# GD and food waste/extreme pickiness



## msmiranda (Apr 22, 2009)

I don't know if this is the right forum for this, but ... my 3yo is a picky eater beyond belief. It's possible that we caved in to it too much in the past, but it has basically gotten to the point where he eats the following: ww bread, ww tortillas, cheese, ww pasta (only with alfredo sauce my DH makes from scratch, no tomato sauce, sometimes will eat macaroni & cheese), and fruit -- grapes, bananas, apples, strawberries, blueberries, pears, and kiwi. He knows what other foods are because he sees us eat them and sees his baby brother eat them, so he'll say "that's broccoli. I don't like broccoli." and the same for every other food you can imagine. He will not try anything else, puts his hand over his mouth. Oh, I forgot bacon -- that's a new one, and I think he stopped eating chicken at about the time he decided he liked bacon (which he hardly ever gets because we don't eat it very much, occasionally on the weekend with breakfast). And he will eat pizza (but that falls under cheese and bread) and french fries, which are a rare treat or when we are traveling -- but he will not eat potatoes otherwise. Another recent addition is pb&j. He also drinks milk.

I'm of two minds about the situation. One is that I don't want to make food into a power struggle. I do not bring junk food into the house, so while his diet is not ideal, it's marginally acceptable and a sight better than what a lot of kids get. We do not do any type of juice or sweetened drinks at all, no cookies, no candy (except Halloween and other special occasions), no potato chips ... or I guess I should say very, very rarely. I kinda feel like he's the one who is missing out and that food is wonderful and should be its own reward, and that if we keep humoring him and setting a good example, he will come around.

The other mind is annoyed. I was not a picky eater as a child at all -- like everyone, I had a few things I didn't like, but for the most part I ate what was put in front of me. I would like to start doing real family meals, and so I've toyed with the idea of throwing down the gauntlet and saying you eat what we serve or don't eat (and offering something plain like toast as the standing alternative).

But part of me thinks -- especially given that his brother eats pretty much anything put in front of him, which my older son never did -- that picky eating is born more than made and I should just put up with it. And, throwing down the gauntlet would mean even more food waste than we have now (which is considerable as the boy refuses to eat bread crust), and wasting food makes me insane both from a financial perspective and a moral one.

Sorry to go on and on ... the short question is, what does GD have to say about food?


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## MamieCole (Jun 1, 2007)

I have a similar situation with my 4 year old.


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## lilith1 (Dec 5, 2008)

DS1 (2) just turned from eating whatever is in front of him into a picky eater. Standing alternative is butter sandwich which I know he likes. On days he is refusing that I know he either isn''t hungry or testing his boundaries. The original plate I save and offer with the next meal, if applicable.
I do ponder on how to cut down on waste. I also refuse to be a short order cook for him. I keep trying to offer what we eat, modify for a toddler's taste buds who keep changing anyway.

I'm interested in other responses.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I can tell you what I think GD is...and then I can tell you what I do. ;-)

I think GD would be the parent leading on finding ways to help your DC eat as best as she/he can. There's lots written on this. Things like introducing the same food frequently, providing dips and etc. All kinds of things! I've read them all at one point or another. I do think my actions contribute to the lack of variety of foods that she eats but the job of changing my basic feelings about food and DC's inclinations about food is too much for me.

In the end, I do what you do. I just make the healthiest food for DC that I can get her to eat and don't stress. I let her pick the portions and often finish her food.


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

First of all, that is a decent list of healthy foods your ds eats. It looks like a nutritionally complete diet to me. I see no reason to battle food with him when he is eating a healthy diet.

Second, it looks like he is adding new foods, but slowly. Focus on the positive: he is adding foods! He will continue to add more.

Third, I read that it can take up to 30 exposures for a child to try a new food. I found this to be true with my dd (my ds tries everything the first time!), but I didn't think of her as a picky eater. I kept telling her she was an adventurous eater, lol, even when she was giving my casserole the hairy eyeball.

I think it is important to avoid serving the child a separate meal, reinforcing that some food is for them, and some food is for others. When dd was this age, I would put some of her favorite healthy foods on the table for every meal: small plates of cut cheese, cut tomatoes, grapes, and a small bowl of yogurt, for example. Those small plates would be set out along with the casserole and salad I made for Dh and I. Everything is served family-style (food in the middle of the table, each person choosing what they want and how much). Negative comments on the food, or what others are or are not eating, are not allowed. We will sometimes point out "You only had pasta. How about choosing a fruit or veggie next?" to open up conversations about food groups and nutrition.

I do this at lunch, as well, on a smaller scale. I'll serve a "platter" for me and the child, loaded with small amts of many healthy things--some of their favorites, and some things new. Let the child choose what to take from the platter.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 
When dd was this age, I would put some of her favorite healthy foods on the table for every meal: small plates of cut cheese, cut tomatoes, grapes, and a small bowl of yogurt, for example. Those small plates would be set out along with the casserole and salad I made for Dh and I. Everything is served family-style (food in the middle of the table, each person choosing what they want and how much). Negative comments on the food, or what others are or are not eating, are not allowed. We will sometimes point out "You only had pasta. How about choosing a fruit or veggie next?" to open up conversations about food groups and nutrition.


