# What tells you that another mom you see is on "our team"?



## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

When you see/meet another mom, what clues do you look for to see if she practices a similar parenting style?


----------



## Elphaba (Nov 19, 2001)

hmmmmm, i used to think using a sling and nursing were good indicators, but i have since met a woman who nurses and slings and thinks it's fine to slap an infants hands!









it's hard to tell at first glance you know? i'd look for someone who is interacting a lot with their baby, talking to them, sitting on the floor with them, etc. instead of parking their carrier or stroller and doing their own thing. with toddlers and older kids, you can kind of tell by the way the parent acts if the kid gets upset in public.


----------



## OnTheFence (Feb 15, 2003)

Its hard at times but a sling is a sign to me. Not many people use them here. Also if I see a baby in natural clothing or cloth diapers a little flag pops up.


----------



## Dodo (Apr 10, 2002)

Hmmm.... I think it's less about the products, more about the parenting style. The most detached mom I know uses a sling and does EC!

Edited to add that slings are becoming very common here. They even sell them in major department stores (e.g., The Bay).


----------



## gabesmama (Aug 3, 2002)

when her toddler is grabbing her boobs yelling boo boo. That usually is a good sign.


----------



## ~Megan~ (Nov 7, 2002)

There are so very few AP moms here that I take anything I can get. I know a few who cosleep, organic foods, cloth diaper, bf, and use gentle parenting. I try to be around those moms the most.
Very rarely do I see slings (I think I've only seen someone use one once, besides those whom I sold them to) in use here but I get asked about them a lot. I see moms bf occasionally but bottles are much more common.
Its kind of sad, I think


----------



## TranscendentalMom (Jun 28, 2002)

Usually if I see a woman breastfeed in public thats a sign - I got into a whole conversation with a girl at the mall one day because we were both breastfeeding our babes. A sling is a good sign. A bottle of formula is not. But mostly I think its an attitude. I try not to be too quick to judge because I often use a stroller, sometimes a binky too & it occurs to me that I might look the same as all those mainstream moms when I'm cruising at the mall. I believe the difference is that when my baby cries I don't stand there ignoring him or still strolling - I stop and pick him up.


----------



## JesseMomme (Apr 6, 2002)

I too will take anything I can get and go from there (so yeah superficial first, go deeper later on) if I saw another momma with a sling I think I'd faint from shock!
If I saw a cloth diaper, or lots of organic in the fridge, different kinds of tea on the shelf, or maybe spot a few "good" books on the bookshelf -it would be a good sign here.


----------



## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

I look for a sling, nursing in public (esp. not covered up







), the way they talk to their baby/children, if they have older kids out in the middle of the day I figure they're homeschooling, carrying cloth bags, wood toys, it's just an overall feeling that I get from the person. It's rare for me but I love when it happens!


----------



## khrisday (Mar 18, 2002)

Can't we all, as women and mother's be on the same "team"?


----------



## member (Apr 15, 2002)

I look for a couple of different things, but mostly how the mama interacts with her child. Is she treating baby as a real little person and being gentle? Eye contact and eye level with toddlers? Not trying to micromanage the child to death? Those are all good signs to me.

Slings are a hard find in my area, but when I do see a mama using one I usually smile and ask her whay brand it is and how it is working for her - yk nice but not intrusive. I also always try to support mamas who b/f in public too.


----------



## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

Good question, khrisday.


----------



## ekblad9 (Nov 21, 2001)

Well, as far as the question of can we be on the same team goes, I guess we can to a point. I personally choose not to be close friends with someone that spanks their children and talks to them in a disrespectful manner. I just find it difficult to be around and expose my kids to things like that.


----------



## sozobe (Aug 5, 2002)

Excellent question.

There's an analogy in the Deaf community about crabs -- something about when a crab tries to climb out of the bucket, all the other crabs grab him and drag him back. I did research on oppressed minorities of various types, and how that oppression manifests itself, and that is one way among many different groups -- in-fighting, categorizing, variations of internalizing oppression.

I see that with women, too, especially moms, and that kinda sucks. I totally totally understand what you mean about "on the same team", in terms of a kindred spirit, and also rejoice when I've found someone like that. But I really agree with khrisday.


----------



## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

khrisday, I wish we could be on the same team, but even on these boards it is often one side pitted against the other. I remember a sahm vs. wohm thread that got really nasty, kwim?

The reason I started this is that I met a really nice woman who told me she didn't bf any of her kids, but she was so loving and gentle with them. It got me to wonder what other people look for to seek out friends. I saw her as being my kind of mom even though she didn't do many of the "ap things" I normally look for(bfing, babywearing, etc.).


----------



## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:

When you see/meet another mom, what clues do you look for to see if she practices a similar parenting style?
Despite the title, which was meant to be lighthearted, I don't see anything wrong with my initial question.

Warning, rant: Maybe I am touchy, but I resent the implication that because I posted the above question, that I don't see all moms as being on the same team. If you read my post history, you'll see that I am one of the most accepting moms here. I constantly defend ffers, device users (pacies, strollers, slings, etc.), wohms, etc. against posters who put them down.


