# Picky Eaters : Born or Made?



## MamaPyratekk (Jun 22, 2008)

I was talking to a mommy friend about this recently, so I decided to pose the question here as well. I apologize if this isn't in the right forum, I wasn't sure which place I should stick it.

In your opinion, generally speaking, are picky eaters born or made? As in, do you think that the majority of children who are picky eaters are that way because they just _are_, or is it because of the way they are fed and that food is introduced to them?

The thing that originally sparked up this conversation with my friend is that we're on another mom-site together and people are constantly saying things like, "My picky eater won't eat anything but hot dogs, mac'n'cheese, and chicken nuggets!" and the mothers always say that they "can't" get their children to eat healthy. The general consensus of responses is, "Your child won't let themselves starve, just only serve healthy food from now on."

I know that this behavior isn't necessarily picking eating, since a child can also be a picky eater and eat very healthy, but was just wondering your opinions are on all of this







.

Thanks ladies


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## heatherdeg (Dec 30, 2003)

Wow... that's a good one. I'm one of those people that silently gets enraged (inside) when I hear that whole "my kid will only eat (nothing healthy--entire diet is crap)" nonsense. Not for nothing--we eat our share of crap even with a restricted diet. I'm not anti junk food by any stretch. But dude: everything in moderation... kwim? Temper it with some healthy choices!

As to whether they're born or made, I think to some extent, it's both. I have a kid in the spectrum and his foods must. be. this. way. Must be this brand. This thing must taste this way and feel this way. He loves tomatoes, but cannot stand tomato sauce and will scream if there's even a speck of it on his pasta (like when I forget to leave some aside for him and have to rinse off the sauce







). To me, that's a picky eater. But what he picks FROM is all healthy foods... kwim? So he only has healthy stuff to pick from. And in that respect, I think I feel like yeah--they are "made" to some extent because if you don't introduce mac-n-cheese (and/or don't offer it regularly) then there's no "habit" to form. The concept of a child whose never had mac-n-cheese suddenly refusing to eat nothing else is something I can't even imagine.

Granted, I don't think anyone enters into feeding their kid knowing that they will wind up with a 4yo (or older) that will ONLY eat the unhealthy stuff. Most people don't look at mac-n-cheese or chicken nuggets as something to be wary of. For me, if any one thing became too big a staple in my kid's diet--I'd start working on it, but I don't think I'm the norm (based on seeing other parents who are neighbors, relatives and at outings). People don't seem to give a lot of thought to what they feed their kid and just assume that it won't be a problem to adjust it if necessary. They see it as "feeding" vs. "habit-forming" or "lifestyle setting". IMO, that's a problem.


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## angie7 (Apr 23, 2007)

Personally, I think they are made. People think its normal for a kid to eat nuggets and french fries so that is what they offer them. My twins dont know what a nugget is and they arent crazy about french fries the few times we have offered it to them, but give them fruit and veggies and they are







:. When they were new eaters, all they were offered was healthy food so that is what they are use too. My friends are always wanting to go to McDonalds with the kids and we can't go. My kids wouldn't eat anything haha! They all think I am crazy anyways and ask "what do your kids eat then?" Their favorite food is rice and fruit....


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## heatherdeg (Dec 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *angie7* 
Personally, I think they are made. People think its normal for a kid to eat nuggets and french fries so that is what they offer them. My twins dont know what a nugget is and they arent crazy about french fries the few times we have offered it to them, but give them fruit and veggies and they are







:. When they were new eaters, all they were offered was healthy food so that is what they are use too. My friends are always wanting to go to McDonalds with the kids and we can't go. My kids wouldn't eat anything haha! They all think I am crazy anyways and ask "what do your kids eat then?" Their favorite food is rice and fruit....









: (much shorter than mine)

And I'm sick of the whole "what DO you eat?!?", too. Ummmm... BROCCOLI!!!


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## lunar forest (Feb 20, 2003)

Most are made, I'd say. How would your kid know they "only like" those junk foods if they'd never had them. However, but child will literally let himself starve (probably not for long, but I'm not willing to see how many days he could go) and turn into a monster in the process. But he has sensory issues so he just cannot bring him self to eat most of the food I enjoy. He prefers bland foods, and mostly grains (pastas, breads, rice or oatmeal sometimes,) and very few fruits. But that doesn't mean I feed him mac'n'cheese and hotdogs, either, yk? He's still going to get introduced to foods and encouraged to eat as healthy as he is able.

Poor nutrition is easier, and our society's lifestyle doesn't allow for the time and energy it takes, nor does it value it.


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## MamaPyratekk (Jun 22, 2008)

Quote:

They all think I am crazy anyways and ask "what do your kids eat then?
Oh man, doesn't that just get under your skin? I've gotten this comment a few times and it seems I can't get those particular mothers to grasp that my son *likes* healthy food. I also loved the reaction I got a couple of weeks ago when I gave my son a bag of chopped celery for a snack when we were out...
"I have some M&Ms if he'd rather have those instead."

I almost wanted to tell her to go ahead...because I know that my son doesn't really like chocolate that much and would actually be angry if I took the celery away to give him candy. For instance, the other day I gave him a chocolate chip cookie (we had a long day so I figured why not?) He started screaming and crying and holding it up going "Noooooo!" with tears running down his face and pointed at the bananas. He ended up eating two whole bananas instead lol.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I think it's both.

Kids are born liking certain foods, and hating others.

But, so many parents screw this up completely. Half say "He will only eat pop tarts". So, they buy him poptarts, and make sure to never run out of poptarts.

Then there are the others who say "He will sit here until he eats all of those peas".

_*I have a girlfriend who hated peas.. so on her fourth birthday, her psycho-mom bought her ONLY a case of peas, and made her sit there ON HER BIRTHDAY and eat a whole bowl of peas*_

I think it's fine to take into account your child's preferences, but to make a point of taking special food for your child everywhere you go is just going too far.

I personally believe that if you serve your child what you eat every day, he/she will learn to like those foods too. But, if you have one meal, and your child has chicken nuggets every day, they can't learn to try new foods.

I was a very picky eater. But, I didn't have a special meal at night. I was only allowed a PBJ when we were having fish, tuna casserole, or pea soup. The rest of the meals were a "use it or lose it" deal, and I could eat what I wanted, but, if I didn't that was fine too. I discovered foods I loved, but I was sure I wouldn't like them.

We didn't have snacks in the house. Back in the early 70s, snacks weren't that common. So, if I wanted something later, it had to be a sandwich that I made myself, or cereal, or yogurt.

I have a dyacare boy who litterally eats ONLY top Ramen noodles and crackers for every meal every day. Even at my house, he has a bowl of top ramen noodles for lunch every day, and that is all he eats. Because as his parents claim.. "it's all he will eat".


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## heatherdeg (Dec 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunar forest* 
Poor nutrition is easier, and our society's lifestyle doesn't allow for the time and energy it takes, nor does it value it.

Sad and true. And even if you had the time and energy, it also comes down to money--which is criminal. When I have foster kids that qualify for WIC I'm always LIVID that they will not allow organics. Not for milk, not for juice... not for anything. Period.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
I think it's fine to take into account your child's preferences, but to make a point of taking special food for your child everywhere you go is just going too far.

In case you see this somewhere, note that some of us do it because of food intolerances. I never leave the house without food. Often it just looks like a healthy variation of what's being served and so we'd look like the ridiculous healthy eaters. The reality is that often--those are the ones without corn/corn syrup and soy (two of our main avoidances). Like ketchup and hotdogs. Yeah--mine just look like a healthy version. Well, they ARE, but that's not why I bought them (although now I'm glad I was forced to do it).

I don't really tell anyone why and even though it's obvious that I'm using my own--they don't ask. I think they feel like it's rude. So they have no clue. The host/hostess does because I don't want them to feel that I'm insulting their choices, but I don't make an announcement every time I'm using my stuff. It gets old.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I think it's both.

My dd hasn't ever had mcdonalds, so she's not asking for that. And one of the (many) things she won't eat is hamburgers









But she was offered fruits and veggies (and only fruits and veggies for awhile) yet right now there are few fruits and veggies she'll eat









A lot of it is a stage.

-Angela


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## thefragile7393 (Jun 21, 2005)

I think it's partially both. For my son, he's definitely been made that way. He has a natural preference away from fruits and veggies and the cooking my husband does reinforces that. Ugh.


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## EVC (Jan 29, 2006)

My toddler is a picky eater and here is my two cents.

A lot of toddlers resist trying new foods. I read somewhere that it takes an average of 10 (?) tries before a toddler will begin to like something new.

So what happens. Parents get frustrated with their toddler resisting new (healthy) foods so they resort to taking the easy way out by giving foods (often less than healthy ones) that they know their children will eat. And bad habits are thus formed.

I know I have been guitly of this and I am really trying to get back on track, but it is hard. Dd never wants to try ANYTHING new and takes A LOT of patience to keep trying. It really is just easier to give her what I know she likes, but I also know if I keep doing that her diet will be so limited as to be unhealthy. And she will remain a picky eater.

So that's what I think


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

I have so many thoughts.

First, I think we need to define "picky."

I see a lot of people talking about picky being "eats only junk food" here. If that's the case then of course they're made because there was no junk food (as we know it) for thousands of years and yet humans survived without a lot of accounts of children starving themselves to death because the Big Mac did not yet exist, or whatever.

But if we're talking about just eating a small range of food, that's different.

If we mean do some people have a wider range of tolerance for variety than others, I think that's absolutely genetic. I have a completely unfounded theory that you need both in a tribe - the people who will go try the new foods, and the ones that won't in case the new foods turn out to be poisonous.

Although we talk a lot about healthy eating in a nostalgic way as if before flash freezing everything was healthy, the truth is that in many climates at certain times of the year your typical historic peasant family's food was likely fairly monotonous and wouldn't necessarily qualify as healthy to my mind, like being 80% potato or whatever. So the whole thing about picky eaters being a) morally outrageous/spoiled and b) unhealthy or c) unnaturally created by junk food just doesn't really make sense to me and it always seems to colour these discussions.

If we mean can a family's approach to food impact on the children - of course I think it can, within the range that genetics provides. I do think that by acclimating my son's tastes to a range of wholesome healthy food that I am laying the groundwork for his future choices, as he builds cultural associations with what is a 'treat' or what is a 'meal' or whatever.

But I am not certain it really governs final outcomes. Maybe at 18 he'll choose to eat tons of junk food. Maybe he won't. Control is overrated in the end.

Both my sister and I grew up on a typical 70s American diet - Hamburger Helper being haute cuisine. She does not experiment a lot with food although she eats much healthier than that was. I love variety and ethnic cuisines and try almost anything.

I concentrate on INTRODUCING my son to foods I love and that I think are healthy and in trying to ensure that my family eats in a way that respects our bodies, spirits, and the earth. But after that I truly believe it is under his control, his predispositions, and his personality.

I agree with EVC that what is hard is keeping the course on the respectful stuff.


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## 34me (Oct 2, 2006)

I have an older (12) picky eater whose older and younger siblings are not picky. When speaking with a nutritionist last week, having never really written down a list of likes/dislikes, for him it's not about likes/dislikes but sensory stuff. He does not like to chew an overly long time for whatever reason. I have a hard time getting him to eat any form of meat but he will eat many fruits and vegetables and he also won't eat anything on a consistant basis. If we find something he likes if we serve it too often, he will no longer eat it. So I can't play the Quinoa card very often.


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## miss_sonja (Jun 15, 2003)

It's both. Obviously, some kids are picky because of sensory issues or undiagnosed allergies. They're being "picky" to protect themselves.

But the kids who are described as only eating mac-n-cheese from a box or Top Ramen? That's a made situation. I'll bet there are times when it's tough, if money/time are tight or there's no real knowledge of cooking/nutrition in the house.

If I don't want my kids eating something, I don't stock it. We don't go to fast food (the occassional McDonald's trip to play in the play area), mostly because I find it disgusting--the smell lingers on your hands for hours, even after multiple hand-washings--ick.


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## ZanZansMommy (Nov 8, 2003)

Well my kids eat A LOT of chicken nuggets & french fries, but I make them myself, so they're not always considered crap. Neither of my kids have ever been to a fast food resturant & both hate burgers (homemade of course







)

I have to agree with Alegna & EVC, I think it's a bit of both. I personally get tired of seeing food wasted, especially with food prices the way they are, so I fix DS2 what he likes & try to slip in a few extras along the way. I've noticed that my DD4 now tries more things than she ever did, so I have hope that my DS2 will expand his palate in time.


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## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

Both. Some kids truly are sensory/allergic/just don't like the taste of X.

But a LOT of kids I see are "made" that way. I once nannied for a family where the kids didn't drink water (among the many, many things they "couldn't" eat). Because they didn't "like" it and it made them "sick". So, everything was juice or milk or Hi-C. No water.







Well, until the day I legitimately forgot their drinks, and they were forced to use the water fountain and *gasp* they "maybe didn't hate it so much".

Even adults - my husband was super-picky. Seriously. But, he'd never been exposed to a lot of stuff growing up...it was strictly meat and potatoes (swimming in butter, onion dip, and cheese - ew) and broccoli (with cheese)or corn. But, I sneak some new foods in every once in a while and he's learned that he actually LIKES some of them, even if he'd never heard of them (you know, exotics like baked ziti and hummus







)

Stages? Yes - my daughter used to love bananas, now won't touch them straight (she'll eat them in baked goods). But, if she doesn't want a banana, she gets an apple or strawberries or kiwi. Not candy or chips, kwim?

I do think part of the problem is most people/families get into a rut where they eat the same 30 foods or whatever over and over and over again, so, there just isn't exposure. I think if most people look at their menus, it's going to be the same 10-12 dinners, the same 3-4 fruits, the same 5-6 veggies, etc, rotated through. We have favorites, but I get bored eating the same things over and over.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

I'm in agreement with a lot of you here -- it's both.

Some kids have sensory issues or just a preference for a type of food. Me? I can't eat dry food, so everything needs a sauce, gravy, or condiment. I also think that people vary in their sensitivity to strong flavors. DH can't eat anything spicy or bitter or sour, and as a result won't eat anything that's mayo-based (can't stand vinegar). He likes bland (to me) food. For all I know, the bland food tastes just as strong to him as super-spicy or strong food does to me. DD hasn't yet shown a preference to any one type of food, though in typical toddler fashion, her interest in specific foods waxes and wanes.

All this aside, we all enjoy healthy food. We all have our preferences to how the food is prepared and seasoned, but overall it doesn't stop us from eating healthy. We don't eat fast food and I cook from scratch every night. I'm more than willing to accomodate preferences as long as the acceptable foods are healthy, too.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

I think these are two different questions really.

Some kids have sensitivities and there is nothing you can do about that. When my kid went through a picky stage he still ate healthy, just only liked certain fruits. His favorite go to supper was chicken and brown rice steamed with veggies. But he ate that for supper like 4 nights a week.







It was really annoying.

Sometimes people equate picky eating with junk food eating. Not the same thing. Picky eaters are "born" or rather I think it's normal for kids to go through a picky eating stage, be it 4 months or 4 years of picky eating. But I do think that the junk food thing is "made". I totally get how convenience food is a necessity for a lot of families though.


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## veganf (Dec 12, 2005)

BOTH.
Some people are naturally pickier, and need more exposure to foods before being willing to try them, and/or require them prepared in simpler ways or in a familiar manner.
Others are more adventurous by nature.
But I think any child can be encouraged to be picky via parental modeling, willingness to buy/prepare junk food or the same repetitious meal, or lack of exposure. And likewise naturally picky children can become far pickier, but they can also be encouraged to try many things if started young and with the right non-confrontational approach; maybe they'll never be outgoing food critics, but they'll at least enjoy a variety of healthy foods.

I've got 2 not picky eaters, and 1 picky eater.
But all bets are off if there is some physical or other diagnosed disorder that creates a barrier to good eating. That's where food therapists and tricky recipes can help.


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## notaperfectmom (Apr 25, 2008)

Well I think it must be both because I have a toddler who is driving me CRAZY right now with his food "choices".

We eat really pretty healthy in our house - almost everything with the exception of a few trader joe's frozen meals here and there for nights when I have class are made from scratch...real vegetables...not much in the way of snacks around etc.

So my kid isn't craving french fries and chicken nuggets BUT there are only about few things he will eat:

turkey meatballs
peas
bread (wholemeal)
mac and cheese
yoghurt
hummus
lox (go figure!)

oh yeah...and ANY fruit you put in front of him.

I'm dying because this is just not a balanced diet, but I have failed attempt after failed attempt of trying various vegetables and other meats. My guess is that it is a texture thing. He won't eat turkey but he will eat my turkey meatballs when the meat is all mushed up....the lox is super smooth etc.

I know this doesn't sound like the worst diet but it isn't great either. And I hope I haven't made it worse by letting him eat a good bit of fruit because I want the kid eating SOMETHING with some fiber/vitamins etc (prunes are a big favorite







)

But my 2c....I don't think I MADE him this way...and I hope this stage is over soon!


