# Dealing with the "ferel" neighbor kid - help!



## Klynne (Jan 1, 2007)

How can I convey to the neighbors, with out burning bridges, that their child is a *MENACE!!!!!!*

Their DD is a year older than our DD (5). I was delighted when we moved here, that DD would have a playmate right next door but after getting to know this child I don't want my DD playing with her.

To compound the problem, during the summer this neighbor child is EVERYWHERE - she's bored and no one cares where she is or what she's doing. We can get no relief from her. If my kids are in our backyard playing she's on the fence trying to join in verbally. If they are in the front playing, she's there dictating play. She is constantly yelling dd's name, trying to get DD to come over to the fence to talk. She encourages dd to do mean things to or say mean things to DS (2) or do things DD is not allowed to do (dd is often swayed by her and does xyz). She manipulates DD by telling her "I won't be your friend if you... or because you....". Not to mention the junk food she passes DD through the fence (via a knot hole).

I've tried asking her nicely to get off the fence. Her reply is always "why" -







- always.

I'm at my whits end. To the point that I don't want my kids out in our beautiful yard because of this menacing girl. This has been going on since July and I've had *enough*.

I made up my mind to talk to our neighbors (who we like and are friendly with on the occasion we see them) but I don't know how to put this, err, gently to them. I don't want things to end up awkward.

Once school starts this won't be an issue but these are my last weeks with dd before she starts school and I resent this girl for crashing our cozy end-of-summer time and schooling dd in bad manners and junk food. (I get that she'll get some of that at school but this girl is basically LIVING, uninvited, in our yard during the day.)

I feel like a mamma bear! lol


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Yep, the feral unwatched child is an issue. You will have to spend some time away from your own home or march over and have a dreaded parent chat with the child's parental unit. The meanness and the junk food must stop! And being perched on a fence is a safety issue.. I'd tell her to get down every time I saw her there.

If you want to hardball this, you could report her to CPS as a child who seems to be alone all day. Really, at her age, she should have some supervision.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

We had two of these.

On girl actually would open our living room window if nobody would answer the door and ask us why we aren't opening our door. Which meant she was in my back yard without being invited. I had one window without a screen that was floor to ceiling that I allowed to the dogs to go through during the day. Then one day she opened my garage door and took out my kids bike and rode off on it. And that was the day I had had enough. Her parents weren't going to do squat about her, so when she came back with the bike I told her I had called the police and reported the bike stolen. She told me to call them back and tell them it was just her...

I told her NO! You took something and didn't ask, you broke into my garage and didn't ask. You've repeatedly come into my back yard and have not asked. I will allow it no longer. Get off my yard and do not come back until you learn how to behave at other peoples homes and learn some respect. And yes as soon as her mother came over I let her have it too. I will not be hostage in my home because she cannot teach her child something simple as RESPECT! (this makes me angry just thinking about)

By the time the other girl came along I was well prepared.

So you can put the sprinkler up by the fence and blare fun music. Your kids can hear her and hopefully the sprinkler will make it hard to stay near the fence line. I would even consider putting up some wood over the knot holes. I've done it.

Good luck and take over your yard and your summer!


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## midnightwriter (Jan 1, 2009)

We have a similar situation, only there are 4 kids, and no fence, AND (which complicates things) my kids periodically do want to play with them, and for shor periods of time they play well. But things deteriorate when the neighbours become too controlling and disrespectful.

As you have only one child to deal with, I'd be just firm with her, over and over again.


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## Buddhamom (Jan 16, 2007)

Sounds like the neighbor should get invisible dog fencing and put the collar on the kid







No, but seriously you need to have a chat with the family. Is she doing it to other neighbors? Perhaps you could get a few together and you all confront parents.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

You have to be firm. A well placed sprinkler is not a bad idea. Also, cover up that hole. Your best defense is teaching your kids as well. My kids have a bedtime. The neighbor girl does not. Even during school. Neighbor girls solution...yell up to their window. My kids are forbidden to do this and they are responsible if they break the rules. i am also not above giving the neighborhood kids the what for. I say things like "go away it is family time." and "the girls cannot play right now. you need to go home." and "if you take our toys again I will call the police" on a regular basis. I stopped feeling bad a long time ago and it is generally easier to teach the kids than the parents anyway.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

See I'm not mean!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilyka*
> 
> You have to be firm. A well placed sprinkler is not a bad idea. Also, cover up that hole. Your best defense is teaching your kids as well. My kids have a bedtime. The neighbor girl does not. Even during school. Neighbor girls solution...yell up to their window. My kids are forbidden to do this and they are responsible if they break the rules. i am also not above giving the neighborhood kids the what for. I say things like "go away it is family time." and "the girls cannot play right now. you need to go home." and "if you take our toys again I will call the police" on a regular basis. I stopped feeling bad a long time ago and it is generally easier to teach the kids than the parents anyway.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilyka*
> 
> You have to be firm. A well placed sprinkler is not a bad idea.


Bahaha!!!


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> If you want to hardball this, you could report her to CPS as a child who seems to be alone all day. Really, at her age, she should have some supervision.


Report her to CPS because she's playing outside her house next door? Really? You think 6-year-olds can't handle being outside without a parent? That's fine for your kids, but IMO 6 is plenty old enough to not need parents continually watching them, and this is absolutely not a CPS issue.

OP, just set some boundaries. Kids this age are very literal, so say exactly what you mean. "We aren't playing with anyone today. You need to go home now." If you try to say it too politely and therefore don't say specifically and explicitly what you want, she won't understand. I have a friend who was having trouble with a next-door child who told the child she wasn't welcome to play in their yard. It's harsh, but the girls was hitting her kids, and would keep coming over to play. But telling her she wasn't welcome to play in their yard ended it.


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## midnightwriter (Jan 1, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *mamazee* 

Report her to CPS because she's playing outside her house next door? Really? You think 6-year-olds can't handle being outside without a parent? That's fine for your kids, but IMO 6 is plenty old enough to not need parents continually watching them, and this is absolutely not a CPS issue.

I agree that this is not a CPS worthy situation. My 6 yo plays in our yard, often with his 3 yo sister, without constant supervision. However most 6 year olds are not well equipped to deal with situations described by the OP. If a 6 yo constantly pesters her neighbours, causing the neighbours' parents to speak to the child sternly and set boundaries with her, it is not an ideal situation to let that child to be unsupervised. I don't watch my kids 100% of the time, but whenever there are neighbours around I'm constantly on the look out, ready to be there if needed. Obviously the OP's situation is different.

