# If your child came home with this mark, what would you think?



## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

I took ds to his daycare at 8:30 this morning. When we left the daycare at 6pm I noticed this mark on his arm. If you saw this mark... what would you think it was?

As a little more info... I work at the daycare ds goes to, but I'm in a different room. If I work a long day (like today) I usually check in on him a few times during the day. Lately ds has been having a hard time (he has autism and these long days are ROUGH on him- I was only hired to work 2-6 but have been working longer hours since he's out of school.... he's not adjusted well to it). Today I checked on him at about 2pm (right after nap time when I took him to go potty). He was upset because he wanted to go home and had had a bad morning. But I got him calmed down and he was fine. A couple hours later, at about 4:30, one of the teachers in his room brought him down to my room and said something about how he was "beating up everyone" and left him in my room, crying. I asked ds why he was crying but all he could say was "my teacher hurt me". I was super busy at the minute so didn't really have time to figure it all out (like I said- ds has autism so communication is an issue for him and the truth of what happens usually never comes out because he doesn't have the communication skills for it). I calmed him down and got him to talk a little. He explained some of what happened (which, again, boiled down to lack of communication- he wanted to close a door on the playhouse but one of the kids refused to move her hands so he closed the door anyway and hurt her fingers... at least that's what I got from what ds was saying). But he couldn't elaborate on how/why his teacher was hurting him.

I took him back outside to where his class was. I tried talking to his teacher but she offered very vague responses (wouldn't tell me WHO he was hurting or WHY or HOW) and just generally was pissed off and didn't want to talk to me. I was busy and parents were coming to pick up their kids by this time so I went back to my room.

When I got ds home I noticed that mark on his arm. He can't tell me what happened, other than "my teacher hurt me".









I really don't want to bring my ds back tomorrow but I'm supposed to work another long day. Fortunately the teacher from today won't be working there tomorrow (there were 2 teachers in his room- one is there every day, including today, and the other is only there 2 days a week, including today). The other teacher who was in his room today will be there tomorrow morning. I'm going to talk to my boss about this tomorrow but I wanted to see if anyone could think of another explanation for the marks before I jump to conclusions and accuse a co-worker of hurting my child.

To me it looks like someone pinched him on the arm really hard.


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## HeatherRenee (Apr 3, 2009)

Poor baby!

It looks like either a pinch or even a bite. (Hubby said Bite mark when I showed him too). I know that some people think that biting is ok if the child bites someone.. so if it is a bite mark, that's probably why.

Why would someone put a hand (or tooth) on a child that is not theirs? (Or even theirs.. I don't get parents sometimes..but that's a rant for a different topic)

How is he feeling? Can he show you what happened, since he isn't able to tell you?


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

I must admit that's how it looks to me as well.

I understand your ds has difficulty with communication but "my teacher hurt me" seems pretty straight forward to me.

I hope the daycare deals appropriately with this situation.


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## mamakah (Nov 5, 2008)

The minute I saw it I thought bite.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Unfortunately, I've seen my share of bite marks (working in childcare for the last 7 years). This does not look like any bite mark I've ever seen. It doesn't have the teeth imprints or even the teeth/mouth shape. Not saying it isn't a bite mark, but I (personally) don't think it is.

I would even be hard pressed to say that another child made that mark. The picture doesn't do it justice... it's worse in real life







DS is the oldest in his class (but not the biggest). He's not a violent child, in general, so I was shocked to hear he was "beating up everyone". I think he was just having a rough day and his teacher was tired of dealing with him.

But I am absolutely shocked that he has this mark on him and his teacher(s) didn't inform me before they left (they both left before I did). If a teacher did inflict this wound on him (and I don't really have any reason to doubt what my ds says) I don't even know where to go from here







I think I'll ask my boss to see the tape from that time frame on the playground to see exactly what was happening.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

your second link doesn't work.

but the first one looks like a bite kind of to me. I've never seen a pinch mark before, so i'm not sure. but my kids bite marks look like that, only in the shape of their teeth.

is it possible another kid did it? I am so sorry - this is totally awful for you guys I have no advice.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephandOwen* 
Unfortunately, I've seen my share of bite marks (working in childcare for the last 7 years). This does not look like any bite mark I've ever seen. It doesn't have the teeth imprints or even the teeth/mouth shape. Not saying it isn't a bite mark, but I (personally) don't think it is.

