# we did everything right and it all turned out wrong



## alisoninparis (Nov 5, 2005)

DD is 9.5 months old, still breastfed, and I am an attached mom. We have been doing everything "right" since she was born-co-sleeping, never letting her cry, breastfeeding on demand, lots of love all the time, lots of babywearing, etc. But DD hates sleeping and things have been getting steadily worse over the last few months, to the point that if this keeps going on, DH and I are going to have to get a divorce. The stress and lack of sleep is so bad that were are both depressed and frustrated. We love DD desperately and want to do what's best for her, but DH is starting to crack and insist we let her cry it out. I refuse to do that, but I have to admit I can't see any other way to prevent a total meltdown in our home.

Here's the rundown of DD's life so far:

0-4 months: exclusively co-sleeping; naps just about anywhere (esp. in her hammock). Finicky day napper, good night sleeper (wakes to nurse but goes right back to sleep, hardly cries)
4-5 months: starts out the night in her crib either having fallen asleep on her own or with our comforting, comes into our bed when she awakes to nurse; naps mostly in her hammock.
5-6 months: co-sleeps 2nd part of night, learns to roll over, no longer able to fall asleep while lying down so is rocked to sleep, wakes/nurses 3 times a night; naps in hammock.
7-8 months: still co-sleeps 2nd part of night, wakes 2-3 times a night and after nursing tries to start playing with us, cries when we try to get her to sleep; naps in hammock w/ harness to keep her from turning over
9 months: night weaned, sleeps 100% in hammock since she can no longer sleep in crib because she stands up and cries as soon as she wakes up, wakes repeatedly throughout night, sometimes even screams, hard to get back to sleep. Resists daytime naps often to the point of intense screaming.

All along we've tried using soothing music/white noise, singling lullabies, wearing her to sleep, etc. all with relative success. But nothing will help her sleep through the night without waking/crying repeatedly. Weaning her at night did not help the night waking, just makes it harder to get her back to sleep. Daytime naps have also become extremely difficult.

BTW, we know she is teething because her first 2 teeth have appeared in the last week or two. But they don't seem to be causing her pain, since giving her Tylenol has NO effect on her crying and she is not drooling, chewing, etc. She is completely uninterested in frozen teething rings. So I don't want to blame this particularly difficult period on teething.

We seriously need help. I've been bawling all morning and DH and I are not even talking. I really hope someone here can offer some helpful advice on how to get ourselves out of this situation.

P.S. The worst part is that now DH is doubting attachment parenting, saying "look where it got us."


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## Voltige (Mar 11, 2006)

Hugs mama, try to calm down. I've been there too and it's no fun.

When my ds was 9 months old, I think nights were the WORST they have ever been. He had realized he could move, crawl, and he wanted to practice those skills every time he woke up at night. It was VERY challenging. I didn't find peace until I let go of the expectation that my child was *supposed* to sleep well at night. Accepting that nights were going to be hellish for a while made it much easier.

Having said that, why don't you try letting her nurse at night again? Seems to me that would be the quickest way to calm her down and help her sleep. Also, why not put her back in bed with you? I think both of those things might really make a difference. If your DH is bothered by her in bed, maybe you have a guest room he could use for a while? She might still wake up and want to play, etc. but at least your DH won't be telling you to let her CIO if he's snoozing in another room. Also, I found that repeating the phrase "it's nighttime, put your head down and go to sleep" really helped my ds go back to sleep when he would wake and want to play. He's nearly 14 months now, and yea, things are better. There IS hope.


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## alisoninparis (Nov 5, 2005)

Thanks, Voltige, if it were up to me I'd have her back in bed with me and nursing at night. But the problem is DH. He's really starting to think we never should have co-slept. He insists that DD be night weaned and doesn't want her sleeping in our room anymore. If I even suggest we go back to co-sleeping and night nursing, he'll get upset. After all, these past 2 weeks HE has been the one getting up with her at night and losing even more sleep than me, in the hopes that if she doesn't have the temptation to nurse thing will get better. If we give up and go back to co-sleeping, he'll be really angry that it was all for nothing.

Not to mention that even when DD was still co-sleeping and night nursing, as recently as 2 weeks ago, she wasn't sleeping very well either. Often she'd get charged after nursing and keep me awake. It was getting harder and harder to get enough rest.

And even if we DO go back to co-sleeping and night nursing, is there no end in sight? DH is getting depressed about not having the bed just for the 2 of us anymore. We have zero sex life. DD sleeps so lightly that we can never have sex, night or day (not that I have ANY libido anyway) without the risk she'll start crying.


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## LandonsMom (Jul 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alisoninparis* 
And even if we DO go back to co-sleeping and night nursing, is there no end in sight? DH is getting depressed about not having the bed just for the 2 of us anymore. We have zero sex life. DD sleeps so lightly that we can never have sex, night or day (not that I have ANY libido anyway) without the risk she'll start crying.

I could relate to that a few months ago, but the answer is YES, there is an end in sight, just maybe not as soon as you'd have liked.







I started feeling like you around nine months, but didnt get comfortable nightweaning until around 13 months, it didnt last, we went back to our old routine of nursing at nightwakings and tried again two more times before we found sucess. For us, just letting it go, and trying again later when he was older and more ready was ESSENTIAL!! Try to understand that she may not be where you want her to be in terms of sleeping, but that it will happen!! Perhaps if you plan special time for you and dh (we 'do it' in other locations of the house,....dh likes this...







: ) he wont be so opposed to possibly bringing her back to bed just for a few more months, until shes ready for it?? Thats the best I've got for you, hopefully someone else will have some bit of shining advice!! I know it can be stressful, but hang in there! I already look back fondly on that time in ds life, b/c i know that hes growing up SOOOO fast.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

Hi - I mean this very kindly but it really seems to me that the problem is with your relationship and not with your baby. 2-3 nightwakings per night is really not that bad (it's pretty typical). I feel myself that as long as I get 3 hours stretches things are VERY managable. I wonder if you would agree if you had emotional support?

Also try to imagine being 9 months old. Figuring out that you can move. Your little head running constantly...but trying to do that on your own with no nursing (having been nursed in the past. I'm sure exclusively bottle fed babies handle it OK).

I'm sorry things are rough for you right now. I hope some other parents on here can help.


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## Voltige (Mar 11, 2006)

If you want to co-sleep and nurse at night, you should. I'm not saying that your DH's input in not important, but this is such a short period in your child's life. YOU are the one with the nursing relationship. If what you are trying now is not working, try something different. It does not mean that time was "wasted" because something did not work. You both learned from the experience.

As I said, in my experience, 9 months was a very difficult time sleep wise. Ds was getting more and more active during the day, and my personal take on the night wakings was that he really needed the milk then, to make up for all that he had done during the day. You might try 50 different scenarios at night right now and STILL have a restless baby. Try to let go of expectations.

Maybe your DH is missing intimacy with you. Understandable. For what it's worth, DH and I *have* had sex in the bed with ds remaining sound asleep. Usually though, we put him to bed (or nap) and use the guest room. I've noticed that when DH gets grumpy or starts to hint about ds sleeping poorly, he really just needs some cuddling and affection. Not necessarily sex, just attention. I get so burned out sometimes that I forget the other man in my life also needs some of my love.

I am sure you both want what is best for your daughter. There is no easy or one "right" answer. You can still be a loving and attached parent if your child sleeps in a crib, if that is what works best for ALL of you. If it's not working though, don't be afraid to try something new, or to go back and try something you've already done- again. As I've said before, try to let go of expectations and go with the flow.


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## LandonsMom (Jul 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Voltige* 
... Try to let go of expectations....

This is EXACTLY what I was trying to say, with out manageing to say it!! And I totally agree about the husband/intamacy part.

