# Dr. Refuses our family for complaining about forced retraction!



## incorrigible (Jun 3, 2007)

.


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)




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## titania8 (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rmzbm* 









yea, my face is just hanging open here. speechless. un-freaking-believable.

wow. they assult your child, tell you they will make it right, and then throw you out????







:


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## christifav (Nov 10, 2005)

momma, I am shocked at what has happened to your family, but I applaud you for taking action. Thank you thank you thank you for not rolling over on this one.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

I'd go for the media. I doubt filing charges with the police will do any good (I wish I though it would do some good she totally deserves it.)

If you could find other moms with similar stories you'd be more likely to get coverage.


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## incorrigible (Jun 3, 2007)

.


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## bluetoes (May 12, 2007)

That is horrible! That NP must have something on the doctors. Have you ever had any problems with one of the doctors over anything else? It is just so weird I don't get it.

Does your town have a reporter that investigates complaints like this for the local TV news?

What a bunch of jerks. Sorry this happened to you and your family. Hopefully you can find another ped practice that is a shower of *&^%$!


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

I had the EXACT same thing happen to me. Good riddance, I say.


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## Fi. (May 3, 2005)

Dave2GA is a lawyer that deals especially in these types of cases and posts on this board. PM him ASAP for some advice. Also email Doctors Opposing Circumcision, they'll know how to help too.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

I agree you should consult the "anti-circ" lawyers to see what they suggest.

They are within their rights to refuse you as patients. I do think they should provide your records at no charge. You are better off with another pediatrician anyway, if nothing else this shows they aren't folks you want to work with.

It's possible that your husband's ex got overly agressive with them and I wouldn't fault anyone for refusing to do business with a client who crossed the line from angry to abusive language. Not that I have any indication that's what happened, but if it did, it makes more sense.


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## incorrigible (Jun 3, 2007)

.


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## foreskin friendly (Jul 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
I'd go for the media. I doubt filing charges with the police will do any good (I wish I though it would do some good she totally deserves it.)

If you could find other moms with similar stories you'd be more likely to get coverage.

HI! "Other Mom" here! I'm very sorry to hear what happened to you and your son, being thrown out of your peds group is just another violation!
I am beyond LIVID about what happened to my son on July 11th and didn't realize it was so common until coming here.... I've written a letter and copied it to aprox 85 parties that I hope will take interest and do something..anything!

You can see my letter at the end of the thread titled "updated w/her ltr/doctor forcibly retracted foreskin" from earlier today... or PM me.. (I'll figure that out).... definitely write! copy local legislators, hospitals (so they know to educate their medical professionals), news (you can find almost all names/addresses on my ltr)...







....


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## foreskin friendly (Jul 16, 2007)

Here is the letter... very last post....copy and paste the cc: list into your letter, just change the state legislators. May have to increase font to read..sorry!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=712014&page=2

Also, it wouldn't hurt going to the police to file charges.. I have not done that YET... but.. plan to.
If they won't take a complaint, don't stop there! If you want, go through the chain of command, supervisor-cheif of police, etc...or just contact the state prosecutor or attorney directly.
Make sure to touch base with David Llewellyn, Atlanta Circumcision Info Center, and John Geisheker, Doctors Opposing Circumcision...
they gave me extremely valuable advice FREE!


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## grrr (Jul 22, 2007)

I bet the pediatrician is just covering their ass. If the nurse did it again to your child they would be open for all kinds of trouble. Their lawyer probably suggested the letter.


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## glongley (Jun 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grrr* 
I bet the pediatrician is just covering their ass. If the nurse did it again to your child they would be open for all kinds of trouble. Their lawyer probably suggested the letter.

Yep, I'm sure once you mention the possibility of a suit, even if this incident were corrected and blows over, that you would be considered a very risky patient/parent to keep in their practice, out of fear that there might be another incident that would "set you off." So they are protecting themselves from legal troubles later by refusing you care.

Whatever you have the energy to do, whether it be letters (including to the state board that licenses this nurse practitioner), lawsuit, or contacting the media, I'm sure it will be beneficial for the intactivist cause.

Good luck, and sorry you have to go through this.

Gillian


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## incorrigible (Jun 3, 2007)

.


