# Rant



## Elusive Dreams (Jul 26, 2002)

I have been readin through the posts, and my heart goes to each of you who have lost children, i myself have lost many, several of which have required a D&C I truely feel for each of your losses.
I would also like to take this minute to rant about a *discussion* i had with a trusted friend...... the mother of one of the pregnant girls i know.
When her daughter had her last baby 8 yrs ago, her SIL called her and wanted her advice on what to do, as it was a situation of we can possibly save one of them, which one to choose, the mother, or the baby.
Her response was save MY daughter, i can't love something i have ever known. This has come up several times because she knows that my family and DH have signed a directive that i have on file with my Dr's, my hospital, and my lawyer that states that if it comes to a choice like that, save my baby first.
She thinks i am dead wrong, that in a situation like that it is my life that should be saved, and if the baby dies, oh, well, you can't love something you have never known.
When her youngest was born, 27 yrs ago, she wouldn't touch, or look at her for 8 days, for the same reason. She said she couldn't love what she never knew, and if she died, then it wouldn't hurt as bad.
This really hurt me..... and it has truely harmed our friendship, because when she asked me if i truely felt that my baby's life was more important than my own, i replied yes, but that is how i was raised, then i showed her the copy of the advanced directive i carry in my purse, so i could show her i have my mothers support, because she was going on and on about how she would never be able to forgive her SIL if he did something like that.
This woman looked at me and said that the only reason my mother could sign something like that is because she wasn't actually a mother, that because she had never given birth, i meant less to my mother, than i would to a birth parent







My birth mother died when i was very young.... My mom has raised me all my life, and i have never doubted her love, so this only inflamed me. (my mother is a poster child against the old axiom that adopting will cause you to get pregnant....... she tried for 13 yrs, then adopted me, and i am an only child LOL)
When this woman finally got around to asking me what i thought about her SIL calling and asking her what to do, i told her i didn't understand why it had gotten to that point, why her SIL and DD hadn't discussed this as a possibility before it ever came up. She thought i was awful for saying that they, as a couple, should have outlined a decision, and not left it up to her.
This woman has had 3 live births, and 4 miscarraiges, or so she says, but given her *i can't love what i have never known* attitude, i wonder if she has ever had a M/C ..... i never got to hold any of the children i have lost, but i miss them, every day, i cry for the life they might have had, and i mourn thier passing. But, i also have to live life, had any of my children been live at birth, would that have made thier death any easier? or harder? i don't know, but i do know that life must, at some, point go on.
Does my desire to save my child, before my own life make me a bad person? I don't think so.... She threw it in my face that i was a christian, and as such i shouldn't feel that way. All i could do was look at her and tell her " No Greater love have a man than this, that he lay down his life for another"
She told me i was sick.
For more than 10 years i have counted this woman a friend, but now, i can't even stomache the thought of talking to her.
Am i wrong?

Em


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## moonglowmama (Jan 23, 2002)

Dear Em,
i don't think you're wrong in the feelings you have. Your post brought up some feelings for me. I was adopted by my mom's new husband when I was 4, as my biological dad was unable to care for me in any way.

I imagine that with your life experience being such a happy one with your mother, that the death of your birth mother, though profound, was not the devastating event that those of us without the same experience would have imagined it to be. That sounds not like exactly what i'm trying to say. I just mean that for me, for example, and maybe your friend too, I almost feel like if I were to die, I'd want God to take my son too, because he needs me so much. Of course, as he gets older I see that he does great with dh and I would want them to have each other if I died.

Having said that, I personally can't understand people with the mindset of not loving someone you don't know, who isn't born yet, but we all have different mechanisms for dealing with life. And as she has had several miscarriages, it may be easier for her to deal with her losses by telling herself she didn't really mis out on anything, they were too young to love. Probably the same reason she didn't see her daughter for those 8 days. The fear of losing her made her protect herself in that way.

I can understand your feeling so upset about all of this. It might be helpful to your friendship, should you decide to keep it, to try to imagine that her life, her background is different from yours, and so it makes sense that you could differ on something, even such a big something.

After reading your post again, it seems to me that she is possibly having some strong feelings about not seeing her baby 27 years ago for so long. She is probably restimulated by some events going on around her, and so she's dealing with it through you. Maybe she regrets that time missed, maybe talking about that or whatever issue is really troubling her could help her. She may just need someone to listen, to affirm that she's a good mother, etc. Her real problem may be less about you and more about her own hurts.

Hope some of this helps.
Sarah


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## Elusive Dreams (Jul 26, 2002)

Sarah,
Thank you for your reply.
I must admit i was so blinded by the hurt i was feeling to stop and look at her side of it. Which was not very fair of me.

I am pretty sure you are right about this being her way to cope. and i do understand that we all have defenses.

I am sorry your experience with adoption has not been as positive as mine..... my mom died when i was 3 1/2. then it was pillar to post for a year as i was shuffled from one foster family to another, so i guess when i was offered a stable home, i was just glad to know it wasn't going to stop being there.
I really have no idea how to explain it......

