# aluminum pans....spinoff question from teflon thread



## mistisa (Sep 20, 2002)

i am throwing out my teflon! but i have a question about aluminum cookware.

i make my dds food and freeze the quantites in muffin pans. my mom gave me a bunch of the old style aluminum bakeware since they only sell teflon or some type of coated bakeware nowadays...but it seems like from reading the teflon thread that you shouldn't use aluminum either?

what if you dont heat them, just freeze them? is that still harmful and if so, for those of you who make your food, what do you freeze them in? thanks!


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## Melis (Jan 27, 2005)

Hello








I am also trying to use healthier cooking/storing methods. From what I understand, you should try to avoid all metal and plastic as best you can. I believe cooking with glass or stainless steel is best (hopefully we can get some good clarification on this







I look forward to following this thread and learning from the all of the pros







I hesitate every time I pull out a plastic baggie to store something or make muffins in my aluminum pan (my mom gave me a bunch of old aluminun pans as well) ! Eventually, I'd like to purchase the muffin stone from Pampered Chef. Unfortunately, I just purchased a whole new set of cookware a few years ago...Analon!







I'm sure that's listed on the "no-no's" as well, but I haven't heard any specifics. Going forward, I'm only going to buy Pyrex, Stoneware and Stainless Steel. With my luck, I'll get stainless steel and then that will be not so good! LOL

Melis
PS...Does anyone know if the French White CorningWare is considered safe?


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## mistisa (Sep 20, 2002)

you know i have been sitting here thinking about everything and realized that my george forman is probably coated with something and my rice cooker pan is probably coated w/ something....it's so mind boggling to think of all the things i should get rid of!


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## MamaE (May 1, 2004)

Struggling with same issue... I bought some beautiful huge aluminum cookie sheets at a restaurant supply store a while back. They bake the most evenly browned cookies in the world, and now, I think they've got to go.







I roasted some nuts on them the other day and the whole time I was thinking, great - healthy slow-roasted walnuts covered in aluminum salts - argh!!!

I'm still scouting a source for stainless sheets. If anyone knows one, that would be great! Everything I see in the store is either non-stick or aluminum.


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## mamaliss (Sep 25, 2003)

Me too I have been looking for stainless steel half sheet pans.Do they even make them?


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## janerose (May 9, 2004)

I use silicone bakeware now. Actually 50/50 silicone/pyrex. Silicone is totally nonreactive so it should be ok. I have a muffin pan and also a smaller one that looks like it would be used to make mini-quiches or muffins. I use the smaller one for ice cubes & will use it to freeze dd's food once she starts solids. I believe I've read that Sam's Club sometimes has stainless baking sheets in stock. Oh, and LTD is a good, cheap source for stoneware.


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## MamaE (May 1, 2004)

Hey, just found this online source for stainless everything!

http://healthclassics.com/shopping/d...?Type=Cookware

(Got this from the Nourshing Traditions sources.)


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## mistisa (Sep 20, 2002)

MamaE - thanks for the link! that is great! i am going to order a bunch.

do any of you use the tale top grillers like the george forman? are those a no no also because of the non stick? i really want a panini maker, but they are all coated w/ non stick.


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## willow83 (Jan 2, 2005)

Actually, iron pans is the best thing u could use cause you get trace amounts of iron in your food which is good for u. can be $$$ though


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Actually, the iron you get from your cast iron pans, if in large doses, isn't the greatest thing for you. It's not a bioavailable form and can leave deposits of metallic iron in your organs and tissues. This is especially bad if you have the genetic mutation that makes your body store 'iron' like a camel stores water in the desert...

So, here is my break down of various cooking equipment and what's good and not so good about it.

Note: If you have aluminum 'cookie sheet's and are worried, you can put parchment or wax paper on them, then put your cookies on them to bake. You can line muffing cups with organic paper (HFS sells them) and then you have no worries about them 'touching' or leaching aluminum. Conversly, a more environmental conscious way would be to buy 'silpats' to line them.

If you have teflon coated ones, and you are just using standard baking temps, like 350 deg F, then this technique should be safe. It's temps over 500 deg F that make the teflon put off gasses that are toxic. So NO broilling of meats on teflon sheet pans or baking pizzas at hot temps!

*CAST IRON*
_Good Stuff:_
* Lasts a lifetime and then some, with good care.
* Heavy, even heat distribution. Great for doing pancakes and tortillas.
* Great for frying things, and is naturally non stick, if properly seasoned.
* Safe surface to cook on, if properly seasoned and you don't cook highly acidic foods in it.

_Bad Stuff:_
* Heavy to lift if you have strength issues.
* Have to make sure to reseason if you accidentally scrub it too hard, wash in heavy soap, or use acidic foods in it while cooking.
* Acidic foods (anything with tomato or citrus) will eat through the 'seasoning' and therefore react with the iron, and leach it into food. Can make it taste funny, metallic, and leach high amounts of iron into your body.

*STAINLESS STEEL*
_Good Stuff:_
* _100% non-reactive metal_, no rusting or leaching
* No toxic off gassing
* Lighter in weight for lifting, compared to cast iron
* Lasts a lifetime with proper care
* Can cook even eggs and such, with proper heating techniques and a light oil coating

_Bad Stuff:_
* Some foods can stick, but it can be scrubbed to death, with no damage.

*ENAMEL COATED CAST IRON*
_Good Stuff:_
* All the benefits of Cast iron, but a 'scrubbable' and 100% totally non-reactive surface, regardless of what you cook in it.

_Bad Stuff:_
* If the surface coating (porcelin) is chipped or cracked, you can get 'rust' spots there.
* Heavy to lift
* Heat distribution is affected by the porcelin, so good for long slow cooks, but not quick, heat sensitive 'sauce' making.

*GLASS*
_Good Stuff:_
* 100% non reactive material
* Easy to clean (srub) and lift (usually)

_Bad Stuff:_
* Breakable
* There are no 'glass' frying pans to my knowledge and cooking an egg would royally suck, on glass...(can't take high direct heat and would not be able to 'distribute' it)

*PORCELIN (Ie, Corning ware)*
_Good Stuff:_
* 100% non reactive (it's a form of high tempered glass) - no leaching
* Cook to dinner top ready, pretty to look at
* Fairly easy to clean, stuff can stick if not soaked right away. (Sometimes stains with tomato type sauces)
_
Bad Stuff:_
* It is breakable, but usually more durable than regular glass

*TEFLON COATED ANYTHING*
_Good Stuff:_
* It's non stick

_Bad Stuff:_
* It off gasses toxic fumes if exposed to high temperatures, the PTFE (polytetrafluoro-ethylene) coating breaks down.
* The process to make them, puts highly toxic material into our environment (PFOAs)
* If it gets even a tiny scratch, you should toss it, as it can leach into your foods.

*ALUMINUM (Unclad)*
_Good Stuff:_
* It's super light weight
* The 'air pocket' kind bakes evenly
_
Bad Stuff:_
* It's highly reactive to acidic foods
* I still wouldn't want foods touching an unclad aluminum surface, as it can leach into foods given the right circumstances.
* It bends and warps in the oven making your pans 'wonky'...

