# Healing the Gut Tribe ~ May



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

I took the liberty of starting the May thread - Hope you'll forgive a newbie if this is a breach in etiquette?









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If you're new to this thread, please check out Jane's cheat sheet at:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?p=4893042

This will help you get in a place where the discussions that are going on are understandable, as well as give you a foothold for where to start in your own healing. Good Luck!
********************
As far as mini roll-call, I started the Introductory SCD (Specific Carbohydrate Diet) this morning, as well as starting my enzymes. I'm feeling optimistic!
My acne has calmed down A LOT since I switched off the Aubrey Organics (with lots of oil) on Saturday - it has me wondering if the gluten and dairy elimination diet would have shown more clear results if I hadn't been trying the new cleanser regime at the same time. Still, the SCD diet will give me a purer answer of what may be causing the problems.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

I'm new to this thread, and I've read the cheat sheet but I must be dense, because I'm really overwhelmed! So I hope you guys don't mind if I jump in and ask a few questions.

I don't know if I have a leaky gut, or if my (9-month old) son does, but here are the minor symptoms we do have. I've had acne and blackheads since I was about ten (25 years!) -- on and off, some times better than others, but I've never had really nice skin. I was on tetracycline (abx) for that for years as a teenager.

I had one or two periods when I was an adolescent, then NOTHING. I was on birth control pills for about ten years. I went off them a few years ago when we decided to get pregnant. Of course nothing happened and we ended up injecting me with hormones/fertility drugs and conceiving via IVF.

I've never had a yeast infection, have had no thrush issues with BF'ing, never have an GI problems, etc.

My son has been very healthy (only one cold so far) and seems like a normal, happy baby, but he was a major spitter-upper, and still does spit up. He's only had a tiny bit of solid food here and there and I consider him EBF. He mostly seems to react to any dairy or soy I eat. (I eat a mostly vegan diet.)

On Friday I started some supplements in the hopes of clearing up my skin: MSM, L-Glutamine, zinc, probiotics, and a digestive enzyme complex. I haven't noticed any difference, but my son has had more restless nights than usual. He has also been waking up needing to pass gas a bit more than usual, and it seems like he's straining to poop and doing so more often.

So...am I on the right track here? Any suggestions? Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read this and has some advice!

ETA: I also have always had a weak constitution -- I don't get really sick a lot, but I often feel run down, and I've never been able to exercise a lot without feeling exhausted (I used to run -- meaning barely jogging! -- and never got past 30 minutes and that was going VERY slowly).


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Welcome NewMama!
I'm really _really_ the newbie here so I don't have an arsenal of advice like the other ladies do, but parts of your experience did corrolate with mine:
My acne goes back to about age 13 (not abnormal) but it has gotten worse with age, and is now at it's absolute worst at age 28. One of the ladies here suggested to me (thank you firefaery!) that my gut could be a problem - my research on the internet showed me that I hit just about every contributing factor for a leaking gut: birth control pills, long-term antibiotic use, lots of refined grains (my acne worsening has correlated with my increase in whole grains and legumes, trying to eat "healthier", and not properly preparing them). I too have never had abnormal yeast issues or GI issues, but I am also starting to question my definition of _normal_.
Some of the ladies here have had luck in healing their gut and their symptoms with just using enzymes and supplements, but I do know that it's much more beneficial to cut out the offending foods and purge the toxins or microbes in your gut that are making the problem continue. There was some discussion on the April thread about enzymes and how it affected kids and bf kids.
Are you vegan out of habit, or is it a choice (spiritual or health?)? If you are open to exploring this issue, I do know that there's a lot of discussion here about vitamin or mineral deficiencies, and different types of healing diets. Most of the diets/food philosphies that are discussed here and that people have had incredible results with are not vegan or vegetarian-based. If you are open to exploring this, you may find a lot of useful information with healing diets.
I was overwhelmed too (and still am!). The other ladies will have some good starting points for you, I'm sure!

ETA: I just posted a "Support for the Intro SCD diet" thread in Nutrition and Good Eating.


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## Ambercrystal (Apr 17, 2006)

i believe acne and numerous issues are directly correlated with how acidic your body is. i have break outs when i get off my diet.

the metabolic typing diet by William Wolcott does a comprehensive job of explianing this- i would read this and get a comprehensive blood work at a wellness center. I recommend Mercola in Schaumburg, Il. www.mercola.com


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Subbing, thanks Shanna!

Oh, thank you, JaneS, for the cheat sheet-it is so helpful, even after all this time of reading these threads, to have it in one place! Great job!


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

subbing and aking a few ?'s before they get buried in a very busy thread, lol.

I think someone mentioned (or maybe it was the thread on bad skin) butters that are better. Was Kerrygold (or is it Kerrigold) mentioned as a grass fed good quality butter? I do have access to grass fed organic butter but it is sooooo expensive. Costco carries the Kerrygold so wondered if it was a good compromise.
Second question is if anyone has done a hair test for leaky gut. I saw them listed on the link given earlier for various tests. Wondering if it is reliable.
Finally, I wondered about muscle tests using enzymes. I am so scared of the enzymes since lots of mamas have problems w/ them (someone replied to me earlier on this to help ease my mind--thanks) so I was thinking of asking my cranio-sacral therapist to do a muscle test w/ the Standard Process enzyme. Thoughts?


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

I think the hair test is mostly for heavy metals, but I'm just parrotting what I _think_ I remember someone saying about it. I spoke with my Family Practitioner about a test for leaky gut, and he was dismissive when he saw that I was doing an elim diet, saying that would give more information than a test could. I'm still not sure if I agree, but by that point in the visit I was feeling like I probably knew more about this than he did, so I let it go.....


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

*Butter*
Kerry Gold is grass fed. I didn't know Costco carried it. I get mine at Trader Joe's. That's what I get for cooking.

*Hair tests*
Some will just give heavy metals, some will give both metals and minerals. Hair mineral levels are good for some minerals but not for others. The tests are about $50 through your doc or closer to $100 through directlabs.com

*AmyD*
I think you should consider that Metametrix electrocyte test which includes minerals and metals. I would start with you and include your son if you've got the cash.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Subbing. I have been lurking along, but thought I would properly introduce myself. I started looking at healing the gut because of a very distended stomach, constipation and gas that I have been dealing with since January. My doctor diagnosised it as IBS, but I am not convinced of that. In any case, I feel like I was finally reading something useful reading Jane's cheat sheet. I have been following Eat to Live since last summer and before that (mostly) vegan, but with more grains.

I have no idea why I got this "condition" all of the sudden, and why it hasn't left, but I finally started making a bit of progress but cutting out all grains and sugar as of a week ago. I have also upped my fat intake. Still have lots of distention, and some sort of inflammation in the beginning of the large intestine.

Probably could ask lots of questions, but will start with this:

Is it worth making yogurt cow's milk dairy with pasteurized milk? I just made cashew yogurt and added some of the Baby Jarrow's probioitics that I have on hand. Thinking about making cococnut yogurt too. I did just make cococnut water kefir and coconut cheese.

Ok, my battery is about to die, so I will leave it there.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

nak
moonshine-Yougart made with pasturized dairy is good. Have you read much about celiacs? It is often confused w/ibs by dr's.

What if we adopted the pecanbread siggy rule and signed with whatever diet we are following and how long we have been doing it? I think that may help us talor responces to each other better w/o having to keep asking who is doing what and for how long etc.

Patty- Fanitical







scd for 10 weeks w/ nursling 2 y-o dd for candidia and suspected celiacs and other auto immune issues. DH does it too for moral support and some gi issues.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

subbing


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Hello there new mamas!
There really isn't a test for leaky gut. You can test for food allergies, heavy metals, mineral deficiencies, amino acid deficiencies and on and on...all of these things will point you in the direction of leaky gut. I dont' know of anything that will come back "positive" for a leaky gut. A test that we did came back so high on yeast and food allergies that my doc said it was clear that it WAS a leaky gut thing...but again you are at square one-why is your gut leaking?

If you have someone who does a great job at muscle testing-do it. In the hands of a skilled practitioner it is a great tool.

I love metabolic testing. It's fascinating and most people are too acidic...but more importantly most people don't eat THEIR proper diet. I'm one of them. I jsut took the testing (for the third time...now I'll listen!) and I always come out an extreme protein type-fabulous for a vegan, no? Yeah. It was one of the many wake up calls that I needed.

New mama- you are definitely on the right track! Sounds like your little one is starting some die off. Hopefully we can help you out!

I am a non-fanatical SCDer with the help of enzymes, supplements and homeopathy. We started SCD last year (August?) and have gotten progressively looser with our foods as we saw improvement. I plan on going back to the beginning to see if celiac disease can truly be cured.


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

I am trying to get an order together-and qualify for free ship









Any rec's for a compliment to BTVC? We will be moving to NT-have that-once we heal. Cookbooks, science behind the diet types-thanks!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Compliment in the way of info or recipes?


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## Ambercrystal (Apr 17, 2006)

i have done it all. the best test by far is metabolic typing questionaire, comprehensive blood work at a wellenss center in conjuction with saliva testing (thyroid and hormone)

Muscle testing is great check and balance to confirm issues in the blood work as well as for heavy metals which can be used in conjuction with a hair analysis. a hair analysis is a good idea only if you have someone very experienced in explaining what it all means. For example, i had toxic levels of mercury on mine as well as elevated copper. The muscle testing also suggested this. it made sense because i only ate fish and vegetables for 2 years prior. i also went to a biological dentist and i didn't have any mercury in my mouth. the only other issue could be from childhood vaccinations. turns out the high level of copper is triggered by long term use of birth control! In any event, there is a six month time lag on the hair so my body could just be getting rid of it. regardless, i decided to do a detox. more details www.mercola.com

as far as grass fed products, http://www.grasslandbeef.com/index.html-

wonderful resource.

With respect to constipation, U probably have a magnesium MALATE defciency and not eating the right way for metabolic type. can go to mercola. com or The metabolic typing diet- by wolcott- CHANGED MY LIFE

for all the above tests, i would go to Mercola.com


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Bubbles*
Finally, I wondered about muscle tests using enzymes. I am so scared of the enzymes since lots of mamas have problems w/ them (someone replied to me earlier on this to help ease my mind--thanks) so I was thinking of asking my cranio-sacral therapist to do a muscle test w/ the Standard Process enzyme. Thoughts?
This is how we began our journey toward healing the gut. (Well, that and reading lots of posts by JaneS!)









Our homeopath, through muscle testing, determined dd to have a weak gut. (Me too but we were focusing on her.) He gave us our first jar of enzymes. It can't hurt to have muscle testing done but I would say not to worry about them at all. If you start very SLOWLY, you'll be okay. The key is slowly.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Somebody from another group just forwarded this to me:
http://altmedicine.about.com/od/heal...stLeakyGut.htm

Quote:

There's a third way substances can pass through. The spaces in between the cells that line the intestines are normally sealed. These tight junctions are called desmosomes. When the intestinal lining becomes irritated, the junctions loosen and allow unwanted larger molecules in the intestines to pass through into the blood. These unwanted substances are seen by the immune system as foreign (because they aren't normally present in blood).
This is exactly what dd's allergist/immunologist explained. I was so excited that he actually understood leaky gut!

more. . .

Quote:

*Leaky gut syndrome is associated with the following conditions:*
Autoimmune disease

Celiac disease

Crohn's disease

Environmental illness

Hives

Acne

Allergies

Inflammatory joint disease / arthritis

Intestinal infections

Pancreatic insufficiency

Ulcerative colitis

Giardia

Chronic fatigue syndrome

Eczema

Psoriasis

Food allergies and sensitivities

Liver dysfunction

Rheumatoid arthritis

Irritable bowel syndrome

*Causes of Leaky Gut Syndrome / Intestinal Permeability*
Chronic stress

Intestinal infections

Small intestine bacterial overgrowth

Environmental contaminants

Excess alcohol

Poor diet

NSAIDS and other medications


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Hmmm, I'm going to read more about this and post later...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Re: starting enzymes:
http://www.enzymestuff.com/basicsdosing.htm


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Compliment in the way of info or recipes?

Umm, yes to both! Ex.-EFLF? Worth it or borrow from library?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Re: CLO
Patty, Jane, anybody???

How does this stack up with what the WAP foundation says about how much a nursing mom should take? I take one packet a day. Should I be taking more?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

A little OT:
Just got the book N&PD and plan on reading it while on vacation!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Re: CLO
Patty, Jane, anybody???

How does this stack up with what the WAP foundation says about how much a nursing mom should take? I take one packet a day. Should I be taking more?

DHA level is great, vit A and D are too low. Definitely finish the packet and then get a higher vitamin brand. I take Nordic Naturals because I take very high doses, so I am not sure what people take who just take a regular dose.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I give this one to dd some. Ideally she should be getting 3-5 packets a day of this. I also give her the carlsons though and that has higher vitamins. For a nursing mom you should be getting 15 to 20 packets a day for the right ammount of vitamin A and D. I got the ice blue clo and take 1 tbsp a day (equal to the vitamin A in that entire box)


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Thanks for all the info on the hair testing. I saw the specific hair test for leaky gut and wondered how it worked. It makes more sense to me.
Thanks also for additional info/support/encouragement on enzymes. I bookmarked the site and am reading as I have time. It is really helping me to choose what I need. I think I will go ahead and do the muscle testing just because my cs therapist will do it for free when I take my little guy in for some work. I'll have her do him too just for the heck of it.

Sybil-just starting on the journey for acne and intestinal issues. Contemplating SCD (ordered the book) but seeing some improvement w/ eliminating some grains and sugar.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

subbing...

How do you afford to take the recommended amount of CLO? I take 1 tsp/day of the Blue Ice high vitamin, which is about 1/2 of what I'm supposed to take, but that stuff is just too expensive, especially since I'm taking a bunch of other expensive supplements (enzymes, probiotics, etc), too.


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## sammysmammy (Nov 21, 2002)

subbing......


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

de-lurking for a moment

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
There really isn't a test for leaky gut. ..... <snip> .....

Great Smokies Lab offers a test for intestinal permeability/malabsorption and it tells you (a) if you have leaky gut and (b) if you have malabsorption (you can have both simultaneously). DirectLabs marks up the cost... I paid only $65 through my ND for this test (I don't recommend it for unpotty trained diaper-wearers as it involves urine collection over a 6-hour period). This appears to be a pretty standard test to determine the degree of intestinal permeability and seems to be the gold standard of tests - quite a number of studies in the scientific realm use this particular test.

Metametrix offers a test for dysbiosis which would seem to suggest leaky gut (if you're leaky, then you probably have dysbiosis, no?). This test looks at the gut microorganisms that are present in urine - presumably if you have a leaky gut, your gut critters will be floating willy nilly into your body where they don't typically reside.

most of the (western) science of intestinal permeability (IP) has to do with the effect of drugs on IP though some studies consider IP in relation to surgery or liver disorders. not surprisingly, not many (western) studies examine dysbiosis (or dysbacteriosis) - most of that research is from the USSR/Russia (does anybody here read Russian?!)/Eastern Europe. a good free article or three to read:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.thorne.com/pdf/journal/2-...rmiability.pdf

http://www.thorne.com/pdf/journal/2-3/dysbiosis.pdf

as for why one has leaky gut... well, increased intestinal permeability is often linked with physical trauma from burns, surgery, hemorraghic shock and other physical trauma. i'm wondering when docs will consider labor to be physical trauma and look at how many mamas (and babes) have increased intestinal permeability after birth.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

It looks like the urine test is pretty reliable! Good to know, and an easier test for sure.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I'd bet though that if you *think* you've got leaky gut, you probably do.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Firefaery, at the risk of sounding like an anxious newbie, lol -- do you remember how long it took after starting your regimen you noticed a positive difference in your skin? I'm just wondering if I should be giving this weeks or months or? Thanks.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*

*AmyD*
I think you should consider that Metametrix electrocyte test which includes minerals and metals. I would start with you and include your son if you've got the cash.

Interesting. What are you thinking in regards to electrocytes? (Which I admittedly have never head of







) And where can I find this test, searching has come up empty.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I'd bet though that if you *think* you've got leaky gut, you probably do.

hee hee... i didn't think i did.... then i did the urine test and the ND was surprised in an odd excited sort of way...


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I just suck it up and pay for it. I figure to get that much vitamin A I would be taking way more of a lower priced product (and I won't do really cheap fish oil cause I'm nervous about heavy metals). The carlsons I think I would need to take 10 or more a day. The Nordic naturals It was the entire box! Blue ice is way cheaper if you break it down like that. I wanna get better as quickly as I can. This diet is hard and expensive. If adding $20 a month to the bill gets us done several months faster I'm all for it.

We are considering going to one car for our family. Not something either of us is thrilled with but money has got to come from somewhere...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Does anyone know if Odwala or Naked 100% juices are SCD legal? I'd like to try making juice kefir (I know kefir's not legal) but am not sure what juice to use. It makes more sense to use a juice that actually needs to be refrigerated than a shelf stable ultra pasturized one. Plus I wouldn't mind having juice every once in a while for a treat.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I just suck it up and pay for it. I figure to get that much vitamin A I would be taking way more of a lower priced product (and I won't do really cheap fish oil cause I'm nervous about heavy metals). The carlsons I think I would need to take 10 or more a day. The Nordic naturals It was the entire box! Blue ice is way cheaper if you break it down like that. I wanna get better as quickly as I can. This diet is hard and expensive. If adding $20 a month to the bill gets us done several months faster I'm all for it.

We are considering going to one car for our family. Not something either of us is thrilled with but money has got to come from somewhere...

So are you planning on using less CLO once you are healed? I don't mind paying more if I can see an end in sight, but thinking of going through a couple of bottles a month for conceivably the next 5-7 years (until I'm doing having babies and nursing) is hard to swallow. And that would just be for me, not to mention how much I would need for DH if I can get him to take it, and for kids once they're old enough for it.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I will cut back on how much I take once we are healed but I will still take probably 2 tsp worth a day while I am pg/nursing. I just don't want to risk a future child going through this too. But I currently take 1 tbsp or more a day so that is cutting back. For your dh he should be taking 1 tsp a day of it. My dh won't take it cause he wants to save money. :eyeroll I feel much better when I take it. It seems to soothe my stomach pretty quickly so I rarely forget.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Patty, where do you get yours & how much do you pay?


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Interesting. What are you thinking in regards to electrocytes? (Which I admittedly have never head of







) And where can I find this test, searching has come up empty.

right here

And I noticed yesterday that Doctor's Data has an equivalent. It's a red blood cell test and one of the better tests for mineral levels. It's not the best for magnesium, but it's better than most. And magnesium is a bugger anyway.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I got it from greenpasture.org
I got the special 3 jars butter oil and 3 jars CLO It was a lot of money. If you get the clo by the case it is just 13.90 a jar. I think that is what I am going to do next time. DH has said I can't get the butter oil again.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I just got back from talking w/the lady who picks up our raw milk, butter, grassfed etc. and the farms actually sells Blue Ice for only $15 a jar. I think that's pretty good. Gonna get some in 2 weeks.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
DHA level is great, vit A and D are too low. Definitely finish the packet and then get a higher vitamin brand. I take Nordic Naturals because I take very high doses, so I am not sure what people take who just take a regular dose.

How do you know how much you need to take for particular cases? Maybe this is in the cheat sheet somewhere and I missed it? I feel a bit confused as the more I read the more I feel like I don't know what to do with the CLO!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Bluets, thank you for that awesome post!

Links to Great Smokies (they are now called Genova) tests and Metametrix tests for leaky gut are on the cheat sheet. I'll have to add the red blood cell erythrocyte one from Metametrix that Amanda mentioned.

Also, a leaky gut in a newborn is normal and natural. Exclusive bf'ing is supposed to lay down the probiotics and immunoglobulins to seal it up. Drugs/antibiotics, formula supplementation, vaccines, etc. interfere with this. So what, like .05% of babies probably get really exclusive bm?









And undoubtedly the condition of the breastmilk/gut/nutrition in the mama effects the babe's gut sealing up too, the more I read.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Re: CLO
Patty, Jane, anybody???

How does this stack up with what the WAP foundation says about how much a nursing mom should take? I take one packet a day. Should I be taking more?

WAPF says a tablespoon a day of high vitamin CLO, which would mean about 15,000 - 20,000 IU of A. So at least 3 packets for the DHA/EPA probably but then the A and D is still too low. To take higher doses to get the right amount of A would be too much omega 3 fatty acids in the diet and NT has warned against same. However, more may be in order given other factors (depression, autoimmune conditions, etc.) and the therapeutic dose for those issues. Some info here on dosing: http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...-oil-menu.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I'm new to this thread, and I've read the cheat sheet but I must be dense, because I'm really overwhelmed! So I hope you guys don't mind if I jump in and ask a few questions.

I don't know if I have a leaky gut, or if my (9-month old) son does, but here are the minor symptoms we do have. I've had acne and blackheads since I was about ten (25 years!) -- on and off, some times better than others, but I've never had really nice skin. I was on tetracycline (abx) for that for years as a teenager.

I had one or two periods when I was an adolescent, then NOTHING. I was on birth control pills for about ten years. I went off them a few years ago when we decided to get pregnant. Of course nothing happened and we ended up injecting me with hormones/fertility drugs and conceiving via IVF.

I've never had a yeast infection, have had no thrush issues with BF'ing, never have an GI problems, etc.

My son has been very healthy (only one cold so far) and seems like a normal, happy baby, but he was a major spitter-upper, and still does spit up. He's only had a tiny bit of solid food here and there and I consider him EBF. He mostly seems to react to any dairy or soy I eat. (I eat a mostly vegan diet.)

On Friday I started some supplements in the hopes of clearing up my skin: MSM, L-Glutamine, zinc, probiotics, and a digestive enzyme complex. I haven't noticed any difference, but my son has had more restless nights than usual. He has also been waking up needing to pass gas a bit more than usual, and it seems like he's straining to poop and doing so more often.

So...am I on the right track here? Any suggestions? Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read this and has some advice!

ETA: I also have always had a weak constitution -- I don't get really sick a lot, but I often feel run down, and I've never been able to exercise a lot without feeling exhausted (I used to run -- meaning barely jogging! -- and never got past 30 minutes and that was going VERY slowly).









Welcome!

It takes time to absorb all this, I've been at it for years now! I really believe if your bf child reacts to dairy or soy you have leaky gut, but don't really know that for sure, there hasn't been any research on this.

The "weak constitution" issue says to me that you are suffering vitamin and mineral deficiencies or perhaps thyroid issues which can absolutely lead to all these symptoms.

I'm struck by you and the other new poster today that both have vegan backgrounds (I was mostly vegan as well). Today my reading has absolutely convinced me that this is one of the main factors that led me and many others down this road. I ate a lot of processed soy which can lead to mineral and digestive enzyme deficiencies very quickly due to the phytate content. Also soy really messes with your thyroid too.

I've been reading alot about fat lately and the vegetable oils (soy, corn, canola) really hinders your ability to produce hormones and essential fatty acids and have been attributed to increasing fertility issues in modern times. I very much think getting off all vegetable oils did wonders for my skin. Because thinking back, that is the first change I made even before kefir/yogurt everyday, which was the next step I think. This was even before SCD. I also have never really had nice skin since puberty either and I do now.

I don't think probiotic capsules are enough to heal unless you have a lot of money and are able to take a bottle a week or more. I think you need the amounts in homemade kefir/yogurt.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Shanna,

Thank you for starting this month's thread!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Subbing. I have been lurking along, but thought I would properly introduce myself. I started looking at healing the gut because of a very distended stomach, constipation and gas that I have been dealing with since January. My doctor diagnosised it as IBS, but I am not convinced of that. In any case, I feel like I was finally reading something useful reading Jane's cheat sheet. I have been following Eat to Live since last summer and before that (mostly) vegan, but with more grains.

I have no idea why I got this "condition" all of the sudden, and why it hasn't left, but I finally started making a bit of progress but cutting out all grains and sugar as of a week ago. I have also upped my fat intake. Still have lots of distention, and some sort of inflammation in the beginning of the large intestine.

Probably could ask lots of questions, but will start with this:

Is it worth making yogurt cow's milk dairy with pasteurized milk? I just made cashew yogurt and added some of the Baby Jarrow's probioitics that I have on hand. Thinking about making cococnut yogurt too. I did just make cococnut water kefir and coconut cheese.









Welcome!

Gas and distention means you are not digesting your food properly. Like I said above, I think a vegan diet can contribute to this. Unsoaked whole grains and soy have huge amounts of digestive enzyme inhibitors.

IBS means nothing to most doctors. It means they don't know what you have. However, there is actually some mainstream research showing it is SIBO, Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth... an intestinal flora issue. I posted several months back an interesting article on this at Medscape I think. This can definately be the cause of the inflammation you feel in the upper part of your intestine. I had this too, feeling like you have a bit of a shelf right?

However, again, modern medicine mostly denies the intestinal flora role in digestive health and doesn't know what to do with it, despite the fact that it is the cornerstone of our immune and digestive system, weighs over 3 lbs in a normal adult and acts like another organ in its function.... we would die if our gi tract was sterilized.

Yes I think pasteurized milk yogurt is indeed helpful. That is what the SCD is based on, they strictly forbid raw milk yogurt. However, Baby Jarrow is just bifidobacterium I think, for the large intestine and evidence is that lactobacillus for the small intestine is what's needed for the digestive issues that you are experiencing.

Re: coconut
While reading my new favorite book _*Eat Fat, Lose Fat*_ I think the major reasons why Firefaery and I have gotten well rather more quickly than SCD says, is liberal use of coconut oil. Will be posting more about this in a bit.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Welcome!

It takes time to absorb all this, I've been at it for years now! I really believe if your bf child reacts to dairy or soy you have leaky gut, but don't really know that for sure, there hasn't been any research on this.

The "weak constitution" issue says to me that you are suffering vitamin and mineral deficiencies or perhaps thyroid issues which can absolutely lead to all these symptoms.

I'm struck by you and the other new poster today that both have vegan backgrounds (I was mostly vegan as well). Today my reading has absolutely convinced me that this is one of the main factors that led me and many others down this road. I ate a lot of processed soy which can lead to mineral and digestive enzyme deficiencies very quickly due to the phytate content. Also soy really messes with your thyroid too.

I've been reading alot about fat lately and the vegetable oils (soy, corn, canola) really hinders your ability to produce hormones and essential fatty acids and have been attributed to increasing fertility issues in modern times. I very much think getting off all vegetable oils did wonders for my skin. Because thinking back, that is the first change I made even before kefir/yogurt everyday, which was the next step I think. This was even before SCD. I also have never really had nice skin since puberty either and I do now.

I don't think probiotic capsules are enough to heal unless you have a lot of money and are able to take a bottle a week or more. I think you need the amounts in homemade kefir/yogurt.

Thanks for your comments. I have to admit I am very resistant to giving up veganism. I did become vegan for mostly health reasons, but I really love the positive consequences to animals and the environment as well. I did a LOT of research on diets and food and health on my journey to being vegan, and I feel pretty strongly that this way of eating is the "right" way.

Not to say that if Henry had any of the issues some of you dedicated Mamas are dealing with I wouldn't eat meat and dairy if I thought that would help him.

Sigh. Why does this have to be so hard and confusing? It's just food! We should just be able to eat when we're hungry and not have to think about it so much!

(By the way, I've always had a weak constitution and have been a vegan for only three years, and a vegetarian for a total of ten years...so does that still correlate?)

Anyway, I am trying to remain open-minded and do my best to inform myself. I really appreciate the information and support here. I'm just so overwhelmed and really don't know where to start...someone needs to tell me exactly what to do, step by step, lol!

I do have one specific question...I was reading on this site about the Houston Nutraceuticals products Peptizyde, Zyme Prime and No-Fenol -- can an adult take them and would my baby get the effects through my breastmilk? Or is it just that I would digest my food better, thus not passing the unwanted particles into my bloodstream and on to my baby via my breastmilk?

I really wish I had paid more attention to biology in high school. Who knew?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Just posted this in Cheat Sheet but wanted to make sure everyone here saw it too:

_*Eat Fat, Lose Fat*_
by Dr. Mary Enig and Sally Fallon

The "Health Recovery" diet in the book is not for weight loss. It is for healing a number of autoimmune conditions including serious or not so serious digestive disorders:

Recovery from surgery, life-threatening illness, debilitated weak condition, chemotherapy, malnutrition.
Adrenal Weakness/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Allergies/Hay Fever
Asthma
ADD
Constipation
Diabetes and Insulin Resistance
Emotional Problems: Anxiety, Depression, Mood Swings
Fungal Infections/Candida
Gallbladder Ailments
Hormonal Imbalances/Women's Diseases
Hypoglycemia
Immune System/Autoimmune Disorders
IBS/Colitis/Crohn's Disease
Skin Problems: Eczema, Dry Skin, Wrinkles, Scaly Patches, Hair Loss
Thyroid Imbalance
Viral Infections: Epstein-Barr, Herpes, HIV/AIDS
http://www.eatfatlosefat.com/test-healthrecovery.html

The HR diet is based on a lot of coconut oil and coconut milk, lacto-fermented foods and beverages (kefir sodas and yogurt), and lots of homemade bone broth. They recommend raw milk and kefir/yogurt but there is a high calcium milk alternative made from coconut milk and KAL dolomite powder if you are allergic to dairy. And the fermented foods and kefir sodas are great dairy free sources of probiotics.

Also includes eggs, meat, liver (or just dessicated liver tablets), fish, cod liver oil, high vitamin butter oil, animal fats, vegetables, natural vitamin C from amla or acerola powder and only one serving of soaked grains/day. Swedish bitters or apple cider vinegar for liver and digestive support.

I'm going to try to do this diet in a couple weeks and then move to a modified form of it. I'm back on grains but don't want to go nuts on them and risk relapsing. And I feel the need for direction right now.









After reading this book I'm utterly re-convinced about the power of coconut oil, it's amazing stuff. Anti fungal, anti viral and anti bacterial. If you are not eating it right now, you should be!! Especially good for bf'ing mamas b/c then your bm will contain more monolaurin, the protective form of lauric acid, for your babe.

The cheapest CO I've found is my buying club co-op, 52 oz of Nutiva for $18. Very little fruit and veggies on this diet and tons and tons of coconut and bone broths. Literally like 10 T. of coconut oil or it's equivalent in milk a day! (The regular rec. for coconut oil is 3 1/2 T. day for an adult to see benefits).

Firefaery,
Did you ever taste Mountain Rose Herbs coconut oil, don't they have like a gallon for under $30?


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
While reading my new favorite book _*Eat Fat, Lose Fat*_ I think the major reasons why Firefaery and I have gotten well rather more quickly than SCD says, is liberal use of coconut oil. Will be posting more about this in a bit.

I'm interested to hear more about this.

ETA: Nevermind, you were too quick!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
JaneS--can I just take extra cod liver oil instead of giving it to DD for her eczema? I don't really feel comfortable giving supplements to a baby that's not even old enough for solids.

Absolutely, fats are one of the most unique foods pertaining to bm composition. Meaning the types of fats you eat directly pass through to bm (because they are whole in your bloodstream.) So this means both good and bad fats. At least a tablespoon a day of CLO is recommended for pg/bf'ing mamas.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*

Firefaery,
Did you ever taste Mountain Rose Herbs coconut oil, don't they have like a gallon for under $30?

This wasn't addressed to me, but...I bought some from Mountain Rose Herbs--it was $35 including shipping. As far as I can tell (I've only ever had theirs and NOW brand) it is great--smells coconutty and tastes good.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

re: coconut oil

I am loving coconut oil. I use it in baking almost everything but I didn't know you can mix it into milk and drink it. (?) Jane, did I read that right? What other ways can you use it?


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Literally like 10 T. of coconut oil or it's equivalent in milk a day! (The regular rec. for coconut oil is 3 1/2 T. day for an adult to see benefits).

How would you eat this? Smoothies? Eggs?

Thanks


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
My lil' guy is 17m and barely eating. Waiting on the food allergy and enviromental tests to come back (sleep apnea and very very frequent nightwaking gasping for air). Oh, he also has a lil' rash too (and he is EC'd) so probably the enzymes over here too
 






Well, he just developed a umbilical hernia (he had surgery at 6w for an inguinal hernia), sigh. So another surgery might be in his future, but this is not life threatening like the inguinal one.

But I regress.

We had the house deleaded before I was pregnant w/him. New windows, gov't grant and loan, excellent program, certified lead abatement contractors. Well, he just got tested and his lead is at 14 (venous). His iron is at 11 (normal is 70-100) and hemoglobin is at 9. I need ideas. (And a bigger plate to put all of this one, mine's gettin' crowded







) We just bought the gluten-free floradix, floravital, and started that yesterday. He won't eat red meat (which I've been trying to push for weeks). I'm thinking about getting some organic grass-fed liver and after the 14 days of frozen, grating it up and just putting it on my finger and sneakin' it in his cheek (which works for everything). Our dr. wants to put him on a prescription iron supplement and while I understand that his iron is incredibly low, I'm not sure how a supplement that is ridiculously hard on his system and unabsorbable, will help. Not to mention the crap (and SCD illegials) that will be in it.

Sigh.

Oh Amy!!
















Supposedly grated frozen liver tastes like berries, so some put it in smoothies. Pasture fed egg yolks are a great source of iron too, mix them into everything. Vitamins A and D are vital to iron absorbtion too. So push the CLO and butter. Inorganic iron is quite toxic, I wouldn't do it. That's probably what is in px?

Isn't calcium supplementation used to displace lead in bones? Amanda uses some special bovine hoof stuff. The WAPF people recommend KAL dolomite powder.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2zsel*
How would you eat this? Smoothies? Eggs?

Thanks

1 - 2 T. of CO before meals in hot water or herbal tea.

Coconut milk, or raw milk with melted coconut oil for 2 snacks/day.

Plus smoothies, coconut milk in soups made with bone broths for meals and cooking with it, eggs, oatmeal, stir frys, coconut shreds.

Full fat coconut milk is actually pretty high in oil equivalent: almost 5 T/can I think from Bruce Fife's book but it's been a while since I've read it.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

(patty--we went down to one car too. i was freaked at first, but now it's no big deal. don't miss it!)

i take 4 tsps of clo a day. i'm stingy w/ it with dh, and very careful not to spill too much when trying to get it down the girls, but i figure bf'ing two, i should take it. it is pricey.

we are a month into SCD (6 weeks on scd legal only, and no sugar for a few months)--the girls (16 months) poos are finally getting better, but nowhere near what i imagine to be normal. and now i'm a little constipated, due i think to the fact that i made myself almond butter cookies (blanche, soaked, crisped, made in =to butter, and DID NOT SHARE!)--at least they lasted close to four days







. anywhay, i think i'm not getting enough carbs. so i need help figuring out where to go next. so far, they seem to tolerate all forms of squash. they seem okay with green pepper and brocolli and asparagus and cauliflower. they are NOT fine with peas--they wouldn't go to sleep at all.

can i give them the applesauce i just made? (i made it awhile back, but i ate it all myself bc they didn't seem ready.)

can i add cheese? i added it once before, but it coincided with a tummy bug (i think). it doesn't seem like raw cheddar would give diarrhea, does it? i'd really like some cheese. tell me now is the time for cheese, please.

and then i just add in the nuts? try a banana pancake here and there? i'm so clueless. and all i do is cook. sigh.

does anyone (jane, firefaery, patty?) happen to have a log of what they ate when--or, rather, what their babes ate when? i know it's trial and error, but it would really help to kow that someone else a month in was still eating such a limited amount. i bought the maker's diet hoping for some guidance about introducing foods, but it hasn't helped. if anyone could pm me a food log--or post it here--i'd be very grateful.

oh--and seeds. iread somewhere not to add seeds til 3 months, but is that sunflower seeds vs seeds in zucchini? when can i stop deseeding the zucchini? again, i know it's trial and error; i just hate not to deseed and go back to diarrhea again.

thanks for any input! and keep up the good work, mamas!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

OK I need ideas on how to eat the coconut oil. I tried frying my eggs in it but didn't like it. I'm stumped though! I just realized that i could be replacing the butter in the muffin recipe with this. I have a whole case of the stuff and can't figure out how to eat it. Should I get that book? Will that give me ideas?
I did get some ghee and am loving using that for cooking.

Oh and I made icecream last night. 1/2 cup berries 1 cup heavy cream yougurt, 1/2 cup reg yogurt, honey (1/2 cup?) and vanilla. It was SOOOOOO GOOD!!!! YUMMMMMMYYYYYY!!!! DH and I ate the entire batch.







I would eat this anyhow. Oh and I got the grain free gormet book. Really good recipes in there. And a warning to those using the recipes in btvc. I think she tends to way under estimate the salt. I have had to at least double it in ever recipe in that book (and I'm not a big salt lover, I usually half salt in recipes).

I didn't realize that taking 1 tbsp of the blue ice was the minimum for nursing. Hmmm... Should I be taking more for healing? What about the butter oil? Is the 1/2 tsp a day enough? I can't find any info on how much of that to take.

Still thinking I should do the raw liver but skeeved out by it and haven't tried it yet. We are eating a ton of lamb lately so hopefully that is helping my anemia.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:

That is what the SCD is based on, they strictly forbid raw milk yogurt.
what what what? you're kidding me. i'm making the yogurt with raw milk that i heat to 180. did i read this wrong?

it would explain a lot. please tell me if i need to go to regular pasteurized milk.

(btw--i'm reading eat fat to lose fat too--good stuff. i went and bought coconut milk to make coconut pudding and THEN saw i need to wait 5 more months before trying it. sigh.)


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
(patty--we went down to one car too. i was freaked at first, but now it's no big deal. don't miss it!)

i take 4 tsps of clo a day. i'm stingy w/ it with dh, and very careful not to spill too much when trying to get it down the girls, but i figure bf'ing two, i should take it. it is pricey.

we are a month into SCD (6 weeks on scd legal only, and no sugar for a few months)--the girls (16 months) poos are finally getting better, but nowhere near what i imagine to be normal. and now i'm a little constipated, due i think to the fact that i made myself almond butter cookies (blanche, soaked, crisped, made in =to butter, and DID NOT SHARE!)--at least they lasted close to four days







. anywhay, i think i'm not getting enough carbs. so i need help figuring out where to go next. so far, they seem to tolerate all forms of squash. they seem okay with green pepper and brocolli and asparagus and cauliflower. they are NOT fine with peas--they wouldn't go to sleep at all.

can i give them the applesauce i just made? (i made it awhile back, but i ate it all myself bc they didn't seem ready.)

can i add cheese? i added it once before, but it coincided with a tummy bug (i think). it doesn't seem like raw cheddar would give diarrhea, does it? i'd really like some cheese. tell me now is the time for cheese, please.

and then i just add in the nuts? try a banana pancake here and there? i'm so clueless. and all i do is cook. sigh.

does anyone (jane, firefaery, patty?) happen to have a log of what they ate when--or, rather, what their babes ate when? i know it's trial and error, but it would really help to kow that someone else a month in was still eating such a limited amount. i bought the maker's diet hoping for some guidance about introducing foods, but it hasn't helped. if anyone could pm me a food log--or post it here--i'd be very grateful.

oh--and seeds. iread somewhere not to add seeds til 3 months, but is that sunflower seeds vs seeds in zucchini? when can i stop deseeding the zucchini? again, i know it's trial and error; i just hate not to deseed and go back to diarrhea again.

thanks for any input! and keep up the good work, mamas!

I gave dd what we ate. I figured with her nursing 12+ times a day she was getting what I ate anyhow. I did go with just goat dairy for about a month for dd and me. Hmmm... Coconut was the first nutty thing we tried and it didn't work real well. I think we added nut flour by week 3 or so. I kept adding stuff in but didn't progress to uncooked/unseeded/unpeeled untill I saw improvement. If I had seen regression with any food I probably would have backed off but lack of improvement meant I kept going. Try to look at the big picture. I'm needing to try coconut again. Mmmmm macaroons... AF is here and I'm craving cookies.







I have no log. I should but I don't.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Nicolena- You are pasturizing your raw milk yougart when you heat it that much. you are fine. True raw milk yougart, you never heat the milk past 110 or so.

I'm really intrigued by the coconut oil. Hmmmm..... Might have to put that book on my wishlist....


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*

The "Health Recovery" diet in the book is not for weight loss. It is for healing a number of autoimmune conditions including serious or not so serious digestive disorders:

The HR diet is based on a lot of coconut oil and coconut milk, lacto-fermented foods and beverages (kefir sodas and yogurt), and lots of homemade bone broth. They recommend raw milk and kefir/yogurt but there is a high calcium milk alternative made from coconut milk and KAL dolomite powder if you are allergic to dairy. And the fermented foods and kefir sodas are great dairy free sources of probiotics.

Also includes eggs, meat, liver (or just dessicated liver tablets), fish, cod liver oil, high vitamin butter oil, animal fats, vegetables, natural vitamin C from amla or acerola powder and only one serving of soaked grains/day. Swedish bitters or apple cider vinegar for liver and digestive support.

Do you think it would be beneficial to combine this with SCD (add in kefir sodas & do lacto-fermented foods early) or would it be better to just stick to the SCD?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
oh--and seeds. iread somewhere not to add seeds til 3 months, but is that sunflower seeds vs seeds in zucchini? when can i stop deseeding the zucchini? again, i know it's trial and error; i just hate not to deseed and go back to diarrhea again.


Somebody posted on the pecanbread forum that you don't have to de-seed small zucchini...not sure if that's accurate or not.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Nicolena- You are pasturizing your raw milk yougart when you heat it that much. you are fine. True raw milk yougart, you never heat the milk past 110 or so.

I'm really intrigued by the coconut oil. Hmmmm..... Might have to put that book on my wishlist....

Does anyone do raw milk yogurt? Why is it illegal? I plan to do raw milk yogurt if I can ever do dairy again...I do raw honey too even if that is not legal. It just seems like it is better to get the benefits of the enzymes that are in the raw forms.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Welcome!

Gas and distention means you are not digesting your food properly. Like I said above, I think a vegan diet can contribute to this. Unsoaked whole grains and soy have huge amounts of digestive enzyme inhibitors.

IBS means nothing to most doctors. It means they don't know what you have. However, there is actually some mainstream research showing it is SIBO, Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth... an intestinal flora issue. I posted several months back an interesting article on this at Medscape I think. This can definately be the cause of the inflammation you feel in the upper part of your intestine. I had this too, feeling like you have a bit of a shelf right?

However, again, modern medicine mostly denies the intestinal flora role in digestive health and doesn't know what to do with it, despite the fact that it is the cornerstone of our immune and digestive system, weighs over 3 lbs in a normal adult and acts like another organ in its function.... we would die if our gi tract was sterilized.

Yes I think pasteurized milk yogurt is indeed helpful. That is what the SCD is based on, they strictly forbid raw milk yogurt. However, Baby Jarrow is just bifidobacterium I think, for the large intestine and evidence is that lactobacillus for the small intestine is what's needed for the digestive issues that you are experiencing.

Re: coconut
While reading my new favorite book _*Eat Fat, Lose Fat*_ I think the major reasons why Firefaery and I have gotten well rather more quickly than SCD says, is liberal use of coconut oil. Will be posting more about this in a bit.


The curious thing is that my "problem" (outrageously distended stomach and constipation) happened AFTER I cut out a lot of grains and almost all soy.







Years ago I found out enough about the dangers of soy and cut way back. I did discover that I had less gas.







Since doing Eat to Live, I cut way back on grains, although didn't cut them out completely. My current GI stuff came about 7 months into doing E2L.

Like New Mama, I am also hesitant start eating meat. I won't say never, but I am really torn about it. I read everyone's posts and believe you when you say you are healing, but I do struggle with the thought of eating meat. Even as a child and growing up, I was a reluctant meat eater. Except for beef. I liked that rare.







I did love dairy and would never have believed that I would ever give up cheese. I never did completely. Interestingly, we did have raw milk during my teenage years.

The point where I feel that there could be inflammation, as in it hurts upon palpation, is where the large intestine starts, so my lower right abdomin. I just got Mothering today, and one of the letters discusses ileocecal valve syndrome, which from reading it sounds very possibly my problem. To be fixed with chiropractic care or taking liquid chlorophyll every day. Here is the link, if anyone is interested. I haven't checked it out yet. I am headed there next. I am not sure if it addresses the fact that my stomach distends _without my feeling it_ immediately upon eating. Sure I have the physical body feeling that my stomach is way larger than it should be, but I don't have any cramping, gas pains, nothing.

I did buy dairy kefir today -- the recommended brand from the BED website. I was reminded how I don't really care for the taste. I only have the powder starter right now which I used for the coconut and need to get some grains.

That is excellent news about the coconut, as I will happily consume more fat. I made a rockin coconut curry sauce tonight.







Even DD ate it, despite it being a bit spicy. She has also been drinking the kefir with me. I don't think that she has real issues other than at almost 4.5 still not sleeping through the night and a tendency towards circles under her eyes.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

WOW-go away for a day and you miss so much!
An interesting thought...
At an ACTLC lecture a naturopath (who worked for Great Smokies for 7 years) stated that immune cells during pregnancy migrate from the gut to the breast tissue. So clearly the mother's gut health has alot to do with baby's gut health. Infants should have leaky gut, as Jane said, but the mother's milk SHOULD be working to heal that. It won't do it's job if mama has a damaged gut. IT's one of the reason's we know that if a baby is reacting to a food, it's really mama that is reacting-just probably compensating in a different way.

Jane:
I don't eat the oil from MRH, jsut use it for body care and other things that are external...making lotions and things. I eat the Nutiva. ANd yes, I easily go through about five pounds a month. A 9 pound tub will last almost 2 months. YUM. I use it for so many things, but about five TBS. end up in our smoothies each morning. I also make fudge (almond "fudge" and other freezer treats) and raw dehydrated macaroons with it.

I saw a difference in my skin immerdiately, but by 4-6 weeks I had no more breakouts at all.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

This is totally OT, but...I got a PM from somebody saying they adopted a baby and were searching for donor BM and asking if I would be interested in donating (I posted in the breast feeding forum that I thought I have an oversupply issue). But the PM'er has 0 posts and under her user name it says she is banned. Should I email her or do you think it is somebody weird, for lack of a better description.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

i'd stay far away from that. I have low supply but dd wasn't eating-so when I started producing I had far more than she was able to eat. I have donated (and assisted donations) to mamas on this board-but not banned mamas with no posts.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

I also make fudge (almond "fudge" and other freezer treats) and raw dehydrated macaroons with it.
ff, will you post this recipe over in SCD chefs? It sounds yummy.

Here's the link for all the new people.


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## Ambercrystal (Apr 17, 2006)

food, exercise, supplements, and feelings log- i have created one in excel- how do i attach?


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

thanks for the reassurance about the milk. and, woohoo, zuchhini seed containing muffins here we come!

coconut oil--i LOVE grated zuchhini or squash ("grated" in the food processor) cooked in a couple tbsps of co. i save the leftovers and eat it cold. it has the best slightly sweet flavor and tastes "cold"--my mom had a bite and couldn't believe how good it was.

my girls can't tolerate the coconut macaroons yet







(ala eflf).

(and i'd stay away from zero-posters asking for stuff too.) gotta run


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

:


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
This is totally OT, but...I got a PM from somebody saying they adopted a baby and were searching for donor BM and asking if I would be interested in donating (I posted in the breast feeding forum that I thought I have an oversupply issue). But the PM'er has 0 posts and under her user name it says she is banned. Should I email her or do you think it is somebody weird, for lack of a better description.

Keep your nutrients right now unless you just have extra in the freezer or something. When you're better, that might be a different story.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

ambercrystal--can you copy and paste? or does the formatting get messed up?


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Okay, forgive me if you've kicked this dead horse before:
I just finished reading Nourishing Traditions (LOVED it!). Has anyone else questioned the "6-8 glasses of water per day" mantra? In my mind, it seems so destructive to digestion, yet obviously water is necessary for so many of our balances. Has anyone figured out a practical way to handle the paradox?

I've definately made a change to _when_ I drink water - no water a half hour before or within 2 hours after eating. But it doesn't leave much time to get in much water. I remember reading over at the Support for Mamas with Bad Skin tribe, a suggestion to drink your water warm with a squeeze of lemon. Seems like a good idea now that I understand a little bit better.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:

Do you think it would be beneficial to combine this with SCD (add in kefir sodas & do lacto-fermented foods early) or would it be better to just stick to the SCD?

i want to add kefir sodas for myself, but right now i'm only gving kefir to dh. he's about to change jobs (We're pretty sure), so i'm going to start him on scd when he'll have to interact with the fewest people. it is going to suck to be around him during die-off!

i'm thinking i may add kefir to the girls and me after we've been on scd for 2 monre months. (we've had it before and i think it gave the girls a rash, but now i think that's because i hgave them storebought with sugar in it.) i also want to buy some bottles to make soda--i already bought the ginger and the lime juice.

my face has been breaking out since the diet started almost. i thought it was because i stopped using some product that bliss labs convinced me i needed







. then i thought perhaps it was stress. i don't know what it is, but i put a little coconut oil on this am and am interested in buying some big tubs noW!

i'm working on the water thing too, but i forget all the time. i used to drink SO much! now i'm afraid i drink too little. finding your own balance is such a hard job! but hopefully my girls won't have to go thru this themselves. i really wish i had somebody to tell me what to do every step of the way. i appreciate your guys being here.

now i need to stop a fight and the imminent destruction of a book.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Can someone give me a synopsis of what NT says about water? I am guessing it goes along the lines that we don't need 6-8 glasses of water?? I know in Germany, where half my family is, they are not so fanatical about drinking water. And they wouldn't dream of putting ice in it. There you drink mineral water, not tap.

That all said, I do drink to thirst, but that can mean that I still drink alot. Sometimes I think that drinking water just makes me thirstier. Last night I put lemon in my water and it helped.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I made the monstor cookies last night and ate 2. I also tried the co in hot water thing. I had the worst stomach ache overnight. Felt like I was gonna puke for a while. Any guesses as to which one it was? I'm now scared to try either again.

Also, my co is refined. I had heard that is best for cooking with and has the mildest taste. DH still hates things fried in it. I can't really taste it but I do agree that eggs fried in ghee are better.









Jane how long did you do scd? You were saying that you healed really quickly. I'm looking for any ideas to heal us that exist. I wanna get better!!!


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Hmmm, it may have been aggravating to just have oil in water before bed. I tend to combine the coconut oil with something else and find that it digests much better that way. One of the easier things it to mix almond butter, honey and coconut oil and freeze in balls...you can roll them in coconut or crushed nuts if you want to. I also put a ton into my smoothies.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
At an ACTLC lecture a naturopath (who worked for Great Smokies for 7 years) stated that immune cells during pregnancy migrate from the gut to the breast tissue. So clearly the mother's gut health has alot to do with baby's gut health. Infants should have leaky gut, as Jane said, but the mother's milk SHOULD be working to heal that. It won't do it's job if mama has a damaged gut. IT's one of the reason's we know that if a baby is reacting to a food, it's really mama that is reacting-just probably compensating in a different way.

So if you're saying that it's a natural process that a baby starts out with a leaky gut and his mother's milk heals that...is it because she passes digestive enzymes to the baby through her milk? Or is there some other process involved?

Also, stupid question, but what is the difference between digestive enzymes and probiotics?

So sorry to be asking all these newbie questions. But this is fascinating and you mams are all so helpful.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Can enzymes aggravate DD's eczema? Her eczema flared up (not too bad, though) after I started enzymes again, even going slowly, and now her cheeks have what look like eczema on them, which has never happened before.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Mother's milk has far too many components to list! Everything in it basically works to heal up the porous gut. It's not just enzymes, mamas milk has probiotics, immunoglobulins etc.

Enzymes are very different from probiotics. Dietary enzymes work to break down food and other debris. THey are found in the saliva, manufactured in several organs, and can be taken as a supplement. Probiotics are the beneficial bacteria that reside in the gut. Both are necessary for health!


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Caedmyn-what you are seeing may be a part of a healing crisis-the body pushing toxins out of the skin. Things often get a bit worse before getting better.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Caedmyn-what you are seeing may be a part of a healing crisis-the body pushing toxins out of the skin. Things often get a bit worse before getting better.

I hope that's what it is! I'm sure not seeing any other signs of improvement. Do you think it would make things worse to slowly increase the dose on the enzymes? Or would it be better just to maintain my current dose for a while?


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I wouldn't push it. If it were my kid I'd just maintain at this point. You don't want to make her too uncomfortable.


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

I'm on day 3 of the intro SCD diet.....and I'm not feeling any different. I know, I know, the healing takes time. But specifically, I'm not feeling like crap like everyone else seems to be on this part of the diet. No symptoms of die-off whatsoever. Should I be concerned? I'm not (knowlingly) taking any food that is illegal, but my supplements are probably not SCD-legal (OmegaZyme, L-Glutamine, Calcium, Fish oil, Zinc, Evening Primrose), but there was absolutely NO room in the budget for me to buy different supplements. I've also been leaning heavily on the fruit juices and fruit juice gelatin that's allowed.

I need a boost of confidence.....


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Shanna, Just MO, but I'd stick w/ water for the bulk of your beverage consumption. Also, die-off is different for everyone. Glad you're feeling good!


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

You probably went through a bit of withdrawal already when you eliminated dairy and gluten. You may see more yet! Oh, and I agree that you should really stick with the water. Juice around here was a treat. I never did the jello.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Does anyone do raw milk yogurt? Why is it illegal? I plan to do raw milk yogurt if I can ever do dairy again...I do raw honey too even if that is not legal. It just seems like it is better to get the benefits of the enzymes that are in the raw forms.

I have no idea why it is illegial. And, IMHO, there is no reason it should be. This is why I'm a huge Rubin fan b/c he actually 'gets' nutrition. Raw milk yogurt, preferably goat, raw honey, etc. No saccharin, of course.

Can you do goat dairy? I absolutely cannot do anything that has anything to do w/cow dairy. I get ill, headaches, snotty nose, cramping--wicked fun.







The goat yogurt, I have no problem w/at all.

Oh, and since a lot of us are recovering vegans/vegetarians, I was a vegetarian for 10 yrs and vegan for some of that. All for ethical reasons. I now eat meat. My 4 yr old has been confused, but I explained to him that I still do not like killing animals, it makes me sad and it something I never thought I would have to do. But our bodies aren't getting better and we are suffering, and if eating animals will help us heal, then it is something we need to do--even if we really don't want to. And I was lurking on this thread since---last August maybe--never taking the plunge until the beginning of April as I didn't want to do meat, nor dairy.

I'm feeling great now though--and I never thought I was feeling off.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Elaine was actually ultra-conservative in alot of her views. The raw milk thing included. I think she would have flipped about the prospect of introducing more "germs" into the system. Jordan Rubin gets nutrition more-mainly because he is a follower of WAP.


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
You probably went through a bit of withdrawal already when you eliminated dairy and gluten. You may see more yet! Oh, and I agree that you should really stick with the water. Juice around here was a treat. I never did the jello.

Why would I limit these if they're "allowed"? Although admittedly, I forgot to mix the juice half and half with water.......Thanks for the advice though, you're probably right.

Hmmmm, maybe I'll go through to day 5 on intro, just to be sure.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I just suck it up and pay for it. I figure to get that much vitamin A I would be taking way more of a lower priced product (and I won't do really cheap fish oil cause I'm nervous about heavy metals).

To go back a day (I'm re-reading, hoping to understand a bit better) -- I had always heard that while pregnant, and presumably, nursing, you should avoid high does of Vitamin A (why I couldn't do Retin-A while pregnant). Is this different somehow?


----------



## Ambercrystal (Apr 17, 2006)

it is really comprehensive- fomatting would get totally messed up-


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I don't think probiotic capsules are enough to heal unless you have a lot of money and are able to take a bottle a week or more. I think you need the amounts in homemade kefir/yogurt.

Is there a non-dairy, non-soy product I could eat? I can't do either because of my son's spitting up, and I'd rather not do dairy at all if I could.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I just made coconut water kefir and coconut cheese. Info is on the here on the body ecology website. It was super yummy. DD1 even would drink the kefir with me in the morning. Course, it didn't last long, so I have to make more.

I also made cashew yogurt and added probiotics to that. That the DDs were not crazy about, but that meant that there was so much more left for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

New Mama- Synthetic vitamin a absolutely should be limited in pg but much higher levels of natural vitamin a are fine (per wapf stuff) and very common in traditional cultures. I'm also taking the butter oil which is supposed to raise the levels of vitamin a I can handle even higher. They recomend a dose of 20,000 of vitamin A for nursing/pg.


----------



## CluckyInAZ (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I made the monstor cookies last night and ate 2. I also tried the co in hot water thing. I had the worst stomach ache overnight. Felt like I was gonna puke for a while. Any guesses as to which one it was? I'm now scared to try either again.

When my husband and I first started coconut oil, I put it in a smoothie, but I did too much to start with. You have to start slow. We both had horrible stomach cramps and spent a lot of time in the bathroom. It is just one of those things you have to go slowly with.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

It does have a good amount of caprylic acid-so you could be killing some yeast with high doses of CO.

Shanna-everything in moderation. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's okay in unlimited quantities (especially to the exclusion of water!) With juice-no added sugar isn't the same as sugar free and that's alot of sugar for your body to handle. I don't do jello because I don't think it's healthy. There's plenty of legal things on SCD I stayed far away from.

New mama-you can make nut based yogurts no problem. I also love coconut kefir and coconut milk yogurt. There are always options!


----------



## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

firefaery, do you know if one can use breastmilk with regular kefir grains? that is, will the grains continue to grow or does it just put them in a maintenance mode?


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Shanna-everything in moderation. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's okay in unlimited quantities (especially to the exclusion of water!) With juice-no added sugar isn't the same as sugar free and that's alot of sugar for your body to handle. I don't do jello because I don't think it's healthy. There's plenty of legal things on SCD I stayed far away from.

Sorry if I wasn't clear - my question about water was completely separate from my question about juice and juice gelatin. I'm drinking plenty of water (and not as much juice as you probably think), but I'm just starting to wonder if "6-8 glasses of water a day" as a rule is diluting out my digestion goodness







I wondered everyone's responses were so strong....


----------



## mimim (Nov 2, 2003)

Hi, I'm a lurker here and I've finally talked myself into starting SCD for my whole family.

I've been dealing with yeast since my DD was born last March. She has eczema that flares due to dairy (goat too) and everything she eats comes out totally undigested. She only poops about 3 times a week and when she does it's a mass of mucous and chunks of food. I'm sure this problem started because of our yeast issues. Thank goodness she's nursing, otherwise I'm sure she'd be really malnourished.

My oldest DS, 12, has no digestive problems or obvious food sensitivities, but he is on the autism spectrum. My younger DS, 4, has soft bowel movements and a REALLY short temper. I suspect they have yeast/bacteria issues too.

So, we plan to start the SCD intro diet in about 2 weeks. It's going to be difficult to do on our budget though.

I'm worried about dealing with school lunches and snacks for my sons, though. Any suggestions for early stage SCD foods that travel well?
I really need snack suggestions too for the early days.

So far I'm thinking of keeping on hand for snacking on:

little meatballs
hard boiled eggs
yogurt (obviously)
gelatin
carrot chips (how long will these keep?)
chicken soup
tomato soup

They really don't like cooked fruits and veggies. BTVC says to wait to do these until after diarrhea is gone. If we don't have any can I start raw stuff after the first week or so?

Also, does anyone have a cheap source of nuts? I'm not sure how we'll afford to buy so many. They are not cheap.

Thanks!! Hopefully I'll be more active now that I'm coming out of denial about food.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

For those of you who have been on SCD for a while...when (how many days/weeks into it) did you add nut butter? And where there any symptoms that went away or guidelines that you used to determine when to add it, or did you just decide to try it?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I tried nut butters almost right away. I was sooo hungry. They don't give me trouble, but I don't eat much at a time.


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## Karry (Apr 10, 2002)

Has anyone tried the chewable tablet enzymes? I'm wondering if this would be a better way to get my ds to take them. By the way I haven't tried any enzymes with him yet, but I'm wondering what would be best because he is picky and can taste things disquised in food. Also what is the best online source for Peptizyde and Zyme Prime? Thanks.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Hi! I'm also new to this forum. I have been following a few threads here and I've been learning more than I have in several months on the internet. You guys are sharing very valuable information.
I have been on the SCD since January-February with yogurt. I'm also dealing with eczema. My two and a half YO DD#1 has eczema issues as well as mushy poops. My bf DD#2 is 10 months old as of today. Thank God she is eczema-free. I went on a LC-candida diet in December after I had a bad flare-up of eczema (on my fingers) and got fed up with the dermatologist's prescriptions. No sugar/grain/dairy until I swithced to SCD. I did a round of Culturelle before the yogurt which didn't make a difference. I had some die-off when I first started the diet with garlic (rash on neck, chest, arms, ears) that went away in about two weeks, but not with Culturelle. The hand eczema didn't go away. So I thought maybe I need to cut out something else: grains. Someone on another forum said they cleared up their eczema with the SCD yogurt, so that's why I started the SCD diet plus coconut oil. However, it's not making a difference. I love the yogurt though. I never really had gut issues until I went on the diet. The CO can cause major nausea if I take too much at a time. It's nice on the skin but does nothing for the rash.
I also take 2tbs Cod liver oil (Carlson or GOL whenever I get a good price), zinc, biotin, esterC, quercetin, vit E, folic acid plus my Twinlabs multi.
I just tarted taking plant enzymes last week which made my break out even more on my hands. How long is the die-off with the enzymes? I'm getting discouraged because every time I discover a new supplement/diet variation I have high hopes and nothing gets better. I'm also following NT and have allowed myself some sprouted bread but I think I shouldn't eat any because of the candida issues. I don't eat honey and very little fruit (berries and avocados). Nut butters/flours make me very itchy. Maybe because they were not soaked? So I do a modified SCD-NT combo. I wish oh I wish I had access to raw milk and dairy.... Nothing around here (DC area). So I'm limited to the 24 hour yogurt and DCCC and I give my 2 year old some pasturized organic whole milk but I don't like doing it.
I'm thinking about getting a goat but my DH thinks it's insane. That's his opinion about my diet thing in general. He's an SAD devotee as well as everybody else in the family. I'm all alone. My 2 year-old is 99% eczema-free now, after several months of loosely doing SCD with a lot of fat and sunshine. She is finally willing to take CLO. My bf 10-month old is a happy chubby baby, loving CLO, I'm following WAPF pricliples with her. However, I can't make her eat the egg yolks. Any ideas? I tried it plain, mixed with pureed veggies... Same with meat. She likes some veggies and fruits but she doesn't need all the carbs.

So any miracle cure for eczema? I'm convinced it's related to leaky gut/yeast. I'm surprised my bf baby is doing so well.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *EBG*
I'm thinking about getting a goat but my DH thinks it's insane. That's his opinion about my diet thing in general. He's an SAD devotee as well as everybody else in the family. I'm all alone. My 2 year-old is 99% eczema-free now, after several months of loosely doing SCD with a lot of fat and sunshine. She is finally willing to take CLO. My bf 10-month old is a happy chubby baby, loving CLO, I'm following WAPF pricliples with her. However, I can't make her eat the egg yolks. Any ideas? I tried it plain, mixed with pureed veggies... Same with meat. She likes some veggies and fruits but she doesn't need all the carbs.
Isn't it funny how all the SADers think we're quacks?









I give my 12 mo. old egg yolks w/a generous amount of raw butter. She likes them better this way and they're not so dry either.


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Isn't it funny how all the SADers think we're quacks?









Seasonal Affected Disorder?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Nope, Standard American Diet.

Thats ok if they think I'm quacky... I'm seriously scared of SAD'ers with how much I know right now about how nutrition effects the body! I see every single disease/disorder in the form of how lack of nutrition has caused it and it's pretty overwhelming sometimes. No wonder our children's generation has so many issues. My DS will only be allowed to marry into a WAPF family. I'm not kidding.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Karry*
Has anyone tried the chewable tablet enzymes? I'm wondering if this would be a better way to get my ds to take them. By the way I haven't tried any enzymes with him yet, but I'm wondering what would be best because he is picky and can taste things disquised in food. Also what is the best online source for Peptizyde and Zyme Prime? Thanks.









Yes, I got the Houston's on a lark, they taste pretty darn good. But lots of fructose and other sugars and they are not as potent at the capsules, you have to give more sometimes (see chart on site for dosing schedule).

Their website is the only source I think www.houstonni.com


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mimim*
Hi, I'm a lurker here and I've finally talked myself into starting SCD for my whole family.

I've been dealing with yeast since my DD was born last March. She has eczema that flares due to dairy (goat too) and everything she eats comes out totally undigested. She only poops about 3 times a week and when she does it's a mass of mucous and chunks of food. I'm sure this problem started because of our yeast issues. Thank goodness she's nursing, otherwise I'm sure she'd be really malnourished.

My oldest DS, 12, has no digestive problems or obvious food sensitivities, but he is on the autism spectrum. My younger DS, 4, has soft bowel movements and a REALLY short temper. I suspect they have yeast/bacteria issues too.

So, we plan to start the SCD intro diet in about 2 weeks. It's going to be difficult to do on our budget though.

I'm worried about dealing with school lunches and snacks for my sons, though. Any suggestions for early stage SCD foods that travel well?
I really need snack suggestions too for the early days.

So far I'm thinking of keeping on hand for snacking on:

little meatballs
hard boiled eggs
yogurt (obviously)
gelatin
carrot chips (how long will these keep?)
chicken soup
tomato soup

They really don't like cooked fruits and veggies. BTVC says to wait to do these until after diarrhea is gone. If we don't have any can I start raw stuff after the first week or so?

Also, does anyone have a cheap source of nuts? I'm not sure how we'll afford to buy so many. They are not cheap.

Thanks!! Hopefully I'll be more active now that I'm coming out of denial about food.









Molly!

Mucus in poop is a clear sign of yeast. The short temper is definately gut related I know that for a fact as I can tell what kind of day (and night) DS is going to have depending on the solidity of his poop!

RE: ASD and digestion
The studies were done showed something like 85% had digestive issues, so you might be surprised with die off. But with your DS it could be viral too, and thus manifesting itself differently. Is he vaccinated? I highly recommend Karen DeFelice's book www.enzymestuff.com. And cod liver oil.

I'm not sure about raw stuff, I would wait on them for a bit, esp. fruit. See how the Intro. goes if you get die off, etc.

The Pecanbread list members use www.nuts4u.com

RE: snacks
Maybe pancakes or muffins made from nut butter after a few weeks. Pecanbread Yahoo list always has good snack suggestions too.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Is there a non-dairy, non-soy product I could eat? I can't do either because of my son's spitting up, and I'd rather not do dairy at all if I could.

The kefir sodas recipes in _Eat Fat, Lose Fat_.
I just made the lemonade: One packet of kefir powder or grains (1/2 cup? I forget, I used powder), 1 cup fresh lemon juice and 1/2 cup sweetener. Leave out at room temp for 48 hours and transfer to fridge. Will get more bubbly the longer it ripens.

The nut yogurt recipe I've used is at www.pecanbread.com

Also coconut milk plus honey as a non dairy sub too.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

So Jane, I see you mentioned the letter in the latest issue of Mothering in regards to the chlorophyl and the fancy nerve thing.







I've stored that info in my head so that I can remember next pregnancy









Anywho, I was reading the vegetarian article, and I was just goblesmacked time upon time upon time and I was thinking, "Hey, Jane is very articulate, she should write a nice letter to the editor"









Any desire??

I was just







at most of the thing. Evidently a 1-4 yr old requires 4 servings of whole grains a day!! That is 4 slices of bread!! Can you imagine! And the way it spouted off the healthiness of a vegetarian diet, combined w/all the great soy products available, e.g. Soy yogurt, soy cottage cheese, "bacon" strips and "cheese substitutes loaded w/essential nnutrients." Oh pulheez.

"From hot dogs to chicken nuggets, meat substitutes make the transistion to becoming and remaining a vegetarian easier for kids". Okay, in what universe is pretend food healthy?? Honestly, I feel like I'm on an episode of Sliders or something. Even when I was a veg, I didn't eat that crap. You know why? I preferred real food, not some highly processed wheat gluten w/some soy protein isolate for the phytoestrogens. Not to mention some caramel color, a lil' trans fats, and a dash of high fructose corn syrup, sounds delicious









Please can someone tell me how a hamburger made from grass-fed organic beef is inferior to some highly processed soy and wheat gluten combo. Please.


----------



## Karry (Apr 10, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yes, I got the Houston's on a lark, they taste pretty darn good. But lots of fructose and other sugars and they are not as potent at the capsules, you have to give more sometimes (see chart on site for dosing schedule).

Their website is the only source I think www.houstonni.com

Thanks.







I think I'll try the chewables.


----------



## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
I was just







at most of the thing. Evidently a 1-4 yr old requires 4 servings of whole grains a day!! That is 4 slices of bread!! Can you imagine! .

I was really disturbed by this too! My DD is 16 months old, 27.5 lbs and eats *maybe* 1/2 cup of grains, 1/2 cup veggies, 1/2 cup fruit and 1/4 cup of yogurt a day. By their standards she should be starving! (but she is stll nursin')


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
To go back a day (I'm re-reading, hoping to understand a bit better) -- I had always heard that while pregnant, and presumably, nursing, you should avoid high does of Vitamin A (why I couldn't do Retin-A while pregnant). Is this different somehow?

Very, very different. "Back in the day" many pregnant women were advised to take cod liver oil and eat liver in this country as did native societies six months before ttc to up their A stores before becoming pg. Food forms of vitamin A are much needed for hormone production, tooth generation, bone formation, eyesight, etc. etc. Most women are deficient.

Retin A is chemical form and toxic for that reason.

See this thread for more discussion:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=408632


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
My DS will only be allowed to marry into a WAPF family. I'm not kidding.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
So Jane, I see you mentioned the letter in the latest issue of Mothering in regards to the chlorophyl and the fancy nerve thing.







I've stored that info in my head so that I can remember next pregnancy









Anywho, I was reading the vegetarian article, and I was just goblesmacked time upon time upon time and I was thinking, "Hey, Jane is very articulate, she should write a nice letter to the editor"









Any desire??

I was just







at most of the thing. Evidently a 1-4 yr old requires 4 servings of whole grains a day!! That is 4 slices of bread!! Can you imagine! And the way it spouted off the healthiness of a vegetarian diet, combined w/all the great soy products available, e.g. Soy yogurt, soy cottage cheese, "bacon" strips and "cheese substitutes loaded w/essential nnutrients." Oh pulheez.

"From hot dogs to chicken nuggets, meat substitutes make the transistion to becoming and remaining a vegetarian easier for kids". Okay, in what universe is pretend food healthy?? Honestly, I feel like I'm on an episode of Sliders or something. Even when I was a veg, I didn't eat that crap. You know why? I preferred real food, not some highly processed wheat gluten w/some soy protein isolate for the phytoestrogens. Not to mention some caramel color, a lil' trans fats, and a dash of high fructose corn syrup, sounds delicious









Please can someone tell me how a hamburger made from grass-fed organic beef is inferior to some highly processed soy and wheat gluten combo. Please.

I did??? Where is that... ? Must be my evil twin or something or I'm REALLY losing my mind. I haven't seen current _Mothering_ yet, it's buried somewhere.

I so totally agree with you. I said something similar in a recent thread... like why do vegetarians feel bashed when I say there are many published studies on the health dangers of processed soy milk? Why does being veg. mean you have to eat processed food?

Grass fed organic beef is health food. And let me tell you it took me years to be able to say that and really know why that is and have it really sink in. And to not be fat or cholesterol phobic. Just processed vegetable oil phobic. Fake, non traditional fat phobic.

_*If they weren't eating it in the year 1900, it's not healthy to eat now!!*_


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
So if you're saying that it's a natural process that a baby starts out with a leaky gut and his mother's milk heals that...is it because she passes digestive enzymes to the baby through her milk? Or is there some other process involved?

Also, stupid question, but what is the difference between digestive enzymes and probiotics?

Probiotics also produce digestive enzymes (as well as vitamins) and take care of the intestinal villi... the little fingerlike projections in the small intestine that also produce enzymes.

More on gut and newborns here from one of my favorite articles:
Just One Bottle Won't Hurt, Or Will It?
http://www.massbfc.org/formula/bottle.html


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Does anyone do raw milk yogurt? Why is it illegal? I plan to do raw milk yogurt if I can ever do dairy again...I do raw honey too even if that is not legal. It just seems like it is better to get the benefits of the enzymes that are in the raw forms.

I do b/c I'm a renegade









It's illegal on the SCD b/c other bacteria could grow in addition to the acidophilus.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I did??? Where is that... ? Must be my evil twin or something or I'm REALLY losing my mind. I haven't seen current _Mothering_ yet, it's buried somewhere.


hehe, in my head I thought it was you. Whoever it is, step forward.









You must unbury the magazine and read the article on vegetarianism. So enlightening.....oops, have to go, I need to get to the store to get some soy made into pork spare ribs before bed......


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Do you think it would be beneficial to combine this with SCD (add in kefir sodas & do lacto-fermented foods early) or would it be better to just stick to the SCD?

Very very hard to say!

I know it's natural to want to get everything in... but then if something goes wrong it's murder having to second guess yourself.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
OK I need ideas on how to eat the coconut oil. I tried frying my eggs in it but didn't like it. I'm stumped though! I just realized that i could be replacing the butter in the muffin recipe with this. I have a whole case of the stuff and can't figure out how to eat it. Should I get that book? Will that give me ideas?
I did get some ghee and am loving using that for cooking.

I didn't realize that taking 1 tbsp of the blue ice was the minimum for nursing. Hmmm... Should I be taking more for healing? What about the butter oil? Is the 1/2 tsp a day enough? I can't find any info on how much of that to take.

The EFLF book is really good for reading about traditional diets in a nutshell (NT lite) and also how beneficial coconut oil is for fighting bacteria and germs. I personally love it but it's so up my alley. Good soup ideas too.

EFLF recommends 1/2 tsp/day for butter oil. I think you are probably okay on the 1 T. of high vitamin CLO too.

I have melted the coconut oil and just mixed really fast in yogurt too (I always drink my yogurt). Not perfectly smooth but tasty just the same.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
we are a month into SCD (6 weeks on scd legal only, and no sugar for a few months)--the girls (16 months) poos are finally getting better, but nowhere near what i imagine to be normal. and now i'm a little constipated, due i think to the fact that i made myself almond butter cookies (blanche, soaked, crisped, made in =to butter, and DID NOT SHARE!)--at least they lasted close to four days







. anywhay, i think i'm not getting enough carbs. so i need help figuring out where to go next. so far, they seem to tolerate all forms of squash. they seem okay with green pepper and brocolli and asparagus and cauliflower. they are NOT fine with peas--they wouldn't go to sleep at all.

can i give them the applesauce i just made? (i made it awhile back, but i ate it all myself bc they didn't seem ready.)

can i add cheese? i added it once before, but it coincided with a tummy bug (i think). it doesn't seem like raw cheddar would give diarrhea, does it? i'd really like some cheese. tell me now is the time for cheese, please.

and then i just add in the nuts? try a banana pancake here and there? i'm so clueless. and all i do is cook. sigh.

does anyone (jane, firefaery, patty?) happen to have a log of what they ate when--or, rather, what their babes ate when? i know it's trial and error, but it would really help to kow that someone else a month in was still eating such a limited amount. i bought the maker's diet hoping for some guidance about introducing foods, but it hasn't helped. if anyone could pm me a food log--or post it here--i'd be very grateful.

I'm so sorry I write everything down in a notebook. I don't even think my DS's experience could help b/c he is still stuck in Stage 2. Have you seen the stages at Pecanbread? He seems to react to too much applesauce, the sorbitol in it.

Banana pancakes are great for early use on SCD. Moneca's recipe was 3 eggs, 2 bananas and a tablespoon of melted coconut oil, yummy. Squash pancakes made same way with cinnamon are good too.

You might try a milder cheese like brick or colby, cheddar can have some weird acidic thing I forgot what it's called.

Try nut butter first, it's easiest to digest. I just make my own in fp.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

More talk on the Mothering issue.

Remember how a bunch of us were talking about how we (or our children really) "dodged the bullet" last month or the month before? Basically in response to vax-ing?

Well in the letters section there is a break-down (pg 22) of things in common that children w/ADD, dyslexia, PDD, etc share. For example:

*family hx of allergies
*birth trauma
*high-level exposures to toxic metals such as mercury and aluminum
*physical characteristics such as dark circles under the eyes and red cheeks or ears
*recurrent ear, sinus or strep infections
*yeast infections
*respiratory and skin problems
*digestive problems, including constipation, diarrhea and relux
*a vax reaction
*dysregulated sleep
*wild mood swings and hyperactive behavior, especially after ingesting food additives such as dyes and preservatives
*picky eating consisting primarily of wheat and dairy products

Sound familiar to anyone here?? All of those above criteria apply to my health or my son's health. I left out only a couple of things that didn't apply to us:

*hx of fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, or low thyroid in the mother
*sequential rounds of increasinly more potent antibiotics (although in our case, when my 1st son was in the NICU they loaded his system w/tons of UNNECESSARY antibiotics)
*chronic unexplained fevers
*chemical sensitivities, especially to perfumes, textiles, carpeting and paint

Does anyone feel like we are on the verge of a huge discovery here?? Like in anytime, the world is going to catch on to the importance of a healthy gut and the implications or a damaged one? Everything I keep reading, just solidifies the importance of what I am doing w/my family, everything is interconnected. Its wild!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Thanks for your comments. I have to admit I am very resistant to giving up veganism. I did become vegan for mostly health reasons, but I really love the positive consequences to animals and the environment as well. I did a LOT of research on diets and food and health on my journey to being vegan, and I feel pretty strongly that this way of eating is the "right" way.

Not to say that if Henry had any of the issues some of you dedicated Mamas are dealing with I wouldn't eat meat and dairy if I thought that would help him.

Sigh. Why does this have to be so hard and confusing? It's just food! We should just be able to eat when we're hungry and not have to think about it so much!

(By the way, I've always had a weak constitution and have been a vegan for only three years, and a vegetarian for a total of ten years...so does that still correlate?)

Anyway, I am trying to remain open-minded and do my best to inform myself. I really appreciate the information and support here. I'm just so overwhelmed and really don't know where to start...someone needs to tell me exactly what to do, step by step, lol!

I do have one specific question...I was reading on this site about the Houston Nutraceuticals products Peptizyde, Zyme Prime and No-Fenol -- can an adult take them and would my baby get the effects through my breastmilk? Or is it just that I would digest my food better, thus not passing the unwanted particles into my bloodstream and on to my baby via my breastmilk?

Only 3 years of veganism could tax your body stores of vitamin A and B12 a great deal. What foods you rely on to get your minerals with could quite possibly mean you are not absorbing them due to high phytate content (unsoaked whole grains, nuts, soy). All of these contribute to immune system, thyroid and digestive problems.

Only you can determine re: veganism contributing to health issues. There are many mama's here at MDC who went thru this. Toraji's posts on it are great. I can tell you that she was one of my angels who really made me realize thru her very tough experience she was so generous to share how absolutely crucial it is to get nutrition right, or the body reacts with disease.

Personally, after a ton of research into traditional diets, I don't think it's possible to be vegan and get all the proper nutrients. There is no evidence in human history of healthy vegans. But I wouldn't have said that 5 years ago.

I also didn't know then how much marketing hype is behind our modern view of "what is healthy" either: the creation of public demand for cheap, unhealthy, untraditional foods: canola oil, processed soy, lowfat/no cholesterol/whole grain, etc. etc.

A lot of the research that is behind these recs are fatally flawed and pathetically incomplete. And there is a ton of research in the other direction, these studies are so not comprehensive as government recs would like you to believe. But you are right, it's soooo hard to sift thru! Which is why I now tend to put more weight on traditional diets. Just learning that we as humans are designed to be disease free and traditional ways of preparing food were done for a reason was very empowering.

For more info on traditional diets:
http://www.westonaprice.org/tour/vegtourindex.html

This site Toraji always reccomends: Beyond Vegetarianism
http://www.beyondveg.com/

And yes, absolutely, enzymes will help break down the food particles before they pass thru to your bloodstream. Releasing more nutrients as well as cleaning up inflammation. Go very slowly!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
More talk on the Mothering issue.

Remember how a bunch of us were talking about how we (or our children really) "dodged the bullet" last month or the month before? Basically in response to vax-ing?

Well in the letters section there is a break-down (pg 22) of things in common that children w/ADD, dyslexia, PDD, etc share. For example:

*family hx of allergies
*birth trauma
*high-level exposures to toxic metals such as mercury and aluminum
*physical characteristics such as dark circles under the eyes and red cheeks or ears
*recurrent ear, sinus or strep infections
*yeast infections
*respiratory and skin problems
*digestive problems, including constipation, diarrhea and relux
*a vax reaction
*dysregulated sleep
*wild mood swings and hyperactive behavior, especially after ingesting food additives such as dyes and preservatives
*picky eating consisting primarily of wheat and dairy products

Sound familiar to anyone here?? All of those above criteria apply to my health or my son's health. I left out only a couple of things that didn't apply to us:

*hx of fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, or low thyroid in the mother
*sequential rounds of increasinly more potent antibiotics (although in our case, when my 1st son was in the NICU they loaded his system w/tons of UNNECESSARY antibiotics)
*chronic unexplained fevers
*chemical sensitivities, especially to perfumes, textiles, carpeting and paint

Does anyone feel like we are on the verge of a huge discovery here?? Like in anytime, the world is going to catch on to the importance of a healthy gut and the implications or a damaged one? Everything I keep reading, just solidifies the importance of what I am doing w/my family, everything is interconnected. Its wild!

Yikes, I do need to look at that. Check, check, check... !!!

*It's all about the immune system baby. And the health of your gut IS your immune system.*

This makes an important point:

*If anyone who is reading this has a kid with a gut issue, stop vaxing immediately!*


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

We were already on the autism spectrum-and we never vaxed. But my ped went out of her way to get my kids exemptions because (especially with dd) she said we'd be in real trouble if we ever did. So now they have notes in their files. I was suprised-thought it took alot more to get a medical exemption, but she didn't even glance up when I questioned it and told me that, "it takes what I say it takes. I'm their doctor, vaxes are not recommended." Um, I love my doc! OF course the results of their blood tests from immunolabs are also on file-and with the many reactions and whatnot that didn't hurt!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I was the one that brought up the liquid chlorophyll for ileocecal valve syndrome. I am willing to give it a shot because it sounds very possibly what I am dealing with. Course I never heard of it before.







