# 3 years old next week and still talking gibberish



## tibris

Let me start with she hears just fine. In fact she hears way too well when I'm trying to sneak around. She knows when the fridge is opened, she knows when I open an animal cage. She hears REALLY well. She understands really well. I can explain to her and she can follow instruction. She has a handful of words she uses regularly, but when it comes to teaching her new words and trying to get her to repeat things her response is "No." Teaching her to say please was awful. When she is hungry she says eat and repeats it getting angrier if I don't immediately go help her find food or if I start asking her specifically what she wants "crackers, strawberries, etc" She wants me to go into the kitchen so she can point out what she wants. She is getting frustrated at her lack of ability to communicate. I need some new methods to help her communicate. We tried signing when she was smaller, but she never really cared for it. there were only 3-4 signs she ever used. She will talk for two minutes straight in her own language and sometimes I'm pretty sure she is speaking english, sometimes I can even figure out the sentence she says! But it's so hard for anyone else to understand her. DH didn't really start talking till 3 so I haven't been that worried about it, but here we are she's three. My other two started talking in full sentences WAY early and I've always heard it's not unusual the more you have for them to talk later cause siblings talk for them.

She does sing jingle bells  Hence why I'm really not thinking it's a developmental problem more that I need some new methods to help her cause the methods I used with my other two aren't working with her. Thanks


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## zinemama

That would worry me. What does your pediatrican say?


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## tibris

Once again, not worried, looking for other tips and tricks other than pointing out everything and saying the word associated with it.


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## cyclamen

Picture cards?


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## LynnS6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tibris*
> 
> Once again, not worried, looking for other tips and tricks other than pointing out everything and saying the word associated with it.


I'm sorry, but I think you should be worried. What your daughter is doing is outside the bounds of typical development. She's not learning words and she has real trouble articulating. She's getting frustrated and what you're doing isn't helping.

She needs to be evaluated by a professional speech-language pathologist. You need to figure out what's causing her not to be able to speak. It could be hearing even if she can hear some things. Speech is in a certain frequency range and if she has trouble hearing in that range, language will be hard. It could be tongue tie, mouth shape, a neurological issue, or something like apraxia. How you help your child will depend on what the issue is, and sometimes it takes a while to figure it out.

You need more than "tips and tricks" . You need to know WHICH tips and tricks to work on. Typically developing children don't need to have their parent teach them explicitly. The fact that your daughter does, the fact that it's hard for her (which is why she says "no") screams that there's something more going on. If she could do it with what you're doing, she would. She can't, so it's time for outside help. For kids this age that see a speech-language pathologist, the SLP works with them for a bit every week, and then you'll get stuff to work on at home. Every decent SLP that I know works with the parents.


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## tibris

Okay, sorry let me start over a little bit, when I say handful I would say there are 50 words or so she says regularly, there are a half a dozen or so phrases she uses regularly. She speaks, but when she doesn't know what to say she resorts to gibberish and our methods of trying to teach her the words she is looking for aren't working. That is why I was reluctant to post anything on this cause I figured this was the reaction I'd get! I am not worried, I feel like she is functioning perfectly normal for her. I believe forcing children into a mold is wrong, she can progress at her pace. If I were concerned about where she was I would consult a specialist, but I am not. I am simply looking for alternative ideas in teaching words. I am the one here with my child who witnesses this behavior day in, day out, and feel plenty confident to say she is just stubborn and thinks not saying the word I am asking for is a game especially the way she giggles and laughs at me while I am saying the word repeatedly and she continues to say no. The times she gets frustrated is when it has to do with food or abstract things like please. She starts out giggling and laughing about me trying to get her to say it, then when I refuse to give her said object she throws a fit, then eventually relents and says please.

Thanks cyclamen  We have a bunch of books that are kinda the same thing a few objects w/ the word on each page, but maybe cards would be better since there is only one object per card.


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## anjsmama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tibris*
> 
> Okay, sorry let me start over a little bit, when I say handful I would say there are 50 words or so she says regularly, there are a half a dozen or so phrases she uses regularly. She speaks, but when she doesn't know what to say she resorts to gibberish and our methods of trying to teach her the words she is looking for aren't working. That is why I was reluctant to post anything on this cause I figured this was the reaction I'd get! I am not worried, I feel like she is functioning perfectly normal for her. I believe forcing children into a mold is wrong, she can progress at her pace. If I were concerned about where she was I would consult a specialist, but I am not. I am simply looking for alternative ideas in teaching words. I am the one here with my child who witnesses this behavior day in, day out, and feel plenty confident to say she is just stubborn and thinks not saying the word I am asking for is a game especially the way she giggles and laughs at me while I am saying the word repeatedly and she continues to say no. The times she gets frustrated is when it has to do with food or abstract things like please. She starts out giggling and laughing about me trying to get her to say it, then when I refuse to give her said object she throws a fit, then eventually relents and says please.
> 
> Thanks cyclamen  We have a bunch of books that are kinda the same thing a few objects w/ the word on each page, but maybe cards would be better since there is only one object per card.


My DS was a lot like this, and honestly, it seemed like he just didn't want to. And he didn't, until we backed off. I stopped trying to come up with ways to get him to say things, and he just started saying them. That was when I jumped on opportunity.. the biggest part of teaching my DS words has been positive reinforcement when he started saying them. I've never been able to figure out WHAT made him start talking, he just did. He had about 25 words at 2.5 y/o. At that time, we communicated mostly by pointing. And gestures, and him taking me to the things he wanted, etc. And then woke up one day around 31 months talking. I was really surprised to find out just how many names of things he knew (but had never said). But with the talking came a lot of gibberish. Since then, he has expanded his vocabulary only when he seems to want to, and I just affirm that what he's saying is correct. "Uniform?" "Yes! That is Daddy's uniform. Awesome. I didn't know you knew that word." Same with pronunciation improvements... when he switched from calling it a "pen-pen" to "penny"... "A penny? Very good. You say that word just like a grown up!" Just try to find ways to point out the positive aspects her speech brings to your life. If she asks you for an apple, tell her how easy it is for you to get her the things she wants when she tells you with her words. I try not to dwell on it, only acknowledge language when I notice new words and sounds. We visited family last weekend and they were all reporting to me that they can really understand everything my DS says now (he is 3 years, 9 months) which is an incredible improvement from just 6 months ago when mostly DH & I were the ones who knew what he was saying. I too believe that every child just develops differently. DS didn't speak really at all, as of last February. Now the only sounds he doesn't make very well are "f" and "s" which are very common in young children, and the way he talks...














goes on and on and on and on all day.

And side note, I'm not disregarding the value of SLP's, I just think there is a wide variety of normal, especially before a child reaches school age. I felt a SLP could possibly have helped DS' speech but would have heightened his anxiety (and therefore probably wouldn't have helped his speech all that much) and wasn't worth the trade off at such an early age.


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## LynnS6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tibris*
> 
> Okay, sorry let me start over a little bit, when I say handful I would say there are 50 words or so she says regularly, there are a half a dozen or so phrases she uses regularly. She speaks, but when she doesn't know what to say she resorts to gibberish and our methods of trying to teach her the words she is looking for aren't working. That is why I was reluctant to post anything on this cause I figured this was the reaction I'd get! I am not worried, I feel like she is functioning perfectly normal for her. I believe forcing children into a mold is wrong, she can progress at her pace. If I were concerned about where she was I would consult a specialist, but I am not. I am simply looking for alternative ideas in teaching words. I am the one here with my child who witnesses this behavior day in, day out, and feel plenty confident to say she is just stubborn and thinks not saying the word I am asking for is a game especially the way she giggles and laughs at me while I am saying the word repeatedly and she continues to say no. The times she gets frustrated is when it has to do with food or abstract things like please. She starts out giggling and laughing about me trying to get her to say it, then when I refuse to give her said object she throws a fit, then eventually relents and says please.
> 
> Thanks cyclamen  We have a bunch of books that are kinda the same thing a few objects w/ the word on each page, but maybe cards would be better since there is only one object per card.


