# anyone have the fetal ejection reflex in more than one birth?



## snowmom5 (May 8, 2008)

Another thread about pushing got me thinking. I had the fetal ejection reflex with my last birth. Freight train that it was aside, it was kind of interesting.

I'm wondering, if all goes well with my next birth, what the chances are that I'll experience it again. Like one article I read a long time ago suggested, I think it was helpful that it was quiet and dark and everyone left me alone.


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## Novella (Nov 8, 2006)

I guess it depends how you are defining it - I've read some different takes on it. FWIW, here's my experiences:

For singleton #3 and the subsequent twins, labour progressed in a textbook fashion. Then, I was suddenly seized by this absolutely overwhelming "Baby coming NOW whether you are trying or not!" feeling. Baby born over 2 back-to-back contractions.

Some define MFER by the accelerated Freidman's curve of active labour (3X as fast). If you do, then I didn't have MFER. But if you look at a very, very quick, completely involuntary "pushing" stage, then I had it for every birth after my first two.


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## broodymama (May 3, 2004)

I didn't with my first birth - hospital birth, "you're fully dilated so go ahead and push", not listening to my body, etc.









With both of my homebirths I experienced the fetal ejection reflex. Freight train, yes, but so efficient! My 10 lb and 9 lb 9 oz girls were just so incredibly much more easy to birth than my 8 lb son.


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## storychick (Mar 14, 2006)

Both my homebirths definitely were -- I hate pushing, so I didn't. lol My body got them out anyway.

My first I don't know how to define it -- my body was definitely involuntarily pushing, like in FER, but it was more like throwing up not like the reflex I experienced with my 2nd two. I was not actively pushing the way I hear people describe, it was more like "omg here it comes again blaaaaaaarrrrggh this hurts aaaaagggghhhh oh getting better phew snore". For four hours. lol So I don't know if that was an ejection reflex working against some asynclitic positioning, or what. I was not directed to push nor was I told "its time to push now" or anything like that, so it was self-directed.


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## snowmom5 (May 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Novella* 
I guess it depends how you are defining it - I've read some different takes on it. FWIW, here's my experiences:

For singleton #3 and the subsequent twins, labour progressed in a textbook fashion. Then, I was suddenly seized by this absolutely overwhelming "Baby coming NOW whether you are trying or not!" feeling. Baby born over 2 back-to-back contractions.

Some define MFER by the accelerated Freidman's curve of active labour (3X as fast). If you do, then I didn't have MFER. But if you look at a very, very quick, completely involuntary "pushing" stage, then I had it for every birth after my first two.

I don't know anything about Friedman's curve or defining the reflex as 3x as fast - it sounds like that would be about labor in terms of dilation, transition, etc. That's not what I mean when I talk about the reflex. What I mean is the "pushing" (or lack thereof!!!) stage.

But now I'm curious - I'm going to have to research this other definition of the reflex that you have mentioned. My labor was very intense - no break between contractions - and the transition part was relatively quick (5 cm to delivering in under 90 min). Though there were a couple hours in the beginning of what would be "normal" progress, 1 cm per hour type of thing (I was 3 cm/80% before labor started).

To Red Sonja, yeah, I guess what I like about it is the efficiency. If it's going to be so intense, might as well get it over with quicker. (Though it was kinda traumatizing, physically, in that I was shaking so badly afterward that I couldn't hold the baby and had to say no when the doc wanted to put him on my chest. It felt like some sort of shock. Good ol' freight train hit me when I was finished riding I guess...)

(I think if the freight train comes my way again I'll be thinking "All aboard!" I think the strangest things in labor, like during those final moments when Johnny Cash's ring of fire song was going through my head LOL)

Thanks ladies! anyone else please chime in


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## koalove (Apr 18, 2007)

i have never heard of this reflex. what is that? is it just that crazy overwhelming feeling of needing to push the babe out? my last 2 babies came out in 2-3 pushes and truly, i did not really have to think "ok im pushing now" it just happened. out of my control. is that what the reflex is? i guess i thought that was normal, although, my last one was born in 45 minutes start to finish and i know thats not normal!


