# Appropriate touches and men question



## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

If a man is standing with legs spread wide and a child walks up and puts her face in his crotch (right on his penis) and he just stands there...is that inappropriate?

If a man is sitting spread eagle on the edge of a chair and a child walks up and pats his crotch and he just sits there...is that inappropriate?

I've been having ongoing problems with my gramma's husband and I'm at the end of my rope. I've talked and bitched for almost a year. I'm going to hurt him if I see him let dd touch his penis again.

Am I being too sensitive? I don't see this problem with dd and her dad--only gramma's husband. These are the only 2 men dd is around so I don't know if I'm just being too sensitive.

As a woman and her mom, dd comes in contact with my crotch quite often. But I also don't have hanging parts like a man. If I'm rocking her, her foot might land on my pevic bone area and that's okay with me. But, if her foot actually falls betwen my legs and is touching my vagina/clitoris, I move her foot because I don't think that's appropriate. A man is just "out there" and I just don't know if what he's doing is way out of line or somewhat common. Help please? Frazzled mama.


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## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)

uh, I would move if it were me. I think that it would be a normal reflex to move if a child was touching me in that area.


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## gsd1amommy (Apr 6, 2007)

Tell him what you want him to do when she touches his groin.


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gsd1amommy* 
Tell him what you want him to do when she touches his groin.

I agree, but didn't she say in her OP that she has bitched for a yr? TO whom exactly? If you have expressed your concerns to him and nothing has been done, then I'd definately keep dd away from him. I, personally, would be bothered.


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## Rosedotcom (Apr 22, 2003)

Quote:

uh, I would move if it were me. I think that it would be a normal reflex to move if a child was touching me in that area.
Same here. I think a lot of men might be uncomfortable especially given that this child is not related to him. I would say something to the Grandma's husband.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

At least I know I'm not being sensitive, thank you. It's my gramma's husband. He is never alone with her. Never. But, gramma watches dd a couple days/week and we visit over there. He has a frontal lobe brain injury--impulse control problems, being child-like, etc.

A week ago dd's dad finally stepped in and had a man-to-man with him about sitting with his legs open and dd touching him. The very next day is when I caught him standing and dd walked up to his penis....and he just stood there. I pulled her away.

I've had numerous conversations with gramma and him. My request for the past few months has been: I don't want him to touch her. Don't pick her up. Don't hold her hand and walk with her. Leave her alone. That is what dd's dad told him a week ago. Nothing has worked. All 4 of us are going to sit and chat on Sunday about this matter...again.

If he touches her (if he pats her head or holds her hand...I'm serious. I don't like this guy) after our Sunday conversation that or lets her touch him I will be forced to break my gramma's heart and tell her dd can't come over anymore if her husband is there. That will kill her...but I'm at the end of my rope. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't too sensitive with this before I give the ultimatim and/or break gramma's heart. I hate her husband. Can't stand him.


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## gsd1amommy (Apr 6, 2007)

You need a different child care situation. It is unreasonable to expect your grandma to take care of your daughter with all the stipulations you have layed out in this post. I can't imagine the difficulty she faces trying to live up to the standards you set.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:

It is unreasonable to expect your grandma to take care of your daughter with all the stipulations you have layed out in this post and other posts.
You're right. Everytime I bring it up she gets all emotional. She wants to keep dd. But her husband needs to keep away. Period. There have been way too many on going things with him.

Here's the thing: When gramma and her husband are home alone, her husband lays in the bedroom and watches tv. All night. Gramma is in the living room or kitchen. She hardly ever see's husband. But when me/dd come over he hovers and won't leave dd alone. That on top of him letting dd touch him, staring while I'm changing her diaper (way in the past, he doesn't do that anymore) and some other things. He has no right to touch her at all....I don't like him. It's not a happy little family situation where he's "banned to his room with dd is over"....he stays in his room _until_ dd comes over. That's just one of the many things that's so wrong with him/this situation.


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## dancebaraka (Dec 14, 2006)

Yuck. I used to work as an advocate and counselor at a Sexual Assault Center. Most of the cases we saw were children. Most of the children's perpatrators were gaurdians and people they knew. IMO if you are having an instinct that something is wrong and you are getting signals that something is wrong, then something may very well be wrong. Considering that 1 out of every 4-5 women in our society are sexually assaulted some time in their life, I think it is wise to have awareness and ACT on it. I don't usually give out a lot of advice here on MDC, but frankly, if I were you, I would trust my Mama gut and protect my child from this guy. To me this means getting childcare needs met elsewhere.


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## crazyeight (Mar 29, 2006)

i am surprised that the grandma is still able to take care of her husband. I worked with brain injured persons and theres a HUGE difference between them all. since he is childlike AND its a frontal lobe injury there is a very very very slim chance that you will ever be able to get this rule in effect unless the grandma does something. although alot of the childlike brain injury patients aren't "sexual" towards children it may be understandable at some point that he is interested cause shes simple; imagination etc and not talking about the "real" world. HOWEVER i am not saying its ok. brain injured persons where i worked were completely and totally seperate from the other people with disabilities (kids were mingled with all other disabilities though).


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gsd1amommy* 
You need a different child care situation. It is unreasonable to expect your grandma to take care of your daughter with all the stipulations you have layed out in this post and other posts. I can't imagine the difficulty she faces trying to live up to the standards you set.

It ticked me off but I looked past it until it ticked me off a little more. I went through my posts, specifically the one you're referring to (which is against the UA agreement, which I have gotten in trouble for--bringing up old posts). I have basically 2 stipulations: men don't see my dd naked and they're not to be alone with her. That's it. 2 little rules. I don't find that to be difficult for anyone to abide by. No more than not allowing meat, sweets, tv, and other rules that all parents set. Your post was very rude, uncalled for, and unjustified--considering I have 2 rules that are put in place for my dd. If you don't like the way I parent or the rules I have set forth, walk away. Rudeness is just ugly and it hurts feelings...even if over the internet.


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## sunkissedmumma67 (Jul 9, 2007)

Did i get this right? You are leaving your dd in the same house with this man when you are not there. That is sick!







I wouldn't leave my kids with anyone like that for 1 second, let alone for hours! Because he has mental issues, may be why he doesn't move away when your dd touches him, or he may like it, he may be perverted! Have you asked your dd about what he does with her when you are not there? Keep your dd away from this man, he may not be harming her, he may not have bad motives, but he may and you cannot take a chance like that with your dd!







You can't know for sure that he isn't ever alone with her, when you are not there!







:


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## gsd1amommy (Apr 6, 2007)

There's really no reason to be ticked off at all. You need a different childcare situation. There's nothing to be mad at me for. You are the one making the rules. They are not being followed. You are afraid your daughter is going to be a victim so you need to make a change for her and for your piece of mind. I'm not being rude.


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## SarahGuinn (Mar 6, 2002)

I am confused, your daughter is never alone with a man? What a difficult rule to enforce.

Listen, your grandmother must be elderly and she is saddled with a husband with a brain injury. Even if she cries, you need to do her a favor (even if she doesn't see it that way) and find another child care situation. The touching issue aside, start with compassion for your grandmother's situation..


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## bellacymom (Apr 3, 2008)

The whole thing would give me the creeps. I don't think I would let my kid stay there alone. I would take my kids for a visit to see their grandmother and be there where I could see what the man is doing. I am sorry you are in that position. I know from experience that doubts about family members intentions is a very uncomfortable and scary situation. Good luck Sunday.


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## ~Em~ (Oct 4, 2007)

Caring for two people is hard on anyone - I can see how it could be difficult for your grandmother. However, I would not be comfortable leaving my child with her _at all,_ so I agree you should find new childcare accomodations for your baby. I would also make sure you plan lots of events/outings/visits for your child to be with her grandmother - it would be tragic for your grandmother not to be able to see the baby at all or only rarely because of her husband.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Ok. DD is 11 months. She just started walking and this issue just resurfaced. It happened in the past where he'd stand her on his crotch. We addressed it. He stopped doing it. Everything was fine until she started walking so the issue is back. *He is never alone with her.* Never out of eye view of me or gramma.

*He's not an invalid.* He has a full time job, drives, works outside, etc. Gramma doesn't take care of him. (eta His only problem is impulse control and the like). He just lays in bed and watches TV Land all night...and pops out when dd is there. (eta Gramma turned 60 this year...she's my adopted gramma. She's not elderly...very active).

I'm between a rock and a hard place with this issue. No, I don't want dd there while he is there. I have 2 caretakers--gramma and her dad. Her dad is not available very much. So she is the primary one while I work. We will all sit down on Sunday and talk and if I see it happen one more time I will pull dd from my gramma. I posted here to make sure I wasn't being too sensitive with the issue (as I have been known to be sensitive with this kind of stuff). Before I give the ultimatim on Sunday....because it will absolutely crush my gramma and it will totally screw me on childcare. I haven't seen men with children. I didn't know if I was just being too sensitive or if it was somewhat normal.


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

If you don't feel comfy with this guy, you need to stop taking your child there.

I cannot politely express my opinion on your rules about men in general. Of course, you seem to be feeding your problem with men by keeping you and your child in constant contact with someone who reinforces your obvious already existing problem with men.

Since YOU are the only one in control of this situation, and YOU know that you have a problem, and YOU know that this man may be a problem and YOU know that gma could not possibly have the God-Like-Powers to watch him every moment......

You need to ask yourself why you are continuing to pertuate this situation.


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## gsd1amommy (Apr 6, 2007)

Thank you Demeter9. Words are failing me. That is what I am saying in my head.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Demeter9* 
If you don't feel comfy with this guy, you need to stop taking your child there.

I cannot politely express my opinion on your rules about men in general. Of course, you seem to be feeding your problem with men by keeping you and your child in constant contact with someone who reinforces your obvious already existing problem with men.

Since YOU are the only one in control of this situation, and YOU know that you have a problem, and YOU know that this man may be a problem and YOU know that gma could not possibly have the God-Like-Powers to watch him every moment......

You need to ask yourself why you are continuing to pertuate this situation.









:

I believe I have responded before that your rule about never alone with a male is WAY out of line and will be seriously damaging.

BUT, you are allowing your daughter to be around a man that you have specific creepy feelings about. That is just as bad.

Are you getting any therapy? I think you need to evaluate your own decision making in regards to your child.

-Angela


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
Ok. DD is 11 months. She just started walking and this issue just resurfaced. It happened in the past where he'd stand her on his crotch. We addressed it. He stopped doing it. Everything was fine until she started walking so the issue is back. *He is never alone with her.* Never out of eye view of me or gramma.

