# "No gifts" rule? Anybody done this?



## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Has anybody instituted a rule with their families/friends that DC may not receive gifts of toys and "things"? I decided this is a necessary step to stem the tide of junky, unappreciated toys that my ILs constantly flood Ds with. Every time he visits, it's a new freakin' toy. Every holiday (*every* holiday, not just Xmas and his birthday) he gets a bag or basket of toys. And they're without exception poorly chosen toys, cheap things with umpteen pieces, zero versatility, battery-powered gimmicks. We've had several discussions about this with them & I think at this point it's being unrealistic to think they'll ever "get" it. To them, Stuff Is Love.

The problem is (and this is how I'm thinking of explaining it to them) they give all this stuff thinking it'll make Ds happy, but it ends up making us all miserable. The other night Dh & I had yet another stress-filled, traumatic, awful episode of cleaning up Ds' room ... and yes there was yelling on our part and tears on his







: There was a literal carpet of broken toy bits on his floor. The toys are fun for about an hour, then they become "crap" that's impossible to keep neat, sets poor Ds up for failure as far as keeping an orderly environment & makes it hard for him to find the things he really enjoys playing with over & over.

Not to mention what it all teaches him about the disposability (is that a word?) of possessions and the habits of consumerism. The ILs are in heavy consumer debt right as they're on the brink of retirement, despite having 2 good salaries, because of MIL's compulsive need to acquire material things. DH & I struggled to free ourselves from a similar pit & I don't want Ds to have to do it too.

Anyway, I know this is NOT going to go over well with the IL's & their family (my family might take it a little better, but then, they're more sane about presents anyway). I figure the rule will be, no "things", but they are welcome to give him time, or experiences (trips to the zoo, gift certificates for a neat resturant, coupons good for a picnic or afternoon of cookie baking).

So if you made it to the end of this novel







: my questions are, have you instituted a rule like this? How did your family take it & how did you get them to accept it? Did they ever get used to it? Was it hard for your Dc to adjust to no longer getting piles of presents? Did *they* get used to it? Did the whole thing work like you thought it would?


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## thoesly (Dec 23, 2003)

I don't have a "rule" about gifts, but I have made requests. For instance, I have asked that presents be arts and crafts types of things -- we can always use more crayons, clay, paper, etc. They are easy to store and the kids get more use out of them. Also, for Christmas presents, I ask family members to get one present that all three of my kids can enjoy together. I let the kids have their own presents for their birthdays, but Christmas is about family and sharing, and I don't want that focus lost in a pile of gifts.

Some family members respect our wishes and others do not. I can do nothing about that and I don't try -- trying to change someone else is pointless.


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I haven't but I'm considering some solutions to gift giving. I asked my parents to contribute financially to our next visit instead of giving DC a birthday gift and I've asked for a contribution to a larger gift from other people (diaper service and etc.)

I think what you're asking is absolutely and perfectly reasonable. I'm just offering some other suggestions.

DC has a birthday coming and I'm worried about the excess because last year was a mess! I may be right there with you in another week!


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Thoesly, I've tried making requests to the ILs. I even requested art supplies, in fact, and Ds got junk like disposable "no mess" paintbrushes (you dip them in water, the paint's already there) and different gimmicky "kits". DH & I even set a limit one year: "ONE GIFT." Guess what "one gift" was? A big box filled with junky little things! Where was it all after a week? On the floor, or in the trash







: The problem is that MIL seems honestly incapable of going through a critical thought process about whether something's worth buying, KWIM?

And although I may not be able to change their *opinions*, I can and IMO should change what we allow them to give our children (I know the avalanche will start with DD soon, she's 6mos). They're free to disregard my wishes & continue buying things .... but those things won't come in my house.

ICM, thanks for the ideas! Maybe I could add bonds or some other financial gift (in Ds' name) to the list of "acceptables". Good luck with the birthday piles


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

I really struggle with this. I am such an anti-clutter/anti-junk freakazoid, it literally makes me anxious when I feel like there is too much stuff in my house. DD really doesn't play with toys - she would much rather play with the dogs or do art projects. She has a very active imagination.

There is a part of me that really wants everyone to please stop with the gifts! I also worry about what that teaches, that we need "stuff" to be happy. I also think it takes away from the specialness of receiving something. I remember getting presents twice a year - birthday and hanukkah. If I got something outside of those times, it was a huge deal and I remember to this day how special those little extras were. Now it seems that when we get together for any family occasion, DD spends half the time ripping open toys and then tossing them aside.

But then there is another side that realizes the truth about giving: everyone gives because they are getting something in return. Whether it is to be polite, whether it is because it is something they wanted when they were young, whether it is because they want to be thanked and appreciated - everyone has their own (often subconcious) agenda. So when you ask someone not to give, you are also denying them the chance to get something themselves.

I think the idea of redirecting is a good one. If asked, I will often ask people for art supplies, music, books, dress-up clothes, or coloring books. If not asked, I just take it, wait for everyone to leave, and then I put it in my "good will drop off" bag. If dd is very attached to one or more of the items, I let her have it. I cannot blame you one bit for wanting to request "no gifts" but even if you do, prepare yourself for the probability that the gifts will come anyway.

I've come to terms with the fact that you really can't stop people from giving, but you can try to make the gifts easier to deal with.

Good luck!


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## MaritimeMermaid (Jul 30, 2004)

I hear you on the "No junk gifts" rule. To avoid suffocation, we've had no choice but to institute a "No (more) stuffed animals" rule for my 4yo. This rule gets broken occasionally (The Comic Shop Guy gave her "Summer Fun Cuddly Cthulhu" toy last Yule







). People have been good about no longer giving her generic teddy bears, Easter rabbits, etc every year, though.

I also usually ask that her gifts not have commercial cartoon characters on them. We haven't had cable tv since before she was born, though she does know some of these characters from DVDs and computer games. She has a very few cartoon items, including her Dora the Explorer bike, but, since she has never been exposed to TV commercials and rarely sees a mall, I don't think she has any idea of the full scope of cartoon merchandise. I want to keep it that way.

A few of things we do ask for are magazine subscriptions, gift certificates toward dance, music and art lessons and contributions to her Registered Education Savings Plan.


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## thoesly (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*
Thoesly, I've tried making requests to the ILs. I even requested art supplies, in fact, and Ds got junk like disposable "no mess" paintbrushes (you dip them in water, the paint's already there) and different gimmicky "kits". DH & I even set a limit one year: "ONE GIFT." Guess what "one gift" was? A big box filled with junky little things! Where was it all after a week? On the floor, or in the trash







: The problem is that MIL seems honestly incapable of going through a critical thought process about whether something's worth buying, KWIM?

Any chance they would consider gift cards or even a special shopping trip *with* you and your child instead? People who give gifts want to give pleasure, so maybe a trip where they can see what types of things are genuinely preferred would help -- maybe not, but at least it would be something proactive you could do. I think this is an area where it is important to respect boundaries -- if they don't respect your wishes, you have the right to put their offerings in the donation box, but telling them you refuse to accept their gifts or you will only accept certain types of gifts runs the risk of doing real damage to the relationship (which, really, is the only gift that matters.)


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## Losgann (Jun 24, 2004)

We've done this mostly for birthdays. "No presents but your presence" kinda thing.. We invite a few kids over for cake, ice cream and fun and they watch my kids open their gifts from mom and dad.. Really they have so much all ready, and I'd much rather my kids enjoy their friends for the friendship and not the gifts.

I get away with it by springing birthday parties at the last minute. I ring up the moms and ask "Hey can your kiddoes come over for cake and ice cream." "Sure! When?" "Uhh.. in about twenty minutes?"







It's worked the last two years in a row.

We don't have a big close family so too many gifts at Christmas hasn't really been an issue..

All the candy holidays (Easter, Halloween).. that's where we run into trouble! Not to change the subject, but has anyone gone 'no candy', or at least less candy?

piscean mama
and the cap toothed gang


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## thoesly (Dec 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *piscean_mama*
All the candy holidays (Easter, Halloween).. that's where we run into trouble! Not to change the subject, but has anyone gone 'no candy', or at least less candy?

My kids have food issues, and candy can be a problem. Here's what we do: They collect the candy trick-or-treating, and they get to have 3 pieces each (we let them choose from a selection of pieces that won't make them sick -- we keep some on hand just in case they don't get any acceptable pieces) Then, they leave the rest out for the "Great Pumpkin" who steals it away in the night and replaces it with a new book for each child (we can never have too many books!)


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## MaritimeMermaid (Jul 30, 2004)

We're trying to go no/less candy, but I'm as addicted as dh and dd are- perhaps even more so. Candy and fun were inseparable in my house when I was a kid. If anyone else is in a similar situation, we should start a support thread in Nutrition.

eta: thoesly- I just saw your "Offerings for the Great Pumpkin" idea, and I love it. We will probably try something like that this year. dd is VERY big on rituals right now! (Of course, the question is, will dh and I have the resolve not to eat the candy ourselves?







)


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thoesly*
maybe a trip where they can see what types of things are genuinely preferred would help

We've referred them to certain stores & catalogues, & pointed out specific items. Either we get "They're too expensive!" (she's willing to spend $30 on a box of crap that'll be broken/used up in days, but not $30 on one longlived, versatile toy) or she goes out & finds some cheap, plasticky, gimmicky version of what we suggested (HOW does she do this I ask! aughh!!).

Quote:

I think this is an area where it is important to respect boundaries
I don't agree that this is a "boundary" that they're owed respect for. Their right to swing their fist ends at my nose, kwim? I'm not willing to let my household be disrupted and my ds be miserable & overwhelmed (honestly, he is) in the name of "respect". The respect that's owed here, imo, is for our parenting choices.

As far as accepting & then donating their gifts, how do you think that would affect ds? Whenever he's given something new, he's excited, because it IS something new, and it's from his Nana & Grampa. To have him receive gifts & take them away from him, either before or after the unwrapping stage, would surely punish him unfairly for a situation that's not his fault.

Quote:

telling them you refuse to accept their gifts or you will only accept certain types of gifts runs the risk of doing real damage to the relationship (which, really, is the only gift that matters.)
Yes, but the inappropraite nature of their gift-giving & inability to set limits on themselves *is*, right this minute, doing damage to our relationships here in our immediate family.

Look, honestly, I've tried with these people. I appreciate your suggestions but frankly I don't see material gifts for a child that already has everything he needs to be such an important thing to defend. And that's really what it comes down to. _He has all he needs._ More things aren't going to make him happier. And I believe that's become an essential lesson for him and his grandparents to learn.


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LoveBeads*
when you ask someone not to give, you are also denying them the chance to get something themselves.

Yes, but if you re-read my OP, you'll see I'm not asking anyone not to give. I'm putting a moratorium on *things*. They're as free as the wind to give of themselves in ways that don't involve plunking down money at Big Lots for whatever's on sale. We in our immediate family have been giving this way for years now.

Also, I think it would be more than a little whacked for adults to feel upset about not giving gifts to a child out of a belief that it would somehow cut down on their own haul!


