# my neighbors tie their teenager to the chair?!



## soybeansmama (Jan 26, 2006)

I have been a witness to something quite disturbing a couple times now and I am not sure what else I can do about it. The family across the street has a 17 year old daughter that is going through a hard time right now. She has been unhappy at home and sneaking out with friends...stuff that I did when I was her age. The other night I woke up to a sound that I thought was a cat barfing in the yard and I looked out the window and saw her dad had her in a choke hold dragging her onto the lawn. She had stolen the car in the middle of the night and to keep her from running off on foot he had her pinned on her stomach on the grass with her hands behind her.







:

At this point I was worried for her and I ran outside in my nightgown and told him that she could sleep at my house for the night so that they could cool off and talk about it in the morning. BTW, this is the 3rd episode like this that I have been a witness to. I was even more disturbed when I talked to her mom the next day and she said that sometimes they have to tie her to the chair so she won't run off in the night.














I was speechless and just told them again that if she needed to come over to my house to get away when those situations come up then that would be better than hurting her... I told them that I couldn't watch her be treated that way and not do something about it. I don't know what else I should have done. I want to keep the peace with my neighbors , but that poor girl is hurting and needs something besides this kind of treatment. Any ideas?


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Holy %&*@!!!!! Screw peace with the neighbors, I'd call the cops! That poor girl!


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## AutumnMama (Jan 2, 2004)

WTF!?







: I would've called the cops. Call the cops. That poor girl!


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## graye_pearl (Oct 14, 2006)

call the police. immediately. she is running away to get out of her obviously EXTREMELY abusive household.

is there any way to talk to the girl privately to find out if there are other forms of abuse happening? she needs to get out of that house as soon as possible...


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

I would also call the police.


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## mistymama (Oct 12, 2004)

I couldn't read and not respond, even though it's already been said. Call the cops, please.


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## MaryLang (Jun 18, 2004)

Call the COPS!!!!!!!!


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Call the police, call child protective services. Do it today.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Just piping in to agree with what everyone else said. Treating a teenager that way is NOT okay.


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## soybeansmama (Jan 26, 2006)

This is the part that I didn't mention...They think that she is bipolar and needs meds and that they are keeping her from harming herself if they physically contain her. When I have spoken to her mom privately, she has shared that she doesn't know what else to do because she won't go to counseling, etc. It's confusing to me because her mom actually works with troubled teens at a continuation high school.







: It's the dad that acts violent. I have seen the mom stand in the middle of the 2 of them. I am due in 4 weeks and I am not comfortable creating problems for myself, that is why I WILL call the police next time. I let them know that after this last episode...


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## CaraNicole (Feb 28, 2007)

_for that poor childs sake please call the police...what your neighbors are doing is illegal not to mention cruel, an abuse of parental authority, a breech of trust, and i'm sure damaging to her mental health...i'm not sure what the exact charge would be but i do know this is very illegal to restrain someone against their will..._


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## SamuraiMom (Nov 7, 2006)

Next time, call the police. Those parents could be on their last nerve and feel they have no other option but to physically restrain her, and in their anger, seriously hurting her. Time to interviene.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

i would not call CPS. that girl will be traumatized even more in foster care. i would call the cops and talk to them though. have them come out to speak to the family maybe? does your neighbor go to church? maybe his pastor could come out there? if it were me personally, i know it would be extremely uncomfortable but maybe you need to march over there and talk to them and their daughter. i'm sure having an out of control teen really sux, and they probably know they are handling it completely wrong....maybe they just don't know what to do...maybe they are bad parents? dunno? sounds like they all need family therapy for sure. perhaps you could go over with some referrals of family therapist or something. gosh i don't know. my field is in social work, and i can tell you that foster care is not the better option....but you need to do something. you are guilty by association if you don't speak up, ya know???

i didn't see your post saying you were pregnant....so never mind going over there. that stress will not be good for you and the baby at all.


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## soybeansmama (Jan 26, 2006)

Thanks for confirming my gut instinct. It has been hard for me to decide what the right thing to do is because the mom and I are somewhat friends and vist with eachother. That is why I told them that I don't agree with what they are doing and that I will call the police. Otherwise I wouldn't have even tried to talk it out. I plan to talk to the daughter one on one when I see her next. Seeing her go through this has triggered memories of the dealing with my depression and anxiety as a teen and feeling like I just want to get away. Up until now I have felt like callig the police would ruin my chances to help her. Now I just feel like it's not worth risking her safety...


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## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

I personally would call someone, cps, cops, whoever that deals with child abuse. To me THAT is child abuse, and I, in no way, will witness something like that and NOT do something.
One person can make a difference in this child's life, you can safe this child for whats next.


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## soybeansmama (Jan 26, 2006)

I have decided that I am going to write her a letter and invite her to come and talk if she needs to. I feel like reaching out to her would be a better way to deal with things. I need to do it before another incident happens.


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## Mamamazing (Aug 16, 2006)

Talk schtalk, call the cops.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

COPS and Cps. Today. That is horrible child abuse


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

I still say call the cops, the new info. doesn't change a THING, except maybe make it WORSE! These people are sick in the head.


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## PiePie (Oct 2, 2006)

this is upsetting to read. call cps!


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Please call the police, this girl needs protction.


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soybeansmama* 
This is the part that I didn't mention...They think that she is bipolar and needs meds and that they are keeping her from harming herself if they physically contain her. When I have spoken to her mom privately, she has shared that she doesn't know what else to do because she won't go to counseling, etc. It's confusing to me because her mom actually works with troubled teens at a continuation high school.







: It's the dad that acts violent. I have seen the mom stand in the middle of the 2 of them. I am due in 4 weeks and I am not comfortable creating problems for myself, that is why I WILL call the police next time. I let them know that after this last episode...