*ANODIZED ALUMINUM*
_Good Stuff:_
* Super lightweight
* Super strong material
* The chemical process (acidic dip and electro current) method to convert the aluminum to 'anodized aluminum' makes the metal surface 'super slick' and there fore 'non stick'.

_Bad Stuff:_
* Still not convinced that this 'changing of the aluminum into anodized aluminum, is 100% non-reactive. But if you HAVE TO HAVE a nonstick pan, pay the big bucks for this kind, over the cheaper PTFE 'coated' pans.

*STONEWARE*
_Good Stuff:_
* Can develop a nice 'non stuck' coating like cast iron when used alot (esp with high oil content food)
* 100% non reactive surface
* Can distribute heat evenly like cast iron, but lighter in weight (still kind of heavy)
* It makes the most AMAZING pizza stones!









_Bad Stuff:_
* Can break if dropped from really high or hit with something hard (don't ask)
* Is kinda expensive if you buy it from Pampered Chef (but worth it, IMO)

*SILICON BAKEWARE*
_Good Stuff:_
* Super super light weight
* Technically and chemically speaking 100% non-reactive (if solid silicon)
* Super easy to clean and care for
* High heat resistant (for baking and such, do no put on top of a burner)
* Easy to remove baked foods from it and clean (non stick by nature)

_Bad Stuff:_
* Mmm, still trying to figure out if there are a ny. It might melt or stick to a burner if you accidentally left it on one, and the kid turns it on...
* There is a slight chance they might use something to process the silicon that is environmentally bad. The silicon should be 100% non reactive, but who really knows. If you were eating the silicon, well, that's different...

I hope this helps. If you see anyone else asking this question again, just feel free to copy and or link to this.


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## calebsmama03 (Feb 6, 2004)

Where do you find the good (ie: 100%) silicone bakeware? My mom has some but it was super cheap so I doubt it's 100% silicone. I'm going to switch to stainless for sheets and cake pans but would love muffin and bundt pans that are silicone.


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## guerrillamama (Oct 27, 2003)

Ok, I am going to begin the very slow, very gradual transition. I can see how I should replace every item except my beloved rice cooker. I've never seen a rice cooker in anything but teflon or aluminum.







:


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## teriodonnell (Sep 8, 2004)

You can also use Silpats (silicone mats) to line your old baking sheets. I plan to do this, when we get our next paycheck







.


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## The Hidden Life (Aug 29, 2004)

Xenabyte, thanks so much for that list. Really a big help to me.








LeeAnn


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Hmmm, and I haven't been buying parchment paper because I found out its coated with silicone...is it really safe? For some reason, I thought it fell in the chemically-processed-need-to-avoid-category?

And does anyone know how to tell if the cookie sheets and muffin pans I already have are made of aluminum or something else? (I'm guessing aluminum although they don't say). I was looking around on-line and found something called aluminized steel - sounds bad, anyone know if it is? I'm with ya'll - just when I thought I had all my pans and skillets sorted out, I realized I'm still using questionable cookie sheets and muffin tins!


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *calebsmama03*
Where do you find the good (ie: 100%) silicone bakeware? My mom has some but it was super cheap so I doubt it's 100% silicone. I'm going to switch to stainless for sheets and cake pans but would love muffin and bundt pans that are silicone.


It still might be 100% silicone. Silica (in sand) is (I think) the most abundant substance found on earth). So it really should be cheap, unless you are paying for a fancy brand name, advertising, some executive's summer and winter home...

Name brand stuff (like from Crate and Barrel) will cost more than something you might find at Walmart, but they should perform the same. Though, C&B does have great sales sometimes...

I have stainless steel 'baking sheets', muffin and 'loaf' pans I found at a commercial 'kitchen' store outlet in Denver. It was very reasonable too. You might try googling 'restaurant supply warehouse' or search your local yellowpages.


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *callmemama*
Hmmm, and I haven't been buying parchment paper because I found out its coated with silicone...is it really safe? For some reason, I thought it fell in the chemically-processed-need-to-avoid-category?

And does anyone know how to tell if the cookie sheets and muffin pans I already have are made of aluminum or something else? (I'm guessing aluminum although they don't say). I was looking around on-line and found something called aluminized steel - sounds bad, anyone know if it is? I'm with ya'll - just when I thought I had all my pans and skillets sorted out, I realized I'm still using questionable cookie sheets and muffin tins!

The Parchement paper bought at most grocery stores is coated with a substance called Quilon. The most 'questionable' thing in it is that it contains a form of 'Chrome - a heavy metal'. This is not an issue, unless you 'burn' or incinerate the paper (and most oven baking will not do this - you'd have to start a fire or cook at temps much higher than 500 deg F for a long time). However this could be an environmental issue if you 'burn' your garbage. If it's left to 'decompose' it will break back down and nature will decompose of it accordingly. It could be a 'water quality' issue if the garbage is not handled properly or if the manufacturer is careless with the processing of the actual 'making' of the paper.

There are 'more environmentally conscious' brands of 'Parchment paper' and yes, they are coated with silicon (which they say costs more than the Quilon) and it will not release 'heavy metals' at any given point in time. It is a 'solid' silicon' and will be 'food safe' for contact. I would think the paper and silicon would eventually 'break down' in the soil into 'naturally found' components.

The silicon silpats are the best idea for lining your pans, if you have questionable metals that might leach or off gass with high heats (I have two, and use them occasionally for making really thin cookies or fortune cookies, and so they naturally don't 'stick' to the pans.) The big thing is they are reusable and you are not generating more 'waste' for the landfills. The 'parchement paper' would be a quick, stop gap measure until you could find a more permanent solution. (Lesser of two evils, I guess







)


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *guerrillamama*
Ok, I am going to begin the very slow, very gradual transition. I can see how I should replace every item except my beloved rice cooker. I've never seen a rice cooker in anything but teflon or aluminum.







:


Yea, almost ALL the 'convenience' cookware now days is teflon coated! I had a sales lady look at me 'funny' because I wanted a 100% stainless steel surface 'fry pan' and not one of they coated ones. She just didn't understand why I would not want one...

I just use a stainless steel pot to cook my rice. Really it's not that much more work to cook it. I even found a 'brown rice' that cooks faster, like the 'Uncle Bens' converted white rice. It tastes great and cooks up beautifully in a regular 'pot'.









Oh, if you are having 'it sticks' issues with regular pots, just add in a pat of butter or a few tsp of a favorite oil when it cooks. It will not stick (ok, it will stick if you burn it bad and all the water cooks out, but in general, it comes out really nice!)

Though, I do understand the attachment to your rice cooker, if it's a plug in and 'leave alone' kind of thing and with a child!! Anything to help!


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Heather ... since you seem to be the guru on these sorts of things ... I have a couple of questions if you don't mind ...

First, I use mostly stainless for cooktop and either stoneware or Corning Ware for cooking. But for baking all of my cookie sheets are insulated alumnium (perfect cookies, I gotta say) but I cover them with a Silpat mat. So, I can keep using the aluminum pans and be protected from the leaching b/c I'm using the Silpats? (Thus, allowing me to replace all my other baking pans first to either stainless or silicone.)