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## thoesly (Dec 23, 2003)

Ok. I'm going to respectfully bow out because none of my suggestions are helping. We seem to have different values and priorities, and I don't think we will ever come to agreement -- and we don't have to. Best of luck to you finding a solution that works for your family.


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## LoveBeads (Jul 8, 2002)

I was merely trying to point out that it is a frustrating exercise to tell people how to give, as they give for their own reasons. I didn't understand your second paragraph unless you misinterpreted what I meant by "getting" something out of giving - I was talking about an emotional "getting" (it feels good to spoil my grandchild), not a material one.

But I can see that I'm making you frustrated so I'll bow out of the discussion.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

I think it would be wrong to say NO GIFTS. You can say NO XYZ. You can suggest ideas. Mom instead of giving a toy why not you bring cookie making stuff and make cookies together. The cookies will be gone quick enough. Dad, you are good at playing cards why not buy DC cards and teach him how to play a game. Find an activity that they can build on and "gift" to their children in better ways.

You have a trash can. Use it for toys. If you push this to much you are more likely to do more harm than good.

It does feel good to give to a grandchild. Many times grandparents do this because they could not do it for their own children. Many grandparents don't realize that they have talents that can be passed on to their grandchildren.


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

I'm sorry you feel it's wrong. I've been through literally 5 years of negotiating, suggesting, asking, and line-drawing and the situation has reached a point where allowing them to continue to indulge *themselves* by flooding Ds with meaningless possessions is doing far more harm than good.

I would really like to hear from someone else who's passed a "no *things* as gifts" rule. Am I really the first one ever?


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

Can you try to encourage the behavior in the kids that you wish the in-laws had?

Do a 1 toy in, 1 toy out policy, or one box of stuff out, for one in. Then your kids will have to prioritize what they want to own and take care of. What's worth the space?


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## dan_in_taipei (May 25, 2004)

We're due our first in November so I can't say how our "plan" will effect our little Max, however, we've let all the grand & great grand parents know that when one toy enters our house one will be leaving. Once Max is old enough he will get to choose which one he gives to needy children. This way I'm hoping the grandparents etc will choose their gifts more carefully and also, I can pass onto Max the necessity of looking after others who are less fortunate than he.

This may help in your situation, you may find your dc decides to get rid of the new "crappy" gift in order to keep those that he plays with more often and they will learn that it's not just about getting it's about giving as well. If you can't control the gp at least you can control how it effects your household.

Hope this helps & good luck.
Dani


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## dan_in_taipei (May 25, 2004)

apricot, snap! thinking along the same lines.


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## RiceMomma (Jul 23, 2004)

My IL's are always giving us lots of stuff (I'll try not to call it junk







second hand happymeal toys, toys with only half the parts, dirty stuffed animals, ect...) It's stuff that other people gave them, or they found in the junky discount bin or at garage sales ect... They have always struggled with money and their kids never had alot, so like your ILs, it's like stuff is love. I haven't yet been able to change a single thing my IL's do. I also think I could cause some hurt feelings by declining their "gifts."

They have good intentions- gotta love that.

Basically, all that "stuff" goes straight to Goodwill or the garbage.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*

I would really like to hear from someone else who's passed a "no *things* as gifts" rule. Am I really the first one ever?









You might want a plan b (and you've got some good ideas here). I know you are fed up and frustrated







2 , but I don't know if they will abide by the no gifts rule and/or if the emotional pain and relationship strain of getting them to abide it will be worth the gain of less/no stuff coming in. I know you feel like it can't get worse than it is, but imagine their feeling tehya nd ds are deprived and unintentionally passing thier sense that ds is being deprived to ds. Emotional rifts and resentments could cause more lasting damage than a room full of crappy toys. You will help you ds learn anti-material values through modeling more than through any other parenting practice.

Also, I grew up without much, and so when I first got an after school job I REALLY felt like I could be happy though stuff and that there was an end point to getting stuff. I only learned by buying lots of stuff that it wouldn't make me happy and that there was always more stuff to want/need. All my parents modeling of anti-materialitic values and all thier lectures didn't sink in till I actaully could fullfill most of my material desires and see that it got me no where. Sooo - getting lots of toys might NOT be the beginning of a materialistic son, it (along with your modeling and your lectures) might help him learn that things won't fill the void inside him.

Good luck


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *piscean_mama*
All the candy holidays (Easter, Halloween).. that's where we run into trouble! Not to change the subject, but has anyone gone 'no candy', or at least less candy?

piscean mama
and the cap toothed gang


Oh No. Don't do that. MIL raised her kids that way and they are all a bunch of big candy freaks. I mean Obsessed.

Here is what we do. After a birthday party all of the candy from the treat bag goes in a giant jar. On haloween they can eat five small treats and then its in the jar. Every night after dinner they get a treat. The candy from parties and Haloween tend to be small servings, perfect for a little treat. My kids are so not obsessed.

MIL can't believe there is a giant jar of candy on our counter and kids never even bother with it unless its treat time. I guess she neve heard about forbidden fruit.


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*
So if you made it to the end of this novel







: my questions are, have you instituted a rule like this? How did your family take it & how did you get them to accept it? Did they ever get used to it? Was it hard for your Dc to adjust to no longer getting piles of presents? Did *they* get used to it? Did the whole thing work like you thought it would?

Wow, you have a real nightmare on your hands.







All that CRAP everywhere, adding up all the time. Ugh.

I would LOVE to read other answers to those questions too (though I don't have it nearly as bad as you.)

Since your house is visibly overrun by junk, and you don't live in a mansion or a 50,000 sq foot store that can neatly store everything... then I would just "do what I had to do..."

(Side bar: I have a friend, AP mom, twin mom whose mom is dysfunctional and buys WAY TOO MUCH... you get the picture. Her house was/is a mess. She secretly confided that she is "brutal" and just chucks a lot of it. I feel more sorry for the landfills!)

Obviously your ILs, etc... are deaf. They ignore everything you say.









Fine. Be civil. Don't bother arguing with them anymore. Accept the situation and make it work FOR YOU. Say thank you... and then donate them to a needy cause (woman's shelter, etc....) rather than have them end up in a landfill.

When they ask "where's X." You say the truth... "we have no room, we rotate toys and it's in the garage right now." (if that's the case.) Or "we have no room, we donated it."

If they get angry... oh well...







Sorry. Just be civil and respectful, but matter of fact. Don't get sucked into the emotional vortex that they try to pull you into (GUILT.) You don't need to get all emotional on them. Reality is reality. You simply do not have the room. End of story.

Then maybe THEY'LL stop buying so many dang toys.

I have not read the entire thread, but agree







with the following.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thoesly*
if they don't respect your wishes, you have the right to put their offerings in the donation box, *but telling them you refuse to accept their gifts or you will only accept certain types of gifts runs the risk of doing real damage to the relationship (which, really, is the only gift that matters.)*

Actually, I disagree with the bold part. Have your requests "ruined" your relationship? Doesn't sound like it. It sounds like they just simply ignore you.

I would NEVER mention or use the "useless electronic toy" argument ever again b/c older folks just don't get it. It makes you sound nuts, and therefore, someone they should just ignore.

I would just STOP telling them what to buy or what not to buy, since they are incapable of absorbing that information... and not because it will damage your relationship, but because it simply falls on deaf ears and only frustrates you.

I'm lucky, Grandmom mostly buys clothes and those are always welcome and needed!!!

As far as your kids are concerned... someone else mentioned this I think... if you want a new toy, you have to get rid of an old one... Otherwise there is no room. I just told this to DS the other day and he looked around my messy family room and saw a KAZOO on the floor and said, "OK, let's get rid of this." :LOL








T A friend did the "NO GIFTS" for her DD's 2nd birthday (or was it first?) and she did an







amazing thing. Instead of gifts, she requested CHILDREN'S BOOKS so she could donate it to her local church (or some local children's charity.) That was freakin' awesome!


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## Tanibani (Nov 8, 2002)

T







T







T

Quote:


Originally Posted by *maya43*
Oh No. Don't do that. MIL raised her kids that way and they are all a bunch of big candy freaks. I mean Obsessed.

Here is what we do. After a birthday party all of the candy from the treat bag goes in a giant jar. On haloween they can eat five small treats and then its in the jar. Every night after dinner they get a treat. The candy from parties and Haloween tend to be small servings, perfect for a little treat. My kids are so not obsessed.

MIL can't believe there is a giant jar of candy on our counter and kids never even bother with it unless its treat time. I guess she neve heard about forbidden fruit.

Wow - great idea Maya. I especially appreciate the MIL experience.

PISCEAN mama - I would NOT do that either. A mommy friend at DD's preschool said she was raised by a chiro/natural dad who NEVER let her have candy when other kids did. She said she always felt like the freak.









As much as I despise candy/junk food, I usually say yes if neighborhood kids offer him some at the park but my rule is ONLY ONE! I think that's fair and sane.

But I would LOVE to see a separate thread on this topic if anyone wants to start one. Would love to read what everyone does.

Sadly, since I am so "anti" he does go nuts for candy.







How do I change that???? A treat a night for 5 days????


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## elephantheart (Sep 2, 2004)

I'm so glad I'm not the only one dealing with this. I am SO sick of all the crap that is brought into my home!

I have made such a point with my family, and they continue to buy total junk. It infuriates me.
I made a pretty big point about wanting my girls to grow up with fairly gender neutral toys- I want my girls to be interested in cars and airplanes just as much as ballet and dress up, you know? But without fail, every holiday, my sister buys them anything and everything she can find that is pink and plastic. Makeup kits for crying out loud. They're all 4 and under! I have said stuff so many times, that now I let them play with it until it inevitably ends up in the "we don't care about that one anymore pile" (say, 10 minutes?) and then throw it out! If it's something they do like, such as the makeup, which they obsess over , I put it high up on a shelf where they can't see it, and every once in a while if they remember they've got it, I'll let them have a little.
I do agree that saying flat out no, none, never, can create a bigger problem. My parents were that way with alot of stuff when I was growing up, and as teenagers all of my siblings and I completely freaked out. My sister, still to this day- you cannot get in her apartment there is so much decorator stuff from Garden Ridge and Pier One. You can't even sit down on the couch! And don't even get me started on what it's like in there at Christmas time....!!!! And I firmly believe it stems from my parents way over the top "minimalist" life style while we were kids.


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Thanks for the hug, Tanibani. Yeah, it's a nightmare. I've struggled miserably with it for years now because I didn't want to upset the ILs. No more!

Quote:

As far as your kids are concerned... someone else mentioned this I think... if you want a new toy, you have to get rid of an old one... Otherwise there is no room.
I thought about this, and actually tried it briefly. The problem I have with it is, it reinforces the possessions-as-disposable mindset that I hate so much. I'd much rather Ds have a tried-and-true assortment of versatile, high-play-value toys (with occasional new additions) than constantly be cycling through whatever has the luster of novelty to it.

Besides, the logistics of it bite ... we have a very small house with simply no room for the perpetual bag of stuff that would be waiting to be donated (yes, it's that bad. I swear).