I really do feel so on my own with these health issues. The medical profession, even alternative, is just not pulling through here. Sigh.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Thank you moonshine for stepping up







Please let me know how it goes, it sounded very interesting.

Firefaery, do your kids meet any of the other criteria on the list besides the vax reaction one?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Got my answer re: stomach acid from Karen DeFelice.
This is very interesting!

Quote:

Jane,

I saw a way cool illustration and was trying to locate it, but
couldn't. The short answer is the food intolerances can irritate the
stomach lining. Bacteria, parasites, and yeast may also be present with
the food intolerances. The stomach irritation can *physically* impair
the production of stomach acid because the cells are damaged or
impaired. Either the acid producing cells themselves, or some of the
cells involved in acid production.

This can lead to a vicious cycle of poor stomach acid leading to more
food intolerances which lead to more poor acid production. Here is an
animation showing the stomach acid process:

http://www.ppiknow.com/acidsecretion.html

And here is an article with illustrations on how food intolerances can
lead to the promotion of extra histamine and other chemicals being
released, and possibly causing cell disruption, due to the immune
system response...a *chemical* path:

http://worldshealthiestfoods.com/gen...me=faq&dbid=30

If this wasn't what you were looking for, let me know. Again, sorry it
got delayed.
Karen.

> > In the Chapter: Dysbiosis - Life in the Gut
> >
> > Under "The problematic parasites" you state:
> >"If stomach acid production is inhibited by food intolerances,
> taking enzymes will reduce these intolerances, and help keep stomach
acid production normal."
> >
> > How exactly does food intolerances effect the production of
> stomach acid?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Oh they meet just about all of it. We never vaxed so that doesn't apply-my ped was just smart enough to say that we never should.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
The curious thing is that my "problem" (outrageously distended stomach and constipation) happened AFTER I cut out a lot of grains and almost all soy.







Years ago I found out enough about the dangers of soy and cut way back. I did discover that I had less gas.







Since doing Eat to Live, I cut way back on grains, although didn't cut them out completely. My current GI stuff came about 7 months into doing E2L.

Like New Mama, I am also hesitant start eating meat. I won't say never, but I am really torn about it. I read everyone's posts and believe you when you say you are healing, but I do struggle with the thought of eating meat. Even as a child and growing up, I was a reluctant meat eater. Except for beef. I liked that rare.







I did love dairy and would never have believed that I would ever give up cheese. I never did completely. Interestingly, we did have raw milk during my teenage years.

What do you eat now? I'm not familiar with ETL program ex. knowing it's vegetarian and the back and forth I did with Firefaery a while back on the dioxin issue.









I think digestive issues can escalate and also, the point I made in pp to NewMama, can be influenced by nutritional stores. Also bcps, steriods, antibx, etc. etc. there can be many other causes besides food.

A lot of traditional societies did not eat meat or very much meat. They made up with for it with a lot of fat soluble vitamins from other animal food sources (dairy, eggs, fats, fish, all correctly raised on pasture or in wild to have proper essential fatty acids).

Meat is not required for the SCD or even necessarily for eating according to Nourishing Traditions that many of us here try to follow as well (see Vegetarian Tour I posted above). I'm not at all saying you have to eat meat!

But I really do think anyone who really wants gut healing should make an effort to take cod liver oil and make bone broths. The evidence for their unique nutritional and healing qualities are huge.

Believe me I know how you feel though, I was grossed out for a long time too when I went back on meat (this was during a health crisis for me and I was ttc, I felt better immediately eating meat so that was enough for me). I never really was an ethical veg. and I feel tons better getting all my animal products from local farms or my Amish co-op where the animals are treated like family. I really hope I'm not offending you and New Mama. Sometimes I have so little time to get my knowledge out there I trample on some people's feelings.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

No no no, no feelings hurt here. It just feels like such a monumental change that I felt so good about, that makes it hard. I can get over it in time, if I have to.







I just thank goodness that I have healthy kids with no discernable gut issues or any other health issues, for that matter. Not that I don't want to keep making sure that they stay that way, but I am not trying to fix things like it sounds like most of not all of you are.

What do I eat now? Or rather strictly E2L. Fruits, veggies, beans, some fats (avocado, nuts or olive oil) and 1 serving of a grain per day. The guideline is 1 lbs raw veggies, 1 lbs cooked veggies, at least 4 fruits, one fat serving (can't remember the measurements on that), at least one cup of beans and as mentioned before, one serving of grains (optional). This is the basic plan. After the first 6 weeks, you can go to a 90/10 plan, as in stick to this for 90% of the time.

Since my "official" diagnosis of IBS 1.5 weeks ago, I have changed a few things. I have upped my fat intake (thank you firefaery!). I have started eating more eggs. And since this weekend after my flax seed mixture was finished, I started taking CLO. I got Carlson capsules because that is what I could get at my coop. I am taking 9 capsules per day. I am not sure that is exactly right, but figure I will get the straight oil next time and then it will be easier to measure. I just started enzymes too. Oh, and making kefir and yogurt. I am trying!










I think that I could do eggs, dairy and bone broths, at minumum. I will have to continue to read and see my progress to see what I will, if anything change. Well, I won't commit to bone broths quite yet.









Oh, and my new favorite food is hands down COCONUT!! Yum yum and yum. I like the kefir, cheese and curry sauce I made with it so far, but tonight I made an avocado pudding and used coconut oil, among other things and oh.my.god. I haven't felt that good after eating in such a long time.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

:


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Does anyone feel like we are on the verge of a huge discovery here?? Like in anytime, the world is going to catch on to the importance of a healthy gut and the implications or a damaged one? Everything I keep reading, just solidifies the importance of what I am doing w/my family, everything is interconnected. Its wild!
It sure is interconnected! Right down the the chlorine in your water. (Or, more specifically, the chlorine in dd's gut.)







Utterly fascinating to me.

We're leaving for vacation tomorrow. No HTG Tribe for me for a while. I'm going to have some serious withdrawals. Of course I bought one of JR's books to bring and N&PD too.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Moonshine, how do you make avocado pudding?

I have to vaccinate







My DH stated it clearly, our children will get all their vaccines. Is there anything I can do to avoid/lessen the damage besides upping their CLO and vitamins?


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Moonshine, how do you make avocado pudding?

I have to vaccinate







My DH stated it clearly, our children will get all their vaccines. Is there anything I can do to avoid/lessen the damage besides upping their CLO and vitamins?

You need to post this question in the vaccine forum. You will get a lot of suggestions on preparing them for them. But have you negotiated at all with your dh? Could you at least spread the vaxes out?


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
So if you're saying that it's a natural process that a baby starts out with a leaky gut and his mother's milk heals that...is it because she passes digestive enzymes to the baby through her milk? Or is there some other process involved?

I learned from a researcher who studies comparative neonatal gut development that human infants have a permeable gut for only a few days - permeable to small water-soluble substances (it closes up on its own). Otherwise, the gut is only permeable if damaged. In other animals, the neonatal gut is wide open, allowing take-up of IgA from mama; in humans, babies get their passive immune protection in the form of IgG prenatally through the placenta. However, small quantities of big antigens may get across the human neonatal gut - this may be a good thing as it "tolerises" the infant immune system and makes it capable of recognizing and dealing with appropriately with them later in life. The baby's gut also has cells on its surface (in Peyer's patches - lymphoid tissue) that recognize and deal with "foreign" antigens - whether or not they traverse the gut barrier. Finally, in mastitis, big molecules (both antigens and antibodies) can "leak" into milk.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
You need to post this question in the vaccine forum. You will get a lot of suggestions on preparing them for them. But have you negotiated at all with your dh? Could you at least spread the vaxes out?

EBG--Actually I doubt you'll get any suggestions on preparing for them, just suggestions on not vaxing. I've seen several threads asking how to minimize damage (and posted myself--DH is military and they have mandatory vaxes for him) and there are never any replies. But it wouldn't hurt to try.

Is vaxing something you are willing to put your foot down on to your DH? I believe in being submissive to my DH (I know this won't be a popular concept on this forum but that is my belief) but vaxes are the one thing I would not be willing to give in on...fortunately after I did the research and told DH what I found he is fine with not vaxing.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

preparing for vaxes... I think Momtezuma in the vax forum has recommended in the past (if one must do vaxes) that you dose your dc with 500 mg of sodium ascorbate (and only sodium ascorbate - not ascorbic acid) prior to the vax (30 minutes or so, i think). definitely do NOT under any circumstance administer any fever reducer after the vax. be diligent in watching for signs of reactions, knowing that reactions may occur up to 2 weeks (or more) after the vax - if a reaction occurs, be firm with the doc and insist that it be reported to VAERS (or get the batch/lot # and brand of the vax and report it yourself).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
I learned from a researcher who studies comparative neonatal gut development that human infants have a permeable gut for only a few days - permeable to small water-soluble substances (it closes up on its own). Otherwise, the gut is only permeable if damaged. In other animals, the neonatal gut is wide open, allowing take-up of IgA from mama; in humans, babies get their passive immune protection in the form of IgG prenatally through the placenta. However, small quantities of big antigens may get across the human neonatal gut - this may be a good thing as it "tolerises" the infant immune system and makes it capable of recognizing and dealing with appropriately with them later in life. The baby's gut also has cells on its surface (in Peyer's patches - lymphoid tissue) that recognize and deal with "foreign" antigens - whether or not they traverse the gut barrier. Finally, in mastitis, big molecules (both antigens and antibodies) can "leak" into milk.

Hmmm...now everything I've read says that babies' guts are highly permeable until about 6 months old, and don't fully close until 2 years old, which allows the mother's antibodies from BM to go through the gut. Isn't that one of the reasons BF'ing is better--the baby gets immune system support from the mother?


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
EBG--Actually I doubt you'll get any suggestions on preparing for them, just suggestions on not vaxing. I've seen several threads asking how to minimize damage (and posted myself--DH is military and they have mandatory vaxes for him) and there are never any replies. But it wouldn't hurt to try.

Is vaxing something you are willing to put your foot down on to your DH? I believe in being submissive to my DH (I know this won't be a popular concept on this forum but that is my belief) but vaxes are the one thing I would not be willing to give in on...fortunately after I did the research and told DH what I found he is fine with not vaxing.


Yes I have tried negotiating and he said no. I believe the ultimate decision is his and I have to submit. He does know some kids have very extreme reactions (our pastors first child - so all of their kids are unvaxed) and even die from it, but he said our kids will be vaxed and that's that. He wouldn't read the evidence against vaccines, even if I put it in front of him. I have tried. I guess I'll keep trying....He thinks I'm brainwashed by some diet cult.

I know the WAPF suggested to give extra CLO and vitamin C. And I can hope and pray. After all I also survived several vaccines including the smallpox and had no reactions to anything. But I'm sure they contributed to my leaky gut.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bluets*
preparing for vaxes... I think Momtezuma in the vax forum has recommended in the past (if one must do vaxes) that you dose your dc with 500 mg of sodium ascorbate (and only sodium ascorbate - not ascorbic acid) prior to the vax (30 minutes or so, i think). definitely do NOT under any circumstance administer any fever reducer after the vax. be diligent in watching for signs of reactions, knowing that reactions may occur up to 2 weeks (or more) after the vax - if a reaction occurs, be firm with the doc and insist that it be reported to VAERS (or get the batch/lot # and brand of the vax and report it yourself).

Thanks, what is sodium ascorbate?


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## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

It's a form of vit c that is very absorbable and easily used by cells. It comes in crystals and is a bit hard to find sometimes.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I've seen several threads asking how to minimize damage (and posted myself--DH is military and they have mandatory vaxes for him) and there are never any replies. But it wouldn't hurt to try.

Then look in the archives because I remember discussions like this coming up -- like the ascorbate acid.

My husband was hesitant too but, by chance, our family practice doc typically recommends at least delaying. We agreed we would delay for a year and then revisit the decision. We haven't really talked much about it since.







My son is now 4 and somehow in that time, my husband changed his mind on this.

Actually, it's been so long, I had forgotten. I did play a bit more of a role in helping him reform his position.







My husband has a background in a certain type of research design and I found a study that used that same design to show that vaxes were ineffective.







I don't have it anymore. Lost that link long ago. But it was one of those cross-national analyses of disease rates and vax rates over time.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Yes I have tried negotiating and he said no. I believe the ultimate decision is his and I have to submit. He does know some kids have very extreme reactions (our pastors first child - so all of their kids are unvaxed) and even die from it, but he said our kids will be vaxed and that's that. He wouldn't read the evidence against vaccines, even if I put it in front of him. I have tried. I guess I'll keep trying....He thinks I'm brainwashed by some diet cult.

I know the WAPF suggested to give extra CLO and vitamin C. And I can hope and pray. After all I also survived several vaccines including the smallpox and had no reactions to anything. But I'm sure they contributed to my leaky gut.

If I had to vax this is what I would do (I don't know if your DH would be open to this or not...). I would wait until 2 years (I believe in Japan they don't give any vaxes until age 2 because the immune system can't really do anything with them anyway until that age--there's a technical reason why but I don't remember it, so maybe he would go for that). I would also only give one dose at a time and wait as long as possible between each vax, preferably at least a month if not more. Also, do you have the option of giving only the vaxes that are required for school entry? This number is usually less than what the CDC or AAP recommend (can't remember which) and some vaxes aren't even required so you might have to do fewer vaxes if you can go that route. Good luck and I hope everything goes okay for your DC--I know that is a really tough position to be in.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

I just ordered my first bottle of CLO and my first tub of coconut oil. Do I get a membership card or something?


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
If I had to vax this is what I would do (I don't know if your DH would be open to this or not...). I would wait until 2 years (I believe in Japan they don't give any vaxes until age 2 because the immune system can't really do anything with them anyway until that age--there's a technical reason why but I don't remember it, so maybe he would go for that). I would also only give one dose at a time and wait as long as possible between each vax, preferably at least a month if not more. Also, do you have the option of giving only the vaxes that are required for school entry? This number is usually less than what the CDC or AAP recommend (can't remember which) and some vaxes aren't even required so you might have to do fewer vaxes if you can go that route. Good luck and I hope everything goes okay for your DC--I know that is a really tough position to be in.









Awww. Thank you guys for all the ideas! I'll try the postponing thing and maybe with the time my DH will change his mind... actually the school thing is not an issue, we are planning to homeshool. It's just that my family totally believes mainstream medical doctrines. The doctor says blahblah blah...


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## Ambercrystal (Apr 17, 2006)

can you go to a dr. that will give a dead vaccination?


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## Ambercrystal (Apr 17, 2006)

exzema could also be from chlorine in water. i would buy chlorine filters for shower and bath.


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## Ambercrystal (Apr 17, 2006)

http://www.grasslandbeef.com/index.html

you can order grass fed meat and raw dairy to get delivered to all 50 states


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## Ambercrystal (Apr 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
i want to add kefir sodas for myself, but right now i'm only gving kefir to dh. he's about to change jobs (We're pretty sure), so i'm going to start him on scd when he'll have to interact with the fewest people. it is going to suck to be around him during die-off!

i'm thinking i may add kefir to the girls and me after we've been on scd for 2 monre months. (we've had it before and i think it gave the girls a rash, but now i think that's because i hgave them storebought with sugar in it.) i also want to buy some bottles to make soda--i already bought the ginger and the lime juice.

my face has been breaking out since the diet started almost. i thought it was because i stopped using some product that bliss labs convinced me i needed







. then i thought perhaps it was stress. i don't know what it is, but i put a little coconut oil on this am and am interested in buying some big tubs noW!

i'm working on the water thing too, but i forget all the time. i used to drink SO much! now i'm afraid i drink too little. finding your own balance is such a hard job! but hopefully my girls won't have to go thru this themselves. i really wish i had somebody to tell me what to do every step of the way. i appreciate your guys being here.

now i need to stop a fight and the imminent destruction of a book.

i strongly believe in metabolic typing. it is not just the foods we eat, but the order that we eat them for optimal cell oxidation.


----------



## TopazBlueMama (Nov 23, 2002)

Someone was asking about Mountain Rose Herbs coconut oil. I just ordered the Organic food grade virgin coconut oil from them-1 gallon for only 28.00! It tastes to me just as good as the other high quality coconut oils I have tried!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

On the vax thing. Homeopathic Thuja is supposed to help with reactions. I would assume that giving it after a vax is a good idea even if there is no noticable reaction.

My dh was totally pro vax and I have slowly won him over to my side. It has taken time but basically I told him that unless he read what I had read I refused to consider his uninformed opinion. If he read it and came to a different conclusion we could talk about it. Well he read it and decided we need to do selective delayed vaxing. I have agreed to this although at this point she hasn't had any and I don't know when she will. I'm waiting till her blood brain barrier closes up at 3 ish at a minimum.

Actually I was pro-vax untill I realized that my Dr isn't. They have an anti-vax book in the waiting room that totally opened my eyes. Luckily it is easy to not vax with this family practice since they don't recomend vaxes anyhow.

I understand submission, I was raised in a very conservative denomination. I just don't agree that submission includes doing something that you beleive is harmful to your children (or to anyone else for that matter). I think you and he need to keep working on this to reach a compromise that you both can live with. The Cave book includes a delayed schedule that she recomends. All the vaxes are given, just in a way to minimize damage. What about following that?







mama.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Oh I ordered the eat fat lose fat book and spent quite a long time looking up co stuff on the internet last night, but I'm not sure if what I read is correct or not. Can anyone give me a primer on co while I wait for the book? (free amazon shipping so who knows when it will arrive.)

Mostly I'm interested in dosing, getting started and ideas for dealing with die off.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Here is the link to the thread with various avocado pudding recipes. avocado puddings I made the first one firefaery posted yesterday, which was the super yummy one. I made the one with banana and cocoa today, but the little bit I tasted isn't as good. Although DD said she liked it.

My stomach is enormas today.







Not sure if this counts in the getting worse before better, or just not good.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

In EFLF on the Health and Recovery Diet she recommends 1-2 T in warm water or herbal tea before every meal.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I really hope I'm not offending you and New Mama. Sometimes I have so little time to get my knowledge out there I trample on some people's feelings.









I am definitely not offended. I actually believe that in primitive societies it's probably healthy to eat animals/animal products -- part of the cycle of life, totally healthy and natural-fed animals. I just don't feel that eating those things in our society/culture today is healthy. So I'm open to different thinking on the subject...though I have to admit whenever one of you mentions "bone broth" I get seriously icked out, lol!

And I want to add how much I really appreciate you and everyone else taking the time to help me understand all this. You guys are great!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Another thing on submission, for things to be in their proper order under that religious framework, the woman submits to her husband and the husband submits to God. So, the question is not should you submit to your husband, but is God calling for this child to be vaccinated?

From this framework, perhaps you could talk about how God made our bodies to function and then engage in a discussion about how vaccines help or hinder God's design.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Another thing on submission, for things to be in their proper order under that religious framework, the woman submits to her husband and the husband submits to God. So, the question is not should you submit to your husband, but is God calling for this child to be vaccinated?

From this framework, perhaps you could talk about how God made our bodies to function and then engage in a discussion about how vaccines help or hinder God's design.

Any ideas on how I could apply this logic to circumcision (or not circumcising)? I tried telling DH they don't do it the same way today as they do in the Bible and he wasn't impressed. I don't think he wants it as a religious thing, he just wants it done (who knows though as he won't discuss it at all other than to say he wants it done).


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Any ideas on how I could apply this logic to circumcision (or not circumcising)? I tried telling DH they don't do it the same way today as they do in the Bible and he wasn't impressed. I don't think he wants it as a religious thing, he just wants it done (who knows though as he won't discuss it at all other than to say he wants it done).

I don't know if this will help, but I wrote a blog entry about why we weren't choosing to circumcise our son. My husband was for it at first (and he has two teenaged sons from his first marriage who are circ'ed) but changed his mind the more research I shared with him. You can read it here: http://newmamamusings.blogspot.com/2...-decision.html


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Is veggie broth (homemade) okay at any stage of the diet? I'm not eating nearly as many veggies as I used to because I can't eat raw or as much of a variety, and I would like to try to make up some of the difference with veggie broth (and put some veggies in there that I can't eat yet).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I don't know if this will help, but I wrote a blog entry about why we weren't choosing to circumcise our son. My husband was for it at first (and he has two teenaged sons from his first marriage who are circ'ed) but changed his mind the more research I shared with him. You can read it here: http://newmamamusings.blogspot.com/2...-decision.html

He won't discuss it at all, so I can't even tell him what I researched like I did with vaccines. I just thought if I can come up with a Biblical reason why we shouldn't he might listen to that. Actually I'm hoping he'll just overhear some conversation at work about circumcision and then start to think about it....I've got time since I'm not planning on another baby for a couple of years!


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

subbing


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Another thing on submission, for things to be in their proper order under that religious framework, the woman submits to her husband and the husband submits to God. So, the question is not should you submit to your husband, but is God calling for this child to be vaccinated?

From this framework, perhaps you could talk about how God made our bodies to function and then engage in a discussion about how vaccines help or hinder God's design.

Wow - this is OT, but that really rocked my world. Thank you for that!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)




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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tweetybirds2*
Someone was asking about Mountain Rose Herbs coconut oil. I just ordered the Organic food grade virgin coconut oil from them-1 gallon for only 28.00! It tastes to me just as good as the other high quality coconut oils I have tried!

Including shipping?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok on the co. Does it matter if it is refined? I've got a case of refined (cause dh was complaining about the taste when I cooked foods in unrefined). Should I get unrefined when I finish this? It is spectrum organic (I think).

Anyone have a good web page that has accurate co info?

Oh and I am definately having some die off from the co. I almost forgot all about the pascalite. I started taking that again and no more problems! Also it seems to have fixed my problems with the enzymes! I'm thinking about putting some in a jar with water, letting it sit overnight and just pouring the water off the top for dd since she doesn't like drinking the gritty water. Will this work?

Oh my mom is following the diet but using lactaid in her milk. She also tried raw goats milk. I'm very frustrated cause she doesn't seem to quite get it. She isn't having any die off and figures that since she ate all scd at my house for 2 weeks and doesn't have any D she doesn't need to do the intro. She's gonna be stuck on this diet forever! But she does say that she feels better than she ever did on the gf diet so she wants to do it.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

And I just realised that we have been doing this for nearly 3 months! We can do coconut milk soon!!! So, I still have some of the old canned milk that is ok but then what to do??? Who had that concentrate stuff??? How was it??? Where do I get it?


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

The concentrate stuff sucked. Not worth it at all. I wish I could return mine. I use Native Forest Organic Coconut Milk and I've been using it from the getgo as Rubin had recommended it and I tend to trust his angle on nutrition


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Is veggie broth (homemade) okay at any stage of the diet? I'm not eating nearly as many veggies as I used to because I can't eat raw or as much of a variety, and I would like to try to make up some of the difference with veggie broth (and put some veggies in there that I can't eat yet).

Yes absolutely, but won't have minerals or gelatin of those "b" broths







to New Mama!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yes absolutely, but won't have minerals or gelatin of those "b" broths







to New Mama!

Oh I'll still do the bone broths...I was thinking of simmering them down some and then adding veggie broth to "reconstitute" them...that way I get the best of both!

Do you have any idea of Odwalla or Naked 100% juices are SCD legal?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Wilderness Family Naturals is supposed to carry coconut milk that has no additives but they are out of stock now, maybe you can email them?

More info on Coconut oil:
http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/articles.htm
http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/faq.htm
http://www.eatfatlosefat.com/FAQ.html (what to do about nausea, reactions)

Also EFLF recommends swedish bitters 1/2 tsp or ACV before meals to stimulate bile if having trouble digesting a lot more fat.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Do you have any idea of Odwalla or Naked 100% juices are SCD legal?

Nope, I think you'd have to ask them.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Patty,

I think both kinds of Spectrum are









Nutiva is the one available in stores that is better, fresher but it is unrefined/raw.

Tropical Traditions is having a sale on the refined stuff right now.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Okay Caedmyn, you know by now that I am not the person to ask about religious stuff. But, maybe I can at least start to try to help you out. I have a good friend (very religious-Jewish) that is struggling over circumcision. My other good friend (who is very anti-circ) has been walking her through it. The basic idea (if I'm following her arguement) is that biblically, male children who were circ'd had a very small piece of foreskin removed-nothing close to what they have now. Eventually it became known that jews were able to "disguise" themselves to look like gentiles so the higher ups decided that more foreskin should be removed so that there would be no mistake. Therefore, circumcision the way we know it today was conceived by man and not dictated by God. If you want more info-I can ask her. She seems to know alot about this subject.

OT- I circed my ds, out of ignorance. I researched everything else and left that up to my dh who had no real preference and just said, "hey, why not?" So we did it. I still have nightmares, it was by far the worst thing I have been through and I have gone to therapy for specifically that issue. I refused to have more kids until my dh was on board to NEVER do that again. It's a major decision that I wasn't educated about. A horrifying thing to watch. Just my .02.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Avocado Pudding

1 avocado
1 T. almond or other nut butter
1-2 T. honey
1/2 tsp. vanilla

Whirl in fp 'til smooth. Devour.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
I just ordered my first bottle of CLO and my first tub of coconut oil. Do I get a membership card or something?

















Yep!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

My DH was going along with my "wait until 2 to vax" decision until he finally read Barbara Loe Fisher's article a while back in _Mothering_. (I left it in bathroom figuring someday he'll be stuck in there with some time.







)

He literally got sick to his stomach and said, "No way." At that point too I had done so much research and had starring getting a clue about DS's issues that I had also arrived to Never Ever too.

Quote:

In the Wake of Vaccines
By Barbara Loe Fisher
Issue 126, September/October 2004

The founder of the National Vaccine Information Center raises profound questions about the relationship between the rise in chronic illness and the increase in childhood vaccinations.

America and America's children are in the midst of an epidemic of chronic disease and disability. Today, the Centers for Disease Control admits that one American child in 166 has been diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder.1 In 1970, autism affected four in 10,000 children.2 By 1991, 5,000 autistic children were in the public school system; by 2001, that number had grown to 94,000.3
Today, the CDC reports that 9 million American children under 18 have been diagnosed with asthma.4 In 1979, asthma affected approximately 2 million children under age 14.5

Today, nearly 3 million children in public schools are classified as learning disabled. In 1976, there were 796,000 learning-disabled children in public schools.6
Today, the CDC reports that 4 million children between the ages of 3 and 17 years have been diagnosed with ADHD.7 The government has only recently begun monitoring the numbers of children with ADHD. In 1997, ADHD was reported to affect about 1.6 million elementary school children.

Today, 206,000 Americans under the age of 20 have type 1 diabetes, while type 2 diabetes is mysteriously on the rise in children and adolescents. The CDC estimates that 1 in 400 to 500 American children and adolescents are now diabetic.8 Between 1945 and 1969, the incidence of diabetes in children aged 6 to 18 was approximately 1 in 7,100 children.9

Today, arthritis affects one in three Americans, and about 300,000 American children have juvenile rheumatoid arthritis.10 Juvenile rheumatoid arthritis used to be so rare that statistics were not kept until its recent rise in children.
These brain and immune-system disorders plaguing millions of the most highly vaccinated children in the world are preventing too many of them from thriving, learning, and achieving in the ways past generations of children have thrived, learned, and achieved. And our nation is only beginning to understand the enormous price tag that comes with the burden of chronic disease. In America, the cost of health care for chronic disease is estimated to be $425 billion a year, and it is rising.11 ....
http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...ines/wake.html


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

AmyD What kind of concentrate did you get? How did you use it?s

I have Tropical traditions coconut cream concentrate adn love it. I mix with honey, butter, and vanilla and make a frosting for the banana carrot cake adn it is absolutely









when I was eating bsread or graham crackers I warmed it up in the toaster oven and spread it on.

Just wondering how you didn't like it.

Also when can you use coconut oil/coconut on SCD. Do you have to wait for 3 months like the milk. I can't remember.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Hmmm it has a bunch of illegals in it so no good on scd.

Quote:

Organic coconut milk (organic coconut, water, cornstarch, carrageenan, xanthan gum, citric acid).
I'm not finding one that is scd legal







:


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Avocado Pudding

1 avocado
1 T. almond or other nut butter
1-2 T. honey
1/2 tsp. vanilla

Whirl in fp 'til smooth. Devour.









Add some frozen berries (I did raspberries yesterday) and it is super yum.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

i'm so delayed in replying here--but i did vax. thank god i stopped before the mmr. but i swear i'm seeing reactions in them like they're healing from each vax i gave them. you probably think i'm insane. the last vax they had was the chicken pox, and then the first illness they got on scd was a roseola-like virus, but the dr said it was NOT roseola (it was important to her for some reason)--i think it was a pox hybrid because some of those spots were blisters and they were in weird places all over the body and face. anyway, they've had various minor things that i really think are related to healing the damage vaxxes did, all since we've started the diet. thank god i'm nursing. thank god i didn't listen to my first pedi (altho i did start them on solids too sooon because of her; my poor babes.

and i hear you on marrying into a wapf family. i've told people it's like i've joined a cult. i think all disease is sugar-related; ie, related to foods that have been stripped of their nutrients/processed. i told my best friend about NT, and she's hooked. i knew i loved her!

sorry for the diversionary rambling..........

oh--and butteruit squash chips are better than you think they'll be. my girls love them. i buy every single organic butternut squash i see. (sorry, i can't remember who was asking for snack ideas.) and caedmyn, i just started doing nut cookies, testing on self first, and i made zucchini muffins today. the girls wouldn't take a nap or go to bed tho. it was the muffin or cheese. i got excited and added too much today.... and one more thing--i did too much juice for a few days there too; i never did juice before, and i realized one day i'd gotten carried away. with honey too. sigh.

A MONTH ON THE DIET, PRETTY FANATICALLY, ADDING COCONUT OIL TO MY GREAT DELIGHT


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Yeah! DD hasn't had bloody poop for a week...of course it will probably start up again tomorrow, but it seems that progress is being made--although I don't know if it is the diet or finally having dairy eliminated for long enough. Now if only her other "allergy" symptoms would go away (dark circles under eyes, sometimes greenish poop, rashes). And her eczema--somebody commented on her "rosy" cheeks last night and it made me kind of sad since they are eczema related.

Oh, and my goat share contact person called me today and said they have a share available







So hopefully in a couple of weeks I can start in with 24 hr goat yogurt. I've also ordered 2 weeks worth of really strong probiotics so I will use those first before I start the yogurt. I sure hope killing the yeast with probiotics and raw garlic is the answer as thus far I haven't seen any concrete results from the diet.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I sure hope killing the yeast with probiotics and raw garlic is the answer as thus far I haven't seen any concrete results from the diet.[/QUOTE]

Me too! I'm having no luck with SCD even though I cut out honey and fruits (except avocadoes and blueberries). How much garlic are you eating?

JaneS, thanks so much for posting the article on vaccines, I'll have something to stick on the refrigerator...

Also, if you can't give Tylenol or Ibuprophen, what do you do when they have a fever?
My DD2 had fever all night. First I did nothing because it's a good thing, but she was so miserable, couldn't sleep, so I tried cold compresses, didn't work so I gave up and gace her a half dose Tylenol which did the trick. It's the lesser of the two evils, right?


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yes absolutely, but won't have minerals or gelatin of those "b" broths







to New Mama!


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:

Also, if you can't give Tylenol or Ibuprophen, what do you do when they have a fever?
My DD2 had fever all night. First I did nothing because it's a good thing, but she was so miserable, couldn't sleep, so I tried cold compresses, didn't work so I gave up and gace her a half dose Tylenol which did the trick. It's the lesser of the two evils, right?

Here is a thread about this question. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=tylenol

And here is one about the benefits of a fever: http://www.jrussellshealth.com/fever.html

One issue is that Tylenol wears off abruptly and Motrin wears off more slowly. Ferver spikes are more common when Tylenol wears off abruptly. Febrile seizures are more common with fever spikes. We never use Tylenol. There are potential issues with liver toxicity too. Motrin has risks associated with taking it with viruses. And masking illness and vaccine reactions is a whole 'nuther issue.

Pat


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

ebg- are the blueberries cooked? Are you cooking and deseeding everything you eat? Did you do the intro diet? Have you tried enzymes?


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Quote:

My DH was going along with my "wait until 2 to vax" decision until he finally read Barbara Loe Fisher's article a while back in Mothering.
Yep, this helped here, too







. Also the picture of her son looked like our DS, so it became easier since then.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Hmmm it has a bunch of illegals in it so no good on scd.

I'm not finding one that is scd legal







:

That's so strange. My Native Forest contains, organic coconut, water & guar gum. And IIRC from this thread 6 months or so back, the level of guar gum was legal. I get mine from a buying club for $1.23/can. Now that Thai Kitchen adds soy lecitin to theirs, this is the only one I've found. Plus, its tastier than Thai Kitchen









It's funny I keep searching online to get the ingredients & I keep coming up w/the same ingredients you posted. The can is also different. The can I have looks like the Light can, but it is the full fat one. Looks like I'll have to call the company & find out if they are changing their formulations, or if this website is out of date









http://www.nextag.com/Native-Forest-...tzB10z5---html

See post 15 too. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=124579

I have the Tropical traditions concentrate too. I was trying to make milk w/it. Took like 1/2c to make 16 oz--not the 2T or whatever they stated. It is also reaslly hard & not creamy--must be too cold









This one is accurate, plus they sell it in a 3.15 quart size








http://shop.deliciousorganics.com/in...ategory_ID=211


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Me too! I'm having no luck with SCD even though I cut out honey and fruits (except avocadoes and blueberries). How much garlic are you eating?


One clove a day, chopped up fine and put into gelatin capsules.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Okay, just called Edward & Sons, the distributor of the coconut milk. The woman I spoke w/said that to her knowledge, the website was out of date and that the ingredients in the can I had in my hand were accurate and she knows of no change to the ingredients you mentioned. In fact she said that since she has been w/the company the ingredients have only been coconut, water and guar, so the website must be terribly out of date.

Whew.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

AmyD I really suggest you try making the banana carrot cake (Linda's or something on one of the SCD sites) and then make a frosting with the coconut cream. I warmed it up in the toaster oven., Then whipped it with some butter, honey, and vanilla. Then spread it on the cake. It is really thick and not smooth and creamy like frosting but tastes oh so good. It will harden up a little, but not like it is in the jar. Then I sprinkle the apricots and almonds on that. This cake tastes so much like regular cake even my dad liked it and he is a major sugar guy.

And if you ever try making some SCD legal graham crackers, I bet it would go great on that. Or even the breads, but I haven't tried any of those yet. My sister-in-law also said it sucked for making milk--too gritty.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

So I want to order my supplements today. I can't remember if anyone recommended a good brand of selenium or not? What kind do you all take? Also what do you take for your B vitamins?

Ok and one more Question!! JaneS DId you ever find a good natural C that was SCD legal?

I want to order the natural Calm mag, some selenium, B vitamins, and some natural C. Am I forgetting anything?

Thanks


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
ebg- are the blueberries cooked? Are you cooking and deseeding everything you eat? Did you do the intro diet? Have you tried enzymes?

Kind of... I use frozen ones and warm them up on the stove, and mix it in my yogurt. I cook my veggies except tomatoes. I should probably skin them, huh? Maybe I'll go back to the intro for a few days with my daughter. I just made the chicken soup again.... However, it's kind of boring without the fruit juice and honey. (candida likes fructose, too). I started the enzymes last week and they did help with digestion but are causing a worsening of eczema. I don't do high proteases yet, wanted a broad-spectrum one first. Maybe I'll add some bromelain, it's supoosed to help with inflammation... I was very careful about choosing supplements and I'm pretty sure I don't have any suppl. with illegals in them.
Don't do nut flour/butter or legumes. So I don't know why there's no progress....... oh, maybe spices? I use sea salt, sometimes potassiom chloride, pepper, paprika, chili and cumin. Oh and lots of raw garlic and onions.
Anyway, no progress in 3 months.... my daughter is doing great although my DH and MIL feed her all kinds of junk but it's not working for me.







I'm thinking the SCD is not aggressive enough for yeast.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Blueberries have tough skins. My dd just recently started digesting them instead of passing them right through. You really should try cooking them, not just heating them. You want to break down the fiber. Also the tomatos need to both be peeled and deseeded as well as cooked.

Have you though about trying the coconut oil? Also what are you doing to help with die off? The pascalite clay is really helping me (when I remember to take it







) I give dd an epsom salt bath daily. Something that will give you liver support too will help with detox. Milk thistle is a classic liver support herb. My guess about the excema getting worse is that it is die off.

Our main issue is candidia and we have seen big improvements (and major die off esp at first) on scd.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Me again, with an update and some questions:

*What I'm doing:* digestive enzymes before every meal, l-glutamine & MSM powders, zinc, probiotics twice a day, CLO -- started one week ago.

*Why I'm doing it:* moderate (but annoying, especially after 25 years!) acne and my 9-month-old son's spitting up (which has tapered off a lot, but still seems in reaction to my eating soy/dairy)

*What I've noticed:* My skin doesn't seem any worse, so that's good, and I know it can take a while to clear up, so I'm giving it at least a month until I make any judgements. However, my tongue, which has always had a white coating, doesn't seem to have the coating anymore. Why would that be?

Also, my son seems a lot hungrier than usual in the past few days/nights. He's EBF, and I'm thinking of adding in some solids now that he seems hungrier. Any thoughts on that? Is it coincident with my starting this program or because of it?


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Quote:

However, my tongue, which has always had a white coating, doesn't seem to have the coating anymore. Why would that be?
In Chinese Medicine, a white coated tongue indicates excess mucous!! If its gone....GREAT! You ARE healing!


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## roses1001 (Jun 12, 2002)

I'm really wanting to make yogurt, but I have some questions I hope someone can help me with. First of all, I know there's the oven method and the heating pad method. Are there any other methods? I don't have a yogurt maker.

I know with the oven method you generally have to use a 60 watt bulb. Everything I've read says that's a fire hazard--using a higher watt bulb than you're supposed to. Any thoughts on that? What about the heating pad in the cooler? Isn't that a safety hazard, too?

Ok, more questions...do you put a top on the container when making yogurt? And when checking the temperature, do you check the actual yogurt or just the oven/cooler? It just seems like it would be hard to keep a stable temperature if I'm opening the oven, taking of the lid of the yogurt, and waiting for my thermometer to read the temp.

Thanks.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Hmmm it has a bunch of illegals in it so no good on scd.

I'm not finding one that is scd legal







:

There are a couple of brands listed in EFLF that are in Asian grocery stores with no additives, but they do have preservatives.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Add some frozen berries (I did raspberries yesterday) and it is super yum.

Oooooo... good idea. I also make one with coconut oil and fresh lemon juice, that would be awesome with raspberries!


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Blueberries have tough skins. My dd just recently started digesting them instead of passing them right through. You really should try cooking them, not just heating them. You want to break down the fiber. Also the tomatos need to both be peeled and deseeded as well as cooked.

Have you though about trying the coconut oil? Also what are you doing to help with die off? The pascalite clay is really helping me (when I remember to take it







) I give dd an epsom salt bath daily. Something that will give you liver support too will help with detox. Milk thistle is a classic liver support herb. My guess about the excema getting worse is that it is die off.

Our main issue is candidia and we have seen big improvements (and major die off esp at first) on scd.

Actually I've been off blueberries for about 3 weeks, I just had a little today. I do take coconut oil and also apply it to my skin. This is the most bearable form of topical treatment. I'm taking vitamin C with Quercetin for the histamine reaction. What is pascalite clay, where do you get it? is it mentioned on the WAPF or the enzymestuff website, I remember reading about it somewhere?
I will definitely try the epsom salts. I think milk thistle is illegal. It's been worse since I addeed enzymes but I also had some ezekiel bread, it turns out it has soy!:







So I don't know if it's die-off from the enzymes or candida loves soy and grains. But before I started the enzymes I was plateauing for like 2 months.
So you saw improvements even with all the juice and honey? I thought they all feed candida...I'm happy for you and hope I'll get rid of it, too.
I just made the avocado pudding. Hope the almond butter and honey won't make things worse...


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

JaneS,

How long did it take you guys to get rid of the eczema problem, did you follow only SCD? What enzymes helped the most?
I'm tired of only getting die-off and no improvement... (3 months SCD, 5 months low-carb)


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Actually I've been off blueberries for about 3 weeks, I just had a little today. I do take coconut oil and also apply it to my skin. This is the most bearable form of topical treatment. I'm taking vitamin C with Quercetin for the histamine reaction. What is pascalite clay, where do you get it? is it mentioned on the WAPF or the enzymestuff website, I remember reading about it somewhere?
I will definitely try the epsom salts. I think milk thistle is illegal. It's been worse since I addeed enzymes but I also had some ezekiel bread, it turns out it has soy!:







So I don't know if it's die-off from the enzymes or candida loves soy and grains. But before I started the enzymes I was plateauing for like 2 months.
So you saw improvements even with all the juice and honey? I thought they all feed candida...I'm happy for you and hope I'll get rid of it, too.
I just made the avocado pudding. Hope the almond butter and honey won't make things worse...

I'm not sure who here first mentioned the Pascalite. Google it to find where ti buy it. The stuff is awesome!
If milk thistle is illegal I'm getting some illegals then. I'm on something to support my liver and another suppliment to support my gal bladder. My chiro, who is familiar with scd, put me on them to help me detox. They sure helped me cope with die off.
You do realize that ezekiel bread is illegal right?
I try to take it easy on the juice and honey but I also need to make stuff I can stand to eat (and can get into my dd). Her bottom had a constant yeast diaper rash for a year before starting scd. It has been clear for about a month now I would guess (10 weeks on scd I think).
Now that I have started the coconut oil I'm constipated again. I'm sure it is die off again. I have used coconut oil and honey to wash my face for about a year. I have the best looking skin of my life right now although I currently have a ton of clogged pores. I think that is another detox thing for me though. I'm really excited about co and the possibilities.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
So I want to order my supplements today. I can't remember if anyone recommended a good brand of selenium or not? What kind do you all take? Also what do you take for your B vitamins?

Ok and one more Question!! JaneS DId you ever find a good natural C that was SCD legal?

I want to order the natural Calm mag, some selenium, B vitamins, and some natural C. Am I forgetting anything?

Thanks

Yes, Amla C, which also has plant tannins I was happy to see. They are one of the things the nasty bacteria that showed up on DS's stool test is sensitive to:
http://www.papanature.com/store/Prod...&pid=PAR-77745

However, check on the tannins. Some people might be sensitive to them. There is also Himalya Amla which I don't know anything about but I do believe there are no fillers added.
http://www.papanature.com/store/Prod...&pid=HIM-40201

I've never found an additive free acerola powder.

Selenium http://www.papanature.com/store/Prod...&pid=SNS-00923
V. imp. to get the selenomethionine one that is yeast free.

I don't use B's. I wonder if Amanda does, she would have a good rec. There is a better kind of B12 but I forget what it is.

You have CLO of course?

I think I might order desiccated liver tablets. Carlson's or Solgar is recommended in EFLF.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
JaneS,

How long did it take you guys to get rid of the eczema problem, did you follow only SCD? What enzymes helped the most?
I'm tired of only getting die-off and no improvement... (3 months SCD, 5 months low-carb)

Cod liver oil, flax and then evening primrose oil, quercitin and an Elmination Diet before SCD.

I think the type of fats you eat are crucial, have you seen The Eczema Tribe thread?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Anyway, no progress in 3 months.... my daughter is doing great although my DH and MIL feed her all kinds of junk but it's not working for me.







I'm thinking the SCD is not aggressive enough for yeast.

Work up on the enzymes and start taking them in between meals.

Revisit the nutrition needed for healing the gut on Cheat Sheet.

I just came across again that vitamin A is essential for the integrity of the epithelial structures of the body (skin and gut lining). Could be something like this too. If you are A deficient just a couple thousand IU is not going to rebuild your stores, go for a couple T. of high vitamin CLO.

Or it could be bacterial like my DS. He's had not much progress on the whole since last Sept. In that case, try a stool test to see exactly what you have and consider herbs or similar type of "killer" treatment.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Also, consider that SCD is not working and try something else like EFLF plan with coconut oil. Or Jordan Rubin's Maker's Diet with HSOs. Or kefir and kombucha and lacto fermented veggies (also on EFLF).

Believe me I know how frustrating it is! At least you can do more than a child can.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Hmm. They are out but I can get it at vitacost.com. But they don't have the slelnium. So what about this selenium?

http://www.vitacost.com/NSISelenium/cas-1


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Thank you guys....

As for the types of fat, I've been using only butter, coconut oil and some EVOO, no omega 6 oils since December when I went on an LC diet. Then I found SCD in January. Some bad oils are legal, I wonder why... I'm also taking 2 tablespoons of Carlsons CLO, the high vitamin ones don't have enough EFA-s for the price. I did the EPO for about a week but my babe got hives from it. At least I think that was the problem because that was the only thing I added that week and when I stopped, her bumps went away, too. Has anyone had reactions to Evening primrose oil?
I also tried, months ago, the flax/borage combo, which gave ME full body hives. I guess I can't convert the ALA? So I'm only taking CLO for now...

I'll try the enzymes in between-meals. Can I take the same broad spec or should I get the special ones like Candidase?

I'm pretty sure it's Candida as I have other symtoms too embarrassing to discuss









OK, so it looks like I have to be stricter, no sprouted bread (I know it's illegal on SCD but I'm new to NT and just had to have some








and go back to the basics. Plus I'll try the pascalite clay, epsom salts and enzymes...

Baby steps...


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

My super strong probiotics arrived today, so I'm going to re-start SCD with the intro diet and hope the combination of that, the little bit of enzymes that I can take, and the probiotics will have some effect.

Question: when people talk about re-starting the intro diet (if you're already doing fanatical SCD) do they mean starting the whole diet over (ie intro for a bit and then add foods one at a time again) or just do the intro for a bit and then go back to whatever stage you were on, which for me is stage 2.

firefaery--did you take the probiotics before a meal like they recommend? I've read about different times to take them (right before bed for one) and was wondering what you did. And were you taking enzymes at the same time? I've also read they can cancel each other out (or the enzymes can eat some of the probiotics).


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

I have a question about undigested food, poops, and babies/toddlers. I know that one symptom of leaky gut can be undigested food in the poop. My 14 mo has this a lot. However I just keep thinking that it is normal when he only has 6 teeth. It seems that whatever he doesn't chew well would come through that way and what is chewed would digest. Is that incorrect? Should a properly functioning digestive system really completely digest all food even if not chewed? He has minor gas that doesn't seem to bother him. His big problem is sleep. I am really grasping at straws to decrease the nightwakings and wondering If I should do SCD with him. I just got the book and it is a major thing to take on if I am not sure he needs it.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Thank you guys....

As for the types of fat, I've been using only butter, coconut oil and some EVOO, no omega 6 oils since December when I went on an LC diet. Then I found SCD in January. Some bad oils are legal, I wonder why... I'm also taking 2 tablespoons of Carlsons CLO, the high vitamin ones don't have enough EFA-s for the price. I did the EPO for about a week but my babe got hives from it. At least I think that was the problem because that was the only thing I added that week and when I stopped, her bumps went away, too. Has anyone had reactions to Evening primrose oil?
I also tried, months ago, the flax/borage combo, which gave ME full body hives. I guess I can't convert the ALA? So I'm only taking CLO for now...

I'll try the enzymes in between-meals. Can I take the same broad spec or should I get the special ones like Candidase?

I'm pretty sure it's Candida as I have other symtoms too embarrassing to discuss









OK, so it looks like I have to be stricter, no sprouted bread (I know it's illegal on SCD but I'm new to NT and just had to have some








and go back to the basics. Plus I'll try the pascalite clay, epsom salts and enzymes...

Baby steps...

Definately get some vitamin A. Carlson's makes the natural version from fish liver oil. I don't know this helped my skin for sure, b/c I added so many things to my regime all at once last year, but A is really crucial for skin.

*Shanna*, you too!

The current recs are 20,000IU of A and 2,000IU vitamin D for either pg/bf or healing. You might want to consider a loading dose too b/c most are deficient if they have not been supplementing and/or eating liver.

See the Yeast/Bacteria link in Cheat Sheet. You want high amoutns of cellulases and proteases for yeast in between meals. Your broad specturm probably won't be effective enough unless you want to take like 5 or something. Candidase would be a good choice.

RE: ALA
Yes, the ability to convert this is key. Also, for reasons which I don't fully understand why... some kids do better with CLO only. And some need the ALA in EPO, this is per Leo Galland's book. I'm sure it has to do with enzymes and the gut since that is involved in the converstion.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
I have a question about undigested food, poops, and babies/toddlers. I know that one symptom of leaky gut can be undigested food in the poop. My 14 mo has this a lot. However I just keep thinking that it is normal when he only has 6 teeth. It seems that whatever he doesn't chew well would come through that way and what is chewed would digest. Is that incorrect? Should a properly functioning digestive system really completely digest all food even if not chewed? He has minor gas that doesn't seem to bother him. His big problem is sleep. I am really grasping at straws to decrease the nightwakings and wondering If I should do SCD with him. I just got the book and it is a major thing to take on if I am not sure he needs it.

I agree re: teeth and chewing. How are his stools otherwise? That's another issue that can be influenced by bm and how many solids he's eating too. I can tell you that the poop should start to be firm and brown in second year.

Any other issues that could mean intestinal flora imbalance in you or him? Have you tried CLO, that is great for the central nervous system. (I sound like a CLO Drug Pusher today!







)

Gas always bothers my DS, even only a few toots a day. If that happens I know he's uncomfortable and his sleeping is worse. Was same with me as a matter of fact!


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok so after talking about my "dd won't go to sleep" woes someone on another board mentioned that she may have restless leg syndrome. I looked it up. Sounds like me. Of course the two main determining factors are genetics esp if mom had it and low iron (I have low iron and suspect that she does too) Sooo... How can I improve her iron? I'm doing bone broths. I'm doing red meat several times a week. Do I really have to quit my one cup of tea every morning? Is there anything I/we can take? I really should do the raw liver but I'm really not sure where to get grass fed liver. Hmmmm....

I really do think that this co is a key for us, but I'm going mad with lack of sleep.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I'm taking 1 tbsp of the clo daily. I'm also nursing dd a ton and trying to heal us both. Could I/should I take more? I'm noticing my skin is having issues right now and am wondering if more clo would clear that up but I'm unsure if it is safe to increas it by much. Thoughts???


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

hrm... i have restless legs syndrome too but the reading i did suggested a magnesium deficiency...

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/r...tless_legs.htm


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'm taking 1 tbsp of the clo daily. I'm also nursing dd a ton and trying to heal us both. Could I/should I take more? I'm noticing my skin is having issues right now and am wondering if more clo would clear that up but I'm unsure if it is safe to increas it by much. Thoughts???

Pattyla-which brand of clo? I know the thread went round and round on this recently-but just thought you might share-and save me the search-thanks so much!

My DS is just a few months younger than your DD-terrible sleeper, too! I am always waiting for you to post a great breakthrough on getting a good night s sleep so I can look forward to one as well!!


----------



## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I agree re: teeth and chewing. How are his stools otherwise? That's another issue that can be influenced by bm and how many solids he's eating too. I can tell you that the poop should start to be firm and brown in second year.

Any other issues that could mean intestinal flora imbalance in you or him? Have you tried CLO, that is great for the central nervous system. (I sound like a CLO Drug Pusher today!







)

Gas always bothers my DS, even only a few toots a day. If that happens I know he's uncomfortable and his sleeping is worse. Was same with me as a matter of fact!









I am still trying to figure out if there are any other signs of imbalance. The poops actually look good otherwise. They are usually firm and brown except when he eats lots of sweet potatoes







. The sleep and gas are the ones making me wonder.Oh, another thing that makes me think of it is he had some dairy formula for a few months. I had major milk supply issues and was not able to get bm from anyone else. He also had difficulty w/ dairy in my diet (although he had dairy formula as the soy really scared me) that went away after s few months. Could I have really messed up his system? Like I said, I grasp at anything I come along that says it might affect sleep. I soooo want to figure it out as I am one tired mama. I have recently started him on the Nordic Naturals children's clo capsules. It says they are not for children under 2 but I have been giving him half a dose. It is two capsules a day. I need to look at what that translates too. Maybe you can give me a better idea of how much of them he would need? I was erring on the side of caution to be safe. Thanks so much for all your replies as I pursue this for both ds and myself.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I'm doing the blue ice high vitamin stuff. Just ordered a case of it... I just ordered a gallon of co and some other stuff. DH really shouldn't go out for the evening and leave me home alone with my computer...







I order in quantity cause it is cheapest that way. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.


----------



## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'm doing the blue ice high vitamin stuff. Just ordered a case of it... I just ordered a gallon of co and some other stuff. DH really shouldn't go out for the evening and leave me home alone with my computer...







I order in quantity cause it is cheapest that way. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

Cool! Thanks for the info! My DH is out of town for another two weeks-look out-I am thinking of a dehydrator.....


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Okay, my son's sleeping has deteriorated and I'm a wreck! He usually nurses or cries out every two-three hours all night, and now it's about every hour or so. He doesn't fully wake up, but of course I do! I don't know how other mamas say they don't even wake up to nurse...I'm awake the whole time.









I've been taking enzymes before every meal for a week now...could this be the cause of it? I think someone mentioned the April thread discussing enzymes and BF'ing, but I skimmed that thread last week and I don't remember that discussion. Can anyone tell me the gist of it?

Should I be backing off on the enzymes? If I should be "going slowly" with them, can someone tell me what that means, exactly?

Help!


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

A few more questions in a different post so they don't get lost...

*Regarding CLO* -- I think I understood some people to say that they buy different brands depending on whether or not they need certain amounts of the fatty acids, and then just supplement with vitamin A & D separately if the CLO has low amounts of those. Is that correct? And does that have to do with whether or not you're nursing/pregnant/trying to heal a condition or not? I'm about to order the Blue Ice (I am nursing)...does that sound okay? And should I be giving CLO to my son separately or is it enough that I'm taking it?

*Regarding probiotics* -- I'm taking capsules right now, but I'd like to start making kefir and yogurt. Does anyone have any recommendations for packets of probiotics -- brands, where to buy?

*Regarding CO* -- I have a jar of Nutiva EVCO and have started using it (DH used it to replace soy butter in chocolate chip cookies last night -- obviously I'm not on SCD). I'd like to try the refined as well, for times when we don't want things to taste coconut-y. Does refined have the same health benefits? Any recommendations on brands of refined CO?

Thanks!


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Okay, my son's sleeping has deteriorated and I'm a wreck! He usually nurses or cries out every two-three hours all night, and now it's about every hour or so. He doesn't fully wake up, but of course I do! I don't know how other mamas say they don't even wake up to nurse...I'm awake the whole time.









I've been taking enzymes before every meal for a week now...could this be the cause of it? I think someone mentioned the April thread discussing enzymes and BF'ing, but I skimmed that thread last week and I don't remember that discussion. Can anyone tell me the gist of it?

Should I be backing off on the enzymes? If I should be "going slowly" with them, can someone tell me what that means, exactly?

Help!

It really could be the enzymes. For me going slowly has meant 1/2 a capsule 2x a day. I'm waiting untill that causes no stomache issues at all before moving on to more.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
A few more questions in a different post so they don't get lost...

*Regarding CLO* -- I think I understood some people to say that they buy different brands depending on whether or not they need certain amounts of the fatty acids, and then just supplement with vitamin A & D separately if the CLO has low amounts of those. Is that correct? And does that have to do with whether or not you're nursing/pregnant/trying to heal a condition or not? I'm about to order the Blue Ice (I am nursing)...does that sound okay? And should I be giving CLO to my son separately or is it enough that I'm taking it?

*Regarding probiotics* -- I'm taking capsules right now, but I'd like to start making kefir and yogurt. Does anyone have any recommendations for packets of probiotics -- brands, where to buy?

*Regarding CO* -- I have a jar of Nutiva EVCO and have started using it (DH used it to replace soy butter in chocolate chip cookies last night -- obviously I'm not on SCD). I'd like to try the refined as well, for times when we don't want things to taste coconut-y. Does refined have the same health benefits? Any recommendations on brands of refined CO?

Thanks!

CLO- He will get some from your bm. I assume that if you have a lot of healing to do/high need for it you may pass on less but I'm not sure. I started giving it to my dd when she was about 12 months old and she loved it.

CO- I have the spectrum organic refined and it tastes like nothing. I read that the health benefits are similar with refined vs unrefined but perhaps somewhat less in the refined.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
It really could be the enzymes. For me going slowly has meant 1/2 a capsule 2x a day. I'm waiting untill that causes no stomache issues at all before moving on to more.

Thank you so much for your quick response -- I have been taking three-four tablets a day! But does it make sense that he's sleeping much worse in the past few nights than he did earlier in the week, since I started taking the enzymes a week ago?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Okay, my son's sleeping has deteriorated and I'm a wreck! He usually nurses or cries out every two-three hours all night, and now it's about every hour or so. He doesn't fully wake up, but of course I do! I don't know how other mamas say they don't even wake up to nurse...I'm awake the whole time.









I've been taking enzymes before every meal for a week now...could this be the cause of it? I think someone mentioned the April thread discussing enzymes and BF'ing, but I skimmed that thread last week and I don't remember that discussion. Can anyone tell me the gist of it?

Should I be backing off on the enzymes? If I should be "going slowly" with them, can someone tell me what that means, exactly?

Help!

When I first started enzymes, about 2 1/2 days after I started my 4 month old DD become very very cranky--she normally takes 4-5 really short naps every day, and now it was taking 45-60 minutes to fight her down for each one of those naps, plus she was tired and cranky once she woke up (fortunately it didn't affect her night-time sleeping or I would have gone stark raving mad!). This continued for 5 days while I was still taking the enzymes...on the fifth day I stopped taking them in the afternoon and she was fine the next day. So I definitely think sleep issues can be caused by the enzmes and they may go away right away if you stop them.

Going slowly--the recommendations are to start with 1/2 cap (when I re-started enzymes I did 1/4 cap) with 2 meals a day, do that for a couple of days, and then do 1/2 cap with each meal, and then 1/2 with each meal and snack, then go to 1 cap with 2 meals a day...you get the idea. It took me almost a week to get up to 1/4 cap with each meal and snack and it hasn't affected DD's sleep or behavior this time, although it seems to have given her an eczema flare-up.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I am new and just lurking. I don't really understand what all is eliminated on this diet. So, forgive me if I am out in left field. But, we had major sleep issues when ds was younger and we identified many food ingredients which were culprits. Dairy was the worst offender for gassy distress. We were not using raw milk, however. Wheat caused our son to draw up his legs and move them constantly while sleeping. He would lay with his legs pulled up under his abdomen/chest and apply pressure to his belly, while trying to sleep. When we eliminated the wheat, the duration of his sleep cycles increased from 50 minutes to 2-3 hours duration. He was an avid night nurser until I read the No Cry Sleep Solutionand identified additional sleep associations to include during his first sleep cycle. (how they fall asleep is how they need help getting back to sleep) I also find that some orange juice, due to the potassium helps with restless legs.

Also, if I consumed any chocolate or caffeine after about 3pm, he would be bothered (through my breastmilk). We also avoid artificial colors and flavors and preservatives due to increasing restlessness and irritability.

And I assume CLO is cod liver oil and we use Berry Keen strawberry flavor and our son loves the flavor.

HTH, Pat


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok so after talking about my "dd won't go to sleep" woes someone on another board mentioned that she may have restless leg syndrome. I looked it up. Sounds like me. Of course the two main determining factors are genetics esp if mom had it and low iron (I have low iron and suspect that she does too) Sooo... How can I improve her iron? I'm doing bone broths. I'm doing red meat several times a week. Do I really have to quit my one cup of tea every morning? Is there anything I/we can take? I really should do the raw liver but I'm really not sure where to get grass fed liver. Hmmmm....

I really do think that this co is a key for us, but I'm going mad with lack of sleep.

Restless legs is not genetic I think... if the mom has a magnesium or other deficiency, so will the babe. Hopefully someone else will have iron ideas for you. I'm a different person for sure for lack of sleep b/c of DS. It's effected every part of my life and it ain't pretty.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
I am still trying to figure out if there are any other signs of imbalance. The poops actually look good otherwise. They are usually firm and brown except when he eats lots of sweet potatoes







. The sleep and gas are the ones making me wonder.Oh, another thing that makes me think of it is he had some dairy formula for a few months. I had major milk supply issues and was not able to get bm from anyone else. He also had difficulty w/ dairy in my diet (although he had dairy formula as the soy really scared me) that went away after s few months. Could I have really messed up his system? Like I said, I grasp at anything I come along that says it might affect sleep. I soooo want to figure it out as I am one tired mama. I have recently started him on the Nordic Naturals children's clo capsules. It says they are not for children under 2 but I have been giving him half a dose. It is two capsules a day. I need to look at what that translates too. Maybe you can give me a better idea of how much of them he would need? I was erring on the side of caution to be safe. Thanks so much for all your replies as I pursue this for both ds and myself.

As far as formula "messing up his system", maybe, but I truly think for formula to be a problem, the system is messed up to begin with and the true issue is deeper than that, ykwim? Not that formula is at all great but I never had major digestive issues until my late 20's and I was raised on evaporated milk and Karo syrup formula from day 1! (Which is not to say that didn't contribute either.) Would exclusive bm have healed him, maybe.

Sleep is regulated by hormones and neurotransmitters directing the brain and central nervous system. All of which the gut and your nutrition has a hand in. It's really hard to say what exactly the issue is for one particular little one ... just watch and rely on your mama intuition.

See cod liver oil dosing recs here:
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html

Capsules might contain gelatin, which contains glutamine, good for the gut but also known to be a stimulant.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
He was an avid night nurser until I read the No Cry Sleep Solutionand identified additional sleep associations to include during his first sleep cycle. (how they fall asleep is how they need help getting back to sleep)

This is a great book. Wish my DH would read it









The "Pantley Pull Off" worked for us quite well. Gradual progress in the right direction works but it takes a lot of patience and commitment to do the same thing and work towards the eventual goal every night. You need to be awake and aware and it's pretty hard sometimes.

And a very important point re: sleep association. I'm about to re-read her new Toddler No Cry book and develop a new plan. DH has taken over some of the nighttime stuff since weaning. But things have only gotten worse b/c DH has no patience for incremental steps. And I'm literally about to lose my mind right now and honestly don't know if I can do what it will take to break all these bad habits.

So everyone, read Pantley's books and do the work to solve sleep issues now or you'll end up like us! Some excerpts on www.Kellymom.com


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
So everyone, read Pantley's books and do the work to solve sleep issues now or you'll end up like us! Some excerpts on www.Kellymom.com


Yes, the sooner the better! I remember reading that she wrote 'if you don't start creating sleep associations while they are very young, you will be working harder to do so when they are 18 months and still waking every hour to nurse'. And I was.







I found this book to be a life, and sanity, saver. Yes, it is *harder* to change the habit of only nursing to sleep, than to keep up the habit. But, it is harder to change the habit the longer the habit is kept up.....

Pat


----------



## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
This is a great book. Wish my DH would read it









The "Pantley Pull Off" worked for us quite well. Gradual progress in the right direction works but it takes a lot of patience and commitment to do the same thing and work towards the eventual goal every night. You need to be awake and aware and it's pretty hard sometimes.

And a very important point re: sleep association. I'm about to re-read her new Toddler No Cry book and develop a new plan. DH has taken over some of the nighttime stuff since weaning. But things have only gotten worse b/c DH has no patience for incremental steps. And I'm literally about to lose my mind right now and honestly don't know if I can do what it will take to break all these bad habits.

So everyone, read Pantley's books and do the work to solve sleep issues now or you'll end up like us! Some excerpts on www.Kellymom.com

Thanks for your help on my previous questions and for your insight on sleep. I recently used the Dr. Jay Gordon method to nightwean and the nightweaning part went quite well. Unfortunately, the subsequent sleep did not. He still wakes and has to be patted down instead of nursed. This is what makes me wonder if it is something besides habit. I am going to really pay attention to how he acts when he wakes and think a lot more about what we are both eating. I have eliminated wheat for myself as a baby step for my own healing. I will do the same for him and start there. I really appreciate all the stories and suggestions from everyone as it seems we all need a different approach on this journey








As for sleep habits later in childhood, my older son was a good sleeper and went to sleep on his own quite easily from about 7 months on. I could easily get him back into it when made changes from moving, vacations, etc. Now, at 5 he won't go to sleep on his own and when he wakes he calls us. I am going to have to ditto a few of you and blame dh! If you get a good thing going don't let dh turn into too much of a softie like mine and sabotage those good sleep habits.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Also I don't know if my previous post made it clear or not...I forget there are newbies here that might not know our history. There is more to my DS's sleep issues than behavior. As I saw significant sleep problems with myself totally disappear when my gut started healing.

But behavior/habit has something to do with it too.

Now, I'm considering buying one of those horrible race car toddler beds that his friends have...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Non dairy kefir recipes thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=440795


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
I recently used the Dr. Jay Gordon method to nightwean and the nightweaning part went quite well. Unfortunately, the subsequent sleep did not. He still wakes and has to be patted down instead of nursed. This is what makes me wonder if it is something besides habit.

This is our story too with DD1. Now at almost 4.5, she STILL wakes at night and needs us. We have kind of grown used to it, but it is annoying. I am a bit at a loss. She does tend to get circles under her eyes too. Not quite sure where to start trying to figure that all out for her, if it is gut related.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

So I've just finished reading Breaking the Vicious cycle (Yay! It arrived!).
From what I can tell, she's telling me that I'm being more strict than I need to be. It seems that all of the barometers for moving forward in the stages of the diet rely on diarrhea and other acute GI symptoms. I'm starting to wonder if, for treating acne, I should be moving into Stage 4 or 5, and maybe hold the legumes and fried meats for a while, possibly the nuts and nut butters just to be sure. Can anyone offer any guidance?

ETA: I'm still going to stay off any dairy for another couple of weeks.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

i
have a call into my primary care provider--my stomach hurts so badly! it's hurt all week--tender, like i'm constipated, but i'm having bms (kinda compacted i guess). maybe it's unrelated to the diet, but i feel like i've been poisoned. i introduced nuts this week, but idn't seemto have a reaction (almond cookies, prepared with NT nuts, and zucchini muffins). midweek (after the pain started) i introduced the tbsp of coconut oil before each meal. maybe that's doing it? i have no idea and i'm so frustrate and in pain! did this tender belly thing happen to anyone else? also, my skin now just sucks. i haven't had zits for months, but now i have a few. why is that happening? i'm worried i've made a bad batch of yogurt somewhere along the way and something wrong is growing in me.

we also still have sleep issues. i'm at a loss with them right now.

and i'm thinking about going more closely with eflf, but i'm so scared to introduce grains at all after doing scd. but i haven't seen as much results with the girls as i'd hoped for. their poos are darker now--a more "normal" color (tho often with a lot of orange since carrots are so easy to prepare). anyway.......


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*








So I've just finished reading Breaking the Vicious cycle (Yay! It arrived!).
From what I can tell, she's telling me that I'm being more strict than I need to be. It seems that all of the barometers for moving forward in the stages of the diet rely on diarrhea and other acute GI symptoms. I'm starting to wonder if, for treating acne, I should be moving into Stage 4 or 5, and maybe hold the legumes and fried meats for a while, possibly the nuts and nut butters just to be sure. Can anyone offer any guidance?

ETA: I'm still going to stay off any dairy for another couple of weeks.

I am considering it for acne and mild intestinal/digestive issues. I was just wondering the same thing after reading it over the past few days.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
i
have a call into my primary care provider--my stomach hurts so badly! it's hurt all week--tender, like i'm constipated, but i'm having bms (kinda compacted i guess). maybe it's unrelated to the diet, but i feel like i've been poisoned. i introduced nuts this week, but idn't seemto have a reaction (almond cookies, prepared with NT nuts, and zucchini muffins). midweek (after the pain started) i introduced the tbsp of coconut oil before each meal. maybe that's doing it? i have no idea and i'm so frustrate and in pain! did this tender belly thing happen to anyone else? also, my skin now just sucks. i haven't had zits for months, but now i have a few. why is that happening? i'm worried i've made a bad batch of yogurt somewhere along the way and something wrong is growing in me.

we also still have sleep issues. i'm at a loss with them right now.

and i'm thinking about going more closely with eflf, but i'm so scared to introduce grains at all after doing scd. but i haven't seen as much results with the girls as i'd hoped for. their poos are darker now--a more "normal" color (tho often with a lot of orange since carrots are so easy to prepare). anyway.......


It's probably the coconut oil. How much did you take? When I first had it I felt sick. And even now after 3 months, if I take too much it makes be so bloated. My tummy gets hard like when you get contractions and I get the burpies really bad, feel like throwing up,.... this happens about 2-4 hrs after eating a lot of CO, so I think by that time it's in the intestines working on the yeast. I think it's a violent die-off reaction. Anyway, it usually lasts for half an hour and then I have a bm and it goes away slowly...
Start with half a teaspoon and then work it up slowly to 3 TBS a day.

I doubt it's the yogurt. But make sure to boil everything that comes in contact with the yogurt. you don't want to grow the bad kind of bacteria.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Also, if you had the pain before coconut oil, it could also be the nuts or just plain die-off symptoms because of the sugar-withdrawal.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

thanks--my doctor thinks it's constipation (despite bm's)--but i think the coconut oil could be it. i've been using little bits, so i guess i went fast to 1.5 tbs. i'll slow down. so you think it's die off that causes the pain and not just an inability to digest it? good. i like the idea of die off







.

another question for you guys. i'm taking 4 tsp clo a day (garden of life i think). the bumps on my arms, which i read on an nt thread were due to a vit a deficiency, have gotten worse! they were better after i started nt in january, but now they are much more noticeable. can you get them from too much vit a? tho i doubt i'm really getting too much vit a. any thoughts on that?

re acne--all i can say is that i've barely introduced nuts after 5 weeks, and i have some major zits right now. i'm hoping it's somehow from detoxing, but i really don't understand my normally not-so-bad skin looking like this! grrrr. if adding fried foods would help this, i'd be all for it! but i'm going to give my gut a little longer before i make it work any harder, i think.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I'm having more die off right now thanks to CO. Constipation and super grumpy! Also very listless and my face looks like it wants to break out. Oh and I have bumps on the backs of my arms.

I'm glad for the die off but also not enjoying it. I'm off to take an epsom salts bath. That usually really helps, it is just hard to fit them in.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

More questions here. I was wondering about die off. How long does that last? One reason I am asking about it is that I had problems w/ yeast years ago and was treated by a DO that was a holistic practitioner. She tested w/ some sort of thing hooked up to a computer that she touched to your finger. I took a supplement called Candida Plus (I think), digestive enzymes, and a cleansing tea. That went along w/ some dietary changes but nothing like SCD. BEfore the treatment I was weak, fuzzy headed, had red and burning eyes, some digestive problems, and just generally felt awful. W/ in days of starting this I was a new person. My dh was out of town and came back after a few days and couldn't believe the change. I was skeptical (she pretty much diagnosed everyone she saw and put them on it but they all improved) but it was amazing. Anyway, there was no worse before getting better. It just healed me. So, I am wondering if everyone has die off or could it actuallya be something else related to the diet itself?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'm having more die off right now thanks to CO. Constipation and super grumpy! Also very listless and my face looks like it wants to break out. Oh and I have bumps on the backs of my arms.

I'm glad for the die off but also not enjoying it. I'm off to take an epsom salts bath. That usually really helps, it is just hard to fit them in.

I made some epsom salt lotion to use--I know I will NEVER get around to taking an epsom salt bath. The "Enzymes for Autism" book mentions the lotion and also epsom salt foot baths, which I might also try. I don't know how they compare to the whole body baths as far as minimizing die-off, but I figured a little was better than none!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Wow-I've missed alot! I wanted to reply to a couple of things and then I'll go back over things more throughly...

The bumps on the arms can be many things. Most commonly it's a vitamin A deficiency or a fungal issue...For us it's an allergic reaction. We have no shortage of CLO in kiddos systems and they were always taking a higher vitamin dosage. IT wasn't until dairy and gluten were out that the bumps were gone. Even now, it's how I can tell dd has gotten hidden gluten, or ds, some dairy.

Die off will make your skin get worse before it gets better[-absolutely!

Epsom salts are just about getting the magnesium. IF you won't/can't take baths you can always take it orally.

We had significant sleep issues with dd. Healing her gut was the only step we had to take. I wasn't interested in night weaning and other tactics (for me) minimized the physiological reasons she wasn't sleeping. My case is, of course my case, but healing her gut took care of sleep issues and dark circles (along with plenty of other things!)


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

I'm on day 4 of the Intro Diet now, and MAN alive, I hope this feeling lets up soon. I'm hyper-reactive, ultra-sensitive, moody and crazy irritable. I have no patience and am wiped out - just wiped all day. The good news is that my loose stool is solidifying and sometimes even sinks (sorry if TMI, but it's important to me).

I have questions: I know it says to broil the meat but I've been cooking it in my frying pan, not thinking about that. Is there a specific reason for broiling? Am I doing damage to the Intro by cooking it in the frying pan? I don't add anything, just use it's own natural juice. I returned my copy of the book to the library so cannot reference it but have one on the way that I purchased.

And: When will I start feeling good? I feel like bum. Am I doing something wrong? The only thing I am doing differently than the book is no DCCC (I cannot find organic), but instead am using drained 24 hour yogurt (cow). I love it BTW, so decadent! I add a bit of honey to it to take away the tart.

Thoughts from the experienced Mamas?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*

Epsom salts are just about getting the magnesium. IF you won't/can't take baths you can always take it orally.


I personally have not found that oral magnesium works to detox the way that an epsom salts bath does. I feel soooo much better after my bath last night. I take oral magnesium daily but I have to be careful because it tends to cause diahrea in me on a fairly low dose. I used a topical magnesium cream for a while and it caused a yeast skin rash so I quit that. The epsom salts baths do the trick. I usually put some in the tub while I shower and that helps some but when I'm feeling really bad I need to just sit and soak for 30 min in it. That makes the biggest difference of all for me.


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## Ambercrystal (Apr 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
i
have a call into my primary care provider--my stomach hurts so badly! it's hurt all week--tender, like i'm constipated, but i'm having bms (kinda compacted i guess). maybe it's unrelated to the diet, but i feel like i've been poisoned. i introduced nuts this week, but idn't seemto have a reaction (almond cookies, prepared with NT nuts, and zucchini muffins). midweek (after the pain started) i introduced the tbsp of coconut oil before each meal. maybe that's doing it? i have no idea and i'm so frustrate and in pain! did this tender belly thing happen to anyone else? also, my skin now just sucks. i haven't had zits for months, but now i have a few. why is that happening? i'm worried i've made a bad batch of yogurt somewhere along the way and something wrong is growing in me.

we also still have sleep issues. i'm at a loss with them right now.

and i'm thinking about going more closely with eflf, but i'm so scared to introduce grains at all after doing scd. but i haven't seen as much results with the girls as i'd hoped for. their poos are darker now--a more "normal" color (tho often with a lot of orange since carrots are so easy to prepare). anyway.......

are you soaking your nuts this can cause major constipation issues. "Countless nutritionists and living foods experts have all stressed that it is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to germinate (soak) all nuts and seeds for at least 12 hours before consuming them.

Germination is a process where all the vitamins, minerals, proteins and essential fatty acids (EFAs) that are dormant in nuts and seeds begin to activate and multiply. Germination also eliminates certain toxins and acids within the dormant nuts and seeds that would interfere with digestion"


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ambercrystal*
are you soaking your nuts this can cause major constipation issues. "Countless nutritionists and living foods experts have all stressed that it is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to germinate (soak) all nuts and seeds for at least 12 hours before consuming them.

Germination is a process where all the vitamins, minerals, proteins and essential fatty acids (EFAs) that are dormant in nuts and seeds begin to activate and multiply. Germination also eliminates certain toxins and acids within the dormant nuts and seeds that would interfere with digestion"

When she said "NT nuts" she meant they were soaked.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

yep--i'm soaking my nuts. i use a little premade nut flour, but i can absolutely feel the effect when i use it instead of homemade stuff. (This is why i'm hesistant to get dh on the diet--doing this for four people will do me in!) i have also been using non-organic dry curd cc, but as soon as i use up my last couple packs, i'm going the dripped yogurt route (altho i broke my candy thermometer and my "winging it" yogurt failed







). it makes my heart feel funny when i eat it--i'm so sensitive now!

and i can't believe coconut oil did all that! i thought i was really sick. now i guess it means i have lots more healing to do. how long did it take you to build up to a tablespoon from a teaspoon of cocnut oil?

also glad to know the face breaking-out stuff might be die-off related, but i'm going to a wedding in a couple weeks and my vanity is saying--do what you must to look presentable! which is what? sigh. i guess i'll just see what happens.

fwiw--i thought maybe i could go ahead and give the girls dried fruit yesterday after they busted me eating some, but alas, some made it through undigested, so i guess i will give up that goodie too.

chasmyn-- i felt lousy til about day 5. i felt ok after a week, but then the girls got sick and then i did too, and it's just been waves of ok to lousy. i felt ok today, and the girls have been seeming phenomenol for the past few days.

maybe i'll put coconut oil on my arms and see what happens







......


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Oh yeah, CO made my skin worse, too, in the beginning, until a decreased the dosage. I also jumped right in so I got a lot of big pimples on my face and bumps on arms. I still get bumps on my arms but my face is a lot better.
I just did 1 tsp once, then twice, then 3 times, and then 1 tbs , 11/2 etc, I think I'm not taking more than 2 at the moment. I keep forgetting, I take so many supplements. If I go over 2 tbs or 3 I get sick at night. I like to think it's the die-off and not that I can't digest it. My enzymes have lipases so I think it's not the digestion.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I made Jane's cashew cake YUMMMMYYYY!!! I'm thrilled!!! The texture is awesome! I made a loaf of bread too. Saving that for sandwiches for tomorrow.

Nicolena- Have you tried washing your face with the coconut oil? I started doing the oil cleansing method a year or more ago. I started out with castor oil and evoo. I've slowly changed it over time and now I wash with just coconut oil. Just rub it in really good and rinse off with hot water and a wash cloth. I do that at night and use honey to wash my face in the morning. I find it to be a pain to do the ocm 2x a day but my skin looked the best when I did that. CO is really amazing stuff.

That ES bath really helped me. I'm feeling funky again but not as bad as yesterday. It isn't helping that dd has been sleeping really badly. I'm going to try irish spring soap in the bed tonight to see if that helps. I keep most of our sleep woes to myself because I just don't want the advice. Every time I mention it to someone I get great advice like "All I had to do was tell my kids it was time to go to bed and they went. Have you tried that?" Or "If you don't do CIO now she will still be sleeping with you when she is 25. The only way kids ever learn how to sleep on their own is when their parents force them to." That last lovely gem was from my own dear sister.







:


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

patty--tell em it could be worse...you could have TWO 17 m.o. girls attached to your boobs all night!







and mine would not sleep when i was doing too much coconut oil. gah!

i haven't washed my face with co, but i was using it as moisturizer until my face got really bad. duh! i have done some of the stupidest things on this diet. but i used to use olive oil to wash my face awhile back. i'll try it. how do you wash your face with honey?

but the girls' behavior/happiness level the past few days has been awesome. and i think they've gained weight. i'll try to get them on the scale tomorrow







. it's taken a while to see results, but i think they're starting.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Mamas, I'm coming back to this thread, to complain once again, I'm sorry, I just feel most connected to you guys









Let's see....my lil' guy, the one w/the sleep apnea and allergic nose and such. Well RAST test came back. No allergies whatsoever, environmental or food. In fact, his total IgE was 0 (or was that IgG--I forget). So his constant nightwaking _seems_ to be structural in nature (I'm hoping not the tonsils or adnoids) so we are off to an ENT to see what the deal is. And probably off to surgery, again, for him. Poor lil' guy had surgery at 6w. At least I'll be able to get his umbilical hernia fixed at the same time. **sigh**

My big guy has been OUT OF FREAKIN' CONTROL. He is acting like he usually does when he is eating something he is allergic to. He is terrorizing our cats, b/c "likes to hurt them" and today at the mall, he shoplifted. I swear to god, this child is going to be the death of me. We had to do the whole riot act in the mall security office, and the cop was like, "well it seems like he must have picked this up somewhere...." implying that my son must have saw me shoplift at some point. Note to self, do not take children w/you during petty theft.







AND we got the results back from his allergy tests.

Back in the day when we got him tested, he barely tested, his levels were 0/1 for corn, peanuts and carrots. We cut it out and he was fantastic. The cat abuse stopped, the incessant jumping on the bed stopped (which is happening now), and his red ring around his anus went away and eczema. Then, of course, he became 'reactive' to something else, and we cut it out, and then something else bothered him and something else, and on and on and on until I had 35-40 foods cut out of my diet and his. Sounds very leaky, no?

Anywho, he tested 0/1 for chocolate, coconut, and egg whites. 1 for honey and rice (and honey bees), and 2 for dogs. So, this is what I'm thinking: he is not getting enough enzymes and the coconut and egg whites and honey (we're not eating chocolate







) are slipping through the holes in the gut causing a reaction and barely measuring as an IgG reaction---does this make sense to anyone else?

And I just ordered the quercetin powder for both boys to start. I'm going to step up the EVCO, probiotics (GoL), and enzymes for my big guy and add the quercetin. We're also going to go back to the beginning w/him and cut out honey and fruits to kill this damn yeast. And we are going to stop nursing while this is going on. Sounds like a plan, no?

Oh, and back to my lil' guy. So I said it _seems_ like a structural issue as he is testing absolutely positively negative, right? Well since it has been 4 yrs since I had a taste of peanut butter, I had some







It was heavenly. We made the PB brownies in the SCD w/the coconut creme concentrate/honey icing recipe (thanks







) and that night, my lil' guy is stuffed up worse than ever, copious white and thick snot. Some of it clear, constantly running. So I didn't take any enzymes before I had some PB, so I'm hoping that it was just PB that snuck through *my* leaky gut and caused a reaction in him. Any thoughts on that one? Oh, and we are going back to cranial sacral b/c it seemed to be working.

