# Can I ask: Why the third person?



## ProtoLawyer (Apr 16, 2007)

"Ow, that hurts mommy!"

Why not...

"Ow, that hurts me!"

I've noticed approximately 100% of parents of toddlers address themselves in the third person in front of their children, especially in disciplinary/teaching situations (hence the posting in this forum). I've not had a toddler (my stepkid was 2 when we met, but I wasn't really involved in discipline back then beyond, well, "ow, that hurts!" and I'd leave it at that) so maybe I'm missing something...so, I suppose my question here is: Is there a developmental reason we shouldn't use first-person pronouns with our small children? Is it just a linguistic pattern people slip into because that's what people do? Or is there a switch in my uterus that will flip, should I gestate another human being, and tell my brain to forget "I" and "me" 18 months hence?









Thanks.

(Today is apparently "ProtoLawyer asks questions that don't apply to her situation" day. And yes, I realize that was in third person. I think I need to go to bed.)


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

It's because toddlers don't "get" the concept of pronouns. Saying "ouch, that hurts Mommy" lets a little kid understand that mommy was hurt. Saying "ouch, you hurt me" makes a kid think that his name is "you" and Mommy's name is "me" and then gets thoroughly confused about who the heck Mommy is talking about!

Do me understand you?


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## stormborn (Dec 8, 2001)

I can't help you with the reason as we don't do it, but I think it's just another aspect of "baby talk". Both make me cringe, honestly.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

See, I never did the third person thing when Rain was little, and she understood just fine, so I'm not sure I buy that explanation... she also used pronouns correctly as a one-year-old, and she never did that "Me want to..." thing that little kids in comic strips always do (she used "I"). For years I thought that was something comic strip artists made up, although recently I heard about a real toddler talking like that, so maybe some kids do...

I think it's more along the lines of motherese taken to the nth degree...

Dar


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
It's because toddlers don't "get" the concept of pronouns. Saying "ouch, that hurts Mommy" lets a little kid understand that mommy was hurt. Saying "ouch, you hurt me" makes a kid think that his name is "you" and Mommy's name is "me" and then gets thoroughly confused about who the heck Mommy is talking about!

Do me understand you?









This is hysterical...and true. I don't do it all the time, but do it sometimes with the 2-1/2 yr old. I don't do it at all with the 5 yo anymore; I probably stopped when he was using pronouns correctly, taking his cue.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

I've never used third person. It doesn't come natural to me I hear a lot of people do it though and I think maybe some people think kids need things simplified when they really don't. My kids understood what I meant and never thought my name was "me"









I don't think there is anything wrong with it or anything but I just never did that. Well I shouldn't say never...maybe I might say "wanta come to mama" if I was consoling them but not in regular conversation. I think the word mama is soothing though so in that context I might

I would never say "don't hit mama' I would say "don't hit me".

But I hear a lot of people converse with their child entirely that way.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Dar, I'd have to say your daughter was an exception; more toddlers don't use pronouns correctly for a while, than not...


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
See, I never did the third person thing when Rain was little, and she understood just fine, so I'm not sure I buy that explanation... she also used pronouns correctly as a one-year-old, and she never did that "Me want to..." thing that little kids in comic strips always do (she used "I"). For years I thought that was something comic strip artists made up, although recently I heard about a real toddler talking like that, so maybe some kids do...

I think it's more along the lines of motherese taken to the nth degree...

Dar

My kids never did the "me want to" thing either. Not one out of 4 of them. Maybe that's why









My kids also got pronouns early but they were all very super early talkers so it may have been just their early language abilities.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Or maybe my kids are just dippy.


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## allgirls (Apr 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
Dar, I'd have to say your daughter was an exception; more toddlers don't use pronouns correctly for a while, than not...

I agree with this however maybe that's because people don't model how to use them so the kids don't pick up on them as quickly because of that. We all know kids understand language before they can speak it so maybe they "get" pronouns well before they learn to use them properly.

I'm just theorizing all over the place here now









I wonder if anyone has researched this. It's fascinating.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I actually can remember times I would use the pronoun instead of me (especially since D is just 2-1/2), and they would then get upset and say "no, me!" or "not me!" or "no you!", using the totally wrong thing and beign disgruntled about it.

I'm totally not into baby talk or cutesy stuff, but this was one thing I did/do do with them until they seem to grasp the concept well...as I said above, I don't do it every time, but I do it.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Because the referent "Mommy" never changes.

"You" and "me" change. I'm "me" when I talk about me, but I'm "you" when you talk about "me". In times when you want to be absolutely clear about who's hurt, I don't see anything wrong with "mommy".

FWIW, mixing up pronouns is variable - some kids do it, some kids don't. Even kids who learn ASL as their first language have been known to do it (which is truly cosmic to me, since the sign for you is a point away from yourself and the sign for me is a point toward yourself).

Ds really benefitted from the 3rd person. Dd used more pronouns (probably because she was child #2 and heard them more), but was more likey to confuse them. But it was more things like repeating whole phrases "hold you!" = "hold me", which I'm sure she gleaned from "do you want me to hold you?"

By all means, use what's natural to you. For ds, that was the 3rd person for me. For others that's not. But there's also no superiority to be attached to not using a different register of speech with young children. I'd be willing to bet money that those who say the never used baby talk still changed their language to suit their children.


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## gsd1amommy (Apr 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *stormborn* 
I can't help you with the reason as we don't do it, but I think it's just another aspect of "baby talk". Both make me cringe, honestly.









I don't think it's necessarily baby talk but it makes me cringe, too. I also die a little inside when I hear a parent say, "we don't hit" after their kid has pounded on another kid. Ummm, part of your "we" just did.


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## stormborn (Dec 8, 2001)

Oops. I really didn't mean to sound superior in my post. I don't think there's anything wrong with it at all when others do it; it's just feels awkward coming out of my mouth. One of those random things that bugs me. There are many.


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## ThirdEyeMom (Dec 27, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I've never used third person. It doesn't come natural to me I hear a lot of people do it though and I think maybe some people think kids need things simplified when they really don't. My kids understood what I meant and never thought my name was "me"









I don't think there is anything wrong with it or anything but I just never did that. Well I shouldn't say never...maybe I might say "wanta come to mama" if I was consoling them but not in regular conversation. I think the word mama is soothing though so in that context I might

I would never say "don't hit mama' I would say "don't hit me".

But I hear a lot of people converse with their child entirely that way.

I've never used third person either. For the study: My parents never spoke to their passel in any form of baby talk. (Yup, that is what I call it.) Neither did we speak to dc using any form of baby-talk, nor do our friends. It doesn't cross our minds to speak in another language! Babies and small children don't need to "get pronouns". They learn by hearing and mimicing. Think about it! Do parents who sign to their kids use baby talk?







