# Is this anyone's business?



## stacey2061 (Feb 1, 2006)

I'm so sick of people asking if Adam sleeps through the night yet...and then GASPING when I admitt he doesn't! And the crap I get because he sleeps with us..."You'll never get him out of your bed!"

"Oh, well, that's none of your business really, and stop asking if you don't like the answer you get!" Is what I want to say!

Can you imagine people asking and commenting on you and your partner's sleep situation?! "What do you wear to bed?" "How often do you have sex?" blah blah blah...


----------



## melanie83103 (Jun 23, 2006)

Yep, I've been there. It's annoying. I don't think people stopped asking that until Owen was about 2. Then, thankfully, they just assumed he was sleeping through the night in his own bed, and stopped asking me.

Melanie


----------



## Valkyrie9 (Sep 29, 2006)

You could just say something like, "We're really happy with his sleeping patterns." Or say, "He sleeps just like he should for his age," and keep the whole part about how that is with his parents, etc. to yourself. It would minimize the conflict, though you are totally right: it isn't anyone's business, much less their right to judge you/Adam/your parenting!

FWIW, when I have mainstream friends & acquaintances talking about how their little ones sleep alone in another room and through the night, I gasp to myself on the inside as to how they're doing it wrong.







But I don't say anything.


----------



## lesley&grace (Jun 7, 2005)

No it's not anyone's business really, but I do understand your frustration. My daughter did not start sleeping through the night until I weaned her (at 19&1/2 mos, I wanted desperately to continue but since I am pregnant again the nursing had become very painful). She was also spending some or all of the night in our bed, and even now I get her to sleep by cuddling her in my bed and moving her into her own bed once she is fully asleep. And I am constantly having to defend this. To everyone who does not get the concept of the family bed and to those who believe you should let them cry it out and to my mom who spent years trying to get me to fall asleep on my own ("You're going to regret that later, mark my words").

My response: "It's not for everyone, but it works for us." Keep repeating that as they make their arguments, eventually they'll get that you aren't going to change your mind because they say so.


----------



## moonpie's_mama (Oct 31, 2005)

i HATE hearing the whole "you will never get her out of your bed!" crap. guess what, we don't WANT to get her out of our bed! *gasp*

the world associates the bedroom with sex, and to have a child in there with you and your husband is just plain weird and inappropriate. because, according to everyone out there, YOU are the adult, and YOUR needs come first, and you HAVE to keep your husband happy above all else. and you have to teach your child to self-soothe NOW, or they will NEVER be able to do anything for themselves!! (i get the same shit about breastfeeding: "if you don't wean them at a year, they'll never stop!" wtf?? do you see any 10-year-olds out there still nursing?)







:







:







:

it makes me soooo sad and sick. i love sleeping with micah, and i love nursing her, and SHE can decide when she wants to quit doing both of those things. yes, that's right, I LOVE SLEEPING WITH MY DAUGHTER!!!!!!! and what's better... SO DOES MY HUSBAND!!!!!!

sorry, i didn't mean for that to be quite so sarcastic. but this really gets me steamed. and i totally agree with your response. it is NONE of anyone's business, whatsoever.


----------



## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Yes, it's sad that people don't see motherhood as sacred the way they do marriage (or at least sex). For instance, I've heard of moms not breastfeeding because they find it personally repulsive -- and I've also heard of women being repulsed by sex but "enduring" it 'cause they don't want their men to cheat on them or leave. I hasten to add that I DO see marriage and sex as sacred, not repulsive -- I just think the sacredness also extends to the fruit of the union (the children) and the parent-child relationships.

If a woman has sexual difficulties, people will encourage her to get help and "save" her marriage -- thay won't say, "Oh well, sex is only ONE way to bond with your husband." Yet if she has breastfeeding difficulties -- well, formula is "just as good" and of course Baby won't leave you for ffing.

I know you're talking about co-sleeping, not breastfeeding, but I kind of see it all as one picture. By the way, I feel like I "sleep through the night" even though I periodically wake up to use the restroom and get a drink of water, so my baby does too -- even though she nurses two or three times during the night. It's actually the co-sleeping that makes it possible to "sleep throught the night" while still meeting my children's needs. They're right there with me so I can meet their needs without getting up.


----------



## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stacey2061* 
I'm so sick of people asking if Adam sleeps through the night yet...and then GASPING when I admitt he doesn't!

See, there's the problem right there. "Admit he doesn't"? Pah! Since these are clearly not people you'd be going to with sleep concerns, try "He sleeps with us so I wake up well-rested."

Mammal_mama, fabulous analogy!


