# Parts of brain missing?



## StacieM (Oct 13, 2006)

My SIL just found out via MRI that her baby is missing two parts of the brain, corpus callosum and lateral ventricles. They're just not there. She goes to patient counseling on Tues. Right now all she knows is that it's "pretty severe."

Has anyone had experience with this? Is it like anencephaly? On the u/s they said that EVERYTHING else around that area looked fine.

I believe the diagnosis is lethal, but I'm just trying to look for others stories and can't find anything with this particular diagnosis. I don't know what she's going to decide to do. I know what I hope she does, but it's their decision to make and I just can't imagine what they are going through. I've had a loss, but it was early, still a loss, but definitely a different situation. I'm so heartbroken for them. This baby is their first.


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## widdlelou (Feb 28, 2006)

I'm so sorry about your sister. I have no experience with this, but I just wanted to say how sorry i am. What a horrible decision to have ot make.


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## rach03 (Dec 30, 2006)

Oh my goodness, how heartbreaking. I have no experience, just wanted to say I'm so very sorry for your family.


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## wifeandmom (Jun 28, 2005)

I am so sorry about this diagnosis.









I know a person can live without a corpus callosum as I know a couple with a son who was born without one. He had a lot of developmental delays, but eventually overcame many of them and is now in college.

The lateral ventricles I have no idea about though. The combination of the two parts missing may mean the baby will not live. I hope they get some answers at their appointment. Waiting and wondering would be torture.

They will be in our prayers.


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## WaturMama (Oct 6, 2006)

I am so sorry. My heart goes out to your family.


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## StacieM (Oct 13, 2006)

wifeandmom - that's what I had heard to about just the corpus callosum missing, but the two together, we'll just have to see what the neurologist says. Will know more on Tues. As of now, mom and dad to baby don't want to terminate. I hope they don't. I hope they choose to deliver be it sooner by induction or later my nature. I just know it'll be good for them to at least see their baby and get to hold him and hug him and talk to him and everything....even if it's not for long.


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## Mama Poot (Jun 12, 2006)

I knew a girl in college who literally had no brain. I forget her exact diagnosis, but all she had was the parts that allowed her to speak and have rational thought, etc.. . There were some things she couldn't do, certain kinds of math and things like that ,and I know she had seizures. But it is possible to live a normal life depending on what the situation is. I wish your family the best


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## Mindi22 (Jun 28, 2005)

That's so scary, and I'm sorry to hear that your SIL is going through that.

The lateral ventricles funtion to help CSF (cerebrospinal fluid) flow around the brain - CSF is a lot like blood in the central nervous system bringing nutrients to the nerves. I can't find anything talking about missing lateral ventricals, but I think it would help to know if they are missing all together, or if there is some remnant that is more of a canal rather than a ventricle (a ventricle is like a larger open space or chamber within the system). If they are missing altogether, I question if there is any system in their place for moving CSF around the brain. It doesn't sound good, but our bodies are amazing, and miracles can happen!

The corpus callosum functions to help communication between the right and left sides of the brain. Missing it can often result in some degree of slower development, learning issues, etc, but many folks with a missing corpus callosum seem to function totally normally, so it's impossible to judge with just the diagnosis.

Also, ultrasound can be wrong. Keep us posted on what they are told by the neurologist. Honestly, I would urge her to get a second and third opinion regarding all of her options.

HTH!
-Mindi


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## kosheng (Oct 22, 2005)

Stacie: i'm so sorry that your family is faced with this. it's truly heartbreaking. you're in my heart and prayers, mama.


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## StacieM (Oct 13, 2006)

she wanted a 2nd opinion too because she knows I got one when I was going through my loss. The MRI and u/s probably wouldn't change, but the interpretation may be different with a different neurologist?

Anyway - she was basically told that there is more than one thing going on. More than just the corpus callosum and that in conjunction with each other....all these issues make it hard for them to say what baby/baby's life will be like. They said that if she decided to carry to term, baby could abort itself and she wouldn't know in which case she would be at risk for infection. I'm kind of annoyed at that statement with no other information - like, baby dying in utero is possible with "normal" pregnancies as well letting her know that there are ways for her to kind of "keep an eye on baby" and know if that does happen. They made like there would be no way for her to tell and she would almost certainly get an infection.