Second, I recently received 2 Calphalon Infused Anodized pans (a skillet and fry pan). Are these bad? I'm guessing yes (since who knows what the polymer is), which stinks b/c they were expensive (and they cook really well!). I need to get some new frying pans ... I have nothing (which makes egg making a bit cumbersome). Any recommendations for a good but inexpensive stainless or enamal coated iron fry pan (regular iron and I have a bad history together).

Thanks! (And your list above is GREAT!!!)


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Henry's_Mamma*
Heather ... since you seem to be the guru on these sorts of things ... I have a couple of questions if you don't mind ...

I just went through this about 10 years ago, and so it's a subject 'dear' to my heart. Happy to share my 'research' with you all.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Henry's_Mamma*
First, I use mostly stainless for cooktop and either stoneware or Corning Ware for cooking. But for baking all of my cookie sheets are insulated alumnium (perfect cookies, I gotta say) but I cover them with a Silpat mat. So, I can keep using the aluminum pans and be protected from the leaching b/c I'm using the Silpats? (Thus, allowing me to replace all my other baking pans first to either stainless or silicone.)

Yes, the silpats are a great 'fix' for those with limited budgets. Pans are NOT cheap to replace. Also, you must have been posting this when I was doing the above post to answer that. I have a few silpats and like them for a safe 'super non stick' surface for making super thin cookies and the like!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Henry's_Mamma*
Second, I recently received 2 Calphalon Infused Anodized pans (a skillet and fry pan). Are these bad? I'm guessing yes (since who knows what the polymer is), which stinks b/c they were expensive (and they cook really well!). I need to get some new frying pans ... I have nothing (which makes egg making a bit cumbersome). Any recommendations for a good but inexpensive stainless or enamal coated iron fry pan (regular iron and I have a bad history together).

First, see the edits on the 'list' I made, which briefly describes 'anodized' and teflon type coatings.

So, personal opinion is yes, still bad. Bad because while they have made a more durable, scratch resistant surface (with it being anodized), it is still, _MOST LIKELY_ a 'polymer' (PTFE), it's just infused deeper and /with/ the metal. They are in the 'patenting process' and it would be like trying to pull teeth from a toddler to get any info on what the polymer is made of. But is sounds like it's the classic 'non stick' surfactant, just applied deep deep into the pores of the metal it's bonded to. This might prevent the 'getting in your food issue', but it might still release 'off gass' tiny toxic fumes if heated over a certain temp. I read that the suggested 'temp safety' range is 660 deg F, though some cookware is only rated from 375 to 450 deg F!! I would assume Calphalon is the higher stuff, since it's so $$.

It probabaly cooks like a son of a gun too, since aluminum heats and distributes better and faster than most metals. Definitely better than a 'generic non stick' brand, but I'm not totally convinced on it.

I imagine they have the same PFOA release issues in manufacturing and high heat exposure though..I'll post a little blurb on this in another reply...

Oh, and I found some good basic 'stainless steel' skillets at 'Kohl's Department Store'. You might be able to find one on sale at a kitchen store, but they are going to be more expensive, (for good reason) than most. This is if you can find a store that will even carry a 'non stick' skillet. That's actually the harder part.









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Henry's_Mamma*
Thanks! (And your list above is GREAT!!!)

Thank you, you are quite welcome. Actually I should add, if you can afford it, copper pots and pans clad in stainless steel would be the very very best for most cooking needs, but they are super expensive. Copper is a great heat conductor, but unless you are using an unclad bowl to beat egg whites occasionally (and it's only purpose ), then you should have tin (cheaper choice - for a reason) or stainless steel (best choice) cookware.


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Here is an interesting bit of info on 'non stick' coatings. I put the 'technical/ 'safety' info from a few different sites in quotes so it'd be easier to 'pick apart', the rest is my comments:

Even if you can find a 'high grade' non stick pan, if it has any type of polymer coating, it's probably still an environmental issue, and why buy them and let them continue 'making' them??

The weak link in a nonstick coating is the *PTFE* polymers within the nonstick layers.

Quote:

During the application of nonstick materials [PTFE (polytetrafluoro-ethylene)], a _solvent_ called *PFOA* is released, which is then captured in filters at the plant.
Or as in the case of the article we all saw, that started this discussion, it is leaked into local rivers and water supply...

Quote:

What happens when a PTFE-based nonstick coatings is used on the stove is an entirely different matter.

Since nonstick was introduced in 1954, it has been common knowledge that particles will break down at extreme temperatures -- much higher than those that are used in kitchens -- and may release fumes that may be harmful to the extra-sensitive respiratory systems of certain exotic birds.
Ok, the 'highly sensitive' birds aside, what about sensitive individuals, babies, children, the elderly and everyone else inhaling 'toxins'...and geez, 1954, you'd think they would have done some more testing on it...?????

Quote:

Such temperatures usually exceed 660° F and are never reached under normal cooking conditions.
If these temps were never reached in 'normal' cooking situations, how did they find out the birds killed over???

Quote:

In simple terms, PTFE-based products are completely safe, as long as they are used within the framework for which they are intended. Most nonstick cookware brands are safe in temperatures up to 375° F and a few as high as 450° F.
Ok, erm....I like bake at 400 to 450 ALOT....and direct heat over an 'eye' burner gets way hotter than that....so...thank god I use stainless...


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## guerrillamama (Oct 27, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xenabyte*
Yea, almost ALL the 'convenience' cookware now days is teflon coated! I had a sales lady look at me 'funny' because I wanted a 100% stainless steel surface 'fry pan' and not one of they coated ones. She just didn't understand why I would not want one...

I just use a stainless steel pot to cook my rice. Really it's not that much more work to cook it. I even found a 'brown rice' that cooks faster, like the 'Uncle Bens' converted white rice. It tastes great and cooks up beautifully in a regular 'pot'.









Oh, if you are having 'it sticks' issues with regular pots, just add in a pat of butter or a few tsp of a favorite oil when it cooks. It will not stick (ok, it will stick if you burn it bad and all the water cooks out, but in general, it comes out really nice!)

Though, I do understand the attachment to your rice cooker, if it's a plug in and 'leave alone' kind of thing and with a child!! Anything to help!

Thanks Xena... yeah, it's not just a mom thing, it's an asian thing too or maybe a Korean thing. I don't know how other Asians feel about their rice cookers, but koreans tend to be pretty intense about it. My rice has to be STICKY. In the short periods of my life when I've been w/o a rice cooker I have never been able to make good sticky rice in a pot.









Oh well, I can't afford to replace it now anyway. Maybe by the time I can, there will be more alternatives.

Thanks for the lsit!


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## mistisa (Sep 20, 2002)

guerillamama - i am with ya! i am filipino and i have been slightly depressed thinking about my rice cooker. i have been searching though, but i think all the makers are coated w/ something. i found some brown jasmine rice (never knew they made that) and will try it on the stove tonight.

i am having pains about my george foreman too....its so easy to grill salmon in that thing!!!