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Another vote for both. I have one of each, and I've raised them the same way. I buy the food, so I control what's in the house. It's mostly healthy with some fun stuff--good ice cream, newman's version of oreo's, and the ever present nutella! The number one snack for my kids right now is hummus with veggies, or frozen yougurt tubes for when it's hot. I fix one dinner with something for anyone who doesn't care forit, ie I almost always have some cut up veggies, sliced cheese, bread and butter on the table, and the kids drink raw whole milk, so no one goes hungry. But i wouldn't fix seperate dinners for a picky eater because too many times my picky guy will eat half a plate of what he says he hates while we're having a nice conversation and not focusing on trying to get him to eat!

My s-in-law feeds everyone whatever they want, whenever they want it. The kids (school aged) cry if their pizza is delivered too hot, so it gets whisked off to the fridge to cool down. At a recent catered family event m-i-law and s-i-law were inside making kraft mac and cheese for the kids. When invited for dinner usually the first question is "what are you having?", which I think is rude (no food allergy issues). But then again, maybe I am being rigid, and her kids feel supported and well cared for by getting their food wishes met? I guess there are two sides to the coin.


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## lunar forest (Feb 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I have so many thoughts.

First, I think we need to define "picky."

I see a lot of people talking about picky being "eats only junk food" here. If that's the case then of course they're made because there was no junk food (as we know it) for thousands of years and yet humans survived without a lot of accounts of children starving themselves to death because the Big Mac did not yet exist, or whatever.

But if we're talking about just eating a small range of food, that's different.

If we mean do some people have a wider range of tolerance for variety than others, I think that's absolutely genetic. I have a completely unfounded theory that you need both in a tribe - the people who will go try the new foods, and the ones that won't in case the new foods turn out to be poisonous.

ITA. There's a HUGE difference between people who truly have a smaller range of foods they enjoy and people who's palate's are conditioned to prefer artificial everything. I was talking about the later in my post, fwiw. I don't think you can deny that different people like different things.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
If we mean do some people have a wider range of tolerance for variety than others, I think that's absolutely genetic. I have a completely unfounded theory that you need both in a tribe - the people who will go try the new foods, and the ones that won't in case the new foods turn out to be poisonous.

This makes a lot of sense to me.

Now, when I hear people discussing this issue, I think it's cool to discuss it as a means of getting information about healthy approaches to food *for our own* *families*.

But, just as some folks may feel an inner rage at hearing some other parent say, "My child will only eat xyz" -- it gets my hackles up when people second-guess what other parents are saying about their own kids.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
the people who will go try the new foods, and the ones that won't in case the new foods turn out to be poisonous.

I'm sure you didn't mean that to be funny, but it cracked me up.

I'm easily amused though.

I still think kids need to be offered the food anyway. Even if you are positive they won't like it. Just a small amount on the plate isn't that wasteful.

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be something the child DOES like on her plate. But, I don't agree with parents who make a special meal of ONE thing for every single meal every day.

It's my job to provide the food, it's their job to eat it.


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## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

I think kids can be born picky eaters, but kids who will only eat junk are "made". The kids don't have the power to go to the grocery store and fill the cart with crap, so unless the parent has brought that stuff into the house and given it as a alternative to healthier food then it's not possible for kids to only eat it.

My ds wouldn't be considered picky by most people, but he will not touch meat. His father has given him a very small taste of some junky lunch meat once which he did like (gag). But I don't give that to him as an option, instead he gets beans and vegetarian sources of protein. I'm sure if I started handing out hotdogs and bologna he'd quickly become the kind of kid who would "only" eat those.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nextcommercial* 
I'm sure you didn't mean that to be funny, but it cracked me up.

I'm easily amused though.

I still think kids need to be offered the food anyway. Even if you are positive they won't like it. Just a small amount on the plate isn't that wasteful.

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be something the child DOES like on her plate. But, I don't agree with parents who make a special meal of ONE thing for every single meal every day.

It's my job to provide the food, it's their job to eat it.

That's pretty much my philosophy, but I have an almost-3-yr-old who will eat almost everything, but not on any given day. So it would be impossible to predict what he would eat anyway.









I do know kids who get genuinely distressed about new foods though and if I had one, I hope I would be respectful to the child first (as your approach is too) by providing at least one thing on the table on the 'short list' as it were.

I guess for me the main thing is that I personally find the moralistic stance AGAINST picky eating difficult.

I don't personally believe that not eating a large range of foods is a character flaw (as long as refusals are polite). It may make some things difficult, like being a guest, but it is not up there for me on the list of things I would want to get upset about.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I do know kids who get genuinely distressed about new foods though and if I had one, I hope I would be respectful to the child first (as your approach is too) by providing at least one thing on the table on the 'short list' as it were.

I also like the idea of providing the unfamiliar food _on the table_, and letting my children see me eating it, over putting it on my children's plates if they've said they don't want any. Some kids get really angry and grossed-out, when something's on their plate that they've said they don't want.

Conversely, they may very well be interested in trying a taste of whatever Mom and Dad are eating.

Quote:

I guess for me the main thing is that I personally find the moralistic stance AGAINST picky eating difficult.
I do, too.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Well, my picky eater was certainly born that way, not "made" that way.

And he won't eat hot dogs, chicken nuggets, fruit loops, or french fries, most fruits or most vegetables among a myriad of other things.

Nothing wrong with being picky. It isn't a character flaw although it is challenging to feed such a person.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

I don't buy food that I wouldn't be happy for my kids to eat. They are past the picky age now, but then and now they are welcome to be as picky as they choose among the food that is available. However, I am not going to cook seperate meals.


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## hempmama (Dec 16, 2004)

There was a NYtimes article a few months ago about pickiness- there have recently been some compelling studies that at least some degree of pickiness, typically beginning around 2.5 years of age, is genetic. So some of them are born.

I think if your kid only eats McDonalds, you made that. No kid is born only eating McDonalds. But they might not want fruits or veggies for a long time no matter what you do- it's specifically plants that kids can be genetically pickier about, tasting the bitter/fibrous/whatever more than adults can, and some kids don't mind it while other kids will for a while.

That said, I can't tell you how many parents I know who say their kid categorically dislikes X food or would never try Y food, despite only offering it or something like it once! Kids have to try a new food 10 times before you can develop an actual preference or dislike for it. Before that it's not preference or dislike, it's general kid's distaste for novelty.


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## FondestBianca (May 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heatherdeg* 
Wow... that's a good one. I'm one of those people that silently gets enraged (inside) when I hear that whole "my kid will only eat (nothing healthy--entire diet is crap)" nonsense. Not for nothing--we eat our share of crap even with a restricted diet. I'm not anti junk food by any stretch. But dude: everything in moderation... kwim? Temper it with some healthy choices!

yup!


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

To me, it's pretty obvious that it cannot be both. Chinese children, Indian children, Mongolian, Russian, Turkish, and Bolivian children do not eat what American children eat, as a rule. It's the culture you are exposed to. Children eat what they are raised to eat. Likewise, if they have parents who are picky eaters, they will become one themselves.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
To me, it's pretty obvious that it cannot be both. Chinese children, Indian children, Mongolian, Russian, Turkish, and Bolivian children do not eat what American children eat, as a rule. It's the culture you are exposed to. Children eat what they are raised to eat.

I like what GuildJenn's had to say about it: Within every culture, I think there are individual differences in how wide a range of food each person likes. I haven't traveled as widely as some, but I'm guessing that we may see more differences in America (i.e. picky eaters contrasted with more adventurous eaters), because we have such a wide variety of foods available.

The picky eaters probably don't stand out as much in areas where the selection of available foods is very narrow, such that everyone is pretty much eating the same stuff for meal after meal after meal. In cultures where you just have a few foods to choose from, everything at your table is likely to be familiar. All the time. So, how are you going to tell the picky eaters from the more adventurous folks?

Plus, in places where people put a tremendous amount of energy into acquiring and preparing their own foods, I'm sure those children are going to look at it waaay differently than children walking through the grocery store with their parents, or selecting their meal in a restaurant off an illustrated menu.


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## angelpie545 (Feb 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I like what GuildJenn's had to say about it: Within every culture, I think there are individual differences in how wide a range of food each person likes. I haven't traveled as widely as some, but I'm guessing that we may see more differences in America (i.e. picky eaters contrasted with more adventurous eaters), because we have such a wide variety of foods available.

The picky eaters probably don't stand out as much in areas where the selection of available foods is very narrow, such that everyone is pretty much eating the same stuff for meal after meal after meal. In cultures where you just have a few foods to choose from, everything at your table is likely to be familiar. All the time. So, how are you going to tell the picky eaters from the more adventurous folks?

Plus, in places where people put a tremendous amount of energy into acquiring and preparing their own foods, I'm sure those children are going to look at it waaay differently than children walking through the grocery store with their parents, or selecting their meal in a restaurant off an illustrated menu.

Good point, and probably very true. I think that here in America the picky eaters tend stand out more because we so much of a variety of foods to choose from. As far as what creates a picky eater, I think that obviously it can go either way. As for my kids: Both were very different from the start. Destiny has always eaten like a bird, even as a newborn, and Deanna was hungry from the beginning and still eats a lot. Destiny was fed pears as a first food, and still prefers sweets to this day. Deanna was fed rice cereal and veggies first, and I have seen her turn down a piece of pizza for a head of broccoli. The child *loves* veggies and eats pretty wide variety of foods, whereas Destiny still sticks to her favorite few foods.


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## hempmama (Dec 16, 2004)

It's true that children grow up in all kinds of cultures, but also in all those cultures listed above there are traditional "children's" foods- blander versions of everyday food. There's also a term for "picky eaters" as children in all of those cultures I'm familiar with enough to know.

Here's the article I mentioned:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...+eaters&st=nyt

FWIW, my children are incredibly adventurous eaters- requesting everything from Roquefort cheese to sauteed kale to spicy dahl. I credit this to 1) lucky genes and 2) my not screwing it up by making sure to offer things lots of times before declaring an actual "preference" on their part.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

From personal experience - born.

My mom did all of the current "right" things with regard to food - never made us clean our plates, only cooked one meal, made no issues of food, it was put in front of us and it was our job to eat it.

I was really, really picky. I peeled the skin off grapes and hotdogs and wouldn't eat spaghetti sauce for years. I'm only discovering vegetables in my 30s thanks to the CSA.

I'm the same way with DD as mom was with me and she is a much more adventurous eater. She takes after DH that way.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I think they're sometimes born, sometimes made, and sometimes part each.

I know kids who won't eat anything but chicken mcnuggets and french fries who I don't think have been given much else to try. I'm thinking they are made.

I know kids who are simply very sensitive in a number of ways and food is just one of those. They seem to be born that way.

And then there are some who are naturally a bit picky and who also don't have a whole lot of variety throw their way. I was picky and it was partially because I had sensory issues, but it was honestly partially also because my mom was a really bad cook. When I learned vegetables weren't always slimy overcooked mush, I liked at least some vegetables, but I didn't learn that till I was in my 20s. It was also partially stubbornness. Like my parents would push me to try something and I wouldn't try it simply because it had turned into a power struggle and I wanted to win. I was very stubborn. So I was partially both.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
To me, it's pretty obvious that it cannot be both. Chinese children, Indian children, Mongolian, Russian, Turkish, and Bolivian children do not eat what American children eat, as a rule. It's the culture you are exposed to. Children eat what they are raised to eat. Likewise, if they have parents who are picky eaters, they will become one themselves.

As I said I think it depends on the pickiness. But I wonder if you have eaten with a lot of people from different cultures? Because there are definitely "picky eaters" in other cultures. I think observing them from the outside we might think they're adventurous simply because all their food is exotic to us. But from the inside I don't agree.

I know plenty of Indian, Chinese, and Jamaican mums who will say their children are only eating rice this week, or will only eat white bread or whatever. A quick search suggests it's not just North American mothers:

http://www.fhs.gov.hk/textonly/engli...ng_faq_fp.html
http://www.nurturee.com/grows/food/online.asp?story=15
http://www.nurturee.com/grows/mother...e.asp?story=21
This link talks about a picky eater grandmother in Jamaica:
http://www.jamaicans.com/culture/myg...boutfood.shtml


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

I think they are born, maybe it's the taste buds? I grew up with a variety of food, frosh veggies from the garden and I hated a huge list of food. Even the taste of rice would make me gag and puke.

My kids will eat just about anything no problems.


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## cutekid (Aug 5, 2004)

I haven't read all of the thread but I think they are made by accident. LOL. My DS isn't a picky eater and is eager to try anything. I have a friend who has a DS that is very picky a cautious about everything he does..including eating. I think when you have a child that is picky all around its easy to get caught up in the "what if he starves" routine. Some parents as a result introduce things that may not be all that healthy and the kids get hooked on it. In my friends case she didn't do that, but her son was hooked on carrots and apples for a while LOL.

The other side of that is what to do when what you are offering is junk. My step son is "picky". Or at least that's what he tries to tell me, yet I have seen the kid mow down tons of salads and other veggies that he want even touch at his mother's house. Why? Because if he says he wants pizza she'll buy it and skip the healthy stuff.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

This thread is timely, because we're struggling a little with it right now. Until she hit age 2, dd ate everything we put in front of her (which was itself limited--she has about a dozen serious food allergies). Loved broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, any whole grain she could eat (millet, brown rice, etc.). When she hit 2, she got MUCH pickier, for no apparent reason. We can always count on her eating fruit (all kinds), and she'll eat as much avocado as you give her, but other stuff is touch and go. She's very uninterested in veggies these days.

So I think her diet is much more limited than it was...but that we still offer healthy choices. We give her organic meats, cheese, and yogurt; tons of fresh fruit (as well as Just Tomatoes dehydrated fruit); we still offer veggies with lunch and dinner, although she only picks at them. She gets brown rice bread and pasta, brown rice cakes and CerOs (an allergen-free Cheerio-type cereal made from Pinto bean flour); oatmeal or brown rice flour waffles for breakfast; baked sweet potatoes; air-popped popcorn; roast chickpeas; stuff like that. We do treats, as well, but in moderation. We make allergen-free cookies or rice krispy treats a few times a month. I'll also make stuff like frozen yogurt pops (plain yogurt blended with whole fruit and a little honey). She's never had a french fry (although I think she once had a tater tot), and fast food is out of the question with her allergies, although I wouldn't offer it anyway.

On the one hand...I'm not sure a kid should be living on watermelon, brown rice bread, and organic turkey (as she does some days). But on the other...at least it's not boxed mac and cheese and french fries.

Every single parent I know who says their child "only" eats X unhealthy food (chicken nuggets, fries) rarely offers fresh vegetables or unprocessed meats. Typically (and mind-bogglingly), they make an "adult" meal for themselves (e.g., roasted chicken, veggies, rice pilaf) and a separate "kiddie" meal for the child. Well, duh...of course that's all your child eats!

So I'm in the camp that says: in some sense, pickiness is born, not made; but how we choose to deal with that pickiness is something we have control over. I have a semi-picky kid, so I just let her "pick" from 95% healthy choices.


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## onlyzombiecat (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaPyratekk* 
I was talking to a mommy friend about this recently, so I decided to pose the question here as well. I apologize if this isn't in the right forum, I wasn't sure which place I should stick it.

In your opinion, generally speaking, are picky eaters born or made? As in, do you think that the majority of children who are picky eaters are that way because they just _are_, or is it because of the way they are fed and that food is introduced to them?

I think both are possible and it is hard to say without knowing the individual situation.

For my picky eater I think it is more that she has sensitivities that lead her to eat or avoid certain foods.
It can be extremely frustrating to try to feed her since she has a limited selection of things she will eat. I do keep offering different healthy foods.
The suggestion that she will eat xyz if she is just hungry enough is false though. For some kids it is true but not for all picky eaters.
I don't want food to be that much of a battleground. If dd says she hates peas I'm not going to keep offering them until she caves because she is starving. That won't make her enjoy healthy foods. I feel it is better to find the healthiest foods she does like- even if the selection is limited- and try to gradually expand her horizons by example and opportunity.

Some parents are certainly guilty of only offering certain foods and then assuming their child is picky when they are unwilling to try something else once.


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I think it's both.

My dd hasn't ever had mcdonalds, so she's not asking for that. And one of the (many) things she won't eat is hamburgers









But she was offered fruits and veggies (and only fruits and veggies for awhile) yet right now there are few fruits and veggies she'll eat









A lot of it is a stage.

-Angela

I agree. In fact, I would say that picky eaters are BORN but we can have some effect on WHAT they are picky about. My DD doesn't even know what McDonalds is. She has never heard of it. She has never eaten a chicken nugget. On the other hand, while we offer her fruit and veggies as often as possible, her repertoire of fruit and veggies that she is willing to eat is still pretty limited.