Very nice solution, I think!! Still one that's too complicated for my life...we're grazers and DH and I even eat different foods...oy. But I LOVE the idea!!


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## just_lily (Feb 29, 2008)

We do something similiar to sunnmama, other than the fact that I plate foods in the kitchen (can't be bothered with serving dishes unless we are having company). I have a fairly picky kid, so I always make sure to put a couple of things on her plate that I know she will eat - fruit, cheese, crackers or bread, certain veggies. And then I also give her a very small amount of what we are having if I don't expect her to dive in.

I got some advice a while back that if you load up a kid's plate they find it very overwhelming. If you give them a huge plate of some casserole they have never had they will automatically think they can't and won't eat it. But if you give them just one or two bites of the new food, along with some familiar foods, they are more inclined to try it... or at least think about trying it. This also has the benefit of cutting down on food waste if they decide not to touch it.


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## NellieKatz (Jun 19, 2009)

My DS is 7 and is the same way right now. It seems like he's gotten pickier over the years....he seems entrenched in his beliefs. It gets very frustrating. But then I realize that he really does get an overall good diet....he likes plain hummus and organic corn chips or flour tortillas, he likes ww pb&j, or pb & honey, so that's good. He likes lots of cereals and unfortunately (in my newly vegan opinion) turkey hotdogs and grass fed hamburg, I'm blessed that he loves broccoli (because I make it SOOOOO good and yummy....I'd be happy to tell you how). He likes apples with peanut butter or apples and cheese, drinks orange juice once in a while and loves yogurts and soy milk and organic cow milk. He likes rice and black beans and corn. (reading this, I now wonder why I call him picky.....oh that's right. nothing "mixed" -- no soups, no deli sandwiches, no tacos, no casseroles...there's no chance for me to puree and "hide" anything because he likes all his ingredients separate and identifiable....LOL....he would live on mac & cheese if he could) Oh and he likes sweet potatoes and regular potatoes and likes fruit and once in a while eats carrot sticks....hey what's my problem. My kid isn't really that picky! Hmm....thanks for giving me the opportunity to see this....

Bottom line is that he doesn't need to eat a whole "balanced" range of foods at every meal. If your child is eating healthy things over a period of a week or whatever, it really is fine.

My experience has been that the bigger a deal I make, the more he will dig in his heels about something. Kids don't have control over that much of their lives, so it makes sense that they want to control this, I think.

That being said, I do insist that he "eat a balance" at meals if he wants dessert afterward....not finishing all his stuff but at least having a BITE of all the reasonable things I've put out. In other words, I know he likes broccoli and rice and fish sticks. If he snarfs his fish sticks, ignoring the rest, and thinks he's getting cookies for dessert, he is wrong. He must eat at least one bite of rice and broccoli too. He likes them so I'm not forcing him to eat something horrid. I just won't let him get into the habit of skating through dinner and going straight to dessert. His body needs to see good things come through the door on a regular basis. 

Oh, and Just Lily, we don't use serving dishes either, but we don't "plate in the kitchen" as you say. We drag the pans to the table and put them on trivets. Probably uncivilized in the eyes of some, but it beats running back and forth to the kitchen to get second helpings.


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## freestylemama (Apr 8, 2009)

Not allowing negative comments about food is huge. My kid is a really good eater and we've been pretty adamant that she try things, so I really don't have advice about how to get him to eat other things, but I think not talking badly about what is served helps kids have a more positive attitude.

Does he like to help you cook? My daughter has been making our smoothies since she was a young toddler. She puts in the fruits and veggies and presses "on". It's very exciting for her to help and she sees veggies and fruits in a good light because she helps. We also go to farmers markets and I buy any veggies she wants. The other day she put everything in the food processor for pesto and was very proud of "her" creation.

Her former daycare teacher was a genius and did this great thing where she would ask the kids to be quiet and then listen to the sounds their foods made when they ate them. 12 2 year olds would chomp on green peppers or celery or carrots. Sometimes if she doesn't want to eat a crunchy veggie we'll ask her how it sounds and it works really well.


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## Mosaic (Jun 20, 2005)

I dunno. I used to think pickiness was just a phase. Then I went to a specialist who knows way more about this and has decades of experience showing that in some cases, it's not just a phase but a very challenging issue that needs to be addressed early and aggresively. I think all kids go through times where they won't eat certain things or are reluctant to try new things; but when it continues, and if you feel your feeding your LO things that are not nutritious or balanced, it doesn't hurt to get some outside help. In some cases, it's an oral aversion or some other kind of issue that requires help to work through.

