# hypothetical question - car vs. airplane lap baby



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Okay- this is a hypothetical. I volunteer with an organization for which I need to travel once or twice a year. For a lot of reasons, the family is a package deal and we all go.

That said, prices of airfare are skyrocketing. And we don't live close to any of the places we need to go.

SO- if you were going on the trip, no matter what, and your choices were driving (let's say 15-18 hours in the car) or flying with a lap baby, what would you choose and why?

Statistically, I realize that flying with a seat for everyone is safest. Statistically, NEXT safest would be flying with a lap baby. Then driving (with everyone properly restrained of course) would be the least safe.

All other factors aside.... (the hassle of a long car-trip with kids etc)

JUST safety-wise- which would you choose? Long car trip? Or infant/toddler lap child on an airplane?

-Angela


----------



## Aries1985 (Feb 29, 2008)

Well considering my dd is not a fan of the car and I'd rather do just about anything other than take a long drive with her, I'd go for the plane with the lap baby.


----------



## cocoabean8 (May 23, 2004)

Lap baby


----------



## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Lap baby.


----------



## jjawm (Jun 17, 2007)

lap baby


----------



## Altair (May 1, 2005)

Lap baby. 15-18 hours sounds torturous with 2 kids! As long as the total time involved in airline travel wasn't close to that, I'd do the airplane.

Unless, it was an easy ride to make a bunch of stops and we could afford to do it the over 2 days and do some sight-seeing on the way to break up the ride.


----------



## bodhicitta3 (Jun 19, 2006)

lap baby!


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Lap baby, as much as it makes me cringe to type that.


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Would driving 18 hours each way even be any cheaper than the airfare? I can't imagine it would be particularly safe to spend a long time driving with unhappy (driver-distracting) kids in the back.


----------



## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I would do the lap baby as well.

Not that I know the statistics but I'd guess that a short flight (w/out a car seat) is less risky than a long drive (w/car seats, of course).


----------



## sadean (Nov 20, 2001)

Lap baby.

Been there, done that both ways and flying would be my preference.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Lap baby, as much as it makes me cringe to type that.

I was hoping you'd weigh in...







I hope it doesn't come to that... for baby and money reasons we've not been in what will be 2 years by the next time... and of course this year is the most expensive site to GET to. Sigh. Here's hoping for great airfare deals.

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
Would driving 18 hours each way even be any cheaper than the airfare? I can't imagine it would be particularly safe to spend a long time driving with unhappy (driver-distracting) kids in the back.

WAY cheaper than the airfare







Airfare for 4. Right now the best flights are $500+ a head.

-Angela


----------



## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

We're flying with DS as a lap child on Wednesday. DP's parents bought us seats with frequent flyer miles, and a separate seat for DS was just not in the cards. It worked out well for them since it's a week before his 2nd birthday.

I know it's not ideal. But there's no way we're going to drive from Toronto to Oklahoma. DP's parents have a Nautilus for us to use while we're there, and I've got a CARES harness for DS should a spare seat happen to be open on the flight.

Really, even though we all know that flying with a lap child isn't the saf_est_ option, I think that there are many worse choices people could make as parents.


----------



## Tilia (Nov 18, 2006)

I would drive. I haven't been on an airplane trip when my and DD's flights were on time. Granted, I never had any help and it was just me and her. It was such a hassle. I flew about 6 times from when she was 8 months to 20 months. One time I got stranded at the Denver airport until 3 in the morning. Not fun.

I like the control of driving, but I love road trips. I plan out stops to include parks or fun things for DD to do along the way. She is super good in the car, so it is and easy choice for me.

I probably won't fly again for who knows how long. She is almost 3, no more lap baby. I really can't afford a ticket for me, much less for both of us. Plus the hassle and stress.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Right now I'm really just analyzing the safety aspect.







Flying is faster, but has its own hassles. Driving is cheaper, but has its own hassles.

Just looking at safety....









-Angela


----------



## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Just looking at safety....









Really and for the most part, it's unlikely that you would get into either a car or a plane accident on your trip. If you get into a car accident, might you get hurt even with everyone restrained - yep. In the case of a plane crash/accident, might your child get hurt as a lap child - yep. In the case of a plane crash/accident, might your child get hurt even with everyone restrained - yep.

