# what do you do when your 2 year old runs away from you...update #37



## groovynaturemama (Mar 8, 2007)

everywhere you go and throws a fit when you try to contain them? do you stay home? leave them with someone so you can get things done? bribes? i am







: i'm frustrated and need to vent...

dd is 23 mos. when we go anywhere she will not stay in a cart, a stroller, nothing. i wore her up until she was about 19 mos, until my pg. back couldn't take anymore.

today we went to the chiropractor. my pelvis is out of alignment big time. i had a talk with her before we left for the doc, when we got there and as we were in the lobby waiting to be called. i verbalized what i expected of her and the consequences if she didn't (staying on mom's lap). there were plenty of toys there for dd to play with, but all she wanted to do was get the magazines and brochures, pull them all out of the holders, run to exam rooms, open the doors and interrupt other patients. my 6 mo. pregnant self with a jacked up sacrum could barely get up fast enough to grab her, as she entered the room, swoop her up, and appolgize to other clients. she then threw a fit each time, and i sat her on my lap, face to face, talked to her about why that wasn't ok, and that when she does that it is time to sit with mama. then in the exam room she tried to destroy everything she could! everytime i tried to put her in my lap or get a hold of her to talk to her about it, she'd scream and throw a fit. she opened the door and tried to escape several times. then the chiropractopr comes in, and dd won't quit asking her for soap... i guess she wanted to was her hands, so we let her wash her hands, then she kept on asking for more. finally the doc "kicked" her out of the exam room and left the receptionists to tend to her. i warned her that dd would not behave and was interrupting in exam rooms, but the receptionists said dd would be fine with them. i warned them about dd's quick ability to reprogram a computer, her ability to escape and run fast, and let them have her. i hear dd causing a ruckus, running down the hall, the receptionist running after her, them trying to get her engaged in play with the toys instead of all the things she shouldn't touch. all the while she was opening the door to the room i was in and saying hi, we'd close the door to keep her in, then she'd open it while i was getting adjusted and escape. this went on the whole time. the receptionist, who was very friendly to me upon our arrival, looked frazzled and i totally got the vibe that she was not fond of watching my dd (even though she offered to before i went in the room when she saw how dd was behaving). she was rather short with me when i made my follow up appt., and walked away from the desk without saying if we were all taken care of or not. i finally asked if we were done when she came back and all she said was "yeah". all during this time dd was sitting on the lobby bench with another pregnant mama looking at a photo album of babies, and i just felt like dd was "bothering" her. dd goes up to anyone and everyone right now and it makes me really nervous, but i have such a hard time preventing it in a setting like a doc's office.

is this just the way a spirited 2 y/o is? can i do anything to curb this, or is it a natural order of things and it'll improve with guidance and reinforcement? i feel like i'm the mom who people see in the store and think "wow. she can't control that kid of hers!" and it's true. however, i don't think that kids can be controlled. i mean, yeah i verbalize things to her, but i don't know that she is at the level where she "gets it". i think she understands my words, but cannot connect behaviors to consequences before she does something.

anybody been through this? what do you do? when does it end? tell me it'll get better!!!


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## mama_mojo (Jun 5, 2005)

I think there are some situations in which a small child must be restrained for the health of everyone involved. I'm not sure how popular an idea that will be, but the situation you described was bad for everybody, even your DD. She's too little to have that much control over that many people. Is there some way to keep her in a stroller, or is she an escape artist? I understand she would have a fit at being restrained, but your health does actually come before her right to run around.

If she is the sort to escape every sort of stroller restraint... I don't know.


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## foreverinbluejeans (Jun 21, 2004)

Time for the child harness and leash. This is a safety issue. They make really cute ones now. My son almost ran out in the street when he got away from me when I was alone with him and very pregnant.


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## imbarefoot (Feb 4, 2007)

I've always hated the idea of a child harness, but in situations where she could get in harms way (for instance, walking through a parkinglot, or taking off in a public place) I would definitely try one out in your situation. But first, I would try the sling.

For places like the chiro's office, I wouldn't take her with you anymore. If you think she will be that disruptive, I would schedule things like that around childcare.

When my child throws a tantrum after correcting her, I try to find a spot, alone, away from most people, where I can get down on her level and look at her face to face making eye contact and listen to her, validate her and then empower her to find a solution to whatever is upsetting her. If she absolutely will not calm down, I simply leave the store. Sometimes i'll ask to keep my cart somewhere where I can come back and get it once she is calmed down. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I do and it ends up that she won't calm down, so I just drive home. Unfortunetly, that does come with the age, especially with a spirited child.

I do always try to prepare her for everthing though. Days in advance, then in the morning, on the way, etc. I make sure she's well fed, plenty warm or not too hot, and has had good sleep. If she's sick or didn't sleep well, I don't even attempt things.

It does get better though! ((hugs))


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I remember taking my two kids to the chiropractor (I started going after being in a minor car accident when they were 5mo and 21mo) and they stayed strapped in the stroller the whole time. When DD1 was in a "climb out of everything" phase, I used a harness that she couldn't get out of (and looped the harness through the stroller straps.)

If my kid threw a fit, then she threw a fit. I never gave into tantrums, especially in public. They quickly learned to stay close to me in public places, because they'd be strapped into the stroller if they didn't listen. I'm sure part of it was their personalities as well.

It really sounds like your child is not mature enough to contain herself when she's overstimulated. IMO, she needs to be in a stroller in these situations- you're not physically capable of restraining her, and she's not mature enough to sit quietly by your side.