Maybe you could try talking to dh when your not in the heat of the crisis. Maybe he'll reveal what he really "needs", perhaps you can meet both your dd and dh night time needs, with out sacrificeing the other.

Good luck, this too shall pass!!


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## WhaleinGaloshes (Oct 9, 2006)

I'm sorry things are so hard; having a little one can be very trying in general let alone one who is not sleeping.

I agree that your 9 month old's sleep doesn't sound that unusual for the age. My daughter went through a terrible period of night-waking around 8 months. It will get better, but that doesn't help you much now.

Things sound really tense with your husband (you even mentioned divorce) and that tension particularly with the kind of ultimatums you're describing is very stressful. I would like to gently suggest that you try to redirect your focus. I think it is very problematic to engage in the thought process that you describe as "look where [AP] has gotten us."

The fallacy is the assumption that if you had parented differently, your daughter would sleep differently. It is often reinforced by pointing to friend's or family's babies and saying "see, X sleeps and his parents did XX at night, if only we had done that our baby would also sleep." I have never, ever seen any evidence that this is true. Babies sleep differently; please don't beat yourself up thinking you caused this; you didn't.

I really think that you should do whatever will maximize sleep for you and baby. If that is co-sleeping (and it is for us and sounds like it will be for you) I say go for it. It *will not* go on forever; try to remember how little she is. They grow up very fast.


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## MaterBum (Aug 11, 2005)

I just had to reassure you that, yes, there will be an end in sight! BUT, nine months is really still so young! It is NOT uncommon for babes to wake to night nurse past a year.

I was sooo worried with dd1 that co-sleeping, nursing on demand, etc. was going to let everyone else say "See, I told you it was a bad idea." She definitely went through some horrible sleep phases. But rest assured that she is now the EASIEST child to put to sleep. She ASKS to go to bed when she's tired, no fighting, nothing. And she sleeps in her own bed. She started doing this around 2 1/2 (after a TERRIBLE spell of anti-sleep, lol!) and it's still continuing a year later. I am so proud that she has never known a terrified, lonely, cio night.

Also, don't make the mistake to think that letting your dd cio will be a magic bullet for sleep. I have a friend who believes thoroughly in cio and neither of her daughters (ages 4 1/2 and 2 1/2) is a good sleeper. AND they both scream and kick and fight her about going to bed. So, it definitely hasn't been a solution for them.

One more thing, try not to focus on the "sleeping through the night" thing. Really, most of us don't do that, not even as adults! What is actually considered sleeping through the night for a baby is only 4-5 hours of uninterrupted sleep (sleep where they may stir, wake lightly, but go back to sleep quickly). Have you looked at Pantley's book The No Cry Sleep Solution? Even if the techniques don't work for you, the sleep education in there is eye-opening and may be all you need to find your dd's "windows" and patterns of sleep to help get her back to sleep more quickly.

HUGS, I know it can be trying with your first and tempting to doubt your decisions. But I promise, it can and will be worth it in the long run if you stick with it!


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Is your husband giving your daughter a bottle when she wakes at night? She's probably still hungry when she wakes up. Ever wake up hungry? It's hard to go back to sleep and sleep restfully isn't it.

As a PP said, sleeping through the night for infants is only 5 hours straight at most. Any thing more than that is cake.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

It is typical for a nine month old to get 1/3 of his/her calories during the night, so it could be that your little one is just hungry.


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## vermontgirl (Aug 15, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *D_McG* 
Hi - I mean this very kindly but it really seems to me that the problem is with your relationship and not with your baby. 2-3 nightwakings per night is really not that bad (it's pretty typical). I feel myself that as long as I get 3 hours stretches things are VERY managable. I wonder if you would agree if you had emotional support?

Also try to imagine being 9 months old. Figuring out that you can move. Your little head running constantly...but trying to do that on your own with no nursing (having been nursed in the past. I'm sure exclusively bottle fed babies handle it OK).

I'm sorry things are rough for you right now. I hope some other parents on here can help.

Im in agreement here. This is a very typical situation that happens to most of us as parents. IMO you need to calm down and continue doing what you started out doing. Do you think that you are the only sleep deprived one? What did you think parenting was going to be like?
You and your husband have some things to work out here and I dont think that the poor child should have to suffer because of it.


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## RiverSky (Jun 26, 2005)

A 9 month old is going through so much change and growing. She is moving more than ever before and burning more calories, plus she needs to take in so many calories to grow her body, much more proportionately than an adult does. Despite how much a 9 month old is growing, her stomach is still very small and even if it is filled to the grim with breastmilk, after a short few hours, the milk will have been all digested and her stomach will tell her that she needs more. A 9 month old is not being "bratty" to want to eat at night, a 9 month old will NEED extra calories at night.

My son ate every two hours until he was 14 months of age, I was absolutely exhausted to the point of being dizzy, but I did not stop feeding him whenever he requested it. The trick was definitely to have him nurse while I was laying down. Most of the time, I would simply position my body so he could nurse and I'd fall back asleep. I woke up numerous times to find that he was nursing and I hadn't even helped him do it. That was really helpful as far as giving me more rest.

I think your husband is feeling extra sensitive right now because he hasn't had a good rest in two weeks. For this particularly rough period, could you and the baby possibly spend much of the night in another room, cosleeping, so your DH can get some rest and start to feel better? (or have your DH sleep in another room) I strongly believe that if you go back to night nursing, your baby will grow out of this stage in a couple of months, naturally and happily, not due to being forced and you can start to get more sleep.

I know that I myself have plenty of nights where I wake up and can't get back to sleep so I guess I just feel for your little baby. I am able to walk out of the room those times when I really can't go back to sleep and occupy myself but a 9 month old can't. For the baby, it's probably just a short lived stage though, tough to get through when you are an exhausted parent but just a stage. Are you napping during the day when your baby is sleeping? I know it's hard to do when you have things about the house that you want to do or get done but right now, it sounds like you need your rest much more than a spotless house.

As for sex, can you perhaps try to engage in places other than the bed at night, to try to assuage your DH's fears that you will never make love regularly ever again? My DH gets very emotional about that idea and honestly, I feel like he can't think straight when it happens to him, like if it is not fixed RIGHT THIS MINUTE, that he will explode and die. I swear, it's the oddest thing especially since he's always this sweet teddy bear who is so calm and rational, unless he gets that emotional fear going. I have found that early in the evening, while the children play safely in another room, is a good time for us to lock our bedroom door, have a quickie and then join the family again. Dh is satisfied, the urgent fears are gone, life goes on and it's not such a problem to cosleep again and we have our intimacy, though perhaps hurried, back.

Good luck. It sounds like you are going through a really tough time but just try to take heart in the idea that it will get better with time, things really will get better and your child will be much better off for having AP parents, even if they falter on method at times.


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## guestmama9916 (Jun 24, 2006)

We had our DS in a seperate room/bed around 3 months of age. Around 9 months of age, we brought him to our bed and starting co-sleeping and co-napping. Its a really tough age regardless of what you've been doing up to this point. I find it strange that your DH has so much to say about your night-time parenting. As long as my DH got to sleep without being disturbed, he didn't care what I did. There was a period of time that he even slept in our guest room each night. It didn't affect our relationship bc I would make a point to give him a little attention each night before I went to bed in the other room. I bet if you and your DH worked on making a little bit of time for each other a few nights a week (I'm only talking 10-15 mins here, if you can do more that's great), he'd change his tune. You can't control how your baby sleeps at night but you can give your relationship with DH a little extra attention to smooth things out until your DD is sleeping better. It will get better. For us it got better after the teething stopped after 1 yr molars.