You know the stats. Would I fly with a lap child? Not if I could avoid it. But I've done it once before and I'm going to do it again.


----------



## alysmommy2004 (Jun 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Lap baby, as much as it makes me cringe to type that.









:


----------



## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Lap baby. I couldn't even imagine making my kids sit in car seats for 12 hours when they were small.


----------



## UberMama (Feb 27, 2007)

Lap baby. Though I'd try anything I could to get the babe his/her own seat. But if not possible, statistically I'd feel more comfy with a lab baby vs. 15 hours in a car (properly restrained the entire way).


----------



## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

The statistics I've seen (which I don't have at hand) all make it clear that planes have so many fewer accident per mile that there's no question that lap baby is the safer choice.

My brother, the pilot, says the reason why the FAA doesn't require carseats for babies and toddler is that they worry that the extra cost of the seat would push some families over the edge and make them drive, thus putting them at greater risk.

I'm not sure I buy that that's the real reasoning -- I suspect it has to do with airplane lobbyists and profit, but I can see why he thinks it.


----------



## akwifeandmomma (Aug 13, 2005)

Lap baby, no question.


----------



## AndrewsMother (Jul 30, 2007)

Lap baby!!

I would drive if and only if both children were under the age of one, as my DS sleeps well in a car, and I can change diapers in the car and someone could sit in the back to feed them without stopping.

Otherwise There is NO way I would or could drive 15 to 18 hours with a toddler. I just don't have the patience.


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

I don't know, we just did a very long drive (2200 miles) with both kids and they were fabulous. We left at 8 pm so they could both sleep all night so we got a good 14 hours of straight driving before we stopped for breakfast and a long break. DD1 never had a problem but DD2 did get a bit bored after the 3rd day in the car.

Flying with both of the kids has never been a problem either, though.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Thanks all. Again, hopefully I can swing airfares decent enough that it's not an issue. Just a hypothetical I've been toying with.

Anyone else with thoughts is welcome to weigh in.

-Angela


----------



## tabrizia (Oct 24, 2007)

Lap Baby no question. I would prefer a seat for everyone but if it isn't possible I would do a lap baby over a 15 to 18 hour car ride any day. I've dealt with a lap baby before and I'll likely end up dealing with one again once DD arrives, so as much as I prefer a seat for everyone flying is just so much easier for traveling those distances.


----------



## Love_My_Bubba (Jul 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
Lap baby, as much as it makes me cringe to type that.









: I can't believe I'm saying this but I gree with the lap baby thing. 16 hours in a car sounds like torture--for you and the kid!


----------



## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

Lap baby.

IF you are statistically more likely to be in a car accident than a plane crash/accident, then 15-18 hours in a car is exposing you and your family to more of a risk than 4 hours of air travel.


----------



## JennaW (Oct 11, 2007)

Lap baby. Also, have you tried www.kayak.com ? I have found that to be a helpful site.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

No way of taking the train? It'd probably be longer than driving, but then you wouldn't have to deal with all the stopping that car travel with a LO entails.


----------



## ErikaG (Nov 12, 2005)

I'd fly, but I'd do it at less crowded times and hope that we'd be able to get seats.


----------



## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Lap baby.

We recently looked at the cost of train travel for my SIL to come out here. She's in Austin, TX and we're in Albuquerque, NM. It was going to cost $351 one way for a train ticket that would take her through Illinois or to go to Los Angeles and then back to Albuquerque. The plane ticket was $250 one way. Sometimes it can be cheaper to travel by train, but it really depends on where you are located and where you are going.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sapphire_chan* 
No way of taking the train? It'd probably be longer than driving, but then you wouldn't have to deal with all the stopping that car travel with a LO entails.











No, you can't get anywhere on a train from here.

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Thing is we're heading for Ames, IA...







Fly into Des Moines. Not a lot of choices. And with the big tournament going in, there are no empty flights. It's very difficult to even get a direct flight, we'll probably be changing planes somewhere. Sigh.

But mostly, it's expensive.

-Angela


----------



## sarafi (Feb 10, 2008)

I actually do the "lap baby" thing also, but wanted to add that when you look at safety of air vs. car travel it is a little misleading to just look at accident rates.