I'm doing great actually, except that I'm totally and chronically sleep deprived, but as I've been reading here, it seems like I'm not alone







Oh, and does anyone know why I am unable to sleep when the baby nurses? This makes no sense to me, I was able to pass out w/my older DS, but now I wake totally up and stay awake until he is done nursing







Could this be some kind of deficiency or something? I take magnesium at night, but it doesn't seem to be helping. Last night I was up for a good 3 hrs while I was trying to sleep. Fun, no? Oh, but besides this (and sorry for the novel), I'm feeling great. No digestive stuff, nothing. About to step up on the EVCO for myself---oh, is that rose mtn herbs or whathaveyou a good deal at $25 or $28?? Is it good quality?? AND, I'm going to schedule surgery to get my lumpy bumpy out as the homeopathy has kind of stalled. I'm feeling really good about this.

I think that is it...oh, no, I forgot. My hubby's brother and wife called a lil' while ago, and we have a new nephew







Born in a birth center (was planning a hospital birth, but they have a labor and birth on your back policy and an episiotomy "only when necessary"














policy) at 37w exactly, 6lbs 6oz, a bunch of dark black hair







And he will be kept intact and she is breastfeeding (was planning to FF). So I'm ecstatic for them.

Okay, off to bed









Sorry we are all in the same boat here, here's to healthy days my friends


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Amy, these are symptomatic relief, but have you tried those "Breathe Rite" nasal strips for your son's stuffy nose? (I am assuming he isn't on CPAP). I believe they have a children's size?? Maybe the adult's small would do it. Also, there is a new nasal spray *X-Clear* which I have found to help clear my nasal passages.

I also found that my nasal stuffiness was induced by perfumes in lotions, make up, hair spray, etc. I saw that you mentioned homeopathy, so euclyptus is out. You might try some lavendar on the pillow to help open nasal passages too.

When I can't get back to sleep, we use an aromatherapy called "Peace & Calming". It appears to be available on-line. It really helps to settle the mind and relax me back to sleep. I have also used the Bach flower remedy "White Chestnut" for "when thoughts go round and round in my head" at night.

As far as the red ring around the anus, we always found that associated with dairy. (and with green stools) Not sure that is relevant for you all. We have increase physical activity with High Fructose Corn Syrup, but I am gleeming that this must be taboo around here. Is there a "Healing Your Gut-101" sticky somewhere?

Best wishes, Pat


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

magnesium orally depends on the form and the particular supplement. I had no results orally until finding Natural Vitality. It works better for me than the epsom salt baths...maybe it's just me. It's the same for my kiddos though.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
patty--tell em it could be worse...you could have TWO 17 m.o. girls attached to your boobs all night!







and mine would not sleep when i was doing too much coconut oil. gah!

i haven't washed my face with co, but i was using it as moisturizer until my face got really bad. duh! i have done some of the stupidest things on this diet. but i used to use olive oil to wash my face awhile back. i'll try it. how do you wash your face with honey?

but the girls' behavior/happiness level the past few days has been awesome. and i think they've gained weight. i'll try to get them on the scale tomorrow







. it's taken a while to see results, but i think they're starting.

I just use honey like a face wash. I keep a cup of it near the shower.

That is great that your girls are doing so well!!! I'm trying something new tonight on the theory that dd has restless leg. My father swears by soap in the bed for leg cramps and apparently it works for restless leg syndrome for some people too. We rubbed a bar all over her legs before bed and then put it in her bed near her feet. Here's hoping.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*

And I just ordered the quercetin powder for both boys to start. I'm going to step up the EVCO, probiotics (GoL), and enzymes for my big guy and add the quercetin. We're also going to go back to the beginning w/him and cut out honey and fruits to kill this damn yeast. And we are going to stop nursing while this is going on. Sounds like a plan, no?

Oh, and back to my lil' guy. So I said it _seems_ like a structural issue as he is testing absolutely positively negative, right? Well since it has been 4 yrs since I had a taste of peanut butter, I had some







It was heavenly. We made the PB brownies in the SCD w/the coconut creme concentrate/honey icing recipe (thanks







) and that night, my lil' guy is stuffed up worse than ever, copious white and thick snot. Some of it clear, constantly running. So I didn't take any enzymes before I had some PB, so I'm hoping that it was just PB that snuck through *my* leaky gut and caused a reaction in him. Any thoughts on that one? Oh, and we are going back to cranial sacral b/c it seemed to be working.

I'm doing great actually, except that I'm totally and chronically sleep deprived, but as I've been reading here, it seems like I'm not alone







Oh, and does anyone know why I am unable to sleep when the baby nurses? This makes no sense to me, I was able to pass out w/my older DS, but now I wake totally up and stay awake until he is done nursing







Could this be some kind of deficiency or something? I take magnesium at night, but it doesn't seem to be helping. Last night I was up for a good 3 hrs while I was trying to sleep. Fun, no? Oh, but besides this (and sorry for the novel), I'm feeling great. No digestive stuff, nothing. About to step up on the EVCO for myself---oh, is that rose mtn herbs or whathaveyou a good deal at $25 or $28?? Is it good quality?? AND, I'm going to schedule surgery to get my lumpy bumpy out as the homeopathy has kind of stalled. I'm feeling really good about this.

I'm confused about why you are planning to wean...

I'm thinking about getting cranial sacral for my dd. It has helped me a ton in the past. DH wants to wait and see...

Is nursing uncomfortable? I know my nips sometimes are kinda itchy inside while dd is nursing. I assume that is because of the yeast. I am hopeful that getting rid of the yeast will clear that up too. When it itches I have trouble sleeping. And when dd is kicking me and moving from side to side to side...


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Amy-is it possible you need a new remedy? When you stall it can indicate the need for re-evaluation. Hope things are going well for you in that respect. I would do the CST no question! I love it-especially used with homeopathy-do your kids have remedies? Why are you weaning to do this? They are only going to benefit getting all of these supplements through your BM!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I wash my face with coconut oil daily, though have never left it on as a moisturizer. I have done really well using it with tamanu oil-not sure if I'd be brave enough to leave it on though!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Thanks for the ideas and support mamas









Sorry for the confusion, but we are just going to temporarily wean so that my older guy doesn't get the lactose from my breastmilk while we are trying to kill his yeast. Am I thinking this through wrong?

I've been a tad frustrated (to put it mildly) w/my homeopath. He is impossible to reach and only works, tues, wed and thurs. He is best reached through e-mail and hasn't been responding regularly. I just called into the surgeon and am waiting for her to call back so we can set up a time. We have had no luck finding my older son's constitutional. I don't really think my homeopath 'gets' what is going on w/his behavior (the reactions). He asked me the other day how he was doing w/the cat abuse, and I said, well, as long as he is not eating soy or gluten he is fine. I just don't think he gets it. FF, aren't you in New England? I know you love your homeopath.

Oh, we're going to buy some breathe rite strips tonight. I looked them up a while back and the smallest I saw was small adult, but I'm totally going to try them anyway.

And, yes, nursing is wicked uncomfortable, but not due to itchiness (which screams yeast), but it just feels wrong somehow. He was 4 in Feb, & since having #2, his latch, his mouth & even his suck is just wrong. It sucks as I can't wait for him to wean, but I know he is definately not ready to do so---hoping by 5, but not seeming likely.

Pattyla, how did the soap work out??


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

It's a little OT, but I would be interested how much Quercetin to take?
I have an Ester C (1000mg) with Quercetin (200mg) and I take it 2 times day. Is that enough? (to help with die-off)


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Another question, one of my nipples is also mildly itchy sometimes when baby is nursing, is that a sign of thrush? I don't see any rash or anything. But I think I have systemic candida.
How do you intentify thrush in baby's mouth? She doesn't have cottage cheese stuff but her tongue is a little whitish, can it be from just breastmilk?
How do you treat it on the nipple and mouth? Will CO work?


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
It's a little OT, but I would be interested how much Quercetin to take?
I have an Ester C (1000mg) with Quercetin (200mg) and I take it 2 times day. Is that enough? (to help with die-off)

Thanks for asking this, I forgot to ask myself







I have a 4 yr old and a 17m old any ideas for dosage of the powder??

And totally, OT, it seems like we have a lot of 17m olds here


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

AmyD, I just wanted to give you some virtual hugs...you're going through so much right now.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

EBG -- yes, itching can be thrush. Shooting pains in your breast while nursing is a sign of systemic yeast.

In baby, the white spots are the most noticable sign. One common sign that people don't associate as much: baby latches and takes one or two sucks, then pulls off and screams.

There should be legions of threads on this issue in the BFing forum.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Does anyone know if CO can cause digestive trouble in a BF baby if the mom takes too much of it to start with? I had maybe 2 tsp. of it yesterday, PLUS a ton of cookies made with CO as the fat, and my baby had a horrible time in the beginning of the night. I had a sore stomach and almost felt nauseated as well. Do you think my son felt that way from getting the CO through my BM?

I'm going to avoid the CO totally today and see what happens tonight. I've already cut down to one enzyme tablet.

It was so bad I was ALMOST thinking about letting him CIO...but I just don't think I could ever let him do that. The thought of him feeling like I did AND being abandoned... Sigh.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
EBG -- yes, itching can be thrush. Shooting pains in your breast while nursing is a sign of systemic yeast.

In baby, the white spots are the most noticable sign. One common sign that people don't associate as much: baby latches and takes one or two sucks, then pulls off and screams.

There should be legions of threads on this issue in the BFing forum.

Thanks! She doesn't do this and she has no white spots or patches, it's just an overall white coating.BF-ing is not painful at all.
I didn't have nipple itching before I started the diet, can it be from die-off? I'll check out the BF threads.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

A white coating towards the back of the tongue is normal in a bf babe. It's when it creeps up and covers the tongue that it is a real problem. The scratching can be die off-or an indication that the yeast is getting worse.

Amy-I am in NE and drive more than 2 hours to see him (and I'm doing it again tomorrow!)


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## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

AmyD, I don't know that weaning is the best idea. I would be concerned that he would feel lots of rejection in addition to all of the changes from doing the SCD.







I really hope that your ND gets his act together or that you can find a new one. I feel sad for your ds too








NewMama, I also had a really really rough night with DD (16 mos) after having a high CO night. Maybe it is related, I just think that we have to go forward, yk?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Is everyone doing the sleep issue/immune system homework that MT posted in the Nutrition/Immunology 101 thread?

I still haven't gotten to it


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Does anyone know if CO can cause digestive trouble in a BF baby if the mom takes too much of it to start with? I had maybe 2 tsp. of it yesterday, PLUS a ton of cookies made with CO as the fat, and my baby had a horrible time in the beginning of the night. I had a sore stomach and almost felt nauseated as well. Do you think my son felt that way from getting the CO through my BM?

I'm going to avoid the CO totally today and see what happens tonight. I've already cut down to one enzyme tablet.

It was so bad I was ALMOST thinking about letting him CIO...but I just don't think I could ever let him do that. The thought of him feeling like I did AND being abandoned... Sigh.

Yes, maybe but other flour, sugar cookie ingredients would have done all this for me and DS too.

I think cutting it and enzymes out and then starting slowly after a couple days would be your best bet.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
It's a little OT, but I would be interested how much Quercetin to take?
I have an Ester C (1000mg) with Quercetin (200mg) and I take it 2 times day. Is that enough? (to help with die-off)

Ester C is not a good form of vitamin C, it's been warned against. See "Sodium Ascorbate" thread around here somewhere.

Dosage for my DS for quercitin from ND was a lot: 250/mg once a day to start then twice a day.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Mamas, I'm coming back to this thread, to complain once again, I'm sorry, I just feel most connected to you guys









Let's see....my lil' guy, the one w/the sleep apnea and allergic nose and such. Well RAST test came back. No allergies whatsoever, environmental or food. In fact, his total IgE was 0 (or was that IgG--I forget). So his constant nightwaking _seems_ to be structural in nature (I'm hoping not the tonsils or adnoids) so we are off to an ENT to see what the deal is. And probably off to surgery, again, for him. Poor lil' guy had surgery at 6w. At least I'll be able to get his umbilical hernia fixed at the same time. **sigh**

My big guy has been OUT OF FREAKIN' CONTROL. He is acting like he usually does when he is eating something he is allergic to. He is terrorizing our cats, b/c "likes to hurt them" and today at the mall, he shoplifted. I swear to god, this child is going to be the death of me. We had to do the whole riot act in the mall security office, and the cop was like, "well it seems like he must have picked this up somewhere...." implying that my son must have saw me shoplift at some point. Note to self, do not take children w/you during petty theft.







AND we got the results back from his allergy tests.

Back in the day when we got him tested, he barely tested, his levels were 0/1 for corn, peanuts and carrots. We cut it out and he was fantastic. The cat abuse stopped, the incessant jumping on the bed stopped (which is happening now), and his red ring around his anus went away and eczema. Then, of course, he became 'reactive' to something else, and we cut it out, and then something else bothered him and something else, and on and on and on until I had 35-40 foods cut out of my diet and his. Sounds very leaky, no?

Anywho, he tested 0/1 for chocolate, coconut, and egg whites. 1 for honey and rice (and honey bees), and 2 for dogs. So, this is what I'm thinking: he is not getting enough enzymes and the coconut and egg whites and honey (we're not eating chocolate







) are slipping through the holes in the gut causing a reaction and barely measuring as an IgG reaction---does this make sense to anyone else?

And I just ordered the quercetin powder for both boys to start. I'm going to step up the EVCO, probiotics (GoL), and enzymes for my big guy and add the quercetin. We're also going to go back to the beginning w/him and cut out honey and fruits to kill this damn yeast. And we are going to stop nursing while this is going on. Sounds like a plan, no?

Oh, and back to my lil' guy. So I said it _seems_ like a structural issue as he is testing absolutely positively negative, right? Well since it has been 4 yrs since I had a taste of peanut butter, I had some







It was heavenly. We made the PB brownies in the SCD w/the coconut creme concentrate/honey icing recipe (thanks







) and that night, my lil' guy is stuffed up worse than ever, copious white and thick snot. Some of it clear, constantly running. So I didn't take any enzymes before I had some PB, so I'm hoping that it was just PB that snuck through *my* leaky gut and caused a reaction in him. Any thoughts on that one? Oh, and we are going back to cranial sacral b/c it seemed to be working.

I'm doing great actually, except that I'm totally and chronically sleep deprived, but as I've been reading here, it seems like I'm not alone







Oh, and does anyone know why I am unable to sleep when the baby nurses? This makes no sense to me, I was able to pass out w/my older DS, but now I wake totally up and stay awake until he is done nursing







Could this be some kind of deficiency or something? I take magnesium at night, but it doesn't seem to be helping. Last night I was up for a good 3 hrs while I was trying to sleep. Fun, no? Oh, but besides this (and sorry for the novel), I'm feeling great. No digestive stuff, nothing. About to step up on the EVCO for myself---oh, is that rose mtn herbs or whathaveyou a good deal at $25 or $28?? Is it good quality?? AND, I'm going to schedule surgery to get my lumpy bumpy out as the homeopathy has kind of stalled. I'm feeling really good about this.

Please feel free to vent here!
(That goes for everyone else too.)
It's a big long thread but too bad, we all need to belong somewhere.









Does your little one have a deviated septum that could be blocking his passages? (which by the way I just read in WAPF newsletter was vitamin A deficiency related too, I know you think I'm nuts but I think this stuff is fascinating.)

I know less than nothing about allergies so just offer sympathy.

All the behavioral issues you are seeing in older DS can indeed be related to gut health. I personally know this only too well for myself and DS. Have you tried enzymes between meals? What enzymes are you using? Do you know for sure it's yeast and not bacterial? (sorry, I forget who has what)

For us fruits are always more of a problem than honey, b/c the fructose and the cell walls of the fruit.

For me insomnia was gut related too. What kind of mag. are you taking and how much? Maybe you need more. How much CLO are you taking? That is excellent for central nervous system as well.

Try a sprinkle of vitamin C with every meal for the little one too.

Congrats on the nephew! And be sure to post back after ENT visit. Let us know when surgery day is.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Mehera!

ARGH that sounds awful. I'm not sure what to say, it's so frustrating to have to backtrack isn't it. Maybe certain nuts don't at all agree with you. How are you feeling today?


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Amy, I know that this is OT, but the trust relationship with the homeopath is critical, imo. It is precisely the attention to detail and attunement to the significance of issues in your and your son's lives which makes proper proscribing possible. We are all on classical homeopathy and it is due to our ability to openly discuss and be listened to that helps us to be on the right remedies. The remedy does change and become more specific to the underlying issues as we have had an on-going relationship over 2.5 years with her.

I would voice my concerns to the homeopath, or perhaps consider a new homeopath. We love ours.







I believe strongly in the benefits of classical homeopathy, especially with all that you sound like you are experiencing.

Ds might try some rescue remedy or elm if ds needs something during any weaning hiatus. Or, for you if you contine to nurse uncomfortably. Personally, I'd follow his lead about whether he is ready to wean, with all the stressors in your lives at this point. Avoiding the soy and gluten sounds hard enough, without the comfort of nursing (for him). Have you discussed your discomfort with ds's latch with the homeopath? Often, these types of physical sensory issues are HUGE variables in remedy selection. Same with any oral changes or increase nursing needs of ds's.

I couldn't find the Nutrition/Immunology 101. Could someone point me in that direction? Is it in Health and Healing? I didn't see it. Maybe post a link????

Best wishes, Pat


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Help!

I made a new pot of chicken soup yesterday and added mushrooms to it (yesterday was day 4 of the intro diet). The day before I changed the grape juice to white and added cider (had only had grape before).

Last night DS would NOT stay asleep, kept waking to nurse and then at 4 am woke up to play! He usually nurses a few times a night and wakes around 9.

What happened? Was it the mushrooms? Was it that I ran out of my magnesium the day before? Could it have REALLY been the mushrooms?

I'm also thinking to see the cranial sacral doc, and...should I find a naturopath, or just keep chugging along on my own? I don't want to pay OOP unless it's really worth it, but I would like to figure out what he might be sensitive to so I can eliminate it.

He's 9 months old and has excema behind his ear. I've been adhering to the intro diet but feeding him a bit of fruit - is that dumb of me? He loves the yogurt and the gelatin, should I be having him stick to the SCD as well?

Help! Every step brings more questions!


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*

I couldn't find the Nutrition/Immunology 101. Could someone point me in that direction? Is it in Health and Healing? I didn't see it. Maybe post a link????

Best wishes, Pat

It's in the vaccines forum, it's a sticky.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
What happened? Was it the mushrooms? Was it that I ran out of my magnesium the day before? Could it have REALLY been the mushrooms?

I am _completely_ not qualified to give the in-dept advice that you'll probably get from the other ladies. However, I will add that my paternal grandmother absolutely could not eat mushrooms because they gave her such horrendous gas (I know, I know, TMI. Imagine how I felt when she told me







) Anyway, it was the first time I had ever really look at mushrooms as possibly being rough on digestion. But mushrooms are a stage 2 SCD, aren't they? If you just came off Intro, it might be a good idea to backtrack to intro for a day or so, or at least go back to stage 1?


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Amy -- I would not wean him just to keep him from having the lactose. You don't know how it will affect the nursing and nursing is a really important strategy for these little guys. It seems harder to fix them sometimes than us and if you are working on your own nutrition, you will be providing him with increasing amounts of nutrients. You know all of that. You could be jeopardizing it and, frankly, lactose isn't the problem. I know that it feeds yeast, but until the various nutritional problems are fixed, cutting lactose might be, at best, a yeast management strategy. And in terms of fixing all of those nutrient and other issues, I know it's like a big game of "pin the tail on the donkey," but throughout that crazy game, the breastmilk will help.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
I am _completely_ not qualified to give the in-dept advice that you'll probably get from the other ladies. However, I will add that my paternal grandmother absolutely could not eat mushrooms because they gave her such horrendous gas (I know, I know, TMI. Imagine how I felt when she told me







) Anyway, it was the first time I had ever really look at mushrooms as possibly being rough on digestion. But mushrooms are a stage 2 SCD, aren't they? If you just came off Intro, it might be a good idea to backtrack to intro for a day or so, or at least go back to stage 1?

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking there. They just looked like a good idea - I've been so fanatical, I have no idea what possessed me.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I'll join the "babies who won't sleep" club...DD has never been a great napper, and her normal "routine" consists of 4-6 20-30 minute naps per day. Which is NOT my ideal nap schedule, but I can usually handle it...except on the days when she decides that even though she is tired and crabby she is not going to take a nap, and she doesn't want to nurse, either...so I spend 30 minutes or more fighting her down for how ever many naps a day she decides she doesn't want to nap. Today it's been one nap (so far), but there've been a few days when EVERY SINGLE nap is a battle and I am about ready to pull my hair out by the end of the day. I really think she just wants to be walked around the house until she falls asleep, but I am not going to get into the habit of spending 20-30 minutes or more walking a 15 lb baby around the house every time she needs a nap. (Before anyone suggests it, I keep my baby-wearing to a minimum because of long-standing back/neck issues.) I used to think I had a lot of patience, but apparently my patience doesn't extend to tired cranky babies...sometimes I am a mean mommy









At least she does sleep well at night...I have no idea how you mamas with poor night-time sleepers do it! I ended up putting DD in her own room at 3 months after she started waking up 3-5 times a night for no apparent reason--sometimes she would nurse, sometimes she wouldn't even latch on (this was a baby who had woken up once a night since birth). I finally put her in her own room after the lack of sleep (I'm another of those who can't sleep while the baby's nursing) and frustration over lack of sleep started affecting my daytime parenting, and ever since DD's only woken up once at night.

I did a day of the Intro diet yesterday, and also started the super-strong probiotics I got. I decided to add all the fruits and veggies I'd added before after that, but to try to hold off on the nuts for a few days at least. Today I had a major upset stomach in spite of using pascalite clay and epsom salts to try to minimize die-off, so hopefully that's a good sign (maybe the half gallon of beef broth I had yesterday accomplished something!). How can you tell, though, if symptoms are die-off or a reaction to adding a food too early? I've only eaten avocados and applesauce so far today besides the intro diet foods.

firefaery--how much pascalite clay were you taking? Is it okay to take it in capsules? I've been mixing it with water, but it would be much simpler to put it in capsules now that I have a handy dandy capsule filler









And how much l-glutamine should I take?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Thanks for the ideas and support mamas









Sorry for the confusion, but we are just going to temporarily wean so that my older guy doesn't get the lactose from my breastmilk while we are trying to kill his yeast. Am I thinking this through wrong?

Pattyla, how did the soap work out??

I wouldn't wean over lactose. There is just too much good stuff in your bm that helps with healing. If you really want to get an enzyme into him that works on lactose.

Sleep was better last night than the few nights before. Not sure if it was because of the soap or what. I need more soap though! I rubbed her legs down with it and she seemed to really relax quickly for bed and we got her to sleep pretty quick and easy (for her about 1 hour of nursing/walking/rocking). She slept till 1 am (about 3.5 hours of sleep) but then I brought her to our bed (her bed is up against our bed, soap was in there). Not sure what to do tonight.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Does anyone know if CO can cause digestive trouble in a BF baby if the mom takes too much of it to start with? I had maybe 2 tsp. of it yesterday, PLUS a ton of cookies made with CO as the fat, and my baby had a horrible time in the beginning of the night. I had a sore stomach and almost felt nauseated as well. Do you think my son felt that way from getting the CO through my BM?

I'm going to avoid the CO totally today and see what happens tonight. I've already cut down to one enzyme tablet.

It was so bad I was ALMOST thinking about letting him CIO...but I just don't think I could ever let him do that. The thought of him feeling like I did AND being abandoned... Sigh.

That sounds like my CO reaction. The nausea. I'm sure that if I were a baby with an upset stomach I wouldn't be able to sleep either. I have found that I am aclimating to it quickly and already can handle a lot more of it than I could at first. (of course that was how it went with the enzymes and now I have had to go back to square one with them again)


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

so when you mamas have die-off, what types of symptoms do you have?

i've had swollen lymph nodes in my throat for a few days (along with intestinal complaints), following an indulgence in too much coconut milk (a recurring craving). i get that the intestinal issues would be tied to my indulgence. just wondering if the swollen lymph nodes are related to the same thing.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I'll join the "babies who won't sleep" club...

Dang, is this why Frederick never napped as a baby? I was robbed. Robbed.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I'm sure pascalite would be fine in a capsule....I always do it in water but I don't have a fancy capsule filler







I take 3 tsp of L glutamine twice a day. Kiddos get 1 tsp once a day. It *can* make kids kinda hyper...I learned the hard way!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I've been thinking over the past couple of months and what I have learned. I want to tell the newer members of this list (not that I consider myself old at all) to chill out about every reaction and trust the process. I fall into the trap of over analizing every poop, every nights sleep, every food eaten to constantly try to tweak this and make it better but sometimes it is just about giving the body time to heal. We don't expect a broken arm to stop hurting once it is set. We can't expect a damaged gut to stop bleeding/hurting/leaking just because we have eliminated the damaging foods. It still needs to recover and heal and healing may not look like what we expect it too look like.

I'm not saying to stop learning and stop improving, just give yourself a break and look at the big picture instead of the bumps in the road.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I'm sure pascalite would be fine in a capsule....I always do it in water but I don't have a fancy capsule filler







I take 3 tsp of L glutamine twice a day. Kiddos get 1 tsp once a day. It *can* make kids kinda hyper...I learned the hard way!

Is 1/4 tsp of pascalite 2x a day enough? And how many grams of l glutamine are there per tsp? (I have 1.8 grams capsules.)


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

my ND and i chatted on the phone and he gave me the thumbs up to try reintroducing dairy by starting with kefir (just for me, not ds), "which isn't really dairy - it's cultured dairy". i was just wondering what i was gonna do with all that kefir in my fridge - my stubborn dh just won't convert to it. he also recommended some biodynamic sauerkraut - not the cooked kind, the raw kind. i think he thought it odd when i said that i was making my own kefir.

[the ND sorta lives off the grid, so he usually recommends whatever the local food coop carries. the only reason he has a phone or an email address is because he realized that he needed one to keep in touch with his patients.]


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Yes on the pascalite, and the L glutamine is 800 mg per gram. I use the L-glutamine powder by Pharmax-love that company! That and DFH are my two favorites.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Thanks mamas







My 4 yr old will be pleased that the nanas haven't been cut off. I'll just eliminate fruit & honey and really step up the enzymes and probiotics. In terms of yeast v. bacteria--I'm really not sure. My gut (hehe) is telling me yeast, but I have been wrong in the past (for one, I predicted that both my boys were girls in utero







) What test should I ask from my dr--he's right on board.

And I am very angry w/my homeopath, and I also drive 2 hrs to see mine.







I'm in Vermont, FF, whereabouts is your homeopath? And I'm not feeling very respected right now w/him and I frankly don't want to put so much energy into "our relationship" v. "my health", iykwim. What sucks is that he takes insurance, so we never have to pay out of pocket. Sigh.

Oh, whoever has the baby that takes those lil' dinky naps, that was my older son, to a T. Same thing. He would be wicked tired, but couldn't sleep, so I would put him in the sling, walk to the park and swing on the swing until he fell asleep, walk home, and lie down for 20 min before he would wake up and then I would take another walk in another hr or so--5-6x/day. I've so BTDT and it is hard.







to you mama

I had too much CO today too (I wanted to belong to your overdose club







) and I suffered from a wicked headache and some nausea. Fun, fun, fun









Jane, I for one, will never ever ever bore of the research you are doing.







: I LOVE IT.







After being vegetarian and vegan for 10 yrs, it would not surprise me if this is a Vit A deficiency. So interesting. And so glad that healthy veg diet worked out for me









Its funny, all of a sudden everyone keeps throwing around "deviated septum" so we'll see if that is what we have going on. Although, from what I just read, they don't usually do surgery on minors b/c the septum keeps changing?? Oh, and he has a breathe right nasal strip on, but I didn't think I put it on too well as it is freakin' huge, so not sure if it will make a difference or no.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Can you help me out? I am floundering and not sure what to do next. I have found some improvement since cutting out grains and sugar and adding in some probiotics, but I feel that I need to take things up a notch, but am not sure what the best thing is.

And I am a bit confused with all the different options! BTVC, EFLF, NT







I am fairly certain that I do not have yeast, but maybe bacteria.

So far I have started taking CLO, CO, kefir and some yogurt. I did get some enzymes, but am not sure how to take them while taking probiotics, as I remember reading somewhere that you shouldn't take them together. Oh, and I am taking liquid chlorophyll upon recommendation from the last Mothering for ileocecal valve syndrome, which I still wonder if it could be what I have.

Symtoms? Constipation seems to be MUCH better, some gas, but huge bloating after eating. Also I can feel tender spots along my colon, specifically where the ileocecal valve is, among other places.

Any direction most appreciated.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Thanks mamas







My 4 yr old will be pleased that the nanas haven't been cut off. I'll just eliminate fruit & honey and really step up the enzymes and probiotics. In terms of yeast v. bacteria--I'm really not sure. My gut (hehe) is telling me yeast, but I have been wrong in the past (for one, I predicted that both my boys were girls in utero







) What test should I ask from my dr--he's right on board.

Oh, whoever has the baby that takes those lil' dinky naps, that was my older son, to a T.

Jane, I for one, will never ever ever bore of the research you are doing.







: I LOVE IT.







After being vegetarian and vegan for 10 yrs, it would not surprise me if this is a Vit A deficiency. So interesting. And so glad that healthy veg diet worked out for me









Its funny, all of a sudden everyone keeps throwing around "deviated septum" so we'll see if that is what we have going on. Although, from what I just read, they don't usually do surgery on minors b/c the septum keeps changing?? Oh, and he has a breathe right nasal strip on, but I didn't think I put it on too well as it is freakin' huge, so not sure if it will make a difference or no.

Yeah, my DS took 45 min. naps only from birth til age 2. It was HELL. I've never ever been able to transfer him asleep like from carseat to bed. The money I've wasted driving around while he was napping! He was (and still pretty much is) constantly tired. It's truly a wonder he's such a lovely boy most of the time (if he's kept occupied).

See testing info in Cheat Sheet thread.

RE: Research and deviated septums

I'm thrilled I get to blab on and on about my obsessions and someone actually likes it!









The cool thing is that with kids... if they get enough minerals and vitamins A & D their noses and facial structures widen as they grow. This effects their teeth too. Because crooked crowded teeth is caused by this same nutritional issue. The jaw/palate is not wide enough to accomodate them all and its not genetic.

Nose bumps same issue as deviated septums: caused by too narrow facial bone structure. The skin has grown to it's genetic blueprint (larger). You can see the extra cartilage of the septum if you look up their nostrils sometimes.

The article entitled "The Tragic Consequences of Compromised Facial Development" is in the Fall 05/Winter 06 issue of Wise Traditions the WAPF newsletter if you want to get it (they only post on website when back issues sell out).

More on wide faces and nutrition here, my favorite link of all time:
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Amy -- I would not wean him just to keep him from having the lactose. You don't know how it will affect the nursing and nursing is a really important strategy for these little guys. It seems harder to fix them sometimes than us and if you are working on your own nutrition, you will be providing him with increasing amounts of nutrients. You know all of that. You could be jeopardizing it and, frankly, lactose isn't the problem. I know that it feeds yeast, but until the various nutritional problems are fixed, cutting lactose might be, at best, a yeast management strategy. And in terms of fixing all of those nutrient and other issues, I know it's like a big game of "pin the tail on the donkey," but throughout that crazy game, the breastmilk will help.

I also thought I heard somewhere the lactose in bm was a "special kind" that boosted probiotics?


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

I'm on Day 9 of SCD and, don't jinx me







: , I haven't experienced any new acne or acne pain on my face since Sunday night - totally unprecedented! The scars and discolorations are rampant and pronounced, but I'm praying every second that this is moving forward!!!! I took my first dose of liquid CLO this morning (WHOA, wasn't prepared for that nastiness), and it turns out that I didn't take enough, so I'm going to be upping it to the recommended 90,000 A/9,000 D as of tomorrow. Coconut oil is set to arrive later this weekend, and as of right now I'm grain, dairy, dried bean and fake sugar free. I'm going to introduce butter tomorrow, and 24 hour goats yogurt next week, as long as I continue to improve (gonna wait a couple of months on beans, even at this rate). I'm seriously in disbelief, and keep thinking that any moment I'm going to start feeling it again.......

It got me wondering if someone could point me to some resources on what Vitamins and Minerals I may be missing out on from not doing any grains - I'm strongly suspecting that this is the culprit and I'm in for a long-haul grain-free diet







Wish I had had pizza one last time.....


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
It got me wondering if someone could point me to some resources on what Vitamins and Minerals I may be missing out on from not doing any grains - I'm strongly suspecting that this is the culprit and I'm in for a long-haul grain-free diet







Wish I had had pizza one last time.....









That's excellent progress!







And I suspect that I need to know the above too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
It got me wondering if someone could point me to some resources on what Vitamins and Minerals I may be missing out on from not doing any grains - I'm strongly suspecting that this is the culprit and I'm in for a long-haul grain-free diet







Wish I had had pizza one last time.....









Shanna that's awesome!!

Maybe magnesium, but bone broths also contain it. However, I was never organized enough to do broths for myself everyday, concentrating more on DS, so I like taking a mag. supplement. Natural Calm that FF sugggested is the *best*. Take at night so your muscles relax. The body uses more mag. at night. Is www.papanature.com still offering $10 off for new customers?


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

So my dd is getting her eye teeth in and boy has the last 2 weeks been crazy. She never gets diarrhea or the green poops from teething, which everyone says they get. She's been so cranky and nursing non-stop (which at first I thought was because I started the intro again, but then realized her teeth). Well today I noticed her tonsils are huge. Can teething do this? Is there anything I can give her? Anybody with any wisdom?


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

This is going to seem like a weird place to post this but I actually feel like it's the most appropriate. I posted it on my blog so I'm just recopying the whole thing if that's okay:

I'm freaking out right now. I cannot believe what just happened, and as the minutes pass and it gets farther away, I am left feeling even more shaken up than when it was happening.

We make our own yogurt. Here is how it's made: we cook the milk to a certain temperature and then let it cool to a certain temperature. When it is cooled, we add the starter to it and pour it into a 2-quart jar. We then wrap the jar with a towel and put it in the oven with the light on and the oven off. The light heats it up just enough to let those microorganisms procreate like mad. We then leave it for 24 hours in the oven, to let all of the lactose be eaten away and the probiotic goodness proliferate.

As part of my SCD intro diet, I eat one or two broiled ground meat patties each day (usually buffalo and turkey but that's irrelevant to the story).

Scene: We put the yogurt in the oven last night to proliferate. IT's still in there, happily growing away. It's about lunchtime. I take some ground meat out of the fridge. I turn on the broiler. I turn away to get something else and I smell fire.

'We don't have a gas oven,' I think to myself, turning toward the oven. 'Why do I smell fire?'

Would anyone like to venture a guess as to what happened? It's not like you can't see this coming. THE TOWELS CAUGHT FIRE. Because the yogurt WAS STILL IN THE OVEN.And I apparently DON'T HAVE TWO BRAIN CELLS TO RUB TOGETHER.

At first I just stared at it, horrified. I said out loud, 'Ohmygodohmygod, I don't know what to do,' but my body had other ideas.

First, I turned off the broiler (duh).

Then I moved Kiernen and his exersaucer out of the kitchen. Then I noticed on the counter there were some jars with water soaking in them (form milk and yogurt), so I grabbed one, opened the oven and threw it on the burning towel. It put most of it out but there was still burning, so I did it again with the second jar. I think it took three times, but I put it out. And then of course I had an oven full of liquid and two scorched towels (the second towel charred but didn't catch fire). I put on oven mitts and took the jars out of the oven (must save the yogurt!) and unwrapped the towels.

The jars felt warm but not hot so I'm really hoping that I didn't kill the yogurt.

Next I took the less burned towel and used it to sop up most of the water on the floor and in the oven (mess!). Then they both got thrown out into the garage to go out to the trash later. We also have a storage drawer under he oven (for pots and pans) where a good deal of the mucky water leaked so now I'll be washing all of our pots, pans and baking sheets.

I opened the back sliding door (much to the cats' delight) and the windows to air everything out but the kitchen near the oven still smells like fire. I'll need to do more cleaning there when MBD gets home.

I cannot even tell you how frustrated with myself I am that this happened. You'll think I'm being hard on myself but it isn't just this one incident. I have zero short term memory lately and it's scaring the hell out of me. Usually it's just my intellect that suffers and my ego that gets bruised but this time I endangered myself and my son. That really scares me.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

When did everyone start adding Stage 3 fruits/veggies?

For some reason I never considered that DD's naptime issues could be related to the whole gut thing. Even though it seems like everyone here has kids with sleep issues, since she sleeps fine at night, I never thought about it. I knew she didn't sleep like everyone else's babies seemed to (was awake a lot even as a newborn, couldn't move her around while she was sleeping, etc) I hope when we heal she will start napping better, too! And it gives me hope for my future babies, too--hopefully my gut will be fixed and they will take nice normal naps.

chasmyn--eek! I'm glad you caught it before any more damage was done. If it helps any, you're not the only one who is spacey at times--one time I left the water running in the kitchen sink for like 10 minutes because I turned it on for some reason and somehow managed to forget it was on 2 seconds later (DH asked me why the water was running and I realized it had been running for a long time!). I've also turned the oven on (more than once) with a pan with a towel on it in the oven (left over from my sprouting grains--I put the pan in the oven to get it out of the way), and left stuff on the stove till they were burned to a crisp (in spite of being 10 feet away from the stove the whole time). Are you getting enough to eat? I know if I am not eating enough or it has been too long since I ate I cannot think at all. I've also had problems both times I've done the intro diet with spacie-ness--just from lack of carbs, I think. Anyhow, you are not alone


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

How scary!! And how brave of you to save the yogurt







(I would have done the same thing). And like caedmyn, I have left the water on in the sink, full blast, for some time too. I just forget that I put it on (I sound like my mother...)

Speaking of mothers, Jane that was so awesome what you posted about the Vit A&D and how it can help the face grow!! Very interesting, b/c I just realized that *my* mother was a vegetarian before she was pregnant w/me and for most of the pregnancy. AND while I have my wisdom teeth (and healthy too), I had to have my first 4 molars taken out as "there wasn't enough room" in my mouth--think retainers and braces, etc, etc.

Is this the test you are speaking of Jane for yeast v. bacteria? http://www.gdx.net/home/education/da...documents.html

Oh and how many of those Nordic Natural strawberry balls should my kiddos be eating? The bottle says 4, and for 3 yrs & up. So how many should my 17m old and 4 yr old get? And what is the blue ice thing? I totally missed that, is that what everyone is taking for CLO--I worry that I'm not taking enough.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

chasmyn (((hugs)))) to you, that must have been so scary! I know you're mad at yourself, as anyone would be. Also, you must be grateful that you caught it when you did.

On the topic of the oven method:
I have reverted to using the heating pad method with a 3 quart pot myself, just because I could never get the temperature to be stable in my oven. It doesn't have its own light, and the shop light that I bought to go in it isn't warm enough. Adding a heating pad makes it too hot, so I haven't messed with it. Theboutn there's the whole not being able to use the oven, which in your case was quite bad. In my case, I moved the yogurt to a cooler with the heating pad in it, which I wasn't crazy about just because I didn't like the idea of heating plastic! Oh, and how do you check the temp regularly with jars with lids on them? I use foil on the pot I use, but wouldn't do that with the jars, since there is much less clearance (unless I filled them only 3/4 full or something).


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

*What is everyone doing for Mother's Day to acknowledge the commitment they've made to their family's health?*

I have no plans but it seems like I should.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

wow! so much going on here!

patty--thanks for posting this:

Quote:

I've been thinking over the past couple of months and what I have learned. I want to tell the newer members of this list (not that I consider myself old at all) to chill out about every reaction and trust the process. I fall into the trap of over analizing every poop, every nights sleep, every food eaten to constantly try to tweak this and make it better but sometimes it is just about giving the body time to heal. We don't expect a broken arm to stop hurting once it is set. We can't expect a damaged gut to stop bleeding/hurting/leaking just because we have eliminated the damaging foods. It still needs to recover and heal and healing may not look like what we expect it too look like.

I'm not saying to stop learning and stop improving, just give yourself a break and look at the big picture instead of the bumps in the road.
the girls reacted to too much nuts, so i'm trying to just give them less (seems ok in smaller doses) rather than freak and say, "how am i going to get thru this without nuts?" moderation.

and appreciating the changes--no screeches from dda for the longest time, and no arm flapping from ddb. how cool is that?

chasmyn--: hug--sorry you went thru that. does this diet affect our brains, or is it just that we're not used to USING our kitchens so much? i have burned two pots in the past two weeks. the first was an aluminum anodized thing i wanted to get rid of anyway, but the second was a nice (marshall's) enamel coated pot. sad sad sad. i'd only burned one pot previously in my life! (and that was three months ago when i started NT--and i thought ?THAT was a restricted diet!)

i took too much co tonight, but i'm recovering faster than i did before. my face is better since i stopped taking so much. but where can i read about why i feel the way i do when i take too much? was it in eflf? i lost my copy and i'm so mad! i really want to know what exactly is being killed in my body--i hope i'm not replacing it with something!

gale force--for mom's day i might be putting dh on the diet! i really don't know what's in store. i think i'll try to get enough food cooked ahead so i can completely take the day off.

and i also have to find a more efficient yogurt laking method. i'm making cream for the first time, but in making it i realized i've been using too little yogourmet. sigh. at least i've ony made one or two batches iwth the stuff. i just took the lid off to check the temp--but i was using the oven, so i only did it once, and i did it at the end of the fermentation.

i just posted on the scd chefs page, but i need a recipe for an early in the scd for chicken reserved from stock. i made the meatloaf in btvc--not much flavor. anybody improved on it? i don't know how much salt to add even.

jane--that is fascinating about the face continuing to grow! i'm so glad, because i watch and worry over the girls' teeth all the time, thinking i must have done some damage to them in utero. we can heal it! i'm sneaking them activator x, but i can't always get the clo in one.......


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

my last post was so long, but i just wanted to add that i said to dh the other night that if you had told me two months ago that i'd be putting something called activator X onto a muffin made with zucchini and pecans and enjoying it, i'd have said you were on crack.

heehee.

rock on healin' mamas!


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Oh Chasym, I feel for ya. I've never had the fire mind you, but just the other day I did the same thing.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

oh, 2 things i meant to add. i don't know if odwalla is legal--i wouldn't trust it bc they're owned by cocacola. (no offense--i just hate cocacola







).

where do you get pascalite? should i take that? can someone explain why it would make it possible for me to take more co and possibly enzymes if i took the clay?

also--i swear i'm not eating enough but i'm not losing weight like it seems i normally would if i ate this little. what do you think that means? and it's not hidden calories from nuts bc i hardly have anything with them. in fact, how do you have nut butter if you can't have raw food yet? twice i've just had a spoonful of peanut or almond butter with honey. amazing how that satisfied, but there's got to be a better way, right?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Chasmyn- I have done that so many times! thankfully never with a towel in there but still. My memory is shot. I think it is (currently) lack of sleep and die off. I also have ruined more than one pot.







I learned a trick from someone. For cooking fruit just put it into the oven with a little water and bake it at 300 or so for an hour or two. Cooks it nicely and doesn't burn it.

I can't live w/o my oven for 24 hours so I haven't ever attempted the oven yougart method. I did learn recently that the heating pad method may not work forever. I already killed one heating pad... I also have a 1 qt yogurt maker I got on amazon for like $18. I'm thinking about getting 1-2 more and just using those. I can fit a 1 qt canning jar in it and make the yougart that way. It works pretty well.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
oh, 2 things i meant to add. i don't know if odwalla is legal--i wouldn't trust it bc they're owned by cocacola. (no offense--i just hate cocacola







).

where do you get pascalite? should i take that? can someone explain why it would make it possible for me to take more co and possibly enzymes if i took the clay?

also--i swear i'm not eating enough but i'm not losing weight like it seems i normally would if i ate this little. what do you think that means? and it's not hidden calories from nuts bc i hardly have anything with them. in fact, how do you have nut butter if you can't have raw food yet? twice i've just had a spoonful of peanut or almond butter with honey. amazing how that satisfied, but there's got to be a better way, right?

Google pascalite. There are a couple different companies selling it. They all cost about the same. It works to absorb the toxins and take them from your body. I have found that it really helps with die off and releives my stomach aches.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok so I'm reading the Imunology thread and it has me really freaked out about getting minerals now. So today I was re-reading in NT (amazing how much I missed in the first time through!) She talks about lacto fermented beverages helping with mineral absorbtion. Soooo... Has anyone made any of them??? Are they any good??? Obviously many of them aren't scd legal but some of them are. I'm thinking about starting with the almond beverage since that takes the least effort. I'm intrigued by the grape cooler but don't have a juicer or access to a case of organic grapes. This book is making me want a juicer though...

What else have you made??? Our sourkraut ran out and dh hasn't made more yet. I'm thinking about just getting some of the Bubbies... One less thing to do.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
How scary!! And how brave of you to save the yogurt







(I would have done the same thing). And like caedmyn, I have left the water on in the sink, full blast, for some time too. I just forget that I put it on (I sound like my mother...)

Speaking of mothers, Jane that was so awesome what you posted about the Vit A&D and how it can help the face grow!! Very interesting, b/c I just realized that *my* mother was a vegetarian before she was pregnant w/me and for most of the pregnancy. AND while I have my wisdom teeth (and healthy too), I had to have my first 4 molars taken out as "there wasn't enough room" in my mouth--think retainers and braces, etc, etc.

Is this the test you are speaking of Jane for yeast v. bacteria? http://www.gdx.net/home/education/da...documents.html

Oh and how many of those Nordic Natural strawberry balls should my kiddos be eating? The bottle says 4, and for 3 yrs & up. So how many should my 17m old and 4 yr old get? And what is the blue ice thing? I totally missed that, is that what everyone is taking for CLO--I worry that I'm not taking enough.

RE: tests
Yes, the Microbiology section of Genova for the stool test or the OAT urine test from Metametrix.

See here for CLO and dosage recs for high vitamin version.
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html

I don't know re: low vitamin DHA/EPA recs for various ages. Maybe Amanda would have some ideas? I think you all should be slamming down the high vitamin stuff though and rebuild your stores. Removing teeth b/c of crowding is classic narrowed palate problem.








and







*to Chasmyn!!!!*

I've done many things this bad in the kitchen. I've scorched plastic lids when making yogurt (by turning on oven with the mason jars in there.) I've left burners on for hours, sometimes under empty pots or teakettle (electric stove, can't tell the stupid thing is on half the time). Interesting how metal starts clicking when it heats red hot...

I also tend to leave the house w/o my wallet lately so I'm driving around with no money or license!! (but hey, I've got lots of legal snacks for me and DS and usually lunch for him too if we are gone for entire AM b/c he has to eat in car on way home.)

I've run red lights ... I saw them just fine but somehow my brain just didn't tell me to stop that time! Put food that is supposed to be in the fridge in the pantry next to it instead. The list goes on. I've scared myself so much I think I'm developing OCD to combat it.







Such as sometimes repeating to myself while driving: "Pay attention, stop at red lights, look at what cars are doing around you." Double check stove, door locks, etc etc several times before leaving house. Now I gotta add wallet to list... and actually I'm considering putting a checklist next to door. It's really pathetic!!

Gotta run, busy day tom.
DS going to dentist (an hr away but soooo worth it) and I forgot to get him his presents beforehand, so we have to leave early and go to store for 'Happy Dentist Day'


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Well, my acupuncturist doesn't think that it is ileocecal valve syndrome, since the pain I have moves. He thinks it is allergy/enzyme related. So does this mean the SCD is the way to go?

Also, how should I take enzymes and probiotics? Not at the same time, right?


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Oh and how many of those Nordic Natural strawberry balls should my kiddos be eating? The bottle says 4, and for 3 yrs & up. So how many should my 17m old and 4 yr old get?

I recently ran out of the NN Berry Keen so I'm using the strawberry balls right now. I've been giving dd 10 of them on the days I remember to give them to her at all.

Let's see... The Children's DHA contains Vitamin A: 200-400 IU andVitamin D: 1-4 IU per 4 softgels. So, each one has 50-10 IU of vitamin A and .25-1 IU of vitamin D. The Price website recommends 5000 IU of vitamin A and 500 IU of vitamin D. So that would be what, 50 of the balls daily? Wow. I may have to try some of the Blue Ice.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

The papanature.com deal expeired march 31, 2006.








I could have used some $$ back...


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## Ambercrystal (Apr 17, 2006)




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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Well, my acupuncturist doesn't think that it is ileocecal valve syndrome, since the pain I have moves. He thinks it is allergy/enzyme related. So does this mean the SCD is the way to go?

Also, how should I take enzymes and probiotics? Not at the same time, right?

You're supposed to take enzymes at the beginning of a meal, so you would take probiotics at the end (unless they're natural ones in yogurt or whatever, then you can take them whenever). You can also take enzymes in between meals.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

So if I take Candidase between meals do I keep taking the broad spec. enzymes with the meals? I'm gonna go broke because of this "lousy" candida. Couldn't find a more family friendly word...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
oh, 2 things i meant to add. i don't know if odwalla is legal--i wouldn't trust it bc they're owned by cocacola. (no offense--i just hate cocacola







).

where do you get pascalite? should i take that? can someone explain why it would make it possible for me to take more co and possibly enzymes if i took the clay?

also--i swear i'm not eating enough but i'm not losing weight like it seems i normally would if i ate this little. what do you think that means? and it's not hidden calories from nuts bc i hardly have anything with them. in fact, how do you have nut butter if you can't have raw food yet? twice i've just had a spoonful of peanut or almond butter with honey. amazing how that satisfied, but there's got to be a better way, right?

Well Odwalla says they're not from concentrate and if I remember right that's the criteria for juices, so I guess they're okay. I don't know if they're any worse than any other big juice company, and at least they're not ultra pasturized and shelf stable! I drink juice once in a blue moon anyway, though, so it's not like it's a huge deal.

I got pascalite clay off ebay. I think it was like $8-9 for a pound of it and then $5 for shipping. There were 2 sellers when I looked--one had 8 oz and 20 lb! packages and one had 1 lb packages which were roughly the same price as the 8 oz ones. It's supposed to help with die off so you might be able to take more co and enzymes with it.

Apparently nut butter doesn't fall into the raw food category. I always cook mine into pancakes, though, just because I like it that way. I either do 2 Tbsp of nut butter with 1 egg and a bit of baking soda (makes a really thin batter but it works) or do 1 banana, 2 eggs, 1/4 c. of almond butter, baking soda, and cinnamon (the recipe calls for PB but I use almond and add cinnamon). Then I fry them in coconut oil









I also stopped losing weight after about the first week, in spite of eating pretty much the same amount as I had for the first week.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok so I'm reading the Imunology thread and it has me really freaked out about getting minerals now. So today I was re-reading in NT (amazing how much I missed in the first time through!) She talks about lacto fermented beverages helping with mineral absorbtion. Soooo... Has anyone made any of them??? Are they any good??? Obviously many of them aren't scd legal but some of them are. I'm thinking about starting with the almond beverage since that takes the least effort. I'm intrigued by the grape cooler but don't have a juicer or access to a case of organic grapes. This book is making me want a juicer though...

What else have you made??? Our sourkraut ran out and dh hasn't made more yet. I'm thinking about just getting some of the Bubbies... One less thing to do.

I haven't made any of the beverages because they all call for whey and since I'm not doing dairy...but hopefully DD will be okay with goat and I can do goat milk whey and then I'll try some.

I have made ginger carrots, those weren't bad (and I don't like pickled foods, so that's saying something). Actually I don't like fresh ginger, either, so I just used powdered ginger and it worked fine


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
So if I take Candidase between meals do I keep taking the broad spec. enzymes with the meals? I'm gonna go broke because of this "lousy" candida. Couldn't find a more family friendly word...

Yes, it's supposed to work best if you do both. Are you taking a yeast kiiller, too? That's supposed to be much more effective than just taking enzymes between meals (according to enzymestuff.com). Raw garlic, oil of oregano (if not preg or nursing), grapefruit seed extract...


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## tedescokid (Apr 17, 2005)

Joining in -

I am currently doing an elimination diet (no sugars including fruit, wheat, dairy) to try and deal with a yeast overgrowth - I think. I am feeling better. I am considering doing something with the rest of my family's diet. Quick history - both kids (ages almost 5 and 2) have had a history of mucousy stools. Had stool tests done on 5 yo when she was under 1 - normal. Allergy tests (RAST) for 2 yo twice both normal. Now, ds still has lots of mucous in stool. Ped is not concerned!! as he is a big kid for his age so feels he is growing. However, I do not think mucous in the stool is NORMAL?!?!? Not sure about dd as she uses the toilet and I don't feel like fishing it out to check.

So I am reading this with interest and the cheat sheet and now feel as though my head is going to EXPLODE! Between my diet issues right now (which I have adjusted to) and needing to try and figure out theirs!!!

My questions for you -

1) There seems to be some contradicitons between the different approaches advocated - NT, BTVC, etc. Does everyone just do trial and error between the different things to figure it out?

2) What does WAP stand for? I have figured out most of the others but not that one.

3) My ped has agreed to stool tests for both kids. Here is what I have asked for - celiac, malabsorbtion, blood in stool. Anything else I should ask for? Not that he will do it but at least I want to try and cover my bases.

4) With regard to supplements (I am currently following the Diet Cure so I am taking a crazy amount of them), how do you figure out doses for kids? I am specifically wondering about helping them deal with die off. The diet cure author feels her recomemended supplements help mitigate die off symptoms and I really have not had terrible symptoms as I expected.

Sorry if this is old news for you but I am really feeling like this is beyond my skill set









Tonya


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Yes, it's supposed to work best if you do both. Are you taking a yeast kiiller, too? That's supposed to be much more effective than just taking enzymes between meals (according to enzymestuff.com). Raw garlic, oil of oregano (if not preg or nursing), grapefruit seed extract...

I'm eating 4-6 cloves of raw garlic/day to no avail (several weeks) so I'm hoping Candidase will give me a boost. so far all I got from garlic is a garlic BO. Why can't we take OOO (bf-ing)? What about olive leaf? I'm also taking coconut oil. What else kills Candida? And of course I'm on the SCD with no honey and minimal fruits.

More questions for anyone who knows:
How much glutamine to take. I have 500 mg pills, is 3 a day enough?
How much epsom salts are you putting in the tub, I put 1 cup and had no salt residue on my skin and felt no difference.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tedescokid*
Joining in -

I am currently doing an elimination diet (no sugars including fruit, wheat, dairy) to try and deal with a yeast overgrowth - I think. I am feeling better. I am considering doing something with the rest of my family's diet. Quick history - both kids (ages almost 5 and 2) have had a history of mucousy stools. Had stool tests done on 5 yo when she was under 1 - normal. Allergy tests (RAST) for 2 yo twice both normal. Now, ds still has lots of mucous in stool. Ped is not concerned!! as he is a big kid for his age so feels he is growing. However, I do not think mucous in the stool is NORMAL?!?!? Not sure about dd as she uses the toilet and I don't feel like fishing it out to check.

So I am reading this with interest and the cheat sheet and now feel as though my head is going to EXPLODE! Between my diet issues right now (which I have adjusted to) and needing to try and figure out theirs!!!

My questions for you -

1) There seems to be some contradicitons between the different approaches advocated - NT, BTVC, etc. Does everyone just do trial and error between the different things to figure it out?

2) What does WAP stand for? I have figured out most of the others but not that one.

3) My ped has agreed to stool tests for both kids. Here is what I have asked for - celiac, malabsorbtion, blood in stool. Anything else I should ask for? Not that he will do it but at least I want to try and cover my bases.

4) With regard to supplements (I am currently following the Diet Cure so I am taking a crazy amount of them), how do you figure out doses for kids? I am specifically wondering about helping them deal with die off. The diet cure author feels her recomemended supplements help mitigate die off symptoms and I really have not had terrible symptoms as I expected.

Sorry if this is old news for you but I am really feeling like this is beyond my skill set









Tonya

Welcome to the exploding head club! Mine felt like when I first started reading, too...sometimes it still does.

BTVC/SCD is a diet specifically for gut healing. NT is more an overall way of life (not that some people don't make SCD a permanent way of life). Most people here do both--follow the SCD but use NT principles, like soaking nuts overnight to make them more digestible and using natural/free range/grass fed meats and eggs, along with homemade broth/stock. Other diets mentioned are Eat Fat Lose Fat (EFLF) which follows NT principles...I don't know if anyone is doing that primarily for gut healing, though. Also the Maker's Diet, which follows some of the SCD principles but progresses much faster as far as adding foods--this one also follows NT principles.

WAP stands for Weston A Price...he was a dentist who did a bunch of research on isolated native populations eating non-processed foods, and he learned that they had almost no disease of any kind as long as they ate their native diet. NT is based on his ideas. There is also a WAP Foundation.

I have read that the supplement dose for kids is 1/3-1/4 of the adult dose. Things you can do for die off include epsom salt baths and taking pascalite clay.

Oh, and the SCD is also supposed to help with yeast issues, so that might be something you could do, also, if you wanted...just so you aren't trying to prepare two separate time-consuming meals all the time...you could still do it without fruits if you wanted.

HTH!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Welcome to the exploding head club! Mine felt like when I first started reading, too...sometimes it still does.

BTVC/SCD is a diet specifically for gut healing. NT is more an overall way of life (not that some people don't make SCD a permanent way of life). Most people here do both--follow the SCD but use NT principles, like soaking nuts overnight to make them more digestible and using natural/free range/grass fed meats and eggs, along with homemade broth/stock. Other diets mentioned are Eat Fat Lose Fat (EFLF) which follows NT principles...I don't know if anyone is doing that primarily for gut healing, though. Also the Maker's Diet, which follows some of the SCD principles but progresses much faster as far as adding foods--this one also follows NT principles.

WAP stands for Weston A Price...he was a dentist who did a bunch of research on isolated native populations eating non-processed foods, and he learned that they had almost no disease of any kind as long as they ate their native diet. NT is based on his ideas. There is also a WAP Foundation.

I have read that the supplement dose for kids is 1/3-1/4 of the adult dose. Things you can do for die off include epsom salt baths and taking pascalite clay.

Oh, and the SCD is also supposed to help with yeast issues, so that might be something you could do, also, if you wanted...just so you aren't trying to prepare two separate time-consuming meals all the time...you could still do it without fruits if you wanted.

HTH!

Wow, that is really helpful. I have been reading the various threads for a while now, and still didn't completely have a handle on it. One last question: is BTVC also deal with allergies? Part of me resists going that way since it seems restrictive and I am not dealing with yeast, but then I wonder if it isn't what I need.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Wow, that is really helpful. I have been reading the various threads for a while now, and still didn't completely have a handle on it. One last question: is BTVC also deal with allergies? Part of me resists going that way since it seems restrictive and I am not dealing with yeast, but then I wonder if it isn't what I need.

Yes it is also for allergies (I assume you are talking about food allergies). The theory being that leaky gut/holes in the gut allow improperly digested food particles into the bloodstream which causes symptoms of food allergies. So if the leaky gut is healed, the food allergies should go away (except in the case of anaphylactic allergies and true celiac disease).


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Can anyone who is taking Blue Ice CLO recommend a flavor for me? I was about to order it but thought I'd better check here first!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Can anyone who is taking Blue Ice CLO recommend a flavor for me? I was about to order it but thought I'd better check here first!









I always take plain. I've had too many bad experiences as a child with flavored clo.







I've heard some can be quite good but I stay away. I find that it is a pretty mild fish flavor as clo's go.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Can anyone who is taking Blue Ice CLO recommend a flavor for me? I was about to order it but thought I'd better check here first!









Yes please!! My friend and I are going to split a half-case and we don't want to get a dud flavor, or worse a uke flavor














I really can't afford 50 strawberry balls a day, per child, either


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

welcome tedescokid!

oh, i wasn't trying to suggest nut butters were raw--i meant what do you eat them with if you can have raw veggies yet--like carrots or celery with peanut butter (which i am craving, with raisin on it--this is the diet of my childhood, it seems!).

jane--how did dental fun day go? how old is your ds? i hope he wasn't going in for anything scary (sorry if you said and i missed it!).

i got some bentonite clay. gonna google to see what to do with it, or whether to return it and order pascalite off the internet.

EBG--i take glutamine 500 mg 3x day, but i read in what your dr may not tell you about premenopause that you can take 500mg 4x a day. i just don't want to tke at at night bc i've seen janes post that's it has a stimulant effect and i never remember to take a fourth during the day. hmm, maybe i should take two in the morning







but, seriously, after the effects of co, i'm not messing with supplements.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

wow! just read about bentonite. sounds cool! do i need to build up to it? any warnings/advice? i'm planning on taking a tbsp when i wake up, then 1.5 teaspoons (all i can handle) co, then my yogurt. does that sound right?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
+
jane--how did dental fun day go? how old is your ds? i hope he wasn't going in for anything scary (sorry if you said and i missed it!).

Happy Dentist Day went *awesome*









Another big sigh of relief from me. All is just fine! This is his second visit. He is turning 3, yikes, next month. He was an absolute peach and it took a long time too.

Just a cleaning, but he has been collecting tartar and I've been worried. Also since his minerals were messed up in his hair test, digestive issues are continuing, etc. etc. I've been living in absolute fear of cavities. Because it's not just want you eat, it's what you absorb.

The tartar (aka calculus b/c it's comprised of calcium) is a result of either magnesium/mineral imbalance or ph issues. And he cannot do even the X Factor butter oil, he's too reactive to cow dairy (diarrhea and skin issues). At least I've got him completely on raw goat now. That will help with mineral absorption. And worked up from teensy tiny amounts of Natural Calm mag.

Anyways... I'm soooooooooooo happy!







:

At least I feel like I've done one thing right so far....


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
wow! just read about bentonite. sounds cool! do i need to build up to it? any warnings/advice? i'm planning on taking a tbsp when i wake up, then 1.5 teaspoons (all i can handle) co, then my yogurt. does that sound right?

I don't know how I feel about this. Moneca has done this for a long time and saw positive results in it reducing her Hg toxicity.

But I wonder how bentonite acts in a leaky gut? b/c it's not *supposed* to be absorbed doesn't mean it really isn't. And does all bentonite contain aluminum or just certain kinds? I don't know if pascalite even does either.

All questions, no help from me on this post!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Yes please!! My friend and I are going to split a half-case and we don't want to get a dud flavor, or worse a uke flavor














I really can't afford 50 strawberry balls a day, per child, either









The orange is very strong. One of the issues i have with it is the rosemary oil in addition to the citrus flavor. I'm nearing the end of our stash and am going to try this unflavored one:
http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/pr.../ct/1/pid/1034

That amount of omega 3 is not good either.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Well, my acupuncturist doesn't think that it is ileocecal valve syndrome, since the pain I have moves. He thinks it is allergy/enzyme related. So does this mean the SCD is the way to go?

Also, how should I take enzymes and probiotics? Not at the same time, right?

Yep, SCD or some other gut healing regime.

Devin Houston says there is not an issue with combining the 2 together.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tedescokid*
Joining in -

I am currently doing an elimination diet (no sugars including fruit, wheat, dairy) to try and deal with a yeast overgrowth - I think. I am feeling better. I am considering doing something with the rest of my family's diet. Quick history - both kids (ages almost 5 and 2) have had a history of mucousy stools. Had stool tests done on 5 yo when she was under 1 - normal. Allergy tests (RAST) for 2 yo twice both normal. Now, ds still has lots of mucous in stool. Ped is not concerned!! as he is a big kid for his age so feels he is growing. However, I do not think mucous in the stool is NORMAL?!?!? Not sure about dd as she uses the toilet and I don't feel like fishing it out to check.

So I am reading this with interest and the cheat sheet and now feel as though my head is going to EXPLODE! Between my diet issues right now (which I have adjusted to) and needing to try and figure out theirs!!!

My questions for you -

1) There seems to be some contradicitons between the different approaches advocated - NT, BTVC, etc. Does everyone just do trial and error between the different things to figure it out?

2) What does WAP stand for? I have figured out most of the others but not that one.

3) My ped has agreed to stool tests for both kids. Here is what I have asked for - celiac, malabsorbtion, blood in stool. Anything else I should ask for? Not that he will do it but at least I want to try and cover my bases.

4) With regard to supplements (I am currently following the Diet Cure so I am taking a crazy amount of them), how do you figure out doses for kids? I am specifically wondering about helping them deal with die off. The diet cure author feels her recomemended supplements help mitigate die off symptoms and I really have not had terrible symptoms as I expected.

Sorry if this is old news for you but I am really feeling like this is beyond my skill set









Tonya

Welcome Tonya










It will take a while to learn and absorb, just keep at it but believe me, my head is still exploding too, I have a ton of research I need to do and am putting it off (bad mama).

There are many ways of healing a gut I imagine. And as far as differences between the approaches, it may be trial and error is needed. Or just more learning as far as the rationale behind the approaches. (Again such as soaking nuts. BTVC says don't do it, it will encourage mold growth, but NT says to soak in saltwater solution in which mold will not grow. BTVC ignores a lot of solid research on phytic acid impairing mineral absorption and enzyme inhibitors simply b/c the original founder of the diet, Dr. Haas, didn't look at them.)

I would go for the full CDSA Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis from Genova if your Ped is willing to run it, will show leaky gut and bacteriology.

I don't know what the Diet Cure is... What supps are you taking?

My favorite link on WAP, a must read for any parent:
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...ry_wisdom.html


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Hello all you *gut*sy Mamas! I'm new here, and my DD (19 months) has some issues I'd like to address.
She had some bumpy patches of flesh-colored skin on her torso, so I did a wheat elimination diet to try and get rid of them. We are ECers, and after 3-4 weeks of being wheat-free, she began peeing less frequently and made the switch to undies 100% of the time. It seems she was pee reactive to wheat, either consuming it herself or through the breastmilk. I have also found that she is pee reactive to zucchini, butternut squash, carrots, and Bach's Rescue Remedy. I am able to consume these things though.
A little while later I got "Is This Your Child?" by Doris Rapp MD and matched the redness between DD's buttcheeks to the yeasty rash picture in the book. I applied lavander EO to it and it went away in a few days.
Then I noticed that there were bits of undigested food in her stool (grape and bean skins I feel are normal, but bits of mushroom, rice, mango I feel are not). Her stools are fine otherwise. She goes twice a day usually, but if she doesn't she makes up for it the next day.
Then I noticed her vulva was red and that there was a slightly smelly, cheesy discharge. I immediately thought yeast, so I began sprinkling some of the probiotc powder from my capsules onto the area (not putting lavender EO on these girly parts!), and it went away in a couple of days. I also switched from yogurt to kefir in her smoothies.
She's 32 pounds. Every day I make her a smoothie (banana, kefir, 1/2 teaspoon baby acidophilus, 1/4 teaspoon kelp powder [to try to get rid of the bumps, and it's working!], sesame milk, and 1/4 CO. I am taking an acidophilus capsule every day and 1/2 teaspoon CO twice a day.
Now my questions:
~Do these repeated issues with external yeast signify an imbalance in the gut?
~Since she is as large as a two year old (even a little larger in some cases), can I up her probiotic powder dosage?
~How much CO is too much? We just started taking it this week, hence the small doses, but how will I know when we've reached our limit?
~I am pretty certain that I do not have a yeast problem. Is there anything that I can do that will transfer through the breastmilk?
~Will my consumption of raw garlic benefit her in any way?
~I am also taking 3000 mg of Evening Primrose Oil to help with my irritability, can ths negatively affect her in any way reagrding her gut issues (I did research it before I started taking it, so I know the it generally won't affect her)?
I think that's all for now.








Thanks, Mamas!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Does anyone have a magnesium that they give their young child? Either liquid or chewable that is scd legal? I was looking at the brain child stuff. I would love to give that to dd but WOW!!!$$$

I made some beet kvass today.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Lots seem to reccomend natural Calm magnesium. Just ordered it yeseterday so will let you know.

Mommyof PunkiePie: Glad to see you joined us (I am also from ec yahoo list and I think reccommended you here)

Do you have any digestive issues? Any yeast or bacterial issues? I didnt' think I had any problems until I started to realize that my "mainstream america promblems" were probably yeast related. I have psoriasis or whatever on my scalp( basically very itchy flaky scalp that varies alot), have always had bacterial vaginosis issues, thrush on and off for 3 months lasst year, major gas and bloating, and very bad mood swings and sugar cravings. i never would have thought these were anyting out of the ordinary until I started researching.

basically i think many kids have allergies is because the mom has leaky gut and they are getting bombarded with undigested proteins so early that the breastmilk just cannot heal or close thier gut. It just doesn't make sense why all these kids are being sensitive to so many foods nowadays. So I think healing the gut is the first step to fighting alleriges.

have you checked out the cheat sheet yet?

Yes, I think the repeated yeast issues mean somthing. Not digesting food and the rashes could mean yeast problems for sure.

On CO most people react with yeast dieoff or stomach aches when taking too much.

If you are breastfeeding any enzymes, garlic, or probitotics you take should benefit her too.

RE: BLue ICe flavors. I still recommend the cinnamon. I like it. DD loves it. Some people say it's gross. IT all is definetely a personal issue i guess. Tried the mint and orange too. Mint was ok. Orange was way too fishy. Cinnamon I can take off the spoon do problem and dd asks for more. Now the butter oil we always take last and I think is so much worse to get down.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Pascalite is in the same family as bentonite, but they are not the same thing at all. Bentonite is an expanding clay which means that it can (and will) absorb nutrients whereas pascalite will actually deliver nutrients. Pascalite has been stringently tested and does not have high levels of heavy metals-benonite cannot say the same. Just wanted to be clear because I do recommend and take pascalite-I have never recommended bentonite clay.


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Do you have any digestive issues? Any yeast or bacterial issues? I didnt' think I had any problems until I started to realize that my "mainstream america promblems" were probably yeast related. I have psoriasis or whatever on my scalp( basically very itchy flaky scalp that varies alot), have always had bacterial vaginosis issues, thrush on and off for 3 months lasst year, major gas and bloating, and very bad mood swings and sugar cravings. i never would have thought these were anyting out of the ordinary until I started researching.

I don't have any digestive issues that I know of, of course when I read the 'Everything you ever wanted to know about poop' page from the Cheat Sheet, I guess I do suffer from diarrhea because I go (normally formed) several times a day. I don't think I have yeast problems, I took a yeast quiz http://www.mall-net.com/cgibin/quiz4.cgi?quiz=crook.qa and scored out of the yeast range. Bacterial issues, no. Ever since I moved back to Indiana in June 2004 from Florida, I have had a dry, flaky scalp, but the water here is extremely hard. I have just switched to washing my hair with a baking soda paste and conditioning with apple cider vinegar, and things are clearing up on that front. I don't bloat often (only during AF, if then) and I only have gas appropriately (and I come from a VERY gassy family







). My brother has Crohn's Disease and yeast issues, and my Mother I think has yeast issues but she won't listen to what I say (she started to take CO as a supplement and got pretty ill, so I believe it was die-off).
The thing I wonder about is DD's father's side. There is nothing I can do to get them involved in her life. When he still spoke to me, he told me there were no major allergies, but his father left him when he was five, so he may not even know. I just sent a Mother's Day update to DD's grandmother and mentioned her sensitivities, so maybe she'll think of something that was never mentioned to me before.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tedescokid*
4) With regard to supplements (I am currently following the Diet Cure so I am taking a crazy amount of them), how do you figure out doses for kids?

As far as supplements go, I've always heard that the adult dose is based on 150 lbs. So you would divide down to your child's weight to figure it out. That's what my midwife friend, dd's pediatrician and her allergist all do.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Depends on the supplement. There are two different formulas. I'll dig them up and post them so I make sure there's no misinformation...


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

OK - I've been reading/lurking for a long time now (ever since dd, now 7.5 months, developed eczema at around 2.5-3 months), and I think I'm finally convinced that I need to do SCD in order to help dd.

I don't have any yeast-y sypmtoms, but all kinds of elimination diets haven't helped dd's eczema, so I bought 'Breaking the Vicious Cycle' last week, and I have essentially been SCD legal since the beginning of this week (although I haven't done the intro diet, so I'm still eating fruit/veg/etc - it's just that I've cut out all the starches and sugar).

Well - dd's face is a lot better. And it has been all week (which is what is convincing me this might be helping - previously, she'd get better for a day or two, but then flare up badly again, no matter what I'd eaten).

And I've been feeling yucky since yesterday - aches/chills, a sore throat and vague headache. I just thought I'd picked up some kind of bug, but then it occurred to me that it could be die off?

Anyway...I'm committed to at least giving it a try. And after the elimination diet I've been on, SCD doesn't sound too bad!

BUT - I am wary of introducing both dairy and nuts into my diet. Dairy, because I was very allergic to it as a baby/toddler, and dd has obvious sensitivity issues. And nuts - well, I've been nut-free since I got pregnant with my oldest over 7 years ago, because nut allergies just scare the crap out of me.

So those of you have been there - what would you recommend? I was going to give the homemade yoghurt a try, as that seems 'safer' since the good buggies will have been working on the milk. But I'm wary of cheese (although I would soooo love to have some!).

And nuts - what should I do about those? It would make this diet so much more fun if I could eat nuts, but it really, really scares me...

Any advice would be appreciated (sorry for just jumping right in with questions!).

Thanks all!


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommiska*
OK - I've been reading/lurking for a long time now (ever since dd, now 7.5 months, developed eczema at around 2.5-3 months), and I think I'm finally convinced that I need to do SCD in order to help dd.

I don't have any yeast-y sypmtoms, but all kinds of elimination diets haven't helped dd's eczema, so I bought 'Breaking the Vicious Cycle' last week, and I have essentially been SCD legal since the beginning of this week (although I haven't done the intro diet, so I'm still eating fruit/veg/etc - it's just that I've cut out all the starches and sugar).

Well - dd's face is a lot better. And it has been all week (which is what is convincing me this might be helping - previously, she'd get better for a day or two, but then flare up badly again, no matter what I'd eaten).

And I've been feeling yucky since yesterday - aches/chills, a sore throat and vague headache. I just thought I'd picked up some kind of bug, but then it occurred to me that it could be die off?

Anyway...I'm committed to at least giving it a try. And after the elimination diet I've been on, SCD doesn't sound too bad!

BUT - I am wary of introducing both dairy and nuts into my diet. Dairy, because I was very allergic to it as a baby/toddler, and dd has obvious sensitivity issues. And nuts - well, I've been nut-free since I got pregnant with my oldest over 7 years ago, because nut allergies just scare the crap out of me.

So those of you have been there - what would you recommend? I was going to give the homemade yoghurt a try, as that seems 'safer' since the good buggies will have been working on the milk. But I'm wary of cheese (although I would soooo love to have some!).

And nuts - what should I do about those? It would make this diet so much more fun if I could eat nuts, but it really, really scares me...

Any advice would be appreciated (sorry for just jumping right in with questions!).

Thanks all!

If you only have lactose intolerance, you can eat the yogurt and the cheeses. You could also be allergic to casein-in this case even the yogurt won't help. However, you can make yogurt with coconut milk, you just need to add honey for the bacteria to eat. You can also try an SCD recommended probiotic first. As the gut heals many people are able add dairy in later stages. Or try goat's milk as the milk proteins consist of smaller globules that are easier to digest.

As for nuts, many of us have found that soaking them in salty water and slow roasting them will make them more tolerable. (as per Nourishing Traditions). However, if you are truly allergic to any nuts, don't use them ever.

Coconut flour works in some recipes.

Good luck!


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## nonniecita (Jul 23, 2005)

-


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
The orange is very strong. One of the issues i have with it is the rosemary oil in addition to the citrus flavor. I'm nearing the end of our stash and am going to try this unflavored one:
http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/pr.../ct/1/pid/1034

That amount of omega 3 is not good either.

That looks like a good one. Do you mean the amount of omega 3 in this one is not good or the Blue Ice?
The one you linked to looks pretty cost effective too.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

JaneS--I'm going to start goat yogurt next week. Any tips on making it? I've heard that it (raw goat's milk) needs to "age" in the frig for a day or two to make good yogurt, and also that if the milk is too old (more than a few days) it tastes goaty. Also, what should I be looking for to tell if DD is tolerating it? She still has all her allergy symptoms, even had a bit of bloody poop yesterday after 2 weeks of no bloody poop









firefaery--how come all the supplements you recommend taste nasty?







The MSM powder is nasty, the liquid zinc tastes horrible, even the Pharmax probiotics are awful! I don't know how you manage to take all of them--if I stick them in a smoothie they just make the smoothie taste yucky, too.


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## sbgrace (Sep 22, 2004)

I have a quick question (I hope it is ok to just jump in...) My son has autism and a history of antibiotic usage (took me a while to learn to question our drs. unfortunately). I suspect yeast issues (we are hoping to do a stool and urine test if insurance finally approves). I am starting the SCD diet (had been gf/cf and on probiotics for about 9 months with no noticeable improvement). His dr. who is wanting to run the tests for yeast and other issues said that if he comes back with yeast we will talk about nystatin. I know my sister's baby had thrush and after genetian violet didn't get it they did lots of nystatin and finally diflucan.
My question which will just show my ignorance maybe (please be kind to me...I am trying my best to learn). If I am going to do the SCD would it maybe jump start the yeast die off to do nystatin or even diflucan? Are these bad if you are going to do all the healthy stuff to keep the yeast away?


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## tedescokid (Apr 17, 2005)

Thanks for your responses. I am no questioning my theories as my ds has come down with a terrible cold overnight so that is definitely contributing to his mucousy stools. However, I do think they would all do better on a healing diet and then less dairy and wheat. I am trying to introduce raw butter and yogurt without much success but will continue to try.

JaneS - The Diet Cure is by Julia Ross. It is like the anti diet book. Her take is that many of the symptoms people are facing are due to brain chemical inbalances, yeast/bacteria overgrowth, excessive yo yo dieting, etc. She tackles 8 main "problems". For me it was mainly yeast, possible hormone inbalances (which I haven't even begun to tackle but maybe should as I was a raging lunatic with PMS the past few days). She is heavy on supplements but only short term. It is an interesting read but is not a way of life eating type book. She also wrote the Mood Cure.

A few more questions for all of you -

Where do I find some good smoothie recipes (cookbook even) that has healthy recipes in them. I made a delicious (I thought) smoothie this morning and neither kid would eat - banana, yogurt, coconut milk and flax seed.

Does anyone know if I can take Candex if I am nursing ds 1x day?

Where do I find recommended dosages of CLO for myself and kids? I have read through the posts and can't find it. We currently take NN but if it is as much as you are all talking about I guess I will switch to straight oil. I don't know how I will get that down my dd's throat but I will do my best.

Thanks again - Tonya


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tedescokid*
Where do I find recommended dosages of CLO for myself and kids? I have read through the posts and can't find it. We currently take NN but if it is as much as you are all talking about I guess I will switch to straight oil. I don't know how I will get that down my dd's throat but I will do my best.

Thanks again - Tonya

JaneS posted this for me a few pages back. http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html
HTH

I agree w/ wondering how they will take it. JaneS also just posted another good CLO source but not sure how my kids will take it. They love their "fishy tablets" strawberry from NN but I guess it isn't really getting much into them.


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## tedescokid (Apr 17, 2005)

Thanks for the link. Follow up question - we have raw butter right now. Is it enough for them to be eating in stuff - bread, on noodles, etc. Or do I need to get more into them? Wondering about the whole Activator X thing. Tonya


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## Mommiska (Jan 3, 2002)

EBG - thanks so much for your suggestions! A couple of questions - what kind of coconut milk can you use? The only kind I seem to find here (I live in the UK) is canned - will that work?

As for the dairy and the nuts - I don't have any issues (that i know of!) with either dairy (anymore - I outgrew them as a toddler) or nuts. I just stopped eating peanuts and tree nuts when I started having kids to reduce the chances of them developing a nut allergy. I'm afraid if I do the nut flour thing, I'll expose dd to nuts and she'll develop an allergy to them, you know?

Does soaking them and dry roasting them make them less allergenic?

Has anyone else worried about this issue as well?

The dairy - I'm just guessing that dd is allergic to dairy, since it's such a common allergen and she's had such bad eczema. I'm thinking I'll try the homemade yoghurt and see how it goes...

Thanks again!


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Yes, it's supposed to work best if you do both. Are you taking a yeast kiiller, too? That's supposed to be much more effective than just taking enzymes between meals (according to enzymestuff.com). Raw garlic, oil of oregano (if not preg or nursing), grapefruit seed extract...

are any of the garlic products out there any good? i like cooked garlic, but i'm finding it really hard to swallow raw garlic...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vaquitita*
are any of the garlic products out there any good? i like cooked garlic, but i'm finding it really hard to swallow raw garlic...

I've heard raw is better than any of the garlic products, but it's definitely more of a pain...I put it in capsules, otherwise I'm sure I wouldn't get it down.


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## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommiska*
EBG - thanks so much for your suggestions! A couple of questions - what kind of coconut milk can you use? The only kind I seem to find here (I live in the UK) is canned - will that work?


Canned coconut milk is one of the few ok canned things


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

ff--where did you learn about bentonite vs pascalite because i'd like to learn more. i took the bentonite before i read your post and (thisis probably a coincidence) but my girls played happily this morning like never before. but i'd hate to rob myself of the nutrients i'm payng so dearly to get into myself! i just don't understand how pascalite changes bentonite into such a positive force. i hope this doesn't sound like i'm doubting what you say--i don't. i just want to find out more







. tx!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Hmmmm....lots of conferences! I believe it's Shirley's Wellness Cafe that does a decent rundown on different clays, you could also just google them.

