# Anyone else's child wake 10 times a night?



## UK Mom (Jul 2, 2002)

My ds is 16 months and wakes between 9 and 11 times a night, every night. Nighttime is torture for me, and he doesn't nap very well, if at all, during the day.

I just wondered if there was anyone else like me out there, or if I was the only one. (I need a bit of support to know that I am not alone.)


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## Paxetbonum (Jul 16, 2003)

AHHH! YES! My dd is one year and wakes 10 times a night. We are currently ruling out problems like GERD and teething. She has been doing this since she was seven months old.

I am barley functioning during the day. The only ways to get her back to sleep are nursing and walking in the sling with her dad. I am so happy to know there are other mothers out there suffering from sleep depravity.

I am open to any suggestions for getting her to sleep better.

her waking schedule at night goes somehting like this.

She goes to bed at 8:00

wakes 8:30, 9: 15, 9:30, 10:30, 12:00, 2:00,4:00, 6:00, 6:30, 7:00

there are some variences to this pattern but it is usually like this. She also only naps for a half hour in the morning and the early afternoon.

I really feel for you UK mom!


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## Acugirl (Jan 1, 2003)

I have lost count of how many times dd, 10 months wakes in the night...it is way up there!
on good nights, she nurses and goes right back to sleep, on bad nights, she will be completely awake for an hr or so-last night it was fron 4:30-5:30AM!

We co sleep-she WILL NOT sleep with out me at all now-she used to sleep for a few hrs in the evening with out me some nights, but not at all now.

Not only am I tired from no sleep, I am tired from no life! I really really believe in cosleeping and all that, but gosh, this is really hard! DH can take her and she'll sleep in the sling for him, but still, that doesn't give us any time alone at all.

I don't know what to do or how to make this end! Everyone says they grow out of it and eventually learn to sleep on their own, but how? She cries hysterically if I don't nurse her when she wakes, even if I am there patting her back or whatever-then she is wide awake and impossible to get back to sleep.

It is really really hard and I have no answers!

Oh, dd's typical night is like this...7:30 or 8 asleep nursing, or in sling...I put her down in pack and play she sleeps for exactly 1/2 hr and wakes up crying. I pick her up, she falls right back to sleep-generally...put her back down and she wakes back up crying...repeat until I go to bed-usually at 9, sometimes 8:30! I can't leave her in our bed-she is WAY too mobile and I can't relax at all with her in there. If I keep her in the sling, she wakes up when I start talking to dh.
Once I go to bed, she wakes to nurse every 1 1/2 hrs, sometimes she'll do a 2 1/2 hr stretch, but rarely now. Usually she is up for the day between 6:30 and 8, more like 7. Nap 2 hrs after waking-in sling for 40 min-sometimes 2 hrs-totally unpredictable. Nap again in afternoon for about 1 hr-lying in bed with me.

She is really active, very smart, totally happy during the day-doesn't seem at all sleep deprived. She is teething-and has been forever and will be forever-so I can't really use that to explain all these problems!

Sorry for rambling-you are NOT alone!


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## UK Mom (Jul 2, 2002)

Oh Acugirl and Paxetbonum - I really know how it feels! And it's weird - I am sorry that you are both having such a hard time, but at the same time, I am glad to know that my little one isn't the only one!

His sleep pattern is something like this:

Sleep at 7:30, awake at 9:30, 10:15, 11:30, 12:15, 1:30, 2:30, 3:15, 3:30, 4:30, 5:30, 6:30, then up at 7:00.

I honestly don't know how much longer I can do this. We co-sleep (except when he first goes to bed, he starts off in his cot, moving to my bed after the first waking once I have gone to bed), mainly because otherwise I would get NO sleep. He will not sleep for his dad at all, and he and I no longer even sleep in the same room.

I am so tired today that I almost fell asleep looking after him. I lose my temper so easily and cry every day.

I know that they are supposed to grow out of this, but when????? I have met people who told me their kids didn't sleep until they were 4 or 5. I don't know what I will do if he doesn't sleep before then.

Well, thanks for letting me blow off a bit of steam. And I really hope your little ones sleep for you soon. I really, really do.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Me too, me too! I don't co-sleep (I'm on strong meds that makes it not safe) but I always respond immediately and nurse her back to sleep. Well her sleep schedule is horrible! She goes to be at 7:15, then up at 8:00, 9:00, 10:00, 12:00, 1:30, 3:00, 4:30, 5:30, 6:30 and then up at 7:15 for the day. Lord, written out like that I wonder how I am not going insane with exhaustion. I am also home preschooling an almost spirited 3 year old. Beam me up Scottie! I don't really know what to do. I really don't think she is ready for nightweaning, she barely eats solids (a crumb here, a crumb there). Plus I don't think I could handle denying her nursing when I know its what she wants. I just keep hoping that one day she'll stop this on her own. She will won't she? Anyone? Hello? Is this thing on? LOL


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## Paxetbonum (Jul 16, 2003)

Wow. Sometimes it is good to hear from the moms that have it so bad. It really helps to hear that I am not the only one.

I am giving her until I get pregnant again before I consider night weaning. (at this rate I'll hit menopause before my fertility returns.. . LOL) She is a year now and still so needy. . . I just don't have the heart to deny her the breast.

Have any of you ladies looked into medical causes for night waking. . . like GERD and Pyloric stenosis. . . we are currentley looking into these because if she cries hard enough she vomits. . . sometimes at night she gets soooooo full of milk that she gags and sputters and coughs. . .somtimes vomits too.

I just put her on Zantac but it doesn't seem to be doing much. She may just be a nightwaker.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

No I haven't looked into medical causes. Olivia doesn't cry. She just wakes up, starts to cry a bit and I am in there right away and popping her on the breast. She only nurses for about 10 minutes and then goes right back to bed. I hope there is nothing wrong with your daughter!


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## dswmom (Nov 17, 2002)

Everytime I log on to begin my quest for answers to my sons sleep patterns I find mommies like you who are going through the same thing!! I really did have to laugh when you all started listing the times your babes wake. Once its written out like that, it really seems like it would be impossible for us to function. My ds usually goes to bed b/t 8 & 9 and wakes like clockwork 45 minutes later then again about every 1 1/2 hours until 7am. Actually, he slept for almost 5 hours straight the other night and I thought---"my god, he's doing it! He's sleeping through the night!", but the next night we were back to the same routine. He's about 13 months and has been this way since 7mo or so.

I'm with you too on the nursing back to sleep. If I try anything else, he gets pissed







--dh can't help at all. Our ds loves dh to death during the daytime hours, but its all mommy through the night. Just know you all are certainly not alone, and if our babes are thriving, being happy and rested during the day, then I'm guessing the researchers who talk about this constant nightwaking of breastfed babies being natural are on to something


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## brookelynnp (Jan 1, 2002)

I hear you all! My 7 mo old is just the same. I am trying to follow "The No Cry Sleep Solution", by Elizabeth Pantly. He is already giving me 2.5 hour stretches where I was only getting 30 to 40 min, tops! With my first son I night woke to nurse him for fourteen months before I NIght weened and all was solved. It took about two hard weeks but persistance and patience and supportive help from dh, He would sleep between us or even in another room with ds to help me get the rest I needed to continue to night ween and still have a mind to function during the day. I will probably night ween ds #2 as well at 14 months because it worked for us. Unless he only wakes 1 to 3 times, that isn't so bad I think. Just rambling gotta go!


