# School and Corporal Punishment



## Anglyn (Oct 25, 2004)

This makes me so mad, am I over reacting?

I live in Texas, ds went to an elementary school where this was never an issue, as far as I know, it was not even an option at that school. But we moved, so I could get back closer to "home" and we are in a much smaller, more rural district. Anyway, he is in middle school now and this is the third year in a row Ive gotten the "Parental Consent for Administration of Corporal Punishment" form in the mail. And the third year I have NOT signed it. Heres what bugs me so much, I mean apart from the obvious fact that its even considered an option: It says that my child will ONLY recieve cp from "the principal, assistant principal or teacher" and the "instrument" used (does that give anyone else visions of torture?) will be picked by the "principal or his designee" so....bascially any adult there can hit my child with any "instrument" they see fit?? But I think what bugs me most of all is the fact that the school district will, "honor a parental request that coporal punishment not be administered to his or her child"...........
Maybe Im being picky, but to me, this wording implies that they are being very generous to HONOR my REQUEST that they not beat my child, which in turns implies that they have every right to do so even against my wishes. Maybe this bothers me so much because last year my son got into a fight (ok, fight, he walked away after being punched, was then jumped on from behind and layed there and took several punches before finally defending himself, then was told that fighting is a mutual thing, he could have walked away, meanwhile, where were all the teachers who will be responsible for spanking when my child was being pummeled and how many punches would they have taken before hitting back?) When the principal called me he stated that my child had chosen being written up over taking licks. Since I never signed the consent form, why were licks an option? Since when is the method of discipline ds's choice anyway?

Im just worried that next time, they wont bother to check the chart for the form, if my child is hit (and Im sorry, but spanking seems like a very mild word for something they want to use an "intrument" for, remember the big wooden paddles with holes in it when we were kids? I do.) If my child is hit, will I be told that I have no legal recourse? Because they school is in charge of him while he's there?

We are getting two foster children and the state will not allow us to use corporal punishment on them (not that we would), so why is it ok for the school to use it on my child? Its ok as long as its the state doing it?

Now he doesnt get in much trouble ever anyway, but you never know. Seriously, do I have any rights or does the school have more say so than the parent? Because if they do, thats seriously wrong. I know they need to be able to control students, but imo, if my child is acting up that much, they need to be calling me to come deal with it anyway. Besides we all know that this type of discipline doesnt work anyway.

Not for the first time I wish I had the money to quit my job, stay home and home school. Sheesh.


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## fire_in_july (Jun 10, 2005)

I agree that it's messed up that they even have the option, but here's what I would do when that consent form comes this fall.

I *WOULD* return it, but instead of checking off my consent and signing it, I would write in HUGE letters on it:

"I do *NOT* give my consent for ANY corporal punishment to be used on my child. Should my lack of consent be ignored at any time, I will be rapidly contacting my attorney AND filing criminal assault charges."

Maybe that would make them think twice about not checking the file first?


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

We used to get a chopice. I would have chosen the paddle hands down over getting written up. I grew up in TX schol and even took a paddeling once just to sign the thing. (If you got paddled you got to sign it. if you were taking it for free just to sign not only did you get addled but you had to do it in front of the class =- aaaahhh middleschool in TX) anyway most parents have specific ideas about how thier chidlren should be disciplined and I know ity seems odd to you but some parents do not have a problem with a paddeling and neither do thier children (which seems to me like it would be highly inefective but that is neither here nor there) and would prefer it as a quick reselution rather than having to mess with afterschool stuff.

So long as they only paddle students whose parents sign (and I do think a middle schooler should be allowed to choose for themselves and think it is cool that they give them the choice) I don't have a problem with it. I think it is a law suity waiting to happen but that is not my or my childs problem. I do feel much differently about younger children but by the time a child is in middle school I think they should have some say in what thier consequences are. and even if I don't agree with a parent I htink they have a right to choose one way or another how thier childs misbehavioor is handled.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Oh wow. I believe you Anglyn - but its difficult to wrap my brain around. It really sounds *primitive.* I agree that you need to send a letter for his file that states in no uncertain terms that your child is NEVER to be struck AT ALL.

