# If she doesn't pick up her daughter by 10:30 PM my husband wants to call the police! CRAZY 2011 update



## gbailey

So, a friend/strong acquaintance asked me to watch her daughter for a couple of hours. She said she had an urgent family matter to take care of and would pick her up within two hours. I said sure. Her daughter has some SN but I've been around her enough to know what triggers some of her reactions and how to deal with them. She dropped her daughter off at around 3PM and said she'd call me on her way back and let me know she'd be no more than two hours. At 5:30 no word from her mother. I made the girls dinner and they ate around 6. No word from the mother. I get worried about her. If she's running late no problem but I assumed she'd check on her daughter. This was the first time she's been left alone at our place. Left her a voice mail telling her to call me and let me know everything is okay with her. Nothing. I assume her urgent family matter is worse than expected. 6:30 PM and no response. I get a text from her around 7 telling me she's taking longer than she thought and asked if her daughter could stay until 8. I told her to call me right away. No response! Her mother didn't bring enough diapers so DH went out to get some. She and my DD are not the same size. Around 8 she starts asking for her mommy. Oh, her mom hasn't called me since her text. I told her her mommy would be coming soon. She didn't leave an extra change of clothes for her daughter so bathing her and putting herin some pj's wasnt an option and DD's would have been too small. Around 8:30 her DC does something I've never seen and wasn't sure how to deal with. She starts picking up things and throwing them and screaming that she wants her mommy. She also kicked me quite a few times. I had no idea how to deal with this.This only lasted for about 5 minutes and when she stopped I told her I know she misses her mommy but she would be there soon. I put on a DVD and that calmed her down. I wasn't sure what else to do and since her mother hasn't bothered to call and check on her child, I called her AGAIN! and told her she needs to call be right away as it was urgent! Instead of calling me she sends me another text. I am so ANGRY with her mother. The text says that she's going to grab a bite to eat and will pick her up as soon as she's done. Her DD is now asleep on our sofa. I called her and the call goes to voicemail. My husband is ticked off. He called her and told her if she's not at our place by 10:30 he's going to call the police. If she doesn't come what am I supposed to do? I told DH if the mother doesn't come she needs to sleep here and we can figure out what to do in the morning.


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## APToddlerMama

Do you think this mother is stable in general? Do you think the child is safe with her? Do you believe she is really dealing with an urgent crisis right now? Those are the questions that I'd want to know in deciding what to do...


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## Lisa1970

What was the emergency? That would matter a lot. I mean, if she was out of milk, then I would call police. If her husband had a heart attack, I would give it more time. See what I mean?


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## Lisa1970

I asked a friend to watch my children once while getting checked out at labor and delivery. My water ended up breaking and I went in to full blown labor. You know..the kind where no way can you make a call or text. I would hate if someone called the police on me over that.


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## Lisa1970

Since the text said she was going to grab a bite to eat, then I agree with calling the police. What if she got in an accident and can't call? Or what if she is just a bad mother?


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## gbailey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *APToddlerMama*
> 
> Do you think this mother is stable in general? Do you think the child is safe with her? Do you believe she is really dealing with an urgent crisis right now? Those are the questions that I'd want to know in deciding what to do...


I've never had a reason to think she wasn't stable before. I've believed she's been in denial about the extent of her daughters needs but she's been loving and caring to her in my presence. I don't believe for a second she has urgent family business to tend to. I told her to call me as it was urgent and no response. It doesn't seem right. Had she told me she needed me to watch her daughter longer I would have done it. I could have easily given her DD a bath and put her on some pj's if she brought them. All she would have had to do was carry her DD to the car. And I would have liked to have known if I dealt with her daughters tantrum the right way.Who goes out to eat while your child is at someone else's home but you never call to check on her or speak to her.


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## Petie1104

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> What was the emergency? That would matter a lot. I mean, if she was out of milk, then I would call police. If her husband had a heart attack, I would give it more time. See what I mean?


I agree with this one. It would really depend on the situation for me.


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## Lisa1970

Sorry, I just have to add again....she knows you needed her back ASAP and has the time to eat, but refused to call you back. Something is up. If she shows up drunk or appearing on drugs, call the police over that too, don't let the child get in the car with her.


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## Lisa1970

Yeah, go ahead and call the police now.


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## texmati

What did she say when your DP told her that you were going to call the police? Instead of saying that it's urgent, I'd at least send a text telling her that she needs to come pick up her DD *now*!


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## gbailey

This. She had time to eat but not to call me back about her daughter? I also agree about the only circumstances in which to call the police are if she shows up on something.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *Lisa1970*
> 
> Sorry, I just have to add again....she knows you needed her back ASAP and has the time to eat, but refused to call you back. Something is up. If she shows up drunk or appearing on drugs, call the police over that too, don't let the child get in the car with her.


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## gbailey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *texmati*
> 
> What did she say when your DP told her that you were going to call the police? Instead of saying that it's urgent, I'd at least send a text telling her that she needs to come pick up her DD *now*!


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## 4Blessings

Does it really matter if the girl sleeps in her clothes? I'd give the mom the benefit of the doubt since the mom has not shown you any "issues" in the past (mistreatment, drug use, etc.).

Do your best to keep the child comfortable, give the mom an earful when she does show up, and refuse to watch her again if it bothers you to be put in this situation.

I wouldn't start the cascade of government intrusion in her family over this situation.


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## motherhendoula

Wow, I cant wait to hear how this all turns out! NO ONE who is stable and right minded would 'go out for a bite to eat' while they were 4 hours late to pick up a child who is still in diapers. It sounds like this mother needed a loong break - she didnt go about this in the right manner and it sounds like you have lost a friend.

Write tomorrow and let us know what her excuse was!


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## gbailey

Texmati, I tried to post this before but I'm nervous and ended up quoting you instead. Anyhoo, DH left the message on her voicemail. She still hasn't responded. I told DH we won't call the police because I don't want a little girl traumatized but also don't know what to do or say if she wakes up and freaks out because her mom is not here. I hope the mom comes but if she doesn't, we'll just have to deal with this in the morning.


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## purslaine

I probably would not call until morning. What would calling now do? If she is unstable, or you think she has abadonned her child, go for it. If it is simply to punish her for being inconsiderate and using you, I would skip it. You have learned your lesson - refuse to babysit in the future for her.

Gah - I hope she shows up soon and not in the middle of the night!


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## shanniesue2

wow. just.... wow.


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## APToddlerMama

I would call the police if I suspected that this child was going to be in danger...as in mom showing up high or if her mental health seems compromised. Otherwise, I wouldn't put the kid through it. BUT...that would be the end of the friendship unless she had a really seriously great excuse.


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## gbailey

Kathymuggle, I would never call the police because she's inconsiderate. I'm less concerned about that and more concerned about her daughter.


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## A&A

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> I probably would not call until morning. What would calling now do? If she is unstable, or you think she has abadonned her child, go for it. If it is simply to punish her for being inconsiderate and using you, I would skip it. You have learned your lesson - refuse to babysit in the future for her.
> 
> Gah - I hope she shows up soon and not in the middle of the night!


this.


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## JollyGG

I guess I would give her the benefit of the doubt. Considering she didn't leave enough diapers or a change of clothes I would assume she really didn't think she would be as long as she has been. I would be irritated that she hadn't returned your calls but I would wait for the explanation before getting too upset just yet.

Totally different situation but I remember leaving early for work one day for my job with plans to stop and check on my sick aunt on the way to work in the next town over and I didn't home for three days. It cascaded into meetings with several doctors and ended with me holding my aunts hand while she passed away before coming home to my son. I hadn't taken a change of clothes or more importantly my breast pump with me. So I guess I can understand how a family emergency can take longer than expected. (Though I did keep in phone contact with my husband I don't think I answered my cell phone even once since I was in ICU with my aunt, he ended up just having to wait for me to call to find out what was going on). I'm sure I did stop for food on the way home as I'm not entirely sure what I did for food most of those three days. They were kinda a haze. But once I did get a break I'm sure I needed to eat before I could care for someone else.


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## purslaine




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## Tigerchild

At midnight, I would call.

It's possible that she's turned off her phone, and so she doesn't know that DH sent her that message. I would ask for advice at that point. Explain that she is now seven hours late from the original time, and it's been 4 (?) hours since her last text saying she would be there shortly and that you have received *no* voice contact since drop off.

I hate to say this, but you don't know who is texting you. Her phone/car could have been stolen. If she was attending to family business, like meeting with an abusive person in her life, they could have seriously injured her. The lack of voice contact is very disturbing.

You have to look at this not from a zOMG EVIL CPS standpoint, but from a very serious safety standpoint. Until you make voice contact with her, you have no idea if she has been receiving or capable of recieving any information since she dropped off her daughter. And if she shows up later, you can tell her that you started the process of filing a report because you were worried sick about her--the behavior was odd, uncharacteristic, and because you couldn't hear her voice you didn't know if it was really her or if someone had gotten her phone.

I guess you could always text that to her "Need voice contact, if you don't call or show up by X I am contacting police because I am concerned for your safety".


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## Mrs.Music

Unless you think she is abandoning her child, you shouldn't call the police. But you should really give her a piece of your mind when she comes back around! I had someone do this to me once. She left her kid with me all the time. It creates a very annoying pattern. At least I was his nanny, so I was totally prepared.


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## Callimom

I agree with Tigerchild completely. (why didn't it quote?)

OP I hope it all gets resolved completely.

Karen


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## texmati

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
> 
> At midnight, I would call.
> 
> It's possible that she's turned off her phone, and so she doesn't know that DH sent her that message. I would ask for advice at that point. Explain that she is now seven hours late from the original time, and it's been 4 (?) hours since her last text saying she would be there shortly and that you have received *no* voice contact since drop off.
> 
> I hate to say this, but *you don't know who is texting you*. Her phone/car could have been stolen. If she was attending to family business, like meeting with an abusive person in her life, they could have seriously injured her. The lack of voice contact is very disturbing.
> 
> You have to look at this not from a zOMG EVIL CPS standpoint, but from a very serious safety standpoint. Until you make voice contact with her, you have no idea if she has been receiving or capable of recieving any information since she dropped off her daughter. And if she shows up later, you can tell her that you started the process of filing a report because you were worried sick about her--the behavior was odd, uncharacteristic, and because you couldn't hear her voice you didn't know if it was really her or if someone had gotten her phone.
> 
> I guess you could always text that to her "Need voice contact, if you don't call or show up by X I am contacting police because I am concerned for your safety".


This is a very good point- I had not even thought of that.


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## MusicianDad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tigerchild*
> 
> At midnight, I would call.
> 
> It's possible that she's turned off her phone, and so she doesn't know that DH sent her that message. I would ask for advice at that point. Explain that she is now seven hours late from the original time, and it's been 4 (?) hours since her last text saying she would be there shortly and that you have received *no* voice contact since drop off.
> 
> I hate to say this, but you don't know who is texting you. Her phone/car could have been stolen. If she was attending to family business, like meeting with an abusive person in her life, they could have seriously injured her. The lack of voice contact is very disturbing.
> 
> You have to look at this not from a zOMG EVIL CPS standpoint, but from a very serious safety standpoint. Until you make voice contact with her, you have no idea if she has been receiving or capable of recieving any information since she dropped off her daughter. And if she shows up later, you can tell her that you started the process of filing a report because you were worried sick about her--the behavior was odd, uncharacteristic, and because you couldn't hear her voice you didn't know if it was really her or if someone had gotten her phone.
> 
> I guess you could always text that to her "Need voice contact, if you don't call or show up by X I am contacting police because I am concerned for your safety".


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mrs.Music*
> 
> Unless you think she is abandoning her child, you shouldn't call the police. But you should really give her a piece of your mind when she comes back around! I had someone do this to me once. She left her kid with me all the time. It creates a very annoying pattern. At least I was his nanny, so I was totally prepared.


I'm flip flopping between these two. I can't see calling the police because she's insanely late, but at the same time unless she's actually spoken to you, you have no clue who is sending the texts.


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## Mrs.Music

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> I'm flip flopping between these two. I can't see calling the police because she's insanely late, but at the same time unless she's actually spoken to you, you have no clue who is sending the texts.


That's a good point... It could be a safety issue for the mother...


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## Celtain

Wow, just wow


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## nola79

I'd call, for so many reasons.


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## pianojazzgirl

Oh wow, I hadn't even thought that it could be someone else sending the texts. I absolutely agree with the pp's idea to leave a message like this:

Quote:


> "Need voice contact, if you don't call or show up by X I am contacting police because I am concerned for your safety".


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## StoriesInTheSoil

My very first thought was along the lines of what Tigerchild posted. What if she was meeting someone unsavory, an abusive ex perhaps, and something happened and it isn't her texting at all? I really think that it would be prudent to speak with a police officer and find out what to do. Maybe call the non-emergency line and talk to an officer at the station instead of a 911 dispatcher?


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## Lisa1970

The problem is, if she is on drugs or something, the police need to be called now so they can make a record of it. Calling them in 6 months from now when you find out she is leaving her child home alone and telling them what she has done in the past won't help. From all you have said, I highly suspect the mother is using drugs. The child is already traumatized and you need to step in now, while you still can. Before it is too late. Too often, people turn their backs on children who are being abused or neglected, because they do not want to rock the boat. I think at this point, you need to call the police.


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## ASusan

Call the police. Maybe it's because I'm in a community where 4 people recently went missing, and 3 are presumed dead, but my heart is absolutely racing for this mother and her little girl. I hope the girl is sleeping peacefully now.


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## waiting2bemommy

ok, do you know any of her family? any of her other friends? does she have internet access from her phone to update a facebook or twitter account? does she have an ex whose number/address you know? did she give you any information about where she might be stopping to eat or where she priginally was going? Before i called the police, I would call her mother or father or any other close family member, any friends she has that she might have stopped by to see, if I didn't have their numbers and knew where they lived I might actually go over there. If she DOES have an abusive family member I would try going to her house and seeing if she is actually there.

