# Feeling desperate: 18 month old who fights sleep



## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Hi. I've been trying to get a wide variety of viewpoints on my situation, so that I can figure out what to do.

I have an 18 month old who is strongly resisting naps and bedtime. Besides the fact that he seems to need his nap, I use that time to eat lunch and do projects with ds1. I really really need him to go to bed at a reasonable time, because it is the only time of the day that I have to myself and to talk with my husband. My 18 month old is extremely affectionate and sweet, but very high-needs. I really need him to go to bed to keep my sanity. In terms of him being high-needs, he wants to be held frequently and he nurses on a newborn schedule. He's only recently experimenting with solids, so he pretty much nurses for all his nutrition. I'd do anything for him, but I need a break too.

Up until a month ago, he would only nap in the Maya Wrap. I now lay down with him for bedtime and naps. He's never really nursed to sleep. He fills his belly up and then tosses and turns to sleep; he did that even as an infant. He's VERY snuggly and touchy, btw, if that's relevant at all.

Anyway, so the kids go to bed between 7-8. They consistently wake up between 6-7am. When I lay down with ds2, it may take an hour or more for him to go to sleep. It kills most of my evening. In the meantime, as I'm laying down with him, he may play or crawl around or kick and hit me. If I tell him not to kick me, he looks at me and does it again. Obviously, an 18 month old doesn't have much in the way of reasoning and everything's an experiment, but he kicks really hard and sometimes he hurts me. I find myself getting very angry at him and resenting him for this. When he kicks me repeatedly or smacks my head, I get up and leave the room. At that point, he follows me and opens the door to come after me. Last night, I put him back in the room 10 times in a row. I was too upset to lay down with him and I needed to calm down. It took 90 minutes for him to go to sleep. At that point, it was 9pm, and I was really on edge and stressed out.

For naps, he started refusing naps when dh was home, because he didn't want to miss out on any Daddy fun. That led to the realization that he doesn't have to nap at all if things are too fun. So, he's starting heavily resisting naps. I lay down with him, he messes around, he kicks me, cries when I leave, then kicks me again, you get the idea. Then, he might accidentally fall asleep at 3 or 4pm and it messes up bedtime even more.

I'm really at the end of my rope. He needs to sleep. Even if his eyelids are heavy, he'll hit himself to wake back up. And I really rely on the routine to keep my sanity after being with the kids all day long. I need that little chunk of night time to unwind. Him going to bed at 10 or 11 is out of the question. It seems like he is tired, but just doesn't want to give in and miss out on fun. Again, he doesn't nurse to sleep (unless beyond exhausted) and he doesn't sleep in the car either.

What would you do in this situation? Thanks for your input.


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## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeftField*
I'm really at the end of my rope. He needs to sleep. Even if his eyelids are heavy, he'll hit himself to wake back up. And I really rely on the routine to keep my sanity after being with the kids all day long. I need that little chunk of night time to unwind. Him going to bed at 10 or 11 is out of the question. It seems like he is tired, but just doesn't want to give in and miss out on fun. Again, he doesn't nurse to sleep (unless beyond exhausted) and he doesn't sleep in the car either.

What would you do in this situation? Thanks for your input.

I hear ya! Ds is same way, I could have written this myself. If fact, I was just come here to post a thread. My title was going to be "DS freaked out by bedtime routines." One thing, don't buy the No Cry Sleep Solution because it doesn't help. The problem with the book is it doesn't tell you how to actually get them to fall asleep. (I don't think you can make anyone sleep). You can do routines and rock and all that for hours but a kid like mine is still awake. I have actually seen him hit himself to wake himself up. I don't understand. I have tried really hard to no make sleep an issue, as it seem yo have too. Ds does not sleep in a crib by himself, he has never cried it out, he just wants to be awake.

He goes to bed between 9-10 each night which is hard on me, since I work and am ready for bed at 10 which means I have no "me"time or time to grade papers. Ds will sleep inthe car but you have to stay in the car and keep driving. He is a very light sleeper. Once, he is famous for this, my mom woke him up by biting into a taco.

I am still working on this but I try not to get upset. I have stopped laying in a dark room with him because after an hour I am just mad. I nurse him and cuddle him in a darkened living room while I watch tv or read a book.

