# I need some serious help here... Please don't flame me... I've had some dark moments.



## Faithsmom (Oct 3, 2004)

Please do not flame me for this post. I've had some very dark moments lately. I'm coming here for HELP AND SUPPORT. If you do not have that, please refrain from posting.

Background:

My daughter is 29 months old. She is not yet potty trained. We are planning on beginning that this summer. I didn't want to add another life change onto the life changing birth of her brother which occurred 3 months ago.
I have to say right off that she loves her brother. She LOVES him loves him loves him. She is very sweet with him, always helpful. She's not always happy with ME that I need to take care of him though.
I am currently tandem nursing. She nurses mostly in the night (which she had night weaned before the babywas born, but now nurses like 3-4 times in the night), to go to bed and to take a nap.
My husband works 5 days a week. Mostly long days. He's gone when we wake up and then he gets home around 6pm. We eat dinner as a family and then DD falls asleep around 8/9pm. Basically, what I am saying is I am responsible for most of the parenting. Two of the 5 days a week he leaves the house for work at 10am and does not return until after 10pm. On these nights, bedtime is entirely my responsibility.

I have been trying very hard not to yell or be impatient with my children. I have been very concious of my parenting lately. I have noticed that it is MY OWN impatience and expectations that lead me to anger and yelling. An example of this:
I took both the kids grocery shopping with me. Usually I get irritated and grumpy because DD won't get into her car seat for me, or whatever. I kept telling myself "what else do you have to do today?" the answer was nothing, so I was able to calm myself down. Another example:
DD asked to wear a dress to bed. I stopped, thought about it, had no good reason to say no to her so I said yes. Usually this would have ended w/ me saying "no, you can wear that tomorrow, lets put on PJs and a tantrum ensues." I was very pround of myself.

That being said, here is the current problem.

My DD screams. I mean, not just screams but works herself into such a tizzy that he kicks, hits, throws herself on the floor etc. OVER EVERYTHING. Today it was because she had pooped and my DH said she needed a diaper change. It wasn't the fact that she needed a diaper change, but she wanted ME to do it. TOTAL FLIP OUT. Kicking my husband, etc. My husband is way calmer than me. He took her into the bedroom and told her she could scream in there and left. A few minutes later, she calmed down and said "daddy I'm ready" and had her diaper change. I was nursing the baby, so I couldn't change a diaper at that moment. I don't think it had anything to do w/ ME or her jelousy over the baby getting attention. She does this thing all the time. Sometimes its because SHE wants to do something ("MY DO!!!" she says) that might be dangerous (like cutting her food) or messy (like pouring a drink from a gallon of milk). When we try to help her or tell her its too dangerous/ messy etc....FLIP OUT!!! Sometimes it's because she wants DADDY DO! OR MOMMY DO! OR AUNTIE DO!







:
Sometimes its because I'm not doing something "right" like I put the wrong pajamas on her doll or something.

Here's the dark moment:
It was around 8pm, and I had nursed both the kids. Luke fell asleep so I put him in his cradle. I could tell Faith was still full of energy. She asked to go play. My DH was working until at least 10pm, so I figured "why not? I'm only going to sit here on the bed for hours until she's tired enough to fall asleep. Lets have some girl time."
We went into the living room. We colored, read books etc.
Aroung 9pm, she asked to go to bed and to nurse.
(we live in a one bedroom apt. right now)
I was sitting on the bed with her and she was nursing. (remember that she had nursed 1 hour proir and I had nursed BOTH KIDS at that time) After about 30 minutes, I asked to her change sides because that nipple was starting to feel sore. After about 20 minutes on that side, I told her. "OK. nummies are all done now. Let mommy hold you. You can nurse later tonight when they fill up again."
She went ABSOLUTELY CRAZY!!!!! SCREAMING, KICKING. TOTALLY FLIPPING OUT.
Now, remember. We live in one bedroom. DSs cradle is next to my bed and her crib is on the opposite side of my bed. (we wake up w/ everyone in the same bed in the morning) The baby was sleeping in his cradle.
I tried EVERYTHING to have her calm down.
1. I got on her level, talked calmly " I know you want to nurse right now, but the nummies have to fill back up" still flipping out....
2. Here let me hold you .... Hit and kicked me.
3. Faith.. look at mommy. stop screaming.. I don't understand what your saying to me when you are screaming it....
then I started to lose it.
I was pissed she was going to wake up the baby.
"shhh shhhshhhshhhshhshhhshhhhhh"
still flipping out.
I couldn't walk out and leave her to scream w/ the baby right there.
maybe I should have taken her into the living room??
ANyway... so after a good 30 minutes of this insanity. I slapped her.








accross her face. She was in such a frenzy that she didn't even notice. She didn't even stop to think about it. Nothing. No reaction other than the same screaming.
shhhh shhhhshhhh. Nothing.

And then I just cried. I sat and I sobbed. I sobbed so hard I could barely breathe. Not because of the screaming, but because I couldn't stand her. I didn't like her and I never wanted to feel that way twards her. I love her. I was so sad that I could feel that for her.







:
Just then. She stopped. She started saying "no mommy" and "shhh" and rubbing my back. .... which made me feel even worse.

I have whole days of this screaming. I feel like such an awful mother. Like she hates me. I love her so much and I feel like I am failing her.

Please help me get my girl back.

Thank you for listening. I know this ended up being very long.


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## Hippiemommie (Jul 3, 2005)

I don't really have any advice for you other than get some help. Maybe you and DH should sit down and decide if he needs to scale back on work and on the life style you are living now so that you have more relief at home. Before you do anything take a couple of seconds to think about what you are going to do and why are you doing it. Did you think that slapping her was going to make her stop screaming? Or where you doing it because you were mad at her? I think answering those questions and taking a minute to gather yourself might help you. Hugs to you momma.


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## InDaPhunk (Jun 24, 2005)

I have no suggestions for you but I didn't want to read and not post.







. I hope you get things worked out







.


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## Faithsmom (Oct 3, 2004)

I slapped her because I thought it would make her stop, not because I was mad.

One other thing she does is she'll follow me sround yelling the same thing over and over again until she gets what she wants. Say... to nurse "nummies, nummies, nummies, nummies, nummies" it's enough to make a person insane!


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## Faithsmom (Oct 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hippiemommie*
I don't really have any advice for you other than get some help. Maybe you and DH should sit down and decide if he needs to scale back on work and on the life style you are living now so that you have more relief at home.

We don't live an extravagant lifestyle. We live in a one bedroom apt right now.
He can't scale back on work because he just hired two people to replace two people that left and has to train them. *sigh*

Before you do anything take a couple of seconds to think about what you are going to do and why are you doing it.

I had been doing this and felt really good about my actions beforehand.

Did you think that slapping her was going to make her stop screaming? Or where you doing it because you were mad at her? I think answering those questions and taking a minute to gather yourself might help you. Hugs to you momma.[/QUOTE]

I did think slapping her would stop her. I know it sounds stupid, but I thought the shock value would make her stop.


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## mamamore (Jun 14, 2006)

You are going through a difficult time. YOu need to recognize and then take steps to change. The first year of my dd#2's life was very hard. My DH was in the military and was away a lot for many days at a time. I used childcare for my older daughter and mom's helpers to get me through dinner time until bed time, asked my friends to come over and went over to friend's home for dinner. It all helped and it was difficult for me in some ways to be out so much but I needed to be around people. What will help you?

Bedtimes are still difficult for me. I will be nursing dd2 when dd1 wants a drink of water and I have to put her off. She has adjusted but it was a very slow process and I am still working on not raising my voice because I know it just escalates both my daughters.

I can't emphasize enough find what helps you and do it. We sacrifice other things financially so that I can get through the weeks that my dh is working.