Anyway - the neurologist also said that baby could possibly live for up to 5 years, but because of the defect in one part of the brain (it's growing outside of where it's supposed to?) baby probably wouldn't be able to breathe on it's own and would need oxygen all the time and probably wouldn't have mobility or be able to roll over because of this. So that made them kind of shy away from trying to carry to term because they don't want to put their baby through that.

Then her ob more or less told her that she is not in favor of induction and delivery, but that she would lean more toward termination (dilate and extract) and if they do that, baby would just be "remains." So my SIL asked if they could do a 3D ultrasound so they could at least see baby. The dr said she wouldn't recommend it because it's not a "pretty sight." But that she would do one if they wanted to. Another thing I'm annoyed with as far as the way the dr handled it. Then she told my SIL that the reason she doesn't want her to induce was because she thinks it would be much too traumatic and that she would have a good chance of needing an emergency c-section which would only make everything even MORE traumatic....so now my SIL, who was hoping that would be an option isn't sure that she would be able to handle it since the dr only gave her to "bad" scenario of that choice. Also, my SIL wanted to come home where all their family is to do this if she was going to be ending pg soon. But the dr said that she (the dr) would feel more comfortable if my SIL stayed there to do everything since they have all her records and info and they have all the specialists that deal with this sort of thing and everything there. Plus, here at home, there is no option of termination because it's too late and since her dr made induction and delivery sound like such a terrible option she's thinking maybe she should just stay there instead of come home where all family is. BTW -there is a dr here, her mom's dr who is great, that said he would take her in as a patient no problem if she did want to come back home to have this baby. Where she is at, she can terminate up until 24 weeks, which puts her in a rush to make a decision because 24 weeks is only 1 week away and her dr wants an answer tomorrow.

I just hope she does what SHE wants to do and doesn't worry about what her dr thinks is easier or more convenient. She has to listen to her heart on this one so that she can make a decision she'll be able to live with for the rest of her life.


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## carlylovesthesims2 (Mar 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *StacieM* 
she wanted a 2nd opinion too because she knows I got one when I was going through my loss. The MRI and u/s probably wouldn't change, but the interpretation may be different with a different neurologist?

Anyway - she was basically told that there is more than one thing going on. More than just the corpus callosum and that in conjunction with each other....all these issues make it hard for them to say what baby/baby's life will be like. They said that if she decided to carry to term, baby could abort itself and she wouldn't know in which case she would be at risk for infection. I'm kind of annoyed at that statement with no other information - like, baby dying in utero is possible with "normal" pregnancies as well letting her know that there are ways for her to kind of "keep an eye on baby" and know if that does happen. They made like there would be no way for her to tell and she would almost certainly get an infection.

Anyway - the neurologist also said that baby could possibly live for up to 5 years, but because of the defect in one part of the brain (it's growing outside of where it's supposed to?) baby probably wouldn't be able to breathe on it's own and would need oxygen all the time and probably wouldn't have mobility or be able to roll over because of this. So that made them kind of shy away from trying to carry to term because they don't want to put their baby through that.

Then her ob more or less told her that she is not in favor of induction and delivery, but that she would lean more toward termination (dilate and extract) and if they do that, baby would just be "remains." So my SIL asked if they could do a 3D ultrasound so they could at least see baby. The dr said she wouldn't recommend it because it's not a "pretty sight." But that she would do one if they wanted to. Another thing I'm annoyed with as far as the way the dr handled it. Then she told my SIL that the reason she doesn't want her to induce was because she thinks it would be much too traumatic and that she would have a good chance of needing an emergency c-section which would only make everything even MORE traumatic....so now my SIL, who was hoping that would be an option isn't sure that she would be able to handle it since the dr only gave her to "bad" scenario of that choice. Also, my SIL wanted to come home where all their family is to do this if she was going to be ending pg soon. But the dr said that she (the dr) would feel more comfortable if my SIL stayed there to do everything since they have all her records and info and they have all the specialists that deal with this sort of thing and everything there. Plus, here at home, there is no option of termination because it's too late and since her dr made induction and delivery sound like such a terrible option she's thinking maybe she should just stay there instead of come home where all family is. BTW -there is a dr here, her mom's dr who is great, that said he would take her in as a patient no problem if she did want to come back home to have this baby. Where she is at, she can terminate up until 24 weeks, which puts her in a rush to make a decision because 24 weeks is only 1 week away and her dr wants an answer tomorrow.

