# Warning - episiotomy w/o consent!



## MamaE (May 1, 2004)

I know many here choose homebirth and/or midwife, but for a variety of reasons, I had an OB attended hospital birth. This is a warning for mamas who choose hospital births:

I came within an inch (literally) of being given an episiotomy I didn't want. The picture is still the most vivid and upsetting one of my birth experience last Friday. As my son was crowning, the OB pulled out her scissors. It was sheer luck that I had my eyes open at that moment and looked down right as she was opening the scissors about an inch from my perineum. I yelled, "No! No episiotomy!" She said, "Well, you're gonna need one!" I said again, "No! Don't cut me!" After that, she said "OK, I didn't." and put the scissors away (reluctantly).

I still can't believe this almost happened to me. I was naive enough to think she'd have to ask my consent first. Honestly, I can't believe she would even think of doing one on me - I had a 9 lb, 1 oz baby the first time with no cut and only 20 min of pushing and then, once all was said and done, this baby (9 lbs 3oz with a huge head) slipped out with one small tear and about 6 minutes of pushing.

I don't know what to think of my OB now. I feel betrayed and (nearly) violated by her. I'm trying to focus on all the other positives of my birth - I did it naturally with no pain meds and I think, overall, I was a champ. But having been nearly cut really frightens me. This is just a warning to other hospital birthers who might naively think their consent will be asked for interventions. The other thing that was out of my control was my position. When I arrived, they told me I could squat, but once it was time to push, they wouldn't let me. I was on my back and I had to beg to be allowed to sit up a little even.









FTR, I wanted a homebirth and my DH didn't. If I do this again, I know at least that I will not choose an OB!!

If you are planning a hospital birth with an OB, be very, very clear before labor begins what you will agree to and what you will not. Even then, know that the OB and the nursing staff end up in control. Sad, but true!


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## QueenOfThePride (May 26, 2005)

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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Happens ALL THE TIME. A big reason I would never birth in a hospital short of an emergency. Luckily dh is on my side, but if he wasn't it would be tough luck for him.

-Angela


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

You are one lucky momma! Good for you for speaking up and sticking to it.









Of all the interventions I fear in the hospital I think the episotomy is the biggest. (Mostly because it is IMO it is a pointless, barbaric, and dangerous thing to do.) It is something that always happens at the last minute, without consent and often you are unaware of it (it's not like you are focused on what the doctor is doing when you are crowning.)

Most other interventions take some time and you have a chance to say NO!

I'd take the tiny tear (trough skin) over a big incision (trough skin and muscle) any day. Oh! the pain of recovery.

The idea of someone cutting my yoni just freaks me out!


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## Wugmama (Feb 10, 2005)

I'm so sorry that happened! Thank goodness you were able to stop it. yeah, I'd have serious trust issues with that doctor after that. Hopefully she didn't get out her scissors and go after your baby (if it was a son)!

I had a hb that turned into a transfer after 3.5 days at home with a broken water. They were great at the hospital and my mw was right at my side and very involved in the birth, including communicating with the doctor who was on call when we arrived. When we were alone in the room though before the baby was born I grabbed her arm and said, "Don't let them cut me" and she said very seriously she would never let that happen. I had this mental image of her throwing herself on top of me to protect me. Luckily it never came to that - they had a pretty enlightened hospital staff.









~Tracy


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## merrick (Dec 8, 2003)

This happened to me as well. Unfortunately I didn't even know it happened until he started stitching me up and I asked my sister why. Ridiculous. I know it was not necessary at all. I only had to push three times and she was out. DD was a small baby and I'm sure I wouldn't have torn, at least not much anyway. I was pretty pissed. To make matters worse the sOB had one of the nurses hold his cell phone up to his ear so he could talk while he was stitching me up! I couldn't believe it! My regular doc was out of town so I got stuck with this UA violation who I had never met before. I'm not planning any more children, but if I ever do it will NOT be in a hospital with an OB.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

I refused one, informed the OB at each prenatal and was cut anyway.