It could be something as simple as her having a man over that she didn't want around her dd, and it lasting longer than she thought and she is embarrassed to tell you. Of course that is not a good excuse by any stretch but then you could chew her out personally, lol, and skip the police drama.

I have a SO who is always going out for hours longer than planned and I have never called the cops on him, but I surely do find him almost every time. It just takes some sleuthing. And while I agree it's not your job, I still think that is preferable to calling the police right off the bat.

i'm assuming she is single or you would have called her husband????


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## gbailey

Mom showed up about 20 minutes ago saying she was sorry she was so late but this and that and that and this. It all amounted to her needing some time away. I needed to know what would prevent her from calling to check up on her DD, giving me a courtesy call and not calling when I said it was urgent.She rationalized I would handle it. She knew her daughter was safe. I would be patient. Her DD likes being around me and my DD. The family matter was her wanting some quiet time. The "family matter" was really a movie that led to several other things she was able to do without her DD. She needed the quiet. A meal by herself. Still speechless. DH told her she should thank her lucky stars I convinced him to not call the police. I told her had she not pulled this I would have been glad to have her daughter spend the night or given her some time during the day if she was honest or acted responsibly. You pick up the phone. I worried for her and I worried for her DD. She said she was sorry but I don't buy it. DH doesn't buy it. He's normally laid back, mind you business type but wants to call CPS. He won't. He'll cool off by tomorrow.

I wish she would have expressed her stress level to me. I would have kept her daughter for a day. If she asked me to keep her overnight we could have arranged that too but what she did is just not okay. Motherhood stresses me out sometimes too but even if DD is with her daddy I call and check in. I'm trying to be empathetic towards her but I'm very angry.


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## Chamomile Girl

Holy carp! Unbelieveable. Her poor daughter. And poor you!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Mom showed up about 20 minutes ago saying she was sorry she was so late but this and that and that and this. It all amounted to her needing some time away. I needed to know what would prevent her from calling to check up on her DD, giving me a courtesy call and not calling when I said it was urgent.She rationalized I would handle it. She knew her daughter was safe. I would be patient. Her DD likes being around me and my DD. The family matter was her wanting some quiet time. The "family matter" was really a movie that led to several other things she was able to do without her DD. She needed the quiet. A meal by herself. Still speechless. DH told her she should thank her lucky stars I convinced him to not call the police. I told her had she not pulled this I would have been glad to have her daughter spend the night or given her some time during the day if she was honest or acted responsibly. You pick up the phone. I worried for her and I worried for her DD. She said she was sorry but I don't buy it. DH doesn't buy it. He's normally laid back, mind you business type but wants to call CPS. He won't. He'll cool off by tomorrow.
> 
> I wish she would have expressed her stress level to me. I would have kept her daughter for a day. If she asked me to keep her overnight we could have arranged that too but what she did is just not okay. Motherhood stresses me out sometimes too but even if DD is with her daddy I call and check in. I'm trying to be empathetic towards her but I'm very angry.


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## tinuviel_k

Wow! So she lied about having a "family matter." She went off by herself to watch a movie, get dinner, and lord knows what else. She was 3.5 hours late, refused to answer any of your urgent calls, texted only once, and didn't leave her daughter with the needed supplies. And then she had the nerve to casually say, "Oh, I knew you could handle it?" ?!?!?!?!

I would NEVER babysit for this woman ever again. What a horrible, stressful, rude thing to do.


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## APToddlerMama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Mom showed up about 20 minutes ago saying she was sorry she was so late but this and that and that and this. It all amounted to her needing some time away. I needed to know what would prevent her from calling to check up on her DD, giving me a courtesy call and not calling when I said it was urgent.She rationalized I would handle it. She knew her daughter was safe. I would be patient. Her DD likes being around me and my DD. The family matter was her wanting some quiet time. The "family matter" was really a movie that led to several other things she was able to do without her DD. She needed the quiet. A meal by herself. Still speechless. DH told her she should thank her lucky stars I convinced him to not call the police. I told her had she not pulled this I would have been glad to have her daughter spend the night or given her some time during the day if she was honest or acted responsibly. You pick up the phone. I worried for her and I worried for her DD. She said she was sorry but I don't buy it. DH doesn't buy it. He's normally laid back, mind you business type but wants to call CPS. He won't. He'll cool off by tomorrow.
> 
> I wish she would have expressed her stress level to me. I would have kept her daughter for a day. If she asked me to keep her overnight we could have arranged that too but what she did is just not okay. Motherhood stresses me out sometimes too but even if DD is with her daddy I call and check in. I'm trying to be empathetic towards her but I'm very angry.


 WOW. I am speechless. Are you certain that she wasn't on drugs?


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## waiting2bemommy

I see this from 2 angles:

angle A) She knew you were a trusted friend, she was at teh end of her rope mentally and emotionally and it was imperative that she get away from her child before she hurt her or did soemthing she would regret. She knew she could trust you and she was afraid to say upfront just what she needed for fear you would say no or think she was silly.

Angle b) she knew you were a trusted friend and so she took advantage of your kindness to go off and do her own thing and be incredibly inconsiderate and selfish.

I think it would depend on the context of your friendship overall, which way I took it.


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## purslaine

I am glad the mom is Ok. It sounds like she handled things really poorly - which makes me wonder if she was just at the end of her rope or a total narcissist.


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## gbailey

Although I am angry with her I think she is at the end of her rope which is why I am online finding some community resources that may be able to help her. My husband votes for CPS. My vote is to offer her something that may be able to help her and does not involve me watching her daughter. There were so many better ways for her to express needing some help other than pulling this b.s. I'm doing this more for her daughter but for her too. Maybe I'm a sucker but I can deal with that if it helps her.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am glad the mom is Ok. It sounds like she handled things really poorly - which makes me wonder if she was just at the end of her rope or a total narcissist.


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## MusicianDad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> I see this from 2 angles:
> 
> angle A) She knew you were a trusted friend, she was at the end of her rope mentally and emotionally and it was imperative that she get away from her child before she hurt her or did something she would regret. She knew she could trust you and she was afraid to say upfront just what she needed for fear you would say no or think she was silly.
> 
> Angle b) she knew you were a trusted friend and so she took advantage of your kindness to go off and do her own thing and be incredibly inconsiderate and selfish.
> 
> I think it would depend on the context of your friendship overall, which way I took it.


That. I personally wouldn't write off the friendship unless things like this a common occurrence. There is this idea in our society that mom's aren't supposed to ask for help which could have played a huge role in why she was dishonest. If it was a friend that I knew wasn't someone to just take advantage of people I would sit down with her and explain that I know it can be hard to ask for help but if she reaches the point where she really does feel the need to de-stress so much that she'd be willing to lie about that she can trust me to help her.

Before making any moves though, you should wait until you cool down too.


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## BabyBearsMummy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Although I am angry with her I think she is at the end of her rope which is why I am online finding some community resources that may be able to help her. My husband votes for CPS. My vote is to offer her something that may be able to help her and does not involve me watching her daughter. There were so many better ways for her to express needing some help other than pulling this b.s. I'm doing this more for her daughter but for her too. Maybe I'm a sucker but I can deal with that if it helps her.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am glad the mom is Ok. It sounds like she handled things really poorly - which makes me wonder if she was just at the end of her rope or a total narcissist.
Click to expand...

Contacting CPS does not necissarily mean the child will be removed from the home. CPS often works with families helping them to access community resources and help families stay togther. If CPS is contacted prehaps your friend will be able to benefit from some respite care for her daughter allowing her to catch a movie and diner out without pulling this on some other unspecting person. Also I can help but wonder if this is the first time she has done this to someone.


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## gbailey

Good point about her possibly doing this to someone before. DH's main concern is what if we weren;t good people. What if she's left her DD in homes that are not caring or kind to her. I've never had to call CPS on anyone before and it's not really something I want to do. DH is adamant she's being manipulative in her story about needing some quiet. He doesn't buy it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BabyBearsMummy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Although I am angry with her I think she is at the end of her rope which is why I am online finding some community resources that may be able to help her. My husband votes for CPS. My vote is to offer her something that may be able to help her and does not involve me watching her daughter. There were so many better ways for her to express needing some help other than pulling this b.s. I'm doing this more for her daughter but for her too. Maybe I'm a sucker but I can deal with that if it helps her.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am glad the mom is Ok. It sounds like she handled things really poorly - which makes me wonder if she was just at the end of her rope or a total narcissist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Contacting CPS does not necissarily mean the child will be removed from the home. CPS often works with families helping them to access community resources and help families stay togther. If CPS is contacted prehaps your friend will be able to benefit from some respite care for her daughter allowing her to catch a movie and diner out without pulling this on some other unspecting person. Also I can help but wonder if this is the first time she has done this to someone.
Click to expand...


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## Jenne

Holy Moly! I opened the thread thinking it was a holiday helper thread based on the title! :lol I definitely think you need to get some community services involved, whether it is CPS or United Way or YMCA or ??? in your neck of the woods. This was an *acquaintance* this was not a close friend. I am just blown away! I cannot even imagine! I might want to keep the child frequently after this just to make sure everything is okay. You may be the best thing this little girl has going for her. Let us know if you need help finding local resources

Jenne


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## mekat

I'm the mother of a special needs child and have an ex that got addicted to crack cocaine. It started off with stress, then depression and then seeking mental help. When the mental health system didn't help him fast enough he tried drugs. Money would go missing, he would disappear without notice for hours on end even when he was supposed to home to watch ds so I could work, he had new friends but wouldn't tell me anything about them etc... Honestly this story is bringing back memories of my marriage a few months before I kicked him out and hired an attorney to get total custody and decision making over my child's care. I'm not saying that is what happening in this case but if your husband's instincts are screaming at him I think you both owe it to the little girl to let someone know and investigate.

I'm sorry but I just don't find her actions to be of a mother thinking clearly; either her thinking is muddled by stress and mental issues that can result or her thinking may be impaired by some substance but something is seriously impairing her judgment and that alone is reason enough to have her investigated. Please remember one thing if it is substance abuse addicts are excellent liars. Even to the day I kicked my ex out, he was still coming up with excuse after excuse after excuse of how this was my fault and our four year old's fault basically everybody under the sun was to blame but him. I didn't know at the time he was an addict, I found out a few months later after I kicked him out. The only thing I knew for sure at that point in time was that he was mentally unbalanced, putting my son in danger and a liar. I knew he was lying I just didn't know what the truth was and he refused to speak the truth, just told me what ever he thought I wanted to hear and if I confronted him with his behavior it only kicked off a new round of excuses and blaming everybody but himself.


----------



## Marissamom

it really, really sounds like the mom is at the end of her rope and having a hard time dealing with her kid's special needs. and doesn't know how to ask for help or where to get it. I would contact CPS to see if they know any resources you could help the mom get into contact with, let them know that you don't think the child is in any danger at this point, just that the mom seems to need more support.


----------



## aslyn

Calling CPS would end the friendship in my book. If you really want to help her look for some resources or activities that her daughter can do a couple hours a week..but calling cps, well I am not sure where you live but HERE cps is so understaffed and budget cuts right and left calling unless there is abuse/neglect happening is not only a waste of resources and may never get investigated but it would tick me off if someone i considered a friend called because they thought I needed a break and I would no longer associate with them.

What mom did was wrong on so many levels, I agree but turning their lives upside down because your mad isn't going to make it better


----------



## Bellabaz

Wow. Wow. Wow.

She needs help and support. The way she handled this is unacceptable. If you are a trusted friend then I don't see why she couldn't just say look having a breakdown need to drop of my kid. Needing time to yourself because you are burnt out and want to throw your kid outthe window is okay. its also a sign you need to find some support services. Lying about a family issue to go to a movie is not okay. I have been really burnt out and I don't think I would have been able to make up a lie. I would have broken down in tears and said please take dd for a couple hours so I can breathe.

I think its great and very generous that you are helping her find some help. Also for the little girl. You might be the one person who knows this family needs some support.


----------



## Linda on the move

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marissamom*
> 
> it really, really sounds like the mom is at the end of her rope and having a hard time dealing with her kid's special needs. and doesn't know how to ask for help or where to get it.


this.

I think the most compassionate thing you can do it research support options for her and give her the information.

I'm also the mother of a sn child. I understand being at the end of one's rope. What she did is wrong on so many levels, and yet I can see how it happened.


----------



## purslaine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Good point about her possibly doing this to someone before. DH's main concern is what if we weren;t good people. What if she's left her DD in homes that are not caring or kind to her. I've never had to call CPS on anyone before and it's not really something I want to do. DH is adamant she's being manipulative in her story about needing some quiet. He doesn't buy it.


She might have done this before - some people are serial users/go through people. Harsh, but true.

If your DH feels adamant he needs to call CPS then he should be the one to do it - not you.


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## VisionaryMom

I would not call CPS. While it's not ideal to leave a child for 7 hours without contact, she didn't abuse or neglect her child. She used you. If you're able to research community resources, then that's going to have the same effect as a CPS call asking for resources. (And, in fact, in our area CPS is so understaffed that they can't really respond to individual calls for support ideas.) We do have a hotline through our women's shelter that has resources for various problems available. It's not a government agency, and they would take your name (for records purposes), not your friend's names. I volunteer with the hotline and we have gotten similar calls looking for resources for friends & family members. I would search out something like that first if I needed help finding info to give her. Chances are, though, that you can just find the information on your own.

I had really terrible PPD after DD was born. It went untreated for a long time, and I stopped sleeping. That made me paranoid. I ended up in a psychiatric hospital to get straightened out. We were in a new place, and I had nowhere to turn for support for just a few hours' reprieve. So from that angle, I am sympathetic. I can't imagine that I ever would have left my child without calling the person, but I understand how things like that happen and would think it would be especially bad if you're single with a sn child.