*He's not an invalid.* He has a full time job, drives, works outside, etc. Gramma doesn't take care of him. (eta His only problem is impulse control and the like). He just lays in bed and watches TV Land all night...and pops out when dd is there. (eta Gramma turned 60 this year...she's my adopted gramma. She's not elderly...very active).

I'm between a rock and a hard place with this issue. No, I don't want dd there while he is there. I have 2 caretakers--gramma and her dad. Her dad is not available very much. So she is the primary one while I work. We will all sit down on Sunday and talk and if I see it happen one more time I will pull dd from my gramma. I posted here to make sure I wasn't being too sensitive with the issue (as I have been known to be sensitive with this kind of stuff). Before I give the ultimatim on Sunday....because it will absolutely crush my gramma and it will totally screw me on childcare. I haven't seen men with children. I didn't know if I was just being too sensitive or if it was somewhat normal.

You need to change your childcare situation. You have set up a situation where it is absolutely impossible for the people involved. There is no way to care for an active baby and have someone else in the house and be able to guarantee they are never alone with the baby. There is no way for a brain-damaged man with impulse control issues to... control his impulses.

And I am not saying his impulses are pedophilic. But I think you may be lucky that his reaction has been freezing up - what if his first impulse was to hit your child? Your grandmother being in the room would be no good.

If you really believe this is a dangerous situation, you _need_ therapy to figure out why you have continued to leave your child there.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

It doesn't sound like your dd is safe there.
How does Gramma go pee? Does she take your dd with her?

Does Gramma suspect that her dh could have pedophilic (sp?) tendencies? If not then there is no way she can make sure your dd is safe from him if she doesn't believe that her dh would be capable of that in the first place.

I am REALLY confused as to why you are still sending her there.

I feel sick right now, worried about what may happen (or may have already happened) to your dd









I understand that it is prob free child care, but how "free" is it when you have to worry about crap like this?

I know that this must be hard, I really feel for you being in this situation to begin with.

I hope you can make the best decision for you and your family.









.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

I would say that my DH and most average guys I know would *at least* shift themselves a bit.

Now that I have read more responses, I dont even understand why you would continue to bring your child there to be cared for. Is your grandmas feelings worth the potential risk to your child? I would let her come to your house to babysit, or my child would not go there anymore. Period. If I have funky feelings about someone, thats it. I dont need to justify it or explain it.


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## baltic_ballet (May 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MommytoTwo* 
Now that I have read more responses, I dont even understand why you would continue to bring your child there to be cared for. Is your grandmas feelings worth the potential risk to your child? I would let her come to your house to babysit, or my child would not go there anymore. Period. If I have funky feelings about someone, thats it. I dont need to justify it or explain it.











I also don't understand why you would continue to leave your child in this situation, talk about it for nearly a year and not take action. If this has being going on for almost a year; I would have made other childcare arrangements *A YEAR AGO* and not left my DC in this situation

Your *first* responsibly should be for your child's safety and then your gma's feelings; in time she will come to understand why you needed to to take the action you took but it would take a lot longer for your child to overcome being abused. If something happened to your DC whilist in grandma's care, I am sure she would feel terrible and so would you for not listening to and acting on your feelings sooner - there is no way she can watch dc every minute.


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## mrspineau (Jan 15, 2008)

I am assuming that your grandmother doesn't think that he cannot be trusted, otherwise I would think that she wouldnt allow her to come over. That being said, there is no way you can know for sure that he is never alone with her unless you are there. Imagine if something did happen? you would never forgive yourself for not removing her from that situation. Please, I know that it is hard, but set up a weekly date for your gramma and your daughter and stop letting her go over there. It's just not worth it.


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## BunnySlippers (Oct 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
You're right. Everytime I bring it up she gets all emotional. She wants to keep dd. But her husband needs to keep away. Period. There have been way too many on going things with him.

Here's the thing: When gramma and her husband are home alone, her husband lays in the bedroom and watches tv. All night. Gramma is in the living room or kitchen. She hardly ever see's husband. But when me/dd come over he hovers and won't leave dd alone. That on top of him letting dd touch him, staring while I'm changing her diaper (way in the past, he doesn't do that anymore) and some other things. He has no right to touch her at all....I don't like him. It's not a happy little family situation where he's "banned to his room with dd is over"....he stays in his room _until_ dd comes over. That's just one of the many things that's so wrong with him/this situation.

uhhh, why are you still taking your child over there?
It is so not worth it. Pcik grandma up and have her watch dd at your house if you need her services so bad. Otherwise, find some one else or press charges.


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## gsd1amommy (Apr 6, 2007)

I also don't understand why the husband is being "made" to stay in a back bedroom, in his own home, while your grandmother is watching your daughter. If you are so uncomfortable, why not have the grandma come to your house, alone?


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## LotusBirthMama (Jun 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gsd1amommy* 
I also don't understand why the husband is being "made" to stay in a back bedroom, in his own home, while your grandmother is watching your daughter. If you are so uncomfortable, why not have the grandma come to your house, alone?

I took her post to mean he chooses to stay in his room *except* when the child is there, and then he hovers.

OP, I don't know your history, but I think its really clear you need other arrangements. If your grandma's DH has a brain injury, then no amount of your talking to him will make a difference. He is physiologically unable to control his impulses, be they sexual or otherwise.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

I grew up with a brother who had a severe brain injury. There were many things that he just never "got" and it wasn't for lack of trying.

I think that keeping your daughter in that situation is asking for trouble.


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## fiorio (Aug 30, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Demeter9* 
If you don't feel comfy with this guy, you need to stop taking your child there.

I cannot politely express my opinion on your rules about men in general. Of course, you seem to be feeding your problem with men by keeping you and your child in constant contact with someone who reinforces your obvious already existing problem with men.

Since YOU are the only one in control of this situation, and YOU know that you have a problem, and YOU know that this man may be a problem and YOU know that gma could not possibly have the God-Like-Powers to watch him every moment......

You need to ask yourself why you are continuing to pertuate this situation.









:

I cannot understand how you can have a rule not allowing your DD to be alone with ANY male (including her half-brothers as I recall from a previous post) even if they have never given you a reason to mistrust them (other than the fact they have a penis), and yet still you continue to leave your DD in a home with someone behaving so inappropriately with her. FOR A YEAR!! How can you justify that?


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## Phoenix~Mama (Dec 24, 2007)

I don't think you are being sensitive. I know DP will tell the kids if they hit/brush his private area and he lets them know that is his private area and not to touch/kick/punch/whatever there.

Sometimes LO's can't help it, don't realize it because of where their height puts them, and I don't think it's a big deal to gently point it out to them about personal areas and to try to be careful around them.

If your grandmother's husband hasn't said anything... I'd likely take him aside and say it makes you uncomfortable to please not let it happen.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

I sincerely thank all of you for your input. I was afraid to come back to this thread thinking I'd be bashed. I took 2 xanexes 2 hours ago and worked up enough courage to look at this thread. To my surprise, you all have been very gentle and I thank you.

Gramma's Husband (GH) Gramma (G)

G loves my dd more than life itself. She has been dd's substitute mama while I work. If I ripped dd away from her it would litterally kill her. It would absolutely kill her. I know that she watches dd and her husband like a hawk. Yes, when G goes to the bathroom, dd goes with her. GH is never, ever, ever alone with dd....ever. Not out of eye's view.

G won't come to my house. She's a home-body. She's more comfy in her home...and just won't come to my house. It would completely put her out of her way anyway.

There have been 3 basic incidents IN a year. It hasn't been a constant year of inappropriate things. Everything has been fine until now...now that dd is walking. He drives me absolutely crazy...and I bitch on a regular basis about the stupid things he does (as does my G). i.e., when I'm visiting and dd cries, he _runs_ out from his bedroom to come play "hero"...like he can calm my child better than me







: when he knows it ticks me off. Just stupid impulsive things. He's like an excited puppy that can't control his excitement or something. G is on him all the time about something or another. He has my G so stressed out...it's a vacation for her to watch my dd. DD is low maintenence, very independent, happy go lucky kid and brings so much happiness to my G--instead of constant problems with her H.

G is on the same page as me. She agrees 100% with me. It's just that we will talk to GH...and the next day he's "forgotten" and does things anyway. G told me, "When dd starts potty training, I will take her in the bathroom and _lock_ the door so H doesn't accidentally wonder in...." She told me that before I could bring it up. She's on my level and knows there is _something_ wrong with her H....but we don't know what. That is why we take zero chances. Is he just stupid? Seeking attention? No common sense? No sense of what is appropriate? Or...a flat out pervert? We don't know. We know there's something not right with him which is why every safety precaution is put in place. _If_ there was any doubt on my G's part...there is no doubt now, now that I've told her what many of you have said. _Thanks to all of you and your input she KNOWS there is something wrong with her H and will be dragging him to the doctor to get him on different meds or something (as well as keeping him away from dd)._

I told my G that I'm sorry and I feel guilty and that I don't want to put a strain on her marriage (what little "marriage" she has, anyway) and offered to find other placement for dd. But, she's on my side and understands her H is hard to deal with. G is more like his mom than his wife--constantly mothering him on what's right and wrong. He's just weird I guess. I don't know.

It's a different situation. I'm around it all the time...there's no way to fully paint the picture to any of you. I know dd isn't in _harm_ or she would not go there. Anyway, I just needed to know from other mom's if this was inappropriate because I've honestly never seen men around kids...neither has my G. Thank you all for your input.

As a side note I know I'm the oddball around here with my rules about my daughter and boys/men. You haven't lived the life I have. The rules I have in place are what I believe in. I know that still won't keep her completely safe...but as her mom I think that's one of the many things I can do to prevent her to get hurt. Whether I'm right or wrong, this is a belief I'm very strong about. We all have our beliefs/parenting styles and I think we should all respect that. I know I'm guilty of jumping the gun/people about children being naked...and I'm sorry, I shouldn't do that and _won't_ do that in the future. I need to respect the parents with those beliefs...and others should have the same respect for my beliefs.

Yes I am in therapy...we're working on many issues. I had an appt today and am a bit upset cuz it's just hard to talk about things. Small steps. And in the midst of all the small steps of working through my past....the only thing I can do to allow me to sleep at night is enforce the rules I have for my dd. It's what _my_ mothering instincts tell me to do to protect my daughter. Maybe one day I'll get to be on the same level as most of you...maybe I won't. Only time will tell.

I type too much







sorry


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
G won't come to my house. She's a home-body. She's more comfy in her home...and just won't come to my house. It would completely put her out of her way anyway.
...

