# Christian Mamas - Tell me about the "wisdom stick"



## Venice Mamacita (Dec 24, 2003)

Has anyone ever heard of a Wisdom Stick as a "disclipline tool"? I've heard it discussed (in conjunction with Christian parenting videos) as something to gently whack your kid with (contradriction in terms if you ask me, but that's another post). I googled it but couldn't find anything and am really curious -- do you know what this is? How would you describe it? Where can a non-Christian get more info? TIA!


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## Kikwembe (Jan 19, 2007)

Re-read your post, and caught you intent the second time around.







I googled it, and couldn't find it, either. I'm happy it's not easily accessible to the unsuspecting Googler.


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

Oh, dear. If it's anything like The Rod, I would be horrified at the thought.

Was there a special reason you were looking for one, Venice Mamacita?


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## Xoe (Oct 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LilyGrace* 
Oh, dear. If it's anything like The Rod,.....

YIKES!!!!







:


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## Venice Mamacita (Dec 24, 2003)

Whoops, double-post, see below . . .


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## Venice Mamacita (Dec 24, 2003)

Hi all ~ So sorry, should have included more info at the outset -- I'm a shrink with a new patient who's the mom of a 2.5 y/o girl. She's also "very Christian" (her words) and her husband is a pastor. She mentioned these Christian videos and the "wisdom stick" at our first session this week. She described it as "sort of like a beanie baby thing" -- ? -- that she uses to correct her daughter when she doesn't listen. Anyway, as a GD mom I was completely horrified (there's absolutely no hitting at our house), but as a therapist I have to curb my personal beliefs to a certain extent.

I plan to ask more about this "discipline method" at our next meeting, but want to be armed with some facts about what a "wisdom stick" actually is. In my state, it's considered abuse to strike a child with an object, but I need more info. Again, to me, the idea of hitting a 2.5 y/o -- with or without an object -- is completely repulsive. But this mother is desperate for help and support, and I'd rather she stay in therapy and be open to my GD suggestions than alienate her entirely in our second session. On the other hand, if a child abuse report is warranted, I need to do that ASAP.

It's a tough situation, and I'm having no luck finding out anything about this stick, so I truly appreciate any information you can share . . . .


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## AllisonK (Feb 18, 2005)

I am Christian, was raised Christian, and have no idea what you are talking about. Does not sound fun though.


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## heidirk (Oct 19, 2007)

Christian mama







: here, never heard of it either.


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## Swirly (May 20, 2006)

No clue, but I might look into the Pearls to see if it is their thing....


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## famousmockngbrd (Feb 7, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heidirk* 
Christian mama







: here, never heard of it either.

Heidi, being Christian is no reason to hide under a bag! Come out from under there!









I'm not specifically Christian but I assume it's similar to the Rod. "Wisdom Stick", indeed.







I'd be interested to hear how it's like a beanie baby. Is it stuffed?


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## Venice Mamacita (Dec 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *famousmockngbrd* 
Heidi, being Christian is no reason to hide under a bag! Come out from under there!









I'm not specifically Christian but I assume it's similar to the Rod. "Wisdom Stick", indeed.







I'd be interested to hear how it's like a beanie baby. Is it stuffed?

The impression she gave is that it's a kind of stick-shaped beanbag, I think . . . ? If I'd had any inclination it was The Rod I would've had to call CPS immediately -- that's definitely a child abuse report.

And I agree, Heidi, come on out from under that bag -- obviously, not all Christians believe in this wisdom stick thing or we'd have a lot more information handy!


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## gaialice (Jan 4, 2005)

Oh, my I found something in this article, but it is just ... revolting..... I hope this is not what you are looking for (you have to scroll to the very bottom of the page). I hope this mama finds some peace. It must be a hard decision for you to make Mamacita.


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## josh&davesmomme (Feb 24, 2006)

I'm a Christian and never heard of it


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Venice Mamacita* 
In my state, it's considered abuse to strike a child with an object, but I need more info.

I am curious, which state that is? I believe that corporal punishment (hitting with an implement) is legal for parents in every state in the US still. Is it age specific? 21 states still allow schools to use a wooden board to hit children even. (folks can check their local school district here: http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/

I had not heard of a law prohibiting parents from hitting children in the US, unless it is deemed "excessive", or related to fostering/adoption. I'd be interested to know. I'd like to read the specific law related. There have been long discussions here related to the "novelty" of California attempting to make hitting children illegal (including spanking with an open palm). I thought they were one of the first states to attempt to do so.

