# would you take your kids whitewater rafting? UPDATE #76



## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Would you take your kids whitewater rafting (using a rafting company)?

Assume you have kids my kids' ages -- 7 and 13.

Thanks for the opinions.

(PS. Life jackets would be worn, of course)


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

Sure. Depending on the river and the class of the rapids. But generally, if your going with a rafting company they're pretty used to kids and know what different age groups can handle, so yeah. Why not?


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## LVale (May 4, 2004)

Yes, if they knew how to swim, and for the 7 yr a life jacket. But then again I had free range kids (now 32 and 29), and they did stuff nobody else was allowed to do. If you are comfortable and they want to do it, along with proper instruction in white water rafting, I say go for it!


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamadelbosque* 
Sure. Depending on the river and the class of the rapids. But generally, if your going with a rafting company they're pretty used to kids and know what different age groups can handle, so yeah. Why not?

near Yellowstone, class II and III rapids.

I was fine with it until I read on the website where they say, "You _*probably*_ won't fall out of the raft."


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Yes, as long as they meet the company guidelines, the company runs a family-style rafting trip, they can swim, and most important, they follow directions well most of the time. No, if those criteria were not met.

What would make me hesitate were if your 7 year old were at the absolute bottom of the appropriate age range - I might wait a year in that case.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LVale* 
Yes, if they knew how to swim, and for the 7 yr a life jacket. But then again I had free range kids (now 32 and 29), and they did stuff nobody else was allowed to do. If you are comfortable and *they want to do it,* along with proper instruction in white water rafting, I say go for it!

They really, really want to do this. Dh really wants us to do this, too.

PS. I love the term "free-range" kids.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 

What would make me hesitate were if your 7 year old were at the absolute bottom of the appropriate age range - I might wait a year in that case.

You have to be at least 50 lbs. He weighs 60-something, and he's only a few weeks away from being 8. He's still learning to swim, but he'd be wearing a life jacket.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
near Yellowstone, class II and III rapids.

I was fine with it until I read on the website where they say, "You _*probably*_ won't fall out of the raft."

Well... class III might make me hesitate a bit actually. Have they been on similar adventures?


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

No I would not. Even professionals die in white water, we had a very experienced one die here last year and his body was never recovered. There was also a family that lost a coulple members last year when they went on water they shouldn't have been on. I am leary of rivers though because I almost drowned in our really calm one when I was snagged on a tree branch under the water. I would probably let my child float with a life jacket on a mild river when she is a stronger swimmer and she has an adult who is a strong swimmer with her, but not white water.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
Well... class III might make me hesitate a bit actually. Have they been on similar adventures?

No, they haven't.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Dh is a very adventurous kind of parent, and I'm always the one holding back, worried about the safety issues.

We try to meet in the middle, but sometimes it's hard for us to know where that "middle" is, yk?


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## southernmama (May 1, 2004)

yes- took dd 6 and ds 3 on a four day raft adn camp trip with friends (experienced rafers have their own rafts)- the class iv would be a lot but you can always walk around a rapid. kids loved it- was very safe if you do it smartly and have someone who really knows the river.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Ugh, I want to protect them but not overprotect them, yk? I want to raise ambitious, confident kids. So I often find conflicts in what I want to let them do, and yet don't want to let them do!!

If we do go, I'm going to have them wear helmets as well as life jackets.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
Ugh, I want to protect them but not overprotect them, yk? I want to raise ambitious, confident kids. So I often find conflicts in what I want to let them do, and yet don't want to let them do!!

If we do go, I'm going to have them wear helmets as well as life jackets.

I was just talking to my husband about your dilemma and we agreed our first step would be to call the company and get a human being and talk to that person about what it's like and any concerns they might have. I think more information would be good.







The WW rafting trips I've been on that were organized by companies all included helmets as far as I remember.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

Sure, class 2 and 3 rapids are really fairly minor - enough to be fun, but not really dangerous yet, IMO, so long as you have some idea of how to swim and have a life jacket on (which you *ALWAYS* will when rafting *regardless* of age, unless your an idiot!!).


