# Early bedtime or Late bedtime??



## nurturinglovely (Sep 1, 2005)

So,

Elizabeth Pantley (The No Cry Sleep Solution) Says that kids naturally crave an earlier bedtime and longer or more naps. Well, mine are 3 and 17mo. Both have never been very good sleepers. Like 1 hour naps are long and nursing every two hours all night is good compared to the normaly every hour all night....

Know what i mean?

So, i thought - well, maybe they just need to go to bed earlier. But that meant making sure they both nap by 1:30 so they are ready to sleep again at 7:30/8. And THAT meant cutting out ds 2's a.m. nap giving him only one.

So, neither of their sleep habits changed... if anything, they are now waking up btwn 6:45 -7a.m. No longer the wonderful 7:45 i was used to ....

So here i am at the mercy of mothering gurus...

Send your wisdom, suggestions , frustrations and triumphs....










Navae


----------



## nurturinglovely (Sep 1, 2005)

So it is getting ridiculous....

3 wakings in 3 hours.....

Who wants to wisk me away to the Carribean?







:


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I think that it's absurd that ANYTHING applies to all babies









My dd has always gone to sleep when we do (around midnight) As an infant she NEVER slept as much as "they" said she *should* but she SLEPT. Mostly through the night all the time (by definition a 5 hour stretch)

-Angela


----------



## rainyday (Apr 28, 2006)

At what age did your older child drop her second nap? For a lot of kids is pretty close to the 17 month age, so depending on your child, you might not have that a lot longer anyway...

But, if a later bedtime worked better for you, then stick with it. Or you could try the Pantley bedtime for a couple of weeks to give it a fair try and give their bodies time to adjust.

Or, would your younger child be able to take a morning nap at 10ish (with the earlier wakeup) and then a second nap later? Some kids can't fall asleep early at night with a late nap, but some don't have a problem. For a while, my DS could wake up from nap at 6 and go to bed at 7:15 without a problem. Then you always have an awake child, though, so that may not be so good for you.

3 wakings in 3 hours?


----------



## nurturinglovely (Sep 1, 2005)

I guess a lot of it has to so with his CONSTANT nursing! I wish i could just partially night wean him.... I could easily nurse 2 or 3 times at night; that's nothing compared to what i am used to!

I find myself frustrated because i feel this horrible guilt. Like, "You just need to give.... its only 5 min......." So I try to convince myself that i just need to have a better atitude about it - but it doesnt seem to stick- the next time he wakes up i am frustrated all over againl.

I guess the hardest part is the first few hours after they go to bed. I really look forward to that time as a refueling.... I don't like spending it wondering - what's that noise? Is he awake? Will he go back to sleep? Will one wake up the other?

I am pooped just thinking about it.


----------



## LoveChild421 (Sep 10, 2004)

It depends on the child- ds is a night owl just like me. I have tried to wake him up at 6:00 am so that he'll take earlier naps and then go to bed earlier and it never works. If I try to get him to bed before 10 or 11 o'clock he is just restless and fights it. No matter what time he goes to sleep he usually wakes up at 9:00 am. He also sleeps longer stretches if I put him to bed later. Lately he nurses to sleep around midnight and doesn't wake up to nurse until around 6:30am.


----------



## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

When my son goes to bed earlier, he wakes up earlier. It's that simple. We don't magically get more hours of sleeping time by putting him to bed earlier.


----------



## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday* 
When my son goes to bed earlier, he wakes up earlier. It's that simple. We don't magically get more hours of sleeping time by putting him to bed earlier.


That's the way it is in our house. DD1 prefers a later bedtime which we really like because we can be out and about and not have to be home at a set time for bed.


----------



## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I don't like that book.








My kids go to bed when tired.


----------



## nurturinglovely (Sep 1, 2005)

that is really good to hear. I think we started experimenting with earlier bedtimes when ds 1 was about 18 mo. He used to go to bed around 11 but he would get really cranky at about 7 or 8. But when he when to bed that late he would wake btwn 9-10.....ahhh........

this morning ds2 woke at 7. and i was able to stall actually getting up til about 7:15.

is experimentation really the only way to read what would be best for your kids? (Hows that for a really vague statement!?)


