# IS Breastfeeding "Easier" than FF?



## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

*I want to start this by saying that I am NOT trying to advocate formula feeding. I strongly believe that breast milk is the best for a child.*

I hear mom's IRL and on MDC say that Breastfeeding is SOOO much easier than formula feeding.

I have also read this in a lot of breastfeeding literature.

I found it to be completely untrue, and I am wondering *What* makes people feel that breast feeding is "Easier"?

I had to switch to formula when DS was 5 months old. Long story, and the reasons why are beside the point.

Formula feeding was sooo much easier. It took about 10 percent of the time that breast feeding did and was much more convenient. We used a fresh goats milk formula that we made at home. When we would go out we would bring a really small cooler bag for the bottle, and a thermos of hot water to heat it up with. Yes, that part (bringing more stuff) is harder than breast feeding. But it was so much easier to heat a bottle and be done feeding him in five minutes versus the amount of time (at least 30 minutes) it would have taken to breastfeed him. And I didn't have to worry about nursing bras or breast pads or leaking breasts. I could also ask DP to give him the bottle which is not an option if you are bfing.

Middle of the night feedings were the same thing....keep a little cooler bag right next to the bed with pre made bottles and a thermos of hot water to heat it. I took 2 minutes from the time Owen woke to the time he had his bottle, and I didn't even have to get out of bed. He would be done and ready to go back to sleep within 5 minutes.

With Formula, anyone can help out. It doesn't have to be you who feeds the baby every time. You can actually get a few hours of sleep or go out somewhere without the baby for a while if you need to without having to pump (which was a disaster for us







)

I just think it is silly not to acknowledge that there are MANY things about formula feeding that make it much easier for the mom.

That is why a lot of people switch to formula...because they are overwhelmed and it is sooo much easier than breastfeeding.

I have a good friend who has been breastfeeding for the last 2.5 yrs. She has 2 Bio kids that have been Bf'd exclusively, ages 2 yo and 10 mo.
She and I have argued (nicely) about this exact thing for about a year now. She insisted that she couldn't understand why anyone would think formula was easier.
Well, she just adopted an infant, and she is doing Goat milk formula for the first time and she can't BELIEVE how much easier it is. She had just thought that FF would be harder because all the pro breastfeeding literature says that it is.
She and I were talking about this and I thought it would be interesting to get some other opinions.

I would especially like to hear if there are ppl who have done both and found breastfeeding to be much easier over all.

*Again, this is not meant to imply in any way that formula is better, or that people should switch to formula w.out a medical reason!!

I just think that if we are going to try to convince someone to bf instead of ff then we should be honest.
Breastfeeding is a huge sacrifice and commitment. It is worth it 150%, and is wonderful for Mom and Baby.
It is the healthiest thing for a baby to eat.
It is really hard work.*


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

um...with my four kids, only one would have been easier with formula...and that's ONLY because i had to pump to feed her.

all that bottle-cleaning...all that heating...all that mixing...

when my little ones would wake in the middle of the night, i'd roll over and give them a breast. getting up to fix and warm a bottle would drive me NUTS! i HATED that!

my kids were pretty efficient, they didn't take any longer to nurse than they did to bottle-feed...i'd wonder if the flow was too fast if they had. twenty minutes, tops, with no getting up...no cleaning...no fixing...did i mention no cleaning?

no bottles to buy...or find in the couch...no big diaper bags, just a couple tossed in my bag...


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

I've done both, with the same child. Now, I was never able to exclusively BF, so take this w/ a grain of salt.

I found BF much easier. When I finally got DS to nurse, it was mostly at night. He had an oral aversion and didn't fight BFing while asleep. I could just turn over and get 7 hrs of sleep!

FF required me to heat the bottle, sterilize equipment(including my pump) several times a day. PITA. Buy the formula, mix the formula. DS never ate consistent amounts, so I was either throwing the formula out or trying to heat/ make more with a screaming baby. Time really was of the essence.

Now, I didn't have much support and I was pumping what I could for DS. Maybe I got an ounce a day? BFing saved my sanity. It was certainly difficult to do (for us) but worthwhile.


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## KellMcK (Jun 29, 2007)

Speaking as a mom who was able to breastfeed for a while but switched to formula (not going to go into my story here - that's not the point) - I feel that breastfeeding would have been much more convenient:
- can feed wherever, whenever, don't need to wonder if you packed all your feeding supplies in the diaper bag
- you don't have to worry about when you're going to run out, or where to buy on sale, who's got it on sale, and do I have a coupon somewhere?
- there are nipples to wash but it's no big deal since you're in the shower anyway








- no having to make bottles!

I really think that breastfeeding is way more convenient than formula feeding.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

I have bf three children. One of which had to go on formula at 2months. Yes, bf is easier. Of course, it's very subjective and it depends. Some people have difficulties, like I did with ds. If I would have had support, I would like to think that I wouldn't have had such a tough time.

But even with my problems, it is still 100% easier.

I did not find one single thing while bottlefeeding that made it easier or better. Period. Formula feeding was a huge PIA in every regard.


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## goodearthmama (Nov 7, 2006)

I don't see how preparing anything and then washing it afterwards, etc. is easier than Simply putting a hungry baby to your breast instantly satifying him. I mean really, i can't see how that could even be considered not the simplest thing ever!

Also, I think I can stand the "sacrifice" of the extra 30 minutes it takes to feed and nourish my child with my milk that is made for him and sustains him and give him the BEST possible start in life.

In regards to night time, my LO is right beside me in bed and as soon as he stirs= Boom! Breast in mouth and we are both back to sleep in a few minutes. No Big Deal!

I don't need anything when I go anywhere besides a few dipes. Wow, I really just can't believe that anyone would think that ff could possibly be easier.
I mean, unless you have medical problems that prevent bf, I think maybe saying it is easier might justify for making excuses. Sorry, but that is my opinion.


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## txbikegrrl (Jul 20, 2006)

I haven't had to formula feed (yet -- may have to at some point) but it sounds like what makes bf easier for some does not apply to/for others...

For example, I have to wash pump parts so washing bottles versus pump parts is no different. And we have to use bottles during the day since I work outside the house and DS is at a center so we're still cleaning nipples.

Also, since we can't seem to get the hang of nursing in public, I feel pretty limited in what I can do when, etc. Also, I don't want to miss a feeding because it was such an ordeal to build my supply. And I can only pump once while at work all day so I'm constantly worried about losing my supply. I'm starting to feel pretty "tied down" now after only 4 months.

Anyway, just wanted to say that I'm plugging along because I know ebf is a gift I'm giving my DS, one my mom couldn't give to me, and I'll keep doing it as long as I can but I really think in some circumstances it can actually be MUCH more work -- with fewer "benefits" for the parents.

Also, DS refuses to sleep nurse (we can't co-sleep for med reasons so I tried bringing him to our bed then putting him back in his bassinet that's next to our bed) so I have to get up for night feedings. I'm not encouraging him to sleep through the night though because of the supply issues...


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

I agree with you... I FF my first and BF my 2nd and 3rd and while I LOVE BFing and wouldnt trade it for anything, it sure as heck is not easier than FFing.


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## maylea_moon (Mar 4, 2005)

My first child was formula fed and my 3 week old is exclusively breastfed. So far, breastfeeding is WAY easier. Whenever she's hungry my breasts are right there, no going down to the kitchen in the middle of the cold night to prepare bottles, no having to worry about making bottles when I'm out and about, no worrying about the temperature of the milk, etc...

The ONLY thing I liked better about FF was that DH could do night feedings but that still doesn't make it worth it for me and I could always pump if I really needed him to feed her.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goodearthmama* 
I don't see how preparing anything and then washing it afterwards, etc. is easier than Simply putting a hungry baby to your breast instantly satifying him. I mean really, i can't see how that could even be considered not the simplest thing ever!

Also, I think I can stand the "sacrifice" of the extra 30 minutes it takes to feed and nourish my child with my milk that is made for him and sustains him and give him the BEST possible start in life.

In regards to night time, my LO is right beside me in bed and as soon as he stirs= Boom! Breast in mouth and we are both back to sleep in a few minutes. No Big Deal!

I don't need anything when I go anywhere besides a few dipes. Wow, I really just can't believe that anyone would think that ff could possibly be easier.
I mean, unless you have medical problems that prevent bf, I think maybe saying it is easier might justify for making excuses. Sorry, but that is my opinion.

Exactly.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Of course, there are issues that can make breastfeeding difficult, but "lift shirt, attach baby" is really really simple. My husband *hates* it when I'm away and he has to give our son bottles. 2 minutes to prepare something is a loooooong time to a hungry baby. And leaky breasts and breast pads irritating, but that passes eventually.

Being able to let someone else feed the baby every once in awhile (especially during the first few weeks) would have been really lovely, though.

I guess I would say that breastfeeding IS easi*er*, but in the early days it's not always easy.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goodearthmama* 
I don't see how preparing anything and then washing it afterwards, etc. is easier than Simply putting a hungry baby to your breast instantly satifying him. I mean really, i can't see how that could even be considered not the simplest thing ever!

Also, I think I can stand the "sacrifice" of the extra 30 minutes it takes to feed and nourish my child with my milk that is made for him and sustains him and give him the BEST possible start in life.

In regards to night time, my LO is right beside me in bed and as soon as he stirs= Boom! Breast in mouth and we are both back to sleep in a few minutes. No Big Deal!

I don't need anything when I go anywhere besides a few dipes. Wow, I really just can't believe that anyone would think that ff could possibly be easier.
I mean, unless you have medical problems that prevent bf, I think maybe saying it is easier might justify for making excuses. Sorry, but that is my opinion.


But if it isn't easier then why do women switch to formula when there aren't medical reasons?

Also, it is easier to spend 5 minutes versus 30 feeding your child. Not saying it is better, but it is EASIER which is what I am talking about. Not whether or not it's worth the sacrifice. Of course it's worth it!! ITA with that.


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## maylea_moon (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *prothyraia* 

Being able to let someone else feed the baby every once in awhile (especially during the first few weeks) would have been really lovely, though.

I guess I would say that breastfeeding IS easi*er*, but in the early days it's not always easy.









:


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Also, it is easier to spend 5 minutes versus 30 feeding your child. Not saying it is better, but it is EASIER which is what I am talking about. Not whether or not it's worth the sacrifice. Of course it's worth it!! ITA with that.

Sure 5 minutes may seem easier(and maybe you have to feed less often) but ask yourself what are the physiological reasons for this? Because formula is not the perfect food for a baby and it does not digest as easily and so it sits in babies gut longer so baby "feels" fuller. Not becuase they don't need to feed as frequently, but because formula does not digest like breastmilk and is sitting in their guts making them feel full.

Also, because you can't really discuss one aspect without the other, are things that seem easier really easier(like you are suggesting that formula can be easier than breastfeeding)? Sure, it is easy for me to whip out a box of lovely kraft mac and cheese for the kids. It is easier and quicker to cook, but what of the nutrition value? Sure, they may fill up, but just because it is easier to fill up on quick processed foods in the short term, doesn't mean it is easier in the long term(depressing the immune system with less than adequate nutrition).

Look at the fact that the U.S. simultaneously has both an obesity epidemic and a malnutrion epidemic going on. Sure, people are full. Full of proccessed foods that meet little if any nutritional standards.

It's also easier to not workout and excercise than it is to do that. Just because something is easier isn't really a good justification for it to be done.

Maybe it does seem easier to ff than to breastfeed, but are the long term health consequences worth it? If you look at the total life of a person, instead of just ff at infancy, formula is so far from being easier, in fact it's much more costly.

Just smells like a red herring to me.


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## RoundAbout (Aug 3, 2006)

I've done both since I had to supplement the first few months. I thought breastfeeding was much harder in the beginning, especially when your LO wants to nurse around the clock. I kind of hate the breastfeeding is easier argument, since I think women feel duped (at least I did) when it turns out to be a struggle and your nipples feel like they are going to fall off from 24 hour nursing.

However, at this point (DS is 9 months) it really is sooooo much easier. One of the biggest things I like about breastfeeding is being able to do it hands-free. Right now I am typing this very post with a nursing baby on my lap. Have you ever tried holding a bottle, a baby, and typing at the same time? Not really possible.

It also is a great way to put him to sleep. I hear about formula feeding parents having elaborate bedtime routines that involve rocking, singing, cyring, etc. while I just have to latch DS on at night while I read a book and he's out within 20 minutes or so.

As for people helping with formula feeding - great if you *have* help, but my DH was deployed for the first 4 months after birth and I had no family here at all. I was the one getting up no matter what, so it wouldn't have saved me any time/effort. In any case the work is not really lessened, you're just spreading it around (assuming you have a willing partner and lots of help).


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

To answer the op. I personally think breastfeeding was far easier. Although the only thing I have to compare it to is reheating pumped breastmilk. But I have many friends who ff and between health, digestion issues, and the sheer cost of formula alone(meaning extra hours to work, again disputing the ff ios easier claim), washing bottles, preparing bottles in the middle of the night. Nah, I'll take nursing every hour on the hour over that any day. Sorry, but my sleep(and my money, and mine and my babies health) was far to important and I wasn't about to be making any bottles in the middle of the night. Nursing was far easier for me.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

I always found BF relatively easy, but I am a SAHM, who has always been comfortable nursing in public, and mastered breastfeeding in every carrier I own, and I don't own a stroller, or a car. I can definitely see how a mom who needs to work outside the home, or needs to pump, or isn't comfortable with nip, or has to actually sit quietly for the whole feeding each time, or whatever, might find FF easier, because in those cases it wouldn't be as simple as lift shirt, latch on baby. I have super high admiration for women who need to work outside the home, but are dedicated to ebf too, it sounds like a lot of work!


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## nummies (Jun 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *studentmama* 
Sure 5 minutes may seem easier(and maybe you have to feed less often) but ask yourself what are the physiological reasons for this? Because formula is not the perfect food for a baby and it does not digest as easily and so it sits in babies gut longer so baby "feels" fuller. Not becuase they don't need to feed as frequently, but because formula does not digest like breastmilk and is sitting in their guts making them feel full.

Also, because you can't really discuss one aspect without the other, are things that seem easier really easier(like you are suggesting that formula can be easier than breastfeeding)? Sure, it is easy for me to whip out a box of lovely kraft mac and cheese for the kids. It is easier and quicker to cook, but what of the nutrition value? Sure, they may fill up, but just because it is easier to fill up on quick processed foods in the short term, doesn't mean it is easier in the long term(depressing the immune system with less than adequate nutrition).

Look at the fact that the U.S. simultaneously has both an obesity epidemic and a malnutrion epidemic going on. Sure, people are full. Full of proccessed foods that meet little if any nutritional standards.

It's also easier to not workout and excercise than it is to do that. Just because something is easier isn't really a good justification for it to be done.

Maybe it does seem easier to ff than to breastfeed, but are the long term health consequences worth it? If you look at the total life of a person, instead of just ff at infancy, formula is so far from being easier, in fact it's much more costly.

Just smells like a red herring to me.

I agree. Love this post.


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## RoundAbout (Aug 3, 2006)

I also wanted to bring up the issue of travel. Breastfeeding wins there.

We spent a week in Tokyo a few months ago and it was so awesome not to have to worry about packing enough formula or cleaning bottles in a hotel room. I didn't have to worry about taking enough bottles out while sight seeing or wondering if there would be clean water available somewhere.

The flight was also a breeze since I nursed the whole time. I'd see other moms bottle feed their babies and they would still be fussy and there was really no way for them to calm them down on the plane.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *studentmama* 
Sure 5 minutes may seem easier(and maybe you have to feed less often) but ask yourself what are the physiological reasons for this? Because formula is not the perfect food for a baby and it does not digest as easily and so it sits in babies gut longer so baby "feels" fuller. Not becuase they don't need to feed as frequently, but because formula does not digest like breastmilk and is sitting in their guts making them feel full.


No.....it is because they are getting the milk much quicker through a bottle. Also, formula is not the equivalent of Kraft. My son drank Fresh, Local Goats milk that was supplemented with flax seed oil etc.
he digested the Goat's milk much easier than my breast milk.
I never said that he fed LESS FREQUENTLY because he didn't. He ate the same amount whether it was Breast Milk or Goats Milk.


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## Amylcd (Jun 16, 2005)

To me, formula feeding was much easier.


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## nummies (Jun 9, 2007)

Am I still on Mothering?


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## nummies (Jun 9, 2007)

Guess I should elaborate...

Different things are easier for different people. My good friend can run 5 miles without breaking a sweat but if I tried it....I would be having a heart attack after mile numero uno.

Breastfeeding isn't always easy. But then again, motherhood isn't easy.


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## Clarinet (Nov 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
I could also ask DP to give him the bottle which is not an option if you are bfing. {my snip} With Formula, anyone can help out. It doesn't have to be you who feeds the baby every time.

To me, these statements of yours sums up why formula feeding is easier. The mother doesn't have to do it. While breastfeeding, I carried diapers and a change of clothes. I didn't worry about having extra water, formula cans/dispensers, bottles, cooler bags. I didn't leak after the first few weeks. It never took a long time to do it unless the little ones were having growth spurts. The only thing that was time consuming about nursing, for me, was that it was actually ME that had to do it.

And giving a bottle IS an option while breastfeeding. I, however, would choose to pump instead of feeding formula.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *studentmama* 
Maybe it does seem easier to ff than to breastfeed, but are the long term health consequences worth it? If you look at the total life of a person, instead of just ff at infancy, formula is so far from being easier, in fact it's much more costly.

Just smells like a red herring to me.


No the long term consequences are not worth it at all.

I never implied that they were.

Breast is Best and I said that in my original post. I don;t think that ff being easier is a good reason not to bf.

*So if breastfeeding is so much easier, then why do people switch to expensive formulas? What is the motivation for Formula Feeding? (beyond medical reasons)
*

.


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 

So if breastfeeding is so much easier, then why do people switch to expensive formulas? What is the motivation for Formula Feeding? (beyond medical reasons)


Because they *think* they have medical reasons. Because they think breastfeeding is weird/gross/just a little uncomfortable. Because they've poorly managed their breastfeeding relationship and have ended up with low supply. Because they think they have to watch their diet too carefully. Because they want more freedom. Because they want their partner to "bond" with the baby more. Etc.Etc.Etc.

Edited to add: And I think one of the big ones is feeling too touched out, even if most people don't put it in those words.


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## natural_mama89 (May 4, 2007)

I think that most people don't get through the _initial_ hard period of breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is often quite difficult for the first few weeks, but is much easier afterward. With my son I had to pump and feed him with a medicine dropper for the first few weeks until he learned how to calm down when hungry long enough to latch. This included staying up and waking him up every 1.5 hours to make sure he was eating enough. Most people would have given up if they had to do this. But, after he learned how to latch he never took longer than 15 minutes to eat unless he was going through a growth spurt. I didn't have to get up in the middle of the night or take anything with me but a diaper on short trips. I did have to pump once a day while I was at school, but I didn't find pumping very difficult, and i *could* have given him formula during that time if I had wanted to.


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
No the long term consequences are not worth it at all.

I never implied that they were.

Breast is Best and I said that in my original post. I don;t think that ff being easier is a good reason not to bf.

*So if breastfeeding is so much easier, then why do people switch to expensive formulas? What is the motivation for Formula Feeding? (beyond medical reasons)
*
.

I understand how you stated your first post, but my brain just does not work like that I can not at anytime make a decision, especially one that affects the life of a child and a mother, without always considering the longterm consequences.

The motivation for formula feeding that I have learned from friends who did, is that they felt like a failure at breastfeeding, they thought their baby was not getting enough because baby wanted to feed so frequently, and bascially being uneducated and having very little, if any at all, support to continue breastfeeding.

When everyone from the doctor, to the nurse to the dh to the mil to the mom is telling someone it's the same, it's like choosing between pepsi and coke, it's much easier to go the ff route because 99 out of 100 times, that woman was already sabtogued by introducing ff to early, or bottles, and they are struggling with nursing. Yeah, when you are having breastfeeding problems, it is much easier to do ff than to stick it out and get the bf right, but people have so little support to do that, that most don't.

So the short answer? No info, no support, and the perception that ff is modern and the same as bf.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

I have never (IRL, I don't know anyone on here, either) met anyone ever who switched to formula b/c it was easier. Because it wasn't "gross", yes, or because they wanted to be able to drink/whatever, yes, b/c of medical issues, yes.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

BFing is often harder than FF in the beginning. In this culture, it's probably USUALLY harder. It sure wasn't easy for us. I have no doubt it was harder than FF in the beginning.

But after 10 weeks, it suddenly became so easy. Going out, we didn't have to plan a whole bag. We could stay out longer than we planned and not worry a bit. Travel is a breeze. Cranky babies and toddlers and easily soothed with a boob. No dishes, etc. I really think for most mothers, BF is easier than FF after the initial hurdle (for some, of course, it's still harder... pumping is hard, for example).


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:

I understand how you stated your first post, but my brain just does not work like that I can not at anytime make a decision, especially one that affects the life of a child and a mother, without always considering the longterm consequences
.

right, me neither. it's almost completely irrelevant to me which is easier. "Easier" is subjective. I had to pump and bottlefeed, and yet, I didn't hand off the baby to others to feed, except DH, about once or twice per day.

I don't know that keeping milk in a cooler bag next to the bed is the most sanitary thing in the world. How do you know the correct temperature is being maintained to prevent harmful bacteria growth? Especially if it's only taking two minutes to heat up the bottle with a hot water bag?

until DD was much older, I couldn't give her a bottle and sleep at the same time, or even semi-sleep, like some mothers are able to do while bf'ing.

Going out of the house was a huge one. I cannot imagine anyone thinking it's easier to bring bottles! Not having to stop to pack all that crap every time before you leave?? I would've killed for that! Camping, flying, beach, whatever, you've got perfect temperature, readily available milk at all times. What could be easier than that? Needing a sink to wash bottles and nipples wherever you're going is a total PITA.

An _easy_ breastfeeding experience is easier than the easiest formula feeding experience, IMHO. Of course, formula feeding would have been easier than EP'ing, would be easier than someone who deals with chronic mastitis or other problems, but that's comparing apples to oranges.


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## bri276 (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:

So if breastfeeding is so much easier, then why do people switch to expensive formulas? What is the motivation for Formula Feeding? (beyond medical reasons)
Because they *think* FF is easier, because they're going back to work and don't have adequate time or space to pump, because of familial and societal pressures to do the "normal" thing and bottlefeed, and/or because they don't believe breastfeeding is really better than formula.

and a lot of "medical reasons" are misinformation from LCs and pediatricians. The hospital or doctor gets the baby started on bottles and it's downhill from there. That's the most common reason I see mothers stop bf'ing, bar none.


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

okay, i did forget about the handing them off to others bit...

but i never had that. if i was with my child, i was the one feeding them, pure and simple. therefore, they got the boob. the only one i had help with was my first...and she ended up having to switch to formula.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I EP'd for 18 months, (dd couldn't nurse) and I know it would have been easier to ff. But if I didn't have to pump then bottle feed, I think each bfing and ffing have their conveniences and inconveniences.

I would pump last thing before sleeping, and leave the bottle of milk already prepared in the mini-fridge next to my bed. When dd woke, I reached over, grabbed it, and stuck it in her mouth. No need to get up. (I never warmed bottles.) I do that now with toddler formula. It would be nice to not have to take sippy cups with me when I go out, but its really not that big of an inconvienence. Now, when I had to drag the pump everywhere... That sucked!!!!!

But, even with pumping and bottle feeding, I haven't had to take dd to the doctor yet for being sick. Would she have had to go if she was formula fed from day one? Probably. So right there it was worth it for me to EP. This kid just doesn't get sick, even when everyone around her is sick. Neither I or dh had to miss work for her being sick. To me, that is worth just about any inconvenience. She STILL doesn't get sick at 23 months old, and she only gets about 4 oz a day of breastmilk. So, to me, bfing (whether from the tap or from EPing) is so worth any inconvenience.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Okay I'll bite.

I became pregnant with our 4th child when #3 was only 4 1/2 months old. My milk supply diminished in such a way I could not just feed him solid food to make up for it. He was given a goat's milk formula much like it sounds like you use. We made it at home, fresh every day.

First, you speak of handing off the baby to someone else to be fed. My DP got up to do a middle of the night feeding exactly ONCE. The entire time DS was bottlefed. The rest of the time, I was out of bed in the middle of the night, bleary eyed, heating a pan of water to warm the bottle, crying baby in my arms, when all I would have needed to do was roll over and latch him onto my breast if I'd still been nursing him. I could have been back to sleep in 30 seconds, and he would have nursed until he was finished and gone back to sleep.

I'm sorry but the whole "passing the baby off to someone else to be fed" thing doesn't fly with me. Breastfeeding is easier, safer, cleaner, cheaper, healthier and better.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Disclaimer/Background: I bf DS#1 for 3 days (while in the hospital). After I got home, I switched to formula. I am again pregnant, and again plan to attempt breastfeeding. Thus, the following is not intended to promote FF anymore than the OP was.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natural_mama89* 
I think that most people don't get through the _initial_ hard period of breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is often quite difficult for the first few weeks, but is much easier afterward.

YES, YES, YES!

I do firmly believe that breastfeeding gets easier the longer you do it. It HAS to--otherwise, why would so many women think it is easier than FF? The first week that I was home, I did continue to try to BF, but it was SO hard. I had no support. The only thing the nurse at the hospital told me was that while I should supplement with a bottle, I should not give it to him; he should associate the breast with me. That's well and good, and makes some sense, but do you know how hard it is for a new mom to just hand her baby over to someone else and watch them feed him?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
But if it isn't easier then why do women switch to formula when there aren't medical reasons?

*Also, it is easier to spend 5 minutes versus 30 feeding your child. Not saying it is better, but it is EASIER which is what I am talking about.* Not whether or not it's worth the sacrifice. Of course it's worth it!! ITA with that.

I agree. Even though I fully intend to breastfeed my next child, I don't see it being any easier. My DS (8 mo) is FF. I use drop-ins, so I don't need to sterilize. He has always prefered cold formula, so no warming up. (And what are people talking about "warming" a bottle? Don't you just use warm tap water?) It's easier to hold him while FF than it ever was BF (though, I suppose that's something that comes with practice).

If you're co-sleeping, which I do NOT plan to do (ever), I can possibly see how bfing might be easier, but aside from the mom's at MDC, the average American parent does not co-sleep. That means getting up every 1-2 hours for the forseeable future. It means you can never get a full night of sleep. And I know that most moms on here are okay with whipping it out in public, but I'm a little more shy. I see it being a PITA to try to cover up in public. It was a PITA to try to hide my boob from my ILs and my family.

Again, I'm not saying the hassle isn't worth it. I firmly believe it is, and I intended to BF my next child. I'm just trying to offer an explaination to the OP as to why I, personally, chose to FF.

I think there's a LOT to the first quote though: bf DOES get easier, but only if you stick with it. Not many moms have the support they need to stick with it. And frankly, even with all the support you get on here: it's not quite the same as real-life support.

One more thing: I can't connect it, but I want to throw this in. My hospital was terrible at helping me BF. The nurse immediately labled my nipples as flat and shoved a sheild at me. Then the doc told me to get rid of the shield. Then they told me he'd lost too much weight and I NEEDED to supplement. I don't believe my situation was unique. I think hospitals are terrible at encouraging breastfeeding. And for the average American mom, who doesn't have MDC, who doesn't realize how much better it is to BF, it's pretty hard to force yourself to do something inherently difficult when your doctor doesn't even endorse it.


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## gwynthfair (Mar 17, 2006)

I don't think one is universally easier than other. Some people, who are comfortable nursing wherever they are, may feel breastfeeding is easier. Others, who are not comfortable NIP, may feel FF is easier. There are many times when I've been jealous of my FF friends because they don't have to worry about their supply being affected by missing a feeding, which has been my biggest issue with breastfeeding. That and I've been pumping for 9 months. I can tell you one thing, FF is certainly easier than pumping. So for working moms, FF certainly may be easier.

Bottom line, people are different and consider different things to be easier. I totally agree that women should not be told that breastfeeding is always rainbows and sunshine, especially in the beginning. But you also want to be careful not to discourage.

Also, ITA that most people just don't think there is anything wrong with formula. Most people I know think that BF is just a super added bonus. And only aim to BF for a couple months. Only 1 of my friends continued to nurse her babe to 1 year and she is starting to wean him. But she's a SAHM.


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## groovynaturemama (Mar 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
*No.....it is because they are getting the milk much quicker through a bottle*. Also, formula is not the equivalent of Kraft. My son drank Fresh, Local Goats milk that was supplemented with flax seed oil etc.
he digested the Goat's milk much easier than my breast milk.
I never said that he fed LESS FREQUENTLY because he didn't. He ate the same amount whether it was Breast Milk or Goats Milk.

actually, and i speak not of goats' milk formula (i do not know if it is true of it), commercial cows' milk formula does in fact sit in the baby's tummy longer as it has much larger amounts of casein protein. the curds from the casein protein in the formula take about four hours to leave baby's tummy, thereby causing less frequent feeding. BM has far less casein protein than cow milk formula and a lot more of a protein known as lactalbumin, which is digested much more efficiently and almost completely absorbed, thereby causing the baby to feed more often. so, they may get full quicker with the flow that BM or formula comes out of a bottle, but then i'd consider getting a slower flow nipple to reduce the icidence of gas or upset tummy.

but, to answer the question at hand... despite dd being born tongue tied and having about 3 weeks of latch problems, moderate jaundice and a 13% weight loss on a baby who was 3 weeks early, i still think BFing is easier. i did have to give and ounce or two of formula at one point when i had no milk to pump in the early days after her birth, and making a bottle at 230 am of that stinky formula, and then having to deal with the spit up and tummy ache each time she had the formula was no picnic. it took a while to master nursing while laying down in our bed. however getting up at night with dd to nurse in those early weeks was bliss once we got the latch and the mechanics of bfing down. it was hard, but soooooo worth it IMO. she turned 5 mos on monday and has not had anything but my mama milk with the exception of the 2 or 3 formula feedings a few days after her birth when my milk would not pump out. as pps have mentioned, it is way easier when travelling, not haveing to carry bottles around, and dd doesn't have to wait for preparation of her meals which makes for a very happy baby.


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## ksera05 (Apr 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
If you're co-sleeping, which I do NOT plan to do (ever), I can possibly see how bfing might be easier, but aside from the mom's at MDC, the average American parent does not co-sleep.

Actually, I think someone did a study awhile ago that showed that something like 80% of American parents cosleep at least a few times with their infants - it's just not talked about because it's "shameful".

Quote:

I think there's a LOT to the first quote though: bf DOES get easier, but only if you stick with it. Not many moms have the support they need to stick with it. And frankly, even with all the support you get on here: it's not quite the same as real-life support.

One more thing: I can't connect it, but I want to throw this in. My hospital was terrible at helping me BF. The nurse immediately labled my nipples as flat and shoved a sheild at me. Then the doc told me to get rid of the shield. Then they told me he'd lost too much weight and I NEEDED to supplement. I don't believe my situation was unique. I *think hospitals are terrible at encouraging breastfeeding. And for the average American mom, who doesn't have MDC, who doesn't realize how much better it is to BF, it's pretty hard to force yourself to do something inherently difficult when your doctor doesn't even endorse it.*
I totally agree. Breastfeeding just is not supported like it should be. At all.

OP - I've done both and breastfeeding was easier, hands down no question. But it took a lot of work to get to the point of it being easier.


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## crwilson (Mar 13, 2007)

I think that objectively speaking, there are some things that are "easier" about ff. Just not for me. I'm a very forgetful person, so half the time I forget diapers. The thing that usually saves me is that I always have my carrier which has a diaper in the front pocket. Fortunately I cannot ever forget dd's "food" when we're going out because it's attached to me. I'm also very opposed to getting out of bed at night or even completely waking up. So breastfeeding is a lot easier for me in that regard. Have there been times when I wish that someone else could feed her because I was doing something at the moment that she was hungry? Yes, absolutely. But most of the time it's a nice break from what I'm doing.

that said, it is a big sacrifice in many (objective) ways, and I do think that that bfing literature is misleading in this regard. I think that to truly promote breastfeeding, it's important to be honest about it and say that it's worth it anyway. Even if it is sometimes harder or even if it does sometimes hurt or take a while to get used to, I would NEVER trade this experience. I think that focusing on the benefits of bfing such as health and an increased attachment with your child and maternal/baby well-being would be a better and more honest way to approach the issue. It's not always easy, but most good things aren't.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

It's easier because with formula, you can pass on the responsibility of feeding your baby.
If you're the type however who is VERY hands-on, FF is very hard. What with all the disassembling, cleaning, sterilizing, making sure you have enough in your diaper bag, having another bag to carry the empty bottles (for longer trips), finding a good supply of clean water (if you're not in the US), making sure the formula can isn't contaminated, dealing with spoiling and waste issues and the list goes on...
My first 3 months breastfeeding was very, very hard. But all breastfeeding benefits aside, I will still choose to breastfeed my future children just for the convenience.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

I don't think that the ability to drop your baby and a few bottles off with someone else and go somewhere because you're not the source of food is relevant if we're comparing attachment parents who bf and attachment parents who formula feed. That argument only makes sense if you're a mainstreamer and view detaching from your baby as a boon. If I had had to ff, I would still have kept her with me and held her for every feeding.

Also, if it takes 5 minutes to feed a baby a bottle, that's 5 minutes you're sitting there holding a bottle in your hand, even if the baby's in the sling. If it takes 40 minutes for a baby to nurse, that's 40 minutes of having a baby latched onto your nipple and in a sling with both your hands free, as opposed to all the other time of the day with a baby in a sling and not attached to your nipple, with both hands free. I could do the same things while nursing an infant that I could while napping an infant or just hanging out having happy babywearing time.


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## goodearthmama (Nov 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
But if it isn't easier then why do women switch to formula when there aren't medical reasons?

Also, it is easier to spend 5 minutes versus 30 feeding your child. Not saying it is better, but it is EASIER which is what I am talking about. Not whether or not it's worth the sacrifice. Of course it's worth it!! ITA with that.

I am not sure why some women switch if not for medical reasons. However, I would think that the emphasis our society places on ffing is huge part of it. I mean we live in a society that moves so fast and expects immediate gratification. This could also be the reason someone would think it is "easier" for a 5 minute feeding than taking 30 minutes to breastfeed. Is 30 minutes really that long compared to a lifetime of health and security that I believe results from the bond/attachment that is a result of bfing?


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

I haven't FF, but I am a WOHM who pumped at work and gave DD bottles while I was gone.

BFing started out rough for me, between latch issues and a baby who was losing too much weight. The first month was horrible, the second was a bit better. By the 3rd month, we were rollin'. FF would have probably been a zillion times easier. . .well maybe. Because for some reason, DD wouldn't latch on a bottle or pacifier either. . .she had some problems with her mouth and tongue. So we may have had to syringe feed her anyway.

After overcoming the initial few months, things got much much easier. My DD was an efficient eater. . .5 minutes _max_, once every 3 hrs. It really took me no more than a few minutes to get her fed, wherever we are. I didn't have to worry about taking bottles with me and all the associated supplies. And I'm very grateful for that. I had to make 3 bottles a day (Playtex Drop-Ins too) for her while I was at work and that was a huge PITA. I cannot fathom preparing 8-12 bottles a day. Yikes.

So for me, BFing was definitely harder at first. But after we got it nailed, it was easy peasy.

As far as the "someone to feed baby" argument, that didn't apply to me. My DH never got up in the middle of the night, even with the best of intentions. He did feed her on his days off while I was at work or if I had to be gone for the house for longer than 3 hours. But while I was home? No, I was gone from my baby for 9+ hrs already and there was no way I'd hand her off to be fed by someone else if I was perfectly capable of doing it myself.


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## tbavrbab (Dec 4, 2006)

Hmm, well with my son I started with breastfeeding, but he never had a decent latch. That plus my need to have a breast biopsy done lead us to wean at 2 months.

Back then, breastfeeding was NOT easier. I'd struggle to get him to latch, he'd NEVER latch on the left, only the right. I'd feed him, pump the left, try to feed it to him in a bottle, he'd never eat it, I'd end up throwing it away, making formula, then washing TWO bottles and my pump. Not to mention the screaming and fussing and drama that went on...

Yeah it sucked, when we did just go to forumla it "felt" easier. Sure it WAS easier...we were skipping several steps. Was it cheaper? No. Was it healthier? Oh HECK NO! It was then we discovered my son's dairy issue (cannot at all consume) and his bowel narrowing and kidney issues, etc.

With my daughter I managed to breastfeed exclusive after we got her home (NICU stay, she was fed bottles, mostly my EBM, but some special preemie formula too). Easier isn't the right word for breastfeeding...it's even more than easier...it's the easiest!

Sure, every so often I'll get busy and get grumpy about having to get "out of my groove" to sit down and nurse her (she will only nurse in a sling if desperate...she's a wee bit stubborn







)...but in all fairness it isn't really that much time out of my day, and I enjoy the time once I get over my grumpiness at being interrupted.

As for nighttime...my husband and I agree, this is WAY easier than dealing with the screaming and crying until we can heat a bottle, 2 minutes or not, that 2 minutes at 3 am is rough to listen to your little one cry. It feels like forever, and sometimes it takes longer than 2 minutes. Not to mention it usually involves ALL of us being awake instead of me waking up enough to get her latched before falling back asleep (half the time she isn't even fully awake yet).

Not to mention the air they swallow while crying. Causing gas, causing MORE issues....ugh at least that's how it was with my son...

No...breastfeeding is the *easiest*, so long as you are present to take care of the baby. When you're pumping all the time (especially round the clock) and washing bottles and pump parts, warming milk, etc....well maybe it isn't "easier" then (it is still healthier AND cheaper), but it sure is worth the effort.

So, I disagree with you, breastfeeding IS easier so long as it happens the way it is intended (baby at breast). When we start adding frequent maternal absences or frequent b ottle usage...well then it isn't really any easier...though it is still cheaper and healthier for the baby.

BTW, sometimes there are many reasons a mom may be away from her baby, they include NICU/PICU other hospital stays, or working, or several other reasons which do not make a mom NOT an attachment parent.


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## mamalibby (Aug 20, 2007)

I EP'd for 18 months
You are my new breastfeeding goddess.

I had to pump for the first two weeks when DS wasn't latching, then another two weeks just on one side where we couldn't get the hang of it, and that WIPED ME OUT. But by the time DS was 6 weeks old, I couldn't imagine having to get up at night to sterilize bottles, to have to wake up all the way to feed, etc.
I think that for most women (those that don't have big hurdles, anyway), BF is easier, once you get past the milk establishment phase (mine stayed on non-stop for 2 weeks, I had to sleep upright in a Lazy Boy holding him on a Boppy).
BTW, my BFF is weaning her DD at 9mo (she fed her boys for 8 and 4 months), and she says it's bc she "just can't do it anymore" bc she can't take the time to sit down with two other kids to look after. I can't really sympathize bc I have just the one, and for 8 months (he's 9mo), he's seen BF as a sprint: he just takes little 5 minute nips here and there. Plus, it ALWAYS WORKS for soothing . always. I don't know how I'll parent when he stops nursing, I guess I'll have to read a book or something


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## mamalibby (Aug 20, 2007)

"I EP'd for 18 months"

You are my new breastfeeding goddess.
(sorry, I just saw the quote function too late)

I had to pump for the first two weeks when DS wasn't latching, then another two weeks just on one side where we couldn't get the hang of it, and that WIPED ME OUT. But by the time DS was 6 weeks old, I couldn't imagine having to get up at night to sterilize bottles, to have to wake up all the way to feed, etc.
I think that for most women (those that don't have big hurdles, anyway), BF is easier, once you get past the milk establishment phase (mine stayed on non-stop for 2 weeks, I had to sleep upright in a Lazy Boy holding him on a Boppy).
BTW, my BFF is weaning her DD at 9mo (she fed her boys for 8 and 4 months), and she says it's bc she "just can't do it anymore" bc she can't take the time to sit down with two other kids to look after. I can't really sympathize bc I have just the one, and for 8 months (he's 9mo), he's seen BF as a sprint: he just takes little 5 minute nips here and there. Plus, it ALWAYS WORKS for soothing . always. I don't know how I'll parent when he stops nursing, I guess I'll have to read a book or something


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crwilson* 
I think that objectively speaking, there are some things that are "easier" about ff. Just not for me. I'm a very forgetful person, so half the time I forget diapers. The thing that usually saves me is that I always have my carrier which has a diaper in the front pocket. Fortunately I cannot ever forget dd's "food" when we're going out because it's attached to me. I'm also very opposed to getting out of bed at night or even completely waking up. So breastfeeding is a lot easier for me in that regard. Have there been times when I wish that someone else could feed her because I was doing something at the moment that she was hungry? Yes, absolutely. But most of the time it's a nice break from what I'm doing.

that said, *it is a big sacrifice in many (objective) ways, and I do think that that bfing literature is misleading in this regard. I think that to truly promote breastfeeding, it's important to be honest about it and say that it's worth it anyway. Even if it is sometimes harder or even if it does sometimes hurt or take a while to get used to, I would NEVER trade this experience. I think that focusing on the benefits of bfing such as health and an increased attachment with your child and maternal/baby well-being would be a better and more honest way to approach the issue. It's not always easy, but most good things aren't.*

This makes sense to me. Especially the bold (mine)

And it makes sense what others are saying about later on. Once my DS was at the age that we only did a couple bottles a day it would have been MUCH easier to breastfeed. But for me since my only experience is breastfeeding until he was 5 months old the formula was much easier than bfing had been.