Turbulance can be a huge issue, and it can get rough enough that you could lose your grip on a lap baby, if you haven't purchased a lap seat harness.

Two of my friends are flight attendants and both think I am horrible to fly with a lap baby--they have seen too much to be comfortable doing so themselves.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarafi* 
I actually do the "lap baby" thing also, but wanted to add that when you look at safety of air vs. car travel it is a little misleading to just look at accident rates.

Turbulance can be a huge issue, and it can get rough enough that you could lose your grip on a lap baby, if you haven't purchased a lap seat harness.

Two of my friends are flight attendants and both think I am horrible to fly with a lap baby--they have seen too much to be comfortable doing so themselves.

I know that turbulence is the real issue on a plane. Unfortunately the FAA hasn't approved any harnesses for use in the US (at altitude you can, but then a sling or carrier could work as well...)

-Angela


----------



## roxyrox (Sep 11, 2006)

Lap baby! (or would he be able to get a sky-cot?)

Just a thought though - if you didn't buy a seat for him would it not be likely that there would be a seat free for him when you check in? I flew quite a lot with my ds when he was under 2 and only once did he not get a seat of his own. IME they only fill up the seats next to kids if the absoloutley have to!


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roxyrox* 
Lap baby! (or would he be able to get a sky-cot?)

Just a thought though - if you didn't buy a seat for him would it not be likely that there would be a seat free for him when you check in? I flew quite a lot with my ds when he was under 2 and only once did he not get a seat of his own. IME they only fill up the seats next to kids if the absoloutley have to!

They don't have sky cots on domestic flights in the US.

There will be no free seats. All the flights will be full to overbooked.

-Angela


----------



## Eclipsepearl (May 20, 2007)

I'm a former Flight Attendand and I just wanted to clear up two misconceptions.

_I know that turbulence is the real issue on a plane. Unfortunately the FAA hasn't approved any harnesses for use in the US_

...and they never will because it's super-dangerous to have a baby attached to you for take-off and landing. If you don't believe me, look at this video, which I will admit is a bit more informative if you understand German, but there is a dramatic demo so keep watching;

http://www.sf.tv/sf1/kassensturz/man...0080520-gurten

_They don't have sky cots on domestic flights in the US._

Not true. There are a very few, few and far between... but they're out there on specific airlines and aircraft.

For the record, I did have to make this choice more than once, for a variety of reasons. Foreign airlines that didn't allow my U.S. car seat (and I was forced to check it-boo!) One Irish airline doesn't allow car seat _at all_. Twice, we simply booked too late and I could get a seat but my ds couldn't. Twice, we flew charter companies that were package bookings and additional seats weren't possible (foreign airline anyway). I could have taken the train a few of those times but it would have been loooooong. We recently got a high-speed train and I haven't looked back since.

We book a seat and bring the car seat, when it's allowed and possible but I have flown with a lap baby when we didn't have any options.

Air travel is safe. Lap babies are not protected in an emergency but there is little chance of that happening. It doesn't bother me as long as it's an _informed_ decision, which it is, I believe, for the OP and the majority (all?) of you.

Sharon
F/A 13 years, 2 companies
3 breastfed bilingual, dual national babies

http://flyingwithchildren.blogspot.com


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Thanks for the info! I do understand the physics issues with a baby strapped to you. Interesting to hear that there are sky cots on some domestic flights! I suspect that even if it were an option, ds would be too big.







He's 22lbs now at nearly 6 months and the trip will be in May.

-Angela


----------



## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

While airline travel *is* safer _in general_ than car seat travel, I think the dangers for a lap baby are hugely increased. Those who work in the industry have been begging for YEARS to require seats for infants and toddlers because they've seen what can happen.

If the law were that you *had* to have a seat (and car seat) for Gregory, would you drive or would you scrape up the money for the ticket and fly? Once you answer that question, you'll probably have your answer


----------



## lalaland42 (Mar 12, 2006)

I would just stay home if I couldn't buy a seat for all my kids. I have been in horrible turbulence with DD as a lap baby and pigs would fly before I would do that again. No charity work is worth my child's safety.

What charity work do you do that takes you across the country? Sounds interesting.







