# Non-evaluative Phrases?



## kalisis (Jan 10, 2005)

Can we start a list?

I was just reading something completely unrelated to parenting, but it really struck me about how I'm praising DS.

Anyway, I thought maybe if we could start a list, it might give those of us working on this particular aspect some better ideas.

Here's what I've got:

I like it when...
I appreciate ...
I love when...
I'm glad that...
Thank you for your ...

What are some of your go to phrases?

ETA: Interestingly enough, the first four phrases came from that book. I wrote them here because I wanted feedback on them - thanks.


----------



## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

It makes me feel good inside when you...


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I don't get it.

I'm new to this. So, exactly what do you mean?

I say things to the kids like

"Wow, that looks heavy" (when they help with something) They say, "It IS, but, I can carry it"

"OmGosh! You have FOUR!" (also helping) Then the others scurry to get FIVE.

Is that what you mean?


----------



## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

"There's a lot of blue in your picture."

"You cleaned up all the Legos."

"You remembered to put your clothes in the laundry hamper."


----------



## Tiacsophno (Feb 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *anniej*

Here's what I've got:

I like it when...
I appreciate ...
I love when...
I'm glad that...

These are forms of evaluative praise. The speaker is rewarding the listener with a verbal expression of her approval.

Non-evaluative phrases would be something non-judgemental like the examples phathui5 gave. I try to describe what I see or ask questions.

You did it
I see you made your bed this morning
Tell me about your picture
What was the hardest part of the puzzle?
What do you think about it?
Jane seemed pretty happy when you shared that cookie with her


----------



## kalisis (Jan 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tiacsophno*
These are forms of evaluative praise. The speaker is rewarding the listener with a verbal expression of her approval.


I'm new at this and looking for suggestions. Thanks for clarifying this for me.


----------



## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

I ask a lot of questions and make a lot of observations. Sure, our daughter is not verbal yet so she really isn't answering the questions yet, but I do feel like she *gets it*.

For instance, she tries to imitate me when I do yoga, so I will say something like "Are you doing yoga with mama? Wow, you can put your feet over your head!" (which is impressive lol) or, "You seem to like doing yoga with mama!"

or when I am shutting the door and say "watch your fingers babe"... when she pulls her fingers out of the door, a simple "thank you" suffices.

or she will bring me a book and turn the pages in it I will say "you like to read don't you?" or "do you want to turn the next page?" or if she points to say, a cat in a book I will say "Yes, that's a cat, we have a kitty don't we?"

I usually say things like, "yes, that's a ___" instead of evaluating. For instance, she will point to my glasses and say "glaaaa" and I will say, "that's right, those are mama's glasses...you're pointing at them".... or similarly, if she points to my nose and says "glaaaa" I don't tell her she's wrong but I will say "that's mama's nose, are you looking for my glasses?"


----------



## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

I do use "I like it when..." "Thank you for..." "It helps me when you..." I have a hard time finding fault with that, and I have the idea that many schools of thought are okay with that.

I also use phrases like "You did it!" "Look what you did!" "You _____ yourself, huh?" "Look what you made!" and "I bet you feel proud of yourself!"

And I say things like, "It hurts when you push me." "Sometimes I feel frustrated when I hear whining." "I don't like picking food up off the floor."

For me personally, going completely nonevaluative feels fake. I also feel like a doormat/a robot if I never express how my child's action or behavior makes me feel.

What I try very hard not to use is stuff like "Good girl!" "Great job!" "You're so smart!" "That's such a pretty drawing!" (Or "That was naughty!" "Bad girl!" "You messed it up!" "That's mean!")


----------



## RootBeerFloat (Nov 22, 2005)

No praise is SO hard! I am really working on this now, thanks for starting this thread.

One that I'm trying to do more is comment on her demeanor. I see that you're smiling, that must make you happy. You are running around, are you excited? That sort of thing.


----------



## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

I dislike statements like, "You make me feel..." or "He made you feel..."

I think it gives the child, or anyone, the idea that they are somehow responsible for another person's feelings.