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## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Have all of you guys looked into allergies? I know that allergic reactions can cause nightwaking. SOrry to say, (well, I'm not sorry) that dd doesn't have this prob, although when she is teething she wakes at least 5x a night.







Please, everyone, ask for the help you need form you rloved ones! I'm sure you have a friend or relative, (or dh) who will help you with other things so you are able to take good care of yoruself!
Lauren


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## Marlena (Jul 19, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Paxetbonum_
*Have any of you ladies looked into medical causes for night waking. . . like GERD and Pyloric stenosis. . . we are currentley looking into these because if she cries hard enough she vomits. . . sometimes at night she gets soooooo full of milk that she gags and sputters and coughs. . .somtimes vomits too.*
If she sometimes gets so full of milk that she vomits, then she's drinking too much milk. And if young children cry too hard for too long, then they often vomit. There's nothing medically unusual about either, at least with the information you've given here.

I would strongly suggest nightweaning.

There was a thread in the Parenting forum many months ago, in which someone asked how other moms got their children (+18 months or so, not before) to sleep through the night. Many people responded. The answer: nightweaning. Hands down.

This comports with my experience, as well. Dd would wake up frequently during the night (we co-sleep and still nurse) until I finally decided to nightwean her (at about 26 months - I don't suggest waiting that long).

The rules?: no nursing between the time she falls asleep (9:30-10pm) until 5 am (around when my husband's alarm usually goes off).

She was very unhappy about this for about two or three nights (where she cried and cried for about 10-15 minutes after waking and being told gently to go back to sleep rather than being given a breast). Then, off and on for a few weeks, she'd wake and fuss for a few minutes, and then fall back to sleep. Now, she still occasionally will wake up wanting to nurse at 1am or so, but otherwise, she sleeps on through until 5 (when - surprise surprise! - she promptly wakes up and wants to nurse before falling back to sleep until 7 or so).

Nightweaning. It's the only way to go if you have a child who's 16-18 months or more who's still waking frequently and nurses back to sleep.


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## amysalt (Oct 10, 2003)

Thanks to all of you for your discussion. my son is 1 year old and has been waking numerous times during the night for a few months now. (I don't even count how many times anymore!) I am totally frustrated - my mother tries to give me support, but since my husband and I are parenting very differently from her generation, she really doesn't know how to help (neither do I!) Something has to change - I am at the end of my rope.

Thanks Marlena for your last posting about night weening. I am desperate for a solution to this sleep deprevation. I think I will have to try that, as I DO NOT want to put my son in a crib and "cry it out" after co-sleeping with him his whole life thus far!


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## Paxetbonum (Jul 16, 2003)

Marlena,

Would you suggest waiting a few months before night weaning her? She is twelve months now. I have tried letting her not nurse back to sleep and just soothing her some other way and she just screams and screams (not just crying and wimpering but "Bloody murder" type screamin.) She has gone for twenty minutes this way(with me in the room trying to rock her and sooth her and will would no doubt go longer but I don't have the heart and end up pulling out the boob again. I am wondering at this point if we should just live with the nightwaking for a couple more months and then try nightweaning again later.

Also I want to get pregnant again some point this next year and I think that there is no way that's going to happen until I nightwean.


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## Marlena (Jul 19, 2002)

I'm no expert (to say the least!), but I personally couldn't do it with a 12 month old. I'd wait a few more months. Anecdotally and personally, I also found that babies between about 9 and 12 months of age wake very frequently. Things begin to calm down again after 13-14 months.

You might want to check back threads in the Parenting forum, as they occasionally pop up there and aren't moved.


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## jingwen (Jan 20, 2003)

Marlena,

Thank you for your idea of nightweaning.

I have a question ....I started to wean my 18 mos ds a month ago and the first day went great, i didn't nurse and he fell back to sleep with minimal crying, but then the next day because of lack of sleep i just gave in when he wanted it.. and now i've been inconsistent since.

So now my nights look like this. He wakes to nurse and i tell him
"umbu's are sleeping," i try to give him hugs or rock him instead but he just wails non stop so i give in and

And because of the inconsistancy my ds will not take "NO" for an answer. He will scream like he's lost his mind.

Do you think i should wait another month and start fresh? or do you think i should continue? Of course i will try to be more consistent. I feel so bad letting him scream like that, i feel like I'm letting him CIO.

What do you think? we are trying to organize a plan. thanks.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

i strongly urge all you mamas to get your babies tested for allergies. my son is allergic to tons of food and now that we are trying to identify it, he sleeps much better. (although we have been struggling w/corn, it is in everything







) he was waking every 40 min, so about 15 times a night.

around 15 months i tried to gently nightwean, and he was fighting it. for a month, he was fighting it. i realized he was hurting and this was not some silly boob dependence.

the RAST test is not 100% accurate, not even 80% accurate i think. but it will give you some idea of what is going on w/your little ones. it is a blood test and happens at a lab. we used EMLA and avoided a lot of the pain, just some trauma from his arm being held.

i have been there, and we are now on an almost 100% all from scratch diet (hope you all don't have it this bad), and i hope in the next couple of weeks we'll see some improvement.

hth
amy


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## Wildcrafter (Mar 11, 2003)

Sometimes it can be allergies or other medical problems but it can also be that the babe just needs you that much. We eat all fresh and organic and avoid ALL possible allergens and my 17 mo still wakes about 8 times per night. He's a joy during the day. He is just starting to get off the breast at night himself and fall asleep himself, once in a while. When he does do this he sleeps much longer. I think it is a transitionary stage for him. (GOD I HOPE!!)

I do know that the waking has been much worse for about 2-3 weeks directly before major developmental stages, sitting up, crawling, walking and most recently talking. And to make things worse for him, he usually cuts several teeth at this same time. He just cut 4 molars at once right before he started to really babble. Just imagine if I wasn't nursing how hard it would be for him!

It's funny because I'll be completely at the end of my rope and think I have to night wean because I just can't go on, and then he will do something marvelous like say papa for the first time and do other 2 syllable words and then things get a little better.

I know I am rambling but I have been up since 3. At some point I thought I had adapted to the night ritual but I'm not sure that really happens. I did come to just accept it after a while, not to say I still don't get frustrated sometimes.

What's also hard is that we are giving, giving, giving, and most if not all of us never really received this same giving when we were babes. We are rewriting the genetic code for our sons and daughters!


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## *solsticemama* (Feb 8, 2003)

This is not encouraging. My 10 mo ds wakes between 6 and 10 times a night sometimes more tho I lose count. I keep thinking he'll start to sleep longer stretches soon. But having read all your posts I'm beginning to doubt it unless I intervene. I'm exhausted and some nights go to bed thinking I have a night of work ahead of me. I don't know what the solution is but the idea of this continuing for another year seems a rather daunting challenge. If we're not going to cio then what is the answer? Sometimes I wonder at the wisdom of the approach we're all taking. I mean how wholesome is it for my ds to have a mom who's exhausted (and I'm not talking about the inherent mothering exhaustion, I'm talking the waking every 2 hrs to nurse for months and months exhaustion) and sometimes views nightnursing with less than enthusiasm. I've got no answers.