The risk (to the girl) involved in waiting for there to be a _next time_ is profound. Their handling of an out-of-control-possibly-chemically-imbalanced teenagaer crossed the line a long time ago. You don't have any garaentee that _next time_ won't have escalated. This family needs intervention, immediately.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kmisje* 
I personally would call someone, cps, cops, whoever that deals with child abuse. To me THAT is child abuse, and I, in no way, will witness something like that and NOT do something.
One person can make a difference in this child's life, you can safe this child for whats next.

Our neighbors' girls (16 & 17) are nuts. They have trashy boys around all the time, and sneak out, smoke under my daughter's window and are just totally unruly. I remember wanting freedoms and privaledges my folks didn't deem me worthy of at 16-17. I snuck out, experimented, etc... and was generally dissatisfied with the manner in which I was parented. Not uncommon. My dad pop-riveted the screen onto the sill of my window, and put in a bolt to keep the window from opening more that just enough for me to _squeeeeeze_ out with some difficulty in the event of an emergency. He threatened to put a dead-bolt on my door from the outside...

There are other ways for _her_ to deal with her fear or anger than to go running off into the night to be abducted, raped, murdered, drugged, whatever. And there are other ways for _them_ to handle their child.

It helps to have someone to talk to. If you're comfortable doing so, approach the girl asap, and avail yourself to her... "I know things are crazy and you're very unhappy. Please know you have an ally and a confidante. You can come over or call whenever you need to to talk, or if you need shelter." Let her mom know you are doing this. It might help _mom_ to know _she_ has this back-up, in a way. _Ask_ the daughter if she _wants_ CPS involved. Maybe she would value the intervention, she might thrive in a foster home... my foster brother-in-law did. My 2 brothers-in-law spent time as the foster kids of the family that adopted them (dh's) and flourished. Not _ALL_ foster-situations are bad. If you're up to it to go this far, or far enough to provide her shelter... maybe _YOU_ guys ought to foster her for a week or so... she'd see mom and dad, be right across the street from 'em, and shoot, maybe she would be helpful around the house as you prep for baby. Mom and dad could sign over temporary guardianship of her so that all is legal, or whatev. My close friend had to do this with her child while she got herself clean and on medication so that she could be the super parent she is _now._


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

I don't necessarily know that calling the cops is the best thing to do. My sister is bi-polar and caused all kinds of conflict in my family. There were incidents when she was in a severely depressed state that she would try to run away saying she was going to kill herself. My parents truly feared she'd do harm to herself. More than once my dad restrained her in our front yard as she tried to run away. My dad is an extremely gentle person. He rarely raised his voice, and he never laid a hand on me or my siblings. But in that situation he didn't know how else to keep her from running away. She wasn't running from an abusive situation. She was mentally ill. She also would refuse counseling and meds which she desperately needed. Granted, my parents needed professional help. My dad is a pastor, but he didn't have the knowledge or experience with how to deal with a situation like this. Now he frequently helps people with mental health issues, though!

I think you should call a mental health hotline or hospital in your area and ask them what for advice. Intervening could either really help this family or it could hurt them. Maybe call a local pastor if you go to church or know one.


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

I do not care if she has mental illness or not- that is NOT a free pass for her parents to put her in a CHOKE HOLD, or TIE HER TO A CHAIR!!!

If they are unable to handle her, then she needs to be in the care of someone who CAN!


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breathless Wonder* 
I do not care if she has mental illness or not- that is NOT a free pass for her parents to put her in a CHOKE HOLD, or TIE HER TO A CHAIR!!!

If they are unable to handle her, then she needs to be in the care of someone who CAN!









:


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## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

I personally was a victim of child abuse/domestic abuse, and NO ONE did a dang thing when they witnessed my father hit me, and force food (LITTERLY) in my mouth, everyone was scared. NO ONE did a darn thing when they saw how my ex used to CHOKE me and sufficate me with a pillow. You know how that made me feel? Like everyone just didn't care, and just went on with their lives. It made me feel ALONE, and scared.

I don't ever hesitate doing what I feel is right when I witness any kind of abuse, and I have no problem calling cops when I see something like that.


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

I did NOT suggest mental illness was a free pass to put a child in a choke hold or to tie a child to a chair. And I take offense that you suggest I did.

Consider for a moment the abuse the teen may be inflicting on her family. Unless you've lived with a mentally ill person it's probably hard to imagine. When she was in a rage my sister would yell at us, break things, throw things at us, hit, punch, kick, and claw at my parents, me, and my brother, pull hair, etc. Often this was caused by my parents denying her money or permission to do something. Physically restraining her was the only way to prevent her from hurting one of us or someone else.

Did my parents need help? Absolutely. Did they need the police and possibly CPS involved? No. Did my sister need to be in foster care? Absolutely not. That would have only made it worse. I'd go so far as to say that even a mental hospital could have caused more harm that good.

All I'm saying is that calling the cops is not the *first* step I'd recommend the OP take. Calling a mental health clinic, hospital, or hotline, or calling a faith leader (pastor, rabbi, etc.) of some kind is what I'd suggest. Things are not always as they appear on the outside.

ETA: The parents should definitely not be tying their daughter to a chair. They clearly need help. Dealing with mental illness is so tricky. I hope they find help whether the OP is able to be part of that or not. Sorry. I just can't be objective after growing up with my bi-polar sister. I don't condone the parents crossing the line. But I can understand why they might have. There isn't enough done for mentally ill people in this country. It's lonely to be mentally ill, I'm sure. It's also lonely to be the parents/sibling of one.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

before you call. In some areas this would just be seen as the parents dealing with the unruly teen and they will side with the parents..
that could make things worse for her...


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soybeansmama* 
The other night I woke up to a sound that I thought was a cat barfing in the yard and I looked out the window and saw her dad had her in a choke hold dragging her onto the lawn. She had stolen the car in the middle of the night and to keep her from running off on foot he had her pinned on her stomach on the grass with her hands behind her.
<snip>
...
Any ideas?

This is abuse.