It also wouldn't hurt to get her adjusted the next time your'e at the chiropractor. It may or may not have any effect on her ability to sit still and focus, but it's good for her overall health.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

I agree with Ruthla. When my kids were in the bolty, run around-y stage, they either were in a stroller or a cart - they may not have been happy about it, but IMO their right to be free and explore ends where they start disturbing other people, even if it is developmentally appropriate. If they threw a fit I would take them as far away from action as I could so we weren't quite as disturbing, or take them outside for a bit (while keeping them in teh stroller), and empathize and validate with them and explain why they had to be in the stroller or wherever, but I wouldn't take them out of it. I'd bring toys and snacks, and when I had appointments even our portable DVD player, so I oculd make it as easy as possible for them, but I wouldn't take them out of the stroller. Before we would be going into wherever we were going, I would briefly talk to them about what I expected, and why they would go in the cart/stroller if they couldn't do it, and then I would follow through, even if they were unhappy. If I could, I'd leave them home (which didn't happen often with DD so she got over the fits on the cart/stroller pretty quickly once she realized I wouldn't let her down to disturb others or run away from me). They both started the phase around 18-20 months (I wore DD on my back until she was about 16 months); DS outgrew running around right around 3 years old, DD is 2 yrs 9 months and has largely outgrown it. And I feel your pain about beign pregnant with a runner...DD was born when DS was 30 months old, right in the thick of his running phase. Picture me chasing him down in the library with DD on me in a Moby as a newborn, and hauling him out of the library kicking and screaming. Charming.







So I do have a lot of sympathy/empathy for you, I promise.

I did use a harness with DD a few times in places where strollers were inconvenient (fairs, a bowling alley) and that worked pretty well, too.

Honestly, in your situation I would have rescheduled and left with her. Her being upset about being in a cart/stroller is not IMO enough reason to not do it, when the alternative is that she tears up the joint and majorly disrupts others.


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## petitchou (Mar 10, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *The4OfUs* 
DD was born when DS was 30 months old, right in the thick of his running phase. Picture me chasing him down in the library with DD on me in a Moby as a newborn, and hauling him out of the library kicking and screaming. Charming.







So I do have a lot of sympathy/empathy for you, I promise.

Oh thank goodness I'm not going to be the only one!









I'm pregnant too and I don't go anywhere by myself with ds without a stroller anymore. And I think I'm going to pull out our child harness soon too. I just can't physically carry him anymore and I can't keep up with him when he takes off running. He won't keep his arms in the stroller straps and he'll try to stand up and get out when upset but he can't unclasp the buckle (yet) so he is still restrained.

I don't think we're near the end yet (ds is 28 months) but I am starting to see more cooperation sometimes. We had a horrible instance at the pharmacy last week where I agreed to let him walk as long as he stayed with me - which ended one minute later with me strapping a kicking and screaming toddler into the stroller while explaning that no, he couldn't run like a screaming banshee all over the pharmacy disrupting everyone. But just two days ago he wanted to try walking in the store with Mommy again. And after a brief reminder that he needed to stay with me, he walked very calmly and patiently with me while I got what I needed. It was only about 2 minutes (didn't have what I needed anyway) but at least I know there is hope!


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## poiyt (Jul 6, 2008)

I dont think its very gentle to forcibly restrain a child and just let them tantrum and scream. While i do recognize that sometimes we must restrain (in the nicest sense) our children for their safety, or when everyone's needs have been considered and thats the only solution - but things like chiropractors appts and what not can be cancelled and rescheduled, they can be worked around. If your child isnt having the day where they can go and wait with you - then you simply shouldnt go (given the above).

Children are sometimes incapable (depending on age etc) or controlling their tantrums, and its their only way - to not respect that, is to not respect them - IMO. What is the difference then between not respecting their wishes and restraining them in a stroller while they scream and not respecting their wishes by saying "no" all the time, or never letting them chose what they eat/wear etc....

I dont know...I guess Im more on the consensual end of the GD spectrum...if I want or expect my kids to have patience and respect me, especially on my difficult days - I have to model that behaviour and do the same with them...


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## demottm (Nov 15, 2006)

I am totally in this boat! I also feel badly about restraining my ds(just turned 3). I don't strap him into anything except his carseat. This decision has caused me some stress because I could have sworn that was me telling your story. I have had to drag my son out of almost everywhere. But I want him to learn how to control himself. I had one success last night when we went to the co-op. They have these little carts for kids to push and my little boy pushed it slowly through the whole store, with me coaching. Things do get better...I have to believe so. Hang in there Mama!


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## aydensmama (Jun 2, 2005)

Long time lurker in this forum....

I either don't bring my little ones where they cannot behave, or tell them they have to be in the stroller- with items to entertain like a pp mentioned. This means a dvd player, snacks, drinks, etc. I do a lot of talking, I spy games, singing, etc. For mine, they may ask if they can get out, and I explain no, not know, when we are.... They don't tantrum, but they might be a little upset until they realize there are entertainment items.

Also- something that has really worked for me- if my child is running away from me- down a hallway, etc. I stop. Dead in my tracks, and say Mommy is not coming until you come back to me and walk. We do not run, Mommy does not run, so come back and turn around. If this is started at the right age- in safe areas, they will come back and it will become a habit. I have had to step around corners and be out of sight, while peaking, but mostly mine have not wanted to be left alone, and they know they have to start over if they run away.

Good luck- there was a year or so- we did not go out that much where they were not happily contained until the stage has passed.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poiyt* 
Children are sometimes incapable (depending on age etc) or controlling their tantrums, and its their only way - to not respect that, is to not respect them - IMO. What is the difference then between not respecting their wishes and restraining them in a stroller while they scream and not respecting their wishes by saying "no" all the time, or never letting them chose what they eat/wear etc...