Kim


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## Galatea (Jun 28, 2004)

9 months is a tough time for sleeping. Bring the baby back to bed and nurse her at night. She is probably hungry. If I wake up hungry I can't go back to sleep and I'm 28 years old! Dh might complain but if he sleeps better he will soon shut up. In a little while she will calm down. 9 months is always like this. Don't have expectations about what babies will or should do. Just go with the flow.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm not sure exactly what your expectations are, but they're not realistic. Un-nightwean her and bring her to your bed. Let her nurse and snuggle the night away and see if you don't all get more sleep.

-Angela


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## CrunchyCate (Jul 9, 2005)

Everyone is totally right on with their advice. This is my 4th, and I finally found peace with no sleep when like the pp said, I let go of expectations. (Sometimes I still have problems when my almost 3 y.o. dd is waking her baby sister, though!) I am lucky that both DH and XH had no problems with co-sleeping, but they would generally sleep on the couch part of the night to get themselves to sleep (they both like the tv on, too, which I can't take). DH comes to bed early in the morning, when he is more deeply sleeping.

Snuggle with your DH and spend time showing him some affection, if you can. Also, there are other quick ways to get his needs met that might relieve his stress if he has more needs for physical intimacy than you do.

This is a rough age, but it will pass. Also, I think DD2 was closer to 18+ months when I night weaned her, and that was because I was getting ready to ttc. IMO, 9 months is too young to do it, if your baby still wants to nurse. Mine is almost 8 months and some nights she sleeps 8 hours (my first to sleep that long!) and some nights she wants to nurse after 3 hours. I go with the flow.

Hang in there!!


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

Hi AlisoninParis-- I'm in Paris too! Left Bank here, where are you?

Just wondering, is your DH French? There are some cultural differences that could be making this harder for you if that's the case.

I don't have a whole lot of advice for you since my DS is not sleeping well these days and is only 6 months old, but here's my take on things:

-- Waking to nurse 2-3 times a night seems pretty normal to me (actually, it sounds like heaven, DS has been waking up 1/hr these last few weeks)

-- At 8-9 months there's a big developmental leap where babies want to practice new skills all the time, it WILL pass

-- Make a very consistant night routine and a very consistant nap routine to ease into sleep time

-- Make sure you're getting enough iron, apparently low iron can cause sleeplessness

-- Babies are super, super sensitive and pick up on tension and anger around them. Possibly your babe is also feeling your and your DH's stress and it's creating a vicious circle

I would go back to nursing at night, and cosleeping. Of course you'll have to work that out with your DH in a way that doesn't mean divorce... But it sounds like you both need to calm down and 'dedramatiser la situation'-- hard from the depths of sleeplessness.

PM me if you want! Good luck to you.


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## primjillie (May 4, 2004)

Is she eating solids? Maybe she is just hungry (and not just for nursing). It sounds like the co-sleeping isn't working if she won't sleep with you in the bed, so maybe just keep trying the crib. My kids got tired of standing up after a while. I think when they learn standing, they do it for bit before it becomes old and then they start sleeping again. Can she get herself her down from the standing position? If not, teach her how to get back down. Maybe you and your dh can take turns so the other can sleep? Sleep deprivation is one of the worst things to bear, so I understand both of your frustrations.


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## Voltige (Mar 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marylizah* 
Hi AlisoninParis-- I'm in Paris too! Left Bank here, where are you?

Just wondering, is your DH French? There are some cultural differences that could be making this harder for you if that's the case.

Interesting comment. My DH is French! I'm very fortunate that he's been almost 100% supportive of all my AP decisions. His family, however, is a different story. They are more critical of lots of things than my family (American).

Not to hijack this thread. Not my intent, but I had not even considered cultural issues.


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## ktmama (Jan 21, 2004)

Hugs, mama. This sounds really hard.

Here's another idea. Around 10 months, my dd2 was waking at 12:30 (after a 7:30 bedtime), 2:00 and 5:00 to eat. It was really impacting me only having about 2 hour chunks of sleeping time. I experimented and found that if I nursed her on both sides before I went to bed at 10:30 or 11:00, she would sleep through until 5:00. I think she was waking at 2 to eat because at 12:30 I was only feeding her on one side because I was so tired. Does that make sense? She typically sleeps through that 11:00 feeding and is good for the night. Then I get SIX glorious hours of sleep!

As for dh, we have a very loud humidifier in our room next to the baby's bed that allows us to be intimate without waking her. This "white noise" is also essential for helping her get to sleep and not be bothered by the dishes being done downstairs, the drying being run, and us coming into the room at night. I also found that sleeping on a lambskin rug has helped her be more comfy and decrease her moving around at night. Other things that might help are homeopathics and essential oils. You can use oils such as lavendar in her bath at night and/or on her crib sheets or lovey if she has one.

I notice you are in Paris. Is your dh French? Are there some cultural issues that need to be addressed in terms of your differing expectations? I have found with my Swiss (almost French







) dh that educating him with the science has helped put to rest some of his "old school" attitudes about child development and behavior that he says are very European. Also, I don't know about your dh, but mine just likes to complain alot.









I think above all, follow your instincts. You might just need to negotiate things with your dh days/weeks/months at a time. For example, you might just say, "Let's try co-sleeping again for a month and see if things improve. If they don't, we'll try something else equally as gentle". You don't have to commit to anything. You are a detective trying to discover gentle ways to increase the time your baby sleeps at night. Good luck and please let us know how it's going!


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## mommymarliah (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
I'm not sure exactly what your expectations are, but they're not realistic. Un-nightwean her and bring her to your bed. Let her nurse and snuggle the night away and see if you don't all get more sleep.

-Angela

I agree 100% my 2.5 year old still wakes up 2 times a night on average to nurse. A nine month old still NEEDS that.

I don't know for sure, but from experience and what I have seen with others typically the man is upset not just about sleep but an intrusion into his bed. Because the bed is so often used for intimacy and sex. If you can bring the sex out of the bedroom you may see a big difference. That was a huge issue for us. Once we just started doing it anywhere and whever we wanted the bed issues were no longer a problem







so some of it may just be that he feels neglected/repaced too.


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## IansMommy (Jun 14, 2005)

Hugs to you. I promise...it WILL pass, just when it seems to be at its worst. My ds is 18 months. We only just nightweaned him. However, I do remember the 9 month sleepless nights. If it's any consolation, our sex life didn't really begin again until he was around 15 months. It was hard for both of us, but he will not be a baby forever, and at some point we re-evaluated our expectations. We could still (dh and I) snuggle on the couch (with ds in arms) or hold each other at night (with ds next to us).
If your baby is crying at night, nurse her...she is not ready for nightweaning yet. My ds was only just ready this month. He still wakes at night, but a snuggle puts him back to sleep. Trust your gut. Talk to dh...it really sounds like a marriage issue.


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

9 months SUCKS, plain and simple.

And I'm not sure these are related, but we hadn't even HAD sex by the time DS was 9 months old...neither one of us had ANY interest. So the idea of not getting *enough* by that age, just makes me giggle.

I don't know how to convince your husband that AP didn't "cause" this. And not that there's even anything to be blamed on! It sounds like your kiddo is just a variation of a normal 9 month old, to me.

A 9 month old is waking up HUNGRY. Please go back to feeding her when she is hungry. Have you ever been on a big-time "diet"? (as opposed to a balanced way like WW) And really really done it "right"? Were you hungry at night? It makes you CRANKY! That's why hard-core diets are hard, b/c there's a nasty mood going on, even if you are successful in losing weight. That sort of diet affects your nights and days, but at least with an adult you can be somewhat happy b/c perhaps you're losing weight. But a baby who is being denied food is not going to get that feeling (nor should they), they will just be cranky!

I was just reading something that said, basically, do not even THINK about divorce in the first year. No big decisions like that should be made (unless I suppose you're married to Kevin Federline, but I digress) in that first year. You are too tired, too crazy, it's just all too much, to make that sort of HUGE decision. So you both need to agree to stop that thought process! After all, divorce would only make things WORSE, for both of you, and especially for your kiddo.