It happens all the time







Many OBs feel the need to do "something."


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## Marlet (Sep 9, 2004)

Same here. Luckily DH stopped the dr. and asked me. I still ended up with one but at least we were involved in the decision.


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaE* 
I don't know what to think of my OB now. I feel betrayed and (nearly) violated by her.

I hope you'll tell her that?

Quote:

The other thing that was out of my control was my position. When I arrived, they told me I could squat, but once it was time to push, they wouldn't let me. I was on my back and I had to beg to be allowed to sit up a little even.
I don't understand, were they holding you down? Threatening you?


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## HeatherB (Jan 30, 2003)

I'm so glad you were able to stop the OB.







This was my absolute biggest fear with my first, and while I ended up with a c/s, in some ways I was glad to have avoided "the other" cut. I told everyone that if they saw a doc pick up scissors to NOT let them do it! And it was on my birth plan, too, but I just couldn't trust them.

Fast forward 2.5 years to a homebirth, and I trusted my incredible midwives enough that I had NO trouble doing anything they suggested. And I was blessed that they really did know what I needed and helped me through an arduous but successful VBAC!

I hope you can heal from the trauma of that moment quickly and have a more peaceful birth next time!


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## jennica (Aug 10, 2005)

It isn't just OB's that do this. My CNM gave me an episiotomy while I was SCREAMING "NO, I DON"T WANT IT".

I encourage you to write a letter to the doctor and to the hospital expressing your unhappiness with the experience. Talk about what you were told or promised would happen (as in the position you wanted to birth in), and what you assumed would happen (you wouldn't be physically violated by a scissors wielding OB), and then explain what did happen and how it made you feel.

But, I encourage you to wait a couple weeks so that you can continue to process your birth experience. You may think of more things that you want to mention over the next couple weeks.

If you decide to go back to your OB for you six week check up, you could also talk to her about it in person. You don't have to go back to her though, you can transfer your care to a family practice doc or CNM. Check out the Finding Your Tribe area here for refferals in your area.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

That's why I'm writing NO EPISIOTOMY into my birth plan and filing a copy with my OB and my doula in advance, plus my doula will be there to look out for me. That's the main reason I'm having a doula, actually - because I will be having a hospital birth, and I want someone looking out for ME.


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## jennica (Aug 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gcgirl* 
That's why I'm writing NO EPISIOTOMY into my birth plan and filing a copy with my OB and my doula in advance, plus my doula will be there to look out for me. That's the main reason I'm having a doula, actually - because I will be having a hospital birth, and I want someone looking out for ME.

A doula can't DO anything to stop an episiotomy. I had one too, and she couldn't stop it anymore than I could. I think the only thing that can stop it is if your partner physically stops the care provider from doing it, and not all partners are prepared to do that.

I hope your wishes are respected. Good luck.


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## Genesis (Jan 8, 2007)

I'm sorry that almost happend to you. I'm so glad your eyes were open and you were firm with the OB about not wanting it. Good for you! Myself, I would have been quite p*ssed. Personally, I would never, ever birth at a hospital unless it was a true emergency.....but I am glad you and your baby are both okay, and no, I wouldn't ever trust that OB again.

Congratulations on your new baby!


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## Genesis (Jan 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Luckily dh is on my side, but if he wasn't it would be tough luck for him.

Same here. I love DH so much, but I was the one giving birth, not him.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennica* 
A doula can't DO anything to stop an episiotomy. I had one too, and she couldn't stop it anymore than I could. I think the only thing that can stop it is if your partner physically stops the care provider from doing it, and not all partners are prepared to do that.

I hope your wishes are respected. Good luck.









:

Which was a main reason we never considered hospital birth because of the risk of dh being removed by security for protecting me....

-Angela


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## Severine (Nov 5, 2005)

I had an episiotomy without consent, too. I had a birth plan on file saying no episiotomy, but I had only discussed the plan with one of the 4 OBs in the group. I was *notified* that he would be doing the episiotomy as he did it... no chance to refuse.







