# Kate Hudson...baby too big???



## pegmom (Nov 19, 2002)

So, I was reading some mag in the supermarket that Kate Hudson--Goldie Hawn's daughter--had her baby a few weeks ago via c-section because the baby was too big for her body. He weighed 8lbs.11ozs. The doctors told her that they needed to do a c-section because they feared the baby was growing too big for her small frame and estimated that it weighed close to 9lbs. Is this possible to determine this before labor even begins. My ds was 8lbs11ozs and I am 5'2", 105lbs. I had a vaginal delivery after pushing for 4hrs. I am just curious if this is a widespread problem--too big babies for women who are supposedly too small. When and how can you tell if this is an issue?


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

As someone who had a 5# baby and a near 10# I can tell you frfom experiance. It makes no difference. Thier heads were the same size, tiher shoulders had to have been close. My 10 pounder had two more chins than my 5# baby buit fat is squishy. Dr. do c-secs on small women because they fear they thier might be shoulder dystocia and they have no idea how to deal with it Also i think a lot of Dr.s really think the majority of women are just looking for a good excuse to have a c-section rather than give birth. unfortunately I think they may not be too far off the mark.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

This is horribly sad


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## seven_lux (Jun 13, 2003)

Quote:

I am just curious if this is a widespread problem--too big babies for women who are supposedly too small. When and how can you tell if this is an issue?

The widespread problem is doctors, not us.


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## momto l&a (Jul 31, 2002)

Do I hear $$'s? Or maybe the doc was going on vacation and wanted to get that birth outa the way so used the size as an excuse.

Or maybe she didnt want to get streched out down there like whoever is on with Regis.

With my first I went to a Dr for my first prenatal and when she heard I wanted to do a HB told me I was to small, the baby would never fit.:LOL














: When I may be tiny framed but let me tell you the babes practically fall out of me. The peri is the only thing to small, tears each time.


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## roxy (Jun 16, 2006)

My best friend i 4 ft. 10.5 in., and her ideal weight is 104. Her first baby was a 26 weeker- 1lb.15oz.(vag.) Number two was 6lb12oz, also vag. Number three was to be attended by a CNM in a hospital. When she reached her DD, they started the standard crap, even though she had a "proven pelvis". The ultrasound showed an eight pound baby, so the OB "allowed" the MW to continue care. Her son was born 9 days past the DD, and weighed 9lb5oz. Labor was 3 hours total, but during pushing, she felt progress stop. Suatting for pushing brought him out. Kate Hudson did not need a csec.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I toture myself by watching A Baby Story sometimes, and I can't tell you how many times the mom has a scheduled c-section "because the baby is too big." Not only is that in and of itself a load of crap, but more often than not the baby that the doctors were sure was going to be at least 10lbs comes out being just around 8lbs or so. Umm, don't the parents then kind of question being told that the mom had to have abdominal surgery? It really drives me crazy.


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## doulamomvicki (Nov 4, 2003)

I am going to let everyone in on a secret. When I worked in L&D we had quite a few local celebrity types deliver at our hosp. They would have their ob deliver the baby and then the plastic surgeon would step in to tip, tuck and close. It was all planned. Not one of these moms publically would say they had scheduled c/s for that reason, it was always "the baby was too big" or "I tried but was not progressing" and so on. My guess is that was the real reason for Kate's c/s.


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Yeah I read the article in In Touch magazine and was SO PISSED at the big deal they made about "Kate's emergency c-section!!"
And Ryder was a WHOPPING 8 lb. 11 ounces!







:
I'm 5'0", pre preg weight is 105 and I gave birth to an 8 lb 12 oz baby and a 9 lb. 1 oz. baby with no problem at all.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR








And in the same issue, they mentioned Debra Messing's belly is getting big and they speculated her baby would be born sooner than expected.







What does one have to do with the other?
And..they showed a picture of Courteney Cox's little teeny buldge and they're asking about twins.
What is wrong with these people?!?!?!?!


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## Ms.Doula (Apr 3, 2003)

Tabloids......... can't help but laugh at em really..... :LOL


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

In Touch isn't a tabloid. It's a for-real magazine.


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## Missgrl (Nov 18, 2001)

Don't you guys know that celebrities are more important than us? Their pregnancies are always more important and their births are way more important. They have bigger, better babies than us and how they recovery is more serious than ours.
We just don't matter in this world!







:







:







:


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Goldie Hawn had all three of her children by Caesarean Section in 1976, 1978, and 198?.

I remember reading about the doctors telling Goldie that her babies were too big.

Are Caesarean Sections hereditary(?)









I guess they had the same inept doctor.










