# What should I respond to a Pro-Pearl friend?



## godusjourney (Apr 11, 2006)

Hi guys,

I posted the Parenting for a Peaceful World video on my facebook thing, and I had a good friend email me almost immediately after. She very (very) kindly explained that she generally liked the video, but then went on to thoroughly explain why she disagreed with the video, and explained her Pearl methods of disciplining (with love of course, which I believe - she's a loving person). I adore this friend, and wouldn't care to start an argument or disagreement, but since she decided to explain to me I feel a need to respond to her. I've never seen her hurt her children in my presence, though I've seen her demand perfect obedience (and go on to me about how children should be nothing but obedient).

Any thoughts?

TIA!


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## Tdunahoo (Apr 10, 2008)

Could you give us a better idea of what she said, other than she uses "pearl parenting"?

I found, while watching that video, that there wasn't much you could argue about even if you did use physical punishment (I think only one sentence said we should not use corporal punishment) and the rest talked more about conditions and things that were done to children in the past.

Since I don't know what arguments she made against the video, you could just nicely explain that you personally feel that using physical punishment is harmful to the development of a child and that you've found better ways to discipline your children without hurting them or coercing them. You just need to tell her why you feel GD is important and how you feel it has worked for your family.

Good Luck.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

I always like to point out that Michael Pearl advises women to take their husbands back even after said husbands sexually abuse their children. The Pearls are the same people who say to start spanking at four months. I could go on and on.

I understand that some people say they just take the good ideas and leave the rest, but with the Pearls, I think there's enough sh*t mixed in to ruin the pudding, so to speak.


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## fairejour (Apr 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
I *always like to point out that Michael Pearl advises women to take their husbands back even after said husbands sexually abuse their children.* The Pearls are the same people who say to start spanking at four months. I could go on and on.

I understand that some people say they just take the good ideas and leave the rest, but with the Pearls, I think there's enough sh*t mixed in to ruin the pudding, so to speak.









: Are you kidding me????


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## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
I always like to point out that Michael Pearl advises women to take their husbands back even after said husbands sexually abuse their children. *The Pearls are the same people who say to start spanking at four months.* I could go on and on.

I understand that some people say they just take the good ideas and leave the rest, but with the Pearls, I think there's enough sh*t mixed in to ruin the pudding, so to speak.

And the method to spank your 4-12 month old child is to lash them with a 10-12 inch stick. They recommend putting inticing objects in front of babies in order to provide opportunities to "spank" them daily. Makes me nauseas









I'm not saying your friend does this, it just breaks my heart to think about people who take this man as an authority on parenting.


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## Mamafreya (May 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
I always like to point out that Michael Pearl advises women to take their husbands back even after said husbands sexually abuse their children. The Pearls are the same people who say to start spanking at four months. I could go on and on.

I understand that some people say they just take the good ideas and leave the rest, but with the Pearls, I think there's enough sh*t mixed in to ruin the pudding, so to speak.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Agatha_Ann* 
And the method to spank your 4-12 month old child is to lash them with a 10-12 inch stick. They recommend putting inticing objects in front of babies in order to provide opportunities to "spank" them daily. Makes me nauseas









I'm not saying your friend does this, it just breaks my heart to think about people who take this man as an authority on parenting.

OMG.







I have never heard of the Pearls. I can't believe Sh!t like this actually exists. This discipline philosophy sounds a lot like something you'd find where I grew up. There were a whole lot of weird Christian sects that did a lot of stuff like this. So sad.







What is wrong with people?


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## mamakah (Nov 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Agatha_Ann* 
And the method to spank your 4-12 month old child is to lash them with a 10-12 inch stick. They recommend putting inticing objects in front of babies in order to provide opportunities to "spank" them daily. Makes me nauseas









I'm not saying your friend does this, it just breaks my heart to think about people who take this man as an authority on parenting.









uke







Poor babies. Ugh, that just makes me physically ill.
OP- that would have been enough to really really turn me off to that person. If you want to stay friends with her, there really isn't much you can do or say without it being a attack/argument. She is obviously proud of her parenting style and felt the need to tell you about it. Interesting. ugh.


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## labdogs42 (Jan 21, 2009)

I never heard of the Pearls either. Do they have a website? Books? I feel like I need to set anyone straight who thinks their philosophies might be good! That just sounds awful!

I'm afraid you'll have a hard time hanging out with that friend and your respective children, if she truly parents that way.


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## *~Danielle~* (Mar 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
I always like to point out that Michael Pearl advises women to take their husbands back even after said husbands sexually abuse their children.

Can you site where you got this information from? It might be helpful for anyone wanting to retell this, to know exactly where the info came from so they sound more credible than just, so and so on mothering.com told me that blah, blah, blah. You get the idea.


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## MamaRabbit (May 26, 2005)

I skimmed Created to Be his Helpmeet and it's right in there. My SIL gave it to me .... nice throw-up material :S

I've read To Train Up a Child. It was also a gift. It was horrible!

Many in Christian circles adore Pearl. Look up No Greater Joy ministries. So nice and perfect and sweet looking from the outside. Hell from the inside. He twists scripture and writes with authority. I've seen so much of "if it's written by a Christian, and I'm a Christian, than this book is fine" without questioning the content.

Look up Gentle Christian Mothering forum and there's a whole section dedicated to gentle discipline and disputing the Pearl methods.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I guess your response will depend on what your goal is. I doubt you will be able to changer her parenting methods, and I assume you aren't looking to change yours. (If you are, please look in a different direction than the Pearls!) So, I think I would go back and say something like "This is a very different approach than mine, and I have some fundamental disagreements with it. However, I want to remain friends and so I hope we can respectfully agree to disagree and refrain from exchanging parenting advise since I think that would only lead to arguments and unpleasantness."

Now, if she insists on disciplining her kids in your presense you might have some hard decisions to make in the future. And if she ever decides to discipline yours, then I suspect you would need to end the friendship to protect your kids. Personally I would put this friend in the category of people that I would not leave my children alone with for fear of what they might see or experience unsupervised in that home.