----------



## joesmom (Nov 19, 2001)

the original poster did not ask "can't we all be on the same team?" i don't think lara meant anything negative w/ her thread title, it would make sense for us as moms to search out other moms w/ similar interests & values. why respond to a post if you aren't even going to answer the question?!

lara asked:

Quote:

What tells you that another mom you see is on "our team"?
i would look for a mom who looked like she was actually having FUN w/her kids. i would pay no attention to accoutrements, bottles or slings or diapers.


----------



## AutumnWind (Apr 16, 2002)

It's hard to tell if a mom's doing AP by looking at her. Really the only AP moms I've met around are through LLL or on the Finding Your Tribe Board here on MDC. I think it's a good indication if someone goes to LLL meetings that they might be AP (although not a sure thing).

A sling can be a clue, but I never got the hang of my sling, so I just carried my little one everywhere. I do love when I see a mommy breastfeeding in public. I always smile & give a nod of encouragement.

As far as the natural living question, sometimes that can be a little easier to "spot". Cloth diapers, kind of a 'granola' look to the mommy, natural baby clothes, that sort of thing.

I get very high marks for AP, and lower marks for natural living, so I'm not sure you could spot me as easily, since AP is harder to "see" visually (unless I'm breastfeeding my 21 month old in public, which I often do). I think I "look" pretty mainstream, really, although I'm quite left of center.


----------



## Laurel (Jan 30, 2002)

I agree that it's really hard to tell unless you get to talking to someone. For me, it would probably be cloth diapers or a sling. If I see someone walking through the mall carrying their baby (sling or in-arms) instead of in a stroller or bucket, it puts a smile on my face and I start assuming things. But of course, never assume. I know alot of nursing mothers, and 95% of them are not AP. If you were to see me on the street or in the store, you might write me off because I'd be feeding my baby a bottle. You would have no idea that he's adopted and I spent 6 months trying to induce lactation. Finding out that someone co-sleeps is a huge indicator for me. Yet a good number of my adoptive parents friends sleep with their babies, and many are not what I'd consider AP.

I think like someone said, alot of it has to do with how the other parent interacts with their child. Spanking, CIO, ignoring--all those things say alot to me. Or gentle discipline, responding quickly to a crying baby, and paying attention/getting into their world--those things would tell me that this parent thinks like me. There are obviously blatent things, like a parent yelling at their children, humiliating them, treating them disrespectfully, etc. that would tell me that we wouldn't see eye-to-eye.

But again, there are just so many variables. I just think that because all moms are so unique and individual, and all are operating under their own extenuating circumstances, that there's really no way to tell just by looking or by casual conversation. There is no single model of an "AP" mother, or even more so, there is no single model of a "good mother".


----------



## Fieryfly (Mar 19, 2003)

My kids have gotten older, so it sometimes gets a little tough to find moms who are positive, gentle, or attachment parenting. I usually take notice if the mom gets down to the child's level and takes the time to really listen and communicate with them. Also, seeing how the mom reacts to their child's behavior(both positive and neg behavior) is a good indicator, for me.

Making friends does not come easy to me, and when I really click with someone, it still takes a lot of energy to get that friendship started and to keep it going. Getting to know other parents who have similar lifestyles and parenting practices is very important to me, esp if our children spend a lot of time together.


----------



## lucina3 (Jun 25, 2002)

For me it's seeing somone one treats her child. It's a better indicator to me than seeing if she uses formula or breastfeeds or whether her child has a pacifier or not. To me AP boils down to love and respect of your child and that's what I look for!


----------



## sozobe (Aug 5, 2002)

Laralou, I know what you mean about "could I be friends with her if...?" I have one friend who stopped bf'ing at 4 months so she could go on her annual trip to Vegas, solo.







That was tough for me to wrap my mind around. Her dd is sweet and smart and well-adjusted, though, and our kids get along great, so we continue the friendship, though there are some subjects we dance around since we know we disagree. We still manage to have a lot of fun when we get together, though -- we share a similar sense of humor, etc.

I wasn't suggesting anything nefarious in your question, btw, and sorry if it came out that way. I just think khrisday's is a very interesting question. (Maybe worthy of its own thread...?)


----------



## Moon (Nov 25, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by someone:_
*Usually if I see a woman breastfeed in public thats a sign - a good sign. A bottle of formula is not.*










I am so freaking sick of other mothers assuming I'm a scum bag for formula feeding.

My tits didn't work, ok? Sometimes that happens, despite everything. You want to be judgemental over a bottle? Fine. Be that way. I'm going to judge you for being a judgemental @&*!$.

I usually try really hard to be gentle in my words, and I make a huge effort to make sure there isn't any misunderstanding, etc, but I'm so FREAKING SICK OF IT I can't be nice about it any more.










Edited to add:

I prefer to spend my time (and my children's time) with people who respect and encourage their own kids.


----------



## lucina3 (Jun 25, 2002)

Moon, I know I PM'd you, but wanted to thank you publicly as well for posting this. The whole time I've been at Mothering I've been biting my tongue but it's about time someone said something.


----------



## onehipmomma (Nov 19, 2001)

Having things in common with somebody has absolutely nothing to do with "being on the same team" as the phrase was presented in this thread. Yes, by all means it is important as women that we ALL support one another on this journey, however, when it comes to picking friends, it is important to have common ground. For the purpose of this thread that common ground is the parenting style we have chosen.