I don't believe respecting a tantrum means giving them whatever they are tantruming about. I don't punish for tantrums, I don't shame for tantrums, I don't say, "since you can't be a good girl you have to sit here strapped into this stroller"...I simply let the tantrum be what it is (a BIG release of frustration), I validate their upset, I empathize that it's hard to have to sit somewhere boring with mom when you don't want to and explain why in this situation it's necessary...IMO I'm very respectful - they may not like it, but that doesn't mean I'm not being respectful to them. Enforcing a boundary is not in and of itself disrespectful. But also IMO at this age and stage if their impulse control isn't there, it just isn't there, and if you have nobody to leave them at home with or they INSIST on coming with you (as my DD did, she would cry for me even if I left her with my husband, up until a few months ago), there are few choices other than having them in a cart or stroller...because chasing an impulsive toddler around putting out fires (figuratively) is not very agreeable to me, nor I'm sure to the people they are bothering whilst running amok...as I said in my previous post, my kids' right to run around and disturb things ends when they start disturbing people or businesses.

Further, I personally value the ability to get over minor disappointments (even if they are voiced in major ways, like tantrums), and while I don't go out of my way to create scenarios in which my kids become unhappy, I also don't personally want to regularly negotiate day to day errand/task situations (like groceries, and doctor appointments, etc. - other stuff I do negotiate, surely) because I feel it gives them too much power, and gives the implication that negative/boring experiences should always be avoided or tried to be worked around. And that's not something I agree with, either.

While I admire consensual living and often think about how I can work consensual solutions into our lives, I am not a consensually living parent; nonetheless, I parent in a way that most definitely falls under gentle discipline.


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## petitchou (Mar 10, 2008)

I thought I would NEVER force my child into a stroller. And I try to avoid it whenever possible.

But sometimes you really don't have a choice. Well, I guess there is a choice - we could leave the pharmacy/cancel the doctor's appt and reschedule/whatever the situation is. But what if someone is really sick or needs the medicine? What if it takes a month to get another appt? What if we have no food in the house and need to eat? I don't have a car either so without a stroller, I would be stuck - there's no way I could carry a flailing toddler all the way home, let alone on a bus.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aydensmama* 
Also- something that has really worked for me- if my child is running away from me- down a hallway, etc. I stop. Dead in my tracks, and say Mommy is not coming until you come back to me and walk. We do not run, Mommy does not run, so come back and turn around. If this is started at the right age- in safe areas, they will come back and it will become a habit. I have had to step around corners and be out of sight, while peaking, but mostly mine have not wanted to be left alone, and they know they have to start over if they run away.

This made me laugh. My mom did this to me once in a store - I never ran off again. But it never ever worked for ds. I remember watching his back go off and looking at dh and wondering 'do we go get him? how long do we let this go on? how far is he going to go??...' Once he was off on a mission, there was no turning back...


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I think harnesses are great for kids this age. The child gets what he/she wants, the ability to move around a bit, and the parent gets what he/she wants, the child to be safe. And I have yet to see a child who didn't love his/her harness. My dd wanted one, but as she was an only child I was able to keep her with me without one. But I absolutely would have gotten one otherwise.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

if having someone stay home with your child is an option then I would definitely go that route.

Of course you will want to try to bring her with you sometimes, so she can learn to stay near you. sometimes it takes a lot of trial and error to find a gentle way to do this. in the process, you may not have a gentle option in mind, or the gentle options you are trying won't work, and you will do whatever is necessary for the safety of everyone involved. but, you move forward from that and think of ideas for the next time. sometimes what didnt work the first time may work in subsequent tries as well.

So, while you may feel some sort of restraint is your only option, if I were in that situation I would not accept that as my only option permenantly. Maybe at the time I felt it was my only option, but going into the future I would keep looking for more and more options.

I understand how hard it can be. My DD has always been a "runner" but with lots of patience and gentle redirection it has stopped. I have never had to restrain her, but the truth is sometimes I had to redirect her many many times. Knowing this in advance, for things like a grocery store trip I would leave as far in advance as possible as to allow time for lots of redirection, for things like a dr's appointment (like when I was pregnant with DS2) I would try to get there as close to my appointment as possible so she wouldnt have to wait as long.

Some things that worked with my "runner" were:
bringing special snacks
bringing special toys that were only for these types of "trips"
keeping her engaged while waiting - walking around and "showing' her and talking to her about things in the room - objects, posters, etc.
Stepping outside for a minute to get some fresh air
Stepping aside for a minute to get out of the way of all the stimulation
Playing hand games, like pat a cake, and at the end of saying and mark it with a B I say and tickle ____ (my daughters name) and tickle her

If she wanted to play with magazines and brocures I would take a small handful and say "you can play with some of the brochures but we need to leave some for others" and let her "make a mess" of those things

letting her write on things was one of her favorites also

and finally just lots of redirection. if she went to the brochures I would pick her up and sit her back in her seat. repeat. repeat. repeat. repeat. repeat.

if she got upset "you REALLY want to make a mess of those brochures. that looks fun. waiting takes a lot of patience, and its boring!"

and remember, one of the skills you want your daughter to learn in waiting in the drs office is patience. one way to teach this is to model patience by being patient with her.

also make sure to make plenty of time for her to run around and explore freely at other times. Get some supplies she can make a mess of in the backyard or at the park if you dont have a backyard or in your house if you are brave, or in the bathtub if you dont want to go anywhere but dont want the house a mess (finger paints, water stuff, sand stuff, rice containers, paper, foam, measuring cups, etc) play games where she does get to run around. We play a game called "go go go STOP" which is just that. I run around with my kids and say go go go STOP and then I freeze. at first they didnt freeze but with my modeling they began to freeze. If they didnt stop I said "you forgot to stop!" and then we would try again.