OP, just set some boundaries. Kids this age are very literal, so say exactly what you mean. "We aren't playing with anyone today. You need to go home now." If you try to say it too politely and therefore don't say specifically and explicitly what you want, she won't understand. I have a friend who was having trouble with a next-door child who told the child she wasn't welcome to play in their yard. It's harsh, but the girls was hitting her kids, and would keep coming over to play. But telling her she wasn't welcome to play in their yard ended it.

This is a great point.


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Some of her behavior is very typical of a 6 year old. That doesn't mean that you should tolerate it, but do know that the bossiness and dictating play is very typical. It doesn't mean that she's evil, just that no one has taught her this behavior isn't acceptable. As the pp said, you have to be very direct with her. You can be direct and firm, but still polite to her. Some people have a signal that they put out (a flag, an open garage door) that means the kids can come over. I might suggest that.

"If you want to play with us, you need to be polite. If I hear you bossing people around or not listening to other kids' ideas, I'll send you home for an hour. If it happens again, you'll have to go home for the rest of the day."

"If my kids do something they're not supposed to do while you're here, you'll have to go home for an hour, because they need to take a break from playing with friends when they break the rules. If it happens again, we'll need a time out for for the rest of the morning/afternoon."

"Don't pass food to my kids over the fence." "Why?" "Because I don't want them messing up their appetites for the meals we have."

"Get off the fence." "Why?" "Because we want some family time without you and you're interrupting it. We can play again tomorrow/after dinner."

"Get off the fence." "Why?" "Because I'm tired of you telling my kids what to do." (Yes, it's OK to be this direct. She's being rude and she needs to know this.)

"That sounded bossy. How can you say it more politely?" (We've been working on this with our dd (age 7) for about a year now!).

"At our house, the rule is that everyone gets to play. YOU can choose to play by yourself, but if you tell someone they can't play, you'll need to go home."

And probably most importantly,

"It's time for you to go home now." "Why?" "Because we need some family time. Go find something else to do."

Personally, I would take 2-3 days where you're out there with them and enforce the rules. If she's not had any rules enforced at home, and you've not been consistent with the rules with her, she's going to need a lot of practice. If you do this now, you'll have a pleasant last 2-3 weeks of summer, and more over, when winter comes and she wants to be inside or next summer rolls around, you'll have a basis for discipline. You have every right to discipline a child who's in your house/yard without their parents. If she's not following your rules, you have a duty to send her home. View this as your contribution toward socializing this child.

Edited to clarify


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> Some of her behavior is very typical of a 6 year old. That doesn't mean that you should tolerate it, but do know that the bossiness and dictating play is very typical. It doesn't mean that she's evil, *just that no one has taught her this behavior*. As the pp said, you have to be very direct with her. You can be direct and firm, but still polite to her. Some people have a signal that they put out (a flag, an open garage door) that means the kids can come over. I might suggest that.
> 
> ...


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Got interrupted in the middle of the sentence -- I meant "No one has taught her that this isn't acceptable" .

I do think that if a child is breaking rules in your house, you can (and should) send them home. We've had to do that with neighbors, and they've become much better playmates since then.


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## Klynne (Jan 1, 2007)

Thank you for the support! I'm the type that says things in a round about way and HOPES people get what I mean... after reading the posts this morning I was firm with her this morning when the calling/fence scaling started. I don't know if her family went out today but I haven't heard a peep from her this afternoon!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *midnightwriter*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


!!! no fence!! wow. I'm so thankful for our fence!!

My dd likes to play with her too. But I don't like the type of influence this girl has on DD and I won't let dd be introduced to "that" type of communication and behavior.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lilyka*
> 
> You have to be firm. A well placed sprinkler is not a bad idea. Also, cover up that hole. Your best defense is teaching your kids as well. My kids have a bedtime. The neighbor girl does not. Even during school. Neighbor girls solution...yell up to their window. My kids are forbidden to do this and they are responsible if they break the rules. i am also not above giving the neighborhood kids the what for. I say things like "go away it is family time." and "the girls cannot play right now. you need to go home." and "if you take our toys again I will call the police" on a regular basis. I stopped feeling bad a long time ago and it is generally easier to teach the kids than the parents anyway.


Do you live on the OTHER side of this family?? lol yeah, no bed time over there. Yelling my DD's name AFTER dd has gone to bed (I was VERY firm on this one and I think the older siblings heard and reprimanded her too so we're past that issue thankfully). My kids also know the rules, are not allowed to talk from the windows.

I'm covering up the whole. I posted the op at 1:30 am and considered covering it at that time but it seemed a little crazy to patch the fence at 2am.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> Report her to CPS because she's playing outside her house next door? Really? You think 6-year-olds can't handle being outside without a parent? That's fine for your kids, but IMO 6 is plenty old enough to not need parents continually watching them, and this is absolutely not a CPS issue.
> 
> OP, just set some boundaries. Kids this age are very literal, so say exactly what you mean. "We aren't playing with anyone today. You need to go home now." If you try to say it too politely and therefore don't say specifically and explicitly what you want, she won't understand. I have a friend who was having trouble with a next-door child who told the child she wasn't welcome to play in their yard. It's harsh, but the girls was hitting her kids, and would keep coming over to play. But telling her she wasn't welcome to play in their yard ended it.


Reporting to the CPS is not necessary. They have enough to deal with- this is not a problem for them.

The family is a good family, they just let the siblings take care of the youngest and unfortunately she needs more attention and love than the siblings know how to give. Her mom just started working out of home last year so there are transition issues for this girl too. Plus her English is bad and she doesn't receive instruction on socially acceptable ways of communicating with other kids. Am I making excuses for this girl?? No, I just see what might be driving her and that a gentle yet firm approach is what IS needed.

You're right. I just need to set clear boundaries and be firm with her. I won't bring this up with the parents until I've exhausted this approach.

Gosh, actually getting time to sit down and think this through felt good. With a colic-y newborn in the house thinking has practically gone out the window. :}


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## Klynne (Jan 1, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> "If you want to play with us, you need to be polite. If I hear you bossing people around or not listening to other kids' ideas, I'll send you home for an hour. If it happens again, you'll have to go home for the rest of the day."
> 
> ...


Great post. Thanks.


