# Co-sleeping is like giving a baby a gun



## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/4381056/detail.html

"I don't think there's any parent out there that would want their kid playing Russian roulette. To me, that's what that is -- a form of Russian roulette. You don't know if you're going to kill your child or not," said McKown.

GRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!! MORON!!!!


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## CB73 (Apr 16, 2005)

Absurd. Infuriating and just stupid.


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## atomicmama (Aug 21, 2004)

:

IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I slept with my dd, and I now sleep with ds. The only danger in my situation is me being kicked in the gut by ds


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)




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## Cranberry (Mar 18, 2002)

That is the most f***ed up thing I have heard in a LONG time.


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## gethane (Dec 30, 2003)

Quote:

Two to three children die in their parents' beds in York County each year. McKown said it's as dangerous as giving your child a gun.
And how many die in their cribs I wonder? Why are infant deaths in a co-sleeping bed ALWAYS attributed to co-sleeping, but infant deaths in a crib are "just SIDS."

Ignorant, totally ignorant article.


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## pickle it (May 16, 2004)

Wow, it's amazing that the human race is even here, as every baby born since the dawn of time has slept NEXT TO THE TIT. Cavemen did not have cribs. Most people today around the world, do not have cribs. What an idiot.


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## mommy love (Feb 23, 2005)

OMG







:


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## hawaiisunflr (Sep 7, 2004)

Now I'm sure some of those deaths were preventable.....


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## treemom2 (Oct 1, 2003)

What a totally







up article--argh!!!! This makes me sooooo ANGRY!!!!


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## butterflyma (May 14, 2002)

So sad for this family; to lose their baby and then be put on the news as "examples."







These stories make me nauseous.


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## delicious (Jun 16, 2003)

*yuck*


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## Benji'sMom (Sep 14, 2004)

Nice of them to right an article when they haven't even determined manner of death- they're "still investigating," yet they've already made up their minds.


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## kate~mom (Jul 21, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gethane*
And how many die in their cribs I wonder? Why are infant deaths in a co-sleeping bed ALWAYS attributed to co-sleeping, but infant deaths in a crib are "just SIDS..

exactly! and this . . .

Quote:

The health department said it's an ongoing problem. Approximately 10 percent to 15 percent of child deaths in the county each year are related to co-sleeping.
It's the third leading cause of death for kids in the county, after car accidents and guns.
what percentage of these deaths are due to unplanned co-sleeping or cases in which drugs or alcohol were involved?


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## Benji'sMom (Sep 14, 2004)

That's what I'm wondering, too. They talk about these parents in the article, and only say they coslept, and don't discuss any other possible variables.


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## BathrobeGoddess (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

The health department said it's an ongoing problem. Approximately 10 percent to 15 percent of child deaths in the county each year are related to co-sleeping.
It's the third leading cause of death for kids in the county, after car accidents and guns.
This statment really doesn't make any sense to me...are babies getting a hold of guns or are the comparing this to all childhood deaths?

If they are that is apples to oranges!

OT: When I saw the title of this thread, I thought it might be thread about our children inflicting injury on us! (says the mom whos one year old broke her nose last night when he sat up and came smashing down hard on her head, ouch...)


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## mainegirl (Jul 13, 2004)

Geez!

What about every time we...

...put our child in the car?
...cook on the stove while the child is running around?
...don't stop the child from eating dirt/fur/who knows what?
...put the child in the bathtub?

I can think of a zillion things more 'dangerous' than cosleeping. That article makes me ill.

It's OBVIOUSLY much better to put your child in a contraption like that gigantic stroller they show with the article. That thing could NEVER roll away into the road.


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## mainegirl (Jul 13, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BathrobeGoddess*
OT: When I saw the title of this thread, I thought it might be thread about our children inflicting injury on us! (says the mom whos one year old broke her nose last night when he sat up and came smashing down hard on her head, ouch...)

I was just about to say that I fear for MY life rather than the life of my child when we cosleep. We have his little toddler bed pushed up against ours and he starts the night there, but I know that my hours are numbered and it's only a matter of time before I am rudely awoken with a foot to the eye socket.


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## Belleweather (Nov 11, 2004)

2-3 children in his county die per *year*, and he's making a comparison to gun violence which kills hundreds? He musta learnt that 'new math'.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:

Two to three children die in their parents' beds in York County each year. McKown said it's as dangerous as giving your child a gun.








: I *guess* it's comparable to giving your child a gun, if you are simply giving them a gun to wrest a flame thrower that is currently "on" out of their hands









Quote:

The health department said it's an ongoing problem. Approximately 10 percent to 15 percent of child deaths in the county each year are related to co-sleeping.
That makes no logical sense. Co-sleeping deaths (if you can consider them) are a FRACTION of SID deaths, so *perhaps* SIDS could be #3 but that would not be attributable to co-sleeping.