That's the worst thing about my birth experience with DD... even worse than the induction they convinced me to do and the sprial of interventions that happened because of that (internal monitoring, breaking my water, requiring the epidural after 26 hours of labor when the Pitocin really kicked in, and then he went on to cutting the cord immediately, eye goo immediately....).


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## noah's mom (Jan 3, 2006)

Same thing happened to me - except it was with a CNM in a MW unit of the hospital I gave birth at. She was great otherwise and I had no major interventions other than that, but I too had written "no episiotomy" on my birth plan. I was in the midst of pushing DS's head out and didn't even realize what she was doing until after, didn't feel it or anything (was a little focused on finally pushing out my baby, after THREE HOURS of pushing!)

She said afterwards he was in distress at that moment - cord looped around his neck, heartreat dropped dramatically - and she had to get him out "quickly". I don't know... I believed her at the time but now I wonder - he was never in distress the entire 3 hours I pushed, up until that very moment? And she had been doing perineal massage during my labor, I spent an hour and a half in a waterbirth tub, you would think I'd be stretched out enough.

Anyway, can't change the past but that is absolutely one of the reasons I am going with a homebirth for this one!


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## kim_nz (Jun 11, 2004)

I had written in my birth plan no episiotomy and well OB and midwife still decided to cut me without asking. At the time didnt really think much of it but now i do, especially since when i had my third at home it ripped apart exactly where the scar was.


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## AlbertaJes (May 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *georgia* 
I refused one, informed the OB at each prenatal and was cut anyway.









:


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## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

Well, you may not know how you feel about your OB, but I know how *I* feel about her.


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## mamabadger (Apr 21, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennica* 
A doula can't DO anything to stop an episiotomy.

Sadly, that's true. Some of my clients have been cut against their will. In one instance, the OB prepared to make the incision, and I told him my client didn't want an episiotomy under any circumstances. He just said, "Well, she's getting one anyway" and after the birth he called me out into the hall and told me off for speaking to him about it.


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## mothragirl (Sep 10, 2005)

before i gave birth last time i showed my boyfriend photos of episiotomies online and told him not to let that happen to me. i gave birth outside of a hospital and avoiding being cut was a big reason.


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## skyblufig (Aug 13, 2006)

OP, that is sooooo scary! I think if I saw scissors anywhere _near_ between my legs I'd be kicking the scissor holder in the face, hard. Yes, unfortunately, what some hcp's _say_ and what they _do_ are vastly different things and I almost think they count on you being so blissed out with your babe that you'll forget. But we don't, do we?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamabadger* 
Sadly, that's true. Some of my clients have been cut against their will. In one instance, the OB prepared to make the incision, and I told him my client didn't want an episiotomy under any circumstances. He just said, "Well, she's getting one anyway" and after the birth he called me out into the hall and told me off for speaking to him about it.

I hope you filed every complaint you could think of to the hospital, his practice, etc. If you were hired to be an advocate for the patient, you were doing your job and he had no right to try and dress you down.







Pi$$es me off and it didn't even happen to me! The power trips some of these people are on blows my mind...


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## turtlewomyn (Jun 5, 2005)

When you have time, either write a letter or file a complaint against them (hmmmm.... not sure if that would be enough for a DOH, maybe if she had actually cut you.....) At least write a letter to that doctor, copy the hospital and the Dept. of Health stating that you were upset that she even tried (I assume you had a birth plan). I mean really, if someone tried to come up to you on the street with a scissors and tried to cut you that would be attempted assault, what makes it ok when they have that MD after their name?

If you DH still is anti-homebirth after this at least get him to go talk to a homebirth midwife next time before you make your decision, maybe he will come around.


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

This is horrifying that there are SO MANY of us w/ that story.

THAT is why I have home births now.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skyblufig* 

I hope you filed every complaint you could think of to the hospital, his practice, etc. If you were hired to be an advocate for the patient, you were doing your job and he had no right to try and dress you down.