As an aside, the ILs would never be so direct as to ask "where's x?" No, MIL would "casually mention" how she picked out x cause she thought it was cute, but if we didn't like it we don't have to keep it, but she thought ds would like it, but we're the parents, guilt guilt guilt ... I'm convinced that underneath, a lot of this "giving" is really a strange control issue for her. If stuff = love, and she provides the most stuff, then she will have "bought" the biggest portion of ds' love?


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elephantheart*
I do agree that saying flat out no, none, never, can create a bigger problem. My parents were that way with alot of stuff when I was growing up, and as teenagers all of my siblings and I completely freaked out.

Really? Hm. Thinking furiously now.

Just to clarify, it's not as if we'd be laying down a no new toys, ever, from anyone, rule. (Once in a while Ds gets his heart set on something ... just before last Christmas it was a guitar, so DH found a really neat small one. Ds still hauls that thing out to twang on daily :LOL I don't think any of the stuff he got from the ILs for Xmas was in use after January.) And he gets his allowance which he can spend almost entirely as he chooses.

And I bet he'd be just as thrilled, if not more so, with tickets for a train ride or zoo passes than with yet another cheap tool set or more tiny cars. (I hear you about the sexist toys! I hear you!)


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## Xenogenesis (May 1, 2002)

I haven't had a need to institute a rule with family that my DC's may not receive gifts of toys and "things"? I'm not sure they know I have children.

My friends give us time. My kids love them.

I do understand the bits of broken plastic toys. It's a nightmare.

Can you somehow explain that the cheaper toys end up in the garbage?

Ps. If you've ever been on antibiotics or had a yeast "infection" you might have a yeast imbalance contributing to the sugar fiend in you. The yeast needs to be fed.


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## Jane (May 15, 2002)

dan,


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## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

I go so, so, so crazy when people suggest negotiating, one-toy-in-one goes-out, taking them shopping... I'm sorry, there's a point where you can't let the toxic gift-givers keep making you have to expend your limited energy because they refuse to respect your boundaries.

I am brutal. Inappropriate toys go straight to Goodwill - and I resent even having to do that. I always said I would be brutal with everyone except my 85yo grandmother, who never comes to my house anyway. But one day I was over visiting her and she had bought my infant son a giant motor-power car AND EXPECTED ME TO TAKE IT HOME TO MY TINY YARDLESS URBAN APARTMENT. I'm not happy that she was disappointed. But my house is not a landfill.

Dealing with gifts isn't like spending time with a bigot, or putting up with cigarette smoke, or going someplace you'd rather not go to preserve family harmony. You're being asked to house and care for cartloads of objects. You trip over them, you have to keep the clean and organized, they affect the way you can live in your space.

When people refuse to respect your boundaries, the suck thing is you don't have any good choices. You're going to offend them by saying "no gifts" but dealing with the gifts is awful too.

I grew up absolutely snowed under by millions of pieces of plastic crap. It was horrible. I couldn't keep my room clean; I was completely overwhelmed. I'm not letting me children deal with that.


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Quote:

I'm convinced that underneath, a lot of this "giving" is really a strange control issue for her.
It seems like this is the case often.

The other issue, is I think grandparents try to live vicariously through their grand kids. There is that whole issue as well of the kids not feeling "left out" or different, and the idea that there must be tons of presents under the Christmas tree, or your child will think he/she wasn't as good as the kid down the street.

Many have the mentatlity that now that they do not have to deal with the repercussions, anything goes!

What is difficult for me personally to watch is my kids receive piles of things that they don't really particularly like, while the one or two toys they REALLY want never materialize. It breaks my heart, because I am not in a fianacial position often to buy new toys, and I can not always find what they want at a garage sale, or Thrift store.

What happened to the days when Ma Ingalls was yearning after that dress fabric, but didn't have the money to buy it, and it mysteriously appeared under the tree, or Laura worked extra to buy it for her birthday? It's just an example, but to me, giving a gift that someone really wants is important, because I know it will be loved, cherished, used, and taken care of.


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## aguacates (Sep 17, 2003)

I think you have every right to ask your family not to give material gifts. Of course, you also have to accept that they may choose to do so anyway. If they haven't responded to your requests yet, it seems unlikely that they are going to suddenly get it.

DD is only 13 months, but for her birthday I sent out emails to relatives who tend to send her things, and politely requested no plastic. I gave a list of websites and specific suggestions, while knowing that ILs would buy whatever anyway. Fortunately they don't live here, so when the box in the mail arrived, I opened her gifts to peek while she was sleeping. She got a "Little Mommy" doll, that was plastic, came with a bottle, bib, and other plastic accessories. I returned it to walmart (where I knew they bought it) and bought her books. When I wrote a Thank-you note, I didn't mention the doll, I just thanked them for the pajamas they sent, and the book they sent, and reiterated how much dd likes books. I realize that dd is young enough for me to get away with this kind of stuff, but I'm hoping that by being firm enough about things now, we will keep the issue from getting out of hand.

Now, back to your situation. I would try it. And I would include something with the request like, "I will always cherish the memory of Grandma taking me to the Zoo when I was 5, I would love for DS to have similar memories with you. I know you love him, and want to spoil him a little, but (your) gifts tend to break, and memories don't" Okay, I'm sure there is a better way of saying that, but something along those lines. Anyway, I feel for you. Toxic gift giving is rough on everyone.


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## fyrflymommy (Jan 20, 2003)

.


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## sm3247 (May 9, 2003)

I actually think that although this idea has its pitfalls, it's a pretty good one. Too many toys is not such a problem in our house. My FIL (MIL is dead) is not a big gift giver - he can't figure out what to get, so he pretty much takes our strong hints and has gotten DS very nice gifts that we picked in advance. We live far enough away from my parents and they have 4 other grandkids that we don't really get too much from them either. We do get some junk from friends and cousins, but the way I handle it is when the toys get rotated, I get rid of anything DS junky, broken or inappropriate. It's worked well so far. We're trying to phase out gifts from cousins anyway - we can't afford to buy them presents and there are just too cousins to maintain that for very long.

If the "no gifts" rule doesn't work out, I especially like the "one in one out" rule, which I use with just about anything. If I want a new pair of shoes, I have to get rid of an old pair. It makes our house a lot less cluttered and I really think about what I buy.


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## elephantheart (Sep 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*

Just to clarify, it's not as if we'd be laying down a no new toys, ever, from anyone, rule. (Once in a while Ds gets his heart set on something ... just before last Christmas it was a guitar, so DH found a really neat small one. Ds still hauls that thing out to twang on daily :LOL I don't think any of the stuff he got from the ILs for Xmas was in use after January.) And he gets his allowance which he can spend almost entirely as he chooses.


Right, duh!

I have already had the "conversation" with my mother this year. It is my family that does all the "toxic gift giving" around here. My M-I-L usually gives clothes, so I'm not really picky about that. (do I see an issue coming as my girls become teenagers? sigh....)
I tried to explain to her that something with all these lights and sounds and movements is cute, but they just look at it and then they move on. I told her the things that last are the toys that engage their imagination. Things to build with, art supplies, dress up outfits (but can we move away from princess/ tea party?), etc. We always exchange gift lists on Thanksgiving. This year, instead of just springing a million suggestions and questions on my poor girls, I will be prepared. Lists of websites, educational toystores, a brochure of ideas. That's a great idea.

Another problem is that inevitably my mother throws away every receipt and I can never exchange anything. I'll have to bring that up, as well.


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Quote:



Quote:

As far as your kids are concerned... someone else mentioned this I think... if you want a new toy, you have to get rid of an old one... Otherwise there is no room.
I thought about this, and actually tried it briefly. The problem I have with it is, it reinforces the possessions-as-disposable mindset that I hate so much.










Quote:

It makes our house a lot less cluttered and I really think about what I buy.
That's another problem with this policy for children's toys. The kids don't get to decide of the new toy is worth getting, and ousting an old toy for.


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Hee hee. So many things to quote I'm typing this in Notepad & then doing a C&P









Quote:

there's a point where you can't let the toxic gift-givers keep making you have to expend your limited energy because they refuse to respect your boundaries.
EXACTLY! It *is* toxic, and I don't owe them weeks of wrangling, explaining, justifying & receiving guilt trips every holiday. I don't owe them my precious time sorting through things that THEY fill my house with and taking it to Goodwill. I mean, really, it's bad enough they fill their own house with joyless crap, I'm not going to house "their" stuff as well.

Not to mention the good-guy-bad-guy dynamic that happens every time they pull out a new,inappropriate toy and I disapprove. This is not an OK position for them to be putting me in with my child(ren).

Quote:

she had bought my infant son a giant motor-power car AND EXPECTED ME TO TAKE IT HOME
BTDT. Before last Xmas, MIL did a lot of whining & guilt tripping over how we "never" take home anything she gets ds (yeah right). We went over appropriate toys with her once AGAIN and gave a few suggestions of the things he'd enjoy. She ended up buying giant castle blocks that build a playhouse-sized castle. HELLO! We have a TINY HOUSE!! And you wonder why we don't bring your gifts home?

I hear what you say about being overwhelmed. I had the same problem as a child. It was horrible, and as a pared-down adult I can see that it was caused by a vast overabundance of things.

Quote:

I think grandparents try to live vicariously through their grand kids.








I know a lot of it, for my ILs, is their unfulfilled childhoods. But when giving becomes about your own issues, it stops being about what would make the recepient happy, kwim? I honestly don't see much thought being given to Ds' happiness ... just their own emotional urges for more, more, more. They're trying to fill a void in themselves by giving ds all this stuff.

Quote:

my kids receive piles of things that they don't really particularly like, while the one or two toys they REALLY want never materialize.








Often we'd make a specific recommendation and they'd get something vaguely related, but so far removed from the original as to be pretty much worthless, or a knockoff so cheap it broke in a day







:

Quote:

you also have to accept that they may choose to do so anyway. If they haven't responded to your requests yet, it seems unlikely that they are going to suddenly get it.
That's true. What I'm hoping is that a hardlined, "No, none, never" position will be easier to maintain than all the explaining, asking, negotiating was (which never did any good anyway







). If nothing else it'll save our energy.

Quote:

That's another problem with this policy for children's toys. The kids don't get to decide of the new toy is worth getting, and ousting an old toy for.
Yup. Sometimes if Ds wants to get something (with his money or mooching off of us :LOL) we'll discuss "exchanging" something that way, but usually it's a general talk about going through toys he doesn't need anymore. With a gift, it seems to me like a kid would be stuck: on the one hand, he might not want to give up a toy he's got already; on the other hand, here's this new toy with the gleam of novelty, and to refuse it might be seen as disappointing Nana







It seems a cruel dilemma to put a little one in.

Sigh. Another novel I see







But all the replies are wonderful food for thought! Thank you!


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## Losgann (Jun 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thoesly*
My kids have food issues, and candy can be a problem.

My ds does too. He's on the gfcf diet and can't have any dairy at all, which takes away all the soft chewy chocolatey candies.. And now since we got his teeth fixed he can't have the hard or gummy candies either.. I told DH surely the dentist didn't intend for ds to have a candy-free childhood, but DH is standing firm..
