I like "I" statements better: "I felt happy when I saw the flowers." But in terms of non-evaluative statements, even these could be interpreted as praise/punishment since they do have a value attached to them: Mommy feels happy [and it is GOOD to feel happy and it was in response to what I did so I am good]; Mommy felt sad [and its BAD that mommy feels sad in response to what I have done]. That attached value is probably cultural and unavoidable.

I think non-evaluative statements are based on what is directly observable.

"You drew a red car."

"You put the puzzle together."

"I'm chopping onions."

"You're cleaning the celery."


----------



## oliversmum2000 (Oct 10, 2003)

say what you see...


----------



## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

This is such an interesting thread! I guess I didn't understand what "non-evaluative" meant. I believe I do now. But I do have a question and hope someone can help me out.

I can certainly understand not wanting to make a child feel responsible for another person's feelings. But is there anything wrong with helping a child understand that his actions affect other people (emotionally)? When I typed in my response ("I feel so good inside when....") I was thinking of times when DS says "I love you" or shows compassion or kindness to me. I want him to know his actions affected my feelings. Is that frowned upon? If so, can someone please explain why?


----------



## oliversmum2000 (Oct 10, 2003)

i think the expression on youur face says it all, plus hugs and kisses


----------



## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
I do use "I like it when..." "Thank you for..." "It helps me when you..." I have a hard time finding fault with that, and I have the idea that many schools of thought are okay with that.

I also use phrases like "You did it!" "Look what you did!" "You _____ yourself, huh?" "Look what you made!" and "I bet you feel proud of yourself!"

And I say things like, "It hurts when you push me." "Sometimes I feel frustrated when I hear whining." "I don't like picking food up off the floor."

*For me personally, going completely nonevaluative feels fake. I also feel like a doormat/a robot if I never express how my child's action or behavior makes me feel.*

What I try very hard not to use is stuff like "Good girl!" "Great job!" "You're so smart!" "That's such a pretty drawing!" (Or "That was naughty!" "Bad girl!" "You messed it up!" "That's mean!")









: ITA with this post, especially the bolded part, my emphasis


----------



## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

I, too, want to be authentic and honest about my feelings. However,

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
For me personally, going completely nonevaluative feels fake. I also feel like a doormat/a robot if _I never express how my child's action or behavior makes me feel._

My child's actions or words do not _make_ me feel anything. When I see my child do something, or when I hear my child say something, I do have feelings but those feelings arise from _my own_ thoughts, assumptions, perceptions, needs, desires. So if I see my child mopping the floor, it's most honest to say something like "I appreciate it when I see you mopping the floor, because I like having help with the housework." (In Non Violent Communication, a more "classical" expression might be "When I see you mopping the floor, I feel appreciative because my need for help with the housework is met." Sometimes with very young kids that seems to wordy to me.) KWIM? Saying "when I see..." or "when I hear..." provides an objective observation (and emphasizes my responsibility: _I_ see). I explain that I feel this way when i see/hear that, because of _my own_ needs/desires-in doing so, I take responsibility for my own feelings. Speaking this way does feel a little odd sometimes, but I think that's because it's just such a different way of talking than we're used to in our culture. I try to do this, though, because it allows me to fully express my feelings without making my child responsible for them. YK? And doing so also requires that I be honest with myself about the origin of my feelings, which helps me handle the more difficult things more effectively and compassionately (and allows me to take care of myself, too).

So for me, a non-evaluative expression is: "When _I_ see/hear...._I_ feel....because _I_ need/value....."


----------



## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

So if I see my child mopping the floor, it's most honest to say something like "I appreciate it when I see you mopping the floor, because I like having help with the housework."
If my DD were mopping the floor, I might say, "I like it when you mop the floor! That helps me a lot."

My question is--is it really that different?
 






Especially to a 2yo? I often feel like these complex semantics MUST be lost on children under 5, if not under 10.


----------



## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

I don't think the words themselves are much different, honestly, and at one time thought the subleties weren't all that importnat. But now I think the subleties are very important-to me as the parent. I think my awareness of things allows me to communicate much more clearly with my children. I think my awareness affects those subleties that kids do pick up on-body language, tone, mood, etc.-and affects my ability to respond to my kids effectively.

Just my approach, which helps me.