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## crwilson (Mar 13, 2007)

I guess I wonder this - what's so bad about being a picky eater? I was a picky eater as a child, and now I try new things and love food. DP was a picky eater and still is. He doesn't try new foods, doesn't like spicy foods, doesn't like cooked vegetables, and eats the same healthy foods nearly every day. He leads a happy and fulfilled life, at least food-wise. I think that trying to prevent the "picky eater" title puts a lot of pressure on moms, children, and food in general.

Admittedly, I'm overly sensitive about this right now. My toddler does not eat - I prepare healthy meals at least three times a day, put them in front of her, and she doesn't eat more than a few bites, if even that. Then, yesterday, we were traveling and stopped at Wendy's. I got chicken nuggets (not my normal choice but whatever), and you know what - she LOVED them. Gobbled them - while she's rejected my steamed chicken, brown rice, veggies and fruits of all varieties, homemade smoothies, etc. etc.







She's never had chicken nuggets before, she probably won't have them again anytime soon. But GRRR!


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## Individuation (Jul 24, 2006)

Well, didn't even read the thread, but I'm ready to be blunt and judgmental.

Certain food/sensory sensitivities are born. They can be worked around, to a point, but it takes a lot of work.

Many/most picky eaters are made. Our entire way of feeding babies and toddlers (even the "AP" ways; I am not just talking mainstream here) is designed to dumb-down the palate and make a picky eater where there dod not need to be one.

This is a pet issue of mine.


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## lunar forest (Feb 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Individuation* 
Well, didn't even read the thread, but I'm ready to be blunt and judgmental.

Certain food/sensory sensitivities are born. They can be worked around, to a point, but it takes a lot of work.

Many/most picky eaters are made. Our entire way of feeding babies and toddlers (even the "AP" ways; I am not just talking mainstream here) is designed to dumb-down the palate and make a picky eater where there dod not need to be one.

This is a pet issue of mine.









:


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## EVC (Jan 29, 2006)

Quote:

To me, it's pretty obvious that it cannot be both. Chinese children, Indian children, Mongolian, Russian, Turkish, and Bolivian children do not eat what American children eat, as a rule.
My Russian niece is one of the pickiest eaters I've ever met! I don't think pickiness necessarily means "eating what American children eat"--it just means only liking certain foods and resisting others. It doesn't necessarily have to be "bad food" either. It is just self-limitation, whether caused by food alergies/sensitivities, or by personality (which of course can be re-infornced by parents who "give in" too quickly to the pickiness).

Like I said, my dd is pretty picky, but I don't see anything particularly "American" in the way she eats--she has never had fast food, chips, candy, etc. She is generally fed healthy, freshly prepared food. Some she will gobble right up, some she won't even try (emphasizing her disapproval with a loud whiny "noooooooooooo"). I try to encourage her to at least taste it (and have read "Green Eggs and Ham" to her about 1,000 times showing her that it is good to at least TRY new foods), but I personally don't care for a battle of wills at the dinner table. So I do give in to her and her pickiness. And I realize that in doing so, I am probably contributing to her pickiness. So I am trying to find solutions....But ultimately it is a negotiation with her personality--it's not just food, she is generally resistant to change and extremely STUBBORN.

But again, I don't think it's fair to say that only American children can be picky eaters and that it something totally created by our culture. As I said, her Russian cousin is the exact same way and probably even pickier







:


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

I think both, but I think more of them are made. We have someone in our playgroup who will takes her 4 year old to McDonald's and Starbucks several times a week and pretty much lives off of processed food. Whenever there is something healthy (fruit, smoothies, pretzels), she will tell her DD "You won't like that, it's health food" and then she will hand her a cookie instead. I know that's an extreme example, but I think that a lot of people have the attitude that if it's healthy, kids won't like it, so why bother?


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

both.


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## artgirl (May 17, 2002)

Boy, I'm sensitive to this because my 2nd child is a picky eater in my opinion. His thing is yogurt. Good enough for you in moderation but NOTHING is good for you when it's all you'll eat.
He won't even TRY to put things in his mouth. He looks at them or touches them to his tongue and they are rejected. Or by smell.
As a baby he did better. I'm hoping he'll grow out of it.
I'm annoyed at the judgmental moms here who are saying that picky eaters are created. Or that if they're picky they are only eating unhealthy things. He'll also eat muffins so you wouldn't believe the things that I've hidden in muffins just to be sure he has something green once in awhile. It's hard. It's tiring and you WORRY all the time. Eating becomes something that isn't enjoyable.
Yes, I do give him mac n' cheese. He'll eat it sometimes. I give him Amy's organic. It's some protein and some freaking calories!
Many, many nights he'll go to bed without eating anything. I make dinner the no-negotiation meal. He either eats what we're having or eats nothing. He will 9.5 times out of 10 choose to eat nothing without even having TRIED what is offered.
Anyway...mothers with picky eater children are not necessarily lazy, or crappy eaters themselves. It's truly a struggle. Have you ever seen or lived with a child who hasn't eaten enough in the last 24 hours? Tantrums, tears, low tolerance for EVERYTHING. It's hell. At that point... I'll give him a yogurt because everyone is miserable and it's not worth it. I have THREE kids to take care of.
I may be wrong but I think he'll grow out of it if I can avoid making it into a HUGE issue (probably too late now).

Another point would be that I know moms who kids eat as pure as the new fallen snow... but they eat to excess. Fat kids. They eat everything alright but they are overweight. What's better? Fat kids eating all kinds of really healthy foods or normal weight kids who will only eat a handful of items?


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## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

I just don't know anymore. My DS doesn't seem to like anything that my DD did at almost 2. So maybe he's born that way.

In DD's case, I think she was turned into a picky eater. DD ate all kinds of healthy things for the first 3 years - her staples were tofu, avocado, broccoli and yogurt. She would try pretty much anything. But she was having developmental delays and having these disgusting poops so I did an elimination diet with her and everything went to heck. On the upside, we discovered she had a pretty bad soy sensitivity. And she is a little sensitive to dairy (straight milk). So she started gaining weight after those were gone.

OTOH, now she has some serious sensitivites (everything has to be crunchy or chewy) and she is on the "white" diet! White rice (I sneak in as much brown rice as I can without her noticing - usually 1/3), white chicken, white cheese, turkey, etc. She won't eat anything green unless she picked it from the garden or produce shelf herself. She will eat chicken nuggets (although I try to buy the organic kind or make them myself), homemade mac and cheese with a few veggies hidden in it. For us, it's all about hiding foods (love the Sneaky Chef) because if it LOOKS a certain way she won't eat it.

The only foods she shows real enthusiasm for are disgusting sugar bombs or processed foods (her newest kick is the boxed turkey, cheese and cracker stuff - I can't even imitate it with organic stuff that is cut the same way - it has to be IN THE PACKAGE - I might just have to doctor one of the empty packages!). I sometimes give in because I want to see her eat something with gusto, especially if she hasn't had protein in a week - or I use it as a bribe to eat other healthy food.

We keep a shelf of healthy snacks at their level and they are pretty much allowed to snack on anything healthy they want....but it is a constant struggle, especially if you have a child that can hold out for a LONG time for something more "palatable".

I can't tell you how many times I've tried to make cute, kid friendly food (wraps, or sandwiches or whatever) only to have to throw it in the trash or make DH eat it....

sigh.

My only consolation is that as a child I survived on hot dogs and bologna - and now I barely touch that stuff and I eat all kinds of adventurous stuff....so hopefully this is a phase....

I just think it's silly to judge parents harshly whose kids eat chicken nuggets. They are probably exaggerating or if they aren't then maybe you can just be the friend that eats those "weird foods" and gets their kid interested in other foods (my brother became a vegetarian for life after eating at a friend's house who was vegetarian). For me there are just way other bigger issues to worry about than what someone else's kid is eating.

peace,
robyn


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## lunar forest (Feb 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littleaugustbaby* 
I think both, but I think more of them are made. We have someone in our playgroup who will takes her 4 year old to McDonald's and Starbucks several times a week and pretty much lives off of processed food. Whenever there is something healthy (fruit, smoothies, pretzels), she will tell her DD "You won't like that, it's health food" and then she will hand her a cookie instead. I know that's an extreme example, but I think that a lot of people have the attitude that if it's healthy, kids won't like it, so why bother?

I don't think that's an extreme example, honestly, I know a lot of mainstream moms like that. I see it less in ap or crunchy circles, but it's still there to an extent.


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## cutekid (Aug 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunar forest* 
I don't think that's an extreme example, honestly, I know a lot of mainstream moms like that. I see it less in ap or crunchy circles, but it's still there to an extent.


I agree. I do see it a lot with main stream moms. I never tell my DS he want like something. One night I was chopping onions and he asked to try it. I let him try it raw. I didn't give an opinion ect, just let him try it. I do that with everything.


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## crwilson (Mar 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgirl* 
Boy, I'm sensitive to this because my 2nd child is a picky eater in my opinion. His thing is yogurt. Good enough for you in moderation but NOTHING is good for you when it's all you'll eat.
He won't even TRY to put things in his mouth. He looks at them or touches them to his tongue and they are rejected. Or by smell.
As a baby he did better. I'm hoping he'll grow out of it.
I'm annoyed at the judgmental moms here who are saying that picky eaters are created. Or that if they're picky they are only eating unhealthy things. He'll also eat muffins so you wouldn't believe the things that I've hidden in muffins just to be sure he has something green once in awhile. It's hard. It's tiring and you WORRY all the time. Eating becomes something that isn't enjoyable.
Yes, I do give him mac n' cheese. He'll eat it sometimes. I give him Amy's organic. It's some protein and some freaking calories!
Many, many nights he'll go to bed without eating anything. I make dinner the no-negotiation meal. He either eats what we're having or eats nothing. He will 9.5 times out of 10 choose to eat nothing without even having TRIED what is offered.
Anyway...mothers with picky eater children are not necessarily lazy, or crappy eaters themselves. It's truly a struggle. Have you ever seen or lived with a child who hasn't eaten enough in the last 24 hours? Tantrums, tears, low tolerance for EVERYTHING. It's hell. At that point... I'll give him a yogurt because everyone is miserable and it's not worth it. I have THREE kids to take care of.
I may be wrong but I think he'll grow out of it if I can avoid making it into a HUGE issue (probably too late now).

Another point would be that I know moms who kids eat as pure as the new fallen snow... but they eat to excess. Fat kids. They eat everything alright but they are overweight. What's better? Fat kids eating all kinds of really healthy foods or normal weight kids who will only eat a handful of items?

ITA - well said.


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## littleaugustbaby (Jun 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgirl* 
Another point would be that I know moms who kids eat as pure as the new fallen snow... but they eat to excess. Fat kids. They eat everything alright but they are overweight. What's better? Fat kids eating all kinds of really healthy foods or normal weight kids who will only eat a handful of items?

Fat does not necessarily equal unhealthy. IMO, a kid eating a healthy diet is much healthier than a kid eating junk, regardless of their size.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crwilson* 
I guess I wonder this - what's so bad about being a picky eater? I was a picky eater as a child, and now I try new things and love food. DP was a picky eater and still is. He doesn't try new foods, doesn't like spicy foods, doesn't like cooked vegetables, and eats the same healthy foods nearly every day. He leads a happy and fulfilled life, at least food-wise. I think that trying to prevent the "picky eater" title puts a lot of pressure on moms, children, and food in general.

Picky eating, in and of itself, is not bad. In some cases, like with my DH, it leads to a whole lot more.

My DH is picky for various reasons. A lot of it has to do with not liking strong foods, as I said in my previous post. But some of it has to do with other things. For instance, he "hates" strawberries because he sister (who is very close in age) loves them. He just decided as a kid he didn't want to be like his sister, so he said he didn't like them. He's never eaten a strawberry in his entire life. Absolutely insists he "hates" them when he has no idea. Repeat this line of thinking for hundreds of foods and you can see where I get frustrated.

We can only eat at certain restaurants. If they don't serve 1 of 3-4 different meals he won't eat there. I get frustrated that he refuses to try new foods (nothing exotic, but he has such a limited range of foods that there are tons of stuff he's never had), even if I prepare them myself. It really does cause a lot of conflict for us.

To be fair, many of these issues have more to do with stubbornness than pickiness. So for a picky eater who isn't stubborn, it's not likely to be much of a problem. But in my case, the stubbornness really exacerbates the pickiness and it's really frustrating.


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## sacredmama (Dec 27, 2007)

You just can't say this issue is black or white. People who assume that all picky eaters are made are just going from their own experiences, so it's understandable. But it's just not the truth. There are some picky eaters who were born that way and that's the truth.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EVC* 
It is just self-limitation, whether caused by food alergies/sensitivities, or by personality (which of course can be re-infornced by parents who "give in" too quickly to the pickiness).

Can you clarify this? It's not clear to me how having food allergies is the same as "self-limitation" or "pickiness." My dd doesn't eat wheat or peanuts or tree nuts or eggs because she'll get very ill--because she could die. It has nothing to do with being "picky"; she has no choice in the matter.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crwilson* 
I guess I wonder this - what's so bad about being a picky eater?

Absolutely nothing! One problem is the cultural attitude that says it's "rude" to refuse to eat whatever food is set in front of you. Another problem is the cultural attitude that says parents aren't supposed to "give in" to their kids.

A heavy dose of respect for kids can help transform this into a non-issue, or at least less of an issue.


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## macca (Jan 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Absolutely nothing! One problem is the cultural attitude that says it's "rude" to refuse to eat whatever food is set in front of you. Another problem is the cultural attitude that says parents aren't supposed to "give in" to their kids.

A heavy dose of respect for kids can help transform this into a non-issue, or at least less of an issue.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littleaugustbaby* 
Fat does not necessarily equal unhealthy. IMO, a kid eating a healthy diet is much healthier than a kid eating junk, regardless of their size.

The current medical belief is that a healthful diet is more important than exercise. Obviously both are ideal but if you had to pick one, pick diet. Blows away the mindset that you can eat a bunch of junk and make up for it with exercise.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Absolutely nothing! One problem is the cultural attitude that says it's "rude" to refuse to eat whatever food is set in front of you. Another problem is the cultural attitude that says parents aren't supposed to "give in" to their kids.

A heavy dose of respect for kids can help transform this into a non-issue, or at least less of an issue.


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## lunar forest (Feb 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Absolutely nothing! One problem is the cultural attitude that says it's "rude" to refuse to eat whatever food is set in front of you. Another problem is the cultural attitude that says parents aren't supposed to "give in" to their kids.

A heavy dose of respect for kids can help transform this into a non-issue, or at least less of an issue.

While I do agree with this, there is another problem you've overlooked here.

Ds is a "picky eater" due to sensory aversions and it can be very difficult to get proper nutrition in him. I mean he will sometimes just not eat any protein at all, for example. That is actually a problem, as opposed to an imagined one liked stated above. I see this in kids who are picky for other reasons, too. I mean, if a kid won't eat a single vegetable you've got a problem - no? But again, I think _that_'s more the "made" kind imo.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunar forest* 
While I do agree with this, there is another problem you've overlooked here.

Ds is a "picky eater" due to sensory aversions and it can be very difficult to get proper nutrition in him. I mean he will sometimes just not eat any protein at all, for example. That is actually a problem, as opposed to an imagined one liked stated above. I see this in kids who are picky for other reasons, too. I mean, if a kid won't eat a single vegetable you've got a problem - no? But again, I think _that_'s more the "made" kind imo.

Is a kid not eating any vegetables more "made" than yours not eating any protein? Just puzzled by that.


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## lunar forest (Feb 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom* 
Is a kid not eating any vegetables more "made" than yours not eating any protein? Just puzzled by that.









Oh my kid will only recently even entertain the thought of tasting a veggie. I guess that statement did come off and a sweeping judgment. I meant *most* kids (that I know, anyway) who think they don't like veggies are the ones living on mcdonald's, kraft, and Stouffer's. I know tons of kid picky eaters, but the ones who have always been offered healthy foods still like some veggies. There's a difference between kids who prefer certain foods and kids who prefer convenience foods.

I didn't mean to come off and superior at all. I struggle with this daily. But there's a line between excepting your child's tastes and and completely letting them choose.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

I'll say both as well. I was a VERY picky kid. But at least half of that was because a) we belonged to the "clean plate club". and I spent a lot of evenings sitting in front of cold broccoli. and b) because my mother would fight me on even healthy food choices.

For instance, I don't like toast. Can't see the point in burning perfectly good bread. My mother would not let me eat a sandwich for breakfast. Why? I don't know. Peanut butter sandwich is different from peanut butter toast how?

The sitting at the table thing was a huge backfire. I am very stubborn.

I eat a lot more now mostly thanks to a good friend and fellow MDC mama. Before we were mamas we shared an apartment. Her family is full of food allergies, so she's very laid back about trying things. She would order things I'd never had in a restaurant and let me try them, risk free. Or make them, and let me try them, and not say anything if I spit it back out. It was really nice. And now there are tons of things I'll eat that I would have said "I dont' like that" about before.

