# is dd (11) too young for chores??



## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

my dd hems and haws, argues to get out of doing dishes,picking up etc.
I find myself not asking anymore because its better than getting an argument every time. I want a good relationship with her and I feel like it suffers if I make her do anything. But I fear I am just enabling her to be lazy. My mom barely made me do anything and when I got married I didn't know how to clean, cook or anything literally-how do you boil water














??
my dh couldn't believe it. His mother was a single mom so he was required to do alot. He is not lazy at all and I am -still in alot of ways







.

Ok so maybe I answered my own question but what do you all do with your preteen/teens and chores, so it isn't such a battle??


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## mamaley (Mar 18, 2002)

I don't think so! I just read a study that said that if a parent is consistantly strict about their child doing even one chore, it increases responsibility, doing well in school and all that good stuff. I think 11 is a great age for her to have some special jobs around the house. Maybe start with one or two that she does on a regular basis--taking out trash, unloading dishwasher (if you have one!), folding her laundry--whatever works for you.


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

even just asking her to do one chore a day is a battle!! Have any ideas about how I can get her to do it w/out the battle


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## Tori Gollihugh (Jun 16, 2005)

NO WAY is 11 too young for a child to have chores! My DD isn't even 2 yet and she has kinda sorta chores. She loads the wet laundry into the dryer when it's done in the wash, she unloads the dryer onto the floor, she unloads bags of groceries onto the counters and into various parts of the house in which a given item belongs, she picks up her toys, she cleans up her spills and peepee accidents... I could go on. We started with just the responsibility to clean up after herself when she had peepee accidents, but she's got ALL that now... and she's WAY more helpful since having more 'assigned' tasks than she was before asking her to do them! She's also more loving and kind and empathetic - I think that's something that comes in greater abundance to us all when we increase our levels of service!







Good luck establishing your athoritAA! hehehehe


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## afishwithabike (Jun 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chandraj*
my dd hems and haws, argues to get out of doing dishes,picking up etc.
I find myself not asking anymore because its better than getting an argument every time. I want a good relationship with her and I feel like it suffers if I make her do anything. But I fear I am just enabling her to be lazy. My mom barely made me do anything and when I got married I didn't know how to clean, cook or anything literally-how do you boil water














??
my dh couldn't believe it. His mother was a single mom so he was required to do alot. He is not lazy at all and I am -still in alot of ways







.

Ok so maybe I answered my own question but what do you all do with your preteen/teens and chores, so it isn't such a battle??

My mom never HAD to do stuff and she says the same thing. I just thought is was a ploy to get us to do her housework. I really think it is good to have age appropriate tasks for DC. My DD "likes" to do things for me. I let her throw away her candy wrappers etc. I give her $$ whenever she puts her dirty clothes in the hamper, randomly begins picking up toys she has gotten out etc. I want her to see the good in doing things like that. I hope she doesn't have this problem, I see how my poor mom gets embarrassed.


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## hjohnson (Mar 2, 2004)

I think if a child can help, they can have chores. DS is 3 and he feeds the pets, helps unload the dishwasher, and sets the table. Thank God for unbreakable dishes!


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## USAmma (Nov 29, 2001)

My 5yo does chores and has been for some time. It started simple but she has a lot of responsibility for her things. She is in charge of keeping the dining area clean and picked up, she feeds her peds, she keeps her room clean, dresses herself, puts her newly washed clothes away, puts the dirty clothes in the hamper. Every so often I ask her to do something like clean the windows or pick up the toys from the yard. Most of the time she happily does them.

I just explained that everyone in our family has to work together to make our home clean and make sure we are healthy. I think helping out in the household makes children feel a part of it. They start to own it and take pride in it.

Even my 2yo will help with small tasks. Her favorite is putting wet clothes in the dryer for me and then closing the door. I hope that in a year or so dd1 can start to wash her own clothes. She wants to now but she can't reach the bottom of the washer.


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## clynnr (Apr 10, 2004)

Nope, definitely not. My fifteen-month old puts her dirty clothes/jammies in the hamper, puts the pillows on the bed after I make it in the morning (which is difficult, seeing as the top of the bed is level with her nose, LOL--a chore she decided to help with on her own, BTW), she puts her shoes away, helps put her toys away, and generally just "helps."

But at her age it's more of a task of encouraging her wanting to be helpful and providing her with age-appropriate tasks. I have no idea how to motivate an 11-year-old.







Sorry!


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

Oh dear it sounds like all of you have very young children. My dd would happily help when she was younger but this is recent,since she found the internet(email),talks on the the phone,she also plays the piano (she's good but I can't get her off the darn thing!) and reads for hours,she also is really into manga(japanese anime),so she is drawing when not doing those other things.

I don't know where I went wrong. Ok I lied I do know







.. I def. will put off cleaning to read my emails,munch on food,do beadwork,read a mag or book, so I guess I am setting a really bad example-yikes!!


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## rabrog (Dec 20, 2005)

Here's a list of things I remember doing at your DD's age:
- sorted my laundry
- folded and put away my laundry
- folded at least the towels and washclothes load
- set table for dinner
- load and unload dishwasher
- dust weekly
- vacuum upstairs/downstairs weekly
- clean my room

That's all I remember doing. I had to have the weekly things done by noon on Saturday or I didn't get my (meager) allowance. The setting the table and dishwasher was nightly.

Jenn


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rabrog*
Here's a list of things I remember doing at your DD's age:
- sorted my laundry
- folded and put away my laundry
- folded at least the towels and washclothes load
- set table for dinner
- load and unload dishwasher
- dust weekly
- vacuum upstairs/downstairs weekly
- clean my room

That's all I remember doing. I had to have the weekly things done by noon on Saturday or I didn't get my (meager) allowance. The setting the table and dishwasher was nightly.

Jenn

wow that sounds like alot but I guess its not unreasonable...


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## marybethorama (Jun 9, 2005)

chandraj said:


> .
> But I fear I am just enabling her to be lazy. My mom barely made me do anything and when I got married I didn't know how to clean, cook or anything literally-how do you boil water
> 
> 
> ...


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

I have an 8 yr old who does chores. Yes, he balks sometimes, but that is one thing I will not compromise on. I believe it is important to teach our kids to work with a good attitude. I also believe it is important to teach that being part of a family means that we all pitch in and keep the house clean, etc. That Mom is not the slave to everyone.

DS2 is almost 7 and has autism, but he also has chores to do. With him, it is especially important for his development to have him be as independent as possible. Even our 1 yr old, I am teaching to throw toys into the bin. Of course, he is way too young to totally comprehend, but I think it is good to start instilling these kinds of things as young as possible.

Yes, I am the mother and take care of my babies. They are not my personal slave boys. However, I will NOT be cleaning up after, catering to and waiting on grown boys in the future, nor will I have them go out into the world not knowing anything about taking care of themselves and a home. I do not believe in women doing it all, and the men not doing anything. I think that is antiquated, sexist BS.


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## SageRibbon (Dec 30, 2003)

I'm in the "very young kids" bracket, too, and my 2.5 year old DD feeds the cat, and helps me with the laundry (the yawn-dree). She also puts toys into the toybox, etc. I know they are so much more eager at that age, it's a game and "helping mommy" is fun and cool.

But I do have a teenaged sister so it's interesting seeing both sides of the kid spectrum. I think the best thing to do is have a list. A tangible list she can see and know exactly what she has to do. And if she chooses not to do those things then the consequences are clear, like : no tv, no internet, no going out with friends, etc. This way, it's her choice and she knows exactly what will happen...there's no point in throwing a fit bc she knows the rules and boundaries.

Just my $.02!


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## lrmama (Jan 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SageRibbon*
I think the best thing to do is have a list. A tangible list she can see and know exactly what she has to do. And if she chooses not to do those things then the consequences are clear, like : no tv, no internet, no going out with friends, etc. This way, it's her choice and she knows exactly what will happen...there's no point in throwing a fit bc she knows the

This is exactly how we deal with dd1, who's 15. She knows what her chores are, and what happens if she chooses not to accomplish them. We still have occasional problems with the quality of the work she does (she likes to rush some things so she can go back to doing her own thing), but once she's had to re-do a chore twice to get it right, she takes a little more care the next time.


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## Starr (Mar 16, 2005)

I would write a list of chores for her to do and then next to it right a priveledge that will be taken away if the shore isn't done. Maybe that way she can connect that hey if I don't set the table for supper I don't get to use the computer for 24 hrs. or something like that. Then help her dictate a set time to do them. Maybe right when she comes home from school for the next half hour she can help with laundry. That way she won't put it off.

My sister growing up was the same way. My mom had a hrad time making her realize she needed to contribute so my mom stopped. SHe stopped washing my sisters clothes and doing her supper dishes and dusting/ vacuuming her room. It took about a week for her to realize if she wanted supper she needed to wash her dishes from the night before. If she didn't want to get picked on in school she needed to put her clothes in the hamper so that they got washed...Just a thought.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

My 13 yr old stepson has chores he is expected to do.
-taking out the trash/recycling, to the cans and putting the cans on the curb on pick-up day
-clearing the dinner table and laoding the dishwasher
-cleaning up his room once a week or so
-we are starting to work on doing his own laundry, as well.

Above all else, we stress that privileges (going to the movies, hanging with friends after school and on weekends, watching tv, etc) are a result of fulfilling responsibilities. We don't do a chore chart or track the details closely, but it's a general theme. Also, He gets a $10 allowance each week and while we don't keep track in detail (x chore = x dollars) we do discuss that his chores are his responsibility and if we have to have a big fight about it all the time, we will reassess his allowance and other privileges. We have a family discussion about this from time to time (usually if it seems to become a struggle/battle) and ask for his input on the chores, does he feel like they are reasonable, does he feel like he gets enough free time and privileges? In that context, we are able to hash out the details of the agreement and then if he puts up a fight when chore time comes, all we have to do is gently remind him that these are his responsibilites and this is what is expected of him in our home. He usually comes around pretty quickly.

I know some would say that this is punitive (taking way privileges if he doesn't do his chores) but it works for us. My DSS has special needs and part of his challenges are understanding nuance. We really do have to make things tangible for him in order to set him up for success. It also helps that he is the type of kid who gets easily frustrated if things are out of order, and he knows this, so we discuss how much easier life is when your clothes are clean, the garbage isn't overflowing, and we have clean dishes. Also, we don't "threaten" to take away his allowance... rather we remind him of the agreement he made with us.


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## suziek (Jun 4, 2004)

I'm not there yet, but I am sure it is a lot easier to get a two year old to pick up his toys than it is to get an 11 yo to fold her laundry!

My question is this--from your signature I see you have three girls. Are the younger two older or younger? Do they have jobs around the house? If not, maybe you should start with a more general conversations about why everyone's contribution matters, and ask them for ways that the can help their home run smoothyly, and pleasantly.

It might be a good place to start. You could begin by getting everyone to make a list together of the daily, weekly and monthly jobs that need to be done. And then talk about who would like to do what for the first week, etc.

Good luck!


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## rebeccalizzie (Apr 1, 2005)

My DD is 10, and she has done chores for years. She does have "assigned" chores--they aren't written, but she knows she is responsible for them. I do ask her every time, it's easier than getting mad because she doesn't notice that it needs to be done. Her regular chores are:

feed the dogs
empty the dishwasher
clear the table after dinner
clean her room (I really don't care much about this, I only make her do it once in a while when it is out of hand)
put away her clean clothes after I've washed and folded them. Sometimes she'll fold and I'll put away for something different.