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## snowmom5 (May 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *koalove* 
i have never heard of this reflex. what is that? is it just that crazy overwhelming feeling of needing to push the babe out? my last 2 babies came out in 2-3 pushes and truly, i did not really have to think "ok im pushing now" it just happened. out of my control. is that what the reflex is? i guess i thought that was normal, although, my last one was born in 45 minutes start to finish and i know thats not normal!

It's not a feeling, it's an action. Your body does it through no voluntary act on your part. (it sounds like you might have experienced it.) It just happens, comes on like a freight train. Here's one link to read about it, there are others of course http://www.collegeofmidwives.org/pra...1/MFer_01a.htm

Novella, from that link, I noticed this, you might find it interesting. I haven't gotten a chance to research that other angle yet.

Quote:


Originally Posted by
This phenomena is a constant "exception" to the rules of labor as expressed by Friedman's Curve, which graphically represents labor as a linear process, inexorably slow, innately painful. Most importantly, this linear concept see labor and birth as solely dependent on incremental hard work and ability of the mother to tolerate the pain rather than using her internal resources to "facilitate" or surrender to her labor.

Koalove, here's another link http://www.collegeofmidwives.org/new..._define01a.htm (duh, there's that bit about labor progressing 3x faster, guess I ought to read a little closer







)


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## LiLStar (Jul 7, 2006)

is having the "urge to push" different from the fetal ejection reflex? with my 2nd (1st vaginal) it was a lot like throwing up. There was a definitely an urge to push, and I know my body was pushing, but I couldn't tell you if it would have been possible for me to stop pushing, because I never tried. I was pushing with everything I had *in addition to* the pushing my body was doing itself. still took 2 hours! I did notice that there was a point i'd sometimes reach during a push where the pushing I was doing myself matched the strength of my body's pushing, and whenever i could reach that it hurt less.


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## annakiss (Apr 4, 2003)

Both of my births were like that. Relatively short labors all over (6-1/2 hours active labor first birth (10 hrs from first contraction) and 2-1/2 hours active labor for second (4-1/2 hours from first contraction)), and uncontrollable pushing at the end. With my first, I didn't know I was pushing for a long time (baby was just moving through the birth canal), then I realized I was and joined in the last 20 minutes.

With my second, I started looking for pushes earlier, but then was just pushing involuntarily for the last few minutes.

Both of my boys were low-interference homebirths.


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## TzippityDoulah (Jun 29, 2005)

I'm not sure how to best explain this... but I had both and involuntary pushing and a voluntary pushing. My body was pushing but I also pushed with it. If I tried to stop pushing it hurt and I felt like everything was going wrong. if i matched the level of pushing with the pushing my body was doing it still hurt a lot but it felt right.

I had NO control over it. the only thing i could do was push along with it. then the baby flew outta me. it was totally out of my hands - it happen on it's on even though I ws pushing with it if that makes any sense.

the other two beforehand i pushed myself. but i think b/c this was at home (and a UC) I was more open to letting my body lead. I also had this involuntary inner pushing way before I was fully dilated. once the pushed starte I dilated as the baby came out.


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## LiLStar (Jul 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HennyPenny* 
I'm not sure how to best explain this... but I had both and involuntary pushing and a voluntary pushing. My body was pushing but I also pushed with it. If I tried to stop pushing it hurt and I felt like everything was going wrong. if i matched the level of pushing with the pushing my body was doing it still hurt a lot but it felt right.

yes! This! That was me exactly


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## TzippityDoulah (Jun 29, 2005)

well glad to know I'm not crazy!









really though I'm never sure how to categorize it on here - was it MFER? or "urge to push" or? lol... b/c it was both completely. and very FAST!