It must be a thing that is passed down in families, or are the parents who don't use pronouns mimicing the kids?!!


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## ThirdEyeMom (Dec 27, 2008)

Oooopsie! I guess I am partly incorrect about ALS stuff.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allgirls* 
I agree with this however maybe that's because people don't model how to use them so the kids don't pick up on them as quickly because of that. We all know kids understand language before they can speak it so maybe they "get" pronouns well before they learn to use them properly.

I'm just theorizing all over the place here now









I wonder if anyone has researched this. It's fascinating.

Yes, there is a lot of research on this. Some of it is reported in pop science books like "What's Going on in There?" and "The Language Instinct".

My child did not use pronouns at first although I always used pronouns correctly. She called herself "you", e.g. "You want a cookie, please!" In order to help her understand, I would repeat, "You want a cookie? A* wants a cookie? Okay, I'll get you a cookie. Mommy will get it." I personally think that this helped her get pronouns more quickly, not more slowly.

There is evidence that some children do benefit from a parent clarifying what she needs by not using pronouns- though long-term obviously the parent needs to reinforce the common way of saying it, for example: "That hurt me! That hurt mommy."

Some children use words as soon as they learn them. Others wait until they understand the whole system and others, until they can pronounce them.

I personally think that most parents are responding to what their children need, and that is why you get the variation.


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## amma_mama (May 20, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ProtoLawyer* 
"Ow, that hurts mommy!"

Why not...

"Ow, that hurts me!"

I've noticed approximately 100% of parents of toddlers address themselves in the third person in front of their children, especially in disciplinary/teaching situations (hence the posting in this forum). I've not had a toddler (my stepkid was 2 when we met, but I wasn't really involved in discipline back then beyond, well, "ow, that hurts!" and I'd leave it at that) so maybe I'm missing something...so, I suppose my question here is: Is there a developmental reason we shouldn't use first-person pronouns with our small children? Is it just a linguistic pattern people slip into because that's what people do? *Or is there a switch in my uterus that will flip, should I gestate another human being, and tell my brain to forget "I" and "me" 18 months hence?*









Thanks.

(Today is apparently "ProtoLawyer asks questions that don't apply to her situation" day. And yes, I realize that was in third person. I think I need to go to bed.)

Eh...I am going with OP's last choice...I nver really thought about it, but I definitely do it with DD, but never did it before, or with somebody else's child...I certainly had no developmental goal in mind, other than, perhaps, the desire to hear my baby call me "mommy" that first sweet time, then it just became habit...for better or worse!


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

We dont use it either. In fact, I think Alfie Kohn addresses this in his book 'Uncondtional Parenting' - and says not to do it. Funny enough - my son does understand pronouns - weve never had an issue with them. Hes not 'super clever' (no offence to him) - I think its because I simply talk 'real' to him.


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## AndVeeGeeMakes3 (Mar 16, 2007)

Lynn, I'm glad you chimed in! Nice to have the expert's input!

I was looking for the "typical" developmental milestones (since we're not even on the chart







) and it looks like pronoun acquisition doesn't really solidify until 36 months.

Since we're doing this in slow motion, I'm getting to see the stages for a longer amount of time and what I'm seeing/experiencing is a sort of hybrid of third and first person, and even the first person (for her, and me on my tired days!







) is sometimes confused. I think I use the third person to reference myself mostly for clarity and emphasis. I *DO NOT* think of it as baby talk (and, I do think that saying so sounds pretty pejorative







), as we are particularly vigilant against using baby talk because of her issues. As a matter of fact, I hear her speech therapist*s* use the same syntax: "Grace, please bring that to Miss Janet."


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## VijayOwens (Aug 26, 2006)

Doesn't really bother me.







My sister was very confused about you vs. me at 3 or so still. She'd be in the bathroom um, you know sort of thinking things over. And she'd say "you call me when I'm done" and I'd try to say "you call ME when you're done" and she just didn't get it.

It was awfully cute. Because she'd agree with me and then say it wrong again.









-Vijay


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
It's because toddlers don't "get" the concept of pronouns. Saying "ouch, that hurts Mommy" lets a little kid understand that mommy was hurt. Saying "ouch, you hurt me" makes a kid think that his name is "you" and Mommy's name is "me" and then gets thoroughly confused about who the heck Mommy is talking about!

Do me understand you?









I agree. it could cause confusion.

mommy gets hurt: ow that hurt me.
baby gets hurt: ow that hurt.... ??? who did it hurt if mommy is me?

however, I use both interchangeably.
some times I use mommy and sometimes I say me.
sometimes I say baby's name, and sometimes I say you.

my kids are started to understand I, Me, and You now, but I think it's more clear cut when we use names.. especially during things like tantrums where they can't think very clearly and the last thing they need is to try to figure out who is who and what you are talking about. so I think most of the time I use "me" "I" "you" statements... but in times where emotions are running high or I'm trying to make something clear that wasn't clear initially I will use 3rd person to clarify. Also I use "mommy" statements when they are little because I want them to learn the word mommy (and same for Daddy).

sometimes we call DS2 baby and sometimes we call him by his name. DD does the same - sometimes uses his name, sometimes calls him a baby. because he is both.


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

I agree that it's useful for clarity and for emphasis.

I started doing it with DS when he was born without even really noticing what I was doing (so I do think it must be passed down in families-- I'm sure my mother spoke to me that way!). As he got more verbal I started using it 50 per cent of the time, roughly.

Now that he has fully mastered his pronouns I hardly use it any more.

Also, I don't think it's "baby talk", I think it's helpful for small children to help them clarify pronouns.

But if it doesn't come naturally to you, or if you feel weird saying it, then by all means don't!


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

It would only bother me if the child was clearly old enough to understand pronouns. With a toddler, it seems developmentally appropriate.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gsd1amommy* 
I don't think it's necessarily baby talk but it makes me cringe, too. I also die a little inside when I hear a parent say, "we don't hit" after their kid has pounded on another kid. Ummm, part of your "we" just did.









:

Priceless. Can I use this?? I know people that talk like this and it drives me to distraction!!

The other one that makes my skin crawl is when an ADULT says to DD "HER wants up?" or "HER is tired"

Umm. WHAT?

The me/mommy thing doesn't bug me because it's still correct speech, it's just third person. And I think it does help w/clarity. And I'd bet even ppl that think they never refer to themselves in third person have done so every now and then. I always swore I'd never do it, and I don't all the time, but there are times it just makes more sense to them.


