# Maybe morbid - the baby's ashes, other thoughts



## L J (Apr 6, 2006)

We picked up Jack's ashes at the funeral home yesterday. They are in a little black box. Its shaped like a shoe box, but it has what appear to be a hinged opening on the small end.

I don't know what to do with them. DH put them on top of our dresser. I am okay with the location, but I don't like the box. I want to buy a proper urn, but its so hard to even think about shopping for one. Emotionally, its just hard to look for something like that.

But, then I have the problem of not knowing what I am going to see when I open that black box. I have never seen human cremains before. Are they just going to be loose in there?

If I buy something to pour them into, do I just pour them in? What about the residue that is left inside the black box? And THEN what do I do with the black box? I can't really throw it away. Its not something that I could ever repurpose, either.

This is just almost too much. I have no idea what to do, or what to expect.

I laid in bed for hours last night, I couldn't sleep because these thoughts just kept running through my head. And I keep worrying that my 3.5 year old is going to die in his sleep. And I can't get comfortable, because laying on my side feels strange because there is no belly in the way, and laying on my stomach makes the phantom kicks so much worse. I am so tired. I really just want to sleep. My mind just won't allow it, though.

The bereavement counselor at the hospital, I am pretty sure is who did this, sent the blanket that he was wrapped in and the hat that he wore to me, through the funeral home. I am SO greatful that she did that. When we were at the hospital, we declined the bereavement box, and now I wish we hadn't.

I am so glad that I have these things. But, the blanket has blood on it, and DH wants to wash it. He says if we don't wash it the fibers will break down and it will deteriorate. I just can't think about washing it. The hat. It has two of his long, black curly hairs inside it. I keep looking at them, smelling it, even though it doesn't smell like him, I keep hoping. I am so scared that those hairs are going to get lost. I want to keep them.

I guess I need to go buy a box to put the few things I have as mementos of my baby in.


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## Guthu (Jun 14, 2010)

If you really wanted to know....

human ashes....well, they are chalky...best way I can say it.
Rough and white..like bone...my g. grandma's also had chunks mixed in with the finer bits as well, free floating as well, and heavy.

I wish you luck and hope you feel better.

















you could buy you baby a little jar with a sturdy lid and paint it? Or paint the box even, if you do not want to go urn shopping.

My grandma for her mom just got a fancy jar that had flowers on it that had a really good lid.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Call around to other funeral homes and see what they have in tiny urns. They will make the transfer for you if you are not feeling up to it. My son's urn sits on top of the highboy in my bedroom with all our family baby cups. My family will scatter his ashes with mine someday.


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## FaithfulOne (Apr 12, 2009)

There are no words...I am SO sorry you are going through this.

I understand not wanting to get rid-of-anything. I might buy a rubbermaid etc and store every peice of anything I had. Then, depending on the box, like pp suggested, paint it or decorate it somehow. If you change the box I would keep the box in the said container and transfer the ashes to the new container. You can also put the hairs you have into a small envelope and store them in the container. This way everything is safe in one place and you can re-visit and surround yourself with your lo whenever you need too.
As for the blanket...I know it would be really hard, but maybe you can just dab a peroxide solution on just the blood?


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## Cheshire (Dec 14, 2004)

Whenever you are ready to find the right urn then I'm sure the funeral home would do the transfer for you. Also, take your time with all of this - there is no rush.

It's been two years since my son died and I still have the clothes he wore for his photos (after he had died) in the bag the hospital gave us (a nice paper gift bag). The clothing also has his blood on them. I will never wash them. I don't care if the fibers break down but the clothing will not be washed. Eventually I will put them somewhere special. I'm sure I'll probably be the only one that will ever pull them out and look at them again. I have a memory box that isn't big enough for everything and I'll have to find something else but for now the clothes are still in that little craft bag.

Over time you can decide what to do with the blanket but for now just leave it as it is. When you move out of the fog of shock and into the journey of living again and figuring out how to do it without your son you will be able to make more sound decisions. We didn't make any choices for a while. We gave away all of our baby bucket car seats and the first couple of sets of convertible seats from our first son's baby days. I think that was the most rash decision we made and sometimes I wish we hadn't but looking back I just couldn't stand to have them in the house - I felt so robbed and they were a really big reminder of that loss.

I'm so sorry Jack died. As I know you've been told before be gentle with yourself and remind your family to be gentle with each other.

