# ANYONE else hate parenting?



## RaeAnne (Mar 7, 2007)

Does anyone else wonder if they should have had their baby in the first place? People say it gets better, but it's not really happening yet. Then there are the people with older children who say babies are so great, and so much easier, "Just wait until their running around and saying 'No, then you'll appreciate this time.'" WTF??? Seriously, what if it doesn't get better? Every age has something crappy about it. What if I never like this?

I'm sick of her crying. I'm sick of walking her to sleep. Every single f'ing person I've talked to tells me I'm a big fat idiot for thinking I shouldn't let her cry to sleep. Honestly, I do think it just tells dd not to trust me, especially when she's looking me in the eyes crying, wanting to be picked up (she will only be put down for max 10 minutes most of the time, and naps in my lap because otherwise she will wake up; we also co-sleep, which actually doesn't bother me other than having to be so FREAKING careful to get her to sleep and stay asleep while I try and lay down so *I* can sleep, GOD FORBID). But I'm so SICK of this. All this feminist self esteem crap just does NOT seem to apply if you're trying to do AP parenting. My feelings do NOT matter. You know how I feel? I want her to shut the h*ll up. I want to put her down and just do normal things for awhile. I want a break when I'm stressed (and don't think dh doesn't help, he does MORE than his share, because when he's home, I NEVER want to deal with her). And her crying LESS because I hold her all the time? You've got to be kidding me! I doubt it! I know this is stupid, but I just think, you know, if you had just about any other f'ing parent, you would have been dumped in a crib to sleep alone, cry alone, a LONG time ago, so the LEAST you can do it stop crying!! I seriously have to keep myself from just smacking her, if for no other reason than that she will just cry more if I do (and I'll have to live with what I did for the rest of my life...).

And you know what takes the cake? I'm not doing ANYTHING that someone else couldn't do, and they would probably do it better (i.e. more patience). Tons of kids are in daycare, and you know what? They do just fine!! Anyone can feed her, change her diapers, dress her. This is a completely thankless job, and the idea of having another baby is... I don't know, I just can't even imagine having to go through this h*ll again. And yet all of you people keep wanting kids!!

Is there seriously something wrong with me?? I don't want a bunch of sh*t about ppd either, either this is normal or it isn't.

Sorry if there are typos, I haven't gotten enough sleep for the past 1 1/2 weeks because once again, my needs don't matter if dd is crying or wanting something.

RaeAnne
dd (1/08)


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## RaeAnne (Mar 7, 2007)

Oh yeah, and she likes the f'ing PACIFIER better than the boob for falling asleep. We used it for her high sucking needs when she had colic (to prevent an overly full stomach which makes colic worse). So literally the only thing that was special just between us is not as appreciated as a f'ing piece of silicone. I hated pregnancy, but was really looking forward to having a boob baby. Oh well, it's not about my feelings, right?

RaeAnne
dd (1/08)


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

So, is your DD only 1 1/2 weeks old then? If so, and she is your first, these feelings are so normal!







I just had my 5th a month ago and - while I can only speak for myself - I can tell you the first is the hardest. That was my experience anyhow. When my oldest was born I remember walking with him all night, SOBBING (me), and saying "WHY did I have a baby? WHY?????? Never again, NEVER!!" It is a HUGE adjustment! HUGE! I don't know what your prior experience with babies is but I'd never even HELD a babe until they handed DS to me! I was shell shocked, it wasn't what I expected at all. And I know this isn't what you want to hear but I promise, the only thing that will help is time. And go easy on yourself. You don't sound like you have PPD, you sound like a stressed out first time mama.







After a few weeks things were so much better for me, I couldn't even understand what I was so upset about. And those feelings never repeated with subsequent children. It's a major adjustment to go from your old life, doing what you want when you want...to 100% of everything you have going to someone you just met, even if that person is your child.







Cut yourself some slack, accept how you feel, toss the gulit - it's NORMAL, and just give both yourself and your DD time to get to know one another. Try to get a little time to yourself each day. Maybe have someone sit with the babe while you get a long shower or a bath. You're still a person with needs and if you don't take care of you you can't take care of her. Don't get burnt out. You're clearly doing the best you can, and what you know is right, despite all these feelings...you're a terrific mama already. You're setting the stage now for bonding to be well facilitated once you get past the hump, and you will...promise.








Good luck!


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## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

OK, I see your DD was born in January? So she's pushing 4 months?
Have you been feeling this way the whole time? She she going through a cranky spell? Is her dad in the picture? You sound like you need some help. (Baby care wise.)


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## Night_Nurse (Nov 23, 2007)

RaeAnne,
I'm so sorry. I understand your frustration, I really do.
It sounds like you're feeling a little overwhelmed and frustrated. I think that happens to quite a few new moms but too many people are afraid to admit it.
You may not have ppd, but it is normal for most new moms to have hormones out of whack for a while. Plus, lack of sleep will stress anyone out.
It's great that your dh is helping when he's home. But if you're feeling overwhelmingly frustrated all the time you're with the baby, why not see if a neighbor or family member can come help for an hour or two? Then you could still be with baby but someone else could hold her while you shower, nap, walk around the block?
I'm not of the school of thought that says mama MUST be with her baby 100% of the time, especially if mama is getting stressed out over all of it. It's okay to take a break from baby, especially if you're feeling more calm and in control when you return.
If having someone come over and help isn't an option, maybe you can put baby in a sling or stroller and go for a walk or something. You'll be tending to her needs but also getting some fresh air, listening to music, or whatever you like to do to tend to your own needs too.

It WILL get better, I promise, but if you ever feel like you're about to really lose it and hurt the baby, put the baby down, do to another room and call someone asap. Sometimes just stepping into another room to take a few deep breathes can do wonders to help you gather your thoughts and feel more in control.

I hope it gets better for you soon. Your baby loves you. I promise she's not trying to stress you out. She's just communicating the only way she knows how. Don't be afraid to ask for help when you need it. You're not a failure as a mom for asking for help or taking a break for a bit.


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## OhDang (Jan 30, 2008)

I think you just haven't bonded with your baby yet and this is completely normal. I know SEVERAL mothers who don't have that bond with their baby, and don't like being a mom. It will get better. I know you said you don't want to hear about PPD but honestly i think that is part of the problem.
You need to take a break for a little while.


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## SheepNumber97245 (Apr 20, 2007)

i'm just kind of in shock at this.
"if you had just about any other f'ing parent, you would have been dumped in a crib to sleep alone, cry alone, a LONG time ago, so the LEAST you can do it stop crying!!"
-i beg to differ...

But anyway, Next time she's really having a crying fit, lay her down in a safe place and walk outside or somewhere to where you can not hear her and just take some deep breaths. YOU REAALLY need to do that. I get frustrated too, everyone does. But you need to start trying to look at the bigger picture. Take yourself out of the situation mentally and think about it like this: 1. She is an infant. She cannot talk. She has only ONE way of communicating: crying. 2. She has one certainty in life: MOM. In her little eyes, you are god and you have the power to fix everything. She loves you. Yes anyone can change her, anyone can hold her, but she does not want anyone. She wants her mother. 3. There is no "take 2" I'm sure you've heard this a million times, but you don't get these days back. I'm sure you're like "yeah thank god!" but really stop and think. This is a very crucial time of development. It is the start of your relationship with her so why not make the best of it. Take her for a walk and hold her the whole time. Whenever my son gets cranky I take him for a walk. There's so much to look at he can't cry, he's too focussed on watching cars drive by and people talking to him...dogs barking, whatever.

I wish you luck. Please take my advice and take some breaths! *hug*


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## Collinsky (Jul 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
Is there seriously something wrong with me?? I don't want a bunch of sh*t about ppd either, either this is normal or it isn't.
dd (1/08)

Can I ask why you don't want anyone to talk about PPD? What are you thinking about it?

I spent so long after my second daughter was born wondering what the heck was wrong with me, feeling like I just wasn't cut out to be a mother, that I was stupid to think "Oh, let's have another baby!" and I was being punished for thinking that was such a great idea. When obviously it was stupid, and I didn't have what it took to be mama to two. She was 6 months old before I finally FINALLY considered the possibility that I wasn't actually a suck-a** mother, but that I had something like PPD. I regret that I avoided the idea for as long as I did... things could have been so much better, sooner.

What does someone suggesting PPD *say* to you? Because everything you're talking about is totally normal, with PPD. If your entire post is a list of PPD symptoms, and you're MISERABLE and frustrated and discouraged and overwhelmed... considering the possibility of PPD can be the beginning of changing what's going on. What you're currently doing and thinking isn't fixing things. You have to change something... and maybe that change is saying, "Wait just a second. _Could_ this be PPD?" It can't hurt to look into it.


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## thismama (Mar 3, 2004)

I actually think it's outside the realm of normal. I know you dont' want to talk about PPD, but I think something is going on.


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## Jennyfur (Jan 30, 2007)

I sympathize with your pain and frustration. I am not a "baby person," and after I gave birth to my twins, the first few months were sheer hell to me. I dragged my ass through it, and my husband did more than 50% of the parenting in addition to getting up with them at nights. I couldn't stand the thought of being in charge for the rest of my life.

They got older, we agreed to have another, and we had a baby girl when my twins were nearly 4. This time, after a month or so of wanting to give her away, I sought treatment.

Call it PPD, call it whatever you like, I don't care. I began meds to treat depression, and it changed my life. It took away the clouds and helped me dig out of the hole I was in. I was able to enjoy my child's first year(s) in a way I *never* was able to with my twins.

My twins are nearly 14 and my baby girl is nearly 10, and I still take regular meds b/c when I've stopped taking them, I spiral into depression. That wasn't the case before I had kids, but then again, I think I was likely to suffer from it as I got older b/c of family history.

I can't recommend strongly enough that you talk to your ped about your feelings. Print out your post and show her/him. I wish I'd talked to someone when my twins were little. I still have regret over how I was emotionally unavailable for them for so long.


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## trancechylde (Apr 14, 2008)

I would have to agree *gently* that these feelings are not normal...

Sure, we all get a little frustrated sometimes, but having feelings like "sometimes I have to hold myself back from just smacking her", yowch.

I agree with all the other posters saying when you feel like that, please put her down and leave the room for a few seconds until you calm down a bit.

Being a new mom is *hard*, having this little person rely on you for everything, every waking moment is draining and exhausting, but should also be full of special moments for both of you.

It would be terrible to look back at this time of your life one day and regret feeling resentful and angry towards your daughter. ( I wonder if she is also maybe picking up on this sometimes and that's making her feel even MORE unsettled?)

I would really suggest talking to your OB or midwife about your feelings and also getting some help maybe from a family member so you can have some time for yourself to unwind and just get away from the crying for a few hours a week?

I'm sorry you're feeling this way right now, it must really suck. Sending healing vibes your way for some bonding between you and your little one.


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## wednesday (Apr 26, 2004)

I found my son's infancy very very difficult, the incessant crying was really hard to take. I didn't think then, and don't think now, that I had PPD (although I do think tht's worth checking out). He really just cried a LOT. I think he had both reflux and a dairy allergy. We couldn't get ANY help with the reflux, which he still suffers from off and on (at 4!) but cutting dairy out of my own diet made a HUGE difference. It took a full week of STRICT no-dairy to see the change, but one morning we woke up and he was a different baby. Smiling, laughing, and babbling rather than screaming and crying all day. The difference was phenomenal.


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## a(TM)?Star (Oct 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Collinsky* 
Can I ask why you don't want anyone to talk about PPD? What are you thinking about it?

I spent so long after my second daughter was born wondering what the heck was wrong with me, feeling like I just wasn't cut out to be a mother, that I was stupid to think "Oh, let's have another baby!" and I was being punished for thinking that was such a great idea. When obviously it was stupid, and I didn't have what it took to be mama to two. She was 6 months old before I finally FINALLY considered the possibility that I wasn't actually a suck-a** mother, but that I had something like PPD. I regret that I avoided the idea for as long as I did... things could have been so much better, sooner.

What does someone suggesting PPD *say* to you? Because everything you're talking about is totally normal, with PPD. If your entire post is a list of PPD symptoms, and you're MISERABLE and frustrated and discouraged and overwhelmed... considering the possibility of PPD can be the beginning of changing what's going on. What you're currently doing and thinking isn't fixing things. You have to change something... and maybe that change is saying, "Wait just a second. _Could_ this be PPD?" It can't hurt to look into it.

This.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I actually think it's outside the realm of normal. I know you dont' want to talk about PPD, but I think something is going on.

This too.

Get some help mama, it's normal to feel desperate for sleep, and downright frustrated sometimes, but something is not sounding right here, do you have someome to talk to? I will mention PPD because it's sounding a lot like that. Please take a minute to think about it......it comes in all shapes and forms.


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## sarah0404 (May 28, 2006)

Hi RaeAnne, I'm sorry you are feeling like this. I know you said you weren't interested in hearing about postnatal depression, but I'm sending you a link to The Edinburgh Postnatal Depression Scale. Its a quick questionaire that only takes a few minutes to complete. A score above 10 suggests that you might be suffering from depression.

http://www.testandcalc.com/etc/tests/edin.asp


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## chickenfeet (Apr 14, 2008)

I'm not very informed on PPD, so I can't say yea or nay, but I don't know if there is a 'normal' those first crazy months. I think everyone handles the huge changes & stresses differently.

I had a hard time adjusting. I had lived almost 30 years completely for myself, had never even held a baby, had been getting 9 hours of sleep, had never had someone constantly needing me, etc. I also come from a long line of quick tempered women, and have always had a hard time keeping my emotions in check. No sleep, fluctuating hormones & lots of baby cries = many midnight meltdowns for me.

When you're frustrated, remember you're the only person in the world your LO wants (along with dh). Sure someone else could feed or change her, but only you are her mama. You are her whole world. And it would be much easier to let her CIO, but you are being a good mama right now because you're trying to do what's best for her, not what's easy for you.

There's so much shame & guilt attached to these emotions, I understand. But I don't think it makes you a bad mother. It makes you human.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Oh, I'm so sorry you're in this dark place right now.
There is a huge range of normal for babies, and your little girl is what's affectionately known as "high-needs"- also known as "oh my god, what did I let myself in for?" She sounds wonderful, and she also sounds like she's very hard work to be around. Am I right? There's a huge range of normal for mummies too, and what you're going through is extremely common. If you don't want to use the label PPD, then don't. You've been through a year riding the hormonal rollercoaster, and I personally hate this age (my youngest is 3 months old) most of all. I hate the dependence, the desire for interaction, entertainment, more, more, more. I love the baby though- and with him being my fourth, I know that this is just an age I don't like very much. It is tough- it's really, really tough.

You are absolutely spot-on, that society sends out mixed messages: half the world is telling you to wrap your baby in a blanket and put her in a cot to sleep, and if she cries, so be it. The other half is telling you to hold your baby close, rock her to sleep, cuddle her all night long and even though you burnt out long ago and you feel like total crap, her needs are more important. There's a huge contrast there, and no matter what you do, it's never going to be enough for someone. Throw the books away. Find your own way.


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## apurrfectplace (Nov 17, 2007)

Even if you don't want to hear it.

I am a new, first time mom of twins who are 6 weeks old tomorrow. It gets really intense (like right now, they are both screaming in pain from gas and I can't fix it for them other than gripe water and you know, it makes me so sad...). I also, have not slept in days...

But the feelings are never intense like what you are feeling. Why am I saying this? Because sweetie, there is a difference between PPD and just needing to take a break from the crying... you sound very angry and resentful. Crying is the only way your daughter can communicate. Nothing you are doing is wrong or bad. You are doing great things for her. And the pacci? Babies have a strong urge to suck to comfort. Either the boob or the silicone or a thumb or finger (we swaddle so they can't reach them)... so, please don't feel upset about that.

I look at my parenting the boys as a job. The hardest, best job I will ever do.
If you don't have PPD can you look at it that way, vs. that this sucks!

Parenting is a richly diverse job! You get to give comfort and love to another human being in the most uniquely wonderful way that is God-given. It is a blessing. You get to decipher their cries to figure out what is happening to them, since they can't speak. If you can't decipher, you need to just walk away. I am on the PC because, my boys are telling me, the breastmilk they just ate made them feel awful from something that was eaten and was out of my control. I can't do anything about it (except want to cry... waaah) so took a mental health break. They will get over the crying when their stomach settle and I won't be in anguish seeing them suffer.

Another mom of twins (and a younger singleton) told me this once (she was very wise). "I can choose to wake up with a bad attitude and make that what my day is all about. Or, I can choose to look at the wonderful things that these kids bring to my life. And be happy that I am blessed with them. I will never be alone again. I will always be loved and adored. Even when I make mistakes.". Wow, that resonated. She told me that before my sons were born. Every day, I wake up knowing that, my attitude sets the tone for these little guys and I choose to make it a day worthy of as much happiness as I can bring to them, and to myself.

Sending you many, many hugs and hoping today is a brighter day.


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## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

Sending lots of hugs to you mama









IMO, it sounds like maybe your baby is uncomfortable - dairy or other food sensitivities, or PPD or maybe even a combination of the two. Either way, you need a break!

I think these feelings are somewhat normal in the first few weeks but it seems like your feelings are quite a bit stronger. Feelings of anger and feeling like the baby does not need you ARE major signs of PPD mama. That doesn't make you a bad mom, it just blurs your judgement a bit.


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## henny penny (Mar 26, 2008)

I agree with previous posts that these feelings can bring on shame and guilt but they do not make you a bad mother. You sound like a mama who is overwhelmed. High need babies can be very draining. I remember with ds feeling like I have never worked so hard at something only to have my efforts 100% rejected. I was completely taken off guard by the total surrender required in the first months, physical, mental, and emotional. Try to find your mama insticts, which can be hard when you are so tired. And your feelings DO matter. Your baby needs a healthy mama more than anything else. It does get better. Your little sweetie will soon become more interactive and light up when you enter the room and you'll find a whole new part of yourself.







In the meantime please consider ppd (or whatever you want to call it). I think you are brave for writing your honest post and it does sound like you need some kind of support that you aren't getting now. This is a normal for new mamas! Hugs, mama!


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## russianthistle (Jul 19, 2005)

I agree with pp's...these feelings are NOT normal. I cannot imagine what kind of hell you feel trapped within. I cannot relate at all. It sounds like it would be a very wise and healthy decision to get some kind of help...

I know that this might sound simple and, perhaps, even silly to you. I suggest that you, at the very least, outwardly communicate both to yourself and to your baby that you love. Even if you really don't love, saying that you love aloud could really help.

Despite all of the feelings you have, you are a beautiful person who is very capable of loving.








mama


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## SarahGuinn (Mar 6, 2002)

I will disagree with everyone else who said that this isn't normal. It was normal for me and I did not have ppd. I was just an isolated first time mother who had a baby that cried 22 hours a day. Things got better when I dove into trying to figure out why.

It is normal sometimes, it could be ppd or it could not be.

I was angry and resentful. I didn't like being the parent of a baby that couldn't communicate with me in any other way than the way a baby can. I was still a good mother and did everything I was supposed to but man, the baby stage was overrated for me.

Quote:

I just can't even imagine having to go through this h*ll again. And yet all of you people keep wanting kids!!
I used to joke that anyone with more than one had to have been tricked.







I have two now.









It will get better. If it doesn't ease up with you guys settling into a routine, then think about getting some outside assistance. My best advice for you is to leave the damned house. Just because your child is an infant doesn't mean you can't go to a playground and sit for a long time. Other mother's there of older children would salivate at a chance to hold your baby for you and give you a break.


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## MaryJaneLouise (Jul 26, 2005)

My babes were newborns when the Abu Ghraib (Iraqi POW) scandal first came out. And I remember thinking, where's the Geneva Convention for moms?







Seriously, newborns can be like freaking torture.

Sleep deprivation? Duh.

Regular meals? are you kidding.

Access to medical care? Only after a long and painful drive to the drs.

No physical or mental torture? Well, non stop crying babies can be considered torture.

So, in my experience, what you are going through is Totally Normal.

But, please get as much help as you can. Good, nonjudgmental friends & family are essential during this time. And it really, really does get better







.


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## imalego (May 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I actually think it's outside the realm of normal. I know you dont' want to talk about PPD, but I think something is going on.

I agree. Please, for your babies sake, and your sake, get some help.









and maybe this is not what you want to hear at all but.... whenever I am at my wits end, DS crying and carrying on, I tell myself that I am lucky to be able to hear my son cry. I have a couple people in my life that have lost babies-stillborn and/or miscarriage-and honestly when I'm feeling the most impatient and negative, I think that even though it feels like he's never going to calm down and I'm about to freak out, I get so see my son cry and I get to hold him and I'll get to hold him the next day too. It really puts me in a different state of mind, savoring those tears, rather than fighting them.


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## littlecindy (Feb 14, 2008)

on my worst days in the last 9 months, i've felt like you feel. i don't know if it's normal or not. it might just be more honest than other people allow themselves to feel.

i will tell you that every time i've ever felt like this, it's when i've gotten *worse* sleep than even an average night. sleep deprivation is crazy. it brings my tolerance for stress to zero. i won't say you don't have PPD, but for myself, i've concluded it's sleep deprivation. (which could probably turn into or aggravate depression after awhile).

i wish i would've actually taken my own advice, but my suggestion is to do whatever you need to do to get a full night's sleep without baby around every once in awhile. call in family, get your hubby some support if needed. anything so you don't have to be the one doing it for just one night and maybe you'll get more than a couple hours of sleep in a row. i still haven't done this...but i plan on it.

there *is* some light at the end of the tunnel. 3 months was hard. our son was fussy, worst at night. has always slept like absolute crap, regardless of where he sleeps, if he's cosleeping or not. by 4 months he got less fussy though. and then at like 5 months he could sit up on his own and he got happier. then crawling, he got happier.

basically, all the fussiness is gone, but the sleep is still not going well. but i am a lot less stressed than i was a few months ago.


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## lisari (Sep 19, 2007)

Good for you for having the guts to be that honest. I love these boards, but sometimes people are so busy judging they forget that there's a flesh and blood, sometimes desperate woman at the other end. I had all the books, and all the plans, and then my baby showed up and she wasn't having any of it. She cried as much, if not more, when being held as when not being held, and cried even more with Mommy than anyone else (I was told, and it made sense, that the baby could sense my tension). So sometimes, I put her down and I let her cry. It's not something I thought I would do, and it was not part of the plan, but I honestly believe it has worked out better for all of us. I don't think there's anything wrong with you, but I do think you should talk to someone, find a doctor that you like, until things get better, which, I swear to god, they will.


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## savvybabygrace (Feb 15, 2007)

I have to also agree that this sounds like PPD, even if it's not something you want to hear. I went through it twice myself, and a lot of what you said could have directly come out of my mouth while I was going through PPD.

Even if it's not PPD I can absolutely empathize with you and I ache for you. I've been in that dark place and it's terrible. Let us know how we can help, if there is anything. And I would certainly suggest asking for help from others (it sounds like your sweet dh is doing great). Maybe a family member? Neighbor? Friend?

You'll get through this rough place.


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## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

Mama, I just read one of your other posts and see that you had a traumatic birth experience and your baby almost ended up with major surgery














We had a CVICU stay with DS2 and he had heart surgery for a heart defect. I dealt with a lot of post-traumatic stress for the first few months after he came home. It is very possible that you are dealing with it too.

I think the most important question you need to ask yourself is if you feel like this everyday or just on the really bad days. If it is only once in a while then that is ok, but if it is more often then not then something has to change. You cannot continue feeling like this every single day, it is not good for you or your family. So if these feelings are common then please find some way to make changes that will make you feel better.


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## the elyse (Apr 15, 2006)

i'd say this is pretty normal... it was for me at least. dd was a premie and i didn't hold her for 24 hours after she was born. we didn't bond for a really long time. she would cry and i would do my best to comfort her, but when it seemed like she was doing it just to push my buttons, i would put her down for a while. she's almost four now, and we still butt heads alot, she gets on my nerves, but i love her. dh is closer to her than i am, but i've come to accept that there's nothing wrong with that. i just had my ds, and we bonded INSTANTLY. i had the perfect homebirth i always wanted with him, i was excited about being pregnant, i was more ready to be a mama, etc. etc. it made a world of difference.

the first six months with dd was a b*tch. hang in there mama.


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## minsca (Jun 25, 2007)

First of all I want to give you a







And let you know that you are not alone a few weeks ago I was there along side you. Just really angry especially at my children. Then one day I just started crying and I couldn't stop. Finally my DH said "Pam, you have PPD we are going to the dr, getting you some help right now". He dragged me kicking and screaming and I was diagnosed with PPD. I must admit I'm still very ashamed to admit that I do have ppd, but I'm no longer angry and frustrated.
So I'm sorry to mention this to you, but I really think that it is time for you to look at the possibility that it is ppd.


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

If you're feeling like you're in hell and wanting to hit your baby every day or most days or many times during the day, no it isn't normal. If it's a fleeting thought that you might get during a particularly long crying spell, it might be normal. Extreme stress and major changes like becoming a parent, especially to a colicky baby, can precipitate depression.

Having a miserable mom doesn't benefit a child. Your feelings do matter, for your sake and your baby's. Improving your mental health will benefit your baby and make it easier for you to be the kind of parent you want to be.


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## AlpineMama (Aug 16, 2007)

Without reading replies... I hated the newborn phase with my son. I adore him but not his personality. I still don't get a lot of enjoyment out of him. Not even his patient grandmothers, or DH. He is one tough, needy babe.

My DD is completely the opposite of him. She is sweet and mellow and I enjoy her every minute of every day.

Some baby-mama dyads just "fit" better. Some babes are just hard on anyone. Daycare providers or not. It's the luck of the draw, really. I got a lot of my self-esteem back when DD was born. It wasn't just me who was miserable and incapable of dealing with babies. It was him. It made me bond with him a bit more, ironically. I feel sorry that life is so hard for the little critter. You're a great mama already. Don't be so hard on yourself. Make time for yourself and repeat after me: "It's my job to provide him with food, shelter, protection, and guidance, and the opportunity for him to be happy. It is NOT my job to MAKE him happy. That's his job."


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## Bad Horse (Mar 17, 2008)

Oh mama. That hurts to read about, because after my 2nd child I could have written much of what you wrote.

I know you said you don't want to talk about it, and normally I would respect that, but I can't just not say anything here. I _did_ have severe horrible PPD. I mean, it was really bad. The only things I remember about his first year is crying, feeling trapped and helpless, panicking, desperate.

I don't have those good memories of his babyhood like I do with my oldest. I don't remember any of it. I only remember anger, and panic, feeling like I was drowning.
I had a hell of a time bonding with him, I was so angry even immediately after his birth, that I wasn't interested in holding him much, I just wanted to shower and deal with being pissed about how much he hurt me in giving birth.

Mama, you are SO awesome for posting here. Really.
PLEASE put your baby down when you need to and walk away. Go outside. Take deep breaths. She'll live. She'll be there when you get back. YOU need to take care of you first and foremost before you can take care of her.

Please consider going to see someone, it's an amazing realization that you DON'T have to feel this way, at least it was for me when I found a good pdoc and got treatment.

I'm thinking of you.


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## Writerbird (Jun 1, 2007)

Put me down as voting for "normal - mostly" and "throw away the books."

I say normal because I felt EXACTLY like that for several weeks. I was not the slightest bit depressed or hormonal. The first few weeks, especially if you're breastfeeding, are horrific for some of us. This little stranger, who is not the slightest bit interested in you, let alone your needs, demands all of your time and attention. There are no patterns, the cries don't sound that different, and what works on Tuesday fails on Wednesday. Personally, I couldn't shake the thought that except for the breastfeeding, absolutely everything else was the worst kind of menial labor I could hire out at minimum wage, and the breastfeeding wasn't at all fun. I had/have a career with a lot of respect and power, and the newborn experience turned my world upside down and pooped on it.

Hell, for that matter, I turned into the sort of person who said poop instead of the usual word for that substance!

I cried over being the sort of heartless monster who wasn't madly in love with a very much wanted baby. I cried to my friends about being a horrible mother. I both felt like my baby deserved better, and at the same time thought that my baby would have it so much worse in a household that didn't believe in picking him up every time he cried and dammit, I wanted someone to appreciate that. My husband did more than his share, and is the best partner ever, but he couldn't solve this for me.

For what it's worth, I, a total stranger, appreciates the hell out of what you're doing. It is damn hard.

I will also say that I felt 100% better a few weeks after I threw out my books (literally, I did not take them with me when I moved). Also, when my son started reacting to things I did, my instincts took a major leap forward - what I'm doing is still a lot of menial labor, but I found there are now joys I didn't get with a new new baby. Breastfeeding still isn't my idea of a good time, but it's effortless now... and he smiles at me most sessions









Finally, knowing that this is my one and only child has helped me to enjoy the good moments a lot more - make the decision that this is your only child and you must savor him as such. Even if you change your mind someday, the decision might help you be at peace.

I am not an AP mom, I am not a mainstream mom, but I am a great mom anyway. So are you. Get someone to come in and hold the baby for a few hours, bringing him to you only for feedings (you go to him whenever you want), and find yourself again. You will be okay.

My two cents. Well, three, given how long this was... you just hit a recent nerve for me! Please feel free to PM.


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## Bad Horse (Mar 17, 2008)

Also, I want to say that, yeah, every new mom has those times, maybe even a few weeks of thinking about how hard it is. It can be a normal thing.

BUT your baby is 4 months old, and if you still feel this way all of the time and it's been this way, that is outside the realm of normal.


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
But I'm so SICK of this. All this feminist self esteem crap just does NOT seem to apply if you're trying to do AP parenting. My feelings do NOT matter.

I agree with you here-- I think in some situations, for some moms, AP done to the extreme turns into a (self) abusive situation for the mother. I had to learn where to draw the line some years ago, for my own safety and sanity. I do as much as I can AP-wise but I have learned to recognize my limits and I respect them, for the most part.


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## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
Does anyone else wonder if they should have had their baby in the first place? People say it gets better, but it's not really happening yet. Then there are the people with older children who say babies are so great, and so much easier,


RaeAnne,

I agree that what you're feeling _could_ well be a normal reaction to what sounds like a colicky infant.

I'm not saying its not PPD -- although I think what would have been mild baby blues in a woman can be made much worse by a colicky infant, too.

Neither of mine were colicky, but one of my friend's was, and it is so hard, and so torturous, and it os SO SO EASY for people whose babies were NOT colicky to brush you off, make you feel like the worst mother in the world. And honestly, its worse in AP circles, because so many people buy into the "If you hold them all the time and wear them and cosleep and nurse your baby will be perfect and will never cry."

Newsflash: That's not true.

The one thing I remember from my friend's bout with a colicky baby? Get help. Get time for yourself. There is no shame in saying you need to get away, you _need_ time when you can hear yourself think. Ask a friend to come walk her for an hour between feedings. Find a young mother's helper who can give you a hand. Don't let anyone guilt you into thinking if you let someone else hold her for an hour or two so that you can clear your head that you're doing irreparable damage.


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## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

I have had those days too. And my son isn't colicky. We sometimes have to sit down and discuss putting him up on freecycle, or selling him to a circus (discounts for touring circuses that only come to town every five years or so).

Sleep deprivation is torture. Hungry people are cranky people. Martyrs are crappy caregivers.