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## veganmamma (Sep 10, 2002)

Everyone's experience is different, your child might start sleeping longer stretches tomorrow. Really, everyone else's experience does not equate to what yours will be. Take it easy on yourself and ds. Ask for help doing things that are not so important if you can. Are you waking fully to nurse? I harldy wake anymore, so I never know how much we are up. Sometimes dp tells me I nurse her quite a few times and that he wakes, but I have no recollection of it! Things wil get better, it is hard to realize in the thick of it, but they will!









Lauren


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## wordmama (Dec 12, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by solsticemama_
*Sometimes I wonder at the wisdom of the approach we're all taking. I mean how wholesome is it for my ds to have a mom who's exhausted (and I'm not talking about the inherent mothering exhaustion, I'm talking the waking every 2 hrs to nurse for months and months exhaustion) and sometimes views nightnursing with less than enthusiasm. I've got no answers.*
I can relate to what solsticemama says. I, too, have wondered if I'm shortchanging my son (not to mention myself and my dh) because I'm so tired and stressed from lack of sleep. I want to be able to cherish and enjoy this time with my boy, not sleepwalk through it!

My son is now almost 12 months and is cutting 4 teeth, so he's been very wakeful lately. I'm thinking about waiting a few more months and then trying nightweaning, though how that's going to happen I don't really know. Three other mamas I know, all with babies in the 10 months-18 month range, solved the nightwaking problem in the same way: Daddy took over the soothing for a while and Mom slept in another room, and eventually the baby stopped waking so much. Unfortunately, this isn't practical for everyone. I, for one, think I'd have trouble listening to my son scream and my husband struggle without intervening. Also, my husband works a very demanding job and has a long commute; as a stay-at-home mom, I know my job's pretty demanding, too, but I have the option of napping during the day. Dh doesn't if he wants to keep his job!

I'm sending encouraging vibes out to all my fellow sleep-deprived mamas!


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Yes

Improved for awhile when dh slept w/him half the night, but now we're back to every hour. All night.

Too tired to read other posts-will later.
My kingdom for a night alone.


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## dswmom (Nov 17, 2002)

Wow, so many of us out there dealing with the regular wakings. Do your children have consistent nap schedules? I'm wondering if all the nightwaking is a result of irregular sleep habits during the day. Since my last post, my ds has been sleeping for 3 hour stretches and is only waking about 2-3 times a night. But what changed was I began going to sleep the same time he did. Before, I would get him to sleep then leave to hang out with dh or just do things around the house and he'd always wake about 45 minutes to an hour later. So, I'm guessing things are solved for the time being.

I know everyone is tired and feel compelled to make changes to their nighttime parenting, but I can't help to think that choosing to have your child cry or scream for mommy, even though dad is close by and is trying to comfort, isn't just another form of CIO but later in their life. Although it is draining, physically, emotionally and mentally, there HAS to be a reason our children are the way they are---and a reason for their nighttime demands of comfort.


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## earthmama23 (Nov 28, 2002)

Ohhhh, mamas, I feel your pain!!!!

When ds #1 was a babe, I LONGED for him to "sleep through the night" - I was obsessed with it! When he was three months old, I thought perhaps it would happen at 6 months...at 6 months old, I HOPED it would happen at 8 months....at 8 months old, I PRAYED it would happen by one YEAR....well, you get the picture







He was a needy guy at night, who didn't REALLY "sleep through the night" until he was 5 or so!!!! He was no longer nursing, but still needed that nighttime connection - he would come into our room and sleep in a sleeping bag next to our bed.

Ds #2 came along, and I decided to do things differently - I VOWED never to wonder when he would "sleep through the night" - I would just nurse him, never looking at the clock (we co-sleep), and it really helped. Since I wasn't looking at the clock, I had no idea what time it was, and was less likely to add up the number of times he nursed, how many times I was awake, etc., etc....

Now, DS #3 is 14 months old, and I would GUESS he nurses 5??? 7??? times a night...but I am sooooo used to nursing a co-sleeping babe in the night that I barely notice. I trust that he will sleep longer when he is ready - until then, I just accept that this is life with a co-sleeping, breastfed baby, and I NEVER EVER EVER look at the clock!!!! Just that little mental trick helps sooooo much.

Hugs to all of you mamas who are struggling!!!!! I know it's hard!


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## lovebugmama (May 23, 2003)

Hi to all you tired mamas.

I was just thinking about how long it has been since I have had an uninterrupted night's sleep. If you count all the peeing when I was pregnant, it has been about a year (ds is now 8 1/2 mos.). This, too, from a girl who loves to sleep and in my previous life (ha ha) used to sleep a minimum of 9 hours straight.

I wholeheartedly agree that you should stop looking at the clock and counting your night wakings.

Ethan usually wants to snack often throughout the night. I would guess it is now down to 5-6 times since his teething has slowed a little (he already has 10 teeth at 8 mos!). But, I made a conscious decision to do as little as possible to get him back to sleep. I pop the boob in his mouth and drift off the the sweet sound of his sucking. I've really tried to think differently (or actually, not to think at all). I don't dwell on his wakings, just try to get back to sleep as quickly as possible. The more I think about it/obsess with how many times he's woken me, the more awake I become and the less rested I feel in the am.

I know it is hard when you just want to be left alone for a while, but I find it kind of sweet that my baby needs me and I am able to comfort him. Someday in the not too distant future, he might tell you that he hates you, so cherish the sweet love you and your baby share alone throughout the night.


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## sparkeze (Nov 20, 2002)

I'm another one who only has fuzzy memories of nursing during the night. I know DS nursed often enough that I''m not engorged, but I'm not quite sure how often. And now that DS will sometimes just pull up my shirt and help himself I'm rarely fully awake. Occasionally he'll wake up every hour or so, but I always realize why the next day (sick or just not feeling well usually).

I think the nightwaking got better for us progressively, starting around when he was about 11 mo. Except for having white noise on in the bedroom, I don't "do" anything to try and reduce the frequency.

But I have a friend who's DD is 16 mo and they're still struggling with frequent nightwaking. I think the main difference is that my friend is more aware of the night nursing than I am, and her DD nurses for 15-30 min each time, as opposed to my DS who nurses for 5-10 min each waking. They tried moving their DD onto a futon mattress next to the bed, and that helped, and having the dad handle a few hours a night (say from 9-1am or something) helped too. She did cry quite a bit when dad tried to get her back to sleep for the first 2 nights, but then she started falling back to sleep with just some tummy rubbing from dad. But during my friend's part of the night, she insisted on nursing. And whenever they go out of town or something, it takes awhile to get back on track. But, they're much happier with their current situation, which I guess is partial nightweaning. My friend gets to sleep uninteruppted for a few hours and that seems to help her handle the nightwaking better.

Also - if DS eats too much cheese (or dairy I guess) he gets a bit of a stuffy nose. I didn't notice this right away, but eventually I saw the connection. So is it possible that there are things that are causing your DCs to wake up so frequently that maybe you haven't figured out yet? Just a thought.









Best wishes for a day where you don't walk around like a zombie from lack of sleep!


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

I am there with you. My 20 month old wakes that many times a night- he sleeps in 45 minute stretches and nurses all night during teething times or colds. He also hates feeling wet, so I change his diaper at night. He is fortunately staying dry most night s now and using the potty in the morning, so I get a little more sleep.

My ds is a VERY light sleeper and there are 4 of us- 2 adults and a 4 1/2 year old in bed and he wakes up from any motion in the bed.

He does have allergies- I've cut out most foods but we have to eat something.