As for worrying (and in my case sometimes obsessing) over losing other loved ones - very normal. For me, I had so many waking nightmares. I couldn't sleep and my mind would run away with horrible thoughts or run the events that led to my son's death over and over again in my head. I couldn't shut it off. I found a counselor and talking it out helped. Now, two years later, I hardly have the nightmarish thoughts and I'm learning to not worry as much for my family. But, I also know that my thoughts will always be viewed through a different type of glass, not rose-colored for sure, but they will always be tinged with my experiences. I'm learning to be okay with it.

Hugs to you, momma.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

I'm sorry.

For the box you don't like, if it were me, I would bury it (after transferring the ashes). Return it to the earth. That would be the way that I could feel like I respected the box without having to keep it.


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## Paeta16 (Jul 24, 2007)

I'm SO very sorry for your loss! When we picked up Brendan's remains, they were in a red plastic box. However, we chose not to get a special urn b/c we buried him with my Mom. Most funeral homes have a selection of urns to choose from from very ornate to very simple.

I have a memory box for all of Brendan's things. It was actually a baby box that came with an album and stuff but I gave the album away. In the window on the front of the box, I have his footprints. Inside the box, I put his blanket, death certificate and all of they sympathy cards we received from friends and family.

I am sorry you have to go through this. I did not sleep well at all for a solid month and a half after losing Brendan. I would literally lay awake all night. I started watching a T.V. series on DVD in bed b/c I needed something mindless to do. I would be wide awake worrying and crying if I wasn't distracted...and even sometimes when I was distracted. Now I am still watching that series but I regularly fall asleep while watching episodes at normal hours now...I have to say that I have never been so happy to start sleeping again! It still hits me (it has been over 2 months now) and of course I have my moments but at least I am functioning better these days. It sounds horrible and trite, but it really does get a little easier with time


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## Mrs.Music (Jun 15, 2010)

I'm so sorry for your loss. A friend of mine lost her son and she said there were a lot of beautiful little urns to choose from at the funeral home. She chose a very nice heart shaped one that lays in a velvet lined black box and seals shut tightly at the top so it doesn't spill. She also bought a little necklace there to carry some of his ashes with her. I know a lot of people also get a memorial tattoo and use a little of the ash in the ink. Just some ideas. I hope that helps a little.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Oh, the hairs...

What about finding a locket you like.. putting some acid free white paper behind the hairs and then putting the glass/plastic back over them? So the hairs will show on the white paper. This way you could wear a little piece of him and it would be discreet but something to hold onto.

I'm not sure about the blood. You have to decide for yourself if the blood there helps or hurts you.

I have a keepsake box that is a cedar toy box. My son's little clothes and such look new- ish even 18 years later.


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## talldarkeyes (May 30, 2009)

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I also imagined that my dd would die right after I had my miscarriage. I still check on her multiple times when she is sleeping.

I think a cedar box would be lovely. If I had ashes, I would probably bury them somewhere close by. We buried our baby's remains with a tree we planted and that felt right for us. I think it takes time to figure out what to do with the remains of your child and that is ok. Do what feels right for you and your dh and allow yourself all the time you need.


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## expatmommy (Nov 7, 2006)

I have a hat that my son wore. It isn't clean & I'll never bring myself to do it. I like to be able to touch something that touched him. He seems so far away some days & it is one of the only tangible things I have.

We buried our son, in our family tradition. It has great meaning to me for my son to be buried in the same place as his infant cousin, his grandparents & his great grandparents. I like to have a place to go where I feel safe crying and remembering. I'm the kind of person who needs something tangible.

After loosing our son, I realized just how bad things could be. I've never been a fearful person at all, but now sometimes my mind just goes to the place of fear for my other kids. It is hard.


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## baileyandmikey (Jan 4, 2005)

My friend has a beautiful urn shaped like a baby block with an angel on it, its very tiny, and the Funeral home did the transfer after she purchased it. She keeps it in her home, as she is not fully settled (hasn't purchased a home) and doesn't want the baby's ashes buried yet.