:


----------



## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katheek77* 
If the law were that you *had* to have a seat (and car seat) for Gregory, would you drive or would you scrape up the money for the ticket and fly? Once you answer that question, you'll probably have your answer

That is the best point I've read on this thread.

My guy was 17 months and probably in the 25 lb range, and we did lap baby from Seattle to San Diego, and I would never ever EVER do it again! Do you know how EXHAUSTING it is to hold a heavy kid for an entire flight?

Hubby couldn't help b/c he has a belly and no lap, so there was nowhere for DS to be on him while sitting on the airplane. So it was all on me. My arms were shaking after an hour, and they were sore for almost 2 days after, even though I was VERY used to holding him all the time. Even when he nursed and fell asleep it was difficult, b/c my legs are short and to give my arms a break and keep him on my lap I had to have my feet up on tiptoe.

NOT fun.

Man, you don't have any fun airlines for your flight, do you? None that offer credit back at no charge if the price goes down at all. Good luck with your decision!


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katheek77* 
While airline travel *is* safer _in general_ than car seat travel, I think the dangers for a lap baby are hugely increased. Those who work in the industry have been begging for YEARS to require seats for infants and toddlers because they've seen what can happen.

If the law were that you *had* to have a seat (and car seat) for Gregory, would you drive or would you scrape up the money for the ticket and fly? Once you answer that question, you'll probably have your answer

It totally depends on where prices are. With 4 of us every little bit makes a difference. There *is* a price break at which it would mean driving rather than a 4th ticket if it came down to it.

My question is whether the driving would actually be more risky.

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lalaland42* 
I would just stay home if I couldn't buy a seat for all my kids. I have been in horrible turbulence with DD as a lap baby and pigs would fly before I would do that again. No charity work is worth my child's safety.

What charity work do you do that takes you across the country? Sounds interesting.







:

Yeah, but this is a big deal for me. It's "volunteer" in that I don't get paid, but it's also a big social outlet for me and friends I've had for years.

Not exactly what I'd call "charity" work, but I work with

www.odysseyofthemind.org







Great program.

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkybean* 
That is the best point I've read on this thread.

My guy was 17 months and probably in the 25 lb range, and we did lap baby from Seattle to San Diego, and I would never ever EVER do it again! Do you know how EXHAUSTING it is to hold a heavy kid for an entire flight?

Hubby couldn't help b/c he has a belly and no lap, so there was nowhere for DS to be on him while sitting on the airplane. So it was all on me. My arms were shaking after an hour, and they were sore for almost 2 days after, even though I was VERY used to holding him all the time. Even when he nursed and fell asleep it was difficult, b/c my legs are short and to give my arms a break and keep him on my lap I had to have my feet up on tiptoe.

NOT fun.

Man, you don't have any fun airlines for your flight, do you? None that offer credit back at no charge if the price goes down at all. Good luck with your decision!

Yeah, that is a factor. Though dh would be there and is an angel about such things and would happily hold ds the whole time if I needed him to...









I don't relish doing a lap child, but just weighing the options.

-Angela


----------



## katheek77 (Mar 13, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
It totally depends on where prices are. With 4 of us every little bit makes a difference. There *is* a price break at which it would mean driving rather than a 4th ticket if it came down to it.

My question is whether the driving would actually be more risky.

-Angela

Honestly, I'd go into it as a "Do I drive or do I fly?" and assume you _will_ be buying 4 tickets.

I mean, if the airline personnel are lobbying for car seats, I'm going to guess there is a reason for it (namely, dangerous turbulence, and what not).

If it were something like a funeral, and you didn't have time to drive there, and didn't have the money, then, I understand the whole lap child thing. But, in a case where I have months to plan ahead, and a viable alternative(s) - in this case, saving the extra money or driving - I guess I just wouldn't be comfortable having an lap infant, especially for a social outlet event for me.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *katheek77* 
Honestly, I'd go into it as a "Do I drive or do I fly?" and assume you _will_ be buying 4 tickets.

I mean, if the airline personnel are lobbying for car seats, I'm going to guess there is a reason for it (namely, dangerous turbulence, and what not).

If it were something like a funeral, and you didn't have time to drive there, and didn't have the money, then, I understand the whole lap child thing. But, in a case where I have months to plan ahead, and a viable alternative(s) - in this case, saving the extra money or driving - I guess I just wouldn't be comfortable having an lap infant, especially for a social outlet event for me.