I'd trust your momma gut on this. If it seems like it's just a kid thing, I wouldn't worry. If you're concerned about the patterns that are developing, seeking out a specialist wouldn't hurt.


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## catters (Nov 20, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnmama* 

I think it is important to avoid serving the child a separate meal, reinforcing that some food is for them, and some food is for others. When dd was this age, I would put some of her favorite healthy foods on the table for every meal: small plates of cut cheese, cut tomatoes, grapes, and a small bowl of yogurt, for example. Those small plates would be set out along with the casserole and salad I made for Dh and I. Everything is served family-style (food in the middle of the table, each person choosing what they want and how much). Negative comments on the food, or what others are or are not eating, are not allowed. We will sometimes point out "You only had pasta. How about choosing a fruit or veggie next?" to open up conversations about food groups and nutrition.


Struggling with a picky eating three year old here!









This is an awesome idea. And while I do not ever make "special" meals for the kids, as I don't want to start down that slippery slope (watching this occur with my nephew and nieces made it CLEAR to me that I shouldn't do that, yikes! My poor SIL) anyway... I offer whatever we are eating. The only time I make something special is if what we are cooking is a might too spicy or exotic, so I usually pare down the ingredients for their food. I do tend to be pretty hard core with the notion that he'll eat what we're eating or he'll have to wait until breakfast... Which, of course, is hard, as I obviously want my child to eat! I like the idea of putting everything out family style, including things that he'll like, but not make it "special". I do tend to fix my children's plates for them prior to sitting at the table, and I really do think I need to stop doing this ASAP! I can clearly remember a few months back my son simply popping one after another of brussel sprouts straight from the serving bowl because my husband and I were doing this and they were SOO good and he just started eating them too. Augh! Why don't I learn from these things more!? LOL


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Sunmama's idea also reminds me of this great book, "French Cooking in 15 Minutes". It's a great book!! Lots of the ideas involved cooking just one item and the rest is things like a simple salad, cut carrots, olives, bread, anchovies, butter and other interesting things. When we used to eat together (we've been way off track as I said) I used to do a lot of that.


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## jake&zaxmom (May 12, 2004)

NellieKatz, PLEASE tell us how you make broccoli!!


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## sunnmama (Jul 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *catters* 
I can clearly remember a few months back my son simply popping one after another of brussel sprouts straight from the serving bowl because my husband and I were doing this and they were SOO good and he just started eating them too.

Yes! My 3 yo does this, too. The other day, he ignored the roasted okra on his plate that I carefully cut and cooled for him, but ate it by the fistful off the serving dish









And I am another one who frequently plops the whole cooking pot on the table, instead of always using a serving dish....

Quote:


Originally Posted by *IdentityCrisisMama* 
Sunmama's idea also reminds me of this great book, "French Cooking in 15 Minutes". It's a great book!! Lots of the ideas involved cooking just one item and the rest is things like a simple salad, cut carrots, olives, bread, anchovies, butter and other interesting things. When we used to eat together (we've been way off track as I said) I used to do a lot of that.

Interesting, because I was hugely influenced by my MIL to serve meals this way. She's Greek, and her tables always look like that. She always has olives, bread, cut veggies (tomatoes and cucumbers), cheese, and spreads like tzaziki and taramosalata on the table







I love it! Maybe it is a Mediterranean thing?


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## NellieKatz (Jun 19, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jake&zaxmom* 
NellieKatz, PLEASE tell us how you make broccoli!!









That made me smile.

Here's what we do: Frozen broccoli florets from Trader Joes, and the 3-pepper frozen "Melange a Trois" mix from Trader Joes. Ok, and a cube of Dorot frozen crushed garlic from Trader Joes. Oh and their olive oil too (organic extra virgin). Tee hee. I guess it's all TJs! Easy to make.

We sautee the ingredients together in the olive oil until the broccoli is very soft. Oh one more ingredient you can't get at TJs, and this is awesome and my son insists on it on all his veggies, and his rice and his potatoes too (we all do): Bragg's Liquid Aminos. Sounds odd as heck, but it's just sort of a soy sauce-like product that doesn't taste Asian. Google it. Once you try Bragg's you will never want to use salt again and won't know how you lived without it.

Available in Whole Foods , (sadly NOT Trader Joe's), natural food stores, and regular stores like Stop & Shop. I know Big Y doesnt have it though.

Good luck!


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## Essie (Oct 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *msmiranda* 
I don't know if this is the right forum for this, but ... my 3yo is a picky eater beyond belief. It's possible that we caved in to it too much in the past, but it has basically gotten to the point where he eats the following: ww bread, ww tortillas, cheese, ww pasta (only with alfredo sauce my DH makes from scratch, no tomato sauce, sometimes will eat macaroni & cheese), and fruit -- grapes, bananas, apples, strawberries, blueberries, pears, and kiwi. He knows what other foods are because he sees us eat them and sees his baby brother eat them, so he'll say "that's broccoli. I don't like broccoli." and the same for every other food you can imagine. He will not try anything else, puts his hand over his mouth. Oh, I forgot bacon -- that's a new one, and I think he stopped eating chicken at about the time he decided he liked bacon (which he hardly ever gets because we don't eat it very much, occasionally on the weekend with breakfast). And he will eat pizza (but that falls under cheese and bread) and french fries, which are a rare treat or when we are traveling -- but he will not eat potatoes otherwise. Another recent addition is pb&j. He also drinks milk.