I am active with the NoSpank.org site. http://www.nospank.net/

Pat


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## Genesis (Jan 8, 2007)

I'm a Christian and have never heard of it. Every Christian I know practices gentle discipline.


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## heidirk (Oct 19, 2007)

Sometimes I do feel like I have to lurk on the GD forum, but it's nothing you all have said, my ideas are just very different sometimes.
But I love to read the discussions though, and get ideas.

I beleive corporal punishment is illegal in Colorado?


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## Abibigail (Jan 26, 2008)

I'm a Christian and I've never heard of anything like that at all. My parents, who are big believers in spanking as a disciplinary tool, did use other objects, but they always called them what they were; there was never a special name for them...

I'm going to get the book Grace Based Discipline, which, in case you haven't heard of it, is about GD from a Christian perspective. She may benefit from it.


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## Venice Mamacita (Dec 24, 2003)

Any information is helpful, thanks for the book suggestion!

In CA, it's an abuse report if a child is hit with an object or implement, above the shoulders, or has visible welts or bruises anywhere on the body. Emotional abuse is also reportable here.

A state representative is trying to get a spanking ban put on the ballot, but there's quite a lot of opposition. Corporal punishment in schools here hasn't been O.K. since the '80s, at least. I spent my elementary school years in central Florida, where kids were taken to the office for a whippin' regularly, and I was surprised to learn when I moved to CA in 1980 that kids weren't allowed to be spanked at school.

Anyway, it's Penal Code (P.C.) Sections 11164 - 11174.3, Pat. Hitting a child with an object or implement is considered cruel and inhuman corporal punishment.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

It sounds like something dh and I would joke about, but using one for real? Nope.

<--- conservative Christian who reads scripture literally (and can't find a scriptural basis for hitting kids)


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## Way Up North (Sep 15, 2007)

I suspect it is a 'tool' espoused by right wing conservative Christians (not all, obviously, but some groups) who read scripture literally, therefore feel the need for corporal punishment (although 'spare the rod and spoil the child' is NOT a biblical phrase!)~ I have heard people talk about such things on message boards, it is niggling in the back of my mind a group or author, not Ezzo, but if I think of it, I'll post.

As a liberal left wing Christian







I know it is not in our tool box!

L


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Venice Mamacita* 

Anyway, it's Penal Code (P.C.) Sections 11164 - 11174.3, Pat. Hitting a child with an object or implement is considered cruel and inhuman corporal punishment.


I read the code. It is long. I didn't see your interpretation. In fact, it appears to allow for injury by corporal punishment in schools in the event of quelling a disturbance unless resulting in a *traumatic* condition. I don't believe that hitting a child with an object or implement is reportable in California as abuse, unless there is injury.

My concern would be to remain an impartial resource of alternative discipline which is approachable and relevant to their Christian values. I highly recommend the Gentle Christian Mothers web site, articles, and book lists. There are many scriptures quoted about embracing children with loving discipline and Grace Based Discipline. http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...rystal/gbd.php
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...discipline.php

Pat


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## heidirk (Oct 19, 2007)

For a discussion of the word 'rod' go to www.aolff.com .
The author of Biblical discipline and founder of the site is also the founder of the gentlechritianmothers site.


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## Venice Mamacita (Dec 24, 2003)

Thanks again for all the resources! I really want to be able to point to some Christian GD resources for this family, so I very much appreciate your guidance.

Pat - the CA Board of Behavioral Sciences and Board of Psychology interprets the penal code for the profession, and it is absolutely a mandated child abuse report if I even suspect one of my patients is being (or has been) hit with anything other than an open hand, above the shoulders, or hard enough to leave a welt or bruise. Same applies if I suspect a parent engaging in this behavior. It's an ethical requirement for the profession as well. Having had to make several of these reports personally (not to mention the ones made by my staff) over the years, I can tell you that the LA County Department of Child & Family Services takes them very seriously. Last year one family in particular had all 4 children removed from the home because their mother wouldn't stop hitting them with a paddle-ball paddle -- no welts or bruises, but easily considered a traumatic condition.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Venice Mamacita* 
Last year one family in particular had all 4 children removed from the home because their mother wouldn't stop hitting them with a paddle-ball paddle -- no welts or bruises, but easily considered a traumatic condition.