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## Lollybrat (Sep 18, 2008)

My son is almost 5 and we still do a lot of speaking in third person with him. He has difficulty processing verbal language due to his ASD. First and second person pronouns are a particular problem for him. Until recently, he was constantly reversing these pronouns. We work on this issue a lot at home and it one of his goals on his IEP. He has made some great progress with pronouns this year, but his use and understanding of first and second person is still very inconsistant. We use the thrid person to clarify who we mean.

One of my son's speech therapists told me that the ability to accurately use first and second person pronouns is a very complex skill. It requires the ability to shift from your own perspective to that of your conversation partner. For many children this is a very difficult task, particularly for kids with ASD, language processing disorders, or auditory processing disorder.

Although we work on pronouns every day, when we are in public we often will just use the third person. Public places can be overstimulating and stressful, so they are not always a good environment for a language lesson. People who hear me use third person speech with my preschooler probably assume that I do not model good language for him.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

her? i can't understand that one either!!

I think the "we dont" comment is just a simplified way of reminding the child what the family values are, but I agree it can be a confusing approach.


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## Theoretica (Feb 2, 2008)

Yeah, I've also heard "hims wants his toy" or whatever. Again, from an adult.

OMG! Insane!


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

hims wants his toy? I would really like to understand why thems be using words like that (hehehe)


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## Danielle13 (Oct 31, 2007)

I say that hurts mommy...

dd calls herself me.








I don't know, its what sounds right coming from my mouth. It feels weird saying "me" to her. Like she would think I was refering to her yk?

She also says Me's. Like she'll bring something and say "this daddys" then something else "this mommys" then something else "this me's"


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## Norasmomma (Feb 26, 2008)

It doesn't bother me and I do call myself "mommy" to DD, I know for a fact it bugs the crud out of my neighbor, but then so do lots of things.


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

I mostly hear the "her wants up" thing in the upper midwest, so I always assumed it was a dialect of the region (like swapping the simple past with the past perfect).

When I say "please don't hit Mommy," DS is less likely to repeat the hitting than if I say "please don't hit me," so I guess I started using third person out of self-preservation.


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## neverdoingitagain (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lolar2* 
I mostly hear the "her wants up" thing in the upper midwest, so I always assumed it was a dialect of the region (like swapping the simple past with the past perfect).

When I say "please don't hit Mommy," DS is less likely to repeat the hitting than if I say "please don't hit me," so I guess I started using third person out of self-preservation.

This is a very interesting conversation, but this particular quote made me







Ah, so true, so true.
Ah







I read it wrong, I thought you meant she's less likely to *say* "please don't hit me" (as in repeating you) rather than repeating the action.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't think it matters one way or the other. I don't remember what I did. Maybe a mix? I don't know but I don't think it has any effect on kids' long-term language skills because I've heard people doing it and not doing it and their kids all sound the same now.


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## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

I didn't use the third person. It was always "Don't hit me. I don't like to be hit." etc. I don't have a problem with it, but baby talk in general has never come naturally to me.
I don't remember if ds had problems with I vs. me, but it seemed like a very long time until he started getting she/her right. lol.


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## beanma (Jan 6, 2002)

I had one child who swapped pronouns and called herself "you" all the time. "You want to go outside, pick you up, you want to go potty, etc". Also, if you want to be called "Mommy/Mama" you might want to reconsider. I have a friend who never called herself "Mommy" and now her dd calls her by her first name. Works fine for them, but I know it means a lot to some moms to be called "Mama".


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## dex_millie (Oct 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar* 
See, I never did the third person thing when Rain was little, and she understood just fine, so I'm not sure I buy that explanation... she also used pronouns correctly as a one-year-old, and she never did that "Me want to..." thing that little kids in comic strips always do (she used "I"). For years I thought that was something comic strip artists made up, although recently I heard about a real toddler talking like that, so maybe some kids do...

I think it's more along the lines of motherese taken to the nth degree...

Dar









:

I try not to do the "Bring this to mommy", I let DH tell him that when he gaves him stuff to gave me of course. I do sometimes though, I guess just because of custom. DS seems to understand find. I also try to say "I am going to the bathroom" not "Mommy is going" and I point to me when I say it somethings. Once in a while it almost seems like he is starting to use I to refer to himself, I will see as he gets to talk more if he would use the pronouns proberly. As I don't get that explanation thing w/ using the third person.


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## LaLaLaLa (Oct 29, 2007)

Both of my kids (19 months apart, so not overlapping) had the same pronoun development, where they spent some time referring to themselves as "you" first, as in "Mommy, carry you up the stairs?"

After a month or so of me and DH responding "Oh, did you mean to say carry *me* up the stairs? Of course!" My kids each eventually went into a hybrid: "Mommy, carry-you-me up the stairs?"

We continued modeling and eventually managed to drop the "carry-you-me" phrasing. It was fascinating to us that our kids both did this, and several other kids we know had similar pronoun issues.

I sometimes used proper pronouns with my kids as babies, but just as often used the third person. Now that my little one is three, I don't do third person anymore. I'm not quite sure when I gave it up.

For me, it's one of those things that would have seemed so unnatural before I had kids but then made more sense when I did have kids, like saying "Use your words" or "Listen to your body" or "Gentle hands."


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
her? i can't understand that one either!!

I think the "we dont" comment is just a simplified way of reminding the child what the family values are, but I agree it can be a confusing approach.

'we' could also be about where a person is from. I have a friend who lives up north more and everyone up there says 'we' (the _royal_ we lmao) and 'us' as part of everyday normal speech... Examples are: 'Give us it' (I mean, its not the proper english of 'give it to me' but its 'proper' up north...)...of course, english is england is much different from english in america lol


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

yea I definitely love being called mommy







of course, if my kids called me by my first name that would work for us too. doesn't change who I am, but you make a good point bean that I think is part of the reason why we use "mommy" or "daddy"


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
'we' could also be about where a person is from. I have a friend who lives up north more and everyone up there says 'we' (the _royal_ we lmao) and 'us' as part of everyday normal speech... Examples are: 'Give us it' (I mean, its not the proper english of 'give it to me' but its 'proper' up north...)...of course, english is england is much different from english in america lol

I think so. I am from jersey, but I live ni florida now. I consider jersey north as far as north america is concerned, but I never heard anyone talk that way lol


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## JamesMama (Jun 1, 2005)

I guess I'm leaning toward that switch flipping in your brain after you have a baby.









I do it with my DS, he never really had issues with pronouns, his only one was around 2 he started saying "Carry you!" rather than "Carry me." it was actually pretty cute (I thought) he now does pronouns just fine.