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## Paxetbonum (Jul 16, 2003)

AHHH! Now I am scared that I will be doing this FOREVER!

I think I have tenativley decided to let DD night nurse until eighteen months or I get pregnant again.


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## stirringleaf (Mar 16, 2002)

i always wonder if its cosleeping making him want to nurse. right now it is 1 AM and he has slept thru 2 normal waking times. i am staying up much later than usual. whenever i do this he ironically sleeps through. although not always, i mean he WILL wake up and cry when i am not in the bed and i have to go nurse him back down. but he will also wake up, cry out, and fall back asleep alot when i am not in there. when i am in the bed he never does that cuz i am right there so he has to nurse. our bedroom is so small i cant imagin fitting another bed in there for him, even a toddler bed, so i dont know how to deal with this theory. my dh and i do have a bed for us in the room that doubles as our "office" but once i go into ds's bed i stay there for the night, rather than walk back and forth between two rooms all night. he has nursed every 2 hours since birth, and sometimes more often in the night.

he has a very regualr nap scedule, and sleeps great for 2 or more hours without help from me. i nurse him down but thats it.

sigh. well i better go to bed now, he will be up early and i have a cold!!! i miss hours of sleep straight........................but i also struggle about nightweaning cuz he was having trouble gaining enough weight for a while so i didnt want to cut out any nutrition, also i worry that he nurses as much as he does cuz he actually NEEDS to...so its hard to cut him off. i have been trying to wean in the day but he is not ready, gettting really clingy every time i try it.

edited to add: i cant believe how incoherent this post is!LOL i am going to leave it as a testement to the sleep deprivation!


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

let's have some discussion on how to reduce night waking, instead focusing only on night weaning.

closely examine how often and how well your baby nurses during daylight hours and evening.

some night waking can be because baby is making up at night what she didn't take in in the day.

i see night nursing as resourceful, independent behavior in a baby or child. they intrinsically know what they need and seek it.

try these actions:

1.nurse first, offer food second.

do not give food to a baby 24 months or less, without nursing him first. let him experiment with food on a full tummy of milk. if the child doesn't want to nurse, don't turn to food, he may be working on getting poop out, after which, he'll be glad to nurse.

understand that breast milk is exceedingly more complex than any food baby may take in. if the baby is eating food, she may still need a certain amount of breatmilk, she's just to full to nurse.
she can make it up at night. how clever!

a baby who eats food may not have enough liquid to properly digest it. intestinal discomfort can be disruptive to sleep. again, if you stick to nursing first and fooding second, the child will have a better ratio of liquid to solid.

2. don't put baby off when he wants to nurse.

it's easy to stall whan you're busy. it's easy to offer snacks. but you may be sinking your own boat.

3.make your regular daytime nursing sessions a top priority.

figure out how to make those nursing times really productive. the child who takes in more breastmilk during the day, will require less at night.

4.don't delete nursing from the bedtime ritual.

you're still awake, consider it part of your daytime nursing. it sure beats having to make it up later.

5. take magnesium at bedtime (with full glass of water) and again when you get up at night. it will help you rest better and feel better.

step back and observe your daytime routine and see if you might implement these changes. this focus could certainly reduce night waking for some of you.

thanks for your time, rrr


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## stirringleaf (Mar 16, 2002)

wow rrr! you really made some awesome points ! ( insert sound of angelic music going AHHHHHHHHH here)

i feel like i can see the light! i do a bunch of the stuff on your list of points ....i mean i stall nursing, etc...and i have never tried many of the things you mentioned. i am going to try and report back! how exciting!!


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

My ds nurses first always- I never put him off- and still wakes at night (at 20 mos). Olive oil drops in his ears help. Even though he doesn't have an ear infection, he has allergies and often a stuffy nose and the drops help with pain, I think.

A vaposriser helps a little, too. As does always having the window open a crack for fresh air and the realxing sounds of nature.

It is exhausting to have a child nursing most of the night and day.


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Thumbs up to the magnesium!! I've been taking it as rrr suggested for about 4 days and I am sleeping great at night....whenever dd is asleep that is.

So, coincidence? Who knows, but I'm going to keep taking it and suggest any other mom who has trouble falling back asleep should do the same.

Thanks, rrr.


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

here is another cheer for magnesium. i have just been taking my calcium/mag supplements which i have been terrible at taking and last night was astounding!!!!!!!!!! i slept thru dh giving her a bottle at 10 then she woke at 1 then 5:30. i looked at the clock b/c i was shocked she slept so long.

i was thinking i nursed her very frequently during the day but she wont take many solids at all so i was thinking i should hold off on nursing so she will take in more but i see that rrr suggests that may not be the plan. hmm, good stuff to think about. i was confused about the food stuff since my friends baby seems to be a chow hound and she seems so disinterested but i am relieved to hear some "mothering" advice re solids. thanks again rrr. you must have been through some real night wakings to be so resourceful!! i second the surrender thing as well but i feel better about it when i get a teeny tiny bit more sleep







:


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

if i thought about the day more than the night, i could see why my child was waking to nurse so much.

the busy, running errands, driving all day to grandma's, having company, cleaning the house for company, rushing around trying to meet some deadline days resulted in the most night nursing.

now, my child seemed fine in the day. he was busy, involved, eating, etc. but he was not nursing the normal amount.

for friends who don't sleep with their babies, this meant weaning. or at least a substantial reduction in breastfeeding.
"i just don't have any milk!"

so, i started the habit of trying to have a nursing day, following a busy day. a nursing day means stay home and make nursing your top priority. eat right, drink a lot of water, nap with baby.

get back on track.

other times when we weren't so busy, i wondered why we had such a restless night. then the fever and runny nose would start the next day. no wonder.

if my child poops later in the day or evening, they aren't restless all night, working on getting that poop out first thing in the morning. i realize my son is nursing to get enough liquid to be ready to poop. again, more nursing and water (if age appropriate) during the day. and veggie and fruit snacks instead of crackers.

i know it's not this simple. sometimes a simple idea is one you can at least try.

mamamonica makes a good point about having enough moisture in the air with vaporizer and window. magnesium is recommended for asthma. it relaxes the muscles in the chest and the lungs and i don't know what else. google magnesium and look for the magnesium deficiency calamity. there's a whole list of topics.

rrr


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## Paxetbonum (Jul 16, 2003)

rrr.

Thanks for your advice. I wonder if this is Angelica's problem. I mean she only nurses two to four times a day, as most. She always nurses before her morning and afternoon nap and then occasionally if she has a boo-boo or something. Then she nurses ALL-NIGHT-LONG!

The reason I cut back on her daytime nursing so much is that she would arch and refuse the breast at around seven months except when she was sleepy. So after about two months of forced feedings during the day in which she screamed and arched, I stopped nursing her unless she wanted to during the day.

Much of her nightwaking in the early morning is because she has painful gas. She sometimes will wake up every 15 minutes between five and seven crying and screaming, nursing back to sleep only to wake up ten minutes later. I don't know how to handle either the night waking or the gas problem and am getting really confused about all this.

(sigh) Sorry if none of this makes sense; I am a bit sleep deprived.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

I got a magnesium/zinc/calcium combo. I wonder if it is too strong as it passes thru my bm. I took some before I went to bed. DD woke up screaming last night around midnite. Don't know if it was that, or maybe the vit c i also took before going to bed (feel a cold coming on...), or maybe too many nuts yesterday.
UGH.