I just hope she does what SHE wants to do and doesn't worry about what her dr thinks is easier or more convenient. She has to listen to her heart on this one so that she can make a decision she'll be able to live with for the rest of her life.


i fiund some infoomation for you

Agenesis of the corpus callosum

Definition

Agenesis of the corpus callosum (ACC) is an abnormality of brain structure, present at birth, that is characterized by partial or complete absence of the corpus callosum. The corpus callosum is a bundle of nerve fibers that connects the two hemispheres (halves) of the brain and allows information to pass back and forth between both sides.

Description

Agenesis of the corpus callosum is one form of abnormal corpus callosum development. Other corpus callosum disorders include hypoplastic (thin or underdeveloped) corpus callosum and dysgenesis (abnormal formation) of the corpus callosum. In complete ACC, the corpus callosum is entirely missing. In partial ACC, some portion, usually the posterior portion, is absent. Agenesis of the corpus callosum is often found in combination with other brain abnormalities and some degree of mental impairment. Birth defects involving other parts of the body (especially the eyes, face, heart, and skeletal system) may also be present. ACC can occur alone, without other obvious brain abnormalities. In some of these cases, the affected person is healthy and has an IQ (intelligence quotient) in the normal range. Even in these cases however, subtle neuropsychological and cognitive abnormalities may exist.

Demographics

Estimates of the frequency of ACC range between 0.0005% and 0.7% of children. An incidence of 2-3% has been reported in children with developmental disabilities. Between one-half to three-quarters of cases of ACC occur in males. ACC is a feature of Aicardi syndrome, an X-linked (caused by a gene on the X chromosome) condition that occurs almost exclusively in females and is thought to be lethal in males.

Causes and symptoms

The corpus callosum forms during the fifth to sixteenth week of pregnancy. It is thought that ACC occurs when one or more factors interfere with the migration (movement) of cells in the brain that eventually form the corpus callosum. An underlying cause for ACC is found in about one-half of cases. Factors that may affect normal corpus callosum development include:

* prenatal infections, viruses, or toxic exposures such as rubella or fetal alcohol syndrome
* chromosome abnormalities such as trisomy 8, trisomy 13, and trisomy 18
* genetic syndromes such as Aicardi syndrome, acrocallosal syndrome, Andermann syndrome, Shapiro syndrome, and Menkes disease
* blocked growth of the corpus callosum due to cysts or other abnormal structures
* a cerebral dysgenesis syndrome, in which there is abnormal formation of the brain such as Dandy-Walker syndrome, Arnold-Chiari malformation, holoprosencephaly, or hydrocephalus

The symptoms of ACC largely depend on the presence or absence of other medical conditions. The majority of children with ACC with other brain abnormalities usually show signs of a neurological disorder by age two. Symptoms in these children can include:

* seizures
* developmental delay or mental retardation
* increased or decreased head size
* hydrocephalus (abnormal accumulation of cerebrospinalfluid in the spaces of the brain)
* cerebral palsy
* hypotonia (decreased muscle tone)
* failure to thrive

In children with ACC who otherwise have limited neurological problems, there are slight differences in cognition (thought processes) and psychosocial functioning compared with children without ACC. Neuropsychological testing has shown that such individuals can have any of the following:

* motor, language, or cognitive delays
* poor motor coordination
* sensitivity to tactile sensations
* high pain tolerance
* cognitive and social challenges

Cognitive and social challenges may become more apparent with age. Examples of these challenges include difficulties using language in social settings and with performing tasks that require complex reasoning, creativity, or problem-solving skills. Patients with ACC may display limited insight into one's own behavior, a lack of awareness of others' feelings, misunderstanding of social cues, limited sophistication of humor, and difficulty imagining consequences of behavior.

Diagnosis

A health professional suspicious of ACC may recommend a neurological evaluation that includes imaging studies. The more subtle cognitive and psychosocial problems found in individuals with isolated ACC are less likely to lead to the diagnosis. In some cases, the diagnosis of ACC is incidental, made in the course of an evaluation for other reasons. There may well be many asymptomatic individuals with partial or complete agenesis who never come to medical attention.