How is getting therapy to help reduce her frustration "forcing her into a mold"? I'll repeat: Children who can talk will talk. Both giggling and saying 'no' can be signs of avoidance. What the heck does "normal for her" mean? Our son, when he was 5, couldn't pedal a tricycle, couldn't balance, couldn't hold a pencil and refused to walk barefoot anywhere. This was 'normal for him'. It was also impacting his life. He couldn't play with the other kids like he wanted to. He wasn't frustrated so much as he was avoiding social contact. Occupational therapy helped him in ways that I could never imagine. Instead of being afraid to go outdoors in the summer, he enjoyed summer. He went from a child with no friends to a child with a few friends. He's an introvert. He's never going to have more than a couple friends. I'm not forcing him into social interactions, I made it possible for him to engage with the children he wants to. I'm not one to say "oh this isn't normal, better start therapy". But when something that's outside the bounds of typical development starts to induce frustration, it's time for help.

A 3 year old with 50 words and a few phrases is behind. That's about what a typical 18 month old is doing. As she gets older, she's going to want to communicate with other children. They have no patience for a child they can't understand. She's not going to be able to play pretend games with kids at the playground. She's not going to be able to negotiate roles. At 2, this is no big deal. At 3, it starts to become one. If she reaches 4 and she's talking like a 2 year old, how is that going to impact her?

I'm going to bow out now because you clearly don't want this message. But I'm putting it here for others who might read.


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## Bokonon

I'm sorry this isn't what you want to hear, but I completely agree with Lynn. My daughter is the same age as yours and neither she nor any of her friends speak like you are talking about. I would be very concerned if she was that far behind normal. I know that there is a huge range of "normal", but delays often don't just resolve themselves.

Please consider talking to her pediatrician and/or getting a speech evaluation. What's to lose by doing so? I had a speech evaluation for my son when he was 3 because he was behind his peers. By the time the evaluation sessions were completed (over a couple of months), he had a language explosion and was caught up. I was still glad I went through the process. And he was a much better speaker than how you are describing your daughter.

She is frustrated. Pointing instead of using words, speaking gibberish, being unintelligible are things that are making your life and hers more difficult. It sounds like it's time for professional help.


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## Cyllya

I think identifying the source of her problem is the first step.


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## mamandedeux

Just for comparison's sake (and I know we should never compare kids), DS2 went through speech therapy. He had about 50 words and a handful of sentences at 24 months, and that was still considered delayed. At 31 months now, he's talking ... and talking ... and talking. He probably has a vocab of 500+ words (I would guess likely more, but it's hard to keep track), has 5-word complex sentences, can pronounce most sounds, and is pretty intelligible. Guess what? He's still a tad behind his peers mostly because he doesn't always take the time to use words when he needs to communicate and will revert to signing, screaming, pointing.... He can and should talk, but won't always. All his little 2.5 y-o friends talk way more. We've opted to not do speech therapy (also we didn't qualify anymore when he was last assessed and found to not be delayed enough), but I am keeping a close eye on his progress. Progress is key.

Your DD, at 3, is where my DS was at 2, and he was delayed. I'd be concerned, if not worried. Seeking out help will not hurt. If it doesn't help, you can always stop.

As for tips and tricks, I found that ''trying to help'' was having the opposite effect on my DS. The more I tried to get him to communicate, the more frustrated he got (look for my previous posts on this). What worked for us was seeking help to make sure there were no underlying issues (I was concerned about apraxia because he seemed unable to talk, not so much autism but I still inquired about the possibility), and once we knew he was likely ok developmentally, we just kinda sat back and watched him take his sweet time. Again, progress is what you want, even if it comes slowly.

Good luck!


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## tibris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *anjsmama*
> 
> My DS was a lot like this, and honestly, it seemed like he just didn't want to. And he didn't, until we backed off. I stopped trying to come up with ways to get him to say things, and he just started saying them. That was when I jumped on opportunity.. the biggest part of teaching my DS words has been positive reinforcement when he started saying them. I've never been able to figure out WHAT made him start talking, he just did. He had about 25 words at 2.5 y/o. At that time, we communicated mostly by pointing. And gestures, and him taking me to the things he wanted, etc. And then woke up one day around 31 months talking. I was really surprised to find out just how many names of things he knew (but had never said). But with the talking came a lot of gibberish. Since then, he has expanded his vocabulary only when he seems to want to, and I just affirm that what he's saying is correct. "Uniform?" "Yes! That is Daddy's uniform. Awesome. I didn't know you knew that word." Same with pronunciation improvements... when he switched from calling it a "pen-pen" to "penny"... "A penny? Very good. You say that word just like a grown up!" Just try to find ways to point out the positive aspects her speech brings to your life. If she asks you for an apple, tell her how easy it is for you to get her the things she wants when she tells you with her words. I try not to dwell on it, only acknowledge language when I notice new words and sounds. We visited family last weekend and they were all reporting to me that they can really understand everything my DS says now (he is 3 years, 9 months) which is an incredible improvement from just 6 months ago when mostly DH & I were the ones who knew what he was saying. I too believe that every child just develops differently. DS didn't speak really at all, as of last February. Now the only sounds he doesn't make very well are "f" and "s" which are very common in young children, and the way he talks...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goes on and on and on and on all day.
> 
> And side note, I'm not disregarding the value of SLP's, I just think there is a wide variety of normal, especially before a child reaches school age. I felt a SLP could possibly have helped DS' speech but would have heightened his anxiety (and therefore probably wouldn't have helped his speech all that much) and wasn't worth the trade off at such an early age.


Thanks! This is exactly what I'm looking for. Since we moved and my working with her went to the back burner she has been saying more. The singing Jingle Bells thing just started a month ago cause sisters were singing it. I hadn't really put those two things together till you posted this. She's added a bunch of words since we moved and maybe that's exactly why cause I'm not trying so hard. She has picked up all the recent words from her sisters.

MDC used to be a place where people could come looking for alternatives, that was after all the point of MDC for those that are looking outside the mainstream for answers. If my mama instincts were going off that something was wrong, then I would look for a mainstream answer. She just came up to me and asked "milk chocolate please." That's the first time she's ever asked me that, usually she just says milk repeatedly till I get up. She is progressing it's not like she has been at a stand still since a year and a half. She gets along fine with her peers, dispite not talking much. Playdates, gymnastics, etc she is able to get along fine. Mostly because she is a listener and a watcher, she is a quiet kid and I'm fine with that! MIL repeatedly tells me DH didn't give her a spontaneous sentence till he was 4 and he is fine, quiet, but fine. Where we both are getting frustrated is in the food dept. I just wish she would tell me what she wants to eat instead of me playing 20 questions with her. I don't want to put my kid through a bunch of unnecessary interventions. The ped wanted to put DD2 through testing because she wouldn't "perform" for her and there were some things she wanted her to do that I knew she couldn't. She's fine and I knew that then. I can tell you right now DD3 is not going to perform it's not in her personality.

*So for anyone else wanting to suggest testing, thanks, but your post is not necessary. I think anyone who comes across this thread in the future has enough posts on that to work with. For anyone else with anecdotes or suggestions on alternative ways of teaching words your posts are greatly appreciated, thanks!*


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## tibris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamandedeux*
> 
> Just for comparison's sake (and I know we should never compare kids), DS2 went through speech therapy. He had about 50 words and a handful of sentences at 24 months, and that was still considered delayed. At 31 months now, he's talking ... and talking ... and talking. He probably has a vocab of 500+ words (I would guess likely more, but it's hard to keep track), has 5-word complex sentences, can pronounce most sounds, and is pretty intelligible. Guess what? He's still a tad behind his peers mostly because he doesn't always take the time to use words when he needs to communicate and will revert to signing, screaming, pointing.... He can and should talk, but won't always. All his little 2.5 y-o friends talk way more. We've opted to not do speech therapy (also we didn't qualify anymore when he was last assessed and found to not be delayed enough), but I am keeping a close eye on his progress. Progress is key.
> 
> Your DD, at 3, is where my DS was at 2, and he was delayed. I'd be concerned, if not worried. Seeking out help will not hurt. If it doesn't help, you can always stop.
> 
> As for tips and tricks, I found that ''trying to help'' was having the opposite effect on my DS. The more I tried to get him to communicate, the more frustrated he got (look for my previous posts on this). What worked for us was seeking help to make sure there were no underlying issues (I was concerned about apraxia because he seemed unable to talk, not so much autism but I still inquired about the possibility), and once we knew he was likely ok developmentally, we just kinda sat back and watched him take his sweet time. Again, progress is what you want, even if it comes slowly.
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks for the post, this is what I'm interested in hearing, people with personal experiences, not just people chiming in because they can.


