# Toddler harnesses ('leashes')



## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

Just out of curiosity what do the rest of you AP moms think about the use of harness on a toddler? Is it appropriate? Is it inappropriate? Is it only appropriate in certain situations? Etc.


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## sadkitty (Jun 24, 2004)

This is a huge can Of Worms around here







: .

My Ds has a "back pack" that just happens to have a leash that clips on and off. He loooves it







. Until he is satisfied to hold my hand and not run into the busy street that we live on the corner of, we will use it to go for walks.

When my sister was little and I was her 18 y.o. nanny, we had "sister bracelets" (two velcro rings with a stretchy cord in between) so that she wouldn't lose me in a crowd. No stigma and she never had to be forced or coerced into wearing them.

IMHO any safety device can be used in a respectful or disrespectful manner.

If this were a poll I would vote only appropriate in certain situations.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

I thought it might be, but I didn't know. I hadn't seen it brought up before. I was curious as to what AP moms thought about them and why it is that they think well/badly of them.


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## LadyButler (Sep 16, 2005)

While I don't use one regularly, I'm seriously considering getting one of the backpack versions for our upcoming vacation... For me, safety overrides any misgivings I have about using them.

I also don't have a problem with my SIL using them when she's out and about "alone" with her toddler twins.







: They're always heading in different directions- so unless she keeps them strapped in that aircraft carrier of a double stroller of hers, harnesses seem to be the best GD option. (She's pregnant with twins again and can't sling two toddlers at a time with the watermelon sized belly she's got now...)


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## Imogen (Jul 25, 2006)

I sometimes use a safety harness for my son when we're out shopping in the town. If we're closer to home, when we go out to the shops or to the play centre, he walks (or should I say runs) there without one and darts down the street at 50 pmh with me running behind him







He does hold my hand when crossing the road though and knows not to cross without doing that. I'd be too afraid not to have one in the town though, with all of the traffic and the fear of losing him in the crowd, he's so darn fast, bless him.


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## MissRubyandKen (Nov 2, 2005)

I used a harness a few times when ds was a toddler. One time I tied string to dd's and my belt loops, when ds was tiny and in arms, and we were in a very crowded spot. I have also asked them to hold onto my skirt a few times when they didn't want to hold my hand and had help pushing the cart at the store







, among other things like pushing ds in a stroller, strapped in of course and using a sling. I think it is fine to take measures to keep your child close and safe.







If the child is clearly distressed by the particular way you are attempting to keep them safe and close, I say find another way. So if the child does not like the harness and fights against it, attempt to find another way.


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## Susuhound (Jul 5, 2006)

If I had twins or 2 babies close in age I would consider using one. as it is Sophie is fairly obliging at staying close to me. I see people using strollers to restrain kids all the time, don't really see a difference. At least with a harness they're still walking and getting some exercise. I think modern society with it's traffic and perverts requires parents to adapt a little from the 'ideal' of the free range child. If they need a strap tying them to a parent to keep safe then that's what they need. Evolution didn't equip us to take on cars at the age of 2. Like anything they can be used respectfully or not. I've seen parents with kids walking beside them without a harness and treating the kids like **** and parents using a harness and obviously being responsive to their children.
So I would vote yes, in certain circumstances.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

This is a huge can of worms here. LOL!

I am the mother of a child with Autism. I have used a tether/harness, and would again, if needed. He is big for a 7 yr old,very strong, very active and can run away from us in a split second. He is high functioning, but has not yet been able to learn his address or phone number, so he could not help anyone find us if he is lost. We have not had to use one for almost 3 yrs, as he has learned to stay with me fairly well. Back when we used the tether/harness, he was almost totally nonverbal.

I also have a 1 yr old who is very active and who is too big to tote around and who hates the sling or other carriers. For now, he likes his stroller, but if he starts resisting that, I will get another tether/harness. I would rather him be happy and able to walk and explore, and me having a backup in place.

I think of tethers/harnesses as a backup safety measure, not a primary one.

It is not always a matter of lazy parenting, contrary to what some folks think.


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

I can't understand why this topic would open a can of worms. I really can't. Everyone single mama uses some type of "device" to keep her kids close and safe - be it a sling, a hand, a stroller or a harness.

I never had to use one because my DD is pretty compliant and never breaks away from me. On the other hand, she has sensory issues and will NOT hold my hand. I have used a stroller with her in it and I have also just pushed it along and let my DD hold onto the side.

If I had a child that was prone to breaking away and running I would have used a harness in appropriate situations - i.e., at a crowded amusement park, in a mall. I would not have used one in an easier situation - the park, my backyard, or the beach.

Safety comes first.


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

When my son wants to get going he will climb in the stroller, bring shoes, or bring his "backpack".

He knows that sometimes the choice is be carried, stroller, or backpack if we are near something dangerous (like walking on sidewalks of a busy street/parking lot or at the air port).

He loves to wander around and is happy to have the backpack because it keeps us from having to pick him up and redirect him every few minutes. And he HATES when we pick him up o redirect when he is in a wandering mood.


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

I was just wondering about this. I too have a backpack harness that got more use when I was pregnant than anything else. DS loves being able to walk and run.


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## Benji'sMom (Sep 14, 2004)

We used one when Benji was a young toddler (under age 1 till about 1.5). It was wonderful because he could walk around without hurting himself. It made outings MUCH more enjoyable. He doesn't need it anymore because he'll walk close to us if we ask, but for that period of time that we did need it, it was a nice thing to have.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:

For me, safety overrides any misgivings I have about using them.










DD has a monkey backpack with a tail (which she insists on calling her "leash" despite my efforts to avoid that term) and when DS was first born and she was prone to running off in very dangerous situations, I used it. We haven't used it in a while but if the situation warranted it...I would use it again.

She actually still asks for it once in a while. It was a very useful tool for us when we needed it!


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## Elyra (Aug 19, 2006)

When I was small I know that my cousin, my brother, and I wore the old fashioned harnesses. My mother and aunt would take us out together a lot to crowded places. I know that my aunt received a few very negative comments at the BP Fair one time. I remember we were in the ladies room and someone said pretty snotty to her about it and she fired back that she would rather have him on a leash then lose him. They really got into it and I was pretty scared. I don't really understand why people get upset when they see someone using them.

I used the bracelet style one with my oldest child. If he didn't want to wear it I gave him other options as just holding my hand or riding in a stroller or buggy. With my younger children I have not used any harness device, but I have used my ring sling as a harness a few times. When I see people using them with their children I don't have any negative feelings toward them. Usually my first thought is the child may have special needs, then if it seems like it is just a parenting style, I think maybe it is a hard day for that parent or child, or maybe this is the exception not the rule. If I saw the same person over and over using a harness without an obvious need, like a crowded place or other children with them, I may ask out of curiosity why they use one. I would never just assume that some one uses one all the time however.


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## sarathan (Jun 28, 2005)

I have one for my 3-year old. I don't use it very often, but I don't see what the big deal as long as they're used appropiately in the right situations.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I see no reason for this issue to be divisive.

I think we can all agree that keeping our child safe is of utmost importance.

I personally did not use a harness. Other approaches worked for us.

But, I can easily admit that if other approaches did not work, and we had to go near potential dangers (water, traffic, crowded airport), I would do what I had to do in order to keep ds safe.


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

Quote:

I see no reason for this issue to be divisive. I think we can all agree that keeping our child safe is of utmost importance.


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## maciascl (Nov 11, 2004)

Wow! I feel really bad because I did not expect this to be such a mellow topic with most people in agreement. This makes me happy









I personally have never used one because I have mixed feelings about them. I agree completely on the saftey part, but there is still something that just doesn't feel right to me about them. I don't know what or why though.

DS has NEVER been able to walk by himself really anywhere with out holding an adults hand because he will run at the first possible chance he gets. (this includes from the front door to the car even







: ) So we stick to holding hands (very tightly I might add







), using a stroller or shopping cart everywhere pretty much.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

I have mixed feelings about these things too. I can see in certain situations how they could be appropriate. You have a small child in a large crowd, or a special needs child as a pp mentioned, or a very active toddler. Idealy, moms would use them when needed and appropriately. The problem begins with those mothers who use them as punishment, or jerk their children around and use the leash as discipline and as a fear tool-that's where I have an issue.

I do however think that a child's safety should come first, when that is the goal, the true goal, then I have no issues with them.


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## Individuation (Jul 24, 2006)

I have never used one, entirely because I don't want to deal with the snotty comments I've head about other moms ("She has him on a LEASH... like a DOG!")

But I've never seen an unhappy kid in one. The kids always look thrilled to be able to putter around safely rather than be stuck in a stroller.


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## frogguruami (Sep 21, 2004)

I used to think they were horrible until I had a child that was a runner. I think until people are trying to catch their child as they are running into a 6 lane road because they wiggled free in the parking lot 50 yrds away and took off they really can't understand. I DON'T think they should be used so you can ignore what your child is doing. But if you have and overly independant, strong willed child that likes to take off then it is a good option in dangerous or busy environments. Unfortunately we do not live in a safe world and while my son was in that stage he got a harness. Even at 5 I will use a wrist or belt loop strap if we go to the fair or amuzement park.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *halalove*
I have never used one, entirely because I don't want to deal with the snotty comments I've head about other moms ("She has him on a LEASH... like a DOG!")

But I've never seen an unhappy kid in one. The kids always look thrilled to be able to putter around safely rather than be stuck in a stroller.


I have never had anyone comment where I could hear them. If someone dared to speak to me or about me and my child in such a manner, I would give them a piece of my mind. Not very kind, I know, but people really, really, really need to mind their own dang business.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

We've never used one, but I know other parents find them quite useful. To each their own







And, of course, I learned many years ago to never say never


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

I don't see it as any less respectful than being strapped in a stroller. My kids hated the stroller. I didn't try an external synthetic umbilical cord though.


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## monkeys4mama (Apr 25, 2006)

I tried one of these w/ my dd#1 and she flat out refused to walk with it on. Sat down in the middle of the floor and wailed until I took it off. So much for that.







I never tried it again w/ any of the others. I'll admit it would have been handy w/ ds tho. He tended to wander off quickly when he was a toddler.


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## BookGoddess (Nov 6, 2005)

The children I've seen with the backpack type harnesses look happy. I've yet to see one that's crying or fussing. I don't have a harness for DD. Yet. But who knows..if she turns out to be a runner (she just mastered walking!







) we may get one for situations like those mentioned in previous posts (crowded malls, amusement parks, etc.)


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## annamama (Sep 23, 2005)

I invariably use one for ds when we go out and about in town simply because there is a lot of traffic on the road and the pavement happens to run alongside it! I don't put it on him in the middle of a field, for example.
He holds my hand and I have the harness strap looped over a finger. I was wondering whether it was really necessary until he twisted his hand out of mine as we were walking. I was glad of it then.
I don't see how keeping him safe is disrespectful - I mean, where does being disrespectful stop?


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## honeybee (Mar 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyButler*
While I don't use one regularly, I'm seriously considering getting one of the backpack versions for our upcoming vacation... For me, safety overrides any misgivings I have about using them.

I also don't have a problem with my SIL using them when she's out and about "alone" with her toddler twins.







: They're always heading in different directions- so unless she keeps them strapped in that aircraft carrier of a double stroller of hers, harnesses seem to be the best GD option. (She's pregnant with twins again and can't sling two toddlers at a time with the watermelon sized belly she's got now...)









Wow your SIL is so blesssed! What a challenge, though.


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## NiBeKa (Jan 26, 2006)

I used a harness when my twins were small and I had nb daughter. A dad at grocery store barked at me and said he would never tie his baby up.







: (he carried the infant while mom shopped) I told him he might when he has 2 more and is in the store by himself. "I know where my children are, safely by my side".







Mom's with multiple tethered toddlers beware of smart babes wrapping up clueless mommies while chatting with friends in the produce aisle.







:


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## Patchfire (Dec 11, 2001)

I know someone who does, in fact, misuse the 'leash.' One kid, not particularly active, so she can sit on a bench.

If we go anywhere crowded with ds before he gets older (like Disney), then we'll probably get one. He's a runner and very friendly with everyone.


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## mama_b (Dec 14, 2004)

I am hardly ever out and about with my dd alone. But I won't hesitate to buy one if I ever need it.


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## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

We've never used one because my 21 month old will not leave my side in public (unless we're in the park with her friends.) She also likes holding hands. If I had a runner, I'd use one in a heartbeat.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I bought a harness-style one for dd when I was pregnant with ds2. She's very active, and I was having a really hard time chasing her for about the last 5-6 weeks. I figured it was worth a try, if she liked it. She _loved_ it. After having been bullied into another c-section, I also used it for the first month or so postpartum. Since then, she occasionally finds it and insists that I put it on her, then she usually holds her own "tail". I do'nt know why she decided it was a tail - it's not an animal harness or anything.

She loves it, and it certainly enabled me to do a lot more with her when ds2 was a newborn.