We have been lucky that DS is very healthy and never gets sick, but I wonder if that is because I breastfed for 5 months. And also we did the Goat's Milk (healthier and cheaper!) instead of commercial formula.

This is really interesting and I am glad that people aren't getting upset. It is nice when we can talk about things without being rude


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## aamna (Mar 20, 2007)

Maybe it depends on the child. When I babysat my cousin's FF baby for a couple of days overnight, it was exhausting to say the least. Getting up at night whenever she was hungry, making her bottle, waiting for it to warm if it was cold, waiting until she was done feeding. Washing the bottles, nipples, nipple rings. Having no idea whether the bottles were clean enough, and if it was powdered formula i was worried about the water. With my DS I just roll over, give him what he wants and we both fall asleep together. I don't have to worry about bottles when we're out or contamination. BFing is also easier on my mind because I know it's best thing for my son.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

I also could not sleep will bfing...I my breasts were a size H and we had to get out of bed to nurse.
So for me FFing meant that I could stay in bed.


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

I would give my right arm to be able to BF my SN babe.

I still mix formula every single night and have been for a very very long time. I may have to do this for the rest of his childhood..

BF is infinitely easier. Once you hit day 10 or 14, BF is absolutely easier.

FF is a PITA. Carrying bottles, and yada yada. Making sure you have enough formula , plus the money! We have spent thousands on formula in the last yr or two.

BF is easier.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Sidelying nursing is a Godsend!
Of course, we only learned how to do it nearly a year after. But still...








Most (all, actually) of my friends who eventually formula-fed did so for the ff reasons:
(1) medical for baby - baby not gaining enough wait, almost FTT
(2) discouraged by so-called experts - their OB/Gyn, Pediatrician
(3) had the wrong info - milk did not come right after birth, ergo, they do not have milk; FF while waiting for milk to come in, caused nipple confusion, mixed fed some more, supply dried up
(4) work - no time/place to pump at work or just too cumbersome to do so (i think this is where FF might be easier)
(5) too painful

Save for the few people I know whose reasons were 4 and 5, I do not believe I know of anyone else who chose to FF because it was easier (maybe my mom though...







). I think a lot had to do with lack of information that eventually led to the ceasing of a breastfeeding relationship between mom and child.


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## BetsyS (Nov 8, 2004)

I breastfeed my son, and it's insanely easy. I just feed him, and that's that. We had thrush at a few weeks old, but that's the only problem we've had.

I didn't conquer side lying nursing for a long time (like 11 months







), so I got up for every night time feeding and sat in a chair. But....there was no _thinking_ involved--unlike trying to fumble for a bottle, even if served cold. I never really fully woke up for those feedings.

I still can't do hands free nursing--I have to hold my breast for him to latch well. But, honestly, it's like 5 minutes every 3 hours. I can deal with that.

I'm not a big NIP kinda gal. We cover in public, I nurse in the car sometimes, and I try to time outings in between his feedings. I would still say it's easier than having to remember to bring formula and bottles along on any outing.

My dh probably wouldn't be getting up to do feedings, even if I was a ff. He only changes about 1 diaper a week. He much prefers to play. And, like a pp said, I liked being the only one that could feed my son--it was special time for me and him. I wouldn't have liked seeing my MIL give him a bottle, for example.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BetsyS* 
I liked being the only one that could feed my son--it was special time for me and him. I wouldn't have liked seeing my MIL give him a bottle, for example.

ITA with that. I didn't have a good emotional response to other ppl giving Owen a bottle. It was a while before I would even be in the same room. It just felt wrong!
I just assumed that not all women feel that way, and wasn't really factoring that in. But ff can definitely be very emotionally difficult, eps if you have really tried for a bfing relationship.
But I don;t really see that as being the mainstream experience. I think that a lot of women don't even know what they are missing to be able to feel bad, yk?

I think that literature saying bfing is the easiest thing ever is setting women up for failure. With everyone always talking about how simple it is, no wonder women think they can't breastfeed when they are having a minor problem. They are hearing everywhere they turn that bfing is so easy and natural. So when it isn't easy and natural for them, they think there is something wrong with THEM. Esp if they have doc telling them that etc...

That is my whole point in this. I think that we need to be honest and say that breastfeeding is not always easier.


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

BFing is way easier, when I compare my experiences with those of my sister, who FF both of her kids.

FF would be easier than pumping, I concede. I hate pumping and have struggled with it off and on since I went back to work. I can't say that if DD didn't catagorically reject formula, I wouldn't have relied on it more in lieu of pumped breastmilk while I was at work. As it is now, she has still gets the occasional bottle of goat's or cow's milk when my pumping efforts fall short.

But even pumped milk is easer to handle than formula for the simple fact that it doesn't spoil as easy.


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## delphiniumpansy (Mar 1, 2007)

I think breastfeeding is easier for some if you consider my experience. Never had any infections or nipple issues with #1. (#2 still too young to count but am knocking wood that good luck repeats) I had to supplement with formula when she was a newbie and hated all the bottle cleaning and formula is expensive. I hated pumping breastmilk so I stopped.

So, if you are not pumping, no bottles to purchase, baby nurses quickly, and you have no infection/nipple issues then breastfeeding is easier, cheaper, and more convenient.

I think it would be more appropriate for the breastfeeding literature to talk about how it is cheaper than formula, more convenient than formula, and sometimes easier. Not always. Certainly, if baby takes a long time to nurse or you have infection/nipple issues or you don't always enjoy being the only one to feed your baby, it is not easier. And, if you have to spend a lot of time and money dealing with infections or supply issues, it is not easier.

But, for me, it was.


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## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

It may only take two minutes to give a bottle of formula at night, but I can feed my baby *in my sleep* (literally).

beat that














:


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## eurobin (Aug 20, 2006)

BFing was definitely easier for me than FFing would have been. I only had pain for about 3 days (and lots of things are painful 3 days after delivery!). I didn't have any serious supply issues. I didn't leak past the first month. I didn't need to bring any extra stuff to feed the baby when we were out - I had an easy time NIPing (no spraying, a fairly content latcher, etc). I had no issues with getting rid of bottles at age one. Plus we are a happy co-sleeping bunch so nighttime nursing with minimal awake time was the only way I could have survived this first year.

The only time when it would have been easier FOR ME to FF is because I'm a working mom. Pumping was not fun. I wasn't about to risk my supply and supplement with formula just because it'd be easier but that was the only time in my experience that I felt that BFing was the more difficult choice.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

BFing def does get easier but in the beginning it can be incredibly difficult...and ff can seem easier...i think when people say "easier" they are thinking day to day life...not long term consequences...i also dont see how anyone who hasnt done both can truly answer which one is easier (or seemed easier to them)..


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
I think that literature saying bfing is the easiest thing ever is setting women up for failure.

That's a very good point. When I was having problems the 1st three months, I felt like such a failure as a mom. It was not until I started attending LLL that I realized that it was a fairly common occurrence to have difficulties.
And even though it might be easiER than FF, it doesn't necessarily mean it is indeed EASY.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

WAY easier to nurse. No bottles. No washing. No mixing. No taking crap with me.

Step one- pull up shirt
step two- nurse

-Angela


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## riaketty (Jul 26, 2007)

I can definately see where people say FF is easier... I mean, especially during the first two weeks.
Luckily with me, I had prepared to be overblown by nipple pain, bad latch, etc... and hardly had any at all. DD latched perfect from day one, very little pain, and a good steady supply makes BF easier for us.
When she's at the ILs, though, she's formula fed because I can't seem to pump very good, even with a Medela PIS. And being able to hand over the baby with the bottle is nice. But if I could have pumped, I wouldn't have ever given formula.

A quick note, too, about bottle nipples... most have one hole where formula comes out. An average female's nipple has five. I can't... possibly... see how FF would be faster because they're getting more... I agree that it's because the crap in formula that doesn't digest and makes them feel full.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
But if it isn't easier then why do women switch to formula when there aren't medical reasons?

Propaganda and brainwashing.

-Angela


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Propaganda and brainwashing.

Yep. So many women formula feed because of the millions of dollars spent on marketing formula.

Breastfeeding might be difficult in the early weeks, but it's much easier in the long run. But, I don't know that it should matter. Being a parent isn't easy. If you want easy, get a goldfish.


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## mamajama (Oct 12, 2002)

I don't think it's only propaganda and brainwashing for a lot of women. It's pretty much impossible to say which is easier really. Because different people have different situations and challenges to overcome. There are many deeply rooted emotional/psychological reasons why some women cannot breastfeed. For me, it was easier because I'm pretty spontaneous and disorganised and I'd never have to risk forgetting to bring the baby's food







. Didn't have to worry about washing dishes. Could travel whenever I pleased and for as long as I pleased etc. Plus, for me it was essentially free except I probably ate and drank more.

I think that barring all other obstacles---taking two physically and emotionally balanced, healthy women and placing them in socially supportive environments---breastfeeding would be easier after the initial few weeks of adjustment.


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## NewMama2007 (Mar 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Propaganda and brainwashing.

-Angela









:

I'm a full time WOHM, and I have to say it would be much, much easier to not bleed over a pump 2x a day and give ABM. BUT, I am taking into account the time and stress that will arise from a sick child later down the road. I am taking into account the fact that DD has a family history of breast cancer and colon/rectal cancer and bfing decreases the risk for both of those. I am taking into account my own decreasing risk for breast cancer by nursing. I am taking into account what is best for my baby, and for me, I will continue to bleed over that pump before I give in to ABM and potentially harm my baby. It would be easier now to give ABM, but I am doing what is best for DD for the future.

And to answer your question, "lift shirt, insert boob" is the simplest, quickest, easiest way to feed my baby. Pumping is not. But, for the long term, it's easier for me to be slightly inconvenienced and bleeding now and have a potentially healthier child later.


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## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

as a mom who's done both, BF is so much easier. I hated washing bottles, having to worry about taking enough with me places, spending all that money on formula, etc, etc, etc.


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## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

Who are these people that religiously sterilize bottles and take 5 minutes to make up a new one?

I pump and supplement, and while pumping is a pain, the "bottle" part isn't very hard at all...

Holy cow. I think the only time I "sterlized" a bottle was when I first bought them, and that was just the ol' "sterlize before use". Otherwise, I toss the used ones in the sink and wash them when I do the rest of the dishes. Mixing up a bottle of formula (or getting a bottle of bm set)? Before bed I make one up and put it in the fridge...when DD wakes, we pop the bottle in her mouth...no warming, no stumbling around in the dark mixing random amounts of powder with water...

And, as for washing pump parts...I just put them in the fridge when I'm done and wash them every few days...if milk stays good for a week in the fridge, any pump part residue should be ok, I figure...haven't had any problems yet...

BF-ing is probably more convenient, but I don't think FF is any "harder" other than the foresight to make a bottle up if you're going somewhere.


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## BetsyS (Nov 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katheek77* 
Otherwise, I toss the used ones in the sink and wash them when I do the rest of the dishes.

Dishes must not be the hated chore at your house.









And, really, who are you people with fridges in your bedrooms? The only time I've seen that is on some crazy TV special about mansions. I'm jealous!







To get to a fridge in my house, you have to go downstairs (we sleep upstairs).


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## mama_lola (Jul 4, 2007)

It's totally different depending on the child.

My DD is EBF. She nurses for about 5-10 minutes and is done. Every once in a while she will want to comfort nurse or nurse to sleep. While she's nursing I can type away on my laptop, change channels on the TV or eat a meal. When she is hungry all I have to do is pop out a boob, no hassle. When she is done I tuck my boob away and we go on with our day.

I babysit a boy only weeks younger than her who is FF. He takes about 30-60 minutes to finish his bottle. When i feed him I have to have one head behind his head or he will turn to look at everything and then scream when the bottle comes out of his mouth. When I feed him I have to focus completely on him to make sure he nipple stays in his mouth. When he is hungry he screams the entire time I am making a bottle. My water takes a good minute to warm up and he won't take it cold, so I try to comfort him while I make his bottle and he screams. Assuming he's finished all of the formula I have to then wash the bottle so I have a clean one to use at the next feeding.

From my experience, BFing is much easier!


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
Yep. So many women formula feed because of the millions of dollars spent on marketing formula.

Breastfeeding might be difficult in the early weeks, but it's much easier in the long run. But, I don't know that it should matter. Being a parent isn't easy. If you want easy, get a goldfish.









:


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## dentmom3 (Aug 10, 2006)

BF #1 for 6 months, switched to FF due to thrush issues
BF #2 for 10 months
BF #3 for 13 months.

Sensing a pattern here?

BF was way easier! Hated the bottles, the cleaning, the preparing. Loved that no one else could feed the baby - gave me much needed baby time when there were toddlers/preschoolers in the family as well. And, frankly, I am cheap. Pay for something I can do better myself? Not my style.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

With regards to sterilizing, some areas/countries have conditions that make this very necessary. Even bottled water sometimes is contaminated and could cause parasitic/bacterial gastroenteritis in infants/babies.


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## dflanag2 (Oct 4, 2005)

Before I had my first child I did some math and set the expectation to myself that in the beginning, I would be spending at least 8 hours per day nursing my newborn. I told myself that was my full time job. I think a lot of mother's don't realize exactly how much time it takes to take care of a new baby.

If you are fortunate to have an easygoing non-fussy child, you are still spending hours a day establishing the nursing relationship, changing diapers, etc. and then you have your self care after childbirth: healing, drinking, eating, sleeping, bathing, etc. all while getting used to a huge life changing event (if it's your first child) AND doing all this with people all around you wanting to hold the baby and to give you bad advice, rather than doing all the cooking, laundry, and cleaning stuff that you as the new mother who just gave birth should NOT be doing!!!

The fact is, you have to learn to take care of your baby, and one of the things you have to learn to do is breastfeed. I agree that a lot of women switch to formula because they receive bad support/information from doctors and hospitals; I also think many women have expectations that breastfeeding is innate and doesn't have to be learned. It may seem 'difficult' when it takes some time to get set up, but once you learn, you know how to do it for the rest of your life.

I also think that so many women don't make the association between self-care and breastfeeding. I can think of several women I know who just wouldn't let themselves stop cooking, cleaning, and playing hostess to their houseful of guests, and it puts a strain on the nursing relationship, making formula all the more appealing...

-dflanag2
nursed DS until age 3 (mostly weaned now) and DD (12 months) still going strong.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Oh, another thing that would make BF easier for me...
My FF friends would often tell me that whenever their babies get sick, they pretty much will not take anything. Not solids, not milk. So oftentimes they get hospitalized for dehydration.
When my son gets sick, his appetite decreases but he will nurse more.
I'm not sure this applies to all FF'ers though.


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## meggles (Mar 9, 2004)

I think so. But I didn't have any problems breastfeeding.


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## ananas (Jun 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
No the long term consequences are not worth it at all.

But that's one of our goals as parents, isn't it? To do things that will absolutely benefit our children in the long run, even if they seem a little bit harder right now? Parent's aren't done raising their kids when they're babies- those babies will turn into toddlers who turn into children who turn into teenagers who turn into adults, and our goal should be to raise happy, healthy people, who will be happy and healthy their whole life.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 

*So if breastfeeding is so much easier, then why do people switch to expensive formulas?
*


Because they think there's medical reasons involved ("I didn't make enough milk", "He was allergic to my milk"). Because all of their friends formula feed and they feel funny being the one breastfeeding. Because they can formula feed in public without weird looks, without getting shunned, without being asked to leave restaurants. Because in the beginning, breastfeeding is hard and they weren't prepared for that, and had no idea how wearing it would be on their body and how painful the first few weeks. Because people invent products to cover-up a breastfeeding baby, giving people the idea that breastfeeding is dirty and shameful. Because our culture is ignorant about breastfeeding. Need I go on?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ksera05* 
Actually, I think someone did a study awhile ago that showed that something like 80% of American parents cosleep at least a few times with their infants - it's just not talked about because it's "shameful".

Yup. My ex-sister-in-law, the most mainstream person I know (and dare I say it, but selfish also) brought her first child to bed because it was easier on her. She then brought her second child to bed with her. 4 and 6 years later, they're still in bed with her. But would she tell anyone this? No, because co-sleeping is "shameful". That's how people view it.


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## ABand3 (May 21, 2005)

Dubfam, I think part of the disconnect about FF seeming to be easier to 'mainstream' folks is how different people are going to define easy. It's all about your goals and values regarding your time. If you are eager to get a feeding done with so you can put baby down and go do something else, yes, 5 minutes of formula will seem easier than 30 minutes of breast. But if you're happy to sit with your children for hours at a time, then what does it matter if you nurse for 30 minutes or 5 minutes. I think there is an underlying reason that breastfeeding takes the time it does - perhaps we are meant to slow down, relax, be ok with sitting on the couch for 30 minutes. Maybe being still and quiet is important. Our society values multi-tasking, checking off a to do list, being busy, so if those are your values 5 minutes of formula will be easier. But if you value time to be still and quiet with your children, time to relax and enjoy the moment rather than stressing over what you're not doing then 30 minutes every two hours feels just right.

This is not to say that I've never felt anxious about getting on to the next thing while nursing, I have. But overall, I treasure the time I've spent learning to be still and quiet in body and mind, and everyone in my house has learned patience.

And some babies will take 30 minutes to nurse, some more, but 2 of my 3 were more efficient, 15-20 minutes.

I've nursed three children for two or more years each; still nursing my 27 m.o, and I've never had to use formula with any of them.


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

As a former FF mom (due to adoption) the "BF because it's easier" argument bothers me.

First of all I want to say that I'm a strong BF advocate, and I think there are many many very good reasons to BF. However, I think that if a mother is convinced to BF by the "easier" argument and then runs into complications (low supply, mastitis, poor latch, tongue tie, etc . . . ) in the first few weeks she's likely to question the "easier" argument and change her mind. On the other hand arguments that deal with the fact that BF is healthier are true in every case.

Also, some of the arguments people give about why FF is hard make no sense to me -- sterilizing the bottles -- um the dishwasher does that, you just rinse the stuff and stick it in, it's no more difficult than washing the glasses I use. Heating the formula -- my DS took it straight from the fridge by 4 weeks, but if your DC doesn't like it you can mix it with warm water. Getting up to go to the fridge -- I just kept it in a cooler with an ice pack. If your child likes it warm you just put the bottles with the powder by your bed and add some warm water from a thermos (also by your bed) It takes 15 seconds and doesn't require going anywhere.

I am sure that in an ideal situation (no pumping, no medical issues, baby has a good latch, mom has time to devote to BF) BF can be easier -- but why not use an argument that applies to all families, rather than a select few.


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## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

Wow, you know, I can't even use the word "easy" as a GOOD thing unless we're talking about the night-feedings... if I'd never BF, I'd never know the absolute joy and pride a mother feels feeding her child with her own milk. Perhaps a better word would be "convenience" because from what I hear from most mothers (my friends) who switch from milk to formula, there is nothing "easy" about the decision or living with it afterwards. I guess looking at the (possible) _convenience_ of FF would make that decision a bit easier.


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## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

Hmmm also I guess it bothers me on an emotional level...

Doing the right thing is often less convenient than the "easier" road. Whether or not BF is "easier"/convenient, it remains the RIGHT thing to do, or to TRY ones utmost best to do, so comparing FF or BF in terms of convenience bothers me. CIO is definitely more convenient (stick the baby in a seperate room, try using loud music to drown out the pleas) than cradling/rocking a colicky babe for hours, yet we have no threads on MDC comparing CIO vs. AP.

That's just my personal bias, though. I started out with SERIOUS issues BF, and I'm glad I stuck with it. In that regard, I suppose I see the point of making mothers aware that there are definitely difficulties for some. It does make some mothers feel like failures. However, is it dangerous to entertain even more "bad press" about BF? Or is it more dangerous to not be as open about the occasional inconvenience of BF? (PS I am totally not minimizing anyone's serious, medical problems with BF - I've lived it, it's draining to say the least)


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momily* 
Also, some of the arguments people give about why FF is hard make no sense to me -- sterilizing the bottles -- um the dishwasher does that, you just rinse the stuff and stick it in, it's no more difficult than washing the glasses I use.

.
.
.

I am sure that in an ideal situation (no pumping, no medical issues, baby has a good latch, mom has time to devote to BF) BF can be easier -- but why not use an argument that applies to all families, rather than a select few.

Well, not necessarily because not everyone has a dishwasher. And it's very hard to use an argument that applies to all families because not all families are the same. Different lifestyles. AP families or not? Living in the United States? Which demographic? etc etc


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MilkTrance* 
However, is it dangerous to entertain even more "bad press" about BF? Or is it more dangerous to not be as open about the occasional inconvenience of BF? (PS I am totally not minimizing anyone's serious, medical problems with BF - I've lived it, it's draining to say the least)

That's a very good point. Prior to myself breastfeeding, I did not know of anybody else who did (not my mother, my sisters or my friends) so I relied a lot on breastfeeding books. It would have been nice to know that there would be some discomfort associated with breastfeeding as opposed to what's written in books where PAIN=BAD LATCH all the time. Sometimes even with a good latch there could be some discomfort. So it gets worrisome when you're doing pretty much everything right yet there's that feeling. It gets a little discouraging sometimes. KWIM?
But yeah, striking that balance between informing and intimidating might be a difficult thing to achieve too.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momily* 
I am sure that in an ideal situation (no pumping, no medical issues, baby has a good latch, mom has time to devote to BF) BF can be easier -- but why not use an argument that applies to all families, rather than a select few.

It's misleading to imply that only a "select few" mothers can breastfeed easily--the majority of breastfeeding mothers do not experience problems.


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## Clarinet (Nov 3, 2005)

I still maintain that logics defies the "formula feeding is easier" argument. Breasts are quite difficult to forget at home. They come in easy open packaging, no mixing and heating required, no special washing (whether sterilizing, dishwasher washing or sink washing), no cooling containers. There's never any worry about running out and having to go to the store for more. Everything about formula feeding may not be _difficult_, but almost all of it you simply don't have to do while breastfeeding. The only "it's easier" argument that still stands is the fact that the mother doesn't have to feed her baby. She may choose to do it but she can easily pass off the baby into the hands of anyone else, or set the baby in a carrier/stroller with a propped bottle. (NOT saying anyone here is doing that but the point is, it's possible with no additional work, compared with breastfeeding which would require pumping)


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

For me I have never FF (dd got some in hospital for jaundice but I didnt give her the bottle couldnt handle seeing in in her mouth) I cant imagine it being easier to FF simply because for me all I had to do was lift shirt latch baby and sit and watch tv







no getting up to mix no bottles and nipples to keep clean etc.


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## laohaire (Nov 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momily* 
Also, some of the arguments people give about why FF is hard make no sense to me -- sterilizing the bottles -- um the dishwasher does that, you just rinse the stuff and stick it in, it's no more difficult than washing the glasses I use.

Um, not everyone has a dishwasher? Is this some elitist thing? I don't mind the suggestion, but the sarcasm was a little unnecessary. Obviously if someone has a dishwasher (and in working order), it will probably occur to them to put the bottle in it. If you're reading posts by mamas who are washing by hand, did you really think that they had a dishwasher and just never thought about using it?


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

I've done exclusive formula-feeding and exclusive breastfeeding. I found that BFing is infinitely easier and less complicated, and it allows so much more freedom to go and do things with baby, take long trips, etc. I would never ever go back to formula feeding, even if they invented a perfect formula.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
Um, not everyone has a dishwasher? Is this some elitist thing? I don't mind the suggestion, but the sarcasm was a little unnecessary. Obviously if someone has a dishwasher (and in working order), it will probably occur to them to put the bottle in it. If you're reading posts by mamas who are washing by hand, did you really think that they had a dishwasher and just never thought about using it?

No doubt. Even when I had a dishwasher when I had ds, it didn't always work. I lived in a ratty apartment and was lucky to have it...but it didn't work. I don't have hundreds of dollars to fix a worthless dishwasher.

I don't see the argument that ff is easy as being valid for a lot of people. I found it very hard. I wasn't used to bottles, we had to switch formulas a number of times, ds had more health issues, washing bottles was a PIA, as was finding the money to pay for the formula, make sure you had all your supplies even for a quick step out, and worrying about the quality of water in the bottle.

BF is not a cake walk for a lot of people-I went through many a week of bleeding, deathly painful nipples straight from h$!!, but that was nothing compared to the alternative.


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## hipmummy (May 25, 2007)

I 100% Disagree. I was a nanny for fifteen years and had to feed more then twenty babies formula. It is NOT easier. It is expensive,you haveto dive to the store to get it,you always have to think about,you have to carry it,prepare it,store, clean and sterilize the bottles,ditto,the nipples,baby is not nearly as healthy as a breastfed baby,It smells like death,it tastes like death, it looks like death,It ruins everything in comes in contact with.
As a mom who has ebf for over 12 months and WAHm who has had infants unde my care, it is soooooo much easierr breastfeeding

1.Breast Baby Hungry put it to breast

2.Formula Fed baby: Oh your hungry hold on while I rinse you bottle, warm the filtered water mix the formula,shake the bottle,check the temp, put a bib in you cover myself and the furniture because of the evil staining powers and now that you are screaming bloody murder you can eat. Then you can spit it up all over me because you are eating too much at once. Then I will finish by cleaning a poop that no baby should do. Oh yah formula is so much easier.


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

I never put the bottles in the dishwasher. I didn't want soap or whatever residue left on them. Again, I had medical worries wrt my son, but I sterilized the bottles for 6 months. That's what I was told to do, so I did it.

Also, you need to make sure your dishwasher gets hot enough to sterilize. I didn't have a thermometer that I could check that out...

And I warmed up the bottles as a kindness to DS. I was also nursing part-time and pumping and I wanted to recreate the nursing experience as much as possible.

It took me WAY longer than 5 minutes to feed DS his bottle. He nursed much more efficiently, when he did nurse at all.


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## dentmom3 (Aug 10, 2006)

Seeing posts about the ease of FF when there are bottles with measured formula by the nightstand, and a thermos of warm water as well, and that washing the bottles is no problem makes me laugh a little. I guess I am lazy, but when I go to bed, I just want to shut off the light and sleep. Seems like a lot more effort to do all of the above, than to lift my shirt in the middle of the night and roll to one side. No need to take up dishwasher space with my breasts either!









And as for leaving the house. All I had to remember for at least the first six months, maybe longer, was to have the baby with me! (which with my wild bunch was about all I could manage)

You can use language to make FFing sound as easy as possible, but I still don't think there is anything easier than open mouth, insert breast.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hipmummy* 

2.Formula Fed baby: Oh your hungry hold on while I rinse you bottle, warm the filtered water mix the formula,shake the bottle,check the temp, put a bib in you cover myself and the furniture because of the evil staining powers and now that you are screaming bloody murder you can eat. Then you can spit it up all over me because you are eating too much at once. Then I will finish by cleaning a poop that no baby should do. Oh yah formula is so much easier.

I never experienced anything like what you are describing. My son puked up breastmilk way more than the Goats Milk. I think a lot of it has to do with the quality of the formula you are supplementing with.
Goats Milk doesn't mess up a baby's tummy the same way cow or soy milk does.

But I cannot imagine watching a baby go through what you described. That is so sad. I bet a lot of people who FF don't realize that isn't normal.







:


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dentmom3* 
Seeing posts about the ease of FF when there are bottles with measured formula by the nightstand, and a thermos of warm water as well, and that washing the bottles is no problem makes me laugh a little. I guess I am lazy, but when I go to bed, I just want to shut off the light and sleep. Seems like a lot more effort to do all of the above, than to lift my shirt in the middle of the night and roll to one side. No need to take up dishwasher space with my breasts either!









And as for leaving the house. All I had to remember for at least the first six months, maybe longer, was to have the baby with me! (which with my wild bunch was about all I could manage)

You can use language to make FFing sound as easy as possible, but I still don't think there is anything easier than open mouth, insert breast.

And you know this because you have done both? Or are you just speculating?

It really is interesting how many people here who have only breastfed insist there is no way formula could be more convenient.

And for many women it is much more than Lift Shirt, Insert Breast. If it were that easy everyone would do it.

I personally had TONS of problems. I thankfully had support and that is the only reason I was able to BF for 5 months. I have talked to many women over the years who had similar experiences to mine.
I just don't think it is honest to present breastfeeding as being the easiest thing you could do.

We used the Avent Bag bottles so we didn't really have to wash much except the nipples, and that took maybe a couple minutes out of my day.

And I will say again that I don't think that ppl should FF out of convenience (I am not talking about needing to work etc.)
I am just trying to point out that for many women FF is easier, and I think that is why many women switch to formula or just never try to BF in the first place.

Hey, for some people bringing a bottle with you or mixing things is a nightmare. That's cool too. I am in no way trying to argue in favor FFing or say that it is better than/or as good as Bfing.


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## TypingMJ (Nov 10, 2005)

I think that breastfeeding has become a luxury that a lot of people can't afford, or at least think they can't afford. Mothers who work full time aren't returning to a breastfeeding-friendly environment. Pumping can be difficult, and many employers only tolerate pumping at work grudgingly.

People will continue to see formula as the "easier" option if society continues to treat breastfeeding as a wasteful and near-shameful activity. Time is money, and boobs are dirty, don't you know?









I feel lucky that my work has allowed me the flexibility to exclusively breastfeed my son, but I completely understand why some would choose to use formula because it is easier for them. I wish that our society was such that breastfeeding was not only the best and natural choice, but also truly easier for everyone to do.


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

I was 20 when I had dd. I had every nursing problem imaginable... and by the end of the first week, my nipples were literally torn to shreds, bleeding, and had literal rips in the sides of them. It took me three months to be able to nurse without crying hysterically through every nursing session.

And not once did I ever even entertain the notion of giving my child formula.

I was even told by a doctor when I developed mastitis that I couldn't feed her from my breast or I could give her "septicemia". I looked him in the eye and latched the baby on, anyway. He ran out into the hall to tell the other doctor that I was making my baby sick.







: Unlike him, I had read every breastfeeding book I could get my hands on. I knew, at the age of 20, more than the doctors at the hospital and I told them so.

Ignorance is no excuse.

Anyway, after that initial period of suffering, it was sooooo much easier. We never even had to wake up to nurse.... a lot of times, she would latch on to me when we were both half- or fully asleep and never even had to wake up. When I began working, I pumped a few times a day in the back room. I didn't have to deal with bottles and thawing and rinsing and washing. My ex did.

It also depends on how you define "convenience". If you expand that definition to include all the INconveniences due to ff - such as more illnesses, doctor visits, upset tummies, screaming fits, needing to wake up to feed, missed work hours due to your child's illness, more health and medical problems as the child gets older that you need to deal with that could have otherwise been avoided - well, if you expand the inconveniences to include all the repercussions of not bf'ing, it is soooooooooooooooo much more inconvenient.


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## lml41981 (Jun 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
(And what are people talking about "warming" a bottle? Don't you just use warm tap water?)

You shouldn't. Even the American Dental Association has issued a statement saying that infants shouldn't have formula mixed with tap water. You should use bottled water that is free of fluoride (and chlorine and all the other nasty stuff that is put in tap water).

My kiddo has never had formula. I guess breastfeeding was just too easy...never felt the need to add bottle-washing, measuring, mixing, warming, etc. to the mix. Never had to worry about timing my trips out to make sure that I had enough formula with me if we got tied up unexpectedly.

As far as the formula = Kraft argument...Goat's milk may not be like Kraft...Perhaps Similac is the Kraft of the formula world. Goat's milk would be like Annie's Mac-n-Cheese. Better than Kraft, but still not a very good thing to eat everyday if you can help it.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

Quote:

It really is interesting how many people here who have only breastfed insist there is no way formula could be more convenient.
ditto that...

I ff my first and I he didnt scream bloody murder any more than my bf babies. I never had to have him wait - I had formula mixed ahead of time and just as with my bf babies I could more or less predict when he would want to eat. Moreso in fact than my bf babies. And I never had to cover myself and the furniture I was sitting on - thats just silly. And there were never complicated mathemetics involved in determining how much formula we would need for a day out.

For SOME FF IS easier and for SOME BF IS easier and those can even change situationally - sure FF is easier if mom wants to go out for the day - just hand off the baby. And BF is easier at nighttime IMO.

Either way I simply dont see how someone who hasnt done both can even answer. Because nothing is ever as we think it would be.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
*I just think it is silly not to acknowledge that there are MANY things about formula feeding that make it much easier for the mom.

That is why a lot of people switch to formula...because they are overwhelmed and it is sooo much easier than breastfeeding.

*​
*
*​
​*
BTDT- It's not easier in any way, imo. Nothing about it.

I wonder if it's ever occurred to you that it may not be the most healthy thing for a baby to suck back that much milk in 5 minutes?

I wonder why it's such a big deal that Dad can feed the baby? Why can't dad just do all the other stuff? Fair enough.

I also disagree on your other point that I quoted. People switch to formula for lost of reasons, ease not being at the top of the list. Laziness, misinformation, poor education, social pressure and working situations are much more common reasons.

Personally I think that if anyone switched thinking i'd be easier, they'd be sorely disappointed. First because it's not easier. Second because it's not free and third because most good mothers don't feel swell about cheating their child out of proper nourishment for convenience sake.*​


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

By the way, I've FF, pumped and bottle fed and exclusively breastfed.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
.
he digested the Goat's milk much easier than my breast milk.
.

I have to wonder how on earth you know that?


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
It really is interesting how many people here who have only breastfed insist there is no way formula could be more convenient.

Again, I have exclusively formula-fed and exclusively breastfed and found breastfeeding to be far, far easier and less complicated. And this is after bawling my eyes out for two weeks because BFing was so painful for me in the beginning. Still I say that breastfeeding is so. much. easier.

Also, I don't know what kind of super flow nipples you have to have for a baby to finish a bottle in 5 minutes, but my extremely-insanely-constantly hungry first child took at least 20 minutes to finish a bottle, and that was with his supersonic x-force sucking going on.


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## Jen_in_NH (Jul 16, 2007)

I tried to breastfeed for 2 months before switching to formula. Personally, I think the formula is certainly easier. But, BFing was a disaster for us, so I may have a slightly biased opinion







I think if we had been able to BF, once we got the hang of it, it would have been fairly easy too. I don't know about overnight feedings - my husband always gave him a bottle while I pumped.

I honestly wish someone had mentioned that BFing is difficult before my son was born. When it didn't come easily, I was blown away, and really didn't have a clue what to do. I think if I'd known ahead of time, I would have had some ideas about what to try next.

Just my thoughts...

Jen


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 

I had to switch to formula when DS was 5 months old.

That's your answer. You switched right when he was getting more effiecient and quicker, when your breasts were about to stop leaking, when he was about to start going longer between feeds.

Essentially you have the worst of both worlds, you did the hard patch of breastfeeding (made harder because it wasn't going smoothly for you, whereas most people are over the hard bit by six weeks), and then switched to the organisational and time consuming hassles of formula feeding.

I've cared for formula fed babies, and let me tell you that the washing up alone is a pain in the ARSE! let alone having to be home soon because you only brought one bottle, or they only took a bit of the bottle and will be hungry sooner than you thought, and you can't reuse the bottle.

I hope it goes better for you next time and you can then understand what we're telling you.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:

But if it isn't easier then why do women switch to formula when there aren't medical reasons?
Ignorance, stupidity?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MilkTrance* 
Hmmm also I guess it bothers me on an emotional level...

Doing the right thing is often less convenient than the "easier" road. Whether or not BF is "easier"/convenient, it remains the RIGHT thing to do, or to TRY ones utmost best to do, so comparing FF or BF in terms of convenience bothers me. CIO is definitely more convenient (stick the baby in a seperate room, try using loud music to drown out the pleas) than cradling/rocking a colicky babe for hours, yet we have no threads on MDC comparing CIO vs. AP.

Oh, yes, very good point.

but I don't know who these people are who've never heard a BFing horror story! It seems the moment I started showing everyone had to come and tell me how much their nipples bled







But it did give me a boost, to see the first weeks journal of a friend who'd had severely inverted nipples - she'd recorded mls pumped, finger fed, wet nappies, weights, etc. And she'd gone on to pump at work for over a year and BF for two. So I figured if she could do that, I could, too.


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## txbikegrrl (Jul 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VernaBloom* 
I think that breastfeeding has become a luxury that a lot of people can't afford, or at least think they can't afford. Mothers who work full time aren't returning to a breastfeeding-friendly environment. Pumping can be difficult, and many employers only tolerate pumping at work grudgingly.

People will continue to see formula as the "easier" option if society continues to treat breastfeeding as a wasteful and near-shameful activity. Time is money, and boobs are dirty, don't you know?









I feel lucky that my work has allowed me the flexibility to exclusively breastfeed my son, but I completely understand why some would choose to use formula because it is easier for them. I wish that our society was such that breastfeeding was not only the best and natural choice, but also truly easier for everyone to do.


I totally agree. BF is extremely difficult for me and although I'm still doing it at 4 months the likelihood that I'll make it to a year is very low because I have no way to alter my work environment to be able to pump more than once when away from DS all day -- and I have to pump in my car during lunch.

I didn't/don't expect motherhood to be easy so I have no problem "sacrificing" for the benefit of my baby. However, when I can no longer pump in the car (which will happen eventually, for a variety of reasons) and DS is no longer feeding as often from me and my supply dips then I'll have to supplement because we NEED my income to survive.


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## MaryJaneLouise (Jul 26, 2005)

I think it depends entirely on your circumstances. WOHM probably have it "harder" to BF since they have to pump AND wash bottles & deal with the early difficult days. Most SAHM _Probaby_ have it "easier" to BF since they have little one with them 24/7.

Thos of us with BF challenges (especially low supply) , or who exclusively pump, find BF much much harder than FF.

I totally agree that BF classes and such should warn people that BF might be harder, but that it is worth it.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dentmom3* 
Seeing posts about the ease of FF when there are bottles with measured formula by the nightstand, and a thermos of warm water as well, and that washing the bottles is no problem makes me laugh a little. I guess I am lazy, but when I go to bed, I just want to shut off the light and sleep. Seems like a lot more effort to do all of the above, than to lift my shirt in the middle of the night and roll to one side.

Yeah, I pumped after every feed for a few weeks, and at night there was nothing I wanted to do LESS than rinse off the pump stuff.

And even now, with a two year old who's having cow's milk, it's such a PITA! You can't leave it out, you pour too much and it goes to waste, things need to be rinsed soon after use because they'll sour, cups need scrubbing, etc, etc. Not to mention remembering to make sure you don't run out.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
And for many women it is much more than Lift Shirt, Insert Breast. If it were that easy everyone would do it.

Formula company propaganda tells us ff is the easiest thing you can do.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
I just don't think it is honest to present breastfeeding as being the easiest thing you could do.

But it _is_ the truth for most people.


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## M2Mommie (Sep 28, 2007)

Wow.....I just found this forum and was browsing around and saw this thread. I am a mom who did both. Sorry but for me personally there is no comparison whatsoever. Formula was ten billion times easier for me. I wanted more than anything to nurse my babies and I kept at it for a few months the first time and a few weeks the second time.

I couldn't manage with the excruciating pain - I suffered from reynaud's, vasospams, sore, cracked nipples, and plugged ducts like crazy. (Not to mention misdiagnosed thrush and true low milk supply with my first baby). I was in such pain I could not hold my toddler close to me. She was going through a confusing time with the new baby being home, and she really needed her mommy. Not being able to cuddle with her was terrible.

Did I seek help? Yes I spent hundreds of dollars on private Lactation Consultant appointments. I pumped milk, I tried the SNS, I tried nipple shields, I used Lansinoh, I let my nipples air dry, I went to my OB to get treatment for Reynaud's... which they refused to treat me for.

It's easy to say "Oh yeah, I just lift my shirt and nurse." Well sorry to tell you but the reality check is it's just not that easy for most mothers (mothers who no doubt do not visit this website!). If it were, a much higher percentage of moms would be nursing at 6 months. The reality is, nursing is very challenging for most moms in the beginning.

I spend FIVE minutes mixing a day's worth of formula every morning and put the bottles in the fridge. When the baby is hungry, I get one. I don't heat it up. I put the dirty bottle in the dishwasher. There is no breast pain 24/7. I don't have to use BOTH hands and 3 pillows to support my baby while I'm nursing after I spent a few tries getting her latched on correctly. The baby sleeps better and I sleep better which if you ask me a well rested mom is a better mom. My kids aren't sickly and they never have been.

The thing I really don't understand is why anyone gives a rat's arse how I feed my child. I guess I won't be hanging around here much because I don't need such condescending crap cluttering up my day. Holy cow women.. get a grip!


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## dentmom3 (Aug 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
And you know this because you have done both? Or are you just speculating?

Done both. BF DD for 6 months and then switched to FF for the next six. BF DS for 10 months and then switched. BF DS #2 for 13 months.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
It really is interesting how many people here who have only breastfed insist there is no way formula could be more convenient.

And for many women it is much more than Lift Shirt, Insert Breast. If it were that easy everyone would do it.

I personally had TONS of problems. I thankfully had support and that is the only reason I was able to BF for 5 months. I have talked to many women over the years who had similar experiences to mine.
I just don't think it is honest to present breastfeeding as being the easiest thing you could do.