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## Sarah Pachev (Apr 29, 2006)

I know where you are coming from and hope that I can give you some advice or support that would help. You sound like a very loving mom and I think you are doing a great job at being patient. I think resentful feelings towards your older child can be normal after you've had a baby. I have certainly had some. (I'm due with number 5 in a few weeks). I haven't felt it with all of my children but when they are being particuraly difficult it can happen.
It sounds like what your husband did with putting her in her room right away until she was ready to come out worked. Would she do that for you? I usually tell my children if they feel like crying they can go cry in their pillows and get it all out because mommy doesn't like listening to it. It has worked so far with all of them but I know every child is different.
One thing is for sure..as soon as you start telling yourself things like, "I'm not giving her enough attention...I'm not doing this right...I'm not doing that right." you will actually take away the power that you have to do things right. I know I've been through this to.
If you can , stop yourself from thinking this when you catch yourself. You are a wonderful mother and you will be a better (not perfect but better) if you empower yourself with no guilt phrases. Call a friend...lighten up and I hope that you know that you are doing a good job.
This is getting long but one other thing you might think about is to look at her diet. Is she eating mostly sugary stuff that might not give her the oomph to deal with stress? Is she eating fresh fruit or veggies, proteins and whole grain?
Don't stress about that but maybe try and go with a healthy meal at least once a day if you tend to eat a lot of processed foods.

Good luck

Sarah


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

It sounds like things are so rough right now... really, sometimes it's just about getting through as best you can, and having faith that it does get better.

The only thing I can think of that might help is giving your daughter lots of lead time for things... so instead of saying "All done with nummies for now" you might say, "We're going to have nummies until this song is over.... okay, this is the last verse... okay, remember after they sing XYZ we'll stop nummies until morning" or whatever. If she seems really unhappy with that maybe you can ask her how many songs, or seconds, or whatever... some kids like being in control of when things will end.

I think being patient is good, but you can also set expectations and routines... I'm thinking that knowing what to expect might be really helpful for your daughter. Evene if you know she knows, some kids just need to hear it said...

dar


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## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

I really don't have much to offer but I couldn't read without posting.

Shay


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## Feb2003 (Jul 20, 2003)

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tandem nursing is exhausting and sleep deprivation from tandem nursing both at night, too, must be even worse!

I know you feel horrible...you are here to change...I think it's great that you are reaching out for help...I hope that you are able to find a way to make it through this (and all future) hard times without the feelings and reactions you had that night

If you think sleep would be better for you and your dd could handle it right now, are you up for night weaning her again? It might help

also, I think that you should talk with dd in calm times about how to handle frustration...maybe tell her that you need to work on it, too, and you could brainstorm on more constructive actions/words for both of you...also maybe a "code word" that will help you remind eachother in the heat of the moment...make sense?

**I would encourage her to use words and suggest some if she can't think of any
**I would model deep breathing (demonstrate when calm, model when you need it *and* when she needs it)
**For the actual tantrums...I'm just bainstorming...try to find something that jives with you...I might react similarly to your husband for the screaming...stay calm (she's out of control already), stay loving, let her know you love her, offer a hug, and then explain that you realize she is having very strong emotions, does she want you to stay with her...I think a non-response/more screaming/baby in need would result in my saying that I want dc to express themselves and "get it all out," but it is too loud for me/I have x to do/etc. please let me know when I can help...and then move away enough that you can concentrate on something else...I don't want you to abandon her, but maybe if she understands that you expect her to work *with* you to calm down she will try ????????

I hope some of this helps!! My oldest loses it sometimes and so do I...I try to be honest with him when I make mistakes and yell at the top of my lungs







it has opened up conversations about what *he* thinks I should do when I''m super frustrated...his suggestions are priceless!









it probably didn't occur to you at the time to remove her...I know space restictions are hard...we're not that cramped, but ds1 *knows* that being super loud is something that gets him attention fast during ds2's nap...drives me crazy since if he wakes the baby he won't get what he needs, but he doesn't understand that...

I hope something in this rambling helps!!


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## jessemoon (May 31, 2004)

You are not a bad mom! You are an exhausted mom. I only have one and I get to the point where I want to toss my 2 1/2 year old out the window. He (almost always) has an angry reaction to disappointment as well. I understand how frustrating it can be. It is much harder to be patient with a screaming, kicking, angry toddler than a sad, miserable pathetic one.

I don't really have any pertinent advice as the mother of only one, but I am sending you all my best wishes and calm thoughts.


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## familylove (Mar 14, 2006)

I'm so sorry things are rough right now, mama!

I agree with Dar that providing some lead time might help your DD. My DS needs ample "warning" that we're transitioning from one activity to the other. "OK, three more slides and then we have to leave the park." "I'll sing Rockabye and then its time to eat." "Five more minutes and we need to leave the library." You may already be doing this kind of thing, but if not, I know it made a world of difference for us.

I also taught DS how to deep breathe. Whenever he starts winding up into yelling fit, I ask him to to deep breathe with me. I also use baths and/or showers to help DS chill out.

I know tv/videos aren't great, but faced with total meltdown, is there something your DD likes to watch that would calm her? Or a book she really likes?

You sound like a loving, conscientious mom. You're facing a difficult situation with little to no help. Is there anyone you can ask to help out a couple of times a week?

I feel like I'm not giving very good suggestions, but I couldn't read your post without replying. Take care, mama...please post again to say how you're doing.


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

Oh man, inexperienced hugs go out to you....

My one possibly helpful thought is that if this happens again in the bedroom, can you take her out into the living room (or bathroom or kitchen etc) so she's not doing it right there next to the baby?

The rest of my thoughts are just from being the oldest of 5 (the others are 2, 13, 15, and 25 years younger than me). It's HARD to be the oldest! Parents grow and change and get so much better, and we're the experiments.







Not that she necessarily realizes that, being so young. But then again, being that young, she might not really remember that she had even MORE attention than her new sibling, b/c there was only one of her. But she's little and it's hard to explain that, isn't it.









As for the same word over and over...oh yeah. As far as I know, totally normal. Only thing more annoying than being the parent of that child? Being the sibling of that child.







Can't do a thing about it! But IMO the only thing that can change (unless you want to start down a much darker road of *do as I say* which of course none of us do) is YOU and your attitude towards it. My guy just started that...hmm, today, actually. He's 25 months now. I can't remember what he was saying over and over and over again...it was something that wasn't going to happen and it had been fully explained a few times already. He'd say it. I'd smile and say "hmm, no." He'd say it. I'd giggle and say "well, no." Over and over and over (with me acting like it was a conversation rather than just one word, and slightly changing my way of answering each time) until we were both laughing...and he stopped. Woohoo! See? It's way easier to be the parent of the repeating kid. Sibling can't do anything to stop it.







It's still annoying as anything though, especially if you're already stressed!

So again, hugs.


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## mosky22 (Jan 4, 2004)

I just wanted to send some







s to you and let you know that a lot of what you are describing is normal, age appropriate and situation appropriate. Having the new baby in the house and being the age that she is, I'm sure that she is dealing with a lot of frustration.

My suggestion is let her do more things herself even if it ends up being mroe work for you. Constantly offer her alternatives. If she can't pour the milk or cut the food, what can she do instead? Maybe hold the cup, maybe choose her own fork, these little bits of independence can go along way to helping toddlers feel more in control.

As far as the screaming goes, it is tough I know. She is still really young to understand that her actions ( screaming ) will have reactions ( waking up the baby). it sounds like she was overtired, maybe a snack before you went into the bed room would have helped. You did not mention if you had talked with her prior about the fact that the njursing session would be cut short. You know like before you went into hte bedroom. "Mommy will only be able to nurse you a short while, so lets get a sippy cup with some water. You can have that and mommy will hold you. Do you want to help fill up the sippy cup?". Offering an allternative, motivated with some level of participation on her part. If she is anything like my daughhter this worked really great. Any time we would give her the opportunity to do something on her own, she would jump at the opportunity. The she was able to take ownership ofhte situationa a little better.

