# "Ferberizing" a 4.5 month old



## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

I just received an email from a mama in a group email list who normally only use the list for playgroups. I didn't know for sure, but I was pretty positive that not many of them were AP, but the email that I just got nearly broke my heart.

The mama was talking about how her 4.5 month old "still waking 3 times a night to feed". She was so tired from making bottles of formula and having to feed it to her babe that she is wanting to try Ferberizing her, and was asking for advice from other mamas who had tried that method to get their little one to sleep through the night.

Well, the next email I received was a mama who said that she probably should wait until 6 months to try CIO, but that she was totally sympathetic and admitted to doing CIO with her own little one and although she was miserable doing it, it finally did "work".

I was so heartbroken thinking about these little babes crying their hearts out and trying so hard to communicate with their mamas in the only language they have and totally being abandoned in their time of need that I wrote back asking to be removed from the list. I did suggest the original poster try co-sleeping or even just reading "The No Cry Sleep Solution", but I doubt she will listen.

I am so sad for that little girl...


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## WillyMom (May 1, 2007)

SO sad.
I had a friend CIO with her son at 4.5mo too. Its just really really sad


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## Muminmamman (Jul 28, 2007)

It is so heartbreaking and a real testament to the state of our so called advanced culture. CIO isn't even considered in many, many other cultures (why would someone intentionally make their baby cry??). Imagine what they think when they hear what us crazy westerners are doing this time!


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Wow, what an ingrate! If only my ds would only wake up three times a night...I'd be so happy.


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## hipmummy (May 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
Wow, what an ingrate! If only my ds would only wake up three times a night...I'd be so happy.









: and my ds is ONE!!!!!!


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## 425lisamarie (Mar 4, 2005)

There is a lady down the street who has done this since birth, not joking. From the very first day one


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *425lisamarie* 
There is a lady down the street who has done this since birth, not joking. From the very first day one

god that's sad.


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## luminesce (Aug 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pumpkin_Pie;*
I just received an email from a mama in a group email list who normally only use the list for playgroups. I didn't know for sure, but I was pretty positive that not many of them were AP, but the email that I just got nearly broke my heart.

The mama was talking about how her 4.5 month old "still waking 3 times a night to feed". She was so tired from making bottles of formula and having to feed it to her babe that she is wanting to try Ferberizing her, and was asking for advice from other mamas who had tried that method to get their little one to sleep through the night.

Well, the next email I received was a mama who said that she probably should wait until 6 months to try CIO, but that she was totally sympathetic and admitted to doing CIO with her own little one and although she was miserable doing it, it finally did "work".

I was so heartbroken thinking about these little babes crying their hearts out and trying so hard to communicate with their mamas in the only language they have and totally being abandoned in their time of need that I wrote back asking to be removed from the list. I did suggest the original poster try co-sleeping or even just reading "The No Cry Sleep Solution", but I doubt she will listen.

I am so sad for that little girl...

















:


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

I am so glad to wake up this morning to read these responses. I just couldn't stop cuddling my sweet boy last night. I woke up this morning to a response from another mama saying that we all need to do whatever we can to take care of our babies (true!), but that by my saying that my heart was breaking at the thought of little ones being left to cry, I was accusing them of not taking care of their babies.

I just can't imagine feeling like I was "taking care of my son if I let him cry for hours. I didn't respond, and I won't, but it just makes me so sad at the state of our culture today that this is acceptable to so many mamas.


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## nonibradshaw (May 15, 2007)

Well, how is it that you are "taking care" of a babe who is crying if you're in the other room? Seems to me these mama's are more concerned about "taking care" of their own needs first.


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## Decca (Mar 14, 2006)

FWIW, Ferber himself is against any kind of sleep training for a baby that young.


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## savienu (May 26, 2007)

That is so sad! 







: But yeah, our doctor suggested my son was "spoiled" at 4 months for not sleeping through the night and that I should night wean him, so really, if doctors are suggesting it, why do we expect any different? It's horrible.


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

WHen my one y/o only wakes up 3 times a night I feel like having a party the next day.


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## Kailey's mom (Apr 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savienu* 
That is so sad!