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## tibris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> How is getting therapy to help reduce her frustration "forcing her into a mold"? I'll repeat: Children who can talk will talk. Both giggling and saying 'no' can be signs of avoidance. What the heck does "normal for her" mean? Our son, when he was 5, couldn't pedal a tricycle, couldn't balance, couldn't hold a pencil and refused to walk barefoot anywhere. This was 'normal for him'. It was also impacting his life. He couldn't play with the other kids like he wanted to. He wasn't frustrated so much as he was avoiding social contact. Occupational therapy helped him in ways that I could never imagine. Instead of being afraid to go outdoors in the summer, he enjoyed summer. He went from a child with no friends to a child with a few friends. He's an introvert. He's never going to have more than a couple friends. I'm not forcing him into social interactions, I made it possible for him to engage with the children he wants to. I'm not one to say "oh this isn't normal, better start therapy". But when something that's outside the bounds of typical development starts to induce frustration, it's time for help.
> 
> A 3 year old with 50 words and a few phrases is behind. That's about what a typical 18 month old is doing. As she gets older, she's going to want to communicate with other children. They have no patience for a child they can't understand. She's not going to be able to play pretend games with kids at the playground. She's not going to be able to negotiate roles. At 2, this is no big deal. At 3, it starts to become one. If she reaches 4 and she's talking like a 2 year old, how is that going to impact her?
> 
> I'm going to bow out now because you clearly don't want this message. But I'm putting it here for others who might read.


Look, I'm sorry your kid has developemental problems, but that's no reason for you to be rude and yes you are saying "it's not normal, better start therapy." Thank you for bowing out because I think you're answers are better put on a thread that is more reflective of your child's experiences because that is no where near what I am experiencing with mine.


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## cyclamen

edit


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## Emmeline II

Well, for future posters then, I want to say that ds' SLP (he was 7 yo though) wasn't an ordeal







, and it didn't involve being in a hospital gown or needles. I think that people also tend to get hung-up on the word "specialist"; that the issue they are having isn't significant enough for a "specialist" -- but they just have a lot of knowledge about particular area, which can save you time and fustration. Evaluations for children involve a lot of play, the younger the child the more play involved. For us, just about the sweetest lady I ever met came to our house once a week to work on ds' two articulation issues and pragmatics last summer (ds misses her







); ds had previously had an evaluation elsewhere. One thing the SLP did did was to give pictures with words on it and ds would paint (because he didn't want to use crayons







) the pictures as they talked through the words. She also played board games with him to help with social reciprocity and pragmatics.

*You could always use an SLP just as consult service for yourself and not to actually work with your dd.* If you had one who could come to your house around a meal time she may be able to observe the issue you are having without interacting with your dd. However, sometimes children are willing to learn from others what they won't from us







.

On the topic of evaluations and "performing"--I don't think your pediatrician is a good representation of how it might go with an SLP. Peds come with their own "baggage" to a child, are time crunched, and are not speech specialists. We had an OT come to our home to evaluated ds when he was 6yo. Ds wasn't particularly interested in her at first so she just sat with me on the couch and we discussed my concerns about ds while ds and dd (4yo) played with legos on the floor. From time to time she would ask ds a question, or ask him to write something for her; she listened to him talk about legos and starwars, and observed how he interacted with dd and myself. I wondered how much she could really understand that way but her report showed an excellent understanding of ds.

Having been through a few evaluations, I can say that very good evaluators can usually get what they need with what the child is willing to offer and they back off if the child is uncomfortable.


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## tibris

cyclamen - thanks for your response (I got to read it in my email before you changed it).

Emme - thanks, maybe contacting one would be a good idea to get some pointers. One of my sisters used a speech therapist for two of her girls, they had a tongue problem. Surely they would know someone that could give me some pointers.

It's not a label that I am worried about, but an unnecessary label. The ped we went to with DD2 was very adament about how DD2 was behind and something was very wrong, which was absolute crap. DD3 is a very happy, very engaging kid, but what I am worried about is she is not like that with everyone. It has taken her three months to come around to the gymnastics teacher where she would have anything to do with her without me right beside her and she still wants me within sight most of the time. She is very attached to me and doesn't like new adults. She is great with family members and loves all the kids she meets but detests new adults. I am concerned about an over reaching diagnosis. I have two sisters who used to be teachers and tons of experience with young children. They are not concerned because she is spot on in every other way, they agree she talks when she wants to, but mostly she just doesn't want to.


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## fizgig

For the OP some suggestions:

1. Two books have been HUGE for helping me get our DS (now 3.4) talking more. "Play To Talk" and "It Takes Two To Talk" are great resources that have specific details about games and interactive styles. The things they suggest have made a big difference for DS and have encouraged a burst of language. Plus they are fun 

2. Pictures are great. For our DS we have made a series of small notebooks with 4 pictures per page. So, for example, we have a food book and I have taken pictures of the actual foods he eats. So now, when he wants something to eat he can go get the food book and then point to what he wants (though to be fair he basically points to ice cream and only grudgingly points to something on the "lunch" pages when I refuse to give him what he really wants.) I've done this with my iPhone, I just take a photo with the phone then it gets automatically sent to my cloud and i get it on the computer. I use iPhoto and make a 4 per-page image, label then with the right word, print and use a quick laminating sheet to laminate it. Hole punch and pop it into the notebook. We've also got a schedule book with activities (park, pool, doctors, etc) which I use to show him where we are going or for him to pick where he wants to go when that makes sense. We also have a book/video one that allows him to pick what book he wants me to read him. These have helped his vocabulary grow leaps and bounds because I always say the word for what he points to. So he sees the picture, hears the word and sees it written. I think having photos of the real item we see in our daily lives has been so much better than some abstract line drawing of things.

3. Recasting - this is a technique where you basically follow the child's lead to help them expand their expressive language. So for example, if you DD says "car!" while you are playing, you would repeat "car" then say "car go!". Then wait and see what she says next. The general rule is to repeat then add one more word than they say, then give them a chance to respond with something. So when she starts using 2 words you would repeat those 2 words then respond with 3, etc. It can also be used when she is mispronouncing something. Rather than correct her, just recast the word correctly. So if she said "caaaa" for car, then you would just say "car! car go!" so she hears it said properly. Its simple though for me the hard part has always been waiting with an expectant look on my face. I tend to "over" talk and not really wait in silence for a little while giving DS the chance to verbalize something to me.

Regarding the testing issue. I think this sooooo complex. Our son is language delayed and we got very worried when he was about 18 months and still wasn't talking. Between 18 months and now we have been on an emotional roller coaster trying to figure out what is causing his delays. That there are a large number of children who simply talk late is not something any specialist we saw told us. That there are a million reasons for someone to talk late is also not something we were told. Instead, literally every specialist we saw told us DS is autistic we went a little crazy with a special ed preschool, therapies, etc. Of course we were trying to figure out the root cause of his inability to talk. We now know he has a fairly severe language disorder but has no other delays and is not on the spectrum. Looking back I have learned a number of things. 1. Before a child is 3 or 4 it is basically impossible to really know what is going on. There can be clues, but when kids are so neurologically immature there are many things going on and even the world's expert can't really tell you the root cause. 2. Early intervention can make a huge difference for children. BUT for children with moderate/mild delays, parents can in be just as good if not better therapists for their children with the right training and approach. Working with a professional might make things more along more quickly, but children without a true disorder (kids who are really just "delayed") with catch up on their own without intervention from a specialist.

I often wonder if the round after round of evaluations, therapies, and my own incredibly high stress level really were the best thing for DS. Looking back, I suspect that DS would be just as far along if not father if I had calmed down, did some research, learned how to work with his delay, and just spent all the time he was getting evaluated and therapies playing with him instead. There is very good data to support the notion that parents can be just as good if not better therapists for their language delayed children (see Hanen training info for some of this data).