Pi$$es me off and it didn't even happen to me! The power trips some of these people are on blows my mind...

In many areas doulas walk a careful line. There are whole hospitals that do not allow them at all.

-Angela


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## JillChristina (May 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MamaE* 
I still can't believe this almost happened to me. I was naive enough to think she'd have to ask my consent first.

With my first baby (in a hospital, with an OB - not the one I'd been seeing) I got an episiotomy w/out prior warning.







:







: She didn't even warn my husband or best friend who were RIGHT there watching. Poor dh almost passed out.







: That is really the only part of dd#1's birth that REALLY bothered me. Having someone CUT MY BODY without even asking!! Needless to say even though I chose to give birth in a hospital the second time around, I had a midwife and EXPLICIT instructions for no episiotomy. Baby #2 was 1lbs bigger than the first and I only had a tiny tear that needed no repair. Go figure.

I'm glad you caught your OB in time.


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## laprettygurl (Dec 22, 2004)

When I had my DD I had to SCREAM at the doc to NOT CUT ME! Can you believe the UA went and sulked?







:


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## ericswifey27 (Feb 12, 2005)

turtlewomyn said:


> I mean really, *if someone tried to come up to you on the street with a scissors and tried to cut you that would be attempted assault, what makes it ok when they have that MD after their name?*
> 
> 
> > ITA!
> ...


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Geez!







My crotch + sharp things = no dice!







:


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## pinksprklybarefoot (Jan 18, 2007)

Wow... I must have gotten lucky. I just cannot believe the power that medical professionals have to hurt you without consequence.

I made a big ol' stink over the episiotomy thing at my prenatal visits, and my CNM respected my wishes. Right after the birth she said that I was lucky that I had a midwife because I would have definitely gotten one if an OB had been attending.

I had a second degree tear but it healed completely within ten days of the birth and caused hardly any pain. I doubt an episiotomy would have been as easy to deal with as the tear.







:

I wrote her a thank you note with the birth announcement I sent out yesterday... thanking her for attending the birth AND saving my perineum.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jennica* 
A doula can't DO anything to stop an episiotomy. I had one too, and she couldn't stop it anymore than I could. I think the only thing that can stop it is if your partner physically stops the care provider from doing it, and not all partners are prepared to do that.

I hope your wishes are respected. Good luck.

Oh, I know she can't, but what she CAN do is be on alert and able to notice things that are going on that I might not be aware of myself while I'm distracted with pain and visualizations and such. She can keep an eye on things.

Besides, my OB is not very pushy about episiotomies. At least NOT YET! I specifically switched OBs to get this one, and I trust him. Excellent bedside manner, very informative. Met with me for an hour before I even became a patient, just to talk about my needs/wants. Good man.


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## Lady Lilya (Jan 27, 2007)

When my mother gave birth in 1980 and 1984, she told the OB in advance she didn't want one. They told her it was required. She said she would find another OB. They told her good luck, because she wouldn't find one that didn't require one. They were right. She had to submit to it.


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## huggerwocky (Jun 21, 2004)

She should know how you feel. Tell her. Don't spare her with details about your nightmares. An epi without consent is assault.


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## lyttlewon (Mar 7, 2006)

Yep I was this [_] close to an episiotomy and thank god my nurse leaned over and reminded my doctor that I didn't want one. That woman did so much for me she was such an awesome nurse.


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## LilWin (Apr 25, 2007)

That is horrible.







