# Why are we so angry?



## WinterStar (Apr 2, 2007)

I keep reading here, and elsewhere, about so many of us that have issues with anger, and occasionally "losing it". I see anger on the faces of mums all over town. I too have some anger at times and right now - which is why I'm posting - I also have a very short fuse.

There seems to be an understanding that this is because of how we were parented as children.......are we really sure about that? Or could it just be because we are lacking in family/tribal support and that actually parenting in the near isolation that western civilisation often means - is in fact beyond the call of duty and too much for all but the strongest and most placid of women?

If it is caused by our childhoods - then how? What's the connection iykwim, what process has occured to produce anger in us?

I feel that if I could understand fully *why* I get angry then I would be better equipped to learn how not to. I know mums who *never* get angry - irritated yes but not angry. If you're one of those mums, what do you think is different about you? Why don't you get angry?

For me it's not just about learning techniques - yes they're useful in the short term and better than nothing, but the moment the anger rises a child is aware of it and alarmed by it - and even if we manage to not spank, not shout, not walk away or whatever, it doesn't take away that scary moment for the child.

I want to understand my anger so I can stop it even happening in the first place, and I'm sure I can't do that until I understand what brought it into my personality.

Obviously anger is a valid emotion at times, but I'm talking about the times it isn't but still rises.


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## mom22girls (May 5, 2005)

Good question. I don't know if it is the way we were parented. My mom was a follower of Parent Effectiveness Training (mentioned as good by Alphie Kohn). She was pretty CL too. But my mom could take it to the extreme. My brother needed more structure at home, and since he was being "dysfunctional" my mom put him in therapy (at 12...) the therapist told her he needed more structure in his life, but my mother said "that just isn't my style," so for her, it was a cop-out. For me, it worked better, in that I self-regulated easier, but I have rage issues.

Some I know are excasserbated by diet. I've cut waaay down on caffeine and refined sugars/carbs - and that helps. But I tend to think, as you suggested, that not only are we not supported by our families/tribes - but in society as a whole. We're also a pretty pedigreed lot, with a lot of education and high expectations of our actions. We face a myriad of challenges. Also, for me, it is hard to have come from a place where I was "in charge" (my work life) and be in a family environment where I'm not.

I too have wondered about those moms who said, "oh, I could never hit my child." I don't hit, but I could easily do it - I'm just afraid it would become a downward spiral (like an alcoholic). I hear some moms who seems so calm and collected, even in the most stressful time, and wonder how they do it too.

edit: don't know how the frownie got there, must have hit it by mistake...


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## mommy2abigail (Aug 20, 2005)

I think it's many factors. A huge one, at least for me, is the isolation thing. Especially being a SAHM. Most days, I do get together with my mom, who is a nanny for a toddler the same age as dd, and during those hours, I find it easier to get things done, be patient, and just have a positive outlook on things in general. Cleaning house doesn't seem so tedious when I am joking and talking with my mom. Cooking is actually fun when I dont have a whining tired, hungry kid at my feet- since she's off playing (or fighting!) with her buddy. Even if it's 2-3 hours, those hours are treasured to me every day. The rest of the day seems to drag on and on, and that's where I lose my patience. Also, dd being an only, she is used to me playing/reading to her alot. THat's fine, because I enjoy it, but I have to take a break every now and again, and of course, at just 2 years old, she doesn't get that. If she had siblings or cousins to run off with she might let me alone every now and again!
Societies expectations of women and children also affect how we parent and how we react. Society expects our children to be seen and not heard, in general people have a very low tolerance for normal childish behavior. So say if your kid is acting up at a restaurant, instead of the people at the table next to you turning and smiling or trying to help, they will quite often turn and give you a dirty look or whatever. This makes us feel like we must 'control' or teach our children to behave, when they ARE behaving just as a 2, 3, 4, or 5 ,year old should! Along with that comes the unnatural situations we put our kids in. Kids were not meant to sit in a carseat, strapped in, for 20-30 minutes at a time afew times a day. Kids were not meant to sit quietly for storytime at the library, or sit for 2+ hours at a restaurant and 'behave' like an adult. It's just not natural, and goes against what they can do developmentally. All this to say that because we are putting our children in situations that they will most likely fail, we are stressing our because of what others think or do, all this is contributing to anger and rage. On the days when I choose to do things simply, like take a meandering walk in the woods or swim with dd in the spring and go on a canoe ride, doing things at her pace ,where she is free to run and play without being inhibited or expected to sit still, I am virtually stress free. Things that bother me on a normal basis dont. After all, if we are outside and she spills her cup or water, who cares, right?
Many days, I wonder if, with all our modern day 'things', appliances, we really have it better or easier? Not true. Back in the day, families lived together for generations. Brothers, sisters, Aunts, Uncles, and grandparents shared housing. Everyone helped with the house chores. Cleaning was not like it is today. Dust was not taboo, and sanitation was not the goal. This day and age, I feel like I have to mop my floor everyday and dust 4 times a week and do laundry everyday just to keep our house decent. ANd *I* am the only one doing this! Plus cooking, going to the grocery, PO, and a million other errands. Plus I have to lug my not so cooperative toddler around, which makes me feel guilty, which wears on my emotions which makes me feel angry....
Anger is a secondary emotion, meaning is usually stem from something else, like fear. For me, I fear that "If dd does this, then she's going to grow up to be a spoiled brat and it will be MY fault because I wanted to do GD/AP methods instead of conventional methods of child rearing." alot. That runs through my head all the time. I feel like since I am the only one who really really wants this for dd, it lays on my shoulders to produce good children who turn into good adults, and any shortcomings are a sign of failur on my part. When I re read this I know it sounds silly, but there it is. To find the source of your anger, I would find the source of your fear. HTH


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## hubris (Mar 8, 2003)

In my case, yes, I'm pretty darn certain that it has to do with how I was parented. Not that my parents are horrible people or anything. They raised us in a way that they believed was right. BUT that way was often very centered on the concept of adult *control* of children. Do what I say, when I say it, because I said it. When I feel angry with my children, it is almost always because they're doing something that I just plain don't like, and want them to stop, and I feel frustrated because I want them to do what *I* want them to do.

While my mood, available support, nutritional/sleep status, etc can all feed into that, at the base of it is the idea of an adult agenda. When I can let go of silly agendas, or find ways to cooperatively accomplish more important agendas, we're fine. When I stubbornly dig my heels in about an agenda because I'm the parent and I say so...doesn't go so well. Anger city.

So yeah, I think a large part of it has to do with what I was shown when I was a child. It's hard to parent according to a different model when I was told explicitly that philosophies like Alfie Kohn's are permissive and wrong, and that the adults should "be in charge".


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## mittendrin (Nov 5, 2003)

I have thought about this a lot, since I get angry and have a short fuse.
I personally don't blame it on my childhood, there's not a lot of things I connect to that although my childhood involved neglect and divorce.
For me I know it's confusion and social pressure.
Confusion, because there's so many different ways to parent, so many people I know have different styles and I am simply overwhelmed by the choices. I always feel like I have to make a choice and need a "label" to parent a certain way. Then I can't stick to it 100% and feel like a failure. The best times in my mother-children relationship are when I am relaxed, haven't had time to think about the next step and just go with my guts. But a lot of times I consciously make an effort to copy someone's parenting style becuase of a certain situation I was impressed with - how they handle their kids tantrums, how do they teach their kids certain things, how happy are their kids....but what works for them doesn't necessarily work for my kids, so them and me get angry.
I haven't read any parenting books in years, I am just so fed up with all the different advice, everyone seems to know better than you and I need to concentrate on how my kids are as individuals and stop trying to put them in a drawer.
Second the social pressure which is somewhat connected to the confusion theory. I don't want to give in to it, but it's hard not to. I get angry out of jealousy for example. I see how easy it is for some of my friends, when they get their night out cause they have family to help watch the kids or can afford a sitter. They have houses with a yard and when their kids get crazy, they just let them outside, while me and dh get a night out once a year and I have to take my kids to the park when they wanna run.
I get angry when I see how much farther ahead my friend's daughter is, academically. While I don't believe in teaching them how to read and do math at age 5 it still tickles me when ds's friend can write her name and he is more interested in rolling on the floor being a goofball. When she knew at 14 months what L and R is and knows to keep her elbows off the tabel while eating while my ds is stuffing as much food in his mouth as possible







There's plenty of things my ds does better than her and in the end it's not about a contest and I have always stayed away from the whole "look, what MY child can do" thing but whether you want it or not, at some point you're gonna get sucked into it and I get mad at my kids for not going with the flow sometimes.
More social pressure: my mom who expects all kids to sit still and color when adults are having a coversation. My pedi who reads me that ridiculous growthchart and tells me their heads are big. MDC members who put a "non-AP" or "AP" sticker on anyone who posts. I could count thousands more.

I get angry when I am not strong enough to trust my instincts and expect too much of me and my kids. Lack of sleep, money trouble and all those things agrevate it but I have had plenty of times where we could pay the bills comfortably and I had 8 hrs of sleep and still had the most impatient days.