----------



## mbravebird (May 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sledg*
it allows me to fully express my feelings without making my child responsible for them. And doing so also requires that I be honest with myself about the origin of my feelings, which helps me handle the more difficult things more effectively and compassionately

I am in this camp, too. I haven't studied NVC, but I usually choose to say something like "I enjoy it when..." if ds is doing something I'm feeling really positive about. I think it's really important to own my own feelings, and not load them on ds. Like it or not, there _is_ an element of pressure in thinking that you "made" someone else happy. It endangers the self-motivation of the activity, and can make the kid feel like they should do it "right" again next time, too. And that pressure, studies show, actually _reduces_ performance on the activity the next time they try.

The alternative is a true sharing, and celebration, of whatever is making you both feel positive. Where both of you are having your own feelings, and your eyes meet with that sparkle of joy, realizing you are both feeling similar things. I'm not saying that necessarily happens when ds cleans something up for me, but I want it to be on that same spectrum, rather than on the spectrum of "You've done well by pleasing me."

AND I'm not always able to do this the way I'd like. But I always try to get better at it.

So, some of the "phrases" I'd contribute to the list:
"You love doing that!"
"That seems like so much fun."
"We're doing it together!"
"Now it's all done!"
"Wow, you've been working on this for a while, and now you did it! Look at that!"

And I _do_ think it makes a difference, even with a two year old, because they are so much in the process of setting up their ideas about themselves and their relationships, and even if they can't _articulate_ the difference, they can _feel_ the difference. I mean, my two year old knows when I'm upset even if I don't say a word -- kids are hard-wired to be that sensitive; it's how they survive. So I think they can feel the difference between us "approving" of them vs celebrating _with_ them. We might have lost that sensitivity, but they haven't.

And on a less esoteric level, just think of how much they repeat what we say. They're learning self-talk and other-talk at this age, simply by imitation.

So, that's where I'm coming from. Again, I'm not always able to do everything the way I've described, but I think it's very much worth trying to.


----------



## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

I love how well you articulated my feelings sledg!

I do think semantics matter. Even if they may be lost somewhat on a very young child, I think it helps *me* express myself more effectively and like another poster brought up, helps model for my child how to express herself and how the actions/words of others affect her while still owning her own feelings and reactions to situations.

I mean, the goal is not perfection -- if it were, I would drive myself crazy. I am not suggesting that in the however many years we live in the same home I will never throw out something like "It makes me happy when..." or whatever... it is hard to unteach yourself what you've been taught by society/parents/peers/school etc... but I am conscious of it all the time and do make a clear effort to not evaluate and to own my own feelings.

Another reason I think it is great to practice this when children are very little, is because there is time to practice. Sure, at a year or 2 old they may not *get* the semantics, but if you speak in such a manner from such an early age, think of what a pro you'll be when they do *get* it at 5, or 8, or whatever arbitrary age.


----------



## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Hmm. Perhaps I'm dense, but it's very hard for me to see the differences, I guess. I am not trying to be combative! I'm interested in this subject. I just don't quite get it.

Quote:

I usually choose to say something like "I enjoy it when..." if ds is doing something I'm feeling really positive about. I think it's really important to own my own feelings, and not load them on ds. Like it or not, there is an element of pressure in thinking that you "made" someone else happy.
So, let me see if I get it. You think "I enjoy it when..." is preferable to "I feel happy when..."? (Or is it just the use of "make"?)

But your child presumably knows that "enjoying" is a positive feeling that has been created in you by him. I just don't quite follow, I guess. If the argument was that one should only use completely factual statements, such as:

Quote:

"You drew a red car."

"You put the puzzle together."

"I'm chopping onions."

"You're cleaning the celery."
then I could follow the logic of it, althought I feel that this approach is not for me. But I feel it's splitting hairs to say that "I enjoy it when" is somehow different from "I feel happy when". Because of the word "feel"?

Quote:

So I think they can feel the difference between us "approving" of them vs celebrating with them.
This I absolutely agree with! I just wonder if it's really the specific words that convey this, or more tone, nonverbal stuff, much more general things about one's interactions, what one notices, etc. You know?