Right- and I may decide ahead of time- hence my questions as to if safety is a factor. If it's *safer* to fly even with a lap-baby, then that will be part of the pro-flying instead of driving side. Make sense?

I know, without a doubt, that flying with baby in a carseat is safer than NOT in a carseat.

I also know that driving is MORE dangerous than flying.

So the question is, is driving MORE dangerous than flying with a lap baby.... and I don't know those stats.

I mean, if I decided I couldn't afford 4 tickets and would therefore drive because it's not safe to fly with a lap baby, perhaps that's not an honest evaluation if driving is still more risky than flying with a lap baby- make sense?

And it's not just a "social outlet event for me"







truly. That's a big bonus, but in many ways this is basically an extended family, a commitment we've made, AND the only vacations we take









-Angela


----------



## Trillian (Nov 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Statistically, I realize that flying with a seat for everyone is safest. Statistically, NEXT safest would be flying with a lap baby. Then driving (with everyone properly restrained of course) would be the least safe.

[...]

JUST safety-wise- which would you choose?

It seems like you've already answered your own question. If safety is the only consideration, why would you choose something other than the safest choice? Maybe I don't understand what this post is asking for.


----------



## LaffNowCryLater (May 2, 2003)

I'm sure you will make the right decision, I know these economic times are rough








Here is something I remember you saying in the past, when I was researching this same subject, that totally made sense to me about the dangers.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
There IS a hugely *increased* danger. Those who work in the industry have been begging for YEARS to require seats for infants and toddlers because they've seen what can happen.

But they won't require it because they are concerned that the increased cost would encourage people to drive instead.

-Angela

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...0&postcount=17


----------



## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

I've done lap baby, but I'm pretty lax about car seats -- I"ve used Century even if I could have scrounged up the money for Britax. A seat advocate like yourself, I'm surprised you'd even consider this question. I think you once even recommended me to not do the lap baby thing in an airplane, citing terrible injury risks!

but yeah, personally I've carried a baby on my lap.


----------



## Jes'sBeth (Aug 30, 2004)

lap baby.

There's no way I'd drive that long with 2 kids in the car. Our 7 hr drive to my Mom's place with a 3 yr old and 3 month old was a 10 hr ordeal. It SUCKED! But then our 3 yr old is NOT good in the car (never has been) She wouldn't nap because she was too excited to see Grandma and our little one was great until an hour from my Mom's place at which point she had had ENOUGH and cried. We stopped twice to change and feed but she wasn't hungry anymore and didn't need a new diaper. Eventually she cried for 20 mins and wore herself out. I was a HORRIBLE driver for those 20 minutes. We were all crying and stressed. Seriously... it was horrendous. I would definately take a flight with a child in my arms (it's got to be a reasonably short flight) over an 18 hr car trip (because that could easily be 24 hrs in a car plus stops... add a hotel room in there for a night because you had better be sleeping if you want to be safe) and is it really going to be a lot cheaper (hmmm, actually yes, it probably would be)

I just wouldn't do the long drive. (we LOVE taking the train but for sure it doesn't go everywhere...)


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Trillian* 
It seems like you've already answered your own question. If safety is the only consideration, why would you choose something other than the safest choice? Maybe I don't understand what this post is asking for.

The question is what IS the safest choice? I know that flying is safer than driving *in general* I don't know -statistically- if it's still safer for the lap baby to be on a plane rather than in a car....

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaffNowCryLater* 
I'm sure you will make the right decision, I know these economic times are rough








Here is something I remember you saying in the past, when I was researching this same subject, that totally made sense to me about the dangers.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...0&postcount=17

Yeah. I'm a huge proponent of flying with a carseat. Which is why my first gut instinct was that if we couldn't afford 4 plane tickets, just to drive instead.

Then I second guessed my own risk analysis. I truly don't know which of the choices is safer...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *simonee* 
A seat advocate like yourself, I'm surprised you'd even consider this question.

Exactly. Which is why my first reaction was -well, if we can't afford 4 tickets, we'll just drive.

Then I stopped and thought some more.

Maybe driving is a MORE risky choice...

I just don't know....