As far as you mama, I know it is hard to find time for you self to recharge. But it sounds like you could use it. A hot bath always makes me feel better. Don't forget to take time for yourself, even if it is just 20 minutes.


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## Justine (Jun 10, 2005)

Faithsmom,

Just wanted to send hugs and support.

I have a 25mth old and a 4mth old and am tandem nursing and I know exactly how you feel. It can be very demanding - my toddler wants to nurse very frequently and the night-time thing seems impossible. We all co-sleep and everyone waking each other up is a nightmare...........

Don't be too hard on yourself - I lose my patience frequently and say awful things that I regret. I think being very stimulated feeding wise can be very stressful too, especially if your hubby is working long hours.

If you ever need a tandem-nursing vent, feel free to PM me and we can share our frustrations!

Hope things get better for you.......

Justine


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## cpop (May 3, 2006)

I have only one kid so I know it isn't the same but she has gone through some rabbid tantrum stages.
So the only thing I would suggest is that you could perhaps try meditation. Nothing big just ten-fifteen minutes before you go to sleep, in your bed even.
And practice letting go of the hurt, the guilt, the anger, the expectations you put to yourself and your child etc.
I found once I started doing this that it was much easier to get myself in the same kind of calm state of mind when she would have a tantrum, where I could react rationally which usually meant waiting it out, thinking rationally and removing yourself emotionally from the situation.
This may sound cold, but if the only emotion you have to offer at a specific moment is going to escalate the craziness you have to turn yourself off.

Another idea: if you are not totally opposed to this: my mom had four kids in five years and she said my sisters (who were cosleeping w my parents) got crazy jelous when I was born and one of them chucked me out of the crib which was pushed up against the bed.
At that point my mom moved me into the living room for my safety. I got used to the noise right away and my sisters calmed down.
Or maybe you could nurse your girl and wait for her to fall asleep in the living room and then transfer her to the family bed. Maybe she just needs that bedtime to be just you and her. And if the baby is sleeping maybe that would work.
Motherhood can be a really hard and lonely place, and like we say to our kids "it's okay to feel angry but it isn't okay to hit". Try to talk to your daughter and tell her you know it is hard, even if she won't talk back about it.
Try to get some counselling. It would help you all so much. And if you feel you are losing control this is not a luxury it is a necessity.
Good luck.


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## mojumi (Feb 1, 2006)

I have some similar experience with dh being gone for long stretches (out of town entirely) and being primary and secondary and tertiary (lol) careperson for two little ones. I know it sounds impossible, but a lot of it just gets better with practice.

For us, routine also helps. Bedtime and naptime at the same time every day. If one of my guys is overtired, they have such a harder time being calm, so I make resting a priority ... this also gives me the time to rest which I really need when I'm 'solo'.

We also find physically active things to do during the day ... OUT of the house. We get out our 'wigglies' and our 'yellies' in open spaces and (hopefully) come home ready for more quiet activities and rest.

This may not be true for everyone, but I found that dd (younger) is far more flexible than ds in terms of schedule and emotional even-ness, and this was especially true when she was an infant. She could hang out in the sling while I spent however long it took to settle ds to bed or figure out whatever was going on with him. If he woke her up, it really wasn't a big deal ... babies go back to sleep, and so much more easily than preschoolers in a meltdown. Can you use a sling to accomodate your youngest while still interacting with your oldest?

For the screaming, and the repeating ... I try to remember that, if ds does yell, he isn't yelling *at* me, it's his currently normal but bizarre way of communicating (for him) 'too much energy!' Your daughter is telling you something, but it's not as if an adult were screaming at you ... the intentionality is not the same at all, imo. The repeating, I start to think ds is just saying nonsense sounds over and over, so I repeat back with nonsense rhymes, then he starts rhyming, and then it's a game instead of annoying. This boy will be a poet, I know it, he can find a rhyme to anything. For some kids this may come out as dismissive, like if your dd said 'nummies nummies' and you responded 'yummie tummies?' I don't know if she would see that as a game or as you making light of her. For us it works.

Finally, we do use the tv more when dh is out of town. Mostly dvds. I do like the yoga for kids series, and they do too ... I'll hear both sitting in their rooms going 'ooooooooooohhhhhmmmmm' Anyway. we'll make trips to the library and borrow something new before dh goes, gives them something different to watch (and me some unpressured quiet time).

Realizing that it's your own impatience that is causing a lot of frustration, not your childrens natural behavior is a big deal. If you can find positive ways to reduce your own frustration, then everyone should feel happier.

Hope something in here, along with all the pp, will help you out.

many hugs-


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## snugg_bug (Nov 21, 2005)

Hugs to you mama....please - don't be so hard on yourself!!! When I first got on these boards, I could not believe how hard some of the mamas are on themselves. Not only that, but it seems that alot of the parents on the GD boards really give alot of themselves to their children, and sometimes I see that the more that they give, the more that their children can take. I think that your dark moment happened because of a loss of self control, much like your DD was experiencing. The fact that you are aware and realize that you want to change it is great. The only advice I have to offer is to talk to you spouse and try to figure out different avenues you can take during these times.


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## Roar (May 30, 2006)

I think it is very good that you are being honest about what is happening and seeking out help. I can tell you want to do what is best for your kids. I think what happened reflects no weakness in you but the exact thing that would happen to many people in your situation.

My answer may get me shot on the Mothering forums but here goes...

There are limits to what a mother can do and limits to what a mother should do. To me you should beyond the limits of physical and emotional exhaustion and when that happens to mom I can't see how it can be good for anyone. I understand tandem nursing and extended nursing can be great things, but there can also be a point where it is too much. I think this is the dirty little secret of attachment parenting that no one talks about. I personally know a handful of people who so reached the point of exhaustion that a positive nursing relationship ended in a very ugly way and in some of the cases that could have been prevented by mom being clearer earlier about her limits.

If your husband's schedule can't change, something else needs to. I would look at a way to build a schedule into the day that will result in your having a bit of alone time with your daughter if possible and some time alone for yourself too. Are you getting any break when your husband is at home? When is the last time you were alone for half an hour? Are you able to get any exercise? I would look first to how you can take care of yourself because that is fundamental and without it you won't be able to be there for your kids.


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## MissRubyandKen (Nov 2, 2005)

Sounds to me like you are a wonderful momma who is having very interrupted sleep and was at the end of your rope. It was a very dark moment, but dwelling on it won't undo it. Best you forgive yourself, apologize to your dd, and move on. That ONE moment does not reflect the whole of your mommyhood. From the rest of your post you sound very gentle. If this is the first time this has happened and the last, you are fine the way you are. A learning, evolving, growing, adapting momma-just like the best of us









OK, as for the tantrums. This is very normal, albiet frustrating behavior. Here's my thoughts-
Independence of sorts is very important to her right now. Do what you can to help her explore it. Find a small pitcher, or even a plastic cup she can pour from herself. Put her some(a tiny amount) water or milk in that and let her try it out. She may spill the first few times, it is a learning process too. Have something handy for her to clean the spill up with. If she spills just say 'Oops, here you go' and hand her the towel. Or if that's not for you right now then-have prepoured individual cups ready in the fridge that she can pick out herself. With nursing the little one this might be great all around, yk? Maybe you can even fill small lidded containers with cut up fruit or veggies or yogurt or whatever to put in there for her to get herself. Maybe designate a shelf somewhere for her also to put some dry food in individual portions and a few of her personal forks and spoons so she can reach these things herself.

And for the cutting the food thing, maybe you could cut off a small section of the food and hand her a butter knife, say 'Here you cut this piece and I'll cut this piece' She may make a try at it. She may just pulverize it, she may get frustrated she can't do it, heck I don't know, but you could let her try. That's what I did with my ds and it helped him feel content in that situation.