----------



## ohiomommy1122 (Jul 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stacey2061* 
I'm so sick of people asking if Adam sleeps through the night yet...and then GASPING when I admitt he doesn't! And the crap I get because he sleeps with us..."You'll never get him out of your bed!"

"Oh, well, that's none of your business really, and stop asking if you don't like the answer you get!" Is what I want to say!

Can you imagine people asking and commenting on you and your partner's sleep situation?! "What do you wear to bed?" "How often do you have sex?" blah blah blah...









ya what you said!


----------



## stacey2061 (Feb 1, 2006)

hee hee...thanks, gals!


----------



## sun-shine01 (Aug 9, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonpie's_mama* 
i HATE hearing the whole "you will never get her out of your bed!" crap. guess what, we don't WANT to get her out of our bed! *gasp*


ditto


----------



## 13Sandals (Sep 22, 2006)

as far as the 'you'll never get him out of your bed' comment - I have a great (if I may say so myself) comeback for that..."well, if he's still sneaking in our bed after he's married, we'll have to have that looked at"


----------



## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

When people say "you'll never get her out of your bed" to me, I say "yes, we've already begun looking into local colleges!"







It points out how ridiculous the notion is.


----------



## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

I know I ask people that question (about sleeping through the night and other general baby questions) just to be friendly and sympathize if they need it. Parents usually like to talk about their babies and this sort of opens up the conversation and shows them you are interested. I would never make a judgement about their parenting unless they ask for advice. I can't believe why some people think they have the right to say those things!


----------



## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Valkyrie9* 
You could just say something like, "We're really happy with his sleeping patterns." Or say, "He sleeps just like he should for his age," and keep the whole part about how that is with his parents, etc. to yourself.

Good answers. And yes, it is annoying to answer the same questions all the time, especially when they're no ones business, but I also think people ask just to be friendly. It's more interesting to talk about babies than the weather. But there is no good reason for people to react negatively to whatever your answer was--they brought it up!


----------



## ima062002 (Mar 23, 2004)

My mom is on our case for extended nursing (I am expecting another one) and asks every time we speak "you are not still nursing your son aren't you".

So here is a great answer IMO for this question and for others of the same type: "You didn't like my answer last time, so why do you ask again?"


----------



## mommymarliah (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stacey2061* 
I'm so sick of people asking if Adam sleeps through the night yet...and then GASPING when I admitt he doesn't! And the crap I get because he sleeps with us..."You'll never get him out of your bed!"

"Oh, well, that's none of your business really, and stop asking if you don't like the answer you get!" Is what I want to say!

Can you imagine people asking and commenting on you and your partner's sleep situation?! "What do you wear to bed?" "How often do you have sex?" blah blah blah...


annoying isn't it? My 2.5 year old still wakes at night and people have actually asked me about sex lol.
Why on earth they think that is their business is beyond me. I ussually just answer with "who says sex has to be done in a bed?" and a wink lol that shuts them up.


----------



## thedevinemissm (Apr 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ima062002* 
"You didn't like my answer last time, so why do you ask again?"























:
















*Love it!!!!!*


----------



## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

No, it's none of their business.

I've heard that "why do you ask" can be a really great end to that sort of questioning, b/c they have to figure out why, exactly, they care, and then justify it out loud.

I personally don't normally sleep through the night, never really have except when sick or home from college years ago...so I sometimes mentioned that I don't, so I don't expect him to, either.

I've also been known to say "yes, with breaks for milky-snacks". People either really like that, or get really confused. Either way, the conversation is usually over.









But no matter what, you have to be perky and cheery about it, if you don't want to get into it with a naysayer. Just really talk it up, even if last night you were secretly longing for one of those kids who just fall asleep easily at 7 and wake up 12 hours later (though that would be my own level of hell, being a late-sleeper).









And if people get into your sex life with a family bed, I was coached by former practice members of mine (previous life as a chiropractor) who would get a mischevious look in their eyes, and talk about how boring sex in a bed was....the few times I did a housecall out there, I didn't want to sit on their living room furniture, that's for sure!







:


----------



## summerbabe (Nov 12, 2006)

My son is 3 months old, and I have been shocked by the fact that pretty much without exception, the FIRST question EVERYONE asks is how does he sleep?does he sleep through the night? Is he a good sleeper? I can't believe how obsessed with it people are. As if that is THE most important thing about having a child! Do people care more about their sleep than they do about their children???? I have also been thinking about ways to respond to this, as I am already sick of it.