She balks sometimes, but I just ignore her. She cannot do anything else, including talking on the phone, until the chore is done, so she can take as long as she wants and can whine and complain to her heart's content. That motivates her to get it done in a reasonable amount of time. It also has to be done correctly or I will have her go back and finish. If we had a chronic problem with that, I'd take away privileges, but we don't so I'm not there yet.

For general "I need her to help" stuff, we work together until the house is clean or whatever. Again, it's just a requirement--she has to help me, she can whine and complain but she'd better be cleaning as she whines or she'll get something taken away. She isn't too bad about that stuff though--when we are cleaning together she moves faster and seems to accept that it just needs to be done.

I know this isn't GD, but I honestly don't know if it is possible to get her to the point where she is motivated to do it on her own. She really doesn't care if the dishes are done, and she doesn't understand why I can't do everything. I remember being the same way and I grew out of it.

Oh, one more idea...one of my friends has her DD pay her for undone chores. If her DD doesn't do her chore, her mom will do it, but then her DD is expected to pay her a quarter for each undone chore. Since her allowance is only $3...she's *very* motivated to do her own chores, and that's natural consequences in my mind--I have the choice of doing something or paying someone else to do it.

Anyway, hope some of this helps!


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## clynnr (Apr 10, 2004)

Just a thought (and because I feel bad that my original post wasn't very helpful, LOL)...

Does your DC have anything she *likes* to do around the house? Maybe you could ask her if there were things she would prefer to do. Sometimes having a little bit of choice makes it not so bad, KWIM?







Of course some chores are not optional, but maybe having some say would give her some ownership.


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## Lady Madonna (Jul 2, 2004)

My 2.5 y/o DD has sort-of chores, things she helps me with around the house. She helps empty the dishwasher, switch clothes from the washer to the dryer, hands me clothes from the dryer to fold. She's also expected to put her toys away when she's done with them - we're working on that one. I think it's important to help her get into the habit of doing chores around the house when she's young, so that when she's 11 or whatever, there's no moaning about suddenly being expected to contribute to the household.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Here's what we do:

My preteens get "paid" to do chores. Emptying the dishwasher is 10 cents, bringing a bag of garbage outside is 5 cents (or 10 if it's raining.) We have a whole list of every single chore and payment, plus "fines" if they do things like leave dishes on the table when they go to school or toys/clothes on the living room floor after bedtime. It's very simple: you don't want to empty the dishwasher? No problem, I'll do it and you won't get paid. You get into a cleaning mood and feel like doing much more than your usual share? Great! You'll get a concrete reward for your work as well as my gratitute and appreciation and the feeling of accomplishment.

Initially, we were keeping very careful track of everything, and I'm still doing it that way for my 9yo. With my 11yo (more because of her individual temperment than her age) she does chores all week without complaining and she gets $5 at the end of the week as allowance. My goal is to eventually have both of them do chores without complaining and get allowance once a week, but the "pay as you go" method is encouraging my 9yo to do more around the house, as well as eliminating the "It's not fair! Why do *I* have to do all the work when my sister is doing nothing?"

With their laundry, we have a much more direct system. I'll wash any clothes that are in a hamper, as long as there are empty laundry baskets available, and give them clean, folded (usually) laundry to put away. If they can't find a specific item of clothing because it wasn't put away- that's the "punishment" for not putting it away promptly. If something isn't washed because it's under a piece of furniture instead of in the hamper, it's also natural consequences. If they have no clean clothes because they never put away their laundry and I have no laundry baskets to use, that's also natural consequences. If they wash their own clothes, they get paid for that because that's usually "my" job.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

My kids are older and have chores. They do not get paid to do them. Everyone who lives in the house, can help keep it clean, lovely and running smoothly.


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## Tori Gollihugh (Jun 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Starr*
I would write a list of chores for her to do and then next to it right a priveledge that will be taken away if the shore isn't done. Maybe that way she can connect that hey if I don't set the table for supper I don't get to use the computer for 24 hrs. or something like that. Then help her dictate a set time to do them. Maybe right when she comes home from school for the next half hour she can help with laundry. That way she won't put it off.

I plan to use a similar method for any potential problems I may have with the chores issue in the future. My parents did this with us, but were not CONSISTENT, so we knew what we didn't really have to do. As long as you stick to what you say you'll do, she'll do what you say!









Also, when I was 11 my family had a rotating job list. The different jobs I was responsible for at different times were:
sweep (daily) and mop (weekly) kitchen/hall, sweep (daily) and mop (weekly) living room, sort laundry, wash laundry, unload the dishwasher, wash handwashable dishes, load dishwasher... and lots more. Then I also had jobs that were just mine all the time... like my bedroom and taking care of my own clothes when they were clean, etc.

I'm not THE most organized person, IMO, but I'm complimented frequently for my organization. And my house it clean, though does get cluttered occassionally. Anyway... hope this was more help.

The first time I responded, I was just responding to the question regarding whether 11 was too young to have chores and since my 2 year old DOES have chores, I definitely wouldn't think 11 was too young!


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## CerridwenLorelei (Aug 28, 2002)

I ran our household when I was nine
Latch key had not been a word yet but that is what I was.
I did everyone's laundry-wash dry put away
cooked dinner and had it on the table when they came home
cleaned the house all of it
and I was only nine...


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## daekin (Jan 29, 2006)

11?
Ally is 18 months, and already has "chores" She picks up all of her toys before she takes her bath at night. Took a couple days of a bit of a struggle, but she just needs a gentle reminder now.


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## Shenjall (Sep 14, 2002)

Quote:

I would write a list of chores for her to do and then next to it right a priveledge that will be taken away if the shore isn't done. Maybe that way she can connect that hey if I don't set the table for supper I don't get to use the computer for 24 hrs. or something like that. Then help her dictate a set time to do them. Maybe right when she comes home from school for the next half hour she can help with laundry. That way she won't put it off.
This is very good advice.
Since 11 yr olds can be very good at pleading their case, a reminder that things change - just b/c it wasnt this way before doesnt mean you cant start now!

When my stepkids moved in with us full time years ago, the oldest was 10 and youngest was 4. They didnt do "chores" before. So, we started them(chores) with them at an older age, so I understand where you're coming from. It worked out fine, now they do them w/o having to be told....sometimes.

Set up a plan, be consistent, and it should work out fine. Remember, they can whine all they want while they are doing their chore.


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## Liam's_Momma (Aug 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CerridwenLorelei*
I ran our household when I was nine
Latch key had not been a word yet but that is what I was.
I did everyone's laundry-wash dry put away
cooked dinner and had it on the table when they came home
cleaned the house all of it
and I was only nine...

could have written it myself...


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

My DD 6 hrows a fit about the smallest amount of choredom... it's very annoying. I even offer to pay them and they do anything to get out of it. It's sad, really.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

Definately not too young! All 3 of my kids have thier chores to do and it varies on behavior as well. They all vary depending on age too but ranges from picking up room, folding thier *own* laundry or just putting it away to putting the dog on the rope to use the bathroom in the morning before school. My 7 year old (well almost 7) has one extra one that she gets if she gets sassy with me after school. Sometimes she gets kinda mouthy and I've started making her help with dinner dishes if her evening is not going well. Not only does she get an appropriate punishment for her behavior but I can find out whats going on with her because we have one on one time to talk.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

You may need to do with her what I have to do to myself some days. Going on the computer and talking on the phone is allowed to happen when that day's chores are done.


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## laralou (Nov 27, 2001)

Since this is an issue all parents deal with, I am moving this to Parenting Issues where you can get more responses.


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## Yooper (Jun 6, 2003)

I only have a 2.5 yo and am not a fan of required "chores" for any age, so I cannot help you there.

But I did want to let you know that I was never required to do chores growing up. I got an allowance but it was not tied to whether I helped around the house or not. My mom never taught me how to cook or clean anything and is in fact one of the worst housekeepers I have ever met. I was much more willing to pitch in and help than my "list of weekly chores" friends were. If the kitchen was a mess, I would try and clean it up when the mood struck me (which was pretty often). I wouldn't think twice about folding laundry or swicthing it from wahser to dryer at a young age. I started doing my own laundry at around age 10 because my mom was always behind. Whenever I did mine, I threw in whatever was piled on the floor. And despite the fact that i grew up in a very messy house, was never taught to do anything, and was never forced to do chores, I am now a meticulous housekeeper and cook. So my point being that I would not worry to much about how your dd will "turn out". Chances are it has more to do with temperment and personal preferences than what they are required to do as teens. In other words, I do not think you can "make" a good housekeeper.


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## heartmama (Nov 27, 2001)

It was important to me that ds do chores willingly, because he really truly understood the meaning of chores, the distribution of fair living, and the spirit of community.

The way we did this was to sit down and put the chores in a larger context. We talked about the fact that anywhere he is ever going to live, he will create work just by living in a space, and if he did not help do that work, others would have to do it. We talked about the way others would feel if they did all the work and he did not (resentful, tired, not interested in doing fun things as much). I pointed out that dh and i are just the other people that ds lives with at this point in his life. I pointed out the ways that ds doing chores would keep the home running, keep us happier with him, give us more time together, and so on. I said very honestly that if I lived with someone who never helped and always added to the work, I wouldn't really like sharing a house with that person, and would probably be irritated with them frequently.

From that point of view we talked about what chores ds wanted to do. He has surprised me. He likes to clean bathrooms, for example.

I had *HIM* draw up a list. I had him draw a picture of each chore he would commit to do each day and write a short description. He put the list on his door.

Ds has several pets and I made it clear when he got the pets that these would be cared for in part by him, so this is also part of his daily chores.

I do not ask ds to keep his room a certain way. The chores he does help everyone, and his room is really up to him.

Ds is 9 and his daily chores might be:

Clean up the bathrooms
Feed the cats breakfast
Feed the rabbits and refill the water bottles
Feed the fish
Empty the dishwasher

For the most part ds does this all with a good attitude. Any complaining or resistance and I generally say straight out "If you are going to complain then you can't do these chores. It's not fair to make people feel bad that you have helped them. That isn't any way to treat your family". It is not enough to me that he do the chores~it is essential to me that he do them for the right reason, and that he do them because he see's that he owes it to the household to help out in some way. If he really can't see it then I'd rather do it myself and let him sit and think about my words.

Generally I just trust that if the expectation is clear and he knows the facts of getting along he really wants too get along and be helpful. It just has to be very clear what is expected without it being a battle or challenge. I have never been one to "make" ds do things because as I said, he must do them for the right reason or I'd rather he not do anything I ask at all. This has worked for us, and ds is a truly helpful kid, and does things with a good attitude, I think because it isn't a demand, but rather just the right thing for him to do.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

When I was 11 years old, if I didn't do my own laundry it didn't get done. Seriously. I would just stop doing her chores for her. How does her clothing get clean if she doesn't do it? She'll learn that it's important.

As to keeping her room and such clean... well, there I probably won't be too much help. I draw the line at bad smells and animal life. If either of those things appear, I'd bag everything up and sell it/donate it/throw it away, because those things make life difficult for other members of the household. It'll be difficult, but you'll probably only have to do it once...


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

My children start chores when they can walk from point A to point B. part of the problem may be that you waited so lo0ng to give her responsibilities.

