# How Do You Define "Mindless Consumerism?"



## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Another thread got me thinking about this issue. A parent commented that a theme-store she visited was selling a particular item for an extremely high price (an item you can get at other stores, such as Target, for a fraction of that price).

I said that if enough parents were unwilling to pay the high price, the seller would lower the price. Thus, there must be enough parents willing to pay. The opinion was expressed that people who decided to pay the high price were "mindless consumers."

I wonder if there are many people who honestly feel that way: that anyone who pays more than you would for some item, is a "mindless consumer?"

This reminds me of an incident that happened several years ago, when I was traveling in Europe with my brother. We were in a train or bus station when an American couple (we're American, too) came in, upset that they'd missed their train (or bus). They ended up paying an exorbitant amount to charter a plane, so they wouldn't have to be late meeting their friends.

My brother was disgusted that they'd do this. He felt they were giving Americans a "bad name" for not just "taking the consequences" of being absentminded, chatting outdoors, and losing track of the time. A European, he said, wouldn't have been so absentminded in the first place because Europeans don't have bundles of money to throw around.

I thought it was up to the American couple: if they could afford to pay the money, and preferred to do that rather than inconvenience themselves or their friends, then what's the big deal? My brother felt that even if they could afford it, it just made such a bad statement about Americans to be throwing all that money around like it was nothing.

I felt some pilot was sure going to benefit that they were throwing it around. Again, I just failed to see how the American couple was "wrong" to make that particular choice.

To take it a step further, I don't think I'm in a position to label someone else a "mindless consumer" for making purchasing choices that differ from the ones I would make.

Of course, I'm not talking about government officials throwing around the taxpayers' money. That goes way beyond "mindless consumerism," and is actually a crime. I'm simply talking about the choices people make with their own money. Period.

What do you think?


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## Jojo F. (Apr 7, 2007)

It really depens. I think of Paris Hilton as a mindless consumer(among other things). This is my own opinion, but someone who buys a hummer is a mindless consumer for many reasons.

As for the American couple, I'm not sure. They did not want to be late meeting with their friends, that's being considerate.


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## Trillian (Nov 21, 2006)

I would call paying more than you need to mindless consumerism (as opposed to "mindful consumerism", I suppose), but as you point out, that doesn't necessarily make it morally or ethically wrong. If you have money to throw around, it is your right to do so if you want to. I only feel it is wrong when it hurts someone else (parent spending money on things he or she doesn't need and then being unable to provide necessities for the family, for example).

Also, I am often willing to pay a premium for convenience, but I don't consider that to be mindless consumerism. My time is frequently worth more to me than extra money in the bank.


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## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

I prefer the term "conspicuous" (SP?) consumer for the overpaying type.









To me a mindless consumer is the person who goes shopping at the WalMart just for fun or because they don't have anything better to do (this is what my family did growing up - blech!)....doesn't have anything to do with price but whether or not it's recreational spending...

hth
peace,
robyn


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## RedWine (Sep 26, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trillian* 
I would call paying more than you need to mindless consumerism (as opposed to "mindful consumerism", I suppose), but as you point out, that doesn't necessarily make it morally or ethically wrong. If you have money to throw around, it is your right to do so if you want to. I only feel it is wrong when it hurts someone else (parent spending money on things he or she doesn't need and then being unable to provide necessities for the family, for example).

Also, I am often willing to pay a premium for convenience, but I don't consider that to be mindless consumerism. My time is frequently worth more to me than extra money in the bank.









:


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Like hippiemomma69, I think the term mindless consumerism means shopping for recreational purposes rather than for need. If you decide you need a blender and instead of buying one from Target, you pay double at Neimann Marcus, that isn't really mindless consumerism because you have already decided you need the item. Price doesn't really factor into it.

Conspicuous consumption, OTOH, is buying a blender with a Hummer logo (or an Eddie Bower edition SUV) because when others see your purchase, they will know you overpaid for it. Overpaying for a blender at Neimanns might or might not be conspicuous consumption because it could be that no one knows you paid double for the same thing you could have bought at Target.