I'm of two minds about the situation. One is that I don't want to make food into a power struggle. I do not bring junk food into the house, so while his diet is not ideal, it's marginally acceptable and a sight better than what a lot of kids get. We do not do any type of juice or sweetened drinks at all, no cookies, no candy (except Halloween and other special occasions), no potato chips ... or I guess I should say very, very rarely. I kinda feel like he's the one who is missing out and that food is wonderful and should be its own reward, and that if we keep humoring him and setting a good example, he will come around.

The other mind is annoyed. I was not a picky eater as a child at all -- like everyone, I had a few things I didn't like, but for the most part I ate what was put in front of me. I would like to start doing real family meals, and so I've toyed with the idea of throwing down the gauntlet and saying you eat what we serve or don't eat (and offering something plain like toast as the standing alternative).

But part of me thinks -- especially given that his brother eats pretty much anything put in front of him, which my older son never did -- that picky eating is born more than made and I should just put up with it. And, throwing down the gauntlet would mean even more food waste than we have now (which is considerable as the boy refuses to eat bread crust), and wasting food makes me insane both from a financial perspective and a moral one.

Sorry to go on and on ... the short question is, what does GD have to say about food?

Omg---this sounds much like our house but we just have DS. He would EVERYTHING when he just started eating solid foods. Then slowly he started rejecting foods and got really picky. Part of it for him was sensory b/c he was repulsed by certain smells of foods. Now, slowly he is trying new things and eating more things and actually says to us that he will try something. He's 8 now and I think 5-6 was when he was most picky.

I would say----I hear you! don't give up b/c he could always change. You never know. I know how annoying it is because personally I am annoyed at adults who are really picky eaters and I hate wasting food just like you. If there's any way you can not let him see that you are annoyed that's good, but I know it's really tough. I always said I would never make different stuff for everyone, but I've kind of wussed out. NOt too much, but when we have stir fry I make ds whole wheat spaghetti for his and rice for us.

Also, I've heard that a good approach is to say "just take 1 bite and try it. If you don't like it you don't have to eat it" You know how if we keep trying things over time that we don't like then eventually we may develop a liking?

I think picky eaters evolve from never "trying" new things, so maybe if you take that road things will improve.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

My daughter was a fantastic eater until she turned three. Then she hit a wall.

We do something along the lines of the Ellyn Satter method. We choose what and when, she chooses whether and how much. She gets a multi-vitamin and DHA. I prepare a wide variety of dinners and we have predictable breakfasts and lunches. The only snacks available from me are fruits.

We don't ask her to try anything, but we do talk it up, and no, she's not allowed to say anything bad about the food. She can say she doesn't like it (though we are teaching her the more diplomatic, "No, thank you") but not, "It's disgusting" because that is rude to the rest of us at the table.

As for bread crusts, my first goes in and out of it, so finally I just started saving them and giving them to her little sister for snacks. LOL That might not work for you. But I also freeze them and we feed them to the ducks some days.

This summer I made popsicles and I'm thinking of doing it again. Basically, I make a smoothie however I'd make it, and then I freeze it in the shape of popsicles. Kids love popsicles. So that's always a big win in terms of nutrition, though massively expensive.

We don't waste because they can't play with food, so if they don't eat it, we put it back in the dish for leftovers. Maybe that's gross but yes we are just about that poor.


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## Essie (Oct 9, 2004)

I think another thing we often tell our son is that we do NOT waste food and that it's reaally iportant. We say that's why mom and dad go to work, b/c that is how we get $ and you need to actually PAY for food. Hopefully this is sinking in slowly.


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## msmiranda (Apr 22, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
My daughter was a fantastic eater until she turned three. Then she hit a wall.

We do something along the lines of the Ellyn Satter method. We choose what and when, she chooses whether and how much. She gets a multi-vitamin and DHA. I prepare a wide variety of dinners and we have predictable breakfasts and lunches. The only snacks available from me are fruits.

We don't ask her to try anything, but we do talk it up, and no, she's not allowed to say anything bad about the food. She can say she doesn't like it (though we are teaching her the more diplomatic, "No, thank you") but not, "It's disgusting" because that is rude to the rest of us at the table.

As for bread crusts, my first goes in and out of it, so finally I just started saving them and giving them to her little sister for snacks. LOL That might not work for you. But I also freeze them and we feed them to the ducks some days.

This summer I made popsicles and I'm thinking of doing it again. Basically, I make a smoothie however I'd make it, and then I freeze it in the shape of popsicles. Kids love popsicles. So that's always a big win in terms of nutrition, though massively expensive.

