# high-back vs. backless boosters-- relative merits



## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

I'm debating this one, and I know beans about carseats. My 4 year old recently started riding in a high-back booster. It's actually her Alpha-Omega, converted to a high-back. Anyway, my mom wants to get a booster for her, to put in her car for when DD is with her, and she wants to get a backless booster, mostly on the basis of it being easier to store when DD isn't with her. Up until now we've been switching the seat back and forth, ever since DD outgrew my mom's Roundabout. I don't know much about this. DD is over 40 pounds, so technically she meets the criteria, but I can't help wondering if a high-back booster is safer. Is it? How much safer? I need something I can show my mom to prove it, if it is, so if you have links, I'd be really grateful!


----------



## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

you are so going to hate me.
First, the AO almost never fits a child appropriately as a booster and we absolutely don't recommend it. Please check the fit on your child, but you will almost certainly find the lap belt is placed over the childs stomch, instead of her thighs where it needs to be.

Secondly..4/40 is an absolute minimum for booster use, we prefer age 6 if possible.

Regardless of that, yes, a high back is MUCH safer..much,much. It provides side im pact protection, gives the child support for sleeping, etc. Of course, a harness would really be best. If you can not harness, then a highback booster, that places the belt appropriately ( and this will vary from child to child and vehicle to vehicle, depdning on size of child and where the vehicle belts are placed/what angle they are at, etc) A backless booster is for MUCH older kids, like age 7, 8, 9 who stilll need a bit of a boost.

let me go run and find the crash tests.....


----------



## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

here is the 5 pt harness vs booster crash test


----------



## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

here is the risk of submarining when you take a child out of a 5 pt too soon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yUl4...eature=related


----------



## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I would definitely keep a 4 yo harnessed.... Once you switch (like, closer to age 6 or so) I'd go with a high back booster, then later on a backless (my tall, almost 8 yo DD is now in one).

ETA: the biggest problem with your mom getting a backless booster (besides it being more dangerous overall than a 5-pt harness) is that there is no guide for the seatbelt. I imagine for most 4 yo's, regardless of weight, the shoulder portion of the seatbelt will not fit correctly in a backless booster. I still would not do a high-back booster at this age, but at least it would likely help the belt position right (depending on the model, I suppose).


----------



## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

here is what you really want...crash test of a backless booster, and then a high back booster with basic head protection, then a HBB with deep sidewings

http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_s...g_P3_vorne.mpg

http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_s.../htsbesafe.mpg

http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_s...ordliftpro.mpg

this should be enough to convince mom of the lacxk of safety, although of course we hope you will reconsider harnessing the child, at least in the primary vehicle. And it woudl make our hearts overflow if your 23 month olds were still rearfacing?????







:


----------



## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

All right, seriously, I know all about keeping her harnessed as long as possible. I just don't know how to make it happen. She's 42 pounds, but she's also tall. Very tall. I don't know exactly how tall, because I have never measured her, but she wears size 6X pants. There are seats that will let her be harnessed, but they have to 1. fit with the two other seats I have across one back seat, and 2. be affordable for me. I struggle to keep a roof over our heads, so a few hundred bucks for a carseat is out of the question. The twins' carseats were gifts, as was DD's. I can't buy one, not right now, not until she's done with preschool and I have the extra money that I now spend on school. And any of those places that help you get a low-cost or free seat will tell you to put a 40 pound 4 year old in a booster. So thank you for the advice, but we're going to stick with the AO.

Thank you for the information about the two types of boosters, though, bobandjess99. That was exactly what I needed.


----------



## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

If she's in size 6X pants, it sounds like her height is mostly in her legs, which is GOOD news for fitting in carseats. It's torso height that determines whether a child is too tall for a particular carseat.

It's possible she'd still fit in a Sunshine Kids Radian 65, which is the narrowest seat available, but quite pricey and she wouldn't fit it for very long. She would probably fit in a Graco Nautilus, but it's fairly wide; still, it's worth going to a BRU if there's one near you and trying the floor model with your other seats in your car, since it's a pretty good price for the seat. It also converts to a good high-back booster, and then later a low-back booster, so it'd be the last seat she'll ever need for certain.

The Britax Frontier is narrower than the Nautilus, but more expensive. They should be going on sale this month, though, so you might want to keep an eye out. I don't much see them in brick-and-mortar stores, which makes it hard to try with your other seats. :-/ It'll probably last to be handed down to one of your other kids, since the entire seat has a 9-year lifespan (the back and harness of the Nautilus expire after six years).


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Another idea for you:

If she can get a better fit in a different booster than she can get in the AO you already own, what about getting the new booster for YOUR car and giving the AO to your mom for her car?


----------



## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

sadly, there really isn't a good high weight harnessing option for a big heavy kid that is also narrow enough to get 3 across. i'm sorry...maybe the car seat manufacturers will work on that , lol! The nautilus isn't horrible, right now it is $144 at walmart.com, but I understand that even $144 is an impossible amount for some people....the only other option is the Apex, which is at biglots for $85, online at babyage for $100 shipped, will harness to 65, but it is a wide seat...so it might not work for 3 across.
As for good, yet cheap booster options, there are quite a few. Your biggest obstacle is probably going to be the 3-across situation, but luckily, the AO is really wide, so if she has enough room for that big bear of a seat,most boosters on the market will likely fit also.
What seats are the babies in, so I know what seats are going to best puzzle together?

Do you have a budget in mind for the new seat? $50? $80? less? more? something with headwings, like the turbobooster has, is going to be safer than something without them, with a low-profile shell, like the cargo or chase. so try to keep that in mind.
do you have big lots near you? they tend to carry a selection of seats at a discount, including boosters.