As for the brother complaining about the charter flight. Do we have the same brother? That sounds like something my brother might complain about.


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## Imogen (Jul 25, 2006)

I agree with the OP that it was the American tourists choice to take the flight and use their money as they sit fit.

This is an interesting debate. Given the option between an object that is expensive and buying the same object in the £1 store, then I will go for the higher priced object. Not because I'm mindless, but because I know that the quality and make will be of a higher standard in the more expensive item.

But then, I always sit open mouthed at the Fabulous Life of the..... which shows on MTV sometimes. It boggles my mind that individuals pay HUGE amounts for something as simple as a handbag. Of course, once again this is their choice. But there is also the ethical aspect too. I completely went off of Jenn Lopez while watching that show because she had spent thousands of dollars on a handbag made of an exotic animal skin







:

Hmm I suppose mindless consumerism to me is this: Someone who buys LOADS of objects that they don't need and are manufactured within questionable environments and that object is easily discarded and thrown away instead of being donated etc etc.

At least if an object IS donated, then some use and benefit comes from the original mindless consumer approach.

_But then, this really is a complex issue to discuss._

Peace


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## SquishyKitty (Jun 10, 2005)

I think if a couple can afford to charter a plane, that's their business.

I tend to lean towards spending a little more for a quality product that will last me a long time, such as appliances and such. IMO, brand names do count for something in certain instances (we buy Sony electronics because they last forever, and Levis jeans for DS because it takes him longer ot tear holes in the knees).

I think buying just because you can is mindless, and I think hummers are in a category of ridiculousness all their own.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

I have certain relatives who will buy for my kids at Christmas but not pay any attention to them the rest of the year. That's pretty mindless, I think.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

I think mindless consumerism is consumerism without regard for the consequences for others. Any specific incidence of purchase may or may not be mindless consumerism, depending on how much consideration the consumers gave to the consequences. Did the American couple give proper consideration to the fossil fuel usage or carbon emissions of a chartered plane? To whether or not the plane was made ethically? To whether there may have been another alternative with different consequences? That is not to say that chartering a plane is always mindless consumerism. People can consider all the factors and consequences and decide that, all things considered, chartering the plane is the best choice. But to just say "let's charter a plane!" without thinking about it, is mindless consumerism.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I personally think mindless consumerism is:

- shopping recreationally rather than out of need
- shopping without any awareness of real cost (within person budgets, within society, within the environment)
- buying things to live up to an image rather than based out of need

For me that means if my relatives are coming to visit and I have an old Disney-themed but perfectly warm and cosy comforter for the guest bed, but I throw it out and get an organic cotton comforter just because I want them to think of me as the kind of person who doesn't participate in the consumer free-fall, that is mindless consumerism. Because my need to _appear_ like a mindful consumer has actually outstripped whether I need an item or not. (However if I need a comforter, I might start there.)

On the other hand if my son needs shoes because he outgrew his in that weird toddler overnight way and he has a winter hike today and the only store that opens before 9 is Wal-Mart and I buy him Diego boots there, that may well be a more mindful purchase, even if in that case it is not exactly the ideal pair of boots.

In the case of the plane charter, I can see it swing either way. Either there was a need to get there on time, or there was a need to APPEAR like the kind of people who charter planes to get there on time. Hard to say. 

I also think sometimes that the ethical consumer zeitgeist, while really important! is making the same mistake as the status consumer thrust - which is the redefinition of words like "citizen" and "person" to "consumer." My ethics include my spending habits, but they don't stem from a view of myself as primarily a consumer.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
Like hippiemomma69, I think the term mindless consumerism means shopping for recreational purposes rather than for need. If you decide you need a blender and instead of buying one from Target, you pay double at Neimann Marcus, that isn't really mindless consumerism because you have already decided you need the item. Price doesn't really factor into it.