----------



## AngelaVA (Nov 12, 2006)

In my mind, my DD does sleep through the night, she half wakes up to nurse, and then goes back to sleep, I don't spend hours trying to rock her back to sleep in the middle of the night. When people ask me if she sleeps through the night I always say, "yes, she's a good sleeper." Maybe my definition of sleeping through the night and theirs are different put I don't really feel like I am am lying to them. If, on the other hand they ask me about co-sleeping I go on and on about how great it is and what the new research shows etc until I either have them convinced about co-sleeping or they are so tired of listening to me they never bring it up again.


----------



## moonpie's_mama (Oct 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *13Sandals* 
as far as the 'you'll never get him out of your bed' comment - I have a great (if I may say so myself) comeback for that..."well, if he's still sneaking in our bed after he's married, we'll have to have that looked at"


i agree, that is perfect!


----------



## Ahappymel (Nov 20, 2001)

I used to just say "He's a great sleeper!" and leave it at that...
It wasn't a lie...he did sleep great....he just used to wake up to nurse too








It's nobody's business, I agree.
For those who say that you'll never get him out of bed, I would say, "I guess he'll have to take me with him to college!"
And for those who dare to even comment on the quality of the romantic relationship with your partner as a result of the child in the bed...well, I used to relish in embarrassing them a bit by saying, "You know, there are lots of places to have sex other than a bed....the kitchen, the bathroom, the closet, the livingroom...."


----------



## Usually Curious (Apr 26, 2006)

I can assure you that my 16, 15 & 10 year olds do NOT sleep in my bed with me. They will NOT be in your bed forever!

Although, when they get scared or creeped out they are always welcome to a pallet on our floor.

ETA - my 16yod slept in our room for a week after my cousin committed suicide because she was so freaked out. I was so glad that she was able to be in our room, she really needed the comfort. That foundation was laid when she was a babe in the family bed!


----------



## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

My GMIL is big on that...which is funny because she says ALL her kids were in bed with her. It's a big joke in the family (I guess?) that just as soon as she kicked a kid out of bed she got pregnant...so I'm thinking...wait...you and FIL didn't have sex for FOUR YEARS? Wow...(there is approx 4-5 years between each of their 4 children)

I just say "Yup, he sleeps fine." which he is. And if they press on I say "Do YOU sleep through the night?" and they usually say "Ya know? I don't!" *lightbulb moment*

I also do the *wink wink* who said sex has to be limited to the bedroom? PS- If you're squeemish about sex surfaces might want to stay away from....well just about every surface in my home...







:


----------



## dukeswalker (Feb 1, 2003)

Agree with you all!

I usually answer with something like "yep, dds sleeping just as she should - waking up every few hours to nurse!" delivered with a big, fat, juicy smile!

I also have to concur - my 13 no longer wished to sleep in our bed - even after I asked him (ok, pleaded) to when dh was out of town for a week and I was a little creeped out....


----------



## Valkyrie9 (Sep 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonpie's_mama* 
the world associates the bedroom with sex, and to have a child in there with you and your husband is just plain weird and inappropriate.

OMG, I never thought of it from that angle--what a lightbulb moment for me! Thanks for posting that.


----------



## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JamesMama* 
My GMIL is big on that...which is funny because she says ALL her kids were in bed with her. It's a big joke in the family (I guess?) that just as soon as she kicked a kid out of bed she got pregnant...so I'm thinking...wait...you and FIL didn't have sex for FOUR YEARS? Wow...(there is approx 4-5 years between each of their 4 children)

If she was a nursing momma it might have been the night nursing that kept her from getting pregnant, and not the lack of sex. We never kicked our oldest out of our bed (and have no desire to kick her out) but our daughters are almost five years apart because breastfeeding has such a powerful effect on my fertility.


----------



## a-sorta-fairytale (Mar 29, 2005)

What i looooooove to do when someone comments on the sex life and they are in MY house is to look longingly at the big cushy chair they are sitting on and then say "we think it is much more fun to have sex in other places" then wink. It is a riot!


----------



## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *a-sorta-fairytale* 
What i looooooove to do when someone comments on the sex life and they are in MY house is to look longingly at the big cushy chair they are sitting on and then say "we think it is much more fun to have sex in other places" then wink. It is a riot!

I love it!


----------



## Pepe (Jul 7, 2005)

I relate to your frustration, too.

I'm personally in favor of always telling the truth about co-sleeping, "extended" nursing, and so forth, even though it got me scolded by the pediatrician. The more people hear about it (whatever it is), the more common they will realize it is--and if it's something that works for so many people, maybe it isn't so crazy, right?

To a relative who was hinting around about DS in our bed affecting our marriage/sex life, I said, in a moment of unplanned candor, "Well, we have a lot of other furniture!" (True!)