----------



## mamazee

I wouldn't call CPS unless I thought she'd like dumped her baby off so she could run out and do drugs or something. But stress and special needs, I'd sit down with her and help her research what resources are available to her.


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## sapphire_chan

My parent's policy on watching kids was that, unless it was arranged that the parent would be coming to get the child later, all kids in the house got put to bed at 9pm and parents could have their kid back at a decent hour of the morning, like 8 or 9am.

Of course, they told the kids' parents that in advance.

And if someone needed a sitter for "just a few hours" and they really needed the parent to come back on time so we could do other things, the parent would be warned that anything past however many hours would cost $15/hour (in a time and place when $5/hour was the going rate for babysitting.)


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## Evergreen

I wish she could have just said, "Hey, I'm going crazy here. Please can you watch my child for a few hours tonight so I can do just eat in peace and watch a movie. I really need you." And left diapers, clothes etc. The situation would have turned out soooo much differently.


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## crunchy_mommy

Wow.

I can't believe she did that to you. But unless you think her child is in some kind of danger, I wouldn't call CPS.

There was a day not long ago where I literally reached the end of my rope (was feeling suicidal). I wasn't able to talk about it even with DH. I would never just leave DS like that but I can understand if she was REALLY struggling that she may have been too embarrassed or overwhelmed or whatever to tell you the truth. I can't really sense from what you said (and maybe you can't sense either) whether she was truly desperate or whether she just thought it would be fun to get out & catch a movie. If it was the first, I'd try to be compassionate, but if it was the second, I'd have a hard time remaining friends with someone who took advantage of me like that.


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## newmomroxi

Wow, what an awful situation! I'm glad that your friend was ok but she definitely handled things in the wrong way. I think you need to look at this from her perspective before you decide what to do. I'm assuming she's single so care of her DD falls on her ALL THE TIME. My DH helps so much with our DS and I couldn't imagine not having him to turn to when I've lost patience. If she has no SO or family to help her on a regular basis then I can understand her getting to the point where she is stressed and at the end of her rope. Also, I can understand her not being able to be vulnerable and ask for help. I am that way; luckily, my family offers to watch DS a few hours every couple of months. Sometimes it is so hard to open up and ask for help.

I also don't think calling CPS should be the first thing you do. Our neighbors dog jumped the fence and attacked one of our dogs. We don't have a great relationship with the neighbors and when they said they would put a muzzle on it instead of removing it from their home, we called Animal Control. DH and I thought it would be best to have a third party come in and handle things. Well, that was a mistake. It took Animal control 2 weeks to even contact our neighbor. They did have the dog removed but they also decided to heftily fine our neighbor for God knows what and they are taking them to court next month. We don't agree at all with the way Animal Control has handled this but they don't care what we say. And our neighbors don't even acknowledge us anymore. So, CPS might be helpful but once you have spoken to them, you have no say in how things are handled. And you can bet that your friend will not be happy with you. If you really want to help her and her daughter, you should just talk to her about this whole thing and look for some community services like you planned.


----------



## limabean

How sad for everyone. The mom, for being so clearly overwhelmed and feeling unable to reach out for help. The poor little girl, for being dumped off with anxiety and no supplies instead of getting to view it as a fun sleepover at her friend's house. And the OP, for being so blatantly used and manipulated. Just sad.


----------



## texmati

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> I see this from 2 angles:
> 
> angle A) She knew you were a trusted friend, she was at the end of her rope mentally and emotionally and it was imperative that she get away from her child before she hurt her or did something she would regret. She knew she could trust you and she was afraid to say upfront just what she needed for fear you would say no or think she was silly.
> 
> Angle b) she knew you were a trusted friend and so she took advantage of your kindness to go off and do her own thing and be incredibly inconsiderate and selfish.
> 
> I think it would depend on the context of your friendship overall, which way I took it.
> 
> 
> 
> That. I personally wouldn't write off the friendship unless things like this a common occurrence. There is this idea in our society that mom's aren't supposed to ask for help which could have played a huge role in why she was dishonest. If it was a friend that I knew wasn't someone to just take advantage of people I would sit down with her and explain that I know it can be hard to ask for help but if she reaches the point where she really does feel the need to de-stress so much that she'd be willing to lie about that she can trust me to help her.
> 
> Before making any moves though, you should wait until you cool down too.
Click to expand...

really... I"m shocked! I woudln't do this to my own sister-- op mentioned they weren't even close friends. just appalling to not return the phone calls.


----------



## Juvysen

wow, OP so nice of you to try and help her find help after all that.


----------



## nextcommercial

I would let a week or so go by then tell her you are still mad that she used you like that. If you feel like she really needs parenting help, I'd find her some, then back away for a while.

Why on earth didn't she just say "If I don't get away from her, I'm going to lose my mind". ?? We all feel that way.

Do you think something else is going on? Like perhaps she wasn't actually at a movie and "other things"? I'm thinking of some illicit sex encounter that she is ashamed of and didn't want to tell you about... but, once she was there, she didn't want to leave either. If that's the case, I wouldn't tell you the TRUTH, but I'd come up with something better than her dumb stories.

Clearly, she didn't expect to be gone for so long, or she would have packed better and told you more information. She shouldn't have let you be stressed out for so many hours worrying about her. Even halfway through the thread I was imagining her being held hostage somewhere or worse. I hate when people make me worry.


----------



## Tigerchild

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> I wouldn't call CPS unless I thought she'd like dumped her baby off so she could run out and do drugs or something. But stress and special needs, I'd sit down with her and help her research what resources are available to her.


Well, she lied about what she was doing, and refused to make voice calls or accurate texts which might have given indication as to where she was. She KNEW that she was dumping off her kid for a "break" and so to continue the lie she didn't bring a pack of supplies just in case. Then she lied when she came back until the truth sort of came out (I'm unclear as to if she actually ADMITTED she just wanted a break or if OP read between the lines). How does anyone know that she wasn't "running out to do drugs or something"? Nobody does. It's not always super obvious.

That's the problem with lying. You don't know where it stops. Maybe she went out for a dinner and a movie, maybe she decided to go meet someone from Craigslist, maybe she decided to go smoke a joint and wait for awhile for the buzz to go down, maybe she went back home and slept for 7 hours for the first time in 2 years. The thing is, if someone is that desparate to not only lie to a caregiver about time she was going to be gone but also didn't even provide enough diapers for her kid (no one would have looked askance at extra diapers--"just in case" or "whoa, I stuffed some extras in there, didn't know there was some on the bottom"), to me they are veering off into dangerous territory and showing that they are not in a mentally safe place. This person lucked out by picking gbailey. But they still took a HUGE risk. And I don't think that it's fair to ask that gbailey should take full responsibility for it either (which is what hush hush don't tell is asking someone to do). Maybe she doesn't call CPS, but I think it's important that she does call in other community groups to help.


----------



## One_Girl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Although I am angry with her I think she is at the end of her rope which is why I am online finding some community resources that may be able to help her. My husband votes for CPS. My vote is to offer her something that may be able to help her and does not involve me watching her daughter. There were so many better ways for her to express needing some help other than pulling this b.s. I'm doing this more for her daughter but for her too. Maybe I'm a sucker but I can deal with that if it helps her.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am glad the mom is Ok. It sounds like she handled things really poorly - which makes me wonder if she was just at the end of her rope or a total narcissist.
Click to expand...

This is a frustrating situation to be in, but I think that if you are able to salvage the relationship you should give it a chance. It sounds like this was a one time thing and not a pattern. I have a friend who asks me to watch her son a few times a year and she is always a lot later than she says she will be when I do so, she is chronically late for everything so it isn't a surprise and it has never been a problem, she gets distracted by things and wrapped up in one thing then another and the time just flies. I can see going out for a little break then staying longer than you thought you would. I did that once with my dd when my mom was watching her, though I did call to make sure my mom was okay with it. I really was at the end of my sanity, I was a single mom, dealing with a divorce, burnt out on tantrums and always having to be patient. I am so glad my mom was there for me to be a support and even though my friend is chronically late I am happy to be her support because she is also a great mom, a really good friend, and reciprocates with child watching favors. If I thought she was abusive or neglectful I would report her in an instant because I really think children should be set above friendship. I think being late to pick up your child can be inconsiderate and annoying if they aren't expecting it and you haven't been upfront about what you are going to do, but it isn't abusive. I have never cared enough about the lateness to say anything, if you do you should address it from that angle and tell her you need her to be there to get her child when she says she will be. I think the lying wasn't a good thing, but it sounds like she is acting in ways that aren't characteristic right now and I think that your approach of giving her support is a generous one that a friend makes to a friend. I think you should tell her you were hurt that she lied to you and that you hope she views you as a friend she can talk to honestly.

She may feel like she really can't share her feelings with others because she is the only mom who has these feelings. Sharing some of your negative feelings about motherhood may help her branch out of feeling like she has to always be a certain way. It really helped me when I found out I wasn't the only one who had a kid throwing fits at four, or the only one still burnt out by that, my friends have also told me that they feel better knowing that I am dealing with the same struggles they are at other stages because I seem to be so patient and together. Sharing negative feelings shouldn't be something that always consumes your friendship, but it is nice to know that you aren't the only one who has them and I think that it can make a friendship nicer.


----------



## gbailey

Thanks for the great replies. I want to be make it clear, my husband doesn't want to call CPS because he's mad. Yes, he's mad but he wants to call CPS because he feels her actions make her a neglectful mother! I've asked him to cool his heels until the end of the week and reminded him that I don't believe CPS would take the matter seriously anyway. We're in NY and what she did isn't high on the list of what they consider neglectful.

My feeling is if she trusted that her daughter would be okay with me she should have trusted me to have asked me to keep her overnight. I'm not sure I believe her story or that she doesn't do this to other people she knows but I'll never know whether she does or doesn't. I have found some great resources for her. I will give her what I found and remind her that it's okay to ask for help if she needs it. I won't watch her DD again though. I can feel compassion for what she may be going through but I don't understand not calling back once I've said it's urgent. I can't care for a child without feeling confident the mom will call back if there was an emergency.

By handling this situation in the way that she did, she really messed up any chance of being able to count on me for giving her a break in the future. It's not okay for her to be able to count on me but not me being able to count on her.


----------



## Marsupialmom

I am going to vote CPS because if she does have a special needs child they can help her get services.

I would have also called sooner, but I had a friend in an accident and the call to police help cordonated what need to happen.

Also, I would worry about child abuse or neglect. Many people don't want to be involved or make excuses. I do not doubt this is the first time she did this. Nor the last.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Although I am angry with her I think she is at the end of her rope which is why I am online finding some community resources that may be able to help her. My husband votes for CPS. My vote is to offer her something that may be able to help her and does not involve me watching her daughter. There were so many better ways for her to express needing some help other than pulling this b.s. I'm doing this more for her daughter but for her too. Maybe I'm a sucker but I can deal with that if it helps her.


----------



## purslaine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Thanks for the great replies. I want to be make it clear, my husband doesn't want to call CPS because he's mad. Yes, he's mad but he wants to call CPS because he feels her actions make her a neglectful mother!


I know. I think early on in thread you seemed quite angry and frantic (understandable) - so it may have come across as you were thinking of calling because you were ticked, and also because you were unsure when an appropriate time to call was/is.

Reading the whole thread, though, it is quite clear that while you and your DH are mad, the struggle you are having is whether to call CPS now because what she did makes her an unfit mother.

I might hold off on calling until after you have had a chance to talk to her. Does she want help and is she open to contacting resources herself? If she is open to change, and know what she did was horrible, I would not call CPS. If she is in denial or seems to think it is OK to dump a child on a strong acquitance for 9 hours, I might make the call.

The cynic in me doubts CPS is going to care - they will think she left her in a responsible adults care (true). Being a user does not make one unfit (although repeatedly leaving your children with strangers, if you find out she does this, might).


----------



## bri276

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Thanks for the great replies. I want to be make it clear, my husband doesn't want to call CPS because he's mad. Yes, he's mad but he wants to call CPS because he feels her actions make her a neglectful mother! I've asked him to cool his heels until the end of the week and reminded him that I don't believe CPS would take the matter seriously anyway. We're in NY and what she did isn't high on the list of what they consider neglectful.
> 
> My feeling is if she trusted that her daughter would be okay with me she should have trusted me to have asked me to keep her overnight. I'm not sure I believe her story or that she doesn't do this to other people she knows but I'll never know whether she does or doesn't. I have found some great resources for her. I will give her what I found and remind her that it's okay to ask for help if she needs it. I won't watch her DD again though. I can feel compassion for what she may be going through but I don't understand not calling back once I've said it's urgent. I can't care for a child without feeling confident the mom will call back if there was an emergency.
> 
> By handling this situation in the way that she did, she really messed up any chance of being able to count on me for giving her a break in the future. It's not okay for her to be able to count on me but not me being able to count on her.


I agree with everything you've said. I can see why she chose you to leave her DD with...you seem very rational & responsible. Very unfortunate that she chose to take advantage rather than respectfully request help. I really think CPS would roll their eyes and hang up the phone. We don't like to think about it, but there are children out there being horrifically abused and neglected. Not "late to pick up for babysitting" neglected- starving and sitting in their dirty diapers for days neglected. This child is normally cared for well, there's really no evidence (yes, tons of speculation and conjecture, even I wonder if mom is on drugs or something, but no hard evidence) that she's done anything illegal or that CPS needs to check it out. I also have a child with SN who has similar behaviors to the throwing and hitting when she gets tired or upset and it does take a lot of patience...I can't imagine myself doing anything remotely like this but I don't think it's CPS worthy if it's the only instance of less than stellar parenting you're aware of.