Of course, it can be notoriously difficult to distinguish between a delay and a disorder - though one very good indicator of a simple delay is a parent or close relative who was also a "late talker". So I guess I would personally have my child checked out if they were having expressive delays at 3. In the absence of a receptive language delay and no other developmental problems, I would suspect verbal apraxia. But there is a reason that children aren't even evaluated for developmental delays until 3 or 4 in many parts of the world, and the push for early intervention is a main reason why childhood developmental disorders are being diagnosed at much higher rates. It used to be that children weren't out in the world until 5 or 6 and by then the vast majority of kids with delays (and NOT disorders) had just caught up. If you feel confident that you child is just behind, then letting them grow up a bit before throwing them into the world of therapy and labels is your choice and I'm not willing to judge someone for listening to their gut about their own child. Its not the road I would take, but I trust parents to know their children!


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## tibris

Thanks fiz! Thank you so much for telling me about those books, I'll go get them off Amazon right now! I really like the recasting idea I think that's something she would enjoy, I do something kind of like this, but I think I need to simplify like your example.

Ah! Is there a better place to find "it takes two to talk" ? $30-80 on amazon!


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## anjsmama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fizgig*
> 
> For the OP some suggestions:
> 
> 1. Two books have been HUGE for helping me get our DS (now 3.4) talking more. "Play To Talk" and "It Takes Two To Talk" are great resources that have specific details about games and interactive styles. The things they suggest have made a big difference for DS and have encouraged a burst of language. Plus they are fun
> 
> 2. Pictures are great. For our DS we have made a series of small notebooks with 4 pictures per page. So, for example, we have a food book and I have taken pictures of the actual foods he eats. So now, when he wants something to eat he can go get the food book and then point to what he wants (though to be fair he basically points to ice cream and only grudgingly points to something on the "lunch" pages when I refuse to give him what he really wants.) I've done this with my iPhone, I just take a photo with the phone then it gets automatically sent to my cloud and i get it on the computer. I use iPhoto and make a 4 per-page image, label then with the right word, print and use a quick laminating sheet to laminate it. Hole punch and pop it into the notebook. We've also got a schedule book with activities (park, pool, doctors, etc) which I use to show him where we are going or for him to pick where he wants to go when that makes sense. We also have a book/video one that allows him to pick what book he wants me to read him. These have helped his vocabulary grow leaps and bounds because I always say the word for what he points to. So he sees the picture, hears the word and sees it written. I think having photos of the real item we see in our daily lives has been so much better than some abstract line drawing of things.
> 
> 3. Recasting - this is a technique where you basically follow the child's lead to help them expand their expressive language. So for example, if you DD says "car!" while you are playing, you would repeat "car" then say "car go!". Then wait and see what she says next. The general rule is to repeat then add one more word than they say, then give them a chance to respond with something. So when she starts using 2 words you would repeat those 2 words then respond with 3, etc. It can also be used when she is mispronouncing something. Rather than correct her, just recast the word correctly. So if she said "caaaa" for car, then you would just say "car! car go!" so she hears it said properly. Its simple though for me the hard part has always been waiting with an expectant look on my face. I tend to "over" talk and not really wait in silence for a little while giving DS the chance to verbalize something to me.
> 
> Regarding the testing issue. I think this sooooo complex. Our son is language delayed and we got very worried when he was about 18 months and still wasn't talking. Between 18 months and now we have been on an emotional roller coaster trying to figure out what is causing his delays. That there are a large number of children who simply talk late is not something any specialist we saw told us. That there are a million reasons for someone to talk late is also not something we were told. Instead, literally every specialist we saw told us DS is autistic we went a little crazy with a special ed preschool, therapies, etc. Of course we were trying to figure out the root cause of his inability to talk. We now know he has a fairly severe language disorder but has no other delays and is not on the spectrum. Looking back I have learned a number of things. 1. Before a child is 3 or 4 it is basically impossible to really know what is going on. There can be clues, but when kids are so neurologically immature there are many things going on and even the world's expert can't really tell you the root cause. 2. Early intervention can make a huge difference for children. BUT for children with moderate/mild delays, parents can in be just as good if not better therapists for their children with the right training and approach. Working with a professional might make things more along more quickly, but children without a true disorder (kids who are really just "delayed") with catch up on their own without intervention from a specialist.
> 
> I often wonder if the round after round of evaluations, therapies, and my own incredibly high stress level really were the best thing for DS. Looking back, I suspect that DS would be just as far along if not father if I had calmed down, did some research, learned how to work with his delay, and just spent all the time he was getting evaluated and therapies playing with him instead. There is very good data to support the notion that parents can be just as good if not better therapists for their language delayed children (see Hanen training info for some of this data).
> 
> *Of course, it can be notoriously difficult to distinguish between a delay and a disorder - though one very good indicator of a simple delay is a parent or close relative who was also a "late talker".* So I guess I would personally have my child checked out if they were having expressive delays at 3. In the absence of a receptive language delay and no other developmental problems, I would suspect verbal apraxia. But there is a reason that children aren't even evaluated for developmental delays until 3 or 4 in many parts of the world, and the push for early intervention is a main reason why childhood developmental disorders are being diagnosed at much higher rates. It used to be that children weren't out in the world until 5 or 6 and by then the vast majority of kids with delays (and NOT disorders) had just caught up. If you feel confident that you child is just behind, then letting them grow up a bit before throwing them into the world of therapy and labels is your choice and I'm not willing to judge someone for listening to their gut about their own child. Its not the road I would take, but I trust parents to know their children!


ITA. I forgot to mention, I highly suspected along that DS' delay was truly just a delay because I was the same as a child. My parents have videos of me at 3 y/o coming into a room and speaking complete nonsense, like paragraphs of complete nonsense. They said my language solidified shortly before age 4, and I learned to read around the same time. I am gifted, and graduated school 2 years early. Despite my delay, I had no disorder of any kind. I sort of "knew" DS would just begin talking at some point.


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## Imakcerka

As this is a forum it's perfectly acceptable to discuss openly about what could help and what might be necessary. I don't get your anger towards those that feel there could be something more going on. For the record, our Dr suggested we get our little ones hearing checked as she was not a big speaker either. And guess what? Her hearing was an issue. She also refused to walk and he said it was her doing her own thing on her own time. She didn't walk until she was 18 mos. He wasn't a terrible Dr. He was right on. She's perfectly fine but still has a bit of hearing issues.

By the way May is Better Hearing and Speech month. So whether you like it or not there may be other people out there frustrated and having a hard time trying figure out how to help their kids. Some people will not be able to do it on their own due to circumstances beyond their control and it's nice to know they don't have to do all on their own. Please save your distasteful words for another month.

http://www.asha.org/bhsm/


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## laohaire

I think there are some issues with "labels" but I think dismissing them all is very misguided.

If my parents had been more concerned about avoiding a "label" for me than about figuring out what was going on, they would not have bothered to have my hearing tested.

If my parents had been more concerned about avoiding me being "forced into a mold" than helping me reach my full potential, I would not have hearing aids and would not have had speech therapy.

I was in speech therapy at age 2. Time is a factor. Thanks to my mother's actions, I speak well enough that few people have any idea I am legally deaf in both ears.

Without hearing aids and speech therapy, I think it is more than fair to assume I would have struggled in school (despite a high IQ), had serious limitations in my employability, had significant anxiety in my daily interactions, and been limited in my personal relationships. I don't think that's a fair exchange for the privilege of not being labelled "legally deaf."

Sometimes people are indeed forced into molds, like right brained learners in a left brained world. There are other people who need extra help in order to reach their full potential.

It's almost like you're saying there's something wrong with having a special need. Surely you're not saying that, are you?

I don't know what might be causing your child's speech difficulties, but what you've described is concerning enough to take steps to find out.

You may be afraid of getting the wrong diagnosis. That does happen. Some professionals have agendas. You are fully empowered to listen to the feedback you get and think "no, that's not it," and find someone else - but do it with an open mind. Don't say "no, no, no" out of fear, out of avoiding a "label." Put your priority on getting your child the help she needs rather than on the outcome you desire. I'm sure my mother didn't wish I was hearing impaired, but I'm very glad she accepted it and helped me.