Someone upthread suggested that you toss the books out, and I agree. Pitch 'em. If you must have books, I suggest Anne Lammott's "Operating Instructions", which won't give you much in the way of advice, and contains some reassuring revelations from an apparantly very good mother concerning her desire to fire the baby. Don't read things that make you feel bad.

AP is not the only way to parent. It is, in fact, highly historically unusual. Even in cultures where babywearing and on-demand nursing are standard, they don't carry it to the extreme that the AP books suggest. Also, I agree, you cannot prevent your child from ever crying.

You need help, honey, and you need it in the worst way. Find someone to watch the baby for an hour or so so you can go for a walk. Or find someone to take the baby for a walk for an hour or two so you can take a nap. Ideally, both.


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## momtoafireteam (Aug 8, 2007)

Yes, its totally normal!

For people with PPD. Get some help. Its not normal to feel this way and not have something wrong, sorry.

And P.S- I have moments every day where I want to run away, and I am bad at AP'ing, I actually dont consider myself an AP in many ways, and sometimes when all the kids are screaming I want to scream for them all to go away. But long term, all day long resentment and dislike like that is different. JMVHO.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I actually think it's outside the realm of normal. I know you dont' want to talk about PPD, but I think something is going on.









:


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## MomAndOliver (May 8, 2005)

I only wanted to add one thing - have you made sure that there's no other reason that your little one is crying all the time? My son had pretty bad reflux, and I remember feeling exactly the same way when he just never, ever stopped crying. Well, he was basically vomiting into his mouth and reswallowing it all the time (so we didn't usually seem him throw up, so it took us awhile to catch it). He was medicated for it, and once he was no longer in constant pain, he turned into the pretty easy-going guy he's been since then. He only needed the medicine for a couple of months, and I don't regret it a bit. Definitely may not be the same situation for you, but I wanted to mention it because you talk about your little one being so colicky. I also eventually found that wearing him a lot helped keep him happy, but I suspect you have already tried that.


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## a(TM)?Star (Oct 13, 2005)

I just wanted to add something to the OP'er. Have you embraced that you are a mom yet? I know this can take a while, but you need to. Check out your baby for other possibilities for the crying like health issues........if everything is okay, which I hope it is, then you need to accept this. It will get better, but every stage of parenting has sucky parts. Your life has changed forever, it will never go back to what it was, so accepting this can make a huge difference. There is so much anger in you that I can see from your post. I'm glad you felt comfortable putting those things in it, but I will be brutally honest: if you don't get help, it will only get worse. Your baby needs you, so do what you have to so you can feel better about this, they pick up on your mood, she may be reading you, and be getting upset. I'm not saying this to hurt you........but how can you deny PPD as an issue?


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## savvybabygrace (Feb 15, 2007)

I just wanted to come back to add that you DO matter. Your feelings matter, your stress matters, your sleep matters, your hunger and thirst matters.

I have days where I feel like I'm nothing, just big boobs to feed with. Like I don't matter, like I'm not important, like I've given up on my dreams. But those days go away and eventually motherhood doesn't seem like a burden, but a gift.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I didn't enjoy my dd as a baby. I will leave it at that. But I was still AP. I just adore her since she turned 2. Parenting is so great once they hit 2 imo. I now have another baby, but he isn't quite as difficult as my first so I don't mind it as much. But I do look forward to when he can walk and talk and that kind of stuff. I don't like to need to walk around holding a baby when I am tired or my arms/back hurt from doing it for so many hours. Yes, my toddler tells me no and runs away, there are tantrums, but it is so much better than when they are helpless and rely on you for every. little. thing. I am loving toddlerhood. I hope that you have the same feelings as I do. Some peoples don't like babies. Thats ok. Some people don't like toddlers, some don't like school age, some don't like teens or the elderly. I have difficulty with babies. But the rest are a lot of fun imo. Every age has its difficulties, I feel babies are difficult, especially if you have a colicy and high needs baby like my dd was. I hope parenting gets better for you as your baby gets older.

I do things a bit different with this baby. With my dd, I never let her cry for anything and I burnt out. With this one I will let him cry while I eat, drink, pee/poo, or shower. (I offer to nurse first and make sure his diaper is clean and dry) To me, those are needs and if I don't have those needs met I am not a good mom. If your physical needs aren't met you will be miserable. Maybe its not fully AP that I let my baby cry while I get a drink, but it keeps me from resenting my baby.


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## roostery (Jan 23, 2004)

I'm so sorry, that just sucks.

And I think that I understand. When DD was a month old I remember the women at the vet cooing over DD and I just looked at them unsmiling and said "you need to think really, really hard before you do this. It is much harder than you think it is". And I knew that they just looked at me and thought that I had PPD but I knew I didn't, my DD was just a whole heck of a lot more work than most LO's.

My DD was very high need and your LO sure sounds that way too. It is a lot more difficult for parents of high need babies, and other parents just don't get it.

A friend said something that helped me. She said that she believed that we are given the children that we are capable of parenting and that she was amazed at what I was doing. I think that you are right there too RaeAnne. You are working much harder than most parents will ever have to.

Before we left the hospital one of the nurses told me that babies who cried like my LO used to be flagged for potential abuse. It's an odd thing to say to a new mother but I found it helpful to realize that I was dealing with a situation that most parents found extremely challenging.

I don't know if it'll help you but I found that it was really difficult to be sympathetic to my 1st DD when she was shrieking like a steamwhistle in my ear so I used earplugs.

I also found that I could do better with one 3 hour block of sleep at the beginning of the night. So at about 7pm I handed DD to DH after I fed her and said OK, I'm going to bed, PLEASE do not wake me for 3 hours. DD was often unhappy about it but she had her Daddy to hold her and I was a much more friendly mama after I had that initial 3 hours.

I hope that things are going better.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Oh momma, I identify with you and I don't think I have PPD, I just haven't slept in _forever_.

And last night I about lost it because the baby was sleeping good (two nights in a row) and then I realized I left the slow cooker on all night until it started to smell and burn. Only cooked the roast an extra 10 hours. So we had some hullaboo aroudn that.

Then the police knocked on our door. DH had left the siphon in the gas tank and they wanted to be sure someone wasn't stealing our gas.

No, just sleep deprived parents who are lucky they haven't set the house and cars on fire yet.

They woke DD up and she was PISSED from 3-6 when she finally slept...for a 1/2 hour.







:

The thing that makes me so mad is that we could be having such a good time if I was well rested. My DD is adorable and so cute, but I don't have the energy! I'm exhausted and I need to rest and I can't because it's either her having a bad night (and she's a horrid napper so I _never_ get a break) or something else. I've had a stress cold for three weeks, my asthma is flaring up and my eyes have been bloodshot for three months.

And the boob thing isn't working for us at all. We are on week three of a nursing/teething strike and all DD does is bite me. My milk is drying up.









I don't think you have to have PPD to be miserable.









Tomorrow DH is taking some time off and hopefully I'll get a nap in. I'm past the point where a good night's sleep will help, I need serious sleep if I'm going to be able to function normally. After that I think I'm going to have to hire a sitter.

With sleep all things are possible.

V


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## chpiper (Jul 2, 2007)

Ohh my...I can't even imagine how you feel, and I am so sorry that you are feeling this way...I'm also glad you were able to write about it and seek some advice, it looks like you have already been given alot to think about...

I don't have a clue if you have PPD or not, but it sounds like you could use some help either way...could you talk with your dr or mw to see if they have any resources in your area for new parents? Maybe a support group, counselors with experience in pregnancy/baby related problems? While you really may not have PPD, you may find some helpful advice from talking with someone in person who can give you some ideas on how to avoid feeling the way you do now...It might feel good to have someone else watch your baby for a little while, while you go out by yourself...especially if you would be out learning things to try to improve your situation...

For some this may be normal, for others it may not be...but it is not good to feel this way every day, and I think getting some help is the first step in getting you to feel better...normal/abnormal for anyone else doesn't really seem to matter...

If you have any friends or family around, you may consider asking them to help you for a little while...it might do you alot of good to be able to do a few things in your day without hearing your baby cry...that would be difficult for any of us...if you can get someone to stay with your baby...something as simple as going for a walk alone can help get you through the day...would your baby ride in a stroller or a car without crying? If so, I would certainly try taking her for a walk or a car ride...

I hope you are able to feel better soon...


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## lyterae (Jul 10, 2005)

I'm so sorry you're feeling this way, my dd was born via ceserean after a failed natural birth. I then discovered after over a month of nursing almost 24/7 (literally!) that I had IGT and was unable to make enough milk.

I hated being a mom, I had days that I had to call my hubby home from work because I couldn't bear to touch my daughter. I was exhausted, physically and emotionally. I did end up going on antidepressants and they made a world of difference for me, I was able to start functioning and get out of bed and I wasn't cowering in the corner with my ears covered everytime she cried. It did take me a long time to bond with her and I didn't even "like" her until she was closer to 6 months old. I missed out on the newborn/baby stage with her and I regret it.

If you have family or friends that can give you a few hours off, take it! Brainstorm to find out what you can do to make things better, do you need to have your bed to yourself, would pumping and bottlefeeding be better? I know it doesn't seem like it now, but these are precious times with your little one.








Best of luck to you


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## Ofwait (Feb 16, 2008)

I think you ought to get both yourself and your DD checked out medically. Most babes aren't going to cry like you are discribing without there being something going on, keeping in mind that she may very well be picking up on your disease and discomfort.

I had PPD with my 2nd DD, I remember both DD's crying and me not knowing what to do and sitting them both in the living room screaming at them to shut up and then hiding in my room. I called my Dr that day, he diagnosed PPD and put my on Zoloft. I have to say it made huge difference, I felt so much better, I started getting the girls out of the house. They were happier, I was happier, my marriage improved, and I lost 40 pounds! I was only on it about 9 months, weened off and haven't needed it again.

Please, please get some help. If you think you are going to hurt your DD you really need to get some help.


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## Danelle78 (Dec 29, 2005)

It's okay to rant, get it out, here is as good a place as any.

I searched your posts and see that you had a traumatic birth. Yes, it was traumatic, no it's not what you expected. Yes, it's okay to be disappointed and upset about how things went, but it wasn't your fault or her fault.

Yes, in those circumstances it does take longer to bond. You didn't get the nice loving family scene with the insta-latch baby. Yes, it's okay to grieve for the birth you thought you would have.

But know, that She loves you. And in part some of her crying may be from your sense of frustration and exhaustion. My little one does not react well when DH is stressed out, they know when things aren't right.

Also, yes, all those factors can be huge contributors to PPD, even though you don't want to hear it. I don't expect you to react well to my post, but I think it needed to be said.


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## veganone (May 10, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MomAndOliver* 
I only wanted to add one thing - have you made sure that there's no other reason that your little one is crying all the time? My son had pretty bad reflux, and I remember feeling exactly the same way when he just never, ever stopped crying. Well, he was basically vomiting into his mouth and reswallowing it all the time (so we didn't usually seem him throw up, so it took us awhile to catch it). He was medicated for it, and once he was no longer in constant pain, he turned into the pretty easy-going guy he's been since then. He only needed the medicine for a couple of months, and I don't regret it a bit. Definitely may not be the same situation for you, but I wanted to mention it because you talk about your little one being so colicky. I also eventually found that wearing him a lot helped keep him happy, but I suspect you have already tried that.

I have to second this. I'm so sorry that you're struggling so much, momma. It could be PPD, or it could be that your LO has something going on medically and is in pain and needs medication or some other treatment. I have a reflux baby who also has reactions to foods in my diet (severe gas, etc). She can cry with the best of them, but once I got my diet altered for her and got her on reflux meds, she's a different baby. She is still higher needs than most babies - she was early and the first few weeks really were hell for me, too.

I wish you peace and rest.


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## lyttlewon (Mar 7, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
You've been through a year riding the hormonal rollercoaster, and I personally hate this age (my youngest is 3 months old) most of all. I hate the dependence, the desire for interaction, entertainment, more, more, more. I love the baby though- and with him being my fourth, I know that this is just an age I don't like very much. It is tough- it's really, really tough.









: I really don't like newborn babies. Toddlers or about 6-9 months and up are much better.

Quote:

You are absolutely spot-on, that society sends out mixed messages: half the world is telling you to wrap your baby in a blanket and put her in a cot to sleep, and if she cries, so be it. The other half is telling you to hold your baby close, rock her to sleep, cuddle her all night long and even though you burnt out long ago and you feel like total crap, her needs are more important. There's a huge contrast there, and no matter what you do, it's never going to be enough for someone. Throw the books away. Find your own way.








: DD had colic and it totally sucked. Have you looked into having her adjusted by a chiro?


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## suprgrl (Sep 27, 2005)

I relate to a lot of your feelings. I had a really hard time adjusting to our first baby. I had no family or friends around and DH was working 16 hours/day. DS1 was also unplanned... so lots of life changes very quickly for us. I also had a difficult birth with hours of separation from DS1 immediatly after he was born. I had such a hard time bonding with him, and struggled with always seeing him as in my way.

I admire you for having the courage to admit your dark thoughts and feelings. You must be quite a strong woman. Those feelings were so overwhelming and scary to me.
It helped me to get out of the house.
Talk to someone who would not think I was insane or wrong for having those feelings.
Find projects/hobbies I enjoyed doing.
Accept that life would have a much different pace for a while.
Try my best to enjoy the moment...especially the good ones...just soak those up.
Nap with the baby!
Eat chocolate








Go to playgroups/LLL/API groups
Take a time out for myself when overwhelmed
Get some time alone without a baby at least once a week even if just for 20-30 minutes. Go read at a coffee shop/library, bike ride, lurk on MDC etc.

Every age has its struggles... but also its blessings. I love that my 2.5 yo talks to me, can tell me he loves me, thinks I am funny, enjoys any time he gets to be with me, makes up jokes. So far I don't see much that is terrible about the twos at all! jme


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GooeyRN* 
Parenting is so great once they hit 2 imo. I now have another baby, but he isn't quite as difficult as my first so I don't mind it as much. But I do look forward to when he can walk and talk and that kind of stuff. I don't like to need to walk around holding a baby when I am tired or my arms/back hurt from doing it for so many hours. Yes, my toddler tells me no and runs away, there are tantrums, but it is so much better than when they are helpless and rely on you for every. little. thing. I am loving toddlerhood. I hope that you have the same feelings as I do. Some peoples don't like babies. Thats ok. Some people don't like toddlers, some don't like school age, some don't like teens or the elderly. I have difficulty with babies. But the rest are a lot of fun imo. Every age has its difficulties, I feel babies are difficult, especially if you have a colicy and high needs baby like my dd was. I hope parenting gets better for you as your baby gets older.

*I do things a bit different with this baby. With my dd, I never let her cry for anything and I burnt out. With this one I will let him cry while I eat, drink, pee/poo, or shower. (I offer to nurse first and make sure his diaper is clean and dry) To me, those are needs and if I don't have those needs met I am not a good mom. If your physical needs aren't met you will be miserable. Maybe its not fully AP that I let my baby cry while I get a drink, but it keeps me from resenting my baby.*


I have to totally agree with Gooey here! I learned A LOT from my first baby. I was wired as hell with her, and she was a fireball (still is a two year old) and with my second I have learned I have needs too. I seem to be a better mommy if my basic needs are met (I eat, sleep kinda well, and nourish myself and take time for myself) to my kids. You need to do these things, it is necessary, it is not an option, you NEED to do these things as a stress reliever. I agree with most everyone else, why such a big deal about PPD? There is NOTHING to be ashamed of if you have it (I did with my first and didn't know it until my OB diagnosed me) Please get help for you and your LO.
BIG HUGS!!!


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## meowee (Jul 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoafireteam* 
Yes, its totally normal!

For people with PPD. Get some help. Its not normal to feel this way and not have something wrong, sorry.

I didn't have PPD, but I was pushing myself too hard and not taking care of myself, and I was not respecting my own needs or physical/ emotional boundaries. There is a difference between that and PPD. Of course the OP could have PPD, we have no way of knowing, but there are other causes for feeling this kind of desperation and resentment, besides depression.


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Danelle78* 
It's okay to rant, get it out, here is as good a place as any.

I searched your posts and see that you had a traumatic birth. Yes, it was traumatic, no it's not what you expected. Yes, it's okay to be disappointed and upset about how things went, but it wasn't your fault or her fault.

Yes, in those circumstances it does take longer to bond. You didn't get the nice loving family scene with the insta-latch baby. Yes, it's okay to grieve for the birth you thought you would have.

But know, that She loves you. And in part some of her crying may be from your sense of frustration and exhaustion. My little one does not react well when DH is stressed out, they know when things aren't right.

Also, yes, all those factors can be huge contributors to PPD, even though you don't want to hear it. I don't expect you to react well to my post, but I think it needed to be said.









Very nicely put.

RaeAnne (that's my dd's nickname!), you really would benefit from seeing a therapist. You need help.









And if the baby cries so much, have her seen by a chiropractor.


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## SarahGuinn (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meowee* 
I didn't have PPD, but I was pushing myself too hard and not taking care of myself, and I was not respecting my own needs or physical/ emotional boundaries. There is a difference between that and PPD. Of course the OP could have PPD, we have no way of knowing, but there are other causes for feeling this kind of desperation and resentment, besides depression.











Not everyone who is resentful and angry about parenting when they first get thrown into the ring are dealing with mental health problems. It is normal and human. Yes, some are dealing with ppd.

Please don't make blanket statements.


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

OP, I read some of your other posts, and your baby was in the NICU? My son had mec aspiration and spent a week in the NICU. I get it.

I would look into PPD/PTSD. I had both, and I felt much better when they were treated.


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## jamiew (Oct 3, 2007)

Your daughter is very new and starting a new life is a massive thing for such little people as babies. Just hold her as much as you want, and take care of her the way you see fit.

Our tiny daughter was *so addicted* to her pacifier when she was born. By 7 months, she decided she'd had enough and now she LOVES boob time. Sometimes I wish she'd take her pacifier every so often.

These first weeks are a HUGE adjustment. Just stick with it, it'll get easier! You'll fall in love with your baby just like they say you should, for me it took a few weeks, it wasn't immediate (I had a c-section and a pinched nerve in my back to boot, so I was feeling awful for quite a while).


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## daniedb (Aug 8, 2004)

It's funny...my first was so easygoing. Both boys had RSV as infants, but H was just such an easy baby, he was a great nighttime sleeper. I had terrible PPD, didn't know it, and thought that I was going to die. It was honestly the hardest thing I've ever done. He and I had a very difficult time working out the breastfeeding relationship, we finally did it, but not without weeks of tears and anxiety and stress. I can't count the hours I spent sobbing on the floor. He never napped, but STTN at 5w5d, and slept for 12 hours straight, woke to nurse then went back down for another 3 hours at 8 weeks old. Still, it just about killed me.

I got on Zoloft when he was about 4-5 months old, and suddenly, I felt capable and like I could handle things, and I started to enjoy this whole mothering thing. Then I had B, and he was a terribly colicky little thing, and spent anywhere from 4-8 hours a day just screaming. Just screaming and writhing and poor baby, just needing to be held. I started on Zoloft when he was 2 weeks old and I could feel that old nasty PPD feeling I'd had with H come over me. When B hit the colicky stage at 3 weeks, I was able to sit with him for hours at a time and just hold him, and be calm, and sing and tell him how we were going to get through this together, and I held on to those moments as if they were treasures, because I knew that they were going to fly by, and he was going to be a year old, and then 2, very soon...

There is a world of difference in how I feel, and I would never have known. You could have knocked me over with a feather when my therapist told me that she thought I had PPD. I thought she was nuts. I figured that trying Zoloft wasn't going to hurt, so I might as well...and it truly did change everything. It can't hurt to look into it, sweetheart. Anything that will make it better, yes? You and your baby deserve a better experience than you are having.


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## karina5 (Apr 15, 2006)

RaeAnn, I could have written your post when DS was a tiny baby. I thought I had made the biggest mistake, I was resentful, the sleep deprivation was making me quite literally crazy, and so on. I missed my old life and I could not wait to go back to work. I wanted to give my DS to my brother.

Now when I type that out I sort of laugh (w/ embarassment) b/c my DS is the JOY of my life. He is almost 3. But when he was a newborn I couldn't comprehend things getting any easier.

Guess what, though. I look back and I realize I had severe PPD. I'm not sure why you don't want to talk about that (I hope you're not ashamed - you shouldn't be) but that's what it is. It didn't really register w/ me at the time that that was going on. I guess on some level it did, but.....I don't know...I can't explain it, but I didn't want to talk about it when it was happening.

Get yourself some help. PPD can last a while. I didn't get help for it until DS was 2 months old and I wish I had gotten help earlier.








to you. Hang in there, and no you're not alone. Don't be afraid to get help, and don't avoid discussions about PPD.


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## Juliacat (May 8, 2002)

I feel like that sometimes, although my feelings are not as intense as yours.

Your needs DO matter very much, but your baby is not yet old enough to understand that. She's NOT doing it purposely to thwart you.


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## alijased (Jun 1, 2006)

IT is amazing to read how many moms feel the same way. Thank God, becuase I feel like that 4-5 days out of the week. It is not all day, usually about an hour or two each day. I wonder if it would be easier if I wasn't in the picture. But than I have awesome days (like yesterday) and it really helps.
I think for me, working part time will help a ton also. YOu know, as a human noone is completely satisfied. If you don't have kids, you wonder if you should, and if you do you wonder what life would be like w/o.

Oh well...


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## sewingmama (Mar 15, 2007)

Oh, mama, I just wanted to send you some big hugs! I'm so sorry you are having such a rough time!

We all have tough days, days where we feel like our little ones are inconsolable and where we just can't get it right. It sounds like you're having more than a few of those! It sounds like your baby is very high-needs. I don't think your feelings are necessarily abnormal, considering that it sounds like you are stressed and tired, but I don't think you just have to accept that that's how you feel either.

A few things I would suggest trying:
-Please, please do talk to someone about PPD. I would also suggest having your thyroid levels checked, maybe iron too.
-I'd talk to the pediatrician about silent reflux -- it can cause babies to be miserable, even though they're not visibly spitting up. You might also try cutting out certain foods from your diet while nursing (dairy is a common problem) to see if they help her at all.
-Look for a chiropractor for your baby. Sometimes they can make a huge difference for infants.
-Do you have a comfortable sling or carrier? That might help her nap a bit better, and it's a break for your arms. The lovely people at thebabywearer.com can help you find one that is right for you, your baby, and your budget.
-If a swing or bouncy chair help her sleep better so that you're not so stressed out, then great! Or putting her carseat in the car and going for a ride, or taking a walk or whatever.
-Will she sleep on the bed if you are lying next to her? If so, then no matter what else needs to be done, give yourself permission to lie down and nap with her. Sleep deprivation makes everything just so much worse and harder.


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## keeptryst (Jan 12, 2008)

First of all hugs to you, I feel your pain. You were brave and honest enough to face up to your feelings and post them - I bet you felt better after that post alone, eh?

I think the key is acceptance. All mothers everywhere are linked in this vast sisterhood of sacrifice, service and love. The only thing that keeps the wheels of duty and sacrifice rolling smoothly is love - and if you can't quite muster up love yet, start with acceptance. When she won't stop crying even when all her needs are met, when she wakes up for the nth time at night, when you hear that inevitable whimper after just 10 minutes of naptime, don't stiffen yourself in resistance or put energy into wishing it wasn't happening...just loosen up and accept yes, she's crying again, yes, she's woken up for the 17th time, yes she wants to be held all the time, yes, yes, YES to everything. Just surrender to it. You know this too shall pass, though it might seem like it's an eternity now.


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## momtoafireteam (Aug 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SarahGuinn* 
:
Not everyone who is resentful and angry about parenting when they first get thrown into the ring are dealing with mental health problems. It is normal and human.

I totally agree its not going to be constant sunshine and roses and gerber commercial. Obviously its normal to have moments of "WTF did I do??!" at 2am when you are sleep deprived and starving and everything seems to be dismal.

But sorry, four months of hating every second with your baby, and having that kind of anger and repulsion towards your child...is NOT normal and human. It requires help and attention.


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## acp (Apr 15, 2007)

I think a lot of mamas on here have great thoughts and suggestions. It might be ppd, it might not be, and it sounds like your baby is very high needs, but I do think it's totally normal to not be feeling over the moon about motherhood, to feel like you're drowning in someone else's needs and losing yourself, and to be incredibly frustrated. It IS a thankless job, especially in the early months. And it can be hard to see so many mother romanticizing and loving those newborn days, and wondering what's wrong that you don't feel the same way.
The big things I'd say (and echo from others' posts) are:
- get some help, and find some time to yourself. I think there are a few women who really are content being with their LOs 24/7, but many of us need a few hours here and there to just be ourselves, with no one "needing" us quite so much. Go for a walk, or a bike ride, or get a pedicure, or visit with a friend, or take a nap - whatever you'd find refreshing and relaxing, and that would help you remember that you're still "you," despite now also being a mom.
- Go outside with your LO, get out, go for walks, try to meet other mothers so you can have some adult interaction, etc.
- consider the possibility that it could be PPD and look into treatment
- realize that it really DOES get better. Those people who say "oh, enjoy it now, soon they'll be talking back to you" don't know what the hell they're talking about, IMO. Every single month that DD has gotten older has been better than the month before. She's more interactive, more fun, and it's not nearly so thankless and monotonous. And it becomes much rarer that they cry for no reason. I feel like I have my life back now, to some extent. Different than pre-baby, of course, but it's not the way it was in those first few months when i wondered if i could ever just be myself again.

With all that, and having had a relatively easy baby, i still am not sure that I'd feel as good about motherhood now if I was a fulltime SAHM. That's meaning no offense at all to women who do stay home - and I often feel guilt about leaving my LO in someone else's care some of the time - it's just knowing myself, and the fact that as much as I love my daughter, and love motherhood, I need to have some other, more intellectually stimulating and adult-oriented interaction/purpose in my life. Then I appreciate the time I do spend with my daughter that much more. I don't think this is the case for everyone - I only mention it because I think that for someone, recognizing that need, if they have it, can make them a better and happier parent.

Hang in there!







2


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## finn'smama (Jan 11, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thismama* 
I actually think it's outside the realm of normal. I know you dont' want to talk about PPD, but I think something is going on.

I have to agree. My ppd manifested in a similar way (although I had those kinds of feelings towards my toddler, not the baby). I didn't get help until 5 months pp, and I wish I had done it sooner. If you're feeling like this all of the time, I don't think it's normal.








Fwiw, I also really rejected the idea of it being ppd and felt that I was just an inadequate mother, that I should have been able to deal with it.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meowee* 
I agree with you here-- I think in some situations, for some moms, AP done to the extreme turns into a (self) abusive situation for the mother. I had to learn where to draw the line some years ago, for my own safety and sanity. I do as much as I can AP-wise but I have learned to recognize my limits and I respect them, for the most part.

Ita with this too...

A

A


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## SarahGuinn (Mar 6, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoafireteam* 
I totally agree its not going to be constant sunshine and roses and gerber commercial. Obviously its normal to have moments of "WTF did I do??!" at 2am when you are sleep deprived and starving and everything seems to be dismal.

But sorry, four months of hating every second with your baby, and having that kind of anger and repulsion towards your child...is NOT normal and human. It requires help and attention.

The hating every second statement seems to be yours, not hers, and I reread.


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

Your experience sounds a lot like mine with my daughter, who was my second child. She was colicky, fussy, and miserable. She wasn't into nursing--she's latch on for five minutes every three hours and if you offered it off her little schedule, she'd scream in your face. She didn't want to co-sleep. She sucked her thumb. She didn't seem to like me very much. It wasn't until she was hospitalized at 18 months that I finally felt I had bonded with her. When I told my husband that, he said he didn't know whether to be happy for me or shocked because he had no idea there were still issues.

I did have PPD. Medication was like a miracle to me, and so was having good friends and a support system. All the suggestions here are good ones. Even if you don't want to label what's going on as PPD, following some of the suggestions may still help. It sounds as if you are really, really frustrated to the point where you are feeling like you may do something harmful to your baby. No matter where that's coming from--PPD, lack of sleep, lack of support, or something else--it definitely merits looking at and trying to figure out.


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

You have a very high needs baby. Everyone here who has never had one CANNOT know what you are going through. At all.

I had a traumatic birth experience, followed by a week long NICU stay, and extreme colic on top of a very high needs baby. The sleep deprivation, the physical healing taking place, and dealing with PTSD (both myself, and, I believe, my ds) took its toll. I think your little one is reacting to her entrance to the world. She was probably going to be high needs anyways, but the trauma of her birth has caused her to feel even less secure & therefore more needy.

My ds was having nightmares until about 5 months, which I believe, where from his birth. We were separated the first 24 hours while he was poked, proded and didn't know a soul. He also is EXTREMELY sensitive to corn, dairy, garlic and potatoes.

Why am I telling you this? Because I want you to know that you are not alone. I don't think many of the people who tell you this isn't "normal" know what they are talking about. You are recuperating from the birth, both physically, mentally & emotionally. You are drained. Yet you are suffering from sleep-deprivation and a constantly crying baby. Your adrenals may also be shot. Mine were already crap during pregnancy. Shot adrenals can be contributing to the lack of coping too. I am still dealing with them, since it takes a lot of time to fix.

I have been there. There were nights were all I could do was hand ds to his dad, while crying my eyes out and so frustrated that I wanted to get into a physical altercation with someone to just burn off the steam. Having a high needs, colicy, and traumatized baby is *NOT* the norm. Therefore everyone telling you that what your feeling is not normal is *WRONG*. *Only if you've been there before do you know what it is like*.

I will say that _*4 months is still too young for the "they get better as they get older" comment.*_ I started to really see changes around 6 months, and now that ds is almost 9 months, it is SOOOOO much better. Your daughter is probably still in her colic phase. It'll take a while to phase out. It's not always instantaneous.

Get Dr. Sear's Parenting the High needs & fussy baby book. Or look here http://www.askdrsears.com/html/5/t050100.asp

It helped a lot. Also, one feature of high needs babies are that they usually develop mentally a lot faster than physically. Once they realize that everyone can sit/move/run and pick up stuff, they want to do that too. And it pisses them off that they can't. They know what they want and don't give up easily, if at all.

Your dd will not stop crying if you let her CIO. That's the difference between high needs babies and "normal" babies. They won't give up. So don't feel like CIO is an alternative. It would lead to the same situation, but further traumatize you & your little one.
Oh, and nursing felt like torture for me too for at least the first 5 months because the only way ds knew how to comfort himself was boobie. I felt trapped just like you. One thing that helped was getting lots of books, the computer and/or the tv near my during those nursing marathons. I still do this when he needs boobie for a few hours. That way I can switch around and not feel completely trapped.

_*Helpful things to do:*_
Keep wearing, nursing, playing with your baby (even if she's screaming)

Eliminate major allergens from your diet. It'll take at least 2 weeks to work out of your lo's system. Try Corn, Soy, Wheat and dairy to start. Focus on rice dishes,lol.

Give your husband your daughter and LEAVE THE HOUSE. Take some money with you and wander in a thrift/dollar store if money is tight. Main thing is GET OUT. If that means your lo will have a bottle of formula, it is worth it and it WON'T impact your supply. Make this a daily habit. Well, at least 5 days a week, or something. It helps so much to have a block of an hour or two just for yourself. It's addictive.