:LOL


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Medical Studies and statistics prove that large babies are the main cause of obstetrical distress in doctors.


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## anothermama (Nov 11, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by applejuice_
*Medical Studies and statistics prove that large babies are the main cause of obstetrical distress in doctors.







*
*chuckle*....too funny.

IN re: to Courtney Cox....I'm *guessing* there will be specualtion about multips because she's been using fertility treatments. Not sure what they've been doing, but know they've made it public they've been using treatments and have had a hard time concieving.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Fame and $ can't buy everything;

that includes critical thinking and intelligence.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

:abit







T, but
RE: baby's weight

All of you L&D nurses: how often are those scales in the delivery room calibrated?

Do doctors tell you to lie about the weight to gain and/or confirm the "lie" that the baby is too big for a vaginal delivery?

I do not expect any response here, but I do recall weighing my baby brother, a moose, born at home when I was 14 in 1968. He kept moving, and the scale, standard at the time. kept moving, and I weighed him with my Father and finally decided that he was eight lbs eleven ounces.

I know everything is computerized now, but those cold rooms do something to the machinery and to the airpressure.

With all of mine born at home, I know that those tired midwives were not all very careful about being precise with the weight. My youngest was weighed with a fishing scale. In three days at the pediatrician's office, there was a marked difference.


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## pumpkinhead (Sep 15, 2003)

A very dear friend of mine who is 5'5- 5'6 and about 115-120 lbs (give or take) gave birth VAGINALLY to a beautiful 11lb (yes I meant to type 11) 5oz baby boy! She had barely a tear and has a very small frame. 8lbs, 11oz? Puhleeze, amateur!







Doctors can be idiots sometimes.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

Are Caesarean Sections hereditary(?)
Actually, if you were born that way it increases the chance that your babies will be. Not for any medical reason, of course, but because that's what your mom will tell you about birth (and rarely will they say anything bad about the procedure) so that's what you will come away with. Then when you're actually there, right in the middle of the hardest part, you'll remember there is a way out.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

Soon, we'll be like Brazil, where the middle to upper middle class and rich choose cesarean birth to protect their private parts (!) while only the POOR have those icky vaginal births.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

My point exactly, Greaseball.

Women learn about birth from their mothers.

After over a century of having babies in institutions, most women have no concept of natural birth in their families.


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## Ms.Doula (Apr 3, 2003)

> Fame and $ can't buy everything;
> 
> HAHAHAHAHA!! Applejuice-Your hilarious!!! :LOL :LOL :LOL
> 
> ...


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

My grandmother was 5'4" and weighed about 115 pounds when she delivered her first child (my uncle). He was 9 lbs, 10 oz, I believe. She didn't tear, and she pushed him out in about 5 minutes after maybe half an hour of labor. After delivery, she went right back to her pre-pregnancy weight of about 94 pounds.

I am 5'1" with a very large frame and had a great deal of difficulty pushing out a 7 lb 7 oz baby. He was actually born with a vacuum thingy. You can't really tell by size of the outside, it has to do with the space in the middle of your pelvis. So while it's unlikely, it is possible that the baby was too big for her to push out. I think that the quickie tummy-tuck is more likely, though. How else do you explain the way celbrity moms don't seem to have a post-partum chubby period like the rest of us?


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## Victorian (Jan 2, 2003)

Quote:

_And in the same issue, they mentioned Debra Messing's belly is getting big and they speculated her baby would be born sooner than expected.







What does one have to do with the other?
[/B]_
_
_
_
I was watching Ellen the other day, and Debra Messsing was on. She was showing off her beautiful belly, and Ellen asked when she was having the baby. She said that they doctor said that the baby will be done --- (can't remember the date). Ellen said something like "you can just schedule the birth now right" and Debra said no, no, no! Then Ellen asked if it was a boy or a girl and Debra said I don't know, and I don't want to know!

I was like YAAAAA!_


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## DreamsInDigital (Sep 18, 2003)

Schedule the birth?!?!?! Where do people come up with this?


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## Ms.Doula (Apr 3, 2003)

From OBGYNs of course.....







:

(arent they gods afterall???)


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## ComaWhite (Mar 13, 2003)

I think the "baby is too big" excuse is bull..


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

"You can't really tell by size of the outside, it has to do with the space in the middle of your pelvis."

Unless the pelvis is deformed, it has a lot more to do with the management of the pushing phase. For instance, squatting opens up the pelvic outlet by 30%. Honestly, I would be surprised if Kate Hudson _could_ push out a nine-pound baby, given typical obstetrical management.