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## Daffodil

You're interested in ways to help teach her to talk better - in other words, you want to learn some of the techniques speech therapists use - but you don't want to consult a speech therapist? If you really just want to let her develop at her own pace, why are you so interested in teaching techniques? If what you really want is to teach her to talk, why not consider consulting someone who has expertise in that area?

ETA: You seem to be worried about what kind of label she might get, but most likely there will be no specific label other than a statement that she's behind the average child her age in speech by such-and-such an amount. You already know she's behind most kids her age, so being officially told that should be no big deal. If the therapist suggests another label like apraxia, as Laohaire says, you're free to decide for yourself whether or not that label makes sense. It's not like they're going to actually stick a physical label on her and make her wear it for life.


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## Drummer's Wife

What, exactly, is the downside of a developmental screening and potentially speech therapy?

We love our SLP, and I am so grateful for having my then 3 yo checked out at Child Find -- he's now 7 and has come so far because of therapy.


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## mountainfeather

My own experience is this: my child's doctor determined DD was behind in speech - I think it was around 18 months. She recommended testing for speech therapy. DD was tested. She got in the free state speech therapy program. A nice lady came over to my house every week to work with DD for one hour. During that time I enjoyed having my child be entertained by someone she liked for a little while while I got chores done. Games were played, play-doh was introduced. My daughter had now tested out of the program because her speech has improved to the point where she is at age level. DD and I were very friendly with the speech therapist and will miss her weekly visit. I also pumped the speech therapist for info on everything from the quality of local schools and playgroups to whether there were local homeschooling families, because she is in a position to have an inside scoop on that. She was a great all around resource.

The point of this story is what is the down side of testing and therapy? Therapy is done in a way that is enjoyable for the child. It is free, or at least I think it is free in most or all states. The child has another interested adult interacting with her, which is great for everyone. And no one forces you to do it. If you don't like the way things are going, you can always leave the program.

I am very confused by your angry rejection of something that might really help and seems unlikely to do harm.


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## Jennifer Z

You sound exactly like me about 7 years ago. My husband also was delayed in speech, but started speaking in sentences around the time he turned 3 years old, my child was snuggly and would drag me everywhere and point to what he wanted, and interacted by giggling or being utterly frustrated when I would try and make him speak, and had the "word count" and sentences that the milestone charts said he should. And, like you, every suggestion that something was wrong was met with defensiveness. (I suspect they are still there someplace back in my history here...I, too, was frustrated that people here were suggesting therapy of all things...isn't this supposed to be the place that was safe from all that mainstream nonsense?) After all, I breastfed, ate organically, cloth diapered, didn't vaccinate, did tons and tons of tummy time and interacting, babywore, co-slept...everything, and, I had a boy, and boys tend to talk later. I swore there was NO WAY there was something "wrong" with him.

I finally took him in for a screening. Those few words and "whole sentences" were, as I discovered, not used the way typical children used language. He had the word count, he technically had sentences (but they were echolalic, not a spontaneous combination of words), and those "babbling in his own language" were often echolalia where he wasn't processing it well enough to get distinct sounding words, just the general sounds, and he was missing a whole lot of things that I was totally blind to until years later when I really understood what was going on. Those people who dared suggest I get him evaluated were right. It was a jolt. HOWEVER, therapies at this age are fun for the kids and extraordinarily valuable to everybody in the family. Really, it was the hardest thing I ever did, but it was also the best thing I ever did and made the biggest impact for good in his life.

So, as a parent who has been there, there is absolutely no harm in getting evaluated, but letting it pass by can be harmful. Love isn't always enough, sometimes you need the knowledge of professionals to help you learn how to teach your child. If you are having to explicitly teach what most kids pick up naturally, you at least need to know what you are dealing with so you can become a better teacher for her.


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## Jennifer Z

And being afraid of labels...I was too. So much, that when I was interviewed about my child for a magazine, that is what they focused on in the article.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-7257


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## mamandedeux

Oh, I also wanted to add that DS DID have a hearing issue as well, even though he hears well. I figured that because he could pick out a cat meowing outside (he'd look at me puzzled and say Meow? - I had a hard time hearing it) and could follow instructions, he was fine, but speech hits a number of frequencies, and he wasn't hearing all of them because of massive fluid in his ears. He failed 2 hearing tests. He got tubes in April, and passed the test 3 weeks later. An experienced audiologist can make the test painless and dare I say, even fun, for little ones.


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## tibris

I do not want to sit down and drill her an hour a day, she's not that type of kid. She is a free spirit and I want to keep her such. What I am looking for is small things I can do throughout normal activities that are different from what I am doing now.

Her last hearing test was between one and two, like I said it's not a hearing problem. Where my frustration is coming from is the fact I tried to be very up front in my question that she has neither motor skill, hearing or any other indicators of a developmental problem, she just doesn't want to talk and instead of getting answers to my questions I am getting a lot of answers that do not pertain to our particular problem. I know that is hard over the internet sometimes, but I have done my best to be as clear as possible and people are looking over that just to post what they want. I do not want someone that potentially has good information for us to over look this thread because it appears to have been well answered already because it hasn't.

WTH we are using the word label because this is the internet! It's easy! diagnosis has more letters in it! I've toted my kids to speciailists, We've been to neuphrologists, we've been to cardiologists, we've been to gastrologists. I was seriously considering getting my oldest to a therapist when she was going through a very angry spurt, but she was growing out of it by the time I found one that I felt was good enough to go to so I decided to wait it out. I am not afraid of getting things done that are necessary! This is one of those times like a couple other mothers have said, I can tell she is just being herself and making a choice and I expect she will start making leaps and bounds over the next year, just like she has made progress over the last few months. What I do not want is someone to diagnose her with some far reaching disorder that they are misinterpretting because she does not like strange adults and she certainly would not like strange adults in our house. Let me make this more clear than before. We just moved we had workers coming and going for weeks she did not want to be anywhere near them. There were a couple of them that we knew from my sister. We visited with them and I tried to get her friendly with them, they were here two days, she didn't want anything to do with them! And one of them has kids the same ages as mine, it's not like they were big scary people that didn't know how to talk to children. She made me hold her the entire time we were near any of them and wouldn't say a word. The gymnastics teacher is friendly and wonderful with kids, used to run her own daycare, it still took months for her to decide she liked her.


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## Jennifer Z

Speech Therapy is not about drilling the kid for an hour a day. It isn't even close to that, or at least it certainly wasn't in our experience. It is about getting processes set up that makes the day go smoother, learning what supports you can put in place to help reduce frustration and learn things.

If you are fine with your kids going to other specialists, why are you resistant to them seeing an SLP and/or OT for services? For our family it was less like medical interventions and more like learning new ways to play with my kids so that they could learn from play, the way all kids learn from play. I still see SLPs and OTs as specialized teachers, who have the knowledge to facilitate learning in kids who learn differently than typical kids do.

Basically, if you started a thread asking us to tell you what a SLP would recommend doing, it might be a better idea to actually get an SLP involved who can get to know you and your child and give far more valuable and targeted advice than a bunch of people with a wide range of experiences. In my own experience, there was certainly some overlap between what helped my son and what helped my daughter (also speech delayed), but what was the most useful for each of them was quite different.

Also, you might consider going to a hearing specialist for an evaluation if you haven't already. I thought my kids were quite obviously fine in that regard, but I was wrong on both counts. My son has completely normal hearing, but after some investigation he was found to have an auditory processing delay. He hears just fine, but his brain doesn't process the sounds correctly. My daughter had normal hearing too, but she had deficits that looked exactly like somebody with intermittent hearing impairment, like you get with allergies. Just because they appear to hear you doesn't mean that the sounds are useful to their brains.


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## laohaire

I was curious to know what your personal experience with labels is? It seems to be a trigger for you, and probably for good reason.


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## tibris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffodil*
> 
> It's not like they're going to actually stick a physical label on her and make her wear it for life.


laohaire - this is what triggered my response to label. I mean - seriously?

Okay, thank you for the responses that were answering my question, they are greatly appreciated. To everyone else who wants to accuse me of disliking people with developmental problems maybe I'm not the sensitive one to the word "labels", think about that. I don't even think I was the first one to use that word in this thread. Thank you for reminding me again why I left MDC in the first place because all you people want to do is argue.