You can give dh your lo to care for during the first half of the night. In those early months, dh took ds from 12am-4am, I got him from 4am to 8am, then dh would get up and walk him around after I had fed him for an hour while I slept in. Those 4 hours of solid sleep HELPED so much!!! Move it around to work with your dh's work schedule.

Drink Gatorade or some other electrolyte drink. You need to give your body replacements to recuperate from birth. Make sure you are getting enough iron. Stock things you can make quickly (think frozen convenience foods). Trader Joe's Indian and curry foil pouches & frozen brown rice saved my butt during those early days.

Get some hylands colic calm tablets, cocyntal and gripe water. Use liberally. Ds suffered from aweful tummy aches and those three would calm him enough to get him to sleep. Here's a link: http://www.nextag.com/colic-baby-remedy/search-html

To solve the night sleep issues, have you thought of sidecarring a crib? It is awesome. Put ds in the crib, lie into it, nurse him to sleep, then lift yourself off & onto your bed. I can move without disturbing him, and I can sleep deeper since he's on "his" side, kwim? Here's a link: http://groups.msn.com/SteveandLishsF...decarcrib.msnw

Your little one may also be cranky from lack of sleep. I finally (within the last month) figured out that whenever my son does a deep, frantic, full blown crying so hard he can't breath type of cry, it's because he is COMPLETELY exhausted and doesn't know how to get to sleep. All it takes is putting him to the boob & in 5 min, he's gone. It took him a few months to really ingrain the connection between boob, calmness, relaxation & sleep, mind you. But once he did, it was his fallback. Oh, and ds hated napping and would not sleep until he was that exhausted. I tried.

Things will get better. Right now you are laying the foundation of trust for your little one. Believe me, my son was just as bad. Nowadays, he may still have some fits 'cuz he wants to move (still not crawling) but he calms down as soon as he is in my arms. This took him many, many months of repeated behavior for him to fully trust in it. Even now, whenever he is feeling insecure, he wants me, not his dad or anyone else. This is from following AP principles, I believe. It will take time.

And not everyone enjoys the infant stage. I don't like the newborn stage at all (they are tiny & cute, but everything else sucks). Once she's able to sit up & be more interactive, it will get better & better, little by little. My mom did not like the infant stage at all. She likes the kindergarten age & up. It all depends on the person.

Sending lots & lots of ((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))

Ami


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

"I think you just haven't bonded with your baby yet and this is completely normal."

No, it is _not_ normal. It's common, yes, but not normal in the least. And it falls right in line with her having had a traumatic birth.

RaeAnne, I haven't read the whole thread so I'm sorry if someone already made this point. But it sounds to me that you're in a vicious cycle. The more stressed out you are, the more stressed out the baby is going to be, because those stress hormones get transferred to her. That means it's not your fault, and it's not her fault, and no you are not crazy or bad for feeling this way. It's completely reasonable given the circumstances. The trick is finding the way out of the vicious cycle, or hanging on until it winds down.


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## NettleTea (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *momtoafireteam* 
But sorry, four months of hating every second with your baby, and having that kind of anger and repulsion towards your child...is NOT normal and human. It requires help and attention.

I think you're blowing it out of proportion. Nothing was ever said about anger/repulsion.

Also, it's a bit rude to judge what is not normal and human for one person to feel. You are not them so you couldn't know. Everyone's life is different and every person is built differently.

It's pretty obvious that quite a few people here just aren't getting what the OP is trying to express. And judging by some of the questions being asked some obviously didn't even read her post closely enough....


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## momtoafireteam (Aug 8, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SarahGuinn* 
The hating every second statement seems to be yours, not hers, and I reread.

Subject line.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
Then there are the people with older children who say babies are so great, and so much easier, "Just wait until their running around and saying 'No, then you'll appreciate this time.'" WTF??? Seriously, what if it doesn't get better? Every age has something crappy about it. What if I never like this?

Yeah, people will tell you that. Just ignore them and try to resist the urge to punch them in the nose. Even if it doesn't *actually* get much better, it will feel like it's better, in many cases, and that's what counts.

I think every age does have something crappy about it...and something good that maybe you'll miss after the fact.

As far as PPD goes, well, I believe that a lot of this is part of the post partum experience, and that many many women have feelings like this. Getting help could mean a lot of different things, including what you are doing here with laying out your feelings and hopefully getting some emotional support and commiseration. At least it's a start, right? I think going from having no children to one is a huge thing, it's a complete worldview change in some cases. And parenting does plain suck, sometimes, IMO.

That's not to say that there isn't something medically wrong or that your circumstances aren't unusual. It does sound like you have a really tough situation there, but I do hope it is something that will get better over time. My first child cried a lot more than my second one, who was so easy. I remember despairing when she was crying while I was holding her. I called my sister up, complaining about the crying and not being able to fix it, feeling like I was supposed to understand the code and I just didn't get it. She said that she used to feel overwhelmed too, and after she made sure everything was OK, she'd set her baby down and say, "Cry if you want to, I can't do anything for you." Just that feeling of taking it so personally, like the baby is rejecting you and everything you have to give. Her husband used to have to pace the floors for hours with his crying child in his arms. I was much luckier, I usually could boob her down. That baby crying mom feeling overwhelmed part *does* better, although I do feel like it goes in stages, good months and bad.

I'll be thinking of you.


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## RaeAnne (Mar 7, 2007)

I'm sorry it took so long for me to get back to everyone. Stuff, you know.

I want to reply to a lot of people, but there are too many to have all those quotes, so I hope I address everything.

First, I want to thank the people who said this was normal, and to just "throw away the books." This is a huge part of my problem. Everyone else gets to make the rules, and then I feel like a failure because I never live up to them. This has always been true in every other area of my life, so it makes sense that I would feel like this now. They say it's not your fault if they cry, but if they cry for a reason (and I honestly believe they do), and I can't figure out what the reason is, how is it not my fault that they're still crying? I'm getting off track. I just really appreciate the people who were willing to admit they had hard time with their infants, and it didn't get better for months (or many months). I have always loved kids. I love my niece like my own daughter (she's almost 8). I know about kids that can TALK. I feel like I would rather have a child argue with me, yelling at me, but know why they're mad, than have a baby cry and not know why.

Yes, she did have colic. We finally figured out that it was dairy, so now I'm off of that (which is another stress, because I can't enjoy eating nearly as much, and every once in awhile it is apparent that SOMETHING had dairy in it without me knowing, which makes me feel even more like my efforts aren't enough). She's not crying all the time, she just cries when she's bored, I guess, and tired, and can't fall asleep on her own, so I end up walking her and having to be so CAREFUL, but she STILL starts crying again....

Yes, sleep. It does make a difference in how I feel. And with the ppd, I guess I feel like it invalidates my feelings. Oh, things aren't as bad as you think, it's just hormones. I don't understand how they AREN'T this bad. I feel like I'm being very honest and reasonable, I just get overwhelmed and don't have positive coping mechanisms. I even tried going for a walk with dd, and I HATE being outside, and 2/3 times she CRIED. So even THAT effort wasn't good enough.

And as for leaving her to cry in a safe place... Um, hasn't everyone been putting all this effort into telling everyone that it's abusive to let a baby cry alone because you are essentially telling them that nobody cares about them, so why bother crying anyway? I'm really sorry, but you just can't have it both ways.

And just to make everyone feel better, I don't always feel this way, it's just under the surface all the time. I enjoy when she "talks," when I can make her laugh, when she reaches milestones (I was so excited and surprised when she suddenly rolled over for the first time that I actually cried). I actually appreciate the fact that she knows what she wants and isn't content to be mindless. I'm subborn too, so I see it as a strength. It's just those times when I'm overwhelmed....

I really appreciate those of you who told me you felt the same way. I hope it does get better. I feel like it will, but it seems stupid to think I know about something more than others who have already been through it (the "terrible twos," etc.). I've just wanted to be a mom for SO long, it's scary to think that maybe I s*ck at it and never should have had a baby in the first place.

RaeAnne
dd (1/08)


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## User101 (Mar 3, 2002)

I don't think anyone was suggesting to "leave her cry in a safe place" for any extended amount of time. That would be CIO and would be against the User Agreement. What I saw was people suggesting that if you feel like you're going to lose it, it's OK to put her down for a minute and walk away and collect yourself. It's not ideal for a baby to cry alone, but it's better than a mama hurting the baby. I'm not saying you would, but if you feel like you might, even a little bit, it's the lesser of two evils to walk away.


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## ChattyCat (Sep 7, 2004)

Attachment Parenting is not just about the baby. It's about meeting the needs of the baby in a manner that is conducive to the family. If you have a high-needs baby that cries a lot, it's ok to put the baby down and let her cry while you eat/toilet/shower/dress/etc. You still have to take care of yourself. Attachment parenting fully supports taking care of the mom too. It's really hard to be a good mother to your baby, if you don't take care of yourself first.

I'm sorry that you don't want to hear about PPD. It really does sound like you may have it. This isn't anything to be ashamed about. I was fully prepared for it with my first, and it didn't happen. I figured that I wouldn't ever get it then. I was completely blindsided after my second kid. In the depths of PPD, I didn't think that I had it either. It can be really hard to see, when you're in the midst of it. Looking back now, it is really amazing to me how bad it was, and I was unable to see it. Please, don't blow off those of us who are mentioning it. We're bringing it up from a place of love and either having been there ourselves (or knowing someone close us who has), and we see the same things that we felt.


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## Viola (Feb 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChattyCat* 
I'm sorry that you don't want to hear about PPD. It really does sound like you may have it. This isn't anything to be ashamed about.

I think the problem is sometimes it's just such an either or situation. _Oh, problems with the baby and your emotions? Sure sure, it can be hard. Oh, more? It's probably PPD, you should get some help. Now, let's talk about normal life._ Maybe it's just me, but that is how talking about the life changing emotional upheaval, the negative feelings as well as the positive happy stuff felt sometimes. Like if it was really tough, it was this medical condition that could fixed, when in part I feel like it's a symptom of the way we are expected to live our lives these days. And if I wasn't on antidepressants, it's like I have no room to talk because my problem clearly wasn't serious enough. Oh well, sorry to go on about myself, but it's hard to get medical help, even when you are pretty sure you have a real problem. Or maybe I'm just totally ineffectual.


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## suprgrl (Sep 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Viola* 
I think the problem is sometimes it's just such an either or situation. _Oh, problems with the baby and your emotions? Sure sure, it can be hard. Oh, more? It's probably PPD, you should get some help. Now, let's talk about normal life._ Maybe it's just me, but that is how talking about the life changing emotional upheaval, the negative feelings as well as the positive happy stuff felt sometimes. Like if it was really tough, it was this medical condition that could fixed, when in part I feel like it's a symptom of the way we are expected to live our lives these days. And if I wasn't on antidepressants, it's like I have no room to talk because my problem clearly wasn't serious enough. Oh well, sorry to go on about myself, but it's hard to get medical help, even when you are pretty sure you have a real problem. Or maybe I'm just totally ineffectual.

Well put.


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## suprgrl (Sep 27, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
I'm sorry it took so long for me to get back to everyone. Stuff, you know.

I want to reply to a lot of people, but there are too many to have all those quotes, so I hope I address everything.

First, I want to thank the people who said this was normal, and to just "throw away the books." This is a huge part of my problem. Everyone else gets to make the rules, and then I feel like a failure because I never live up to them. This has always been true in every other area of my life, so it makes sense that I would feel like this now. They say it's not your fault if they cry, but if they cry for a reason (and I honestly believe they do), and I can't figure out what the reason is, how is it not my fault that they're still crying? I'm getting off track. I just really appreciate the people who were willing to admit they had hard time with their infants, and it didn't get better for months (or many months). I have always loved kids. I love my niece like my own daughter (she's almost 8). I know about kids that can TALK. I feel like I would rather have a child argue with me, yelling at me, but know why they're mad, than have a baby cry and not know why.

Yes, she did have colic. We finally figured out that it was dairy, so now I'm off of that (which is another stress, because I can't enjoy eating nearly as much, and every once in awhile it is apparent that SOMETHING had dairy in it without me knowing, which makes me feel even more like my efforts aren't enough). She's not crying all the time, she just cries when she's bored, I guess, and tired, and can't fall asleep on her own, so I end up walking her and having to be so CAREFUL, but she STILL starts crying again....

Yes, sleep. It does make a difference in how I feel. And with the ppd, I guess I feel like it invalidates my feelings. Oh, things aren't as bad as you think, it's just hormones. I don't understand how they AREN'T this bad. I feel like I'm being very honest and reasonable, I just get overwhelmed and don't have positive coping mechanisms. I even tried going for a walk with dd, and I HATE being outside, and 2/3 times she CRIED. So even THAT effort wasn't good enough.

And as for leaving her to cry in a safe place... Um, hasn't everyone been putting all this effort into telling everyone that it's abusive to let a baby cry alone because you are essentially telling them that nobody cares about them, so why bother crying anyway? I'm really sorry, but you just can't have it both ways.

And just to make everyone feel better, I don't always feel this way, it's just under the surface all the time. I enjoy when she "talks," when I can make her laugh, when she reaches milestones (I was so excited and surprised when she suddenly rolled over for the first time that I actually cried). I actually appreciate the fact that she knows what she wants and isn't content to be mindless. I'm subborn too, so I see it as a strength. It's just those times when I'm overwhelmed....

I really appreciate those of you who told me you felt the same way. I hope it does get better. I feel like it will, but it seems stupid to think I know about something more than others who have already been through it (the "terrible twos," etc.). I've just wanted to be a mom for SO long, it's scary to think that maybe I s*ck at it and never should have had a baby in the first place.

RaeAnne
dd (1/08)

I really feel for you and I wish it was safer for people to talk about these crazy and scary emotions we sometimes have transitioning into parenthood. It is hard! But you care, so you don't suck as a mom. You obviously care so much about your little girl.... you will get through this hard time.


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## savvybabygrace (Feb 15, 2007)

I read about your birth from other posts...do you think it's possible you have some PTSD?
I've been thinking of you all day long and hoping that wherever you are, whatever you are doing, you are alright. Be gentle with yourself, mama, and know that there are MANY people thinking of you and sending support!


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## HarperRose (Feb 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
I really appreciate those of you who told me you felt the same way. I hope it does get better. I feel like it will, but it seems stupid to think I know about something more than others who have already been through it (the "terrible twos," etc.). I've just wanted to be a mom for SO long, it's scary to think that maybe I s*ck at it and never should have had a baby in the first place.

RaeAnne
dd (1/08)

You don't suck at it.









I don't know if it will be any consolation or what, but I went through it, too, w/ my dd (6 yrs old now) and had just the hardest time feeling like a good mom to her.







It's hard for me to talk about, even now.

I had an 18 mo old w/ autism (un-dx'd until last summer, when he was 7!), so he was super high needs, and then I gave birth to another, differently so, high needs baby. I wanted to die. It was awful. And dd got put on the back burner much of the time (still does, sort of, but we're really working on it) because ds's needs were so much more prominent at that time.

Dd had colic, too, and was just a crier. It was depressing! Now, I realize that she also has sensory processing disorder, just like ds and I, and for all those years she was not given what she needed because I didn't have it to give. I couldn't put her down EVER, she'd wake up every 20 min and cry so I had to hold her all the time, she had to nurse for 5 or 10 minutes every hour or 2 (way different than the pattern my boys have set for themselves), and I just did not have any idea what to do with her.









I wish I'd had help. I didn't have anyone but dh and he was just as worn out from her high needs as I was.

Definitely get all kinds of help, regardless of the cause. You sound as overwhelmed as I was.

I would suggest you try to have friends take the baby for a couple of hours. Send them with a bottle or 2 for her and SLEEP. Get that needed rest. Make an appt w/ a therapist, too, because you clearly had a difficult time bringing her into the world. Sometimes just talking it out helps immensely. Write it out, too.

It DOES get better, but I'm telling you, HELP IS CRUCIAL. Get ppl to take her for a couple hours a couple times a week. It's not going to kill her.

I wish that I had someone to tell me to just ignore all the stupid parenting advice and the books and everything else. (Though I do like Dr Sears' books!) I needed ppl to tell me I was doing fine and they'd be glad to help with her. (We have no family nearby so it rested on just dh and me.) Seek it out. It will be beneficial to you both.


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## MommytoTwo (Jun 20, 2004)

I am so sorry you are going through this. Parenting is incredibly hard work... but the joy should be there too. I would definitely recommend getting evaluated for PPD. I had it, and its not normal and it sucks and you can get better.


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## prancie (Apr 18, 2007)

Don't feel so bad about having resentment and anger. For now it's your actions that matter and you are obviously a wonderful mother. I have a 7.5 month old whom I am dedicated to. I am very much into AP. But, sometimes when he frustrates me to the edge I think about hurting him. I never have and never will, but the thought crosses my mind and scares the hell out of me. I believe that a baby crying, especially crying for a long periods makes us moms' bodies release adrenalin. The adrenalin is what makes us have bad thoughts and do things we might not normally do. It makes sense, biologically. If our anscestor's baby was crying that much it would mean the baby was in danger or being hurt at that moment and we would need extra strength and resolve to do ANYTHING to protect our baby. That is why I always stop my car when ds really gets to crying in his seat. If I drive when he is upset I speed and takes risks I would not normally do and get very angry.

So, as for practical advise, you need a good carrier. One that you can use to carry your dd on your back. Then, you can walk her to sleep while you cook, do chores, take a walk, surf the net, eat, read a book...whatever. My carrier has saved my sanity as my ds is quite high needs. Also, get out more! The more I am home the grouchier ds and I get. He loves to go to stores, and maybe that would be just the ticket for you too. Meet friends and family and spend more time away from home. Interacting with others (especially other kids) is the best way to wear my baby out and assure a good night's rest for us.

Hope this helps.


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## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

You don't suck, you obviously care very much about your little one or you wouldn't have posted









I truly believe that motherhood is over glorified in our society. You hear too much of the good and none of the bad, and the truth is, it is HARD work most of the time. I know that when I was pregnant with DS1 I had visions of rocking him gently in a rocking chair while sipping lattes and going on playdates and having a great time. Pretty much just continuing my old life but adding a baby into the mix. Then he was born and VERY high needs and I was like "WTH did I get myself into?" He ruled my every move for the first 4-6 mos and it was hell. But things did get better, and they will for you too. You are still adjusting to motherhood and fiding the new you - the mommy you. The fact that the birth was traumatic does not help at all. But time will heal and you will get into your mom routine and it WILL get easier. It will be less demanding.

Feel free to vent away here anytime. We have all been there, we've all had horrendous days where we wonder what the heck we've gotten ourselves into. There is no such thing as a perfect mother, so don't beat yourself up. Do the best you can and ask for help if you need help.


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## daniedb (Aug 8, 2004)

I hear you. I really do. The thing about PPD is that it most certainly doesn't invalidate the feelings. It's not like, "Oh...hard time? So sad. Here's a blue pill, a pat on the head and now hush like a good girl and you'll be full of smiles." It doesn't mean that you're not feeling what you are, it really doesn't. What it does it rob you of the ability to process the emotional upheaval in a consistent and concise way. It's like getting stuck in the mud in a truck, versus having the tools to lay down some wood and chains and work the truck out of it. Instead of spinning the wheels of emotions, you can use that energy to problem solve and try new things and that edge of desperation is lost because you are able to accomplish parenting and feel like you're actually doing some good!

Whatever you choose, I truly hope you feel better soon. Mothering is hard.


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## Ofwait (Feb 16, 2008)

I would like to say that coming from a someone who has had PPD, that we aren't trying to negate your feelings at all. You are feeling what you are feeling, and it is very real, and PPD doesn't take that away. I personally was trying to point out that sometimes there are medical reasons as to why we feel certain ways. Hormones can do all kinds of PHYSICAL things to your body, making it much harder to cope with life in general. Throw in a high needs baby, who can sense your distress, and you have a real mess on your hands that you aren't always going to be capable of dealing with. There is nothing wrong with asking for help.
I had very similar feeling after my second DD, a failed VBAC, they didn't even give me a chance, but thats a whol other issue.
I let my self get very bad, I didn't realize just how bad it was till one instance where I was spanking my 20month old and letting the 6 week old scream. Then I just sat and cried and held my girls, and realized that something had to change. For me the meds helped me immensely, and I learned coping methods as well. I wasn't taking care of myself, for the babes, but that backfired to the point where I wasn't taking care of any of us, and something had to give.


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## Turquesa (May 30, 2007)

I was in tears reading through this thread, Mama, and I hope it all gets better. I cannot write anything more eloquent than the previous posters, but know that I'm on your side.


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## bellacymom (Apr 3, 2008)

In my world it was normal and it almost made me go insane. My DD2 was a screamer. She had to either be held by me or rocked in her bouncy seat at 100 bounces per minute. She didn't want anyone else to hold her and nobody wanted to keep her. She is 10 months old now and has been out of that phase for about 3 months and it got better about 5 months ago. Now she is happy and playful and a joy to be around. It will get better!

You are right though. There are bad phases with every age (ex. colic, teething and potty training) and I think every mother should have "This too shall pass" written on every surface in her house.


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## stellimamo (Jan 9, 2006)

Are you getting enough sleep? I know that seems like a reall dumb question but I have a similiar aged baby and boy has it een difficult lately. I think tat the last months of sleep deprevation are getting to me and maybe you too. I get really fustrated when ds won't sleep or even worse goes to sleep but wakes up 20 mins after I fall asleep. There's only so much sleep deprvation one person can take w/ o getting angry and grump.

Hows your diet are you getting enough vitamin B? That can really effect your mood also.


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## weliveintheforest (Sep 3, 2005)

:
I've had days where I felt like that. It's awful, but it will get better.


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## changingseasons (Mar 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
Yes, she did have colic. We finally figured out that it was dairy, so now I'm off of that (which is another stress, because I can't enjoy eating nearly as much, and every once in awhile it is apparent that SOMETHING had dairy in it without me knowing, which makes me feel even more like my efforts aren't enough). She's not crying all the time, she just cries when she's bored, I guess, and tired, and can't fall asleep on her own, so I end up walking her and having to be so CAREFUL, but she STILL starts crying again....

I haven't read through the whole thread, so sorry if I'm repeating things that everyone else has said. I actually just read your first post and immediately wanted to ask you about your diet, and then saw this post. DD started showing signs of food allergies around 2 mo, and her symptoms escalated exponentially from there. I remember many nights when she just wouldn't stop screaming and screaming and screaming, and looking at me like, "WTF lady! Can't you see I need your help here?" And me having no idea how to help her, feeling guilty... like I was never fit to be a mom.









Anyway, long story short- I took dairy out of my diet, things got a little better. Then a little worse. I started taking more out of my diet, and am still doing it 4 months later. I've been on and off elimination diets, and just got ELISA testing for DD and myself, which shows a HUGE list of foods that we're both sensitive to.

Now we're both working on eliminating the 'bad' foods and healing our gut (I have learned a lot about why food sensitivities occur, and a lot had to do with my poor gut health before pregnancy.) We still have a long way to go, but we're getting there. DD is a completely different baby than she was a couple months ago. We still have the occasional day where she's super fussy and I just want to run away, but it's no longer the norm.

So I would urge you to keep looking at your diet if your LO still seems to be colicky. Start a food journal and see if there are any foods that consistently make her fussy. Check out the Allergy forum under Health & Healing. There are a lot of great moms there who can help you work through symptoms and food issues. They have helped me so much.

Also, if you're not already- try to find some kind of parent/baby support group. We go to one at our hospital (it's free). It's really more of a chat session than a support group. But it's nice to talk to other moms with same-age babes, and see that you're not the only one suffering. It's also has saved my sanity just being able to get out of the house, to have some sort of routine for myself each week.

Sorry for rambling... hope any of that info helps.


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## amyleigh33 (Nov 2, 2006)

I read a bunch of the replies but not all (wow there are a lot).

Most of what you said resonates with me, I feel like I could've written it at my lowest of times, and that is hard for me to admit. But, I never wanted to have a baby, ever. I was not a baby person, I did not gush over babies, I didn't want to hold other people's babies... Older kids I was OK with, but didn't even really have a desire to eventually have one of those of my own, either. This little one was an accident (not a mistake!) and even though I started getting pretty psyched about having her once I was pregnant, the sleep deprivation and constant crying the first few weeks (and months), I found myself with a lot of the same feelings you described. I think they might be (especially if they are frequent) slightly out of the range of normal, and perhaps I could've benefitted from meds but that's something I am not totally comfortable experimenting with.

I completely understand that inner battle between wanting to stick to AP principles and raise a decent human being, but being so bloody exhausted that I wish I could just put her down in her crib "like normal people do" and go do something I want to do. Within a few weeks your LO should be able to go without nursing for an hour or two so you can just go out for a coffee and read a book or something while DP or someone else hangs out with the baby. "Throw out the books." Don't think that you can't leave your LO with her dad just cause some MDC mamas don't leave their babies until they're almost two. Everyone is different and has different needs. It sounds like you need some space, so if you can, get it.

I have to say that my DD is almost 1, and I still sometimes feel the way you described, especially if I have been alone in the house with her for too long. She gets bored, I get bored, and sometimes we both end up crying. BUT, it's nothing like those first few months. She laughs, and tries to make us laugh; she gives kisses and says "Hi Dad" when her dad comes home; she has learned how to give low-fives and high-fives... she's much more like a super cool little kid than a screaming, pooping baby every day...

ETA: OK I read many more of the posts and your update and WOW there are some amazing responses to this thread. I am glad I took the time to read through.


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## NettleTea (Aug 16, 2007)

There a book called "Attachment Parenting" by William and Martha Sears. In one section he says, "If you resent it, change it!". I felt a bit liberated when I read that. And, coincidentally, ever since reading that a few months back I've had very few resentful moments anymore. It's like reading that let me know that there is way out if things start to be too much. And just knowing that has helped things to go more smoothly.
That portion of the book was encouraging. Was comforting to read in the midst feeling discouraged.


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## want2bmoms (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
Yes, sleep. It does make a difference in how I feel. And with the ppd, I guess I feel like it invalidates my feelings. Oh, things aren't as bad as you think, it's just hormones. I don't understand how they AREN'T this bad. I feel like I'm being very honest and reasonable, I just get overwhelmed and don't have positive coping mechanisms. I even tried going for a walk with dd, and I HATE being outside, and 2/3 times she CRIED. So even THAT effort wasn't good enough.

And as for leaving her to cry in a safe place... Um, hasn't everyone been putting all this effort into telling everyone that it's abusive to let a baby cry alone because you are essentially telling them that nobody cares about them, so why bother crying anyway? I'm really sorry, but you just can't have it both ways.

RaeAnne
dd (1/08)

ok. They ARE *THAT* bad, your emotions are legitimate even if there are hormones involved. Get it checked out. If there's something that can help you feel better, take it!
and then. You aren't everybody else, you are you and you need to do what is best for you and your baby. If that means putting her in a crib with a clean diaper, well fed and burped, where there's nothing that she could get hurt on and walking out the front door for ten minutes... then do it. it's better than hurting her or shaking her or just blacking out and smacking her (which can happen when you've not slept for a few days and are being constantly drained.)
What matters is that 95% of the time, you are there, loving her and caring for her. Personally, I actually believe that it is an excellent lesson for children of any age that it is vital to take care of yourself. You can give 90% percent of the time, but if you are drained, you must take care of yourself or you can't help anyone. This way they know that you WILL be there for them, but you have to take care of yourself for a minute so you can. If you are consistantly giving a child what they need, they will trust you to return even if it takes you a few minutes. Plus, when they are older they will remember that mommy took time for herself when she needed it and I should too.
SO go take a hot shower, lay her down to read a chapter of a book, or just let yourself have a good cry. You are showing her how to be healthy.
Lastly, go outside







: I know, I am agoraphobic, I hate ... HATE to leave the house. BUT it's good for your body, sunlight is the best way to absorb vitamin D (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D) which has all kinds of effects on both your and your baby's body, so get BOTH of you outside, even if she does scream her little head off, you could even slap on some SPF and lay her on a blankie under a tree, put on your earphones, and let her cry for a few minutes. After every song, pick her up and talk to her softly, pat her, tell her you love her, then if she isn't a little calmer after a few minutes lay her back down and take a break for your brain continue until you are feeling calmer.... Plus sunlight has been shown to help with "mood" and ablility to deal with stress







:







:







: I know, I know, I'm just looking for ideas that could maybe, possibly, help you.

I guess that does sound a little like cio... sorry, I don't actually condone that, but I do condone safety and health. And I feel that if she has to cry to be safe... then it's safer for her to cry.


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## preemiemamarach (Sep 7, 2007)

i often say that if all babes were like my ds, humans would become extinct. he screamed nonstop for the first two months after we got him home from the nicu. i wanted to die; i wanted to run away; i had many days where i wished i'd never gotten pregnant. his scream is so ear-splitting that it could be heard down the hall from the nicu through two closed doors. he had silent reflux and has some other medical issues we're still getting diagnosed. he will be 10 months tomorrow and i can honestly say i enjoy him now.

i personally believe that colic is a meaningless term, and that babies who scream a lot are in some sort of pain. i had to go dairy free as well, and am now on an elimination diet per ds's gastro. it sucks, but not as much as the constant screaming. i do think a lot of nicu babies have ptsd, too.

i would look into reflux. i don't care what anybody says, i'd rather give my kid medicine than let him suffer.

the good thing is that high needs babies really do respond best to ap interactions. if ds is crying and i can't get to him for some reason, he will spin himself up til he vomits. if i'd tried cio techniques with him, i would possibly have ended up hurting myself because it wouldn't work, period. but if i feel myself getting that adrenaline rush pp mentioned, i will put him in his crib and stand on the porch for five minutes. ten, if i feel really at the end of my rope.

hang in there. i hope it helps to know so many of us have truly btdt.


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## cjuniverse (Sep 22, 2005)

Oh mami.
























































:hu g




























::stillh eart:







:

I have a million hugs, right here, for you now.

I could've written this post, almost word for word (I never felt like hurting Ryo physically...I second, third, and 1 billionth the advice to put him down, walk away, and get help when you feel this way), when my son was born. I felt this way (not to scare or discourage you, but in the spirit of total honesty) for pretty much the whole first year of his life. It was agony. It was post-partum psychosis.

You sound like you're there, mami. That's okay. Many, many mothers go through this. You will get through it, I promise! Take it day by day, minute by minute, second by second. Distract yourself with tv, movies, radio, whatever you have to. Take as many breaks as you can, go outside, walk, sing, cry. Find a trusted friend/family member and say everything you're thinking. Get it all out. That can help a lot. It helped me a lot. Sleep whenever your baby sleeps, even if it's just for 5 minutes (I swear things could've been much easier for me if I'd have just heeded this advice). Care for yourself as best you can...shower, shave (if you do), brush your hair, put on clothes you feel good in, brush your teeth, etc. Make sure you are eating enough...especially in the first few weeks, I found that not eating worsened my depression by quite a bit. You may not have much of an appetite, PPS can do that to you, but force yourself to take in as much nutrition as you can. Absolutely drink as much water as you can. Vitamin C helped a bit with me...see if you can find it in tablet form.