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## berry987 (Apr 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> Some of her behavior is very typical of a 6 year old. That doesn't mean that you should tolerate it, but do know that the bossiness and dictating play is very typical. It doesn't mean that she's evil, just that no one has taught her this behavior isn't acceptable. As the pp said, you have to be very direct with her. You can be direct and firm, but still polite to her. Some people have a signal that they put out (a flag, an open garage door) that means the kids can come over. I might suggest that.
> 
> ...


Totally agree. My kids run around the street unsupervised (they are 6 and 4) in the afternoon and there are some 6-8 year old girls on the block (mine are boys) who tend to be a bit bossy and do that exclusive/inclusive stuff. I thought it was just a pretty normal 6-8 year old girl thing. I intervene when necessary, but I also consider it a good learning experience for my kids. We talk about not having to play with kids who are bossy or rude, deciding for yourself what to do and not letting others tell you, etc. It seems like that behavior gets more and more common the older the kids get and teaching your DD to deal with it might be the best approach.

I can't believe someone suggested you call CPS. Now THAT would be an overreaction.


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## *bejeweled* (Jul 16, 2003)

This is laugh worthy.







You're joking right?

[quote name="philomom" If you want to hardball this, you could report her to CPS as a child who seems to be alone all day. Really, at her age, she should have some supervision.[/quote]


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## *bejeweled* (Jul 16, 2003)

"It's time for you to go home now." "Why?" "Because we need some family time. Go find something else to do."








Love this.


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## Klynne (Jan 1, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *berry987*
> 
> Totally agree. My kids run around the street unsupervised (they are 6 and 4) in the afternoon and there are some 6-8 year old girls on the block (mine are boys) who tend to be a bit bossy and do that exclusive/inclusive stuff. I thought it was just a pretty normal 6-8 year old girl thing. I intervene when necessary, but I also consider it a good learning experience for my kids. We talk about not having to play with kids who are bossy or rude, deciding for yourself what to do and not letting others tell you, etc. It seems like that behavior gets more and more common the older the kids get and teaching your DD to deal with it might be the best approach.
> 
> I can't believe someone suggested you call CPS. Now THAT would be an overreaction.


Yes. Dh and I are using this to teach DD these exact things. Dd is very social and like to play with everyone. I just hate the constant presence of this girl in our back yard.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by **bejeweled**
> 
> This is laugh worthy.
> 
> ...


No, I wasn't. A young child who is always unsupervised is a problem. Who knows what she could get into? Who knows why her parents turn her out of the house each day? Are they home? Are they inside doing drugs?


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Maybe they send her outside to play so she doesn't sit in front of the TV all day? Why jump to the worst possible conclusion?


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## Irishmommy (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> "Don't pass food to my kids over the fence." "Why?" "Because I don't want them messing up their appetites for the meals we have."
> 
> ...


Or: "Because I said so".


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> Got interrupted in the middle of the sentence -- I meant "No one has taught her that this isn't acceptable" .
> 
> I do think that if a child is breaking rules in your house, you can (and should) send them home. We've had to do that with neighbors, and they've become much better playmates since then.


Gotcha. I hope I didn't come across too badly. I'm having one of those days where everything I say seems to come out sounding more combative and belligerent than I mean it to. I agree with your post, overall.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> No, I wasn't. A young child who is always unsupervised is a problem. Who knows what she could get into? Who knows why her parents turn her out of the house each day? Are they home? Are they inside doing drugs?


Wow. Are you serious? A child playing outside a lot in the summer gets "are they inside doing drugs?" as a response? Almost every freaking kid in this complex plays outside all day, with minimal supervision, and none of the parents are on drugs.


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## midnightwriter (Jan 1, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klynne*
> 
> *The family is a good family, they just let the siblings take care of the youngest and unfortunately she needs more attention and love than the siblings know how to give.* Her mom just started working out of home last year so there are transition issues for this girl too. Plus her English is bad and she doesn't receive instruction on socially acceptable ways of communicating with other kids. Am I making excuses for this girl?? No, I just see what might be driving her and that a gentle yet firm approach is what IS needed.
> 
> ...


Identical situation to the bolded here. Only we have 6 year old TWINS







. These two kids came over to DH yesterdy and told him that our 3 yo, called them 'stupid'. DH replied with, 'She doesn't even speak English!" And the kids said, "Well, she meant it."

I told DH that he should have told them that even if she called them 'stupid', the only place where she could have learned it was from them. She is much more likely to overhear a rare but an emphatic 'f&ck'







(like the last time I burned my hand), but the word 'stupid' is just not used in our family and in the families we spend time with.

I don't think the child is to blame. She is lonely and tries to get attention in socially inappropriate ways, but how would she know any better at 6? 'Bossy' is very annoying, but it can also be called 'natural leader'. I'd just keep on setting firm boundaries, and since you only have 1 'feral' child, AND a fence, it could work fairly fast.

Good luck!


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## LynnS6 (Mar 30, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Gotcha. I hope I didn't come across too badly. I'm having one of those days where everything I say seems to come out sounding more combative and belligerent than I mean it to. I agree with your post, overall.


Nah... I've got thick skin. It's what I get for trying to watch Drama Music Camp and post at the same time!

OP: We had a very similar situation with a neighbor. Mom worked long shifts, teenage sisters 'babysitting', but were too self absorbed to really pay much attention to the 5-6-7 year old. She wasn't in any danger, was fed, but she was really really lonely and kind of clueless. One of the neighbors who had kids near her age (and older) ended up having her at their house a lot of the time. They were experienced parents with 4 kids, so they took it in stride.But because they're very experienced parents, they were very clear about boundaries and acceptable behavior. Even after the family moved out of the neighborhood, this girl loves to come back and stay with this family. (I don't think there are many kids her age in her new neighborhood.)

Now, I'm not saying that you need to do this (and given the fact that your younger child is 2, I might not recommend it). But know that it's not a hopeless situation. Kids can and do learn. And sometimes they really like you because of the boundaries you set!


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## Klynne (Jan 1, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Irishmommy*
> 
> Or: "Because I said so".


This is the response I had been using. I'm not sure she understood.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LynnS6*
> 
> Nah... I've got thick skin. It's what I get for trying to watch Drama Music Camp and post at the same time!
> 
> ...