I saw a onesie somewhere that said "NOT sleeping through the night" on it. I wish I had it for DS. There was also one that said "I'll walk when I'm good and ready" or something similar, whihc would also have been useful--though that's not quite the same hotly contested issue...

Hang in there! We all know why you're doing what you're doing.


----------



## St. Margaret (May 19, 2006)

Exactly-- I'd just feel sorry for those folks who so firmly associate the bedroom with sex... it is highly likely (50/50 chance) that this baby was conceived in the bathroom/on the floor (the other option is the OTHER bathroom-- with the bathtub/and the bed, which was serving as a massage table, not so much a bed, lol). I love these responses-- I'm stealing them!!!


----------



## a-sorta-fairytale (Mar 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mammal_mama* 
I love it!

Thanks







The horrified/surprised/embarressed looks are well worth it.


----------



## lara1828 (Aug 11, 2005)

it is none of their business. feel free to lie.


----------



## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

I got a lot of the "You'll never get him out of your bed" and "Trust me, you will REGRET it!" comments, but DS moved into his own bed willingly at 11 months (he wanted more space and was crazy wiggly, nobody was sleeping).

I also got a few comments on how long I nursed, but they were mostly when he was younger. When DS was 8 months old, STBX's aunt said "STILL???" when I sat down to nurse DS. I wonder if she knows STBX was nursed till he was almost 5.

I mentioned in class once that I needed to go home on lunch to nurse my son. My classmate asked how old he was. I said "He's one." The guy fairly GOGGLED at me and said, "Okay, STOP!" I told him what's what about nursing and brought him info the next day about the benefits of EBF. Unfortunately, it didn't change his mind. I ran into him when I took DS to the ER a few months later and told him how pleased the doctors were that he was still nursing. He shrugged and said "I still think the absolute limit should be six months." He couldn't explain why, though. I think he said his little girl was only nursed for a couple of weeks. Poor kiddo.


----------



## Sagesgirl (Nov 22, 2001)

It's _not_ anyone's business, of course, which begs the question of why you're answering them. As long as you talk about your parenting decisions with people, they'll feel free to comment on them. I've only had a conversation about where my kids sleep _once_, before Bobbie was ever born, and I learned my lesson then. Co-sleeping is now discussed only with people whom I know do it themselves & are OK with it.


----------



## stacyann21 (Oct 21, 2006)

I agree that you don't have to answer them, at least not truthfully. It is a thoughtless question to ask and pointless really. By the way my name is Stacy and my son will be named Adam too!


----------



## janerose (May 9, 2004)

For the "You'll never get them out of your bed." comment I usually say something like, "Really? Well, I slept with my parents until I was 6 when my brother got old enough to share a bed with me. Then *he* slept with me for a couple years. We both turned out OK, don't have sleep problems, and TRUST ME neither of us has any urge to sleep with our parents or each other."

Kinda wordy, but it works and I've never had anyone argue with me about it because....well...I'm speaking from first hand experience you know?

I've also been known to reply "Do YOU like to sleep alone? No? Then why should my children? It works for us and it's really none of your business anyway." Of course, it helps if you know the person you're talking to well enough to know that they actually *don't* sleep alone each night before you break that reply out.









As for the sex thing for a baby I'd reply something like, "They're in the crib that's attached to the bed & they're asleep. Honestly, they don't know what you're doing. Get over it." For our toddler I say, "She starts the night in her room & comes in with us when we go to sleep. We have plenty of personal time. Besides, it's not like the bedroom is the only place you can do it!"

Blessings,
Holly


----------



## Glover_Girls (Mar 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moonpie's_mama* 
i HATE hearing the whole "you will never get her out of your bed!" crap. guess what, we don't WANT to get her out of our bed! *gasp*


----------



## luv my lil pearl (Oct 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stacey2061* 
I'm so sick of people asking if Adam sleeps through the night yet...and then GASPING when I admitt he doesn't! And the crap I get because he sleeps with us..."You'll never get him out of your bed!"

"Oh, well, that's none of your business really, and stop asking if you don't like the answer you get!" Is what I want to say!

Can you imagine people asking and commenting on you and your partner's sleep situation?! "What do you wear to bed?" "How often do you have sex?" blah blah blah...

Wow! those are some personal questions! No - it's nobody's business!


----------



## CallMeMommy (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stacyann21* 
I agree that you don't have to answer them, at least not truthfully. It is a thoughtless question to ask and pointless really. By the way my name is Stacy and my son will be named Adam too!

Gotta love the name Adam









My generic come-back is "Well I have yet to hear of someone who wouldn't go to college because they didn't want to leave their parent's bed..." and so far it's worked well.