So yeah, a pressure free environment is often the way to go to encourage someone, but you can't move beyond their own tolerance for such things.


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## pumpkin (Apr 8, 2003)

To some extent, my DH was made into a picky eater.

But as frustrated as I get sometimes, I would have done exactly what his parents did.

He spent most of his early years in and out of the hospital, desperately ill, going through dozens of surgeries. Getting him to eat anything was a major triumph. So if he got lots of processed food because it was easier on his stomach, he got french fries because it was a way to get any food into his body. I would have done exactly what they did without a moments hesitation even knowing how hard it is to feed him as an adult.

Heck, when we were dating we were going to BIL's house and SIL actually called and told him to pick up McDonald's because he wouldn't like the dinner. I was mortified. but its just the way things are.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunar forest* 
Oh my kid will only recently even entertain the thought of tasting a veggie. I guess that statement did come off and a sweeping judgment. I meant *most* kids (that I know, anyway) who think they don't like veggies are the ones living on mcdonald's, kraft, and Stouffer's. I know tons of kid picky eaters, but the ones who have always been offered healthy foods still like some veggies. There's a difference between kids who prefer certain foods and kids who prefer convenience foods.

I didn't mean to come off and superior at all. I struggle with this daily. But there's a line between excepting your child's tastes and and completely letting them choose.









Gotcha.

Though, I think my ds prefers convenience foods _because_ they are so consistent in texture. He hates finding a "surprise" texture or flavor in his mouth and I think he has discovered things in boxes are safer, lol.

I'm just thrilled my ds has stared eating broccoli and will occasionally eat peanut butter (he's a vegetarian and can stand beans, doesn't care for dairy possibly due to allergies).


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## lunar forest (Feb 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom* 







Gotcha.

Though, I think my ds prefers convenience foods _because_ they are so consistent in texture. He hates finding a "surprise" texture or flavor in his mouth and I think he has discovered things in boxes are safer, lol.

I'm just thrilled my ds has stared eating broccoli and will occasionally eat peanut butter (he's a vegetarian and can stand beans, doesn't care for dairy possibly due to allergies).

Yeah, see, I could have written you post myself. Though, we're no longer veg because of the protein thing (I've been veg for nearly ten years, but ds just wasn't getting what he needed), oh yeah, and ds would never eat nutbetters.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunar forest* 
While I do agree with this, there is another problem you've overlooked here.

Ds is a "picky eater" due to sensory aversions and it can be very difficult to get proper nutrition in him. I mean he will sometimes just not eat any protein at all, for example. That is actually a problem, as opposed to an imagined one liked stated above. I see this in kids who are picky for other reasons, too. I mean, if a kid won't eat a single vegetable you've got a problem - no? But again, I think _that_'s more the "made" kind imo.









That's why I added "or at least less of an issue" onto "non-issue" -- because I realize that _of course_ it's issue if a child is no longer breastfeeding, and also isn't wanting to eat anything nutritious. For days and days on end.

But respect for the child turns it into less of an issue than it would be if parents were getting tripped-up by concerns about showing their child "who's boss," and not letting their child "manipulate" them.

As an example, a relative of mine was berated by other family members for feeding her 6yo grandson. He was staying with her during a difficult transition in his life, and was refusing to eat and sleeping *a lot*. But he liked being held and fed, so she saw it as a way to get some nourishment in him, and basically help him choose life over starving himself and sleeping all the time.

Then this grandma took her grandson to a family reunion, and was scolded by her siblings for feeding a 6yo.

So ... I'm not saying this child's depression, and his not eating, were non-issues: But it sure gets complicated when parents of special-needs children get bashed by judges who don't understand, and don't even try. And these judges are basically just exhorting parents to quit catering to their kids, and start catering to public opinion.

The parents who follow that advice are just hurting their kids, to gain the approval of people who often care nothing about their kids.


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## EVC (Jan 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NYCVeg* 
Can you clarify this? It's not clear to me how having food allergies is the same as "self-limitation" or "pickiness." My dd doesn't eat wheat or peanuts or tree nuts or eggs because she'll get very ill--because she could die. It has nothing to do with being "picky"; she has no choice in the matter.

I just meant 'self limitation' in the sense of limiting oneself to certain to foods or food groups. Sometimes one has no choice but to limit oneself (i.e. in the case of alergies and sensitivities) and sometimes one limits oneself by choice (i.e. because they don't like certain foods). If someone is allergic to eggs, for example, they usually limit themselves to food without eggs in order to avoid getting sick. It is still self limitation--even if it is wise self limitation done for a reason beyond the person's control. Does that make sense? No offense was meant, at any rate


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## Miss Information (May 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgirl* 
Boy, I'm sensitive to this because my 2nd child is a picky eater in my opinion. His thing is yogurt. Good enough for you in moderation but NOTHING is good for you when it's all you'll eat.
He won't even TRY to put things in his mouth. He looks at them or touches them to his tongue and they are rejected. Or by smell.
As a baby he did better. I'm hoping he'll grow out of it.
I'm annoyed at the judgmental moms here who are saying that picky eaters are created. Or that if they're picky they are only eating unhealthy things. He'll also eat muffins so you wouldn't believe the things that I've hidden in muffins just to be sure he has something green once in awhile. It's hard. It's tiring and you WORRY all the time. Eating becomes something that isn't enjoyable.
Yes, I do give him mac n' cheese. He'll eat it sometimes. I give him Amy's organic. It's some protein and some freaking calories!
Many, many nights he'll go to bed without eating anything. I make dinner the no-negotiation meal. He either eats what we're having or eats nothing. He will 9.5 times out of 10 choose to eat nothing without even having TRIED what is offered.
Anyway...mothers with picky eater children are not necessarily lazy, or crappy eaters themselves. It's truly a struggle. Have you ever seen or lived with a child who hasn't eaten enough in the last 24 hours? Tantrums, tears, low tolerance for EVERYTHING. It's hell. At that point... I'll give him a yogurt because everyone is miserable and it's not worth it. I have THREE kids to take care of.
I may be wrong but I think he'll grow out of it if I can avoid making it into a HUGE issue (probably too late now).

Another point would be that I know moms who kids eat as pure as the new fallen snow... but they eat to excess. Fat kids. They eat everything alright but they are overweight. What's better? Fat kids eating all kinds of really healthy foods or normal weight kids who will only eat a handful of items?


Big hugs mama, I've been there.

My oldest, compliant in every other way, had a real issue with food from the time she was about a year old to about 4.5 did she not tolerate the eating of meat of any kind other than nuggets (frozen nuggets, not McDs kind) or fish sticks, and never anything with sauce, or mixed together (like casseroles).

When I "forced" her to try to not only put food in her mouth, but swallow (not saying anyone does here or that's even a good idea to try) normal meat (of any kind). She would put it in her mouth, chew very reluctantly with tears streaming down her face, then start gagging. I never tried that tactic very long.

It took 3.5 years of gentle coaxing to get her to eat meat, making separate meals for her, always having a pb and j sandwich whenever we went out. But, during that time, I would gradually introduce meat (starting with plain chicken). It had to be so gradually - first I'd ask her to put the offensive food in her mouth, then allow her to spit it out. Then I would ask her to chew it, then spit it out, then eventually swallow one piece. When she mastered this, I added the number of bites, so that she has to eat one bite for each year (when she was 5, it was 5 bites, now that she's 6 it's six). (she would however, eat fruits and vegetables and still does).

There are children with very real oral aversions to texture, taste, even temperature of foods.

While we were working on this, I made smoothies a part of our diets with protein powder (and there are many options - egg, rice, soy, whey[which is milk protein]), wheat germ, flax oil and fruit and yogurt. I also added to pancakes protein powder, oats chopped fine, wheat germ, flax oil instead of regular oil. But, in addition to that, we also did the mac and cheese and nuggets (but only like 2x a week).

When she got comfortable eating chicken, I made my own chicken nuggets from chicken breast, then in the last year, she's actually begun to eat steak and hamburger meat.

But even without actual meat, trying to get them to eat beans and peas is a good way to get protein in them. Hard boiled egg is pretty good too. This one never minded hard boiled eggs.

It's harder though to have a picky eater and ALLERGIES, but fortunately my daughter never had food allergies. That would have made it a nightmare.

Oh...

and as a side note: I never let my children go to bed hungry. If they didn't eat a good dinner, I let them eat a bowl of oatmeal. But I didn't have to do that often. I always felt that making a child go without food is a punishment and I don't want to do that. I have had one child that had sensitivity to blood sugar (though not truly hypoglycemic), and would have worse meltdowns if she didn't eat enough good food (she's actually one of my better eaters fortunately).


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

This article appeared in the New York Times last year.

Excerpt from article:

Quote:

Researchers examined the eating habits of 5,390 pairs of twins between 8 and 11 years old and found children's aversions to trying new foods are mostly inherited.

The message to parents: It's not your cooking, it's your genes.

The study, led by Dr. Lucy Cooke of the department of epidemiology and public health at University College London, was published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition in August. Dr. Cooke and others in the field believe it is the first to use a standard scale to investigate the contribution of genetics and environment to childhood neophobia.

According to the report, 78 percent is genetic and the other 22 percent environmental.
Of course, an important point is that if you never make Cheese Whiz or Frozen Fries or Chicken nuggets or McDonalds available to your picky child (i.e, *just don't buy that stuff - ever*), then even the most extremely picky child _will never have the chance to prefer it_, only the chance to reject _your food_ and ask for something else in _your pantry_. (In our pantry, that would whole wheat bread, chick peas, cherry tomatoes, whole grain pasta - still not great as a diet unto itself, but better than getting processed chicken nuggets every day).


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RomanGoddess* 
Of course, an important point is that if you never make Cheese Whiz or Frozen Fries or Chicken nuggets or McDonalds available to your picky child (i.e, *just don't buy that stuff - ever*), then even the most extremely picky child _will never have the chance to prefer it_, only the chance to reject _your food_ and ask for something else in _your pantry_. (In our pantry, that would whole wheat bread, chick peas, cherry tomatoes, whole grain pasta - still not great as a diet unto itself, but better than getting processed chicken nuggets every day).

And _that_ is the heart of the matter. I agree 100%.


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## chaimom (Aug 22, 2007)

(Haven't read all the posts, so sorry if I'm redundant)

Interesting NYT article. I have fraternal twins, aged 6. One boy eats almost anything and will try everything. One twin has about 10 foods he'll eat. It's always been that way. So, I'd have to say picky eaters are BORN.

Like a pp, my son would starve rather than try something he doesn't want or is afraid he won't like. I hope he grows out of it, but he's doing OK on his diet. He has two vegetables he'll eat, two fruits, bread and a couple of meats. He knows he's missing out and he doesn't care.


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## NYCVeg (Jan 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RomanGoddess* 
Of course, an important point is that if you never make Cheese Whiz or Frozen Fries or Chicken nuggets or McDonalds available to your picky child (i.e, *just don't buy that stuff - ever*), then even the most extremely picky child _will never have the chance to prefer it_, only the chance to reject _your food_ and ask for something else in _your pantry_. (In our pantry, that would whole wheat bread, chick peas, cherry tomatoes, whole grain pasta - still not great as a diet unto itself, but better than getting processed chicken nuggets every day).

Yes--I agree with this. My picky and food-allergic child will always eat watermelon, blueberries, Just Tomatoes brand dehydrated fruit, brown rice bread with organic cream cheese, and organic turkey breast. So even on a very picky day, I can be sure she's getting some nutrition. I don't offer her things like French fries, tater tots, and chicken nuggets, because I think there is a real risk that she would give up her healthier choices.

But I also think, as in some of the examples above, that there are parents who facilitate picky eating--like a friend of mine, who regularly declares that "no toddler eats vegetables" and therefore NEVER offers them (even if we go out for Chinese food and she gets chicken with broccoli or something--she'll give her boys the chicken and some white rice, but she won't even put the veggies on their plates).

And the reason that picky eating is a problem, to go back to someone else's question, is that the human body requires a range of nutrients to thrive. When dd is in a picky phase, I worry not because I want to control her or because I don't want to "give in" to her, but because I want her to be healthy. Given that she has extensive food allergies and is already very limited in what she eats, I want to maximize her nutrition. That doesn't mean forcing her to eat, or scolding her when she doesn't--but I don't think it's "wrong" to be invested in providing your child with a healthy, well-balanced diet. I certainly wish my mom had done more to encourage me to try new foods, instead of allowing me a steady stream of Froot Loops, PopTarts, and frozen dinners--foods that were seriously detrimental not only to my health, but to my long-term eating habits.


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## ChetMC (Aug 27, 2005)

Interesting thread. I've always believed that picky eaters are born, and then either exacerbated or curbed by parents. Giving McDonald's to a toddler on a regular basis definitely qualifies as exacerbation.

We didn't give our kids chicken nuggets, hotdogs, mac-n-cheese or juice because I'd read too many posts from parents who said that was all their kids would consume and I didn't want to go down that road. They got tastes of it eventually, but it was typically in unusual circumstances... at grandma's or when we were travelling and options were limited (the beverage choices were coke or applie juice). It wasn't something they expected at home at normal meals so it was outside the sphere of what they'd even think of when they were being picky. I'd also sabotage trips to fast food restaurants. I'd give the kids a snack before we went, and try to go to one with a play structure so they'd ignore the food after eating six fries.

Even with healthy food our kids could still be picky though! Food had to be one colour... spice flecks were not acceptable. Crackers couldn't be broken. Sizes, shapes, textures were points of contention. A food they'd eaten for two years would suddenly get rejected because it was cut the wrong way.

Younger DD goes through phases of eating only four things... fortunately the list usually looks something like grapes, strawberries, peanut butter on whole wheat and red peppers... so we can live with it. Our older DD rejected meat as a baby, and goes through long stretches of not eating it now.


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## Miss Information (May 17, 2005)

I really wish the search function was working again. There was a post I think on MDC about feeding therapy. One of the mothers posted the detailed progression of steps to get their child to expand their food choices. I really wish I can find it again (I can't even find it on my computer because I'm pretty sure I cut and pasted it).


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## meganeilis (Mar 12, 2006)

We all have preferences, but IMO downright pickiness is something that parents contribute to and foster in their children. You don't have to force your kid to eat peas if the smell or texture literally makes them gag, but whining, complaining, only eating things that are white (bread, rice, plain pasta), nuh-uh. That is a decision you make as a parentto allow to continue. DH recently had a co-worker tell him that his 3 year old would only eat Eggo waffles. We both wondered, why keep buying waffles? Ditto my nieces refusing to eat ANYTHING but plain bread at a family party. They are 5 and 7. Take away the bread, and tell them they're out of luck unless they pick somethign that has a color.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
But I wonder if you have eaten with a lot of people from different cultures? Because there are definitely "picky eaters" in other cultures.

I've spent most of my adult life (20 + years) with non-Americans both in their culture and here. Yes, I eat with people from different cultures every single day. And, no, I have yet to find that they are as picky as American kids.


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## lunar forest (Feb 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
We all have preferences, but IMO downright pickiness is something that parents contribute to and foster in their children. You don't have to force your kid to eat peas if the smell or texture literally makes them gag, but whining, complaining, only eating things that are white (bread, rice, plain pasta), nuh-uh. That is a decision you make as a parentto allow to continue. DH recently had a co-worker tell him that his 3 year old would only eat Eggo waffles. We both wondered, why keep buying waffles? Ditto my nieces refusing to eat ANYTHING but plain bread at a family party. They are 5 and 7. Take away the bread, and tell them they're out of luck unless they pick somethign that has a color.

But it's just not that simple. Some kids would rather just not eat than eat something they don't like. My dd loves bread. We only buy whole wheat sprouted grain bread. We went to a family picnic this summer and dd would only eat hamburger buns. This was frustrating and I tried my darndest to get her to eat something good, but it was a no-go. In the end I was much happier with her eating anything (even though is was trash) than getting to that low blood sugar overwhelmed crazy place. And she's not the picky one.









My point is that it's really easy to say "just don't buy eggos" but it can be really stressful and scary when your child won't eat anything. I'd certainly try to find something similar that she did like.


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## Laggie (Nov 2, 2005)

I think that for a minority of kids picky eating is genetic but for the majority it's learned. It irks me when people reinforce the idea of disliking a certain food. DH tends to do this: "Oh, DD doesn't like ____." rather than offering it to her anyway.

I offered DD peanut butter and honey for years and she kept telling me that was disgusting (without ever tasting it). Yesterday she informed me, as if it was a new concept, that she tried it elsewhere and it was great.

I think that with most kids it's more of a control thing than an actual dislike of the foods. I would make exceptions for gagging... as a kid I gagged on brussels sprouts and I still hate them. I eat one when they are served though.

I'm going to be the voice of dissent here: I DO think that an unwillingness to try new things is a character flaw. I think that kind of thinking can really hinder a person in life - life is all about new experiences and learning new things. Maybe it's possible to be picky about food and adventurous in other areas, but I don't think that's the case for most people. Eating the same food every day, staying with the spouse you don't love, going to the job you hate because you're too scared to try something new... sounds dismal to me.