----------



## nurturinglovely (Sep 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
I don't like that book.








My kids go to bed when tired.

when is that? What signs do they show that they are tired?


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I decided when dd was born that I didn't want to ever fight about sleep (or food) So I don't. For awhile she did take a little nap around 7 or 8. But it was NEVER sleep for the night. Now, the "problem" with the late bedtime is that I don't get that down time at night. She goes to bed when we do. BUT she does sleep in in the morning and I can often get some time there.

Honestly, I never spent a lot of time watching to see if she was tired. I figured if she was tired, she would sleep









-Angela


----------



## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *theeLogans* 
when is that? What signs do they show that they are tired?

Whenever. It could be 8PM, it could be 3AM. Signs include crawling into bed & closing eyes. I'm not being snarky, really...they just have always went ahead & gone to bed when they needed to. Because I don't make a big deal of it I think - if I did have a bedtime I am SURE they'd challenge it & fight me. They know they can stay up, and sometimes do after I go to bed...so they don't care. They also sleep in to whenever they need to.


----------



## Malva (Nov 2, 2005)

My now 7yo dd always hated sleep and fought bedtime regardless of the time said bedtime was at. We had to physically hold her down when she was little. For us, things got much better when we started putting her to bed real early (read 7pm), since she wasn't overtired, she wasn't fighting as much. Now, she goes to bed without fussing around 7:30pm.

My 18mo ds is easier to take to bed. When he was still having 2 naps a day, he'd wake up at 7, nap from 10 to 11:30, nap again from 1:30 to 2:30 and go down for the night around 7pm (well, you know how that is, nurse every 3 hours throughout the night anyway but in general, he was mostly asleep between 7 and 7).

Now that he's down to 1 nap a day, he has kept the earlier nap and dropped the later one. So his schedule is now: wake up at 6am, nap from 11 to 1, go to bed at 6. He'll fuss around 9pm to nurse and some nights at midnight as well, then will sleep until about 6.

So early bedtimes work really well for my family. It only works for us because we don't mind eating dinner early and not going out after that. Also, I get home from work at 3:20 and my dh is the sahp so we get to see the kids lots even with the early bedtime.

But each kid is different and each family is as well.


----------



## nurturinglovely (Sep 1, 2005)

I wish it was just as simple as, " well he sleeps betteror later when we do this or that or worse doing this that and the other..." But It isnt! Its one way one day and another the next. Somedays i wonder if it is all in my head.... like, may be i SHOULD just let them crash and rise as needed...

....but i am not sleeping either.....zzz...........zzzzzzzzzzzzz.........


----------



## rebelbets (Jun 6, 2005)

You might want to try even earlier than 7:30 or 8...? For us, 8 is a late bedtime around here. My 11-month-old son absolutely needs a 7 p.m. or earlier bedtime. If we put him down much later than 7, he will fight going to sleep like nobody's business, and we end up rocking/soothing him for an hour or so before he finally crashes. If we put him down around 7ish (or even earlier sometimes), he will grab his little blanket, roll over and go right to sleep, happy as a clam.

I don't trust my son to know when he needs to sleep. He's a baby, and it's his nature to want to stay up and play and enjoy our company. If I waited until he actually crashed out and fell asleep on his own, I'd have a miserable, overtired baby on my hands.

Every baby is different of course, but before you give up on the early bedtime idea, try putting your kids to bed even earlier. If it doesn't work, at least you'll have tried, and you can go back to the routine you were using before.


----------



## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

My son is 4yrs old, has always been a night owl, just like me and hubby, we have always allowed him to sleep when he is tired, and if he sleeps in, then we allow him to.
Usually he goes to bed around 10pm, and he'll wake up around 10AM, and some day's he is a early sleeper and sleeps at 9pm.
I let him stay up till he is tired, and he tells me when he is tired.