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Heather .... just wanted to say thanks for all the info. I'm sad about my Calphalon One pans (my mom was really trying to do a good thing) so I'll just have to replace them when I can. I use my stainless as much as possible (it's really forgiving -- and it can go in the dishwasher!!!).

So, for a good egg pan (we make a lot of scrambled eggs around here), stainless or enameled cast iron (forget about regular cast iron -- I have bad luck and no patience)? It's been a REALLY long time since I made eggs in anything other than a non-stick or my Calphalon One (although I tend to cook eggs on a fairly low temp. so I don't feel so awful about it).

And here's a question ... what did you all do with your old stuff? Toss, recycle (where???), garage sale?


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Henry's_Mamma*
So, for a good egg pan (we make a lot of scrambled eggs around here), stainless or enameled cast iron (forget about regular cast iron -- I have bad luck and no patience)? It's been a REALLY long time since I made eggs in anything other than a non-stick or my Calphalon One (although I tend to cook eggs on a fairly low temp. so I don't feel so awful about it).

I would suggest this







: since you usually cook eggs at a low temp, go ahead and use the calphalon, and use a silicon spatula so there is absolutely NO chance you are scratching the surface.

I would also recommend cooking them on as low a temp as is humanly possible to prevent any chance of 'offgassing'. Too bad she didn't buy the Calphalon with just anodized aluminum...the new 'super pans' have the polymer coating infused







and in that case, the plain 'anodized aluminum' would have been slightly better for the high temp uses. Is there ANY chance it's under warranty still and you can take it to the store for an exchange?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Henry's_Mamma*
And here's a question ... what did you all do with your old stuff? Toss, recycle (where???), garage sale?

I was given some 'hand me down' cast iron stuff when I got married 12 years ago and it's still the most often grabbed for cooking utensil for alot of things I make. So I only needed to buy a few stainless pots and sauce pans.

I've always had a bad feeling about 'non stick' and never bought any (mainly because I saw cheap non-stick skillets at friends houses with scratches all over them. So I saved up and bought one or two new stainless steel ones when I could afford it. (I did ALOT of one skillet cooked meals back then!

I did have some aluminum baking sheets, and I tossed them and got heavy duty 'professional kitchen' stainless steel ones about 6 years ago. The aluminum ones were not 'non stick' but I didn't want food touching the aluminum.

If you knew for sure that there was something bad about cooking on a particular pot, skillet or pan, how would you feel if you gave it away (or sold it in a garage sale) and later learned that person was affected by it? This is what I went through when I had a few items I was given and decided rather than 'passing them down', I'd just put them in the garbage.

It will take forever and a day to 'biodegrade' (but so will stainless steel pots and pans)...but there really isn't any recycling you can do with them (except let someone else cook on them?) If you know another mom that really doesn't care about it, and would be buying some just like them anyway, then perhaps you can work out a deal and give or sale them to her, but letting her know why you are getting rid of them. Then it's /her/ decision to use them or not. Personally I would toss.

You could send it to the company and say, here take this piece of *%$ back and stop using Polymers that are making us sick and destroying the environment!

Re: A Replacement Skillet

You will not be able to find a porcelin clad stainless skillet. So here is how I cook on stainless steel skillets for eggs:

First, I heat the pan on high (dry) for about a minute to heat it up fast. Then I turn it to a bit less than medium heat (5 on my dial). Then I put a pat of ghee, or butter or expeller pressed coconut oil in the skillet. As soon as it starts melting, I crack my egg and put it in the pan. I don't touch it, for about a minute (it is slower, but it doesn't stick as much). Then I gently loosen the edges and it 'slides' as free as if it was on non stick. I flip, cook a bit more and then it just 'slides' out of the pan.

Use the same technique for scrambled or an omelet. Just have your eggs 'beaten' in a cup on the side, ready to go when that grease is melted.


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## Henry's_Mamma (Jan 23, 2004)

Heather ... thanks! I'll be SLOWLY replacing my bake ware over the next few whatever (months, years???). I have tons and tons of non-stick cake pans, loaf pans, bundt pans, etc. that I've accumulated b/c I bake a lot.

I usually line my brownie type pans with foil, but now I'm thinking that that probably isn't such a good idea either since the foil is aluminum??? ... Guess I'll have to try lining them with parchment instead. That would also work in the loaf pans, but I can foresee a problem with the bundt pan :LOL.

Thanks again for all the help. I think I know what I'm going to ask for for my b-day and xmas this year ...


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## tboroson (Nov 19, 2002)

I've found that even cheap aluminum is often coated with something to keep it from reacting. Of course, that brings in to question, what is the coating?? But, if it's just the aluminum that scares you, you can test it to see if it's reactive. Put the aluminum item in a non-reactive pan (plastic, stainless steel, glass) with a teaspoon of salt and hot water. Throw in a piece of tarnished silver. If the tarnish comes off, and it'll happen quickly and very well, it's reactive. If not, well, it's non-reactive. If you want to prove it to yourself, do it with a piece of aluminum foil instead of the pan.


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## wasatchmom (Jan 20, 2004)

i was at costco yesterday and saw their huge silicon bakeware offerings right now. a set with muffin, loaf pans...i can't even remember everything in the set. then they also had a set of silicon oven mitts and basting brushes. unfortunately i can't find these on the website, but i did see them in the warehouse.

i totally sympathize with those having separation anxiety with their rice cookers. dh is filipino and brought few things to our kitchen when we got married. his rice cooker was one of them! sigh... gotta try it in a pan.

thanks for all the info heather!


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## guerrillamama (Oct 27, 2003)

fyi -

smartbargains.com has a silicone mat
silicone
do you guys think is this a good deal?

and stainless sets
stainless 1
stainless 2
way over my budget but might work for some of you


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## wasatchmom (Jan 20, 2004)

two questions:

i thought that if you scoured a stainless steel pot it would start to leach. is that wrong?

what about aluminum encapsulated by stainless steel? that is what my tea kettle is.


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## naturalmother (Jan 22, 2005)

Quote:

* There are no 'glass' frying pans to my knowledge and cooking an egg would royally suck, on glass...(can't take high direct heat and would not be able to 'distribute' it)
I use glass cookware for the stove top. I use corning visions (not available anymore). They ROCK!







And, the eggs I cook in the glass skillet turn out just the way I like them - cooked on the outside and around (no clear egg white) and soft on the inside!

Quote:

First, I heat the pan on high (dry) for about a minute to heat it up fast. Then I turn it to a bit less than medium heat (5 on my dial). Then I put a pat of ghee, or butter or expeller pressed coconut oil in the skillet. As soon as it starts melting, I crack my egg and put it in the pan. I don't touch it, for about a minute (it is slower, but it doesn't stick as much). Then I gently loosen the edges and it 'slides' as free as if it was on non stick. I flip, cook a bit more and then it just 'slides' out of the pan.
I use the same technique. It's perfect!


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wasatchmom*
two questions:

i thought that if you scoured a stainless steel pot it would start to leach. is that wrong?

what about aluminum encapsulated by stainless steel? that is what my tea kettle is.