An excellent point. Right now though, with a 5 week old, I really need to be able to send my kids out to play in the back yard (not that I need to defend myself but it's totally fenced in with 'locks on the side gates.) and know that they are safe and not being spoken to in a way that is unacceptable in our house, or passed HFCS foods that make them crazy, or stamped to the hilt with chemical inks, or.... That's the really exhausting part of this whole situation. And yeah, my kids have learned several previously unknown rude phrases from her that they now employ with each other when playing. bleh.

And just to clarify the whole CPS thing and lay it to rest - this girl is alone in her own back yard with the slider door open, not roaming the streets unattended (we live in a culdesac).


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## cameragirl (Apr 15, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *midnightwriter*
> 
> Identical situation to the bolded here. Only we have 6 year old TWINS
> 
> ...


We're having a very similar issue with the girl that lives behind us. When our shared fence blew down, our daughters became friends. The girl is older than ours, but has some learning delays, and acts about the same age. Her parents are gone most of the time, leaving teenage siblings to watch over her. Thing is, they really don't "watch" her. We built a little doorway into the fence, and I regret it now. At first things were okay, but then she started talking DD into taking things over to their house. When DD wants to go get them back after they are done playing, the girl plays dumb and pretends nothing ever went over there. She also gets DD in trouble, when normally we have very few behavioral issues. Usually it is something that leaves me shaking my head. Awhile ago we filled DD's sand box with the blue Crayola sand that she really wanted. It was there maybe a week when the girl decided to dump out one of my plants, and mix the potting soil in with the sand. It completely ruined the sand, because that sand just won't sift out like regular sand. She's really bossy, and mainly eats junk food, too. She has invited DD over for dinner multiple times, and I won't allow it because they always eat McDonald's for dinner. (Not exaggerating - it's every night.)

She has our home number because she is supposed to call before coming through the fence. She calls NONSTOP when she wants to play. We tell her if DD isn't home, that she can play at such-and-such time, but she'll keep calling. I've caught her multiple times walking back and forth, peering through the little holes between the planks in the fence. It is creepy when she does that, too. DD started calling the girl a "rotten egg" and feels bad that the girl gets her into trouble. DD is so loving and social though, and she feels bad excluding the girl when she can obviously see what we're doing in the backyard. She has started back to school and isn't around as much, but we're bothered by the situation. We live with my mom, who has provided child care through the city her whole career. Even she isn't sure how to handle the situation.


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## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I read the first page of posts, and my thoughts are this-the first thing i would do with this girl, is see the positive. She is a playmate to your kids, great! The next thing i would do, is set boundaries for her behavior if there are things that are bothering you (she is bossy, she brings in junk food). You tell her, if she wants to play with your kids, she needs to play fairly, use polite language, and not be bossy. 2nd, let her know that you dont encourage eating certain types of food in your house (we call them 'empty calories') and you wont allow that kind of food. You could tell her what kind of food she can bring if she want to share food (sharing is a good thing after all) I woudnt mind sharing my choice of food with her if she was playing well with my kids.

As for her asking 'why?' about getting off the fence. Its a reasonable question. My children ask why, and i give them an answer. In this case, you just tell her:youre worried about her safety, you feel uncomfortable with her bossiness towards your kids etc etc. I mean, just answer the question.

I go by the principle that treat others with respect and they will treat you the same.

If she cant abide by these boundaries, you have to let her know she is not welcome, and explain why (she might just ask).


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## Klynne (Jan 1, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cameragirl*
> 
> We're having a very similar issue with the girl that lives behind us. When our shared fence blew down, our daughters became friends. The girl is older than ours, but has some learning delays, and acts about the same age. Her parents are gone most of the time, leaving teenage siblings to watch over her. Thing is, they really don't "watch" her. We built a little doorway into the fence, and I regret it now. At first things were okay, but then she started talking DD into taking things over to their house. When DD wants to go get them back after they are done playing, the girl plays dumb and pretends nothing ever went over there. *She also gets DD in trouble, when normally we have very few behavioral issues. Usually it is something that leaves me shaking my head.* Awhile ago we filled DD's sand box with the blue Crayola sand that she really wanted. It was there maybe a week when the girl decided to dump out one of my plants, and mix the potting soil in with the sand. It completely ruined the sand, because that sand just won't sift out like regular sand. She's really bossy, and mainly eats junk food, too. She has invited DD over for dinner multiple times, and I won't allow it because they always eat McDonald's for dinner. (Not exaggerating - it's every night.)
> 
> She has our home number because she is supposed to call before coming through the fence. She calls NONSTOP when she wants to play. We tell her if DD isn't home, that she can play at such-and-such time, but she'll keep calling. I've caught her multiple times walking back and forth, peering through the little holes between the planks in the fence. It is creepy when she does that, too. DD started calling the girl a "rotten egg" and feels bad that the girl gets her into trouble. DD is so loving and social though, and she feels bad excluding the girl when she can obviously see what we're doing in the backyard. She has started back to school and isn't around as much, but we're bothered by the situation. We live with my mom, who has provided child care through the city her whole career. Even she isn't sure how to handle the situation.


*This*.

Wow, your situation does sound difficult. Have you tried talking to the parents? I think I would do that, but then again I don't know what kind of neighbors they are, and if they're "that type" it may cause more trouble in the end...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *contactmaya*
> 
> I read the first page of posts, and my thoughts are this-the first thing i would do with this girl, is see the positive. She is a playmate to your kids, great! The next thing i would do, is set boundaries for her behavior if there are things that are bothering you (she is bossy, she brings in junk food). You tell her, if she wants to play with your kids, she needs to play fairly, use polite language, and not be bossy. 2nd, let her know that you dont encourage eating certain types of food in your house (we call them 'empty calories') and you wont allow that kind of food. You could tell her what kind of food she can bring if she want to share food (sharing is a good thing after all) I woudnt mind sharing my choice of food with her if she was playing well with my kids.
> 
> ...


I can see some of the positive. In my OP I was extremely frustrated. Since then I've been implementing some of the suggestions given and life in our garden is better, still annoying - but better. My kids are younger and can't just play free with this girl. I tell her what is acceptable in our house she forgets constantly, I have to (and want to) be there when they are playing to monitor what is being said. Also they play through the fence a lot. This is just annoying because it distracts dd and ds from getting into good play with each other. (they're usually very imaginative together and I like to encourage that.)

I believe her passing junk through the fence is more to make an impression on DD, DD gets VERY excited when she's given junk food.