I would play chase with them and sometimes say "you ran and I came after you! this is a fun game at home, but dangerous when we aren't"

i would also give the option of running WITH them in the parking lot. "you like to go fast! but you need to go fast WITH mommy"

There is really so much you can do, probably a ton of things I am forgetting, and some or all of these things may not work for you for different reasons but the point of me sharing all this is that the possibilities are endless. while you may try some of these things and they dont work, and you may do something you wish you didnt have to (like restraint) because you feel your options have been exhausted, that doesn't mean your options are permenantly exhausted. you can learn what works and what doesnt and be prepared for the next time with some new ideas.


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## The4OfUs (May 23, 2005)

SGM makes some good points and has good ideas about distracting a small child, many of which I've used myself; my usual thing was that every few weeks I would try not having the child in the stroller or cart, and just deal with them loose, and try that a couple times, but if they were still showing over the span of a couple trips that they weren't ready to be loose yet we'd go back to the stroller/cart for a while, and then in a few weeks try again....it wasn't like one trip was a disaster and they were in a stroller/cart for the next 2 years with no attempts at being unrestrained until they were 4...it was ongoing conversations and trials of not being in a stroller/cart, *but* the end result was if they were being impulsive/destructive they would wind up in the cart/stroller to finish up the trip so that whatever it was that needed to be done was done.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

yep that's pretty much what im saying the4ofus, only I don't accept that end result as the must-be end result on the following trip (sounds like you don't either). I learn from the previous trip and try to figure out what would be necessary the next time.

luckily, DD learned very quickly, and so did I!

Oh another one was, if I was able to bring someone with me to help with my children while I was in an appointment I would.

To be honest though, I can't remember one time I had to restrain my child, because I was willing to redirect redirect redirect redirect redirect as many times as it took. but, there were times that I felt I had to do more redirecting then necessary so that was when I would brainstorm for the next time.

So redirecting was my "end result" where many here would use restraint. and thats okay - im just saying if you dont like the end result you dont have to accept it for the next time - just brainstorm new ways to prevent ending up at the same end result. and if you do, whether it be redirection or restraint, thats OK - just keep plugging away at ideas for the time after that.

We also have done a "redo" a few times. Like when I walk my son to school and he walks across the grass instead of the side walk. I will pick him up (using the side walk to get to him, unless dangerous to do so) then walk back onthe sidewalk to the starting point of where he went the wrong way, and rewalk it, walking on the sidewalk this time.... we only had to do that once. I wasn't mean about it so it wasn't a power struggle - I wouldnt recommend doing a "redo" in a forceful way. but you may be able to modify that and apply it to your situation.

Also, when walking somewhere we use short goals. My son is very observant and wants to look at everything on the walk to school. to keep him "on track" we leave early, and visit everything that is _on the way_, for him, he likes to go from sign to sign and I read the sign to him and he walks to the next one, which I will point out to him if he doesn't notice on his own. this keeps him from wandering over to see the dog statue in one person's front yard, or bush of flowers in another. though we will point to those things along the way, and admire from the sidewalk..


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## groovynaturemama (Mar 8, 2007)

op here. i certainly appreciate all of the responses. i am feeling so flustered every time we go anywhere, and the insight/ideas/suggestions you all gave are great!

she can escape from a stroller and will climb out of a shopping cart; she won't stop trying until we leave, either, all the while vocalizing. i don't know how she gets out of the restraints, i do them up tight, but she wiggles and writhes until she can get free, all the while i am trying to keep her contained and it doesn't go well. my explaining, my reasoning, my giving choices... none of it is working right now out in public, and it makes it very tough to get through an appointment, let alone a shopping trip. it also discourages me from wanting to take her anywhere, but my current childcare situation is such that leaving her with someone for the majority of things i do is not an option right now. dh is out of town right now, but i still have appointments that i can only go to during his working hours when he is in town. i'm not sure that cancelling these appointments is an option; it takes long enough to get in as it is, and i'd only be rescheduling for a time that i'd still have to bring her.

some of the things that were mentioned i do. i bring her snacks (that will ALWAYS do her well for 10 minutes or so), special toys, bring things to draw/write on, etc. usually she eats, but she won't play with the toy, and she just wants to take the crayon or colored pencil and use them on something other than what i brought. i redirect a lot, but sometimes i feel like it's futile and only ends in a tantrum.

i def. could have tried to keep her more engaged though. i wasn't very good at that yesterday and my patience had worn quite thin. i gave it minimal effort and i think she picked up on the fact that i just wasn't into it at the moment. to be perfectly honest i was so flustered and my back was hurting so much that i practically gave up.

i will def remove her from the situation next time. maybe try taking her outside to the car. she could move freely, but be contained as well.

i have a harness too. i tried it once a few months ago, and dd refused to walk with it on. it was the little dog backpack one. she looked at me sat on the ground and crossed her arms. i felt like i was breaking her spirit







it's been in my coat closet ever since. maybe i'll try it again and get a different result.

i def. agree that she's overstimulated and not at a maturity level where she knows how to contain herself. i think i fell off my patience horse too, and the combination led to a less than ideal situation. knowing that my kid isn't the only one and that there are a miriad of options that i can use gives me some comfort for sure. i had thoughts of becoming a hermit until after both kids were at least 5







now i know it doesn't have to be like that.