As a side note I know I'm the oddball around here with my rules about my daughter and boys/men. You haven't lived the life I have. The rules I have in place are what I believe in. I know that still won't keep her completely safe...but as her mom I think that's one of the many things I can do to prevent her to get hurt. Whether I'm right or wrong, this is a belief I'm very strong about. We all have our beliefs/parenting styles and I think we should all respect that. I know I'm guilty of jumping the gun/people about children being naked...and I'm sorry, I shouldn't do that and _won't_ do that in the future. I need to respect the parents with those beliefs...and others should have the same respect for my beliefs.

Yes I am in therapy...we're working on many issues. I had an appt today and am a bit upset cuz it's just hard to talk about things. Small steps. And in the midst of all the small steps of working through my past....the only thing I can do to allow me to sleep at night is enforce the rules I have for my dd. It's what _my_ mothering instincts tell me to do to protect my daughter. Maybe one day I'll get to be on the same level as most of you...maybe I won't. Only time will tell.

I type too much







sorry

If things with her husband don't get better maybe Grandma would be more willing to step out of her comfort zone and come to your house. It might be a big stretch, but if that is the only way she can maintain a relationship with your daughter it may be worth it to her.

My mom had rules about girls not being left alone with men. She grew up with those rules as well. I feel bad saying this... but it didn't matter. There were still opportunities for men to do things to me and my sister when we were little. I think that it gave my mother a false sense of security because there were always women around somewhere. I don't think that the rule is terrible, but I encourage you to pay a lot of attention anyway. It's so easy to have things happen in small stolen moments.









Therapy is good. I think therapy can help with many many problems. Good luck to you on your journey.


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
Gramma's Husband (GH) Gramma (G)

G loves my dd more than life itself. She has been dd's substitute mama while I work. If I ripped dd away from her it would litterally kill her. *It would absolutely kill her. I know that she watches dd and her husband like a hawk. Yes, when G goes to the bathroom, dd goes with her. GH is never, ever, ever alone with dd....ever. Not out of eye's view.*

*G won't come to my house. She's a home-body. She's more comfy in her home...and just won't come to my house. It would completely put her out of her way anyway.*
*
He drives me absolutely crazy*...and I bitch on a regular basis about the stupid things he does (as does my G). i.e., when I'm visiting and dd cries, he _runs_ out from his bedroom to come play "hero"...like he can calm my child better than me







: when he knows it ticks me off. Just stupid impulsive things. *He's like an excited puppy that can't control his excitement or something.* G is on him all the time about something or another. He has my G so stressed out...it's a vacation for her to watch my dd. DD is low maintenence, very independent, happy go lucky kid and brings so much happiness to my G--instead of constant problems with her H.
*
G is on the same page as me. She agrees 100% with me. It's just that we will talk to GH...and the next day he's "forgotten" and does things anyway.* *G told me, "When dd starts potty training, I will take her in the bathroom and lock the door so H doesn't accidentally wonder in...." She told me that before I could bring it up.* She's on my level and knows there is _something_ wrong with her H....but we don't know what. *That is why we take zero chances.* Is he just stupid? Seeking attention? No common sense? No sense of what is appropriate? Or..*.a flat out pervert?* We don't know. *We know there's something not right with him which is why every safety precaution is put in place.* *If there was any doubt on my G's part...there is no doubt now, now that I've told her what many of you have said.* _Thanks to all of you and your input she KNOWS there is something wrong with her H and will be dragging him to the doctor to get him on different meds or something (as well as keeping him away from dd)._

<snip>

It's a different situation. I'm around it all the time...there's no way to fully paint the picture to any of you. *I know dd isn't in harm or she would not go there.* Anyway, I just needed to know from other mom's if this was inappropriate because I've honestly never seen men around kids...neither has my G. Thank you all for your input.

As a side note I know I'm the oddball around here with *my rules about my daughter and boys/men.* You haven't lived the life I have. The rules I have in place are what I believe in. *I know that still won't keep her completely safe...but as her mom I think that's one of the many things I can do to prevent her to get hurt.* Whether I'm right or wrong, this is a belief I'm very strong about. We all have our beliefs/parenting styles and I think we should all respect that. I know I'm guilty of jumping the gun/people about children being naked...and I'm sorry, I shouldn't do that and _won't_ do that in the future. I need to respect the parents with those beliefs...and others should have the same respect for my beliefs.

Yes I am in therapy...we're working on many issues. I had an appt today and am a bit upset cuz it's just hard to talk about things. Small steps. And in the midst of all the small steps of working through my past....the only thing I can do to allow me to sleep at night is enforce the rules I have for my dd. It's what _my_ mothering instincts tell me to do to protect my daughter. Maybe one day I'll get to be on the same level as most of you...maybe I won't. Only time will tell.

I type too much







sorry


OMG WHY ARE YOU STILL SENDING HER OVER THERE??????????????????

Why oh Why oh why are you doing this to your daughter?

Can't you see how screwed up this is? You wont ask G to step out of her comfort zone in order to assure your daughter's safety???????
You will let your dd go into this f'd up situation but will not allow her around other men??????????????????

I am SO confused.

Is free child care really worth it?

OMG I am getting angry....

If you had to take xanax before looking at the responses on this thread then that tells me right there that you REALIZE JUST HOW WRONG THIS IS TO DO THIS TO YOUR POOR DEFENSELESS BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!

If he does anything to her then you are JUST as responsible for it as he is. I hope you are willing to live with that. I guess your little dd doesn't have a choice.







:

.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dubfam* 
OMG WHY ARE YOU STILL SENDING HER OVER THERE??????????????????

Why oh Why oh why are you doing this to your daughter?

Can't you see how screwed up this is? You wont ask G to step out of her comfort zone in order to assure your daughter's safety???????
You will let your dd go into this f'd up situation but will not allow her around other men??????????????????

I am SO confused.

Is free child care really worth it?

OMG I am getting angry....

If you had to take xanax before looking at the responses on this thread then that tells me right there that you REALIZE JUST HOW WRONG THIS IS TO DO THIS TO YOUR POOR DEFENSELESS BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!

If he does anything to her then you are JUST as responsible for it as he is. I hope you are willing to live with that. I guess your little dd doesn't have a choice.







:

.


*He's not alone with dd.* And after last night's conversation he will not be anywhere near her, period. She is safe, I assure you...or she wouldn't be going over there as I stated. As paranoid as I am do you honestly think I'd put her in a situation where I thought she was going to get hurt? Come on now. DD's dad is a COP...do you honestly think that if there was a threat to his child he'd allow dd to be over there? *I never thought she would be hurt because there has never been an opportunity for her to be hurt...and there never will be.* She's safe. He's an idiot...but she is (and always has been) safe. My only question was whether or not his actions were appropriate. They've been answered.


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## baltic_ballet (May 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
I sincerely thank all of you for your input. I was afraid to come back to this thread thinking I'd be bashed. I took 2 xanexes 2 hours ago and worked up enough courage to look at this thread. To my surprise, you all have been very gentle and I thank you.

Gramma's Husband (GH) Gramma (G)

G loves my dd more than life itself. She has been dd's substitute mama while I work. If I ripped dd away from her it would litterally kill her. It would absolutely kill her. I know that she watches dd and her husband like a hawk. Yes, when G goes to the bathroom, dd goes with her. GH is never, ever, ever alone with dd....ever. Not out of eye's view.

G won't come to my house. She's a home-body. She's more comfy in her home...and just won't come to my house. It would completely put her out of her way anyway.

There have been 3 basic incidents IN a year. It hasn't been a constant year of inappropriate things. Everything has been fine until now...now that dd is walking. He drives me absolutely crazy...and I bitch on a regular basis about the stupid things he does (as does my G). i.e., when I'm visiting and dd cries, he _runs_ out from his bedroom to come play "hero"...like he can calm my child better than me







: when he knows it ticks me off. Just stupid impulsive things. He's like an excited puppy that can't control his excitement or something. G is on him all the time about something or another. He has my G so stressed out...it's a vacation for her to watch my dd. DD is low maintenence, very independent, happy go lucky kid and brings so much happiness to my G--instead of constant problems with her H.

G is on the same page as me. She agrees 100% with me. It's just that we will talk to GH...and the next day he's "forgotten" and does things anyway. G told me, "When dd starts potty training, I will take her in the bathroom and _lock_ the door so H doesn't accidentally wonder in...." She told me that before I could bring it up. She's on my level and knows there is _something_ wrong with her H....but we don't know what. That is why we take zero chances. Is he just stupid? Seeking attention? No common sense? No sense of what is appropriate? Or...a flat out pervert? We don't know. We know there's something not right with him which is why every safety precaution is put in place. _If_ there was any doubt on my G's part...there is no doubt now, now that I've told her what many of you have said. _Thanks to all of you and your input she KNOWS there is something wrong with her H and will be dragging him to the doctor to get him on different meds or something (as well as keeping him away from dd)._

I told my G that I'm sorry and I feel guilty and that I don't want to put a strain on her marriage (what little "marriage" she has, anyway) and offered to find other placement for dd. But, she's on my side and understands her H is hard to deal with. G is more like his mom than his wife--constantly mothering him on what's right and wrong. He's just weird I guess. I don't know.

It's a different situation. I'm around it all the time...there's no way to fully paint the picture to any of you. I know dd isn't in _harm_ or she would not go there. Anyway, I just needed to know from other mom's if this was inappropriate because I've honestly never seen men around kids...neither has my G. Thank you all for your input.

As a side note I know I'm the oddball around here with my rules about my daughter and boys/men. You haven't lived the life I have. The rules I have in place are what I believe in. I know that still won't keep her completely safe...but as her mom I think that's one of the many things I can do to prevent her to get hurt. Whether I'm right or wrong, this is a belief I'm very strong about. We all have our beliefs/parenting styles and I think we should all respect that. I know I'm guilty of jumping the gun/people about children being naked...and I'm sorry, I shouldn't do that and _won't_ do that in the future. I need to respect the parents with those beliefs...and others should have the same respect for my beliefs.

Yes I am in therapy...we're working on many issues. I had an appt today and am a bit upset cuz it's just hard to talk about things. Small steps. And in the midst of all the small steps of working through my past....the only thing I can do to allow me to sleep at night is enforce the rules I have for my dd. It's what _my_ mothering instincts tell me to do to protect my daughter. Maybe one day I'll get to be on the same level as most of you...maybe I won't. Only time will tell.

I type too much







sorry

I hope the therapy works for you and I hope and pray nothing ever happens to you precious DD.

