# Intersexed breastfeeding?



## Hellga (Apr 16, 2008)

I'm just curious about this...I have a friend who is intersexed (condition formerly known as hermaphroditism) and has had some breast growth recently. This person was raised as a male and appears male on the outside (aside from the breasts) but identifies as a female. She has full working male parts, and a working uterus and ovaries, with a vagina that was sewn shut by a doctor when she was born (they did not notify her parents at all).

She and her fiance both want to breastfeed their babies when they have them. She does not plan to try to conceive, as her female organs may or may not be able to handle a pregnancy. Therefore, she'll need to induce lactation.

Two questions: is there any way to induce lactation besides nipple stimulation or prescription drugs, and how would you feel if you saw a "man" breastfeeding a child in public?


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## shanti1 (Jun 30, 2006)

Huh...not sure if there's a way to induce lactation outside of prescription drugs and nipple stimulation outside of giving birth. How would I feel if I saw a man bfing in public.....probably jealous that my dh couldn't do it. Now THAT would be convenient.


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## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

I would be surprised to see a man bfing, but would probably assume there was more than meets the eye (like the situation you describe, or transgender). But the people who freak out about seeing a mother bf would probably REALLY freak out about that!


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

How can her uterus and ovaries work with a sewn-shut vagina? My friend had a condition whereby the left side of her uterus, her left ovary and her left kidney didn't form properly in the womb and she ended up with a semi-functional but sealed off half-uterus on the left and a fully functional one on the right (she might not be able to carry full-term because of this but they don't really know until she's pregnant). Anyway they knew about the kidney at birth and took it out then, but they didn't realise about her uterus until she was 14, 2 years after her periods began, and the left side of her uterus ruptured without warning due to the trapped menstrual blood that had been gathering for 2 years. I don't get how this friend could live with her vagina sewn up, her periods would have killed her by now surely...?


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## azedazobollis (Feb 27, 2003)

Come over to the Induced Lactation Tribe! to learn about Inducing Lactation.

How would I feel about seeing a man nursing? Hmmm, I dont know. But I would hope that the birth mother would be able to have a healthy nursing relationship as a priority. You said he identifies as being a woman. I hope there is plenty of support there in that situation. As a woman, I feel somewhat territorial over my gifts- such as being able to nurse a babe- I can't deny your friend has been given those gifts naturally too- it's very sad that those dr's denied her of her natural functions at the time of her birth.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

I have seen transmen nursing their babies and I think its great. So I think that if your friend can nurse her baby hurrary!


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## MommyJoia (Oct 31, 2007)

Honestly, I think it would be pretty F-ing cool to see a 'man' nursing. Of course 'he' would have to be emotionally prepared for stares.


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## Hellga (Apr 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
How can her uterus and ovaries work with a sewn-shut vagina? My friend had a condition whereby the left side of her uterus, her left ovary and her left kidney didn't form properly in the womb and she ended up with a semi-functional but sealed off half-uterus on the left and a fully functional one on the right (she might not be able to carry full-term because of this but they don't really know until she's pregnant). Anyway they knew about the kidney at birth and took it out then, but they didn't realise about her uterus until she was 14, 2 years after her periods began, and the left side of her uterus ruptured without warning due to the trapped menstrual blood that had been gathering for 2 years. I don't get how this friend could live with her vagina sewn up, her periods would have killed her by now surely...?

The tissue at the end, where it was sewn shut, is somewhat permeable...blood does get through. Also, they figured out what was happening like 4 months after it started (male puberty happened at 15, female puberty didn't hit till 24, i guess because of androgen hormones or something). The doc they were working with was able to remove the blood that had built up, but her insurance won't pay for her to be fully opened back up down there. It's just a mass of scar tissue as far as I can tell









I really want to go back in time and do something mean and nasty to that doctor that did that, without informing the parents and without thinking of the consequences. She's had to stack birth control now for like 6 years to keep from bleeding, so she doesn't have to worry about endometriosis or uterine rupture. Grr!


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## Crunchie (Jan 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hellga* 
I really want to go back in time and do something mean and nasty to that doctor that did that, without informing the parents and without thinking of the consequences. She's had to stack birth control now for like 6 years to keep from bleeding, so she doesn't have to worry about endometriosis or uterine rupture. Grr!

Yeah. That. This is what I thought when I first read your post...how awful.







And I would so fight the insurance company to have that procedure reversed...obviously it would be for more than cosmetic reasons! It does have health complications. Wow.

Well, I don't have any helpful info on inducing lactation, but I couldn't help but post. I can't say I wouldn't do a double-take at someone who appeared to be male breastfeeding, but like others I would assume that there was more to the story (that the person was transgender or something) and I certainly wouldn't make it my business to be judgemental. Honestly, I'm just happy to see _anyone_ nursing in public!!







:

I wish your friend and her partner luck!!


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

So, she has ovaries? Not testes, right? If she menstruates i mean. Or does she have an overy and an ovoteste?


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## TheGirls (Jan 8, 2007)

My DP is female, but often "reads" as male to those who don't look too close. She has smallish breasts if you are paying attention, but otherwise looks and dresses like a man. She didn't BF our current babe, but wants to give birth to (and BF) the next one. So she'll be another male-looking person BFing in public, I'm sure. At least your friend won't be alone!

There's tons of information about inducing lactation, but I'll leave that to those who know more about it. It seems reasonably likely that she could at least get SOME milk, and she won't need to get a full supply since presumably the birthmother will have enough...