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pickle it*
Wow, it's amazing that the human race is even here, as every baby born since the dawn of time has slept NEXT TO THE TIT.

oh come on, we all know that women are too civilized to breastfeed. why would we want our babies close to us? we're WAY more advanced than all the other cultures that cosleep...









gethane & Tired, we are so on the same page here.









// nak


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Okay, I went ahead and checked on cause of death for children.

Here is a link to causes in 2000 (simply to proove this info is coming out of his ass):

http://www.childdeathreview.org/nati...talitydata.htm

So for infants:

Quote:

1 Congenital malformations, deformations and chromosomal abnormalities
2 Disorders related to short gestation and low birth weight, not elsewhere classified
3 Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
4 Newborn affected by maternal complications of pregnancy
5 Newborn affected by complications of placenta, cord and membranes
6 Respiratory distress of newborn
7 Accidents (unintentional injuries)
8 Bacterial sepsis of newborn
9 Diseases of the circulatory system
10 Intrauterine hypoxia and birth asphyxia
So, for infants (NOT CHILDREN AS STATED) co-sleeping could be considered to be *part* of the third cause of death (but definately not the whole. Co-sleeping deaths are a *fraction* for SIDS death and should be considered "smothering" which did not even make the top 10 you'll notice).

For children 1-4:


> 1 Accidents (unintentional injuries)
> 2 Congenital malformations, deformations and chromosomal abnormalities
> 3 Malignant neoplasms
> 4 Assault (homicide)
> ...


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## yamilee21 (Nov 1, 2004)

I think we will be seeing a lot more of these anti-co-sleeping news reports in the coming months. Just last week, I was reading about a new "Child Safety" campaign in New York City designed to stop co-sleeping. Supposedly, 65 children's deaths in NYC from 2000-2003 were attributed to co-sleeping with adults. Of course, there was no mention of how many of those deaths were due to drug and alcohol abuse and the overcrowded housing situation that results in unplanned co-sleeping.

I think the crib/cradle/bassinet manufacturers and retailers in the United States must be behind these reports, because co-sleeping deaths do not seem to be an increasing problem in the rest of the world.


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## 3for3hb (Jan 13, 2005)

Wow. When I read the title to this post I really thought that the person posting was against co-sleeping. But now that I realize that we are all on the same page....




















































































uke uke uke uke

yeah


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## MamaPear (Oct 10, 2004)

So, when are we going to hear about every SIDS death that happens in this country so that parents can be told how unsafe it is to put their small babies ALONE in a bed in a dark room??? Morons!


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## polka123 (Nov 27, 2003)

oh ple-eese








what a comparison


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaPear*
So, when are we going to hear about every SIDS death that happens in this country so that parents can be told how unsafe it is to put their small babies ALONE in a bed in a dark room??? Morons!


No, no, no you just don't get it! It's going to *sleep* that is the problem. You should just shake your child for the first six months so they can't sleep--- that way they will be "healthy" and "safe"


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## Alstrameria (Sep 8, 2002)




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## Alstrameria (Sep 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *yamilee21*
I think the crib/cradle/bassinet manufacturers and retailers in the United States must be behind these reports, because co-sleeping deaths do not seem to be an increasing problem in the rest of the world.

I so totally agree.


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## desertpenguin (Apr 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2*
No, no, no you just don't get it! It's going to *sleep* that is the problem. You should just shake your child for the first six months so they can't sleep--- that way they will be "healthy" and "safe"


LMFBO! Maybe I'll try that :LOL


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I understand that crib manufacturers are afraid that more co-sleeping will mean fewer crib sales. What I don't "get" is why more crib manufacturers aren't trying to cash in on co-sleeping.

Think about it:

They could design queen and king-sized cribs that meet all safety requirements for cribs, perhaps with sides that are easy to remove when the child gets older.

They could design standard cribs that are designed to be converted into co-sleepers when attached to their brand of full, queen, or king sized bed frame. Forget selling a crib and changing table to expectant parents- sell them an entire bedroom set instead!! Then, in a few years, when the baby outgrows the co-sleeper, buy the child an entire new set of furniture while the parents keep the "cosleeping set."

How about co-ordinating queen and crib sized bedding that also co-ordinates with the curtains, wallpaper, master bathroom, etc?


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## Schrody (Mar 11, 2003)

Can anyone explain this part of the article to me?

_Kristena Schwartz has a three-month-old of her own and a frightening experience kept her from sleeping with her children.