----------



## gbailey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Thanks for the great replies. I want to be make it clear, my husband doesn't want to call CPS because he's mad. Yes, he's mad but he wants to call CPS because he feels her actions make her a neglectful mother!
> 
> 
> 
> I know. I think early on in thread you seemed quite angry and frantic (understandable) - so it may have come across as you were thinking of calling because you were ticked, and also because you were unsure when an appropriate time to call was/is.
> 
> Reading the whole thread, though, it is quite clear that while you and your DH are mad, the struggle you are having is whether to call CPS now because what she did makes her an unfit mother.
> 
> I might hold off on calling until after you have had a chance to talk to her. Does she want help and is she open to contacting resources herself? If she is open to change, and know what she did was horrible, I would not call CPS. If she is in denial or seems to think it is OK to dump a child on a strong acquitance for 9 hours, I might make the call.
> 
> The cynic in me doubts CPS is going to care - they will think she left her in a responsible adults care (true). Being a user does not make one unfit (although repeatedly leaving your children with strangers, if you find out she does this, might).
Click to expand...

The cynic in me agrees with you. I don't think CPS would do a thing and truthfully all DH has is, "she never called to check in,came hours late and lied." While all of that is bad, it's not I think CPS would think is grounds for an investigation. Let's hope she receives the resource information well.


----------



## karne

I don't know if this feels too intrusive, but I wonder if you know who the pedi the mom uses is, perhaps a call to the office saying that you have a concern? Thee may be a caring nurse practitioner or physician with a relationship to mom/child, and perhaps that would be a way for someone to assess and offer some real support. I don't know if I missed what the SN's are with the child, but my guess is that this might heighten the sense that the family needs support.

The child is very fortunate to have been with you, but still, mom showed extremely poor judgement.


----------



## Organique Gal

My son was in daycare for a couple years, and their policy was that if you were more than 30 minutes late picking your child up they called CPS because you had essentially abandoned your child. I always thought it was a bit excessive, but in hindsight it certainly ensured nobody took advantage of them.


----------



## nextcommercial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Organique Gal*
> 
> My son was in daycare for a couple years, and their policy was that if you were more than 30 minutes late picking your child up they called CPS because you had essentially abandoned your child. I always thought it was a bit excessive, but in hindsight it certainly ensured nobody took advantage of them.


I worked at a daycare center in the 80s that had to do that ALL. THE. TIME. I was amazed at how many people would just show up hours after the daycare closed and be surprised that they had to go find them at the police station. (this was years before cell phones) Usually it was just a miscommunication between mom and dad... then they'd both show up at home for a nice dinner and then realize nobody picked up the kids. Occasionally it was an alcohol related incident. Fortunately it was never a car accident on the way home.

How'd we ever live without cell phones?


----------



## childsplay

While I completely agree that she needs some outside help and community resources, I think overall she's selfish and immature.

She had no way of knowing for absolute sure that her child would even be there when she got back. The OP could have called CPS, she could have loaded the child in the car and dropped her off at the police station, she could have had prior evening engagements and took the child along. But the fact is, the mother didn't give a hoot.

She texted because she didn't have the nerve to call, then she shut her phone off.

While there's nothing in the world wrong with calling your friend/relative and saying "OMG, if I don't get out of here, away from this child I'm going to lose it completely" then dropping the said child off with a loaded bag of supplies and a big thank you so much, there is something wrong with lying and abandonment.

I would call CPS. Not to report the fact that she abandoned her child, but that she needs immediate help/resourses for herself and her child. And I'd tell her I'm doing it so she's not surprised.


----------



## MusicianDad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Organique Gal*
> 
> My son was in daycare for a couple years, and their policy was that if you were more than 30 minutes late picking your child up they called CPS because you had essentially abandoned your child. I always thought it was a bit excessive, but in hindsight it certainly ensured nobody took advantage of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I worked at a daycare center in the 80s that had to do that ALL. THE. TIME. I was amazed at how many people would just show up hours after the daycare closed and be surprised that they had to go find them at the police station. (this was years before cell phones) Usually it was just a miscommunication between mom and dad... then they'd both show up at home for a nice dinner and then realize nobody picked up the kids. Occasionally it was an alcohol related incident. Fortunately it was never a car accident on the way home.
> 
> How'd we ever live without cell phones?
Click to expand...

Well... There was a time when people actually communicated and made sure everyone understood what they were meant to do and had it written down if they thought they might forget...

I do think only giving 30 minutes before calling in CPS because of abandonment is excessive. CPS has to much to do all ready, they don't need some school official calling in a bogus abandonment claims.


----------



## bri276

You have to draw the line somewhere or people end up staying late after work to babysit for free. My mom was one that was always late and never called, even though our family had car phones pretty early on. In retrospect, I actually wish the schools would have had that policy. Maybe ending up in the police station would have shown her that other adults viewed what she was doing as wrong or at least been embarrassing enough to manage her time better. Instead I have plenty of memories of standing on curbs feeling very alone, trying not to cry as every other child was picked up and I stood there wondering if my mom forgot me (it was normally a more punctual nanny or a relative instead, luckily). The only good I can say that came out of that experience is that I'm always early when it comes to picking up my kids, even though I'm usually a bit late for everything else!


----------



## MusicianDad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bri276*
> 
> You have to draw the line somewhere or people end up staying late after work to babysit for free. My mom was one that was always late and never called, even though our family had car phones pretty early on. In retrospect, I actually wish the schools would have had that policy. Maybe ending up in the police station would have shown her that other adults viewed what she was doing as wrong or at least been embarrassing enough to manage her time better. Instead I have plenty of memories of standing on curbs feeling very alone, trying not to cry as every other child was picked up and I stood there wondering if my mom forgot me (it was normally a more punctual nanny or a relative instead, luckily). The only good I can say that came out of that experience is that I'm always early when it comes to picking up my kids, even though I'm usually a bit late for everything else!


There are other ways to do that without putting more burden on an all ready over burdened system. CPS has to investigate every claim. Even the ones that come off as bogus. Around here most day cares make it clear that what you pay for initially is not an unlimited number of daycare hours and if you are late picking your child up, you will be charged for the extra time. Parents would rather be on time then pay extra.


----------



## Organique Gal

Abandoning your children when you know a facility is closing is not bogus.


----------



## MusicianDad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Organique Gal*
> 
> Abandoning your children when you know a facility is closing is not bogus.


Calling it abandonment because the parent in 30 minutes late is bogus. For all you know said parent left work with enough time to arrive before closing but got stuck in a massive traffic jam because of an accident. Or they were in the accident. Really, how would it feel to be told "Sorry you were stuck in traffic but we call the cops on you because you were 30 minutes late" or "Sorry you wife died in a car accident, but we called CPS because she didn't pick the kids up on time".


----------



## A&A

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bri276*
> 
> You have to draw the line somewhere or people end up staying late after work to babysit for free.


Most daycares around here charge a per-minute fee for being late.


----------



## Organique Gal

You're assuming the daycare people are robots with no mercy. Of course they are going to try calling the parents and trying to reach their back up people first... But I do think that in the context of this thread, the OP had every right to call the police and/or CPS.


----------



## MusicianDad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Organique Gal*
> 
> You're assuming the daycare people are robots with no mercy. Of course they are going to try calling the parents and trying to reach their back up people first... But I do think that in the context of this thread, the OP had every right to call the police and/or CPS.


Yeah but the OP's friend was 7 hours late. Not 30 minutes. 30 minutes doesn't warrant a call to the authorities.


----------



## wytchywoman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Organique Gal*
> 
> Abandoning your children when you know a facility is closing is not bogus.
> 
> 
> 
> Calling it abandonment because the parent in 30 minutes late is bogus. For all you know said parent left work with enough time to arrive before closing but got stuck in a massive traffic jam because of an accident. Or they were in the accident. Really, how would it feel to be told "Sorry you were stuck in traffic but we call the cops on you because you were 30 minutes late" or "Sorry you wife died in a car accident, but we called CPS because she didn't pick the kids up on time".
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Organique Gal*
> 
> You're assuming the daycare people are robots with no mercy. Of course they are going to try calling the parents and trying to reach their back up people first... But I do think that in the context of this thread, the OP had every right to call the police and/or CPS.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Organique Gal*
> 
> You're assuming the daycare people are robots with no mercy. Of course they are going to try calling the parents and trying to reach their back up people first... But I do think that in the context of this thread, the OP had every right to call the police and/or CPS.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah but the OP's friend was 7 hours late. Not 30 minutes. 30 minutes doesn't warrant a call to the authorities.
Click to expand...

There is a difference though in being late to pick up a kid from a friends house and being late to pick up a kid from school or day care. I've taught in daycare situations and had to be the one to call CPS. Mom was out with her friends and simply didn't want to pick up her daughter. That's not OK. Ever. I also was a teacher at school who ended up staying for three hours after school ended, because the baby sitter mom had hired to care for her son didn't show up, and didn't answer the phone. We called mom and dad and grandma several times trying to find someone who could take custody of the student. Finally my principal got involved and left a very curt message saying that if we didn't hear back within ten minutes the police would be called. Guess who we heard from right away? You guessed it. Mom! Who really couldn't understand why we were so unhappy to have stayed three hours after school watching her son. And PS....I was supposed to take my own son to a dr's appointment that day and had to cancel because I was stuck at school with a student for an extra three hours.

Daycare teachers often have their own kids that they need to go pick up, or get home to. Like it or not, when you put a child in daycare, you agree to abide by their hours. It's the same as any other business. You can't insist that a store or restaurant continue to provide service after hours, so why a daycare? It sucks that there are people in the world who don't "get" that the kid needs to come first, and part of growing up and being a parent is learning to put your child's needs ahead of yours, but these people are who they are.
It's really not fair or responsible for anyone in this position, paid or unpaid, to be taken advantage of like that. As far as the car accident scenario, one parent is stuck in traffic, or on their way to the hospital, that is why you have more than one person listed on the blue card who is ok to pick up your kid in an emergency. It's not like teachers watch the clock and then call CPS right away. We all certainly try very hard to find a friend or family member to take the child so that the police and cps don't have to get involved.


----------



## Imogen

I've only read the first page of responses to your original post. But the thought did cross my mind whether it was related to her feeling stressed and needing some time away. Completely understandable, we all need that at times. Her error and it's a big one, was not communicating that to you and your husband.

Sometimes when our stress levels are so high, the ability to think rationally and responsibly is almost non-existent. I'm not condoning what she did and it was obviously incredibly frustrating for both you and your partner, but I do feel for her too, she's obviously struggling. And I think that it's wonderful that you are helping her further by exploring the resources that are possibly available for her ( I read a little more of the thread).

Peace


----------



## [email protected]

I wonder if this mom is begging for some kind of intervention. Maybe on some level she would like for CPS or inpatient psychiatry to take over, for that was a pretty desperate move on her part. Like someone else mentioned, either she's an extreme narcissist or incredibly depressed and overwhelmed. If she's depressed, hopefully it hasn't reached the point of suicidal ideation. She effectively abandoned her kid, so something major is going on and can't be ignored.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mekat*
> 
> I'm the mother of a special needs child and have an ex that got addicted to crack cocaine. It started off with stress, then depression and then seeking mental help. When the mental health system didn't help him fast enough he tried drugs. Money would go missing, he would disappear without notice for hours on end even when he was supposed to home to watch ds so I could work, he had new friends but wouldn't tell me anything about them etc... Honestly this story is bringing back memories of my marriage a few months before I kicked him out and hired an attorney to get total custody and decision making over my child's care. I'm not saying that is what happening in this case but if your husband's instincts are screaming at him I think you both owe it to the little girl to let someone know and investigate.
> 
> I'm sorry but I just don't find her actions to be of a mother thinking clearly; either her thinking is muddled by stress and mental issues that can result or her thinking may be impaired by some substance but something is seriously impairing her judgment and that alone is reason enough to have her investigated. Please remember one thing if it is substance abuse addicts are excellent liars. Even to the day I kicked my ex out, he was still coming up with excuse after excuse after excuse of how this was my fault and our four year old's fault basically everybody under the sun was to blame but him. I didn't know at the time he was an addict, I found out a few months later after I kicked him out. The only thing I knew for sure at that point in time was that he was mentally unbalanced, putting my son in danger and a liar. I knew he was lying I just didn't know what the truth was and he refused to speak the truth, just told me what ever he thought I wanted to hear and if I confronted him with his behavior it only kicked off a new round of excuses and blaming everybody but himself.


I would go w/ this post. It's not something you want to believe is true, but it's very possible. For the sake of the child, I would call authorities.


----------



## gbailey

I met with the mom this morning and honestly,I think she needs an intervention. Truthfully, I don't feel comfortable calling CPS but feel like I have to call somebody or do something. The mom needs some help and her sweet DD needs some resources to assist her in whatever her issues are. Originally the mom was supposed to be taking her to a special Pre K program for kids with SN but she is convinced nothing is wrong with her child. Anyhoo, we met at the park.I suggested the park because they are doing work in our building and the noise will cause her DD to freak out. Her DD left a book at our place and I thought it would be the perfect opportunity to return it and chat with the mom a bit.

The park is pretty empty in the morning and the noises that usually bother her wouldn't be an issue. We pushed the kids on the swing and I brought up what happened the other night. She said she was sorry but really needed a break and repeated the same thing she told us when she picked up her daughter. I reminded her that it's okay to ask for help and if she trusts her DD with me she could have just told me she needed me to keep her over night. Her attitude was very shrug the shoulders, whatever kind of thing. The swing my daughter was on started to squeak and her daughter stuck her fingers in her ear and started to cry. I told her we could sit on the bench if the noise was bothering her. She said her daughter would be fine and she needs to get used to hearing noises. I told her I was tired of pushing anyway and DD needed a snack and I brought enough for her DD if she was okay with them sharing. She complained that she has been keeping her too sheltered by not going places because she fears a tantrum. They went to Chuck E. Cheese and for two hours she stuck her fingers in her ear and cried until they left. Why she subjected the child and the other party goers to that I have no idea. She took her to a Yo Gabba Dabba live show and she said her daughter stuck her fingers in her ears and screamed the entire time. I asked her what the hearing doc said about it. The doctor told her the hearing test was fine but suspect a sensory issue and recommended she follow up with the surgeon who performed the daughters surgery for hydrocephalus and follow up with the primary ped.She hasn't done this yet. She's tired of people assuming something is wrong with her daughter because she is speech delayed. The sticking the fingers in the ear and screaming is a habit, flapping of the arms when she's excited it just a habit, taking off her diaper and playing and smearing feces all over herself is just a habit. There are things I've witnessed myself about her DD that would require more resources than just the mom and the speech pathologist but I've minded my own business. I know I have no idea what the mom is going thorugh. I also am not an expert.