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## Quickbeam (Jan 6, 2009)

Quote:

Look up Gentle Christian Mothering forum and there's a whole section dedicated to gentle discipline and disputing the Pearl methods.
I second this. They have a subforum dedicated to parents who are recovering from the evil- and it is evil- influence of the Pearls. You might check there for practical tips on dealing gently with your friend. Best wishes.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **~Danielle~** 
Can you site where you got this information from? It might be helpful for anyone wanting to retell this, to know exactly where the info came from so they sound more credible than just, so and so on mothering.com told me that blah, blah, blah. You get the idea.

It is at the bottom of an article they wrote entitled "Abusive Husband."

Here is the link. I'm breaking the link, so you can put it back together to go read it. I would like to say that I *do not recommend* reading anything written by the Pearls. I read some of it as research years back and it kept coming back to me, like "They can get kids to behave. Why won't my kids behave? Maybe I should try some of it..."

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/general-view
/archive/1999/september/01/abusive-husband/

Here's the paragraph I was referring to:

Quote:

if your husband has sexually molested the children, you should approach him with it. If he is truly repentant (not just exposed) and is willing to seek counseling, you may feel comfortable giving him an opportunity to prove himself, as long as you know the children are safe. If there is any thought that they are not safe, or if he is not repentant and willing to seek help, then go to the law and have him arrested. Stick by him, but testify against him in court. Have him do about 10 to 20 years, and by the time he gets out, you will have raised the kids, and you can be waiting for him...


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## twirlygirl (Sep 26, 2006)

I've just googled the Pearls and found this http://www.gospeltruth.net/children/pearl_tuac.htm

I'm gobsmacked that they hit a 4 month old to stop her climbing the stairs. "But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of "No" with little spats on the bare legs. The switch was a twelve-inch long, one-eighth-inch diameter sprig from a willow tree."


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

As a quick note, the Pearls are a freaky minority. I don't want anyone thinking that they're the "norm" or mainstream Christian authors. Most Christians would rather pretend they don't exist.


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## MamaRabbit (May 26, 2005)

^^^^ I wish. It's the norm among my circles unfortunately.


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## Treece (Apr 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godusjourney* 
I've never seen her hurt her children in my presence, though I've seen her demand perfect obedience (and go on to me about how children should be nothing but obedient).

My response to this is really? One thing that children have to learn to do is say no. They have to in this world. And at an increasingly (decreasingly?) earlier age than nay of us. Drugs, violence, sex, whatever, they are exposed to alot in this society. One thing that unquestioning obedience teaches (I think) is how to be a "Yes Man." That can have dire consequences.

I would point her towards the Gentle Christian Mothers forum also. I am not Christian, but I have skimmed it, and from what I saw, it is good.


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## Treece (Apr 5, 2006)

Quote:

if your husband has sexually molested the children, you should approach him with it. If he is truly repentant (not just exposed) and is willing to seek counseling, you may feel comfortable giving him an opportunity to prove himself, as long as you know the children are safe. If there is any thought that they are not safe, or if he is not repentant and willing to seek help, then go to the law and have him arrested. Stick by him, but testify against him in court. Have him do about 10 to 20 years, and by the time he gets out, you will have raised the kids, and you can be waiting for him...:
uke


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## runes (Aug 5, 2004)

Well if her/the Pearl's method "worked", why does she have to "demand" obedience from her children?


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
Well if her/the Pearl's method "worked", why does she have to "demand" obedience from her children?

Love it! I was going to say it, but you beat me to it!


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## labdogs42 (Jan 21, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *twirlygirl* 
I've just googled the Pearls and found this http://www.gospeltruth.net/children/pearl_tuac.htm

I'm gobsmacked that they hit a 4 month old to stop her climbing the stairs. "But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of "No" with little spats on the bare legs. The switch was a twelve-inch long, one-eighth-inch diameter sprig from a willow tree."









I only got as far as this fantastic quote before I had to stop reading. Who in the world thinks THIS is fantastic parenting????

"Another mother walks in with her little ones and sits down to talk. She says to them, "Go out in the sun-room to play and don't bother Mama unless you need something." For the next two hours we are not even aware the children are present--except when a little one comes in holding herself saying, "Pee-pee, Mama." They play together well, resolve their own conflicts and don't expect attention when one turns the rocking horse over and gets a knot on her head. They don't come in and out--they have been told not to."

Yes, let's teach our children to not even come to us for help when they fall off the rocking horse and get a knot on their heads. Yes, that is a FANTASTIC idea.


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## Mamafreya (May 13, 2004)

I couldn't read that much. That made me feel sick. There are people out there who actually follow this? I mean, this is a popular parenting philosophy?







It's disgusting and IMO most of the stuff I did read was child abuse. I cannot believe that a rational decent human being would read this and think, ooooh what a great idea. This is just so sad. These poor poor children.

How long have the Pearls been around and writing books? I ask because there are striking similarities to this and how my MIL raised her kids. I wonder if she practiced this. Also she is very very religious so I wonder....


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

The Pearls wrote their first book in 1994, but the ideas they promote have been around a lot longer. Other books by other authors have been published probably since the begining of the history of books.


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## yarngoddess (Dec 27, 2006)

I have known parents that use this line of thought. In both their marriage and parenting skills. It's discusting, IMHO.

OP- for ME this would be an ultimate deal breaker for this friendship. I would ask her if she follows this set of practices, the swats and all the grotesque ideas. If the answer is yes, then the friendship would be no-more. I would also be tempted to call CPS as well







Don't know that I would, but I sure as hell would think about it. I don't need friends to be JUST like me in parenting...but this is beyond a "difference of opinion" this is abuse (IMO again) and I couldn't be friends with someone that abuses their children. And brags about it. Openly disagrees with you about feeling a need to respond to your child!!! You didn't ask for parenting advice, you posted a video that you liked. that's what FB is about! I couldn't be friends with such a person. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this!!!


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## MamaRabbit (May 26, 2005)

^^^ This is an area I struggle with. I don't know ANYONE here (among friend circles that is) that does gentle discipline, and most do some form of Pearl/Ezzo/Dobson. Whenever the discussions start up I just excuse myself for the conversation and go do something else. I have in the past stated my beliefs and been attacked/berated for them. Are they friends of mine? After all this time, I still feel like acquaintances because I cannot bring myself to form a bond with these women who parent like that.


