# My dh is videotaping us/taking pictures of us when are at our lowest...



## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

I cannot make my dh understand why it makes me so angry that he insists on pulling out the video camera and taping the kids when they are throwing tantrums/crying. He says it's to help them. He insists that if they SEE what they look like when they are upset, they'll not act that way again







Or at least think twice about it.
Let me add that he took pictures of me at my absolute lowest period of post-partum depression...slumped in a chair, lifeless and forlorn. And he showed them to me in an attempt to "motivate" me into changing for the better.
I am FURIOUS tonight and he can't understand why. He videotaped our 3 yr old having a bit of an emotional tantrum after movie time ended.
I told him that he will NOT do that to our kids again (or me).
He says he'll do it a THOUSAND times again since it helps the kids.
Please, please...I think I need help in this situation. He won't hear my explanations about how it makes me feel. How it basically is the most emotionally insensitive thing you could do to a person when they are crying, upset, depressed. It is then that someone needs connection, empathy, and understanding. Not a camera shoved in their face so they can see how vulnerable, angry, upset and ridiculous they look afterward.
Help....


----------



## pacificbliss (Jun 17, 2006)

I am sorry but that sounds horrible. Has he shown these videos to the kids? Did they see what they looked like and never do it again? My guess is no. Since he's willing to do it a 1000 times clearly it's not a deterrent. In my opinion it's just making fun of them and mocking them. Tantrums are completely developmentally normal. I think if someone showed me a picture of myself at a low moent to show me how awful I looked it would push me over the edge. I find it cruel and insensitive. I don't have any links to any psychology journals or anything so I don't think my post is much help. It's just my honest reaction.

So sorry mama.


----------



## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

The thing is...
I think he really feels his heart is in the right place.
He says that if they only knew what they looked like, they wouldn't do it.
My thought is, okay so what's the motivation for them to stop tantruming/hold emotion in? Fear of looking foolish/vulnerable in front of others? Sounds like a recipe for an emotionally constipated person.
But besides that, I am deeply disturbed that he has absolutely no regard for my feelings on this issues. He feels he is right/justified and his utter disregard for my feelings has me INFURIATED.
I guess it's been a pattern for us that is coming up again. Me feeling strongly about an issue, him ignoring my feelings. This is a trigger for me.


----------



## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

How about getting another camera and tape hubby taping your tantruming child and show him how ridiculous, unhelpful, and insensitive he looks? Turnabout is fair play and all that...


----------



## griffin2004 (Sep 25, 2003)

or his beloved camera accidentally gets dropped onto the cement patio from a 2nd story window and breaks into a gazillion pieces; it could happen


----------



## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

That sounds so incredibly messed up, that I can't help but think MAJOR therapy/counseling is in order, for him, perhaps couples' counseling for starters.

Does he always lack empathy?

Is he always so vain that he cares more about what others think than how people feel?


----------



## stormborn (Dec 8, 2001)

Ugh. Film him trying to remove a video tape from an orifice? I'm sorry, but that's just mean.







I would cry harder if someone was following me around with a camera.


----------



## Shellie (Dec 29, 2003)

My biggest issue with what you've written is that even if he feels it's helpful (in his own misguided way







) if you are THAT uncomfortable with something he's doing (anything, really) then he should respect your wishes.

And, if he really thinks it's helpful, why does he need to do it over and over? If it worked the kids wouldn't have tantrums anymore, right?

If I were in your shoes, I think I'd be dragging dh to marriage counseling. Whether or not filming kids having a tantrum is right or wrong (and I think most of us are going to agree that it's insensitive and intrusive) the fact that he can't or won't understand your feelings enough to see where you're coming from is a problem imho.


----------



## Maluhia (Jun 24, 2007)

I'm sorry but for me, I'd really need to get into counseling with DH right away. Not respecting the boundaries of you/your children is really troubling.


----------



## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

We've been talking for the last hour and he still doesn't understand my points.
Our little one did stop tantruming when he showed the tape (which is right around the moment I walked in and lost it) and he feels that this is proof that it worked.
My dh has some sort of disorder going on....I honestly think it is Asperger's Syndrome. He is a very quirky guy. I know he loves the kids but this is not the first time he's blown my mind with some of his very odd emotional disconnection.
But he cannot see my point on this. He can only see his. He asked me to cross post in a different forum this way to see if it would elicit a different response (he feels the way I am phrasing the incident here is what is causing angry reactions):

"Is there value if a tantruming child is able to see themselves (as in being videotaped)?"

He thinks people will actually SEE the value


----------



## Maluhia (Jun 24, 2007)

Even better just ONE visit to a child psychologist, covered by insurance, will tell you that this is damaging to a child's sense of safety and self-esteem.

Note: no matter what she is doing, DD will stop to watch herself on TV/video. It's a novelty to a child and has nothing to do with "learning" if that behavior bothers anyone else.


----------



## mischievium (Feb 9, 2003)

If my DH was doing this and absolutely refused to stop, in the short term I'd either break or make the camera disappear (same for any new ones that might pop up including phones that have video capability). In the long term, we would be going to marriage counseling to find a way to communicate about this, because both his behavior as far as using video taping as a learning tool and the continuing to do it despite your feelings on the matter would not be something I would tolerate.

I hope you find a way to resolve this with your DH







.


----------



## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

I immediately took the camera and hid it. Then I (in a moment of RAGE) screamed at him in front of the kids and called him a few choice words. Bad, I know. I was FURIOUS.
I also told him I wanted him OUT. That's how strongly I feel about this.


----------



## ankh (Feb 23, 2005)




----------



## mntnmom (Sep 21, 2006)

Ask him if it works so well, why do the kids still throw tantrums. Hopefully, he has good intentions, but obviously it's not working. It's making you feel bad, and that should be enough of a reason for him to reconsider his behavior. At best, he is being HIGHLY inconsiderate of you and your opinions.


----------



## luvmybaby333 (Nov 13, 2009)

Oh wow... I don't have any advice, but that just makes me very sad for you. His behavior is not appropriate (however much he feels that he is "helping") and the fact that you are so strongly opposed to it should be enough to make him rethink his actions. I hope you are able to resolve this soon.