As far as Khrisday's statement about being on the same team, quite frankly I find it very upsetting as I have seen you flame many a poster (myself included) for choices they have made that may not coincide with your own. Where does that come into play for "being on the same team"?


----------



## peggy (Nov 19, 2001)

This thread is recieving a warning. Personal issues should be brought to PM..stay on topic or start another thread.

Lara asked what you look for in a friend

peggy


----------



## glh (Nov 19, 2001)

It is hard to tell just by outward appearances, I once met a mom who was bf and using a sling, but she had never gone to LLL because she heard they slept with their babies and that turned her off. On the other hand, I made a judgment about a mom who was feeding her baby in a stroller without holding her. However, months later when her dd and mine were in a music class together and I actually talked at length to the mom we had more in common than I would have thought. I am friends with moms that bf for a year or less or ff and when I am with them they are always involved, gentle and respectful of their children.

The one person that surprised me the most was my SIL, right after she and my brother had their dd I thought she would be the most gentle mom in the world. I only see them about twice a year, so imagine my surprise when she and my brother were always threatening to spank and then actually did it when my niece had a potty accident. My brother and I had previously talked about discipline etc. and I told him that I didn't believe in spanking. I guess he didn't take any of my advice.









I just don't think you can tell until you get to know someone.


----------



## beanzer (Feb 3, 2003)

Maybe this a bit of geographic/demographic issue - I know in my neighbourhood the AP families are easy to spot - the carry their babies, breastfeed and both mums and kids radiate a really positive energy. I practically soar when I see a family and we exchange looks that lets us know we're in the same club, on the same team. It's been pretty snowy here lately, but a few weeks ago, my dh and I were walking to the grocery store, pulling our cart, carrying dd in her backpack, and we came across a family that was just coming back from the grocery store - daddy was pulling two toddlers plus groceries in a wagon, through the snow, and mummy had a new baby in a Snugli with her jacket zipper up over the babe. We looked at each other, and just knew. When we see each other in the park, when it gets nicer out, for sure we'll get to know each other better. I just don't get that feeling from the other families, screaming at their kids, carting around babies in all manner of buckets, shoving binkies in to keep them quiet, grocery carts filled with red dye number seven crapola and bottles of pop - the grocery store is a very telling place.

And Moon, I know it's true that SOME formula feeders have legitimate reasons for doing so (adoption, surgery, chemotherapy, etc.), but the vast, vast majority do not. I have a girlfriend from Rwanda, and she has never even heard of a woman who couldn't breastfeed. I think it's very interesting that in countries where women have no access to formula, 99.99% of them can miraculously breastfeed. You shouldn't be made to feel like a scumbag, but I think you need to understand that very few formula feeders are dedicated AP mamas who WOULD breastfeed if they COULD. I would definitely think twice before approaching any mother I saw with a bottle of formula. It's true that there is a slight chance that I am misjudging someone, but there's an even greater chance that I simply do not share similar parenting philosophies, and in my experience, I need to be on the same page with my friends in terms of parenting styles or it just doesn't work out.

It's easy to say "never judge" in theory, but in practice, we are all making judgement calls every moment of our lives. That's just reality, I think.


----------



## Quaniliaz (Oct 11, 2002)

I've been considering this same question - how can I tell if someone is ap or not??

A few weeks ago I met a mom who was talking about breastmilk, and then pulled out a bottle to feed her baby. This really bugged me - I think that breastfeeding is never going to be truly acceptable to everyone until we stop hiding it as if there is something wrong with it. I later found out that she had problems getting ehr baby to latch on, and has been pumping for him since he was born (6 months!!) Wow!! That is dedication!!

Sooo...I try to be a little less judgmental, but I think we all see certain things that make us assume we know something about a person - a lot of times we are right...but sometimes we aren't.

The same day there was a woman who put her 1 month old baby down, and just kept putting the pacifier in her mouth every time the baby sqeaked... She also breastfeeds,,, I'm pretty sure she doesn't ap...

So, I guess I look for how the parents interact with their babies - but that's hard to tell immediately...


----------



## Bladestar5 (Jan 5, 2003)

If I see a mom and she seems nice, and is kind and loving to her baby, I will send her here. Maybe the ideas the mom gets here will steer her in the direction of ap parenting.


----------



## joesmom (Nov 19, 2001)

bladestar,

my niece is pregnant & i told her stepmom about this board; i hope if she comes here she will not think there is too much nitpicking & miss all the valuable info & insights.


----------



## Dana (Nov 28, 2001)

The only thing I look for in another mom friend is that she is loving, respectful, and doing her best. None of the other "signs" are reliable indicators. (i.e. bottle, stroller, cloth diapers etc.)


----------



## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

Moon, I am so sorry if anything I said made you think I think less of you for not bfing. I do know that it doesn't work for everyone. I supplemented from ds's birth and exclusively ff him from 3 mos on. The reason I thought about it after meeting the mom I mentioned above is that it didn't even bother me a little bit that she didn't bf her kids, but I knew that it would bother some posters (I have read way too many rants about posters getting mad seeing a mom bottlefeed- and if you look in my post history you'll see I always defend them).