Her DD tried to take a cracker from my DD and the mom apologized profusely. I told her it was no big deal and offered her DD some more crackers. She went on and on about being embarassed about it. I really don't want to go into details about the rest of the visit because it's depressing.The only thing I will say is her daughter needs help and I believe the mother may be mentally ill. Whether it's something she's been suffering through for years I have no idea but I believe her daughter needs help and so does she.

Is there anyway I can help the mother other than calling CPS? She seems lost and like another poster mentioned, I think she wants someone to intervene.


----------



## angelpie545

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any community resource that is able to meet her need except CPS. No other organization has the legal power to ensure proper action is taken. It's a tough call, and I can completely understand where you are coming from, because I've been in a similar situation with a friend. She was/is a little SN herself, and had a son that is slightly SN as well. She seemed to have a tough time accepting that B (her son) needed help. She would keep B out in the car until 3am, rationalizling that it was ok since he could sleep in the car. There ended up being several calls to CPS. Nothing much came of it except that B ended up in daycare, which IMO helped. My friend is now doing very well, is engaged, has another child, and B is thriving as well, getting the services he needs. Even though CPS didn't do much themselves I wonder if getting them called may have let her know that people DO care to make sure that B was safe. Your friend might need a similar wake-up call. If she's otherwise a good parent I don't think there is much of a chance that her daughter will get removed, but CPS will probably offer her resources and help that she may not have sought otherwise. Did you let her know that you do feel that her daughter could use some help? Sometimes that's a tough thing to say to people but hearing it from a friend can make a difference. She may be angry at first, but she'll cool down and may eventually thank you for saying something.


----------



## karanyavel

On one hand, my mom had a similar thing happen in a babysitting situation and she DID call the police after the mother was several hours late. They found the child's mother several days later in another state.. she had literally abandoned her child. I think the grandparents got custody.

On the other hand, no one showed up to pick me up from school when I was 8 or 9 years old once and someone stayed late at school (the principal I think) to watch me and try to get ahold of my parents. It only happened once and it was because my brother (8 years older than me) was supposed to pick me up but "forgot" because he was hanging out with his girlfriend. Needless to say, my parents were *pissed* (at my brother) and picked me up personally from that point forward.

I probably would have called the cops in the original situation. Not sure how I'd react now -- other than trying to get that little girl some help -- but I wouldn't be babysitting for free again!

--K


----------



## AtYourCervices

It sounds to me like she needs to find a group of strong, open minded mamas who also have special needs kids. She needs to see more people being proactive about their child's needs, rather than ignore it. She needs to see there's nothing to be ashamed about, and people don't think less of her if her child has special needs. I think a lot of times, women who have children with special needs feel like they're being judged negatively b/c of it. Some feel guilt because they didn't do everything perfectly during pregnancy. They see this little part of themselves, that looks like them, smiles like them, and acts like them... and the child may have an IQ below the norm or may not articulate themselves clearly and be perceived as being below average. The mother may internalize this, feeling that she comes across the same way. She in turn tries to protect her child, believing there is nothing wrong with the child because she doesn't want to admit anything might be wrong with her. Being that you suspect the mother has some mental health issues, I'm just assuming this may be the case.

Are there any local parenting magazines that include information on local resources? If so, take a look at the most recent issue and find something in the magazine (unrelated to your actual concerns) that you feel may be of interest to the mother (even something as simple as a healthy recipe you try and enjoy). Next time you see her, have the magazine ready to show her. Go on about the advertisements for local events, schools, etc. Point out the advertisements for resources you think will actually benefit her, and get really excited about her checking it out. Follow up with her in a couple days. If you know anybody who used that resource and had great things to say about it, during the follow up is time to bring it up.

Good luck!


----------



## APToddlerMama

In general, I am not for calling CPS. However, this mother is in some serious denial and it may be that the only way for her child to get help is for you to call CPS. Chances are, CPS is going to totally screen out your call and do nothing (I'm a social worker). But, maybe they won't and maybe it will get her to at least follow up with some of the specialists. I can almost promise you they aren't going to do anything dramatic, unless there are serious issues that you know nothing about.

A great book for sensory issues that might help her understand what is going on with her DD is The Out of Sync Child. Maybe you could just say someone you know who has a kid with sensory issues had read it and got some great stuff out of it for her kid (We "know" each other from this thread now, right?) Poor, poor, baby. It is so tough on kids to have these special needs and then have their parent not understand them. Good luck....


----------



## Eyelet

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *AtYourCervices*
> 
> It sounds to me like she needs to find a group of strong, open minded mamas who also have special needs kids. She needs to see more people being proactive about their child's needs, rather than ignore it. She needs to see there's nothing to be ashamed about, and people don't think less of her if her child has special needs. I think a lot of times, women who have children with special needs feel like they're being judged negatively b/c of it.












It sounds like this mom would greatly benefit from joining a support group.

I'm obviously not in a position to diagnose anyone, but as a mother of two children on the autism spectrum I can say this little girl is showing many red flags for also being on the spectrum, or at the very least, SPD. If this mom hasn't already, she really needs to find a competent neurologist/psychologist to evaluate her daughter and seek appropriate services from there.

I can understand being in denial to an extent, but the bottom line is you're doing your child a great disservice if you refuse to step out of your bubble and you're ultimately setting yourself up for disaster.

OP: I think you're very sweet to want to continue to help this mom and her DD after what she did to you.


----------



## MeepyCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Organique Gal*
> 
> You're assuming the daycare people are robots with no mercy. Of course they are going to try calling the parents and trying to reach their back up people first... But I do think that in the context of this thread, the OP had every right to call the police and/or CPS.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah but the OP's friend was 7 hours late. Not 30 minutes. 30 minutes doesn't warrant a call to the authorities.
Click to expand...

My daycare has really strict late policies - a dollar a minute after hours, and a call to the cops at 2 hours past closing. But honestly? It let me play the daycare as the bad cop in work situations - "gee boss, you know I'd love to stay, but my daycare will call CPS on me..." - and that was a huge help. I wouldn't have minded if they'd put the deadline earlier. I just want to point out that these policies can be good for parents.

The director and teachers at my daycare are very reasonable people, they have an extensive list of people they can call if I fail to show up, and I know of at one incident where a parent didn't make it to the school until 8 p.m. and they didn't call. In that case, traffic was epically bad (the entire city choked up in a snowstorm), and the parent was on the phone to the DCP giving them updates as often as he could.


----------



## Smithie

"Is there anyway I can help the mother other than calling CPS? She seems lost and like another poster mentioned, I think she wants someone to intervene."

You can call CPS. My opinion is that CPS is not going to do anything about his level of neglect unless you are lucky enough to get in contact with an exceptionally proactive worker.

But what you REALLY need to do is cut ties with this situation. There is a subcriminal level of neglect going on and you don't want to expose your kids to it, and you don't need the stress of it in your lives. Imagine if the issue were not SPD/ASD related, but simply a lot of corporal punishment that you had to witness and/or hear about. That would be a subcriminal level of violence, you wouldn't want your kids exposed to it, and you'd end the relationship with the mom.


----------



## crunchy_mommy

I think it all depends on how vested you are in this friendship & in helping her & her daughter.

If you are 'done' with the relationship (and I certainly wouldn't blame you!) then yeah, call CPS... basically, let someone else (professionals) handle it so you don't have to continue feeling some kind of responsibility for this situation.

I really can relate to the mother in this situation (though I would never just drop my kid off & not come back)... so coming from that perspective, I would be heartbroken if you called CPS on me, and I think it would add extra stress to my life. What would be most helpful if it were me, would be a phone call, Hey my DH will watch your DD & mine, let's go get a coffee or something. And then lots of time to chat & try to see if you can pinpoint *her* problem, whether she's depressed or mentally ill or just really stressed. If you can, print out local resources for therapists, programs for SN, checklists for SPD, and things like that for her DD, as well as things for the mom like info on a mother's support group... However all that is a lot to ask of a friend (especially a friend who's already been lied to & taken advantage of), so if you don't have it in you to do that, don't! But that's what I think would help her -- having a break to chat, knowing a friend cared enough to print out all these resources, having someone help come up with a plan of action.....


----------



## gbailey

Again, thanks for the great responses. DH and I decided not to call CPS. If I felt they were going to do something I would have called on Friday but I don't think they will. After talking to the mom at the park, I really just don't want to deal with her. I didn't even feel comfortable leaving DD with her while I went to the bathroom. I took my DD with me. If she's so lax with the care of her own child, I can't imagine how lax she would be with my baby.

Crunch_Mommy, I gave her alot of resources she can use though if she wants. I really hope she does.They are some great places too. Part of me feels like a bad person for not wanting to deal with her but I don't want or need the added stress. I think I've done what I can do and now I guess I have to just hope for the best for her DD and hope her mom gets whatever help she might need to help her take care of the things she needs to take care of for her DD.


----------



## crunchy_mommy

Definitely don't feel bad!! You helped her child in a time of need & even gave mom resources... just move on now, no need in getting further sucked into that mess as long as no one is in danger or anything! Hopefully she will follow through with the resources you pointed her toward!


----------



## nola79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Again, thanks for the great responses. DH and I decided not to call CPS. If I felt they were going to do something I would have called on Friday but I don't think they will. After talking to the mom at the park, I really just don't want to deal with her. I didn't even feel comfortable leaving DD with her while I went to the bathroom. I took my DD with me. If she's so lax with the care of her own child, I can't imagine how lax she would be with my baby.
> 
> Crunch_Mommy, I gave her alot of resources she can use though if she wants. I really hope she does.They are some great places too. Part of me feels like a bad person for not wanting to deal with her but I don't want or need the added stress. I think I've done what I can do and now I guess I have to just hope for the best for her DD and hope her mom gets whatever help she might need to help her take care of the things she needs to take care of for her DD.


I totally understand you not wanting to deal with her, and, honestly, I wouldn't either. I'm glad you gave her the info on some resources and you should not feel bad AT ALL.

However, I do feel like you are doing her dd a disservice by not contacting CPS. You did give her resources but you cannot make her follow through, whereas CPS most probably could. I mean, the mom has possible mental illness and is not getting her dd the care she needs, and someone needs to intervene.

I did notice you said that you didn't feel like CPS in your area could really do anything, though, so maybe it's different where I live vs. where you live. (I have had to call on a friend in the past, and that's where I'm coming from).

It's just a tough situation all around.


----------



## Ellien C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> I can't care for a child without feeling confident the mom will call back if there was an emergency.
> 
> By handling this situation in the way that she did, she really messed up any chance of being able to count on me for giving her a break in the future. It's not okay for her to be able to count on me but not me being able to count on her.


Good for you for setting boudaries. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

You're setting a good example for a lot of people who get taken advantage of.


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## LROM

I totally agree with the post that said while it's understandable that you yourself are "done" with this mom (and I don't blame you at all for feeling that way), I also agree you are doing her dd a disservice as you've recognized that that child is not having her needs met.

I really related to your initial concern about the wellbeing, present and future, for that child... have you considered calling CPS and basically sharing your concerns initially without necessarily reporting the mom, just to see what they think and what they might be able to do?

I always worry when people rule out calling CPS in their locality without specific or accurate info about how their CPS operates. For all I know, where you live it might not even get screened in (accepted as a report) if you report it, but that child sounds like she's got a mom who probably really needs some help with her parenting, and a child with specific needs that most likely are going unmet, and my heart just breaks for that child if there is something your local CPS can do but no one's calling them to give them the chance to help this mom.

I'm not a pollyanna, I don't know anything about CPS where you are and how good a response the family and child get often comes down to the caseworker assigned to the case. But a good or even mediocre caseworker can usually help put in at least some needed resources and to not do anything in response to your initial concerns about the child... I just wonder if maybe you could get more info about your local CPS *directly* from CPS maybe you'd be able to make a more informed choice about report/not reporting? Just my .02cents...


----------



## [email protected]

I agree w/ nola and LROM -- it may be highly uncomfortable for you, but this little girl could be living in a really bad situation that warrants intervention.


----------



## Butterflykate

speechless, please call CPS and at least get advice on the situation, you don't need to name-names but they do have better local resources. If your friend is really at the end of her tether she will need that help now not yesterday.


----------



## gbailey

I called the police last night after I got an alarming text from the mother telling me she was "sick of the da*n child playing in her sh*t" and she wishes she could just drop her off somewhere and leave her there." I called her right away and she didn't answer. I texted her back telling her to bring DD over here with a change of clothes. No response. So I called the precint I know is closest to her place. The response? To call ACS in the morning. Sounded like a mom who just needed a break. *rolling eyes* I call her again and leave her a message telling her she can bring her daughter over here to spend the night. No reponse. I text her and let her know I have no choice but to call ACS if she doesn't respond. Her response, "go ahead and call." I called this morning.


----------



## nextcommercial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> I called the police last night after I got an alarming text from the mother telling me she was "sick of the da*n child playing in her sh*t" and she wishes she could just drop her off somewhere and leave her there." I called her right away and she didn't answer. I texted her back telling her to bring DD over here with a change of clothes. No response. So I called the precint I know is closest to her place. The response? To call ACS in the morning. Sounded like a mom who just needed a break. *rolling eyes* I call her again and leave her a message telling her she can bring her daughter over here to spend the night. No reponse. I text her and let her know I have no choice but to call ACS if she doesn't respond. Her response, "go ahead and call." I called this morning.