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GuildJenn* 
I was just talking to my husband about your dilemma and we agreed our first step would be to call the company and get a human being and talk to that person about what it's like and any concerns they might have. I think more information would be good.







The WW rafting trips I've been on that were organized by companies all included helmets as far as I remember.

I did just call.









Good idea! He said it would be safe for my 7 yo., and they could provide helmets for me if I wanted. But their website pictures don't show helmets.


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

Class III is absolutely NOT MINOR. I was knocked unconscious in a class II rapid and suffered a traumatic brain injury even with a helmet. Granted, I was in a white water kayak, not a raft, but just want to put it out there that the water in class II can be moving pretty swiftly, and eddy lines are very difficult to navigate, especially if you do not weigh a whole lot. Make sure all of you have life jackets and helmets on. I don't think I would bring my child, but my past experience gives me a little bit of a bias.


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## Teensy (Feb 22, 2002)

Does your 7 year old follow instructions well? Is he inclined to stay calm in an emergency? If he does fall out, would he remember and do what he was told (something like to float on his back with his feet downstream, for example)?

I would have taken my oldest on those types of rapids at that age, but probably not my middle child.

I would call the rafting center and discuss you concerns with them.

I loved the few times I've been whitewater rafting and look forward to taking my kids at some point - I was considering taking all three on a class II trip (ages 5 and up permitted







) this summer, but the cold water temps in Washington state (where we are going on vacation) have me reconsidering.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pumpkin_Pie* 
Class III is absolutely NOT MINOR. I was knocked unconscious in a class II rapid and suffered a traumatic brain injury even with a helmet. Granted, I was in a white water kayak, not a raft, but just want to put it out there that the water in class II can be moving pretty swiftly, and eddy lines are very difficult to navigate, especially if you do not weigh a whole lot. Make sure all of you have life jackets and helmets on. I don't think I would bring my child, but my past experience gives me a little bit of a bias.

Oh scary!!

Things like this make me want to scream "No!" but then I think about the 13 yo. scaling Everest and the 16 yo. sailing solo around the world, and I think "let your kids live a little!"

So my brain is going crazy trying to decide.


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I did just call.









Good idea! He said it would be safe for my 7 yo., and they could provide helmets for me if I wanted. But their website pictures don't show helmets.

I absolutely would not go with a company that did not require helmets. Dangerous and not worth the risk. Do you really want to be on a boat going down a river with the possibility of a fellow rafter falling out of the boat and smashing their head wide open on a rock? Think about the "fun" pictures you see of a boat with one end up in the air and then judge the distance you would fall out of that onto a ROCK. You could absolutely die falling from that height, or at the very least be knocked unconscious and be washed down river. Not a reputable company if they don't require and provide basic safety equipment.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Teensy* 
Does your 7 year old follow instructions well? Is he inclined to stay calm in an emergency?

Yes he follows instructions well but no, he would not stay very calm if he fell out (I probably wouldn't either!)


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

People die falling down stairs and walking down the street too. Doesn't mean we don't let'm do it. A rafting drip advertised as 'class 2 & 3' tells me its almost certainly 80% class 2 and just a tiny bit of class 3 thrown in, probably at the end. I'd do it in a heartbeat, as would dh. Honestly, we can't wait for our boys to get old enough to go rafting & rock climbing & backpacking, etc. Can. Not. Wait.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Well, some of you say no, and some of you say yes.

You sound like my brain.









I do appreciate all of the opinions, though!


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
Well, some of you say no, and some of you say yes.

You sound like my brain.









I do appreciate all of the opinions, though!

If you do decide to go, please, please wear life jackets and helmets. All of you. Yes, people die falling down stairs, but why not use safety equipment if it is provided? Have fun and stay safe!


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I did just call.