I had thrush for 3 months with DD. Tried diet changes, suplements, gentian violet too. Got thrush again with #2 and went on diflucan and had no more probs (I know some moms wouldn't want to take a presecription med for it but it worked for us and we had a great nursing relationship for several months longer)

DS2 had a terrible latch and jaundice which required every other day blood tests and checks with the ped for color. Also a false alarm that sent us to the ER which turned out to be a bad blood draw. The whole time (his first two weeks) our (old) ped kept telling me to supplement. He is a perfectly healthy thirteen month old now.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
And I will say again that I don't think that ppl should FF out of convenience (I am not talking about needing to work etc.)
I am just trying to point out that for many women FF is easier, and I think that is why many women switch to formula or just never try to BF in the first place.

I have been a working and pumping mom with all three, so I don't think that needing to work = FF. I understand that pumping is not easy or workable for all women, but I don't think that it is a given that you need to use formula if you work. And I have dealt with pumping in rooms that don't lock, in my car at conventions, in a booth at the Javitts center in NY for a four day business trip.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Hey, for some people bringing a bottle with you or mixing things is a nightmare. That's cool too. I am in no way trying to argue in favor FFing or say that it is better than/or as good as Bfing.

This thread was looking for opinions/experiences. *In my experiences with 3 children and having BF and FF them it is my opinion that BF is far easier.* I think the prevailing opinion that BFing is so hard is propaganda that is out there in pamphlets on Breastfeeding Tips which are written by formula companies and set breastfeeding up like this giant hurdle to be cleared rather than the norm.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

I think it depends on your experience.
For me I FF my 1st. BF 2, 3, & 4 and I'm transitioning #4 over to FF due to FTT which I have in detail else where here.
My only EASY bfing experience was my 3rd. It was everything it should have been. My 2nd was a nightmare and I was too stubborn to not bf. My 4th has been a roller coaster event and really has been no fun from the start with his short little tongue.
I've been having to carry around a pump and all that since July, so moving over to just bottles will be a dream once we get there.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *M2Mommie* 
Formula was ten billion times easier for me.....

I suffered from reynaud's, vasospams, sore, cracked nipples, and plugged ducts like crazy. (Not to mention misdiagnosed thrush and true low milk supply with my first baby).

Well sorry to tell you but the reality check is it's just not that easy for most mothers

You yourself listed the very real reasons you struggled with nursing. No one is negating that those reasons are real and hard. However, the truth is that your situation is not that of MOST women. MOST women can nurse with maybe a little trouble in the beginning but _can_ breast feed. I would say that after the first few months, breast feeding is easier than FF for the vast majority of women who are able to nurse exclusively.


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## tinkentinken (May 12, 2007)

I suppose every situation is different. For us, however, feeding formula would be way more troublesome. We like to get out on multi-day trips in the mountains, and I can't imagine having to deal with formula and bottles and sterilizing/cleaning etc out there!
I am so, so grateful to be breastfeeding - true, in the beginning formula would probably have been much "easier" (practically speaking, not emotionally) since we had an extremely hard breastfeeding initiation with 2 severe cases of mastitis, painful blocked ducts every couple of days, yeast, pumping to heal a traumatized nipple etc etc for the first 2 months of what seemed like bare survival. But switching to formula would have cost my child the best nurishment and would have been very upsetting to me emotionally.

I can see that for some families formula feeding could be more "convenient." I think it depends on what your goals and needs are. But I think that some mothers might lose out on the emotional benefits of breastfeeding by judging the "ease" of feeding a child only by the practical breast or formula comparison. For me, nursing is the best meditation and focusing link to my child - no matter what's going on or how stressed out I was, when I'm nursing my little one all the hubbub and bustle of life falls away and I find that wonderful calm focus and love for my child back in centerstage. In this way alone, breastfeeding makes my life far easier and helps me to simplify.


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

I haven't done both (bf only) but it seems as though FF is percieved as easier because it utilizes a skill set that you already *have* (i.e. measuring, pouring, heating, cleaning) while bf utilizes skills that both you *and* baby have to learn in the beginning. My experiences with breastfeeding, once past the initial stuff (sore nips etc.) was extremely easy... and even covering up, back when I was embarrassed about NIP wasn't what I would consider difficult. My dd *never* took to the bottle, though, so my experience w/formula feeding was horrifically difficult. She was screaming, refused to let the bottle touch her lips, etc. not too fun, to say the least. We gave up... it was too hard and we had something that worked well... the FF was just to be a "luxury" so dh, MIL, and whoever could take part in feeding... a few months later dd started solids... they just got to wait.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *M2Mommie* 
The thing I really don't understand is why anyone gives a rat's arse how I feed my child. I guess I won't be hanging around here much because I don't need such condescending crap cluttering up my day. Holy cow women.. get a grip!


I actually don't think anybody gives a rat's ass about how you feed your child. I certainly don't.
It's just that this thread was created for the purpose of discussion which is really what message boards are all about.
I really don't get why this topic seems so highly charged.
Judging from everyone's posts, it IS a case to case basis. Nobody is invalidating your experience whether you had an easier/harder time FF or BF. Maybe the longer you stick to a certain way of feeding, the easier it becomes.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
but I don't know who these people are who've never heard a BFing horror story!


I'm one of those people who've never heard a real BF-ing horror story prior to my breastfeeding experience.
Everybody I know formula fed. And even though my mom and sisters told me how they tried and stopped because it hurt, I didn't take them quite seriously because they only tried for one day. I used to think that they were just being "sissies". I've since changed my mind about that.


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## MilkTrance (Jul 21, 2007)

M2Mommy, I had excrutiating pain, too. We're talking crying, toe-curling, I don't-want-to-nurse-ever-again type pain. I was depressed, felt like a failure, wondered "why me" when other moms had it so "easy." Then after a couple months or so, the pain went away. Then I got Mastitis!

So please don't assume that anyone who is a BF advocate has not experienced troubles with BF. I am proud of myself for working through my problems. It is one of the hardest things I've ever done.

And as for caring how other moms feed their babies, well, some people really, really love babies and really, really believe in breastfeeding.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
I also could not sleep will bfing...I my breasts were a size H and we had to get out of bed to nurse.
So for me FFing meant that I could stay in bed.









Mine are at least that big and I nurse in bed. I have an advantage over smaller moms, I don't need to move him at all, I can nurse him from both with him on one side of me, I just need to roll over a bit. lol

When ds 2 was about 6 weeks old, I had to go on a long trip with my mother and sister, who gave lip service to making sure ds was taken care of. I had to buy a pump and make sure I had bottles for the trip, because neither of them were willing to stop for me to nurse him, or even comfort him. Even with having to try to clean a pump and bottles, it was still easier because at least I could nurse him when we weren't driving. I *hated* cleaning bottles and sterilizing.

And just for the record, I've had nursing problems with both boys (ds1 refused to nurse without a nipple shield, for the whole 32 months I nursed him & ds2 had an extremely bad tongue tie for several weeks and couldn't latch without the shield, luckily I was able to get rid of it with him)and I can't sleep while nursing and you still couldn't pay me enough to ff.


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## ananas (Jun 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
My son puked up breastmilk way more than the Goats Milk. I think a lot of it has to do with the quality of the formula you are supplementing with.

I actually had to check to see if I was still on MDC.







:

There is *no* good formula. There is no formula that is anywhere NEAR breastmilk in terms of quality.

Could there have been a reason he was puking up the breastmilk that you didn't look into? An allergy? Perhaps he was sensitive to dairy or wheat or any other food?


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## gassadi (Dec 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KellMcK* 
Speaking as a mom who was able to breastfeed for a while but switched to formula (not going to go into my story here - that's not the point) - I feel that breastfeeding would have been much more convenient:
- can feed wherever, whenever, don't need to wonder if you packed all your feeding supplies in the diaper bag
- you don't have to worry about when you're going to run out, or where to buy on sale, who's got it on sale, and do I have a coupon somewhere?
- there are nipples to wash but it's no big deal since you're in the shower anyway








- no having to make bottles!

I really think that breastfeeding is way more convenient than formula feeding.

I second all of this.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ananas* 
There is *no* good formula. There is no formula that is anywhere NEAR breastmilk in terms of quality.

Could there have been a reason he was puking up the breastmilk that you didn't look into? An allergy? Perhaps he was sensitive to dairy or wheat or any other food?

It's for another thread, however, I will state that sometimes despite the best effort of the mother, the baby is still reacting to bm. I learned something new, it wasn't what I was eating, it was what I was not eating or taking -- Enzymes and Probiotics and making my milk more acidic believe it or not to ease the reflux. However, he is still failure to thrive, despite my DF,GF diet. I've held off FF, against docs advice, I found a doc to support pumping and fortifying bm to give him more calories. Despite that, he is still FTT and not meeting milestones, something is terribly wrong. I'm still not convienced weaning him is the best solution, but he is running out of time and needs nourishment.

In addition to the above, I have come to realize there comes a point where a choice might need to be made for some mothers -- breastmilk or actually living a life. I have neglected my house, my other 3 children and my dh since the dx of FTT. Plus I lost my milk supply in this ordeal due to his not wanting to nurse and I didn't realize he was not nursing the way he should. So, I've been trying to re-establish my milk supply which was going well until I ran out of DOM, then my supply fell again and I have not been able to restore it.

This entire experience has given me a more accepting attitude of formula feeding. I never wanted to FF my first, I simply could not (long story, but I didn't get any help from the hospital LC and it was probably as easy as tongue tied - no engorgement ever happened, no milk came in, nothing, it's like I never even had the baby other than my c/s scar and terrible ordeal with that). So, from a stubborn will not let FF touch the lips of my children to accepting Formula as a medical necessity -- I've changed.

Until you walk in the other woman's shoes, you can not judge her PERIOD.


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## littlemizflava (Oct 8, 2006)

when i am going out for a few hours i dont take a bag unless i need to use it for the things i buy i dont think about taking a diaper or wipes nothing pick up baby get dd and gone no botles no nothing dont matter if i am late i dont worry about hunger food is always warm fresh and ready ohhh ya how i love cd's







:









i ff my foster ds bf my 2 never change to ff ever with my dd was clw before she was ready i had to end up giving her bottles from 17.5m to 3.5y wish i knew about mdc then i would of known how to get her back bfing it was a royal pain to be getting up min.3X a night to make her a bottle cleaning them thiking ahead umm we are going out for X hours i will need X bottles and god forbid you are out past the last bottle and if you get stuck somewhere and cant make it home it is stressful the worst time was when we had no power for 2 days now with my ds power outages was a brease his food never spoiled never worried about the water cleaning nothing at all "just lift 2 feed" now lets get to cost no matter what form of ff you chose it still costs money to buy it then nipples, bottles and brushes the time to clean them always thinking ahead making sure you dont run out of anything


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## CaraboosMama (Mar 31, 2005)

I personally think breastfeeding is easier for many reasons already stated. But I thought I'd mention another reson I think moms feel pressure (or the desire to )switch to formula in the US.

Our society prizes independence over attachment. Needing someone else is seen as a weakness. I believe on some level - maybe not even a conscious one - many women feel like there is something weak or unhealthy about encouraging their children to be physically & emotionally attached in the way that occurs with breastfeeding. Which is not only untrue (obviously to anyone @ MDC







) but is also very very sad









Please don't misunderstand - I am NOT saying that ff moms are never AP - I am saying that moms who instantly graviate towards bottles and formula rather than nursing may be falling into this sad part of the american mindset.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ananas* 
I actually had to check to see if I was still on MDC.







:

There is *no* good formula. There is no formula that is anywhere NEAR breastmilk in terms of quality.

Could there have been a reason he was puking up the breastmilk that you didn't look into? An allergy? Perhaps he was sensitive to dairy or wheat or any other food?

Goats milk is actually VERY similar to human breast milk. I was Using Fresh Goats milk that was supplemented with flax seed oil and vitamins. No, not as good as breast milk, but a heck of a lot closer than any commercial formula you can buy.

Believe me, by the time we switched to formula I was eating about 5 foods. We were trying everything. Eventually I gave up when he had FTT and was down to his 4 week weight at 5 months of age. Trust me, we tried to figure it out.

I can't believe how rude some of the posts are getting about formula. There are a lot of people who don't have a choice. This thread was going along nicely, but I think it is starting to get ugly.

I think that some women can't even hear the word "formula" w/out flying into a rage.


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grumpybear* 
Well, not necessarily because not everyone has a dishwasher. And it's very hard to use an argument that applies to all families because not all families are the same. Different lifestyles. AP families or not? Living in the United States? Which demographic? etc etc

I agree with you that the answer for this is not the same for every family -- some families have issues that make FF more difficult -- no dishwasher, no running water, no money (if you have to work OT to pay for the formula that's certainly not easy), etc . . .

Similarly, some families have issues that make BF particularly difficult -- work committments, multiple infants, babies with problems like tongue tie or dysphagia, mothers with issues like thrush, mastitis, oversupply, undersupply etc . . .

I am a big believer in BF, but I worry that when expectant/new mothers are told "BF because it's easier" they'll quit when it isn't easier -- and while BF may be easier for most mothers in the long run, it isn't always easy in the beginning when most moms are making the decision.

On the other hand, if a mom is told -- BF, it's healthier for your baby, that's almost guaranteed to be true (barring a few conditions like galactosemia), and it may give her the motivation to persevere through hard times.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
I can't believe how rude some of the posts are getting about formula. There are a lot of people who don't have a choice. This thread was going along nicely, but I think it is starting to get ugly.


Disagreeing with you doesn't = getting ugly. As I said, I've FF and lived to regret it. It's just so old hearing people say things like "lots of people don't have a choice". Yes, lots of people DO. Very FEW people do not.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *littlemizflava* 
when i am going out for a few hours i dont take a bag unless i need to use it for the things i buy i dont think about taking a diaper or wipes nothing pick up baby get dd and gone no botles no nothing dont matter if i am late i dont worry about hunger food is always warm fresh and ready ohhh ya how i love cd's







:









i ff my foster ds bf my 2 never change to ff ever with my dd was clw before she was ready i had to end up giving her bottles from 17.5m to 3.5y wish i knew about mdc then i would of known how to get her back bfing it was a royal pain to be getting up min.3X a night to make her a bottle cleaning them thiking ahead umm we are going out for X hours i will need X bottles and god forbid you are out past the last bottle and if you get stuck somewhere and cant make it home it is stressful the worst time was when we had no power for 2 days now with my ds power outages was a brease his food never spoiled never worried about the water cleaning nothing at all "just lift 2 feed" now lets get to cost no matter what form of ff you chose it still costs money to buy it then nipples, bottles and brushes the time to clean them always thinking ahead making sure you dont run out of anything

It would be so helpful if you would use some punctuation. I had a really hard time trying to decipher your post but I wouldn't want to discount what you have to say because it's hard to read.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katheek77* 
*Who are these people that religiously sterilize bottles and take 5 minutes to make up a new one?*
I pump and supplement, and while pumping is a pain, the "bottle" part isn't very hard at all...

Holy cow. I think the only time I "sterlized" a bottle was when I first bought them, and that was just the ol' "sterlize before use". Otherwise, I toss the used ones in the sink and wash them when I do the rest of the dishes. Mixing up a bottle of formula (or getting a bottle of bm set)? Before bed I make one up and put it in the fridge...when DD wakes, we pop the bottle in her mouth...no warming, no stumbling around in the dark mixing random amounts of powder with water...

And, as for washing pump parts...I just put them in the fridge when I'm done and wash them every few days...if milk stays good for a week in the fridge, any pump part residue should be ok, I figure...haven't had any problems yet...

BF-ing is probably more convenient, but I don't think FF is any "harder" other than the foresight to make a bottle up if you're going somewhere.

I've NEVER met a FF mother who sterilizes her bottles. I just don't understand where all these people on here are coming from. I just can't imagine that the average FF mother/parent actually sterilizes the bottles.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momily* 
Also, some of the arguments people give about why FF is hard make no sense to me -- sterilizing the bottles -- um the dishwasher does that, you just rinse the stuff and stick it in, it's no more difficult than washing the glasses I use. Heating the formula -- my DS took it straight from the fridge by 4 weeks, but if your DC doesn't like it you can mix it with warm water. Getting up to go to the fridge -- I just kept it in a cooler with an ice pack. If your child likes it warm you just put the bottles with the powder by your bed and add some warm water from a thermos (also by your bed) It takes 15 seconds and doesn't require going anywhere.

Exactly what I do! My DS prefers his formula cold, as well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *laohaire* 
Um, not everyone has a dishwasher? Is this some elitist thing? I don't mind the suggestion, but the sarcasm was a little unnecessary. Obviously if someone has a dishwasher (and in working order), it will probably occur to them to put the bottle in it. If you're reading posts by mamas who are washing by hand, did you really think that they had a dishwasher and just never thought about using it?

I do not have a dishwasher, and have no problem tossing the bottles in with the other dishes. Of course, I do dishes at least once, if not twice a day, so perhaps I'm in the minority in that way. But if washing the rest of my family's dishes in the sink is okay, then why wouldn't it be okay to wash the bottles in the same way?

Tap water: Maybe I'm a bad mom then (for using water straight out of the tap), but I don't think I'm alone. I am not going to buy special water to make up bottles, and I don't know of anyone else who does, either. I've always wondered what the "baby water" was for in the store; I guess now I know: the "good" moms use that to make up formula. (Well, clearly that's a mis-statement. The "good" moms are bfing. The bad moms are FFing. And the terrible moms are using tap water to make the formula.)


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## radmamma (Jul 5, 2007)

Maybe not mechanically easier (can't hand babe off to someone else to feed while checking out for awhile)..

But bf is way easier than going to the ped. every month for some funky virus, easier than having tubes put into their ears, easier than freaking out everytime someone sneezes in their direction at wal-mart, easier than sucking green slugs out of their noses everyday for the cold that doesn't go away, easier than worrying about if there's going to be a recall on the formula, easier than wondering if I've chosen the right formula that won't make my kid sterile, easier than running out of formula and going to wal-mart at midnight, easier than doing coupon swaps to make sure I got it cheap, easier than making sure my particular formula will be covered by wic, easier than wondering if the bottle has been sitting out for over an hour and needs to be thrown away, blah blah blah...

I had 4 lc's tell me not to feel bad for not being able to bf. They said I simply wouldn't be able to do it. Flat nipples, big breasts, lazy latch, blah blah blah. Never once did I fall prey to the negativity. We kept asking for lc's until one came in and said, "Sure you can do it. But you really have to want to."

So I did. Through bad latches, bloody nipples, growth spurts, and sleepless nights, we nursed. To me, all of those trials were easier than giving my precious baby something man-made and admittedly inferior. Even now, 3 years later- if latching on hurt everytime, you bet your sweet boobies I'd still think it was easier to breastfeed.


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

Regarding the issue of tap water, it really has nothing to do with a "bad" mom, and everything to do with government policy 30+ years ago allowing companies to dump chemicals from their plants wherever suited them. In the state that I live there have been recent stories reported of chemicals that were dumped 30+ years ago have leeched into the water and are in peoples tap water. Unfortunately, because we were really behind on the kind of policy that would keep our drinking water safe, we now have to deal with safety issues of tap water.

And please don't discount the issue of lead, especially if your house was built before the 70's and/or you have old plumbing. There are many children who deal with the effects of lead toxicity everyday so please don't dismiss it with a good mom/bad mom guilt trip. Again, it has nothing to do with moms and everything to do with the fact that the U.S. was 50 years behind the world on actually doing something about lead and we are still paying the price.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
I've always wondered what the "baby water" was for in the store; I guess now I know: the "good" moms use that to make up formula. (Well, clearly that's a mis-statement. The "good" moms are bfing. The bad moms are FFing. And the terrible moms are using tap water to make the formula.)

The baby water you are referring to is flouridated water and there are both moms who agree with using flouridated water and those who disagree and it again really has nothing to do with good moms/bad moms.

And reason so many people have issues with breastfeeding
and end up formula feeding after trying or even from the get go are because women have:
*inadequate education from the very beginning
*doctors and health practictioners are often misinformed or uneducated about the process of breastfeeding and the importance/difference between formula feeding and breastfeeding
*new moms have a huge lack of support from the hospital staff, to the ob's, familyetc.
*formula companies spend a tremendous amount of money influencing the public through media, giving kickbacks doctors and nurses, and marketing

and *not* because some moms are good moms or bad moms. It really has nothing to do with the women involved and everything to do with an industry that makes millions selling infant formula for babies and how they operate, both past and present.


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## usandthegirls (Mar 22, 2006)

and am 9 months into nursing my third.

Breastfeeding is by far easier. But maybe it depends on your lifestyle. I am a SAHM with no life (lol) outside my kids, so BF'ing is a breeze for us.


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## ancoda (Oct 17, 2005)

I have not read all the way through this thread so if I repeat someone else I am sorry.
To me BF is a lot easier. It is more time consuming, but to me I do not have anything better to do with my time then to hold my baby and feed him.
I did FF DS1 for a while because of some meds I was taking and I am not a great housecleaner so we had horrid smelling bottles sitting in the sink if we did not wash/rinse them well right after using them. I have never had this problem with my boobs, bath/shower every few days and I am good to go.


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## ksera05 (Apr 14, 2006)

We have actually been specifically told by our GI to *NOT* use tap water due to high levels of things such as sulfites in our area (East Tennessee). She was very adament about it.

Baby water is basically purified water with flouride added.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Goats milk is actually VERY similar to human breast milk. I was Using Fresh Goats milk that was supplemented with flax seed oil and vitamins. No, not as good as breast milk, but a heck of a lot closer than any commercial formula you can buy.


Ah, no. You are wrong. Very wrong.

The basic constituents of food; fat, protein and carbohydrates are present in DIFFERENT proportions in goat/cow milk than in formula or human milk. Formaula is cow's milk processed to try and make it more like human milk. Goat milk is very similar to unprocessed cow's milk.

Specifically, there is too much protein and not enough carbohydrate in goats milk for human babies. It causes intestinal bleeding and anaemia.

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/mi...ents.html#goat


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## dimibella (Feb 5, 2007)

well it looks like this thread went kinda OT at some point but yes BFing is waaaay easier than FF. My DS went through a prolonged nursing strike at about 7mo and because I was not as well informed back then I weaned him and went to formula. It was such a huge, amazing PITA to have to get up out of bed, warm up formula, assemble the bottle, 3 times a night. Make sure I had a bottle and coldpack for storage everywhere we went, find some place to warm it up. Finding gross forgotten thrown bottles underneath the seats in the car was a real treat. Those are just a few.


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## luminesce (Aug 6, 2006)

Frankly, I don't think anyone anywhere could put more effort into breastfeeding than I do. We feed every hour during the day so I can transfer little one and half ounce meals to babe and keep my dastardly boobs making milk (I have insufficient glandular tissue and make about 20 ounces a day on average IF I work at it) -- AND I still think what I am doing would be easier than formula feeding or supplementing of any kind. I hate having to supplement. I use donor milk but the concept is the same. Preparation, devices, cleaning... yuck.

(OT and I haven't read other posts so don't know if this has been brought up -- but I thought that Goat's milk didn't have the right balance of fats for a babe?)


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## avedagrrl (Sep 17, 2007)

DS was 3.5 weeks early and had a weak suck. At the hospital I saw at least 2 LCs who were trying to be helpful but just made me feel stupid. One nurse, at 3 AM showed me the football hold, was the only way I could get him to latch properly and stay awake enough. We went home. It was terrible. I was huge and engorged and sobbing, calling LLL people in my area, calling LCs (that never called back grrr), and talking to my LLL aunt long distance a LOT. When he got jaundice and had bili lights at home, DH said "if it's so hard, let's just give him some formula." I made a bottle of EBM and cried the whole time DH fed him, then the baby yakked the whole thing back up. It took us two weeks to get sort of ok bf'ing. I just nursed topless (in a fountain of leaking milk) for weeks. I football held for close to 3 months. If I hadn't made the commitment to DS to do the right thing for him, I would have quit in a minute and FF. But I knew I couldn't.

BF'ing was so hard those first weeks and months. I was blessed that I knew we couldn't afford to FF. And then it was a breeze one day. That's all there was to it. All of a sudden I slept the night through with my baby next to me.

When I went back to work I pumped in a bathroom, two other pumping moms and I went in turns. The next job I had I pumped in a coat closet. I hated my pump, wanted to throw it out the window, but I did it anyway because I could not stand the idea of my DS having formula.

My DD was 4 weeks early and it has been basically easy from day one. She refuses formula (MIL tries to give it to her while I'm at work 2 days a week), she just waits for me. I pumped for her in the beginning, stopped, but will probably start pumping again. I ADORE my nursing relationship, it is the most special time ever for me! It was worth every tear.

Yes, breastfeeding can be very difficult to establish. No one ever told me it wasn't easy. Two people are learning a new skill at the same time, there's a curve to it. Once it's established, it's just so much easier IME, which has only included FF other people's babies.

And as a PP said, I am too cheap and stubborn to pay for something that is substandard when I can make the premium gold standard on my very own for FREE! I like free.

I tell all my friends who are pregnant or new moms that it can be really hard but that I am there at any time of the day, they can call me and if I can't help I can listen and I can find someone who can help. I truly believe that honest education is the most important thing that we lack. Also, I love that article "Breast is NOT Best"... who has that link in their sig line?


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
Ah, no. You are wrong. Very wrong.

The basic constituents of food; fat, protein and carbohydrates are present in DIFFERENT proportions in goat/cow milk than in formula or human milk. Formaula is cow's milk processed to try and make it more like human milk. Goat milk is very similar to unprocessed cow's milk.

Specifically, there is too much protein and not enough carbohydrate in goats milk for human babies. It causes intestinal bleeding and anaemia.

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/mi...ents.html#goat


Most of the articles I read that you linked to are saying that enfamil is better than Goats Milk.

That is not true, and my son did FANTASTIC on the goats milk formula. It seems that these articles are assuming that straight goats milk is being given?

I never said that it is as good as breast milk, but if you are in a situation where you HAVE to switch, the Goats Milk formula is better than commercial formula.

And my son is extremely healthy. Other than our issues with FTT, he has been to a doc one time when he was 2 for being sick with a flu.

No tubes in his ears, or green snot, he didn't have stinky poop or puke the Goats Milk up everywhere. He actually digested the Goats Milk BETTER than my breast milk. I know that because he spit up Way LESS on goats milk and he didn't have a horrible time going poop anymore once we switched.

I think it is really rude that so many self righteous women who were lucky enough to be able to breast feed their kids have to trash ffing so badly. There are a lot of people who have to switch for reasons beyond their control.

It really makes me feel like CRAP to read this stuff saying that FF kids are sickly, and that formula is the same as Mac N Cheese







:

*I really can't picture myself coming here for support if I have trouble with my next babe. And that is too bad, because that was my plan since I thought that this was a more supportive board. What a JOKE!

But at this point I am in tears. I never thought that people saying mean things on the internet could get to me. I guess that this is just to sensitive of an issue for me to be strong enough to take the insults. I spent a lot of time crying after I had to switch to formula. It was not what I wanted. I didn't realize that I would get trashed so bad for FFIng my child. I guess I should have just let him starve to death.

It is attitudes like this that just contribute to the problem.

Just be careful breastfeeding up on such a high horse. It is a long fall.

*


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## lml41981 (Jun 14, 2006)

dubfam, Mothering.com is a natural family living website. MDCers are supportive of natural parenting and natural feeding methods. It is understood by the vast majority of people who post on MDC that formula is a good thing to have available for *true* necessity, but that *true* necessity is rare. It is a fact that most women could successfully breastfeed if they had better support and more knowledge about it. If that were not a fact, the human species would have died out long ago. The formula-feeding that is not supported here (and, in fact, I believe is prohibited from being promoted) is formula feeding by choice. That is to say that we're not allowed to pat moms on the back and say, "It's ok if you just don't want to breastfeed."

Furthermore, you posted a pro-formula schpiel in the breastfeeding section. What, exactly, did you expect? I'm not saying that to be insulting or rude, but come on... Of course the women who would post in a breastfeeding area of a message board would support breastfeeding. It is exactly the same as going into The Case Against Circumcision and saying, "Are Circumcised Penises "Easier" to Clean Than Intact?" You just have to know your audience.

Now...onto other things...in the spirit of trying to understand... You say that your son spit up your breastmilk, but not the goats' milk formula you gave him. Did you try any elimination diets or anything? I'm wondering if he was reacting to something you were eating that a goat would not be eating.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lml41981* 
dubfam, Mothering.com is a natural family living website. MDCers are supportive of natural parenting and natural feeding methods. It is understood by the vast majority of people who post on MDC that formula is a good thing to have available for *true* necessity, but that *true* necessity is rare. It is a fact that most women could successfully breastfeed if they had better support and more knowledge about it. If that were not a fact, the human species would have died out long ago. The formula-feeding that is not supported here (and, in fact, I believe is prohibited from being promoted) is formula feeding by choice. That is to say that we're not allowed to pat moms on the back and say, "It's ok if you just don't want to breastfeed."

Furthermore, *you posted a pro-formula schpiel in the breastfeeding section.* What, exactly, did you expect? I'm not saying that to be insulting or rude, but come on... Of course the women who would post in a breastfeeding area of a message board would support breastfeeding. It is exactly the same as going into The Case Against Circumcision and saying, "Are Circumcised Penises "Easier" to Clean Than Intact?" You just have to know your audience.

Now...onto other things...in the spirit of trying to understand... You say that your son spit up your breastmilk, but not the goats' milk formula you gave him. Did you try any elimination diets or anything? I'm wondering if he was reacting to something you were eating that a goat would not be eating.


What did I post that was pro formula????!!!!!!!







:







:

Please...elaborate. Because I am not pro formula in any way.

I just thought that maybe everyone was adult enough to have a grown up conversation without getting rude. I think everyone reading this thread realises that breast milk is better, as I have stated REPEATEDLY, but people have still felt the need to remind me just how terrible I was to give my son formula. And just how terrible formula is etc

The only point that I was trying to make is that FF is much more convenient, easier etc for a lot of women and that is a reason for a lot of ppl switching to formula. I think that we need to be more honest and admit that there are struggles with BFing and that it isn't the "easiest" route. I think that if women are realistically prepared about what it is like to breast feed then they have a much better likelihood of sticking with it.

And if you read my posts on this thread you will see what I went through with my son. YES I tried elimination diets.

.


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## lml41981 (Jun 14, 2006)

Here's a helpful summary of how some folks may have read your OP (and subsequent posts). "Formula feeding is awesome. It's eaiser and more convenient. Here are all the reasons why this is true. What do you think? Oh, you disagree? You're so judgmental and rude! How dare you!!!"

The bit about, "Of course breastfeeding is best" smacks of Enfamil, Good Start and Similac basically saying, "Breast is best, but our product is just as good." No, breast is not best...breast is normal. Anything else is a deviation from the norm and if at all possible, a solution should be sought so that the child can be fed normally. If that is just not possible, then it is a good thing we have formula available.

I am sorry if I missed your posts about what you did for elimination diets...there are quite a few posts in this thread and I tried to read them all, but I might have missed one or two.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lml41981* 
Here's a helpful summary of how some folks may have read your OP (and subsequent posts). "Formula feeding is awesome. It's eaiser and more convenient. Here are all the reasons why this is true. What do you think? *Oh, you disagree? You're so judgmental and rude! How dare you!!!"*

The bit about, "Of course breastfeeding is best" smacks of Enfamil, Good Start and Similac basically saying, "Breast is best, but our product is just as good." No, breast is not best...breast is normal. Anything else is a deviation from the norm and if at all possible, a solution should be sought so that the child can be fed normally. If that is just not possible, then it is a good thing we have formula available.

I am sorry if I missed your posts about what you did for elimination diets...there are quite a few posts in this thread and I tried to read them all, but I might have missed one or two.

No....the rudeness and judegment is in the posts that claim that
most women who switch to formula are uneducated...ie not as smart as you (general you)
Or that Formula is like kraft mac n cheese
Or that breast feeding is easy for almost every woman (I must be a freak of nature)

When that was so beside the point of this thread.

I do not see how it is pro formula to point out some of the reasons that FFIng is an epidemic in this country.

I get the impression that ppl here really believe that the only women who switch to formula are either stupid (uneducated) or lazy (as a pp said) or just think it is gross. There is a real denial about the amount of women who do have serious problems that prevent them from being able to breast feed. THere have always been women who have had problems, but when you are living in a tribe with other bfing women they feed the babies instead of the moms who have trouble with it. That is not the reality today, and most moms who cab't breast feed are left to try and find the most healthy alternative.

Don't ppl here realize that there are babies who would DIE if it weren't for formula???!!!

I think it is horribly overused in our country, but it does have it's very important place in a lot of situations.

.


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## momuveight2B (Mar 17, 2006)

I have had to bottle feed two of my children, it has been pure hell. The first was born in 1980 with cleft lip and palate and we had to go to formula since there were no LC or pumps for home use like today. We spent a fortune and she was extremely ill with upper respiratory infections and ear infections during her first two years. It was more work than I ever want to remember and very expensive. I believed in breastfeeding before her birth and even more committed to breastfeeding and child led weaning after.

Now with baby #8 I am bottlefeeding breastmilk. Actually we are also tube feeding him. It is a ton of work, not the pumping or breastfeeding his sister but preparing the milk, fortifying with a special formula powder, washing and sterilizing eguipment eight to ten times a day and storing it all. Then when we have to go out to the doctor we have to bring enough and keep it cold and then warm. I warm it in my shirt. Yesterday we were at the doctor three hours longer than expected and I had to hand express into a bottle and into his mouth.

Breastfeeding can be hard to learn and establish in the beginning but once it is done you have a wonderful, carefree relationship for the next four to five years. Parenting is 100% easier once you are breastfeeding. Without breastfeeding I have to rely on a piece of plastic to meet the needs of my child and it is woefully inadequate.

Even though my two could not breastfeed they still are put to breast for comfort because there is something there that they are biologically programmed to respond to in a way that plastic can never meet.

I would never, ever volunteer for formula feeding or even bottle feeding of breastmilk. It is at least ten times the work and I am getting half the sleep.


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## jenniepaige (Apr 17, 2007)

BF is hands down MUCH easier! Now, it would have been nice if DD2 would take a bottle before she was 9 months so I could get a breather sometimes but wow would I not trade that for the world. The fact that I WAS the only one that could feed her made it that much special. DD1 I only nursed for 2 months and hated bottles. So, I've done it both ways and def agree that BF is easier for countless reasons. Oh yea, and its free.


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## Calidris (Apr 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 

Middle of the night feedings were the same thing....keep a little cooler bag right next to the bed with pre made bottles and a thermos of hot water to heat it. *I took 2 minutes from the time Owen woke to the time he had his bottle*, and I didn't even have to get out of bed.

I've never bottle fed, so I can't offer any comment on the comparison, but I just had to say that if my DD had to wait 2 minutes from stirring to getting her milk, I would have had a screaming, upset, wound up child on my hands. She never actually woke to nurse at night (and often neither did I).
Even in the day time 2 minutes would have meant a bunch of fussing and crying.


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## CaraboosMama (Mar 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
What did I post that was pro formula????!!!!!!!







:







:

Please...elaborate. Because I am not pro formula in any way.

*The only point that I was trying to make is that FF is much more convenient, easier etc for a lot of women and that is a reason for a lot of ppl switching to formula. I think that we need to be more honest and admit that there are struggles with BFing and that it isn't the "easiest" route. I think that if women are realistically prepared about what it is like to breast feed then they have a much better likelihood of sticking with it.*

.

I added the bolding. To me, this whole paragraph is "pro-formula feeding." Maybe something is getting lost in the online format that I would be picking up on conversationally. I am not bashing you for choosing formula, just curious as to why you are looking for people to "admit that bf is difficult and ff is easier" on a pro-bf forum







: Most of us on this particular board found bf to be easier, a great fit, etc. and are sympathetic to those who were unable to bf for one reason or another.

My bf experiences have not been challenge-free (teething - ouch!







) but I don't feel it has been a difficult thing to do. I think once you get through the 1st few weeks - most bf moms I have met find it very easy (those with extensive or prohibitive difficulties past the 1st few weeks being more the exception than something common.)


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## Mandynee22 (Nov 20, 2006)

I've done both... my DD was FF from 2 months on and my son (a year old yesterday) has never had formula, or pumped milk for that matter.
I think that there are pros and cons (convenience ones, not health ones) to both.
Overall though, I would have to say that BFing is easier. I don't even have to be AWAKE for night feedings. How awesome is THAT??? Mom's diner has been self serve when I'm sleeping since he was about 2 months old.
BUT--- with FFing, someone else could feed baby if I was busy or in the shower or wanted to go out.
I hate doing dishes. I don't have a dishwasher. That's a biggy on the no FFing side LOL
I have a tendency to procrastinate, so running out of formula at the most inopportune times would be a definite drawback.
Not to mention the stains that formula makes and the pretreating and laundry work that they create.


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## willowsmom (Oct 28, 2004)

Haven't read replies:

"Is Breastfeeding 'Easier' Than FF?"

YES!
I breastfeed my kid because I'm a lazy parent. Seriously. Let me explain. lol
Even though we had so many problems early on...I didn't want to get out of bed to make formula. I didn't want to sterilize and warm up and mix and clean, and get out of bed (did I already mention that?)

I wanted something that was readily available at the right temperature whenever my baby needed it. Breastfeeding does exactly that.

I never had to jack with powders or expiration dates or measuring...I'm a minimalist: "Baby Hungry. Baby Eat. Baby Happy." we're good.

So...yes. If you are able to Breastfeed...why not?


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## willowsmom (Oct 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CaraboosMama* 
I added the bolding. To me, this whole paragraph is "pro-formula feeding." Maybe something is getting lost in the online format that I would be picking up on conversationally. I am not bashing you for choosing formula, just curious as to why you are looking for people to "admit that bf is difficult and ff is easier" on a pro-bf forum







: Most of us on this particular board found bf to be easier, a great fit, etc. and are sympathetic to those who were unable to bf for one reason or another.

My bf experiences have not been challenge-free (teething - ouch!







) but I don't feel it has been a difficult thing to do. I think once you get through the 1st few weeks - most bf moms I have met find it very easy (those with extensive or prohibitive difficulties past the 1st few weeks being more the exception than something common.)


I think she was just playing "Devil's Advocate" for the sake of dialogue.


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## Mandynee22 (Nov 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dnw826* 
I have never (IRL, I don't know anyone on here, either) met anyone ever who switched to formula b/c it was easier. Because it wasn't "gross", yes, or because they wanted to be able to drink/whatever, yes, b/c of medical issues, yes.


I do. I know several people who never BFed at all because FFing is easier and because "the baby won't be attached to me all the time"


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momuveight2B* 
Now with baby #8 I am bottlefeeding breastmilk. Actually we are also tube feeding him. It is a ton of work, not the pumping or breastfeeding his sister but preparing the milk, fortifying with a special formula powder, washing and sterilizing eguipment eight to ten times a day and storing it all. Then when we have to go out to the doctor we have to bring enough and keep it cold and then warm. I warm it in my shirt. Yesterday we were at the doctor three hours longer than expected and I had to hand express into a bottle and into his mouth.

...

I would never, ever volunteer for formula feeding or even bottle feeding of breastmilk. It is at least ten times the work and I am getting half the sleep.

Please tell me how you find the time w 8 children. I'm falling apart w 4 and I am about to give up on the pumping and bottle feeding EBM, we're fortifying w medical grade formula. I bring my breastpump when we go to the docs!!! It's a 2 hr trip there and 2 hr trip back. I plan more time so I can pump before we go in to our appt. Along w food for myself since I'm GF and DF.

And the warming part, well, that is a challenge. Actually bm warm is the only way the fortifier disolves. The Formula straight up Cold is the only way to go since it taste so bad.

Please start a new thread or PM me. I'm at my wits end and I'm tired, my children need me and my dh misses me and they would like clean floors to walk on and a dinner to eat. I live by the pump!!! And on DOM. And I don't want to do it anymore. But I simply can't let go... I've tried for months to convience myself that FF would be okay if he takes it and tolerates it. He finally will take it and tolerates 1 kind. I'm living in limbo of some bm and some formula -- I guess that is okay. I suppose it's a happy medium which I am just not happy with. He's happy.

Oh please tell me there is a way to do it all.


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## Mandynee22 (Nov 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CaraboosMama* 
I added the bolding. To me, this whole paragraph is "pro-formula feeding." Maybe something is getting lost in the online format that I would be picking up on conversationally. I am not bashing you for choosing formula, just curious as to why you are looking for people to "admit that bf is difficult and ff is easier" on a pro-bf forum







: Most of us on this particular board found bf to be easier, a great fit, etc. and are sympathetic to those who were unable to bf for one reason or another.

My bf experiences have not been challenge-free (teething - ouch!







) but I don't feel it has been a difficult thing to do. I think once you get through the 1st few weeks - most bf moms I have met find it very easy (those with extensive or prohibitive difficulties past the 1st few weeks being more the exception than something common.)


I don't think it was pro FFing at all. She was saying (IMO) that maybe we should better inform moms of some of the challenges that they may face so when/if it happens, they'll know it's NORMAL AND OK. If we all go around saying "BFing is so super easy" then what is a mom to think when her baby's been attached to her for 45 hours straight and still cries and she gets an infection and etc? I agree with her and I'm a hard core BFing advocate now... downright snobby. But I would never tell a new mom that it's super easy because sometimes it's just not. Then when a challenge hits, mom will think "Crap. I'm doing this all wrong. FFing it is because I'm obviously not capable"
It BECOMES easy sure, but it doesn't always start out that way.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Calidris* 
I've never bottle fed, so I can't offer any comment on the comparison, but I just had to say that if my DD had to wait 2 minutes from stirring to getting her milk, I would have had a screaming, upset, wound up child on my hands. She never actually woke to nurse at night (and often neither did I). Even in the day time 2 minutes would have meant a bunch of fussing and crying.