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## AutumnAir (Jun 10, 2008)

Fortunately this kind of thing (Pearls, Ezzos, etc) is far less popular where I am (at least that i know of) but I have to say that if a friend of mine was practising this type of 'parenting' we would no longer be friends. I would send her some information about GD and AP and the damage that can be done by the nonsense she is following, but I would have to cut her out of my life - for my own sake and the sake of DD. As yarngoddess said, this type of thing is more than a difference in parenting philosophy - it's child abuse masquerading as religion, IMHO.


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## peainthepod (Jul 16, 2008)

Quote:

if your husband has sexually molested the children, you should approach him with it. If he is truly repentant (not just exposed) and is willing to seek counseling, you may feel comfortable giving him an opportunity to prove himself, as long as you know the children are safe. If there is any thought that they are not safe, or if he is not repentant and willing to seek help, then go to the law and have him arrested. Stick by him, but testify against him in court. Have him do about 10 to 20 years, and by the time he gets out, you will have raised the kids, and you can be waiting for him...
There's so much wrong with this single paragraph that I'm having trouble believing it's even real. It reads like a nasty joke. WTF


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peainthepod* 
There's so much wrong with this single paragraph that I'm having trouble believing it's even real. It reads like a nasty joke. WTF

There's one thing that I know isn't real. Child molestors rarely get 5 years let alone 10 to 20.

Debbi's pearls of wisdom (yeah yeah I can't help a pun) are hardly wise at all. I have no problem with a woman choosing to submit to her husband, but she takes it past the point of intellegent choice. Though one thing to understand is that her husband "helped" her write the book. She admits this (either on the website or in the book itself or both I can't remember which). She basically checked with him on each chapter to make sure it was "right".


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## MamaRabbit (May 26, 2005)

And it's not her pearls of wisdom, it's her husbands. Nothing she wrote in her book was done without his full approval.


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## dulce de leche (Mar 13, 2005)

The Pearl's stuff is quite possibly the vilest thing I have ever read, although for me, it led to something good. I grew up with spanking and expected to spank my children. Our PEDIATRICIAN (!!!!! to show how prevelent their methods are where I live) gave us a copy of TTUAC at dd1's 6mo WBV, because he "could tell she was strong willed". I was so sickened by it that I began to look at the whole issue of discipline, and none of our children have ever been punished. And, needless to say, we never went back to that ped. I actually filed a report with the medical board over it.


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## MamaRabbit (May 26, 2005)

: That is insane!!! Good for you reporting it!


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## jt'smum (Apr 13, 2004)

WHAT? I have never heard of the Pearls either. Now I must go google them...Just from some of the posts about them it makes me want to hurl.


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## godusjourney (Apr 11, 2006)

I just came to check in and whoa! tons of replies! Thanks everyone!

I'm still on the fence as to what to do. She and I have truly bonded on so much else, and it's really hard to find a decent friend around here. In fact, last night they showed up in our city (they live 1.5 hrs away) and stayed the night with us. It strikes me as interesting, but I noticed that she was being really loving and attentive with her children. She posted the day after her email that she just found a great parenting book "The Power of Positive Parenting". She also made a comment while at our house that she really liked a video I posted a while about about "praising" efforts instead of skill (Alfie Kohn style). I think I might be rubbing off on her - something you wouldn't expect from someone following that dogma, but she is very loving and open minded. She's already followed me on a few other things. I have hope. I've written a nice long, kind email, and I'm sleeping on it for a while before sending it. If I am truly rubbing off onto her, then I wouldn't want to disrupt that. She seemed less strict, less bent on obedience, and more allowing than she has in the past. It was pretty cool.

I don't think she does strict Pearl methods. She trains here and there with thumps on the hand with her fingers, but from what I can tell it's very rare and sort of as an afterthought. She's never disciplined my children, and they're never alone with her. She's kind and loving to them, and not in a creepy control way. I'm still trying to debate it out in my head, but I will figure out a way to guide her lovingly in the best possible way that might actually have some effect. They're so alternative parenting/living in almost every other way.

I know lots of about child training (I've read a couple of the books, too, for understanding - and yes it does creep into your head sometimes, as a word of warning). My sister is a child educator and has used it on her 9 living children, her preschool kids, and tried to use it on me as a kid (we're 21 years apart). It's creepy to say the least. So, I've had experience with it from a kid's perspective - and I will say that it is the most controlled I've ever felt in my life (and I was raised by an abusive mom), and often caused mini-panic attacks. She's now in a third world country starting a home for abandoned children, and I guarantee she'll be using this method on them. Although, from my perspective, her method is creepier than the Pearls. She's mixed Dobson, Pearl, and her own perspective of "happiness." She thinks all the suffering in the world is because parents didn't train their kids to be happy. Basically she puts kids in timeout for anything other than a perfectly happy attitude. And they stay in timeout for as long as need be until they're ready to declare "I'm Happy!" So that means, if they refuse to eat the food they're given, they are either forced to eat it morning, noon and night, or they spend a horrible amount of time in time out until they agree to eat it. That could be 5 min. or 2 hours. We stayed the night there once, and the next morning her 3 year old was laying on the floor with her mouth by the crack in her closed door saying over and over for about a half an hour "Mommy, I happy! Mommy, I happy!" as my sister was getting dressed and completely ignoring her. Basically the kid wasn't allowed to leave her bedroom in the morning unless she was A) happy and B) my sister was good and ready to let her out. I had a panic attack and left to go shopping to get away from the psycho atmosphere. I just wanted to pick the sweet little girl up and tell her I loved her no matter how she felt or acted.

Anyway, yes, child training is disgusting, cruel, and only teaches the child to conform and be robots...and the worst part, be absolutely terrified of any sort of authority (especially the parents). Because who knows what they'll do to you.

Ugh. My momma bear button was just pushed.


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## Treece (Apr 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godusjourney* 
She's mixed Dobson, Pearl, and her own perspective of "happiness." She thinks all the suffering in the world is because parents didn't train their kids to be happy. Basically she puts kids in timeout for anything other than a perfectly happy attitude. And they stay in timeout for as long as need be until they're ready to declare "I'm Happy!" So that means, if they refuse to eat the food they're given, they are either forced to eat it morning, noon and night, or they spend a horrible amount of time in time out until they agree to eat it. That could be 5 min. or 2 hours. We stayed the night there once, and the next morning her 3 year old was laying on the floor with her mouth by the crack in her closed door saying over and over for about a half an hour "Mommy, I happy! Mommy, I happy!" as my sister was getting dressed and completely ignoring her. Basically the kid wasn't allowed to leave her bedroom in the morning unless she was A) happy and B) my sister was good and ready to let her out. I had a panic attack and left to go shopping to get away from the psycho atmosphere. I just wanted to pick the sweet little girl up and tell her I loved her no matter how she felt or acted.