:


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Well I already do all the things suggested! She nurses at least 20 times during the day. It seems like she is constantly on the boob. And she still wakes every hour all night. So tonight is night 3 of trying to night wean her. I hate having to do this but it is getting to the point where I don't feel safe being alone with my kids because I am so tired. I can't even drive a car anymore because I fall asleep at the wheel. I can't play with my 2 year old at all, I am just laying on the couch all day and snapping at him from exhaustion. So for the sake of my whole family i feel I have to do this. So here's my plan. I won't nurse between the hours of 11-5. Last night she woke at 10:50 pm so I nursed her as normal. Then when she woke at 2 am (she slept a longer stint last night after night 1 of night weaning) I didn't nurse her just gave her a kiss and laid her back in her crib. I sat with her the whole time patting her back and holding her hand. It took TWO HOURS for her to fall asleep both nights. So she fell asleep at 4 last night and then slept until 6:15 when she woke up I nursed her and she went back to sleep until 7:40 am. She normally wakes at 6:00 am for the day so she was obviously tired out from staying awake from two hours as well. She did cry a bit but I was right with her so I don't think that's bad. I am praying and hoping that as time goes on it will take less and less time of me sitting there for her to fall back asleep and eventually she will sleep through from 11-5 (or longer!).


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

gas: someone was recommending some drops that helped their baby. what were they?

acidopholus is good for any intestinal and allergy trouble.

but, why is she having gas. maybe she has too much food and not enough breastmilk. i forgot how old she is. my daughter would drink water, which helps to digest that food, but my son refuses all water.

try nursing when she's hungry. when she's done, then offer age appropriate food.

mona--does the zinc leave a taste in your mouth? i avoid it for that reason. i can't stand it. i know people like to take zinc for colds and immune boosting. how much calcium and magnesium per tablet?

store brand magnesium costs 2.49 for 100 tablet, 250mg each. it really helps to be able to take the magnesium without the calcum part of the time. it's the magnesium that's relaxing.

if you just take the cal/mag together, you may not get enough mag to notice a difference. don't forget the water--you're eating rocks.

rrr


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

rrr- thanks for that extra info. i think i will go and get a bottle of magnesium by itself.

i had one cal/mag/zinc combination tablet yesterday (333mg, 133mg, 5mg respectively) to see if it would help but not cause gas for her. well, who knows waht is doing what, but she tossed and turned all night. which is unusual for her. who knows. i have cut out all dairy and sugar to boot, so i'd be nice to see some results. :LOL


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

mona--i will do a little searching for you about the zinc.

i doubt the minerals are a source of gas for the baby. how old is she?

300mg is how much calcium you get in 1 cup of cow's milk. plus it has several other minerals, including magnesium.

here's what i have: a calcium only tablet, cheap, comes in a big bottle,can be broken in half. and magnesium only tablets, soft enough to break in half.

a calcium with vit. D would also be good, i don't worry if we're getting outside enough.

the fastest acting calcium comes in a powder with vit C and magnesium and maybe potassium and possibly zinc. it is usually called a buffered C powder. you mix a little in warm water, and you can feel it relaxing you almost right away.

GAS. is the child eating food? have you eaten anything new?

have you been eating a lot of sugar lately? or too many meals of cereal and milk? to you eat a lot of refined or processed foods?
do you eat a lot of things made from flour? do you drink juice? do you eat fruit but not enough vegetables?

ALL of these questions are about blood sugar. food that's really whole and fibrous and green is broken down slowly and has a low glycemic reaction. a little protein each time you eat helps keep the sugar down, too.

when you have a lot of sugar and things that turn quickly to sugar, it messes up the positive intestinal bacteria.

so, acidopholus helps. (a good one has several different bacteria in it and is refrigerated) but a veggie and protein diet is important to support positive bacteria in your system that affect your immunity, as well as your intestinal comfort. it helps me not be itchy.

i ate the same food with both babies, but one slept heavily and one did not.

rrr


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

rrr-
Thanks for the help...
DD is 10 mo old. she eats mainly bm, with a tiny bit of avacado and/or banana and /or apple. sometimes a bit of my fresh veggie juice. i am vegan, no sugar either. little wheat, but some. she was mildly colicy the first three months, so i cut out all the main culprits immediately, and have not gone back. i added wheat back into my diet after it didn't seem to make a difference. i eat no processed foods. only whole foods. lots of fruit and veggies. lots of spinach, lettuces. no kale or other dark green leafs as that gave her gas.
i take a probiotic every day. i eat a decent amount of nuts.
i got magnesium by itself, it is 325 mg (or was it 375mg







) I have calcium /vit d combo tabs, but haven't remembered to take them.







:

maybe this child is just a light sleeper?







:


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

i just wanted to repeat that the calcium/magnesium thing has been a lifesaver for me. between the cal/mag/vitamin d i take and the prenatals i get 800 mgs of magnesium spread out over the day and i forget how much calcium. my baby slept 6!!! hrs in a row last night! she has not done this since she was tiny.

and i can admit that my diet which was saintly during pregnancy has been the worst ever since i had babe. i cannot for the life of me figure out how to eat healthy with my clingy (at the moment) high-needs child. i know if there is a will there is a way but i am not able to do it and i will confess here. i gave up dairy when she was younger but was so hungry i started to eat sugar as a pick me up and am now addicted!!







sigh. so this ugh is becoming a woe is me instead of what i meant to say is....even if you are not eating a great diet (at the moment) the calcium/magnesium thing can really help. i honestly thought nothing would help me and baby-loo sleep when really there was a simple solution -- time and supplements. my chiropractor reminded me today that he told me this long ago when she started to sleep poorly but i didnt think well i didnt think it would work at the time and i wasnt desperate enuf i guess.

big thanks to rrr. there is a mom and dtr sleeping much more peacefully thanks to you.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

hollyhobbie-
just wanted to say taht i totally sympathyze with the sugar. I NEVER ate sugar until after DD was born, and then went bonkers with it. I have been slowly cutting back, and then QUIT last week. The first two days were the hardest. Now i am doing pretty good w/o it. I don't do coffee either, so now it's just sleep deprived me. :LOL


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

i'm glad that the cal-mag is helping. it's only part of the picture, but i know i needed more magnesium than i was getting.

i used to take lots of calcium without magnesium, which helped a little. but upping the magnesium has been dramatically different for me.

i come from a long line of headachey, constipated insomniacs, who have a lot of skeletal muscular pain and anxiety.

how's that! all those symptoms are helped by more magnesium.

i want more dietary sources, which are better absorbed. it has helped to join a subscription farm this summer, because they gave a a lot of greens that we didn't normally buy.

keeptrying with the dark greens. if they seem bitter or too spicy, like mustard greens, sautee with olive oil and garlic and then add a little sugar with the soy sauce right at the end. or use that seasoned rice vinegar, which has sugar. it's a balanced flavor.

the balance of calcium and magnesium is something you have to experiment with. if you have too much at once, it will give you too loose of a stool. but other than that, there isn't much risk that i can find.

you can always space it out, or try a different form. the powdered magnesium, which you mix with warm water, seems a little stronger. but maybe i'm just measuring it wrongly.

i crave sugar because i stay up to late chatting with you all and i'm too tired.

it's typical for sleep deprived new moms to crave sugar, which can lead to yeast and thrush.

there's great info from hilary right now on kefir over on the vax board. i think the thread starts, it's official....

good night all, rrr


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

many many thanks rrr for all that you have posted here.
i really appreciate the time you've given...