For the absorption-many MW's recommend against bentonite for that particular reason. It has some good uses, but pascalite is actually a live clay. It's very different. IF you are taking it between meals you won't have the issue, but you also won't get the full benefits of pascalite (minerals.) If I can find my old links I'll post them. Also, pascalite is an amazing multi tasker. For the $ you can't beat it.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Okay, my quick question of the night, can die-off cause vomitting??

Here's my story. 2-3 weeks ago, when we decided to cut out honey and fruits and start back at the beginning again w/our 4 yr old, he puked for 2 days. Strangely enough, no one else got the pukies. This is strange *for me* as I always get the kids colds and stuff, probably b/c of the b/fing.

Today my 4 yr old puked twice and has been miserable. We also stopped the honey/fruit thing a couple of days ago....

Coinky-dink? I think not. Anyone else have some info on this?? And what can I do to help him, poor lil' guy. We've been doing the epsom salt baths, but he's really not into enzymes right now (couldn't blame him), anything else??

Dairy allergy, I too cannot have cow dairy. Itchiness, headaches, cramps, insane amts of snot, but I can tolerate goat dairy no problem. So maybe you'll have the same experience, Mommiska.

Canned coconut milk, make sure it only contains, coconut, water and guar gum. Some varieties (a lot of the conventional types) have a bunch of crap in them.

CLO!! Wow Jane, that stuff looks amazing!! And cheap.







So, if I'm going by the highest amt necessary, I should be taking 2T of that stuff you recommended, 20,000 I.U. and 2000 I.U. (for nursing mamas) as opposed to a half gallon of the NN







How does it taste? Is this preferred over the BlueIce?

I take raw garlic everyday, but I just crush it and then pull it off in lil' strips and take it w/some water. I'm fine only if the pieces aren't too wide







I also cannot physically burp, so I don't get the repeats.

Oh, and I make the goat yogurt all the time and I never have a problem w/it or needing it to sit in the fridge more. But, I haven't had cow yogurt in a long time, & my hubby who can eat cow yogurt, thinks my stuff is gross.







I just cook some frozen raspberries, when they're done, I add some raw honey and then the yogurt







Its my breakfast everymorning, like 2 1/2 cups of it


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

For garlic, I just mince it and put it on my salad. I like it.









My dad is visiting and he brought along a cake he made, which he pretty much always does when he comes. Sigh, they are so good, but of course, with not doing any grains and sugar. I did have a few bites of the crust (which I always thought was the best part) and while it was good, it didn't taste as good as it used to. Hmmm, taste buds are changing.

Interestingly, he told me that he has a similar stomach thing as I do (huge bloating after eating), and that he has had it for the last few years. I am not sure what this means, but I thought it significant.

I have ordered BTVC and the Maker's Diet -- am curious to put more of this to practice.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommiska*
EBG - thanks so much for your suggestions! A couple of questions - what kind of coconut milk can you use? The only kind I seem to find here (I live in the UK) is canned - will that work?

As for the dairy and the nuts - I don't have any issues (that i know of!) with either dairy (anymore - I outgrew them as a toddler) or nuts. I just stopped eating peanuts and tree nuts when I started having kids to reduce the chances of them developing a nut allergy. I'm afraid if I do the nut flour thing, I'll expose dd to nuts and she'll develop an allergy to them, you know?

Does soaking them and dry roasting them make them less allergenic?

Has anyone else worried about this issue as well?

The dairy - I'm just guessing that dd is allergic to dairy, since it's such a common allergen and she's had such bad eczema. I'm thinking I'll try the homemade yoghurt and see how it goes...

Thanks again!


Coconut milk - try to get a brand that doesn't have any additives (preservatives of emulsifiers), it's hard. I'm sure you can find it online, but it might be more expensive. I just get Thai Kitchen it has coconut milk and guar gum. Gum is not too good but I use sparingly. For yogurt you might try to find a better one online and buy it in bulk. Wilderness family Naturals carry a good one but it's US based.

I also have eczema and so does my DD (2 and a half). I'm following the SCD and NT, loosely for her (DH doesn't let me put her on any diet). I give her CLO and sugar-free vitamins, try to minimize sugar and grain intake which is hard with this family. Needless to say everybody is fat and sick. She is eczema-free as of March. Sunshine helps (vitamin D) but you need cholesterol to form D. So bring on the fat!
Westonaprice.org lots of good info there.

I found that nuts make me itchy so I didn't do nuts for a few months. Since then I've discovered The Weston A Price Foundtaion and Nourishing Traditions and have tried soaked and roasted walnuts which were OK. NT says tat by soaking in salt water you neutralize the enzyme inhibitors that are in nuts grains and seeds and make it more digestable. But , some nuts are still not too good. Walnuts go rancid very quickly as they are high in omega 3 so only freshly shelled ones should be used and refrigerated. The best bet is Macademia nuts, the omega 3 and 6 ratio is 1:1.
Pine nuts and almonds are also low in n 6. Pecans are high in manganese which is great. Brazil nuts are high in selenium, one a day provides all the selenium you need.
Worst: cashews and peanuts -bad oils and mouldy.
If you try the flour, try the blanched almonds as the skins will irritate the gut. However, I'm not sure how they are blanched commercially.
So You can just do it yourself. I have some pine nuts roasting right now.
But if someody is allergic to nuts soaking them won't eliminate that issue, only the digestability problem. Allergy test can reveal true nut allergies. However, they don't detect intolerances and gut issues.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Garlic- I've read that supplements don't work as well. Fresh and raw is the key. I just chop them up and mix it in my food 3 times a day if I stay home.
I tried to swallow them witha spoonful of water but a minute later I got so sick I felt like I was gonna puke. Every time I swallowed a chopped up bulb. Especially on an empty stomach-bad idea. So I make sure I eat something with it.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

AHHHH I hate hate hate nap time. I just spend 2 hours putting DD down for a nap...and it's only her 2nd nap of the day so I can look forward to potentially doing this 2 or 3 more times today. I HOPE THIS DIET STARTS WORKING SOON!!!!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I just get Thai Kitchen it has coconut milk and guar gum. Gum is not too good but I use sparingly.

Thai Kitchen Organic Coconut Milk has recently changed their formulation. It now contains soy lecitin as well. The old cans have the black lid w/the words "Thai Kitchen" on it. The new formulation has gold lids.

I use Native Forest's Organic Coconut Milk--coconut, water and guar.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Thai Kitchen Organic Coconut Milk has recently changed their formulation. It now contains soy lecitin as well. The old cans have the black lid w/the words "Thai Kitchen" on it. The new formulation has gold lids.

I use Native Forest's Organic Coconut Milk--coconut, water and guar.

Thanks, good to know. I'm still using the black ones but will be careful not to buy the gold ones...


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

to nap time. I remember it so well when my 4 yr old was a babe. It sucked so much. Have you done allergy testing? Mine were useless, but, it might work for you, esp if you have a true allergy, & not just leaky gut crap.

I got my quercetin powder today to help w/allergies by Designs for Health. I ordered it through Bayro & didn't have to sign off w/a Dr (so silly). Very palatable, reminds we a tad of tumeric







Adult doage is 1/4 t, so shouldn't be hard to get less than that into my guys.

My 4 yr old is done vomiting, I think. He has huge dark circles under his eyes. Trying to get enzymes & EVCO into him.

Okay, off for a walk.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Can I talk about CLO?

I've been taking the Carlson;s capsules all this time but since they aren't high vitamin I decided to get the Garden of Life liquid (no caps available). It's lemon mint. Can I just say?

Oh my Goddess it is DISGUSTING!!!

I took it alone yesterday with a 24 hour yogurt chaser but the taste!!! I cannot get it out of my mouth. So I thought maybe if I made a sort of smoothie?

So today I did that and the whole smoothie tasted like that ucky CLO!!! How am I ever going to get this whole bottle down my gullet? It's so icky!!!


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Can I talk about CLO?

I've been taking the Carlson;s capsules all this time but since they aren't high vitamin I decided to get the Garden of Life liquid (no caps available). It's lemon mint. Can I just say?

Oh my Goddess it is DISGUSTING!!!

I took it alone yesterday with a 24 hour yogurt chaser but the taste!!! I cannot get it out of my mouth. So I thought maybe if I made a sort of smoothie?

So today I did that and the whole smoothie tasted like that ucky CLO!!! How am I ever going to get this whole bottle down my gullet? It's so icky!!!









No ideas for you, but I can commiserate. I bought the Nordic Naturals and it was HORRIBLE. Same thing. I put it in some OJ and the OJ was just one big oily fishy slimey glass of nasty. I then bought some Spectrum CLO and I don't mind it straight at all. It's really light-tasting. However, I haven't seen Spectrum recommended here at all, and I was about to order the Blue Ice brand for the higher amounts of Vitamins A & D. I'm afraid I'll run into the same problem, though!


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Question for you all: I've been doing supplements only for about two weeks now, mostly to see if I can clear up my mild acne (which I've had to different degrees my whole life) and hopefully help my 9-month old stop spitting up (it's a LOT less than it used to be, but it still happens a little, so I feel like that's an indication of something).

I'm taking enzymes, probiotics, CLO and CO. I haven't noticed a difference in either me or my son as far as the problems I mentioned, but this past week I cut wayyyyyyyyy back on everything but the CLO because my son was having MAJOR sleep issues. He's back to normal sleeping now, and I'm going to work my way back up to the regular amounts of enzymes, probiotics, and CO.

I just got the SCD book from the library and will read it through, but I'm wondering if just the supplements alone will heal me and my son. I did several elimination diets when my son was smaller to try to find the source of his spitting up (and it seems like dairy and soy were major problems, but he still spits up anyway, just worse with the dairy and soy), and I just don't want to have to do a diet again if I don't have to!

FWIW I eat a vegan diet now, with very little junk, though I'm obviously doing CLO and would consider the butter if I thought my son wouldn't react to it. I also just bought some kefir grains and plan on trying them with almond milk and coconut milk.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? You guys are all so helpful.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Can I just use commercial goat yogurt for my yogurt starter? The price on the SCD dairy free starter is ridiculous! $30 plus $15 for shipping, and with my luck DD won't even be able to tolerate it! Or what about using regular yogurt and then using a bit of the resulting batch to culture another batch (and throwing the 1st batch out), which I would think would have only a very very tiny bit of cow dairy in it. I know you're not supposed to do that but could I at least do it for a trial before I go blow $45 on this yogurt starter?

I really don't know what good allergy testing would do--the only common allergens I'm eating are eggs and nuts...actually I just started nuts up today after a 5 day break so I suppose that could be the cause of today's issues, or it could just be the fact that she's decided she only needs 9 hours of sleep at night and her 1 1/2 hours of daytime naps are not enough so she's overtired. I guess if tomorrow sucks again I will have to take out the nuts and see if that helps.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
No ideas for you, but I can commiserate. I bought the Nordic Naturals and it was HORRIBLE. Same thing. I put it in some OJ and the OJ was just one big oily fishy slimey glass of nasty. I then bought some Spectrum CLO and I don't mind it straight at all. It's really light-tasting. However, I haven't seen Spectrum recommended here at all, and I was about to order the Blue Ice brand for the higher amounts of Vitamins A & D. I'm afraid I'll run into the same problem, though!

I've got orange flavored Blue Ice and it isn't bad. Not great but not terrible, either. I've heard that the orange is the worst of their flavors, though, and the mint and cinnamon are better. I'm going to order some (mint and cinnamon both) today so I can post an update on one of the flavors in a week or so.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Question for you all: I've been doing supplements only for about two weeks now, mostly to see if I can clear up my mild acne (which I've had to different degrees my whole life) and hopefully help my 9-month old stop spitting up (it's a LOT less than it used to be, but it still happens a little, so I feel like that's an indication of something).

I'm taking enzymes, probiotics, CLO and CO. I haven't noticed a difference in either me or my son as far as the problems I mentioned, but this past week I cut wayyyyyyyyy back on everything but the CLO because my son was having MAJOR sleep issues. He's back to normal sleeping now, and I'm going to work my way back up to the regular amounts of enzymes, probiotics, and CO.

I just got the SCD book from the library and will read it through, but I'm wondering if just the supplements alone will heal me and my son. I did several elimination diets when my son was smaller to try to find the source of his spitting up (and it seems like dairy and soy were major problems, but he still spits up anyway, just worse with the dairy and soy), and I just don't want to have to do a diet again if I don't have to!

FWIW I eat a vegan diet now, with very little junk, though I'm obviously doing CLO and would consider the butter if I thought my son wouldn't react to it. I also just bought some kefir grains and plan on trying them with almond milk and coconut milk.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? You guys are all so helpful.

Enzymes alone might work, at least according to the book "Enzymes for Autism"...the author says that a lot of kids with autism apparently have leaky guts and the enzymes heal them. www.enzymestuff.com is the website that goes with the book.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Question for you all: I've been doing supplements only for about two weeks now, mostly to see if I can clear up my mild acne (which I've had to different degrees my whole life) and hopefully help my 9-month old stop spitting up (it's a LOT less than it used to be, but it still happens a little, so I feel like that's an indication of something).

I'm taking enzymes, probiotics, CLO and CO. I haven't noticed a difference in either me or my son as far as the problems I mentioned, but this past week I cut wayyyyyyyyy back on everything but the CLO because my son was having MAJOR sleep issues. He's back to normal sleeping now, and I'm going to work my way back up to the regular amounts of enzymes, probiotics, and CO.

I just got the SCD book from the library and will read it through, but I'm wondering if just the supplements alone will heal me and my son. I did several elimination diets when my son was smaller to try to find the source of his spitting up (and it seems like dairy and soy were major problems, but he still spits up anyway, just worse with the dairy and soy), and I just don't want to have to do a diet again if I don't have to!

FWIW I eat a vegan diet now, with very little junk, though I'm obviously doing CLO and would consider the butter if I thought my son wouldn't react to it. I also just bought some kefir grains and plan on trying them with almond milk and coconut milk.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? You guys are all so helpful.

Hey New Mama,
It sounds like our situations are really different (my acne is pretty severe) but I found that I had to go through the SCD diet to get any results - right now it looks like things are pointing towards all grains (including corn and potatoes







) I'm doing 90,000 units Vit A/9,000 units Vit D CLO, as well as probiotics, zinc and glutamine. I imagine this will only help you if you think the acne and spitting up are related to the same thing. The other mamas here will have much more info if your babe's issues are more likely to be GI on their own.


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Can I talk about CLO?

I've been taking the Carlson;s capsules all this time but since they aren't high vitamin I decided to get the Garden of Life liquid (no caps available). It's lemon mint. Can I just say?

Oh my Goddess it is DISGUSTING!!!

I took it alone yesterday with a 24 hour yogurt chaser but the taste!!! I cannot get it out of my mouth. So I thought maybe if I made a sort of smoothie?

So today I did that and the whole smoothie tasted like that ucky CLO!!! How am I ever going to get this whole bottle down my gullet? It's so icky!!!









Uh, I know. I'm on day 3 of taking that nastiness, and it casts a palor over my entire day, knowing I have to take it. I have figured out though that if I mix it with apple cider and stir constantly between gulps (to keep it suspended) it goes down easier. I swear, the cup that I take it in has been designated my clo cup because _even after washing_ it smells like fish!
Thanks for the advice about not doing the smoothie - I was sure that was going to be my ace up my sleeve







Glad I didn't waste a smoothie.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Uh, I know. I'm on day 3 of taking that nastiness, and it casts a palor over my entire day, knowing I have to take it. I have figured out though that if I mix it with apple cider and stir constantly between gulps (to keep it suspended) it goes down easier. I swear, the cup that I take it in has been designated my clo cup because _even after washing_ it smells like fish!
Thanks for the advice about not doing the smoothie - I was sure that was going to be my ace up my sleeve







Glad I didn't waste a smoothie.

Here's a thought then: ACV and CLO mixed? With smoothie chaser?

Can we take ACV on SCD?






















"All acronyms all the time!"


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Can I just use commercial goat yogurt for my yogurt starter? The price on the SCD dairy free starter is ridiculous! $30 plus $15 for shipping, and with my luck DD won't even be able to tolerate it! Or what about using regular yogurt and then using a bit of the resulting batch to culture another batch (and throwing the 1st batch out), which I would think would have only a very very tiny bit of cow dairy in it. I know you're not supposed to do that but could I at least do it for a trial before I go blow $45 on this yogurt starter?

I really don't know what good allergy testing would do--the only common allergens I'm eating are eggs and nuts...actually I just started nuts up today after a 5 day break so I suppose that could be the cause of today's issues, or it could just be the fact that she's decided she only needs 9 hours of sleep at night and her 1 1/2 hours of daytime naps are not enough so she's overtired. I guess if tomorrow sucks again I will have to take out the nuts and see if that helps.

All the goat yougarts I have seen have additives. I used the sheep yougart as a starter for my goat milk. It is expensive. You could also do yougormet. It has milk in the starter but again would be a trace ammount compared to starting it w/yogurt.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
No ideas for you, but I can commiserate. I bought the Nordic Naturals and it was HORRIBLE. Same thing. I put it in some OJ and the OJ was just one big oily fishy slimey glass of nasty. I then bought some Spectrum CLO and I don't mind it straight at all. It's really light-tasting. However, I haven't seen Spectrum recommended here at all, and I was about to order the Blue Ice brand for the higher amounts of Vitamins A & D. I'm afraid I'll run into the same problem, though!

I find the blue ice plain to be very lightly flavored. We took a lot of clo as children and my mother tried some flavored a couple of times to see if that would make it go down easier. It was always worse. I hear that the flavors are much better these days but I'll stick with the plain. Oh and never put it in a smoothie. I made that mistake once. No ammount of fruit flavor will completely cover up fish oil.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Can I talk about CLO?

I've been taking the Carlson;s capsules all this time but since they aren't high vitamin I decided to get the Garden of Life liquid (no caps available). It's lemon mint. Can I just say?

Oh my Goddess it is DISGUSTING!!!

I took it alone yesterday with a 24 hour yogurt chaser but the taste!!! I cannot get it out of my mouth. So I thought maybe if I made a sort of smoothie?

So today I did that and the whole smoothie tasted like that ucky CLO!!! How am I ever going to get this whole bottle down my gullet? It's so icky!!!









Same here.... first I tried Carlsons and then switched to GOL and was surprised how yuckie it was. But I think it's because they don't remove the taste only try to mask it with the lemon and mint which doesn't really work. I was thinking how am I going to finish that bottle, was it rancid etc etc. It's not rancid CLO should taste slightly fishy but not too fishy. Anyway the more you take the less disgusting it is. So I finished it...However, I went back to Carlson's. I just can't afford the other brands.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok lets talk poop for a minuite. DD and I are having pale softish poops for the past few days. I'm still really feeling die off from the CO. Could this be related? I know pale poop is a celiac thing but we haven't had any grains for 10+ weeks.

I've completely stopped taking enzymes. I just can't take the daily stomach ache from them. I was really hopeful that they would be part of the key to healing us but if I can't eat them...

I am making keifer, beet Kvass, and creme fresch to make into cultured butter right now. Go me!







(and of course yogurt)

I made up a batch of yogurt the other day and it came out all whey. Anyone know why??? It is all this yellow liquid. Almost nothing white/solid at all. How could this happen?

Jane, do you know how long I should finish my keifer? Is 24 extra hours enough? Do I have to make it for 24 hours with the grains first? I checked out Dom's site last night but couldn't figure it out from there.

DD and I woke up at 4ish am in a puddle. After trying to get her back to sleep for a while I decided to change us both. Never did get us back to sleep and we got up for the day when DH's alarm went off at 6. (usually get up at 8). We then took a nap from 12 to 3. It is amazing how unrestful a 3 hour nap is when you are sleeping with a toddler who shrieks everytime the nipple comes out of her mouth. I'm thinking her teeth are moving again. Man this kid teethes like a glaicer...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
All the goat yougarts I have seen have additives. I used the sheep yougart as a starter for my goat milk. It is expensive. You could also do yougormet. It has milk in the starter but again would be a trace ammount compared to starting it w/yogurt.

Hmmm...where did you get the sheep yogurt?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Jane, do you know how long I should finish my keifer? Is 24 extra hours enough? Do I have to make it for 24 hours with the grains first? I checked out Dom's site last night but couldn't figure it out from there.


Not that I'm an expert...but I read somewhere you are supposed to do kefir for 24 hrs with the grains in and then another 24 in the frig.

Do you mind if I ask why you're doing kefir? Are you feeling like you're not making enough progress? I've thought about doing kefir, either goat milk (if DD can tolerate it) or juice kefir. I know it's illegal, but I feel like we're not making any progress as is so what can it hurt?


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:

I made up a batch of yogurt the other day and it came out all whey. Anyone know why??? It is all this yellow liquid. Almost nothing white/solid at all. How could this happen?
this just happened to me too, patty. maybe it was too hot? it smelled yeasty. ick.

need to go but want to respond to more!

i couldn't do the enzymes either. i wish i could. i think.

and i'm still attached at the nipples for naps too. i'm sorry!


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

i'm thinking about kefir too (i give it to dh each morning) as i, too, am feeling crappier than when i started. feeling no progress. sigh. encourage me!


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

i'm insane; i just added "i think it's working" to my sig, and now i'm doubting the whole thing again.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Two reasons to try keifer right now.
To make more progress and my cooler yogurt maker broke and all I can make at once right now is 1 qt and we are going through a gallon or more a week so I have 3/4 of a gallon not fermented yet for this week and I'm getting more tomorrow (it is a once a week pick up thing for raw milk). Keifer ferments at room temp so I can do a bunch of that at once. Plus I knew that my neighbor had grains she could give me so that makes it super easy to do.

Who knows but I have become convinced that I shouldn't be so frightened of the yeasts in the keifer. We'll see if I'm right.

And I've been reading that imunology thread. WOW!!! I've learned some stuff that hopefully will help me get even better.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

hugs to all you mamas! I just wanted to point out (and I know you'll love me for this!) that it doesn't matter what "common" allergens you are eating. If you have a leaky gut you can have allergies to anything. I personally know someone who was blood tested and had allergies to almost every veggie including lettuce. We had allergies to peas, carrots avacados, bananas, plums etc. It's not really about finding the allergies, it's about healing the gut to prevent the leakage. The allergies aren't really an issue-the damaged gut is. The SCD is really amazing for this!


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Enzymes alone might work, at least according to the book "Enzymes for Autism"...the author says that a lot of kids with autism apparently have leaky guts and the enzymes heal them. www.enzymestuff.com is the website that goes with the book.

I perused the site (thank you for the link) but I'm unclear...if doing all these supplements seems to clear up my skin and/or help my son stop spitting up, do I need to continue taking the enzymes forever? Or is the thought that I'll be getting my gut back to a healthy state and it will continue to be re-balanced on its own?

I will continue the zinc, CLO, CO and probiotics (either in pill form -- expensive! -- or kefir/yogurt) but it would be nice if I could drop the enzymes eventually.

Am I getting ahead of myself, lol?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
If you only have lactose intolerance, you can eat the yogurt and the cheeses. You could also be allergic to casein-in this case even the yogurt won't help. However, you can make yogurt with coconut milk, you just need to add honey for the bacteria to eat. You can also try an SCD recommended probiotic first. As the gut heals many people are able add dairy in later stages. Or try goat's milk as the milk proteins consist of smaller globules that are easier to digest.

Yes, DS is pretty allergic to cow casein... like I said even the butter oil he can't do. And goat's is fine, he drinks at least 2 cups/day of goat yogurt. I learned yesterday why the proteins and fats are smaller, it's b/c goats have one stomach like us, and cows have 3! So their milk is more like human milk.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
That looks like a good one. Do you mean the amount of omega 3 in this one is not good or the Blue Ice?
The one you linked to looks pretty cost effective too.

Sorry I meant that a very high amount of omega 3 to consume in low vitamin CLO is not good for the body. If you need to take like 10 tablespoons of Nordic Naturals to get 20,000IU of recommended vitamin A.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I perused the site (thank you for the link) but I'm unclear...if doing all these supplements seems to clear up my skin and/or help my son stop spitting up, do I need to continue taking the enzymes forever? Or is the thought that I'll be getting my gut back to a healthy state and it will continue to be re-balanced on its own?

I will continue the zinc, CLO, CO and probiotics (either in pill form -- expensive! -- or kefir/yogurt) but it would be nice if I could drop the enzymes eventually.

Am I getting ahead of myself, lol?

I'm not real sure, but from what I've gathered, it seems that once you are healed you probably won't need the enzymes. I guess after a few months of taking them if your symptoms go away you can start eliminating them and see what happens. The book says most people's guts heal in 3-6 months unless they are severely injured. The book does mention that you might still need them with certain foods. I'm sure it also depends on how you eat, too--if your eating habits aren't really good it might be hard/harder to keep your gut healthy--JMO.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok lets talk poop for a minuite. DD and I are having pale softish poops for the past few days. I'm still really feeling die off from the CO. Could this be related? I know pale poop is a celiac thing but we haven't had any grains for 10+ weeks.

I've completely stopped taking enzymes. I just can't take the daily stomach ache from them. I was really hopeful that they would be part of the key to healing us but if I can't eat them...

I made up a batch of yogurt the other day and it came out all whey. Anyone know why??? It is all this yellow liquid. Almost nothing white/solid at all. How could this happen?

RE: pale poops
This is bile related. The bile digests fats and makes your stools brown. If you have increased your fats (CLO, CO) your body could not be keeping up. EFLF recommends the ACV, 1/2 t. before meals to stimulate bile.

RE: enzymes
Yeah, that's my issue with DS too. I know high proteases would help him immensely. I credit them with my own progress. But he cannot even handle a tiny sprinkle of them. I'm scared to try again... massive hyperness!! I'm hoping that our other regimes will knock down his bacterial population a bit so I can try again (such a masochist). Are you trying just a sprinkle? I know it's hard to be patient and methodical with enzymes. I have to keep records and lists or else I totally forget what I'm doing when.

RE: yellow yogurt liquid
This happened to me when it got too hot. Also when my raw milk was older, it already had some ambient bacterial growth going in it.

Caedmyn was right on the kefir culturing to reduce lactose. 24 hrs with grains, 24 hrs without.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I just got the SCD book from the library and will read it through, but I'm wondering if just the supplements alone will heal me and my son. I did several elimination diets when my son was smaller to try to find the source of his spitting up (and it seems like dairy and soy were major problems, but he still spits up anyway, just worse with the dairy and soy), and I just don't want to have to do a diet again if I don't have to!

FWIW I eat a vegan diet now, with very little junk, though I'm obviously doing CLO and would consider the butter if I thought my son wouldn't react to it. I also just bought some kefir grains and plan on trying them with almond milk and coconut milk.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? You guys are all so helpful.









Yes, you are at the bargaining stage, "I only have a few issues, maybe I don't have to do the diet!"

And it's possible you don't! No one can answer that but you. And the trials and tribulations you will go through in order to arrive at that answer will be the best proving ground. The hard thing is that we are still a relatively small group. We don't have a lot of protocols in place that produce healing according to certain parameters, it's so individual. I think the best you can do is figure out for yourself the healing things you uniquely are lacking and try them one at a time.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:

The book says most people's guts heal in 3-6 months unless they are severely injured.
which book says this?

we've been on the diet for a month and a half. the girls still can't even really tolerate cooked fruit (although the fact that i gave them a ton since they were enjoying it probably doesn't help).

can someone repeat for me that by staying on the diet i'm doing the right thing--and healing _is_ taking place--even if i feed the girls things like fruit and nut products that they seem to have reactions to? please reassure me (again)!

i'm just having the hardest time for some reason. i tasted dh's kefir smoothie this morning--ick.

you know, i guess i'm having a hard time because i'm trying to heal three very differently damaged guts. and i can't figure out exactly how i should be taking care of myself while helping the girls. i wrote down everything i ate yesterday and i'm eating much less than 2000 cal/day with two babes who weigh about 20 pounds and nurse frequently through out the day. and i haven't lost weight, and i'm obviously active taking care of these two little girls. so something is just not right here, and i really don't know what it is.

healing in 3-6 months gives me great hope!

you know what would be cool--posting some tricks or great simple snacks we've discovered.........

and i'm sorry i'm no help myself and just coming on here and complaining all the time.......

(and i ordered pascalite clay and am very excited for it to get here!)


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Okay, my quick question of the night, can die-off cause vomitting??

Today my 4 yr old puked twice and has been miserable. We also stopped the honey/fruit thing a couple of days ago....

Coinky-dink? I think not. Anyone else have some info on this?? And what can I do to help him, poor lil' guy. We've been doing the epsom salt baths, but he's really not into enzymes right now (couldn't blame him), anything else??

CLO!! Wow Jane, that stuff looks amazing!! And cheap.







So, if I'm going by the highest amt necessary, I should be taking 2T of that stuff you recommended, 20,000 I.U. and 2000 I.U. (for nursing mamas) as opposed to a half gallon of the NN







How does it taste? Is this preferred over the BlueIce?

Yes I have heard of vomiting but it also could be a virus too.

I haven't gotten the Radiant Life CLO yet... maybe today's mail. Will post on taste ASAP









2 teaspoons of it will equal 20,000IU of A and 2,000IU of D for pg/bf'ing and also that is the amount EFLF recommends for healing.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tedescokid*
Thanks for the link. Follow up question - we have raw butter right now. Is it enough for them to be eating in stuff - bread, on noodles, etc. Or do I need to get more into them? Wondering about the whole Activator X thing. Tonya

This is a very good question. That I would like an answer to as well! How much grass fed butter would be equal to the 1/2 tsp. of butter oil that is recommended. I don't know. Let's ask on the NT Mamas thread...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tedescokid*
Does anyone know if I can take Candex if I am nursing ds 1x day?

Yes, this would be an excellent choice for bf'ing.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
This is a very good question. That I would like an answer to as well! How much grass fed butter would be equal to the 1/2 tsp. of butter oil that is recommended. I don't know. Let's ask on the NT Mamas thread...

Just thinking out loud...

If it takes approx. 8lbs of cream (fed rapidly growing grass) to make one bottle of butter oil of 96 doses.

8lbs x 16oz =128

128/96 = 1.33 oz cream is one dose

Anyone know how much cream it takes to make butter?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sbgrace*
I have a quick question (I hope it is ok to just jump in...) My son has autism and a history of antibiotic usage (took me a while to learn to question our drs. unfortunately). I suspect yeast issues (we are hoping to do a stool and urine test if insurance finally approves). I am starting the SCD diet (had been gf/cf and on probiotics for about 9 months with no noticeable improvement). His dr. who is wanting to run the tests for yeast and other issues said that if he comes back with yeast we will talk about nystatin. I know my sister's baby had thrush and after genetian violet didn't get it they did lots of nystatin and finally diflucan.
My question which will just show my ignorance maybe (please be kind to me...I am trying my best to learn). If I am going to do the SCD would it maybe jump start the yeast die off to do nystatin or even diflucan? Are these bad if you are going to do all the healthy stuff to keep the yeast away?

Welcome









Most ASD kids have digestive issues. It could be yeast or bacteria or both. Or viruses.

I highly recommend reading DeFelice's book: www.enzymestuff.com and see the page about yeast and bacteria. Enzymes can be used very effectively against yeast and have none of the side effects of Nystatin or Diflucan. Some people have used them though, might be discussion on Pecanbread Yahoo group, but personally I'd rather go natural.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I haven't gotten the Radiant Life CLO yet... maybe today's mail. Will post on taste ASAP









2 teaspoons of it will equal 20,000IU of A and 2,000IU of D for pg/bf'ing and also that is the amount EFLF recommends for healing.

The WAPF site recommends _as high as_ 90,000 of A for healing - I wonder why the huge disparity? I'm treating myself with that high limit for a few weeks, though I'm not sure that I'm eating enough butter with it to synergize all of it. I'm doing as much as I possibly can, so we'll see.

I think Radient Life is the brand I take - it's yucky, but it sounds like it doesn't get much better


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
JaneS--I'm going to start goat yogurt next week. Any tips on making it? I've heard that it (raw goat's milk) needs to "age" in the frig for a day or two to make good yogurt, and also that if the milk is too old (more than a few days) it tastes goaty. Also, what should I be looking for to tell if DD is tolerating it? She still has all her allergy symptoms, even had a bit of bloody poop yesterday after 2 weeks of no bloody poop









firefaery--how come all the supplements you recommend taste nasty?







The MSM powder is nasty, the liquid zinc tastes horrible, even the Pharmax probiotics are awful! I don't know how you manage to take all of them--if I stick them in a smoothie they just make the smoothie taste yucky, too.

Our raw goat's milk lasts a long time before turning more than a week. And since it's shipped from PA, it's already aged a couple days by the time it gets to me so I don't know the answer to that ?. I find that it makes better yogurt than cow's, smoother.

I thought if zinc tasted bad that meant you didn't need it?


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Quote:

Anyone know how much cream it takes to make butter?
I think it is something like one quart of heavy cream makes half pound of butter.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
which book says this?

we've been on the diet for a month and a half. the girls still can't even really tolerate cooked fruit (although the fact that i gave them a ton since they were enjoying it probably doesn't help).

can someone repeat for me that by staying on the diet i'm doing the right thing--and healing _is_ taking place--even if i feed the girls things like fruit and nut products that they seem to have reactions to? please reassure me (again)!

i'm just having the hardest time for some reason. i tasted dh's kefir smoothie this morning--ick.

you know, i guess i'm having a hard time because i'm trying to heal three very differently damaged guts. and i can't figure out exactly how i should be taking care of myself while helping the girls. i wrote down everything i ate yesterday and i'm eating much less than 2000 cal/day with two babes who weigh about 20 pounds and nurse frequently through out the day. and i haven't lost weight, and i'm obviously active taking care of these two little girls. so something is just not right here, and i really don't know what it is.

healing in 3-6 months gives me great hope!

you know what would be cool--posting some tricks or great simple snacks we've discovered.........

and i'm sorry i'm no help myself and just coming on here and complaining all the time.......

(and i ordered pascalite clay and am very excited for it to get here!)

"Enzymes for Autism" says it (gut healing in 3-6 months) and also Jordan Rubin's books imply it, I'm not sure if he comes right out and says it though. But...both of those plans use enzymes so I am not sure if that would make a difference as to length of time if you are not able to use enzymes.

I know, it is hard not to get discouraged. I don't really feel like we are making any progress, either, although I am finally up to 1/2 cap of Digest Gold with every meal/snack but breakfast, so I am hopeful the enzymes will help...that and the probiotics that I've been taking for a week. I just keep telling myself to give it another month, plus I remind myself that if this doesn't work, I have no idea what else I can even do, so I better figure out how to make this work! That may not be very helpful, but that's what I do.

Snacks...OK these aren't necessarily simple but I make a big batch and then I'm good for a week or so. Applesauce, pumpkin pie filling (recipe on pecanbread.com, I use butternut squash), deviled eggs, nut butter muffins, and nut butter or banana pancakes (1 banana, 2 eggs, cinnamon--the recipe calls for 1 egg, no cinnamon but I don't particularly like plain bananas and they taste much less banana-y this way)--I just make extras when I make them for breakfast or whatever and then eat them cold later.

Tips...make extra of everything as it usually doesn't take much if any extra time to make a bigger batch and saves that much more work for later


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I thought if zinc tasted bad that meant you didn't need it?

The thing is, it's got other minerals besides zinc in it so I don't know if I don't need the zinc or the other minerals make it taste nasty. Maybe I'll just contact the company and ask them if it is supposed to taste nasty!


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

So I started eating peanut butter (storebought) and coconut cream concentrate this week and now dd and I have undigested food and loose stools. Now what do I do? I am so sick of chicken and chicken soup (not to mention forgot to put the stock away last night







There goes that $20.) I need more veggies. Seriously craving carbs right now.

Could this semi-diarrhea be die-off?

What else can I eat? We can't do eggs. If I take away nut butters, and coconut, I am really at a loss. I so want a huge big crunchy salad.

Enzymes don't seem to bother me or dd. I've been taking huge amounts of all 3 Houston's before meals and in-between. Now just have to remember to chug down some garlic too.

What is everyone's opinion on grapefruit seed extract?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nonniecita*
Hi!
Not sure if I need to be here but thought you all may be able to help me. I guess like most everybody, I occasionally have gas. For maybe the last month, I've had off and on really bad gas. Sometimes, it's like it's neverending. For instance, I had horrible smelling gas it seemed like constantly for 2 days till this morning. I'm fine now. My last bm was last night and it was a pale brown color (sorry!) I could feel the gas in my belly. I've been eating kimchee lately, could there be a connection? About 2 weeks ago, I had really bad diarrhea overnight, I went 20 times, it was water-like and also had sulfur like burps that day too..it was gross. Any ideas?
Thanks so much,
Michelle

Yes the kimchee can definately have a lot to do with that... was it raw? Cabbage contains a lot of sulfur compounds.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
So I started eating peanut butter (storebought) and coconut cream concentrate this week and now dd and I have undigested food and loose stools. Now what do I do? I am so sick of chicken and chicken soup (not to mention forgot to put the stock away last night







There goes that $20.) I need more veggies. Seriously craving carbs right now.

Could this semi-diarrhea be die-off?

What else can I eat? We can't do eggs. If I take away nut butters, and coconut, I am really at a loss. I so want a huge big crunchy salad.

Enzymes don't seem to bother me or dd. I've been taking huge amounts of all 3 Houston's before meals and in-between. Now just have to remember to chug down some garlic too.

What is everyone's opinion on grapefruit seed extract?

Grapefruit seed extract--someone posted an article about a study on GSE. Basically they tested several different brands and every brand but one was effective on whatever it was they were testing...but they also tested every brand for chemical residues from processing, and every brand but the one that didn't work had resides. So they were saying that maybe it wasn't the GSE itself that was working, but the chemical residues. Sorry, that's a bit vague, but anyway, it was enough to convince me to stay away from GSE.

I think PB is supposed to be one of the hardest-to-digest nut butters. What about trying almond butter or pecan butter, which are supposed to be the easiest to digest (especially if you soak the nuts NT style and make your own nut butter). I introduced squash pretty early and that helped a lot with carb cravings. pecanbread.com has a pumpkin pie filling recipe that I really like for using up leftover squash. Or what about fruits? I eat a ton of applesauce, and banana pancakes aren't too bad, either. pecanbread.com also has some egg replacement suggestions that might work so you can make pancakes.

I can never figure out whether an upset stomach or whatever is die off or a new food that doesn't agree with me, either, so I'd love to know the answer to that one too!


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
The thing is, it's got other minerals besides zinc in it so I don't know if I don't need the zinc or the other minerals make it taste nasty. Maybe I'll just contact the company and ask them if it is supposed to taste nasty!

I'd be surprised if a company would admit that their product is supposed to taste nasty, lol.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Yes, you are at the bargaining stage, "I only have a few issues, maybe I don't have to do the diet!"


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I love the taste and creaminess of peanut butter but it is so darned high in both phytates and oxalates, both of which will reduce your mineral absorption. I used to let Frederick have some, but I now pretty much bribe him with homemade almond butter and honey.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I LOVE peanut butter, but it is soooo bad for you for so many reasons. I just allow a jar every couple of weeks in my home and put my head in the sand. They are really moldy (as are cashews) and can aggravate a mold allergy/issue. They are also not truly a nut and many people have issues with legumes.

For the zinc-if you can taste it it means you aren't deficient, but it doesn't mean that you don't need it therapeutically. If it tastes metallic it is likely the zinc. Sorry! I don't even taste this stuff any more!

Ideally the cells in the gut regenerate every 3-7 days depending on the individual. So a steady gut healing regime employing everything you have at your disposal (enzymes, nutrition and supplements) could really heal you very quickly. There are no concrete answers and so many variables. You could potentially heal the gut lining, but not rid your body entirely of a fungal overgrowth, or a parasitic infection or have something else going on... It is trial and error but it CAN be done. It's just a matter of really paying attention to your body and modifying accordingly. That's what we're all here for!


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

I started a thread for healing the gut success stories but there were no replies. I know a few of you (JaneS for one) have talked about your success but other than that I haven't heard about a lot. I would really love to hear what is working for you and what you have improved/cured/however you want to put it, lol. This thread is full of lots of informative questions and discussions of particular journeys, but at this point I need to hear/see more evidence of what is working for people. Any stories?


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## nonniecita (Jul 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Yes the kimchee can definately have a lot to do with that... was it raw? Cabbage contains a lot of sulfur compounds.

It was raw, I got it at a health foods store,
can't remember the name, though.
I haven't eaten it in a few days and the gas is much better, but still there








I've never had this problem before. No more kimchi for me (for now!)
Michelle


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## nonniecita (Jul 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
I started a thread for healing the gut success stories but there were no replies. I know a few of you (JaneS for one) have talked about your success but other than that I haven't heard about a lot. I would really love to hear what is working for you and what you have improved/cured/however you want to put it, lol. This thread is full of lots of informative questions and discussions of particular journeys, but at this point I need to hear/see more evidence of what is working for people. Any stories?










That would be very interesting, esp. to hear Jane's whole story.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

I have a raw milk question. Does it smell and taste a little odd (maybe like it is old milk) even when fresh? I get it at the organic food coop and even the day I buy it it just seems a little off. Is this normal or is it not fresh enough? My ds likes it but nobody else in the family will use it. I tolerate it knowing it is supposed to be good for me. I am not a milk fan anyway.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
For the zinc-if you can taste it it means you aren't deficient, but it doesn't mean that you don't need it therapeutically. If it tastes metallic it is likely the zinc. Sorry! I don't even taste this stuff any more!


Do you know if there would be any benefit to taking zinc (picolinate) in capsules? There is no way I am going to get the liquid stuff down every day.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I made yogurt, and while 24 hours aren't quite up, I just checked it and it is rather runny. And a bit yellow on top. What went wrong?


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

I tried the CLO with ACV - I mixed it together vigorously like salad dressing, drank it like a shot, then chased it with fruit jello (would have been a smoothie but we're out of yogurt). Then guzzled water. I think I can manage it if I do it like that - maybe less ACV though, I did 1:1.

The yogurt, I forget what runniness means (but I ought to know, I've done that before), but the yellow on top is just the cream separating (I assume it's cow?). Sometimes it will gel more when refridgerated. If not, maybe drain the whey out and it will be thicker.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Oh, also? How bad do you think it might be if say hypothetically 3 lbs of ground beef (organic! grassfed!) were left out (wrapped, unopened) for about 9 or 10 hours? Would you (hypothetically) still cook it and eat it?


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Oh, also? How bad do you think it might be if say hypothetically 3 lbs of ground beef (organic! grassfed!) were left out (wrapped, unopened) for about 9 or 10 hours? Would you (hypothetically) still cook it and eat it?

Nope. Not worth $20+ to have a potential $100 EACH co-pay at the ER. Or, diarrhea/vomiting as a co-sleeping family.







Probably woundn't kill ya if you cook it; most E-coli is killed if there were any present. You know they intentionally age beef either moist or dry, and I was told the "mold provides unique flavors". But, no thanks. I have tossed $10 of organic boneless chicken breasts more times than dh knows







:, because I forget to freeze it.

Especially not ground meat which has more surface area exposed to oxygen, and thus spoils faster.







Sorry. Don't you just want to kick yourself? I am so aggravated when I forget the meat in the refrigerator and we don't eat it in time.

Pat


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Does organic unflavored gelatin exist?


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

chasmyn--i'd freeze the beef for 14 days because i am cheap. (well, i'm not really cheap, but seeing as i spend all my money on food and still feel i can't affrd all we need....) i think i read in eflf that pathogens in beef are killed after it's been frozen for 14 days. not that what happens when you leave it out for a few hours is necessarily the same thing--but it's what i would do. hypothetically. so maybe not really.









ff--thanks for this info and support.

Quote:

Ideally the cells in the gut regenerate every 3-7 days depending on the individual. So a steady gut healing regime employing everything you have at your disposal (enzymes, nutrition and supplements) could really heal you very quickly. There are no concrete answers and so many variables. You could potentially heal the gut lining, but not rid your body entirely of a fungal overgrowth, or a parasitic infection or have something else going on... It is trial and error but it CAN be done. It's just a matter of really paying attention to your body and modifying accordingly. That's what we're all here for!
i'm thinking that something that's going wrong with us is due to the nuts. and i'm not sure how to do this diet without nuts. without going nuts. haha.

i've thought about gse but got scared, particularly bc i'm nursing. i've had the stuff in my basket twice and put it back.

i haven't really had enzymes for almost two months, i guess, since i've had no raw foods. so maybe that's what's so messed up with me. maybe the girls get enzymes whenever they nurse? is that true? they still have faint scars from their diaper rash when i took the enzymes (less than 1/4 capsule per meal). i'm planning to try again when the pascalite clay comes. i also just checked out the radiant life site and am thinking about their enzymes too.... i'm going to get their clo and see if the girls will take it, tho they're fine with the garden of life lemon mint usually. i'd like to get more vitamins in less oil, of course. and should i be taking it at the same time i take the activator x? gah. so many expensive mistakes! let's write a book when we're all healed!

tips--i put roe in the fish casserole. i call them fish balls and the girls search for them.

gotta run


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
I made yogurt, and while 24 hours aren't quite up, I just checked it and it is rather runny. And a bit yellow on top. What went wrong?

It is runny untill you put it in the fridge and let it cool for 8 hours. I have found that letting it go for 36 hours makes is much firmer.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Does organic unflavored gelatin exist?

I couldn't find it when I googled. From what I understand, pesticides are stored in the fat of plants and animals. So, my priority is to buy organic fats (olive oil, canola, and butter) and organic meats. And I buy organic vegetables *if* they are conventionally high in pesticides: http://www.foodnews.org/reportcard.php This link explains which produce are highest and lowest in pesticide residue. Organic fats are very expensive, so I don't worry as much about ingredients which are not organic, such as gelatin.

HTH, Pat


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

We have had great success with the diet. My kids and I all had significant allergies and they each had very different behavioral and neurological issues. After a couple months on the diet there was a huge change. Dd's teeth are also much better (they came in without enamel) Still working on the teeth thing, but you can see a distinct line where the enamel has started to form. Really bizarre.

I got rid of horribly systemic yeast, acne, depression, fatigue, irritability and eczema. I stopped losing hair and slept better. I got diagnosed with celiac disease (finally) and I lost a ton of weight.

Ds is no longer on the autism spectrum, dd isn't but hasn't been diagnosed off of it yet. She is a very different kid. She never slept (neither did) and now they do. Their terrible rashes are gone. Cradle cap is gone. Hyperactivity-gone. They now listen. Dd started speaking and developing new skills as soon as the diet was introduced. SHe is no longer a cranky nightmare child. Ds can sit and read. Our lives are completely different. I am very lucky because I can in to this last year with practitioners who totally got it. I had alot of info off the bat about supplements and things. I had already been doing CLO, L glutamine, Pascalite, zinc, MSM, and probiotics. I had been doing enzymes, but once I tried the Houston's it was a different world. Major dietary changes happened with this diet though, as we were vegan and couldn't possibly believe (and neither did my care providers with the exception of my herbalist/nutritionist) that diet had anything to do with it. I/we ate SO well. Ah well, live and learn!

We are still ona modified version, but getting more strict to see if we can really heal celiac disease-my DhT, MD thinks we can.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

We have had great success with the diet. My kids and I all had significant allergies and they each had very different behavioral and neurological issues. Dd was failure to thrive from birth and going down hill fast. After a couple months on the diet there was a huge change. Dd's teeth are also much better (they came in without enamel) Still working on the teeth thing, but you can see a distinct line where the enamel has started to form. Really bizarre.

I got rid of horribly systemic yeast, acne, depression, fatigue, irritability and eczema. I stopped losing hair and slept better. I got diagnosed with celiac disease (finally) and I lost a ton of weight.

Ds is no longer on the autism spectrum, dd isn't but hasn't been diagnosed off of it yet. She is a very different kid. She never slept (neither did) and now they do. Their terrible rashes are gone. Cradle cap is gone. Hyperactivity-gone. They now listen. Dd started speaking and developing new skills as soon as the diet was introduced. SHe is no longer a cranky nightmare child. Ds can sit and read. Our lives are completely different. I am very lucky because I can in to this last year with practitioners who totally got it. I had alot of info off the bat about supplements and things. I had already been doing CLO, L glutamine, Pascalite, zinc, MSM, and probiotics. I had been doing enzymes, but once I tried the Houston's it was a different world. Major dietary changes happened with this diet though, as we were vegan and couldn't possibly believe (and neither did my care providers with the exception of my herbalist/nutritionist) that diet had anything to do with it. I/we ate SO well. Ah well, live and learn!

We are still ona modified version, but getting more strict to see if we can really heal celiac disease-my DhT, MD thinks we can.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--what enzymes were you using before Houston's? Do you think it was the amount of enzymes in Houston's that were effective or the specific combinations? I compared Houston's to the Digest Gold and it seems like they pretty much have the same enzymes with the Digest Gold usually having more of each particular enzymes, so it seems like Digest Gold is a better deal than doing at least 2 different Houston's per meal/snack. Of course they each have a couple of enzymes that the other didn't have, so it's hard to say for sure. So I wonder if Houston's would be more effective sometimes...it's so hard to know if one particular thing will make that big of a difference, KWIM?


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I put the yogurt in the frig. Guess it got a bit firmer. I am eating some now and under the top layer, which was the firmest, it was quite runny. Lumpy. It tasted ok, but not the homemade yogurt taste I remember.

I used pasteurized but not homogenized organic whole milk and yogurt.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I had used the Garden of Life enzymes (for me, not the kiddos) and had tried the wobenzyme.

I really think Houston's are awesome because of the way you give them in different combinations. IT really worked for us. I believe they work quicker for healing purposes (at least in our case) because of it. I also found that they were stronger...though I only tried the digest gold once, and only because I was waiting for my Houston shipment.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Just returned from vacation. Went to Cayman Brac and drank coconut milk straight from the coconuts. OMG it was soooo good.







(I hadn't had real coconut milk since I was a child.) What a HUGE difference from the nasty canned stuff. I even smuggled 2 through customs to bring home.









I've read what I've missed and have to say that we've been on SCD for 4 months now and have made tremendous progress. I even had a tiny bit of lunch meat







, a small small piece of chocolate (which didn't taste nearly as good as I expected it to), and hmmmm. . . one other SCD illegal thing this last week with NO adverse affects.









I am not going to do anymore SCD illegals for a while (other than the few supplements we do) 'cause I really want to do this right and be able to have some grains SOON!


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I LOVE peanut butter, but it is soooo bad for you for so many reasons. I just allow a jar every couple of weeks in my home and put my head in the sand. They are really moldy (as are cashews) and can aggravate a mold allergy/issue. They are also not truly a nut and many people have issues with legumes.

I've started having a minor, minor relapse on my acne - could be my period starting in a few days, but I've decided to cut out peanut butter just in case. Thanks for your input on the PB - maybe I'll start with almond butter if I reintroduce. Your point on legumes was interesting - I'm really hoping that I respond well to them when I introduce them in a month or so - I really would like some variety in my protein sources. Meat is a pain in the rear to prepare for every freaking meal!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Ideally the cells in the gut regenerate every 3-7 days depending on the individual. So a steady gut healing regime employing everything you have at your disposal (enzymes, nutrition and supplements) could really heal you very quickly. There are no concrete answers and so many variables. You could potentially heal the gut lining, but not rid your body entirely of a fungal overgrowth, or a parasitic infection or have something else going on... It is trial and error but it CAN be done. It's just a matter of really paying attention to your body and modifying accordingly. That's what we're all here for!

FF, you're taking glutamine while pregnant - Did you have any concerns or precautions you took about it? The mainstream info advises against, but I think they'd advise against lettuce if they had the chance







I want to start weeding out the supplements that I think aren't doing much or could be a bit risky during pg (evening primrose, enzymes, kombucha, zinc, fake probiotics) and only concentrate on the ones I have a lot of faith in what they're doing (glutamine, real-food probiotics, CLO). Would love your opinion!


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Oh, also? How bad do you think it might be if say hypothetically 3 lbs of ground beef (organic! grassfed!) were left out (wrapped, unopened) for about 9 or 10 hours? Would you (hypothetically) still cook it and eat it?

My take is a little different (but don't tell my employer - this is not sanctioned by the health department!)
The big concern with the meat is going to be spoilage. There aren't even any laws governing how long restaurants can keep raw meat around because everyone knows that it spoils way before you would be concerned about it making someone sick, especially when you're going to cook it. The freezing step will help with parasites, but only nominally with bacteria and viruses. Freezing is how they preserve those cultures in a lab, so it doesn't have the destructive force that you might think.
With 9-10 hours though, it's possible that it did spoil. Make sure you smell carefully - if it smells the slightest bit off, I wouldn't serve it.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Just returned from vacation. Went to Cayman Brac and drank coconut milk straight from the coconuts. OMG it was soooo good.







(I hadn't had real coconut milk since I was a child.) What a HUGE difference from the nasty canned stuff. I even smuggled 2 through customs to bring home.










Can you buy coconuts at an Asian store? I bought them here when preg to drink yhe milk for my bp.

Thanks for sharing some success stories!


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Okay, I think I _may_ be ready to move past the bargaining stage regarding SCD.









But I have some questions...can it be done without eating meat? I think I'd be okay with eggs and other dairy products.

My one concern with dairy, though, is that it seems like dairy is one of the things that makes my son's spitting up worse. (I eat a mostly vegan diet, but I used to cheat at the local custard stand and have a grilled cheese sandwich and a dish of custard...and when ds was a tiny baby he would be sick all evening spitting up and moaning after that.)

So is there any hope for my doing SCD without meat, and maybe without dairy (I'm assuming I'd have to avoid dairy)?

My other question is that my son is super healthy besides the spitting up (until six months of age or so he was off the charts for height and weight, only had one cold, etc.) -- does that mean anything? (I guess that's still bargaining, lol.) He is still spitting up, though, even if it's just in his own mouth. Poor baby!


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Okay, I think I _may_ be ready to move past the bargaining stage regarding SCD.









I am still trying to discern what all is *legal* on the SCD. So, take my opinion with a grain of salt (if that is allowed).

Quote:

So is there any hope for my doing SCD without meat, and maybe without dairy (I'm assuming I'd have to avoid dairy)?
Our son spit up and screamed with gas pains, until I eliminated corn, soy, broccoli, cabbage, onions, garlic, wheat, cinnamon, and many other foods. _But then_ he never even burped or was gassy. I really think there are many foods that are hard on the gut; so even if you tried, it couldn't hurt. I found getting enough protein is very hard though without meat or dairy. Is fish legal? I ate a ton of salmon (not on SCD, just the elimination diet for food intolerances) and it is high in good fats.

I hope something in there helps.

Pat


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Pat- On scd you are eliminating all but monosacharides. So grains, sugar, starches, lactose for example are all avoided. Meats are fine, as are fruits and veggies and dairy that you have removed all the lactose from (not lactaid though) and honey and nuts. Legumes are eventually fine once you have been on the diet for a while. The idea is that gi problems come from an imbalance of gut microbes and this diet is an attempt to kill off the bad guys (yeast or bacteria or others) and give the gut a chance to heal from the damage done to it so that it can keep itself healthy in the future. Since monosacharides are digested very quickly and absorbed they don't hang arround in the gut to feed the bad guys and so they die off. Many of us have added some other things to this basic diet in hopes that it will help us get better faster. Both foods/suppliments that kill off the bad guys as well as foods/suppliments that heal the gut from the damage done to it. In addition we are taking probiotics to populate our guts with the good guys that should have been there the whole time but for whatever reason aren't.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Okay, I think I _may_ be ready to move past the bargaining stage regarding SCD.









But I have some questions...can it be done without eating meat? I think I'd be okay with eggs and other dairy products.

My one concern with dairy, though, is that it seems like dairy is one of the things that makes my son's spitting up worse. (I eat a mostly vegan diet, but I used to cheat at the local custard stand and have a grilled cheese sandwich and a dish of custard...and when ds was a tiny baby he would be sick all evening spitting up and moaning after that.)

So is there any hope for my doing SCD without meat, and maybe without dairy (I'm assuming I'd have to avoid dairy)?

My other question is that my son is super healthy besides the spitting up (until six months of age or so he was off the charts for height and weight, only had one cold, etc.) -- does that mean anything? (I guess that's still bargaining, lol.) He is still spitting up, though, even if it's just in his own mouth. Poor baby!

Have you tried goat diary? There are lots of products out there. Milk, cheese, butter. It doesn't taste just like cows milk but some of them are pretty darn close.

It would be difficult to do scd w/o any meat or dairy at all. You will eat lots and lots of eggs. The three of us go through 4 or more dozen a week and we eat meat and DH doesn't eat breakfast at home. DD and I eat eggs for breakfast nearly every day. Most of the recipes call for lots of eggs because they are a good binding agent since there is no gluten or gums allowed on this diet. You can't eat beans or legumes untill 6 months into the diet. You can't ever eat soy. I'm not trying to tell you to not do this diet. I think it has been a great thing for our family. I'm just trying to be really honest with you about it.

Good luck to you figuring this all out.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Shanna-I deferred to my health care providers on the supplements. They are extremely knowledgable and very cautious. THey gave me the go-ahead for the glutamine...it's only an amino acid.

Enzymes are really safe during pregnancy, and zinc is absolutely essential-it's one if the top minerals women are deficient in during pregnancy. Absolutely essential for building new cells. Just get a really good brand. CLO-clearly a great choice! I also take MSM and several other things that I never questioned just because I knew they were fine. But all my care providers (midwives, herbalist, nutritionist, chiro, homeopath, MD (who is also an herbalist) etc.) know what I take. I research things to death, but the things I questioned were all okayed without a second thought.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Okay, I think I _may_ be ready to move past the bargaining stage regarding SCD.









But I have some questions...can it be done without eating meat? I think I'd be okay with eggs and other dairy products.

My one concern with dairy, though, is that it seems like dairy is one of the things that makes my son's spitting up worse. (I eat a mostly vegan diet, but I used to cheat at the local custard stand and have a grilled cheese sandwich and a dish of custard...and when ds was a tiny baby he would be sick all evening spitting up and moaning after that.)

So is there any hope for my doing SCD without meat, and maybe without dairy (I'm assuming I'd have to avoid dairy)?

My other question is that my son is super healthy besides the spitting up (until six months of age or so he was off the charts for height and weight, only had one cold, etc.) -- does that mean anything? (I guess that's still bargaining, lol.) He is still spitting up, though, even if it's just in his own mouth. Poor baby!

I think you could do it without meat but it would certainly be easier with meat. I would definitely second the recommendation for trying goat dairy. And you will probably go through tons of eggs--I eat a lot of meat (probably average 1/2 lb/day) and I still manage to go through almost a dozen eggs a day by myself, though I don't do dairy.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

How exactly do you take the Houston enzymes? Do you have to take 1 of each of the three types with each meal, or does it depend on what you are eating? It would get awfully pricey to take 1 of each per meal/snack... (Maybe someone who uses them can give me a days worth of meals and say which enzymes they take with each?)


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
You can't eat beans or legumes untill 6 months into the diet.

Oh my. Six months?!? I am still waiting on the book, but in my mind had decided to read it and try the diet. I guess I was thinking it wouldn't be THAT different than what I am doing, since I already cut out the grains and mostly all sugar. But I am starting to think that I am kidding myself.

I am pretty much where you are at, New Mama. I can do dairy and eggs, but still wondering about the meat. Does the intro diet just do chicken? I remember reading that on the website. The only meat I can really get interested in eating again is beef. Don't know if I can ever eat chicken again.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Moonshine-I'm with you. Chicken grosses me out. I can't really do much fish either. When I started doing animal products I thought I was going to die, but now I really am liking beef, duck and lamb.

For the enzymes I just match them to what I'm eating for the most part. In between meals I only do No Fenol and Peptizyde.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Pat- On scd you are eliminating all but monosacharides.

Thank you so much for the Cliff's Notes version.







Wow. Only monosacharides. Aren't you all hungry? Monosacharides don't seem to hold my hunger at bay. They are digested so quickly. I see that this is the point. Are you eating a lot of fats? I know that a high protein diet will help to keep you from feeling hungry.

And I would suspect that without a lot of fiber that there are consitpation issues? Just trying to comprehend the challenges. Imposing this on a 5 year old sounds much harder than having limited options for a younger child. Hmmmm....no grains. Like no rice milk, no Rice Dream ice cream? He'd never go for that. I am intrigued by the idea though, I thought the goal of a healthy diet was to *increase* complex carbohydrates. Why are ALL grains eliminated, not just gluten? And what is the issue with legumes?







Is it because they break down to sugars that feed the yeast? What about potatoes? This would be very hard for a vegetarian.

I think I need a tutorial on probiotics. What makes some yeast good and some bad? I understand that some types of bacteria in the gut are beneficial.

What about vitamins and minerals lost during the elimination periods of the diet? It sounds like these could get out of whack. Is everyone taking supplements? I saw that the bioavailibilty of the supplements is critical (and expensive).

Thanks again for the explanation.

Pat


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Fats and protein are what keep you full...increasing the fats will help a bunch.

Grains take a long time to digest, and therefore feed the yeast/bacteria/parasites. Gluten is a problem for many because of the protein, but all grains will feed yeast-which is why they aren't allowed on any anti-candida diet.

Complex carbs are there! Just not in the form of grains. You get to eat all the veggies you want with the exception of certain starchy veggies like potatoes.

There are plenty of great alternatives to ice cream that are perfectly legal on this diet. Some simple, some more complex.

We never had any constipation issues with the diet. You can eat cooked fruit and veggies so you do get fiber. They are introduced slowly, but they are there.

Bacteria is only "bad" when it's out of balance. We all have it, we all need it. When certain strains grow out of control then things become probelmatic. Candida doesn't exist in a healthy gut. A tyoe of bacteria that is similar does, but it only becomes the rampant strain of candida once it rages out of control and becomes destructive.

There are some supplements that are beneficial. Understand though, with a damaged gut even if you are eating a "healthy" diet you aren't absorbing nutrients the way you need to be. So eliminating these particular foods for brief times isn't really as bad as you may think if in the long run it means utliizing more of the nutrients you are taking in. HTH.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Thanks for the clarification and details.

Pat


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Shanna-I deferred to my health care providers on the supplements. They are extremely knowledgable and very cautious. THey gave me the go-ahead for the glutamine...it's only an amino acid.

Enzymes are really safe during pregnancy, and zinc is absolutely essential-it's one if the top minerals women are deficient in during pregnancy. Absolutely essential for building new cells. Just get a really good brand. CLO-clearly a great choice! I also take MSM and several other things that I never questioned just because I knew they were fine. But all my care providers (midwives, herbalist, nutritionist, chiro, homeopath, MD (who is also an herbalist) etc.) know what I take. I research things to death, but the things I questioned were all okayed without a second thought.

I thought the same thing about the glutamine - can't figure out why conventional medical info cautions against. I would hate to stop taking it because I feel so confident that it's helping my healing.

I've been thinking a lot about your opinion against the multi-vits, and I think it's a really interesting point. I just feel a little lost about what to focus on. Without doing the grains, I'm leaning towards a B-Vit supplment and probably folate. I'm going to look more into the zinc, but I think I'm currently taking 50mg, which seems a little high...... The enzymes I'm torn on, since I'm really cutting out foods my body isn't doing well on (and, PS, I'm ecstatic tha I'm seeing correlations!). I'm strictly on meat and veggies right now, and I really would like to do away with anything that isn't necessary......


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Understand though, with a damaged gut even if you are eating a "healthy" diet you aren't absorbing nutrients the way you need to be. So eliminating these particular foods for brief times isn't really as bad as you may think if in the long run it means utliizing more of the nutrients you are taking in. HTH.

YES! This is _finally_ what got me out of denial and onto the diet








And......don't tell the fates, but I think it's working!


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
I'm going to look more into the zinc, but I think I'm currently taking 50mg, which seems a little high......

Shanna, I was looking into zinc supplements for our son. I read that very high doses of zinc interferes with cooper absorption, and calcium absorption. Interestingly, I also noted that the nursing mother's stores of zinc can be depleted during lactation, and the suggestion was for supplementation with zinc for infants as young as 7 months. (And mothers.) http://dietary-supplements.info.nih....s/cc/zinc.html

Pat


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Shanna, I was looking into zinc supplements for our son. I read that very high doses of zinc interferes with cooper absorption, and calcium absorption. Interestingly, I also noted that the nursing mother's stores of zinc can be depleted during lactation, and the suggestion was for supplementation with zinc for infants as young as 7 months. (And mothers.) http://dietary-supplements.info.nih....s/cc/zinc.html

Pat

I was also wondering about zinc and if you guys are taking copper with it. I suppose most of you take a cal-mag.

Also about glutamine, can it cause headaches? I took 500 mg 3 times for a few days and I would get these splitting sharp headaches. I cut back to once a day and the headaches seems to be gone.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

I have a question about supplements -- how much of l-glutamine, msm & zinc are you all taking, and can you reccomend brands? Thanks!


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Also, if I were willing to do fish, would that work? I'd be worried about toxins, though. And eating vegan is so much less expensive!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

New Mama-that's so funny-I found the exact opposite. My budget has gone way down since introducing animal products. Things are more expensive, but man I eat a lot less! I was doing the raw vegan thing and I jsut ate SO much. Felt great, but wow! So now our budget has definitely dropped. Fish is absolutely allowed-I get concerned about toxins as well. There are plenty of fish with lower levels, and something I never knew is that pretty much all the toxins come off the shrimp with the peel. They actually have really low levels of contamination. They are not bottom feeders as I thought-they move quite a bit in the water. Just make sure to get wild caught and not farmed. My nutritionist (as she was begging me to eat animal products) came up with all the research and info on shrimp. I was really suprised.

Shanna-I do a B supreme by Designs for Health. I really like it. My greens supplement also has a ton of b vitamins and folate. I don't tend to supplement the folate because of my diet.

50 mg of zinc is only necessary if you are in an acute state of need (deficiency or sickness) If you can taste it, I would absolutely drop back to maybe 30 mg. Minerals need to be in balance. An excess of any one for a prolonged period of time will interrupt the absorption of others.

Enzymes will just make the process go a little quicker. They will help to cleanse and patch up the gut. If it's a $ issue, then it's probably not high on my list of necessary things from what you've said about your situation. But it will make things fly by if you can do them.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Also, if I were willing to do fish, would that work? I'd be worried about toxins, though. And eating vegan is so much less expensive!

I think the deal with eating meat is not so much that you HAVE to do it on this diet, it's that you may have trouble getting enough to eat without it. If you don't want to eat meat but are willing to eat eggs and dairy, then try it that way and add the meat if you feel like you need to. Just my two cents worth.

I would really recommend doing bone broths though, if at all possible--they contain a ton of minerals and the gelatin in them is really good for healing the gut.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I have a question about supplements -- how much of l-glutamine, msm & zinc are you all taking, and can you reccomend brands? Thanks!

l-glutamine...1000 mg 2x/day, NOW brand
msm...1/2 tsp powder 2x/day, NOW brand
zinc...still working on this one, the liquid version I got is seriously nasty so I'm going to switch to a capsule (NOW brand zinc picolinate 50 mg)

I'm also taking vitamin C (acerola powder) and pascalite clay, plus enzymes and probiotics (my kitchen counter looks a little like a pharmacy!).


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I was also wondering about zinc and if you guys are taking copper with it. I suppose most of you take a cal-mag.

Also about glutamine, can it cause headaches? I took 500 mg 3 times for a few days and I would get these splitting sharp headaches. I cut back to once a day and the headaches seems to be gone.

I'm taking 50 mg of zinc a day, but not taking any copper. It sounds like I should be though.....

I've been taking the same dose of L-glutamine as you, and I haven't had headaches. Sounds like you may have isolated that that was the case for you though. Headaches for me are usually dehydration.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Shanna-I don't do amy copper because I do a mineral supplement. I don't know that you want to go supplementing willy-nilly. Make sure you read up and take it *if* you need it. I get pretty much everything I need in the right amounts. The only minerals I isolate are calcium, magnesium, zinc and occasionally selenium. I get everythings else in a broad spectrum supplement.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I would really recommend doing bone broths though, if at all possible--they contain a ton of minerals and the gelatin in them is really good for healing the gut.

What do you all think of this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ance&n=3760901


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

firefaery--i just wanted to say that your story is so awesome! you have such dedication!

my pascalite clay came this morning (after breakfast). i'm so excited! i think i'll start with two tsp. then tomorrow take a tbsp? i've found different things online. i swear i feel like i'm buying x-ray glasses from the back of a comic book. i really hope it'll work, but before i add enzymes again i have to ask...

any bf'ing mamas using enzymes? with a baby in diapers? and do you think i can give the girls (17 months) the clay? how could i get it in them?

any ideas on how to get butter oil into them? i was using nut muffins, but it seems that even half a muffin is too much for my babes.

dda is SICK, but in a good mood occasionally. she's had a fever for over a day and a runny nose and cough. i'm afraid ddb wil get it. i wonder if this is the respiratory infection BTVC talks about happening at 2 or 3 months. anyone experience that?

for newer mamas--i find that i am in denial about doing without something until i realize that something's really gotta change. i just soaked and dried tons of cashews to make jane's cake/bread recipe, but i told dh he has to eat them because the girls really can't tolerate them. i am so sad bc they are delicious, but the sooner we get thru this the soon we can eat--dare i say it--actually bread (sprouted or sourdough, of course







). i guess things are easier to isolate after you've been on the diet a bit. it really would be nice to have a huge manuscript of success stories and try to see if there are supplements that work for specific symptoms (ala homeopathy, you know). sorry if what i just said is blatantly obvious.

i'll try to post my supplements later--they are totally in flux and involve trader joe's b and c complexes that i probably shouldn't even be taking but am trying to finish up.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

I can't find it on the cheat sheet - isn't there a test you can do to determine vitamin and mineral deficiencies?

New mama, I was eating fish at least 1X daily when I was on the intro diet. I was a little nervous eating that much, but as ff pointed out, you have to balance out those concerns with other more chronic health and nutrition concerns that you should have if you do indeed have a leaky gut. I have gone to having fish 1-2X weekly since I've added in beef, pork and chicken. I think you would find that you'll want seafood in addition to eggs if you will eat that but not other meats. The variety in the early stages of SCD is a little problematic, so you may find that you're open to things that you weren't previously. Good luck in this quest - I didn't have much luck with eliminating dairy and gluten, but have seen great results with doing the SCD proper.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I would really recommend doing bone broths though, if at all possible--they contain a ton of minerals and the gelatin in them is really good for healing the gut.

Is it possible to get bones without first getting the meat? Hmmm, then I would have to figure out where. I am so squemish about handling meat. Always have been.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

For beef-absolutely. Most markets (even mainstream ones) will sell bones for stock.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Is it possible to get bones without first getting the meat? Hmmm, then I would have to figure out where. I am so squemish about handling meat. Always have been.

Most HFS's have beef bones. Actually if you can find some them still have meat remnants attached the broth has a better flavor, but you don't have to do anything other than dump the bones in the pot


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Will somebody please post the link to the SCD success stories thread? Searched, but can't find it.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Will somebody please post the link to the SCD success stories thread? Searched, but can't find it.

I don't think there is one...someone mentioned that they started one but nobody posted on it.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Okay, I was able to read the SCD book last night and today. It does seem do-able, and I'm willing to do eggs and fish.

A few more questions (and someday I hope to be helping someone else instead of asking questions all the time) -- why is it that legumes and a few other things should be introduced later than the other allowable foods? (And BTW she says three months for legumes.)

I'm just wondering, since I don't have any GI problems, do I have to wait to introduce those things (particularly coconut milk, nuts, and legumes) and do I have to do the strict intro diet?

I'm not trying to get out of anything, honest, but I'm just wondering if this applies to me. Especially if I'm not eating meat, it would be nice to have legumes right away.

Also, is homemade kefir legal?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

They are much more fiburus so more stuff will be hanging arround in your gut to feed the bad guys when you eat them. At minimum I would go 1 month with "fanatical adherance" and then if you introduce something too soon your body will let you know pretty quickly.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Okay, I was able to read the SCD book last night and today. It does seem do-able, and I'm willing to do eggs and fish.

A few more questions (and someday I hope to be helping someone else instead of asking questions all the time) -- why is it that legumes and a few other things should be introduced later than the other allowable foods? (And BTW she says three months for legumes.)

I'm just wondering, since I don't have any GI problems, do I have to wait to introduce those things (particularly coconut milk, nuts, and legumes) and do I have to do the strict intro diet?

I'm not trying to get out of anything, honest, but I'm just wondering if this applies to me. Especially if I'm not eating meat, it would be nice to have legumes right away.

Also, is homemade kefir legal?

I'm sure it's related to the structure of the sugars. BUT - I can attest to the fact that I have had virtually no GI symptoms so I went full-steam ahead into Stage 5, but was surprised to see that nuts and nut butters could be aggravating to my acne, so I had to backpeddle a little bit. Still haven't introduced even cultured dairy because I'm worried that will set me back as well. Even if you do it by the book in the stages she recommends (which I strongly recommend for the reason I'm about to say), you'll want to go slowly so you can see where your "digestion ceiling" is. Does anyone remember doing those awful titration experiments in science class? This diet is a lot like that - if you go too fast, you'll never know what set you back and you have to backtrack more than necessary.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Okay, I've been spending the last 4 months focusing on myself and dd2. Now it's time to focus on dd1. I'm sure she has yeast issues. The clincher for me was last week when dh and I decided to buy her a *treat* while on vacation and gave her an orange push up popsicle.









That night she was a mess. Cried and cried, didn't want her diaper off and her poopy was mushy (usually is) and stinky like that familiar yeasty smell when she got recurring yeast rashes last summer. Her little vulva was firery red too.









So . . . hope you don't all mind my asking tons of questions re: yeast 'cause I wasn't really paying attention to that part of this thread over the last several weeks.









Anyway, what to do first? I gave her some No Fenol in her drink this afternoon between meals. Is that a good start? What else can I do right away? Do I have to eliminate fruit from her diet?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Okay, I've been spending the last 4 months focusing on myself and dd2. Now it's time to focus on dd1. I'm sure she has yeast issues. The clincher for me was last week when dh and I decided to buy her a *treat* while on vacation and gave her an orange push up popsicle.









That night she was a mess. Cried and cried, didn't want her diaper off and her poopy was mushy (usually is) and stinky like that familiar yeasty smell when she got recurring yeast rashes last summer. Her little vulva was firery red too.









So . . . hope you don't all mind my asking tons of questions re: yeast 'cause I wasn't really paying attention to that part of this thread over the last several weeks.









Anyway, what to do first? I gave her some No Fenol in her drink this afternoon between meals. Is that a good start? What else can I do right away? Do I have to eliminate fruit from her diet?

Is she doing scd? We have greatly limited honey and fruits, esp close to sleep times. DD loves berries and those are low gi so we do mostly berries for fruit. Get probiotics into her. Try CO. I'm getting a ton of die off from it. Vinegar in her bath water can help heal the external yeast. Zink also. According to my Dr weleda diaper care cream is the best for external yeast.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I don't think there is one...someone mentioned that they started one but nobody posted on it.

Yup, that was me but no takers. A few people have responded here. I am feeling a lot like there are a lot of families working hard at healing but not sure there are a whole lot who have been successful. I am not trying to be negative or put anyone down I would just like to hear more about what has worked.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I know several people who had success and therefore aren't here anymore. I myself was gone for several months basking in my success and kept referring people back, so I came back to follow through!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
Yup, that was me but no takers. A few people have responded here. I am feeling a lot like there are a lot of families working hard at healing but not sure there are a whole lot who have been successful. I am not trying to be negative or put anyone down I would just like to hear more about what has worked.









I had a bad case of systemic yeast that I took care of with the candida diet. I was extra-strict for 9 months. The sort of strictness that was only possible because I was also suffering from postpartum OCD.







Well, it's not that funny I suppose.

I have heavy metal problems though and continue to have mild yeast problems. For instance, every few months or so I get a mild case of nipple thrush that goes away by itself. I expect when the metals are cleared out, the thrush will follow. But just the fact that it goes away seems like a miracle to me. I was treating it six ways to Sunday before and it came back every 4-6 weeks and never really went completely away. It was just tolerable in the meantime.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

JaneS made me come back and post on this thread.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
I'm sure it's related to the structure of the sugars. BUT - I can attest to the fact that I have had virtually no GI symptoms so I went full-steam ahead into Stage 5, but was surprised to see that nuts and nut butters could be aggravating to my acne, so I had to backpeddle a little bit.

Maybe I'm dense, but where in the book does she outline "stages"? I've only seen the pages on allowable and not permitted food items, and then mentions here and there about waiting for things after diarrhea clears up. Am I missing something?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Okay, I've been spending the last 4 months focusing on myself and dd2. Now it's time to focus on dd1. I'm sure she has yeast issues. The clincher for me was last week when dh and I decided to buy her a *treat* while on vacation and gave her an orange push up popsicle.









That night she was a mess. Cried and cried, didn't want her diaper off and her poopy was mushy (usually is) and stinky like that familiar yeasty smell when she got recurring yeast rashes last summer. Her little vulva was firery red too.









So . . . hope you don't all mind my asking tons of questions re: yeast 'cause I wasn't really paying attention to that part of this thread over the last several weeks.









Anyway, what to do first? I gave her some No Fenol in her drink this afternoon between meals. Is that a good start? What else can I do right away? Do I have to eliminate fruit from her diet?

You might try colloidal silver spray to clear up the external yeast--firefaery recommended it to me and it cleared up DD's yeast rash (I'm still not 100% sure it was a yeast rash, but whatever it was, it clear it up and nothing else had).
enzymestuff.com recommends a combination of enzymes in between meals and a yeast killer (raw garlic, GSE, oil of oregano)


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

What's CO? And where do you get colloidal silver spray?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Re: success
Even though we're still in the midst of it I can claim some success. I started SCD 3 weeks before dd was diagnosed w/a wheat/gluten allergy. I posted a few months ago pics of her before and after. The pics really tell it all.

DD had what my ped called *significant reflux* and was on several different medications for the first 5 mos. of her life. Some seemed to help, others made things worse. We elevated her crib even though we co-slept (dh still does) w/dd1 and hated to do it. She DID NOT sleep. I mean didn't sleep. Even as a newborn she'd sleep maybe a total of 7-8 hours in a 24 hour period. No exaggeration.

Her eyes were cloudy, red, puffy with dark circles. Sometimes her eyes would clear up, other days they'd be worse. I attributed this to lack of sleep. The miracle is that she gained weight and was a happy baby so our ped didn't take it seriously when I told him she never slept.

I knew it was food related and I tried eliminating dairy (twice), did the total elimination diet, and finally tried to eliminate wheat. Then I found out about gut healing.

I had my own gut issues. (Actually was dx'ed with diverticulitis at birth when I had intestinal surgery.) I lived with bouts of IBS and went through several GI tests in my early 20's which turned up nothing. I thought it was stress related. (It probably was.)

The SCD has totally made me *regular*







and has helped dd more than I can ever put into words. She is like a different child. I was starting to fear that she was on the autism spectrum - - she actually exhibited some stimming behaviors and other signs of early autism. Not any more. The people that know us IRL see the difference in her. I am so grateful that I discovered this. It's changed our lives and we only continue to get better.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Okay, I was able to read the SCD book last night and today. It does seem do-able, and I'm willing to do eggs and fish.

A few more questions (and someday I hope to be helping someone else instead of asking questions all the time) -- why is it that legumes and a few other things should be introduced later than the other allowable foods? (And BTW she says three months for legumes.)

I'm just wondering, since I don't have any GI problems, do I have to wait to introduce those things (particularly coconut milk, nuts, and legumes) and do I have to do the strict intro diet?

I'm not trying to get out of anything, honest, but I'm just wondering if this applies to me. Especially if I'm not eating meat, it would be nice to have legumes right away.

Also, is homemade kefir legal?

Kefir is illegal because of the yeasts in it.

The point of the intro diet is to jump start the healing by only eating foods that you should be able to digest easily for a bit, and also to give you a baseline from which to hopefully be able to tell if you are having trouble with other foods once you add them in. Stages come from the website www.pecanbread.com--you don't have to follow them but they are a helpful guide. I only managed one day of the intro diet, but I would have done it longer if I could have held out--it just makes me HUNGRY!!! Oh, and I also don't have GI issues other than gas, which nothing seems to help









Legumes are pretty hard to digest, so they recommend waiting for 3 months to allow your gut to be healed/mostly healed before introducing them. I guess the same thing goes for coconut products, although I don't believe it applies to coconut oil. You can add nut butters pretty quickly--maybe not right after the intro diet if you can hold out for a bit, although I know some of us added them in right away (hunger again).

Before I scare anybody away, I better add that I am not hungry all the time anymore. After the first week or so I got into a routine of what I could and couldn't eat, figured out a few good recipes, and now I eat plenty. It's just the first little bit that is hard, although I think even the intro would have been a lot easier if I could have done dairy.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
What's CO? And where do you get colloidal silver spray?

co=coconut oil
I got the colloidal silver at the HFS.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I am hoping that I will understand a lot more once my books finally get here,l but I do appreciate your taking time to help us newbies!!

My question is: Is it so critical to stay away from things like fruit and honey (which was mentioned above) if your problem isn't yeast? I have no evidence (that I am aware of) that I have a yeast problem, but clearly something is going on.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
I am hoping that I will understand a lot more once my books finally get here,l but I do appreciate your taking time to help us newbies!!

My question is: Is it so critical to stay away from things like fruit and honey (which was mentioned above) if your problem isn't yeast? I have no evidence (that I am aware of) that I have a yeast problem, but clearly something is going on.

The avoiding fruit and honey is just for those with candidia issues.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
Yup, that was me but no takers. A few people have responded here. I am feeling a lot like there are a lot of families working hard at healing but not sure there are a whole lot who have been successful. I am not trying to be negative or put anyone down I would just like to hear more about what has worked.









We are not fully healed but have seen too much progress to doubt that the diet is doing it.

I have know that I had a candidia issue for years but have lived like an ostrich about it.