: But yeah, our doctor suggested my son was "spoiled" at 4 months for not sleeping through the night and that I should night wean him, so really, if doctors are suggesting it, why do we expect any different? It's horrible.

until I realised I had to tell the docs she's sleeping good whenever they ask, I was told to let her CIO on almost every doc visit, including her GI doc







: I was truly starting to believe that I was being a bad mom for not letting her CIO. I'm so glad I listened to my gut


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## loriforeman (Aug 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *savienu* 
That is so sad!







: But yeah, our doctor suggested my son was "spoiled" at 4 months for not sleeping through the night and that I should night wean him, so really, if doctors are suggesting it, why do we expect any different? It's horrible.

you know...you'd expect the darned doctors to have taken some developmental psychology...it is IMPOSSIBLE to spoil a four month old.

period. it can't be done. happier babies are the ones that trust that mama will answer their call...

i'm so happy that i have my pediatricians...they pass out papers to EVERY mother...totally against corporal punishment and CIO. they suggest ways of positive discipline...and explain that babies MUST be answered when they cry. thank goodness i don't have to deal with that crap.

(they were also in total support of my raising them vegetarian, and my nursing raegan until she was over four.)


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## Mandala126 (Aug 28, 2007)

You are sooo right, loriforeman. When I asked our ped where he stood on the issue he said it's perfectly "normal" to let them CIO as long as they don't throw up from it. Is that how long they expect you to let them cry???? We ended up leaving that doctor after that (we didn't agree on a lot of other things either).


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## goodheartedmama (Feb 1, 2007)

I see this on a mainstream board all the time...it makes me sick to my stomach every time I read it.


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

My SIL just had a baby three weeks ago. She said on saturday he was "still" eating every 3 hours around the clock and it was making her tired. She's home on maternity leave with him for at least a couple more months. I said "Yeah, DD (Who's 1st birthday we were celebrating that day) nursed every three hours and I was just used to it. Tired, of courrse, but used to it. She seemed really surprised that it was NORMAL for a three-week-old to be waking evry three hours, "even at night!"

Sheesh.


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## nottoolatebaby (Aug 28, 2007)

How can parents do this to an infant? I couldn't do it to a 5 year old. My baby didn't wake at night for feedings. We set an alarm clock to go off every three hours. Was I tired? Yes. ALL us mamas were tired. Why become a mama if you are still more concerned with yourself and your own comfort? Once that child arrives, the child is the priority. It all just makes me so sad. I hate hearing a baby cry. Granted, my 2 year old whines more than cries now and even that is a call to action!!!


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## bdoody11 (Aug 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nottoolatebaby* 
Why become a mama if you are still more concerned with yourself and your own comfort? Once that child arrives, the child is the priority.

ITA!!!!

I always say, being a parent isn't easy. If I didn't want to do the work, I wouldn't have had a baby!

My DH's boss is CIOing. She just can't take the nightly feedings. I think her babe is 5 months. Definitely not more than 7 months because he was born after my DD. So sad...


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

I am just so glad that I know better.
My Mom just left me to cry all the time because she was told she would spoil me if she picked me up.







:

She feels horrible now...and is very supportive of the way I respect my son. She really regrets that she missed all of that bonding time. I feel really bad for the parents as well as the babies when I hear stories like these. It is hard to get up with a baby, but it is an opportunity to bond and everyone loses with CIO.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

I just got back from visiting an old childhood friend who was doing CIO with her 7 month old. It was AWFUL, just awful.

At naptime she left him in there to scream. My 4 year old got really upset and I couldn't stand it either. I'd already told her how I never left Alex to cry, and all about what a wonderful sleeper he turned out to be, etc. But she didn't care, she said she was tired and needed a nap. So I asked her if I could take care of her children for a bit, give her a break and let her nap. She was thrilled to let me do that, and I rocked that sweet baby to sleep in my arms.

I felt so much pain for that little boy, and I find it very hard to imagine my friend (who loves her children VERY MUCH) is so disconnected that it does not really bother her to hear him cry.

It was my frist experience with CIO, and it was just awful.


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## lemurmommies (Jan 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SublimeBirthGirl* 
WHen my one y/o only wakes up 3 times a night I feel like having a party the next day.

I would totally have a party if my 9 month old wasn't up every single hour. Woo hoo!

