# Anyone have a grown GDer?



## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

I'm really struggling lately with gd, behaviors are getting worse not better, no matter what I try or don't try, everything is getting worse, if I let one thing go, something else pops up. This just really isn't working and I'm at a real loss.

Anyway I'd like some positive stories from "the other side", does anyone have a grown (or teenager) that they have raised GD and have any stories to share?

I really need motivation to keep going, because right now, I'm ready to throw in the towel.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I have a 16 yr old...is that old enough? Dh and I were clear on raising our children with gentleness and respect from the onset. He's never been hit or 'punished'. He's a *very* nice kid. What sorts of stories? I should say we are respectful and gentle, but not 'permissive' . We don't believe children have frontal lobes well -developed enough to make all their own decisions, all the time. We're very clear that we have more life experience than our children do.


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## mommyofshmoo (Oct 25, 2004)

Hey, my dd's not grown, but I wanted to reply, because I was thinking that kids seem to have their good phases and their bad ones and during their bad ones it often feels like it's always this way and it's been getting worse steadily, when really it's just this week, or month, or whatever.

Maybe try thinking back to recent trips you took or holidays- can you remember a time when things seemed to go smoothly?

Also- I had an interesting phone call yesterday with an old friend who has a dd the same age as mine with a similar temperment. I told her that at this point I don't even really beleive in punishment anymore (not because dd is always easy to deal with, but because they never seem to work at least not for long.) My friend says that her dd just about spends all day in time out some days. She also said she's really suprised how much dh and I travel around and go out to eat with dd because her and her dh can barely sit down at the same time at home.

Now - I'm guessing my friend's dd isn't all that different from mine. From the few times I've seen them sately, I don't think her dd behaved much differently than mone. So if she's doing all this punishing all the time, I can only assume it's not working.

Anyway- gotta run.

ps- studies show that kids misbehave again after any kind of punishment. It's just that when spanking works no one questions it's effectiveness.


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## cmb123 (Dec 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eman'smom*
I'm really struggling lately with gd, behaviors are getting worse not better, no matter what I try or don't try, everything is getting worse, if I let one thing go, something else pops up. This just really isn't working and I'm at a real loss.
.

My kids aren't grown ups, my oldest is only 9, but I'm writing because I think GD is wonderful. I love the way our family works, and I love to see how things work out with out screaming or hitting or punitive measures.
Correct me if I'm not understanding, but GD doesn't mean NO disciple. "Letting things go" is not what GD is about. IMHO using GD takes a lot more time and effort than spanking, or punishing does. It means taking the time to work out every situation- not just let it go. If that has been your understanding of it, than I'm not at all surprised if things are getting worse instead of better.
I also think it's important to know what your goals are...what you are expecting. Do you expect that if you use GD that your children will never misbehave? Unfortunately, I don't think any method will do that (dang!







).
But I think that the rewards of having a family that communicates and children who are learning, not just obeying out of fear is worth the extra effort!


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## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmb123*
Correct me if I'm not understanding, but GD doesn't mean NO disciple. "Letting things go" is not what GD is about. IMHO using GD takes a lot more time and effort than spanking, or punishing does. It means taking the time to work out every situation- not just let it go. If that has been your understanding of it, than I'm not at all surprised if things are getting worse instead of better.


Let me clear up what I mean by "letting things go", I mean I've "let it go" over my 4 year old sitting at the table for dinner, he sits until he's done then leaves, I've "let it go" about him sitting there talking to us until we are all done. I've "let it go" about taking a nice walk in the evening with my husband with the kids in the stroller, we now take a crazy walk with ds on his bike, I've "let that go", or I guess you could say I'm picking my battles. I'm in no way saying I'm "letting it go" when ds hits dd or dd bites him back. I am very aware that GD is a much more time consuming form of discipline. My point about "letting it go" is that I've picked my battles carfully and follow through on those, not letting the discipline go.

mommyofshmoo you are right, we have taken many nice trips with them, I even flew with the two of them alone last month, and got several wonderful comments about how well behaved the children were and how I handled them. I have friends that spank, and there kids aren't any better behaved, it just seems that nobody looks down on them and that kind of discipline KWIM? Nobody says "have you tried talking to your child, removing the toy....." When they misbehave, but I get the "you should spank them....."