See, I just don't agree with that. Schools throughout the US use thick wooden boards to hit children over 200,000 times each year (half of just a few years ago). I can not imagine that children could be removed from their parents for being hit with a paddle ball paddle. There are effective ways to discipline without physical punishment, that needs to be the focus, imo. How is removing children from their parents not a further imposition of emotional abuse? I would caution assumptions of what is considered abuse.

FTR, I too have immediately reported severe physical abuse of a child. However, I would hesitate to judge what is best for a child without being absolutely certain of significant trauma or risk of such. Again, my suggestion is that there are many ways to empower parents and children regarding safety and discipline without adversarial interventions by government. Individually, we must determine our "ethics", not some licensure board.

First, *do no harm*, includes not imposing suffering by our own choice to act. You may add to their "safety" (though perhaps not as much as you imagine), but perhaps also add to the child's suffering. And yes, I was the child, ping pong paddle, et al.

Pat


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## Venice Mamacita (Dec 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
First, *do no harm*, includes not imposing suffering by our own choice to act. You may add to their "safety" (though perhaps not as much as you imagine), but perhaps also add to the child's suffering. And yes, I was the child, ping pong paddle, et al.

Laws & ethics of my profession aside, I do -- both personally and professionally -- believe hitting children (all under age 8) with a paddle-ball paddle constitutes abuse -- physical, certainly, but far worse emotional. The mother in the family I mentioned had been warned repeatedly to stop, but wouldn't. Her choices landed her kids in foster care, not the system's. CA is a very family-unity-at-all costs kind of state, it takes an awful lot to have a child removed from the home, especially in LA County.

I don't think that my patient using a "wisdom stick" on her 2.5 y/o daughter constitutes abuse, however, which is why I posted here and requested information and resources. If you read my earlier posts then you know that *my goal is to support this mother, not gather information to be used against her when I turn her in to DCFS*.

Once more, I appreciate the suggestions from all who posted -- any others are welcome!


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## lula (Feb 26, 2003)

hmmm...I have no idea what a wisdom stick is, never heard of such a thing. (and I come from a background where spanking is VERY common.)

I also believe that hitting a child with an object of any kind is abusive behavior. I believe that even "just spanking" a child with one's hand is abusive. However, I do not think that taking children away from their parents because the parent refuses to stop hitting them with a ping-pong paddle is a good idea. I truly hope that there were other things involved in that decision because to me it does not sound like there were adequate attempts to keep the family together and truthfully after perusing CA case law I don't really think there was an exceptionally good argument for taking them away from the parents. (and yes I have some experience with legal issues in this area, law school, personal guardian ad litem experience, best friend who actually runs the entire department of child services in my county, nothing direct but enough word of mouth to have an opinion)

Also, speaking from the perspective of a person who was repeatedly spanked with wooden items as a child I would have been DEVASTATED if someone had taken me or my siblings away from my parents. I don't agree that they should have used spankings but I cannot imagine even surviving the emotional trauma that would have resulted in my being taken from them. (and here I actually do speak for my siblings because we have all discussed the issue after I told my family that I was not going to be using any physical punishment on my children)

I also think you are really using the word "choice" oddly here. The mother whose children were taken away did not choose to stop but have you ever considered why? Has there been a discussion as to if her children were rightly taken away considering the precedence in CA? What happens if the woman you are currently counseling sees the choice a little differently? For e.g. what if she believes that this sort of punishment is necessary because she truly believes that it is best for her children? what if her religion (in her opinion) dictates such behavior? What if her children love their mother and think she is a wonderful mom? This would have been my perspective of my spanking mother both as a child and even as an adult. I ask this because I think the complexities of the situation are being overlooked not because I believe that she should be hitting her kids.

I just can't believe that you actually claim CA is a family unity at all costs in light of the situation you outlined and frankly I think that more energy needs to be expended in checking the actual emotional well being of the children not just in light of your expectations. If I was the woman currently under your care I would be looking for someone who was a little more "big picture" and was willing to work with me. As someone who values therapy I find it disturbing that you can't just ask the woman more details about the situation.