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## abac (Mar 10, 2005)

I've never used one, but I've considered it. I don't think it's a problem if the child is okay with it. If the child does have a problem with it, I think it's a bad idea.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama*
I see no reason for this issue to be divisive.

I think we can all agree that keeping our child safe is of utmost importance.

I personally did not use a harness. Other approaches worked for us.

But, I can easily admit that if other approaches did not work, and we had to go near potential dangers (water, traffic, crowded airport), I would do what I had to do in order to keep ds safe.

I completely agree. While I don't use those for mine, the most important thing is keeping our kids safe and if that works for one family, then I'm all for it!!


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## moonpie's_mama (Oct 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *halalove*
But I've never seen an unhappy kid in one. The kids always look thrilled to be able to putter around safely rather than be stuck in a stroller.









: i don't see them much anymore, but this was always the case. the kids were always enjoying the freedom of movement, and the moms always seemed relaxed. it seems like this would be preferable to a situation where the kid's screaming, dying to get out of the stroller or be put down - which i've also seen tons of times.

i agree with everyone else. safety comes first, and if your kid digs it, what's the problem?


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

I have one I used with DD and it was wonderful for her. She is a very spirited child who would only cry when placed in a stroller and would stage a sit in whenever I would try to hold her hand. Problem is she would never stay with me if I wasn't holding on to her in some way. She loved her "leash"--it gave her more freedom of movement, freed up her hands to touch everything, and kept her out of the stroller. I liked it because she was still right there with me but happy and able to touch things. I do disagree when I see people treating their children like dogs with the leash on--you know, like dragging them around with it. I would just hold the handle and let her take the lead. I also still always insisted that she hold my hand when crossing the street--that way she didn't forget when she wasn't wearing the "leash". Personally, I have never received a negative comment about it while using it in public--in fact, quite the opposite. I always would have people coming up to me asking me where I got it because they wanted one for their child. I think for us, and our DD, this was the most caring thing we could have done.


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## Tonia80 (Jun 10, 2006)

I think it is not a big deal as long as it is used respectfully. To me, I see no difference in a harness compared to using a sling or backpack carrier or stroller or just holding your childs hand.... it is all a way to keep your child close to you. I have three very spirited young boys and am a single mama right now so I do use my ring sling as a harness for my toddler when he doe snot want to ride IN teh sling. I just loop it round his waist and he loves it cuz he is free to walk with me. It gives me peace of mind. And I rarely have to do it anyway as usually the boys are pretty willing to stick right waith me when we are out.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

These reasons are exactly why I use one. I have a runner who loves to explore. He doesn't like being carried, worn, or pushed in the stroller for very long. He hates holding my hand because he wants to feel free. (Not to mention bending to hold his hand can give me a back cramp, as well as the fact that he's quite good at wriggling free.) This allows me to give him independance without endangering him, and I can still teach him how to behave appropriately by speaking to him, redirecting him, etc. I think it's too much to expect of him for him to stay close by. Even if he knows better, how can he be expected to control every little baboddler (baby + toddler, lol) urge he has? I see no difference in using a harness than in restraining your child with words and behavioral training, a stroller, or a carrier. I think you should do what keeps your child safe, healthy, and happy.

Most of the people I've met are okay with them, but it really bugs me when I hear people say that we must not be able to control our children, that we are treating them like dogs, that we're lazy, or that we should just stay at home if we can't give them attention. I can't stand that! I'm not lazy. I'm just not always as quick as my son, and I don't want to risk him getting snatched by a stranger or hit by a car before I catch up to him. Of course I can't control him with words; he can't even say mama yet, much less control himself! I leash my dog to keep the dog safe, and that's what the child harness is about. As for just staying at home instead, how ridiculous...like a child should never get to explore just because he hates the stroller, kicks and screams if he's held when he wants to run, etc. Some of us have to go grocery shopping and buy winter wardrobes for our ducklings. What else should we do, let the child scream and cry in the cart as we shop? :/

I was afraid I'd be opening a can of worms. I know most mainstream moms are ok with harnesses, so I didn't know how the AP moms would react. I'm glad to see everyone playing so nicely and being so nonjudgemental.







Besides, I know a lot of very well-treated and very loved dogs, so why does it have to be a bad thing to treat a child like a dog anyway? Most pet owners these days love and spoil their little furbabies!


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

I swore I would never use them until the day we were in the centre of Paris I stopped to get something out of the backpack and suddenly dd ran away into the middle of the road of which there are five lanes on each side - I think she was chasing the pigeons!! I just about had a heart attack thankfully she wasn't hurt - I really dont know how though. The next day my mum went out and bought reins and sent them over here - I have had the comment from some snotty french lady that thought I didn't understand french about the dog on the lead thing - to which I replied I'd rather have her on the reins than under a car! If it's a case of safety then there is no dicussion and I really learnt the hard way - it was the most terrible experience. Do it in the way that you see best and not a punishment - let the kids play horses or something like that. That being said dd got such a fright that she was quite happy to be on the reins!


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## janerose (May 9, 2004)

We also have a backpack one. The dog style & my DD doesn't mind it. In fact, she'll ask to put it on.

Honestly, we don't use it a lot. Neither of us has a big problem watching her when we're out, but she's not a runner and right now it's just her. I can definitly see using it more once the baby comes & I have to juggle two! Mostly, our parents have used it when they watch her. It's harder for them to chase after her if she runs off and frankly I *like* that they use it. I actually requested that my SIL use it whenever she took DD for a walk or whatever when she watched her over labor day weekend. People who aren't around your kids all the time just don't have that "radar" like parents do.









Oh, and I agree about the stroller thing. My Mom is addicted to the stroller! She'd literally put DD in it & push her around the yard to go for a "walk".







: Also, our mall has a free book table every Thursday. You drop by with your kids & they can choose a book. DH & I were just saying how sad it is that DD is usually the ONLY toddler not strapped into a stroller. We actually let her walk, play with the books, read them to her, etc. All the other parents just pick a book that they think their kids will like, hand it too them, and then walk off. Kind of defeats the purpose of taking your kids to a fun, kid oriented even you know??? I'd much rather see kids in harnesses where at least they can move around.

Holly


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonfirefaery*
Most of the people I've met are okay with them, but it really bugs me when I hear people say that we must not be able to control our children, that we are treating them like dogs, that we're lazy, or that we should just stay at home if we can't give them attention. I can't stand that! I'm not lazy. I'm just not always as quick as my son, and I don't want to risk him getting snatched by a stranger or hit by a car before I catch up to him. Of course I can't control him with words; he can't even say mama yet, much less control himself! I leash my dog to keep the dog safe, and that's what the child harness is about. As for just staying at home instead, how ridiculous...like a child should never get to explore just because he hates the stroller, kicks and screams if he's held when he wants to run, etc. Some of us have to go grocery shopping and buy winter wardrobes for our ducklings. What else should we do, let the child scream and cry in the cart as we shop? :/


People who would call someone lazy or that we should just stay at home, etc, well...I can tell you what I would tell them to do, but I would get banned.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

For both my kids, there was a period between learning to walk and readily accepting holding my hand in dangerous situations (parking lots, etc), in which the harness was an important piece of my toolkit.

A kid who wants to DO IT THEMSELF, to walk, but either has hans full of sticks and pinecones, or who just doesn't want to hold hands, might, as my kids both did, accept the harness. We do a lot of walking and hiking in places with rocky streams and deep gorges, where a few seconds of "breaking free" and running in the wrong direction could be catastrophic. (Every year or so, someone new to town steps off a path to relieve himself and falls to his death).

I got a lot of comments to the effect of "Well, MY child KNOWS she has to hold my hand in those situations." Yeah, and eventually my kids learned that mamma wanted them to hold hands in parking lots and on trails. But while we were learning that, the harness was there just in case. They both loved having their hands free to explore, pick things up, carry a toy, what have you.

And I got as many "Wow, where did you get that?" comments as I did eyerolls or dog-on-a-leash remarks. I was all ready in case of something snotty, to say "Well, at least he's not strapped to a board with wheels. HE's free to walk, unlike your kid." but I never actually had to say it.


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

Has anyone else's viewpoint on this changed as they got older or had kids?? I remember seeing young kids with the harnesses on, when I was younger too, and thinking it didn't seem right or that it was like a "dog on a leash." I think having kids and maturing affected my viewpoint on that a lot, but back then, nothing anyone said to me would have made me feel differently. You know? I'm ashamed for my negative thoughts I had then toward those mothers.


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## NiteNicole (May 19, 2003)

Quote:

a few seconds of "breaking free" and running in the wrong direction could be catastrophic
Yesterday I sat in the parking lot of a large shopping center while my husband went in and filled a prescription. I saw many MANY runaway toddlers and MANY MANY speeding cars. I was there for twenty minutes and saw so many close calls and near misses it took my breath away.


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

I have seen these in action and enormously helpful to a friend who is blind and had an adventurous toddler. I've not needed one, myself.


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## mika85 (Aug 9, 2006)

I actually don't see people using them too much, I guess because it does have a such a negative rep. I would rather not use one. DD is too young now so we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Me and my sister always stayed with our parents and never needed a harness because the idea of getting lost was so frightening. So maybe she'll be like that too, and will want to hold hands and stay close.


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## Imogen (Jul 25, 2006)

I think that harnesses and wrist straps became more popular in the UK after the murder of Jamie Bulger in 1993... parents became more aware of how easy it is to become separated from young children in busy places. For most I imagine, it really is just a case of security and safety.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

I never really liked them. I thought it was kind of weird to have a leash for a child because generally leashes are for dogs. I wasn't like 100% anti-harness, but I just thought it was kind of silly, that there had to be better ways, and that it was kind of mean to restrict the kid like that. Now that I have a parent, with a kid who loves to run around but is too young to control his impulses, the only thing that bothers me is when parents drag their kids around, jerk on them, or don't teach good behavior in addition to using them. Just more reason why I try not to judge a practice until I've been in othe situation.


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## Suzetta (Dec 21, 2003)

My oldest dd preferred the one that attaches her wrist to mine. I used it with her from about 17 months 'till her language and listening skills improved and she could better stay close to me, I think that we stopped using it at about 26 months.. My younger dd prefers the one that goes over her chest and straps from the back.

Both girls definitely prefer this to the stroller or cart! It gives them the freedom to explore, and the opportunity for more exercise. It also gives me the peace of mind, to know that my children are safe.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

I think they have their place as long as the child is completely OK with it and it is used gently. My dd was a runner for a while and it was difficult to keep up with her. We live in a rural-ish area and we do not go to box stores or malls so it has not really been a big problem. One time we tried using her Maya wrap as a tether in a busy airport. We were on a total of 6 hours of flights and dd really needed to stretch her legs during the layover. But the airport was so busy, she kept weaving away from us, so we tried the wrap. It was like putting a cat on a leash! She bolted off in three different directions at once, tangling and toppling everything in her wake. She thought it was the funniest thing ever to take down that book display and nearly kill that old woman! In desparation, dh let go of the end of the sling so she would not tangle enything or anyone else up while we tried to get to her. While we were still running after her (now joined by the bookstore employee and the angry old woman), she managed to go under this man's legs then around him, nearly toppling him as well. At least he held his ground so we could get to her and remove the sling from her AND the man's legs.

We never tried it again.

Word of advice? Always try it in a non-congested area when using it for the first time.

BTW, she later that day tried to make off with one of the security golf carts. I was in the bathroom with dh watching her. As I am washing my hands I hear people yelling. I knew imediately that it involved my dd.......


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## Greenie (Sep 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LadyButler*
While I don't use one regularly, I'm seriously considering getting one of the backpack versions for our upcoming vacation... For me, safety overrides any misgivings I have about using them.

I also don't have a problem with my SIL using them when she's out and about "alone" with her toddler twins.







: They're always heading in different directions- so unless she keeps them strapped in that aircraft carrier of a double stroller of hers, harnesses seem to be the best GD option. (She's pregnant with twins again and can't sling two toddlers at a time with the watermelon sized belly she's got now...)









OMG!! Hugs to your SIL!!!


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yooper*
BTW, she later that day tried to make off with one of the security golf carts. I was in the bathroom with dh watching her. As I am washing my hands I hear people yelling. I knew imediately that it involved my dd.......

Kids are awesome!


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## firstwomantomars (Mar 2, 2005)

Great info on this thread - thanks!

Could someone point me to a picture or place to find/order the backpack kind? Is it on the adult or the child? I'm not sure I get it ...







: but it sounds interesting!!!

Thanks!!!


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## janerose (May 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firstwomantomars*
Great info on this thread - thanks!

Could someone point me to a picture or place to find/order the backpack kind? Is it on the adult or the child? I'm not sure I get it ...







: but it sounds interesting!!!

Thanks!!!