This isn't really about peer pressure, I'm tired, I'm worn out of the same battles the fighting between the two of them, the not listening.......


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## cmb123 (Dec 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Eman'smom*
Let me clear up what I mean by "letting things go", I mean I've "let it go" over my 4 year old sitting at the table for dinner, he sits until he's done then leaves, I've "let it go" about him sitting there talking to us until we are all done. I've "let it go" about taking a nice walk in the evening with my husband with the kids in the stroller, we now take a crazy walk with ds on his bike, I've "let that go", or I guess you could say I'm picking my battles. I'm in no way saying I'm "letting it go" when ds hits dd or dd bites him back. I am very aware that GD is a much more time consuming form of discipline. My point about "letting it go" is that I've picked my battles carfully and follow through on those, not letting the discipline go.
..

Ah! I get that!!!! And I sure get the part about people looking down on GD as opposed to encouraging it!
Well, as I mentioned earlier, my kids are not totally grown, but if it is encouraging at all, it does get easier as they get older. ( I can't believe I just said that, I always hated it when people said that to me! But they were right :LOL )
I just think overall it is so worth it. There are days when I just feel like screaming.."do it cause I freaking said so-now go to your room!"

Keep up your hard work. It will pay off (and sounds like it already does when it's not a crazy time).


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## Eman'smom (Mar 19, 2002)

Thanks, I keep telling myself it will get better, and when I get through a rough situation, I'm glad that I didn't yell or spank, I'm not saying I handled them all well (there was this awful shoe incident over the weekend), but I'm glad I didn't resort to the horrible screaming that I was raised with or the smacks but still........

Hey, and I've told people to enjoy their babies they grow up to fast, and I've always hated hearing that when I had babies :LOL

I guess I just need to hear that I'm not raising monsters


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## zipperump-a-zoomum (Jan 9, 2002)

I was raised by pretty gd parents. I was never spanked, and never punished (actally- that's not true, I was "grounded" once in high school- violated trust thing.) I don't remember my parents yelling much; i do remember talking a lot.
I turned out awesome!









:LOL

Kaly


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## mommyofshmoo (Oct 25, 2004)

ITA that GD is not respected as much as harsher forms of discipline.

Most people think that if you don't punish children- as in punish them until they bend to your will, whatever that takes, your children will become terrible people.

As far as I have seen, that's just not true. More than anything, children imitate their parents. It seems that modelling caring, consioderate, respectful behavior is the best thing you can do.

I think a lot of people remember being scared of being spanked and feel that this fear made them behave better. But I don't think it really did, in most cases. Or esle the kids would have been able to avoid spankings.

I loved the Alphi Kohn quote, "saying that kids chose to misbehave is similar to saying that people chose to be poor." Kids misbehave for a variety of reasons, many of them out of kids' control. No amount of punishment will fix that.

I hate to say it, but I think the main reason people encourage spanking is that they subconsciously want to hit children themselves, perhaps even your children. I think it must be very cathartic to be able to take out your frustration on your child that way. I don't know for sure because I don't spank- but I grew up with it and used to "spank" my brothers when I took care of them s/t (I was way too young to have been babvysitting.) Spanking them never made a stitch of difference in whether they listened to me, but it made me feel more powerful at the time.