For the time being you may need to do her chores with her. This will give her lots of positive attention from you, teach her to do them properly, ensure follow through and nip dawddeling (sp?) in the bud and give you a chance to help her form a positive attitude about work. it might take longer each day but eventually will make things go more smoothly.


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## oldcrunchymom (Jun 26, 2002)

My kids are 10 and almost 8. Their main "chore" is making sure everything they took out during the day is put away by bedtime. Also, if they spill something or make a mess they generally clean it up by themselves (this isn't something I've enforced; it just sort of naturally evolved). When they're done eating they put their dishes by/in the sink. My daughter has pet rats and she takes them out each day for some play time. They aren't allowed to leave wrappers, string, etc on the floor because of the cat so they are good at keeping junk off the floor and in the trash. They are both pretty good at cleaning their rooms, although my daughter's stays way neater than my son's. That's about it for the daily stuff.

Cleaning isn't tied to consequences/punishment in our house, except for making me cranky if they don't do it. So far that's been motivation enough.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

My dd is 13 and is like yours, too busy to do chores! She avoids them and it is a huge battle and it is just so exhausting to make her do it.
Sometimes I do but sometimes she will promise she will do somethign before she goes to bed, I go to bed first and of course it doesnt get done.







:

I dont think 11 is too young for chores. I think at 11 it is almost too late. Although my dd loved helping and doing chores and cooking at 4. She does far less at 13 than she did at 4 believe it or not.
This is something we are working on and have just started a token economy to keep track of responsibilities/priviledges.

Sorry this is so hard for you, I wish I had the answer. (BOY do I wish!!!)
I am right there with you.
Joline
p.s. My 3 year old is more likely to pick up his laundry and take his dinner plate into the kitchen than my 13 year old.


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## Nora'sMama (Apr 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *marybethorama*

I did lots of chores and cooking, my mom was a great housekeeper and I ended up clueless.

I think doing chores IS a good thing and that those are good skills to have but it doesn't guarantee that your dd will grow up to be a good housekeeper.









:


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## Suzetta (Dec 21, 2003)

You can be sure of one thing...if you give on on this topic, you child will be empowered to try even harder to get her way on other things. You really have to have a solid plan for setting your standards.

My 2 yo can't "help" me enough, but I am sure that as she gets older that will change. I like the idea of having a list. I remember my mom would make a list of things that we could choose from.

I think that to avoid a power struggle, you need to be creative to find ways to let your dd feel empowered. "because I said so" just doesn't seem to work as they get older.


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## mamaverdi (Apr 5, 2005)

ITA 11 is almost to old to just start doing chores. You're going to have to do a lot more hand-holding than you would have had to do at an earlier age. When my baby was 19 months, he did tiny chores: he gets a towel and wipes up spills for instance. Around here, everyone is expected to do what is reasonable for their age and ability. We constantly reevaluate what that is exactly.


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

I never had any set chores growing up and I didn't have an allowance either. My dd is 10 and ds 7, and to be honest, I'm having a hard time coming up with chores for them to do! Unloading the dishwasher is out as our cupboards are too high for them to reach. It would be, get a plate, push chair to cupboard, climb on chair, put plate away, get down, push chair out of the way, get a plate..etc..

Taking out trash and recyclables to curb is too much for me some weeks. Those bins are heavy! I do the vaccuuming and floor cleaning when they're at school. I don't push them to really pick up their rooms either--it's their room, their stuff. Neither are money motivated--there's nothing they want. DD has some developmental issues, so I don't feel comfortable giving her unsupervised freedom to cook supper or clean the bathroom.

Huh..come to think of it, I guess it boils down to I really don't care that much one way or another.


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## Krystal323 (May 14, 2004)

Wow--when I first read the title I thought it said 11 *months*







and I thought, "well, if the babe can toddle over to the laundry hamper with a dirty shirt, i suppose..." :LOL

I was an only child, and my mom never had me lift a finger, thinking it was quicker to just do stuff herself. But then when I was a teenager, she didn't understand why I wouldn't help out, now that I was *"old enough to be efficient"*. Well, simple. I never had a habit formed of trying to help.

At this late stage in the game, maybe it would be better to do chores together--like, instead of "you have to go to X now", it could be "please come and help me do X now." Don't tack "okay?" onto the end or make it sound like a question. Even if she just sits with you and watches how it's done, it's a start.

Also, maybe try not to sound as if the chores are drudgery. The fact is, we all need to understand that some things simply have to happen to run a household and take care of a family. And it shouldn't be "oh I HATE doing dishes and laundry!", it should be more like "well, if we want clean clothes to wear and don't want to litter the Earth with paper plates, we ought to take care of the dishes and laundry!"

We always have a choice, and I try to make it clear to my kids that...it's a more sensible choice to sweep the floors than to have ants constantly living with us, for example!









Good luck with this; hope my ramble was helpful somehow


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

A HA!
I just remembered, at 11 my DD responded well to the choices game.
We would pick a time where we had to do chores. And she woudl come to me and I would give her two options, and she woudl choose between them and complete one of them
Then she would come back to me and I woudl give her two more choices.
"Clean your bathroom counter and sink, or wash the back door window"
"put your laundry in the hamper or wipe down the front door"
This doesnt work well anymore, as she has really matured in her resistance.
But a couple of years ago it worked like a charm.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

I'm another person who ran the household by age 11! LOL.

My oldest kid is 9.5 yo. and he does chores very willingly. He maybe a little weird though. He's really into the whole concept of homemaking. Is interested and involved in decorating and organizing, etc. Though maybe its more than just temperment because my 5 yo. really likes to have responsibilities and be involved in cleaning as well.

I don't have a posted chore list for them, though the oldest takes care of his own laundry. I've given him Saturday mornings to use the laundry room and I stay out of it. He also makes his own breakfast and packs his own lunches most of the time. Once a week or so he also makes a simple dinner for himself and his brother.

It works best for us to make choices on a daily basis. If Ds doesn't feel like doing dishes on a given day, I may ask him to sort some laundry instead and I will do the dishes. I'm always open to trading tasks! If they ever started slacking or fighting me on a consistant basis, I might well just resort to posting a schedule. But I would ask the kids to have input on what chores they were assigned. They will do a better job if they chose the task, kwim?


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama*
It was important to me that ds do chores willingly, because he really truly understood the meaning of chores, the distribution of fair living, and the spirit of community.

The way we did this was to sit down and put the chores in a larger context. We talked about the fact that anywhere he is ever going to live, he will create work just by living in a space, and if he did not help do that work, others would have to do it.

I am with you heartmama. I would have a family meeting. Everyone sits down together to discuss how things could get done around the house. Ask her what she would be willing to help with. Talk about what you're going to do differently. Keep in mind that it can be difficult to pick up new routines and change habits. It usually takes about a month of being very consistant with a new behavior before it becomes routine.


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## TinkerBelle (Jun 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nankay*
I never had any set chores growing up and I didn't have an allowance either. My dd is 10 and ds 7, and to be honest, I'm having a hard time coming up with chores for them to do! Unloading the dishwasher is out as our cupboards are too high for them to reach. It would be, get a plate, push chair to cupboard, climb on chair, put plate away, get down, push chair out of the way, get a plate..etc..

Taking out trash and recyclables to curb is too much for me some weeks. Those bins are heavy! I do the vaccuuming and floor cleaning when they're at school. I don't push them to really pick up their rooms either--it's their room, their stuff. Neither are money motivated--there's nothing they want. DD has some developmental issues, so I don't feel comfortable giving her unsupervised freedom to cook supper or clean the bathroom.

Huh..come to think of it, I guess it boils down to I really don't care that much one way or another.










They can sweep a floor, set the table, clear the table and use a swiffer or other light floor mop. They are also old enough to do light vacuming and pick up their rooms. They can also put dirty clothes in the laundry bin and put their folded clothes away. My 6 yr old mildly Autistic son can do these things. In our house, I feel it is important, especially for him, to be taught to keep a house and take care of their things. I am not a cleaning nut, or obsessive about it, but I want to raise my boys to be independent and teach them how to keep a house. I feel that boys especially, are sometimes looked over because their mothers (some, not all) feel it will be the son's WIFE's job to keep the house. I know my MIL feels this way.

I also want my future DILs to love me. LOL









I am not saying make your children your slaves. But, even if it is their room, teaching them to keep things tidy, (no obsession of course) is a part of being responsible and grown up.


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

See I don't think chores teach anything. My mom pounded me (figuratively) to keep my room clean..tried everything..nothing worked..clear through college, I was a slob. My brother's room was always neat as a pin. Today, it's MY house and I keep waaayyyy cleaner than anyone could have imagined it would be seeing what I was like as a kid. No, Mom didn't teach me to cook or do laundry, but I learned real quick when I was on my own and HAD to do it. Same with any other household chore. I found out what was important to me and learned to do it well to my standards. As for putting away their laundry..yeah, my kids do that, I never really thought of it as a chore before now. Huh..funny.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

While chores might not be necessary to know how to take care of yourself when you are older. YOu can learn that on your own when you want to.
I strongly believe that chores DO teach personal responsibility and cooperation within a group. I am a mom, not a maid. My kids need to learn to clean up after themselves and help keep their home nice because they live in it. They need to learn that it is not my purpose in life to make everythign uber-easy for them and do everything for them. That said, their rooms are their business (for the most part)


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nankay*
My dd is 10 and ds 7, and to be honest, I'm having a hard time coming up with chores for them to do! Unloading the dishwasher is out as our cupboards are too high for them to reach. It would be, get a plate, push chair to cupboard, climb on chair, put plate away, get down, push chair out of the way, get a plate..etc..

My 9 year old can do all of her own laundry. The other two are expcted to put thiers away. How they organize thier drawers is thier business so long as they open and close easily.

my baby sorts socks, wash cloths and silverware. I have to help her but whatever. she is doing her share.

my kids like to sweep. it often has to be redone.

10 and 7 are old enough to cook with help. also rinse dishes and load the dishwasher. again they may need some guidence until they get it.

washing and setting the table. washing countertops. washing windows and dusting are al great activities at this age. We own a business and my kids are expected to help clean there. (it will one day be thiers) thier jobs are dusting, straightening shelves and cleaning glass. They love it.

there is plenty of stuff a 10 and 7 year old can do but it wil involve you as much as them.

I htink chores are important bcause it gives them ownership of the home and builds an attitude of cooperation.


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

My dd shoulders a lot of personal responsibility while she is at school from 8 to 3. She also takes dance and belongs to an extra-curricular school acting/peformance group and is totally responsible for learning routines/lines/music. She only has so much time to be a kid and her whole adult life to be shouldered with nothing BUT responsibility. After 7 hours at school, kicking back with a good book, a video or computer game is all right with me.


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## 1growingsprout (Nov 14, 2005)

are a part of living this house. recently my 12 yr old niece came to live w. us she tried the whining and fit pitching, you need to stand your ground. DD these are your chores, chores are a part of living in this house, they are a responsibility like taking a shower and doing your homework.

at 11 she should be able to do laundry, dishes, clean, vaccumn, trash etc.. of course not all these at once however i feel it is our family responsibilty to teach children how to be self sufficient and self supporting.

if my 12 yr old does not do her chores she gets no TV/internet/phone social time until its done. chores first then play.

it will be a battle for a week or 2 just like any change in rules that pre-teens teens dont like, however you MUST stand firm and not let her rule the roost, so to speak,

refusing to do chores today, refusing to listen to curfew, refusing to comply with education standards... whats next... YOU are the parent, NO DISCUSSION


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

Oy.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Nankay*
Oy.

