Mmm, not sure where you heard that stainless steel leaches, it's non reactive (but if you have a link to a site, please share as I'd like to read it. I've never heard of stainless leaching, as it's chemical nature would usually not allow such a thing. Now, if you were to electromagnetically charge acidic water in the pan and try to perform a 'plating' technique maybe.... ). But if you scrub cast iron (and remove the seasoning) it will leach more iron and rust. Same with aluminum pans, they leach more...and any 'coated' pans will leach if scrubbed and the coating (poymer based) layers are scratched.

If stainless steel is the part that touches your food, you are safe. Almost all high end pans have an 'aluminum' core on the bottom, clad by stainless steel to help with heat distribution. Steel clad copper is even higher end, and costs ALOT, but has superior heat distribution and 'control' (fast temp change when taken off heat...great for making certain sauces.)

*Natural Mother*: OHHHH you have one of the glass corningware cook skillets!! Those are RARE! I used to have a glass dutch oven I LOVED as I could do bread batter in it, but it got broke on a move









I'm glad the glass skillet works! It must have a different composition than normal glass. I'd read it was 'inferior' to most metal skillets, but hey, using one is the 'real' proof! Plus, it's 100% non reactive and that's so cool. I wonder why they stopped making them???


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## naturalmother (Jan 22, 2005)

xenabyte - I bought my pots off ebay - they were brand new in a never-been-opened box. My mom used to have the dutch oven pot when I was a kid, and I was always fascinated by it! Unfortunately my dad broke it through carelessness.







:

I think they stopped making them because they weren't that popular. People probably found them a hassle and the fact that they are not non-stick is inconvinient to most. Such a shame. They are beautiful pots to work with once you've gotten over the initial adjustment. I can't imagine using anything else.


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## wasatchmom (Jan 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xenabyte*
Mmm, not sure where you heard that stainless steel leaches, it's non reactive (but if you have a link to a site, please share as I'd like to read it. I've never heard of stainless leaching, as it's chemical nature would usually not allow such a thing. Now, if you were to electromagnetically charge acidic water in the pan and try to perform a 'plating' technique maybe.... ). But if you scrub cast iron (and remove the seasoning) it will leach more iron and rust. Same with aluminum pans, they leach more...and any 'coated' pans will leach if scrubbed and the coating (poymer based) layers are scratched.

okay, here is where i read it. its in Marilu Henner's "Healthy Life Kitchen". Here is what she says:

"So what should you use? Well, unfortunately, not stainless steel; it might also be dangerous. Once it is scoured, tiny chromium and nickel particles, both bery toxic, may be released from the stainless steel and leach into the food."

i'm interested to hear your take on it.


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## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

So here's my first post on the nutrition board!

When DH and I got married, we recieved a wonderful stainless cookware set. I use cast iron for frying eggs, meat, and stovetop casseroles without tomato/acidic foods. But I was "stuck" on my teflon lasagna baking pan for oven dishes. UNTIL - my grandmother gave me her glass pie plates! Now I have FIVE glass baking dishes that are perfect for baking up 4 big chicken breasts. If I have a large oven recipe, I just split it between several pie plates.

My point is this - if you have a Goodwill store, thrift store of any sort, etc., you can find glass pie plates there for a few dollars each. Clean them up and VOILA. Instant cheap cookware! SO much less $$ than buying new at the kitchen store, and you're buying used so you're not contributing to the retail stream.


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## wasatchmom (Jan 20, 2004)

bump.









xenabyte...any comments on that info about scoured stainless steel?


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

We used to have the corning 'visionware' (glass) too - it broke over time, though. I did find things burned way too easily, however.

I'm interested to learn silicon is ok - it always seemed suspicious to me, but maybe I'll give it a try. We've been using cast iron for frying, stainless steel and casserole-style dishes for baking.

I had always heard aluminum was to be avoided bc of links to Alzheimers - does anyone know anything about that?


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wasatchmom*
bump.









xenabyte...any comments on that info about scoured stainless steel?

Hey, sorry, I was doing some more research and trying to find out about this...

I tried to get on the Marilu Henner site, but they want you to pay for using the boards!! (I wonder, do they sell a pot and pan set they recommend?)

From what I can tell from reading up on metallurigal testing that has been done on various alloys that contain nickel, 'stainless steel,' included, while stainless steel does contain nickel in the alloy, it only leaches a very very minute amount of nickel ions if exposed to specific conditions. You can get more nickel from holding a gun or wearing certain jewelry. If you happen to be a 'nickel sensitive' individual then this might be an issue.

High dose exposure to nickel can be carcinogenic, but usually it's individuals working in a plant where they are breathing in nickel 'dust' from metallurgical processing.

It really is 'close' to 100% non reactive (as non reactive as any metal can be) since given the right acidic/base content and any minute electrical currents (like with an acid solution in any metal container) you will get /some/ ions forming and therefore interacting with your foods.

I didn't see anything specificaly about 'scouring' them being a big issue, except that it makes little valleys that food/bacteria could get stuck in and if you don't wash the pan well, then you might risk getting sick from the bacteria. But since you are cooking on the pan, it's usually not an issue.

This one site did mention that older pans are more prone to this type of issue, and with newer pans, not so much. Maybe they have changed the composition of the alloy used in making stainless steel.

Chemists use glass (beakers, test tubes, etc) because it is truely the only 100% non reactive substance no matter how acidic or base the contents are. So that is the 100% absolute sure way that nothing foreign is interacting with your foods, ferments, etc.

Next best, would be porcelin coatings (though some of the cheaper brands do chip horribly and then it's no good for being non reactive)

Next is stainless steel, as it's so close to '100%' still, that it is good for most situations (treated gently, cleaned well, but don't scrub with metal scrubber sponges or washed in dishwasher with harsh soaps that might leave 'scour' marks)

Stoneware and silicon would be next for baking type stuffs...

And then I would say anodized aluminum (as it's changed to lessen the interaction of the aluminun with your foods).

Non stick is so far down my list, as to say I would just plain rather not use it.

Also, from what I read, pure elemental nickel in itself has different properties than an alloy made with nickel and therefore affects the body differently. For example, a pot made with up to 10% nickel will release such a miniscule amount of nickel/alloy into water as to be almost undectable, however a gun made with only 1% nickel, can 'leach' over 25% dectecable levels. (This might be an issue for a sweaty palmed police officer holding a gun alot, but not for most people cooking and eating foods prepared in a stainless steel pot). If you have 'nickel' sensitivities then it might be more of a factor also.

They way stainless steel is processed, the metal forms stronger 'base pairs' and it's harder for water to 'leach' away ions. Also, if you cook with a certain item, say a skillet, you can eventually form a nice 'seasoning' like with cast iron, that will keep the food stuffs away from the base metal and prevent interactions.

I would not steep an acidic fluid for long periods of time (like making tea) in a stainless steel pot (or any metal pot, for that matter). I would use glass or porcelin lined vessels.

So in a nut shell, I am not going to toss my stainless steel. I have a wide variety of pots and pans and baking utensils. I will use the stainless where appropriate (like baking and skillet quick cook use) and my stone and cast iron and glass for other stuff.

