# Little Girls Growing Up- Whats to much and whats ok



## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Hello. My DD will be 11 next month. She has been stinky since last year, and last summer she got some sports bras, although she doesn't have breasts yet her nubs (that is her word for them not mine) do stick through her shirt. Last night I noticed that she had armpit hair and pubic hair. I started talking to her awhile back about AF and she says she'll pass....that's all you mom..LOL I am going to let her make her own choice on what products she will use or not, and whatever she chooses I will teach her how to use them properly. What is the proper age to allow her to start shaving? At least her armpits, summer is coming. Her legs are not bad yet. And also something that I am conflicted about is personal grooming. As much as I DO NOT want to think about it, it is out there. Times are different from even when I was younger, and I'm only 29. I was in HS when I found out about it..I was embarrassed and got made fun of. My mom is one of the ones that believes it is beautiful, but not me. I am a firm believer on personal grooming. Has anyone else ever thought about this? Would you ever talk to your DD about this? Any suggestions? I just don't know. Of all of my friends I have the oldest child by at least 4 years, so I cannot get an opinion there, and I know where my mom stands. Any advise/suggestions/real life experiences on these topics would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

**The only edited part of the post is below, which I added to try to clear up some confusion.**

I am editing this post to clear up the confusion. When I say personal grooming I am speaking about shaving your lady bits. This is the new norm and has been since 1997. IMO besides drugs, being Peer Pressured into doing something just so you will be accepted and not teased for being different than all of the other girls is the worst type of peer pressure any young girl in HS should have to endure. It makes them feel that they have to do things that they know isn't right or could make them look bad just to stop the ridicule from their peers. I wish someone would have informed me that shaved lady bits were the new normal, it would have saved me a lot of tears from being made fun of for it. With some of the feedback I have gotten on the original post I have decided that in time I will tell my DD about this. In a few years, I am not talking about when the weather breaks and I teach her how to shave her pits/legs. I as her mother will know when the time is right for her, and will handle the matter with her. This may not be right for everybody but I really wish that my mom would have told me things like this. While it may seem unconventional to even bring this up with your children, and it may not be right for you, times have changed since some of you have graduated. I was a freshman in 1997, and groomed lady bits have been the norm for all of the younger generation since then. Who knows someday the au' natural look may come back. But I don't see it happening. This should not be taboo anymore. This is a real situation that affects more young girls lives that one could possibly imagine.


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## 3lilchunklins (Feb 22, 2012)

I am also wondering at what age is it appropriate to let them start shaving?

My DD is 8 and a half. She's already asked about shaving her legs, I feel she's way too young. But IDK what to tell her when she asks how old she has to be before I will allow her to...
She's also already got budding in the bussom area. So she wears the little bras that are more like half an undershirt.
I got AF at 10, so I'm afraid she might be young when it starts for her too. We've talked about that pretty openly.
But as far as grooming goes, yes I always have to remind her to brush her hair before we go out. And frequently remind her to wash the areas that tend to ommit offensive odors. As I've already noticed that she gets BO.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

I'm not sure what you mean by "grooming" specifically, since you say you "found out about it" in high school, but I'll offer my own thoughts and experiences.

I was 11 in summer when my sisters ran a bath for me and insisted I get in it, almost to the point of depositing me in it themselves. (Oh, my! It must have been bad!) Later, during track season in 7th grade, a friend told me I had "BO" and needed to shower after track meets. It simply didn't occur to me, but it didn't take long to get the point.

Beyond basic grooming: bathing, brushing teeth, I don't really mind what my daughters choose to do. I shave my legs when warm weather arrives, I rarely shave under my arms, I never wear make up, I use deodorant when I go out and about and wear clean clothes and bathe regularly. I wouldn't mind if they started shaving at 11yo. I wouldn't mind some makeup if they really wanted at that age. I started shaving regularly around 13yo after being fickle about it for a year or so, stopped regular shaving around 19yo. I'm 44.

If they never wanted to shave, that's fine, too.


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

My daughter is 11 and in all these situations my take has been to let her decide what she wants to do. The preteen/teen years can be tough enough, if shaving will make her more comfortable then so be it. I just make sure that there is always a good supply of fresh razors in the bathroom so she doesn't even have to ask.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

BTW, I didn't answer the poll because I didn't jibe with the wording of the question (I'm guessing personal grooming means shaving?) Of course I would tell her about it. I never even had to try and broach the subject because my girls have already noticed that many women have "clean" legs and make up and hairstyles. Of course it is part of the discussion.

Would I say it's necessary? No. Would I say it is a personal choice? Yes. Would I mention that armpit hair can retain odor a bit more than a shaven underarm? Yes, I would. Would I mention body odor? Yes I would, in a non-judmental way (there is b.o. and then there's BO!)

But just because I like bodies au natural, for the most part, doesn't mean I wouldn't tell them about their options.

ETA: The American Girl book "Care and Keeping of You" has a lovely section on shaving and other grooming subjects that I think is helpful, informative and balanced.


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## blessedwithboys (Dec 8, 2004)

I think, and I may be wrong, that the OP is referring to the shaving off of pubic hair. Do people actually teach their kids to do that?!


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

OK, if that were the case, then I think there are a few bases that parents needn't feel obliged to cover. If there was some self-consciousness with bathing suits, then of course I would talk about that. I'm conscious of that myself, and prefer to double check that "all of me" is contained within the suit. (HA! I'd have no qualms swimming nude, but pubes sticking out the sides of bathing suits make me feel self conscious!) Beyond that... Brazilian waxes, more thorough shaving, decorations and adornments, etc. et al..... no, I don't need to cover *all* the possible bases. I'd speak frankly if asked, though, as best as I could. Honestly, for some of that I couldn't help one bit!

I think this might be a generational thing, to some extent, and I'd hope that I can help my girls feel comfortable no matter what they do, so their decisions were based as much on personal preference and as little on peer pressure as possible.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blessedwithboys*
> 
> I think, and I may be wrong, that the OP is referring to the shaving off of pubic hair. Do people actually teach their kids to do that?!


That's what I assumed the OP was referring to as well. I have no idea whether people teach their kids to do that, but I think this thread is pretty clear evidence that OP should find clearer terminology (like maybe "shaving off pubic hair") if she decides to discuss it with her daughter.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

*


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

I've never heard shaving pubic hair referred to as grooming either.