:


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## swimswamswum (Oct 26, 2005)

My sister and I had lots of chores- our parents weren't mean, just busy and thought that it was part of our responsibility as people sharing a house to do some of the work. They also wanted us to be functioning adults and know how the world works. I am really glad that we had to do chores- I think it made me into a more responsible adult. On the other hand, my college roommate's mom never let her do anything and she was TOTALLY lost at college. Small, menial tasks really were taxing for her and her time management skills were, um, off (she remains a very close friend and has recovered from all of this). Her parents did her NO favors by doing everything for her.


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:

Small, menial tasks really were taxing for her and her time management skills were, um, off (she remains a very close friend and has recovered from all of this). Her parents did her NO favors by doing everything for her.
I have to agree.

I spent 5 odd years managing young women employees in a retail setting. Many of them still lived at home or had moved out recently. I have to say that the best employees were those that had been taught to take responsibilty for chores and tasks at home when they were kids. The ones who were never expected to pitch in at home were really slow, unreliable, and intolerant of the simplest tasks in the store.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

intresting mamaduck . . . .


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## Nankay (Jan 24, 2002)

Ok, I admitted it before..I rarely had set chores to do and my kids don't have any regular chores--they put their laundry in the hamper, put away clean folded clothes..

I still can't figure out how to squeeze in daily chores. Unloading the dishwasher is out, loading the dishwasher after supper would use up what little time they have before bed with their dad., vaccuuming, huh, I don't think the 7 yr old could do it and my 10 yr old freaks at the noise. Lawn mowing? nooooo, sweeping the floor ..MAYBE, but I grab a broom and do it when needed. Should I leave crumbs on the floor all day just to ait for dd to get home from school to sweep them up? I know I sound like I'm making excuses, but chores just aren't that important to us .


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## mamaduck (Mar 6, 2002)

Nankay -- I don't think anyone is telling you to make a change. If you all are happy with the system, then don't worry about it! The OP seemed to want a change though, and we were validating her reasons for doing that.

My kids do a lot of housework, and we don't have set chores either. I just watch for oppurtunities to delegate chores, rather than taking everything on myself. Like, "Hey, since you are ready for school early, can you unload the dishwasher?" Or "Would you might sorting the laundry?" And I give my little guy the vacuum hose now and then to suck up crumbs after a meal. Or the little sweeper. Its just as time allows, you know?

I also keep a list on the fridge of the things that need to be done on a daily basis, weekly basis, and then 1x or 2x a month. If they are inclined to pick something appropriate -- the options are there. And they DO. Especially if I am gone for the day at school or work or whatever.

No -- I won't let them mow the lawn either. But the haul the empty trash cans back from the curb after the trashmen come. And they help with a big garden every summer.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

nankay, I actually agree with your statement about letting kids be kids and not loading on too many chores, especially during the school week. The "daily" things my dss does (like taking out the trash) really only happen every other day and only takes a couple of minutes. He also makes his lunch in the mornings, as well as prepares a daily dietary supplement (medically necessary). The bigger stuff like helping dad with yardwork, cleaning his room, helping clean the bathroom, etc all happen on the weekend.

Aside from mom doing everything and kids doing nothing, I think each family needs to decide what works for them. It sounds like your children are learning responsibility in other ways aside from chores (after school activities, school itself) and if you are not overwhelmed with keeping the household running, then don't go changin' for us!







I will admit much of the help I get from my dss is just that - HELP - and I _need_ it. I just can't keep up with every little thing around here and he is certainly old enough (13) to pitch in. Also, my dss has some special needs (developmental delays and some cognitive limitations) and if we don't explicitly teach him how to do some of these things (cleaning a bathroom sink or doing laundry) he will likely NOT just pick it up by observing. He needs more direct instruciton than that, so we give it to him and then set a reasonable expectation. We find it really helps him in feeling independent and self-sufficient and builds his self-esteem. Sure, he would rather we just do it all for him (what 13 yr old wouldn't?







), but we see that he is becoming more confident in his abilities and he has started to ask to learn how to do things like cook and fix things around the house. So we are staying on this track. But like I said, if you are comfortable with your track, then stay on it.







I think as long as there are expectations of children to fulfull responsibilites, whatever those responsibilities are, then they are being well served.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Nankay- it doesn't sound like you want your kids to do chores. and if that works for you fine. if you did you could find some easily. And I think they are capable of doing everything you said they couldn't with a little instruction. Don't underestemate them. but if you don't want them to then fine. don't worry about it. You don't need to defend your choices here.

my kids are happy to help. They have never known anything different. It gives them a since of accomplichment. it doesn't take them all day (if they are cooperative) and there is still plenty of time for them to be kids.







:


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## boomingranny (Dec 11, 2003)

my dd is almost 8. She sets the table and is expected to clean her room when it gets out of control. She gets a little allowance. She saves it up to buy something she wants, but I wont buy her. My expectation is that she contribute to our household in some way...part of living in a community.


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## Elowyn (Nov 3, 2003)

I would think 11 is old enough to do quite a few things. At 12 I was making dinner every night & setting the table, and helping with cleanup afterwards (unloading d/w while mom loaded it, etc.) I was also responsible for sharing in the cleaning (I'd mop while someone else dusted, or vice versa.) I don't think it's ever to early for chores that are physically & mentally possible & safe.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

My 17 yo has been doing her laundry since she was 10. If she doesn't do it, she does not get to wear clean clothes. She scoops the catbox each morning, makes sure the chickens have food/water, and makes sure the pet water inside is full. She also unloads the dishwasher, or loads it, whichever is needed. This is before school. When she comes home she is expected to do one other household chore, such as vacuuming/straightening up a room/area, sweeping the kitchen, cleaning the bathrooms, etc... If she does not do them (or doesn't do them thoroughly) she gets to do it again, plus another chore of my choice. VERY rarely does she have to do extra because she has learned from the beginning to do it right the first time. We work hard to pay the bills, give our children a nice roof over their heads, lots of healthy food to eat, and all that good stuff. The least they can do is to help out around the house. My teen also does little things here and there when asked.

My 7 yo empties or loads the dishwasher, whichever is needed, in the afternoon. She brings me her dirty laundry, and then folds it and puts it away after it's clean. She rakes out the chicken coops, and helps feed the horse. She cleans her room really well at least once a month, including vacuuming. She feeds the dogs each day.

My 5 yo is responsible for a good room cleaning once a month. this also includes vacuuming. He will also pick up toys out of various rooms, and vacuum the floor in that room when asked. He 'spot cleans' the kitchen floor w/a spray bottle of vinegar water and a rag. He loves it! He also helps w/other things when asked, like picking up things the dogs have chewed up outside, lol.

All of us weed the garden and harvest the food. We all help w/washing the harvest, preparing it (snapping peas, beans, etc..), and they all love to help prepare supper.

My teen is such a wonderful cook she spent 3 hrs preparing a very special and romantic meal for myself and dh. It was all new stuff we hadn't tried before, and it was WONDERFUL! It was all yummy, exciting North Indian foods. She wants to cook more, but doesn't have the time because of schoolwork.

My little ones will be helping much more very soon since I'm newly pg, and big sis is going away for 5 wks this summer.

I've 'caught' my teen encouraging her younger siblings to do their chores w/out griping because then they will know how to do things for themselves when they are older. She tells them they are lucky to get to learn, as some of her friends don't even know how to turn on the washing machine.

My house is certainly not spotless--it is WELL lived-in, lol. But it is soo important to learn to do for yourself!!

Oh, and we do not pay $ for them helping our household. If they need/want $ for something special, they ask, and they receive if we are able to give.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

One more thing....my children ask for chores. They love to help out, and realize that mom and dad have more time to spend doing fun stuff if we all aren't bogged down w/all the work that needs to be done. And griping is allowed, but only for so long, lol. If it continues, they will get a privelige taken away for a day, or until they just suck it up and do the chore. If they really don't care for a particular chore, I have no problem discussing it w/them, but it doens't always mean that it will change. But we do communicate our feelings.


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## brown eyed girls (Jan 2, 2006)

i really think chores must start MUCH earlier than 11. My 12 yo has been doing regular chores since he was 5... and always did them well and cheerfully until he turned 11.... this last year has been a struggle with him. So I think that *beginning* chores at that age, with no younger sibs doing chores, would be like pulling teeth!

My 2yo helps me with everything around the house... she sweeps with a little broom, she uses little washies to wash walls, doors and whatever else she can reach. LOL... she folds washcloths, and she helps me cook all the time-- I give her a potato peeler and a potato and she just goes after carving that sucker while I get the real supper on. When I'm done, I'll take the one she carved and rinse it off, slice it up and add it to the supper with lots of "THANKS" to her. She always loves to eat her potato.







She is learning to help set the table.

My 4yo can do anything in the regular chore rotation with a helper... right now usually my 9, 10, or 12yo helps him. He can clean the bathroom, sort laundry, use the washing machine, fold all his own clothes and put them away, load and unload the d/w, set the table, help make salad, knead dough, and he can scoop the litter box and take out the trash.

My 7yo can do anything I ask her to do, usually competently. My 9, 10 and 12 yo's could run the house and cook meals if necessary. They love being capable and smart... they just don't always *choose* to do it all cheerfully.









If you look at Elizabeth Pantley's book "Hidden Messages" and on her website, she talks about how we give our kids a hidden message that they are not capable, dependable or smart enough to help out when we don't give them the responsibility. She has great lists of chores for different age levels, too. She talks about it's our job to raise ADULTS, and they need to learn the skills while they are young, because we can't expect them to magically know how to keep house, cook, clean and fend for themselves at 18 if we haven't trained them to do so from a young age.


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## brown eyed girls (Jan 2, 2006)

_But they haul the empty trash cans back from the curb after the trashmen come._

My boys have been doing this for 2 years.... oh, not just for me... but for several people in the neighborhood! They started when they were 8 and 7, and now they are 10 and 9. They charge $2 a month to the neighbors. They call it Trash Can Business and I recently gave them the permission to expand their services further in the neighborhood. Up to now they've only been allowed to advertise their services on our street (only 42 houses, they have 5 clients). They would like to get more clients, though, and have earned the privilege by showing responsibility-- now they are making flyers to start advertising their business on the next several streets! They figure they have time to double their business with at least 5 more clients. They are very excited about how much money they can earn and save.

Quite the little entrepreneurs huh? They also decided that with a good long handled broom and mop and one of those spray cleaners you stick on the end of a waterhose, they will also advertise washing out the big brown curbside trash bins for $5. And maybe start washing cars for $5 too.


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## Starflower (Sep 25, 2004)

I also agree that chores need to be started early. My DD is 2-1/2 and she feels left out if she doesn't get to help with stuff. (Yeah, at her age, help is often not so helpful, but I want her to feel like part of the family.)

My own parents always had chores for us to do and I HATED doing them. Part of the reason I think I hated the chored so much was that I got lonely. We didn't really do them together. Or my parents would do lawn work with my brother and have me inside the house cleaning out the mildew on the shower - alone.

The other thing was that we were only allowed to do things fun or with friends IF all the chores were all done. This usually meant Saturdays. I think it would've been much more effective if my parents had taught me to organize my own schedule and get most of the chores done in little bits during the week, rather than doing a whole bunch on Saturdays with a "dangling carrot" waiting: friends.