Personally I would be making other child care arrangements but that's my opinion

I also don't think it would be an ideal way to potty train your dd, it takes a while for children to learn bowel and balder control and your poor dd will have to wait til grandma takes her into the bathroom and locks the door. My kids would run to the potty and pull their pants down straight away or sometimes would sit on the potty (nothing happening) til they got bored then run off and play


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## GalateaDunkel (Jul 22, 2005)

I am confused because this seems to have come up a number of times on MDC over the past months/years...

what are these unspecified "brain injuries" that supposedly turn men into instant pedophiles? I'm not denying that it can happen, or has happened in this instance... but in general, why does it seem like when someone posts saying "I have a bad feeling about so and so, plus he has a *brain injury*" everyone is always like "oh yeah, brain injury! pedophile! happens all the time!"

I don't know... it seems ableist, or something.

And FWIW, a lot of times when a child innocently creates an awkward situation, adults may ignore it because they don't want to seem interested - in fact there have been threads here recently trashing people for not ignoring a child's nudity, etc. - or because they don't want to shame the child. I would feel pretty inappropriate if I trotted out a speech about "private parts" every time my toddler bumped into my crotch.


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## baltic_ballet (May 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
I sincerely thank all of you for your input. I was afraid to come back to this thread thinking I'd be bashed. I took 2 xanexes 2 hours ago and worked up enough courage to look at this thread. To my surprise, you all have been very gentle and I thank you.

Gramma's Husband (GH) Gramma (G)

G loves my dd more than life itself. She has been dd's substitute mama while I work. If I ripped dd away from her it would litterally kill her. It would absolutely kill her. I know that she watches dd and her husband like a hawk. Yes, when G goes to the bathroom, dd goes with her. GH is never, ever, ever alone with dd....ever. Not out of eye's view.

G won't come to my house. She's a home-body. She's more comfy in her home...and just won't come to my house. It would completely put her out of her way anyway.

There have been 3 basic incidents IN a year. It hasn't been a constant year of inappropriate things. Everything has been fine until now...now that dd is walking. He drives me absolutely crazy...and I bitch on a regular basis about the stupid things he does (as does my G). i.e., when I'm visiting and dd cries, he _runs_ out from his bedroom to come play "hero"...like he can calm my child better than me







: when he knows it ticks me off. Just stupid impulsive things. He's like an excited puppy that can't control his excitement or something. G is on him all the time about something or another. He has my G so stressed out...it's a vacation for her to watch my dd. DD is low maintenence, very independent, happy go lucky kid and brings so much happiness to my G--instead of constant problems with her H.

G is on the same page as me. She agrees 100% with me. It's just that we will talk to GH...and the next day he's "forgotten" and does things anyway. G told me, "When dd starts potty training, I will take her in the bathroom and _lock_ the door so H doesn't accidentally wonder in...." She told me that before I could bring it up. She's on my level and knows there is _something_ wrong with her H....but we don't know what. That is why we take zero chances. Is he just stupid? Seeking attention? No common sense? No sense of what is appropriate? Or...a flat out pervert? We don't know. We know there's something not right with him which is why every safety precaution is put in place. _If_ there was any doubt on my G's part...there is no doubt now, now that I've told her what many of you have said. _Thanks to all of you and your input she KNOWS there is something wrong with her H and will be dragging him to the doctor to get him on different meds or something (as well as keeping him away from dd)._

I told my G that I'm sorry and I feel guilty and that I don't want to put a strain on her marriage (what little "marriage" she has, anyway) and offered to find other placement for dd. But, she's on my side and understands her H is hard to deal with. G is more like his mom than his wife--constantly mothering him on what's right and wrong. He's just weird I guess. I don't know.

It's a different situation. I'm around it all the time...there's no way to fully paint the picture to any of you. I know dd isn't in _harm_ or she would not go there. Anyway, I just needed to know from other mom's if this was inappropriate because I've honestly never seen men around kids...neither has my G. Thank you all for your input.

As a side note I know I'm the oddball around here with my rules about my daughter and boys/men. You haven't lived the life I have. The rules I have in place are what I believe in. I know that still won't keep her completely safe...but as her mom I think that's one of the many things I can do to prevent her to get hurt. Whether I'm right or wrong, this is a belief I'm very strong about. We all have our beliefs/parenting styles and I think we should all respect that. I know I'm guilty of jumping the gun/people about children being naked...and I'm sorry, I shouldn't do that and _won't_ do that in the future. I need to respect the parents with those beliefs...and others should have the same respect for my beliefs.

Yes I am in therapy...we're working on many issues. I had an appt today and am a bit upset cuz it's just hard to talk about things. Small steps. And in the midst of all the small steps of working through my past....the only thing I can do to allow me to sleep at night is enforce the rules I have for my dd. It's what _my_ mothering instincts tell me to do to protect my daughter. Maybe one day I'll get to be on the same level as most of you...maybe I won't. Only time will tell.

I type too much







sorry

Re-reading this post; something about this situation and all your other replies still dose not feel right to me. I have re-read you posts several times and alarm bells are ringing - I may be being an alarmist but frankly something is not right.

*BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY*


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## Viewfinder (Sep 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
The rules I have in place are what I believe in. I know that still won't keep her completely safe...but as her mom I think that's one of the many things I can do to prevent her to get hurt. Whether I'm right or wrong, this is a belief I'm very strong about. We all have our beliefs/parenting styles and I think we should all respect that.

Exactly. I am 100% behind you and I'm sure plenty of others are, too. Many remarks have been made where I'm wondering, as I'm sure you are, "Didn't this person read what I said?"

Some folks get all fired up about this issue and get all defensive about the generalizations that are made about men and boys... and it's okay. It makes me laugh and I wonder if I could recognize these folks in the grocery store, the ones who are aghast that you'd continue to have your child at your grammy's with the GH there, AND who are at the same time totally insulting about the issues that you may have with regards to men and how wrong it is for you to have those issues and how you need therapy to wash those issues away *right now* so your child can experience the nirvana of being alone with men during her toddlerhood. Give me a break!

You've kept a cool head about it, you've been open and honest and revealing, and very gracious considering the venom of some posters. You are clearly a loving and protective parent, and you have a loving and protective grammy who has all her wits about her and who loves and cares for your child.

And to the posters to whom I refer, I say: reread May's posts. It's all there. Grandma WANTS to sit the child, Grandma protects the child according to mama's wishes, and in fact, her own common sense. Grandma is a youthful 60 and capable of childcare at the stringent level required with a dodgy man present. May has issues with men being ALONE with her baby girl that she probably didn't ASK for, iykwim. And, "therapy" isn't a PILL that works instantly; it may take YEARS or DECADES to overcome some "issues" with men, and that's just where it's at, folks. She's working on it. In the meantime, it's best for all concerned for May to be the best mother SHE can be, and that means, no men/boys alone with her child right now.

VF


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

Quote:

G loves my dd more than life itself. She has been dd's substitute mama while I work. If I ripped dd away from her it would litterally kill her.
Your first priority is your CHILD.

Quote:

G won't come to my house. She's a home-body. She's more comfy in her home...and just won't come to my house. It would completely put her out of her way anyway
It would put her out? To protect the grandaughter she loves more than life itself?


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

*Thank you very much, Viewfinder.* On such a diverse board with so many people wanting acceptance from the mainstream because of their different ways of parenting--whether it be queer parenting, unschooling, not vaxing, or anything in between--the same group of people are so quick to jump on me for my different ways of parenting. Talk about double standards. Somehow, I think that if I had 2 boyfriends and we all slept naked with my daughter, that would be more accepted than the 2 rules I do have in place...not allowing my dd to be alone with a man (for now, at least until she can talk) and that men/boys don't see her naked. I'm not harming her. She's not being damaged. She's being protected by a very protective mama....so why are so many of you on me? Back off. *You (as a whole) expect (or want) people to accept your beliefs--show the same respect for other mama's who may have a different view from you.*

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
I am confused because this seems to have come up a number of times on MDC over the past months/years...

what are these unspecified "brain injuries" that supposedly turn men into instant pedophiles? I'm not denying that it can happen, or has happened in this instance... but in general, why does it seem like when someone posts saying "I have a bad feeling about so and so, plus he has a *brain injury*" everyone is always like "oh yeah, brain injury! pedophile! happens all the time!"

He has frontal lobe damage. That part of the brain has to do with impulse control. He's impulsive with many things. I'm not saying he has a brain injury therefore he is a predator. I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying (or have been trying to say














is that he has a brain injury so I don't know if what he's doing (or not doing) is, and I quote myself:

Quote:

Is he just stupid? Seeking attention? No common sense? No sense of what is appropriate? Or...a flat out pervert? We don't know.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
And FWIW, a lot of times when a child innocently creates an awkward situation, adults may ignore it because they don't want to seem interested - in fact there have been threads here recently trashing people for not ignoring a child's nudity, etc. - or because they don't want to shame the child. I would feel pretty inappropriate if I trotted out a speech about "private parts" every time my toddler bumped into my crotch.

First I'd just like to quote myself again:

Quote:

I know I'm guilty of jumping the gun/people about children being naked...and I'm sorry, I shouldn't do that and won't do that in the future. I need to respect the parents with those beliefs...and others should have the same respect for my beliefs.
It's not a matter of bumping into his crotch. It's something that has happened on more than one occasion and he does nothing about it...until we say something and I DO say something. This is why I asked for all of your opinions to see if I was being too senstive or not (have I mentioned that like 4 times now? I think so).

After my last post, I called my gramma. I made her cry because of all these posts making me 2nd my judgement. She is not going to let anything happen to my dd. She would kill her husband before she let anything happen (she might kill him anyway, he stresses her so badly). I told her again, "I don't want to keep causing you stress. I think I'll just find another place for dd to go. I don't want to put a strain on your marriage or stress you out..." She cries and yells at me and says, "It's not you, it's HIM and his ignorance! He needs to just stay the hell away from dd. Period." And that is what is happening. Period. He's staying away. G will be talking to his mother about this matter and she's making an appt to talk to her male GP to get his take on things as well. In addition, she will go WITH her H to his next neuologist appt and explain all of this...get to the bottom of why he does it--if it's just impulsive, stupid, or what.

As stated a couple times, neither G or I have seen men around little ones. We don't know what the norm is (which is exactly why I asked for all of your opinions...as stated again and again). SOME of you simply gave me your answers, thank you, and I took that info and passed it on to G. G never had biological kids. My mom and I came into G's life with I was 15 months. There weren't men around. I'm the closest thing she has to a "child"...she's watched me grow up. She's been more of a mom to me than my mother. And now she has the absolute joy of watching my dd grow up. I will not take that away from her. She will kick her husband out of the house before dd is taken from her (she even said so--if he bothers dd again, she will make him go to his mom's/sisters or whereever while dd is there).