----------



## marsupial*mama (May 13, 2006)

With a background in linguistics, I find this discussion quite fascinating. It's kind of along the lines of neuro-linguistic programming where congruence of communication (verbal, physical and expressive) is paramount in enabling clear, authentic communication with the conscious AND unconscious mind - where the UNconscious mind is essential to self esteem and much more sophisticated than the conscious mind at detecting incongruent patterns in the things we say and do..

So while you might think your effort with non-evaluative communication is lost on your two year old, it is in fact speaking more clearly to your toddler's emerging sense of self via the unconscious mind. Which makes the early cmmunications our most essential and infuential communication.

I'll ponder on some of the comments above a bit more and follow this thread with interest.


----------



## ZanZansMommy (Nov 8, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
I do use "I like it when..." "Thank you for..." "It helps me when you..." I have a hard time finding fault with that, and I have the idea that many schools of thought are okay with that.

I also use phrases like "You did it!" "Look what you did!" "You _____ yourself, huh?" "Look what you made!" and "I bet you feel proud of yourself!"

And I say things like, "It hurts when you push me." "Sometimes I feel frustrated when I hear whining." "I don't like picking food up off the floor."

For me personally, going completely nonevaluative feels fake. I also feel like a doormat/a robot if I never express how my child's action or behavior makes me feel.

What I try very hard not to use is stuff like "Good girl!" "Great job!" "You're so smart!" "That's such a pretty drawing!" (Or "That was naughty!" "Bad girl!" "You messed it up!" "That's mean!")

Ditto!


----------



## BellinghamCrunchie (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
So, let me see if I get it. You think "I enjoy it when..." is preferable to "I feel happy when..."? (Or is it just the use of "make"?)

No, I think "I enjoy it when..." is preferable to "YOU made me feel..."


----------



## jaidymama (Jun 18, 2005)

Uggg..... computer problems wiped out my reply!! (and it was soooo well worded too).

Anyways, dh and I work on our communication to ds. We find it important because our own communication isn't all that great







. So helping our ds (and future children) learn to use "I" statements and nonevaluative statements will be a great start for him/them. I had read a book... (I'm a book lover) "raising emotionally intelligent children"... it addressed the kinds of things discussed in this thread. I'm interested to know more about Non Violent Communication, if anyone has a quick list.

So far, I really like how it aligns my thoughts/feelings with what I'm saying, and how I can be authentic rather than spitting out a coined phrase. On the flip side, it has been handy to have a basic template in mind since this is not something I grew up with, and am still learning. I think a lot of great examples have been given, so can't think of any others. I liked the statement, "say what you see."







I'm going to use that, thanks!


----------



## mbravebird (May 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
So, let me see if I get it. You think "I enjoy it when..." is preferable to "I feel happy when..."? (Or is it just the use of "make"?)

But your child presumably knows that "enjoying" is a positive feeling that has been created in you by him. I feel it's splitting hairs to say that "I enjoy it when" is somehow different from "I feel happy when".

I just wonder if it's really the specific words that convey this, or more tone, nonverbal stuff, much more general things about one's interactions, what one notices, etc. You know?

I think it is the use of "make" that feels wierd to me. I also think that the crucial element of "I like it when" statements are the inclusion of the process behind it, or the needs being met, as Sledg described. Because I think that eventually kids can understand that it everyone's needs do not always get met, even if it makes them happy when they do get met. That it's not our job to meet everyone's needs, but just to be aware of how our needs impact how we feel and how others feel.

I may be a little hung up on this aspect because I'm trying to free myself from these chains in my current relationship with my mother. So sometimes I feel like I'm over-detailing everything in my mind, because I have some extra tension about it. It's like I'm still a kid, trying to learn that I'm not responsible for making everything OK for my mother.

And I think you're right, the _context_ of facial expressions, body language, and emotional history are as, if not more, important.


----------



## Ayala Eilon (Apr 8, 2006)

Wow, I am so glad that so many of you are into avoiding manipulative praise.
You know, the whole movement of not praising started by Naomi Aldort Ph.D. in 1994. She wrote an article for Mothering magazine, called, Getting Our of the Way. You can find it on her site. Awesome. Then the book, Punished by Rewards came out to explain the damage of praise and rewards.