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## MamaMem (Sep 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HennyPenny* 
I'm not sure how to best explain this... but I had both and involuntary pushing and a voluntary pushing. My body was pushing but I also pushed with it. If I tried to stop pushing it hurt and I felt like everything was going wrong. if i matched the level of pushing with the pushing my body was doing it still hurt a lot but it felt right.

That is how I would describe the last 3 of nearly 4 hours of pushing I had with G.
(yes, he was c-sec, bc his head was wedged just a little off-kilter. But that is another story)


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## mommy2two babes (Feb 7, 2007)

My Mom once described it as pushing with the tops of your ears.
W checked me at 7 cm and I was pushing involutarily at that point no stopping it. DS was born minutes later.


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## ~Katie~ (Mar 18, 2007)

I've had it with both births, the first was with a cervical lip so I was instructed not to push until it was out of the way but I could do "mini" pushes. The best way to describe that was pure hell. With the second, well there was nobody to tell me not to push and she was coming no matter what (which explains the UC part). Going with it was much more pleasant.


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## callieollie (Jan 2, 2007)

With my first birth, I had an epidural and so had no urge to push. I was told when to push. As they let up on the epidural, I started feeling the urge to push and would just start pushing when I had a contraction. It was involuntary but then I'd voluntarily push along with the contraction once it started.

My second birth was completely different. I had only been at 6 cm 20 minutes perior to her birth so I wasn't expecting anything any time soon. I had no urge to push. I all of a sudden said, "I have to poop" and then I just started "going." It felt like I was vomiting. I couldn't stop it and I had no control over it. My body completely pushed on its own and there was no warning it was going to start pushing. I didn't push along with it either. I just sort of was on a ride with my body. The only thing I did at all was try to relax and breath between the 3 contractions I did have during pushing because it was a little scary having my body feel so out of my control so I just relaxed and waited for the ride to start again!


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

yes, i had fer with bothbirths, but i sort of had to "help" my second birth get TO that stage...I started pushing withOUT a pushing urge, and after a few contracs of that, the freight train took over and FER set in. With my first, it was a complete freight train with nothing from me to get it started. both times, i "helped" my body push, but i'm honestly not sure how much hlp my conscious pushing was compared to my bady's FER.


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## Robinna (Aug 11, 2003)

both times. I had nothing "deliberate" to do with pushing whatsoever, my body just did it. 1st time at home, 2nd time in hosp.


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## mwherbs (Oct 24, 2004)

yes with my first I had coached pushing but with the other 3 they were born fetal ejection - very short pushing stages all but the emotional effects are quite different.
For me coached pushing added in greater disassociation , so I felt outside myself and no really connection with what I was doing - fetal ejection was so much more of an awareness connected action.


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## MyBoysBlue (Apr 27, 2007)

I had it with both births.

The first was in hospital and I told the nurse I was pushing. I wasn't doing it my body was, after that they coached me through it and it took about a half hour to push him out. I think it might have gone better if I didn't get the coaching.

The second was a spontaneous birth. I felt the urge with maybe 3-4 contractions and he was born.


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## phatchristy (Jul 6, 2005)

This has happened with all of my births... (all homebirths)

Your body just starts pushing. Pretty cool and intense actually!









My last birth, actually went accidental UC. DH actually called the mw when I told him that baby was coming, and she was like "tell her not to push"...

At that moment it was like the funniest thing ever...in my head I was like...'you really think I'm controlling this?' I think like less than a minute or so after that he'd popped out and DH caught him with a towel!


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

I have heard "FER" used to describe both the biomechanical action of that "urge to push" where the baby's head pressing on whichever nerve causes you to bear down and also to describe the full on "tissues get the heck out of the way and baby drops out with no actual pushing effort from mom."

I've had both. With #1, I had waves of an uncontrollable urge to push. People describe it as like the waves that make you upchuck when you've got a stomach bug, and it was like that. I'm sure some people can resist the urge to puke or the urge to push, but it was very difficult.