----------



## nurturinglovely (Sep 1, 2005)

yeah
I wonder if i DO need to try for earlier.... we went out tonight and at about 7:15 he was losing his mind...(but i wasn't!...congratulations to me...)

I thought i would play around with their schedule today... so ds2 took a nap from 9:45 til about 10:20... then both boys napped together from about 2:30 - 3:30....... we went out, stayed out later than normal... and both kids were asleep by 9. though ds1 did take a while...

So.... I am thinking at least my baby craves earlier - i have noticed that he doesn't have that normal fussy time at night because he's sleeping instead...

that IS nice.

So we'll see how tonight pans out. It has been 1hr. and 15 min.... no cries yet.

Oh! But here is something cute! Who knew my dog would solve sleep battles with my 3 yo???? As long as she lays along side him, he falls asleep so easy; even looks forward to it!!


----------



## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

For those who let their kids stay up until they are "tired"...how does that actually work if YOU want to go to sleep? I am so not a night person...by 10 pm I can't even see straight.


----------



## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday* 
For those who let their kids stay up until they are "tired"...how does that actually work if YOU want to go to sleep? I am so not a night person...by 10 pm I can't even see straight.

Why is tired in quotes? Are you implying they are really not? I go to bed when I want, why does it matter if they're still up? I went to bed last night, for example, with both DD's while the boys stayed up watching movies. So what?


----------



## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

I guess I'm a chronic quote-abuser...I didn't mean to imply anything...sheesh.

I see your boys are 8 and 7, so okay, they can stay up on their own. But what if it was your 4yo and 8mo who were still awake. Do you just leave them hanging out on their own and go to sleep if you are tired?

Was this actually an unreasonable question for me to have asked? I am genuinely curious about how it works. DS is only 3 and I personally wouldn't feel comfortable going off to bed and leaving him unsupervised. I was thinking that people who are saying their kids go to sleep when tired either have older kids, or else the parents are more night-owls than I am. Or maybe they have another strategy I haven't thought of. There's no reason for you to get all on my case for asking for more information.


----------



## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I am SO - SOOOOO - NOT a night person! Not at ALL! I am tired by 8! But, to answer your question, if my 4 YO wanted to stay up, yes, that's OK. She has, many times. She just turns the TV off & comes to join me in bed when done. It really does depend on the kid, I guess. I think cuz we have always done it this way, they're used to it & have never abused it or acted in a way when up that would make me question the arrangement. If they were irresponsible out there it WOULD stop. My 8 month old? Of course she cannot stay up alone! If she's nowhere near tired I MUST stay up. Thankfully she's not a night owl either! I apologize if I came across rude, it wasn't intentional. To me, at least, it just really IS that simple. Seeing as you only have a 3 YO DS I can understand your apprehension. I was simply saying what works here...in your situation I would probably just go insane forcing myself to stay up, or sleep on the couch while he plays.


----------



## nurturinglovely (Sep 1, 2005)

Yeah, I think the initial confusion regarding bedtimes is more of a baby/toddler/preschool thing. Because it is harder to tell when they need to sleep. Sometimes they will be on mulitple winds - happy and even hyper when they were really tired a couple hours earlier. Other children will be put to bed earlier just cause they are used to it - but really they would be fine for another hour.

sometimes different kids in one home will have different needs... wich makes it so much more exciting...














:

**for the record - last night i got the first 3 hours completely uninterupted!!!
but then he was up ever hour and a half.... so a little good and a little not so good...


----------



## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *theeLogans* 
when is that? What signs do they show that they are tired?

My DD is almost 15 months old. Since about 8 months I've been able to identify her being tired when she is 1) cranky and/or not wanting to play anymore and 2) rubbing her eyes. Eye-rubbing is a pretty solid sign of her being tired.