I would even be hard pressed to say that another child made that mark. The picture doesn't do it justice... it's worse in real life







DS is the oldest in his class (but not the biggest). He's not a violent child, in general, so I was shocked to hear he was "beating up everyone". I think he was just having a rough day and his teacher was tired of dealing with him.

But I am absolutely shocked that he has this mark on him and his teacher(s) didn't inform me before they left (they both left before I did). If a teacher did inflict this wound on him (and I don't really have any reason to doubt what my ds says) I don't even know where to go from here







I think I'll ask my boss to see the tape from that time frame on the playground to see exactly what was happening.

cross posted with you and other posters. i agree with the lack of teeth marks. it looks pretty bad though in the photo i really hope the teacher didn't do that to him. a slap i can almost uderstand (in general) only because its reactive. but a pinch or bite seems like you would have to deliberately done it . so terrible. so sorry for you.

can you atl least keep him in your room tomorrow? or until this gets straightened out?


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## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

I thought bite mark too. If there is a video tape, definitely watch it.


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## sunanthem (Jan 29, 2004)

I thought bite too. Or possibly a womans long fingernails, squeezing? Either way.. its soo not cool.. shouldnt they have filled out an incident report? And his teacher "was tired of him"????
You need to do some serious questioning on this mama!
I hope it all gets figured out and your son is safe in his daycare.


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## teale (Feb 20, 2009)

It looks like a "snake bite" to me. You know when you hold the arm and twist with both hands?

I'm sorry hun, this situation sounds awful, and I really think that your son is communicating that someone hurt him.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

My guess would be that the teacher tried to restrain him and the skin on his arm got pinched while she was holding it. (Though I once had a very similar mark from a back pack strap that got twisted, so it might be something completely unrelated to the teacher.)

Whether this means she was using excessive force would depend on many variables. You need to talk with the teacher to see if you think it sounds like she was acting in a way you consider reasonable. Was she restraining him b/c he was about to injure himself or others? or did she just grab him out of anger? Was her perception of danger reasonable (he was about to throw a wooden block,) or did she over react by grabbing him hard enough to leave a mark (he was just laying on the floor flailing about?) While theoretically, one should never leave a mark, it is better to grab an arm than let a child run out into traffic or dive off the top of the playground slide.

Once you talk to her, you gut should give you an idea if this was just a bad moment for both of them, or if the teacher was being abusive.


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## liliaceae (May 31, 2007)

Doesn't look like a bite to me, but I have no idea what it does look like. Is it possible a child made this mark, but the teacher did something else to him? Did he say that the teacher made the mark?


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## crl (May 9, 2004)

I thought pinch when I looked at the pictures before I read the whole post. I'm sorry.

Catherine


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
is it possible another kid did it?

I guess it's always possible, but if another kid bites him (sadly, it's happened a couple times before) I'm always told immediately. Usually they bring him down to my room for some mama love and let me know what happened.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vbactivist* 
can you atl least keep him in your room tomorrow? or until this gets straightened out?

Not really. I work in the infant room. DS is almost 6. If I was in the 2 year old room I might be able to stretch it and let him stay with me, but not if I'm in the infant room. I think the 2 teachers who are in the big kid room in the morning are going to be the regular teacher (who was there today but who is NOT the one who brought ds to my room crying and acting snotty with me) and the assistant director. I've never known the assistant director to lay a hand on a child in the almost 2 years I've been here, so I know she wouldn't allow it to happen on her watch.

DS starts school in 2 weeks. I'm trying to switch my schedule so that when he does start school, I only work when he's at school so he'll never have to go to the daycare (except for school vacations).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
If there is a video tape, definitely watch it.

I'm going to ask my director tomorrow, if she comes in. If she doesn't, I'll ask the assistant director.


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## infraread (Jun 3, 2003)

Oh poor baby!

If my child came home with that mark, I would think that the teacher did an eye-for-an-eye thing on him. It looks very much like a pinch, from a door to a playhouse maybe, or what a pp referred to as a "snake bite." I think asking to see the tape is an excellent idea. In fact, I'd insist on it. The teacher not wishing to speak to you may have been because she needed time to process the day _but_ that doesn't mean her attitude is acceptable. Would that be the case with a parent who does not work there?