----------



## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klynne*
> 
> This is the response I had been using. I'm not sure she understood.
> 
> ...


I think you need to focus on teaching your kids to follow the rules even when faced with temptation. Kids pick up a lot of stuff from each other and they have to learn to filter that out and follow the rules even when someone has more freedom than they do and is tempting them with that freedom. With school starting soon it is probably good to help your dd learn how to navigate these differences now. It would also be a good idea to teach her some comeback phrases for the manipulation that goes on between young children. Kids start using the birthdays and friendships as a way to manipulate each other starting in preschool and some continue it for years. I found that it really helped my dd feel more confident handling these things when she went in prepared to handle them. Children's friendships are hard once they are too old to have their mom behind them making sure everything is 100% appropriate and the more prepared you can get her the better imo.


----------



## *bejeweled* (Jul 16, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Wow. Are you serious? A child playing outside a lot in the summer gets "are they inside doing drugs?" as a response? Almost every freaking kid in this complex plays outside all day, with minimal supervision, and none of the parents are on drugs.


Same here. Thank Goodness we don't have any neighbors that have CPS on speed dial.


----------



## cameragirl (Apr 15, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klynne*
> 
> *This*.
> 
> Wow, your situation does sound difficult. Have you tried talking to the parents? I think I would do that, but then again I don't know what kind of neighbors they are, and if they're "that type" it may cause more trouble in the end...


The parents are around so infrequently and at such strange hours that we couldn't catch them if we wanted to. They're the type of people that helped pay for the fence, but left us to do all of the labor. They were perfectly capable of helping carry boards or dig post holes, but they didn't seem to mind us doing it all. I'm not sure if talking to them would help or not. Luckily the rest of the neighbors are easier to deal with. We have an agreement to just send the kid/s home if there is an issue, and can talk to the parents if we need to. It rarely comes to that, though.

I hope you're able to work out the situation in the OP. Sometimes dealing with these oddball situations can be tough.


----------



## raksmama (Feb 20, 2005)

Am I the only one who feels sorry for this little girl?

It sounds like she is neglected and loney.

OP don't got me wrong I totally understand where you are coming from and I don't think you have to let this little girl casue problems in your family,however reading this my heart goes out to her.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Yes most of the time these kids really are just hanging around looking for friends to fill their time. They are lonely. And it is sad. But it's hard as a parent to take on other peoples kids all the time. I shared our experience but the one I should really have shared is the neighbor girl who gave us lice and spent way to many days and holidays at our house while her mom slept next door. Since her mom was dealing with depression and my husband deals with depression he was a stickler for making sure the little girl felt welcome at all times in our home. It drove me nuts on thanksgiving and broke my heart on christmas morning. She had a lot of behavioral problems and had to be held back in first grade for reading. I washed the lice out of her hair and fed her numerous dinners. Sometimes it's hard to deal with other peoples kids. But I guess we really do need to remember it takes a village. And that means that if we want a positive place for our children to grow they need to see that we are concerned about the other little flowers growing near by. They need to be tended to as well.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jalilah*
> 
> Am I the only one who feels sorry for this little girl?
> 
> ...


----------



## LROM (Sep 10, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klynne*
> 
> And just to clarify the whole CPS thing and lay it to rest - this girl is alone in her own back yard with the slider door open, not roaming the streets unattended (we live in a culdesac).


So what I'm still not getting is, is there anyone home when she's outside? I agree that initially I wouldn't have thought to call CPS, but I'm wondering if her parents (or any adult) is home when she's outside, have you tried going over at the time she's doing some of these things (like instigating your child to be mean, passing food, or being bossy) and rung the bell and explained what was going on in a nice but serious way and that you'd like her to stop?

I'm all for trying to work directly with the child (and sounds like when you did get firm with her, she understood and adjusted at least that afternoon), but if an adult is home when she's doing these things and she isn't stopping, how much have you already tried to engage them?

And then if there is NOT an adult home (and I don't mean older siblings, unless they're like 16 and older), then that IS an issue. Not saying a call to CPS is necessary, but a 6 yr old supervised (or, in this case, not supervised) by a 15 or under sibling/child is not appropriate for hours and hours day after day. Especially when this child clearly needs more engagement and attention. NOT saying CPS is the answer... but I am saying that it's what CPS calls "inadequate supervision" because it's clear this child needs more than she's getting.

Other 6 yr olds might do fine in the yard for hours day after day with an appropriately aged sibling inside, even if there isn't constant supervision. But this child is apparently not doing fine with it, so to me that's why it's legitimate to ask if any adults are home, and if not, how old are the kids who are home, and if the child is indeed alone for hours, then that IS a CPS call.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

This thread is sad.

A 6 year old playing outside in her own backyard and wanting to play with the neighbor kid is CPS worthy? Good God, my neighbor's kids are out at all hours roaming our little neighborhood (not near the road or anything) and the idea that the parents are inside doing drugs never crossed my mind. I'm a little shocked. I certainly hope no one thinks I'm in the house doing drugs while my 9 and 5 year olds are outside in my backyard. I think all kids need a little unsupervised time outside (after a certain age, I'm not talking about babies and toddlers here), but that's just me.

I'd set some boundaries, you've gotten good advice on that. Let them play together, not all the time, but a couple hours a day probably won't hurt. If there are behaviors you don't want your child doing, don't allow them. But you can't keep her from all children all the time, she has to learn how to deal with kids doing things that you don't agree with.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

"Inadequate supervision" in the CPS sense means "unsafe", not "annoying to neighbors." There is no indication that the child is left home without parents at home, so I don't know where you're getting that.


----------



## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> "Inadequate supervision" in the CPS sense means "unsafe", not "annoying to neighbors." There is no indication that the child is left home without parents at home, so I don't know where you're getting that.


Standing on a fence day after day is safe? How tall is the fence? Why don't her parents call her inside once in a while to give snacks, apply sunscreen or give her lunch?

Stormbride... I wouldn't feel safe letting my kids wander an entire apartment complex.... unless it was quite small of a complex and I knew most of the neighbors. Who knows whose apartment they could go into or how long a time could pass before someone might consider them missing?


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## childsplay (Sep 4, 2007)

Honestly, when I read your title OP, I was expecting you to describe a raggedy, matted hair, filthy child who wanders out of the woods on a regular basis scavenging for food through your compost bin, and jabbers incoherently due to being raised by wolves or oppossums or something. Not a well fed kid with a good roof over her head who just happens to annoy the heck out of you.