----------



## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommymarliah* 
annoying isn't it? My 2.5 year old still wakes at night and people have actually asked me about sex lol.
Why on earth they think that is their business is beyond me. I ussually just answer with "who says sex has to be done in a bed?" and a wink lol that shuts them up.

I agree 100% with your answer but I've got grief for it. The person in question was complaining because what happens if mom is putting baby to sleep and falls asleep with baby and it's too hard to move to another room because she's really tired yadda, yadda, yadda

Oh yeah and they knows someone who lives in a studio apt so what are they supposed to do....

never mind that it IS the case with me and dh. We have a three bedroom house and enough beds to designate one for recreational activities

This person just plain didn't want a family bed and kept trying to argue how it wouldn't work

It works for us but they didn't want to hear about it


----------



## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ckw* 
My son is 3 months old, and I have been shocked by the fact that pretty much without exception, the FIRST question EVERYONE asks is how does he sleep?does he sleep through the night? Is he a good sleeper? I can't believe how obsessed with it people are. As if that is THE most important thing about having a child! Do people care more about their sleep than they do about their children???? I have also been thinking about ways to respond to this, as I am already sick of it.

these are the same sort of people who ask "is she a *good* baby?"









that's code for a "convenient, undemanding" baby (not those "bad" babies who have the temerity to want to be held and nursed...).


----------



## Anglyn (Oct 25, 2004)

(1) Not sleeping through the night until they are 3 or 4 years of age is normal and healthy behavior for human infants.
(2) Your children are not being difficult or manipulative, they are being normal and healthy, and behaving in ways that are appropriate for our species.
Human children are designed to be sleeping with their parents. The sense of touch is the most important sense to primates, along with sight. Young primates are carried on their mother's body and sleep with her for years after birth, often until well after weaning. The expected pattern is for mother and child to sleep together, and for child to be able to nurse whenever they want during the night. Normal, healthy, breastfed and co-sleeping children do not sleep "through the night" (say 7-9 hours at a stretch) until they are 3-4 years old, and no longer need night nursing. I repeat -- this is NORMAL and HEALTHY. Dr. James McKenna's research on co-sleeping clearly shows the dangers of solitary sleeping in young infants, who slip into abnormal patterns of very deep sleep from which it is very difficult for them to rouse themselves when they experience an episode of apnea (stop breathing). When co-sleeping, the mother is monitoring the baby's sleep and breathing patterns, even though she herself is asleep. When the baby has an episode of apnea, she rouses the baby by her movements and touch. This is thought to be the primary mechanism by which co-sleeping protects children from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. In other words, many cases of SIDS in solitary sleeping children are thought to be due to them having learned to sleep for long stretches at a time at a very early age, so they find themselves in these deep troughs of sleep, then they may experience an episode of apnea, and no one is there to notice or rouse them from it, so they just never start breathing again. Co-sleeping also allows a mother to monitor the baby's temperature during the night, to be there if they spit up and start to choke, and just to provide the normal, safe environment that the baby/child has been designed to expect.

The above is a quote, for the entire article go here:

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detsleepthrough.html

DS1 was somewhere between three and four and dd is 3.5 and jsut started sleeping through the night.

I am also stealing some of these great responses!


----------



## wlcook (Nov 23, 2006)

*Crouse Hospital requiring mothers to sign anti co-sleeping form!*

Crouse Hospital of Syracuse NY discourages co-sleeping. I scanned the original documents and uploaded them to flickr.
*HERE* is their "Fact" sheet. (To enlarge click on magnifying glass)

_*Please note the use of the word *"Facts"*...these are NOT facts, but opinions of the hospital!_

*HERE* is the form that they are *requiring* mothers to sign!

If you find this as outrageous as I do, feel free to send a letter. I would love to organize a mass mailing:

Crouse Hospital
Kienzle Family Maternity Center
736 Irving Avenue
Syracuse, N.Y. 13210

Kienzle Family Maternity Center (315) 470-7753

Read Dr. Sears' article on the benefits of co-sleeping by clicking here!

"This generation of mothers labors under [the] dubious pronouncement that babies sleep best in isolation. Every infant knows better. His protest at nocturnal solitude contains the wisdom of millennia." - Thomas Lewis, M.D., (A General Theory of Love)

Posted by Wendy of Mother Rising


----------



## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Wow! Sounds like Crouse Hospital advocates CIO too.


----------



## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I had both my sons at Crouse and they MADE me (I could have declined but was young & dumb then...) take a "class" before I could leave - taught me some VERY odd things, like when crying should be answered & I do remember signing some promises but don't recall what they said. I remember being discusted but going with the flow so I could leave. And let me tell you...Crouse is THE BEST hospital in Syracuse! The rest are FARRRRR worse, trust me!