I've seemed to have developed an instinct for this. I wake up a few minutes before DS starts stirring. I get his bottle from his fridge, and by the time I walk back to the room, DS is usually starting to toss. He then gets the bottle and doesn't wake up. And in the days, it's true that he wants his bottle NOW. That's why you always can have a few bottles in the fridge ready to go.

As for the whole "is this supporting FF" - I see the OP's point. I don't think it's pro-FF. I think it *is* important to, let's say... "debunk" the myth that FF is very challenging or complicated. I think it would be BETTER to say what other people have stated... "For the first few weeks, it probably IS much easier to FF. But you know what? It's worth it, and it gets easier. Stay with it!" I think that would be more encouraging.

I know everyone says "oh yeah, well you have to work on it" but when you've just given birth and you're tired, and your life is upside down, and you might have PPD, and someone says, "It'd be easier to give yourself a break and FF" I think you have more a chance of sticking with it if you realize the harder path is better. It also gives more credit to the people who struggle with it. It's acknowledging that it can be a sacrifice.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Oh, I wanted to add to the actual OT...

I have a df who chooses to FF. She has 5 kids. She bf 3 of them some, when I say some, I mean a few months to a few weeks. She believes FF is easier. She also decided to use the excuse she was on anti-depressants and the doc told her not too.

It irritated me, but for her, it was easier for some reason. She co-sleeps so I'm not sure why she thinks bottles are easier. During the day I can see that they are. Especially if you bottle prop which I know she does, or her other kids feed the baby.

She never stated she had difficulty nursing, so I don't truly understand her choosing FFing over BFing, but there are mothers out there that do. I gave her a good e-mail about lazy parenting bfing, but she just was not interested. I didn't push it after that 1 long e-mail.

There is only so much you can do to help another mother move toward bfing. In the end, that woman is going to do what she feels she needs to do. I wish FFing were only used in medical necessity, but that isn't the case. And it is a choice families make similar to other parenting choices and we are not all going to agree w one another.

BTW - I dont' agree w my df's choice. But she is still my df. She still loves her kids. She respects my bfing and I respect her ffing. We can all get along, we all just want to provide for our babies as we see fit to do so and as best we can. PPD does a lot to a mom and I know from experience that bfing issues w severe PPD resulted in FFing in addition to lack of support and knowledge.

The time to support a mother is in pregnancy, not after she's already been ffing and reverting back to bfing would be so that much more difficult.


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## Mandynee22 (Nov 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
Tap water: Maybe I'm a bad mom then (for using water straight out of the tap), but I don't think I'm alone. I am not going to buy special water to make up bottles, and I don't know of anyone else who does, either. I've always wondered what the "baby water" was for in the store; I guess now I know: the "good" moms use that to make up formula. (Well, clearly that's a mis-statement. The "good" moms are bfing. The bad moms are FFing. And the terrible moms are using tap water to make the formula.)


When DD was FF I used tap, too. Baby water has flouride- at least any of the ones I've seen including nursery water, and flouride is a no-no for babies under 12 months (I actually got into an argument about that the other day LOL)

http://www.ada.org/public/topics/flu...ntsformula.asp


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## nummies (Jun 9, 2007)

I really think that it is misleading to tell women that FF is easier. Because what happens when they switch from the "difficult" BF to FF? They find out that it isn't easier *for them* and wish that they could go back. Everyone will experience different difficulties.

I would simply say to women that "Breastfeeding is a lot of work in the beginning, it takes dedication, and if you encounter problems (which may happen because it is a learning process) to seek help. But it is one of the most rewarding experiences a woman can have." And leave it at that.

OP: I really don't think that you meant to be pro-FF. But I can see how some people may see it that way. The last thing pro-BFers want to hear is that FF is so much easier. Sorry that your feelings were hurt. Try not to take it as a personal attack on your mothering skills.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
most women who switch to formula are uneducated
Or that Formula is like kraft mac n cheese
Or that breast feeding is easy for almost every woman

It feels personal, I know but really, what in the above is NOT true? From what I've read, what i've seen everything you feel that people are being judgmental about IS true. It's just not something that give a FF mom warm fuzzies.

It is a FACT that poor breastfeeding education impacts the % of women who successfully breastfeed.

It is a FACT that formula is processed, sub standard *artificial* baby milk.

I would even wager to say that it is a fact that breastfeeding _can_ be easy for most women _(with the proper help and education)_

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Don't ppl here realize that there are babies who would DIE if it weren't for formula???!!!


I had one of those babies. I've never once said formula doesn't have it's place. I was glad to have it as sick as it made me to give it. I'm not about to pretend it was easy to make myself feel better about having to use it.


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## momuveight2B (Mar 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375* 
Please tell me how you find the time w 8 children. I'm falling apart w 4 and I am about to give up on the pumping and bottle feeding EBM, we're fortifying w medical grade formula. ...
Oh please tell me there is a way to do it all.

Oh, I'm not doing it all. I am getting sleep about five hours a night, not in a row, since I have to get up to pump & feed him three times and that takes me nearly ninety minutes. It would be easier to have him admitted into the hospital but that is not good for him. I am a walking zombie.

I expect someone to show up at my door at any moment to either admit me to the psych hospital which would be a blessed relief or to take my baby because he is so sick and my house is a mess and the other kids are eating candy for all their meals. It is just nuts.

Maybe my best tip is get a crock pot. I try to throw something in it every morning. We live seventy miles from the doctors/hospital too.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CaraboosMama* 
I added the bolding. To me, this whole paragraph is "pro-formula feeding." Maybe something is getting lost in the online format that I would be picking up on conversationally. I am not bashing you for choosing formula, just curious as to why you are looking for people to "admit that bf is difficult and ff is easier" on a pro-bf forum







: Most of us on this particular board found bf to be easier, a great fit, etc. and are sympathetic to those who were unable to bf for one reason or another.

My bf experiences have not been challenge-free (teething - ouch!







) but I don't feel it has been a difficult thing to do. I think once you get through the 1st few weeks - most bf moms I have met find it very easy (those with extensive or prohibitive difficulties past the 1st few weeks being more the exception than something common.)


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jörð* 
It feels personal, I know but really, what in the above is NOT true? From what I've read, what i've seen everything you feel that people are being judgmental about IS true. It's just not something that give a FF mom warm fuzzies.

It is a FACT that poor breastfeeding education impacts the % of women who successfully breastfeed.

It is a FACT that formula is processed, sub standard *artificial* baby milk.

I would even wager to say that it is a fact that breastfeeding _can_ be easy for most women _(with the proper help and education)_

I had one of those babies. I've never once said formula doesn't have it's place. I was glad to have it as sick as it made me to give it. I'm not about to pretend it was easy to make myself feel better about having to use it.









: To all of that.


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## ananas (Jun 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 

*I really can't picture myself coming here for support if I have trouble with my next babe. And that is too bad, because that was my plan since I thought that this was a more supportive board.

*


Quote:


Originally Posted by *lml41981* 

Furthermore, you posted a pro-formula schpiel in the breastfeeding section. What, exactly, did you expect?

Exactly. This is a very supportive board- it's a very supportive *breastfeeding* board! If you had come on saying you were having latch problems, you would have found tons of support. But coming on to say that your son spit up breastmilk so he's on goat milk formula and you really think it's quite good...then yeah, not so much. I'm not saying that to be hurtful...but this isn't a formula feeding board, it's a breastfeeding board. Replies like you have received should be expected.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Don't ppl here realize that there are babies who would DIE if it weren't for formula???!!!

And do you realize that there are thousands and thousands of babies who die *because* of formula?


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## hipmummy (May 25, 2007)

I had posted yesterday about I have done Bf with my ds and have ff my nanny charges. My bf difficulties were many. I am a doula and CLC along with my mother who is an IBCLC for as long as the test has been around and she ebfd four dc's over 12 months each. I had every difficult possible. I was unable to hold my ds until he was eight hours old. On top of that I could not nurse himuntil he was over 12 hours old. He was deep suctioned twice and had to to stuck every hour. I started off on the worst foot possible. My first four experiences with bf were with a medela symphony pump. In fact I let down better to machinery than ds. To make matters worse ds had a billi of 18 so I still had to pump and supplement with a syringe my extra colostrum then bm the following days. I had excessive milk production so ds would chuck the second breast. I learned quickly to only feed one breast a session. Voila, no more spitting up.
To add insult to injury ds had a very severe case of thrush that went systemic. We discovered that this was incurred during the NICU stay from the cocktail of antibiotics he was on. For one week my child screamed because he hurt to much to latch on. My mother had to syringe or spoon feed him until his mouth sores went away. Did I ever once consider quitting. NO NO NO. Not one mother I knew supported me. In fact I think I lost a lot of friends after because they all new they could never handle any of those situations. They all quit because they had no patience. Where as I never give up on anything.
If I had listen to the rest of society I would have gone on all of these stupid diets and stopped eating thing I loved forever. Most mother have no clue and think their baby had GERD or an allergy. Years ago thses "illnesses were unheard of.The reality of it is they are just to TOO FULL! There are so many made up breastfeeding issues:the biggest problem is most mothers who CHOOSE not to breastfeed are just too self absorbed and should not have had children in the first place. I read the stories of these women with "real" issues that try and try to breastfeed and kudos to you for trying and keeping with it. Your baby is so very lucky becasuse you tried.
The reason I come to MDC is because of the wonderful like minded Mamas. This was the first real true NFL site. Bringing formula in the mix is just not what we are about. If you feel sad or upset it is because you manifest those feeling from deep inside you. If someone feels guilty they have brought it on themselves.


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## Therese's Mommy (Jan 15, 2005)

Didn't read all the posts.

You could never convince me that sterilizing bottles and whatnot, making the milk (whether it be mixing the formula or making your own like OP did) and all that jazz is in anyway easier than unhooking my bra and latching baby on.

Here are the things that I think make bfing *so* much more convenient.
--when I have to wait 3 hrs at the dr's office because he is triple booked that day I don't have to worry that I didn't pack enough bottles (or when a 10hr car ride turns into a 2 day ordeal, or whatever unexpected thing happens)

--I don't have to worry about running out of it ever

--I don't have to worry about the milk being at the right temp

--when baby is crying I don't have to think wonder if I should get a bottle ready, I just unlatch my bra and try to latch baby on. If baby is not hungry I have not wasted a whole bottle after baby take 3 sucks.

I could go on.

Nope, there is no way it is easier, you won't be able to convince me of that.

Now, is ff easier than exclusively pumping? Yes, maybe that is and that is why I have great respect for women who have to exclusively pump.

Beth


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
*I think that literature saying bfing is the easiest thing ever is setting women up for failure. With everyone always talking about how simple it is, no wonder women think they can't breastfeed when they are having a minor problem. They are hearing everywhere they turn that bfing is so easy and natural. So when it isn't easy and natural for them, they think there is something wrong with THEM.*

I wanted to quote this to make sure everyone reads it again.

It is beyond me why so many people on this board refuse to get this point. I have had this same argument here before and been accused of promoting formula.







It infuriates me to hear people out there telling new moms, "oh, it's so easy, just pull up your shirt and latch him on!" because for so many of them, that's not how it works - and they think they have to give up because it's not working.

I was supplementing for a while with this baby while my hideously cracked nipples healed up and I ep'ed. We're back to ebf now and yes, it is getting easier. But this was my experience when we were supplementing:

Formula feed - dump powder and water into bottle, shake bottle, feed baby, burp baby, get spit up on.

Breastfeed - Get into position on the couch. Arrange pillows. Set baby on pillows. Attempt latch. Repeat until nipple is bleeding. Try other side. Attempt latch again. Try cross-cradle hold. Switch to cradle hold. Try football hold. Offer up a prayer that he finally latched this time. Try not to scream out loud in pain, because that will make him unlatch. When he's done, burp him, get spit up on. Then put Lansinoh on bleeding nipples and remember to use nursing pads, so you don't get blood on all your bras.

Does anyone here seriously want to argue that a new mother who's been told repeatedly that breastfeeding is easier, and who hasn't been warned about this kind of difficulty, would be able to get through that stage without feeling like a failure - or like she'd been lied to? Does anyone honestly think that you can convince someone in that kind of situation that breastfeeding is EASY?

It's not always easy. It hasn't been for me. It's worth it, but it's not EASY.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mandynee22* 
When DD was FF I used tap, too. Baby water has flouride- at least any of the ones I've seen including nursery water, and flouride is a no-no for babies under 12 months (I actually got into an argument about that the other day LOL)

Tap water has fluoride in it.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 

*I want to start this by saying that I am NOT trying to advocate formula feeding. I strongly believe that breast milk is the best for a child.*

I hear mom's IRL and on MDC say that Breastfeeding is SOOO much easier than formula feeding.

I have also read this in a lot of breastfeeding literature.

I found it to be completely untrue, and I am wondering *What* makes people feel that breast feeding is "Easier"?

I had to switch to formula when DS was 5 months old. Long story, and the reasons why are beside the point.

Formula feeding was sooo much easier. It took about 10 percent of the time that breast feeding did and was much more convenient. We used a fresh goats milk formula that we made at home. When we would go out we would bring a really small cooler bag for the bottle, and a thermos of hot water to heat it up with. Yes, that part (bringing more stuff) is harder than breast feeding. But it was so much easier to heat a bottle and be done feeding him in five minutes versus the amount of time (at least 30 minutes) it would have taken to breastfeed him. And I didn't have to worry about nursing bras or breast pads or leaking breasts. I could also ask DP to give him the bottle which is not an option if you are bfing.

Middle of the night feedings were the same thing....keep a little cooler bag right next to the bed with pre made bottles and a thermos of hot water to heat it. I took 2 minutes from the time Owen woke to the time he had his bottle, and I didn't even have to get out of bed. He would be done and ready to go back to sleep within 5 minutes.

With Formula, anyone can help out. It doesn't have to be you who feeds the baby every time. You can actually get a few hours of sleep or go out somewhere without the baby for a while if you need to without having to pump (which was a disaster for us







)

I just think it is silly not to acknowledge that there are MANY things about formula feeding that make it much easier for the mom.

That is why a lot of people switch to formula...because they are overwhelmed and it is sooo much easier than breastfeeding.

I have a good friend who has been breastfeeding for the last 2.5 yrs. She has 2 Bio kids that have been Bf'd exclusively, ages 2 yo and 10 mo.
She and I have argued (nicely) about this exact thing for about a year now. She insisted that she couldn't understand why anyone would think formula was easier.
Well, she just adopted an infant, and she is doing Goat milk formula for the first time and she can't BELIEVE how much easier it is. She had just thought that FF would be harder because all the pro breastfeeding literature says that it is.
She and I were talking about this and I thought it would be interesting to get some other opinions.

I would especially like to hear if there are ppl who have done both and found breastfeeding to be much easier over all.

*Again, this is not meant to imply in any way that formula is better, or that people should switch to formula w.out a medical reason!!

I just think that if we are going to try to convince someone to bf instead of ff then we should be honest.
Breastfeeding is a huge sacrifice and commitment. It is worth it 150%, and is wonderful for Mom and Baby.
It is the healthiest thing for a baby to eat.
It is really hard work.*


Can you please explain WHAT is easier about it? BFing takes about as much work as unclipping my nursing bra and lifting my shirt. I can't imagine making anything no matter how easy to make would be easier than that.

Seriously what did you and your friend find more difficult about BFing than prep work, or dealing with bottles, planning in advance and packing them if you are leaving the house for more and an hour or two. I'm just not getting why FFing would be easier than the 2 seconds it takes to unclip a bra and lift a shirt.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
It's not always easy. It hasn't been for me. It's worth it, but it's not EASY.

But the question was "is breastfeeding easier than formula feeding?" For the majority of women it _is_. That doesn't mean it's _easy_, and it doesn't mean that, at first, it isn't difficult and painful.

It's like sex. Before you've done it, people tell you it's great, it's a beautiful experience, yadda yadda yadda. Then you try it for the first time and it is painful and awkward. Does that mean everyone who said it was wonderful was lying?


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

breastfeeding, at least for me , was 130% easier than FF. I FF my son and nursed my dd's. I would never go back to FF'd. BF is so much more easier in the long run.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
But the question was "is breastfeeding easier than formula feeding?" For the majority of women it _is_. That doesn't mean it's _easy_, and it doesn't mean that, at first, it isn't difficult and painful.

It's like sex. Before you've done it, people tell you it's great, it's a beautiful experience, yadda yadda yadda. Then you try it for the first time and it is painful and awkward. Does that mean everyone who said it was wonderful was lying?









funny but true analogy. I sure got a mother of a blister BFing my first. The cracked and bleeding nipple on the other side was way lass painful than the one with the blister. The good thing is that the breast milk itself helped the cracked nipple heal quickly. And before my son was a month old we were smooth sailing. A month, that was it. One month out of 40 months of a fantastic simple easy and wonderful BFing relationship with my son. No formula would be worth that month. I got a little sore for two days with babe number two and that was it.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
Formula feed - dump powder and water into bottle, shake bottle, feed baby, burp baby, get spit up on.

Breastfeed - Get into position on the couch. Arrange pillows. Set baby on pillows. Attempt latch. Repeat until nipple is bleeding. Try other side. Attempt latch again. Try cross-cradle hold. Switch to cradle hold. Try football hold. Offer up a prayer that he finally latched this time. Try not to scream out loud in pain, because that will make him unlatch. When he's done, burp him, get spit up on. Then put Lansinoh on bleeding nipples and remember to use nursing pads, so you don't get blood on all your bras.

I saw my mother breastfeed my 5 younger siblings, I've breastfed four children, I've seen 15 nieces and nephews bf, plus many friends and LLL group members, and I can tell you that breastfeeding is not like that for most women. Once you get over the learning stage in the beginning, it is normally very easy.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
But the question was "is breastfeeding easier than formula feeding?" For the majority of women it _is_. That doesn't mean it's _easy_, and it doesn't mean that, at first, it isn't difficult and painful.

Except that something like 35% of mothers in the U.S. attempt to formula feed and quit before 6 months. In most cases, that's because they never got past the initial difficult stage, and gave up because it was too hard. For them, formula feeding IS easier than breastfeeding ever was.

Why are people so resistant to the idea of telling new moms, "look, it's not as easy at first, but after the first couple of months, it will be easier than bottles"? Why the insistence on exaggerating the difficulties of formula feeding? (Not wise, because many of these women have ff friends and will see for themselves that it is not some huge, complicated ordeal.)


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
I saw my mother breastfeed my 5 younger siblings, I've breastfed four children, I've seen 15 nieces and nephews bf, plus many friends and LLL group members, and I can tell you that breastfeeding is not like that for most women. Once you get over the learning stage in the beginning, it is normally very easy.

And the fact that you were raised in an environment where breastfeeding was so prevalent probably contributed to your lack of problems.


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## nummies (Jun 9, 2007)

Quote:

Why are people so resistant to the idea of telling new moms, "look, it's not as easy at first, but after the first couple of months, it will be easier than bottles"? Why the insistence on exaggerating the difficulties of formula feeding? (Not wise, because many of these women have ff friends and will see for themselves that it is not some huge, complicated ordeal.)
Geez...When I was pregnant I never even heard that BF was easy!!! I heard "Oh it is so painful!" "Oh your nipples will bleed!" "Oh my nipple about fell off and my son lost 1/2 his body weight, and it sucks being the only one that can feed him!" I only heard horror stories! Not one person said "It's easy just lift shirt and latch.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
Why are people so resistant to the idea of telling new moms, "look, it's not as easy at first, but after the first couple of months, it will be easier than bottles"?

I am not at all resistant to saying that. "bf is easier in the long run" is exactly what I say. Some posters are arguing that ff is easier all around. That's what I disagree with.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nathansmama* 
Geez...When I was pregnant I never even heard that BF was easy!!! I heard "Oh it is so painful!" "Oh your nipples will bleed!" "Oh my nipple about fell off and my son lost 1/2 his body weight, and it sucks being the only one that can feed him!" I only heard horror stories! Not one person said "It's easy just lift shirt and latch.

Maybe that's because you were hearing about it from your friends rather than breastfeeding advocates? I was reading pro-bf sites and books and heard a whole lot of "it's so easy."


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
I am not at all resistant to saying that. "bf is easier in the long run" is exactly what I say. Some posters are arguing that ff is easier all around. That's what I disagree with.

I don't think anyone is arguing that it is always easier for everyone. I think they're simply sharing their own experience of ff being easier. And for some women, ff always will be easier.

I have done both, and overall, I think the ease and convenience is about equal for me. Pumping is a pain, leaking is a pain, NIP is a pain. But it's nice that it's free and I don't have to wash bottles.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
Except that something like 35% of mothers in the U.S. attempt to formula feed and quit before 6 months. In most cases, that's because they never got past the initial difficult stage, and gave up because it was too hard. For them, formula feeding IS easier than breastfeeding ever was.

I've known a few women who breastfed for six months or less. In all cases, they did not quit because it was hard. They stopped breastfeeding because nursing an older baby is "gross" or they "wanted their body back" or so they could be away from baby longer. I've honestly never known anyone IRL that quit breastfeeding because it was too hard.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I think of the "easy" argument for breastfeeding the same way I think of the "it helps you lose weight" argument. Statistically, it may well be true, but it can be a real stumbling block for those for whom it isn't true. I'm a die-hard lactivist--I spent my morning promoting breastfeeding, nursing my babe at a soccer match and a health fair, as well as nursing a teddy bear--and if someone had tried to sell breastfeeding to me with the argument that it was "easy" I'd probably laugh at them. I have big boobs, a hypertonic infant who likes to arch, and an overactive letdown. NIP is difficult and stressful for me. But it's a hassle I would gladly take, compared to the alternative.

I really believe that instead of a flip "breastfeeding is easier," we need to be more specific, and we also need to speak in terms of a range of normal rather than assuming normal is one fixed point on the spectrum.

I've never formula-fed, so I wouldn't presume to know what all goes into it. And I'm someone for whom, despite my issues listed above, breastfeeding has always come amazingly easy, but I know that some women go through Herculean efforts to get breastmilk into their baby, and it's not easy, and I think they deserve a medal for all they do.

It's hard. On the one hand, the "easiness" of breastfeeding can be a real appeal to some mamas. On the other hand, the "easiness" of breastfeeding can also be a real turn-off for the mamas--be they many or few--for whom it doesn't come easily.

Breastfeeding is natural, but it doesn't always come naturally.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
No....the rudeness and judegment is in the posts that claim that
most women who switch to formula are uneducated...ie not as smart as you (general you)
Or that Formula is like kraft mac n cheese
Or that breast feeding is easy for almost every woman (I must be a freak of nature)


Well I've never had kraft mac and cheese, so I can't comment on that but it is a simple truth that most women (not all, but MOST) who switch to formula are uneducated about FF vs BFing. Nothing rude or judgemental about that. And for most (or almost every) woman BFing is easier than FFing, simple fact. Just because you are not like most women does not mean people are calling you a freak of nature.

No reason to cal posters to this thread rude because of those facts.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Re: women who quit because it was too hard- X-posted-

I have but she ended up propping bottles and mixing the formula weak to save money. Her sister is nursing her baby who is only a few months younger and believe me, she's wishing she'd stuck it out.

We're not discussing if breast feeding is EASY. The OP asked if it was _easier_. Mothering isn't easy. Children aren't always easy. Given your choices in the whole infant feeding ballpark, breast feeding is easiest in the long run.

IME, in the short run too. I spent more time that i'd like to admit trying to figure out how to make formula without bubbles in it from shaking or lumps from stirring and then how to get the gunk out of the bottles. Then with my second, I had to pump, fortify with preemie formula, HMF and thick it and then mix it up oh so carefully and then pray she didn't puke every last milliliter up all over herself WITH her meds and aspirate. Then I got to clean the sink full of dishes mixing and pumping required.

And _naturally_, since FF was that hard for me, it must be that hard for everyone.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

*You could never convince me that sterilizing bottles...*

We don't sterilize bottles... I rinse them in the sink when he's done with one, then drop it in the dishwasher, top rack. It comes out clean with the other dishes.

*When I have to wait 3 hrs at the dr's office because he is triple booked that day I don't have to worry that I didn't pack enough bottles (or when a 10hr car ride turns into a 2 day ordeal, or whatever unexpected thing happens)*

If you are planning a big trip, just take a can of powder along; it'll definitely last a while. And if you're taking a day trip, take a Ziplock bag with several bottles' worth of pre-measured formula in it. It's pretty hard to run out unless you totally don't plan ahead. And if you DO run out? Run into a grocery store and pick some more up. It's not THAT different than getting food for yourself.
*

--I don't have to worry about running out of it ever*

This is true. It's a PITA to go to the store, wonder if you have a coupon, wonder if they have your brand, etc. It's annoying, not to mention expensive. We've never technically run out though; we usually buy several cans at one time, and then realized that you can get it auto-shipped over the Internet. (Of course formula companies want to make it easy!)

*
--I don't have to worry about the milk being at the right temp*

What's the "right temperature"? My babe drinks it from the fridge, at room temp, slightly warm, whatever it is at the moment... None the worse for wear...

*--when baby is crying I don't have to think wonder if I should get a bottle ready, I just unlatch my bra and try to latch baby on. If baby is not hungry I have not wasted a whole bottle after baby take 3 sucks.*

You don't actually have to throw out the bottle after three sucks, no matter what the "official" literature tells you. You *can* save it for later. And if you keep a bottle next to you, you can see if the baby wants to latch onto that. You just pick the bottle up and offer it to him; if he doesn't want it, he doesn't, if he does, he does. How is that different than offering the breast?

I'm just playing the devil's advocate here, probably shouldn't. I don't want to seem pro-FF, nor am I trying to be rude to the poster I just finished disagreeing with.







But I do think that there is a myth that FF is so difficult. I don't think it is. It's not natural, it's not the best thing, it's not "just as good" etc. But it's not, technically, difficult... And most of the reasons cited for FF BEING such a PITA are kind of... not really necessary steps. Sterilizing, temperature testing, huge diaper bags, etc. Bah.


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## Therese's Mommy (Jan 15, 2005)

Ok, I am not trying to be snarky or anything like that. But, when women say they have no support or no info about bfing, how can this really be in this day and age? We are pg for 9 mos. Don't all women take this time to read about pregnancy, birth, and taking care of baby? Is it possible in this day and age for a woman to not hear of LLL? I am really just throwing this out there. But there was a comment earlier from someone who said LC said one thing doc said another and then when she went home she had no support. Are there actually places that have no LLL leaders? I know at least 7 in my area and we are not a very progressive area (no birth centers, no midwives, no real birth choices, lots of ffing moms). And even if there aren't any leaders in an area, isn't there a 1-800 number to call? Again, not trying to be snarky, I am really curious. I mean most people get the nursery ready, get the crib set up, get the diapers, so don't most women give a thought to how they are going to feed the baby before baby arrives? I started going to LLL before DD#1 was even born. I understand that some women work and can't get to a meeting, but wouldn't you at least get the numbers of the leaders and maybe make contact beforehand?

Beth


----------



## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Therese's Mommy* 
Ok, I am not trying to be snarky or anything like that. But, when women say they have no support or no info about bfing, how can this really be in this day and age? We are pg for 9 mos. Don't all women take this time to read about pregnancy, birth, and taking care of baby? Is it possible in this day and age for a woman to not hear of LLL? I am really just throwing this out there. But there was a comment earlier from someone who said LC said one thing doc said another and then when she went home she had no support. Are there actually places that have no LLL leaders? I know at least 7 in my area and we are not a very progressive area (no birth centers, no midwives, no real birth choices, lots of ffing moms). And even if there aren't any leaders in an area, isn't there a 1-800 number to call? Again, not trying to be snarky, I am really curious. I mean most people get the nursery ready, get the crib set up, get the diapers, so don't most women give a thought to how they are going to feed the baby before baby arrives? I started going to LLL before DD#1 was even born. I understand that some women work and can't get to a meeting, but wouldn't you at least get the numbers of the leaders and maybe make contact beforehand?

Beth

Well, not everyone has a phone.

Not everyone has a car.

Not everyone feels comfortable talking to a group of strangers (or even one stranger) about her breasts.

And, maybe a lot of women hear that breastfeeding is easy and assume they won't need help and won't have trouble, so they don't seek out help beforehand, because why would you need help for something that's supposed to be easy?


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## Therese's Mommy (Jan 15, 2005)

truemists;9305499
If you are planning a big trip said:


> Well, I can imagine alot of times when I store isn't readily available, again when sitting in a dr's office or some other place where you are waiting for your name to be called. Also, I guess maybe I don't know much about bottles, but I get the can of formula, but then what do I do with that?? Do I have to use a dirty bottle? Or find someplace to clean it? Doesn't sound convenient to me. Also, would I just use water from wherever?
> 
> And not planning ahead? Well, sometimes getting out of the house with children can be difficult. I rarely remember a snack for my 3yo. Perhaps I am just really bad at planning ahead. It was so much easier when she was just bfed.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Therese's Mommy* 
Ok, I am not trying to be snarky or anything like that. But, when women say they have no support or no info about bfing, how can this really be in this day and age? We are pg for 9 mos. Don't all women take this time to read about pregnancy, birth, and taking care of baby? Is it possible in this day and age for a woman to not hear of LLL? I am really just throwing this out there. But there was a comment earlier from someone who said LC said one thing doc said another and then when she went home she had no support. Are there actually places that have no LLL leaders? I know at least 7 in my area and we are not a very progressive area (no birth centers, no midwives, no real birth choices, lots of ffing moms). And even if there aren't any leaders in an area, isn't there a 1-800 number to call?

There is no LLL, or even any unofficial breastfeeding group, within 100 miles of me. For my first birth, there were no LCs at the hospital. Every time I asked a nurse for breastfeeding help, I got a different answer. My doctor told me I HAD to supplement because he was jaundiced. Then she told me I HAD to supplement because he wasn't gaining weight (and he wasn't, it was bad and he was dehydrated, but no one tried to help me fix his latch). I had read many websites and had a stack of books about breastfeeding, but despite everything I tried, it didn't work out. (Well, sort of - we did about 50/50 for 9 months.)

For my second child, the hospital had improved; there were a couple of LCs on staff, and there was another with the county health department who visited me at home after the birth. Both of them managed to get him latched while they were there, but when they were gone, I couldn't do it. In the end, I basically figured it out on my own, but that was after the weeks of problems I posted about above.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Therese's Mommy* 
Also, I guess maybe I don't know much about bottles, but I get the can of formula, but then what do I do with that?? Do I have to use a dirty bottle? Or find someplace to clean it?

Bring along a bottle with the right amount of water already in it.


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## Therese's Mommy (Jan 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Well, not everyone has a phone.

Not everyone has a car.

Not everyone feels comfortable talking to a group of strangers (or even one stranger) about her breasts.


Nope, that is true, a friend of mine was a leader in a place that was just like that. Many didn't have cars or phones. She got lots of calls from men who were calling from pay phones for there wive's/so's/or whoever. And I understand that not everyone has someone who can run out to a pay phone when trouble arises, but there are 9mos to seek info.

And really, with the reading I did, nowhere did I get the impression that I would just be able to bf with no help. That is why I sought help beforehand. I was really led to believe that it would be hard. And in the beginning there were struggles.


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## Therese's Mommy (Jan 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
There is no LLL, or even any unofficial breastfeeding group, within 100 miles of me.

This is good to know. See, from my experience, LLL leaders are everywhere. I feel bad for anyone who doesn't have that near them.


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## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Therese's Mommy* 
Well, I can imagine alot of times when I store isn't readily available, again when sitting in a dr's office or some other place where you are waiting for your name to be called. Also, I guess maybe I don't know much about bottles, but I get the can of formula, but then what do I do with that?? Do I have to use a dirty bottle? Or find someplace to clean it? Doesn't sound convenient to me. Also, would I just use water from wherever?

And not planning ahead? Well, sometimes getting out of the house with children can be difficult. I rarely remember a snack for my 3yo. Perhaps I am just really bad at planning ahead. It was so much easier when she was just bfed.

I bring bottled water in each bottle, and keep a small plastic container with powder in my diaper bag. I keep a small measuring scoop in that container, so it's no more work than making a bottle at home, and no need to refrigerate it. If I need to re-sue the bottle, I just rinse it out. If I'll be somewhere where clean water isn't available, I bring 2 or 3 pre-filled bottles.

Planning ahead - if formula is what you're accustomed to, it's just part of the deal of getting out of the house. For me, formula is a necessity as I'm a bfar mom and I can't supply my son with enough breastmilk for his survival. I've learned to make formula use as convenient as possible, and it hardly intrudes on my day at all, perhaps I spend a grand total of 15 minutes on it overall.


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## Therese's Mommy (Jan 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
Bring along a bottle with the right amount of water already in it.


Again, I rarely remember a drink and snack for 3yo. Perhaps I am just a really absentminded mom


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Then again, I'm also curious about why it's so important for our (chosen?) method of feeding to be EASY. Even in the mainstream world it's WIDELY acknowledged that it's not easy to be a parent. (Duh!!







) And that the easiest route is not always the best.

But it's still a valid mainstream argument that "it's OK to switch to formula because it's easier than BF." I don't think that's a valid argument, really, for the reasons mentioned above.

But isn't the whole "BF is easier!" argument just the flip side of the same coin?

If it's best for your child, should it not matter either way?


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## Therese's Mommy (Jan 15, 2005)

Ok, excuse my ignorance...what does "bfar" mean? I assume it is not a typo because it is in the post and in the siggie. Thanks.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Even if I just have the same bottle to use, I buy a bottled water. (I keep some in my trunk too.) I've heard the arguments that they can have bacteria but I've never had an issue. You empty the old bottle, pour a little water, shake enough to rinse it out, then fill it up as usual. Is it sterile? No. Is it going to hurt the baby? Not in my experience.

And what I was staying about the store, if you went on a 10 hour trip that tirned into a 2 day trip, I'm guessing you didn't bring along enough food for yourself either. And if you're going somewhere without stores, well, er... I would either plan really well ahead or not go there with a baby in the first place. Either or.

Breastfeeding IS. VERY. CONVENIENT.














No doubt about it. But bringing food for a baby is not much harder to do than bringing food along for an older child.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Breastfeeding after reduction maybe?


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

I was young when I had my first. I had the what to expect book and some other crappy books. I had an old school OB who was supposed to be pro bf, he was not. Nor was he even slightly educated on breastfeeding. My family knew nada and were no help. I wanted to breastfeed very much but with no internet, no doc to help, no LC available after I left the hospital and no LLL to help, I failed miserably. The LC I saw gave me a nipple shield and left for vacation. I got the number and called LLL repeatedly and left messages. No one ever called back. I got terrible mastitis and went back to the doc who bound my breasts, gave me antibiotics and sent me packing with an enfamil diaper bag full of junk. That was that. I didn't feel unprepared for 9 months. I took all the classes and thought I had support in place. How was I to know that the information I was given was wrong? That the support I was counting on would not be there?

It happens.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Honest show of hands. How many mamas who exclusively breast fed their babes at one point when their little one was say oh around 12 or 13 months old and still BFing a ton, but also on solids have had an extra busy day where at around dinner time you look at your child and say







"oh, I forgot to feed you today!"

Of course you BF'ed them, just no solids.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

That's a sorry feeling isn't it? I've done it many times. He never minded.


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## SleepyMamaBear (Jun 5, 2005)

i have only read the first post.

i am a bfar mam using a lact-aid to supply donor milk to dd2. its STILL easier than bottle feeding formula to dd1.
and nursing makes me MAKE time to sit and snuggle and bond,. something no ammount of feeding help from others could replace


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## Mandynee22 (Nov 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
Tap water has fluoride in it.

Yours might. Mine doesn't


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## CalebsMama05 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
I hear mom's IRL and on MDC say that Breastfeeding is SOOO much easier than formula feeding.

I have also read this in a lot of breastfeeding literature.

depends how you define *easier*. does it have a shorter prep time? yes it does! does it have less *stuff*? yes! does it make for faster feeding times? no it didn't for me.

but I still say its easier cuz I would forget my head if it wasn't attached and I can't count how much money I ended up wasting on ds1 buying a can of formula and a bottle cuz I forgot them at home.


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## mf_colon (Oct 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Therese's Mommy* 
Ok, I am not trying to be snarky or anything like that. But, when women say they have no support or no info about bfing, how can this really be in this day and age? We are pg for 9 mos. Don't all women take this time to read about pregnancy, birth, and taking care of baby? Is it possible in this day and age for a woman to not hear of LLL? I am really just throwing this out there. But there was a comment earlier from someone who said LC said one thing doc said another and then when she went home she had no support. Are there actually places that have no LLL leaders? I know at least 7 in my area and we are not a very progressive area (no birth centers, no midwives, no real birth choices, lots of ffing moms). And even if there aren't any leaders in an area, isn't there a 1-800 number to call? Again, not trying to be snarky, I am really curious. I mean most people get the nursery ready, get the crib set up, get the diapers, so don't most women give a thought to how they are going to feed the baby before baby arrives? I started going to LLL before DD#1 was even born. I understand that some women work and can't get to a meeting, but wouldn't you at least get the numbers of the leaders and maybe make contact beforehand?

Beth

As a PP said, sometimes their is no LLL in the area and LC's in hospitals these days just plain suck. I had so much trouble with BF at first and I had read the literature and talked to people but it is a much different thing when you are actually DOING it.

As for the OP, I will admit BF was harder for me in the beginning. Now that DD is almost 8 months it is much easier.

But I will agree, the one thing that FF has over BF is that other people can feed you baby and take the duty over for you. I sometimes resent the fact that DD will not take a bottle (especially when you are tired, stressed, etc...)

But other than that, I agree that BF is easier than FF with regards to the other factors already mentioned here.


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## Mandynee22 (Nov 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artgoddess* 
Honest show of hands. How many mamas who exclusively breast fed their babes at one point when their little one was say oh around 12 or 13 months old and still BFing a ton, but also on solids have had an extra busy day where at around dinner time you look at your child and say







"oh, I forgot to feed you today!"

Of course you BF'ed them, just no solids.









HAHA I hope you weren't kidding... because I've done that. A lot LOL


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mf_colon* 
But I will agree, the one thing that FF has over BF is that other people can feed you baby and take the duty over for you. I sometimes resent the fact that DD will not take a bottle (especially when you are tired, stressed, etc...)

That assumes there's someone around who is willing to FF your baby (and that you're OK with that, of course). I was just saying on another post how in the six months or so of DS's life, he has been fed, I think... twice? three times? By others. And that was while I was still sitting there; Grandma and a friend wanted to feed the cute baby. Feeding him is still MY job exclusively. I don't exactly mind though; it's part of the job description of being a mommy.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Okay, I have only read 50 posts so far, and have to run to a dinner for my dad's b-day, so forgive me if this has been said....but 30 mins. to breastfeed a baby? Seriously? I guess every baby is different, but I am lucky if I could keep either of my babes at the breast for 10 mins! They were snackers, eat and run. If they'd been eating formula, I would have been heating up bottles all day long.

Now, that being said, I haven't ever formula fed. But, I do have a friend who breastfed for 9 weeks, and then switched to formula. Not because it was easier, but because she was giving baby bottles of breastmilk and a pacifier and baby developed a nipple preference and refused the breast so she eventually had to switch to formula. I remember the day she showed up at my house for a visit when baby was 7 months old. Baby was hungry and she went to the diaper bag and she hadn't closed the lid of the bottle properly. The formula had spilled inside her diaper bag (lucky she had a bunch of sposies in there which wicked it all up!). She then had no food for baby, so had to go home and she'd only been over for 5 minutes. She was crying when she left saying how much she hated formula feeding because it was such a pain.


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## bdavis337 (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jörð* 
Breastfeeding after reduction maybe?

Yep.

We could debate this till the cows come home and not get anyone to agree. The bottle line is that SOME moms consider ff'ing "easier" than bf'ing, and that might be their main reason for choosing it. Not a very good reason, imo, but a reason nonetheless. *I* chose ff'ing b/c it was the only way to provide my children with enough food to keep them alive. While I find ff'ing to be a pita at times, I still can't say that it's difficult, to be honest. No more difficult than the other "mom" stuff I have to do, like washing diapers or what have you. So yeah, saying ff'ing is too complicated really doesn't convince a lot of people, but if it's not what you're accustomed to, it can be a bit time consuming.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bdavis337* 
We could debate this till the cows come home and not get anyone to agree. The bottle line is that SOME moms consider ff'ing "easier" than bf'ing, and that might be their main reason for choosing it. Not a very good reason, imo, but a reason nonetheless. *I* chose ff'ing b/c it was the only way to provide my children with enough food to keep them alive. While I find ff'ing to be a pita at times, I still can't say that it's difficult, to be honest. No more difficult than the other "mom" stuff I have to do, like washing diapers or what have you. So yeah, saying ff'ing is too complicated really doesn't convince a lot of people, but if it's not what you're accustomed to, it can be a bit time consuming.

Well said...


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lml41981* 
You shouldn't. Even the American Dental Association has issued a statement saying that infants shouldn't have formula mixed with tap water. You should use bottled water that is free of fluoride (and chlorine and all the other nasty stuff that is put in tap water).


i'd also like to point out another reason not to use warm tap water...warm water sits in your hot water heater for a bit, and often has deposits in it from that.

same reason as you shouldn't make food or coffee with warm tap.