*My kid is not in any harm. She will stay at my G's house. She is safe there. Her H will stay the heck away from my dd. Period. We know there is some sort of problem, we are addressing it.*

*Now, if anyone would like to add their input from my original question of what's appropriate or not....please feel free.* Othewise back the heck off of me...unless you like it when people jump you over your parenting style/decisions. Again with the double standards--so many of you want acceptance because of your differences....give another mama the same respect, huh?


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## momz3 (May 1, 2006)

I am positive that you will make the best decision for your dd, I'm sorry if you felt pounced on, I hope my post didn't come off that way at all!


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
I am confused because this seems to have come up a number of times on MDC over the past months/years...

what are these unspecified "brain injuries" that supposedly turn men into instant pedophiles? I'm not denying that it can happen, or has happened in this instance... but in general, why does it seem like when someone posts saying "I have a bad feeling about so and so, plus he has a *brain injury*" everyone is always like "oh yeah, brain injury! pedophile! happens all the time!"

I don't know... it seems ableist, or something.

And FWIW, a lot of times when a child innocently creates an awkward situation, adults may ignore it because they don't want to seem interested - in fact there have been threads here recently trashing people for not ignoring a child's nudity, etc. - or because they don't want to shame the child. I would feel pretty inappropriate if I trotted out a speech about "private parts" every time my toddler bumped into my crotch.

I agree about the pedophilic aspects. But she said that he has impulse control issues (I'm assuming that's official), and around young children, there are a lot of areas that impulse control is necessary:

- to not yell at the child
- to not hit the child if something happens (with toddlers, things happen!)
- not to have other unsafe situations arising: accidentally setting fires, leaving out dangerous tools, a million and one ways that we rein in our impulses to keep our environment and kids safe.

OP, I understand that you are very invested in this situation. But let me put it to you this way.

Suppose that you were looking at day care centres and one told you:

50% of the adults on the premises cannot be trusted to look after small children because they have issues. The other 50% who are the caregivers will never get breaks, be able to be on the phone, answer the door, empty the trash, or to go to the bathroom without having to make sure that your mobile, curious, exploring child is contained in some way.

And oh, in this environment with the adults with issues, we have all the usual things people have at home: stoves, tools, matches, knives, scissors, and so forth.

Would you leave your child there?


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## EnviroBecca (Jun 5, 2002)

My partner will let a child be in contact with his genitals through clothing if:
1. It's not painful or uncomfortable for him.
2. He is not at all aroused for any reason.
He probably would let contact continue, for a short time, in the situations you mention. HOWEVER, if you ever spoke to him and said that for your peace of mind you wanted him not to allow this and to redirect your child immediately, he would do that. Probably he wouldn't even be offended that you might be thinking he was a predator (after all, these are situations in which your kid is touching him, not vice versa) and just think you are more sensitive than he is to being weirded out by the idea of a baby fondling somebody's privates. He would respect your sensitivity. I think he is a pretty normal man.









Sounds to me like this issue is just one of many red flags about GH and like G is afraid of this man herself. You may be doing her a favor by nudging her to get him out of her home.


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## leighann79 (Aug 4, 2005)

My DH wouldn't move his own child in many of those situations as long as it didn't hurt or inadvertantly arouse him. Someone else's child he may remove sooner.
Once a person has been asked to not let the child do that, he/she should be able to follow the parent's wishes.

He can't or won't. I think your Grandma is doing the right thing in really looking into which it is in this case.

You and her are not just following your ideas of what is going on. You are looking into it and asking professional opinions. That is more than many parents do.

(((hugs))) and I'm sure you and your Grandma will do everything you can to help your DD grow up healthy and happy.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
I am confused because this seems to have come up a number of times on MDC over the past months/years...

what are these unspecified "brain injuries" that supposedly turn men into instant pedophiles? I'm not denying that it can happen, or has happened in this instance... but in general, why does it seem like when someone posts saying "I have a bad feeling about so and so, plus he has a *brain injury*" everyone is always like "oh yeah, brain injury! pedophile! happens all the time!"

I don't know... it seems ableist, or something.

I haven't been reading MDC long enough to have seen a pattern. I can't address what other people are talking about, but when I said that people with brain injuries are not very good at controlling their actions I am speaking from the experience of growing up with a brother who had a Severe Traumatic Brain Injury and who required care from the day of his accident to the day of his death. I lived around hospitals for the brain injured through most of my childhood. I do have a fair bit of experience on this topic.

In those facilities as a young girl I was attacked by male patients quite a few times. My brother tried to rape me. It isn't that all people with brain injuries act this way--I'm well aware of that--but that if a brain injured male is behaving in a way that feels kind of creepy and sexual I have had enough experience to watch that like a hawk and be cautious. I don't think that is being ableist, I think that is learning from my experiences.


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

Nobody has the God Like Powers to assure that your child will be protected from a member of the household you are leaving them in. No one.

Not you. Not a gma. Not Superman with XRay Vision.

If this man is causing you issues, and you suspect he has a problem there is NO WAY that the gma could possibly assure that nothing happens

I GUARANTEE that if you ask around about the women on here who have mothers and grandmothers who THOUGHT that they could protect them from a household member when they were young, you will find that their mothers and grandmothers (aunts, family friends.....) were wrong ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of the time.

You have a strict rule about men that you defend even though it may not be rational and exists without any specific reason.

But when faced with an ACTUAL real present observed known danger, you refuse to act.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

May, I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for.

I agreee with you that this whole situation has a vague yucky feelinga bout it, and that you're not being overly sensitive.

You've said that you've addressed the problem numerous times and it keeps continueing.

You've implied that you can't really rest comfortably taking the baby over there and leaving her on a regular basis.

On the other hand, you say Gramma loves the baby and would never let anything happen to her while you're gone.

You seem to completely trust that your Gramma will take good care of your Baby while you're gone.

You're Gramma would be torn up inside if not able to see your baby, and your baby is the light of her life, and you don't want to take that away from her.

You're Gramma seems to want whatever ist he absolute best for her.

BUT on the other side of THAT coin, Gramma is not willing to help you put your mind at ease and put the little baby completely out of harms way by coming to your house to babysit in substitution for the current arrangements.

I'm sure pregnancy is borrowing some of my brain cells right now, but....








.....

I'm confused. If you completely trust Gramma to keep the kiddo out of harms way while you're not there, what's the problem?

What exactly is it that you are looking for from us?
Every option the posters have mentioned has been crossed out in your book. What else is there?

I think you know what you need to do, but you are trying to justify it all away, which is an understandable reaction, but one you need to work past.

(and from recent personal experience, I think (especially with potty training around the corner, as a pp mentioned) this situation with gramma's husband has the potential of getting worse before it can get better....)


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Demeter9* 
You have a strict rule about men that you defend even though it may not be rational and exists without any specific reason.

But when faced with an ACTUAL real present observed known danger, you refuse to act.

This. This is what shows that your decision-making skills seem to be impaired by your life's experiences. Leaving a child in a household with someone you find scary and not trustworthy is not a sound decision. No matter how careful the caregiver is.

And "protecting" your child from half the population of the planet by NEVER allowing her to be with them or have relationships with them- with NO reason at all is not a sound decision. No matter how traumatic your past.

-Angela


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
At least I know I'm not being sensitive, thank you. It's my gramma's husband. He is never alone with her. Never. But, gramma watches dd a couple days/week and we visit over there. He has a frontal lobe brain injury--impulse control problems, being child-like, etc.

Okay - this strikes home with me way too hard. I was molested by my grandfather...after he suffered a brain hemorrhage, which affected many of the things you're talking about here. His sense of right and wrong, _especially_ where sexual issues were concerned, was profoundly affected by the damage.

I strongly suggest putting an end to having your grandma babysit. My grandfather was physically incapable of forcing us, and he was also incapable of luring in victims, or setting up scenarios where he had children available to molest. My grandmother, however, was perfectly capable of making sure the grandchildren were available for him, and she did so. She bought us off with candy, encouraged us to lie and never let a hint of the problem show to my mom. (The truth came out when my brother spent the night at the same time we did once. We normally alternated weekends, and my brother is 5 years older, so he was able to pick up on some oddities about the dynamic when we were there...and to bring them up to my moml.)

I have no idea if your grandma's husband is anything like my grandfather, but your above post obviously hit my triggers.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GalateaDunkel* 
what are these unspecified "brain injuries" that supposedly turn men into instant pedophiles? I'm not denying that it can happen, or has happened in this instance... but in general, why does it seem like when someone posts saying "I have a bad feeling about so and so, plus he has a *brain injury*" everyone is always like "oh yeah, brain injury! pedophile! happens all the time!"

I don't know... it seems ableist, or something.

I don't know that it happens "all the time", but it happens. In my grandfather's case, he had a hemorrhage - I'd guess an aneurysm, but all the family was told (this _was_ almost 40 years ago) was that it was a hemorrhage. Brain injuries can affect impulse control, and affect the way someone processes social norms (a friend of my mom's, after a stroke, would swear in church, for example)...that's not "ableist" - it's a sad reality. Brain injuries can do some really weird things.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EnviroBecca* 
My partner will let a child be in contact with his genitals through clothing if:
1. It's not painful or uncomfortable for him.
2. He is not at all aroused for any reason.
He probably would let contact continue, for a short time, in the situations you mention. HOWEVER, if you ever spoke to him and said that for your peace of mind you wanted him not to allow this and to redirect your child immediately, he would do that.

That's about where I stand, and how I would handle it if it were _my_ genitals in questions.

May...I have to say that the more you post about your grandmother, the more my triggers are hit. She loves your dd so much that she'll "kill her husband" if she has to. She loves your dd so much that she'll leave her husband if she has to. But, she doesn't love your dd enough to come and look after her somewhere _away_ from her husband, because she likes to be at her own home?

If things are that bad in her marriage, then leaving probably wouldn't be a bad idea. But, to stay with him, while saying that she'll leave him because of your dd, while _still_ looking after your dd in a house that he's in is totally illogical.

Oh - and my grandmother would flip out and cry and be absolutely heartbroken if anyone talked about taking us away from her, too. That has nothing to do with what's best for the _children_ in a situation like this.


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## sunkissedmumma67 (Jul 9, 2007)

Hey, Maybaby2007, It's NOT APPROPRIATE AT ALL!







Your definetly not being too sensitive! It sounds like all in all this is a very unhealthy situation for your dd to be in, (man with brain injury, inappropriate actions with dd, impluse control issues, gramma stressed out, over emotional over situation, yelling, crying, ect.) I would say get dd out of that situation immediately! It's good that you and gramma are addressing this situation, but you should have dd out of there while your doing it! Oh and as stormbride said your grammas behavior is very illogical! Actions speak louder than words, if gramma means what she says and cares so much about your dd, she would whatch her at your house, to keep her away from her husband! It's sad







it sounds like neither you or gramma is willing to put your dd daughter first, ( your putting you and your gramma first, and grammas putting herself, first) DD is first!