Now the best written material on the whole subject, including what to do instead, is in Life Learning Magazine. A series of three articles in three consecutive issues. It explains what to do instead with no hint of manipulation, evaluation or personal feelings. It is so great. Also, her CDs and book cover this topic. She is really the originator and the main speaker on this topic. I think you will all love reading her clear direction.


----------



## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I've thought a lot about this topic and am still unsure how I feel about it. I definitely am not okay with overtly manipulative praise, such as "You're such a good girl when you pick up your toys." Blech. And I'm much more likely to say "Hey, you did it!" than "Good job!" to my kids. But I don't have as big of a problem with saying "good job" or the like as some others here do.

I also feel ridiculous saying "You used blue in the picture." I've done this before, and my ds looks at me like I'm an idiot. Of course it's blue. He wants to know what I think. He didn't draw the picture specifically to get my praise, but he's interested in what I think of it. When I make a new dinner I'm interested in knowing what my dh thinks of it, and if his comment was "There is spinach in here" I would be fairly disappointed with his feedback. If I hear "I love the spinach" it doesn't turn me into a praise junkie.

I guess my thoughts are that positive, non coercive comments, even evaluative ones, are just not that awful. If the worst my kid hears is me saying "good job", or "you're so smart," or "I love that painting," then I am just a-okay with that.

Now, I know some will say that those comments are coercive, in that if someone says "good job" when they pick up their toys that the parents are trying to "coerce" them into picking up their toys more often. I can see this argument, and depending on the context can sometimes agree, but othertimes not. I'm not too concerned with my ds knowing that picking up his toys makes me happier than not picking up his toys. Yes, I understand the whole bit about no one else "making" me feel a certain way, that they are my feelings and not his responsibility. I wouldn't say to him "If you don't pick up your toys I will feel sad." But I may say something like "It makes me really angry to step on legos that you left in the kitchen." Yes, I could say "I feel angry when I step on legos that you left in the kitchen", but I feel like the semantics of it get a bit ridiculous. I really believe that my ds hears the two statements the same way - mama stepping on legos = angry mama.

We have established a solid enough relationship that he knows that I love him and am proud of him regardless of how "good" he is at any particular thing, so the exact wording I use when responding to him is not so much of an issue.


----------



## oliversmum2000 (Oct 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oceanbaby*
When I make a new dinner I'm interested in knowing what my dh thinks of it, and if his comment was "There is spinach in here" I would be fairly disappointed with his feedback. If I hear "I love the spinach" it doesn't turn me into a praise junkie.

i think i am suffering tiredness delirium but several posts have made me really chuckle and this one is so funny!

imagine him giving you this really big proud smile and saying 'its got spinach!' 'of course its got bloody spinach - i just put it there!'

ROTFLOL!!!

i cant imagine i would be inclined to make it again if that was the response!

i think that praise that comes from genuine enthusiasm is totally different from praise that is aimed and behaviour modification / manipulation. i also like discrptive praise, ie i really like the colour youchose for the sky, that shade of blue makes me feel all warm and summery or hey you put spinach in - i love spinach, it goes really well with the goats cheese - this is delicious.


----------



## rumi (Mar 29, 2004)

I'd like to put in a word for saying nothing. I try to remind myself that Ineed not comment, Ineed not have the last word, or any word. Saying nothing should not be synonymous with disapproval or disregard. It can also be a signal of peaceful acceptance and natural harmony. And I have found, it is the best way to open up space for my dd to make her own comments, which I can listen to, my personally preferred path towards loving communiation.


----------



## mbravebird (May 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oceanbaby*
I also feel ridiculous saying "You used blue in the picture." I've done this before, and my ds looks at me like I'm an idiot. Of course it's blue. He wants to know what I think. He didn't draw the picture specifically to get my praise, but he's interested in what I think of it.

I agree that sharing opinions are important as feedback, especially between kids and parents. I think the problem is that, because of the power differential and our praising "habits" as a culture, kids end up relying on an adult's opinion as the final word. But I think if the parent's opinion in presented in context, as just one element of many feelings and thoughts out there, then it can be great modeling of how to incorporate feedback and thoughts into a relationship.