Communication issues: your son spoke plain as day. Does he often tell stories or lie? I think, if he does not see that you are taking him seriously here, it will harm further attempts at communication with you.

I realize my post may sound harsh, but my little brother is on the spectrum and it colors my judgment some... he had a horrible teacher in elementary school (not the same situation, but similar enough) who was verbally, mentally, and physically abusive to him. Good luck to you, I hope you can get to the bottom of this and that he's ok


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## Mama2Bug (Feb 18, 2005)

Like the person who mentioned "snake bites," it looks like a twisted skin kind of mark to me. Like if someone grabbed his arm really hard and kind of turned their hand while doing it. Does it have tiny little dots throughout that are redder than the rest?








Poor little guy. I hope you get it figured out.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

My first thought was a pinch or a twisting injury - what a pp called a "snake bite" (never heard that term before). It doesn't look like a bite to me...same general shape - the curve - but not the same kind of mark.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liliaceae* 
Is it possible a child made this mark, but the teacher did something else to him? Did he say that the teacher made the mark?

The first question- I don't know. Since the teacher didn't say anything to me about a mark on his arm, I've not a clue what happened. For the second question- I can't get that info out of ds. He won't tell me how the teacher hurt him. He won't demonstrate on me how it happened.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunanthem* 
shouldnt they have filled out an incident report?

Yes, yes they should have. Which is what I'll be questioning tomorrow.

Quote:

And his teacher "was tired of him"????
Probably not the best way to put it but... yes. Almost 2 years later and they still don't understand ds. They got upset with him on Monday because the other kids were trying to take a nap and he was standing in the middle of the room spinning. Well.... DUH! The kid has autism. He spins. It was also a dark room (which he loves). So spinning in a dark room equals very cool for ds. But the teachers don't understand that and think ds is just being "bad".

Quote:

You need to do some serious questioning on this mama!
We've had very very few problems in the past couple years here so this is a bit of a shock to me right now. I've worked with all these employees for almost 2 years (the teacher who ds said hurt him has been working for this daycare for 7 or 8 years). I've already talked to my boss about switching my hours so I'm only working during ds's school time (which would mean ds wouldn't have to go to the daycare after school every day, which would mean he'd only really have to go on school vacations). She's going to switch my hours when she can, but it might not be right away. I need this job. I need the flexibility it offers. The economy ain't great right now so I hesitate to quit.

But on the other hand- if ds is getting hurt by a teacher here, I can't let that go on. I have to stick up for my ds and show him that mama will always protect him. Ya know?


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

I agree with an arm restraint/jerked up by the arm pinch/bruise. My mom did this to me 1,000 times, so I can remember the marks well.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephandOwen* 
The first question- I don't know. Since the teacher didn't say anything to me about a mark on his arm, I've not a clue what happened.

The teacher may not have seen it. I got a couple of those (if it's a "snake bite") when I was younger, and it took the mark a while to come up sometimes.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *infraread* 
I think, if he does not see that you are taking him seriously here, it will harm further attempts at communication with you.

This is exactly what I fear. I fear it even more with him going off to school soon (full day) where I *can't* keep an eye on him. I can't peek in on him whenever I want to. I fear if I don't stick up for him now and take him seriously, is he going to tell me if (God forbid) someone is hurting him at school?


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## Marlet (Sep 9, 2004)

I clicked the pictures and avoided skimming ahead to the background so as to remain unbias. My first thought was a pinch, like in a door (the hinges). Definitely a pinch mark. Not sure by what because it's an odd shape IMO.


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## vbactivist (Oct 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephandOwen* 
I guess it's always possible, but if another kid bites him (sadly, it's happened a couple times before) I'm always told immediately. *Usually they bring him down to my room for some mama love and let me know what happened.*

Not really. I work in the infant room. DS is almost 6. If I was in the 2 year old room I might be able to stretch it and let him stay with me, but not if I'm in the infant room. I think the 2 teachers who are in the big kid room in the morning are going to be the regular teacher (who was there today but who is NOT the one who brought ds to my room crying and acting snotty with me) and the assistant director. I've never known the assistant director to lay a hand on a child in the almost 2 years I've been here, so I know she wouldn't allow it to happen on her watch.

DS starts school in 2 weeks. I'm trying to switch my schedule so that when he does start school, I only work when he's at school so he'll never have to go to the daycare (except for school vacations).