I totally agree with the above poster about using glass pie plates. I have my moms and 4 of my own. They are great for all purpose baking and even eating off of, when you have a 'soupy' sauce or topping (ie, smothered burritos).









Here is my caveot, if you know someone with allergies or sensitivities, or even cancer, they might be better served to try to convert to glass, stone, and porcelin lined cooking vessels. Do a heavy metal detox protocol, and maybe it would make a difference. It's like some people can eat peanut butter and it's deathly bad for some. I would not suggest that everyone throw out their stainless steel pots in general.

I hope this helps somewhat. I did a ton of hard core technical spec reading and my eyes are blurry now, but that's what I could gather on it from a few technical and not so technical sites!

/hug


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## Saramomofmany (Sep 3, 2003)

Heather, I just wanted to express my gratitude for you doing all this research and posting it here for us mamas. Wow, that must have taken a lot of time, and I know that I really appreciate it(and it was written that I could even understand it)


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## wasatchmom (Jan 20, 2004)

wow, let me thank you a million times too! i appreciate all your work. you are awesome!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *xenabyte*
I tried to get on the Marilu Henner site, but they want you to pay for using the boards!! (I wonder, do they sell a pot and pan set they recommend?)

this is what the book says: "I recommend that you eventually invest in one of the other more durable and safer options, such as porcelain enamel, cast iron, Corningware, glass, or stoneware. The good news is that glass, cast iron, and porcelain enamel coated cast iron are still considered acceptable." No, Marilu doesn't sell pots or pans that i'm aware of. i can't believe they are charging to use their message boards now!

i am relieved to be reassured by all your research. thanks again.


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## nym (Sep 6, 2003)

I have a huge set of 30 year old cast iron that I use, plus a huge set of stainless steel pots and pans. I also have the coring ware glass pots and skillets (btw there is a huge set of these at my local value village!) I have glass pie pans, and brownie pans, I have stainless steel cookie sheets, cast iron muffin and bread pans...

BUT! I need a angel food pan! Mine is aluminum! So I was thinking silicone..

You mean that blue flexible baking ware? That stuff is safe? Even thought it is blue?

ETA: I have a big cast iron pot (dutch oven?) what do I cook in it?


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nym*
I have a huge set of 30 year old cast iron that I use, plus a huge set of stainless steel pots and pans. I also have the coring ware glass pots and skillets (btw there is a huge set of these at my local value village!) I have glass pie pans, and brownie pans, I have stainless steel cookie sheets, cast iron muffin and bread pans...

BUT! I need a angel food pan! Mine is aluminum! So I was thinking silicone..

You mean that blue flexible baking ware? That stuff is safe? Even thought it is blue?

ETA: I have a big cast iron pot (dutch oven?) what do I cook in it?

Haha :rofl Yea, bright blue colors make me nervous too! Did you know that old 'fiesta ware' plates actually make a geiger counter 'register'....(the orange and red stuff, and the cobalt blue)....mmmm...

My mom used to make a big pot of slow cook, all day beans in her cast iron dutch oven. And Peach cobbler on the campfire.

You are all welcome. I am always looking at new cookware and what's the best for us. I wish I could find some corning ware glass pots (esp the dutch oven and skillet). I still have the lid from mine that broke about 6 years ago


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## nym (Sep 6, 2003)

Okay, so the blue stuff it is, although I have seen it in orange too. Is there any difference?

Beans.. that is a good idea. I do use it for crisps and cobblers, and I have used it for stew. We often use it when we are camping. I know you can't do tomatoe in cast iron though, and that is what I usually make big batches of that would require a big pot.

There is a 12 inch and 6 inch skillet at my local VV, a couple of small pots, and some other stuff.. want me to pick it up for ya?


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## guerrillamama (Oct 27, 2003)

can't do tomato in cast iron? wha?


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Nym/Vanessa,

You have a PM







No difference in silicon dye colors that I'm aware of. Just color preference. I would chose lighter colors and preferably white, though if given a choice....just in case the dye used isn't such a good thing...dang it, now I have another 4-5 hours of research to do on silicon dye used in making silicone baking products :LOL !

Guerrillamama,

The reason you would not want to do any tomatoe products (or other citrus products or anything with a high acid pH) is because it will leach the iron really strongly. It can discolor your final product, alter the color and taste of it (a strong metallic taste) and you will be getting a rather large dose of metallic iron (hard for the body to process).

Now, the usual small amounts of iron you get in your cooking from cast iron, can be assimilated on a greater level as the foods interact with it and can make it more 'bioavailable'...but a large leach of pure iron will not be so assimilatable and might become actually 'slightly toxic' to your system.


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## nym (Sep 6, 2003)

Cool!

I would rather try to find white if I could. I wonder about cooking in something that is bright blue :LOL

But, at least I know that I have that option.

I was really lucky that I was handed down my parents and grandparents cast iron. It has a seasoning on it that is so thick... I have collected a lot of stone and glass and a lot of stainless steel, mostly becuase like you I was scared of seeing the teflon flake off of friends pans.


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Heh, I love my few hand me down cast iron goodies, but my EVIL little sister,







(whom I love dearly) snagged the REALLY nice one my mom had had since she was a young one....

It's ok, mine have a good (OMG) almost 20 year 'season' on them now....(compared to my mom's probably 45 + year seasoning!)

And Thank you...I'll be checking my PM box daily now







haha


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Saramomofmany*
Heather, I just wanted to express my gratitude for you doing all this research and posting it here for us mamas. Wow, that must have taken a lot of time, and I know that I really appreciate it(and it was written that I could even understand it)









Ditto!


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

On to the next stainless steel question! :LOL I found a site, www.cornerkitchenpeddler.com, that carries three brands of stainless steel bakeware. Apparently they are of different quality (?) because there is a wide price range between the most and least expensive. Does more $$ really mean better?

Brand 1: heavy gauge 304 surgical stainless steel
Brand 2: heavy gauge 18-10 stainless steel and also a tri-ply stainless-coated aluminum
Brand 3: medium duty stainless steel (the cheapest by far)

Also, someone else posted a link to healthclassics.com and they don't identify the type of stainless steel at all. Any opinions on this? I obviously don't want to break the bank, but I don't want to have to replace these in a couple of years either, kwim?

ETA: does anyone know how to tell if your old muffin tins, etc. are stainless? TIA!


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## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:

So, personal opinion is yes, still bad. Bad because while they have made a more durable, scratch resistant surface (with it being anodized), it is still, MOST LIKELY a 'polymer' (PTFE), it's just infused deeper and /with/ the metal.
Actually, the plain old Calphalon anodized aluminum (the "original" stuff) has no non-stick coating of any kind. They do sell a non-stick line with the usual coating on it, but I don't think that's what is being referred to here. I've been to the Calphalon plant, and seen the process for myself, so I'll share what I know.