Good idea! He said it would be safe for my 7 yo., and they could provide helmets for me if I wanted. But their website pictures don't show helmets.

I'd believe him.







Have fun!


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pumpkin_Pie* 
If you do decide to go, please, please wear life jackets and helmets. All of you. Yes, people die falling down stairs, but why not use safety equipment if it is provided? Have fun and stay safe!


This makes sense. Thanks!


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

I would if that were something my kids would enjoy!

I used to go white water rafting before I had kids and I LOVED it. When you go with a tour, you have a guide who goes through those rapids every day (or at least several times a week). The guide is steering and knows the best course. It isn't the same as being in light weight boat on your own.

However, I have a child with autism and vacation items like this aren't possible for our family. I hope you go and have fun!!!!


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## shanniesue2 (Jul 4, 2007)

There was a Mothering article about a year ago featuring a mother who took her boys rafting at the end of their summer break... it was a great article...do you think it's on the website here somewhere?


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

I've been rafting several times & have brought my girl guides rafting on 3 different occassions. In my experience the companies are VERY safety minded & wouldn't hesitate to bring my child. Many companies have different sets of rapids/rules they use for children under 90lbs. We had a girl once who wasn't 90lbs yet & she couldn't participate with the other girls.

I have never seen a company who doesn't provide lifejackets & helmets & don't think I'd feel comfortable using one who did. Even when I went in Costa Rica they used the same standards as I'm used to in Canada.

Is it an activity with some risk - yes. But it's also a fabulous experience & the risks are manageable.


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

I forgot to add that every time I've gone the river guides have been VERY good about adjusting the trip to suit the people in their boat. So the time I had a really brave, rambuctious group of girls the guide had has trying some more challenging stuff & taking rougher lines. When I had a quieter, more cautious group the guide kept to the easiest lines & when we went through the more challenging areas he had the girls duck down in the boat to really minimize the chance of anyone falling in.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

What time of year? How much water will there be? That would probably make the decision for me. If the rivers are running really swift and high, I'd be worried about anyone going.


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## hildare (Jul 6, 2009)

we totally would.
especially as your child is over the age & weight minimum.
we live on a river, cannot wait to have kayak adventures, etc.
but many of my friends have done the rafting thing, the guides know what to watch for, etc. and most have very high safety standards. i'd imagine it's pretty low risk. i say go for it!


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
Would you take your kids whitewater rafting (using a rafting company)?

Assume you have kids my kids' ages -- 7 and 13.

Thanks for the opinions.

(PS. Life jackets would be worn, of course)

Absolutely-we owned a WW rafting company and took kids all the time on class 3.

I know that a PP said that she was injured on a class II, which is totally a possibility, but she also said she was in a WW kayak, which is more dangerous IME, I love rafts, but I hate kayaking. I'm a trained river guide and a kayak always has felt uncomfortable and scary(and this is coming from a woman who has done class 5).

As with anything there is risk involved, but for myself I am a HUGE rafting fan and most companies are great with children and families, I know ours was. Gosh watching my DH with many of the children we took is probably why we finally had kids ourselves, seeing him with those kids made me realize what an awesome daddy he could be.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Norasmomma* 
Gosh watching my DH with many of the children we took is probably why we finally had kids ourselves, seeing him with those kids made me realize what an awesome daddy he could be.









That's really cute.









Dh SO wants to take them and I realize I have to let him make parenting decisions, too.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
He's still learning to swim,


Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
they could provide helmets for me if I wanted. But their website pictures don't show helmets.

These two items would be my sticking points.

I would say let you DH take the 13 yo who can swim, while you and your 7 yo do something else special. Also I would find a company that required *everyone* to wear a helmet including the guide who would have a hard time keeping everyone safe if s/he got knocked unconscious.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

13 absolutely, 7 - depends on the kid. My older son at 7, yes. My younger son is just turning 6, but I don't see him as the kind of kid to handle that at 7.