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## ulla (Feb 3, 2007)

Their response was to be expected after threatening them with legal action. Once you've positioned yourself as an adversary and fired the opening volley in a lawsuit, the practice can no longer keep you as a patient. Surely, that must be clear to you. You can't declare war on them and still expect them to have warm feelings toward you.

I doubt you'll get anywhere with a charge of sexual assault. I also don't think you will get much sympathy from the public. You will not be taken seriously if you come off as overly emotional and vindictive.

I really feel for your son. It sounds like the worse is past and soon he will be as good as new. Good hygiene and some antiseptic cream are the best prevention against infection. A single incident, if properly handled, will not cause any lasting damage.

I raised three sons and your son's ailments are par for the course. Just about all boys have some kind of minor penis injury and they recover just fine. No need to panic. My boys are intact and they've all had unfortunate incidents with zippers, sports gear, etc that caused some unintentional retraction or breaking of adhesions. My sons are all sexually active now and no problems at all.


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## ~Kira~ (Sep 16, 2004)

It's good that you've got things written down as they happened. Make sure to keep copies of any documents you have, obviously that letter, and write down every single thing re: the incident.

You will get really professional advice and help from Dave2GA, and I do think that if handled properly, this could be taken to the media --- hopefully the attention it receives will help to prevent this from happening to other boys.

- Kira


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## kxsiven (Nov 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ulla* 
Just about all boys have some kind of minor penis injury and they recover just fine.

Forceful retraction by medical persnel is no minor penile injury - it is the biggest reason why American boys get so often circumcised later.

If nurse had pushed vibrator in little girl's vagina no one would be calling it minor vagina injury.

But the attitude in USA is horrible when it comes to little boys' genitals.

Where I live this nurse would be charged and get punished. She harmed a patient and obviously is not quolified to be a nurse if she did something like that.

This issue need more publicity. I've been in this debate over 7 years and things hhave not changed. Doctors and nurses still continue widely tret intact boys badly.

Things do not change until this issue have been brought to daylight.


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## ulla (Feb 3, 2007)

Forceful retraction by medical persnel is no minor penile injury - it is the biggest reason why American boys get so often circumcised later.[/QUOTE]
From the OPs description of what actually happened it does indeed sound minor to me. If the little boy's reaction was "ouch" and then he later experienced a burning sensation when urinating, that is not serious. My oldest sons got his foreskin caught in a zipper and he was howling in pain all the way to the emergency room and bleeding profusely. At the emergency room the doctor had to retract a bit to evaluate the the wound. He need a few stitches on the tip of the foreskin. This all happened in Paris, France when my son was three years old. My son experienced no lasting problems. He has an active sex life with no issues.

My sons were born in France Tanzania, and Germany. In both France and Germany doctor's do occasionally push the foreskin back a bit to evaluate a complaint of pain.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kxsiven* 
If nurse had pushed vibrator in little girl's vagina no one would be calling it minor vagina injury.

This is gross and in not relevant to the discussion.


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## pixiesmommy (Apr 19, 2007)

I disagree. I think it is relevant because it's abuse, whether the abuser is aware of it or not. Ignorance is NO excuse for harming a child!

Also, to the OP... I'm very close to you physically in IL and if you need help with anything or want to march, etc. just let me know by PM. I don't have a son (yet! This one might be a boy that I'm pregnant with!) but I'm willing to do what I can.

Manda


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## Bm31 (Jun 5, 2005)

Have you thought about filing a complaint with the Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation? They regulate the licenses of doctors and nurses. Knowing the backwards views in this state it probably won't get far, but it might not hurt to try.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

Retracting of the foreskin like happened to the op's son is sexual assault. No if ands or buts. The equevilent of retracting the foreskin is the same as a invasive vaginal exam.

As long as we continue to see this as a simple thing nothing is going to change. We have to do all we can to get the word out that we will no longer be allowing our sons to be harmed by foreskin ignorent healthcare workers.

What if instead of a boy we were talking about a girl here saying ouch during a look see at the genital area? Boys deserve the same rights and respect givin to girls.


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## carriebft (Mar 10, 2007)

If my daughter had labial adhesions and my doctor ripped them apart (esp after being told to leave her labia alone), I would file charges in a heart beat. I see no differences between that and what happened here. Good for you for contacting Dave and moving on this.