Context is what I feel like I'm striving for when I talk about the colors he chose in a painting rather than talking immediately about what I think of it. And I think there is a relaxed engaged way to do it, celebrating the emotions that are evoked in him and me by the colors, or by the shapes, or just how he felt drawing it. Somewhere in there is also how I felt looking at it -- but it's not my first response, kwim?

My son is pretty young, so he hasn't flat out asked for my opinions yet, but when he does I hope that I'll have given him enough context that my opinion will be in perspective for him. It sounds like you feel that you've reached that place pretty solidly with your son.


----------



## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
But your child presumably knows that "enjoying" is a positive feeling that has been created in you by him.

Any feeling that I have is not created in me by my children. I may feel enjoyment or anger or joy or appreciation or frustration in response to what my child does, but those feelings are not created by my child. That is important, both for me to understand and for my children to understand. If my one of my kids hits the other over the head, I will feel anger-but that anger is not something my child has produced in me. The anger arises because I am witnessing something that is not in harmony with my values and needs: I value living in a peaceful home and I need to know everyone in my family is safe, so when one child is hitting another my needs for peace and safety aren't met, giving rise to frustration, some fear and anger. That feeling of anger is not something my child has produced, it is something that comes from within myself. I may then request that my child do something (like touch gently, use words) to help meet my needs (but not place that responsibility on my child alone) for safety and peace. If my children decide spontaneously to mop the floor, I do feel appreciation and gratitude and joy-but those feelings are not created by my children, they are feelings that arise in response to my needs being met and the pleasure I take in parenting. I think this is a very important distinction, and it is very liberating. Others do not make us feel, we feel what we feel because of our own values and needs (met or unmet). And when we do feel, we can look within to understand why we feel this way and (if necessary) what we need in order to feel better. And we can learn that we do not have to depend on others to meet our needs so that we feel good. I believe we can fully and genuinely communicate about our feelings and needs without blaming others (even for our good feelings).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *oceanbaby*
When I make a new dinner I'm interested in knowing what my dh thinks of it, and if his comment was "There is spinach in here" I would be fairly disappointed with his feedback. If I hear "I love the spinach" it doesn't turn me into a praise junkie.

I don't think "I love the spinach" is praise, and I don't think it's evaluative. I think it's an expression of one's experience. I don't think we have to be so bland as to restrict ourselves to saying "there's spinach here." Saying "the spinach is good" is an evaluation (and not necessarily a global truth-maybe someone else doesn't think the spinach is good), whereas saying "I enjoyed the spinach" or "I love the spinach" reflects my own experience honestly while leaving room for the opinions of others. I think saying that I enjoy something is different than evaluating it as good or bad.

My kids sometimes ask if I like their artwork, and I will say "I like it." I sometimes also say "I think it's beautiful, I like all those colors". Because I do like it, I do think it's beautiful. What I don't say is "that's a great picture" or "you're a good painter".

It sounds like splitting hairs, but I think it's an important distinction. My experience versus an evaluation. I think kids can understand the difference.

I do agree with rumi that sometimes saying nothing is wonderful.


----------



## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
If my DD were mopping the floor, I might say, "I like it when you mop the floor! That helps me a lot."

If my daughter were mopping the floor I would say "What did you spill!!?"

Or

"You must want something..what is it? Money?"

Or,

I would just faint to the (clean) floor, cuz this would never happen.


----------



## SugarAndSun (Feb 6, 2005)

"You are so helpful" when ds helps with laundry, cleaning, etc.

He is... so I am describing!

"You stacked all the cups"

"You worked hard. All the toys are put away"

On the other hand...

"That hurts kitty"

"Kitty doesn't want to sit with you anymore"

"Mom can't sit with you if you are pulling hair"

Hmmmm.... to me no matter what I am elavuating. Notice that the phrases for positive and negative behavior are clearly distinguishable even though they are pretty much non-evaluative. Because we view things as positive and negatives I think it is pretty hard to get away from this. However, I at least try to stay away from canned, trite, meaningless praise.


----------



## Ayala Eilon (Apr 8, 2006)

I want to second Rumi's vote for saying nothing. We don't make so many comments on adults. In fact I would hate it if anyone did.