In my area, I would say that by age 15 about half of girls are shaving their pubic region. By age 18 it's a significant majority. I'm a female GP who specializes in adolescent and sexual health care, so I see a lot of teen genitalia! My impression is that girls start shaving their pubic areas around the time they start to think of themselves as sexual beings, since it's now perceived to be part of what makes one sexually attractive. It's not necessarily *when they become sexually active*.... often before that by a fair bit, but usually as they are beginning to imagine themselves in the role of sexual partner. And of course there is a lot of variability: some girls never shave, some do for a while and then stop, some start older, or younger. But I guess what I'm saying is that in general it's a choice that girls tend to make later in adolescence. And since no one but she is likely to see her pubic area for a lot of years, I wouldn't broach the subject at all at this point. If she asks, say "Some people shave that area. Others don't. It's a matter of personal preference." But since she, like most girls, seems a little intimidated by the prospect of coping with the whole new can of worms that adolescence opens up, I wouldn't heap even more on her when it can wait. Shaving legs and pits is different, because those tend to be seen and commented upon by peers.

I will second (third?) the American Girl book recommendation. Since it sounds like you didn't get any effective modelling about talking to children about body science and sexuality, I'll make a really strong pitch for you to read it aloud, to your dd. Let her doodle or wash dishes while you read if it makes her feel less uncomfortable. It will give you a scripted way of conveying information, and give both of you practice at using appropriate language and hearing appropriate language about these topics. It will present communication about adolescent body changes as an important facet of your relationship, it will allow you to know exactly what information she has been exposed to, and it will give her the opportunity to ask questions.

Meg Hickling's book "More Speaking of Sex" is an excellent guide to help parents talk to their kids about reproductive science and sexuality. It'll help you arrive at some good choices and approaches in talking to your dd as she moves on to needing to know about sexuality as a teen. I really applaud you for making the effort to do a better job than your parents did with you. I think these two books will be good tools to help you along the way.

Miranda


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3LilChunklins*
> 
> I am also wondering at what age is it appropriate to let them start shaving?
> 
> ...


So since I made this post I called my sister and asked what she is going to do with my niece when the time comes for her to hit puberty. My niece is in 1st grade this year. She said by 5th grade if she wants to shave then she will let her. My husband is not my daughters biological father but has been there since right after my daughter was born. To him she is his and to her, that is her daddy. He is st stressed about her growing up and it is hilarious. I get a good laugh at it because he isn't the one who has to have these conversations with her. I think I have come to the decision that when it gets warm out I am going to teach her how to shave. I do not want her to get made fun of for having hairy pits/legs. Kids are so cruel this day and age. My daughter gets picked on all of the time by mainly the girls but sometimes the boys. I keep trying to tell her the boys tease because they like her and the girls tease because they are jealous of her. Everyday it is a struggle for her as she feels so sad. So I think that by giving the jealous girls one less thing to pick on her over might make a difference. From everything that I have read on the internet today the average age seems to be 10-11. I also found out that her school doesn't talk to them about puberty, IMO this should be mandatory for 4-5 graders, because where I live the parents don't give a hoot about where their kids are or what they are doing, so they definately will not be learning from mom or dad. With me being as young as I am, I'm just trying to gather all of the info I can from women who have been through this and can give me some advice. At least I only have to do it once because she is an only child!! Thank god!


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Quote:


> I remember I was in 6-7 grade I think when I got mine and I was the only one.


I highly doubt that! I don't doubt that at the time you thought you were the only one, but that's actually a pretty average age to begin menstruating. In the 1980s the average age for menarche was about 12.5. It's possibly a couple of months younger now: that's open to debate.

Miranda


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moominmamma*
> 
> I highly doubt that! I don't doubt that at the time you thought you were the only one, but that's actually a pretty average age to begin menstruating. In the 1980s the average age for menarche was about 12.5. It's possibly a couple of months younger now: that's open to debate.
> 
> Miranda


I did say 6-7th grade "I Think". I did talk to my sister earlier and asked her if she remembered when exactly I started AF and she said it was the summer going into 6th grade. So I was 11 and yes I was one of the select few that had started menstruating at this time.


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

My sister said she remembers fondly because I was evil and unbearable.


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rachelsmama*
> 
> That's what I assumed the OP was referring to as well. I have no idea whether people teach their kids to do that, but I think this thread is pretty clear evidence that OP should find clearer terminology (like maybe "shaving off pubic hair") if she decides to discuss it with her daughter.


This topic is a little bigger than some may realize. That is why I asked. I agree that I could have used clearer terminology to an extent, but I think the youth nowadays do refer to it as "personal grooming". But I did not just put "Should I teach my DD to shave here pubes", because I just signed up TODAY and this was my 2nd post. I posted pretty much the same post in the wrong place. And somebody did post my first post ever on this site to this thread. I guess it is my fault, I was not trying to offend anybody by being so frank. I don't quite know what or if there are limits to what you can and cannot say. I did not want to get kicked off when I feel that by being on this site I can learn valuable information from those who have been through these things before as I have not. My DD is my one and only child, and I did not have the guidance from my parents about any of this stuff when I was coming up. Like I said, I just didn't want to cross a boundary and have people thinking I'm a...perv or something. It was a legitimate question. And yes nowadays shaving your pubes is the norm. Apparently I missed this memo when I was in HS, when I was a freshman I suppose is when this started, and yes I was known as "The Bush Lady", amongst other horrible names. It was very hurtful, and I just do not want my dd to ever be teased over something so stupid. I do agree that it is a personal preference, but I also believe that this is the new norm. I was just looking to see if anybody out there has ever talked to their child about this before. That is it and that is all. If I have any other questions I will make sure that I try to use more blunt terminology.


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blessedwithboys*
> 
> I think, and I may be wrong, that the OP is referring to the shaving off of pubic hair. Do people actually teach their kids to do that?!


I would assume that there are some women out there that would teach them to do that. Like I said, with my generation it is the norm. I obviously wouldn't bring up the topic to my daughter on the day I teach her to shave her pits/legs. But when she is older it is something that I will let her know about, she can shave it or not, I don't care. For all I know that by the time she is 15-18 (and hopefully STILL ABSTINENT, the au' natural look will be the norm again. Only time will tell.


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## Ragana (Oct 15, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onlychldisagirl*
> 
> Like I said, with my generation it is the norm.


WOW! I am about 15 yrs. older than you - and you really opened my eyes here! I had no idea, actually. Good to note, since my DD is 14 and heading into high school. That is a type of peer pressure I never thought of!! What a difference 10 years can make.

BTW, I just wanted to say it's great that you're being so open about these things with your daughter. When my DD was that age, she would try to nix those conversations, too - bras were gross, mom don't talk about it, etc. I just kept bringing things up matter of factly & started keeping pads, tampons, razors, deodorant, etc. supplied in the bathroom. She is still very private about it, but goes and takes what she needs now. It's an approach that has worked for us.

PS I agree that Care and Keeping of You is good.