:


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## guestmama9915 (Jul 29, 2004)

Things happen. There is no way to be sure that something might come up and your child is unwatched for a moment. And that's all it takes to forever scar someone, just a tiny little moment.


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## CtMom (Jan 14, 2003)

I am with the other posters who wonder whether if you presented your G with the choice of either:

1. Watching your daughter at your house with GH; or
2. Not getting to watch your daughter at all;

Why she would not choose #1? It's such an easy solution and addresses all of your concerns. And it seems as if it would be kind to G as she would only have the responsibility of watching only your daughter instead of your daughter AND GH.

Just curious and trying not to judge, but it seems so obvious.


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## CtMom (Jan 14, 2003)

Please mentally correct the last post to read:

1. Watching your daughter at your house WITHOUT GH; or


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
*I never thought she would be hurt because there has never been an opportunity for her to be hurt...and there never will be.*

That is the single most dangerous belief you could hold about your daughter.

I don't know how to make that clear to you.

Edited to add: Yes, GH not moving when your daughter bumps into his crotch after you've expressed discomfort is inappropriate, I totally agree there.


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## nomadmom (Mar 30, 2003)

I know it's unlikely, but what if your g'ma was injured or became ill while your dd was in her care? You have to be able to trust that *anyone* in the house would have your dd's best interests in mind when you're not there.


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## bellacymom (Apr 3, 2008)

OMG! Maybaby at this point in this thread I am really feeling sorry for you. I bet you are about to pull your hair out! My advice now? There is way too much advice in this thread for one person to comprehend so go with your gut even if it is over reacting. You are your DD's mom so you have the right to over react if something makes you uncomfortable.







I hope you get everything worked out without hurt feelings or more frustration on your part.


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## Heavenly (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nomadmom* 
I know it's unlikely, but what if your g'ma was injured or became ill while your dd was in her care? You have to be able to trust that *anyone* in the house would have your dd's best interests in mind when you're not there.

Exactly! What if Grandma gets a sudden stomach flu and has to run to the bathroom to vomit. Do you really think she is going to grab your daughter and take her with her to watch her vomit? You absolutely CANNOT know that this man will never be alone with your daughter. Period. I pray to God that we never have to read a post here from you talking about your daughter was molested.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bellacymom* 
OMG! Maybaby at this point in this thread I am really feeling sorry for you. I bet you are about to pull your hair out! My advice now? There is way too much advice in this thread for one person to comprehend so go with your gut even if it is over reacting. You are your DD's mom so you have the right to over react if something makes you uncomfortable.







I hope you get everything worked out without hurt feelings or more frustration on your part.

Actually I've found the advice in this thread to be one of the most consistent ever on MDC. Pretty much everyone agrees the care situation is dangerous and needs to change, whatever the other details.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Ya'll are right. I will constantly be stressed and worried about this. The guilt I will have from causing G so much pain will be better than constantly worrying about dd. G will either have to come to my house (and I know she won't), send her H away while dd is there (which is unfair to him), or I'll have to find someone else all together--which will take time. DD's dad is "on call" 24/7 with his job...he can't at the moment keep her overnight--and I'm not ready for that anyway (I trust him...but not ready for that, complicated situation). I'll try to bring her to work with me until I make other arrangements, which is dangerous in itself--considering I was robbed last year while pregnant with her. But at this point I think I'd rather do that than to have constant worry about GH.

I've lived in my house for 2 years...G has been there about 4 times. She doesn't like to drive and will not drive at night. I work in the same town as she lives--I'd burn 1/4 tank of gas per day if I drove her to/from my house.

I'm comfy with knowing G will keep GH away from dd...but as so many of you have pointed out, things can happen in the blink of an eye. I wish all of you could sit down with me to explain this to my G...make her totally understand. She gets hurt for many reasons...and thinks I don't trust _her_. I trust her and I trust she'd keep dd safe. I don't trust her H and don't want him around my kid. This could seriously cause her to have a stroke/heart attack. Seriously. But I don't know what else to do. Crap. This will be hard.


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## baltic_ballet (May 17, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
Ya'll are right. I will constantly be stressed and worried about this. The guilt I will have from causing G so much pain will be better than constantly worrying about dd. G will either have to come to my house (and I know she won't), send her H away while dd is there (which is unfair to him), or I'll have to find someone else all together--which will take time. DD's dad is "on call" 24/7 with his job...he can't at the moment keep her overnight--and I'm not ready for that anyway (I trust him...but not ready for that, complicated situation). I'll try to bring her to work with me until I make other arrangements, which is dangerous in itself--considering I was robbed last year while pregnant with her. But at this point I think I'd rather do that than to have constant worry about GH.

I've lived in my house for 2 years...G has been there about 4 times. She doesn't like to drive and will not drive at night. I work in the same town as she lives--I'd burn 1/4 tank of gas per day if I drove her to/from my house.

I'm comfy with knowing G will keep GH away from dd...but as so many of you have pointed out, things can happen in the blink of an eye. I wish all of you could sit down with me to explain this to my G...make her totally understand. She gets hurt for many reasons...and thinks I don't trust _her_. I trust her and I trust she'd keep dd safe. I don't trust her H and don't want him around my kid. This could seriously cause her to have a stroke/heart attack. Seriously. But I don't know what else to do. Crap. This will be hard.

I wish you and your daughter all the best and hope you are able come to a suitable arrangement soon.

Sam


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
Just stupid impulsive things. He's like an excited puppy that can't control his excitement or something. G is on him all the time about something or another. He has my G so stressed out

With a frontal lobe injury this is unlikely to EVER change. You have to realize that this is PERMANENT and that he won't be able to trusted to behave appropriately. Lack of common sense, memory issues and no sense of what's appropriate are all hallmarks of frontal lobe injuries.

Quote:

...it's a vacation for her to watch my dd. DD is low maintenence, very independent, happy go lucky kid and brings so much happiness to my G
I'm sure your dd brings happiness to your grandmother. BUT she also brings added stress and responsibility -- do you really want to add that to her? You can still bring your dd over regularly since then there will be two competent adults to watch her. You can bring grandma over to your house starting once a month and building up to once a week -- starting with short periods of time (and hour) so she becomes comfortable there. (She needs a break from her husband too.)


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
Ya'll are right. I will constantly be stressed and worried about this. The guilt I will have from causing G so much pain will be better than constantly worrying about dd. G will either have to come to my house (and I know she won't), send her H away while dd is there (which is unfair to him), or I'll have to find someone else all together--which will take time. DD's dad is "on call" 24/7 with his job...he can't at the moment keep her overnight--and I'm not ready for that anyway (I trust him...but not ready for that, complicated situation). I'll try to bring her to work with me until I make other arrangements, which is dangerous in itself--considering I was robbed last year while pregnant with her. But at this point I think I'd rather do that than to have constant worry about GH.

I've lived in my house for 2 years...G has been there about 4 times. She doesn't like to drive and will not drive at night. I work in the same town as she lives--I'd burn 1/4 tank of gas per day if I drove her to/from my house.

I'm comfy with knowing G will keep GH away from dd...but as so many of you have pointed out, things can happen in the blink of an eye. I wish all of you could sit down with me to explain this to my G...make her totally understand. She gets hurt for many reasons...and thinks I don't trust _her_. I trust her and I trust she'd keep dd safe. I don't trust her H and don't want him around my kid. This could seriously cause her to have a stroke/heart attack. Seriously. But I don't know what else to do. Crap. This will be hard.











I wish there was some magic arrangement I could make up that would allow G to come to your home or to make something else work for you.

Are ya absolutely sure there is no way you guys could maneuver, switch stuff around, or somesuch to allow G to come keep her at your house? How far is it away?


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## prothyraia (Feb 12, 2007)




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## KSD (Apr 30, 2008)

I think that you should decide where your level of comfort is... Does Grandmothers husbands other actions with DD concern you? Does he display an unnatural level of interaction with DD that is very physical, excessive touching, tickling or such?

Second, find a different child care situation no matter what you decide about you comfort level --- because you need to let this go and move on for YOURSELF. If you don't this could just eat you up and fester inside your spirit making you bitter towards him, Grandmother, and others.

Third, you may be looking at this a little hard. From previous marriage, I showered with both DS, DD. DD and I stopped when she started getting tall enough to become an issue. DS and I didn't, in my on family I took my last bath with a cousin when I was about 10, she was about 9. So if your household has a healthy respect and display of body issues, you may be able to explain to DD when she can understand why it's not appropriate to touch people in certain area.

Our DD is just 7m, my 2 from ex are 18 (DS) and 16 (DD). Overall I think that 7m old will have a different view on body image and issues, thanks to her wonderful mother. We've talked about what we feel and that is making a big difference in how things will be handed in the future related to body image and what is an appropriate level of physical contact with others.

JMHO









Jeffrey


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

I am SO glad that you've reconsidered this!









Even though there is stress in this decision, in the long run I strongly believe you will find that this makes you less stressed and you will feel far better inside yourself about it.








s


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## Laggie (Nov 2, 2005)

Even if your grandma were able to keep your daughter from ever being molested by this man... she would still be experiencing a situation where mom and grandma don't trust grandma's husband and think he might be a pedophile... yet they allow this man to remain in their lives.

That in itself is incredibly damaging and perverted, imo. I realize that you're already raising your daughter to distrust men, so maybe you're okay with that being the lesson she takes from this - it's okay to have men whom you don't trust in your house, because they're all bad anyway. It makes me sick to type that, but that's what you're teaching if you allow this to continue.

Your daughter should be learning to listen to her gut and stay the heck away from men she doesn't trust. This is the absolute worst thing you could do, if you want her to learn that.


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## OhDang (Jan 30, 2008)

i wish you all the best and that dd is safe!


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## dubfam (Nov 4, 2005)

MayBaby2007,
I am really happy to hear that you are going to make other arrangements.

I know I may have come off as harsh in my last post, but I feel like this is an extreme situation.

I have family members who are pedophiles so I completely understand how weird this can be. My children are not around those family members at all...this includes my own father








It is difficult and awkward and so painful to have to keep my kids away from certain family members but that is just what I have to do.

Feel free to PM me if you want to....

Again, I am sorry if my last post hurt your feelings. I am just really concerned about you and your dd...to the extent that your situation has been on my mind when I go to sleep and when I first wake up.