Call the police.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

i agree it's not right to be abusive, and this is definitely abuse. but having said that, unless you've had a completely out of control teenager before, it's hard to say how extreme you would let your own behavior become to try and keep your daughter safe from herself and others. i can't imagine how upset i would be if my daughter stole the car in the middle of the night. THANK GOD she was not killed or hurt. the dad was completely out of line, no excuses. i am not advocating their behavior at all. i think it is awful, and i pray i never even have to think about my child and i being so distant from one another that our relationship would come to lies, yelling, and no communication. i'm just saying, it's easy for all of us to sit here and judge these parents and say how bad they are, but maybe they really love their daughter and are trying to protect her from her crappy friends and her abusive self. it doesn't excuse their behavior....but it does mean they need HELP.

in actuality, if the girl is 17 - she can move out. i did at her age, and it was a very tough lesson to learn. and i'll tell you that when i was in my early 20's doing drugs and hanging out with the worst "friends" i could find, the people that came and bailed my butt out were my parents. they rented a uhaul and came to the worst part of downtown atlanta and moved all of my stuff home to their place and let me live there for years & for free while i finally got my life together. they paid for me to attend college, and as bad i was as a teenager....they never gave up on me. and they definitely would have been considered "abusive" to me as a teenager in all of your eyes. just wanted to throw in another perspective. having said that though -- original poster....you owe it this girl to try and extend help to her benefit.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Ok, one more thing, after reading the rest of this thread:

If they are doing those god awful things to her outside for people to see, and telling you about certain actions, rest assured that there are probably worst things going on behind closed doors that you don't know about.

I have a best friend who has bipolar, and she has snuck out and did bad things, but this doesn't give anyone any excuse to treat someone this way.

About the not going to counseling thing, that's still not an excuse. They are the parents they can make an appointment, pick her up from school, and put her in the car and take her there. If nothing else, THEY can go to counseling alone without her (if she absolutely won't go) and learn for themselves how to deal with her without having to escalate to this point.

That "she won't go to counseling" is a flimsy excuse for an excuse.
Have a chat with the girl (baring in mind that her parents may limit her contact with you, or otherwise filter her mail) and find out if there is more going on, also keeping in mind that she may not tell you everything, especially if she was raised in this atmosphere.

You still need to call some type of authority.


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## aprildawn (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elizawill* 
in actuality, if the girl is 17 - she can move out. i did at her age, and it was a very tough lesson to learn. and i'll tell you that when i was in my early 20's doing drugs and hanging out with the worst "friends" i could find, the people that came and bailed my butt out were my parents. .*...they never gave up on me*. and they definitely would have been considered "abusive" to me as a teenager in all of your eyes.

This sounds so much like the situation my parents were in with my sister. She moved out, would come home with her laundry from time to time. She was starving. She also learned her lesson the hard way and appreciates all my parents did to help her even if in the heat of the moment they made a bad decision.

Her daughter, my niece, lives with them now. They have never given up on my sister. They bail her out all the time. To this day. And she's 31 years old!!


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

It seems to me that if she's so mentally ill that the only way they can keep her from destroying herself is to hurt her and tie her up, she probably needs to be in an institution. And that would more likely be the outcome of calling the police than foster care.


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## gargirl (Dec 30, 2006)

That poor kid. I personally would call the police. Whenever I hear or see domestic violence that is what I do.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soybeansmama* 
I have been a witness to something quite disturbing a couple times now and I am not sure what else I can do about it. The family across the street has a 17 year old daughter that is going through a hard time right now. She has been unhappy at home and sneaking out with friends...stuff that I did when I was her age. The other night I woke up to a sound that I thought was a cat barfing in the yard and I looked out the window and saw her dad had her in a choke hold dragging her onto the lawn. She had stolen the car in the middle of the night and to keep her from running off on foot he had her pinned on her stomach on the grass with her hands behind her.







:

At this point I was worried for her and I ran outside in my nightgown and told him that she could sleep at my house for the night so that they could cool off and talk about it in the morning. BTW, this is the 3rd episode like this that I have been a witness to. I was even more disturbed when I talked to her mom the next day and she said that sometimes they have to tie her to the chair so she won't run off in the night.














I was speechless and just told them again that if she needed to come over to my house to get away when those situations come up then that would be better than hurting her... I told them that I couldn't watch her be treated that way and not do something about it. I don't know what else I should have done. I want to keep the peace with my neighbors , but that poor girl is hurting and needs something besides this kind of treatment. Any ideas?

You're serious? You think you need to ask us if this is oK?

Wow, to go over 350 posts before typing such a question. You're patient.


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## soybeansmama (Jan 26, 2006)

Wow...I wasn't asking if this was OK. Clearly it is not and clearly I am disturbed... This family does need help and I am desperatly trying to figure out how to do that

Aprildawn, thanks for your sensitivities. I grew up with a bipolar father and understand the touchiness of something like this. I have physically stood in his way when he has threatened to leave the house in a rage and drive off a cliff. It _is_ a delicate situation.

I just wrote her a letter and gave it to her rather than talking to her one on one. I gave the letter to her mom and told her that she could read it first. I watched her hand it to her daughter. I am making bread for them and will bring it over to them later. That will be a good opportunity for them to discuss things with me...


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CerridwenLorelei* 
before you call. In some areas this would just be seen as the parents dealing with the unruly teen and they will side with the parents..
that could make things worse for her...


Unfortunately, this is my perception also. I would talk to the daughter and give her information to empower herself toward separating legally from her parents. There are battered women's shelters who will work to advocate for her. She can become an emancipated minor, legally. There are resources who will facilitate her directly per her request.

Pat


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soybeansmama* 
Wow...I wasn't asking if this was OK. Clearly it is not and clearly I am disturbed... This family does need help and I am desperatly trying to figure out how to do that

Aprildawn, thanks for your sensitivities. I grew up with a bipolar father and understand the touchiness of something like this. I have physically stood in his way when he has threatened to leave the house in a rage and drive off a cliff. It _is_ a delicate situation.

I just wrote her a letter and gave it to her rather than talking to her one on one. I gave the letter to her mom and told her that she could read it first. I watched her hand it to her daughter. I am making bread for them and will bring it over to them later. That will be a good opportunity for them to discuss things with me...