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## Mackenzie (Sep 26, 2004)

PP had some lovely suggestions for his ashes. As for the blanket with blood, I think that *if* it were to deteriorate, it would be a long time. The night gown that I had on when ds2 was born, and immediately placed on it on my tummy has not deteriorated at all from the blood...He is now 6.5 yrs


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## jess_paez (Jul 5, 2008)

i'm so so so sorry mama. i am missing my baby girl tonight. born at 22 weeks in 2008, so i wanted to log in to the pregnancy loss forum to offer some support. i haven't read the other replies yet, but please don't wash that blanket. if you're anything like me, you will find it comforting in the future. just the fact that her dress she wore is untouched means so much to me. when we brought home joslyn's ashes, it was in a small box. i wanted to pick them up alone. i think i waited for my dh to come home and we opened it. it was a small amount of ashes. i want to say like a small handful of sand. i put the whole bag in a seashell urn that my mother bought for me. it reminded us of south carolina where she was conceived. we really loved the ocean there. i can't explain it. i gave it time, but i don't regret putting her ashes in there by myself. i know it is sad and you can't fathom why you are doing it, but i did it in her honor and 2 years later i am happy that i was able to find the strength to do it. again, i am so so deeply sorry for your loss.














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## jess_paez (Jul 5, 2008)

because of your post mama, i opened up joslyn's memory box tonight. had a good cry, but it an unusual way it is healing to me. i noticed the blood has not deteriorated at all. it is healing to me. it shows me proof that she was here. that may sound odd, but i took comfort seeing it. huge hugs to you mama! I'm thinking of you, Jack and the rest of your family tonight.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I opened my memory box too LJ (from March 2004) and the spots of blood on her blanket have not deteriorated - they are really small though. I don't know if that helps.

I do not think it is morbid to be thinking and talking about these things at all. That feeling of empty arms makes it really natural. I too would encourage you and your DH to take some time with each decision.

I didn't sleep either, and I'm having the same trouble now that I'm having problems with a third pregnancy - it takes me back to that place.

My doctor prescribed Ativan but I never used it - having it in the house was comforting though. A bereavement group helped a bit. Time helped the most. I also got fears that everyone was going to die - driving freaked me out for a long time, even though driving had nothing to do with my daughter's death whatsoever. Many hugs to you.

One thing we have found comforting is that people were really generous and created some interesting physical memorials for our daughter - she has a tree in Israel, a star named after her (I realize this may be a scam but we still like the chart), and a kilometre of the Trans-Canada trail with a little plaque in a pavillion not too far from our house. If you are finding the lack of physical memories hard you might want to talk with your husband and find something similar in your area that can be Jack's.


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

I'm so so sorry about your presious baby Jack. RIP beautiful angel Jack.

As for ashes... My husband and I lost our dear friend to a rock climbing accident in June. So we have been talking a lot about death lately. I told dh that if I die I want to be cremated and that I would never want my ashes to remain in urn at home. I told him that I want my ashes to be spread into a tropical warm ocean not too far from a beautiful tropical beach. I strongly feel that we need to be reconnected with where we came from: soil, nature, water, etc., we once again need to become a part of the cycle of life. He agreed that he felt the same, he too did not want his ashes to be kept at home.


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## ariahsmum (Jun 15, 2004)

Hi Laura,

I came here tonight as I have been missing my son and feeling so deeply sad. Trace Oak died nearly 4 years ago next month at term from a catastrophic rupture after a planned UC.

I am saddened to find you here now, grieving the loss of your dreams and hopes, your precious wee one, Jack. It brings it all right back for me, reading your words- those first few days, weeks, months. It was exhausting work, the grieving.

In regard to the ashes. We had our son cremated as well, despite the fact that I truly wanted him buried. I am sorry to say that I still have the ashes in a special box of his (a friend made an oak casket for Trace and a second one exactly the same for all my "keepsakes") due to the fact that I just can;t get comfortable doing anything with them.

When he was first gone, I made my husband keep the ashes hidden outside in the barn. I didn't want them anywhere near me. After a while, he brought them in. I think I got curious like you are at one point and looked- and yes, they were loose, just in a clear bag. It was not what I expected; there were large pieces of what I assume was his skull. (gulp- I have to pause and tear up just writing that). I quickly put everything back under cover as I couldn't bring myself to look harder thru them. I was enraged thinking that they were in the house and this time my friend brought a special box to put them in and we buried them in the box outside far away from the house until I was ready to retrieve them. I don't know what made me ready, but they are inside now along with my dear friend Amy's ashes. (she died 6 months after Trace).