I am so happy that you are seeing the importance of not having your dd around gh w/out you or her father being present.

Good For You!!!!!
You are choosing the more challenging (but right) path.

.


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Laggie* 
That in itself is incredibly damaging and perverted, imo. I realize that you're already raising your daughter to distrust men, so maybe you're okay with that being the lesson she takes from this - it's okay to have men whom you don't trust in your house, because they're all bad anyway. It makes me sick to type that, but that's what you're teaching if you allow this to continue.

Your daughter should be learning to listen to her gut and stay the heck away from men she doesn't trust. This is the absolute worst thing you could do, if you want her to learn that.









:

I think another unintended consequence is that, while she learns that men are the "bad" ones, she learns that women are the "good" ones. And that will mean to her that nothing a female does to her can be wrong. Which opens her up to the possibility of being molested by a woman. In general, it distresses me how many people think that that's a very unlikely possibility. Some of the most horrific stories of child molestation that I've heard about were perpetuated by women.


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## tbone_kneegrabber (Oct 16, 2007)

To answer your orignal question:

Ds stands on dp's clothed "private area" all the time, if it doesn't hurt he doesn't move him
Ds lays his head on dp's clothed "private area"
DS grabs at pubic hair in the bath tub (we stop this because OW!)
Ds stands on our guy friends laps and perhaps touches their "private areas"
Ds sits in the middle of wide legs of our friends (guys and girls) and perhaps comes in contact with "private areas"
If my ds was my dd, the same would go just fine for me
*
HOWEVER if anyone ever made me feel icky....it would not be okay... and would stop instanteously!!!!*


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Oops, read your later post that you'll stop taking her over to G's house.

I have to say though, that if your grandmother really wants to watch dd, she'll come to your house. And maybe you can alternate where you drive her and then she does the driving or something.


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## Mama2Bug (Feb 18, 2005)

Perhaps you can tell your grandmother that you'd like DD to have more time with other children, if that will help avoid hurt feelings. And don't worry _too_ much about this damaging her health. People very rarely have strokes just because their feelings get hurt. I do think you are doing the right thing in keeping her away from Grandma's husband. Even if you are wrong about his behavior, you will never feel really comfortable. (This is not to say you are wrong. We get those feelings for a reason.)

Like other posters, I worry about the message you are sending about men and boys in general. Your daughter will miss out on many wonderful and enriching experiences if you paint all males with such a broad brush. Would you pull her out of a male teacher's classroom? Refuse to let her play with a little boy at the playground? Not allow her to play at the home of a little girl who has a single father? It just seems SO exclusionary! Honestly, it makes me think of racism. If you had had some horrible experiences with people of a certain race, surely you wouldn't think it was alright to be prejudiced against all others of that race- right? I don't see gender as being drastically different.

What if you someday have a son? Will you believe him to be inherently predisposed to bad things because he is male?









I really hope you are able to work this out with your therapist before you pass on your fear to your innocent child.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Okay. I did it. I promised G that I would visit every week on my days off and find other arrangements for dd on the 2 days in question. She didn't like it and kept wanting to make other arrangements (like make H leave the house on those days) but I just told her it would be less stressful for everyone involved if I found other placement for dd. I don't like her husband. I haven't liked him. I've disliked him MORE since dd has been here. Red flags just go up all the time with him. I don't like him. I handled him being around her. Everything was ok until dd started walking. I've just had enough with him. G just has to understand that. The vibe I get from him won't rest. So, there's the vibe...and then letting dd touch him--after he's been told not to. I'd had enough.

And I guess letting a child go between men's legs depends on the comfort level of the parents from reading the responses here. I'd be fine with all of this if dd was going between her dad's legs/touching him. I'd think nothing of it...but I know him and trust him completely. He's not comfy with it...but I would think nothing of it with him. Some said they would not be comfy with it...others say it's no big deal. So I guess I still don't know what's right/wrong....I guess it's all a matter of perception/comfort level (still, when I tell someone I'm NOT comfy with it and they do it anyway...that's just pushing it).

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 







:

I think another unintended consequence is that, while she learns that men are the "bad" ones, she learns that women are the "good" ones. And that will mean to her that nothing a female does to her can be wrong. Which opens her up to the possibility of being molested by a woman. In general, it distresses me how many people think that that's a very unlikely possibility. Some of the most horrific stories of child molestation that I've heard about were perpetuated by women.









This isn't and won't be the case at all! It's not just men and I know that. There is only 2 women and myself who care for dd on a regular basis. I trust them. When it comes time to teach dd about good/bad touches--it will include both sexes. I don't live under a rock....I know both sexes AND the people close to my dd can hurt her. I will constantly talk to her/remind her about good/bad touches from both sexes and that she can tell me anything, etc.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama2Bug* 
Like other posters, I worry about the message you are sending about men and boys in general. Your daughter will miss out on many wonderful and enriching experiences if you paint all males with such a broad brush. Would you pull her out of a male teacher's classroom?Refuse to let her play with a little boy at the playground? Not allow her to play at the home of a little girl who has a single father? It just seems SO exclusionary! Honestly, it makes me think of racism. If you had had some horrible experiences with people of a certain race, surely you wouldn't think it was alright to be prejudiced against all others of that race- right? I don't see gender as being drastically different.

_I can understand how people could see this as racism. But it's not. I don't see what's so wrong about not letting my dd be alone with men....for at least right now. What's so wrong about that? Would it make all of you happy if I had 20 men at my house and let them babysit my dd? She doesn't have a voice right now. When she's older/talking and knows good/bad touches,...I'm sure my view on things might change. For now, I don't see what the big deal is...neither does her father. We're both on the same level and agree on the same rules for our dd._

What if you someday have a son? Will you believe him to be inherently predisposed to bad things because he is male?









_No. I will treat him no differently than my dd....he won't be alone with men, will only be with a couple of my closets female family members, etc....at least until he talks and knows good/bad touches. Boys are hurt as well as girls. Neither of the children will be *alone* (out of eye's view) with another child until they are much older. Things happen. Period. I'd watch him with my hawk vision just as I do my dd._


OT:
After living in my house for 2 years, I was out walking dd up and down the sidewalk (and she took a nose dive today and it looks like I beat the heck out of her







) I finally met my neighbors sometime last week--2 female friends and one of their gramma's live in one house. Next door to them is one of their sisters who is married with 3 older kids. We've gone out to dinner and chatted a few times now.

One of the ladies came over yesterday to take dd to meet everyone. My house was a disaster, so it worked out great for us--I got to clean and they played with a baby. There was <gasp> a man over there...and one son! I knew this before letting dd go with the lady. She's "good people"...you just know these things. Her sister (who I had met) is "good people". I knew dd wouldn't be *alone* with the husband/son...so I let her go. (I changed her diaper before she went. Lady asked, "Want me to take a diaper incase she needs changed?" I responded, "No, she'll be okay." I'm funny with anyone I don't know....not just men).

She was gone for 2 hours! It was a breakthrough for me....I was actually kinda proud of myself. That was the first person other than G or dd's dad who's ever taken her outta my sight. But I know they're good people and love babies (and they were right across the street







). The husband held her w/o me being there. It's okay.

I went over there today for bible study. There were 2 men there who loved babies and had kids of their own. They held dd and I was fine with it. I sense good with them....peace. BUT!!! It will still take me a long time to actually leave her *alone* with a man/let him change her diaper--if that ever happens. That was the first time a man held dd other than her dad and GH...but I sensed peace.

I didn't grow up with any positive male role models. None. The first good guy that came alone was dd's dad. We've been together for many years. I trust him completely...but he's the only man I've learned to trust. Sure, he broke my heart to pieces (and still does, sigh)...but he's a good man.

I won't apologize for the rules/paranoia I have for my dd (or hypothetical son). I have the paranoia/rules for a reason--for the life lessons that I have had. My job is to raise my dd into a confident woman...and to protect her until she is a woman. I'm following *my* motherly instincts to protect her. My instincts differ from most of the women here (though not all...there are a few women who agree with me) but I'm okay with that. My dd is *exposed* to men....she's just not alone with them and won't be for a long time. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm protecting my baby from things that I know can and do happen in this world.


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## Viewfinder (Sep 2, 2005)

It sounds like all is well, and I'm so glad.









Have a great weekend folks,

VF


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## Strong Mama (Feb 7, 2006)

I know I am jumping in here late but i will feel really bad if your GH just loves your dd and enjoys her being around/playing with her and hes depressed and thats why he stays in his room but when your dd comes over hes happy and enjoys her but you all think hes a pedophile deep down when all he does is love this little girl, ya know, the normal way.?? i dunno.im not there, so i dont know.


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

MayBaby,

So glad to hear about your decision regarding your care decision. I do kind of feel like I should say more and I hope I can say it warmly, because that is how it is meant.

I felt like in your follow up post where you let your daughter go off with people you had just met last week, for two hours, and you felt accomplished about it is still a bit of a red flag.

I am a survivor of abuse myself and I know about the rollercoaster on this kind of issue - waffling between being super-crazy protective and then feeling like you've "won" if you ease up.

But I want to caution you that "just knowing" that people are good people is not a safe way to make decisions about care for your child. Those instincts are fantastic, and we all use them in making decisions - but you need to back them up with observation, and that takes time. This goes double for people who have had bad experiences - sometimes our 'radar' is off, and in trying to avoid one particular scenario we can open ourselves up to all kinds of other ones.

Some of the other things you said also made me feel like you could use some other resources. Teaching about good touch/bad touch is important but it is in no way protection for a child. I would strongly recommend that you read "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin DeBecker which provides really good concrete help in navigating this kind of thing.

I feel like you need some support in working through these issues and I hope you do get that. I hope you don't feel beat on in this thread either. These are hard things and I think the community here is very helpful in its knowledge and thought over these things.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Nm


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

I am going to recommend also that you pick up Gavin De Becker's books! I think that having some solid recommendations will help you, that back up some of what you are thinking, gives you a plan and some realistic ideas to work with AND steers you away from unnecessary (and dangerous) faliacies and fears.

Oh. And all people will break your heart. Everyone will disappoint you sometimes. The strength of you, is that you have the internal solidity to live through it and not let it colour your whole life.







: Not always the easiest, but it does make life more worth living.

(it is like a play on "this job would be great if it weren't for the customers." "This relationship would be great if you'd just stop being human."







)


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## newmainer (Dec 30, 2003)

I'm going to follow GuildJen and say something that i hope will come off as gentle and caring, but i was also struck by your last post.