What has worked well with me and DH is trading off. And going with DS's signals. Sometimes he obviously doesn't really want me, and within a few minutes of being walked by DH, he's passed out. Sometimes we try that, thinking "it worked the last ten times", and it's a disaster. We've both had to be VERY flexible and willing to help DS.

So you say you get DD to sleep, put her in bed, then get in? Two thoughts. Just get into bed at the same time. OR...wait a little bit before getting in to bed. If I had ever tried just putting DS down, while I was standing, I would have had a revolution on my hands. I would slowly put him down, while lying down as well, and slowly slowly slowly get up, if I wasn't going to sleep right at the same time. If I were going to sleep right then, it was easy. But if I still had to brush my teeth, or I wasn't tired, or whatever, I'd get up sloooooowly, then later on, get into bed. But I couldn'lt have put him down and THEN get into bed, that just wouldn't have worked for him.

And lest you think you're doomed...we did all this at 9 months, just really followed his queus...and I'm not saying he's perfect at 2.5, but nowadays he is known to fall asleep with Papa, he has been known to tell us when he is tired, to head upstairs if we're not paying attention...last night when I got into bed he SEEMED to be stirring, but when I had to move him off of my pillow, I picked him up, moved him over, he moved a bit, and then just fell back to sleep.

Being difficult to get and keep asleep at 9 months doesn't mean a lifetime of horrible sleeping...and being AP at 9 months doesn't "cause" problems later on...

I hope your hubby can see the light soon.


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## alisoninparis (Nov 5, 2005)

Wow, mamas, I am just amazed at the outpouring of support and advice! Thanks to each and every one of you. I've read all the posts and taken everything to heart. I just cut and pasted a bunch of your comments to show to DH (he wouldn't have the patience to read the whole thread!) We've been having a lot of "discussions" today and we both expressed a lot of angry feelings we've been having and things feel... lighter somehow. We got a lot of things off our chests. My comment about divorce was somewhat tongue in cheek-we've been together 10 years and married for 7 so splitting up is not an option at this stage. We are just both sleep deprived, frustrated, and confused.

Yes, BTW, to those who asked: DH is French. I find that the French tend to be quite old-fashioned and closed minded when it comes to AP, co-sleeping, etc. but luckily DH is open minded. He was really happy with co-sleeping and enjoyed it very much, even though he is now doubting it. I had told him how I read that AP and especially co-sleeping work to instill confidence in the child and help her grow more secure and independent. He really expected that to translate into her sleeping alone through the night at 9 months!

I'll report back tomorrow morning after a night of (interrupted) sleep about how DH reacted to the comments I'm about to show him. I really hope I can convince him to let DD back in our bed for the time being. (He is, BTW, on the couch right now with DD who woke up at 10 p.m. and was standing and crying in her crib. She's passed out on his chest and he's falling asleep too. So much for that movie we were going to watch!)


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

Go take some pictures of the two of them, baby-sleeping-on-papa pictures are cute, even though "co-sleeping" on couches isn't really the safest thing ever...







(not sure now is a good time to mention that to him, though)

Ah, cultural differences...I'm lucky in that DH's mother-culture (literally, b/c it's his mom) is Korean, and Koreans celebrate family bedrooms and all that.







I've only run into problems with her b/c she was made to adapt to her husband's expectations (run of the mill American). Of course, now her husband is seeing how we parent DS, and he's starting to regret all the decisions he forced on my MIL (he was a sailor, and he actually went back to sea shortly after my hubby's birth, with the ultimatum that he be out of the "marriage bed" when he got home, "or else").

So see? Your hubby doesn't want to end up 80 and regretting things he did when DD was wee.







He's got to come around so he can celebrate those things, LOL.

OK, go take those cutie pictures.


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## GiggleBirds (Oct 24, 2006)

I'm glad you two were able to discuss some things and he is open.

I just wanted to say that I agree, 9 months is very hard, and a big transition. And also, I agree that your dd is probably very sensitive to the tension between you and your dh, which could be a vicious cycle.

Please find a way to co-sleep with her! It will make a huge difference if she can sleep beside you and nurse when she needs to. I'm tired, as my 11 month old wakes up 2-6 times a night, but I can't imagine _getting up_ and dealing with a hysterical baby! That must be so hard... on both of you!

AP is about patience... and it certainly doesn't end at 9 months, and the "results" won't be seen for years yet!







But they will.

Take care..


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## lilliansmom (Nov 2, 2006)

Like another pp said I would defiantly try to bf right before you go to bed. I use to bf my DD at 1030p or 11 and that helped her stretch out the night. I do think a 9 month old has nutritional needs at night (my babe stop night nursing around 6 months but she never woke up and if she did the bf-ing put her back to sleep). I would tell your DH that even "main stream" peds will tell you that night nursing at 9 months is about nutritional needs.

As for the DH sometimes I think I have two babes!







I strongly feel that co-sleeping has to be something that both parents want. The first year I think most DH have to adjust to not having there DW at there beck and call. If you can I would suggest a night out for the two of you to reconnect. IMO it is very important to keep in touch with our partners. I think happy home is very important for our DC.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

It sounds like your DH is torturing himself with his own expectations! Parenting is great in the sense that it forces us to let go of our need for total control. A child is a person, not a project -- and you eventually learn how much you have to just let go, and focus on the moment.

I agree with the pp who cautioned against viewing CIO as a fool proof solution. Do not make the mistake of thinking that this is going to be your last ditch effort. You only tend to hear the CIO "success" stories, but there are just as many (if not more) utter failures. The people I know who did CIO had chidren who simply learned to sob themselves to sleep every night, and continued to do that for a year of more.

What it boils down too is that parenting is a 24 hour job, and that kids have nighttime needs until they are grown and gone. Sometimes, its impossible to find a sense of peace until we let go a little bit, and change our expectations.


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## lilliansmom (Nov 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
Parenting is great in the sense that it forces us to let go of our need for total control. A child is a person, not a project -- and you eventually learn how much you have to just let go, and focus on the moment.

Spoken like a very wise mama.


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## summerbabe (Nov 12, 2006)

Glad things are looking up between you and your husband. Just wanted to add something that might be helpful info for him... in my research for a class, I ran across a study that compared cosleepers with solitary sleepers. The researchers rejected at the outset the notion that "independence" is a monolithic concept, and pointed out how everyone just assumes that a child who is independent with sleep is also independent in other areas. So, they compared preschoolers who had either co-slept or solitary slept since infancy. They did find that the solitary sleepers fell asleep and stayed (or returned) to sleep on their own at a much younger age. However, the cosleepers were more independent with things like dressing themselves at a younger age, and showed more social independence.

Also, I recently read something interesting about CIO--how do those parents KNOW the baby is "sleeping through the night?" Maybe the poor thing is staring at the ceiling, thinking "I'm hungry or scared or lonely, but when it's dark mommy won't come if I cry." Maybe the PARENTS are sleeping through the night, but that baby's not!


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## fireshifter (Sep 2, 2005)

This is so hard. I just posted about this a while back. Here's a link to my post about my 9mth old DS:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=538358

I'm happy to say that things are better and I've mastered a new way to nurse while sleeping.

Hope at least something helps.

Jen


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## flyingspaghettimama (Dec 18, 2001)

I think that there's another cultural difference that I had explained to me by a French mother, that in traditional french society, the adult bedroom is supposed to be a "private" space off-limits to other people, including children, and the couple's intimacies (not just physical) with each other is of a very high priority. It may not be as much the resentment of the child as the desire for alone/special time with the partner, if you know what I mean.

Is there any home space (







if you live in Paris) that you could recreate as a private space? Even a nook that you could decorate or set up candles in? Are you getting time together alone as a couple, whether after the baby goes to bed or if family comes over to babysit?