----------



## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

Wow. That would be frustrating.









I can understand him trying it once, even with you. I have seen many times recommended, on MDC even, that a spouse record their spouses words or behavior to give them an idea of how unhealthy their behavior is and how it looks to others. However, continuing it when it doesn't work, or when it enrages the other spouse was not a wise decision on his part.









OTOH, if he has Aspergers, that kind of complicates things. I think counseling would be useful for both of you.


----------



## expecting-joy (Sep 15, 2007)

and









If he won't listen you, then I agree you need to see a professional. How sad for you and your children. I cannot even imagine.


----------



## EviesMom (Nov 30, 2004)

This does not "work" at all. Emotions must have an outlet for expression, and if you make the home setting stressful and impossible, nothing positive will ever come from it.

Forget how it makes you or the children feel or any subjective opinion; demand that if he plans to do this again, he must show you 5 studies that show it to be harmless. He won't be able to, because there are studies, and they show that this causes extreme emotional stuntedness. It causes children to feel unsafe and that they have no forum where they can express their feelings. They might learn not to throw tantrums in front of dad and throw them when he's not home. That's the minimum damage he may be causing.

They'll either throw them at school where they feel safer (what my brothers did), stuff their feelings until they snap, have to relearn with expensive psychologists how to express emotions and opinions (believe me, EXPENSIVE).


----------



## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

"Dear Husband,

What you are doing is humiliating, abusive, and damaging to our relationship and to healthy development of our babies. This will not go on. Your choices are:

#1. To stop. NOW. (if you feel you need to seek professional help to see my point - I will support you).

#2. To lose your wife and your children. We will not be abused in this manner.

Heartbroken,

Your Wife."


----------



## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

have you tried to do the same with your dh? videotaped him when he was at his worst? angry or down?

i can see he is a stubborn man but a good one eh? i just wish you could find a way of showing him how his ways are futile.


----------



## KurumiSophia (Nov 28, 2007)

My father did that to me one time and did show me the tape. I was absolutely horrified at how I looked. I couldn't believe how I looked to others so my tantrums stopped. Now it didn't stop other bad behaviour that I perpetrated but it did help with that bit of my behaviour. I will give it to my dad, he destroyed the tape after he showed it to me.

I think it has a lot to do with the child and their level of maturity. While I have no plans of doing that with my daughter, I don't think that I would completely count out that as a tool to use.


----------



## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

I am curious whether more context about who my dh is as a parent change your response.
He is otherwise a very involved, attentive, active, loving and pro-attachment parenting dad. He supports our breastfeeding, family bed, non-vax, non-circ, homebirthing value wholeheartedly.
THIS though. Ugh.
He honestly believe in value here. I think it's because he was raised (we both were) in authoritarian households and reverts back to some weird ideas about what instills change in another person.
I've let him know that REGARDLESS of what he feels what "benefit" can come out of this for me/the kids, I want him to STOP because I/we don't like it.
That is ENOUGH for him to stop immediately.


----------



## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

I'm sorry he's doing that to you...how crazy!! That is extremely disrespectful.

My parents used to always threatening to tape us when we were upset/tantruming as kids and then show it to our future boyfriends but they never actually DID it...it was more like a joke-type thing.


----------



## GinnyMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Oh my goddess... this is the most horrifying thing I've heard all day. I don't have any advice that others haven't given already, but I did want to offer some hugs and emotional support. I'm going through some PPD right now (first time ever), and it's so awful. I already feel stupid crying all the time. I KNOW how ridiculous I look, thank you very much! I can't even fathom how I'd feel if DH took pictures to prove the point. Like a pp said, I'd probably be pushed over the edge. I'm so sorry you've got to deal with this.







(((hugs)))


----------



## Avani (Feb 14, 2006)

My ex did this but to me only. He video taped me at nine months pregnant with him having just thrown me down a flight of stairs and me saying i couldn't live any longer and he had all the kids with him and he kept saying look kids mama doesn't want to live anymore, she is going to leave all of you without a mama. It was horrible and violating. The camera was stolen out of his truck which i believe was his karma for it. I'm sorry he is doing that. It isn't helpful it is a breech of trust and horribly violating. We should all be able to experience life without it having to be videotaped and thrown back into our faces.


----------



## Dingletwitz (Nov 4, 2009)

I've used my "tantrum cam" before--mostly when I was exhausted with a frustrated child and wanted to watch it when I wasn't so I could figure out what the heck was going on....But then.....Dd went through a phase where she loved watching her "fits" on the computer, and she would coach herself on the video--like "it's time to take a deeeeeeeep breath and use your words!"
So,, it turned out to be a strange and unique learning experience for her that I never intended for.


----------



## plunky (Aug 23, 2008)

People are over-reacting. I've never done this, but been tempted to. The temptation comes out of conversations with the upset person where they completely disavow any tantrums or otherwise ridiculous behavior. So, then logically you think about SHOWING them that they actually do the crazy stuff.

There is an Everybody Loves Raymond where he tapes Deborah when she's upset with him. I think it's a common phenomenon. Certainly not worth destroying your husband's property, dragging him into counseling, yelling at him, and then divorcing him like various people have suggested in the thread.


----------



## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

I did find lost of talk about it at several sites...but quite frankly, none of them were attachment parenting sites and none were gentle discipline centered either. They all seemed pretty authoritarian-based models.
I don't know what's going on in the mainstream media in terms of sitcoms...the scope of things that are normalized...and I don't rely on it for my own personal reference. There are several thing normalized in the mainstream that are the exact opposite of my ideals.


----------



## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

Oh...and the camera is my property


----------



## GinnyMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *plunky* 
People are over-reacting. I've never done this, but been tempted to. The temptation comes out of conversations with the upset person where they completely disavow any tantrums or otherwise ridiculous behavior. So, then logically you think about SHOWING them that they actually do the crazy stuff.

There is an Everybody Loves Raymond where he tapes Deborah when she's upset with him. I think it's a common phenomenon. Certainly not worth destroying your husband's property, dragging him into counseling, yelling at him, and then divorcing him like various people have suggested in the thread.