THIS is emotional abuse. EVERYONE has the right, by birth, to feel whatever emotion they feel. NO ONE, not even their mother, has the right to stop them. I


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## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godusjourney* 
We stayed the night there once, and the next morning her 3 year old was laying on the floor with her mouth by the crack in her closed door saying over and over for about a half an hour "Mommy, I happy! Mommy, I happy!" as my sister was getting dressed and completely ignoring her. Basically the kid wasn't allowed to leave her bedroom in the morning unless she was A) happy and B) my sister was good and ready to let her out.









i'm totally tearing up here, this is so sad and awful i can't believe it. i feel sick.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Wow. I'm creeped out and disgusted by that last story.

BUT, as for the friend in the OP. I'd probably try to say in a friendly way (particularly since she seems to not be at all hard core) something when she brought up the Pearls like, "I have some strong feelings about the Pearls and we might not want to get into a discussion about them." But I'd try to keep my tone kind of light. If you are gentle with her, but still keep boundaries, you might have some influence. But if you're firm that you won't get started discussing the supposed benefits of the Pearls, she might ask some questions and maybe you can gently give a few reasons. In a way that doesn't make her feel accused.


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## Harmony08 (Feb 4, 2009)

i'm disturbed now


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## Harmony08 (Feb 4, 2009)

i can't even read the whole thread. To answer the OP...I honestly do not think I could continue a friendship with a woman who did that to her children. How does CPS not stop these people?


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

I feel physically ill.


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## mamarootoo (Sep 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
The Pearls wrote their first book in 1994, but the ideas they promote have been around a lot longer. Other books by other authors have been published probably since the begining of the history of books.

1994?! i'd never heard of the Pearls before this thread, and i just assumed it was a turn of the century thing that had come back into style.

this whole thread makes me so sad. i can't even respond to the last story about OP's sister without getting myself banned.


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## Mamafreya (May 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamarootoo* 
1994?! i'd never heard of the Pearls before this thread, and i just assumed it was a turn of the century thing that had come back into style.









Yeah, me too. I guess I can't blame MIL's parenting on the Pearls but it's awful that she had so many things in common with their crappy book. Ugh, this is vile and sick stuff....

OP, it sounds like maybe there's some hope for your friend and I would do what the other's suggested with being gentle and introducing her to some other parenting ideals. I hope she sees the light. Sheesh.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
I always like to point out that Michael Pearl advises women to take their husbands back even after said husbands sexually abuse their children. The Pearls are the same people who say to start spanking at four months. I could go on and on.

I understand that some people say they just take the good ideas and leave the rest, but with the Pearls, I think there's enough sh*t mixed in to ruin the pudding, so to speak.

omg
i knew of them, and that they advocated hitting babies, but wow. that's just, wow.


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## Lovemy3babies (Apr 23, 2007)

Actually, the Pearls do not advocate taking your husbands side is he sexually abuses your children. I have read a few of their books, and that is not in there, and the opposite is true actually.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

Guess you didn't read the quote that was posted in this post?


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lovemy3babies* 
Actually, the Pearls do not advocate taking your husbands side is he sexually abuses your children. I have read a few of their books, and that is not in there, and the opposite is true actually.

It's in an article on their website.


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## mamarootoo (Sep 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lovemy3babies* 
Actually, the Pearls do not advocate taking your husbands side is he sexually abuses your children. I have read a few of their books, and that is not in there, and the opposite is true actually.

read this article. it's the same one the PP quoted, but the link was broken for some reason.

"But if your husband has sexually molested the children, [...]you can be waiting for him with open arms of forgiveness and restitution. Will this glorify God? Forever. You ask, "What if he doesn't repent even then?" Then you will be rewarded in heaven equal to the martyrs, and God will have something to rub in the Devil's face. God hates divorce-always, forever, regardless, without exception."

it's hard to talk about this w/out going into a religious discussion, but the whole article just makes me so sad. my heart breaks for the women and children involved in this kind lifestyle.


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

Quote:

if a friend of mine was practising this type of 'parenting' we would no longer be friends
Wow. I find this sad because when I first became a parent and was extremely confused and most of my mother's friends, who were kind to me and had sweet children, gave me advice, they were "Pearlites". Now I found my way out of it very quickly, but that was thanks to wonderful people who didn't judge me as evil and dump me like a dirty sock, but rather helped me trust my own intuition as a mother.

It's one thing to talk about how much you dislike the Pearl's, but they dangle the delectable promise of peaceful parents and well-behaved kids; and to harshly judge people who are confused about how to obtain that will not help their situation.

To me there is not much of a difference between a person who says "If you spank your kids, I won't be your friend" and a person who says "If you don't spank your kids, I won't be your friend". Both believe they are right and you are wrong and if you don't see things their way you're not worth their time.

My strategy in friendship is a deep knowing inside that this person was put in my life for a reason and while we may have differences, maybe I am in their life to help them on their spiritual journey.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momma_unlimited* 

To me there is not much of a difference between a person who says "If you spank your kids, I won't be your friend" and a person who says "If you don't spank your kids, I won't be your friend". Both believe they are right and you are wrong and if you don't see things their way you're not worth their time.

Well, first the PP didn't say she would actually say that. Just that she wouldn't remain friends. But regardless, I do see a big difference between those statements. "If you do something bad, I won't be your friend" and "If you don't do something bad, I won't be your friend" are very different. In some cases one person IS right and the other IS wrong. I don't feel that way about a lot of things, but I do about spanking. And it isn't necessarily "not worth their time" so much as "not wanting to be around a toxic environment." I find an environment where people are hitting their kids to be toxic and wouldn't stick around.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Sorry I couldn't be friends with someone who emotionally and physically abuses their kids. I think it is fine to have judgement and personal values. In fact, I think it is pretty silly to not have personal values and judgements. If society ostracized abusive parents and abusive spouses, then perhaps the message that abuse is not okay would finally sink in.