I'm going to ask my director tomorrow, if she comes in. If she doesn't, I'll ask the assistant director.

bolded part - you know I've still been thinking about this - and i think you're right that the teacher did it - if another child did it, there would be no reason not to tellyou. and if the teacher did it under appropriate circumstances (like he was bout to ge her and she grabbed him to stop him) she ALSO would have told you/filled out an incident report. It seems like she did something she knows she shouldn't have and hoped you wouldn't find out. I'm so sorry. And i'm sorried abotu her being in charge of other children, too


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## Tilia (Nov 18, 2006)

My DD has a similiar pinch mark from daycare, but it was from another 3-year-old.


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## crl (May 9, 2004)

I asked DH, who used to be a cop, to look without giving him any information. He first said bite, then looked at it bigger and said, pinch.

Catherine


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## Swan3 (Aug 5, 2008)

My first thought was someone grabbed his arm and their fingers left the mark. I'd bring it up not to the co-workers but to a manager, saying this is the mark left on his arm and letting them know that he says a teacher hurt him.

It's a tough situation you're in, but I wouldn't keep this quiet for sure.


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## infraread (Jun 3, 2003)

Now see, I didn't mean to make you worried more about sending him to school!
First, take care of this. You're getting excellent advice in this thread. Show your son that you are his strong and amazing mama (you are!) and he will know he can tell you when something's wrong.

When he starts school, don't borrow worries. Be as active as you can at the school and make yourself known to the staff and faculty. The majority of people who work in public schools really are there because they do care about the kids. And, if you don't have an IEP in place for him yet, get one squared away asap.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Honestly the mark doesn't look like much to me. but I have really fair skinned children who could get something like that from the heat or each other so easily playing.

But the description of events really has me bothered. The fact that his teacher was too vague and wouldn't directly answer you says to me she doesn't have a good answer. Just because you work there doesn't mean she gets to dismiss you as a parent. The things your son said, 'my teacher hurt me.' make my heart hurt.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

IMO, this doesn't look like much to me. My kids (4.5 and 2.5 yo) come home with bruises, scrapes and scratches like this, and worse, all the time. And their clothes look even worse than the marks on their skin! On the plus side, mine can, and do, tell me what happened - falling in the playground, banging into a door, whatever. If something big happens, the teachers will tell us when we pick them up. Small stuff they might not even notice or mention.

It must be frustrating not having that information from your DS. Maybe the teacher saw him slam the door into the little girls fingers and she snapped. Maybe it was the little girl, or even someone else. Too much speculation. Unfortunately I am not sure you can find the answer at this point.


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## 1stimestar (Jan 15, 2005)

Looks like some one grabbed his arm and jerked him to me. And if the teachers are thinking that his normal behavior is just being bad, that really shows that they need some training in that area. I most certainly would bring it up to the director first thing in the morning. Who knows if they reuse those tapes every day. I'd insist on seeing it then and there. You need to know what happened before he is in that situation again tomorrow. Even if it wasn't the teacher that wont be there, who was it or what was it...


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

My first guess from the pix is his arm got pinched from the chain on a swing - you know how kids will spin on the swing then let it unwind? If his arm was too close as the chain unraveled, it could have gotten him. Or something like that. I don't think it looks like someone grabbed him hard; it is such an odd shape...

I wouldn't assume abuse - even with him saying his teacher hurt him. If he was hurting another child, and he is the biggest kid in that classroom, she may have "hurt him" in restraining him from whatever the physical conflict was between the kids.

My kids have said "you hurt me" or "sister hurt me" from having their fingernails cleaned/trimmed, bandaids taken off, shirt being taken off over their head that was too tight in the neck opening, a million things. Not saying you should ignore it, especially with a child who can't communicate clearly. Just saying it might be his interpretation without the specifics that would explain it.

It does sound like the other employee was frustrated, but if the staff isn't trained on what kids on the spectrum do and how to deal with that then I can see where these kind of issues will come up.

All I know is what you are telling us, and it isn't raising any red flags to me. I would directly ask that employee (after work or on break when neither of you is on the clock) to explain to you what happened so you can talk to ds about making better choices. During that discussion, you can calmly bring up what ds said about getting hurt, and you may get more info that is helpful in addressing this.