I also lean more toward reinforcing the fact that I'm MAMA so that my kids call me Mama (and it helps negate some of the "Hold Mommy's hand!" "Are you helping your Mommy?" crap people throw out (no offense to you ladies who have chosen Mommy as your title, I don't care for it PERSONALLY, I prefer to be Mama)


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

Very interesting topic.

I do both, ie, "Mommy loves you" and "I love you." My DS is 27 months and uses the "I" pronoun correctly in all cases but one, which is when asking for help. He says, "Help you a minute?" And I would say it's because I offer help by saying, "Can I help you?" but that example doesn't follow in any other cicrumstance. It's interesting. He also correctly uses my, your, you, etc. most of the time. Maybe because he's just learning to ask for help at all, rather than tantruming, so he is in a more elevated emotional state/ reverting a bit to a less mature syntax? I don't know.


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## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

I absolutely do NOT speak to DS in third person, and never have. He got pronouns VERY early...not always perfect...the me vs I and him vs he stuff gets mixed, but that's hard for many people.









I can't stand the way the third person stuff sounds, and just couldn't deal with it coming out of my mouth, so it never has.


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## kathrineg (Jan 28, 2009)

I like to hear "we don't hit". It's much better than "You don't hit me, but I reserve the right to hit you!"

And of course using the present tense sounds funny, but toddlers aren't great at past/present/future tenses either.

I think that "babytalk" is unfairly stigmatized. Of course, you can go too far, but there's nothing wrong with speaking to a kid in a way that makes sense to them! Communication is the goal, not speaking exactly like you would to an adult.


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## beingmommy (Sep 4, 2008)

I use the third person a lot but try to throw in the first person now and then too (I'll say, "Hitting hurts Momma. It hurts me."). I think I use "Momma" instead of "Me" mostly because I spend nearly all day (and night) with my DS (My DH works and I am a SAHM). If I didn't call myself "Momma" he would not hear it very often. I guess I wonder if he would learn that I was "Momma". He knows "Dad" very well because we'll talk about Dad all day.


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## Devaskyla (Oct 5, 2003)

I use 3rd person when they're babies because I want them to learn to say 'mama' & 'dada'. It was a very conscious decision, when ds1 was around 6 months old. Until that point, we always used 1st person. Now it's just a habit that we try to reduce.


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## srs (Nov 8, 2007)

I started using "Mommy" when DD was born so she would know who I was. It was pretty instinctive, so it never occured to me that anyone would care on way or the other. Just recently I started using a mix, like saying "That hurt me" and if she didn't get it, reinforcing with "That hurt mommy". FWIW, she's extremely verbal and was an early talker but she has started calling me "me" now for some stuff, so I guess it can be confusing.


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## Breeder (May 28, 2006)

Since I adore Noam Chomsky and agree with his findings I am going to have to argue that neither of the camps are completely right on this one. According to Chomsky, the basic rules of language are innate, not like they are hardwired in from birth, but there is a universal grammar that is instinctual to humans. (You dig?) There are certain rules that are true of all forms of human language, and learning a particular tongue is really about setting the particulars of said language. For example, the pronouns.

Some kids just are more in tuned with linguistics than others naturally. Every child matures at their own rate. Just like with walking or riding a bike or math, some kids get it quickly, others do not. I think that this has a lot to do with genetics which would explain why all of one person's kids are quick with pronouns and all of another's are not.

There is no proof that using proper pronouns will lead your child to "get" them more quickly. Nor does it make you superior to those who baby talk or shrug off the pronouns for proper nouns during the toddler years.

I absolutely can _not_ stand when people go all intellectually superior because they don't "baby talk", or they only eat all organic, or they don't do Santa Claus or they don't watch tv... none of these things make you a *better* parent, they just make you parent differently than other people. Which is cool. (Psst: I do some of the things on that list.. but I refuse to go all superior on someone else because of such small things ... also *I am not referring to anyone on this thread in particular.. just a side note. Please do not take offense, this was not an attack*)


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## lnitti (Jun 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LaLaLaLa* 
We continued modeling and eventually managed to drop the "carry-you-me" phrasing. It was fascinating to us that our kids both did this, and several other kids we know had similar pronoun issues.

yup, dd1, started saying "carry you?" We'd joke and say we were too heavy for her to carry us, did she mean to say "carry me?". Then she started saying "carry you me?" It was so cute! But didn't last that long.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:

There is no proof that using proper pronouns will lead your child to "get" them more quickly. Nor does it make you superior to those who baby talk or shrug off the pronouns for proper nouns during the toddler years.
Well that would put you in my camp, then.







I have issues with Noam Chomsky but his linguistics are great. It is annoying to suggest that your child has no pronoun issues because you didn't use motherese. Like saying, "My child potty-trained at 18 months because I didn't coddle him" or "My child learned to walk at 9 months because we didn't hold him too often." It's not true and it blames the parent for totally normal developmental variation.


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## lovingmommyhood (Jul 28, 2006)

I often say "Bring the book to mommy" or "Please wait until Mommy's off the phone". I think Ruthla explained it perfectly. My kids are developing perfectly despite this.


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## delicious (Jun 16, 2003)

i don't call myself mama (at least i don't think i do!) but i do do the "him" thing. honestly it started when ds1 was a baby and dd called him hims. and now we have another baby so we all jokingly call him hims. or say things like "he needs hims giraffe," or whatever.

doing this did not stop my kids from learning proper pronoun usage.


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## emmaegbert (Sep 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
I think the "we dont" comment is just a simplified way of reminding the child what the family values are, but I agree it can be a confusing approach.

This is exactly what I mean when I say "we don't hit". I might also say something like, "its not okay to hit", or even, "no hitting", etc. I don't think its necessarily confusing- if its followed up by a quick intervention to stop the hitting, a reminder or help with a "do-over" of how to say/express a strong emotion in a different way, etc. Okay- so it might be confusing if *all* the adult does is just call out "we don't hit" and allow the hitting to continue unabated. But, I absolutely want to emphasize that hitting is not acceptable without excessive blame/shame. And, for me, its true, I do NOT hit. (when I was a toddler, apparently I did, but I learned to stop expressing my emotions that way a long time ago!)

Gosh I think people shouldn't get too worked up about all this! Speak to your children in the way that feels natural and good to you. The worst thing IMHO would be to get all hung up about it! At least for "typically-developing" kids- a group in which there is a HUGE amount of variation- the main thing is that they hear lots of language and are spoken to frequently. I personally don't like when parents reinforce incorrect grammar or words back to kids, but using the third person or otherwise simplified/clarified language doesn't seem wrong.