Diagnosis of ACC relies on imaging studies such as ultrasound (prenatal or postnatal), magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), or computerized axial tomography (CT or CAT) scan. Diagnostic findings include:

* absence of the corpus callosum
* widely displaced and parallel lateral ventricles
* selective dilatation of the posterior horns
* widely spaced frontal horns
* upward displacement and enlargement of the third ventricle
* displaced orientation of gyral markings

Fetal ultrasound can detect some but not all cases of ACC, beginning at about 20 weeks of pregnancy. The prenatal or postnatal diagnosis of ACC should be followed by studies aimed to determine the cause for the ACC. Such studies may include chromosome analysis, metabolic screening, and genetic and ophthalmologic consultations.

Treatment team

Treatment for patients with ACC is highly individualized because the severity of symptoms varies from patient to patient. Depending upon the symptoms, many medical specialists can assist the patient's primary physician or nurse practitioner, including a neurologist, ophthalmologist, geneticist, neuropsychologist, behavioral psychologist, occupational therapist, physical therapist, speech-language pathologist, and experts in special education and early intervention.

Treatment

There is no cure for ACC. Treatment primarily includes management of associated problems such as seizures, hydrocephalus, and cerebral palsy.

Recovery and rehabilitation

Limited information is available about the optimal remedial strategies for individuals with ACC. Speech therapy, occupational therapy, physical therapy, and early intervention are common services provided to patients with ACC. The goal of these therapies is to maximize the patient's success in school, work, and life in general. Speech therapy can help patients with speech delays, apraxia (the inability to make voluntary movements despite normal muscle function), and difficulties with pragmatics or social language use. Occupational therapy can help patients with sensory integration problems. Physical therapy can help address problems such as impaired coordination, motor delays, and spasticity (abnormally increased muscle stiffness and restricted movement).

Clinical trials

There are currently no clinical trials for patients with agenesis of the corpus callosum. Patients and families may elect to participate in genetic research. Laboratories searching for genes associated with agenesis of the corpus callosum include the laboratory of Elliott H. Sherr M.D., Ph.D, at the University of California, San Francisco, and the Harvard Institutes of Medicine. Both labs accept contact from patients and families.

Prognosis

The prognosis for ACC varies according to the presence and severity of associated problems such as microcephaly (small head), seizures, cerebral palsy, and cerebral dysgenesis. In the case of a fetus diagnosed with isolated ACC, prediction of outcome remains imprecise. Estimates of the chance for a normal developmental outcome for a case detected prenatally range from 35-85%. It has also been stated that a so-called "normal" or "asymptomatic" outcome for ACC does not exist. Subtle or cognitive and psychosocial differences have been found in patients with ACC and a normal IQ.

Special concerns

The special educational needs of children with ACC vary. Children with ACC may be eligible for an individual education plan (IEP). An IEP provides a framework from which administrators, teachers, and parents can meet the educational needs of a child with ACC. Depending upon severity of symptoms and the degree of learning difficulties, some children with ACC may be best served by special education classes or a private educational setting.

Resources

BOOKS

Brown, W. S., and M. T. Banich, eds. Development of the Corpus Callosum and Interhemispheric Interactions: A Special Issue of Developmental Neuropsychology. Mahwah, NJ: Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, Inc., 2001.

Lassonde, M., and M. Jeeves, ed. Callosal Agenesis: A Natural Split Brain? New York: Plenum Press, 1994.

Parker, James N., and Philip M. Parker, eds. The Official Parent's Sourcebook on Agenesis of the Corpus Callosum: A Revised and Updated Directory for the Internet Age. San Diego: ICON Health Publications, 2002.

Rourke, B. P., ed. Syndrome of Nonverbal Learning Disabilities: Neurodevelopmental Manifestations. New York: Guilford Press, 1995.

PERIODICALS

Brown, W. S., and L. K. Paul. "Cognitive and Psychosocial Deficits in Agenesis of the Corpus Callosum with Normal Intelligence." Cognitive Neuropsychiatry 5 (2000): 135-157.

Davila-Gutierrez, G. "Agenesis and Dysgenesis of the Corpus Callosum." Seminars in Pediatric Neurology 9 (December 2002): 292-301.