Person tied to chair. Call 911. If the authortieis dont do anything, at least *you* did the right thing. Asking us first is not the right thing. Pick up your phone. Period.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gargirl* 
That poor kid. I personally would call the police. Whenever I hear or see domestic violence that is what I do.

Yes. Domestic violence is most often a matter of life or death. Dancing around trying to decide how to appease the abusers means the victim suffers longer, or is killed. Why the abusers get extra time to negotiate thier position is beyond me.


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

If the teen is so terribly out of control that her dad feels the need to tie her down, then she needs to be hopsitalized until she is stable, end of story. I guess without knowing the entire story, it really sounds to me like they are taking really inappropriate measures to keep her from meeting some natural consequences. If she runs away, they need to call the police and report her as a run away, if she steals the car they need to report the vehicle as stolen, and find a better hiding place for the keys. But one way or another the choke holds and the restraints have to stop. Even mental institutions, who specialize in the care of mentally ill people, are not legally allowed to do what her parents are doing to her. I agree with PP's that next time may be too late. You can call the cops who will in turn call CPS themselves, or you can call CPS directly. If you are looking for the lesser of two evils, simply call CPS, which will mean that appropriate services are put into place for the daughter and (usually) criminal charges for the parent are bypassed. She is 17, at some point she will be 18, and then what? She needs some form of help, now.


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## DBassett (May 15, 2007)

I have to strongly disagree with EVERYONE who said not to call the cops and CPS.

I was diagnosed as bipolar when I was a teenager- I AM NOT BIPOLAR. It was a misdiagnoses. I was misdiagnosed because I APPEARED bipolar because of my acting out. My acting out that was caused by my mother abusing me. She'd slam my head off of doors, cabinets, the floor. Twist my arms. It's something that I still hurt from.

I called the cops myself NUMEROUS times. I would have loved it if they actually helped me







The cops in this area SUCK.

My point is- you don't know she's actually bipolar. Bipolar or not, she does not deserve to be treated that way. Even if she IS bipolar and she lashes out at her family and she hits and kicks them and whathaveyou, they STILL HAVE NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER TO HARM HER. You can FORCE a minor into counseling. They do not have to consent so that is the biggest BS excuse ever.

You need to call the cops and CPS. I was alone. Nobody would call for me. What stopped it all was the day my mother nearly broke my brothers neck, I pulled her off of him and beat the crap out of her like there was no tomorrow...

My point there is if you don't help her, things can and will get out of control and she may not be able to stop herself as I was. OR her parents may be the ones to go too far.

Tying her to a chair is 100% unacceptable especially because you said they use it as a means to keep her from leaving at night- that to me indicates that she's left to sleep like that. What if she has to use the restroom? Why the hell should she be forced to sleep in a chair? If she does indeed have a chemical imbalance, they are making things WORSE.

You NEED to call the cops and CPS. She's 17, even if she goes in foster care, she won't be there long. There's a pretty good chance though that they'll just help her out on her own.

All of you who said not to call, really, think about that? What if she gets so fed up with it that she snaps and kills her parents? Something a phone call could have prevented. Or if she tries to fight back and they kill her? Please, PLEASE don't make this poor girl continue to be treated like this.

It's not fair to her and she doesn't deserve it.

I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH A CHILD MISBEHAVES. THEY NEVER, AND I MEAN, NEVER DESERVE TO BE ABUSED.

ETA: My mom IS bipolar. She was very ill at the time that our troubles happened. I just wanted to mention that she found great meds and is MUCH MUCH MUCH better now.


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## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

My brother & sister have mental illnesses, when they get out of control, you hold them (in hugging way) and even if they hit you, because of whatever, you don't hit them back, or tie them in a chair, or choke them.
I am really so alarmed by what I read, and actually dumb founded that people don't call cops on people that abuse.

How would you feel, if you were abused, and no one did a thing? Everyone just watched it happen. How would you feel, if this happeneds again, and its too late, it went too far, and she is death, and you had a chance to do something, and you didn't?
Abuse is dangerous, it can end up in DEATH!


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

As someone who grew up being abused, please call the cops. I wish someone would've called called for me. If she has mental issues it will be figured out and she'll get helped.


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## MidgeMommy (Mar 22, 2007)

Soybeansmama, I think you are doing a wonderful job. The letter and the bread and your support is more than most people would do.

Also, I would think that the mom's reception of that letter is a GOOD sign for growth/improvement.

I agree with the anti-CPS people, though. If it really does escalate in the future, you are much better off calling the police. They have less authority to RUIN someone's life, but most people see them as more of an authority figure. CPS is just sneaky and subversively able to ruin families and lives.

Best of luck!


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MidgeMommy* 

I agree with the anti-CPS people, though. If it really does escalate in the future, you are much better off calling the police. They have less authority to RUIN someone's life, but most people see them as more of an authority figure. CPS is just sneaky and subversively able to ruin families and lives.

Best of luck!


Not going to squabble over whether CPS is subverisve and ruinous or not, but just an FYI, if you call the cops, CPS WILL be called if they determine foul play involving a minor. it is standard protocol. So call the police if you like, CPS will still be notified. Cops do not have the time or resources or authority to do anything more than write the report, foward it to a detective if necessary and then forward it to the county attorney's office.The cops job only is to determine if a crime has been committed, not to help a family with a problematic child. That is CPS's job.


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## MidwifeErika (Jun 30, 2005)

I agree with calling the police. The biggest thing that sticks out to me is that if the dad is willing to put in in a choke hold and be really physical with her outside in the yard then my gosh, you have to wonder what he does in the privacy of his own home. I am sure it isn't gentle disapline! I think it is good to let the girl know that you are there to help her, but having your home to stay in doesn't do her any good if she is tied to a chair and can't get out of her parent's home, you know? I don't know that I would even wait to see something again... I think it would be good to call and tell the things that you have seen so far and let them look into it some more. I worry for that girl. What if she isn't really bipolar but is acting up do to the abuse? If someone tied me to a chair I think I would be acting up too. And if it is that dangerous for her right now to be unrestrained, then I think that she should be checked into a hospital to have her medications fixed.