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moominmamma*
> 
> I've never heard shaving pubic hair referred to as grooming either.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your post. It was very helpful. I could have worded it differently but I did not want to offend anybody. I have decided that when the weather gets warmer I will teach her how to shave her pits/legs. She will be 11 when the weather breaks and by all means I am not ready to start thinking about her having sex or thinking of herself as a sexual being. It makes me feel ill even though it will happen sooner or later. She can't stay a baby forever right? Part of the reason why I brought the subject up in the first place is because she asked if there was a way to make it go away as when she sits the hairs get stuck and then they pull and she says it hurts. She is adjusting very well to this all so far. I just do not like to lie to my child, and if she asks me a question I like to try to give an honest answer. I will be going to get the American Girl Book that everybody is recommending. Thank you for the advice and your opinion. Just the thought of my precious baby turning into a young woman scares the holy h*** out of me!!!!! Heres to making it through adolescent puberty, alive and with all of my hair!


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragana*
> 
> WOW! I am about 15 yrs. older than you - and you really opened my eyes here! I had no idea, actually. Good to note, since my DD is 14 and heading into high school. That is a type of peer pressure I never thought of!! What a difference 10 years can make.
> 
> ...


IMO peer pressure is the worst form of bullying that there is. It sucks yes, is it fair? No...but I really wish I would have been in the loop about this when I was a freshman. It would have saved me a lot of heartache and disappointment.

While getting pregnant while I was still in HS, and knowing how hard it was for me and not graduating or going to college was really hard, and for a while in my DD's life I was not a good mom, some might argue horrible. But I realized that she is my angel and I will work everyday of my life to make up for it. I know that I will never get that time back, I can only work to better my relationship with my DD. She now knows all of my struggles and feels open to come to me with things like this. And it feels good. I want my DD to do amazing things with her life, and she can with my guidance throughout her life to know right from wrong and accepting the consequences with everything that she does. She has big dreams and as long as she is fully informed about things like this, and what could happen if you do some things, I feel that it might limit some of the things that she may feel that she should do to fit in with others. She is a very smart and amazing, crazy talented little girl with endless opportunities.

And just as I am sitting here typing this she came and gave me a hug, told me that she loves me and that she is going to make me so proud of her, just wait and see!!
Thanks for taking the time to read all of this, but it really does feel good to know that I possibly helped you and your DD


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## Ragana (Oct 15, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onlychldisagirl*
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to read all of this, but it really does feel good to know that I possibly helped you and your DD




Good for you for making the best of your difficult situation and turning things around! I hear you about girls (mine are 10 and 14) growing up - wonderful, but nerve-wracking! I experienced some bullying/meanness as well when I was younger, so I am also grateful to at least be aware of trends so we can talk about things when they come up. I was somewhat clueless at that age.

Miranda - Can I ask you a question if this isn't derailing the thread? I went and bookmarked the book you mentioned above. It sounds good. What do you think of Our Bodies, Our Selves? I was handed that in middle school, and i think it may have been a bit much, so I haven't bought it for my DD.


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

I have revised the poll question as well. Defined "personal grooming" and added more options for answers. Please take the poll if you read this page.


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blessedwithboys*
> 
> I think, and I may be wrong, that the OP is referring to the shaving off of pubic hair. Do people actually teach their kids to do that?!


People should teach their kids about this, seeming as having perfectly groomed lady bits has been the new norm since 1997. This is one of the biggest forms of peer pressure out there for a young lady to have to deal with. The pressure to fit in with all of the other girls and the unrealistic expectations that the young men have of what a young lady/woman should look like because of something they saw in a xxx movie online. This type of peer pressure for a young girl can be one of the toughest forms of "bullying" they have to endure in HS, and that desire to try to fit in without being properly informed can lead them to make choices that may have some pretty serious consequences they didn't consider, in the end all of their hopes and dreams for their life could end up just being hopes and dreams and not a reality like they had planned all their lives for. I may have had my daughter right after HS but the one thing that I am grateful for is that I am 19 years older than her, and I can relate more because this is how it was when I was in school. The kids are not going to get any better. Todays youth is only going to get worse, with parents that don't care what their kids do or where they go or who they are associating with. Again this is just my opinion, based on what my little sister and I personally had to endure during HS, and we know other girls that this has happened to as well.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragana*
> 
> Miranda - Can I ask you a question if this isn't derailing the thread? I went and bookmarked the book you mentioned above. It sounds good. What do you think of Our Bodies, Our Selves? I was handed that in middle school, and i think it may have been a bit much, so I haven't bought it for my DD.


I think OBOS is a pretty great book, but although I haven't seen the updated versions, the original was definitely a product of its times and its market ... so, most suitable for an adult or near-adult woman energized by feminist ideals and comfortable with herself as a sexual being. I don't think it's at all appropriate for peri-adolescent girls as a substitute for, or as a precursor to, a gentler more developmentally aware approach to sex education. I completely agree with you: for all but a few middle school girls it would be way too much information, way too overwhelming at that stage.

Meg Hickling's "Speaking of Sex" book is lovely because it deals with all stages of parenting, from toddlerhood through primary school to early adolescence and beyond. She makes some really important points really clearly, points that aren't always obvious to all parents: why it's important to use anatomically correct terminology even with young children, what kids tend to hear via the playground and how young they hear it -- and how terrifying misinformation can be, what sorts of fears adolescents tend to have and yet are mortified to voice aloud, how to tell when you've said too much to a grade-schooler (nothing sinister: you just notice their eyes have glazed over and they're not paying attention anymore... in other words, don't worry about telling them too much), why there should ideally be no such thing as "The Talk" (because you've been talking openly about sex in developmentally appropriate ways since before they can remember, so it's an ongoing thing, and because the conversation definitely needs to have started before your child reaches the teenaged years of peer orientation where they think they know everything, are invincible, and trust their peers more for 'real' information than they do their parents), and what to do if despite her suggestions about how to go about it you simply can't bring yourself to speak openly with your child about sex, and so on.

Miranda


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onlychldisagirl*
> 
> People should teach their kids about this, seeming as having perfectly groomed lady bits has been the new norm since 1997.


Definitely a cultural/regional variation to this. Where I live it's only been the majority of girls who are shaved in the last 6-8 years.

Miranda


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moominmamma*
> 
> Definitely a cultural/regional variation to this. Where I live it's only been the majority of girls who are shaved in the last 6-8 years.
> 
> Miranda


Might I ask you where you are from?


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

The western part of Canada, just a smidge north of the US border.

Miranda

ETA: What happened in 1997?


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## 3lilchunklins (Feb 22, 2012)

Okay wow, this thread is entirely different from what I originally thought! LOL

Ok, I doubt I would discuss this with my DD. If she brought it up than I would be completely open with her. But I would not be the one bringing it up KWIM?
When I mentioned shaving it was in reference to arm pits and legs...