My son also called me and his dad by our given names, though now he interchangeably uses the terms "mommy" and "daddy" with our names. (His baby word for nursing was "mama" so I was actually quite happy to get called something other than "milk"...). I don't know- THAT bothered a lot of adults and still does, they think its really weird to hear him call us by our names, sort of the flip side of it bothering people to hear mom's refer to themselves as "mommy".


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## LianneM (May 26, 2004)

I love discussions like this

I say, "We don't hit," as a family value. Definitely makes sense.

What gets me is, "We're teething." Um, really?







It bothers me when people say "we" for everything.

With first or third person, I use both, usually together. I think mostly I do it to repeat my name to the baby who doesn't say "mama" yet









Language acquisition is so interesting. My 4yo has a really strong grasp of it in some instances, using "I" correctly when most adults I know would say "me". It's fascinating to see them learn


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
It is annoying to suggest that your child has no pronoun issues because you didn't use motherese. Like saying, "My child potty-trained at 18 months because I didn't coddle him" or "My child learned to walk at 9 months because we didn't hold him too often." It's not true and it blames the parent for totally normal developmental variation.









: Exactly.

And I agree that the "We don't hit" is a reminder that hitting is not ok, not acceptable and against the family values. And for those who don't say it, what do you tell your child when they hit someone else? Obviously there are tons of possibilities, but they all seem kind of ridiculous when your child has just punched someone, so what makes this particular phrase so funny?

I'm really kind of surprised by how judgmental people seem to be about these things! It's not poor grammar to use the third person and it doesn't hurt anyone... I don't get the animosity!


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## Snuzzmom (Feb 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *emmaegbert* 
My son also called me and his dad by our given names, though now he interchangeably uses the terms "mommy" and "daddy" with our names.

Slightly OT, but my son (27 m) has started calling me by my first name. Except that my name is Kate, and he calls me "Cake." Hee! He also calls me "Monkey" a lot, because I call him and DH Monkey from time to time. It's very sweet, actually.


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## AndVeeGeeMakes3 (Mar 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
Well that would put you in my camp, then.







I have issues with Noam Chomsky but his linguistics are great. It is annoying to suggest that your child has no pronoun issues because you didn't use motherese. Like saying, "My child potty-trained at 18 months because I didn't coddle him" or "My child learned to walk at 9 months because we didn't hold him too often." *It's not true and it blames the parent for totally normal developmental variation.*


Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marylizah* 







: Exactly.

And I agree that the "We don't hit" is a reminder that hitting is not ok, not acceptable and against the family values. And for those who don't say it, what do you tell your child when they hit someone else? Obviously there are tons of possibilities, but they all seem kind of ridiculous when your child has just punched someone, so what makes this particular phrase so funny?

I'm really kind of surprised by how judgmental people seem to be about these things! It's not poor grammar to use the third person and it doesn't hurt anyone... *I don't get the animosity!*









: AND







:


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

I didn't do this because it grates on me a bit and because anecdotally, the kids I've known who had the best early speech skills were the kids whose parents spoke normally to them instead of modifying their grammar. I include myself as one of those kids. My parents used standard pronouns with me, and my mom claims that at 15 months, I followed her around while she weeded the garden saying, "I say I am me and you are you, but you say you are me and I am you." over and over.


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## emmaegbert (Sep 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Snuzzmom* 
Slightly OT, but my son (27 m) has started calling me by my first name. Except that my name is Kate, and he calls me "Cake." Hee! He also calls me "Monkey" a lot, because I call him and DH Monkey from time to time. It's very sweet, actually.

lol, I bet he knows the difference between cake and his mom, too.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca* 
I didn't do this because it grates on me a bit and because anecdotally, the kids I've known who had the best early speech skills were the kids whose parents spoke normally to them instead of modifying their grammar. I include myself as one of those kids. My parents used standard pronouns with me, and my mom claims that at 15 months, I followed her around while she weeded the garden saying, "I say I am me and you are you, but you say you are me and I am you." over and over.









My daughter spoke very early and I'm sure I used the third person at least some of the time. Though I didn't pay much attention because I think this is a complete non-issue.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Oh, and to those who are annoyed by the royal "we"- it is actually grammatically correct, though stylistically weak in most contexts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We

There are more legitimate uses for "we" than just the first-person plural.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I've always done it, and never had any actual intent to do it. We don't generally do the baby talk thing around here, except for somewhat exaggerated changes in intonation. (That's also not intentional, but I do recall reading, years ago, that it seems to be a fairly universal way of speaking to babies, and that babies respond to it well.) It just seems to be the way I naturally speak to young children. I've noticed that I tend to refer to myself as "Auntie Lisa" when speaking to my young nieces and nephews, as well. I don't do that, anymore, but the youngest of my nieces and nephews will be 6 in June...

ETA: I've noticed several comments about toddlers and their comprehension of pronouns, so I'll fill in that gap.
DS1 spoke very early (earlier than most girls I knew, even) and had a _very_ short period of mixing up pronouns - maybe two months?
DD never mixed them up at all that dh or I can remember, and she started talking _very_ early.
Oddly, I can't remember if ds2 mixed them up or not. He didn't start talking, except for a single word here and there, until he was about 27 months old and he's only 3.5, so you'd think I'd remember! I don't remember any pronoun mixups, but there may have been some.


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## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *beingmommy* 
I use the third person a lot but try to throw in the first person now and then too (I'll say, "Hitting hurts Momma. It hurts me."). I think I use "Momma" instead of "Me" mostly because I spend nearly all day (and night) with my DS (My DH works and I am a SAHM). If I didn't call myself "Momma" he would not hear it very often. I guess I wonder if he would learn that I was "Momma". He knows "Dad" very well because we'll talk about Dad all day.

He would have learned your first name. My son still calls me Molly, though he experiments with "mom" sometimes (and then we all burst into laughter).

But I didn't care about that, since I called my mom by her first name from the time I was 4 (I actually started it out of anger when my dad left us, but she was a hippie and it didn't bother her at all!), so his learning my first name instead of a title was a-ok with us!


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## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

Whoops. Before he used my name, DS called me "Milk". Because he would say "milk" and I would respond.







He would point at hubby and say "Papa" then introduce me as Milk.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marylizah* 
And for those who don't say it, what do you tell your child when they hit someone else?

"You are not allowed to hit other people. I don't hit you, and you don't get to hit me or others."

Pretty simple!

I just can't stand how the 3rd person sounds. Y'all can do it all you want, but if I'm around and I twitch when you do it, well, I guess you're warned that I might twitch. Hubby does it every once in awhile and I ask him what on earth he's doing (similar to when he uses someone else's lords name in vain...we don't believe in those people, WHY is his using their names in that way?), b/c he's making me twitch.