----------



## wlcook (Nov 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 
I had both my sons at Crouse and they MADE me (I could have declined but was young & dumb then...) take a "class" before I could leave - taught me some VERY odd things, like when crying should be answered & I do remember signing some promises but don't recall what they said. I remember being discusted but going with the flow so I could leave. And let me tell you...Crouse is THE BEST hospital in Syracuse! The rest are FARRRRR worse, trust me!









Thank you for responding, Marie. I had my son at the Birth Place at St. Joe's and it was a wonderful experience. I was exhausted, but didn't want to put my son down so the nurses propped pillows all around me in such a way that if I fell asleep holding him, no harm would come to him. I found them very supportive and loving.

Wendy from Mother Rising


----------



## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wlcook* 
Thank you for responding, Marie. I had my son at the Birth Place at St. Joe's and it was a wonderful experience. I was exhausted, but didn't want to put my son down so the nurses propped pillows all around me in such a way that if I fell asleep holding him, no harm would come to him. I found them very supportive and loving.

Wendy from Mother Rising


Interesting. My Aunt is a nurse at St. Joes...she has shared soem pretty scary things from there...it just depends I guess. I had some WONDERFUL nurses at Crouse, some really bad, too...hit & miss really...in terms of hospitals though...Syracuse is in DIRE straights.


----------



## wallacesmum (Jun 2, 2006)

Score another for home birth!

I don't know about other cultures, but Americans are just so darn weird about sex, and I think so much of it boils down to that. We all know there are bazillions of sexless marriages where only mom and dad are in the bed; it's an open joke. I wonder if families that co-sleep actually have MORE, not less, physical intimacy between all members of the family. Bf is obviously extremely intimate physically, and I think it is meant to be. Physical bonds are important in a family, and they differ depending on the relationship. In some cultures, the whole family bathes together and no one thinks this is strange at all. Can you imagine telling mainstream mamas that everyone gets in the tub together? My ds (8m0) needed a bath one night at my parent's house, and my mom said I could borrow a bathing suit if I wanted to get in the tub with him! I told her that I didn't mind if he saw me naked. She laughed and realized what a dumb thing she had said.

Oh yeah, I always say that he sleeps beautifully, and nurses often. And when people ask if he is a "good baby," I always say that he is a wonderful baby, but not an easy baby. I don't want a "good" baby. As for sex, I tell people that I the end of the day isn't the best time to have sex, when everyone's tired, and that nap-time makes much more sense. Even Dr. Sears writes as much in his Baby Book.


----------



## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wlcook* 
*Crouse Hospital requiring mothers to sign anti co-sleeping form!*

*HERE* is the form that they are *requiring* mothers to sign!

If you find this as outrageous as I do, feel free to send a letter. I would love to organize a mass mailing:

Crouse Hospital
Kienzle Family Maternity Center
736 Irving Avenue
Syracuse, N.Y. 13210

Kienzle Family Maternity Center (315) 470-7753

Posted by Wendy of Mother Rising

grrrr!!!!!

are they asking postpartum moms to sign it, or do they just mean when sick babies (like with IV's, O2, etc), are hospitalized? either way it sucks, but if they're including healthy newborns, then they're really showing it as an attempt to indoctrinate people by intimidation into the "de-tatchment parenting" philosophy (which the "fact" sheet is). it probably also comes from their risk management department trying to pre-establish blame, now that the anti-cosleeping forces (CPSC, crib/formula manufacturers) have gone on the offense with their "research"/press releases/campaign of fear. they'll try to criminalize it next; make it a child abuse issue like they have extended bfing. if i get even more suspicious, i'd wonder if it's coming directly from formula marketers to hospital policy makers to try to derail bf'ing, just like when they provide architects to hospitals, who then design nurseries that are huge (waiting to be filled with de-tached babies) and far away from moms' rooms.

my (then) 3mos old was hospitalized with pneumonia, had IV and O2, and i was told i could cosleep with her at children's hopital in oakland, CA. i kind of implied that i wouldn't admit her if they said no, and i'm 40ish, white, have good insurance, and i'm a physical therapist in a hospital, which makes a difference: more respect and deference instead of attempts to intimidate (unlike my 23yo friend with orange hair and mediCAL, who got no respect at the same hospital).