And the tantrums in general, there is really nothing you can do to make them stop all together, this is a phase. You can try to minimize them. I think it is ok to ask her, 'Do you want mommy to help you feel better or do you want to be alone for a minute?' Sometimes kids do want to be alone when they are feeling such strong feelings, that is okay! Sometimes we are all like that! I have seen it happen that a parent trying to calm their child has prolonged the tantrum. Sometimes a kid just wants to get all that out, they don't want to feel better yet. You can go about your business nearby without leaving her and let her know, 'When you are ready to feel better I am right here. Or- 'If you want a hug I am right here' or something similar. Sorry this is turning into a novel







, You just sounded so exhausted and I wanted to through out some ideas, anything. I hope the totally enraged toddler thing passes swift. She is probably just feeling these intense feelings for the first time in her little life and doesn't know how to process them, yk? Heck its tough sometimes for us big people who've been around the block to act on strong feelings without reducing to inappropriate and harming behavior. Try to be understanding and forgiving, of yourself and dd. Try to guide her through this as calmly as possible. Name her emotions for her- 'You are angry' 'You are frustrated' and offer help if you can. Offer a way to ease those feelings if you can or an alternative way to express them.


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## MissRubyandKen (Nov 2, 2005)

Ok like I didn't already







enough







. I forgot about the repeating thing, ds used to do that. At first it really drove me batty becasue I felt like I had to respond to him again and again and again etc. What helped me was to repeat what he had said and tell him I heard him. 'You would like a cup of juice, I heard you and I will get that as soon as possible, *insert reason here*ie I need to wash the raw meat off my hands, I am nursing etc.(Hey if you had cups already in the fridge she could handle this one herself







). Then after the second repeat-Yes I heard you, no need to repeat yourself, just a moment. Then don't answer back after that. Don't ignore her just don't answer back, then you'd just be repeating yourself again and again and again etc







: .It may not have stopped his repeating right away but it sure did help me out. At that age they just don't so much get the waiting thing, yk? Heck my ds is 4 now and waiting is still hard though he does have a small grasp on the concept of time it is not even close to mine. This too shall pass


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

You're human. You're not perfect and you make mistakes. The fact that you felt horribly guilty after slapping her shows that you ARE incredibly attached to your children and you know it was wrong.

I look at it this way: slapping her was like making a "withdrawal" from the "affection bank." It's definitely not a good thing to do or anything to be proud of, but I don't think it's going to cause any long term damage when you're otherwise a very attached mama. You may have shaken her trust in you, but you didn't destroy it.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

My first two children are two years apart and there was a big period of adjustment for all of us. I was sleep deprived and had no time for myself, so it was hard to be patient. And my 2yo seemed so big (she had advanced verbal skills), so I expected her to have more emotional maturity than she was capable of. You were right when you said "it is MY OWN impatience and expectations that lead me to anger and yelling." I think that is true for everyone.

Screaming, yelling and repeating are things a lot of kids this age do. When kids are developing their communication skills they do this to ensure they are heard. It can help to repeat back to them what they are saying, "You're mad because I put the blue pajamas on your doll," or "You _really_ want to do __ right now." When she continues to scream about it, get down on her level and let her know you hear her, "wow! I hear how much you want to do ___ right now. You sound so disappointed (or angry, frustrated, mad)." She will learn how to communicate without the screaming and yelling, but it takes some time.

Hang in there! Be patient and forgiving with yourself.


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## Faithsmom (Oct 3, 2004)

Thank you all for your replies.
Last night I hadn't even gone to sleep yet when DD came into bed. She nursed and we fell asleep. She then nursed a couple of times and then the baby woke up and came into bed. He only nursed twice in the night, but I was woken up about every 45min-1hour being asked to nurse by DD. I have a migraine today on top of things. DH won't be home until after 7pm.

As for the help. Believe it or not, I live next door to my parents. Ideal situation is seems. Well its not. I also have a 7 yr old little sister. When my sister comes to play or we go there, DD is antagonized and all she does is scream. I DO let DD be somewhat independent because that is what she likes, but when we are over there I am made to feel like an incompetent mother who doesn't do anything for her child. I have explained over and over that she ENJOYS doing certian things for herself and will screram if I try to do it for her. Anyway, this is a complex situation.. could get really long and is just not worth my time getting upset about it today.

I also have very few friends and even fewer friends who have children.

I do go to my grandmothers house once in awhile to get away with the kids. They love it there.....

Thank you for all of the suggestions and for not making me feel like I am an awful mother. When you have someone like DD screaming at you all day and then your own parents making you feel like a failure you start to believe that you really suck at this.

I will post more later. So far today is going well. No screaming yet.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Faithsmom*
I did think slapping her would stop her. I know it sounds stupid, but I thought the shock value would make her stop.










I'm very sorry







Sometimes it takes the worst things to teach us valuble lessons. You thought the shock of being slapped would make her stop screaming. Now you know and certainly will never forget that indeed that is not true. You don't have to worry about resorting to slapping again. This experience was traumatic enough that I doubt you would want to repeat it. I don't have any suggestions really- I just hope you can take a little bit of comfort in knowing that a good lesson has been learned here.


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## Tonia80 (Jun 10, 2006)

I want to share with you the fact that I too reached a point of breaking when my oldest was two and I also reacted by slapping him. I too thought it would stop him in his tracks. I am telling you this because I want you to know you are NOT failing as a mom and arenot alone in feeling this way. Being a mom can be very trying emotionally, mentally and physically. Believe me, I know. I have three spirited children. A 5 year old who is very hyper, impulsive, whiny, argumentive and anxiety prone. A three year old who is highly aggressive, angry, stubborn and does not ever sleep through the night and wakes at least twice a night and is still up at 6. Andf a 13 month odl who is very attached to me and wakes every hour to two hours to nurse allnight. I have days I want to cry, days I do. For me, it gets harder when I have no break, no time alone, no one to help. The best advice I can offer is to be forgiving of yourself and of her. And try to make sure you are more than just mom. When I take just a half hour at the library alone i come back feeling refreshed and far more patient than if I just stayed home with them. Its okay to need that. I went through bad PPD twice and learned its better to be a little selfish than to be a mommy who is gonna lose it on her children, ya know? I would MUCH rather my children recall how once and awhile they missed thier mommy when she went bye bye for an hour than to recall me screaming at them or slapping them, ya know?
Hugs to you momma. And keep in mind, that no matter how insane it might be, THIS TOO WILL PASS!!!


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## obiandelismom (May 31, 2005)

It's so hard to have two, and you are actually entering the hardest part of it right now! Big help, huh??







But it will get better, I promise! I agree with focusing more on your own needs, and just trying to get through each day with the faith that things WILL get better.

But a couple of actual suggestions:

1. I know you said that your DD "loves loves loves" the baby, and to this point it may have been true. But at around month three, often older siblings change their tune. If your daughter is clued into the fact that you EXPECT loving feelings toward the baby, she may not feel safe expressing less-than-loving ones. You might try opening up that discussion a little, in a really basic way - "Babies are sweet, but sometimes they NEED so much, don't they?" Your DD might be feeling rotten inside because she has all these "bad" feelings - kind of like how you felt so rotten for not liking her that one night.

2. You may already do this, but both my kids responded very well to empathetic statements at around that age, especially when perseverating ("Nummies, nummies, nummies..." etc). My younger DS was a champion fit-thrower, but if I could get through to him that I *got* why he was upset, then the fits would be MUCH shorter. "You really REALLY wanted more nummies. It's so hard when you can't have what you want. I wish they weren't empty. I bet you wish you could have nummies ALL THE TIME!! When you wake up you will be able to have more nummies." Honestly, there were some times with my DS that I sounded like a nut droning on and on in this way! But once he realized that I really did understand and empathize with whatever was wrecking his day, he would settle down.

Good luck! It is SUCH a hard time, and the simple fact that you are holding yourself responsible for mistakes is admirable. Hang in there!