I still have trouble doing chores and keeping house, but with a toddler, I HAVE to do things in little increments here and there or nothing ever gets done. And, I still have trouble getting to the "big" chores (which are usually cluttered accumulations of procrastinated little chores). Why? It's boring and lonely.....and did I say boring? I can clean an entire room very well if I have someone to talk to while doing it. But otherwise I get distracted by every little thing. DH is even worse. Then once in awhile we go on a cleaning binge which usually either involves DD watching a movie for distraction or hiring a babysitter so we can just get stuff done. Not how I'd like to spend our time together when DH isn't working.

Obviously, at our house, we're still working on the chore issue both as adults, and with DD. Hopefully, we'll all learn together and our DD will be better off in her adult years.


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## applejuice (Oct 8, 2002)

Chores should start as early as five. Sweeping up a kitchen floor, folding clothes, hanging clothes, putting toys away, helping to make a bed, or wiping a table are easy chores that help children feel part of the household and let them know they are part of its running efficiently. Doing an extra chore I would pay them for, or no complaining.


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## Hera (Feb 4, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *heartmama*
It was important to me that ds do chores willingly, because he really truly understood the meaning of chores, the distribution of fair living, and the spirit of community.

The way we did this was to sit down and put the chores in a larger context. We talked about the fact that anywhere he is ever going to live, he will create work just by living in a space, and if he did not help do that work, others would have to do it. We talked about the way others would feel if they did all the work and he did not (resentful, tired, not interested in doing fun things as much). I pointed out that dh and i are just the other people that ds lives with at this point in his life. I pointed out the ways that ds doing chores would keep the home running, keep us happier with him, give us more time together, and so on. I said very honestly that if I lived with someone who never helped and always added to the work, I wouldn't really like sharing a house with that person, and would probably be irritated with them frequently.











This is pretty much what we do with our 6yo, and it bears lots of repeating. She has days when she wants to do tons of stuff. She can spray and wipe the bathroom sinks, clear the table, set the table (and decorate the table and make place cards







) She likes to throw her laundry down the stairs and then gather it for me to wash.

I like Eilonwy's suggestion to, I'm working on teaching her how to do laundry so we can get to this point.

I do pay her, she gets a quarter per chore in her piggy bank. We actually have a magnet board where she keeps track of this stuff.


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## mamarhu (Sep 12, 2004)

My household runs about like Nankay's (too many posts to quote a single one). Generally, I do the housework around here, and I ask for help when I need/want it. I don't like the word "chore" - it makes any activity sound distasteful. DD10 enjoys cooking, and dinner is sometimes ready when I get home from work. If I demanded that of her, it would take the joy out of it. Same with cleaning/organizing - she loves interior decorating types of projects, and will occassionally rearrange the living room or organize the linen closet just for something to do. Sometimes, I'll give her $10 or 20 (much less than a maid would charge!) when she does an extra good job. I see it as a concrete way to show my appreciation, rather than payment for chores.

I do ask the Dumplings to put their dishes in the sink - they understand that moldy dishes sitting around would be gross. And I want towels hung up after a bath so they don't mildew.

DS9 has developmental issues, and cleaning even his own room is overwhelming to him. Once in a while, I break it down into stages that he can handle, "Please pick up everything made of fabric and put it on the bed". This creates a mountain of blankets, laundry, and stuffed animals that he can sort into 3 piles. Then I ask him to gather all the trash into a bag. If the floor is clear enough to walk across, he is finished. It is his own problem if 1,000 toys are out. He doesn't like me or anyone else to come in his room, so it really doesn't affect my life if it is a mess.

Once in a while, I want to get the place really clean - for guests or whatever. I will write a list of everything that needs to be done. This is for me as much as the Dumplings. I'll figure out how much time it should take, and then put it to them like, "If we can get this all done by noon, we'll have time to go to a movie (or museum, or out to lunch or whatever) before Aunt Linda gets here." Then we crank up Bob Marley (our traditional housework music) and all hustle. I guess it's bribery, but it is for me too! If no one helps, it will take me longer, but I save a few bucks. I don't mind either way.


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

wow thanks for all the replies. we just moved so I was off line for 2 weeks! Well I am going to write a list of chores and priveledges that will be taken away if they are not done. I have tried to reason with her on her level and appeal to her sympathy that hey I am just a person like you why should I be the only one cleaning up everyones mess in the house? it works for maybe a minute then she forgets and goes on like before. I hate setting up this written routine but I think its the only thing that works. I have tried taking away priveledges before and it was the only thing that got her to do anything! I just did not stick with it and it looks like I will be more strict about it now. thank you-at least I know I am not alone!








btw- I did have her do mini chores when she was a toddler on up and we are still here now! good luck mamas!


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## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

Argh! I came her to post for help on this issue!!!!

We have a list of things we would like the kids to do every morning and every night. It is not extensive, and some ofit is repetetive--like, if they did their am list, they wouldn't have to do everything in their pm list. It is things like make your bed, put your clothes in their proper places, make sure your pets are taken care of---food and water, clean cages/environments, get backpack ready for school, wash face and hands, brush teeth and hair. Not rocket science, not that demanding.

Can I get the 10 year old to do these things? NO!

Before the list, I would nag. Then I wrote this funny little satirical piece about how to get ready in the morning. Then I made a bright flow chart, with stickers, drawings, etc. Then I nagged some more. Now we are at the checklist.

We used to *not* tie their chores to money, as *I* don't get any money for any chores. It is a household, and we are all working together to keep it clean. We live in a VERY small house, every living space is shared, so it is no good to say they can keep their rooms sloppy if they want--they can't, because the toys are in the youngest ones room, the books and piano and typewriter are in the oldest's room (THEIR choice, when they decided to have seperate rooms). Even my husband and I's "room" which is in reality a sleeping loft in a hallway to nowhere, is a shared space, as that is where our tv is.

But now we are tying some money and priviledges to all this. If they TELL me their lists are finished, and I inspect them and they are NOT (not nit-picky), then they owe me a dollar for each item that they did not do. If they do all their items, then each week they get an extra dollar added to their allowance.

And yet, STILL, my oldest, who is a slob, cannot do this. It is SOOOOOO frustrating!! I just don't know what to do with her. She is spacey as 10 year olds can be; perhaps even a bit more distracted. It is not a problem in school, however, EXCEPT her sloppiness. Her desk is a mess. She often can't find homework because it has been shoved into her backpack, crumpled to the bottom, and forgotten.

Today, I asked if her list was finished. Yes. But why is there no laundry in the laundry basket? I went into her room--the floor is covered with clothes, the bed is not made, and the mouse has no food. Have you brushed your teeth? No. ARGH! So I told her I was withholding her allowance until she got her room in order; she has three days.

I cannot live like this! Okay, vent over.

We have explained before that part of chores are showing respect for others in your household. For example, if you throw your clothes on the floor, and you walk all over them, they tear and are ruined much more quickly. That is disrespectful to the person who purchased them for you. If you let the mouse cage stink to high heaven, that is disrespectful to the mouse and to your fellow housemates. If you allow mold to grow in your room, that is disrespectful (AND DANGEROUS!!) to your father and sister, who have asthma and many allergies and an anaphylactic shock reaction to penicillin. If I didn't buy food for you, that would be disrespectful. If I didn't pay the bills for the electricity and water, that would be disrespectful and irresponsible. We have tried, numerous times, to tie everything together, about respect for work, for responsibilities, and for keeping everyone in our household happy and healthy.

Maybe we need to go over this again.

I also like the idea of maybe making a list, and letting herchoose her chores. There are a few things I am not going to compromise on (like cleaning her mouse cage, or making her bed--because she chooses to let the dog sleep on her bed, and then her sheets get filthy if the bed isn't made with the dog blanket on top). And we did this probably a year ago; but maybe it is time to do it again.

Maybe make a list of chores that need to be done around the house, and ask her to pick a certain amount. Let her decide what needs to be done daily, and what she can do in bits and pieces over the week, or wait until the weekend to do, her choice.

I ask her all the time-is the list not working for you? What do you suggest? Do you have any other ideas? She just shrugs.

We have a great relationship otherwise. This is the main sticking point. We had to do something, because getting ready in the morning was such a battle, it was making us late, no matter what time we got up. Her sister is clean and tidy, and woudl be terribly upset about being late. The school even sent a letter and we received phone calls from the social worker about the frequent tardies (because they WERE excessive). So, in an effort to not be nagging all the time, we made the lists. So now, when I see someone standing around, or reading before school, I ask, Is your list done? instead of nag.

But it still isnt' working!!

Anyway, thanks for the forum for bouncing ideas around and the rant, so I can get it out of my system here and just be helpful and positive when i talk to my dd about it!


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

Well, maybe I'll get flamed for this, maybe not, but there has been a time in the past that I've run into major problems w/my teen and chores. Seems like she was around your dd's age at the time, too, loridjs, so maybe there's a connection w/the age? Anyway, I had to get very, very stern (some may say mean) with her, and it didn't take long for her to straighten up. We had a similar issue w/a gerbil that wouldn't get a clean cage. I took the gerbil away. That didn't seem to bother my dd, and the gerbil died soon after, which also didn't seem to bother her (sad, I know). She wouldn't take her dishes to the kitchen (found moldy ones under her bed EWWWW!), so I took away her privlige of eating in her room. She wouldn't do her laundry, so she had dirty clothes. She wouldn't clean her room (and I'm not *that* picky, we just need to be able to walk thru there and not break our necks), so I began removing everything that was left on her floor and donating it to charity. She didn't clean out the chicken waterer (it was NASTY and green and slimy which obviously isn't healthy for our birds!), so I made her spend an entire Saturday scrubbing it, raking out the coops, replacing bedding, hauling compost to the garden, etc....We are big believers in manual labor for unruly children. It helps them to work off their stresses and allows them to get a better taste of the things it really takes to run this place! Problems were solved. I mean, my kids aren't perfect, but they know to do their fair share around here, or they may have to spend an entire day working because we always have PLENTY of jobs that need to be done. Backtalking about it doesn't do any good either, because we have lots of weeds to be pulled, floors to be swept, animals to be groomed, poop to be scooped (horses poop ALOT, lol), compost to be hauled, dirt to be spread, etc....I of course allow lots of communication and discussions, but I don't speak to them in a mean way, and I will not have them talking to me that way. I hth in some way. I could go on forever....


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

Now,I have my dd do more when she doesn't do what needs to be done on her list-I hate being a nag and keep reminding or asking if its done. so i don't and then in the middle of the day I notice the morning chore isn't done-when this happens she has to do more than her share. It seems to work because less and less I have to remind her.
good luck mamas


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## CherylAnn (Aug 23, 2005)

I had cousins whose mom did everything for them. They didn't lift a finger. They are both productive, tidy adults now.