And, I say this to try and help, not to nag, but something to consider is this...if you buy a new booster for her, like maybe a nice turbobooster, maybe you could use that one in your primary vehicle, and use the AO in the secondary vehicle..that way you would be increasing your child's safety without spending any more money than you were going to already. Just trying to help.


----------



## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

I was also going to say I saw an Apex at my Big Lots just yesterday for $85 and that we currently have three in a row (in a pathfinder). Apex drivers side, rear-facing marathon middle, and a back-less booster passenger side. Both the apex and britax are wide seats, but it's an easy fit in our vehicle so don't totally discount it as a seat, just because of size. I would guess that even the tallest of 4 yo's would still fit under the highest harness setting.

I get the money and space issue, I do, but just wanted to mention that it may not be impossible.


----------



## Adventuredad (Apr 23, 2008)

A high back booster is far safer than a cushion due to factors mentioned above. Better side impact support, far better guide of the seatbelt, and much better position for a child when sleeping.

Regarding harness v. high back booster. They are about as safe for a child of appropriate age, which is usually 4 and up. It's very unfortunate that people stare so much at eh Youtube videos because so many incorrect assumptions are take.

It leads to m,any poor decisions. I don't know how many parents who run their child ff at 12 months believing it's a fantastic idea. Later on they spend two months researching the best harnessed seat and are deadly afraid of putting their 5 year old in a booster. That's very poor decision making due to being poorly informed.

The researchers who have done this the longest and have the most experience (The Swedes) say boosters are safer and don't harness any kids ff. This has to do with ride down ime of harnessed seats and also on the tremendous force put on a childs body and neck area.

Most also don't realize that the harnessing opinion is nothing more than just that. It's a subjective opinion. There is no proof or tests done which say harnessing is better. Likewise, there are no tests which prove boosters are better.

No tests are done of boosters vs. harness because researchers know difference is very small and doing this test would be too complicated, expensive, subjective , and useless. When these two methods are mentioned the same answer is always give from the researchers. Focus on rear facing, that's where the huge benefits are.

Harnessing is safe for a child and so are boosters. Few people have the opportunity to speak to people who do test and develop seats on a daily basis. That's unfortunate since the answer is always the same, boosters and harnessing are about as safe


----------



## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

The biggest safety advantage to a harness is with children who are too young to use a seatbelt properly. While a crash-test dummy may fare similarly in a FF harness and booster, a live child who is too immature to sit properly in a booster and seatbelt is at significant risk.

The Swedes are right that rear-facing is safest, and they have seats that RF to 50 pounds for that reason. When we have seats that will RF to age five, then we can skip the FF harness too, but since there are kids that outgrow every RF seat on the mass market before three, they are TOO YOUNG to be in a booster.


----------



## Labyrinth (Apr 14, 2008)

Does she wear a 6x in shirts too?

I would either go with a ride safer travel vest in the center for three across or get a high back turbo booster. I've found the SRTV for as low as $90. If you are on any type of government financial assistance I would contact I would contact the Kyle David ****** Foundation to see if they could help you purchase a restraint.


----------



## bandgeek (Sep 12, 2006)

How often does she ride with your mom? Personally, I wouldn't use the AO as a booster. Really truly, she's better off in a $13 backless than in that booster.

Ideally, assuming you intend to just use boosters, she will be better off in a highback in each car. But if you are seriously strapped for cash, I'd get a backless for the car she rides the least in and a nice highback for the main car.

OR you can switch the seat back and forth. It's so much easier with a booster than a harnessed car seat since you don't have to install it. It would just suck if you forgot and she ended up with nothing to ride in.

I understand both sides of the argument...harness vs. booster. I recently had to get my DS a booster because his dad and grandma weren't installing the harnessed seat properly. He's still a couple of lbs shy of 40, but he fits well and understands not to mess with the belt or lean out of the seat. It IS a safe option. He's still harnessed in my car and as soon as his dad gets his own car, he'll be harnessed in that too. They just can't handle switching seats around so the booster was a better option for now.

The fact of the matter is, your DD meets the minimums. Makes sure she knows how to sit properly and she will be safe.

Good luck!


----------



## jillmamma (Apr 11, 2005)

I would get a high backed Graco Turbobooster for your child. DH got one for DS at Target for like $40. It is still pretty easy to take in and out of the car if you don't need it and stow in the trunk or move to a different car. DS is 6 (44.5" and 46 lb), and is very comfortable and it works well to place the seat belt in the correct spot for him. Plus, it is pretty narrow and I can easily fit 3 across the back of my Jeep Grand Cherokee with it, DD's Decathlon RF and another seat for a friend.


----------



## MacKinnon (Jun 15, 2004)

A booster for a 4 year old is perfectly viable option, I would worry less about a harnessed seat than about the fit of the booster. Although we love to see kids stay harnessed, you are right, we distributed boosters for kids your DD's age. Financially speaking, it's just not possible to give out Nautilus'! That said, please look at how the AOE fits. You would be much better off getting a new Graco TurboBooster, high back, than using that AOE. Maybe if you have to, you could give the AOE to your mom for her back up and she could put the cash towards a TurboBooster for you? That is still less than ideal, but those AOE's fit so poorly it could truly be dangerous in a crash. Or, if there is a Safe Kids or other seat distribution program near you, maybe you could get her a new High Back through them? I replace combo seats that don't fit well, I just did yesterday, in fact. The bottom line is that neither the AOE nor the low back are good options. Two High Back TurboBoosters will probably be your best, cheapest option. Or one that you just move back and forth for now.


----------



## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Costco has the turbobooster for $40 right now. The one I bought was manufactured December 2008!


----------