I have found that the more one tries to push independence upon an unready baby/child, the more clingy and desperately manipulative they become, which is not good for anyone. So perhaps, I would try cosleeping and nursing at night again (which will give your tired husband more sleep), but also try to make extra efforts (i.e. cards, special dinner, etc) for your husband? Or vice versa. I've also noticed that babies go through horrible times, and then it will pass before you know it, and be their happy, nursing-to-sleep, never-waking selves again. Good luck!


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## IansMommy (Jun 14, 2005)

You know, when I posted before, I didn't mention that several months ago (when my ds was about 9 or 10 months old, our marriage was pretty fragile. We were both sleep deprived and exhausted. Dh would come home and take his "shift" as "other parent." We were overwhelmed...we weren't bonding as a couple, and we weren't nurturing our individual selves.
Here is what we did...(I don't know if this is possible for you)--and this schedule/plan did not improve our ds' light sleeping, not sleeping, or constant nursing all night. It simply gave us each personal time, and then together time--away from our children for short periods of time (so as not to interfere with nursing...

Monday night--dh home from work, family evening
Tuesday night--dh home form work, family evening
Wednesday night--my night--in or out of the house, for about 2-3 hours
Thursday night--dh's night...usually out of the house, with friends/colleagues
Friday night--Our night. My mom watches our kids. We go out for 2 hours

Like I said, it doesn't "fix" everything. However, we realized that we were mad at each other all of the time because we didnt' have together time and personal time. The schedule has worked for us.
I really hope that all works out.
The first year or two of motherhood is so wonderful, but so draining.


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## cutic (May 19, 2005)

Sorry, I haven't had time to read all responses but if your dh doesn't want to cosleep, you might want to sleep with your dd in another room. THat way, you still sleep with her and nurse her at night when she needs it and your dh has an empty bed for himself and nobody to disturb his sleep at night







. You can also join him after your dd fell asleep for a quick one.


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## aisraeltax (Jul 2, 2005)

sounds like she is hungry. and for a 9 month old who nurses, being hungry means wanting to nurse. i dont think any babies just decide they are tired of standing in a crib and lay back down and go to sleep. that is not a natural 9 month of bahavior.

i ditto what others have said here. dh sounds like he needs attention and love. and it sounds like dd needs to be with mama at night. take it from me, there will be a time way too soon that they believe they dont need you. for now, she does. you are her world and you are all she has to comfort her. she is depending on you to understand her cues during this age of utter helplessness for her.

good luck and i hope you all start to get more sleep soon.


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## rdl2k5 (Mar 31, 2005)

Father of a 2 yo and 7 mo old twins. Our twins start the night and sleep most of the night in cribs. Our 2yo sleeps in her own bed. Mom is in charge of babies, I'm in charge of the 2yo. (at night) The 2yo wakes up most nights and I go in and sleep in the full size bed with her. I'm not big on "the family bed" at all. But babies do get hungry/thirsty (even at night)

Our 2y/o nursed marathon sessions at night, during the day, and I'm sure it would have been easy to say "She's going to be spoiled or never want to be put down etc"

She weaned around 15 mo when my wife was pregnant with the twins and she's adjusted and as happy as can be. She wants to play! to run! to read! etc etc. Babies need to be fed plain and simple.

With 3 waking kids we've had to make some changes all around. 2/3 babies just can't stay in our bed at night. That said, our twins wake up once or twice a night. (sometimes more, sometimes less) They are fed when they want it, they sleep in their cribs for most of the night.

If you keep the twins in the adult bed they lay their awake for hours. They have always slept better in their cribs. But they also get fed right when they need it.

Expectations are way too high I'd agree. With our twins, I have no expectations.

If your husband is going in there and if you're only going to change one thing in all of this, he needs to allow her to drink something. I personally don't go 8-12 hours without food or drink. Babies metabolism is very high.


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## mommacanary (Aug 26, 2006)

This may not be it but my friends baby did this same thing. She finally figured out her baby was getting sick from some of the products she used. She changed her baby lotion to unscented. Changed her laundry detergent to unscented more natural product. She stoped using air freshner.They were spraying her apartment for bugs every month. She got them to stop doing that. Her baby was sleeping better in about a week after the changes. She said she slept better too. Many chemicals in everyday products we use cause trouble with sleep. Hope you get some relief soon.


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## earthie_mama (Mar 27, 2006)

http://armsreach.com/article.php?ID=3

good, intelligent article, maybe your DH could suffer through it?

theres quite a few on this site!

here's another: http://armsreach.com/article.php?ID=12


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Brie -- that was the exact article that convinced my DH! I think it helps that it was written from a dad's perspective. And it *is* ultimately sensible!


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## mom2PJS (May 25, 2006)

My 9 month old is also doing this. It has helped enormously to change my expectations. It's still very hard and we have rough nights, every night. I start to get anxious in the evening dreading the night to come. I've found DH pretty open when we just talk openly and I tell him things aren't working. Recently we were insisting that she wait at least 3 hours between feedings at night DH would hold and rock her until it had been 3 hours (while she screamed). Then I looked at it and I was clock watching and we were all sleepless and angry. She wasn't ready. My husband said it would be a "step backward" if I "caved" and I said "seriously.... a step backward from what....?" So now I nurse her as she needs and we'll try to extend our lengths of time later. She changes daily. Try to find some positive way through this that works for all 3 of you. It may just be a "step back." All babies are different. Some are really cranky sleepers, I'm beginning to think most 9 month olds are. I'm also going to start answering the stupid sleeping through the night question with "well yes of course, don't they all?"


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## maryeb (Aug 8, 2005)

Really wanted to use this symbol. Nurse your baby when she wakes. At 9 months, she is most definitely hungry. Around that time, my ds increased his nightwaking and wanted to play a lot. We left soft books and a soft toy for him to play with, which helped. Sometimes my husband played with him quietly in our living room. It definitely passed, although ds still nurses a few times a night and a ton when he is teething, which he is now. Ouch. It will pass. About your dh and intimacy...you could always "take mercy" (as my dh would say) on him and help him out in a less physically active way, ykwim? We didn't get back into the swing of things until around 9 months, and it was slow going at first.

I know it sucks right now. Really. And the first year has been soo challenging for us too, as I'm sure it has for many many others. When we're in the midst of a life situation sometimes it's hard to see it will change, but things always change. I agree with lowering your expectations and go with the flow. That should help. HTH Mary


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## alisoninparis (Nov 5, 2005)

Thanks again to all those who have chimed in. Your words of advice are really helpful to me.

I'm sorry that I was MIA for 2 days. Here's what happened: DH and I had a long talk Monday night after I showed him the replies on this thread. He finally relented and accepted to let DD back in our bed. I nursed her at midnight and she slept until 4:30 a.m. when she awoke screaming and wouldn't calm down until DH took her on his side of the bed since I didn't want to nurse her after only 4 hours. She fell back asleep and awoke as usual at 7:30 a.m. But yesterday I was a mess all day-dizzy, weak, exhausted. I had to call DH home from work to take care of DD because I just couldn't handle anything. Maybe I'm having some kind of breakdown. Last night I went to bed at 9:30 with DD, at which time I nursed her. She slept more or less straight through until 5:30 when I nursed her again, and then woke up for good at 7 a.m. Today I'm feeling a little better than yerterday but still nowhere near 100%.

But the important thing is that last night was a real improvement, and DD went from 9:30 to 5:30 without even trying to nurse. I hope we can keep on moving in this direction. And I hope I will feel better soon because as I'm finding out it's really difficult to take care of a baby when you are feeling sick!


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Oh dear! Maybe you are actually sick. Have you checked your temp? Do you have any sign of infection or blockage in your milk ducts?