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

Ultimately, sounds like the OP feels like this woman *is* meant to be her friend, and values other qualities and characteristics of her. If that's how she feels, I think she should trust herself and continue to be a friend. If that's not how others feel, they should trust themselves and insulate themselves from people whose actions make them feel toxic.

I just had to watch my son be strapped down on an emergency room table and get a needle stuck in him, and I did it because I knew it would help him in the long run (it was local aneshetic for stitches). It made me think about the things we allow our children to endure for the benefit they will gain. I thought about people who aren't exposed to other parenting tools, and think that the momentary pain of a spanking would truly help their child avoid horrible character pitfalls. Maybe, if you didn't know other better tools existed, and you had no other ideas because that is what your parents did with you and *you* turned out ok, you wouldn't question it... Until an experience or person came along that turned a light bulb on in your brain.

My parents spanked me Dobson style, never angry or harshly, and they never once yelled at me in their entire lives. I never felt "abused". I remember going to kids houses who would say "My parents never spank me". Then their mom would start flipping out yelling at them and I would be afraid and want to leave. That left me with a strong impression that I would rather parent like my parents then parents who just screamed and seemed berserk.

UNTIL I MET PARENTS WHO DIDN'T SPANK OR YELL! A novel idea!! Had never known such people existed!

Now I am happy to have read books like "Non-Violent Communication" and "Liberated Parents, Liberated Children". What great tools! So glad I met lovely mommas who shared these resources with me! I hope to return the favor!

I think ultimately I am asking people to consider- rather than viewing a person as "wrong" for what they do- take a good look and see if its a person who is open to suggestions and personal improvement. Maybe they are not so much "wrong" as "clueless" (or maybe it would be more conducive to the situation to use that perspective)...


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

If you are referring to my post, I was referring less to the op and more to the general idea that it is wrong to judge or limit friendships based on something liek spanking, which for some people is 100% wrong.


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

Quote:

If society ostracized abusive parents and abusive spouses, then perhaps the message that abuse is not okay would finally sink in.
People who ostracize me are the least likely to impact me with their opinions or ideas.


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

Maybe my tragic flaw in this conversation is that I try to apply GD principles in all my relationships, not just with my kids. I understand it is not my job to discipline other people, but I do like to interact with them in non-punitive, non-violently communicative, creative ways- just like I try to interact with my kids. I try to inspire positive behaviour, not reject bad behaviour, because positive reinforcement seems to effect really great change. If that doesn't work, I try to remove myself- the same thing I do with my kids. I hardly ever need to though.

Maybe most people just use these ideas on their kids and have a whole different set of rules for adult relationships.


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## yogafeet (Jul 3, 2007)

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/418676.html


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## jeliphish (Jul 18, 2007)

"if your husband has sexually molested the children, you should approach him with it. If he is truly repentant (not just exposed) and is willing to seek counseling, you may feel comfortable giving him an opportunity to prove himself, as long as you know the children are safe. If there is any thought that they are not safe, or if he is not repentant and willing to seek help, then go to the law and have him arrested. Stick by him, but testify against him in court. Have him do about 10 to 20 years, and by the time he gets out, you will have raised the kids, and you can be waiting for him...:"

*This is why CPS can be such a good thing... A sexual predator who offends against his children are the worst, and they will NEVER be able to be cured. A mom who would continue to expose her children to her husband who has "repented" is just as bad as he is.*


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momma_unlimited* 
People who ostracize me are the least likely to impact me with their opinions or ideas.

I am not interested in being gd with people or impacting their ideas. How far do you take this? Are you going to befriend rapists, molesters, murderers? Everyone has their own line.


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

Quote:

Are you going to befriend rapists, molesters, murderers?
In this situation, we are talking about someone who already is your friend. Then you find out they practice (not a one-time thing) something you think is wrong. I would not remain in contact with someone who was practicing murder, rape or molestation- it would not be safe.

I have had friends who engaged in adultery, which I find deceitful and hurtful. I didn't write them off for life, no. I guess I've made enough mistakes in my life, and had friends who saw potential and stuck by me anyways, that I would hope to keep the lines of communication open in hopes that I could help them on their journey or at least be there when they decide to end the hurtful behaviour. Sometimes I might take a few weeks off from talking to them if their behaviour is upsetting me; but I spend that time praying for them. I guess, I think that if Jesus saw potential and chose to die for sinners who committed atrocious acts, even while they were "yet sinners", maybe I can still be loving towards a person while not condoning their actions.

On the other end of the spectrum, what if you find out a person is downloading music or movies illegally and hurting other people's livelihoods? Is that "bad" enough to end your friendship? How about if they are your neighbor who you've been friends with, and they start burning trash on their property and it pollutes the environment near you? What if your friend lets their child drink soda often, which you know is leaching calcium from their bones and potentially setting them up for juvenile diabetes? Friend no more? You *do* have to draw a line, and as I said earlier- trust your own gut. If you feel that this person is in your life for a reason, and maybe you will be the inspiration to make positive changes in their family, go with it! And if you feel like they are toxic in your life, trust that instinct too. I just want to point out that it was people who didn't write me off that helped me embrace GD. Maybe the OP is in a similar situation. If she is, I encourage her to be a light in the parental darkness.


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## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Especially as your friend seems to be edging toward a discipline style more like yours, you might want to point her toward http://aolff.org/ . I think the mom who runs it also runs the Gentle Christian Mothers list; I know she was a mod on the Positive Discipline list for a long time. Great, great stuff deconstructing the Biblical argument for hitting children (and explaining the Biblical argument for gentle parenting too).


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## chipper26 (Sep 4, 2008)

After reading what the Pearls stand for, I don't think I could remain friends with this woman.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

As far as the friends thing goes, to me it would depend on whether the friend who did these things truly believed that this was the best or only way to raise their children to be respectful, capable adults, or if she did these things to make life easier for her. I think that is where the line is for me. The former type person could possibly be influenced by your actions, and likely WOULD, because her goal is to raise her children the best way she knows how. When you know better, you do better. Everyone makes mistakes, and some of these ideas are so engrained into our minds that it takes active energy to make a change. The latter, however, has selfish motives and is looking at things in the short term. It is not her children's best interests she has in mind (though she may insist it is) but her own comfort. I think that is the major difference, and where I, personally, draw the line.
OP, it sounds like your friend is the former. Hopefully she will continue to learn gentle means to help her children succeed. It's not always easy to challenge your ways of thinking, especially those which have been with you from an early age.