Again, thank you for answering me, it gave me a chance to stop, and see this from another side, not just my side, from behind the walls that i am so quick to put up ( a relic of my youth).

Many







to you for waking me up
Em


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## StarMama (Jun 25, 2002)

Oh Em! That must have been such a difficult conversation! A difference of opinion is one thing, but to say your mother doesn't love you and to critize your religion and say you're sick is not the sign on a friend. I agree, it sounds like she is trying to make up for situations in her past, but sheesh it still isn't right to treat you like that! I would seriously consider if this friendship was worth the negativity... you really deserve an appology if nothing else! Just because you both believe different things does not give her a right to say cruel things to you!


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## Ms. Mom (Nov 18, 2001)

Thinking about this deeply. I remember when my daughter was born still, my mother-in-law kept telling me she wasn't real and I'd have a baby some day.

I have to say, I loved her before she was ever created. I loved her when I was a child dreaming of her. She was a part of me, my spirit, my soul. She still is.

Can you love someone you've never met - absolutely! I think now, if one of my kids lost a child I would feel it profoundly!

But, we also have to think back to the mentality of the 50's. Women were told to forget a lost child and go on. They didn't have the power or knowledge to do otherwise. So that's what they did.

We now wonder why people grow up so shut off from things and numb to feelings and emotions? We can't change what happend then, but now we know better. Feelings are one of the only things we truly own. They're a part of who we are. If we allow ourselves to feel, we'll move through them and resolve them. You can't resolve something you don't understand.

I wrote this right after my daughter died...

*Grandma Please*

Why can't you say it?
Amanda Leigh
Your granddaughter's name
Amanda Leigh
I know she died before you got to know
Her loving spirit did not grow
But you say the other's
You call thier names
You see their faces
You play 'Grandma Games'
Why can't you say it?
Amanda Leigh
Don't you know she was inside me?
She lived and kicked
Her heart did beat
Why can't you say it?
Amanda Leigh
Grandma Please!
Amanda Leigh
She was alive inside of me!
Please say it
Amanda Leigh

This is another good poem by someone dear to me Debbie Dickenson

*Winter Promise*

The day slowly dissolved into dusk,
leaving behind the newness of the
morning and the miricle of your birth.
Though winterbrief the time that was left,
your love will remain with me always.
I gently kissed you one last time
before you went with the day
to become a memory for me to hold
when I can't hold you any other way.


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## StarMama (Jun 25, 2002)

Oh Jacque those are beautiful poems! And I can truly attest to loving a child before it is born. Or concieved. I spent a great deal of last night in tears over the fact that we just aren't in a good position to have children right now. I have loved my children-to-be furiously since I decided when I myself was a child that there was nothing more in the world I wanted than to be a Mother. *Sigh* it sucks to feel rushed to have kids at age 24... (my mother went thru menopause @ 30... I have to assume this may happen to me too... and I want a few kids... spaced apart a little bit...... if I can).

Sorry didn't mean to go off topic there...


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

Hi Em,
Well, she sounds like a negative person - do we really need negative people in our lives? I know I have felt much better after letting go of people who were a negative presence in my life. If someone is not supportive or makes you laugh or some other postivite thing, why keep them in your life? I believe you said she was the mother of a friend. You can still be close to your friend without being around her mother, right?
That said, the only thing I can say is that it is probably a very touchy topic for her and emotions were running high. Even so, she was wrong to make such disrespectful comments to you.
I think you are being very unselfish by thinking of the baby first. The only point I want to make is that if a person had a child already, it would be hard for me to be supportive of choosing the new baby's life over the mother's. Terrible, painful choice to make but I feel the mother's presence in the life of the child already here deserves some consideration too. Of course the new baby's life is precious and deserves consideration. It would be an awful situation to be in and I commend you for thinking out all your options for each situation - even the bad situations. I am sure you have put much time into your decision. I hope you have a wonderful pregnancy, labor and healthy baby!
Kirsten


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## Elusive Dreams (Jul 26, 2002)

Kristen,

Thank you for your input.
you are completely correct in saying that if one already had children, perhaps the decision would not be for the child, but rather for the mother, but as i have no living children, we decided that my child would deserve a chance in life..... since i have already had a life to live.

The object of my decision was to be prepared, to not leave such decisions up to someone else, because it would be a truely horrible spot to be in. I am very pleased that both my mother, and my husband support me in this decision.

I am hoping i will never face this, but if i should, i will rest easier knowing that the decisions..... the hard ones, anyway....... have already been made. And with this having been done, no one can point fingers at anyone but me.

Never will anyone in my family ever be able to say "you did this" to anyone but me. And i can tell you that if someone decided to save my life over my baby's life, i would forever wonder if my child could have been saved........ or if someone else had to decide to save my baby, my mother, or husband, might always wonder if i could have been saved, so i am taking that away from them...... now if such an awful thing happens, i am the only one responsible for such hard decisions.

Just as i have a living will, i have also made these advanced directives, and, for me, it is part of being a responsible adult.
I have seen first hand the results of not having advanced directives, or a living will, and i have seen the strife it can make in families, and it is my disire to avoid ever having it happen in my family


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