I went rafting once, on a beginner course, and absolutely loved it. However, even then I got thrown out of the raft one time, and there were some other intense moments that required keeping my cool and following quick directions.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
near Yellowstone, class II and III rapids.

I was fine with it until I read on the website where they say, "You _*probably*_ won't fall out of the raft."

They don't say you won't because nothing is 100% full proof and they do not want the liability of saying you won't then you do.

Plus remember you can't fix stupid - like people trying to stand up.

I would take them and vest for all. Ask about helmets.


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## ramama (Apr 13, 2007)

I would go, with the caveats that many have already mentioned. I would also inquire if the guide will be wearing a helmet. Wouldn't want the guide to be knocked out leaving a boatful of inexperienced rafters to their own devices. I would hesitate to go with a company that doesn't require helmets for everyone. Aren't rivers, and river beds, like all rock with some water running over them?

In short, I'd go but only with the right company.


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## flitters (Sep 18, 2003)

Helmets (and obviously life vests) are a must for all people in the group.

I'd have reservations about taking a non-swimmer, mostly because of the scariness of how out of control and scary it could be if they did go overboard. Water is crazy powerful, and cold, and it's hard to breathe with the splashing and the rocks and the motion - I think it could be very frightening.

As for "probably won't fall out of the raft part" I have 2 thoughts:

1) A little one is more likely to go over because the forces can throw them farther and they aren't as strong to hold themselves in the boat.

2) Be *very* particular about your guide (and I don't know how to assure this in advance). I've been on a few rafting trips and on the last one the guide was definitely less experienced and less able to direct or control the raft. Sure enough, a raft full of 8 or so adults totally flipped in what couldn't have been more than class 3 water. It is scary and disorienting and totally different than just cruising down a stream in a life vest.


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## JessBB (Apr 10, 2007)

13 yes, 7 no. And I don't consider myself remotely cautious or over-protective. I did class III & IV at 13 (on the "deliverance" river, btw).


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

I also have to add, I've taken my 3 year old on a family float(and I was 7 months pg). Usually on the type of float I'd guess if someone falls out they are directly next to the boat-that's what happened with us.

If you want _ask_ for an experienced guide, most companies would be more than accommodating with any needs. I know our company prided itself on making sure our clients had a good time. My DH was often the guide who took the more frightened families due to his vast experience and personality, he is very calming to people who are nervous.

I have to say that our company didn't use helmets, unless it was class 4, I know some may gasp at that, but our river is a pool drop, so lots of it is deep. More than likely they will be very used to people who have never gone, our company was probably 75% people who'd never gone. Your guide will give you detailed instructions of what to expect, what to do IF you fall out(swimmer's position, feet forward, don't put your feet down, etc....). We took lots of newbies and honestly most minor things happen on shore(getting stung by a yellowjacket is the biggie).


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

OMG, I would jump at the chance! I can't wait till my ds is old enough!

If you want to ask questions to feel more comfortable, ask how often people fall out, how many of those are people who jump (it happens, usually in slack water between rapids), and when they had their last major injury. You could also ask the average number of major injuries per year (if its high, don't go - it means they don't hire experienced guides and don't watch river conditions carefully enough).

Have fun!!

ETA - also ask to be in a raft with another family (if your isn't big enough to take up a whole raft). I've been in rafts before with people who refuse to listen to the guide, and mostly they are people without young children and aren't concerned about safety - so they do things like paddle toward the dangerous part of the rapid, and its hard to steer away form stuff like that when a very strong person wants to go there. So, in a raft with other kids, you'd be much more likely to have good fun in a safe way.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Is the 7 year old a good swimmer? if not, I'd wait another year or two for Class three rapids. My dd was thrown from the boat at ten years old and even though she was an excellent swimmer, she freaked out pretty bad. I had a heck of time getting her to go again.