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

www.asklenore.info


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## Hellga (Apr 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
So, she has ovaries? Not testes, right? If she menstruates i mean. Or does she have an overy and an ovoteste?

Let's see...there's a diagram she put together a while back, but I can't seem to find it right now, so here goes:

She has two ovaries, one of which is fully functioning and the other is smaller and most likely not producing eggs. She has a uterus that seems to be in good working condition, is the right size and shape, etc. She also has a full functioning penis, and (afaik) two functioning external testes. The vaginal scar tissue is directly behind the scrotum, which is situated slightly further forward than it would normally be.

I wonder if this was one of those "twins that turned into one baby early on" situations? DH was one...he has a funky spine and extra nipples as a result, lol!


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## frog (Jun 1, 2005)

IME, it depends entirely on the individual--ISNA might have some good resources.


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

ISNA say she is a medical impossibility! *can't find the jaw dropping smilie*


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## MaryJaneLouise (Jul 26, 2005)

Even if she doesn't produce any or much milk, she can still nurse for the babe's comfort. That is a big







in my book







.


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## frog (Jun 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GoBecGo* 
ISNA say she is a medical impossibility! *can't find the jaw dropping smilie*

Why is that a jaw dropper? I suspect there's a LOT that's not known at this point--everything's been swept under the rug for a really long time, after all.


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## Beckula (Mar 17, 2007)

Why oh why can't people leave intersexed babies alone? Why do the medical community feel the need to arbitrarily assign gender? It is just so wrong.


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## Phoenix_Rising (Jun 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MaryJaneLouise* 
Even if she doesn't produce any or much milk, she can still nurse for the babe's comfort. That is a big







in my book







.









:


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## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Sorry for my ignorance, i would have thought ISNA, which seems a very researched place, would have heard of a condition where this was possible, if it was. My original curiosity was from the fact that i had always known (from reading medical books as a teen) that hermaphroditism (which in myth is a person who is both fully male and fully female) is not possible because we only get one set of gonads, which are either ovaries, testes or ovotestes (which contain both ovarian and testicular tissue). In modern medicine of course the term has been (quite rightly) abandoned as it is dismissive and useless since there are so many different reasons a person can be intersex.

Perhaps it does not amaze you that there can be someone with the physiology of this person, but it does me, she must be practically the only one like her on the PLANET - that's INCREDIBLE to me! Talk about special!

OP - it must be something along the lines of what you suggested - the twins. I do know one intersex person who had an ovoteste and the teste parts were once her brothers - she's a chimera. BUT she just had 1, and 1 normal ovary







They took the ovoteste out to avoid testicular cancer. Anyway, amazing, truly.

As for the breastfeeding thing...honestly in this world even WOMEN get looks when they feed. If *I* saw a man BFing i'd give him the same "bloody good for you!" look i give the women.


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## frog (Jun 1, 2005)

Yeah, see, I guess I doubt that she's the only one--it's much more likely that there are a fair number of folks like her who just don't know.

When my SIL delivered her son by emergency c-section, they removed her testes, which to that point she had no idea she had. I suspect that's somewhat common.


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## elisent (May 30, 2006)

Please forgive the question but I truly want to know:

Would this mean someone could get pregnant without a partner? If they had both parts functioning? I always assumed they would be structurally two genders but only one set would be fertile.


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## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elisent* 
Please forgive the question but I truly want to know:

Would this mean someone could get pregnant without a partner? If they had both parts functioning? I always assumed they would be structurally two genders but only one set would be fertile.

I was afraid to ask this but the thought of it being possible in theory is just amazing to me.

If I saw a "male" in public breastfeeding I would definitely assume there was more to the story. It's not my place to judge anyone. I might do a double take as it isn't something you see every day, but I would probably just think "well isn't that cool!" and be on my way.

Shame on the doctor who messed with your friend. How horrible


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## Hellga (Apr 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elisent* 
Please forgive the question but I truly want to know:

Would this mean someone could get pregnant without a partner? If they had both parts functioning? I always assumed they would be structurally two genders but only one set would be fertile.

I know that there are quite a few intersexed folk that have one working ovary and one working teste, and it probably would be possible for them to get pregnant without another person. What's really weird is that they wouldn't even just be making a clone of themselves! How crazy is that?


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## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hellga* 
She's had to stack birth control now for like 6 years to keep from bleeding, so she doesn't have to worry about endometriosis or uterine rupture. Grr!

I imagine she'd have a gard time making enough milk. BCP is known to lower milk supply so I imagine a 6x dose would make it virtually impossible to have a milk supply.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elisent* 
Please forgive the question but I truly want to know:

Would this mean someone could get pregnant without a partner? If they had both parts functioning? I always assumed they would be structurally two genders but only one set would be fertile.

I would guess that could result in the issues that come up for children born from incestuous relationships.


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## Contrariety (Jul 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Beckula* 
Why oh why can't people leave intersexed babies alone? Why do the medical community feel the need to arbitrarily assign gender? It is just so wrong.









: This!

I'm so intrigued by your friend's biology! It never ceases to amaze me what capabilities human genome has in store!


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

I would guess that if she is taking a lot of BC pills to avoid mentruation, it might be difficult to induce lactation. From what I understand, along with the herbs and nipple stimulation, most lactation induction protocols call for taking BCPs for a period of time to simulate pregnancy, then stopping them to simulate birth. If it's impossible for her to stop the BC hormones, it might be difficult to get a supply up. As it is, a lot of women who give birth and breastfeed on demand have trouble with supply while taking hormonal BC (even those deemed generally safe for lactation by the medical community). I wish her luck though - it can't hurt to try.


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