"I remember, I fell asleep one time with her in bed with me and it just frightened me_

Perhaps I'm dense, but I fail to see what the terrifying part of the above story is. Baby fell asleep, mom fell asleep, later they both woke up. Ooh, scary!


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## Plummeting (Dec 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Schrody*
Can anyone explain this part of the article to me?

_Kristena Schwartz has a three-month-old of her own and a frightening experience kept her from sleeping with her children.

"I remember, I fell asleep one time with her in bed with me and it just frightened me_

Perhaps I'm dense, but I fail to see what the terrifying part of the above story is. Baby fell asleep, mom fell asleep, later they both woke up. Ooh, scary!

I was thinking the exact same thing! The only reason they used this woman was because they couldn't actually find anyone who had a co-sleeping story that actually *was* scary. Geez!


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## AmyAngel (Dec 3, 2004)

That is absolutely the stupidest thing I've ever read in my life. It happened in South Carolina, but the tv station reporting on it is from Charlotte, NC. I'm from Charlotte, and would like to apologize for their stupidity. We're not ALL that stupid! (Although sometimes I seriously wonder about most people.)

Since that was during the week, I guess there wasn't a Nascar race for them to dedicate all their airtime to. I have actually seen the news here do an on-site report about a hotel having a rental tent put up on their lawn like people get for weddings. I guess it's good that the crime rate was slow enough that day that that was the biggest story they could come up with!

I bet I know EXACTLY how the teaser for that story went, too. You'd be watching tv, and in every commercial break the anchor would come on saying in an ominous voice "A looming threat that can KILL your child. We'll tell you how to prevent it... ...more at 11." I hate the local news. Based on past personal experience with the tv news and newspaper staff here, I think they refuse to hire anyone who knows how to think for themselves.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Quote:

Baby fell asleep, mom fell asleep, later they both woke up. Ooh, scary!

:LOL


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## JBug (Sep 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Schrody*
Can anyone explain this part of the article to me?

_Kristena Schwartz has a three-month-old of her own and a frightening experience kept her from sleeping with her children.

"I remember, I fell asleep one time with her in bed with me and it just frightened me_

Perhaps I'm dense, but I fail to see what the terrifying part of the above story is. Baby fell asleep, mom fell asleep, later they both woke up. Ooh, scary!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I was wondering if I was going to be the first to bring that one up...

You took the words right out of my mouth.


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## annapapp (Mar 17, 2005)

probaly the writer of this article has no kids.
my oppinion don't write stupid article when you have no experience
idiots


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## KnitterMama (Mar 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gethane*
And how many die in their cribs I wonder? Why are infant deaths in a co-sleeping bed ALWAYS attributed to co-sleeping, but infant deaths in a crib are "just SIDS."

Ignorant, totally ignorant article.









:

Why are people threatened by our closeness???


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## Mrs_Hos (May 3, 2004)

Ok....I guess now is a good time to admit that I am predjudgist (did I spell that right?)...
Not against black people
Not against white people
Not against brown people
Not against yellow people

But against STUPID people...as I get older it is getting worse...
Some people are so ignorant that it is frustrating and I want to shake them...
shaken idiot syndrome...hmmm...


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## mandalamama (Sep 1, 2004)

i used to live in York County, believe me if there are co-sleeping deaths they are most likely due to the parents being sedated by drugs or alcohol, which i notice the journalist didn't bother to investigate.







:

my ex used to work for the station that was linked, they are known for sensationalizing any story with kids in it. one time they ran a teaser saying only "fatal school bus crash, more details at noon" ... they ran this at 10am!! every school's phone lines were jammed with terrified parents.


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## SugarAndSun (Feb 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
I understand that crib manufacturers are afraid that more co-sleeping will mean fewer crib sales. What I don't "get" is why more crib manufacturers aren't trying to cash in on co-sleeping.

Think about it:

They could design queen and king-sized cribs that meet all safety requirements for cribs, perhaps with sides that are easy to remove when the child gets older.

They could design standard cribs that are designed to be converted into co-sleepers when attached to their brand of full, queen, or king sized bed frame. Forget selling a crib and changing table to expectant parents- sell them an entire bedroom set instead!! Then, in a few years, when the baby outgrows the co-sleeper, buy the child an entire new set of furniture while the parents keep the "cosleeping set."

How about co-ordinating queen and crib sized bedding that also co-ordinates with the curtains, wallpaper, master bathroom, etc?

Nice!









They could make a co-sleeper that is actually even with the bed so I could lay in it, nurse, then go back to my own spot. I can't believe the Arm's Reach is the best they can come up with!