Well, I ordered mine from walmart.com







: And right after ours arrived our Walmart started carrying them in stock. They also have a monkey style. This is what we have:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4837494

But I do know there are other places online you can get one as well. Several of them were WAY out of our price range though. Hopefully someone else can help you out with other links. I seem to remember someone else at MDC also mentioning that they got their's at Target...

Holly


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## SunflowerMama (Nov 20, 2001)

I used to think that they were awful. I thought it was so cruel to do that to your child. LOL Then I got older and had kids of my own. I have never used one, but I totally understand why they are used. I also see them as a safety tool for parents.


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## Princess Frannie (Sep 1, 2006)

Hi mommas,
I'm not a mom yet but i do have fond memories of my harness and wrist leash from my hellion days. I NEVER wanted to hold hands or be held and i was a runner...lol still am. If my babies are anything like me I don't think i would hesitate using one in some form, it would spare me and my kids from the trauma my mom and I experienced when I got lost at Disneyworld at the ripe old age of 3


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## Montessorimom8 (Mar 6, 2006)

Personally I don't like the look of some of them: I was at the zoo with ds and dh a week ago and there was a little boy there, he was Amish and instead of a wrist one he was tied up in a thick leather tether!! It actually looked they were taking him for a walk! He had to be ds's age, 4.5...







: and I admit I did lift my eyebrows a little!

I never had a problem with ds running from me - he has very mild sensory issues and doesn't hold my hand but does hold onto one of my fingers and that's good enough for me. But that is US. If I had a runner I'd use one - the most unobtrusive one I could find. If his safety was compromised in any way I'd use it and not think twice and to heck with what people thought...I'm just glad I never had to!


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

i personally see nothing wrong with them if they are being used for safety. I can't expect a 2 or 3yr old to comprehend the severity or danger of someone kidnapping them etc, so if they were prone to running off, I would use one.

Quote:

Both girls definitely prefer this to the stroller or cart! It gives them the freedom to explore, and the opportunity for more exercise. It also gives me the peace of mind, to know that my children are safe.
i also agree with this comment, it gives the children some freedom while still being safe.


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## smilla653 (Jul 11, 2005)

I just can't seem to overcome my negative reaction when I see one. The point about the harnesses not being all that different from strollers is a good one, though. You've definitely got me thinking!

On the other hand, I live in a busy urban neighborhood with LOTS of small children. Most mothers don't seem to use leashes, therefore, somehow most Moms/babies seem to do OK without them.

My feeling is usually the less gadgets, the better.


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smilla653*
I just can't seem to overcome my negative reaction when I see one. The point about the harnesses not being all that different from strollers is a good one, though. You've definitely got me thinking!

On the other hand, I live in a busy urban neighborhood with LOTS of small children. Most mothers don't seem to use leashes, therefore, somehow most Moms/babies seem to do OK without them.

My feeling is usually the less gadgets, the better.

I used to live in a busy, urban neighborhood (and visit there periodically) and I can live without one. But my daughter (with me) is not too much of a runner. She will take off if DH is in charge because clearly, I am the muscle. I will buy one before we go to the state fair though. We have an Ergo and a stroller but DD will want to walk and explore and really, that is why we will take her.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

I was just looking through the new sensational beginnings catalog, and in there they have these little radio frequency devices that clip to kids shoes and the parent has a remote, so you can locate them if they run off. I think they would be cool for an older child, but for ultimate safety for a toddler, I would use a leash.


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

I hate that people are calling them leashes... seriously disturbs me. I prefer to call them safety harnesses. Maybe calling them leashes helps with the negative perception.


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## wonderwahine (Apr 21, 2006)

I know for myself its a cultural thing, I'm from new zealand and they are marketed as leashes, so its hard for me to call it a harness....


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

For me, harness doesn't have any better connotation than leash







ITA with Yooper about the child needing to be okay with it and being used gently. I would think this would be a given though









Thanks, everyone for a civil discussion


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## singlemomto3 (Dec 16, 2005)

I love putting ours on my 1 year old while going shopping, garage saling, once he's done being held, i can set him down and instead of being done looking, we can both look but with in a short distance of each other. Ours is a monkey backpack and he loves it and carries it even when he's not wearing it.


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## smilla653 (Jul 11, 2005)

By the way, the monkey backpack sounds kind of neato, in a stealth-harness kind of way. Can anyone post a link or pic?


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama*
I see no reason for this issue to be divisive.

I think we can all agree that keeping our child safe is of utmost importance.

I personally did not use a harness. Other approaches worked for us.

But, I can easily admit that if other approaches did not work, and we had to go near potential dangers (water, traffic, crowded airport), I would do what I had to do in order to keep ds safe.









: Totally.

And - from the mothering higher order multiples tribe - I'd say that it is something that many of my peers use once the kiddos hit a certain age. I haven't tried it yet - but this is the first I've heard of the "back packs" - my kids love backpacks - so maybe this would work for us? They are starting to really struggle and fight the stroller - and I can't handle them alone on an outing . . .


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

So, is this the type of backpack y'all mean? Does the parent hold a child by the "tail"? That's much cuter than anything I've seen used around here


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

THIS is the one we have. The actual backpack part isn't useful for more than a bouncy ball or the tail itself.


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

I have a toddler and a newborn, and I bought one of these backpacks for my toddler, so I don't have to be yanking on her arm all the time. I don't use the stroller much. We usually just walk into a store and then use the cart. (Most other outtings we have daddy to help carry babies.) The only problem I have had is teaching her not to run away from me. If I try to "rein her in", then sometimes it will cause her to fall. She seems to love the perceived freedom of not having to hold my hand. Any advice on how you actually use it/how the child gets use to the restraint?


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## BennyPai (Jul 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
I bought a harness-style one for dd when I was pregnant with ds2. She's very active, and I was having a really hard time chasing her for about the last 5-6 weeks. I figured it was worth a try, if she liked it. She _loved_ it. After having been bullied into another c-section, I also used it for the first month or so postpartum. Since then, she occasionally finds it and insists that I put it on her, then she usually holds her own "tail". I do'nt know why she decided it was a tail - it's not an animal harness or anything.

She loves it, and it certainly enabled me to do a lot more with her when ds2 was a newborn.

My dd also refers to it as a "tail." She loves her teddy & doggy backpack harnesses.







I carry my 11mos dd in a sling. 2 & 3/4 yo dd holds my hand. I slip the handle to her harness over my wrist - just in case she decides to wriggle away. I don't hold it like a leash.








Whenever we're out without the harness, she runs. Dd's favorite game to play in stores is hide-and-seek.








I haven't heard this safety gadget is controversial...







Many AP folks I've met have actually used slings for this purpose.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

I'm going to get the monkey when my son is a few months older. Right now we just use a leash that attachs to his wrist and then to my hand. I think he'd be more distracted by the harness than he is by the little leash. He doesn't really mind it. He stops to kind of pick at it sometimes, like he does ANYTHING he ends up wearing, but mostly he just ignores it and keeps walking, feeling all free and independant lol


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BennyPai*
My dd also refers to it as a "tail." She loves her teddy & doggy backpack harnesses.







I carry my 11mos dd in a sling. 2 & 3/4 yo dd holds my hand. I slip the handle to her harness over my wrist - just in case she decides to wriggle away. I don't hold it like a leash.









Ah, I see, so if you need to direct the child, you still need to hold her hand. But you could let go if you were just going to follow wherever she wanted to go. The few times we tried it, she always tried to go the opposite direction I wanted to go. Tried it in a store once - big mistake, she was grabbing everything off the shelves. I'm glad she's willing to ride in the cart! Plus her little legs got tired after awhile, and when I had an emergency run to the bathroom, I was practically dragging her.


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## jackaroosmom (May 12, 2006)

I can see both sides of this, but personally, I wouldn't use one. If they were more widely used and socially acceptable, I would perhaps consider one. I live in Los Angeles, and I never really see people use them. Maybe a few times at the zoo or at Disneyland. Everyone has their child in strollers everywhere.

It just reminds me of a dog on a leash or bondage or something, but I have seen a few kids running from parents who probably wished they had a harness!

I am not comfortable bf my toddler in public either, so I guess I worry too much about public opinion!


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Got 3 monkeys on order today. With toddler triplets who prefer to walk rather than stroll - and an active 4 year old in tow -- I hope this is a good solution for us. One that will give the babies the freedom that they want - while also keeping them safe.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Hmmm....3 monkey backpacks? I hope you ordered an extra arm to hold all the tails!


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## dharmama (Dec 29, 2002)

My DD loves her moneky backpack although I always have to chuckle about the "monkey on her back" every time she wears it!


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## katallen (Jan 4, 2005)

I hate children leashes and I am sorry if that word offends some people, but that is what they are whether they are attached to a nice backpack or a leash on a wrist that you hold onto, even my three year old knows that much and I have never pointed it out to her for fear that she would tactlessly point out children in them (which she now does anyways). They are also only good for keeping children from running away. They don't do anything that holding a child's hand or carrying them doesn't do. A child can still get into a lot of trouble with them in a store because they leave several feet of slack and if there is something very tantalizing to the child (like clothes on a hanger that need to be pulled off, a jar that looks cool, etc...) they will still have ample opportunity to do a lot of damage. The only thing they are good for is not letting the child run off but they couldn't do that in your arms or holding your hand and you are more aware of them when they are tugging your hand to get something then when they can reach something without tugging the leash.


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## ZeldasMom (Sep 25, 2004)

I have one. I haven't used it a lot, but have been very glad to have it when I have needed it. We used it mainly when I had a newborn and a toddler and we were getting in and out of the car and walking through parking lots. My older child was a runner and was too young to understand about being too short to be seen in a car (especially an SUV's) rear-view mirror (or even in front of the hood when it is close).

About hand-holding--if that works for your child, then obviously that is the way to go, but my DS did not like this. And when I think about it, I can see why he would find it more pleasant to walk wearing a harness with a tether than having his hand gripped and held way up in the air. And he likes walking much better than being in a stroller.

The older my son gets, the less the tether has been needed. Now he is almost 3 and one thing I have been working on with him has been keeping one hand on the car while he is waiting while we are getting in/out of the car.


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

My older dd, almost five years old, has surprised me by repeatedly requesting a leash to hold when we are out in crowds. She holds the tether on the jogging stroller when we are out hiking. She saw some kids with them at Disneyland a few months ago and was smitten with one that looked like fannypacks and backpacks worn by mother and child with a tether between the packs and animal faces on the child's pack. I guess that it seems exciting to some kids,but could humiliate others.


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

Quote:

The only thing they are good for is not letting the child run off but they couldn't do that in your arms or holding your hand and you are more aware of them when they are tugging your hand to get something then when they can reach something without tugging the leash.
It is not always an option to carry a toddler. Some might feel totally comfortable carrying two babes, or carrying their toddler while pregnant, etc. I on the other had didn't feel comfortable being 6 mos or more pregnant and carrying a 25 lb toddler. I couldn't do it for long periods of time and could barely lift him some days. Now that I have a newborn, it's still the same. I wear my youngest in a sling, but still can't carry both at the same time. If he wants to hold hands, that's fine, but there are plenty of times that he does NOT want to hold hands. Rather than have me holding his arm in the air and trying to keep ahold on his litle hand as he tries to pull away, I use the harness. My mom had an incident when my brother was younger after she had her 2nd child and he ended up in the hospital with an elbow injury from him yanking away and dropping to the ground while she desperately tried holding his hand in a busy parking lot. So, if holding hands works, great for you, but harnesses habe a lot more use than just keeping a child from running away.


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## TripMom (Aug 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katallen*
I hate children leashes and I am sorry if that word offends some people, but that is what they are whether they are attached to a nice backpack or a leash on a wrist that you hold onto, even my three year old knows that much and I have never pointed it out to her for fear that she would tactlessly point out children in them (which she now does anyways). They are also only good for keeping children from running away. They don't do anything that holding a child's hand or carrying them doesn't do. A child can still get into a lot of trouble with them in a store because they leave several feet of slack and if there is something very tantalizing to the child (like clothes on a hanger that need to be pulled off, a jar that looks cool, etc...) they will still have ample opportunity to do a lot of damage. The only thing they are good for is not letting the child run off but they couldn't do that in your arms or holding your hand and you are more aware of them when they are tugging your hand to get something then when they can reach something without tugging the leash.

I'll let you know if holding 3 hands is easier than 3 "tails" (leashes, whatever you want to call them)? My sense is no. Unfortunately, hands are connected to arms and bodies so they have the capability of being wriggled away by persistent toddlers who don't want to hold hands - "tails"/"leashes" however, are not.

My kids don't want to sit in the stroller anymore - they cry and struggle to get out -- so honestly, "leashes" seem like a great option. I just ordered mine and I hope they work.

Sorry if I am oh so offensive to some here . . . but perhaps if people walked a mile with other peoples "leashes" they would see differently.

And by the way, I don't think this is just a unique issue for people with multiples - I know children who are very active, think its fun to run or hide from their parents, won't sit in strollers or hold hands . . . I think leashes is a good safety option for them too -- and I don't judge them either.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

After avoiding leash threads like the plague, I feel compelled to finally post on one.