You work there. You know these people, and they know you. It would be pretty brazen to hurt your six year old with you right next door. Could happen but seems unlikely. I think asking the director to review the tapes for that day is fair.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

I recognise that kind of mark I have seen them on my dd before. It is caused by holding a childs arm in a way where it pulls the skin. Usually when you pull them when they pull away.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

It doesnt look like a bite mark to me. It looks like his arm was grabbed firmly enough to cause that mark tbh. A child could have done that or the teacher (if perhaps she was trying to pull him off someone if they were fighting)


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## fairymom (Sep 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
I recognise that kind of mark I have seen them on my dd before. It is caused by holding a childs arm in a way where it pulls the skin. Usually when you pull them when they pull away.

nak- this, seen lots on my dc from each other.also can be gotten if say a door is shut on them and they are standing too close. pinched.

sorry you and your ds are going thru this. hugs


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I'm sorry your ds had to go though this. To me, it actually looks like someone could have grabbed him and had long fingernails that bit into the skin. I hope you get it resolved and figure out what really happened.


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## annamama (Sep 23, 2005)

Looks to me like his arm was held and he, or they, twisted. That's the only way i can think you get that kind of red mark.


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## BroodyWoodsgal (Jan 30, 2008)

This is definitely a pinching mark....I think this is a classic "angry care provider" mark....somebody grabbed his arm and squeezed it, while pulling him somewhere...the way the mark looks,the sort of crazy angle to it, seems to me to indicate that the person who grabbed his arm...was grabbing UP...as in, much taller than him.

I'm not expert at all..thats what I see though. I'd be *pissed* and would want to see the tape immediately.

I also have a very fair skinned child....the sun looks at her funny and she turns red and blotchy...holding her hand for a long time will sometimes give her marks....BUT...they go away. The fact that you took a picture like that, hours after the injury would have ocurred, is horrible!

I would be more apt to say a bigger kid did it to him...were it not for the fact that he has clearly stated he was hurt by a teacher...









Poor mama and boy....I'm sorry someone lost their patience...people who hurt their own kids are puzzling to me..people who hurt OTHER PEOPLES kids make me see RED! UGH!


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## JBaxter (May 1, 2005)

That mark is from someone grabbing and squeezing his arm VERY HARD. SOMEONE needs to explain what happened to him


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## greenmamapagan (Jan 5, 2008)

I looked before I read all of your post & yep, it definitely looks like a pinch mark. I should know, I gave quite a few as a kid







. Poor kid, I hope it wasn't his teacher. I wouldn't feel safe going back if I was him & a teacher did that to me


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

I'd say either bite mark or a pinch from somebody with long fingernails. My first instinct was bite, but as I look at it more, it could be imprint from fingernails.







s


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## creekprincess (Jan 11, 2008)

So sorry this has happened to your son.

I think it looks like a pinch, and SO says the same thing.

Follow your heart mama, if you think someone hurt your child I would def. be talking to someone about it. Good luck


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

It looks like a pinch mark. Like his arm got caught in something, but I suppose it could be a plain old pinch too.


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## amandaleigh37 (Jul 13, 2006)

my first thought was fingernails...


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## aran (Feb 9, 2005)

Looks like the mark from someone holding the arm... then either the kid twists and pulls to get away, or the person twists and pulls to bring the kid closer. My DS1 got a similar mark on his shoulder when he came charging at me and I grabbed his shoulder to keep from getting bowled over. I felt terrible, though the amount of force that caused it seemed to me to be no more than lots of other times when I have had to restrain DS1 (e.g., from running into a parking lot, from trampling DS2...).


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## MoonStarFalling (Nov 4, 2004)

My kids almost never bruise so maybe they're just different but it would take a very considerable amount of force to leave a mark that red on my children. I don't think it's a result of a little play accident or another young child. Seems like it would take an angry adult to do that.


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## inkslinger (May 29, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Fuamami* 
I agree with an arm restraint/jerked up by the arm pinch/bruise. My mom did this to me 1,000 times, so I can remember the marks well.

Yep, that's what it looks like to m, too.


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## seaheroine (Dec 24, 2004)

It looks like a pinch with fingernails to me.

I'd be beyond furious...your poor baby! It definitely doesn't look like any accidental mark I've ever seen. Follow up, mama.


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## Funny Face (Dec 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama2Bug* 
Like the person who mentioned "snake bites," it looks like a twisted skin kind of mark to me. Like if someone grabbed his arm really hard and kind of turned their hand while doing it. Does it have tiny little dots throughout that are redder than the rest?