Goodyear, P. W., C. M. Bannister, S. Russell, and S. Rimmer. "Outcome in Prenatally Diagnosed Fetal Agenesis of the Corpus Callosum." Fetal Diagnosis and Therapy 16 (May-June 2001): 139-145.

Shevell, M. I. "Clinical and Diagnostic Profile of Agenesis of the Corpus Callosum." Journal of Child Neurology 17 (December 2002): 896-900.

Stickles, J. L., G. L. Schilmoeller, and K. J. Schilmoeller. "A 23-Year Review of Communication Development in an Individual with Agenesis of the Corpus Callosum." International Journal of Disability, Development and Education 49 (2002): 367-383.

WEBSITES

The National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS). Agenesis of the Corpus Callosum Information Page. (March 30, 2004.) http://www.ninds.nih.gov/health_and_...enesis_doc.htm.

Corpal Home Page. (March 30, 2004.) http://www.corpal.org.uk/.

National Center for Biotechnology Information. Online Mendelian Inheritance in Man (OMIM) Home Page. (March 30, 2004.) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/omim/.

ORGANIZATIONS

Agenesis of the Corpus Callosum (ACC) Network, 5749 Merrill Hall, Room 118, University of Maine, Orono, ME 04469-5749. (207) 581-3119; Fax: (207) 581-3120. [email protected].

Aicardi Syndrome Foundation. P.O. Box 3202, St. Charles, IA 60174. (800) 374-8518. [email protected]. http://www.aicardisyndrome.org.

National Organization for Disorders of the Corpus Callosum (NODCC). 18032-C Lemon Drive PMB 363, Yorba Linda, CA 92886. (714) 717-0063. http://www.corpuscallosum.org.

Dawn J. Cardeiro, MS, CGC

Wikipedia
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agenesis of the corpus callosum

Agenesis of the Corpus Callosum (ACC) is a rare birth defect (congenital disorder) in which there is a complete or partial absence of the corpus callosum. Agenesis of the corpus callosum occurs when the corpus callosum, the band of tissue connecting the two hemispheres of the brain, does not develop typically in utero. In addition to agenesis of the corpus callosum, other callosal disorders include hypogenesis (partial formation), dysgenesis (malformation) of the corpus callosum, and hypoplasia (underdevelopment) of the corpus callosum. [1]

Diagnosis

Callosal disorders can only be diagnosed through a brain scan. [2] They may be diagnosed through an MRI, CT Scan, prenatal ultrasound, or prenatal MRI. [3]

Cause

Agenesis of the Corpus Callosum is caused by disruption to development of the fetal brain between the 5th and 16th week of pregnancy.[4] In most cases, it is not possible to know what caused an individual to have ACC or another callosal disorder. However, research suggests that some possible causes may include chromosome errors, inherited genetic factors, prenatal infections or injuries, prenatal toxic exposures, structural blockage by cysts or other brain abnormalities, and metabolic disorders. [5]

Signs and symptoms

Signs and symptoms of Agenesis of the Corpus Callosum and other callosal disorders vary greatly among individuals. However, some characteristics common in individuals with callosal disorders include vision impairments, low muscle tone (hypotonia), poor motor coordination, delays in motor milestones such as sitting and walking, low perception of pain, delayed toilet training, chewing and swallowing difficulties, early speech and language delays, and social difficulties. Recent research suggests that specific social difficulties may be a result of impaired face processing.[6] Unusual social behavior in childhood is often mistaken for or misdiagnosed as Asperger's syndrome or other autism spectrum disorders. Other characteristics sometimes associated with callosal disorders include seizures, spasticity, early feeding difficulties and/or gastric reflux, hearing impairments, abnormal head and facial features, and mental retardation.[7]

Associated Syndromes and Conditions

Some syndromes that frequently include ACC are Aicardi Syndrome, Andermann Syndrome, Shapiro Syndrome, Acrocallosal Syndrome,septo-optic dysplasia, and Menkes Syndrome. Some conditions that are sometimes associated with ACC include maternal nutritional deficiencies or infections, metabolic disorders, Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, and orofacial abnormalities. [8]

Treatment

There are currently no specific medical treatments for callosal disorders, but individuals with ACC and other callosal disorders may benefit from a range of developmental therapies, educational support, and services. It is important to consult with a variety of medical, health, educational and social work professionals. Such professionals include neurologists, neuropsychologists, occupational therapists, physical therapists, speech-language pathologists, pediatricians, geneticists, special educators, early intervention specialists, and adult service providers. [9]

Prognosis

Prognosis varies depending on the type of callosal abnormality and associated conditions or syndromes. It is not possible for the corpus callosum to regenerate or degenerate (i.e., the corpus callosum will not regrow or diminish). [10]. Although some individuals with callosal disorders have average intelligence and lead normal lives, neuropsychological testing reveals subtle differences in higher cortical function compared to individuals of the same age and education without ACC.