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## kcparker (Apr 6, 2008)

Maybe my son is just mellower than average, or maybe we haven't gotten to the flight and disruption stage yet (he does love to wander quickly in the library), so I might not have the right solution. This is what works pretty well for us: when I have had to take him to a place where he needs to be quiet and mellow, I do my best to make sure he gets a good run-around immediately BEFORE we go where we are going. If he spends an hour or 90 minutes at the playground or running free in a park, he has already spent some of that energy, and it's easier to distract him with little toys, books, or food when we are in a place where he needs to be calm. I agree with what PPs said about distraction and redirection, playing physically engaging games (but I am also not pregnant and can still do things like hoist DS onto my shoulders or hold him upside down easily), and also picking your time of day. If you know that the child is super-energetic from 9-noon but has a calmer hour from 8-9, schedule that stuff before she's really awake enough to make a ruckus.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

yes redirection can seem futile at times (hugs) and the tantrums can be hard. The thing is, that something ending in a tantrum doesn't mean you didn't do the right things - and im sure while restrained she isn't too happy either. so redirection I think is your best bet. sounds like you are having a very tough time!

this article on tantrums may help.
http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr.../tantrums.html

You know, we all only have so much patience. we all can run out at times. its very hard. Can I suggest that while you prepare her before a trip out of the house, you prepare yourself too? Can you look at yourself and say "these are my triggers, and I'm in pain today and not feeling very patient. It's going to be very hard for me today to keep redirecting her and stay calm" sometimes acknowledging that before the fact can help tremendously.

the kiddie eashes work great for some kids and not with others. i feel they would not work with mine.

overstimulation is hard. My sons sensory issues and overstimulation plays into a lot. If there is anything sensory going on with your daughter, that adds a whole new gammat of things you can do to calm her down in advance. Do you think there may be some sensory issues going on that contribute to her overstimulation?


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kcparker* 
Maybe my son is just mellower than average, or maybe we haven't gotten to the flight and disruption stage yet (he does love to wander quickly in the library), so I might not have the right solution. This is what works pretty well for us: when I have had to take him to a place where he needs to be quiet and mellow, I do my best to make s*ure he gets a good run-around immediately BEFORE we go where we are going.* If he spends an hour or 90 minutes at the playground or running free in a park, he has already spent some of that energy, and it's easier to distract him with little toys, books, or food when we are in a place where he needs to be calm. I agree with what PPs said about distraction and redirection, playing physically engaging games (but I am also not pregnant and can still do things like hoist DS onto my shoulders or hold him upside down easily), and also picking your time of day. If you know that the child is super-energetic from 9-noon but has a calmer hour from 8-9, schedule that stuff before she's really awake enough to make a ruckus.

I want to say this is great advice for some children, and the opposite of this is great advice for others lol. some children running around right before going somewhere would hype them up, and they would leave the house already over stimulated. other children, need to expend as much energy as possible before being calm. they all need to expend energy, you will need to figure out if your child needs to do it a few hours before you leave, so she is calm before you do, or do it right before you go. My kids get really hyper when they are tired lol, go figure. so they like to expend that energy right before bed. - yet at the same time, my son can get overstimulated during this time, and that can cause other problems. So as you can imagine, that's a tough situation as he gets hyper when tired, but then gets overstimulated.

excellent advice on trying to schedule appointments around her relaxed times. some children (my daughter) do well when we go out when she is TIRED - even though that is a trigger for most children to have a tantrum! other children need to not be tired, and if they are tired will have a tough time while out.


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## imbarefoot (Feb 4, 2007)

How many hours a day is she playing ouside? I would make sure she's getting plenty each day to burn her energy. ((hugs))


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## groovynaturemama (Mar 8, 2007)

SGM- i do not think that dd has any sensory issues. i just think she's a very spirited child whoe gets overstimulated in situations that are new and different. i think we're at a developmental stage where this is the norm for a while. she wants to explore everything.

dd does not do well when she is tired. it induces tantrums, so i try and schedule outings for after she's napped. usually things go a bit better than yesterday. i do think yesterday's appointment was the worst, and i can't help but wonder if she's missing her dad and acting out in some way. he's been gone for a class in CO since sunday and she didn't ge to see him on skype the night before (we've been using skype to chat each night, but she fell asleep early that night). she's never been away from him for more than a night, so i think that may be a factor in her behavior? fwiw her and her dad are quite bonded.

i do need to start preparing myself before we go out. i think that may help tremendously.

imbarefoot- dd gets out of the house for a couple hours a day. thing is that her supply of energy seems somewhat endless right now


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

definitely her dad being away could have an effect on behavior! (hugs) it is very normal for children at that age to get overstimulated, especially spirited children. HAd to throw the sensory issue out there. My mom didnt think I had them growing up, as an adult I can see I did (and still do) and how my mom would have helped me so much more if she had realized it. You would probably know since you are in touch, my mom was NOT, but that was the only reason I mentioned it... sensory issues can be any of the senses. for me and my son its things touching us, for some children its lights/sounds/visual stimulation that sets them off. anyway, I hope you feel like you have a better plan for the future. I think it's good you are empathizing with what might be going on with your child (her father being away) and acknowledging that you were feelings off (in pain, low patience) that day - those things will play a role, and if you can acknowledge then that in itself should help you in the future.