-Angela


----------



## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

If someone else asked this question, your advice would be not to go, to not compromise the child's security for any needs. I used to do that, when I lived in an ivory tower and had an opinion about everything as long as it hadn't affected me









For your integrity, you should eat beans and rice for two weeks and then buy the extra ticket, or drive. For peace of mind and convenience, you should probably do the lap baby thing, but then promise you'll be more understanding toward people here with similar dilemmas


----------



## simonee (Nov 21, 2001)

duplicate


----------



## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

Obviously flying is safer for 3 out of 4 family members. The question is, is driving safer for that 1 family member. Can you compromise the safety of 3 family members for 1 family member, or compromise the safety of 1 family member for the other 3. Tough questions..there is no right answer.

I think this is just something where you have to go with your "gut". My instinct is that flying with the lap baby is safer (even for the baby) than driving. Driving is going to put everyone at a slight risk for the 30 hours of driving. Flying is only going to put the baby at a slight risk for a much shorter period of time. I also tend to think that car accidents are more likely to occur than "really, bad, turbulance..the kinds that would be dangerous to the baby"..but I don't know the statistics on that.

Does turbulance have anything to do with weather? Could you consult a farmer's almanac for that week and see if they are predicting "rain/wind or sunny/calm weather" the farmer's almanac isn't a great predictor, but I tend to think it is as good as anything else. LOL

Of course, you have several months...so you could always try your darndest to save up the $$ for an extra seat....get a credit card with frequent flyer miles and then charge all your groceries/gas/etc on it each month (and pay off in full each month). You might earn enough for an extra seat....or just try to sell stuff/earn extra money in the next few months.

Really...everything is a risk. Just going is a risk/benefit analysis. You obviously feel that the benefit outweights the risk, so you need to just accept that there is some risk involved in your decision to go, accept that risk, choose the method of transportation which fits your needs (monetary needs/length of travel time, etc) best and then move on.


----------



## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

I think either choice (driving or flying w/ lap baby) would be perfectly safe, statistically speaking, but I think flying with a lap baby would absolutely be safer, no question.

Car crashes are the #1 killer of kids, but even still the chance of having your child die in a car crash is incredibly small.

I personally HATE flying, so I'm not sure what I would choose. But if statistical safety is your #1 concern, I definitely think flying is the way to go.

Lex


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *simonee* 
If someone else asked this question, your advice would be not to go, to not compromise the child's security for any needs. I used to do that, when I lived in an ivory tower and had an opinion about everything as long as it hadn't affected me









For your integrity, you should eat beans and rice for two weeks and then buy the extra ticket, or drive. For peace of mind and convenience, you should probably do the lap baby thing, but then promise you'll be more understanding toward people here with similar dilemmas









Actually, I would have advised driving. Not not going. I'm just second guessing my own advice.

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ameliabedelia* 
Obviously flying is safer for 3 out of 4 family members. The question is, is driving safer for that 1 family member. Can you compromise the safety of 3 family members for 1 family member, or compromise the safety of 1 family member for the other 3. Tough questions..there is no right answer.

Right- what I'm really asking I guess is which IS safer for the baby... and I don't know the answer or how to find it.

Quote:

I think this is just something where you have to go with your "gut". My instinct is that flying with the lap baby is safer (even for the baby) than driving. Driving is going to put everyone at a slight risk for the 30 hours of driving. Flying is only going to put the baby at a slight risk for a much shorter period of time. I also tend to think that car accidents are more likely to occur than "really, bad, turbulance..the kinds that would be dangerous to the baby"..but I don't know the statistics on that.

Does turbulance have anything to do with weather? Could you consult a farmer's almanac for that week and see if they are predicting "rain/wind or sunny/calm weather" the farmer's almanac isn't a great predictor, but I tend to think it is as good as anything else. LOL

Of course, you have several months...so you could always try your darndest to save up the $$ for an extra seat....get a credit card with frequent flyer miles and then charge all your groceries/gas/etc on it each month (and pay off in full each month). You might earn enough for an extra seat....or just try to sell stuff/earn extra money in the next few months.

Really...everything is a risk. Just going is a risk/benefit analysis. You obviously feel that the benefit outweights the risk, so you need to just accept that there is some risk involved in your decision to go, accept that risk, choose the method of transportation which fits your needs (monetary needs/length of travel time, etc) best and then move on.