I would definitely complain or talk to that OB about what happened. Can you believe I almost got an epi during DS's homebirth (midwife can do one during a homebirth here in Europe)? I was pushing on my back but it didn't feel right. I felt like I had more strength but couldn't quite get to it because of my position, YKWIM? So DS didn't come further down. Between two contractions I heard the midwife discuss with her trainee (don't know what else to call her, but she was doing the birth together with the MW as part of her education) about getting ready for an episiotomy. That word came through veeeery clear in my fogged mind at that moment. I had one at DD's birth (hospital, she was breech and they told me I had to have one to get her out quickly *sigh*) and hated it so deeply, that I swore never to have one again. So the moment I heard that word, I thought to myself: no way, this baby's coming out as I want it, and right now! So I ignored what they said and turned to my side and out he came in one push. No tear, nothing!! All this talk about an epi because they had no patience to wait it out and because I wasn't able to express more clearly that I wanted to push on my side. Very valuable lesson. BTW, I did mention this to them when they came to check up on me a few days later. The midwife told me they considered doing an epi based on the hearttones of the baby and how the pushing was going. Let's just say they both still had a lot to learn.







:


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## AmyJayne19 (Nov 11, 2006)

I just told my HCP that under no circumstance was I to have an episiotomy. Lucky for me he doesn't believe in them. Even luckier for my ds2 is that he doesn't believe in circ's either so no constant harrassment on that front.


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## Codi's Mama (Jun 15, 2006)

I had an epi without consent also.







I didn't even realize what she was doing until I felt the cutting. I never should have signed the general consent form at the hospital. It lead to a lot of procedures done without asking me first.
After I received the bill for the "surgery" I realized why sOB's do them. $3000 for a quick cut and 20 minutes of stitching.


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## momuveight2B (Mar 17, 2006)

This happened to me with my first birth, 5# 13 ounce baby and HUGE episiotomy. I saw, heard and felt him cutting. Horrid! I've had tears since but never been cut again.

In those days they strapped your legs into stirups and there was no possibility of fighting back.


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## Juvysen (Apr 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Codi's Mama* 
I had an epi without consent also.







I didn't even realize what she was doing until I felt the cutting. I never should have signed the general consent form at the hospital. It lead to a lot of procedures done without asking me first.
After I received the bill for the "surgery" I realized why sOB's do them. $3000 for a quick cut and 20 minutes of stitching.


OMG! I had one but had no bill like that! (mine was consented







because the baby's head was stuck half way out for 30 minutes and her hr was dropping. The midwife gave me an opportunity to try harder, which I did and it didn't do anything)


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

What makes you think that any woman in her right mind would consent to a ritual genital mutilation as a routine episiotomy? Doctors do it because they think they know better than G-d or think they are G-d.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *turtlewomyn* 
I mean really, if someone tried to come up to you on the street with a scissors and tried to cut you that would be attempted assault, what makes it ok when they have that MD after their name?

A doctor is different.

He is acting within the standard of care, and if you think you do not know what that is, try suing him. The entire Medical Society in your state will line up to testify that he was acting within the standard of care, that is, if the district attorney did not laugh you out of his office in the first place.


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## starry_mama (May 26, 2006)

I was given an episiotomy without my consent. Actually I was screaming "Noooooooo!" and so was my DH. My DH was actually crying while he was saying no.


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## herbanmama (Jun 10, 2005)

:







:






























Okay, I think that about covers it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gcgirl* 
Oh, I know she can't, but what she CAN do is be on alert and able to notice things that are going on that I might not be aware of myself while I'm distracted with pain and visualizations and such. She can keep an eye on things.

At my recent doula training with P. Simkin, she told us a story where she had a client who had explicitly stated to her OB that she did not want to be cut. Penny saw the doctor reaching for the scissors and quietly told the client, "He's picking up the scissors", and the OB quickly put them down and said "No I'm not". This woman avoided the episiotomy.

Reading this thread has put me on a soapbox for the rest of the night. DH and I are going on a date - I am sure he's going to be thrilled with my ranting dinner conversation...


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## MamaE (May 1, 2004)

Wow! How utterly horrifying that so many of us have had this experience. I am so sad for those of you that weren't able to avoid it. I can't get over how lucky it was that I had my eyes open and just happened to focus on the OB at that moment. For much of the pushing phase, my eyes were either closed or I was looking into DH's eyes.