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## Rico'sAlice (Mar 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liss_420* 
it also discourages me from wanting to take her anywhere, but my current childcare situation is such that leaving her with someone for the majority of things i do is not an option right now. dh is out of town right now, but i still have appointments that i can only go to during his working hours when he is in town. i'm not sure that cancelling these appointments is an option; it takes long enough to get in as it is, and i'd only be rescheduling for a time that i'd still have to bring her.

Things like grocery shopping you can break into smaller shorter trips so that you can be ready to leave by the time DD can no longer cooperate. I can generally keep DS cool for 10-15 minutes by letting him push the cart, help me get things off the shelf, etc. Then it is time to go!

But with appointments it seems like you are in a really tough spot! I can't imagine there is any way my DS would manage to be calm waiting for/during an appointment for me. I occasionally bring him with me to appointments for the man I take care of, but am able to interact with him nearly dthe whole time. I wouldn't feel comfortable requiring my child to be restrained against his will for more than a few minutes unless we were in a moving vehicle. Because of the way he reacts, _I_ would feel like I was making him CIO.

If you can't find/afford acceptable actual child care for all of these appointments so that DD doesn't have to come every time then maybe you can find an older child to come with you to hang out with DD? You would still have to be responsible, but they could do the interacting.


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## mrsfatty (Dec 21, 2004)

Honestly, "you hold my hand nicely, or you must sit in your stroller, which would you like--holding hands or stroller?" If she feels like she has a choice, then it may go better (when my son mastered holding hands nicely, I let him decide if he wanted to hold my hand or hold the elephant on the stroller--I had a toy elephant hanging off the side of the stroller. If he let go, I'd remind him, "elephant"--if he chose not to listen then I'd remind him he needed to hold the elephant or my hand, otherwise he'd end up in the stroller--which he didn't want.)

The first few times there will be fits over it--but then they just accept it. Safety before "wants" and "freedom."

Also, talking about WHY running away is bad ("it scares me when you run away")

Also, giving her opportunities to run...in a safe environment.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

I don't think you have to be a hermit for years, but for a couple of weeks, it might break the cycle. If my children aren't cooperating, I really try not to go somewhere. It just isn't worth it to me. I remember being pregnant made outings even harder b/c physically I didn't feel so hot.

I hope you find a babysitter. I just cannot take my children with me to appointments anymore. Sometimes I have to, but as a rule I try not to. One time recently I took my 2yo and let him sit in a stroller with a lollipop. I knew there would not be a long wait. Another one, I had to really be creative playing games while we waited. We waited a long time, and by the end of it, I was really at a loss as to how to keep 2 bored children from touching everything in a tiny room.

What about a leap pad? Or a doodle pad? Those color wonder markers? Something really cool and different would probably be cheaper than a babysitter. Pretty soon she will be old enough for raisins. Those buy me a good 15 minutes with my 2yo.


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## Ks Mama (Aug 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aydensmama* 
Also- something that has really worked for me- if my child is running away from me- down a hallway, etc. I stop. Dead in my tracks, and say Mommy is not coming until you come back to me and walk. We do not run, Mommy does not run, so come back and turn around. If this is started at the right age- in safe areas, they will come back and it will become a habit. I have had to step around corners and be out of sight, while peaking, but mostly mine have not wanted to be left alone, and they know they have to start over if they run away.

HAHA! Seriously, this does NOT work with my children. They might stop for a moment to listen to what I'm saying, but then they take off again. Then I'm forced to do what I just said I wouldn't.... which really defeats the purpose. I never make threats I'm not willing/able to follow through with.

Strong willed, my kids. But might work for some!


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## SunShineSally (Jan 18, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *foreverinbluejeans* 
Time for the child harness and leash. This is a safety issue. They make really cute ones now. My son almost ran out in the street when he got away from me when I was alone with him and very pregnant.


I had one for Ds I know that some are totally against it. But when my Ds ran away from me and I couldn't find him for like 4 minutes, My tune on them changed I hated hated them until this happened. I have gotten looks from people and even comments. When I have I just smiled and said "I know my son is safe and learning how to walk appropreately in busy places so please kindly be more polite, and keep your looks and comments to yourself." Ds had a monkey backpack he could keep a sippy and small toy in it I took some stuffing out to fit them in it. Ds loved it and he walks really good he started to walk really really good at 3 1/2


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

I just read the OP and it sounds _just like_ my 2.5 year old and _exactly_ like how Abigail was at that age, too. I also dealt with the situation much the same way as you do. I stay home almost all the time and they do the same thing here at home as they did in public. Luckily, the people at my dental office were very patient, loving and compassionate with my daughters and me at my last appointment.(and the place has a kiddie room with books and movies and little chairs, which they won't stay in). There are no doors on the exam rooms. I'm now off to read responses to your post.

ETA: I'm envious you are seeing a chiropractor. I have no medical insurance and no money and I've been in pain since my pregnancy with Abigail.

ETA: I can't choose to not bring my children. I have no childcare for them.

I have tried to use a stroller in the past and the other one sets her free. They both can now set themselves free, of course. I have used a harness on Abigail in a store once... it was not at all successful... she ended up wanting to hit the end of it so she'd spin, which was not good on my back, but was loads of fun for her. I haven't tried it with Sophia, but I imagine that as gymnastic and energetic as she is, she'd just love it, too, and she'd end up flying up through the air, by her own launch power, and fly right into someone. (Yeah, I have an active imagination)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Super Glue Mommy* 
My kids get really hyper when they are tired lol, go figure. so they like to expend that energy right before bed. - yet at the same time, my son can get overstimulated during this time, and that can cause other problems. So as you can imagine, that's a tough situation as he gets hyper when tired, but then gets overstimulated.