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## Glittergal (Feb 17, 2003)

Last year I caught a 9 lb baby that, quite literally, flew out of my patient, who was a stout 4'10 first time mom. The residents and my CNM instructor on the floor were convinced she wouldn't progress because of her size (lovely, I know). When I examined her (which my instructor had not), she had the roomiest pelvis I have ever felt! I was quite delighted when the baby came right down by himself and she barely pushed to get the little one out. She didn't need even one stitch! Pretty impressive and a great reminder to all those that doubted her ability that women are meant to birth!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

With typical hospital management, I was unable to push out a 7.5 lb baby, but I know it has nothing to do with my pelvis. I believe at home I can deliver a much larger one with a lot less effort.

Remember, the pelvic ligaments stretch, and the baby's head molds...


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## watermamma (Dec 29, 2003)

I can handle Kate Hudson having an unnecessary c-birth, but I hate to think of all the women out there reading these articles about celebrities and their "emergency" c-sections for their "gigantic" babies and believing that women are not made to birth babies, but surgeons are.

Unfortunately, celebrities have a huge influence on the general population, and we already know how educated the general public is already about birth. Ugh


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

These "big babies" are getting smaller and smaller. It used to be a sign of health if a baby was 9-10 lbs, now it's considered abnormal and 8 lb babies are "big."

Some doctors even say that for a mom under 5 feet tall, 7 lbs is too big.


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## LDSmomma6 (Oct 31, 2003)

I do know that Kathie Lee Gifford had the liposuction after her daughter was born. I watched the show after she returned (from maternity leave) and she was talking about after the OB was done (can't remember if she had a c/s), then the plastic surgeons came in, and did their work. I was like "wow! must be nice!!" Never really watched her after that, because she made me sick.

I do agree that most OB's put that thought in the mother's head about having a big baby. My friend was expecting #4, and her #3 had been almost 11 pounds. I think her #2 was 10 pounds. Anyway, both babies "got stuck", and had to be forced out with forceps or something. So, when she was going to have #4, the doctor measured the baby with u/s, and said this baby was going to be a whopper, and that she needed to schedule a c/s. She did, baby was born a healthy 8 pounds 6 ounces.







:

My mom is 5'4" and weighs 120 at the most when pregnant. She had 7 natural deliveries (and 1 c/s in 1971 due to a stupid doctor, and then really blotched her scar...she should have sued, but it was a military doctor back in 1971. Had 6 naturals afterwards), and her #6 and #8 were both almost 10 pounds! Her smallest baby was #4 and she was 7 pounds 3 ounces! I think I was her next smallest at 7#12.


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## Nemmer (Sep 30, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Greaseball_
*These "big babies" are getting smaller and smaller. It used to be a sign of health if a baby was 9-10 lbs, now it's considered abnormal and 8 lb babies are "big."
*
I agree! My mom had 5 babies. I was the smallest and I weighed 8 lbs 9 oz. Her youngest was 10 lbs 5 oz. She never had a c-section.







And she's only about 5'5" or so, if that. (can't remember her height exactly, lol, but she's not much taller than me!) I remember people commenting on how "big" my sister, the 10 lber was, but the others were just normal!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

So, when she was going to have #4, the doctor measured the baby with u/s, and said this baby was going to be a whopper, and that she needed to schedule a c/s. She did, baby was born a healthy 8 pounds 6 ounces.
I hear this a lot from moms, but the funny thing is they never seem too upset about it. They don't walk away feeling violated and like their lives were unnecessarily risked. I think it has to do with how all the risks are downplayed.


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## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by doulamomvicki_
*I am going to let everyone in on a secret. When I worked in L&D we had quite a few local celebrity types deliver at our hosp. They would have their ob deliver the baby and then the plastic surgeon would step in to tip, tuck and close. It was all planned. Not one of these moms publically would say they had scheduled c/s for that reason, it was always "the baby was too big" or "I tried but was not progressing" and so on. My guess is that was the real reason for Kate's c/s.*
I work L&D as a RN and one of the OB's who did her residency in LA said that all the stars come in for 4 week postpartum visits so they can get cleared for 6 week postpartum liposuction. That scares the heck outta me!


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## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by applejuice_
*:All of you L&D nurses: how often are those scales in the delivery room calibrated?

Do doctors tell you to lie about the weight to gain and/or confirm the "lie" that the baby is too big for a vaginal delivery?*
We use digital scales and I don't know how often they are calibrated. No way would a doctor ask a nurse to lie and even if they did, I doubt anyone would go along with it. Too much at risk - an honestly, the relationship between the OB's and nurses is that great. We tend to think that most of them are idiots. Truely. The doctors tend to come up with some idiotic reason to justify the c/sec - like "well, he was too big for YOU!" or "good thing we did this now, the placenta was deteriorating and the cord was around the neck!"