Being comfortable having your dd with other people to the extent that you would let them change her diaper isn't something that - imo- should be a 'goal'. you have alluded in your posts that you have history and issues that you are working with that influence your comfort level with dd and men as well as strangers and personally i think *that's fine*. If your dd grows up a little more protected.. well, just be honest with her about it as she gets older and asks questions as it comes up.

Your situation with your neighbor sounds great... but, i dont' know. If it was me, the first folks who took my dd away from me besides family wouldn't be taking her for 2 hours. I don't care if it's across the street. You also said you "knew" she wouldnt' be alone with the men. How could you *possibly* know that? I mean, it doesnt' even matter *who* she would be alone with. I dont' know, i guess it seems like you have this idea that if you felt comfortable leaving your dd in x.y.z situation (whatever you have decided in your mind is 'reasonable') that = some resolution on your own issues.

I feel like i'm not explaining myself right.
I have been lucky - thus far- to have had 99.9% positive experiences with people (won't single out men here) in my life. No assaults. Nearly nothing.

But- I am totally conscious of who changes my dc's diapers or who they spend time with without me. Neither of her grandfather's offers to change diapers, or will, if they are in their care. They pass them off to me or their father or grandmother. I would never have handed off one of my dc's to a neighbor who i have a new relationship with for 2 hours. Maybe 15 min. It would take me several visits, my house and theirs, and some shorter dc-only visits (like 15, then 30 or so...) before i'd get to that chunk of time. Not that time makes any difference... anything can happen in 5 min. let alone 2 hrs. but... testing the waters, yk? Did they have fun? What did they do? How did i feel about the situation? etc...

I just think that if you are a more cautious parent- GREAT. Don't set yourself and your dd up to some 'standard' that you think signals healthy relationships with others. Go by your *own* gut and what you know to be true.

I think your process and decision to remove your dd from your G's care was courageous and difficult... way to be a mama-bear! Your dd is young, you'll get lots more practice to come!







(hopefully in situations not as heartwrenching as this one!)


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## TCMoulton (Oct 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 







:

I believe I have responded before that your rule about never alone with a male is WAY out of line and will be seriously damaging.

-Angela


Gotta agree with this. Chances are, if you decide to have your child attend school, that she will have at least a few male teachers before she turns 18 - teaching her through your actions that all males are to be feared because they might molest you will do her nothing but harm in the future, possibly imparing her ability to have a healthy relationship with the opposite sex.

If you have a bad mommy intuition about GH then by all means act on it, we are usually right when it comes to our intuition, but please reconsider the way you portray men in her presence.


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## Blucactus (Nov 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MayBaby2007* 
If a man is standing with legs spread wide and a child walks up and puts her face in his crotch (right on his penis) and he just stands there...is that inappropriate?

If a man is sitting spread eagle on the edge of a chair and a child walks up and pats his crotch and he just sits there...is that inappropriate?

I've been having ongoing problems with my gramma's husband and I'm at the end of my rope. I've talked and bitched for almost a year. I'm going to hurt him if I see him let dd touch his penis again.

Am I being too sensitive? I don't see this problem with dd and her dad--only gramma's husband. These are the only 2 men dd is around so I don't know if I'm just being too sensitive.

As a woman and her mom, dd comes in contact with my crotch quite often. But I also don't have hanging parts like a man. If I'm rocking her, her foot might land on my pevic bone area and that's okay with me. But, if her foot actually falls betwen my legs and is touching my vagina/clitoris, I move her foot because I don't think that's appropriate. A man is just "out there" and I just don't know if what he's doing is way out of line or somewhat common. Help please? Frazzled mama.

i am going to bypass the other things that came out in this discussion & add my vote to the original question-i think a normal grown person would naturally shift their body probably (even subconciously) if a child was unintentionally touching their privates--particularly if it was not THEIR child.


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## lolalola (Aug 1, 2006)

Maybaby~

I think you are doing EXACTLY what a good mother should do...trusting your own instincts, trying your best to protect your daughter and asking for help/advice when you feel you need it.
















You sound very level-headed, to me. All the best!


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## valkyrina (Dec 18, 2007)

Maybaby:
First of all, kudos to you for pulling your child out of a situation that you felt was unhealthy. It sounds like it took a lot of courage, and I hope you are feeling proud that you did the right thing. As for your question in the original post, it would definitely make me feel icky as well. I think there is no 'right' or 'wrong' to something like that, you just have to go with your comfort level, which you did.

I also want to chime in on what is increasingly a very heated argument, but I want to start by saying it's not my intention to pick a fight with you or judge you.

I DON'T think you need to go out and show your child's nudie booty to a bunch of men.
I DON'T think your daughter needs to be exposed to penises at an early age.
I DON'T think that it's appropriate for strange men to be changing her diaper or being alone with her.
It's not good or healthy for your daughter (or for your mental health) to have her be left alone with men that you don't trust or know.
I don't think anyone is making any of these arguments. (I hope!)

It sounds as if you don't really have any good male friends that you trust, or really any men in your life (other than dd's dad) who you trust to babysit your daughter. In that light, your rule about not leaving her alone with men (other than her dad, I hope) makes a lot of sense. I have two boys, and they are not alone with men other than my dad and their dad. Only because none of the other men I know (and would trust) could handle 8-month-old twins on their own, but still.

I think that what people are reacting to, and what I react to most viscerally on this issue, is the blanket rule about men, with no exceptions. I think that many blanket rules on many topics can cause problems. I would wish for you that you are able leave yourself the freedom to make exceptions to this rule when you feel comfortable with a male that you trust and know well.

I am also a victim of sexual abuse, and I understand the horror that comes at the thought that your child may suffer the same kind of experience. I think even lucky moms who have never had this kind of thing happen to them can imagine how horrible it would be. I think you need to do whatever you can to protect your daughter, especially in this age when such a ridiculously high percentage of our women are being abused. I understand that you are working on your issues, and it's really great that you are getting the help that you need to feel better, but it does take time. I would recommend that you do a lot of reading (the books that someone else recommended sound really great), and a lot of thinking about where your boundaries are (I think you are already working on this one).

Of course you are free to parent your child in a way that you see fit. No one is trying to take that away from you. If you have never seen men around children and never had positive males in your life, then I can understand your fears. But I also want to assure you that there are men out in the world who would be wonderful influences on your child. Many of my male friends are going to be great teachers and role models for my boys as they get older, and I would wish the same for your daughter. Does that mean you need to go out and leave her alone with them asap? Absolutely not. But my hope for you is that you are able to work through your issues and meet some male friends who will show you that not all men are to be feared.

Good luck to you and your daughter.


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## MayBaby2007 (Feb 22, 2007)

Blucactus thank you. It's comforting to know I (hopefully) made the right decision with G/GH.

lolalola
















Quote:

It sounds as if you don't really have any good male friends that you trust, or really any men in your life (other than dd's dad) who you trust to babysit your daughter. In that light, your rule about not leaving her alone with men (other than her dad, I hope) makes a lot of sense.
That is exactly the case. Maybe I never made that point clear. DD's dad is the ONLY man in my life. He's been the only man in my life for years. I trust him 200% with dd. He's as paranoid as I am, if not more about this topic. We've been on and off for years and I've dated here and there...but never formed a bond with another man like him. I don't think I will. I don't think I want another man. Another woman, sure...but not into men all that much. At all. DD's dad is special...he had a way with me.....and I think he'll be the last for me. He gave me a beautiful dd who I will protect 'til my death. DD will probably grow up with one dad/stepmom....and me/stepmom. Maybe I'm scared of men....maybe I'm just more comfy with women. I dunno...but I don't forsee meeting anymore men in my life. I don't want to. So yeah, she'll have more female exposure...but she will have male exposure (just not as much and won't be alone with anyone but her father....FOR NOW).

DD's half brothers are young curious (1)preteen/(1)teen boys. They've been caught numerous times checking out porn, sneaking peeks of their aunt getting dressed/undressed, figured out the code on the TV and ordered a porn movie, etc. That's all normal, IMO. But the fact of the matter is they are young, horny, curious boys....and they do NOT need to see my dd naked or be alone with her. Period. Their dad (dd's dad) agrees 200% that they shouldn't see her naked or be alone with her. At least for now. Maybe when they're older things will be different. For now, we are doing what we believe is the best course of action to protect our dd.

It all seems perfectly logical to me...and dd's dad. Nothing anyone says will change my (his) mind, so why even try anymore?

Thanks for all the positive input (for those who were supportive/positive/stuck to the actual question at hand)....all greatly appreciated!


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## BelovedK (Jun 7, 2005)

Hi all







a few posts have been removed because of UA violations, or QUOTING posts that had been removed. If there are any questions, feel free to PM me. Let's keep this thread on track and only respond to MayBaby on the concern she brings to this thread and not refer to old posts.

Thank you.


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## ~Boudicca~ (Sep 7, 2005)

Maybaby I remember your threads in the past and I can see how hard it is to have these issues with men. I am glad you are working through them whether or not I agree with some of your viewpoints. Good for you for deciding to reevaluate your dd's childcare situation, it is hard to hurt your G-ma but when your baby's safety is in question it doesn't really matter whose feelings get hurt as long as she is safe from harm.

I agree with Demeter you really need to pick up a copy of Protecting the Gift by Gavin de Becker. It will lend you a lot of insight and hopefully will enforce you to be able to trust your gut more.

Good luck with everything and I hope you find healing in your life.


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## hippiemum21580 (Jul 14, 2007)

I just wanted to mention something.....I am VERY careful about who I trust with my children. Very. I always believed between that and my open talks with my sons about appropriate touching and what to do if someone makes them uncomfortable...(and trust me, these were very thorough open frank discussions and I really thought they GOT it) that my diligence woudl keep them from harm.
Well, it turns out that my 4 year old was sexually molested by an 8 year old girl IN MY OWN HOME> She was molested herself at a younger age and I did not know about this or I woudl have been more diligent. It is my friends daughter who I babysat often and though they were never alone for prolonged times...it did not take much. Once they set up a tent with a blanket in teh bedroom to block my view but the door was open and they were only in there long enough for me to vacuum the livingrrom with teh door open and the bedroom within my line of sight. Plain and simple, you cannot garuntee no harm ever coming to your child. Therefore living paranoid may do more harm then good.
THAT being said......there is a difference between blind paranoia and mothers intuition. If ANY teensy bit of your heart says your daughter is not okay in the current situation, please please please follow your heart. Could gramma babysit at YOUR home without her husband? Trust me, the guilt you will carry if you HAD the option to do things different and didn't and GOD FORBID something happened....... I understand that feeling all too well. Though I was unaware of the girls past experience and never considered another CHILD to be a possible threat... I still feel so guilty that my son lost his innocense right in my own home.


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