That sounds just like Sophia, hyper when tired, runs around and then is overstimulated.


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## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *poiyt* 
I dont think its very gentle to forcibly restrain a child and just let them tantrum and scream. While i do recognize that sometimes we must restrain (in the nicest sense) our children for their safety, or when everyone's needs have been considered and thats the only solution - but things like chiropractors appts and what not can be cancelled and rescheduled, they can be worked around. If your child isnt having the day where they can go and wait with you - then you simply shouldnt go (given the above).

Do you think that your solution - not taking kids to places where the might not be able to control themselves - is always workable. I'm a single mom, and I am living abroad, with my family back in the US and Holland. so basically, they tend to come everywhere with me. Fortunately I have never had these issues come up really badly.

Also, while I do believe in trying to find a consensus, consensus is not letting your kids have their way when you can't agree, IMO.


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## MittensKittens (Oct 26, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
ETA: I can't choose to not bring my children. I have no childcare for them.

Exactly. Also, don't you think that not taking kids to places means that they will miss out on a lot of learning situations, including learning to sit quietly when they have to?


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## momma_unlimited (Aug 10, 2008)

My husbadn goes out of town a lot (or used to) and I have two. I remember when I had a baby and 2 yr old. We "practiced" outings. This meant I would venture out for fresh air and a change of scenery to a place we would usually frequent- grocery store, salvation army- with NO agenda. I would explain what I wanted very clearly behaviour wise, and that if everyone didn't cooperate we would leave right away and try it again another time to practice our cooperation.

We left a couple times. I remember one week I went to the Salvation Army 4 days in a row at the same time, because I NEEDED spring clothes after pregnancy weight changes, and I didn't have much else to do. First trip- 15 minutes. No go. Second, 1 hr. Then a tanrtum broke out. Third trip, 90 minutes. Fourth trip, 90 minutes. And the fourth time they were ANGELS.

Also, with things like sitting on the lap, I found it helpful to practice sitting on the lap AT HOME, at random times, occasionally when ds was engrossed in something else. This was NOT to be mean; it was to help prepare him for those times in public when he would be interested in something he couldn't touch.

I


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## webjefita (Aug 16, 2003)

I didn't read the replies, but wanted to offer my experience.

I have two boys, 3 and 5. They rarely run away from me because I have made a concerted effort to teach them to follow me. When we go anywhere, I make sure that I lead the way and have enough confidence that they will have confidence in me. Nothing good can come of them separating themselves from me. They have experimented with running off, but I made the decision that I will not chase after them, whether it's in a store or in the backyard. Since they were about two I would take them to the store and tell them which way we were going, what they needed to do, etc. and if they decided to go down a side aisle, I would not go after them, but sometimes peek around the corner and then wait for them to come back. I never gave them the impression that I even thought it possible that they would run away! Sometimes I just kept on walking until they made their way back to me.

When the firstborn was a baby I read Continuum Concept and I am reareading it again. She talks about the irony that civilized humans are the only mammal whose young run away from them. All other mammals including the primitve societies she observed, the young follow their mothers. It (the book) reinforces my belief that children are social animals and will do what is expected. It is uncomfortable and hard at times, but I do have to take a leap of faith and *trust* that my children will do what I expect of them. At least most of the time.

I'm trying to apply the same attitude to behaviors and routines in the household. It's really strange all the ways we communicate to our children that we actually expect them to disobey or behave badly. As Leidloff says, even a "look" that a misbehavior was no surprise to us. I am guilty of that. Assuming bad intent. Check again. It's a continual challenge to revise my expectations (raise them) and have faith in their own instinct to want to follow their elders. By uncomfortable I mean, I hear my older DS telling younger DS "Do you want me to hit you? Then..." And I can't run over there, ready to intervene, because I don't want to give him the impression that I think he *is* going to hit (and I need to stop it). So now I have to stay very calm and say, "You're not going to hit him, so don't say you are. Tell him what you want him to do." And take a big breath, waiting for it to work and for him to not hit!

Some great articles on the Web site. Try "Allowing Human Nature To Work Successfully: " if you haven't read it!


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## poiyt (Jul 6, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MittensKittens* 
Do you think that your solution - not taking kids to places where the might not be able to control themselves - is always workable. I'm a single mom, and I am living abroad, with my family back in the US and Holland. so basically, they tend to come everywhere with me. Fortunately I have never had these issues come up really badly.

Also, while I do believe in trying to find a consensus, consensus is not letting your kids have their way when you can't agree, IMO.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *MittensKittens* 
Exactly. Also, don't you think that not taking kids to places means that they will miss out on a lot of learning situations, including learning to sit quietly when they have to?

I dont think its about not taking your kids places...of course...we all have to be in situations we are not comfortable with, and dont want to be - and not letting kids go there deprives them of that learning opportunity. But at the same time - kids often get toted around and have to go all the places their parents want to go - because the parents HAVE to go. So instead of taking all your kids everywhere - Id take them to a select few things - and also do things they want to do.

Having a consensus is NOT letting kids get their way all the time. But, more often then not - who gets their way? The parents...because errands have to get done, the groceries have to be bought, teeth have to be brushed, people have to eat, peopple have to sleep...etc..etc..etc...I look at it this way, if I had to go to a prenatal appt and wanted my husband to come - but he told me or showed me through his actions that he was having a bad day and that being there would make him crankier - I wouldnt make him come. Though, even if I did, he would sit there quietly as all husbands do. Kids lack this control for the most part. If my child is having a bad day, I cancel the appointment and make it again for another day. If I cant cancel then I try to find someone who can stay home - if I absolutely HAVE to go the appt, and my kids absolutely have to come then I make sure everything leading up to that appt they realize is about them and how we are compromising so we can all get what we want/need.