We don't waste because they can't play with food, so if they don't eat it, we put it back in the dish for leftovers. Maybe that's gross but yes we are just about that poor.

I have totally given my younger son the crusts from DS1's grilled cheese sandwiches! And I put things back in the dish for leftovers, too, if I can.

He never says things are disgusting, he seems to totally understand that we love [broccoli/tomatoes/peaches/whatever]. He seems really open to the concept of vegetables -- we grew some tomatoes on our deck this summer (which I know are technically fruits ...) and he was totally invested in them and super interested in watching them grow, watering them, harvesting them, etc. ... but still wouldn't try any.

It really bothers me that he intuits that we have "endless" food so he can get away with waste. I'm sure that kids in places where there is truly a shortage eat whatever vegetables are given to them because they know there is limited food. There's a lot less waste now because I don't try anymore to serve him anything I know he's unlikely to eat. He has a rotation -- grilled cheese, quesadilla, pb&j, alfredo pasta ... I can't believe that he isn't sick of this stuff but he doesn't seem to be. At his in home day care, he was served whatever was for lunch there, a much larger variety, and very consistently would eat the bread item, cheese, and fruit, and leave the rest. Sigh. Occasionally he would try a bite of something else.

I have heard of Ellyn Satter and was thinking of checking her book out of the library. But it sounds like there is a range of opinion about what to do on this issue ... I will have to give it some more thought.


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## Minxie (Apr 15, 2008)

Around three children seem to hit a phase wherein they wish to control things so...try giving him some control. I negotiate with my (now)four-year-old son what goes in his lunch box and what we are eating at other meals. It helps that we discuss types of foods such as proteins, vegetables, fruits, and starches. He knows that he needs one of each of these, so we negotiate which he will have. It has created some weird meal combinations but so what? He's eating.









We have lot of discussions about what are healthy foods and what are not, especially when he is looking for a dessert.







"Sure, you can have a frozen yogurt for dessert _after_ you eat your green beans. Green beans are VERY healthy and your body needs them to grow."

He helps me grocery shop and cook; sometimes he is the sous-chef and sometimes I am. Cooking dinner gets him VERY excited about eating what he's cooked.

Take the idea of repetition to heart. For the LONGEST time, my son swore he hated green peppers in his scrambled eggs; one day, he asked me to cook them that way and now he always wants them that way.

I cook most of his veg very simply, without spice even. I usually just steam the veg or serve it raw. For example, as a salad he will take spinach with croutons or bacon bits but no cheese, no tomato. I put a tiny bit of salad dressing in a carry container that comes home with most of the dressing still in it. We do use cinnamon a lot though; sweet potatoes, butternut squash and cranberries, dusted on top of fruit salad, etc.

My son also doesn't eat bread crusts so we either put them in the compost bin or don't use bread. One of his favorite lunches right now are ham-and-spinach-rolls, created when he kept taking the ham and spinach out of his ham and cheese sandwiches. He wouldn't eat the cheese or the bread so...I stopped putting it in there. I take three slices of thinly cut ham and lay them on a cutting board. Drop a few spinach leaves on each, roll and cut in half for six rolls. He LOVES them!









We are very big on not wasting food here also; I avoid that by giving him small amounts and using salad plates instead of the large dinner plates. If he has food left on his plate, he puts it into a small container and saves it for later in the fridge. Sometimes he eats it, sometimes I eat it, sometimes it goes into the compost bin.









For weird pickiness anecdata, my son refused to eat french fries for the longest time; they were just a ketchup delivery service.







Occasionally, he _might_ deign to try one but it's more likely that he will eat a salad; I, however, LOVE french fries and force myself to eat salads.


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## Essie (Oct 9, 2004)

msmiranda; maybe you can chk out the Ellen Satter book and see what YOU think. Don't worry about other peoples opinions on it.

Also, some foods that my son rejected a while ago he now eats. I'm always sure to show him how excited and glad I am about him trying new things and that I'm so glad he likes something he didn't before. When he tells me he doesn't like certain foods I casually say "well, maybe you will some day". I tell him about myself and how I didn't like mushrooms or avocado when I was his age, but I kept giving them a chance and now they are some of my favorite foods.

I think in terms of waste giving small portions is great. LIke another poster said, do this to avoid waste and I think it sends a message also that we don't just gorge on huge amounts of food. Also, that's a chance to use manners and for little kids to ask for what they want (if it's more).


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:

I'm sure that kids in places where there is truly a shortage eat whatever vegetables are given to them because they know there is limited food.
I think kids that have true sensory issues will definitely still refuse food until they are quite malnourished (I knew a girl that only ate creamy foods, and she'd mash and mash her soups up, eat yoghurt, and not eat any meat, and who was as a result anemic and quite small for her age). However other kids may work out a deal with an adult, and eat all the rice from a dish to the exclusion of everything else, but since it's a common dish, it's not a big deal. Nothing is wasted.