Conspicuous consumption, OTOH, is buying a blender with a Hummer logo (or an Eddie Bower edition SUV) because when others see your purchase, they will know you overpaid for it. Overpaying for a blender at Neimanns might or might not be conspicuous consumption because it could be that no one knows you paid double for the same thing you could have bought at Target.

As for the brother complaining about the charter flight. Do we have the same brother? That sounds like something my brother might complain about.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I personally think mindless consumerism is:

- shopping recreationally rather than out of need
- shopping without any awareness of real cost (within person budgets, within society, within the environment)
- buying things to live up to an image rather than based out of need

For me that means if my relatives are coming to visit and I have an old Disney-themed but perfectly warm and cosy comforter for the guest bed, but I throw it out and get an organic cotton comforter just because I want them to think of me as the kind of person who doesn't participate in the consumer free-fall, that is mindless consumerism. Because my need to _appear_ like a mindful consumer has actually outstripped whether I need an item or not. (However if I need a comforter, I might start there.)

On the other hand if my son needs shoes because he outgrew his in that weird toddler overnight way and he has a winter hike today and the only store that opens before 9 is Wal-Mart and I buy him Diego boots there, that may well be a more mindful purchase, even if in that case it is not exactly the ideal pair of boots.

In the case of the plane charter, I can see it swing either way. Either there was a need to get there on time, or there was a need to APPEAR like the kind of people who charter planes to get there on time. Hard to say. 

I also think sometimes that the ethical consumer zeitgeist, while really important! is making the same mistake as the status consumer thrust - which is the redefinition of words like "citizen" and "person" to "consumer." My ethics include my spending habits, but they don't stem from a view of myself as primarily a consumer.









: to both of these. Mindless to me is shopping whether you need to or not, just because more is better. Conspicuous is getting the overtly brand name thing because it's brand name and the hot thing to buy and you want everyone to know it. It's two closely related, but different, issues, IMO.


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## Mrsboyko (Nov 13, 2007)

Along with all the ethical and moral mindlessness that runs rampant, my biggest definition of mindless consumerism is being fooled by commercials. New and Improved everything must mean it is better, right? The toothbrush that spins, sings and tells you when you are brusing too hard is SOOOOO mindless. The overflow of child-aimed commercials on Nick and Disney just boil my blood. As if that weren't bad enough, many ADULTS actually buy into that stuff. It boggles my mind how it happens. I could go on for a lot longer, but I am getting upset and i don't want to start spitting at the computer....







:


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

I don't use that term.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I bet the pilot of the charter plane was happy to have the work. (I also went to college with some very wealthy Europeans who spent at a good clip, so I am not sure all Americans are more or less spendthrift than all Europeans, espeically younger Euros who have not known deprivation or war).

OK for mindless consumerism, I would say that my wanting to have a new and spiffy stainless fridge with great storage in my new -to-me home, when I already have a perfectly useable 1970's fridge that is not even avocado green. (It's white). I've even considered the energy rate, and dh and I have decided that comtinuing to use it is more cost effcient than taking a perfectly good working applicance and dumping it in a landfill.

So I find myself wishing the thing would break down and not be able to be repaired.







So, for me, mindless consumerism would be if I bought a new (cool) fridge I do not need in any way.

But buying a little trinket at theme park I might do. It might be a nice memory of the day. Or it might be a piece of crap. I'd have to take something like that on a case by case basis.


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## rootzdawta (May 22, 2005)

To me, it's buying something for your kid last Christmas which they don't use at all and when you ask "What happened to xyz that you begged and pleaded for?" the answer is "it's 'too big and doofy'" and then buying them something equally expensive and useless (and even more likely to not be used) this Christmas because your child really wants it (again). Buying for the sake of buying without really thinking about it--will it be used, cherished or just tossed after a while. Just buying because you have the money to buy it--even if you don't _really_ have the money to buy it (credit).

I don't think you can judge if someone is being mindlessly consumerist on the face of things in every situation. Certain things are obviously not beneficial in anyway (Hummers).