I think, that until every parent who is offended by leashes has:

an extremely persistent, energetic, enthusiastic, preverbal toddler that does NOT want to sit in a stroller, does NOT want to hold hands, does NOT want to be carried, does NOT want to hold onto the cart/stroller/linked rings or whatever other item, does NOT want to negotiate with you about staying close by but not holding hands, does NOT respond reliably to repeated reminders to stay close/etc., does NOT "get" numerous periodic attempts at practicing holding hands/staying close/etc., and is unable to control their natural (understandable) impulse to run away at any given time for any number of reasons,

that said offended parents should reserve judgment on another parent who is using one.

Personally, I don't use one because DS is OK being in a cart (or stroller when carts aren't available) 99.999999999% of the time....but if he wasn't, and my only choice was to have him walking around, I would definitely be using one, because on the periodic "test run" occasions when I do let him walk around with me in stores, thus far is has been hair raising; only by the grace of (insert your spiritual preference here) he hasn't pulled his arm out of socket while "holding my hand", or gotten plowed over by someone in a store, or gotten lost, or hit by a car in a parking lot. He just is not at a point where he's able to reliably, safely walk on his own. Period. And I'm not about to find out what the worst case scenario would be if I just let him go.

Sooo, we test it out every once in a while, and he's getting better, and we'll continue doing it in small doses until he really "gets" it. BUT - just having a glimpse of what my son is like occasionally, I would NEVER pass judgment on someone who was using a harness/leash/whatever the heck you want to call it - so long as the toddler looked happy to be in it, I would imagine that parent had a child much like mine, and it would be cruel to force them into a cart or stroller, near impossible to hold their hand, and tempting fate to let them simply run around on their own.

now, if the kid was miserable and/or the parent was otherwise unresponsive and uncaring towards the child, then I might have a problem with it, but my problem would be with their *parenting* skills, not the fact that they were using a leash.

Soo.....there you go. My 2 cents' worth. Now nobody is gonna read this cause the thread is too old, but now I'll be able to copy and paste my response onto the next leash thread


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## K&B (Sep 14, 2006)

We have a dog backpack one that my daughter actually likes wearing. She still runs out into the parking lot or away from us, and so we have no problem using it. We also used it at Disney, and it was a lifesaver. Before I had kids I thought harnasses were the worst things ever...haha...but now I see how helpful they can be. I have to say I don't love the look of regular harnasses...the ones that look like a leash, but there are a lot of cute styles out there nowadays that don't look like they were meant for an animal.

Jen
Katie 1-11-04
Ben 9-3-06


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katallen*
I hate children leashes and I am sorry if that word offends some people, but that is what they are whether they are attached to a nice backpack or a leash on a wrist that you hold onto, even my three year old knows that much and I have never pointed it out to her for fear that she would tactlessly point out children in them (which she now does anyways). They are also only good for keeping children from running away. They don't do anything that holding a child's hand or carrying them doesn't do. A child can still get into a lot of trouble with them in a store because they leave several feet of slack and if there is something very tantalizing to the child (like clothes on a hanger that need to be pulled off, a jar that looks cool, etc...) they will still have ample opportunity to do a lot of damage. The only thing they are good for is not letting the child run off but they couldn't do that in your arms or holding your hand and you are more aware of them when they are tugging your hand to get something then when they can reach something without tugging the leash.


The word "leash" does not offend me. Your judgemental tone does.

Want to carry my 75 lb 7 yr old with Autism? Be my guest. As I stated earlier, I no longer have to use the harness/tether, because he does much better staying with me now. But, if he were to go through another period of running off, I would use one again. I also never let the slack go far. I kept him near me. I used the thing as a backup, because this child was and is strong enough to injure my hand/arm.

Walk a mile in my shoes and then you can judge.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katallen*
They are also only good for keeping children from running away. They don't do anything that holding a child's hand or carrying them doesn't do.

That's right. And, dd _hate_ holding hands and would pull loose from me. I certainly couldn't _carry_ her after a c-section. So...what's your point? I was only using it to keep her from running away - I certainly didn't think it would keep her out of store shelves or miraculously make her stop getting into things.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Well...that wasy funny. As I was submitting my last post, dd came up to me and said, "look - my harness - I'm going to wear it, and you can hold my tail, mommy". She hasn't worn it in...probably about 8 months.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

I think, that until every parent who is offended by leashes has:

an extremely persistent, energetic, enthusiastic, preverbal toddler that does NOT want to sit in a stroller, does NOT want to hold hands, does NOT want to be carried, does NOT want to hold onto the cart/stroller/linked rings or whatever other item, does NOT want to negotiate with you about staying close by but not holding hands, does NOT respond reliably to repeated reminders to stay close/etc., does NOT "get" numerous periodic attempts at practicing holding hands/staying close/etc., and is unable to control their natural (understandable) impulse to run away at any given time for any number of reasons,

that said offended parents should reserve judgment on another parent who is using one.

















We used one for a while between the ages of one and two. It's still in my diaper bag, but I don't think I've pulled it out in at least 6 months--DD is less impulsive and responds better to directions now. However, with a new walker who hated slings, strollers and holding hands, and was impulsive, fearless, and loved strangers--I needed it, period. It really saved the day when we were delayed at a packed airport over a holiday weekend for 5+ hours.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katallen*
The only thing they are good for is not letting the child run off but they couldn't do that in your arms or holding your hand and you are more aware of them when they are tugging your hand to get something then when they can reach something without tugging the leash.

Well when I was a kid, I hated holding hands with adults because it was really uncomfortable. Probably comfortable for the adult, but not for me with my arm straight up. I much preferred my harness - and boy was it needed, we lived in the city and I was queen of the runners


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Y'all are being ridiculous about this. I see judgmental posts on this website all the time. In fact, when you get right down to it, this website is about judging the mainstream way of doing things (formula feeding, circumcising, spanking, letting your baby cry it out...). So, your telling me that you are willing to judge the rest of the world regarding these bad parenting techniques but you take offence that someone judges you for putting your child on a leash??? Give me a break. I'm not sure which way I lean but there are definitely valid arguments against putting one's child on a leash and lashing out at people who suggest that this might not be a very humane thing to do to a child is pretty hypocritical given that this site is about natural family living.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp*
Y'all are being ridiculous about this. I see judgmental posts on this website all the time. In fact, when you get right down to it, this website is about judging the mainstream way of doing things (formula feeding, circumcising, spanking, letting your baby cry it out...). So, your telling me that you are willing to judge the rest of the world regarding these bad parenting techniques but you take offence that someone judges you for putting your child on a leash??? Give me a break. I'm not sure which way I lean but there are definitely valid arguments against putting one's child on a leash and lashing out at people who suggest that this might not be a very humane thing to do to a child is pretty hypocritical given that this site is about natural family living.


So we are hypocrites because people are basically telling us how inhumane we are to protect our children? Sure, if you are dragging your kid on one of those things, you are using it wrong. If you are relying ONLY on it to protect your child, then you are using it wrong. If your child is still getting into things because you are not watching him/her, you are using it wrong. If your child is miserable in it, yes, you are using it wrong. I am willing to admit people use things the wrong way all of the time. I am sure even slings can be used wrong.

But, to say we are ridiculous for how we feel, when you haven't walked a mile in our shoes, is totally out of line.


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## naturegirl7 (Jan 27, 2005)

I think that the $5 I spent on my harness was the best $5 I have ever spent.

I have the traditional harness and the cute backpack version - honestly we prefer the traditional one around here. We only use it when out in crowds or in in places where DS can run away and put himself into danger. After he started walking (11m), it was impossible to hold him or use any type of baby carrier - he FREAKS out. If held, he wiggles and throws himself backwards in an attempt to get down - resulting in several scary last minute catches as he hurled himself out of our arms and at the floor. At first he was content to hold our hands and only venture a few steps away - then he learned to run (at 13m). Because he is so young, he doesn't understand that he needs to stay by mommy and daddy - not when there is so much to explore right there in front of him.

After he ran away from me once, I was out buying a harness the next day. His safety is the most important thing. Especially cuz he thinks running away and having us chase him is a super fun game. Plus I don't have to pull him away from stuff, tell him no, or engage in a power struggle with him. DS loves it - he plays with it, and helps get it on. Cuz he knows he gets more freedom with it on. I try to hold his hand, but if he lets go and runs off, well he can only go so far. We encourage him to hold hands, and are redirecting him as needed while in the harness. I can control where he explores and how safe he is, while allowing him some independence I think it is a way to promote independence while still gently teaching safety and boundaries. IMO it is better than locking him into a stroller (which he NEVER went for) - a lot more work for us than a stroller, but more experience and learning for him.

We do get mix responses to it though - a few parents have asked where we bought it, a lot of older people stop us and tell us that they are so glad to see us using a harness, that they used one, and that is is good to see parents keeping their kids safe (that surprises me each time!) yet other people give us dirty looks and make nasty comments. Never do they have the nerve to actually say something directly to us, but loudly enough as they walk by or are standing nearby so that we hear them - about how only animals belong on leashes, etc. My ILs are horrified, but that is par for the course - they are horrified by everything we do. LOL


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## Synchro246 (Aug 8, 2005)

I haven't read the thread.

I use a ring sling that has been tightened to where it's just snug around his belly and it's spread out so that there isn't one particular point of tightness.
I hold on to the tail and he can walk further away from me than he could normally so he gets more freedom. If he gets tired or wants to be held I just turn the leash back into a sling.

I like it. I see nothing wrong with it as long as toddler leashes aren't used as another way to ignore the kid.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:

But, to say we are ridiculous for how we feel, when you haven't walked a mile in our shoes, is totally out of line.
Um, I happen to have a two-year old. I have a particularly difficult situation as I also do not believe in "stroller prison", so she generally just walks and only sits in the stroller or goes in the carrier is SHE feels like it. Who is anyone to say who has walked in whose shoes?


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp*
Um, I happen to have a two-year old. I have a particularly difficult situation as I also do not believe in "stroller prison", so she generally just walks and only sits in the stroller or goes in the carrier is SHE feels like it. Who is anyone to say who has walked in whose shoes?

My 7 yr old is too big for a stroller. Like I said before, I do not use a leash anymore. He no longer needs one. But, if he still bolted from me, like he did a couple of years ago, I sure would use one again.

You haven't walked in my shoes. I hope you never do.


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## naturegirl7 (Jan 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katallen*
I hate children leashes and I am sorry if that word offends some people, but that is what they are whether they are attached to a nice backpack or a leash on a wrist that you hold onto, even my three year old knows that much and I have never pointed it out to her for fear that she would tactlessly point out children in them (which she now does anyways). They are also only good for keeping children from running away. They don't do anything that holding a child's hand or carrying them doesn't do. A child can still get into a lot of trouble with them in a store because they leave several feet of slack and if there is something very tantalizing to the child (like clothes on a hanger that need to be pulled off, a jar that looks cool, etc...) they will still have ample opportunity to do a lot of damage. The only thing they are good for is not letting the child run off but they couldn't do that in your arms or holding your hand and you are more aware of them when they are tugging your hand to get something then when they can reach something without tugging the leash.

You described a leash/harness being used WRONGLY. My son is never allowed to run ahead, or attack displays. He is learning to walk near us, regardless of holding hands or not. As a parent, you control the amount of slack and distance you give the child - which varies in each situation.

But since you are so strongly opposed to them - what would you do with a son like mine???

My son is so independent and hates to be held back (cuz that is what it is to him!). He will literally throw himself backwards, pushing off our bodies with his feet and hands - hurling himself to the ground. He has thrown himself out of our arms numerous times, and it is only our fast responses that save him frombeing seriously injured.
When he doesn't want his hand held, he pulls so hard he has caused subluxations of his shoulder and upper spine. Not a good thing considering he had Erb's palsy in his shoulder and arm from birth, and normal functioning abilities is only maintained via chiropractic adjustments and proper alignment of said areas. He would probably dislocate his elbow or shoulder but we let go of him before he can hurt himself.
He becomes hysterical when locked in a stroller or bound in a carrier against his will - like I imagine any innocently jailed prisoner would. He loves the carriers on his own terms, and I want to keep that love strong - as well as his trust in me nuturing him and loving him. I refuse to disrespect his feelings and his personal space for my own convenience.

What SAFE solution do you propose? What is a BETTER alternative to a leash for my son?


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## Elyra (Aug 19, 2006)

You should go back and read all of TinkerBelle's posts in this thread! She explains her circumstances.

ETA: Post #87


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:

They are also only good for keeping children from running away.
They also keep strangers from snatching them in the split second that mom's attention is on the debit card machine as she pays for her groceries.