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## Peony (Nov 27, 2003)

The 13y old, yes for sure. For a class III, it would depend on the 7y old for me. A timid 7y who struggles to listen at times would not be high on my list to go. I would let my 7y old go in an instant, and she is going this summer as well. She is a strong swimmer, not that it really matters that much, and she doesn't get scared on things like that, the child snowboards down slopes I would never go down and I am a boarder myself. I grew up white water rafting, I live in a rafting town, I know the risks and am comfortable with them. Have fun!


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## terrordactyl (Jul 19, 2006)

I would I started rafting when i was about 11 an my brother was 4 it was a great experience and i still love it today class II an III in a raft with helmets wouldn't be that bad.. the rapids are only a few times throughout the river not the whole trip alot is sightseeing


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

My child would have to be a strong swimmer -- i.e. really comfortable in the water. That your seven - year old is not ... that would say to me this is the summer to work on THAT, not white water rafting.


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## sweetpeppers (Dec 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
near Yellowstone, class II and III rapids.

I was fine with it until I read on the website where they say, "You _*probably*_ won't fall out of the raft."

Heck yeah. White water rafting is awesome. I think me and my brothers went on that trip when we were around that age. Class 2's and 3's are pretty tame.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Yes, I would take my kids on a this kind of rafting trip if they are both keen to go. I just would make sure that both kiddos are wearing a well-fitted life jacket & helmet, & that they know what to expect.

We've never been whitewater rafting- I'm jealous!!


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Subhuti* 
My child would have to be a strong swimmer -- i.e. really comfortable in the water. That your seven - year old is not ... that would say to me this is the summer to work on THAT, not white water rafting.

The rafting company assured me that non-swimmers are welcome.


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
The rafting company assured me that non-swimmers are welcome.

Our company took people who couldn't swim and many of them were adults. You really don't need to know how to, the lifejacket provides flotation with a pillow to support the head while floating on your back in swimmers position. Swimming is really not required.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
The rafting company assured me that non-swimmers are welcome.

Wow -- that seems so strange to me.

You know, I would have to see the water to really make a judgement about it. I think it is very abstract to me at this point.

I only have experience canoeing. My fear is that your child will get stuck/pinned under /beside a rock or a tree if there is whitewater.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

I would. I remember doing WW canoe trips around 5-6.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

If you're really concerned about taking a non-swimmer I would get in a pool, with a lifejacket, and practice the "swimmer's position" as its called.

What you do, is lay on your back, head up with your toes out of the water (or as close as you can get). Show your son how to do this, and do it as a family (that way he isn't singled out, and really, any of you can end up in the water so its good to know what it is - and doing is different than just being told). You'll want them to know that if they end up in the water they are to be looking downstream (your feet aren't as important as your head, so your toes should hit rocks first). Stay that way until you get rescued.

I went on a 16day WW trip the summer before I started college, and it was the most fun I've ever had! I loved it, and really can't wait until my ds is old enough - hopefully he has as much a sense of adventure as I do!


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## Ornery (May 21, 2007)

I started whitewater rafting around 14 and I love it. I can't swim but I still do a lot of water activites (tubing, water skiing, jumping from bridges, etc.). I haven't been rafting since before my 6 yo dd was born and I'd love to go again but don't see it in the cards anytime soon.

We usually did a river with numerous Class III's. There were a few very dicey times. Once I got trapped under the raft, that would most likely be my biggest fear for a 7 yr old. It was awful and I thought I was going to die.

Another time, someone in our rafting party (not in our raft though) fell onto a huge rock while they were flipping and got hurt badly enough to be flown to a hospital. They were wearing a helmet.

It wasn't a family activity and it most likely was very far from safe when we did it so that might be coloring my view but I would not take a 7 yo.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I wouldn't, but I tend to lean to the more cautious side and the lack of swimming skills would be the deal breaker for me. That and the fact that the guide doesn't wear a helmet. An injured or unconscious guide would NOT be a good situation to be in without *any* prior experience.