[i'm not kidding about the difference: new people (MDs/nurses) would come in to the room and say "so i hear you're a nurse..." which shows how it went thru the grapevine/got mentioned in report because hospital workers know they can't bulls*** a peer. and warn each other to be careful. i often get these types of warnings at my hospital. lawyers get treated well, too, and close relatives of lawyers, so if someone you love gets hospitalized, try to slip it in to staff that there's a lawyer in the family, eg "my sister will be here to see mom later, she's tied up in court right now." malpractice fear can be used to your advantage if you don't mind lying to get treated better. sorry to digress so far, but this thread had digressed to what hospitals are trying to get away with].

even so, when we got to the room, it turned out the only place for me to sleep was one of those chair pullouts, which was not a safe cosleeping spot: too skinny between the armrests; i kept squishing and disturbing her. i ended up moving her into the cage/crib, and nursing her to sleep there. at least it was big enough, i fit in there ok since the siderail went all the way down and i could curl up with my butt sticking out the side. the nurses knew, but said nothing (although earlier they had told dh not to sit on it like a couch, citing weight restrictions, while i was holding dd2). to get any sleep myself, though, i had to leave her alone up there, which was horrible. she was so little and sick, and had been born at home and always coslept.

well, i just noticed the responses made since i started this reply (hunt and peck/oht/nak/serving breakfast...). clearly this is their newborn policy. i just wish people knew they don't have to obey this stuff. in my hospital some long term patients (wound care and such) have been known to sell drugs, shoot heroin etc., and they still don't get kicked out!. people are way too obedient of medical personnel, and medical personnel don't know how/want to keep their non-medical opinions to themselves. how and where to sleep is not a medical issue, it's a parenting issue.


----------



## wallacesmum (Jun 2, 2006)

ot - extended bf a child-abuse issue? tell me more! i was just talking to dh about how i think the cosleeping thing is an establishing blame thing so that they can use it to define abuse in cps cases if they need to.

nak


----------



## umami_mommy (May 2, 2004)

when people asked me this i would say "why should a 3 month old be sleeping through the night?" and then i would look at them like they were nuts. it's the same look i would give people when they would ask me if my son was still nursing. "of course he is, why would i prefer he eat yucky food from a jar or box?"

i think people finally stopped cause they were sick of me treating them like the nuts they are.


----------



## massaginmommy (Mar 5, 2005)

I haven't read this whole thread yet. But I just have to say my first co-sleeping child just turned 19 and needless to say he is no longer in our bed and hasn't been for many many many years. But I heard the same thing from people back then about how we would never get him out of our bed. GUESS WHAT??? They are wrong.


----------



## wlcook (Nov 23, 2006)

Well I couldn't agree with you more, "formerluddite". As a nurse, what do you feel would be the most effective way to address the Crouse Hospital issue?

BTW, I just posted an old family photo of my brother (now 41) *pinned* under the bottom rail of his crib.


----------



## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pepe* 
I'm personally in favor of always telling the truth about co-sleeping, "extended" nursing, and so forth, even though it got me scolded by the pediatrician. The more people hear about it (whatever it is), the more common they will realize it is--and if it's something that works for so many people, maybe it isn't so crazy, right?









I think so, too.

Whenever people have asked, I've always answered that dd has no sleeping issues, which I think is true. It never seemed unusual to me that she might wake up during the night and need to be comforted.

When the subject comes up, I readily offer that we cosleep, always saying it with confidence and assurance. Maybe it's my delivery - no one has ever responded in a negative way (they probably know it would be pointless - it's obvious I've made up my mind







)


----------



## wlcook (Nov 23, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 







I think so, too.

Whenever people have asked, I've always answered that dd has no sleeping issues, which I think is true. It never seemed unusual to me that she might wake up during the night and need to be comforted.

When the subject comes up, I readily offer that we cosleep, always saying it with confidence and assurance. Maybe it's my delivery - no one has ever responded in a negative way (they probably know it would be pointless - it's obvious I've made up my mind







)

Does anyone out there have any suggestions that might facilitate a change in hospital policy or at least a change in the verbage on their "fact" sheet that doesn't mislead the public and promote fear as is the case with the current form.

Wendy: Mama to Satchel born 2005


----------



## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wlcook* 
Does anyone out there have any suggestions that might facilitate a change in hospital policy or at least a change in the verbage on their "fact" sheet that doesn't mislead the public and promote fear as is the case with the current form.

Sure, no problem. Here are the "facts" they list on their sheet:


> Your child does not need to sleep with a parent to feel happy and secure.
> Bed sharing with a parent is not quality time.
> Infants who sleep with their parents may not sleep as soundly and may wake up several times per night.
> Bed sharing is not a good solution to your child's sleep problems.