We all have different reasons for getting mad and the most important thing to me is that I have come to realize: I admire moms who are striking starts of GD, who have never raised their voice to their kids. I will never reach that level and I will yell at them the next time they color the walls or tear up a book. In my eyes there's nothing wrong with anger at certain times as long as it's justified. It shouldn't harm anyone but it is also a perfectly natural response to when things go wrong. My kids need to learn that side of me too. Anything in moderation, right


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## elizawill (Feb 11, 2007)

for me, i don't have an anger issue with my friends or my husband, or my parents....or anyone else for that matter....i find myself feeling most angry and having really lost it only around my sweet children. like the pp said, i am also a full-time SAHM and i am with my kids 24/7. they are still pretty young (only 5 & 3).

at their age, i think they still can be very unreasonable ...and honestly, they do things that have just ticked me off sometimes (like making concoctions on the porch and adding dog poop for fun -in my good cooking pans!!....or drawing all over the walls with sharpie markers). i have found myself feeling most angry when it was a power struggle of some sort, or an act of what i felt was deliberate disobedience.

having said that though, i really don't scream at my kids anymore. i think the key for me is knowing what emotions come before me fully losing it. for me it is irritability. when i find my children are "getting on my nerves" (like yesterday-and for NO reason really). in the morning, when my daughter was asking very simple questions, i found my patience was very thin and i was irritable. it's not her fault or problem though, it's mine and i really try to recognize that. i told her i was in a grumpy mood and i was sorry. i asked her to give me some extra space, and she totally understood. to help with my anger, i also have given up a lot of battles that i used to think were important. i don't fight with my kids about clothes anymore--they can wear what they please (i put winter clothes in the attic in the summer and vice versa). i also try to give choices whenever possible, and i also don't leave them unsupervised as much....obviously they would not have added poop to my pots and pans or colored the walls with sharpies, had their mommy been more aware







: lastly, i have lowered my expectations of my children. i think i used to have unrealistic expectations of how my children should *be* and i was constantly frustrated because my sweeties could never measure up. we would go to a restaurant and i'd feel angry that they misbehaved....but it was crazy to think they actually should have behaved at all. anyway, i think ALL mamas get angry, and all mamas lose it at one time or another. it's been posted so many times, and i think it's so true how important it is to take care of ourselve (eat right, get rest, get alone time when possible...ha ha, which i never get) and use a lot of the techniques mentioned here to help stay calm. i think you can be very angry and still stay calm. anger is a god-given emotion, so to never get angry is unrealistic.

other people may have deep rooted anger issues from something else, and i guess they may need more than this....but this is how i deal with it....but i know i still have a lot of growing to do.


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## SugarAndSun (Feb 6, 2005)

My anger seems to be directly linked to spending too many hours alone with the kids at home. When I feel myself startng to lose it, I just put them in the car or stroller and head out. It usually helps. I really think a community would help.

I sort of feel that we are going against the system. The trial/family support is gone, but most people live in two income homes and the kids go to daycare. That is the new community: work and daycare.


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## Jenlaana (Oct 28, 2005)

My parents almost never hit us, but my father had an explosive temper. For me though... I'm Irish (dad's side) and I think a large part of it is genetics. Its not the temper that I think can be adjusted, just how we handle it, yk?


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## christyc (Mar 22, 2006)

Wow-- lots of responses here that hit home for me.

A big part of my issue is how I was raised. I grew up in a home where rage and violence were the NORM. Screaming, screeching, breaking things, hitting, throwing things, calling each other and the kids names were the norm on a GOOD day. On a bad day, you can add punching, drunk parents, etc... So it is SOOOOOOO hard to fight that first instinct towards anger when my kids "misbehave," especially since years of abuse have completely warped what that natural instinct is.

Diet plays a big role for me, too. I drink WAY too much caffeine and need to cut down.

Also, I realize that my triggers are when the kids and I get into some sort of power struggle, or like a pp said when they do something that appears to be intentional defiance. Those are hard things for me to deal with, especially because of society's messages about kids should and should not do. I think I also get a little hurt by the intentional stuff, and am working on getting MY feelings out of the equation, at least long enough to discipline properly.

Quote:

More social pressure: my mom who expects all kids to sit still and color when adults are having a coversation. My pedi who reads me that ridiculous growthchart and tells me their heads are big. MDC members who put a "non-AP" or "AP" sticker on anyone who posts. I could count thousands more.
Yep. And if you're like me, all the people out there aren't pushing the same philosophies on you, which makes it easier to doubt yourself and your parenting during those times when you feel a bit overwhelmed by discipline.


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

Such an interesting question. I have thought about this a lot.

I think that there is no one answer but I do think that environmental factors play a huge role. I find that when I am in a chaotic environment - loud, bright, polluted - I have a much shorter fuse. When I am in a calmer environment then I am able to be more mindful of what is going on within me.

Since I live in a big city I have found that I need to create that inner calm and mindfulness. Yoga has helped, as had bike riding and eating well. But by far the most helpful thing that I have ever done for myself is to *mitigate stress* instead of seek it out. I have learned to say "no" when I feel that something is going to be too much. I have learned to not care for material possessions so that I don't feel resentful if I don't have them. I make decisions carefully so that I don't take on more than I can handle. The other thing that I have done which has helped enormously is that I *don't take things personally*. This has been a challenging exercise but I do see that 99% of people's reactions to us have more to do with themselves than anything we are doing.

I also try to be understanding of people. If I'm driving and somebody cuts me off, I literally say to myself "they must be in a terrible rush - maybe they have to go pick their child up and they are late" or something along those lines. I try not to judge what others do with bad motives.


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## mowilli3 (Jan 7, 2007)

I don't have a problem with anger. I get angry on ocassion with my DH and my DC, but it's not often. But I think that anger is necessary and useful to a certain extent. The problem that I see with anger is how to manage it.

I got angry with my DD the other day because she did not want me to rinse the shampoo from her hair. I was almost done and she was screaming and resisting. I felt myself pushing against her to make her let me finish because I felt that she was being difficult for no reason. When I realized that I was pushing her, I let go and I felt ashamed. That is what my mother did to me. She used all sorts of control including pushing, dragging, and holding. It was all punishment for resisting. I was so frustrated that I yelled out my frustration "ARRRRRRGGGGHHHH!" Both my DC started crying. I had frightened them. I felt stupid.

Then the anger wasn't even important anymore. If I had channeled it instead of letting it get warped with guilt and hurt thinking about myself as a child, I might have thought of a song or some silly game to help us get through the hairwashing faster. So I sat down and took 20 sec to get it together and I was about to get them smiling and finish the hair in less than 5 mins. I apologized to them for losing my temper.


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## guestmama9915 (Jul 29, 2004)

Lack of support.

I also find it much easier to deal with every day stresses when there's other people around, other children, other mothers, family, etc.

I do have anger issues I've been dealing with pretty darn well until the last month or so of this pregnancy, which I think were related to my childhood, but I'm learned to let go of a lot.


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## lindsaye3 (May 15, 2007)

I find a piece of myself in everyone's post. This is a great discussion. I'm nak or I'd write more.


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## beka1977 (Aug 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WinterStar* 
Or could it just be because we are lacking in family/tribal support and that actually parenting in the near isolation that western civilisation often means - is in fact beyond the call of duty and too much for all but the strongest and most placid of women?


I think that this is it exactly. I had a fabulous childhood, with attentive but not permissive parents. Yet as a parent the anger is SO present.


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## beka1977 (Aug 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SugarAndSun* 

I sort of feel that we are going against the system. The trial/family support is gone, but most people live in two income homes and the kids go to daycare. That is the new community: work and daycare.

I feel like this is really true. A lot of what I am being told about how to parent, and how to feel about it, is really only true if I am away from my kids all day. Not to get into a SAHM/WOHM argument, but SAHMing is intense.


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WinterStar* 
Or could it just be because we are lacking in family/tribal support and that actually parenting in the near isolation that western civilisation often means - is in fact beyond the call of duty and too much for all but the strongest and most placid of women?

I believe this is the reason I struggle sometimes. I don't think it has anything to do with the way I was raised. My mom had far more patience than I have. Of course, I've always been a person with a high need for sleep, peace and serenity and having children those tend to be in short supply. But I am pretty good at getting my needs met. The times when things get rough I do feel I am lacking the tribal support that seemed to be avaliable to my mom - even though she would say she lacked the support she needed as well. I think sometimes there is alot of pressure for a mom to ignore her own needs in order to cater to every whim of her children. I don't believe that is healthy - unmet needs don't just go away. Learning to prioritize is importnat.


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## quietserena (Apr 24, 2006)

Having support would certainly save me from getting to that point. On days that I get out of the house and maybe go to a playgroup or something, I notice that I'm less likely to get close to losing it.

There's a certain desperation in taking care of a kid and a house that for me personally can turn to anger. I have a *really* long fuse so that saves me a lot of the time but not always.

I tend to show anger more around those that I know best and my husband and my daughter are closest to me right now. That scares me and I try to remind myself often that she can't defend herself against me and that I need to not turn anything out on her. Reading this forum and several parenting books has helped me in identifying triggers and avoiding situations where I'm more likely to lose it.


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## ShadowMom (Jun 25, 2004)

I haven't read the other replies yet because it will probably change my mind about this. I'm too impressionable, LOL.

But what I wanted to say is that I think that anger is a natural human reaction to the situations we're in with children.

I mean really, they upset the whole applecart - things we used to be able to take for granted, we can't any more. Things we used to be able to do, we can't.

Added to that, children are always going to get the brunt because they are usually the most sensitive and vulnerable around in the crowd.

I do think our current lifestyles could add to that - if you've had children around you your whole life, and are already used to being responsible for/taking care of them, then you've already adjusted somewhat. But as much as extended family can be a huge help in that area, as we are all aware, they can also be a huge problem. The idea of the whole family being so much closer and able to help each other may sound better than it really would be, KWIM?

I think it is our inability to DEAL with our anger that is the problem. I think anger is a natural reaction to most of the situations and changes we are going through; but we've got to have a way of dealing with it that doesn't involve inflicting it on others. KWIM? Easier said than done, probably.

I think in the past, with a much closer-knit and extended family, children were much more vulnerable to a family member who was unable to control his/her temper, or molested, or what have you. We have a lot more control over that nowadays. So I'm not sure that's totally the answer.


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## adtake (Feb 1, 2006)

Thank you so much for this thread. It is so nice to hear that I am not alone. The biggest problem I have with myself i how angry I can get with the boys. For little things, for big things.

I am so going to watch this thread and learn, learn, learn!

Thanks for the support!