It's about bleeping time doctors and nurses were punished for hurting little boys.

(I also agree that the threat of a lawsuit probably made them drop you as a patient....that's not surprising, but keep fighting momma!)


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## paquerette (Oct 16, 2004)

It may be true that no one's ever attempted to file criminal assault charges for forced retraction. But it's got to start somewhere. If this mama's got the gumption for it, then do what you can!


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Frankly I don't think you're going to get very far with the police and/or a lawsuit. Not because you shouldn't but because this is not the level of damage that will get you a good lawyer willing to put the hours into it for a decent payoff (unless you've got $200+ an hour to pay an attorney up front to take the case).

I would pursue the professional angle, writing letters of complaint to the state medical licensing board, the AAP, etc. I'd also try to get some media coverage, and definitely publicize this to everyone you know locally.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *paquerette* 
It may be true that no one's ever attempted to file criminal assault charges for forced retraction. But it's got to start somewhere. If this mama's got the gumption for it, then do what you can!









This one is actually a very good first case.

the child in question is old enough to have a say in people touching his genitals
she had been warned on many occasions not to play with his penis
she seemed to deliberately try to hide what she was doing
she has a specific questionnaire to fill out which never mentioned the penis
the child is old enough to express what happened to him in a grownup manner
Unfortunately I still doubt that the police will take it seriously.


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## jenP (Aug 22, 2002)

if you didn't already, take lots of photos of the damage, and as it heals.

media and public and police won't take it seriously 'cause everyone thinks that you are supposed to retract anyway.

good luck, and please keep us posted! glad you are willing to go to the mat to protect your son and hopefully help stop it happening to someone else.

jen


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## incorrigible (Jun 3, 2007)

.


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## fishface (Jan 6, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kxsiven* 
If nurse had pushed vibrator in little girl's vagina no one would be calling it minor vagina injury.

No one shoved a vibrator under the boy's foreskin. Perhaps your analogy would make sense if you said "If a nurse had yanked the girl's labia apart" or something. I'm just stunned and disgusted by this "analogy". Ew.


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## jenP (Aug 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *incorrigible* 
ETA- you know, I had thought of taking pics but decided that it was too invasive an action. My son is ok with talking about it, but having me taking pictures of his penis or worse - showing them to anyone - would be over the line. I'll have to trust that my son and I are articulate and balanced enough to make the point without that step.

I can totally understand your son not wanting pics! I was just thinking of the angle of your needing to prove that harm was done. Seems like the NP and the whole practice will deny everything. Maybe if you find a good doctor who could do an exam asap while there is still evidence of the trauma, he could write an affidavit that he did indeed observe harm on such-and-such date.

Jen


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## ulla (Feb 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MCatLvrMom2A&X* 
Retracting of the foreskin like happened to the op's son is sexual assault. No if ands or buts. The equevilent of retracting the foreskin is the same as a invasive vaginal exam.

I disagree. It is more than a stretch to call a medical exam sexual assault.

Regardless of whether the nurse's actions were misguided or a result of misinformation, one could reasonably (and successfully) argue that her actions still fall well within the boundaries of a normal medical exam and she was doing her due diligence by examining the boy for what she thought could be a medical problem.

I guess I'm mystified by the retraction obsession in the U.S. I've lived all over the world with my children and never encountered the belief that a one-time incident of retraction with cause horrible permanent damage and the person who did it is evil and deserves to be destroyed professionally and financially.


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## +stella+ (Apr 17, 2005)

You know, Id be inclined to agree with you, however...

It not ONE time, its to every child lucky enough to be intact that comes under her care. And its not due diligence in looking for what she thought was a problem, it is contradictory to the AAP. Its not normal care, correct care, or prudent in any way shape or form to an evaluation, and for the patients of hers that cannot retract, no doubt the next step, or at least if not her specifically but of care providers in this country, is to order an circ consult with a urologist.

THAT is WRONG. And the letter was rightfully sent, and if they do what they say they will do in the response, train the nurse in the correct care of a intact penis on a prepubescent boy, then there will be no problem. But instead the care providers in this country put their head in the sand and do whatever the damn well please, and that will not stop unless we make them stop, and apparently in this case, asking for this respect during an exam is not good enough.