Poor little guy. I hope you get it figured out.









:

So sorry.


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## 4evermom (Feb 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama2Bug* 
Like the person who mentioned "snake bites," it looks like a twisted skin kind of mark to me. Like if someone grabbed his arm really hard and kind of turned their hand while doing it.

That's what I thought, too, and that was before reading anything. I looked at the pics before finishing the OP.


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## FondestBianca (May 9, 2008)

does NOT look like a bite at all to me. Not mouth shaped, no teeth marks, width doesn't match up. Looks like some kind of pinch combined with twisting. To me it looks as if he may have been pushed up against some sort of playground equiptment or toy that had a moving part that moved and pinched him as he was squashed into it. Perhaps a metal hinge of some sort or thin, hard plastic toy that has more than one moving part that could have pinched him at once. If this is a pinch, the strange pattern would indicate to me that he was being pinched for more than just a quick second. Long enough for him to be moving around and changing angles enough times to get such a large, strangly shaped pinched area.

OR

there are almost finger tip looking shapes (three of them) with what may possibly be fingernail gigs at the end. An adult sized hand for sure if that what it is. Someone would have had to grab HARD for that kind of mark to be made.


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## fairejour (Apr 15, 2004)

My thought was pinch too, but not from a person. More likely from a hinge, or something like that. An accident like that would also explain "Teacher hurt me".


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## j924 (May 17, 2005)

You said he was playing/pushing against a play house door and hurt someones hand. Maybe the teacher saw that grabbed his arm and either pinched him with her fingers or on the door he was leaning on. Hopefully the tape will give you some clarity.


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## ShyDaisi (Jan 22, 2007)

How did it go today?


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StephandOwen* 
To me it looks like someone pinched him on the arm really hard.










This is exactly what I thought, too, before reading the post.







I would be so upset by this.

Definitely get to the bottom of it and ask if the other teacher witnessed what happened.


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## Slabobbin (Jan 29, 2004)

Is there an update?


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## Conifer (May 4, 2009)

Judging by where it is on your son's arm, I would say that he was grabbed and maybe quickly pulled away from something or someone. My only hope would be that maybe he was pulled away from hurting someone else or himself. My son was very impulsive when he was younger and if I were to grab him quickly (to for instance keep him from running into the street) my hand may leave this mark on his skin. He was fair and had sensitive skin so it didn't take much. I am very much into GD but, heck, if I let him harm himself I may not have a kid to discipline. I would follow up on this and trust your instincts. If you feel like your child is in danger, mamas usually know best.


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## AllisonR (May 5, 2006)

What are tapes? Several people have mentioned tapes? Clueless here. Thx.


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## moondiapers (Apr 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AllisonR* 
What are tapes? Several people have mentioned tapes? Clueless here. Thx.

video surveilance tapes


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Looks like something rubbed the area, but it's not quite a rope rash.

ETA: Having just pinched two fingers very badly recently, yeah, it looks more like that. I wanted to be as unbiased as possible so I looked at the photos before reading your full post.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

I think it looks like a pinch mark, either from a person or an object (like the door to the playhouse, especially if there was roughhousing going on around it).

I would not be super quick to ascribe evil motives to the teacher though. If your son indeed was going to slam a door shut on another child's hand, sometimes reflexes take over, and honestly I probably would have pulled him away before he could do that too. I once had to push a child away from another child because he lunged towards her with his mouth wide open and ready to bite after I'd just separated him--and it was either grab his face or push his body away. I didn't leave a bruise, but frankly if he'd gone a different direction he could have fallen against something. Of course, I filled out an incident report right away, both for my protection and for the parent's information. Luckily there's a videotape at your facility, so that should bring some clarity.

This facility may not be the best place for your son, if the caregivers can't deal with his autism. I know that it's pretty much the only place for him right now it sounds like so that you can work there, and it's a convenience placement all around...but please realize that I think asking folks who are not trained in how to deal with special needs kids especially in the early childhood all day daycare setting to "get" your son is really asking too much in many pragmatic ways. I can understand their frustration, even though I think that blaming the child for that is unprofessional, as is constantly bringing him to you (since they wouldn't be doing that with any other child). When I worked in daycare I often had the occasional special needs kids that we had placed in my classroom because unlike all but 2 of the other teachers there I had a bachelors in Family and Child Development (as opposed to the AA or high school diploma that the other people had), so I'd had a minimal amount of training professionally, and had even more experience volunteering with developmentally delayed children in specific (so I was keen to learn about other special needs). But I think that's pretty unusual in a daycare. Even a high end one. Normally there is simply too much turnover and not enough training for people making minimum wage or barely over to learn how to deal with non-typical behavior. I'm not saying that it SHOULD be this way--it should not. But that may not be the reality even at your daycare.