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## turtlewomyn (Jun 5, 2005)

For me, it was how I was raised, that and diet (I do have some hypoglycemia issues that contributes).
My mom is an alcoholic, she became an alcoholic when I was three. She used to smack me, and grab me and shake me so that my head would snap back and forth. Then she would apologize and tell me that she was sorry that she hurt me, but she couldn't help herself because I had made her so angry. She is currently sober and claims that she never yelled at me or hurt me as a child.
I have had to fight these urges to hurt my child the way my mother hurt me, and I was not even drunk at the time. I can get angry about stupid stuff, I mean, come on, DD is just a toddler! Luckily, I have a loving caring DH who is an excellent parent and steps in when he can see me getting irritated. And yeah, I have been in therapy for over a year now (actually just got a break from it because I have been doing so much better).


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## blessed (Jan 28, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ShadowMom* 
But what I wanted to say is that I think that anger is a natural human reaction to the situations we're in with children..

That's what I think as well.

We're all going about our day, trying to get things accomplished, and here are these little people who make it their mission in life to make everything in the universe come to a halt so that all of the focus is on them. It's a set up for frustration.

I'd be exponentially more pissed off if an adult was getting in my way all the time like that.


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## WinterStar (Apr 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2abigail* 
makes us feel like we must 'control' or teach our children to behave, when they ARE behaving just as a 2, 3, 4, or 5 ,year old should! ....because we are putting our children in situations that they will most likely fail, we are stressing our because of what others think or do, all this is contributing to anger and rage......Anger is a secondary emotion, meaning is usually stem from something else, like fear.

For me, I fear that "If dd does this, then she's going to grow up to be a spoiled brat and it will be MY fault because I wanted to do GD/AP methods instead of conventional methods of child rearing." alot. That runs through my head all the time. I feel like since I am the only one who really really wants this for dd, it lays on my shoulders to produce good children who turn into good adults, and any shortcomings are a sign of failur on my part. When I re read this I know it sounds silly, but there it is.

I recently had a brief chat with a hospital therapist because my dd was in hospital, and I tried to explain my parenting style for her. One aspect is that I'm a firm believer in modelling, that my dd will behave the way she sees *me* behave. She very astutely said "but thats very hard on you isn't it - if your daughter ever 'misbehaves' or 'does the wrong thing', then it's entirely down to you and *your* behaviour". I agreed with her completely lol, it's what I believe, but it did make me see how much pressure I was putting on myself - and also how in a way I was denying my dd the right to be an individual and - say - be grumpy and badly behaved if thats how she feels today









I agree also with this thing of expecting too much from our children developmentally, it's *sooo* easy to forget and start doing that. And our society is just NOT child friendly.

A lot of the triggers mentioned are the same for me, lack of sleep, lack of time for myself, lack of the right environment, not flowing with dd and her pace. But isn't this all just about management, getting it all right in the first place so that there's nothing to get angry about anyway? I'd like to feel confident that *whatever* the day (or my dd







) might throw at me, I will be able to handle it with grace and humour.

I'm interested in anger being a secondary emotion, I need to ponder that some more. Is it always from fear do you think? As much as I am preoccupied with my parenting technique I don't really feel *afraid* of being judged on it, I'm far too arrogant for that







I may well be in denial here though.....hmm.

The thing I'm actually struggling with, is not to get angry with dd's biting and extreme clinginess (both of which started during the hospital stay I mentioned above). 99% of the time I can stay calm, but just occasionally, and as it's gone on longer, my temper is now starting to rise, which of course makes it all just worse - I don't act on my temper but dd knows it's there. If an adult behaved like dd it would be *appropriate* for me to get angry, I think whats happening in these moments is that I am expecting adult behaviour from my dd. I *know* she's been through a lot, and is only trying to deal with it.....but I get as angry as if she *were* an adult, and after it's stopped I'm miserable and I almost expect her to apologise and explain to me why she did it. She can't talk yet









Hey, I feel I'm getting somewhere here








*walks away muttering....she's only a baby, you're the adult, she's only a baby.....*


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## Tapioca (Feb 4, 2005)

Speaking as someone who used to be very angry, I think it was a choice. Certainly my parents parented their children with anger and are still very angry people, so I inherited that from them. One day I just realised that it was pointless. It's just a complete waste of energy. I realised that I got angry with DD because I wanted her to cooperate or I thought by yelling I could feel better by displacing the anger outside of myself. Actually, she didn't cooperate any better when I was angry and I didn't feel better after yelling, I felt worse. Guilty! Which made me angry with myself all over again....vicious circle.

I try and think about compassion when i feel the signs of angry. Compassion for myself, compassion for DD. I also tell myself that it's okay if we're late/it's raining/I can't stand the whining/whatever.

And I've let go of my anger towards my parents. I finally realised it wasn't going to disappear of it's own accord, I had to just force myself to move on. I think of myself as having grown up a lot. But it's taken a hard 3 years to get here.


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## Tapioca (Feb 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WinterStar* 
I recently had a brief chat with a hospital therapist because my dd was in hospital, and I tried to explain my parenting style for her. One aspect is that I'm a firm believer in modelling, that my dd will behave the way she sees *me* behave. She very astutely said "but thats very hard on you isn't it - if your daughter ever 'misbehaves' or 'does the wrong thing', then it's entirely down to you and *your* behaviour". I agreed with her completely lol, it's what I believe, but it did make me see how much pressure I was putting on myself - and also how in a way I was denying my dd the right to be an individual and - say - be grumpy and badly behaved if thats how she feels today










Oh yeah, for sure. I have the same belief. The thing I mutter to myself is 'compassion, compassion" ha ha.

Very true about society. Was on the bus yesterday with parents and a 3 year old, who was kicking the seat in front of him, acting up, you know. He has a newborn sib so that was probably why. Anyway, could see the parents were getting so stressed out by his behaviour (and the judgemental silence of people on the bus) so I finally said I had a 3 yaer old too, how I was empathising with them, and they just completely relaxed and started smiling.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

subbing so I can come back to this. I need this thread.


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

Ah, yes! I do tend to see my kids behavior as a reflection on me. So if they are rowdy, then *I* am lacking the inner peace that I work so hard to have - how silly when you point that out, huh?! Conversely, I probably take too much credit for their good behavior







And I have been guilty of constantly trying to figure out *who* they got their behavior traits from. I'll tell dh "do you know what *your* daughter has done?!" Good therapist!


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## wendizbaby (Jul 22, 2005)

I love all the responses in this thread. Yes especially to all of our expectations of ourselves and our children. I think one big thing that helps me stay (or get) calm is to remember that it is perfectly normal for a child to cry and scream and that it's not something I need to FIX. I get the maddest when my ds is crying and I just keep saying "WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WANT???". I have to stop myself in these moments and just be near him. Anger is so normal and really can be useful and even healthy if it's recognized, contemplated and let go. I don't think anyone should ever feel shamed or less than for feeling this emotion and for sure it should not be "put away" for our children. What matters is what you're doing with this anger and that you're not crossing other people's boundaries in expressing your anger (physical/verbal abuse).

Wendi


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## monkey's mom (Jul 25, 2003)

I wonder if it's a pre-historic "hold-over." ?? I definitely believe that anger is a masking emotion for fear, and I wonder if our "mama bear" instincts don't have the release that they once did.

Like, dangerous situations in our history used to involve serious predators. So if our young wandered off into a situation where they were being preyed upon, we would likely need to fend off the predator in a pretty aggressive manner. All that adrenaline would be have a useful direction--a recipient, if you will, who we could lash out at and, in turn, protect our offspring.

Now, we're still trying to protect our offspring from dangers, but where is that fear/anger/adrenaline channeled? There's no saber tooth tiger to scream at and chase away until we're spent, you know? But, that fear of injury and death is still pretty real--toddler wandering toward the road, playing with an outlet, etc. Maybe we unleash on the kid b/c s/he's the only thing right there. Yelling at the outlet and throwing the lamp across the room would seem pretty silly.

I don't know....just another thought.

I definitely think the isolation and intense mama-on-kid(s) thing is waaaaay new and stressful and a HUGE part of the equation.

And how many of us were taught (or not) to deal with big emotions.


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## McMandy (May 18, 2007)

I don't think I'm angry because I was spanked as a child.

I absolutely agree with the OP: back in the day, families came together to raise children. Nowdays, it doesn't usually work out that way. Too much is on the shoulders of parents... especially in this fast pace world when we're suppose to have "superkids" and such.

I think it also has a lot to do with the fact that many of us set aside the things that are stress-relievers. We sacrifice the things that calm us down, the time, the book, the bath, the hair styling, whatever it is...

And therefore we keep going and going without taking time for ourselves.


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

Mommy2abigal I totally relate to your post....and so many others.

My trigger is 100% violence. When Dd hauls off and hits me or her brother or her father...it makes me see double. I yelled at DD so badly today...b/c she threw her toy stroller at me then pushed her brother to the ground.
I have spoken to her over and over about how to handle her anger. she is allowed to stomp off to her room and yell and slam the door but she can not hit another person...
Yet she continues to do it...sometimes I see her make the deliberate decision to do it and my head spins.
I think my anger stems from perfectionism...which is from my mother. we had to be perfect little girls my sister and I. anything that wasn't perfect was hidden.
My sister fought against it..being the rebel. I was the "good girl".
after reading Alice ****** I do believe I have to reconcile my past...
I don't really now how to do that though.
I wish I lived in neighborhood with kids. I get lonely and wish for a friend to pop over with her kids and have coffee with me while the kids play.
As it is I live in an apartment complex with mostly old people and the young couples move out to raise families.
The only friend with kids my kids ages lives 40 minutes away and she does come over about every other week..for coffee








I feel pressure to do everything right b/c I am bucking the system...I get so scared sometimes.


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## WinterStar (Apr 2, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom22girls* 
Also, for me, it is hard to have come from a place where I was "in charge" (my work life) and be in a family environment where I'm not.


Quote:


Originally Posted by *hubris* 
It's hard to parent according to a different model when I was told explicitly that philosophies like Alfie Kohn's are permissive and wrong, and that the adults should "be in charge".