Anyhow, I guess I feel that with the girls I too am discriminated against. The moms I see with slings don't even look twice at me pushing my stroller full of twins with their pacie clips on. I want to send up a flag that says "I am one of you" so I can meet more like-minded moms, but I don't know how to do that since it is a LOT to sling both girls and I don't go anywhere without their pacies since I can only bf one at a time when we are away from home (I am NOT lugging that pillow everywhere) and I can't let one baby scream while she is waiting her turn- it would break my heart.


----------



## Elphaba (Nov 19, 2001)

laralou, i have an idea for you! you should get one of those hats that says "mom's breastaraunt" on it! that way everyone will KNOW you are a bad-ass breastfeeding babe!
they make AP advocacy shirts and hats, too. let me go find that link for you!


----------



## Bladestar5 (Jan 5, 2003)

I have a GREAT idea!! Let's make pins and t-shirts that say I am a proud AP MAMA!!!!


----------



## Bladestar5 (Jan 5, 2003)

Shoot...someone beat me to it!


----------



## sozobe (Aug 5, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Dana_
*The only thing I look for in another mom friend is that she is loving, respectful, and doing her best. None of the other "signs" are reliable indicators. (i.e. bottle, stroller, cloth diapers etc.)*
Totally, Dana!


----------



## Laurel (Jan 30, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by laralou_
Anyhow, I guess I feel that with the girls I too am discriminated against. The moms I see with slings don't even look twice at me pushing my stroller full of twins with their pacie clips on.
That's why I think that there are simply too many extenuating circumstances to use "stuff" (or lack of it) as an indicator. There are too many unique situations that we can't possibly see and know about. I think the only clue is how a mom interacts with her children.


----------



## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

I'm in the same camp as the mamas who said they just look at how another mama interacts with her children. I really don't care if my friends formula feed or dress their kids in Disney clothing or whatever. I'd be a terrible snob (and boring as hell) if I only associated with people who were just like me. As long as someone is loving and respectful with their children, then I can have her (or him!) as a friend. I couldn't help but strongly dislike anyone who treated her child unkindly on a regular basis.


----------



## Moon (Nov 25, 2001)

In keeping with Peggy's warning, I have opted to give beanzer my *opinion* in pm, however, I have posted a factual comment in reference to 99% of women miraculously breastfeeding in Rwanda in another thread.

Here is the link:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...263#post471263


----------



## momatheart23 (May 25, 2002)

I have to say that for me it is about respect, and that is all. There is no other tried and true indicator other than they respect their child. I will also have to support moon on this one. I am a nanny for two moms who tried for a week to BF their first. They had LC's and everything out to help them. Yet their children just wouldn't do it. They are very loving moms. In fact the second child of one did breastfeed, so you can see that some just won't. The other mom who had twins for her second, breastfeeding "worked" but she was a walking zombie from the lack of sleep, so ended up formula feeding so her husband could help with the night feedings. One of the moms in myplaygroup's daughter self weaned at 8 weeks, and she was very depressed about it and wanted her to continue. So although I am a BF mama and a huge supporter of it, I would never judge someone for using formula. I feel we do not know what it is like for them with their child, and formula could be the best decision. I also know the overwhelming guilt they felt for feeding them formula, and think that is wrong for them to feel that way. They tried and did their best. That is all any of us mamas can do


----------



## imakebelieve (May 5, 2002)

If I hadn't had some of the experiences I had, I might say: breastfeeding and using a sling instead of a bottle and a stoller, that kind of thing. But, since I was almost a bottle feeder (preemie born two months early and it took three months to latch on) and a baby so small and full of equipment that I needed the stoller to go out, I don't think it's always good to judge by these things. I remember when I had to give my son a bottle, I felt so horrible that other moms would think I was a bad mom because he was getting a bottle. I wanted to tell everyone that peeked in on him, "Oh, this is breast milk and I am trying day and night to teach him to nurse, I'm a good mom" Crazy but true. I was so worried about it. So, if you saw me out, you would probably write me off as non-AP. So, as a former, outwordly non AP person, who was inwardly AP, don't be too quick to judge mommies. You never know what their situation is, and until you see them interact with their little ones, what kind of mom they are. And even then, I hope its not on "one of those days"!!! I can be quick to judge and I think my experiences made me realize that there is often more what you see. So I am much more careful about thinking things too quickly.

I think meeting moms at a LLL meeting or something like that, you can be pretty sure about them. Especially if they are there past the six month mark. I think it is easier to pick out the definetly not AP people in the crowd!!


----------



## barbara (Feb 13, 2002)

I do tend to seeek out friendships with others that appear to be like minded. I've found, however, that so often people are growing in their parenting styles and someone with a desire to learn and grow, and be the best they can, makes a wonderful friend. It is stubborness and closemindedness that seems to make me walk the other way.

-b


----------



## meister31 (May 21, 2002)

It's soooo hard to judge a parent by her 'cover'. It's important to remember that appearance and accessories dont make a good parent.


----------



## laurajean (Nov 19, 2001)

lara,

Good question! For me, it is definitely the way that a parent relates to his/her child. I have converted a few mainstream, gentle parents to aspects of AP. And forged friendships.