Do you guys have a requirement in your state for continuing ed for licensing? Maybe, the director might be willing to have a speaker come in and talk about how to compassionately care for and strategies to not lose your patience/temper kids who are different from the "norm". Honestly, that does not always or exclusively apply to special needs kids--it can be helpful to go over that for children with separation anxiety, high energy, extremely passive, sensitive, ect. Or you could offer to put together something.


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## holothuroidea (Mar 30, 2008)

Someone's probably already said this but it looks like a grab and pull mark where the skin got twisted. Yes, I'm sure that did hurt.

Could you go to a day care where people are trained to work with autistic children?

What that teacher did is wrong and I hope that she receives proper consequences for it. However, I don't think it's fair to expect anyone who's not trained or doesn't have an autistic child themselves to properly handle that kind of situation.


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## Tigerchild (Dec 2, 2001)

To clarify, I'm not saying that because of your son's autism therefore it was okay for them to grab him away from another child, or that only kids who have autism do that--because that's not true...it's pretty much inevitable as a toddler or young preschool teacher you will have to physically intervene to keep from someone getting their fingers slammed in a door, hair-pulling, biting, ect.

I'm just saying that since you express concern that the teachers "don't get him" after 2 years, then that's a pretty big indicator (especially if there's been no training) that they are overwhelmed or don't know the proper stategies for dealing with all things considered quite mild behavior. At every day care center I have worked at or observed, nap time is pretty much the only more than 10-15 min break that any of the caregivers get and when they eat their lunch, so they can be protective of that time almost to an unprofessional level. I am really good at putting the professional hat on, but I too have *felt* annoyed at a child who could not be quiet and who was moving around and potentially disturbing the other kids or encouraging them to do the same.

I think someone less equipped to deal with a child who isn't interested or capable of fitting into the nice usual mode might continue to feel annoyed with the kid that's doing it. Unprofessional? Yes. Unreasonable? Yes, logically, but I can understand the emotions. Do I understand YOUR frustrations as a parent that the caregivers don't get it? I can empathize, having never been in that situation myself. But none of that really helps your son or his teacher grow the way they need to. Which is why I think training might help...though I also understand the reality is that might not be a financial possibility for your center.


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## joensally (Jun 19, 2006)

My son has sensory issues and will often say things like "Dad hurt me!" when his dad has been the slightest bit rough. Example, DS is about to stumble over something, DH grabs his arm and pulls him back to keep him from falling. If DS's sensory issues have been simmering, he'll flip out that his dad "hurt him" and blame his dad - not at all acknowledging that while it might have hurt when his dad grabbed his arm, it wasn't intended to hurt him.

This makes finding out what happened when I didn't see it so hard, because I don't know what's "fact" versus DS's hyper physical sensitivity versus DS's hyper emotional sensitivity or stuck thinking.

I don't know what it looks like, but would guess some kind of pinch. Either way, his care provider needs to provide a reasonable explanation.

(((hugs))) It's so hard when our little ones are hurting and we don't really have a sense of what transpired.

ETA: DS does this any time he's been hurt, not just with his dad, nor is his dad regularly hurting him! Realized my post might be misinterpreted.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
I'm just saying that since you express concern that the teachers "don't get him" after 2 years, then that's a pretty big indicator (especially if there's been no training) that they are overwhelmed or don't know the proper stategies for dealing with all things considered quite mild behavior.









: Also, given the teacher's response to your questions, I'd be a bit worried that they're ascribing normal behaviors to his autism. And feel like they need to "fix" him.