ETA I read through again and saw that you do plan on asking her more about this...I think this is by far the best course of action. I think it also may make sense to point her to some GD resources that are Christian based.


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## LemonPie (Sep 18, 2006)

The closest thing I've heard of is the "rod" or "switch" the Pearls recommend:

Quote:

The rod we speak of is a plumbing supply line that can be bought at any hardware store or large department store. It is a slim, flexible, plastic tubing that supplies water to sinks, and toilets. Ask for "¼ inch supply line." They cost less than one dollar. I always give myself one swat before I swat the child to remind myself how much force to exert. It stings the skin without bruising or damaging tissue. It's a real attention-getter.
On another forum I visit, a mother repeatedly touted this method for her _one year old_ child. They'd named the rod "Mr Happy" and she talked about smiling happily while switching her child









I am by no means an expert, but it's been my experience that people who use this form of punishment are of the opinion that children are born evil and need to be trained out of it. They believe very, very small children are capable of willful disobedience. In the example I noted above, several other posters tried to help this woman recognize that her baby's actions were the result of curiousity and lack of impulse control, but she just refused to see it and threw Bible verse after Bible verse out.

I'm a Christian mama, for the record. But my thoughts on the above methods of punishment would be a severe UA violation, so I'll leave it at that.


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## LilyGrace (Jun 10, 2007)

So.....I was browsing through the GD forum this afternoon when my 8yo was sitting next to me. I saw him mouthing the words to the title of this thread, and we had this conversation:

DS _.....wisdom stick.._
Me _Do you know what a wisdom stick is?_
DS _A stick that's full of stuff to make you smart? I don't need one, I have lots of wisdom!_
Me _No..it's a stick some people use to hit their kids._
DS














_Yeah, right. You think you're funny, don't you?_
Me _Really, I promise you. They think it'll teach them how to behave. Look_ [click on The Rod link]
DS OH MY GOD! THAT'S JUST NOT RIGHT!


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## Venice Mamacita (Dec 24, 2003)

FWIW, the family I spoke of was not my case, it was the case of a colleague. I only mentioned it to illustrate that in California it is indeed considered abuse to hit a child with an object or instrument, not to say that I agree with the children being removed from the home. I'm not here to debate the standards of my profession or its interpretation of the child abuse reporting law (which, by the way, also applies to teachers, counselors, fire fighters and police officers, etc.).

I thank those of you who took the time to read the PPs and offer helpful suggestions. As I said, my goal here is to help and support this mother -- who is clearly struggling but doing the best she knows how -- not look for ways to judge and alienate her.

Any other Christian GD suggestions are welcome, but please do read the whole thread before posting.


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## L&IsMama (Jan 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
See, I just don't agree with that. Schools throughout the US use thick wooden boards to hit children over 200,000 times each year (half of just a few years ago). I can not imagine that children could be removed from their parents for being hit with a paddle ball paddle. There are effective ways to discipline without physical punishment, that needs to be the focus, imo. How is removing children from their parents not a further imposition of emotional abuse? I would caution assumptions of what is considered abuse.

FTR, I too have immediately reported severe physical abuse of a child. However, I would hesitate to judge what is best for a child without being absolutely certain of significant trauma or risk of such. Again, my suggestion is that there are many ways to empower parents and children regarding safety and discipline without adversarial interventions by government. Individually, we must determine our "ethics", not some licensure board.

First, *do no harm*, includes not imposing suffering by our own choice to act. You may add to their "safety" (though perhaps not as much as you imagine), but perhaps also add to the child's suffering. And yes, I was the child, ping pong paddle, et al.

Pat

This may be a first, but ITA with Pat!


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## L&IsMama (Jan 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tiger Lily* 

On another forum I visit, a mother repeatedly touted this method for her _one year old_ child. They'd named the rod "Mr Happy" and she talked about smiling happily while switching her child










OMG....


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
I read the code. It is long. I didn't see your interpretation. In fact, it appears to allow for injury by corporal punishment in schools in the event of quelling a disturbance unless resulting in a *traumatic* condition. I don't believe that hitting a child with an object or implement is reportable in California as abuse, unless there is injury.
....