Since I've been able to identify her tired-signs, and also since I shut the nightlight off at night (long story, but I needed it up until then, but it was interrupting her sleep) she's been on a consistent SELF-REGULATED schedule (I stress self-regulated since I've been bashed here in the past for suggesting that she might, like every other human being on the planet, have a schedule) and it's a pretty easy guess when at the same time every night she is cranky and rubbing her eyes - that she's tired.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday* 
For those who let their kids stay up until they are "tired"...how does that actually work if YOU want to go to sleep? I am so not a night person...by 10 pm I can't even see straight.

Yeah, I like to go to bed by 10pm. For the first year of DD's life I just had to deal with it. That's the way it is with babies of course. I'd still have to deal with it today except I got lucky and she seems to like to go to bed at 10pm now too (when she was 6-8 months she went to bed EVERY NIGHT somewhere between 1am and 3am... wow, that was hard!).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Why is tired in quotes? Are you implying they are really not? I go to bed when I want, why does it matter if they're still up? I went to bed last night, for example, with both DD's while the boys stayed up watching movies. So what?

I can't just plop my 15 month old in front of the TV and go to bed. That would be neglect.


----------



## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
I can't just plop my 15 month old in front of the TV and go to bed. That would be neglect.

Hey - if you're accusing me of neglect come right out & say it...if so be prepared for a HELL of a fight!


----------



## kwren23 (Jul 28, 2006)

we have a night owl here, but we are also a family of night owls. dd goes down every night between 2 and 2 30 am and sleeps until 1 or 2. it works for us... i much prefer sleeping in and staying up late to getting up at godawfully early in the morning and daddy works late on some nights so she also gets to spend more time with him this way. whenever i tried to put her down earlier for the night it would always backfire and she would, without fail, wake up at 4 am and refuse to go back to sleep because she wanted to party and then spend the rest of the night waking up every hour to nurse. she just does not work well on an earlier schedule. she likes the one she chose herself. if she goes down at 2 she will wake up 4 times or so to nurse -after one 6 hour chunk with no nursing at all- and sleep for about 11 hours. she takes a 2 to 3 hour nap every afternoon. if i try to put her down earlier she will not nap well either, she will take 15 minute cat naps and be crabby all day.

signs of sleepiness include eyerubbing, sitting quietly and staring (while she will sit and play quietly with her toys she does NOT just sit and stare. she is very busy) she tends to come sit on somones lap when she is sleepy... its one of the only times she is really cuddly. she is always kissy and huggy, but its normally on the go affection not sitting in your lap snuggling affection. she will suddenly start throwing fits over tiny little things... if someone accidentally knocks over her teddy bear its the end of the world and shes sobbing. you really only have to look at her... she gets very sleepy eyes... half closed, a little glazed, its always been one of the easiest ways to tell if she was sleepy.

ds on the other hand was not a night owl. he was asleep every night by 9 and up at 7 or 8 in the morning. he's here on the weekends and is up by no later than 9. while i would love to stick with my normal lazy morning routine i get up at 10 on the weekends to make him breakfast and hang out before dd wakes up. usually during the week i get mommy down time in the morning... i get up an hour or two before dd and read or do something for myself.


----------



## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
Hey - if you're accusing me of neglect come right out & say it...if so be prepared for a HELL of a fight!

OK, if you have a 15 month old (or younger) that you are plopping in front of the TV and going to bed, sure, I'll say it: you're being neglectful. Bring it on.

I didn't say that it would be neglectful of me to do it in order to have a fight with you, though. I was just a little surprised about your one-size-fits-all advice, especially in a thread (and board) about children far younger than yours. Most parents here have babies and toddlers.


----------



## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Words fail me, so I'm just gunn'a let it go...good luck to you!


----------



## nurturinglovely (Sep 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
OK, if you have a 15 month old (or younger) that you are plopping in front of the TV and going to bed, sure, I'll say it: you're being neglectful. Bring it on.

I didn't say that it would be neglectful of me to do it in order to have a fight with you, though. I was just a little surprised about your one-size-fits-all advice, especially in a thread (and board) about children far younger than yours. Most parents here have babies and toddlers.