Which is probably what will end up happening in the end.... but I'm still months out, so in the info gathering stage









-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lexbeach* 
I think either choice (driving or flying w/ lap baby) would be perfectly safe, statistically speaking, but I think flying with a lap baby would absolutely be safer, no question.

Car crashes are the #1 killer of kids, but even still the chance of having your child die in a car crash is incredibly small.

I personally HATE flying, so I'm not sure what I would choose. But if statistical safety is your #1 concern, I definitely think flying is the way to go.

Lex









Thanks... that's what I was thinking when I stopped to analyze it... And it's possible that even the cost of 3 tickets will be too much and we'll drive anyway... just remains to be seen.

I have to roll things around in my head for awhile....

-Angela


----------



## Trillian (Nov 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
The question is what IS the safest choice? I know that flying is safer than driving *in general* I don't know -statistically- if it's still safer for the lap baby to be on a plane rather than in a car....

-Angela

Yes, per mile traveled it is significantly safer to fly, even as a lap baby.


----------



## Trillian (Nov 21, 2006)

Some numbers I dug up and posted elsewhere:

Quote:

During 1981 to Nov 1996, there were 252 reports of turbulence affecting major air carriers and 863 passengers received minor injuries, 63 received serious injuries and 2 passengers died.

2 deaths over a 15-year period? Over 750 million people are expected to fly in an airplane this year alone... That means about 10 billion passengers flew during that 15-year period, giving a death rate of 0.2 per billion.

But just to be thorough, the rate of serious injury is 63 per 11.25 billion passengers, or about 6 per billion. Compare that to the rate of death of young children in car accidents, which is about 5 per 100 000 per year, or 50 000 per billion. And that is just deaths, not injuries. Anyone who would refuse to fly without a car seat yet would ever put their child in a car (even with a car seat) is being hypocritical, because the former is safer by many orders of magnitude.


----------



## Trillian (Nov 21, 2006)

Some more detail on how to interpret those numbers:

Quote:

The statistics I found show that there is a death rate of children in car accidents of 5/100 000/year. The best statistics I could find on airline turbulence deaths was 0.2/billion boardings, for all passengers, including both adults and infants. Note that since we are interested in car seat-preventable deaths, I am not going to look at the death rate from airplane crashes, where being in a car seat is not likely to be the determining factor in survival.

So to make these numbers comparable, you should first convert both statistics to either deaths per trip or deaths per mile travelled. For a very rough guess, say the average kid travels somewhat more than 10 miles/day by car, so 5000 miles/year, and the average plane flight is 1000 miles. So the numbers become 1 car accident death per 100 million miles vs 0.2 air turbulence deaths per trillion miles.

Now, we know infants are in more danger than adults in air turbulence. How much more? 10x? 100x? Let's go with 100x, which would mean infants suffer 20 air turbulence deaths per trillion miles. These numbers, which I think are fairly generous, bring the difference in death rate down to 1:2000. (Please check my math!)

I think it is reasonable to assume that most children traveling in cars are restrained, while most children traveling by air are not. (At least that is my experience.) *So these numbers suggest that, mile per mile, air travel WITHOUT a car seat is 2000x safer than car travel WITH a car seat.*


----------



## RomanGoddess (Mar 16, 2006)

Don't know when you will be traveling but I would never put a baby under 6 months for 15+ hours in a carseat. His poor spine. I think those bucket seats are meant for two hours max. Even with lots of breaks in between, it can't be good.

Definitely lap baby in plane.


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Thanks for the stats!

-Angela


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RomanGoddess* 
Don't know when you will be traveling but I would never put a baby under 6 months for 15+ hours in a carseat. His poor spine. I think those bucket seats are meant for two hours max. Even with lots of breaks in between, it can't be good.

Definitely lap baby in plane.