That poor mom! I hope she brings the child to you before she makes a bad choice. I bet she's already said really mean things to her daughter. I feel bad for the child, but horrible for the mom. I can't imagine what would drive me to that point, and I think she really needs someone to help her. That sad thing is, you WOULD help her. I wish she would have talked openly to you first.


----------



## gbailey

DH was on board with letting her DD stay here for more than just overnight but since she's refusing help it makes me feel like she and the child are in dire straits.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nextcommercial*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> I called the police last night after I got an alarming text from the mother telling me she was "sick of the da*n child playing in her sh*t" and she wishes she could just drop her off somewhere and leave her there." I called her right away and she didn't answer. I texted her back telling her to bring DD over here with a change of clothes. No response. So I called the precint I know is closest to her place. The response? To call ACS in the morning. Sounded like a mom who just needed a break. *rolling eyes* I call her again and leave her a message telling her she can bring her daughter over here to spend the night. No reponse. I text her and let her know I have no choice but to call ACS if she doesn't respond. Her response, "go ahead and call." I called this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> That poor mom! I hope she brings the child to you before she makes a bad choice. I bet she's already said really mean things to her daughter. I feel bad for the child, but horrible for the mom. I can't imagine what would drive me to that point, and I think she really needs someone to help her. That sad thing is, you WOULD help her. I wish she would have talked openly to you first.
Click to expand...


----------



## journeymom

You did the right thing. I hope if you have the opportunity to talk to her again you will be blunt. She's the type who needs blunt and specific talk. Tell her specifically which of her daughter's behaviors are concerning. Tell her she is in denial, that her daughter needs professional help and that she, mom, is in over her head. You can be kind, too. Tell her that we all need help, we all get overwhelmed.

You already mentioned that she's not a close friend. I think sometimes we fail to do the most helpful thing, honestly spelling out in simple terms what the deal is, for fear of 'losing a friendship'. I don't think you're doing this, you seem like a straight up kind of gal, but I just want to encourage you to put this girl's needs over any sort of social niceness or fear of confrontation. The mom might get huffy with you. That's OK.

And don't choose to just keep taking the girl in, instead of encouraging mom to see the light and get herself some help. Ultimately what would be best for the little girl is for her mom to take her head out of her butt, get some help so she can help her daughter.


----------



## tink79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> I called the police last night after I got an alarming text from the mother telling me she was "sick of the da*n child playing in her sh*t" and she wishes she could just drop her off somewhere and leave her there." I called her right away and she didn't answer. I texted her back telling her to bring DD over here with a change of clothes. No response. So I called the precint I know is closest to her place. The response? To call ACS in the morning. Sounded like a mom who just needed a break. *rolling eyes* I call her again and leave her a message telling her she can bring her daughter over here to spend the night. No reponse. I text her and let her know I have no choice but to call ACS if she doesn't respond. Her response, "go ahead and call." I called this morning.


Wow.









Hope the ACS does something before she does, she sounds like she may have cracked.


----------



## GuildJenn

You did the right thing. Thank you for being part of this child's village.


----------



## Dar

Yes. It almost sounds like she knew she was in over her head and wanted someone to call the authorities... like she knew she needed help but couldn't call them on her own, and knew you would be the grown-up and make sure her kid was looked after.


----------



## Kristine233

Thank you mama for being there for her and her child even though you'd rather write her off. My guess is that you are her "safe person", she trusts you and knows you may see what's going uneven if she doesn't want to admit it out loud herself. She is crying out for help, otherwise she wouldn't have texted those things to you. I think you did the right thing in calling.

She may not respond to you now that she outted herself to you, at least not right away. She's probably embarrassed that she is losing control of herself and can't handle her child's issues. Hopefully she'll come around and be open to help if CPS gets involved or does come to you for help.


----------



## LROM

OP you did what you had to do, and I'm another one here who is so so grateful on behalf of that child AND that mom that you did call CPS.

Any news? What happened when you called and did they screen it in? Have you heard anything from the mom since then?

Whatever happens, you've been thoughtful and careful and tried so hard to weigh all the considerations at each step... I hope it's ultimately a good outcome for all involved, but whatever happened you did your best and no one can ask more than that.

Also want to add, your initial response to her alarming text was excellent. To offer to take her child, no questions asked, just to give her breathing room (and hopefully prevent her from doing something awful or more awful) was a generous, caring, wonderful thing to do for both child and mom. It's really too bad she was so deep in her stuff that she couldn't take you up on that and give a little relief to herself and her child.

I really hope somehow CPS is responsive and able to truly help that family.


----------



## beenmum

I think maybe we are overreacting a bit.

NM. I read the rest of the messages and this mum needed help. However at the OP it didnt seem like she had abused or abandoned her child per se.


----------



## SubliminalDarkness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> I think maybe we are overreacting a bit.
> 
> MAybe she had a trauma and she needs a couple hours just to let her mind soak up what happened. I guess I cant see the calling the police reason if you have heard from her.
> 
> Maybe she needs something to eat and to just sit for a moment before picking up her SN kid. Kids, espcially SN kids pick up on your moods. And if she was overwhelmed then the child would be harder to steele and may react strongly. She knows her kid.
> 
> Give her the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> I would hate if I left my child with my friend b/c my dad just died that that friend would call the police b/c I neede time to compose myself.


For SEVEN hours beyond the time agreed on? And ignoring urgent text messages and calls? No, I don't think so.


----------



## laohaire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SubliminalDarkness*
> 
> For SEVEN hours beyond the time agreed on? And ignoring urgent text messages and calls? No, I don't think so.


And not merely ignoring urgent text messages - but saying "oh, I'm just getting a bite to eat" all blase.

But this is already a thing of the past, there's new stuff. This whole thread makes me so sad for that little girl I could cry, I really mean that. Just thinking about her having to cry for 2-3 hours while her mom exposed her to an environment she could not cope with because of SN... having to cry for that long would make me physically ill. And her mom probably yelled at her about it to boot.


----------



## beenmum

I read further and I agree that the OP did what she should have done.

But yes, on the surface this looked like a mum of a SN kid who needed a break. And you know it is so much HARDER when you have a SN kid to ask for help.

1 whiff that you are not completely happy and carefree with your childs disability you are on the radar of CPS. You ask fo rhelp, people assume you cant handle a SN kid and you are on the CPS radar.

Parents of SN kids are held to a different standard then those of NT kids. Its a fact. CPS agrees.

Having both worked for foster care, worked with SN kids and had my own, I have seen a mum who just needed a break and some quite time be ridiculed whereas the mum who goes out to the movies with friends is not.

However, THAT mum needs help.


----------



## laohaire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beenmum*
> 
> I read further and I agree that the OP did what she should have done.
> 
> But yes, on the surface this looked like a mum of a SN kid who needed a break. And you know it is so much HARDER when you have a SN kid to ask for help.
> 
> 1 whiff that you are not completely happy and carefree with your childs disability you are on the radar of CPS. You ask fo rhelp, people assume you cant handle a SN kid and you are on the CPS radar.
> 
> Parents of SN kids are held to a different standard then those of NT kids. Its a fact. CPS agrees.
> 
> Having both worked for foster care, worked with SN kids and had my own, I have seen a mum who just needed a break and some quite time be ridiculed whereas the mum who goes out to the movies with friends is not.
> 
> However, THAT mum needs help.


I get your point, but if you needed a break and felt you could not be honest about it - you still would have, say, left some diapers for your diapered child, right? You know? Packed a diaper bag with the basics. Lied if you felt you had to - "Oh, I just keep her diaper bag with everything, you never know when you'll need it!"

You might have, say, called back after getting an urgent message and said "I am very sorry about this, but this is taking longer than I thought. I'm not sure when I can be there. Is DD ok? Can I touch base with you again in a while? I really appreciate all your help." Instead of "oh, I'm having a bite to eat." Right??


----------



## gbailey

Nothing from the mom but I feel I will hear from her again. When I spoke to ACS they told me I should have called 911 after getting the text message about wanting to leave her somewhere. She was surprised the police didn't think it was worth going to her place to at least check on her DD. It usually takes 24 hrs. to contact the family but 60 days to do an investigation. I wasgiven a number I can call to follow up but the woman I spoke to suggested waiting a week or two. I hope they get the mom and her DD the services they need.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LROM*
> 
> OP you did what you had to do, and I'm another one here who is so so grateful on behalf of that child AND that mom that you did call CPS.
> 
> Any news? What happened when you called and did they screen it in? Have you heard anything from the mom since then?
> 
> Whatever happens, you've been thoughtful and careful and tried so hard to weigh all the considerations at each step... I hope it's ultimately a good outcome for all involved, but whatever happened you did your best and no one can ask more than that.
> 
> Also want to add, your initial response to her alarming text was excellent. To offer to take her child, no questions asked, just to give her breathing room (and hopefully prevent her from doing something awful or more awful) was a generous, caring, wonderful thing to do for both child and mom. It's really too bad she was so deep in her stuff that she couldn't take you up on that and give a little relief to herself and her child.
> 
> I really hope somehow CPS is responsive and able to truly help that family.


----------



## laohaire

Yes, I'm very surprised and very disappointed the police didn't do a wellness check.

I've heard that usually police are happy to do this - just drive by and knock on the door, that sort of thing.

I even had a friend do that when she was at work and her husband was not answering the phone at home. Since her husband ALWAYS answered the phone (and she tried for an hour or whatever) she was actually pretty worried. Called the police in the home town and they said no problem - sent an officer over to knock on the door. Husband was fine, the phone apparently was accidentally knocked off the hook. Point is, that was certainly something the police should have been willing to do in that circumstance.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Nothing from the mom but I feel I will hear from her again. When I spoke to ACS they told me I should have called 911 after getting the text message about wanting to leave her somewhere. She was surprised the police didn't think it was worth going to her place to at least check on her DD. It usually takes 24 hrs. to contact the family but 60 days to do an investigation. I wasgiven a number I can call to follow up but the woman I spoke to suggested waiting a week or two. I hope they get the mom and her DD the services they need.


In NYC I would bet ACS has already been to her home - it took them less than 12hours to come to my home after getting called (on something MUCH less serious, and something that should not have been screened in). ACS may not have been able to get her if she wasn't home, or whatever, but I would bet they already tried. I'm surprised they gave you a number to follow up though, seems to me that since you are not related you wouldn't be privy to that information (although we don't know yet what they would tell you, I'm curious about that since it seems to me it would be pretty illegal to give private information out to non-family members).

In NYC, I'm not at all surprised the police didn't do a wellness check. It would be nice if they had time for that sort of thing, but I'm not surprised they didn't.


----------



## purslaine

Sometimes Childrens Aid Society does not respond the way we want, or parents do not respond in positive ways to CPS

You may want to spend some time reflecting on what relationship you want with this family if the family dynamics do not change.

I called CPS once on a women who I was (and am convinced) desperately needed help. CPS did very little as far as I can tell. Nothing about the relationship with this women changed. She was still always in drama, always in crisis mode, and I was always rescuing her. It was very draining.

CPS does not always magically fix things - figure out how you want to handle her and the situation if you hear from her again.


----------



## MarineWife

First, let me premise by saying that I think the it was absolutely wrong for this woman to lie and leave the child for hours without adequate contact or info about what was going on. However, in the end she kind of did the right thing. She didn't leave the child in a box in a dumpster. She didn't leave the child on a street corner. She didn't leave the child with some virtual strange who would do who knows what to the child. She left her child with a caring, trustworthy person. When that wasn't enough, she contacted the one person she knew would do something because she desperately needed help. Sounds to me like a woman who truly cares for her DD but can't handle taking care of her on her own and didn't know what to do about it. I hope she gets some relief.

It can be very difficult to get services that truly help. When I was a young, single parent, the one thing I really needed was regular, free childcare so I could get those breaks. Since I didn't live close to my mother, I didn't have that. I was involved with social services through the WIC, food stamp, medicaid and child support programs and never once was I told there was any kind of free respite care for me or my child. I was already paying for daily childcare while I worked and went to school. I could not afford to pay a babysitter to watch my child some nights or weekends for a few hours on top of that. In addition to that, I didn't know anyone I trusted enough to leave my child with. I tried to get my son into the Head Start program. It was free preschool for underprivileged children. I assumed we were underprivileged since we were poor and eligible to receive all the social services we received. I was told my child was basically too smart for the Head Start program.

Even now with my dh in the military I am essentially a single parent for months to a year+ at a time. Because I don't vaccinate I cannot take advantage of the free respite care provided to parents and children of deployed spouses/parents. I don't live close enough to my mom to have her watch my kids. I cannot afford to pay a babysitter on a regular basis to watch my children. Plus, going out isn't something that recharges me. I need to be able to relax at home without interruption or being constantly aware that my children are here and may need me. I don't even get that enough when my dh is home. I don't feel comfortable trading child care with another parent for various reasons. So, I'm kind of stuck. Luckily, I have not gotten to the point where I felt like I was on the verge of doing something horrible but I can see how that could happen if you feel like you have no support.

I guess my point is to give this mama a break. She may not have gone about it in the best way. She did some wrong things. But she did ask for help rather than something truly horrible. Let's just hope she and her DD get it.


----------



## LROM

I'm curious (and I ask this sincerely, I'm not asking from a negative place) what you think "giving this mom a break" should look like? I totally agree with you that often CPS does not and can not magically fix things in a family (it takes families years to get to where they are by the time someone calls CPS... no agency or anyone can magically make it all better in a short time or without cooperation from the family). But in your eyes is giving the mom a break mean not calling CPS? Or what do you mean when you suggest giving her a break?