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## WeasleyMum (Feb 27, 2007)

To me, it's simply buying things you don't need. And it's hard to judge that from the outside sometimes. For me, going to Target or Old Navy and buying whatever catches my eye, even though I had no intention of getting whatever it is previously. Like I need *another* long-sleeved T-shirt or photo frame!

I tend to buy expensive versions of some things because I have a taste for quality when I can afford it, but I don't consider that necessarily "mindless" or "conspicuous". I like organic dairy and grass-fed meats because they're better for my health and for the environment, and are more ethical than the Wal-mart steak. I bought an expensive-assed front-loading washing machine because it's very efficient, saves on water and electricity. But I would never pay $200 extra to get the pretty-colored one, KWIM? To me, buying the cheapest version of something isn't necessarily a path away from mindless consumerism-- basing every decision on price is mindless in its own way, it ignores the hidden social and environmental cost of cheap goods.

What makes me think of mindless consumerism more than anything are gas-guzzling vehicles. Almost EVERYONE that I work with drives a big ol' SUV (and I don't mean those newer, smaller models-- I mean Expeditions, etc.) These are women with no kids, who just drive themselves to work and back every day and b*** about the price of gas. If I point out that *I* pay less than $40 to fill my tank, they protest that I have a small car! As though they couldn't drive a small car as well... (And all of these SUV's were bought in the last few years, not back when gas was cheap!) Buying a huge, gas-wasting vehicle without *thinking* about WHY you might need one or not need one, without running a pro/con about the costs-- personal, environmental, social-- involved, is mindless.

And all of those statistics about how the average American family has $9,000 in credit-card debt and no savings make me think "mindless consumerism" as well. Obviously one can't know the individual story of any of those families-- there might be bad medical bills, lost jobs, failed relationships involved. But *some* of those credit-card bills must include too many trips to Fridays, the Olive Garden or Applebees, Target and Walmart, the mall, the outlets, Amazon.com. Seriously, I know MINE does.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

To me, mindless consumerism is the compulsion to buy something, anything, all the time. I have some relatives who seem like they are addicted to shopping, and honestly--half the time I think it is like a drug to them. I don't think they are really "aware" of what they are buying--it's more like "oh, this is pink, and it has lights, and the package says 2 and up, I will buy it for little so&so" but they don't really think about what it is that they are buying? Does that make sense? It goes beyond children's toys, to meaningless chotchkes, and clothes that are the wrong size, etc...


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I had another thought so I came back to say that sometimes I do pay a higher price.

Sometimes it's to support a particular store.

But often it's because I actually don't comparison-shop all the time. I do on some things - groceries, all the time, and big items. But I don't on a lot of things.

The reason for that is that I have found in my life that it takes a lot of life energy to "always know" where the sales and good prices are for every category of consumer good. And for me too, keeping track of all the "very best" prices and flyers and things was leading me to a lot of unnecessary purchases - because it was a good price! or because I happened to be out looking at blenders and just happened to spy silicone muffin cups and wow, those must be better (even though my muffin cups are fine) or whatever.

So now I don't look at flyers much and don't shop for sales. What I do is I only leave the house to shop in stores when we need something, go somewhere I think will have it at a reasonable price, buy it, and go home. For other things like seasonal toys & some kinds of clothing I tend to shop second hand.

I do spend more on some things, but overall our budget reflects that this actually saves us money. And I personally feel like it has given me a lot back in brain space.

Anyways, that was another thought related to the original discussion.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I had another thought so I came back to say that sometimes I do pay a higher price.

<snip>
What I do is I only leave the house to shop in stores when we need something, go somewhere I think will have it at a reasonable price, buy it, and go home.

<snip>
I do spend more on some things, but overall our budget reflects that this actually saves us money. And I personally feel like it has given me a lot back in brain space.