I found a potter friend who makes beautiful handcarved small pots with lids (google Miranda Thomas pottery). You can find one like that and glue the lid on or not. Honestly, I bought one with oak leaves and then gave it to my mom as I couldn't deal with the craziness of having a piece of pottery for "him". She has it on her mantle and just last week I was admiring it, thinking maybe I was ready now to put his ashes in it. She got it down and I just lost it. I couldn't believe how rediculous it was to be thinking a pot is beautiful for my son's ashes to go in. It was just crazy that instead of sitting him in my lap and reading to him or breastfeeding, I was hemming and hawing over what jar to put his skull bones in. Blech.

I had a blanket and undershirt and hat that they put on Trace in the hospital and sent me home with (the nurse changed Trace into a little tiny tshirt my daughter had made for him while I was pregnant and the kissluvs 0 I had ready for him and that is what he wore in his wee small oak box as he was fed to the incinerator). Anyway, the original clothes were all stained with blood and belly button goo, and I never washed them. In fact, I put them in a clean new ziplock bag and they still smell like him 4 years later. I'm glad I have them even if it is painful beyond words to look at them and hold them to my cheek instead of my beloved son.

Sleeping- it was years without normal sleep. Sometimes I still can't get it. And it was a year before I went out and around in town and to events.

I was proud that I grieved fully. It sucked, but I believed in natural labor and for many of the same reasons, I believed in natural grief process. Stay home, don't go out, don't work, just do the job of grieving. That was all I personally could handle. And I was a mess (an unmedicated mess, thank you!) and really couldn't handle the everyday stuff like seeing pregnant moms all around and hearing small talk about this and that. I treated each wave of grief like a contraction. I let it wash over me, and I let it do its work while remembering that each one I did got me one step closer. Not closer to a baby, but closer to the pain letting up. It is like reverse labor. Intense at first, then waves of grief that are less steep and further apart. Time truly does shift it.

I am so sad for you, and my heart goes out to you. Jack will be loved always by you... I hope you continue to get some answers on the details of his physical size and death. I also hope you take the time to stop and just let the pain do its work. It sucks mama, but the way out is thru. Just like labor.

Blessings to you, I am lighting a candle for your little man.


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## ariahsmum (Jun 15, 2004)

oops.


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## L J (Apr 6, 2006)

Everyone - thank you for the understand and the kind suggestions, and yes, for helping me to understand what I will see when I open that box. The understanding and the caring in this forum floors me; I am so thankful to have a safe haven here.

Jaya - your post really touched me today. Its been three weeks today since Jack was born, and apparently, among my family, my time is up. I had a really bad, really overwhelming day yesterday, and my parents became so frustrated with me. I just told them I needed to just be home and cry, but they couldn't accept it and badgered me all day to get up and get out of the house and go do something. Then, they decided it must not be healthy for my 3.5 year old to me around his mama when she is so sad, so they insisted on getting him and taking them to their house.

My DH got home from work really late, around 10pm, and he could tell by looking at me that I had a bad day. I just started crying when he came in, I was just so relieved he was home, and I thought that he would be able to offer me some comfort. I just want him to hug me and tell me he loves me and that he misses Jack, too. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one that misses him, since my parents spend so much time obsessing about ME and my 3 year old, they never mention Jack. I know DH misses him...

So, he comes home, and proceeds to lecture me for nearly an hour about how I have to MOVE I have to do something to start getting past this. I have to "get back to normal". I tried to tell him that I don't have a normal anymore, I have to redefine that. He said, "Just start doing all the things you used to."

He gets mad at me for spending time online with other women who have experienced the death of their child. He says I need to stop looking for answers and find something else to do. He says that no ones experiences are the same, and used some analogy about all the people who have been in car wrecks not having had the same kind of wreck. Well, yeah, WE all know that we don't know EXACTLY what anyone else is going through, or feeling, but I think we have a pretty good idea of the depth of the feelings that come along with our baby dying.

I just couldn't believe those words were coming out of his mouth. I really expected him to understand. When I told him, because I did, in plain English, that I needed him to hug me and tell me he misses him too and tell me he loves me, he said:

"I have to get up every day and go to work, to work 12 hours to keep our bills paid. I don't have time for that. I'm sorry I can't <sarcastic tone> give you the comfort you need."

But WHY can't he? I'm not asking for much? Five minutes a day, and that's just on my bad days. I assume my bad days will get less frequent with time.