#2, however, was a completely different matter. I was sitting on my knees in the tub, feeling a bit ... different... and noticing that the waves of pains across my back felt better when I sat straight up and sort of bore down gently..... I'd gotten in the tub at 6cms, had been in the tub less than an hour, and had not experienced anything close to what I'd call "transition," but the back waves were kind of close together (no one was timing anything)

and then my water broke wtih a huge pop and baby dropped from still fairly high (but engaged? I don't even know that) to crowning instantly. I shrieked, bolted completely upright and stood up. Got irrational, refused to sit back down, and wound up pushing her out onto the bed a minute with very little work and no tearing at all. It had all the trademarks of that Odent piece someone linked to - it was a set of physiological happenings that all lined up at once for baby to go from not-born to born without a real pushing stage at all. Very different from that "irresistible urge to push." Maybe related, but very, very different.


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## TzippityDoulah (Jun 29, 2005)

i had both sensations. i had a time of urge to push and then a time were my body took over and baby went from 0-4 in one contraction/ he just popped right out. i pushed into the pain b/c it helped me deal with the intensity of it. but really it wasnt me doing the pushing.


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## 98741 (May 17, 2006)

yes, with both. i call it "throwing down". it was like vomiting, in that there was no stopping it, my body was doing it no matter what i did, but it was down instead of up.


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## kayabrink (Apr 19, 2005)

I didn't know there was a term for it, but that is exactly how ds was born. It wasn't anything I could control, and I wondered afterwards why people kept talking about _how_ to push and _coaching_ for pushing etc.
I do hope it happens again this time because really I felt like it was the 'easy' (if somewhat alarming) way to go.


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## Peppamint (Oct 19, 2002)

I had it with both of my waterbirthed/homebirthed babies... I knew I was close and then suddenly my body was pushing. The only difference between the two is that my 3yo didn't fly out as easily, which I attribute to nuchal hand. I could feel my body ejecting her but she didn't come out as easily because of that arm!


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

This happened with my last birth. It was so intense, I will be curious to see if it happens this time. I always describe it as feeling like a mama cat giving birth. I had been reclining in the tub trying to relax and all of a sudden I just had to sit up/squat right then, had to- nothing stopping it and it was kind of like throwing up in a way although I never thought of it. There was just no control over what my body was doing- I kind of felt like a passenger and I do remember it being painful, I was so glad it was quick.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

Yep. I had it both times also. My labors were both very long -29 and 42 hours respectively. With my first one I went from a stretchy 2 to pushing within 20 minutes- though this was after hours of hard contractions. I fully dilated but slowly with my second then stalled at 10 cm for about 7 hours then when I was least expecting it out flew a baby. Both times there was no control over it.


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## StrawberryFields (Apr 6, 2005)

You women are so brave!!!!! I had FER with my last birth but not with my first. My first birth was the regular, irresistible urge to push. My body started forcefully pushing when it was time, but they were actual pushing contractions that I was able to work in conjunction with.

My last birth, the second I felt the urge to push things immediately shifted and the baby basically came shooting out. In less than one minute I went from saying that I needed to push, to laying on my back with the baby on my chest. It was like a freight train rushing through me.

Ds' birth was long and draining but the intensity of dd's short labor coupled with FER was traumatic for me.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

Really? I think that the FER was the only good thing about each of my births. It happened so quickly it didn't give me time to get scared, feel pain, or freak out about pushing. Also, after long labors (I noticed most women on this thread who experienced it) I don't think I would have had the stamina to conciously push.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

I showed up at the hospital with my first after I had some bloody show and ctx were 5 mins apart, as per my OB's instructions. I was something pitiful like 1 cm dilated, and they sent me home, clucking at me that "first time labour takes a long time, you probably don't need to come back until tomorrow." A couple of hours later, my water broke, ctx were more like 2 mins apart, and I was getting overwhelmed, so we headed back. They took their time with me, had me get changed, put the monitor on me, came back to check it, it wasn't working properly, so they came back again a while later. While I had been changing in the bathroom, I found myself squatting down involuntarily with each ctx. While I was being monitored, what I thought were my stomach muscles were clenching during ctx. I realized later that the squatting and clenching were my body starting to push. It didn't make me feel like pushing, though.