Quote:

They don't do anything that holding a child's hand or carrying them doesn't do.
They provide a child a sense of freedom and independance. My son hates it when I hold his hand and pulls away all the time, not necessarily to run off but just because it makes him feel like he is being guided/controlled. Moreover, it hurts my back to have to lean down a bit to keep hold of his hand, and then I have to chase after him when he wiggles free. Many children, especially recently mobile ones, do not like to be held and are much happier walking around, even on a leash, than screaming because mommy will not put them down to run. Holding a child's hand or carrying them may keep them safe and help guide them but does not provide freedom or independance, but you guide, teach, and discipline a harnessed child as well. The harness does many things for my child that the stroller, sling, or hand holing cannot do.

Quote:

they will still have ample opportunity to do a lot of damage
The point of the leash isn't to control the damage they could do in a store, but to keep them from running away on an uncontrollable impulse or being snatched by a stranger. You can do damage control by redirecting your child, by taking their hand or speaking to them. That is not what the leash is for.

Quote:

you are more aware of them when they are tugging your hand to get something then when they can reach something without tugging the leash.
I'm quite aware of my son when he is on the leash just as much as I am when I'm holding his hand or carrying him. At least on the leash he isn't screaming or crying and feels free and independant, can exercise, and I have my hands free to give him care or to carry my bags out of the grocery store. He can reach something holding my hand just as easily as when he's on the leash. Yes, he's more free to do damage on the leash; however, that can be controlled with words, redirection, and other guidance.

I think of the harness as an extra safety device for my independant son as he stretches his legs in these early years.

Quote:

And, what does leashes and spanking have in common??
I'm wondering this as well. While spanking is ineffective and harmful, using a harness doesn't do harm to a child and is quite effective at preventing the child from running towards a strange dog or being snatched by a child predator.

Quote:

On an older child, I think that leashes, like spankings, are degrading and show a lack of respect for the child.
I agree, unless it's a child that has been ordered to be tethered to mom by a judge (let's hope that doesn't happen to our kids, eh!?!) or a child with disabilities.


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## pfamilygal (Feb 28, 2005)

We use an O'Pair occassionally when our 3 y/o is in a running off mood. I have a 2 yr old on my back and the 5 month old on my front. So I really don't give a rat's patootie if someone else doesn't like the way it looks or thinks it's wrong. I want a safe child. And sometimes she doesn't seem interested in staying with Mama. She likes it though. Hers is a froggie and she loves froggies. And the O'Pair (two fanny packs: the tongue on my froggie comes out and clips onto hers) doesn't look as bad as some others. But in the end, it's my kid, so if someone doesn't like it they can MTOB.







:


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

Quote:

So, your telling me that you are willing to judge the rest of the world regarding these bad parenting techniques but you take offence that someone judges you for putting your child on a leash???
Give ME a break. The difference is that those techniques are bad and have been proven harmful. Whether or not leashes are harmful is a matter of opinion, and there are no facts proving that they are harmful or that it is a bad parenting technique while there are many facts proving that CIO, FF, etc. are harmful.

I don't see anything wrong with using a leash on a child with autism, even if they are 7. I would have no problem if someone used a leash on me if it was necessary, if I had I was impaired--even if I was 35. I'd want people to protect me as best they could. Dragging me on a harness would bother me, but using one to keep me safe would not. There are a lot of things that we don't like having to do or having done to us that are necessary. My son hates hand-holding a lot more than he does his leash, so my choice is obvious. I see no difference between guiding and 'imprisoning' a child by carrying, strolling, or hand-holding and by using a harness. A harness provides a lot more freedom than any of those other options.

Quote:

I think, that until every parent who is offended by leashes has:

an extremely persistent, energetic, enthusiastic, preverbal toddler that does NOT want to sit in a stroller, does NOT want to hold hands, does NOT want to be carried, does NOT want to hold onto the cart/stroller/linked rings or whatever other item, does NOT want to negotiate with you about staying close by but not holding hands, does NOT respond reliably to repeated reminders to stay close/etc., does NOT "get" numerous periodic attempts at practicing holding hands/staying close/etc., and is unable to control their natural (understandable) impulse to run away at any given time for any number of reasons,

that said offended parents should reserve judgment on another parent who is using one.
BRAVO


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## pfamilygal (Feb 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp*
Um, I happen to have a two-year old. I have a particularly difficult situation as I also do not believe in "stroller prison", so she generally just walks and only sits in the stroller or goes in the carrier is SHE feels like it. Who is anyone to say who has walked in whose shoes?

A toddler is different from multiples. Or special needs kids. I have 4 kids under 6. Some days it's like wrangling cats.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

Then you need a quadruple stroller or two extra arms so you can avoid treating your four human babies like dogs by allowing them safety and independance with a harness! I want four kids eventually so when you locate the quadruple stroller or find a diet that allows a mom to grow extra arms please let me know! 

A toddler is different from multiples, but depending on the situation, raising one and keeping one safe is still very difficult. Any helping hands are...well...helpful!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp*
Um, I happen to have a two-year old. I have a particularly difficult situation as I also do not believe in "stroller prison", so she generally just walks and only sits in the stroller or goes in the carrier is SHE feels like it. Who is anyone to say who has walked in whose shoes?

A year ago, I was in the same situation, except that I also had a newborn and a surgical incision. DD was _always_ happy to go for a walk in her harness, but was not happy to hold hands or be put in a stroller.

Are you saying that finding a way to honour my dd's need to roam and explore her environment, while also keeping her safe, is harmful? My options were to either keep her home all day, every day for about six weeks, or to put the harness on her and take her to the farm to pet bunnies and feed ducks. I'll admit that I could have kept her home, and it certainly would have been _much_ easier for me, but I didn't think that was really very fair to her...


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## lonestarmommy (Jun 3, 2006)

I haven't read all the posts to see if it's already been mentioned but...
this thread reminds me of the SNL skit with Mike Meyers and Nicole Kidman "The Hyper Hypo"

OMG that was hilarious!!







:

http://snl.jt.org/detail.php?i=5042

(that could easily be a parody of my 2 yr. old on chocolate too







:


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## jul511riv (Mar 16, 2006)

wow. I just came on here to read the opinions and I must say I'm shocked at how a "civil" discussion suddently got fowl when someone came on and didn't agree with the way you do things.

This was not a "pro-harnass post" from what I can see from the OP. It was a genuine "how do you feel about this" and because of that, EVERYONE should be entitled to state their opinions.

To some women (who HAVE very active children, I may add) they truly do feel that this is abusive or boarders on abusive or disrespectful. I understand how that may hurt those of us that DO use a harnass, because we don't want to be seen as abusive or disrespectful and DEFINATELY feel that we are NOT being hurtful and disrespectful to our children, and thus we have a knee jerk emotional response to the posters who disagree with us and begin to attack them. I get that. But truly, their feelings are JUST as vaild and they SHOULD have a place to present them on this thread.

There is also a way to refute their arguments gently, while still being respectful of them and their point of view.

Obviously putting your child on a "leash" or whatever you call it opens a potential for disrespect (other things do as well, of course) of the child. I think it is this potential that bothers/concerns some people and that is why they, personally, choose not to use them. That should absolutely be respected, ESPICALLY in this forum, since we all SHOULD be coming from a place of respect for children. Using a harnass should not let any of us forget that...that we are all trying to figure out what is best and most respectful for/to children.

Bottom line is that each parent has to make a decision for their children that suits their families best. For some families, this "leash" would be TOTALLY inappropriate. Even a wonderful AP could potentially begin to see their child as a "dog" because they are on the leash, or absent-mindedly pull on the leash as a way to train their children to walk nearby, which may or may not be acceptable to some of you on this thread.

I think the OP opened up a good topic for conversation and for parents who are unsure about the issue, it really helps to be able to safely discuss the pros and cons and concerns about these issues with other parents, which I think is what this thread was supposed to be about. I feel like now it's a bully pulpit of sorts for "pro-leashing" kids and suddenly people who have concerns about this and want to make their voice known (notice, orginally this person wasn't attacking anyone in particular, just stating her opinion) are being slammed around and the healthy debate and respect that one mother should have for another has ended.

It's upsetting and should be food for thought for all of us.


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## lilylove (Apr 10, 2003)

Please keep the UA (particularly the quoted section below) in mind when posting.
Lets keep this civil and on the boards.









Quote:

Posting in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, namecalling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.
http://www.mothering.com/mdc/mdc_useragreement.html


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

Quote:

There is also a way to refute their arguments gently, while still being respectful of them and their point of view.
My problem was not with her point of view. It was with the tone. I know that there are bad ways to use the device, but that goes for a lot of other safety options. A toddler screaming and trying to get out of a stroller, or a sling, or trying to pull his hand away while you hold tight. I don't think anyone here has said they use one in a negative way or that it's even an everyday thing. But some people feel that there are times when it's needed for the safety of their child. I'm not pro "leash" just pro safety.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jul511riv*
I understand how that may hurt those of us that DO use a harnass, because we don't want to be seen as abusive or disrespectful and DEFINATELY feel that we are NOT being hurtful and disrespectful to our children, and thus we have a knee jerk emotional response to the posters who disagree with us and begin to attack them. I get that. But truly, their feelings are JUST as vaild and they SHOULD have a place to present them on this thread.

I'm sorry, but this:

Quote:

They are also only good for keeping children from running away. They don't do anything that holding a child's hand or carrying them doesn't do. A child can still get into a lot of trouble with them in a store because they leave several feet of slack and if there is something very tantalizing to the child (like clothes on a hanger that need to be pulled off, a jar that looks cool, etc...) they will still have ample opportunity to do a lot of damage. The only thing they are good for is not letting the child run off but they couldn't do that in your arms or holding your hand and you are more aware of them when they are tugging your hand to get something then when they can reach something without tugging the leash.
assumes that any mom using a harness isn't paying attention to their child. Saying that kids have "ample opportunity to do a lot of damage" and "you are more aware of them when they're tugging your hand" are not about liking or disliking a harness. They're about making assumptions about how the harness is being used, and what the mother is or isn't doing while the child is in a harness. Making the assumption that I don't pay attention to my child just because I found a harness to be the best tool at one point is insulting and offensive.

When I had dd in the harness, I paid _very_ close attention to her. I had to make sure I stayed close, because otherwise she could fall from tugging against the harness...and I had to stay close, because I couldn't run after her without injuring myself.

People are entitled to dislike harnesses. That doesn't mean they're entitled to make assumptions about why people are using them.

I also won't call them leashes. I associate leashes with pets, and dd isn't a pet. If others can use that term without that association, more power to them.


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
I'm sorry, but this:

assumes that any mom using a harness isn't paying attention to their child. Saying that kids have "ample opportunity to do a lot of damage" and "you are more aware of them when they're tugging your hand" are not about liking or disliking a harness. They're about making assumptions about how the harness is being used, and what the mother is or isn't doing while the child is in a harness. Making the assumption that I don't pay attention to my child just because I found a harness to be the best tool at one point is insulting and offensive.

When I had dd in the harness, I paid _very_ close attention to her. I had to make sure I stayed close, because otherwise she could fall from tugging against the harness...and I had to stay close, because I couldn't run after her without injuring myself.

People are entitled to dislike harnesses. That doesn't mean they're entitled to make assumptions about why people are using them.

I also won't call them leashes. I associate leashes with pets, and dd isn't a pet. If others can use that term without that association, more power to them.




















That's the tone I got from it, but couldn't quite articulate it.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

A lot of anti-harness people assume that the use of one means that the parents do not also teach and guide their child with words and redirection, keep an eye on their children, and prevent them from doing harm. That is one of the things about their opinions that bothers me most; it assumes that the mom is lazy and ONLY uses the harness, no other methods of discipline.

It was her tone and implied assumptions that caused the discussion to go fowl, not her disagreement. You can express how you feel or whether you use them or not without assuming that a harness user uses no other methods to discipline their kids or acting as though everyone abuses them. Regardless, no one here is being insulting, and the discussion is still pretty civil--just more of a debate now. We have every right to respond to something someone says with our own rebuttals. She stated her opinion and her reasoning; we stated our opposing view. That a leash opens a potential for disprespect doesn't mean that disrespect is inevitably present. I don't know of anyone who begins seeing their child as a dog because of a leash, so that statement seems unfounded.

I think it is good to hear others opinions...but it is also good to discuss them. You cannot reach people without occasionally disagreeing. Moreover, correcting misinformation someone posts as fact is not rude, just as having an opinion isn't rude; your tone and the way you words things are much more important. I haven't seen anyone slamming anyone around either.


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I have a harness for my DS, it works a ton better than holding his hand...you walk around either stooped over at 19-month old toddler level or hold your hand above your head for a while, see how you like it.

I love and respect my child enough to give him a little bit of freedom and independence without risking his safety. IMO thats what good attachment parenting is all about, knowing your child well enough to know what kind of interaction they need. My son NEEDS to be able to explore. I will not risk him being kidnapped or pulled under the wheel of an SUV because I had to blink.