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

Faithsmom,

I hope today is better for y'all







Please consider giving yourself permission to ignore your parents telling you anything about inadequacies. They can say anything they want, but it doesn't make it true







You sound like a really caring mama who is learning from her mistake. I really know what it's like to be in that dark, awful moment. You're not alone


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## Magella (Apr 5, 2004)

YK, this is a really hard time for both you and your daughter. Having a new baby is tough. You're still, IMO, recovering from pregnancy and birth and you're getting used to being mommy to two kids. Your daughter, as much as she loves her baby brother, is also still getting used to sharing you. And as much as she loves him, this is very likely very stressful to her and she's probably also having some very difficult feelings about him. I would bet that this is a big part of her difficult behavior, along with the fact that being 29 months old is just hard sometimes. One thing that I learned after the birth of my second child is that it's so very important to talk about all the feelings siblings have when a new baby is born-the good and the not-so-good.

Having been through some very tough times as a parent myself, I will say that absolutely the biggest key to everything has been taking care of myself. I can't always make the difficult behaviors go away, but I can take care of myself so that I can cope with them better. Taking care of myself might mean getting away from the kids for awhile, but more often it means: being gentle with myself even when I make mistakes, getting as much sleep as I can (which wasn't always much when I had little babies), getting outside for sunlight and excercise, making time (even two minutes) for something not completely child-oriented (like reading a magazine article, calling a friend, reading a page of a book, whatever is interesting and enjoyable), eating well (not just foods that are good for me, but remembering to eat-it's oddly easy to forget to eat), drinking plenty of water, and understanding and accepting that things are the way they are in any given moment and that sometimes I will find a solution that makes things better and sometimes I won't (so always I try to just breathe and get through it without pressuring myself to make it change-that's too much pressure, I can't control everything).

Also, I've found that it's so important not to judge my worth or effectiveness as a parent by my children's behavior, by others' opinions about my parenting, or by my mistakes (though learning from my mistakes is important). I do the best I am able to do in each moment, and that is all any human being can do.

Take care.


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## janethemom (Apr 6, 2006)

I too think you're doing a fine job and you sound like a gentle mamma. I'm sorry that things are so hard right now. I agree with a lot of the suggestions you've gotten like getting help and giving your dd more control when possible.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned that I'd like to throw out there is diet. I'm a new poster on these forums and haven't read the archives here so I don't know how people feel about the idea of diet affecting behavior in general. From what I've heard and read, extreme tantrums can sometimes be related to food sensitivities/allergies, especially if they are frequent. Does this strike you as a possiblity?


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## Mama8 (Mar 6, 2006)

From one Mama to another







There are certain children that take temper tantrum to new levels. I know I have one. She is now 31 months old and it is a bit better than a few months ago with less absolute melt downs but we still have them. These are beyond normal tantrums that my other 6 dds have displayed growing up. These are so out of control.....anyway, what I want to say is that the behavior your dd displayed is normal behavior for some 2 yr olds. They are so frustrated by what they want to to do and what they can do. Plus they now want to have independence. For some babies this can be a boiling point. My dd #5 is pretty contrary right now. She wants the exact opposite that is offered. "I want the horsey!" "You want the horsey?" "No! No! No horsey!" "Okay, no horsey" "Yes, horsey! I want horsey! I want horsey!" As she grabs it out of my hand! It can push the whole family to their limits.







What we have found that helps cut down on this is to make sure dd is fed, distracted, when she starts winding up we remind her gently to "use your words" of course being tired sets her up for a meltdown. We do use the TV for distraction and give her the opprotunity as much as possible to make her own decissions. We try to say no as little as possible and snapping at her only makes it worse. That said, we still have the meltdowns where none of this has worked. During those times I stay available and try to remain calm and let the energy blow itself out. Sometimes with her it can take an hour or so, seriously. I know when it is blowing out is when I can ask her if she wants to cuddle she will nod and let me pick her up, until then there is nothing I can do to get to her. We are in cramped quaters for our family too. We have a family of 9 in a small duplex. If waking the baby gets you uptight I would remove the 2 yr old to another room while she storms. When she is melting down she is not in control of herself and can not just stop or quiet down. Her emotions are beyond her control at the moment. Try to remember that "this too shall pass". As she matures she will be better able to redirect that energy. Hang in there and good luck.


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## Wugmama (Feb 10, 2005)

It is so hard. Every time I have a bad situation occur with my dd or ds, I go over it in my mind and think of how I can try to handle it next time. It sounds like you are already doing that. It does help.

We all get to be a little bit better at this mothering thing day by day.








s

~Tracy


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## Faithsmom (Oct 3, 2004)

Once again, thank you all for your replies. I agree, it has onl been three months and we are still transitioning. At the same time if feels like it has been so much longer than three months and we should be used to this right now.
To the mamas who have 4,5,6,7 kiddos.... how do you stay sane and not "lose yourself"? I totally do not get any time for myself and I only have 2! Actually, DH and I went to dinner and a movie the other night. I had to ask my grandparents to watch the kids because I now refuse to ask my parents. I'm made to feel awful if I ask them to watch the kids so we can go out.

Mama8: How do you keep your sanity in such cramped living arrangements? I feel that is my biggest "trigger". The house is always cluttered. No matter how I arrange it, what I do.... I feel claustrophobic. I think then I just begin to spiral downward....


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## waimeagirl (Feb 9, 2003)

YOU ARE NOT ALONE
Girl I am right there with you in the fight for sanity. I too have a dh who works a lot and often times joke that I am a single parent...though under the laughs it is far from funny.
I too have had dark moments...wish I could say I have only had one. Lost tempers, ignoring the fussing, heaven forbid not being 110% at the end of a 120% day.
All I can say is do not forget that you are human, that you are fallible, and that only you have the power to enforce change. It may be as simple...do not read easy... as giving dear Faith more structure or responsibility during the day so that she is not grasping for so much control from her num nums....I personally LOVE R. Bailys' Easy to Love Difficult to Discipline...it is like a bible for me dealing with me and for me dealing w/ ds.


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## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

Oh mama









Your post made me cry. From what I read you are a mighty patient, understanding and very much in touch with your kids emotions mama! Yeah, you snapped, by oh my, I think many of us could or have.

You are going through the tough tough time and it sounds like you are as in control of it as you can. I liked many responces of yours that I read in the OP! I don't think I can offer anything smarter than that and what the other posters recommended, honestly. Just wanted to voice my support and understanding.

PS. Ever thought about writing? I felt like I was right there in your room when I was reading your post...


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## Faithsmom (Oct 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *irinam*
Oh mama









Your post made me cry. From what I read you are a mighty patient, understanding and very much in touch with your kids emotions mama! Yeah, you snapped, by oh my, I think many of us could or have.

You are going through the tough tough time and it sounds like you are as in control of it as you can. I liked many responces of yours that I read in the OP! I don't think I can offer anything smarter than that and what the other posters recommended, honestly. Just wanted to voice my support and understanding.

PS. Ever thought about writing? I felt like I was right there in your room when I was reading your post...


you made me smile. I have a literature degree.... so yeah...


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## newmommy (Sep 15, 2003)

faith:

You are a Good Mom.

You are a Good Mom.

You are a Good Mom.

I just want you to REALLY *hear* those words and *Believe* them.

I have ALOT of respect for your post. Lots of Moms all over the world have those "dark moments" I know I do.

Your DD's behavior is normal...just your typical Toddler behavior...Toddlerhood is no joke and I firmly believe...for some children...it takes Lots and Lots and Lots and Lots of Patience!


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## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

i empathize. it's tough in any transition. it sounds like faith is having a hard time, too.

i have no words of wisdom, but i can recommend a book (for all your free reading time







: ) i just read Toxic Parents and found it sooo helpful for all of the ways i felt judged by my family of origin (and all the ways i had internalized those messages and beliefs about children, their behaviour and how to deal with it) and how i was allowing those deep-seeded beliefs that i didn't even necessarily know i had, to influence my life and my parenting.

you are having a hell of a time right now. i hope you are feeling supported and stronger. and i agree with everyone, tandem nursing IS mentally and physically exhausting at times. you sound like a very dedicated mom who made a mistake (gee, none of us here could claim not to have made a plethora of mistakes along the way). you will find ways to manage, and to help dd manage. you need to give yourself some time.

hang in there.