However, I still really want my kids to grow up having chores. I think it gives them a sense of accomplishment in addition to the responsibility training. It cracks me up to hear my 8 yo lecture us on efficient use of the dishwasher. My 11 yo loads the dishwasher and handwashes anything that doesn't fit, cleans 50% of the main bathroom, keeps her room clean (in theory and usually in practice) and helps out in any other way that she is asked. Chores aren't an option, so there isn't any battle. The only thing we have set up as a battleground is room cleaning because it doesn't happen every day and it can get really bad!! She'll also take the initiative to start dinner if she's hungry and I'm not getting to it quickly enough. My 8 yo unloads the dishwasher (she uses a kitchen stool because she can't reach anything otherwise) feeds the cats, cleans 50% of the main bathroom and keeps her room clean (in theory only, the little bug!). My 4 yo feeds the dog, keeps his room clean (he's a natural) and jumps in to help in any other way he can! So far, with him, cleaning is fun! My kids argue over who gets to vacuum sometimes. LOL. I think that's because their Papa LOVES to vacuum and that enthusiasm is contagious (although I'm still trying to catch it). All three kids get to clean out the car once a week and they all put away their own clothes. I DO let the dishes sit all day and wait for dd's to do them. Room cleaning is the only thing that is really a battle and mostly just with dd #2. I don't know how she does it, but 20 minutes after she's organized her room until it's magazine cover-ready, it can be a disaster again! She really doesn't have any organizational system available to her besides bookshelves and her dresser, but we're moving soon to a house where each kid will have their own room and I'm going to have them pare down until there is a place for absolutely everything. I'll also provide some better storage solutions. My dh is a clean freak, and if he's happy, everyone is happy.


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

HI CA!!!!!!!! Nice to see ya here!








:

I seriously need to get Hanah more shelves and storage containers.....


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## CherylAnn (Aug 23, 2005)

LOL, Hi Vikki!!! I don't know how I didn't see you here until just this moment!! I'm still figuring out the boards. I miss posts sometimes.


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## LDSmomma6 (Oct 31, 2003)

If your 11 yr old isn't doing chores yet, she better not come to my house yet. Even my 2 yr old helps out. Everyone in my house does chores. It's their house too, and they need to help out to appreciate their stuff more, since I buy most of their WANTS (not needs) depending on how they are helping around the house with their chores.

My 17 yr old nephew has never had to work a day in his life. He is the laziest @$$ bum there is. I had him live with me for a while because they whole "feel so sorry for him...his dad is married to his 4th wife, his mom is on her 5th husband...never had a decent childhood, never got things he needed, etc..." After a few months, I basically kicked him out. He was so lazy, it was pathetic. He is back at his dad's house, and every single day his step mom is calling me asking what to do. I want to tell her he's a hopeless case. He won't get a job, won't get his license, won't do anything for his dad or step-mom, and expects all nice clothes, shoes and to be driven any where he wants. I am upset with him as well, because after all I did for him, he called me a liar the other day.









So, start them young. Don't wait until they are older to start chores. A 2 yr old can throw things away, help bring laundry, unload the pots and pans from the dishwasher. And I am sure there are many other helpful ideas.


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## Past_VNE (Dec 13, 2003)

Quote:

A 2 yr old can throw things away, help bring laundry, unload the pots and pans from the dishwasher. And I am sure there are many other helpful ideas.
Yep, I totally agree.

We don't/won't call them chores, because I just don't like the term. But, eh, that's just my opinion on that. I just found this thread fascinating, though, all the variations. DH and I both did a lot of tasks around the house, though neither of our families gave us a list of chores that were "ours." We just did the work along with our family members as it needed done. I had periods where I was not up to par on things, but it was short-lived.

Our 14 month old son puts away his trash upon request, cleans up pee or other messes, scrubs things without asking (because he sees me clean at work while he's in the Ergo) and is better with a shop-vac than many adults. (Also thanks to my job.) It's all fun and games to him right now, but it does set the stage, I believe.

Good luck in your endeavor to make changes, chandraj!


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## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

I wonder if part of our problem is that I do alot of my cleaning and household chores during the day, when my kids are at school. I work nights, so I sleep and do my errands, cleaning, and laundry during the daytime, when they aren't around to see me or for me to ask them for help. On weekends I typically sleep for a good chunk of the day, and then get up in the late afternoon, to hang out with them, fix supper, and eat before I work. If we were all on the same schedule, it woudl be easier for me to say, hey, can scrub the tub while I work on the sink and toilet? But that's not how it works around here currently.

I will note that elementary school aged and older are a whole 'nother beast than the wee ones. I never every had a problem with my children helping out with household duties until they got older, spent more time in school, and got their own lives, basically. It's so much easier in the summer, when they and dh are off (he's a teacher).

Maybe we should try to change our schedules around, and I should have my awake time in the am on the weekends, so that we could have a family clean up time. Problem is, after working for 13+hours, I realy don't want to come home and clean. Hmm, my problem, I know.

It is really interesting to read all the different problems and solutions people have experienced in their families. Definately food for thought.


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## minmoto2 (Dec 23, 2004)

I know I'm a lil late joining this thread, but wanted to post my 'chore' experience w/my 11yo dd. My 11yo has had jobs since she was about 6 or 7 & they continue to grow or build on each other every year. Currently her jobs include :

*dishes nightly..including clearing dinner table, emptying & loading dishwasher, wiping down countertops & table..
*all hamster care, including cleaning hamster cage weekly
*cleaning room...at least occasionally








*cleaning own bathroom...at least occasionally








*bringing her own dirty clothes to laundry room...if they don't make it..they don't get washed.

She has definately started whining & putzing around a lot more w/her jobs in the last year or sooo...I definately think the age has something to do with it. She can take as long as she needs to w/these jobs & she understands these get done before chatting on ph w/friends, email, etc. The room & bathroom cleaning is usually only a few times a month...but once in a while she actually initiates the cleaning! wowow! Hamster cleaning sometimes needs a reminder, but she doesn't complain about that too much, as she purchased the lil thing w/her own money..including supplies....so she has a lot invested in it. She complains a lot more about anything she 'has' to do now...more so than when she was lil and enjoyed helping out....although she is very proud of her accomplishment when she shows off her newly cleaned/organized bedroom, or her happy non-smelly hamster









My 7yo also helps out...her new regular job includes helping her sister clear the table & rinse the dishes. She feeds the dogs in the evening & occasionally will 'walk' the lil dog in back of our house. She is really good at keeping her room clean & will bring her clothes to the laundry. She loves to help w/other jobs, like dusting & cleaning windows.

I think helping out around the house & taking care of the animals are life skills that are well worth learning & practicing


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## shantimama (Mar 11, 2002)

My children are 6, 8 and 9. We keep a chore chart on the fridge which has three "sets" of chores. Every week we alternate who does which set. One set is to sweep the stairs and kitchen floor every day for the week. Another is to set the table and help me prepare supper each day. The other is to feed the dog and unload the dishwasher. They are also responsible to get their dirty clothes into the hamper, put away clean laundry that has been folded by dh or me and help tidy up their things at the end of the day. Sometimes we get resistance, but somehow we get through it. Allowance is not tied to chores in the sense that they will get paid for helping out around the house, but if they refuse to do a chore or make too big a stink about it, they lose a quarter from their allowance.

Having chores is a genuine help to me - otehrwise I would be doing virtually everything around here. It also gives them valuable life skills and a healthy view of real life. I don't want them growing up incapable of caring for themselves or with the attitude that they "deserve" to have everything in life prepared or done for them. My son has been tall enough to use the stove to heat something up for a year now. My kids have all been mixing juice sinece they were 3 years old. I once met a teenaged babysitter who didn't know how to mix juice or open a tin of soup and heat it - I don't want to raise kids like that.

They don't always like doing the work, but I don't like all of my work every day either! I can still do it. The more I do something, the easier it gets and the chore becomes less demanding over time. The kids also take greater pride in the care of our home if they are part of maintaining it. My 6 y.o. helped me empty out and clean the fridge the other day and she has been checking on it and wiping spills since then. If one of them sweeps and mops the floor, they may not reach the corners, but they sure do notice whether people are tracking dirt in if they were the ones who made the floor shine!

I started young with my children because I know that young children are capable of helping - it is only in affluent places that people can reach adulthood without having learned any practical work/life skills - and I hope that having "always done it this way" will help when they reach the preteen/teen years and start to balk. I can't imagine inroducing it then.


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

My 18 month old has "chores".
For right now, they include "helping" mommy..especially picking up her toys, putting clothes down the laundry chute (fun and easy), and mimicing cleaning dishes and vacuuming. Waiting until later to introduce them is never the best way, in my expereince. Children can and should help....a family works together...the mother is not a slave.


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## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

Popping in really quick to suggest to Chandraj that priveledges be given for chore completion rather than taken away for not completing them. I think that reversal in attitude makes a big difference. So the standard is set that rather than your daughter having priveledges that you take away because she didn't do the chores, she doesn't have the priveledges to begin with but earns them through the chores. That way you aren't threatening to take them away but offering to give them.

Does that make sense?


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## Chicky2 (May 29, 2002)

ONe of my favorite sayings is "I'm a stay at home mom, not a stay at home maid."


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## LIZnCHAD (Jan 6, 2006)

I agree with the majority-she's definately not too young.
I had to

Keep my room clean (picked up every day, dusted vacuumed, declutter on saturdays)
Load and unload the dishwasher
Put away our clothes
Vacuum, dust, pick up my things in the basement
Clean the bathroom sweep, mop, clean off counters, empty trash, scrub shower and toilet.


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

My mom didn't have me or my sister do chores either, we were more strong willed than she and she gave up. I wish she hadn't given up so easily. I am lazy about house work, I know how to do it, but I don't want to do it.

My dh grew up on a farm, well he was doing half his chores in the dark before breakfast. There was never an option on doing his chores and he didn't complain about them either, his dad probably beat him if he didn't do his chores.

I have my children doing work around the house, even my 23 mo old will help unload the dishwasher. They all help pick up toys. The oldest 7 puts his clothes away after I wash them, sets the dinner table and is responsible for his room. As he gets older there will be more. Some chores are for his own benefit and some are for the family.

There are a lot of good things about chores -- responsibility to family, satisfaction is the little things, teaching a valuable lesson about life and the duties of life fun and not fun, etc.

It takes a strong will to get the jobs done sometimes with kids, but usually the complaining in our house only happens 1X. I really like SuperNanny and the positive reinforcements she employs on her show. I also like how she is showing parents how not to back down and give up, stick with it and the journey will get sweeter, give up and it gets much harder.


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## AntoninBeGonin (Jun 24, 2005)

I agree with some PPs that letting your daughter pick what chores she wants to do might help. She might surprise you. I always loved yard work. I grew up in a rural area so between our house and my grandma's there was a lot (probably 3 acres) of grass to mow and weedeat.

I was okay with setting the table and after dinner I'd scrape the dishes, take out the scraps, and set the dishes by the sink. My sisters would wash the dishes, do laundry, vacuum. Etc...

~Nay


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## bamamom (Dec 9, 2004)

geez no she's not too young. by the time i was that age, or even younger, i was responsible for getting food on the table at night b/c my dad was gone and mom was workng. and I babysat and did chores too. No way is she too young! She might complain just because she didn't have to do them sooner and now she does, lol.


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bamamom*
geez no she's not too young. by the time i was that age, or even younger, i was responsible for getting food on the table at night b/c my dad was gone and mom was workng. and I babysat and did chores too. No way is she too young! She might complain just because she didn't have to do them sooner and now she does, lol.

well,no I've always given her some kind of chore to do, it has only been recently that she complains about it...