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## jimblejamble (May 18, 2007)

They have a website (nogreaterjoy.org) and have a bunch of books, including "Created to Be His Helpmeet" and "To Train Up a Child". They have some, err...interesting beliefs to say the least.

http://createdtobehelpmeet.blogspot.com/ This blog has rebuttals to what they say in the Created To Be His Helpmeet book.


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## Cersha (Jun 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JessicaRenee* 
They have a website (nogreaterjoy.org) and have a bunch of books, including "Created to Be His Helpmeet" and "To Train Up a Child". They have some, err...interesting beliefs to say the least.

http://createdtobehelpmeet.blogspot.com/ This blog has rebuttals to what they say in the Created To Be His Helpmeet book.

I'm only halfway through this link, but it's AWESOME. Thanks for posting it.


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## Quickbeam (Jan 6, 2009)

To the OP: You are already in a relationship with her, be it friend or mentor or whatever. It seems like you have reservations about her but you care for her and want to continue knowing her. Since she is never alone with your children and she isn't in a position to discipline them, why not try to offer her what you have in terms of parenting skills? As previous posters mentioned, you may be the only mama she knows who parents gently. Stay strong and good luck


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## peaceful_mama (May 27, 2005)

I say stay friends.

Why? Because at one time, I was a mom with a baby who "couldn't nurse."

If the people I met when I tried to go to LLL for help (nobody *there* knew what to do with us either) had refused to speak to me after I pulled out a bottle at a meeting, I might not have gone on to breastfeed 2 subsequent babies. I would definently not have "allowed" my 2 yr old to "unwean" a few weeks ago. I would not have had my beautiful home waterbirth. I would be a lot less 'gentle' than I am with my kids. (I'm far from perfect, I yell too much, but....when I have tried something like time-out or even spanking, I have support for NOT doing it in the form of seeing all these great kids who are not spanked or time-out-ed.)I would be an entirely different mom than I am today.

She *needs* a friend like you to show her there's another way.


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## mamarootoo (Sep 16, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *peaceful_mama* 
I say stay friends.

Why? Because at one time, I was a mom with a baby who "couldn't nurse."

If the people I met when I tried to go to LLL for help (nobody *there* knew what to do with us either) had refused to speak to me after I pulled out a bottle at a meeting, I might not have gone on to breastfeed 2 subsequent babies. I would definently not have "allowed" my 2 yr old to "unwean" a few weeks ago. I would not have had my beautiful home waterbirth. I would be a lot less 'gentle' than I am with my kids. (I'm far from perfect, I yell too much, but....when I have tried something like time-out or even spanking, I have support for NOT doing it in the form of seeing all these great kids who are not spanked or time-out-ed.)I would be an entirely different mom than I am today.

She *needs* a friend like you to show her there's another way.

thanks for this. i think the Pearl's ideas are repulsive, but this post really brings the it back to the human aspect of the OP's post.


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## Ambystoma (Mar 26, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JessicaRenee* 
They have a website (nogreaterjoy.org) and have a bunch of books, including "Created to Be His Helpmeet" and "To Train Up a Child". They have some, err...interesting beliefs to say the least.

http://createdtobehelpmeet.blogspot.com/ This blog has rebuttals to what they say in the Created To Be His Helpmeet book.









WOW is all I can say! I had no idea people thought this way. I know this can't be a mainstream "Christian" thought, but it's still scary that it's out there. I'm pagan, but with some bad christian background, and I have heard some crazy stuff from some relatives with views similar to Dobson, etc, but really hope my family doesn't view marriage this way. I guess that would explain why my family thinks I'm not a good wife







....but my DH does, and that's what matters.

Anyway, to the OP, it may end up being too hard to stay friends with her if she won't listen to anything you have to say, or even have a conversation about it. But, if you can show her about GD, she may be profoundly affected by your example. And her child certainly will be.


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## Jade's Mom (Aug 8, 2007)

And, as you spend time together, I think there's value in her children seeing an alternative to the way they are treated, even if their mother never comes around (although it sounds like she may be).

I think for kids who are abused, or severely disciplined it can be helpful to see another way and know it's ok to question their own parents tactics (at least to them selves, if not outright). Maybe they will be less likely to think they're "Bad" or maybe when they are parents they will know there are other alternatives.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Godusjourney, it sounds like your friend is one of those people who reads bad parenting advice and then subconciously adjusts it based on how their children respond. She may not see how evil it is because she can't conceive of anyone following it word for word (even as she tells you she does follow it word for word







)


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## Jade's Mom (Aug 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jade's Mom* 
And, as you spend time together, I think there's value in her children seeing an alternative to the way they are treated, even if their mother never comes around (although it sounds like she may be).

I think for kids who are abused, or severely disciplined it can be helpful to see another way and know it's ok to question their own parents tactics (at least to them selves, if not outright). Maybe they will be less likely to think they're "Bad" or maybe when they are parents they will know there are other alternatives.

Ok, I typed that way late last night. It's not nearly as articulate as it was in my head


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Offer *Grace Based Discipline* at *Gentle Christian Mothers*: http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...rystal/gbd.php

Perhaps, ask WWJD?

Pat


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kidspiration* 
Well if her/the Pearl's method "worked", why does she have to "demand" obedience from her children?

BE "careful" with things like this the same could be said for us. The diffrence at least for me I expect kids to well be kids I expect mistakes wrong doings I expect to have to correct teach guide and repeat, I don't view a "quick solution" as always the best. If my rule was don't touch the cup and everytime my child came close I smacked her leg she'd likely stop going for the cup.. As she go older she might come to understand the cup contained posion and I didn't desire her to get sick and she might come to further trust that if I said don't touch Its worth listening and obeying shes might learn to do so from her heart... Does it make me smacking her leg okay? I choose to gently parent because its the right thing not because it "works".

Deanna


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## doublyblessed (Jun 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5* 
I always like to point out that Michael Pearl advises women to take their husbands back even after said husbands sexually abuse their children. The Pearls are the same people who say to start spanking at four months. I could go on and on.