Parents cannot continue to look the other way when their child is treated incorrectly and I dont care if there is one nano of a percent chance that lasting damage can be done by ANY procedure someone performs on my child if it is UNNECESSARY per the guidelines outlined in the medical establishment that represents them, in this case the AAP.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

They are definitely covering their asses, cowards. I can only imagine how upset my non-retractable 6 yr. old would be if someone retracted him (it would be painful), it is assualt. Assualts have and do happen under the guise of a medical exam. I'm upset to hear the same ignorance and abuse goes on in other countries as well, intact ones no less. Why the obsession with retracting little boys?


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## christifav (Nov 10, 2005)

If a doc inserted a finger into dd's vagina to "stretch" or "check for infection" I would consider that assault. Boy's foreskins do not need to be stretched or retracted to check for ANYTHING. It IS assault. It IS a big deal. Nobody, boy, girl, man, woman deserves to have their genitals mishandled by ANYONE. Medical professionals are not exempt and do not have free reign to touch people without regard to their feelings.

Even during my pelvic exams, docs have the decency to TELL ME what they are going to do..."now you'll feel my hands on the outside...now I'm going to _____". If at any point I didn't want that to happen, I have a second or two to say no. This boy was not told what was going to happen, and did not have an opportunity to protest. The NP LIED to him and to the OP and secretively assaulted him anyway.

I'm sick of the attitude that doctors can touch people in their most private regions without regard to the patients feelings and assume that by virtue of their presence, the patient has implied consent to genital mishandling. No doctor touches me ANYWHERE without asking, much less the genitals. this NP was TOLD not to touch and disobeyed. that is assault. period. To imply that it is no big deal implies that the boy's feelings are invalid and that he is expected to "get over it". I can't believe anyone would suggest that. This OP is doing a great thing by reporting this and hopefully it will prevent other children from this kind of assault.

ETA: And the "it was just once" argument is just great. I'm sure all the victims out there who were assaulted "only once" suffer no ill effects. Really it isn't until the 3rd or 4th time that it starts to affect you. (eye roll)


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## jenP (Aug 22, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *+stella+* 
You know, Id be inclined to agree with you, however...

It not ONE time, its to every child lucky enough to be intact that comes under her care. And its not due diligence in looking for what she thought was a problem, it is contradictory to the AAP. Its not normal care, correct care, or prudent in any way shape or form to an evaluation, and for the patients of hers that cannot retract, no doubt the next step, or at least if not her specifically but of care providers in this country, is to order an circ consult with a urologist.

THAT is WRONG. And the letter was rightfully sent, and if they do what they say they will do in the response, train the nurse in the correct care of a intact penis on a prepubescent boy, then there will be no problem. But instead the care providers in this country put their head in the sand and do whatever the damn well please, and that will not stop unless we make them stop, and apparently in this case, asking for this respect during an exam is not good enough.

Parents cannot continue to look the other way when their child is treated incorrectly and I dont care if there is one nano of a percent chance that lasting damage can be done by ANY procedure someone performs on my child if it is UNNECESSARY per the guidelines outlined in the medical establishment that represents them, in this case the AAP.

















well said.

jen


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster* 
This one is actually a very good first case.

the child in question is old enough to have a say in people touching his genitals
she had been warned on many occasions not to play with his penis
she seemed to deliberately try to hide what she was doing
she has a specific questionnaire to fill out which never mentioned the penis
the child is old enough to express what happened to him in a grownup manner
Unfortunately I still doubt that the police will take it seriously.

I agree that the police would probably not see this as their area. I also think the media would not want to get involved in a dispute between a doctor and patient.

However, I think incorrigible would do very well to file a complaint with the nurses licensing board -- and emphasizing the fact that the nurse disregarded the parent's instructions and intentionally went against the parent's wishes. That is poor care, and it's unacceptable, and a licensing board should take that very seriously.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *+stella+* 
You know, Id be inclined to agree with you, however...

It not ONE time, its to every child lucky enough to be intact that comes under her care. And its not due diligence in looking for what she thought was a problem, it is contradictory to the AAP. Its not normal care, correct care, or prudent in any way shape or form to an evaluation, and for the patients of hers that cannot retract, no doubt the next step, or at least if not her specifically but of care providers in this country, is to order an circ consult with a urologist.