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## mamazee

I have really mixed feelings about this whole conversation. On one hand, I definitely admire you allowing your child to develop at her own pace. I don't like children being put on time tables where they have to be able to do X by Y age. I am in total agreement there.

On the other hand, while neither of my children were late with speech, I know so many parents whose kids have had speech therapy and have been helped by it. But in a lot of those cases, the kids were becoming frustrated and were hitting/biting due to the frustration. But anyway, what I was wanting to get at is that a few of these kids ended up having hearing or developmental problems/labels, but most just went because their speech was behind and never had any other label put on them and had no other problems. It was just late speech.

I don't recall you saying that she was becoming frustrated to the point of hitting/biting. It might be a good idea to take her in to get her speech evaluated if she gets frustrated at some point.

I think speech therapists give families exercises to do with their kids - nothing that takes long but little things like saying "I put the pink pony in my purse" back and forth. I guess you could try having her repeat phrases that work on specific sounds with you and see if that helps.

I do hope you'll try to stay open minded about the idea of speech therapy. It isn't a bad thing, even if you aren't seeing a need now, and it might be a good idea to keep it open as a possibility if working with her doesn't move things along as you'd like.


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## mamandedeux

Quote:


> Thank you for reminding me again why I left MDC in the first place because all you people want to do is argue.


No, we don't.


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## laohaire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tibris*
> 
> laohaire - this is what triggered my response to label. I mean - seriously?
> 
> Okay, thank you for the responses that were answering my question, they are greatly appreciated. To everyone else who wants to accuse me of disliking people with developmental problems maybe I'm not the sensitive one to the word "labels", think about that. I don't even think I was the first one to use that word in this thread. Thank you for reminding me again why I left MDC in the first place because all you people want to do is argue.


Wow. People have, granted, been telling you things you don't want to hear. But that is not rude.

This, on the other hand, is seriously, shockingly rude:

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tibris*
> 
> *Look, I'm sorry your kid has developemental problems*, but that's no reason for you to be rude and yes you are saying "it's not normal, better start therapy."


There is a very good reason why I said it "almost" (and at this point I would change that to "clearly") sounds like you are saying there is something wrong with having special needs. It wasn't an attack, it was based on your words, right there above. You were very, very rude to that poster and frankly you owe her a sincere apology.


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## mamazee

I don't think anyone means to argue. I think some people here have had very different experiences from speech therapy than it sounds like you're expecting, and are trying to let you know how their experiences differ from your expectations. It sounds like an argument is starting though, and I hope it stops or the thread could get closed.


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## laohaire

Also, you didn't answer my question (not that you are required to, obviously, but in case you thought you did answer my question).

I was thinking you must have had some personal, negative experience with labels in your own life. Perhaps that is something to explore.

Your quote from Daffodil is not the personal experience. It was apparently a trigger for you, and I was curious as to why.

There are some very valid issues with labels. It would be helpful perhaps for you to explore the reason for the trigger in more detail, so you can sort out what is a valid issue and what only looks like it but is not. There are situations where a child does not fit into a mold, and I'm on your side that it's detrimental to the child to try. But there are also situations where the child needs (and wants, and would thrive on) help. It would be a tremendous shame to add the latter into the former group.


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## LitMom

I have not read the whole thread. I would check it out with a speech therapist though, just to know what's going on. Even if someone suggests speech therapy, it doesn't mean you have to do it. Or if they seem really interventionist and you don't think you need it, you can look for a second opinion, or ignore it too. They might give you some things you can try regardless.

My younger child's language is still fairly indistinct. People close to him (me, DD, DH, the sitter, relatives, frequently-seen friends) know what he's saying, but some things are just not at all decipherable by other people. Last year, his preschool teachers noted this, said to encourage him to model articulation of words he uses a lot (he said "feet" for "sweet", and it was a reasonably-frequent word, so I worked on emphasizing "sw" versus "f" when saying it, and even showed him how to position his tongue to say "sw". But mostly, his teachers said it would likely progress on it's own, and just to keep an eye on it and discuss again this year. So, we've now "discussed it again." It's still not super clear, some words are better, some are not. We have a referral for a speech therapist, just to see what's up.


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## LitMom

This might be a useful resource, from a SLP turned homeschooling mom: http://www.hiphomeschoolmoms.com/2012/01/speech-language-therapy-the-homeschooler/

Her series on "things to do at home" seems like something you might be able to use, in particular: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Brighton-Park/171983872813430


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## minkin03

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tibris*
> We just moved we had workers coming and going for weeks she did not want to be anywhere near them. There were a couple of them that we knew from my sister. We visited with them and I tried to get her friendly with them, they were here two days, she didn't want anything to do with them! And one of them has kids the same ages as mine, it's not like they were big scary people that didn't know how to talk to children. She made me hold her the entire time we were near any of them and wouldn't say a word. The gymnastics teacher is friendly and wonderful with kids, used to run her own daycare, it still took months for her to decide she liked her.


I can understand this. My 6 yo was EXTREMELY shy up until last year. She wouldn't talk to strangers or look them in the eye when they talked to her. She wouldn't let her preschool teacher touch her (i.e. put a loving arm around her while helping her with something). And when we went to visit family for 2 months she wouldn't let anybody hug her or hold her despite the fact they were family and we saw them everyday. Most wouldn't understand that but I did. B/c outside of these situations she was a very loving and talkative child. She was just extremely shy and particular about who she let in her personal space. Thankfully she has outgrown it and/or come out of her shell and now she will go up to strangers and strike up conversations. I think most medical professionals understand that kids (especially the little ones) can be shy and not going to necessarily speak until they develop a good rapport with them.

I also believe in kids developing at their own pace in the terms of not rushing them to learn something they aren't ready for. Being a late talker isn't necessarily a bad thing. Some kids will go from no talking to opening their mouths one day speaking in full sentences at the age of 4. That said, with the frustration and anger your dd is showing b/c of her difficulties in communicating, in combination with the limited number of words and phrases is cause for concern. What you are looking for are ways to help her that a speech therapist would actually be able to do for you and it would be tailored to your child's specific needs.

And fwiw my older dd was a late talker and had unclear speech. She would pass hearing tests but when she had a tympanogram done she failed and was found to have fluid in her middle ear which was impeding effective hearing and explained why we couldn't understand her gibberish talking.


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## fizgig

OP, I am VERY sympathetic to your issue with labels.

But 2 things I want to say:

1) As the mother of a boy who was mislabeled and HARMED by that mislabel, I totally get it.

Just some back story - as I mentioned DS has a severe language disorder, receptive and expressive. Which means he, unlike your DD, does not understand much of what is said to him. This means that for a long time he didn't respond to his name, often ignored people, seemed off in his own world when not around people he knew, etc. A lot of red flags for autism. He was unofficially labeled as being on the spectrum by every specialist that worked with him and they treated him as such. So he wasn't officially labeled but for all practical purposes was given an ASD diagnosis.

The harm was done by the methods that virtually every therapist and expert we dealt with applied to his treatment. They all used what is called ABA methodology, a behavioral approach developed for children on the spectrum. Because most kids on the spectrum lack the will to communicate and are not motivated by social constraints, ABA uses drilling and a very simple reward/punishment structure. They sit kids at a table and DO force them to drill. This can be very effective and helpful for children on the spectrum but was DISASTROUS for DS. He withdrew emotionally and started tantruming often. These tantrums were seen by the experts as further proof of his inability to "deal with stress or participate in things he does not want to." Bad cycle! That went on for about 3 months and I regret those months with every fiber of my being.

It was when he was about 2.5 that I began to seriously question his diagnosis and got on the waiting list for a development pediatrician. Around that time, the psychologist at the special ed preschool we had DS in called me in to ask about his diagnosis. She also doubted that he was on the spectrum which gave me some confidence in my own observations and I pulled him out of the ABA based school. His tantrums literally stopped the day I told him we weren't going back to school.

We saw the Dr when DS was almost 3 and she was initially confused by his mix of ASD-like behaviors coupled with many things incompatible with an ASD diagnosis. She saw him 4 times in a variety of environments and said by the end that he was 100% not on the spectrum and, instead, has a language disorder (which can easily be mistaken for ASD by those not used to looking for anything else). DH and I completely agree with this as it explains all his behaviors!