Quote:

*:
With all of mine born at home, I know that those tired midwives were not all very careful about being precise with the weight. My youngest was weighed with a fishing scale. In three days at the pediatrician's office, there was a marked difference.*
Yeah, my last hb baby weighed 8-12 a week after birth when the fish scale had called him 8-2 at birth. I thought he looked bigger than that and I'm generally a pretty good guess!


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

Tonight when I was in the supermarket check-out I skimmed through an article about Kate. Apparently she "desperately wanted a natural birth."









In the pictures she looked like a _normal_ pregnant woman too, not like most celebrities who remain a size 2 everywhere but their bellies.


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## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by blueviolet_
*Tonight when I was in the supermarket check-out I skimmed through an article about Kate. Apparently she "desperately wanted a natural birth."








*
I had read earlier that she was planning a waterbirth. That is some drastic change of plans....


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Alittle







T

Quote:

_Originally posted by Mom2six_
*... No way would a doctor ask a nurse to lie and even if they did, I doubt anyone would go along with it. Too much at risk - an honestly, the relationship between the OB's and nurses is that great. We tend to think that most of them are idiots. Truely.*
Have you ever seen the 1982 movie "Malpractice" starring Paul Newman? It is about just that; a woman becomes a vegetable at the hands of an experienced OB in a classy hospital after a doctor tells the OB nurse to lie about the hours sinc e the patient ate. She was given gas during labor and aspirated her own vomit. She told them it had been an hour since she ate, but the nurse was told to change the 1 to a 9. The nurse lost her job, but the doctor was still there.

That is as I recall it anyway.


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## Ms.Doula (Apr 3, 2003)

No comment. Im letting the smiley speak for itself.


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## ComaWhite (Mar 13, 2003)

Quote:

I think that the quickie tummy-tuck is more likely, though. How else do you explain the way celbrity moms don't seem to have a post-partum chubby period like the rest of us?
I'm hoping that you wouldn't assume us non-celeb mommies that _didn't_ have a post-partum chubby peroid as being c-section-tummy-tuck freaks!


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## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by applejuice_
*Have you ever seen the 1982 movie "Malpractice" starring Paul Newman? It is about just that; a woman becomes a vegetable at the hands of an experienced OB in a classy hospital after a doctor tells the OB nurse to lie about the hours sinc e the patient ate. She was given gas during labor and aspirated her own vomit. She told them it had been an hour since she ate, but the nurse was told to change the 1 to a 9. The nurse lost her job, but the doctor was still there.*
Yes, I saw the movie YEARS ago, but that is basically how I remember it. Might I remind you of two things - 1) that was a MOVIE and 2) nurse/doctor relationships have changed *emensely* in the past 25 years. I'm not saying it could never happen, but at least in my experience it would be HIGHLY unlikely.

Editted to ad: Now that I think back on this movie, the scenario really bugs me. It plays into all those "aspiration" fears about eating in labor. A woman can aspirate 1 hour or 9 hours after eating, so the real person who would be at fault here would be - the ANESTHISOLOGIST who intubated her improperly allowing her to aspirate!!!!


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I'm sure anyone here who has worked in a hospital knows the nurse's first duty is to obey the doctor. Asking questions is not allowed.

I know there are "exceptions" but those are probably as rare as true cases of CPD.


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

I'm sure anyone here who has worked in a hospital knows the nurse's first duty is to obey the doctor. Asking questions is not allowed.
Um, i work in a hospital, as a nurse, and i do follow doctors orders. Questions are allowed. i am a patient advocate first and foremost. My priority is my patient, not the doctors feelings. Please do not assume that nurses dont question doctors orders.

Quote:

I know there are "exceptions" but those are probably as rare as true cases of CPD.
I respectfully disagree. This angers me that people just assume that nurses are obedient robots without a voice. There isnt one single nurse i know of personally that hasnt questioned a doctor. It wouldnt be safe. dictors arent God, they are mere men (and women!).

Please dont lump us all in and broadly generalize. because you're wrong.

FTR, of all the births i have witnessed, including c-sections, i have never seen a nurse lie about the weight, and i have never heard a doctor ask either.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:

My priority is my patient, not the doctors feelings. Please do not assume that nurses dont question doctors orders.
I probably spoke too soon. Of course there are good, compassionate nurses who care about their patients. But have you been in the middle of a doctor/patient conflict? Have you been able to "side" with the patient without fear of angering the doctor or losing your job? Have you been able to advocate for a patient's choice, even if it was a choice that would inconvenience the doctor?