Special Cases

Kim Peek, inspiration for the film Rain Man, is famous for his savant abilities. Peek was born with agenesis of the corpus callosum, along with macrocephaly and damage to the cerebellum.


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## Jenns_3_babies (May 26, 2006)

I'd definitely ask for a 2nd opinion. Did the dr say why it would be traumatic for delievery or c-section? Did she mean that she wouldn't want the mother to see the baby that way?

I know personally someone who knew their baby had a major defect and went on to deliever the baby. The baby was born w/out a brain. There was just fluid. She needed to keep the pg for closure and is glad she did against her dr's wishes. She and her family held the baby and took many pictures. I've also read many stories where the dr's try to get the women to terminate b/c it's more convienent for the dr....whatever. The women kept the pregnancy. they consider that time being pg with their baby very sacred.

Honestly, if I were in her situation, I'd follow my own instincts and forget about what the dr's are insisting. If she feels the baby's suffering in utero, then that's something to consider. But she'll never know if that baby had a fighting chance. That's the one thing that makes me really mad about her dr's....they're not really willing to do a 3/4d u/s, or wanting her to wait and see what happens with the baby.

I wish her the best. I'll be looking for follow up posts to see what she decideds.


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## Summerland (Aug 9, 2005)

hugs
aww this is so sad that they have to deal with this


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## WaturMama (Oct 6, 2006)

This is hard enough to deal with emotionally and make sound decisions about without a doctor who distorts information and disregards the mother's intuition. From what I've read, it seems that it would be wise for your SIL to find another doctor, regardless of where she does this and what she does. I know she's on a tight timeline. I am so sorry for her and your family to be facing this very difficult situation.


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## BookGoddess (Nov 6, 2005)

What a tragic and difficult situation. I'm very sorry about the diagnosis.









The Ob is a piece of work. If your SIL wants to see the baby in a 3D u/s who is she to say "the baby won't be a pretty sight". Wow! I'd demand an u/s as I hope your SIL will. I'm glad you're there for her, StacieM. She will need your support and love in the days to come.

Is your SIL in Hawaii too? I just noticed your location. I'm on Oahu btw.


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## Luvingmamma (Apr 21, 2007)

I am very late to post to this but my daughter had SEVERE spina bifida and she was missing much of her brain. I did choose to terminate because it was put quite bluntly that her brain was so swollen with fluid that she was going to pass no matter how we delivered during delivery because of the undo pressure on her brain.

Her spina bifida made her terminal regardless- it was all the way up her back- and it was told to us that repair was not possible as there would not be enough skin-to cover it so either birth or infection would kill her.

We were lucky to have supportive docs and hospital and got over 5 "2nd" opinions and other exams before we made that decision but they gave me over 40 u/s' most had 3d/4d included to help us in our decision.

I am telling you this probably to late to help but we didn't take the first diagnosis for an absolute truth but made sure it was accurate and your sis-inlaw should have that right too- docs should not be limiting her diagnostic tools..

Our daughter was born after a 15 hour labor on October 14, 2005- and i had severe hemoraging and had a d&C after she was born. I was able to hold her and love on her for over 5 hours and we took pictures. I still haven't developed my pictures and my memory of her is fading little by little but I will never forget my dh looking from me to her and her to me and telling me she had my lips, nose and facial structure. I will never know her and I will never have another daughter but I did get to feel her move and know her while she was with me for 17 weeks. which is more then some mothers get so I have to take comfort in that.

I hope this helps someone- I don't talk about my daughter much but lately it has been eating me up watching my son marcus (conceived on her due date) grow its starting to bother me thinking about what she would have been doing now that she would have been a year and a month old....

I think often of Samara Nicole- but its uncomfortable for others including dh when I talk about her.


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