Quote:


Originally Posted by *thoesly*
Then, they leave the rest out for the "Great Pumpkin" who steals it away in the night and replaces it with a new book for each child (we can never have too many books!)

This is an awesome idea!!! I am going to try it this Halloween! Thanks for this!!

piscean mama


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## Turtlecouple (May 11, 2004)

This is such an interesting thread. My IL's are believers is Stuff=Love. My DS is only 6 mos and we already have so much junk cluttering our tiny apt. I'm not looking forward to Christmas.

Here's a question I have, if IL's are the problem, anyone having to fight DH on "rules" on gifts? My DH thinks because it's a gift, you need to keep it. Example: The IL's gave my ds an easter basket this past easter with a bunch of stuff in it (mostly cheap stuff to seem like more stuff) one of them a 100-piece puzzle! DS WAS ONE MONTH OLD AT THE TIME!!!!!! While cleaning the house a few weeks after, I wanted to throw it away or give it to friends who have older kids, DH got mad at me. He feels that his parents picked it out so we need to keep it. So now it'll sit on our shelf for 5 YEARS until DS can play with it. I have to hold on to this p-o-s puzzle that was probably bought at the dollar store to keep the peace with DH. The IL's are pack rats and never throw anything away so DH grew up with clutter.

I know this will be an issue as DS gets older, any advice on how to get DH's support?

Niki

BTW, we have minor gift issues with my parents, but I can argue with them about it, I'm not comfortable argueing with IL's.


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## KristiMom (Jan 7, 2003)

Girlndocs-

I just found this thread.........so I just read the whole thing. I'm tellin' ya.....I understand. I have 4 kids and the grandparents do not get it no matter how nicely or meanly I tell them , set boundries or anything. I loved all the suggestions everyone gave. I finally came to accept that they will give junky stuff. But, the thing with my kids is that they play "dress up" more than anything else and really hardly play with toys at all. SO, after a coupleof weeks a toy that I hate is suddenly missing. They don't even notice it. I hide it for a few weeks, if they ask for it I get it out but never let them know I had it. Usually they don't ask for it and then I take it to the second hand store and make money from it. My SIL was talking to my MIL when my DS was opening a battery operated gift, SIL laughed and said "oh, that toy won't be here in about 2 weeks." MIL couldn't believe it and asked her why. She explained that if I don't like a toy I get rid of it. So now, MIL is much more careful about what she buys. We still get junk in but I just get rid of it. I don't wany my kids to be completely materialistic either. Hang in there!







2


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## Korwynne (Feb 18, 2004)

This year, for Lindsey's birthday we told the family (and the friends that wouldn't be offended) that we don't want any plastic or battery operated toys - with a few exceptions (the kids love their little "laptops" and dd loves my little ponies). I told them I'd be happy to come up with a list.. but wooden puzzles, books (and books on tape) and art supplies (esp. paper) would always be appreciated.. and I send out give ideas to out of state relatives around Oct (with pictures of the kids in their Halloween costumes) to help make sure we don't get things I don't approve of.

That being said, things I dont' care for either get saved for birthdays for other children (we got things like a dump truck full of sand toys that was cool, just not for us, for example) or donate them.

As to the candy.. one of DH's coworkers has a diabetic child.. he goes trick or treating and then has a treat that's okay for him once he comes home as they count out all his candy.. he "sells" it to his parents for.. a quarter a piece, I think it was? Then he gets to go to the store and spend it on something he'd like


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

We buy most of ds' Halloween candy off him, by the pound, for whatever price pick-a-mix candy sells for that year


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Oh, yeah:

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turtlecouple*
The IL's gave my ds an easter basket this past easter {...} DS WAS ONE MONTH OLD AT THE TIME!!!!!!

Dd was born March 2. Shortly before Easter the IL's asked what she would like in her Easter basket. WTF?







I really was completely baffled.

I ended up telling them she would like Godiva chocolates and a Ficcarre hair clip :LOL


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## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

Something that hit me while reading this thread... we all know this about the gift-givers' issues, right? Deprived childhood, stuff=love, whatever. Well, what obnoxious thing that people do isn't due to their issues? If I walk around punching people in the nose, it's probably due to my issues. If I go over to your house and steal all your stuff, again, probably my issues are work. But the craftiness of the toxic gift-givers is to find a socially acceptable outlet to dump their crap on me, and to make me look like the bad guy when I enforce boundaries, boundaries which hurt them NOT AT ALL. Again, I have to repeat, no one's rights are being violated by not purchasing objects for my children. I am not taking away time with a child; I am saying WE HAVE TOO MUCH STUFF.

Like I said, my 85yo grandmother gets away with a lot, but I draw the $%%$# line with anyone under that age. I wouldn't let them display their bigotry in front of my child, no matter how much they might want to. I wouldn't let them take my child to see a violent movie, no matter how happy it might make them. The fact that they enjoy doing something that makes me suffer does not mean I have to let them do it.


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

So true! Thank you for articulating it so well.


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## sandrajoon (Oct 2, 2003)

Quote:

I ended up telling them she would like Godiva chocolates and a Ficcarre hair clip








:

I've kind of done the no-gift thing with my mother, whose world view involves stuff = love, and it hasn't done much to foster her relationship with my children. Isn't that sad? I need a hug







. But we simply cannot put our limited life energy towards constant decluttering, and our home is very small, too. Maybe time will heal the deep issues and Mom will come to understand that what we really want is her real SELF, not two of every kind of thing...but thats another story.

Its a toughie. May the force be with you!


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## sweetest (May 6, 2004)

I havent had to deal with this (yet!) My family sent $ for dd's 1st bday - we said we started a college fund and thats what we needed. My mom sent clothes for daycare - no frilly dresses, but pants and t-shirts that we actually use.

_But I remember my clutter filled childhood ...._

My mom would have us clean out stuff before a gift giving event, too. But the attidute wasnt "we are taking your crappy junk to the goodwill" but rather "you are so fortunate to have what you do, lets share with other kids".

The end result was the same, but the values instilled by this attitude made all of us grow up to be civic minded. We wouldnt just drop off a bag of stuff, but we would go to the homeless shelter and play with the other kids. We would pick out things ourselves to give, not based on it being junky, but on the fact that although we liked it when we got it, we didnt use it anymore. We would talk about how the other kids would enjoy it. Although looking back on it, we didnt have much, but we were so grateful for what we had.

It is still a time sink for you to do this, but at least it is trading the stuff for a lesson in altruism.

I am so sorry you are going through this. Disrespect of your parenting on any level is so hard.


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## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

I gotta laugh at all the people who are like "I don't have to deal with this" and then offer solutions. Uh, respectfully? You have no idea. Here's some things that you're not going to be aware of if you've got one child and the crap has not started to pile up:

* there is so much more crap available now then there was when we were children, and it so much cheaper, and it is positioned differently. This all makes it more available, and specifically more available as impulse purchases. Example: in the downtown RiteAid window I passed yesterday there were three foot tall mechanical walking dolls for TWENTY BUCKS. Someone going to RiteAid to get a prescription filled is totally going to buy that doll on a whim. It's positioned FOR impulse purchase, cause nobody wakes up in the morning and says, "hmm, you know, there's a three foot tall mechanical walking doll-shaped void in my life."

Unless you only shop at the co-op, this crap is so pervasive even if you're devoted to a simple life something is going to grab you. Who hasn't been tempted by the gorilla who sings the Macarena, or a cute plushie, or any other of the myriad cheap third world labor produced crapola that is EVERYWHERE? So people who don't critique the disposal lifestyle don't even have the limited defenses that we do. They're just going "see cute thing! buy cute thing!" EVERY TIME THEY GO TO THE STORE.

* due to blended families, better healthcare and self-care, later child-bearing, and people having fewer children, on average, there are WAY more gift-giving adults per your child then you had. Within the extended family that I saw regularly, there were me, my brother, and my three cousins, and then there were our parents, our maternal grandparents, and my mother's sister. That's seven adults for five children. There were also my paternal grandparents, my father's brothers, and both parents' cousins, with whom they'd grown up, but they lived on the other side of the country and also there were lots of children on that side of the family to spread the gift-giving around.

Today, I have one son and two stepsons - three children. The adults who wish to regularly give them gifts: me and my partner; my parents; my grandmothers; my partner's mother, father, and stepmother; my parter's two siblings; my brother and my brother's girlfriend; and my mother's two sisters. That's FIFTEEN ADULTS FOR THREE CHILDREN. There are no other children for these people to give to. None of these adults belong to a subculture or subscribe to any ideals that prevent them from picking up a plushie at the Safeway on the way to visiting me, and none of them have the capability or desire, no matter how many time it is spelled out to them, to apply their not insignificant intelligence to the problem and see that it's not personal, it's simply a question of scale.

My mother's friends gave her a "grandmother shower" when I was pregnant because none of their children are having children and they are so desperate to shop for a baby. I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP.

* As for dropping stuff off at the homeless shelter, the Goodwill, or what the hell ever:

a) I live in SF and dealing with homeless people is a major part of my day whenever I leave the house, and on special occasions sometimes they come to me. I'm not spending my free time at a shelter. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

b) I don't drive which means whatever crap comes into my house is being pushed by muscle power, with 28 lbs of urklebaby on my back, half a mile to the Goodwill. This ENRAGES me.

c) finally, lots of this stuff I wouldn't give to anyone! It's CRAP, that's the whole point. Using Goodwill as a dump isn't ok - Goodwill, and homeless shelters, want good toys that can be played with.


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## sweetest (May 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urklemama*
I gotta laugh at all the people who are like "I don't have to deal with this" and then offer solutions. Uh, respectfully? You have no idea.

That would be me. Duly chastized







:

Forgive my home ownership







: and car ownership







: and general comfortableness







:


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

bfb, I think you're missing urklemama's main point, which is that if you haven't lived with these massive amounts of crap constantly coming into your life, really, you have no idea what it's like. It's way more soul-sucking than you imagine it to be, I promise you.

And once you have lived with it, you get like urklemama and me ... and just want it to stop. Diverting the flow of crap to goodwill or a dumpster, or negotiating for the crap to be of a different nature, just doesn't cut it. Really. It just has to stop.


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## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

Here, bfb, have a gorilla who sings the Macarena. It dances too!


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## bugmomma (Jul 5, 2004)

I tried doing something similar at Christmas last year. I sent this nice, friendly note saying that my children were very blessed and that we would rather spend TIME with our family and friends than everyone spending money. I thanked them for respecting our wishes and very clearly stated, 'We will not be giving OR receiving gifts'.

So Christmas comes around and all hell breaks loose. Either 'feelings are hurt' because I did this or they thought we were broke and bought us three times as many things. So I sit there feeling like a total loser because I have NO gifts for all of these people and what I wanted to be nice times with family members just felt like a big slap in the face. In-laws are STILL complaining about their feelings being hurt and we still received money orders saying 'we know you didn't want gifts so here's money'

I just didn't think it'd be that hard for people to understand that TIME means more than MONEY to us but it certainly was.