I got an e-mail from one of the midwives that I will be seeing at the end of this month, and that e-mail came at the end of the day, right before DH got home, and it was short but filled with understanding and caring, and HOPE. I felt so much hope after reading what she wrote, which included a personal story of loss, and two healthy babies and perfect pregnancies afterward (same placental insufficiency that I had). I shared that with DH, to tell him that there are moments when I feel hope, and when I looking forward to the future. They are few and far between right now, but I am always relieved when I have one.

He became jealous. He said he doesn't understand why a midwife that I don't even know can tell me something and it make me feel better, but I refuse to listen when he talks. He just doesn't get, because he doesn't want to hear it, just how complex what I am feeling is. Not only am I mourning the death of my son, I am mourning the loss of my innocence where pregnancy and birth are concerned. It has been weighing on me heavily that I will be considered "high risk" with my next pregnancy, and that just feels like the ultimate defeat. The hear a really traditional, HIGHLY respected midwife tell me that I CAN go on to have another normal, healthy pregnancy and natural birth means the world to me. Its a weight lifted.

Jaya - I have been approaching this grief much as you did. I know, intellectually, that I have to go through it before I can begin to accept and heal. But no one around me seems to be willing to "allow" it. I don't know how to deal with these people, who are such a huge part of my life. I know they are just pushing me because they love me and they want to see me "okay" again. WHY can't they understand that its going to be a long time before I can be?

I don't know what to do with myself today. DH is home, today is his day off, and he just got up and tried to get me to come back to bed, iykwim. I just sat stoically; I can't imagine having sex with someone who isn't willing to offer me any comfort when I am so sad. When he did come to bed last night, hours after I did, he stayed far on his own side of the bed. I don't sleep deeply anymore, and I just kept laying there, hoping he would reach out to me. But, he didn't. I guess he just can't. I never knew being denied a hug could hurt so much. I never imagined him denying me something so simple.


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## ariahsmum (Jun 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *L J* 
Its been three weeks today since Jack was born, and apparently, among my family, my time is up. I had a really bad, really overwhelming day yesterday, and my parents became so frustrated with me. I just told them I needed to just be home and cry, but they couldn't accept it and badgered me all day to get up and get out of the house and go do something.

Oooooo that really puts my knickers in a knot! I am hearing that you know what you need, even though it doesn't feel good (to go home and cry) and you are likely really wanting support and acceptance, is that right? After all, you are the mother who just lost your precious... one would expect support of whatever you need at this time. I'm guessing your folks have such a tremendous desire to "know" that you are okay. If you are at home crying, they know you are in pain. If you are up and out and "doing something" you seem okay to them. Natural human tendency in this culture to want someone we love to "Seem fine". But shit- just so against what you really need. Tell them you appreciate their care, but you will be going home.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *L J* 
Then, they decided it must not be healthy for my 3.5 year old to me around his mama when she is so sad, so they insisted on getting him and taking them to their house.

Oh, Laura, I feel so sad hearing this. Your child needs to see this process from time to time- the truth of it. What child wouldn't be confused from being kept from the tears and pain of his mother after the loss of a sibling? What if your child never saw you upset? What could he believe about you? What would he learn about loss? He's know you were hiding... and he'd learn to hide in response to grief. To pretend and go on. And likely he has all sorts of emotions in himself right now- they don't know how to process it like we do. But seeing you process and emote it can be helpful for them in their own process. You kinda give a name and meaning to what they are feeling inside.

My 4 year old (when Trace died) saw a lot. She was taken away from time to time so that she could get a healthy balance, and some fun and play and attention that I couldn't give her. She did need to be able to be free, and laugh and have joy and it was hard to do here all the time. But also, people came here and played with her. She needed to be home, close to her base, her mama. She saw tears and rage and unbelievable expression of pain and depression. And it was also explained to her why she was seeing that. I reminded her always of my love for her, of the reason I was crying... and we snuggled... we helped each other. It was very intimate, it was very difficult... I grieved at times what I thought was the loss of her innocence, I raged at my own pain as I was angry that it was meaning I was a crap mother to my daughter. Gosh, there were layers and layers of pain. And when I wasn't grieving the loss of Trace for myself, I would grieve it for her. I so wanted her to have a brother, a sibling. We literally lost a year of our lives in the way that we had known it. No homeschooling, little fun.