The child you're describing is certainly not feral, just annoying and mostly unsupervised.

I'd just be blunt with her "go away now please, we're busy" or "get off the fence before you break your leg" if she asks why, just say "because that's the rule" ( I use the "because that's the rule" a lot, it works here : )


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## lookatreestar (Apr 14, 2008)

we had a neighbor kid like this, he loved being part of our family. my mom was pretty tough though and didn't put up with any of his BS (at home he was allowed to watch anything, no bed time, eat anything, say anything etc). he is a young adult now and has long since moved away. he still pops in and stays connected with our family. it taught me a lot of great things about having boundaries (i was older, he was my kid sisters age).


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## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

"Because that's the rule"....lurve it









Quote:
Originally Posted by *midnightwriter* As you have only one child to deal with, I'd be just firm with her, over and over again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *lilyka* You have to be firm.


> i am also not above giving the neighborhood kids the what for. I say things like "go away it is family time." and "the girls cannot play right now. you need to go home." and "if you take our toys again I will call the police" on a regular basis. I stopped feeling bad a long time ago and it is generally easier to teach the kids than the parents anyway.


Quote:



> Originally Posted by *mamazee* Kids this age are very literal, so say exactly what you mean. "We aren't playing with anyone today. You need to go home now." If you try to say it too politely and therefore don't say specifically and explicitly what you want, she won't understand.


Quote:



> Originally Posted by *LynnS6* "If you want to play with us, you need to be polite. If I hear you bossing people around or not listening to other kids' ideas, I'll send you home for an hour. If it happens again, you'll have to go home for the rest of the day."
> 
> "If my kids do something they're not supposed to do while you're here, you'll have to go home for an hour, because they need to take a break from playing with friends when they break the rules. If it happens again, we'll need a time out for for the rest of the morning/afternoon."
> 
> ...


ALL of the above. I bolded what I would change, in the last post.

DS is 10 now, but I realized a long time ago that kids ARE very literal, and they never take offense if we are direct with them. They just don't get sublety at all.

I couldn't in a million years imagine saying to an adult "You need to go home now", but I wouldn't hesitate to say it to a kid! They usually just shrug and go "OK".

My best friend's DD just loves to open my fridge and check out what's in there. I call her on it all the time, "L, it's rude to open people's fridges. Even if we're best friends. You need to ask first".

My other friend's dd is always going in my cabinets, fridge, opening doors. We're not as good friends with these people and I will still say "It's rude to check out other people's things", or "Get out of my cabinets". I know she's just curious, but people have to know it's very impolite!

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *midnightwriter* Bossy' is very annoying, but it can also be called 'natural leader'.


Oh, HELL no. Sorry for the vehement disagreement, nothing against you. But ds and I had a roommate whose youngest child was VERY bossy. Rude bossy. There's a huge difference between bossy and natural leader. Her mom chose to call her "natural leader" too. She never saw this kid perched on the back of the couch, in a very demanding voice, barking to all the other kids, "now YOU, stand over there...and YOU, do this, and YOU..." and having a huge hissy fit if they didn't obey. I had a friend over, the mom wasn't home, and my friend and I just looked at each other, goggle-eyed. Serious "WOW" moment, this kid.

I would be very, very careful about the CPS thing. Where I live, people are way too hot on the button to call. Ain't no dang village here, which is a shame, because it's known for being a very crunchy area. I know far too many people who have been called on-- one because she was 15 minutes late picking her dd up from afterschool care. One because she had a babysitter to watch her 3 while she took a nap-- and the babysitter fell asleep too, and the 2yo got out by himself and was found up the street. By a cop. One because she was camping for a week at a gathering and someone didn't like her style of parenting and decided she was abusive. Those people had been called on themselves, a year prior! Compassion? You'd think, huh?

I wanted to call on a neighbor once, because even though the young parents were hard working and tried, they had the mom's brother to watch their 4 young ones while they worked. The brother was a crack head and had tons of girls over partying while he "watched" the kids-- the two oldest were at my house a lot because it was healthier and they had attention. The older one, about 4yo, was like "I know what drugs is". Lovely.

My landlord kept me from it, because she said she herself had been called on when she was a child, and separated from her family for a time, and it was devastating. She said you better be damn sure it's a harmful situation before you do. So I didn't. Things turned out for the best, later, because the brother ended up being arrested for drugs after all. But anyway.


----------



## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I don't know why you're assuming she never eats or has sunscreen applied, although there are a variety of opinions on how much and how often children should wear sunscreen. And standing on a fence is nothing new, kids have done that for years, and it doesn't sound particularly unsafe.


----------



## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> Yep, the feral unwatched child is an issue. You will have to spend some time away from your own home or march over and have a dreaded parent chat with the child's parental unit. The meanness and the junk food must stop! And being perched on a fence is a safety issue.. I'd tell her to get down every time I saw her there.
> 
> If you want to hardball this, you could report her to CPS as a child who seems to be alone all day. Really, at her age, she should have some supervision.


CPS? why not start with "talk to the parents". Also, I doubt CPS would care - she has access to food and is in her own back yard!


----------



## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamazee*
> 
> I don't know why you're assuming she never eats or has sunscreen applied, although there are a variety of opinions on how much and how often children should wear sunscreen. And standing on a fence is nothing new, kids have done that for years, and it doesn't sound particularly unsafe.


She obviously eats because she is passing "junk" food to the op's kids


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## Klynne (Jan 1, 2007)

(nak) ^







good point. Yes, she eats and she's supervised. I don't care if she has sunscreen on, it's not my problem. And what kid wouldn't sit on the fence if they could? (Dd really wishes she could climb the fence!). The view is SO much better!  This is not a cps case. Period.

I've received fantastic advice here. Thank you every one! After I started setting boundaries the situation became much better. I've been firm yet gracious with her daily. I'm still annoyed by our lack of privacy some days but I believe we're on the right track.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jalilah*
> 
> Am I the only one who feels sorry for this little girl?
> 
> ...


No, Dh and I feel sorry for her. It doesn't change how annoyed we are but I do understand where she is coming from. She wants to play with a girl her age. I get that. I posted a post about seeing the flip side of this situation on page 2.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *childsplay*
> 
> Honestly, when I read your title OP, I was expecting you to describe a raggedy, matted hair, filthy child who wanders out of the woods on a regular basis scavenging for food through your compost bin, and jabbers incoherently due to being raised by wolves or oppossums or something. Not a well fed kid with a good roof over her head who just happens to annoy the heck out of you.
> 
> The child you're describing is certainly not feral, just annoying and mostly unsupervised.


