# Warnings about "bag" slings



## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Thought I'd link this, since it's a safety issue

http://www.thebabywearer.com/forum/s...d.php?t=205359

The jist, if you can't see the original, is that it's really hard to use these slings (like Infantino or Slingrider) correctly, babies have trouble breathing in them, and they aren't safe.


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## fek&fuzz (Jun 19, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
Thought I'd link this, since it's a safety issue

http://www.thebabywearer.com/forum/s...d.php?t=205359

The jist, if you can't see the original, is that it's really hard to use these slings (like Infantino or Slingrider) correctly, babies have trouble breathing in them, and they aren't safe.

You have to be a member to read the thread. Can you give some indication of what it's about? Which you just did as I was posting.


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## mamabeca (Oct 3, 2004)

seems like a poor design overall, after reading the stuff on there.

EDITED AS PER REQUEST.

clearly there is an issue!


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## UmmIbrahim (Feb 16, 2007)

Its very easy to join TheBabyWearer.com, and you have access to a wider variety of information regarding various carriers.

I linked to that on my blog as well...I get scared anytime I see a mama w/ carriers like that...half the time they have the child half out and they are supporting the childs head w/ their hand! I usually try to give them the local bwing group card and talk to them alittle about carriers...

**still trying to figure out why companies would rather make shotty carriers just to get money! Hello!







**


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## SophieAnn (Jun 26, 2007)

I don't know what a "bag" sling is. Could someone post a link to show me what it is?

Thanks,


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## UmmIbrahim (Feb 16, 2007)

Its like those Infantino slingRiders

Also, just take 5 seconds and apply for TheBabyWearer membership and read the entire piece!


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## Arwyn (Sep 9, 2004)

They look a little like pouches or ring slings, but there's elastic all along the edges, and it's basically like putting baby in a purse. There's simply no way to support proper positioning in them (and the instructions are horrible: put carrier on flat surface, secure baby in carrier, _then_ put carrier on







), and they're so far down babies can't really get fresh air, and there's no eye contact and poor body contact, and they're just icky. I say using Bjorns etc are better than buckets, but I'm not sure these things are. (And the researcher seriously would recommend using a baby bucket instead, based on the oxygenation stats of the tests she ran - and she's a huge babywearing proponent.)


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

Thanks for this article. I have one of these, but only used it for a short while because it was unconfortable. I guess I'm going to turn it into wipes or something!


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## blizzard77 (Jan 6, 2007)

let's keep bumping this--I think it's a really important issue, given the availability of these slings in big box stores and on new moms' registeries. There are even sewing patterns to make one of these out of fleece!


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## UmmIbrahim (Feb 16, 2007)

Yeah, I agree! I also blogged about this.

Its SOOO important!


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## neverdoingitagain (Mar 30, 2005)

Thanks for posting! We have a premaxx, which seems pretty close to these kind of slings (well I have a DIY wrap, my dh has the premaxx) I think we will save the premaxx for when our baby is older. It works well for hip carries, but not so well as a pouch.


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## sophiekat (Oct 29, 2005)

ugh, a pg friend has the infantino on her registry -- i think we'll get her a RS and tell her how bad these are.


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## maymorales (Dec 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sophiekat* 
ugh, a pg friend has the infantino on her registry -- i think we'll get her a RS and tell her how bad these are.

that's always a challenge. trying to convince someone that a cheapie from a major retailer will turn her off and be counter-productive, babywearing speaking.

i am like this







: when i see one of those on a registry. so i just wear my ds in a smashing carrier to show that off. of course, the mama gets the same one...


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## UmmIbrahim (Feb 16, 2007)

Honestly, it someone wants a sling, there are WONDERFUL slings for $50 and under!