Honestly, I absolutely despised parenting for the first year (due to PPS and other factors that may not be relevant to you, I can elaborate if you wish). I think I would've felt similarly even had I not suffered from PPS. As other posters have mentioned, going from doing pretty much only for yourself, having complete freedom of movement, getting as much to sleep/eat as you want...to go from that to being completely bound to a baby can be almost unbearable if you have little to no experience with infants. Like other posters, my son was the first child I'd ever really held. His was the first diaper I'd ever changed. I was completely unprepared for new motherhood. Many women in this culture are, I think. It used to be most people came from large families and were at least somewhat familiar with the goings-on of infancy and childrearing...people used to help their parents raise their siblings. We don't live that way anymore...many adults having children now have had very little/no access to children, and have no way of knowing what to expect when they arrive. It makes an already difficult task much, much harder. Add that to the fact that a lot of people do not have much support after baby comes, extended family and such, and it can add up to mountains of unnecessary stress/difficulty!

And yes, there will always be challenges, no matter how old our children get...but as you find your stride as a parent, learn to be patient, flexible, and to accept what comes...you learn to deal with it. You learn to cope. You learn to thrive. You even learn to love the process, and your child(ren) all the more for it.














I swear, I promise, in all truthfulness...it really does get better. Take it from someone who has been exactly where you are. You are a good mami, your baby loves you, and all will be well. It really will.

Seriously, pm me ANYTIME. Anytime, mami. I know _exactly_ what you're going through. I'm here. Many other mamis have been there, too. You can lean on us if you need to. Don't hesitate!


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## robertandenith (Apr 1, 2008)

I haven't read all the responses but wanted to send you a big







because you deserve it momma! Sorry you are feeling like this, and yes, you don't want to hear about PPD but it looks like you have a major case of sleep deprivation and therefore that leads to PPD. I had it with my first but I believe it is totally normal with your first since you didn't really know what to expect. With my second child it was easier because I knew what was coming and it lasted probably 2 days but yes, it does get easier. I highly recommend some herb teas for that including some chamomiles tea so when you breastfeed you can pass it through your milk to the baby and both can calm down, and probably hubby might need to help more than what he is helping now.

God Bless that mama!


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## readytobedone (Apr 6, 2007)

yeah, i totally get it. i felt like i died when i became a mother. I DIDN'T MATTER AT ALL. it sucked. i have no resolution for you either because i still struggle with this.

i came home from the hospital desperately needing to take care of ME (horrible cesarean birth, long recovery) and instead of being able to do that, i was stuck caring for someone i didn't even know. that is honestly how i felt. i half-wished someone would take her away for 3 months and bring her back when i'd had some time to DEAL, kwim?

i wish i could say it gets easier. in some ways it does. but i won't tell you you'll long for this time again. i don't long for any of the time that has passed since she's born. today was her 1st birthday, and while she was an adorable little baby when she was little, i don't wish for that time back in any way, shape, or form.

i do think i have PPD and PTSD. not giving you any sh!t about that, but i'm saying...i don't think your reaction is wholly normal. i think you should try to see a therapist, maybe think about meds. that's what i am doing FINALLY after struggling for an entire f--ing year.

so my advice is do yourself a favor and start NOW! you'll start feeling like crap about yourself when DC can understand more verbally and you're still fussing and cussing in the middle of the night. trust me on that









i want to be a great mom who loves being a mom, but right now i would just settle for being a decent mom who reasonably enjoys it mostly.

and i'm also a huge feminist and have struggled HUGELY with AP and feminism. i think feminism is great, but it overlooks biology pretty entirely (most brands of it, anyhow). we get pregnant. we bear children. we lactate. there is nothing feminist about that extra burden of responsibility. feminism got that wrong IMO.

unless you want to be a FFer by choice who CIOs just to make a feminist point, you kind of have to make peace with the paradox that little babies don't give a crap about your feminist leanings. and i say that in the nicest way possible--as i said, i have struggled with it a ton since DD was born.

so no, i don't think what you're feeling is normal. neither is what i am feeling. though i do feel like flashes of real insight and observation come out of this psychological space i am in, where i can perceive these gender paradoxes and really sit with the idea that, in an evolutionary sense, i have fulfilled a large part of my function and the reason i feel like i don't matter is because, in some sense, i matter less than i did before i got pregnant.

okay, i am blabbing because it's late and i can't sleep. but i couldn't read this and not post because you sound so much like how i feel on some days. angry and betrayed by the whole process and guilty over those feelings.

i don't know how much therapy and/or meds will help bring this to a manageable point for me, but i aim to find out very soon. i hope you do the same.

huge hugs to you, mama. you're in the thick of it.


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## Collinsky (Jul 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sarah0404* 
Hi RaeAnne, I'm sorry you are feeling like this. I know you said you weren't interested in hearing about postnatal depression, but I'm sending you a link to The Edinburgh Postnatal Depression Scale. Its a quick questionaire that only takes a few minutes to complete. A score above 10 suggests that you might be suffering from depression.

http://www.testandcalc.com/etc/tests/edin.asp










This test saved me. Honestly. And if it's not PPD, then the test will say, "you probably don't have PPD" and you can search for other options. If it is PPD, you can go from there.










I so don't mean to devalue your feelings with the suggestion of PPD. I just know the hell that I was living in... when I refused to even talk to anyone about it, when I refused to consider PPD at all. All the advice anyone had for anyone else was "call your dr and tell them how you're feeling" like that was going to help. I couldn't imagine calling the dr and saying: "Hello, I'm a suck a** mother, everything I do is wrong, I am mad all the time, I feel like I have hornets in my chest"... there is NO medication for being a lousy human being. So what was he going to do for me? Pat me on the head? Commit me? Call CPS and have my kids taken away and given to a better mother?

But when I finally did break down and say: maybe this is PPD... it was a miracle. It was a beginning of a way out. It in no way diminishes what you are feeling to know that it's something that happens so often in this culture that it has a name. It's not saying, oh, sweetie, it's just your hormones. It's saying: "Oh, you are in hell. It's not your fault. It doesn't have to be like this."

I also had a high needs baby (not the one I had PPD with, thank GOD or I would have lost my freaking mind completely) who cried until 7 AM every night for 4 months. My husband would come home from work (he's night shift) and find me sitting there in a house that looked like a war zone, holding a baby, shell-shocked. So hard.

So a combination of possible PPD, HN baby, AND a traumatic birth...dear God. You are a warrior. A goddess.

Billions of blessings to you. If it's not PPD, then rest assured that things will get better. The one thing that is certain with a young baby is that things change. It might seem like it's going to be forever, but it's not. You can make it.


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## Kat_shoshin (Feb 16, 2007)

Hi RaeAnne,

My child cried no matter what I did. For 4 - 5 hours a night. He also prefered the pacifier to my boob for sleeping. I found it really hard. I sat alone in the dark in my living room - for days. for the first few months my DH stayed at work until 10pm some nights.

He is now 13 months old and here is what I have kinda figured out.

I figured out that he couldn't boob asleep because there was still milk coming out. So he liked that there wasn't any coming out of the pacifier.

I posted on here for advice and someone suggested that maybe he was working through some things from his birth - (He was also a NICU baby that I didn't get to hold for a couple of days) and needed to cry and needed me to accept that. It sounded flakey, but what did I have to loose right?

So I sat with him (like I did every night holding him crying) and I told him it was okay that he needed to cry. I told him that I was still sad and mad from his birth too and that I needed to cry about it a bit too. I told him that it was okay to cry. I was very calm when I said this, and accepting. He cried a bit longer and then sorta relaxed and slept. I don't know if it was just the change in my posture - but it worked that first time, and a few other times of desperation for me and I felt it really helped.

Good luck, and remember that we all think we suck at this from time to time.


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## colobus237 (Feb 2, 2004)

On normal vs not normal:
To borrow an analogy- it's normal to get a pebble in your shoe if you're walking on a gravel road, but it's not normal to leave it in there and let it hurt you. If you have a traumatic birth and a very high-needs baby and sleep deprivation along with the stress of new parenthood, it's normal to get depressed - but it doesn't mean you don't need serious help.


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## CanidFL (Jul 30, 2007)

I haven't read all the responses but big big





















to you mama. I don't know what it's like to feel that way about your baby but I have had severe depression before and attempted suicide (which of course was a cry for help in hindsight). I know what it feels like to be at the lowest of low. I got help and was in therapy for 2 years. I am now happy and made it through the dark time. I'm telling you this because what you are feeling is real. It does not matter if it's PPD or hormones or other things. It's real and it's scary and it's frustrating and it's awful. I feel you and we are all here for you. I know it's cliché but things will get better. You may need to reach out to get help to make them better&#8230;.but they will get better. Those first few months are rough.

We are here for you mama.


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## Lookingup (Feb 25, 2006)

I haven't read most of the other responses... I hope they were loving and gentle. All I can say is this: parenting can be really, really hard. I had moments with my first (also a colic baby who still doesn't sleep!) where I felt like you do. It can be total insanity, like you're don't know which way is up, and why you did this to yourself.

I don't know whether or not you have PPD, but you do need help and support. I joined a new mom's group run by a therapist that was wonderful. I started taking help from whomever would offer it. (In the beginning, I felt like I could subject no one else to that screaming baby. But no one else is going to be overwhelmed. They're not with the baby 24/7 like you.)

And it sounds like your baby -- like mine -- might have food sensitivities, and definitely has a highly wired nervous system. I'd suggest an omega supplement for the latter. One for you too would be helpful! And trying cutting dairy out of your diet. That's often a culprit.

It *does* get better. Really. I never thought I'd have another baby after Thomas, but here I am with two. Those first 6 months are so hard. Again, it's going to get better. But ask for help. And big hugs to you.


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## hippiemum21580 (Jul 14, 2007)

I did not read any of the other responses. I just wanted to say two things here. First of all, I have been through PPD 3 times around. Each case was a tad less severe than teh one before, I had the toughest time after my first son was born.The reason was in my ignorant mind at teh time I thought only BAD moms who wanted to hurt thier babies got PPD! I understood nothing of the illness and therefore lived in denial and refused meds or anything, though everyone around me could see I needed help.
Second, being a mom of an infant is mainly a thankless job. babies are by nature for survival needs very selfish! I am a mother of four and you think I would have this ALL figured out by now but my 4th baby went through a spell with colic where he literally cried from 5 at night till around midnight every single night for over a month. I would have spurts of peace and patience within myself but there was ALOT of me sitting in a chair sobbing right along with my baby, thinking I was doing it all wrong and resenting my son. I ranted at him even, telling him how LUCKY he was to have a mama so devoted and WHYWHYWHY would he not just be HAPPY and stop crying???? It doesnt matter, IMO, wether you have one child or ten....there will always be struggles and doubts. And any mother who says she went through the entire pregnancy,labor,birth and mothering eras with no doubt,fear,frustration and struggle is full of SH!T. Not to say as mothers we don't LOVE our children even in the midst of feeling this way.....just that to face the concept of raising a person to grow into a man or woman is a very daunting, overwhelming awesome task! ESPECIALLY when we ourselves are only human and still trying to carve our own path through life!
So, FWIW, I have been through all that you described and it DOES remind me of my PPD days but I just wanted to tell you to that I understand. Especially with a high needs baby! (I have had two of those! One who refused to be put down for his whole first year!) Hugs to you mama and I do hope you have some support!


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## isabel'smommy (Jan 9, 2008)

I am SO, SO glad that there is a post about this. As a new mom, I could have written your post down to a tee. I think it is very brave of you to be so honest about your feelings. I have been hesitant to express my feeling at times b/c I was worried that I was this abnormal person and such a bad mama for not loving my baby from the minute she was born. I did go to counselling and one of the most helpful things (at least for me) was to realize that other mamas feel the same way and I was NOT a monster or a selfish person for resenting the way my life had changed. Things are better for me now- over the past month, I feel like her crying has gotten better and she actually looks at me and knows who I am. However- it still is thankless and I still have times where I feel the way you do: why can't she understand that I have devoted my whole life to her and STOP crying!?!?!

A couple things:
1. You are not a bad mama- I question myself everyday and I realize that the best you can do is your best! And it sounds like you are doing a wonderful job...

2. Normal vs. abnormal? I think the answer to that is not for others to judge. For me, I wanted to change or at least try to feel better about the situation, so I looked for help. It sounds like you need help in one form or another, but I don't think it is a question of normal vs abnormal.

3. I'm sure others have offered, but if you ever need to PM just to vent or need a empathetic mama, please feel free.

Good luck and many hugs to you....


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## blueridgewoman (Nov 19, 2001)

This sounds like me after my daughter was born. It took a long time for me to bond with her due to problems conceiving, a difficult pregnancy, a really hard birth, and more hospitalizations for me after she was born.

It gets better. I promise you'll fall in love with your baby. And I promise the sleep will get better and everything will. But you probably need to get some help to make that happen. I know I did. It still isn't great, but its so much better.


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## FancyD (Apr 22, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Collinsky* 

But when I finally did break down and say: maybe this is PPD... it was a miracle. It was a beginning of a way out.

This was very true for me.


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## littlecindy (Feb 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JTA Mom* 
You have a very high needs baby. Everyone here who has never had one CANNOT know what you are going through. At all.

Why am I telling you this? Because I want you to know that you are not alone. I don't think many of the people who tell you this isn't "normal" know what they are talking about. You are recuperating from the birth, both physically, mentally & emotionally. You are drained. Yet you are suffering from sleep-deprivation and a constantly crying baby. Your adrenals may also be shot. Mine were already crap during pregnancy. Shot adrenals can be contributing to the lack of coping too. I am still dealing with them, since it takes a lot of time to fix.

Having a high needs, colicy, and traumatized baby is *NOT* the norm. Therefore everyone telling you that what your feeling is not normal is *WRONG*. *Only if you've been there before do you know what it is like*.

I will say that _*4 months is still too young for the "they get better as they get older" comment.*_ I started to really see changes around 6 months, and now that ds is almost 9 months, it is SOOOOO much better. Your daughter is probably still in her colic phase. It'll take a while to phase out. It's not always instantaneous.

Get Dr. Sear's Parenting the High needs & fussy baby book. Or look here http://www.askdrsears.com/html/5/t050100.asp

It helped a lot. Also, one feature of high needs babies are that they usually develop mentally a lot faster than physically. Once they realize that everyone can sit/move/run and pick up stuff, they want to do that too. And it pisses them off that they can't. They know what they want and don't give up easily, if at all.

Your dd will not stop crying if you let her CIO. That's the difference between high needs babies and "normal" babies. They won't give up. So don't feel like CIO is an alternative. It would lead to the same situation, but further traumatize you & your little one.

just want to second ALL of this...that book helped me SOOOOO much. please reread this woman's post!


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## gardenmommy (Nov 23, 2001)

My first child was very high-needs. It was awful. It's a good thing things got easier, because he would have been an only child otherwise. His birth was hard, traumatic seems a bit strong, but very much not what I had planned. I think he, too, was dealing with the emotions of that. He was easily overstimulated, hated getting in and out of the car, hated bright lights and loud noises, hated anyone but me holding him. He had to nurse every time he got upset, his cry was incredibly loud and piercing, just awful. CIO was not possible, he would just scream until he vomited. I think we started to enjoy life a little more once he made it past 6 months. He is still very sensitive almost 10 years later, but is such a joy to be around.

I wanted to third the books by Dr. Sears on parenting the high-needs baby, and his fussy baby book. They really helped me understand and accept my baby.

You are doing a great job mama! Don't be so hard on yourself. You can do everything right and STILL your baby will cry. That is a fact of life. Just know that you are doing your best. You will make it through this tough time one minute at a time. Tie a knot in your rope and hang on. Don't let go.


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## thatblondegirl (Jan 16, 2008)

i was SOOOO you! my son is now 13mths old, and when he's whining or crying incessantly, it makes me crazy. he is super high needs and cannot be alone! when he was younger, i thought for sure that i was a horrible mohter and that i had made a huge mistake in having him. i still am worried about having another as i am not sure if i have the patience to deal with 2 whining, crying kids. i love my son, and i do know that i am a good mom. but when i can't get him to stop crying, i envision hurting him. i wouldn't do it! but i *want* to sometimes. i have gotten rough with him on occasion. i will set him down on the floor a little rougher than normal. i have not HURT him, but i have been rougher than i should be i guess. up until he was 12mths, i didn't get a full nites sleep since i was 6mths prego. i was HORRIBLE. i hated who i'd become. i was a miserable person to be around. NOW, he is MUCH better, but still *annoying*. i LOVE my son to death, but he can be super irritating. i went to the doc because i thought that i had PPD. i did not. i was *just* exhausted. you aren't a bad mom or a bad person. you're exhausted and frustrated. and i'm sorry, but 1 good nap isn't going to help. i'm being honest here. i'm still short tempered and cranky sometimes and my ds is sleeping 9 hours straight a night. i'm a person with a low tolerance for annoyances.

so i guess what i'm saying to you is that you ARE normal. i don't think you necessarily have PPD. i love how honest you are being about your issues. i have only one person in my life that i was able to vent to and i knew that she wouldn't judge me. and it amazed me when she would say the same things that i was feeling. so please understand that you are not alone. many new parents go thru this. and i hear - this too shall pass! lol i hated hearing that. but i'm counting on it being true!


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## xelakann (Jul 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ccohenou* 
On normal vs not normal:
To borrow an analogy- it's normal to get a pebble in your shoe if you're walking on a gravel road, but it's not normal to leave it in there and let it hurt you. If you have a traumatic birth and a very high-needs baby and sleep deprivation along with the stress of new parenthood, it's normal to get depressed - but it doesn't mean you don't need serious help.

This helps me... I too have a fussy one... I struggle with whether or not I have ppd.

Raeann, by posting you are helping me come to terms with a lot of what I have been feeling. I wouldn't have had the guts to write your OP, though I share in some of what you describe.

I am going to make a counseling appt today... for me that is the path I need to take to feel better... I hope you find yours


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## Dena (May 29, 2006)

I know you said you didn't want to hear about ppd, but please bear with me. For starters, ppd IS real, as others have said. It is a real explanation for your feelings. It can be both that you are having a difficult time as a mom AND you have ppd. It may get better as your baby gets older, it may not - or maybe it won't without some help.

In scanning the posts, and I may have missed it, but a point I didn't see made that made a huge difference for me is this: PPD is NOT like regular depression. At least it wasn't for me. I had been situationally depressed before in my life, and have been again since the loss of one of my twins. But after my first daughter was born I had PPD and PTSD. She too was in the NICU, and she was/is a high needs child. In fact, I recently commented to my dh that my new dd is so different, because it feels like I can actually satisfy her. With dd1, nothing I ever do seems to be enough, even still. Yes, it has gotten better, because at least now she can tell me what is upsetting her, and it gives me perspective when it is just that, maybe, the cat jumped off the couch and not anything I did/could have done/had any control over. Also, I have come to realize that when at least my top few needs get met, I am a better mother, and both my girls are subsequently happier.

Anyway, back to the original message, with depression, I am sad, but with ppd/ptsd, it was a constant rage, hating life, feeling inadequate as a mom and as a person, etc. - in short, pretty much everything you have described. I thought I was the worst mother ever because suddenly I could understand why moms hit their babies. I didn't get that it wasn't me. Finally, I saw Brooke Shields on Oprah describing ppd. I called my therapist. After finally getting up the nerve to 'fess up to her that sometimes I wanted to hurt my baby and how horrible a mom I was, she said, "Dena, you have to understand, that is not you, it is chemicals and hormones." That was a huge weight off my shoulders.

I don't think that ppd invalidates your feelings as a person, but I do think it can explain them. The bottom line is that the human body and mind can only take so much. When we haVe major life changes, like becoming a mom, coupled with major trauma, a sick child, and then a high needs baby, it can just be too much for our brains, and the chemicals go all out of whack. It is just like when we are too stressed and get a cold or the flu, it just happens in the brain instead of the body. Medication, at least for me, doesn't mask the feelings, but it does help the synapses fire well enough that I can understand what is going on better, what needs to change, and I can enjoy life again.

Another thing that helps me a lot is my craniosacral person/energy healer. I never fail to feel better after seeing her, and she worked wonders with my ptsd after nothing else helped.








mama. I am so so sorry that your life is like this right now. I have been there. Honestly, more than once I considered giving my baby up for adoption, because I figured I was just not cut out to do this. I do understand, and I do hope things get better for you.


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## Liquesce (Nov 4, 2006)

Another "haven't read all the responses" post, but ... to me it honestly sounds mostly like you're just not getting the level of support you need. I know you say your husband does more than his share, and that's wonderful, but at the same time we all have different tolerance levels, the fact is that most of the burdens of a young baby fall on mom, and mom just might not be up to that level of constant need for attention and patience.

It was really a moment of revelation for me, personally, when it dawned on me that if someone is taking my son so that I can get a two hour nap or whatever, nice though that is it does not mean that anyone should expect me to be a ray of sunshine when that two hours is the longest stretch of sleep I get, kwim? Sometimes when people are helping us we get caught up in the sense that we should be grateful and satisfied with that, and miss that the help given hasn't really fixed the problem.

I would suggest (a) bringing in a relative or anyone who you reasonably trust who can come and stay with you for at least a couple of weeks, even if their parenting philosophy isn't 100% in agreement with yours, to take the baby when you just need to get away, (b) hire a babysitter when you can, and/or (c) consider daycare -- it doesn't have to be whole days or every day; just whatever gets you the regular break that you need.

I know those are maybe not the most "attached" suggestions, but the reality is that there are those among us who really just can not take being around a baby all the time. Being a happy mother is better than being a purist fulltime one.


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## sarahbay (Oct 30, 2003)

I'm another one who thinks that posters telling you that you have PPD and need help, just have not even come close to realizing that this is normal for a mother of a colicky infant.

You are NORMAL!!!!

Your baby is not. That's not to say that she is not healthy and will be normal someday, but expect everyone to think you are nuts for a while unless they have experienced a newborn with colic themselves.

Our 4th baby has Severe Colic. He surpasses babies that are fussy, or the "high needs baby" by a long shot.

And it's not our parenting. I AP parent just like I did with my other 3, 2 of which were angels. People would say to me "does your baby EVER cry?" with my 2 other boys ....LOL!! I co-sleep, nurse on demand, swaddle, sling, hold, coo, rock, play with, take on walks, eat organic, etc.

This kid cried the minute he left the womb and nothing has much changed except he got louder, is cute sometimes, and his pooping habits changed a bit! LOL!

Seriously it's hard to bond with the little guy because as soon as he decides to be happy and cute, you are still in shell shock from being screamed at for hours. And when you do start to like him again you know that it's only going to be a matter of minutes until he cries again.

He refuses to nurse unless the atmosphere is absolutely perfect. So that means that even at 7 mo I can't leave the house for longer than 2 hrs max because he won't even nurse in the car.

He used to only nurse while asleep, and was not gaining very well. We got his frenulum clipped at 4 mo, but it takes so long for them to relearn to nurse properly, that he only started to get better at latching on at about 6 mo. He still has a weak latch compared to my other kids. His tongue is very short too.

But the frenulum thing was only Part of the problem. His real problem is just that he is a Spaz.

His brain has developed too fast for his little body, and he hates it!

He can actually play catch with my 4 year old. And I don't mean he accidentally throws the ball in his direction 1 out of 5 times. He actually can throw the ball back to my 4 yr old over and over and over. He'll sit and do that with him for a hours straight.

He's been playing peek a boo since he was 4 mo old. My DH played peek a boo with him since almost birth with a blanket covering the baby's face. So my son figured out how to cover up his own face and take off the blanket, and recover it over and over. If he's lying on the bed and there is a washcloth or anything nearby, he will try to play peek a boo by himself for us allll the time! It's amazing really.

I really wish he could sit up on his own totally, or crawl or something. It would make it a lot easier I think. He just wants so bad to be a busy little guy all the time. He loves new surroundings and new people, as long as they don't hold him, and going on walks etc. And of course he acts like a little angel to new people so they all think I'm nuts, lol.

My DH has been the best thing ever through all this. He's so so so supportive and wonderful. I really don't know what I would have done without him, I don't even want to imagine.

It does get easier, but it may take a really long time. I do remember from my other kids that around 2, or 2 1/2 life gets so much easier for you.

If this was our first baby though there is no way I'd ever ever ever have a second baby.

Cutting ALL Dairy out did help A LOT though I do have to say.

And when I mean all dairy, it has to be all dairy. And they sure don't make it easy to do these days either. And going to a friend's or relatives house for dinner, or out to eat is a joke! lol There is casein in almost everything, whey in everything, and if something says non-dairy it does NOT mean dairy-free. Ugh! Even lunchmeat has dairy in it unless it's the expensive Boar's head lunchmeat.

Eventually you can find a wide enough supply of good for you, things you actually like eating in order to do this long-term. Even restaurants you can find that will be nice enough to read you the ingredients of everything. We are able to go out to eat chinese without any problems, which is a LIFESAVER!!!! and Although Jimmy John's Hellman's Mayonase has cream in it that is not listed(only says "natural ingredients") their bread has no dairy in it! Yay! And our favorite little mom and pop hamburger place has no dairy in their buns, hooray! So we found a few places to go.

I eat that Boar's head lunchmeat for lunch on bread that has no whey, with mayo that has no dairy. And we eat a lot of meat and potato or meat and rice dinners. And for breakfast I still LOVE cereal so I've gotten accustomed to vanilla Almond milk instead of milk. And for snacks I love Organic Original Newman's Oreo type cookies(no dairy!!), hummus and pita, nuts and dried fruits, and crackers with peanut butter mmmm







:

good luck mama!


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## deditus (Feb 22, 2006)

Ohhh, mama, I still feel this way and my dd is 22 mo. I think I "know" you from a local email list. PM me if you need help, I will come over. No judgement here.


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## crunchymccrunch (Sep 2, 2007)

I just want to give you a hug and say I think babies really do kinda suck.

For one thing, they look like alien chickens.

For another thing, since they have no free will and are utterly dependent, it's hard to say "She loves me back!" with genuine confidence.

And also, yes, motherhood absolutely at times demeaning, demanding and demoralizing.

Frankly, I found the infant chapter of motherhood to be no fun at all. It occurred to me that all those cute clothes are for US, to get us psyched up about taking care of the little screamy buggers.

But no - it doesn't get "worse" when they grow up. It's challenging in different ways, but it's a LOT more fun. A LOT! Truly!

Hang in there, you can do this. You are a smart, literate woman - the world needs mothers like you! Certainly your daughter needs you, even though it may not feel like it.

My kids are beckoning, can't quite finish my thoughts.....


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## justmama (Dec 24, 2002)

to the OP,









i hate the baby stage too

mine is the same age as yours and she's just starting to find her thumb thankfully after months of trying to push the pacifier on her while she screamed at the boob. can't ever put her down. she won't sleep by herself. if she does, her sisters wake her up. don't know what I was thinking having #3.


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## RaeAnne (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *crunchymccrunch* 
I just want to give you a hug and say I think babies really do kinda suck.

For one thing, they look like alien chickens.

For another thing, since they have no free will and are utterly dependent, it's hard to say "She loves me back!" with genuine confidence.

And also, yes, motherhood absolutely at times demeaning, demanding and demoralizing.

Frankly, I found the infant chapter of motherhood to be no fun at all. It occurred to me that all those cute clothes are for US, to get us psyched up about taking care of the little screamy buggers.











Except for the alien chicken part. Mine has always been cute. Fat round cheeks, pointy chin (







), big eyes. But alien chickens are nice too.









Why the h*ll does it take a break down for mamas to be honest with each other? I get that not everyone feels this way, and that's fine. But why are only certain thoughts and feelings acceptable if they're relatively common?? It's bullsh*t, I'm sorry.

I feel like I'm supposed to do an update or something. I'm not getting counseling, and I'm not getting meds. But I am going to get more sleep, and get out of the house more. I have no friends that I get together with, no mom friends my age at ALL, and this is part of my problem. I'm also giving myself permission to lie with her in bed if she keeps crying because she's tired, rather than continue walking her and getting frustrated, because it's easier to tune out the crying while at least having her be cuddled. Seriously, I think this will help one of the most stressful situations for me.

I really appreciate all this support. F*ck trying to keep up appearances.

RaeAnne
dd (1/08)


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## Collinsky (Jul 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 









Except for the alien chicken part. Mine has always been cute. Fat round cheeks, pointy chin (







), big eyes. But alien chickens are nice too.









Why the h*ll does it take a break down for mamas to be honest with each other? I get that not everyone feels this way, and that's fine. But why are only certain thoughts and feelings acceptable if they're relatively common?? It's bullsh*t, I'm sorry.

I feel like I'm supposed to do an update or something. I'm not getting counseling, and I'm not getting meds. But I am going to get more sleep, and get out of the house more. I have no friends that I get together with, no mom friends my age at ALL, and this is part of my problem. I'm also giving myself permission to lie with her in bed if she keeps crying because she's tired, rather than continue walking her and getting frustrated, because it's easier to tune out the crying while at least having her be cuddled. Seriously, I think this will help one of the most stressful situations for me.

I really appreciate all this support. F*ck trying to keep up appearances.

RaeAnne
dd (1/08)


Don't feel like anyone is saying that counseling or meds are something you have to do. You do what YOU need to do to feel joyful and peaceful. Our society does things all wrong. It really does. Starting off mothering isn't supposed to be like it is. But that doesn't change that it is, and there's no reason at all to pretend like it's all roses and chocolate because it's not.

And, I confess I stopped pacing the floor with a screaming baby a long time ago. With my colicky son, I just boycotted it. I couldn't do it anymore. I held him (or had him in the sling/wrap) and just let him cry. I laid with him, with him screaming his head off beside me. I offered the breast periodically, made sure he wasn't ill or in pain or poopy or too hot/cold... and then I just held him and let him cry.

One of the greatest lies of mothering is that it's our job to *stop* the crying. It's not. It's our job to make sure they are nurtured and nourished, and to be there for them in whatever they need. And sometimes, the little buggers need to cry. It's one of the body's ways of releasing stress hormones, and it is physically beneficial sometimes for a baby to cry in a supported, secure environment. (That's not the same as CIO, where a baby is left to cry without that support, when his need is for closeness/whatever. But I have said, OMG I can't do this right now! and walked out of the room to breathe for a second, maybe pour myself some tea, and then gone back in when the agida passed a bit.

Basically, I just accepted that my son for whatever reason, needed to cry. And I'd cycle through the things I could do, to make sure it wasn't another need, and then I'd just be there with him through it. Releasing the idea that he needed to stop crying, and that it was my job to make that happen - it made all the difference.

I hope you get more sleep, that's so vital and so HARD to do, and find lots of little ways to be the great mom you are while meeting your own needs.


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## BMG580 (Jun 19, 2007)

I just wanted to chime in here. My DD was very high needs, to the point that there were times that I had to lay her in her crib and go outside for five minutes just so I wouldn't lose it. Was she crying? Yes. Did she survive it? Yes.

I was so judgmental about parenting choices before I had her and now I know that all the ideal parenting strategies just aren't always real-world applicable. I was so incredibly tired, my nerves were shot, she didn't want to sleep very much and she nursed around the clock. The vision of what I had in mind during my pregnancy (which I also hated!) of what my new baby was going to be like and what I got were so far and away different that I think that was part of my stumbling block of realizing THIS was the baby I had not the baby I dreamed of and I'd better just make the most of it. I have said over and over again to friends and family that I am completely perplexed by the ooohing and ahhhing over infants. I much preferred her 12 months +. Don't get me wrong, I always loved her intensely, it was just so hard day to day. And I definitely did not have PPD. She is now almost 3 and such a joy. All the qualities that made her a demanding infant make her an incredibly fun and lively toddler. We have such a great time together, she is vibrant and intense and very dramatic!