And I realized years later that it was such a valuable process for her. So she didn't learn a lot of arithmetic or writing. But she sat and drew and drew and drew (the only time she has ever drawn in her life) and she learned what is normal when a child dies, and she learned that grief moves, it is expressed, it is held in community and safety and it takes time. She understands death in the way that any of us ever can... she appreciates life, and mostly she knows why I am who I am now, and knows that I too understand her deeply. We never broke connection, we never hid anything. We went thru.

But you know, the sentiment that your child needs to be taken away from you implies that you are not fit to be with him. And that is very scary to a grieving mom, it sends her a powerful message about her not being accepted the way she is, with all her pain and loss. It adds another layer to the grief if mom believes she not only lost her dear child, but that she also is not fit to be with her living child. Your parents are wrong, and you likely need your son near you at times thru this. There is a book parenting thru grief. You might get ready to take a look at it sometime. It was helpful to me. Parenting thru acute pain and sudden despair is not easy. But your boy will be fine. And needs you now more than ever, I'm guessing.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *L J* 
My DH got home from work really late, around 10pm, and he could tell by looking at me that I had a bad day. I just started crying when he came in, I was just so relieved he was home, and I thought that he would be able to offer me some comfort. I just want him to hug me and tell me he loves me and that he misses Jack, too. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one that misses him, since my parents spend so much time obsessing about ME and my 3 year old, they never mention Jack. I know DH misses him...

So, he comes home, and proceeds to lecture me for nearly an hour about how I have to MOVE I have to do something to start getting past this. I have to "get back to normal". I tried to tell him that I don't have a normal anymore, I have to redefine that. He said, "Just start doing all the things you used to."

Yup... another situation where others avoid their own pain by assuring themselves that you are "normal". If you look okay, they can be okay too. If you are raging and crying or lying in bed staring at the wall they have to face their own grief. Easier for them if you look fine. But this is so incredibly painful coming from your husband. A few weeks after Trace died, we tried the typical "we just need to get away trip". Turns out that the tremendous guilt and pain follows you, so save your money... but while there I was sad and removed. We were sitting at dinner out to eat and dh (who is wonderfully sensitive and patient) told me that I needed to "move on". I freaked out at him... told him I was moving on. I was living... I was still going. My "moving on" just looked like this now and he better get used to it. I had a new normal. But to this day, I cannot believe some of the things he said to me. One was that I was just "not attractive" to him anymore when I was like this. That was after I told him I was suicidal. Nice, eh?

What he was likely saying was that in addition to grieving his son, he is grieving the loss of his life as he knew it. He is grieving the loss of his wife as he knew her, his relationship as he knew it. But it is hard to hear that when you are in such acute pain and wanting empathy and understanding.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *L J* 
He gets mad at me for spending time online with other women who have experienced the death of their child.

I just couldn't believe those words were coming out of his mouth. I really expected him to understand. When I told him, because I did, in plain English, that I needed him to hug me and tell me he misses him too and tell me he loves me, he said:

"I have to get up every day and go to work, to work 12 hours to keep our bills paid. I don't have time for that. I'm sorry I can't <sarcastic tone> give you the comfort you need."

But WHY can't he? I'm not asking for much? Five minutes a day, and that's just on my bad days. I assume my bad days will get less frequent with time.

I got an e-mail from one of the midwives that I will be seeing at the end of this month, and that e-mail came at the end of the day, right before DH got home, and it was short but filled with understanding and caring, and HOPE. I felt so much hope after reading what she wrote, which included a personal story of loss, and two healthy babies and perfect pregnancies afterward (same placental insufficiency that I had). I shared that with DH, to tell him that there are moments when I feel hope, and when I looking forward to the future. They are few and far between right now, but I am always relieved when I have one.

He became jealous. He said he doesn't understand why a midwife that I don't even know can tell me something and it make me feel better, but I refuse to listen when he talks.

You are really longing for his comfort right now, you are longing for him to hold you and cry with you about the loss of your son, is that right? And when you are so wanting love and understanding you are feeling pain because that need isn't being met right now by him, is that right? If so, I so get it. I had to put down words for a while (DH was angry at the same things- being online, talking with online folks on the phone) and simply tell dh that I was hoping to be held for 5 minutes. "Would you be willing to hold me for 5 minutes? I just want to feel your strong arms around me for a bit." No explanation of why. or asking for understanding. I just asked for the holding. Maybe that might work with you? My guess is your dh wants desperately to know how to "fix" this. He wants to help you, but doesn't know how and that is crazy making to a guy. He is angry when you are online or jealous at the midwife giving you support because he is likely longing to be able to support you now, but doesn't feel the competence he would like with it.