But yes, one of my (former) friends had a baby 8 weeks before me, and when her husband went away on a golfing trip a few weeks ago, she took the opportunity to try CIO with her daughter. Of course, she is much older than 4.5 months. But it didn't make me feel any better about it! I tried to tell her that it's WELL within the range of normal that her daughter wakes up once (!) a night, but there was no hearing it.

So I just snuggled my babe closer that night.


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## wallacesmum (Jun 2, 2006)

I have a friend who lets her kids cry at every available opportunity. It is ridiculous. I love this woman but it is hard for me to smile and nod when her 3 year old is crying in his bed.


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## AoifesMom (Sep 7, 2007)

These stories make my heart hurt.







:


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## mandolyn (Nov 29, 2006)

I'm heartbroken every time I see one of those emails too. One of the lists I'm on actually has "AP" in the title, and all of the mommas who responded except for me talked about the virtues of CIO, including the moderator. After my strong reply citing the dangers of CIO, asking "how do you call yourselves AP and advocate CIO?" and listing some of the links posted in the stickies of this forum, I haven't checked that board since. Though my best friend (who is also AP) thought I should continue with the group since they "needed" me...









So, so sad...


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## wallacesmum (Jun 2, 2006)

The CIO thing is pretty touchy, though. Since anyone who does it has to know that anyone who doesn't do it thinks it is pretty abusive, the implied comment is "you are neglecting your child," which no one wants to hear. Having made this call, I suspect that anyone who is into it is pretty unwelcoming of those of us who are most decidedly not.


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## Qestia (Sep 26, 2005)

My boss did this, on the advice of her pediatrician, who is employed as part of the same extremely prestigious institution we both work for. Unbelieveable! What was worse is that this woman also employs a "night nurse", so I really wondered why she bothered.


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## nylecoj (Apr 24, 2007)

My babe still wakes up every 1-3 hours all night long and she's 9 mos.

It's hard to not want to succumb to the temptation of CIO, but harder even to actually sit through your kid screaming like that. Makes me sick when she cries and I'm not near her, even if her daddy is comforting her.

I know some mom groups like this too -- but these are also people who fed their kids solids at 15 weeks.

Some people.


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## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

I don't think it will change until more doctors get educated about this stuff. I can hardly believe how ignorant most doctors seem to be about this. There is one semi-retired doc in our practice who discourages crying...he stresses the importance of establishing that trust that you will be there. Thank god for him...but there are others in that same practice who advocate stretching the time out between feedings when the baby reaches a certain weight. This can be when the babe is a mere two months old! Where do they get this idea that the need to nurse at night has anything at all to do with a baby's weight????







: Is there any research to support this at all? It makes no sense to me....

We have a cousin who is a family practice doctor and when we're up visiting them she always says to me as I'm parenting my babe down for naps that I can just leave him. She actually says that it's ok with her...in other words, she won't mind the screaming. Everytime this happens, I'm struck by it but just say thanks and nurse my boy to sleep. Ugh.


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## Pumpkin_Pie (Oct 10, 2006)

I actually got a really nice note from the group leader saying something along the lines of "You can't appease everyone, so I just keep my head down and try to keep it organized". She uses cloth diapers and I am pretty sure she is pretty AP, but she also really wants these mamas to have a group to go to for playtime, so I can see where she is coming from in not getting involved in different opinions on parenting styles.

Now tonight I had to run an errand with a friend's car to pick up a baby gate at the post office that absolutely would not fit in the my car with the car seat in it, so I left DS with my friend for an hour and went to the PO. When I got back my friend said DS had been crying and screaming for a half hour. I nearly dropped the gate in the driveway to get to him. I know she was rocking him and walking with him the entire time, but to think about my sweet boy crying for me for a half hour nearly broke my heart. It makes me even more determined than ever to never, ever, under any circumstances let him cry if I can possibly help it. If I can hear him, I will go to him. Period.


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## LiamsMommy (Jan 20, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonibradshaw* 







Well, how is it that you are "taking care" of a babe who is crying if you're in the other room? Seems to me these mama's are more concerned about "taking care" of their own needs first.











This makes me ill!!