Once the nurse looked at the readout from the monitor, she rushed to checked me and I was almost crowning. They wheeled me to the delivery room, had me climb from one bed to another (ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!), and then said I could push. Actively pushing felt wonderful and not really the same as the involuntary pushing.

With my next births, I was always looking forward to pushing, since it felt so wonderful with the first one. I felt an urge to push and went with it, so I don't know if my body would have pushed on its own with those ones. It almost felt like since I wasn't clueing in that it was time to push, my body was just going to go ahead and do it, but once I clued in and joined in, things were great.


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## MangoMommy (Oct 20, 2008)

Wow, I never knew there was a name for this!!! I had this with my newest one, and someone else described it as the same type of involuntary reflex as throwing up (but of course much better LOL) and that is what happened to me. I was checked by a nurse and was 5cm and I had about 3 contrax (hard ones, my water broke) and all of a sudden my body took over and started pushing her out. I couldn't stop it, they tried to get me to slow down so they could get my midwife in there but there was no stopping and I delivered her w/the nurses and my DH. It all happened so fast, and it was like my body just went on autopilot and pushed her out. I didn't do a thing. It was intense!! I felt like I couldn't catch my breath afterwards (also shaking) I really felt like the whole experience just blew my mind!

I was 5cm and in 10 minutes, she was born.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StrawberryFields* 
You women are so brave!!!!! I had FER with my last birth but not with my first. My first birth was the regular, irresistible urge to push. My body started forcefully pushing when it was time, but they were actual pushing contractions that I was able to work in conjunction with.

My last birth, the second I felt the urge to push things immediately shifted and the baby basically came shooting out. In less than one minute I went from saying that I needed to push, to laying on my back with the baby on my chest. It was like a freight train rushing through me.

Ds' birth was long and draining but the intensity of dd's short labor coupled with FER was traumatic for me.

I will say that the whole power and intensity of it left me kind of ... stunned. In the pictures, I look sort of poleaxed.

Of course, it was also 3 am and I hadn't really slept in about 27 hours. Heh.

And because she didn't spend any time sitting just above my perinium, I really felt the Ring of Fire, which I didn't at *all* the first time (overwhelming urge to push, but about 40 minutes of it). WIth #1, I not only had no ring of fire, but I actually had a pleasant sort of thrumming sensation around him as he finally emerged. So I was not prepared for the BURNY BURNY when #2 dropped to crowning immediately.

OTOH, the post-baby endorphin rush with #2 was still pretty awesome. However, it kept me from some much-needed sleep that took time to make up.


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## Romana (Mar 3, 2006)

I only had it with the birth of #2. With the birth of #1, I waited 7+ hours for it without anything, and the pushed the baby out in 20 min without any urge to push/fetal ejection reflex. I was undisturbed and laboring at home for all but the last 1.5 hours or so of the birth.

With #2, it was a very disorganized feeling, but I definitely felt it. It manifested in large part as a sort of feeling like I was going to throw up, almost, but backwards. I pushed with it and without it and had another short pushing stage and uncomplicated birth.

I pushed even when I didn't feel it with #2 because I hate pushing and the urge/reflex feeling wasn't consistent, almost as if my body just wasn't communicating very well with itself. But I knew what needed to be done and got that over with as quickly as possible! (I hate pushing.)