It is sooooo difficult when two people are in acute pain state to give to each other, to support one another. THis is why marriages can be extremely painful after the loss of a child. Men and women grieve so differently... people told me that again and again and well, it didn't help except that at last I knew it wasn't just me.

Hang in there and use whatever soft gentle understanding ear you do have. They will be lifelines that will help you through. You are in the underworld of sorts. And yes, you are all alone, but there are those of us here in the light reminding you that you can and will find what you need in the dark and we will be here as you emerge. You are safe, this is normal. You will go thru. You are going thru.

And yes, of course you are grieving the implication on your next conceptions, gestations and births. I hear that. It is a loss indeed, so matter how hopeful you are. Your next pregnancy should you be so blessed will always be affected by this deep loss, and that is a loss in itself. But women do it every day. And you will too.

Love to you today,


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## ariahsmum (Jun 15, 2004)

Oh, and Laura... I thought you might like to listen to this:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/vividli...n-the-consciou

It is a radio segment by a friend who lost her baby at birth as well and speaks of her journey. I found it to be full of deep truths, and moving honesty. I thought of you immediately.


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## alexmoon (Mar 30, 2010)

Laura
I am so sorry for the loss of your precious Jack.
Our daughter was born still 6 months ago and it was devastating. Still I struggle to understand why.
I can remember feeling a few weeks after her death that me and my husband would end up divorcing if we did not try and understand each other. I also got the 'you need to get over this' speech, which I was deeply hurt by and equally bewildered by. Dh also felt that he did not have time for grief because of the pressures of supporting this family We ended up seeing a psychologist together to try and understand each other's pov. It helped. I think it helped to have a referee to make sure each was being heard and
acknowledged. It is true that we each grieve differently. I can remember the pysch saying
That in terms of gRief Mark was probably still in the hospital holding his dead baby.
That just rung so true for me and somehow made the world of sense.
Those first few months were just so hard to get through. It is a lot to cope with.
For us we did get through it though it was painful, unearthed lot's of fears and past sadnesses, created lot's of new and unexpected contradictions, uncomfortableness, truths.
I miss her so much. I can't help but look around me and see babies that would have been Charlie's age and just feel so much longing.
Sometimes I still feel like I am the only one who misses her even though I know that is probably not true. I guess though now she is such a part of me, she has become such a massive part of my life even though her little bdy was taken from me, that she is impossible to deny. She shapes me, as much as my son, my husband, my parents, and I have accepted that.
I hope that things work out for you Laura.
XX Alex


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## mamapajama (Feb 9, 2003)

Hi hon.

I haven't read through all the posts because your first post made me cry so hard. I am so sorry for your loss. I purchased a little urn from the funeral home. Its a beautiful locally made wooden box. I think it is meant for putting part of the ashes of an adult into. But for our daughter it fit her ashes perfectly. They are not loose in there. They are in a little ziploc bag and that is how they came to me. They are just smooth and grey.

I am sending you huge hugs and you are in my thoughts. The first days are so hard and dark, but it will get easier in time.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *L J* 
I had a really bad, really overwhelming day yesterday, and my parents became so frustrated with me. I just told them I needed to just be home and cry, but they couldn't accept it and badgered me all day to get up and get out of the house and go do something. Then, they decided it must not be healthy for my 3.5 year old to me around his mama when she is so sad, so they insisted on getting him and taking them to their house.

...

He gets mad at me for spending time online with other women who have experienced the death of their child. He says I need to stop looking for answers and find something else to do. He says that no ones experiences are the same, and used some analogy about all the people who have been in car wrecks not having had the same kind of wreck. Well, yeah, WE all know that we don't know EXACTLY what anyone else is going through, or feeling, but I think we have a pretty good idea of the depth of the feelings that come along with our baby dying.


I'm late to see this but I want to give you a big hug.