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## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

I see your in modesto, ca. So I googled a site up for you, might be a good thing to read and call..........http://www.kidsdata.org/index.jsp


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## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

or you can call this hotline:
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/chil...al_neglect.htm


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## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

In the last website that I shared with ya, it clearly says:

child abuse:

Extreme punishment
Confinement to a closet or dark room, tying to a chair for long periods of time, or terrorizing a child.


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## zzwhitejd (Jul 5, 2005)

I agree completely with aprildawn.


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## soybeansmama (Jan 26, 2006)

kmisje, thanks for the links!! My mom works for social services and we visited tonight. She had some good advice.

Thanks midgemommy for the support!
Jessica


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## KristenandMadelein (Feb 10, 2006)

I think that you personally should not get involved. Unless you are trained on how to deal with situations like this, you could make it worse.

I would personally call the authorities and allow them to do their job and help the family.

It is a sticky situation, but calling the cops or cps is the only thing you should do. You don't know exactly what there situation is, so you would be going off of what you think is happening and that could cause some unneeded trouble.

Please call the cops.


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## mom22girls (May 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soybeansmama* 
It's confusing to me because her mom actually works with troubled teens at a continuation high school.







: ...

I had a friend who's mom was a child psych, and her family was one of the most dysfunctional I've ever experienced. I agree, call social services/the cops. Good for you to offer a cooling out place.


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## Stephig (Jun 6, 2007)

Wow, that _is_ disturbing. No wonder she keeps sneaking out! I wouldn't want to live there either.
I would consider that child abuse and would call Child Protective Services and let them handle it.

I understand how you would want to keep the peace with your neighbors, but you might save that girl from something horrible by calling the authorities.


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## DBassett (May 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MidgeMommy* 
I agree with the anti-CPS people, though. If it really does escalate in the future, you are much better off calling the police. They have less authority to RUIN someone's life, but most people see them as more of an authority figure. CPS is just sneaky and subversively able to ruin families and lives.

Have you ever actually called the cops in a situation like this? Have you ever witnessed something like this? Have you ever been involved with CPS? NONE of what you said is true.

CPS ignored me most of the time and didn't try to "ruin" my family. I WANTED to leave because I was being beaten and instead of removing me, they tried their best to help my mom. Furthermore, the cops WILL call CPS if there are signs of abuse. They legally have to.

Further more, the cops tried to ruin my dads life. My mom beat my dad as well and the cops pretty much told my dad that it's IMPOSSIBLE for a woman to beat her husband and that if he didn't keep his mouth shut they were going to arrest him. He did NOTHING. My dad is the one who freaking called the cops to protect himself, my brother and me and the police turned around and threatened him. COPS CAN AND DO RUIN PEOPLE'S LIVES.

CPS is not sneaky. I really don't have any idea where you get that from. I hate CPS but I wouldn't call them sneaky. IME, they try to help the family before removing anyone. How is that sneaky? Your information is a bit off...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *hotwings640* 
I agree with calling the police. The biggest thing that sticks out to me is that if the dad is willing to put in in a choke hold and be really physical with her outside in the yard then my gosh, you have to wonder what he does in the privacy of his own home. I am sure it isn't gentle disapline! I think it is good to let the girl know that you are there to help her, but having your home to stay in doesn't do her any good if she is tied to a chair and can't get out of her parent's home, you know? I don't know that I would even wait to see something again... I think it would be good to call and tell the things that you have seen so far and let them look into it some more. I worry for that girl. *What if she isn't really bipolar but is acting up do to the abuse?* If someone tied me to a chair I think I would be acting up too. And if it is that dangerous for her right now to be unrestrained, then I think that she should be checked into a hospital to have her medications fixed.

The bolded is what I said in my PP. I was diagnosed as bipolar because I was acting out. I am NOT bipolar. Since moving out, I have NO symptoms whatsoever. There is nothing mentally wrong with me but it APPEARED that way because of the abuse.

Now I have this to say- if you know the abuse is happening and you don't call anyone- you're just as responsible. That sounds harsh but every single person who KNEW I was getting abused by my mom and sat back and did nothing was just as much to blame because they KNEW about it and didn't help. In other words, they allowed it to keep happening. You need to call the cops and CPS. If you don't feel comfortable talking to CPS, the cops will call for you.


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## merpk (Dec 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zzwhitejd* 
I agree completely with aprildawn.


So do I.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DBassett* 
I was diagnosed as bipolar when I was a teenager- I AM NOT BIPOLAR. It was a misdiagnoses. I was misdiagnosed because I APPEARED bipolar because of my acting out. My acting out that was caused by my mother abusing me. <snip> My point is- you don't know she's actually bipolar. Bipolar or not, she does not deserve to be treated that way.

I had wanted to mention this too. She may not be bipolar!!! I would probably ACT or FEEL bipolar in that situation!

Also, if she is bipolar, being in this situation could push her to kill herself.

Don't wait for next time. Next time someone could be dead. I say call the cops and cps now.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

I've been asked to edit my original post. Too bad.

In a nutshell.

If you (the general you) think that your rights as a parent are more important than the rights of an abused minor child, then clearly you have not grasped the concept of gentle discipline. If you can read about a child being dragged, being put in a chokehold, being tied to a chair, and think 'Hmph, Cops and CPS will just make it worse', you need to do some reading and some SERIOUS self-examination.

That attitude is no different than parents who say, "IT's my right to spank and nobody better interfere". Only, actually, 10x worse.

I could cry at some of the responses on this thread. I could seriously cry.


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## guestmama9908 (Jan 23, 2007)

Wow! I am really shocked by all of the people who think that this situation doesn't warrant Police or CPS involvment.

I grew up in a physically and emotionally abusive home. I endured things and went through treatment that no child should ever have to go through.

My parents were "well off, and pillars of the community" so nobody would ever bother to call when they saw abuse or saw the evidence of it.