I suspect you would both actually agree with this, but imo parents *should* be "in charge". Interpreting that statement in a loving and respectful way is sometimes a problem. Being in charge shouldn't be about bossing, ordering, using force.....it's about being the boss but in a wholly respectful manner. This is very subtle, hard to express - hard to live at times lol, and sometimes I do waver on this.

*I* decide that dd cannot climb on the kitchen worktop because it's too high for my comfort zone wrt safety. I decide that dd is going to get dressed "now" as we are going out - but I build in a large 30 minute margin for "now". lol. I decide what time meals are and I expect everyone to sit at the table. If dd doesn't want to eat her green beans but does want to eat her dessert, she is free to decide that







If she wants to get down before the meal is finished she's free to go wander, but I'm not going with her until I've finished my meal.......no matter *how* hard she yanks my arm









Feeling like I'm not in charge is definitely an anger trigger for me but one I find not too hard to avoid - most of the time lol. I *am* in charge, and so long as I am remembering that this doesn't give me the right to bully or force, then I know I can relax into it and just direct things the way *I* want them to go. With kindness, smiles, connection, and a *very* loose timetable


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## mittendrin (Nov 5, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wendizbaby* 
Anger is so normal and really can be useful and even healthy if it's recognized, contemplated and let go. I don't think anyone should ever feel shamed or less than for feeling this emotion and for sure it should not be "put away" for our children. What matters is what you're doing with this anger and that you're not crossing other people's boundaries in expressing your anger (physical/verbal abuse).

Wendi









:


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## freerangemum (Sep 14, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WinterStar* 
I feel that if I could understand fully *why* I get angry then I would be better equipped to learn how not to. I know mums who *never* get angry - irritated yes but not angry. If you're one of those mums, what do you think is different about you? Why don't you get angry?

I want to understand my anger so I can stop it even happening in the first place, and I'm sure I can't do that until I understand what brought it into my personality.

I think you sound like a terrific mother and a good person. Good on you for thinking so deeply, noticing so much and wanting to understand yourself better. My children are 17, 13 & 9, so I have some opportunity to "step back" and observe a bit. I see what you've been seeing, too.

I think the biggest contributing factor to "general parenting anger" is taking the child's behavior so deeply personally. I think our society has an unstated but ingrained idea of parenting = personal fulfillment. It's not anything we *intend* but I think it's what happens psychologically. We do get deep satisfaction and self esteem from our children and that has slipped improperly into needing our children (or perhaps subconsciously expecting?) to contribute to our satisfaction and self esteem. It's such a subtle difference and it's not anything we DO on purpose, it just sorts of slips. Because of this accidental dependence upon our children for our own inner feelings, our children's bad behavior creates very bad feelings within us including anger. Parents are emotionally worn out with their children because we so deeply internalize their behavior.

Mindfulness is such a HUGE help for this. Stepping back and recognizing that when the child flushes a can of shaving cream I DO feel angry but don't have to BE angry or behave in an angry fashion. Kids will be kids and I do have a job to do (as parent) but it isn't about ME in the end. Even when you're sitting on the curb outside a shop holding a screaming, kicking child who is biting your shoulder until it bleeds because the shop didn't have the book she wanted. (Can you tell I've been there? LOL!) I have to try to meet my own needs and fulfill my own sense of self and not inadvertantly allow it to be effected by my children. Often I have to "do" Good Mother when I don't feel like her at all!! Our society isn't so good at separating those things, I think.

About 15 years ago I had a terrible hormonal problem after a miscarriage and I felt I was very angry all the time. I used to pray (or meditate if it's better for you) on a "little window" of opportunity. A "little window" between the anger I felt and the anger I expressed. Little by little that window became bigger and opened a lot sooner. At first, I'd recognize the window after the tyrade ("What am I doing? Deep Breath. Ok, I can stop now.") but with lots of prayer/meditation I recognized it sooner and sooner. Soon, truly, I rarely FELT that jolt of anger. Irritation, frustration, peeved, exasperation, etc. Oh yes! But not that toxic jolt of anger... you know what I mean. I do think mindfulness is the answer. We're a very unmindful society - we live in a time of almost drowning in every emotion or sensation we feel, every thought that pops in our heads is "valid" and not tried, tested, discarded.

I hope that makes sense and I hope you can hear the admiration I have for you. I think you're on your way to conquering your anger with such a teachable attitude. I'll be thinking about you! I wish you well!


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## mysweetw&e (Feb 15, 2006)

I think others have said this, but I've realized that most of the time when I'm angry at my kids, I'm really angry at myself. Because if I were a better mom then they wouldn't bite each other or spit on each other or what have you. Angry that I didn't step in sooner, angry that I can't figure out how to change it, angry that I've let the house get so messy that they got hurt, angry that I feel that I _need_ time to myself- 'cause isn't total self-sacrifice the goal?







: , etc.

I also know that a lot of my anger issues do come from my childhood. Because we weren't taught to recognize and work through our feelings, just to stuff them and hope they went away. But they didn't go away and eventually they would all come out like a steaming volcano that we couldn't control. And I got the idea that everyone else's happiness was my responsibility, but my own happiness didn't matter- so when I see my kids upset my first response used to be to get on the defensive and get angry, because I couldn't understand what *I* did to make them feel that way. Thankfully I now recognize these feelings and am getting much better at allowing and working through my own feelings and helping my children with theirs.

When trying to figure out "why" I'm angry, sometimes it helps to say to myself "I'm actually happy right now" or "I could choose to be happy even though x has happened" and then listen to the thoughts that come into my head, the ones that are justifying why I feel the way I do. It's interesting, if not sometimes disturbing, to hear. But it gives me a deeper understanding and a new place to work from, which helps me grow more towards the peaceful mama I want to be! (Who can remain calm and rational even when angry







That's my goal, and I am getting closer- not that I'll ever get there totally, but it helps to know what I want!)


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## Steve's Wife (Jan 19, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy2abigail* 
For me, I fear that "If dd does this, then she's going to grow up to be a spoiled brat and it will be MY fault because I wanted to do GD/AP methods instead of conventional methods of child rearing." alot. That runs through my head all the time. I feel like since I am the only one who really really wants this for dd, it lays on my shoulders to produce good children who turn into good adults, and any shortcomings are a sign of failur on my part. When I re read this I know it sounds silly, but there it is. To find the source of your anger, I would find the source of your fear. HTH

That does not sound sound silly, and it's quite how how I feel a lot of the time. I am the one who wants to do GD. My SIL does modified GD, although it's really more permissive, and her kids are not how I'd like mine to turn out, so I have that weighing on me, too. I totally get what you're saying.

My anger often stems from control issues, too, as others have said. When I get pissed, either DD is doing something I don't want her to do, or _I_ am _not_ getting to do something I want to do, like read a book or just not have a toddler hanging from my legs. Control and anger go hand-in-hand for me, both in my parenting and my marriage. I am still trying to figure out how to deal with that. I struggle _a lot_ with trying to be GD and not trying to control my child, which is what I always thought people needed to do with their kids.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *freerangemum* 
I think you sound like a terrific mother and a good person. Good on you for thinking so deeply, noticing so much and wanting to understand yourself better. My children are 17, 13 & 9, so I have some opportunity to "step back" and observe a bit. I see what you've been seeing, too.

I think the biggest contributing factor to "general parenting anger" is taking the child's behavior so deeply personally. I think our society has an unstated but ingrained idea of parenting = personal fulfillment. It's not anything we *intend* but I think it's what happens psychologically. We do get deep satisfaction and self esteem from our children and that has slipped improperly into needing our children (or perhaps subconsciously expecting?) to contribute to our satisfaction and self esteem. It's such a subtle difference and it's not anything we DO on purpose, it just sorts of slips. Because of this accidental dependence upon our children for our own inner feelings, our children's bad behavior creates very bad feelings within us including anger. Parents are emotionally worn out with their children because we so deeply internalize their behavior.

Mindfulness is such a HUGE help for this. Stepping back and recognizing that when the child flushes a can of shaving cream I DO feel angry but don't have to BE angry or behave in an angry fashion. Kids will be kids and I do have a job to do (as parent) but it isn't about ME in the end. Even when you're sitting on the curb outside a shop holding a screaming, kicking child who is biting your shoulder until it bleeds because the shop didn't have the book she wanted. (Can you tell I've been there? LOL!) I have to try to meet my own needs and fulfill my own sense of self and not inadvertantly allow it to be effected by my children. Often I have to "do" Good Mother when I don't feel like her at all!! Our society isn't so good at separating those things, I think.

About 15 years ago I had a terrible hormonal problem after a miscarriage and I felt I was very angry all the time. I used to pray (or meditate if it's better for you) on a "little window" of opportunity. A "little window" between the anger I felt and the anger I expressed. Little by little that window became bigger and opened a lot sooner. At first, I'd recognize the window after the tyrade ("What am I doing? Deep Breath. Ok, I can stop now.") but with lots of prayer/meditation I recognized it sooner and sooner. Soon, truly, I rarely FELT that jolt of anger. Irritation, frustration, peeved, exasperation, etc. Oh yes! But not that toxic jolt of anger... you know what I mean. I do think mindfulness is the answer. We're a very unmindful society - we live in a time of almost drowning in every emotion or sensation we feel, every thought that pops in our heads is "valid" and not tried, tested, discarded.

I hope that makes sense and I hope you can hear the admiration I have for you. I think you're on your way to conquering your anger with such a teachable attitude. I'll be thinking about you! I wish you well!

Thank you so much for this post! I'm currently reading Parenting From the Inside Out, which is about how our early relationships actually shape our brain, and how the only way to overcome and reshape these syntaxes is through mindfulness. It's great. I really agreed with your whole post.

I also think, and some of the OPs have kind of touched on this, that we have this idea that EVERY MOMENT COUNTS!

God forbid we aren't enjoying, savoring, and scrapbooking every important moment and milestone of our children's lives. For example, I've heard many a rant on here about the terrible, inattentive mothers who (gasp!) talk on their cell phones while their children are at the park.