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## sacredmama (Dec 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Laggie* 
I'm going to be the voice of dissent here: I DO think that an unwillingness to try new things is a character flaw. I think that kind of thinking can really hinder a person in life - life is all about new experiences and learning new things. Maybe it's possible to be picky about food and adventurous in other areas, but I don't think that's the case for most people. Eating the same food every day, staying with the spouse you don't love, going to the job you hate because you're too scared to try something new... sounds dismal to me.


Some people are just simple. Just because it seems like it's dismal to you doesn't necessarily mean that it is to them. All that matters is that they are happy. I know people that have found their groove and are just as joyous in their routine as those who feel the need to be adventurous.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Laggie* 
I think that for a minority of kids picky eating is genetic but for the majority it's learned. It irks me when people reinforce the idea of disliking a certain food. DH tends to do this: "Oh, DD doesn't like ____." rather than offering it to her anyway.

I offered DD peanut butter and honey for years and she kept telling me that was disgusting (without ever tasting it). Yesterday she informed me, as if it was a new concept, that she tried it elsewhere and it was great.

I think that with most kids it's more of a control thing than an actual dislike of the foods. I would make exceptions for gagging... as a kid I gagged on brussels sprouts and I still hate them. I eat one when they are served though.

I'm going to be the voice of dissent here: I DO think that an unwillingness to try new things is a character flaw. I think that kind of thinking can really hinder a person in life - life is all about new experiences and learning new things. Maybe it's possible to be picky about food and adventurous in other areas, but I don't think that's the case for most people. Eating the same food every day, staying with the spouse you don't love, going to the job you hate because you're too scared to try something new... sounds dismal to me.

I'm a picky eater. And it has nothing to do with my parents catering to me because they were in the "eat what's served or go hungry" line of thinking. I went hungry a lot as a child. The smell of celery makes me gag. If anything has the slightest bit of celery I can't eat it. So yeah, I avoid foods that I know have celery in them. No matter how many times I've tried okra, I can't eat it. The slimy texture just turns my stomach. Same with quash. I can eat it cooked certian ways, but I'll never really like it. I hate, hate, hate tomatoes and most tomato products. So I avoid things that I know have lots of tomatoes in them. I hate almost all seafood and only eat my meat really, really well done. I would be quite happy eating chicken every single day. I hate milk and don't drink it. Watermelon and cantolope just don't appeal to me. And trust me my life is hardly dismal. I left all the jobs I hated and dumped all the men who were jerks. I ride scary rollercoasters and climb mountains. I love learning new things, I just avoid all the foods I've hated for almost 30 years. I want to enjoy my food and if I know I hate something I'm not going to force myself to eat it, not even one bite.


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## lindberg99 (Apr 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Now, when I hear people discussing this issue, I think it's cool to discuss it as a means of getting information about healthy approaches to food *for our own* *families*.

But, just as some folks may feel an inner rage at hearing some other parent say, "My child will only eat xyz" -- it gets my hackles up when people second-guess what other parents are saying about their own kids.

I agree. I've never understood why what *other people's* kids eat bothers people so much. Like if someone wants to bring along a PB&J for their kid to eat instead of pizza (or whatever), why is that such a big deal to anyone?

Every kid has certain things about them that are different from "the norm". I have one kid who is a picky eater...I believe she was made that way because she has been picky since she started solids. My other two kids eat whatever but have other strong likes and dislikes. Like my youngest always wants his hat and sunglasses on, sometimes even at night. My middle son doesn't like to wear shirts with collars or t-shirts with writing on them.

And while I'm not concerned about any of it, I can tell you that my daughter's picky eating bothers people a lot more than my sons wanting to wear a hat and sunglasses or wear a plain t-shirt.

I guess food is just a hot button issue for people.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Absolutely nothing! One problem is the cultural attitude that says it's "rude" to refuse to eat whatever food is set in front of you. Another problem is the cultural attitude that says parents aren't supposed to "give in" to their kids.

A heavy dose of respect for kids can help transform this into a non-issue, or at least less of an issue.

Thank you. I get so frustrated reading these threads because it seems like so many people answer with so much judgement, and many of them have never had a picky eater, which of course they attribute to their amazing parenting skills. I have three children, raised basically the same way with regard to food. My younger two will eat practically anything, or at least try it. My oldest will eat almost nothing - and it's not about junk food. Do you know how freaking happy I was when he was finally willing to eat a cheeseburger (plain, of course) from the evil McDonalds? How nice was it to have one more food in the arsenal, and one I could get while we were out! Or when he tried apple pie for the first time? Or last year when he would finally eat noodles with a little butter and parm or a teeny bit of marinara sauce, instead of plain? It's like heaven.


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Laggie* 

I think that with most kids it's more of a control thing than an actual dislike of the foods. I would make exceptions for gagging... as a kid I gagged on brussels sprouts and I still hate them. I eat one when they are served though.



Can you imagine what life would be like if almost everything available to you to eat tasted like brussels sprouts? Or made you feel the way brussels sprouts make you feel? Would you be able to get over your "character flaw" every single day and every single meal and eat things that made you feel that way?


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindberg99* 
I agree. I've never understood why what *other people's* kids eat bothers people so much. Like if someone wants to bring along a PB&J for their kid to eat instead of pizza (or whatever), why is that such a big deal to anyone?

Yes, I find that to be a real character flaw, getting upset at what people feed their kids or upset with other people's kids being picky eaters







.


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## lunar forest (Feb 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Can you imagine what life would be like if almost everything available to you to eat tasted like brussels sprouts? Or made you feel the way brussels sprouts make you feel? Would you be able to get over your "character flaw" every single day and every single meal and eat things that made you feel that way?

wow, good point. We don't all experience things the same way.


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## Miss Information (May 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eclipse* 
Thank you. I get so frustrated reading these threads because it seems like so many people answer with so much judgement, and many of them have never had a picky eater, which of course they attribute to their amazing parenting skills. I have three children, raised basically the same way with regard to food. My younger two will eat practically anything, or at least try it. My oldest will eat almost nothing - and it's not about junk food. Do you know how freaking happy I was when he was finally willing to eat a cheeseburger (plain, of course) from the evil McDonalds? How nice was it to have one more food in the arsenal, and one I could get while we were out! Or when he tried apple pie for the first time? Or last year when he would finally eat noodles with a little butter and parm or a teeny bit of marinara sauce, instead of plain? It's like heaven.

That's just like in our family too. My oldest of the three dds is just like your son. I was so so so grateful when I didn't have to pack a pb and j sandwich everywhere we went.

Unless you've been through one who has different food requirements (because gagging will ensue otherwise), no one really has any idea how hard it is to work through those eating issues.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
I've spent most of my adult life (20 + years) with non-Americans both in their culture and here. Yes, I eat with people from different cultures every single day. And, no, I have yet to find that they are as picky as American kids.

Well, I do too, and if we're going to throw stones I find that British kids are the most hooked on the "white diet" - but I assume this is at least partly sample bias.

I do agree that Americans (and Canadians, although both are a huge range - do we mean Southern Americans? Midwest? Quebecois?) are bombarded with processed foods. And those processed foods tend to taste the same, every time - like campbell's tomato soup. Whereas making my own tomato soup I can taste the changes as the season changes and with different varieties.

This may make a surface kind of habitual pickiness, and I think that part is probably made. But I don't think it's a case of Americans being "lazy" or "catering" or anything like that. I think it's a case of both what the cultural food is (and many people find it disgusting the way "picky" Americans find other things disgusting but when someone can't stand spam or cheeze whiz, we call that smart; when someone can't stand okra and tomatoes we call that picky) and marketing.

And we do resist them in our house. But, I don't give a flying fig what other parents do about that. Having been raised a lot on junk food, I know it's entirely possible to change one's entire diet as an adult. Of course despite the fact that we ate the same 7 meals... every week... for 10 years, I am not a picky eater.

I think picky eaters exist in many cultures (perhaps not where starving is the alternative). They certainly exist in literatures of various areas of the world. (Jack Spratt would eat no fat/his wife would eat no lean).

I think that the assumption that parents who are generally offering nutritious food in their home (if repetitive) are somehow creating risk-adverse sad little people is... not nice. I took that to an extreme, but that's the tone I get in this thread.

I find the judgment in this whole thread depressing and sad. If you all come to my house you're welcome to eat, or not, pick out the onions, or not. I like people, not eating habits.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Laggie* 
Eating the same food every day, staying with the spouse you don't love, going to the job you hate because you're too scared to try something new... sounds dismal to me.

Even more dismal would be someone eating something she didn't want to eat, or divorcing her spouse, or quitting her job where she felt secure, just because *you* think her sticking with these things is a character-flaw.

*I* see the inability to respect other's choices as a character-flaw.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom* 
Yes, I find that to be a real character flaw, getting upset at what people feed their kids or upset with other people's kids being picky eaters







.

Yeah, this too!


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I think that the assumption that parents who are generally offering nutritious food in their home (if repetitive) are somehow creating risk-adverse sad little people is... not nice.

I agree.

Quote:

I like people, not eating habits.








I love that!


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## Sage_SS (Jun 1, 2007)

both.


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## meganeilis (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lunar forest* 
But it's just not that simple. Some kids would rather just not eat than eat something they don't like. My dd loves bread. We only buy whole wheat sprouted grain bread. We went to a family picnic this summer and dd would only eat hamburger buns. This was frustrating and I tried my darndest to get her to eat something good, but it was a no-go. In the end I was much happier with her eating anything (even though is was trash) than getting to that low blood sugar overwhelmed crazy place. And she's not the picky one.









My point is that it's really easy to say "just don't buy eggos" but it can be really stressful and scary when your child won't eat anything. I'd certainly try to find something similar that she did like.

*shrug* The truth is that not every picky eater has sensory issues, and most kids faced with "starve or expand your horizons" will pick trying a new food. Even as adults we have to do things that are not always within our comfort zone (public speaking, being a group leader at work, getting to know the new neighbors, etc etc), in the long run it's better to face things head on, even when they are stressful and scary, then to live in a tiny tiny comfort zone that limits us in many situations.


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## Teensy (Feb 22, 2002)

After I had my first son, I would have happily agreed that picky eaters are made - after all, I had done the "right" thing and offered him lots of different foods many different times and there were fewer than five foods he didn't want to eat.

Then I had his brother. Raised him the same way. He has LOTS of foods he will not eat. I'm still serving them to his older brother. He's not eating them.

Of course, I should have know better. My parents and brother love seafood, squash, and lima beans and they were served often when I was growing up. For almost 40 years I've tasted seafood, squash and lima beans (on many, many occasions in my childhood in an effort to get desert) and I still find these items extremely bad tasting. I could choke them down if starving were my only other option, but since I have money and nearby grocery store, I will be eating other things.

My mother has always called me a picky eater, but my unwillingness to consume bad tasting foods doesn't mean I am unadventerous in other ares of life. I've been SCUBA diving, snow skiing, whitewater rafting, climbed Mayan pyramids in Guatemala, and hope to see the gorillias in Rawanda when I can afford to go.







I don't see the correlation between the two.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
*shrug* The truth is that not every picky eater has sensory issues, and most kids faced with "starve or expand your horizons" will pick trying a new food. Even as adults we have to do things that are not always within our comfort zone (public speaking, being a group leader at work, getting to know the new neighbors, etc etc), in the long run it's better to face things head on, even when they are stressful and scary, then to live in a tiny tiny comfort zone that limits us in many situations.

Thank you for posting this. I think I have figured out what makes me so fascinated by/uncomfortable with this thread.

For me AP is about accepting the child where the child is at. If a baby needs to nurse, nurse. If a baby needs to be held, hold him. That's sort of the simpler stuff. But then there's all the exponential questions that come with it... if we trust babies to feed on demand why do we jump hoops trying to expand our children's palates?

I have an easy kid so it is not worrying to me personally that I need to change his relationship to food. But reading this thread I guess I have clarified in my mind that for me it is kind of like baby proofing the house. I want to "junk proof" our home enough that it is 90% nutritious, wholesome, respectful food. But within those bounds, I want to trust my son to be who he is in relationship to food.

I guess I don't fundamentally believe that making kids "get over" aversions is really going to create risk takers in the future, just like I don't believe kids have to sleep alone so that they don't always have to have someone in their bed as adults.

Not saying I'm right, just what I think is right for me right now, which is a more fluid thing.


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## crwilson (Mar 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
*shrug* The truth is that not every picky eater has sensory issues, and most kids faced with "starve or expand your horizons" will pick trying a new food. Even as adults we have to do things that are not always within our comfort zone (public speaking, being a group leader at work, getting to know the new neighbors, etc etc), in the long run it's better to face things head on, even when they are stressful and scary, then to live in a tiny tiny comfort zone that limits us in many situations.

But this is correlating pickiness regarding food with pickiness regarding everything else in life. In fact, it goes beyond a correlation and suggests that allowing your child to be picky about food causes them to be risk averse. I don't buy the correlation, and I certainly don't buy the causation.

Aside from sensory integration issues, I've not seen any mention of the physiological characteristic of being a "super taster." (See I did learn something in chemistry class.) When you're a super taster, you're a lot more sensitive to flavors which means that something that doesn't taste bitter (like many green veggies) to other will probably taste really bitter to you. Super tasters, it is no surprise, don't like lots of food and have been labeled picky eaters.

I, too, am turned off by the desire to control not just what one's own children eat but what other people's children eat.


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## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

I've always thought that the pickiness stages (because I do think there are stages to this in typical child development; I have a sensory-issues kid and she has stages of more and less picky too) don't necessarily determine the items that the child will eat, but rather the fact that there will be fewer foods or more food restrictions on what the child will happily eat.

So, when DD went through her first picky stage, she'd never had mac and cheese or hotdogs. She would only eat plain chickpeas and beans, plain rice, fruit, that kind of thing. Sandwiches, leafy textures, anything that comes on a bun, anything with sauce she would not touch. People would comment because I'd take her to the salad bar at the museum cafe so she could get hardboiled egg (she would only eat the yolk), chickpeas, cheese cubes, etc. All nice and plain and pileable such that they don't any of them touch on the plate. And all a lovely shade of white/beige too!







People would comment on how she was such a good eater, not eating the kids meal burger and fries (well, first off, we don't eat beef, but secondly, she's just as picky as the kids who will only eat burgers and fries, her choices are just different.)

We have a 2 bite rule at home, but it applies to everyone in the family and only to new foods and things that you will clearly hate based on other dislikes are exempted (ie- DD did not need to try chickpea curry (tomatoes, spicy, sauce); she got plain chickpeas and quinoa though, an adapted version, not mac n cheese and hot dogs)


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## meganeilis (Mar 12, 2006)

So I'm not AP because I think that eating and meals are a social event that picky eaters will not be able to participate in fully, and that parents should attempt to get their school age children to work towards expanding their palate? That's a new one.

I have no desire to control what other children eat, I'm doing a bang up job with my own kid, I just have little to no sympathy for the "woe is me, my kid won't eat" spiel you hear so often when it's 25% child, and 75% parent participation. Would you be content carrying your child around and leaving them sitting on a blanket when you visited the seashore because they didn'tlike the sensation of sand the first time? Would you write your child a note for gym class because they didn't like volleyball the first time they played? When we accept that our child is limited in anyway and then foster and encourage them to accept only what is comfortable for them, it's on us as parents, and that is far more upsetting to me than appearing to have control issues.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crwilson* 
Aside from sensory integration issues, I've not seen any mention of the physiological characteristic of being a "super taster." (See I did learn something in chemistry class.) When you're a super taster, you're a lot more sensitive to flavors which means that something that doesn't taste bitter (like many green veggies) to other will probably taste really bitter to you. Super tasters, it is no surprise, don't like lots of food and have been labeled picky eaters.

That's totally my ds. And I can find the taste when I pay attention, but it jumps out at him. Many fruits have a woody bitter taste under the sweetness, except it is _over_ the sweetness to my ds. So maybe he will be a connoisseur of fine wine when he is older. Sensitive taste isn't going to hold him back from fully participating in social events. He may enjoy some things less but he will enjoy other things so much more.

I'm that way with colors. They can drive me crazy or give me great pleasure. I'm not loosing out because I don't care what colors are together in a room. My brother has an extremely sensitive nose. He could work in perfumes as a "nose". Yes, smells that don't bother other people bother him. But he gets completely delighted at other times by other smell combinations. It's all kinda like being slightly manic depressive, great highs and great lows.


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## crwilson (Mar 13, 2007)

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that parents of picky eaters only give their kids things that the child already likes and eats. I, for example, provide a lot of different food choices, but when dd doesn't eat the things I give her, I figure oh well. She'll probably eat them someday. Or maybe she won't. Either way, it will probably be okay.