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

didn't mean that in a whiney way, sorry.

i gotta' start setting the timer on my computer time.

i bet you would like learning about this: www.kefir.net

i also found some sites about fermented veggies like kimchee and saurkraut. but i can't remember the sites. hilary has pointed some of us to researching this.

sleep well everyone. i thought tonight, wedged between my 2 sleeping children, how precious this time is. gratefulness takes constant reminder.

rrr


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by rrr_
*
sleep well everyone. i thought tonight, wedged between my 2 sleeping children, how precious this time is. gratefulness takes constant reminder.

rrr*
yes, ITA. No matter how little sleep i get, i NEVER think about weaning, moving dd to a crib, CIO. I just look at her adorable face, feel her next to me, and smile that i have the most beautiful girl in the world.









I tried for 4 years to get DD, so maybe i am just thicker skinned then many as far as how little sleep i can survive on.








s to everyone


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## bemommy (Sep 21, 2003)

Yup here, My 9.5 month old dd was looking to be a decent sleeper. Then at about 4 months old she started teething. . And hasn't stopped. She's now got 9 teeth, soon to be ten and I'm lucky to get 2-3 straight hours of sleep. I figure it's got to stop sooner or later. . there are only so many teeth that she can get. . Right?

Bemommy


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by bemommy_
*I figure it's got to stop sooner or later. . there are only so many teeth that she can get. . Right?

Bemommy*

:LOL :LOL :LOL


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

bemommy, look back at page 2 of this thread and find my post from 10/20/03.

there might be something there that would help.

i don't know how recently you joined us.

rrr


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## UK Mom (Jul 2, 2002)

I didn't realize what I started when I started this thread!! I really appreciate all the advice that has been given, and the magnesium info from rrr is really interesting. I took magnesium before having my ds and it really helped me feel better and cut down on sugar. I have never been sure if it is ok to take while breastfeeding, and meanwhile, being sleep deprived, I have become addicted to sugar again! I will certainly try magnesium again (already take calcium).

I don't think I can BF my ds any more in the day, as he feeds all the time! (At least 10 times a day.) But even if I can get better sleep with the help of magnesium, even if he is still waking a lot, that will help.

Good luck to all of you out there!


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Here's something I posted awhile back, and got no replies.

"I've been reading this book "Superimmunity for Kids" by Leo Galland. In it, he recommends magnesium supplementation for babies with intestinal spasms and irritability or if the baby sleeps irregularly and restlessly.

Anyone heard of this? Is it safe?

He suggests 100 to 200 milligrams of magnesium a day, using either magnesium citrate or milk of magnesia.

The book is rather dated...written in 1988."

Interesting, isn't it? I didn't give dd any magnesium because I am scared to give her anything. I also worry about taking much myself while I am breastfeeding.

BTW, dd is sleeping as bad as ever. Up every hour. Ugh.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Island mommy- scroll back. rrr speaks about supplementing with magnesium. i have heard mamas report its success. we are still trying it and hoping....


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## Island Mommy (Mar 26, 2003)

Yes, I've seen what rrr says, but isn't she talking about the mom taking magnesium? The book I quoted suggested giving magnesium to the baby.


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

whoops
sorry about that....


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## bemommy (Sep 21, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by rrr_
*
there might be something there that would help.
*
Yes, I posted to the thread before reading the whole thing through. DD nurses quite a bit through the day and BM most always comes before solids. Reading the stuff on cal/mag has made me realize how horribly bad I've been at keeping up with my vitamins and supplement. I was so good for so long taking those prenatals and DHA. I need to get back into that and should try adding a mag supplement at bedtime.

Thanks!!

BeMommy


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

hi--it's late, here, so i'll write quickly.

i didn't want to give bad advice, so i've been looking on line to support my experience with magnesium.

here are some sites you could look at from google: magnesium.

1. the magnesium deficiency catastrophe. shows a list of magnesium helping ailments.

2. rapid recovery from depression using magnesium treatment.

it's on page 2 if you google magnesium.

boy does he have a lot to say. could take you a couple days to get through it, but there is a ton of thought provoking info, there. also some good food charts.

he recommends a book called, the magnesium factor, by mildred seelig and____ rosanoff. i'll have to look for that.

read his section called, collected thoughts on dosage. he talks about the different sources of magnesium. some are apparently better absorbed.

i've been recommending magnesium oxide--it doesn't have much flavor, it's soft. i like it better thatn magnesium carbonate. but he strongly recommends magnesium taurate.

i don't know how easy it is to find. let me know where you do find it and what you think. none of these is expensive. it seems worth a little experimentation. we could benefit from our collective experience.

between 20 and 75% of the western population is magnesium deficient, depending whom you ask.

NERVOUS about taking magnesium when pregnant or nursing? google magnesium and infants and read the titles. they are all positive.

this might help:

1 oz toasted what germ = 90 mg
1/2 med avacado = 103 mg
1/2 C cooked spinach = 65 mg
1/2 oz pumkin seeds = 75 mg
1 tablet magnesium oxide = 250 mg

i need 400 or 500 mg of extra magnesium a day to feel good.

the mag/depression guy thinks i have to take more of the magnesium oxide to get what i need, than i wd. the magnesium taurine. maybe...

he thinks it's the magnesiums that you absorb less well that can cause diarrhea.

google magnesium and infants to see about safety for infants. if you are taking more magnesium, maybe your baby will get more. milk remains rather stable in its make-up, but if the chemicals in broccoli can get through, then maybe magnesum can, too.

sorry to give soooo much info.

nursing 10 times a day? can you do anything to make 1 or 2 of those sessions more serious to cut down on snack nursing and night waking? just a thought.

rrr


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## hollyhobbie (Jun 13, 2002)

rrr, i also nurse all the time during the day and wondered if you had any tips on how to really settle down and nurse. my g/f who formula feeds told me to get her to nurse longer but i for the life of me cant figure out how. we always nurse in our big rocking chair or bed. usually we have a cd on in the am but i dont think it distracts her b/c she is used to it. dunno how else to get her to not be such a snacker. she has never nursed more than a coupla minutes in her whole life! sorry to hijack.

thanks for the more info on magnesium. i will have to check what kind i am taking. something is upsetting my insides. thought it was dairy but maybe it is the magnesium....


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## MamaMonica (Sep 22, 2002)

I used to take a Cacium/magnesium (mostly mag) supplement before bed and it really helped with restless legs, but it upset my stomach (even the smallest dose) really bad so I discontinued it.