Why? Why can't we admit that it can be very, very boring to spend the whole day with people with very limited intellect and social skills? Sure, they're our children and we love them more than anyone in the world, but do we really have to be ecstatically waiting at the bottom of the slide every time they come down?


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## pantufla (Jun 7, 2007)

For me, I need to remember that:
1. What DC is doing is age-appropriate behavior, even if it's undersirable behavior.
2. Changing DC's behavior will take time and a lot of effort. No discipline method will result in an immediate change.
3. Often, DC's undesirable behavior is the result of something I have or have not done -- I didn't put DC to bed on time last night, and today DC is acting out.


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## Demeter9 (Nov 14, 2006)

I see quite a bit I agree with on here so far.

For me, primarily - lack of sleep, TOO MUCH PRESSURE, no time to myself, not enough help, and thinking I have to control situations, and a natural body reaction that is overactive.

When my DH steps in sometimes and deals with one of the children when they are being more difficult, that helps. Almost every wave in the family breaks on my shore. It is RELENTLESS. Even when I'm doing NOTHING, I'm still on call. Even in my sleep I don't get a break.

Under pressure, I am the best person to have on your side. In an emergency I am the best person to have around. I'm calm. The world slows down for me. I see it all clearly.

But my adrenal system kicks something fierce under emotional situations. I can actually feel myself losing sanity, and then I get an extra adrenal kick because I know that I am about to start making bad decisions with a compromised brain. I hate it. I ****HATE***** it.


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

Great thread.
The main trigger for my anger:

- lack of support, absolutely. I don't just mean having other mothers or extended family around, but a real tribe where we are all coming from a similar place, where we are not judging one another or in competition.

When I feel supoorted and my kids are in a positive social situation my frustration and anger just doesn't come up. Half the time the anger or frustration I do feel is more at our situation than anything a 2 or 5 yr old could possibly be responsible for.

I read recently about a village in Africa where when villagers see a mother about to lose her temper with her child they immediately step in, take the child and have the mother go indoors and calm herself. I'm sure most traditional cultures functioned in this way originally. I do not believe we are supposed to be doing this on our own the way that we are. Takes a village and all that...

Other triggers:

- lack of fresh air/exercise
- too much sugar
- lack of sleep
- expecting too much of myself
- other stressors (financial, marital, etc)
- when I haven't taken care of my own needs and am feeling resentful.

I think all of the above would be erased in a supportive community.

Anger is a completely healthy and even useful emotion if we know how to handle it; I see parenting as giving me the perfect means to pratice working with that! Mindfulness meditation is the best way I know how and has worked wonders for me. On top of that, humour. Though it's hard for me to get to that point without the meditation.


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## juju's mom (Mar 30, 2005)

I have not read all the responses so I appologize if I am repeating something. I am a stay at home mom to a 2.9 year old and 4 month old twins. I lose it everyday and I hate the anger I feel. I usually drop everything and go to my bathroom and cool down at least once a day.

I have noticed that if I can get out and do something (playground, walk the mall, library) no matter how hard it is to get everybody packed up and going, I don't get as aggravated. I also think it is easier with somebody else around. The days my husband stays home, I never lose control of my anger.

sorry again if I repeated anything


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## 2bluefish (Apr 27, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
but do we really have to be ecstatically waiting at the bottom of the slide every time they come down?

And would that even be good for them? I don't think so.

I was thinking about this last night as I finished ds's baby book. I want to notice everything and appreciate everything - but at some point, you just have to *live* life and enjoy the ride.


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## christyc (Mar 22, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mysweetw&e* 
I think others have said this, but I've realized that most of the time when I'm angry at my kids, I'm really angry at myself. Because if I were a better mom then they wouldn't bite each other or spit on each other or what have you. Angry that I didn't step in sooner, angry that I can't figure out how to change it, angry that I've let the house get so messy that they got hurt, angry that I feel that I _need_ time to myself- 'cause isn't total self-sacrifice the goal?







: , etc.


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## candiland (Jan 27, 2002)

I think, first and foremost, we are so overprivileged and overintellectualized that we've simply begun to "think" too much.

The thinking and over thinking and overanalyzing of everything in regards to merely living, in general, has most of us second-guessing and biting our nails and calling for help from outsiders who may be able to miraculously step in and "cure" our woes.

I think much of this anger stems from guilt. Guilt that we haven't been able to accomplish x, y, and z. Guilt that we should be doing more and expecting more from ourselves. Guilt, for me, has always been the shapeshifter that unknowingly manifests itself into anger and rage: because I should be knowing better, doing better, and that until I can accomplish this elusive "betterment" I am somehow a failure.

A lot of it, too, has to do with control. We're never quite sure how much of life and its circumstances we are responsible for and how much of it is really, truly out of our control. (Like my seven year old dd being so extremely sensitive, for example.) Trying to come to peace with that and truly believing we are doing the best that we can do most of the time is a very difficult task to accomplish.


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## nichole (Feb 9, 2004)

the fact that my day started at 3am is a big part of it

for me it has been a learning process:
do not engage in power struggles
dont rush my child
lots of outside time
recognize when i'm getting angry and my needs are not met before i lash out
dont take bad behavior personally
find time for myself to recharge

at the end of the day i feel terrible that i was angry b/c look how little they are. if my needs are met, i usually do better. i will be checking this thread.


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## forestrymom (Jul 13, 2006)

I really needed to read this thread! I just finished, and have an awful lot to digest from all of your posts. I am the OP of the recent "I spanked her" thread, so its obvious that I feel anger. I felt it tonight as a matter of fact, but I had the absolute worst day, dh was whiny, and dd was whiny, so when I got home and everyone was whining at me, tugging on my shirt sleeve and demanding I give each individual my attention, I lost it. I didn't spank, didn't hit, but I did yell--not at anyone in particular, just yelled. Then I told them I loved them, but that i needed some space and I left the house and took the dog for a run. So I analyzed what made me *angry*.

I think what sets me off, aside from the fact that was how my parents responded, was that I am not perfect. I am angered by my own inability to cope with the people in my life. I am angered by my inability to meet everyone's needs, by not being able to feed my family the perfect diet, by having a home that isn't ideal for us right now, for hating my job and wanting to be home with dd but being unable to make that work. I am angered by what life throws at me sometimes...especially if its outside what I expect for that day or that moment.

And, I expect a lot of myself. I expect that I ought to be able to keep a clean house, cook dinner, ensure dd has clean clothes, work 32 hours a week, be an attached parent, breastfeed until she decides to wean, be pregnant....because other mothers do it without feeling angry, right? I mean, not all mothers feel angry, and they do all that, right?

Our society expects that of us. The nuclear family is absurd, and its unnatural! I feel like it would be weak of me to ask for help from a friend for an afternoon, and especially when I work so much, I don't want to spend time away from my daughter. It would not be acceptable, in my society, to ask a friend to help out by cleaning my house. I don't have a lot of friends (well, 1, really, and our schedules are completely opposite) here, because, well, there aren't a lot of people.

I am working on it. I'm just not sure all the needed tools for the job!


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## Korimomto2 (May 8, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mysweetw&e* 
I think others have said this, but I've realized that most of the time when I'm angry at my kids, I'm really angry at myself. Because if I were a better mom then they wouldn't bite each other or spit on each other or what have you. Angry that I didn't step in sooner, angry that I can't figure out how to change it, angry that I've let the house get so messy that they got hurt, angry that I feel that I _need_ time to myself- 'cause isn't total self-sacrifice the goal?







: , etc.









:


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## hipumpkins (Jul 25, 2003)

forestrymom I hear you!!


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

For me it's because until I had children I was never bad at anything.

Pregnancy brought on hypothyroidism, which brought on weight fluctuations, fibromyalgia, and brain fog. I can't do as much as I used to, and what I can do, _I can't do as well._ I feel incapable of learning anything new, and I've forgotten half of what I used to know.

On top of losing half of my capabilities, I've got new responsibilities I never dreamed I'd have when I was _sterile._ I've got anger issues from my crappy childhood, and from my ds's 'father' who abandoned me when I got pregnant by surprise. I have so much anger at my dd's bio mom who killed herself and left dd confused and angry herself, and I have anger at dd because of her psychological problems.

Then I get angry at myself because what kind of a person gets angry at a mentally disturbed person?







: I get angry at DH because he is at work all the time and I have to deal with everything myself. Then I'm mad at myself again because I know he's got to work so someone _can_ be here to deal with this stuff.

In a nutshell? I think I feel angry when I feel inadequate, or frustrated because I _used to be competent_ and now suddenly I'm not, and I may never be able to get that part of me back.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

yeah I always blamed it on my upbringing, or just my nature, but I think the isolation and lack of support is a large part of it. Because I don't just lose it if my son acts like a 4 year-old. I lose it when it's repetitive and I'm doing a hundred things, or feel really overwhelmed with chores an dkids, or feel helpless (yes that's about me) and can't seem to resolve the behavior problem in that moment or in general. I also wonder if it's even worse in the U.S. b/c of longer work weeks, lack of maternity leave, though I'm guessing there is a lack of respect for mothering mostly anywhere.

I think I've become better at coping, and yet it has only gotten harder with more kids, more to do, more time at home under my belt means I wind up doing way more domestic work than dh, etc. And then everyone wonders why I might suddenly snap at them instead of politely declining some request to do more for them. Well...I'll tell you why. Let's sit down for an hour or two.

And then partly I feel guilty for not being more appreciative b/c hey, I've got two healthy kids and stuff. It's kind of a spiral for me. I think I should never be angry but then I just get stressed and am more likely to lose it when I have such lofty standards.

I also think mothers are really good at not taking care of ourselves, and I think this is subtley encouraged by people around us and our culture.


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## *LoveBugMama* (Aug 2, 2003)

This is such an awesome thread!!

I get angry when I am stressed out. And I get stressed out when I don`t get enough alonetime, when I don`t eat right, when I get to little sleep, when my son needs me every.waking.minute.of.his.day (wich is always), when I feel isolated and alone, when I feel like a failure for not being able to be the perfect mom, when when when..... I feel stressed out a lot.