I'd have been thrilled if my babies had slept 4 hours in a row at 9 months. I can easily imagine that she was really truly hungry/thirsty at that 4 hour mark. Have you tried keeping water in a bottle or sippy cup near the bed, and offering a drink when you don't want to nurse? It might be enough.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Please don't refuse to nurse her when she wakes up wanting to nurse. She's still a baby and 4 hours is a LONG time. At that age babies still NEED to nurse at will.

-Angela


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Please don't refuse to nurse her when she wakes up wanting to nurse. She's still a baby and 4 hours is a LONG time. At that age babies still NEED to nurse at will.









:


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## Pynki (Aug 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Please don't refuse to nurse her when she wakes up wanting to nurse. She's still a baby and 4 hours is a LONG time. At that age babies still NEED to nurse at will.

-Angela

As infrequently as it happens, I totally agree.


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## rebelbets (Jun 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Please don't refuse to nurse her when she wakes up wanting to nurse. She's still a baby and 4 hours is a LONG time. At that age babies still NEED to nurse at will.

I don't know. I mean, baby went back to sleep after being comforted by daddy, and then slept another three and a half hours. If she were truly hungry, I can't imagine she would have gone back to sleep for as long as she did.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebelbets* 
I don't know. I mean, baby went back to sleep after being comforted by daddy, and then slept another three and a half hours. If she were truly hungry, I can't imagine she would have gone back to sleep for as long as she did.

I strongly disagee. CIO can "teach" babies to sleep through the night too. Obviously babies can be conditioned to sleep even though hungry.

-Angela


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rebelbets* 
I don't know. I mean, baby went back to sleep after being comforted by daddy, and then slept another three and a half hours. If she were truly hungry, I can't imagine she would have gone back to sleep for as long as she did.

Of course, even a hungry baby will eventually fall back to sleep if they are tired enough. I thought baby was probably hungry because she was distressed when not allowed to nurse. And, it is pretty normal for a 9mo to need to nurse at least every 4 hours, so I would take that into account too.


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## kaspirant (Apr 28, 2006)

I co-sleep with my 12 month old DS. I can't imagine nightweaning him even now. He nurses nearly all night and it works fine. We sleep side lying and 1/2 the time I sleep through him waking/nursing/ and going back to sleep. I only read the first and last pages but imo keep cosleeping and nurse on demand would be what I would suggest. DS eats WAY more at night now because he is soooo active during the day. Sometimes he nurses for comfort and quite frankly I would rather he come to me for comfort now *and later in a different form* than trying to figure life out on his own. He's my son. I want to give him EVERYTHING I can and teach him how to be strong and independent...but 9 months...12 months...not quite the time for that. It will come and it will break my heart a little when he doesn't need mama as he does now...but his self learned independence will be born from a comfortable and open relationship with him now.


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## D_McG (Jun 12, 2006)

'only' 4 hours? I really think you need to think more about this. Your expectations are very unreasonable and it's not fair to your LO. Nursing is about more than food. Maybe she wasn't starving after 4 hours (maybe she was! How do you know how miuch she consumed at midnight?).. but what if she was thirsty? Lonely? had a bad dream?







:


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Alison -- I'm worried about you! Racking my brain trying to figure out why you felt so awful after nursing extra at night. You shouldn't have to feel that way! Do you sleep with a water bottle near your bed, and do you drink through the night? Is it possible you were dehydrated? Any sign of breast infection? Do you take it easy frequently during the day? Nursing can be as tiring as pregnancy, and you reall have to be taking care of yourself too.


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## AugustineM (Mar 21, 2005)

OMG, at 9 months my DS was nursing every 2 hours. Sometimes he'd sleep longer but generally it was every 2 hours. I think your DD wanting to nurse after 4 hours is very, very normal! She's only 9 months old. I know it seems like she's "getting older" now and "should be sleeping longer" but really, just wait until she's 18 months and you'll look back at 9 months and think how small she was. Her brain and body are going through HUGE changes right now. She needs that breastmilk!!









Oh, and I second the sleeping with a water bottle by your bed. Keep yourself hydrated!


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## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
Please don't refuse to nurse her when she wakes up wanting to nurse. She's still a baby and 4 hours is a LONG time. At that age babies still NEED to nurse at will.

-Angela

I agree with this. I know it's tough, mama. It will get better!


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## alisoninparis (Nov 5, 2005)

To those who were concerned: I don't think my not feeling well is related to the fact that we've gone back to co-sleeping and night nursing. DD only nurses about once during the night so it's not a big change.

DD has a cold and last night I was really glad to have her in bed with us because when she awoke at 1 a.m. because her nose was plugged and she couldn't sleep because of it, I noticed right away that she felt warm. Took her temp and she had a slight fever (the first ever fever in her life!). Gave her some Tylenol, sucked the snot out of her nose, and nursed her back to sleep. She slept until about 5 when she wanted to nurse again. I did so without hesitation. So as much as DH still sees it as a step backward, I'm sure this is the right thing to do at this stage.

Now if only I can find a way not to feel frustrated and annoyed when my mom and MIL keep telling me babies her age don't need to eat at night and should sleep through the night, etc. etc. Even our ped says the same thing, as well as all our friends who have babies. I have to ask myself: why is DD the only baby we know who wakes/eats at night at 9 months?


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## jee'smom (Mar 17, 2004)

hon, she's not the only baby that nurses at night! I have a 2 yo who still nurses during the night. I roll over and nurse him, he goes back to sleep.. no problem! My ped., mom, and mil know better then to say anything to me. It's my decision and doesn't bother me, so who are they to say something? If you look at raising your baby the way "nature intended", none of this would be an issue. Babies NEED to sleep with parents and NEED to nurse for 3-7 yrs. It's not popular in our culture, but that doesn't change human anatomy and physiology, nor what's best for them. (or I shouldn't even say "what's _best_ for them" I should say "what's _normal_ for them", as human babies.) Furthermore, your parents come from a bottle-feeding culture, most likely, in which babies slept through the night b/c they had about a pound of semi-digestible formula in their little bellies all night. Breastmilk is so easily digestible that it doesn't last very long. Also, humans need almost a constant supply of glucose for proper brain functioning, hence the 24/7 nursing pattern of a human baby. Also, it's the amount of nighttime nursing that builds prolactin levels (keeping a good supply up and keeping ovulation at bay- people who night wean too early, get their periods/fertility back sooner. If you look at indigenous cultures, who parent the way "nature intended", their children are almost always space 2-3 years apart.) One more thing, I could see someone saying that my 2 yo. doens't NEED to nurse at night, but NEVER would I expect someone saying a mere 9 month old is too old to nurse at night. In this culture, it's like everyone is trying to rush the babies to grow up, yet when they're teenagers, they treat them like babies, not having them take responsibility for their actions. I don't get it. (Can you tell this is one of my biggest pet peeves?







)
*ckw*: Can you PLEASE tell me where I may read that research on the independence/cosleeping thing? Thank you!


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Kere's post is good infowise, so I won't repeat stuff. Just want to say that the biggest difference I have noticed is that most people give formula by 9 months, and push solids. I think that was the biggest difference between my baby's sleeping habits and the habits of my friend's babies. I have to say though, that the mother's I know who exclusively breast fed, had babies who slept like mine! There are often a different set of priorities at play, kwim?

Also -- when people do CIO to sleep train their babies, the babies are still waking at night when they feel hungry or lonely. They just don't bother calling anyone to tell them about it because they've learned that it doesn't help.


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## coloradoalice (Oct 12, 2005)

I completely agree with Angela and others about feeding her when she wakes. Why not?? If it settles her and helps her back to sleep quickly why would you not do it? It seems like you don't want to because of the pressure you are getting from the outside. I think you should seriously reconsider that and try to see things from your daughters perspective.