Am I frustrated that she's picky? Yes. Do I despair somedays and think that she will never, ever eat? Yes. Do I think that it must somehow be my fault? Yes, sometimes. But, then, it might be my fault in a different way than I think. DP and I are both supertasters, thus we probably passed those genes on to dd. I imagine that she'll manage to survive in any case. Will I continue to give her a wide range of food choices in hopes of "expanding her palate"? Yes. Will I be forever disappointed if her palate doesn't expand enough to suit other people's preferences? No.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
So I'm not AP because I think that eating and meals are a social event that picky eaters will not be able to participate in fully, and that parents should attempt to get their school age children to work towards expanding their palate? That's a new one.

I have no desire to control what other children eat, I'm doing a bang up job with my own kid, I just have little to no sympathy for the "woe is me, my kid won't eat" spiel you hear so often when it's 25% child, and 75% parent participation. Would you be content carrying your child around and leaving them sitting on a blanket when you visited the seashore because they didn'tlike the sensation of sand the first time? Would you write your child a note for gym class because they didn't like volleyball the first time they played? When we accept that our child is limited in anyway and then foster and encourage them to accept only what is comfortable for them, it's on us as parents, and that is far more upsetting to me than appearing to have control issues.

Congrats, but I have NEVER required my son to eat anything he didn't like, nor have I withheld food from him when he was hungry to get him to eat something new to meet some goal, and he eats pretty much everything. I think that is genetic. I have the decency to assume that it's a range and other people's kids fall on different places in the range.

I think there are respectful ways - modelling, providing opportunity, making mealtimes and new meals fun - to encourage a child to develop his or her own taste, without having to get into this whole moralistic "picky eaters have sucky parents!" thing. Or even having to work at it.

ETA: I'm not trying to be more AP than thou. I'm just kind of amazed that people who accept that children develop discipline over time and with gentle guidance, or that we breastfeed on demand and trust the child, express that picky eating must be stamped out! Or else!


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## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
*shrug* The truth is that not every picky eater has sensory issues, and most kids faced with "starve or expand your horizons" will pick trying a new food.

I agree with you, although I do think that sometimes the problem is often that there is ALWAYS something (healthy) in the pantry that my DD would rather eat, and that makes it difficult.

Example, we buy whole wheat bread. We buy whole grain pasta. We also buy fruits and vegetables. We do not buy junk food. My DD loves bread and pasta but not fruit and vegetables. So when we eat our meal consisting of, say, meat, pasta, and vegetable, DD will eat the pasta only. And she will do this EVERY time unless WE apply some additional rules, such as no more pasta until you eat your carrots.

For us, the issue has never been that DD will _starve_. She will just eat one healthy food (usually a starch) and _nothing else_. And that's not healthy either.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

I think picky eaters are born, but parents can make it worse or better depending on how they handle it. I refuse to waste time trimming off bread crusts and making special orders. If my kids dont want peppers on their pizza they'll pick them off on their own. I've seen parents that pick apart their kids food for no reason, especially the bread crust thing. Its like they assume all kids hate crust. If my kids truly dislike dinner, I will happily give them something else, but I'm not wading through a bowl of pasta and weeding out all the tomato chunks just so they'll eat the pasta. and i think my approach has been good-my kids have learned to like new foods because I always gave them that opportunity. Henri recently started eating broccoli. I was surprised, but I never excluded it from his veggie pizza or chinese chicken and broccoli. He used to whine at it, but over time he got curious about it and now he eats it.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama Poot* 
I've seen parents that pick apart their kids food for no reason, especially the bread crust thing.

What makes you think they do it for no reason? I've yet to come across someone I assume does something for no reason. You may not think their reason is a good one but doubtlessly there is a reason.

You have a kid who will pick out food he doesn't like. That's great. It's hard for sensitive kids to even look at food they find repulsive, let alone touch it.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom* 
What makes you think they do it for no reason? I've yet to come across someone I assume does something for no reason. You may not think their reason is a good one but doubtlessly there is a reason.

You have a kid who will pick out food he doesn't like. That's great. It's hard for sensitive kids to even look at food they find repulsive, let alone touch it.

It was someone I knew personally and they did this frequently with their child's sandwiches. I asked if the child really didn't like the crust and the person admitted they didn't know, they just took them off "just because". I can also remember back to elementary school where MANY children at the lunch table had crustless bread for their sandwiches. Sorry but I HIGHLY doubt every kid at that lunch table had such extreme reactions to bread crust. Parents CAN perpetuate pickiness and I'm simply using this as an example....


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Oh, ok, you know one person who cuts off crusts for no reason. Got it. Though, maybe her unexamined reason is that she doesn't like them much.

ETA It's probably a good idea to cut off crusts, actually. It's the exterior, essentially slightly burned, part of the bread that is probably carcinogenic like charred grilled meat. It is, at least, likely devoid of nutritional value.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

WIthout delving into all the other arguments...
I think it's a little of both. I do understand that some people do have extra sensitivity to taste and texture, and might have trouble with certain foods because of that. My dh, having lived through famines as a child thinks it's totally "made", and that if people knew what hunger really is, they wouldn't be picky about the food in front of them.

However, I do think the "my kid will only eat [insert list of _junk_ foods]" is not something they're born with. It may just be the area we live in, but I have seen way too many parents essentially training their children's tastes to junk food from infancy on. The kids never have a chance to eat healthy food--it's just not available to them. And it's not just an economic thing. There are certainly folks who feel like they're too poor to buy organics, but there are also many well-off people who say they're too busy to cook from scratch or spend a lot of time getting their kids to eat well.
When you give a 6 month old a bottle full of sweetened strawberry milk, and feed his toddler brother chicken nuggets and fries every single night what are the chances they're going to be interested in plain old regular milk and green veggies when they're 5, kwim? I have seen this kind of stuff and it makes me nutty.







:


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

That's probably why ds doesn't drink good ol' regular milk! He drank sweet sweet breastmilk for so long....









Just kidding. Breastmilk is supposed to increase a child's acceptance of variety since it is not always the same but changes according to variations in the mother's diet. But, really, cow's milk just tastes nasty in comparison unless you sweeten it up or turn it into ice cream.


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## MelKnee (Dec 5, 2001)

I'd like to interject some genetics here. My family and I took a genetics class with our local homeschool group. The teacher gave us all small pieces of paper with a chemical on them. People with a particular gene taste the paper as bitter. People without the gene just taste paper. My dh and ds both tasted the bitter. My dd and I didn't. Guess who the picky eaters are in our family? I think some people just have more sensitive taste buds. However, I do think parents exacerbate the pickiness. So, I guess my answer is - both.


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## crwilson (Mar 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MelKnee* 
I'd like to interject some genetics here. My family and I took a genetics class with our local homeschool group. The teacher gave us all small pieces of paper with a chemical on them. People with a particular gene taste the paper as bitter. People without the gene just taste paper. My dh and ds both tasted the bitter. My dd and I didn't. Guess who the picky eaters are in our family? I think some people just have more sensitive taste buds. However, I do think parents exacerbate the pickiness. So, I guess my answer is - both.

Those are the people I was talking about earlier - super tasters. DP and I are both super tasters, and that "paper" was about the nastiest thing I've ever tasted.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
Would you be content carrying your child around and leaving them sitting on a blanket when you visited the seashore because they didn'tlike the sensation of sand the first time?

I wouldn't force my child to be in the sand if she didn't like it. Would you force yours?

I wouldn't "leave her sitting on a blanket," either: I'd hang out with her on the blanket, and help her explore the new beach-experience in her own way.

Quote:

Would you write your child a note for gym class because they didn't like volleyball the first time they played?
We don't do the school-thing because we don't want our kids to be made to do things they don't want to do. I certainly wouldn't make my child play volleyball, any more than I'd make her play in the mud if she didn't like the feel of it.

Quote:

When we accept that our child is limited in anyway and then foster and encourage them to accept only what is comfortable for them, it's on us as parents, and that is far more upsetting to me than appearing to have control issues.
I don't see someone as "limited" because she, for instance, has no desire to make mud-pies or play volleyball. If a child doesn't like one thing, I'm sure there's something else she does like, and I'm glad to help her do that. Someday she may very well want to try the other thing that she previously didn't like, in which case I'll support her and won't be saying, "You can't do that! You tried that before and you hated it!"

Allowing kids to set their own limits doesn't mean we're not allowing them to change their tastes and interests as they grow.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom* 
Oh, ok, you know one person who cuts off crusts for no reason. Got it. Though, maybe her unexamined reason is that she doesn't like them much.

ETA It's probably a good idea to cut off crusts, actually. It's the exterior, essentially slightly burned, part of the bread that is probably carcinogenic like charred grilled meat. It is, at least, likely devoid of nutritional value.









You're probably right!


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom* 
ETA It's probably a good idea to cut off crusts, actually. It's the exterior, essentially slightly burned, part of the bread that is probably carcinogenic like charred grilled meat. It is, at least, likely devoid of nutritional value.











You're kidding, right? There was a study that actually showed that bread crust might REDUCE cancer risks because of increased fiber and antioxidants.

http://www.nbc10.com/health/1760741/detail.html


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

Another angle I'd like to bring up, for all of you who tsk-tsk over your friend's child that eats nothing but pizza or mac and cheese.

It may only be YOUR PERCEPTION that the child eats only these things.

My 3yoDD needs encouragement to eat all but a few things. She is offered a wide and varied diet most days, but when we are having company I will often serve her some things that I *know* she will eagerly eat... simply because it's easier. I'm doing a lot when I'm hosting and it's just difficult to juggle everything while making sure my kid gets fed, too.

So, I save the pizza or Annie's in a box for those occasions. She eats without a fuss, whatever friend she has over at the time generally likes those things, too, and I get to actually enjoy my meal and my company.

It has crossed my mind that my friends/relatives might think that I only feed my kid pizza and Annie's! Perhaps they are posting indignant rolley eyed smiles in threads about me, somewhere on the Internet...


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
You're kidding, right? There was a study that actually showed that bread crust might REDUCE cancer risks because of increased fiber and antioxidants.

http://www.nbc10.com/health/1760741/detail.html

Ack! THEY were right! Crust is good for you, makes your hair curly, whatever else we've been told all our lives!









Thanks, my previous post was just a hypothesis. Glad to have it scientifically nixed, though I think you could have skipped the eyes roll and the "you're kidding". It wasn't as if the idea made no sense or as if I was asserting it as scientific fact.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
It may only be YOUR PERCEPTION that the child eats only these things.









My ds is easy overstimulated, doesn't eat well in a crowd. But if he doesn't eat, he has a melt down. I'm very happy if he will eat white bread and butter or a box of cookies in social situations. At home, when he is well rested and calm, I focus on more nutritious foods.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *4evermom* 
Ack! THEY were right! Crust is good for you, makes your hair curly, whatever else we've been told all our lives!









Thanks, my previous post was just a hypothesis. Glad to have it scientifically nixed, though I think you could have skipped the eyes roll and the "you're kidding". It wasn't as if the idea made no sense or as if I was asserting it as scientific fact.









The "you're kidding" and eyeroll was because this is exactly the kind of thing parents do that perpetuates pickiness. "Oh, that's okay to not eat the crust... it probably causes cancer anyway." I think a lot of people don't realize that these kinds of casual comments penetrate the minds of young kids and DOES turn them off of certain foods. This just lends more credence to the argument that picky eaters are made, not born.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
The "you're kidding" and eyeroll was because this is exactly the kind of thing parents do that perpetuates pickiness. "Oh, that's okay to not eat the crust... it probably causes cancer anyway."

Well, if you hear me _say_ that to my _child_, go ahead and roll your eyes. This is however a discussion forum full of adults and it was simply a reasonable theory.









And, no, my child can't read, either.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
The "you're kidding" and eyeroll was because this is exactly the kind of thing parents do that perpetuates pickiness. "Oh, that's okay to not eat the crust... it probably causes cancer anyway." I think a lot of people don't realize that these kinds of casual comments penetrate the minds of young kids and DOES turn them off of certain foods. This just lends more credence to the argument that picky eaters are made, not born.

Except scientific evidence, which is not based on prejudice around how young children "should" eat or the desire to judge other parents as worse-than, has shown that pickiness is likely genetic.

However a preference for junk food is different.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Except scientific evidence, which is not based on prejudice around how young children "should" eat or the desire to judge other parents as worse-than, has shown that pickiness is likely genetic.

However a preference for junk food is different.

Do you have a link to this scientific evidence, please? I like seeing the data... which often changes my mind.


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## meganeilis (Mar 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Congrats, but I have NEVER required my son to eat anything he didn't like, nor have I withheld food from him when he was hungry to get him to eat something new to meet some goal, and he eats pretty much everything. I think that is genetic. I have the decency to assume that it's a range and other people's kids fall on different places in the range.

I think there are respectful ways - modelling, providing opportunity, making mealtimes and new meals fun - to encourage a child to develop his or her own taste, without having to get into this whole moralistic "picky eaters have sucky parents!" thing. Or even having to work at it.

ETA: I'm not trying to be more AP than thou. I'm just kind of amazed that people who accept that children develop discipline over time and with gentle guidance, or that we breastfeed on demand and trust the child, express that picky eating must be stamped out! Or else!

Saying that "I have the *deceney* to xyz" and "I'm just amazed" is pulling a I'm more AP, holier that thou attitude. I've never forced my child to eat something, and I've never withheld food. I don't have to because I haven't created a situation where my son will only eat one of a half dozen foods. And if a parent does create that kind of situation, no longer providing those foods is not withholding all FOOD, a normal kid won't waste away if they don't have their favorite starch, one fruit and one veggie. And giving a child a variety of healthy options that are not on their chosen grocery list is not forcing them to eat something they don't like, I'm not advocating strapping your kid down and shoving things in his/her mouth.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

This is the twins study:

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/86/2/428


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## lindberg99 (Apr 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Do you have a link to this scientific evidence, please? I like seeing the data... which often changes my mind.

I think she is talking about how super tasters avoid bitter tastes like in some vegetables. I did a quick search and found one article. Maybe the PP has more.

http://www.umich.edu/news/index.html...b97/chr021297b


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
Saying that "I have the *deceney* to xyz" and "I'm just amazed" is pulling a I'm more AP, holier that thou attitude. I've never forced my child to eat something, and I've never withheld food. I don't have to because *I haven't created a situation where my son will only eat one of a half dozen foods*. And if a parent does create that kind of situation, no longer providing those foods is not withholding all FOOD, a normal kid won't waste away if they don't have their favorite starch, one fruit and one veggie. And giving a child a variety of healthy options that are not on their chosen grocery list is not forcing them to eat something they don't like, I'm not advocating strapping your kid down and shoving things in his/her mouth.


And maybe other parents haven't created that situation either. As I said, I had no need whatsoever to remove foods from my son's diet for him to try other things. I don't know why it's such a leap to think that maybe that's HIM and maybe other kids are, gasp, different from yours and mine.


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## lindberg99 (Apr 23, 2003)

So those of you who have picky eaters who were born, not made, are you picky?

I have one picky eater and two who aren't. I will generally eat whatever is in front of me, esp. if I don't have to cook it!







My DH is very picky though. Vegetables are really problematic for him.

I did that tasting the paper test in school and I couldn't taste anything. He said he could really taste it. So I guess it makes sense genetically that one of our three kids is picky.


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## lindberg99 (Apr 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
And maybe other parents haven't created that situation either. As I said, I had no need whatsoever to remove foods from my son's diet for him to try other things. I don't know why it's such a leap to think that maybe that's HIM and maybe other kids are, gasp, different from yours and mine.

Yeah, I remember my neighbor saying how she "wouldn't allow" her daughter to be a picky eater. Well, her daughter refused to wear socks, overalls, pants with elastic, etc., etc.. My picky eater doesn't. Does that mean that I "haven't allowed" my daughter to have clothing issues? No. It just means that she doesn't have them just like this other little girl didn't have picky eating issues.

In general, I think that people think that picky eaters are caused by something the parent did. People used to think this about autistic kids too. My neighbor's autistic son is 43 and she was told that she caused him to be that way.


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

OP, I think it's mix of nurture and nature. Not sure how the topic strayed to 'who's a better parent'.









Some kids are picky, some are not. Sometimes food becomes a power struggle, and pickiness develops as a tactic in that game.


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindberg99* 
So those of you who have picky eaters who were born, not made, are you picky?

I was quite picky as a child, and it was almost always about texture. My palate expanded quite a bit as an adult, but you will never see me eat oatmeal willingly.


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## sacredmama (Dec 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindberg99* 
So those of you who have picky eaters who were born, not made, are you picky?