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
Except that something like 35% of mothers in the U.S. attempt to formula feed and quit before 6 months. In most cases, that's because they never got past the initial difficult stage, and gave up because it was too hard. For them, formula feeding IS easier than breastfeeding ever was.

35% is not most







:

Quote:

Why are people so resistant to the idea of telling new moms, "look, it's not as easy at first, but after the first couple of months, it will be easier than bottles"? Why the insistence on exaggerating the difficulties of formula feeding? (Not wise, because many of these women have ff friends and will see for themselves that it is not some huge, complicated ordeal.)
The one person I said that to... my SIL brushed me off like there was no way it could be hard... and then when she had difficulties, she acted like I had never said it







: She makes me crazy, though, did I mention that?


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Juvysen* 
35% is not most







:

But 35% is out of the total 100% of mothers, another 40% or so of whom never breastfeed at all. And some of the ones who breastfeed do so even though it is harder for them (like me, and some of the other posters on this thread). So out of those who DO breastfeed at all, I bet more than 50% (=most







) find it harder than using formula.


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
But 35% is out of the total 100% of mothers, another 40% or so of whom never breastfeed at all. And some of the ones who breastfeed do so even though it is harder for them (like me, and some of the other posters on this thread). So out of those who DO breastfeed at all, I bet more than 50% (=most







) find it harder than using formula.

Granted... but I wonder what the percentages are like in other countries. Although, that might be like comparing apples to oranges because the amount of support (i.e. watching your mother and other women breastfeeding) would probably be different. Not being snarky, but, I have a hard time believing that almost 75% of babies would die if not for formula... or, rather, the percentage would be lower than that, but it is still a phenomenally high percentage of the population who can't/won't make it through the first year of breastfeeding, in terms of species survival, were there no formula, no?

Again, that wasn't meant as anything snarky, I prefer to look at things in terms of biology, so this is purely from a biological standpoint.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bdavis337* 
While I find ff'ing to be a pita at times, I still can't say that it's difficult, to be honest. No more difficult than the other "mom" stuff I have to do, like washing diapers or what have you.

I don't think ff is difficult, but I do think breastfeeding is _easier_. Now, there are some special circumstances that make bf more difficult for some people, like breast reduction surgery or flat nipples, but under ordinary circumstances bfing is easier.


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## AutumnNoelle (Sep 23, 2007)

I think breastfeeding is easier.. although it was rough in the beginning. I've done both. I formula fed my 1st daughter after the first month because well, everyone was telling me just to give her formula and I didn't know any better. Only 18 and wasn't raised in a "natural" home.
With this one, my 2 month old, I'm only breastfeeding. I like not having to put water filled bottles in a diaper bag along with formula, ya know, having to lug all that stuff around. I like not having to make my daughter wait to get her milk. I love the connection the two of us have made. At night when she's hungry, I just lay there and let her nurse while I drift back to sleep. No getting up to make bottles. I hate the way that formula feels. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
So yeah, breastfeeding is easier.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TechnoGranola* 
Okay, I have only read 50 posts so far, and have to run to a dinner for my dad's b-day, so forgive me if this has been said....but 30 mins. to breastfeed a baby? Seriously? I guess every baby is different, but I am lucky if I could keep either of my babes at the breast for 10 mins! They were snackers, eat and run. If they'd been eating formula, I would have been heating up bottles all day long.


Oh yeah! My son was was a 45min-90min piddler (or maybe my breasts were!







). By the time we were done nursing, burping and changing his diaper, it would almost be time for the next feeding again. Even now at 17mos, he'd take his sweet time.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Juvysen* 
Granted... but I wonder what the percentages are like in other countries. Although, that might be like comparing apples to oranges because the amount of support (i.e. watching your mother and other women breastfeeding) would probably be different. Not being snarky, but, I have a hard time believing that almost 75% of babies would die if not for formula...

Well, of course not. That's not the point. The point is that as things stand now in America, it is genuinely easier for most, or at least many, women to formula feed than to breastfeed. If you want to get more women breastfeeding, that's a reality you have to deal with.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
Well, of course not. That's not the point. The point is that as things stand now in America, it is genuinely easier for most, or at least many, women to formula feed than to breastfeed.

Just because most women formula feed, doesn't mean it is easier.


----------



## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
Just because most women formula feed, doesn't mean it is easier.

It doesn't necessarily mean it's easier for them, but I believe it's easier for many of them. If breastfeeding really were that easy for them, more of them would be doing it.


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
he digested the Goat's milk much easier than my breast milk.

I'm sorry, but no WAY will I believe a child digested another mammals breastmilk better than it's mother's. Sorry. It's scientifically impractical to assert so.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
If you're co-sleeping, which I do NOT plan to do (ever), I can possibly see how bfing might be easier, but aside from the mom's at MDC, the average American parent does not co-sleep. That means getting up every 1-2 hours for the forseeable future. It means you can never get a full night of sleep. And I know that most moms on here are okay with whipping it out in public, but I'm a little more shy. I see it being a PITA to try to cover up in public. It was a PITA to try to hide my boob from my ILs and my family.



Quote:


Originally Posted by *ksera05* 
Actually, I think someone did a study awhile ago that showed that something like 80% of American parents cosleep at least a few times with their infants - it's just not talked about because it's "shameful".

I totally agree. Breastfeeding just is not supported like it should be. At all.

OP - I've done both and breastfeeding was easier, hands down no question. But it took a lot of work to get to the point of it being easier.









:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
I never experienced anything like what you are describing. My son puked up breastmilk way more than the Goats Milk. I think a lot of it has to do with the quality of the formula you are supplementing with.
Goats Milk doesn't mess up a baby's tummy the same way cow or soy milk does.

But I cannot imagine watching a baby go through what you described. That is so sad. I bet a lot of people who FF don't realize that isn't normal.







:

Spitting up is normal baby behavior.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jörð* 
I have to wonder how on earth you know that?

Exactly.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ananas* 
I actually had to check to see if I was still on MDC.







:

There is *no* good formula. There is no formula that is anywhere NEAR breastmilk in terms of quality.

Could there have been a reason he was puking up the breastmilk that you didn't look into? An allergy? Perhaps he was sensitive to dairy or wheat or any other food?









: thank-you

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
I wanted to quote this to make sure everyone reads it again.

It is beyond me why so many people on this board refuse to get this point. I have had this same argument here before and been accused of promoting formula.







It infuriates me to hear people out there telling new moms, "oh, it's so easy, just pull up your shirt and latch him on!" because for so many of them, that's not how it works - and they think they have to give up because it's not working.

I was supplementing for a while with this baby while my hideously cracked nipples healed up and I ep'ed. We're back to ebf now and yes, it is getting easier. But this was my experience when we were supplementing:

Formula feed - dump powder and water into bottle, shake bottle, feed baby, burp baby, get spit up on.

Breastfeed - Get into position on the couch. Arrange pillows. Set baby on pillows. Attempt latch. Repeat until nipple is bleeding. Try other side. Attempt latch again. Try cross-cradle hold. Switch to cradle hold. Try football hold. Offer up a prayer that he finally latched this time. Try not to scream out loud in pain, because that will make him unlatch. When he's done, burp him, get spit up on. Then put Lansinoh on bleeding nipples and remember to use nursing pads, so you don't get blood on all your bras.

Does anyone here seriously want to argue that a new mother who's been told repeatedly that breastfeeding is easier, and who hasn't been warned about this kind of difficulty, would be able to get through that stage without feeling like a failure - or like she'd been lied to? Does anyone honestly think that you can convince someone in that kind of situation that breastfeeding is EASY?

It's not always easy. It hasn't been for me. It's worth it, but it's not EASY.

You must accept however that MOST women do NOT go through that.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
Except that something like 35% of mothers in the U.S. *attempt to formula feed and quit before 6 months.* In most cases, that's because they never got past the initial difficult stage, and gave up because it was too hard. For them, formula feeding IS easier than breastfeeding ever was.

Why are people so resistant to the idea of telling new moms, "look, it's not as easy at first, but after the first couple of months, it will be easier than bottles"? Why the insistence on exaggerating the difficulties of formula feeding? (Not wise, because many of these women have ff friends and will see for themselves that it is not some huge, complicated ordeal.)

If only the bolded part were true. Quite a funny fraudian slip there.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Therese's Mommy* 
Ok, excuse my ignorance...what does "bfar" mean? I assume it is not a typo because it is in the post and in the siggie. Thanks.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jörð* 
Breastfeeding after reduction maybe?









:


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
If breastfeeding really were that easy for them, more of them would be doing it.

Millions of dollars are spent marketing formula. In this consumer-based society, we are convinced to buy things we don't need every day. You should read Milk, Money and Madness.


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

I think the OP raises a good topic. How can yo be a better lactivist, essentially. She believes that by being truthful about the possible difficulties wrt BF, you can convince more moms to stick it out.

Dissmissing the very real problems new mothers face, *in this culture*, is negligent advocacy. Most of us haven't grown up watching female relatives nurse or live in a BF friendly environment. Some women don't have helpful partners (who probably won't be that helpfull w/ bottles, either) to support them in the learning curve. The least you can do is be honest that BFing can take some effort and sometimes pain, but it's worth it.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mandynee22* 
HAHA I hope you weren't kidding... because I've done that. A lot LOL

Oh thank you for responding, I was starting to think I was the only one!


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Point taken.


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## avedagrrl (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Therese's Mommy
Ok, I am not trying to be snarky or anything like that. But, when women say they have no support or no info about bfing, how can this really be in this day and age? We are pg for 9 mos. Don't all women take this time to read about pregnancy, birth, and taking care of baby? Is it possible in this day and age for a woman to not hear of LLL? I am really just throwing this out there. But there was a comment earlier from someone who said LC said one thing doc said another and then when she went home she had no support. Are there actually places that have no LLL leaders? I know at least 7 in my area and we are not a very progressive area (no birth centers, no midwives, no real birth choices, lots of ffing moms). And even if there aren't any leaders in an area, isn't there a 1-800 number to call? Again, not trying to be snarky, I am really curious. I mean most people get the nursery ready, get the crib set up, get the diapers, so don't most women give a thought to how they are going to feed the baby before baby arrives? I started going to LLL before DD#1 was even born. I understand that some women work and can't get to a meeting, but wouldn't you at least get the numbers of the leaders and maybe make contact beforehand?
I knew I would BF my baby. I read a lot of books about pregnancy, but didn't really realize that I would even need books about BFing. It never occurred to me that I would need a huge support system. I honestly thought that I would be able to figure it out, I'm smart, I was certain I could do it. I had NEVER heard it was hard - the board mamas I knew said "Oh, baby is nursing like a champ!" I had seen my aunt BF her two kids 10 years previously, never heard her say she had any issues. I just truly believed it would be as easy as show the baby the breast and the baby will nurse.

What a shock for me! LOL! I tried desperately to reach out for help after we got home. The LLL leader I spoke with sent me literature about engorgement. She never offered to help me in 3D. The private LCs I called never returned my calls. The hospital LC never returned my calls. I have never felt so scared and alone in my life than I did the first day I was home alone with my DS. I screamed for help and got nothing. The BF books I got had great words, but I really needed some hands on help.

I agree with PPs that to be effective lactavists, we need to consider that many women are insufficiently educated and supported. I also believe that for many women, the lack of BFing in our own upbringing has left a deep deficiency in our ability to begin BFing easily. I believe that we are changing that dynamic for our own kids, but there's lots of NIP to be done!


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## prettymom (Feb 23, 2007)

Some EBFers might be honest and say BF is a lot of work, but I think it comes down to that it is harder to feed a baby than to not feed a baby.

For me, BF was really easy. DD has always been super efficient, latched and done usually within five minutes unless she is sleepy or nursing for comfort. We had a really great start minutes after birth (I was already flowing with milk) and I never experienced sore nipples. I can also usually nurse in my sleep. However, if I was trying to convince a new mom to breastfeed I would make sure she understands that not everyone has my experience. And the cost is much easier on the bank account!

I have formula fed while babysitting other babies and find it to be much more work (making sure the water is safe, right temp, not too many bubbles, stopping to burp more, more spit-up, washing bottles, etc.)

I would say the one easier part of formula feeding is that it does lessen the dependence of the baby on the mother, which while easier, isn't always desirable.


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## avedagrrl (Sep 17, 2007)

As I am reading and thinking, it seems to me that each of our BFing/FFing stories are as different and varied as each of our birth experiences are. The relative ease or difficulty for one mama does not negate or lessen the experience of another.


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## ~Boudicca~ (Sep 7, 2005)

Haven't read all of the posts, but in my experiences Bf is about a hundred times easier than formula feeding. And yes, I have done both. DD1 was born pissed off about being born and I could never get her to latch on (after about 3 weeks of trying in addition to some seriously damaged nipples) and I had NO support whatsoever from family and friends, and I was simply ignorant to many of the ins and outs of nursing. So I pumped until Zoe was about 7 months old, and then when my supply started to seriously drop off we switched to formula.

With Avery, given my failure to nurse her sister, I was more experienced, more knowledgeable, and had a better support system. Also, I was more determined. Sometimes I think I had another baby simply so I could prove to myself and all of the not supportive people that I could nurse my babies after all. We are nursing all the time except when I am at work (3 days a week for about 6 hours at a shot). And for whatever reason, Avery takes like 25 minutes to finish a 4 ounce bottle, but when she nurses she is super efficient and gets it done in about 10 minutes, 15 tops.

IME, formula feeding SUCKED! Yes, nursing was difficult for me and DD2 at first, but the technical difficulties were resolved within about 4 weeks. Yes, it hurt at first. But we moved on. As far as freedom is concerned, I feel as though that is _my_ job to feed my child, therefore I am not going to pass her off onto DH to feed her with a bottle. That is not what freedom is to me. Freedom to me is to not to have to remember to pack all of the bottle making stuff, just a few diapers and I am on my merry way. I don't have to plan my trips around how many bottles I have on hand (like I did with dd1) and I don't worry about running out of formula. Coming home from work and realizing that DH used the last of the bottle liners while I was gone and having to go back out to buy some more to make sure I have them for her next feeding is a PITA problem that doesn't exist anymore.

And as for nighttime, I think every morning when we get up that I wish I had nursed Zoe successfully because it sure is easier to pop a boob in Avery's mouth and go back to sleep than it is to go downstairs, grab a bottle from the fridge, and wait for it to heat up in the water bath.

I often regret not nursing Zoe because now I see how much easier it is to just nurse.


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## ~Boudicca~ (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *avedagrrl* 
As I am reading and thinking, it seems to me that each of our BFing/FFing stories are as different and varied as each of our birth experiences are. The relative ease or difficulty for one mama does not negate or lessen the experience of another.

And I really agree with this post.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Therese's Mommy* 
Ok, I am not trying to be snarky or anything like that. But, when women say they have no support or no info about bfing, how can this really be in this day and age? We are pg for 9 mos. Don't all women take this time to read about pregnancy, birth, and taking care of baby? Is it possible in this day and age for a woman to not hear of LLL? I am really just throwing this out there. But there was a comment earlier from someone who said LC said one thing doc said another and then when she went home she had no support. Are there actually places that have no LLL leaders? I know at least 7 in my area and we are not a very progressive area (no birth centers, no midwives, no real birth choices, lots of ffing moms). And even if there aren't any leaders in an area, isn't there a 1-800 number to call? Again, not trying to be snarky, I am really curious. I mean most people get the nursery ready, get the crib set up, get the diapers, so don't most women give a thought to how they are going to feed the baby before baby arrives? I started going to LLL before DD#1 was even born. I understand that some women work and can't get to a meeting, but wouldn't you at least get the numbers of the leaders and maybe make contact beforehand?

Beth

OK, I can answer that one.

I'm a total info geek. I read all the books, but very carefully avoided the sections on problems - because you know, that'd just make you into a hypochondriac







So I knew how to hold a newborn and latch them, and that's it.

I took a class. She read the 101 reasons, showed us how to hold and latch a baby, and that eating listeria foods wasn't a great idea while BFing (yeah, I know, I told her she was wrong, don't worry).

I investigated lactation consultants, and how to get my insurance to cover them, looked up the LLL info.

I thought I was well prepared.







I had this idea in my head that breastfed babies eat about once every three hours, and was very very surprised when that turned out to not be the case. But I took it in stride.

I had a heap of issues in the first week, all overcome by other people's motivation and help, not mine. i just sorta followed along. If the day nurse had been my only nurse it would have been MUCH harder to overcome her bad advice. The night nurse actually got my baby to latch, and she sent us home BFing.

But come two weeks when she starts cluster feeding it's so patently obvious to me that there's no milk there for her in the evenings, and pumping to give a bottle at that time is so very very clearly the only logical way to go, and not getting much when I pump is confirmation that there's not much there. We didn't have any problems that we needed help with, did we. I mean, it was clear and obvious, wasn't it?

The only reason I wasn't a FF feeder by three weeks after that was because I was googling while I pumped. And I was ASTOUNDED when I found out about cluster feeding, and why not to give a bottle, and switch feeding, and just plain fussy evenings. I had NO idea, and I had NO idea how very very close we'd been to sabotaging everything. It NEVER crossed my mind to ask for advice, because it seemed obvious and logical, like every second woman who posts and says she has low supply when she doesn't.

You have to know what info to and look for, you have to have cousins and sisters and mothers looking over your shoulder and (unprompted) saying "woah, I remember Sarah doing that as a baby. Hang in there, it'll get better, it doesn't mean you have low supply". Half of the people who sabotage themselves never even realise they don't actually have a problem, or that the things they're doing are actively detrimental to the nursing relationship.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Most of the articles I read that you linked to are saying that enfamil is better than Goats Milk.

That is not true, and my son did FANTASTIC on the goats milk formula.

dubfam, yes, that is correct. Enfamil is better than goats milk for human babies.


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## grumpybear (Oct 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
OK, I can answer that one.

I'm a total info geek. I read all the books, but very carefully avoided the sections on problems - because you know, that'd just make you into a hypochondriac







So I knew how to hold a newborn and latch them, and that's it.

I took a class. She read the 101 reasons, showed us how to hold and latch a baby, and that eating listeria foods wasn't a great idea while BFing (yeah, I know, I told her she was wrong, don't worry).

I investigated lactation consultants, and how to get my insurance to cover them, looked up the LLL info.

I thought I was well prepared.







I had this idea in my head that breastfed babies eat about once every three hours, and was very very surprised when that turned out to not be the case. But I took it in stride.

I had a heap of issues in the first week, all overcome by other people's motivation and help, not mine. i just sorta followed along. If the day nurse had been my only nurse it would have been MUCH harder to overcome her bad advice. The night nurse actually got my baby to latch, and she sent us home BFing.

But come two weeks when she starts cluster feeding it's so patently obvious to me that there's no milk there for her in the evenings, and pumping to give a bottle at that time is so very very clearly the only logical way to go, and not getting much when I pump is confirmation that there's not much there. We didn't have any problems that we needed help with, did we. I mean, it was clear and obvious, wasn't it?

The only reason I wasn't a FF feeder by three weeks after that was because I was googling while I pumped. And I was ASTOUNDED when I found out about cluster feeding, and why not to give a bottle, and switch feeding, and just plain fussy evenings. I had NO idea, and I had NO idea how very very close we'd been to sabotaging everything. It NEVER crossed my mind to ask for advice, because it seemed obvious and logical, like every second woman who posts and says she has low supply when she doesn't.

You have to know what info to and look for, you have to have cousins and sisters and mothers looking over your shoulder and (unprompted) saying "woah, I remember Sarah doing that as a baby. Hang in there, it'll get better, it doesn't mean you have low supply". Half of the people who sabotage themselves never even realise they don't actually have a problem, or that the things they're doing are actively detrimental to the nursing relationship.


OMG. You just described me!


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## PatchyMama (Dec 6, 2002)

I really don't feel like reading this entire thread so I am just going to post my own experience









My first DD was formula fed. My second DD was (and still is) breastfed. Breastfeeding was FAR easier than formula feeding for us.


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## Draupadi (Jul 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grumpybear* 
Oh yeah! My son was was a 45min-90min piddler (or maybe my breasts were!







). By the time we were done nursing, burping and changing his diaper, it would almost be time for the next feeding again. Even now at 17mos, he'd take his sweet time.

Mine too. He used to take up to an hour! These days, it's more like 30-40minutes.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Juvysen* 
Granted... but I wonder what the percentages are like in other countries. Although, that might be like comparing apples to oranges because the amount of support (i.e. watching your mother and other women breastfeeding) would probably be different. Not being snarky, but, I have a hard time believing that almost 75% of babies would die if not for formula... or, rather, the percentage would be lower than that, but it is still a phenomenally high percentage of the population who can't/won't make it through the first year of breastfeeding, in terms of species survival, were there no formula, no?

Again, that wasn't meant as anything snarky, I prefer to look at things in terms of biology, so this is purely from a biological standpoint.










I think this is interesting too. I don't for a moment think that 75% of babies stay alive because of formula. However I think this has two angles to think about... 1) Like a PP mentioned, if a woman couldn't successfully breastfeed, she would often give the baby to nurse from another local woman. 2) We keep a lot of people alive that "biologically" shouldn't be alive... whether or not you agree with it. Heck, if I was living in a survival of the fittest society, I'd have been probably dead as a little kid because of my horrendous eyesight. A wolf would probably have got me when I sat down on it, thinking it was a boulder.


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## sanguine_speed (May 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FancyD* 
I think the OP raises a good topic. How can yo be a better lactivist, essentially. She believes that by being truthful about the possible difficulties wrt BF, you can convince more moms to stick it out.

Dissmissing the very real problems new mothers face, *in this culture*, is negligent advocacy. Most of us haven't grown up watching female relatives nurse or live in a BF friendly environment. Some women don't have helpful partners (who probably won't be that helpfull w/ bottles, either) to support them in the learning curve. The least you can do is be honest that BFing can take some effort and sometimes pain, but it's worth it.

ITA with this.

It also goes along with my point that breastfeeding can cost a lot of money. Yes, breastfeeding can be easy and cheap (even free), but it isn't always, and it IS negligent advocacy to fail to mention these possibilities.


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

I would argue that for almost everyone, breastfeeding *while, maybe not FREE* is still cheaper than formula... even if you count nursing bras, supplements, hospital grade pumps, etc. FF is crazy expensive!

Truemists, you're right... we probably do keep many alive that wouldn't otherwise be alive, however, I'm thinking that's probably more like 6% or something. Under 25%, anyway, and that's including lots of issues, I believe. Anyway, I expect the point is moot, because I guess there would be a lot more support and incentive for people to continue breastfeeding if formula wasn't readily available. Maybe it's lucky that we have such "choice", but it's sad that it undermines those (though lack of support, or whatever) who *want* to breastfeed and would be able to more easily (although, who knows if it'd be called *easily*) with said support.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
dubfam, yes, that is correct. Enfamil is better than goats milk for human babies.

I would like to know what other research you have done. This is something that I have spent 4 years researching, and talking to health care providers as well as other people whose children thrived on Goats milk Formula.

If Goats Milk is bad for babies then why are there formulas made with Goats Milk?

Because it is EASIER To digest (for a lot of babies) than Soy or Cows milk, and it is more similar to human breast milk.

Here is info regarding Goats Milk formula, including advice from Dr Sears saying that this is a really good alternative if you have to switch to formula

http://www.colichelp.com/cgi/frameit.../3/T032400.asp

http://www.colichelp.com/cgi/frameit...page.cfm?id=26

http://www.colichelp.com/cgi/frameit...net/page3.html

And I could provide lots more, but that really isn't the point of this thread.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

None of those links work and being all from the same website, that doesn't reflect years of research.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pynki* 
I'm sorry, but no WAY will I believe a child digested another mammals breastmilk better than it's mother's. Sorry. It's scientifically impractical to assert so.


I don't know WHY my son had such a horrible time with my breast milk, but he did. He screamed for an hour every time he had to poop. He would projectile vomit. He would get constipated.

None of that happened when we switched to the Goats Milk Formula.

Obviously in a normal BFing relationship a baby is going to digest breast milk MUCH better than anything else.

But there were issues that I didn't understand at the time ( I still don;t know what went wrong exactly) that caused my son to get sick from my breast milk.

It was probably an allergy but we were never able to figure out WHAT it was.

A big part of the reason that I didn't supplement with formula AT ALL before my son got FTT at 5 months was that I figured if he was having a hard time digesting my breast milk that he would get REALLY sick from formula.
And I still think that he would have gotten REALLY sick from soy or cows milk formulas. That is the reason that we chose to do Goats Milk.

And life was much better for everyone (DP, DS, My Mother and I) afterwards. It was a HUGE relief to not have to watch our little guy in horrible pain every day.

People have all different types of experiences in life. We can either learn from each other or we can accuse each other of lying, I guess.

I would rather learn...which is why I started this thread. I have no motivation to lie about my experiences feeding my son and what worked FOR US.

So Pynki, I guess you can decide to believe what you want to. It doesn't change the truth about what MY FAMILY experienced with breast feeding.

.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jörð* 
None of those links work and being all from the same website, that doesn't reflect years of research.

The links all work just fine, and they all link to DIFFERENT websites.

Maybe you will have better luck if you try again?


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

FrameIt 5.13a
Advanced Link Redirector
ERROR: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...759246&page=12 is not authorized to use this script.

Please use the back button on your browser to return to the previous screen. If you continue to have problems, please contact the webmaster.

Powered By VerySimple Scripts


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

It looks like they are all to colichelp.com and they still don't work for me.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

They all link to different web sites, the path just goes through another web site.
(colic help)

They are still working fine for me, every time I click on them it pulls the pages up.

anyone else having probs?


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Is it a site you have to be registered at?


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

no...it should just take you right to the page.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
They all link to different web sites, the path just goes through another web site.
(colic help)

They are still working fine for me, every time I click on them it pulls the pages up.

anyone else having probs?









They do not work for me either. I get the same error message as the previous poster received.

Perhaps if you just posted the links to the resulting web page rather than colichelp, we could get there.

Thanks!


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Alrighty then. It doesn't.

It's ridiculous to try to prove that goats milk is better or worse than formula. Both are substandard and neither a cow or goats milk are intended or appropriate for a human child. I'm sorry to say, I don't believe for a second that any child should have goats milk rather than human. And healthy- except that whole failure to thrive thing doesn't do much for that argument.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
I would like to know what other research you have done. This is something that I have spent 4 years researching, and talking to health care providers as well as other people whose children thrived on Goats milk Formula.

If Goats Milk is bad for babies then why are there formulas made with Goats Milk?

Because it is EASIER To digest (for a lot of babies) than Soy or Cows milk, and it is more similar to human breast milk.

Here is info regarding Goats Milk formula, including advice from Dr Sears saying that this is a really good alternative if you have to switch to formula

http://www.colichelp.com/cgi/frameit.../3/T032400.asp

http://www.colichelp.com/cgi/frameit...page.cfm?id=26

http://www.colichelp.com/cgi/frameit...net/page3.html

And I could provide lots more, but that really isn't the point of this thread.

For those that get an error when using these links, here are the actual pages that those links were supposed to link to:

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/3/T032400.asp

http://www.dgc.co.nz/page.cfm?id=26

http://www.babyinfo.net/page3.html

The Dr. Sears link may take you to a sign up page for his newsletter, but you can just say "skip this" if you want.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

They're redirected through colichelp. Copy the link, knock off the beginning part where it tries to send you through colichelp and then refer you to the other links, and you can see them.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jörð* 
I'm sorry to say, I don't believe for a second that any child should have goats milk rather than human. And healthy- except that whole failure to thrive thing doesn't do much for that argument.

Huh???

When did I EVER say that goats milk was better than human??!!! Or that babies should have that instead?

I think you are mis-interpreting me.

And my son got FTT while I was Exclusively Bfing, not while he was on the Goats Milk. That is why we switched!!! He always did fine on Goats Milk.

And yes, he is VERY healthy. Although I am sure that BFing exclusively for the first 5 months of his life had a lot to do with that. I often wonder if things would be different if I never would have been able to BF.

Trying to figure out the links...


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Trying to figure out the links...

I've fixed them in post # 246. You could just edit your original post to match.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Here are the direct links to websites that explain the benefits of goats milk vs cow or soy milk formulas.

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/3/T032400.asp

http://www.dgc.co.nz/page.cfm?id=26

www.babyinfo.net/page3.html


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Thanks Techno Granola...I think we cross posted.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
Thanks Techno Granola...I think we cross posted.

Your welcome! My family is sleeping right now, so I had extra time to fiddle!


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## natural_mama89 (May 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
Well, not everyone has a phone.

Not everyone has a car.

Not everyone feels comfortable talking to a group of strangers (or even one stranger) about her breasts.









I know that this person didn't say this, but how can we have people talking about the same thing with one person saying that not everyone has a phone, while other people are implying that everyone hes a dishwasher.







: this whole thread is really confusing. People need to realize that babies are different and that plays a huge part in how easy breastfeeding and formula feeding are. Like people are using the argument that their baby didn't mind unwarmed milk, so they didn't have to do that, or they have a dishwasher so they didn't have to sterilize bottles, or they don't cosleep so they would have to get up to feed anyway. It would obviously be a lot different for people with babies that will only drink a warm bottle (that was my son), didn't have a dishwasher, or did cosleep. What is easy for one person my be difficult for another.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

Dubfam-

I feel that your posts on this thread reflect a lot of things about how you view breastfeeding. I don't doubt that you think breastfeeding is a good idea for some. Most of us at MDC think it's best for all, whenever humanly possible. You're asking people to "admit" something that most of us feel is untrue. Why you need people to admit something like this tells me that you are seeking validation for your choices. While I can certainly sympathize, I can't give you what you're asking for so I am going to bow out of this thread now.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Just for the record ....in case anyone is confused...

I think breastfeeding is the Best and Most Normal thing for every single baby. Every single baby.

I DO NOT think that Formula Feeding is a good choice if you are able to successfully Breastfeed.

I believe that Formula is Terribly Overused in the United States, and it is causing many problems for our society.

Thanks...


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

As you have ascertained dubfam, it probably was something YOU were eating that the goat wasn't that was causing your son pain.

I have a son who was VERY sensitive to dairy protiens when he was a baby. Arched back, projectile vomiting, constipation followed by blow out diapers, and at least 6 hours of crying a day with at least 3 of them being consequetive.

He was very small and weighted less than 18 lbs at 1 year, although he did double his birthweight, but just barely.

If I had switched to soy or goat formula instead of finding his allergy I am sure I too would say he digested it better. That it was "easier", that while breast is "best", it wasn't "best" for my baby or family.

I would have still been wrong.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jörð* 
Dubfam-

I feel that your posts on this thread reflect a lot of things about how you view breastfeeding. I don't doubt that you think breastfeeding is a good idea for some. Most of us at MDC think it's best for all, whenever humanly possible. You're asking people to "admit" something that most of us feel is untrue. Why you need people to admit something like this tells me that you are seeking validation for your choices. While I can certainly sympathize, I can't give you what you're asking for so I am going to bow out of this thread now.









Wow, talk about totally missing the point.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Therese's Mommy* 
... But, when women say they have no support or no info about bfing, how can this really be in this day and age? We are pg for 9 mos. Don't all women take this time to read about pregnancy, birth, and taking care of baby? Is it possible in this day and age for a woman to not hear of LLL? ...

Yum, yeah, we have no LLL leader here and I had not heard of it, nor did I know it was a meeting sort of organization. And when I had my first interent was not around as plentiful as it is today. I was home alone in a new town w a baby who was not nursing. I knew no one, family was in another country. I had no car, no public transportation, no help all day, at night me dh was distant and frustrated with my PPD. There was a lot I didn't know. I didn't know I could go back to the hospital for assistance until years later, however after the c/s I was in bed and really unable to do anything for myself or my baby for 2 to 3 weeks, then the PPD set in and I was in a very dark place for a very long time, I existed. My dh found me in the kitchen w a knife one afternoon as he came in the door from work, he freaked out, I don't remember it much.
My mum helped as best she could, but she said she never had enough bm and supplemented. She went out and bought bottles and formula. I had 1 that I used for my cat!!! I was planning on bfing.
I started my pregnancy out in a military hospital. There really is no guidance. I bought birthing books "gentle birth choices" "natural child birth the bradley method" of course I ended up w a c/s. I had a bfing book, but it didn't address our problem. I tried everything I could read and understand, naked nursing, repeat latching, pumping (only I purchased a single not knowing I needed double for supply problems), the list goes on. IT was a very difficult time for me.
Maybe I'm the exception, but I gather there are others who found themselves in my place.
With my 2nd child, I saw an LC in private practice before the c/s. I drove 45 miles to LLL meetings. I still had no local friends. I found MDC after the 2nd was well over 6 mo old. We did nurse until he self weaned at 14 mo old, I was unknowingly pregnant w #3. And wouldn't you know it MDC made me a hber!!! We still do not have LLL here, 1 town over there are meetings. But frankly after you've been to 4 that's it other than to socialize.


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## Clarinet (Nov 3, 2005)

I think the OP has really gone about the whole thing wrong (sorry, OP!) because it's coming off as formula support but if I'm correct in what I've been reading, she's trying to say that her issue is with the whole "breastfeeding is easy, natural (interpretation - every woman and baby gets it right away)" when in reality it may not be for every woman and baby. Things can be really difficult for some women and that's why a good percentage of women are convinced they had a problem, because it wasn't easy. She said it kind of funny and I thought she was suggesting we should accept "it wasn't easy" as a valid formula feeding excuse but now that I read her posts again, I'm sure that's not what she was implying. She's making a correlation between overusing formula and lack of breastfeeding support by not being told of the difficulties. Women are told breastfeeding is easy/easier and formula feeding is more time consuming/harder and in the beginning, that's quite often not true.

OP, I'll try to dig it up but there is a poll in lactivism asking whether or not the women who answered had difficulty breastfeeding. I think you do have good points that are getting lost in the turn of conversation. It's important for women to know possible issues and give them the information they need to overcome those issues, ideas that DON'T include formula.

ETA: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...highlight=easy

Here's the poll. 626 votes and 49% said yes, it was easy.


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FancyD* 
I think the OP raises a good topic. How can yo be a better lactivist, essentially. She believes that by being truthful about the possible difficulties wrt BF, you can convince more moms to stick it out.

Dissmissing the very real problems new mothers face, *in this culture*, is negligent advocacy. Most of us haven't grown up watching female relatives nurse or live in a BF friendly environment. Some women don't have helpful partners (who probably won't be that helpfull w/ bottles, either) to support them in the learning curve. The least you can do is be honest that BFing can take some effort and sometimes pain, but it's worth it.









: I tend to stay out of these dicussions these days because truthfully I feel let down by the lactivist community.

I ff'd my eldest who is almost 16, just didn't know any better. So when I got pregnant with dd who is 26 mos, I did my research and figured I'd try nursing, well to some degree I guess you would say I am a success story since dd is still nursing at 26 mos. There was an initial issue with her latch but my LC helped so why do I feel letdown.

I feel like most lactivist only talk about the good stuff, when someone has an issue I feel like no one is honest. For me the lack of sleep over the past 26 months has been an issue. The reason I don't sleep is because dd nurses tons at night and co-sleeping has never really helped, I am not one who can sleep through the babe being latched on. It was so bad that earlier this year dh tried taking over nights (we were hoping to nightwean but it didn't happen) and what has resulted is that dd sleeps with him now but brings her to me to nurse which on a bad night can be every 2 hours even at 2yo or a really good night is 1-2x. So I get a little more sleep but having years of fractured sleep is messing with my overall health.

I will be honest and say there are times I wish we had never BF because at least dh could have been an equal nighttime parent. With my eldest, because he was FF'd nighttime parenting duties could be shared.

Right now I have a child well past the age I thought I would have BF and no idea when its going to end yet I know at places like MDC and with many lactivist I won't be heard.

I suppose the bright side is that aside from the sleep deprivation I do enjoy nursing and its been a great experience. So I guess for me I see both sides.

Shay


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

The thing that I find really strange about this conversation is that it is so contrary to my experience. In my world, most women are told over and over again that breastfeeding is hard, many women can't make enough milk, if you hit a road block switch to formula--it's easier. Most of the women in my LLL group say that the #1 surprise with breastfeeding was that it was easy and they'd heard so many horror stories.


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

dubfam said:


> Here are the direct links to websites that explain the benefits of goats milk vs cow or soy milk formulas.
> 
> 
> > I was pretty eager to click these, as someone who FF their first and will likely FF my second, at least partially due to adoption. However, they left me far from convinced.
> ...


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Momily* 

"In theory, goat's milk is less allergenic and more easily digestible than cow's milk, but it should not be used as a substitute for infant formula. Like cow's milk, it can cause intestinal irritation and anemia. If your baby under one year of age is allergic to cow's milk-based formulas, try either a soy-based formula or a hypoallergenic formula. If your baby can't tolerate either soy or hypoallergenic formulas, in consultation with your doctor and/or a pediatric nutritionist click here for the recipe for goat's milk formula. "


The part of the text that you are quoting fell under the section that was dealing with babes who are allergic to Cows milk. As I understand it he is saying in those circumstances that it isn't okay or a good idea to use goats milk formula. He says in other parts that it is good, and there is a link to a goats milk formula recipe that I don't think would be there if he didn't think this was a suitable formula.
It is confusing the way it was worded.


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

The way I'm reading it is:

If you child can't be breastfed

AND he/she's allergic to milk

AND you've tried soy and hypoallergenic formula and they didn't work.

THEN try homemade goat's milk formula -- here's the recipe.


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## littlemizflava (Oct 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jörð* 
It would be so helpful if you would use some punctuation. I had a really hard time trying to decipher your post but I wouldn't want to discount what you have to say because it's hard to read.









sorry i was in a rush when i posted it but i wanted to say what i had to say............................................... ....


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Dubfam, you keep changing your terms. Are you claiming goats milk is good for babies, or goat's milk FORMULA is good for babies?

Quote:

If Goats Milk is bad for babies then why are there formulas made with Goats Milk?
For exactly the same reason there are formulas made from cow's milk, because cow's milk is bad for babies.

The Dr sears link you provided has two sections, the first on goats milk for adults and children, the second for BABIES. The PP quoted the entire section on goat's milk for babies under one year. he very very clearly states that straight goats milk is very bad for babies, and if you can't give them human milk, you need to give a formula, be it goat or cow's milk based, it needs to be a FORMULA, ie, modified to be less drastically different from human milk.

Quote:

I was Using Fresh Goats milk that was supplemented with flax seed oil and vitamins.
So, you weren't increasing the calorie load, or decreasing the protein at all. That is NOT GOOD FOR HUMAN BABIES.

You'd need to dilute the goat's milk, then add back calories as some sort of sugar or fat, and add in vitamins too. Not that different from a commercial formula. Both VERY different from breastmilk.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

I know the conversations has evolved from the first post, but I just wanted to respond to that. My formula feeding experience is confined mainly to my nieces and nephews, so I don't really know how it would be to formula feed with my own child. I started at around age 12 bottlefeeding nieces at various times, and pretty much continued off and on until I my last nephew was born when I was 28. I always found it to be a pita, and it's one of the reasons I wanted to breastfeed. I often would prop the bottle, especially if I was tired or had to take care of their older siblings. I couldn't wait until they could hold the bottle on their own.

The fact that other people could feed a bottle to the baby meant it was often a job getting pawned off on someone else, often me, so maybe that is part of my problem with it. When my friend's came to visit, they thought it was fun, but I hated it. And I didn't even have to pay for the formula (although I did taste it a few times when I was testing the temperature and thought it would be easier to lick it off my wrist--shudder). I was told to feed my first daughter formula in the hospital, and that was a pain too. Now I will admit I felt like breastfeeding was difficult, sometimes wishing I had 3 arms, and trying every single chair and cushion in the house to find the one that gave me best positioning. But when I tried to give her the formula, she was constantly trying to push the bottle nipple out, and a lot of the formula ran out down her face and into her neck. Later on when I tried to feed her ebm in a bottle, she wouldn't take it, would push it out, turn her head, whatever, and bottlefeeding just didn't work at all.

I remember the formula dripping down thing happening all the time with my various nieces, and always having to have a burp cloth, the careful burping I had to do, the kids spitting up a fair amount of the time when I did it. I know a lot of breastfed babies will spit up a lot, but neither of mine did, and I never really worried that much about burping either. I don't know if that's a breast v. bottle issue, however.

Breastfeeding definitely became easier over time. Of course, so did bottlefeeding because eventually they could hold their own bottles, and we didn't have to buy formula for that long--they were usually switched to cow's milk by around 10 months or so.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

IME, babies who are old enough to hold their own bottle are also old enough to hold their own boob to latch on, so it gets easier for everyone around the same time.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
IME, babies who are old enough to hold their own bottle are also old enough to hold their own boob to latch on, so it gets easier for everyone around the same time.









Oh funny you say that--it's true and I always think of it when the holding the bottle argument ensues. I see it as a kind of developmental thing that maybe children like to do, and I know both my daughters would hold the breast.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natural_mama89* 
I know that this person didn't say this, but how can we have people talking about the same thing with one person saying that not everyone has a phone, while other people are implying that everyone hes a dishwasher.







:

If you're referring to me and the dishwasher, just wanted to say that in no way shape or form was I implying that everyone has a dishwasher. I didn't even SEE a dishwasher until I was about ten, and we only got one at home about a year ago. I was pointing out, the same thing you were pointing out, that all our experiences are different and they're hard to compare.