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## Shahbazin (Aug 3, 2006)

I appreciate the links to the backpack harnesses







I intend to get one to have on hand. BTW, I have my dogs on leashes when we go out in public, & I certainly don't drag them around (considering they weigh 125-150 lbs, the dragging would likely be more in their favor anyhow, if they weren't trained!) My dogs are smart, & they know the rules (walk politely, stay next to me, don't jump on people, no grabbing things off shelves), but they can't speak up if lost, don't always reason out dangerous cause/effect results, don't have much traffic sense, & I don't want to gamble their lives w/traffic & an off-the-wall impulse... hmm, sounds like some little kids!


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## heidi_m (May 5, 2006)

WOW, took awhile to read through all of this... glad I started at the beginning so I didn't feel the need to rip on anyone for matters I clearly don't understand!









Since the OP did ask for thoughts, I figured I'd mention that we have one that is the harness-type, that I have only used a couple of times for when I had to fly home, pregnant, with my very active toddler, for my grandfather's funeral. DH is in grad school and could not take the time off. DD was at a point where she didn't want to be in a stroller and would throw a fit; she was content being able to "do it herself" and not have to hold my hand, and I felt she was safe and I could waddle along at my pace without having to worry about her writhing away from me in her quest for independence.


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## theirmomjayne (Mar 21, 2006)

I have used them before. Allowed my toddler to walk like he wanted to, but the leash gave me the "extra arm" that I needed!


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## gen_here (Dec 31, 2005)

We got the doggy backpack/harness for my son when we first visited a big city and wanted to let our new-to-walking son stretch his legs when we were visiting an aquarium. At that age, it didn't work very well - but he loved having the dog to play with!

Now we are in the middle of a vacation where he used "Doggie" in a major airport. The backpack part was perfect for holding a family picture and a little note paper with his name, our name and cell number, his grandmother's phone number in our city of origin and his grandparents' number in our destination city. Why? We wanted to make sure that he was identifiable (and so were we) if he broke away from us or was stolen. We had him either in our arms or walking holding our hands the entire time - we never had any intention of letting him roam around freely (he's 19 months). Thankfully, we never had to use the info in his backpack on the first half of the trip. But for our peace of mind, I'm glad he had it and will have it for the return trip.

We only used it in the airports, he hasn't had it on him since on this trip (other than when he requests "Doggie" in the car to hug on - but he's not strapped into it). It's just another level of security for us and a little bit of freedom for him in a busy place. I'm really glad we have it!


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

I didn't read the whole thread b/c i know the debate..but I ddid use for DD in airports and in Disney world so she could explore and not be trapped in a stroller. also we did NOT use one on her to keep her from running off b/c she isn't that kind of kid. We used it b/c she could wander off easily or be stolen in airport while I was busy with a ticket agent or such. My DS dosn't walk yet but his tempermnt leads me to beleive he may be a runner nd he may need to be in one for other resons. I honestly think MOST moms agree that whatever is needed to keep them safe is best. I never got a dirty look.
Not even when DD played doggie while wearing it


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

LOL! She played doggie? That's too funny. I can't believe you didn't get any dirty looks for that. If you don't get any negative comments on this board because of that I'll be shocked. I have a sister who has a puppy dog outfit she likes to wear. Imagine how funny it would be if she wore it to the mall and was on the leash, playing doggy. She's having fun and is happy; mom is enjoying a shopping spree...and I can just see all the onlookers, some of them pointing and giggling and understanding...and some of them unable to contain their fury at how this smiling child is being 'demeaned' by being dressed as a dog, put on a leash, and then allowed to bark in the mall. *eyeroll*


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp*
I would think that this kind of treatment, like spanking, is humiliating and demeaning to an older child, for whom we should have enough respect to teach him or her proper behaviour on the street, rather than controlling his bodily movement as one would with an animal.

I guess my point is, what if your child is just not getting the teaching? How much time is one to spend teaching a child proper behavior? I'm not asking for an answer to that, an actual time frame; I'd just hope you could consider that just because a parent is using a harness/leash it doesn't mean that they aren't teaching their child; maybe their child just isn't developmentally, or temperamentally, or intellectually able to get it and the parent is taking time to teach them, but until they reliably get it they want to have a back up instead of worrying their child will be unjured or worse.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Threads like this amuse me. It's funny (in a you gotta laugh or you'll cry sort of way) to see how judgemental some people are without knowing others' circumstances. Ah, to be naieve and free to judge mercilessly as I was before I had an autistic child....







:

Special needs kids just change your life in so many unexpected ways.








:


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs*
I guess my point is, what if your child is just not getting the teaching? How much time is one to spend teaching a child proper behavior? I'm not asking for an answer to that, an actual time frame; I'd just hope you could consider that just because a parent is using a harness/leash it doesn't mean that they aren't teaching their child; maybe their child just isn't developmentally, or temperamentally, or intellectually able to get it and the parent is taking time to teach them, but until they reliably get it they want to have a back up instead of worrying their child will be unjured or worse.

You see, that is what really hacks me off. Some assume that just because some of us use the leash/harness/whatever, that we are just not teaching our children properly, or that we are lazy. I do my best with my son. He is also taught in school. Part of their curriculum is life skills. But, you know, until that child makes the connection, they are going to do exactly what they want to do. Like with potty training. I did potty training with my Autistic son from age 2 on, when he showed interest. It took me until he was FIVE YEARS OLD. It was not because I was "lazy" or my parenting skills sucked lemons. It was because he didn't "get it". Same with using the harness. I didn't want to use one. But, the child would NOT stay by me, would bolt suddenly. He was too big to tote around, too big for a stroller, and would wrench my arm getting away from me. He did not like to hold hands. I didn't have a bunch of people at my beck and call to help me with him and my other child.

Sometimes you do what you have to do to stay safe, even if you don't care to do it.

Like I keep saying. Live a day in my life, or the life of someone else who has used the harness for good reason. Then you can sit on the high horse and judge us.

I don't mind debate and respectful banter. But, someone telling us we are ridiculous, and someone else saying that using a harness is akin to beating a child, and some other rather rude commentary, is not respectful, nor does it help in any way.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

As I said, human beings should be masters of their own bodies except in exceptional circumstances.
So are you opposed to slings? What's less confining--a sling or a harness?

This conversation always makes me crazy because it is so obviously about adult perceptions, not logic and facts. Does it make any sense for someone to smile at me while I am confining a child in a sling but to give me a dirty look when I am confining my child in a harness? (By the way, my child would not tolerate the sling once she could walk, but happily asked for her harness, knowing it gave her freedom.)


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## umsami (Dec 1, 2003)

I hated them until I had a very active toddler.







We used a monkey backpack toddler leash (bought at Target, available at Wal-Mart too... $10-$15) on him whenever we flew. It was great. He had "freedom", looked cute, but was slightly restrained. I had a hand free to push his brother in the stroller. Eventually, my son became too strong and Mr. Monkey's tail ripped off. My Mom repaired it, but it didn't hold. We'll probably buy another one for my youngest once he becomes more explorer-bound.

It was both for safety and convenience (for me). Mainly used it while travelling... although my son "liked" wearing his backpack... so we'd let him wear it and carry toys in it without the leash.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

This thread is being re-opened. Please keep the UA in mind when posting.

~Heartmama


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
So are you opposed to slings? What's less confining--a sling or a harness?

Not at all. We have a babycarrier and sometimes still use it with our 2-year old. But if she starts squirming out of it, down she goes. I only use it now when she is in a real "I just want my mommy" mood and needs the closeness.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp*
...there are definitely valid arguments against putting one's child on a leash and lashing out at people who suggest that this might not be a very humane thing to do to a child...

I completely missed this. What "valid arguments" are there against the use of "leashes"? How is it not "very humane" to allow my dd to go out and have fun, when she'd have otherwise been confined to the house?


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

As another gentle reminder, I would like to remind everyone that what might seem like a prison to one might feel like a ticket to freedom to another









I would ask you each to assume that each poster here knows her/his child best, and by virtue of posting here, is motivated and interested in making gentle, loving, nurturing choices that best meet everyone's need for safety, security and exploration. Thanks for your considerate participation.

Proceed gently


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## Wugmama (Feb 10, 2005)

Before I had kids I used to think they looked odd in use - and not in a good way. My aunt had twins and said she had one for each girl, used them once in a grocery store, and got so many dirty looks she dropped them in the trash can on her way out of the store.

When my dd was about 2 she did NOT want to be in the stoller (this was before I learned about the joys of baby-wearing) and did NOT want to hold my hand. Nor did she want to walk along side of me. My mom bought a kid harness, and tried it first and said it went well. I was doubtful, but my dd was happy to wear it. She was then free to run at the mall (with me practically running behind) and I didn't have to be afraid of her getting lost or abducted. I woudn't have forced it on her though.

Boy, I am the type of mom without a lot of confidence and I easily get upset by criticisims from others her. But this is one topic that the critics won't bother me on, because I know for our situation it was just right as rain, no doubt. It was one of those things that reinforced the don't judge another until you've walked a mile in their shoes either (meaning the way I thought about it before I had kids).

I try to lean towards CL too, and really this was the most mutually agreeable solution by far for us at the time.









~Tracy


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

We have a babycarrier and sometimes still use it with our 2-year old. But if she starts squirming out of it, down she goes.
Sure. And if my DD ever protested the harness (I can only think of one time), off it came.









Are you perhaps claiming that you never used the sling for your convenience, but only because your DD expressed a desire to be close? I suppose that's consistent--but would you really look down your nose at a mama who placed an unprotesting, happy toddler into a carrier at an airport to make it easier to keep the child safe and to get around? Replace the word "carrier" with the word "harness." What's the difference?

Do you feel the same way about strollers, too? Do you have the same reaction to seeing a child in a stroller as you do to seeing one on a harness? If not, why not?


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Well, it sure seems the majority of moms choose to use them and the kids enjoy them. I think poeple without children look askance more than those who do and if you don't have kids...you just don't know. As with anythitng you choose for your kids someone will disagree. so amny of us have heard things lke, "the baby is too hot in the sling" "you shouldn't hold all day" "Let him cry" and we choose our own path b/c we know our children better. We know what's best for them...let the naysayers squawk but my children are safe.
Many years ago a horrible horrible thing happned in England and the sales of harnesses skyrocketed to protect kids for an awful fate that happend to another child. I can't tell the story b/c it is so sickeknning it keeps me up at night if I get it in my head but beleive me that mother wishes her kid had been harnessed. I wish he had been too. If you're kid is safer in one...please don't let anyone tell you it is non AP or degrading...it is not. Keep your kids safe.


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

Yep, I've heard that story and it's really sad. I'll take my chances with a harness.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

VERY well-said!!!


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## Synchro246 (Aug 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipumpkins*
Well, it sure seems the majority of moms choose to use them and the kids enjoy them. I think poeple without children look askance more than those who do and if you don't have kids...you just don't know. As with anythitng you choose for your kids someone will disagree. so amny of us have heard things lke, "the baby is too hot in the sling" "you shouldn't hold all day" "Let him cry" and we choose our own path b/c we know our children better. We know what's best for them...let the naysayers squawk but my children are safe.
Many years ago a horrible horrible thing happned in England and the sales of harnesses skyrocketed to protect kids for an awful fate that happend to another child. I can't tell the story b/c it is so sickeknning it keeps me up at night if I get it in my head but beleive me that mother wishes her kid had been harnessed. I wish he had been too. If you're kid is safer in one...please don't let anyone tell you it is non AP or degrading...it is not. Keep your kids safe.

Thanks for that post









I think this is a good place for me to stop reading this thread.

Bye


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

_Do you feel the same way about strollers, too? Do you have the same reaction to seeing a child in a stroller as you do to seeing one on a harness? If not, why not?_

Haven't read the whole thread, but I think I can guess what is going on. I think it's interesting that strollers always seem to be untouchable. I guess b/c they're just mainstream and accepted, even though they can be abused and overused too. It also comes up when people criticize babywearing an "older" child (including babies who can't even walk)- slings are weird but strollers are fine! I have attachable packs. I haven't used it yet b/c I've just avoided crowed places if I'm not with another adult. But I'm glad to have it, should I feel like I need it.

eta: Okay not to get all morbidly curious, but I'm wondering how a tragedy could have inspired harnesses sales, vs. just inspring people to be super careful in public, around strangers, in parking lots or in crowds, etc.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:

Do you feel the same way about strollers, too? Do you have the same reaction to seeing a child in a stroller as you do to seeing one on a harness? If not, why not?
The stroller is for when *DD* does not feel like walking. We don't do stroller prison and I am vehemently against it, perhaps more so than harnesses and leashes. Forcing a child constantly to remain in a stroller creates passive, lazy children.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

Well, I also use the stroller when DS cannot walk. For example, DH had a job interview and couldn't stay with DS during my ob/gyn appointment. DS walked around in the waiting area, but as I had my IUD removed, he sat in his stroller. That kept him safe from anything potentially dangerous in the room as well as the room safe from him. What other option did I have...to pull the IUD out myself in the tub? My son doesn't like a lot of things, like diaper changes, but that's not how I base my decisions for him. If I have to chose between carrying him as he screams and using a harness, of which others disapprove but which bothers him a lot less than the sling and stroller, then I'm going to do that. I will not however avoid using safety devices altogether simply because he doesn't feel like using any of them, and considering he rarely wants to hold my hand, be carried or worn or strolled, and isn't capable yet of controlling his urges...I chose the harness most of the time because, while he may not like it as much as he'd like running into the street, he likes it more than the other options, such as being carried around or being made to stay at home.