In fact, I have found that there are AP families that I thought I could relate to. But, in the end, we had little in common. Due to the fact that I was an Early Childhood Educator before I became a parent, I know how important it is to set age appropriate limits with children. (I saw the effects - in my classroom - on children who did not have reasonable and consistent limits and it wasn't pretty!) Some parents choose not to do so and usually my child gets the "short end of the stick" if you know what I mean.

When I first had my son, I was very judgemental - I thought all parents should see the AP light. Now, I am more accepting. It's been a journey.

~Laura


----------



## laurajean (Nov 19, 2001)

Did I kill another thread????

~Laura


----------



## JesseMomme (Apr 6, 2002)

d


----------



## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

I have not read the whole thread, but I "know it whenI see it", is all I can say.

I guess after all of my life I have developed a sixth sense about it.

I also do not ever discuss bf, hb, hs, AP, w/ anyone until I know them. I work in a private school where all of the teachers are very judgemental of how all of the children are raised and of how all of the parents behave. I do my job. I am paid to be there and be a teacher. As long as no one gets in my way of doing my own thing in my own family, I let it be.

I like the people where I work, and I have worked in lots of awful places that are awful for a whole assortment of reasons. I just know now how to pick my battles.

Arguing here or getting labeled here is not one of my battles.


----------



## ebethmom (Jan 29, 2002)

> _Originally posted by momatheart23_
> *I have to say that for me it is about respect, and that is all. There is no other tried and true indicator other than they respect their child.
> 
> I absolutely agree with this statement. Even before I was a Mom, I noticed how people treated their children. As a Suzuki teacher, I was able to coach parents on gentle ways to bring out the best in their child. Respect is everything!
> ...


----------



## sleepies (Nov 30, 2001)

seems everyone around me spanks their kid.

i hate that.

i really hate it when they tell me i should spank my kid.

what can i say without being offensive?

i usually avoid the topic.

ACK


----------



## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

Sleepies, here's my advice on what you can say without putting them on the defensive:

"In our family, we have found that discipline without physical punishment works best."

Then CHANGE the subject!

Although i must say that although I have friends with a variety of parenting styles, I'd have a hard time finding too much in common with someone who was a spanker. It's just a totally different perspective on the parent-child relationship.


----------



## MommyT (Feb 19, 2003)

I 'look' like a mainstream mom on the surface although my son never has a paci and I wear him wherever I go. I 'look' like the type of person who is well-rested and too 'put together' to be a bf-ing, AP practicing mom. I have been TOLD this by people who are surprised how non-mainstream I am. Maybe it's my clothes, my hair, my make up or just the fact that I'm extremely happy with how we're raising my son and I project that....even though it doesn't fit into the adult 'convenience' lifestyle. If I had a dollar for everytime someone told me bf-ing or AP wasn't 'convenient' for them, my son would have tuition for Harvard!







:

I strongly believe in natural childbirth, bf-ing, not vaccinating, AP and organic eating. I find that my family and I click with other like-minded parents.

I usually look for bf-ing as an indicator that I may be on the same track with another mom, but this isn't ALWAYS the case...just most of the time. I find a lot of moms in my LLL group that I 'click' with. These are the same moms that also strongly believe in natural childbirth, no vaccinations, AP and good nutrition.... and it's nice to know we are all on the same educational level when it comes to what 'we' consider the best for our babies. Natural childbirth just means that this mom won't look at me like I'm from some different planet where I enjoy a side of sadism with my dinner. I really hate that look. I don't tell people I had a natural birth, or that I plan on having my next baby at home.....but when they ask: 'Didn't you just LOVE the epi?' I just can't bite my tongue, smile and nod and say 'sure.' This always opens up a big can of worms.

I surround myself with people whose beliefs run along with mine, however I don't exclude anyone immediately just because they don't bf or practice AP...I just find that after a while, we just don't have anything in common.


----------



## Bladestar5 (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:

Natural childbirth just means that this mom won't look at me like I'm from some different planet where I enjoy a side of sadism with my dinner. I really hate that look. I don't tell people I had a natural birth, or that I plan on having my next baby at home.....but when they ask: 'Didn't you just LOVE the epi?' I just can't bite my tongue, smile and nod and say 'sure.' This always opens up a big can of worms.
I experienced both "drugged" (intrathecal, demerol, induction) and natural childbirth, and I thought the natural was much better than the drugged one!! It was the most incredible and self-revealing experience of my life. What a rush!!


----------



## jannan (Oct 30, 2002)

we are all on the same team.
we are all mothers and women. this is why i wont go to an ap meeting.


----------



## chapulina (Feb 18, 2003)

I am a dedicated AP mom who does both bfing and formula; the fact that someone would write me off as an AP mom because of a bottle is offensive. You don't know the composition of the liquid in the bottle (in our case, part breastmilk and part formula).

I don't endorse formula as the optimal form of nutrition for a baby, but I am greatful that it is an option for the few unusual cases where bfing exclusively was enough.