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

awww...so tough mama

I think its IMPORTANT to break down and cry on occasion, if you really need to.

She understood that. She had some knowledge of what was happening...

I have rarely broken down and cried in anger/frustration/exhaustion, but the few times it happened..WHAM! It got their attention

This is a tough time for you...lots of hugs..


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## Mama8 (Mar 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Faithsmom*
To the mamas who have 4,5,6,7 kiddos.... how do you stay sane and not "lose yourself"?
Mama8: How do you keep your sanity in such cramped living arrangements? ..

Honestly sometimes I don't







: The best things for me and the girls are getting out of the house going to the mountains, swimming, the zoo etc. Second is to make time for myself. I just had to recently recommit to that. I had lost myself. I try and find moments during the day for myself if it is only a shower. I also journal. Write down all I am feeling. It really does help. Then I vent vent vent to my sister and my mother. I have had to learn to let go and realise my house will never be really clean until the children are grown. A dirty house is my big trigger. I forget who originally said it but, "Cleaning the house before the children are grown is like shoveling the walk during a snowstorm!"







I also spend time on MDC reading parenting books. Sometimes though I still get stressed out and lose it. I think most of us do. Afterward I apologized pick back up on being an affective loving parent and plod on. What more can righteously be expected of us?


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## peacelovingmama (Apr 28, 2006)

You have gotten some really good advice here. I don't have much to add. Just please make sure that you are finding time to nurture yourself as well as your children.

And forgive yourself. We ALL make mistakes and our children will be fine. You just need to do the post-incident work to try to make sure this doesn't happen again. And, if I were you, I would apologize for the hitting. I think that can be really healthy. I once put DS in time-out whereupon he screamed and urinated on himself. I felt so horrible. I did apologize and I have also forgiven myself. I hope will also cut yourself some slack. Children don't need perfect parents. Just good-enough ones.


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## Three~Little~Birds (Jan 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *georgia*
Faithsmom,

I hope today is better for y'all







Please consider giving yourself permission to ignore your parents telling you anything about inadequacies. They can say anything they want, but it doesn't make it true







You sound like a really caring mama who is learning from her mistake. I really know what it's like to be in that dark, awful moment. You're not alone

















:

I, too, can relate. My kids are 22 mos. apart. I tandem nursed for two years too. The first year was very difficult. I have moments where I know that I was not a perfect Mom. I know that I just try my best all of the time. Tomorrow is a new day. Go easy on yourself.


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## francesmct (Jul 8, 2004)

Thank you for posting. I am tandem nursing a 27 month old and a 4 month old. My fuse is so much shorter after having another baby. I really feel sometimes like I am disintegrating...like who is this person? I yell at least once a day. I sometimes feel totally out of control and have to use all my energy just to stop from doing something crazy. You've got some great advice, and you are not alone....we are all just doing the very best that we can. Be kind to yourself too.((((HUGS))))


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## newmainer (Dec 30, 2003)

This might be quick and cryptic b/c i am trying to keep and eye on my 3 yr. old and 7 week son lying on the floor but i've thought about your post a lot.

i had nearly the exact same situation a few months ago, when i was pregnant with ds. Dd was all over my breasts and i kept telling her no gently and giving her gentle redirection but she continuted to persist. i didn't hit her, but i grabbed her arms forcefully and yelled at her to leave me alone. then i lost it and just covered my face and sobbed. dd was silent. when i took my hands away, she was right there next to me,covering her face like i was. it was like a knife in my heart. *then* she freaked out and ran away from me saying she wanted daddy and didn't want to see me. it was a real turning point for me, and such great preparation for some of the challenges we've had since ds was born. i just wanted to share because it really hit home...

as far as the independence thing, my dd went through the same stage and here are some things we did that made a *world* of difference.

first, we moved all the "kid" dishes and cups to a shelf she could reach. then we just say, "dd, please come choose your----" and even if she took 5, or 10 minutes to do it, it was far better than a power struggle or tantrum. same went for clothes, getting her toothbrush ready etc... basically, if she could do it or attempt to do it, we let her. often she might only get a few tries in and then ask us to do whatever it was, and we would with no protests from her.

in the kitchen, i let her start cutting soft things like mushrooms with a butter knife under close supervision. i would cut apples into slices and then she would make them into chunks. now she uses a "semi" sharp knife and helps with carrots and all veggies. its' great actually! now that my hands are often tied with ds, i can set her up helping with dinner or salad veggies and it's a real help.

this was such the big thing in our house about jan-april and then it just disappeared. slowly we started just doing things normally again and its ok. so, it does pass. i agree with all those who said dont' be so hard on yourself and that you're doing great...

oh, and as for the screaming... I *wish* i knew what to do about that!







:


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## Marlisesmom (Apr 19, 2006)

Hugs to you Faith's mom. I think every mom has a moment (or two) that she is not proud of... I have a bad temper and have really had to find ways to keep it in check now that I'm a mom. I see my friends who are more patient and I think that my daughter deserves that treatment too, that keeps me in check. Also I have to stop to think for even just one second before I start screaming, that I'll be a happier person later...if I don't.

I cried when I read your post because it reminds me of all my mommy monster moments. It's so hard to keep it together, but it makes life SO much easier when you do. You're NOT alone. Don't dwell on the past, move forward and do your best...starting now. She deserves it. I'm thinking of you and glad that you found the courage to reach out and make this post.


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## royals95 (Aug 28, 2005)

Just wanted to send some support







and let you know that you're not alone! My two have about the same spacing (25 months) and I'm also tamdem nursing. We've had some really hard days, especially when I'm short on sleep, we have to be somewhere and DS is feeling particularly independent. I definitely second what some other PP have said about letting your DD make some choices. After DH and I decided to let DS make more decisions, he had far fewer tantrums and the ones he did have were less severe. Don't get me wrong, he still has some doozys, but just not as often.

Hopefully, you're having a better day today. Hang in there!


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## Faithsmom (Oct 3, 2004)

Once again, thank you to everyone for your supposrt and replies.

Yesterday, I took the kids to the librbry and took out some books. DD had such a great time. (book stores and librbrys are like toy stores to her.) I also was able to meet another mama who had a three month old baby girl who is into breastfeeding and babywearing and whatnot, so I felt pretty good. When we got home, DD asked to nurse and said she wanted to sleep. I was so excited because I was soooooo tired. She had nursed like every 45-1hour the night before.
Well, she nursed and would not fall asleep. She wanted to go play. My eyes were rolling in my head. So off the bed she went... and I started to break down inside....
My sister (7 yrs old) came over from next door and started to say that she was "sooo hot... I wish I could go in the pool" . She does these kind of things because she knows that my DD will start to ask and then flip out if I say no. Well, I told her "mommy doesn't want to swim right now. I am too tired. Do you want to color/do puzzles/playdolls etc??????
*BUG OUT*
Both girls go next door.
They come back about 10 minutes later (oh... BTW, I'm nursing DS through all of this) and DD is in her bathing suit.
WTF????????
"We are going through the sprinkler". My sis announces.
"Who will be watching you"? I ask.
"Dad".
"Fine. go."

Here lies the problem.......
I was not angry that they were going through the sprinkler but because I WAS TOLD this is what they are going to do. I f I had said, "I would have liked you to ASK me first" My sis would have screamed "you're so mean!" (which DD now says to me on a regular basis because she emulates her aunt)
So, I just said "fine."

I hate feeling like I don't exist, like what I have to say doesn't matter. I feel like they do not respect me.