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## lizamann (Dec 2, 2004)

Like Kaly, I and my 5 younger siblings were raised pretty darned GD. No spanking (except for 1 brother once - Dad was REAL mad!), no yelling, no grounding, no timeouts, no lectures, no pseudo choices, not even "logical consequences." Lots of redirection, tangible and unconditional affection and love, tons of attention, knowing we were absolutely the most precious things in the world to our parents, and our parents having firm limits that we knew not to overstep. We never did overstep just because we respected our parents and more importantly, knew they respected us. They had very high expectations for us and we knew it. I have to brag on my parents and say that they raised 6 angelic children! Now we're all very nice, self sufficient, and honest college graduates. I can only hope to do as well with my own child. So grateful to have had the example!


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## UnschoolnMa (Jun 14, 2004)

I have an 11.5 yr old, and an almost 14 yr old. I pretty much started out GD-ish, but what GD looked like to me changed dramatically over the first 5 years of having kids lol. What we think things will be like with children is often so far off







(We also got into TCS too, but that's a different aspect and not what you were asking about...)

It isn't always easy to be gentle, but it's so worth it in my opinion. My kids are at an age where many parents are ready to go nuts (pre-teen/teen years) and here we are loving it! They are kind, funny, down to earth young people. We talk alot in our family and I think that too has gone a long way in shaping how the kids are. We get the permissive label tossed at us sometimes because of what we "let go" or don't even see as a problem. Picking your battles is definatly key.


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## kayabrink (Apr 19, 2005)

I *am* a GD raised kid. I have never been spanked, hit, or coerced into doing anything. My mother basically raised me (unbeknownest to her) according to the principles set out by Khon, except she did sort of 'allow' praise. She would tell me to do something once and if I didn't comply, she would wait, then eventually do it herself if I still failed to respond. (I knew when she started doing it I had REALLY blown it). Anyway, FWIW, I think I'm pretty much perfect :LOL JMHO about myself. No just kidding. I can't evaluate how GD affected me, because I couldn't possibly be objective enough. But I would ask anyone doing GD to PLEASE keep doing it! Your kids will remember, and you will have a much better relationship with them as a result.







Do it for your kids.







Focus on the long term goal of having a mentally stable kid and a healthy relationship with them, rather than on their day to day, sometimes sub-optimal behaviour.
Oh and FWIW I'm pretty "well behaved" now! :LOL


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## Kira's mom (Nov 30, 2004)

My mom always treated me with respect. no spanking,no yelling.I got grounded once at 13.In a way she may have been a bit lax. My dad was a yeller. It only made me afaraid of him.I have the best relationship w/my mom and would never disrespect her.Somewhere I read that if you were angry with a friend you'd never hit them- you'd talk about it.so...with dd i try to talk to her. She's only 2 and does throw her food once in a while but I hope taking that extra time to treat her w/ respect and talk to her will do for us what it did for my mom and i.In answer to your question I am almost 44 and I definately think GD has helped me become the honest kind person that I am. Mom didn't have a name for it she just did it. Keep up the good work.


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## zipperump-a-zoomum (Jan 9, 2002)

I just had to add that all of us who posted that our parents were pretty GD also posted about how great we are. So, I guess we could conclude that GD kids end up having awesome self esteem. :LOL








Kaly


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## OneCatholicMommy (Jan 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommyofshmoo*

I think a lot of people remember being scared of being spanked and feel that this fear made them behave better. But I don't think it really did, in most cases. Or esle the kids would have been able to avoid spankings.

I loved the Alphi Kohn quote, "saying that kids chose to misbehave is similar to saying that people chose to be poor." Kids misbehave for a variety of reasons, many of them out of kids' control. No amount of punishment will fix that.

Spanking was my parents' primary form of discipline, until into my teens. I wasn't spanked that often, but I don't recall ever getting spanked for the same thing twice, so in my case it worked.

As far as the quote, I do believe that some people DO choose to be poor. But not most.