In our case, I exhausted every resource to continue using only breastmilk; LLL, personal friends who were exclusively bfing, a lactation consultant, never scheduled feeding (nursed her about every 30" in the first 2 months), co-slept (still doing that), pumped every night for 4 months to keep up my milk,

DD still nursing at 13 months


----------



## MommyT (Feb 19, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bladestar5_
*It was the most incredible and self-revealing experience of my life. What a rush!!*
Yes!!!!! EXACTLY!


----------



## galadriel (Jan 21, 2003)

I really, passionately hate rampant consumerism (big, shiny new accoutrements) and I have a hard time not being judgemental about it. Commercialism just plain turns me off, what can I say. It doesn't have anything to do with AP but AP is not enough for me; I need crunchiness, too. It may be wrong, but that's the truth. I'm a new first-time mom, so maybe I'll have totally changed my tune in 5 years. I seriously doubt it, though.

I don't have many friends, but I don't think it has to do with being judgemental; who a person is in their soul has very little to do with their behavior at any given moment, as everybody is on their own path moving at their own speed. I think it has to do with being insecure. Having a baby is already forcing me to change that, though; it demands confidence. I am interested in people who are thoughtful, period-- people who are mature and in touch with their emotions and have examined their choices. This usually equates with gentle parenting and having gone through a lot of personal growth, or else they're headed in that direction.

You could say it comes down to values. I think you have to have a critical mass of shared values for any successful relationship. Some of my values are simple living, reducing, reusing, and recycling, do-it-yourself when possible, think about the consequences of your actions, question authority, self-improvement, and moderation in most everything. Except loads of commercial, shiny new plastic crap. (Sorry, I'm not quite enlightened yet.)







So anyway, when I meet people, it's impossible for me not to look for evidence of similar values. That's how communities are made!


----------



## carmen veranda (Jan 27, 2003)

Wow!! I would have even fewer friends than I do now, if I was friends only with people who parent (ed) like me. There are just so many people in this town. Most of my friends think I am a weirdo and yet respect me and I respect them. Even if folks don't "AP", it doesn't mean they don't love their kids. And it doesn't mean they don't have anything to offer to me as a friend, or that I don't have anything to offer to them as a friend.
I have 3 dd's. Aged 17ys to almost 3. I bf'ed the first for 22 months, she started biting, then I weaned her. I was the only person I knew to ever nurse that long. I nursed dd now 8 for only 4 months. We never did get it right. Many people I work with (at a hospital) thought 4 months was a very reasonable time to nurse. I was heart broken and not many understood this. I am still nursing dd, almost 3, and I am very weird. I know very very few who has bf'ed this long (one). Even the bf'ing consultants here want to have me come to the bf'ing class as an example.
I wish I knew more mamma's like me. I have never really fit in. I am divorced. I have had kids with a man I was never married to. I woh full time. My kids go to day care full time where they wore disposable diapers. My middle daughter drank juice all the time. We don't have a TV. We eat mostly organic food at home,but when my teenager cooks, we have hamburger helper and the younger two eat whatever at day care. I worked for a home birth with my last two and ended up induced with one, and emergent c sec with a intubated baby with the last!! But I would never NOT want to be friends with someone because they were not "like" me. I have made friends with mamma's who have been to jail, (met her at the shelter where we were voluntering) mamma's who have had their kids taken away for abuse (met her at a divorced parents support group), as well as my funky midwife pal (whose marriage is no longer sustaining her), my sah two mom one kid still bf'ing at age 5 family, their relatives who home school and sah too, and so on. Each one of these mamma's and kids have enriched my life, I hope we have enriched theirs.
I don't know what my point is except I wish I had never read this thread. I could cry to think that some of these wonderful mamma's here would see me taking my kids to the drive through at Hamburger King so we could make it to soccer practice cause I am the coach and we can't be late, and I just got off work cause I do it all alone, and have them look at me with judgment and not want to be my friend. Both our losses, I guess.
I wish we were all on the same team.


----------



## Jish (Dec 12, 2001)

If fast food makes one a bad mom, my kids would have been taken from me long ago.:LOL We eat fast food at least one or two times a week, simply because I'M an addict. I've got to have those McDonalds frys.









CV, I'm like you. Most of my friends aren't necessarily AP. Some spank, buy lunchables for convience, and enjoy leaving their kids with others so that they can have some time to themselves. None of these make them worse parents in my eyes, simply because I KNOW them and know how much they love their children, and how they treat them. Yes, if I find out that someone I met spanks, I form an instant opinion about them, but then I have to remind myself that some of my best friends pull spanking out of that discipline bag at times, and they are wonderful parents. I still choose not to spank, and no one will ever convince me that it is the right way to discipline, but heck, many people criticize me for spoiling my kids by not spanking them or using a time out chair. I of course think that I am doing what is best for my kids, and I try to educate where I can about AP and gentle discipline, but I don't base my friendships on whether someone follows the exact same list of guidelines that I do. I love that we have the right to disagree and form our own opinions.

We are all mothers. We all need support. Let's support each other.


----------



## guestmama9924 (Mar 16, 2002)

Well, for me, if they are carrying a big ( insert activist cause here) sign, a copy of Mothering, and can easily get off on a rant about just about anything, then I have found my tribe








I run from mamas with too much bling bling, overly-dressed kids, and koolaid in a bottle....


