# John Rosemond?



## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

Does anyone else have John Rosemond's syndicated column in their newspaper?

He advocates "Traditional Parenting", which as far as I can tell advocates parenting styles from the 1950's, lots of manipulating your child by withholding love and lying to them to get them to change their behavior.

Here's the link to his website: www.rosemond.com

The column that really caught my eye was a few weeks ago-- a mom was having trouble with her 4 year old's tantrums, since they would go home whenever the 4yo started tantruming, which meant her older daughter was de facto punished as well.

Rosemond suggested emptying the 4yo room of everything except bed and dresser and boxing up all toys and decorations until the 4 yo had gone two weeks without tantruming.









Very unpleasant and scary stuff.

Anyone know more about this guy or have read his books? I'm planning to ask the paper to discontinue his column, his advice is THAT bad.


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## Evan&Anna's_Mom (Jun 12, 2003)

I was so glad when our paper stopped carrying his column. It used to make me so mad each week. DH and I used to ask, "What is the child hater spouting today?" I just never understood his feelings that the 1950's parenting "worked" and therefore should be replicated. There are so many things we thought "worked" in the 50's that we know were not so good now. How is it that we have disproved so many societal things that were OK in the 50's but we shouldn't examine and change/improve on anything related to parenting. By his logic we should still be drinking 3 martini lunches with a cigarette hanging from our mouths (oops, only the men), treating potential miscarriages with thalidimide, perscribing speed for too-tired moms, and so forth. We've learned so much since then, why not use it?

The one that put me over the edge was his advise to parents of "late" potty trainers (anything over 2 in his definition). You were supposed to "confine" (read lock) them in the bathroom until they "performed" correctly. He mentioned that this could take "up to 4-5 hours" for an "extremely stubbon and self-centered child". OMG -- locking a 2 year old in a bathroom for that long! Most of us realize that this is a potentiall dangerous place for a young child and you could easily find a drowned kid when you opened the door. Not to mention the underlying assumption that the child wasn't using the toilet because he was stubborn and self-centered and needed to have his will broken by being locked in the bathroom.

Definitely not someone that I would ever take advise from and I'm glad his reach is slowly being curtailed as papers drop him. Luckily the vast majority of his website is pay-to-view, so people can't accidently stumble there and adopt his views.


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## Redifer (Nov 25, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
The one that put me over the edge was his advise to parents of "late" potty trainers (anything over 2 in his definition). You were supposed to "confine" (read lock) them in the bathroom until they "performed" correctly. He mentioned that this could take "up to 4-5 hours" for an "extremely stubbon and self-centered child". OMG -- locking a 2 year old in a bathroom for that long! Most of us realize that this is a potentiall dangerous place for a young child and you could easily find a drowned kid when you opened the door. Not to mention the underlying assumption that the child wasn't using the toilet because he was stubborn and self-centered and needed to have his will broken by being locked in the bathroom.

I despise that man. But this advice caught DH's family's eye, as DD didn't potty learn until about 3.5 years. We got a lot of flack for it.

However, they told us about this advice. Apparently, they didn't seem to understand that if I left my 3 year old in the bathroom unsupervised, I would find my bathroom TRASHED. Shampoo on the floor, lipstick on the wall, nail polish on the toilet, toilet paper in the sink and bathtub by the YARD, tampons disemboweled, pads stuck to the door, every single bar of soap unwrapped and broken, conditioner in the garbage can, toothpaste in the towels...

Until, that is, that's how my MIL found HER bathroom the ONE time she babysat (DH and I had to go to his best friend's funeral on extremely short notice) and attempted to keep DD in there until she went potty. It took 3 people 5 hours to clean up the gigantic mess that had unfolded in there.

So, not only did she not learn how to potty, but she also had a fan-freakin-TASTIC time in "punishment/isolation" by throwing a one-woman party in the bathroom.

Yeaaaaa... his advice works REAL well. Thankfully, he's not in our paper anymore. And luckily, my kid took it into her own hands to teach MIL a lesson about listening to parenting advice from the 50's. I have to say, I laughed hysterically when I saw her bathroom. She kinda had it coming.


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## ilovebabies (Jun 7, 2008)

It's sad to think of all the parents who have followed his advice.


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Evan&Anna's_Mom* 
The one that put me over the edge was his advise to parents of "late" potty trainers (anything over 2 in his definition). You were supposed to "confine" (read lock) them in the bathroom until they "performed" correctly. He mentioned that this could take "up to 4-5 hours" for an "extremely stubbon and self-centered child". OMG -- locking a 2 year old in a bathroom for that long! Most of us realize that this is a potentiall dangerous place for a young child and you could easily find a drowned kid when you opened the door. Not to mention the underlying assumption that the child wasn't using the toilet because he was stubborn and self-centered and needed to have his will broken by being locked in the bathroom.


That is HORRIBLE.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Redifer* 
I despise that man. But this advice caught DH's family's eye, as DD didn't potty learn until about 3.5 years. We got a lot of flack for it.