Blanket arguments about what's easy and hard with each method of feeding simply do not work for all cases. In my case, there is no need to heat bottles and sterilize etc. But for other people these ARE valid arguments. In my own little way, I was saying the same thing you were.







:


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Maybe it needs to be reiterated --
The "easy" factor depends on the circumstances surrounding the family dynamic.

So, the answer to the question is FF easier or BF easier -- Depends, each comes with its own set of challenges and each of us have our own opinions as to what is "easy".

I do not believe anyone here is intentionally "promoting formula feeding". We each have our own experiences. I've personally done both and have many experiences given 4 children, only 1 was "easy" in my book, I only had mastitis once, I only had blisters once, I only had sore nips a handful of times. I didn't think FF my 1st was "hard", I didn't have a dishwasher, I didn't have a microwave, I didn't have LLL, I didn't have internet, I didn't have a car, simply we didn't have a lot of things... I have no idea how we paid for formula and diapers babck then! We didn't really have the money for formula and diapers with #2 and #3.

Even traveling with my bf babies, I brought along my breast pump and at least 1 bottle and nipple. I always want to be prepared for the traffic jam, a nursing strike, or the who knows. Yes, I'm the mom pumping while driving, well it was just stopped for hours (used a Whisper Wear) and having my oldest child feed the baby a bottle because there was no where to pull over.

Bottom line -- It all depends on the mom, the baby, the family dynamic. What is easy to me is not necessarily easy to someone else and what is difficult to me is not necessarily difficult for another mom.

And neither one is cheaper than the other, when problems do exist. As in my own personal case w #4. Bfing is way more expensive than formula alone would be, even giving the $35 per can powder formula. First the FTT hospital stay, tests, more tests, driving to specialist 2 hours away, then the Rental pump first, then purchased pump, then extra valves and bottles, then Domperidone, then the SNS, then supplements for me and baby, then there is the GFDF food I eat to keep those proteins out of my baby, and I still have to buy the formula, nipples, bottles, a bottle brush, and lastly my time. My time is spent pumping, fighting SNS, having baby not want the bottle, and my other 3 children getting neglected, my dh being neglected and the house, plus, plus, plus... I think it woud be WAY easier to give just formula. Would it be better? Maybe. But here I am not wanting to let go of pumping for my baby... Yet, formula definitely makes him more content and I'm already GFDF and corn free... Geez, there is a limit for some moms. I've met mine and have not accepted it yet.

I also what to just add that today's market of formula is not without it's merits. If a woman is formula feeding, at least give her credit for not giving cows milk straight up! Yes, it happens. I know of a least 2 moms who have given their babies inferior "formula". 1 gave all her babies Carnation Concentrate w Karo Syrup as formula and all of this woman's adult children are obese and in poor health. The other gave her baby cows milk (pasteurized) b/c her baby bit her to bleeding and said that was it. I'm not in contact w that mom any more to know how the baby is today at almost 9 yrs old.

BFing can be easier than FFing when all goes well. My dd was my easiest, if only they all had been so easy! But I've learned a very valuable lesson in all of this with my 4th. I've mellowed out in my views of BF vs FF. I'm more tolerant I suppose.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
Dubfam, you keep changing your terms. Are you claiming goats milk is good for babies, or goat's milk FORMULA is good for babies?

*So, you weren't increasing the calorie load, or decreasing the protein at all. That is NOT GOOD FOR HUMAN BABIES.

You'd need to dilute the goat's milk, then add back calories as some sort of sugar or fat, and add in vitamins too.* Not that different from a commercial formula. Both VERY different from breastmilk.

*When I have said Goats Milk I am implying Goats Milk that has been made into formula..whether done at home or purchased commercially. So I am sorry if that had you confused.

I didn't know that I needed to explain my exact formula recipe to you, but since you attacked me about it I guess I will...

I did add vitamins, flax seed oil, brown rice syrup and it was diluted with water.

So There! And the recipe was given to us by our naturopath who strongly believes (as do I ) that using fresh ingredients is far healthier than reconstituted milk from a powder.

really, I don;t know why this keeps coming back to what I fed my son. I have not once tried to imply that the Goats Milk Formula is as good as breast milk, so I am not sure what you are arguing about.*


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

And thanks to everyone who is participating in this conversation politely.

I think this is an important thing to discuss.

I really agree with what PP's are saying about the ease depending on circumstances for each individual.

What is really hard for one person might be really easy for the next.

And I wanted to echo what other PP's have said...I was VERY judgmental of women who FF'd before I had to switch to formula.
I would seriously think negative things about a woman just because I saw her giving her child a bottle. I just assumed it was formula...and I think that somewhere in my head I had decided that I was a better mom because I would NEVER use formula...no matter what!!

I decided all of that before Owen was even born. And then the more I fought for our breastfeeding relationship the more judgmental I got of women for FFing. I think part of it was that I was always telling myself how TERRIBLE formula is to help me stay motivated to keep breastfeeding no matter how hard it got.

When Owen had FTT at 5 months old I finally conceded and started supplementing with Goats Milk (formula) and then quit breastfeeding all together (which was in part to REALLY bad advice/information).

But I was so overwhelmed by that point. I didn't hate breastfeeding, but it was really unpleasant for the most part. But that was because we were having so many problems, and I had a big baby who would nurse for an hour at a time, giving me breaks of maybe 2 hours in between if I was lucky. He gained weight like crazy for the first few months, so I know he was getting milk. At some point he wasn't getting enough anymore, and when I took him to the doc he was down to his 4 week old weight. I had already been doing everything I knew how to boost my supply, remove allergens ( I was eating very few foods at this point) and everything else. The Naturopath gave me some more suggestions and had me come back in a week. When we came back Owen had lost even more weight







: and he got diagnosed with FTT.
That was the most heartbreaking thing that has ever happened to me as a Mother. My Baby was Literally STARVING
I did not know what else to do at that point besides switch to formula. I didn't want my baby to suffer anymore while I tried to fix the problems with breastfeeding. And I was so exhausted just looking at the SNS made me want to cry...so I got the Goats Milk Formula recipe from my doc, and started Owen on it.
He did fantastic, never had problems digesting it (which was my biggest fear!!) and really thrived on it. That is why I believe in the fresh Goats Milk (formula) so much, because it was so great for my son. and as a mom who HATED the idea of formula, this was much more palatable to me. It seemed more natural to me then something from a can.

I have always been VERY grateful to have gotten the recipe. If the doc wouldn't have told me about it I wouldn't have known it was an option. And I would have been stuck using similac or something which would have been even more devastating for me.

So I try to share what I have learned with other women who are finding themselves in similar situations and aren't comfortable with formula from a can. That is my whole motivation for even mentioning Goats Milk (formula) as much as I do...I want other people to know that they have some choices that they may not have been aware of. It certainly isn't to try and get someone to stop BFing and give Formula instead!!!

.


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## hollytheteacher (Mar 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goodearthmama* 
I don't see how preparing anything and then washing it afterwards, etc. is easier than Simply putting a hungry baby to your breast instantly satifying him. I mean really, i can't see how that could even be considered not the simplest thing ever!

Also, I think I can stand the "sacrifice" of the extra 30 minutes it takes to feed and nourish my child with my milk that is made for him and sustains him and give him the BEST possible start in life.

In regards to night time, my LO is right beside me in bed and as soon as he stirs= Boom! Breast in mouth and we are both back to sleep in a few minutes. No Big Deal!

I don't need anything when I go anywhere besides a few dipes. Wow, I really just can't believe that anyone would think that ff could possibly be easier.
I mean, unless you have medical problems that prevent bf, I think maybe saying it is easier might justify for making excuses. Sorry, but that is my opinion.









:


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

I am sure this thread has been very hard on you. You said your son gained in the beginning. Is it possible that a hormonal imbalance caused your milk production to decrease? I know you aren't looking for advice, so take this for what it's worth and I'll give you my reasoning here.

Could your milk issues have been hormonal. If your milk supply dropped because of a hormonal imbalance it's possible your son wasn't getting enough milk and that's why he was losing weight and crying all the time because he was hungry. Not because your milk was bad for him.

You don't have to respond. It's not my business to know your or your son's medical history. I'm just putting it out there. I know many of the birth control given after birth isn't "supposed to" negatively effect milk supply but many of them do.

I know a LC who has had women call her in tears because at their 8 week PPvisit they got a depo shot and now their milk supply tanked. There's no going back from that because it's internal as opposed to they mini pill.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
And thanks to everyone who is participating in this conversation politely.

I think this is an important thing to discuss.

I really agree with what PP's are saying about the ease depending on circumstances for each individual.

What is really hard for one person might be really easy for the next.

And I wanted to echo what other PP's have said...I was VERY judgmental of women who FF'd before I had to switch to formula.
I would seriously think negative things about a woman just because I saw her giving her child a bottle. I just assumed it was formula...and I think that somewhere in my head I had decided that I was a better mom because I would NEVER use formula...no matter what!!

I decided all of that before Owen was even born. And then the more I fought for our breastfeeding relationship the more judgmental I got of women for FFing. I think part of it was that I was always telling myself how TERRIBLE formula is to help me stay motivated to keep breastfeeding no matter how hard it got.

When Owen had FTT at 5 months old I finally conceded and started supplementing with Goats Milk (formula) and then quit breastfeeding all together (which was in part to REALLY bad advice/information).

But I was so overwhelmed by that point. I didn't hate breastfeeding, but it was really unpleasant for the most part. But that was because we were having so many problems, and I had a big baby who would nurse for an hour at a time, giving me breaks of maybe 2 hours in between if I was lucky. He gained weight like crazy for the first few months, so I know he was getting milk. At some point he wasn't getting enough anymore, and when I took him to the doc he was down to his 4 week old weight. I had already been doing everything I knew how to boost my supply, remove allergens ( I was eating very few foods at this point) and everything else. The Naturopath gave me some more suggestions and had me come back in a week. When we came back Owen had lost even more weight







: and he got diagnosed with FTT.
That was the most heartbreaking thing that has ever happened to me as a Mother. My Baby was Literally STARVING
I did not know what else to do at that point besides switch to formula. I didn't want my baby to suffer anymore while I tried to fix the problems with breastfeeding. And I was so exhausted just looking at the SNS made me want to cry...so I got the Goats Milk Formula recipe from my doc, and started Owen on it.
He did fantastic, never had problems digesting it (which was my biggest fear!!) and really thrived on it. That is why I believe in the fresh Goats Milk (formula) so much, because it was so great for my son. and as a mom who HATED the idea of formula, this was much more palatable to me. It seemed more natural to me then something from a can.

I have always been VERY grateful to have gotten the recipe. If the doc wouldn't have told me about it I wouldn't have known it was an option. And I would have been stuck using similac or something which would have been even more devastating for me.

So I try to share what I have learned with other women who are finding themselves in similar situations and aren't comfortable with formula from a can. That is my whole motivation for even mentioning Goats Milk (formula) as much as I do...I want other people to know that they have some choices that they may not have been aware of. It certainly isn't to try and get someone to stop BFing and give Formula instead!!!

.


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## haleyelianasmom (Nov 5, 2005)

This is not an insult to the OP, but all the reasons you stated for formula feeding being easier involve other people helping mostly, am I right? At night, your husband can do the feeding or baby can do his own feedings or family members can help. Lets assume you WANT to do all the feedings and you're a SAHM (or on maternity leave, or only working from home, or only working very minimal hours). Then wouldn't breastfeeding be easier?

You also brought up the time. Well there are 2 responses to this. 1) As babies get older, it often takes less time for them to get all the milk, so your child may have reduced their feeding time anyways without the switch to formula. 2) For bonding purposes, I think the extra cuddling time and skin-to-skin contact would be important whether you are formula feeding or breastfeeding. So if you're going to cuddle up with your baby for a half hour, what does it matter if he's spending 5 minutes eating from a bottle and 25 snuggling or all 30 nursing.

So all things equal, you are doing all the feedings and holding your baby the same amount of time, breastfeeding is WAY easier. No clean-up, no heating, no preparation, no planning ahead (how many bottles will we need for a 6 hour trip out?), no running out, no having to run out to the store to buy more, no worrying about water sources, no mixing.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Dubfam - I am in a similar spot. The only difference is I had a doc suggest pumping and fortifying bm which is what we've been doing until my supply just would not recover after the 2nd dip.

Every day is a challenge, 2 days ago I was ready to give up the pump and just nurse what I could, supplement as needed w the medical grade formula and let it go. Then the next day I decided I would pump. I pumped while my dh had the other 3 children for the weekend and it was easy -- yesterday with all the kids in my care, I sat to pump and discovered when I was done the bandaids all over the house, etc. I simply can not do it all, something has to give -- should I give up my other 3 children to pump for 1??? No, that is rediculous. As hard as the truth of my life is, the pump has to go.

And last night he prefered the really gross tasting formula to my fortified bm!!!







I have no idea why. Except to say if I eat even the miniscule amout of anything he can't tolerate even on accident or cross contamination, he is not a happy baby. And baby's are smart enough to put 2 and 2 together and think, mom's milk hurts, this other stuff doesn't.

At 8 mo old, I look back and this entire nursing relationship has been a challenge from the start, day 1. I took it day by day, feed by feed, week by week and that turned into months. I'm not sure what I'll do tomorrow. I'm not sure if I will pump today. I'm not sure about a lot of things. I am however sure that my ds is more content on formula and the soft spot does not cave in when he has formula and he pees a lot more -- I'm not a stupid woman, I know this means my bm isn't cutting it. But I haven't let go completely yet.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
*When I have said Goats Milk I am implying Goats Milk that has been made into formula..whether done at home or purchased commercially. So I am sorry if that had you confused.
*
*
*
*
Then please please please go back and edit the word formula in, even if it makes our replies to you nonsensical. This thread is going tot sit in cyberspace forever, and some uniformed and impressionable people might come along and start feeding their child unmodified goats milk because of it.

Quote:

I did add vitamins, flax seed oil, brown rice syrup and it was diluted with water.
Phew, so you WERE feeding him a formula. I don't know why you didn't just say that at the beginning instead of trying to defend straight goats milk.

Quote:

I have not once tried to imply that the Goats Milk Formula is as good as breast milk, so I am not sure what you are arguing about.
No, you've been consistently saying the straight unmodified goats milk is BETTER than a formula (modifed to alter fat, carb, protein and vitamin content). And that is truly dangerous, which is why we've been correcting you.*


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
IME, babies who are old enough to hold their own bottle are also old enough to hold their own boob to latch on, so it gets easier for everyone around the same time.



















And that holding their own bottle is when the bonding argument for breastfeeding comes in. It would be so easy to go about your day and just hand the kid a bottle every now and then rather than sit, and really connect with them. And BFing forces you to do that. You have to stop, and sit with your child for that five minutes no matter how busy you are.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

I never understood the OP as ever having said straight Goat's Milk. I even PM'd her for the recipe. The first time I read the thread I understood it as a "formula" not straight.

A lot of this might have been avoided I suppose if comprehension skills were better.

I really think there needs to be a forum just for food intolerance and sensitivities in INFANTS, specific to moms going through this challenge. BF Challenges is trying to cover way more than just poor latch, low supply, or other challenge related to non-diet problems. I have a feeling there are probably a lot of moms on this board who have gone through BFing a very food sensitive child as well as moms who have tried Eliminations diets failed and resorted to FFing. I think moms need a safe place to be free from ridicule when they are going through this type of challenge. It is a daily struggle to 1) eat well yourself given the limitations and 2) bring the health back up in a baby who was FTT from food intolernaces.

I understand the OPs situation, which seems to be past tense with an older child now, I'm in it w an infant FTT from food intolerance in my milk, I caused this to happen to him. Until you've been in this place, you really should not comment in a negative tone. It's very hard to eat DFGFCF etc and one little slip has the baby going backwards by a week. Watching your baby loose weight is scary, down right terrifying. My baby not only lost weight, but stopped growing, including his brain matter, as in his head was a 3 1/2 mo old size at 6 mo old!!!


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I had problems nursing my first, but they were solved before 2 weeks of age. I had no problems with my second.

I think breastfeeding is way easier. There isn't even a two minute wait to heat anything up. There is no prep. There is no carrying anything around. There is no trying to figure out how much formula to bring. There is no having to go buy formula. There is no worry about running out. There is no worry about what to do in the event of a natural disaster.

I'm very surprised to hear that some women don't hear that breastfeeding can be very hard in the beginning. I heard it soooo much. I was prepared for hell. Even though I had feeding problems with my first, I still don't think it was hard.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Therese's Mommy* 
Ok, I am not trying to be snarky or anything like that. But, when women say they have no support or no info about bfing, how can this really be in this day and age? We are pg for 9 mos. Don't all women take this time to read about pregnancy, birth, and taking care of baby? Is it possible in this day and age for a woman to not hear of LLL? I am really just throwing this out there. But there was a comment earlier from someone who said LC said one thing doc said another and then when she went home she had no support. Are there actually places that have no LLL leaders? I know at least 7 in my area and we are not a very progressive area (no birth centers, no midwives, no real birth choices, lots of ffing moms). And even if there aren't any leaders in an area, isn't there a 1-800 number to call? Again, not trying to be snarky, I am really curious. I mean most people get the nursery ready, get the crib set up, get the diapers, so don't most women give a thought to how they are going to feed the baby before baby arrives? I started going to LLL before DD#1 was even born. I understand that some women work and can't get to a meeting, but wouldn't you at least get the numbers of the leaders and maybe make contact beforehand?

Beth

This is really funny for me in a lot of ways, because I don't think all of it really jives.

I did have people in my life that were supportive, to a point, but a whole lot more people who were unsupportive.

I was determined to BF. I bought books and attended a class. The books made it seem pretty easy, with only a slight mentioning of plugged ducts and mastitis. The class I took, basically focused on positioning and how to nurse. It was useful, I suppose, for those that didn't have any problems. At the end of the class, I asked about plugged ducts and mastitis. I didn't know much about these things, but had heard some from my good friend who ended up weaning at 10mos due to 4-5 bouts of mastitis. So I wanted to know more because I didn't want to "just wean" if it happened! The instructor just said "well it happens to some people. . just ask your doc for antibiotics and you'll get better". No more than a few sentences total.. she ended with "most people don't have these problems so it's not something you have to worry about". Well yeah! Then I wondered if my friend was just really unusual, or something.

So as it turns out that by the time my DD weaned last month at 28 mos old, I only ever had 1 plugged duct and never had mastitis. Lucky me, right? Not so. Nobody ever mentioned the very real fact that some babies can't latch! Mine, bless us all, was one of them. All the research I had done had basically said that if a baby won't latch, it was because baby had a bottle too early or some other reason that was mom's fault. I didn't see _anywhere_ where the actual mechanics of a baby's tongue/mouth (outside of cleft lip/palate) can have a very real impact on nursing. So my DD was a day old and wouldn't latch. Then she was 3 days old and never latched. And I spent countless hours every single day, I saw _eight_ LCs. Nobody could give me more than a few minutes of their time and when they did, it was the same thing I heard from everyone else. On the surface, they seemed supportive but the more I look back, the more it seems they weren't _really_ interested in our success.

So then the hospital won't discharge DD because she lost an inordinate amount of weight in her 4 short days out of the womb. The doctors and nurses were throwing around big words and scaring me, telling me that I _had_ to feed her something. I got someone to bring me a pump and I spent my days alternating pumping and attempting to latch. Finally, DD stopped losing weight and got discharged. But they were so concerned about her that we had a nurse come check on her every few days to make sure she kept growing. And on our last day in the hospital I asked about renting a pump, they told me they don't have anymore. The one I had was for hospital use only. So they sent me home empty-handed, except for a bunch of syringes to use "to feed my pumped milk".

Thankfully my parents were visiting and wanted to see us succeed. They ran out to BRU an hour before closing and bought a PIS so I wouldn't have to feed formula. Thankfully they had the $300 to spend on one. It would have been nice to buy one cheaper online, but there was no time. The next day my mom called a bunch of private LCs for their help and sought a couple of small shops to see about a Lactina rental (since I was EPing at this point). Nobody returned their calls. The shop was supposed to be open on Saturday and when my parents got there, it was closed.

For the next few weeks I EPed around the clock, spent hours trying to latch, then finally gave up and syringe fed. My parents went back home (they were here only a week) and my husband had to go back to work. And here I was, stuck all alone in a big empty house all day long, so occupied with the pumping/latching/feeding cycle that I didn't have any time to eat, let alone hop on my computer and seek more information. Really, it was that bad. I poured over my books and called yet more LCs. Finally finally finally I got DD to latch using a nipple shield. And that was the first step to a normal nursing relationship.

I didn't call LLL for a variety of reasons. Firstly, I thought that the meetings were it. And I was still very sore from my C-section that I couldn't make it to a meeting. Secondly, I have some friends and family who used to be associated with LLL and have since lost contact because they feel the group is too political and militant. And since all I had read up until this point was that it was mom's fault that baby couldn't latch, I felt too vulnerable to open myself up to that type of criticism. I had really wanted to attend meetings beforehand, but they all happen during the day while I'm at work.

A few months later after I had returned to work, my supply took a huge hit and I was having a lot of trouble pumping enough. I called an LC one night. . just found her in the phone book, and left a message about really needing to see her. I was in tears. I never heard from her. Thankfully at this point I was feeling better and could surf the internet at work, so I tried all sorts of things. I ended up on domperidone and continued to take it for the next year. I really wanted to try LLL but again, I'm at work.

It wasn't so much that I was uneducated, or didn't have access to the internet or books. I had plenty of resources. . more than most probably. But resources are different from support. What I needed was for someone to sit down with me and help, sister to sister. I didn't need the cold black text of web pages or books. And I really didn't need the scare tactics used by home health nurse, who I finally told to never come back before my baby was growing fine.

I'm an educated, middle-class Caucasian woman who lives in the middle of a mid-sized city. I own a house, a car, a dishwasher, and many other things that a lot of people do not have (and yes, I feel very fortunate). I could afford the pump, all the feeding supplies I required, and the domperidone. And I could have afforded formula, too. Both my parents and ILs BF and were very supportive. But despite all of this, I _still_ did not feel I had enough support. I felt I had plenty of "stuff" but no one to show me how to use it. I felt alone, scared, and trapped, and nobody really cared enough to return our phone calls or put effort forth to help. I know there are a lot of good LCs out there, but based on my experience I feel the "find an LC!" mantra to be more lipservice than anything.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
It would be so easy to go about your day and just hand the kid a bottle every now and then rather than sit, and really connect with them. And BFing forces you to do that. You have to stop, and sit with your child for that five minutes no matter how busy you are.

HA! My kid didn't give up the bottle until 2.5, and he pretty much never took a bottle unless someone was holding him.The real advantage was that my hands were free while he drank the bottle (which usually took 20+ minutes, too).


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

I think it is truly unfair to say mothers who bottle feed do not connect with their children. NOT every one who holds a bottle to their babies is doing it because they WANT too. And NOT everyone who holds that bottle is holding formula, it might just be bm in there. And formula is not evil even if it is in that bottle, bottles are not evil.

I think we need to stop the generalizations and stop the judgements. NOT every woman has it EASY. And for those of us who have been through the ringer not only with birth, but followed by bfing problems and then to read we are inferior is very damning.

I've had 2 c/s, 2 hbs w tearing. I've bf all 4 and only 1 was with minor difficulties and 1 ended up on 100% ff at 3 mo old, not by choice. I do not believe I am the minority anymore.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crazydiamond* 
This is really funny for me in a lot of ways, because I don't think all of it really jives.

I did have people in my life that were supportive, to a point, but a whole lot more people who were unsupportive.

I was determined to BF. I bought books and attended a class. The books made it seem pretty easy, with only a slight mentioning of plugged ducts and mastitis. The class I took, basically focused on positioning and how to nurse. It was useful, I suppose, for those that didn't have any problems. At the end of the class, I asked about plugged ducts and mastitis. I didn't know much about these things, but had heard some from my good friend who ended up weaning at 10mos due to 4-5 bouts of mastitis. So I wanted to know more because I didn't want to "just wean" if it happened! The instructor just said "well it happens to some people. . just ask your doc for antibiotics and you'll get better". No more than a few sentences total.. she ended with "most people don't have these problems so it's not something you have to worry about". Well yeah! Then I wondered if my friend was just really unusual, or something.

So as it turns out that by the time my DD weaned last month at 28 mos old, I only ever had 1 plugged duct and never had mastitis. Lucky me, right? Not so. Nobody ever mentioned the very real fact that some babies can't latch! Mine, bless us all, was one of them. All the research I had done had basically said that if a baby won't latch, it was because baby had a bottle too early or some other reason that was mom's fault. I didn't see _anywhere_ where the actual mechanics of a baby's tongue/mouth (outside of cleft lip/palate) can have a very real impact on nursing. So my DD was a day old and wouldn't latch. Then she was 3 days old and never latched. And I spent countless hours every single day, I saw _eight_ LCs. Nobody could give me more than a few minutes of their time and when they did, it was the same thing I heard from everyone else. On the surface, they seemed supportive but the more I look back, the more it seems they weren't _really_ interested in our success.

So then the hospital won't discharge DD because she lost an inordinate amount of weight in her 4 short days out of the womb. The doctors and nurses were throwing around big words and scaring me, telling me that I _had_ to feed her something. I got someone to bring me a pump and I spent my days alternating pumping and attempting to latch. Finally, DD stopped losing weight and got discharged. But they were so concerned about her that we had a nurse come check on her every few days to make sure she kept growing. And on our last day in the hospital I asked about renting a pump, they told me they don't have anymore. The one I had was for hospital use only. So they sent me home empty-handed, except for a bunch of syringes to use "to feed my pumped milk".

Thankfully my parents were visiting and wanted to see us succeed. They ran out to BRU an hour before closing and bought a PIS so I wouldn't have to feed formula. Thankfully they had the $300 to spend on one. It would have been nice to buy one cheaper online, but there was no time. The next day my mom called a bunch of private LCs for their help and sought a couple of small shops to see about a Lactina rental (since I was EPing at this point). Nobody returned their calls. The shop was supposed to be open on Saturday and when my parents got there, it was closed.

For the next few weeks I EPed around the clock, spent hours trying to latch, then finally gave up and syringe fed. My parents went back home (they were here only a week) and my husband had to go back to work. And here I was, stuck all alone in a big empty house all day long, so occupied with the pumping/latching/feeding cycle that I didn't have any time to eat, let alone hop on my computer and seek more information. Really, it was that bad. I poured over my books and called yet more LCs. Finally finally finally I got DD to latch using a nipple shield. And that was the first step to a normal nursing relationship.

I didn't call LLL for a variety of reasons. Firstly, I thought that the meetings were it. And I was still very sore from my C-section that I couldn't make it to a meeting. Secondly, I have some friends and family who used to be associated with LLL and have since lost contact because they feel the group is too political and militant. And since all I had read up until this point was that it was mom's fault that baby couldn't latch, I felt too vulnerable to open myself up to that type of criticism. I had really wanted to attend meetings beforehand, but they all happen during the day while I'm at work.

A few months later after I had returned to work, my supply took a huge hit and I was having a lot of trouble pumping enough. I called an LC one night. . just found her in the phone book, and left a message about really needing to see her. I was in tears. I never heard from her. Thankfully at this point I was feeling better and could surf the internet at work, so I tried all sorts of things. I ended up on domperidone and continued to take it for the next year. I really wanted to try LLL but again, I'm at work.

It wasn't so much that I was uneducated, or didn't have access to the internet or books. I had plenty of resources. . more than most probably. But resources are different from support. What I needed was for someone to sit down with me and help, sister to sister. I didn't need the cold black text of web pages or books. And I really didn't need the scare tactics used by home health nurse, who I finally told to never come back before my baby was growing fine.

I'm an educated, middle-class Caucasian woman who lives in the middle of a mid-sized city. I own a house, a car, a dishwasher, and many other things that a lot of people do not have (and yes, I feel very fortunate). I could afford the pump, all the feeding supplies I required, and the domperidone. And I could have afforded formula, too. Both my parents and ILs BF and were very supportive. But despite all of this, I _still_ did not feel I had enough support. I felt I had plenty of "stuff" but no one to show me how to use it. I felt alone, scared, and trapped, and nobody really cared enough to return our phone calls or put effort forth to help. I know there are a lot of good LCs out there, but based on my experience I feel the "find an LC!" mantra to be more lipservice than anything.


Sadly, your story is so much like mine. But my dd was never able to bf from the tap.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
HA! My kid didn't give up the bottle until 2.5, and he pretty much never took a bottle unless someone was holding him.The real advantage was that my hands were free while he drank the bottle (which usually took 20+ minutes, too).

My dd is 23 months old, and still wont drink if she isn't being held. We use sippy cups (and did since 12 months old) but refuses to drink if she isn't cuddled "just so". 99% of the time I have to hold the cup for her, too. On a rare occassion she will take a few sucks holding it herself if she is on my lap. I thought my dd was the only one like that!


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375* 
I think it is truly unfair to say mothers who bottle feed do not connect with their children. NOT every one who holds a bottle to their babies is doing it because they WANT too. And NOT everyone who holds that bottle is holding formula, it might just be bm in there. And formula is not evil even if it is in that bottle, bottles are not evil.

Thank you.

Whether anyone here believes that I--or anyone else--tried "hard enough" to breastfeed is irrelevant.

To say that I FF my child b/c I was "too lazy to really try" bfing is hurtful and rude.

To imply that FF mothers do so so they can hand the bottle to their child and do what they want is presumptuous.

To imply that all FF mothers prop bottles is ridiculous. (I was VERY upset to find that my MIL was propping my DS bottle!)

I UNDERSTAND THAT MDC IS PRO-BFING. I get it. But in the same way angry feminists turn me off, so do angry lactivists. You get more flies with honey than vinegar. I do not understand why it is okay on here to gang-up on FF mothers. Whether they chose to do it out of laziness or as a last resort, you (in a general sense) announcing that they didn't try hard enough, they're bad mothers, and that formula is evil is NOT going to convince them to bf.

The whole point of this thread (at least, I think) was that the bfing community needs to be up-front about how difficult BFing CAN BE. The sheer number of posts on this thread makes it obvious that it does not come naturally to everyone.

Yes, I DO wish that more had been said/printed/etc... about the difficulties that can occur in BFing, instead of just "poo-poohing" them as if they happen only once in a blue moon. I read a lot, on here, the internet, and books, about bfing. NOT ONCE did I see anything about "flat nipples." Imagine my surprise when the nurse looked at my nipples in disgust and shoved a sheild at me.


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## jillmamma (Apr 11, 2005)

I nurse because I am lazy...
~ don't want to fix bottles
~ don't want to wash said bottles
~ don't want to haul around extra stuff in my diaper bag
~ don't want to actually have to get out of bed every time my newborn awakens to feed him/her (way easier to latch kid on and go back to sleep)
~ don't want to spend a lot of time getting formula stains out of baby clothes
~ don't want to smell the NASTY stinky poop (well, my 2 year old's poop is pretty bad now that she eats mostly solids)
~ don't want to have to worry about making sure we have enough formula in the house
~ can't stand the smell and taste of it...mama milk is SO much sweeter in taste and smell!
~ don't want to have to take my kids to the doctor all the time because they would get sick more often (NOT fun with both an active toddler/preschooler and an infant!)
~ don't want both hands tied up to feed baby when out (I can get baby positioned in sling to nurse and have one or both hands free while walking around)
~ don't want to worry about how to feed my baby in the event of a natural disaster like a hurricane (we had to evacuate for Hurricane Rita when DD was just 3 weeks old)


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## MaryJaneLouise (Jul 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 

The whole point of this thread (at least, I think) was that the bfing community needs to be up-front about how difficult BFing CAN BE. The sheer number of posts on this thread makes it obvious that it does not come naturally to everyone.

*Yes, I DO wish that more had been said/printed/etc... about the difficulties that can occur in BFing,* instead of just "poo-poohing" them as if they happen only once in a blue moon. I read a lot, on here, the internet, and books, about bfing. NOT ONCE did I see anything about "flat nipples." Imagine my surprise when the nurse looked at my nipples in disgust and shoved a sheild at me.









: ITA

..... AND HOW TO FIX the difficulties that can occur. I DON'T think talking about the difficulties would scare anybody... as long as they know that there ARE fixes! Or at least helps. One lady in my local LLL says, there can be speed bumps, but they don't HAVE to turn into stop signs. I wish that attitude were more common


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

I disagree that the breastfeeding community doesn't talk about the difficulties that can occur. Every book I read, the LLL meeting I went to, my midwives, the bf peer support group I volunteered all talked about the potential difficulties and how to overcome.

I am absolutely shocked that people don't realize that there can be problems.


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## Bellejar (Oct 2, 2005)

Breastfeeding is harder for the first couple months to be sure. I have breastfed two children for a total of 3 1/2 years at this point. My 25 month old is probably going to wean during my pregnancy. I remember having horrible difficulties in the beginning. Blisters, bleeding, rawness, horrible latch problems. I think the nipple shields would have been the demise of my breastfeeding relationship if I had continued using them. Once I got home I just put them away and worked at the latch. After my milk came in I just stuck with it. Luckily my first daughter gained. The only thing that kept me going was everything I had read about breastmilk v. formula. I have allergies, I didn't want my children to have them. Many other factors. I agree with the above posters that there is a lack of support. Where I live I am lucky to see people BF for 3 months (mostly because they go back to work). I have used my PIS less than 10 times. I know I wouldn't have lasted long with that. We never used bottles for anything. I never left my girls with anyone when they were young enough to need them.


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## courtenay_e (Sep 1, 2005)

I read the first page or two when the thread started. I don't know if this has been said, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating.

I was a nanny for fifteen years and bottle fed for most of that time, making bottles, warming them, worrying about where I was going with the child so that I was in a place with "safe" water, and/or a place to warm the bottle up. I just did some post partum overnight work with twins, born at 36 weeks, whose mom's OB said that 36 weeks (so for twins, term) babies can't POSSIBLY latch properly (which is sooooo untrue), so she didn't even try to nurse. Let me tell you. After having nannied and then having my own two who were exclusively breastfed, and then going back to bottle feeding? I nearly went out of my mind. It would have been sooooo freaking much easier to roll over, open my shirt, latch the buggers on, and GO BACK TO SLEEP! Instead, I had to go GET the bottles, warm the bottles, feed the babies, and THEN deal with the incompatibility of formula with the babies' bellies, and then I'd finally get back to sleep two and a half hours or so later.

Why do most moms in our society think that bottle feeding is easier? What I've found from informal surveying is that it's because basically it means that you can leave your child with the bottle with whomever you'd like. With a breastfed baby, you're "forced" to bring the baby with you, or come back to feed the baby when the BABY wants, NOT when the mother wants. And in our selfish, self centered society, leaving a baby with grandma to go do whatever is soooo much better than breastfeeding, even if it means all the hassle of bottle making, cleaning, etc. And yes, I know that that is an inflammatory statement, and that this isn't the case with EVERY mother in the world who bottle feeds...but I really believe, from the people I know who bottle feed because it's easier, that that's the number one reason that they do so. Ease of leaving baby, or handing off responsibility to one's spouse, etc.


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## courtenay_e (Sep 1, 2005)

oh, and I know that I had the ideal situations, but breastfeeding was for me easier than bottle feeding ever was, even the first few weeks. My babies latched on, nursed, and did it perfectly, right from the start. Well, okay, my son clicked and smacked for a few weeks, but it didn't hurt me a whit, and he gained an ounce a day for weeks on end, so OBVIOUSLY there wasn't a milk transfer issue...


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## abharrington (Jun 30, 2007)

i do think many in our society think bottle feeding, specifically formula, is easier because (1) breastfeeding can hurt, at the begining and for quite some time and (2) because you are physically tied to that baby (or the pump and its million parts) all the time, every day. but now at 8 months, bfing is SO much easier. just pull up the shirt. like 11 pages of posts have said, it is so much quicker. dd can eat in about 5 mins. she eats anywhere, anytime, no problems. we save tons of money and she is happier. i would have it no other way, and pray nursing will go as well for all my children.

another thing, though...it makes me TIRED. i have had a hard time keeping my weight up and i am tired a lot. i know she is getting toms of my calories, and while i know this is best, i am tired.

i shoudl add i had intense pain for the first 2 months. latch was good, lots of help and support, just VERY sensitive skin. i was also a full time student for the first 4 months of her life. that meant she came to every class and every exam with me. dSIL didnt' understand why i woudl not want to just leave dd with a bottle with her (dSIL), because it would be so much easier. yes, it would have been in some senses, but i love having her with me. not sure i could concentrate while worrying about how she was doing. i dont' believe ffing is easier, but even if it were, i would not choose it. it is simply not as good.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
HA! My kid didn't give up the bottle until 2.5, and he pretty much never took a bottle unless someone was holding him.The real advantage was that my hands were free while he drank the bottle (which usually took 20+ minutes, too).

That's not the average experience. Most babies will hold their own bottles before they're one. And don't tell me you've never ever even once been annoyed at having to stop everything and nurse/hold a bottle. because I wouldn't believe you.

Quote:

I understand the OPs situation, which seems to be past tense with an older child now, I'm in it w an infant FTT from food intolerance in my milk, I caused this to happen to him. Until you've been in this place, you really should not comment in a negative tone.
Oh good, so I can say all I like then, since I'm there and have been for over two years now. Great.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
That's not the average experience. Most babies will hold their own bottles before they're one.

He held his own BOTTLE - we had to hold HIM. I don't know how common it is, but most people I know with bottlefed babies make a habit of holding their kids during feedings. Honestly, I don't think it always has to be this big bonding thing anyway. Anyone who's ever typed "nak" is obviously not just sitting around lovingly bonding with their kids while nursing.


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## Mandynee22 (Nov 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jörð* 
It looks like they are all to colichelp.com and they still don't work for me.










They didn't work for me either- not that I'm too interested in goat's milk formula but I just wanted to see what would happen LOL


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## Mandynee22 (Nov 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
He held his own BOTTLE - we had to hold HIM. I don't know how common it is, but most people I know with bottlefed babies make a habit of holding their kids during feedings. Honestly, I don't think it always has to be this big bonding thing anyway. Anyone who's ever typed "nak" is obviously not just sitting around lovingly bonding with their kids while nursing.


I wish I knew those people. I know a lot who've bottle propped. Then again.... I breast prop, I suppose
Anyway, my DS doesn't have bottles but I do let him hold and walk with a cup when he has one


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## treqi (Dec 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
WAY easier to nurse. No bottles. No washing. No mixing. No taking crap with me.

Step one- pull up shirt
step two- nurse

-Angela

BAH to you hippes that don't wear bras!

IME the only time I've ever FFed was someone elses babe and it was hella hard cause it took 2 hands (I didn't sling the babe untill it had "thrown up" like the mom said it would cause it happens every time







) BFing is easier on my conscience even if it was physically tough at first...... I would have a tough time with myself if I electively FFed..... Seriously did you guys see in the movie Marie Antoinette where she asks to feed her newborn and they tell her NO I was sobbing after that......


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treqi* 
BAH (I didn't sling the babe untill it had "thrown up" like the mom said it would cause it happens every time







)

Does she not know that is a dairy intolerance or soy or corn??? DO doctors not know this??? Even then sometimes they still throw up, it's GERD.

Apparently, if mom lacks a certain nutritient in pregnancy it increases reflux and GERD b/c of the flab not developing properly. I wish I remember where I read that b/c at the time I didn't think anything of it and now I think -- I did this to my child...

My bf baby throws up even with me DFGF, he has reflux (Upper GI study done, not a slap stick dx by a doc) which we use non-medicine measure to aid him. We used meds but they made him not hungry which was counter productive to FTT. It's been a ride with this babe. Funny, he does not throw up the Elemental formula which is a script usually. He does throw up dairy formula...

Oh, the trials of bfing and ffing...


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## treqi (Dec 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
Yes, I DO wish that more had been said/printed/etc... about the difficulties that can occur in BFing, instead of just "poo-poohing" them as if they happen only once in a blue moon. I read a lot, on here, the internet, and books, about bfing. NOT ONCE did I see anything about "flat nipples." Imagine my surprise when the nurse looked at my nipples in disgust and shoved a sheild at me.

I really don't know how people are so in the "dark" about BFing seriously, I took a 1 hour class from the hospital that was offered like 20 times throught my pregnancy and learned about flat nipples, supply and demand, engorgment, plugged ducts, mastits, holding postions, how your partner can assist you and LOTS more in 1 hour of my time or read ANY pregnancy book including Babywise and it will have tips on latch, nipple problems...... really I don't see how someone could be unprepared/not told about the difficulties of bfing.... I mean if its not talked about why is there a Breastfeeding Chalenges forum?


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## treqi (Dec 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375* 
Does she not know that is a dairy intolerance or soy or corn??? DO doctors not know this??? Even then sometimes they still throw up, it's GERD.

Oh..... I don't think shes on WIC and think she just buys the cheapest formula available which obviously her dd doesn't tolerate.... this is very judgy but she really isn't very "aware" of her dd's needs....


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treqi* 
I really don't know how people are so in the "dark" about BFing seriously, I took a 1 hour class from the hospital that was offered like 20 times throught my pregnancy and learned about flat nipples, supply and demand, engorgment, plugged ducts, mastits, holding postions, how your partner can assist you and LOTS more in 1 hour of my time or read ANY pregnancy book including Babywise and it will have tips on latch, nipple problems...... really I don't see how someone could be unprepared/not told about the difficulties of bfing.... I mean if its not talked about why is there a Breastfeeding Chalenges forum?