To claim that another mom is being neglectful is really harsh - especially here on mothering... However it's true; this thread as mentioned earlier was intended to help us figure out bedtimes for the much younger kids....

I think it would benefit us all to stick to the topic at hand rather than use a forum to dish it out.


----------



## Imogen (Jul 25, 2006)

My son has always had a routine in the evening... his bedtime is usually between 7.30-8.00pm. Would he stay up later if allowed (I can't think of a better word at the moment) to? Sure, he'd want to sit and watch the Cartoon Channel until goodness knows what time









But I have to get up at 6am every morning for work, so physically, I just couldn't do a stay up until 11pm-12pm every night. He's 2.5 yrs old.


----------



## Alana (Jan 4, 2005)

My 3 dc are in bed by 7:30..asleep usually by 8 or 8:30 (the 6yo and 4yo look at books if they arent tired...2yo usually just zonks right out)

We have had this bedtime since ds1 was a baby. I started by figuring out his natural daily rhythms, and after a few months it all fell into place...and the other 2 fell right into it as well.

My dh sometimes works 12-16 hr days..so Im with the dc ALL day 6 days a week, without anyone. After the dc go to bed...that is my time..if I dont have that time, Im not a good mother.

Yes, we do all wake up early...dc wake up by 7am..dh and I strive to get up at 6.

We just like to start the day early...too much to do!







(course the times Im too enamored with all the things there are to do besides sleep and stay up till 2 am...waking up early REALLY hurts!)


----------



## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

*


----------



## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

.


----------



## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)

I just wanted to give a gentle reminder to keep this thread on topic, and play nice. The UA states:

Posting in a disrespectful, *defamatory,* adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, *insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner*, toward a member or other individual, including *casting of suspicion upon a person*, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, namecalling, *personal attack*, or in any way which violates the law. (the bold is mine)

Please be aware of this as you post









Thank you.


----------



## deditus (Feb 22, 2006)

The early bedtime didn't make sense to me. If I put my 5 month old dd to sleep at 7pm, and a 5 mo. old sleeps an average 10-11 hours at night (which dd does), then she would be getting up at 5 or 6 am. That doesn't work for me! So I went to 3 naps instead of 2 and a 9 or 10 bedtime.
She really only makes it about 2 hours before she is ready for a nap. A typical day would be, wake at 8 am, nap at 10am, wake at noon, nap at 2pm, wake at 4pm, nap at 6pm, wake at 7pm, start bedtime routine at 8 or 9. It is working pretty well. This is not a set schedule, but is about how it generally goes. I took a week or two of keeping track of when she starts to get cranky before I started this routine. We need to lay down before she gets cranky or she will get the infamous second wind and fight sleep the rest of the day.


----------



## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

In our home my DD has always been a great sleeper. She either shows pretty obvious signs of sleepiness (crankiness, crying at the drop of a hat, hitting, biting, etc. . .) or just asks to go to bed. Usually during the week since she attends school she goes to bed around 7pm. On weekends she will stay up a little later (maybe till 10pm) but will take a 2-3 hour nap during the days with DS. Now, DS is a completely different story. Heck, until he was maybe 20 months he was still waking to nurse at least every two hours. . .often more. He then knocked it down to once a night, and now most of the time sleeps through. He is not easy to put down to bed like DD is, and usually stays up until 10 or 11. Only problem is I then have to wake him up at 7am to take DD to the bus for school. Then he takes a nap from 11am until I have to wake him up again at 2:20pm to pick DD up from the bus. I really hate having to wake him up all the time, but I do have to get DD and DH is at work. I also wish DS would go to bed earlier because DH usually has his grad work to do on the computer and I like to go to bed around 9:30pm but am forced to stay up with DS most nights. I can't just leave him alone because for him it wouldn't be safe. He'd be climbing on the counter in the kitchen, finding something noxious to eat (even in a clean house kids seem to find something), banging on the office door so DH can't do his work, coming into the bedroom and jumping on DD or my head, etc. . .It just wouldn't work for him. Oh, and to answer about when he stopped his morning nap, it was maybe around 16 months.