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## OneCatholicMommy (Jan 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kayabrink*
I *am* a GD raised kid. I have never been spanked, hit, or coerced into doing anything. My mother basically raised me (unbeknownest to her) according to the principles set out by Khon, except she did sort of 'allow' praise. She would tell me to do something once and if I didn't comply, she would wait, then eventually do it herself if I still failed to respond. (I knew when she started doing it I had REALLY blown it). Anyway, FWIW, I think I'm pretty much perfect :LOL JMHO about myself. No just kidding. I can't evaluate how GD affected me, because I couldn't possibly be objective enough. But I would ask anyone doing GD to PLEASE keep doing it! Your kids will remember, and you will have a much better relationship with them as a result.







Do it for your kids.







Focus on the long term goal of having a mentally stable kid and a healthy relationship with them, rather than on their day to day, sometimes sub-optimal behaviour.
Oh and FWIW I'm pretty "well behaved" now! :LOL

So if your mom asked you to do something, and you didn't do it... there were no consequences?


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## spsmom (Jun 19, 2004)

I was raised with gd. my mom believe that children were just being "spirited" when other parents would cringe at the thought of some of our behavior. (little things like bringing a pocket full of dirt and pill bugs into the bath with me because they needed one! ( i know this is a silly example, but it's one of my mom's favorites that i would do)

i do remember being slapped across the face, once. I was about 9 and i talked back to my mom. yes, i was 9 before i even considered it! that was the last time i talked back! but other than that, i was never spanked or hit or screamed at.

i also question how this is going to work out, and i have lost it and spanked my child. i hated it and don't ever want to do it again. it feels so much better when i get down on his level, talk to him, and get a big smile and hug instead of a screaming fit!


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

So if your mom asked you to do something, and you didn't do it... there were no consequences?
What kind of consequence would you suggest?

When you raise a child using GD, empathy, and true dialogue between parent and child, I just don't think it happens often that the child refuses to do something. For one thing, the parent is not ordering his/her child around enough for it to come up very often!







If I say, "Dd, we should clean up your room tonight before going to bed" and she says "I don't feel like it right now," all I have to say is, "Well, it makes me feel tired to have to clean it all by myself," and, well, she feels that all-important empathy for mommy and gives me a hand (albeit a small hand sometimes). If she truly doesn't feel like helping, I feel that she must have a good reason. There have been lots of times I haven't felt like doing something either. Why nag? Why insist? I feel empathy for her too. So we find a solution together. I don't understand what a consequence is going to teach her. That "we work together in this house??" That "everyone has to do his share?" I think it just makes the child feel bad about normal feelings.


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## OneCatholicMommy (Jan 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ParisMaman*
What kind of consequence would you suggest?

When you raise a child using GD, empathy, and true dialogue between parent and child, I just don't think it happens often that the child refuses to do something. For one thing, the parent is not ordering his/her child around enough for it to come up very often!







If I say, "Dd, we should clean up your room tonight before going to bed" and she says "I don't feel like it right now," all I have to say is, "Well, it makes me feel tired to have to clean it all by myself," and, well, she feels that all-important empathy for mommy and gives me a hand (albeit a small hand sometimes). If she truly doesn't feel like helping, I feel that she must have a good reason. There have been lots of times I haven't felt like doing something either. Why nag? Why insist? I feel empathy for her too. So we find a solution together. I don't understand what a consequence is going to teach her. That "we work together in this house??" That "everyone has to do his share?" I think it just makes the child feel bad about normal feelings.

Personally, I think this sounds too "pie in the sky." I believe that there are some children who will respond to that. But not all children. And definitely not my 2nd son! He is "too tired" to do most things I ask him! I am willing to listen to reason, sometimes! For example:

Me: "Please pick up your blocks before you go outside."
Him: "Can I leave them out till daddy comes home? I want to show him what I built!"
Me: "OK. But right after dinner, you will pick them up."
Him: "OK."
(later, after dinner)
Me: "Jonathan, pick up your blocks now."
Him: "Nooooooo. I caaaaant. I'm tooooo tiiiiiiiired."

This could go on all night or all week if I let it. But we do expect obedience and responsibility for actions. Yeah, there are reasonable requests like wanting to show daddy. But eventually it has to be done. I am not about to just let it go.