Hence my use of parenthesis. In my defense, she is ferel in my dreams.... bad joke, I know.


----------



## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> Standing on a fence day after day is safe? How tall is the fence? Why don't her parents call her inside once in a while to give snacks, apply sunscreen or give her lunch?
> 
> Stormbride... I wouldn't feel safe letting my kids wander an entire apartment complex.... unless it was quite small of a complex and I knew most of the neighbors. Who knows whose apartment they could go into or how long a time could pass before someone might consider them missing?


1. I don't know nay kid who hasn't climbed a fence.

2. She eats b/c she's passing the OP's kid food through the fence.

3. How do you know she's not wearing sunscreen?

Do you just look for threads in which you can rag on other parents? From your recent posting it really seems that you're wearing your judegey pants a lot.


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## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

Judgey pants... GOOD ONE! So using it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> 1. I don't know nay kid who hasn't climbed a fence.
> 
> ...


----------



## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klynne* I've received fantastic advice here. Thank you every one! After I started setting boundaries the situation became much better.


YAY!







See, though? Firm. Firm. Firm. It's so funny-- when ds was very little, I heard that it's a BAD idea to say "please" to kids when you want them to do something. For the same reason. They assume, if you say please, that they have an option to say no. And here we are, trying to be nice and polite-- polite doesn't fly with littles. Firm does. Polite flies as they get older, but not if you want them to do something and no isn't an option. It SO is counter-intuitive, to me, not to say "please" and order them about, but it works.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693* From your recent posting it really seems that you're wearing your judegey pants a lot.


Judgey pants









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka* Judgey pants... GOOD ONE! So using it.


----------



## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> Do you just look for threads in which you can rag on other parents? From your recent posting it really seems that you're wearing your judegey pants a lot.


No, but if you mean the thread in which you were caring for your child with a hangover.. I stand by what I said.

And name calling is not allowed on Mothering.. nor is harassment.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Philomom, you never answered. How do you know she's not getting sunscreened? How is fence climbing dangerous? Asking questions is not harassment. And you are judging people. I pointed out a behavior, not name called.


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## tjjazzy (Jan 18, 2007)

wow. here you just get charged extra for being late to pick up your kid from after school care!! to call CPS is really overreacting!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maiasaura*
> 
> I know far too many people who have been called on-- one because she was 15 minutes late picking her dd up from afterschool care.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Jumping in very late. I meant to read this thread a while ago but forgot about it. I've been dealing with a similar situation for about 4 years now. I was so excited when we moved into this house and there was a boy right next door almost the exact same age as my 7yo, who was 3.5 when we moved here. He quickly became my ds' best friend. At first, I gave the boy a lot of leeway because he was only 3 or 4 but as time has gone by his behavior has gotten worse. I have tried and tried over the years to get him to behave when he's playing with my son but he just doesn't get it. Initially, the boy was just very rambunctious and careless, within normal for a 3-4 year old, but now at almost 8 he has become sneaky and dishonest and a bully. I finally have had enough and told my son he couldn't play with the boy anymore. If they are playing with a group of kids in the neighborhood, my son can play with the group but he is not allowed to play alone with this boy anymore. I just can't take my son coming to me several times a day crying and upset over something mean this boy has done.

I was friends with his mom but I think that's over. The last time we talked I tried to tell her the problems with her son but she wouldn't listen. She just kept saying, "Not my son," and she sounded pretty upset. After being initially very angry, telling me I was the worst mom ever, he hated me and I ruined his life, things have been so much more pleasant around here. Surprisingly, my son hasn't once asked to play with the boy or said anything about since that first day. Maybe he knew it wasn't a good relationship but needed me to end it for him.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

OP, update us how you handled this!


----------



## swede (Nov 21, 2010)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> Philomom, you never answered. How do you know she's not getting sunscreened? How is fence climbing dangerous? Asking questions is not harassment. And you are judging people. I pointed out a behavior, not name called.


Exactly. She waid you were wearing judgey pants, not that you 'are' judgey pants. I'd love to know the answers to the questions, too!


----------



## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philomom*
> 
> Standing on a fence day after day is safe? How tall is the fence? Why don't her parents call her inside once in a while to give snacks, apply sunscreen or give her lunch?
> 
> Stormbride... I wouldn't feel safe letting my kids wander an entire apartment complex.... unless it was quite small of a complex and I knew most of the neighbors. Who knows whose apartment they could go into or how long a time could pass before someone might consider them missing?


This isn't an apartment complex. It's a townhouse complex (more like what most places call "row houses", I think). I can only think of one child in the whole complex who actually goes into anyone else's home without checking with their parents first, though - they just run around outside.


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## Klynne (Jan 1, 2007)

Update -

The good: I covered the knot whole and am loving the lack of action at the fence now

The bad and ugly: They got a new trampoline. Bleh. Our yard is higher than theirs so if the kids are standing on the patio they can look over the fence and down on the neighbors house/yard. Their trampoline was situated right on the other side of our house, close to the fence and about '15--'20 feet from their house. The neighbor girl (NG) could jump/stand on the trampoline and look over the fence to our patio/house. Eliminating the need to climb the fence. Well the trampoline broke and we were so happy about that - until the fence climbing started. FINALLY, JUST when I got her off the fence they bought a new trampoline!! NG's on it the whole day - in her yard not hanging over the fence. My hands are tied. I feel like one of the kids when they whine to the other "stop looking at me!" :lol:

This evening NG threw an OPEN bottle of Elmers school glue (the large one) over the fence while I was in the house doing dishes after dinner. I poked my head out the slider to check on the kids and noticed DS was covered in glue - glue that had oozed out onto the path by the fence. I marched the bottle and a couple other things she had throw over or shoved though (the hole is now covered) the fence BACK to her house and spoke with her dad. I think he got what I said because she was no where near the fence the rest of the evening.

I'm will be speaking with NG's mom on Monday (she has Monday's off). In short I'm going to explain to her our rules for DD; DD can play at their house when the parents are home, NG can play at our house - but they can't play through the fence. DD is not allowed to call for NG across the fence and that we'd like it very much if NG stopped calling for dd over the fence. They are welcome to call us if NG want's to play and we will call them if DD wants to play.