A month ago, I might have agreed with you, whole-heartedly. I don't know about the situation with taping the children. I have no first-hand experience there. But now that I'm going through PPD, and I understand that it is real... it's not about knowing how ridiculous you look. Really. I mean, if you're a perfectly mentally stable person at the moment, yet you're having a tantrum about something, perhaps seeing a videotape of yourself could "snap you out of it". But depression is a serious and real thing... and personally, I KNOW how ridiculous I look. I know. And it makes it worse. To have your DH... the person who is supposed to be there for you during such tough times... humiliate you like that... well, it is just too horrific for me to think about right now.









You talk about logically showing the person their ridiculous behavior. Don't you think that if the person was being logical, they wouldn't be acting that way in the first place? Logic has no place in emotion. Tantrum or otherwise.


----------



## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

That is borderline abuse. I can't think of anything worse than humiliating a child to try to get them to bottle up their feelings.

I GUESS I could see using it as a tool to talk through the tantrum again with your child during the calm time, but certainly not to say, "Look at what a dope you are that you're throwing this fit, you should never do that again!". Which is basically what it sounds like he's trying to do.

Does he KNOW that 3 year olds universally still throw tantrums, that it is a release of emotions, that it's not "bad" behavior, etc.? People are entitled to their feelings.

Hugs, mama. This sounds like a really tough situation. I would be losing the camera for sure.


----------



## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *plunky* 
People are over-reacting. I've never done this, but been tempted to. The temptation comes out of conversations with the upset person where they completely disavow any tantrums or otherwise ridiculous behavior. So, then logically you think about SHOWING them that they actually do the crazy stuff.

There is an Everybody Loves Raymond where he tapes Deborah when she's upset with him. I think it's a common phenomenon. Certainly not worth destroying your husband's property, dragging him into counseling, yelling at him, and then divorcing him like various people have suggested in the thread.

* A person that loves you, will never humiliate you.

* A partner that is debating the use of "unusual parenting" will respect your opinion and your say in raising your children together.

* Videotaping as a one time incident is strange, videotaping as a consistent parenting and relatinoship tool, AFTER I explained how much it affects me, and how much I'm concerned about the effect it might have on our toddler is emotional abuse.

If my parents OR my partner decided to use this, I can very well envision a nervous break down and complete emotional withdrawal from a person who is trying "to teach me a lesson". I know what a healthy relationship looks like, and this is ain't it!


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I would feel humiliated, and I would think the child would feel that way as well. I'd get rid of the video recorder or him.


----------



## guestmama9971 (May 11, 2009)

-


----------



## GoBecGo (May 14, 2008)

Once when my DD was going through a phase of having a very specific type of tantrum which we knew was something physical but which she wouldn't talk to us about i filmed her, for about 10 seconds. Once she had calmed down i showed her and she said "That was when i was sad when the caca was hurting my tummy". I realise what your DH is doing is different but is he showing them and saying "look, look how stupid you look!" or is he saying "can you tell me why this was happening?". We cured our DD's ongoing bowel issues (which could be gone one day and terribly painful for her the next so we never realised it was that) after that short taping, which i too deleted immediately.

The autism really complicates things. I'm mildly autistic, ost of my family are, and actually being shown how i'm acting on tape is incredibly useful and revealing to me, because i'm not always that in touch with how what i'm feeling is coming out ihow i'm acting.


----------



## Smithie (Dec 4, 2003)

If what will work is the Voice of Authority, then you can tell your DH that my DH and I were in the developmental pediatrician's office not two weeks ago with a tape of my son totally freaking out during his Consecration ceremony. (DH wasn't intending to tape him acting nutty, we was actually hoping for a nice tape of an important religious milestone, but that's not how it went...) Anyhow, we thought the tape would be very useful for the dev ped to see the triggers of the stimming behaviors, which stims he resorted to, to talk to our son about about what he was feeling in that moment, etc. The doctor DID find it useful as a dxing tool, _but he made a huge point of promising our son that nobody would ever deliberately make a tape of him that he would be embarrassed to see._ And he told us to switch off the tape next time the misbehavior starts, because he's now seen what he needed to see and no good comes from having that stuff around.

So. There you go. A licensed professional with a white coat and a prescription pad says that deliberately making humiliating tapes of small children is a big no-no.


----------



## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *plunky* 
People are over-reacting. I've never done this, but been tempted to. The temptation comes out of conversations with the upset person where they completely disavow any tantrums or otherwise ridiculous behavior. So, then logically you think about SHOWING them that they actually do the crazy stuff.

There is an Everybody Loves Raymond where he tapes Deborah when she's upset with him. I think it's a common phenomenon. Certainly not worth destroying your husband's property, dragging him into counseling, yelling at him, and then divorcing him like various people have suggested in the thread.

That's interesting, I didn't know people do this taping thing. Doesn't make it OK. Though I agree that divorce seems a little extreme.

I would imagine that the context is important. The audience was probably supposed to conclude that Raymond taping Deborah was a stupid, insensitive, utterly disrespectful thing to do, typical boneheaded-Raymond stuff.

More important in the OP's situation is that her dh didn't stop when the OP told him to. _He won't hear my explanations about how it makes me feel._


----------



## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

Ugh. If your child or your spouse is going through a hard time and you're picking up a camera to film it, then you're doing that instead of helping them feel better, comforting them, removing them from a situation that isn't working, providing a soothing presence, helping them talk it through, or helping them feel loved. Doesn't sound like a good use of time to me.

A camera also creates distance in a really creepy way. If my spouse created a video of me designed to show me at my worst moment, I'd feel humiliated and unloved, thinking "while I was [sad/mad/unhappy], THAT was all he could see." It's just such a distancing thing to do, and it would make me scared to express how I was feeling for entirely appearance-related reasons. That's not a good message to send to a kid. It doesn't give them any tools to deal with their feelings, and just instills fear of how they look to others when they express them.


----------



## MissLotus (Nov 2, 2005)

I don't think divorce is extreme. What he's doing is disrespectful, to put it mildly, and really creepy. Instead of showing caring, concern or constructive discipline, he detaches himself enough to get behind a camera and start filming? It's obvious that _he_ is the one with emotional problems and can't deal with them in a healthy manner. He's willing to be at odds with his wife over this! and willing to humiliate his children. I'd tell him to take his camera and have a nice life with it.