How are we to teach our kids that their bodies belong to themselves and nobody has a right to ever touch them in a way they are uncomfortable with -- when stuff like this happens in our schools and is deemed acceptable or normal?


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Corporal punishment should be banished from schools by federal law. Right now it is under state law. I think more than half have made it illegal. The rest leave it up to individual school districts.

Children should never be allowed to "choose" being hit. How can anyone think that is a "choice"? It is not. It is coercive, manipulative, and cruel to put anyone in a situation like that.

Many other countries have banished corporal punishment from their school systems. The United States has lagging school scores compared to many of these countries yet we still (general we) equate discipline with spanking and assume without it, schools will suffer. Ironically the states that still uphold corporal punishment are generally the lowest scoring states in the nation. Well, it isn't ironic is it? It makes perfect sense.

Spanking is disproportionately higher in poor and rural school systems. Minority children are hit far more often than caucasion. People need to wake up and realize the harm that spanking does to all of us. It is not a "personal choice" that happens in an educational vacuum. It affects our society, and the way we think about education.

Anglyn you have to decide how comfortable you are with the risk that he may be spanked. I would certainly send a letter stating clearly that you are prepared to take legal action immediately if he spanked. I personally, would contact the principle and superintendent and (calmly) inform them of this and ask them for advice ensuring that the situation never be allowed to reach that point. Let them tell you how to prevent any possible mix up or mistake.


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## Anglyn (Oct 25, 2004)

Actually I had thought of writting on the form and sending it back and I think I should do that. Writting a letter is an even better idea. One good thing, we have a new principal this year so maybe he's not as much of a !$% as the last guy was. Trust me, the superintendent already heard from me after the incident where my child was punished for defending himself. I know there is a no tolerance policy for fighting, but I felt that maybe when doling out punishment they could have taken into account that my ds had NEVER, no, not even once, been in any kind of trouble at school before (the other child is in trouble constantly, for picking fights) and the fact that he did try to walk away and it was witnessed by several students AND A TEACHER! I even got out thier handbook and listed in my letter at least five alternative punishments that were more minor than either spaking or the writeup that made him ineligible for the big end of year field trip and could have been applied since it was a first offenisve with extenuating circumstances.

So yeah, after the ten kinds of hell I raised then, Im sure the superintendent will remember me. I just dont want my kid to suffer for it. I gotta tell you, I swear that the old principal was just watching and waiting and hoping for my child to mess up the rest of the year. I did go to him first, got nowhere and so then went to superintendent


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## Jade2561 (Jun 12, 2005)

Corpral punishment in schools is crazy. I can't imagine how a child must feel getting paddled by a stranger. I can't believe it's still allowed. Gross!


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## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

boy, am I glad I live in California. Heck with high prices, I am staying.

I felt like I was reading from a 19th century novel... Much strength to you mama!


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## merrick (Dec 8, 2003)

I agree, it should be illegal. It is absolutely ridiculous and barbaric that it is still allowed.

I grew up in a rural area. Paddlings were common in my school. I never got one. I did have to choose between taking licks and having morning detention though. I got in trouble for being late too many times. What can I say, I'm just not a morning person.

Anyway, I took the detention. Yuck. Just the thought of that sleazy pervy assistant principle spanking me made me want to puke. No way was I giving him the pleasure.


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## Sherra (Jun 27, 2005)

Good grief it suprises me that this is allowed.

I was at a private school in 3rd grade. I won't ever forget them hitting me. It was not a positive experience, it didn't teach me ONE thing except that I was the one to catch the blame, it was in essence, retarded. I should have been busy learning, not in fear.

I was on a field trip and a guy I had a crush on called me "queen of the ants". I retorted "queen of the idiots" to him. I am the one who got spanked for calling a name with a paddle by the principal, not the guy for calling me a name first. It didn't stop me from calling names either..although I stopped on my own after awhile when I matured.