I have said things to my parents about this behavior in the past, but it all comes down to them telling me that I PICK ON MY LITTLE SISTER!!!! Can you freakin believe that? No I don't pick on her, I would prefer that I AM MY DAUGHTERS MOTHER and not the 7 yr old!!! So because her "auntie" says it's ok? It's ok? I think not!!

Anyway... this all sent me into a downward spiral emotionally. 30 seconds later I was on the phone w/ DH telling him I can't live here anymore... this close to them... and that I am taking Luke and running away. While on the phone w/ DH, my grandparents (whom I despise.. they are evil people and the sight of them sends me into high anxiety) come over!!! UUUGGGH!

Well, that was all yesterday.

Today, I took the kids (my sister invited herself along, which was no big deal) to a magic show at the library. It was funny and they had a good time. DD is really tired herself today. She only nursed twice in the night and DH didn't have to leave for work until 11am so I got to sleep late (he's working until 10pm tonight though). I'm feeling a bit better w/ more sleep. I feel I am more patient.

Anyway, I'm looking into joining a gym, or taking a pottery class or doing something that will get me out of the house an hour or so here and there BY MYSELF.

I'm also wondering if this could be PPD again. I had it quite severely w/ DD. It doesn't *feel* the same as it did w/ her so I am not sure that it is PPD this time around or the fact that I am stressed and tired.

That is my update for now. Thank you all for helping me out.

BTW.. I also have a ton of GD books on order from the library!


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

Oh wow. That close-by-family thing sounds SO difficult!

I don't know about PPD, but to me it sounds like you have actual *reasons* for being depressed, which says to me there might be things to do about them, and then maybe you wouldn't feel depressed?

I think you and your parents NEED to hash things out about your sister. Have them, perhaps, imagine if your sister were 20 and doing the same things. Right now perhaps it's being allowed by them because she's nearly a peer to your daughter. But if she were an adult it would be a lot easier to set boundaries. Perhaps that conversation-start could get something rolling?

My sister is 25 years younger than me (so she's 11), and when she has visited I could see things going that way. But since she lives 2 states away it's not a big deal; playing with her is a treat. Next door though, man that's bad.

And of course if your sister were *just* a neighbor, it would again be easy to make boundaries, and if her parents had a problem with it, again, it would be easy to talk to them about it. I guess I have no answers, just validation for what a difficult situation it all is!

Don't run away though...but IS there a way for you guys to move away?

Or at least change the locks and put up curtains to make sure they can't just come/see in?


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I have no advice. But, I am sorry. I know how awful this feels. My daughter is 13, and I have soooo many dark moments to look back on, and it doesn't feel any better 10 or more years later.

Talk about this to her. Tell her you are sorry you slapped her. Promise her you wont slap her again. You are human, and you made a mistake. Your daughter loves you so much that she will forgive you. You deserve to forgive yourself too. (hard, I know)

Next time, maybe if you have a book in bed with you, and you start to read it out loud, she _might_ stop screaming and get involved in the book. OR (my daughter's favorite) get the lotion out, and ask her if she wants a back rub. Ask in an excited animated voice, like this is the best lotion in the entire world.

Good luck with the screaming. The funny thing is, if you didn't live in an apartment, the screaming wouldn't really bother you. I know you can't just subject your neighbors to screaming at 9:00 p.m, so it drives you crazy that she is doing it. I hope your neighbors are understanding.


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## Faithsmom (Oct 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mollyeilis*
Oh wow. That close-by-family thing sounds SO difficult!

I don't know about PPD, but to me it sounds like you have actual *reasons* for being depressed, which says to me there might be things to do about them, and then maybe you wouldn't feel depressed?

I think you and your parents NEED to hash things out about your sister. Have them, perhaps, imagine if your sister were 20 and doing the same things. Right now perhaps it's being allowed by them because she's nearly a peer to your daughter. But if she were an adult it would be a lot easier to set boundaries. Perhaps that conversation-start could get something rolling?

My sister is 25 years younger than me (so she's 11), and when she has visited I could see things going that way. But since she lives 2 states away it's not a big deal; playing with her is a treat. Next door though, man that's bad.

And of course if your sister were *just* a neighbor, it would again be easy to make boundaries, and if her parents had a problem with it, again, it would be easy to talk to them about it. I guess I have no answers, just validation for what a difficult situation it all is!

Don't run away though...but IS there a way for you guys to move away?

Or at least change the locks and put up curtains to make sure they can't just come/see in?


thank you so much for your reply.

i have tried over & over to talk to them about my sister. I really feel its a lost cause. It is so much worse now that summer is here and she is around 24/7. When everyone had school or work it was so peaceul here. the chaos didn't start until 4pm .









As for the locks & curtians. we have curtains and a chain lock. DD was getting up in the am and going over there in her jammies as soon as she figured out how to open the door. We have a chain up, so sis has to knock and dd needs to ask to go over there. My parents, i do have to say.... never walk in here as they please. they do respect those boundaries.

and moving away....
hmmm you would have to see where we live to understand my quandry. we live on at least a acre? right next door to a horse farm. it is beautiful.

i talked to dh about moving and we agreed to save money this summer and see how things are financially in sept. dh stresses about $, but really has no clue about our finances other than how much he makes. i pay all the bills etc. I now we could afford it, but he's freaked because we just took on a car loan.... anyway.....







:

nak of course


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## newmainer (Dec 30, 2003)

Does your dd go to bed earlier if she doesn't nap?

My dd gave up naps around 2.5. At first, it was super hard to get through the day without a nap myself, but once we got into the swing of it, it was *great* because she would go to bed around 6:30pm, super easy cause she was so exhausted, and then i had this nice, long relaxing evening. I actually dread it when she does fall asleep in the car or something because it means she's up later and i literally go to bed when she does. It's like i get no break at all.

perhaps she's ready to give up her nap? if you can find a new rhythm to the day, it might work better for all of you and alleviate that stress of trying to get her down. i used to get so, so worked up when she would take forever or not nap at all because i had this expectation that she would. but as soon as i dropped the expectation, things really lightened up.


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## Faithsmom (Oct 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *newmainer*
Does your dd go to bed earlier if she doesn't nap?

My dd gave up naps around 2.5. At first, it was super hard to get through the day without a nap myself, but once we got into the swing of it, it was *great* because she would go to bed around 6:30pm, super easy cause she was so exhausted, and then i had this nice, long relaxing evening. I actually dread it when she does fall asleep in the car or something because it means she's up later and i literally go to bed when she does. It's like i get no break at all.

perhaps she's ready to give up her nap? if you can find a new rhythm to the day, it might work better for all of you and alleviate that stress of trying to get her down. i used to get so, so worked up when she would take forever or not nap at all because i had this expectation that she would. but as soon as i dropped the expectation, things really lightened up.


We just started doing this. She fell asleep at 730pm tonight. DS just fell asleep. It is hard to get through the last couple of hours of the day because she tantrums more when she is tired... it is nice to have a quiet evening once she is sleeping.


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## Mountaingirl3 (May 21, 2005)

Oh, Honey







. I'm tearing up for you because I know that feeling well.

Faith sounds a bit like my second dd. She would become absolutely unhinged about the smallest thing--often totally unpredictable. She would scream the same word over and over . . . Her tolerence for frustration was zero.

This started getting much better when she was about three. (Before that, she was actually to the point of breath-holding-spells until she'd pass out.) By three and a half it was amazing how much more patience and self-control she had. Now, she's four and still very intense, but the tantrums have just melted away. When she starts to get upset, she can still listen to me, and I can calm her--it's wonderful.

It may not help right now, but this, too, shall pass. She is growing up every day, and becoming more and more capable of managing her emotions.

Try to remember that storms pass over so much more quickly for kids. Your dd has a super loving mama, and that has a much bigger effect than the couple times you lose it. You're the absolutely the best mom for her, mistakes and all.

Just today, I grabbed my dd roughly. Sigh. You are not alone--this parenting stuff is really hard! One thing that helps me is to pick up the baby and hold him. That keeps me from getting physical with dd's.