----------



## plunky (Aug 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *journeymom* 
More important in the OP's situation is that her dh didn't stop when the OP told him to. _He won't hear my explanations about how it makes me feel._

Why should he just stop? He is an equal partner in the marriage. Husbands don't work for their wives, or vice versa. This board is full of conflicts between husbands and wives about alternative strategies for dealing with a myriad of problems. And if this was an issue that was in line with the thinking of MDC, no one would suggest that a mother "just stop" doing whatever AP-type thing was going on, regardless of if her husband agreed with her.


----------



## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *griffin2004* 
or his beloved camera accidentally gets dropped onto the cement patio from a 2nd story window and breaks into a gazillion pieces; it could happen


----------



## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *plunky* 
Why should he just stop? He is an equal partner in the marriage. Husbands don't work for their wives, or vice versa.

He should stop when asked because the mom and their children have a right to control how and when their pictures are being taken, they have a right to control the circumstances under which they are emotionally vulnerable, and they have a right not to be subjected to humiliating treatment in their own home.

There's a saying, 'my right to swing my fist ends where your face begins'. Along those lines, 'my right to take pictures of whatever I want wherever I want ends when a human subject enters the view screen'. At that point I need their consent.

To the OP: I agree with all the previous posters that this could be highly damaging to your child. If my DH did this the only options would be therapy or divorce.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *plunky* 
Why should he just stop? He is an equal partner in the marriage.

Because it is humiliating and emotionally abusive. I assume you think men who are beating up their wives should stop and don't get "an equal say" as to whether their behavior is acceptable.


----------



## chaoticzenmom (May 21, 2005)

If the camera is yours, then you can either destroy it or hide it to use for when you'd like to use it. I'd probably hide it, but conveniently find it when I wanted to use it and then hide it again...or I'd destroy it.

How did you feel when he recorded you? Have you discussed this with him? Is he sympathetic towards your feelings on that?

Does he realize how High and Mighty he is acting with his filming?


----------



## plunky (Aug 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Because it is humiliating and emotionally abusive. I assume you think men who are beating up their wives should stop and don't get "an equal say" as to whether their behavior is acceptable.

Come on now. The person I responded to basically said the husband should stop because it was upsetting the wife, and there are many other similar posts in this thread. There are many things that upset people and they become threads on this board. How many threads come up like "my husband is upset because I'm co-sleeping with my three year old" or "my husband is upset because I breastfed in public", etc? All I'm saying is that in those cases, you won't see poster here telling the mother to stop just because her husband is upset (and rightly so). The same applies here. The husband should not stop a behavior simply because it is upsetting. Parenting is stressful stuff that people have emotional attachments to. Both parents, not just moms.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

It isn't just upsetting, though. It's a stronger level of that, and it IS humiliating and emotionally abusive. There are some issues that aren't open for compromise. My dh and I don't compromise on whether our kids get spanked. Neither of us gets to humiliate anyone in the family. Etc. Some things are simply wrong. If my husband felt he deserved an equal say in whether he could humiliate me and our children, he wouldn't be my husband anymore. And I'm quite sure he'd say the same thing if I decided I had some right to humiliate him and our children.


----------



## Wild Lupine (Jul 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *plunky* 
Come on now. The person I responded to basically said the husband should stop because it was upsetting the wife, and there are many other similar posts in this thread. There are many things that upset people and they become threads on this board. How many threads come up like "my husband is upset because I'm co-sleeping with my three year old" or "my husband is upset because I breastfed in public", etc? All I'm saying is that in those cases, you won't see poster here telling the mother to stop just because her husband is upset (and rightly so). The same applies here. The husband should not stop a behavior simply because it is upsetting. Parenting is stressful stuff that people have emotional attachments to. Both parents, not just moms.

According to this logic, it is OK for a partner can videotape a spouse in the shower or during sex and not stop when the spouse says, 'no, that's upsetting me.' Is that really what you are trying to say?

I agree that sometimes threads come up that really aren't that big a deal, but this isn't one of them. Enough people have quoted enough professionals to indicate that videotaping a child when emotionally vulnerable is damaging. Partner do have a right to request a stop to damaging behavior. In fact, they have a responsibility to protect their child. Surely there are some behaviors, spanking, beating, shaming, for example, that you would not tolerate from your child's co-parent? (Sorry to sound clinical, but I don't know your family situation.) The behavior the OP described is as potentially damaging as those, so why should she tolerate her child being treated that way?


----------



## ~Charlie's~Angel~ (Mar 17, 2008)

OK, I have not read all the responses here (so not sure if anyone has already posted something along these lines), however, I would like to share MY experience with the OP, so she can share it with her DH, and maybe he might feel differently about his actions.

When I was about 3, my mother did this very thing when I was having a bad day. I was miserable, and no matter what she did, I was just being 3. So in an act of frustration/desperation/lack of sympathy on her part, she took my picture. SHE STILL HAS IT IN A PHOTO ALBUM! At the time, she told me she was going to take my picture so she could show me what a brat I was being someday. I can remember looking at this picture later when I was 4 and 5, and crying and crying, feeling very distraught at the image. It was very traumatic, and I believe a lot of my insecurities, poor self image, and poor self esteem (And how I am so afraid of how other people see me) stems from this.

Please understand that my mother was/is NOT a nasty person. But she had a few insecurities of her own that trickled over to me, and also affected her judgment a few times. This was one of them.

So please try to get your husband to stop doing this. I fear your children might end up with the same insecurities I still battle with today if he continues. Also, whatever images he has already, BURN THEM! So that your children never have to be reminded of these instances again.


----------



## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

A word of warning to all. I got a message from the mod that some disgusting piece of primordial fecal matter decided to steal my post and flame it on another website. I read what they wrote...can't believe they are real people. They sound like a bunch of cracked-out mini-minds with no life (thus the stealing/discussing of another's life...). One of those slugs suggested that my dh would videotape my children and give the footage to pedophile friends. Ugh.
I'm going to continue discussion in the generous hope that a little intellectual conversation might actually stimulate them into a higher level of being.