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

hi. so i googled MAGNESIUM AND DEPRESSION again to follow up on the link i suggested yesterday, rapid recovery from depression using magnesium treatment, and i found another site by the same guy that discusses post partum depression and recommends magnesium glyconate.

he shows a picture of the bottle, which is very helpful.

i think it's carlson's chelated magnesium glyconate.

please go to www.newtreatments.org/depression

if you can't find it, google magnesium and depression. it might be on the second page.

it's not that i think you're depressed, it's just that this guy has done a lot of research and experimentation with different magnesiums.

he may be wrong in some of lhis claims, but from what i've read so far, there is no harm in trying. so, check out these sites and let me know what you think.

rrr


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

hollyhobbie,

can you talk more about your and your baby's schedule and her eating and nursing habits?

my kids were the worst nursers when they were trying to get enough liquid in their system to poop. poop seems to influence a lot of bad behavior around here.

are you giving her food snacks so that she's not really hungry when she nurses? does she drink juice or other drinks? does she drink water? water isn't bad, just part of the whole picture.

does she nurse better lying down?

does she have a solid nursing session at naptime or upon waking up in the am? what about at bedtime?

does she nurse more when she is tired?

a la leche meeting could be realy helpful.

if we talk in more detail, we might come up with a solution.

you could also post a thread about how to get a snacker to nurse longer. might bring some good ideas.

rrr


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## ambika (Oct 8, 2003)

Howdy Mamas,
My 10.5 month old son is also waking a lot and has been for the past several months. I'm starting to think that since so many of us who are choosing to parent in this way (BFing in the FB) are having such similar experiences, that this type of behavior in the babes just might be NATURAL and NORMAL.

I have been struggling myself with what to do to make night time more peaceful, and what I've come to finally is to stop fighting it and embrace it as a natural event. Granted, my son is not waking every 30 minutes like some of you sleep deprived mamas. But it must be 8 times a night(?) I stopped counting, and some nights do seem better than others.

anyway, in a few years we will probably look back on this time so fondly, and just think, when our babes leave the nest how we will treasure every moment we got to spend in such intimacy with them.

Maybe if our son is still waking like this at age 3 I will sing a different tune, but for now, I'm beginning to count my blessings instead of my hours of sleep, and it has totally changed my experience.

Let's draw strength from each other and send each other good vibes all thru the night since we are waking up so much!

I'll see you all tonite!















ambika


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Ambika!!!

ITA with what you said. I am reading Ourbabies Ourselves. I find it facinating. Especially that the US is one of the few countries where the family bed is not the norm. Mamas all over the world consider waking to feed their babe throughout the night, and some constantly during the night, as normal. We are so pushed to have our babies sleep through the night, no matter at whose expense, that we start to feel like we are doing something wrong.
Albeit, there may be things to assist in creating a more peaceful rest, but for the most part, i think it is we who are doing right!

Anyway, i hope all the mamas are doing well out there.


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## ambika (Oct 8, 2003)

Mona,
Thanks for the nice welcome! I'll have to be on the look out for our babies, ourselves. sounds like a good read!

I am going to climb into bed now and snuggle up with my loved ones!

Isn't it the BEST to wake up with a happy smiling baby by your side in the morning?!

Ambika
PS our son Jahnu was born 12/20/02, just 5 days before your little girl!


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

surrender to motherhood!

i went to the store that sells a lot of expensive, special supplements and bought MAGNESIUM GLYCINATE.

the woman at the counter said that the customer response to that kind of magnesium is positive.

she explained that chelate just means it's bound to something else. in this case, glycinate is an amino acid. it is said to be easily absorbed and MONA-- it's not supposed to affect the stomach at all.

i am not really bothered by the cheaper magnesium oxide, but some people are. you should try it, though, because it's so much cheaper.

so, does anyone else want to test this magnesium glycinate with me and see if they can tell a difference?

this is also the one recommended for depression.

the woman at the nutrition store said she takes a whopping 1000 mg. of magnesium oxide in combination with B6. she doesn't take any calcium by the way, but says she eats a calcium-rich diet.

for those of you who came in late, magnesium should help you rest and sleep better, especially when taken at bedtime and when you get up at night.

it also helps with skelatal-muscular tension and pain, headache, constipation, asthma, etc.

is this of interest or are you guys tired of the magnesium story?

rrr


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

NO NO NO!!!
keep it coming rrr!
i think the mag may finally be helping with us. or something is...









i think it is facinating. i've noticed that i've had less headaches since taking it.

i'll be interested to hear about your results. when i run out of the mag oxide i am taking, i would be willing to switch to the other to see if i notice anything.


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## UK Mom (Jul 2, 2002)

rrr

Since you are our current magnesium guru







do you know anything about magnesium citrate? That is what I take. Maybe in the UK there are different forms, I don't know, but the label says that this is supposed to be a form that is easily absorbed.

I have started trying it and calcium, so we will see if there is any difference - let's hope so!


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

ukmom, what proportion of calcium to magnesium?

try 3:2 or 1:1

this is not usual in the selection in the store.

all i can say about the citrate, which is citric acid, is that most kinds of magnesium are cheap enough that you could compare and tell us what you think. it's individual.

compare it to magnesium oxide, $2.50 for 100 tablets of 250 mg.

compare it to magnesium coupled with B6. they sell it that way, i haven't tried it.

compare it to magnesium glycinate, $20 for 100 caplules of 100 mg each.

mona--what is your headache history and how did it change with pregnancy and breastfeeding.

that is a good topic for a poll if anyone knows how.

rrr


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

rrr-my head aches have been from mold and lack of sleep, I THINK. But who really knows? I've had them for at least the last 4-6 months. Nothing migraine like, and nothing to cause me to take tylenol, as i don't take that unless it is an emergency. but they are almost always there. i think the magnesium has helped, although i imagine cutting out sugar has helped too.

rrr, what profession are you in, if you don't mind me asking.


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

mothering! homeschooling! laundry! dishwashing! hooray!

my degrees are in german, which i'm not much using right now. i had a very health-nutty, hippy-for-a-while childhood that influences my diet, etc.

but this magnesium search is driven by my family history of headache, skeletal muscular pain, insomnia, constipation, etc.

rrr


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## BrettsMama (Oct 17, 2003)

I am SO relieved that I am not the only one going through this. We've struggled with Brett's sleep, or lack thereof since his birth. I am so exhausted. He wakes up anywhere between 3-14 times a night! Most often, he wakes up 6-10 times. Brett does have GER and has been on Zantac since 5 weeks, so I think that may be part of it. I suspect, though, that it's mostly just the way he is. We've tried everything (not CIO or anything like that, though) Something that I've recently drawn a connection with, though, is that he sleeps much worse at night when he's been very overstimulated or overtired throughout the day. But he's very inconsistent so I still feel that it is mostly just the way he sleeps. He used to take 2-3 20-30 min naps per day. The last few days he's been taking an hour long nap and 2 or 3 other naps. He's been sleeping a bit better at night, as well. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he is *finally* falling into a better sleep pattern and I can finally get some







.


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## paradisegirl (Nov 2, 2003)

My daughter is 23 months now and never slept through the night. She sleeps with us but I breastfed her and she used me as a pacifier at night, all night long and I could not sleep with her always doing that. I finally weaned her a couple months ago because I am pregnant and had to take antibiotics and she now sleeps all night long...as long as her head is right next to mine on my pillow







:


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## natashaccat (Apr 4, 2003)

now I'm feeling kinda lucky dd only woke up 7 times last night


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## gostosura (Nov 3, 2003)

Hello! I just stumbled on this discussion board and am really excited about it! My dd is almost 11 mo. and has been sleeping with us her whole life. my dh loves cuddling with her in the night. she has been sick with a cold for 2 weeks, recovered, then teething for a week, and now has a horrible sounding cough in the night. so, i am exhausted! but reading about magnesium supplements made me remember vitamins! So i started taking my prenatals again, and i bought some Mag. ox. supplements. i feel great after just 2 nights of it. and Camila is still waking lots in the night. maybe it's just the placebo effect, but whatever it is, it is helping a lot! thank you rrr for your suggestions!