Actually, what would cause me to pause beyond that is the fact that it's with a company and that means that there will be people other than just your family and the guide in the raft. (Well, the dozen or so times I've been ww rafting there were about 8 or 10 people in the raft, so I'm assuming it won't be just you 4 and the guide.) The others are not going to want to interrupt their adventure to let you get out of the raft, walk around the rapids, then wait for you and get everything situated again. So, I see that there would be a lack of flexibility if you find that it *is* more than you are comfortable with and want to walk the rapids instead of shooting them (I think that's the right term). If the water looks too white for your comfort level, to be fair to the whole group, you'll just have to suck it up and plow on through.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

I'm curious...........are any of you who are saying yes (or no, for that matter) unschoolers? What I perceive around here is that unschoolers are a little more flexible (for lack of a better term) about the risks they let their kids take. (My kids go to public school.) Is that just a stereotype?


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Also, this article states that dads (more than moms) encourage kids to take risks:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37741738...and_parenting/

"As it turns out, King is right about dad-power. Over the past decade or so, researchers have begun to focus on the special role dads take in child-rearing. Their role extends far beyond rough-and-tumble play, experts say. Studies have shown that dads empower their kids, giving them the impetus to go out to explore the world, to meet new people and to take chances. "

Dh really wants to take them. And my gut feeling is that it will be fun.


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## Girlprof (Jun 11, 2007)

I would totally do it. We went on a WW rafting trip when I was about 9 and my brother 7. It was part of a big trip out west, but it's one of the things we both remember. We are just regular public schoolers, btw. I have gone 3 times since then and I can remember so much of these trips. They were just phenomenal! I'm not sure that swimming skills would be super useful in white water anyway. I think if you fall in, the deal is just point your feet downstream and float.


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## texmati (Oct 19, 2004)

well.. my son is 8 months-- so definitely won't be taking him. but we had lots of fun on the few rafting trips we've taken growing up. Definitely life jackets for everybody, and talk about how important it is to listen to parents, and the guide if you have one.

And also pick a path that is appropriate. not an unschooler or an unschooled child.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I'm curious...........are any of you who are saying yes (or no, for that matter) unschoolers? What I perceive around here is that unschoolers are a little more flexible (for lack of a better term) about the risks they let their kids take. (My kids go to public school.) Is that just a stereotype?

I think it is, but no offense taken. I think it really has more to do with peoples individual personalities, and how adventurous different people are. I have gone to public school my entire life, and always thought home schooling was kinda weird (still do a little - but if it works for people then that's great for them). In fact, the people I knew who were homeschooled (I still don't get the difference between home schooled and unschooled though) were always much much more conservative than my family.


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## mamadelbosque (Feb 6, 2007)

Heh, well, fwiw *I* was homeschooled/unschooled







My DS1 will almost certainly be going to public school, although thats at least partially due to location: the only homeschoolers group around is christian-only (to the point of having to sign a 'statement of faith'), and I am *NOT* christian and am *NOT* signing it. And I just don't think it'd be fair to HS (esp ds1 who's *VERY* outgoing and LOVES to play w/ other kids) w/o a HSing group


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Girlprof* 
I'm not sure that swimming skills would be super useful in white water anyway. I think if you fall in, the deal is just point your feet downstream and float.

Though I see your point in terms of advanced swimming skills such as perfect form while doing the butterfly stroke, I think being generally good at swimming would make a difference. Good breath control while water is slashing in one's face for starters, is important. Not panicking b/c one is familiar with being emerged in water. Ability to steer one's self away from sharp rocks and towards shore would help. Knowing to keep one's legs up in a relaxed manner.

Today I took DS to a very calm lake. He slipped in shallow water and went under. Instead of just standing up, he panicked and flailed. Of course since I was standing next to him I just reached down and picked him up and put him back on his feet, but if it were a situation where I couldn't reach him he would have been in trouble. Though all he needed to do was stand up, his _panic_ kept him from taking this simple non-swimming step.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
I think being generally good at swimming would make a difference. Good breath control while water is slashing in one's face for starters, is important.