THAT is WRONG. And the letter was rightfully sent, and if they do what they say they will do in the response, train the nurse in the correct care of a intact penis on a prepubescent boy, then there will be no problem. But instead the care providers in this country put their head in the sand and do whatever the damn well please, and that will not stop unless we make them stop, and apparently in this case, asking for this respect during an exam is not good enough.

Parents cannot continue to look the other way when their child is treated incorrectly and I dont care if there is one nano of a percent chance that lasting damage can be done by ANY procedure someone performs on my child if it is UNNECESSARY per the guidelines outlined in the medical establishment that represents them, in this case the AAP.

You know, I think the biggest wrong is not that she retracted, but that she did so SPECIFICALLY AGAINST THE PARENT'S CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS. That is unacceptable care. I think many health professionals aren't familiar with intact care, but to defiantly retract when the professional has been explicitly told not to means the professional is unworthy of patients' and parents' trust.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *christifav* 
If a doc inserted a finger into dd's vagina to "stretch" or "check for infection" I would consider that assault. Boy's foreskins do not need to be stretched or retracted to check for ANYTHING. It IS assault. It IS a big deal. Nobody, boy, girl, man, woman deserves to have their genitals mishandled by ANYONE. Medical professionals are not exempt and do not have free reign to touch people without regard to their feelings.

Even during my pelvic exams, docs have the decency to TELL ME what they are going to do..."now you'll feel my hands on the outside...now I'm going to _____". If at any point I didn't want that to happen, I have a second or two to say no. This boy was not told what was going to happen, and did not have an opportunity to protest. The NP LIED to him and to the OP and secretively assaulted him anyway.

I'm sick of the attitude that doctors can touch people in their most private regions without regard to the patients feelings and assume that by virtue of their presence, the patient has implied consent to genital mishandling. No doctor touches me ANYWHERE without asking, much less the genitals. this NP was TOLD not to touch and disobeyed. that is assault. period. To imply that it is no big deal implies that the boy's feelings are invalid and that he is expected to "get over it". I can't believe anyone would suggest that. This OP is doing a great thing by reporting this and hopefully it will prevent other children from this kind of assault.

ETA: And the "it was just once" argument is just great. I'm sure all the victims out there who were assaulted "only once" suffer no ill effects. Really it isn't until the 3rd or 4th time that it starts to affect you. (eye roll)

Very well said.


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## gurumama (Oct 6, 2002)

When my 4 yo was having testicular surgery, we told the surgeon verbally and in writing not to retract his foreskin. We were told specifically by a lawyer and by a different doctor that had the surgeon gone _against our clear directive, verbally or in writing_, that her actions would be considered medical malpractice by law.

The OP told the nurse clearly not to retract, and the nurse violated the verbal instructions.


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ulla* 
I disagree. It is more than a stretch to call a medical exam sexual assault.

Regardless of whether the nurse's actions were misguided or a result of misinformation, one could reasonably (and successfully) argue that her actions still fall well within the boundaries of a normal medical exam and she was doing her due diligence by examining the boy for what she thought could be a medical problem.

I guess I'm mystified by the retraction obsession in the U.S. I've lived all over the world with my children and never encountered the belief that a one-time incident of retraction with cause horrible permanent damage and the person who did it is evil and deserves to be destroyed professionally and financially.

Not necessarily true...when I transferred to the hospital from my HB, I was forced into internal fetal monitoring and a VE that I refused. The monitoring was court ordered, the VE and the dozen times or more they decided to 'reposition' the IFM by forcibly holding my legs apart was not. I filed sexual assault charges against the CNM on that part and would have gone forward with them (and according to the judge who was acting as mediator for all parts of my lawsuit would have gone forward with a probable conviction) had I not agreed to stand down as part of the mediation process to settle to suits.

So yes, it can be sexual assault and this boy was old enough to understand what was happening and to have consented or not...besides, his mother who had medical proxy, did not consent...it is sexual assault and should be treated as such.


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## foreskin friendly (Jul 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *+stella+* 
You know, Id be inclined to agree with you, however...

It not ONE time, its to every child lucky enough to be intact that comes under her care. And its not due diligence in looking for what she thought was a problem, it is contradictory to the AAP. Its not normal care, correct care, or prudent in any way shape or form to an evaluation, and for the patients of hers that cannot retract, no doubt the next step, or at least if not her specifically but of care providers in this country, is to order an circ consult with a urologist.