I do think that a truly hungry child will eat vegetables if those are his only option, barring a serious developmental disorder. But if there is even one other option, the child may remain a bit hungry and half-fill up on potatoes. That does happen.


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## provocativa (Jan 17, 2005)

my kids did the testing and control issues, and i made a lot of dips and smoothie popsicles during those phases. however, it should be noted to the op that mostly or only wanting to eat wheat and dairy can be a sign of food intolerance of those very items. wheat and dairy both contain opiate peptides, and when not broken down in the gut these actually give the eater a kind of a buzz. people are actually addicted to these foods for this reason. autistic and asperger's kids often have an exacerbated response to these peptides, which interferes with their brain activity. it's an easy issue to google, and it has come up on threads in the allergies section here.


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## outlier (Sep 29, 2008)

Eek, I feel like I'm reading a thread that my parents could have written about me when I was younger. I was a very picky eater, and I think we're all somewhat amazed I made it out of childhood and grew into a healthy adult! In my case I honestly think it was mostly stubbornness. Even if I had never tried a certain food in my life, if I didn't like the look of it, there was no way it was getting anywhere near my mouth. My parents probably didn't help the situation when they would describe me to others as "their picky eater" while shaking their heads. It kind of became my thing after a while.

I have to say, college was a huge eye-opener for me when it came to food. Some of my favorite foods now are things I wouldn't have tried even as a high schooler, let alone as a young child.


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## leighi123 (Nov 14, 2007)

I would simply not make special meals.

For my ds, I always have just made whatever I feel like making for dinner, and he can eat it, have leftovers from lunch/last night or he can get his own food from his snack cupboard and eat that (his snack cupboard ONLY has very healthy foods like fruit, cut up veggies, plain soy yogart, etc).

That way he still has choices, but I dont go out of my way to make him something special. He is not going to go hungry, unless he chooses to. I dont want to make it a power struggle thing, he has his choices, he knows what they are, pick something or dont eat.

If he chooses not to eat, he is still welcome to sit at the table unless he is goofing around in which case he is allowed to go read books or play until the meal is over. Usually, even if he doesnt want to eat he still sits with us and ends up trying some of the food anyway!

He does have food allergies, but most meals we can make by taking his portion out before adding an ingredient he is allergic to or something like that, but most we just make allergy free from the start b/c its easier. He is a super tiny kid and I did have to 'make him eat' for a while when he was younger b/c he was way underweight, but now that his allergies are under control for the most part, its easier to not worry too much if he skips a meal.

Between meals, he can have food from his snack cupboard, but he knows he must eat at his table and clean up when he is done (so the dog doesnt), b/c of that, he doesnt mindlessly snack spoiling his dinner.

Also, deserts are not an every day thing, so there is no 'eat your dinner or your dont get desert' kind of thing, deserts are just a random special treat (usually when I want something!)


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

OK, so I am way in the minority on this one when threads like this come up, but we drew a hard line on this one after a year+ of things slowly morphing into "kid food" and "adult food". I just plain got sick of making separate meals/lots of components, or them grabbing a yogurt or cereal or whatever when there was perfectly good, not highly unusually flavored food being made every night for dinner. It started innocently with me fiixing a separate starch if the kids didn't like the one we were having, or a separate protein...and snowballed over the course of a year to basically making 2 meals every single night because I wa sjust too emotionally spent form other things to have drama at mealtime. But I got tired of it and felt like it was ridiculously privileged for us to be living like that and the kids expecting to hav ehteir favorite foods at every meal and snack every day.

So the lightbulb moment came one day when thinking about "not liking" food. The lightbulb was that you don't _have_ to like everything you eat. Some foods may not be your favorites, some you may not even like, but they are good for you and good fuel for your body and cooking and sharing a meal (not sharing a table with 2 different meals) is an important value DH and I wanted to pass to the kids. And we told htem EXACTLY that. We prepped them for several days that we would be changing things and had several conversations about food and likes and favorites and dislikes and things that truly are objectionable/make you truly ill. We would point out that maybe mommy wasn't in the mood for spaghetti tonight but it's what daddy made, and it's healthy and so I ate it and wound up enjoying it. Or that daddy doesn't like rice at all, but when mommy makes meals with rice he eats some because that is what's been made. None of the foods we make are unusual, so we just got to the point where it was ridiculous that they "didn't like" a chicken breast with potatoes and green beans and were getting a separate spread of food, so that's pretty much what they were given and what they had to eat. I made sure there was always one item they liked, and they only got a few small bites of the other things at first to ease them into it. But they did have to eat it.

I won't lie, it wasn't pretty for a few nights. There was LOUD protest from DD who was about 3 when we started this, and a few very LONG dinners. DS was a little over 5. We were sympathetic, but firm. In the beginning there was always one thing in the meal plan that they liked so they wouldn't starve, but they needed to have X # of bites of everything else, too.