WiseWomanSlings are incredible, as are RosyBaby LiteOnShoulder and Maya is around 50-60$

Umm Ibi


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## AllieFaye (Mar 7, 2007)

I have a Premaxx and we have used it since birth. I never felt unsafe with it, despite a couple of dirty looks I got from other babywearers. Unlike the other bags, it does not have elastic around the edge, and the newborn hold is not worn the same way. The strap is twisted or rotated around to create extra tension. There are pleated folds where the strap attaches to the bag, unlike the Infantino or Snugli bags. These folds support a newborn more than the flat position of those bags. The strap is twisted, then put on, and the baby is inserted in the bag. When worn it is very similar to a pouch, but it is adjustable. Having fourteen months of experience with a bag (and over half of that in the older-baby sitting sling position,) I don't think that bags are inherently unsafe. I think the design of some of them are better than others. Furthermore, I wouldn't impose my bag-love on another babywearer, nor would I want one insisting that my preference is inferior to hers.


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## jul511riv (Mar 16, 2006)

innerresting...


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## maymorales (Dec 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UmmIbrahim* 
Honestly, it someone wants a sling, there are WONDERFUL slings for $50 and under!

WiseWomanSlings are incredible, as are RosyBaby LiteOnShoulder and Maya is around 50-60$

Umm Ibi

sleepingbaby.net is awesome too!
reasonably priced, well-constructed slings. But she's on maternity leave right now.


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## mliss (May 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllieFaye* 
I have a Premaxx and we have used it since birth. I never felt unsafe with it, despite a couple of dirty looks I got from other babywearers.

Thanks for posting your info. I've seen a Premaxx IRL only w/o a baby in it so no real idea of the fit. Just tonight I was cruising the Internet for more bag sling pics and I noticed the Premaxx seems to have the baby higher than slings like the SlingRider. I did see two chin to chest photo on the JJ Cole site though. Did you find the Premaxx 'folded' your newborn?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllieFaye* 
Having fourteen months of experience with a bag (and over half of that in the older-baby sitting sling position,) I don't think that bags are inherently unsafe. I think the design of some of them are better than others.

Well, I'm going to disagree with the "unsafe" comment but only in the context of the SlingRider. I'm going to link you all to some SlingRider pics:

Oh rats! Photobucket is down. I'll have to link them in the morning.
I do have quite a few pics where the newborn in the SlingRider is absolutely not visible. There is only a 1 - 2" crack between the elastics and then darkness down in the sling. A couple more where infants rotated and had their nose pressed against the side of the sling and the parent's body.

Then the sling test where the baby had a respiratory rate of 72 and was grunting. I had mom place her arm under baby and the grunting stopped instantly and baby's resp rate went to a more normal 40.

Oh, and I've had an offer to blog this info so you all won't have to log into The Babywearer. Don't know when that will be up though.

M'Liss


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## neverdoingitagain (Mar 30, 2005)

Maybe we're doing it wrong, or maybe our baby is just too small. We have a premaxx . It folds her AND most of the time I can't see her due to the sides being closed up. I know how it looks in the pictures, but its just not possible for us. Our dd is 4 weeks old and around 8lbs(we'll find out tomorrow)
Perhaps if she was a bigger baby? We are following the instructions, but she's still deep in the pocket, much like the slingrider and infantino. I would definately not use it as a pouch. When she's bigger and I can use it for the sitting position, I would probably use it then.
Sorry but thats been my experience.


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## mliss (May 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neverdoingitagain* 
Maybe we're doing it wrong, or maybe our baby is just too small. We have a premaxx . It folds her AND most of the time I can't see her due to the sides being closed up. I know how it looks in the pictures, but its just not possible for us.

That's what I've found as well. Looking at product shots of the SlingRider, Lamaze Close Comfort and Premaxx the manufacturers are either 1) using a 4 month-ish older infant or 2) the model is pushing the baby up in the sling so the baby is visible.

Here are my photos of newborns in the SlingRider:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...DSC02562-1.jpg I promise there is a less than 7 pound baby in there.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...DSC02460-1.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...0/DSC02395.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...0/DSC02457.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...0/DSC03054.jpg 8 pound baby.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *neverdoingitagain* 
Perhaps if she was a bigger baby?