Also, in the three articles by DR. Aldort in Life Learning magazine she resolves the issue of feedback, and gratitude which is confused with praise. So someone said here about making spinach for dinner. See, when you make something for the sake of another, it is natural and healthy to let you know if they enjoy it, and to express gratitude (not evaluation.) If I wash the dishes, someone may say, thank you. Not, You did a great job, and not ever, I see the dishes are washed.
Feedback is also covered by these articles and in her book. You give it to a child who asked for it specifically: "is my leg strait when I jump over the rope?"
or, "Is my reading clear and loud enough?" etc. It is more common between teacher and student and with older kids. You can get these articles from Life Learning Magazine: http://www.lifelearningmagazine.com/backissues.html
Nov/Dec 02
Jan/Feb 03
Mar/Apr 03


----------



## OMama (Feb 18, 2005)

Very interesting discussion. Lots to think about! And I haven't read the other resources listed in the thread as I'm somewhat new to this train of thought, but a couple of ideas came to mind when I was reading what others had written . . for me at least it seems that occasional praise would be especially useful and healthy. It seems important to celebrate accomplishments -- to share in the joy with others (especially loved ones) and to offer encouragement for future endeavors. I am a confident, self-assured adult woman, but I know I still like it when someone recognizes the work I have done or compliments me on something I too am proud of. It sometimes gives me that extra boost to tackle something difficult in life. Wouldn't this apply to children too? Again, I understand the idea behind not offering excessive, hollow praise, but occasionally it seems like such encouragement may be a really great thing.

I liked all the examples people used. (The spinach thing was funny). But I wonder if any of this could be applied to potty training? I don't want to say to DD, oh I see you peed in the potty. I want to tell her "great job!" Because I know she is working hard on this and I see how excited she is when she gets that pee in the potty. I want to share in the joy of that moment with her. What is wrong with "rewarding" her in this context with some praise. (She also gets a stamp and sticker). Is potty training different than drawing a picture or helping to clean up or whatever it is? What if I reserve "great job" just for potty training or other big accomplishments?

Also, I wonder what is so possibly detrimental about telling her how her actions make me feel. She is beginning to have a better understanding of how other people have feelings too and I am not quite sure what would be wrong with telling her if her actions make me happy or sad. Of course I am "responsible" for my own feelings and how I respond to them, but as she gets older in some ways isn't she also responsible for how she makes others feel. If she hits someone or abruptly grabs another childs toy and that child starts to cry, it seems to me like it would be appropriate to discuss those feelings -- in a way that uses "evaluative" statements. There needs to be some judgement there -- that is was not a good action to hurt your friend.


----------



## captain crunchy (Mar 29, 2005)

Quote:

*Any feeling that I have is not created in me by my children. I may feel enjoyment or anger or joy or appreciation or frustration in response to what my child does, but those feelings are not created by my child. That is important, both for me to understand and for my children to understand. If my one of my kids hits the other over the head, I will feel anger-but that anger is not something my child has produced in me. The anger arises because I am witnessing something that is not in harmony with my values and needs: I value living in a peaceful home and I need to know everyone in my family is safe, so when one child is hitting another my needs for peace and safety aren't met, giving rise to frustration, some fear and anger. That feeling of anger is not something my child has produced, it is something that comes from within myself. I may then request that my child do something (like touch gently, use words) to help meet my needs (but not place that responsibility on my child alone) for safety and peace. If my children decide spontaneously to mop the floor, I do feel appreciation and gratitude and joy-but those feelings are not created by my children, they are feelings that arise in response to my needs being met and the pleasure I take in parenting. I think this is a very important distinction, and it is very liberating. Others do not make us feel, we feel what we feel because of our own values and needs (met or unmet). And when we do feel, we can look within to understand why we feel this way and (if necessary) what we need in order to feel better. And we can learn that we do not have to depend on others to meet our needs so that we feel good. I believe we can fully and genuinely communicate about our feelings and needs without blaming others (even for our good feelings).*

I don't think "I love the spinach" is praise, and I don't think it's evaluative. I think it's an expression of one's experience. I don't think we have to be so bland as to restrict ourselves to saying "there's spinach here." Saying "the spinach is good" is an evaluation (and not necessarily a global truth-maybe someone else doesn't think the spinach is good), whereas saying "I enjoyed the spinach" or "I love the spinach" reflects my own experience honestly while leaving room for the opinions of others. I think saying that I enjoy something is different than evaluating it as good or bad.