So that part hasn`t got much to do with my own childhood. But, the next part has got everything to do with my childhood:

I don`t deal with my anger very well. Why? Well, maybe there are lots of reasons. But the one that comesto mind is that my mother screamed, got totally overwhelmed, blamed and actet really stressed out when she reached her limit. My stepfather used his fists. Not very good rolemodels, right?

This thread is really helpfull, and hopefully it will get even longer when I am bumping it to the first page again.


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## waiting4it2snow (Apr 3, 2005)

Because our mothers sucked.








:

(I promise to post something actually useful later. After I'm done being annoyed by the latest email from my mom.)


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## bigeyes (Apr 5, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *waiting4it2snow* 
Because our mothers sucked.








:

(I promise to post something actually useful later. After I'm done being annoyed by the latest email from my mom.)

Oh, let's not forget our fathers, some of them sucked too.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I'm sure our mothers faced the same pressures we did. I think fathers were less helpful and there were higher expectations wrt housekeeping, and on and on.


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## Hippiemommie (Jul 3, 2005)

I think I get angry at DS because he is usually the one around and to some extent, even though it makes me sick to think this might be why, I know he will still love me. I think control is a big issue with us as well. I try to just let things go and usually I succeed. When I'm feeling bad myself or bad about myself I am a worse mood. For example the reason I checked out this thread just now was because I had a moment with DS.

I was changing his diaper on our changing table and he kept leaning his head off the end. I'm trying to hold him on there to keep him from slipping and at the same time wipe the poop off without it getting everywhere. I asked him a few times not to hang his head off, that I was affraid I might drop him. When finally I just grabbed his legs and pulled him back up on the table. It hurt the back of his head, which I didn't expect, but I did it in anger. I felt so bad and still do an hour later. I'm feeling bad today because DH is at work all day and my Mom pretty much brushed me off when I called her to ask her to lunch. As the OP said I think being isolated has a lot to do with it.


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## Jeanne D'Arc (Apr 7, 2007)

*

Why are people so angry?

As naive as this sounds, i think i know the answer.

First off as americans, we are one of THE unhealthiest countries in the world!

We may not have plagues, but we abound in chronic illness more so than any other country in the world, thats pretty serious.
With nutrient deficiencies that fall well below the ODI, Hormone problems (many hormone disorders do NOT show up on blood tests ), toxic overload of the body, etc its no wonder we often have anger issues.

On top of this, add to an unnatural family living situation. Women in America are often expected ( of themselves as well ) to be sole caretaker of the children, from birth on. This is not how it was traditionally done. No wonder so many women go crazy after having babies. They are left isolated with no help from anyone to raise _____#of children. Many women in tribes live in small concentrated communities, the women help nurse, feed and care for each others children. If one is sick or recovering , other women help take overher duties until she is well. In America, if you catch the flu, guess what?
You are going it alone. Unless you have compassionate family members
that live close ( which some do, others not so lucky ).

I'm not suggesting that you invite a bunch of other moms to live with you but
i feel we are living in a fairly unnatural child-raising community.

With the combination of deficiency, hormone problems, chronic illness,
isolation, and complete responsibility of caring for ____# of children
yourself it is no wonder people are snapping left and right.

That is why i think its good for us to try and restore our health, and
find other moms near us, and stay close, help eachother and build
a safe family community.

*


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## nhplantlady (Jun 3, 2007)

I have to flag this one and find the time to read EVERY post. WOW!
Yes, I found it so much easier to run a company than be a SAHM and I agree with the lady who talked about hooking up with her mom who is a nanny...on the days I'm with another mom things go smoother but nothing gets accomplished on the home front and I have a DH who expects a fair amount "should" be completed. He is slowly starting to learn that "watching" the kids is a full-time job. Luckily we are still building our house so I can use the plywood floors as an excuse to not do a lot of housework and as a friend's mom says "kids don't remember that their homes were clean, they remember doing things with their parents".

YES - we need to lighten up on our expectations of ourselves because my anger is certainly a result of GUILT, PAST EXPERIENCES, Frustrations, Etc. and also my expectation of perfection from myself and (sometimes) children too (poor things).

My years of counseling for ACOA issues and my 17 years in 12 step recovery have not totally prepared me for mothering! I definitely need to print out the sticky - ALTERNATIVES TO PUNISHMENT and keep it close by.

Lots of hugs to all you GREAT MOMs (whether you think you are one or not).


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## Nikki98 (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *candiland* 
I think, first and foremost, we are so overprivileged and overintellectualized that we've simply begun to "think" too much.

The thinking and over thinking and overanalyzing of everything in regards to merely living, in general, has most of us second-guessing and biting our nails and calling for help from outsiders who may be able to miraculously step in and "cure" our woes.

I think much of this anger stems from guilt. Guilt that we haven't been able to accomplish x, y, and z. Guilt that we should be doing more and expecting more from ourselves. Guilt, for me, has always been the shapeshifter that unknowingly manifests itself into anger and rage: because I should be knowing better, doing better, and that until I can accomplish this elusive "betterment" I am somehow a failure.

A lot of it, too, has to do with control. We're never quite sure how much of life and its circumstances we are responsible for and how much of it is really, truly out of our control. (Like my seven year old dd being so extremely sensitive, for example.) Trying to come to peace with that and truly believing we are doing the best that we can do most of the time is a very difficult task to accomplish.

I agree with this.

We seem to be looking for the "perfect" way to do everything and of course this isn't possible. We are in the process of moving and my kids have been playing (wtithout any interference from me) and looking at much tv while I've been taking care of some things-and I have been having such feelings of inadequacy and frustration. Why do we do this to ourselves?


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## LovelyMum (Sep 19, 2006)

I don't have much to add, I'm still looking for solutions to my parenting. I agree with many of you mamas though about the society we live in ( isolation/health ect...)
May we soon be healed!


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

Yes, yes!

I think we are angry often because....

We set a high standard for ourselves. We feel since we "know" the "right" way of doing things, when we fall short we feel guilty. I know I do this alot. If I don't do "the perfect thing", I feel lousy about myself, get angry and feel guilty, which leads to more difficulty. I was was better able to say "DS was making me nuts and I snapped at him to stop, he won't be permanently scarred- he is totally over it. Let it go", I'm sure we'd be better off. Knowing that, I feel double worse about when I can't let it go. When I'm upset for the rest of the day over something that should have been minor. Forgive myself... for not being perfect. Know that ds's life does not hinge on my "perfection", but much more on me as a whole parent. The occasionally crabby days, the off moments, the things we didn't do terribly, but could have done better... These matter much less than we think when we are mercilessly flogging ourselves for them. We want to do it just right because we love them so much. When we "fail them", it hurts. But we have to see that we are not failing them by "not being perfect", we would fail them if they never got to know us, to see us in our less beautiful moments, to watch us struggle sometimes, to see us apologize, to see us get back up? How sad if your mom was "always perfect"... how cold would that really feel?

I think sometimes we, as mothers and parents, bottle things up instead of being who we are. I think over all, I'm a really good mom. But when I try to be "perfect"- run myself ragged for a million toddler classes, say just the right thing after a day of tantrum after tantrum, make sure that every day we've read, played, done art, been outside, eaten only healthy things, been just the perfect mix of encouraging and supportive by saying just the right words every time (putting aside my own emotions) then I'm ready to snap. I've found that if I allow myself to say "Dang! Enough with the screaming already!" after the 3rd tantrum of the day instead of "Mommy wants to hear you ask in a nice voice..." I don't feel so... phoney. Betraying of myself. I heard Angelina Jolie say in an interveiw that she is a mother that lives big and allows herself to be her and that makes her a happy mother, which helps her be a good mother. I may not agree with her on everything, but there is an endenyable logic to that. I try to remind myself that I have a right to my feelings and I have a right to express them in different ways and as long as I am not destrctive or mean (which I'm not and don't feel, even in my worst moments I have never demeaned, threatned, or diminished my child in any way) I should allow myself that. It may not be "what the book says to say", but it is all still from the well of love I have for my child (even in hard times) and they are _my_ words and there is something real to that.

I think we are tired. I semi-joke that I haven't slept in 3 years. It is true. I have not slept more than 5 hours straight in 3 years. For the first 2 years, it wasn't more than 3 hours in a row. It wears on a person.

Babies, toddlers and children do things that make us angry as people. No one likes to be pinched, kicked, insulted, continually in argument, made to drop everything when someone calls (which happens multiple times a day). Anger/frustration is a logical response. Most times we're very good at understanding why these demands and conditions are on us, that they are innocent in their needs and feelings and we can respond in positive ways, but who gets hit and doesn't feel upset as their first reaction? Yet we go through this rollercoaster frequently. Forcing down this base emotion in the face of loving logic. It can be tiring. With worn defenses and exhaustion, a toddler kick in the face can really make a person mad. There is honesty in understanding this. But there is also the demand that we move beyond that when we respond.

We (by we, I mean very much "I") feel a lack of time to reflect- to gather myself. I'm a SAHM and when my son (almost 3) is awake, he demands (or needs) my attention pretty much continuously. When he is sleep, it's laundry, phone calls, and maybe a half hour on mothering. When ds goes to bed, I'm exhausted too. There is not much time to sit and say "The next time ds does this, I'll...". Or, "I wonder if he's doing this because....". I feel like I'm going, going all the time. I don't have an opportunity to re-set the parenting dials. As soon as a "crisis" is over, there is not a minute before I'm tossed into the next event. No time to just let thoughts settle. No opportunity to re-group. Emotional go, go, go.