I understand that some people say they just take the good ideas and leave the rest, but with the Pearls, I think there's enough sh*t mixed in to ruin the pudding, so to speak.

YIKES!!! they surely sound demented.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *godusjourney* 
We stayed the night there once, and the next morning her 3 year old was laying on the floor with her mouth by the crack in her closed door saying over and over for about a half an hour "Mommy, I happy! Mommy, I happy!" as my sister was getting dressed and completely ignoring her. Basically the kid wasn't allowed to leave her bedroom in the morning unless she was A) happy and B) my sister was good and ready to let her out.

My heart sank reading this









I have avoided this thread for a while and just now read it. I do wish I had continued to avoid it. I am glad to hear you are having an impact on her. I am willing to be friends with people who parent differently then I do, but when it comes to abuse - to which I include ALL hitting, even a tap on the hand - I have some "rules". Basically - don't tell me about it, and don't do it around me or my children. I understand they may not want to put their parenting "on hold" but nor will I, and so I will say something if this "rule" is broken and I will discontinue a friendship if need be, I am honestly repulsed by the idea of it and probably just knowing so would be hard enough for me - I think at that point I would only remain in contact in hopes they can learn some more gentle ways from watching me, and to be a gentle adult in that child's life... it's so sad... it's such a tough situation...


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momma_unlimited* 
Wow. I find this sad because when I first became a parent and was extremely confused and most of my mother's friends, who were kind to me and had sweet children, gave me advice, they were "Pearlites". Now I found my way out of it very quickly, but that was thanks to wonderful people who didn't judge me as evil and dump me like a dirty sock, but rather helped me trust my own intuition as a mother.

It's one thing to talk about how much you dislike the Pearl's, but they dangle the delectable promise of peaceful parents and well-behaved kids; and to harshly judge people who are confused about how to obtain that will not help their situation.

To me there is not much of a difference between a person who says "If you spank your kids, I won't be your friend" and a person who says "If you don't spank your kids, I won't be your friend". Both believe they are right and you are wrong and if you don't see things their way you're not worth the. My strategy in friendship is a deep knowing inside that this person was put in my life for a reason and while we may have differences, maybe I am in their life to help them on their spiritual journey.

I totally agree.


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## SparklingGemini (Jan 3, 2008)

At least they EC.....

Baby Potty Training

(Not that this really makes their general "training" views OK in my book but I thought it was mildly interesting.)


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SparklingGemini* 
At least they EC.....

Baby Potty Training

(Not that this really makes their general "training" views OK in my book but I thought it was mildly interesting.)


In my mind they really don't rather its just anpther aspect of controll and proving a child is born with a sin complex. There methods also include hosing a child down that has an accident and spanking are totally part of there process to me this is forced PT disguised as EC not true EC.







.


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## *LoveBugMama* (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Treece* 
THIS is emotional abuse. EVERYONE has the right, by birth, to feel whatever emotion they feel. NO ONE, not even their mother, has the right to stop them. I


What she said.









This CAN`T be legal??? HOW can a parent act like this to their sweet, little child??
This thread is making me cry.







I`m just totally in shock over this. I have read about the Pearls before, and it makes me sick every time. WHY is this legal to sell? WHY are these books not taken off the market??


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## *LoveBugMama* (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momma_unlimited* 
I think ultimately I am asking people to consider- rather than viewing a person as "wrong" for what they do- take a good look and see if its a person who is open to suggestions and personal improvement. Maybe they are not so much "wrong" as "clueless" (or maybe it would be more conducive to the situation to use that perspective)...

This. This is what I struggle with. Yeah, people can be clueless. I am for sure clueless in some areas of life. But, noone should be so clueless that they think beating a child is ok.

Some things just ARE WRONG. I mean, these people all live in the western world, right? They have access to tv/other media, newspapers/other people. And I honestly feel that no person living in our diverse western world can use cluelessness as an excuse for beating their 6 month old with a stick. Sorry, I just don`t.

But, then again, I`m one of those people that vehemently (sp?) disagrees with the thought that all parents are "allowed" to chose the discipline technics they feel suits them. Kids are not their parents property. Kids have the right to grow up without being hit spanked or beat, just like a grown person has.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *twirlygirl* 
I've just googled the Pearls and found this http://www.gospeltruth.net/children/pearl_tuac.htm

I'm gobsmacked that they hit a 4 month old to stop her climbing the stairs. "But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of "No" with little spats on the bare legs. The switch was a twelve-inch long, one-eighth-inch diameter sprig from a willow tree."









But, 4 month olds don't climb stairs. 4 month olds aren't even sitting up. There's an error in here somewhere.

(These obedience methods are repugnant, loving people treat dogs better than this. It sucks because I believe parents do this are loving but following very very terrible, evil advice.)


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

What to respond to your friend might be, I heard Pearl uses punishment, spanking and beating children with sticks, etc. I refuse to do that to my kids and choose gentle discipline methods for our family.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

I'll add that this Pearl stuff seems to be "old school" parenting, as in "children should not be seen or heard" or "seen but not heard".

I was talking with a 60+ lady who owns a dance studio. I work for her teaching Zumba fitness classes once a week. She sees a lot of modern parenting (effective and ineffective). She said that when she was growing up, her mother beat the kids with a belt, and they stood there and did not run away. That is old days parenting. When she was raising her kids, she had a wooden spoon, but it was a little more comical and not as harsh, the kids would run away from her and they would also steal and hide the spoon. She did not make her kids stand and take a beating like her mom did. Today, hitting children is nearly always rejected. Nearly. (I actually thought that any hitting with an object is abuse in terms of CPS? Yes? No?) The Pearls sound like throwbacks to the mama using the belt.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Treece* 
My response to this is really? One thing that children have to learn to do is say no. They have to in this world. And at an increasingly (decreasingly?) earlier age than nay of us. Drugs, violence, sex, whatever, they are exposed to alot in this society. One thing that unquestioning obedience teaches (I think) is how to be a "Yes Man." That can have dire consequences.

IME, the parents who demand instant obedience from their children tend to also be the ones who blame those children the most harshly when they're led astray as older kids. They give them no tools for dealing with questionable authority figures, and then come down on them like a freight train for obeying the "wrong" authority. It's sickening.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **LoveBugMama** 
This. This is what I struggle with. Yeah, people can be clueless. I am for sure clueless in some areas of life. But, noone should be so clueless that they think beating a child is ok.