THAT is WRONG. And the letter was rightfully sent, and if they do what they say they will do in the response, train the nurse in the correct care of a intact penis on a prepubescent boy, then there will be no problem. But instead the care providers in this country put their head in the sand and do whatever the damn well please, and that will not stop unless we make them stop, and apparently in this case, asking for this respect during an exam is not good enough.

Parents cannot continue to look the other way when their child is treated incorrectly and I dont care if there is one nano of a percent chance that lasting damage can be done by ANY procedure someone performs on my child if it is UNNECESSARY per the guidelines outlined in the medical establishment that represents them, in this case the AAP.









: It is an exhausting fight, but applause to OP for not backing
down!

BTW... I added the practice that threw this poor family out to the list of parties to send a copy of my letter to (which includes foreskin development and care instructions...







.....)


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## ulla (Feb 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *KBecks* 
she did so SPECIFICALLY AGAINST THE PARENT'S CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *KBecks* 
and emphasizing the fact that the nurse disregarded the parent's instructions and intentionally went against the parent's wishes.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *gurumama* 
The OP told the nurse clearly not to retract, and the nurse violated the verbal instructions.

You all are assuming facts that are not in evidence. In the OPs own words:

Quote:

One of the little check boxes on the form is about genitals. So, she tells us specifically what she's going to do. Only the testicles, blah blah. VERY clear about what's going to happen. His sister was in the room though so she was insistent that he turn so she couldn't see and stand on the other side of the examining table and stuff. It was weird the way she handled it, but she's one of those kind of judgmental know it alls that spouts the worst kind of mainstream drivel and doesn't even know why. *I find it best to just smile and nod and let those people have their way so long as it's not hurting anything.* And she was SO specific about what she would be doing and that she would ONLY touch his testicles...and *I was of the impression he was fully retracted not just partially. I just wanted the whole ordeal over with as quickly as possible. No harm could come from just letting her have her paranoid way, right?*
I don't see anything in the OP's narrative indicating that she issued any kind of prohibition against retracting, gave any verbal instructions, or expressed her wishes in any way. On the contrary, she took a passive role and just let the nurse conduct the exam as she saw fit. In my opinion, the OP also mishandled the situation by neglecting to speak up beforehand, and is therefore equally responsible for what happened to her son.


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## herbanmama (Jun 10, 2005)

^
While I see your point, I fail to understand why you chose to omit this while boldfacing the OP's quotes:
*So, she tells us specifically what she's going to do. Only the testicles, blah blah. VERY clear about what's going to happen.*
and
*"And she was SO specific about what she would be doing and that she would ONLY touch his testicles"*.

I still don't think that it'a fair to place the blame on the mama here. In hindsight, I am sure that she wishes that she had pitched a fit prior to the retraction. HOWEVER, the nurse gave no indication that she was going to do anything to her son's penis. last I checked, the testicles and penis - while in close proximity to each other - are not the same. There is no reason to assume that a testicle exam is going to lead to the forced retraction of a child's foreskin.

incorrigible, I'm so sorry that this happened to your son and I can't imagine the rage you must feel to be asked to leave the practice when THEY are in the wrong. You have every right to be outraged. I don't have a son, but have attended births as a doula, sister, and friend, I see caregivers perform all kinds of interventions and procedures against a client's wishes and without their consent, and it is infuriating. I view those invasive procedures as sexual assault, and your son's forced retraction as well.


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## mom2tig99Nroo03 (Apr 24, 2003)

sorry this happened to your little guy.

i hope some good can somehow come of this though.


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## ledzepplon (Jun 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *grrr* 
I bet the pediatrician is just covering their ass. If the nurse did it again to your child they would be open for all kinds of trouble. Their lawyer probably suggested the letter.

That was my first reaction, too.


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## christifav (Nov 10, 2005)

We _should not have to_ tell every doctor we take our kids to _not to assault them_. I do, because I have heard too many horror stories like this one. But, the absence of a _specific prohibition_ against assault does not equal consent to said assault.

I continue to be amazed that people, especially here at MDC, would think otherwise.