I am sympathedic to him because as a child I had trouble sleeping. When I was 9, I was regularly up til midnight. My mom says I would just lay in bed for hours so she would just let me get up. I remember those nights. It wasn't manipulation, I just couldn't sleep. I continued having trouble falling asleep till I was in high school and took a yoga class and learned to relax my muscles. I think ds doesn't know how to relax. When I think about it, it would be entirely possible for me to lay in a dark room and not let myself go to sleep and I think that is what is happenind. Ds is not giving in to sleep. I don't know how to do anything about this until he is older and can understand yoga/relaxation.


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## 2much2luv (Jan 12, 2003)

wow, that sounds stressful!

first of all, do you have a consistent bedtime routine? Like bath, snack, brush teeth, read a book . . . (that's just an example, btw) If you don't have that down I would work on that first of all.

Do you think he is overtired? Have you considered moving bedtime back by half an hour or so?

Do you think he isn't tired enough? Have you considered moving bedtime forward?

Do you think he would drink some cool chamomille tea before bed?

What about massage? I'm thinking a full body massage might help him to vent off some of that excess energy he seems to have.

As for naps, do you darken the room at nap time? I suppose that might not help if he doesn't go to sleep at night time either though . . .

I really do feel for you







that alone time is very important, isn't it? I wish I had more advice for you.


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## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2much2luv*







wow, that sounds stressful!

first of all, do you have a consistent bedtime routine? Like bath, snack, brush teeth, read a book . . . (that's just an example, btw) If you don't have that down I would work on that first of all.

Do you think he is overtired? Have you considered moving bedtime back by half an hour or so?

Do you think he isn't tired enough? Have you considered moving bedtime forward?
.

I can't speak for the OP but we have played with bedtimes and 9-10 is the time when it ONLY takes a hour for him to fall asleep while if I try at 8, he still falls asleep between 9-10 but I am frustrated.

Her is a quote from the last issue of Brain, Child in an article by Katy Read called Mom Blame where she describes her son who fights sleep for whom bedtime routines seem to make it all worse:

"The parenting books all said you should establish a soothing routine. I would sit in the gliding chair, turn the lights down, rock the baby as he nursed one last time. . . .the idea behind this peaceful ritual was to send my son the message that it was time to relax and get ready to sleep.
He got the message all right.
As soon as the lights dimmed and the gliding began, my son would pop his eyes open, fling back his head, straighten his legs, and arch his back. . .He would not go gently into that goodnight ritual."

That is my son anyway, too. The routine is just freaks him out because now he knows it is almost time for bed. My idea was that maybe our routine wasn't right for our baby, but after almost 2 years of trying all sorts of routines, I can't say that I have found one that he agrees with. He just doesn't want to sleep.

Frustrating, but I am trying to just accept this as a quirk of the sweet babe I birthed and not let it get to me. Unfortunatly, this means little "me" time at this point.


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## CB73 (Apr 16, 2005)

That does sound really hard! WOW.

My only thought is trying a sleepytime type video....when my DH was transitioning our DS to fall asleep with HIM rather than with me at the breast, a Baby Genius video helped out ALOT. That, with DH rocking him VERY VERY fast in a rocker. (completely against what I would have imagined, but hey..it worked!)

I guess my other thought is having DH be suddenly in charge, or very dominent in the bedtime/nap routines whenever possible. Perhaps that will shift your DC's sleep focus/wakefullness and energy somehow?

Wishing you lots of success and change as they grow up!


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## iamprego (Dec 3, 2001)

Is the 18 month old "over tired" and having an "adrenaline rush" which keeps him from napping/sleeping? My husband comes home at lunch too, and it had the same reaction for naps, but I've managed to get the kids to nap on most days (not every day).... Either we feed the kids lunch around 11:30/noon and then nap..... or, do naps and pray that husband does not wake the kids up when he comes home..... and the kids eat lunch after naps...... I have noticed if I run errands or am even 30 minutes later with naps, adrenaline kicks in and it is just impossible to get naps in..... Really fix the kids on a schedule and stick to it... I know it is hard, but it seems the easiest solution I've figured out...

My 17 month old has bonked me on the head a few times, but I try not to react to it.... He has also pulled my hair lately, again, I try not to react, so he does not get "feedback" that might be "fun" for him to try again for a repeat reaction. That's about all I can think about that topic. Good luck.

Oh, and my experience is otherwise very much like yours...... Even if everyone is "happy" and "not crying" the whole nap thing can still take 2 hours out of my life every day, and bed time took 3 hours tonight. I just don't have 5 hours to "enjoy" laying around in bed with the kids... I have too much to do, that I bounce between some enjoyment with the snuggles to outright frustration that makes me crazy, for HOURS afterward.

