pinpoint any stressors that would have started this whole thing.


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## pumabearclan (Nov 14, 2012)

gooseberry said:


> Puma, I believe what you say about the connection between emotions and bowels, I just can't pinpoint any stressors that would have started this whole thing.


If you do some research into somatic therapies (art therapy, dancing, drama, guided movement etc) you can give you child the benefits of therapy without knowing what triggered it.

In some reading I've done on traumatic effect it can be as "trifling" as public embarrassment, "invasive" dental or medical procedure, or disturbing as transitioning daily from uncomfortable environments. The younger the child the more "trifling" it may seem.

If this continues despite efforts for therapies and your awareness then look to diet (enough fat, fluids, and electrolytes - NOT fiber - are the keys to regular elimination) and also other dynamics.

I hope this is resolved quickly.

Best wishes


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## elliha (Jul 20, 2014)

gooseberry said:


> Does anyone have any resources on constipation stuff? She's had a few poops this week that look more like what had been normal for her, and hardly any of the little chunks. That made me wonder if she was no longer constipated, but deciding not to hold it so long. I dunno.
> 
> Puma, I believe what you say about the connection between emotions and bowels, I just can't pinpoint any stressors that would have started this whole thing.


Remember that it can take months for the bowel to go back to normal after being severely constipated so you will need to keep up the regiment for at least a whole months with few or now hard poos to even consider her cured. This is why doctors recommend stool softners because then the child will keep having the best possibility of not getting constipated again until the bowel is back to normal.


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