Very hard to teach my children values when stuff like this happens...

Lacey


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Would you believe this is such a problem for us, that we haven't bought our kids Christmas gifts in 5 years? Because despite my letters and lists, requests and suggestions, our kids get way too much stuff at Christmas? And ironically, even the people that have bought our kids gift certificates and memberships still have at least on gift, and some "little stuff" because the kids "need something to open" or they will feel bad?


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

I see I'm going to have to make contingency plans. (Really, it was pretty much a sure bet my ILs would pull something manipulative about this anyway).

I think one good plan is, if there are "thing" presents given to Ds at their house on Xmas day, next Xmas day we won't be coming to their house. They can come here, and I can make sure no presents make it in the door


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## mom2Avi (Dec 1, 2002)

I think this may be my first post here, as I have only lurked before, but this thread caught my eye and I wanted to add a few suggestions:

1. Does your dc or family spend much time at the in laws' house? Maybe the junk toys could live there to be played with when you visit.

2. Maybe you could ask your MIL to help you organize your dc's toys one day. Maybe actually having her participate in trying to keep up with it all would open her eyes to what you have been saying. My mom just helped me organize dd's room and pack away outgrown things and she has made a few comments since that dd doesn't need anymore xyz toys and she would like to get her ABC toy for her instead for her birthday.

3. Not sure about the age of your child, but could you find a suitable toy that can be built on at each gift giving occasion to suggest to them. I'm thinking of like a wooden train set, where the IL's could buy track or engines or whatever and you could maybe impress upon then that your child loves it and that it would be something special that they only get from grandma and grandpa?

I have found at parties that everyone (myself included) wants to give the "best" or "favorite" gift. People who aren't around kids that much seem to give flashy toys that catch the kids attention right away but are quickly forgotten. Last birthday my dd recieved a singing dancing bouncing Tigger from my FIL and a play kitchen from my parents. At the party the Tigger was the hit, but she actually plays with her kitchen. Unfortunatly, everyone sees the child get all excited over the dancing singing toy, so next time they give something similar. My best answer for those sorts of things is to tell the grandparents that they can buy it but it has to live at their house.


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## Losgann (Jun 24, 2004)

You know when grandparents or IL's or whatever give gifts, you could say "Why don't we keep this here for when dc visits? We are just so out of space at home." Let them take responsibility for their adding clutter to their own homes.

You can always 'accidentally' leave it behind, (if you visit there) or take it with you for the kids to play with and 'forget it'.

I'm very passive aggressive..;o>

piscean mama


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

I didn't see her tell anybody they didn't hae a right to offer solutions, Penelope. What she did say was this:

Quote:

You have no idea. Here's some things that *you're not going to be aware of* if you've got one child and the crap has not started to pile up:
I think she has a very valid point. I'm seeing a lot of people who have no idea of the magnitude of this situation, and while they're trying to be helpful, they're almost all underestimating what it's really like to deal with and thus, their suggestions aren't as workable as they think they are. And I read her as very direct (and frustrated), but not mean or rude.


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## mamawanabe (Nov 12, 2002)

Well, I suggested thinking of a plan B just cause I just can't see a no gifts rule working any better than the other rules (not too many gifts, not those kids of gifts), and it is going to cause a lot of drama (a lot of drama AND you'll still end up with too many crap gifts).

As a last ditch effort (before what I suspect will be the drama in vein of no gifts), I would try the trash. When he stops playing with something, throw it in the trash. No effort (mental or physical), just trash. After christmas, throw a bag of ignored, broken toys away every night till he is left with just with stuff he uses and loves.

Yes it is so very wastefull. Yes, the gifts are toxic and they really shouldn't be doing it. Yes, he getting a materialistic thrill from opening gifts (but he will learn WAY more about possesions and anti-materialism from watching you cherish time and talk and experience above stuff than from getting his ils gifts).

I just really doubt you will have much luck changing people by proclomation and/or ultimatum. You want them to not do this, but we can't control other people and we can't control the relatioship other people have with our children (as much as we want to). We can, however, control our household. The toys belong to your ds, so I am a little uncomfortable suggesting tossing them (not that I will have any problem doing it - just thinking ethically here), but if it is making you and you ds unhappy, it seems a much easier solution that trying to make other people not do something.

Good luck. I know you are frustrated.


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

My kids rarely get "new" toys on xmas and bdays so I have no problem allowing indulgeses then. I have asked for then not to be given certain things but I'm pretty easy. Also we go through their room before everybday and holiday and get rid of years past stuff so it doesn't really add to the clutter a we declutter a bit first.


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## mamasun (Apr 7, 2004)

Wow what an interesting thread.
We have no experiences to offer--as a family we started the no giving things policy this year, and will see how it goes very shortly, when the gift giving season approaches. Our family, my husband's brother's family, and the grandparents all decided to give time, or home made gifts, or baked goods rather than stuff. Hooray. But everyone was in on it, and we all agreed. Not much help for your situation.

The problem as I see it is about stuff, but also about the ILs not respecting your parenting choices. Because they are choices. And even though I happen to agree with them, there are others who don't, or won't ever, and your ILs may be in the latter group. Do they honor your choices in other things, or is it an across the board kind of disrespect?

I think many of the posts on this thread have encouraged you to compromise, or have a plan B, or avoid the issue by just tossing the stuff or giving it to some other family, because perhaps most of us end up compromising when it comes to family, esp. inlaws. But no one offered any experiences, as you asked. We will have some soon, after the holidays, and I hope they are good ones. Incidentally, we don't have much of a problem with my side of the family, but that's because we are not at all close. But that's an entirely different issue, isn't it?








Best wishes in your quest, girl in docs.


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## Korwynne (Feb 18, 2004)

I had a suggestion - would you be okay with books, or are you overflowing with those as well? What about books on tape? Would your relatives be willing to either purchase a few books or check out some from the library and read them out loud to a tape recorder so that your kids have those available for those times when you're just not wanting to read and they're begging for a story? That would be something "special" and goodness knows they could fit a heck of a lot of stories on a tape









and fyi, salvation army will come and pick stuff up.. not that it's a permanent solution, but might help you with your current "how do I get this stuff out of here" situation...


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## _betsy_ (Jun 29, 2004)

Long-time lurking, not yet a mom here...

My BIL and SIL instituted a "No toys, please" policy about 2 years ago for their two (now three) children. They give ample ideas as to what else would be appropriate (Clothes, books, games, etc.) and tell people what size the children are wearing as well as whether they need school clothes or play clothes. The toy moratorium seems to be working very well. They also "lifted" the toy ban recently (ie, they didn't ask for no toys, and gave some gift suggestions that included toys) for the two older children's birthdays this summer. Seems we adults like to buy toys, and parents might be better off letting us know that sometimes that's OK, too. There are lots of gift alternatives to toys, and some of us (over eager grandparents, batchelor uncles and childless couples, in our cases) just need some direction.

My ILs finally "got it" when BIL and SIL showed them the over-flowing, untidy and unorganized toy room, coupled with some of the larger gifts being stranded at the ILs house because BIL and SIL simply didn't have room to take the gifts home with them.

It sounds like your ILs are a different bunch, though. Reading through this thread shows me you have tried lots of different ideas and are getting frustrated about not having a good solution. I don't know how old your children are, but are they able to tell Grandma and Grandpa that they'd like to go out to a movie (Or the zoo, or the playground or Chuck E. Cheese or whatever) with them for their birthdays instead of gifts? Maybe coming from the children will help them "get" it.

Hope it's OK I offered a suggestion. I admit I haven't BTDT, but I can see and understand where you're coming from. The toy moratorium has worked for my BIL and SIL, even though I don't think any of us were as "bad" as your ILs seem to be.


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## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

Here, mamapenelope, have a Santa Claus that does the twist to "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree."


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2Avi*
a singing dancing bouncing Tigger from my FIL

Slightly







T, but my dd got one of those last holidays, and she LOVED it!!! for about three minutes. Then, the next day, when she really was NOT interested, SIL was all, "oh, but the kids on the box were having such a good time!" :LOL









I guess my point is, there's folks put there who are really susceptible to advertising...


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

I'm not in the exact same situation as you, but I sympathize, and i totally support the idea of NO STUFF. because our dd is in a daycare co-op, and once or twice a week we have 5 toddlers at my house, we have a lot of stuff, and all of it was cheap at yard sales or thrift stores. stuff is so easily available that it's fairly worthless.

I don't think that the IL's "need" to give stuff should take precedence over your needs.

have you had a discussion with your kid about all of this? maybe if there was a request from him directly the IL's might pay more attention.

I hope you find something that works.


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## monkaha (Jan 22, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *elephantheart*
I'm so glad I'm not the only one dealing with this. I am SO sick of all the crap that is brought into my home!

I have made such a point with my family, and they continue to buy total junk. It infuriates me.
I made a pretty big point about wanting my girls to grow up with fairly gender neutral toys- I want my girls to be interested in cars and airplanes just as much as ballet and dress up, you know?











I totally agree with this. We've been lucky so far (knock on wood) and haven't gotten any barbies or makeup, but that is due in large part to my repeating over and over how much I hate them. I'm really worried now that I have a son, that we'll be getting lots of army men, guns, and other "manly" toys, and I hate those just as much. We also tend to get a lot of dollar store junk for gifts around here.

One thing that helped, for a while at least, was to have a yard sale and make sure the junk-giver shows up and sees that you are selling all of it. My MIL went around at our last sale saying "didn't I give you this? didn't I give you this too?" I did feel a little guilty, but DH was just as eager to get rid of it all. The stuff is starting to roll in again though, so it's time for another one.

I really like the "one in, one out" rule. How young were your DC when you started that? How early can they understand?

Another thing that sometimes works is to go somewhere and put on layaway a bunch of stuff that your kid(s) really need, then let everyone know that they are more than welcome to help pay it down. This is how we got our last carseat, and I'm planning on doing that for the next one!

Good luck to all!


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## therdogg (Jun 8, 2004)

Oh, my. Why oh why does nobody understand that it is always and everywhere rude to direct the generosity of others? No matter how offensive to your delicate, more enlightened sensibilities it is snobby and rude to "lay down the rules" about what is and is not allowed. To do so misses the entire point of gift-giving.

Graciously accepting gifts, saying "thank-you" and then finding that they disappear mysteriously soon after their arrival is the polite, high ground.

Honestly, it sounds like some of you just want the goods- you sound like spoiled brats whining that what you get isn't "good enough."

What's more important, your relationships or your own feelings of being of being "respected" by being given the gifts you so rudely demand?


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Um, have you even read the thread?

No, I don't want the goods. I want the goods to stop coming.


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## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

The problem with that model, therdogg - which btw is one I really, really wish I could use, because it's much more ladylike and gracious than negotiating who give what every freaking holiday - is that it comes from a world of relative material scarcity and a world where people had more children per gift-giving adult. The sheer quantity of stuff that would come into my house if I didn't direct and stem the tide is something I really, really, truly could not deal with. I have five people stuffed into a small urban apartment. There is literally noplace for it to go.