I think the problem is that there's rarely a balanced approach. It's either all sunshine and roses and happy woodland animals skipping around you will you nurse in a field of flowers, or hamburger nipples, breast infections, and half your breast in a pool of blood on your sheet because your teething baby bit you. I haven't seen a whole lot of info out there that's middle of the road.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treqi* 
BAH to you hippes that don't wear bras!

IME the only time I've ever FFed was someone elses babe and it was hella hard cause it took 2 hands (I didn't sling the babe untill it had "thrown up" like the mom said it would cause it happens every time







)


Poor baby. Who wants to throw up after every meal?









I somehow managed to perfect hands-free bottle feeding with DS in the Moby when he was smaller.







It must have been funny to see. I suppose technically that counts as bottle propping but erm he was on my chest so I could reach him if he choked (he never did). Plus he was still getting snuggly time.

You know what is HORRIBLE though? Did you ever see those contraptions that advertise to "moms too busy for constant feeding" that are basically a pacifier with a tube connected to a bottle of milk... Who is too busy to feed their child?! What's more important than that? DH bought one for me and I was livid... Then he claimed it was a joke. I considered cutting out a sports bra with the pacifier part sticking it out of it like a nipple would, then it would be pseudo-nursing (minus the good old bm







) but I never got around to it. But the idea is to basically set your baby down somewhere and have him eat alone while you go off doing other stuff. Terrible.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
I think the problem is that there's rarely a balanced approach. It's either all sunshine and roses and happy woodland animals skipping around you will you nurse in a field of flowers, or hamburger nipples, breast infections, and half your breast in a pool of blood on your sheet because your teething baby bit you. I haven't seen a whole lot of info out there that's middle of the road.
































That's so true.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treqi* 
I really don't know how people are so in the "dark" about BFing seriously, I took a 1 hour class from the hospital that was offered like 20 times throught my pregnancy and learned about flat nipples, supply and demand, engorgment, plugged ducts, mastits, holding postions, how your partner can assist you and LOTS more in 1 hour of my time or read ANY pregnancy book including Babywise and it will have tips on latch, nipple problems...... really I don't see how someone could be unprepared/not told about the difficulties of bfing.... I mean if its not talked about why is there a Breastfeeding Chalenges forum?

It is different everywhere. Because it was easy for you with what was available to you does not mean the same for everyone.

I also took a bf class. I was already going to bf, and all the women in my family had. I knew enough. But the LC jokingly told our childbirth class that _our milk wouldn't come in if we didn't go to the bf class_ and that _formula was just fine and there's no reason not to use it._

I knew that was a load, but some women there looked scared. She went over some problems with handouts that were useful, but she still scared some people. Not to mention how she talked about "those militant LLLers", etc...


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
Then please please please go back and edit the word formula in, even if it makes our replies to you nonsensical. This thread is going tot sit in cyberspace forever, and some uniformed and impressionable people might come along and start feeding their child unmodified goats milk because of it.

Phew, so you WERE feeding him a formula. I don't know why you didn't just say that at the beginning instead of trying to defend straight goats milk.

No, you've been consistently saying the straight unmodified goats milk is BETTER than a formula (modifed to alter fat, carb, protein and vitamin content). And that is truly dangerous, which is why we've been correcting you.

Wannabe...I have said over and over that I used a formula that I made at home. I think that you are the only person who is confused.

Many people PM'd asking for the recipe...I REALLY think you should re-read the things that I have posted.

There were posts where I typed "Goats Milk" because I have mentioned so many times that I was using a home made formula. I never once said that I had given him straight Goat's Milk, or suggested that anyone should do that. I said Goats milk formula many many times. I feel like you are just looking for something to attack me for.







:







:







:

Also, ITA w/PP's about holding babe while drinking a bottle. My son was never propped, and the only time he ever had a bottle without someone holding him or snuggling his was if we were driving. Many people do not bottle prop, or allow their kids to roam around with a bottle in their mouth. It was very important to us to maintain that special connection and closeness.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *truemists* 
You know what is HORRIBLE though? Did you ever see those contraptions that advertise to "moms too busy for constant feeding" that are basically a pacifier with a tube connected to a bottle of milk... Who is too busy to feed their child?!

People with other children to feed?

I wouldn't shell out money for something like that, but it sure would come in handy when my 2yo is crying for his lunch and the baby is hungry at the same time. And I admit that when I was supplementing, I occasionally propped up a bottle on a blanket for him so that I could take care of my toddler for a minute without the baby screaming.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treqi* 
I really don't know how people are so in the "dark" about BFing seriously, I took a 1 hour class from the hospital that was offered like 20 times throught my pregnancy and learned about flat nipples, supply and demand, engorgment, plugged ducts, mastits, holding postions, how your partner can assist you and LOTS more in 1 hour of my time or read ANY pregnancy book including Babywise and it will have tips on latch, nipple problems...... really I don't see how someone could be unprepared/not told about the difficulties of bfing.... I mean if its not talked about why is there a Breastfeeding Chalenges forum?

Everyone on here--and frankly, a lot in this very thread!--make it sound like all anyone ever has to do is "lift [shirt] and latch!" And you enter into the land of puppies and rainbows. Every book I read had only a very brief chapter on problems/challenges.

My hospital offered a class--unfortunately, by time it was mentioned/offered to me, the class before my DD had passed, and the next one wasn't offered until DS was 2 mo. old. Nothing like "too little, too late."

And frankly, I hadn't realized there was a bfing challenges forum until long after I had given up. It hadn't occurred to me to look for one--why would it? Isn't bfing easy for everyone?

Oh, and one more thing--all the different holds and positions. READING about them is one thing. EXECUTING them on your own is another. I LOVED the football hold. Unfortunately, the only time I could ever get it to work, was the one time one helpful nurse came in to show me. I never could get it positioned right on my own after that. There are some things that are best shown in person, hands on--which the all the reading in the world can't do. And while I do have a LLL in my area, I did not have a way to get the meetings.

Honestly, whether you or anyone else can "believe" that someone else can be so in the dark about bfing is irrelevant. This thread has clearly shown that I'm not the only one. We're not stupid. We're just ill-informed, with little to no real-life support system.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treqi* 
I really don't know how people are so in the "dark" about BFing seriously, I took a 1 hour class from the hospital that was offered like 20 times throught my pregnancy and learned about flat nipples, supply and demand, engorgment, plugged ducts, mastits, holding postions, how your partner can assist you and LOTS more in 1 hour of my time or read ANY pregnancy book including Babywise and it will have tips on latch, nipple problems...... really I don't see how someone could be unprepared/not told about the difficulties of bfing.... I mean if its not talked about why is there a Breastfeeding Chalenges forum?

Clearly you didn't read my post where I described the BFing class I took. Essentially, it was all roses and sunshine and when I had asked about plugged ducts and mastitis, I was basically told I didn't need to worry about it because it rarely happens.

I also said that even knowing about all that, it didn't help me because the problem was with my _baby_. Pretty much all the BFing troubles I read about have to do with mom, such as leaking, plugged ducts, mastitis, positioning, safe foods/meds, etc. I never saw mentioned that a healthy, full-term baby would not be able to suck properly without a lot of help (in my DD's case it was because she wasn't putting her tongue in the right place). Everything I read said that if baby wouldn't suck, it was because mom gave baby a bottle or pacifier and thus her fault. I never saw anywhere that said that _baby_ can have a problem that's nobody's fault, outside of cleft palate/lip.

And the BFing challenges forum. . you do realize that it's been a fairly recent addition, right? And I think it was added because this is MDC, where most people are interested in breastfeeding. So it's a place where like-minded mamas can join in discussing issues. The few other boards I've visited on occasion might have a BFing board, but definitely no place to specifically discuss issues. Besides, there isn't nearly as much knowledge there as there is here, and when you encounter a problem, people pretty much tell you to just switch to bottle feeding and formula because "it's the same thing".


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

One more thing--not entirely related.

I just did a search on here on flat nipples--my specific problem--and found nothing.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
People with other children to feed?

I wouldn't shell out money for something like that, but it sure would come in handy when my 2yo is crying for his lunch and the baby is hungry at the same time. And I admit that when I was supplementing, I occasionally propped up a bottle on a blanket for him so that I could take care of my toddler for a minute without the baby screaming.

Mmm good point. I'm definitely not looking forward to having two babies in the house who don't know what patience is yet. I think that's why my pregnancy is going so fast - I'm almost dreading the day my sweet second Bunny joins the outside world - at least while (s)he is inside, I don't have to worry about who to feed first.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Those paci hose contraptions have me really LOL. I might have used one in my unknowning days w ds1 (poor kid, being the first) in the car for sure, not around the house. I did a lot of traveling w him visiting my ailing grandmother 1 to 2 times per month, it's a 4 hour drive, once it took me 7 hours to get home -- he would not be contented. He screamed and I stopped, it was a nightmare of a trip home. He just kept wanting more to eat.

Before this #4 could hold his bottle, my dd would feed him, she's 3. She or her other brothers would while I fixed dinner. She understands the bottles have mimi milk in them. Now #4 is able to hold his own and he does sometimes when I'm busy with the others. I didn't really know he could do this until I had to put him down one day to break up 2 from killing each other and I came back and he was feeding himself...

It isn't as hard a laugh as a Wee Wee Tee Pee... OMG someone is making a killing off of moms who must have EVERY THING, too bad the moms don't realize you have to wash it or if you don't circ, the wee wee to the air thing just does not happen (or at least it hasn't to my uncirced baby).


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## pampered_mom (Mar 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KellMcK* 
Speaking as a mom who was able to breastfeed for a while but switched to formula (not going to go into my story here - that's not the point) - I feel that breastfeeding would have been much more convenient:
- can feed wherever, whenever, don't need to wonder if you packed all your feeding supplies in the diaper bag
- you don't have to worry about when you're going to run out, or where to buy on sale, who's got it on sale, and do I have a coupon somewhere?
- there are nipples to wash but it's no big deal since you're in the shower anyway








- no having to make bottles!

I really think that breastfeeding is way more convenient than formula feeding.

That was certainly my experience. I remember when I was working towards all FF that there was one time in particular when ds really wanted to eat NOW and since I was still recovering from my c/s I absolutely did not want to get up and make a bottle. Even with all of the struggles that I went through I still wish it had been enough to keep me bf'ing. It certainly would have been a great deal cheaper!


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
People with other children to feed?

I wouldn't shell out money for something like that, but it sure would come in handy when my 2yo is crying for his lunch and the baby is hungry at the same time. And I admit that when I was supplementing, I occasionally propped up a bottle on a blanket for him so that I could take care of my toddler for a minute without the baby screaming.

Yeah, yet another reason BFing is easier. Once a BF baby is latched you can go about your business one handed (or hands free with sling). Bottle fed babies neeed two hands and your undivided attention.

BTW, they're called podee bottles, and their *legitimate* use is for mothers of multiples (esp 3 or more) and mothers with disabilities.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *annettemarie* 
I think the problem is that there's rarely a balanced approach. It's either all sunshine and roses and happy woodland animals skipping around you will you nurse in a field of flowers, or hamburger nipples, breast infections, and half your breast in a pool of blood on your sheet because your teething baby bit you. I haven't seen a whole lot of info out there that's middle of the road.

Or even based on identifying and solving problems. "oh, I had TERRIBLE split nipples, but wow, when I started using lanolin and airing them, it made SUCH a difference" type of thing.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
He held his own BOTTLE - we had to hold HIM. I don't know how common it is, but most people I know with bottlefed babies make a habit of holding their kids during feedings. Honestly, I don't think it always has to be this big bonding thing anyway. Anyone who's ever typed "nak" is obviously not just sitting around lovingly bonding with their kids while nursing.

Naking is a lot more bonding than handing the kid a bottle they then wander off with. (as my toddler is doing right now with a cup of cow's milk and some apple)

And I'm not sure why you had to hold your baby while he held his own bottle. Most kids can sit unsupported by 7/8/9 months. In any case, the people I know who bottle feed and whose kids can't crawl yet put the child in a bouncy seat and hand them the bottle.


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

*shrug* I held my boy until he was nearly 2. He held his bottle, to be sure, but had to be on my lap. He still takes every 3rd bottle or so while I hold him, and I do have to hold him.

Until he started to drink by himself, I would say we got an awful lot of bonding in.







I'm not all that mainstream, I suppose. He just liked to cuddle with me while he had his milkies. He still nuzzles my breasts when he wants milk, and I haven't nursed him in, oh, 25 months?


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
Naking is a lot more bonding than handing the kid a bottle they then wander off with. (as my toddler is doing right now with a cup of cow's milk and some apple)

And I'm not sure why you had to hold your baby while he held his own bottle. Most kids can sit unsupported by 7/8/9 months. In any case, the people I know who bottle feed and whose kids can't crawl yet put the child in a bouncy seat and hand them the bottle.

My DS (8 mo) has been sitting unassisted since 6 mo, and crawling for about a month and a half. He is more than capable of holding the bottle himself. BUT, he won't. I "have" to hold him and the bottle when I feed him. I do not find this to be a burden. Nor, as someone else suggested earlier on, have I _ever_ been annoyed that I had to drop everything to feed him. He's pretty predictable about needing to eat; it's not as if it's a surprise when it happens.

Additionally, for those who brag about how you can bf and do something else at the same time, I've gotten pretty good at holding him and the bottle with one hand (while sitting in a chair, obviously) and eating (something simple, like a sandwhich) or reading with the other. Which, I'm sure someone else will take as me failing to bond w/ my child. *Shrug* I can't win.


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## WannabeaFarmer (Jul 7, 2006)

We have found that bfing is easier. I personally before I had DD never knew how to even mix a bottle. Once we found out that DD was preemie, and "needed" supplements cause they thought she wasnt growing, I was confused and DP had to mix the supplements.
Then we started to look into how much this special preemie formula that the doc wanted her to have was gonna cost.







: Also then found out that WIC didnt provide this at the time.
So we started to supplement with EBM. DP was still able to feed DD and we were still bfing. I just recently read the directions on a can of formula for a friends baby that I watch. This was my first true experience actually mixing formula. It was really messy trying to hold baby and mix a bottle at the same time. By the time I was done she was hyperventilating.
I have had a rough start with DD bfing, but because the hospital provided me with a great follow up at home nurse and support system, I was able to have a successful bfing relationship.
As far as feeling tied down, we didnt have a choice because of DD's medical problems we were not able to afford child care for me to go back to work or even to find a qualified caregiver for us to have a nite out.
We have been out 3 times since DD was born(now 22mo) on our own.
I also had major issues when I was in the room and DD was being fed by DP. She would NOT take a bottle from him. I had to be completly gone in order for him to successfully feed her.
I just couldnt get her to bottle feed with BM or formula. I just thought it was totally easier in my situation to bf her.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Crazydiamond, you raise a very, very good point. The support we have for breastfeeding isn't built-in support, it's support that you have to go out and find yourself, as if breastfeeding is one of those extras that you need to finance yourself if you have problems. I have heard of many cases where the policies in the hospitals and the attitudes of the HCPs mean that it is almost impossible to exclusively breastfeed from day one. If there are medical issues surrounding breastfeeding, the idea that we need to fix them so breastfeeding can work is almost non-existent. Usually any sign that there is trouble with breastfeeding means to move to bottle feeding.

I think a lot of people in the lactation or breastfeeding counseling field can be guilty of this too because the attitudes surrounding bottle vs. breast are so charged. People are afraid of being seen as intolerant of mother's choices or contradicting what a doctor might say because of potential repurcussions. (And, yes, I _am_ quite serious about this, in case anyone was going to ask that.) Then there is the fact that some LCs aren't really all that knowledgeable, and may possibly be overcommitted with the number of people they have to serve because having IBCLCs and a good lactation department is not a priority for many hospitals.


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## moonbeem (Sep 7, 2006)

havent' read the whole thread, it's huge...just responding to the original question...

Heck Yeah breastfeeding is easier....I cringe to think of all the work involved with artificial feeding.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
Yeah, yet another reason BFing is easier. Once a BF baby is latched you can go about your business one handed (or hands free with sling). Bottle fed babies neeed two hands and your undivided attention.

Er, no and no. Breastfeeding takes both hands and most of my attention, for me, unless we're side-lying (which is nice, but it's not like I can get anything done that way). And it's not a learning curve thing, it's a "my breasts are too big and heavy for the baby to stay latched unless I'm helping him get the right angle" thing.

And why on earth would you need two hands for a bottlefed baby? I never did. One hand, and no more attention than breastfeeding requires.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
And I'm not sure why you had to hold your baby while he held his own bottle. Most kids can sit unsupported by 7/8/9 months.

He could sit unsupported at 5 months. But he'd scream and refuse to drink if I tried to give him a bottle when I wasn't holding him.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
Additionally, for those who brag about how you can bf and do something else at the same time, I've gotten pretty good at holding him and the bottle with one hand (while sitting in a chair, obviously) and eating (something simple, like a sandwhich) or reading with the other. Which, I'm sure someone else will take as me failing to bond w/ my child. *Shrug* I can't win.


Yeah that's true too. I fail to see why you would need two hands to bottle feed but only one to breastfeed... I manage just fine with cradling him in one hand and holding the bottle with the same hand. I do have to be sitting for it, but if I'm standing, I can just pop him in a sling. (And really, we usually sit still for milky time.)


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## Clarinet (Nov 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
One more thing--not entirely related.

I just did a search on here on flat nipples--my specific problem--and found nothing.


I just looked up "flat" and this is what I found: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...archid=5999227. I didn't look through the threads but I did see one that was titled "help with flat nipples" or something like that.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *truemists* 
Yeah that's true too. I fail to see why you would need two hands to bottle feed but only one to breastfeed... I manage just fine with cradling him in one hand and holding the bottle with the same hand. I do have to be sitting for it, but if I'm standing, I can just pop him in a sling. (And really, we usually sit still for milky time.)

Totally off topic, but I just read your siggy--your kids are going to be close together, too! It makes me feel much better


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
Totally off topic, but I just read your siggy--your kids are going to be close together, too! It makes me feel much better









I'm terrified, personally.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *truemists* 
I'm terrified, personally.









That definately makes two of us!


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## treqi (Dec 31, 2006)

Ok so the bf classes in your area were bunk.... Theres still books every book I read that mentioned breastfeeding was upfront that it was difficult at first and got easier with time.... do a google search for "breastfeeding problems" and you get 2,230,000 results and the first site covered low milk supply, mastitis, a poor latch, sore nipples, plugged ducts, leaking milk, colic, refusing to nurse, biting, and engorgement...... so I'm sorry if people are offended that I think there are plenty of resources about BFing but when I got Mastitsis I opened my What to Expect the First Year book and did a google search and was treating myself within 20min.......


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

None of those resources are worth a damn when you're home alone with a baby who won't latch and there's no one there to help you out in person.


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## tarahsolazy (Jan 26, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
But if it isn't easier then why do women switch to formula when there aren't medical reasons?

Also, it is easier to spend 5 minutes versus 30 feeding your child. Not saying it is better, but it is EASIER which is what I am talking about. Not whether or not it's worth the sacrifice. Of course it's worth it!! ITA with that.


I haven't spent more than 5 minutes per feeding nursing either of my babies once they were around 2 months. I spray like a firehose, and DS and now DD both figured out how to eat fast at young ages.

I WOH more than full-time, and so I pump a lot, which is sort of crappy. However, I have never fed either kid a bottle. My DH does, when I'm not home. But when I'm home, its 5 minutes of cuddling every 2-3 hours, can't get much easier than that. If I were a SAHM, it would be even easier, no pumping.

If you have trouble at the beginning, that is a challenge, and much tougher than formula. But if it all works right, there's not much to it. But different things are "hard" for different people. Your definition of easy and other mamas' may not be the same.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
None of those resources are worth a damn when you're home alone with a baby who won't latch and there's no one there to help you out in person.

Exactly, which I though I had explained.

I imagine it must be kinda like tying your shoe--pretty easy, and second nature once you figure it out. And pretty easy to get the hang of it someone is there showing you. But try typing it out so that it makes sense. Not so easy.

I think the value of real life, face-to-face help is being seriously underrated here.


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## treqi (Dec 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
And pretty easy to get the hang of it someone is there showing you. But try typing it out so that it makes sense. Not so easy.

I think the value of real life, face-to-face help is being seriously underrated here.

I never had ANYONE help me breastfeed (other than getting me water if I forgot it) nobody showed me or helped me with that first latch I just did it and yes it hurt like hell for the first week and I had to use a nipple shield to heal my nipples but nobody taught me how to use it I just read the package directions. I dunno it wasn't really "hard" infact even from the start it was just mainly painful......

Quote:

*Originally Posted by pookel* None of those resources are worth a damn when you're home alone with a baby who won't latch and there's no one there to help you out in person.
I was mainly talking about perparing before hand while pregnant......


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treqi* 
I was mainly talking about perparing before hand while pregnant......

Which helps even less, since you don't have the baby there to actually try what you're reading about.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
But if it isn't easier then why do women switch to formula when there aren't medical reasons?

Also, it is easier to spend 5 minutes versus 30 feeding your child. Not saying it is better, but it is EASIER which is what I am talking about. Not whether or not it's worth the sacrifice. Of course it's worth it!! ITA with that.

I think because we live in a bottle feeding culture. Doctors don't know how to fix breastfeeding problems and often sabotage them. Women often don't have the support to overcome obstacles.

It never took me 30 minutes to nurse.

I babysat as a teen and bottle feeding took a lot more time for me.


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## carriebft (Mar 10, 2007)

I think breastfeeding is a breeze (and the biggest comment I get from moms who try breastfeeding is that it is not as hard as they thought it would be from all their reading!)









I just love being able to clean, walk, enjoy outtings, etc while feeding at the same time. Plus, the protection breastfeeding gives means less doctor visits, illness, and all that hassle.

It's always the right temp and always the needed amount available. Plus it puts them to sleep...that's a time saver! And causes less stomach upsets....also a time saver and frustration saver!

Well, you get the point ^_^


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## VanessaS (May 22, 2007)

Quote:

I guess I would say that breastfeeding IS easier, but in the early days it's not always easy.
Very true. BF was hell the first couple of months with both of my kids and my DH had to act like my personal cheerleader to keep me going. However, after that it was much less work than FF (I bottle-fed pumped milk sometimes and we found the whole bottle thing a PITA).

After about the 6th month they're done eating in 15 minutes or less, and it's nice cuddle time so I don't mind. My mom doesn't really understand that. She asked me what bedtime routine we have and I said, "I put her in her jammies and feed her." She was like, "That's all? No bath, lullaby, oil message, bedtime story, carrying, rocking... NOTHING?" I said, "What's the point? She eats her milk and she's out cold."







I totally regret weaning my firstborn at 11 months because he was constantly sick after that (my babies never even get colds! -- even when everyone else in the house is sick) and it was a nightmare getting him to sleep.

BF definitely wins when it comes to traveling, as well. My parents live in the States so we have to take long flights once or twice a year. I'd just feed the baby to sleep and everytime they'd start to wake up, I'd feed them again and they'd go right back to sleep. For eight hours! It was so great. I watched tv, read, and chatted with my neighbors the whole flight. While the FF babies screamed the WHOLE WAY.







And when we're on the go I just put the baby in the carrier, and a couple of diapers in my purse. Very convenient!

And another convenience: my first had normal poops but by second only goes like once every 4 or 5 days. Yup, you heard right. And, no she's not constipated, she just has a very efficient digestive system. Try doing THAT with some formula!









A woman at my playgroup swears that FF is easier but her kid has asthma and allergies and is constantly sick with all kinds of respiratory viruses, etc. They basically live in the emergency room. There's not necessarily a connection but I'm sure the formula isn't helping, at least. My first niece (FF) also has allergies and asthma and my sister was at her wits end with her. She had so much trouble breathing that she'd tear her hair out in big clumps and just cry and cry. It was so terrible. My second one (BF) is sooooo healthy and cheerful.

And my husband wants to add: he really likes not having to feed the baby in the middle of the night.







He always looks really pityingly at every man who does. The wives always brag about how their DH's "help out" but my DH just says, "Poor sap." Especially since the dads all WOH and the moms all SAH.


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## carriebft (Mar 10, 2007)

Oh FLIGHTS! yes!!!! We got stuck on the runway for 2 hours before an 8 hour flight...breastfeeding saved us! And then again at Christmas....7 extra hours of travel that we hadn't planned for (delays, traffic, etc). Thanks to the never ending boob milk supply, we made it


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## Cassiopeia (Sep 27, 2006)

I exclusively pumped for my first and supplemented (minimally) with formula. I always found transporting formula to just be really stressful. It felt like I had to do a lot of prep to go somewhere. Even with pumping, all I needed was the pump and an outlet (or car outlet) and I could feed him. So even though the pumping itself was a pain, I always felt prepared.

Probably whatever you're used to dealing with feels easiest.

I think the idea that bottlefeeding is easier comes from the fact that baby can hold a bottle on their own. I know people talk about bottle nursing and such, but IME, that isn't the norm. And once they're at an age where they have cows milk and not formula, it's really easy.

Anyway, bfing my second has certainly been a lot more enjoyable than what I did for my first, and definitely easier than pumping.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VanessaS* 

And another convenience: my first had normal poops but by second only goes like once every 4 or 5 days. Yup, you heard right. And, no she's not constipated, she just has a very efficient digestive system. Try doing THAT with some formula!









And my husband wants to add: he really likes not having to feed the baby in the middle of the night.







He always looks really pityingly at every man who does. The wives always brag about how their DH's "help out" but my DH just says, "Poor sap." Especially since the dads all WOH and the moms all SAH.

IDK...My son has always been an every few days pooper, since about 4 months of age. It didn't change when he went to the Goat's Milk (formula)...so that is not exclusive to BF'd babies. I think that is just how he is...









My DH enjoyed feeding DS and enjoyed being able to help out in the middle of the night after so many months of watching me do it all on my own. Every man is different...I know lots of guys who really do WANT to help out.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

And as far as traveling goes...everyine keeps saying that BFing wins hands down BUT what if you are driving??

When you are Driving formula does win as far as convenience/ease is concerned. You don;t have to stop driving to feed your baby. I don't know how many times we got stuck in traffic and I had to listen to my son cry while we tried to find a place to pull over so I could nurse him.

Also, how many times he had to cry while waiting for me because I was the only one who could feed him and occasionally it would be 4 or 5 minute before I could get to him. When we had to switch to formula that was one nice thing. He really didn't ever have to wait to eat again because it wasn't just one person who could do it.

I just think that some of the responses here are a little extreme...I know that there are lots of things about breastfeeding that are much more convenient, but in my experience FFing was insanely easy when I compared it to breastfeeding with issues. But then again we never had any issues with FFing that a lot of people have. If my son had health issues now, or if we would have chosen an expensive formula, or if he had trouble digesting it etc I would probably feel differently. He never got sick, and thrived on Goats milk formula which I know is not always the case with FF.

So I guess we had an unusually EASY formula feeding experience VS an unusually Difficult Breastfeeding experience. Which made FFing seem MUCH easier.


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## carriebft (Mar 10, 2007)

Feeding a child a bottle is dangerous in a car seat...just as dangerous, IMO, as breastfeeding a babe in a car seat (which I can do







) BOth have risks, but a hungry babe is a hungry babe.

PLUS, you can pump milk and give a bottle...and if you get stuck in traffic or something horrific happens (think of the emergency stories and the getting lost stories), you always have the boob to support the babe.

(im big on breastfeeding as a life, time, and frustration saver in emergency situations-- travel can have a lot of those)

Plus, no need to pack formula/buy when you get somewhere or worry about supply.


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## carriebft (Mar 10, 2007)

As a matter of example of what I mean: I was driving the 90 interstate in Ny and it got shut down completely between rochester and buffalo. we were stuck on that road for _16 hours_. We were childless then, but, had our daughter been born, the breast would have supported her through that time...both with nutrition and comfort. I think that is a time saver...it's a frustration and worry saver...


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

My daughter has been babysitting a baby who gets bottles (pumped milk in the beginning, now formula) and it seems more difficult to me. I had an oversupply problem during the first month or two, so I had to do some sprayed milk art on the wall across from my bed before latching Rain on sometimes (well, I tried to use a diaper to absorb, but it didn't always work) but once that stage passed it was literally a two-second process - lift and latch. For me, nursing was something I could do one-handed, or even no-handed if I laid down on the bed (I was a student then and would put my books behind her head and do math while nursing). I find that I need two for bottle-feeding, one to hold the baby and one to hold the bottle, although I can sort of hold it with my chin sometimes, if he isn't too wiggly.

But making bottles takes time, and washing the bottles takes time, and sometimes her finishes one and is still hungry, so we have to interupt him to go make another one.

Beyond that, though, my whole style of caregiving is different for a bottlefed baby. I "used" nursing for a whole lot more than just feeding my baby. Sometimes Rain wanted to nurse an almost-empty breast for a few minutes while falling asleep, for example, and because she had to face me to do it, she was blocked from a lot of distracting external stimuli. When I nursed, I often put Rain to the breast 3 or 4 or more times in an hour, just for a few minutes, and if you did that with bottles it would be really time consuming and you'd need to be making lots of 1-2 ounce bottles. To bottlefeed in that way would be much harder, but that's what's biologically normal for our species, especially during the early months.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam*
Also, how many times he had to cry while waiting for me because I was the only one who could feed him and occasionally it would be 4 or 5 minute before I could get to him.

But it takes 4 or 5 minutes to make a bottle anyway.... so at least our experience has been that there's always a few minute lag between when a bottle-fed baby first lets us know he's hungry and when he gets to eat. With breastfeeding, most of the time it was, again, literally two seconds.

And I guess nursing for me wasn't something you *did* really... it was more of something you did while doing other things anyway...

I guess it seems to me that the real issue is lack of information about how to manage breastfeeding difficulties, because without that knowledge it will be hard... just like bottlefeeding would be hard if you weren't able to read the directions on the can, or didn't have the wrist strength to screw on the bottle top, or didn't have clean water available. Comparing apples to apples - breastfeeding working well and bottlefeeding working well - I think breastfeeding is easier.

Dar


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## courtenay_e (Sep 1, 2005)

Oh, yes. I got stuck in Paris traveling from a family visit in Ireland, for two days. Dd is highly allergic, and I dare say that, were she formula fed, and had we found a formula that she could actually eat without side effects, we'd have been major league in trouble if we had had to 1) bring enough formula for a two week trip AND the extra case, just in case we got stranded somewhere, because her formula WOULDN"T have been available in Paris!! and it was newly post 9-11 and there were SEVERE limits on luggage allowances, especially in international travel...and 2) find safe water sources in Paris...we were out of cash, you really shouldn't drink tap water there...we'd only brought so much money because we'd planned to be gone a certain length of time. We did bring a little extra, but, gee, the trip was "done" and we used most of the extra on gifts in Duty Free in Ireland.







So...BOY was I happy that I breastfed.

Oh, and add to that the immune function of breastmilk. I was very VERY happy we had that available to us when THREE times I looked down at my newly trying to walk baby and saw her licking the floor in Charles DeGaul airport (we were there for twenty hours before we found out that they'd put us up in a hotel for the night...we were waiting in line...she needed to get down SOMETIME and I needed to PUT her down sometime). Yes, licking the floor. After that, I figured that breastmilk really DOES rock. I mean, um, yuck!


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## JessBB (Apr 10, 2007)

I think doing what you *want* to do will always _seem_ easier - the human brain pretty much a rationalizing machine. So, moms who are disinterested or ambivalent about bf will seize upon "anyone can feed the baby" even if they mix every formula bottle from age one day to one year. And moms like me who were absolutely he!! bent of bf'ing will tell themselves it's easier, even while pumping and supplementing with an SNS!

Another factor to consider is the emotional stress of one versus the other - it dovetails with my previous point. For me, because I so desperately wanted to bf, the stress of ff would have made it anything but "easy". But for moms who have no faith in their bodies (not really suprising, given our societal norms) the stress of being solely responsible for nourishing your baby could easily be overwhelming. Couple that with deep insecurity about NIP (which even I, a committed lactivist, feel sometimes) and an utter lack of support for bf, and that makes ff the "easy" choice, regardless of all the accoutrement involved in bottle-feeding.


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
And as far as traveling goes...everyine keeps saying that BFing wins hands down BUT what if you are driving??

When you are Driving formula does win as far as convenience/ease is concerned. You don;t have to stop driving to feed your baby. I don't know how many times we got stuck in traffic and I had to listen to my son cry while we tried to find a place to pull over so I could nurse him.

Nope, sorry, you just lean over the child and give them your breast, while driving.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wannabe* 
Nope, sorry, you just lean over the child and give them your breast, while driving.

While you're in the driver's seat and they're in the back seat? How?







:

Also, you should never breastfeed a child in a moving vehicle, even if they are in a carseat. If you get in a wreck, your body will prevent the carseat from protecting the child as it is supposed to. It is totally unsafe.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JessBB* 
Another factor to consider is the emotional stress of one versus the other - it dovetails with my previous point. For me, because I so desperately wanted to bf, the stress of ff would have made it anything but "easy".

See, for me it was the opposite. It was so much more stressful and hard to try to breastfeed, when I wanted so desperately for it to work and it wasn't. Giving him formula made me hate myself, but it was EASY.

When I was pregnant, the #1 message drilled into me by breastfeeding advocates and their literature was that you have to plan on breastfeeding, 100%. You have to be completely determined. Well ... maybe that works for other people. For me, it meant that when I gave that first bottle, I felt like a failure, and why did it even matter what I did from that point? I'd already failed. It's like trying to diet by forbidding yourself any sweets at all, and then you cave in and eat one bowl of ice cream and you just give up the diet altogether.

This is why, if I could recommend one book to new mothers, it would be "So That's What They're For!" That is the only breastfeeding book with a message that worked for me - keep trying. Even if you're not sure you can keep doing it, just try to make it for the first few weeks. Then see if you can make it another day. THAT is how to keep women breastfeeding.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Really, the answer is it depends. If you are struggling with BF and having to use an SNS, and your baby is feeding every 30 min or so... of course you aren't going to think it's easy to BF! Those few minutes preparing a bottle are nothing after working hard for maybe 30 min. to get a latch right...

On the other hand, this isn't the case for the majority of mothers. For most mothers, after they've learned the basics, BF is much more convienient. And for those like me who always worry about having enough of things (I take 3 diapers to the grocery store, just in case!) it's a lot less stressful. I had one week were BF was stressful, but I will BF for so much longer than that...


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

I guess I still don't really understand the purpose of this thread. It seems to me that the op has been answered and maybe doesn't like the answers? Some think it is easier, others not.

It is not so cut and dry an issue that if something is "easier" more people will do it. I also think it has been explained in many different ways what the real barriers are, and breastfeeding not actually being easier(to some) is not really a barrier on the top ten list of barriers to get women to breastfeed.

For some, breastfeeding is vastly easier, especially if you have proper support and information from the get-go.

For some it is very, very hard, you encounter many problems which make breastfeeding tremendously difficult, and formula seems easier. But really, the question nees to be asked are these physical problems? Or lack of information and support problems? Well we do know that answer, and more often than not, breastfeeding problems are the *direct result* of a lack of support and information. Only a very small percentage cannot physically breastfeed.

Again, I am going to argue that whether or not breastfeeding is actually easier than formula is a *RED HERRING*. It really isn't the issue.

Why don't more people breastfeed?

*1)Lack of support and information from the general public to MD's, to hospitals, to PEDs, to CNM's, to nurses, to OB's*

If I had a DIME for every piece of incorrect information a women I have known has gotten about breastfeeding from a "medical professional", that ultimately sabatouged her breastfeeding relationship, I would be stinking rich.

*2)Feeding an infant is presented as an EQUAL choice between formula and breastfeeding.*

If we were honest with women and said the first best choice is breastfeeding, the second is your pumped milk, the third is someone elses pumped milk and the fourth and the last is formula, how many women do you think might make a different choice? Or spend more time arming themselves with infrmation and surrounding themselves with suppport?

*3)Nurse and OB's are allowed kickbacks from formula companies and health insurance companies are too far behind on pushing for baby friendly hospitals*
Formula is a FOR PROFIT industry, lest we forget, and they spend vast amounts on marketing, which many times seems like "education." Milk, Money, Madness is a great resource dealing with how insidious formula companies really are.

*This is not about who is a "good" mom or a "bad" mom, this is not about laying out a guilt trip, this is about making sure women have the RIGHT to breastfeed and when you are not presented with the correct information and support from the very medical industry you are trusting to have the knowledge to help you make the best choice for you and your baby and succeed at breastfeed.*

I could honestly care less if someone wants to formula feed, seriously. To each his own. I do care passionately that women are given the correct and up-to-date information and support so they can make the best decision for their family.

If they decide to formula feed, so be it, but IME women who wanted to formula feed did not have all the facts nor the support and I can't tell you how many of these women subsequently breastfed when they did have the information and support. No one forced them to breastfeed, they finally had the information and support to breastfeed successfully.

I am passionate about people having the information to make an *informed choice* and that is what I care about.


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## the_lissa (Oct 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
This is why, if I could recommend one book to new mothers, it would be "So That's What They're For!" That is the only breastfeeding book with a message that worked for me - keep trying. Even if you're not sure you can keep doing it, just try to make it for the first few weeks. Then see if you can make it another day. THAT is how to keep women breastfeeding.

ITA. That is the book I recommend. I cringe when I see people recommend the WomanLy Art of Breastfeeding. I was totally committed to breastfeeding and that book turned me off so much. I can't imagine how people would react who weren't as committed to breastfeeding.


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_lissa* 
ITA. That is the book I recommend. I cringe when I see people recommend the WomanLy Art of Breastfeeding. I was totally committed to breastfeeding and that book turned me off so much. I can't imagine how people would react who weren't as committed to breastfeeding.

ITA!
My all time favorite resource, besides "So That's What There For" is http://www.kellymom.com Concise and easy to find information IMHO.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treqi* 
I never had ANYONE help me breastfeed (other than getting me water if I forgot it) nobody showed me or helped me with that first latch I just did it and yes it hurt like hell for the first week and I had to use a nipple shield to heal my nipples but nobody taught me how to use it I just read the package directions. I dunno it wasn't really "hard" infact even from the start it was just mainly painful......

Then count yourself lucky because your babe latched and you had a relatively easy experience.

Others of us have struggled with inability to latch, doctors wanting to hospitalize for losing too much weight, threatening to call CPS if we didn't supplement, and failure to thrive. It wasn't just a case of sore nipples and a little struggle.

It was a _huge_ struggle, so much that my DD who was born at a paltry 6lbs had lost a whole _pound_ and kept on losing. It was a case where my DD had a physical problem with nursing, where it took the help of experts to get her to manipulate her tongue correctly. These are techniques that experts spend years learning and mastering, not something I could get from a book or website. If all it took was me reading the package of the nipple shield, I wouldn't even think it was worth complaining about.







:

It's apparent you simply don't understand the magnitude of issues some of us have had. Let's hope you never have to experience it for yourself, firsthand.


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## leewd (Aug 14, 2005)

I find this thread fascinating and I wish I had the time to read all the replies, but alas I don't.

I think the OP made a very good point. In some cases, yes it IS easier to FF. I have found myself defending FF (even though I wouldn't do it) because of some of the more "militant" pro-BF stuff out there.

I had to FF DD1 after I got pregnant with DD2 and lost my milk. It was really no big deal. I was going to be running to dishwasher anyway, so what's a few bottles, rings, and nipples to add to the top rack? I also have a baby drainer and I would just dump everything in there and then make bottles straight from there. As for "warming bottles" I don't know anyone who does this except for EBM. Just use room temp water (filtered tap or bottled - whatever you prefer) and it's done.

My sister FF (medical reasons) and for nighttime feeds she kept the bottles in the room ready to be mixed. One bottle had the powder in it, another had the water in it. Dump, shake, and serve. It took the same amount of time that I took to go in, get DD out of bed, sit in chair, pop out boob and serve.

Sure she had more nasty old bottles sitting around than I did, but again dishwashers are amazing devises. And when she saw my pump and all I was doing at work, she couldn't believe how hard that looked!

Like the OP, I'm not saying anyone should switch to formula for non-medical reasons, but from my experience and those around me I don't see BF as "easier." If anything, I think they are about the same. Some things are harder if you BF and others things are harder if you FF.


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leewd* 
I think the OP made a very good point. In some cases, yes it IS easier to FF. I have found myself defending FF (even though I wouldn't do it) because of some of the more "militant" pro-BF stuff out there.

Could you clarify this for me? I want to understand what is considered more "militant" pro-bf stuff out there.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *studentmama* 
Could you clarify this for me? I want to understand what is considered more "militant" pro-bf stuff out there.

I'll give you one example. Some people have said that if a woman can't or won't breastfeed, she shouldn't have children. How cruel is that?


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## aiea (Jan 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
While you're in the driver's seat and they're in the back seat? How?







:

Also, you should never breastfeed a child in a moving vehicle, even if they are in a carseat. If you get in a wreck, your body will prevent the carseat from protecting the child as it is supposed to. It is totally unsafe.


Hi,

Jumping in late and this is running OT, but I have to ask:

You really should never BF in a moving vehicle? I do this all the time when DH is driving. I hadn't even given a thought about my body interfering with the carseat, until now... How is it unsafe? I am always seat-belted and the carseat is strapped in as it should be.