ETA: For the example you gave, I might say "Well, if I have to clean your room by myself, then there will not be time for a bedtime story." And I follow through with that consequence, despite his loud protests. If he continues loudly protesting (to the point of waking up the baby, for example) he can lose other privileges such as: I will turn the hall light off, or I'll shut the door, etc.

I remember reading something in Dr Sears book (I don't have the book anymore so I cannot quote) that discipline is easier if mother and child are in tune with each other through attachment parenting. But I don't buy it!


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## mommyofshmoo (Oct 25, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OneCatholicMommy*
Spanking was my parents' primary form of discipline, until into my teens. I wasn't spanked that often, but I don't recall ever getting spanked for the same thing twice, so in my case it worked.

As far as the quote, I do believe that some people DO choose to be poor. But not most.

I think the quote means that there are many factors that go into children misbehaving, and that it's not a clear black and white choice like "paper or plastic." I think the point is also that poverty has many causes and it would be a harsh and incorrect blanket statement to say people simply "choose" it.

My parents yelled and spanked for discipline, usually yelled. I actually often wished they'd just spank rather than yelling.

When I did get hit it was generally for the same type of thing- daring to act like a kid when my grandmother was visiting. Oh yeah, and getting on airplanes generally lead to being smacked.

In many families, kids are spanked when parents are stressed, not so much directly because of what kids did wrong.

Some families are not like that- but the few parents I know who spank do it the same way my parents did.


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## OneCatholicMommy (Jan 21, 2002)

"I think the quote means that there are many factors that go into children misbehaving, and that it's not a clear black and white choice like "paper or plastic." I think the point is also that poverty has many causes and it would be a harsh and incorrect blanket statement to say people simply "choose" it."

I agree. I wasn't making a blanket statement.
However, I do believe that sometimes children do chose to misbehave. It's called defiance.


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

Me: "Please pick up your blocks before you go outside."
Well, first of all you're giving him an ultimatum. Basically, you're saying "You can't go outside until you do this." No child will respond favorably to that.

Quote:

"Jonathan, pick up your blocks now."
And few respond to orders very well.

I get plenty of "I'm too tireds" and "I don't wanna." Guess what? There's always something on behind those "I'm too tireds." Usually she simply needs an explanation, "Well, we keep stepping on all your toys and eventually one's going to get broken. Let's clean them up." Or a lot of times I will stop what I'm doing for 3 measly minutes, give the child a back rub and some affection, and then continue.

I don't expect my child to do it all alone. It can be overwhelming.

Over the last few days we've been working on putting clothes either on her bed (like pjs) or back in her armoire. She's very proud that she has not forgotten that now for 2 days. It's that too "pie in the sky" for you, too?

Quote:

that discipline is easier if mother and child are in tune with each other through attachment parenting. But I don't buy it!
It's incredibly easy to break down that attachment through threats, bribery, isolation and removal of privileges/possessions.

But, we're way OT, so perhaps this discussion should be taken to a new thread. Sorry OP.


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## OneCatholicMommy (Jan 21, 2002)

Wow. I didn't know ultimatums were a sin. Are all parental expectations a sin? And yes, I do offer explanations like you gave. (Toys are in the way and I cannot vacuum, we will trip on them, etc) And yes...I do expect him to do it himself. At 4.5 year old, I figure if he made the mess, he can easily clean it up. As I read in another thread here, sometimes children have to learn to work on another's timetable. And sometimes there are consequences for not working together with others.

No, I don't think your daughter being proud of herself for not forgetting is "pie in the sky." Good for her!

But yes, I do think generally that the "no consequences" is too pie-in-the-sky. Great that it works in your household! It does not work here. Consequences get results here.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

I am wading in carefully, because I have been accused of having 'perfect' children. I suppose they are perfect, in a Joseph Chilton Pierce sort of way.









I am not always perfectly calm with my children- I get crabby. I have 4 children and sometimes I'm tired. But I have never found any of my children to be outright defiant. They just doesn't resonate with me.