Yes I do agree that it is the norm these days. I've probably been shaving since I was 15 except for when I'm too big and pregnant to see what I'm doing lol


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moominmamma*
> 
> The western part of Canada, just a smidge north of the US border.
> 
> ...


Well I can see where there is probably a cultural/regional difference between Canada and the Chicagoland Suburbs. Although I have never been to Canada I can only assume that this is the case. Nothing in particular happened in 1997, where I live that is when having shaven lady bits became the new trend. The must have shaven lady bits, Naperville's new norm. I blame it on the misguided boys who get their unrealistic idea of what a woman should look like or what is sexy about a woman from looking at x-rated videos/magazines and then expecting these young girls who don't get paid to show their bits to look and act like the ones that do get paid for it. And the girls went for it. It is a shame really. It makes me sad that some girls/women think that they have to be like this to be accepted. I was never popular and wasn't really interested in boys at this time, but that changed and it was just like a cruel joke. It is amazing just how fast a rumor about ones lady bits can travel around a school of 3000 students. Everyone was talking about my parts. Absolutely mortifying!!! Freshman year was a nightmare!!! And thats why I am so for mothers speaking to their kids about this, when the time is right that is. I have decided that I will use all of these experiences to try to prepare my daughter for situations she might come upon. And to give her the option to choose her destiny. As much as it pains me to think about, the odds of her holding her "V-Card" until marriage are very un-likey, but I think that by her knowing about this may save her from the ultimate humiliation I had for not being informed. I hope this makes sense, I am trying to word it right.


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3LilChunklins*
> 
> Okay wow, this thread is entirely different from what I originally thought! LOL
> 
> ...


I am new to this site and am not fully aware of what is allowed and what is not, and I was trying to put it in a way so that I didn't unintentionally offend anybody. HS was pure H*** for me, not only because of this issue..My mother never told me that I would be getting a period or anything. I think that are where some of my views come from. I want her to know everything, and to hear it from me, not somebody at school or on the bus. Like I said my DD is pretty comfortable coming to me with everything, and I want it to stay like that. I had my DD at 19, so with me being so young I get what is going on. And she knows this. I know that when I feel that she is ready for me to share my experience on this issue with her, I will find a way to do it. But the odds of her coming to me and saying "mom it was just to much going on down there and it had to go...is that ok?" is probably what is going to end up happening. Just yesterday she said her hairs get stuck and they pull when she sits down, and that she wishes she could do something about it. If I had to make an educated guess about it, she will have figured to shave before I feel she is ready for me to talk to her about things like this. This is one of the worst types of peer pressure that a girl could ever have to deal with in school, and they are usually to embarrassed to tell their mom. But I feel that all mothers need to know about this so that they can make an effort with their DD's to make sure that everything is ok. Having nobody to talk to is horrible, I know from experience. I am just trying to be better at this part of parenting than my mother was.


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3LilChunklins*
> 
> Okay wow, this thread is entirely different from what I originally thought! LOL
> 
> ...


I will agree, after being humiliated for being au' natural and feeling ashamed for not knowing better not a day has gone by that my lady bits have not been perfectly groomed. This happened to my little sister as well. And we didn't even go to HS at the same time. And we both know other people that this has happened to.


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onlychldisagirl*
> 
> I will agree, after being humiliated for being au' natural and feeling ashamed for not knowing better not a day has gone by that my lady bits have not been perfectly groomed. This happened to my little sister as well. And we didn't even go to HS at the same time. And we both know other people that this has happened to.


I think you're right that having the discussion (or at least being prepared to have it) is a good idea. I think a good addition to the discussion would be making it crystal clear that she doesn't have to discuss her pubic hair with her classmates, and if she does she most certainly isn't obliged to tell the truth, and that while she might choose to follow the trend, most of the "reasons" for shaving that are probably circulating in school are utter nonsense, it's really just a matter of fashion.


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rachelsmama*
> 
> I think you're right that having the discussion (or at least being prepared to have it) is a good idea. I think a good addition to the discussion would be making it crystal clear that she doesn't have to discuss her pubic hair with her classmates, and if she does she most certainly isn't obliged to tell the truth, and that while she might choose to follow the trend, most of the "reasons" for shaving that are probably circulating in school are utter nonsense, it's really just a matter of fashion.


My thoughts exactly. Thanks


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

You know what? When my mom was in high school, it was considered disgusting for a girl to have natural eyebrows. You were supposed to pluck them out and draw on your ideal eyebrows with a pencil. Of course my mom did not want to be teased, so she was very fastidious about her brows. When fashions changed, she couldn't get them to grow back, and has been using eyebrow pencil ever since. When I was a teenager, she was very conflicted about whether to urge me to follow the current eyebrow fashion or to caution me about the risk of plucking being permanent, and wound up doing a lot of both. It was confusing and made me nervous that everyone was talking about my eyebrows behind my back!! And the fact is that for my generation (I'm 10 years older than you) eyebrows were not really a focus; if they weren't super-bushy or invisible, nobody mentioned them much; it was hard for me even to determine what WAS the fashion in eyebrows looking at the teen magazines because they rarely talked about eyebrows and the girls in the photos seemed to have, like, normal eyebrows--nothing like the 1961 extreme!

This issue is somewhat different because pubic hair is not publicly visible like eyebrows, and because shaving or waxing it is unlikely to prevent it from ever growing back if you change your mind. But I think that assuming you know "the new normal" because of your experience 17 years ago is questionable. While Moominmama's info supports your feeling, standards surely vary across different parts of the country, and standards about acceptable bullying topics also vary. (In my high school, although it was considered normal to shave any hair that could stick out of a swimsuit, if a girl was seen in a swimsuit with hair sticking out this was considered a Very Private Topic to be whispered about until it was decided which of her closest friends would discreetly speak to her about it--nobody would have been teased about that.)

I was extensively bullied when I was 10-13 years old because I had waist-length hair that (gasp!) wasn't permed and (GASP!!!) didn't have bangs, in the era when foofy hairsprayed bangs 4 inches tall were "the new normal". I finally cut my hair much shorter and made long bangs with a skatery gel wave, as a compromise between the way I wanted to look and the way my peers wanted me to look. It reduced the bullying, but it didn't make me feel better about myself--it made me feel that I was being forced to be fake instead of being allowed to be myself.

This type of decision is one of the most difficult things about the preteen and teen years. As my son gets into this age group, my approach is to talk about this KIND of decision, how it feels, how we work it out, and to use my own and my parents' personal stories as examples--not to assume that the trends that were important for us are the ones that will be important for him or that he needs to make the same decisions we did.