Where does the time all go? How do we get it back?

At least with these forums, I can tell I am not the only one with these issues.

Good luck.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Flor*
I The routine is just freaks him out because now he knows it is almost time for bed. My idea was that maybe our routine wasn't right for our baby, but after almost 2 years of trying all sorts of routines, I can't say that I have found one that he agrees with. He just doesn't want to sleep.

My ds is the same, a bedtime rouine just revs him up! I used to sling him to sleep until he outgrew the cradle hold, now we just struggle with it. He was up until almost midnight the other night!


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Ugh, me too, so very much. With the new baby on the way and my new work schedule having me wake up at 4am, going to sleep at 10 or 11 does not work. He always falls asleep at the same time, if I try putting him to bed at 7, 8 or 9. Ugh.


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## thoesly (Dec 23, 2003)

Have you kept a sleep diary for him? All of my kids have sleep issues, and we had to do this for my daughter who suffered the worst. It was the best thing I did. Basically, it entailed backing off for a couple of weeks and keeping detailed notes of when she fell asleep, where she fell asleep, what was happening when she fell asleep, when she woke in the middle of the night, when she fell back to sleep, what was happening when she fell back to sleep, and when she awoke in the morning and her disposition at the time. Once I had collected a couple of weeks worth of data detailing her natural sleep rhythm, I was able to see a few patterns I could work with. I also have a book with suggestions to help "move" sleeptime if necessary (not CIO, though a version of that is in there, too -- I just ignored it). I can't stress enough how helpful the diary was because it revealed so many surprises. It provided the information I needed to effectively help my daughter instead of just doing the trial and error fumbling I had been struggling with.


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## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

I feel like I am hijacking this thread for my own purposes. I am glad there are other gentle moms whose babies still have sleep issues. I think my son is just a kid who doesn't want to sleep no matter how gently and lovingly I try to push him down that path. My job is to find a way to handle this without going insane! And without taking it personally.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

Funny story: my dd hates sleep with the best of 'em. My IL's are down once a week and if I were at an appointment MIL would rock dd to sleep and sing to her. Dd came to HATE the song "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" because it meant sleepy time. A musical book and the Glowworm (that MIL bought, ironically) both had to be ditched because they caused her to freak out and cry when they played the tune to Twinkle Twinkle.

I kept sleep journals for months. I've read the books, experimented with routines. Moved bedtime up, let it slide back. And in the end, she still needs to be forced into sleep most nights. Dh walks her in circles in the darkened house. Often she complains, and sometimes she cries. Nothing else will get her to sleep more quickly, or easily.









I wish I had a magic solution for you. I wish I had a magic solution for me! It is certainly worth trying new things, but there is a chance that there is nothing you can do to change him. How depressing is that? Sorry! I hope you *are* able to find a way to manage that doesn't drive you insane.


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## Vicitoria (Dec 17, 2004)

My gosh, it must be a boy thing! Mine is only 9 months old and is the same way. I know it's over-exhaustion. My solution has involved crying. I know that is generally unwelcome here. But, I will say one thing I have found. When I do allow ds to cry before he sleeps, even in my arms he cries out all the extra stress and sleeps better. I hold him to let him know it's time to sleep and I won't let go. He starts to cry, realizes how tired he is and then will eventually calm down. I'll hold him and almost always he fights me to the point I can't hold him anymore. I put him in his crib for 3-5 minutes and start again. It takes about a half an hour all together. For naps and bed time.


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## thoesly (Dec 23, 2003)

If you've already done the sleep diaries and didn't find any patterns you can work with, my other suggestion is homeopathy. My daughter had patterns to her bedtime sleep, but no pattern was evident in her middle of the night waking. We took her to a homeopath, and within 2 months, she went from waking 3-4 times a night to waking 3-4 times a month. The homeopath could have helped us if the problem had been the going to bed part, too. I have to emphasize here the importance of using a knowledgable homeopath for this, though -- homeopathy often fails simply because the wrong remedy is selected for the individual. We tried some of the formulas at the HFS without success -- then we went to someone who knew what they were doing and our lives improved within a few days.


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## oneotamama (Apr 23, 2004)

Just subscribing to the thread!