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

I enjoy "walking" my daughters. They enjoy it too. I've heard comments and recieved giggles, but you know what? I don't care







just like I don't paticularily care if moms on MDC like or DON'T like harnesses/leashes.
My kids are safe and won't be the victims of kidnappings in public, under any circumstances, cause they are 'chained' to me.
Harneshes and leashes are almost the greatest thing next to the umbillicle cord for mama's who have 'spirited' kids who don't quite comprehend english yet


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## darsmama (Jul 23, 2004)

Oh, and I got the cute little bear backpack leash/harness at Target for $10


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## roisin84 (Sep 7, 2006)

For me, a harness was great! When my middle boy was about 18months to 2, he liked to walk - but hated hand holding. So my rule was if we're somewhere busy, walking by a road etc, he either held my hand or sat in his stroller. Of course he refused to do either - at that age he didn't really make the connection that he had a choice between one or the other, and he couldn't just run off where ever he wanted (he had NO fear of getting lost, or of traffic at that age). We got a harness and the problem was solved, everyone was happy, and no more screaming and tantrums every time we left the house.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

I just have to add one more thing...you are not treating your children like dogs when you leash them. Dogs are treated like children when you put them on a leash. A dog is an animal meant to be wild and free running. We leash them b/c we've domesticated them and made them family...we treat dogs like children when we put sweaters and boots and leashes on them. We want to protect our dogs b/c they are like children to us. (well by "us" i mean those of you that have dogs)


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipumpkins*
I just have to add one more thing...you are not treating your children like dogs when you leash them. Dogs are treated like children when you put them on a leash. A dog is an animal meant to be wild and free running. We leash them b/c we've domesticated them and made them family...we treat dogs like children when we put sweaters and boots and leashes on them. We want to protect our dogs b/c they are like children to us. (well by "us" i mean those of you that have dogs)

Exactly.


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## BookGoddess (Nov 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut*

eta: Okay not to get all morbidly curious, but I'm wondering how a tragedy could have inspired harnesses sales, vs. just inspring people to be super careful in public, around strangers, in parking lots or in crowds, etc.

I believe that mama was referring to the tragic Jamie Bulger case in *********, England. You can google it and find all the details. Just thinking about it again makes me so sad. The 2 year old was out with his mother when she was momentarily distracted. He was taken by two older children. A video surveillence camera caught the kidnapping. Little Jamie was forced to walk along a train tracks, brutually tortured (won't mention the details. They make me physically sick







) and his body left on train tracks so that it would be dismembered.

Even the most alert mama out there can be distracted. We're all human. I would rather DD be in a toddler harness than go through what poor little Jamie's mama went through.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

I agree. My dogs are like my children. I leash them because I love them. They cannot control all of their impulses no matter how well-trained they are. I don't want them running away, getting lost or hurt, or getting snatched. I use the harness with my son for those same reasons. That doesn't mean my dogs are on the same heart level as my son, but it is pretty close. I give my dogs peanut butter cookies sometimes because they like them. I'm not going to refrain from giving my son cookies becuase my dogs enjoy them too, and I'm treating the one like the other if they both get something.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I found that on the net- it is truly horrifying. I'm trying not to think about it. I still just find it curious that the public came to embrace harnesses more after that as opposed to just awareness at the horrendous possibilities.

So how do you all use them? Just for shopping trips? Public outings? I got mine just to have in case we went somewhere crowded in the city, for the occasional aquarium trip or something. Although I've just avoided those places unless I have my dh with me, and we keep vigilant watch on him, and I'm paranoid b/c I know we're all fallible. Now he is much better about running away, and doesn't mind the stroller and wants to be carried. I almost wonder if I should use it more often, but I can't take it _everywhere._ Maybe one can relax more if using it though (and I don't mean gingerly shoe shopping while Jr. waits, but it is hard for me sometimes to do things with my head turned and my eyes on him a few feet away at all times.) Today I got upset with him when he ran ahead to climb a wooden firetruck at a Christian-run apple-picking orchard. He was only twenty feet away, and it was a pretty safe environment, but it just scares me sometimes. Truly I just don't go to many crowded places with him. I guess a harness might make that more possible. I don't know if I could deal with dirty looks though. But so much bad stuff happens to kids sometimes. Just b/c it's not likely doesn't mean you want to take your chances. I think the public needs to just reassess their view of them and the occasional need for them.


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## Brigianna (Mar 13, 2006)

A tip for those who may want an alternative to a leash--what I used to do, and still occasionally do with ds, is take a length of ribbon or string and hold one end, and have him hold the other end. That way he stayed close and was also participating.


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## jul511riv (Mar 16, 2006)

I really like that idea. Thanks for the alternative.


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## janerose (May 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut*
I don't know if I could deal with dirty looks though.

Honestly, we've NEVER gotten a dirty look or comment. At least not within my hearing/viewing range. I asked my ILs who use it a bit more with her than we do (they're older & have a hard time chasing her) and they also said they've never gotten any negative comments or looks.

We have gotten lots of positive comments though. Especially on the style, because we use one of the dog backpack ones. It's rare that we use it & don't have someone make a remark about how cute is it, what a great idea, looks so much nicer than the regular ones, etc.

Holly


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

Quote:

So how do you all use them? Just for shopping trips? Public outings? I got mine just to have in case we went somewhere crowded in the city, for the occasional aquarium trip or something.
We usually use ours if it's just me going somewhere that's not stroller friendly, or if DS really wants to walk and not be in a stroller. If we're at the airport, a zoo, museum, etc... it's usually easier to use the harness. I keep the smaller on in my wrap.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Brigianna*
A tip for those who may want an alternative to a leash--what I used to do, and still occasionally do with ds, is take a length of ribbon or string and hold one end, and have him hold the other end. That way he stayed close and was also participating.

That's a good idea with some kids. It wouldn't have worked with dd, though...as soon as she got excited, she'd have dropped it and run.


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## Lisa Lubner (Feb 27, 2004)

The ribbon thing wouldn't work for my family either. Nice idea though!

I took the goo out yesterday for the first time in a harness yesterday. I asked her if she wanted to walk with the monkey or ride the stroller. She chose the monkey. We got a lot of smiles and "how cute" comments. We live right on the main street of our town, so it wouldn't take very long for any of my kids to run out in to the busiest street here. I'm thinking of getting the puppy for my 4 year old... Usually I would think that's too old, but she's sortof absent minded and wanders off in parking lots and into the street almost every time we're out... and no amount of gentle guidance seems to get through to her. She's a smart cookie, but her dad's side of the family are all like that.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

I use mine anywhere that isn't really busy or really dangerous where we will be for a bit and where he'll definitely want to walk, airports, malls, etc. For a trip to the dollar store or doctor's office he just holds my hand or goes in the stroller. He doesn't really like being carried or worn and never really did. I hope to wear #2!!!


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## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

We had a loooooong thread on this a while ago... someone may have linked to it already









I have no problem with harnesses as long as both parties are agreeable to it. If a child wants to walk and be able to wander a couple of feet from mama or whoever. doesn't want to hold hands, or be in a cart, or stroller and is _happy_ and _agreeable_ with a harness -- what is the big deal?

We found a ring sling works too ... the ringed part under our daughter's arms around her chest with me holding the tail --- it helped her a lot when she was a new walker and still unsure of herself --- we haven't used it since but if she is agreeable to a harness later on, it is not out of my toolbox.

Our goal in parenting (me and dh's that is) is to make sure our daughter is as safe, happy, comfortable, and free as she can be ... while at the same time making sure we as her parents feel safe, happy, and comfortable too ... if a harness meets her need to explore a couple of feet away and meets our need to know she is closeby and everyone is happy... I don't see the issue.

Though, this is coming from someone who is a very strict vegetarian and animal rights activist and wouldn't at all be insulted by someone comparing it to a *leash* --- my dog (who is not with us anymore







) got treated better than most people in my life did


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

Just wanted to add that treating children like dogs in my house is....well...probably the best treatment in the world.


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## Hatteras Gal (Jun 1, 2004)

I used my Moby wrap to keep me and dd together. I was traveling by plane with one layover with my 2 and 4 yo by myself. Dd2 was in a stroller, dd1 walked so I tied one end of the wrap around her waist and the other around mine. She was excited to 'be attached to Mommy.' It worked great and I got a lot of positive comments.
I wish I'd have taken it to the MN State Fair a few weeks ago. It was so crowded and busy, I lost dd1 briefly when a downpour started and we ran for cover. I thought she was with my friend and her family. Luckily she was up some steps, sitting quietly sucking her thumb.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

I don't believe in child leashes but I understand the fears & frustrations. My kids have whistles on their zipper pulls or on a carabiner clipped to their clothes. They stay with me but on the occasional time they've wandered off at a store or in a crowd, they know to stop and blow the whistle as long & loud as they can. My youngest has been able to do this since he was a very young 3 b/c we "practice" a lot & I used to reinforce it on every trip out. So, not a 100% preventive or a 100% safeguard but it works well for our family. I wish I could guarantee they would always stay velcroed to my side but I just can't.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I think they work really well for some families. I really wanted to be able to use one on one of my boys in particular, but it was really much more trouble than it was worth.

I didn't want to use one out of kidnapping fears, so much as I had a bolter for awhile, and didn't feel that it was right to restrict the other two from going places. The problem was the clothesline effect when he did bolt! We had to solve things by either having dad schedule to come with us, or be available to watch my little runner while I took the other two came with me. Luckily DS didn't stay in that phase for too long, and they all hold hands nicely and walk with me.

I still sometimes get that zing of panic if one gets separated in a really crowded place (for us it tends to be the foyer of our church right after service lets out), or in a 'public place' like the kids' museum or zoo. So I got them matching VERY BRIGHT tie dye outfits for the public outings, and my smallish church is very friendly and kind to both me and my kids and will help me navigate through crowded pathways and my kids now understand that if they get separated from me to meet at the cookie table.









To me it's just a tool. Some people can use it, other people can't/won't...it's all good. I assume that no mama here would abuse it, and just about anything can be used as an instrument of abuse (including our hands) so just because someone's seen it used wrong once or twice doesn't mean that NOBODY can use it in a respectful way.


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
So I got them matching VERY BRIGHT tie dye outfits for the public outings,









:
YES I dress them in matching screaming loud shirts when we're in busy places.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

The whistle idea is great!!!!


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Yes we own a toddler harness a puppy dog one that our 3 year old play with all the time. We don't use it much shes not really a runner just in really crowded long outtings. Last time I used it was in the airport to keep her safely with me for the 3 hour wait (we traveled right after they forbid the liquids thig so loooong security waits) juggling her a carry one and her carseat. Other places weve used it include the zoo a museum in another state and a very crowded confrence.


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## GuavaLava (Nov 15, 2004)

I admit the sight of a child in a harness still seems strange to me. Maybe it's because I don't like dogs??









Seriously, I contemplated using one but opted for the sling around dd's waist, when needed. I was too cheap.

DD was/is prone to nursemaid's elbow. I've had it happen when we were standing still and she decided to plop down on the ground (while still holding my hand) beside me while I was distracted. Her arm went limp instantly









When we were in busy places (and "away" from home, like at an airport or on vacation) we used the sling around her waist. I cringed at the thought of her with a limp arm until we could get her to a doctor.

If she had been younger, I would have probably bought a harness. I'll take dirty looks over explaining to a strange physician why my daughter's arm won't move. I was never confident or brave enough to fix her arm myself.


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## tiffer23 (Nov 7, 2005)

I haven't read the other posts, so who knows if I'm just saying what everyone else has already said. lol.

Personally, I hope I don't have to use one. I don't like how they look. But I see absolutely nothing wrong with them at all. If it keeps your child happy, and SAFE, what could be better? Sometimes their little arms start hurting because your arm is so high for them to reach, and the harness lets them explore safely.