Plunky, perhaps it would help if you explained how you feel this kind of videotaping is beneficial to me/a child AND promotes gentle discipline/attachment parenting?
All of the moms here who won't stop breastfeeding, keep co-sleeping, etc can provides mountains of research to show how it benefits the child.
Yes, he an equal but this is damaging, against our purported values and makes us feel like crap....I'd like to hear some explanations of how it is beneficial (he has said he will stop it by the way but wants to continue his "research" on the topic).
I also want to add that you can find stuff on the web that advocates things like using HOT SAUCE on a child's tongue as punishment or sites that sell whipping tools for punishing children and find all of the justification in the world for it. The question is, what values do you want to promote? We've jointly advocated what WE want to promote and this isn't it.


----------



## plunky (Aug 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
It isn't just upsetting, though. It's a stronger level of that, and it IS humiliating and emotionally abusive.

This is open to interpretation within the respondents of this thread. Some of you consider this emotionally abusive. I do not. Clearly the OP's husband does not. And there have been other people in the thread who have disagreed as well.


----------



## plunky (Aug 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ahappymel* 

Plunky, perhaps it would help if you explained how you feel this kind of videotaping is beneficial to me/a child AND promotes gentle discipline/attachment parenting?

I don't think I ever said that. Of course I also never said that beating your spouse was good or invading your spouse's privacy was great, which is how a couple people have spun my arguments.

I don't like how everyone was piling on your DH, who you told us was a great parent in every other way. This was a disagreement between you and your husband. It did not require vilifying him like people have done in this thread.

I stand by what I said originally. I've had this thought, that perhaps if I recorded someone while they were upset, that they'd see what I saw. Because sometimes you get into arguments with people and they deny that they said things. Or that they were hurtful. Or that they were ridiculous. I don't know that it would be useful with a child.

I do agree that these recordings should be destroyed utterly after your DH gets whatever point he was trying to make across.


----------



## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *plunky* 
This is open to interpretation within the respondents of this thread. Some of you consider this emotionally abusive. I do not. Clearly the OP's husband does not. And there have been other people in the thread who have disagreed as well.

Actually...I am the OP and my dh admitted that what he did to me...snapping pictures/taping when I was having a really rough period of depression after our child was born, was wrong. He said it himself. He made a mistake. It was wrong.
But he can't get it for the kids. It's as if their emotions are less or something. He said he feels that way because the tantruming was due to something illogical. I said, 3 yr olds ARE illogical. But a child's feelings/wants ARE his needs. It is REAL to him. Important. Intense. He feels the same emotions we feel when we grieve over loss.
Maybe he'll get it. Either way, he promised not to do it again. I made some of my own promises in return about things he feels strongly about.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *plunky* 
This is open to interpretation within the respondents of this thread. Some of you consider this emotionally abusive. I do not. Clearly the OP's husband does not. And there have been other people in the thread who have disagreed as well.

Well I read the OP to my dh, and he also said it sounds emotionally abusive, so I know he'll never do it and I won't have to divorce him over it. You do in your marriage what works for you and your spouse. But either spouse gets to decide when something crosses the line for them because either spouse can choose to leave.


----------



## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

I will always maintain that the most important thing someone in anger/pain/fear needs when they are falling apart in front of a trusted family member is comfort, love, empathy or maybe even a circle of space.
But not a camera in the face.
I still want to know what ANYONE feels a 3 yr old can learn/interpret from watching himself tantrum. What is he learning? That he looks ridiculous? That he won't do it again? So what does he do with the emotions next time? Hide them? Hold them in?
Does he learn he can't be vulnerable with us?
What does he GAIN?


----------



## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *plunky* 
I don't think I ever said that. Of course I also never said that beating your spouse was good or invading your spouse's privacy was great, which is how a couple people have spun my arguments.

I hear you...and I don't think anyone was saying you said that. I think they were questioning the logic behind your statement.
What I was attempting to discover is this.
You said that you didn't feel the videotaping was abusive. I realize that my dh didn't either. Yes, he is a good dad. I know his heart was in the right place but sometimes the road to hell...
Either way, my pain came because I know how it made it feel. I know what our purported value systems are. And I am trying to figure out how this method contributed to those value systems. He can't seem to provide an explanation of how it created love, comfort, trust or empathy.
I guess I wanted to hear your ideas. You don't think it's abusive. What do you think it is? And why?


----------



## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ahappymel* 
All of the moms here who won't stop breastfeeding, keep co-sleeping, etc can provides mountains of research to show how it benefits the child.
Yes, he an equal but this is damaging, against our purported values and *makes us feel like crap.*...I'd like to hear some explanations of how it is beneficial (he has said he will stop it by the way but wants to continue his "research" on the topic)

I think it's a terrible idea, so I can't address the explanations of how it could be beneficial.

The line that I bolded, though, would be more than enough to justify your wanting him to stop. I'm wondering if asking him questions about this would be better. For example:
-Why do you think a child has a tantrum?
-How can seeing yourself in a bad space help you learn?
-If someone is humiliated, what will they learn from the experience?

You can learn to stop a behavior without learning to actually deal with the emotions that underlie the behavior. But, if you haven't learned to constructively deal with the underlying emotions, they're likely to come out in unhealthy ways at other times. A child who sees themselves tantruming may well be humiliated enough to stop it. BUT they won't have learned any new skills in self-regulation. Instead, they'll have added a layer of humiliation to their frustration.


----------



## Teenytoona (Jun 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *plunky* 
People are over-reacting. I've never done this, but been tempted to. The temptation comes out of conversations with the upset person where they completely disavow any tantrums or otherwise ridiculous behavior. So, then logically you think about SHOWING them that they actually do the crazy stuff.

There is an Everybody Loves Raymond where he tapes Deborah when she's upset with him. I think it's a common phenomenon. Certainly not worth destroying your husband's property, dragging him into counseling, yelling at him, and then divorcing him like various people have suggested in the thread.

Seriously, using Everybody Loves Raymond as a gauge for this is unacceptable. The man whines when he has to "babysit" his own kids.