As for learning pronouns...if you speak mainly Spanish to a child, HOW are they going to learn English well? Hubby's mom refused to teach them Korean b/c she thought it would hinder their English, but the kids of course heard her speak Korean to others. They ended up with a 3rd grade mastery of Korean, having only heard it passively when spoken to others, and they don't have 100% English skills, either, b/c their main teacher wasn't fluent.

If you don't use pronouns with your kids, how can you expect them to pick them up? Obviously they do, but it seems it would be far easier if they were actually taught them by using them...rather than just hearing them when your'e speaking to another adult.

Anyway, for me to use 3rd person would be an extreme hardship, I'm not wired for it...if it didn't make me twitch to hear it I would never even think about it!


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## Tsubaki (Dec 26, 2007)

The Dr. Sears Baby Book actually says to do this (3rd Person Speech) so I trained myself into it even though it makes me cringe, too. But now I'm thinking I really want to retrain myself and drop it. Most parenting advice from "experts" is opinion-based anyway.

You know what really makes me cringe? My mother still calls herself "Mommy" and my father "Daddy", even though her kids are 31, 29, 25, and 14.

Please, please, please, do what feels right to you when they're toddlers, but don't let it go that far!!!


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## OGirlieMama (Aug 6, 2006)

I'm a writer, and I have to say, I'm pretty impressed with the amount of thought and judgment a lot of people give to the minute details of other peoples' parent-child communication! I'm not above judgment of someone else's parenting, but I rarely notice whether another parent talks in the 3rd person or the first to their child - I'm more noticing the content and tone of the conversation.

It seems we all eventually learn proper pronoun use, so I'm sorry if it grates on someone else to hear me say "Mama loves you sooooooo much" to my child. FWIW, I flip back and forth between first- and third-person and it hasn't seemed to hinder my children's language development. Actually, I think they got the idea of pronouns pretty quickly. They never went through a "Kate want that" or "Me love you" phase. It was always "I want that." Actually, more often it was "We want that" (speaking for both of them), which cracked me up a lot when they were younger.

One exception I can think of is something that has come up here already. When they were around 18 months, Lilly started saying "Cay-you" and putting her arms up at the bottom of the steps. Clearly she was saying "Carry you" meaning "Carry me." What's weird is that her sister said it almost the same, except it came out as "Darrow" and somehow that made-up word has stuck and at 3 years old my kids are likely to come up and say something like "I want my fairy wings in my room. Can you darrow me up there?"


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## BarnMomma (Dec 12, 2008)

I'll admit we're totally the "mommy loves you" "don't hit daddy" "please give it to mommy" type folks.

And yet...DS began saying I do! at about 12 months when he wanted to do something himself. So instead of working on the pronooun, we're working on adding in the"can" and "it."

I think as long as you are highly verba, in front of your children they will figure it out. I think we add the _mommy_ and _daddy_ in in place of _you_ or _me_ becasue what's more comfortin gto a child than the image of his two most loved people?


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## Marylizah (Jun 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkybean* 

"You are not allowed to hit other people. I don't hit you, and you don't get to hit me or others."

Pretty simple!

[snip]

As for learning pronouns...if you speak mainly Spanish to a child, HOW are they going to learn English well? Hubby's mom refused to teach them Korean b/c she thought it would hinder their English, but the kids of course heard her speak Korean to others. They ended up with a 3rd grade mastery of Korean, having only heard it passively when spoken to others, and they don't have 100% English skills, either, b/c their main teacher wasn't fluent.

If you don't use pronouns with your kids, how can you expect them to pick them up? Obviously they do, but it seems it would be far easier if they were actually taught them by using them...rather than just hearing them when your'e speaking to another adult.

Anyway, for me to use 3rd person would be an extreme hardship, I'm not wired for it...if it didn't make me twitch to hear it I would never even think about it!

Well, as to what you say when your child hits, I don't see it being any less ludicrous than saying "We don't hit", because, allowed to or not, your child just hit someone.

And I'm raising a trilingual child, so I'd like to address your comparison. If you aren't constantly using pronouns with your child, and instead speak in the 3rd person, your child is still hearing pronouns being used correctly all day long. By everyone. In every possible context. Your child will pick them up and use them (no one here seems to have a child who is older than, say, 8 and still struggling with pronouns!).

As for bi/trilingualism, a child needs to hear it spoken to him/her and to others to become fully fluent. Learning one part of speech somewhat passively, compared to learning an entire language passively can't really be compared.

So twitch away if it bugs you so much, but understand that for others it's either a conscious choice to do what feels best, or something practically instinctual and innate, and either way it doesn't harm anyone or prevent the acquisition of pronouns.


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

i say "i" and "me" usually, though sometimes a "mama" will pop out my mouth.

my dd never said "me want that" or "her is upset" or anything like that, doubt ds will either. i hear parents reinforcing that type of speech sometimes and it makes me absolutely cringe. cracks me up when someone does it to my babe-he just stares at them. like, "come again?" my dd used to give baby talking grown ups a lifted eyebrow, lol. gah.


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## brightonwoman (Mar 27, 2007)

I use both (together)
"Ouch honey, you hurt me, you hurt mommy"
They may not really understand pronouns (thus using 'mommy'), but on the other hand I think using a personal pronoun makes me own it more, if that makes sense. If I 'own' the pain, then ds makes a more personal connection about actually having hurt ME, is that just clear as mud?!
I think that if we own our feelings, it helps our children learn to own theirs (be it pain, sadness, anger, etc). I read that in a parenting book someplace, I can't even remember which one, but it's really stuck to me.


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## 2cutiekitties (Dec 3, 2006)

that is very interesting food for thought. I use both. It never even dawned on me to focus on way or the other. I have never noticed it on someone else.

My sons favorite word is me. All me, all mine. I have never heard I though. He also knows his name. Although he is now calling himself baby Ollie, which is my pet saying. He is 24 months.


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## ChampagneBlossom (Feb 5, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amma_mama* 
Eh...I am going with OP's last choice...I nver really thought about it, but I definitely do it with DD, but never did it before, or with somebody else's child...I certainly had no developmental goal in mind, other than, perhaps, the desire to hear my baby call me "mommy" that first sweet time, then it just became habit...for better or worse!









:


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## Nautical (Mar 4, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruthla* 
It's because toddlers don't "get" the concept of pronouns. Saying "ouch, that hurts Mommy" lets a little kid understand that mommy was hurt. Saying "ouch, you hurt me" makes a kid think that his name is "you" and Mommy's name is "me" and then gets thoroughly confused about who the heck Mommy is talking about!