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## mrs*kewpie*pie (Mar 1, 2009)

based on the info you had i would think his arm must have gotten piched in the door of the playhouse somehow. or maybe one of the other kids, maybe the one who's fingers got pinched hurt him back before the teacher could intervene.

i wouldn't assume the teacher had done anything wrong, just maybe wasn't right there and didn't see the situation devolping in time to prevent it. though i would be upset that she didn't seem to wantto discuss it at all.

the mark looks like hinges to me though.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Quote:

They got upset with him on Monday because the other kids were trying to take a nap and he was standing in the middle of the room spinning
I know you need to work, but this doesn't sound like a good environment for a child with autism.


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## StephandOwen (Jun 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Conifer* 
Judging by where it is on your son's arm, I would say that he was grabbed and maybe quickly pulled away from something or someone. My only hope would be that maybe he was pulled away from hurting someone else or himself.

Trust me- I can understand this. If ds had been about to hurt himself or someone else and a teacher needed to quickly intervene and grabbed him to get him out of the way.... fine. It's NOT okay to leave a mark like that, but at least it explains it. I would fully expect, in that situation, to be told about it. Even a quick "Hey- your ds was about to (insert whatever) so I had to grab him away. I grabbed harder than I thought so it might have left a mark". Still- not acceptable. But at least it would explain it. I got no such explanation.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tigerchild* 
This facility may not be the best place for your son, if the caregivers can't deal with his autism. I know that it's pretty much the only place for him right now it sounds like so that you can work there, and it's a convenience placement all around...*but please realize that I think asking folks who are not trained in how to deal with special needs kids especially in the early childhood all day daycare setting to "get" your son is really asking too much in many pragmatic ways.*

I talked to my boss before I was hired about ds's special needs. I made it very clear that if they didn't think they could handle it, don't hire me. I've had talks with my boss many times over the last couple years asking if ds was getting to be too much or if they didn't think they could handle him. She ALWAYS assures me that he's fine, the teachers can deal with him, no problem. The 2 teachers who were in his room yesterday have been at this daycare for about 8-10 years. They've had special needs kids in there before. They've had training on special needs, autism in particular. I'm not just throwing him in a room with a high school senior out to make a couple bucks.

Quote:

Do you guys have a requirement in your state for continuing ed for licensing?
Yes. We all take a certain number of classes every year (last year was 5, this year it's 7). We usually all take the classes together. Last year was a class on autism specifically. This year I know the majority of the workers took a class on sensory issues. While they are in NO WAY experts on autism or sensory issues, they do have *some* training. They also know they can come ask me at any time if they need help or if they just want to know how to handle something. His one teacher (the main teacher) is really good about asking me how to do something or why ds is doing something.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *holothuroidea* 
Could you go to a day care where people are trained to work with autistic children?

If I could find a daycare like that, I'd be in heaven







Unfortunately, no. There is one daycare/preschool that is attached to a rehab hospital here. DS has gone there for therapy for almost 2 years. I applied for a job there (at the daycare/preschool), and would have had it, but was told my ds couldn't come. Why? Not because they didn't want a mother/child pair there but because of his autism. Yup, they came right out and said they didn't think they could handle him. WTF?!? This was at a place that catered to therapy for special needs children and my son with autism wasn't welcome. I told them to kiss my a$$ when they suggested I put ds in another daycare to go work for them









As for an update.... when I went in this morning I talked to the regular teacher in his room. She said she has no idea how he got that mark. So I talked to the assistant director and she too had no idea. She said it wasn't on him, that she knew of, when she left at 3:00. The other teacher who was in there yesterday wasn't there today and won't be back until next week (she only works at the daycare 2 days a week). The assistant director said she would call and leave a message on that teachers voice mail but she was working all day at another job. The director/owner is gone until Tuesday on a trip but her husband was there today so I talked to him about it. He agreed that it is not acceptable at all to leave a mark on a child. It is completely unacceptable to do that and then not even tell the parent about it or how it happened. He was shocked to see the mark and doesn't know how it got there or why. He said they will definitely talk to the other teacher by tomorrow. If I'm not satisfied with the answer that teacher has, the owner will review the tapes with me to see if we can figure out what happened.

There are cameras everywhere in the daycare- each room, the playground, by the front door, etc. There are a few places where there is not a camera, but not many.

As I said previously- I am trying to change my schedule so that I only work when ds is at school (which starts the week after next). Then ds won't have to go to the daycare. I fully realize this is not the best environment for ds. I realize he's getting overstimulated, especially with these long days. He's frustrated. His teachers are frustrated. It's not a good situation. I'm trying my best to fix it, but I need money to pay the bills too.


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