When my daughter is 11, she'll know whether or not I shave my pubic hair because she'll be seeing me naked once in a while as we're changing into swimsuits and such. We probably will have had several conversations over the course of her life about how adults have hair in some places children don't and how some adults decide to shave certain hair while others do not--this has come up a number of times with my son, starting when he was about 3. As I see her leg hair getting thicker, I'll talk to her about the areas of the body one might choose to shave and offer to teach her safe technique if she would like to shave--and yes, that would include explaining how to shave her labia without cutting herself, because I'd hate to have her suffer such an injury!--but *which areas she shaves is entirely her decision.*

It sounds like you have a conflict with your mom about whether shaving pubic hair is okay, and you also have a strong belief that it is "better" to shave it. I think it's important not to push your ideas onto your daughter. If you really believe this:

Quote:


> I blame it on the misguided boys who get their unrealistic idea of what a woman should look like or what is sexy about a woman from looking at x-rated videos/magazines and then expecting these young girls who don't get paid to show their bits to look and act like the ones that do get paid for it. And the girls went for it. It is a shame really. It makes me sad that some girls/women think that they have to be like this to be accepted.


then you believe it's bad for girls to feel pressured into shaving and that the reasons for doing it are unrealistic, slutty, oppressive standards. In that case, why are you "a firm believer on personal grooming" who believes that a normal adult female body is not "beautiful"? It's time to rethink that and try to have a more positive attitude for your daughter. That doesn't mean you would forbid her to shave, either--it means you would encourage her to do it because SHE prefers it, not because she feels like it's the only way to avoid being bullied or like she's obligated to look like a porn star.

I'm sorry you and your sister were so horribly bullied, but I think it's crucial to understand that that was NOT YOUR FAULT. The people who bullied you were SICK AND WRONG. If anything like this happens to your daughter, I hope you'll address it with the school and/or the bullies and their parents, instead of feeling ashamed of your daughter's natural body.


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## 3lilchunklins (Feb 22, 2012)

This might be kinda OT, but I figured I would ask...
Ladies who shave, how do you handle the razor burn!?!?

I have never found anything that works except for let it heal. Basically that means, let it grow for at least a week maybe two, depending on the severity... Has anyone found a solution?


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

P.S. One thing that has changed a lot in most American public schools since 1997 is a vast increase in administrative awareness that bullying is bad and ought to be stopped. In a quick Google search, I found the procedure for reporting bullying in your local high schools. It's probably not perfect or anything, but schools take bullying a lot more seriously than they used to.

Even back when I was in school, a puberty-related bullying issue was taken very seriously by my school: In sixth grade, some girls started snapping other girls' bra straps, or unfastening girls' bras through their shirts, or trying to do this and feeling that the girl wasn't wearing a bra and telling everyone about it. Within a week, boys were doing this too. A parent complained (it was never made public whose parent it was) and the entire sixth grade was called into single-sex meetings with a teacher of the same sex. The girls were told that this was not funny, it was very wrong, part of the responsibility of becoming grownup women is to be proud of our bodies and not tease each other about them, and it is up to each girl to decide when she is ready for a bra and very rude to make fun of anyone for not needing a bra yet or to suggest that anyone is icky for not wearing one. According to my guy friend, the boys were told that this was not funny, it was very wrong, they must always respect a lady's dignity and not do any such embarrassing thing to her, girls grow breasts at different times and to different sizes and it doesn't mean anything about their personality or morals, and if the boys weren't yet going through private changes themselves they would be soon and they wouldn't want anyone grabbing and commenting on their privates. The whole thing totally stopped (except for some of the gossip about who does or doesn't wear a bra). I think this was an awesome way for the school to handle it, and I think any school where girls are being teased about their pubic hair should do the same thing.


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## LTurtle (Aug 7, 2012)

I just want to chime in on a couple things;

Pubic shaving may be the norm in some places now, but it is not universal. I was also in high school in 1997 and while some of my friends shaved their lady bits many did not. They did all shave legs & pits & bikini line. Most of my adult women friends still do shave those areas, aged 30-50, but not usually their bush. I have never shaved my legs or bush, and only occasionally shaved my pits/bikini line when I was younger. No one has ever made fun of me about it at any age, though I do get questions sometimes about "why not". I live in Portland, Oregon.
Oh, also the comments and questions that I have gotten about body hair have all been from women. None of the (admittedly many) men I have been intimate with have cared at all.

Secondly, I do think that pubic shaving falls under the heading of "personal grooming" for most young people today. As such I think it is worth mentioning to young people coming of age, whether you are pro shaving, anti shaving or ambivalent. I think it is important to put it in its context as a trend (which was unfortunately started by porn) and at an age that feels appropriate to each child. I would NOT choose to teach my daughter to shave, or present it to my daughter as something she should do. Mostly because I am generally anti shaving, and I know my daughters favorite auntie will teach her if asked.

The third thing I want to mention is that I have never been in a social situation where someone I wasn't close to (family, dear friend, sexual partner) would see my private parts. Perhaps for competitive athletes, or folks that go to the gym, this is different. But I think that the idea that kids will be changing in front of an audience in a school locker room is outdated.


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## 3lilchunklins (Feb 22, 2012)

Yea, I was kind of wondering why everyone knew about the OP and her pubic hair status... I never cared what any of my friends did with theirs nor did they care about mine. But as teenage girls we of course did end up talking about it, which is why I consider it normal. But if someone didn't shave no one made a big deal about it...

Unless it was a boy she was "messing around" with that told everyone else.. IDK

I too don't get the significance of 1997, I was only 11 then.And certainly was oblivious to the fact that shaving was even an option. It was at least 2001 before it was something that I felt was "necessary".


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3LilChunklins*
> 
> Yea, I was kind of wondering why everyone knew about the OP and her pubic hair status...


I see that episode as more of a bullying issue and less of a personal grooming issue; I think the bullying, perhaps even the exact same rumour, could likely have happened just as easily even if she had been shaving her pubic area. Conformity in a private area that no one sees is no protection against bullying.

Miranda


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## 3lilchunklins (Feb 22, 2012)

Agreed.

I'm kinda having a hard time with justifying telling your DD to shave there for that reason. Like whose going to see it and why should it matter?
I don't really agree with the whole concept of " if she's going to be peer pressured/ bullied about it, than she should be prepared to conform" (not *such* a big deal with this issues in particular, but just that train of thought)
Because what happens when she's peer pressured to smoke a cigarette, try weed, go get drunk, sleep around...?
I feel like kids should be talked to about peer pressure and how to make the *right* choice as opposed to give in to the crowd as to avoid being picked on.