----------



## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

treemom, I don't have 2 kids, which I know makes it more complicated. But...I have never ever stayed up with DS beyond my own point of comfort, say later than 10 pm. We have a bedtime routine that starts no later than 9, and at the end, I simply turn off the light. I am there in bed with him--I have never left him alone or done anything like CIO. But the light is off, and it's sleeping time, and that's it. There was a period of time around 18-24 months when we had some tough nights for a while. He wanted to get out of bed, leave the room, go run around. Well my DH also works from home at night so DS running around at that time--while I'm needing to sleep and DH was needing to work--just could not be accommodated. I put a door knob guard on the inside of our bedroom door so DS could not leave the room. Did this make DS mad? Yes. Was there crying and screaming? Yes, some. But I guess I have to say my own boundary is that I am not going to just suck it up and stay up with a child when I am dead on my feet; and I am not going to let a toddler run all over the house unsupervised. DS has learned that when I close the bedroom door, turn off the light, and get into bed with him, the ONLY thing that is going to happen at that point is that we are going to go to sleep.


----------



## finn'smama (Jan 11, 2006)

nak

I found that different things work at different times. Right now an early bedtime is what works for ds. If we wait too long to get him to bed, he has a very restless sleep, so 7 or 7:30pm seems to be the ideal right now. A couple of months ago he was going to bed at 9 or 10pm. I've always just tried to follow his lead and we've always had the same routine in the evening (dinner, bath, jammies, play, nurse to sleep). He also naps according to some schedule he has devised that seems to work. He is 19 months and has a short (45 min.) nap in the a.m. and sometimes another short one at around 3pm. I let him nap when he's tired...
His biggest tired sign is crankiness! lol! He gets kinda wired and nothing really makes him happy...that's when it's time to nurse and sleep for us.
Every babe is different and I think you do just have to experiment to see what works best.
Good luck!

eta I also do what wednesday said, if it gets too late and dp and I are tired, we all just go to bed together. We get into bed, turn off the light and the three of us just fall asleep together.


----------



## JuniperMama (Sep 1, 2004)

I haven't read all the posts but wanted to share our experience.

We started a "nighttime routine" at about 6 months just to get in the habit of it: bath, books, nursing, sleep. We have continued this until this day.

DS dropped his 2nd nap right at 12 mos. These days he naps 2-3 hours in the afternoon. (he used to go down at noon but has now moved to between 1 and 2) and then goes down to bed between 8 and 8:30. He is a flexible kid so its not a huge deal if we miss bedtime by a little bit. HOWEVER, if we put him to bed later we are guaranteed that he'll wake up EARLIER than normal the next morning and that we're likely to have struggles getting him to sleep. If we do things at his normal times then he goes right down without a peep and will sleep about 8-8(ish).

It is weird but, for us, the old adage is true: the more they sleep the more they sleep. (If he gets a good nap he sleeps better at night. If he gets a lousy nap or goes to bed late at night then he is likely to have a harder time and wake earlier.)

Just our experience for whatever its worth...


----------



## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

Ok, now I feel the need to say something.
My 4 YEAR OLD sleeps in OUR room, and yes, he sometimes do get to stay up and watch a movie, and YES I do fall asleep when he does if I am tired, because I am in the same room as him.
And yes my 4 year old does sleep when he is tired, and I sleep when I am tired, if that means I am falling asleep while he watches a movie next to me, or reading, if that is neglectful, then excuse me for being human. I trust my son, I know MY SON, I know that I can leave him with a movie, or a book in MY room, in our bed, while I try to get some sleep. He sleeps when he is tired. And so do I.


----------



## nurturinglovely (Sep 1, 2005)

Again,

The issue is mainly meant for the VERY young... the 'too young to do it on their own' young.

It would be really nice if people could stop using this forum as a battlefield. The idea is to support and encourage eachother.

So, getting back on track......... I have, over the past few nights, played around a little with bedtime and naps....