My point being that there CAN be down sides to evaluations and early intervention. There is often a rush to label that really can be problematic.

2) That all said, I now know that the kinds of therapy he was getting is NOT what most kids with language issues should receive. In fact, before 3 or 4 years old, all children should be getting what is called play-based, child-led therapy. This kind of therapy (also often called floortime) is literally like playing for the kids. The EI in our area is just kind of caught in the 70s when it comes to using ABA therapy ofr young children. I feel like your impression of therapy in general is very "ABA-ish" and that is not at all what DS gets now.

DS now has a speech therapist come to our house twice a week and she literally just plays with him. But in ways they help him talk more. He LOVES when she comes and looks forward to it. She also spends a lot of time helping me learn and practice techniques that I can use in our every day lives. Because honestly 2 sessions a week aren't what are really going to make a difference for DS. Instead, my ability to work with the speech therapist, reinforcing things and maintaining certain types of interaction are why DS is REALLY improving now. Having the help of our speech therapist has made a big difference for me, helping me to better help my DS.

Like I said, you know your DD and I do not judge any decisions you make about her. But I do hope you make those decisions based on good information and it sounds to me like you maybe have an incorrect impression of what speech therapy has to entail. Like I said above, I definitely understand your fear of wrong labels and bad therapy. It really is important to find the right people to help you and your little one. But, with the right help, things can get much better, very quickly. You could even just hire a speech therapist to help you. She never even really needs to work with your DD (though she would have to see her at least enough to get a sense of what kinds of things might help her). Instead you could tell the therapist from the get go that you want some expert advice how to work with DD yourself. Any good, play-based therapist will be able to help (just make sure up front that they use only play-based approaches). The other option is to look for Hanen training in your area. This is a class that teaches YOU how to be your child's therapist. That class uses the "It Takes Two To Talk" book I suggested (which I haven't found anywhere for less then 65$!! bleh) as its text book and it is really good at helping you come up with techniques that can be tailored to your DD's specific strengths and weaknesses. I took this course and it was paid for entirely by our Early Intervention system (after I got pretty pissed about the way DS was treated but I know many school districts and EI folks will pay for this kind of thing).

No matter what, I definitely understand how frustrating it can be sometimes to not be able to communicate well with your little one. As a total aside, and I'm definitely NOT trying to diagnose your DD since I have clearly never met her and have only very bare bones description of her language, but your description is really text book verbal apraxia. Laughing at language demands and the appearance of just not wanting to talk are actually 2 of the things our dev ped listed when she was trying to determine if DS has this issue (which he might, though it is not clear because of his receptive delays). These are called avoidance strategies. Another red flag for verbal apraxia is the ability to talk well in other modes - like singing. Because singing uses a different part of the brain, many apraxic kids who can't talk very well, can in fact have whole conversations by singing what they want to say. Many parents of children with verbal apraxia believe that their children are just stubborn and "won't talk," especially because they are clearly smart and not delayed in any other way. I'm not saying that is what is up with your DD, but I do want you to know that the things you describe are very suggestive.

But no matter what is going on with your little one, I can't imagine a little therapy with the right person hurting and, who knows, it might help? No matter what choices you make, I support your right to make them without any judgement from me and wish you and your DD the best.


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## ~Boudicca~

I'm going to throw this out there for you to chew on. Your daughter might have stranger anxiety because people other than your immediate family don't know what she is saying. She knows this, so chooses to clam up.

My youngest daughter, now 5, has been in speech therapy for just over a year. At 3 years old, the only people that could understand her were those in our immediate family--I understood her about 80% of the time, dd1 a little more, my husband barely (because he worked 70 hours a week and wasn't around enough to understand "Avery speak", as we called it). She had huge stranger anxiety--she flat out wouldn't respond to or acknowledge people she didn't know, and if someone spoke to her, she would defer to me rather than answer them. She would hold back on speaking to people outside our family that we were around ALL the time--like moms in our homeschool group, or even her grandparents. When she was speaking in a social setting, we always had to translate for her. On the few occasions she would feel comfortable enough to communicate with someone else on her own, she would become so.frustrated.

A conversation with some moms whose kids had sensory issues got me thinking. We took her for hearing tests, and her hearing was fine. So we got her into a speech eval and as it turned out she had an auditory processing disorder (this was confirmed with an OT) and an articulation/phonological disorder. The audiologist, her pediatrician, her sensory OT, and speech pathologist, all believe at some point in her baby/early toddlerhood, when kids are picking up on on speech and learning how to communicate, she was missing something. This may be because we did a ton of side-lying nursing and her ears were blocked with milk. Or because (as we found out later) she under-registers pain and if she did have painfully blocked ears or an ear infection, we didn't know it, and that would have affected her hearing during a crucial developmental time.

She goes to ST twice a week, and loves it. She asks every day if today is a "Lynn Day" (her therapist's same is Lynn). She is not parked in a chair and drilled for an hour each time, it is all play based. Playdoh, board games, hide and seek games, a trampoline, squishy sensory toys, story telling, you name it, they do it, and it is something she looks forward to every week. She has finally opened up to people, and talks all the time, and she was tickled when people could finally understand her. I can tell you right now that as a homeschooling mom I believe most of the time that I can do All The Things to help my child, but this is one area where I appreciated the skill and techniques of a professional.

*Yes, I believe kids should be able to develop at their own pace, and I don't like labels either, but a speech issue is something that needs to be recognized and worked on with a person specially trained in it or the speech patterns and articulation issues they have are even harder to break as they get older. There is a window for this.*

I think you have some preconceived notions of how things work, and the only person that will suffer from your stubborn refusal to recognize the obvious is your kid. Getting pissed off because people on this board are not echoing what you think and want to hear is NOT going to help your child.


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## mountainfeather

I just want to second what Boudicca said. No one is going to drill your child for an hour. That wouldn't work. As I said in my post before, play is what happens. And I watch my daughter's speech therapist give her choices whenever possible. As in, do you want to keep playing with the puzzle, or are we all done? Do you want to play with play-doh? Of course giving the child an opportunity to voice her choices also gives her an opportunity to speak. So if you are very concerned with inhibiting her 'free spirit', you can talk with any speech therapist that comes about the methods they use, but I never saw any spirit hampering going on







. Also, it might enhance your child's free spirit if she also had freedom of verbal expression.

Delays in speech are often just a bump in the road, and there is so much help out there for kids who need a little guidance.


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## Friday13th

I know you're tired of the see a specialist talk but I will say DS1 has an articulation issue. A great vocab, talks constantly but up until very recently most people couldn't understand a lot of what he said. It didn't seem to frustrate him and we tried to encourage proper speech but he either balked or got really silly. We got him evaluated and into speech therapy shortly after he turned 4. He LOVES it, it's pretty much just playing games, coloring and talking with the SLP and he responds much better to what she is saying then he ever did to us. So sometimes a third party can be helpful not for a label or diagnosis but just an outside perspective that kids respond to so I'd be very hesitant to just dismiss it.


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## Imakcerka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tibris*
> 
> I do not want to sit down and drill her an hour a day, she's not that type of kid. She is a free spirit and I want to keep her such. What I am looking for is small things I can do throughout normal activities that are different from what I am doing now.
> 
> Her last hearing test was between one and two, like I said it's not a hearing problem. Where my frustration is coming from is the fact I tried to be very up front in my question that she has neither motor skill, hearing or any other indicators of a developmental problem, she just doesn't want to talk and instead of getting answers to my questions I am getting a lot of answers that do not pertain to our particular problem. I know that is hard over the internet sometimes, but I have done my best to be as clear as possible and people are looking over that just to post what they want. I do not want someone that potentially has good information for us to over look this thread because it appears to have been well answered already because it hasn't.
> 
> WTH we are using the word label because this is the internet! It's easy! diagnosis has more letters in it! I've toted my kids to speciailists, We've been to neuphrologists, we've been to cardiologists, we've been to gastrologists. I was seriously considering getting my oldest to a therapist when she was going through a very angry spurt, but she was growing out of it by the time I found one that I felt was good enough to go to so I decided to wait it out. I am not afraid of getting things done that are necessary! This is one of those times like a couple other mothers have said, *I can tell she is just being herself and making a choice and I expect she will start making leaps and bounds over the next year, just like she has made progress over the last few months. What I do not want is someone to diagnose her with some far reaching disorder that they are misinterpretting because she does not like strange adults and she certainly would not like strange adults in our house*. Let me make this more clear than before. We just moved we had workers coming and going for weeks she did not want to be anywhere near them. There were a couple of them that we knew from my sister. We visited with them and I tried to get her friendly with them, they were here two days, she didn't want anything to do with them! And one of them has kids the same ages as mine, it's not like they were big scary people that didn't know how to talk to children. She made me hold her the entire time we were near any of them and wouldn't say a word. The gymnastics teacher is friendly and wonderful with kids, used to run her own daycare, it still took months for her to decide she liked her.