We try to find ways to work together, and sometimes we're all tired and sometimes things do not go as well as we'd like. But as I have 2 older GDer's-- i am actually not even into that discipline part, if you really want to know-- I've been around the block. My oldest two children are 16 and nearly 13, and I have never seen a need to ground them or punish them. I keep coming back to needing examples.

Recently, my son hit a parked car backing out of our driveway. He didn't mean to-- he's just not an experienced driver. He went to the person's house and told them and we will have surcharge on our insurance now, but he doesn't have a job and he already does a ton of stuff around our house, just as a member of a family. He felt terrible, learned a lesson and apologized. What else should happen? I didn't tell him he couldn't drive anymore- he needs the experience. He knows what he did was an accident and will be more careful in the future. He wasn't speeding, he just misjudged the physics of the situation. Lesson learned. If you don't check it all out very carefully, you might hit something.

He wasn't afraid to tell us what happened--our car was undamaged- he could have 'gotten away" this for quite a while. But he wasn't afraid to go to the person's home and let them know what he did. He was mature about the entire thing, unafraid to own up to his mistake. He wasn't interested in keeping it from us.

I think part of the reason he reacted so maturely was because he didn't experience a childhood of punishment. He could accept the situation - didn't run away, didn't scream about it not being his fault- the guy parked in front of our driveway etc.

I mean, what more could I want? We didn't see a need to punish-- and we are not asking him to get a part time job so he can pay the surcharge. This is part of having multiple drivers on a policy-- things happen. I told him i thought he handled the siituation as any decent person would. If, godforbid, something else happens, he knows he can come to us.

We're here to help, not punish. We're here to help guide our kids & share life. I don't think that's 'pie in the sky'.


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:

Wow. I didn't know ultimatums were a sin.
You gave an example of a dialogue that didn't work. I told you why. Period.

Well, the putting the clothes thing away was done with no nagging and no consequences for not putting them away. Pie in the sky?

UUMom -- That's cool! I strive for that.


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## OneCatholicMommy (Jan 21, 2002)

_I think part of the reason he reacted so maturely was because he didn't experience a childhood of punishment. He could accept the situation - didn't run away, didn't scream about it not being his fault- the guy parked in front of our driveway etc._

Your son sounds like a very responsible young man. Bless him...and you!

However, I beg to differ about the punishment part. I had a very similar thing happen when I was 16...I misjudged a turn in a parking lot and hit a car. My childhood was filled with punishment (well, only when I did something wrong) and I reacted in the same way your son did. And my parents didn't punish me either, at that point. I certainly didn't act out of fear. My point is, punishment is not going to turn out dishonest teenagers...necessarily. I'm not saying everything my parents did was great; only that I made the same decision as your son with a very different upbringing.


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## OneCatholicMommy (Jan 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PM*
You gave an example of a dialogue that didn't work. I told you why. Period.

Well, the putting the clothes thing away was done with no nagging and no consequences for not putting them away. Pie in the sky?

UUMom -- That's cool! I strive for that.

Hmmm. You could sure try to be a bit gentle with ME.

So tell me, how should I handle that issue with my son?


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

There is a lot to be said for a respectful, loving, even pleasurable ( !) childhood.

My son did the 'rgiht thing' and grew up surrounded by lack of punishment, and with love and respect. My dh and I do not look at our style of parenting as being 'outcome' based. We respect ourselves as parents and enjoy the love and pleasure we get out of it. We are true to who we are. Our love and pleasure comes back to us 10 fold. We are blessed with healthy children, but we also highly enjoy our children, who, for the most part, are pleasant to be around. We're hedonists (lovers of pleasure) and proud of it. Bring on the joy.


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## RubyWild (Apr 7, 2004)

I'm one myself. I'm 38 and was gentle disciplined. I'm not sure what to say about that except that I think I turned out pretty good.