What's sticking with me now is the thought of the excruciating pain I would have felt had she cut me. I had no pain meds whatsoever and she hadn't done a local on me before picking up the scissors.

Honestly, I can't believe it's legal for them to cut you without consent. It shouldn't be. It's been very interesting to read everyone's comments. Even though this was my 2nd hospital birth, I had no idea this sort of thing could happen. What an eye opener. And not in a good way!


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

We were VERY clear with the doc and the nursing staff for my last birth and they flat out LIED through their teeth. We feel they stole the baby from us and left him laying under a warmer in the nursery while my husband was allowed only to hold his hand. The baby screamed and screamed and there was NO medical reason for him to be taken from us. We told them we wanted him to stay and they bold faced told us that was okay on several ocassions. When they took him, they said they were going to weigh him and bring him back. Again, a lie.

Also, I told the doc NO episiotomy and he was SUCH a jerk. You could tell he was so mad. I believe he maliciously stretched me so hard and fast that he gave me tears all over and I was in excruciating pain for weeks.

Even a CNM I trusted gave me an episiotomy without asking during my delivery of my second. I only pushed SEVEN times. I think I could have given birth without one just fine.

I am having a homebirth this time. For obvius reasons!


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## fuller2 (Nov 7, 2004)

WOW. I really wonder now if I had one and just didn't know it. I transferred to the hospital from a birth center (had a ridiculous experience with birth center, long story) and ended up on my back with epidural, baby crowning over and over again but not popping out, and OB finally using forceps b/c, she said, he was stuck under my pubic bone. Is episiotomy required with forceps? She just 'shoehorned' him out, but I was torn almost to the anus. My memory is '60 stitches.' I couldn't sit down for almost a month. No one mentioned episiotomy, but?

Wow, I never even thought about this before.

I cannot believe this happens. For god's sake, wasn't there this major research study done several YEARS ago that showed episiotomies only make tears worse and don't help births?? AAARRGGH! It was in the New York Times Science Times section.


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## GinaRae (Mar 27, 2007)

Episiotomy case settled in court: http://tinyurl.com/2l5k5n

Not quite the same as this, but interesting..


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## MyBoysBlue (Apr 27, 2007)

Boy am I ever glad to have a laid back Doc with DS1. He was stretching me as I was crowning and he says" your getting a little tight I am just going to make a little cut." I yelled "NO, I'd rather tear." He put down the scissors and I barely tore at all. I didn't even need a single stitch. If he had cut I would have needed at least a few. I am glad for myself that he wasn't egotistical enough to go against my wishes. He made no fuss about it and when he was checking me for tears after the birth he just says " Hun. No need for stitches." I think he was glad I made his job easier.


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## ericswifey27 (Feb 12, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GinaRae* 
Episiotomy case settled in court: http://tinyurl.com/2l5k5n

Not quite the same as this, but interesting..

Good for her! Too bad the case got settled though. We need more of those cases in court.


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## minkajane (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyBoysBlue* 
Boy am I ever glad to have a laid back Doc with DS1. He was stretching me as I was crowning and he says" your getting a little tight I am just going to make a little cut." I yelled "NO, I'd rather tear." He put down the scissors and I barely tore at all. I didn't even need a single stitch. If he had cut I would have needed at least a few. I am glad for myself that he wasn't egotistical enough to go against my wishes. He made no fuss about it and when he was checking me for tears after the birth he just says " Hun. No need for stitches." I think he was glad I made his job easier.

It's good that you didn't get the episiotomy, but it still bothers me that he thought "Oh, looks like she MIGHT tear, better cut her!" It's just not a logical train of the thought!


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## miguelsmom (Jul 8, 2005)

This brings back HORRIBLE memories of my ds birth. It makes me sick to my stomach when I remember the OB telling me she had to cut me and screaming "NOOO" at the top of my lungs and her doing it anyway. I still feel so violated and I never confronted either. Just switched to Midwives.








to all mamas who have to deal with this


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