Medical professionals are expected to be "above board" and, correct me if I am wrong, don't they subscribe to a strict code of ethics because of the intimate nature of their relationship with patients? Ulla, do you feel that we should all take a stand with our doctors before examinations and demand that they not assault us during their exam? Why are we as a society then, so appalled when a doctor abuses his position and assaults women under anesthesia? They never _specifically asked him_ not to do that...

ETA: As herbanmama pointed out, in the OP's case the NP _did_ state exactly what she would do and then proceeded to assault the boy anyway, after forcing him to turn away from his mother so she could not watch the exam. Even talking about the specifics beforehand did not stop this NP from committing assault.

Unfortunately, cases like the OP's continue to erode faith in the medical establishment and make it very difficult to establish the trusting relationship that every patient should have with their doctor. This antagonistic relationship may lead patients to not seek care when it is truly needed.


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## incorrigible (Jun 3, 2007)

.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *christifav* 
Unfortunately, cases like the OP's continue to erode faith in the medical establishment and make it very difficult to establish the trusting relationship that every patient should have with their doctor. This antagonistic relationship may lead patients to not seek care when it is truly needed.

This is so true one time DS had a hair wrapped around the very tip of his foreskin and I worried that if I couldn't get it off myself and had to take him to the ER (I was scared of the idea of using scissors so close to things down there) that they would reccomend circing him. I managed to calm myself enough to simply unknot it, but it is rediculous to fear that the very people whom we are supposed to be able to go to in order to help and heal us may want to do harm far greater than the condition we went to see them with.


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## incorrigible (Jun 3, 2007)

.


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## Arduinna (May 30, 2002)

Quote:

it is rediculous to fear that the very people whom we are supposed to be able to go to in order to help and heal us may want to do harm far greater than the condition we went to see them with.
ITA! It is really sad this is a valid concern. We should be able to seek help and feel safe in doing so.


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## tuansprincess (Oct 25, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ulla* 
From the OPs description of what actually happened it does indeed sound minor to me. If the little boy's reaction was "ouch" and then he later experienced a burning sensation when urinating, that is not serious. My oldest sons got his foreskin caught in a zipper and he was howling in pain all the way to the emergency room and bleeding profusely. At the emergency room the doctor had to retract a bit to evaluate the the wound. He need a few stitches on the tip of the foreskin. This all happened in Paris, France when my son was three years old. My son experienced no lasting problems. He has an active sex life with no issues.

My sons were born in France Tanzania, and Germany. In both France and Germany doctor's do occasionally push the foreskin back a bit to evaluate a complaint of pain.

It doesn't matter if the degree of physical harm done was little or great. Sexual molestation is sexual molestation. Why do docs feel the need to pull the foreskin back to "check" anyway? It's like they don't believe there is really a glans in there if they can't see it.







:

And incorigible, I like your ds statement. Very well said.


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## KBecks (Jan 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ulla* 
You all are assuming facts that are not in evidence. In the OPs own words:

I don't see anything in the OP's narrative indicating that she issued any kind of prohibition against retracting, gave any verbal instructions, or expressed her wishes in any way. On the contrary, she took a passive role and just let the nurse conduct the exam as she saw fit. In my opinion, the OP also mishandled the situation by neglecting to speak up beforehand, and is therefore equally responsible for what happened to her son.

That's a good and fair clarification. But it can't be denied that the nurse practitioner misled the mother and son as to what she intended to do during the exam. I still think it's fair to say she lied about the exam, and that still fits my description of poor quality of care. I don't think the responsibility is equal, although if the OP had been more explicit about her expectations, the situation may have been avoided. The nurse practitioner still lied and misled the patient and guardian.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

As horrible as it is, there is no justice.
I was terminated from care by my OB at 28 wks pregnant. I didn't get the mandatory by state 30 days of care, I was just out. I didn't receive prenatal care for months b/c they terminate me days before my next visit, which was canceled by them.

You can try your state board of medicine, but they followed the protocol of 30 day notice.

What I learned... I have rights to say no, but they also have the right to not accpet me as a patient. So be it... I found a hb mw and had a hba2c. The joke was on them









Find yourself an intact friendly doctor and forgettaboutit. I use a FP and I think our doc is probably intact although I would never ask (he's a deacon at our church). He is from Amish country and thinks HBs are normal occurances! And my CD are not unusual either... He is a great find.


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