Pat

That is correct. Hitting little ones with objects is currently legal in California so long as the hitting is "reasonable force" and does not result in a "traumatic condidion." AB 755 would make hitting with objects illegal but, of course, that proposed legislation has not passed.

I have heard people say before that hitting with implements is illegal in CA and I always wonder where they get that. I have practiced law in CA for 10 years (and have seen case after case after case where whippings with belts, sticks, rods, switches, etc. were deemed not to be abuse) and the law seems plenty clear to me -- hitting with objects in CA is A-OK.







:


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

This is an old post of mine. I hope that something in it helps to connect with the parent's underlying need and focus on creating alternate ways to meet that need. I call it *"The Toddler Rule": it is easier to let go of what you have in your hand (literally or figuratively) when something more desirable is available.* I trust that people don't want to hit or hurt their children. I focus on the *process* of problem solving together.

Other things to consider are tools to de-escalate in the heat of the moment. Having been *abused* as a child, I have had to learn how to center myself due to no constructive models of effective conflict resolution in my childhood. Parenting and anger management are a process of self-awareness and THEN self-control. Just like children, when we redirect them to *what TO DO*, rather than focus on what *not* to do, they have alternatives. This post explains some of the process of becoming self-aware of our emotions: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...3&postcount=49

Help her to Listen to her body. I had a counselor ask me to visualize where I felt the anger, watch it as it comes upon me. Where is it? What does it feel like? Heat? Tightness? Clenched teeth? Drawn fists? A huge inhalation of breath? Setting my jaw? Hands on my hips? My ears tingle. My chest feels constricted. I feel hot, etc.

*Observe.* That is the first step of any Scientific Method. Observe herself. Don't get caught up in the self-talk of 'oh god here I go again, I wish I could stop myself'. Watch. And when she can start to see the signs earlier and earlier...then she can change the story.

I start to feel my chest expand, I set my jaw and I KNOW: "I need to take a break. I am the Adult. I can control myself." And I walk to the kitchen sink and run a large glass of water (and the house can be falling down around me) and I drink the water and I "infuse" it with the "switch words": *"Be. Divine. Love. Together."* These are connecting words which help to 'switch the energy'. And sometimes I have to take some Rescue Remedy and Breathe. Breathe. Breathe. And then I can think more clearly. But, I had to trust that I could change the story from that which happens again and again and again and again...

Also, have her check the remedy finders (first 3 links) for selecting a Bach Flower for her particular situation:

http://www.ainsworths.com/remedy/default.aspx

http://www.naturallythinking.co.uk/p...dyfinder.shtml

http://www.essencesonline.com/qnr1-SelfEval.html

http://www.bachcentre.com/centre/remedies.htm

http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm

We use no punishments or rewards in our family. There are alternatives to meet everyone's needs. Identify her underlying needs: HALT (hungry, angry, lonely, tired) helps me to find what self-care issues I may be overlooking. And I have learned to ASK for help. Judgment doesn't help. Help doesn't judge.

The tools of NVC (Non-violent communication) also help as a template of voicing our needs. http://www.cnvc.org/motherin.htm Especially for those of us without effective communication tools in childhood. The book "The Explosive Child" is a wonderful tool for prioritizing discipline and safety issues. Perhaps, she'd be open to that. I trust that *power with* works.

Best wishes, Pat

Quote:

Here is an article *"What should I do when I see someone hitting their kid?"* http://www.nospank.net/stang.htm

I try to offer empathy for both parent and child, and in conversation suggest "a couple of books that really helped to create cooperation in our family were "Kids, Parents and Power Struggles" and "How To Talk So Kids Will Listen". Sometimes, just redirecting the adult to having an adult conversation changes the energy, because they no longer feel isolated and socially challenged by the child's behavior. Out of probably 20-25 times that I have initiated contact in a heated parental exchange, only once did I encounter an unwelcomed response. I just listened and was sad and cried later. But, I had spoken up for the child's experience, which I trust at least validated the child's feelings.