What did I learn? That it was ok for others to call names, not me. That a boy got away with it, not me being a girl. That it is ok for people to hit. That it is ok to be humiliated, to be bent over and another man look at my butt and hit it, it's part of life. Thank god I didn't transfer that to thinking it was ok for a man to hit me later maybe in a relationship, another personality might have. What did it do to my self esteem? I'll never know the price..but it was a stupid and humiliating way to punish and didn't solve anything that I remember TO THIS DAY with disdain.

Even though I would never allow a stranger to hit my girl, I still do not want any other strangers allowed to hit children. How come? First, it depends on the child's personality but we have no clue what message that sends..esp coming from a stranger. Second, it is open to too much interpretation. In my case, I was not really calling names, I was just playing the boy's game and he was laughing with me. Third, what happens to children does affect my child living in the world and advocating violence for a stranger to do to a child is just downright bad.

Sherra


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## babybugmama (Apr 7, 2003)

I wonder how many other parents are aware in your child's school of the policy. How many see a paper, sign it without reading, and go on oblivious. I wonder what would happen if you brought it to greater attention, ie writing a letter to the editor of the local newspaper?

We worry about the violence in media, our increasing awareness of the violence in our world, the increasing violence in our schools...And yet, by this simple letter we condone the violence. _Whether you sign it or not_ Because it says this is a permissable act, perhaps not for your child...but still...it *is* permissable. We say it is okay by even allowing such a letter to exist, whether we are knowingly or not to saying it is okay.

We allow for this model to occur. The model of using corporal punishment which likely leads to the child is more likely to be physically aggressive. And yet there is also all these questions of why are some children more likely to be a bully. Hmmmm

And then to ask my child to open herself up fully, to become a sponge of knowledge in school, and then to have the ability and freedom to critically look at this information and evaluate for herself, all so she can grow and blossom...is this what I want her to absorb?


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## babybugmama (Apr 7, 2003)

I wanted to add...it would be difficult to determine specifically what factors led to a higher incidence of corporal punishment dependent upon region, city/rural, upper/lower SES. There are too many confounds. Education, Stress levels (financial, marital, etc), Access to support...etc.


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## Plummeting (Dec 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lilyka*
So long as they only paddle students whose parents sign (and I do think a middle schooler should be allowed to choose for themselves and think it is cool that they give them the choice) I don't have a problem with it. I think it is a law suity waiting to happen but that is not my or my childs problem. I do feel much differently about younger children but by the time a child is in middle school I think they should have some say in what thier consequences are. and even if I don't agree with a parent I htink they have a right to choose one way or another how thier childs misbehavioor is handled.

I totally disagree. I believe spanking should be illegal - period. I don't even believe parents should be allowed to spank their own children, much less let someone else spank them. And I strongly disagree with letting children choose to let someone *HIT* them over taking another form of discipline. A child has to have a serious lack of self-respect and self-esteem to feel that it is okay for someone else to hit him/her. I'm not going to encourage fostering that mentality in children.







:


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

Paddling or spanking or other forms of physical discipline are unnecessary.

Teaching someone that "taking licks" is an acceptable way of paying for their transgression is shortsighted. Where is the lesson in remorse? In apologizing? In somehow making it up to the person or people who were actually harmed by the bad behavior (assuming that the person getting the punishment is the one who merits it)? In restitution? Instead, many receiveing "licks" simply feel somehow strong for being "man enough" to take them. Or they feel martyred for their cause, whatever it might be. (Like, sticking up for a friend, or showing off for others.)







Doesn't sound like any lessons were really learned. No, it just sounds like Authority got to have public proof of its Power, with the coerced assistance and submission of the Powerless.

When I have been victimized (and I have, most recently by someone at work), while I _do_ have revenge fantasies, I am civilized enough to recognise that though this might be an instinctual response, it doesn't solve the problem, whatever the problem might be. When the midwife abandoned me, we initiated a complaint to the licensing board not to punish her, but in the hopes that this might prevent it from happening to someone else. (Unfortunately, it didn't work, but that is another story. And I am persuing another method.) With my boss, I am working to find a solution. I'm not letting it go.