I read in a newsletter online from Bereaved Families Ontario that many people give us about 3-6 weeks and then "are done" with grief. It is such a common experience. People think that they are being helpful to encourage us to move _past_ it but really we each have to move _through_ it. And it takes way way longer. So I hope they find a way to support you a little better.

For your DH - that is a huge blow. My DH was pretty good about the small things but he did completely flip out after we lost Emily. 4 weeks after she died he took a new position inside his company that involved "some" travel. That travel ended up moving him almost 5 hours away for a year and a half. I couldn't believe it.

It's a long story but in the end - our relationship is stronger and deeper. You completely have a right to be hurt and to tell him so. Just remember you are not seeing his "best self" right now. I wouldn't make decisions about his character over the next few months (that doesn't mean he gets to treat you badly).

Take care of you.


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## chopstickgirl (Oct 5, 2004)

just stalking you a bit Laura







but I wanted to say that I thought so many mamas had wonderfully insightful things to say-especially about grieving around Henry. Mairi was 25 months when Catti died and she was part of it 100%. She held her sister, took pics, loved on her, and she grieved deeply and continues to even now, it's almost like as she cognitively develops, she has to "regrieve" and it sucks as a parent to feel helpless for her pain, even 3 years later.

That being said, it has given her a depth of character and a sensitivity and just amazingness that most children don't have. I wish she just had her sister her, but since she doesn't, this has not been in vain-she has learned what is normal, how to accept death, how to grieve it, incorporate loss into our lives-none of this "burying it and pretending it all goes away and is magically better" bs that our culture perpetuates.


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## chopstickgirl (Oct 5, 2004)

also, i wanted to share this link-I haven't gotten it yet, but I'm going to get a necklace for Mairi (I asked her and she really, really wants one) and myself. I love it. Handblown glass necklace with some of Catti's ashes incorporated.

http://www.etsy.com/listing/49139733...rder=&includes[0]=tags&includes[1]=title

Also, I freaked out about her cremains (see my email about leaving her at the funeral home for a year, then at my MIL's house hidden for another year, just last year after Eli was born could I finally acknowledge her ashes). I made K open the box and look at them, then take a pic to show me (yes, so silly, right?) and then I looked. And i felt sick to my stomach and like i was going to puke as I did.

Now she's in our closet. I want to bury her ashes with my mom. I want to make them into a necklace. I want to put them in a pretty urn.

Mostly i want to ignore them and the fact that my baby girl is all burned up in my closet. It sucks. But, at some point I'll be ready for the things I want to do-maybe burying some of her ashes, getting a pretty urn and making some into necklaces. Not yet though.


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## L J (Apr 6, 2006)

Stalk away.









Lately, Henry has been talking about Jack a lot. He does it with a gentleness, and a sadness, that I have never seen in him before. He's really a wild kid. All boy, mean, violent, doesn't listen. No amount of consistent gentle discipline over the years has made him realize that he has to listen to me. He's just never calm. I adore him, and we work though it on a minute by minute basis, but

I say all that to show that this really has changed him, and even though he is sad, I think its done something good to him, too, in a way. The past few weeks, when he picks out books for us to read, he tends to always grab the ones I bought about "having a new baby" and "being a big brother" and the classics like "Everywhere Babies" and "What's Inside" (a happy little lift the flap book that shows the stages of fetal development and ends with "and here's your baby!") He talks to me about how he really wishes our baby had "come out like that. And, you know mama, come home." I will always regret not letting him come to the hospital to meet his brother.

I'm glad that he's so little and so simple, still, comparatively speaking. Some days I feel like he is the only person in the world I can look at and tell I am sad and I miss his brother. His reply of "Me too" always makes me feel so much closer to him. I think we are the only ones that are ever going to openly miss Jack.

ETA: We were posting at the same time. Thank you so much for that link. They are beautiful. I don't know if I can ever bring myself to open that box, though. I fight the urge every day to put it in the closet. Its setting on top of the chest of drawers, still. Its the only thing up there. It bothers me, in a hard to describe way. Its not that I don't want my baby around, its that I don't want him to be dead at all, I guess.


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## chopstickgirl (Oct 5, 2004)

Laura, can you email me your addy? I want to send you/Henry something that really helped Mairi-do you have this book?

http://www.amazon.com/Were-Gonna-Hav...7410299&sr=8-1

A friend sent it to Mairi after Catti died and it's one of her fave books. She used to read it almost daily (Have me read it) and still reads it a few times a week.


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