:


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mrs_Hos*
Ok....I guess now is a good time to admit that I am predjudgist (did I spell that right?)...
Not against black people
Not against white people
Not against brown people
Not against yellow people

But against STUPID people...as I get older it is getting worse...
Some people are so ignorant that it is frustrating and I want to shake them...
shaken idiot syndrome...hmmm...


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## lifetapestry (Apr 14, 2003)

I agree that article is so over the top. And I also agree that I wish that they would be more specific about what they are calling "co-sleeping." I wouldn't call a parent who fell asleep with their infant on the couch in front of the TV "co-sleeping." My memory for some of the safety studies tells me (I could be totally wrong here) that many "co-sleeping" deaths happened on couches or on unsafe mattresses.

For some reason, that article reminded me of someone I knew a few years ago, whose infant was killed when a framed family photograph fell off the wall and struck her on the head. One of those freak accidents-- it was hung properly with the right kind of picture wire and picture hanger, it just happened. Would it make sense to call family photos on the wall "guns" waiting to kill our children?

And would any sensible person advocate that all parents refrain from hanging pictures on their walls?

The fact is, co-sleeping can be dangerous, if you do it unsafely (we all know the rules, I won't repeat them). I'm sure that there are times when infants may die, even if done safely. But that's true for everything, including the pictures on the walls, carseats, etc. Including crib deaths, of course. I cannot remember whether this is an actual story or a scene from a novel, but it involved a 2 year old who slept in a crib and died because his head slipped between the mattress and the bars somehow-- and then the father chopped up the crib in his backyard in grief. Babies die in cribs because of cribs, too.

We started out as unintentional co-sleepers, and I still recall how rested I felt when my son was an infant. As he's gotten older, I have seconded my DH's occasional statements that we should move him to his own bed (which he sleeps in occasionally), but we both secretly believe that he is safer co-sleeping and happier co-sleeping. When I referred to "mom and dad's room" several weeks ago, he corrected me and said, "it's Noah's room too." I had to agree.

Karla


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla*
They could design queen and king-sized cribs that meet all safety requirements for cribs, perhaps with sides that are easy to remove when the child gets older.

They could design standard cribs that are designed to be converted into co-sleepers when attached to their brand of full, queen, or king sized bed frame. Forget selling a crib and changing table to expectant parents- sell them an entire bedroom set instead!! Then, in a few years, when the baby outgrows the co-sleeper, buy the child an entire new set of furniture while the parents keep the "cosleeping set."

How about co-ordinating queen and crib sized bedding that also co-ordinates with the curtains, wallpaper, master bathroom, etc?


That's actually quite brilliant. As long as they have a quick-escape hatch for mothers stuck in between sleeping baby and husband for late night bathroom trips, I would actually be quite happy to purchase this product!


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

WTF?

Quote:

It's the third leading cause of death for kids in the county, after car accidents and guns.
Wow, I think I'm going to write and publish an article entitled: "The Sky is Green and Grass is Blue simply b/c I say so & Someone Else agrees with Me!"


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## mmmummy (Mar 12, 2005)

oh my!! thats where i live-york county..didnt expect that when i clicked on it. i'll have to read it..itll probably make me want to scream. i did have a family member mention the other day how many babies have died this year by cosleeping here and blah blah..i think it was on the news. anyway,off to anger myself with that article..














:

edit: yup..made me angry..
"ohh i was soo scared to fall asleep by my baby.."
"everyone knows you dont do a dumb thing like that!!"
and the kicker,that its like giving a baby a gun to play with.

i seriously believe if you WANT to sleep with your baby,and are very aware he/she is there and arent drunk or drugged up,you wont roll over on your baby. you just know theyre there,whether youre asleep or not. my husband and i have the worlds smallest bed and we have our baby between us,and we dont roll like that..(our son sleeps on a little fold out bed by ours,and our bed is resting on the floor with no frame) id go on a rant about it,but im too tired for a rant right now.

that whole report is like one huge scare tactic..its so obvious thats what its meant to do..
and now theyre going to be trying to "educate" parents about it..sigh....


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

I told my sisiter abut this article and she reminded me that when she had her son 13 years ago she asked her doctor about the baby sleeping in bed with her. The doctor told her he NEVER heard of a mother rolling over and smothering her baby. He did say to watch out for dad when the baby was tiny, though. He said, "Mothers just don't do that"


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## mama2zoe (Dec 2, 2004)

I almost fell off my chair when I read the title to this thread. What a poorly researched article. It didn't even attempt to back up the claims it was making.


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## oneotamama (Apr 23, 2004)

STUPID







(article I mean, not the post! :LOL )


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