Once baby is bigger then the width and length of the baby pushes the sides open however, then the infant ends up in a tight chin-to-chest position, which kinks the baby's airway. Look at these product shots of the SlingRider and Premaxx and the new Boppy Carry. Notice how squashed the babies look? As I've mentioned I've only tried the SlingRider (and am going to pick up a Lamaze Close Comfort today) but the product shots of these other carriers is, IMO, quite concerning.

A fabric pouch (like Hotslings, Peanut Shell, etc.) is much more shallow and the pouch has a seam. Baby's bum, when centered on the seam, sinks into the 'bum pocket' and baby's back straightens out.
For comparison here is a pic of a newborn in a Peanut Shell

M'Liss


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## AllieFaye (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mliss* 
Just tonight I was cruising the Internet for more bag sling pics and I noticed the Premaxx seems to have the baby higher than slings like the SlingRider. I did see two chin to chest photo on the JJ Cole site though. Did you find the Premaxx 'folded' your newborn?

Yes, the baby is higher in the Premaxx than in the adds of the other bags. It may be possible to get the other bag styles to fit tighter and not fold over the baby. I've not tried them yet, so I don't know about adjusting them.

Unfortunately, with many of the add of the Premaxx, they show the sling worn incorrectly with an infant. This is because, as an advertisement, they are deliberately trying to show the product logo, and the zippered pockets. In the instructions on how to wear it, the correct positioning is clearly shown. In the infant position, the logo is completely concealed, and the pockets are pressing against the wearer's chest. The pockets are only easily accessible in the older baby sit. Granted, that is a disadvantage in this sling. Some adds do show a correct positioning.

Here's a sample of some incorrect positioning, to feature the logo:
Incorrect Infant Position #1
Incorrect Position On the Left; web page in Dutch. Incorrect Infant image #2
Look At My Logo and Pockets, Incorrect #3

Here's examples of how it is correctly worn with babies between birth and five months:
At about five months
About three months
Newborn

When correctly worn, it does not fold over the baby. Unfortunately, none of these images show how the strap looks over the back. In an older baby sling style sit, the plastic adjuster sits at about the shoulder with the curve facing out. In an infant position, rotating the strap faces the curve inward. It then fits in the middle of the back, with the curve fitting into the curve of one's spine. It's quite comfortable this way, and stabilizes the bag, while creating tension. This explains why the logo is not visible on the correct positioning.

Added: I found the instructions online. The photo on the cover is more accurate than in the instructions, where she tightened the bag a bit too tight over the baby's face. However, it's still a better view than the incorrect ones.


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## mliss (May 15, 2006)

Thank you for the information on the Premaxx. I like how the baby is more visible and the sling offers more adjustability in the rails.

My only remaining concern is keeping a newborn from a tight chin-to-chest position. I noticed that the Premaxx, like the Lamaze Close Comfort and SlingRider, has a flat padded bottom. I've found this to be a problem. For comparison, pouches have a seam that makes a nice bum 'pocket' and this pocket helps to uncurl the baby. The middle section of an open-tailed ring sling can be tightened or loosened in order to provide optimal positioning. It just doesn't seem like this would be possible in the Premaxx. Is it? Because this product photo shows a newborn curled up and chin-to-chest. (It's the newborn in the dark red and orange sling.)

One option would be to place a small folded receiving blanket under baby's back so that baby's head would be tilted back off the chest. Do you think this would be do-able with the Premaxx? Because uncurling a newborn in a SlingRider just pushes the baby farther up and deeper into the fold of fabric below the shoulder.

(Now I really need a Premaxx. I have a SlingRider and now a Close Comfort but looks like I need to add at least one more bag sling to my collection. Maybe I should check the consignment store.)

EDITED: I just re-looked at the Premaxx instructions and they recommend carrying the infant at or above belly button height (anyway there is a little height line). That it so, so cool. Way to go Premaxx







And the shoulder flip - so nice.

M'Liss


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