----------



## Alstrameria (Sep 8, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by jbcjmom_
*We are all mothers. We all need support. Let's support each other.







*
Well said jbcjmom. Even mums who don't make the same choices I do sometimes need a kind word or a hand up; I know I do from time to time.

I don't like violence, sweeping generalizations or ignorant judgements, but the only thing I look for is an effort to be a gentle force on the planet.

Until I am perfect, I cannot judge. I also prefer the term "intuitive parenting"; I find it's a more accurate label for the method of parenting dh and I choose, and describes what I think is really important.
Anyone can be in my club! Yes, even if you have a pacifier, use an exersaucer or stroller, or can't/didn't bf.

Jen


----------



## LunaMom (Aug 8, 2002)

I call it "mindful parenting." As long as you put some thought into doing what you feel is best for your children, and treat them kindly, that's mindful enough for me. I could care less about the other stuff - and I'm starting to see why some people are a bit put off by this thread (though I'm sure the OP meant no harm!).


----------



## MommyT (Feb 19, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by jannan_
*we are all on the same team.
we are all mothers and women. this is why i wont go to an ap meeting.*
We are all mothers and women, but we are in so many different ways, which unfortunately puts us on a different 'team' so to speak. When I'm responding to my son's cues and another mother interjects and says "You're spoiling him, you should just let him cry." That's NOT on my same team or even in the same hemisphere as me. When a mom says, "you're baby is thin, you should supplement with formula." (my son is lean and in the 70th percentile in weight, which is natural and healthy for the average bf-ed baby) Once again, NOT on the same team. When I get strange looks and comments from these mothers who are scoffing at me STILL breastfeeding (mind you, my son is only 10 months old), once again, NOT on my team. When a mom asks me if my son is sleeping through the night and then proceeds to tell me how to CIO....yup! You guessed it, NOT on the same team.

A teammate is supportive. A teammate has the same goals as you and uses the same means to achieve those goals, changing them to suit their own strengths and circumstances as needed, but adhering to the same principles, beliefs and moral 'code.'

So when my AP methods look appear to another mother like I'm being a sucker whose letting my child walk all over me and 'use' my body as a 'feeder.' just because we share the same gender and have the ability to birth (or be delivered of) our babies, does not qualify us as being on the same team.









I've never been to an AP meeting, but I do regularly attend LLL meetings. These women all practice AP, so maybe that counts as an AP meeting. These women are caring, thoughtful, sensitive parents who have incredibly connected children. These are the same children I am looking forward to my son to play with and get to know because they have been raised with the same value system as I've been raising him with. I appreciate these 'AP meeting' people and am so glad they are having children because the world needs more of these kind of people.

These are the kind of 'teamates' I really want to have in my 'cheering' section and on my 'team!'


----------



## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

Great post, MommyT!

I think people are missing the point. I want to find moms who parent like I do for *exactly* the reasons you mentioned above. I want someone who will be supportive of me bfing, cloth diapering, part time ECing, cosleeping, nonvaxing, etc. etc. etc. I spent too many years with people criticizing me for the way I raised ds, and with the girls, I am looking for supportive friends. I want to send up the signal to moms like me that I parent this way so they'll recognize me even though I don't always appear "ap" with my stroller full of twins with pacies attached.

Nowhere in this thread is anyone suggesting that you should be unsupportive to a mom that doesn't parent like you do. The title of the thread isn't 'How do I avoid moms that aren't on "our team"?' But I am not going to apologize for seeking out like minded moms, not so we can sit around and bash the rest, but so we can support each other when the majority of moms I meet think I am crazy.


----------



## glh (Nov 19, 2001)

I do understand Laralou and it gets harder in some ways once they get older. I mean I am still bf my 2 yr old, but she doesn't need to in public, she's not in a sling anymore and I don't wear nursing shirts anymore, so that means any of those clues are gone.


----------



## galadriel (Jan 21, 2003)

Laralou--sounds good to me!! I think we are "all on the same team" as women, as mothers, what have you-- just like humans are all "on the same team", ultimately. But, of course we have subgroups, "tribes" or whatever (I'm no sociologist). I think most all groups have signals within their community-- black folks, gay folks, mormon folks, etc. etc.-- so I think the original post is a very valid question.

Statistically, I think if you're pretty crunchy insofar as you bf, cd, cosleep, EC, don't vax, etc., that it's less likely (but obviously not certain, or non-AP of you) that you would use pacifiers or rely a lot on strollers? Sooo, if you don't fit a certain set of super-crunchy criteria, I guess you just have to get off your duff and talk to people!!! Which we should all do anyway. Assumptions are of very limited use, huh.


----------



## lisawhip (Jan 30, 2003)

I'm not sure why this is, but I've found that if a baby is wearing Robeez shoes, I have a good chance of having a whole lot in common with regard to parenting with his/her mom.

But that's not to say that if I see a kid with another brand of shoe--or no shoes--I assume I don't have anything in common. It's just something I've noticed.