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## BenJulieMattzMom (Mar 9, 2006)

I agree that 11 is WAY old enough to do chores. (My 2 yr old puts his toys away, helps me cook by stirring things, gets his toy vacuum while i vaccum, etc.) The problem in my house is getting her to do them. It is a battle. It takes a lot of energy on my part to be firm and try not to get sucked into aguing with her. I have a 12 yr old son who is so easy going - not only does he do the chores i ask, when finished he asks if there's anything else i need him to do! My daughter is the opposite - when she does something, it's usually done only half way, then she tries to disappear. Also, both of them have duties that involve watching/playing with our 2 yr old to distract him from me if I have things to do.

I know it's easier (and the job done better to my satifaction) if I do it myself. But I worry about long term consequences for her. This is the time to "practice" for real life. I won't always be there for her to do the laundry or help her out when things get hard. I do make it clear that she has a choice though! I am not a tirant. Dust the base boards or...she does not get your hour of TV today. It is her choice. Let her do the internal battle instead of me. It's still hard for me though - i hate looking in my linen closet now - the towels all folded different ways, wash clothes hidden, etc. I have to battle my own sense of obsessive organization stuff and try to "let it go". The jobs get done but not to my standards. But I can't expect preteens to do it perfectly. I do expect them to do it though.

The best way i have found to get my dd to do chores is to make clear the consequences of not doing them. For her, i found - grounded from anything using electricity works (unless it's a household appliance that cleans - i have to say that you know, she can be very literal). Instead of "time-outs", I now say, "you are unplugged for 2 days".

My biggest problem is we don't have a set schedule or when we do it doesn't seem to last long. We seem to get a lot of out-of-town guests and we all do extra chores before they get here. I explain to the kids that we are a "family" and share the work, etc.

~BenJulieMattzMom~


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## sunnymom95 (Mar 6, 2006)

I am so glad you posted this....I found the advice from the others helpful.
Like you, my DD (10 1/2) found doing chores fun at the ages of 2,3,4 & 5. Now that we are in preteen mode, helping out the fam is NOT fun, cool and I would rather pull teeth out of a monkey.


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## BenJulieMattzMom (Mar 9, 2006)

LOL - yea it is true - pulling a monkey's teeth would be easier...


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

I don't believe in MAKING a kid do ANY chores. The way I and my siblings were raised is that we weren't asked or required to do anything around the house unless we chose to (which we almost never chose to do). So we are raising our 2 sons the same way. If they decide on their own to do chores, they can. If they don't then that's OK too. Neither of them clean their rooms very often unless it just gets so bad even they can't stand it. Most of the time the rooms just never get cleaned, but that is OK, because it's THEIR space, not ours. Our oldest (12) sometimes (on rare occasions) will do a small chore, but our youngest (age 10) never does anything. And we don't ask or hassle them about it.


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shann*
I don't believe in MAKING a kid do ANY chores. The way I and my siblings were raised is that we weren't asked or required to do anything around the house unless we chose to (which we almost never chose to do). So we are raising our 2 sons the same way. If they decide on their own to do chores, they can. If they don't then that's OK too. Neither of them clean their rooms very often unless it just gets so bad even they can't stand it. Most of the time the rooms just never get cleaned, but that is OK, because it's THEIR space, not ours. Our oldest (12) sometimes (on rare occasions) will do a small chore, but our youngest (age 10) never does anything. And we don't ask or hassle them about it.

so in addition to being the mom, your a maid/housekeeper? I think everyone can and should chip in to some degree otherwise you get stuck cleaning up after everyone!


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

Sorry, but no, I don't see it that way. If you do, that's fine. I just don't see it as necessary. I let my kids make decisions for themselves on it. And if they choose not to do so, that's their business. I know I'll get flamed for this, but I also see nothing wrong with paying kids to help out (when they want to).


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Really? What will happen when they are grown-ups and just don't feel like doing chores? I don't see anything wrong with an allowance but I do think it is patently wrong to not teach kids the value of work done as a family to maintain the family's space. Honestly, I think it's an actual disservice to children to not give them a set list of expectations.


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## mamarhu (Sep 12, 2004)

Likely when they grow up, they will continue to make their own decisions about housework - doing what feels important to them. Isn't that what we all do anyway?

Looking at typical college dorm rooms, it seems that a traditional childhood with chores doesn't have much immediate impact on neatness as soon as kids are out from parental supervision. I guess that most of these kids eventually realize no one is going to clean up after them, and find their own level of comfort.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shann*
I don't believe in MAKING a kid do ANY chores.

I agree. I do ask the kids (and my husband too, and sometimes they ask me) to do some things around the house, but it is all done in the spirit of pitching in and getting the work done together as a family.


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## BenJulieMattzMom (Mar 9, 2006)

Wow no chores...well in our family this is the way i see it, I literally pay hundreds of dollars per year for them to play football, soccer, scouting, gas driving them around, arranging play dates (i don't know what the "cool" word for that is now that they're preteens), making sure the teachers are fair to them in school by staying on top of, participating in school events that usually bore me to tears, fund raisers (used to be fun but after a few years of it....well..), and well, birthday parties with friends, clothes they actually like to wear, actually i don't see a quick end to this list but you get the point. So I point out things such as these to the kids and explain that i love doing them but i need help 'cause things are expensive and the house gets crazy. We have to function as a family - all pitching in or there would be no way we could accomplish what we do now as a family (or what they do individually, not to mention the poor dogs, cats, fish that need taken care of, etc.). And they do not usually get paid, although i mean to set up an allowance soon so they can develop money managing skills on a more regular basis. Listen, I make a LOT of sacrifices for my kids - going above and beyond many other parents I know. I don't do it perfectly but this is the way it is.

However I will add, I kinda agree with some previous posts regarding that they will turn out "however" depending on their temperament no matter what my teachings are in the house cleaning department. My husband, for example, was brought up with very strict consequences for chores missed and was put to work all the time. He had to pick up his clothes and stuff or it was thrown out if found on floor, etc. So what's he like now? You DON'T want me to go there, lol. Let's just say, he is not mr. clean or mr. fix-it because he simply chooses not to I guess. I mean he is capable, was taught and all that but just doesn't want to. He's more of a binge cleaner and fixer upper I'd have to say. But, whatever, this is how it works here.

BenJulieMattzMom


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamarhu*
Likely when they grow up, they will continue to make their own decisions about housework - doing what feels important to them. Isn't that what we all do anyway?

Looking at typical college dorm rooms, it seems that a traditional childhood with chores doesn't have much immediate impact on neatness as soon as kids are out from parental supervision. I guess that most of these kids eventually realize no one is going to clean up after them, and find their own level of comfort.

Do you think? I don't know. I feel like if I don't teach my kids while they are young that you sometimes have to do things you don't want to do where will they learn it? I had a boyfriend in college whose mom never made him do anything growing up and not only did he not have a clue about basic cleaning he was a filthy slob. His sister was the same way.

IMO we're all part of the same family and we share the same house. Housework is not my job just because I am the woman/mother but rather it is the responsibilty of our family as a community.


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## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

ETA: Just read some more of the thread and saw that the OP has come up with a system that seems to be working. Good for you! I'll leave my post as written below for anyone interested. --Stephanie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *johub*
A HA!
I just remembered, at 11 my DD responded well to the choices game.
We would pick a time where we had to do chores. And she woudl come to me and I would give her two options, and she woudl choose between them and complete one of them
Then she would come back to me and I woudl give her two more choices.
"Clean your bathroom counter and sink, or wash the back door window"
"put your laundry in the hamper or wipe down the front door"
This doesnt work well anymore, as she has really matured in her resistance.
But a couple of years ago it worked like a charm.

My dd is only 5, but this is how we are starting. I have "housework time" scheduled at certain points in the week. (Otherwise *I* don't get around to it!







) In addition to regular responsibilities such as clearing her place after a meal, DD (along with 3 y.o. ds, if he's not napping or at preschool) is expected to help during housekeeping time for at least the first 15 minutes. I have a "master list of housekeeping jobs" which I set out for both of us. She chooses what she wants to do, and keeps coming back for more jobs until her time is up. (Usually, she gets into it and goes longer than the 15 minutes.) The idea is that she and her brother will help more and more as they get older. By ages 9 and 11, I would expect both of them to help me for the full hour.

When I announced this new system a few months ago, I got major resistance. She whined and cried and said cleaning was "stupid". But nothing else happened until she put in her 15 minutes -- no reading, no snacks, no tv. Eventually she did it and after a couple of days she stopped complaining. Now she occassionally groans, but usually she helps willingly. I think it was easier to start this at 5 than it would have been at 11. You are probably in for much more resistance than I got. But I think it can be done.

Finally, don't be afraid of harming your relationship with her. No healthy relationship should be threatened by one person standing up and asking for help with mutual responsibilities. She may be angry and annoyed at first, but that's OK! In fact, she will probably have greater respect for you when you show respect for yourself by refusing to be the family maid. In a way, it's also disrespectful to *her* not to expect her to help out. It could send the message that 1) you don't need her help, and 2) you don't think she's capable of being responsible.


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## minmoto2 (Dec 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Sheena*
IMO we're all part of the same family and we share the same house. Housework is not my job just because I am the woman/mother but rather it is the responsibilty of our family as a community.









I totally agree. I believe it is the responsibility of all members of our family to help each other by keeping up the common use areas. I think it also reflects respect for each other by helping to keep our house clean. (i use the word 'clean' loosely & slightly dustily







)


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## BenJulieMattzMom (Mar 9, 2006)

My problem is that my dd did help with things when she was little. It's just that there's a definite attitude change that's getting worse as she's in 5th grade. Next year she'll be in middle school and i have to assume the attitude won't mysteriously go away soon. She wants to pull away and isolate - go in her room, on the computer, phone. I give her some space but not all she wants. She is still part of our family unit IMO. I have read the reasons why preteens to do this - growing up and all but I, too, want my daughter to like me. It hurts to see her pull away. And on top of that, I have to set down rules, remind her of a chore, and she complains - or throws an all out fit. I am careful about my expectations like, after school she's tired, try a chore she can do watching tv or radio. But no matter how nice I am, or try to make things easier for her, she still has a fit. I try to give her of choice of jobs. Doesn't work anymore - she has told me wants neither and whines. I am now been informed she has an allergy to dust - she gets a headache when it's stirred up somehow (her words).

I am trying to think of what she'll be willing to work towards - giving her a priveledge instead of taking away. I know she's starting to be really interested in clothes. But promising a new shirt every week would get a bit pricey. I do not want to have to go back to making charts. I will say something, I wish I had the nerve to make her do something really physical like posted before to release some of that preteen negative energy.

BTW I have a 12 soon to be 13yr old boy who doesn't complain, does clean up on his own, asks how he can help me if I am doing something, etc. If I need help with anything - he'll stop what he's doing and help. Unbelievable the difference!