Depending on the situation any of the following: "destroying your husband's property, dragging him into counseling, yelling at him, and then divorcing him" could well be applicable.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kmarie42* 
It would be one thing if it was an adult, say, having anger management issues...but to try to "correct" the behavior of post partum depression, or a 3 year old who does not yet understand how to process emotions like an adult... I mean come on! Those are not things that need corrected. Those are both situations where the person needs support and love.


AN adult with anger management problems more than likely has a different version of depression or some other mental issues. I guarantee this would not help anger problems. Post Partum Depression and Depression don't just manifest in depressive spells. Some of us fight real rage and anger problems being taped while doing so, to watch at another time would SO not help, in fact that would make things far worse. If it won't work for an adult, sure as heck not for a kid.

That said, if my DH tried to do that to me, it would be a matter of minutes before the camera is destroyed - by my own hand. OP I"m so sorry you're dealing with this and then the internet trolls twisting it.


----------



## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

This practice is emotionally abusive to you and your children. If he won't stop... I'd issue some sort of ultimatum. No one needs to be reminded they had a bad day. Instead, he should pitch in and help everyone have better days.


----------



## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

I asked my dh what would he do if he saw me depressed and miserable. His response "get you chocolate of course."









I also asked him what he thought about what your husband did. I can't repeat what he said though.

If someone was so callous as to videotape me at my lowest looking like crap, to show me later so I can "do better", they will be taking their butt to the ER, you know what I'm saying? It's just sooo disrespectful.


----------



## Krisis (May 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Equuskia* 
I asked my dh what would he do if he saw me depressed and miserable. His response "get you chocolate of course."









Can I borrow your husband?









OP, I don't know if I have anything to say other than to repeat that it's a horrible thing to do to people you love. And that camera would be gone in my house.


----------



## Moonchild77 (Apr 15, 2008)

Quote:

He said he feels that way because the tantruming was due to something illogical. I said, 3 yr olds ARE illogical. But a child's feelings/wants ARE his needs. It is REAL to him. Important. Intense. He feels the same emotions we feel when we grieve over loss.
Maybe he'll get it. Either way, he promised not to do it again. I made some of my own promises in return about things he feels strongly about.
At OP , I understand you.

My dp is a bit like that, he also took pics of me with his phone when I was cfrying and stuff, 8 mo pregnant....

He has no Asperger, but is a bit odd, he is like the ONE who knows what is best, so when my ds1 is having a tantrum, (3.5 y) he also says "suck it up/someting like that / it is no big thing..."etc.
When it IS a big thing. I try to validate my ds1 and ds2 's feelings, but dp thinks that validating is stupid, like if it is dwelling or drowning in your feelings and that trying to cheer up or stop the tantrum/crying ("he, you are not a girl!"







) is better.

I hate it when he says to stop what I am doing (validating) in the presence of the child in question.

I am glad that he promised not to do it anymore. I think, by reading your posts, you and your dh do have a strong band/connection and I am happy for you, you are loved and he is and this strange thing of his, I do hope he will at least try to follow you and respect the feelings of others in this situation.

My dp and I, we are not in a happy spot, but I can really feel you do have a great basis, all the best with trying to get through to him,OP!


----------



## InMediasRes (May 18, 2009)

Glad you got him to agree to stop, OP.

This is making me wonder about a something. I wonder if we should throw out a few pictures we have of my son at about 4 mo, practically purple and screaming, stiff as a board (with me holding him, of course). DH says he took those pictures to show "the good and the bad" of our first year with Andrew. And truly, the pictures where he is smiling (which is most of them) represent about 5% of what he was actually like. But now I'm thinking it might be good to trash them. Hm.


----------



## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

The OP's husband's behavior is abusive and grounds for divorce.

If he doesn't care about his wife's or children's feelings, then he does not have any respect for them. He needs to take their feelings seriously.

Humiliation is NOT okay.


----------



## Krisis (May 29, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SactoMommy* 
Glad you got him to agree to stop, OP.

This is making me wonder about a something. I wonder if we should throw out a few pictures we have of my son at about 4 mo, practically purple and screaming, stiff as a board (with me holding him, of course). DH says he took those pictures to show "the good and the bad" of our first year with Andrew. And truly, the pictures where he is smiling (which is most of them) represent about 5% of what he was actually like. But now I'm thinking it might be good to trash them. Hm.

I wouldn't. The pictures weren't intended to teach Andrew a lesson, your DH took them to illustrate how your lives were that that point in time. We have plenty of pictures of Toby crying as a baby and I think they are cute. They also remind me what I am not missing









If your DH had taken those pics to show Andrew "look what a horrid baby you were" then yeah, I'd get rid of them. Otherwise, Andrew will look at them someday and think "oh look at me as a baby! Wow, I wonder what I was so upset about." You know?


----------



## NightOwlwithowlet (Jun 13, 2009)

My husband took some pictures of me once half asleep, hair standing on end, 3 days without shower while camping. He took pictures of our then three year old having a doozy of a melt down. It really made me angry. He thought it was funny, taking the pictures was funny I mean.

In his family, that kind of thing is considered funny. Actually, compared to the rest of his family, DH's sense of humor is pretty mild. They are of the "guy gets hit in the groin" is hysterically funny school of thought. My in laws seriously think the Benny Hill show is the greatest comedy show of all times. Sadly, I've seen my SIL tease her niece almost to tears until DH stepped in. Our niece was six at the time, SIL was 32. My point is DH was never taught that this kind of humor isn't funny to the victim.

DH is an empathetic guy. He rescues stray dogs, gives home to feral cats, volunteers with homeless vets. He is generally loving and kind to both DS and I. He was the first person to realize I had post partum depression and make sure I got help.

I took four steps to deal with the problem.
1. I discussed it with him when I wasn't furious and explained why it bothered me.
2. I deleted or shredded all the pictures and videos I found offensive.
3. Then I video taped his family being "funny" which usually involved the victim of the joke in abject humiliation (din't video tape the victim). I had him watch the video and asked how he thought the victim felt and how he thought the people being "funny" looked to the rest of the world.
4. I photographed or video taped DH in some fairly embarrassing situations; snoring with his mouth wide open and drooling, going to the bathroom, loosing his temper when he couldn't fix the car. To his credit, he actually laughed at the pictures of himself, but he was humiliated by the video tape of him losing his temper.