Actually, I totally get what you're saying. I do this too, because the extra effort and energy requires to go to several different stores to get the best price (which is often less than $1) is not worth the extra gas and time and effort (lugging 2 kids around), for me. I suppose I am fortunate that a difference of less than $1 is an amount I can absorb. I know that is not the case for everyone.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
Actually, I totally get what you're saying. I do this too, because the extra effort and energy requires to go to several different stores to get the best price (which is often less than $1) is not worth the extra gas and time and effort (lugging 2 kids around), for me. I suppose I am fortunate that a difference of less than $1 is an amount I can absorb. I know that is not the case for everyone.

True, and I am not going to shop al Walmart just because shampoo is .19 less. I went to the local indie place for an Ipod Nano, even though is was $3 less at Walmart. I am grateful the difference seems small to us.


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## MissSJ (Oct 23, 2005)

I agree with many things posted here. I also want to add that I will sometimes spend more for an item I know I can get elsewhere (maybe Target, WalMart, Toys R Us) cheaper but I spend a little more to support small businesses in my area. Sure I can get it cheaper but is it really _worth it_?


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## 93085 (Oct 11, 2007)

I guess for me I'd define it as buying things simply for the pleasure of buying or owning, without any real regard for what the object/service will add to your life. I don't think there's anything wrong with spending more on something that is nicer looking, as long as it's actually meaningful to you that it's nicer looking. I also don't think there's anything wrong with buying something cheap and frivolous if it will bring you or someone else sincere pleasure. For me, mindless consumerism is more about acquiring piles and piles of "stuff" that doesn't really add to your joy or your quality of life.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
For me that means if my relatives are coming to visit and I have an old Disney-themed but perfectly warm and cosy comforter for the guest bed, but I throw it out and get an organic cotton comforter just because I want them to think of me as the kind of person who doesn't participate in the consumer free-fall, that is mindless consumerism. Because my need to _appear_ like a mindful consumer has actually outstripped whether I need an item or not. (However if I need a comforter, I might start there.)

Excellent point! And I've really enjoyed reading everyone's posts; you've all given me lots of food for thought. I think my ideas about this are still evolving.

As to the Disney-themed comforter example -- that's helped me to put my finger on one reason why I think it's so hard (and really unproductive anyway) to look at another person's spending choices, and "know" what kind of consumer/shopper/citizen that person is, simply based on whether s/he is making the same choices I make, or would make in the same situation.

For instance, I can imagine a situation (okay, this is very hypothetical) where someone lived in a VERY CRUNCHY community where practically everyone this person knew had strong nutritional/environmental values and always lived according to them. I can imagine someone living in the middle of this, and making what many of us would see as the "right" choices -- but only for the purpose of "fitting in." There may be nothing wrong with the actual choices, but the person is making them mindlessly.

Then again: making choices for the purpose of "fitting in" nevertheless DOES involve some thought -- so it's not really accurate for me to say that even that is "mindless."

At the same time, two different people can put equal amounts of thought into their purchases, and come to very different conclusions about a particular thing, simply because each has her priorities arranged in a different order.

The more I think about it, the more I like KBecks's idea of not even using that term in the first place. To me, calling people "mindless consumers," or labeling certain choices as "mindless consumerism," seems to be more of a way to elevate ourselves by denigrating those who do things differently.


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## dolphinkisser (Dec 26, 2003)

It's funny...the first thought that came to mind when i thought mindless consumer was large screen tv.( like a GIANT one...don't know the term). Some people might really be movie buffs and really get a lot out of that purchase but at this point...i feel if i am thinking of buying something like that..i am not distributing my money properly...nothing against those of you that have one and enjoy it. But that purchase would be frivolous and useless to me.
Another thing would be the ipod with the small TV screen..why do you need to watch something on such a small screen.
On the other hand, i am buying Guitar Hero and a DS light for my kids. It will keep them entertained in the car and busy when friends come over.As long as my family gets use out of it , i don't consider it 'mindless consumerism"
This is an interesting thread and i am fascinated by the question.


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## theatermom (Jun 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
The more I think about it, the more I like KBecks's idea of not even using that term in the first place. To me, calling people "mindless consumers," or labeling certain choices as "mindless consumerism," seems to be more of a way to elevate ourselves by denigrating those who do things differently.