Some things just ARE WRONG. I mean, these people all live in the western world, right? They have access to tv/other media, newspapers/other people. And I honestly feel that no person living in our diverse western world can use cluelessness as an excuse for beating their 6 month old with a stick. Sorry, I just don`t.

But, then again, I`m one of those people that vehemently (sp?) disagrees with the thought that all parents are "allowed" to chose the discipline technics they feel suits them. Kids are not their parents property. Kids have the right to grow up without being hit spanked or beat, just like a grown person has.

But, some people _do_ believe it. They think the lack of harsh discipline, breakdown in the obedience ethic, etc. are the reason for juvenile delinquency, violent crime, drug abuse, etc. etc. etc. I've never met anybody who followed the Pearls (aside from people I've met through MDC, I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who's _heard_ of the Pearls), but I've certainly heard people express a belief that "good" (and they mean harsh) discipline is the only way to raise a good person...and some of them believe it's the only way to raise a _happy_ person. There is a widespread belief in the popular interpretation of "spare the rod, spoil the child", and they don't want to spoil the child.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

This is an old post of mine discussing the obstacle that judgment places in the conflict resolution process.

Quote:

*Help doesn't judge. Judgment doesn't help.*
I totally believe people mean well and are doing what they believe is best for their survival. Sometimes, their survival is based upon some psychological or physiological needs that transpire to cause them to disregard other's needs, without intent to harm, or without awareness of harm, or even through emotional denial/oblivion of the obvious. How else could one hit their own child?

Since, I believe people mean well and are doing what they believe is best for their survival, when I observe another person suffering as a result of anyone's actions, I choose to help increase their awareness of the other *person's* suffering (their impact), not place any judgment on their actions. Also, I actively attempt to advocate for the person who is apparently voicing dissent at how they are being treated. (Not advocate for any "right" way.) I do these things not as judgment, but with full expectation that people do not mean to cause harm to others in the course of meeting their own needs. I try to inform without creating defensiveness, in order, to affect change for the benefit of the one suffering.

Attacking in the manner of judging, only leads to defensiveness, not openness to listen and consider another person as an adviser/advocate/partner. From my experience, judgment is counter productive to meeting the goal of changing a behavior (ie. helping someone who is suffering), unless there is a concurrent threat of forced compliance or punishment. One needs to _want_ to change.

Just as children are more receptive to a partnership of efforts to meet their underlying needs without judgment of the validity of their needs, adults (larger children; adulthood really is an arbitrary point in time) also need help to meet their underlying needs of survival. And sometimes adults need to be helped to see *the impact* of their actions on others (just like young children do). Any _presumption of malice_ is imbued by the external judgment (right/wrong matrix) applied upon the actions of an individual without regard to the underlying *purpose* or *reason* for their actions in the first place. Instead, by actively seeking to *understand* the underlying needs of the person impacting another, we can help them to meet their needs in a non-imposing manner to the best of their developmental ability/maturity/situational alternatives.

But, judging their actions as "right" or "wrong" is a destructive action which provides no benefit of altering their development, their maturity or their situation, in my experience. Judgment merely paralyzes one due to the threat on their ability to meet their survival needs in the manner to which they thought essential. Thus a fight or flight response results. And this is not an opportune situation in which to consider growth and change in the direction of he who is _threatening you with judgment_ and consequences, no matter how "logical".

Help doesn't judge. Judgment doesn't help.
Pat


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## MamaRabbit (May 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **LoveBugMama** 
I mean, these people all live in the western world, right? They have access to tv/other media, newspapers/other people. And I honestly feel that no person living in our diverse western world can use cluelessness as an excuse for beating their 6 month old with a stick. Sorry, I just don`t.

A college roommate of mine does Pearl with 7 of her biological kids but not her 4 adoptive ones. (that right there doesn't make sense, but anyway...). They have chosen to be completely isolated, or as she puts it, separated from the world. This means, they don't associate with others who discipline differently than they do. They have no TV, subscribe to magazines that support only their beliefs, use internet and then only very specific sites. It just screams "cult-following."


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## *LoveBugMama* (Aug 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaRabbit* 
A college roommate of mine does Pearl with 7 of her biological kids but not her 4 adoptive ones. (that right there doesn't make sense, but anyway...). They have chosen to be completely isolated, or as she puts it, separated from the world. This means, they don't associate with others who discipline differently than they do. They have no TV, subscribe to magazines that support only their beliefs, use internet and then only very specific sites. It just screams "cult-following."


Yeah, but then they are not clueless. They have CHOSEN to live like this. And they are wrong. Pearl is wrong. It will NEVER be ok to treat a child like that.


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## angelamariebee (Jun 20, 2008)

I cannot believe what I am reading in this thread! UGH!

Anyway OP-- I have similar minded friends, who use their religion as a basis for "training" and hitting their children. Well, one friend I can think of at the moment. I am still friendly with her. I've never seen her hit either of her children but I've heard comments like, "She got her butt whooped when Daddy got home," and things like that.

I'm not going to change her mind, so I just ignore it. We're not even that close and while I STRONGLY disagree with what she's doing (or what I can only imagine she is doing) I don't feel it necessary to call off the friendship.

Now, I have other friends who are not necessarily religious but they do spank. I've seen their children get "popped" with my own eyes. I've started to limit the amount of time we spend with them because of that. I don't want DD exposed to that ATM, it's not healthy.


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## godusjourney (Apr 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
This is an old post of mine discussing the obstacle that judgment places in the conflict resolution process.

Pat

This is beautiful, thank you. Absolutely how I feel about interacting with others. I do think people are generally inherently good and just trying to do their best in the way they understand based on their life experiences. It doesn't make their behaviors okay, but it does call for some empathy. And then hopefully a good, kind example to help them consider their choices in a different light. Just new knowledge in perspective.

Thanks everyone for your replies. I get the impression that most Pearlites are pretty harsh, but then, I only know two and most of my impressions come from the internet (which is renowned for being pretty inconsistent). My friend, however, is not cruel, but a loving kind person, who (from my perspective) hasn't been offered a different way of parenting. Luckily, my kids are quite well behaved, so I think my example could spark something. It's possible, and I'll hold onto the hope.

Thanks for the support.


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