Along the lines of allowing ourselves to feel our own emotions, there is allowing ourselves to enjoy being ourselves. When was the last time I sat around a coffee shop and chatted with a friend with no kids at the table? When was the last time I went for a swim and did laps instead of a ball in the baby pool? How many interesting bands have I passed up because they are "after bedtime"? Honestly, how long do we expect to go (without getting angry/resentful) when we (again, I!) spend days, weeks, maybe months, never doing a single activity I want to do? Never allowing myself the opportunity to stretch my muscles or mind? We're kind of meant to feel guilty about these things, or that they are super special (Oooohhh. She got a BABYSITTER so she could do a pottery class? THAT must be nice... wink, wink). Um. "she" is probably much happier with that hour or two to be just herself. Being a mother does not have to be all consuming. If it is, then what are we left with? Where does our new reserve to feed this come from? What happens when we put ourselves on a shelf for years and years? We don't have to sacrafice our children's happiness to give ourselves the chance to enjoy our own interests, we just have to make it a priority as well.

I guess I am writing all this to remind myself. To put things into perspective... Sorry it was so long!


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## nhplantlady (Jun 3, 2007)

Don't Lose Yourself, Thank you for that reminder. Many have said that I need to start getting out and now that DS will drink from a sippy cup I guess I should start pumping some milk so I can get away for a 3-4 hour break here and there.


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## KarenEMT (Aug 10, 2002)

I get so angry sometimes. I really think it stems from self-loathing. I hate how I look, I hate how I feel most days, and I feel like that little hamster in the wheel just with my regular expected daily activities. I also feel like almost everything is out of control. I can't count on the next time I'll sleep or when I'll have a couple of minutes to clear my head. I don't want to be mad at my precious kids.

DH and DS#1 are on the autism spectrum, so of course anything they do to anyone is MY problem and I have to "Fix" it. DH won't work more, he tells me to try to get more hours instead. I have constant $$ issues, so I can't just hire a babysitter and go away, how to afford that? I would love to join a health club or go on a long bike ride myself, but how to do that? So instead I feel the anger welling up and then the whole self-loathing cycle starts again...


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## Surfacing (Jul 19, 2005)

Hugs KarenEMT - just read the first two entries and am subbing so I can read the rest. There is another great thread in Personal Growth called Parenting and Rage. I'm an active participant on that one.















:


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## lolalola (Aug 1, 2006)

Subbing to read.


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## ktmama (Jan 21, 2004)

I'm really lucky that my kids are far apart in age (eight years) and I have the benefit of parenting my older dd and there are literally no siblings conflicts to manage in our household. I find it so much easier to be calm in a calm environment! I also feel lucky that I'm an older mama (42) and had a chance to work out most of my *stuff* in therapy long before my kids came along.

What I've seen a lot with American parents is that attachment causes suffering. Whether it's attachment to a certain ideal child behavior, attachment to the day flowing a certain way, attachment to a certain kind of loving relationship with a child, these things all interfere with peace and serenity because we can't accept people/situations/things on their own terms. I find my biggest struggle is to stay internally referenced, that is, to not reference myself to outside "experts", consumer-focused commercials, advice or examples from friends, etc....These comparisons only cause me stress.

What's helped me deal with my attachment and external reference challenges has been yoga. Since it's impossible to attain perfection in yoga, the focus must remain on the process of striving toward the ideal, while at the same time accepting you will never reach it. Reach and release. Try and let go.

I think the same can be said about GD. My personal philosophy is to be loving, but firm. The calmer I remain, the more my kids listen to me when I DO need to raise my voice (in a dangerous situation, for example).

Oh, one other things that's REALLY helped me is having realistic expectations of my kids based both on child development and on their own individual personalities.

Some random thoughts. Thanks for starting this great thread.


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## californiajenn (Mar 7, 2007)

"I wish I lived in neighborhood with kids. I get lonely and wish for a friend to pop over with her kids and have coffee with me while the kids play.
As it is I live in an apartment complex with mostly old people and the young couples move out to raise families."

Just so you know, I'm in the same situation. It's a shame as we have a huge courtyard with tons of room to play.


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## my2suns (Jan 3, 2003)

It is amazing to me to see how many mama's feel this from all over the world. I firmly believe that the lack of a support system is a big part of how we deal with our stressors. For a while I lived in a neighborhood where there were other SAHM's so our kids were always hanging together. We would sometimes sit on each others lawn and just vent to each other about whatever was going on in our lives. I felt like I had been to therapy after. It was such a healing event for all of us. If I knew S was having a tough day I'd get her kids to come hang at my house so she could get stuff done, take a nap, whatever she needed and vice versa. Now, I am in a new location and there are no SAHM's around. My family is 8 hours away and it is a more "clicky" area. It's hard. I told my DH the other day I feel trapped here. I feel stuck in the house, stuck in "my chores", stuck...stuck! After I screamed and cried it out, I did feel a little better. It was like yeah, I admitted how *I* feel.

As far as reacting goes, I read something that helped. "Anger has three components: 1-We perceive an object that we find unpleasant (ie: My child being loud in a store.) 2-We exaggerate the perceived harm (ie: Everyone will think my child is out of control, talk about me and stare at me) 3- We develop a wish to harm (ie: I wished I could shout at him and make him fear/obey me) Anger leads to a harming mind." If I read this enough that I can absorb it, I can see the spiral when I start to feel that irritation building. I am not saying it is easy to step back and there are days I hear this playing in my head after the fact that I have blown up. But I am feeling encouraged that it is playing at all. Maybe I am taking baby steps!!!!

Another thought "When we feel irritated or angry we need to admit we have chose to perceive the disturbance and judge it as "bad". ..is the situation REALLY worth such an emotional investment?" I guess it is that almighty pick you battle. There are days when I battle over everything with my children. That is when I see the control issues I have rear there ugly heads.

We are all on a journey and I believe that as long as we continue to talk to one another and support one another without judging (I can't believe she did that!!!!!) we will grow into the mothers we desire to be. Will we mess up, sure, but the beauty is that there is always another day and a fresh start. We have to look forward, not back and strive to do it better the next time. We are our own worst critics.









Peace-


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## GradysMom (Jan 7, 2007)

Let me first say I haven't taken the time to read respondses so sorry if I repeat...

I am a mom who gets angry and so far ds is pretty unaware when I nearly explode.

I think it reflects how I was raised, that I am not supported in my community in GD (and therefore over stretched) and the clincher for me is exhaustion. If I am over tired I can't cope.

For my situation I find it helpful to in the moment forgive myself for getting angry... given all the reasons above it makes sense that I will have bad days and moments.

Anger is a pretty genuine human emotion - it happens and the best anyone can do is model to your child the appropriate ways to express anger - by talking about it and by forgiving yourself.

GD and trying to be gentle doesn't make anyone a saint. AND I think feeling shame over your anger or failing to model all the spectrum of human emotion would be neglecting your childs need to feel normal themselves when they experience these emotions.

I don't want my child growing up resenting me because I ran around feeling superior because I never got angry... see what I mean.


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## alexsam (May 10, 2005)

I've been thinking about this thread (and idea) a lot the past 2 days. I realized another component of "mommy anger", which I think is actually part of guilt that feeds into anger...

I think that I (maybe some of you?) have unrealistic expectations of our children NEVER suffering or feeling pain or discomfort. I think we all look up sometime in the first three months or so of being a mother, gaze at our bundle of human perfection, a tear comes to our eye and we swear we will stand in front of a train before anyone harms this child. The mama bear has awoken. However, sheilding our children from all unpleasantness is impossible. We scramble that first year to satisfy every call, and usually with a working breast and some comforting words, we can solve all problems. Baby is never far- mine never was more than 20 feet from me until he was a year and a half (







:







). Then, they _want_. They want to climb at the playground. They want to play with other kids. They want _things_. The relationship becomes complex- can you give them what they want? Should you? And how about that big bad world out there? Toddlers yanking toys, pushing others. Big kids and mean words. Dangerous people. Cars. Accidents. I feel like since my heart and my soul ARE this child, every decision is hard: Let him play when I know he will get hurt? Not so simple. It leads to stress...

THEN the real kicker- am _I_ hurting my child? Am I my own enemy? I've sworn to protect him, and here I am doing something I'm not sure is right (or I know could be better). What kind of terrible mother _hurts_ her child? So, every snappy, impatient answer, every time something happens to ds, every time he misbehaves, I think- If I had only.... run faster, thought better, fought harder, learned more, was stronger.... Did I somehow hurt him? Am I to blame? Are my own failures harming him? Then, I get angry with myself, feeling that I somehow contributed to "hurting" my son.

Did I?

Of course, the answer is: Once in a while (and not on purpose), but overwhelmingly not. Pain, wanting, and the likes are part of the human experience. If I was the best, the absolute best mother in the world, my child could still fall off the jungle gym. He could still have a scary experience and memory. He could still get sick. He could still misbehave. Other childen (and adults) could still say mean things. He will ineveitably have his heart broken someday. He will one day wake up from a terrifying nightmare. He will suffer failures. All this can (and most likely will) happen because it is the nature of life itself. Protecting from these things really means avoiding fundamental growth and learning experiences. We miss the boat.

So, I get angry sometimes. When I see the big kids ignore his desire to play with them. When someone makes a snotty remark. When he falls on the front step when I should have thought to hold his hand. And then, I try to remember... this is life. HIS life. I didn't cause that pain, and since I can't always prevent it, my most important job is comforting him and helping him learn from the experience.


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## cpop (May 3, 2006)

Great thread!
I think the problem is not that we feel anger and frustration, but rather that we experience our children as the source of these feelings.
I guess I try to always remember that I am the source of my own anger. My DC are not 'making me angry'. They are doing their thing, and I am making myself angry.
I try to focus on the physical experience of the anger. Feel my blood rushing, the pressure in my head, my heart beating and remember that I am causing this feeling. I am angry because the reality of the moment is at odds with what I think SHOULD be.
It is basically a control issue. So I try to relax about things.
The hard thing, I think, is that taking care of our children is our job. Our job is to help them be warm, safe, fed, confident, happy. And our children are in many ways the objects of our job. The material that we work with, many of us 24/7.
Our jobs are, in our society, tied up with our identity. How well we do our job is important to our experience of our worth as people. We want to do well to feel good about ourselves.
But here is the problem: Our children are also people. They are people with whom we have realtionships. People are complicated. Relationships are complicated. I think many times children resent the way our identities are tied up in our parenting of them. I think the power struggles mainly come from this part of the relationship. The mom wants the kid to be clean, because it figures into her idea of what the child of a good mother looks like, the child could give a fig about this and wants to get dirty -- friction insues.
I think we often overparent, which leaves our kids feeling objectified and leaves us frustrated and also with this odd feeling that we are missing the point, iykwim. It is when we can relax and just be while letting our kids do the same that parenting is most rewarding.
I think our society is so obsessed with success and so goal oriented that we end up applying that to our relationship with our kids, where it has no place.
I often see this kind of thing happening on this board too. Competition for who is the most GD, who is the best mom, who is the most tireless, the most self-sacrificing. And it creates a sutle pressure all the time.
In short, I think the anger comes when our children threaten our view of ourselves as great mothers.