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## mackysmama (Jan 11, 2005)

I've used a sling around the waist a handful of times, when we were in very crowded walking conditions (festivals, etc.) and they didn't want to be carried in the sling. To me, it is no different than using a harness but I wouldn't buy/use a harness because of the reactions I'd expect from others. There's been lots of times, especially with my 2nd (who is 14 months and not the walk-quietly-next-to-mama kind of kid) where I just scoop her up and put her on my hip in the sling, especially when I need to keep up with her brother (4 yo) or when she is getting into too many dangerous situations. I also don't see much of a difference between that and a harness, except a harness would give her some mobility. Of course, if she is wiggling to get out of the sling than I put her down but that often means we have to leave wherever we are, which sucks for and isn't fair to her brother. She is used to the sling and likes it and has a positive association with it so often doesn't complain when I put her in it. I imagine the same is true for a lot of children who regularly use harnesses - they have a positive association. I see lots of kids in backpacks, slings, wraps, etc. and they are all being contained by these "AP friendly" contraptions and we look fondly on them when, really, the kid is being more contained then if a harness was used.

There have been times that I've seen harnesses being used in a way that makes me uncomfortable but I try to always assume there is more than I see - I have no idea what kind of day/kid/life that parent has so who am I to judge? And in those situations, it wasn't the product that made me uncomfortable, but how it was being used.


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## DesertFlower (Oct 20, 2004)

Although I can understand how some parents can be driven to using a leash on their toddlers, I choose not to do that.


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## CyberTimber (Sep 21, 2006)

I have toddler twins and an infant son, and all three have the little animal backpacks! (Okay, my son doesn't realize this yet, but his is waiting for him when he walks a little better).

I let my girls have them to play around the house with, and they learned to buckle and unbuckle them (about 14 mos). I wear my son in a pack-frame, and the girls think it's a hoot to wear their "kids" on their backs too. I know I got lucky, but they really do love them, and will find them in the van and put them on themselves.

I've also noticed that when they wear them, the realize that they need to be on their best behavior and automatically stick their hands up and wait for me to hold on before we walk, and this has really started to translate well when I have them "off-lead" as it were =).


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## roisin84 (Sep 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Elfine* 
Although I can understand how some parents can be driven to using a leash on their toddlers, I choose not to do that.

I wasn't 'driven' to using it, I chose it.


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## roisin84 (Sep 7, 2006)

I thought it was an odd choice of word - like you're driven to something desperate, which a toddler harness wasn't for me anyway.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roisin84* 







I thought it was an odd choice of word - like you're driven to something desperate, which a toddler harness wasn't for me anyway.

Well, to be honest with you, I would only consider a harness in desparate circumstances. But then, I don't believe in ANY constraints _at all_ (no stroller, no baby carrier, no prolonged car seat if she wants out (we stop the car)) except when my child _wants_ to be in the constraint for own comfort (for ex, she still loves the carrier from time to time, and after about fifteen minutes of walking, she will ask to sit in the stroller (and usually stays in there for about a minute







)) or when safety absolutely requires it (I will, for example, put her in the stroller to cross a very busy street _and then take her out again on the other side_).

I think that children should be given as much freedom of movement and control over their own bodies that safety permits. For us that means that DD, who loves walking along the sidewalk with me, will be walking beside me without any constraints about 80 percent of the time. From this, at the age of 25 months old, she has learned always to walk on the sidewalk and not on the street, to stop at the curb when I say stop and to walk along the zebra stripes holding my hand when we cross. If we are in a very crowded area where I am afraid of losing her, or at a very busy intersection, I will put her in the stroller or carrier _for that period only_. DD has ventured out onto the street twice that I can remember since being able to walk. Each time I scolded her and she has not done it again.

My friends are aghast that I have such a cooperative daughter on the street but I attribute it to the fact that I have respected her enough to let her out of her stroller as much as possible from the beginning.

So yes, if I were ever to resort to a harness, it would be because I had been driven to it out of desperation.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

ut then, I don't believe in ANY constraints at all (no stroller, no baby carrier, no prolonged car seat if she wants out (we stop the car)) except when my child wants to be in the constraint for own comfort
Do you ever plan to have another child? If so, what will you do when/if your daughter wants to go one way and the baby wants to crawl another? How will your newly-walking toddler keep up with your older child? What if the baby wants out of the car seat and the older child needs to go preschool?


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Do you ever plan to have another child? If so, what will you do when/if your daughter wants to go one way and the baby wants to crawl another? How will your newly-walking toddler keep up with your older child? What if the baby wants out of the car seat and the older child needs to go preschool?

Um seriously because I never used any sort of harness on my older DD until I had a baby to keep track of as well. It's all well and good to talk about leashing toddlers until you have to do it and yeah I'd rather people think bad things of me than my toddler gets run over in a parking lot while I'm trying to juggle her and a newborn. I never bought an actual harness but I did use my sling around her waist. She actually loved it and would go and get it and put it on herself and ask to go for a walk even in circumstances where I wouldn't have used it otherwise. We got positive comments about what a good idea it was and to me if the kid is happy and safe then who cares? You've got to do what you've got to do and when you have more than one that may mean compromises you didn't expect when you only had one.


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## Finch (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp* 
My friends are aghast that I have such a cooperative daughter on the street but I attribute it to the fact that I have respected her enough to let her out of her stroller as much as possible from the beginning.

This statement rubs me the wrong way. My child isn't cooperative, he won't hold hands, he is a runner. We kept him out of the stroller as much as possible, too, either in arms or a baby carrier. We have loved and respected our child and guess what? He's got autism and isn't cooperative. A child's temperment is not always due to parenting.








: Ugh. Why did I come back to this thread? Why why why??


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MissRubyandKen* 
I have also asked them to hold onto my skirt a few times when they didn't want to hold my hand and had help pushing the cart at the store









We did this when my older daughter got older. Usually I carry the baby and the preschooler hangs on to my pocket or purse.


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## wasabi (Oct 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch* 
A child's temperment is not always due to parenting.

Sooo true.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Finch* 
This statement rubs me the wrong way. My child isn't cooperative, he won't hold hands, he is a runner. We kept him out of the stroller as much as possible, too, either in arms or a baby carrier. We have loved and respected our child and guess what? He's got autism and isn't cooperative. A child's temperment is not always due to parenting.








: Ugh. Why did I come back to this thread? Why why why??































I know. We are just not worthy, are we?


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

it is a saftey device similar to a seat belt. I don't lead my child around by it. it is ust to keep her from suddenly moving to far from me.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Do you ever plan to have another child? If so, what will you do when/if your daughter wants to go one way and the baby wants to crawl another? How will your newly-walking toddler keep up with your older child? What if the baby wants out of the car seat and the older child needs to go preschool?


Well even if I got pregnant very soon, my DD would be around 3 when the baby was born and by the time the younger one was able to walk, DD would be 4. You want me to put a 4-year old (not autistic or otherwise special needs that I know of) on a leash?


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

I don't think she was talking about using the harness with the 4 yr old... but with the younger one.

My son started walking at 10 months old... he loved walking and I respected him enough to let him explore while being safe. It really just took that one time while I was pregnant for him to dart out of the door into the parking lot so fast that I could barely grab him. I thanked my lucky stars that there was no car coming... but since then... he wore his harness.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:

Originally Posted by loraxc
Do you ever plan to have another child? If so, what will you do when/if your daughter wants to go one way and the baby wants to crawl another? How will your newly-walking toddler keep up with your older child? What if the baby wants out of the car seat and the older child needs to go preschool?Do you ever plan to have another child? If so, what will you do when/if your daughter wants to go one way and the baby wants to crawl another? How will your newly-walking toddler keep up with your older child? What if the baby wants out of the car seat and the older child needs to go preschool?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmlp* 
Well even if I got pregnant very soon, my DD would be around 3 when the baby was born and by the time the younger one was able to walk, DD would be 4. You want me to put a 4-year old (not autistic or otherwise special needs that I know of) on a leash?

Not necessarily, but I would like to hear about how you believe you would cope with the situations outlined by loraxc - the final one need not necessarily refer to preschool, but to any other appointment/event that your older child wants to attend, and the younger one does not want the carseat, you don't have the option of splitting them up, and driving is not optional.

Believe me, going from one child to two was a lot more complicated than I expected before I experienced it.


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

I see nothing wrong with these harnesses. I don't refer to them as leashes. I think that's rude. I happen to have a child that used to be sort of hard as a toddler and realize that these things can come in handy with children of certain types of temperament.







I agree that a child's behavior is not always that way because of the parenting they receive. I have two great, laidback children and one very hyper, wild child. I didn't plan it that way nor did I raise my kids to be that different.

I'd much rather see a SAFE child than a potentially dangerous situation with a child that might run off in to traffic, in to a crowd were they might get lost/picked up by a stranger, etc. These things can only be good IMO.


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## mackysmama (Jan 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Believe me, going from one child to two was a lot more complicated than I expected before I experienced it.

Oh mama, ain't that the truth! My youngest is 14 months and I STILL haven't adjusted. Lots of the things I held to be "truths" changed when I had two...


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## eloquence (Apr 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc* 
Do you ever plan to have another child? If so, what will you do when/if your daughter wants to go one way and the baby wants to crawl another? How will your newly-walking toddler keep up with your older child? What if the baby wants out of the car seat and the older child needs to go preschool?

Is preschool really a need though?

Not to derail this thread but I personally chose not to leash my children but to stay home when I couldn't manage four toddlers in public, which I couldn't.

They make me uncomfortable, personally. I had no money for a double, triplet or quad stroller. So I stayed home a lot and enjoyed my children there.

No judgement, just my own experience and opinion.


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

She was using preschool as an example, I believe. Like when your 4 yr old needs to get her hair cut and has an appt... etc. Obviously, staying home for however many years is not something many people WANT to do either. I don't think I'd just stay home because I didn't want to use a harness... I'd lose my mind...


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## mommy68 (Mar 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JeDeeLenae* 
She was using preschool as an example, I believe. Like when your 4 yr old needs to get her hair cut and has an appt... etc. Obviously, staying home for however many years is not something many people WANT to do either. I don't think I'd just stay home because I didn't want to use a harness... I'd lose my mind...

I agree. Actually a preschool would probably be the most likely place a little one could go "without" a harness.







They love the littlest kiddos at my daughter's preschool.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JeDeeLenae* 
Obviously, staying home for however many years is not something many people WANT to do either. I don't think I'd just stay home because I didn't want to use a harness... I'd lose my mind...

I couldn't have done that to dd. She needs to get outside and move around and explore. I think all kids do, to some extent. But, dd _really_ needs to. She gets just nutty if we stay home for more than two or three days max. I'd lose my mind, but not as quickly as she would.


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

Yeah, that too. My son gets stir crazy.


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## MysteryMama (Aug 11, 2006)

i guess they're ok, but i personally woulden't use one. to much like a dog leash for me.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Actually, when I made the preschool comments I was thinking about her statement that she stops the car if her DD wants out of the carseat (uh...on the highway, too?) I think I phrased it confusingly.







Anyway, my point was that I think holding everyone to the (VERY HIGH) standard of not ever putting a child in a sling, stroller, harness, carseat or arms unless he/she actively requests it is a going a little (okay, a lot) too far. I actually only have one child, but I have many friends w/more than one, and believe me, they pop one or the other into the carrier, stroller, or whatever because they just plain old have to. It's just reality.

Your child wouldn't have to be 4, either, before you'd deal with this--I don't know about your baby, but mine could crawl like LIGHTNING at 8 months. Baby wants to crawl this way, 3yo won't hold hands...so what do you do? And obviously, many people do have their kids closer together.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I'm seriously considering getting one. I don't have a special needs child. But, he's never liked the stroller and at 2, he only wants in the sling when he's in just the right mood. And he doesn't want to hold hands.
I think if I got the backpack, he could do his little toddler thing while I keep him safe.


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## Roxswood (Jun 29, 2006)

The only thing I can add to this is that the "reins" as they are called in the UK give my child more freedom than she has otherwise, she loves them. She much prefers to be wearing them than to have to hold hands all the time as when she has her reins on she can stop to pick up stones and flowers, she can run in circles round me which makes her giggle and she has freedom of movement that she doesn't have while holding hands.
If we are in a Mall, or somewhere relatively safe then she has total freedom to explore, she doesn't wear reins, go in a stroller or sling unless she is tired and requests it, but if we are walking by the road and the option is to hold hands with Mummy or wear her reins she chooses her reins all the time.
I have NEVER once used them to pull her in the direction I want to go, she still walks where she chooses, and I follow behind her. If I need to guide her I do it by holding her hand, by talking with her and telling her which way we are going and why, but having her reins (which are only about a foot long) looped round my hand keeps her from being able to run out into the road, or step in front of a car in the parking lot.
They are also invaluable for knowing that she cannot snatch her hand out of mind and run off just at the moment I'm leaning into the car to grasp my purse etc, or distracted finding the car keys in my bag.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Just a friendly, general reminder to keep posts civil and on-topic









Any concerns or questions about a post---please contact a moderator rather than responding to the thread. Thanks


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## JeDeeLenae (Feb 5, 2006)

I saw a little boy that I wish had on a harness today. I was leaving the store and as I'm driving through the parking lot, this little boy goes darting in front of me and I slammed on the brakes. What's really sad is the mom gave me a dirty look, like I was doing something wrong.


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