Now, he won't even take a photo without asking. The few times he started to slip, I just ask him if he really wanted to have this fight.


----------



## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

I haven't read all the posts, but I haven't noticed anyone discussing the value of tantrums. Tantrums are a LOs way of learning to deal with big overwhelming emotions. It's fine being supportive and comforting, but we don't want to shame or scare the child into stopping the tantrum because it's important for human beings to learn how to deal with big overwhelming emotions. Research has shown if a child is punished for tantrums they may not learn to deal properly with their emotions and have emotional outbursts and anger problems as teens and adults.

I don't know about your DH, but I'd rather have my DD have her tantrums between 2 and 4 years of age instead of have them as a teen and adult. After she became able to say "I'm angry at/about xyz" at about 3.5 the tantrums have mostly stopped.
As for the other issue, we don't have any pictures or videos of her being unhappy. We just don't think it's respectful to take embarrassing pictures or even pictures without someones consent.


----------



## Blueone (Sep 12, 2009)

I would be mad too, especially the one of you with depression, that was just not right. Have you talked to him about it? I would steal the camera and hide it.

I hate to say this, but my dad once (and I mean ONLY ONCE) took pictures of me and my brother having a tantrum when I was 8 I think? My brother was around 6. We saw those pictures and never had one again quite like that at least. We had little ones, but not like those. But we were also a lot older and understood. When kids are older I don't see anything wrong with showing them how to throw a better tantrum (For Better for For Worse comic strip), or showing them what it looks like, but they have to comprehend it. A 3.5 year old won't.

Try talking to him about it or hide the camera.


----------



## webjefita (Aug 16, 2003)

I hope you and DH have found some peace on this.

I think there tends to be severe reactions to partners on this board, because we can't know the whole story. I think there's always the possibility that the partner can be given the benefit of the doubt, no matter the mistake that was made.

He tried it once, he was censured for it, possibly felt he had to hold on to his dignity by insisting it was right. My husband tends to react that way (the "I will do it a THOUSAND TIMES" kind of thing) when I get in his face or bent out of shape (OP_I don't know how you reacted, just saying IME). But when I calmly let him know how I feel, without berating him, and trust him to really think it over and reconsider (in private), he reacts much more reasonably.

I think there is something to be said for having faith in your partner, his intentions, and his ability to reason and evaluate his own behavior, the same way we attempt to do with our children. I say this out of helpfulness. And experience. Good luck!


----------



## GinnyMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *webjefita* 
I hope you and DH have found some peace on this.

I think there tends to be severe reactions to partners on this board, because we can't know the whole story. I think there's always the possibility that the partner can be given the benefit of the doubt, no matter the mistake that was made.

He tried it once, he was censured for it, possibly felt he had to hold on to his dignity by insisting it was right. My husband tends to react that way (the "I will do it a THOUSAND TIMES" kind of thing) when I get in his face or bent out of shape (OP_I don't know how you reacted, just saying IME). But when I calmly let him know how I feel, without berating him, and trust him to really think it over and reconsider (in private), he reacts much more reasonably.

I think there is something to be said for having faith in your partner, his intentions, and his ability to reason and evaluate his own behavior, the same way we attempt to do with our children. I say this out of helpfulness. And experience. Good luck!

I just can't believe he even did it once! It's just so incredibly insensitive. Then again, I'm going through PPD myself right now so it's very close to my heart.


----------



## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

My dh and I have been together for 5 yrs. When he first did it to my oldest son, I did not have this reaction.
It was the fact that he continued to do it despite the fact that I said I didn't like it., son said he didn't like it.
Now that it came up again with a toddler in the house, I've lost all tolerance for it.


----------



## gamelia (Nov 7, 2009)

Hey OP. Just came across this thread and have read the responses thus far. It sounds like things have been "worked out" between you and your DH, to some extent. I hope that's the case.









Something I've always noticed here is that mamas get a great deal of support. Dads.... not so much. That's okay. It's "Mothering" not "Fathering". That said, I see a lot of anger coming through you posts - you mention that the camera is yours, so I assume at least something things are not shared in your household, between you and your husband. I also read that you hid the camera from him. And, that you got furious and screamed at him about this issue in front of your children. I think that goes to show how much this really bothers you!









The possessiveness, hiding and fighting behaviors are no more or less healthy/"abusive" than his behavior. He says he'll do it 1000 times. So you hide the camera. Not healthy on either side. I hope that doesn't come off as harsh. I don't mean it that way! I agree with the previous posters who think you might benefit from couples counseling, but I suspect you'll find that you both need to work a little more _with_ each other. I say this gently, but for you to essentially tantrum over your husband taping your child's tantrum (which I personally think is weird, but fits into the myriad of GD techniques).... I think neither of you are teaching your children anything about better behavior or about conflict resolution. Don't recall what your child was tantruming about in the first place, but like many 3y/o, it was probably about not getting what he wanted. He may be mimicking...

It _is_ great to have a man who stands his ground. No, this doesn't mean I think he should be able to beat you, but he's standing firm on a parenting issue within your home and with your children. We celebrate the man who says "Well, I'm going to anyway." to doctors who warn about avoiding vaccines... Same behavior, different circumstance. This is just an example. Your DH seems to care and to be involved in an ongoing way. It's normal to disagree on parenting techniques, but just because you disagree or don't like something doesn't make your husband less entitled to parent your children.

For his taping behavior to be labeled abusive minimizes true abuse. I sincerely think he believes this technique will help - and in some situations, it probably does. Counseling may help both of you hear each other a little better, and interact better when you disagree. This in turn sets a better example for your children.

Good luck!


----------



## newbymom05 (Aug 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ahappymel* 
I will always maintain that the most important thing someone in anger/pain/fear needs when they are falling apart in front of a trusted family member is comfort, love, empathy or maybe even a circle of space.
But not a camera in the face.
I still want to know what ANYONE feels a 3 yr old can learn/interpret from watching himself tantrum. What is he learning? That he looks ridiculous? That he won't do it again? So what does he do with the emotions next time? Hide them? Hold them in?
Does he learn he can't be vulnerable with us?
What does he GAIN?