My picky eater is exactly the same as I was. Nothing in the world could get me to eat stuff I didn't want to, same with DS. I feel I did everything "right" to ensure I didn't have a picky eater, so I'm convinced he was born this way, and that it is a phase. I've learned to not let it bother me that SO many people judge me and think that it's "wrong" that my son is picky. He eats perfectly healthy foods and someday, like me, he will decide to try some new things.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Those links are very strong evidence. My mother is an extremely picky eater. I was as a child and forced myself to become a more adventurous eater (out of necessity as I started traveling to exotic places with no foods familiar in the US) and then dd, who also travels with us now is an extremely adventurous eater. There were times I had to introduce a food to her probably 20 times, though, before she became a fan of it. Others, like mussels, oysters, organ meats, okra (well, most vegetables), she took to immediately. There are a lot of foods that she loves that I am simply not fond of. But I cook it and I eat it and she sees me eating it, and in response has a healthy attitude about these "odd" foods and enjoys them, even while I'm not.

That article says that with persistence a parent can turn a picky child into a non-picky child. Perhaps I would have had a picky child too if I had given up. In our case, I knew that dd would be traveling to places that she *had* to expand her palate or be sick with hunger so I never gave up... and today, well, I already explained that above. For dd, myself and my mother it has never been an issue with texture, btw... just taste.

I also thought I'd add that dd and I both know when something is not freshly made. There have been times that when eating out dd will say, "I think this came from a can" or I'll say something similar. We both can taste the chemicals in processed food.

I'm also 100% convinced that kids (and adults) can become addicted to processed foods and crave fast food for that reason.


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

I noticed that sometimes people take pickiness _personally_, almost. Even as an adult, I've had friend's/hosts get upset because I didn't want to eat a particular item. So the heck what? My ex-room mate would get seriously butthurt when I turned down the okra she made. And she made me oatmeal for months, and got upset every time I explained that I did, in fact, hate oatmeal.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 

I'm also 100% convinced that kids (and adults) can become addicted to processed foods and crave fast food for that reason.

I totally agree with this - I was raised on processed food and had to wean myself off of them.

I also agree that parents can impact on their child's range - within the range. But I think that it is time to acknowledge that picky eating, like personality, may come pre-loaded, and it's not a character flaw. And how parents choose to deal with it is really up to them.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindberg99* 
So those of you who have picky eaters who were born, not made, are you picky?

Not at all! Ds was quite the surprise, lol. But he has helped me understand my dh is a variety of ways and helped me stop being judgmental towards my mil.


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindberg99* 
So those of you who have picky eaters who were born, not made, are you picky?

I have one picky eater and two who aren't. I will generally eat whatever is in front of me, esp. if I don't have to cook it!







My DH is very picky though. Vegetables are really problematic for him.

I did that tasting the paper test in school and I couldn't taste anything. He said he could really taste it. So I guess it makes sense genetically that one of our three kids is picky.

I'm a picky eater and dd is but her's is more related to sensory issues. She doesn't like certian textures like yogurt, icecream, paint, wet sand, mud. I am pretty sure a lot of it is related to her being a preemie. She also can't stand any sort of loud noises, hates crowds of people, and says certian types of clothes hurt her.

My dh, on the other hand, is a picky eater, but his pickiness is related to his mother. She spent his entire childhood telling him raw fruits and veggies were awful. She boiled everything, including lettuce. He has never even tried most foods that he says he doesn't like. I got him to taste my salad for the first time last month and he actually liked it.


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## lindberg99 (Apr 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Perhaps I would have had a picky child too if I had given up.

Or maybe not. You said your daughter took readily to vegetables, organ meats, mussels, etc. Maybe she wouldn't have been picky no matter what you did. Genetic traits are not always passed down. My DH was very picky and still is more so than me and two of our kids aren't at all.

Do you only have one child? Is her father picky? You'll have to have a few more kids and let us know if they are picky. Then we can better analyze the genetics.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindberg99* 
Or maybe not. You said your daughter took readily to vegetables, organ meats, mussels, etc. Maybe she wouldn't have been picky no matter what you did. Genetic traits are not always passed down. My DH was very picky and still is more so than me and two of our kids aren't at all.

Do you only have one child? Is her father picky? You'll have to have a few more kids and let us know if they are picky. Then we can better analyze the genetics.









Well, she's an only so we'll have to leave it at that.







. My point was that she took readily to these "odd-for-a-child-to-like" foods when there were no other options. We were abroad when she first tried these foods... there were no alternatives.

I would say that no, dh is not picky, but then again, he is not American. He did not grow up eating the same foods I did and dd is eating now, so there's really no comparison. He immigrated to the US 31 years ago as a college student and to this day, when we go "home", he is in heaven when he gets to eat the local fare. Even if I try to make what his sister makes, the very produce used is different... different soil, etc. That's why I argue that there has to be certain amount of environment that plays a role.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FancyD* 
I noticed that sometimes people take pickiness _personally_, almost. Even as an adult, I've had friend's/hosts get upset because I didn't want to eat a particular item. So the heck what? My ex-room mate would get seriously butthurt when I turned down the okra she made. And she made me oatmeal for months, and got upset every time I explained that I did, in fact, hate oatmeal.

In the US, at least, food is emotional. How many of us have parents that try to show us love through cooking/baking? Both my mother and my MIL do this. If I'm having a bad day, MIL will bake an apple pie for me. On special occasions my mom always makes a fancy meal and gives me candy as a gift. It's not really healthy (physically or emotionally) to be so focused on food -- in fact I have asked my mother to refrain from giving candy as gifts -- but I've seen this phenomenon many times. And, to show how deeply-rooted food is in our culture, the phrase "The quickest way to a man's heart is through his stomach" says it all.

I would guess that many women, particularly mothers and other caretakers, have "Acts of Service" of one of their love languages. To do something for another person, particularly cook, is their way of demonstrating their love. When the recipient rejects their cooking, it feels like they are rejecting their love. This rejection can sting just as much as your partner walking off silently when you tell them you love them.

I have spent a lot of time getting hurt by my DHs rejection of my food. It doesn't bother me so much any more, but sometimes it still does. I am one that likes to cook for my DH to demonstrate my love. To avoid rejection, I now just bake for him since he likes most sweets. On special occasions we just go to a restaurant even though I'd rather cook him a meal. It's less stressful that way, though, and we both get meals we like.


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## jellybellyxoxo (Jul 3, 2008)

You're made a picky eater. One of my kids would LOVE to eat peppers, squash, ect and now she hates stuff like that.


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## Learnintolaugh (Nov 9, 2006)

I think we are born with a predetermined tendency and parents need to try to figure out what that is and how to mold it.

I honestly never thought I would have a picky child. In fact I SWORE I would never have a picky child and would have argued vehemently that it was all nurture that determined it. Enter my picky child. I strongly suspect it is a sensory thing for him in some regards, some smells used to send him into screaming fits, and even today I cut open a cantelope and he immediately ran out of the room saying "That stinks." (DH also hates the smell of cantelope, both my 2nd son and I love it.) He actually started out eating a variety of things, although it was a long time before texture didn't make him gag. The pickiness started about the time other developmental issues started cropping up. And initially I fought it. I would sit there at the table with the plate of food that he used to LOVE in front of him insisting that he eat just one bite. Eventually mealtime became an unhappy battleground and I backed off on my tactics. That doesn't mean I switched to chicken nuggets and french fries though. I've tried to make what he does eat as nutritious as possible. He loves bread, so as often as I can I bake my own whole wheat bread. He loves spaghetti - whole wheat blend pasta and homemade sauce into which I try to sneak some extra veggies. And he is slowly, slowly adding new foods. I was thrilled to pieces when he decided he liked scrambled eggs. Oh, and he's always liked peas and corn. So I keep putting the new foods in front of him, it's up to him whether or not he will try them. Generally it's a no, on the occassions that he has he has often gagged and nearly thrown up.

Son #2 is completely different. He may insist initially that he doesn't want something, but leave it set there in front of him and before long he will usually try it and often declare it yummy. And sometimes not.

Two kids raised by the same parents, raised as similarly as I could with regards to food...yet I get two very different outcomes. To me that says that there is something at play other than simply parenting. I can guide them and model healthy food choices, but ultimately it really is up to them.

(This year I planted a garden with the hopes that if he helps grow it he'll eat it, we'll see.)


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## eclipse (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lindberg99* 
So those of you who have picky eaters who were born, not made, are you picky?

I have one picky eater and two who aren't. I will generally eat whatever is in front of me, esp. if I don't have to cook it!







My DH is very picky though. Vegetables are really problematic for him.

I did that tasting the paper test in school and I couldn't taste anything. He said he could really taste it. So I guess it makes sense genetically that one of our three kids is picky.

This is the way it is in my house, too. I certainly had food I didn't like as a kid (and there are some foods I won't eat to this day because we were poor and I often had to eat the same foods for weeks because it was cheap and that's what we had. ), but my palate really expanded, starting in my teens. My husband, though - hoo boy! He's not as limited in what he'll eat as my son, but it's still really bad. A lot of it with both my husband and son is sensory - certain textures are completely off limits, which is why they both have a problem with most fruits. Some of it is stubborness/anxiety - for example, there are foods my dh has never tried that he insists he won't like. It's really frustrating for me, but I feel like - if 99 out of every 100 foods I tried made me want to throw up, would I keep trying new foods in an attempt to find the 1 I liked? Or would I just stick with what I knew went down easy?


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## MelKnee (Dec 5, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jellybellyxoxo* 
You're made a picky eater. One of my kids would LOVE to eat peppers, squash, ect and now she hates stuff like that.

Could you expand on this? I'm not sure what you're saying. Thanks!


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## felix23 (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
Those links are very strong evidence. My mother is an extremely picky eater. I was as a child and forced myself to become a more adventurous eater (out of necessity as I started traveling to exotic places with no foods familiar in the US) and then dd, who also travels with us now is an extremely adventurous eater. There were times I had to introduce a food to her probably 20 times, though, before she became a fan of it. Others, like mussels, oysters, organ meats, okra (well, most vegetables), she took to immediately. There are a lot of foods that she loves that I am simply not fond of. But I cook it and I eat it and she sees me eating it, and in response has a healthy attitude about these "odd" foods and enjoys them, even while I'm not.

That article says that with persistence a parent can turn a picky child into a non-picky child. Perhaps I would have had a picky child too if I had given up. In our case, I knew that dd would be traveling to places that she *had* to expand her palate or be sick with hunger so I never gave up... and today, well, I already explained that above. For dd, myself and my mother it has never been an issue with texture, btw... just taste.

I also thought I'd add that dd and I both know when something is not freshly made. There have been times that when eating out dd will say, "I think this came from a can" or I'll say something similar. We both can taste the chemicals in processed food.

I'm also 100% convinced that kids (and adults) can become addicted to processed foods and crave fast food for that reason.


My mother forced me to try three bites of okra almost everyday during the summer for 10 years. And every single time it made me gag. I still can't even stand the smell of it. We raised most of the food we ate, almost never ate fast food and my mother made us eat three bites of everything she served (minus celery for me, she got tired of me throwing up), but I still was a picky child.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
The "you're kidding" and eyeroll was because this is exactly the kind of thing parents do that perpetuates pickiness. "Oh, that's okay to not eat the crust... it probably causes cancer anyway." I think a lot of people don't realize that these kinds of casual comments penetrate the minds of young kids and DOES turn them off of certain foods.

Conversely, your previous post might cause some parents to say, "Eat your crusts or you'll get cancer!" (Or your hair won't curl, or whatever.)

Which seems just as bad to me as the situation you're concerned about here.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
Conversely, your previous post might cause some parents to say, "Eat your crusts or you'll get cancer!" (Or your hair won't curl, or whatever.)

Which seems just as bad to me as the situation you're concerned about here.

My concern here is parents making ANY kind of judgmental statement about food in front of kids. Leave the damned commentary out of it! Don't say, "Oh I know you won't like this, but I'll put it on your plate" or "I hated this growing up, but you try it anyway" or "This is the best XYZ you'll ever eat, so dig in!" or even "Yuck!". Put the food in front of a person and let them judge it for themselves without prejudicing them against it. I would have had 10 more years to enjoy peas in life if my mother hadn't turned me off of them as a child with a simple comment.


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Yeah, one friend of mine actually called McDonald's burgers "slimeburgers" in front of her kids ... blessedly that didn't turn 'em off of McDonald's!


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I guess for me the main thing is that I personally find the moralistic stance AGAINST picky eating difficult.
.

ITA!!

One thing that really, really bugs me is when parents act so smug that they have adventurous eaters, and believe that it is all due to their wonderful parenting. Agh!!

Yes, you can influence, but that's as far as it goes. I have to say that the wicked side of me hopes that every one of those smug parents-of-the-adventurous-eater gets a second kid who is p-i-c-k-y.

I hate hearing how people 'made' their children grow up not to be picky, and I hate hearing how others 'made' their children picky.

There's this little thing, called _personality_, that comes into play, with eating as with everything else. And there's not a whole lot you can do about it, except accept it and value it, whether it is a picky personality or an adventurous one.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meganeilis* 
We all have preferences, but IMO downright pickiness is something that parents contribute to and foster in their children. You don't have to force your kid to eat peas if the smell or texture literally makes them gag, but whining, complaining, only eating things that are white (bread, rice, plain pasta), nuh-uh. That is a decision you make as a parentto allow to continue. DH recently had a co-worker tell him that his 3 year old would only eat Eggo waffles. We both wondered, why keep buying waffles? Ditto my nieces refusing to eat ANYTHING but plain bread at a family party. They are 5 and 7. Take away the bread, and tell them they're out of luck unless they pick somethign that has a color.

If there was only bread there that my kids wanted to eat, that's what I'd let them eat. No biggie.

Honestly, I don't think it's worth having a battle over. If we got to a potluck, often my kids will only eat the dish I took. If we go to a dinner, and they don't like the food, they will eat only what they do like, which might be bread. Unless I"m feeling fragile and feel the vibes of judgment from others, I just let it go.

At home we can give them healthy options that they like, but at a party, why would I want to spoil the event by fussing over it?

Actually, on Friday we went to a bbq at my dh's workplace. My kids are vegetarian, so there wasn't much that they wanted to eat. They didn't like the salads, and the corn, to be honest, was gross. They ate bread, and filled up on candy. A couple of times I felt embarrassed when I saw people looking at them, but then, I wasn't going to let it spoil our afternoon. They had a blast, and when we got home, we cleaned teeth and ate some fruit and yoghurt.

I wouldn't dream of controlling my kids at a party the way you describe, by taking away the only food they wanted to eat. If someone did that to me, I'd be pretty upset, so I wouldn't do it to a child. Life is too short, and my relationship with my children is too precious, to get into power struggles and control like that.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I find the judgment in this whole thread depressing and sad. If you all come to my house you're welcome to eat, or not, pick out the onions, or not. I like people, not eating habits.









Wow, that's the third post I've read of yours today that has me nodding furiously in agreement.

I'd come to your house any day (as long as if you served soup, you did _not_ make me eat it.)


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I think it's both.

My dd hasn't ever had mcdonalds, so she's not asking for that. And one of the (many) things she won't eat is hamburgers









But she was offered fruits and veggies (and only fruits and veggies for awhile) yet right now there are few fruits and veggies she'll eat









A lot of it is a stage.

-Angela


I haven't read all the replies, but I agree with this. My picky eater would eat anything you put in front of him until about the age of 3. Asparagus would make him jump up and down.

Now at 3.5 -- not so much. In fact he refused it just last night. He's become a total carb addict. He routinely doesn't eat what I offer, but will help himself to some bread or a tortilla throughout the day.

FWIW, he won't eat hot dogs either. But he loooooves mac-n-cheese. It's my lazy mom dinner when we've stayed at the playground too late. I make Annies, substitute plain yogurt for the butter and milk, and grind up flax seeds or throw in some chia seeds. I no longer consider that junk food.


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat* 
Another angle I'd like to bring up, for all of you who tsk-tsk over your friend's child that eats nothing but pizza or mac and cheese.

It may only be YOUR PERCEPTION that the child eats only these things.

My 3yoDD needs encouragement to eat all but a few things. She is offered a wide and varied diet most days, but when we are having company I will often serve her some things that I *know* she will eagerly eat... simply because it's easier. I'm doing a lot when I'm hosting and it's just difficult to juggle everything while making sure my kid gets fed, too.

So, I save the pizza or Annie's in a box for those occasions. She eats without a fuss, whatever friend she has over at the time generally likes those things, too, and I get to actually enjoy my meal and my company.

It has crossed my mind that my friends/relatives might think that I only feed my kid pizza and Annie's! Perhaps they are posting indignant rolley eyed smiles in threads about me, somewhere on the Internet...









:


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

I say it could be either.

On one hand - you have things like sensory processing disorder (spd/sid/etc)...which, if overlooked or unaware of in a child - can make them just seem a 'picky' eater.peo..when in reality, well..the reality is much different!