The anodized surface is still an aluminum surface and it is *NOT* non-stick (more about that in a moment). They take the silver aluminum pots (with no handles attached yet) and dip them in some kind of bath which causes the aluminum surface to chemically react. The process causes the surface to harden and darken, somewhat like baking bread creates a harder, darker crust -- the crust is not a special coating, it's still bread. Plain aluminum is quite soft, which makes it prone to scratches and leaching. Anodized aluminum is harder than stainless steel so stainless utensils will not scratch it. It is also much less reactive, but not completely non-reactive. Acidic foods are best avoided, and I wouldn't store foods in them. I own some Calphalon saute pans -- they are among my favorites as far as cooking quality goes. However, I do tomato-based dishes or dishes with those with lemon juice in my stainless pan.

It's a common misconception that Calphalon hard-anodized is non-stick. (Again, they do have a few non-stick lines that *are* non-stick -- not talking about those.) It's not. You still need to use some oil or other fat in the pan to avoid sticking. Non-stick pans (in good condition) require no fat to avoid sticking -- we won't talk about taste or texture!







They are sometimes refered to as "stick resistant" since the hard surface makes them pretty easy to clean after a bit of soaking.

As for non-stick coatings, I wouldn't rush out to replace non-stick baking pans you already own. Like Xenabyte said, it's only at temps over 500 degrees that they are a problem. The polution involved in the manufacture is another matter, but if you already own the pans, that's a moot point. All manufacture creates some polution, so it may be more environmentally responsible to keep what you've got. I believe most non-stick coatings are non-digestable. If you accidentally got a piece in your food, it should pass through you unchanged. (Your internal body temp doesn't reach 500 degrees, and your digestive juices aren't anything worse than your pan would encounter in cooking.) I'm not 100% certain about this last point, so if anyone knows of studies that say differently, please correct me. For cooking pans, if your nonstick pan is silver aluminum underneath, you will want to be very careful of scratches. If it is anodized aluminum underneath (like Analon or Calphalon non-stick), small scratches shoudn't be a problem. You still get some protection from the anodization, and with the tiny surface area exposed, the leaching should be pretty darn close to zero. Most of the better brands (which would be the anodized ones) have long warranties. If the nonstick wears out or starts to peel, you can get a new one.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

bumpity bump

Anyone know if there's an appreciable difference in buying (besides $$ diff!):
304 surgical stainless steel
18/10 stainless steel
18/8 stainless steel
medium gauge stainless steel

And how to tell if the older pans I already own are stainless or aluminum?

TIA!


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## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *callmemama*
Anyone know if there's an appreciable difference in buying (besides $$ diff!):
304 surgical stainless steel
18/10 stainless steel
18/8 stainless steel
medium gauge stainless steel

And how to tell if the older pans I already own are stainless or aluminum?

TIA!

I'm not sure about surgical stainless -- maybe someone else knows about that. 18/10 stainless contains 10% nickel. It is considered higher quality than 18/8 which has 8% nickel. Both are higher quality than "18 chrome" which contains no nickel. You won't usually see the term "18 chrome" on the box, though -- it will just say "stainless" without refering to 18/8 or 18/10. For flatware, you want either 18/10 or 18/8, since they tend to be heavier and will stay nice and shiny and won't corrode or dull as quickly as stainless with no nickel. 18/10 will be a bit more shiny and durable than 18/8, but both are good. I suppose the corrosion issue would be true for cookware as well -- maybe more so, due to the heat factors involved -- but I don't know to what extent.

I pretty sure the gauge refers to the thickness of the metal, so higher gauge would be heavier and more resistant to warping and denting. (Not 100% certain on that though -- someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

Are your old pots shiny or dull? Aluminum has a dull finish that will tend to be stained and perhaps pitted on an old pan. Even new aluminum pans have a "brushed" look -- a matte finish. Stainless steel is more shiny and slick and reflective. Even if it is old and scratched, you should be able to tell that it was once shiny and smooth. If you are still unsure about what you own, visit a store that carries *cheap* cookware and compare an aluminum sauce pan with a stainless one. You should be able to see the difference. (Stores that carry only mid to better quality cookware may not have a plain aluminum pot unless they carry commercial kitchen equipment. The huge soup pots in restaurants are often aluminum.) Good luck!


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## xenabyte (Jul 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *luv my 2 sweeties*
Actually, the plain old Calphalon anodized aluminum (the "original" stuff) has no non-stick coating of any kind. They do sell a non-stick line with the usual coating on it, but I don't think that's what is being referred to here. I've been to the Calphalon plant, and seen the process for myself, so I'll share what I know.

Aye, the pan in question is a new 'hybrid' of a anodized aluminum AND a non stick polymer coated pan that is literally 'infused' and bonded deeply to the pans surface (they are trying to make a non stick pan that doesn't scratch as easily.

There is a link to the info site about the pan earlier in this thread.

Edited to add link:

Ahh, here is the link to the pan in question:

http://www.calphalon.com/calphalon/c...e/iaindex.html

If you look at the picture in the circle blow up, they say it's composed of infused anodized aluminum AND an 'advanced release polymer.'

Also, if you read the PR about anodized aluminum, they say it has 'non stick' properties (though not as good as a true non stick polymer) due to the super smooth surface created during the anodizing process which allows for an easier release of cooked foods. Again, as stated, it's a compromise pan and if you are ok with it being still aluminum, it's maybe a /tiny/ bit better than a true polymer coated pan.


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## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

Ahhh -- my appologies. I wasn't aware of this new product.







I think it's just one more thing to get people to buy, frankly. IMO, you really only need a non-stick pan if you fry eggs a lot. (Even then you don't *need* one, but it sure makes it easier.) I use All Clad Stainless most frequently along with 2 orginal Calphalon saute pans and a few lesser quality stainless pots that I aquired before going to work for Bloomingdales and collecting thousands of dollars worth of cookware for free! (Through contests and such.)







Oh yeah, and I wouldn't trade my 2 Le Crueset caseroles for anything! I wish I had a bigger one, but alas, I cannot afford them. I do have an uncoated iron skillet that I just got this summer. I like it for browning things. I took it camping and made skillet cornbread on the campstove. Yum!









Quote:

Also, if you read the PR about anodized aluminum, they say it has 'non stick' properties
Yeah, I know they do.







I wish they wouldn't -- it totally confuses most people, especially because the surface is dark gray. I can't tell you how many unhappy customers we had who had bought anodized (usually elsewhere) thinking it was a true non-stick. They would throw cold food in the cold pan with little or no oil, then crank the heat up to high and wonder why half the meal stuck to this supposedly "non-stick" pan. I always made it very clear to my customers that it was relatively easy to clean, but *not* non-stick. Then I told them why they only needed one non-stick pan anyway.







Usually they were not convinced.







People are terrified of stuck-on food -- it's amazing. Of course when they learned that non-stick couldn't go in the dishwasher while stainless can, then they _really_ had some thinking to do! :LOL


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## almama (Mar 22, 2003)

Goodness this forum is costing me a fortune









Forgive me if this has been answered already. When you are talking stainless steel, are you talking All Clad pots? Is there any other brand that can compare? Thanks.