I was treated in much the same way as this girl, confined to small areas for days on end etc. I became very depressed and had thoughts of suicide. I felt as if no one in the whole world cared what happened to me.

I was a good kid and didn't act out or misbehave. I was just my parent's punching bag and scapegoat.

I tried numerous times to get help by writing in my english class journals about the abuse. These were the journals we had to turn in. Did any of those teachers ever try to help me? No

I finally went to my school counselor for help. I told her what was going on in my house. I assumed that she would help me.

She called my parents and told them everything I said! They came and picked me up from school and took me home. You do not want to know the hell I endured for several days after that.

Please help this poor girl. Call someone who can do something to protect her.


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## ShaggyDaddy (Jul 5, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CalenandEllasmomma* 
Wow! I am really shocked by all of the people who think that this situation doesn't warrant Police or CPS involvment.

I agree, if you replaced the word Teenager with "Wife" or "Toddler" the reactions would be EXTREMLY different. We live in a society that hates teenagers, and I don't really understand why.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Call CPS.


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## gargirl (Dec 30, 2006)

It is seriously breaking my heart reading this thread...

The police need to be involved, CPS needs to be involved. As a kid i went through abuse; physical, mental, emotional and sexual and no one did anything to help me. No one called the police no matter how I screamed. I was threatened that if the police got involved my dad would go to jjail and we would all starve... I couldn't call, someone else needed to.

Instead I suffered in that household until I was 18. I had tried to kill myself 3 times by then! My mom sent me to shrinks and tried to have me commited at one point... but I wasn't the one who had mental illness! It was her! She needs help to this day and refuses to get it.

I really hope the OP is ready to call the police next time she sees something. Or better yet call CPS now.

So darn depressing.


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## gabysmom617 (Nov 26, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DBassett* 
I have to strongly disagree with EVERYONE who said not to call the cops and CPS.

I was diagnosed as bipolar when I was a teenager- I AM NOT BIPOLAR. It was a misdiagnoses. I was misdiagnosed because I APPEARED bipolar because of my acting out. My acting out that was caused by my mother abusing me. She'd slam my head off of doors, cabinets, the floor. Twist my arms. It's something that I still hurt from.

...

I haven't read through all the rest of the posts yet, but I forgot to mention this also:

Sometimes abusive parents will assign their child a "disorder" to justify their abuse, when the child doesn't really have one. Please also take that into consideration. Even if she does have bipolar, as so many other posters mention, if she is in THAT MUCH of a danger to herself, she should be hospitalized, and if she was, the doctors and nurses would not be allowed to treat her the way her parents are.


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## LionTigerBear (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShaggyDaddy* 
I agree, if you replaced the word Teenager with "Wife" or "Toddler" the reactions would be EXTREMLY different. We live in a society that hates teenagers, and I don't really understand why.

Yes, it's true.







:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gabysmom617* 
Sometimes abusive parents will assign their child a "disorder" to justify their abuse, when the child doesn't really have one.

Yes yes yes!!! I actually doubt she is bipolar. I acted bipolar as a teenager when I was in abusive homes. But I wasn't.

Calenandellasmomma, I'm so sorry for what happened to you.


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

because I HAVE seen it make things worse where the officers were told that it was just an out of control teenager and been supportive of things like described here.
Once when we were looking for resources for my ds the officer said "have you tried just kicking his a##? That is all he really needs" and as many good things as there are where I live there are not so great things too.
At least by finding out what the mentality is in the area-the op can decide whether the police department or cps or the mental health authority ( I didn't see anyone mention that one..you can call here sometimes and get help, ) is the best way to go for the young girl.

And for the poster who said 'what if you were abused and no one called?' BTDT survived it and even the therapist that finally helped said it would have made things worse in my family ( which I knew) and for me...
Now that said I am NOT NOT NOT advocating not helping this girl-far from it so don't go off on me about it..

I am just suggesting the op test the waters. Because if she lives in an area where the police will side with the parents it could make things worse for the girl in the home when they leave....


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## Frithweaver (Jun 12, 2007)

(((hug))) (((hug))) (((hug))) (((hug)))!!!

Heilsa!








I just wanted to say that! this kind of stress in your last trimester?!







:









One thing I think to add, she is less than a year from independence. IF she gets put into the system, and IF she "runs away" steals a car"







then she'll get a "record". If she leaves home on her own, maybe not. This all just sucks.

*Everyone is right about calling the police, of course.* Shaggy Daddy had an excellent point







. And yet Cerridwen(Lorelei???) also, sadly, had a good point too.







:

I think you've done a good thing, and I think if you see it again, that you know very well what to do. And kudos for telling them that you would!!! That was very respectable and brave!

Poor girl.

In frith!







:


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## soybeansmama (Jan 26, 2006)

Yes, this is stressful! I am homebirthing in about 4 weeks and I am trying to deal with this in the safest and most responsible way that I can...

To everyone who have shared their own abuse stories...I am so sorry that this thread has triggered that for you... I am so sorry for the pain that you have gone through.







:

I have contacted CPS and asked lots of questions. I am in touch with the family and speak with them every day. They were grateful for the letter and for the support. I believe that they are at a crossroads as a family. Thanks for everyones responses. I am giving this thread a rest for now...

Jessica


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## Aliviasmom (Jul 24, 2006)

If she IS bipolar and is a danger (to herself or to others) she can be ordered (by court) to be involuntarily admitted to a psychiatric hospital.

But yes, CALL THE COPS if you see this. Take pictures, videos, get witnesses/statements together to prepare. If the cops come and nothing can be proven, chances are it's only going to get worse.

And personally (I'm not sure legally) I think the mother is just as responsible for NOT doing anything if the father is that abusive.


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## MichaelsSahm (May 11, 2006)

x


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

If you're not going to report the abuse, can you tell someone else to call CPS or the cops for you? Is there anyone here on MDC that you could PM the address to so someone can report the abuse before that poor girl gets murdered or kills herself?