I got pregnant with my son the very first time we tried. I hadn't even adjusted to the idea of trying and I was pregnant. Pregnant and petrified. I almost ignored being pregnant most of the way through, I mean I knew I was but I just refused to process the fact that I was indeed having another baby because I just wasn't sure how I was going to survive not sleeping again for another year and a half, etc. Well, out he came and he is so incredibly different from her, so laid back, snuggly and *quiet*. I still am in shock. So, don't assume your next (if you have another) will be the same. I am actually enjoying his infancy and I really appreciate what a gift it is this time around, how short it is.

Hang in there, I hope she settles down for you soon. Oh, my DD did have dairy allergy and that made the first couple months horrifying until I figured it out. I think the major difference that I read in your OP is that you seem almost angry, I don't think I was ever actually angry with my DD, just at my wit's end and exhausted which made me feel crazy. I do agree with all the PP's that have suggested that it is worth looking into about PPD. If nothing else, you can cross something off the list of possible issues to be resolved, right?


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## kristen1978 (Dec 27, 2006)

First, hugs and THANK YOU for your honesty. I could have written your post a few weeks ago. (IT DOES GET BETTER!)

There have been many many great responses, and I hope that they truly are bringing you comfort and peace. I have another thought to share that I don't think anyone has mentioned, something that has helped me recently as I've dealt with similar feelings.

Women are not MEANT to do this alone. We are not meant to have such a difficult job and yet be so socially isolated and devalued. Even under the best of circumstances (happy baby, supportive partner, friends) a woman in our culture is still living in a reality that other mothers in the world do not.

I've done quite a bit of traveling and have noticed some major cultural differences in motherhood and what it entails. Of course mothering is hard everywhere, but with extended family and close-knit communities, the burden is usually shared in other parts of the world -- babies are passed around and nursed by others, children are entertained and watched over. Women have more space, more freedom, more room to breathe. Unlike here where we are all supposed to be supermom and love every minute of it.

*Sigh*

So, my point, for what it's worth, is that there isn't anything wrong with you, or with any of us for that matter. We are doing our best in a far from ideal situation. We are told that we should have children, that we should devote all of our time and energy to them, and that we should love being mothers, but that we have to do it alone. We romanticize motherhood and then don't support mothers.

The answer? Fill in the gaps as best as you can with family and friends. Create a net of support so that you don't feel so overwhelmed. Realizing that it is not ME that is inadequate, that it's society, has really helped to motivate ME to reach out and connect with others. We need each other so badly!


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## Dena (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kristen1978* 
Women are not MEANT to do this alone. We are not meant to have such a difficult job and yet be so socially isolated and devalued. Even under the best of circumstances (happy baby, supportive partner, friends) a woman in our culture is still living in a reality that other mothers in the world do not.

This is an excellent point.


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## Collinsky (Jul 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kristen1978* 
Women are not MEANT to do this alone. We are not meant to have such a difficult job and yet be so socially isolated and devalued. Even under the best of circumstances (happy baby, supportive partner, friends) a woman in our culture is still living in a reality that other mothers in the world do not.

I can't agree more. The fact that we survive it, and come out on the other side... well, that's because we're amazing.

And to add to the socially isolated part... it's not even necessarily always a physical isolation. You can sit in a group of mothers, and if everyone is putting on a "I'm June Cleaver meets Martha Stewart meets Pollyanna, all the time, and I love it all!" front... then everyone is isolated, in a crowd. It's a disservice to everyone. Without honesty about the wonderful parts AND the messy, lonely, frustrating parts - we're all _isolated._


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## JTA Mom (Feb 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kristen1978* 
Women are not MEANT to do this alone. We are not meant to have such a difficult job and yet be so socially isolated and devalued. Even under the best of circumstances (happy baby, supportive partner, friends) a woman in our culture is still living in a reality that other mothers in the world do not.

Thank, you thank you, thank you! Not to mention that in almost all traditional societies pregnant women are given much more leeway and not expected to keep going 100% full-tilt ahead until the day they give birth. Oh, and don't even get me started on the post-partum period. Sooo many cultures give women the first 40 days (or somewhere around there) to recuperate from the birth where they are expected to stay in bed with the baby while other women come & visit, cook, clean and take care of the older siblings. Here in the west we expect pregnant women and women with babies to not have any additional needs or requirements. If I had a dollar each time someone told me "well, I didn't have x (x being husband helping, outsourcing laundry, etc) when I had babies, and I survived so you are spoiled" I'd be rich. Filthy rich.

Why is there this martyr need in Western culture, especially when it comes to motherhood? Can't we all admit that this is fr#$kin hard and stop the b.s?

Ok, vent over. lol I think I just got one too many "you're spoiled because at least your husband changes diapers" lectures. lol

Ami


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kristen1978* 
First, hugs and THANK YOU for your honesty. I could have written your post a few weeks ago. (IT DOES GET BETTER!)

There have been many many great responses, and I hope that they truly are bringing you comfort and peace. I have another thought to share that I don't think anyone has mentioned, something that has helped me recently as I've dealt with similar feelings.

Women are not MEANT to do this alone. We are not meant to have such a difficult job and yet be so socially isolated and devalued. Even under the best of circumstances (happy baby, supportive partner, friends) a woman in our culture is still living in a reality that other mothers in the world do not.

I've done quite a bit of traveling and have noticed some major cultural differences in motherhood and what it entails. Of course mothering is hard everywhere, but with extended family and close-knit communities, the burden is usually shared in other parts of the world -- babies are passed around and nursed by others, children are entertained and watched over. Women have more space, more freedom, more room to breathe. Unlike here where we are all supposed to be supermom and love every minute of it.

*Sigh*

So, my point, for what it's worth, is that there isn't anything wrong with you, or with any of us for that matter. We are doing our best in a far from ideal situation. We are told that we should have children, that we should devote all of our time and energy to them, and that we should love being mothers, but that we have to do it alone. We romanticize motherhood and then don't support mothers.

The answer? Fill in the gaps as best as you can with family and friends. Create a net of support so that you don't feel so overwhelmed. Realizing that it is not ME that is inadequate, that it's society, has really helped to motivate ME to reach out and connect with others. We need each other so badly!

So well said!







And I think your post touches on what has made me keep coming back to this thread which is this ideal that if you aren't farting sunshine and roses as a mom then you must have PPD and you need meds.

I get that PPD is real and we should all evaluate ourselves for that potential, but the reality is you can have a bad relationship with your spouse and no one instantly blames depression. But have a difficult time with you baby, fail to achieve the perfect June Cleaver moment and it _has_ to be PPD. And if we just take a pill it will no longer matter that our baby keeps us up all night.

I think there are interim steps and strategies here before we get to PPD and I think that's what the OP was going for.

As I posted earlier I can identify with the OP's sentiments. My DD was a great newborn, but now she is very demanding and high needs and I don't get enough sleep for that! And I have absolutely no material help outside of my husband. No relatives nearby, it's just the three of us. I'm working on building up a network for myself, but it's going to take time.

I've noticed that babies expand to take up all available space in your life and managing that kind of never ending neediness can be a challenge.

To the OP:

1. Am I right in that you had a hard birth with a NICU stay? Do you think perhaps you need to carve out some space to process this experience? How could you go about it? A sitter for some you time? A therapist to hash out your emotions?

The first three months, I went through a bit of an identity crisis, I had no idea who I was anymore or what my values were. My DD put everything up for question and analysis. It was exhausting and I also butted right up against the "Mystique of Motherhood" which is this idea that 'my baby completes me'. In reality, sometimes I just wanted to put her down and take a shower AP and her needs be damned.

I had to renegotiate all my personal boundaries and completely change my thinking about what motherhood meant for me vs. what I thought it would be before I had DD. Seven months in and I am still doing this, it's an ongoing process.

2.It sounds like you had really high expectations and reality is not meeting them. This sucks, I know and creates pretty significant cognitive dissonance. You need to find a way to process that and let go of what should be and accept what is. If you've ever studied Buddhism now is the time to put in place the idea that things just are and avoid value judgments.

I have come to believe that motherhood is a personal definition. We must all find our own path because we are all unique as parents with unique children. It's hard to realize there aren't too many crutches you can lean on to limp along, you've got to do all the hard work yourself.

Also, don't have expectations. It's hard and I keep making this mistake, but the less I expect, the better off I am and the better I take things as they come instead of fighting against some arbitrary goal I made for myself as a mother.

3.Do anything and everything to make things easier for you. If you have to hire a sitter, hire a sitter. If you need a maid, get a maid. If you need a therapist just so that someone hears you out, go for it. Or start a journal and don't hold back. Now is not the time to skimp on your needs because, if momma ain't happy, no one is. Figure out what would make motherhood manageable for you right now and do it.

Don't hide from your emotions because you think you shouldn't have them. Purge them, face them, and things will start to make sense emotionally in my experience.

It is OK to find being a mother hard. It's okay to not love every minute. It's okay to feel letdown. Don't deny what feels true to you, but then take it and build on it, build toward a motherhood that fits you and that you can enjoy.

HTH and was more of what you were looking for with your original post.










V


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## Kothi (Feb 13, 2007)

I couldn't help feeling like getting on a plane right away and just being there for a week to give you a hug, cook up a nice pot of chili for you, offer a massage and put you to bed and give you a break. All I can give you are some virtual hugs and my most earnest hope that things will improve soon, and a few of my thoughts.

I didn't have the time to read all pp's so ignore if it's all been said before. You do sound very angry, on top of (as a result of) being distressed etc. The times I've been most angry in the infancy phase has been while I've been incredibly sleep deprived, which it sounds like you definitely are. My first baby didn't latch for over 2 weeks, and I had to pump, try to get him to latch, feed him a bottle and do it all over again in 2 hr intervals. I was falling apart, getting 20 mins sleep at a time like that, and even considered not nursing due that period- fortunately, I had great doulas who kept me going. And that was just 2 weeks - I can't imagine going on and on for months like that. Even when I finally got to sleep for 3 hrs ish at a stretch, which at that time was a godsend, it was still a milder form of torture those first 6 mos or so. I was often snappish, miserable and practically delirious. Fortunately, the rest of infancy went fairly well for me (toddlerhood is not so fun, but at least the sleep issue was not so bad).

Remember, sleep is a basic need. People do become psychotic because of prolonged lack of sleep- irritability is the most common result of initial sleep deprivation, and I'm sure it's not off base to conclude that periodic rage can come from extreme deprivation. I don't believe attachment parenting is compatible with extreme deprivation of very basic needs of the parent (nutrition, health care, sleep, safe environment) - in fact, they are essential to competent parenting. While we certainly don't want to let a baby cry for a prolonged period of time, and I truly believe your little one needs YOU (despite her paci preference over the boob), she doesn't necessarily need to have you there 24/7/365. I read in a (non-natural parenting) infant tips book, of a woman who would take "sleep breaks" once a week - she would check into a motel and just sleep for ten hrs while her husband took care of the baby. With nursing, of course, this would mean pumping and taking a pump with you, but still, you would get more sleep not hearing her cry for whatever length of time you chose. You may be able to do this in your own home if it's big enough to not hear her in another part of the house and you can keep yourself from her for a bit. I'm sure your baby would still be attached to you in the long run, still have her needs met by whoever would care for her (your husband or even a hired babysitter), if you did this once in a while. Getting some rest can make all the difference in the world. And so can support in general, so I'm glad you're online talking about this even though i'm sure the time is hard to spare. Many hugs, and know that many people have you in their thoughts.


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## RaeAnne (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
I get that PPD is real and we should all evaluate ourselves for that potential, but the reality is you can have a bad relationship with your spouse and no one instantly blames depression. But have a difficult time with you baby, fail to achieve the perfect June Cleaver moment and it _has_ to be PPD. And if we just take a pill it will no longer matter that our baby keeps us up all night.

This was exactly my point. Thank you.









I don't want to "try" to keep this going, but I don't want to ignore people's questions if they have them, so I'm just going with it.

My dd was born with severe meconium aspiration. I needed an emergency c-section because her heartrate was flat, and she could have died any time during her first 12 hours of being in the world. She was in the NICU for almost a week, and I am lucky enough to have a baby who not only lived, but has no long-term issues.

You know why I'm pissed? I'm pissed at myself for not being good enough, and I'm pissed at my baby for "making" me feel that way. A baby doesn't go away, you can't avoid her for weeks at a time. I have to face my failure every single day, every hour even, and it's difficult. I'm pissed that this isn't what I expected, and it doesn't seem like other people are having this problem. As a result of all this drama I have created, I am trying to lower my standards, get more SLEEP, and quit thinking everyone else is perfect. I've been a little annoyed with some of this AP crap for awhile, but I've felt like I was evil for questioning it. No longer.

RaeAnne


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## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

The thing about AP is that you havw to do what works for you. Take the good and leave th bad. It is not about being a martyr, I learned that the hard way. You HAVE to make sure your own needs are being met too. It is not all about the baby. When your own needs are going unmet it will just make you resent the baby, and it sounds like that is what is happening with you.

It may be depression, it may not; either way the baby is staying so it would be best to find a way to make it all work. You cannot continue being so pissed, it isn't good for you or anyone else in your family. Something clearly has to change to make you feel better.

I don't know why people think it is funny to tell a new mom that it doesn't get better. IT DOES GET BETTER, a lot better. You will feel more comfortable as the months go by and it will be easier. I promise.


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

You know why I'm pissed? I'm pissed at myself for not being good enough, and I'm pissed at my baby for "making" me feel that way. A baby doesn't go away, you can't avoid her for weeks at a time. I have to face my failure every single day, every hour even, and it's difficult. I'm pissed that this isn't what I expected, and it doesn't seem like other people are having this problem. As a result of all this drama I have created, I am trying to lower my standards, get more SLEEP, and quit thinking everyone else is perfect. I've been a little annoyed with some of this AP crap for awhile, but I've felt like I was evil for questioning it. No longer.
You have every right to grieve. Grieve for the birth you wanted, grieve for the dreams of cuddling a content newborn, grieve for the loss of that perfect picture you imagined. Anger and sadness, frustration and desperation. Those are normal expressions of grief.

I don't think anyone can understand what it is like to deal with a baby who cries all the time and never sleeps unless they have one themselves. It is hell. It takes every ounce of your resources and you never have a chance to refill. And it isn't as easy as just taking a break or letting the baby cry, it is so much more. The fatigue and stress run so deep that it takes a very long time to recover.

I had a difficult baby the first time around as well, he cried for up to 14 hours at a time, then he would sleep (on the breast) for 45 minutes then cry for another 3 or 4 hours, then repeat the cycle. He couldn't handle being held by anyone but me (or he would cry for another 3 hours) and he couldn't be put down EVER (or he would cry for another 3 or 4 hours). There was nothing I could do and I have never felt so helpless. I wanted to fix it but I just didn't know how. I felt like I was failing him every time he cried.

I hated when people suggested he had colic, he didn't. I hated when people suggested I had PPD, I didn't. I hated when people thought they could give me a break by taking him, they couldn't. I just wanted to be validated for what I went through and that was the one thing no one would offer. Instead they hinted around the fact that I was too overprotecting, that I was doing things wrong, that I should just let him cry, that he was spoiled. They made it worse.

My eldest is now 7. He still has his moments







And in hindsight I wouldn't have changed a thing. Going through that experience bonded us in a way that doesn't happen with an "easy" baby. (I have one of those too and though I am absolutely in love with her it is a different kind of bond). He is such a unique person and has bettered our lives in ways we could never have expected while we wandered the neighborhood with a screaming baby every night at 3 am. And after living through those early months (years....) I am so much stronger, more confident, more outspoken, and more patient. His difficult beginning brought out so many things in us we never knew existed.

It wasn't what I expected when I dreamed of motherhood, but it was what I got. And I survived it. Not because I am stronger than other women, or a better mother, a more attached mother, or June Cleaver in training. I survived it because I had no choice. You will get through it too and your babe will grow into a unique and wonderful little person and you will know it is because of you. Right now you are in survival mode, but it will get better. And even if it doesn't you will get better at dealing with it.

I will say though, it is crucial that you find some mama friends you can relate to. Just not being isolated makes a huge difference. Good luck


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
You know why I'm pissed? I'm pissed at myself for not being good enough, and I'm pissed at my baby for "making" me feel that way. A baby doesn't go away, you can't avoid her for weeks at a time. I have to face my failure every single day, every hour even, and it's difficult. I'm pissed that this isn't what I expected, and it doesn't seem like other people are having this problem. As a result of all this drama I have created, I am trying to lower my standards, get more SLEEP, and quit thinking everyone else is perfect. I've been a little annoyed with some of this AP crap for awhile, but I've felt like I was evil for questioning it. No longer.

RaeAnne

I have 3 children. My 3rd (almost 15 months) is much like your DD. She was fairly mellow until 5 months, and then ... OH MY GOODNESS. She stopped sleeping (day or night). And the crying, oh the crying. If we're out, she is fine, but when we are home, she cries and screams so often. If I put her down, she screams. I am not "allowed" to sit down unless I am nursing her. If I am sitting down with her and not nursing, she screams, screams, and screams. (And she eats plenty of solids, so I don't think it's that she's hungry.) I don't think it's a physical thing because, like I said, when we are out, she looks like a baby who would never scream.

My husband and I planned on having 2 or 3 children, but let me tell you . . .my 3rd DD has SEALED THE DEAL that I am never, ever, ever doing this again. I never understood why women who had everything "in place" (enough money, support, etc.) would cry if they got pregnant. Now I know I would cry if I got pregnant. I feel bad for my other children. They do their fair share of yelling at each other, but this screaming and constant, constant neediness of my 3rd makes me feel like we live in some sort of disruptive home with no chance at peace.

It is NOT AN AP thing. It is a baby thing. You did not make her this way. There are no easy fixes with a baby like this (though I have hope that your DD will grow out of it far faster than mine has!). But one thing-- it WILL get better. Since this is my 3rd, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel . . .your DD won't always be screaming, even though it's hard to imagine. It is so hard to get through. This is the baby that has made me actually want to go back to work many, many times, but not as a teacher. I'd want to go to a quiet office and just do my job without someone screaming at me all day.

I can't tell you how many times I have wished for my 3rd to grow up a little faster. I feel guilty-- how can I not want to treasure every moment? But then I think, no, I do not treasure the screaming. I do treasure _her_-- the difference with such a screamy baby is that when she is happy, it's like the best gift in the world.

My best advice is to take it one day at a time, take care of her, take care of you, and let others help.


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## Dena (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
This was exactly my point. Thank you.









I don't want to "try" to keep this going, but I don't want to ignore people's questions if they have them, so I'm just going with it.

My dd was born with severe meconium aspiration. I needed an emergency c-section because her heartrate was flat, and she could have died any time during her first 12 hours of being in the world. She was in the NICU for almost a week, and I am lucky enough to have a baby who not only lived, but has no long-term issues.

You know why I'm pissed? I'm pissed at myself for not being good enough, and I'm pissed at my baby for "making" me feel that way. A baby doesn't go away, you can't avoid her for weeks at a time. I have to face my failure every single day, every hour even, and it's difficult. I'm pissed that this isn't what I expected, and it doesn't seem like other people are having this problem. As a result of all this drama I have created, I am trying to lower my standards, get more SLEEP, and quit thinking everyone else is perfect. I've been a little annoyed with some of this AP crap for awhile, but I've felt like I was evil for questioning it. No longer.

RaeAnne

This got me thinking a little more, because my first dd was also born with severe meconium aspiration. She was in the NICU for two weeks, and also clung to life her first few hours. I was always told we were lucky she didn't have any long term issues, and my dh always said, no we AREN'T lucky - we worked all through the pg to make sure she would be this healthy, and, in the end, we were robbed, and you were too, of those first hours, of that joyous birth, of resting after your baby was born. Instead, I am guessing you were recovering from major surgery while being as ambulatory as possible to be at your dd's side. Where I come from, we don't call that lucky.

It is a huge loss, and it takes some time to grieve, and you certainly have every right to be majorly pi**ed about it. It stinks. I am still a little angry about it, truth be told. So I am wondering if this is part of what you are pissed about.

And yeah, the never feeling good enough, I can totally identify. I STILL feel this way with dd1 - no matter what I do, it is never enough. I am told it is because she is a child, but, honestly, I think it is just her. I have never seen such a small being demand to have so much control over her environment, and demand so much... well, just so freaking MUCH - out of life and everyone around her. It is enough to anger a saint, especially when you feel you are doing everything possible and it is not enough. That part hasn't gotten better, I have just learned to live with it, but there are other rewards that outweigh that frustration, at least for me. And please try to stop the tape in your head that tells you that you are a failure. You aren't. You are a great mom. You have just been given a baby that is more demanding than 90% of babies out there, and you are trying to do more mothering of her than probably 90% of moms out there. The two together equal one very worn out mama. And like the pp said, it is not you. Again, you are a great mom, you are not a failure.

I do hope it gets better for you - I know there is no guarantee, but I will say, I was never as in love with my daughter as I was after she hit about six months or so - once she was able to sit up, scooch around, and start doing things on her own, she got a LOT happier, and, not conincidentally, a LOT cuter. Also, by ten months, she was down to one night waking, and having sleep was huge. I know now why sleep deprivation is a form of torture.


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## lauriemoon (May 7, 2008)

I'm new to these boards but I just had to send you a big hug.









My daughter just turned three. I am only NOW beginning to feel like I can see straight after what have been the hardest years of my entire life. Do I ever understand your post!!!!

I had my daughter at age 40, after almost 20 years of a challenging, interesting career as a writer. Suddenly I was thrust into a Bizarroworld of virtually NO sleep and the not so subtle message from society and my Mom friends that THIS was the most amazing part of my life, that it was my higher calling, that it was a "joy" and all of this Pampers commercial stuff that frankly missed me by a mile. Don't get me wrong -- I adored my child from the very moment I laid eyes on her. Actually, from the moment I knew I was pregnant. I loved her so much -- and I also had the distinct feeling that she would be my biggest challenge, that she was brought to me to teach me things nobody else could teach me. But all my zen philosophizing didn't mean much when she was 6 months old and had not EVER slept more than one and a half hours at a stretch. I was angry and tired and lost. I was no longer a woman with a career. I was covered in spit-up with stress fractures in both feet from walking the floors with a crying child. I had elderly inlaws who could offer no help and a lot of childless friends who stopped by with stuffed animals and left quickly. I found myself crying almost as much as my daughter.

People tried to tell me it was PPD. It wasn't. It was situational frustration brought on by torture and extreme sleep deprivation. If someone doesn't have a high needs kid they'll never get it. They will never understand what it's like to do everything right -- to give it your 100 percent -- and have nothing work the way the books, the pediatricians and the other moms say it should! Then to have some well-meaning mom tell you your feelings aren't normal ... it's enough to make you want to bludgeon yourself to death with your hardbound edition of Dr. Sears Baby Book. The feminist in me questions too hasty diagnoses of PPD. If a woman was getting routinely beaten by her husband and forced by him to stay up all night for months on end, nobody would call her "depressed" and expect Prozac to solve it.

My daughter didn't sleep through the night until she was 2 and 1/4. No kidding. My husband and I thought we were living an existential nightmare right out of Sartre. Co-sleeping helped -- a lot. We just realized that we have a kid who doesn't sleep for long stretches. Luckily, as she got older she didn't freak out when she woke up, she just snuggled and went back to sleep. Ah, small miracles. I also found that sunlight helped. UV light helps regulate circadian rhythms. In this age of sunscreen and fear of skin cancer, doctors warn of getting babies out in the light. I think this is wrong. Oh, and moderate amounts of sunlght helped my mood, too.

What truly saved me -- and continues to save me -- is knowing that relationships often come with good and bad, with rewards but also resentments and hurt feelings. You are NOT a bad mother because you are pissed at the way things turned out. This relationship is forming and right now you are stuck with all the giving and very little in the way of getting back. I remember a turning point for me was when my daughter was about five months old. She woke up crying -- as she always did, and after only being asleep for about an hour -- and when she looked at me she just stopped crying and broke into the biggest most gorgeous gummy smile I had ever seen. I knew at that moment that no matter how hard it was, it was going to get better. I also knew that I was going to be a better person for all of it.

It does get better. And in my case, my high-needs kid has turned out to be a highly smart, extremely sensetive sweetheart who has the empathy of a wise old woman at the tender age of three. She is caring and funny and loving and silly. Because of her, I think I've become more caring and loving and silly, too. I also know that I will probably not have another child because of this experience. I just don't have it in me. And that's okay, too. Don't let someone else's script get in the way of figuring out your own life.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Violet2, I love you. That's one of the most savvy posts I've read in a while.

RaeAnne, you've got it. I can't find a flip emoticon to express myself here, but to have this discussion- especially here, in the public domain- takes REAL guts. I think that your daughter has a very strong mama, even if this isn't the job you dreamt of, and I wish we could fast-forward a few years and get you to the good bits- whatever that may be for you.

Welcome, LaurieMoon


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
This was exactly my point. Thank you.









You know why I'm pissed? I'm pissed at myself for not being good enough, and I'm pissed at my baby for "making" me feel that way. A baby doesn't go away, you can't avoid her for weeks at a time. I have to face my failure every single day, every hour even, and it's difficult. I'm pissed that this isn't what I expected, and it doesn't seem like other people are having this problem. As a result of all this drama I have created, I am trying to lower my standards, get more SLEEP, and quit thinking everyone else is perfect. I've been a little annoyed with some of this AP crap for awhile, but I've felt like I was evil for questioning it. No longer.

RaeAnne

1. First AP can get kind of cultish and over-the-top I've noticed. Do what works not what you think you ought to do or what some book that doesn't require sleep says you should.

I try very hard to keep DD happy, but right now my milk supply is tanking and I need to focus on my high maintenance boobs or we'll wean. This means sometimes she has to be on her own and fuss so I can pump.

And I need a shower so I set her up in the bouncy seat where she can see me. If she flips out, she flips out. It's twenty minutes out of hours and hours and hours of one-on-one attention. If it scars her for life, we are doomed as a species.

There's no win-win with infants, at least not with mine. It is impossible to meet all their needs so fully and throughly that they'll want for nothing.

2.My DD had meconium aspiration and spent the first three days in the NICU. We almost didn't get to bring her home. Fortunately, she did well and wasn't sick. We narrowly avoided a CS due to heart rate issues.

My labor and delivery did not go the way I had planned it to go. It totally did not conform to all that positive happy thinking meditation crapola I did while pregnant. My anger post labor was focused more on the people and marketing that led me to believe I could control the outcome with happy thoughts, that I could force my body to do what I commanded it to.

I've since decided trying to control labor is like trying to tell the ocean what to do. It is a force of nature unto itself. If I have another child, I am not going to worry about it. What happens, happens. So long as my decisions are informed and everyone is healthy, I'm good.

What happened is not your fault. The mind-body connection is not so strong that you bear sole responsibility for how your baby was born.

Definitely grieve it and honor your anger, but don't blame yourself. Don't feel guilty.

I've made it a personal rule to never allow myself to cave to momma's guilt because it's crippling and destructive. If I did my best, then that's enough and it's all I have to give. I can't be perfect. I can't avoid failure. I can't do it right all the time. All I can do is love my child and make the best decisions I can with the information I have.

Perfection is a zero sum game. You always lose. So I refuse to play.

3. And the hardest thing I think about motherhood is the lack of downtime. There's just never any breathing room. It's sooo intense and the lack of sleep makes you desperate.

Ooops DD is awake so I have to type fast...

Our society offers no support for mommas and we are sold a bill of goods as to what motherhood really entails. I have read many threads were mommas say they don't tell other women the truth because they don't want to scare them. So most of us pretty much remain ignorant of what motherhood is.

You have every right to be annoyed. I'm annoyed too, but I'm doing my best to make it work because I do love my daughter. I just wish I had enough sleep to enjoy her kwim?

Okay gotta run.

V


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## Jilian (Jun 16, 2003)

I love all of the honesty in this thread. It took a lot of guts for the OP to start it, but thank you. The perfect mother is a complete illusuion and it is time we dispelled all of the myths!


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Violet2, I love you. That's one of the most savvy posts I've read in a while.


Thanks









V


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## PPK (Feb 15, 2007)

Just want to say thank you to the OP for starting this thread. I felt like that several times in the first 4 or 5 months. Luckily, it never lasted too long, but I definately would get into a rage sometimes and feared for my son during and after those moments.

I can't say anything that hasn't already been said, but I will say that it does get better. DS is 9 months and it started to get easier around the 6th or 7th month... he still doesn't sleep great, but sometimes 3-5hr. stretches...sometimes not, but it is getting more frequent that he sleeps longer stretches. He also doesn't eat non-stop like he did in the first 4 months, he's quick (under 3-5minutes) and only 6 times a day or so. He can crawl and get around on his own too, I always gave him tummy time everyday so he'd be comfortable crawling around on his own.

Another big help is to tell yourself "I'm doing a good job", and believe it!! It sounds silly to remind yourself to do this, but it really helps alot. You are doing a good job mama, its normal to feel anrgry and depressed when you're in a lousy situation. Don't worry though, do take it one day at a time and it really does get better!!


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## minsca (Jun 25, 2007)

lauriemoon said:


> People tried to tell me it was PPD. It wasn't. It was situational frustration brought on by torture and extreme sleep deprivation. If someone doesn't have a high needs kid they'll never get it. They will never understand what it's like to do everything right -- to give it your 100 percent -- and have nothing work the way the books, the pediatricians and the other moms say it should! Then to have some well-meaning mom tell you your feelings aren't normal ... it's enough to make you want to bludgeon yourself to death with your hardbound edition of Dr. Sears Baby Book. The feminist in me questions too hasty diagnoses of PPD. If a woman was getting routinely beaten by her husband and forced by him to stay up all night for months on end, nobody would call her "depressed" and expect Prozac to solve it.
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry as a mother diagnosed with PPD, and knowing how I feel like before I started getting help for it, and knowing how I feel like afterwards. I don't understand why anyone would not seek out help from a dr or a therapist when they are feeling angry and pissed. Nobody is telling the OP that her feelings will not be validated if she goes and discusses how she feels with a dr or therapist. In fact for me it was when I finally went to a therapist that I finally did feel like my feelings were validated. That how I felt was "normal" in some sort of strange way.
> ...


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## saraann (Dec 1, 2006)

Raeanne. The infant times were the hardest for me. I do think every stage has it's challenges but for me it just keeps getting easier and easier. I have a two year old now and I like the toddler stage much more then the infant stage tantrums and all. It sounds like you have a high need baby, just like mine. It's hard. One thing that I read when she was small and crying a lot was about crying in arms. http://www.awareparenting.com/comfort.htm
It helped me let her cry in my arms or with me present without feeling like I had to make her stop crying. It helped me realize that it's OK for her to cry and to just be there with her without trying to get her to stop by bouncing, rocking, walking, just laying with her and let her cry so she can release stress. I think it helped her and just the change in mindset helped me so much. Anyways, it will get better, I promise!