I can't even read the rest of the thread, it's so disturbing to me. IMHO your DH is absolutely wrong and in this issue, abusive. I don't care how great a parent someone is, to blatantly disregard someone's feelings over and over again is WRONG. If you are telling him this is a no-argument issue for you, that should be it.

But re: your question, I don't think it will teach a 3 y/o anything constructive, and in fact I think it will be very damaging. The early years are when kids learn to deal with scary emotions like anger and fear. My 4.5 y/o can't even watch cartoons with angry or very sad characters--they freak him out. I'm not talking extreme examples either, I mean like Cailou upset over accidentally coloring in a library book--that was too much realistic emotion for my preschooler. I can't even imagine how upsetting seeing himself lose control would be. He's much further along than your child developmentally age-wise, and I am 100% certain that he would learn NOTHING from seeing his tantrums other than fear, humiliation, and insecurity.

I don't want to dogpile on your husband (and I haven't read the rest of the thread so maybe I'm missing some important info), but I think he needs to read some AP discipline books--Gentle Parenting, the Sears Discipline Books, Playful Parenting, Parent Effectiveness Training...something.

What he is doing is WRONG and you are right to put a stop to it. He should stop because it bothers you so much, if nothing else.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gamelia* 
For his taping behavior to be labeled abusive minimizes true abuse. I sincerely think he believes this technique will help - and in some situations, it probably does.

Humiliating someone is emotional abuse, and emotional abuse IS true abuse. If he did it once and wasn't aware of how she responded and stopped, it would be one thing. But he knew how much it hurt her and continued. This IS real abuse, and women who suffer from emotional abuse deserve the same recognition and support as those who suffer physical abuse.

Also, people who spank think it will help, and in many cases it stops the behavior that is a problem. That doesn't make it OK. The ends do not justify the means.


----------



## major_mama11 (Apr 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *griffin2004* 
How about getting another camera and tape hubby taping your tantruming child and show him how ridiculous, unhelpful, and insensitive he looks? Turnabout is fair play and all that...









: sounds fair to me...

ETA- read whole thread, glad he agreed to stop.


----------



## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

Hey OP, I'm glad things are turning in the right direction.

Of course it's hard to judge what is going on between two people in a relationship--human relationships are just too dynamic to be summed up in a post. I would tend to think the videotape and replay method of parenting is probably not choice for a 3 year old, but I haven't BTDT. Only you know how it is impacting you and your child, so I wanted to offer a







.

Incidentally, I can see where someone might result to videotaping a child's tantrum and showing it to them (and then destroying the tape) if the child were, say 10 years old, and clearly able to understand the inappropriateness of it. But I don't know.

I hope you and your Huz are working towards a happier, healthier place, however you can. Good luck to you both.


----------



## StoriesInTheSoil (May 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
Humiliating someone is emotional abuse, and emotional abuse IS true abuse. If he did it once and wasn't aware of how she responded and stopped, it would be one thing. But he knew how much it hurt her and continued. This IS real abuse, and women who suffer from emotional abuse deserve the same recognition and support as those who suffer physical abuse.

Also, people who spank think it will help, and in many cases it stops the behavior that is a problem. That doesn't make it OK. The ends do not justify the means.

I just wanted to say that I completely agree with this post. Completely.


----------



## gamelia (Nov 7, 2009)

Just wanted to check back in and restate my point, in case I was unclear. Again, OP, I'm ever trying to offer helpful suggestions and feedback and I do know this has to be a challenging situation for you and your DH.









In my opinion, your DH is not abusing you or your children by attempting to record a temper tantrum or other episode and then replay it so that you or the children can observe yourselves. Weird? Yes!! It _is_ weird. Do I think it works? Clearly not in this situation. But it isn't abusive - even emotionally. Especially during arguments, even extended ones, most people refuse to drop an issue and continue to belabor the point. Helpful? No. Emotional? Yes, for both parties. Abusive? NO, not generally.

Emotional, physical, mental, spiritual... abuse takes many forms. But one parent disagreeing over parenting tactic/technique, however passionately, and the other continuing to do it (or refusing) does not make the situation abusive. It's no more abusive than OP disagreeing and not allowing her DH to video tape.

If it hurts him that she continuously refuses to allow it (and clearly it does), and makes him feel humiliated as a father, does that make her abusive? I'd challenge anyone to find as much support for that claim on these boards - both because she's the mother and because it's just as ludicrous a claim on the flipside.

_Both_ parents have a right to make parenting choices, even those the other parent disagrees with. Homogeneity in parenting does not provide children the opportunity to observe passionate argument and resolution, to observe senseless acts and then, sensitivity & apology, etc.

To bring up spanking as a defense is shallow. This is a much more delicate issue. Given that the OP stated her husband was otherwise a wonderful father makes it crystal clear to me that this is an isolated disagreement between the parents and should be approached as such - not by a hysteric "I'd throw him out so fast..." perspective. That simply isn't rational or helpful, and to label the husband abusive may be what OP is looking for, but I suspect it is not truth. Let us remember not to bear false witness against others - most if not all of our replies are, to this family, the thoughts of strangers. There is an important difference between being angry/in disagreement and being humiliated - another term thrown around much too casually. To label this woman's husband as emotionally abusive so casually and one-sidedly is a shame to those who do so.

Again, good luck OP. I do think pastoral or marital counseling is a great idea for parents who are committed to healthy parenting but struggling to see eye to eye on specific issues. You may not end up seeing eye to eye on this, but hopefully you can find some discipline compromises that help the most important person in this situation - your kid. Take care!!


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

No, refusing to allow something to be done to you is not abusive. Repeatedly doing something to someone against their will is.


----------



## SugarAndSun (Feb 6, 2005)

BIL did this to MIL while she was on life support! She didn't go to the doctors and almost died. He thought he could teach her a lesson. She felt extremely sad and violated. I don't think he realized how weird it was or something... maybe your dh just doesn't get how weird that is. Can you tell him when he is calm... he may be more open to it.


----------