I often hear similar arguments made regarding circumsion. Like oh what will everyone else think and he's going to get bullied because his is different ... ya know?
I guess I just have a really hard time with the ideology that you should conform in any and all avenues in life to avoid unpleasant experiences...
I would personally rather arm my children to stand up for what they believe in,even if they are the only one standing. (Again its not really about the shaving thing, but what lessons are we teaching by preparing our kids to conform in the face of opposition?)


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## rachelsmama (Jun 20, 2005)

I understood it to be a case of warning the daughter that some people do shave there, and that some people make a big deal about it, so that the daughter could begin forming her own opinion about the issue before anybody starts badgering her about it.


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## 3lilchunklins (Feb 22, 2012)

I think its totally fine to prepare them, I actually feel like that is our *job* as mothers. But likewise, they should be prepared to NOT conform as well. Its not the topic of the thread but the principle that I'm having trouble with.


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## IsaFrench (Mar 22, 2008)

"be prepared to NOT confrom as well"

i agree with that & feel that's the most important issue ....

am sorry that OP was bullied at school

am a bit surprised about her decision to talk to her daughter about the issue as well as the reasons she gives ... i would imagine that for the mom (OP) to discuss the issue with a third person (a kind of trained councellor, a psychologist or someone trained in discussing parenting issues ) that would help her not to pass on her anxieties and hang ups about the precise situation in which she suffered in the past ....

am in another country and it's not quite the norm to shave pubis here (learned about that trend and its origin -the porn industry mainly- from a MDC post a few years back)

+ when i had chemo and lost all pubic hair too ... nobody at the hospital ever mentionned it at all, nor warned me that it would happen when my hair would fall ..... & and i discovered that i definitely didn't like the feeling of "no hair down there" .... it didn't feel "normal" to me .....

after reading a MDC post a few years back i understand now that it's much of a personnal preference ....didn't occur to discuss the issue with DD1 (turning 15 soon) who has a razor and only shaves her armpits and lower legs .(so far)...

but then ... i'm the "bad mom" who insisted that she didn't need a cell phone nearly all the way through middle school (i might one of the few parents out of 900 in middle school WITHOUT a cell phone & i still think that the school ALSO needs to be prepared to interact with parents without a cell phone ...)

the "oh ...but everybody else is doing it" line doesn't work much with me (to the regret of my children ... but i don't think they are irremediably traumatised by my attitude ...)

i would think that standing up for the right to be different AND not be bullied about it is one of the abilities i would like to foster/teach my children when i think of which lifeskill i would like them to learn whilst they live with me .....

,


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

I wanted to add quickly that while the pubic hair shaving was beyond my time, for the most part anyway, shaving legs and pits was and is the norm. So, when my then-boyfriend-now-dh first saw me naked, he was quietly startled by an unshaven body. He told me that later how different it seemed at first. But by then (I met him when I was 25) I was fully embodied in myself, and didn't even think twice that he even noticed it. I had been hanging around hippies and Deadheads for whom being unshaven was the norm, it never occurred to me that he wasn't quite of this crowd, and certainly the ladies he had dated weren't quite in this crowd, either.

Not as quick as I expected, but the point is that one can mention what the fashion is when it isn't entirely apparent, but if our daughters grow up and strong and resilient and embodied as I managed to become despite my upbringing, the best men (or ladies for some of our daughters) will adjust. I'm sure my dh is not the only one who views porn, and will know more about "personal grooming" than I, but the fact remains that in the end, I'm the one in the bed with him ("One in hand is worth two in the bush?" Sorry, couldn't resist!). He looks nothing like a porn star, either, and I'm not disappointed! The best men won't be disappointed, if your personality extends beyond....well.... you get the picture.

ETA: After reading this thread and getting a little more up-to-date on the issue, I think if the need came up, I would say something to the effect that some girls do shave or wax down there, so don't be surprised. And to stress that to shave or not is fine, it's the reason that's important I think. For fashion? Preference? Comfort? Yes (though I find even shaving my bikini line distinctly uncomfortable). Peer pressure? Low self-esteem? No.


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3LilChunklins*
> 
> This might be kinda OT, but I figured I would ask...
> Ladies who shave, how do you handle the razor burn!?!?
> ...


They sell a cream for redness and irritation. I know they sell it at walmart by the razors and such. It does work, for me at least. Another thing is to not have a dull razor. And don't touch up everyday, try every 2-3 days.


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rachelsmama*
> 
> I understood it to be a case of warning the daughter that some people do shave there, and that some people make a big deal about it, so that the daughter could begin forming her own opinion about the issue before anybody starts badgering her about it.


YOU UNDERSTAND PERFECTLY!!!!! When I originally started this thread I didn't know it would be such a big deal. Some people will never understand, and some might. That's ok. I had just wanted to know had anyone ever spoken to their children about this..


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LTurtle*
> 
> I just want to chime in on a couple things;
> 
> ...


I never said that this is universal. I live in the next town over from where I went to school, and the kids out here are outrageous!!!!! My bullying started from what would've been my first sexual encounter..It made me very self conscious, so I shaved. IMO it is more sanitary, and more comfortable to not have a big bush of hair between my legs. Im not sure what you mean by "but I think that the idea that kids will be changing in front of an audience in a school locker is outdated" but where I am at they do.


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SweetSilver*
> 
> I wanted to add quickly that while the pubic hair shaving was beyond my time, for the most part anyway, shaving legs and pits was and is the norm. So, when my then-boyfriend-now-dh first saw me naked, he was quietly startled by an unshaven body. He told me that later how different it seemed at first. But by then (I met him when I was 25) I was fully embodied in myself, and didn't even think twice that he even noticed it. I had been hanging around hippies and Deadheads for whom being unshaven was the norm, it never occurred to me that he wasn't quite of this crowd, and certainly the ladies he had dated weren't quite in this crowd, either.
> 
> ...


Valid points. My hubby doesn't look like a porn star either! And thats ok because he is sexy as h*** to me!! When I posted this I was trying to see if anybody had ever talked to their daughter about this..Then I shared my experiences. My daughter knows that she is perfect the way God made her. I will never tell my DD hey go shave your vag because that isn't cool. When I feel that she is old/mature enough I will find a way to talk about it with her. Her decision will never be forced but I will tell her of my experiences.


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## moominmamma (Jul 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onlychldisagirl*
> 
> Im not sure what you mean by "but I think that the idea that kids will be changing in front of an audience in a school locker is outdated" but where I am at they do.


But required to shower, and/or change out of their undergarments, such that their breasts and genitals are exposed? I assume not, else when you went to school you would have known that shaving had become the norm amongst your peer group. Which you obviously didn't.

Miranda


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## LTurtle (Aug 7, 2012)

Onlychild,

I wasn't disputing what you said, but wanted to point out that there are variations. Mostly for the sake of other (maybe older?) mamas who may read this and be surprised or concerned.