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## Icequeen_in_ak (Mar 6, 2004)

My dd has never been a good sleeper. She hates to sleep, I'm convinced.

I tried the routine thing. Doesn't work for us, or our family (my husband works a very unconventional schedule). I follow her cues. Some days she'll nap (she's also 18m BTW) somedays she won't. On the days she doesn't nap, she goes to bed a couple of hours earlier.

I learned a long time ago that it was just less stressful on me to "go with the flow" than it was to get all pissed off because I'd spend hours in there trying to get her to sleep.

Letting go of predisposed bedtimes has really relieved the stress in our house. I do realize that my situation is a little different from most and it may not work for a lot of families out there.

Best wishes to you!


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## Flor (Nov 19, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vicitoria*
My gosh, it must be a boy thing! Mine is only 9 months old and is the same way. I know it's over-exhaustion. My solution has involved crying. I know that is generally unwelcome here. But, I will say one thing I have found. When I do allow ds to cry before he sleeps, even in my arms he cries out all the extra stress and sleeps better. I hold him to let him know it's time to sleep and I won't let go. He starts to cry, realizes how tired he is and then will eventually calm down. I'll hold him and almost always he fights me to the point I can't hold him anymore. I put him in his crib for 3-5 minutes and start again. It takes about a half an hour all together. For naps and bed time.

For naps dh usually holds him in arms and he cries then goes to sleep.

I am laughing about the glow worm and twinkle twinkle. Today we were looking at pictures and I showed him one of dh sleeping with ds in his arms. He looks at it for a minute, then realizes what they are doing and starts shaking his head saying "Nope. Nope, dada, nope," he wanted me to put that photo away!


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

I'm sorry I'm getting back to this thread so late! I really appreciate your thoughtful replies and your shared experiences. In the meantime, things have gotten so much better, but I'm not sure how or why. The only thing I've noticed is that he's very recently cut a molar. So now, it's only taking up to 30 minutes, maybe 45 (sometimes as little as 15 minutes!), but no more kicking me.

With the kicking, as Iamprego mentioned, he was definitely reacting to my reaction. I was torn between sucking up a few kicks/ignoring to take the fun out and telling him to stop (which made him kick more). I know they experiment a lot at this age.

As far as routines, I *thought* we had what was a bedtime routine, but I'm realizing that it's more of my older son's bedtime routine and maybe the little one is really not getting the cues. So we're trying to incorporate stuff for him. Tonight, we all read stories together in the big bed, after brushing teeth and before moving into our own bed.

I will definitely do a sleep diary if it gets difficult again; what a great idea!! We don't do videos so much and not at night. I don't want to create a video habit and it seems like it winds the kids up for some reason. Dh noticed that little ds seemed easier when they did physical play before bedtime. Sort of related, we're wondering if the difficult sleep times were related to him not getting enough satisfying interaction with dh. OTOH, it *could* be over-tiredness. He doesn't seem to require as much sleep as my older son did at this age and he's a more physical child.

Isn't it interesting how there can be so many variables? It's not fun in the moment, but it seems fascinating on different each kid can be. I'm also glad to find so much support from other gentle parents dealing with the same thing. All of this is considered a real "no no" in the regular world. They're supposed to sleep through the night at 6 weeks, etc etc. Sometimes, I feel like I've made too many mistakes, because it's not flawless, YK? Thank you for your help, ideas and support!


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## oneotamama (Apr 23, 2004)

My 14 mo dd is this way. And I get so angry by the time bedtime over. I have to shower at night b/c in the mornings it's just not practical. Read a 14 mo and 3 yo getting into mischief!







Anyway, I lay there sometimes too for what seems forever and just want to shower and get some time to myself.

Today dd is actually napping by herself in bed. Mind you I can count the number of times this has happened on one hand. Up until this point it's either in my arms or driving aimlessly around.

One thing that's helped here recently is that when the days are nice outside, I have them play outside. Hard. Last night we went to a party for our Early Childhood program. Dd nursed, rolled over and was OUT!! She's never went down that easily!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I was going to add that ds doesn't fight sleep as much when we get a chance to get out, even if it's just to the library for story time or whatever. Just so long as we're not gone too long, LOL! At least, in terms of naptime. Nighttime sleep is another thing altogether -- he turns into a wild banshee in the evening, running around and jumping, then wanting to nurse and read in the living room, then running around again, etc. He so delays bedtime, no matter how early we try to get him started in that direction, he's never asleep before 10 pm!


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