I think it has more to do with personality that swim skills. My DD with autism has wonderful form and can swim a 200 IM like nobody's business. It would be completely inappropriate to put her in a raft and send her down a river. She would freak out, even if she stayed in the boat.









Conversely, there are lots of people can't swim 10 meters who would do just fine if fell out of a boat while wearing a lifejacket. It's not swim skills you need -- just a cool head.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

I would definitely do it.

My mom's boyfriend and his son own a ww rafting trip, and I took my 2 yo, 4 yo, and 6 yo on a float trip last year. There were no rapids, but I was so impressed with how much they could control the rafts. My BILs were in kayaks and we were having water fights with the big water guns, and my mom's boyfriend could stop the raft, turn it around, and get me right in position to spray them.

Also, I don't think swimming would matter much. You can't really swim in a rapid, you just have to float along and try to kick over to the edge or a boat, or just wait for them to pick you up, as far as I can tell.


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## Subhuti (Feb 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 

Today I took DS to a very calm lake. He slipped in shallow water and went under. Instead of just standing up, he panicked and flailed. Of course since I was standing next to him I just reached down and picked him up and put him back on his feet, but if it were a situation where I couldn't reach him he would have been in trouble. Though all he needed to do was stand up, his _panic_ kept him from taking this simple non-swimming step.

I think this is the scenario I worry about for your child. Just a lack of ease in the water.

What is the harm in waiting for a year or two until they are a bit bigger and better in the water?

I'm thinking the rapids will still be there ...

Liz


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## BAU3 (Dec 10, 2001)

A couple of things to consider:

1. Although guides can control a boat pretty well themselves, alot of times they rely on thier crew to follow instructions and paddle,also. This applies more in class IV and V water, but if you have a boat full of people who cant paddle, or can't follow a guides instruction, the boat doesn't always go where the guide wants it to.

Would all the people in the boat have paddles, would they be paddling?

2. Do they have a saftey boater that goes along with the trip? All the companies here send one or two safety kayakers along with the trip. They are able to reach a swimmer quicker and help get them safely back in the boat.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I'm curious...........are any of you who are saying yes (or no, for that matter) unschoolers? What I perceive around here is that unschoolers are a little more flexible (for lack of a better term) about the risks they let their kids take. (My kids go to public school.) Is that just a stereotype?

I'm not in the US so this might be irrelevant, but our kids go to a public school, & private school for the middle-senior years. Our family is just okay with things that others might think are a little bit 'out there'. DH & I firmly believe that letting kids take risks where they are fairly safe is good for learning boundaries about what isn't safe, iykwim. I take a somewhat eclectic & middle ground when it comes to free-range kids- sure, jump off that waterfall, but make sure you swim underneath first (including duck-diving down from the surface to check) to ensure there aren't any hidden trees or rocks. Sure, climb that boulder or rock, but check your landing first & know that if it goes wrong you can break your ankle or wrist (& that sucks). Sure you can walk up to the shops, but first you need to show that you are aware of traffic safety & such. Sure you can ride your bike to the park to play footy or use the swings (again traffic safety is key).

I think it's all about what your family feels comfortable with- there is no right or wrong here.


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## gealach (Sep 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I did just call.









Good idea! He said it would be safe for my 7 yo., and they could provide helmets for me if I wanted. But their website pictures don't show helmets.

I haven't read the whole thread but this bothers me about the company. They should be REQUIRING helmets of all boaters - kids, adults, staff. My husband has been a whitewater guide in the past - both in raft and as a safety (kayak) boater. If you are going near whitewater, you need a helmet.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BAU3* 

2. Do they have a saftey boater that goes along with the trip? All the companies here send one or two safety kayakers along with the trip. They are able to reach a swimmer quicker and help get them safely back in the boat.

That's a good question. I'll ask.


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## Cukup (Jul 31, 2009)

Only on page 1 but no for the 7 year old.