----------



## Justice2 (Mar 18, 2003)

I am not the typical AP mother. I don't bf, I don't co-sleep. I use a paci (my son has an incredible urge to suck and will actually cry if he doesn't have his paci handy). I use a stoller (an buying a sling Friday Yeahhhhhh!) sometimes when I know that the outing will be an extremely long one that requires a lot of walking. I have ordered cloth diaps, but am using sposies until they come in. I don't spank my dd often, but we do have "spanking offenses" in our house (and only a very rare occasion to use them, maybe three times in her eight years of life). I speak to my children with respect, as I would an adult. I encourage my dd to give her opinions. I tried the whole CIO method and simply put, it wasn't for me or dh. I don't look down on mothers who think that bfing is the only way to feed their children. I think it's great that they feel that way. I don't look down on women who co-sleep, although a great fear keeps me from doing so (dh was just telline me the other day that he can't wait until ds is big enough to sleep with us). I don't look down on women who refuse to use a stoller or plastic toys. I don't look down on women who punish their children in public. (short of beating their children in public - I would have a problem with that) and I would hope that those women don't look down on me. I LOVE my children, I think that is what should qualify as the biggest value. My children (well, ds is only 8 weeks old so...) are very adjusted (and incredibly attached, considering we probably aren't the poster family for AP parenting lol!). I would welcome most other mothers as friends because at the bottom of it all, we are still mothers. Our children will still grow up with one another. And most of all, I don't consider someone who lets their child CIO or who spanks regularly a mother who loves her children ANY LESS than I love mine. And I don't consider a mother who is AP all the way a mother who loves her children ANY MORE than I love mine. I think that is the thread that binds us. We all Love these miracles that we have.


----------



## Alstrameria (Sep 8, 2002)

Justice2, I see where you're going with this and even just in the last few weeks I've tried to broaden my views. I agree it would be a boring place if we were all the same.

I could not even begin to speak to whether one mother loves her children more than another. I have no way of knowing such an ethereal thing.

That said there are a few (very few) things I cannot abide, and would not choose to enter into a friendship or a group of any kind with parents who practice them. If I'm there by virtue of my gender or having birthed a child, well, to me that doesn't have a lot of meaning because it wasn't concious. I don't feel a bond with mothers the world over.

There is undoubtedly someone out there who would feel the same about me. S'ok.

Jen


----------



## pamelamama (Dec 12, 2002)

Well duh, you are all missing the most obvious way of finding like-minded mama pals...

the secret AP handshake!

geez, what would you all do without me?









xoox pam


----------



## pahkahsmom (Apr 2, 2003)

hmmm. very intrigued by all the discussion on "the same team" and bf and ap etc. etc... i can relate to the idea of finding "kindred souls" so to speak- women and families who share similar values, beliefs and lifestyles- afterall, how comfortable would we be with our ideas, if we didn't have someone backing them up?

but, my other thoughts are this... i work with lots of moms (good moms and moms that are working really hard) who for lots of different reasons don't bf, ap, cosleep, etc. And for these women, the very last thing they need is judgement and avoidance for guiding a bottle, instead of a breast to their young child, or pushing a stroller instead of wearing a sling-- many, if not all, are trying very hard to simply be safe, let alone worry about breastfeeing vs. formula. "These women" are women you see on the street, in the grocery store, and at the park. They are your neighbors, your co-workers and your child's friends mom.

I think we can all recognize how hard it is sometimes to simply be a mom. I would challenge that we attempt to break down the "us and them" and encourage mutual support and respect. How better a way to encourage bf, ap, co-sleeping, etc., than through friendship and education? Share stories, thoughts, literature and kindness, not judgement and critical value-calls based on superficial outward apperances.

thanks everyone for sharing their thoughts and ideas!


----------



## pahkahsmom (Apr 2, 2003)

i wrote my last post and went to bed, but couldn't sleep without finishing my thoughts, so here goes...

lots of people get paid lots of money to make sure that the general public remains under-educated about lots of things (including the dangers of vaccinating, the benefits of co-sleeping, breastfeeding, non-violent parenting, etc...) how lucky "we" are to have found what is considered "alternative" parenting by the masses. But i ask two questions...

1. how did we get to where we our in our beliefes about bf, co-sleeping, ap, non-violent parenting, etc...?? I know for me, it would not (and did not) come from family. In fact, they often discourage us from not medicating and vaccinating and "punishing"... but rather, my knowledge came from other women who "took me in", who supported my right to choose how i raised my child and who encouraged and continue to encourage me in a world that thinks i'm "crunchy" and "alternative". and,

2. thinking about all of the things that you subscribe to (bf, extended bf, co-sleeping, non-vaccinating or delayed vacc., non-violent parenting, sling-wearing, etc. etc.) ask yourself why?
Why do you choose to do all of the things that you do?
I will share that i our family does many of those things becuase we love and care for our dd, want her to grow and flourish in a really crazy world, want to create safe and happy learning and growing environments and get a kick out of challenging those in power. So, are there lots of ways to show your kids that you love them, encourage them to grow and flourish, and create safe spaces? (the challenging authority thing is my own deal







) Yes, i believe there are, and i have seen them happen.

so, i guess my whole point in all of this stuff is just to challenge all of us to challege ourselves. respect each other. tolerate what you will- and i am certinley not asking you to tolerate everything, even i have my limits- but stretch your comfort zone. i have learned alot this way.


----------