DD got a yeast diaper rash that never really went away when she was 12ish months old. At 18 months she got molluscum and my naturopath instantly said it is related to yeast and if you can clear up the yeast you will get rid of the molluscum. After several months on homeopathics for yeast the molluscum did clear up but the yeast rash persisited. Searching for answers to why that was going on led me to search in food allergies info. She has reacted to tomatoes and citrus fruit plus randomly getting sploches on her face while eating various things that seemed to have little in common if anything.
Plus, dd hasn't ever slept well. We have had times when it was better than other times but never well. I'm not sure when it began to take hours to get her to sleep. It happened some the first half of her first year but became a consistant thing some time before she was 12 months and got progressively worse. Our lives revolved arround getting her to sleep for naps and bedtime. It got somewhat better after we moved (I think the stress of moving really got to her and she didn't bounce back very quickly at all). We got back to where it took only 1-2 hours after lights out to get her to sleep. Naps typically took an hour after the story was done and lights were out. This is her in arms nursing or being held and walked in pitch black with loud white noise going. We tried every trick we could think of. Not only was she difficult to get to sleep but then she would wake up every 45 min to 2 hours all night long. With naps I had to be there to get her back to sleep after 30-45 min and then I usually could get another 30-45 min out of her. Plus she was clingy all day. At 24 months she still nursed 12-15x every day. She didn't handle being put off for nursing well at all. She would simply fall apart and be completely distraught.

We started scd when she was 25 months old and sick for the umpteenth time that winter. She and I had been gluten free for 3 weeks at this point to see if that would help. We both did react to gluten when we got it by mistake but removing it didn't seem to help us feel better. Within a couple of weeks she was going to sleep for her naps in 15 min or less. (I just don't remember how quickly that started). She also started sleeping longer for both her naps and at night. She had quite a few nights where she slept for 5 hours straight! This was a miracle as far as I was concerned. (her molars have been coming in this whole time so the sleeping was shot soon after that but it was fun while it lasted). And although she still nurses quite a bit, she is far more easily put off. I have been able to make some rules about when I will and won't nurse her and she has adapted easily to this when she never did in the past.

Visually she just looks much healthier. She had dark circles under her eyes and a palor for who knows how long. Those are gone and she looks much more vital than she has ever looked. Her yeast diaper rash is finally completely gone. I haven't seen it at all for a few weeks. She has also potty learned in this time. It was quite quick when it happened. I noticed within a few days of her starting this diet that she began to hold her urine longer. It was enough of a difference that I noticed it.

My mother has celiacs. She has been gluten free for about a year with lots of mistakes but she is getting better all the time. She came to visit me a few weeks ago and ate just scd while she was here. I had of course told her about it and encouraged her to try to follow it but she had resisted becasue it is so difficult. She felt so much better on scd than she had following a gf diet that she now has gone home and continued to eat scd all the time.

We have been on this diet for just under 3 months and I have faith from what I have seen so far that it can heal our guts and get us back to being healthy again. (not that we will ever eat SAD in this house again.)


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

CO -








Yes, we use it.

How many times a day do you all do No Fenol between meals?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

moonshine,
You can do a spit test yourself at home to determine if you have yeast issues. Just fill a glass w/water. Spit in it first thing in the morning. If your spit forms little strings that start to descend in the water, you have a yeast problem. Pretty cool eh?

I tried this and while I did not think I had any yeast issues (never had), it wouldn't have surprised me. My spit just kind of bubbled on top for a minute and dissapated.

DD1 has yeast problems and I'm speculating that they came from vaxing and antibiotics. We have never fed her sugary foods or snacks (other than fruit). She has had *some* processed food in her short little life, but not much.

Oh, and to answer Patty's question before: DD1 is doing SCD but not w/fanatical adherence. (She and dh have been doing a modified version.) BUT . . .it's time to start dd2 on it w/fanatical adherence.

*AND . . . another question since all this yeast stuff is new to me:*
Does yeast mean leaky gut too? What I'm getting at is, once dd1's poops become normal will this mean that the yeast is gone? Will she always be suseptible to yeast problems? Her poopies have never really been normal. She goes from severe constipation to extremely mushy poops.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

For those of you interested in gut flora of babes here's an interesting paper.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
*AND . . . another question since all this yeast stuff is new to me:*
Does yeast mean leaky gut too? What I'm getting at is, once dd1's poops become normal will this mean that the yeast is gone? Will she always be suseptible to yeast problems? Her poopies have never really been normal. She goes from severe constipation to extremely mushy poops.









Yeast overgrowth can cause leaky gut--apparently the yeast starts to burrow through your gut (nice, huh). As for the poop thing, my guess would be that normal poops would be your DD is better, but not necessarily healed. The reason I say that is because I'm sure I have yeast issues, and I have (and have had) normal BMs, so I don't think that is necessarily a great indicator, for me anyway.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I meant to post my yummy idea for getting more CO into me. I made Jane's Cashew butter bread







and had some cashew butter left over. I mixed in more CO and some coconut and some honey and a little bit of salt. It is quite soft so I made little mounds of it (like if you were making cookies) on a plate and put that in the fridge. Once it was cold it hardened nicely. It is like candy! I don't have any ammounts for you, just play with it. I'm sure you could do it with any nut butter. I made it today using the creamed coconut in it. Delish!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
moonshine,
You can do a spit test yourself at home to determine if you have yeast issues. Just fill a glass w/water. Spit in it first thing in the morning. If your spit forms little strings that start to descend in the water, you have a yeast problem. Pretty cool eh?

I tried this and while I did not think I had any yeast issues (never had), it wouldn't have surprised me. My spit just kind of bubbled on top for a minute and dissapated.
(

Yea, I did this and my spit did the same thing. One (big) less problem to deal with. I told my sister about it and her spit sank as I thought it would. She has been dealing with chronic athlete's foot, among other health issues.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

TMI probably. My own poops got much better after a couple of weeks on scd but since starting CO I'm constipated again. I'm sure it is die off as it was the first couple of weeks on scd.

We don't do enzymes at all right now. I tried some again today and again got an upset stomach from them







. I'll keep trying every few days to a week till I can tolerate them again.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

For best results you do no fenol and peptizyde between meals. That breaks down and ushers out the pathogens. I believe that there's more info on the enzyme stuff website under the candida overgrowth?

We took care of yeast just following the diet. I didn't restrict honey or fruit and it did work...and I had some nasty yeast! Everyone will be different of course.


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## arelyn (Mar 24, 2006)

DH takes NL and such with a grain of salt but generally humors me. Yesterday he asked me to put up a post for him so he must be really worried. DH has Celiac Disease but has been gluten-free for a couple years (pardoning a few accidents). When he does accidently injest gluten he knows about it, he get's fatigue and some nasty but very specific stomach problem (I'll spare you the details). Lately he's been having fatigue like he's been glutinated (pardon my snigglet) but no stomach problems. In fact, when he can get going he feels fine. He get's plenty of sleep (10-14 hours lately







) but always feels like he needs a nap.

He was wondering if it was a problem in his diet. We can't think of anything new he's been eating but maybe someone will know what's going on. We're a little undernorished (I've started tallying how much we eat to prep for pregnancy and was shocked at how little it is) but this has come on suddenly, maybe the past week. I don't think anything has changed though.

Anyhow, hope someone can help. Thanks!!


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## arelyn (Mar 24, 2006)

Forgot to sub!!


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

As far as success stories go, I'm limited in what conclusions I can draw because I've only been on SCD for 16 days (following 1 month dairy and gluten-free with no results). My acne would be characterized as severe, and while it still _looks_ bad due to all of the scarring and slow healing of cystic acne, I can definately tell a difference. Most of the new break-outs I'm trying to determine if they are menstrual related or related to some foods I introduced too quickly (nut butters, mainly). But I'm having much fewer breakouts, and the biggest improvement is that I'm no longer having large, painful cystic eruptions. I find this diet to be incredibly difficult, mostly because my eating habits were pretty poor to begin with. With even how difficult it has been to adjust our lifestyle to (no more eating out, having to plan every little meal), the improvement has really been worth it. And I've lost about 10 pounds, which was a nice bonus.


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## mmMommy (May 5, 2006)

Hi all,

I've been lurking on these boards for a few weeks just trying to assimilate it all. I was hoping you kind ladies could help.

DS dx with milk allergy @7weeks with blood in his stools. Neocate started. 6m we started solids and he did great. At 9 months he reacted with rashes. We thought it was wheat since Cheerios was the last new food we had given. Took out, but rash still not completely gone. Finally took all solids out for 3 weeks (DS was 10m at this time). Rash went away.

Started one new food a week. Rice first week of March went fine, so did sweet potatoes. Green beans, peas and squash he got a rash on the 6-7 day of trial. Then slowly he started reacting to rice and sweet potatoes with the rash. I knew this because I stopped trialling other foods at the beginning of April.

He RAST neg and skin test negative in February.

Dx with delayed food allergies...non igE allergies.

So now at 12.5m we have pulled the two solids he could eat out. Per the ped/allergists at Stanford we are giving him 6m off solids.

I've been talking to a john's hopkins MD who also does homeopathic medicine. She thinks that DS has leaky gut syndrome. And that while 6m will help, if he eats any of the foods too often or in excess the sensitivities will come back.
She also agreed that don't worry about feeding him for the next few months and to give him gut rest. Which I geuss is what the allergist at Stanford Children's Hospital are saying in just a different way.

She said probiotics often help. I'm afraid that he'll be allergic to those too.

But I feel like the Stanford Doctors who while they acknowledge delayed food allergies say not much is known about them....aren't being pro active enough.

I know IgG testing is not as accurate but isn't it a starting pt? Isn't there something we can do?

I don't want to keep trying new foods b/c he is seeming to become allergic to everything with time. And I think the Stanford Doctors and Homeopathic/MD both think that resting his gut will help. But I am just so confused. Nobody I know has allergies and allergic to everything is blowing my mind!

I want to cry b/c he wants to eat and all I can give him is formula =(

I hope you could help. Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

Arati


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

mmMommy, Momtezuma Tuatara appears to be the immune system expert at MDC. Check for her in the Vaccine forum. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=406983

Pat


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
For those of you interested in gut flora of babes here's an interesting paper.

Thanks for sharing this article. It was disturbing and fascinating to observe that our son *did* have antibiotics at birth and subsequently has many food intolerances associated with behavioral manifestations. The idea of "reprogramming" his gut with antimicrobial therapy doesn't sit well with me. But, your all's SCD experiences have piqued my interest in a more holistic approach.

Thanks again.

Pat


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Arelyn, You might examine what type of vitamin and mineral supplementation he utilitizing? I am no celiac expert, but I know that the B-vitamins are challenging to optimize through foods. And Magnesium, Calcium, Zinc and Iron are all associated with lethargy when depleted. Has he tried dosing with any Vit. C or echinecea? Has the allergen exposure in the environment changed recently? We had Spring about a month ago and many people were feeling the assault on their immune system. I am assuming he eats red meat, since you didn't mention it. That is high in iron and zinc. But, Magnesium and Calcium are more difficult to get adequately in the diet, unless prioritized.

HTH, Pat


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Is it so critical to stay away from things like fruit and honey (which was mentioned above) if your problem isn't yeast? I have no evidence (that I am aware of) that I have a yeast problem, but clearly something is going on.

Did you try the spit test as mentioned in either this thread or the April thread, just to rule out yeast? If you're sure it's not yeast, then I would think just doing SCD should be enough, without also limiting honey and fruit. At least cooked fruit, anyway.


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## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Arati, you may want to PM Momtezuma your story. She is amazing. Don't be overwhelmed at the amount of info you can recieve from her, it will eventually sink in. Posting in Vaccines also will be helpful







and good luck.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mmMommy*
Hi all,

I've been lurking on these boards for a few weeks just trying to assimilate it all. I was hoping you kind ladies could help.

DS dx with milk allergy @7weeks with blood in his stools. Neocate started. 6m we started solids and he did great. At 9 months he reacted with rashes. We thought it was wheat since Cheerios was the last new food we had given. Took out, but rash still not completely gone. Finally took all solids out for 3 weeks (DS was 10m at this time). Rash went away.

Started one new food a week. Rice first week of March went fine, so did sweet potatoes. Green beans, peas and squash he got a rash on the 6-7 day of trial. Then slowly he started reacting to rice and sweet potatoes with the rash. I knew this because I stopped trialling other foods at the beginning of April.

He RAST neg and skin test negative in February.

Dx with delayed food allergies...non igE allergies.

So now at 12.5m we have pulled the two solids he could eat out. Per the ped/allergists at Stanford we are giving him 6m off solids.

I've been talking to a john's hopkins MD who also does homeopathic medicine. She thinks that DS has leaky gut syndrome. And that while 6m will help, if he eats any of the foods too often or in excess the sensitivities will come back.
She also agreed that don't worry about feeding him for the next few months and to give him gut rest. Which I geuss is what the allergist at Stanford Children's Hospital are saying in just a different way.

She said probiotics often help. I'm afraid that he'll be allergic to those too.

But I feel like the Stanford Doctors who while they acknowledge delayed food allergies say not much is known about them....aren't being pro active enough.

I know IgG testing is not as accurate but isn't it a starting pt? Isn't there something we can do?

I don't want to keep trying new foods b/c he is seeming to become allergic to everything with time. And I think the Stanford Doctors and Homeopathic/MD both think that resting his gut will help. But I am just so confused. Nobody I know has allergies and allergic to everything is blowing my mind!

I want to cry b/c he wants to eat and all I can give him is formula =(

I hope you could help. Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

Arati

It does sound like your DS has a leaky gut. What happens with leaky gut is that improperly digested food proteins get into the bloodstream, which causes the body to think it is being attacked, and it produces antibodies, which cause symptoms of allergies. When you remove the offending food from the diet, but don't heal the gut, the holes in the gut are still there and improperly digested proteins from different foods get into the bloodstream, again causing allergy symptoms...it's a vicious cycle and you can get to the point where it seems you/the child truly is allergic to everything. A couple of people here have been in a similar situation, firefaery and I can't remember who else.

The food allergies should go away if the gut is healed. Maybe in a young baby the gut will heal on its own since it is still developing, but maybe not. There are things you can do to help heal his gut. There is a diet called the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) that is designed to give the body only foods it can easily digest and this allows the gut to heal. There are plenty of foods on it that are good for babies--cooked fruits and veggies, eggs, chicken... Digestive enzymes are another thing that can be used to help break down food and allow the gut to heal. There are also various supplements that can help with gut healing (zinc, MSM, l-glutamine, cod liver oil, coconut oil, among others).

You may want to do some research on leaky gut (the cheat sheet is a great place to start) and if it sounds like something you want to try, bring some info and talk to your DS's doctor--since he is so young and not BF'ing you might want medical advice on supplements, etc. If it were me I would consult a homeopathic or naturophathic doctor since they generally know way more about nutrition than an MD, but that's up to you.

I hope this helps


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

mmMommy,
Your situation sounds much like ours. DD2 has had intolerances to just about everything and RAST tested + for wheat/gluten. I'm sure you know that there are high rates of false +s w/ the test, and, I've heard also false -s. While this may seem pointless, I do think both IgE and IgG testing can give a starting point.

IMO, I would start the SCD with your babe. DO NOT give rice, sweet potatoes, or peas. Squash IMO is okay to begin with.

My dd is only now eating about 10 different solids without problems. And she's hungry! Poor baby. She really wants to eat more. I so know where you're coming from.

Here's what my dd is now eating: (We also introduce one new food a week and have been doing SCD for 4 months now.)
squash
zucchini
egg yolks (just started the whites too)
bananas
pears
avocado
These were her staples for quite a while. We've now branched out to:
broccoli
asparagus
grapes (insides only - no skin)
AND salmon! But will feed this only occassionally.

It's tough knowing what to start with and add. I have tons of links about feeding allergic/intolerant babes, the sequence of foods etc.. if you're interested.

hth


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Jane,
There's been so much talk about magnesium lately. I ran out of my Kirkman's cal/mag combo (SCD illegal) and mistakenly got buffered mag oxide which is doing nothing for me. What kind do you take that you said helps you sleep so well? Is it Natural Calm?


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Okay, I'm going to do it (SCD). I'm going to my HFS tomorrow and buying eggs and fish...this is big for me. I also ordered a yogurt maker, and will try making yogurt with goat milk.

Does anyone actually use the dry curd cottage cheese recommended in the book? And do you think my HFS will have it?

I spent some time making an Excel spreadsheet to keep track of my supplements, and plan on starting a blog to track my progress (starting out with the issues I hope will be addressed in both me and my son by this diet).

I'm a bit excited but also overwhelmed...I can't even shower with my son around, so I'm not sure how I'll be preparing eggs and fish and baking with nut flour. He'll be going on my back in the mei tai a bit more, I guess.

I suppose I should head over to the SCD thread now!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

New Mama,
It's not an easy diet to start but once you get the hang of preparing everything it'll become second nature. I bake a lot on the weekends when dh is here and freeze stuff for the week. I find dry curd at my regular supermarket near the eggs (not near the cheese). It's called Friendship Farmer's Cheese. It's good too (especially in spinach pie). Yum.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mmMommy*
Hi all,

I've been lurking on these boards for a few weeks just trying to assimilate it all. I was hoping you kind ladies could help.

DS dx with milk allergy @7weeks with blood in his stools. Neocate started. 6m we started solids and he did great. At 9 months he reacted with rashes. We thought it was wheat since Cheerios was the last new food we had given. Took out, but rash still not completely gone. Finally took all solids out for 3 weeks (DS was 10m at this time). Rash went away.

Started one new food a week. Rice first week of March went fine, so did sweet potatoes. Green beans, peas and squash he got a rash on the 6-7 day of trial. Then slowly he started reacting to rice and sweet potatoes with the rash. I knew this because I stopped trialling other foods at the beginning of April.

He RAST neg and skin test negative in February.

Dx with delayed food allergies...non igE allergies.

So now at 12.5m we have pulled the two solids he could eat out. Per the ped/allergists at Stanford we are giving him 6m off solids.

I've been talking to a john's hopkins MD who also does homeopathic medicine. She thinks that DS has leaky gut syndrome. And that while 6m will help, if he eats any of the foods too often or in excess the sensitivities will come back.
She also agreed that don't worry about feeding him for the next few months and to give him gut rest. Which I geuss is what the allergist at Stanford Children's Hospital are saying in just a different way.

She said probiotics often help. I'm afraid that he'll be allergic to those too.

But I feel like the Stanford Doctors who while they acknowledge delayed food allergies say not much is known about them....aren't being pro active enough.

I know IgG testing is not as accurate but isn't it a starting pt? Isn't there something we can do?

I don't want to keep trying new foods b/c he is seeming to become allergic to everything with time. And I think the Stanford Doctors and Homeopathic/MD both think that resting his gut will help. But I am just so confused. Nobody I know has allergies and allergic to everything is blowing my mind!

I want to cry b/c he wants to eat and all I can give him is formula =(

I hope you could help. Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

Arati

Your story is so familiar







And we are healing









Please, read my story over here, about my 1st son:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ad.php?t=97824 There's some great advice there, and unfortunately, some members deleted their posts so it gets kinda confusing. BUT, I can tell you that we are on the path to healing, and I so wish I did this diet when my 4 yr old was your son's age. It would have tons easier.

Much love to you,
Amy


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

To the mama who was posting for her dh: Celiac disease is an autoimmune disease. Repeated exposure-even minimal exposure will tear up the lining of the intestine and further him on the path to malnutrition. He may be getting "hidden" exposure, or he may be finding that it's all just catching up with him. How long since he was diagnosed? You said he's ben GF for a couple of years-how long did he have symptoms before the diagnosis? What's his diet like? Is he doing anything to heal himself? What supplements is he taking, if any? IF he is becoming deficient in nutrients it would absolutely cause lethargy. But, celiac disease can progress and some people display neurological impairment. Has anything else changed? IS it possible he has a fungal overgrowth or a bacterial infection? Has he recently been on any meds, prescription or over the counter? Does he feel like he's getting enough oxygen?

Nutrients I would be looking at off the bat are iron and B vitamins (especially B-12 which it is difficult to absorb no matter what you eat if you have a damaged gut)

I am beyond exhausted-so I hope this made sense. Perhaps I can post something more coherent tomorrow.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Amy D, thanks for the link to your story. I followed many links there to read Jane's story and about amalgam filling removal and hair testing and NAET, and homeopathy, and elimination diet info, etc. etc.

It was fascinating. Much of the story is the same as ours, but I didn't have you all helping me through it. Glad I found this thread.

Pat


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Annikate-it's natural calm, baby!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Thanks firefaery. I ordered some tonight. Got the flavored kind. Hey, shouldn't you be sleeping?


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## arelyn (Mar 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Arelyn, You might examine what type of vitamin and mineral supplementation he utilitizing? I am no celiac expert, but I know that the B-vitamins are challenging to optimize through foods. And Magnesium, Calcium, Zinc and Iron are all associated with lethargy when depleted. Has he tried dosing with any Vit. C or echinecea? Has the allergen exposure in the environment changed recently? We had Spring about a month ago and many people were feeling the assault on their immune system. I am assuming he eats red meat, since you didn't mention it. That is high in iron and zinc. But, Magnesium and Calcium are more difficult to get adequately in the diet, unless prioritized.

HTH, Pat

The meat here is sold in stalls with no refrigeration so he doesn't eat it. He also doesn't take any vitamins except the occassional Tums and today he took half of a prenatal (we'll split them for a couple weeks to see if it helps). The weather has been uneventful, the pollution levels lower than normal (it was a holiday last week), and he drinks lots of milk (it's made from powder, not fresh, but the side of the can says it's got all those vitamins in it). We're quite stumped.


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## arelyn (Mar 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
To the mama who was posting for her dh: Celiac disease is an autoimmune disease. Repeated exposure-even minimal exposure will tear up the lining of the intestine and further him on the path to malnutrition. He may be getting "hidden" exposure, or he may be finding that it's all just catching up with him. How long since he was diagnosed? You said he's ben GF for a couple of years-how long did he have symptoms before the diagnosis? What's his diet like? Is he doing anything to heal himself? What supplements is he taking, if any? IF he is becoming deficient in nutrients it would absolutely cause lethargy. But, celiac disease can progress and some people display neurological impairment. Has anything else changed? IS it possible he has a fungal overgrowth or a bacterial infection? Has he recently been on any meds, prescription or over the counter? Does he feel like he's getting enough oxygen?

Nutrients I would be looking at off the bat are iron and B vitamins (especially B-12 which it is difficult to absorb no matter what you eat if you have a damaged gut)

I am beyond exhausted-so I hope this made sense. Perhaps I can post something more coherent tomorrow.

Pardon the double posting. I didn't notice this until after I already posted







.

DH was never formally diagnosed though the doctor agrees he probably has it. His Mom was diagnosed and he decided to try cutting the gluten. He didn't notice a change after a couple weeks, went back on gluten, and it hit him like a brickwall!! He promptly went back off and hasn't eaten it on prupose since. Over time the symptoms he'd had since he hit puberty went away ( so about ten years with really mild, yet textbook symptoms). The last time he had a major "accident" was over a year ago. He's really sensitive though and he's been able to tell when some "stabilizer" or "thickener" or mystery ingredient is glutenated. Still, he hasn't had a minute amount in months.

Our diet is GF and vegetarian (he has chicken and fish when we're at places that are REALLY sanitary). He's been sleeping through breakfast so only coffee when he get's up before lunch. Lunch is usually rice and curries or an omlette with veggies. Dinner is variable. It usually contains rice or rice based products, fake meat curry, dahl and/or grated coconut with chili powder or chopped greens and fruit. Sometimes for a change we'll have boiled potatoes with yogurt and green onion.

It is totally possible that we both have "a fungal overgrowth or a bacterial infection." I figured it was unrelated but we've had this mystery rash, that started exactly like jock itch on DH. Also, I've been loosing hair. I thought it was the after effects of the Dengue Fever we had four months ago but maybe it's related to Mike's fatigue.

No meds or anything on that line except the occassional Tums. No trouble breathing either. The mention of B-12 makes me nervous. I was just wondering if I have enough. We both eat lots of curd and milk (from powder) so I thought I was just being over-worried about my diet and hopfully impending pregnancy. Maybe we should go to a doctor and get our blood checked. I hate the idea of doing that though







. Needles are NOT my friend.

Oh, adn that was totally coherent. Thanks!!


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Arlyn, My 2 cents worth...
Powdered milk products are pretty bad. I understand you are trying to avoid infections from meat and dairy but fake food is even worse. At least real milk has good bacteria and enzymes that will cancel out bad bugs. Yogurt is really good, but I mean real yogurt.
It seems like you eat a lot of rice. Is it white? Do you soak it before cooking?
It sounds like you both have yeast (candida) issues and rice and complex carbs will make things worse. The healing the gut cheat sheet has info on candida symptoms and remedies. If you are determined not to eat meat make sure you get enough real dairy, cheese, eggs, coconuts, coconut oil. And definitely supplement with B12 as you are not eating meat and liver. Methylcobalamin is more absorbable than cyanocobalamin.
Stay away from any form of sugar, starches (potatoes, rice,). Eat plenty of veggies, limit sweet fruits. A diet like SCD might be helpful for you guys, too.
Hope your DH will get better. Gluten is sneeky, you really have to read labels or just get whole foods and make everything from scratch.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arelyn*
It is totally possible that we both have "a fungal overgrowth or a bacterial infection." I figured it was unrelated but we've had this mystery rash, that started exactly like jock itch on DH. Also, I've been loosing hair. I thought it was the after effects of the Dengue Fever we had four months ago but maybe it's related to Mike's fatigue.

No meds or anything on that line except the occassional Tums. No trouble breathing either. The mention of B-12 makes me nervous. I was just wondering if I have enough. We both eat lots of curd and milk (from powder) so I thought I was just being over-worried about my diet and hopfully impending pregnancy. Maybe we should go to a doctor and get our blood checked. I hate the idea of doing that though







. Needles are NOT my friend.

Totally OT, but......you've had Dengue fever? Holy cow, woman!

EBG gave some great advice - I just wanted to add that taking a look at the tums is a good idea too. Not _just_ for what's in it, but keeping in mind what it does to your gut's natural microflora - it's harder for your good bacteria to survive in an environment that is being alkalinated.

At the risk of carrying a hammer and thinking now that every problem is a nail







, it does seem like SCD could really help your family determine what a baseline would look like in your health. My symptoms are more acne-related, but I was definately puzzled when cutting out gluten didn't make any difference, and have been astounded by what SCD has done for me. I never would have suspected potatoes, rice or peanut butter.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arelyn*
The meat here is sold in stalls with no refrigeration so he doesn't eat it. He also doesn't take any vitamins except the occassional Tums and today he took half of a prenatal (we'll split them for a couple weeks to see if it helps). The weather has been uneventful, the pollution levels lower than normal (it was a holiday last week), and he drinks lots of milk (it's made from powder, not fresh, but the side of the can says it's got all those vitamins in it). We're quite stumped.

Evidently, the consumption of calcium without Magnesium can cause an inbalance. Here is a list of Magnesium amounts in foods: http://www.healthyeatingclub.com/inf...ta/data5d.html Milk only has about 25mg/cup and we need about 400mg a day. That is 16 cups of milk to get enough. Here are foods high in magnesium.http://www.ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/magnesium.asp Most multivitamins do not have significant amounts of Magnesium.

It is hard to eat enough iron too without meat. Here is a list of foods high in iron. He needs about 10 mg EVERY day. http://www.bloodbook.com/iron-foods.html The "Total Cereal" that is listed is a specific American brand of cereal fortified with iron. You might check for a fortified cereal as a food source. Oops, I forgot about the gluten issue. Iron is hard to get adequately froom none meat sources, especially without grains! You might check into packaged meat products perhaps? I'd test for a low blood iron before supplementing a man though. Iron through supplementation can become toxic.

HTH, Pat


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Hey, that list cocoa powder has VERY high MAgnesium









So I can eat the new chocolate bars with 70% or 80% cocoa, right


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Nicolas's mom-don't laugh! Raw (unsweetened, unprocessed) cacao is where we get our dietary magnesium. Getting raw means it hasn't been stripped or processed with alkali-it's great in smoothies. We also use it to make fudge and several other treats.

B-12-major issue. I would absolutely get levels checked, but refer to Gale Force's posts to find out which test to ask for for best results. If you aren't absorbing it, a supplement may not help all that much. It won't hurt-but it may just be wasted money. Methylcobalamin is the form you would want though. ANd it wouldn't matter if you were eating liver at every meal if you aren't able to use it. It is absorbed in the last part of the intestines, and if the villi are too damaged you aren't going to get it-period. At that point they can give injections (assuming it's a probelm...)

I have never seen a fake meat product that was gluten free-are you certain you aren't getting contaminated? Regardless the rash does suggest a depressed immune system and an underlying problem that needs to be addressed. The diet could really help-I'm just not sure how easily you can do it given the conditions...

Milk from powder is NOT your friend! Sorry, but man, all those vitamins on the side of the tin are synthetic and likely not being used by your body anyway. Do you have a gluten issue? You sound like your hormones may be involved at this point. I lost alot of hair with gluten exposure as all the damage did eventually mess with my thyroid, liver and pituitary glands. I know you don't have it...but gut damage is gut damage regardless.

I would get checked. Celiac disease can lead to so many problems, cirrhosis, cancer, the list goes on and on. It's better to get good info now and deal with it if you can. Dietary changes could make ALL the difference-but you need to know what you are up against.

Yes-I should have been sleeping. Unfortunately being 8 months pregnant isn't agreeing with me right now. I'm exhausted-but laying down is SO uncomfortable. Ugh. Better luck tonight, eh?


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicholas_mom*
Hey, that list cocoa powder has VERY high MAgnesium









So I can eat the new chocolate bars with 70% or 80% cocoa, right









Sorry, you can't eat chocolate if you're on SCD or following NT - there are substances in cocoa itself which are bad for the gut. I love chocolate but I had to give it up.... it definitely makes things worse for me.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

This is true...however I haven't found out if it applies to raw as well. We use enzymes for our supplement cheats, and this is one of our supplements. I have found a couple of studies, but nothing that would make me say, "if you are doing SCD with fanatical adherence you can do *raw* cacao." I know the alkali is a major source of problems, but raw doesn't have it. No sugar or sweetener of any kind either...still looking.

Articles mention the physiological effects of chocolate being close to cocaine-it's not true of raw. Scientific studies have shown this to be true over and over again-it isn't altered and doesnt' have the addictive quality. Theobromine doesn't seem to be an issue either. IT's really hard to weed through though. Just like there is misinformation about any supplement which can make it difficult. I'm always searching for reliable sources.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

According to NT, foods rich in iron:
eggs, fish, liver, meat and green leafy vegetables. Also if you take a high vitamin fat like butter or cod liver oil, the iron absorption is better.
So if you eat a lot of eggs and cooked spinach, it's good, maybe you can add fish or fish eggs? Are you avoiding meat for sanotary issues? You can buy a whole chicken and butcher it yourself.









Cal-Mag ratio should be 2:1 , I think. I take Nature's Life Super Cal-Mag.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

The green leafies don't really apply to spinach in terms of iron. The high oxalic acid content inhibits iron absorption. Kale, beet greens, mustard greens or swiss chard are better sources. That said cooking destroys *some* of the acid, not much, and baby greens will have less...if you are looking for iron boosters though-go for the others. Alfalfa and nettles are also very high in iron.

If you can't get liver-you could possibly get a good supplement that has liver in it for the purposes of iron boosting. I have one I really like if that's an option.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicholas_mom*
Hey, that list cocoa powder has VERY high MAgnesium









So I can eat the new chocolate bars with 70% or 80% cocoa, right









Actually, I was delighted to read that also! I had always heard that chocolate was high in Mg, but didn't realize how *healthy* it was.







Apparently, many women crave chocolate during PMS and this may be why. Oh, I just read that magnesium levels are at their lowest during menstration.







http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.asp?ID=2060

Pat


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Quote:

Nicolas's mom-don't laugh! Raw (unsweetened, unprocessed) cacao is where we get our dietary magnesium. Getting raw means it hasn't been stripped or processed with alkali-it's great in smoothies. We also use it to make fudge and several other treats.
Firefaery, where or what kind of raw cocoa do you get? Are they in health food stores or do you buy them on the internet?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

My whole foods carries it-but it's new and I'm not sure how instrumental my whining was in that







I tend to get it from Nature's First Law. IT also contains tryptophan which is necessary for producing seratonin...an amino acid that is often used in treating depression. Again though-it is NOT SCD legal. I used it with enzymes and have done the diet for quite a long time ( of course half the time was as a vegan...does that still count???







)


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Just wanted to add that on an SCD list I'm on, someone said that there was a controversy about whether unsweetened cocoa should be SCD legal or not, although I'm not sure what that was based on, other than they didn't do enough research either way. Not that I'm saying it's ok.

Does anyone mind if I complain, yet again, about my dh? He has never really been on board about the SCD, although he usually doesn't bring much illegal stuff home (other than his Energy drinks, like Sobe). But he lately has been saying I spend too much time in the kitchen, that I'm going to give ds an eating disorder because I go in there to escape from him and he's going to associate my cooking and eating with my abandoning him. Sigh. I tell you, sometimes I feel like I'm living with an enemy.

He said this to me last Friday, only a couple days after ds and I got back from our week long trip to see dh's family. DH wouldn't come, and it turns out it's in part because he's ashamed of ds's behavior, and blames me. Says I made ds the way he is because I don't stand up to him, and never did CIO. Is there anything less supportive than that? Oh, and he had the nerve to expect sex from me that evening. As if he'd never said anything.

I told him we needed marriage counseling, and he essentially said it's all my problem, that I'm depressed and that I need to get individual counseling. That since I've been off Prozac (not long after ds was born), my personality has changed, that I don't smile, laugh, or have any energy. That I'm too sensitive and that he never knows what might offend me. Sigh. I actually feel like I don't know my husband anymore, and feel not much positive for him. I do sometimes feel down, but nothing like I have in the past. Mostly just disillusioned with life and dh. Is this depression again?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Pookietooth, it may be depression but it sure sounds like even a person who didn't stuggle w/depression would feel sad about your dh's lack of support.

Speaking of depression/anxiety: I have struggled w/this for many years myself and have been reluctant to post about it here on this thread but can I just say that the SCD has really helped. I do take lexapro but have since cut my dose in 1/2 to only 5 mg. for the last several months. I really feel I don't need it anymore but want to be sure my diet contains what my body needs yk?

firefaery, I read your story and know that you struggled w/this too. Have you noticed SCD helping also? What other things did you find helpful? I'm also intrigued about the chocolate (cocoa).

Edited to say: Now I don't remember if it was firefaery's story or AmyD's story. . . .


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Read the rest of the thread and found the answers to my questions.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Just wanted to add that on an SCD list I'm on, someone said that there was a controversy about whether unsweetened cocoa should be SCD legal or not, although I'm not sure what that was based on, other than they didn't do enough research either way. Not that I'm saying it's ok.

Does anyone mind if I complain, yet again, about my dh? He has never really been on board about the SCD, although he usually doesn't bring much illegal stuff home (other than his Energy drinks, like Sobe). But he lately has been saying I spend too much time in the kitchen, that I'm going to give ds an eating disorder because I go in there to escape from him and he's going to associate my cooking and eating with my abandoning him. Sigh. I tell you, sometimes I feel like I'm living with an enemy.

He said this to me last Friday, only a couple days after ds and I got back from our week long trip to see dh's family. DH wouldn't come, and it turns out it's in part because he's ashamed of ds's behavior, and blames me. Says I made ds the way he is because I don't stand up to him, and never did CIO. Is there anything less supportive than that? Oh, and he had the nerve to expect sex from me that evening. As if he'd never said anything.

I told him we needed marriage counseling, and he essentially said it's all my problem, that I'm depressed and that I need to get individual counseling. That since I've been off Prozac (not long after ds was born), my personality has changed, that I don't smile, laugh, or have any energy. That I'm too sensitive and that he never knows what might offend me. Sigh. I actually feel like I don't know my husband anymore, and feel not much positive for him. I do sometimes feel down, but nothing like I have in the past. Mostly just disillusioned with life and dh. Is this depression again?

You and I should get together and talk.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Pookietooth,

There are so many major life changes after a child is born and we DO change. We are no longer isolated adults sharing a life, we are always a mother 24/7. This role takes its tole if we do not have the supportive resources to share the caregiving. Dh and I have been married 23 years.







I would say that the number one book that I would recommend is "The Five Love Languages". http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188...lance&n=283155 The gist of the book is that each of us receives love in different ways. And we may believe that we are *giving* love, but if the receiver needs to feel love in a different way, it isn't received. For instance, my husband receives love from words of affirmation and acts of service. Our son receives love from physical touch and receiving gifts. I receive love from acts of service and quality time. So, if my husband is giving me gifts, I might not *feel* loved. Or if ds is receiving lots of quality time, but not getting his physical touch needs met, then he wouldn't feel that he were *receiving* love.

The book helps to identify eaches' own way of receiving love so that we can be sure that we are giving the love in ways that it can be received. It sounds like your husband probably prefers physical touch and quality time. With a child, I know that often I have felt 'touched out' and exhausted, so any left over time was needed for sleep, not "quality" engagement with dh. If you can find ways to meet these needs of his, I bet that he would be able to offer you the words of affirmation that it sounds like you prefer. (I highly recommend a mother's helper during the day to get some 'me' time. I had a girl come 2 hours, twice a week. It was cheaper than counselling. I recommend it too though. I have gained a lot from having that *me* time.)

Another insightful book was "Getting the Love That You Want". http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006...lance&n=283155 The focus is how when we meet our partner's needs for the love that they want and need, then they are able and desire to love us in the ways that we want and need. This is a synergistic effect of 'getting back what you give'.

I don't want to be dismissing your needs for his support, but wanted to share what I found is the key to an effective reciprocal relationship. Although, I *know* this to be true for us; it is much harder for me to do than to suggest.







Oh, and I wanted to mention my allegory of marriage. I consider it a rollercoaster. There are always ups and downs. When our marriage has felt most down, I consciously choose to focus on how wonderful our companionship felt in the past when it was very UP. And when I feel 'how wonderful being in a relationship with dh is, I focus on holding that feeling for when I *know* our marriage will feel very down again sometime in the future.

By recognizing the cyclic nature of both the highs and the lows, I don't act on either by assuming that *NOW* is all that defines our relationship.

I hope my journey helps you to find a path back to a mutually satisfying relationship.









Best wishes, Pat

P.S. And chocolate always helps.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

The diet definitely has helped me, but it wasn't something I did through diet alone. Once you get to a certain point you need something extra-whether it's prescription drugs or supplements-to get you to the healing stage. I did homeopathy and bach flowers along with high doses of B vitamins, magnesium (great for depression if you are deficient) omega 3's, glutamine and inositol. When that wasn't working enough I got a new constiutional remedy (which will help to heal the gut faster) and added 5-HTP and GABA. IT's a pretty big difference. Eventually I'll be able to wean off the supplements, but not until my gut is really healed.

Pookietooth- we have gone through something similar. I changed completely once I got pregnant-even I noticed. I pretty much sabotaged our relationship. My dh is very supportive, but can only take so much. We did some counseling, and it was slightly helpful. It wasn't until he saw my homeopath too and got his remedy (and a really great listening ear) that we turned the corner. He didn't understand how much of my life was controlled by depression. He kept telling me that even though I was depressed I was making an active choice to be a jerk. Well, that's depression, man! OF course we've had our share of stresses (sick kid, my malnutrition, loss of our business, deaths in the family, major illnesses etc.) but things have really changed since I have taken these steps. Sorry things are so tough. It's really important to understand that this is unfamiliar territory for him too, and he's probably really confused and scared about you and your babe. Not that it justifies it, and it doesn't help you at all, but there is that to consider.

You may well be sinking down again-but there are many things you can do to support yourself. Gale Force (Amanda) is really a huge help in this area.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Pookietooth, it may be depression but it sure sounds like even a person who didn't stuggle w/depression would feel sad about your dh's lack of support.

Speaking of depression/anxiety: I have struggled w/this for many years myself and have been reluctant to post about it here on this thread but can I just say that the SCD has really helped. I do take lexapro but have since cut my dose in 1/2 to only 5 mg. for the last several months. I really feel I don't need it anymore but want to be sure my diet contains what my body needs yk?

firefaery, I read your story and know that you struggled w/this too. Have you noticed SCD helping also? What other things did you find helpful? I'm also intrigued about the chocolate (cocoa).

I'd love to hear more about this too. I struggle w/ depression and anxiety and am not currently taking anything. I am really trying to work on other ways to deal w/ it but haven't found a real good solution yet. I have been working toward the SCD and plan to start it soon. I just need to get everything together and find the money to get a good start so I cam do it religiously in the beginning.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Interesting that so many here are battling depression. Count me among them. I have been on Zoloft for about a month now (after trying Prozac and Lexapro and getting too many undesirable side effects). I would really like to not need any meds, and hopefully won't be on them too long, but so far it IS helping. And I will take that help.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Does this sound okay for food for the intro SCD? Eggs, tuna steak, cooked carrots, and a little grape juice. I bought gelatin to make jello but I'm not sure if I'll do that or not.

I bought some bananas, applesauce, French cut green beans, acorn squash and asparagus to add in over the course of the week, too, though I'll have to head back to the HFS for more fresh fish at some point.

Also, the HFS didn't carry dry curd cottage cheese. Does anyone know where I could order them online?


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arelyn*
Dinner is variable. It usually contains rice or rice based products,*fake meat curry,* dahl and/or grated coconut with chili powder or chopped greens and fruit. Sometimes for a change we'll have boiled potatoes with yogurt and green onion.

What do you mean by "fake meat" curry? Over here our fake meat products are almost always made by some wheat gluten or some kind.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Does this sound okay for food for the intro SCD? Eggs, tuna steak, cooked carrots, and a little grape juice. I bought gelatin to make jello but I'm not sure if I'll do that or not.

I bought some bananas, applesauce, French cut green beans, acorn squash and asparagus to add in over the course of the week, too, though I'll have to head back to the HFS for more fresh fish at some point.

Also, the HFS didn't carry dry curd cottage cheese. Does anyone know where I could order them online?

I highly recommend some kind of stock - very nourishing. I never ate gelatin before SCD but now I find it to be a great snack.

If you can't get DCCC you can always make the 24-hour yogurt and drain out the whey. Are you not eating chicken?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Unfortunately it's not all that interesting once you understand the interrelation of the gut and brain. A damaged gut leads very quickly to depression. Enzymes for Autism explains this better than almost any other book I've read.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Found the raw chocolate on amazon... Do you get the beans or the nibs??? Wondering if my whole foods is carrying it and if it is worth a try. We are working on getting more mag into us but my "guts" think we got too much yesterday









I think that depression is a very logical side effect of having a damaged gut. I was on medication for my depression for several years but then decided that I didn't want it any more. I have since tried various natural things with more and less sucess. I really don't feel like it is an issue in my life right now.

What helped me
Natural Progesterone Cream -I didn't use it for the depression but it made a huge impact probably the first cycle using it.
L-Theanine- Anxiety
Rescue Remedy-anxiety

Hmmm... Can't remember what else right now.

5-htp helped my dh a ton, I think that before he tried that he was using melatonin and found benefit from that as well, but he doesn't sleep well when he is depressed and that helps sleep.

Not sure what else but oh we shifted our diets several years ago to be much less dependant on starchy carbs and that also helped. I know that if I am getting sugar it makes me nuts. That has been true for years, not sure how much of that is the yeast talking but I just have to stay away from too much sugar esp if it isn't balanced with some protein and fat.

I personally didn't trust the studies showing those drugs to be safe for long term therapy and esp while pg/bfing. I do think they are better than subjecting your family to ppp but if I can survive w/o them I will. Fish oil also helped me. And just getting rid of some significant pain issues also helped. It is pretty depressing to be 30 years old and riding arround walmart on an electric cart becasue you are in too much pain to walk. Or to have to choose between being in debilitating pain and or taking your pain meds that make you too loopy to drive yourself anywhere. Thankfully that is apparently a closed chapter in my life.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Oh does anyone know if I make the cream cheese from raw milk ala nt will that be lactose free enough to use for the dccc?

And anyone have any ideas for culturing juice? I'm now feeling like that could be another source of probiotics in our life but i'm not sure how to do it. NT has a lot of recipes assuming you are starting from raw juice. I have pasturized juice and I want to improve it. Any ideas? I have some milk kefir grains, could i use those? What else? Should I post this on the NT thread?


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Does this sound okay for food for the intro SCD? Eggs, tuna steak, cooked carrots, and a little grape juice. I bought gelatin to make jello but I'm not sure if I'll do that or not.

I bought some bananas, applesauce, French cut green beans, acorn squash and asparagus to add in over the course of the week, too, though I'll have to head back to the HFS for more fresh fish at some point.

Also, the HFS didn't carry dry curd cottage cheese. Does anyone know where I could order them online?

I stay away from tuna b/c of the mercury. When we eat fish we mainly eat wild salmon, sockeye if possible. Unfortunately the sugar free smoked salmon that is local is farmed. We have to drive out to NH to get some goat milk butter and pick up their wild smoked salmon that is sugar free the next time we are that way. My 4 yr old devours the stuff









How do you make jello? I just picked up the unorganic stuff, thanks scubamom. I'm bummed b/c it is not the chemicals in the unorganic stuff that bothers me as much as the factory farming that it represents. Sigh.

But would love a jello recipe







I'm sure my kids would love it


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

The rasberry mousse recipe in btvc is really really yummy. For making jello just follow the recipe on the gelitan. I omit the suggested sugar/honey. I also put it in anything I am making with broth to give the broth a boost.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Has anyone else found your veggie horizons expanding since starting this diet? Last night we ate baby leeks as a veggie (yummy!) I thought they were baby beets based on the sign at the store or I probably wouldn't have bought them (I knew they didn't look right but I thought they must just change a lot as they matured.







)

I'm eating way more non green veggies than I ever did before. I'm sure that once we can have grains again we still won't depend on them like we do now (although I am longing for a good big plate of pasta.







) Even the rice stuff sounds good to me right now.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
The rasberry mousse recipe in btvc is really really yummy. For making jello just follow the recipe on the gelitan. I omit the suggested sugar/honey. I also put it in anything I am making with broth to give the broth a boost.

Great to know!! I've been







over that recipe for some time. And I'm all over those sliced apples in yogurt and egg custard thing


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Oh, and that was my story that I posted a couple of pages back. Well, my DS's story. I haven't read it in awhile, so not sure if I posted about my depression, but I was depressed for some time. Coincidentally, I was also on birth control pills--coinky dink, I think not







But after the depression cleared after lots of drugs helped minimally (finally stopped the BC pills







due to $, ended up pregnant w/my son







) BUT the depression cleared, only to be greeted w/anxiety---which is so awful. I personally prefered the depression, b/c the anxiety was all encompassing and painful. At least w/the depression I was too tired and depressed to care, but the anxiety was debilitating, at least for me of course. Nightmares, anxious thoughts CONSTANTLY, anywho it was a freakin' nightmare in itself.

I saw my homeopath, and after the one visit, and a couple of tune-ups after some time, I'm totally anxiety free. And after my 2nd son's birth I ate a good portion of my placenta (raw) and I really think that helped even me out.

hth
Amy


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

*Ladies with depression and gut problems --*

The first thing I would look at is B vitamins since deficiencies in those are associated with both conditions. An indicator of B6 deficiency is an inability to recall your dreams at night. B12 and folic acid don't usually have signs until you're really low. Other Bs are important. Since you post on this thread, you've got digestive problems so you really need a B supplement that's easily absorbed -- sublingual or liquid. You won't find a liquid without sugar and I'm not sure I know of one that's SCD legal. Perhaps firefaery has found something.

Omega 3s are the other thing that pretty much everyone is low in and it's associated with depression. Huge doses are being used in research -- anywhere from 1 to 20 grams of EPA a day. Stoll in The Omega Connection (on depression) recommends 4 grams of EPA a day. Best to find a low vitamin cod liver oil if you are going to take high doses. I like Nordic Naturals liquid. Vitacost.com has good prices.

Minerals. You aren't absorbing those well either if you are on this thread. Magnesium and zinc are the biggest issues. Low magnesium is associated with muscle spasms, jerking, and twitching. Low zinc with slow growing nails and hair and white spots on nails. Vegetarians tend to be a bit lower in zinc than omnis. Chelated amino acid forms of the minerals are probably your best bet in terms of absorbability -- mag citrate, malate, glycinate, etc.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Today my dd had the first formed, good poop she's had in months!







She's been through some pretty significant die-off the last couple of days; sweating profusely while napping, and she had the tantrum to beat all tantrums yesterday. But . . . payoff today! yipee. I never expected to see results this quick. I'm so excited!

She had been pooping on the potty months ago and then went through another bout of severe constipation (and then months of mushy poops) so I'm hoping that once this is settled, she'll be willing to try the potty again.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
I stay away from tuna b/c of the mercury. When we eat fish we mainly eat wild salmon, sockeye if possible. Unfortunately the sugar free smoked salmon that is local is farmed. We have to drive out to NH to get some goat milk butter and pick up their wild smoked salmon that is sugar free the next time we are that way. My 4 yr old devours the stuff









How do you make jello? I just picked up the unorganic stuff, thanks scubamom. I'm bummed b/c it is not the chemicals in the unorganic stuff that bothers me as much as the factory farming that it represents. Sigh.

But would love a jello recipe







I'm sure my kids would love it









The ahi tuna steaks are supposed to be wild caught, so I was hoping this made them less toxic. Anyone know for sure? I like salmon too so I could buy that next time.

I have never actually made jello, but I was going to follow the directions on the box!


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
I highly recommend some kind of stock - very nourishing. I never ate gelatin before SCD but now I find it to be a great snack.

If you can't get DCCC you can always make the 24-hour yogurt and drain out the whey. Are you not eating chicken?

I'm not eating chicken because I'm going from being a vegetarian for 11 years and a vegan for over 3...so eggs and fish are a big enough leap for me!


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Does anyone know where I could find a source of raw goat's milk? Our HFS has pasteurized goat's milk, but from what I'm reading it sounds like raw is healthier.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
The ahi tuna steaks are supposed to be wild caught, so I was hoping this made them less toxic. Anyone know for sure?

Yes, wild fish has fewer toxins than their farmed equivalent. I don't have any #s right here on ahi tuna.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
The first thing I would look at is B vitamins since deficiencies in those are associated with both conditions. An indicator of B6 deficiency is an inability to recall your dreams at night. B12 and folic acid don't usually have signs until you're really low. Other Bs are important. Since you post on this thread, you've got digestive problems so you really need a B supplement that's easily absorbed -- sublingual or liquid. You won't find a liquid without sugar and I'm not sure I know of one that's SCD legal. Perhaps firefaery has found something.

Omega 3s are the other thing that pretty much everyone is low in and it's associated with depression. Huge doses are being used in research -- anywhere from 1 to 20 grams of EPA a day. Stoll in The Omega Connection (on depression) recommends 4 grams of EPA a day. Best to find a low vitamin cod liver oil if you are going to take high doses. I like Nordic Naturals liquid. Vitacost.com has good prices.

Minerals. You aren't absorbing those well either if you are on this thread. Magnesium and zinc are the biggest issues. Low magnesium is associated with muscle spasms, jerking, and twitching. Low zinc with slow growing nails and hair and white spots on nails. Vegetarians tend to be a bit lower in zinc than omnis. Chelated amino acid forms of the minerals are probably your best bet in terms of absorbability -- mag citrate, malate, glycinate, etc.
Amanda, thanks for all that info. No wonder I'm feeling better! I've been doing all of those things. I've often wondered if I could be getting too much Omega 3s. Guess not.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Does anyone know where I could find a source of raw goat's milk? Our HFS has pasteurized goat's milk, but from what I'm reading it sounds like raw is healthier.

http://www.realmilk.com

Should be able to help you locate sources.

I thought you had said that about being veg, but I couldn't remember...I believe you can still make stock from veggies though, just take out the celery and onion after it is made.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Amanda, thanks for all that info. No wonder I'm feeling better! I've been doing all of those things. I've often wondered if I could be getting too much Omega 3s. Guess not.

It's hardly possible.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
*Ladies with depression and gut problems --*

The first thing I would look at is B vitamins since deficiencies in those are associated with both conditions. An indicator of B6 deficiency is an inability to recall your dreams at night. B12 and folic acid don't usually have signs until you're really low. Other Bs are important. Since you post on this thread, you've got digestive problems so you really need a B supplement that's easily absorbed -- sublingual or liquid. You won't find a liquid without sugar and I'm not sure I know of one that's SCD legal. Perhaps firefaery has found something.

Do you just dose per bottle instructions, or higher?

Quote:

Omega 3s are the other thing that pretty much everyone is low in and it's associated with depression. Huge doses are being used in research -- anywhere from 1 to 20 grams of EPA a day. Stoll in The Omega Connection (on depression) recommends 4 grams of EPA a day. Best to find a low vitamin cod liver oil if you are going to take high doses. I like Nordic Naturals liquid. Vitacost.com has good prices.
Hmmm, I just ordered Blue Ice. Maybe I will just try to give that to the kids and order some NN. If I take a high enough dose of NN for dealing with depression, will I be getting enough vit A&D by default?

Quote:

Minerals. You aren't absorbing those well either if you are on this thread. Magnesium and zinc are the biggest issues. Low magnesium is associated with muscle spasms, jerking, and twitching. Low zinc with slow growing nails and hair and white spots on nails. Vegetarians tend to be a bit lower in zinc than omnis. Chelated amino acid forms of the minerals are probably your best bet in terms of absorbability -- mag citrate, malate, glycinate, etc.
If I do not have any of these symtoms, would this mean that I am not deficient?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Do you just dose per bottle instructions, or higher?

Hmmm, I just ordered Blue Ice. Maybe I will just try to give that to the kids and order some NN. If I take a high enough dose of NN for dealing with depression, will I be getting enough vit A&D by default?


To take enough of the NN to get the recomended minimum of 20,000 iu of vitamin A daily for healing it is like an entire box every day. Better bet would be to take both together. Some of the high vitamin stuff and some of the high efa stuff every day.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

moonshine--
Let's see if firefaery has a rec on a SCD-friendly B and look at the dose. (no pressure on firefaery. we can all search for something otherwise and I'll have to learn more about SCD)

On the CLO, it depends on how much you take. Watch the A and D. Some people use a combination of a regular CLO and a lower vitamin like NN, some people take such large amounts that NN would give them plenty. Start adding up the cost of the CLO at these large doses and that might tell you where your limit is.

On the minerals, dollars-to-dougnuts you are low in magnesium because the western diet is these days. But with a lot of fresh vegetables, you probably get enough magnesium. If you eat meat you probably are getting enough zinc. But in both of these cases, you might benefit from some supplementation, it's hard to say. I wouldn't over-do it on any minerals. Both metametrix.com and doctorsdata.com offer red blood cell tests for minerals that would be really good to get for anyone with serious health or mental health issues.

How bad is your depression? If you are struggling a lot, you might consider amino acid therapy as well. Here's my amino acid thread.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I need a new calcium rec.

I just ordered some natural calm mag last night so now what's a good calcium to get?

I was taking Kirkman's cal/mag liquid and it really made a difference in how I feel.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
To take enough of the NN to get the recomended minimum of 20,000 iu of vitamin A daily for healing it is like an entire box every day. Better bet would be to take both together. Some of the high vitamin stuff and some of the high efa stuff every day.

And best to get the liquid for the sake of cost at these high doses.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Amanda,
Thank you so much for sharing that thread.







All you ladies here are awesome.


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

this afternoon DD had a firmish poopie. In it were the undigested raisins & dried cranberries she ate this morning. They were whole & somewhat plumped up. Besides indicating that she didn't chew them does this mean there is something else going on with her digestion that she not digesting the raisins.

She's 2.5 yrs old.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

i did lots of omega threes while pregnant for depression--i think it's the only thing that helped these girls. i posted at the beginning of the april thread about my depression/anxiety. taking all these supplements is awfully familiar--i used to take so many pills! but i'm convinced my depression is nutritional. i've felt better since i started NT in january, and i think i'd be feeling great if i could just find my balance on SCD. i think i've been giving the best food to the girls and not paying enough attention to the fact that i am still nursing them and that is their best and main source of food still (i think--it must be, right?). so i need to figure a way to eat better. made deviled eggs today--that's helping. but i think i have yeast. i did the spit test tonight, and there weren't strands, but heavy bits that slowly sank a little. so i'll see what the morning shows. but i'm guessing that's it and i am CLUELESS as to what to do if i have yeast. the girls had yeasty rashes, which is what really started me on this diet, and their bms used to fit the yeast description.....

so dda has been really sick. the kind of sick that i would have gotten antibiotics for a few months ago. she seems on the mend, but behavior has reverted--not all the way, but it's really upsetting me. it's so hard to tell what's normal and what's caused by something not being right with them. and i have to say, i think if a behavior disturbs me, then it's not "normal," kwim? my 17 m.o. shouldn't be hitting me and trying to hurt me. right? these past few days have sucked. and i think it's partially the rememdies i've been using--lactose based. sigh. so they're out for a while. and only honey on the morning yogurt and in the ketchup. no fruit. i really don't know how/how long to do this. and we're going on a trip next week. it will not be easy. at all.

pookietooth--how long have you been at this? my dh says the same thing about the kitchen. two weeks ago we had a pretty big fight about it. i asked mhim to come to the kitchen with me. he does sometimes now. but we had a year of therapy before the girls were born. otherwise we wouldn't be surviving all this. it's so tough. i hope it gets better for you. dh just started reading sugar blues for me. i think the key for us is getting him to really understand why we're doing this. it's a slow process, but it's starting.

yep--so i've done a cal/mag/zinc, a b complex, and omega 3s (tho i've backed off and may now up it again), in addition to a really good multivitamin (i think it's good anyway), plus the clo and vit c, and i think it's worked really well for my depression and anxiety. i used to have 5 panic attacks a day. that was on conventional medication--i was to sue the @ssholes who told me i needed more more more. i also found a better therapist, but she still medicated me. i haven't seen a therapist for over a year (she failed to identify ppd in me--gah), but, like i said, since i started NT and really focusing on getting nutrition into me, i'm pretty good. i used to FREAK OUT if the girls missed a nap/woke early or if my plans changed. but the other day my sister called saying she had a flat and couldn't come over, and for the first time i didn't freak. i thought, ok, we'll just hang out. it was fine. i hope it's not a fluke because we're getting ready to move to providence, in with my mom while dh starts a new job and we look for a house somewhere in rhode island. i'm a little tense.

sorry for the journal--just so much to respond to!

to any new mamas--try SCD. it can't hurt (i don't think), and it has taught me so much about food. tho i have so much more to learn!

tell me about yeast!

(chlobo--my girls can't digest them either, so, sadly, i'm waiting to give them to them--their former fave snacks!--because supposedly whatever you can't digest is hurting you.)


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

nicolena -- I could go on and on about the stuff that used to bother me that doesn't any more. We can get pretty crazy it seems.

I'll be gone for the weekend starting in the morning, so if I don't respond it's not because I'm ignoring you all.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

I have what is probably a silly question: When going to the next phase of eating, does one need to make sure they tolerate ALL foods on the previous phase before moving on?

As in, in phase 1, bananas are included, but I find they make my stool loose again (at least when I eat more than half of one). Do I have to wait until I can tolerate bananas before moving to phase 2, or can I just skip the bananas and move on? I never really ate them much before SCD, and I'm anxious to have an avacado







:


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I use Designs for Health B Supreme. IT's not a liquid, but it's the one I really felt made the biggest difference for me. I also take a sublingual B-12 in addition-the B-12 in the B Supreme isn't the best form.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Just to make addendums: I just realized that it is cocoa *powder* that is high in magnesium, rather than chocolate bars.







:

We have had excellent emotional support with classical homeopathy. Dh was very depressed and is a new man. I highly recommend seeing a classical homeopath for professional evaluation and proscribing.

We use Sambucol for Kids for colds and any illness. It has echinecea, elderberry extract and propolis to support the immune system, congestion and coughs. I give it at the first sign of sniffles with large doses of Vit. C and we don't get sick. There is Sambucol for Adults also.

Btw, 17 month olds hit. It is an exploratory phase to evaluate the large motor movement. It is fascinating the more effect (ie. reaction) you provide. The key is not to react. Here is a link about this: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...hlight=hitting

Here is a brief list of mercury in fish: http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/b...h?OpenDocument

Pat


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I know we've talked about this before, but for the sake of being repetative...
Depression, as far as I am concerned, is always a nutritional issue. This clicked for me once and for all when I read that all of neurotransmitters found in the brain (think seratonin, dopamine, epinephrine etc.) are manufactured in the gut. If you have gut damage, you may not be making them at all! In which case you NEED to supplement them with SSRI's MAOI's or a natural form of the amino acids responsible for making them. A leaky gut is the quickest way to depression. Also, think about how many studies are being done with schizophrenia being "cured" with a change in diet (usually GF) or even autism being treated this way. It all makes so much sense. One more reason to stay on the healing path.

I just read this last year, and man did it change my perspective on everything! Amanda was already well on her way into this research and was posting many of the things I was just coming across. Just goes to show you once more how everything is interconnected. IT all starts in the gut!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I use both the nibs and the beans for different reasons...if I were only getting one it would be the nibs.
Another bonus is that since it's unprocessed there is no chance of lead contamination!


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Sorry I meant that a very high amount of omega 3 to consume in low vitamin CLO is not good for the body. If you need to take like 10 tablespoons of Nordic Naturals to get 20,000IU of recommended vitamin A.

I am confused about this post by JaneS in relation to the current discussion of Omega 3's, CLO, and vitamin A as they relate to depression. Maybe I am not putting this all together properly but I think it was suggested to use a low vitamin CLO such as NN in high doses to get higher Omega 3's to help depression. Is JaneS's info above contradictory to this? I am not trying to doubt anyone, just clarify







. I don't know how to quote twice in a post so don't have the quote about the CLO and depression. Amanda-I think you were posting about it? Can you clarify for my feeble and exhausted







little brain


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

so, I can't afford the tests for amino acids. Which ones should I experiment with for depression and anxiety, and how much should I start with? Does it matter the brand? If I get frequent migraines, how would that be affected. I know prozac made them worse. Cow's milk makes them worse, even as 24 hour yogurt.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Well, Jane's point was more about the vitamin aspect and NOBODY wants to be taking 10 Tbs of CLO a day. Right, people?







I take high doses of CLO for depression and it amounts to about two Tbs. of one low vitamin and 2 tsp. of another high vitamin (as I am pregnant and nursing) The only "side effect" you will get from that much CLO is an unhappy bowel. So, it's a matter of finding the right combo.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Pookietooth-what you need depends on your specific symptoms. Amanda will be more helpful here. I'm curious to see her response...my gut reaction is that you don't need seratonin. Wondering if she'll agree...

On the website for the Mood Cure there is a test for amino acid deficiencies. Not exactly a gold standard, but a starting point nonetheless. I think it only covers four -but it will give you an idea. I think the site is www.moodcure.com/Questionnaire.html


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

After you take the quiz, go to the side bar and cross reference with the four false mood types for your answers.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

This is OT...
I'm on day 4 of taking Candidase between meals 3 times a day. I haven't noticed any change in me so far, no die-off and no improvement but my bf DD got some white centered red bumps on her tummy. Does this sound like yeast die-off? Is it because the enzymes are going through the breastmilk and killing yeast in her or the dead yeast is going through the milk?


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Another question....
How are you guys finding money to get all these supplements and food! I've been spending 2-3 times as much on food plus I take a bunch of supplements and I'm learning that I need more, I just can't afford it! My DH is very upset about my spending sprees and change in cooking habits. There's no way I can get a job with a 2-y and a 10-month old.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

firefaery - what would you recommend I take in terms of clo? I'm b'feeding and would like to supplement extra for depression. I have Blue Ice and NN both. Right now I'm only taking 1 tsp. Blue Ice. That's probably not enough right?


----------



## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Subbing (and in lots of pain







)
I've been dealing with digestive issues for years. About 4 years ago I had many tests - CDSA and food sensitivity tests. The CDSA showed lots of bad bugs, both bacterial and fungal while the food allergy tests showed I wasn't reacting to many foods I had suspected might have been a cause of my issues (casein and wheat for instance). I started phone consults with Trent Nichols (gastroenterologist who focuses on nutrition) and finally got everything under control. I had been spending oodles of money on supplements and nothing really seemed to make a long term improvement.

It was around this time that I started getting into NT/WAPF and became a chapter leader.

I also suffer from endometriosis which is completely connected to my digestive woes. I'm due any minute for AF and my stomach is a complete wreck.

After getting pg with my daughter I began eating more foods that I know I shouldn't. It was the first time in years that my stomach felt great no matter what I ate so I went hogwild. Obviously it was all because of my immune system being on hold so after I had my daughter my problems came back. I really think there's a hormonal connection (again, all tests have come back normal but I'm guessing it's just not being detected) because I felt great until AF returned when dd was around 1.

My diet is still based on whole foods but I eat just about everything without hesitation. We're heading to France next week and I expect to (and want to) eat without reservation. After I come back I want to start reassessing my health and embark on a short cleanse to get back on track. I'm so tired of feeling like shit all the time. It is affecting every aspect of my life.

ETA: The only supplement I'm currently taking with consistency is Primal Defense. It used to be the one supplement I could count on and now I seem to not be benefiting. I've tried just about every supplement under the sun and am wondering what others think would be my next best choice. Some of the supplements I've tried worked for a while and then didn't and others made me feel worse (enzymes for instance).
I know diet is key so that's where I intend to start but I'm guessing I've got yeast issues to overcome (feeling very yeasty these days - chronic UTIs too) and also REALLY need to heal the lining of my poor, inflammed gut.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

What is sublingual B-12?

I sort of asked this before, but I'm open for more opinions...I'm going to make 24 hr goat yogurt in the next couple of days. I have 2 choices for a starter--commercial goat yogurt which contains goat milk, pectin, tapioca, and live cultures, or yogourmet starter, which obviously contains cow milk. I was thinking about going with the goat yogurt starter even though it contains illegals, so if DD does react to it at least I will know it's not because of the cow dairy. I know neither are ideal, but I want to make sure she can tolerate the goat yogurt before I spend $45 on the dairy free yogurt starter. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Oh, and I'll join the depression club, too--funny how we all have the same issues! I sometimes thought I was losing my mind after DH and I got married, I would be super depressed for no good reason, which had never happened before. I wasn't sure if it was getting married







or the birth control pills I went on right before we got married. Now I'm sure it was a combination of the birth control pills and the antibiotics for acne I went on at the same time as I started BCP. I haven't had too many issues since DD was born, although occasionally I'll still wake up and be a little depressed for no reason.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Oh, and nicolena--I think it is normal for toddlers to hit. Pretty much every toddler I've spent any length of time around has hit at some point. It's just one of those things you have to teach them not to do.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Erikaz, Tuesday evening I attended a class about female hormonal imbalances. The issues that you discuss regarding hormonal levels being normal on blood levels, but symptomatic (pain, moody, endo, tired, etc.) were discussed as *available* hormones BUT poor utilization by the body. Interestingly, cortisol is a huge variable associated with effective uptake of the hormones progesterone (especially), estrogen and testosterone, AND thyroid. High corisol levels cause hormone resistance and block the utilization of the hormones. Many post partum women have disturbances in their cortisol (due to STRESS!!) and thyroid uptake becomes interfered with too, . Evidently, progesterone levels, associated with mood stability, start decreasing precipitously about age 35 naturally. Low progesterone = mood changes.

The recommendation was to have saliva testing of these hormones, instead of blood level evaluation. And it should include the saliva levels of cortisol and thyroid. Pregnancy and breastfeeding alter these sex hormones and nutrient variables are critical in the uptake and utilization ability of the blood, especially in the brain neurosynthesis of these hormones. These hormones effect the immune system, and seratonin is associated with sleep and estrogen. (I was taking notes.







) The progesterone level evaluated in saliva is critical as most women at age 35 are low in progesterone, irrelevant of recent pregnancy or breastfeeding even.

Apparently, there are synthetic hormone replacements (HRT) and bio-identical hormone replacements (BHRT). (I had never heard much about this issue before now.) Anyway, the BHRT are more able to be utilized by the body because of their "fit" with (proteins or amino acids, I believe) in order to be used rather than freely "available" in the blood. Does this make sense? Basically, HRT and even our own hormones may appear to be adequate according to the blood level, but the the interaction of other hormones and nutrients (specifically deficiencies) means that they are not effectively used. So, the suggestion is to have each of the sex hormones evaluated in saliva and replaced specifically (as necessary) with bio-identical repacements (BHRT). Evidently, the reason that most HRT used by the medical profession is because HRT is marketed. BHRT are naturally derived and MUCH less expensive and don't hold the profit potential.

Apparently, BHRT are *derived* from Wild Mexican Yams and Soy and chemcially identical to our natural hormones. Although, food consumption of these foods in huge quantities would NOT be as useful or efficient an effort to "replace" the hormones. The natural derivative of the hormones is chemically dissimilar, ie. phytoestrogen is NOT the same as a bio-identical hormone. Confused as mud? I was a critical care nurse for 17 years and I am a bit confused.







So, I am giving my best understanding, but this is NOT my area of specialty. I was a cardio-thorasic nurse. BUT, I am now 42 and ummmm....needing to understand this stuff better.

BTW, endometriosis is associated with progesterone levels. I too have endo too. And progesterone is associated with the utilization of estrogen...which all needs to be in balance to conceive and carry babies to term. All of this is interestingly connected. I think I will post in the health and TTC forums so that others who don't know about all this can seek information to help them optimize their health. Frankly, I have written all I know. So, I am not more help than knowing that I need more info! And Magnesium (and many other nutrients) are critical to the immune system and the hormones, if I recall correctly. And most of us are low in Mag. Amazing isn't it?

The book "Menopause & The Mind" was a referenced resource for the lay person about the interaction of hormones and moods. I am going to seek it out. Another author knowledgable about hormones and women is Susan Weed. She has several books about different stages in a woman's life: childbearing years, premenopausal, etc. I haven't read her books, but a friend recommended them. And John Lee writes about hormone balancing in relation to diet, supplements and exercise.

Pat


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

I did want to ask how people are getting potassium? When one has loose stools or diarrhea on a repetitive basis potassium can become depleted and it is critical for cells and the heart. Too much is dangerous too. So, supplementation is tricky. Here is a list of foods high in potassium. We need about 3500mg a day. http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/food...sium-foods.htm

Pat


----------



## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Another question....
How are you guys finding money to get all these supplements and food! I've been spending 2-3 times as much on food plus I take a bunch of supplements and I'm learning that I need more, I just can't afford it! My DH is very upset about my spending sprees and change in cooking habits. There's no way I can get a job with a 2-y and a 10-month old.

This is a huge source of frustration for my family too. It really came down to me saying that I would become super frugal about other things in our life. I am willing to work hard growing food for us, clean my house and body with baking soda, etc if it means that I can get healthy. I also figured that if I was going to see a doc, we would be spending a lot more (I don't have insurance and DP and DD have outrageous co-pays and mins). Plus, this is for a long term healthy change. Does any of that help?








I know it sucks bad. And I am not even doing SCD.


----------



## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
What is sublingual B-12?

I sort of asked this before, but I'm open for more opinions...I'm going to make 24 hr goat yogurt in the next couple of days. I have 2 choices for a starter--commercial goat yogurt which contains goat milk, pectin, tapioca, and live cultures, or yogourmet starter, which obviously contains cow milk. I was thinking about going with the goat yogurt starter even though it contains illegals, so if DD does react to it at least I will know it's not because of the cow dairy. I know neither are ideal, but I want to make sure she can tolerate the goat yogurt before I spend $45 on the dairy free yogurt starter. Anyone have any thoughts on this?.

I would go with the goat, maybe even make a small batch, then use the yog you made as starter for a big batch.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
I did want to ask how people are getting potassium? When one has loose stools or diarrhea on a repetitive basis potassium can become depleted and it is critical for cells and the heart. Too much is dangerous too. So, supplementation is tricky. Here is a list of foods high in potassium. We need about 3500mg a day. http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/food...sium-foods.htm

Pat

Besides the foods I use Morton's Salt Substitute sparingly which is potassium chloride.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Besides the foods I use Morton's Salt Substitute sparingly which is potassium chloride.

What an efficient and inexpensive idea. People must be cautious and not take a bunch at one time, which could cause heart irregularities!

Here are the amounts:

No Salt -- 1/4 tsp.: 650 mg. Potassium/0 mg. sodium

Morton's Lite Salt -- 1/4 tsp.: 350 mg. Potassium/290 mg. sodium

Morton's Salt Substitute -- 1/4 tsp.: 610 mg. Potassium/0 mg. sodium

Cardia Salt Alternative -- 1/4 tsp.: 180 mg. Potassium/270 mg. sodium

Here is the source of the above: http://www.pamf.org/heartfailure/lif...seasoning.html

Pat


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## CAJen (Oct 31, 2005)

I've been lurking here for a couple of weeks and thought I'd finally stop in and say hi.

My story:

I've been TTC for 2+ years, recently tracked down and had stage 3 endo surgically removed. I've had menstrual migraines for over 10 years, eczema, bad skin, been depressed, all classic symptoms, now that I'm learning about this stuff.

I've been seeing a nutritionist for about three months now. She did a lot of tests and found, basically, that I have a couple of bacteria causing leaky gut, which causes the whole chain reaction of not getting enough vitamins and nutrients out of my food, which means my body also isn't manufacturing the right hormones.

I've been on an elimination diet for a couple of months. Since I started that, my skin cleared up, gas cleared up, my distended stomach went back to normal, I have a ton more energy, and I lost 15 pounds. I just took a course of Tindamax to get rid of the bacteria, to which I had a violent reaction, so I'm positive it was killing off something. After I give my body a week to recover, I'll start the SCD.

My nutritionist also thinks that I have high mercury toxicity, so I'll do a challenge test to see how much I can chelate with a single dose of DSMA.

Has anyone gotten pregnant after infertility as a result of nutrional changes? I'd love to hear some success stories...

OK, now I'll go back to reading. I'm learning a lot from you guys. Thanks.


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
She's been through some pretty significant die-off the last couple of days; sweating profusely while napping, and she had the tantrum to beat all tantrums yesterday.


is sweating profusely while sleeping a die off symptom? my 8mo ds has been doing this all week. he has always run hot and the weather has heated up, but its pretty cool inside our house so i haven't been able to understand why he's so much sweatier than usual while sleeping. even though i've gone to just a diaper and shirt with no blanket or sheet.

i can't decide if the wobenzyme i'm taking is effecting him. i've been taking enzymes for a few weeks, started digest gold 2 weeks ago, and wobenzyme 3 days ago. i don't think its effecting him negatively, he had some die-off gas and pooping the first week (now he has normal bf poo yay!). but i keep reading everyones horror stories of the enzymes making babies hyper. he is really active, but with crawling and learning to cruise, wanting to be on the go all the time feels pretty normal. and he's definitely a high energy person (gets that from his dad). he sleeps ok. 10-12 hours at night (wakes up to nurse a couple times, but back to sleep pretty quickly), his naps vary alot but they usually total 2-3 hours a day. he started waking up more this past week, but seems to have gone back to his normal pattern now that i've stopped trying to cover him up at night. i think he would wake up because he was hot, kick the sheet off, and then flop around trying to find a cool spot. all the while complaining which was keeping us up -i'm so tired! last night i went to bed at 9, it was soo nice...


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Did any of you have to slowly adjust to taking CLO? I had a bottle of capsules (Carlson's) and I didn't notice anything in particular. I just got Blue Ice and took 2 Tbsp (well, I think a bit less, as our soup spoons are smaller than 1 Tbsp) just before lunch and now I fell a bit









Also, noting that many of you say that you can only take a small dose of enzymes or none at all, does it mean anything that I seem not to notice them at all? I have a bottle of Udo's b/c that is what I could get at my coop, and have started taking them before eating and often in between also.

And is it important to take them between meals if your issue isn't yeast?

I just took the mood cure test, and was thinking I must not be depressed at all until I got to Part 4.







On that I scored a 9 and the cut off is 6. Endorphins. Interesting because when my depression was at its worst in a long time last summer, I started running daily, and it really helped. I wasn't 100%, but much, much better. I had an injury this winter, and couldn't run for about 6 weeks, and the depression came back (not that it was ever completely gone, but YKWIM). It was at that point that I started meds (since I now also had insurance which was the problem with starting before. That and I wanted to try non-med things first.) On the others I scored 10 -- cut off 12 (serotonin); 2 -- cut off 6 (catecholoamines); 4 -- cut off 8 (GABA).

So, on that note, I am taking my quesy stomach and going running.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

CAJen, I read your prior posts that you had extensive endo and they just left it.







I am glad that you sought additional intervention. I had extensive endo and had the luck of a skilled surgeon, first time; and we got pregnant within the year afterwards. I did have to have my tubes "flushed" (I don't recall the procedural term) to check their patency. I saw that you only have one now.









As you saw from my prior note, there is so much dependent upon our nutritional status and everything is interconnected. I do know that adoption often takes years, and may have an effect of lowering cortisol (stress hormones), which could facilitate conception. You might also learn a lot from the thread Nutrition and Immunology, over in the vaccine forum. I certainly have. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=406983

I don't know much about Mercury toxicity and what to do if levels are high. (Jane?) Do you have some sites that you could reference? This is something that I am just starting to learn and fear.









Thanks, Pat


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
What is sublingual B-12?

I sort of asked this before, but I'm open for more opinions...I'm going to make 24 hr goat yogurt in the next couple of days. I have 2 choices for a starter--commercial goat yogurt which contains goat milk, pectin, tapioca, and live cultures, or yogourmet starter, which obviously contains cow milk. I was thinking about going with the goat yogurt starter even though it contains illegals, so if DD does react to it at least I will know it's not because of the cow dairy. I know neither are ideal, but I want to make sure she can tolerate the goat yogurt before I spend $45 on the dairy free yogurt starter. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


The problem with the extra stuff in the goat yogurt is it may keep your yogurt from fermenting correctly. I would go with the powder personally.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I use both the nibs and the beans for different reasons...if I were only getting one it would be the nibs.
Another bonus is that since it's unprocessed there is no chance of lead contamination!

Ok give me some ideas on how to use this. I'm branching out into illegals and I'm intrigued by this one for sure.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
so, I can't afford the tests for amino acids. Which ones should I experiment with for depression and anxiety, and how much should I start with? Does it matter the brand? If I get frequent migraines, how would that be affected. I know prozac made them worse. Cow's milk makes them worse, even as 24 hour yogurt.

Did you ever try raw cow diary? Just curious cause I had huge issues with pasturized cow and was quite delighted to discover I could drink raw w/o issue.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Another question....
How are you guys finding money to get all these supplements and food! I've been spending 2-3 times as much on food plus I take a bunch of supplements and I'm learning that I need more, I just can't afford it! My DH is very upset about my spending sprees and change in cooking habits. There's no way I can get a job with a 2-y and a 10-month old.

Dh just started taking the bus to work and we are dropping insurance on his car and possibly selling it. Nothing is worth more than our health.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
firefaery - what would you recommend I take in terms of clo? I'm b'feeding and would like to supplement extra for depression. I have Blue Ice and NN both. Right now I'm only taking 1 tsp. Blue Ice. That's probably not enough right?

The recomended dose of blue ice for bfing is 2 tsp. I take 1 tbsp cause we are also trying to heal.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
Subbing (and in lots of pain







)
I've been dealing with digestive issues for years. About 4 years ago I had many tests - CDSA and food sensitivity tests. The CDSA showed lots of bad bugs, both bacterial and fungal while the food allergy tests showed I wasn't reacting to many foods I had suspected might have been a cause of my issues (casein and wheat for instance). I started phone consults with Trent Nichols (gastroenterologist who focuses on nutrition) and finally got everything under control. I had been spending oodles of money on supplements and nothing really seemed to make a long term improvement.

It was around this time that I started getting into NT/WAPF and became a chapter leader.

I also suffer from endometriosis which is completely connected to my digestive woes. I'm due any minute for AF and my stomach is a complete wreck.

After getting pg with my daughter I began eating more foods that I know I shouldn't. It was the first time in years that my stomach felt great no matter what I ate so I went hogwild. Obviously it was all because of my immune system being on hold so after I had my daughter my problems came back. I really think there's a hormonal connection (again, all tests have come back normal but I'm guessing it's just not being detected) because I felt great until AF returned when dd was around 1.

My diet is still based on whole foods but I eat just about everything without hesitation. We're heading to France next week and I expect to (and want to) eat without reservation. After I come back I want to start reassessing my health and embark on a short cleanse to get back on track. I'm so tired of feeling like shit all the time. It is affecting every aspect of my life.

ETA: The only supplement I'm currently taking with consistency is Primal Defense. It used to be the one supplement I could count on and now I seem to not be benefiting. I've tried just about every supplement under the sun and am wondering what others think would be my next best choice. Some of the supplements I've tried worked for a while and then didn't and others made me feel worse (enzymes for instance).
I know diet is key so that's where I intend to start but I'm guessing I've got yeast issues to overcome (feeling very yeasty these days - chronic UTIs too) and also REALLY need to heal the lining of my poor, inflammed gut.

I have endo too. I have done many things over the years to get it under control. It was getting really bad again and I was afraid I was going to need more surgery but since starting scd I have noticed a big change in my cycles. I can tell my hormones are sorting themselves out in a way that they never have w/o suppliments and acupuncture. I'm just feeding my body what it needs and it is getting itself healthy again.


----------



## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

I'm just posting to lurk for a while.








(We're moving and I'm not quite ready for this huge task, but I'm reseraching!







)


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Oh, and nicolena--I think it is normal for toddlers to hit. Pretty much every toddler I've spent any length of time around has hit at some point. It's just one of those things you have to teach them not to do.

Ditto this. My dd is often complimented on how kind she is (it is her natural temperment) and she went through a hitting phase. Just work on gentle touches and remember it will pass.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
I did want to ask how people are getting potassium? When one has loose stools or diarrhea on a repetitive basis potassium can become depleted and it is critical for cells and the heart. Too much is dangerous too. So, supplementation is tricky. Here is a list of foods high in potassium. We need about 3500mg a day. http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/food...sium-foods.htm

Pat

Hmmm... Based on that we probably are barely getting enough potassium. One bonus of scd is all the nuts and bananas you tend to get as well as veggies. I've been eating beet greens pretty often lately and I never had made them before this (btw they are super high in potassium!)