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## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:

When you are talking stainless steel, are you talking All Clad pots? Is there any other brand that can compare?
Oh gosh, not necessarily. I would not own a single one if it weren't for my former job! All Clad is top of the line to be sure, but there are other good quality pots that are not as pricy. Get the thickest aluminum core or plate on the bottom that you can afford. A general rule of thumb is the heavier the pot, the better the quality. If the aluminum is only on the bottom, look for the aluminum plate to extend all the way to the outer edge of the pan. Sauce pans are less important than frying and saute pans, so spend more money on the latter if you need to choose. Stock pots are the least important because you usually have soup or pasta in them -- things that don't need super even heat distribution and don't usually stick. One nice thing about All Clad is that it is made in the U.S. (It used to be, anyway -- check the box.)


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammastar2*
I had always heard aluminum was to be avoided bc of links to Alzheimers - does anyone know anything about that?

I have absolutely no supporting evidence for this, it's just something I heard in a psych course. There was a study done on Alzheimer's patients in one city in the US, and one thing they found was that they all had higher aluminum levels in their bodies than the average US citizen. This is where the idea of the aluminum/alzheimer's link came from. Then it was later realized that the city's drinking water had high levels of aluminum, and everyone in the city had high levels of aluminum in their bodies, but the city didn't have a higher-than-usual amount of alzheimers. So the aluminum can't be linked to the alzheimers. Sorry, I hope I explained that clearly. Also, I'm not sure if the aluminum was in the water, or what.

My parents gave me a set of nice aluminum pots from IKEA for Christmas. They are good quality, and the handles don't heat up like a cast iron pot does. The set came with a frying pan, but it was teflon coated







so I left it with my parents. Here is a link. You can buy all of the stuff separately, and in the IKEA 365+ line they have steaming and pasta baskets, a fish poacher, stuff like that.

For finding non-stick coated stainless steel pans, I don't know if that's what people were discussing as being hard to find, but I often see sets advertised of stainless steel with a plain skillet. I have a cheaper set I bought that has a plain skillet. I burn stuff a lot in it, they are pretty thin and it's hard to get the temp so it's hot enough to actually cook the food, but not so hot that it burns the food. My ikea set is much nicer.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Dh worked in metals for about 5 years, so when he gets home, I can ask him about the stainless steel stuff. We discussed it once and the only thing I remember about the conversation is that really cheap s/s is magnetic, and that's not a good thing for cookware.
So, anyone have any info about carbon steel? Is it a s/s cast iron cross or something? I'm looking at this wok: http://www.ashtongreen.com/product.d...&pres=1&fc=AFR


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## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HerthElde*
Dh worked in metals for about 5 years, so when he gets home, I can ask him about the stainless steel stuff. We discussed it once and the only thing I remember about the conversation is that really cheap s/s is magnetic, and that's not a good thing for cookware.
So, anyone have any info about carbon steel? Is it a s/s cast iron cross or something? I'm looking at this wok: http://www.ashtongreen.com/product.d...&pres=1&fc=AFR

If you have an induction stove, your pans *must* be magnetic. Some more expensive pans, like All Clad, do something to the outside stainless (but not the cooking surface) to make them magnetic so that they will work on those stoves. High carbon steel is usually magnetic (thus the wok in the link includes "induction" in the list of stoves it will work with. With the exception of steel woks, I don't think it's very common to find high carbon steel cookware. (I don't know why they make woks with it.







) More commonly, you'll find good quality kitchen knives made of this substance since the high carbon content allows the knife to keep it's edge better. It also promotes rusting, so high carbon knives or woks must be treated with care and never left wet. Most of the more expensive brands of cutlery now use a high carbon stainless so that customers don't have as much trouble with rust.

That's some factual stuff -- I don't know anything about the health implications of carbon steel cookware, however. Anyone else?


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## mamaana (Sep 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *luv my 2 sweeties*
I'm not sure about surgical stainless -- maybe someone else knows about that. 18/10 stainless contains 10% nickel. It is considered higher quality than 18/8 which has 8% nickel. Both are higher quality than "18 chrome" which contains no nickel. You won't usually see the term "18 chrome" on the box, though -- it will just say "stainless" without refering to 18/8 or 18/10. For flatware, you want either 18/10 or 18/8, since they tend to be heavier and will stay nice and shiny and won't corrode or dull as quickly as stainless with no nickel. 18/10 will be a bit more shiny and durable than 18/8, but both are good. I suppose the corrosion issue would be true for cookware as well -- maybe more so, due to the heat factors involved -- but I don't know to what extent.

I pretty sure the gauge refers to the thickness of the metal, so higher gauge would be heavier and more resistant to warping and denting. (Not 100% certain on that though -- someone correct me if I'm wrong.)


Actually the higher the number the thinner the steel. I don't think I've ever seen cookware heavier than 18 gauge.

I've never trusted teflon and I've been very fortunate that Winner's (TJ Maxx in the US) regularly gets french copper cookware with a tin lining so I've been stocking up (very slowly mind you!). I also love my le Creuset stock pot.


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## callmemama (May 7, 2002)

This website has lots of good info about stainless steel!









http://www.ssina.com/faq.htm


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

My mother got rid of her Club Aluminum years ago, she read it was dangerous and was linked to alztimers (sp -- I'm terrible). It's a metal, it leaches into your food, it is bad.

Now on the plus side it is a very good conductor of heat and you will see a lot of stainless steel pans with alumium disk on the bottom for heat conduction.

I got rid of most of my teflon a few years back. Can you believe all of my visions wear glass had a bottom of teflon!!!

As for cookie sheets -- pampered chef bar pan rocks! it does take a bit longer for the first batch of cookies, the stoneware has to heat up.

I'm personally leary of the silicon bakeware, I guess it's still too new for me to have any faith in it being safe.

I think your use of the pan should determine your need to replace it. I have a double boiler that is alumium, it was my grandmother's. I use it to melt chocolate in. The top pan looks slightly pitted inside, but glossy and chocolate never sticks. It does a great job. I use it maybe 2 to 3 times a year and it's for dessert items which I usually make to share with people. So, the quanitity of alumium in my families system is very little. If I made brownies every day in it for the family, I'd replace it ASAP.

I use glass, ceramic, stoneware, cast iron and stainless steel for the most part. I'm working on replacing my 3 teflon coated stainless steel frying pans. I was wondering if one could sand it out safely and then rebuffer the inside to a shine??? They were expensive pans my dh bought me.







I use my cast iron instead if I can get away using the smaller pan.


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## amybw (Jul 12, 2004)

I have been afraid of the silicone bakeware- although i think clean up is TOTALLY COOL! but thanks to you all i will give myself the go ahead ( i do a home party business that carries it so i get a discount!







)

and i LOVE Pampered chef's stoneware! great to know it isnt bad for us!







: I am a home party junky!

















Amy


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## TypicalSituation (Jan 18, 2006)

First of all: THANKS SO MUCH for this great info! Here is my Q. I am gearing up to get new cooking stuff since we are getting income tax returns. I have to buy it all from Wal-mart because that is really all that we have around where we live. I am going to get 2 or 3 copper bottomed stainless steel pots and 2 cast iron skillets. The cast iron says it is pre-seasoned and ready to use. What I want to know is... seasoned with what? Can I use this. The name of the skillets is something lodge. What brands for SS would you recommend from Wal-mart?


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