Let me give an idea of the volume of the problem: there was too much packaging last Christmas to fit in my trash can MORE THAN ONE WEEK IN A ROW. That's AFTER the recyclables have been sorted out. There's a lot, a whole lot that I'm willing to do for family harmony but paying more than $50 for extra trash pickup goes further than I am willing to go.


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## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

Here's another incident to give you a sense of the volume of the problem. Last Easter I had a dozen people for dinner. Every single one stopped at See's and got Easter baskets for both my stepsons. TWENTY FOUR EASTER BASKETS.

There does come a point where what appears to be well-meaning generosity is outbalanced by what is actually thoughtlessness. All of these people are related to each other. Most of them talk to each other regularly. They are perfectly capable of thinking hmm, I bet so-and-so is going to get a basket or candy or something... let's communicate with each other and make sure that the urklehouse doesn't drown in candy.

Moreover, the fact that every single one of these people bought a identical soulless plastic-wrapped basket and none of them even thought about getting something meaningful, or that took any time or effort AT ALL says volumes to me. And Volume I is entitled "This Isn't About the Children," and Volume II is entitled, "This Is About Making Sure That I Win the Stuff-is-Love Contest."

To put the cherry on the cake, every single one had been informed either directly by me or indirectly through my mother that my stepsons would be with their mother. But keeping that information in their heads was too difficult. And every single one of them threw a little mini tantrum about not being able to give the candy.


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## thistle (Aug 10, 2002)

My SIL likes to give the opposite of what I say. I ranted against The Gap, so dd got a box of Gap clothes. I mentioned that we were overrun with stuffed animals so dd got SIX for her birthday. One was 3 feet tall!! (WHich of course dd LOVEDDDDD!!!!). Well the 3 foot tall pink bunny stayed but the rest went.

I have as much problem with dh! He doesn't think you should get rid of anything that was a gift









I took tons of dd's toys and put them in the garage. They are in open boxes, so she can see them and retrieve the stuff she wants. The huge majority is still in the garage. If I get around to having a yard sale they will go there, otherwise, it is off to the thrift store!!

thistle


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## elephantheart (Sep 2, 2004)

What is up with that?
My sister does the SAME thing. She does exactly what I ask everyone not to do.
I let my older daughters spend the night with her the other night. They always do nails and girly stuff over there, which I don't mind, but my one rule was no dark nail polish. Pale pink, white, clear, something not too noticable on small preschool hands. They come home with siren red nails. And she knew we were having to leave immediately for a church get-together when she brought my girls home. I wanted to spit nails!
She does exactly the same thing with gifts. IT drives me nuts!


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## mamasun (Apr 7, 2004)

therdogg, how I agree with you in theory. But in life, why should one have to choose between being nice and having your wishes and feelings respected? The culture of gift giving has changed such that sometimes one DOES have to make a choice, and what's wrong with choosing to protect your children and yourself over being polite? If the gift givers were following the politeness construct, then perhaps they would pick up the message that families can feel overwhelmed by their "generosity" and back off. But they are oblivious, which forces us into this unfortunate choice--being polite, or being honest?

There is no air up on the moral and polite high ground. I breathe better down here!


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## chalupamom (Apr 15, 2002)

My mother-in-law gave my son a four foot stuffed bugs bunny the day he was born. On his Christening she gave him a three foot stuffed duck. For his first Christmas (all of three months old) she gave him a four foot stuffed dog puppet. Every time she saw him for his first four months she arrived with a stuffed animal. The big ones were for holidays. In four months of life she gave him over 25 stuffed creatures.

Sometime after his fifth month, I mentioned to her how her generosity was so pleasing and kind - how heartwarming it was to have watched her pleasure in her grandson. But. We simply didn't have the room to accommodate anymore stuffed animals, although if she received great happiness from buying them she should continue to do so and we would donate them to the local childrens' hospital.

"Don't you have a basement," she asked. Yeah, why?

"Because couldn't you just keep them there instead of giving them away?"

Astonishing. She'd rather have them moldering in our basement than making kids happy. Better to have them in our house but out of sight than being used and loved.

My son is now almost four and things haven't improved in this regard. I've learned to just spirit things away after she's gone. She gifts about a year and a half below his age so he doesn't play with the stuff and doesn't miss it once it disappears. Sad that it's come to this, though.

For our daughter's recent Christening, she asked me which I'd prefer: a three foot "dancing" princess doll or a three foot "pal" minnie that talks. I told her that the baby could really use a savings bond, which would be cheaper than either of these, but infinitely more useful. What I got was a load of crap for "asking for money" and a three foot princess doll (promptly put away to save for Toys for Tots - wait, that would make it some other mom's problem).


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## matts_mamamama (Mar 19, 2004)

Honestly? I think if you want to say NO Gifts, then you have to mean NO gifts. None. Zero. Zilch. In theory, it's great to ask for experiences and gifts of time and love, but it sounds like the people you are dealing with are going to ignore it anyway and the only way out of it is to truly say no gifts of any kind.

That said, I wouldn't personally do that to my son or my parents/family. Perhaps some of the things they buy are junk or hokey, but the joy they get by giving to him is more than worth the time it takes me to give it away. And when they ask, I simply tell them we rotate his toys and they item in question must be in the put away rotation. But honestly, they rarely ask.

Along the same lines, my dad and stepmom repeatedly asked what I wanted for my son for his baptism. I repeatedly said there was no need, but if they insisted, I would love for him to have a really nice Bible, personalized if they so desired. Easy, right? Nope. They got him a cross. Beautiful gesture, but my son's Godparents got him one, and knowing full well there would be an issue if we showed up at church with theirs instead, I had to tell them. I even told them I would love to keep it, but they insisted on taking it back. So, did they get him the Bible I asked for? NOPE. A silver gift set (spoon, fork, cup and tiny picture frame). Nice idea, but totally useless. So, in my family it doesn't matter either. They do what they want, and would even if I put it on a billboard in their front yard. So, we smile, say thank you and do what we need to do once they leave.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamasun*
But in life, why should one have to choose between being nice and having your wishes and feelings respected?

There is no way to _choose_ having your wishes respected. That respect is either given or not.

When it isn't, you can choose how to respond, but you can't make other people's choices for them.

Me, I'd turn a frustrating situation into an opportunity to give to shelters/charities etc. Yes, its work and possibly a PITA. Yes, it would be better if the gifts didn't come in the first place. Reality is, they do.







I'd rather choose peace of mind and foster my sense of generosity. That's a good lesson to teach a kid imo.


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Quote:

but the joy they get by giving to him is more than worth the time it takes me to give it away.
For my FIL, and my mother, it frequently isn't joy- it's obligation. They feel that it is "what grandparents do", and the kids should be grateful to be "spoiled" by their grandparents.


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

ok, I want to check on something here.

for me, it works just fine to toss the stuff I don't like, or donate it or whatever. My dd is not yet 2 and only starting to get attached to things, so if something disappears before she forms an attachment to it, no problem.

However, if your kid is 4, or 7, or whatever, and the gifts are given directly to him/her, how then can you just move 'em on out? It seems like your options change once your kid is old enough to be aware of the gifts. And if I recall correctly, when you're a kid it's not so easy to give stuff up. Even if it's making your life frustrating.

So, if that is true, then I think trying to deal with the source makes sense.

In my opinion, you have the right to ask for no gifts; you have the right to ask for your wishes and guidelines to be respected. I highly doubt that relatives who ignore such requests are in all other ways respectful, and if they are making your life difficult, you are perfectly entitled to do what you need to do about it.

My situation is one of those where some of the toys are annoying, but we're not being overwhelmed, so I can take the easy path. But some of what you poor mommas are talking about, with the deluges of crappy stuff, well, you have my sympathy and solidarity. do what you need to do.


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## insahmniak (Aug 16, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamasun*
therdogg, how I agree with you in theory. But in life, why should one have to choose between being nice and having your wishes and feelings respected? The culture of gift giving has changed such that sometimes one DOES have to make a choice, and what's wrong with choosing to protect your children and yourself over being polite? If the gift givers were following the politeness construct, then perhaps they would pick up the message that families can feel overwhelmed by their "generosity" and back off. But they are oblivious, which forces us into this unfortunate choice--being polite, or being honest?

There is no air up on the moral and polite high ground. I breathe better down here!

Oh, So Well Put!

We do have a "no gifts" policy, with one exception. We make an exception with gifts of experience or one's own hand (cards, drawings, paintings, blindfold me and feed me ice cream, etc). Everyone knows our wishes. THEY can choose to respect them or not. And since we have been clear about our wishes, if they aren't respected we have absolutely know problems doing anything we darned well want with the junk.

Things=stuff is a copout. Bottom line: that's not a meaningful way to connect with people, children, pets...

They keep trying, dear souls, to push junk and The Junkie Way onto us and our daughter. We just stay firm and cool about it and are confident that we are doing the right thing.

I think this comes down to people not getting the whole idea of what it means to give. (Oh, I just LOVE this! I gotta get this for EVERYONE I KNOW and I JUST KNOW THEY"LL LOVE IT TOO!) That's why for our birthdays, we make lists of people who have been important in our lives and try to do/make something special for them. It's reverse gifting, and I think it's a great practice. Try it: on your birthday, think of all the people you really love and do something for them -- something THEY would appreciate. Betcha have a better birthday!

Oh, and for folks who have traditional birthdays where everyone gives the star something, we do come up with creative ideas for helping that person celebrate. And guess what, everyone always LOVES what we come up with and eagerly anticipates our participation at these parties. Live your conscience. It's beneficial for everyone.


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## chalupamom (Apr 15, 2002)

sadie_sabot said:


> However, if your kid is 4, or 7, or whatever, and the gifts are given directly to him/her, how then can you just move 'em on out? It seems like your options change once your kid is old enough to be aware of the gifts. And if I recall correctly, when you're a kid it's not so easy to give stuff up. Even if it's making your life frustrating.
> 
> 
> > With my 4-ish year old we've been lucky so far. He's sees us donate stuff to various places all the time, do lots of shopping for ToyLift and AfghanSchools and things like that so he knows that sometimes we give nice and useful things to "the kids". He will occasionally come to us and offer to give something, which is nice. We've also been able to let him play with some random toy for a couple days and then ask him, once he loses interest in it (which is inevitable if it's not a train, lego, block or "dramatic play" item) the glow wears off and he's fine with donating it. Our mileage may vary as we move along, though.


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## Faith (Nov 14, 2002)

Okay, I haven't read all five pages! But we generally have a no gifts rule that most people follow. And for those that don't, we have a strict "no plastic, no batteries, no commercialism, etc" rule for them. Most clothes and books and art supplies are fine, so it's not like it's too hard to follow.

But, just like my DC, if certain relatives can't follow my house rules, I will "help" them to do so. My DC have never had a problem giving anything up. Usually they get so much stuff at once on their birthday or whatever, they think it's just part of the fun to pack up the undesire-ables for Good Will after the excitement is over and people are gone.

I *really* cannot stand crap and would go crazy otherwise. I just don't want my DC brought up like that.