Do me understand you?

















:


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkybean* 
If you don't use pronouns with your kids, how can you expect them to pick them up? Obviously they do, but it seems it would be far easier if they were actually taught them by using them...rather than just hearing them when your'e speaking to another adult.

Anyway, for me to use 3rd person would be an extreme hardship, I'm not wired for it...if it didn't make me twitch to hear it I would never even think about it!

There ARE benefits to adjusting your speech to your child. There's a cognitive development aspect here too, and most parents are aware of that, subconsciously. When your 1 year old gets more advanced, parents will find pronouns slipping in more and more. Even parents who use a lot of 3rd person with their kids don't ALWAYS talk this way.

The bottom line is: be aware of your child's comprehension of your language and speak how YOU feel comfortable.

But, everyone should beware of making claims that your (that's y'all's) children have brilliant language because you (y'all) didn't use baby-talk. Your children probably has great language because you TALKED to them, baby-talk or no. claims to never using baby talk always end up sounding somewhat holier than thou. There's NO documented evidence that using 3rd person slows a child down.

I'd be willing to be money that everyone here adjusted their speech to some degree for their children. ("Baby talk" is more than just sounding funny and using 3rd person.)


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *milkybean* 
if you speak mainly Spanish to a child, HOW are they going to learn English well? Hubby's mom refused to teach them Korean b/c she thought it would hinder their English, but the kids of course heard her speak Korean to others. They ended up with a 3rd grade mastery of Korean, having only heard it passively when spoken to others, and they don't have 100% English skills, either, b/c their main teacher wasn't fluent.

Well, bi/trilingualism is different. Their mother would have been much better off to speak to them in Korean and help their cognitive development along in Korean. It's much easier to learn a 2nd language (English) when you're fully fluent in another one and can transfer concepts from one to the other. I haven't a clue as to how you describe photosynthesis in Korean, but if you know the concept in Korean, learning the English words/grammar to go along with it is a lot easier.


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## Margarita26 (Apr 13, 2005)

i dont do the third person thing but my mom does it like madwoman with my son.

he's 3.5 and speaks fluently and totally understands pronounds so there is no reason.

"Grandma's tired now." "Here give that to Grandma." "Hug Grandma" "Thats grandma's watch" ETC ETC ETC

it drives me crazy. once i asked her, in exactly the same words as OP "why the third person?"

and she just got a little offended and said "i dont know" and kept doing it. it sounds really condescending to me, now that he's so old especially. i wish i could get her to stop but i dont want to hurt her feelings.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I used to ask the same question the OP asked before I had kids and I always swore I would never talk like that. Then I had a kid and I found myself talking like that. I don't know why it happened, it just did. Now that my dd is six I have mostly come out of this but I still find myself doing it sometimes.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:

I don't know why it happened, it just did.
Here's a theory that has been confirmed by many linguists: you, as a parent, were actually responding to your child's needs. You consciously or sub-consciously responded to your child's very normal confusion when faced with pronouns. You probably realized at some level that he simply was not registering "me" and "you" as clearly although you knew he knew your title. So you used the title. It was the logical alternative, just like the logical alternative when when speaking to any language-learner is to use simpler constructions.

What would be stupid would be if we started speaking VERY LOUDLY TO OUR CHILDREN WHEN THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND US, like some people do to tourists. Now, that would annoy me!


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
What would be stupid would be if we started speaking VERY LOUDLY TO OUR CHILDREN WHEN THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND US, like some people do to tourists. Now, that would annoy me!



















Sadly, I do that - only it's called "yelling". I start feeling as though if I'm just _loud_ enough, ds2 will have to listen. It upsets me, upsets him and doesn't work, anyway. *sigh*


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## emmaegbert (Sep 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride* 









Sadly, I do that - only it's called "yelling". I start feeling as though if I'm just _loud_ enough, ds2 will have to listen. It upsets me, upsets him and doesn't work, anyway. *sigh*

lol... and then my son does it back to me!

(though, if I just repeat myself to my son w/out raising my voice, for some reason it irritates the heck out of my DH. I don't know. they both like to ignore me I guess, so any strategy I use is bound to get on their nerves. Maybe I should start talking about myself in the third person and they'd take me more seriously? hmmm)


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

LOL @ Storm Bride. That is a good point. DID YOU HEAR ME? Although, for me, it is really just letting off steam, because I know she did hear me. Which is probably worse.









Quote:

Maybe I should start talking about myself in the third person and they'd take me more seriously? hmmm)
Didn't work with my husband!


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## Tsubaki (Dec 26, 2007)

The Noam Chomsky comment is interesting. Even if there are universal qualities to the structure of language, I don't think that applies to the correct use of pronouns, since pronoun syntax varies quite a bit in different languages.

I can tell you that in Japanese, people also use the third person for talking to children.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

If you work with enough babies you will learn there is no one size fits all approach to getting a point across verbally.

I can think of many instances when saying "Give the cup to me" would have met with a blank look of confusion from a 14 month old. "Give the cup to mommy" might have resulted in the baby looking at the cup, looking at me, then pushing the cup to me. Some toddlers need even more third person direction as in "Kai, put the cup in mommy's hand". It REALLY depends on the baby.


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## Enudely (Jul 2, 2005)

For me it must comes out naturally so I don't worry about it


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## Elizabeth2008 (Nov 26, 2008)

the reason is that when they are really young they don't understand pronouns and you want to be clear with them about whom you're talking. The problem is that they soon DO learn what pronouns are, but we continue to talk in the third person. My DS just turned 3 and I catch myself doing it all the time still. It's lame and I need to stop now!!







lol..


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breeder* 
Since I adore Noam Chomsky and agree with his findings I am going to have to argue that neither of the camps are completely right on this one. According to Chomsky, the basic rules of language are innate, not like they are hardwired in from birth, but there is a universal grammar that is instinctual to humans. (You dig?) There are certain rules that are true of all forms of human language, and learning a particular tongue is really about setting the particulars of said language. For example, the pronouns.

OK, since this is treading very heavily on my area of teaching/research, I feel compelled to give a couple disclaimers here:
1. Chomsky's Language Acquisition Device is a THEORY. Chomsky himself is a philosopher/linguist and never collected empirical data to support this theory. That being said, I believe there IS some innate language faculty, but it's more likely to be innately guided learning (Gould & Marler if anyone is looking for references) than strictly innate.

2. Modern developmental psycholinguistics has found that young children/infants are amazingly good at finding regularities in speech and detecting patterns. This probably means that there are fewer innate mechanisms than Chomsky thought.