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Did any of you have to slowly adjust to taking CLO? I had a bottle of capsules (Carlson's) and I didn't notice anything in particular. I just got Blue Ice and took 2 Tbsp (well, I think a bit less, as our soup spoons are smaller than 1 Tbsp) just before lunch and now I fell a bit









The first day I took CLO, I took 3T (healing dose) and felt quesy and diarhea-ey a few hours later. The second day I didn't have any problem. I've heard suggestions of both working your way up to your dose, as well as taking your dose with food. I always take mine after breakfast, when I've had butter with my eggs.


----------



## CAJen (Oct 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
CAJen, I read your prior posts that you had extensive endo and they just left it.







I am glad that you sought additional intervention. I had extensive endo and had the luck of a skilled surgeon, first time; and we got pregnant within the year afterwards. I did have to have my tubes "flushed" (I don't recall the procedural term) to check their patency. I saw that you only have one now.









As you saw from my prior note, there is so much dependent upon our nutritional status and everything is interconnected. I do know that adoption often takes years, and may have an effect of lowering cortisol (stress hormones), which could facilitate conception. You might also learn a lot from the thread Nutrition and Immunology, over in the vaccine forum. I certainly have. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=406983

I don't know much about Mercury toxicity and what to do if levels are high. (Jane?) Do you have some sites that you could reference? This is something that I am just starting to learn and fear.









Thanks, Pat

Thank you! I've read this thread and it's great. I think I could read it 10 more times and learn more every time.

I know, my whole endo story is unbelievable, but, sadly, typical.

Good to hear that you conceived after surgery! That's what I like to hear. Here's hoping...

Oops, forgot about the mercury question. I don't have any sites yet, and am still learning about it myself. I did both a hair and blood test and it didn't show up, so that's why we're doing the DMSA challenge test to see if it's stuck in my kidneys. As I learn more I'll post here. I'd be interested if anyone else has any information, too.


----------



## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
On the website for the Mood Cure there is a test for amino acid deficiencies. Not exactly a gold standard, but a starting point nonetheless. I think it only covers four -but it will give you an idea. I think the site is www.moodcure.com/Questionnaire.html

Wow. I must really be in bad shape. I could answer yes to almost every single question. So, how would I go about supplementing amino acids? Any recommendations?

I am really depressed, too and feeling lack of support from dh. I've been in counseling for a year and dh and I have been doing joint counseling for a month. The counselor suggested to me last night to take classes or something giving me job skills so that I have some confidence in myself if I decide to leave dh. And that I need to decide what level of happiness I am willing to live with. Not encouraging.

I'm having lots of trouble sleeping, too. I bought some melatonin last night and tried it. It did make me feel really sleepy, but I still had lots of trouble getting to sleep and I woke up countless times during the night. I am so tired during the day and feel as if I'd been crying all night.

Sorry to whine. Anyway, any suggestions on sleep aids? I am thinking of buying magnesium and trying that.

I haven't started scd yet. I have redcued my consumption of grains, but can't seem to wean dd from them. We are moving in a month and I am putting off the diet until after we get settled. But if I leave dh, I won't be able to afford doing the diet with dd.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

another question I've been meaning to ask--isn't low zinc associated with stretch marks? My stretch marks from pregnancy still look the same. Shouldn't they have started going white by now, almost 2.5 years after birth?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Seems like I read about a natural remedy for constipation here a while back. (?) Anybody have suggestions?
DD1 is sooo constipated today. Dh gave her milk last night







and she's already had 2 sippy cups of prune juice and nothing. I hate to do a suppository again as it throws everything off afterward.


----------



## roses1001 (Jun 12, 2002)

I just bought some high vitamin Blue Ice clo. Can someone please help me with the dosage for me and my family?

1) I'm pregnant and want to take clo to help with acne and depression.
2) My ds is 3, and he has many signs of leaky gut--eczema, allergies, etc.
3) My dd is almost 2, she doesn't seem to have leaky gut problems, so she probably doesn't need a healing dose.
4) My dh--I don't really think he has leaky gut problems, although he does have allergies.

Anyway, can someone please help me figure out how much clo each of us should take?

Thanks.


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roses1001*
I just bought some high vitamin Blue Ice clo. Can someone please help me with the dosage for me and my family?

1) I'm pregnant and want to take clo to help with acne and depression.
2) My ds is 3, and he has many signs of leaky gut--eczema, allergies, etc.
3) My dd is almost 2, she doesn't seem to have leaky gut problems, so she probably doesn't need a healing dose.
4) My dh--I don't really think he has leaky gut problems, although he does have allergies.

Anyway, can someone please help me figure out how much clo each of us should take?

Thanks.

Roses, here is the link to the WAPF site for CLO dosing:
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html

I'm healing a leaky gut for acne as well, and I've been surprised to see just how much healing I probably need.


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
Wow. I must really be in bad shape. I could answer yes to almost every single question. So, how would I go about supplementing amino acids? Any recommendations?

I am really depressed, too and feeling lack of support from dh. I've been in counseling for a year and dh and I have been doing joint counseling for a month. The counselor suggested to me last night to take classes or something giving me job skills so that I have some confidence in myself if I decide to leave dh. And that I need to decide what level of happiness I am willing to live with. Not encouraging.

I'm having lots of trouble sleeping, too. I bought some melatonin last night and tried it. It did make me feel really sleepy, but I still had lots of trouble getting to sleep and I woke up countless times during the night. I am so tired during the day and feel as if I'd been crying all night.

Sorry to whine. Anyway, any suggestions on sleep aids? I am thinking of buying magnesium and trying that.

I haven't started scd yet. I have redcued my consumption of grains, but can't seem to wean dd from them. We are moving in a month and I am putting off the diet until after we get settled. But if I leave dh, I won't be able to afford doing the diet with dd.









Sweetie, I'm so sorry








I definately sympathize with how one has to arrive at the drastic measures in their own time. I really hope that you find the answers that you seek, both on this thread and (it sounds like) in many, many other areas.This thread has tons of info, especially lately, on the depression connection.


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Did any of you have to slowly adjust to taking CLO? I had a bottle of capsules (Carlson's) and I didn't notice anything in particular. I just got Blue Ice and took 2 Tbsp (well, I think a bit less, as our soup spoons are smaller than 1 Tbsp) just before lunch and now I fell a bit









The most likely reason for this is that Carlson's isn't as nutrient dense as Blue Ice so you're getting more of a powerful product this time. Good for you for switching...Carlson's has soy







:


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## ericaz (Jun 10, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I have endo too. I have done many things over the years to get it under control. It was getting really bad again and I was afraid I was going to need more surgery but since starting scd I have noticed a big change in my cycles. I can tell my hormones are sorting themselves out in a way that they never have w/o suppliments and acupuncture. I'm just feeding my body what it needs and it is getting itself healthy again.

So glad to hear that you found something that seems to be working! I know I need to do what I did before - go on a short cleansing fast (I used to fast a lot) and then eliminate all dairy and grains. After I note significant improvements I'll probably do a modified scd.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Seems like I read about a natural remedy for constipation here a while back. (?) Anybody have suggestions?
DD1 is sooo constipated today. Dh gave her milk last night







and she's already had 2 sippy cups of prune juice and nothing. I hate to do a suppository again as it throws everything off afterward.









epsom salts...it says on the carton they can be taken orally, or maybe you could try lots of baths?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Thank you caedmyn!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I'm pretty much starting from scratch here again in an attempt to heal dd1 this time. We've spent the last 4 months focusing on myself and dd2 with amazing results. I really need some help with what to do w/my big dd now.

A little background: She was vaccinated, received 2 flu shots, has had antibiotics for UTI and probably some other things that I cannot remember.







She has had pooping issues for as long as I can remember starting w/green poopies as a baby. When I eliminated dairy she did much better.

She's had chronic and severe constipation for more than half her little life and our ped prescribed a stool softener a year ago which she was on for many, many months. She alternates between having *regular* poopies (which are always mushy and stinky) to being severely constipated. I've given her more glycerin suppositories than I want to think about and it's affected her emotionally and psychologically as well. She hasn't had a suppository in several weeks, yet every day she tells me; "I don't need poopy medicine!" The mention of the word suppository sends her crying and running.







She's obsessed with poopy (beyond the normal toddler obsession.) I totally downplay it but her history has made her this way.

For a short while her poopies were normal (I don't know why as I was not tuned in to all this then) and while they were good, formed poops, she actually used the potty. Well, one bout of constipation ended that.

When she does finally go after being constipated it's like she's in labor. No joke; sweating, moaning, crying.

While my intentions were to have her on SCD w/fanatical adherence, I just could not focus on both dds at the same time.

She also has yeast issues. Recurring yeast rashes last summer, had a UTI, and so I thought this was her major issue. Now I'm seeing that she needs SO MUCH more than I thought.

I'm going to defer to you ladies on what to do next. What tests? What course of treatment? This poor little 2 ½ year old needs a break!


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Mlleoiseau, don't make any rash decisions about leaving a husband while moving. Moving is about the most stressful thing behind birthing and building a house. Always give everything *at least* 90 days (preferably a year!) after major life changes to do anything permanent, imo. If you could focus on helping *yourself* to feel better, dh's issues or actions will feel less powerful of an influence over your life and happiness. I had to choose to find ways to make *me* happy, rather than relying on dh, or anyone else to 'quit making me feel bad'. The book "The Dance of Intimacy" really helped to empower me. It explains how to identify my "bottom line" and set personal boundaries about how I would allow myself to be treated. (This was in reference to my father's emotionally abusive relationship with me, not dh.) As you feel more confidence in your own self-worth, other's opinions really don't hurt and effect you as much. But, obviously don't stay in an abusive relationship.

A couple of things have helped our sleep. The CLO seems to have helped; and the Magnesium seems to have helped. We also avoid dairy; but many here swear by raw, unprocessed milk (is that correct?). Dairy really disturbs ds and me. We are also following The Feingold Diet, which eliminates artificial colors and flavors (and a bunch of other ingredients). It appears that all processed food is illegal on the SCD, so that might help your sleep too. We have tried the Melatonin and had the most success at 2mg. We had to up the dose from 1mg to be effective. I have heard of some people needing more. BUT, I read that Melatonin is a natural hormone and is important to the immune system function, the pituitary gland, iirc, and I decided I didn't want to be messing with these things willy-nilly. So, we only use the Melatonin on a rare, rare occasion. Some people, especially children with ADHD produce low levels and need it nightly.

I hope things settle down after the move. It sounds like your family is majorly stressed. I will send peaceful energy for you all.









Pat


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Seems like I read about a natural remedy for constipation here a while back. (?) Anybody have suggestions?
DD1 is sooo constipated today. Dh gave her milk last night







and she's already had 2 sippy cups of prune juice and nothing. I hate to do a suppository again as it throws everything off afterward.









Prune juice usually does it. There are glycerin suppositories without laxatives. The CLO can do it too. And high doses of Vit. C cause diarrhea. Avoid the BRAT foods: bananas, rice, apples, toast. Wow, two cups of prune juice is a HUGE amount for an adult even. I'd be watching for any abdominal tenderness. Is it possible that she swallowed something that could cause an obstruction in the bowel?

Raisins are another laxative, if you eat enough.

Pat


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Annikate, would you consider homeopathy? I really think with the multiple physical issues: vaccination, constipation with significant discomfort, food intolerances, UTIs, etc. that a constitutional remedy could make a big difference.

I am not suggesting not to do all of the nutritional support, but helping the body to heal itself by strengthening the immune system through homeopathy has helped dh with major bowel issues and severe allergies, and depression. I can't recommend it highly enough.

Pat


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Scubamama*
Prune juice usually does it. There are glycerin suppositories without laxatives. The CLO can do it too. And high doses of Vit. C cause diarrhea. Avoid the BRAT foods: bananas, rice, apples, toast. Wow, two cups of prune juice is a HUGE amount for an adult even. I'd be watching for any abdominal tenderness. Is it possible that she swallowed something that could cause an obstruction in the bowel?

Raisins are another laxative, if you eat enough.
Actually the prune juice was diluted and was only about 4 oz. total. Maybe less. (One of the little cans.) Dh is with her now and I'm praying the prune juice, extra vit. c, and epsom salt bath will do the trick.

I know about the BRAT foods. She clearly has something more going on and no, it's not an obstruction. Is it a wonder I'm addicted to this thread?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Annikate, would you consider homeopathy? I really think with the multiple physical issues: vaccination, constipation with significant discomfort, food intolerances, UTIs, etc. that a constitutional remedy could make a big difference.

I am not suggesting not to do all of the nutritional support, but helping the body to heal itself by strengthening the immune system through homeopathy has helped dh with major bowel issues and severe allergies, and depression. I can't recommend it highly enough.
Yes, I need to find a good one. We have a chiro/natuopath I guess. Or, maybe he's a homeopath? Don't know. He's actually the one that gave dd2 her first jar of enzymes but doesn't believe in leaky gut. So . . . I'm not inclined really to use him for this issue, though we do go fto him for little sniffles and such.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

I am finishing up day one of doing SCD -- I ate scrambled eggs, juice, fish, cooked carrots, and half a pan of jello.







:

I did okay, not too hungry although I thought about food a lot and had a few cravings for something bready and sweet. But I am soooooo tired. Bone tired. That may have something to do with my son waking me up all night long, but then that's nothing new, and I don't usually feel this wiped out. I'm actually going to start getting us ready for bed now (it's not even 6:30pm here!), We'll see what tomorrow brings.

Wish I could write more but ds won't let me.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Seems like I read about a natural remedy for constipation here a while back. (?) Anybody have suggestions?
DD1 is sooo constipated today. Dh gave her milk last night







and she's already had 2 sippy cups of prune juice and nothing. I hate to do a suppository again as it throws everything off afterward.









Magnesium will help. I would also encourage you to wait it out if possible. Something about the body finding it's own equalibrium and not throwing it off. It will happen. epsom salt baths can help too. Increase her fiber.

Oh and elaine suggests prune juice in orange juice at breakfast time followed by a hot drink and then going to the bathroom and waiting till it happens.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roses1001*
I just bought some high vitamin Blue Ice clo. Can someone please help me with the dosage for me and my family?

1) I'm pregnant and want to take clo to help with acne and depression.
2) My ds is 3, and he has many signs of leaky gut--eczema, allergies, etc.
3) My dd is almost 2, she doesn't seem to have leaky gut problems, so she probably doesn't need a healing dose.
4) My dh--I don't really think he has leaky gut problems, although he does have allergies.

Anyway, can someone please help me figure out how much clo each of us should take?

Thanks.

1. at least 1 tbsp daily
2 (probably) 1 tsp daily
3. 1/2 tsp daily
4. 1 tsp daily

I personally am not afraid of large doses of natural vitamin A. Many cultures recomend pg women eat liver many times a week. A maintanence dose of liver is 1 serving a week. Also eggs are high in vitamin A. The Chineese have pg women eat 10 or more eggs daily if they can afford it!


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
The most likely reason for this is that Carlson's isn't as nutrient dense as Blue Ice so you're getting more of a powerful product this time. Good for you for switching...Carlson's has soy







:

Most brands have Vitamin E added, which is derived from soy. I contacted Carlsons a while ago about the vitamins and they said yes E comes from soy but it's purified so the end product is virtually soy-free.
Also, in the lemon flavored one the A and D is naturally occuring, they don't add synthetic vitamins. The lemon flavor is lemon oil. So if your cod liver oil has vitamin E-there's your soy.
I use Carlson's because I need high doses of omega 3-s.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
When she does finally go after being constipated it's like she's in labor. No joke; sweating, moaning, crying.









your poor dd. That's how my dd was when I was trying her on solids. I took her to a naturopath who suggested giving her a tsp of slippery elm bark powder daily, along with probiotics. And she wanted me on digestive enzymes and fish oil cause I was nursing. The slippery elm bark powder did help. I finally realized that for dd, it was all about fiber. She still needs lots of fiber.

I know that slippery elm bark is probably not scd legal. Here's hoping the other mamas here will have advice for you.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Well, dd got out of the tub a little while ago and she is like a drunken little banchee. How's that for a visual?







She's very tired as she didn't have much of a nap today and she's totally hyped up from the epsom salts. Poor dh. She told me that her "poopy tummy ache" felt better though she didn't go. My yogurt seems to help a lot. Thankfully, a new batch was ready about an hour or so ago so she drank a whole cup. Guess we'll see what the morning brings. Or should I say the overnight? (Dh is co-sleeping w/her in her room.) That's okay 'cause I'm still up every 1 1/2-2 1/2 hours all night long w/dd2.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Thanks for the encouragement, Pat. When I do make the decision, it won't have been rashly made. It will have been 9.5 years in the making, with having been in counseling and marriage counseling.
Thanks for the book suggestion. I will look for that at the library. I know that it's up to me to decide to be happy and to set boundaries.
I take clo, although not regularly lately. I take the carlson's capsules. Magnesium I will try. I don't really like the idea of taking melatonin, either, because of the hormone thing. But I am so tired it is worth a try.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

AK- epsom salt baths, oral magnesium (like natural calm-not epsom salts) and a castor oil pack on her belly to reduce the inflammation from the back-up. Poor peanut! Stay away from juices (as the sugar, even though it's natural can disrupt the bacterial imbalance that causes the constipation...) and push fluids-lots of water.

My sister had awful endometriosis and multile surgeries until I MADE her go to my homeopath. She never had pain again and was pregnant within three months (had been trying for years.) IT workd wonders for so many things!

I'll go back and see what else I have to reply to...I've missed so much in a day!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Thanks ff - I'll have to wean her off of the o.j. now.
I can hear her still playing and talking. hyper, hyper, hyper.. . .
Glad I ordered that natural calm! Maybe it'll come tomorrow.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

For everyone who's been asking about yeast lately...I found a good website today. http://www.ei-resource.org/candida.asp

And also this for treatments: http://www.ei-resource.org/anti-fungal.asp

Now if I could just get my own yeast problems under control!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I took the quiz, and the only one I scored above the cutoff was the first one, the dark cloud one. The other three, I was at the number for the cutoff -- e.g., I scored four on the one that if you're over four, you need that amino acid. So I guess I'm low in serotonin. Which is what amino acid? L-tryptophan?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Hmmm Took the quiz.

Apparently I need gaba and endorphins and possibly Serotonin (just one over the cut off on that one.)

I can't imagine that anyone doing this diet wouldn't have depression issues. It is extremely stressful to keep up with and yet better than keeping up with life before the diet (if more purposeful which has it's own stress.)


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Oh and has anyone heard of hydrogen peroxide for yeast? A woman at my LLL that I was telling about scd said this is what she thinks she will do for dealing with her systemic yeast.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Oh and has anyone heard of hydrogen peroxide for yeast? A woman at my LLL that I was telling about scd said this is what she thinks she will do for dealing with her systemic yeast.

Hydrogen peroxide kills new cell rejuvenation. We used to use it on wounds, but they determined that it impaired healing. Not sure if this effect would be bad on yeast though.







I have used lavender essential oil on Athlete's foot and it is a natural anti-microbial, iirc. You might try that.

Lavender is also good for upset stomachs/gassy/abdominal pain. Rub a couple drops on the abdomen in a clockwise direction. It may be the physical touch or the aromatherapy affect, I don't know.

Off to bed, Pat


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Oh and has anyone heard of hydrogen peroxide for yeast? A woman at my LLL that I was telling about scd said this is what she thinks she will do for dealing with her systemic yeast.

Oh, have you opened a capsule of probiotics onto the yeast infected body part? That is supposed to help too.

Pat


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## arelyn (Mar 24, 2006)

Wow, thanks for all the replies. Sad to say milk powder is ALL we can have. We don't have proper refrigeration and every bottle of milk has spoiled before we could get any of it (the 15 minute walk from the store in 85 degree weather can't help it either).

On the happy note we get TONS of coconut and coconut oil and do eat eggs pretty regularily (though they usually don't sit well with me). Cheese here is hard to come by and even most of that is just processed stuff. We don't cook if we can help it as our "kitchen" is the home to millions of ants, a few dozen cockroaches, and one EXTREMALY large spider (his picture will be online soon). When we do cook we use red rice and we only wash it if it's dirty (which is about 50% of the time). Rice is the national mainstay here. Every meal involves rice. Without rice it isn't considered a meal, merely a snack. The next most common food is potatoes. If we take those away, we starve!! I would SO be game to try the diet but I honestly don't know what we'd eat without rice and potatoes.

I'd never seen fake meat without wheat before coming here. It's hard to find but occassionaly we find pumpkin or carrot sausages. They are made of ground pumpkin/carrot, rice, potato, soy, and some spices...supposedly. You never really know for 100% sure.

I don't think I'm a celiac too. I usually stay off it with DH but when I do have something I don't notice any difference at all. I also kinda doubt hormone problems. I chart and everything has stayed consistant for seven months now! I used to have an ovarian cyst that occassionally screwed up the hormones but it went away when I went vegetarian (coincidence or not?).

Today my hair loss after shower was down by half







!!! On the sad note, DH got bad water (he's been drinking it at the food stalls) but he knows better so don't feel too bad for him. It'll pass in a couple days.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *arelyn*
Wow, thanks for all the replies. Sad to say milk powder is ALL we can have. We don't have proper refrigeration and every bottle of milk has spoiled before we could get any of it (the 15 walk from the store in 85 degree weather can't help it either).

On the happy note we get TONS of coconut and coconut oil and do eat eggs pretty regularily (though they usually don't sit well with me). Cheese here is hard to come by and even most of that is just processed stuff. We don't cook if we can help it as our "kitchen" is the home to millions of ants, a few dozen cockroaches, and one EXTREMALY large spider (his picture will be online soon). When we do cook we use red rice and we only wash it if it's dirty (which is about 50% of the time). Rice is the national mainstay here. Every meal involves rice. Without rice it isn't considered a meal, merely a snack. The next most common food is potatoes. If we take those away, we starve!! I would SO be game to try the diet but I honestly don't know what we'd eat without rice and potatoes.

I'd never seen fake meat without wheat before coming here. It's hard to find but occassionaly we find pumpkin or carrot sausages. They are made of ground pumpkin/carrot, rice, potato, soy, and some spices...supposedly. You never really know for 100% sure.

I don't think I'm a celiac too. I usually stay off it with DH but when I do have something I don't notice any difference at all. I also kinda doubt hormone problems. I chart and everything has stayed consistant for seven months now! I used to have an ovarian cyst that occassionally screwed up the hormones but it went away when I went vegetarian (coincidence or not?).

Today my hair loss after shower was down by half







!!! On the sad note, DH got bad water (he's been drinking it at the food stalls) but he knows better so don't feel too bad for him. It'll pass in a couple days.


If you must eat rice try to get brown and soak it for about 7 hours before cooking. Eat it combined with beans or lentils soaked overnight. If bugs are a concern cover the bowls with lids or a dishcloth. If you just add some meat (like canned fish-they should be safe) or eggs, that's almost good nutrition.
In my opinion no milk at all is better than powdered.

Also spices like cloves, cinnamon, turmeric, cayenne and cumin are mild antifungals too.
Try to get 3 tbs coconut oil a day, drink c. milk, c. water. Coconut oil is also a good antifungal. And you also need a lot of fat, CO is a very good kind of fat.

If you are unable to change your diet try to have someone ship you some digestive enzymes from the States. Houston's and Enzymedica have been recommended on this forum. Enzymes will help you guys digest the food and reduce reactions, get one with high amylese for carbs. Also they will help with yeast (high protease and cellulase).

I'm pretty sure my 5 years(college plus one year living on my own before marriage) of being a near-vegetarian and living on high-carb processed foods (cheap and need no refrig-I was really poor) and hardly any meat and zero eggs contributed to the deterioration of my health.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

I did the intro diet yesterday, and this morning at 5am I started having hot flashes. I finally got up at about 7am -- well, couldn't get up is more like it, since I was also light-headed. I was so weak I had to get my husband to bring me some food (banana, emergen-c, and scrambled eggs). I finally had enough strength to take a quick shower. Now I'm freezing and shaky. I've felt a tiny bit nauseaus too.

Is this die-off? Does it happen so quickly? Or could it be my body's reaction to eating fish and eggs after not having any for years?

I was so tempted this morning to go back to my usual food. I can handle cravings and hunger, but hot flashes and dizziness while trying to take care of a baby are not cool.

Should I continue? Does any of this make sense?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

New Mama, Sorry you're feeling so bad! Die off can cause all kinds of not-so-fun symptoms but I don't know about the dizziness. I know it made me feel like I had the flu a couple of times but I did not go from vegan to eating eggs and fish overnight either. My guess is it's probably both that you're body is reacting to.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Hydrogen peroxide kills new cell rejuvenation. We used to use it on wounds, but they determined that it impaired healing. Not sure if this effect would be bad on yeast though.







I have used lavender essential oil on Athlete's foot and it is a natural anti-microbial, iirc. You might try that.

Lavender is also good for upset stomachs/gassy/abdominal pain. Rub a couple drops on the abdomen in a clockwise direction. It may be the physical touch or the aromatherapy affect, I don't know.

Off to bed, Pat

Actually she is talking about taking it internally.


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I did the intro diet yesterday, and this morning at 5am I started having hot flashes. I finally got up at about 7am -- well, couldn't get up is more like it, since I was also light-headed. I was so weak I had to get my husband to bring me some food (banana, emergen-c, and scrambled eggs). I finally had enough strength to take a quick shower. Now I'm freezing and shaky. I've felt a tiny bit nauseaus too.

Is this die-off? Does it happen so quickly? Or could it be my body's reaction to eating fish and eggs after not having any for years?

I was so tempted this morning to go back to my usual food. I can handle cravings and hunger, but hot flashes and dizziness while trying to take care of a baby are not cool.

Should I continue? Does any of this make sense?

New Mama! I'm so sorry that you're feeling so poorly - I felt pretty bad a few days into intro (after I had stopped drinking juice like it was heroin - had to cut back when I was 3 days into Intro and not feeling a thing). I had some shaky, low blood sugar-type reactions. I found that it was really important to be eating very frequently. A few times I even got out of bed at night to go get a snack. What I can tell you, though, is that what you're eating is very nourishing and I doubt that what you're feeling is harmful - I know you must be worried about that. Most people start to feel better after a day or two, but definately make sure you're eating frequently.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Need a little bit of help: I'm progressing nicely on SCD (meat, veggies, no diary, legumes or nuts/nut butter yet - introducing goat dairy on Monday). I'm take enzymes from GoL, as well as some other things (CLO, L-glutamine, Calcium). Dh and I are going to be ttc again in a couple of weeks, and I'm trying to determine if I should try to go off enzymes. Anyone have any advice about how I should determine if this is a good idea? E.g. go off them and watch for undigested particles in bm, etc. I'm not convinced that they are harmful during pregnancy, per se, I'm just trying to clarify my supplement situation and weed out what isn't necessary.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Need a little bit of help: I'm progressing nicely on SCD (meat, veggies, no diary, legumes or nuts/nut butter yet - introducing goat dairy on Monday). I'm take enzymes from GoL, as well as some other things (CLO, L-glutamine, Calcium). Dh and I are going to be ttc again in a couple of weeks, and I'm trying to determine if I should try to go off enzymes. Anyone have any advice about how I should determine if this is a good idea? E.g. go off them and watch for undigested particles in bm, etc. I'm not convinced that they are harmful during pregnancy, per se, I'm just trying to clarify my supplement situation and weed out what isn't necessary.

I personally wouldn't have a problem with taking enyzmes during pregnancy...I guess you just have to decide what you're comfortable with. From what I've read it seems they can be very helpful in healing the gut, so I would continue to take them...just my two cents worth.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I did the intro diet yesterday, and this morning at 5am I started having hot flashes. I finally got up at about 7am -- well, couldn't get up is more like it, since I was also light-headed. I was so weak I had to get my husband to bring me some food (banana, emergen-c, and scrambled eggs). I finally had enough strength to take a quick shower. Now I'm freezing and shaky. I've felt a tiny bit nauseaus too.

Is this die-off? Does it happen so quickly? Or could it be my body's reaction to eating fish and eggs after not having any for years?

I was so tempted this morning to go back to my usual food. I can handle cravings and hunger, but hot flashes and dizziness while trying to take care of a baby are not cool.

Should I continue? Does any of this make sense?

I had a lot of light-headedness and weakness while doing the intro diet--I only did it for one day because DH was out of town and I didn't feel able to properly care for DD while I felt like that. Have you tried taking epsom salt baths (helps with die off symptoms)? For a while I had an upset stomach for a bit every couple of days and that went away after I started soaking my feet in epsom salt water every day.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I had a lot of light-headedness and weakness while doing the intro diet--I only did it for one day because DH was out of town and I didn't feel able to properly care for DD while I felt like that. Have you tried taking epsom salt baths (helps with die off symptoms)? For a while I had an upset stomach for a bit every couple of days and that went away after I started soaking my feet in epsom salt water every day.

I'll try the epsom salt bath tonight, after DH gets home.

I had two SCD muffins -- I thought the honey and protein in the nuts might be good for my light-headedness. I really don't know how soon you're supposed to start eating them, or any nut flour, for that matter. Did I just do something wrong?

I'm almost thinking of jumping in to all the SCD legal foods right away...my vegan diet was heavy on the grains and breads, and I also ate chocolate bars and had soda once or twice a week. So I'm thinking my diet will still be way better, and without the tri- or polysaccharides... Would this be a bad move?

I just feel so awful, plus my son is teething and REALLY out of sorts.


----------



## roses1001 (Jun 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
1. at least 1 tbsp daily
2 (probably) 1 tsp daily
3. 1/2 tsp daily
4. 1 tsp daily

I personally am not afraid of large doses of natural vitamin A. Many cultures recomend pg women eat liver many times a week. A maintanence dose of liver is 1 serving a week. Also eggs are high in vitamin A. The Chineese have pg women eat 10 or more eggs daily if they can afford it!

Thanks for making it so easy-that's exactly what I needed!

Another question...We're supposed to gradually build up to the dosage, right? So, should we start with half the dosage for a few days? Is that slow enough?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *roses1001*
Thanks for making it so easy-that's exactly what I needed!

Another question...We're supposed to gradually build up to the dosage, right? So, should we start with half the dosage for a few days? Is that slow enough?

We just started with the whole dose but had been taking a lower dose of fish oils for quite a long time previous so I'm not sure.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I'll try the epsom salt bath tonight, after DH gets home.

I had two SCD muffins -- I thought the honey and protein in the nuts might be good for my light-headedness. I really don't know how soon you're supposed to start eating them, or any nut flour, for that matter. Did I just do something wrong?

I'm almost thinking of jumping in to all the SCD legal foods right away...my vegan diet was heavy on the grains and breads, and I also ate chocolate bars and had soda once or twice a week. So I'm thinking my diet will still be way better, and without the tri- or polysaccharides... Would this be a bad move?

I just feel so awful, plus my son is teething and REALLY out of sorts.









Remind me again of what issues you are trying to fix with the SCD?

Have you taken a look at the website www.pecanbread.com? It lists food for different stages--it is basically a guideline for figuring out which foods are easiest to digest. It has nut flours as stage 3 (out of 5 stages), so they are harder to digest than nut butters (stage 2). I've been doing SCD for 6 weeks and if I eat nut flour it shows up in my poop (sorry TMI!), but nut butters seem to be okay, and the stage 3 fruits/veggies seem okay, too.

Just keep in mind if you do add more advanced stuff it may interfere with the healing process since the more advanced stuff is harder to digest--I don't know if it would just take longer for healing to take place or if it would actually prevent healing if you add stuff too early. Plus if at some point you don't think you're healing it's hard not to second guess yourself and wonder if you've eaten stuff you shouldn't.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

New Mama, I haven't started SCD yet, nor for that matter even gotten the book (still waiting on the mail!), so take what I have to say with a grain of salt, but it sounds like you are detoxing, or as they say on this thread, experiencing die-off. I know that on the Eat to Live thread (a diet consisting of mainly veggies, fruit, beans, nuts and little fat and starches) many initially experience detoxing symtoms, which can of course vary in each person. If it were me, I think that I would try to go with it to see if it improved with a little time. If it is too much to bear, you could always start over and slowly acclimate yourself. Since you said that you relied heavily on carbs/grains, maybe try cutting those out first. Also, when I started eating more eggs (after being essentially vegan) I had to go slowly because otherwise I felt too quesy. I can now comfortably eat a number of them per week. I have not yet ventured into meats, but I am consuming fermented dairy and butter, which no problems, although I never really did have problems with dairy.

On that note, I just got cultured butter today. Oh my goodness is that good! So my new best treat ever is a slice of Jane's cashew bread with cultured butter and raw honey.







I realize that when starting SCD these things will initially be off limits, but for now, I am eating it up!

And I made firefaery's raw fudge recipe last night too. Amazing! I just love eating all this fat that I used to forgo.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Remind me again of what issues you are trying to fix with the SCD?

Have you taken a look at the website www.pecanbread.com? It lists food for different stages--it is basically a guideline for figuring out which foods are easiest to digest. It has nut flours as stage 3 (out of 5 stages), so they are harder to digest than nut butters (stage 2). I've been doing SCD for 6 weeks and if I eat nut flour it shows up in my poop (sorry TMI!), but nut butters seem to be okay, and the stage 3 fruits/veggies seem okay, too.

Just keep in mind if you do add more advanced stuff it may interfere with the healing process since the more advanced stuff is harder to digest--I don't know if it would just take longer for healing to take place or if it would actually prevent healing if you add stuff too early. Plus if at some point you don't think you're healing it's hard not to second guess yourself and wonder if you've eaten stuff you shouldn't.

I'm doing this mainly to try to clear up my mild-moderate case of acne and to help my almost-EBF son with his now-mild case of spitting up, although I'm also hoping he will sleep longer and more soundly at night.

I hear what you're saying...just didn't expect to feel quite this bad.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Things have been insanely busy IRL... we're going on vaca the first week of June... so I emailed clients the notice. Well practically all of them want stuff done beforehand!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Got Radiant Life CLO... and will definately stick with this brand, DS is taking it fine off the spoon. It has a fishy taste but truthfully I like it way better than Orange Blue Ice which was a mixture of fish/orange/rosemary









Radiant Life is $15/bottle too. Even just one bottle with shipping was same price as Nordic Naturals at WF.
http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/pr.../ct/1/pid/1034


----------



## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Got Radiant Life CLO... and will definately stick with this brand, DS is taking it fine off the spoon. It has a fishy taste but truthfully I like it way better than Orange Blue Ice which was a mixture of fish/orange/rosemary









Radiant Life is $15/bottle too. Even just one bottle with shipping was same price as Nordic Naturals at WF.
http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/pr.../ct/1/pid/1034

Thanks for the update on that. I am taking NN orange right now (just bought it before reading about the Radiant Life). Weird, but not terrible. I will try the RL next.

Can anyone direct me to info on L-glutamine? I keep seeing it pop up but don't know much about it. What do you take it for? Will I find much about it here in Healing the Gut or more in the Immunology thread in the vaccine forum? I'd love an explanation here but if it is easier just head me in the right direction. I will do a search too. Gosh, it is overwhelming trying to decide which supplements one needs.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Actually she is talking about taking it internally.

Hmmm.....I googled and there are concerns with the 3% due to some of the preservatives. What I recall is that Hydrogen peroxide diluted with ("enough")water just became water with some free oxygen ions released. It appears that the extra oxygen is the "therapeutic" goal of consumption? However, from what I skimmed, there is Food Grade 35% hydrogen peroxide which is utilized in processing foods. It MUST be diluted with water to something like 0.05% or 1/200 to be safe. http://tuberose.com/Hydrogen_Peroxide.html

So, I'd be very careful to have the correct product at the correct dilution. There was also info about putting a bottle in bath water for the oxygenation benefits. That sounds like a much less invasive method to consider.

Personally, I would NOT drink it. But, I'd feel quite fine bathing in it.

Just my $0.02

Pat


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

I started a blog to keep track of my SCD journey, if anyone's interested (and comments/suggestions always welcome):

http://scdjournal.blogspot.com/

Shanna, how is it going with you? Have you noticed any improvements?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

New Mama,
Have you read this thread yet? There was a discussion of babies, magnesium and sleep that I found to be VERY interesting and helpful.

Sorry, I don't remember who I see where and who's dealing w/what issues!


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I started a blog to keep track of my SCD journey, if anyone's interested (and comments/suggestions always welcome):

http://scdjournal.blogspot.com/

Shanna, how is it going with you? Have you noticed any improvements?

I have noticed significant improvements, though I'm worried I'm experiencing a little relapse. Those of you who broke out using Coconut oil, did you just keep it up and it resolved itself, or did you put off coconut oil for a while?

I'm a little worried that I've done advanced veggies too soon - I felt so confused by the book telling me that I could advance through veggies as soon as I wasn't experiencing diarhea, because I've never experienced diarhea. So i just went full-steam ahead to all veggies (mostly cooked), fruits (mostly raw) and meats. Not doing dairy yet, nor nuts/nut butters. However, I have had canned tomato sauce and last night I went to red lobster and trusted that the crab was naked, the oil and vinegar was legal and that the butter I'm using is not agravating me. If I don't go back to improvement, maybe I'll cut out the coconut oil and possibly the butter? And wait on dairy? I'm hoping that the cashews that I ate on Saturday are just still working themselves out.....It's the only time I've cheated, and MAN do I regret it......

I'm also feeling frustrated that I feel so much better, but my acne redness/scarring doesn't look a whole lot better. It's mostly a pain because people seem so confused by why I stay on this diet







: I'm tired of explaining it.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
I have noticed significant improvements, though I'm worried I'm experiencing a little relapse. Those of you who broke out using Coconut oil, did you just keep it up and it resolved itself, or did you put off coconut oil for a while?

I'm a little worried that I've done advanced veggies too soon - I felt so confused by the book telling me that I could advance through veggies as soon as I wasn't experiencing diarhea, because I've never experienced diarhea. So i just went full-steam ahead to all veggies (mostly cooked), fruits (mostly raw) and meats. Not doing dairy yet, nor nuts/nut butters. However, I have had canned tomato sauce and last night I went to red lobster and trusted that the crab was naked, the oil and vinegar was legal and that the butter I'm using is not agravating me. If I don't go back to improvement, maybe I'll cut out the coconut oil and possibly the butter? And wait on dairy? I'm hoping that the cashews that I ate on Saturday are just still working themselves out.....It's the only time I've cheated, and MAN do I regret it......

I'm also feeling frustrated that I feel so much better, but my acne redness/scarring doesn't look a whole lot better. It's mostly a pain because people seem so confused by why I stay on this diet







: I'm tired of explaining it.

Diahrea isn't the only reason to go slowly. We never had diahrea and I do not regret one bit that we went extremely slowly introducing foods. Just one new food a day and everything cooked, peeled and deseeded. I think you need to back up and try being more careful about your fruits and veggies. Remember that the idea is that you are trying to starve off those buggies in your gut (without starving yourself). Anything with fiber will feed them. Cooking your fruit and peeling and deseeding means that there is less hanging arround in there for them to thrive on. It isn't a healthy way to eat for the long term but it is how you can get ahead of the bulk of them and begin to get some healing. The pecan bread stages are a good guide to know if you need to pay closer attention to a food when you introduce it in case it is harder on you.

We have been on the diet for about 3 months now. Our symptoms were yeasty diaper rash on dd for a year. Her need to nurse constantly. And not sleeping long stretches at night. And apparently random mild rashes on her face after eating some foods. Does that sound severe to you? Oh and I have suspected for years that I have candidia overgrowth but it really didn't cause me any problems I couldn't deal with. A YI once a year or so. Yeast rashes a couple of times when I was under stress. I fit the description on many lists of yeast symptoms but honestly they are so broad reaching that there are plenty of other explainations for these issues as well.

Now that I have cleaned out my system I know pretty quickly if I get something it can't handle. I know that my gut is damaged and needs healing. I don't know that I really beleived that at first. I more figured I was doing this for my dd. I started this because she had her umpteenth cold of the winter and I was sick of her being sick and knowing that the immune system is rooted in the gut I figured if I didn't heal that she would continue to sucomb to everything that came down the pike.


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Hydrogen Peroxide is taken internally for MANY things. IT's actually the peroxide you want, not the oxygen. IFRC Peroxide is what lactobaccillus produces as a byproduct and it's what kills the yeast. IT is very effective, but there are different grades, so don't just buy it off the shelf at a convenience store and chug. It can be used very effectively for external yeast (as in vaginal, especially with an internal vaginal overgrowth) I use it as a last resort and don't usually need it as I have other things in my bag of tricks.







It is widely used in alternative circles though.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

"Flood Your Body with Oxygen" was recommended to me recently.
http://www.oxygenhealth.com/


----------



## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Excuse a newbie to this thread for jumping in with a dumb question.








But, I know I have yeast overgrowth, where do I start? Book, website, thread here, certain post?
And, can yeast kill off be done while nursing a toddler?
Thanks


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Liquid oxygen is amazing stuff. I gave it to my mother in the hospital and it made a real difference. We use if for colds and viruses as well as deep cuts. It's also great after a workout!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
Can anyone direct me to info on L-glutamine? I keep seeing it pop up but don't know much about it. What do you take it for? Will I find much about it here in Healing the Gut or more in the Immunology thread in the vaccine forum? I'd love an explanation here but if it is easier just head me in the right direction. I will do a search too. Gosh, it is overwhelming trying to decide which supplements one needs.

That is why things like making homemade bone broth regularly is so good... contains tons of easily absorbed minerals (cal/mag), gelatin .... *and glutamine!*

Takes all the guesswork out when you concentrate on the best food you can eat, rather than supplements and all the different numbers on the side of a jar.









For a previous poster:

*Bernard Jensen gelatin* is the best, totally tasteless and cheaper than Knox. Read about it here at FAQ link, but other places online are cheaper than Radiant Life: http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/pr.../ct/2/pid/1054


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
This is OT...
I'm on day 4 of taking Candidase between meals 3 times a day. I haven't noticed any change in me so far, no die-off and no improvement but my bf DD got some white centered red bumps on her tummy. Does this sound like yeast die-off? Is it because the enzymes are going through the breastmilk and killing yeast in her or the dead yeast is going through the milk?

Sounds like a virus, more info either at www.enzymestuff.com or her Yahoo group.

High proteases can bring out and kill a virus. They were doing trials with Enzymedica's Virastop for this reason.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Thanks ff - I'll have to wean her off of the o.j. now.
I can hear her still playing and talking. hyper, hyper, hyper.. . .
Glad I ordered that natural calm! Maybe it'll come tomorrow.

Epsom salts baths did this to my DS too.

He couldn't handle the extra sulfur. Has to do with sulfation and detox pathways in the body, of which I don't understand much of why. Some info. in Andrew Hall Cutler's books. Interestingly enough, the homeopath/Ped px'd Sulfur as his remedy.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
And is it important to take them between meals if your issue isn't yeast?

Yes, I think enzymes between meals can be beneficial for everyone. The high proteases clean up the junk and inflammation throughout your body. I think this was one of the things that really finally did the job for me.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
What do you all think of this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ance&n=3760901

Use KAL Dolomite powder for Cal/Mag instead, it's very cheap and pure.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Oh does anyone know if I make the cream cheese from raw milk ala nt will that be lactose free enough to use for the dccc?

And anyone have any ideas for culturing juice? I'm now feeling like that could be another source of probiotics in our life but i'm not sure how to do it. NT has a lot of recipes assuming you are starting from raw juice. I have pasturized juice and I want to improve it. Any ideas? I have some milk kefir grains, could i use those? What else? Should I post this on the NT thread?

Probably not re: cream cheese according to NT recipe, but what about just dripping yogurt? A lot of steps, I know.

Yes you can convert milk grains to water/juice grains. See Dom's site:
http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/...#Kefir-d-acqua

There is also a water kefir thread right now in Nutrition forum.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Kefir is illegal because of the yeasts in it.

Not necessarily, you can culture kefir longer to remove lactose. Elaine said on a couple of occasions that it could be good for advanced folks but she just didn't know enough about the probiotic science. I think she kept faithful to Dr. Haas' diet and did not want to deviate.

The beneficial yeasts in kefir crowd out the bad ones. But people do have reactions to it and maybe the alcohol is not appropriate for those who are producing alcohol like toxins on their own too (depending on the sort of mix they have in their gut).


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
I started a thread for healing the gut success stories but there were no replies. I know a few of you (JaneS for one) have talked about your success but other than that I haven't heard about a lot. I would really love to hear what is working for you and what you have improved/cured/however you want to put it, lol. This thread is full of lots of informative questions and discussions of particular journeys, but at this point I need to hear/see more evidence of what is working for people. Any stories?

Where is this thread?

I think it would be helpful to tease out the previous stories to put in one place, maybe you can go back and link them in your thread?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
Subbing (and in lots of pain







)
I've been dealing with digestive issues for years. About 4 years ago I had many tests - CDSA and food sensitivity tests. The CDSA showed lots of bad bugs, both bacterial and fungal while the food allergy tests showed I wasn't reacting to many foods I had suspected might have been a cause of my issues (casein and wheat for instance). I started phone consults with Trent Nichols (gastroenterologist who focuses on nutrition) and finally got everything under control. I had been spending oodles of money on supplements and nothing really seemed to make a long term improvement.

It was around this time that I started getting into NT/WAPF and became a chapter leader.

I also suffer from endometriosis which is completely connected to my digestive woes. I'm due any minute for AF and my stomach is a complete wreck.

After getting pg with my daughter I began eating more foods that I know I shouldn't. It was the first time in years that my stomach felt great no matter what I ate so I went hogwild. Obviously it was all because of my immune system being on hold so after I had my daughter my problems came back. I really think there's a hormonal connection (again, all tests have come back normal but I'm guessing it's just not being detected) because I felt great until AF returned when dd was around 1.

My diet is still based on whole foods but I eat just about everything without hesitation. We're heading to France next week and I expect to (and want to) eat without reservation. After I come back I want to start reassessing my health and embark on a short cleanse to get back on track. I'm so tired of feeling like shit all the time. It is affecting every aspect of my life.

ETA: The only supplement I'm currently taking with consistency is Primal Defense. It used to be the one supplement I could count on and now I seem to not be benefiting. I've tried just about every supplement under the sun and am wondering what others think would be my next best choice. Some of the supplements I've tried worked for a while and then didn't and others made me feel worse (enzymes for instance).
I know diet is key so that's where I intend to start but I'm guessing I've got yeast issues to overcome (feeling very yeasty these days - chronic UTIs too) and also REALLY need to heal the lining of my poor, inflammed gut.









Welcome!

Enzymes should be at the top of your list to try again. But go much more slowly.

What are you eating for ferments? Any yogurt/kefir/kombucha/kvass? You might also check out the Health Recovery Diet in EFLF. I cannot do it whole hog right now b/c I just don't have the motivation now that I'm doing better. But it is inspiring me to continue with the bone broths, eat more Coconut oil and milk and try different cultured beverages. And eat liver.

I tend to think now that most hormonal issues are all fat related. Dietary fats. Are you sticking to all traditional fats or are you eating more omega-6's? (which bomb our hormones). How likely is it that you are vit. A deficient? Are you taking CLO?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mmMommy*
Hi all,

I've been lurking on these boards for a few weeks just trying to assimilate it all. I was hoping you kind ladies could help.

DS dx with milk allergy @7weeks with blood in his stools. Neocate started. 6m we started solids and he did great. At 9 months he reacted with rashes. We thought it was wheat since Cheerios was the last new food we had given. Took out, but rash still not completely gone. Finally took all solids out for 3 weeks (DS was 10m at this time). Rash went away.

Started one new food a week. Rice first week of March went fine, so did sweet potatoes. Green beans, peas and squash he got a rash on the 6-7 day of trial. Then slowly he started reacting to rice and sweet potatoes with the rash. I knew this because I stopped trialling other foods at the beginning of April.

He RAST neg and skin test negative in February.

Dx with delayed food allergies...non igE allergies.

So now at 12.5m we have pulled the two solids he could eat out. Per the ped/allergists at Stanford we are giving him 6m off solids.

I've been talking to a john's hopkins MD who also does homeopathic medicine. She thinks that DS has leaky gut syndrome. And that while 6m will help, if he eats any of the foods too often or in excess the sensitivities will come back.
She also agreed that don't worry about feeding him for the next few months and to give him gut rest. Which I geuss is what the allergist at Stanford Children's Hospital are saying in just a different way.

She said probiotics often help. I'm afraid that he'll be allergic to those too.

But I feel like the Stanford Doctors who while they acknowledge delayed food allergies say not much is known about them....aren't being pro active enough.

I know IgG testing is not as accurate but isn't it a starting pt? Isn't there something we can do?

I don't want to keep trying new foods b/c he is seeming to become allergic to everything with time. And I think the Stanford Doctors and Homeopathic/MD both think that resting his gut will help. But I am just so confused. Nobody I know has allergies and allergic to everything is blowing my mind!

I want to cry b/c he wants to eat and all I can give him is formula =(

I hope you could help. Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

Arati

His intestinal flora never got a chance. And formula doesn't support it's growth or add to it. Therefore the lack of probiotics in his system is causing all this. Yes it definately sounds like leaky gut. His skin/food reactions sound like my DS's story. I don't know if you or he had antibx too?

Reading "Breaking the Vicious Cycle" and one of Karen DeFelice's books on enzymes will give you a better understanding of food "allergies" than any mainstream doctor.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
I have a raw milk question. Does it smell and taste a little odd (maybe like it is old milk) even when fresh? I get it at the organic food coop and even the day I buy it it just seems a little off. Is this normal or is it not fresh enough? My ds likes it but nobody else in the family will use it. I tolerate it knowing it is supposed to be good for me. I am not a milk fan anyway.

No, it should be sweet and fresh. If this happens, then it is not being kept consistently cold enough after bottling. However, the type of grass will effect the taste a bit.


----------



## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Where is this thread?

I think it would be helpful to tease out the previous stories to put in one place, maybe you can go back and link them in your thread?









Good idea. I went back and found a few and linked them in the thread. Here it is
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=448391
If I missed anyone feel free to lmk and I can link it too.

Thanks for the reply on the milk also. I would really like to find a local source. Our coop gets it from up north so you might be right on about the refrigeration issue

Sybil


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Does anyone know if a food is any more likely to be tolerated by DD if I only eat a little at first? I'm going to start 24 hr goat yogurt tomorrow and I'm really not sure what to look for as to whether she is tolerating it or not. Should I just eat however much I want and see if she reacts or is it better to ease into it? I'm not really expecting a huge reaction either way--I would guess that either she'll have an eczema flare-up (hers is always pretty mild in any case) or the bloody poop will come back, if she does have a reaction. The only thing she's reacted to thus far are enzymes, no foods (first with major naptime issues, then when I re-started them slower, with eczema flare-ups that went away slowly every time I increased the amount).

I hope this makes sense--I can't seem to type coherently today!


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Does anyone know if I can eat the dry curd cottage cheese on day four of doing SCD?

Maybe it's just me, but I'm finding the book less than useful for instructions on just how to go about the diet. For instance, I think she says to hold off on introducing the yogurt for a while, but then in another section she lists the SCD cheesecake (which has the yogurt and the DCCC) as being something to use during the intro period.

Anyway, my yogurt maker hasn't arrived yet (I've tried making it using the cooler/heating pad method and it did not work AT ALL) so I'll hold off on that for a while anyway. But there's a custard recipe in the book using DCCC that I'd like to try tomorrow. I need some variety!


----------



## violin4 (May 20, 2006)

I have been reading through the cheat sheet and my eyeballs are spinning. Very interesting stuff but major brain overload. *If I do the SDC diet will it help my nursing baby heal his gut?* *Is this the best place to start?* I've purchased 3 different probiotics in the last few weeks. He reacts to Baby's Jarro-dophilus and Natures Way Primadophilus Bifidus so I put out over $60 for Kirkman Labs hypoallergenic Super Pro-Bio. Now I read on the cheat sheet links that the Inulin and some of the bacteria might not be OK (at least not SDC legal). Have I wasted my money once again?

Let me give some background:

DS born at 35 weeks due to my preeclampsia. He had three days of IV antibiotics during his two weeks in the NICU. Extremely fussy and uncomfortable baby from the time he came home. Got fussy after every feeding. No sleep for 2 1/2 mo. What seems to have helped most are allergy elimination diet and reflux med. Happier now. Sleeps OK. Still needs carried most of time during day. Just started getting some decent daytime sleep last month when started Zegerid (PPI for reflux). I worry about supressing stomach acid (and also the fact that it is sweetened with sucralose) but it is really nice to have him not be miserable when he tries to eat and actually be able to sleep more than 15 minutes during the day and not be wimpering like he's in pain.

Allergy stuff:

Started with face rashes and bullseye diaper rash in Dec.. All over Eczema in Feb. Very gassy and fussy from beginning. Diareah started in January and Never went away. Mucusy poops started in Feb. and blood spots in March.

Started Dr. Sears allergy elimination diet end of January (had been free of major allergens for a while before this). Found his face and bottom cleared and looked beautiful when I eat only sweet potatoes, brown rice and turkey (pears, millet and squash were a problem). Also much less gas and fussiness. Any attempts to add foods back in bring on rashes, gas fussiness, mucus, blood etc.

Until a few weeks ago it seemed that he only had mucus & blood in his diapers when I trialed a new food and I could control it by eating only those three foods (although it was still runny). Then for easter I tried eating ham with my swt pot & br rice. Major mucusy diapers ever since. Also he now seems to get slightly rashy on his face even though I am only eating those three foods (major rash with new food trials). I started using Kirkman labs zinc cream on his eczema recently and that seems to be helping some.

*How do I heal his gut while he's strictly bf in a way that doesn't trigger allergic reactions?*

Ped GI said do a month on Neocate. Baby doesn't like it and can't get much down him. Also very reticent to give up bf. How can all those
corn syrup solids be good for him? I've read of it causing constipation and I have a nightmare on my hands with two older kids that have chronic constipation and do not want to repeat this. BTW- his poops have not been quite so runny since starting on pro-biotic. More like paste. See definite change but not normal yet and still seeing mucus. We have dubbed them popcorn poopies because they smell strongly like microwave popcorn but just not quite so pleasant. At least it is not the terrible smell that he has had at times after I've trialed a new food. I dream of seeing (and smelling) normal nursing poopies again but begin to doubt that will ever happen.

I have what I assume are blood sugar issues. The only way I have gotten relief from a lot of problems is by following a very low carb diet. It seems to keep my blood sugar much more stable. Sweet Potatoes and Rice are way too high carb for me and I am dealing with brain fog and often feeling like I want to cry (my low bs signs) as a result.

Thanks for reading all this! Has anyone had success with this kind of problem? What works?

Thanks,

Kara


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Hi Kara,
Yes, I think this diet can help you and through you help your little one. Actually, this is why I started this diet - - to help dd2. I did not think *I* needed the healing but I worked on me, b'fed her and now am only slowly introducing SCD legal foods to her.

I also did elimination diets (as did lots of other ladies here) and they seemed to make things worse instead of better for both of us.

I started SCD and am so thankful I found it. We've seen *major* improvement. (A little regression lately, which I want to post about later), but overall the change in dd is remarkable. (Not to mention that I feel great too!)

IMO, I'd stop the probiotics you've bought and try to make some 24 hour yogurt. I'd start taking CLO (I think all b'feeding moms should take it!) and quit the neocate ASAP and go back to b'milk only.

Welcome.







You'll learn a TON here!


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Question on DCCC. The brand name is Friendship? I bought some Friendship cottage cheese (4% milkfat), but it didn't say dry any where. Is this the same thing? I haven't tried it yet because I am still officially waiting to start SCD until my book comes, although I guess I could study the websites a bit more closely.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

It's called Friendship Farmer's Cheese. It's not the cottage cheese. It comes in a small square package. I don't think it says dry curd on the front which also confused me at first too.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Oh drat. What they heck do I do with the darn cottage cheese now.







:


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Kara,

Yes the diet can help your babe--immensely. Is your son having any anaphlyactic reactions to anything? Have you had him tested formally for allergies??

The rice and sweet potatoes you are eating are contraindicated in the SCD. Let's say you have a yeast problem, the grains can ferment in your gut, feeding your yeast and continuing the vicious cycle. IIRC, the sweet potatoes, when broken down, feed the yeast via sugar. Or bacteria.

I would stay away from food he is reacting to if he has an ana reaction. Otherwise I would start the diet and use enzymes. I get mine from Houston, http://216.114.78.114/webcenter/site...438&N=Products I use (all in powder so that my 4 yr can use it), No Fenol, AFP Peptizide (tastes less strong than original Peptizide) and Zyne Prime. If you are going to get capsules, make sure you get the ones that say "SCD" on them. You consume the enzymes before you eat or snack. They sit in your leaky gut and wait 90 min until you eat something. The cool thing about them in regards to leaky gut that while your leaky gut is healing, via the SCD, it breaks the food down so that when it escapes through your gut holes (







) it is no longer a whole food and, theoretically, shouldn't cause any reactions.

Oh, and I posted a link to my 1st son's story about 7 pages back. Very similar.

In terms of probiotics, I use Garden of Life Primal Defense, which is not SCD legal. I use the powder and lick my finger and stick it in my babe's cheek. For whatever reason, he loves it (he also loves sodium ascorbate and quercetin like that too, so maybe he is just strange







). You also might want to look into quercetin, it can diminish an allergic response. I got mine from Bayro, the brand is Designs for Health.

Oh, and Neocate is crap, but you knew that already.









Okay hope that helps, and hope I didn't misrepresent the diet








Amy


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Oh drat. What they heck do I do with the darn cottage cheese now.







:

Can you warm it up and ferment it like yogurt??


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_dalai_mama*
Excuse a newbie to this thread for jumping in with a dumb question.








But, I know I have yeast overgrowth, where do I start? Book, website, thread here, certain post?
And, can yeast kill off be done while nursing a toddler?
Thanks










Did my question get lost or is it just too obvious?
I was just hoping someone might have a starting point its going to take me a bit to sift through 34 pages of this thread looking for the best place to start.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Hi Dalai Mama









At the top of the H&H board there is a cheat sheet for Healing the Gut Mamas, or SCD, I don't remember.









Most of us are on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, check out www.pecanbread.com (or .org).

And you can kill yeast while bfing a toddler, I'm nursing a 4yr old and an18m old.

hth
Amy


----------



## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Thanks AmyD!

(I knew I was asking the obvious! Thanks for steering me there







)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Sorry Dalai Mama!

Probably just got lost... this is a crazy thread, keeps getting more busy every month.

Check out the Cheat Sheet stickied at the top of the H&H forum.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=434071

Many mamas are nursing here, you just might need to go slower on certain things and avoid other strong "killers" like oregano oil for ex. to minimize die off and reactions in your babe.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_dalai_mama*
Thanks AmyD!

(I knew I was asking the obvious! Thanks for steering me there







)

This is a good website for yeast info, too
http://www.ei-resource.org/candida.asp


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *violin4*
I have been reading through the cheat sheet and my eyeballs are spinning. Very interesting stuff but major brain overload. *If I do the SDC diet will it help my nursing baby heal his gut?* *Is this the best place to start?* I've purchased 3 different probiotics in the last few weeks. He reacts to Baby's Jarro-dophilus and Natures Way Primadophilus Bifidus so I put out over $60 for Kirkman Labs hypoallergenic Super Pro-Bio. Now I read on the cheat sheet links that the Inulin and some of the bacteria might not be OK (at least not SDC legal). Have I wasted my money once again?

Let me give some background:

DS born at 35 weeks due to my preeclampsia. He had three days of IV antibiotics during his two weeks in the NICU. Extremely fussy and uncomfortable baby from the time he came home. Got fussy after every feeding. No sleep for 2 1/2 mo. What seems to have helped most are allergy elimination diet and reflux med. Happier now. Sleeps OK. Still needs carried most of time during day. Just started getting some decent daytime sleep last month when started Zegerid (PPI for reflux). I worry about supressing stomach acid (and also the fact that it is sweetened with sucralose) but it is really nice to have him not be miserable when he tries to eat and actually be able to sleep more than 15 minutes during the day and not be wimpering like he's in pain.

Allergy stuff:

Started with face rashes and bullseye diaper rash in Dec.. All over Eczema in Feb. Very gassy and fussy from beginning. Diareah started in January and Never went away. Mucusy poops started in Feb. and blood spots in March.

Started Dr. Sears allergy elimination diet end of January (had been free of major allergens for a while before this). Found his face and bottom cleared and looked beautiful when I eat only sweet potatoes, brown rice and turkey (pears, millet and squash were a problem). Also much less gas and fussiness. Any attempts to add foods back in bring on rashes, gas fussiness, mucus, blood etc.

Until a few weeks ago it seemed that he only had mucus & blood in his diapers when I trialed a new food and I could control it by eating only those three foods (although it was still runny). Then for easter I tried eating ham with my swt pot & br rice. Major mucusy diapers ever since. Also he now seems to get slightly rashy on his face even though I am only eating those three foods (major rash with new food trials). I started using Kirkman labs zinc cream on his eczema recently and that seems to be helping some.

*How do I heal his gut while he's strictly bf in a way that doesn't trigger allergic reactions?*

Ped GI said do a month on Neocate. Baby doesn't like it and can't get much down him. Also very reticent to give up bf. How can all those
corn syrup solids be good for him? I've read of it causing constipation and I have a nightmare on my hands with two older kids that have chronic constipation and do not want to repeat this. BTW- his poops have not been quite so runny since starting on pro-biotic. More like paste. See definite change but not normal yet and still seeing mucus. We have dubbed them popcorn poopies because they smell strongly like microwave popcorn but just not quite so pleasant. At least it is not the terrible smell that he has had at times after I've trialed a new food. I dream of seeing (and smelling) normal nursing poopies again but begin to doubt that will ever happen.

I have what I assume are blood sugar issues. The only way I have gotten relief from a lot of problems is by following a very low carb diet. It seems to keep my blood sugar much more stable. Sweet Potatoes and Rice are way too high carb for me and I am dealing with brain fog and often feeling like I want to cry (my low bs signs) as a result.

Thanks for reading all this! Has anyone had success with this kind of problem? What works?

Thanks,

Kara

If you go back to post 494 (or maybe 492 can't remember which) on page 25, someone else posted with a babe with very similar issues to yours--allergies to absolutely everything. If you read that and some of the replies to that you may also get some answers (just cuz I'm too lazy to type a long post right now!).


----------



## violin4 (May 20, 2006)

I started SCD and am so thankful I found it. We've seen *major* improvement. (A little regression lately, which I want to post about later), but overall the change in dd is remarkable. (Not to mention that I feel great too!)

How old is DD? What improvements have you seen?

I'd start taking CLO (I think all b'feeding moms should take it!)

what is CLO?

and quit the neocate ASAP and go back to b'milk only.

He is on breastmilk only. We only tried Neocate a couple of times and could never get him to drink much of it.

Thanks for your input!

Kara


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Kara

I think you are on the right track. It's so obvious from your experience that it's not just what you take out but what you put into a diet/healing plan. That is why elmination diets just don't work.

It's sad that drs only have Neocate to recommend. That is not adequate support for a challenged immune system, yet it's not seen that way at all. BM is liquid gold, I'm telling you. I was stupid to wean my DS, don't anyone ever make my mistake!

CLO is cod liver oil. See here:
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...fications.html


----------



## violin4 (May 20, 2006)

AmyD said:


> Kara,
> Is your son having any anaphlyactic reactions to anything?
> 
> No anaphylactic reactions. Just skin, bowel, and scream fests.
> ...


----------



## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Thanks again! I see from the stickie that NT is part of this. Yay! This I have done parts of in the past, which makes me feel much less intimidated about this undertaking. One more question for tonight:
*
We are moving in a few weeks and things are a wee bit hectic, how much sense does it make to incorporate those parts of NT that I already know well and start the SCD and Candida Kill Off (for lack of knowing the correct term







) mid summer after we are settled and back from our annual trek to visit grandparents ?*

Thanks again!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Kara,
If you read my blog, the last entry is our story. I jotted it down one night for another new member to this thread (can't remember who now!) It's a bit long and probably doesn't contain ALL of the things we went through, but most of it's there. I've not read it since that night I wrote it in the wee hours of the a.m. while doing an all night nurse fest w/dd so it's not been edited but it will answer some of the questions you just asked.

the_dalai_mama,
If you wait until mid summer you won't see any healing or improvement until then. NT is great, but alone won't help heal you.


----------



## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*

the_dalai_mama,
If you wait until mid summer you won't see any healing or improvement until then. NT is great, but alone won't help heal you.


So, how crazy is the idea of trying to start SCD while moving and teaching part time?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

violin4 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *AmyD*
> ...


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *the_dalai_mama*
So, how crazy is the idea of trying to start SCD while moving and teaching part time?
It's not easy to start but once you get the hang of it it really becomes second nature.

I started during my serious sleep deprivation when I was averaging 4 hours sleep per night and NO chance to catch up during the day. I was also chasing a very active toddler while trying to heal myself and my baby. I felt I *had* to do it. And I was right.

I know others have started this diet under more difficult circumstances than mine. I guess what it all comes down to is how badly do you want to start healing?


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
I am confused about this post by JaneS in relation to the current discussion of Omega 3's, CLO, and vitamin A as they relate to depression. Maybe I am not putting this all together properly but I think it was suggested to use a low vitamin CLO such as NN in high doses to get higher Omega 3's to help depression. Is JaneS's info above contradictory to this? I am not trying to doubt anyone, just clarify







. I don't know how to quote twice in a post so don't have the quote about the CLO and depression. Amanda-I think you were posting about it? Can you clarify for my feeble and exhausted







little brain

Yes, It's contradictory because Jane's argument is that you need the Vit A in the high vitamin CLO to protect against oxidation. Search for an article on Vit A by Chris Masterjohn. The issue is that in depression studies, they use much higher than normal doses. I think most studies actually use fish oil, with no vitamin content. The studies find a positive effect. I'm just following the lead of the studies even though there may be something to the Vit A argument.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
so, I can't afford the tests for amino acids. Which ones should I experiment with for depression and anxiety, and how much should I start with? Does it matter the brand? If I get frequent migraines, how would that be affected. I know prozac made them worse. Cow's milk makes them worse, even as 24 hour yogurt.

Get the book The Mood Cure. She describes how you can use a trial-and-error approach. I don't think the brands matter except that some have B-6 in them which is good insurance if you are not supplementing B-6 otherwise. (You need B6 to convert the aminos to various hormones like serotonin)


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Another question....
How are you guys finding money to get all these supplements and food! I've been spending 2-3 times as much on food plus I take a bunch of supplements and I'm learning that I need more, I just can't afford it! My DH is very upset about my spending sprees and change in cooking habits. There's no way I can get a job with a 2-y and a 10-month old.

Don't get me started.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
firefaery - what would you recommend I take in terms of clo? I'm b'feeding and would like to supplement extra for depression. I have Blue Ice and NN both. Right now I'm only taking 1 tsp. Blue Ice. That's probably not enough right?

I would take a combination of the two. Check the DHA+ EPA contents on the back of each, calculate your A and D too, and dose the DHA+EPA up to about 4 grams. I guarantee you that your budget will determine how much of the NN to take. It takes a lot of spoonfuls to get to 4 grams.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ericaz*
Subbing (and in lots of pain







)

It's good to see you again Erica. Long time. I'm sorry to read your story. How long will you be in France?


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
What is sublingual B-12?

It dissolves under the tongue


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
Wow. I must really be in bad shape. I could answer yes to almost every single question. So, how would I go about supplementing amino acids? Any recommendations?

I am really depressed, too and feeling lack of support from dh. I've been in counseling for a year and dh and I have been doing joint counseling for a month. The counselor suggested to me last night to take classes or something giving me job skills so that I have some confidence in myself if I decide to leave dh. And that I need to decide what level of happiness I am willing to live with. Not encouraging.

I'm having lots of trouble sleeping, too. I bought some melatonin last night and tried it. It did make me feel really sleepy, but I still had lots of trouble getting to sleep and I woke up countless times during the night. I am so tired during the day and feel as if I'd been crying all night.

Sorry to whine. Anyway, any suggestions on sleep aids? I am thinking of buying magnesium and trying that.

You should also pick up a copy of The Mood Cure or have the amino acid blood test (which would be something like $125 ordered through your doctor). MT in the vax forum recommends magnesium in the afternoon so it will reach peak blood levels by bed time.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Seems like I read about a natural remedy for constipation here a while back. (?) Anybody have suggestions?
DD1 is sooo constipated today. Dh gave her milk last night







and she's already had 2 sippy cups of prune juice and nothing. I hate to do a suppository again as it throws everything off afterward.









Magnesium in high doses will take care of it. Even enough epsom salt in her bath could do it. I'm not sure how much.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Hmmm Took the quiz.

Apparently I need gaba and endorphins and possibly Serotonin (just one over the cut off on that one.)

I can't imagine that anyone doing this diet wouldn't have depression issues. It is extremely stressful to keep up with and yet better than keeping up with life before the diet (if more purposeful which has it's own stress.)

Yes, and yeast die-off akes you crazy too.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
I took the quiz, and the only one I scored above the cutoff was the first one, the dark cloud one. The other three, I was at the number for the cutoff -- e.g., I scored four on the one that if you're over four, you need that amino acid. So I guess I'm low in serotonin. Which is what amino acid? L-tryptophan?

5HTP


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Galeforce--Eat Fat Lose Fat says high quality nutritional yeast has all the B vitamins but one...B12 maybe? What do you think of nutritional yeast? I'd really prefer to get my vitamins/minerals from food rather than supplements if at all possible, although I know nutritional yeast isn't SCD legal.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

If I see little bits of undigested nuts in my stool when I eat almond flour, should I assume I'm probably not digesting raspberries (cooked) properly, either? And is it actually doing damage if I'm not digesting the nuts right? Actually I'm trying to eat almond butter but my Vita Mix doesn't do all that great of a job of making almond butter, so there's still little bits in there.


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Galeforce--Eat Fat Lose Fat says high quality nutritional yeast has all the B vitamins but one...B12 maybe? What do you think of nutritional yeast? I'd really prefer to get my vitamins/minerals from food rather than supplements if at all possible, although I know nutritional yeast isn't SCD legal.

That's a good source. Some are fortified with B12, so that would take care of it. I took a lot of nutritional yeast before I was pregnant and it helped with my energy a lot. The taste is terrible though.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
That's a good source. Some are fortified with B12, so that would take care of it. I took a lot of nutritional yeast before I was pregnant and it helped with my energy a lot. The taste is terrible though.

IIRC, the brand is Red Star. I make a cheese sauce w/it & have it over broccoli


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

This might be a silly question, but how many times a day do you all eat yogurt? Can too much be a bad thing?


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
If I see little bits of undigested nuts in my stool when I eat almond flour, should I assume I'm probably not digesting raspberries (cooked) properly, either? And is it actually doing damage if I'm not digesting the nuts right? Actually I'm trying to eat almond butter but my Vita Mix doesn't do all that great of a job of making almond butter, so there's still little bits in there.

Just because you aren't digesting it doesn't mean it is causing harm. I would keep eating it unless it causes pain or other bad symptoms. Sooner or later you will start digesting it. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Change happens slowly. You will get there.


----------



## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *violin4*
NO. He's too young for them to be accurate.

Kara, if he's 5.5 months he could be tested for allergies. Ask for a RAST, (bloodtest). Some doctors claim that they aren't accurate in babies. The reality is that they can be quite accurate. It was accurate for at least 3 of my dd's allergies at the age of 6 months. It can give you an idea of things to avoid. Our ped only tested for the most common allergens-milk, egg, wheat, peanuts, shellfish, soy, cockroaches, dust mites, dogs, cats, mold, and I think maybe two types of seasonal allergies. I had already eliminated the top food allergens from my diet cause I was breastfeeding her, but I would have never figured out her allergy to dogs without the test. We were spending a lot of time at a friend's who has dogs.

Anyway, he can be allergy tested if you want him to be tested. And if you want to get lots of advice/encouragement from an allergy standpoint, the website Kids With Food Allergies would be a good place to go. Not necessarily much info on leaky gut or alternative therapies, though.

Good luck.


----------



## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

I have been having some flaky scalp issues ever since I moved from Florida to Indiana. I was about 6 months pregnant at the time. I never had this in all the years I lived in Indiana before I moved to Florida, though. I have switched from using commercial shampoos and conditioners to using a baking soda paste and apple cider vinegar instead. The problem is worse now! I have dark brown hair, and I swear I was just sooo close to not going out to dinner last night because I had so many white flakes in my hair. I ended up using some bath oil to keep them from appearing, but it took me 25 minutes to get this to happen.
Last week I did the spit test to see if I have a yeast problem, and it appears that I do.
Anyway, I would like to do a modified liver cleanse to try and rid myself of this scalp problem (some believe that the skin and the liver are related), but I would have to think that doing a cleanse while breastfeeding is not a good idea. Am I wrong? DD is just about 20 months, but she still nurses about anywhere from 10-20 times per 24 hour period.
Are there any alternatives? I am slowly addressing the yeast issue (drinking Pao d'Arco tea, taking probiotics, and taking coconut oil supplementily and I also take about 270 mg of GLA via evening primrose oil capsules daily), but I think yeast overgrowth can cause this, too? I am pretty sure it's not a food allergy, as my diet before Indiana is not too much different than it is now, now it's a lot better! I have looked at the SCD and it seems very doable, but I have to get through some family stuff right now before I embark on the journey.
Am I kidding myself that this scalp is *not* yeast related?


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

I remembered how many of you ladies are doing raw garlic as supplement, and it reminded me of a mango salsa I've been making lately that has raw garlic in it and is a great way to get it down. (Probably not so helpful for the ladies with yeast issues, since it has fruit).

1 mango or papaya, peeled and diced
2 cloves garlic, pressed
1 T fresh ginger, ground
2t fresh lemon juice
2T chopped cilantro
1/2t cumin
1/4 t red pepper flakes

*You could add more garlic/less fruit to get more in you, but it really is a tasty way to get raw garlic. If it helps.....

Also wanted to add that it seems like coconut milk or butternut squash was the culprit in my relapse - today I'm back to my baseline after backtracking to eliminate them







I'm a little surprised that butternut squash is so early in SCD - I was in heaven when I introduced it, since it tapered my potato hankering. Now I'm not surprised that it reminded my body of potatoes







Going to start 24 hour goat yogurt tomorrow, wish me luck! If I could just do nut butter without a reaction, I'd could do this forever.....


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

So I was doing what is quickly becoming my weekly price comparison between the different CLO brands ("There _has_ to be something cheaper!!! Nope? Well, maybe the numbers will be different next week"







)

I know we've been talking about Radient Life brand, but I'm astounded by just how much more potent that stuff is than any other high-vitamin brand. Is there anything about this brand that I'm missing, besides that it has to be the nastiest? I just can't believe that you get as much A&D in a half t as you do a whole t with other brands......


----------



## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

Hi Ive been lerking off and on for a while.

I've had candida overgrowth in my tummy scince Nov. but the antibiotics I had with the brith of my daughter got me here in the forst place.

I've eliminated yeast, wheat,gluten , caffine, ect from my diet and am working with a MND in town.

My biigest frustration is that I'm still nursing and it keeps me from taking alot of herbs. Ive been takeing an acidophious with 15 strains for months now a t high doses, its called Iflora. any take it before? know of anything better?

All was intersted in info on Raw Milk.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

For those who've taken enzymes between meals: what did/do you take, and how often? How long did you take them between meals? I have Candidase and it says the intensive course is 2 caps 3x day for 14 days (1 bottle worth). Would that be enough along with my other yeast-killing things (raw garlic and hopefully goat yogurt)? And if I need to continue taking them in between meals, can I do a reduced dosage?


----------



## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

MommyofPunkiePie~
(I grew up in Indiana







)

I have a dry scalp constantly too, and I have always attributed it to nusing, though I know I have yeast overgrowth too. Mine is somewhat better if I only shower 2x/week and take CLO, but not completely. I tried no poo but it didn't help at all, so I use Aubrey Organic's Shampoo for sensitive scalp, which seems to minimize the issue.
No answers, just right there with you.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

I have an SCD/yeasties question:

So if one is prone to the yeasties, what does one do on SCD? Just skip the juices and fruits? And then when in the first stages if skipping juices and fruits, does one eat more frequently so that one doesn't crash?

I'm a wee bit into Stage 2 and am finding that all of that fruit juice and fruit juice gelatin is making the yeasties go a bit crazy - last night my ears were so itchy it actually kept me awake - woke me up a few times. (For me a sure sign that the yeasties are invading.)

Honestly though I find that the juice keeps me from crashing...I'm hypoglycemic, so without frequent fuel sources, my blood sugar plummets and I crash HARD. And I find it difficult enough to make my three meals a day with a 9 month old who refuses to be put down long enough for me to cook.

Does anyone have any practical advice or been there or...what do I do? I'm finding this to be all so difficult - more than once lately I've not eaten in enogh time and had horrible, horrible days - fighting with DH to the point of feeling like I want a divorce - crazy stuff.

I'm introducing new foods so slowly and also having such a hard time makig any progress with things I can eat - I mean what's good at all about zucchini that's been peeled and de-seeded? Sorry for my typos, my DS needs me...


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
So I was doing what is quickly becoming my weekly price comparison between the different CLO brands ("There _has_ to be something cheaper!!! Nope? Well, maybe the numbers will be different next week"







)

I know we've been talking about Radient Life brand, but I'm astounded by just how much more potent that stuff is than any other high-vitamin brand. Is there anything about this brand that I'm missing, besides that it has to be the nastiest? I just can't believe that you get as much A&D in a half t as you do a whole t with other brands......

This is very similar to the blue ice oil. I did find one site with the wrong stats on the blue ice and said that 1 tbsp the 5000 of a but that is 1/2 tsp for that one.

http://www.greenpasture.org/cod_liver_oil.php


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
I have an SCD/yeasties question:

So if one is prone to the yeasties, what does one do on SCD? Just skip the juices and fruits? And then when in the first stages if skipping juices and fruits, does one eat more frequently so that one doesn't crash?

I'm a wee bit into Stage 2 and am finding that all of that fruit juice and fruit juice gelatin is making the yeasties go a bit crazy - last night my ears were so itchy it actually kept me awake - woke me up a few times. (For me a sure sign that the yeasties are invading.)

Honestly though I find that the juice keeps me from crashing...I'm hypoglycemic, so without frequent fuel sources, my blood sugar plummets and I crash HARD. And I find it difficult enough to make my three meals a day with a 9 month old who refuses to be put down long enough for me to cook.

Does anyone have any practical advice or been there or...what do I do? I'm finding this to be all so difficult - more than once lately I've not eaten in enogh time and had horrible, horrible days - fighting with DH to the point of feeling like I want a divorce - crazy stuff.

I'm introducing new foods so slowly and also having such a hard time makig any progress with things I can eat - I mean what's good at all about zucchini that's been peeled and de-seeded? Sorry for my typos, my DS needs me...

There is still plenty good about veggies that are peeled and deseeded. Not as much fiber but plenty of minerals and vitamins. Don't give up!

Cut way back on the juice. I have always had huge blood sugar issues. The first couple of days of scd were terrible. I started taking some suppliments to detox my liver and felt almost immediatly better. Milk Thistle is scd legal and fine while nursing. Also be sure you are cutting back on the honey in recipes.

And try the coconut oil! It really sticks with you to give you long term energy, it is good for your gut, and gives you plenty of the really good fats for your bm as well. I can't beleive how much less I need to eat now that I am doing co before most meals. (I would say every but I just forget sometimes).


----------



## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Our local Whole Foods has refined and unrefined coconut oil. What is the difference?


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
There is still plenty good about veggies that are peeled and deseeded. Not as much fiber but plenty of minerals and vitamins. Don't give up!

Cut way back on the juice. I have always had huge blood sugar issues. The first couple of days of scd were terrible. I started taking some suppliments to detox my liver and felt almost immediatly better. Milk Thistle is scd legal and fine while nursing. Also be sure you are cutting back on the honey in recipes.

And try the coconut oil! It really sticks with you to give you long term energy, it is good for your gut, and gives you plenty of the really good fats for your bm as well. I can't beleive how much less I need to eat now that I am doing co before most meals. (I would say every but I just forget sometimes).

Milk Thistle, got it. Thanks so much!

I can do CO??? I'm all over it then, I didn't realize I can do it already.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Chasmyn, I don't know for sure, but I believe that avacado and peanut butter are ok? These are high in fats. Was cheese ok? (Slice a bunch and wrap it back up for quick snacks later.) Hard boiled eggs? (Peel a bunch in the morning for the day.) I just eat the peanut butter scooped on a spoon. The avacado I just slice in half and scoop on the go. That makes it fast. Cook meats in advance, and nibble. Deli meat? I cook salmon in one large filet and eat it off and on for a day or so. Canned meats, like chicken chunks with some lemon? Full fat yogurt? If you eat enough fat calories you won't be as hungry. Drinking plenty of water and using salt liberally helps too. When I feel dehydrated, I start feeling lightheaded.

Not sure what all of above is legal on SCD, but you can start there for ideas. This is how I survived the elimination diet and nursing a newborn. I needed high nutrition and high caloric foods which were quickly available. Ds never wanted to be put down either.

Pat


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_dalai_mama*
Our local Whole Foods has refined and unrefined coconut oil. What is the difference?

unrefined won't taste coconutty (dh thinks it still has a taste but I really can't tell) There is also the manner in which it was extracted and/or refined. I'm not really clear on all of that. I just got some tropical traditions unrefined co. I got a gallon and it was approx $.50 an ounce. It isn't cheap but IMO totally worth it. Also they run specials all the time so you might get it cheaper than that. It is pretty good but I don't like it straight from the jar like some of these ladies do. My dog however loves it. She has had digestive issues for years and now that I've started giving her co she won't eat her food unless it has some on it. Not sure if it is helping her issues but she is hooked.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Milk Thistle, got it. Thanks so much!

I can do CO??? I'm all over it then, I didn't realize I can do it already.

Mountain Rose Herbs has the best price I've found for coconut oil--$35/gallon including shipping.