My nephews, 20 and 16 were/are GDed. There have been rough spots, some bad behaviors, normal stuff, but, in the end, they're very connected and loving with their parents.

I don't think GD means your family will be able to circumnavigate all teenage issues. Rather, I think it leads to connected families with mutual respect.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
My dh and I do not look at our style of parenting as being 'outcome' based.











This is the model for my childhood, imo. My parents just liked us, accepted us, enjoyed their life, parenting role as much as possible. Our childhood experiences were considered valuable ~ not just a means to become productive adults.

I would consider myself GDd but there was little in the way of guidance beyond modeling good behavior and generally less communication than I would like to provide for my child. But, all in all, it was a very GD upbringing. No hitting, no yelling (like none!), very little coercion, I was punished once.

One of the things that I think really helped motivate us was that our parents didn't ever seem to doubt that we were going to be fine. They just didn't seem to worry about that. Looking back, I think one of the best gifts my parents gave me was their unwavering confidence that I was and would always be a "good" person.

Eman'smom,

I'm sure there were times that I drove my parents crazy. I'm sure I was a world class brat from time to time. Honestly, seeing my parents exhausted and discouraged by my behavior was probably all I needed to change. This transitions into adult/teen behavior much better than punitive discipline or corporal punishment, imo.

How are things going for you this week?


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## cmb123 (Dec 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
We're here to help, not punish. We're here to help guide our kids & share life. I don't think that's 'pie in the sky'.

I love that!!! That's exactly how I feel.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OneCatholicMommy*
So tell me, how should I handle that issue with my son?

I just got caught up on this thread, haven't visited in a while... but as I was reading your posts about your son, I was imagining him being like 8 or 9...then I got that he was only 4.5. THAT is where it struck me...I think that is way to young to expect him to clean up his mess by himself upon your command. Yes, he is definately old enough to make it- and old enough to clean it up, but most at that age will not do it independantly. Your expectations may not be age appropriate.


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## OneCatholicMommy (Jan 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
There is a lot to be said for a respectful, loving, even pleasurable ( !) childhood.

My son did the 'rgiht thing' and grew up surrounded by lack of punishment, and with love and respect. My dh and I do not look at our style of parenting as being 'outcome' based. We respect ourselves as parents and enjoy the love and pleasure we get out of it. We are true to who we are. Our love and pleasure comes back to us 10 fold. We are blessed with healthy children, but we also highly enjoy our children, who, for the most part, are pleasant to be around. We're hedonists (lovers of pleasure) and proud of it. Bring on the joy.









Sounds like you have a great family.


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## OneCatholicMommy (Jan 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmb123*
I love that!!! That's exactly how I feel.

I just got caught up on this thread, haven't visited in a while... but as I was reading your posts about your son, I was imagining him being like 8 or 9...then I got that he was only 4.5. THAT is where it struck me...I think that is way to young to expect him to clean up his mess by himself upon your command. Yes, he is definately old enough to make it- and old enough to clean it up, but most at that age will not do it independantly. Your expectations may not be age appropriate.

Are you saying he shouldn't be expected to pick up a load of blocks by himself? I am confused....


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## cmb123 (Dec 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OneCatholicMommy*
Are you saying he shouldn't be expected to pick up a load of blocks by himself? I am confused....

Yes, I am pretty much saying that. I think that is an unreasonable expectation for a 4.5yo... not that he couldn't ever do that at this age, but most of the time kids this age need help and patience.

But then again, when I just went back to re-read before responding, I found this quote...

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OneCatholicMommy*
But we do expect obedience and responsibility for actions. Yeah, there are reasonable requests like wanting to show daddy. But eventually it has to be done. I am not about to just let it go.

We clearly have very different goals for our families, so my oppinion probably isn't really relavent to your situation!


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## OneCatholicMommy (Jan 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cmb123*
Yes, I am pretty much saying that. I think that is an unreasonable expectation for a 4.5yo... not that he couldn't ever do that at this age, but most of the time kids this age need help and patience.