OP... what do you want? If you think she is just fine and she doesn't need anything what do you want? You've back tracked numerous times and nobody here wants to insult anyone. Well maybe some do. Quite honestly I don't mind doing it everyone once in awhile. You brought an issue to the table and expected only to hear what you wanted to hear. When you said you liked what some people said, their suggestions mirrored that of what would or could be done with a speech therapist.

So again please remember it's Better Speech and Hearing month. But I think it might have some government funding so we should shun it... right?


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## Drummer's Wife

I'm confused, too. Why post on a message board with concerns if you don't want anyone with dissenting opinions from yours to reply? Isn't that part of a discussion (on a parenting forum, at that)? You obviously do have doubts about normal speech development from your OP, and numerous people are saying, hey, when in doubt, why not get a screening done to at least ease your mind? All it can do is help; it's not going to hurt. And speech therapy for kids is generally a FUN thing! They like that attention.


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## Jennifer Z

Even ABA therapy for Autism isn't "sit and drill" for a kid that age (heck, for any age that I have seen) if the SLP is anything other than totally backwards. We had some ABA based therapy, and it was still very play based and fun for my kid. There are still some old-school stagnant people out there, but most SLPs aren't going to that. Now that my son is 10yo there is some desk work, but it is still done in a way that engages him and is completely age appropriate.

It is play based to the point that BOTH of my kids would cry if it wasn't an ST or OT day because they both loved it so much, even the kid that HATED going outside the house wanted to go to those appointments. It doesn't take away their free spirit, it expands it so they can bring other people into their world easier. It helps them blossom so they can be who they want to be instead of frustrated and giving up on what they want because they aren't able to tell you what they want.


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## schmetterling02

I stumbled across this site while looking for information about mulitvitamins for toddlers.

Anyway, as a practicing Speech and Language Therapist, I urge the original poster to get her child evaluated. This is not to say she is disabled / disordered in anyway at all, but by the sounds of it there is a substantial delay. This delay will almost certainly affect later literacy and grammar (at the least). She has already missed a number of sensitive periods regarding her speech and the sooner she catches up, the better and easier her life in kindergarten/ pre primary / year 1 and beyond will be.


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## Mommyof2LOs

I Just want to let you know I am in the same boat. I'm a SAHM and my son's never been in daycare or with a baby sitter. My son will be 3 in July. At age 1 my son could clearly say chicken, diaper, balloon. It was ridiculous. now is in speech therapy and has been for months. It's basically done nothing and has been a complete waste of time. WE are still going. The lady is very nice. He was evaluated several times and was behind by 8 months in speech but was at a 4 yr old's intelligence level. 3 months later he was evaluated again and was behind 3 months (they did nothing but evaluate) So everything that changed, changed because of us. 30 mins for an evaluation could not have helped. After the evaluation 1 and 3 months later evaluation 2 they said he could continue once a month for an hour to see them. She basically has us play with him and bribe him to say words. She blows bubbled for him as a reward when he does. Funny thing is.. for others he will say the word you ask.

He's STUBBORN. He is lazy when it comes to speech but you could ask him to do 5-6 things in a row " this then that then that etc) and he'd do them one by one. He's extremly smart as I am going to say your little one probably is too. When they delay on one usually they jump way ahead in the other.

I dont want to turn you away from speech therapy but Personally.. from experience.. we think it's a huge waste of time, and if we don't see more improvement by the next appt we will be dropping the therapy all together. You can Look up online what they do and impliment it yourself. I dont tihnk them sitting there watching us play and interact with him is the way speech therapy should work? Personally I find it rather annoying.

He's been tested and has NO issues. None at all. Just speech delay.

He is starting pre-school to see if that will help with speech (not for childcare) this Fall. I didn't start him in daycare etc because I tihnk it's a glorified babysitter.

I'd have been concerned if he was Unable to talk period but he says quite a few words and his gibberish is also crazy amounts of "sentences". We do get them and family who stayed here for a few days caught on extremly fast.

Instead of "I see a blue car" My son wants to say " I see a blue car that's driving down the street with 2 people in it". I know it sounds funny but even the therapist agreed. He wants to move to grade 6 before he started grade primary.

It'll come.. I wouldnt be concerned. I'm not.


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## sageowl

Tibris:

I'm dealing with a speech delay too. DS at 28 mos is basically non-verbal, but on rare occasions will say "mama" or "daddy". He produces a number of sounds, babbles a bit, and uses stress and intonation and can imitate the rhythms of speech pretty accurately, but once produces a couple of real words. A "normal" kid this age would be chatting away. DS does not have a cognitive/developmental delay, and his receptive vocabulary and ability to follow verbal instructions is amazing. He will probably be reading long before he's talking. I have quite a bit of experience working with kids with learning disabilities and autism, so I've been working with him using some of the same moves I use on my students.

Things that seem to help: These are the things I've done to encourage speech, vocabulary, literacy/numeracy with my own child and students.

1. pictures! picture cards are great. You can either buy existing ones or make your own. I like to cut out pictures from magazines and ad sheets and make my own. There's also some nice sets on the internet (PECs) that you can download and print. http://www.do2learn.com/ is a good starter set. Put the words on there as well so you can develop sight words. Discrete Trial has some good routines for encouraging speech but you would only have access to that if you had a boatload of money or were working with a speech path.

2. Abstract flashcards (flashcards with numbers and alphabet letters, geometric shapes). Just because they can't talk doesn't mean they can't read.

3. Sign Language/ASL. Some kids go for this, some don't. Mine just recently got interested (around 27 months), so if your child has not been interested in the past, reintroduce the idea every once in awhile. There's a variety of books/videos out there. Some people swear by Signing Time.

4. Picture books. Works great with things like Usborne, DK books, etc (encyclopedic picture books). These are things you can get in the library in the children's section. You can point at the pictures and name all the objects. As a quiz, you can say the name of the object and have your child point at it.

5. Magazines. Some magazine have wonderful pictures that make good conversation prompts.

6. I-Spy: I play I-Spy with my son, and he likes the books (put out by Scholastic)

7. Wrong word games. I've seen speech paths do this with kids, where you use the wrong word deliberately, or do a task with the steps in the wrong order and see if you can get the kid to verbally correct you.

8. Songs / Music. I find most of the songs/videos for toddlers inane beyond belief, and generally can't deal with syrupy music and happy little voices, but there are a few good ones out there. I particularly like They Might Be Giants (ABCs 123s) and KidsTV123.com (on Youtube). Another decent source for this sort of thing is Starfall.

9. Other kids. We live in a real isolated rural area where there are few people, and most of the population is 55+, so there are very few opportunities for us to interact with other children. I notice though when we do go to some community event where there's other children running around and talking, DS undergoes a bit of an explosion of effort in the talking arena. Maybe seeing other kids doing it successfully helps, I dunno.

I'm kind of ambivalent about the whole talking thing, to be honest. I will readily admit I'm an introvert and not much of a talker myself, although I make an effort to talk to DS. I go back and forth between worrying, and not worrying about it. I am taking advantage of Early Intervention, and someone comes to our house once or twice a month, but I haven't seen much of a difference come of that. I think a lot of it has to do with a child's personality (DS is the cautious observer, and isn't much of an initiator), and we have a family history on both sides of late talkers, so I feel fairly confident that no matter what he'll probably turn out fine. And if not, in the scheme of things, there's far worse things that can happen to me as a parent than having a child with speech delays.


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