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## dawnk (Jul 1, 2004)

Wow, this hits close to home! We just talked with the in-laws about this very topic. They totally agreed, birthdays and Christmas is for kids, got them into thinking good gifts would be stuff like movie tickets, theatre tickets, gift certs for restaurants, trips to the museum, puppet shows. Then, my fil (62 years old) starts whining about how we instituted the "no gifts" policy right before his birthday. So mil felt all guilty and decided to run out and get his this huge multi gadget b-b-q grill set for the house up north. Which by the way, has to have as many convenience gadgets and toys as does their permanent residence. Then it was my son's 2nd birthday the next day. They got him about 6 fall outfits, which was good, and this stupid stupid little truck that he never once played with (too interested in the wooden train) just because he HAS to have a toy on his b-day. He's 2!!! I should have left it at the park! So we will see what happens for my oldest's 6th birthday in December. I will heavily suggest specific toys that he has interest in, as well as what I mentioned already (tickets and such). I doubt it will happen. The funny part is that they agreed in the first place!!


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

Well I guess I am with the minority here.
I would not risk conflict in my family, nor would I take it upon myself to lay down "rules" for anyone by myself and my child.
Nor will I insult people who are giving out of love, even if I do not like the gift.

We simply say thank you...
and after a few days it gets donated to my church or a shelter. DS has no problem with that.. he doesn't even notice.
When he is older, I will explain about giving to those who have less.. and encourage him to take part in the process.
I look at it as an opportunity to TEACH him, while upholding my views on appropriate toys in my house.

I don't need to get in anyone else's face about their gifts. What does that serve?
It just isn't that hard to put the stuff in a box and take it to the shelter.

I honestly don't understand the need to draw a line in the sand over this issue.


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
Well I guess I am with the minority here.
I would not risk conflict in my family, nor would I take it upon myself to lay down "rules" for anyone by myself and my child.
Nor will I insult people who are giving out of love, even if I do not like the gift.

We simply say thank you...
and after a few days it gets donated to my church or a shelter. DS has no problem with that.. he doesn't even notice.
When he is older, I will explain about giving to those who have less.. and encourage him to take part in the process.
I look at it as an opportunity to TEACH him, while upholding my views on appropriate toys in my house.

I don't need to get in anyone else's face about their gifts. What does that serve?
It just isn't that hard to put the stuff in a box and take it to the shelter.

I honestly don't understand the need to draw a line in the sand over this issue.

I totally and completely agree! We give away tons of stuff that we get. I have even talked to kids about the 'crummy" gifts and how to say "Thank you so much" and then just hand it unopened to mama saying "Its so awesome but I really want to save it (like in save it from breaking )"

It then goes directly to the Food pantry beleive it or not. They tell us they love being able to throw in a little toy or stuffed animal to a family's bag.


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## Turtlecouple (May 11, 2004)

I've been following this thread because it's a problem that we are dealing with. I believe (if I can remember correctly) the OP started this thread not so much about the kinds of gifts, just the volume of gifts.

DS is only 6 mos so this will be the first Christmas for him. I'm very afraid!







Last Christmas, DH's two nieces recieved 14, count them, 14 dolls from my IL's. And those were NOT all they bought for them. I feel the my IL's truly believe that more presents = more love.

Quote:

It just isn't that hard to put the stuff in a box and take it to the shelter.
It is when DH feels that it's totally offensive to get rid of a gift, even for donation. He feels that when someone buy you a gift, they chose that gift for you and it's wrong not to keep it. He feels it's ungrateful. So I sit in a tiny apt. full of clutter because I'd rather keep the peace with DH.









Niki


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Turtlecouple*

It is when DH feels that it's totally offensive to get rid of a gift, even for donation. He feels that when someone buy you a gift, they chose that gift for you and it's wrong not to keep it. He feels it's ungrateful. So I sit in a tiny apt. full of clutter because I'd rather keep the peace with DH.









Niki

Maybe you should tell DH that there's not ennough room for both him and the stuff so....


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## IdentityCrisisMama (May 12, 2003)

I think there are two was of looking at this. One is that it's difficult to strike a balance between 'dictating' giving and normal communication about gifts. The other is the implications of not communicating to your loved ones that their gifts are not appreciated or are not kept or are cluttering and stressing your life and who that is received in your family.

I know that, for most of our family, it's most appreciated that we love and cherish their gifts ~ so a discussion about what we want or need is always appreciated. But, I do take into consideration what I think people would want to give. So, I ask my librarian MIL for books, money - from my father who hates to shop, clothes - from my SIL who clothes shops for a hobby...and etc.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

I was thinking about this thread last night..
and I can't help wondering if, for some people, the issue isn't really about the gifts.. or the junk.. as much as it is about power and control.

It seems like the real issue for some people is family members "not respecting" their parenting choices. And they think they can force "respect" by laying down rules. But I personally think that is a losing endeavour.

First.. you can't force respect. If people aren't respecting you.. no amount of rules will make them do so. So by implementing these rules, what you are doing is asserting control. And since you are dealing with people who don't respect you.. they are likely going to continue to push.

So now you have a power struggle. And unless you are going to deny these people.. your RELATIVES... access to your child over the issue... you really have no power to enforce the rule, other than to continually complain.

So it just seems to me to be a useless proposition.

If you are dealing with people who DO respect you.. it isn't a problem. You can tell them what you do and don't want.. they will get it and respect it. No issue.

It is only an issue with people who DON'T respect your wishes for one reason or another.. and then it becomes a power struggle that is about the RELATIONSHIP more than the JUNK.

I believe in picking my battles carefully. Junk gifts are easily disposed of (barring obstinate dh's.) Not worth setting up that dynamic of further conflict with people who are already a problem.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

Asherah -


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## farmer mama (Mar 9, 2004)

Asherah- great point that no amount of rules will make someone respect you. So what are your choices? Limiting contact or just accept gifts and then throw them away? That is tough. Do any of you that throw or give away "junk toys" have relatives that have problems with that? In my family, throwing or giving away gifts would cause far greater relationship conflicts than limiting gifts in the first place (although I have given gifts back or donate items that we felt were inapportpriate). Also, I don't feel comfortable being less than honest about where the gifts went. My mom will ask my kids where certain toys are, so there is no getting around that. Of course there is always room for flexibility; last holiday season was my FIL's last. He was dying of cancer and wanted to give the kids something really special. Our request of one small gift or books and art supplies didn't do it for him, and he gave ds a big dump truck and dd a huge dollhouse, but both were not plastic so he wanted to fit with our toy philosophy. Of course we accepted them graciously even though we don't have much room and I wouldn't have chosen those gifts. Does anyone else limit toys because they believe their are negative effects from too many or the wrong kind of toys? I want my children's toys to be things of beauty and craftmanship, to be able to last a lifetime with proper care, to nourish their imaginations and souls. I believe that too many toys can make it so kids don't appreciate the ones they have, or get bored and overwhelmed and not play with the majority of them. I feel that poorly-made, breakable, plastic toys do not teach kids how to care for their things, and foster a "disposable" mentality. To me avoiding these negative effects is far more important than someone's right to give whatever or however much they want. To me it is about communicating openly and honestly, and above all protecting and nuturing my children.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

I totally agree.

And we tell family members what we would like.. without giving them any big lectures.. and they generally listen and give appropriate gifts.

We give away the ones we don't like/need.. and so far, no one has ever asked anything about them. Kids DO outgrow toys.. toys break.. there are plenty of plausible reasons for a toy to disappear.

The issue HERE seems to be relatives who do NOT listen.
And my point is that I do not see how implementing "rules" is going to help in that situation.

I will say this thread has inspired me to to a toy cleaning/run to the thrift store.


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## thistle (Aug 10, 2002)

In my case I wasn't attempting to limit or control gifts. (Much as I would like to) It was a normal conversation with my SIL and I mentioned that I hated THe Gap. I didn't say "Please don't buy dd Gap stuff" I just ranted against it. A few weeks later a box of Gap clothes shows up.

With the stuffed animals again, it was a regular conversation. She was asking about how we had DD's room decorated, etc in our new house. I said that we had blah blah, but we were still overrun with stuffed animals and I was going to have to do something. Thne for dd's birthday she sent 6 including the giant 3' bunny.

Maybe I should tell her we really DON'T NEED a 19" LCD Flatscreen monitor- LOL

thistle


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## maya44 (Aug 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *farmer mama [B*
I want my children's toys to be things of beauty and craftmanship, to be able to last a lifetime with proper care, to nourish their imaginations and souls[/B].

\

I used to think like that until I realized that sometimes my kids had the best experiences with things I considered junky ugly plasticky toys.

For example, when DD1 was about 2 someone gave her these "stupid little plastic figures" I guess they were supposed to be princesses, but you couldn't even see their faces. UGH, I thought! But ya know what, she loved those stupid little figures. She talked to them and had them interact with each other and made up elaborate stories about them and acted them out as she got older about them. Their stupid little crowns broke off, but she did not care. She had more fun playing with these plastic figues than the "beautifully crafted" wood blocks that I thought would be soooo versatile.

Another time we were at a steet fair and some radio station was giving away these really gaudy plastic guitars. Crummily made, yucky, you could not even play them. How about the wonderful little wooden zither my BIL made for her instead??? NOPE. My 2 older dd's spent hours playing with those ugly "useless" guitars. They pretended to be rock stars. They wrote songs and peformed them. They led sing alongs with their baby sister using them.

My philsophy "the beauty of a toy is in the eye of the child holding it!"


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## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

Asherah, I guess you missed the part where I said it yes, it is a big deal to store the stuff and take it to the shelter or Goodwill. I guess you missed the part where I said it over, and over, and over.

Let me spell it out again, cause I love repeating myself. I live in a small urban apartment. We have no garage. We have very limited storage space. Urklepapa will not put it in the trunk of his car. There is LITERALLY no room for any thing more. So on the big gift-giving occasions, we are LITERALLY tripping over the stuff until I can get to the Goodwill. Literally! It's in the hall or on the floor! And while it's not up the hill in the snow both ways to Goodwill, it is a nasty walk, or it's hauling all that crap on the bus, with urklebaby on my back. And it's a halfhour that honestly I could use elsewhere. I don't really care if you or anyone else thinks "oh, just a walk, just a half hour." I am scheduled to the freaking minute and it is TOTALLY INFURIATING to have to deal with another chore. My body is already worn to shreds with how physically demanding my life is and this is ANOTHER stress on it.

You are absolutely right that it is about control. I never understand why that's supposed to be either insightful or insulting. As a parent of small children, control over my time and my living space is something I give up a lot of to their needs. The needs of adults to buy and give crap isn't a need I have to respect.


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## frand (May 8, 2004)

I have to ask the OP -- does your child enjoy the junky gifts? Lots of people buy my daughter gifts I would never buy her. Yes she has been given things I don't approve of and they eventually disappear but I would not interfer with her relationship with that person by dictating what they should buy, or not buy. What exactly is accomplished by telling someone they are not allowed to buy your child a gift? That feels like a very unnatural interference and rigidity.