I also have major low blood sugar issues, and I've found that eating a lot of fat is key to avoiding low blood sugar. I also eat 4-5 mini meals (actually they're more like regular meals!) a day and that helps. Juice is bad bad bad for low blood sugar--it'll help you feel better for a bit but then you'll crash again from all the sugar in it.

Oh, and you want virgin or extra virgin coconut oil (same thing).


----------



## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
For those who've taken enzymes between meals: what did/do you take, and how often? How long did you take them between meals? I have Candidase and it says the intensive course is 2 caps 3x day for 14 days (1 bottle worth). Would that be enough along with my other yeast-killing things (raw garlic and hopefully goat yogurt)? And if I need to continue taking them in between meals, can I do a reduced dosage?

I was taking Candidase plus virastop 3 or 4 times a day for 3 weeks, I only take them once a day now (mainly because of the budget







) It did really help, but I am far from being done. If I could afford to, I would go back to full force for at least another month. Probably 2 months. I also saw my improvement get a lot quicker with raw garlic.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Whoa! I got my Natural Calm today and took 3 tsp. a couple of hours ago and I feel like I'm drunk!







I can totally see how this stuff will *calm* you. I was going to take another 3 tsp. to get my 1200 like MT suggests on the Nutrition/Immunology thread. Guess I'll wait another time to do that.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Ok, how do I know if my goat yogurt turned out? I made 2 batches of goat yogurt--the first batch I used yogourmet powdered starter, and although it is quite thin, it smells yogurty...does it sound like it worked? With the second batch I used 1/4 cup of the first batch for a starter, and this batch is also thin, but it has bubbles at the top and doesn't smell yogurty, so I wonder if it just soured, which makes me wonder if the first batch is any good or not if it didn't culture another batch??? I had them in a salton yogurt maker for 24 hours and I think the temperature stays between 100 & 110 in there.


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## violin4 (May 20, 2006)

Hi,

I ordered the diet book and have been trying to get a handle on what you can eat to start this program. Assuming no yogurt at first because of milk allergies in bf babe...Is it really just chk & beef, broth & carrots, gelatin and grape juice? I know I can't do juice because it sends my blood sugar plummiting and I know I can't do just meat because I get totally constipated (I need a few veggies too to avoid it). Any suggestions?

Also here's two other of my kids with problems I could use suggestions for:

DS3-age 14- Chronic constipation, massively flakey scalp, eczema, molluscum for over a year, attention problems (though not hyper), chunky, very picky eater, craves carbs. Doing any kind of diet with him would be very difficult. He's always had texture issues and huge issues over any diet or suppliment control. Did the spit test for yeast and came up negative for him.

DD (our one and only)- age 6- chronic constipation. Impossible to get to sleep at night. Hasn't gone to sleep well for over a year. Used to be a good sleeper. Huge dark circles under her eyes. Last few months huge mood issues. Very sweet in past. (could be new baby but maybe not?). More recent attention problems too. A little eczema at times (like right now). She spit tested positive for yeast. Not surprising considering she was born at 29 weeks weighing 1#10oz. Had bunches of antibiotics and steroids with a round of pneumonia at 10 days old.

Thanks for your suggestions!

Kara


----------



## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Ok, how do I know if my goat yogurt turned out? I made 2 batches of goat yogurt--the first batch I used yogourmet powdered starter, and although it is quite thin, it smells yogurty...does it sound like it worked? With the second batch I used 1/4 cup of the first batch for a starter, and this batch is also thin, but it has bubbles at the top and doesn't smell yogurty, so I wonder if it just soured, which makes me wonder if the first batch is any good or not if it didn't culture another batch??? I had them in a salton yogurt maker for 24 hours and I think the temperature stays between 100 & 110 in there.

I wouldn't worry about the first batch. Just store the second and when it sets up (if it hasn't already) taste it. The taste and texture will tell you. Trust me, if it's a bad batch you will know.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Mountain Rose Herbs has the best price I've found for coconut oil--$35/gallon including shipping.

I also have major low blood sugar issues, and I've found that eating a lot of fat is key to avoiding low blood sugar. I also eat 4-5 mini meals (actually they're more like regular meals!) a day and that helps. Juice is bad bad bad for low blood sugar--it'll help you feel better for a bit but then you'll crash again from all the sugar in it.

Oh, and you want virgin or extra virgin coconut oil (same thing).

This makes total sense! I always feel so much better after eating a beef patty than after eating chicken. I wondered why - both protein, shouldn't make a difference...but the beef has fat! Of course!









And I NEVER drank juice before SCD because of my blood sugar. Another







- I just followed with 'fanatical adherence' despite my hesitation about the juice. I'm going to cut WAY down on the juice and use stevia instead of honey. And add the CO back in!

Sadly, I had 2 Tbs of almond butter last night and today, loose stool







- I so want to add nut butter!

Is there any reason anyone can think of that the acne seems to be getting worse? (before the nut butter even)


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Chasmyn, just wanted to suggest you try cashew butter, or even homemade pecan butter (organic if you can afford it), because almond butter still gives ds the runs every time, even though he can handle other nut butters just fine. Almonds aren't really a true nut, anyway, they're the pit of a fruit. As far as the acne getting worse, I would think maybe the juice might do it, all that sugar stimulating your adrenals. But I'm not an expert by any means. Just cut down on the juices and see how that helps. Any chance you can switch to vegetable juice like tomato juice? Fresh pressed would be best, of course, but if you don't have access to a juicer, it can be hard to get and very expensive!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
This makes total sense! I always feel so much better after eating a beef patty than after eating chicken. I wondered why - both protein, shouldn't make a difference...but the beef has fat! Of course!









And I NEVER drank juice before SCD because of my blood sugar. Another







- I just followed with 'fanatical adherence' despite my hesitation about the juice. I'm going to cut WAY down on the juice and use stevia instead of honey. And add the CO back in!

Sadly, I had 2 Tbs of almond butter last night and today, loose stool







- I so want to add nut butter!

Is there any reason anyone can think of that the acne seems to be getting worse? (before the nut butter even)

I second the pecan butter (almond and pecan are supposed to be easiest to digest). As for honey, I've found I can use a couple of tablespoons a day and it doesn't seem to affect my blood sugar issues. Acne--it might be a die off reaction, since the skin is one of the first places where toxins are eliminated.

Well I ended up eating some of the first batch of goat yogurt...we'll see if DD reacts to the powdered milk in it or not. I tasted both batches--the first batch tasted like yogurt, not as sour as I'd expected though. The second batch wasn't as sour and I wanted a drink as soon as I ate a bite, so I figure it went bad. I'm not sure why.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
This makes total sense! I always feel so much better after eating a beef patty than after eating chicken. I wondered why - both protein, shouldn't make a difference...but the beef has fat! Of course!









And I NEVER drank juice before SCD because of my blood sugar. Another







- I just followed with 'fanatical adherence' despite my hesitation about the juice. I'm going to cut WAY down on the juice and use stevia instead of honey. And add the CO back in!

Sadly, I had 2 Tbs of almond butter last night and today, loose stool







- I so want to add nut butter!

Is there any reason anyone can think of that the acne seems to be getting worse? (before the nut butter even)

My acne had a really bad flare up _the day before_ it got better - so bad that I cried that it "wasn't working", and my husband had to aggressively stop me from going to the mall to buy Proactive again. I've also found that the SCD stages are organized much differently than what I have reactions to - there is stuff in stage 4 and 5 that I can eat no problem, whereas stuff in stage 2 will give me problems (_apparently_ winter squash, and still trying to determine the nut butter thing)It's so frustrating for us, when it takes 3-4 days for us to have a "reaction"







Is your acne more cystic, or more surface/whitehead? I've started to hit a balance where I know that I can do all pure meats, fish, eggs, veggies and fruits, but I suspect that anything remotely starchy (like winter squash), nut butter and possibly dry white wine and coconut oil are no-goes. All of these things I introduced within 1 week (one each day) so now I'm not positive what I reacted poorly to. I'm starting to introduce new foods only once every 3-4 days or so, makes it easier than backtracking so hugely. CO made some of the mamas here break out, but I've continued to use that consistently and I _think_ I've ruled it out as the irritant


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
For those who've taken enzymes between meals: what did/do you take, and how often? How long did you take them between meals? I have Candidase and it says the intensive course is 2 caps 3x day for 14 days (1 bottle worth). Would that be enough along with my other yeast-killing things (raw garlic and hopefully goat yogurt)? And if I need to continue taking them in between meals, can I do a reduced dosage?

I just finished a 7-day course of Candidase. I didn't buy the 84 pills because it's so expensive; I wanted to see if it works, first. well it didn't do anything for my candida issues. It did give my bf dd a rash which might be a virus kill-off as Jane suggested. It makes sense because my other dd who is not bf was sick all week with a nasty flu/cold thing but my bf dd didn't get sick, so I think the enzymes were killing off the virus that gave her a rash. I don't know why it didn't work on my yeast issues







(No die-off or any improvement) So I'm not going to continue. I decided to try a different enzyme formula later after her rash is gone, or maybe saccharomyces bouldarii, I hear it works on yeast?


----------



## violin4 (May 20, 2006)

Annikate- I know I'm probablly missing something obvious but where do I find your blog?

Kara


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
I have an SCD/yeasties question:

So if one is prone to the yeasties, what does one do on SCD? Just skip the juices and fruits? And then when in the first stages if skipping juices and fruits, does one eat more frequently so that one doesn't crash?

I'm a wee bit into Stage 2 and am finding that all of that fruit juice and fruit juice gelatin is making the yeasties go a bit crazy - last night my ears were so itchy it actually kept me awake - woke me up a few times. (For me a sure sign that the yeasties are invading.)

Honestly though I find that the juice keeps me from crashing...I'm hypoglycemic, so without frequent fuel sources, my blood sugar plummets and I crash HARD. And I find it difficult enough to make my three meals a day with a 9 month old who refuses to be put down long enough for me to cook.

Does anyone have any practical advice or been there or...what do I do? I'm finding this to be all so difficult - more than once lately I've not eaten in enogh time and had horrible, horrible days - fighting with DH to the point of feeling like I want a divorce - crazy stuff.

I'm introducing new foods so slowly and also having such a hard time makig any progress with things I can eat - I mean what's good at all about zucchini that's been peeled and de-seeded? Sorry for my typos, my DS needs me...


My ears get itcy too when I feed the yeast. I don't do the juices, nor the honey and very minimal fruit.
Since I don't do fruit juice and still want my jello, I make it with coconut milk and stevia. I know stevia is not legal but not because of the gut.
I'm also finding it hard to get rid of the yeast on SCD even with fruit restriction and enzymes. I'm at a loss because I can't take harsh herbs and I've been eating SCD yogurt, CO and garlic like crazy for months. I don't know what else to try.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
This makes total sense! I always feel so much better after eating a beef patty than after eating chicken. I wondered why - both protein, shouldn't make a difference...but the beef has fat! Of course!









And I NEVER drank juice before SCD because of my blood sugar. Another







- I just followed with 'fanatical adherence' despite my hesitation about the juice. I'm going to cut WAY down on the juice and use stevia instead of honey. And add the CO back in!

Sadly, I had 2 Tbs of almond butter last night and today, loose stool







- I so want to add nut butter!

Is there any reason anyone can think of that the acne seems to be getting worse? (before the nut butter even)

Be careful with nut butters and nuts. They can throw off your omega balance. NT says macademias have the perfect ratio, so try them. You can buy mac nut butter on Netrition.com. Or do your NT thing. I know nuts will aggrevate acne, I get pimples from them, and also from too much CO. What I do is that whenever I eat nuts/butter I take an extra spoonful of CLO. You can take flax oil if you tolerate it.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Where can you get Bernard Jensen gelatin outside radiant life catalog? Also, is the NOW brand gelatin powder any good, or should I just stick to what is certain?


----------



## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

I am going to be joining you with the SCD starting june 1. We have noticed that dd2 who is almost 7 months has really mucusy stools when she eats baby food. I noticed in the super baby food book that she says that can be a sign of not digesting the food properly. She has done bananas, avacados, and sweet potatoes. She loves eating baby food (although its only 1 tablespoon daily) Do you agree that I should hold off on them and just do BM until we get our guts healed? Can I give her the 24 hr yogurt now that she is 7 months to give her some good bacterias?


----------



## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Just working through this month's thread, but I wanted to link you all to my post from last September wrt EFLF Healthy Recovery http://www.mothering.com/discussions...8&postcount=72

Quote:

Update on us: Well, first of all, I haven't had the chance to read through the thread yet, but I hope to be able to soon. Just wanted to let you all know how the Healthy Recovery diet from Eat Fat Lose Fat went.
First of all, it was wonderful not having to think about what I was going to make every night for supper! But more than that, we've noticed some definite improvement - of course, dd's also under homeopathic care and I've been going for Body Talk sessions, so that might be related. The very first thing I noticed is that on the plan, dd wasn't constantly after me for food all day. She ate three meals and two or three snacks and that was enough. Her mood significantly improved. Towards the end of the plan, her poop started to take on a better consistency, and I could tell she was digesting her food a lot better. Pretty much everything I've said for her goes for me too.
Unfortunately, we had a houseguest the week after doing the plan, and wound up eating restaurant food for a week, then we caught colds and while we're better now, our meals are just getting back up to standard. Even with that, however, dd's still digesting things better than she did before the plan.
So, in case you're interested, the basic principles are: high fat meals, increased dosages of cod liver oil, rose hip tea (they actually suggest acerola powder for vit C, but I can't get it here, so I subbed rose hip tea), all grains soaked-only sourdough bread, soaked crackers or rice crackers actually appeared on the plan, and only about 2 servings/day of the grains, all veggies cooked (except one day had a baby lettuce salad with high-fat dressing for easier digestion), lots of bone broths (for minerals - they're very easy to digest), organ meats and fish, and the biggest one - lactofermented veggies or drinks at every meal impart digestive enzymes and bacteria to help digest meals.
Anyway, the plan is to jump right back on the wagon, I just have to get my butt in gear and plan some meals here
For a number of reasons (mostly crazy pregnancy donut cravings) we never really got back to it . . . but we're getting our new house Friday and I hope to start a plan shortly after we move in.
We went gluten free over the weekend, and that alone seemed to make a difference in dd's behaviour. We had wheat at supper last nigh and there was a noticable difference.


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

H2O2 breaks down into water and oxygen - for those who were wondering (2H2O2---->2H2O + O2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

I've finally finished reading the thread, and there sure is a lot to "digest" (







)

One thing that really doesn't resonate with me is the idea of taking so many supplements . . . I think I'll have to reread Fourfold Path to Healing, NT, BTVC, EFLF and Garden of Eating and come up with a gameplan based on all of those. Right now dd's sleeping problems, hyperactivity, loose stools, yeast rash and brand new yeast infection are my top priority. My own issues are fatigue, depression, abdominal pain, loose stools, major irritablity and numbness of my baby toe.
Off to read some books!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Aha, it was you HerthElde! I thought I remembered someone doing HR from EFLF.

But geez I got sick of coconut milk/oil real fast, I never got fully on the program, but have tried to just up CO and bone broths plus kefir/kombucha. I recently went back on grains.

The kombucha is fabulous, I'm totally loving it.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *memory maker*
I am going to be joining you with the SCD starting june 1. We have noticed that dd2 who is almost 7 months has really mucusy stools when she eats baby food. I noticed in the super baby food book that she says that can be a sign of not digesting the food properly. She has done bananas, avacados, and sweet potatoes. She loves eating baby food (although its only 1 tablespoon daily) Do you agree that I should hold off on them and just do BM until we get our guts healed? Can I give her the 24 hr yogurt now that she is 7 months to give her some good bacterias?

I wouldn't give her dairy until after a year if you suspect gut issues. Do her stools go back to normal with ebf? Do that until they do and then if you stick with SCD legal solids for her, she will have a better chance of digesting them: bananas with black spots, avocados are good, no sweet potatoes, try butternut squash. Go really slowly, wait several days b/f introducing a food.

Upping your probiotics will pass thru your BM to her.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Where can you get Bernard Jensen gelatin outside radiant life catalog? Also, is the NOW brand gelatin powder any good, or should I just stick to what is certain?

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/e...jsp?id=BJ-1024


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *violin4*
I ordered the diet book and have been trying to get a handle on what you can eat to start this program. Assuming no yogurt at first because of milk allergies in bf babe...Is it really just chk & beef, broth & carrots, gelatin and grape juice? I know I can't do juice because it sends my blood sugar plummiting and I know I can't do just meat because I get totally constipated (I need a few veggies too to avoid it). Any suggestions?

Also here's two other of my kids with problems I could use suggestions for:

The gelatin in the juice will slow down absorption, give it a try b/c that and the carrots will be the only carbs you have. It's only for a few days.

Try goat's milk, my DS is really sensitive to cow's and does fine on goat.

For your kids, you can start with a high vitamin CLO and 24 hr. yogurt smoothies. What do they usually eat? Cut sugar/white flour/processed food, etc. Constipation is an intestinal flora issue too. You might want to check out making water kefir sodas too for alternative forms of probiotics for them, link in Cheat Sheet.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_dalai_mama*
Our local Whole Foods has refined and unrefined coconut oil. What is the difference?

Spectrum is









Nutiva or Garden of Life is good, the former is cheaper.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
For those who've taken enzymes between meals: what did/do you take, and how often? How long did you take them between meals? I have Candidase and it says the intensive course is 2 caps 3x day for 14 days (1 bottle worth). Would that be enough along with my other yeast-killing things (raw garlic and hopefully goat yogurt)? And if I need to continue taking them in between meals, can I do a reduced dosage?

How much is Candidase? I used No Fenol and Peptizyde from Houston between meals, I don't know if they are comparable or what. But Pept. is really strong I can tell you that.


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## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

OK I'm confused about diets. I started doing Kefier, 0 carbs, raw nuts , ect. per some sites on diets I found. Now I'm finding I shouldent do ANY dairy no matter what but can do some fruits blah blah. This is for candidaisis. Can any lead me to sites that are not confusing?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *p1gg1e*
Hi Ive been lerking off and on for a while.

I've had candida overgrowth in my tummy scince Nov. but the antibiotics I had with the brith of my daughter got me here in the forst place.

I've eliminated yeast, wheat,gluten , caffine, ect from my diet and am working with a MND in town.

My biigest frustration is that I'm still nursing and it keeps me from taking alot of herbs. Ive been takeing an acidophious with 15 strains for months now a t high doses, its called Iflora. any take it before? know of anything better?

All was intersted in info on Raw Milk.











See info on where to find raw milk here:
www.realmilk.com

Homemade yogurt cultured for 24 hrs. is way way stronger than capsules.
http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/co...onspiracy.html

Also can try kefir, kombucha, sauerkraut for other food sources of probiotics, again these are stronger than capsules and more likely to colonize gut IME.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Speaking of Sacc. boulardii, that is in Kombucha tea.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
This might be a silly question, but how many times a day do you all eat yogurt? Can too much be a bad thing?

I think Elaine said a certain amount, maybe 2 cups, but personally I think it's individually based. If you like it and don't see any reactions, go for it.

Edit: whoops, sorry she said 3 cups
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...urt_amount.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie*
Am I kidding myself that this scalp is *not* yeast related?









Maybe it's that the chlorine in the water is more ... and killing the beneficial bacteria on surface of scalp exacerbates the problem.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
If I see little bits of undigested nuts in my stool when I eat almond flour, should I assume I'm probably not digesting raspberries (cooked) properly, either? And is it actually doing damage if I'm not digesting the nuts right? Actually I'm trying to eat almond butter but my Vita Mix doesn't do all that great of a job of making almond butter, so there's still little bits in there.

I could have sworn Elaine said this was okay related to nuts b/c they are fibrous and would not be fermenting in the gut. Otherwise, other things can ferment, like veggies/fruits etc. if their cell walls are not broken down properly by digestion (why you should wait on things like dried fruit) and you should not see things like those b/c they WILL harm you by continuing to feed bad gut bugs.


----------



## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

From Thomas Cowan's Fourfold Path to Healing
To summarize 3 paragraphs in 100 words or less:

Quote:

...intestinal microorganisms help digest . . . and are nourished by our food . . . synthesize vitamins, especially B vitamins . . . It is not fiber but dead microorganisms that supply the bulk of our stools, without which we would suffer from painful constipation.
[Studying African tribes with good digestive health, British physician Dennis Burkett reached the conclusion] that the good health these people acheived was [the] result of the high fiber content of their diet.
[However, other groups] like the Masai, eat a low fiber diet and still have excellent intestinal health. The common thread . . . is that they consumed large amounts of lacto-fermented foods . . .


----------



## p1gg1e (Apr 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*









Also can try kefir, kombucha, sauerkraut for other food sources of probiotics, again these are stronger than capsules and more likely to colonize gut IME.

I've read it say to stay away from fermented food adn all dairy even raw. eat raw nuts and dont. sigh i'm just









LOL I'm seeing an ND today hopfully she will help me find a good path... I'm takeing keifer and love it. Its not raw though I havent gotten an outlet for raw milk yet


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
Where can you get Bernard Jensen gelatin outside radiant life catalog? Also, is the NOW brand gelatin powder any good, or should I just stick to what is certain?

But can I make gelatin out of either of these two?


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

It is gelatin... yes you can use to make "jello" or that type of thing with fruit juice. One teaspoon per cup of liquid. DS and I just made Panna Cotta for him this weekend with yogurt.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

HerthElde, I just read this section in Fourfold Path last night!!


----------



## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







HerthElde, I just read this section in Fourfold Path last night!!









Great minds think alike!


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Chasmyn, just wanted to suggest you try cashew butter, or even homemade pecan butter (organic if you can afford it), because almond butter still gives ds the runs every time, even though he can handle other nut butters just fine. Almonds aren't really a true nut, anyway, they're the pit of a fruit. As far as the acne getting worse, I would think maybe the juice might do it, all that sugar stimulating your adrenals. But I'm not an expert by any means. Just cut down on the juices and see how that helps. Any chance you can switch to vegetable juice like tomato juice? Fresh pressed would be best, of course, but if you don't have access to a juicer, it can be hard to get and very expensive!

Hm. I don't think I can have tomato yet, and no raw stuff yet...but I DO have a juicer









Thanks for the tip about almond butter! I will happily try cashew butter and pecan butter. I SO want to do nut butter! I can make bread! And cake! Hee.

Maybe once I get to whichever phase I can have tomato in I can make the juice. Good idea


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I second the pecan butter (almond and pecan are supposed to be easiest to digest). As for honey, I've found I can use a couple of tablespoons a day and it doesn't seem to affect my blood sugar issues. Acne--it might be a die off reaction, since the skin is one of the first places where toxins are eliminated.

It's always difficult for me to tell what I am reacting to and what is die-off. Lately I've just not been looking at the acne and using my stool as the test. But then, there can be different and confusing results there, too. At least with the green beans I got a stomach ache = the rest is so much more subtle.

I keep wondering if the butter or eggs are causing the acne, and should I get rid of them. But eggs are such a staple - I hesitate to give up either. The butter is such a good fat! And I need the fats to keep my blood sugar level.

Sometimes it's like walking a toghtrope blindfolded


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
I've also found that the SCD stages are organized much differently than what I have reactions to - there is stuff in stage 4 and 5 that I can eat no problem, whereas stuff in stage 2 will give me problems (_apparently_ winter squash, and still trying to determine the nut butter thing)It's so frustrating for us, when it takes 3-4 days for us to have a "reaction"







Is your acne more cystic, or more surface/whitehead? I've started to hit a balance where I know that I can do all pure meats, fish, eggs, veggies and fruits, but I suspect that anything remotely starchy (like winter squash), nut butter and possibly dry white wine and coconut oil are no-goes. All of these things I introduced within 1 week (one each day) so now I'm not positive what I reacted poorly to. I'm starting to introduce new foods only once every 3-4 days or so, makes it easier than backtracking so hugely. CO made some of the mamas here break out, but I've continued to use that consistently and I _think_ I've ruled it out as the irritant









Yes! The stages seem weird to me, too. I have that same experience.

My acne is more surface - looks almost like a red rash on my face. AND I have rosacea. "She always has such rosy cheeks!"

I'll keep that in mind. I've been introducing foods fairly slowly, too, so I'll keep doing that.


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I know stevia is not legal but not because of the gut.

It isn't? Gah! I thought I read that it was. Why isn't it? I thought because it isn't a sugar that it's okay?


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Those of you who use Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotics who are doing SCD -- why do you use it if it isn't legal?

Just wondering because this keeps getting recommended and it's cheap (relatively) on Amazon, so I'd like to order it, but don't know if I should if I'm doing SCD.


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
It is gelatin... yes you can use to make "jello" or that type of thing with fruit juice. One teaspoon per cup of liquid. DS and I just made Panna Cotta for him this weekend with yogurt.

Duh! Yes, jello is what i meant


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I tried out primal defense and it did not agree with me. But then neither does the enzymes right now so who knows.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
How much is Candidase? I used No Fenol and Peptizyde from Houston between meals, I don't know if they are comparable or what. But Pept. is really strong I can tell you that.

18-24 bucks for 42 (7 day) and 34-48 for 84. Depends on the store. So No Fenol is actually not too bad but you need peptizyde with it, so....I don't know. I think I'll try that nexty time since people seem to have success with it.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

As far as I know, stevia is SCD legal.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
It isn't? Gah! I thought I read that it was. Why isn't it? I thought because it isn't a sugar that it's okay?

http://breakingtheviciouscycle.info/.../kb/stevia.htm

I use it anyway, but sparingly, of course.


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Those of you who use Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotics who are doing SCD -- why do you use it if it isn't legal?

Just wondering because this keeps getting recommended and it's cheap (relatively) on Amazon, so I'd like to order it, but don't know if I should if I'm doing SCD.

I think it's illegal because of the bacterial strains that were not studied by Elaine. She decided to stick with obly acidophilus plus the yogurt guys. here's the ingredients to Primal defense:
http://www.vitabase.com/primaldefenseingredients.asp

see, some bacteria have not been studied enough to say they are safe but a lot of people seem to have success with them. E. said that bacteria can mutate and it is not known what they are capable of.
The plant ingredients are pre-digested so they're not an issue.


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Those of you who use Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotics who are doing SCD -- why do you use it if it isn't legal?

Just wondering because this keeps getting recommended and it's cheap (relatively) on Amazon, so I'd like to order it, but don't know if I should if I'm doing SCD.

I used it because I started it before I started doing the SCD and I wasn't going to waste a $30 bottle of probiotics







I didn't have any problems with it but I don't think it did anything for me, either


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Oops - just got some stevia. I thought I saw it in a couple of SCD recipes!


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Hoping for some advice....
I'm in the process of interviewing a naturopath for some guidance with the health issues that I'm dealing with - I found her on the local WAPF site. She's very big on Juice Plus, a whole foods fruits and vegetables supplement. I'm feeling a little skittish about a health practicioner being so focused on one (multi-level marketing) product. Anyone have any comments or experience about this product specifically, or in general about practicioners that recommend a product like this? My gut feeling is that there's something not quite right, but I also don't want to limit healing just based on my pre-concieve allopathic biases (which is the whole reason why I called her in the first place). TIA, I'm totally not in Kansas anymore.


----------



## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

do a quick search on juice plus here. I know there was just a long thread.
And I wouldn't be too into a practitioner that was a salesperson (basically)


----------



## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Yes, stevia isn't legal because it's a steriod. Only saccharine and honey are legal on SCD.


----------



## violin4 (May 20, 2006)

I want to go shopping and get started before I receive the book. I just want to double check a couple of things.

Can I buy regular ground beef and chicken as long as there are no additives?

Is it OK to use knox gellatin?

Thanks,

Kara


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Yes, stevia isn't legal because it's a steriod. Only saccharine and honey are legal on SCD.
A steroid!? Yikes!

Anybody know if this is why I reacted so strangely to the Natural Calm magnesium? (It's flavored w/stevia.)


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *violin4*
I want to go shopping and get started before I receive the book. I just want to double check a couple of things.

Can I buy regular ground beef and chicken as long as there are no additives?

Is it OK to use knox gellatin?

Thanks,

Kara
Yes, knox is fine. Regular ground beef and chicken are fine too. It seems the meats that I have most trouble finding without a bunch of junk in them is ham and turkey. And I've really been having a turkey craving lately!


----------



## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

So it is. From Elaine's site:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i.../kb/stevia.htm

So back to honey.


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Anybody want to buy a jar of Natural Calm flavored mag? (minus 3 tsp.)


----------



## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Annikate,

what didn't you like about the natural calm?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Yes, stevia isn't legal because it's a steriod. Only saccharine and honey are legal on SCD.

I'm pretty certain it says it resembles a steroid, not that it is a steroid. I still use it


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Stevia is still very natural...I don't use it because I don't like the taste but it isn't harmful like aspartame or splenda. Who different ball game. I don't use flavored NaturalCalm, but magnesium in and of itself is REALLY relaxing. My dh joked for awhile that it made him feel tipsy until his body balanced out. It is very nourishing and relaxing to the muscles. If you reacted that strongly I would definitely keep it up. Also, you are supposed to work up to the recommended dose. I believe the package tells you to start at one tsp and work up to three.


----------



## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Well, it's official.







: Dh, ds (5yo), and I did the spit test this morning and we all have yeast overgrowth. I'm going to take baby steps until after we move however, just so I don't burn out and throw the towel in. Does the length of the string and the time it takes for them to form indicate anything? Mine were short and slow to form, ds's were really long and super fast and dh was somewhere in the middle.
We already drink a lot of kombucha and a comercially prepared kefir, and the kids take a modrately spendy powered probiotic, which I guess is useless. I'm going to up the start my own kefir and komucha (as soon as I get a scoby), and look for some water grains. the rest of the diet will have to wait until the move is done.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
Annikate,

what didn't you like about the natural calm?

I want to know too, as ours is on the way and I have such high hopes!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Stevia is still very natural...I don't use it because I don't like the taste but it isn't harmful like aspartame or splenda. Who different ball game. I don't use flavored NaturalCalm, but magnesium in and of itself is REALLY relaxing. My dh joked for awhile that it made him feel tipsy until his body balanced out. It is very nourishing and relaxing to the muscles. If you reacted that strongly I would definitely keep it up. Also, you are supposed to work up to the recommended dose. I believe the package tells you to start at one tsp and work up to three.
Yeah, I tried the 3 tsp. 'cause I had been taking mag in capsule form for a long time. I suspected the capsules were not doing much for me. Guess I was right.

I ordered some regular NC today just to see if it was the mag or the stevia that I reacted to. Probably the mag - - wow! I must've really been deficient!


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I actually DO like the Natural Calm but when I found out about the stevia I decided not to use it anymore. I should have done some reading before ordering but I was so anxious to try it to see if helped dd2 sleep better. I ordered some unflavored NC today though.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Hoping for some advice....
I'm in the process of interviewing a naturopath for some guidance with the health issues that I'm dealing with - I found her on the local WAPF site. She's very big on Juice Plus, a whole foods fruits and vegetables supplement. I'm feeling a little skittish about a health practicioner being so focused on one (multi-level marketing) product. Anyone have any comments or experience about this product specifically, or in general about practicioners that recommend a product like this? My gut feeling is that there's something not quite right, but I also don't want to limit healing just based on my pre-concieve allopathic biases (which is the whole reason why I called her in the first place). TIA, I'm totally not in Kansas anymore.

Especially strange that a WAPF member would push supplements. WAPF is all about food first and then natural supplements only. I've never seen them recommend Juice Plus.


----------



## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

definitely seeing a reaction to the wobenzymes i've been taking... i'm so glad enzymes dont' make my 8mo ebf ds hyper. after about a week on the wobenymes, ds had a few spit ups and a some diarrhea (sp?) for a couple days, but now that it's over he has been waking up only once a night to nurse for the past 3 nights! before he was an every 3 hours around the clock eater. the first week on wobenzymes he woke up twice as much - though not because of wanting to eat but because he was SO hot and sweaty, which i thought was because the weather heating up but now the temp is the same but he's ok - it was so tiring, makes me really feel for you mama's that have babes who wake up every hour or so all night! he also seems to have switched to eating every 4 hours instead of 3 during the day too.

fingers crossed that there was some good healing going on, and that my baby is on his way to perfect health! (funny that i now think of him as sick, when i considered him perticularly healthy for months -his only problem was an allergic reaction to milk consumed by me) i've been feeling some intestanal rumblings too as those yeasties sing their death shanty...


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vaquitita*
i've been feeling some intestanal rumblings too as those yeasties sing their death shanty...









:


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Tell me about these wobenzymes

Where do you get them? What are they? I googled real quick and am not finding much.

I have discovered two things with enzymes. I can handle 1/4 a capsul of zyme prime right now. And Beet Kvass makes my tummy feel much better. It is so strange because for a at least a month I was tolerating 2 digest golds with every meal and one with every snack w/o any issues at all. Sigh. This just isn't easy to figure out.

Oh and I think my yeast flare up could be death throes. I forgot that it majorly flared when I first started the diet. My itchy ears, nips and nether regions aren't much fun but hopefully they are because this CO is doing something, not a bad sign like i was first thinking.


----------



## Peri Patetic (Feb 16, 2006)

Hi mamas,

I lurk here and have posted a couple of times...we think my DS (9) is showing signs of asthma and allergies...I am going to take him to my doc (nutritionist/chiro and WAPF chapter leader) soon but in the meantime am reading up on healing a leaky gut, as I'm sure he's got one.

Anyway, I'm wanting to try enzymes for him...based on what I read at Karen DeFelice's site, I ordered some Mucostop, but I looked at the bottle and it says "do not remove contents from capsule." I was planning to mix the enzymes with food and start with less than a capsule, but I'm not sure now. My bottle of Digest Gold doesn't have a statement like this. Does anyone know why they would say that with this particular one or whether I can do it anyway?

TIA!


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Wobenzyme is a very strong multiple protease...so you aren't getting all the enzymes but it is pretty darn effective.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

So I also googled Wobenzymes. From a quick read, it sounds good, but took many sites until I could find one that sold them. Then I found this one and was blown away by the price!!! Then I saw that was the price for 800.







But they also sell it in 200.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

What are your thoughts on the chewable enzymes from Houstons. Could the benefit outweigh the illegals? I gave up on trying to get enzymes into dd a few months ago but as long as these taste decent I know she would happily eat them before every single meal. I just want for her (and us) to be better. I guess really I just need to try them out...


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
So I also googled Wobenzymes. From a quick read, it sounds good, but took many sites until I could find one that sold them. Then I found this one and was blown away by the price!!! Then I saw that was the price for 800.







But they also sell it in 200.









You might want to get them at vitacost.com instead--they're significantly cheaper there (like 2/3 of the price!).


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

we use them. I kind of figured that whatever was in the enzymes was being broken down by the enzymes-I just always took zyme prime with them. Zyme Prime breaks down sugars-so even between meals I took all three if doing the chewables. I initially got them for on the road usage, but we converted full time.


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok I ordered them.

I also wanted to mention that the hustons magnesium is good. Legal and I tolerate it well, even in high doses. Not so much the fizz stuff. It is a pill though so it won't go into a little one easily and each pill is just 100 mg so if you are trying to get the 1200 mg recomended by mt on the other thread that is 12 pills to swallow.

That said, after taking 5 with lunch today I napped quite well.


----------



## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Thank you, caedmyn, you just saved me a bunch of money. So I just went ahead and got them. Figured I can keep waiting and trying to figure out this stuff to see what is best for me, or I can just try something.

Pattlya, I see you got some too. We can compare notes.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

I'm on day eight of doing SCD, and I woke up again this morning feeling very weak and light-headed. I've moved onto eating cheese, and I had thought that eating a decent amount of that would help with the weakness. (To recap, I'm normally vegan...so I've done some fish on this diet and lots of eggs and now cheese...but can't bring myself to do anything beyond that.)

I just really don't feel good on this diet. Do I just need to stick it out? Or could I be low in iron? Or is there something I else I could be doing?

It seems like my son is doing better (rashy pimples on cheeks and upper arms seem to be clearing up, and he seems to be spitting up a lot less) but I'm not sure that my skin (which is one of the major reasons I started SCD) is a whole lot better. Definitely not worse, but not majorly better, I don't think.

Any thoughts/ideas?


----------



## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I'm on day eight of doing SCD, and I woke up again this morning feeling very weak and light-headed. I've moved onto eating cheese, and I had thought that eating a decent amount of that would help with the weakness. (To recap, I'm normally vegan...so I've done some fish on this diet and lots of eggs and now cheese...but can't bring myself to do anything beyond that.)

I just really don't feel good on this diet. Do I just need to stick it out? Or could I be low in iron? Or is there something I else I could be doing?

It seems like my son is doing better (rashy pimples on cheeks and upper arms seem to be clearing up, and he seems to be spitting up a lot less) but I'm not sure that my skin (which is one of the major reasons I started SCD) is a whole lot better. Definitely not worse, but not majorly better, I don't think.

Any thoughts/ideas?

It could be die off if you aren't feeling well. I didn't feel too good for the first couple of weeks, although I think it was because I just wasn't eating enough and was losing some weight I didn't have to lose. Are you eating a lot of fat? That really seems to help me feel better throughout the day.

As far as the acne goes, for me it always take at least a couple of weeks if I try something new before I see positive results. I know, it's hard to be patient on this


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Ok I ordered them.

I also wanted to mention that the hustons magnesium is good. Legal and I tolerate it well, even in high doses. Not so much the fizz stuff. It is a pill though so it won't go into a little one easily and each pill is just 100 mg so if you are trying to get the 1200 mg recomended by mt on the other thread that is 12 pills to swallow.

That said, after taking 5 with lunch today I napped quite well.









You might be careful with taking all of it at once, a huge dose can be too much. This link seems informative and objective: http://www.krispin.com/magnes.html It appears that one should divide the dose, no more than 300mg a dose, and no later than 5pm.

Pat


----------



## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Okay, so I did the spit test. Yeast. Definitely a yeast problem. Of course, I knew that.

So if enzymes are proteins that act as catalysts, is it not possible that overdoing enzymes could contribute to further gut damage? Anyone done any research in that area?


----------



## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Hey Mamas









I saw this thread on MDC, and wanted to discuss our experiences w/food & children and setting limits. I didn't want to post on that thread as my experiences are vastly different (TED and now SCD).

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=454111

Thoughts?

Oh, and I hope I'm not violating the UA, I'm not bashing the thread or anything, just using it as a springboard for a conversation for us.


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
Any thoughts/ideas?

New Mama, It sounds like you probably are dehydrated or have a low blood pressure. Are you eating salt liberally? Eat lots, unless you have high blood pressure. I am assuming that you don't. And drink at least 8 full glasses of liquid, preferably water every day. (Enough so that you are peeing like you are pregnant.







) Also, are you getting enough potassium? This is tricky and very important if you are having loose stools. Weakness and muscle tiredness is associated with low potassium, especially if you are lifting and carrying a heavy baby all day. Use of large muscle groups depletes potassium. As you add sodium you also need to add potassium. Magnesium can make blood pressure low in large quantities. But, magnesium is important. Are you eating foods high in magnesium? It is all interconnected.

Just be cautious with supplements and know how they effect each other and how to notice signs of too much/too little.

Pat


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
New Mama, It sounds like you probably are dehydrated or have a low blood pressure. Are you eating salt liberally? Eat lots, unless you have high blood pressure. I am assuming that you don't. And drink at least 8 full glasses of liquid, preferably water every day. (Enough so that you are peeing like you are pregnant.







) Also, are you getting enough potassium? This is tricky and very important if you are having loose stools. Weakness and muscle tiredness is associated with low potassium, especially if you are lifting and carrying a heavy baby all day. Use of large muscle groups depletes potassium. As you add sodium you also need to add potassium. Magnesium can make blood pressure low in large quantities. But, magnesium is important. Are you eating foods high in magnesium? It is all interconnected.

Just be cautious with supplements and know how they effect each other and how to notice signs of too much/too little.

Pat

I _do_ have very low blood sugar.

Do you think I''m getting enough potassium if I'm eating a few bananas each day? FWIW I'm almost constipated...and I never had any problems in this area before starting this diet.

I just started a magnesium supplement -- what foods are high in magnesium?

Thanks!


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

strawberries and mushrooms are higher in poatssium than bananas if I remember correctly. Magnesium-nuts are a great source!

I felt awful for about a week on the diet. Mine started almost immediately, and some people have it start later. I would stick it out at this point for sure. Try adding more fat, it may help, it may not.


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
strawberries and mushrooms are higher in poatssium than bananas if I remember correctly. Magnesium-nuts are a great source!

I felt awful for about a week on the diet. Mine started almost immediately, and some people have it start later. I would stick it out at this point for sure. Try adding more fat, it may help, it may not.

Thanks for the encouragement -- I had a horrible incident of hot flashes and weakness one day after starting the diet, then I've just felt kind of weak and light-headed off and on, and then this morning again I felt just awful.

I bought some cashew butter and have already this morning had a few spoonfuls. I was thinking I'd stay away from nuts for a while but maybe this is okay? I hope so, because I found I LOVE cashew butter! Better than almond butter or natural PB. Yum!

I also have my first batch of 24-hour yogurt cooking right now. Would it be okay to add blueberries to it -- maybe if I cooked them? (Not that I have the faintest idea how to cook fruit...and what do I do about the skins?)

I know I could do this diet if I could just get to the point of baking with nut flour, cooking with beans, and making smoothies.

And it doesn't help that there's half a HFS chocolate birthday cake in the fridge...


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I _do_ have very low blood sugar.

Do you think I''m getting enough potassium if I'm eating a few bananas each day? FWIW I'm almost constipated...and I never had any problems in this area before starting this diet.

I just started a magnesium supplement -- what foods are high in magnesium?

Thanks!

See post #514 for a link to foods high in Magnesium. It is on page 26.
See post #578 for a link to foods high in Potassium. It is on page 29.

See post #582 regarding a caution about using potassium supplements. It can cause heart irregualarities if too much at once is taken.

The "BRAT" diet causes constipation: bananas, rice, apples, toast. This is helpful when one has diarrhea. Drinking plenty of fluids will help decrease constipation too. And the Magnesium will probably "help", ie might *cause* diarrhea.

Low blood sugar and low blood pressure are different. Eating simple sugars in large amounts at one time could cause an insulin dump and the subsequent jittery, hungry, weak, lightheadedness of a low blood sugar level. Eating fats and proteins with the monosaccharides will help avoid the crash.

HTH, Pat


----------



## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Low blood sugar and low blood pressure are different.

I meant pressure, not sugar. Oops!


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I meant pressure, not sugar. Oops!

So do I, usually in the 77-85/50 range. I HAVE to eat salt on everything. Lots of it. And drink lots of water. This makes a big difference in how lightheaded I feel, especially moving from sitting or lying to standing.

Pat


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Thank you, caedmyn, you just saved me a bunch of money. So I just went ahead and got them. Figured I can keep waiting and trying to figure out this stuff to see what is best for me, or I can just try something.

Pattlya, I see you got some too. We can compare notes.









I got the houston's chewables. And I have renewed my resolve to get yeast fighting enzymes into me no matter how lousy it makes me feel. Two days of it and my yeast is improving already


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
You might be careful with taking all of it at once, a huge dose can be too much. This link seems informative and objective: http://www.krispin.com/magnes.html It appears that one should divide the dose, no more than 300mg a dose, and no later than 5pm.

Pat

I'm not finding that link...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Just did some reading on magnesium last night. Here's a good link:


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I'm not finding that link...









It worked for me a couple of times in a row. It must be YOU.









Pat


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I had to google it and then see the cached page? No idea why it wasn't working.

Of course now the toddler is up so I'll have to read it later.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HerthElde*
Okay, so I did the spit test. Yeast. Definitely a yeast problem. Of course, I knew that.

So if enzymes are proteins that act as catalysts, is it not possible that overdoing enzymes could contribute to further gut damage? Anyone done any research in that area?

Enzymes don't digest your gut lining. Somehow these guys know which proteins are for them. here's some reading:

http://enzymestuff.com/discussionsafety.htm


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Might I add to the list of enzyme questions? JaneS? Other enzyme vets?

I'm currently taking Betaine HCL With Pepsin and am looking at adding No-Fenol for the yeasties and because it seems like a good all-encompassing enzyme. Is this a good idea?

I'm doing SCD and am on Phase 2 - have successfully added cashew butter (and therefore Jane's cashew butter cake/bread! woohoo!). I'm still trying to be slow about adding new foods, so far so good I think.

But those yesties! I need to help them die. So are these two okay together? Should I wait until I finish one and then switch (I don't want to wait that long, I got the huge bottle of Betaine HCL and I want to help kill the yeasties NOW, especially since DS seems to also have itchy ears.)

So. Thoughts? Advice? Input?

I am so greatful for this thread and the experience of the Mamas here.


----------



## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Tell me about these wobenzymes

Where do you get them? What are they? I googled real quick and am not finding much.

I have discovered two things with enzymes. I can handle 1/4 a capsul of zyme prime right now. And Beet Kvass makes my tummy feel much better. It is so strange because for a at least a month I was tolerating 2 digest golds with every meal and one with every snack w/o any issues at all. Sigh. This just isn't easy to figure out.

Oh and I think my yeast flare up could be death throes. I forgot that it majorly flared when I first started the diet. My itchy ears, nips and nether regions aren't much fun but hopefully they are because this CO is doing something, not a bad sign like i was first thinking.

enzymestuff.com mentioned wobenzymes as all protease enzymes. since i was already taking a broad spectrum enzyme, i was looking for a high protease one at my local vitamin shoppe all they had was the wobenzymes. i think i paid $35 for 200 tablets.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Hey Mamas

I saw this thread on MDC, and wanted to discuss our experiences w/food & children and setting limits. I didn't want to post on that thread as my experiences are vastly different (TED and now SCD).

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=454111

Thoughts?

Oh, and I hope I'm not violating the UA, I'm not bashing the thread or anything, just using it as a springboard for a conversation for us.
I've only read the first 3 pages so far but I've actually been thinking a lot about this lately.

Even before SCD I did not allow dd any sugary stuff. (She has had about 3 or 4 ice cream cones pre-scd though.) I know moms from playgroup who give their toddlers lollipops, candy, ice cream, cake, etc... And every time MIL visits or we go there the family tries to give her sugary drinks, desserts, etc. They think I'm depriving her.







Even my pediatrician's office offers candy as we leave!

My dd doesn't even know the word candy or what it means.

I just tell dd that the stuff that she sees at the checkout line in the grocery store is bad for us and mommy's stuff is better. Now, she believes me.







I may be a bit idealistic here but I really think that if I tell my girls the truth about food that when they get bigger they'll be able to decide for themselves and make informed decisions. I've seen it work in many of my former elementary aged students. Kids brought up on the good stuff refused the junk. Really.

(I do not think kids aged 5 and 6 are able to self-regulate and I would never even try that.)

Mostly what I've been noticing lately though is just how many books, tv shows, dvds, & other kids media contain non-scd foods!


----------



## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I do not think kids aged 5 and 6 are able to self-regulate and I would never even try that.)


My son does. He has since he was about, well, always. Here is a thread with some discussion of this topic: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=454111

Pat


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Haven't read the thread Pat but wanted to say that I _do_ think that kids instinctively know how much/when to eat. However, I don't think that one can keep a houseful of junk and expect kids 5 & 6 yrs. old to regulate that.

I know some will have differing opinions though . . .

ETA: I actually have read some of this thread and this is what Amy put out there for discussion. This is the only reason I posted about it - - so we could discuss it here as it relates to gut healing.


----------



## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Quote:

Haven't read the thread Pat but wanted to say that I do think that kids instinctively know how much/when to eat. However, I don't think that one can keep a houseful of junk and expect kids 5 & 6 yrs. old to regulate that.
Yes, I agree. I let my 3 yr old regulate what he eats, but he never had candy and thinks the candy at the check out line is there for him to rearrange.







He like to snack on fruit or yogurt. Its the yoghurt I am trying to curb because (not knowing better) I bought StonyFarms Yo Baby yoghurt and he can a cup and a half. So, I mix half my homemade yoghurt with the YoBaby yoghurt and he loves it. But I my goal is to get him to 100% my yoghurt and he doesn't like it because its too sour. However, (I forget her name) the NT mama that has a recipe website gave a great suggestion for vanilla yoghurt.....vanilla extract and cinnamon (both SCD legal). I tried it and DS loves better sometimes than his.

Anyway, I do have some organic cookies in the house and his weekness is doughnuts but we don't regularly have them. He can have cookies whenever he wants, and in the beginning he ate alot of it but lately (in the last year) he doesn't want even if I offer it because I want one







:

As you can see I am not SCD 100%. I need to try things out, recipe wise and money is tight for the nut flour. I made one nut flour bread from the SCD BOOK and hated it and threw it away uke I still believe in the diet.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I believe that kids are 100% able to self regulate IF they haven't had their taste buds and systems skewed by processed refined foods. We were meant to be able to deal with hunger and cravings naturally and as long as we don't step in the way of nature it can happen. The problem is, for that to work you have to avoid all modern crap-all of it. That is no easy task.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I believe that kids are 100% able to self regulate IF they haven't had their taste buds and systems skewed by processed refined foods. We were meant to be able to deal with hunger and cravings naturally and as long as we don't step in the way of nature it can happen. The problem is, for that to work you have to avoid all modern crap-all of it. That is no easy task.

This is interesting.....I was just commenting to my DH last night that when I'm at home, I have no trouble with craving food that I can't have right now. During the workday when I'm in restaurants all day inspecting, I have had _insane_ hankerings for the nastiest stuff. Yesterday I was actually insanely tempted by Long John Silvers, for crying out loud. Even after seeing what that fish looks like in freezer.......Hmmmm, maybe I'll keep my kids at home until they're 18......

Going to introduce 24 hour goat yogurt this weekend - wish me luck!


----------



## april2462 (May 15, 2006)

I usually only lurk on this thread but wanted to say that I am so happy that you are all talking about children and SAD and the good food/bad food divide. I've been on SCD for a few weeks now and having a house guest for four days was a very good lesson for me on how far I have to go to feel comfortable with this diet. When it's me alone, eating legal is somewhat easy. When it's me with DH, DS1 and DS2 it's a little harder. But when it's my family and a guest eating ice cream on a sunny Swedish day on an ocean boardwalk, well that is the purest torture. It is taking me a couple of days to recover internal equalibrium and feel that a bowl of homemade yogurt with cinnamon and sauteed apples is a wonderful, healthful treat. But just knowing that you are all out there dealing with these issues on a daily basis is a great comfort. Thanks, thanks, thanks!


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicholas_mom*
Yes, I agree. I let my 3 yr old regulate what he eats, but he never had candy and thinks the candy at the check out line is there for him to rearrange.







He like to snack on fruit or yogurt. Its the yoghurt I am trying to curb because (not knowing better) I bought StonyFarms Yo Baby yoghurt and he can a cup and a half. So, I mix half my homemade yoghurt with the YoBaby yoghurt and he loves it. But I my goal is to get him to 100% my yoghurt and he doesn't like it because its too sour. However, (I forget her name) the NT mama that has a recipe website gave a great suggestion for vanilla yoghurt.....vanilla extract and cinnamon (both SCD legal). I tried it and DS loves better sometimes than his.

Anyway, I do have some organic cookies in the house and his weekness is doughnuts but we don't regularly have them. He can have cookies whenever he wants, and in the beginning he ate alot of it but lately (in the last year) he doesn't want even if I offer it because I want one







:

As you can see I am not SCD 100%. I need to try things out, recipe wise and money is tight for the nut flour. I made one nut flour bread from the SCD BOOK and hated it and threw it away uke I still believe in the diet.

I just made Panna Cotta with yogurt as a treat for DS. It's very easy and is spoonable just like real "store bought" yogurt. Plus a good way to get gelatin in them.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...5&postcount=93

That thread also has the cashew butter bread/cake recipe. I've made it with homemade blanched almond butter, pecan butter, etc. it always comes out great.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I've been lucky with DS so far about good food/bad food issues. He's only recently become aware of what candy/chocolate is but never asks for it b/c of course he's never had it!

Any junk food in the house is for DH and frankly I want to eliminate that totally. I don't really agree with that linked thread about keeping stuff in the house to allow a child to self regulate. Not only do I know the connection between junk food and health (WAP and NT) but for DS and I... we've so visibly been been hurt by an improper diet there's no way I'd ever let him eat that way even if he was healthy right now.

I worry about this a lot. Whether he will ever be "healthy". How can I raise him not to fear food b/c it's likely that he will NEVER be able to eat "normally". What if he's never able to eat much sugar, pizza, fries etc. etc. that kids normally binge on. How on earth is he going to be able to understand that without himself suffering the consequences and bringing on something like Crohn's?

I make treats for DS, he has his SCD cookies and cake so I don't think he feels deprived so far for those things. The poor kids is bascially sick to death of the same food though, he'd rather have chili or mac&cheese or fish sticks or the 800 other things he's seen his friends and other people eat.









Edit: and he would be perfectly happy to have homemade, if only he could just have some different food!

It strikes terror in my heart about him starting preschool in Fall. Because it's a Montessori program, they make a big deal about sharing food tasks and preparation and sharing from common dish for snacks. My fervent hope when I registered him in January that he would be able to eat these snacks with enzymes and that's looking impossible.









Unlike most of these other mama's talking about this on the other thread... a lot of our kids literally CANNOT have this food or it will seriously effect them and impede their progress.

Also know this... I was called obsessive over my DS's health yesterday and I'm still trying to get over it. It makes me really angry that now that I have made these crucial connections with my child. The diet/gut connection that literally has the potential to effect his very health/brain/personality *for the rest of his life*... and it's not honored and trusted.

Plus I'm so panicked about going on vacation in a week and what he's going to eat.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

This would be an interesting question to bring up in the NT thread too.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Might I add to the list of enzyme questions? JaneS? Other enzyme vets?

I'm currently taking Betaine HCL With Pepsin and am looking at adding No-Fenol for the yeasties and because it seems like a good all-encompassing enzyme. Is this a good idea?

I'm doing SCD and am on Phase 2 - have successfully added cashew butter (and therefore Jane's cashew butter cake/bread! woohoo!). I'm still trying to be slow about adding new foods, so far so good I think.

But those yesties! I need to help them die. So are these two okay together? Should I wait until I finish one and then switch (I don't want to wait that long, I got the huge bottle of Betaine HCL and I want to help kill the yeasties NOW, especially since DS seems to also have itchy ears.)

So. Thoughts? Advice? Input?

I am so greatful for this thread and the experience of the Mamas here.









No Fenol is just cellulase, it's not an all around enzyme. Zyme Prime is the Houston product all around that digests fats, carbs and proteins. No Fenol is commonly recommended for yeast when taken between meals.

Betaine HCL is not for between meals, but high cellulases and proteases between meals are excellent for yeast/bacteria killing and helping clear out junk/inflammation. Peptizyde is Houston's high protease product. I saw a lot of benefit from taking this (or Virastop) between meals/at night but it took time to work up to a therapeutic dose. Made me hyper.

Yes you can take the HCL with the enzymes with food.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I meant pressure, not sugar. Oops!

Make sure you are using sea salt, NOT processed iodized salt which is only sodium chloride and has been stripped of minerals. It does not combine with the blood properly. I think this is the basis of many blood pressure problems.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Came across a great article re: allergies and enzymes

Quote:

When it comes to immune system function, protein is the most essential nutrient. White blood cells, cellular complements and many other aspects of this system are dependent upon protein. Enzymes themselves are composed of protein and minerals. Additionally, Dr Howell reminds us of this "vital force" inherent in enzymes. These microscopic entities we are dependent upon have something of an almost mysterious nature. Various white blood cells use enzymes literally to digest what they come up against in our bodies. These processes are known as pinocytosis and phagocytosis. After engulfing an offending pathogen or allergen, white blood cells secrete enzymes that destroy and digest it. *If the majority of enzymes from the immune system are being redirected to digest food, how is it possible to maintain healthy immune system functions?*

As the 1990s progressed, patients were told they must have an environmentally induced illness, which could include allergies and hypersensitivities. Patients were told to avoid everything they were allergic to and take enormous amounts of supplements. Usually this resulted in extremely limited diets and very expensive bills. New "energy" techniques were developed supposedly to remove blocked energy and rewire the nervous system to allow for accepting the allergen into the body without the overt reaction.

If we look at allergies from an enzyme point of view, it becomes apparent why so many of these techniques work only temporarily. Allergies are the body's reaction to something entering via the blood, skin, nasal cavity or other source. When something enters the body in a healthy person, the immune system is called upon to investigate and clear the allergen (substance) from the body. This happens without any notice. Because there are enough enzymes available in a healthy person, the allergen can be cleared unobtrusively. In someone with an allergic response to the same substance, the immune system is called to do the same work but finds it cannot handle the request. *In a person who exhibits an allergic response, there are not enough enzymes available for the white blood cells to break down the allergen and rid the body of it.* They then experience the typical histamine response, including reddening of the eyes or local tissue, heat, runny nose and pain.

*People with allergies of an airborne source are typically those with a history of excessive sugar and simple carbohydrate intake. Someone with this problem has depleted their reserves of the enzyme amylase. Amylase is an IgG histamine blocker. .* Like bioflavonoids, amylase stabilises the mast cells and basophiles that release histamine as a reaction to the damaged area. Antihistamines are what these types of patients get from their doctors.
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/Enzymes1.html
Part 3 is interesting too, more discussion of above.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *HerthElde*
So if enzymes are proteins that act as catalysts, is it not possible that overdoing enzymes could contribute to further gut damage? Anyone done any research in that area?

Karen DeFelice addresses this in her book www.enzymestuff.com which is a must read to understand leaky gut and the digetive process as a whole. And the gut-brain connection esp. in children.

Enzymes only digest dead tissue in the body. The proteases can be tough on an inflamed gut, much like debrading a wound she says, but ultimately helpful.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Jane -- how far from home are you going? Are you going in a car with a cooler? Just hoping to find good places?

*preschool*. Not to panic an people here







but Frederick started at a Montessori school a year ago and then did 2 1/2 days a week this past fall. Before preschool he had no idea whatsoever what candy was. Even this past Christmas someone gave him a candy cane and he brought it home and put it on a tree. Two months later he found it and ate it. He thought gumballs in the machine were balls to play with. So over the course of the many months now, he's been exposed to a lot and he knows it when he sees it. He still doesn't recognize chocolate on my breath







:

He is not nearly as sensitive as children on this thread. The biggest issue is his behavior after eating this stuff. On holidays they have a morning party and an afternoon party. No way will I take him full day on a holiday party day again. Wow. The day after Valentine's Day was hell and that pretty much tipped the scale -- we've had him in for half days since. They are good about not allowing children to share lunches, but they do provide a snack which is usually a cracker or two and cheese or some pretzels. I didn't think it was a big deal until I showed up one day at 4 pm as they were headed out for recess and apparently a child is chosen to take out the leftover snacks. Perhaps this is not the case everyday, I don't know. But Frederick was chosen that day and so I found him seated in front of a big bowl of pretzels absolutely stuffing his face. This reminded me of a play group years ago with saltine crackers. He and another child could not have fit more into their mouths before the moms discovered it. For the other children it was no big deal -- they had this stuff all the time.

Jane -- talk to the teacher. On days where the snack is OK (like bananas), he could help prepare. On other days, they can rotate other children in. Bring snacks for him that are a little more special than he is used to. Have the teachers give him that. Don't talk to them about enzymes and gut problems, just mention "severe gluten allergies" and be done with it. They might get that. Find out in advance when the birthdays are. Do something else those days.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I wonder if amylese will work for eczema? Is it a different histamine reaction than IgG? I think Enzymedica has a high amylese product.

Another question: I'm trying to get rid of yeast and checked out the ingredients for Fungal Defense. It has high cellulase and protease, herbs and probiotics, but it also has oregano oil. It's still not clear to me why bf mamas can't take it... does anybody know?


----------



## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Are you asking what's in Fungal Defense that nursing mamas can't take it or why they can't take oregano oil?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

If I've been eating 1/2 cup a day of 24 hr goat yogurt for a week with no visible reaction from DD, is it safe to think she's not going to have a problem with it, or could she still have a delayed reaction? I want to start taking Candidase in between meals and I'm anticipating that she'll have some sort of reaction to that since she's had a reaction every time I've added enzymes or upped the dose, and I want to make sure any reaction is due to that and not the goat yogurt.

Why is oil of oregano bad for pregnant or nursing?

Funny (sort of) story along those lines...I bought some oil of oregano and didn't realize until I got home that I couldn't use it, so when I returned it to the HFS, the cashier asked why I was returning it and I told her. Then she asked me when number two was due (DD was in her sling) and I was like, "Uhhh...there is no number two!" thinking that I hope I don't look pregnant! She said she forgot about the nursing part of not being able to use the oil of oregano!


----------



## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Are you asking what's in Fungal Defense that nursing mamas can't take it or why they can't take oregano oil?

Why can't we take oregano oil?


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Jane S*
Plus I'm so panicked about going on vacation in a week and what he's going to eat.
I just went through this and stressed over it too. I baked, baked, baked before we left and brought the essentials with me (almond flour for one.) Since we went out of the country, we actually got a special "permit" to allow us to bring in food items. Poor dh, he lugged our carry ons, diaper bag and 2 large soft coolers through 3 different airports. It really wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be. You'll be fine.









And...dh could only have what I made on vacation and as a result he lost some weight. (He couldn't have his usual work-week goodies.) ha.


----------



## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

I can't believe that I'm counting down to the minute when I can introduce the goat yogurt....Dh ate that crappy garlic bread tonight at diner (you know, the stuff you put in the oven and tastes _so good_) and I was eating a plateful with about 80% veggies and 20% fish. I don't even recognize myself anymore








I was perusing the illegals list on BTVC, and got to thinking: How long do people stay on the SCD diet, after you're symptom-free and have introduced everything that is "legal"? I know Elaine mentioned that her daughter was on it for some 7 years, so I know even she didn't intend that you could never have potatoes again. Those of you who successfully added in illegals, how long were you on the strict SCD? I've set a goal for being on it a year before I start introducing illegals - it sounded so disciplined to me, but I wonder if I'm way off...... <sigh> I miss mashed potatoes.......


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Thanks a lot Amanda!









I just worry the most how DS will be different, eating different stuff. I'm happy to make whatever for him, including birthday cupcakes. At this point I would love it if he can just have fruit, and then everyone else can too (the teacher mentioned this), but then DS is still sensitive to so many fruits and still needs most cooked.









Geez Terri, I feel bad for complaining, we are only going a few hours away, probably bringing only one cooler and staying in a house with great kitchen. But DH's family will be with us and I'm paranoid about them slipping DS food. And also going out to restaurants. A burger and avocado doesn't cut it for DS anymore after over 9 months of this.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Those of you who successfully added in illegals, how long were you on the strict SCD? I've set a goal for being on it a year before I start introducing illegals - it sounded so disciplined to me, but I wonder if I'm way off...... <sigh> I miss mashed potatoes.......

It depends on the person I think. It was about 7 months for me. Stepping up enzymes with and between meals was the reason I could leave SCD I think. Maybe other NT things added too, dunno. Still just doing one grain/day now, soaked. Potatoes are now fine but NOT the skins (yikes). So maybe I'm not fully healed and I'm being stupid. But I figure as long as I have no symptoms and feel good I'm okay. Plus adding and continuing other probiotics (kefir, kombucha, fermented veggies).


----------



## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Geez Terri, I feel bad for complaining, we are only going a few hours away, probably bringing only one cooler and staying in a house with great kitchen. But DH's family will be with us and I'm paranoid about them slipping DS food. And also going out to restaurants. A burger and avocado doesn't cut it for DS anymore after over 9 months of this.
We had to get a document from the Queen.







Seriously. That's what the faxed cover sheet was. We joked about that one. Dh got it at work and everyone wanted to know what it was. Of course dh kept it a secret just to make everyone wonder . . .

OT: Are you going to Maine? I sure miss vacationing there. <sigh>


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I've been lucky with DS so far about good food/bad food issues. He's only recently become aware of what candy/chocolate is but never asks for it b/c of course he's never had it!

Any junk food in the house is for DH and frankly I want to eliminate that totally. I don't really agree with that linked thread about keeping stuff in the house to allow a child to self regulate. Not only do I know the connection between junk food and health (WAP and NT) but for DS and I... we've so visibly been been hurt by an improper diet there's no way I'd ever let him eat that way even if he was healthy right now.

I worry about this a lot. Whether he will ever be "healthy". How can I raise him not to fear food b/c it's likely that he will NEVER be able to eat "normally". What if he's never able to eat much sugar, pizza, fries etc. etc. that kids normally binge on. How on earth is he going to be able to understand that without himself suffering the consequences and bringing on something like Crohn's?

I make treats for DS, he has his SCD cookies and cake so I don't think he feels deprived so far for those things. The poor kids is bascially sick to death of the same food though, he'd rather have chili or mac&cheese or fish sticks or the 800 other things he's seen his friends and other people eat.









Edit: and he would be perfectly happy to have homemade, if only he could just have some different food!

It strikes terror in my heart about him starting preschool in Fall. Because it's a Montessori program, they make a big deal about sharing food tasks and preparation and sharing from common dish for snacks. My fervent hope when I registered him in January that he would be able to eat these snacks with enzymes and that's looking impossible.









Unlike most of these other mama's talking about this on the other thread... a lot of our kids literally CANNOT have this food or it will seriously effect them and impede their progress.

Also know this... I was called obsessive over my DS's health yesterday and I'm still trying to get over it. It makes me really angry that now that I have made these crucial connections with my child. The diet/gut connection that literally has the potential to effect his very health/brain/personality *for the rest of his life*... and it's not honored and trusted.

Plus I'm so panicked about going on vacation in a week and what he's going to eat.









Jane, I was a montessori teacher for a few years. (long ago in another life...) If it is a typical classroom snack will have logistical issues. The good thing is that snack happens whenever kids want it to happen. Usually 2 at a time sitting at a small snack table, getting their own snack so less pressure on him to eat what everyone else is eating. We usually offered water unless a parent bringing snack brought juice too. Probably you should figure out something non perishable that he can eat for snacks and leave in his cubby or wherever. Be sure to let the school know now about his issues so that the teacher can brainstorm about solutions. I would go the "severe allergies" route too. That is something most people can wrap their brains arround.

If you want him to get enzymes with his snack you could send a juice in a sippy cup or small bottle or something with them in it. He'll be expected to pour his own cup of water/juice for snack so this can be part of that process for him as well. Depending on the state laws you may or may not want to mention it being a suppliment in his juice that he is getting. While I was teaching the laws changed and it got complicated to even apply the sunscreen kids brought with them (it is a topical medication don't you know :eyeroll).

I have those panicy times when I wish I had no idea about dd's damaged gut (or my own) and could just blithely feed her everything and "discipline" the reactions from it out of her. But ultimately it is the best thing we can do for our children and I beleive that we will win this war. (of course you have been at this longer than me so perhaps this is just my naivete showing.)


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Okay, so I haven't read the whole article yet on enzymes and allergic responses to foods. I find the idea intriguing, though, and will read the article soon. Is it possible for a child's system to naturally free up enzymes over time? I am thinking of dd. I eliminated the top allergens from my diet while nursing and gave her probiotics, but she still had reactions to lots of foods. Now that she's two, she only reacts to the foods she has IgE mediated allergies to. And the only thing she eats that travels through undigested is green olives. So, I've never given her enzymes, but she's much better. Is that due to the gut maturing on its own?
Just a thought.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

I think kids can self-regulate, too if they are fed a healthy diet. Sadly, dd does know what chocolate is and absolutely loves it. However, she doesn't get chocolate as I can not have sweets in the house without compulsively eating them until they are all gone.







: (and I'll confess I just finished off a bag of chocolate chips I bought in a moment of weakness.)
At least dd doesn't know what candy is. She saw a bowl of gummi bears at the doctor's office today and said, "look, mommy, animals." She had no idea they were candy.
Sadly though, I know this will change. She's only 2.5 and lives a sheltered life. Stays home with mommy, only eats foods I provide, goes to church classes 3 times a week where there is no snack offered. I know that when we move, settle in, and begin interacting more with others, things will change. Chances are we'll be around other kids more who do eat junk. The church we go to will probably have junk as snacks in classes. (The church my sister in law goes to gives out tons of junk food as snacks and treats in class.)
I am really not looking forward to her being exposed to junk food and me having to be the bad guy saying no you can't have that.
After we move and get settled in, we will be doing the scd or the closest I feel I can do. I want her growing up on good food.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Plus I'm so panicked about going on vacation in a week and what he's going to eat.

















I'll be thinking of you, Jane, and hoping things go well. I've been panicking about food, too, cause we're moving in about three weeks--going to be driving from WA to TN to visit for a week or two, then to FL to visit for a few weeks, and then finally to WA DC. I know we'll be fine in TN and FL for our visits, but the days of driving. Aack!


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Hello ladies,
I just received a 2lb container glutamine powder (vitacost under $28) . I'm switching from capsules to powder and would like suggestions of how to take it.


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

I made the mistake of having pasta for dinner last night. we were just using what was left before we started the diet june 1. DD2 was up all night. she could not get comfortable. She was so gassy this morning when she woke up. I was reminded of how badly she needs me to start this diet.

Since JaneS brought it up, what do you eat while traveling? we go visit my parents once a month and usually stop to eat once during the trip. Do you always pack food or is there any way to eat out?

I started a thread over in meal planning wanting ideas on what you eat. please give me some ideas on what your food intake is each day.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=458841

Also I was wondering my kids dont like yogurt and dont each cheese. I am wondering how else to get calcium in them. they dont like the green veggies that are calcium rich either. I think I could maybe get them to try the yogurt if I made it into smoothie popsicles. Can I do this with the 24hr yogurt?


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

Just this week I started having painful bumbs on my hands. They are the size of pimples but they look like raised bumps of skin (they are skin colored). They hurt when I press on them.

Has anyone had these?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *chlobo*
Just this week I started having painful bumbs on my hands. They are the size of pimples but they look like raised bumps of skin (they are skin colored). They hurt when I press on them.

Has anyone had these?
Yes! nak right now but will edit this post later to tell more.

chlobo, I have had these and suspected they had something to do with some kind of "imbalance." I have a little one on my left hand, and two little ones on my left hip. (Weird, all left side.)
When I showed them to my gp he just said they were benign cysts. No other explanation. They do hurt if I try to push on them or pinch them and while they're tiny, they still drive me nuts. (Just like a zit - they're hard to leave alone!)







:

I do think it's related to diet/nutrition/hormones somehow.

You'll have to let me know if you show them to your doc. I'd be interested to know what his/her take is on it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

toooo funny Terri!

Nope, not Maine. The best town on ole Cape Cod... Provincetown!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Thanks Patty









That's good advice about the supplements. Karen DeFelice's book talks alot about that too, some parents have been thru hell with schools over enzymes, it's so crazy.

Firstly, you are SO not naive. My goodness you jumped in so wholeheartedly and tackled this issue with much success so far, you have a lot of wisdom to share.

Snacktime is a particular time in a group as I understand it. They eat from a common bowls and serve themselves and also have designed kids "in charge" for that particular day for set up, clean up etc.. Usually it's fruit and crackers or pretzels or dry cereal.

All of this is so feeding into my worry and despair about DS not progressing and how I have literally no idea what to do next about his diet. Since obviously even this limited SCD is doing less than nothing for him. There very well could be foods that he tolerates just fine now and I'm not feeding them b/c I'm afraid to break the SCD.









(Since there are SCD foods which he cannot tolerate at all, and he still has bouts of loose stools that I cannot figure out the cause of now. So in some ways I don't think I'd be able to tell if new foods are effecting him...)

The Ped/homeopath wants to change his bowel nosode, he's on uva ursi now even though I was reluctant to do so, but combining with milk thistle. I guess we will just keep plugging on. You are not the only one who's still learning here!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *memory maker*
Since JaneS brought it up, what do you eat while traveling? we go visit my parents once a month and usually stop to eat once during the trip. Do you always pack food or is there any way to eat out?

Also I was wondering my kids dont like yogurt and dont each cheese. I am wondering how else to get calcium in them. they dont like the green veggies that are calcium rich either. I think I could maybe get them to try the yogurt if I made it into smoothie popsicles. Can I do this with the 24hr yogurt?

Bone broths are the only source of calcium I would trust to be absorbed effectively other than dairy (cultured or raw or both).

KAL Dolomite powder is very cheap, has both cal and mag and is recommended by WAPF as being well absorbed.

Yes you can do popsicles, but they would have to eat several a day everday to rely on a regular source of calcium.

I always bring some stuff to supplement any meals that weeat out. In a small cooler or just easily packed things like muffins. Then order plain meat/fish, veggies and salads with oil/vinegar on side. Except DS cannot do a lot of veggies still or salads, so things are really difficult with respect to him. We don't eat out a lot. That's why an avocado used to be a great option to grab but he is sick of them, so I have to make avocado puddings and keep in cooler. Just more work for mama!









Will add more to that thread...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
Okay, so I haven't read the whole article yet on enzymes and allergic responses to foods. I find the idea intriguing, though, and will read the article soon. Is it possible for a child's system to naturally free up enzymes over time? I am thinking of dd. I eliminated the top allergens from my diet while nursing and gave her probiotics, but she still had reactions to lots of foods. Now that she's two, she only reacts to the foods she has IgE mediated allergies to. And the only thing she eats that travels through undigested is green olives. So, I've never given her enzymes, but she's much better. Is that due to the gut maturing on its own?
Just a thought.

Yes, definately. Both the good bacteria and the intestinal villi produce digestive enzymes, not just the pancreas.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Just wanted to write a quick update about dd1.

She's been totally SCD for one week and her behavior this week has been remarkable!







I know it's related to her diet.

One thing though; she's been poopying EVERY morning. Yipeee! But it's always mushy. She hasn't had a firm poopy since I can remember (other than when she's constipated and doesn't go for 2-3 days.)









I did not start her on the intro diet. I've just been letting her eat pretty much everything I do. I'm so afraid to change anything now that she's made so much progress this week.

I also stopped the enzymes between meals too because I thought maybe that contributed to her severe constipation last week. (It was either that or the TINY bit of milk dh gave her.) FTR, she hadn't had milk in forever.

Any thoughts?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Anyone want to discuss the article on enzymes and allergies? I've only read part of it, but I think they are attributing things to the wrong cause (ie leaky gut is causing the diseases, not lack of enzymes, although maybe they're related). They really can't apply the Pottenger cat studies with cooked foods to humans--animals clearly aren't made to have cooked foods, while humans are (as evidenced by Dr. Price's research). I'm just curious what everyone else thinks of the article...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Antibiotics Kill Your Body's Good Bacteria, Too, Leading to Serious Health Risks*
http://www.mercola.com/2003/jun/18/a...s_bacteria.htm

Quote:

Simply put, antibiotics are poisons that are used to kill. Only licensed physicians can prescribe them. The drugs are used to kill bacteria. Certainly, many people have benefited from using them. However, if bacteria were the only organisms that antibiotics killed, much of this book would be unnecessary. In fact, I con*tend that poisons that kill small organisms in small doses -- organism-specific varieties notwithstanding -- can also kill big organisms, when they are taken in big doses. You, my friend, are a big organism.

We've talked about the link between fungus and human disease. This chapter addresses the possibility that antibiotics may help fungi to proliferate within the human body.

As an adult human, you have three to four pounds of beneficial bacteria and yeast living within your intestines. These microbes compete for nutrients from the food you eat. Usually, the strength in numbers beneficial bacteria enjoy both keeps the ever-present yeasts in check and causes them to produce nutrients such as the B vitamins.

However, every time you swallow antibiotics, you kill the beneficial bacteria within your intestines. When you do so, you upset the delicate balance of your intestinal terrain. Yeasts grow unchecked into large colonies and take over, in a condition called dysbiosis.

Yeasts are opportunistic organisms. This means that, as the intestinal bacteria die, yeasts thrive, especially when their dietary needs are met. They can use their tendrils, or hyphae, to literally poke holes through the lining of your intestinal wall. This results in a syndrome called leaky gut. Yeasts are not the only possible cause of this syndrome. Some scientists have linked non-steroidal, anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDS) such as naproxen and ibuprofen to the problem. Given their ability to alter intestinal terrain, antibiotics also likely contribute to leaky gut syndrome.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I wonder if amylese will work for eczema? Is it a different histamine reaction than IgG? I think Enzymedica has a high amylese product.

That's a very good question, check around Karen's Yahoo group www.enzymestuff.com

Enzymedica's high amylase product is called Allerase
http://www.enzymedica.com/allerase.php


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

From the allergies and enzymes article:

Quote:

New "energy" techniques were developed supposedly to remove blocked energy and rewire the nervous system to allow for accepting the allergen into the body without the overt reaction.
Is this describing NAET treatments?


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## MommyofPunkiePie (Mar 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *memory maker*

Also I was wondering my kids dont like yogurt and dont each cheese. I am wondering how else to get calcium in them. they dont like the green veggies that are calcium rich either. I think I could maybe get them to try the yogurt if I made it into smoothie popsicles. Can I do this with the 24hr yogurt?

I don't know if it's relavent for you, but I give my DD sesame milk that I make myself. She loves it, and sesame has tons of calcium.

I also make kale cubes. I take out the ribs, steam it for a few minutes with no additional water (just whatever was left from washing the kale), puree it with some water, and then strain it really well. I put it in ice cubes trays, freeze, and add a cube to her smoothie that I make for her every day. I can't even taste the kale!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I think I jinxed myself...DD's eczema is coming back and it looks like the goat yogurt is the cause as that's the only thing I've added in the last week. Could it take a week for a reaction to show up? And what do I do now? Do I keep using it and see what happens or is it best to stop if she is reacting to it?

Why can't just ONE PART of this whole process go smoothly? Why does everything have to be so complicated?

ETA: is it possible it could be some sort of die-off reaction? Her eczema flared up when I added enzymes, and I don't know if that was a die-off reaction or what (Enzymedica enzymes, no additives).


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I think I jinxed myself...DD's eczema is coming back and it looks like the goat yogurt is the cause as that's the only thing I've added in the last week. Could it take a week for a reaction to show up? And what do I do now? Do I keep using it and see what happens or is it best to stop if she is reacting to it?

Why can't just ONE PART of this whole process go smoothly? Why does everything have to be so complicated?

I don't know the answers to your questions; but I do know that ds is genrally dairy free and if he has just a bit, we don't have behavioral changes,. But after consuming it for several days, we do. It appears that there is some sort of threashold to no symptoms and then we 'spill over' when he has had too much. We did a recent trial with dairy, and it seemed ok until several exposures. From an allergen pov, the initial exposure reaction isn't usually as severe as after the body's developed allergenic response. So, each additional exposure to an allergen is generally more severe, like bee stings.









Pat


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## CAJen (Oct 31, 2005)

I'm nearing the end of my first day on the SCD intro diet and it is kicking my butt. I just took a 3 hour nap that I could not make myself wake up from. A couple of months ago I had to be on a liquid diet for two days to prepare for my laparoscopy, and I wasn't nearly this weak, so something is definitely working. I'm excited! I was a little late getting going on my 24-hour yogurt, but that should be ready tomorrow, if all goes well. In the meantime I've got a ton of Farmer's cheese in the fridge.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Anyone want to discuss the article on enzymes and allergies? I've only read part of it, but I think they are attributing things to the wrong cause (ie leaky gut is causing the diseases, not lack of enzymes, although maybe they're related). They really can't apply the Pottenger cat studies with cooked foods to humans--animals clearly aren't made to have cooked foods, while humans are (as evidenced by Dr. Price's research). I'm just curious what everyone else thinks of the article...

RE: lack of enzymes vs. leaky gut

I'm not so sure they are not one in the same. If our foods were digested properly, they wouldn't be leaking through, causing allergies and havoc in the bloodstream. The intestinal flora wouldn't get out of whack by the fermentation of undigested foods. (Since it is the intestinal villi which produce the enzymes that digest sugars.) And we wouldn't need something like the SCD. It's like which came first, the chicken or the egg?

RE: WAP research

Actually Price revealed that large part of native diets all over the world were raw and fermented. And that is why NT recommends half of daily diet be raw and/or fermented to replenish our enzyme reserves.

And why raw dairy is so important to Western palates/diet traditions. Raw dairy (and egg yolks) is an easy way to get beneficial raw fats and proteins into our diets b/c we are not going to be eating raw whale blubber hand over fist like the Eskimos! Raw butter is much easier to "force" down.









It's all about the power of our digestions... those Eskimos, although they ate nothing but meat and fat, did not go into ketosis. Because the meat and fat were mostly raw and some fermented, the high enzyme content of the food enabled them to completely digest it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
From the allergies and enzymes article:

Is this describing NAET treatments?

Sounds like it. http://www.naet.com/ I'm considering them for DS.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
RE: lack of enzymes vs. leaky gut

I'm not so sure they are not one in the same. If our foods were digested properly, they wouldn't be leaking through, causing allergies and havoc in the bloodstream. The intestinal flora wouldn't get out of whack by the fermentation of undigested foods. (Since it is the intestinal villi which produce the enzymes that digest sugars.) And we wouldn't need something like the SCD. It's like which came first, the chicken or the egg?

RE: WAP research

Actually Price revealed that large part of native diets all over the world were raw and fermented. And that is why NT recommends half of daily diet be raw and/or fermented to replenish our enzyme reserves.

And why raw dairy is so important to Western palates/diet traditions. Raw dairy (and egg yolks) is an easy way to get beneficial raw fats and proteins into our diets b/c we are not going to be eating raw whale blubber hand over fist like the Eskimos! Raw butter is much easier to "force" down.









It's all about the power of our digestions... those Eskimos, although they ate nothing but meat and fat, did not go into ketosis. Because the meat and fat were mostly raw and some fermented, the high enzyme content of the food enabled them to completely digest it.

I'm not saying raw/fermented foods aren't important, but I disagree with their conclusion that eating cooked food causes all diseases, and that humans weren't designed to eat cooked food. That's what I meant when I said that Dr. Price's research disproves their conclusion--the people that he studied all (except the Eskimos?) ate cooked foods and were very healthy.


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

I have a confession to make: I am an SCD drop-out.