We shouldn't seek revenge, but justice. Corporal punishment is revenge-based and is, ultimately, a power trip for those who are in the position to dish it out. They do it because they can, and we shouldn't permit it.

And, frankly, even if I were someone who used corporal punishment, I would refuse to let anyone else have that control over my child.


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

Wow. I didn't know it was illegal in Washington state, because it was certainly used at the middle and HS that I attended in rural Wa. But apparently, the law was passed in 1993.

Here's a cool site about stopping corporal punishment. I think it's creepy as anything, and the guy who "administered" it at our school was certainly one the middle school girls stayed away from normally. I don't think it's ever acceptable. Schools should be setting a good model for homes, not setting an example for abusiveness and physical violence as a solution or "choice" for anyone. Unless you want to encourage that sort of thing. Yuck.

Is it any surprise that many of the states in which CP is used most frequently also correlate to the most impoverished and lowest-performing schools in the nation? 1 out of 10 children in Mississippi are hit. That's wacked out.

http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

Cause the fighting thing sounds like something that happened to my ds and the vp the same way ....

That said I would double check the form because in the criminal justice classes for Texas I learned this:

While the child is in/at the School they are considered "in loco parentis" they can do a lot of what they want from the time they step onto school grounds and off.
They can do things that we would be charged with violating civil rights if we did at home.
Because they are "in loco parentis"
it stinks


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## Anglyn (Oct 25, 2004)

The letter quotes the Texas famiy Code and says that the following persons may use corporal punishment for the reasonable discipline of a child:

1 parent or grandparent
2 stepparent
3 an individual who is a guardian of the child and who has the duty of control and reasonable discipline of the child.

Im guessing "in loco parentis" pretty much means guardianship while they are at school. I can see In going to have to go to a school board meeting.

OH, and though I did state that my child really wasnt at fault in the fight, I in no way meant to imply that I think the other child should be spanked. Considering his history of such behavior (and all the years the school has been spanking him, and that obviously hasnt stopped the behavior) what I think is in order is COUNSELING of the child at least, his parents as well if they will consent to it and someone caring enough to find out whats going on at his home that he continually acts out in this manner.


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## Jade2561 (Jun 12, 2005)

A little OT but, did you know that minority students are paddled at school at twice the rate of white students?







:


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

"
OH, and though I did state that my child really wasnt at fault in the fight, I in no way meant to imply that I think the other child should be spanked"










Pm me where you are if you like-if you are in my district I can help though its not likely you are







a lot of the old contacts from when we pulled ds out are still the same


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

While I realize that not using public school isn't easy for everyone, why would you knowingly send your child somewhere where that's happening?


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## karinasusy (Jul 12, 2005)

In addition to contacting the school with your specific instructions for your son, you should contact any and all officials of your school district and municipal, county and state government. Try get a petition going to change those rules and regulations.

In short, physical assault of any kind to any person (and kids ARE people) is against the law.


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## DavinaT (Jun 28, 2005)

I am absoluteyl horrified hat it is allowed in the U.S.
I am postign from Irelan and it was banned here in the 1970's. Even before that in the 60's and 50's it was extremely rare to use in in the vast majority of schools.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Am I the only one who noticed in Lilyka's post that her school had kids sign the paddle after they were hit with it, and that they could choose to be hit for no reason other than to get to sign it?!







To me that's a sign of the whole attitude about corporal punishment that's one of the reasons it doesn't work very well!







I went to school in Oklahoma, and "swats" were doled out pretty often to misbehaving kids, who then spent the rest of the day swaggering around acting brave. Didn't seem to serve as a deterrent at all--the same kids were beaten over and over again, while those who behaved did so for different reasons.

Anglyn, ITA that you should do everything you can to go on record forbidding the school from beating your son and that you should try to change the district's policy and/or state law.


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