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## leewd (Aug 14, 2005)

pookel - I've heard it too. . . .

I will clarify by giving examples:

I went to a certain BF site which will remain nameless (not MDC) to ask for advise once upon a time. I did not read their "mission statement" very closely. I was simply reading the posts and thought I had found a wonderful and supportive group of BF moms. When I asked advice, it became clear very quickly that my WOH was a problem for them. When they said "EBF" they meant Exclusively Breatfed at the BREAST. My pumping while at work was not good enough!

I have mentioned my sisters supply issues, and I've gotten the same snarky and militant comments time and again that imply that if she had REALLY wanted to BF, she could have. . . Lip service is always given to the "medical exceptions" where FF becomes necessary, but when a particular case is mentioned, the more "militant" types will give you 10 reasons why that particular situation should not have resulted in FF (i.e. "She should have read Dr. Hale's book and changed meds." "She should have tried what I did and it would have worked." "She could have just . . . .")

These people mean well! I realize they are trying hard to educate, but sometimes we need to add a dash of kindness toward our fellow women.


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
I'll give you one example. Some people have said that if a woman can't or won't breastfeed, she shouldn't have children. How cruel is that?

Well frankly, I think that is absolutely disgusting someone would say that, however I find it equally disgusting that people who advocate for breastfeeding are lumped in the same group and one can't seperate someone who obviously lacks any empathy for other human beings as something that has anything to do with breastfeeding.

That isn't someone who is militant about breastfeeding, that is someone who is militant about making choices for other human beings without having respect for that persons choice in the matter. Two very different things.

But of course I cringe at the sight of seeing militant and breastfeeding together because I have heard that many times for many things that were not militant whatsoever so I think we do need to be careful with language.

Why do people say such horrible things???????


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leewd* 
pookel - I've heard it too. . . .

I will clarify by giving examples:

I went to a certain BF site which will remain nameless (not MDC) to ask for advise once upon a time. I did not read their "mission statement" very closely. I was simply reading the posts and thought I had found a wonderful and supportive group of BF moms. When I asked advice, it became clear very quickly that my WOH was a problem for them. When they said "EBF" they meant Exclusively Breatfed at the BREAST. My pumping while at work was not good enough!

I have mentioned my sisters supply issues, and I've gotten the same snarky and militant comments time and again that imply that if she had REALLY wanted to BF, she could have. . . Lip service is always given to the "medical exceptions" where FF becomes necessary, but when a particular case is mentioned, the more "militant" types will give you 10 reasons why that particular situation should not have resulted in FF (i.e. "She should have read Dr. Hale's book and changed meds." "She should have tried what I did and it would have worked." "She could have just . . . .")

These people mean well! I realize they are trying hard to educate, but sometimes we need to add a dash of kindness toward our fellow women.

This really is what I am trying to hammer home. Unfortunately we humans judge. It's what we do, but I think it's important to seperate our judgements from education(easier said than done, right?). Why oh why do women say these things to each other?????????????

Sorry, I needed to use a lot of questions marks because I don't understand how being cruel to one another is going to help someone breastfeed, especially after the fact. Can't we all look at our own situations and think of things we would have done different. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Just using your sisters situation as an example, yes, it's easy to trouble shoot from the end result of what she shoulda, coulda, woulda, but in reality, all these things should have been dealt with the appropriate information and knowledgable staff from the get-go. I know we can sit here and say folks should read this or that, but really, where is the medical communities responsibility in all this. you trust that your doctor/cnm/nurse is going to give you the right info, unfortunately most times they don't. It really is such a frustrating situation. But it really also goes back to the barriers I discussed earlier.

Personally I think it is such a waste of time to worry about semantics of what is really easier, because frankly, it is going to be different for everyone, and also to worry about super judgemnetal moms. Breastfeeding is probably the least thing I get judged for, but I am not going to up and change my parenting because someone else doesn't like it or is terribly rude to me.

It really goes back to the beginning and what can we do to ensure that women start of with the best start to make sure they can succeed in breastfeeding. I feel like time is far better spent at breaking down the barriers to ensure a good start more than anything else.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
See, for me it was the opposite. It was so much more stressful and hard to try to breastfeed, when I wanted so desperately for it to work and it wasn't. Giving him formula made me hate myself, but it was EASY.

When I was pregnant, the #1 message drilled into me by breastfeeding advocates and their literature was that you have to plan on breastfeeding, 100%. You have to be completely determined. Well ... maybe that works for other people. For me, it meant that when I gave that first bottle, I felt like a failure, and why did it even matter what I did from that point? I'd already failed. It's like trying to diet by forbidding yourself any sweets at all, and then you cave in and eat one bowl of ice cream and you just give up the diet altogether.

This is why, if I could recommend one book to new mothers, it would be "So That's What They're For!" That is the only breastfeeding book with a message that worked for me - keep trying. Even if you're not sure you can keep doing it, just try to make it for the first few weeks. Then see if you can make it another day. THAT is how to keep women breastfeeding.

This is such a great post!! This is almost exactly how I felt when things weren't working. Once I started giving formula I felt like it was all over. And I hated myself for it.

Student Mama you made some excellent points, and I really like your post where you break down the reasons that women may find BFing difficult/would rather FF.
Especially the bad advice from docs etc...I have heard so many stories of Docs ruining a BFing relationship before it even starts...like "The baby has jaundice...Give him/her Formula"

Someone else pointed out earlier on this thread that things might change if Docs could be held liable for sabotaging BFing relationships. Imagine being able to sue for the cost of formula etc...

I don;t know if that would work, but it sounds like an interesting idea.


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## DQMama (Mar 21, 2006)

I see that this is an old thread but thought I'd share my sister's story as quickly as possible. She is a single mother and I told her BF would be easier because she wouldn't have to get up in the middle of the night and leave the baby crying while she made bottles. None of her friends (and apparently none of the nurses in the hospital where she delivered and I was her support person) ever successfully BF. There is one LC in the whole town and she only works M-F 9-5. No LLL group either.

Long story short, baby was tongue-tied (not clipped til the 6th day at which point her nipples were obliterated from improper latch), she has almost completely flat nipples and gigantic breasts, and she had a c-section with an incision that got infected. She also got mastitis.

Not exactly a situation set up to facilitate easy BF. She pumped and bottle fed exclusively for the first 3 wks or so. She transitioned him to a nipple shield and now is exclusively BF. It was a long, horrible road, and has it been easier than FF? Well, it wasn't then, but it will be now. And even she agrees it was worth it.

I believe that 99% of people can BF WITH the right support. You need someone cheering you on every step of the way and not judging you. You need information. You need resources. No it is not easier in the beginning than FF for everyone. In the long run I think it probably is for many. I hope this story helped someone who is going through similar circumstances. My sister is my hero!


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## wannabe (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
While you're in the driver's seat and they're in the back seat? How?







:

No, you're next to them, just as you have to be when giving a bottle in the carseat.


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## Sharlla (Jul 14, 2005)

YES YES YES it's easier. I did both and I KNOW it is.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aiea* 
How is it unsafe? I am always seat-belted and the carseat is strapped in as it should be.

I am not an expert, but I know that infant carseats are designed to flip up and form a protective cocoon around the baby in the event of an accident. If you are leaning on the seat to breastfeed the baby, you're in the way of that, and the seat can't function as it's supposed to.

I don't know the details of what happens in a wreck if you're breastfeeding, but I know that it's something you should not try if you want to be safe.


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## treqi (Dec 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
Which helps even less, since you don't have the baby there to actually try what you're reading about.

Are you serious?







: So it doesn't help to PREPARE to get your hands on every bit of information out there and ask otheres of their BFing experience...... Hell I had an unplanned C-Section and was in such a horrible emotional state I had just failed at my birth and many here say that is a less than ideal situation to inatiate a BF relationship....

Quote:

I'll give you one example. Some people have said that if a woman can't or won't breastfeed, she shouldn't have children. How cruel is that?
Know what 200 years ago that would have been true..... if you had a baby and were unsucessful at bfing and no one aroud you had milk your babe might not have survived......


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
I am not an expert, but I know that infant carseats are designed to flip up and form a protective cocoon around the baby in the event of an accident. If you are leaning on the seat to breastfeed the baby, you're in the way of that, and the seat can't function as it's supposed to.

I don't know the details of what happens in a wreck if you're breastfeeding, but I know that it's something you should not try if you want to be safe.

I wish I could remember where I read this, but what I read was that the "cocoon" effect was not exactly by design. It was something that happened, and freaked people out when it did happen (baby getting flung towards rear seat back), and then they realized it protected baby and then it was called cocooning and said it was by design.

Other countries actually tether their infant seats specifically to stop this cocoon effect. So, it is possible for a seat to be safe(r) held down (by a tether) and NOT cocoon.

But, I don't know if what I read was true or not. And I don't know how this translates to the crash effect of mom breastfeeding baby in infant seat.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *treqi* 
Are you serious?







: So it doesn't help to PREPARE to get your hands on every bit of information out there and ask otheres of their BFing experience......

Oh, sure, it's better than nothing. But it really doesn't compare to actual experience and in-person advice.


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## VanessaS (May 22, 2007)

Quote:

My DH enjoyed feeding DS and enjoyed being able to help out in the middle of the night after so many months of watching me do it all on my own. Every man is different...I know lots of guys who really do WANT to help out.
Well, my DH usually does help out a lot. But he needs his sleep more than I do since he can't just take a nap while the kids do.
He helps out with non-bf stuff like giving Becky some applesauce, washing the dishes, vacuuming, going grocery shopping, etc. Also, he watches the kids on Saturday morning so that I can sleep in (or just daydream in bed).

My DH and I found that giving bottles isn't actually that much fun (and it's not a hormone-rush like BF is, for sure!) so he isn't that keen on it.

Quote:

I believe that 99% of people can BF WITH the right support. You need someone cheering you on every step of the way and not judging you. You need information. You need resources.
Absolutely! My DH and midwife were fantastic. I remember calling the midwife at 7 pm about four days after giving birth. My DS was screaming his head off hysterically in the background. I was so upset and was about to send my DH to buy some formula but he convinced me to call her beforehand. I cried into the phone, "I keep feeding him but he just screams and screams and screams. I think he's starving to death!" She just laughed and was like, "If he was starving he wouldn't have the energy to scream for hours every night. He's fine. If he starts acting weak or lethargic, call me again." She was right. It turned out to be his personality. He still throws tantrums every night before bedtime. And when my milk finally came in it just POURED.

Some of the things that are supposedly "easier" about FF I actually find rather strange. My cousin asked me once how much my son was eating. I said, "I don't know. Enough." She was totally shocked that I didn't know how much he was eating. She suggested I at least weigh him before and after every meal and keep a journal. She asked how I knew he was finished eating and I said, "He lets go and seems content." That just blew her mind!







:


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *VanessaS* 
Some of the things that are supposedly "easier" about FF I actually find rather strange. My cousin asked me once how much my son was eating. I said, "I don't know. Enough." She was totally shocked that I didn't know how much he was eating. She suggested I at least weigh him before and after every meal and keep a journal. She asked how I knew he was finished eating and I said, "He lets go and seems content." That just blew her mind!







:

OK, that's just weird. When my son was bottlefed, I never kept track of what he was eating anymore than I did with breastfeeding. It was just, "oh, hey, he's rooting, mix up a bottle for him." Just because you're using bottles is no reason to keep a schedule!


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## sanguine_speed (May 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
OK, that's just weird. When my son was bottlefed, I never kept track of what he was eating anymore than I did with breastfeeding. It was just, "oh, hey, he's rooting, mix up a bottle for him." Just because you're using bottles is no reason to keep a schedule!

Here too. We supplement with formula. He eats until he is full. That doesn't mean the bottle is necessarily empty. I have no idea how much he eats either.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
OK, that's just weird. When my son was bottlefed, I never kept track of what he was eating anymore than I did with breastfeeding. It was just, "oh, hey, he's rooting, mix up a bottle for him." Just because you're using bottles is no reason to keep a schedule!

Ditto. It always kills me when my WIC forms ask how many bottles he has each day. The last time, I seriously had to keep a running total of the ounces he ate from midnight to midnight just to have any idea. I just want to hold him up and be like, "Does he LOOK underfed to you?!"


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

I used to estimate how much we were supplementing by checking how long the can of formula lasted, and then dividing the number of ounces it makes by the days.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

On forms I just use math, the docs asked me how much my bf baby ate, I'm like "I dont' know" when he's hungry. Well is that every 3 hours, every 4, what? Well, yes, sometimes 3, sometimes 4, sometimes 30 minutes, sometimes 5 hours or more at night...

Bottle math is easy -- 4oz every 4 hours = 24 oz. It gives them a good enough answer for a baby and then more for an older baby, then about this or less for a baby eating solids.


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## aprilv (Aug 31, 2007)

i think that breastfeeding makes it easier for me to feed my son than all the prep work involved with formula. i also think it's made mothering easier because i can see that i am capable of giving him everything he needs which makes me feel so proud and confident.
i do see how breastfeeding makes his feeding all on me, so i can understand how people would see formula as being easier in that respect. it's easier to hand the baby off to someone else, or prop up their bottle and go do something else BUT that is not best for the baby either. this is why to me breastfeeding is so much more than just feeding, it's mothering, nurturing, bonding. my baby knows i am always there for him because i have always been.
i don't think that the criteria for evaluating parenting choices should be what's 'easier'. being a good parent is hard. it means giving things up sometimes (like time away from your baby to do your own thing), but i think knowing i am parenting with all of my heart and doing what i know is best for my baby.
bottom line, i think breastfeeding is easier if than formula feeding if you plan on administering every bottle and cleaning it up. if you're passing your baby off to someone else to feed/care for while you go out to have fun, then i can understand saying formula is easier.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aprilv* 
i also think it's made mothering easier because i can see that i am capable of giving him everything he needs which makes me feel so proud and confident.

This is exactly why those of us who find ourselves "needing" formula feel so inadequate and like failures. I truly feel like a failure "again" meaning I didn't get it right for my first and I screwed up w my 4th. I feel I am too blame for my lack of supply issues, even though my low prolactin levels are genuinely hormone related as is my hypothyroidism which is likely a good reason for poor milk supply, medically I'm a mess after 4 children and this 4th really depleted my body of too much.

BTW -WELCOME, you sure did pick a hot button topic for your first post. And I am so very happy to see a mom bfing with ease and making those nurturing bonds and connections. We are not all so fortunate in the bfing dept.


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## studentmama (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
Ditto. It always kills me when my WIC forms ask how many bottles he has each day. The last time, I seriously had to keep a running total of the ounces he ate from midnight to midnight just to have any idea. I just want to hold him up and be like, "Does he LOOK underfed to you?!"

The reason they are asking is actually two-fold, they do want to make sure baby is getting enough, but they also want to make sure baby is not getting overfed(this relates only to ff babbies). There is a problem where babies are eating too much formula and the nutrition counselor teaches the parents how to do paced feeding. This relates to ff babies only. What happens is that the nipple is so hard, that it stimulates the sucking relex in the baby so they may overeat even if they are full.


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## AnalogWife (Sep 8, 2007)

Sleep nursing is where it is AT.


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## aprilv (Aug 31, 2007)

Electra375 said:


> This is exactly why those of us who find ourselves "needing" formula feel so inadequate and like failures.
> 
> i'm so sorry if what i said made you feel bad! truly, no one who loves their baby and is trying their best (as we all are!) should ever feel like a failure! i think these feelings are common because we put so much pressure on ourselves to get everything right.
> my comment came from my experience during first few months of mothering. i had severe baby blues and breastfeeding was the only thing that i felt gave me confidence and made things 'easier' for me.
> i will be more careful with how i word things.


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## kalynnsmom (Dec 3, 2004)

I haven't read all the pages of replies, so I'll just answer the original question.

For me, I have twins and BF'ing is SOOOO much easier. I had to give bottles-formula and pumping. I had lots of problems getting one of the boys to latch, we had a rocky start. So, the first few months were probably more difficult than FF'ing. But once we got things settled, BF'ing was a lot easier then FF'ing.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Oh, no, I think you make a valid point and come from a great place being a new mom and having the satisfaction. It is just that same feeling of "yes, I've made it work" that brings joy also is the main cause of those negative feelings when it does not work out as planned.


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## MusicMom29 (Jul 10, 2007)

I'm afraid I haven't read this whole thread yet, but by page 4 I wanted to say thanks to all that say BF is easier. I've lately been admiring how easy it seems for other moms to just pop a bottle in their baby's mouth out in public, and my nipples are getting a new kind of sore from my DS's new little teeth. I am proud to have established breastfeeding, and even though he is Mr. Distractability and it is hard sometimes, thanks for reminding me why we do all this.

Oh, and I have no idea about ff, I think that is one thing that has kept me from actually trying it - I just don't want to learn a whole new system!


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

BFing is certainly easier when it comes easy and cheaper when you don't need a pump, Domperidone, fenugreek, teas, etc just to keep going...

I just placed my first order on-line for formula. I haven't needed to buy any in large quantity until now since I was supplying mostly bm and fortifying. The time has come where I'm tapped out of bm.

The LOs specialty formula is roughly $9 per day. At least he is 8 plus months old and we won't hopefully have to keep him on this one. For now, yes, but I'm hoping he out grows this protein intolerance thing soon. Or at the very least tolerate something I can buy at the store.+


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

to you Electra375

I know this is hard.


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## PPK (Feb 15, 2007)

There is no clear cut answer to this question, as everyone's unique circumstances dictate what their experience will be. I have only EBF and do not plan to give formula, but for us it certainly wasn't cheap or easy in the beginning. DS was severely tongue-tied and couldn't latch on well without causing me to scream in pain every time. This meant spending quite a bit out-of-pocket for a procedure that caused him pain within his first week of being on the planet.

I also had to buy a pump, not cheap, and will have to continue to buy storage bags, etc.. just trying to make a point that bf isn't always free or easy.

Its impossible for me to speculate wheather or not ff would've been easier for us, but I don't care to make assumptions, so I won't.

I think its presumptuous for me to try to assume either is universally always going to be easier/harder.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

I formula fed my first, breastfed my second. I don't know how many times I fell asleep trying to hold that damned bottle in the right position at night. I'd fall asleep and the bottle would slip out of her mouth and she'd scream. Repeat at least 4 times per night time feeding. Also, she'd scream her fool head off waiting for me to warm that bottle up. By the time the bottle was sufficiently warm she was wide awake from all of the screaming and waiting (2 min is along time to a hungry baby). She also smelled bad all of the time, bleck, like formula. Needing hands free to hold a bottle made it hard too. Washing bottles, nipples, etc. Running out of formula at inconvenient times. Taking several tries to find a formula that she could tollerate. Always having to take a diaper bag everywhere....as opposed to shoving a diaper and a ziplock with a wet washcloth in my purse.

Then with my son, I just rolled over and stuck it in his mouth when he started to stir. No crying necessary. No diaperbag necessary for short outtings, just a diaper and a washcloth in my purse. The baby never had to scream to eat. It was ready as soon as he was.

The first 2 weeks were tough, but after that breastfeeding was much easier than formula feeding.


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## moonfirefaery (Jul 21, 2006)

I think in a normal situation it is easier, but complications and obstacles or even a child's personality can make it difficult. For me, whipping it out and latching the baby on is much simpler than measuring formula, adding a certain amount of water, screwing on a lid, shaking, feeding baby, then washing the bottle and putting it away. Likewise it's easier in public to just breastfeed than to make a bottle, pack the baby bag with plenty, wash the bottles after use... At night, no fetching & making bottles, then sitting up and holding the bottle, and laying baby back down. I can just lay on my side, give baby the boob, and drift back to sleep.

I can see though how formula feeding could be easier for someone having problems breastfeeding, for a working mother or someone who must be frequently seperated from a child, or for someone with a baby that wants to nurse ALL the time. I think breastfeeding is worth it even when it's a hassle, but I can understand how some situations would make formula feeding easier.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Myth Exposed - Formula Powders do not instantly disolve for feeding, especially Similac.
I use Elecare, it does not disolve. I make a batch up ahead of time and pour into bottles from the fridge.
I used a long time ago Isomil and I recall the same thing, it was supper annoying.
I've used and hope to switch over to Alimentum and it is the same, if not worse than Elecare, clumps that do not disovle. I'll likely just buy the liquid, more expensive, less "doing" stuff.

My breast tingle, even Raynards shooting pains, not enough to feed baby, a few drops are left.


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

omg I cant believe I just read this entire thread!

When I was pregnant I had to work long grueling hours on my feet. I was so tired by the time I got home I had the energy to read a little. I read What to Expect and the Girlfriends Guide to Pregnancy (I know I know, I had no MDC then and these were given to me). I was signed up to take the BF class at the hospital, and then my son was born 4 weeks early. He was jaundiced but the hospital said it wasnt a big deal and just take him home. They said we were BF great! YAY!

Well he would nurse for 45 min on each side. When a friend came to visit she said that my son looked horrible and to take him to the doctor immediately. Well his jaundice was worse and he was actually too weak to eat, had lost a ton of weight, and had to be rehospitalized. They never gave me an option to feed him formula, they just did it. I pumped and they mixed it with the formula. After we left the hospital I went back to BF without formula. Two weeks later he'd lost more weight, I kept asking his ped and my OB for help, the OB said he knew nothing about BF. The ped said he'd call CPS if I didnt supplement since my baby was starving. I took their formula but still only BF. After losing weight again, I broke down and gave him the formula. He gained 28 oz in one week. He eventually refused my breast, and at 3 months he was only FF. FINALLY a friend mentioned LLL. No, I'd never heard of them. The lactation consultants in the hospital didnt mention them, and wouldnt help me unless I went in. I couldnt because I gave birth in another city and had no way to get there. I called LLL and they helped me attempt relactation. Twice. It didnt work. I seriously contemplated suicide. I was reading so much stuff about how I shouldnt be allowed to have my son because I was too lazy to BF, about how I was dumb for not preparing, how selfish I was.

The HARDEST thing for me about FF was when a woman stopped me in Target to say "you know, babies who are FF die of SIDS more often and are sick more often, maybe you should have thought of that before you made your choice", when I was buying formula. The hardest thing for me was when I was unable to make anymore milk and had nothing to mix with the formula, watching my son double up in pain after he ate every meal, screaming because his tummy hurt. Until we went thru a million different formulas to find one that made him not scream. Or how rude other mothers are to me when they find out he's FF. How every time DS gets sick (not very often) my MIL brings up how its probably because I gave up and fed him formula. The disappointment and guilt and judgment are the hardest things about FF.

I'm so scared with this baby something will happen and I'll fail this time too, I'm trying to be more prepared, but I'm still really scared. BF was so hard for us that its hard to say which was easiest, but under normal circumstances I think BF would be far easier.


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## crazydiamond (May 31, 2005)

Aimee


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Aimee** 

The HARDEST thing for me about FF was when a woman stopped me in Target to say "you know, babies who are FF die of SIDS more often and are sick more often, maybe you should have thought of that before you made your choice", when I was buying formula.

OMG women need to stay out of other women's business!!! Seriously... I don't think I'd have the quick response time to tell that woman off, but would have wished I said something good...

Don't worry, you know more know, you have more resources now, my first as bf and ff and bfing stopped at 11 weeks. I've been there. I went to a private practice IBCLC when I was pregnant with my 2nd child. I put someone in my corner ahead of time and I'm so glad I did. I could call her anytime and she knew exactly what to say to 1) calm me down and 2) encourage me with wise advice.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

This probably isn't the right place for this, but the entire time I've read this thread, two thoughts have been running thru my mind.

1.) Why is it, when I started thinking about bfing my last son, but was unsure about how long I was comfortable doing so, everyone on here said, "Don't worry about committing to two years right away. Start with three months. If you don't want to do it any more after that, then stop. If you're okay with it still, continue to do it for another three months. Any amount of time that you bf is better than none."

But then this entire thread and others I've seen do nothing but bash mothers who don't bf "long enough."

Why? Isn't this a double standard, to say nothing of hypocritical?

2.) Why is it, when a bfing mom can do something else at same time as nursing, it's b/c bfing is "so easy," but when I ffing mom says she can hold a baby and the bottle w/ one hand and do something else with the other, it's b/c she's ignoring her child, doesn't want to bond, and is too lazy to give 100% attention to her child?

Okay. End of rant.

I just with the bfing community on here was a little more understanding and compassionate, and a little less hypocritical and "my way or the highway."


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## *Aimee* (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375* 
Don't worry, you know more know, you have more resources now, my first as bf and ff and bfing stopped at 11 weeks. I've been there. I went to a private practice IBCLC when I was pregnant with my 2nd child. I put someone in my corner ahead of time and I'm so glad I did. I could call her anytime and she knew exactly what to say to 1) calm me down and 2) encourage me with wise advice.

Thank you! thats exactly what I want to hear.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
But then this entire thread and others I've seen do nothing but bash mothers who don't bf "long enough."

Could you quote where in this thread mothers are being "bashed" for not breastfeeding long enough? I must have missed it. I answered this thread with my honest opinion that breastfeeding is easier than formula feeding (I've done both)--I don't see how you can characterize this "entire thread" that way.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
Could you quote where in this thread mothers are being "bashed" for not breastfeeding long enough? I must have missed it. I answered this thread with my honest opinion that breastfeeding is easier than formula feeding (I've done both)--I don't see how you can characterize this "entire thread" that way.

I will go thru the thread and look (since it's 20 pages, give me some time!).

I did not intend to characterize the thread on the whole as a bashing thread. But there were several posts in which mothers were bashed for not bfing "long enough."


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
I did not intend to characterize the thread on the whole as a bashing thread. But there were several posts in which mothers were bashed for not bfing "long enough."

There were also several posts where it was said that ff was only "easier" because you got to hand the baby off to other people, implying that people who think it's easier are just not sufficiently attached to their babies.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pookel* 
There were also several posts where it was said that ff was only "easier" because you got to hand the baby off to other people, implying that people who think it's easier are just not sufficiently attached to their babies.

Actually, being able to have others feed your baby is something that makes ff easier.









I think sometimes people see judgment where none is intended.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup* 
I think sometimes people see judgment where none is intended.

And sometimes the judgment is intended:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *courtenay_e* 
Why do most moms in our society think that bottle feeding is easier? What I've found from informal surveying is that it's because basically it means that you can leave your child with the bottle with whomever you'd like. With a breastfed baby, you're "forced" to bring the baby with you, or come back to feed the baby when the BABY wants, NOT when the mother wants. And in our selfish, self centered society, leaving a baby with grandma to go do whatever is soooo much better than breastfeeding, even if it means all the hassle of bottle making, cleaning, etc.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

From a Judgment stance --
Please don't look at every bottle and think FF, lazy mom, selfish mom, or whatever.
I know personally a mom w a baby who will not nurse after traumatic birth, she pumps for this baby. Her bottles are bm.
I personally have had bm in bottles fortified w/formula for more calories for my FTT baby and now due to circumstances beyond my control my baby at 8 mo old is on prescription formula.
The 2 of us might be the rarity, but really, you do not know by looking at a mom if she is providing bm in a bottle, has a medically needy child, or has had breast reduction surgery and can't produce milk, or a mom who is undergoing chemo therapy or other medically dangerous for baby thing --

you just don't know and I have to think HOW DARE ANYONE JUDGE ANOTHER - let alone without knowing them.


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## tanya1976 (Apr 12, 2007)

I formula fed my first son and I'm exclusively BFing my second one. I can tell you wholeheartedly how much easier BFing is. I don't miss the bottle sterilizing/cleaning, the stained clothes, the waking up in the middle of the night for bottle preparation, the constipation (or the pain of looking at my son struggle with it), the running to the store for some formula, etc, etc.,

Go ahead and convince yourself otherwise. But, it's just not easier.


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## OldFashionedGirl (Mar 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tanya1976* 
I formula fed my first son and I'm exclusively BFing my second one. I can tell you wholeheartedly how much easier BFing is. I don't miss the bottle sterilizing/cleaning, the stained clothes, the waking up in the middle of the night for bottle preparation, the constipation (or the pain of looking at my son struggle with it), the running to the store for some formula, etc, etc.,

*Go ahead and convince yourself otherwise. But, it's just not easier*.

For you it is. But several on here have said it was not for them.

Saying that FF is easier is not saying it's better.


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## tanya1976 (Apr 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OldFashionedGirl* 
For you it is. But several on here have said it was not for them.

Saying that FF is easier is not saying it's better.

Well, yeah. But, I'm considering the fact that I've done both and when comparing the two, BFing came out as both easier and better. Sure, FF is easier for some (e.g. those who tried bfing, but couldn't do it b/c of medical reasons), but other than that, I can't be convinced that FFing is easier.

I was simply responding to one post I read that said that many bfing moms only say bfing is easier b/c they don't know FFing. Well, I did and I just put in my two cents.


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## sanguine_speed (May 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by **Aimee** 
The HARDEST thing for me about FF was when a woman stopped me in Target to say "you know, babies who are FF die of SIDS more often and are sick more often, maybe you should have thought of that before you made your choice", when I was buying formula.

That's horrible. I worry about someone saying this to me too. Little do they know.







:


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## sdm1024 (Sep 4, 2006)

I've always felt that it was easier because my boobs are attached, always with me. I could leave the house with a diaper and wipes that fit in my purse, no need to carry a big bag.

The time actually spent nursing was a repreive from life...it forced me and the baby to stop, slow down and enjoy the moment.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sdm1024* 
I've always felt that it was easier because my boobs are attached, always with me. I could leave the house with a diaper and wipes that fit in my purse, no need to carry a big bag.

*The time actually spent nursing was a repreive from life...it forced me and the baby to stop, slow down and enjoy the moment*.

I really enjoyed this about nursing my son. Especially our evening bedtime routine, the end of the day would just melt away the stress.


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## 93085 (Oct 11, 2007)

I have only read the OP, so forgive if I repeat...

I think it's different for different people. My nine month old has always been a speed-nurser (well, after the first month or so), so for her, I've spent WAY less time breastfeeding her than I would have formula-feeding her. It's also been easier to parent both kids simultaneously while BF than it would formula-feeding--because I don't have to get up and leave anyone while I mix or warm or wash a bottle. I can just whip it out and turn pages of a picture book with my free hand. And I can't even imagine how much more complicated going places with the kids would be if I had to worry about lugging formula along. I was reluctant enough to introduce solids because THEY'RE such a pain!







Heck, just not having to go to the store to BUY formula, that ALONE, is a gigantic "convenience" bonus in favor of breastfeeding.

That said, BFing certainly can have its inconveniences, especially if you are separated from baby. I work and I often have evening events, and I must tell you it is a collosal pain in the rear to orchestrate the supply of fresh and frozen breastmilk and to try to figure out how and where to pump if I'm anywhere other than my own desk in my own office. But for ME, those inconveniences were not as great as the formula inconveniences. Add to that the fact that breastmilk is FREE and indubitably the best thing for baby's health--and also that I had no insurmountable problems establishing a good nursing relationship with either child--and it was a no-brainer for me. Breastmilk: it's the bargain of all time.


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## pookel (May 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tanya1976* 
Go ahead and convince yourself otherwise. But, it's just not easier.

Did your formula experience involve scabbed and bleeding nipples, a baby who was still below his birthweight at his 2-week checkup, feedings every 90 minutes around the clock, and sleep deprivation so bad you were hallucinating?

Yeah, neither did mine.


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## normajean (Oct 21, 2003)

I think that if breastfeeding is going well, it is easier. Spoken by someone for whom breastfeeding did not work. My baby had a congenital enzyme deficiency that is extremely rare and would have died on my breastmilk. To this day we are working with that in his diet. It was anightmare, and the stress, projectile vomiting, screaming, and pain he was in was not worth it. Formula feeding the prescription formula was much much easier.

I'd much rather wash bottles and deal with the occasional curdled one you find under the couch than hear my baby screaming in pain or watching his weight drop off the charts. That was my experience.

I am very happy for women who are able to breastfeed without problems, and my heart goes out to women who are learning to breastfeed and are told it's easy. For most women it isn't easy, especially at first even with help, even with lactation consultants & counselors, even with a supportive DH.

I think probably more people would continue breastfeeding if others around them would be aware of how difficult it can be, and be supportive instead of insisting its easy and more convenient.

I think it is easier and more convenient if you have a 4 month old that knows what he/she is doing, and you have plenty of milk. Breastfeeding a newborn, especially your first newborn is not easy at all.

(I didn't read this entire thread, and probably won't be back to it, so I won't be reading any followup replies. I'm sure there are many who won't agree with my thoughts on this, but if you have something to say to me specifically, please PM me. Thanks!)


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## Veronicasarah (Oct 3, 2007)

I can remember doing my registry for my first child and, what I call, the call of nipples was so intimidating. Choosing just the right one for a possibly selective child was nerve racking. I choose to BF though and I new I had just the right nipples for that! My second needed a pacifier though to keep her satified, and finding the right one for that was not an easy task. Overall I think BF is less intimidating, I don't have to worry about my milk sitting out and spoiling (unless you pump), and I can feed my second child with a free hand to read to my first born!


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## 93085 (Oct 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *normajean* 
I think probably more people would continue breastfeeding if others around them would be aware of how difficult it can be, and be supportive instead of insisting its easy and more convenient.

I see what you're saying, but on the other hand it's important not to psych people out ahead of time. There are those who would never try to BF at all if all they heard was how difficult it can be.

Quote:

I think it is easier and more convenient if you have a 4 month old that knows what he/she is doing, and you have plenty of milk.
Absolutely. No question. Breastfeeding is easy once you get over the hump. I think there is hardly a mom out there who hasn't had at least a moment of difficulty, a moment of thinking, "What if I can't do this?" But in my experience that is true of almost every aspect of parenting, not just breastfeeding.


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## Rainbowbird (Jul 26, 2004)

I think when BF goes well, it is probably the easiest. Certainly the cheapest!

I had to FF but I did not find it hard at all, possibly because BF was such a failure for me. Bottles go into the dishwasher; formula mixed in a batch daily takes about 1 min. It really is nothing to pour a bottle and baby is done in a few minutes. Our pediatrician said we could stop boiling water at 3 mos. of age, so at that point we could use tepid water from the tap to make a bottle.

When we traveled, I carried bottles of water along with premeasured formula in those little travel-thingies made for powder. Again, no problem. I was already carrying snacks for myself and my toddler. So no added inconvenience there.

Of course, that doesn't make it better by any stretch. But you already know that.


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## Ish'smom (May 16, 2007)

I find it appalling that our cultures perception of BF versus FF is that FF is easier and just about as good. If not for that perception I feel many more women would BF. If Woman had the idea that they could get help and support and that it really is worth the initial trouble.

I am a bit sensitive about this right now, because I have a close friend who chose to FF with her second baby because with her first she had no support in the hospital when she tried and she was afraid that she was starving her baby. This time around I believe she was afraid of the same disaster and felt ff would be easier especially because her husband takes care of the babies and she works. Just before her baby was born she explained that she felt that her babe would be better off drinking formula than having a stressed out mother. I feel bad now because I didn't try to convince her to BF for various reasons and I feel she is missing out on a special closeness that I have with my DS. Her baby wont let her feed her or rock her to sleep now because she is used to the father doing those things.

Based on watching my friends FF for the past 8 months while BFing my DS I would say BF is way easier even if we only compare whether or not a baby has to cry hungrily waiting for their food.


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## Steady101 (Jun 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *goodearthmama* 
I don't see how preparing anything and then washing it afterwards, etc. is easier than Simply putting a hungry baby to your breast instantly satifying him. I mean really, i can't see how that could even be considered not the simplest thing ever!

Also, I think I can stand the "sacrifice" of the extra 30 minutes it takes to feed and nourish my child with my milk that is made for him and sustains him and give him the BEST possible start in life.

In regards to night time, my LO is right beside me in bed and as soon as he stirs= Boom! Breast in mouth and we are both back to sleep in a few minutes. No Big Deal!

I don't need anything when I go anywhere besides a few dipes. Wow, I really just can't believe that anyone would think that ff could possibly be easier.
I mean, unless you have medical problems that prevent bf, I think maybe saying it is easier might justify for making excuses. Sorry, but that is my opinion.

Exactly.


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## molarmama (Dec 14, 2006)

I think BF was more difficult at the beginning. Once we got the hang of things it was completely easy. Even with pumping while I was at work.


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## youngnhappymamma (Feb 3, 2002)

I think that bf is much easier, once you are in the swing of things which can be anywhere between a few days to a few months...but way worth sticking it out and muddling through, if that is what it takes. With my first child it took maybe a week or two before I was comfortable with latch and things...and probably not "smooth" for another couple of weeks...but it was still wonderful the whole time because of my commitment to it...not because I didn't have sore nipples or awkward fumblings at the breast or latch issues. I did not expect that it would be "easy"....I didn't even consider that aspect of feeding. I read a lot of material and don't feel that any of it misled me to think that bf would be "easy". I had to use formula for my 4th child because, like a pp, I got pregnant earlier than planned and lost my milk supply totally by the time she was 10 months old. We used formula until she was about 14 months old. It would've been sooooooo much easier to bf her!!! I still feel sad about it, but am very grateful for formula when there is a need for it. With my 5th baby, I had cracked and bleeding nipples for weeks because I allowed her to latch on incorrectly the first day or two. It was so painful I had to go into my room and close the door so that I could cry and not have my kids see me. It hurt. I knew it would get easier, however. And once my nipples healed, it was a breeze. Well worth the pain.

I think that ff is socially easier....for many reasons. One of which being moms not feeling comfortable nursing in public and therefore sequestering themselves in the ladies room or car or just not going out when they want, etc. Another reason being that bottles are the cultural norm which we are exposed to at every turn; on t.v., in magazines, in books, on baby shower invites; basically everywhere! Yet another reason it is socially easier is because we are pulled by the cultural norm of babies being "managed" and needing to be "independent" and able to "self soothe" and all that junk....and ff fits in with those expectations better than bf. Also, I agree with the pp who stated that one reason ff may be viewed as "easier" is because our culture *does* care about instant gratification and results...bf can and usually does take a few months (sometimes more) before it is smooth and really easy and it usually does require holding the baby longer than if you were giving him/her a bottle.

For the women on the thread who have felt judged: It sounds like most of you have used formula in the way it should be used...when you have to because bf is not an option. Please don't feel judged because so many of us are total lactavists and "push" breastfeeding....I think breastfeeding would be a way more positive experience for more women if more women were "out there" with their knowledge of and experience with breastfeeding! Since you know that you made an informed decision that was what was best for your particular situation, please don't let yourself feel judged by what are most likely good intentions by another mamma who is just trying to help.







I think most mom's don't want to make other moms feel badly....they just want to help.

There is a *BIG* lack of "push" and support for breastfeeding in our culture. Most women who do not choose to bf (for whatever reason) do so because of our culture, not because they are not "good" moms or whatever. I think all of us here at MDC know that and have stated that on many occasions. Even though not all moms here on MDC and elsewhere bf (for whatever reason) it's still okay and GOOD to push for and advocate for breastfeeding!!


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## Sunmommy (May 25, 2007)

I haven't read many of the replies but I think there is a difference between "easier" and more convenient. BF is definitely, IME, more convenient long-term than FF. I just stuck a few diapers/wipes in my bag and we were always good to go. However, BF is more difficult in terms of getting the hang of it in the beginning, less sleep, worrying about BF in public, etc.

That being said, I LOVED BF my son (BF for 3 years) and I am a little sad when I think back that I stopped BF my first (back advice from ped.+inexperienced momma) and it seems easy NOW...didn't seem easy the first 6 weeks or so.


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## LilMomma83 (Jan 20, 2007)

It depends!

I think breastfeeding is easier for SAHMs and in general it is quick and easy just to pop the boobie out. But, I think for WOHMs who have to pump it really gets dificult. I know one thing - formula is *EXPENSIVE!!!!!!!!!!*

eta- also I HATE even just washing a few botttles a week - I can't imagine if I was only using bottles...oh and formula is stinky


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

Quote:

I was simply responding to one post I read that said that many bfing moms only say bfing is easier b/c they don't know FFing. Well, I did and I just put in my two cents.
As did I. I have FF and breastfed and I think FF is easier. Not better. Easier. It is different for all women.


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## ruhbehka (Nov 5, 2006)

I think that, all things being equal (no problems with bf):

- in the early days, breastfeeding is harder, because it's more time-consuming, but it's easier, because you can use it to comfort a newborn more easily than a bottle or paci

- after 3 months (give or take a little), breastfeeding is MUCH easier in the daytime, because you can go anywhere, not pack much, not look for water fountains or bring a cooler, etc.

- at nighttime, formula feeding is hands-down easier. Because someone else can do it for you. 

Add pumping to the equation, and bf is much harder than FF. You do twice as much work and clean just as many bottles.

FWIW, when DS was younger and needed to eat at night, we had to FF in addition to BF at night (my supply is crappy). We had a simple routine; we never sterilized or washed bottles at night (hello, dishwasher?), we never went down to the kitchen or measured powder. We put several bottles with pre-measured water on the nightstand, had a container for pre-measured formula powder, and just dumped the powder in one quick motion into the water, capped, and shook. The "FFing is soooo much work" argument dates back to an era when moms were still told to sterilize bottles before using them, every time.

Now that DS is 18 mos, we rarely give bottles at night, and he just comfort nurses back to sleep. And dude, there are quite a few nights that I am awake for the fourth time, staring over at my slumbering DH, and missing the days when we took turns giving formula bottles at night!









Breastfeeding for me has been much harder, but also more satisfying.


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