And, regardless of what i do, ds2 (17 mo.) STILL wakes at ten til seven, and STILL nurses every hour and a half.... i am running out of steam..

but he looks so beautiful nursing... and those cute sounds.......

ohhhhh....... zzzzzzzz..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...zzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## nurturinglovely (Sep 1, 2005)

Again,

The issue is mainly meant for the VERY young... the 'too young to do it on their own' young.

It would be really nice if people could stop using this forum as a battlefield. The idea is to support and encourage eachother.

So, getting back on track......... I have, over the past few nights, played around a little with bedtime and naps....

And, regardless of what i do, ds2 (17 mo.) STILL wakes at ten til seven, and STILL nurses every hour and a half.... i am running out of steam..

but he looks so beautiful nursing... and those cute sounds.......

ohhhhh....... zzzzzzzz..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...zzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## nurturinglovely (Sep 1, 2005)

Again,

The issue is mainly meant for the VERY young... the 'too young to do it on their own' young.

It would be really nice if people could stop using this forum as a battlefield. The idea is to support and encourage eachother.

So, getting back on track......... I have, over the past few nights, played around a little with bedtime and naps....

And, regardless of what i do, ds2 (17 mo.) STILL wakes at ten til seven, and STILL nurses every hour and a half.... i am running out of steam..

but he looks so beautiful nursing... and those cute sounds.......

ohhhhh....... zzzzzzzz..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...zzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## nurturinglovely (Sep 1, 2005)

Again,

The issue is mainly meant for the VERY young... the 'too young to do it on their own' young.

It would be really nice if people could stop using this forum as a battlefield. The idea is to support and encourage eachother.

So, getting back on track......... I have, over the past few nights, played around a little with bedtime and naps....

And, regardless of what i do, ds2 (17 mo.) STILL wakes at ten til seven, and STILL nurses every hour and a half.... i am running out of steam..

but he looks so beautiful nursing... and those cute sounds.......

ohhhhh....... zzzzzzzz..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...zzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wednesday* 
treemom, I don't have 2 kids, which I know makes it more complicated. But...I have never ever stayed up with DS beyond my own point of comfort, say later than 10 pm. We have a bedtime routine that starts no later than 9, and at the end, I simply turn off the light. I am there in bed with him--I have never left him alone or done anything like CIO. But the light is off, and it's sleeping time, and that's it. There was a period of time around 18-24 months when we had some tough nights for a while. He wanted to get out of bed, leave the room, go run around. Well my DH also works from home at night so DS running around at that time--while I'm needing to sleep and DH was needing to work--just could not be accommodated. I put a door knob guard on the inside of our bedroom door so DS could not leave the room. Did this make DS mad? Yes. Was there crying and screaming? Yes, some. But I guess I have to say my own boundary is that I am not going to just suck it up and stay up with a child when I am dead on my feet; and I am not going to let a toddler run all over the house unsupervised. DS has learned that when I close the bedroom door, turn off the light, and get into bed with him, the ONLY thing that is going to happen at that point is that we are going to go to sleep.

I have tried just going into the bedroom, turning off the light, locking the door (otherwise DS will just get up and leave, etc. . .Problem is, like you said, I have two children I co-sleep with. DS is very persistent and will scream and cry for a pretty long time so either I feel incredibly guilty for letting him scream and cry (even when I am there with him) or I am afraid he will wake up DD. Thing is, when DD was young I could do what you are saying, I could just take her in the bedroom, turn off the light, and she would fall right to sleep. DS is much more difficult at bedtime!

Also, kmisje: I think the issue of neglect only has come up when talking about the very young. . .like an 8 month old or a 15 month old. . .which most of us can agree shouldn't be left for very long alone--especially while we go into another room to go to bed. Your child is 4 years old. My DD is 5. I have left her watching TV while I have taken a nap. . .especially now while I am pg however I personally would not feel comfortable doing this with my 2 year old son. It also sounds to me like you take your child into the bedroom with you and you have a TV in there. . .so you are still in the room?!!? Honestly, I don't see how anyone could assume this is neglectful.