It'll be late May, so he'll be nearly a year. And he's been out of his bucket and in a cushy boulevard since about 2 months









-Angela


----------



## AutumnAir (Jun 10, 2008)

Bit late to this - but another vote for a lap baby here.
I've done it before and will do it again. Partly because I can't really afford to buy the extra seat (it's all I can do to get the money together for my own seat home). Partly (and probably most pertinently) because I live in Europe and travel to Ireland. Remember the PP commenting about an Irish airline that wouldn't allow car seats at all? Well, that's how I get home. Even if I wanted to take another airline, there are no guidelines, rules or laws in Europe as to car seats on planes, so I would likely have to buy a number of different car seats in the hope that one of them might be allowed on the plane I happen to be taking. And partly because DD absolutely hates with a burning passion being in a car seat and would scream non-stop the whole 2.5 hours home. I'd bet that they'd probably have to have an emergency landing along the way to kick us off. She's much happier being held by me, and so are the other 200? passengers!
And I'm quite convinced that air travel, with or without a car seat, is far far safer than car travel.


----------



## mamaverdi (Apr 5, 2005)

Strictly from personal experience flying, that of my dh, and my friends (who fly weekly), I think turbulence is more likely than a car accident.

I'm not sure statistically it's actually easily comparable. You would need data in which lap babies (less than 2 years old) were in an airplane during turbulence. That does not seem to be how the data is reported.

I've been on numerous flights, and only a couple did not have incidences of turbulence.

I'm certainly far out-numbered, but I find it much more predictable that I would not have a car accident than that random turbulence would not happen.

We've driven almost 5000 miles with my boys in one trip and 3000 miles in another. Some parts were boring, but mostly it was really fun.







We had a DVD player, DS games, books, songs, food, and we usually left early in the morning, sleeping when it was near dinner time (so not driving "off-traffic" times).


----------



## lexbeach (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaverdi* 
Strictly from personal experience flying, that of my dh, and my friends (who fly weekly), I think turbulence is more likely than a car accident.

I'm not sure statistically it's actually easily comparable. You would need data in which lap babies (less than 2 years old) were in an airplane during turbulence. That does not seem to be how the data is reported.

I've been on numerous flights, and only a couple did not have incidences of turbulence.

I'm certainly far out-numbered, but I find it much more predictable that I would not have a car accident than that random turbulence would not happen.

We've driven almost 5000 miles with my boys in one trip and 3000 miles in another. Some parts were boring, but mostly it was really fun.







We had a DVD player, DS games, books, songs, food, and we usually left early in the morning, sleeping when it was near dinner time (so not driving "off-traffic" times).

Well, sure, *some* turbulence has happened on most every flight I've been on. But I think the dangerous kind of turbulence, the kind that requires passengers to go into the emergency position, or that causes parents to lose hold of their lap babies is much, much less likely. Especially these days when the pilots have the technology to "see" where the turbulence is and avoid it (by flying higher or lower or taking a different route). I don't think I've ever been on a flight that DIDN'T have a lap baby on it. If lap babies were getting hurt in any significant number, we'd definitely be hearing about it.

Lex


----------



## mamaverdi (Apr 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lexbeach* 
Well, sure, *some* turbulence has happened on most every flight I've been on. But I think the dangerous kind of turbulence, the kind that requires passengers to go into the emergency position, or that causes parents to lose hold of their lap babies is much, much less likely. Especially these days when the pilots have the technology to "see" where the turbulence is and avoid it (by flying higher or lower or taking a different route). I don't think I've ever been on a flight that DIDN'T have a lap baby on it. If lap babies were getting hurt in any significant number, we'd definitely be hearing about it.

Of all the many flights I've taken, only 3 had lap children.







I think when/where/what time you fly makes a huge difference.

I do agree we'd hear about it in significant numbers...but I don't agree that turbulence has to be severe to lose hold of someone wiggly.

I've had my drinks spill all over me, seen cart slam into a flight attendant, almost fallen over walking back from the bathroom...and I really don't fly that much anymore.

Back in the day, when I did fly more, and surveying my friends and family who fly frequently: most trips, no lap children (business or off-hours) and most trips some turbulence.









Obviously, YMMV.

Eta: I'm not saying I'm being objective. I am saying, I don't think the data is very easy to compare.


----------



## Ceinwen (Jul 1, 2004)

If the safety breakdown (safest to least) is: babe in seat on plane, babe on lap in plane, babe in seat in car...

I would absolutely fly babe on lap. I've flown with dd1 on lap before, a mid-length flight and would do it again hands down.

We (dh and I) both felt comfortable.


----------