Also, I get the impression that people used to change clothes for PE in a group locker room at pretty much all high schools. I know that is still the case in some places, but certainly not all. I think mandatory changing for PE, and having PE at all, is being phased out in many places.

Again, my point was only to provide another point of view. Not to correct you or pick a fight. I'm sure what you say is true for where you are, I have no doubt that the choice you make is the right one for your daughter.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I think it would be fine to talk to her about shaving and let her know in a nonjudgmental way that some women save their pubic hair. I wouldn't push it though until she shows she is more comfortable with puberty. Once she starts taking steps to use deodorant daily or decrease her new body odor on her own for a while I would retouch on this subject a little differently if you think you need to. Until then puberty can be very confusing and feel abnormal so coming on too strong for a stance that it is abnormal could do more harm than the small chance of another child caring about her pubic hair.


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca*
> 
> You know what? When my mom was in high school, it was considered disgusting for a girl to have natural eyebrows. You were supposed to pluck them out and draw on your ideal eyebrows with a pencil. Of course my mom did not want to be teased, so she was very fastidious about her brows. When fashions changed, she couldn't get them to grow back, and has been using eyebrow pencil ever since. When I was a teenager, she was very conflicted about whether to urge me to follow the current eyebrow fashion or to caution me about the risk of plucking being permanent, and wound up doing a lot of both. It was confusing and made me nervous that everyone was talking about my eyebrows behind my back!! And the fact is that for my generation (I'm 10 years older than you) eyebrows were not really a focus; if they weren't super-bushy or invisible, nobody mentioned them much; it was hard for me even to determine what WAS the fashion in eyebrows looking at the teen magazines because they rarely talked about eyebrows and the girls in the photos seemed to have, like, normal eyebrows--nothing like the 1961 extreme!
> 
> ...


Ok, first of all, this is off topic but my grandma has to pencil on her brows as well because after years of plucking they stopped growing, and when I was growing up my mom took me to get a haircut, it was passed my butt and they cut it to my ears!!! Absolutely horrible! It looked like the lady put a bowl over my head and cut around it. I got teased for that too.

But on to some points that I saw throughout your post........I *NEVER ONCE* said that I would tell my DD that she HAD to shave her vag, *nor* did I say that it is better to shave your lady bits. I understand this may not for everybody, but being a believer on personal grooming is my prerogative, it works for me. But then again I cannot form opinions for others, as I will not for my DD. I will share my experiences with her and If she wants to do it cool, if not that is ok too. And if she does want to I will show her how to safely. I will never be ashamed of my DD natural body! And although I had rough experiences growing up I am not ashamed of mine either! I love everything about my body-well my muffin top and my relationship is questionable, my husband loves it! Once again I will never force my child to do anything but love herself for who she is, but I will be there to answer any questions she may have, because she needs to hear this stuff from me and not people at school..


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

LTurtle,

Thanks, I guess I am on the defensive a bit because it seems that people are thinking that as soon as she starts shaving her pits/legs I am going to address this topic. This is certainly not the case. Thanks for your POV. I was trying to find out if anybody had ever had this talk with their DD's, and if so how did they approach it. My DD only started puberty last summer, and I know it is confusing to her. But when she is older, I will find a way to approach the topic to her and heck help her figure out if it is right for her or not if she wants me to. I will never force her, nor shame her for her body..ultimately the decision will be up to her and she already says she hates the hair down there bc it pulls, so there may be the case that she comes to me and says she already did it. If this happens thats ok too. I am just trying to be a better mom to her than I had at an example, It wasn't until 3 yrs ago that I now have a good relationship with my mother, although we don't see eye to eye on everything she tells me everyday now that I am a good mother. My only goal is for my daughter to know that I taught her all I know and didn't leave anything out, or shield her from anything that she could ever run into. I do not "sugar coat" anything with her, she gets told how it is, with what she knows already. It will continue being told like this to her as new phases in her life come along, but I will never rush anything or shove my beliefs on her.


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## onlychldisagirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moominmamma*
> 
> But required to shower, and/or change out of their undergarments, such that their breasts and genitals are exposed? I assume not, else when you went to school you would have known that shaving had become the norm amongst your peer group. Which you obviously didn't.
> 
> Miranda


I did misunderstand...LOL...I wish this would have been the norm because I could have possibly had a better time in HS, and been saved all of the embarrassing rumors and remarks that followed me for quite a while.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Okay, I am glad you wouldn't push your opinion on your daughter. I guess I misinterpreted your attitude in your first post.

Things can change a lot in a high school in just a few years, let alone two decades. Try not to worry about this as a peer issue.

I hope you are now feeling that it would be okay to talk to your daughter about this and even show her how to shave if she wants you to--that it wouldn't be some kind of weird thing to do. I can see how you would feel uncertain about that because your mom was so uninformative with you.


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## stormborn (Dec 8, 2001)

My older dd asked to shave her legs/pits pretty young-almost 10-so shaving the pubic area never came up then as she didn't have any to speak of. She's super private about stuff like that; when I asked if she needed help the first time I barely got out "be careful around that ankle bone...." as she ran away. I can't see her wanting me to demonstrate pubic hair removal! I suppose I could vote "figure it out herself" because now at almost 13 she obviously does (I'm the one who has to clean out the @#$! shower drain







. )

Honestly, it didn't occur to me that I should until this thread. I don't shave there ('70's child here) and she always changes in a stall at the gym, doesn't go to school, and wears boyshort bathing suits, so it wasn't really on my radar.


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## crazyms (Jan 8, 2010)

I'm not far off in age from the OP (28) and I have to say I think it is fairly normal for this age range. Not everyone does especially as we get older but most of the women I know near my age do shave and have since HS age. I do sometimes and sometimes don't so it really just depends on mood. As for my daughters my oldest is 8.5 and we aren't to this big girl stuff yet. I did buy her sports bra type bras about a year ago at her request because she needed to "cover up" and I'm perfectly okay with that. She has zero need for it yet but has been wearing bras for a year or so now so that one is done. I also bought both my oldest two deodorant when they were starting school and they wear it as they want to. They know how to use it, what it's for and have free access to it so that's all I can do. That one came up a little early here since my cousin's kids (she baby sits and we're really close) are a little older and started needing it so mine wanted it too and I saw no harm in it. I figure I'll address shaving with her around the start of junior high and just leave it to her then. She knows I shave my legs and underarms and has seen me undressed to see my girl stuff shaved or not shaved. She has mentioned it before and I told her that I did it for comfort and sometimes I was okay with it there and sometimes I'm more comfortable without it... when I say that she'll get that stuff eventually too she freaks and convo is over! So she knows and she'll make her own decision at some point. I've actually been debating the right age for the AF talk her lately since she's really too young but I'm worried that other girls seem to be starting earlier. Idk I'm still putting it off for now. I was 12.5 so I'm hoping I have a while yet before she does. When it comes to the kids growing up and having talks about this stuff I really just try to explain things to them the best I can and tell them the options available, what I do/have done and why and then leave it to them. I answer questions when asked and that's it. I hope that they'll be informed enough from this to make valid choices for themselves. For my son I'll just leave that to dh or my brother. Honestly right now they're more concerned with asking how old they have to be to get a cell phone