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## Mommy2Austin (Oct 10, 2006)

I guess this is what happened with my DS2. I had my first contraction at 7:00 am. My midwife arrived at 9:00am-9:30am and I was already very much in active labor. She checked me at about 10:00am and I was at 7 cms. She put me on the toilet to try and get me to go and I couldn't. Next thing I remember I'm sitting in a chair in my kitchen getting my antibx for being strep B positive...The second midwife showed up shortly after and at 11:34 my water broke as I sat in the chair. The first urge to push came right as my water broke. They hustled me into the birth pool (which was barely filled enough because everything happened so fast) and I immediately was pushing. No chance to stop or catch my breath. He was born at 11:43 am







9 minutes from water break to baby


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## Mountaingirl79 (Jul 12, 2008)

When Emmett was born, the OB was telling me to push but I didn't have the urge yet. When I felt it, I couldn't have stopped it if I tried, and it felt like he was coming through me. I just gave up control and went with it. Then he was out within 15 minutes. I really hope my next birth goes similarly. It was fantastic. Afterwards, I got up, cleaned off and took some pictures.









( I had gbs too, but thanks to me getting there in transition, my little guy came so fast that they didn't have time to start the abx. It all went well though.)


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## liliaceae (May 31, 2007)

With my first birth, I had an epidural and coached pushing, no urge to push. With my second, my body started pushing by itself and I couldn't stop it, and baby was born in a couple minutes. I actually had the nurses yelling at me to stop pushing because the doctor wasn't there yet, and I could not stop it. Everybody was freaking out and the nurse ended up catching the baby.









Oh and I mentioned the term "fetal ejection reflex" to the OB and nurse afterward, and they laughed like I was joking. Guess they'd never heard the term.


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## maryjane (Jul 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *callieollie* 
My second birth was completely different. I had only been at 6 cm 20 minutes perior to her birth so I wasn't expecting anything any time soon. I had no urge to push. I all of a sudden said, "I have to poop" and then I just started "going." It felt like I was vomiting. I couldn't stop it and I had no control over it. My body completely pushed on its own and there was no warning it was going to start pushing. I didn't push along with it either. I just sort of was on a ride with my body. The only thing I did at all was try to relax and breath between the 3 contractions I did have during pushing because it was a little scary having my body feel so out of my control so I just relaxed and waited for the ride to start again!

Wow! This was exactly my birth... from the 6 cm to birth in 20 minutes to the 3 ctx to get her out. I wouldn't say it felt scary to me, but in comparison to my other two, the pushing was much less voluntary. I much preferred it this way - I felt that it was so much more productive. And obviously faster!


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## sg784 (Dec 19, 2004)

I had it with my homewater birth. I was on hands and knees and suddenly jumped up to just knees and then feet, and semi swuatted so my butt was still in the water. It satisfied the urge to "stand and deliver" From the time I experienced the URGE to push to birth was only 15 min.


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## celestialdreamer (Nov 18, 2004)

My first was a induced hospital birth and I didn't notice this, I felt like I had to actively push her out. My second was a very rapid homebirth and I had this reflex very strongly. I had 2 pushing contractions and he came flying out! I definitely had that "ring of fire" sensation. My midwife didn't actually make it in time and there was NO way I could have stopped or slowed down I had no voluntary control of it. I did feel like I needed to push along with the sensation, but my body was the one in charge!

It was actually a really overwhelming experience, but I would still gladly take that over another c/s like I had with baby #3!


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## alfabetsoup (Jun 13, 2005)

This is all so very interesting. I had epidural and coached pushing with DD1 so never really felt an urge to push. DD2 was posterior. Started contracting at 7am, went to hospital at 9am, was 5cm (best midwife quote: 'oh, you'll be done by noon!') Laboured all day and stalled at 8cm sometime in the afternoon. AROM, meconium, moved from midwife unit to L&D, monitors, midwives concerned about baby's heartrate and position and called an OB. He did some kind of manuever (ooooouuuuch) to turn DD2, left the room and 10 mins later I started pushing but I didn't really have anything to do with it. I had to push along, like a PP says but there was nothing I could do. DH and midwives helped me onto my knees and DD2 just shot out in 10 mins of pushing. It was like a freight train, I just remember being so glad it was over. I never knew there was a name for it.


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