Also, your baby is so not the only baby that wakes to eat at night. My son does and he's 10 1/2 months old. My daughter did until about 18 months. All of my friends night nursed until at least a year, many for much longer. It's only uncommon amoung people that bottlefeed and cry it out. Mommies that are intune with their children and meeting their needs are usually night nursing for much longer than a year. It's just the way life cycles. It's a couple short years of your life. It will pass.

A suggestion....go to bed when the baby does, at least a couple nights a week. Most babies get their longest and best streaches of sleep at the beginning of the night. If you go down with her once or twice a week it will help you catch up. I know, because it's the only way I am surviving!!


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## summerbabe (Nov 12, 2006)

Someone asked for this--since I could not attach it I copied and pasted the whole thing--see below. I hope that is not against any rules on this forum. Another interesting thing about this study is the researchers found two distinct subgroups of co-sleepers: those who began in early infancy, and those who began after one or two years of age. The former, termed "early co-sleepers," made the decision to co-sleep based on a preference for this as a parenting practice and a belief that it benefits children and parents. The latter, termed "reactive co-sleepers," viewed co-sleeping less favorably, and began the practice as a way to cope with existing sleep problems. The "reactive" co-sleepers reported far more sleep problems than the early co-sleepers. While the two groups were similar in the number of their children's night wakenings, the reactive co-sleepers were much more likely to view it as a problem. This is an important distinction and points to a potential flaw in other research on co-sleeping. If all families who co-sleep are grouped together, statistics on sleep problems may be skewed by the reactive co-sleepers, whose children may have had sleep problems (or perceived sleep problems) before co-sleeping began. So the results of that kind of research may not be applicable to parents who choose to co-sleep based on beliefs about its benefits, rather than as an undesired, desperate measure to deal with sleep "problems."

Also, *Alisoninparis,* , my friend's 2 1/2 year old does not sleep through the night. He was/is bottlefed (still gets bedtime bottle) and she does not co-sleep.

Edit: I had to remove the article because pasting it here was a copyright violation per the moderator. Here's the citation:

Keller, M. A. & Goldberg, W. A. (2004). Co-sleeping: Help or hindrance for young children's independence? Infant and Child Development, 13, 369-388.

jee's mom: If you want me to email you the pdf article, PM me with your email address.


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## Momtwice (Nov 21, 2001)

1. 9 months old was hell.

2. have you looked into food allergies to things the baby is eating, or things in your milk, such as dairy, wheat etc.? That can definitely increase nightwaking.

3. 9 months was hell.


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## MPJJJ (Oct 24, 2003)

Things will get better. 9 months is really young to expect her to sleep through the night! If it helps, my 3 year old often wakes up to nurse, but immediately falls back asleep, and I barely notice. It gets better, she's just got a lot of things going on with her right now.


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## jee'smom (Mar 17, 2004)

Also, you're not the only one getting pressure from your dh. It's common for them to all of a sudden question our technique, esp. when in-laws or friends tell them things. My dh (although formally committed to AP) has recently been blaming kids behavior on me and my attachment style of parenting. He's sees his friend kids sleeping in their OWN room for the WHOLE night (therefore the friend's getting ALOT of sex from his wife)- they CIO. I would NEVER abandon my child in a dark room for the sake of having sex. we can go other places to have sex, or I could put kids down in their own beds for beginning of night, have sex, andthen let them back in... It's hard when your dh starts bullying you into doing something or questioning yourself.


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## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alisoninparis* 
Now if only I can find a way not to feel frustrated and annoyed when my mom and MIL keep telling me babies her age don't need to eat at night and should sleep through the night, etc. etc. Even our ped says the same thing, as well as all our friends who have babies. I have to ask myself: why is DD the only baby we know who wakes/eats at night at 9 months?

They are WRONG. Meet your baby's needs. Why is she the only baby you know who wakes and eats at 9 months?-because she hasn't been forced to ignore (or not express) her needs through CIO'ing by her parents.

Also, as much as our society likes to compare our (or our babies') "accomplishments" as evidenced by 'soothing oneself to sleep', not waking to nurse at night, sleeping through the night...not all babies are the same. Your daughter's needs may be different than the needs of the the babies you compare her to.

This is an area where I would not give in. If your DH thinks that he will get more sex by pushing you to CIO and nightwean, I'd like to be a fly on the wall during his advances when you are feeling even more stressed out, pressured and worried. I am glad he conceded to family bed and nighttime nursing again. You're in a tough place. It will be better.


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## crunchy_mama (Oct 11, 2004)

I wanted to give hugs and encouragement! It is so hard! My "baby" is 2 and still sometimes wakes up asking for bites, even when it seems he had more than plenty of calories during the day (he gives my huge 6 foot 3 dad a run for it at mealtime).


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Proudly AP* 
They are WRONG. Meet your baby's needs. Why is she the only baby you know who wakes and eats at 9 months?-because she hasn't been forced to ignore (or not express) her needs through CIO'ing by her parents.

Also, as much as our society likes to compare our (or our babies') "accomplishments" as evidenced by 'soothing oneself to sleep', not waking to nurse at night, sleeping through the night...not all babies are the same. Your daughter's needs may be different than the needs of the the babies you compare her to.

This is an area where I would not give in. If your DH thinks that he will get more sex by pushing you to CIO and nightwean, I'd like to be a fly on the wall during his advances when you are feeling even more stressed out, pressured and worried. I am glad he conceded to family bed and nighttime nursing again. You're in a tough place. It will be better.


I am not upset by your post, but wanted to kindly point out a few things.

My children did NOT CIO, and the first 2 slept between 6-8 hrs at a stretch by 2 mos. My last one held out until 3 mos. They all slept in our bedroom in a bassinet right beside the bed. (I was afraid to co-sleep) Also, my 2 oldest were exclusively BF, yet were not attached to me all night long. They put themselves on a "schedule", not me. My third I had to FF due to medical problems on my part (long story, not going there right now), but he was pretty independent too. He will still wake in the middle of the night, at almost 2, but I cuddle him, give him a drink and then he is ready to go back to his bed.

Kids are all different. It cannot always be blamed on the parents.


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## IncaMama (Jun 23, 2004)

hang in there...your little one is still figuring things out, as are you. give yourself time. she's only been on this earth for a measly 9 months, she's still sooo new. as i'm fond of saying, i have underwear older than my kids...it's sometimes hard to remember that they're still so new to this world. they feel like they've been here forever. 9 months of a child's life can feel like an eternity (especially if spent sleep deprived and bleary eyed!!).

it will get better. it *will* get better. i swear it. it *will* get better. maybe not as soon as we'd all like, but there *will* come a time when you can barely remember how much it sucked.
*HUG*


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

The parents of the other babies who aren't sleeping all night are 'suffering' in silence because they probably know that IRL they will get the same reaction that you are getting from yout ILs.

This is my fourth baby and I can tell you that I will keep talking about babies' need to feed for whatever reason when others imply that either I am failing as a parent or that my baby is not *good* because she wakes at night.


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## fremontmama (Jun 11, 2004)

Alisoninparis sorry things have been so hard with nights for your family lately. It will get better, most definitely! And you already have had tons and tons of great advice from other mamas here, so i just wanted to say that you are absolutely not alone in having a babe that needs to nurse at night.

At that age our dd was probably nursing at least 3 or 4 times a night. I found for me it was easiest just to co-sleep, then we both fell back to sleep as soon as she was latched on. Dd is now 2yrs old and still nurses once around 10pm and again in the wee hours of the morn, probably around 5am. It is absolutely totally normal and necessary for your dc to need to nurse more than once at night.








It'll get better, hang in there!

eta, that dh did sometimes sleep on the couch when he didnt feel that he was getting enough sleep with dd waking to nurse at night, sometimes that did help, b/c we werent all bumping up against each other at night.


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## Proudly AP (Jul 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
I am not upset by your post, but wanted to kindly point out a few things.