I tried, I really did, but after a week of doing it I just felt horrible. And I tried to eat eggs, cheese, goat milk yogurt, and fish, but it just seemed all _wrong_ to me. I normally am very "regular" with no problems and it was making me constipated (as well as my EBF son), I felt light-headed and weak, etc. And as a vegan it just felt _wrong_ to me. I'm not sure how else to put it.

I'm certainly not condemning the diet at all. I think the science seems sound and the idea of getting away from so many grains is a good one. I was never totally sure that a leaky gut was my problem to begin with, though maybe I'm in denial! I do think my bacteria might be out of balance. And I know I eat too many grains.

So...maybe I'm one of those people who do need to eat vegan, with a little tweaking. I'm doing the Blue Ice CLO along with the WAPF-recommended x-factor butter, and I'm using CO, and I'll continue with the 24-hour yogurt using coconut milk or almond milk, and I'll add greens to my morning smoothie.

I wonder if maybe I just wasn't getting enough of the good fats in my diet? And I also wonder if I was/am vitamin A and D deficient. My skin is starting to look fairly good and I've been doing Blue Ice for less than a week.

Anyway, this thread and the NT thread have been a journey for me as someone who was POSITIVE veganism was the best way. And I'm still not convinced that it's not, lol. (I had a wonderfully healthy pregnancy, never had any problems with my milk supply, and my son has more than thrived on my milk...so to me that says something.)

But I'm open-minded and at the very least I'm adding in the things I do feel are beneficial for me.

I hope you all won't judge me too harshly...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I have a confession to make: I am an SCD drop-out.

I tried, I really did, but after a week of doing it I just felt horrible. And I tried to eat eggs, cheese, goat milk yogurt, and fish, but it just seemed all _wrong_ to me. I normally am very "regular" with no problems and it was making me constipated (as well as my EBF son), I felt light-headed and weak, etc. And as a vegan it just felt _wrong_ to me. I'm not sure how else to put it.

I'm certainly not condemning the diet at all. I think the science seems sound and the idea of getting away from so many grains is a good one. I was never totally sure that a leaky gut was my problem to begin with, though maybe I'm in denial! I do think my bacteria might be out of balance. And I know I eat too many grains.

So...maybe I'm one of those people who do need to eat vegan, with a little tweaking. I'm doing the Blue Ice CLO along with the WAPF-recommended x-factor butter, and I'm using CO, and I'll continue with the 24-hour yogurt using coconut milk or almond milk, and I'll add greens to my morning smoothie.

I wonder if maybe I just wasn't getting enough of the good fats in my diet? And I also wonder if I was/am vitamin A and D deficient. My skin is starting to look fairly good and I've been doing Blue Ice for less than a week.

Anyway, this thread and the NT thread have been a journey for me as someone who was POSITIVE veganism was the best way. And I'm still not convinced that it's not, lol. (I had a wonderfully healthy pregnancy, never had any problems with my milk supply, and my son has more than thrived on my milk...so to me that says something.)

But I'm open-minded and at the very least I'm adding in the things I do feel are beneficial for me.

I hope you all won't judge me too harshly...

















I'm glad you feel you got something out of the experience, and I definitely believe the CLO and CO will be beneficial to you, even if you don't do anything else. Plus now you know where to go if you do have problems in the future or want to make any changes (NT or even SCD if necessary)


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Can someone help me w/ the dosing of probiotics while taking an antibiotic. I know how bad antibiotics are but I have a very bad case of scarlet fever. That is one thing I will take the antibiotics for (this is the third time I have had it) because I have a heart murmer and it can be dangerous. I take probiotics daily but wondered if I should take extra while on the meds. Thanks for the help from a very sick and unhappy mama right now.
Should I give them to my 14mo nursling or will he get enough from me?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
Can someone help me w/ the dosing of probiotics while taking an antibiotic. I know how bad antibiotics are but I have a very bad case of scarlet fever. That is one thing I will take the antibiotics for (this is the third time I have had it) because I have a heart murmer and it can be dangerous. I take probiotics daily but wondered if I should take extra while on the meds. Thanks for the help from a very sick and unhappy mama right now.
Should I give them to my 14mo nursling or will he get enough from me?

I'm not an expert or anything, but I would definitely take more while you're taking the antibiotics, and also for a couple of weeks afterward...maybe 3 times your normal dose? I would think if your babe nurses a lot he would get plenty from you.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

So I did the yeast spit test this morning, just for kicks.....I _think_ I had what you ladies describe is a medium positive test: formed strands and sank, but not very defined and not very fast. I have absolutely no symptoms of yeast overgrowth (that I know of), so I really don't know what to do with this information. Anyone have any ideas? I'm kind of at a plateau point with my improvement - skin is still bad, but not painful anymore.

NewMama, I wanted to send some love your way - this is an incredibly difficult diet, especially when you're not even positive that it's applicable to your situation. It's a good cache of info to have in your mind though, in case you get to a place where you think it's appropriate and can figure out coping mechanisms to deal with how the diet makes you feel at first. I really hope the supplements help!


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Might I add to the list of enzyme questions? JaneS? Other enzyme vets?

I'm currently taking Betaine HCL With Pepsin and am looking at adding No-Fenol for the yeasties and because it seems like a good all-encompassing enzyme. Is this a good idea?

I'm doing SCD and am on Phase 2 - have successfully added cashew butter (and therefore Jane's cashew butter cake/bread! woohoo!). I'm still trying to be slow about adding new foods, so far so good I think.

But those yesties! I need to help them die. So are these two okay together? Should I wait until I finish one and then switch (I don't want to wait that long, I got the huge bottle of Betaine HCL and I want to help kill the yeasties NOW, especially since DS seems to also have itchy ears.)

So. Thoughts? Advice? Input?

I am so greatful for this thread and the experience of the Mamas here.









Reposting because I feel like it got lost in the thread (no answers).







:


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *New Mama*
I have a confession to make: I am an SCD drop-out.

I tried, I really did, but after a week of doing it I just felt horrible. And I tried to eat eggs, cheese, goat milk yogurt, and fish, but it just seemed all _wrong_ to me. I normally am very "regular" with no problems and it was making me constipated (as well as my EBF son), I felt light-headed and weak, etc. And as a vegan it just felt _wrong_ to me. I'm not sure how else to put it.

...

I hope you all won't judge me too harshly...









You can only do what is right for you to do.

Your experience on the diet closely parallels mine. Constipation and feeling horrible on the intro diet/begining of the diet is a pretty common experience. Those buggies in our guts don't like to give up and they can make you pretty miserable in their efforts to convince you to continue feeding them. One thing I have learned from this diet is that constipation is far less a factor of what we are eating and more a factor of how healthy our bowels are.

I'm not trying to tell you to not listen to your gut on this one (sorry for the pun) but to know that your reaction to the diet wasn't necessarily proof that it wasn't working for you. I'm glad that you are seeing some positive changes as well. Dh is currently of the opinion that this diet would probably do most americans good (he thinks that he has no real reason to follow it but is for moral support).


----------



## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
Can someone help me w/ the dosing of probiotics while taking an antibiotic. I know how bad antibiotics are but I have a very bad case of scarlet fever. That is one thing I will take the antibiotics for (this is the third time I have had it) because I have a heart murmer and it can be dangerous. I take probiotics daily but wondered if I should take extra while on the meds. Thanks for the help from a very sick and unhappy mama right now.
Should I give them to my 14mo nursling or will he get enough from me?

I think that the most important thing is to take them at opposite times from your antibiotic so that they have a chance to do some good before the abx wipes them out again.

Do you have any of the 24 hour yogurt? That would be the best. Anything cultured really. Beet kvass, lactofermented veggies, kombucha, kefir etc. Get as much of them into you as possible.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommyofPunkiePie*
I don't know if it's relavent for you, but I give my DD sesame milk that I make myself. She loves it, and sesame has tons of calcium.

I had never heard of it; but apparently several of my friend's childern are allergic to sesame milk. Just an FYI.

Pat


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Reposting a question about varying positives on spit test.









I googled it, but could only find the most basic, "if your spit forms 'legs", clousdy or sinks" information, and I'm wondering *what the length of the strands and time they take to form indicates* (bolding, not to be impatient, I am humbly greatful for all the wonderful wisdom on this thread







, I just know how busy it gets and want to be sure to be eye catching.







)
I ask b/c I have not yet begun the SCD diet, but have eliminated sugar and all dairy except kefir and yogurt and have upped my raw greens and kombucha intake for the past week and a half. While I still feel intermitently itchy in all the usual spots (ahem. . .), I am bloated, gassy, and slightly constipated. Is is possible for yeast to begin to die off this simply and quickly? My spit test took a while to form legs and they were very short.
Sorry I've got no answers about the enzyme question, I haven't even gotten there yet. In fact, if my dh asks, no one saw me here, I'm packing, right?








Thanks!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Reposting because I feel like it got lost in the thread (no answers).







:

What types of enzymes are in the Betaine (or whatever it was called, forgot already)? I think with yeast the recommendation is to take enzymes with both proteases and cellulase in between meals, so if the one has proteases that would go good with the No Fenol. Plus it is recommended to use a yeast killer, too, like raw garlic or grapefruit seed extract.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *the_dalai_mama*
I am bloated, gassy, and slightly constipated. Is is possible for yeast to begin to die off this simply and quickly?
Yes, it's possible and is probably what's happening. Sounds like the same symptoms I had right off the bat.

Sorry chasmyn, I don't know the answer to your question either.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Okay, my turn to bold a question so it doesn't get lost:
*What does it mean that dd only has mushy mushy poopies?* (Well, mushy with the occasional severe bout of constipation thrown in.) She's been doing strict SCD for 2 weeks now and while her behavior has been AWESOME, her poopies are still just mush.









Searched on the enzymestuff site but couldn't find the answer.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Ah shoot. Was hoping that last post was going to make it to the top of a new page.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_dalai_mama*
I ask b/c I have not yet begun the SCD diet, but have eliminated sugar and all dairy except kefir and yogurt and have upped my raw greens and kombucha intake for the past week and a half. While I still feel intermitently itchy in all the usual spots (ahem. . .), I am bloated, gassy, and slightly constipated. Is is possible for yeast to begin to die off this simply and quickly?

That is what happened to me as well. I didn't start the diet but cut out all sugar and grains, and I became itchy everywhere....probably in your "ahem" areas as well. Once I started the diet, I was pretty much done w/die-off.

No answer on the spit chain, and no answer on the enzymes--I only know about Houston.

Amy


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Not to ruin the SCD experiment by adding another variable, but you might try lavender essential oil (100% pure, caution about other ingredients) for the "ahem" itchiness. It is a bit stingy so I use a cool cloth with water to remove excess after applying. But it does have antimicrobial properties and has helped in just a couple of applications, from my isolated experience. And it is able to be consumed if one has thrush on their nipples. It also is good for Athlete's feet.

Pat


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

lavender or tea tree oil? Tea tree is a very potent anti-fungal and is great on yeast infections and athletes foot. A few drops in your underwear will do WONDERS for itchiness. IT can be consumes, but I wouldn't recommend it unless you are under the care of an experienced doc. It can also be used on nipples, but I wouldn't with a breastfeeding babe.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_dalai_mama*
Reposting a question about varying positives on spit test.









I googled it, but could only find the most basic, "if your spit forms 'legs", clousdy or sinks" information, and I'm wondering *what the length of the strands and time they take to form indicates* (bolding, not to be impatient, I am humbly greatful for all the wonderful wisdom on this thread







, I just know how busy it gets and want to be sure to be eye catching.







)
I ask b/c I have not yet begun the SCD diet, but have eliminated sugar and all dairy except kefir and yogurt and have upped my raw greens and kombucha intake for the past week and a half. While I still feel intermitently itchy in all the usual spots (ahem. . .), I am bloated, gassy, and slightly constipated. Is is possible for yeast to begin to die off this simply and quickly? My spit test took a while to form legs and they were very short.
Sorry I've got no answers about the enzyme question, I haven't even gotten there yet. In fact, if my dh asks, no one saw me here, I'm packing, right?








Thanks!

As far as I know the yeast test just tells you whether you have yeast problems, it doesn't tell you the severity of the yeast problem.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
So I did the yeast spit test this morning, just for kicks.....I _think_ I had what you ladies describe is a medium positive test: formed strands and sank, but not very defined and not very fast. I have absolutely no symptoms of yeast overgrowth (that I know of), so I really don't know what to do with this information. Anyone have any ideas? I'm kind of at a plateau point with my improvement - skin is still bad, but not painful anymore.

NewMama, I wanted to send some love your way - this is an incredibly difficult diet, especially when you're not even positive that it's applicable to your situation. It's a good cache of info to have in your mind though, in case you get to a place where you think it's appropriate and can figure out coping mechanisms to deal with how the diet makes you feel at first. I really hope the supplements help!

http://www.ei-resource.org/candida.asp This is a good link for yeast info...basically the recommended protol is enzymes w/proteases and cellulases between meals plus a yeast killer (GSE, raw garlic).


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I think I jinxed myself...DD's eczema is coming back and it looks like the goat yogurt is the cause as that's the only thing I've added in the last week. Could it take a week for a reaction to show up? And what do I do now? Do I keep using it and see what happens or is it best to stop if she is reacting to it?

Why can't just ONE PART of this whole process go smoothly? Why does everything have to be so complicated?

ETA: is it possible it could be some sort of die-off reaction? Her eczema flared up when I added enzymes, and I don't know if that was a die-off reaction or what (Enzymedica enzymes, no additives).

\

I'm too lazy to re-type it...anyone know the answer?


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Thanks!
I'd completely forgotten about the tto and lavender and just gotten caught up in getting rid of the systemic candida. Going to pull the oils back out of the box they were just packed it.

Annikate, I remember a poop consistency thread a long time ago, I'll see if I can find it. . .


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
What types of enzymes are in the Betaine (or whatever it was called, forgot already)? I think with yeast the recommendation is to take enzymes with both proteases and cellulase in between meals, so if the one has proteases that would go good with the No Fenol. Plus it is recommended to use a yeast killer, too, like raw garlic or grapefruit seed extract.

Thank you!!!

Is GSE okay while nursing? *goes to Google*


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Just wanted to post that I think I found a source of SCD legal macaroons, at http://zerocarbsjenniesmacaroons.com/products_t.html (not the zero carb ones, the other ones, which just have unsweetened cocount, honey, and egg whites). Mind you, I'd rather they had whole eggs in them for the fat and all, but still, they appear to be SCD legal! I have emailed the owner just in case. The idea of being able to go to my local natural foods coop and buy a sweet treat pre-made is just amazing at this point. Of course, we will have to go very slow, since I have yeast issues, but still!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

We get Jenni's Macaroons at our co-op all the time, all they contain is unsweetened coconut, honey, and egg whites, NOTHING ELSE.

I had a couple today as a matter of fact


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I've never seen a macaroon recipe that had the whole egg. Even in EFLF you just use the egg whites...so these look pretty good!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Jack Newman has a protocol for thrush that involves GSE (for nursing moms.)


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Damn, I feel terrible that I didn't tell you all about the macaroons earlier--I thought you all knew about them







:


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

I took GSE while pregnant, so I assume it's okay while nursing. . .


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
I don't know the answers to your questions; but I do know that ds is genrally dairy free and if he has just a bit, we don't have behavioral changes,. But after consuming it for several days, we do. It appears that there is some sort of threashold to no symptoms and then we 'spill over' when he has had too much.

This is explained very well in the ASD community. The undigested dairy protein peptides produces caseomorphin... a morphine like compound that acts as a stimulant. A little doesn't overwhelm the receptors, but a lot does. Have you tried goat's milk? The proteins are significantly smaller and easier to digest.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CAJen*
I'm nearing the end of my first day on the SCD intro diet and it is kicking my butt. I just took a 3 hour nap that I could not make myself wake up from. A couple of months ago I had to be on a liquid diet for two days to prepare for my laparoscopy, and I wasn't nearly this weak, so something is definitely working. I'm excited! I was a little late getting going on my 24-hour yogurt, but that should be ready tomorrow, if all goes well. In the meantime I've got a ton of Farmer's cheese in the fridge.









that you are excited that it's kicking your butt!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I think I jinxed myself...DD's eczema is coming back and it looks like the goat yogurt is the cause as that's the only thing I've added in the last week. Could it take a week for a reaction to show up? And what do I do now? Do I keep using it and see what happens or is it best to stop if she is reacting to it?

Why can't just ONE PART of this whole process go smoothly? Why does everything have to be so complicated?

ETA: is it possible it could be some sort of die-off reaction? Her eczema flared up when I added enzymes, and I don't know if that was a die-off reaction or what (Enzymedica enzymes, no additives).

This is the hardest thing for me to figure out still... die off vs. reaction!
Stopping and starting again very slowly, as with enzymes, would be the only way I think.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I'm not saying raw/fermented foods aren't important, but I disagree with their conclusion that eating cooked food causes all diseases, and that humans weren't designed to eat cooked food. That's what I meant when I said that Dr. Price's research disproves their conclusion--the people that he studied all (except the Eskimos?) ate cooked foods and were very healthy.

I don't think they are saying eating cooked food in itself causes it?
Eating ALL cooked foods and no raw/fermented at all is the problem like the SAD. And Price's research supports this, b/c native diets included raw/fermented foods daily. We were not designed to eat all cooked food.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I don't think they are saying eating cooked food in itself causes it?
Eating ALL cooked foods and no raw/fermented at all is the problem like the SAD. And Price's research supports this, b/c native diets included raw/fermented foods daily. We were not designed to eat all cooked food.

I got the distinct impression that's what they were saying, but I could be misinterpreting it.

Do you think it would be doing any harm to DD to continue the goat yogurt at the current amount and see what happens? She has only the tiniest bit of eczema on her butt again and her cheeks haven't flared up at all, so if she is reacting it isn't much of a reaction. I was expecting it to keep getting worse but it hasn't. She's also started sleeping better







She's taking longer naps and sleeping through the night again, although she's also having trouble going to sleep at night (taking an hour instead of 15 minutes to go to sleep)--the extra sleep time is definitely a good thing but who knows if the trouble going to sleep is related to the goat yogurt or not. All the sleep changes started happening in the last couple of weeks, and her sleep behavior is inconistent at best, so it's really hard to tell if changes are related to anything.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

caedmyn,

We are continuing to eat things that are causing reactions. In my 4yr old, he is currently reacting to honey, egg whites, and coconut. BUT, he always eats enzymes before consuming these foods especially. Are you able to do enzymes?

I don't feel that they are allergies, but reactions as the food escapes through the holes in his gut. No ana reactions either. So as we heal, we will deal w/these lovely reactions







The poor kitties have gotten good at hiding









Onto an exciting poop story:

I'll recap, as there are so many of us. My 4yr old has had one solid poop in his life (when he was 15m old and we were trying to nightwean). That is it. Well the child has decided that he is going to eat yogurt. He's been doing GOL Primal Defense, but he is now consuming about a quart of yogurt a day. Well, he had a nice, solid, firm poop for the 2nd time.




























I was thinking we have a yeast problem, based on his hx, but whadda you think? Could this be bacterial then? Thoughts?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Reposting because I feel like it got lost in the thread (no answers).







:

I tried to answer it earlier...
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=827


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## Metasequoia (Jun 7, 2005)

Mama's, I have no idea if I even belong here, but I'm scrounging for help. I've been posting like mad about my babies & I having Lyme disease. A friend whose son is autistic told me to get us all on a probiotic now.

We will probably all end up on abx, possibly even my 11 week old son. What are the risks of abx? Every specialist has said LD is transmittable through breastmilk & they say I HAVE to wean. I don't want to wean, it doesn't seem right to me. My 3 yr old Dd is still nursing & I think I gave it to her, her knees hurt & she has a huge fever. I am concerned about the baby, who may be affected by me taking abx & sh*t, I can't even imagine putting a baby this young on abx - could it cause serious long-term gut issues?

I know nothing about gut issues & anything related. Please, if anyone has anything to say about this, please tell me. I am a wreck, crying & can't eat, feeling awful that I may have given this horrible disease to my babies.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
I'll recap, as there are so many of us. My 4yr old has had one solid poop in his life (when he was 15m old and we were trying to nightwean). That is it. Well the child has decided that he is going to eat yogurt. He's been doing GOL Primal Defense, but he is now consuming about a quart of yogurt a day. Well, he had a nice, solid, firm poop for the 2nd time.




























I was thinking we have a yeast problem, based on his hx, but whadda you think? Could this be bacterial then? Thoughts?

Personally I think all people have both yeast and bad bacteria growing. Elaine did too... which is why she referred to them as bad bugs or microbes rather than one or the other. Not that we cannot have dominent one or the other. Or that they cannot be ever changing depending on our diets and the foods they get to eat (the ones that are not broken down properly).

I think the main reason why my guy is still having trouble is that he's got a nasty protein eating one (Proteus). But it seems to me if I up his carbs he doesn't do well either (his prior stool test had Klebsiella, thrives on carbs).

I'm all for "overdosing" on yogurt/probiotics. I really don't think you can take too much, only how much your body can handle in terms of die off reactions.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I got the distinct impression that's what they were saying, but I could be misinterpreting it.

Do you think it would be doing any harm to DD to continue the goat yogurt at the current amount and see what happens? She has only the tiniest bit of eczema on her butt again and her cheeks haven't flared up at all, so if she is reacting it isn't much of a reaction. I was expecting it to keep getting worse but it hasn't. She's also started sleeping better







She's taking longer naps and sleeping through the night again, although she's also having trouble going to sleep at night (taking an hour instead of 15 minutes to go to sleep)--the extra sleep time is definitely a good thing but who knows if the trouble going to sleep is related to the goat yogurt or not. All the sleep changes started happening in the last couple of weeks, and her sleep behavior is inconistent at best, so it's really hard to tell if changes are related to anything.

Maybe I'm basing my impressions of that article on my own beliefs from reading NT/WAP!









You have come across the most difficult decisions that is familiar to me: whether to judge a food as handled well or not. It's very hard to say!! You just gotta go with your intuition. I think taking longer to go to sleep also could be b/c she is actually not way overtired as she used to be too. Like I said before, I think you should stop, see if you note any changes for a time, and start again slowly.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Okay, my turn to bold a question so it doesn't get lost:
*What does it mean that dd only has mushy mushy poopies?* (Well, mushy with the occasional severe bout of constipation thrown in.) She's been doing strict SCD for 2 weeks now and while her behavior has been AWESOME, her poopies are still just mush.









Searched on the enzymestuff site but couldn't find the answer.

Bacteria or yeast or both. Die off or increased growth. Or possibly a food she is not tolerating. Aren't I helpful??









DS **** cannot do apples, the type of sugar in them, sorbitol I think? Mush everytime.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

mama,
I don't know anything about Lyme disease, but how are they sure it is transferred through b'milk?

I would definitely start making some yogurt. A few posts back there was a suggestion for a mama to give antibiotics and yogurt at different times. It has more probiotics than anything you can buy. And no, I don't think the round of abx will do damage that you can't fix.

Sorry you're having to deal with this.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Major depressive disorder: probiotics may be an adjuvant therapy.*

Logan AC, Katzman M.

Nutrition Research Consulting, 50 Yonkers Terrace, 8-J Yonkers, NY 10704, USA. [email protected]

Major depressive disorder (MDD) is an extremely complex and heterogeneous condition. Emerging research suggests that nutritional influences on MDD are currently underestimated. MDD patients have been shown to have elevated levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines, increased oxidative stress, altered gastrointestinal (GI) function, and lowered micronutrient and omega-3 fatty acid status. Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is likely contributing to the limited nutrient absorption in MDD. Stress, a significant factor in MDD, is known to alter GI microflora, lowering levels of lactobacilli and bifidobacterium. Research suggests that bacteria in the GI tract can communicate with the central nervous system, even in the absence of an immune response. Probiotics have the potential to lower systemic inflammatory cytokines, decrease oxidative stress, improve nutritional status, and correct SIBO. The effect of probiotics on systemic inflammatory cytokines and oxidative stress may ultimately lead to increased brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF). It is our contention that probiotics may be an adjuvant to standard care in MDD.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract


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## Metasequoia (Jun 7, 2005)

There is a specialist, Dr. Jones in CT who has treated over 9,000 children for LD. He has witnessed it being transmitted through bm (well, not literally). It is not certain that it will, but the risk is there. I've gotten a lot of slack over the last couple of days on LD sites for saying that I want to continue to bf. The way I see it, after 11 weeks, if I wean (makes me want to cry just typing that) he may already have it & then I'd be depriving him of my perfect (okay, maybe less than perfect) breastmilk.

This is the probiotic my friend recommended http://www.theralac.com/Links.aspx?selection=12

I guess it can't hurt to try & prevent any gut issues by giving this to all of us. She also said to cut out all grains & sugar. It just seems so overwhelming, trying to adapt this new diet & figure out what to do with this probable Lyme outbreak.

Thanks for the hugs mama.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*







mama,
I don't know anything about Lyme disease, but how are they sure it is transferred through b'milk?

I would definitely start making some yogurt. A few posts back there was a suggestion for a mama to give antibiotics and yogurt at different times. It has more probiotics than anything you can buy. And no, I don't think the round of abx will do damage that you can't fix.

Sorry you're having to deal with this.


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## bluets (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *the_dalai_mama*
I took GSE while pregnant, so I assume it's okay while nursing. . .

I've seen some scientific studies that suggest GSE may contain synthetic microbiocides as contaminants. And that these alleged contaminants are endocrine disruptors. It seems controversial enough for me to run far away from GSE for internal use.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation

Remember, GSE falls into the cosmetics classification of "food and drug" so neither the FDA nor any other governmental science agency has examined it for safety.

I have seen one study where they used grapefruit seeds (eat the seed, chew it, ...) to combat bacterial infections with some success. The regimen was 5-6 seeds every 8 hours for 2 weeks.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Metasequoia*
Mama's, I have no idea if I even belong here, but I'm scrounging for help. I've been posting like mad about my babies & I having Lyme disease. A friend whose son is autistic told me to get us all on a probiotic now.

We will probably all end up on abx, possibly even my 11 week old son. What are the risks of abx? Every specialist has said LD is transmittable through breastmilk & they say I HAVE to wean. I don't want to wean, it doesn't seem right to me. My 3 yr old Dd is still nursing & I think I gave it to her, her knees hurt & she has a huge fever. I am concerned about the baby, who may be affected by me taking abx & sh*t, I can't even imagine putting a baby this young on abx - could it cause serious long-term gut issues?

I know nothing about gut issues & anything related. Please, if anyone has anything to say about this, please tell me. I am a wreck, crying & can't eat, feeling awful that I may have given this horrible disease to my babies.

































I'm so sorry mama, what a horrible situation to be in with such a young babe!!! I can say I know a little of how you feel: to know that your health is deeply effecting your child, for the worse. It's a real mindf**k, very humbling.

Yes, antibiotics can be bad, effect the gut and immune system and teeth and a number of things. But so can food and nutrition. Like other mamas here, myself included, I think this can be a wake up call to you to learn as much as you can about how nutrition can effect health and your children.

I know so little about Lyme, but I do know that there are several groups on Yahoo which are good. Ron Schmid has beat Lyme with nutrition: www.drrons.com. I know of him from www.westonaprice.org.

The best and strongest probiotics are cultured foods: 24 hr yogurt, kefir, fermented veggies, Kombucha. Anyone facing immune or digestive system problems (or anyone in this chemical laden world for that matter!) would do well to have them become a way of life.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I just simply cannot believe weaning is the answer either... keep searching.

Giving a baby inferior food and immune support (by weaning onto something other than bm) at a time when they most need it doesn't make sense to me.

Breastmilk seals up the gut against infection. Contains immunoglobulins, macrophages as well as easily aborbed nutrition.

Keep checking around. See if the user Momtezuma Tuatara has addressed this before. Post in Nutrition/Immunology 101 thread in Vaccinations forum.

I just don't think most doctors know about the crucial nature of BM.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

And just because you are exposed to a virus or bacteria doesn't mean the body automatically comes down with it. The research of Metchnikoff and Pettenkofer showed that people with strong immune systems could drink cholera or other bacterium and not get sick. (Metchnikoff is well known for "discovering" probiotics.)

It's not just about what you are exposed to, but the ability your body has to fight it off.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I have an acquaintance (in CT) that transmitted Lyme through BM to her child. She was pretty bad off and treated it with TCM both for her and the babe if I remember correctly. I know she used TCM.

SHe refused to wean (your instincts are right on!) and dealt with it fine. IT took awhile to get through, but she did. THere are many ways to treat Lyme-conventional meds aren't the only way. We have treated homeopathically (except for the last time dh got bitten-but that's because he didn't tell me for over a week







: ) THen our DhT put him on antibiotics becasue it is the fastest way (and he wasn't nursing or pregnant







) BUt we could have gone another route....so there is hope. Hugs!

PS-Dr. Ron is in CT too. Don't know where you are...but you mentioned the good ol' Nutmeg state!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Bacteria or yeast or both. Die off or increased growth. Or possibly a food she is not tolerating. Aren't I helpful??








Gee, thanks a lot.








Guess I'll step up the enzymes & see. Last time I gave her No Fenol btw. meals (the tiniest bit) & she got severely constipated. (It was either the enzymes or milk.)


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## Metasequoia (Jun 7, 2005)

What's "TCM?" I'm gonna pm you my personal email addy, any chance you could pass it on to your friend? I am in a crunch to come up with a plan of action.

Thank you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I have an acquaintance (in CT) that transmitted Lyme through BM to her child. She was pretty bad off and treated it with TCM both for her and the babe if I remember correctly. I know she used TCM.

SHe refused to wean (your instincts are right on!) and dealt with it fine. IT took awhile to get through, but she did. THere are many ways to treat Lyme-conventional meds aren't the only way. We have treated homeopathically (except for the last time dh got bitten-but that's because he didn't tell me for over a week







: ) THen our DhT put him on antibiotics becasue it is the fastest way (and he wasn't nursing or pregnant







) BUt we could have gone another route....so there is hope. Hugs!

PS-Dr. Ron is in CT too. Don't know where you are...but you mentioned the good ol' Nutmeg state!


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

TCM - traditional chinese medicine


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
This is explained very well in the ASD community. The undigested dairy protein peptides produces caseomorphin... a morphine like compound that acts as a stimulant. A little doesn't overwhelm the receptors, but a lot does. Have you tried goat's milk? The proteins are significantly smaller and easier to digest.

Yes, we probably would fit somewhere on the spectrum. I say we, because it seems all three dh, ds and I are *unique*.









We have tried goat's milk. Same thing. And soy. Do you have a comprehensive link about ASD from a nutritional pov? We don't do behavioral modification. We try to address underlying issues and accomodate the environment to meet our needs. I am reading voraciously about enzymes, No Fenol and yeast. I don't know of any yeast issues per se, but I am intrigued. Our diet/behavioral issues have been substantially improved on the Feingold diet for about 3-4 years. But, we are not gluten or dairy purest; but we avoid them 90% of the time.

We have had a lot of dental issues with ds and I just read about enamel issues and ceilac/digestive associations also.

Thanks for the suggestion about the goat's milk. Interestingly, I had buffalo milk cheese (mozerella) several times this week without an issue. We use rice milk for baking. We started Mg/Ca "Milq" supplements (all three) and am looking into MT's green glop.









I am not fermenting yeast yet. But, you all are prodding me along toward that direction. Ds is pretty particular about his tastebuds. And dh thinks I am a flake already.

Pat


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## Metasequoia (Jun 7, 2005)

I emailed Dr. Ron earlier today, hopefully he'll respond soon.

Dd2 (still nursing) has a 104.3 fever & complained of knee pain this morning, I really think I should just get her on abx & me too. I've heard you have to treat the co-infections too or the Lyme won't go away.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Metasequoia,

What about breast milk from a Milk Bank? You need a prescription, I believe. But I'd be hard put to quit nursing an infant. Aren't your own antibodies still benefiting the baby even with exposure? The same thing seems to occur with chicken pox?? Babies are protected by the mother's immune system, even with exposure or disease. I'd think that Momtezuma T could help in the vaccine forum: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...97#post5228997

I know that the medical profession creates a sense of urgency. But, often the treatment can be deferred for a week or so to collect your data and make a plan. Plenty of people have Lime Disease undetected for periods of time. And the human milk is best, imo, even with our environmental toxins to boot.

Check the home page for Mothering.com for their breastfeeding expert or the nutrition or medical resources listed there.

Oh, and I'd see a professional homeopathist ASAP. I trust that route more than medical as a first step.

Pat


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## golon (May 25, 2006)

Hi Firefaery,I m a new one to this forum ,just read one of ur posts about the relation between gut and depression and Id like to know more because ive been suffering from recurring depression for years now,I wonder if u can help me find some good articles?I googled it but i couldnt find enough
thanx


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## Metasequoia (Jun 7, 2005)

Momtezuma didn't know much about it, but thanks.

Lyme is a bacteria & has many co-infections that go along with it - all of it can pass through the breastmilk. So I don't see how I could provide protection, but I am still an advocate of bfing.

If I knew I had it for sure & I knew he did not have it, I'd wean, but no test can give either answer, they're just too unreliable.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *golon*
Hi Firefaery,I m a new one to this forum ,just read one of ur posts about the relation between gut and depression and Id like to know more because ive been suffering from recurring depression for years now,I wonder if u can help me find some good articles?I googled it but i couldnt find enough
thanx

JaneS just sent me this link today.

edited: LOL. Jane posted it.
*This* group needs its own subforum.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Metasequoia -- there is a yahoo group called "native nutrition" that has someone who posts a lot about Lyme Disease.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I had a lime disease scare when my dd was 8 months old. My dr wanted me to wean. I went to my chiro and he told me to drink lime juice in water several times a day and I think it was take milk thistle. Ugh. I just can't remember and I deleted it from my palm pilot. I would start with an alternative practitioner that you trust. I know he did those things as a preventative but said that if I came down with symptoms to see him before taking any abx for it. The one most commonly perscribed isn't a good idea while bfing (it can discolor your nurslings teeth) but I did find that there are others that are safe while bfing.
I wish I had more info. Either my chiro's protocol worked or I wasn't exposed to begin with. Either way I didn't have to take abx for it.

I'm from CT and I know how horrible untreated Lyme can be. I also know that the test for it is unreliable. I hope you get some answers really soon. Weaning wasn't an option for us. At 8 months my dd was barely eating any solids and never took my bm from anything but my bbs. I was freaking out to say the least and had figured out how to fly in my best friend to serve as partial wet nurse if I had to go on abx. (I had very few local lactating friends at the time).


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

I am STILL waiting on BTVC (I ordered it May 10th!) so still not doing SCD. But have been off grains until this weekend, when I caved. OMG, I felt it right away. At least I know that I am on the right track. Also started taking the Wobenzyme. Don't know if it that or from eating the grains that I feel







Yet hungry at the same time.









Am curious on people's take on this on coconut oil, etc by Dr Fuhrman (who wrote E2L). He discusses here in the comments http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives...ent-foods.html
It isn't so much about who wrote it, but more about the viewpoint. I stumbled upon it last night and just felt like this







Why does all of this have to be so hard????

I keep wavering from just staying on doing what I am doing (yogurt, kefir, fermented stuff, enzymes, no grains or sugar) or go full fledge SCD (whenever I get the blasted book!). I have seen improvement, but clearly much more needs to happen.


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

well I havent officially started until june 1, but this weekend I have drastically cut back on how much grains I have eaten after the horrible night after I ate pasta. I can already tell a difference with my dd. every day she had been having very many runny diapers. after cutting way back on my grains (to once a day) and only having half a piece of bread for my sandwich today, she has only had one poopy diaper and it wasnt nearly as runny. I really need to get some nuts in the house to make nut flour to make some bread, but wont be able to get to the store tomorrow.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Moonshine-it's one of the major things I disagree with when it comes to dear old Dr. Fuhrman. I believe that the body does need saturated fats (in fact it's one of Jennifer's ONLY objections to his theories and she eats CO every day! In fact just today I saw a ton go into her smoothie.)

For Depression: I'm not huge on saving links. I'm trying to get better. I started by reading Enzymes for Autism and Othe Neurological Conditions. IT made sense because my IBCLC had been telling me basically the same thing in different words, as had my DhT. Then I found several posts by other mamas here and along the way picked up more info. Gale Force is hands down your best asset here. Read everything she writes! I also like the Mood Cure and Depression Free for Life.

Metasequoia-I pm'd you. I don't have an email address, she's not a friend just an acquaintance and I happen to know her story. I'll do what I can to track down her info. Hopefully you'll also hear from Dr. Ron. It is not a thing you want to fool around with-that's for sure.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Well, if you and Jennifer say it is ok...







Actually, I laid awake in bed thinking about, rather upset, at 2am no less.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Metasequoia- FWIW here's how we deal with it in the beginning stages. We have a DhT that advises us though. Oh-interestingly enough Dr. Tobin is in CT as well! Here's an excerpt:

"Several months ago, I came across some arresting information about a potential homeopathic treatment for Lyme called Ledum (pronounced with a long "e", i.e., Leedum). Although the original source that I read was not primarily emphasizing humans, but animals (as this was a treatment of a homeopathic veterinarian doc), it still had some significant implications for human treatment.

What the Doc had written was consistent with my understanding of lyme, and it was then worth investigating this treatment for myself, which I did. In short, while the Ledum was not a "magic bullet", it was a significant benefit, and went a significant way to cure some of my symptoms. I highly recommend that this area of potential treatment be investigated by anyone with lyme symptoms.

I am printing below first the letter from Dr. Tobin, and then after it, a discussion of my own experience with the Ledum.

Understand, though, as you read through this information, that homeopathic treatments are very patient-specific. In other words, what may work spectacularly for one, may do nothing at all for another. Ah, lyme. Even so, for the numbers that it may help, it's worth reviewing. In the end, if you're considering this or other homeopathic treatments, a homeopathic doc wouldn't hurt to help pinpoint and resolve the individual condition..*

*

Lyme Disease and Homeopathy
by Stephen Tobin, DVM

As a holistic veterinarian, I have treated several hundred cases of Lyme disease in the past five years. After trying various homeopathic preparations with only limited success, I found that Ledum in a 1M potency is about as close as you can get to a specific cure. I have use it in dogs, cats, and horses, and it does not seem to matter whether it is a recent infection, a year old, treated or untreated --- they all respond curatively, I have not had a single case that did not improve. The conventional treatment for Lyme Disease is a course of antibiotics, usually amoxicillin or doxycycline. This works quite well in most cases of recent infection, but hardly at all in long-standing cases.

Homeopathic Treatment Effective
While I do not treat human beings, some of my clients with animals suffering from Lyme disease have taken Ledum 1M for their own lyme disease infections, after seeing the positive result with their animals. The feedback I have gotten is all positive. I have told numerous naturopaths and homeopathic MDs about Ledum. One homeopathic MD runs titers on all his Lyme disease patients, both before and after treatment with Ledum, and has found that there is a consistent decline in the titer after Ledum. I myself seldom run titers, which is a measure of antibody levels, as the disease is so easily recognizable. Usually the dog has been limping for one or two days on one of the front legs, followed by an aversion to moving at all, as all the joints now hurt. There is usually fever and loss of appetite. For treatment, I give one pellet of Ledum 1M three times a day for three days. All signs of the disease are gone by the end of three days, often even by the end of the first day.

Homeopathy for Prevention
I have been using Borrelia burgdorferi 60x nosode, a homeopathic preparation, as a preventative for Lyme disease in dogs. I give one oral dose daily for one week, then one dose a week for one month, then one dose every six months. In the past four years, I have had only two dogs our of over five hundred on this regimen contract Lyme disease; both cases readily cleared with Ledum.
Webmaster's note: While I include the above information for the purposes of complete information, Bb 60x nosode is a preparation that includes live spirochete fragments. Besides the fact that this is unavailable except to licensed professionals, it is very important to understand that the taking of this preparation can be very dangerous to anyone with a lyme condition (and very possibly anyone). The introduction into a system of more spirochetes has the very strong possibility of flaring an underlying condition. (Also note that the Bb nosode is a very different product from the homeopathic preparation, Ledum, which carries no known risk.)

Lyme Vaccine Ineffective
While there is a canine vaccine for Lyme disease, I haven't found it very effective. One vet who uses it extensively told me she feels it provides protection for about a third of the dogs receiving it. I have seen a number of Lyme disease cases in dogs starting five to six weeks after vaccination (these also resolve with Ledum.)

*

My experiences:

After about a two month trial now, I have found the Ledum to be significantly helpful, although, as I had stated earlier, not a magic-bullet cure. There are implications with the dosage strengths, and I probably mis-took it initially. Even so the effects were almost instantaneous (15 minutes) at times, and the cost is relatively cheap (about $8.50, more or less).

The whole issue has caused me to need to begin to understand the entire healing "science" of homeopathy - something I'd not at all ever investigated before. There are some significant things to consider: It's not a "left field" science (although many today might believe so) - one of the five major traditional teaching hospitals in Philadelphia was founded on the principle of (and bears the name of the man - Hahnemann - who pioneered much of..) homeopathy. It seems that there are two "schools" of thought regarding medical healing: One is to give a treatment that will go to work against whatever is the problem. Antibiotics or antibacterials are classic examples. Homeopathy, on the other hand, works on the principle that similar cures, and treatment consists of giving something like the condition with the purpose of inspiring the body's own defense/repair mechanisms to respond, curing the original condition. Yes, all too confusing yet to me, too, but there you have it. Different, certainly; but not necessarily unsound.

It seems that dosage strengths are also critical ...to match most precisely the level of infection. Furthermore, taking too high of a dose will tend to render the less strong ones less effective. (This was the case for me.) One philosophy is to begin with a low dosage, and gradually work your way to the stronger ones. On this principle, this is wise advice.

In my case, I went to the local health food store and the local homeopathic pharmacy (we have one, amazingly enough - the local health food stores can help with this recommendation, sometimes.). Anyway, neither one had the 1M potency that Dr. Tobin had discussed. Only the much weaker 30c (or 30k). So I bought that one. Within ten minutes of taking it, I got hot (body temperature-wise). Now, one of the effects of the lyme for me is a lower metabolism and body temperature. So this was good news. Also, I occassionally had the reaction within minutes of taking the Ledum (30c) of a kind of like "waking up" - a "Where am I? And how did I get here?" type of reaction. This was significant to me in that the Ledum, in these cases, had a noticeable affect of restoring brain function.

As for doses (and the mistakes I made): I first started out with the 30c because I couldn't find the 1M. I then called Dolisos (below) to mail order the 1M, but they were out of it. I ordered the 10M instead. Mistake. Too strong isn't necessarily better. (It doesn't harm you, but it doesn't do any good.) Further, taking a strong dose will require you to wait a few weeks before the weaker ones will be effective. Oh well. Finally, I took the 1M, and had some positive effects from it. Even so, not so significant as the 30c for me, but this might perhaps have been because of the effects of taking the 10M. If I had it to do over again, this is how I'd pursue it (and I've heard that some good docs are prescribing it this way): Start with a low dose. (30c or even lower) Gradually "work" your way up the stronger doses - up through 200k, and then eventually the 1M. If you find a dose that particularly seems to work for you, "camp" there for awhile.

*

Here's one other good piece of news with homeopathic treatments: It's largely understood that whatever the homeopathic treatment, it will either work or not work within three days. This is good news in a community that commonly spends large amounts on treatments or supplements that will also commonly require several months to begin to work. And at $8.50, it's affordable to most everyone. (And the price is the same regardless of the strength.) Below are listed some sources for Ledum as they were recommended to me:

First of all, inquire of your local health food store is there is a homeopathic pharmacy in your area. The health food store themselves will also commonly carry a 30c strength. (Not a bad way to start.)

Mail order companies include:
Dolisos, located in Nevada. (1-800-Dolisos)
Hahnemann Laboratories, Inc., 1940 Fourth St., San Rafael, CA 94901, (888) 427-6422.

Webmaster's note: I recently got the following email from Michael Quinn of Hahnemann Labs. What he says contains a great deal of wisdom concerning Ledum and homeopathics in general, so I thought I'd include the entire comment here for your reading.

"Thank you for listing us. We now have a web site with secure online ordering at www.Hahnemannlabs.com Our Ledum 1M is $14.95 for a 1g vial. Please caution that taking too often could exacerbate symptoms or even produce new symptoms. A 1M is a sharp tool, and must be handled with respect and care. We generally require a practition's prescription in order to sell 200c, 1M, and 10M potencies. The uneven response to Ledum 1M is probably due to the fundamental nature of homeopathic medicines, which is that they are patient specific more often than disease specific. There is such a great need for help in Lyme Disease that we will sell a 1M to the public with the caution that they should not repeat it after the first three days without consulting with a homeopathic practitioner."
--Michael Quinn, President and Chief Pharmacist of Hahnemann Laboratories, Inc.

Merz Apothecary, Chicago. Boiron Ledum single dose 200 pellets for $4.35 to $6.95
depending on strength. 1-800-252-0275

Webmaster's note: Note the new link to Merz's website

www.equilite.com, Browse catalog-homeopathics, 250 pellets, $5.00
www.1health.com Search Ledum. 250 pellets, $5.00
(Just for comparison's sake, I'm told that Dr. Tobin makes his own Ledum, $15 per dose, and sells only to licensed MD's and Vets.)

*

(As you can see, much of this list gives you the idea that it's probably also readily available in your neighborhood. If I've missed any distributors that you believe would be helpful here, contact me.)

Finally, as I have long wanted to have a way for readers to put their feedback here - either the successes or non-successes that they've had with the Ledum (and other treatments) - I've finally put up a "Discussion" page. Any information that you leave there concerning your experiences would be very helpful to others."


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Sorry, Ladies! This was supposed to be a PM.

Moonshine-yes, we are the final authorities! Ask her for more info on vegsource.


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## Metasequoia (Jun 7, 2005)

Thank you firefaery! I will share this with my family doc.homeopath!!!

Off to get some Ledum NOW!







Wonder if I can give that to the baby? I'll ask my doc.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

IT won't hurt the baby, it just wouldn't have any effect at all. That's the worst that can happen with this modality at all which is why I love it. It would definitely be better to use a homeopath in this instance. Sounds like you have one? Good luck!


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
lavender or tea tree oil? Tea tree is a very potent anti-fungal and is great on yeast infections and athletes foot. A few drops in your underwear will do WONDERS for itchiness. IT can be consumes, but I wouldn't recommend it unless you are under the care of an experienced doc. It can also be used on nipples, but I wouldn't with a breastfeeding babe.

I don't know, maybe I have the wrong kind but tto is not working for me. I think Mary Enig and Sally Fallon recommend lavender oil mixed with CO? Correct me if I'm wrong. I think I'll try that combo... for now only yogurt works to take away the itchyness for a while but can't get rid of this stinkin' yeast.

As for the spit test, I started this whole diet in December when I had a mild white tongue and the spit started forming legs after about 10 minutes. Now it's worse. It gets cloudy and sinks and my tongue is very white in the morning. I wonder why it got so much worse instead of better?


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

I put in a request to make this thread into a proper subforum.

Here


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I don't know, maybe I have the wrong kind but tto is not working for me. I think Mary Enig and Sally Fallon recommend lavender oil mixed with CO? Correct me if I'm wrong. I think I'll try that combo... for now only yogurt works to take away the itchyness for a while but can't get rid of this stinkin' yeast.

As an aside, we just used CO and lavender for a horrible skin wound on a cat (yes, this would count as animal research) as it looked yeasty and it did help. (the wound is a long story....we are helping, not experimenting....well not any more than I do on my family with all this stuff. )

Quote:

As for the spit test, I started this whole diet in December when I had a mild white tongue and the spit started forming legs after about 10 minutes. Now it's worse. It gets cloudy and sinks and my tongue is very white in the morning. I wonder why it got so much worse instead of better?
Stress/cortisol hormones increase yeast production. Any stress in your life?







:

Pat


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## quelindo (May 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Moonshine-it's one of the major things I disagree with when it comes to dear old Dr. Fuhrman. I believe that the body does need saturated fats (in fact it's one of Jennifer's ONLY objections to his theories and she eats CO every day! In fact just today I saw a ton go into her smoothie.)

Who is Jennifer?


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
As an aside, we just used CO and lavender for a horrible skin wound on a cat (yes, this would count as animal research) as it looked yeasty and it did help. (the wound is a long story....we are helping, not experimenting....well not any more than I do on my family with all this stuff. )

Stress/cortisol hormones increase yeast production. Any stress in your life?







:

Pat

Thanks for the input, I need to get some lavender oil...

No stress here....
I forgot to add that I had the perfect BM before I started dieting. Now I'm slightly constipated although I still have 1-2 BM-s a day.
So I don't know why things got worse instead of better. Can the die-off last 6 months or more?


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

For an SCD-er tentatively starting nut butters, which is better to start with: Almond or pecan butter? I know we _just_ talked about this, but I can't find it....

Doing fine on the goat yogurt, just tried some raw goat cheese last night







: Any acne mamas have good luck on nut butters yet? Ive gone off CO for a little while while I determine if that was a cause of some reaction I was having.....Hoping to get back on it soon.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Pecan - almond can be more difficult to digest.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Yes, we probably would fit somewhere on the spectrum. I say we, because it seems all three dh, ds and I are *unique*.









We have tried goat's milk. Same thing. And soy. Do you have a comprehensive link about ASD from a nutritional pov? We don't do behavioral modification. We try to address underlying issues and accomodate the environment to meet our needs. I am reading voraciously about enzymes, No Fenol and yeast. I don't know of any yeast issues per se, but I am intrigued. Our diet/behavioral issues have been substantially improved on the Feingold diet for about 3-4 years. But, we are not gluten or dairy purest; but we avoid them 90% of the time.

We have had a lot of dental issues with ds and I just read about enamel issues and ceilac/digestive associations also.

Thanks for the suggestion about the goat's milk. Interestingly, I had buffalo milk cheese (mozerella) several times this week without an issue. We use rice milk for baking. We started Mg/Ca "Milq" supplements (all three) and am looking into MT's green glop.









I am not fermenting yeast yet. But, you all are prodding me along toward that direction. Ds is pretty particular about his tastebuds. And dh thinks I am a flake already.

Pat

From my perspective now I don't think ASD is solely a neurological disorder. There are digestive and nutritional components that I now think cause the neurological symptoms. I would say the best view to start with would be Karen DeFelice's book: www.enzymestuff.com

But as far as nutritional views on ASD they are all over the place. "What Causes Autism" thread in Vacc. is an interesting one.

I think dental is solely nutritional (obviously celiac can effect), there is a thread in Dental I started "Curing Cavities with Nutrition", the last page has more references to other things like magnesium and vitamin C.

I think sheep and buffalo are similar to goat, more easily digested proteins, not sure.

Fermenting yeast? you mean yogurt?









Join the company of other flakes and be proud!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Am curious on people's take on this on coconut oil, etc by Dr Fuhrman (who wrote E2L). He discusses here in the comments http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives...ent-foods.html
It isn't so much about who wrote it, but more about the viewpoint. I stumbled upon it last night and just felt like this







Why does all of this have to be so hard????

Except to me it is all about who wrote it. I think Dr. Mary Enig of WAPF has enormous integrity. She has been studying saturated fats and coconut oil for years and has absolutely no financial interest in it. If she says the studies on coconut oil were hydrogenated (and therefore stripped of the essential fatty acids) and that is why they showed negative effects, I believe her.

Beyond that, that is why I've placed so much weight on research into native diets. The modern scientists can argue all they want and confuse the living heck out of anyone. Traditional diets have been proven healthy.

Maybe you can follow her footnotes:
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyour...conut_oil.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I forgot to add that I had the perfect BM before I started dieting. Now I'm slightly constipated although I still have 1-2 BM-s a day.
So I don't know why things got worse instead of better. Can the die-off last 6 months or more?

I can't tell you why the diet isn't working for you b/c I still haven't figured out why it's not working for DS!

Are you eating fruit that you might not be digesting fully? You might try going back to all cooked and no raw.

How much yogurt are you eating, could you step that up?

Did you say you recently started enzymes, that should help.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Jane,

Thanks for the link and the suggestions.

Pat


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

well I went in for my dds 6 month check today. I was discussing with the doctor the mucous in her stools. He asked what she had tried so far with solids. I told him bananas, avacado, rice cereal, and sweet potatoes. He said give it a few weeks and try a different grain, like oatmeal. He seemed to think that the mucous is not something to be conserned about







:
I think I'll go with my plan for now.

For the past two weeks I have noticed blood in my stools. it would happen one day and then not for a few, then back again. Could this be because of how Im digesting my foods? Im going back to the doctor on friday about this but since its the same doctor who knows what he'll tell me


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I can't tell you why the diet isn't working for you b/c I still haven't figured out why it's not working for DS!

Are you eating fruit that you might not be digesting fully? You might try going back to all cooked and no raw.

How much yogurt are you eating, could you step that up?

Did you say you recently started enzymes, that should help.


I eat about a cup of yogurt every day, maybe I should eat more? I would have to make it every day....
The enzymes are helping with digestion- less gas and bloating, almost nothing but I think they are contributing to constipation.
All the fruit I eat is avocados and bananas...
Maybe I'll try goat milk for yogurt instead of cow's.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Memory Maker*
well I went in for my dds 6 month check today. I was discussing with the doctor the mucous in her stools. He asked what she had tried so far with solids. I told him bananas, avacado, rice cereal, and sweet potatoes. He said give it a few weeks and try a different grain, like oatmeal. He seemed to think that the mucous is not something to be conserned about







:
I think I'll go with my plan for now.
Same thing happened at my peds office. DD had green, mucousy stools (which I knew were a sign of some kind of intolerance) and he told me she probably had a little virus.









I'd be careful about sweet potatoes though. Why don't you cut that and the rice cereal out and see what happens?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *EBG*
I eat about a cup of yogurt every day, maybe I should eat more? I would have to make it every day....
The enzymes are helping with digestion- less gas and bloating, almost nothing but I think they are contributing to constipation.
Same thing happened to me. I also found that I had to slowly increase the amount of yogurt I made at a time. Now I use a gallon of milk at a time and it lasts about a week 1/2 with all of us eating it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
When we have children we either are woken to our past to help us heal, or we are oblivious to the pain and we inflict it on our children.

That is just so devastatingly correct. I guess I'm glad I'm awake.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *memory maker*
well I went in for my dds 6 month check today. I was discussing with the doctor the mucous in her stools. He asked what she had tried so far with solids. I told him bananas, avacado, rice cereal, and sweet potatoes. He said give it a few weeks and try a different grain, like oatmeal. He seemed to think that the mucous is not something to be conserned about







:

Well since most MD's don't recognized intestinal flora problems anything that would suggest the issue can't exist either...









(although there is now a great deal of body of research on SIBO, Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth in the mainstream literature. However, most doctors aren't up on latest research, they practice what they've learned 10,20,30 years ago in med school or what drug co's tell them).

Blood in your stool see here: http://www.enzymestuff.com/rtstools.htm








Sorry I'm ranting in this post!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I eat about a cup of yogurt every day, maybe I should eat more? I would have to make it every day....
The enzymes are helping with digestion- less gas and bloating, almost nothing but I think they are contributing to constipation.
All the fruit I eat is avocados and bananas...
Maybe I'll try goat milk for yogurt instead of cow's.

In my experience the progression from diarrhea to normal always includes a stop at constipation. The intestinal flora is changing and trying to regulate, it's going to take a while. I'd definately up your yogurt consumption.


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## sebrinaw (Jan 28, 2002)

Hi everyone!!! I have been lurking here for a while now and I think I may be ready to take the plunge. We have been following a NT type diet since January of this year. My kids and myself have some skin issues that need to be addresses. For me it's acne and for my older son it's an ezema looking rash around his mouth. My youngest son has some weird little white "pimple" on his forhead. I am wondering if anyone has any advise for me on where to find info (beside here) and where to start. I honestly have no idea what to feed my kids. They are carb addicts. Bread and pasta are their faves








Sebrina


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I'd be careful about sweet potatoes though. Why don't you cut that and the rice cereal out and see what happens?

Ive cut out all solids for her for now and she is back to just breast milk. I did notice that sweet potatoes are not SCD friendly (after we tried them)

I have been reading about eating for your blood type. I dont know how accurate it is, but I am type O which says I should not eat any grains. (which makes since why I feel like crap when I do) Type Os are big meat eaters (which also explains why I felt like crap for the 6 months I was veggie) My dd2 is also type O which would make me think that is why she cant tolerate the grains that I eat and that she has eaten. Anyone know of any good research to know if there is truth to the blood type diet? Most of what I can eat is similar to SCD but goes on to tell me more fruits and veggies that can be harmful (but most I can eat)z


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

My Dr is a big promoter of the blood type diet. I personally don't think it has much merrit. I couldn't do scd on it for one. We tried it but it didn't do much for us and the science on it is pretty light. Thats my opinion on it. I know I've done some research but I can't put my finger on it for you.


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## Threefold (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebrinaw*
Hi everyone!!! I have been lurking here for a while now and I think I may be ready to take the plunge. We have been following a NT type diet since January of this year. My kids and myself have some skin issues that need to be addresses. For me it's acne and for my older son it's an ezema looking rash around his mouth. My youngest son has some weird little white "pimple" on his forhead. I am wondering if anyone has any advise for me on where to find info (beside here) and where to start. I honestly have no idea what to feed my kids. They are carb addicts. Bread and pasta are their faves








Sebrina

Hi Sebrina,
There is a sticky at the top of this forum which has many great resources complied by JaneS. It's a good place to start, but be prepared to







: at all the information there is!
My oldest is also a carb addict, and I'm just taking baby steps to move him away from it.

I drank my first smoothie (not scd legal, but chock full of the raw greens we all seem to be able to handle right now) made with my homemade kefir this morning! Ds turned his nose up at it, but dd slammed hers and asked for more


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

It's interesting, there is some science behind the diet, but not nearly enough to tell a bunch of people to follow it. It's more like an interesting old wives tale...I believe that cultures have been far too intermingled to place much importance on it. Most every book I've read on nutrition that I've liked has had problems with it.

That said, my ND will frequently ask people what their type is after they have started to regain health and finds that often it does parallel the advice given by the diet. Apparently not enough to recommend it though!


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
That is just so devastatingly correct. I guess I'm glad I'm awake.

Sometimes I am on autopilot and miss my opportunities for awareness and pass on some of the pain of the past without intention. Mindfullness is a struggle for me. Fortunately, I am "awake" most of the time. I find that I get absorbed in the details and miss the big picture too often though. Balance is a life long journey of self-awareness.

Pat


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## sebrinaw (Jan 28, 2002)

Well I just got back from shopping. What do you all think about allowing rice for now? Just in the form of rice cakes. My kids love them and I know it would be a quick and easy lunch to give them plain rice cakes with nut butters. I also plan on adding a smoothie for us every day with organic whole un-homegenized cow milk yogurt, applesauce, honey and blueberries. We like eggs and I have a feeling we will be eating alot of those. Tongiht for dinner we are going to have a meat crusted pizza. I already had a chicken boiling for some chicken soup. I think just cutting out gluten is going to help my kiddos (and me). We already don't so any refined sugars (just honey, maple syrup and rapadura in very small amounts) Speaking of gluten, has anyone hear tried gluten free? It seems like it would be a bit easier then the SCD.
Sebrina


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I've been gluten-free for years. For my 4 yr old and later for myself. Regardless, I have continued to have reaction upon reaction even when I know I have not consumed gluten.

After 2 m on this diet, I had one reaction and that was because I consumed a burdock root tincture, which was made w/grain alcohol.

While GF I consumed a lot of tapioca starch, potato flour, xantham gum, arrowroot, etc. I really don't consider this to be better than eating processed gluten food. Its just not natural, at least, imnsho.

What is different now is that I'm actually healing. Not just putting a lil' butterfly bandage on a huge gaping wound, yk?

Once I heal, I think I'll be able to go back to gluten, all NT style, sourdough bread and such, and not in quanitites that interfere w/my consumption of real food, veggies, meats/fish, and fruits.

My 2 cents.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

I agree with you 100%. It seems a lot of us are on this same journey--a journey within a journey....


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

We are gluten free. The SCD healed us, whereas the GF diet allowed us to sort of maintain. SCD is gluten free, so it was a fine transition. Unfortunately most gluten free stuff out there is junky. All SCD recipes are whole natural foods. As Amy said, doing gluten free (at least for us) meant substitutions with other grains that were generally not whole.

My friend told me when ds was born that our children were sent here to teach us to heal and until we got the lesson it would keep turning up again and again until we were forced to pay attention. She was adamant about it, but I ignored her. Until dd was born with issues that mirrored mine and were far more severe than ds's. It's a concept called family soul work-the youngest is the greatest teacher. OF course there is science behind it (I passed on crappier stores because I didn't heal) but there is far more to it that the physical. I'm glad we have all found this path. I plan on paying ver close attention! MY dd is a little savior. SHe has healed me, my brother and my mother-and helped heal my sister and her baby. It's really amazing what these little souls can do.


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## sebrinaw (Jan 28, 2002)

Aww firefaery, thats beautiful!

I agree that alot of GF foods seem very junky. I was actually more wondering about rice? Brown rice actually. It seems to me to pretty healthy???

Sebrina


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebrinaw*
Aww firefaery, thats beautiful!

I agree that alot of GF foods seem very junky. I was actually more wondering about rice? Brown rice actually. It seems to me to pretty healthy???

Sebrina

I was wondering about the rice too. My kids also love rice cakes and are carb junkies. I think I could survive if we could at least do that. I know brown rice isn't SCD legal but some people do well w/ different tweaks on the diet. I guess the best thing is to go strict in the beginning and then add them in. The other way would be to just use them to start and see if there is still improvement despite eating them. My problem is I am not sure what I am really looking for in terms of improvement. I get so







: w/ all this that I forget what is wrong with us, lol.


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## sebrinaw (Jan 28, 2002)

Well one thing I have been reading is about the consistancy of the stools. My kids have always had soft, mushy stools. When we did cloth diapers I could never just shake it out like my friends did. It was always a mushy, sticky mess, lol. So I am hoping for improvement there. I would like to at least see formed stools. I am also really hoping for an improvement in temper flareups-for all of us. We seem to have short fuses in the house, but in particular myself and my middle son. Also looking for improvement in skin. Like the pp said it would be alot easier if I could use brown rice mainly in the form of rice cakes. I have some seriously picky eaters here, lol. I was hoping to do this gradually instead of cold turkey. I Understand that some people do it that way.
Sebrina


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
I've been gluten-free for years. For my 4 yr old and later for myself. Regardless, I have continued to have reaction upon reaction even when I know I have not consumed gluten.

After 2 m on this diet, I had one reaction and that was because I consumed a burdock root tincture, which was made w/grain alcohol.

While GF I consumed a lot of tapioca starch, potato flour, xantham gum, arrowroot, etc. I really don't consider this to be better than eating processed gluten food. Its just not natural, at least, imnsho.

What is different now is that I'm actually healing. Not just putting a lil' butterfly bandage on a huge gaping wound, yk?

Once I heal, I think I'll be able to go back to gluten, all NT style, sourdough bread and such, and not in quanitites that interfere w/my consumption of real food, veggies, meats/fish, and fruits.

My 2 cents.

This gives me great hope!!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
My friend told me when ds was born that our children were sent here to teach us to heal and until we got the lesson it would keep turning up again and again until we were forced to pay attention. She was adamant about it, but I ignored her. Until dd was born with issues that mirrored mine and were far more severe than ds's. It's a concept called family soul work-the youngest is the greatest teacher. OF course there is science behind it (I passed on crappier stores because I didn't heal) but there is far more to it that the physical. I'm glad we have all found this path. I plan on paying ver close attention! MY dd is a little savior. SHe has healed me, my brother and my mother-and helped heal my sister and her baby. It's really amazing what these little souls can do.

Wow. Scubamom's siggie certainly wowed me, and I have quoted it to quite a few people since I read it, but reading what you wrote above seems to strike me again. Especially since at the moment I am having SUCH issues with my younger child. 2.5 and thinks that she can do everything herself and oh my! with such attitude and stubbornness!! Hmm, where could she be getting that from?!?!


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Since I am serial posting...question about yogurt. I have yet to successfully make 24h yogurt. I just bought some more unhomogenized milk with what I thought was an approved starter. I got Butterworks fullfat yogurt, only to discover when I got home that it was supposed to be nonfat. ??? I was under the impression that fullfat dairy is the only kind to get because you need all the fat to digest the protein? Anyway, we started eating it just so, and it is







!! But I guess it is not appropriate for SCD?

Had to reorder the book. Apparently the one I did order got lost in the mail.







:

For those with questions about no grains -- I am not finding it too difficult. Course, my kids do eat grains. I have had luck reducing the amount they consume with whole, raw foods.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

My dh was a big proponent of the Eat Right FOr YOur Type diet for a while. He is also O, as are both dds. It made him feel better but I think it's 'cause he cut out wheat.

Here's an intereting take on the diet:http://www.westonaprice.org/bookreviews/eat_right.html


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I think that it depends on what else you are doing. You aren't going to experience healing if you are eating the rice and doing nothing else. You *could* try the rice and just use enzymes and probiotics and other supplements along with it. The problem with gut issues (and with elimination diets) is that once the gut is damaged you could be sensitizing yourself to any foods you are eating on a consistent basis. My dd was allergic to rice until we did the SCD. It was because she was GF and I used rice alot. Now that we've healed her gut up she can have rice no problem. I would just encourage you to do something to heal even if it's not going straight on the diet. Make sense?

Carb addiction can really be a pretty significant sign of food allergies too. I know it was for me. Maybe look at it from that angle? We tend to crave what we are allergic too. There is alot of science to back that up. Allergens create an optiate response in the brain and you will continue to NEED the high you get from those foods. It is actually dangerous to continue consuming them. I'm pretty sure www.enzymestuff.com talks about this. That's one of the reasons die off was so painful for me. It was withrawal as well.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I'm confused...why do you think anything needs to be lowfat? For SCD? Everyone I know here uses full-fat and Elaine doesn't say lowfat. We don't do dairy at all...but when we did make yogurt in the beginning it was only full fat.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I think that it depends on what else you are doing. You aren't going to experience healing if you are eating the rice and doing nothing else. You *could* try the rice and just use enzymes and probiotics and other supplements along with it. The problem with gut issues (and with elimination diets) is that once the gut is damaged you could be sensitizing yourself to any foods you are eating on a consistent basis. My dd was allergic to rice until we did the SCD. It was because she was GF and I used rice alot. Now that we've healed her gut up she can have rice no problem.
Same thing re: the rice here. ff - how long did you give it before you tried rice again for your dd?


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
The problem with gut issues (and with elimination diets) is that once the gut is damaged you could be sensitizing yourself to any foods you are eating on a consistent basis. My dd was allergic to rice until we did the SCD. It was because she was GF and I used rice alot.

My aforementioned 4yr old also tested positive for rice. I'm sure, for the same reason.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I believe it was a solid four months on the SCD and then some time on the SCD with enzymes. I would say I waited at least 6 months. She has no reactions to it, but we are now going back to the SCD due to the hope of healing celiac disease.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Some yogurt making questions here. Forgive me if they have all been addressed and the answers should be obvious. Feel free to direct me to a previous post for info. First, what are you mamas making the yogurt in? I was going to get a yogurt maker but according to BTVC that might not be a good idea. Second, I know some of you are using the un homoginized but pasturized organic whole milk. Is a good option when raw milk isn't really available? WE can get raw milk but it has been smelling and tasting off to me. It comes from up north and I can't find a local source. I was planning to use the Trader Joe's un-hom but pasturized milk. Finally, for a starter, which brands of yogurt are good ones? Just wanted to see what you are having success with.
Thanks!


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *memory maker*
Ive cut out all solids for her for now and she is back to just breast milk. I did notice that sweet potatoes are not SCD friendly (after we tried them)

I have been reading about eating for your blood type. I dont know how accurate it is, but I am type O which says I should not eat any grains. (which makes since why I feel like crap when I do) Type Os are big meat eaters (which also explains why I felt like crap for the 6 months I was veggie) My dd2 is also type O which would make me think that is why she cant tolerate the grains that I eat and that she has eaten. Anyone know of any good research to know if there is truth to the blood type diet? Most of what I can eat is similar to SCD but goes on to tell me more fruits and veggies that can be harmful (but most I can eat)z


Here's what the WAPF has to say about the blood type diet:
http://www.westonaprice.org/bookreviews/eat_right.html


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
Some yogurt making questions here. Forgive me if they have all been addressed and the answers should be obvious. Feel free to direct me to a previous post for info. First, what are you mamas making the yogurt in? I was going to get a yogurt maker but according to BTVC that might not be a good idea. Second, I know some of you are using the un homoginized but pasturized organic whole milk. Is a good option when raw milk isn't really available? WE can get raw milk but it has been smelling and tasting off to me. It comes from up north and I can't find a local source. I was planning to use the Trader Joe's un-hom but pasturized milk. Finally, for a starter, which brands of yogurt are good ones? Just wanted to see what you are having success with.
Thanks!

I got a yogurt maker from amazon for under $20 that works great and fits a quart canning jar so I use that for making my yogurt.
I think your milk option sounds like a good one.

For starter yogurt make sure it is just milk and bacteria. No addatives in there like gums or sugars. I'm using the yogurmet starter now. I was using a local brand of yogurt for starter before that.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

sorry, double post


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

well I think that me sticking with the SCD diet and then slowly changing back to the NT way of preparing foods once out guts arehealed is the best idea







so glad I found this group!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sebrinaw*
Well one thing I have been reading is about the consistancy of the stools. My kids have always had soft, mushy stools. When we did cloth diapers I could never just shake it out like my friends did. It was always a mushy, sticky mess, lol. So I am hoping for improvement there. I would like to at least see formed stools. I am also really hoping for an improvement in temper flareups-for all of us. We seem to have short fuses in the house, but in particular myself and my middle son. Also looking for improvement in skin. Like the pp said it would be alot easier if I could use brown rice mainly in the form of rice cakes. I have some seriously picky eaters here, lol. I was hoping to do this gradually instead of cold turkey. I Understand that some people do it that way.
Sebrina

After reading what Nourishing Traditions has to say about puffed wheat I wouldn't eat any puffed cereal or any comercial cereal at all actually. If you want to do scd keeping one grain really isn't going to be that much easier. It may be somewhat easier but if you really want to see healing do scd for a month w/o any cheating. Then try the rice and see how you do if you still want to. That will give your body plenty of time to get used to the scd and you will see pretty clearly and quickly if rice is actually an issue for you and your children.


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## moonshine (Dec 5, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I'm confused...why do you think anything needs to be lowfat? For SCD? Everyone I know here uses full-fat and Elaine doesn't say lowfat. We don't do dairy at all...but when we did make yogurt in the beginning it was only full fat.

Here is what I got from the scd website for suitable starters (emphasis mine)

Quote:

U.S. - Vermont

Butterworks Farm - Their "organic *Nonfat* Yogurt 32 oz." contains acidophilus bulgaricus, and s. thermophilus.
from this page

Just looked at the fullfat yogurt I did buy, and it does have the bacteria she mentions, so I am thinking that it is ok.

If you don't do any dairy, did you not do yogurt?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So I have been taking candidase at bedtime with no problems. I have also been doing the chewable zyme prime, one with each meal, w/o a problem. Last night I took the candidase before bed. I then woke up at 3 or 4 am with the worst stomache ache I have had in ages. It was like my insides were getting torn open. Luckily my dd decided to not be latched on and had actually moved to her own bed at this point of the the night. Every time I moved it got worse. I went to the bathroom to see if it was a need to pee that was exasperating this. That didn't help and I lay on the bathroom floor for like an hour enjoying the coolness of it. I was burning up. I finally made my way downstairs and drank some beet kvass which finally put out the fire in my belly. Of course walking down the stairs woke up my sleeping dd (as it always does) and she freaked out at my not being there in the bed. Sigh. DH wasn't much comfort to her and she has been a clingy whiny mess all day long. We had to eat breakfast holding hands.

Why is my reaction to these enzymes getting worse over time? I want to get better and yet I'm being thwarted.


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

I guess everybody is different and the damage of the gut is different in nature. For me Candidase didn't do anything. I know I have yeast issues but I probably have bacterial overgrowth, too. After about 3 days my bf DD started having a rash and it just went away 1 week after stopping the enzymes. But her poop is still mucousy and greenish.
Other than that digestive enzymes definitely help to reduce bloating and gas.
Are you sure the enzymes made you sick?
I get really sick from too much CO at a time, and always at night.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I do fermented foods more than yogurt. I tried coconut yogurt, but it just didn't fly. We did high doses of probiotics that were SCD legal. More expensive, but necessary for us.

Moonshine-I'd guess that meant that she tested that specific one. Maybe someone else can help?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Yeah, we finally have internet again (it's been down for 3 days)...and DD has teeth! She bit my finger this morning and it hurt, and when I looked in her mouth I saw two little bottom teeth coming in. I wish I had know that last night as she screamed for an hour straight at bedtime and I had some Hyland's teething tablets I would have given her if I had known she was teething.

OK, so I'm guessing the teething is going to make it hard to know if DD is reacting to stuff or not. Can teething cause an eczema flare-up? I wonder if it is possible that the teething and not the goat yogurt is causing the flare-up.

Anyone know how much evening primrose oil I should be taking to help with DD's eczema?

And can sunlight make DD's eczema worse? I've been trying to get some sun on her because I read the Vitamin D can help with eczema but her face always looks worse after she gets some sun (and she's not getting burned).

What are common symptoms of teething, anyway? The only thing DD's been doing differently is having trouble going to sleep at night. She hasn't been cranky or anything (yet).


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EBG*
I guess everybody is different and the damage of the gut is different in nature. For me Candidase didn't do anything. I know I have yeast issues but I probably have bacterial overgrowth, too. After about 3 days my bf DD started having a rash and it just went away 1 week after stopping the enzymes. But her poop is still mucousy and greenish.
Other than that digestive enzymes definitely help to reduce bloating and gas.
Are you sure the enzymes made you sick?
I get really sick from too much CO at a time, and always at night.

I'm not 100% sure it was the enzymes last night but it was very similar to the stomaches that I get durring the day a few hours after taking enzymes (and don't get if I don't take them), just way more intense.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I got a yogurt maker from amazon for under $20 that works great and fits a quart canning jar so I use that for making my yogurt.
I think your milk option sounds like a good one.

For starter yogurt make sure it is just milk and bacteria. No addatives in there like gums or sugars. I'm using the yogurmet starter now. I was using a local brand of yogurt for starter before that.

Thanks. I will check that out. The organic yogurt I have been buying looks like a good one for a starter.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonshine*
Here is what I got from the scd website for suitable starters (emphasis mine)

from this page

Just looked at the fullfat yogurt I did buy, and it does have the bacteria she mentions, so I am thinking that it is ok.

If you don't do any dairy, did you not do yogurt?

In BTVC the section on yogurt says you can use any "good quality" yogurt for a starter as long as it is only milk and/or milk solids and bacteria. I am also guessing on the website that was just an example of one you can use.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Caedmyn, My dd has excema on her cheeks too and it's been pretty bad the last several weeks. I think the sun does make it worse.

On a more positive note about dd1: This is the 3rd day in a row that she's had a 1/2 solid poopy!









Patty, I'm sorry you're feeling lousy. I hope you find out what's causing it.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Anybody do kombucha here?
This sitesays pg or nursing mamas should not drink it. I have some but haven't tried it yet. Should I not?


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I've been drinking it. Had no idea it could be an issue. I think that I'll keep drinking it. I like it and never had a negative reaction to it. Neither did dd. I don't think I gave her any directly but she nurses enough that I'm sure she got some. It is expensive so I tended to just drink 2-3 oz at a time. Gonna get a mushroom from my nieghbor to make my own one of these days...


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Can teething cause an eczema flare-up? I wonder if it is possible that the teething and not the goat yogurt is causing the flare-up.

Anyone know how much evening primrose oil I should be taking to help with DD's eczema?

And can sunlight make DD's eczema worse? I've been trying to get some sun on her because I read the Vitamin D can help with eczema but her face always looks worse after she gets some sun (and she's not getting burned).

Have you tried raw organic, virgin coconut oil *ON* the eczema? It helped my dry skin and made dh's eczema much less inflamed. He couldn't use it consistently though since it is greasy and his work shirt covers the eczema.

Pat


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## chlobo (Jan 24, 2004)

I was just reading the enzyme thread wondering how you know if you need enzymes?

I'm thinking we are suffering from leaky gut and/or food sensitivities but how do I know? Did everyone here just diagnose themselves or is there a practitioner you can go to to get a diagnosis?

DDs main symptoms are eczema, poor sleep & undigested food in her stool.

I'm so confused.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I was blessed with phenomenal practitioners that totally got what I was doing. Even so, they provided me with some info, but I was the one who took control and developed our protocol. Took lots of reading, but I'm very confident in what we've chosen to do.

One of the things you can do is look at the symptoms/causes of a leaky gut and decide based on that. In this day and age most people do have issues to some extent. HTH.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *scubamama*
Have you tried raw organic, virgin coconut oil *ON* the eczema? It helped my dry skin and made dh's eczema much less inflamed. He couldn't use it consistently though since it is greasy and his work shirt covers the eczema.

Pat

I use EVOO on it. I've tried coconut oil before and it doesn't seem to help. I guess I could try it again, though.


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## kamesennin (Jan 3, 2005)

.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Anybody do kombucha here?
This sitesays pg or nursing mamas should not drink it. I have some but haven't tried it yet. Should I not?

There was just a discussion about this, perhaps on the NT site......
One of the ladies there had said that the contraindication comes from the strong deotoxifying effect of kombucha. Most conventional advice says stay away from it for this reason, but logic says that if you've been taking it all along before you get pregnant, you shouldn't suffer a really strong detox when you're pg, the idea being that you've already gone through the initial strong detox. I take it daily, and I'm considering taking it during pregnancy as well because it's such a great source of B vitamins.

On that note: Is there any reason to suspect that my _very_ delayed ovulation is related to my new way of eating? I'm about 4 days late, which is unprecedented. I never did get the last hcg quant after my miscarriage 2 months ago - and I haven't given it a second thought until now because my cycles got regular again, and it just seemed so hysterically unnecessary. But I'm suspecting stress or the diet before I"m suspecting an incomplete MC anyway. Any thoughts? I've been slightly paranoid about inadequate B-Vitamins with having a grain and starch-free diet, but I haven't been taking a B-supplement.


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## memory maker (Dec 11, 2003)

well we are on day one here. It has been really easy for me so far. I do need to go to the HFS later and get some nuts.

for breakfast I had fruit salad and 2 eggs
for lunch I am having chicken, various veggies and fruits
Dont know for dinner yet


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Whee! I started the June thread here!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...40#post5252140


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
I'm suspecting stress or the diet before I"m suspecting an incomplete MC anyway. Any thoughts? I've been slightly paranoid about inadequate B-Vitamins with having a grain and starch-free diet, but I haven't been taking a B-supplement.

I don't know about your specific situation; but I would not try to get pregnant on a diet low in folic acid, without supplementation: http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/476.html I don't know if you know of this information, but wanted to be certain. My understanding was that supplementing for at least three months in advance was preferable. I believe that I remember that birth control pills deplete folic acid. This link suggests that birth control (hormones) might interfere with absorption of folic acid. I speculate that a pregnancy (miscarriage) could do the same. http://parenting.ivillage.com/ttc/tt...,,3p5r,00.html

B- vitamins are very relevant to the immune system and stress too.

Pat


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## krankedyann (May 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
There was just a discussion about this, perhaps on the NT site......
One of the ladies there had said that the contraindication comes from the strong deotoxifying effect of kombucha. Most conventional advice says stay away from it for this reason, but logic says that if you've been taking it all along before you get pregnant, you shouldn't suffer a really strong detox when you're pg, the idea being that you've already gone through the initial strong detox. I take it daily, and I'm considering taking it during pregnancy as well because it's such a great source of B vitamins.

Yup, that would be me.

If you're aleady on it, no reason not to continue- it will support your liver through the pregnancy and will lessen the morning sickness.

if you'd like to start it, start with a very low dose and worrk your way up very slowly to avoid the detox reaction. This will assist your liver in filtering the hormones and toxins you come in contact with.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Replying here even though the June thread is started . . .
I asked about the komucha - - I'm not pg but am b'feeding. Still go slowly?


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## krankedyann (May 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Replying here even though the June thread is started . . .
I asked about the komucha - - I'm not pg but am b'feeding. Still go slowly?

Yes, go slowly. You want to avoid a detox reaction. If you build up slowly, it won't happen.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pbandj*
Hi everyone, I've been absent from this thread for a while but I thought I would pop back in and see how you are all doing. Dd is 15 mo now and doing great. She has regular stools and no rashes on her body whatsoever. Such a different baby compared to 6 months ago. I attribute her skin health to a careful watch over her diet--it mostly consists now of soups, vegetables, fruits, meat, cheese, and a few soy foods like tofu and fermented beans, and tahini. Now that she is older my family and nosey friends and strangers are asking when I will give her rice and other grains. She has not had any at all, I fail to see the nutritional value in a cup of white rice, or a hunk of white bread. I am doing okay, right? There's no need for her to eat grains because she is getting enough fiber and carbs from vegetables and fruits-- I feel like I am doing preventive care, but everyone just thinks I am being dumb.







And what is the point of eating cherrioes and crackers?









This is so wonderful Liane!!! I've been wondering how y'all have been doing and I'm so glad to hear from you.









Your proof is in your child, there is absolutely no reason to eat Cheerios and crackers except for laziness! All boxed cereal is not at all healthy... the high heat damages the fats and proteins and also creates acrylmides.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chlobo*
I was just reading the enzyme thread wondering how you know if you need enzymes?

I'm thinking we are suffering from leaky gut and/or food sensitivities but how do I know? Did everyone here just diagnose themselves or is there a practitioner you can go to to get a diagnosis?

DDs main symptoms are eczema, poor sleep & undigested food in her stool.

I'm so confused.

Self diagnosis as I read more and more about it. Unless you have 1-3 firm brown stools a day with no discernable food and no gas/bloating, you have digestive problems.

How old is DD? Sometimes undigested food is common and normal in younger babes.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Ooops, sorry! Moving to June thread...


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