It's not your job to be mediating this abuse between the girl and her parents, but *it is seriously and urgently your responsibility* to report this abuse to the authorities _now_.

Please don't dilly-dally about calling CPS or the cops. Just call them. Stop wasting time by chatting with the parents to see "their side" of things. Choking minors and tying them to chairs is simply wrong and abusive. There is no need to "understand" the family situation better. The girl is being abused, and now that you know about it, you need to report it to the authorities *today*. It's as simple as picking up the phone and dialing.


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## KristenandMadelein (Feb 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soybeansmama* 
Yes, this is stressful! I am homebirthing in about 4 weeks and I am trying to deal with this in the safest and most responsible way that I can...

To everyone who have shared their own abuse stories...I am so sorry that this thread has triggered that for you... I am so sorry for the pain that you have gone through.







:

I have contacted CPS and asked lots of questions. I am in touch with the family and speak with them every day. They were grateful for the letter and for the support. I believe that they are at a crossroads as a family. Thanks for everyones responses. I am giving this thread a rest for now...

Jessica

I am really trying to be respectful about what I am saying to you. But the thoughts that are going through my head!

What qualifactions do you posses that allow you to examine this situation and talk to the family yourself? Because I am just going to be blunt. By you not calling CPS and stepping away from the situation you are more than likely perpetuating the situation. Seriously. Calling CPS is your duty as a member of society. If you saw someone being murdered on the street, would you go over there and try to reason with the killer? Write him a letter about why he is doing it and that you are worried about it? I seriously doubt it. If you are homebirthing soon and want a safe enviorment, then why aren't you doing the proper thing?

It really, really gets my thumbs going when you see people post things like this on the internet asking for advice. We give the obvious suggestions and the OP tries to talk their way out of it. If you weren't planning on taking our advice, then why post?

Call CPS. Stop trying to "help" and REALLY help by calling CPS.


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## robynlyn80 (Jun 18, 2006)

as a social worker and former cps investigator, cps needs to be involved. if the child is truly bipolar and out of control, if the family truly is just at their wits end, then cps can help get that child into a more appropriate environment (a hospital or res. tx center). but this is not your place to judge if cps should be involved or not. anyone SUSPECTING abuse or neglect should report. you don't have to know all the facts or be sure its abuse. thats cps' job.

i have made 100s of calls to cps because of my job (working primarily with children). i am a trained social worker, with additional training as a cps investigator. i still NEVER attempt to determine if the situation is abusive. if i SUSPECT abuse, i call. it is NOT my role to investigate the situation, and certainly as a caring neighbor, it is not your role.

i understand that sometimes cps can make things worse. but the benefits of calling here clearly outweigh the risks. being tied to a chair? a choke hold? she is a CHILD. would you have called the cops if you saw a man do this to her wife? even if she was bipolar? OF COURSE!!!!!!

and for further clarification, in the moment i would call the police. but if its the next day or any time later, just call cps. the cops arent going to come out unless its immediately occuring. but cps (at least where i worked) would have investigated that immediately. it is assault. i investigated a case where a dad slapped his 17 year old son AFTER his son slapped him. it was still investigated immediately upon receiving the report, it was still considered abuse- YOU CANNOT ASSAULT PEOPLE- and tying them to a chair is assault.


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## 2tadpoles (Aug 8, 2004)

I would call CPS and not the cops.

As others have already said, cops are only going to document the incident and then pass the buck to CPS, anyway. Not only that, but they'll probably haul one or both parents off to jail, which doesn't really help anything in the long run. The family needs intervention, but not like that, IMO.

I had an abusive spouse a long time ago. The cops would come, arrest him, and let him go the next day so he could come home and do it again. The police are there for damage control, and that's it.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soybeansmama* 
I have contacted CPS and asked lots of questions.

Jessica

she *DID* call CPS. obviously CPS should have said "we're coming out there now!!". but they didn't. that's not her fault.


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## ThreeBeans (Dec 2, 2006)

Thank you for calling.


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## MommytoB (Jan 18, 2006)

I'm a 'victim of things that are similiar like that & you know what the social work & cops did ??? The social worker actually ended up making me feel guilty about wanting to leave home. I ran away alot and called cops it was a invisible sight through it and the 'cruelty had got increased @ home. I was also dx with a bipolar but first before that it was adhd.

When I was little I was even pinned down to the bed during nite time with a dishtowel attached to my gown the towel pinned on the back 'stopped' working after i learned how to unpin myself that was when i was a toddler.

Plus, when my mom tried to teach me a lesson for not answering phones she faked herself as a guy stating that she was going to come & get us so I was so scared. I called the cops and my mom while i was babysitting my brother she was happy i called her but did not like the 'fact of the cops showed up'

So how do you think the cops reacted after all those crazy psycho lil girl stories to when I was an adult and actually had a 'peeping tom ' at my 2nd apartment ?

They didn't even show up til a guy from my supported living service said that there was a guy out there that he had to chase away.

Sheesh , then that happened 3 more times I couldn't count on the cops or even the neighbors because they were thinking they were hearing stuff that was farther down & we were in the neighborhood watch program plus I couldn't do the asking for living service to come become a risk of putting their staff in danger.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

MommytoB









I am sad for the little girl that you were. Many people do want to help, as you can see here. Mamas do care about children, even those who they didn't birth. There is a lot of love being sent to the children who need it most. We can break the cycle as we learn to trust that people do care.

Pat


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## PrennaMama (Oct 10, 2005)

First of all...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *soybeansmama* 
Wow...I wasn't asking if this was OK. Clearly it is not and clearly I am disturbed... This family does need help and I am desperatly trying to figure out how to do that

I just wrote her a letter and gave it to her rather than talking to her one on one. I gave the letter to her mom and told her that she could read it first. I watched her hand it to her daughter. I am making bread for them and will bring it over to them later. That will be a good opportunity for them to discuss things with me...