The unwelcome incident was when a man slapped a child (about 5-7 years old) across the face while standing in line at the CVS. I immediately spoke up and said "Please don't hit her. Hitting hurts." He declared that "as long as I don't leave a bruise, I can punish her as much as I want". I didn't know what to say further, I felt horrible for the child, but knew legally he was "right". I felt very intimidated by his stance and didn't challenge him. It was a very helpless feeling. (I was alone.) I sorta feel that I would have felt stronger if ds had been with me. Because I would have been concerned about his experience of witnessing this. *I* felt like a child being reprimanded, interestingly. With ds, I feel much more Mama Bear, I guess. I wish I had spoken about how I had felt as a child when I was punished, but I really felt mentally/emotionally threatened by his stature, voice and body language.

EVERYONE has *thanked me* for "helping" prior to this, when the family was obviously overwhelmed and feeling out of control, even those who had been threatening, or had just hit, their children in public. But, I listen to folks nearby, if I hear things escalating in a store, I can intervene. I've walked up to folks and "commiserated" and offered the "helpful book suggestions" on many occasions. I have a forte for intervening in these types of situations. I do it all the time. LOL It gets easier with practice and with no mal-intent.

My sense about the physical "discipline" that I experienced as a child, was that MY perception was validated (finally!) somewhere around 4th grade when an outside *Adult!* spoke up against hitting children. Prior to that time, my parent's opinion and voice were strongest in my mind about me being hit. So, the emotional manipulation of being told "you caused my anger", "you deserve to be punished", "it's your fault", etc lost some of its power because someone validated MY experience. I certainly am concerned that the subsequent physical assault by a parent may be worse if another adult intervenes publicly. But I believe the emotional abuse of a child being told you "deserve" to be hit, lasts longer than the physical impact.

So, I choose to speak up. My goal is to neutralize the anger, not confront it. And I wish to share tools when someone is open to it. I trust that parents mean well, but people do what they know. And sometimes they have never had models of effective communication and conflict resolution. We are all learning all the time. The book suggestions "Kids, Parents and Power Struggles" and "How To Talk So Kids Will Listen" are well received, although the titles belie their messages of gentle parenting.

The book "Peace Is Every Step" helped me to come to terms with my childhood experiences and place them in context of what my parents must have experienced as children themselves. Understanding leads to compassion. We can choose peace in every moment. But, it is a practice of awareness of the moment, rather than judging. For me, helping parents who are overwhelmed comes from a place of compassion, despite their behavior. It really is the same with children, focusing on the underlying need. I am just learning to help the parent get what s/he needs, AND the child.

I have found that the energy with which I meet folks impacts the message I send. But, when a child is hit, old wounds are re-opened and it IS hard to meet a hitting parent with compassion. And, sometimes, intervening when emotions are already high can push folks over the edge. Certainly, it is a difficult environment for everyone.

Another option is to express concern to the staff in a store about the parents hitting children. Not sure anything would happen, but some staff might well "take a stand" about hitting children. Involving the "authorities" in an institution/business is a suggested way of intervening in the article "What should I do when I see someone hitting their kid?" http://www.nospank.net/stang.htm

Just redirecting the parent to adult-mode, out of "parent/authority", seems to move their emotional energy toward more civil, ime.


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## heidirk (Oct 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tiger Lily* 

I am by no means an expert, but it's been my experience that people who use this form of punishment are of the opinion that children are born evil and need to be trained out of it. They believe very, very small children are capable of willful disobedience. In the example I noted above, several other posters tried to help this woman recognize that her baby's actions were the result of curiousity and lack of impulse control, but she just refused to see it and threw Bible verse after Bible verse out.


This is really the core of reaching a Christian Momma I beleive. Most of the verses used to support spanking are taken out of context and with no understanding of the original language. I grew up in a house where every misbehavior was beleived to be willful and deliberate, and I have seen that this is not so.

Give good info on toddler development, when they begin to reason and when they can begin to think ahead. Hopefully she'll be able to see that her DC's behavior is part of toddlerhood, and not sinful.

I'm sure you can reach her!


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## Genesis (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heidirk* 
This is really the core of reaching a Christian Momma I beleive.

Rather, it's the core of reaching an _abusive_ Christian mother who hits her children. I know a lot of Christians, and none of them hit their children. It's not the standard.


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## laoxinat (Sep 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Genesis* 
I know a lot of Christians, and none of them hit their children. It's not the standard.