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## FreeRangeMama (Nov 22, 2001)

Quote:

I'm sorry as a mother diagnosed with PPD, and knowing how I feel like before I started getting help for it, and knowing how I feel like afterwards. I don't understand why anyone would not seek out help from a dr or a therapist when they are feeling angry and pissed. Nobody is telling the OP that her feelings will not be validated if she goes and discusses how she feels with a dr or therapist. In fact for me it was when I finally went to a therapist that I finally did feel like my feelings were validated. That how I felt was "normal" in some sort of strange way.
But you HAD PPD and that is not the same as NOT having PPD. If you have PPD then meds and doctors are *one* of the ways you can deal with it. But just because a mother is tired, stressed, sad, and angry it doesn't mean she has PPD. We can have those emotions because we have those emotions. Because the situation we are in warrants those emotions. Because that is just the way we feel right now. That doesn't take away from the very real emotions people who have PPD feel, but treating someone for a condition they don't have isn't any more helpful than not treating a condition someone actually has.


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## zoedeansmom (Jun 21, 2007)

I may not say anything that hasn't been said a hundred times already (I just skimmed a few responses) but I just had to write to you because I have been in that dark place you wrote of so many times, with my first I lived there for several weeks constantly, then off and on for well over a year. I felt like I wasn't meant to be a mom and was angry at others for making it seem so easy/fun to have a baby and angry at myself for planning it, thinking I wanted it, like I had been tricked or something. My first was very high-needs, her behavior was much like what you describe. My whole life, I've been a book person, could find answers to everything in books. With motherhood that changed. The books, even Dr. Sears ones, made me feel terrible. They made everything sound so easy! "Just do x, y, and z and things will be perfect!"Well, I felt like I tried everything and things were still terrible. I felt judged from everyone. When I sought help, it seemed like I only heard from 2 camps: either, "If she wants to be held all the time and nurse every hour, just let her!" or "Let her cry it out, get her on a schedule, be the boss!" Neither of those was right for me and it took me a long time to find my own way but I did it. I'm still "evolving" but DD1 is 2 and 1/2 now and I feel like we understand each other so much better now. Yes, it's still hard sometimes but the hard times are so much shorter and the fun/rewarding times are so much bigger! I've come to realize I'm just not a baby person, never have been and that's ok, that's part of who I am. And Z. didn't like being a baby. She was frustrated all the time. The older and more independent she gets, the happier she is.
I hated not getting positive feedback from my baby. Intellectually, I knew she was communicating the only way she knew how as a baby but I really needed her to smile at me, to tell me she loved me, to thank me, and she couldn't. Now she can and it helps a lot. She even says things like "Thanks for dinner, mommy". It's awesome!
I also spent a long time blaming myself for the kind of baby she was. She cried hours a day, only napped without being held or in the car 7 times. SEVEN. And now she doesn't nap at all. She still doesn't usually sleep through the night. But having DD2 (yes, things got so much better after DD1 turned 1, we had another!!) who is such a vastly different baby, made me see they really are who they are when they are born. It's no one's fault. Not yours, not theirs. We all have to find out what works for our families and our kids and judge their progress based on who they are. Yeah, Z doesn't always sleep through the night but she does sometimes and she goes to bed way easier than she used to and wakes up happier and isn't up for very long so FOR HER, she's come a long way. It may not be good sleeping by another child's standards or according to a book, but it's good for her. Her strengths are in other areas. After all, a "bad" trait is nothing but an extreme of a "good" trait. Z is incredibly stubborn which can be maddening but she's also very tenacious which is an incredibly important life skill that has pushed her to learn a lot. She has also always been very sensitive to others' feelings, especially my own which makes her super difficult when I'm depressed and we get caught in a downward spiral. But that sensitivity has translated into wonderful empathy which makes her a good friend to other children.
I, too, remember saying things like "feminism is such a scam-you can't have it all, etc"I felt like AP parenting didn't mean families first as much as it meant children first, then husbands, pets, houses, communities, pretty much everyone except mommas who are always, always last. Again, I felt like I had been tricked somehow. I had to take some info from the AP camp, some from other sources, and lots from just following my own instincts to figure how the kind of parent i wanted to be. And I had to compromise for my own sanity. Co-sleeping is a wonderful idea but it didn't work for us, especially once Z was older and more active. We put her in her own room at 7 mos and I felt so guilty about that, didn't want my AP friends to know. But it helped us, it was right for us, it wasn't cruel, it was just different from what worked for my friends.
That's another thing: FRIENDS. Start a playgroup, a meetup, go to child-friendly shops and coffeeshops and introduce yourself. I actually had my husband make me "business cards" that said "I'm Zoe's mom" on one side and had my contact info on the other. I'm shy but this card made me bold. I could and did easily hand them out to any momma who seemed cool and had a baby near the age of mine. I'm sure I looked crazy in my desperation to meet others and many never called me but some did and I'm still friends with them. You need to surround yourself with support, with other honest moms who won't judge. Having that support from the beginning with DD2 has made all the difference. Now, on bad days, I call one of them and invite myself over. It helps a lot.
Try to get active if you can. Physical activity works wonders on depression (which you may or may not have, I'm in no position to diagnose.) I ended up on medication, seeing a counselor, and journaling and that all helped a lot. Walking with my baby in the park saved me. We went out no matter what the weather at my doctor's advice. SAVED me, I'm not kidding. Now I'm a member at a gym and the "me-time" I get to have while I work out is wonderful. I get to watch TV or read or listen to music while on the equipment with no interruptions while my children are in the daycare. It's the best money I ever spent. (Many places even offer scholarships or maybe you have family who can pitch in if it's too expensive.)
There's so much else I want to say but I've already rambled so much. I really feel for you, I have totally been there, it might or might not be "normal" but that doesn't matter. Forget you even know that word. What matters is that it is what you are experiencing now. And you need to find solutions that work for you. I hope you have.
Please feel free to contact me anytime, PM me or whatever, if you want to talk.








-Christina


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## Dena (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *FreeRangeMama* 
But you HAD PPD and that is not the same as NOT having PPD. If you have PPD then meds and doctors are *one* of the ways you can deal with it. But just because a mother is tired, stressed, sad, and angry it doesn't mean she has PPD. We can have those emotions because we have those emotions. Because the situation we are in warrants those emotions. Because that is just the way we feel right now. That doesn't take away from the very real emotions people who have PPD feel, but treating someone for a condition they don't have isn't any more helpful than not treating a condition someone actually has.

This is a very valid point. But I think all any of us are saying - at least all I have been saying, is that it can't hurt to go talk to someone. I have an awesome therapist, and, honestly, sometimes, that is all I need Did I have ppd with my first? Yeah, I think so. BUT, I didn't medicate for it, nor did my therapist ever recommend that. She recommended other, natural means of treatment, including exercise, time to myself, sleep, etc., and she was great at helping me discern between sleep deprivation and depression. And, honestly, having someone impartial to talk to really really helped me. It helped me to figure out what was "normal" (though honestly I really don't like that word in the mothering context, I think "common" is a much better word) and what was due to my birth experience, and what might be chemicals and hormones. Just understanding all of it was a huge weight off of my shoulders. Just having someone help me to figure out coping mechanisms was a huge weight off too.

So, in sum, I was not recommending instant pill popping, but I was, and still am, recommeding a good therapist/life coach/mothering coach, whatever you want to call it. Just an objective, strong, third party (and I think having a woman be that third party is valuable in this context) that you can unload on, and be told you are not insane, you are not a bad mom, etc., etc. That has saved me, and so I would recommed it to any one, especially a mom with a high needs baby.

Like a pp said, we are not meant to do this alone, and if it takes hiring help so you won't be alone, so be it. That may just be the sad reality of some of our lives.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

How are you doing today RaeAnne?


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## zoedeansmom (Jun 21, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GooeyRN* 
I do things a bit different with this baby. With my dd, I never let her cry for anything and I burnt out. With this one I will let him cry while I eat, drink, pee/poo, or shower. (I offer to nurse first and make sure his diaper is clean and dry) To me, those are needs and if I don't have those needs met I am not a good mom. If your physical needs aren't met you will be miserable. Maybe its not fully AP that I let my baby cry while I get a drink, but it keeps me from resenting my baby.









This seems obvious to me now but I didn't realize it for a long time when I was a new mom: there is a difference between "crying it out" and just crying. Putting the baby in the crib while crying so you can eat, drink, etc is not the same as leaving them in for hours when they are hungry, etc. I didn't allow myself to satisfy even my biological needs in a timely matter with DD1 and this led to all of us being pretty unhappy and me being resentful. I've learned to pee when I need to pee, even if someone's crying while I do it. Of course, I make sure the baby's fed and clean first, but you know what I mean. And DH takes care of the kids after I first nurse the baby in the morning and until I have peed, put my contacts in, and had coffee and breakfast. This is usually just 10 minutes, but it makes me a happier/better mommy and wife. I've heard the analogy before to think like they tell you on the airplane: strap on your oxygen mask first, then help your kid with theirs. You are no good to anyone if you're not taking care of yourself. This is easier said than done, but I'm getting better and you can too!


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## minsca (Jun 25, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dena* 
This is a very valid point. But I think all any of us are saying - at least all I have been saying, is that it can't hurt to go talk to someone. I have an awesome therapist, and, honestly, sometimes, that is all I need Did I have ppd with my first? Yeah, I think so. BUT, I didn't medicate for it, nor did my therapist ever recommend that. She recommended other, natural means of treatment, including exercise, time to myself, sleep, etc., and she was great at helping me discern between sleep deprivation and depression. And, honestly, having someone impartial to talk to really really helped me. It helped me to figure out what was "normal" (though honestly I really don't like that word in the mothering context, I think "common" is a much better word) and what was due to my birth experience, and what might be chemicals and hormones. Just understanding all of it was a huge weight off of my shoulders. Just having someone help me to figure out coping mechanisms was a huge weight off too.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was trying to say in my other post!! You just said it a lot more elequontly.


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## zoedeansmom (Jun 21, 2007)

There's a book called "Buddhism for Mothers" that helped me a lot. (and I'm not even Buddhist or anything, it's more about a state of mind than a religion.)


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoedeansmom* 
There's a book called "Buddhism for Mothers" that helped me a lot. (and I'm not even Buddhist or anything, it's more about a state of mind than a religion.)

Oooo I'm going to look for that book! Sounds right up my alley. I've actually started reading more Buddhist stuff lately to help me be more objective.

V


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## zoedeansmom (Jun 21, 2007)

More info now that the book is in front of me (I bought my own copy so I can reread as needed!): "Buddhism for Mothers; a calm approach to caring for yourself and your children" by Sarah Napthali ISBN 1-74114-010-2. I'm usually turned off by "self-help" books personally, but this one really spoke to me. In fact, I should read it again now that I have a baby again...


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saraann* 
Raeanne. The infant times were the hardest for me. I do think every stage has it's challenges but for me it just keeps getting easier and easier. I have a two year old now and I like the toddler stage much more then the infant stage tantrums and all. It sounds like you have a high need baby, just like mine. It's hard. One thing that I read when she was small and crying a lot was about crying in arms. http://www.awareparenting.com/comfort.htm
It helped me let her cry in my arms or with me present without feeling like I had to make her stop crying. It helped me realize that it's OK for her to cry and to just be there with her without trying to get her to stop by bouncing, rocking, walking, just laying with her and let her cry so she can release stress. I think it helped her and just the change in mindset helped me so much. Anyways, it will get better, I promise!

I've been looking for this article since the thread started. One comment I hear a lot from older women to fussy/grizzly babies is "oh, are you telling me all about it then?" And they ARE. We live in a fix-it, fix-it quick society (let's face it, so far in this thread you've been diagnosed with PPD and PTSD, your DD has been diagnosed with milk allergies, reflux and needing the services of a cranial osteopath) and sometimes, maybe, we don't need to be altered. We just need to be accepted for who and what we are.


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## lauriemoon (May 7, 2008)

Just to reply to Minsca -- of course one should seek help if they feel angry and miserable. But the overprescription of antidepressants is well known. As are the new studies that show most seratonin reuptake inhibitors don't help mild to moderate depression any more than placebos. What they DON"T know is whether or not seratonin reuptake inhibitors affect developing brains of babies who breastfeed women who take the drugs. ANd that is something to consider.

I'm not going all Tom Cruise here -- but I get very upset that normal situational anxiety and depression is treated as disease in women. Yes, there are genuine cases of PPD. Of course! But women are traditionally considered delicate and prone to mental illness by the medical profession. My mother was prescribed valium the day I was born in 1964 -- as were most of her friends. I don't think that much has changed. Since this is a board of Natural Family Living, one can expect to find people -- like me -- who believe Big Pharma has most AMericans duped in many ways.

That said, antidepressants are always an option. And talk therapy is fantastic -- I've had over 15 years of therapy and think it should be manditory. Nutrition is MAJOR. Also, prolactin can affect some of us adversely. Oddly, I was much more even keeled once I started ovulating again after breastfeeding. But nobody tells mothers these things. Too often they lump everyone into PPD -- similarly to the way they lump all children outside the normal in behavior as ADD.

What I feel the OP is trying to express is a NORMAL frustration and aggravation with a high needs baby in an environment that is not helpful. We don't have the village it takes to raise our babies. I'm just trying to share my experience. I felt the same way. I got through it. I learned from it. I find that all instances of the blues for me have been tools for personal growth if I treat them as such. My two cents, anyway.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zoedeansmom* 
More info now that the book is in front of me (I bought my own copy so I can reread as needed!): "Buddhism for Mothers; a calm approach to caring for yourself and your children" by Sarah Napthali ISBN 1-74114-010-2. I'm usually turned off by "self-help" books personally, but this one really spoke to me. In fact, I should read it again now that I have a baby again...

I didn't even know they had these types of books. I'm so glad you mentioned it as I always find the Buddhist (and Taoist) approach to detachment helpful since I am such a passionate person. I ordered three different books on motherhood and buddhisim.

Momma Zen (Love the opening line: How do you go straight on a crooked path? and then the quote: You should study that not only do you become a mother when your child is born, but also that you become a child. So true in many ways!)

Buddhism for Mothers

Buddhism for Mothers of Young Children

If anyone wants to start a discussion/reader group in the books forum, let me know.

V


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lauriemoon* 
Just to reply to Minsca -- of course one should seek help if they feel angry and miserable. But the overprescription of antidepressants is well known. As are the new studies that show most seratonin reuptake inhibitors don't help mild to moderate depression any more than placebos. What they DON"T know is whether or not seratonin reuptake inhibitors affect developing brains of babies who breastfeed women who take the drugs. ANd that is something to consider.

I'm not going all Tom Cruise here -- but I get very upset that normal situational anxiety and depression is treated as disease in women. Yes, there are genuine cases of PPD. Of course! But women are traditionally considered delicate and prone to mental illness by the medical profession. My mother was prescribed valium the day I was born in 1964 -- as were most of her friends. I don't think that much has changed. Since this is a board of Natural Family Living, one can expect to find people -- like me -- who believe Big Pharma has most AMericans duped in many ways.

That said, antidepressants are always an option. And talk therapy is fantastic -- I've had over 15 years of therapy and think it should be manditory. Nutrition is MAJOR. Also, prolactin can affect some of us adversely. Oddly, I was much more even keeled once I started ovulating again after breastfeeding. But nobody tells mothers these things. Too often they lump everyone into PPD -- similarly to the way they lump all children outside the normal in behavior as ADD.

What I feel the OP is trying to express is a NORMAL frustration and aggravation with a high needs baby in an environment that is not helpful. We don't have the village it takes to raise our babies. I'm just trying to share my experience. I felt the same way. I got through it. I learned from it. I find that all instances of the blues for me have been tools for personal growth if I treat them as such. My two cents, anyway.

Dear Laurie Moon:

I love you.

V


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## kristen1978 (Dec 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saraann* 
Raeanne. The infant times were the hardest for me. I do think every stage has it's challenges but for me it just keeps getting easier and easier. I have a two year old now and I like the toddler stage much more then the infant stage tantrums and all. It sounds like you have a high need baby, just like mine. It's hard. One thing that I read when she was small and crying a lot was about crying in arms. http://www.awareparenting.com/comfort.htm
It helped me let her cry in my arms or with me present without feeling like I had to make her stop crying. It helped me realize that it's OK for her to cry and to just be there with her without trying to get her to stop by bouncing, rocking, walking, just laying with her and let her cry so she can release stress. I think it helped her and just the change in mindset helped me so much. Anyways, it will get better, I promise!

THANK YOU for the link. I can't tell you how much it helped me.


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## Collinsky (Jul 7, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *saraann* 
Raeanne. The infant times were the hardest for me. I do think every stage has it's challenges but for me it just keeps getting easier and easier. I have a two year old now and I like the toddler stage much more then the infant stage tantrums and all. It sounds like you have a high need baby, just like mine. It's hard. One thing that I read when she was small and crying a lot was about crying in arms. http://www.awareparenting.com/comfort.htm
It helped me let her cry in my arms or with me present without feeling like I had to make her stop crying. It helped me realize that it's OK for her to cry and to just be there with her without trying to get her to stop by bouncing, rocking, walking, just laying with her and let her cry so she can release stress. I think it helped her and just the change in mindset helped me so much. Anyways, it will get better, I promise!









: this is what I was talking about before, when I would make sure my son's physical needs were all met, and then I'd just let him cry - accepting that sometimes his need was "to cry" was so freeing.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Oh, something else that was a lightbulb moment for me. You know how someone may have a screaming child and not be bothered by it? (Not to say they wouldn't try to soothe the child, but sometimes a child just cries.) It really bothers me. Not only because I feel bad for my child, but frankly . . .it's the noise. It is so jarring, so unsettling. I know it's meant to be that way (so that we adults do something about it!) but when there is nothing you can do, what do you do?

Well, I finally realized that I am a highly sensitive person. It made SO MUCH sense as to why some things truly bother me, and why some childhood phases are much harder for me than others. I am thankful that the baby phase isn't my favorite since they are babies for such a short time.

Here's a quiz to see if it applies to you:
http://www.hsperson.com/pages/test.htm


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

OK- so on with the continued honesty?

It is NOT just the infant stage that will make you feel like a crappy parent. A whining toddler, a pre-schooler with potty issues, a kid who is aggressive, the list goes on. If you think that all of a sudden the baby turns into a toddler and the magic moment happens when the sun comes out and they are a pugdy little angel that you just giggle with all day- it ain't gonna happen. More than anything, finding the balance of motherhood is about BEING TRUE TO YOURSELF. There is no perfect (and, once you get past infancy and the very direct needs, you start realising that "perfect" isn't perfect... How do you teach your children to express anger if you are always using the perfect words and never get angry? How do you teach them to apologize if you never need to because you are peferct? How do they know the "real you" if everything is so "perfect" all the time?). I'm just saying- don't treat this idea of "what is the perfect mother" as an infancy thing and that as soon as Baby can talk you will always know the exact right thing to do and say. It is a whole philosophy, and is a part of all ages and stages of mothering. Some people might "like" certain stages better, but this idea of "perfect" or "best" parenting is never resolved with a child growing older. The resolution only comes when you come to terms with your own mothering.

As for AP, here we go. I would venture to say that 99% of the people here DO NOT DO EVERYTHING AP. It is a rounded philosphy that is not meant to be a set of rules, but a guiding principal. It is a way to see your child as a developing person who needs care instead of a routine. Look around the boards and really SEE. Most people who are very vocal around here usually have a "cause"- they might be really into the vax or circ stuff, but totally scheduled a c-section. There might be people who are emphatic about breastfeeding, but could care less about the family bed. AP is absolutly NOT all about the baby without the mom mattering at all. It is a response to a modern philosphy of parenting that disregards infants, seeing their behavior as manipulative or "bad habits" to be corrected. AP is about finding a way to UNDERSTAND and meet the baby's needs but in a way that meets mom's needs as well. Ya know, some things that seem like "rules" just don't fit into our whole of our lives. What is worse... A totally angry and hostile mom who is exhausted from lack of sleep because they are so dedicated to BF or a bottle from daddy in the middle of the night so mom can get 4 hours straight of rest? I'm not saying that bf doesn't matter- I'm saying that the question is not between "perfect" and "lousy" but "what is the best answer for this particular woman and baby in this situation?" There are a million of these scenarios... Do I eliminate the family bed because it is threatening our marriage? Do I cloth diaper even though it takes away my very little free time? It goes on and on. Often times, it is not about questioning AP, but finding how to be an authentic parent and true to yourself while still listening to and caring for your child in the best way possible in a world where babies are treated as objects that can be turned on or off and who are looking to manipulate a parent instead of just being the dependent, innocent and confusing little things that they are. Being AP is about being an engaged, attentive, and responsive parent... not about checking off "hippie" things on a list. Motherhood is messy and there is no one way of doing it. We all just do the best we can. AP is finding that way WITH your child instead of continually looking for a way to adjust them to some version of what you think they should be.

The facts of motherhood are: You are going to disagee with other mothers. Sometimes passionately. You will disagree with people here. You will be offended and comforted by other mothers- sometimes in the same breath. You will sometimes need to go your own way and listen to your heart. You will sometimes hear your own words come back at you and can't imagine how stupid you were "back then". You will need to meet new challenges at every stage. You will sometimes not know what to do, and sometimes you will know exactly what to do but everyone can't figure out why you are doing it. Sometimes you will need to put your needs first. Sometimes you have to take the back seat. Sometimes you will mess up. Sometimes it really WILL be your kid's fault and you did the "right" thing. You will have to come to the ultimate balance in mothering of holding youself to the highest standard you can and striving to do the best you can while simultanously forgiving youself and letting go of the things you can't control. I do not make that last sentance lightly. It is an honest to G-d truth, and probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do and I think even the "best" moms struggle to keep themeselves balanced in this place. But if you don't do it, it is so easy to get sucked down into the feeling of failure. And to make it that much harder- there is no one way to come to this balance. Really, you have to walk this path alone. I feel like I'm sounding like a kooky new-age book, but really- It's true. I think all thoughtful moms stuggle with this. I know I sure do. Every day.

And, I have to say- being occasionally angry and resentful is normal. It is a big change, and even if you are caring for yourself and have the perfect situation it is hard. But there is a depth and level that is NOT normal (and of course, armchair psychiatrists on internet boards cannot tell that with a few posts- so as helpful as everyone here wants to be, I am sure there is much more to what you are going through and you may need to look to your, heart, your family and a trusted doctor to see if you really may need to seek further help). In my own level of honesty, I have to say that I found some of the things in your original post disturbing. I hope that you can find some help in whatever way you need.


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## lauriemoon (May 7, 2008)

Alexsam -- you rock! Will you write an attachment parenting compendium?









I just had to high five you for an excellent post that sums up exactly how I feel about my and my husband's approach to attachment parenting. We always remind ourselves that if we are respecting our child as an individual and showing her that she can love and trust us, then we are doing right by her. Also, when we teach her that we also have some boundaries -- and show her what they are in age-appropriate ways -- she's learning that she, too, can meet OUR needs in this family relationship. I'm just now starting to see a real benefit to this parenting style. While most of my daughter's peers throw tantrums, our girl really knows how to check her emotions and calm down just by me reminding her that her feelings are valid but a total meltdown or aggression toward others is ust not cool. I am stunned that she continually stops, catches her breath and says, "I'm okay now, mommy." (How's THAT for "self soothing"!?!?!) She is really considerate of the feelings of others in ways that I haven't seen in most barely-three year olds. It's nice to see all those years of suffering and sleep deprivation paying off.

But then again, who knows what the next stage of development will bring, right?

Anyway, I appreciated your post!


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## lauriemoon (May 7, 2008)

And sending love right back to Violet2 ...







:


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## RaeAnne (Mar 7, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lauriemoon* 
People tried to tell me it was PPD. It wasn't. It was situational frustration brought on by torture and extreme sleep deprivation. If someone doesn't have a high needs kid they'll never get it. They will never understand what it's like to do everything right -- to give it your 100 percent -- and have nothing work the way the books, the pediatricians and the other moms say it should! Then to have some well-meaning mom tell you your feelings aren't normal ... it's enough to make you want to bludgeon yourself to death with your hardbound edition of Dr. Sears Baby Book. The feminist in me questions too hasty diagnoses of PPD. If a woman was getting routinely beaten by her husband and forced by him to stay up all night for months on end, nobody would call her "depressed" and expect Prozac to solve it.











I mean, it's not funny, but it is because it's so true! My home is my torture chamber, and my torturer is a 4 month old!!







But you said exactly what I was thinking without me even knowing how to make a parallel.

You know, I always made a point to tell people I hated being pregnant because I wanted them to know it as okay to feel that way, if they happened to have the same experience. I'm going to start telling pregnant moms that it just might really suck for awhile.









Oh, and to the pp who said I shouldn't have to feel "grateful" for my c-section, I agree, but I actually do. What I DO feel p*ssed about, I just realized tonight, is that I believed the "natural birth is natural" crowd 100%, and "they" let me down. No, they didn't mean to, but it didn't happen for me. Now, those same people (SOME of them, not all) are saying a VBAC is no big deal, to advocate for my "rights," the medical community is only trying to oppress you... I want them to be right, but I know better this time, no matter how much I want them to be right. Now I have to worry about making a choice between putting myself at greater risk and never having a positive birth (repeat section) or putting my baby at greater risk and possibly having a dead/brain damaged child because I was advocating for my "rights" (VBAC). Shoot, maybe I'm not supposed to say that here. I'm just saying how I feel, obviously not everyone sees it this way. But THAT is what I feel angry about with my birth.

RaeAnne


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## RaeAnne (Mar 7, 2007)

You know what's hard about not going full-force with AP? I just don't fit in anywhere! I don't know anyone who thinks I shouldn't let her CIO. The parents I know on a more personal level are mainly parents I would not like to emulate. So I find AP... and people are going overboard here too. I just want absolutes.







I'm an idealist by nature, and I like to know what is coming next due to a tumultuous childhood. It's hard to "go with the flow."

RaeAnne


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Yup. Certainly on MDC, there's an attitude that natural is the only way- and yes, I'm a huge natural birth advocate and an even bigger homebirth advocate. This is one of my hobbyhorses BUT a c-section could have saved Rowan's life, if it were done in time. Knowing this, there's no way that I could ever judge someone but from talking to others, I think that there's a huge difference in the ability to come to terms with what's just happened. Communication from your carers plays a part in this, I think.
Have you read Birth as an American Rite of Passage, btw? If not, you really, really should.
I also, sadly, totally second Alexsam's point that every age has challenges.

Sorry, we cross-posted. You aren't going to get any absolutes in parenting, not any more. Except one. She loves you, and sooner or later you will realise that you're in love with her.


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## ians_mommy (Apr 5, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
I've been looking for this article since the thread started. One comment I hear a lot from older women to fussy/grizzly babies is "oh, are you telling me all about it then?" And they ARE. We live in a fix-it, fix-it quick society (let's face it, so far in this thread you've been diagnosed with PPD and PTSD, your DD has been diagnosed with milk allergies, reflux and needing the services of a cranial osteopath) and sometimes, maybe, we don't need to be altered. We just need to be accepted for who and what we are.











I so agree


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## DasMaedchen (May 10, 2008)

I think that the extreme nature of your feelings is what makes them a bit abnormal. Not that YOU are abnormal, just some of the thoughts you've expressed in your post.

It's absolutely, completely normal to be frustrated with your baby for crying....and crying....and crying.....but you sound extremely overwhelmed.

I'm not going to go the PPD route because you said you don't want to hear it, but what about general depression? Have you thought about talking these feelings through with someone who is trained to help you sort them? It may make a difference.

As far as the crying a lot, my daughter is 9 months old and she definitely went through a spell of frequent crying around the 3-5 month mark. It seemed like nothing I did really made a difference when she got that way. It has gotten easier with each month she gets older.

It also took me a while to allow myself to let her cry a bit before picking her up, I used to hover over her and immediately pick her up at the first whimper. Now I know that a lot of times she'll cry a few minutes, calm herself, and get to sleep or back to sleep.

Sorry you're struggling, and I would strongly urge you to at least consider talking with a counselor or therapist who can help you figure out what's causing the overwhelming feeling. Your parenting experience can be a lot happier, please know it doesn't have to be like this.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
You know what's hard about not going full-force with AP? I just don't fit in anywhere! I don't know anyone who thinks I shouldn't let her CIO. The parents I know on a more personal level are mainly parents I would not like to emulate. So I find AP... and people are going overboard here too. I just want absolutes.







I'm an idealist by nature, and I like to know what is coming next due to a tumultuous childhood. It's hard to "go with the flow."

RaeAnne

Yeah any control you had is over. OVER.









Just when I think I've got things under control (had a really great day, baby slept well etc...) she changes the game. She starts zigging when I thought we were zagging. I'm often frantically trying to keep up with the steps in the dance.

I'm a terrible dancer! And she's a terrible leader!

I'm working really hard now to focus on four tenets of motherhood (self selected--it helps me to have a mission statement because I am weird like that)

--This too shall pass (sometimes in as little as five minutes)
--A good moment is not predictive of a good day, a bad moment is not predictive of a bad day (i.e. no expectations)
--Be the mother she needs me to be-not what I think I should do or what I want to do, but what she needs me to do.
--Do what works.

I like the baby stage okay, but I am really looking forward to when she can talk and communicate her needs because I don't like making it up on the fly.

We really should start a tribe.

Anyway, I think the other factor is my personality. I'm direct and plain spoken. I call 'em like I see 'em and it chafes when everyone is in princess pony land completely oblivious to the fact that they haven't slept, showered, and are drowning in spit-up, kwim? It's like lying to my literal minded personality (when really it's probably a great coping mechanism). And then no one appreciates it when I burst their princess pony land bubble so I just keep my mouth shut (aside from this thread).

Lastly, there's a neat motherhood essay by Anna Quindlen, you can read it as part of an excerpt of her recent book. Scroll down to the last essay where it says November 2000 IF NOT FOR THE PHOTOGRAPHS. I thought she had some relevant thoughts pertaining to this discussion (although the style is very sentimental). I like what she said about the parenting books and experts.

V


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

Again, a reminder that it is usually the people who are very passionate about topics are the ones that post and are the ones most likely to get your attention. I bet for every person who says "There should be NO c-sections! Doctors are HORRIBLE! You were WRONGED!" there are 50 who say "Yeah.... I appreciate natural birth, but I don't agree with this...". For a while, I was actually mad at MDC







. I felt like I could never "be" what "MDC" wanted or what it was. Then, I started to really SEE it as a big mix of individuals. There are something like 50,000 people on here! Imagine if you stood in the middle of a small city and explained your complex problem (with no facial expression, in monotone... as what writing reduces communication to). You would get answers from extremists with their own agenda. You would get a lot of people who thought normal things but didn't speak up. You'd get some good advice. But you would never think that you had to agree with this whole motley crew! Each board has its crusaders. But most people are in the middle and reasonable about many things. Take what you see as true and use that.

Have you tried going to a La Leche League meeting? It is nice to see people in real life who have AP leanings but who can express a more middle ground.
And they are pretty easy to find.

And, sorry again, but there is ABSOLUTELY NO IDEAL. None. You can only come close when you find you are content and happy as a mother and your child and family is content and happy.... Most of the time. And again, no one can tell you how to do that. Not even Peggy O'Mara! You have to find your own peace.

I'll tell you what I did. I took a break from MDC for a while







. I was getting so down about some things that we choose to do as a family that I knew were what we needed to do that I decided that until I could return to my own peace about them, I wasn't going to read any more... a MDC vacation. No more books. No more all that. Me, DH, and baby, listening and learning in our own little family and following our hearts. I came to terms with my parenting and now I don't feel so influenced by everyone elses ideas.