----------



## gbailey

On ACS's website they give a number for you to follow up. I'm not sure how much info they'll give though if I call. I'm assuming it would be more like "the case is open" or " the case is closed" but not exact specifics.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> Nothing from the mom but I feel I will hear from her again. When I spoke to ACS they told me I should have called 911 after getting the text message about wanting to leave her somewhere. She was surprised the police didn't think it was worth going to her place to at least check on her DD. It usually takes 24 hrs. to contact the family but 60 days to do an investigation. I wasgiven a number I can call to follow up but the woman I spoke to suggested waiting a week or two. I hope they get the mom and her DD the services they need.
> 
> 
> 
> In NYC I would bet ACS has already been to her home - it took them less than 12hours to come to my home after getting called (on something MUCH less serious, and something that should not have been screened in). ACS may not have been able to get her if she wasn't home, or whatever, but I would bet they already tried. I'm surprised they gave you a number to follow up though, seems to me that since you are not related you wouldn't be privy to that information (although we don't know yet what they would tell you, I'm curious about that since it seems to me it would be pretty illegal to give private information out to non-family members).
> 
> In NYC, I'm not at all surprised the police didn't do a wellness check. It would be nice if they had time for that sort of thing, but I'm not surprised they didn't.
Click to expand...

Good point. You know, I have to leave her alone. I'm dealing with my own stuff and issues and I don't want to put myself in the position to always be at her rescue. I have a tendency of going into save the world mode and I can't keep doing it. I would love if she got some help for herself and her little girl but for now I've done what I can do and now the mama has to do what she needs to do for herself and her baby. Great post!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kathymuggle*
> 
> Sometimes Childrens Aid Society does not respond the way we want, or parents do not respond in positive ways to CPS
> 
> *You may want to spend some time reflecting on what relationship you want with this family if the family dynamics do not change.*
> 
> 
> 
> *I called CPS once on a women who I was (and am convinced) desperately needed help. CPS did very little as far as I can tell. Nothing about the relationship with this women changed. She was still always in drama, always in crisis mode, and I was always rescuing her. It was very draining.*
> 
> 
> 
> *CPS does not always magically fix things - figure out how you want to handle her and the situation if you hear from her again.*


----------



## MarineWife

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LROM*
> 
> I'm curious (and I ask this sincerely, I'm not asking from a negative place) what you think "giving this mom a break" should look like? I totally agree with you that often CPS does not and can not magically fix things in a family (it takes families years to get to where they are by the time someone calls CPS... no agency or anyone can magically make it all better in a short time or without cooperation from the family). But in your eyes is giving the mom a break mean not calling CPS? Or what do you mean when you suggest giving her a break?


No, I in no way mean that CPS should not have been called. Whenever a child is in danger, it should be reported. I mean that maybe we should stop judging her so much. So many people seemed so astonished by what she did but many parents do much worse things to their children and don't care. She did not abandon her child. It seems to me that she screamed for help the only way she knew how. We don't know how she may have sought help before and gotten nothing. A lot of times you don't get help unless you say you are going to hurt yourself or someone else. She may not have been to a point where she felt like that until just recently after who knows what else she may have tried while in less crisis. KWIM?


----------



## nola79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> I called the police last night after I got an alarming text from the mother telling me she was "sick of the da*n child playing in her sh*t" and she wishes she could just drop her off somewhere and leave her there." I called her right away and she didn't answer. I texted her back telling her to bring DD over here with a change of clothes. No response. So I called the precint I know is closest to her place. The response? To call ACS in the morning. Sounded like a mom who just needed a break. *rolling eyes* I call her again and leave her a message telling her she can bring her daughter over here to spend the night. No reponse. I text her and let her know I have no choice but to call ACS if she doesn't respond. Her response, "go ahead and call." I called this morning.


I'm glad you called. I really hope ACS can intervene and get them both some help.


----------



## One_Girl

It sounds like she is burnt out and needs some help, hopefully CPS gives her help rather than more stress. I have to say though that I would be ticked off if one of my friends responded to me reaching out with my frustration by telling me what to do. I have never liked to be told what to do and I would find it very insulting if a friend just decided that she had the solution to my frustration and decided to address me as someone who wasn't capable of making a rational decision if things were addressed to me as a choice. I think the police probably didn't take it very seriously because many parents feel frustrated with their children sometimes, even parents on this board have occasionally felt like they aren't cut out for being a parent and they seek support here (I can't count the number of times I have cried at night or in the car after having a tough day of testing with my dd and feeling like a failure), voicing that feeling and that frustration to a friend doesn't mean you are dangerous and I think that the officer who took the call knew that (maybe even had those same feelings themselves when things were really hard). Your friend does sound like she needs help, it sounds like she is dealing with a lot from her dd, and hopefully you know her well enough to know if she truly needs help or if she is a basically good mom going through a rough patch and needing more support from someone than friends can give her. Hopefully you made the right decision and things work out. If you think that she is mostly immature II think you should prepare your house in case she retaliates with a call of her own about you, her responses to you seem to indicate that she is either immature and views CPS as a threat or something you call when you are mad at a friend (not a serious thing) or that she thinks you freak out easily and CPS has nothing on her aside from having a bad day and running late while her daughter was in a safe place with a trusted friend. I have heard of cases where people get mad at each other and go back and forth with calls about each other and it would be awful if they decided to look into you just because you have a house that looks like it may have kids living in it.


----------



## beenmum

Personally, Thank God, that I have a good enough support system that I have never needed to lie or to leave my kids with anyone who is not my family (or best friend).

But alot of people arent so lucky. I hope this mum gets help rather then get her chid taken away.


----------



## gbailey

I hear you. Believe me, calling ACS was not taken very lightly.It's something I have never done before and didn't want to do but in her case I felt it was necessary. Hopefully she'll get the help her daughter needs and the help she needs. I'm aware that a friend venting about parenting doesn't mean that a person is dangerous. I vent to my friends as well but I don't send them texts about being tired of them and wanting to drop them off somewhere and I don't leave my daughter with people under the guise of having a family emergency, never call to check on her and then ignore repeated telephone calls and texts. My call wasn't just about the initial incident I posted about. I'm comfortable with my decision

I'm not concerned about her calling ACS out of retaliation but if that were something she chose to do, we don't need to prepare for anything.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *One_Girl*
> 
> It sounds like she is burnt out and needs some help, hopefully CPS gives her help rather than more stress. I have to say though that I would be ticked off if one of my friends responded to me reaching out with my frustration by telling me what to do. I have never liked to be told what to do and I would find it very insulting if a friend just decided that she had the solution to my frustration and decided to address me as someone who wasn't capable of making a rational decision if things were addressed to me as a choice. I think the police probably didn't take it very seriously because many parents feel frustrated with their children sometimes, even parents on this board have occasionally felt like they aren't cut out for being a parent and they seek support here (I can't count the number of times I have cried at night or in the car after having a tough day of testing with my dd and feeling like a failure), voicing that feeling and that frustration to a friend doesn't mean you are dangerous and I think that the officer who took the call knew that (maybe even had those same feelings themselves when things were really hard). Your friend does sound like she needs help, it sounds like she is dealing with a lot from her dd, and hopefully you know her well enough to know if she truly needs help or if she is a basically good mom going through a rough patch and needing more support from someone than friends can give her. Hopefully you made the right decision and things work out. If you think that she is mostly immature II think you should prepare your house in case she retaliates with a call of her own about you, her responses to you seem to indicate that she is either immature and views CPS as a threat or something you call when you are mad at a friend (not a serious thing) or that she thinks you freak out easily and CPS has nothing on her aside from having a bad day and running late while her daughter was in a safe place with a trusted friend. I have heard of cases where people get mad at each other and go back and forth with calls about each other and it would be awful if they decided to look into you just because you have a house that looks like it may have kids living in it.


----------



## gbailey

The mom must have enrolled her DD in a Pre K program because the school called me to let me know the mom hasn't picked up the daughter and she listed me as the emergency contact!!!! They'd been trying to get in contact with the mom for a half hour and the calls go to voicemail. I haven't spoken to the mom since we texted the day before I called ACS. Not sure why she would list me as an emergency contact. The school asked if I was able to pick the kiddo up and I told her no I can't get involved and told her I shouldn't be listed as the emergency contact as the mom and I don't have contact with each other. She sighed and seemed exasperated but I told her I was sorry, I couldn't be of more help.


----------



## purslaine




----------



## nola79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> The mom must have enrolled her DD in a Pre K program because the school called me to let me know the mom hasn't picked up the daughter and she listed me as the emergency contact!!!! They'd been trying to get in contact with the mom for a half hour and the calls go to voicemail. I haven't spoken to the mom since we texted the day before I called ACS. Not sure why she would list me as an emergency contact. The school asked if I was able to pick the kiddo up and I told her no I can't get involved and told her I shouldn't be listed as the emergency contact as the mom and I don't have contact with each other. She sighed and seemed exasperated but I told her I was sorry, I couldn't be of more help.










Unbelieveable. Poor kid.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama

This has got to be the weirdest situation I have ever heard of! I really don't get it. (OP, you are not doing anything wrong, you are handling this beautifully, it just strikes me as being totally, completely, crazy)


----------



## ~Charlie's~Angel~

I feel so sorry for that poor baby girl.


----------



## gbailey

For a split second, I was going to ask for the address of the school and go pick her up but I can't be involved in this anymore than I've already been. Apparently, calling ACS must not have helped much if the mom is up to the same old thing. Poor baby.


----------



## marinak1977

that poor little girl. I feel so bad for her.







sorry you got mixed up in this situation and I hope that CPS steps in and helps.


----------



## camracrazy

It sounds like this mom needs a lot more help than any one friend could give her on a casual basis.

It breaks my heart to think of that little girl sitting there waiting for her mommy.


----------



## elus0814

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> It can be very difficult to get services that truly help. When I was a young, single parent, the one thing I really needed was regular, free childcare so I could get those breaks. Since I didn't live close to my mother, I didn't have that. I was involved with social services through the WIC, food stamp, medicaid and child support programs and never once was I told there was any kind of free respite care for me or my child. I was already paying for daily childcare while I worked and went to school. I could not afford to pay a babysitter to watch my child some nights or weekends for a few hours on top of that. In addition to that, I didn't know anyone I trusted enough to leave my child with. I tried to get my son into the Head Start program. It was free preschool for underprivileged children. I assumed we were underprivileged since we were poor and eligible to receive all the social services we received. I was told my child was basically too smart for the Head Start program.
> 
> Even now with my dh in the military I am essentially a single parent for months to a year+ at a time. Because I don't vaccinate I cannot take advantage of the free respite care provided to parents and children of deployed spouses/parents. I don't live close enough to my mom to have her watch my kids. I cannot afford to pay a babysitter on a regular basis to watch my children. Plus, going out isn't something that recharges me. I need to be able to relax at home without interruption or being constantly aware that my children are here and may need me. I don't even get that enough when my dh is home. I don't feel comfortable trading child care with another parent for various reasons. So, I'm kind of stuck. Luckily, I have not gotten to the point where I felt like I was on the verge of doing something horrible but I can see how that could happen if you feel like you have no support.


I understand how difficult it can be to never get a break but even if you are on food stamps or something like that it is not the responsibility of taxpayers to pay for you to get a break. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but social safety net programs are in place to provide basic needs - babysitters so parents can have time alone is not a basic need the way food or shelter is.

My husband is military too. When he's deployed I have no help at all with our four kids. When he spent a year overseas I spent 4 months without a break then five days of help from family coming in from out of state, then nearly eight months without a break. I would often stay up half the night to have time alone. Like you I'm not able to use respite care because the kids are not vaccinated. I've tried to get a waiver but haven't been able to find one. I've tried to find a babysitter but the only ones who are willing to babysit are either 12 years old (no way could they safely watch four kids) or ask the same as the hourly rate base daycare providers charge. I'd like a break but $5 per hour per child plus an extra $2 per hour for each child in diapers. That's $24 per hour plus the cost of buying a breast pump, bottles, disposable diapers (they will not take kids in cloth diapers), and so on. I tried to trade care with other parents but no one was willing to watch four kids at once.

I know almost all parents want to take breaks at some point but it doesn't always happen.


----------



## Cascadian

Don't get involved. Stay away from the drama. Mom needs to set up a healthy network with good boundaries as she is obviously overwhelmed. Sometimes people need a wakeup call - don't bail her out of not picking up her DD from school, as it will just enable her to do it again. I'm all for helping our fellow mama out, but when that crosses the line to manipulation or being taken advantage of, sometimes people are better left to their own devices, for better or worse. The DD is at school, not at the local bar. The school is well versed in dealing with these types of situations. A one time event? No problem. Chronic? Intervention time.


----------



## [email protected]

You did the right thing. By picking up the child, you would be covering the woman's a**. Now she has created a clear situation of abandonment, and that needs to be documented in order for CPS to take notice.


----------



## wytchywoman

Hopefully the school followed through with a call to CPS and reported her, that is the standard for most daycares. I understand that this mother is overwhelmed BUT a) she is overwhelmed because she won't seek help for child who is quite possibly a special needs child AND b) many mothers get overwhelmed and need a break and don't get one. You can NOT abandon your child because you need a break. You just CAN'T. There are consequences that go hand in hand with that if that's what you decide to do. Not ideal for anyone, especially for the child, but if the mother is brazen enough to not pick up her kid when she knows she supposed to be there, then who's to say that she isn't brazen enough to leave the child at home alone. Mom needs help of the professional kind, and CPS will give her access to that.


----------



## Super~Single~Mama

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> For a split second, I was going to ask for the address of the school and go pick her up but I can't be involved in this anymore than I've already been. Apparently, calling ACS must not have helped much if the mom is up to the same old thing. Poor baby.


This will get ACS's attention. Giving a *false* emergency contact, not answering voice calls or voice mails, and being super late to pick up the child? They CANNOT ignore that, especially since its the second report.