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

sometimes magnesium seems to make the difference between CRANKY SLEEP AND PEACEFUL SLEEP, even if we're nursing at various intervals.

when i was waking up more in the middle of the night, it helped to take a whole or 1/2 magnesium then, and i would fall back asleep easier.

don't forget the water.

rrr


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## lovebugmama (May 23, 2003)

I was lurking around on this thread and decided to get some mag ox and try it myself. Ethan has been sleeping sooooo much better (hence I am too!). He is now only waking 2-3 times per night which is down from about 6- 8 times. The only side effect is that I have been having diarreha in the morning. I think it is related to the mag since I can't think of any other cause or change in my diet and I don't feel sick at all.

It is worth it though to get more sleep at night.

I just wanted to share my positive experience with you and thank you for your very helpful suggestion.

I am also going to recommend it to my friend who has a terrible time getting sleeping due to skeletal/muscular problems and pain.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I should have been counting my lucky stars.

A recap for you all, Aidan has tons of allergies and it affects his sleep. We are finally starting to figure it all out and are doing much better in the sleep department, waking every 2 hrs and sleeping 10-12 hrs a night. Very restful and peaceful.

The other night I was making a Thai dish. The green curry had peanut oil in it (Aidan is allergic to peanuts). I quickly went online as I thought it was safe regardless. I reread that peanut oil only affects something like 2% of peanut allergy sufferers, and of those 2% their symptoms are mild and not dangerous.

So I give it a try.

What a freaking mistake.

I had one bowl and I didn't give any to Aidan.

That night, up every 40 min, crying upon waking. Nursing like crazy. He woke up after only 9 hrs of sleep (which he used to do constantly, I never connected it to allergies until now). Cranky mood all day. Runny nose. Diarrhea, and a HUGE bright red ring around his anus everytime he takes a poop. No eczema this time.

And I haven't even started to describe his behavior.

He is LITERALLY bouncing off the walls. He is purposefully hurting our animals, he is purposefully hurting us. He is screaming and he is not listening to anything we say. He is most definately NOT himself. People who see him everyday are asking what "I" did to him! It's really insane.

Regardless, I just wanted to point out some more medical causes of nightwaking to see if it seems familiar to anyone.
Luckily, I can normally sleep through the every 2 hr wakings no problem. All of a sudden its morning?! Which is good, as I'm sure the magnesium has some corn derivative in it (the bane of my existence I tell you).

Amy


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## rrr (Aug 8, 2003)

lovebugmama, ask for a straight magnesium glycinate. here is what this bottle says,

"is absorbed via a mechanism similar to that used by amino acids and unlike typical mineral ion absorption.

is not dependent on stomach acidity for absorption.

does not change bowel habits.

Magnesium is an essential mineral that acts as a cofactor in many metabolic processes such as energy production. Magnesium also functions in muscle relaxation and nerve transmission.

Does not contain wheat, gluten, corn, yeast, soy animal or dairy products, artificial colors, sweeteners,or preservatives."

the brand is metagenics.

i haven't really had enough time to test it yet. i wanted to wait until halloween chocolate was over, because chocolate gives me a lot of tension.

if the magnesium oxide is causing loose stool, maybe the mag glycinate would be worth it.

what does ukmom have to say about the magnesium citrate? the citric acid is said to help absorption some.

corn in the cheap magnesium? here's the label: magnesium oxide, cellulose, talc,sodium starch glycolate, starch, silicon dioxide, croscarmellose sodium, polyethelene glycol, kelp, magnesium stearate.

this one costs 2.50 for 100tablets of 250 mg. there might be a better selection at the healthfood store.

rrr


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## stirringleaf (Mar 16, 2002)

Amy D you are making methink i have an alergy prone son...although your description of "peacful " nihgt made me laugh cuz i feel insane from waking up every 2 hours all night! i mean i laghed at how differnt one's perspective can be relative to what they are used to....

the last couple days he has been wild and kind of "mean " like purposefully hurting, grouchy, etc. he had bright red ring after hispoop, like you described... but---he pooped wheni was in a store with him and i had to wait to take him home to change him so he had to sit in the car for 10 minutes in poop... but i have noticed this other days lately too, he has been rashy. i have NO idea what it could be as i stopped monitering his food ( and mine) long ago. i have been ascociating the rash with acidic foods, not allergens, but i think i wll start paying closer attention.

i keep meaning to jump on the Magnesium thing though..i will get some and report back soon!

this is a great and informative thread!


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## mittendrin (Nov 5, 2003)

:
o boy,
and i thought i was the only idiot getting up 10 and more times a night. actually i don't get up so often anymore cause i decided, 14 mos old jakob is going to cosleep now, cause i'm sick of running around like a chicken all night between having to pee constantly (pregnant!) and him waking up a lot. i have not figured out why he's not sleeping. i blamed it on teething, allergies, eczema, overstimulation, room too cold, room too hot, tv too loud, house too quiet, and whatelsenot! i don't think it's any of it, and while he was still nursing a few times a night he actually slept better! he selfweaned at 11 months and i prayed for a good nights sleep from then on, but nope!
i put him down around 8 in his crib in his room and get him the 2nd or 3rd time he wakes up crying, usually around 10 or 11. then he sleeps through til around 5 or 6 using up 2/3 of the space in our kingsize bed while mommy and daddy have 10 inches each. he'll be tossing and turning until he is finally awake and ready to rumble between 7 or 8. hey, at least i get to have sex if we time it right, make sure that movie we're watching doesn't last too long though, hahahaha.
i thought about not getting pregnant before jakob doesn't sleep better, but o well, i'll just be tired for the next 5 years of my life, one day they'll sleep through, right? please, somebody tell me, they'll sleep through, please!!!!!!
hang in there, girls!
annika


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## Elizabuddy'smama (Jul 10, 2003)

Wow, what a great thread! I just read through the WHOLE thing trying to learn as much as I can from all of you. Elizabeth, my 9 month-old DD is also frequently waking up. It's really started to bug me just in the past month or two. I'm too near-sighted to see the clock so I have no idea about the time/ number of times she's waking. All she wants is to nurse and she hardly makes a peep as long as I whip that boob out really fast. It just gets really annoying in the morning when she wakes up too early for herself, dh, and me. She ends up trying to crawl all over the bed (pulling curtains, poking me in the face, trying to grab my thermometer etc. . .) and making a big disturbance. I end up just holding onto her ankle so she can move a bit but I can catch her if she falls off the bed. Eventually dh or I take her into the living room and let her roam around while we dose on the couch. Finally she'll realize that she's still totally tired and she'll come back to bed to nurse and often go back to sleep.

I have a couple questions for you guys. . .

When we talk about nursing frequently during the day so the babe isn't using night time to make up for lack of day nursing, how often would you say a 9 month-old baby should be nursing in the day? She's not taking much in the way of solids but she does seem too interested in life to stop and nurse. I remembering hearing that as they grow their tummies do too and they don't nurse as often. That's why I haven't thought much of her going 3-4 hours, sometimes more, without nursing in the day.

Also, I want to try out the magnesium and also some B vitamins. Any suggestions? I already take a prenatal and that's it. Is it too much to add to a multivitamin?

You guys are great and I really feel like I'm not so alone here. I don't know any other moms who can say they haven't slept over 4 consecutive hours since the day their baby was born.


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