Also, I was thinking that at this stage, I was dealing with the CIO stuff... I came to understand that me leaving a crying baby with someone else who loved him and was trying to meet his needs was NOT CIO







. Letting Daddy take care of the baby in the middle of the night with a bottle of expressed breast milk was not CIO (even if the baby was crying and wanted me...). Letting my mother take a shift in the late afternoon while I got a quick nap was not CIO. They loved my son, they were caring for him, he was not alone or abandoned or calling with no response. People that loved him with all their hearts were caring for him and meeting his needs, and I really should have taken advantage of that more often for my own personal health. I'm pg with #2 now and I already am preping Daddy that he will have more midnight baby shifts... Babies need their mommies. But their mommies also need to be healthy and stable. Daddies and grandma's and aunts and such can also be loving caretakers (and always have been in times past... I love that Norman Rockwell painting of the baby wailing and the daddy singing in the middle of the night!). It is NOT CIO to allow your partner (or loving caregiver) to care for the baby, even if she cries. It is NOT CIO if you are caring for a baby and she cries anyway. It is NOT CIO to allow a baby to fuss a bit for a few minutes before rushing to get her (you all know the difference between a "Get me NOW!" cry and a "EH... I'm bored..." fuss). It is NOT CIO to require that the baby adjust some to you (babies can wait 5 minutes for you to eat something before you nurse... They won't perish!). CIO is a method of abandoning and ignoring cries to teach them some sort of independence or "break a habit". The AP response is NOT an idea that every cry must be met by you personally, to your own detriment, at the absolute second the first noise is uttered, and that all else must stop and be abandoned. It is merely a request to see and evaluate every cry and to try and have a loving adult see it as a way of communicating a need and addess that.

I think the CIO stuff is also the first stand we usually have to make. It can be hard to explain it to others and it really marks the first time we have to try and navigate the social world of parenting. How to tell someone who you really like or love that you fundamnetally disagree with how they are parenting and you will not do it? How to justify to yourself that you are going the right path when others "all" seem to say that you are "being silly"? But this is the first of many... Will we allow cake and tv for toddlers when the pressure is on? What about the "right" pre-school? Or homeschool? Find out NOW how to ignore the crowd







.


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## foxtrot (Jan 27, 2008)

RaeAnne,

I didn't read the whole thread, but I read a lot of the replies. The one thing that really didn't get answered too well from your original post is the question of what if it doesn't get better? What if I never like this?

I would have given ANYTHING for someone to have answered that for me when I had my DS. I suffered then and I am suffering now through the baby stage. My DS is 5. My DD is almost 7 months. I thought I could do this again, but I'm struggling a second time with the baby stage. I HATE it. I really truly HATE the baby stage. All I do is wish it away (and honestly I still don't care that I wished away DS's baby stage) and count the days until she is 2. I look back now and wonder if I should have had DD. I love her, but the life I had was so wonderful and now I'm starting all over.

So to give you hope, let me just assure you that it WILL absolutely get better. You WILL someday like being a mom. I can pretty much guarantee that. I don't know when it will change for you, but I can tell you my story and maybe that will give you some milestones to look to. That is all I really needed when DS was a baby and no one ever gave me any hope. All I heard was "it just gets harder as they get older" or "it doesn't get easier" or "enjoy it now, because when they are X age it's really hard". I can tell you that is total CRAP. My 5 year old DS is a walk in the park (easy, easy, easy) compared to DD. Really, anyone that says it gets harder must get really easy babies or something because for me it got easier and easier and easier and more and more fun with each passing month. DS can dress himself, feed himself, go potty by himself, play by himself (doesn't like to, but can), can go to a friend's house and play, is fun to talk to, is my buddy, companion, friend etc. I will miss him when he goes to kindergarten in the fall. That is how different things are now compared to when he was a baby.

So here is how it all changed for me. When he started walking things got easier because he stopped screaming so much and was happier as he could get to things and play with them. He was just way more content. He also started sleeping better once he was crawling, then walking. At 18 months he started saying words and this was the first HUGE breakthrough for me in enjoying motherhood. I kept a diary and I wrote that for the first time that there was a day I never wanted to end because I was so in love with him and had so much fun with him. We could communicate at that point albeit on a very basic level. Those types of days were still few and far between, but at least I had a day I loved being with him. By age 2 he was talking in sentences and we could communicate almost any basic concept to him. 2 was another huge breakthrough because I stopped dreading each day at that point. We could finally go places like playgrounds and actually have fun. He was eating all normal food by then. He knew what was going on in the world around him to some extent. By 2.5 I note in my diary that I never wanted him to turn 3. I wanted him to stay 2 forever. For me to write something like was another huge breakthrough. By 2.5 he was becoming a little kid and I LOVED that.

On his 3rd birthday I note in my diary that I cried because I didn't want him to turn 3. I didn't want him to grow up any further. This was from someone that wished away his first 2 years. Now I wanted him to stop growing up. Age 3.5 brought me some new freedoms in that he started preschool and for the first time I got 2.5 hours break 2 days a week. He started to play with other kids and live was beginning to return to "normal". I also note that in my diary. Naps stopped and we could finally be out and about all day at festivals or other events. There was really nothing we couldn't communicate to him at this point. He was becoming my friend and buddy. I loved life again and I loved being a mom.

By age 4 they are fabulous!! They are little people who participate fully in your world. I cooked with DS. I gardened with DS. He knows all the plants in my garden. He really could cook too! He was FUN! Then I did something stupid and got pregnant and now I'm starting all over and I should read my own post because right now I feel like it will be forever before I have a little girl instead of a baby. I'm hating the baby stage even more this time around because I know how much better life is once it's over. I'm not savoring it at all. I'm wishing it away more than I did with DS.

DS is 5 now and it just keeps getting better and better and YES easier every year. DO NOT listen to people that say it gets harder. Yes, there are challenges at every age, but I find the challenges easier to deal with as he gets older. The challenges I face with him now pale in comparison to the challenges with DD. Mostly because I can reason and communicate with him.

It's a LONG slow process and only by looking back will you see that each month it gets better. Right now I just want to get to the point where DD walks. Things will be better then. Then when she talks it will get better. And by age 2 I will stop counting days until she's X age. And by age 3 I will be enjoying life again because I'll have my little girl and the baby will be gone.

Is it PPD? I don't know. I think I just hate the baby stage. I never took anti-depressants with DS and all the depression lifted simply because he got older and I enjoy older kids more.

I just wanted to give you some hope because it seems most people out there will tell you it gets harder. But it doesn't.


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## PPK (Feb 15, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
You know what's hard about not going full-force with AP? I just don't fit in anywhere! I don't know anyone who thinks I shouldn't let her CIO. The parents I know on a more personal level are mainly parents I would not like to emulate. So I find AP... and people are going overboard here too. I just want absolutes.







I'm an idealist by nature, and I like to know what is coming next due to a tumultuous childhood. It's hard to "go with the flow."

RaeAnne

I agree with all of this.

As far as having a tumultuous childhood, I use that as a motivating force to work through (not repress) my anger and short temper so I don't explode in front of him. I want better for ds than what I had during my upbringing and I try to remind myself of that from time to time...I notice this helps me authentically want to treat him better. I still find myself being quick to anger and yelling, but working on it.

As far as the AP issue, I took an MDC break for a while and am not as interseted of late. I drove myself nuts during pregnancy and the early months from reading about all the issues. I understand now that it is in response to societies' rigid and detatched child rearing practices that it has come across so strongly...like a pendulum swing. Because of this extreme aproach by some, I found it was almost like replacing one dogmatic approach for another. I also really don't like labels such as AP (or any label for that matter)-they only serve to segregate and set up a dynamic of 'us and them'. Why can't we just be ourselves without having to attatch ourselves to something?

I hope that there comes a time where extrememes are subdued and we reach a more harmonious 'norm' of child raising including societal support, honor, and understanding towards mothers (and fathers).

I hope things are going at least a little better for you, please keep us posted!


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## Dena (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
You know, I always made a point to tell people I hated being pregnant because I wanted them to know it as okay to feel that way, if they happened to have the same experience. I'm going to start telling pregnant moms that it just might really suck for awhile.









Oh, and to the pp who said I shouldn't have to feel "grateful" for my c-section, I agree, but I actually do. What I DO feel p*ssed about, I just realized tonight, is that I believed the "natural birth is natural" crowd 100%, and "they" let me down. No, they didn't mean to, but it didn't happen for me. Now, those same people (SOME of them, not all) are saying a VBAC is no big deal, to advocate for my "rights," the medical community is only trying to oppress you... I want them to be right, but I know better this time, no matter how much I want them to be right. Now I have to worry about making a choice between putting myself at greater risk and never having a positive birth (repeat section) or putting my baby at greater risk and possibly having a dead/brain damaged child because I was advocating for my "rights" (VBAC). Shoot, maybe I'm not supposed to say that here. I'm just saying how I feel, obviously not everyone sees it this way. But THAT is what I feel angry about with my birth.

RaeAnne

I think the pp was me, and I think I may not have expressed it well. What I meant is pretty much what you are saying - not that you shouldn't feel grateful for your c-section, I would too, if that was what allowed you to have a healthy baby. All I meant is that just because you had a happy outcome doesn't mean you can't be angry that you had to go through what you had to go through, and that you will have the choices ahead of you in the future. Oh, and as to that, I think whatever puts you at peace is the right choice for a future birth, and I have talked to women who have had positive birth experiences with a c-section. Just my .02.

As for telling pg women it might suck for awhile, I had to laugh at that, because one of my perverse little things I like to do when we run into a pg couple during one of dd1's many little "episodes" is to say, "see what you are in for!" I know it is not nice, but seeing the look on their faces is pretty funny.







:


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## barose (Dec 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dena* 

As for telling pg women it might suck for awhile, I had to laugh at that, because one of my perverse little things I like to do when we run into a pg couple during one of dd1's many little "episodes" is to say, "see what you are in for!" I know it is not nice, but seeing the look on their faces is pretty funny.







:

Sorry to go OT here, but please consider that some of those couples bubbles you like to burst may just be hoping for a baby thats born healthy and alive.


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## zoshamosha (Apr 15, 2006)

...so many responses here! But I just wanted to say I agree completely with Foxtrot's post. I really didn't like the baby stage either, at least with my dd who was very high needs as well. She's now almost three and life with her is SOOOOO much better. Yes, there are challenges, but it is so much fun to be around her now.

I also have a new baby who has a completely different personality--he's so easy-going and it's fun to be with him too. Babies are all different, and some are just really hard to be around. A pp--I don't remember who--said it best. She said her baby just didn't like to be a baby. I think that's true for lots of high needs babies. They want to do stuff and hate being stuck in a baby body that can't fully function. It gets much better when they develop mobility and language, etc...


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## Dena (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *barose* 
Sorry to go OT here, but please consider that some of those couples bubbles you like to burst may just be hoping for a baby thats born healthy and alive.

I'm sorry if I offended you. Certainly I have been one of those moms with all three of my pregnancies, and, in fact, I didn't get my live baby in two of them. Even still, if someone had said something like that to me, I would have found it pretty funny. I guess we just all have different things that disturb us. Again, I wasn't trying to be offensive, to you or anyone else out there.


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## beru (Nov 19, 2007)

I relate to foxtrot's post. I have come to realize I just don't like babies. It should have occured to me earlier since I don't like to hold others' babies and I don't get excited to see babies. But I LOVE toddlers. I am in total agreement that it gets easier and funner. My 7 month old is going through a clingy phase. She needs ME, whereas previously, she was happy with daddy too. I am starting to resent her from keeping me away from my 3 year old.


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## saraann (Dec 1, 2006)

Parenting is by far without a doubt the hardest thing I have ever done. It's also by far without a doubt the most rewarding. I think you just have a high need baby and haven't seen as many of the rewards yet. Your bond will grow stronger with time.

Like a lot of PP I'm more of a toddler person, not so much a baby person. I'd guess this could be true for you as well. High need babies cry a lot, when they get older they still cry a lot but the crying is interspersed with lots of laughing and hugs and kisses and hilarious behavior. Hang in there mama.

Oh and about the not being AP enough. Most AP moms I know IRL are much more varied in their parenting then what you see on MDC. Go to LLL and meet some. Real life support is invaluable.


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## Lady Lilya (Jan 27, 2007)

I'm so glad for this thread.

It is tough when every second of your day is dictated by a little person who is unpleasant to be around. When the only thing that keeps you going is your momentum. When you are so consumed with trying to comfort the baby that there is no time left for anything pleasant, and no hope for it on the horizon. When you know that you wouldn't mind all the self-sacrifice if you could see that it was doing any good. But with the baby still crying all the time, you think all your effort was a waste.

But it does get better. DS is now 9 months old and crawling. He follows me from room to room and plays with things near where I stop to do things. Sometimes he gets distracted and crawls off -- forgetting about me for a little while. He laughs at the cats. He laughs when I play with him. He loves to sit on the floor with me and play with toys or read a book. When I sit on the couch, he stands up next to me and hangs off of me and dives in to kiss me.

I can recall a huge improvement when he was able to sit up, because then he could play with toys. And now another huge improvement as he learned to crawl, and then almost immediately after he learned to sit himself back up when he arrived to his destination. He is so much happier and independent now.

There is a lot more pleasantness now. Yet still he needs me to be focused on him a lot more than I currently have the energy to do. But I think my energy will bounce back as I heal from the drain I was experiencing before.

But anyway, there is nothing wrong with you for not liking it. It is unlikeable. How can you like forcing yourself to cuddle a being that makes ear-piercing screams? You only do it because you know on a logical level it is right, even though on a physical level you are repulsed. People with babies that draw them in can't understand that.

I have found that the best way to get through the unpleasant time is to try to find a mindset that makes the time pass faster. Tuning out to some degree, like letting your mind ponder over some kind of puzzle while you are rocking a screaming baby. Or imagine composing a post here or an e-mail to a friend where you are recounting to them what you are currently experiencing. In great detail.

I have also found it is a lot easier mentally when the baby has improved to a point where they are easier to comfort most of the time, so most of the time you know what to do at any given moment, even if you are too tired to do it, or don't think it should be done. Nothing is worse than not knowing what could help the baby to be happy. So, when I go to rock the baby to sleep and he starts screaming, I can say to myself that if I took him right now and helped him stand up on the window sill and look out, he would stop screaming and be happy. Or if I pretended I was eating his leg, he would laugh. I'm not going to do it because he needs to sleep, but I know how to stop the screaming if I can't take it anymore.

I know I am getting a lot more rest now. A lot more time for things like MDC. And a lot more time to devote to housework and cooking. I still feel just on the edge of being overwhelmed, but I think that is just because of my personality. As the baby gets easier, I take on more non-baby tasks around the house.

Anyway, I had better go join the baby in bed. He's been sleeping pretty decently the last 5 days, which is such a relief after 18 days straight of sleep crawling and having to get up and rock him every 30-120 minutes. Now I haven't gotten out of bed (except to go pee) all night from 9ish to 7ish for 5 nights in a row!


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## barose (Dec 6, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dena* 
I'm sorry if I offended you. Certainly I have been one of those moms with all three of my pregnancies, and, in fact, I didn't get my live baby in two of them. Even still, if someone had said something like that to me, I would have found it pretty funny. I guess we just all have different things that disturb us. Again, I wasn't trying to be offensive, to you or anyone else out there.

Sorry I took offense and took it out on you.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

barose, I saw your post and I couldn't find the words.







It seems so unfair that you don't have a hamster boy of your own to scream in your ear and puke in your hair and generally delight all available senses. He's still scrumptious though, just loud and smelly.


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## CorbinsMama (Jun 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jilian* 
Mama, I just read one of your other posts and see that you had a traumatic birth experience and your baby almost ended up with major surgery














We had a CVICU stay with DS2 and he had heart surgery for a heart defect. I dealt with a lot of post-traumatic stress for the first few months after he came home. It is very possible that you are dealing with it too.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I think this is at the heart of the matter. I'll tell you my story in the hope there is something that can help.

DD was born full term but tiny (4# 14 oz.). I had practically no amniotic fluid left and my placenta had failed (I was told later). She was born in an emergency c-section with a lack of oxygen and she aspirated meconium. Long story short, this led to her having seizures, a brain bleed, a collapsed lung, severe fluid retention, and couldn't breathe on her own. When she was three days old we were told she would be moderately brain damaged, but the next day we were told it might be not as bad as that. She ended up being in the NICU for a month on phenobarbital.

I ended up going on anti-depressants to help me through this period because of the stress involved, but also because I have a family history of depression. I did (and still do to some degree) have PTSD, but more importantly, so does DD and I'm willing to bet so do you and your DD.

DD cried and screamed for hours. I was so angry and frustrated. I sometimes feared I would snap and hurt her just to shut her up, but I had to remind myself of everything that happened to her and what was done to her medically (necessary, but still aggressive). I worked hard to have this baby. She is an IVF baby, which took two cycles to conceive. I went through so much physical and emotional pain to get her here, so I felt awful for having such dark thoughts about her.

I met a wonderful lactation consultant who suggested we both take some Bach Flower Remedies to help with the PTSD in both of us. The first time I used them, it was in a bath for us both; we both cried with the emotional release. The LC also sent us to a chiro for cranioacral work and a homeopath for a constitutional remedy for DD. These two things have made an incredible difference in her life -- her disposition, her development, her comfort level.

My DD wasn't even in this world. It was like she was totally out of touch with her surroundings; she was kind of unreachable, if that makes any sense. Perhaps there is something like this going on with your DD.

If you can do one thing, I would suggest taking her to a good chiropractor who does craniosacral work in babies.

I hope something I have said here will help you.


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## richella (Nov 30, 2004)

Okay, I figured so many people had posted, I didn't need to, but I've been thinking about you a lot and didn't see these 2 things yet.

1) Excuse me if this is presumptuous, but it sounds to me like you have some self-esteem issues. There's lots that could be said about that, but I'll just talk about the surgical birth. IMO a cesarian can do a number on your self-esteem. Birth is something you think you can do all your life, and find out suddenly at such an important time that (for whatever reasons) you can't. I felt in the moment that it was totally necessary, and the best choice I could make, but still it was a big loss to me. I had so many ideas about what causes c/s and I was sure none of them would apply to me. I thought I was educated and assertive and intuitive and in good physical condition. Etc. So even though I never doubted my choice (until later), I don't think it's a coincidence that immediately after the birth, lasting for several months, suddenly I was completely incompetent to do anything right. I was sure that everything I did my husband corrected (not sure about that now), and it was so hurtful to me, but at the same time it looked as if he were totally right about it all, so I would say, fine, I can't do it, it's your job now. Until the only things I did were bfeed, laundry, and washing dishes. I was disgusted with myself for being so helpless. Looking back, the things I was thinking about myself could well have applied to my feelings about having a cesarian. I totally believe that c/s can be a major factor in ppd.

And one other thing about surgery. Whenever you have a surgery, it can activate any previous traumas you may be carrying in that part of your body. It comes up suddenly, but use of anesthesia inhibits the healing process at the same time. (Look into psychoneuroimmunology if you want details on that.)

2) And here's yet another angle on ppd. When I was at my worst, I thought, it would be abnormal for anyone to be living my life and NOT be depressed. I thought, I don't need to medicate this away, I need to change my life. But also I felt so worthless and helpless that I didn't even want to live. The only reason I had to live was that I was totally committed to being the best possible mom to my baby. I had an irrational fear that I would die. Skipping some details, what helped me was Bach Flower Essences. (I didn't have insurance or any money.) I used Cherry Plum for fear of losing control of oneself and Crabapple for self-loathing. Within 2 weeks of using the essences several times/day I looked back and could not believe I had been so far over the edge and didn't even know it. I still needed to make changes, but I could be so much more calm and rational, even hopeful, about it. It wasn't until then that I acknowledged that I really did have ppd. It was never diagnosed. If I were doing it over again, I think I might just find some psychiatric help, but the flower essences, while not a substitute, got me through.

Second birth, vbac (fwiw), I ate the placenta, which was a pretty repulsive idea to me, but more powerful than the flower essences, and I would do it again in a heartbeat, and recommend it to anybody having a baby.

Wishing you peace and joyful motherhood.


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## milkybean (Mar 19, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *richella* 
IMO a cesarian can do a number on your self-esteem.

I totally believe that c/s can be a major factor in ppd.

I've read the first and last pages. I've been having some issues recently with the subject, so won't read the middle, so if what I say doesn't fit just realize I haven't read the middle of the thread.

I soooooo agree with what I quoted.

Except I don't call it PPD when you're dealing with the aftermath of major abdominal surgery, I call it, well, the aftermath of dealing with major abdominal surgery.

When a friend of mine had major abdominal surgery but was NOT handed a baby afterwards (it was not a baby type of surgery), she got morphine for a week (with a clicker!), she was in the hospital for 2 weeks, she was cared for in every single way, didn't have to do anything. Once she got home she and her husband bought her a special chair to sleep in, and if he had been a kinder husband (she found out about 9 months later that he was just about to leave her when she got so sick, so he was NOT being kind) she wouldn't have had to lift a finger.

She did not end up with major depression issues.

Let's compare that to what happens when we have baby-related major abdominal surgery!

I had a LOT of rage, just pure unadulterated RAGE, after my ridiculous nonsensical just-because-it's-almost-Memorial-Day-weekend (oh but they didn't remind me of the weekend coming up) surgery. Unlike the OP I didn't feel it towards DS, but towards the adults around me that helped cause it to happen (including myself). I put everything towards DS and was a dictator in my home (luckily the non-hired adults around me knew they had a big part in it, and were willing to do my bidding without complaint) for quite awhile.

That isn't to say I didn't ever get angry about DS. My stuff happened around the same time that Brooke Shields first kid arrived, and when she came out with her book talking about how PPD was all about thinking bad thoughts and thinking about doing bad things...I thought "what is she talking about? I have felt that way and EVERY LAST ONE OF MY FRIENDS has confessed to having rotten thoughts when their babies were little". What BS described as PPD I knew as NORMAL. Now my friends confessed these things to me in secret, in near whispers (didn't help that one friend was going through those issues as Andrea Yates became known to the world), but I had enough, varied friends telling me these things (and these were friends who wouldn't feel a stigma in getting a diagnosis and taking a pill) that I take it to be normal.

You just don't want to DO the things you think of.

Anyway, if you're having anger issues and you think it might be related to the surgery, be sure to talk to people about it. Even if you're not interested in thinking about VBAC right now, you can get really good support for the things you ARE feeling on the ICAN boards. I probably wouldn't be married still if I hadn't been able to talk there, whenever and about whatever. Hubby's been VERY good about hearing me, mourning with me, raging with me and so on, but he's not available 24/7, not if I want him to stay healthy and be productive at work. And sometimes I want to feel my feelings, and not say things that make him feel his feelings...sometimes I want to be the only one crying, ya know?

Surgery disrupts everything about our bodies. Babies disrupt everything about our lives. It's not a surprise that we can have huge reactions, not always positive, when we've had both in one day.

Just read the rest of richella's post, and she mentions Bach's flower essences. I haven't tried anything but the Rescue Remedy, but I gotta say, RR is incredible. (ironically, my midwives tried to FORCE it on me, but since THEY were the ones causing panic attacks and mega-anger in me, I felt it rather presumptive that they were trying to give it to me (they had given me several herbs during my labor that had the opposite effect...I did NOT trust them at all anymore)...I had never had it before...once I finally had it more than a year later, I mourned and mourned that I hadn't taken it, calmed down, and fired them...RR is amazing) It can really help center you and calm you, but not in an obvious way. It's amazing stuff.


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## Greenmama2AJ (Jan 10, 2008)

RaeAnne - I haven't read the other posts so excuse me if I repeat.

But honestly - you should listen to the bull crap about PPD.
You have it.
Dont make up some excuse about it being bullshit because you dont want to believe that being a mommy can cause mental illness. Are you married to Tom Cruise? If not then believe me - it exists. Its not in your head. It can last a long flippin' time without help.

It's not normal to hate being a parent but it IS common to feel overwhelmed, frustrated and just plain pi$$ed off that your life has changed.

My closest ff had undiagnosed ppd for over a year. She says she felt like she wasted the first year of her babys life. I remember her telling me how she hated being a parent. She thought her baby was ugly and a pain in the a$$. I fobbed it off and I really wished I had listened more. Life turned a corner at 2 yrs.

You need to get help now because this anger will translate across to your kid. Soon they'll be old enough to feel how much you "hate" being their mom. Thats not fair on anyone.

Best of luck on your journey.


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## valkyrina (Dec 18, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
:

Oh, and to the pp who said I shouldn't have to feel "grateful" for my c-section, I agree, but I actually do. What I DO feel p*ssed about, I just realized tonight, is that I believed the "natural birth is natural" crowd 100%, and "they" let me down. No, they didn't mean to, but it didn't happen for me. Now, those same people (SOME of them, not all) are saying a VBAC is no big deal, to advocate for my "rights," the medical community is only trying to oppress you... I want them to be right, but I know better this time, no matter how much I want them to be right. Now I have to worry about making a choice between putting myself at greater risk and never having a positive birth (repeat section) or putting my baby at greater risk and possibly having a dead/brain damaged child because I was advocating for my "rights" (VBAC). Shoot, maybe I'm not supposed to say that here. I'm just saying how I feel, obviously not everyone sees it this way. But THAT is what I feel angry about with my birth.

RaeAnne

I so completely agree. I want to have a VBAC, and all of the crunchy-granola people that I know are very much like, "Yeah, you should totally do it!", and everyone I know who works in the medical profession just tells me it's not possible. But I feel like my boys and I missed out on something really big and important. And if one more person tells me :"Well, at least they're all right. That's all that matters.", I think I will bludgeon THEM to death with the hardbound edition of a Dr. Sears book. DUH. OF COURSE, thank god they are all right. And that is the most important thing. But it's not ALL that matters.

I want my vaginal birth, dammit!

But I don't want to be endangering myself and my (potential future) baby. I feel like its' so all-or-nothing, and the mixed messages are horrible. Good for you for saying all of this that most of us are afraid to say. No one understands except other mothers.


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## lnitti (Jun 14, 2004)

I haven't read much of the posts - just the OP and a couple others.

I have to tell you my dd is 8 months old and i have a 4 year old, and there are many many nights recently that I could have written the OP. And I'm scared. I have no patience any more, I've yelled at my kids. I've even yelled at the baby to "Shut the hell and up and f'ing go to sleep". Not proud of this at all. Then in a bit of sanity, I remind myself that at least I have her. My sister's baby died just days before her scheduled c-section in December. But I still don't know what to do to curb my anger/frustration/helplessness/etc.


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## PPK (Feb 15, 2007)

I also recommend flower essences. I use Bach and FES brands. FES (Flower Essence Society) has a great book called Flower Essence Repertory:

http://www.amazon.com/Flower-Essence.../dp/0963130617

It helps you self diagnose and select the appropriate essence or make a combo bottle. It contains all of Bach's essences and FES's expanded selection.

I found Mariposa Lily to help alot (for feelings of mothering, compassion, connection to Divine Mother). I also gave ds some of Mariposa Lily and some Evening Primrose flower essence for any impact of negative feelings from mother (me), such as neglect, unwanted, etc..also, Impatiens flower essence...so good for helping with patience. For ds I just gave a drop two times a day.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

lnitti, you just did it. You wrote the words that say "I have a problem." That's the first step.

How can we help you go from here? Do you want us to listen, or to help you problem-solve?


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## Bad Horse (Mar 17, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
For a while, I was actually mad at MDC







. I felt like I could never "be" what "MDC" wanted or what it was. Then, I started to really SEE it as a big mix of individuals. There are something like 50,000 people on here!

Ha! You know, this reminds me of how I used to feel. I used to HATE MDC back "in the day" when I would mostly lurk after my first was born.
All these uber crunchy AP moms, and all I thought I would get would be judgment







That's funny to me now!

Anyway... Coming back here to MDC it never struck me as any of those things, which is funny. I think it must totally be MY perspective that has changed. I feel totally fine coming here and yapping my big mouth about whatever I feel on something and I don't worry about judgment. (I realize that unless it's inflammatory or something I don't have much info on, people who don't agree are going to walk on by, yk?)
I don't think the types of people who hang out here have changed hugely
over the last several years, I think it was me. And I have changed in my ideals and parenting style tremendously over the years that isn't nearly as crunchy as I was back with my first!
ANYWAY, my point is! Yes, I do have one! Seriously, just about every single person who has responded to you has done so from a place of NON judgment and concern and empathy and sympathy and understanding.

It took me a long time to see that about MDC, after returning many years later and getting a bit of perspective and more confidence in my OWN needs as a parent (I always worried about the things I am doing or not doing "the right way").

Anyway, RaeAnne, still thinking about you, hoping just being able to talk here is making things easier. Being trapped by a baby SUCKS. BTDT. Take care of YOU first. Always. And I am glad you are able to read this and take what's useful and leave the rest. That's important! And I hope you never feel like you have to defend yourself about it.
I was one of the people who mentioned PPD, because of my own experiences. Just as my own perspective. My biggest feeling in all of it was that it was impossible to see the forest for the trees while I was in it. That's why I said what I did.
I can't know your experience, nor do I pretend to, I just have my own experience that your words automatically filter through, yk?
So when someone else asks if I ever felt like that as a parent, my answer is yes and here is my experience, though it may not be yours.

Best to you, hugs to you.
I support you however you know it to be best to cope with your situation.

xoxo


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Thought this was relevant to this thread:

Deep into Sleep from Harvard Magazine.


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## tex.mom (Jun 30, 2006)

I didn't read the other responses yet and this can be my standard response due to my own experience but, have you considered sensory issues? When my first dd came along, I thought I would die. Literally. I couldn't take care of myself and wasn't really eating or sleeping (or showering, or...) so I thought dh would come home from work and find me lying on the floor one day, or else find a note saying that I had finally flipped my basket and taken off. People were kinda mean and judgemental toward me, but what I eventually decided is that there are two categories out there--people who have sensory kids and/or kids with special/high needs and thus "get it," and those who don't (have them, or get it). Your comment about the pacifier reminds me of dd--nursing was never fun with her, it was too much closeness for her most of the time, but a pacifier was absolutely required to get any (though it was little) sleep.

A diagnosis and OT helped us, and just meeting other parents of sensory kids. Maybe your situation is totally different but I always feel the need to put it out there because I wish someone had told me, before she was nearly 18 mos.!


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## mytwogirls (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greenmama2AJ* 
RaeAnne - I haven't read the other posts so excuse me if I repeat.

But honestly - you should listen to the bull crap about PPD.
You have it.
Dont make up some excuse about it being bullshit because you dont want to believe that being a mommy can cause mental illness. Are you married to Tom Cruise? If not then believe me - it exists. Its not in your head. It can last a long flippin' time without help.

It's not normal to hate being a parent but it IS common to feel overwhelmed, frustrated and just plain pi$$ed off that your life has changed.

My closest ff had undiagnosed ppd for over a year. She says she felt like she wasted the first year of her babys life. I remember her telling me how she hated being a parent. She thought her baby was ugly and a pain in the a$$. I fobbed it off and I really wished I had listened more. Life turned a corner at 2 yrs.

You need to get help now because this anger will translate across to your kid. Soon they'll be old enough to feel how much you "hate" being their mom. Thats not fair on anyone.

Best of luck on your journey.