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shann*
I don't believe in MAKING a kid do ANY chores. The way I and my siblings were raised is that we weren't asked or required to do anything around the house unless we chose to (which we almost never chose to do). So we are raising our 2 sons the same way. If they decide on their own to do chores, they can. If they don't then that's OK too. Neither of them clean their rooms very often unless it just gets so bad even they can't stand it. Most of the time the rooms just never get cleaned, but that is OK, because it's THEIR space, not ours. Our oldest (12) sometimes (on rare occasions) will do a small chore, but our youngest (age 10) never does anything. And we don't ask or hassle them about it.

heres what I see wrong with this. In many cultures (not american) children HAVE to help out, they are MADE to, sometimes it is vital to the household. In this way they learn about life. In the early years the children are mimicking the parents by sweeping,pretending to cook or take care of a baby, hammering etc. They want to be just like us! Later,They learn to take care of things for/with the family earning respect from everyone in the house and then learning to give respect back gaining integrity and building character.
For example: We go to Jamaica every year or so. We stay in the mountains, a country, village farmers and the like. It is very poor,rural but a lovely community,beautiful,quiet and safe. we watch every morning (around 5-6am) the little children walking with buckets to get water from the stream to take it back so parents can make breakfast,wash up etc. sometimes you will see them carrying clothes to be washed by the stream all before they head off to school..after school they watch the little ones so mom can get dinner made or whatever..anyway I think this naturally how it should be.
I think this way of life (not having made your children help out) is very eletist in that its saying "my sweet child will not be made to _clean_ how lowly is that?!" perhaps most of these families have a housekeeper so mum doesn't have to do it either? then when they grow up they have the same attitude. In Jamaica it is known as 'stupid americans' they watch as the americans
don't clean up after themselves in the least (they stay in cabins where some work is done by the renters(dishes,sweeping etc). This phrase is common all around the world 'stupid americans' and it isn't just because of our politics







kwIm? Please don't do this to your children.
PS I am well aware of the consept of consentual living I just don't think it should apply to doing your share of the housework...


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

Oh by the way- thank you for all the great suggestions!! I am watching/reading all the posts! This is great!~C


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## Electra375 (Oct 2, 2002)

I grew up outside of the US and this idea that children don't have a responsibility to the household purpetuates into adulthood of not having a feeling of responsibility to the community in which they live, the earth, etc.

Chores are so vitally important to the nurturing of children and the lessons in life they need to be adults with focus beyond self.


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

Quote:

this idea that children don't have a responsibility to the household purpetuates into adulthood of not having a feeling of responsibility to the community in which they live, the earth, etc.
yeah, that!


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## Shenjall (Sep 14, 2002)

Quote:

this idea that children don't have a responsibility to the household purpetuates into adulthood of not having a feeling of responsibility to the community in which they live, the earth, etc.

Chores are so vitally important to the nurturing of children and the lessons in life they need to be adults with focus beyond self.
Another one agreeing.....

I really see this in my sister. Its frightening how much I see it....


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

I, for one, know that I don't do things exactly like my mom would do them, and I have no expectation that my children will do things just as I would once they are grown and out of the house. But while they are living here and contributing to the daily messes of life, they will be contributing to the dialy clean up of life, as well. If they do it on their own, great! All the better! But I will not be the maid just because they don't feel like doing anything.

Shann, I'm curious... how much do your kids end up helping out on their own? Are they naturally helpful or do you just do everythnig if they don't feel like helping?


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Electra375*
I grew up outside of the US and this idea that children don't have a responsibility to the household purpetuates into adulthood of not having a feeling of responsibility to the community in which they live, the earth, etc.

Chores are so vitally important to the nurturing of children and the lessons in life they need to be adults with focus beyond self.

I just don't believe you're teaching the right things by _forcing_ anyone to do anything. Just like I wouldn't teach math or reading by force. I believe teaching about housework, responsiblity to the household, etc. is best done by guiding and example. I think those of us that are saying we don't _make_ our children do chores, are not saying we don't teach our kids how to do housework, or help them learn to be a responsible part of a household and community. I think those are very important things that I do teach my children. I just believe that there are better ways to learn than being made to do something-- in fact I believe that takes away from the lesson you are trying to impart.

I am surprised that this is such a radical view on MDC-- that one can teach without forcing.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

I don't think it's such a radical view. It's just that I know my DSS would do NOTHING if I left it up to him. Maybe those who subscribe to the "don't force them" just have kids who are naturally more helpful than those who are saying we have to force them or we just end up doing it all? I would LOVE to live by the no force method, but I would end up doing it all myself, and that's just not an options I'm willing to entertain.

Interesting thread...


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## Carolinamidwife (Dec 18, 2001)

LMBO. If I didn't "force" my kids now and then they would both live in their pajamas, never leave the house, and eat snacks all day. I think non-coercive parenting is fine if it works for you but I don't believe it is a law of AP.


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:

Maybe those who subscribe to the "don't force them" just have kids who are naturally more helpful than those who are saying we have to force them or we just end up doing it all?
I don't know... I think once you start forcing someone to do something it can effect their internal motivation-- for many people being made to do something leads them to no longer choose to do it. So, there are times I let things go, and there are times I do things myself. But, for the most part, we all help each other out with the housework.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup*
I don't know... I think once you start forcing someone to do something it can effect their internal motivation-- for many people being made to do something leads them to no longer choose to do it.

I don't disagree with this, and maybe it would be more applicable to me if my circumstance were a bit different. As it is, my DSS is almost 14 and has been living with us for almost 2 yrs. His mother had/has NO expectations of him to do ANYTHING and so he just doesn't have any expectations of himself. Ironically, the only part of the house he does care about is his room - if it gets too messy, he will get frustrated and go on a cleaning spree. But when it comes to doing anything around the common areas of the house, he couldn't care less.

I'm constantly trying to figure out how to make it all less of a struggle, so I apprecaite the differing view points being discussed here.







Unfortunately, I feel like I am not in a situation with him where I can just let him naturally help out, as he just wasn't raised like that by his mom. Even now, when he goes to her house for the weekend, he comes back with more sourness about doing even simple things for himself because she just does it all for him. So when he returns to our house, we are just awful, mean parents who make him do unreasonable things like put his glass in the dishwasher or pick up his dirty socks. It's frustrating.


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sunnysideup*
I don't know... I think once you start forcing someone to do something it can effect their internal motivation-- for many people being made to do something leads them to no longer choose to do it. So, there are times I let things go, and there are times I do things myself. But, for the most part, we all help each other out with the housework.

I am curious- Shann and sunnyside up-Do yours (or anyone else who believes in non coersive parenting's kids) naturally help out, without you asking them to??


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chandraj*
I am curious- Shann and sunnyside up-Do yours (or anyone else who believes in non coersive parenting's kids) naturally help out, without you asking them to??

Sometimes they do things without my asking, sometimes I ask.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

sunnysideup - So when you ask, how do they respond? Do they happily agree most of the time? Do they ever say no? How do you respond if they say no?


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## sunnysideup (Jan 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamameg*
sunnysideup - So when you ask, how do they respond? Do they happily agree most of the time? Do they ever say no? How do you respond if they say no?

Usually my requests are very reasonable and the kids are pretty agreeable. Of course, there are times that they say no, and my response depends on the situation. I try to be respectful. They usually have a reason for saying no-- often it's just that they're busy with something else, and we can work out another time to do the task, or someone else will offer to do it. Or maybe the task is just too overwhelming or difficult and they need help (this happened with shoveling after the snow storm we had yesterday morning, it was just too much work for one person). I love the book How To Talk So Kids Will Listen... The authors have great suggestions for "creating a climate of respect in which the spirit of cooperation can grow." Their advice for engaging cooperation (works with husbands as well as kids







):
1. Describe the problem
2. Give information
3. Say it with a word
4. Talk about your feelings
5. Write a note

I expect everyone in the family to want to cooperate and be respectful. If they are not, I assume there is a reason and we try to resolve it. I see it as my job (and my husband's) to help the kids learn how to be a part of a cooperative household. If they don't know how to pick up after themselves, clean a bathroom, or do laundry (just some examples), I assume they need better help learning--not punishments. We also keep in mind that we all have times we just don't feel like cleaning, dh and I have our days like this so why not the kids too? we can let things go occasionally.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

My daughter has never had any chores. On the other hand, she has always had a pretty clear understanding of my limitations, and I think she feels that she is a valued and necessary part of the family unit... so she does things that keep our family running smoothly. She's been doing all of her own laundry for years now (she's 13) and does a fair amount of cooking and household clean up. Sometimes I ask, and sometimes she just does it. She can always say no but rarely does, and I respect it when she does say it. Sometimes I don't feel like cleaning up the kitchen, either, so it just stays dirty for a day - no harm, no foul.

She actually did less when she was 11-12ish than at any point before or after, so I think that might just be a rough time for kids in general... she had a lot of emotional issues and changes and all that puberty stuff going on, plus she was heavily involved in theatre, doing about a dozen shows in rapid succession, so she did less around the house.

I'm a single mom (no support from her dad or anyone else, really) and she's unschooled, so we're somewhat unique in that way. I cannot do everything, and that's been pretty obvious to Rain since she was tiny.

dar


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## BenJulieMattzMom (Mar 9, 2006)

Thanks for that post, Dar. I do think my dd needs to adjust to the changes happening in her body. There are changes in her social life at school also - the time of cliques and bickering has begun. I just don't want her taking out frustrations on the rest of our family. And we have talked about this. Maybe I need to have another talk about hormones, bursts of anger and the like.

BenzJuliezMattzMom
Mom of 12 almost 13 yr old boy/2 yr old boy/11 yr old DD


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## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dar*
My daughter has never had any chores. On the other hand, she has always had a pretty clear understanding of my limitations, and I think she feels that she is a valued and necessary part of the family unit... so she does things that keep our family running smoothly. She's been doing all of her own laundry for years now (she's 13) and does a fair amount of cooking and household clean up. Sometimes I ask, and sometimes she just does it. She can always say no but rarely does, and I respect it when she does say it. Sometimes I don't feel like cleaning up the kitchen, either, so it just stays dirty for a day - no harm, no foul.

She actually did less when she was 11-12ish than at any point before or after, so I think that might just be a rough time for kids in general... she had a lot of emotional issues and changes and all that puberty stuff going on, plus she was heavily involved in theatre, doing about a dozen shows in rapid succession, so she did less around the house.

I'm a single mom (no support from her dad or anyone else, really) and she's unschooled, so we're somewhat unique in that way. I cannot do everything, and that's been pretty obvious to Rain since she was tiny.

dar

This sounds like the ideal situation Dar. Not all kids are willing to pitch in like that for whatever reason (personality, family structure, relationship issues, whatever.) I think it has a lot to do with living up to expectations. Sounds like you have always expected your dd to help out, and your need was obvious to her, even if you didn't say that to her explicitly or force her to meet your expectaions. A kid in a family where mom and/or dad seem (to the child, anyway) to have everything under control might not see the expectation to help as reasonable. This is why I'm making my need known to my kids early!









It will be interesting to see how my own children mature in this way. As I said already, I require my 5 year old to help me and to do certain personal duties for herself, but I try to give her as much freedom within that framework as I can. I can see already that my 3 year old is just naturally more of a neat freak. He actually suggests to *me* that we pick up something before moving on to something else -- a practice I've never been good at, so he didn't learn it here!









I think you may be right about the age too. 11 was my #1 worst year of life. I remember sobbing to my parents how much I hated being 11.


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## Shann (Dec 19, 2003)

Chandraj...one of the boys helps out when he feels like it (which, granted, is very rarely), the other one has never done so (not even once). Either way, it's fine with us. We don't believe in forcing, and in our house it works out just fine. Neither of them ever does anything toward cleaning their rooms (they have separate rooms) unless the rooms become too unihabitable even for them (which is extremely rarely). And that is especially ok with us, because it is THEIR space and we believe that they should feel as comfortable as they want within their little area. To be honest, I haven't seen the floor in either room in I don't know how long! LOL ! But I don't worry about it at all, because my room was the same way when I was a preteen/teen, so it's not anything strange for me.


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