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3LilChunklins*
> 
> This might be kinda OT, but I figured I would ask...
> Ladies who shave, how do you handle the razor burn!?!?


you mean in the pubes?

simple. no reverse shave. dont go against teh grain of the hair follicles.

i think this is where a respectful relationship has its effects. this is when the results of your hard work shows.

somethings are meant to be talked about, somethings are not. your family defines what is to be spoken and what is not.

shaving on any part of the body is SO LOW on my priority list. if dd wants to shave - why not?! if dd wants 3 piercings in her ears. why not? seriously i dont care. coz i have bigger fish to fry. and i am stumbling coz parenting a 'tween/teen' is not intuitive for me. i actually have to work for it and do the opposite of the very thing i want to do. knowing when to keep my mouth shut is the hardest lesson to learn. i am trying my best not to turn into a bully. compared to all that - shaving pubes is so unimportant in my books.

in our house this wasnt even a conversation. mom i want to shave. ok here's some safety razors. u might cut yourself a few times but be careful around. and that was it. end of story. where she shaved was her choice.


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

Quote:


> mom i want to shave. ok here's some safety razors. u might cut yourself a few times but be careful around. and that was it. end of story.


Gosh...are my partner, my brother, and I the only kids in history who needed a shaving lesson and were afraid to try shaving without instruction? I had thought it was typical for the same-sex parent to give a lesson, but it sounds like a lot of people get by without it. When I was 12 I really wanted to shave my legs, but I felt completely clueless about how a safety razor works, seeing from the bandages on other girls that it obviously was not totally safe! I guess I could have asked a friend to show me, but when I asked my mom if I could be allowed to start shaving (like other steps toward maturity, I had gotten the idea it had to be "allowed") she offered to explain how to do it.

I certainly would offer to teach my daughter, but I wouldn't insist if she wanted to figure it out on her own. I'm just surprised that it seems to be so common to get started without instructions.


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## SweetSilver (Apr 12, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca*
> 
> I had thought it was typical for the same-sex parent to give a lesson, but it sounds like a lot of people get by without it.


If my life had depended on the information my mother gave me regarding growing up-- shaving or tampons or sweat or anything else-- I'd have dropped dead in a heartbeat. So, yeah, "getting by" for sure!







Though I don't recommend it.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca*
> 
> I certainly would offer to teach my daughter, but I wouldn't insist if she wanted to figure it out on her own. I'm just surprised that it seems to be so common to get started without instructions.


two things. personality and technology of razors.

mostly dd is VERY independent. she needs a little guideline and doesnt like to be given step by step instruction. she'd rather try it on her own. and then come ask me questions. which is GREAT for homeschooling a middle schooler. she does mostly independent study and i have to help her VERY little.

the other thing is EnviroBecca - the razor technology itself. NOTHING like the razors i used as a child. i have never seen my kind of razor in the market. believe it or not dd cut herself ONLY one time - that too because her hand slipped.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Chiming in w/o reading...

My opinion is that shaving arm-pits, legs and the bikini line is somewhat cultural more than it is a generational thing. Where I grew up in the states that type of personal grooming has been the norm more or less for at least 3 generations. In my experience the culture around shaving "lady bits" (which I take to mean the pubic area under the undergarments), is fairly new. I see these two things as slightly different. One is about talking to a child about cultural norms for grooming and the other would fall somewhere in the category of a discussion of norms revolving around sexuality.

I think that if a child has underarm hair in a culture where a majority of people shave that area, that, yea, talking about that with your child is a good way to go. I don't think a parent should put pressure on a child to conform though

As far as shaving under the undergarments (where only close family, friends and sexual partners will see), I think this is an unnecessary conversation to have with an 11 year old. My guess is that when my child feels ready to be sexually active that she will feel ready to make her own choices about where to have hair.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onlychldisagirl*
> 
> YOU UNDERSTAND PERFECTLY!!!!! When I originally started this thread I didn't know it would be such a big deal. Some people will never understand, and some might. That's ok. I had just wanted to know had anyone ever spoken to their children about this..


Ok, I read a bit more and understand that we are talking about the pubic area. I would suggest that, yea, if it is a concern for you to talk to your DC about that when the time comes that this is a great idea. But, if she's just now growing underarm hair, I'd say you're probably a ways off. Perhaps it's the norm to the extent that it is no longer a choice a woman/man makes around sexual relationships, which is what I had understood shaving there to be about.

But, also remember that your child is a different person than you. Being teased about this was hurtful for you and it's understandable that you want to protect her from that but just as times changed from when your mother was a child, they may well change for you and your child. The world of teen expectations is a tough one. I'm not so sure we can expect to always be our children's best source of information for this sort of thing, to be honest.


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## AAK (Aug 12, 2004)

I voted "keep it natural" but I was using that phrase in more ways than one. First, I don't shave my "bit" except to make sure that there isn't any hair visible when I wear a swimsuit. When dd started shaving, I first discussed how to shave without injury. I also explained that as she got older and her pubic hair became more prominent, that she would ultimately decide how to handle it. I told her what I do, and left it at that. My second part of "keep it natural" was to keep the line of communication open so that the conversations could happen naturally. We have had a further discussion of this topic. Some of her friends shave a lot of the pubic hair, some don't, and some we don't know. However, my dd doesn't really care for shaving much. She thought she would, but really couldn't care less. In our conversation we talked about how the various options are fine and how she will need to decide for herself. She has a really strong sense of self and she rolls with the punches -- she would rather have a bit of playful teasing at dance vs shave her legs daily. I think since she "owns" the choice, she feels good about it.

Amy


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## IsaFrench (Mar 22, 2008)

this resonate with me

In our conversation we talked about how the various options are fine and how she will need to decide for herself.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AAK*
> 
> In our conversation we talked about how the various options are fine and how she will need to decide for herself. She has a really strong sense of self and she rolls with the punches -- she would rather have a bit of playful teasing at dance vs shave her legs daily. I think since she "owns" the choice, she feels good about it.
> 
> Amy


Ultimately, I think this is the goal. The point about helping kids know what the norms are is such a small part of the conversation. The big stuff is helping kids be strong individuals with resilient personalities.


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