GOOD on you. "It takes a village" isn't just for cute little babies and grannies... teenagers need the Village too! You are being a concerned and loving friend and neighbor, and it's acts like this that give the rest of us hope in a world where so many just automatically look the other way without even _considering_ intervention.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShaggyDaddy* 
...if you replaced the word Teenager with "Wife" or "Toddler" the reactions would be EXTREMLY different. We live in a society that hates teenagers, and I don't really understand why.

The Why of it comes from the fact that teens are just children trying to be grown-ups, and that act can get pretty hairy. Maybe if more parents nurtured their children's innocense and honored their childhood, they wouldn't try to grow up so fast and drive everyone around them nuts with their efforts to be so grown-up.

But I totally agree, and there DOES need to be more understanding and patience with the teens...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gabysmom617* 
About the not going to counseling thing, that's still not an excuse. They are the parents they can make an appointment, pick her up from school, and put her in the car and take her there. If nothing else, THEY can go to counseling alone without her (if she absolutely won't go) and learn for themselves how to deal with her without having to escalate to this point.

That "she won't go to counseling" is a flimsy excuse for an excuse.

Agreed... are her parents aware that this is an avenue worth their time and energy? What did CPS say about counseling??

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom* 
Person tied to chair. Call 911. If the authortieis dont do anything, at least *you* did the right thing. *Asking us first is not the right thing.* Pick up your phone. Period.

Many people wouldn't think twice about just looking the other way. The fact that soybean _DID_ stop and think, and ask for consultation from a community of people I presume she looks to for support and insight is _HUGE_, and does not warrant criticism. I applaud anyone who is strong enough to question their own decision and be vulnerable enough to stop and look for insight.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wytchywoman* 
... call the police if you like, CPS will still be notified. Cops do not have the time or resources or authority to do anything more than write the report, foward it to a detective if necessary and then forward it to the county attorney's office.The cops job only is to determine if a crime has been committed, not to help a family with a problematic child. That is CPS's job.

And as much as many poeple have horror stories about CPS, they are the frontline when it comes to these kinds of situations...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristenandMadelein* 
I think that you personally should not get involved. Unless you are trained on how to deal with situations like this, you could make it worse.

<snip>

Please call the cops.

Soybean already illustrated that these are neighbors with whom she feels some closeness and speaks to on a regular basis... Maybe scenarios like this would have a better chance of being resolved in a loving and compassionate manner if _more_ people _DID_ make it their personal business to intervene. I'm not suggesting she go over there with a weapon or anything, in the thick of trouble... but just what she did is a great start: availing herself as part of what could be considered a support network, at an opportune time.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ThreeBeans* 
I've been asked to edit my original post. Too bad.

In a nutshell.

If you (the general you) think that your rights as a parent are more important than the rights of an abused minor child, then clearly you have not grasped the concept of gentle discipline. If you can read about a child being dragged, being put in a chokehold, being tied to a chair, and think 'Hmph, Cops and CPS will just make it worse', you need to do some reading and some SERIOUS self-examination.

That attitude is no different than parents who say, "IT's my right to spank and nobody better interfere". Only, actually, 10x worse.

I could cry at some of the responses on this thread. I could seriously cry.

I liked this version... I am right there with you.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KristenandMadelein* 
I am really trying to be respectful about what I am saying to you. But the thoughts that are going through my head!

What qualifactions do you posses that allow you to examine this situation and talk to the family yourself? Because I am just going to be blunt. By you not calling CPS and stepping away from the situation you are more than likely perpetuating the situation. Seriously. Calling CPS is your duty as a member of society. If you saw someone being murdered on the street, would you go over there and try to reason with the killer? Write him a letter about why he is doing it and that you are worried about it? I seriously doubt it. If you are homebirthing soon and want a safe enviorment, then why aren't you doing the proper thing?

It really, really gets my thumbs going when you see people post things like this on the internet asking for advice. We give the obvious suggestions and the OP tries to talk their way out of it. If you weren't planning on taking our advice, then why post?

Call CPS. Stop trying to "help" and REALLY help by calling CPS.

This is just out of hand. I'm shocked that anyone (here) would sit in judgement of another who sought consultation, like this. The OP came here out of need. Her neighbors are in need. And at some point, everyone is is need of insight, support, empathy, whathaveyou. This is NOT someone being murdered in the street. This is a friend, and a child... these are people that are NOT strangers and it goes beyond a societal obligation to intervene, crossing over into a personal obligation, when it's folks you _know_. You ask why even post? Turn it around... why would _anyone_ post the "obvious" after it had been posted so many times already? Did you feel the op just needed a little more brow-beating? Did you feel better after calling her actions and motives into question?

Sheesh people.

I see people advocating for gentle discipline out one side of their mouth and then shaming and judging out the other side... it just bums me out.

*soybean*... I sincerely applaud you for your caring and efforts. You will hold a special place in that family's memory. Please let us know what transpires... what did CPS instruct you to do? Have you considered calling the Deptartment of Human Services child abuse hotline? What did your mother add?

My thoughts and prayers are with you...


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## wytchywoman (Nov 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elizawill* 
she *DID* call CPS. obviously CPS should have said "we're coming out there now!!". but they didn't. that's not her fault.

"Calling CPS and asking lots of questions" does not necessarily mean that she filed a report. I can call CPS at any time and say I know family X, daughter A has bipolar and mom and dad are struggling and maybe doing some inappropriate things what should I do?"
That is not filing a report. To file a report you have to be willing to call with the intent to provide CPS with enough personal info to contact the family and investigate. You have to know the address of the family, the names and ages if at all possible of the people involved etc.... I did not get the impression that she reported it, she simply called and asked questions. If I am mistaken please let me know.


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

i assume her questions with CPS were honest and explicit as to the same nature in which she posted here. CPS should have said, we need to file a report. we're coming out there asap. but they didn't. it's not her fault. i think everyone is jumping down this pregnant mama's throat like she cares less about this teenage girl, and imo, that's just not the case....not fair to her at all in my opinion.


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## rayo de sol (Sep 28, 2006)

Is there any update on this situation?

I am really hoping that by now the abuse has been properly reported to CPS and that they are investigating it.


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