# If baby is always more efficient than the pump, then why...



## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

do they tell you to only pump for 15-20 minutes but the babe should be at breast for 20-40?

Makes no sense to me.

If the pump is not as efficient as the baby, shouldn't we be pumping for 40-80 minutes?

Anyone have a logical explanation for this advice?

V


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Hmm I've never heard the baby should be at the breast for 20-40 minutes. I've read that some babies are efficient eaters and take 5 minutes and some are less efficient and take 20 minutes or more.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 

Anyone have a logical explanation for this advice?



Alot of BFing advice is not logical.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
do they tell you to only pump for 15-20 minutes but the babe should be at breast for 20-40?

Makes no sense to me.

If the pump is not as efficient as the baby, shouldn't we be pumping for 40-80 minutes?

Anyone have a logical explanation for this advice?

V

By the time I started pumping regularly, my babe was only nursing for 8-10 minutes. He was not a comfort nurser and he was very efficient.

When you're nursing a babe, both the nutrition and comfort is important. And both of those are involved in a standard nursing session. Most babes aren't actively nursing for all of those 20-40 minutes.

The pump is doing nothing but extracting milk, and once you get a certain amount out you're not getting much more unless you manage to trigger another letdown. You can then make your pumping "more effective" by doing breast massage and compressions to force as much of the remaining milk out
as possible.

But really: the primary reason why the pump is less efficient is simply because it's not as naturally stimulating as the babe. I have always had painful letdowns (thus could acutely feel it), and when the babe was actively nursing, I would have a letdown every 4-5 minutes. With the pump, every 8-10 minutes and never more than 3. That's one reason why it's not a good indication of supply (versus baby nursing).

Also, I could pump 1.5-2oz/breast WITHOUT a letdown. That's just what my "natural" between-nursing sessions capacity of my breasts are (at A cups). So, when I hear that the 1.5-2oz per pumping session is considered "normal," it's an indication to me that the NORM is not to or barely letdown for the pump at all. Going 8-10 hours without a letdown, or with only minimal letdowns is going to have an impact on your supply--but if you're not getting a letdown with 20 minutes of pumping, you're probably not able to letdown for the pump. So . . . at 20 minutes, you probably either have pumped enough, or have had enough frustration.


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## Sandstress (Sep 21, 2006)

I don't have an answer for you, but I know that if I would have followed that advice (and believe me, I've fought with enough NICU nurses about just that issue....) I would have lost my supply and not been able to accomplish what I did. My typical pumping session would last 35 minutes, because I had a good letdown at around 30 minutes. So.....that "rule" is for people who maybe are just starting out pumping? They always said that going for longer than 15 minutes would damage the tissues, be counterproductive, etc. But if you know what is working (ie, pumping for a certain amount of time) then you have to go with it. I ep'ed for 16 months, and stopped about 6 months ago, and I really don't think my breasts were "damaged."

Babies are not pumps and pumps are not babies, so there's no reason that you should be doing the same thing for both. Find out what works and stick with it.


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## ziursrm (Sep 20, 2007)

pumping is less efficient because it doesn't provide emotional stimulation. It does just fine sucking the milk out. I've heard of mom's who pump a lot away from home using pictures of their babe to help achieve better let downs.


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## Icequeen_in_ak (Mar 6, 2004)

I've never heard 20-40 minutes for BF'ing either.

My daughter was a POWER NURSER... she was in and out in less than 5 minutes


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## Girlymomwithsons (Nov 28, 2007)

I think the shorter time recomended for pumping rather than actually nursing is because pumping is harder on your nipples than your baby (at least it was for me) so it's just until you get "broken in" so to speak. I have started and stopped pumping a lot of times, and I find every time I have to start out just with short sessions and work my way up. Also, it can be very frustrating if you feel like you have been pumping forever, but have very little to show for it, so it may be so you have an end in sight. I never did a time limit, but I did set an amount that I felt I needed to get to before I could stop, and it worked for me.


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## dillNY (Aug 15, 2007)

Babies are more efficient when they're nursing for FOOD, but that isn't always what they're after. My guy is 4 months old, and he still nurses for about an hour each time. He'll go between comfort nursing/low flow nursing, and periods where he just glugs the milk like crazy.

Sure, I hate that it takes so long, but he's gaining weight, has plenty of wet diapers, and I've never had painful nipples or any other indication of a latch problem. He just likes being attached to Mama, and there's not much I can do about that, so we're going with it.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

I feel like a set amount of time that a nursing session "should" be is a mistake. My son sometimes nurses for five minutes - in, gulpgulpgulp, out again - and sometimes wants to be at the breast for what seems like ages. I figure that snuggles are a bigger need for him some days than others.

There's no percentage in cuddling a breast pump, but I'd be wary of a set time limit for that too. Before I went back to school, I used to pump slowly - put the pump on just about the lowest setting and let things go gently. As a result, my pumping sessions were about half an hour long. I didn't start turning up to higher power until I had to, and I think the lower power you can effectively use on those things, the better (I have nothing to back that up, it's just a personal opinion).


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

The 20-40 minutes comes from LCs and the book Nursing Mother's Companion and then they all say to only pimp for 20-40min.

Weird.

V


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## OLA-LA (Nov 26, 2007)

I guess 20-40 minutes includes the time baby is nurcing for pleasure, for calming.
From our experience: sometimes it took\takes 5-10 mins, sometimes 30+.
It's the baby who establishes timeframes







)

If you have a good pumper, puming experience and boobs full of milk than you can be done even in 10 mins







)


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## kathteach (Jun 6, 2004)

When they say more efficient I thought they meant the ability to fully drain the breast regardless of time. I know when I was exclusively pumping I got blocked ducts CONSTANTLY even though I kept a strict pumping schedule. I'm now ebf DS2 and have never had a blocked duct. (Knock on wood.)


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