I think there is too much chance for sheer panic if he were to fall out and be in flowing water. Too much he can't control like banging into rocks, tree roots etc. Imagine falling in and being upside down and not knowing where you are at that age. So for me, no!


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
I'm curious...........are any of you who are saying yes (or no, for that matter) unschoolers? What I perceive around here is that unschoolers are a little more flexible (for lack of a better term) about the risks they let their kids take. (My kids go to public school.) Is that just a stereotype?

No I'm just an adventurous person who grew up in the country on a river, I don't know why this would even be applicable honestly.

I'm more flexible because it's my personality.

I'd never un-school or homeschool for that matter, it's also not my personality.


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## *bejeweled* (Jul 16, 2003)

"Yes" for the 13 year old. "No" for the 7 year old because he is a non-swimmer.


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## BAU3 (Dec 10, 2001)

Fwiw, my dh took my 6 yo (maybe he was even 5, can't really remember) on a class 2-3 river.. they went a total of 3-4 trips. (dh has been a guide for almost 30 years.) We have borrowed rafts and done trips on class 2-3 rivers with our kids when one of them was about 3.

Honestly, barring all the tragic things that can happen in everyday life. A guide on a class 2-3 river will not let anyone fall out of a boat unless he (she) wants them to.


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## DaughterOfKali (Jul 15, 2007)

I wouldn't. If my child knew how to swim, I would do canoeing, etc. WWR would be too risky for me.


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## Kidzaplenty (Jun 17, 2006)

Of my children, I would easily take my 6 year old and up (although my 15 year old would not want to go).

With a life jacket, I would not worry about them falling out, and they have no fear, or so it seems.

My 6 yo has been riding the "baby roller coasters" at King's Island since he was 4, and olders went on the Diamond Back rollercoaster (as well as ALL the others there) at age 8, 11, & 13. They LOVE adventure, fast rides, and action. They would LOVE to white water raft. The only one to opt out would be my 15 yo, as she does not like fast things or bumpy rides. And in a year or two, I am sure my almost two year old would also love it.

Perhaps it is just something I have passed down to them, because I love it myself.

As for us, we are an unschooling family, and I was a homeschooled kid myself. But, I don't think that really has anything do do with it other than opening up the times we could go.

And as for Dad, I have had to push him into more "risky" type stuff. It is not his style.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

UPDATE:

We went (on the Yellowstone River up in Gardiner, Montana) and had a great time. The rapids were fun, but not as bad as I had anticipated. We also went horseback riding, which was fun too, except for the fact that a horse BIT ME and I have a huge bruise!!

My kids had a fantastic time.

Thanks for all of the advice!


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## Momily (Feb 15, 2007)

I've taken my son twice, at age 5 and 7. The first time was a mistake. We were on the Kananaskis river in Canada which is glacier fed and freezing cold. It was a "family float trip" and the they didn't let the little ones paddle. Without that exercise it was too cold. The poor kid was blue when he was done.

The second time, we still did an easy trip because a friend who is a non-swimmer came, but we had a great time. It was a much warmer river, which helped, and he could paddle.

I'd call and ask about helmets, and whether my 7 year old could paddle. If the answer is yes to both then I'd go. Rafting is sooo much fun.


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## becoming (Apr 11, 2003)

No, I would not. My ex-boyfriend's father & uncle died in a rafting accident in 2004. They were on a guided trip on the Gallatin River in Montana.

http://www.boatbanter.com/showthread.php?t=14052


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## Owen'nZoe (Sep 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
UPDATE:

We went (on the Yellowstone River up in Gardiner, Montana) and had a great time. The rapids were fun, but not as bad as I had anticipated. We also went horseback riding, which was fun too, except for the fact that a horse BIT ME and I have a huge bruise!!

My kids had a fantastic time.

Thanks for all of the advice!

So glad you went and that it turned out so well. Sounds like fun! (Except for the horsey bite.







)


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Owen'nZoe* 
So glad you went and that it turned out so well. Sounds like fun! (Except for the horsey bite.







)

Thanks!


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