However, they told us about this advice. Apparently, they didn't seem to understand that if I left my 3 year old in the bathroom unsupervised, I would find my bathroom TRASHED. Shampoo on the floor, lipstick on the wall, nail polish on the toilet, toilet paper in the sink and bathtub by the YARD, tampons disemboweled, pads stuck to the door, every single bar of soap unwrapped and broken, conditioner in the garbage can, toothpaste in the towels...

Until, that is, that's how my MIL found HER bathroom the ONE time she babysat (DH and I had to go to his best friend's funeral on extremely short notice) and attempted to keep DD in there until she went potty. It took 3 people 5 hours to clean up the gigantic mess that had unfolded in there.


Sounds like "natural consequences" for your MIL!
















Ugh. He's awful. I'm going to write a letter to our paper for sure.


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## Bird Girl (Mar 12, 2007)

And now for the Opposing Viewpoint (tm)...

I like him. It's not that he hasn't written a boneheaded column or two in his career, which at this point has spanned several decades. He has. It's that he often understands how to diffuse the power struggle between parents who are locked into their viewpoint and their hapless child. He does advocate time-outs, but when you look at that recommendation against what is typically going on in the home at the time (major behavior issues, yelling and shaming behavior, corporal punishment) a time-out is the least of these kids' problems.

He also has some very interesting things to say about parenting teens; advocating trust, lack of micromanagement, and the ability to separate from your teen's choices without abandoning the teen.


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

Well, I'm glad he's not all bad. He's still bad enough that I'd like them to give him the boot. His recommendations seemed so based in manipulation it can't possibly be a healthy dynamic, you know? I agree that time-outs are better than spanking, but all this is on a spectrum and I think that his philosophy for small children is almost as damaging as a "spare the rod, spoil the child" parenting concept.

I haven't read any of his advice about teens, and I have a small child, so this is probably coloring my perspective.

Maybe this should be another thread, but can anyone give me some alternatives to suggest? Does one of the Dr Sears have a weekly parenting column?


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## bl987ue (Mar 14, 2006)

His old stuff had a lot of really great suggestions on discipline, and he seemed really different then, not as dogmatic. His books are a lot different than his column. I don't know what happened to him, he really seemed to go off the rails. I use a lot of his stuff from his books, because it is totally non-coercive and really works. I can't recommend Ending the Homework Hassle highly enough--it made a huge difference in our house.


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## ma_vie_en_rose (Jun 7, 2008)

Reading through his site a little, I found his Question of the Day section. I must say that I can see where he is coming from and how it could certianly diffuse power struggles. I just do not really agree with how he suggests going about it, as far as, deceiving children.

Here is the question I read http://www.rosemond.com/view/389/217...-the-Week.html

Quote:

One of rosemond.com's members says her 3-year-old had developed a problem of backtalking his teachers at preschool. Using a technique I frequently recommend, especially with young children, she told him his doctor said that children who sass their teachers need more sleep; therefore, prescribed the good doctor, the child had to go to bed right after supper until the problem stopped. Two nights was all it took to nip this potential nightmare in the bud. The same child started telling people he was shy and not answering them or giving them eye contact. Mom told him that children become shy from watching too many Thomas the Tank Engine Videos. Voila! No more "shyness."

Note that in both cases, the problem is redefined. Backtalking becomes a sleep issue and shyness becomes a matter of too much exposure to a favorite video character. This is actually a variation on what's called "indirect hypnosis." The child is not being hypnotized in the conventional sense of the term, mind you, but the false explanation given for the problem is so unexpected as to take hold as a valid suggestion. In one case, the consequence comes from a third party whose authority the child already recognizes: his doctor. In both instances, any potential power struggle over backtalking and excuses of shyness is defused before it gets started. As I have said many times, "Your children may be more intelligent than you are, but you are definitely much, much smarter."
I just would never make up a lie to my children about what a dr has said. I would explain that perhaps they are having a difficult time controlling their need to backtalk because they have not been getting enough sleep (if I truly thought that was the issue). I would not explain that the dr told me this as a way to impose what I preceive as a punishment and not a solution to the child controlling their behavior. kwim

The shyness thing just makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. I don't think it is right to lie like this. I also don't think it is necessarily right to tell a child or make them feel like their shyness is wrong.


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

Yeah, I read that. That's the kind of really unhealthy manipulation I was talking about. How can your child trust you when you make up that kind of BS to control their behavior? One day when they're older they'll realize you lied to them about all kinds of stupid stuff, so why should they listen to what you have to say?

It just boggles my mind that people think kids are so stupid. The poor kid in the example was clearly trying to have some control over how / what he communicated to others. This just seems like a setup for big problems down the road to me. Truly destructive advice.

As Alfie Kohn says in his book, the immediate result may be compliance to the parent's wishes, but at what cost to the child and the parent/child relationship??


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