What do you all think?

We live in a great neighborhood but I'm almost positive our next house will be in the country...


----------



## limabean (Aug 31, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klynne*
> I marched the bottle and a couple other things she had throw over or shoved though (the hole is now covered) the fence BACK to her house and spoke with her dad. I think he got what I said because she was no where near the fence the rest of the evening.
> 
> I'm will be speaking with NG's mom on Monday (she has Monday's off). In short I'm going to explain to her our rules for DD; DD can play at their house when the parents are home, NG can play at our house - but they can't play through the fence. DD is not allowed to call for NG across the fence and that we'd like it very much if NG stopped calling for dd over the fence. They are welcome to call us if NG want's to play and we will call them if DD wants to play.


Sounds like a great plan, and good for you for going and speaking with the dad in the moment.

How tall is your fence? It seems like it must be rather short if your kids can see over it, unless your patio is really elevated. Maybe you could add a wide piece of lattice across the top to give it some more height without too much expense?


----------



## Klynne (Jan 1, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *limabean*
> 
> Sounds like a great plan, and good for you for going and speaking with the dad in the moment.
> 
> How tall is your fence? It seems like it must be rather short if your kids can see over it, unless your patio is really elevated. Maybe you could add a wide piece of lattice across the top to give it some more height without too much expense?


It's about 6', our patio is elevated on top of the fact that the hill is sloped.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I don't think you need to speak to both mom and dad unless you are telling mom something you didn't already tell the dad. I think maybe a letter would be better because you can lay everything out, calm down and reword it, then walk it over if you still feel the need to. If a neighbor came to me concerned because my child talks to them, shares with them, and plays in our yard on our trampoline all day I would probably get very defensive and I can't see that type of conversation going well. I am not normally a defensive person but I am when it comes to my child. In a situation like that you may say some things you shouldn't or you may get flat out ignored.

With a letter you can say what you need to say, give the reasons behind what you are saying without getting interrupted by the need to defend your point of view, then the person reading it has time to get mad then cool down and think about your point of view and hopefully take that into consideration. The risk you run with a face to face conversation over what some people would view as mostly petty issues is that you will not get to give your point of view and you will have created an enemy who does even less to redirect her child just to shove her ability to let her child run free in her back yard in your face.


----------



## contactmaya (Feb 21, 2006)

I think you're handling it well.


----------



## Imakcerka (Jul 26, 2011)

I still wish you had used the sprinkler... but that's just me and I'm not always nice.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imakcerka*
> 
> I still wish you had used the sprinkler... but that's just me and I'm not always nice.


A sprinkler might actually backfire and attract the child to the fence even more. Most kids love running through a sprinkler on a hot summer day. Tons of fun!


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## isisreturning (Jul 16, 2007)

Very interesting thread. I just wanted to pipe in as a parent of a kid who has probably annoyed the neighbors: Please, please, please speak directly to the child about what they are doing incorrectly. I have a spirited, BOSSY boy, and I talk with my DS ALL.THE.TIME to coach him on social skills - "people would think that's rude if you do that," "that is unacceptable because XYZ," "it's okay to be creative and have ideas but you don't get to boss around other kids," etc.

I'm very literal with him about these things and I don't beat around the bush because while I value him as an individual and adore a lot of his spirited traits, I also want him to understand social norms and conform to them in a way that allows other people to feel comfortable, safe and honored.

He came out of the womb this way. His natural inclinations towards entitlement and bossiness and doing whatever the heck he wants have never been encouraged or allowed. We are very involved with him, very connected, spend tons of time around him, etc. He's just still learning and developing.

Ok, enough about my DS - the point I really want to make is: he responds SO WELL to other grown-ups correcting him. We can work with him for months on something, and then another adult will say some version of "knock it off, you're being inappropriate," and he is chastened and chagrined, and the behavior changes. And he isn't tender-hearted or devastated by the correction. He's simply, "oh, somebody else agrees with my parents on this. Ok, I guess I better knock it off, then."

It sounds like talking directly with the neighbor child has already been helpful - I encourage you to keep it up.


----------



## Maiasaura (Aug 12, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *isisreturning* He came out of the womb this way. His natural inclinations towards entitlement and bossiness and doing whatever the heck he wants have never been encouraged or allowed. We are very involved with him, very connected, spend tons of time around him, etc. He's just still learning and developing.


OMG, are you raising my child?







Only mine's 10-- same kid, I swear! And yes, I'm on him ALL.THE.TIME. working with him on appropriate behavior. It's so hard. And he doesn't even respond to other adults the way yours does. He just goes trip-happy along on his own little path, which, unfortunately right now, involves mentioning private parts and potty humor and words that a younger kid wouldn't know, like "balls" and "nuts" and other words....and he does.not.get mixed company or girls or older people. He'd probably blurt in church







Sigh.


----------



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *isisreturning*
> 
> Please, please, please speak directly to the child about what they are doing incorrectly.


I have 2 kids like this, so far, my first and my third so I know that it can be temperament more than anything the parents are or are not doing.

However, some children don't respond to anyone talking to them. The neighbor boy I have been dealing with for 4 years now never responded to anything I said to him. He just puts his head down and makes a pouty face until I'm finished talking and then he runs off and tries to get away with whatever it was when I'm not looking. He even encourages my children to lie to me and calls them tattle tales when they tell me what's going on. I know his parents pretty well so I'm fairly confident that behavior is because of the way his parents treat him. He is afraid of getting in trouble but has not really been told or taught decent social behavior at home.

Anyway, not much you can do with a child like that except tell him to stay away.


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## Tonia Starr (May 14, 2011)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by **bejeweled**
> 
> This is laugh worthy.
> 
> ...


Actually, MY situation required a call to CPS. There was no fence and 4 unsupervised kids all day ever day who would walk right into my house, take toys off our porch, take bikes out of the yard, steal food, and had all around zero respect for my rules. I am talking about ages 2,4,6 and 8 with never a glimpse of a p[arent. I knew for a fact both parents were inside either drinking or sleeping as the kids would often tell me so or I would hear the fighting. I DID call CPS. But this situation doesnt really seem as extreme. Not even close. Just some really clear rules set in firm ground shuld help. An above post mentioned its easier to train the kids than the parents oftentimes. So true.[/QUOTE]


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