My kids sometimes ask if I like their artwork, and I will say "I like it." I sometimes also say "I think it's beautiful, I like all those colors". Because I do like it, I do think it's beautiful. What I don't say is "that's a great picture" or "you're a good painter".

It sounds like splitting hairs, but I think it's an important distinction. My experience versus an evaluation. I think kids can understand the difference.

I do agree with rumi that sometimes saying nothing is wonderful.
(emphasis mine)

Sledg, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful post...you articulate how I feel so beautifully!!























ETA: I totally want to print that out and keep it on my fridge.


----------



## mbravebird (May 9, 2005)

Edited because I realized I needed to start a new thread...(see http://www.mothering.com/discussions...06#post5170906)


----------



## meco (Mar 1, 2004)

sledg: I agree. You are very articulate. Your posts were wonderful.

This stood out to me:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sledg*
Any feeling that I have is not created in me by my children. I may feel enjoyment or anger or joy or appreciation or frustration in response to what my child does, but those feelings are not created by my child. That is important, both for me to understand and for my children to understand. If my one of my kids hits the other over the head, I will feel anger-but that anger is not something my child has produced in me. The anger arises because I am witnessing something that is not in harmony with my values and needs: I value living in a peaceful home and I need to know everyone in my family is safe, so when one child is hitting another my needs for peace and safety aren't met, giving rise to frustration, some fear and anger. That feeling of anger is not something my child has produced, it is something that comes from within myself. I may then request that my child do something (like touch gently, use words) to help meet my needs (but not place that responsibility on my child alone) for safety and peace. If my children decide spontaneously to mop the floor, I do feel appreciation and gratitude and joy-but those feelings are not created by my children, they are feelings that arise in response to my needs being met and the pleasure I take in parenting. I think this is a very important distinction, and it is very liberating. Others do not make us feel, we feel what we feel because of our own values and needs (met or unmet). And when we do feel, we can look within to understand why we feel this way and (if necessary) what we need in order to feel better. And we can learn that we do not have to depend on others to meet our needs so that we feel good. I believe we can fully and genuinely communicate about our feelings and needs without blaming others (even for our good feelings).

Right on.


----------



## Kontessa (Nov 5, 2005)

Those who have read the books and practice NVC or something to the likeing, have noticed how much the details have helped them and those around them. Those who are new the idea, like so many of us, seem to fight it. Some are thinking that not being concerned about the details because things are fine as is might not know what they are missing? I certianly had no idea what I was missing and could not see then what I would gain. Like others I was fighting it even though I wanted it badly. It has been months and still I am not at the level of others here. I have hope though and I love hearing about how NVC is helping others.

I have been trying to work on my negative judgements and have not gone too much into the other kinds of violence. I do use "Good Girl for picking up your toys" It is so old hat it is hard to break out of. "Your so smart" is a common one when she is homeschooling and shows me something I had no idea she already knew.

So, basics are: Say what you see! You can then add what you feel connected to the need it fills.

Can someone help me out with the following:

"Chrissy, you vacuumed the living room! Thank you! I feel joyed that you are helping me get things clean."

And also

Child: Look at my rocks mommy, aren't they beautful!? (painted)
Mommy: They are beautiful and I think they will look great in the front yard!

I am enjoying this thread a great deal and feel like it is helping me connect better to my understanding of NVC and parenting.

Blessings,
Kimmy


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I have enjoyed this thread. (appreciative)

I feel glad when you discuss using NVC. (evaluative)

"I feel (blank) when xyz happens" is different than "I feel blank when YOU do xyz". My feeling is an internal reaction in the first. The second indicates that my feeling is caused by another person.

For example, I feel angry when I am hit. vs. I feel angry when you hit me.

I have loved Sledg's posts. (praise)

Pat


----------