This is the best advice I have heard so far. I MYSELF said those same words with my first "I hate being a mom" and I felt so ashamed for it. I thought of the moms who lost their little ones and how lucky I should I feel. Those feelings left as soon as the kid started crying or I felt flushed and overwhelmed. I was diagnosed PPD from my OB and I sought help from a therapist. I got lucky and got a very good therapist from a referral from my OB. She was great. (She even came to see me after my second daughter was born) You need to get help. This is not bull crap it is not in your head. You NEED help. Please get it. I wish I could be there to help and hold your hand or whatever. Please do it for yourself and your baby.


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## keeptryst (Jan 12, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
My labor and delivery did not go the way I had planned it to go. It totally did not conform to all that positive happy thinking meditation crapola I did while pregnant. My anger post labor was focused more on the people and marketing that led me to believe I could control the outcome with happy thoughts, that I could force my body to do what I commanded it to.

I've since decided trying to control labor is like trying to tell the ocean what to do. It is a force of nature unto itself. If I have another child, I am not going to worry about it. What happens, happens. So long as my decisions are informed and everyone is healthy, I'm good.

I've made it a personal rule to never allow myself to cave to momma's guilt because it's crippling and destructive. If I did my best, then that's enough and it's all I have to give. I can't be perfect. I can't avoid failure. I can't do it right all the time. All I can do is love my child and make the best decisions I can with the information I have.

Perfection is a zero sum game. You always lose. So I refuse to play.

V

That's a very sane and balanced lesson you've taken away from your experience (my birth experience was not what I'd hoped for either, but I think I'm humbler and wiser because of it). Thanks for sharing that great piece of wisdom!


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

Voltaire said "The perfect is the enemy of the good."

None of us will be perfect but almost all of us can be good- even great- moms. Striving to always be perfect, have the perfect birth, etc. is a complete obstacle to being and doing great things, as perfect is never achievable. Once you get so obssessed with "perfect", you can forget how amazing good can be. Perfect is one flavor, one dimention, boring even. Good (or even great) is a world of freedom and possibility.


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## CorbinsMama (Jun 29, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jenrose9* 
found Mariposa Lily to help alot (for feelings of mothering, compassion, connection to Divine Mother). I also gave ds some of Mariposa Lily and some Evening Primrose flower essence for any impact of negative feelings from mother (me), such as neglect, unwanted, etc..also, Impatiens flower essence...so good for helping with patience. For ds I just gave a drop two times a day.

I think I might need some Marpiosa Lily myself.

I gave DD Aspen (for fear), Star of Bethlehem (for comfort), Walnut (protection from outside influences), Wild Rose (for apathy, to awaken interest in life), Olive (for mental and physical exhaustion), and Clematis (to be more present in reality). I took Pine for guilt.


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## TranscendentalMom (Jun 28, 2002)

I haven't read all the other posts...but just want to add...as a mom of a 5 and almost 3 year old that it gets so much EASIER not the other way around. My 2nd was a very colicky baby (actually I discovered she had a milk allergy when she was 4 mos) She cried a lot and I did have some fantasies about hurting her. When that happened, I put her somewhere safe, walked outside and counted to 10.

Anyway, I think babies are so cute and sweet but honestly, I didn't enjoy having one all that much...it just took so much out of me. I did enjoy nursing them but in general, I much prefer toddlers and older kids. IT GETS SO MUCH EASIER!


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## OTMomma (Aug 12, 2003)

My first was a high needs baby- it was very hard. We had a baby swing, and she really liked it, so when I had had all I could take, I'd put her in the swing and I'd call my mom or someone and talk to them, she would hear me talking calmly (and I could be calm for someone else besides my baby) and she would fall asleep in the swing. Not super wonder AP parenting- but it got us through.

I agree with the pp who said you should consider seeing an OT for sensory issues with your dd. I also agree you should seriously consider seeing someone to rule out PPD- even with a high needs baby your feelings are very extreem.

Things will get easier. My dd has always been high needs, and I guess always will be. Parenting her has never, and will never be like my friends who have "easy" children. But she herself has gotten easier the older she has gotten- 4 ROCKED! At 4 parenting suddenly became so much less work and so much more joy!

I hope you find someone to watch the baby so you can get a nap.

Peace,


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## RTT (Oct 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TranscendentalMom* 
I haven't read all the other posts...but just want to add...as a mom of a 5 and almost 3 year old that it gets so much EASIER not the other way around. My 2nd was a very colicky baby (actually I discovered she had a milk allergy when she was 4 mos) She cried a lot and I did have some fantasies about hurting her. When that happened, I put her somewhere safe, walked outside and counted to 10.

Anyway, I think babies are so cute and sweet but honestly, I didn't enjoy having one all that much...it just took so much out of me. I did enjoy nursing them but in general, I much prefer toddlers and older kids. IT GETS SO MUCH EASIER!

You know, this is nice to hear. Anytime I've asked if it gets easier I always get "No, the challenges are just different!" But I want to believe that as challenging as older kids can be there is still something easier about a child who can communicate what they need as opposed to an infant who can only cry when they need something.


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## Bad Horse (Mar 17, 2008)

I also think it gets easier! Not until they're about 3 for me, though. Ha.

I don't mind little babies before they are mobile, but mine weren't colicky or high needs. Once they're mobile, if they're into EVERYTHING like my 2nd, wow, that can be tough.(my 2nd started crawling before 6 mos and walking/running at 8, and climbed on and over everything, including baby gates well before a year!) But now, at 8 & 6? They are EASY and wonderful and I LOVE these ages.

Sometimes I am scared about starting over with another one, going through that toddler stage again, but I know it WILL be easier this time for many many reasons.

But yes, it DOES get easier. Sure the challenges can be different, but there's no comparison to the first year or two.


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## Dena (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RTT* 
You know, this is nice to hear. Anytime I've asked if it gets easier I always get "No, the challenges are just different!" But I want to believe that as challenging as older kids can be there is still something easier about a child who can communicate what they need as opposed to an infant who can only cry when they need something.

Well, for us, the challenges have been different - my older daughter is one to test test test the limits. And she can be VERY strong willed and defiant and dramatic. But yeah, since she started talking, and could communicate just what she was crying about, that part got easier, because so often I realized it had absolutely nothing to do with me or anything within my control. Maybe the cat ran away, or it was cloudy instead of sunny, or we were having dinner when it was still light out, or it wasn't morning yet... the list kinda goes on...but it is easier to detach when it really isn't about you, iykwim.


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## OTMomma (Aug 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dena* 
Well, for us, the challenges have been different - my older daughter is one to test test test the limits. And she can be VERY strong willed and defiant and dramatic. But yeah, since she started talking, and could communicate just what she was crying about, that part got easier, because so often I realized it had absolutely nothing to do with me or anything within my control. Maybe the cat ran away, or it was cloudy instead of sunny, or we were having dinner when it was still light out, or it wasn't morning yet... the list kinda goes on...but it is easier to detach when it really isn't about you, iykwim.

Yeah, communication is the first step toward it being easier- the really great moment is when they suddenly seem to develope some level of common sense (for us around 3-4), where they understand "Oh, its cold, I should wear a coat", and put on a coat without any fits, tantrums or arguements. I remember fighting with dd for what seemed her whole life to do basic things like that, then one day she said, "Its cold, I need a coat" and went to get one, I felt like a mirical had occurred.









BTW- my second child is a MUCH easier child, thank heaven. My entire pregnancy with him I prayed for a "laid back" child, because I felt another high needs one might put me over the edge.


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## Lily Eve (Feb 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Greenmama2AJ* 
RaeAnne - I haven't read the other posts so excuse me if I repeat.

But honestly - you should listen to the bull crap about PPD.
You have it.
Dont make up some excuse about it being bullshit because you dont want to believe that being a mommy can cause mental illness. Are you married to Tom Cruise? If not then believe me - it exists. Its not in your head. It can last a long flippin' time without help.

It's not normal to hate being a parent but it IS common to feel overwhelmed, frustrated and just plain pi$$ed off that your life has changed.

My closest ff had undiagnosed ppd for over a year. She says she felt like she wasted the first year of her babys life. I remember her telling me how she hated being a parent. She thought her baby was ugly and a pain in the a$$. I fobbed it off and I really wished I had listened more. Life turned a corner at 2 yrs.

You need to get help now because this anger will translate across to your kid. Soon they'll be old enough to feel how much you "hate" being their mom. Thats not fair on anyone.

Best of luck on your journey.

Yep. Totally agree with this. Everyone gets annoyed from time to time, but it's not normal at all to hate parenting in the way that's been expressed in this thread.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

If it's not normal at all to hate parenting then why is there such a wealth of experience? There's two differing choruses of voices- ones which say yes, I felt like that, I asked for help, for medication and I felt different- and the voices that said yes, I've been there too. I think it's OK to hate my new life as a parent, because it's hard, and I'm underappreciated, and I'm pretty sure that it's not meant to be this way. For what it's worth, I'm in both camps. I believe that before RaeAnne started this thread she was aware of the existence of PPD, she had considered the possibility that she was suffering from it and decided that no, she's not ill. She's living under chronic stress. I've survived post-natal depression, and I've been through some very dark times when I have hated parenting, but have still loved life.

You know what really terrifies me? That we go on buying into the myth that we should be so happy that we have our small babies, that we shouldn't allow any of the dark feelings into our souls and we should just keep it permanently happy and joyful. So we bottle it up (whilst lacking in social support, surviving major abdominal surgery where relevant and struggling with breastfeeding as appropriate) and take the pills. So what happens when your daughters become mothers? What's society going to be like in 20 years time if we accept these conditions and adjust ourselves to fit the role, rather than the other way around????


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## WyattsMom2008 (May 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MeepyCat* 
AP is not the only way to parent. It is, in fact,
highly historically unusual. Even in cultures where babywearing and on-demand nursing are standard, they don't carry it to the extreme that the AP books suggest. Also, I agree, you cannot prevent your child from ever crying.

Really? Could you elaborate? I thought AP was the historical norm. That's what I've been telling dh whenever he questions what I do and worries I'm spoiling our 3 month old (who is our first). I've been telling him that history, science and mommy instincts all back up what I do, and the other school of parenting has nothing going for it but a few self-proclaimed expert opinions. I keep thinking of the studies about how, when babies cry, their bodies flood with stress hormones. I tell him this over and over.


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## anitaj71 (Mar 1, 2006)

Flapjack, yes yes to all that you've said . . . I think I will just follow you around and qoute you . . .


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks, Anita.

Wyattsmom, the most crucial difference is that mothers would not have been abandoned. In a traditional society, you and your daughter would be babymooning (call it what you will) until she was 6 weeks old, which seems to be a typical age- the cessation of lochia, the first laughs or smiles, all of this seems to be a common pattern. Then there would be a community around you to love and to support you, to take the screaming baby from your arms and give her and you some safety to pull you back from the verge of those dark feelings, to nurse you through your childs first illness, to tell you that yes, some days you get nothing done.
A lot of AP writing is centred around the Continuum Concept- the problem is that Jean Liedloff was not a parent, and was not writing a parenting book. She was writing an anthropological study and put forward a hypothesis- that those babies cried less because they were in arms. How do you run a scientific study proving or disproving this, though? My little walking, talking (or sitting, bubbling) masses of contradictions defy description most of the time.
Do the best you can. That's all anyone can do.


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## Violet2 (Apr 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
If it's not normal at all to hate parenting then why is there such a wealth of experience? There's two differing choruses of voices- ones which say yes, I felt like that, I asked for help, for medication and I felt different- and the voices that said yes, I've been there too. I think it's OK to hate my new life as a parent, because it's hard, and I'm underappreciated, and I'm pretty sure that it's not meant to be this way. For what it's worth, I'm in both camps. I believe that before RaeAnne started this thread she was aware of the existence of PPD, she had considered the possibility that she was suffering from it and decided that no, she's not ill. She's living under chronic stress. I've survived post-natal depression, and I've been through some very dark times when I have hated parenting, but have still loved life.

You know what really terrifies me? That we go on buying into the myth that we should be so happy that we have our small babies, that we shouldn't allow any of the dark feelings into our souls and we should just keep it permanently happy and joyful. So we bottle it up (whilst lacking in social support, surviving major abdominal surgery where relevant and struggling with breastfeeding as appropriate) and take the pills. So what happens when your daughters become mothers? What's society going to be like in 20 years time if we accept these conditions and adjust ourselves to fit the role, rather than the other way around????

YES! You nailed it!

And what's funny is my DD gets on DH's nerves and he'll come to me sometimes and say, "I'm glad you're home, I was about to sell DD on Ebay." And I've had to invervene and takeover when he's about lost it.

And he's super patient and not hormonal (at least not like us mommas allegedly are) and _he_ can't even keep it together sometimes. So when I have a hard time and everyone rushes to say PPD it devalues my experience and my struggle to define the role of momma for myself. My DH doesn't get any flak other than 'sometimes babies are hard'. What an interesting dichotomy, no?

Of course PPD is a valid experience too, but why can't we talk about how difficult motherhood can be without muddying the waters with PPD? Because PPD doesn't change the fact that we aren't getting enough sleep, that our babies are more demanding than we imagined, that nursing is flipping difficult, and that we have absolutely no control over anything anymore. Aside from the rare exception, we aren't able to be the mothers we imagined ourselves to be because the baby and/or our circumstance didn't read that particular memo! And sometimes that really stings!

V


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## Dena (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Violet2* 
Of course PPD is a valid experience too, but why can't we talk about how difficult motherhood can be without muddying the waters with PPD? Because PPD doesn't change the fact that we aren't getting enough sleep, that our babies are more demanding than we imagined, that nursing is flipping difficult, and that we have absolutely no control over anything anymore. Aside from the rare exception, we aren't able to be the mothers we imagined ourselves to be because the baby and/or our circumstance didn't read that particular memo! And sometimes that really stings!

V

Ok, THIS makes sense to me. Yes, I would agree that not everything is ppd, but I would also stress that only a health care professional can make that call. Sadly, many professionals, I guess, will be quick to judge - sort of like the docs that will give your kid ritalin simply because she is spirited (*shudder*).

That said, I do think there are professionals out there who can and will make a fair assessment, and who will not necessarily jump to medications. Naturopaths, craniosacral therapists, and chiropractors all come to mind, as well as traditional psychologists (not psychiatrists, who, imo, are all about the drugs, but a psychologist who will be more reliant on talk therapy and natural remedies).

But it angers me too that so many doctors are so quick with the prescription pad these days. (A line from a Patty Larkin song comes to mind: "Don't believe those pills will make me feel loved by everyone.")


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## foxtrot (Jan 27, 2008)

My doctor was one that just wrote a prescription for Zoloft. He didn't ask any questions. I went in, got about 5 minutes of his time during which I told him I was having anxiety attacks and he wrote a prescription for Zoloft and I left. That was it. I wasn't willing to accept that so I found a therapist which was exceedingly difficult. I only found one therapist that would see me on a weekend and in a timely manner. All the others couldn't book me an appointment for 3 months! The therapist determined that I did not have PPD as such, but just general depression from a combination of my personality and having a baby.

What does that mean? I don't even know. But I really think that a lot of women are being told they have PPD when in fact, this is life. There are times in life that are really REALLY hard and many of us aren't used to life that is hard and not in our control anymore. So why isn't it okay to say that life with a baby is really REALLY hard for some people with personalities like mine without it being PPD. Everything I read about PPD says that it's really hard to overcome by yourself, yet I felt the same way as I feel now with my older son and it disappeared by the time he was 2.5. Why? Because I LOVE toddlers and kids that can speak/walk/go out and about and do things with. I love it when I can have a conversation with my child and can connect with them in that way. I can't do that with a baby and that creates intense anxiety for me. Maybe it doesn't for other people, but is that necessarily PPD?

Sorry to get off on a tangent, but I really agree with the last post.


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## WyattsMom2008 (May 9, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Wyattsmom, the most crucial difference is that mothers would not have been abandoned. In a traditional society, you and your daughter would be babymooning (call it what you will) until she was 6 weeks old, which seems to be a typical age- the cessation of lochia, the first laughs or smiles, all of this seems to be a common pattern. Then there would be a community around you to love and to support you, to take the screaming baby from your arms and give her and you some safety to pull you back from the verge of those dark feelings, to nurse you through your childs first illness, to tell you that yes, some days you get nothing done.
A lot of AP writing is centred around the Continuum Concept- the problem is that Jean Liedloff was not a parent, and was not writing a parenting book. She was writing an anthropological study and put forward a hypothesis- that those babies cried less because they were in arms. How do you run a scientific study proving or disproving this, though? My little walking, talking (or sitting, bubbling) masses of contradictions defy description most of the time.
Do the best you can. That's all anyone can do.

The dilemma is that a baby needs a happy mommy and daddy. How to balance while still keeping the fussies at bay at all times? That's my conflict. I've concluded it's hard doing AP in our culture, with no help, no experience and no role models.


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## OTMomma (Aug 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WyattsMom2008* 
Really? Could you elaborate? I thought AP was the historical norm. That's what I've been telling dh whenever he questions what I do and worries I'm spoiling our 3 month old (who is our first). I've been telling him that history, science and mommy instincts all back up what I do, and the other school of parenting has nothing going for it but a few self-proclaimed expert opinions. I keep thinking of the studies about how, when babies cry, their bodies flood with stress hormones. I tell him this over and over.

WyattsMom- (Not Meepy Cat here,but your post caught my attention) you are totally right that for a 3 month old, AP is the only parenting "theory" that makes sense. The other parenting "theories" don't even have that going for them. However, parents parented their kids for a long long time without any parenting experts, theories, or scientific studies, they did what worked for them and their child, following mommy instincts (as you called it) and grandma wisdom. I personally think AP proponets sometimes go too far declairing that things like stollers, baby swings, and bouncy seats are "evil", they can be misused just as anything else can, but that doesn't mean a good loving parent can't use them appropriatly.

I personally also felt betrayed by the AP books and proponets when my dd was little. She was a really difficult baby, and the AP stuff made me feel like it was my fault if she cried a lot (in arms) or didn't sleep well. That I just hadn't loved her enough. That was crazy. She was a high needs baby and I was a good mommy, and I wasn't parenting "wrong" because my parenting experience wasn't textbook perfect.


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## Dena (May 29, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OTMomma* 
WyattsMom- (Not Meepy Cat here,but your post caught my attention) you are totally right that for a 3 month old, AP is the only parenting "theory" that makes sense. The other parenting "theories" don't even have that going for them. However, parents parented their kids for a long long time without any parenting experts, theories, or scientific studies, they did what worked for them and their child, following mommy instincts (as you called it) and grandma wisdom. I personally think AP proponets sometimes go too far declairing that things like stollers, baby swings, and bouncy seats are "evil", they can be misused just as anything else can, but that doesn't mean a good loving parent can't use them appropriatly.

I personally also felt betrayed by the AP books and proponets when my dd was little. She was a really difficult baby, and the AP stuff made me feel like it was my fault if she cried a lot (in arms) or didn't sleep well. That I just hadn't loved her enough. That was crazy. She was a high needs baby and I was a good mommy, and I wasn't parenting "wrong" because my parenting experience wasn't textbook perfect.









:

There were times I personally wanted to smack Dr. Sears upside the head myself, particularly when I read all his raves about how babies should NEVER be set down for the first NINE months of life, how this is done this way in other cultures, how it is best for baby, etc. (again, failing to recognize that in other cultures there is a whole group of women supporting the mom and the babies get passed around. Not to mention I kinda think their housework/cooking, etc. is a little different than ours.) So then I felt an insane amount of guilt not only when dd1 cried, which was often, but when she was happy when she wasn't being held by me.

Finally, it dawned on me that this man was only home probably a couple of hours a day while his kids were awake, and likely was never trying to cook, do housework, etc., with a baby in a sling, which is next to impossible. Believe me, I tried. I would lay money on Mrs. Sears putting the kids down while she cleaned bathrooms.


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## OTMomma (Aug 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dena* 
I would lay money on Mrs. Sears putting the kids down while she cleaned bathrooms.


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## foxtrot (Jan 27, 2008)

And I will say this as well. AP worked a whole lot easier and better with my first child. When I had my second there have been times she just has to cry. I put her in the Moby for the first few months, but once she wanted to be out of there (and she did) there are times I can't get to her. I have to get DS's lunch or I have to take DS to pre-K or I have to make time to play with DS because DD only naps for 20 minutes at a time. AP is much harder to implement with 2 children that is for sure. And I also have felt like a failure because DD WANTS to be out of the Moby now. She doesn't want to be carried all the time.

Just in the last few weeks I've finally given up some of my AP ideals because it's just not possible and I was making myself crazy with 2 children both needing me at the same time.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *foxtrot* 
And I will say this as well. AP worked a whole lot easier and better with my first child. When I had my second there have been times she just has to cry. I put her in the Moby for the first few months, but once she wanted to be out of there (and she did) there are times I can't get to her. I have to get DS's lunch or I have to take DS to pre-K or I have to make time to play with DS because DD only naps for 20 minutes at a time. AP is much harder to implement with 2 children that is for sure. And I also have felt like a failure because DD WANTS to be out of the Moby now. She doesn't want to be carried all the time.

Just in the last few weeks I've finally given up some of my AP ideals because it's just not possible and I was making myself crazy with 2 children both needing me at the same time.

OK-- I do not get why you mamas feel GUILTY about DOING WHAT YOUR CHILDREN NEED. AP is not about babywearing or co-sleeping . . .it's just that many children want/need this (and it's not the norm so people don't know about it or don't think they should do it). If they don't like these tools, then you are responding to their needs and wants by not doing it-- which is what AP is all about-- responding to a child's needs.


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## foxtrot (Jan 27, 2008)

I feel guilty because DD doesn't want to be carried, but she also cries when I put her down. I've read all this stuff about how a baby that is carried doesn't cry etc. Well, DD cries no matter what I do and it makes me feel like I've done something wrong. That's my answer anyway. I feel like I don't know what her needs are because she's been so darned unhappy her whole life.


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## artgoddess (Jun 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RaeAnne* 
Does anyone else wonder if they should have had their baby in the first place? People say it gets better, but it's not really happening yet. Then there are the people with older children who say babies are so great, and so much easier, "Just wait until their running around and saying 'No, then you'll appreciate this time.'" WTF??? Seriously, what if it doesn't get better? Every age has something crappy about it. What if I never like this?












You are completely normal. It's okay not to like the baby stage. A very good friend and I were out to dinner Friday night and she has two kids, the youngest being 18 months old and she is really loving being a mom...now that they can walk and talk and communicate with her. Some people are just not baby people. And I think it really stinks that women who are not so great with babies are stuck feeling like they are a bad person or that their is something wrong with them as women because they don't love every minute of the baby stage.

My friend didn't have PPD, but she thought she must be the absolute worst person on earth when her older dd was a baby. She hated herself for not liking her DD. She loved her more than anything but she just didn't enjoy her. For my friend it got so much better when her dd could walk and get to where she wanted to go, not just cry because she didn't like being in the kitchen but couldn't tell her mom she wanted to go to the bedroom. And when her DD started talking (which by the way her dd is amazingly gifted in speech) my friend felt like a whole new woman. She loves playing with her DD now, they are best friends, because she can help her dd figure out what she needs.


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *RTT* 
You know, this is nice to hear. Anytime I've asked if it gets easier I always get "No, the challenges are just different!" But I want to believe that as challenging as older kids can be there is still something easier about a child who can communicate what they need as opposed to an infant who can only cry when they need something.

Well, they can't always. Children of all ages (and many adults!) cannot express really what they need, and needs become much more complicated. For toddlers and children, things like "I need boundaries to know I am safe" is not something they can express and will often protest even when you see it and they don't. My pre-schooler still cannot always tell when he is hungry or needs to use the potty, he just gets whiney. In fact, when he is injured or sick, he often cannot tell me what is the matter with him. Yes- there are lots of things that DO get easier when they talk and even more when they can be a bit reflective and make sense. And there is a lot that is very rewarding hearing "I love you" or "Thanks, Mommy. I really needed that." But I'm just kind of saying that the "needs" don't come clear just because they talk.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
Well, they can't always. Children of all ages (and many adults!) cannot express really what they need, and needs become much more complicated. For toddlers and children, things like "I need boundaries to know I am safe" is not something they can express and will often protest even when you see it and they don't. My pre-schooler still cannot always tell when he is hungry or needs to use the potty, he just gets whiney. In fact, when he is injured or sick, he often cannot tell me what is the matter with him. Yes- there are lots of things that DO get easier when they talk and even more when they can be a bit reflective and make sense. And there is a lot that is very rewarding hearing "I love you" or "Thanks, Mommy. I really needed that." But I'm just kind of saying that the "needs" don't come clear just because they talk.

Yeah, but it still becomes better. I can honestly say that I love my DDs more every year - each year of maturity makes things eons better than when they were small.

I really was not into the baby/toddler age at all, and totally disagree with those who say a teen/preteen is like a toddler. There is no comparison at all IMO.


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## BMG580 (Jun 19, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexsam* 
Well, they can't always. Children of all ages (and many adults!) cannot express really what they need, and needs become much more complicated. For toddlers and children, things like "I need boundaries to know I am safe" is not something they can express and will often protest even when you see it and they don't. My pre-schooler still cannot always tell when he is hungry or needs to use the potty, he just gets whiney. In fact, when he is injured or sick, he often cannot tell me what is the matter with him. Yes- there are lots of things that DO get easier when they talk and even more when they can be a bit reflective and make sense. And there is a lot that is very rewarding hearing "I love you" or "Thanks, Mommy. I really needed that." But I'm just kind of saying that the "needs" don't come clear just because they talk.

My DD was high needs with a capital H and N. The first 18 months were challenging, so challenging that I was detached and scared with my pregnancy with my DS because I just didn't think I could do it all again (he is completely different, laid back and mellow). When DD was around 2 things got exponentially easier. Language acquisition makes all the difference in the world, even if the child isn't descriptive or have a large vocabulary. She being able to articulate general things like body temperature, something hurting for feeling sick, etc. are so significant for me and make parenting her much easier.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *foxtrot* 
I feel guilty because DD doesn't want to be carried, but she also cries when I put her down. I've read all this stuff about how a baby that is carried doesn't cry etc. Well, DD cries no matter what I do and it makes me feel like I've done something wrong. That's my answer anyway. I feel like I don't know what her needs are because she's been so darned unhappy her whole life.

I hear you and I am sending you huge







s. My 3rd DD can very much be like this. It is incredible how much she can cry! Now, you may have very well tried this but I'll throw it out there anyway . . .have you ever tried her in a back carry? When my DD was younger, she hated back carries (and threw fits), but now when we are home and I hold her in my arms or in a carrier in the front, she'll often cry and have a tantrum. Oddly, when I put her on my back, very often she settles down. Now, this means that on a day like today I might have her there for 3 straight hours (she was up at 4:30 am, crying . . .didn't sleep until after 8, right when I was getting my oldest off the school). But, it is SOMETHING to keep her from crying.

I really thought this was going to be much better now, since she is almost 15 months old . . .I thought, maybe when she can sit up, maybe when she can crawl, maybe when she can walk. . .still waiting for her to be a happy or at least somewhat peaceful girl.


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## flapjack (Mar 15, 2005)

Some babies don't get better. Isaac is still, well, Isaac. Screamed as a baby, screamed as a toddler, throws tantrums as a 7yo. though now he'll run away rather than screaming. I love him, but he makes liking him hard sometimes. Literally, my recent bout of depression was actually triggered by my response to the 7yo rather than the newborn







I firmly believe, though, that these children are the exception rather than the rule.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *flapjack* 
Literally, my recent bout of depression was actually triggered by my response to the 7yo rather than the newborn







I firmly believe, though, that these children are the exception rather than the rule.


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## littlecindy (Feb 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Dena* 
There were times I personally wanted to smack Dr. Sears upside the head myself, particularly when I read all his raves about how babies should NEVER be set down for the first NINE months of life, how this is done this way in other cultures, how it is best for baby, etc. (

I would lay money on Mrs. Sears putting the kids down while she cleaned bathrooms.









to be fair...he writes that his first 2 or 3 babies were very "normal." it was their the 3rd or 4th (hayden) that was high needs. after her, he came around to suggesting AP for all babies (at least to some extent), but mostly they just figured it out because that particular baby NEEDED AP.


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## UmmIbrahim (Feb 16, 2007)

There are a bazillion replies to the OP's message...but

OP...Been there, done that! When ds was a newborn and a young baby I was VERY VERY VERY stressed out and pretty miserable. Honestly...the only fun times where when we could get out for a walk or something, most days though were VERY diffciult and some days I just would call dh up at school and be likle get home NOW before I go bonkers.

I donno what to tell you, but trust me, sometimes we all have days where we feel like we want to run out the door and scream, or leave or whatever else...but, what I did...might not be AP...but on those days when he was screaming about everything and the sun and the moon and I was *this close* to loosing it...I'd just put him in his crib, walk away and shut the door and lay down w/ my ipod for 10minutes...I did this on a few occasions and when he woke up...and I woke up, I felt much better and better able to take care of him.
Sometimes you need to take time out for yourself...
Again, what I say probably isnt "AP"...but, i had to do it to save my sanity.

Also know it will get easier...those stages don't last for ever! Now ds is 16 months and he's a total different lil squirt and I can finally say, I think parenting is fun.

*ducks thrown shoes*


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## CowsRock (Aug 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mizelenius* 
AP is not about babywearing or co-sleeping . . .it's just that many children want/need this (and it's not the norm so people don't know about it or don't think they should do it). If they don't like these tools, then you are responding to their needs and wants by not doing it-- which is what AP is all about-- responding to a child's needs.

Yes, I just had a conversation with a friend who was given the impression that "AP" equaled cloth diapers, baby wearing, co-sleeping and who knows what else. I assured her that was not what "defined" it. If you are unclear it might be worth your while to read the principles of attachment parenting, it is not as cut and dry as some seem to think and it saddens me to read about someone who clearly works hard to discover what works best for their child and then discounts their advice with "it might not be AP". Some times it isn't but more often than not on this board it is and those poor moms are feeling guilty about breaking some "rule" that isn't even there. I cloth diaper, dabble in EC, breastfeed and co-sleep because that works for my babe and our family but that isn't what makes us AP. Take a minute and check out the principles if you have never read them or if it has been a long time.


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## NettleTea (Aug 16, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kristen1978* 

Women are not MEANT to do this alone. We are not meant to have such a difficult job and yet be so socially isolated and devalued. Even under the best of circumstances (happy baby, supportive partner, friends) a woman in our culture is still living in a reality that other mothers in the world do not.

I've done quite a bit of traveling and have noticed some major cultural differences in motherhood and what it entails. Of course mothering is hard everywhere, but with extended family and close-knit communities, the burden is usually shared in other parts of the world -- babies are passed around and nursed by others, children are entertained and watched over. Women have more space, more freedom, more room to breathe. Unlike here where we are all supposed to be supermom and love every minute of it.










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I have been feeling that way nearly the entire time I've had my son. Not just in regards to women, but also with parents - having to raise the child alone with no outside support.

And I've also felt it in regards to all of the controversy behind NIP. Like a mother is just supposed to sit at home to breastfeed each and every time as though that is really feasible.







And one can only nurse in the car for so long before the warm weather hits and makes it impossible. I've felt so many times that if I were lucky enough to live in a culture where breastfeeding anywhere/anytime is normal that I would not feel so discouraged, trapped, shunned, and so many other things. It's not bothered me as much lately, but for a long time I felt it constantly.


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