----------



## OGirlieMama (Aug 6, 2006)

My girls are not big nappers - I'm lucky if they nap 45 minutes 2x/day. So by around 7pm they are pooped and start getting extremely cranky if we don't start going to bed. Some days, if they nap well, I can push it to 7:45 with little trouble. But if I try and keep them up until their Daddy gets home around 8:15, it's almost always a miserable screamfest that isn't worth it.


----------



## rachelmarie (Mar 21, 2005)

I skimmed the replies and just wanted to add our experience.

Ds will be 2 in January. For about the last year he has taken one afternoon nap that lasts 2 to 3 hours. He goes to bed when we do - so around 10 or 10:30. He sleeps until 9 or 10 in the morning.

This absolutely works for us. Dh gets home between 6 and 7 in the evening, so if ds went to bed at 7 or 8, they would not see each other very much. Also, ds getting up later in the morning, gives me time to wake up and have time to myself before our day starts.

To the pp, you should do what works for your family and not change things just because that is what you read in a book. It seems like your original bedtimes seemed to be working okay for you.

Also, I don't think it is unusual for a 17 month old to still be waking to nurse every couple of hours. Ds is 22 months and he wakes that often some nights. I do understand how tiring it can be, though.


----------



## zannster (Aug 12, 2004)

I haven't read every post in the thread...







:

I read a few books that suggested early bedtime, but that never worked for us. On the few occasions when DS went to sleep earlier (usually because he skipped his nap and was exhausted), he woke up early. Or he woke up in the middle of the night and it was a pain to get him back to sleep. He and I go to sleep between 9:00-10:00 (usually closer to 9), and that has always worked best.

I used to ask for suggestions on how to get DS to sleep longer between nursings. His pattern was usually one block of maybe 3 hours and then every 1-2 hours, with cluster nursing as it got close to morning. I never got any suggestions that I could use. I don't think it's something that everyone can control. I deliberated nightweaning and never did. Eventually, he started having a few nights here and there when he slept through to 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning. That made a huge difference. It still doesn't happen all that often, but I seem to better able to tolerate the whole situation now.


----------



## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

And did you do that when he was 15 months old? Or 8 months old?


----------



## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treemom2* 
It also sounds to me like you take your child into the bedroom with you and you have a TV in there. . .so you are still in the room?!!? Honestly, I don't see how anyone could assume this is neglectful.

That is what I do every night, he sleeps with us, and if he isn't tired yet, sometimes a movie soothes him (i know that to some tv is bad, but he doesn't watch it religeously during the day) so when he watches tv, I am always still in there with him.

I wouldn't leave him alone in the livingroom while I go to bed, if we are alone, too many things go through my mind that could go wrong, he is too precious to me.


----------



## livismama (Sep 15, 2006)

My dd has never, since the day she was born, been an easy sleeper and she has always needed at great deal of help from us to go to sleep and to sleep well. For months, I tried to let her develop her own routine or just to follow her lead, but she was seemed miserable - only napping for 20 min at a time, and waking up frustrated and crying, being generally cranky when awake. It was a hard time for us until I started taking a more active role in helping her develop a routine. I found that she was sleeping so poorly because by the time she would fall alseep she was overtired, so it became my job to put her to sleep before she gets into such a state instead of waiting for her to go to sleep herself. Despite what she would like to do, she can really only take being awake for about 2 - 2 1/2 hours at a time before she needs to recharge. So our routine goes something like - wake up at 7ish, nap 1 at 9a, nap 2 between 12 - 1, nap 3 between 3-4, bedtime by 7. I have tried to put her to bed later to see if she would sleep in later but to no avail. She also wakes to nurse diring the night quite frequently.

I'm not sure if this helps and I by no means thing that a routine is right for every family, but I know that my dd has really responded well and she seems happiest (read: sleeps best) when we stick to some recognizable pattern during the day.


----------