You did the right thing. If it makes you feel better (it always helps me when I'm worried or sad) hold your own children a little closer - for some reason it relaxes me.


----------



## cschick

..


----------



## WindyCityMom

For you, OP


----------



## Storm Bride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cschick*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> For a split second, I was going to ask for the address of the school and go pick her up but I can't be involved in this anymore than I've already been. Apparently, calling ACS must not have helped much if the mom is up to the same old thing. Poor baby.
> 
> 
> 
> There's a very good chance the girl is in child protective services custody now. Preschools/daycare don't mess around with this type of stuff, after a certain period of time (30-60 minutes) they're going to either turn the child over to the police or child protective services as abandoned and let the mom make her explanations to them. Unless the mom has a very good, very provable excuse for being late and non-contactable, she's probably not getting out of this easily.
Click to expand...

She may not get out of it easily, anyway. I don't think they're going to think much of the mom putting down an emergency contact who wasn't okay with being the contact, yk? That's kind of...over the line, imo.


----------



## LROM

OP if you hear anything else, please let us know. My heart is really breaking for this little girl... and her mama too. But I do think you did the right thing again. Just so sad.


----------



## Sarah W

That poor child! I'm sorry you were caught in the middle of this. I think you did the right thing, and I hope this will have a happy ending for her child.


----------



## sarahr

Just bumping up to see if there was any news. I've been thinking about this poor girl.


----------



## jeminijad

I just read the thread.

OP, have you heard from the mom again?


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## gbailey

I haven't heard anything at all. DH and I were talking about her last night wondering if she's okay and if she picked her up after I got the call from the school.At this point, I hope no news is good news.


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## gbailey

So, I got an email from the mom this morning. The daughter is no longer in her care. She didn't go into great detail about it but I am assuming ACS removed her. She said some things about me,my husband, daughter and her daughter that I won't repeat that were beyond unkind. Any anger towards me and DH I can understand but the things about her DD and my DD were kind of shocking not to mention hurtful but I know she's not functioning well. Long story short, her DD is not with her and she "kind of wanted to thank" me for making it so the kiddo was taken off of her hands. I'm sad about the entire thing but I hope her DD is okay and I hope the mama gets herself some much needed help.I know she has some problems but I believe more than ever she may have a severe mental issue. I didn't bother to respond to her email. I deleted it but not before DH insisted I print it out. He thinks she's unstable enough to come knocking on our door in the middle of the night. Honestly, I'm not in the least bit concerned about that. Just hope her DD is with a nice and loving family.


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## Katielady

Whoah. Just goes to show, you handled this really well, OP. I'm sorry for what you've been through. Hopefully that poor kid will get better care now, and hopefully the mom will get the mental health help she clearly seems to need too. Maybe if she gets well she can be a mom to her child again; this might end up being a good thing for everyone involved.


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## Super~Single~Mama

You did the right thing, I'm so sorry she said unkind things about you and your family. I hope she doesn't bother you any longer.


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## scottishmommy

I'm so sorry she said cruel things about your family. She's obviously not in a good place right now, so try not to let it get to you (easier said than done). You've been very brave and level headed through this whole thing. It's awful that you got tangled up in it!


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## waiting2bemommy

wait, so she was GLAD that the child isn't in her care? Or was that sarcasm? Either way, I'm really sorry she said unkind things about your children.

When my mother called CPS on me I said some very unkind things to her (I told she didn't deserve to call herself a mother, and to go find herself new grandchildren, because she will never lay eyes on my children again) and I don't regret a single one of them. But then, everything she told them was a lie, so a very different scenario. still, I can understand that blinding rage this mom might be feeling. No matter how "far gone" she was in terms of her mental health, I'm sure it was still a devastating situation for her. In this case it sounds like she isn't in a position to handle her dd's needs. I hope that a good and understanding worker was assigned to her so that they can help her get what services she needs and get her and her baby reunited quickly.


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## karanyavel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *laohaire*
> 
> Yes, I'm very surprised and very disappointed the police didn't do a wellness check.
> 
> I've heard that usually police are happy to do this - just drive by and knock on the door, that sort of thing.
> 
> I even had a friend do that when she was at work and her husband was not answering the phone at home. Since her husband ALWAYS answered the phone (and she tried for an hour or whatever) she was actually pretty worried. Called the police in the home town and they said no problem - sent an officer over to knock on the door. Husband was fine, the phone apparently was accidentally knocked off the hook. Point is, that was certainly something the police should have been willing to do in that circumstance.


At around here, persistence seems to the the key.

The police here did a wellness check on my now-husband because he'd moved cross-country out of her house and into mine (to get away from a borderline abusive situation with his parents). He was 18 at the time. Of course he was fine, but they came over, asked to speak to him alone, verified I hadn't kidnapped him or something, and asked him to please call his mother so she would stop calling the police station.

There was another situation that occurred with our neighbors when we lived in an apartment complex. The couple had been fighting and the mom went to work. When she got back, she found that her husband had locked the deadbolt, wasn't answering the door, and she could hear her baby crying inside. At first the police just said, "Oh, babies cry," but she persuaded them to knock down the door. "Dad" was passed out drunk and had the baby strapped into his car seat, screaming for God knows how long. (Yes, they split up, and Mom got custody. Thankfully.)

--K


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## journeymom

OP, I'm glad your dh urged you to keep a copy of the email. Best of luck.


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## gbailey

Thanks everyone for the nice words. I'm not sure if she was being sarcastic or if it's because she's mentally ill.I want to think no person in their right frame of mind would be glad. I hope she has a good caseworker too and that she recognizes she needs help so she can get her DD back. I know CPS isn't kind to all parents but I'm hopeful she'll get a caseworker who wants her to get help so she can better care for her DD.

I think she's a good person who will be okay if given the right resources. Part of me wanted to block her from email but I won't because I hope, whether it's 6 months or a year from now I'll hear from her and she'll tell me that she has her daughter back and things are going well for them. It's just too bad when people don't have the support they really need from their loved ones or when we want to give support to people but are powerless to help them.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *waiting2bemommy*
> 
> wait, so she was GLAD that the child isn't in her care? Or was that sarcasm? Either way, I'm really sorry she said unkind things about your children.
> 
> When my mother called CPS on me I said some very unkind things to her (I told she didn't deserve to call herself a mother, and to go find herself new grandchildren, because she will never lay eyes on my children again) and I don't regret a single one of them. But then, everything she told them was a lie, so a very different scenario. still, I can understand that blinding rage this mom might be feeling. No matter how "far gone" she was in terms of her mental health, I'm sure it was still a devastating situation for her. In this case it sounds like she isn't in a position to handle her dd's needs. I hope that a good and understanding worker was assigned to her so that they can help her get what services she needs and get her and her baby reunited quickly.


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## One_Girl

It sounds like she knew she needed a very long break and a lot of help dealing with a very very difficult child who wasn't responding to her mother at all. I know a few people who don't have their kids anymore and aren't mentally ill, two are very happy to not have their kids and aren't looking to get them back. Hopefully this mom decides she wants to use the resources available to get her child back, but sadly not all parents feel like being parents after they see how hard it is, especially when their first child is as difficult as this child was described in your previous posts. I wish mental illness was the reason for this, but sometimes very nice people who seem really good respond really badly to the stress of parenting. If mental illness was a correct diagnosis for not wanting to be with your child our social security/disability system would be flooded with deadbeat parents.

I think you should try to separate yourself from this situation. If she does have an actual mental illness, which isn't necessarily the case since she really didn't seem to during the years you knew her, it may be even more important to cut the ties because she will probably go through many up and down times with it and you will find yourself dragged deeply into a lot of garbage if you give her the chance to pull you in a little. It is wonderful that you care about her, but you know this woman is toxic and toxic people can be a huge drain on your life if you let them. You can easily separate now, but it won't be so easy later if you do let her back in once she seems better then turns out not to be all the way better. I am currently kicking myself for not cutting contact with a toxic friend when I had the chance because I feel bad about telling her straight out that we need to end the relationship but I also just hate seeing her because it is a huge drain on us. I wanted to be there for her and her son because she has problems, but they aren't bad enough for anything to be done about them unless she chooses to do something. I wanted to be a steady influence on her son but instead he makes my dd a nervous wreck. She doesn't do anything CPS worthy but her and her son are a huge drain on my dd and I even so. I really encourage you to jump at this chance to block her e-mail and cut her out of your life all together.


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## LROM

Just adding my "dittos" to previous posts saying that I hope and pray her daughter is in a good, kind, safe home and getting the help she needs to be healthy and thriving... and I hope mom is in a place to take advantage of whatever supports are offered to her or to find what she needs to feel stable and healthy herself. If she has mental issues, hopefully this situation will create some space for her to recognize whatever she needs to recognize and get help.

It was a crappy, complicated situation to be in - for ALL involved - but thank goodness for people like you who do the brave, right thing even when people are telling you not to and you stand up for a child who potentially (or definitely) needs some outside help. And your DH was right to insist you print out the email - keep it. You're probably right, the last thing she probably would do is ring your bell... but it's something you should have documented anyway.

I truly believe that 99.999% of parents WANT to be the best parents they can be... but many of us simply don't have all the tools or supports or mindframe to be so. No parent is perfect, but for those who cannot adequately provide for our kids' most basic needs (love, food, safety, shelter, nurturing) in those cases, someone needs to help us because our children CANNOT protect themselves. They can't raise themselves, they usually can't provide for themselves, and much more importantly... they shouldn't have to. They are kids. I hope this litter girl will get to be in her mom's home again with both of them stable and doing well. If that can't happen, I hope they each look back on this turning point in their lives and feel it was for the best.

You handled this whole thing with incredible strength and grace and concern.


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## APToddlerMama

OP--What a tough situation, as everyone has said, but you did handle it perfectly. I hope that things work out for this family. Having worked in child welfare, I would suggest you think about forwarding/copying and mailing that letter into CPS and asking that it get sent to her caseworker. There are many many good social workers who work hard to reunite 'their' kids with their parents, and it really helps to have the full picture. If you feel like the letter is a good indictator of mental health issues, it would probably be really helpful to that worker. Frequently, attending therapy, seeing a psychologist/psychiatrist etc are part of the case plan that could really get this mama the help she needs to address her mental health needs and hopefully be able to parent her daughter once again. Best of luck to you in whatever you decide to do. I totally would understand if you are really ready to step out of this situation after everything you've already done. You have really made a difference for this little girl.


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## gbailey

The mom contacted me again last night. This time with about 40 (yes, 40 text messages). The first few were about not responding to her email, about ten asking me what I was doing and if I wanted to get together, the others were just nonsensical. After about the 39th message, I called her but she didn't answer so I left her a message. I was firm but not nasty and told her to stop texting me, I don't have anything to offer her and the ACS worker is better equipped to help her but in the meantime she needs to stop contacting me and that was that. She texted me after that and said OK. These texts were also happening very late at night but I haven't heard from her since.

Thanks for the PPs great comments and advice. I went ahead and took one-girls advice this morning and blocked her from being able to send me emails. I have to call my cell phone carrier and ask how I can block her from sending me texts. I've already put ignore as her name so if she calls I know not to answer it. DH doesn't think there's anything wrong with her at all except she takes advantage of people and manipulates them. Whatever it is, I'm done and just hope her DD is okay.


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## limabean

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gbailey*
> 
> The mom contacted me again last night. This time with about 40 (yes, 40 text messages). The first few were about not responding to her email, about ten asking me what I was doing and if I wanted to get together, the others were just nonsensical. After about the 39th message, I called her but she didn't answer so I left her a message. I was firm but not nasty and told her to stop texting me, I don't have anything to offer her and the ACS worker is better equipped to help her but in the meantime she needs to stop contacting me and that was that. She texted me after that and said OK. These texts were also happening very late at night but I haven't heard from her since.
> 
> Thanks for the PPs great comments and advice. I went ahead and took one-girls advice this morning and blocked her from being able to send me emails. I have to call my cell phone carrier and ask how I can block her from sending me texts. I've already put ignore as her name so if she calls I know not to answer it. DH doesn't think there's anything wrong with her at all except she takes advantage of people and manipulates them. Whatever it is, I'm done and just hope her DD is okay.


Oh my goodness. She sounds really ill. What do you mean by "nonsensical" in reference to her texts? You're continuing to handle it very well -- it must be so upsetting.


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## purslaine

I think you have handled the whole situation really well.

A friend sent me a poem that really spoke to me (and I have been through something similar to you lately). Hope it helps:

People come into your life for a reason, a season, or
a lifetime. When you figure out which one it is, you
will know what to do for each person.

When someone is in your life for a REASON . . . It is
usually to meet a need you have expressed. They have
come to assist you through a difficulty, to provide you
with guidance and support, to aid you physically,
emotionally, or spiritually. They may seem like a
godsend, and they are! They are there for the reason
you need them to be.

Then, without any wrong doing on your part, or at an
inconvenient time, this person will say or do something
to bring the relationship to an end.

Sometimes they die.
Sometimes they walk away.
Sometimes they act up and force you to take a stand.

What we must realise is that our need has been met, our
desire fulfilled, their work is done. The prayer you
sent up has been answered. And now it is time to move on.

There is more to the poem, here it is in full if you like:

http://www.yuni.com/library/docs/631.html

I think the universe recognized you (or the mother did, on some subconscious level) as someone who could deal with the issues she had, and put you in her path. She needed a friend for a reason, and you were it.

Of course, it is also possible the whole thing is random.

Either way, she had a need for intervention and you filled it. It is a good thing.

Take care of yourself,

Kathy


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## wytchywoman

FWIW I think you are doing the right thing as well. Honestly, she sounds like she is either severely mentally ill and not seeking treatment or she is using drugs (heavily and frequently). Neither is a good scenario to have to deal with. ((((HUGS)))) to you.


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