Now, they both have some texture and flavor profiles that they truly, truly find objectionable and we do not force those on them - For instance, neither of them will eat casseroles, stews, or soups where there are a bunch of things mixed together in a creamy/liquidy medium, so we don't force that on them - they can have a PBJ or whatever those nights. I still, after trying dozens and dozens of times throughout my life, don't like fresh fish (I like shrimp, and tolerate lobster, but that's about it), and it's a texture thing - so I get that people can have true objections to some foods (but it's usually just a category and not MOST foods beign disliked) - and I also realize that some people have sensory issues or other medical reasons to not eat things. But for *most* people with no sensory/medical issues, having only a handful of foods you "like" I think has more to do with beign used to favorites and not pushing your comfort zone to broaden horizons, and less to do with actually "disliking" things.

Since we implemented "Operation Victorian Orphanage" (as DH and I called it in private), their horizons have expanded *greatly*. Just today my 6-1/2 yo son picked out spicy shrimp sushi for lunch out today and GOBBLED it down, to the amusement of several families nearby.

For regular old meats, starches, and veggies not prepared in really unusual ways, they each get as many small bites as their age. If they want more of anything they have to finish all their firsts before they get seconds of anything. And we always have a salad/raw veggies with every dinner, which they both have loved since before they were 1 year old.

They get to select their breakfast, their lunch, and their snacks every day from their favorite foods. And they each have a "choose night" for dinner every week where they pick the dinner menu. So for just 5 meals out of 21 (+ 14 snacks) every week, they eat what we prepare whether it's their favorite foods, whether they like it or not...I don't think that's unreasonable at all.







:

I feel SO much better about mealtimes as a family, and things are so much more peaceful. For several weeks every night before dinner we would prep/remind them about what to expect and what we expected from them. I was feeling really......excessive....about catering to their tastes so much, it just felt very privileged to me and I didn't like the value it was passing to them. This feels WAY better, and everyone is truly OK with the foods we eat. They occasionally might try to pull a fast one on us, but we gently but firmly remind them that dinenr is dinner and they have a TON of choice all week, and this is what's being served and is what we'll all eat.


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## Essie (Oct 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *outlier* 
Eek, I feel like I'm reading a thread that my parents could have written about me when I was younger. I was a very picky eater, and I think we're all somewhat amazed I made it out of childhood and grew into a healthy adult! In my case I honestly think it was mostly stubbornness. Even if I had never tried a certain food in my life, if I didn't like the look of it, there was no way it was getting anywhere near my mouth. My parents probably didn't help the situation when they would describe me to others as "their picky eater" while shaking their heads. It kind of became my thing after a while.

I have to say, college was a huge eye-opener for me when it came to food. Some of my favorite foods now are things I wouldn't have tried even as a high schooler, let alone as a young child.

Hey, that's great that you turned a corner with food! Some people seem to never want to try new things and to me it seems sad to miss out on foods that are so good since food is one of my fave things!


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

First, I'm lucky that if there are leftovers in the fridge, they will absolutely get eaten, so we don't have much waste. That's where I'm coming from so you can decide how applicable what we do is to your situation.

I serve my dd some of what we have. If it's something with parts, I try to keep the parts separate for her before I mix them for us. I put a bit of it on her plate, and if she says she doesn't like it, she can fix herself one of a very few (and all healthy) things. The other things are not exciting, as if they were more intresting than what the main meal was she'd always choose that. And she has to get it herself, and did when she was 3.

I agree that the food has to be sitting in front of a child quite a few times before they'll feel comfortable with it, and eventually she always tries things, and at 8 she eats almost always what we have now. There are only a couple of things she still won't eat. And she knows if she won't eat it she has to get her own food.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

I don't think your child sounds picky for his age and the foods he picks are very healthy. Ds was about the same at 3 years old. I think variety is over-rated in the west. Most three year olds around the world survive on some breastmilk and the local starch, fruits/greens, and meat. This is usually the same choice at every meal, every day, all year long. And some of these kids are in the longest lived countries in the world.

Sometimes I think this idea that we need all this variety in the west is a way to make us good consumers, rather than good eaters.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Interesting perspective, Heartmama! On the other hand, I really liked Heather's perspective as well. Good thread.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
I don't think your child sounds picky for his age and the foods he picks are very healthy. Ds was about the same at 3 years old. I think variety is over-rated in the west. Most three year olds around the world survive on some breastmilk and the local starch, fruits/greens, and meat. This is usually the same choice at every meal, every day, all year long. And some of these kids are in the longest lived countries in the world.

Sometimes I think this idea that we need all this variety in the west is a way to make us good consumers, rather than good eaters.