On the other hand - I think the majority of 'picky eaters' are made that way. This might be MDC... But I really do not know many remotly close to living like anyone else here on MDC...just living or parenting wise! lol...Most 'picky eaters' I know were certainly made that way...go to their house which is full of 'crap' type foods. Said child will not eat so they are offered an 'unhealthy' alternative. I do not know how my friends daughter is still living - the only fruit she will eat is a banana but no other fruit of veggie passes her lips. If her mother remember to, she will still puree fruit/veg and hide it in her near four year old daughters food. I wouldnt be surprised if she didtn know what a carrot looked like!...Her mother says she is just 'picky'....really? lol

At the end of the day - the majority of children just will not starve themselves to death. (if they do, then obviously there is some other issue there that needs looking at - like spd and the likes, etc) - so I think a lot of children can be made picky because of this.


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## Joyster (Oct 26, 2007)

I used to be the type to think that picky eaters were made. I would really be smug about this to myself as my then 1 year old would eat anything under the sky and being a bit of a foodie from my city, I mean anything and everything. Then he hit 2 and to my dismay his diet went down to about a dozen items. Thankfully he'll still gorge on fruit, but right now, he'd happily live on a diet of toast, cheese and melons. If I'm lucky he'll indulge me in some chicken breast. Thankfully he'll still eat my veggie soup and I'm just praying that this is a stage.


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## tarahsolazy (Jan 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 

I do know kids who get genuinely distressed about new foods though and if I had one, I hope I would be respectful to the child first (as your approach is too) by providing at least one thing on the table on the 'short list' as it were.

I guess for me the main thing is that I personally find the moralistic stance AGAINST picky eating difficult.

I don't personally believe that not eating a large range of foods is a character flaw (as long as refusals are polite). It may make some things difficult, like being a guest, but it is not up there for me on the list of things I would want to get upset about.

We have struggled with this issue for two years now, and I like the things GuildJenn is saying. My four year old son is AFRAID to try new foods, that is how he phrases it. As a baby, we did everything "right": nursed for a good long time, offered huge variety of foods, never force fed, didn't spoon feed much, no juice, no junk food, etc... At 18 months, we had to get him his own order of tofu red curry, or he'd eat all DH's food when we got Indian take-out. He slowly stopped eating a lot of things, and now would prefer a diet of dairy, some bread products, some cereals, some pasta, some fruits, a few meats. No veggies at all. And, there a few kinds of things in each category that are OK, but not all. Certain shapes of pasta, certain bread (whole wheat only, no nuts or seeds) certain fruits. Other than force feed him, I have no idea what we could have done to prevent this. We are constantly working on it. He gets served the same things as the rest of us at dinner, but we try to include something he likes. So he may eat only apples and milk for dinner, but he was offered the collard greens and flank steak the rest of us had.

I think part of it in our case is also that my DH, who does all the cooking, experiments a lot with new recipes. We probably eat 2-3 dinners a week that include new recipes with unfamiliar ingredients, and only 1 out of every 5 of those recipes ends up on the repeating roster. So there is new stuff a lot. Honestly, I wish he didn't do this, since I am a bit of a food phobe myself, and I eat everything he makes, and we eat it until its gone. I think a roster of 30 or so meals that are healthy and well-rounded can be a comforting routine in a good way for a kid.

My 15 mo old DD is one of those toddlers who will eat pretty much anything, but I'm not patting myself on the back. Who knows what will happen next. We are feeding her the same as we did DS.


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## limette (Feb 25, 2008)

i'm going to say both. i was considered a picky eater as a child but i wouldn't call myself that now (others might). i'm willing to try most things once and i'm always trying new recipes.

the foods that i didn't like as a child and still don't like have nothing to do with taste and everything to do with texture. some textures make me gag.

my mom used to cook things for me that she knew i didn't like and then get mad when i refused to eat. i remember sitting at the table for hours staring at a plate of mac and cheese and my mom refusing to let me leave until i ate it. i told her it would me sick but she wouldn't budge. so i took one bite and threw up. she let me go after that but not until after she threw a big fit.

dd1 likes pretty much everything she's tried but is now going through a phase of only wanting very specific foods. Today it might be strawberries, tomorrow avocados, the next day eggs. I just roll with it.


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## KaraBoo (Nov 22, 2001)

I dunno...I cook a variety of foods, introduce new things, try not to get too attached to what she chooses, all the "right" things and still my child has a limited list of foods she will eat. Shrug.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Joyster* 
I used to be the type to think that picky eaters were made. I would really be smug about this to myself as my then 1 year old would eat anything under the sky and being a bit of a foodie from my city, I mean anything and everything. Then he hit 2 and to my dismay his diet went down to about a dozen items.









: That was us too. I thought I did everything "right". I breastfed him for over 3 years until he chose to wean, used very limited jarred foods, mostly made my own food for him as an older baby (whatever we were eating for the most part), limited juice and junk food, etc. One of his absolute favorite foods as a 1 year old was gazpacho. He LOVED it. Grandpa couldn't make it fast enough for the boy. I have pictures of my brothers birthday. I put a piece of chocolate cake in front of ds and he BAWLED. Absolute hysterics. I took it away and gave him a bowl of gazpacho and he was so thrilled!

And then all of a sudden he was refusing foods he had previously eaten. He was down to less than a dozen foods (fortunately some of them were healthy- like bananas and apples), though some were not healthy at all (fries and cheeze-it crackers have been favorites for years). Did I do anything wrong? I don't think so. I still, 4 years later, offer him everything we're eating. Not a meal has gone by where I haven't offered him new foods.

He's now in feeding therapy, and has been since last year. He's doing awesome in this and it's helped tremendously. I think I'm one of the rare parents who jumped for joy when their child ate a fruit loop. LOL! But, at 4 years old, he'd NEVER eaten ANY cereal before. The day he took a bite of a chicken nugget was a celebration (he still eats no meat/fish/beans at all.... the chicken nugget was a fluke- 1 time deal). He has learned to eat many many healthy foods through feeding therapy (cantelope being the newest one) but it is really hard for him to try new foods.

(DS has autism and probably SID/SPD)


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

I'm wondering, seriously, why everyone thinks that foods like mac'n'cheese or pizza are so bad?

OK, I get it that the processed stuff with a ton of colors and additives is bad. But organic, good quality mac'n'cheese, with a couple of veggies? Is that such a horrible meal to feed a kid? Or a wholewheat cheese pizza? Again, with a fruit plate or veggies as a side?

I really feel like I'm missing something, because my kids love meals like that and I don't think of it as the food of the devil. And come to think of it, I like it too, and so does dh.

My kids do eat some other stuff too, so this is not every meal, but honestly, if they went through a phase where that was what they would eat, I couldn't see myself fretting overmuch about it.

I was raised on a very limited British diet. Meat, potatoes, vegetable. Every.single. meal.

I didnt taste pasta or rice or even pizza until I was in college. When I did, I was thrilled to find that I liked all those other foods ----- after being _terrified_ to taste them first time. I assume that a lot of kids are the same, and maybe mine will be too. But if they live on a limited diet, so be it. Same as if I'd stuck to my British meat, potatoes, veggies. I'd have lived, and so will they. Probably quite healthily, in fact.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum* 
I'm wondering, seriously, why everyone thinks that foods like mac'n'cheese or pizza are so bad?

OK, I get it that the processed stuff with a ton of colors and additives is bad. But organic, good quality mac'n'cheese, with a couple of veggies? Is that such a horrible meal to feed a kid? Or a wholewheat cheese pizza? Again, with a fruit plate or veggies as a side?

If a parent is being conscientious enough about their child's diet to make sure that the mac 'n' cheese is organic, homemade deliciousness and the pizzas are whole wheat and homemade, my guess is that they are conscientious enough to make sure their kids are not getting all the additives and preservatives and hfcs that are causing so many health issues in kids. It's the kids like my great nieces and nephew that get the boxed mac 'n' cheese every day, along with chicken mcnuggets, french fries, processed pastries, heavily sweetened applesauce that contains HFCS, snacks that come in plastic wrap and had soda pop in their bottles that are at issue here for me. These kids don't even know everyday vegetables like cabbage, zucchini, and peppers and *never* get a meal from scratch or even a dessert that's not from a box. I love these kids and it hurts to see them going through such health problems related to how they eat (hospital stays for impacted bowels, the 8 year old going through precocious puberty and being on high blood pressure and high cholesterol medicine for example).

The food you are talking about (whole grains, real cheese, fresh fruit, vegetables) are a far cry different from the processed crap that so many parents blindingly feed their child every day out of ignorance or (in my niece's case) laziness in the name of pickiness. I mean, if a child likes chicken, it seems to me that if they insist that it comes from a certain fast food restaurant and won't eat it any other way... well, that's just a power trip. If a child doesn't like the taste of chicken, that's a whole other story.


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## vermonttaylors (May 17, 2005)

I think they are mostly made, but people do seem to be born with preferences for certain things and aversions towards others. I WISH I liked raw tomatoes, but they make me gag. DS doesn't like black beans (although he tries them every time) and dd isn't keen on peppers.

My experience has only been with children who spent the better part of their first year in an orphanage, and in general, kids who have NOT been getting food on demand, tend to just want FOOD all the time and are not too picky about what it is.

I honestly don't know if my kids are such adventurous eaters because of their start in life, or if it is because we eat a huge variety of food and I don't make special meals (except for babies of course, but even then it's a varied diet) or both. All In know is that it makes life extremely easy because we travel so much, and I know I can always feed my kids. They will eat anything!


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum* 
I'm wondering, seriously, why everyone thinks that foods like mac'n'cheese or pizza are so bad?

OK, I get it that the processed stuff with a ton of colors and additives is bad. But organic, good quality mac'n'cheese, with a couple of veggies? Is that such a horrible meal to feed a kid? Or a wholewheat cheese pizza? Again, with a fruit plate or veggies as a side?

Because the majority of parents who fix these types of meals for kids as a regular thing are probably NOT doing organic/veggie added/whole wheat. They are doing the blue box in a bowl or calling the cheapest pizza delivery. Or buying those Kid Cuisine frozen meals. *That* is not healthy on a day to day basis.

Speaking of those Kid Cuisine things.... I let ds get almost anything (food wise) he asks for. If he asks for it and expresses interest in eating it, we buy it (sometimes not at that exact moment, we might wait for it to go on sale but we eventually buy it for him). Because of all his food issues he was NEVER wanting to try anything new. So now that he's asking for new foods we encourage it. Anyway, at the store the other day he asked for one of those Kid Cuisine meals. I about had a heart attack. I think that's the only thing I've said "no" to. Have you ever looked at the nutrition facts? Holy crap that's a lot of sodium! I'm 99% sure it would have been un-eaten anyway, but I just couldn't do it. DP commented that he ate a lot of those as a kid.... it only took me reminding him of his blood pressure issues for him to realize we were not buying one for Owen.

But he does eat, and love, Kraft Mac n Cheese (only kind he'll eat







) and pizza (with all the toppings scrapped off).


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
I think a lot of people don't realize that these kinds of casual comments penetrate the minds of young kids and DOES turn them off of certain foods. This just lends more credence to the argument that picky eaters are made, not born.











My mother was an extremely unadventerous eater. The type to proclaim she didn't like something she had probably never tried. As a result, I was in my late teens before I tried guacomole, refried beans, anything my mom thought "looked gross". I didn't try curry until I was an adult - my mom always said curry smelled disgusting. What a surprise - I loved them.

I think picky eaters can be made. I dont' think my picky eater was made.


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## maliceinwonderland (Apr 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Britishmum* 
I'm wondering, seriously, why everyone thinks that foods like mac'n'cheese or pizza are so bad?

OK, I get it that the processed stuff with a ton of colors and additives is bad. But organic, good quality mac'n'cheese, with a couple of veggies? Is that such a horrible meal to feed a kid? Or a wholewheat cheese pizza? Again, with a fruit plate or veggies as a side?

I really feel like I'm missing something, because my kids love meals like that and I don't think of it as the food of the devil. And come to think of it, I like it too, and so does dh.


I don't think they're bad unless it's a constant (eg - my sister's son gets a bowl of ice cream and a chocolate bar for breakfast because that's what he'll eat). I imagine a lot of MDCers would cringe if they saw some of the things we eat, but I don't count every french fry as my kids being one step closer to a heart attack. I couldn't live like that and I think the negative association with food could rub off on kids causing significant problems later on in life. As long as our diet is balanced I don't worry about junk. If one of the kids started wanting only junk, it would all disappear quickly until they were eating properly again.


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## Britishmum (Dec 25, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maliceinwonderland* 
I don't think they're bad unless it's a constant (eg - my sister's son gets a bowl of ice cream and a chocolate bar for breakfast because that's what he'll eat). I imagine a lot of MDCers would cringe if they saw some of the things we eat, but I don't count every french fry as my kids being one step closer to a heart attack. I couldn't live like that and I think the negative association with food could rub off on kids causing significant problems later on in life. As long as our diet is balanced I don't worry about junk. If one of the kids started wanting only junk, it would all disappear quickly until they were eating properly again.

I agree that ice cream and chocolate daily for breakfast probably isn't the best habit to get into. I'd be concerned if that's what my kids wanted on a daily basis, and once they were old enough talk to them about what bodies need and how to make good choices. Although if the rest of the diet is OK, it doesn't really matter imo whether the ice cream is for breakfast or after dinner - in our house we eat some pretty weird stuff sometimes for breakfast. Dd went through a stage of eating a bowl of coleslaw for breakfast every day.







:









I have to say, though, that my kids choose to eat ice cream pretty much every day. I have it in the freezer, and they help themselves. If they want to eat more, they can. It's a non-issue. The only restraint is that dh shops once per week, so if the carton is gone on Tuesday, there won't be any more until Friday. They know this and they make things last - they will start rationing out the apples too if they see the bin is getting low. And in fact they often serve less ice cream for themselves than I would if I were serving, which shows me that they self-regulate very well.

I also let them choose what they want for most meals. Often it's mac'n'cheese (I only buy organic) or pizza. Frequently it's yoghurt and fruit, or waffles with yoghurt, or stir-fry veggies too. But if it's mac'n'cheese every day, I don't see that as a big deal any more than if it were yoghurt every day. Rather like if they want to play chess every day - which they do at the moment. It's a phase, an enthusiasm, and it will probably pass - whether it's mac'n'cheese or chess.







If it doesn't, so what? They can eat mac'n'cheese when they are adults (dh certainly does) and they can play chess too!

I try to see food as objectively as I do other choices that my children make. They live in the real world, so I can't stop them from ever tasting the crap sort of mac'n'cheese. Nor can I stop them trying gunky costco b'day cake, although two of mine hate that stuff, and the third thinks he likes it but in fact takes a couple of spoonfulls, and leaves it. I think that the more you try to control food, or see 'picky' or 'adventurous' as something that you can place value upon, the more you are setting up issues for the future.

I'd rather ignore the fact that my child is 'picky' and make it a non-issue, than worry about it. If that means cutting crusts off bread, no biggie. If it means picking chunks of tomato out of a bowl of pasta as I serve, no biggie. Just as I'd tie their shoelaces if they asked, I'd pick out the tomato out of the pasta. Because I try to see it as the same sort of task. I think that we can get hung up on food in a way that is unhealthy.









So, I have what is thought by many as 'picky' eaters in my house. And I don't honestly care.


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## anitaj71 (Mar 1, 2006)

made


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## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
At the end of the day - the majority of children just will not starve themselves to death. (if they do, then obviously there is some other issue there that needs looking at - like spd and the likes, etc) - so I think a lot of children can be made picky because of this.

I'm puzzled by your post -- because I'd got the impression, from reading other posts of yours around the boards, that you pretty much believe in non-coercive parenting like me? So it's hard to imagine you saying "they won't starve themselves to death" (which I guess means you're advocating withholding the "crap-foods" to force them to eat the healthier foods once they get hungry enough?).

That just doesn't sound like the "you" I've conversed with on other threads! Of course, I know your son is pretty young, so if all you've been buying and serving at home are healthy foods, I can see that that's probably what he's used to and he's probably not asking for "crap." So there's likely no coercion or saying "No" involved.

However, at some point kids usually do learn about the foods that are popular with many of their peers in our (Western) society. But maybe when you do the crunchy thing totally right for the first few years, they shun the junk of their own volition, because they're used to higher-quality food?

I wouldn't know, as I can't claim to have done it totally right. My girls both do enjoy some fruits and vegetables -- my youngest enjoys practically everything, while my oldest has a smaller range, but definitely enough to thrive on -- we just make sure to have the ones she prefers on hand, while dh and I, and our 3yo, experiment freely. And our 8yo will taste a new thing, she's just not as likely to accept it as our 3yo.

Both girls also enjoy (and ask for) candy, periodic trips to McDonald's, and so on. I don't feel right about refusing whenever we have the means to get what they're asking for, so we get them these things, but I also talk about what our bodies need to grow and be healthy. Fortunately, our 3yo is unlikely to think about the unhealthy stuff unless she sees it, so we keep it put up, and try to make sure we've provided healthy stuff before she sees our 8yo with the candy and asks for some.

Our 8yo thinks about it on her own without having to see it -- but at least she also has a better understanding about taking care of herself, and about what constitutes proper nutrition.


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