Kids are all different. It cannot always be blamed on the parents.


My apologies, TinkerBelle.







However, your final sentence does say what I *tried* to say. Yes, all humans are different, and the OP's child's needs may differ from those of other families she knows.

I stick, however, with saying that lay-people and paediatricians should NOT be telling mothers/parents that their infants do not need to nurse/feed at night, and that they should be sleeping through the night. I feel this leads to the kind of pressure and confusion the OP is expressing.

Peace


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## alisoninparis (Nov 5, 2005)

Hi again everyone! I just wanted to say thanks again for all your hugs 'n' support. We're back to co-sleeping and night nursing for the time being. It just so happens that for the past few days DD has been sick with a cold and cough so it's good timing for all this because she really needs the night nursing and extra comfort and snuggles right now.

Luckily DH is being cool about it. Our sex life is nonexistent and I think DH has accepted that it will remain so for the time being. The most important thing right now is to make sure we're doing what's best for our baby. Bringing her back into our bed has made us all feel better, and closer as a family. The stress level has drastically decreased around here!


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## earthie_mama (Mar 27, 2006)

Maybe you could sneak off and show him how much fun it is in the bathroom lol, always works for us....


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## GiggleBirds (Oct 24, 2006)

Wonderful! So happy for you guys...

...and there's nothing better than waking up to a beautiful smiling baby face, is there?


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## marieandchris (Jun 6, 2005)

I'm coming in late to the ball game here. I just wanted to add to the "you are not alone" column. My ds, now 4.5, did not sleep through the night until he was 2.5!!! EVER. He was high needs as an infant/toddler (i.e. he did not sleep ANYWHERE but in my arms cradled for 10 months...not beside me, ON ME.) but as a little boy, he is the most laid back, easy going, sweet, wonderful, happy soul.

AP does work. Family bed does work. I firmly believe that if you do what they need/want from you as far as attachment and nursing and sleeping when they are so little, you benefit amazingly in the long run.

I'm glad your hubby gave in some and took some of the pressure off of your relationship.

Marie


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## Lynnseedoil (Aug 18, 2005)

I haven't read all the replies but I have a couple of things to add:

I have a 9 mo. old daughter and this thread has been amazingly healing for me. Thank you to all the mamas who shared their stories. DD sleeps worse now than she ever has. She wakes up at least every 2 hours if not every hour and I'm sooo exhausted. Just to know that it's normal and I'm not alone is great.

Alisoninparis, have you considered that you might have post-partum depression? You have talked about your frustration, anger, fatigue, etc. I identify with these fully--and was just diagnosed (sort of) with PPD. I know that a lot of those feelings can be caused just by lack of sleep. But it might be that you could benefit from talking to your doctor/midwife/nurse/friend/whoever about your situation. They might be able to point you towards support groups or even just other women who have similar experiences. I have found that there are many publications that might help you and your husband both to deal with the feelings that you're experiencing.

You're doing a great job taking care of your daughter,mama.







to both you and your family.


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## lilliansmom (Nov 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TinkerBelle* 
I am not upset by your post, but wanted to kindly point out a few things.

My children did NOT CIO, and the first 2 slept between 6-8 hrs at a stretch by 2 mos. My last one held out until 3 mos. They all slept in our bedroom in a bassinet right beside the bed. (I was afraid to co-sleep) Also, my 2 oldest were exclusively BF, yet were not attached to me all night long. They put themselves on a "schedule", not me. My third I had to FF due to medical problems on my part (long story, not going there right now), but he was pretty independent too. He will still wake in the middle of the night, at almost 2, but I cuddle him, give him a drink and then he is ready to go back to his bed.

Kids are all different. It cannot always be blamed on the parents.

My baby never CIO not even once and she slept 6 hour stretch by 3 months by 6 months she was sleeping 10-12 hour night. I have read a lot of post recently that imply babes only sleep long stretches because there mamas let them CIO. It's just NOT true.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Tink and Lillian -- I think its wonderful that your babies are such great sleepers! I just think its necessary to point out that your babies are the unusual ones! Not the OP's baby. She is getting the "vibe" that she has done something wrong and needs to remedy it by using CIO. Thats not fair, and untrue.


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## lilliansmom (Nov 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaduck* 
Tink and Lillian -- I think its wonderful that your babies are such great sleepers! I just think its necessary to point out that your babies are the unusual ones! Not the OP's baby. She is getting the "vibe" that she has done something wrong and needs to remedy it by using CIO. Thats not fair, and untrue.

I agree 100%.


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## Peppermint (Feb 12, 2003)

I had a nursing, co-sleeping baby who nightweaned at 9 months and slept through the night at that point as well, I also had one who nursed multiple times/night until he was 2, it's not about the AP it's about temperment.










PS- *try* to find the time for sex during the day, that was the best thing I ever did to get dh to stay on board with co-sleeping







And, before someone gets all upset at that idea/suggestion, it was something I wanted us to have (even if I didn't "feel" like it) and knew it was an important part of our marriage and something I felt I needed to make a priority. My kids aren't the only ones with needs







.


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## Mama8 (Mar 6, 2006)

It is a wonderful thing that you are willing to bring baby back to bed with you.
In my experience I have 7 surviving dds and the first I was pressured by my mother to night wean and let my dd CIO. 21 years later it still haunts me to remember my baby crying and reaching for me. CIO and night weaning did not help her sleep through the night and to this day she sleeps terribly at night and I know it hurt the trust between my baby and I. I never again used CIO and allowed unlimited access to my breast at night. I also have truly given up the expectation of when the child would night wean, or sleep in their own bed. I now have a 14 month old who I can honestly say that I have no clue how much she nurses at night because she stirs I awake partially and we attach and I go back to sleep with very little disturbance to sleep. At nine months things were harder because she awoke more completely and she was teething, and moving. It passed though and we are both sleeping more soundly as she has aged. My dh is a light sleeper. He hates to be touched at night







: . We decided that the children needed to be taken care of at night and mothered so my dh has his own room. As strange as it sounds we love the arrangement. My dh gets sleep. When the mood strikes and circumstances permit we retire to that room for privacy and a locked door. An added benefit for me since I also have older children is that the days I am exhausted I have a teenager watch the little ones and I sneak to my dhs rooom and get an uninterrupted nap in peace. With my family we have found that leaving the bed for their own sleeping space is a fluid thing. We do have unique circumstances in some respects because we had a son die 3 years ago and due to the way things were at the time I was separated from my then 2 and 4 year old for 3 months. They are now 5 and 7 and we have been so grateful for co-sleeping it has really helped to reassure the little ones that I am really there for them and things are okay now. Right now in my bed I have a 14 month nursling, a 3 year old, a 5 year old and a 7 1/2 yr old. On nights when my 18 or 15 yr old need to work out some problems in their lives and need to talk with their mama I may also have one of them in the bed with me. I also treasured the moment when my 18 went through a very traumatic break-up she came to me crying and fell asleep next to me for comfort. How much more healthy for her to feel she can come to me for comfort at that age instead of turning to other things. Granted the teenagers ending up in my bed tends to be pretty rare but I am grateful they feel they can come to me at anytime if they need to. I am so grateful I was able to follow my heart, have no expectation and co-sleep with my children. Because I truly believe me losing sleep to the 9 month night activities and knees in the back has saved me countless nights of losing sleep because my teenagers are doing things and being places they should not be.
Sorry this was so long. I hope you and your dh get a lot of sleep soon.


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## alisoninparis (Nov 5, 2005)

Your posts really have helped me accept our situation and realize that we are doing the right thing, even though it's not easy. Kim, thanks for sharing about how co-sleeping helped your family through difficult times.

We are doing better now but DD's night wakefulness is posing a problem, especially for DH. I decided to start a new thread about it, so please have a look if you have the time:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?p=6608627


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