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## Faithsmom (Oct 3, 2004)

Update:
She fell asleep at 730pm last night. DS fell asleep after her I think around 930pm. DH came home last night around 1030pm and we were talking about our days and he agreed it would be good for me (and all of us because I would be happier etc..) if maybe I joined a gym or enrolled in a class or something to get me out w/o kids for an hour here or there. He has been very supportive and is doing his best to help me when he is home.

I had just rolled over to go to sleep after our conversation when DD woke up at 12am. I nursed her and got comfortable and I fell asleep around 1230am.

DS woke up somewhere in there and came into be and nursed.

DD woke up bright eyed and bushy tailed at 5am this morning. I'm hoping I can get a nap out of her sometime today. We have a family party to go to (which she loves) at 7pm tonight, so it doesn't matter about having an early bedtime and she will do better having a nap under her belt rather than being overtired and overstimulated. KWIM? We'll see.

I'm hoping to take her to the story & craft hour at the library today at 1030am if she is awake at that time.

So far her mood is wonderful. She is smiley and happy today.

I'll keep you all updated on how our day goes today.

Thank you all again. So much. I really appreciate all of this.


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## georgia (Jan 12, 2003)

I experienced PPD with all three of mine, and each time, it manifested itself differently. With my second and third, it was around 3 months when times were first darkest. I remember not wanting to go to bed at night b/c it meant I'd have to wake up in the morning and start again







You might want to check out the PPD forum for further support, just because. I know how hard it is, PPD or not. Hang in, mama. We're all here for you







. Transitions are hard on everyone


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## Tonia80 (Jun 10, 2006)

I just wanted to send hugs to you. I sooooo can relate when it comes to family and how you mentioned your daughter picking up on your sisters attitude...I have an 8 yr old sis and we lived with them for awhile so I GET IT!!!!
Sounds like the library was a hit and sounds like DD needs to have fun out of teh house with kids her own age too. Does your library do a weekly toddler story time? Is there a moms group nearby? (they often post at libraries) My kids act up when they have been stuck in the house too long. They get just as sick of me....LOL
I hope you get more sleep soon! I am going through this right now,. My spirited 3 yr old can survive on a few hours a night and I CANNOT! And my 13 month old is still up a few times to nurse every night. My days alwasy start by 6 am and I know how that makes it all more trying/ Hugs!!!


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## mammastar2 (Dec 17, 2004)

Sounds like if you guys can move away from your family it will help!

In the meantime, more outings...I know when we lived in an apartment how totally snaky we would go if we didn't get out. Maybe try to do an outing each morning - library, park, playgroup (may find one at a church, community centre, etc), etc. Having all that acreage is grand, but if it means your family is always looking over your sholder, you may want to go further afield. Are there any museums around? When dd was little, even heading to the mall to throw a coin in the fountain and have a snack helped.


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## Faithsmom (Oct 3, 2004)

ITA about outings etc... thats why I started going to the library w/ her. She loves it. Today was the first time we were going to story time and she fell asleep right before we were getting ready to leave.
Even though I'm exhausted tody I've been trying to keep my cool.

I have a big makeup kit that I hardly ever use (not expensive...) so I sat on the floor while DS was asleep and I let the girls (DD & sis) do my hair and makeup. I looked like a clown, but who cares? It kept them quiet, they got along and had fun. DD is standing at the living room table right now w/ a smock on putting makeup on herself while I sit here and nurse DS.
(BTW, I don't think this is sending a message of makeup = beauty or anything. I leave the house w/o makeup and don't wear itvery often so I don't see that I am sending that message w/ this activity.)

I'm watching her and she is being so cute right now.... she is being so careful putting everything on... hehe.... (AND SHE'S NOT SCREAMING AT ME!!!)

I think my being more uninvolved than involved and worrying more about what the house looks like than playing with her makes a cranky girl. I think she just wants my attention.


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## irinam (Oct 27, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Faithsmom*
ITA about outings etc... thats why I started going to the library w/ her. She loves it. Today was the first time we were going to story time and she fell asleep right before we were getting ready to leave.
Even though I'm exhausted tody I've been trying to keep my cool.

I have a big makeup kit that I hardly ever use (not expensive...) so I sat on the floor while DS was asleep and I let the girls (DD & sis) do my hair and makeup. I looked like a clown, but who cares? It kept them quiet, they got along and had fun. DD is standing at the living room table right now w/ a smock on putting makeup on herself while I sit here and nurse DS.
(BTW, I don't think this is sending a message of makeup = beauty or anything. I leave the house w/o makeup and don't wear itvery often so I don't see that I am sending that message w/ this activity.)

I'm watching her and she is being so cute right now.... she is being so careful putting everything on... hehe.... (AND SHE'S NOT SCREAMING AT ME!!!)

I think my being more uninvolved than involved and worrying more about what the house looks like than playing with her makes a cranky girl. I think she just wants my attention.

Yes!









I am so glad you are finding your "groove". Hope those moments of tranquility (relative, LOL) will happen more and more often


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## sweetpea333 (Jul 2, 2005)

im crying right now







cuz i also just had a freak out ..i have two daughters 8 months and 23 months and my oldest wont stop hitting and touching my youngest and hurting her, i finally put her in a bedroom shut the door and went into the living room







i can really understand your frustrations cuz i can relaete, with having a young one and one that is throwing tantrums... and am having a hard time dealing and i dont have any good advice because im in the same boat..







but here's a hug


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## Mygirlsrock (Jun 15, 2006)

I couldn't read and not post. But I sympathize with your situation, It must be so frustrating. I wish you all the best. Don't beat yourself up, we all have our trying moments. Hugs to you.


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## Faithsmom (Oct 3, 2004)

UPDATE:

It's been about 3 days now of me trying tro be involved rather than disconnected. Making a concoius effort not to yell and being FOOD DYE FREE. Not sure which one did the trick but yesterday I took her grocery shopping (this is usually very stressful for me) and she was a perfect angel. I went to peapod .com and made my grocery list and printed it out with the pictures that way she could help me by taking care of the list. She was very involved . I had the baby in the wrap and my sister with us. I have to say it was a pleasure and I felt like I had accomplished something. I had a "good mom moment". She has also become very affectionate again.

I'm almost done reading "The Hidden Feelings of Motherhood. Coping with stress, depression and burnout" By Kathleen A. Kendall-Tackett PHD.

I've come to realize that I am "burnt out" rather than "depressed" right now.
I highly recommend this book. I found it in the LLL catalogue and got it from my library. I am going to start "Playful Parenting" after I finish this book.

I also had a long talk w/ DH and he agreed that he thinks some time to take care of ME is important. He agrees that "when mom's happy, everyone is happy". So, yesterday I joined a gym. I figure this is a way I can relieve stress along with having time to think, meet new people and have time to myself.

Thank you all for your input.

TO ALL OF YOU THAT ARE IN THE SAME BOAT:
Maybe try what I have tried (and what seems to be working so far)

No yelling.
Make sure to have one on one play time
go on outings... get out of the house
take food dyes completely out of the childs diet! (you'd be surprised which foods have them!)
Take time for yourself.

So far so good. I'll keep you updated on my expiriment.


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## naturalli (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Faithsmom*
Not because of the screaming, but because I couldn't stand her. I didn't like her and I never wanted to feel that way twards her. I love her. I was so sad that I could feel that for her.







:
... I feel like such an awful mother. Like she hates me. I love her so much and I feel like I am failing her.

this totally made me cry (as i sit here listening to and very frustrated with my screaming son). why do we sometimes feel this way? it's really hard, huh? i love my son dearly but sometimes i can't stand him and it really tears me up when i feel this way. just wanted you to know that i totally understand where you're coming from and what you're feeling.

take care,
liane


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## squirrelletta (Jan 25, 2005)

Smile & huggs...your doing great mama...and your (we're all) a human being too.


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