But then again, when I just went back to re-read before responding, I found this quote...

We clearly have very different goals for our families, so my oppinion probably isn't really relavent to your situation!









Maybe so, but I'm always looking for more ideas, more tools for the belt!







:


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

OneCatholicMommy -- I am sorry if you feel I have not been gentle with you. I concede that no one likes to have her examples deconstructed. But if you give one on a discussion board, it's going to happen. I did not criticize. And I certainly did not call anything you did a sin. I chose my words carefully when I responded to the sin thing. I agree that it looks harsh. It was not meant to be; I simply wanted to get it across that I had simply been trying to tell you why, perhaps, that specific dialog did not work with your ds.

I will also admit that I was operating from a somewhat emotional reactive level because of your "pie in the sky" comment. Since the example I gave was something that had happened between my dd and me only the previous day, I can't see how it is "pie in the sky." Frankly, I found that inflammatory.

But I'm more than willing to move on.


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## cmb123 (Dec 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OneCatholicMommy*
Maybe so, but I'm always looking for more ideas, more tools for the belt!







:

Ok, I'll continue with my thought then








At times that I have been repeatedly frustrated by something one of my kids seems to be doing over and over and I can't seem to get through to them or they keep doing it no matter what, almost every time it has been because I'm expecting something that is really not age appropriate. Then once I realize it, all the stress the situation is causing me goes away, because then I realize they aren't doing it to get one over on me, or be disrespectful, or any of those other things us mom's might read into the situation...they're just doing what they're supposed to be doing for thier age. I can let it go, then try again when they show signs that they are ready for what ever it is...


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## OneCatholicMommy (Jan 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PM*
OneCatholicMommy -- I am sorry if you feel I have not been gentle with you. I concede that no one likes to have her examples deconstructed. But if you give one on a discussion board, it's going to happen. I did not criticize. And I certainly did not call anything you did a sin. I chose my words carefully when I responded to the sin thing. I agree that it looks harsh. It was not meant to be; I simply wanted to get it across that I had simply been trying to tell you why, perhaps, that specific dialog did not work with your ds.

I will also admit that I was operating from a somewhat emotional reactive level because of your "pie in the sky" comment. Since the example I gave was something that had happened between my dd and me only the previous day, I can't see how it is "pie in the sky." Frankly, I found that inflammatory.

But I'm more than willing to move on.









And I'm more than willing to keep learning. I certainly didn't mean to be inflammatory. Sorry.


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## allilyn11 (Jun 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *OneCatholicMommy*
Hmmm. You could sure try to be a bit gentle with ME.

So tell me, how should I handle that issue with my son?

What I would do with my sons in that situation is to offer my help.
"Ds, if you are too tired to pick up your blocks by yourself then I will help you."


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## PM (Nov 19, 2001)

First, I would have addressed the initial refusal. I think allowing him to wait till after dinner only fuels his desire to not do it at all. I would openly express my feelings about leaving the mess. I'm going to give an example of what I think your feelings may have been, but I am not saying that's exactly how you felt:

"Ds we need to clean up this mess before dinner."
"I don' wanna!"
"Yes, sometimes it seems like a big job to clean up, doesn't it? (you can pause for his reaction to this) But it makes me feel so anxious when there's a mess somewhere that I can't really enjoy dinner. Let's see! I bet ya can't clean up this mess before I'm done singing the Alphabet Song!" Or I may have said, "...so let's work together to get this mess cleaned up super-duper quickly!"

And then say, "Hey! You're all done! Thanks for helping me clean up that mess."

I hope that helps.

And yah, sometimes he's going to hand you one or two objects and be done with it. You can either wait that out -- just sit there and wait till he helps, or you can thank him for the help he did give and leave it at that.

PS For the record, when I said I was emotionally reactive, I didn't mean angry -- probably more like spiteful.

I feel the need to add a disclaimer that this isn't how things would go in our house, where piles of playthings in the living room and bedroom are pretty common.


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