3. There's good evidence that adjusting your speech to your child can help them, AND that using the 'baby talk' (specifically a higher pitch) is more interesting to young infants.

4. Cognitive development plays a role too.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breeder* 
I absolutely can _not_ stand when people go all intellectually superior because they don't "baby talk", or they only eat all organic, or they don't do Santa Claus or they don't watch tv... none of these things make you a *better* parent, they just make you parent differently than other people. Which is cool. (Psst: I do some of the things on that list.. but I refuse to go all superior on someone else because of such small things ... also *I am not referring to anyone on this thread in particular.. just a side note. Please do not take offense, this was not an attack*)

Yes, indeed. (I'm clearly not a superior parent. I do none of those things.)


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## *Erin* (Mar 18, 2002)

not condemning baby talk from my Tower of Ivory, i should clarify-although i use correct pronouns, i do speak in a different tone of voice for babies. i think most people instinctively do? i just don't call it "baby talk" bc to me, that term conjures up a garish person talking a horrid mishmash of prounoun, verb, and noun, shouting it at my baby in an ingratiating voice....

interesting chomsky stuff...


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## cotopaxi (Sep 17, 2007)

Didn't read all the responses, but I was just thinking about this this morning b/c my own mom, who takes care of my baby several days a week, told me today "Grandma bought a few extra pairs of sweatpants for LO to keep at her house." I was like, LOL, it's so engrained she's talking to ME that way now.

I personally switch back and forth - sometimes it seems like she needs the clarification, but I also think it's good for her to be exposed to pronouns.


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## COVegMom (Mar 9, 2008)

I rarely use third person--I can never figure out if I should keep the verbs in third person or revert to first person, and I didn't want to model wierd sentence patterns.

I think kids can figure out the pronouns from context. Their little minds are geared up for decoding language. No matter how you say it, I think it is pretty clear from your bady language who is hurt, what hurt means, and they know who did the hurting (or kissing, or hugging, or tickling, or whatever).


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## blithespirit (Feb 21, 2009)

Coming from a pedagogical perspective the power of using a name is very important. When you use a child's name they learn something much more quickly than if their name is not used. It is very important for teachers, for instance to say a child's name repeatedly while teaching them. This applies to children as well but I think it would be fine to say, "Susie, it is time that you put your toys away now." Maybe it is the power of personalization pushing some to say "Mommy" this and that. I don't know. Maybe the emphasis of saying names gives power to the message one is trying to convey.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ProtoLawyer* 
"Ow, that hurts mommy!"

Why not...

"Ow, that hurts me!"

I've noticed approximately 100% of parents of toddlers address themselves in the third person in front of their children, especially in disciplinary/teaching situations (hence the posting in this forum). I've not had a toddler (my stepkid was 2 when we met, but I wasn't really involved in discipline back then beyond, well, "ow, that hurts!" and I'd leave it at that) so maybe I'm missing something...so, I suppose my question here is: Is there a developmental reason we shouldn't use first-person pronouns with our small children? Is it just a linguistic pattern people slip into because that's what people do? Or is there a switch in my uterus that will flip, should I gestate another human being, and tell my brain to forget "I" and "me" 18 months hence?









Thanks.

(Today is apparently "ProtoLawyer asks questions that don't apply to her situation" day. And yes, I realize that was in third person. I think I need to go to bed.)

This is actually a pet peeve of mine in my own home. My husband ALWAYS refers to himself in the third person when speaking to our daughters. I have brought this up with him. I have pointed out how he doesn't speak that way to anyone else on the planet, not even his son (who is nearly 12 years old, so it may be an age thing, but it's not because he doesn't speak to his 2 year old niece like this, either).

It drives me up the wall. I ask him why he can't say, 'Don't hit me' or 'I love you' to them instead of 'Don't hit DADDY' or 'DADDY loves you'.

It's just so annoying and in my opinion, distancing.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

We've never referred to ourselves in the third person, and neither of our children were at all confused about it. In fact, I don't have any "mom" friends that I can think of who refer to themselves in the third person with their kids, and none of their kids seemed confused about it either.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
This is actually a pet peeve of mine in my own home. My husband ALWAYS refers to himself in the third person when speaking to our daughters. I have brought this up with him. I have pointed out how he doesn't speak that way to anyone else on the planet, not even his son (who is nearly 12 years old, so it may be an age thing, but it's not because he doesn't speak to his 2 year old niece like this, either).

It drives me up the wall. I ask him why he can't say, 'Don't hit me' or 'I love you' to them instead of 'Don't hit DADDY' or 'DADDY loves you'.

It's just so annoying and in my opinion, distancing.

Aww, cut the guy some slack. It's an age thing and as soon as your toddlers aren't toddlers anymore, he'll quit it.

I did that a lot when my kids were little, and I don't do it any more. I did what came naturally to me, and your husband is doing what comes naturally to him.

If you naturally use pronouns, use them. If you don't, use the third person.

Really, it's possible to overthink this.


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

A lot of adults still have pronoun issues. I often hear people say " Do you want to go with George and I." So I am not surprised that kids are sometimes confused by them.


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## catters (Nov 20, 2007)

I've been working on pronouns with DS (18 months). He has "I" down pretty well, but I do say things like, "Ow, you hurt Mommy" then follow up immediately with "Ow, you hurt me". Honestly, I do not think he's gleaning the meaning behind pronouns yet. But maybe my child is just slow. I'm not worried. I have no doubt he'll speak well when it counts.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LynnS6* 
Aww, cut the guy some slack. It's an age thing and as soon as your toddlers aren't toddlers anymore, he'll quit it.


If it's an age thing, why doesn't he do that to any other child their age?

Not to mention, the younger one has been extremely verbal since she was one year old and I swear she uses better sentence structure than her daddy does.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
If it's an age thing, why doesn't he do that to any other child their age?

Not to mention, the younger one has been extremely verbal since she was one year old and I swear she uses better sentence structure than her daddy does.









Because the other purpose of a special type of speech directed at children is to express intimacy!


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## lolar2 (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *COVegMom* 
I rarely use third person--I can never figure out if I should keep the verbs in third person or revert to first person, and I didn't want to model wierd sentence patterns.

I think kids can figure out the pronouns from context. Their little minds are geared up for decoding language. No matter how you say it, I think it is pretty clear from your bady language who is hurt, what hurt means, and they know who did the hurting (or kissing, or hugging, or tickling, or whatever).

It really isn't clear to DS. When you say a sentence to him in two different ways-- one way with pronouns and the other in third person-- it is quite clear that he understands the third person sentence and not the pronoun sentence. And his language is "advanced" for his age, so I expect that is the case for a large percentage of children.


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