This is such a good point to keep in mind, and so relevant when the child gets almost only healthy choices.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

this is a topic close to my heart and every time it comes up i have to remember that everyone has different views on what is expectable and what is not.

i grew up in a house that forced eating, cleaning the plate and eating foods you didn't like (even when it was known) the punishment (in my mind then and to this day) was very harsh. i promised myself that i would never make eating a battle.

having 5 kids of all different ages and stages i have found that they all seem to go thru somewhat of a "picky" stage. with dd (our first) i would make her try bites, she would sometimes sit at the table for a long time to try a bite of this or a bit of that. it was awful. and to this day i feel bad that we did that. it didn't make it better, she wasn't less picky it just made meal time a HUGE PIA. and a time that i dreaded every single day. now dd (at 16) only has a handful of foods she actually dislikes (like most people have a few things they don't enjoy at all), the other kids are all in different stages of "pickiness" my 12 year old ds#1 is coming around and is really into trying new things. the younger boys (one who has texture issues) are all still in a "picky" stage and have foods they like much more then others.
I DO NOT make separate meals. i LOVE to cook and bake and experiment. (so sometimes i make stuff that even i don't like at all.) and if dinner looks unappealing and/or tastes nasty to someone there is always a sandwich or fruit if they want it. and they can get it themselves.

i guess i have come to the decisioned that i can not control this in my kids, this is an area that they have control over. and i would not like it if someone came to me and said you have to eat 38 bites of this food you dislike because i said so and you have to at least try this thing i know you don't like because i am bigger then you. if what is in the house is good to eat then i think most kids will eat what they need. if you don't want them only eating cookies, then don't have them in the house (or make them yourself and make them healthy so you don't mind if they eat them). have alot of good healthy food around and then let them pick for themselves.
i do like to have a sit down dinner every night and so we do. like i said i don't make special meals but 9/10 at least one thing being served is stuff they all like and they eat that. and if after dinner they are hungry for something else then they are welcome to it. with a big family (5 kids two adults) i don't normally have left overs and if i do dh takes them to work for lunch or dd eats them when she gets home from school or i eat them. lol so there isn't alot of waste.

h


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaofthree* 
with dd (our first) i would make her try bites, she would sometimes sit at the table for a long time to try a bite of this or a bit of that. it was awful. and to this day i feel bad that we did that. it didn't make it better, she wasn't less picky it just made meal time a HUGE PIA. and a time that i dreaded every single day.

See, and in our house it made a HUGE difference, they became LESS picky, and made DH and me STOP dreading mealtime. I think a lot of this depends on the kid and *why* they are in a picky stage.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

Yes it is always good to remember when reading threads that you are just mining for ideas, and you can't know which will work with your child. That is a good point, that the reason for a behavior varies, so the solution will vary. I have seen an approach work miracles with one child, and make another child frantic with distress.


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## Essie (Oct 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
See, and in our house it made a HUGE difference, they became LESS picky, and made DH and me STOP dreading mealtime. I think a lot of this depends on the kid and *why* they are in a picky stage.

This is very true. Some kids are picky maybe b/c they are experimenting with control or lack of. Some kids (like mine) have sensory stuff going on and something that one kid loves (yogurt) may have a smell that is purely disgusting to another (like mine). Then 1-2 years later, they like yogurt again and try new things. Hopefully parents who enjoy a wide variety of foods will influence their kids eating. It just depends though. I love and try many things and my parents always have too. My sister on the other hand, will not eat certain meats b/c they are "too cute" like duck & rabbit. She won't eat lamb and rarely eats beef. She won't eat pork b/c her husband won't, and neither of them eat fish at all. I love all of the above, so go figure!


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama* 
I have seen an approach work miracles with one child, and make another child frantic with distress.

THis is like the playful parenting 'get outrageous' technique where a kid wants something and you go outrageous with it like, "yeah, I wish our whole house was made of cookies!" type thing to make it fun and light - my daughter loves it and gets in on it and we laugh hysterically. My son? ZOMG, makes him ANGRY like you're mocking him and/or saying his wants are ridiculous. We learned that the hard way.


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## mamaofthree (Jun 5, 2002)

also, something to consider... not every person does well on the same diet. i know i feel better eating meat, but some people feel better being vegan. i think we (i know i have) think that just because they are kids they don't know what makes them feel good to eat. so maybe a big hunk of meat isn't ideal for them, OR maybe not eating meat isn't ideal for them.
i still believe that if you have in the house food you don't mind them eating all day (like the snacks and stuff) then they will make a "balanced" meal over a period of a few days. they will get what they need. so if the occational cookie comes in it isn't a big deal because over all their daily intake of food is good. maybe not each meal, but thru out the day/days.

h


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## Essie (Oct 9, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
THis is like the playful parenting 'get outrageous' technique where a kid wants something and you go outrageous with it like, "yeah, I wish our whole house was made of cookies!" type thing to make it fun and light - my daughter loves it and gets in on it and we laugh hysterically. My son? ZOMG, makes him ANGRY like you're mocking him and/or saying his wants are ridiculous. We learned that the hard way.









That's a great idea. I'm gonna have to try that!


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