:

I will say that I really don't think that the amount of money spent is the determining factor -- it's definitely, for me, the thought process that goes into it. And as one of the pps said, my time is as important to me as money.

There are definitely some really out-there, extravagant purchases that I know I would never make, no matter how much money I had available to me. Some are frivolous beyond belief, and some are completely unethical (animal skin handbags, for one).

On the issue of Americans throwing money around, I find it a little funny that one of the main reasons the brother in question didn't like them chartering the plane was because it "made Americans look bad." That seems like a bad criteria to consider when making this decision (or any other).


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## siobhang (Oct 23, 2005)

How we spend our money says a lot about our priorities and values. So when someone else spends their money differently, it is an easy thing to judge.

For me, mindless consumerism is not being aware of the marketing manipulation rife in our society, and that lack of awareness colors ones ability to make real assessments about values and priorities. I consider mindless consumerism to be using the ownership and consumption of stuff as a measurement (of oneself or others) for other qualities - success, importance, intelligence, integrity, etc.

So I lump folks who buy organic because it "proves" what great parents they are in with the same group who buy luxury cars to "prove" to the neighbors that they are successful in life.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *siobhang* 
How we spend our money says a lot about our priorities and values. So when someone else spends their money differently, it is an easy thing to judge.

For me, mindless consumerism is not being aware of the marketing manipulation rife in our society, and that lack of awareness colors ones ability to make real assessments about values and priorities. I consider mindless consumerism to be using the ownership and consumption of stuff as a measurement (of oneself or others) for other qualities - success, importance, intelligence, integrity, etc.

So I lump folks who buy organic because it "proves" what great parents they are in with the same group who buy luxury cars to "prove" to the neighbors that they are successful in life.


Too bad you can't drive around in an organic apple, huh? Because no such status symbol exists, I make sure wherever we go that my kids are all wearing matching Tshirts that say "My mother loves me better than your mother loves you because she supports bodiversity, small farms, and not poisoning the planet".


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Yeah, most people don't even know we EVER buy organic -- 'cause we usually can't afford to ... so what you mainly see in our home is Aldi-type stuff (but some of the Aldi's produce IS organic). Whenever we splurge and buy organic, it's not to "prove" anything to anyone else, but to enjoy the superior taste and nutrition.

I think what Siobhang was referring to, was the people who discreetly "vet" potential friends to see if they're "really" crunchy, as opposed to just "surface" crunchy ... because it's very important to some people, to know they're not hangin' out with someone who, for instance, buys agriculturally-raised meats.

Seriously, I read a conversation about this once, on another message board. A parent was lamenting the difficulties of finding truly crunchy friends; she thinks she's found one, then discovers -- yikes! -- they're engaged in this or that un-crunchy practice. And so she's back to searching.

Still, I guess that's not in the league with driving an apple-shaped car (unwaxed to demonstrate how totally organic it is!








). It's not much different from the way many of us AP mommies hunger to meet other IRL mommies who nurse openly and practice Gentle Discipline, etcetera. While we might not automatically reject a mommy who "seemed" AP 'til we saw her spank, many of us would likely feel some disappointment.

Of course, my AP analogy isn't exactly tied-in with the "consumerism" theme -- except that I occasionally hear (second or third-hand) about mommas who place a lot of importance on what brand of cloth diapers or covers you use (in my little neck-o-the-woods, I'm radical just for using cloth most of the time!).


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Once the kids are older, it's a lot harder to pick new friends based on what sort of cloth diapers the teens wear.







I have to tell you...never have I picked a friend based on what they eat. Or what's on their baby's butt. It was exciting to meet people who were also cloth diapering...but that's about it.

I suppose even so called crunchy people have their own vices, even if they aren't about picking your friends by checking out their purse logo. Do you just ask, "Is your baby wearing wool or fleece" Or do you sneak peeks in the diaper bag (is that bag hemp?) ? "Oh my gosh, I could never be *her* friend, her baby was wearing *wool* longies, and we are vegan!"


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)




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