Holy ramble batman!


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## groovynaturemama (Mar 8, 2007)

op here...

so today is the test... i have to go to the chiro again for a recheck, and dd must come along. i am going to implement taking her out to the car if she gets overstimulated and i will redirect and keep her engaged. my patience is coming with us today too.

i'll update when we get back.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

good luck! and remember, no matter what happens its a learning experience for both of you! sometimes we learn what works, sometimes we learn what doesn't work - but even if things don't got as planned you have not failed


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## groovynaturemama (Mar 8, 2007)

so... it went well today. the chiro was actually about 30 min. late in seeing me, but dd fared well. i worked to redirect and keep her engaged, and we read books (she actually sat still this time), played patty cake (which she LOVES), and brought her bear and a playsilk so she could play her "night night" game.

after about 15 minutes, she got a bit restless in the exam room (but no screaming or tantrums, just obviously bored of what we were doing. just then a receptionist came into the room to empty the trash and she invited dd to come with her. i followed them and saw that the lobby was empty and dd ran up and down the hall and would come back to play a bit and then go run again. when she went for the brochures i redirected her a few times before she went on to something elsethat she could do.

when the chiro was finally able to see me the receptionists said they'd just have her hang out with them. dd never even came into the room this time, nor did i hear a ruckus at all.

when i was done, dd was just being quiet with the receptionists and all was well. the lady who was short with me was nice this time but commented on how active dd was, and that usually it's only boys who have that much energy







i just smiled and said something about how active her father and i were as children and that apples don't fall far form the tree.

i was really happy about today, and the extra long wait was not a big deal at all. it gave me a chance to really put into practice the suggestions here and manage my own patience.

thanks mamas!


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *liss_420* 
the lady who was short with me was nice this time but commented on how active dd was, and that _usually it's only boys who have that much energy_









Yeah, I get that comment a lot, too.


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## tropicaldutchtulip (Jul 26, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Purity♥Lake~* 
Yeah, I get that comment a lot, too.










I get that as well with my twin girls! They are super busy and never stop!


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## nikkiboo31 (Mar 14, 2009)

hello moms, I am new to this and I was wondering if anyone could offer any advice on how to add the symbols to your signature. Thanks and sorry for thread to ask this.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nikkiboo31* 
any advice on how to add the symbols to your signature.

I sent you a pm. Check your mail.


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## Boot (Jan 22, 2008)

I've had this exact experience at the chiro too. I thought it was normal but I guess DS is a bit more of a handful than other toddlers. He doesn't tantrum though. He just persists with whatever he is doing and is impossible to redirect. He would never sit in my lap in a situation like that. What fun is that? Sorry, no advice, just sympathy.


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## Super Glue Mommy (Jan 4, 2009)

I just read your update and im SO glad to hear how well it went! do you think "feeling" more prepared better equipped you? do you think your daughter was able to pick up on your patience and preparedness and that maybe that helped her respond well today too? im really glad to hear your update, sounds like you handled things wonderfully, and the help from the office staff was nice too (minus to ignorant remark lol)


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## labdogs42 (Jan 21, 2009)

Yippee!! I read all of the previous posts and I'm so glad to hear that the follow up visit went well! It sounds like just planning to succeed helped you tremendously. What a great message to us all! Glad to hear it went so well!!


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## Ligeia (Jul 24, 2006)

I have noticed with my 2.5 year old that her behavioral problems stem largely from blood sugar issues. If she is hungry, she will turn into a crazy girl and she will completely disregard me when we're out in public. I bring snacks for her where ever we go and since I've started doing that, she's been much better. Also, like other mommas have said, having a discussion about what kinds of things are expected of her in the car before we get out to go somewhere has seemed to help. When I was pregnant and exasperated, I think she definitely took advantage of that. I would squat down to her level a lot and tell her that if she couldn't listen/calm down/etc we would go out to the car and just leave because it is clear she couldn't handle being out right now. She listened pretty well to that. I also started doing a quick energy release before leaving like get her dancing around to a couple of songs first (she has some instruments that we pull out for her) or jumping on the trampoline (when I couldn't jump with her I'd try to get her to show me how high she could jump so that she'd exercise herself). That's all I can think of right now! It sounds like you're getting some good advice here. Just remember that it will pass and your pregnancy will be over soon and things will be easier!


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## flower01 (Aug 1, 2007)

I just had to add one thing that no one really mentioned and since the OP was asking about a particular circumstance at the chiropractor's I feel like this is worth thinking about. I've worked for a number of Chiropractor's and though not all are like this, many types of chiropractic adjustments are supposed to be relaxing - it is a mind/body therapy. So in the case of a totally out of control toddler (i have one that is sometimes like this), you have to think about 1) the point of your visit & 2) how the other patient's treatments might be going with a tantruming toddler in the next room. I'm not opposed to letting kids have their tantrums in public, but there are some places where other people should really be respected & honestly, if you are totally stressed about your child's behavior I'm pretty sure most chiropractors would tell you that you didn't get your full money's worth! So, although I understand that some people may not have a choice in bringing their children to appointments with them, i think for some circumstances some really creative measures need to be taken. I think bringing a "mommy's helper" is a great idea, as are a lot of the other ideas already presented. I just think it's one thing to let your kid scream & throw a fit in a grocery store, it's another to do it in a place where people are trying relax and allow their bodies to heal.


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