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## madskye (Feb 20, 2006)

I laugh a lot, and that helps. There's very little that "puts me over the edge" but it does happen. Just yesterday I was not proud of the struggle I got into with DD, 2, during a tantrum. The external stressors for me were that it was about 100% humidity and I had cramps, and I had woken up in a funk. I just couldn't deal as well as I normally do.

I totally agree that the lack of community/family support is a huge thing. A previous poster mentioned that daycare is really the new community, and I agree with that too. I have DD in daycare three half days a week, and I think that break really helps me, even though I love being with her and doing everything for her--I go to work for the three six hour days and and get 18 hours a week where someone else is in charge of the childcare and I can focus on work and whatever else.

Obviously, daycare is not realistic or desired for many families--but when I was in high school I babysat all the time for my aunt and her three daughters. I went on vacations with them, and was over her house most afternoons after school. She was a SAHM but she had help (Me!) and it was good for me and for her and for the kids.


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## guestmama9915 (Jul 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *my2suns* 
For a while I lived in a neighborhood where there were other SAHM's so our kids were always hanging together. We would sometimes sit on each others lawn and just vent to each other about whatever was going on in our lives. I felt like I had been to therapy after. It was such a healing event for all of us. If I knew S was having a tough day I'd get her kids to come hang at my house so she could get stuff done, take a nap, whatever she needed and vice versa.

That sounds like heaven.


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## open_sunflower (Jul 17, 2007)

What an amazing thread.
I KNOW that I get angry wayyy to much. Though, I am far better now then I was 10 years ago (when my oldest was born). I find that my anger almost always comes out on my DH and kids, more so the DH. I find for me my anger is almost never REALLY about what the kids or DH are doing. I am alnmost always angry at someone or something else and they get the spill over. When I am angry at the kids (though as I am typing that it sounds so horriable) is always because their not doing what I want them to do. I want the house clean and their messing it up type thing. Its mostly always a matter of a power struggle.For me I think my need for the "upper hand" came right out of my childhood. I learnt early on in my childhood that the weaker gets whacked. My parents were divorced and both sets of parents were quite abusive in all different ways, plus being molested by my grandfather, well oyu get the picture , it didnt set me up for a good model as far as that parent role. It didnt set me up ot REALLY know HOW to deal with REAL emotions. I learnt early on that being weaked SUCKED. So when I get angry is usually me trying to get back that power that I feel like I am losing. I have learnt though that I HAVE to take a step back. Count myself down and react from a place of loving my kids. Not from a place of , holy cow their trying to 'get me" becuase I really dont beleive that AND I am NOTHING like my parents. I know that sometimes my anger comes from resentment. But I have learnt that when I am feeling that way , its usually becuase I have not taken time for myself in awhile so I go for a walk and realign myself.
I feel like I have really not had a model of parent in my life which I actully think has helped me. I dont really have traits in me that I remeber from my childhood becuase I am completely opposite of anything my parents were and I have created my own parenting model and live by it. *shrugs* I am babbling.
cheers
pheen


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## Tinas3muskateers (May 19, 2004)

Its simple, we are human.


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## lolalola (Aug 1, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cpop* 
Great thread!
*I think the problem is not that we feel anger and frustration, but rather that we experience our children as the source of these feelings.
I guess I try to always remember that I am the source of my own anger. My DC are not 'making me angry'. They are doing their thing, and I am making myself angry.*
.................................................. .................................
Our jobs are, in our society, tied up with our identity. How well we do our job is important to our experience of our worth as people. We want to do well to feel good about ourselves.
*But here is the problem: Our children are also people. They are people with whom we have realtionships. People are complicated. Relationships are complicated.*
.................................................. .......................................
*In short, I think the anger comes when our children threaten our view of ourselves as great mothers.*


I haven't had a chance to read through all the responses yet, but I wanted to add a comment to this brilliant, and thought-provoking post.

I would argue that in fact, based on what you have so rightly pointed out in the second paragraph, that my children are, at times, the source of my anger and frustration. And, that's ok.

All intimate relationships produce intense feelings at times. I get angry at my husband, my mother, father, sister, and my friends, so why would my relationship(s) with my children be immune to anger?

The way I cope with anger and frustration produced by my children is to simply accept it. The anger doesn't last long, if I take the time to reflect on it. The world doesn't end, and I don't stop loving my kiddos.

I am also very intrigued by the last bolded sentence, and think it is very insightful.

I have to think on this a bit more, but I want to thank you for bringing up some really interesting points; you've given me a lot to think about.

Great thread, Ladies.


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## luv my 2 sweeties (Aug 30, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cpop* 
I am angry because the reality of the moment is at odds with what I think SHOULD be.
It is basically a control issue.

Coming in a bit late to this thread, but cpop has absolutely nailed the source of my most common anger with the above statement. (The rest of her post was pretty on-target for me as well.) This is such an interesting thread.

So often when I am angry, I *know* it's my own doing. For example, maybe I waited too long to start getting ready to go, so there is NO time for the kids to dawdle even a little and thus we are running late. I take some of my frustration out on the kids, "I don't KNOW where your shoes are! Why aren't they where they're supposed to be??" This makes me more angry, because I know my snapping at them is unjust. I'm angry at myself, really, but an angry mom is an angry mom, and some of it is bound to spill over onto whomever is in her path -- usually her kids.

That said, I do think isolation -- not only of mothers, but of nuclear families in general, including the children -- either has something to do with the anger itself or with our ability to manage anger from other sources. (Maybe both.) I just spent the past weekend camping with other families from our Quaker meeting. The fact that I had other adults to talk to, *and* that the kids spent some of their time at the other campsites meant that I stayed relaxed enough to "go with the flow" more easily than usual. There were times when all of the kids were at my campsite, of course. Those were the most "stressful" moments, but not in a bad way. I was simply aware of the responsibility and I had to spend some energy helping the children, getting them snacks, etc. After a while, they were off to somewhere else and the small burden of responsibility melted away until I needed to call my own children back to me for whatever reason. It was an ebb and flow that I don't generally experience in modern life, but I really enjoyed it!

I think mothers used to experience this ebb and flow more frequently when one's "community" was the same as one's geographical location -- the village, the neighborhood, etc. Now our supportive communities are often spread across distance. They are based at work, church, school, etc. They do provide important support, but not on a daily, practical level as can happen when you all live within walking distance of one another.


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

I agree that it can be a control issue, and that when I snap I usually later see some way that I could have avoided it. However, no human mom can avoid this anger all (or even most) of the time. I think that line of thinking just feeds the anger. Sometimes I _am_ gonna get upset and not handle it the best way. Sometimes I think it _is_ normal to be upset at a loss of control if your kids are driving you nuts. I just don't want to yell at them about it or act over the top.

I think we see all these anger management threads b/c we do expect so much out of ourselves and we are isolated and it's hard work. I mean I think it's a good thing to look at our anger, but I feel like my AP leanings make me want to NEVER be angry, which is really not OK either.


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## Fuamami (Mar 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hazelnut* 
I think we see all these anger management threads b/c we do expect so much out of ourselves and we are isolated and it's hard work. I mean I think it's a good thing to look at our anger, but I feel like my AP leanings make me want to NEVER be angry, which is really not OK either.

Well, yeah, and the other thing is that it's really hard to do AP in our society.

I mean, the whole premise is that we evolved to be happiest when we were the most attached to our mama, right? So that means nursing whenever we want so our reptilian brain learns that we'll always be in a time of feast and not famine. Being carried all the time so our reptilian brain learns that we're safe from the predators. Sleeping close for the same reason, etc, etc.

But in our society, we go to bed not when the sun goes down, but whenever we get done doing stuff. So then being woken up four or five times in the six hours we have allocated for sleep makes us so sleep-deprived we can't see straight. And, at least for me, I get so touched out from nursing on demand and carrying my kids around all the time that I want to scream. But there's no adolescent cousin, grandma, auntie, or sister around to hold the kids for awhile, just me and dh, trying not to kill each other.

It's just hard to find a balance! And I'm not even a hardcore APer!


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## muse (Apr 17, 2002)

Don't Bite the Hook: Finding Freedom from Anger, Resentment and other Destructive Emotions, by Pema Chodron

I'm listening to these CD's of Pema Chodron right now and couldn't help but think of this thread. I highly highly recommend them, since they affirm so much of what's been said here and offer tools for working with the anger when it arises.


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## Coco_Hikes (Nov 26, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *natensarah* 
Well, yeah, and the other thing is that it's really hard to do AP in our society.

I mean, the whole premise is that we evolved to be happiest when we were the most attached to our mama, right? So that means nursing whenever we want so our reptilian brain learns that we'll always be in a time of feast and not famine. Being carried all the time so our reptilian brain learns that we're safe from the predators. Sleeping close for the same reason, etc, etc.

All of the mamas who have replied to this thread have written such thoughtful replies. The second paragraph of the message I quoted is especially insightful. It's so easy to get caught up in the modern aspects of life, even while subscribing to AP ideas. My poor baby girl and her still-forming brain definitely need her mama to remember that her wanting me (and lately only me) to hold her isn't intended to drive me bonkers.


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