ITA
A dear Christian friend of mine has a bumper sticker that reads "Who would Jesus spank?" LOL!! The rest of her bumper makes her feelings on this topic quite clear !


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## Venice Mamacita (Dec 24, 2003)

Thanks again to those who PM'd to give me a heads-up -- I now understand how easy it is to hijack a thread. Silly me.

If you'd like to discuss/argue the lawful/ethical standards of my profession, please do feel free to do the same (i.e. send a PM).

Meantime, if you have no helpful advice or input, I respectfully request you ignore this thread entirely and move on to the next.

One thing I knew I could count on at MDC was supportive, helpful mothers -- how a fellow mama asking for information could turn into this saddens me. If I wanted mainstream rhetoric, I'd have posted the request somewhere else.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

You might update your thread title to start "Please read post ## before replying: original title." Then point people to your clarification post where you attempt to rerail the thread. Also a "please read the entire thread!" disclaimer at the top of the first post generally helps prevent thread-jacking.

It does look like you're getting some helpful responses to how to connect with this woman and guide her towards other discipline methods, but I can see this topic going off course again with people just reading the first post and responding.


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## pearsonsmum (Oct 29, 2007)

I work in a daycare and there is a christian family that comes in there. The mother told me all about the whipping stick one day and I was absolutely horrifed. She advocates using it to "train" children even as young as 4 months! Thats the only time i have ever heard of it (until now) But honestly I would consider that child abuse and would probably try to help the mom to stop using it.

Hannah


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## WalkingByFaith (Dec 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Venice Mamacita* 
Hi all ~ So sorry, should have included more info at the outset -- I'm a shrink with a new patient who's the mom of a 2.5 y/o girl. She's also "very Christian" (her words) and her husband is a pastor. She mentioned these Christian videos and the "wisdom stick" at our first session this week. She described it as "sort of like a beanie baby thing" -- ? -- that she uses to correct her daughter when she doesn't listen. Anyway, as a GD mom I was completely horrified (there's absolutely no hitting at our house), but as a therapist I have to curb my personal beliefs to a certain extent.

I plan to ask more about this "discipline method" at our next meeting, but want to be armed with some facts about what a "wisdom stick" actually is. In my state, it's considered abuse to strike a child with an object, but I need more info. Again, to me, the idea of hitting a 2.5 y/o -- with or without an object -- is completely repulsive. But this mother is desperate for help and support, and I'd rather she stay in therapy and be open to my GD suggestions than alienate her entirely in our second session. On the other hand, if a child abuse report is warranted, I need to do that ASAP.

It's a tough situation, and I'm having no luck finding out anything about this stick, so I truly appreciate any information you can share . . . .


Hmmm..do the words "patient confidentiality" mean anything to you? This (in addition to the fact that you refer to yourself as a "shrink") cause me to think you're just a big, fat liar.


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## mum2conor (Jul 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WalkingByFaith* 
Hmmm..do the words "patient confidentiality" mean anything to you? This (in addition to the fact that you refer to yourself as a "shrink") cause me to think you're just a big, fat liar.









She didn't break patient confidentiality. There is nothing in her post that will allow you to identify her patient. As for shrink, when I finished my graduate studies and got licensed, my friends gave me a big wall plaque that said head shrink and I thought it was hysterical.

I have never heard of the wisdom stick, but I think it is probably akin to the rod, but gentler in a way. I hope you can help this mama.


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## Venice Mamacita (Dec 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WalkingByFaith* 
Hmmm..do the words "patient confidentiality" mean anything to you? This (in addition to the fact that you refer to yourself as a "shrink") cause me to think you're just a big, fat liar.

















You're seriously saying this?

I use "shrink" because it's simpler and less confusing to many people than other titles (also because I think it's funnier than MFT) -- I'm actually a licensed Marriage & Family Therapist. As far as patient confidentiality is concerned, all you know about my client is that she's the mother of a 2.5 y/o who's Christian and lives somewhere in California . . . if you can identify her with that much information, then your skills of deduction are far better than most.


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## mkmama (Jul 9, 2006)

Christian, never heard of it. i would suggest having her read this book, its really excellent for Christians and has two great chapters on physical discipline, going into the original Hebrew language about what the "rod" really is.

Heartfelt Discipline


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