I have never been a nurse, I have just worked around them and doctors (in a mental hospital) and it really does look like the doctor is the one in charge. Other nurses tell me they are responsible for 90% of the patient's care, but get to make none of the decisions.


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## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Greaseball_
*I'm sure anyone here who has worked in a hospital knows the nurse's first duty is to obey the doctor. Asking questions is not allowed.

I know there are "exceptions" but those are probably as rare as true cases of CPD.*
WHOA. Nurse who works in hospital here. This is such a GROSS distortion that I'm not even sure where to begin. Nurses carry their own license and that license can be REVOKED for NOT questioning doctors orders that are in error.

I work in L&D. No, I do not get to choose who gets induced and for what bogus reason (they tell me it's 'large for gestational age' I don't get to say "hey, I don't think the baby is that big" b/c I'm not licensed to make that decision). I don't get to order medications ("hmmm - I think she needs dopamine, not pitocin!"). But if a MD orders something that is in violation of protocol or safe practice you better believe I am going to question and REFUSE to follow it b/c it's my ass and license that will be on the line. We have been told repeatedly sense nursing school "I was just following the doctors orders" is no defense and will *not* stand up in court. And yes, I have done this. We have an "old fart" group of doctors that like to make up pitocin orders that don't follow protocol - I not sure why they do, b/c there is not one nurse on the floor that will follow them and we always tell them "if you would like to do that, you'll have to come in and do it yourself".

In case you couldn't tell - I'm offended.


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## crazy_eights (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Greaseball_
*IBut have you been in the middle of a doctor/patient conflict? Have you been able to "side" with the patient without fear of angering the doctor or losing your job? Have you been able to advocate for a patient's choice, even if it was a choice that would inconvenience the doctor?*
Um, yes and yes. You better believe it. Even to the point of angering the doctor. You get it yet?


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

But have you been in the middle of a doctor/patient conflict? Have you been able to "side" with the patient without fear of angering the doctor or losing your job
Yes to both. Again, doctors are not God. They can and do make mistakes, and if i do what they say and make an error, i am as much at fault as he.

Quote:

Have you been able to advocate for a patient's choice, even if it was a choice that would inconvenience the doctor?
Absolutely. Many times. I even had one time where i directly questioned the doctors ethics to his face.

Quote:

I have never been a nurse
Then please, dont broadly generalize and criticize something you are not directly involved with. Being in the perimeters of the medical field does not make you an authority. and you could very well be missing the real nurse~doctor dynamics.

Quote:

it really does look like the doctor is the one in charge
Techinically, you are correct. The doctor is the one "managing" and "directing" the patients course in a hospital. However, it is the nurses that see if such course is in fact working, not working, and has a direct impact on the outcome.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I'm an idiot! Maybe I read too much.


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## doulamomvicki (Nov 4, 2003)

Sweetbaby3 and Mom2six, as a fellow l&d nurse thank you! We are not mindless drones. I have never lied on my charting and frankly I feel if anything we are in a postion to protect and advocate for our patients. Especially the most vulnerable ones.


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## pamamidwife (May 7, 2003)

During transports, nurses are either our greatest allies or our greatest enemies. I have a HUGE amount of respect for what they do, and I've had so many nurses go BEYOND the call of duty to help my clients achieve what they want.

In my eyes, they are truly UNSUNG heroes that should be getting paid a hell of a lot more.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

It's funny, a while ago one of those "career track" tests said I would be better at nursing than any other profession. But that was when I was in the police academy, so I was quite different back then!


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## Lucky Charm (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:

I'm an idiot
Nah, just passionate.


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

"No, I do not get to choose who gets induced and for what bogus reason (they tell me it's 'large for gestational age' I don't get to say "hey, I don't think the baby is that big" b/c I'm not licensed to make that decision). I don't get to order medications ("hmmm - I think she needs dopamine, not pitocin!")."

This is the kind of thing that I assumed Greaseball was talking about. You might very well see that induction is not the best course of action, for instance, but for you to argue about it isn't going to change anything, right? Of course that's a very different thing than saying that nurses cannot ask questions and cannot disagree, which of course is not literally true (though I assume some doctors like to discourage it.)

I keep mentioning this book, Hard Labor, by Susan Diamond, sorry, but it keeps on being relevant. Have any of you nurses read it? What did you think of it? Some of the stories she tells of abuses by doctors, and nurses being afraid to speak up about them, are just shocking. Well, to me. So, I guess my question is, is this unusual or common? How often do you see things that you disagree with but feel that you can't or shouldn't say anything? If not often, do you feel you work in especially progressive hospitals?


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