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

My husband's brother and his wife did CIO...I had to sit there and listen to SIL and AIL talk about letting their kids cry...oh but DN only cried for like 20 minutes the first time...and it was SOOO hard on 'poor SIL' Whaaa...I wanted to shake her and say "If it hurt YOU so bad just WHAT in the sam hill do you think you did to your poor child?"

They said something to me about CIO and I said "Oh, I don't believe in that. I could NEVER do something like that to James." they just rolled their eyes at me and AIL had the nerve to say "Well you don't work so you don't need sleep as badly." WHAT??? First of all...never mind, second of all SIL is a SAHM too...lol

It was on the tip of my tounge to say "My job as a mama doesn't end at 8pm" but I didn't...

Guess it makes a difference that I bf and they FF'ed by choice...all I had to do was roll over they had to do stuff.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

We did "CIO" with a 15 month old daycare boy. We all tried it every other way. (I was doing what they were doing) and he was getting up eight or nine times a night, and only napping 20 minutes at a time.

SOOO.. one day Mom came in with the baby. Mom was in tears and said DH says he can't handle going through this with another baby, and he didn't want any more kids.

Poor lady. I know Dad was just exhausted though. He isn't normally like that.

SO, they laid awake all night discussing what to do and they decided that they would let him cry. They didn't even want to ferberize him. Just let him cry.

GAWD, it was awful. I can't imagine what the nights were like, because naps were horrible. Getting him up at the end of nap was the most crushing feeling. His face was red, he had the hiccups. I apoligised constantly.

But, we did it. (it took FIVE days of this hell) He got through it, and in all honesty, as much as I hate to admit, it.... his whole demeanor changed once he was sleeping and napping.

The whole mess was very traumatic for me though, and there is no way I could have done that to my own child.

I just think there is a better way of doing it, BEFORE it gets out of hand like that. He was a good sleeper as a baby, this was something that started when he got mobile, and slowly got worse until he wasn't sleeping at all.

Four and a half months though, is a little silly. I can understand her exhaustion... but, seriously. The baby is supposed to wake up to eat. I'm glad someone suggested waiting til 6 months. Now, you have time to give her other ideas.


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## PhoenixMommaToTwo (Feb 22, 2006)

That's so sad! We had succumbed to the whole CIO advice with our dd and believe me, that lasted like a minute before my dh and I were both in there with her. I don't understand how someone can listen to a baby get so upset and NOT pick them up







: . My SIL is doing the same thing with her 8 month old, because she thinks he shouldn't be waking as much as he is. I told her that my almost 2 year old is still up a few times a night. (she's bf'ing by the way) She doesn't just do it at night though, she does it all through the day, just lets him cry instead of picking him up, it's horrible! The poor kids never going to feel secure.


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## AGierald (Sep 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *swampangel* 
I don't think it will change until more doctors get educated about this stuff. I can hardly believe how ignorant most doctors seem to be about this. There is one semi-retired doc in our practice who discourages crying...he stresses the importance of establishing that trust that you will be there. Thank god for him...but there are others in that same practice who advocate stretching the time out between feedings when the baby reaches a certain weight. This can be when the babe is a mere two months old! Where do they get this idea that the need to nurse at night has anything at all to do with a baby's weight????







: Is there any research to support this at all? It makes no sense to me....


I truly think these doctors feel this works because they were NOT the ones waking with their children. It was their wives, while they were on call, or whatever they were doing at that time. I am VERY sure they had no hand in raising any babies, and therefore thing "oh, CIO must work because everyone says it does" while they never actually dealt with a baby, ya know?


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## adamsfam07 (Sep 9, 2006)

A very good friend of mine had her baby about a month before I had mine, her Dr. told her at 4 weeks that her baby could sleep through the night without needing to eat. And she should just let the baby cry when she wakes up, she needed to learn to go back to sleep on her own. At 4 Weeks!







: I was heartbroken when my friend told me she was doing as the dr. said. I told her to please stop and try co-sleeping that a baby that young needed to wake up at night to eat. But since I wasn't the dr. she didn't listen. I can't imagine listening to my tiny little baby screaming and crying for me and me just ignoring them. Needless to say this friend of mine and I are not close anymore at all.


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## clavicula (Apr 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
Wow, what an ingrate! If only my ds would only wake up three times a night...I'd be so happy.

yeah that!


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