Here is a new and improved fact sheet:


> Your child needs to sleep with a parent to feel happy and secure.
> Bed sharing with a parent is quality time.
> Infants who sleep with their parents may sleep more soundly and may not wake as often per night.
> Bed sharing is a good solution to your child's sleep problems.


How's that? It's just as accurate and scientifically supported as the original document.

Hope that helps







.


----------



## wlcook (Nov 23, 2006)

I'm talking politics here...what I need to know is *WHAT* can be done to manifest change in current hospital policy. Clearly there must be some RNs or MDs in the forum who know the proper channels.

I'm sure we *ALL* agree that the verbage in this "fact" sheet needs to be change. _It shouldn't exist at all as far as I'm concerned, but I need to be realistic._ I'm moving from Syracuse very soon...and I would like to start the ball rolling on this issue before I go.

I thought this forum would be a good place to connect with like-minded, intelligent and loving parents who could brainstorm with me and make changes.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"- Gandhi


----------



## BelgianSheepDog (Mar 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *blessed* 







I think so, too.

Whenever people have asked, I've always answered that dd has no sleeping issues, which I think is true. It never seemed unusual to me that she might wake up during the night and need to be comforted.

When the subject comes up, I readily offer that we cosleep, always saying it with confidence and assurance. Maybe it's my delivery - no one has ever responded in a negative way (they probably know it would be pointless - it's obvious I've made up my mind







)

The fact that you're a surgeon might help too, you know. Some of us lesser mortals can catch a whole lot of hell for telling the truth and don't feel like fighting an uphill battle every single time.


----------



## mammal_mama (Aug 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *formerluddite* 
they'll try to criminalize it next; make it a child abuse issue like they have extended bfing.

For famillies who have the state involved in their lives for any reason -- it already IS often made into an issue. Of course, this depends a lot on the individual caseworker.

Some friends of ours moved to Kansas, and looked into continuing doing foster care there as they had in our state. They gave up because there were so many regulations. They were told that not only was it illegal for them to have foster children in bed with them: in Kansas it's illegal for parents to share sleep with their OWN children as well. Of course, this probably isn't an issue for most Kansas parents, just so long as they don't have caseworkers visiting their homes. And even then, if there's a bed for each child it probably won't even be thought about unless somebody tells the caseworker where the kids REALLY sleep.

I did hear of a Kansas grandfather who had custody of his grandson (I think the gs was three): when the caseworker visited, she told him he had to get a bed for his grandson and quit sleeping with him.


----------



## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BelgianSheepDog* 
The fact that you're a surgeon might help too, you know. Some of us lesser mortals can catch a whole lot of hell for telling the truth and don't feel like fighting an uphill battle every single time.

FWIW, my dd's pediatrician thinks I'm an earthy-crunchy over-coddling, too-attached, under-medicating, under-vaccinating mad momma.

I'm in great company, as far as I'm concerned







!


----------



## formerluddite (Nov 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wlcook* 
I'm talking politics here...what I need to know is *WHAT* can be done to manifest change in current hospital policy. Clearly there must be some RNs or MDs in the forum who know the proper channels.

I'm sure we *ALL* agree that the verbage in this "fact" sheet needs to be change. _It shouldn't exist at all as far as I'm concerned, but I need to be realistic._ I'm moving from Syracuse very soon...and I would like to start the ball rolling on this issue before I go.

I thought this forum would be a good place to connect with like-minded, intelligent and loving parents who could brainstorm with me and make changes.

there are links in this thread to kathy? dettwyler's website, totally research based stuff. james mckenna has a website with safe cosleeping guidelines. "mothering" has its whole issue. if you combine that with a "we support cosleeping" type of petition?... i'm not much of a political animal, and i'm pretty jaded about the likelihood of getting a corporation (which hospitals are) to make changes unless you affect their revenue. i can tell you that most hospitals' latest focus is customer service, because it relates to revenue. maybe if you approach it from that perspective, such as the responses that were happy with st. joe's, the competition. I know here in the bay area my hospital has a reputation as the poorer, dirtier hospital, but you're much less likely to be c-sectioned here than at clean, pricey CPMC across town (except that we're now merging with them... so, so much for that). and we let homebirth CNM midwives who transport stay involved/in the lead, instead of marginalized. i let all my pregnant friends know this, although many still feel "safer" at CPMC because of its overall reputation, and their acceptance of the view that birth is medical crisis that needs intervention.

as far as proper channels, i'm in "ancillary services" as a physical therapist, (my "i hear you're a nurse" comment was partly about how the grapevine transmutes the facts). i'm not too sure of where you go to discuss policy. maybe try a Michael Moore type approach. show up and ask who you can talk to, then when s/he passes the buck move on to the next person up the ladder.


----------