My daughter has one grandparent. I would give anything for any of the other three to be alive to give her a crummy present, not for the 'thing' but because of the relationship that would be behind it.


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Frand, I guess you missed the part where I said that these things are enjoyed for about 15 minutes, then broken or ignored, and become a huge pulsating life-sucking mass of JUNK that my poor son has to try and live around, play around, clean his room around.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*
unappreciated toys


Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*
they give all this stuff thinking it'll make Ds happy, but it ends up making us all miserable


Quote:


Originally Posted by *girlndocs*
sets poor Ds up for failure as far as keeping an orderly environment & makes it hard for him to find the things he really enjoys playing with

I still find it interesting that the people who are critical of this measure (that I'm taking because it's necessary to ensure some serenity for my family) are all people who by their own words do NOT have problems with their own families' gift-giving.


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## girlndocs (Mar 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sadie_sabot*
However, if your kid is 4, or 7, or whatever, and the gifts are given directly to him/her, how then can you just move 'em on out? It seems like your options change once your kid is old enough to be aware of the gifts. And if I recall correctly, when you're a kid it's not so easy to give stuff up. Even if it's making your life frustrating.

So, if that is true, then I think trying to deal with the source makes sense.

Hey, Sadie, this is exactly the train of thought that led me to where I am now. Not only does Ds not seem to be capable of connecting "Oo! Shiny new present!" with "[email protected]! I can't walk in my room or find my toys!" he also has a Nana who's not above a little guilt-tripping, and I think he already has problems expressing how he really feels about the things he gets without worrying about offending her. (An example would be that although he often picks out pink/purple/"girly" things if *we* give him the choice, without exception he'll pick the item he knws Nana finds acceptable when *she* gives him a "choice".)

No, I don't think my 5-year-old should have to deal with the excitement of getting something (especially when my IL's hype it up so much it's like the Second Coming) and then giving it away. So I'm dealing with it at the source -- excellent way of putting it!

And the solidarity is much appreciated







:


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## matts_mamamama (Mar 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urklemama*
Asherah, I guess you missed the part where I said it yes, it is a big deal to store the stuff and take it to the shelter or Goodwill. I guess you missed the part where I said it over, and over, and over.

Let me spell it out again, cause I love repeating myself.









Seems like you already know what YOU need to do...tell everyone NO GIFTS WHATSOEVER and then you have the control, you don't have to deal with Goodwill and whatnot, and then there should be no issue.

I guess I'm missing the point here - if you mamas don't want your families to get your kids things that you specifically haven't approved of, then just be honest with them, tell them not to get your kids anything at all, decline gifts when given, etc. If you can't do that, then the alternatives are as have been discussed (give them away, store them, etc).. For some families, this will cause a rift, for others it won't be an issue. You know your own families better than anyone else. If it's an issue with ILs, perhaps dh can help.

And really, I never said I don't have issues with gifts that have been given, I just choose to do what I need to do - give away or return - and not make an issue out of it with my family; there are bigger things in our lives to deal with and toys just don't make the list.


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## therdogg (Jun 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *asherah*
Well I guess I am with the minority here.
I would not risk conflict in my family, nor would I take it upon myself to lay down "rules" for anyone by myself and my child.
Nor will I insult people who are giving out of love, even if I do not like the gift.

We simply say thank you...
and after a few days it gets donated to my church or a shelter. DS has no problem with that.. he doesn't even notice.
When he is older, I will explain about giving to those who have less.. and encourage him to take part in the process.
I look at it as an opportunity to TEACH him, while upholding my views on appropriate toys in my house.

I don't need to get in anyone else's face about their gifts. What does that serve?
It just isn't that hard to put the stuff in a box and take it to the shelter.

I honestly don't understand the need to draw a line in the sand over this issue.

I couldn't agree with you more


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## Celtain (Mar 10, 2004)

I would love to do this. My IL's have been overloading us with pure crap since the first time they layed eyes on ds. I would love to implement a no gift rule, but as pp's have said they equate stuff with love, they did it with their own boys and now they are doing it with my kids. My MIL also equates love with cramming as much sugar into them as possible. Another topic for another day!!


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## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

Well girlindocs, at least we understand each other

I think there's been some other mamas in the same boat actually. I'm going to start another thread.


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

Just found out what my brother got my kids for Christmas.

Why did my 3 yo need the 100 car "matchbox" set? (Which, incidentally, he loves, and will be near next to impossible to pry from his hands?)
Or the foam mat set that my brother described as over 12" high, and between 2 and 3 feet long when in its storage bag?

And each kid will be getting OTHER gifts, besides these gifts, AND I have two other children that my brother will be buying for. Plus my kids will be getting gifts from other people.

I am just dreading Christmas now!

What should I do? Demand he take the stuff back now, or let him give it to my kids, and try to deal with it then?


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## frand (May 8, 2004)

All I really care about in my family is that people love my child. I don't think people giving a gift to my child, whatever it is, is a problem. It is as simple as throwing it out if it's that bad. I think having a child with autism is a problem. I think having a relative who is mean to my child is a problem. I think having no job is a problem. But not liking the gift someone gives my child is not a problem. This thread has struck me as really petty in spots.


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## matts_mamamama (Mar 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Breathless Wonder*
Why did my 3 yo need the 100 car "matchbox" set? (Which, incidentally, he loves, and will be near next to impossible to pry from his hands?)

Um, I think you answered your own question - your brother is getting him a gift that he knows he will love and is excited to get for him...

If you really feel you have to DO something, tell your brother to take it back and get him something smaller; don't wait til your son opens it and then try to take away something he loves. Good luck


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## farmer mama (Mar 9, 2004)

I know it has all been said before, but I think there are two issues here. It sounds to me that girlndoc's real "problem" is that others are not respecting the boundries that she has tried to lay out. The real issue isn't the gifts, but not respecting her wishes regarding gift giving. The other issue that comes up is people giving inappropriate or too many gifts, and I don't feel comfortable dismissing it as petty. Many of the topics here on MDC are about the little details that have small effects in our kid's lives. Like is it really a big deal what we call our kids genitals,whether we say "good job" or dress them in character clothes compared to dealing with special needs or unhealthy relationships? But here we discuss these things to death because a lot of us want to be making the best decisions for our kids even with the smaller issues, especially because the smaller issues can be less cut and dry. I can easily tell what relationships are toxic, but it may be harder to tell what toys or phrases may be toxic as well. I know it has been said before, but many on us feel uncomfortable with the disposable mentality that comes with constantly getting things and getting rid of them. Many of us also feel that the toys our kids play with have an influence on their play and development, so we choose our kids' playthings very carefully. This is important to me; not as important as my children's relationship with our extended family, but it is a factor. If family members can't respect the boundries that we lay about what can and can't be introduced in our kids' lives, than there are bigger issues that need to be addressed, and maybe limiting or completely cutting off gift giving will actually bring these issues out in the open and hopefully towards some sort of resolution.


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## sadie_sabot (Dec 17, 2002)

well said, farmer mama.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

Well, Urklemama.. I don't understand your hostility.
I wasn't talking to YOU, just generally stating my opinion.
Since you have decided to address ME in such a nasty way, however.. I will talk to YOU specifically.

I can see that you and your husband have chosen to make donating things very difficult. And I do emphasize CHOSEN, as for whatever reason, your dh will not put it in the trunk of his car.
I also live in a small, urban apartment with no garage and limited storage space. I also can't have piles of junk. I also don't want tons of toys. Yet somehow, I manage to deal with the issue without making it a power struggle with others.
My DH does not refuse to carry things in his trunk, so we have no problems making donations.

As for the part about "control".. I was not trying to be insulting. I was trying to point out the dynamic that can arise over this issue.. for those who might find pondering it worthwhile.
I was not singling you out, and I now understand that YOU PERSONALLY have no need to think about the control issue.
So don't.
And please feel free not to read my posts.
As I said, until this one, they were not directed at you.
I was simply participating in a discussion, which I believe I am fully entitled to do.


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## frand (May 8, 2004)

I love MDC when questions of substance come up, discussed to death or not. But not liking the presents people give your child is not a problem of substance, ESPECIALLY when a nasty tone toward the gift givers starts to take over. Then you are talking about trying to impose your beliefs in life on others and that's where things become polarized (my way is right!) and relationships can't be maintained. For the sake of allowing your child to develop their own sovereign relationships with people who love them, accept that not everyone is going to understand your beliefs, accept gifts graciously and do with them what you will after.

When my daughter was born I cannot tell you how many frilly pink things I was given, and I boxed them up and gave them to a children's charity because NO WAY was I going to dress my daughter in such a cliche. Well, guess who began fixating on pink feminine clothes at the age of 3? It's HER choice, and it's harmless. She enjoys them. I learned to get my need to have it 'my way' out of the equation.


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## farmer mama (Mar 9, 2004)

Well, I hear what you are saying but I don't think we are going to see eye to eye on this one. I still think that for me the "things" that come into my kids' lives and how they are disposed of are parenting issues worth consideration. It is not so much not liking the gifts given, but that the gifts given and the quantity are in direct conflict with my parenting values. I actually do impose my beliefs on how my kids should be treated to people who are close to them (grandparents); for example, I request they don't give them sugar, don't have the TV on around them (especially TV news or violent movies), to discipline the way we do (instead of saying "No!", to have them explain or redirect), and I do make requests about what gifts are appropriate (no plastic, open-ended, etc). Fortunately we have good communication and they understand my reasoning behind these requests, so it has never been an issue. But I am defending the right for other mamas to set further limits if their requests are not honored. Again I maintain that if these boundries are not respected it is an indicator of a much deeper issue in the relationship that needs to be addressed. It is not so much that "My way is right!" as it is "This way is right for my children". I think that our kids will be way freer to develop sovereign relationships if as parents we know that we can trust the person forming that relationship. To me not respecting boundries that are important to someone else seriously impedes trust.


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## Changed (Mar 14, 2004)

I have a question. If you make a "no gifts" or "no toys" rule, does that just hold firm for the crappy dollar store toys you don't appreciate anyway or the beautiful and expensive wooden learning toys and playsilks that you approve of?

No one loves cheap crap. It's a gift and whatever happened to "it's the thought that counts"? It's still thoughtful if it's crap and it's still thoughtful if you don't appreciate it. It's also still special (even if momentarily) to the child. If someone is giving you crappy gifts it's within your rights to reject it. I just don't get it. I hear people all the time talking about validating children as people with choices yada yada. But it's fine to reject a gift for them without caring how they feel about it.

I *DO* understand why a parent would want to make a rule like this. We have more toys that Geoffrey and I'm not looking forward to any more. But, they're not for me.


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## frand (May 8, 2004)

I knew someone would equate my point with 'well, I don't allow people to feed my children etc." It's not that -- I am talking about harmless occasional gift giving. And I just thought of probably the best example possible -- when my daughter was around 2, I bought her a lovely, expensive cloth Waldorf-type doll -- soft natural fibers, lovely clothes, so tactile and sweet. I loved holding it. She had zippo interest in it. That doll sat untouched for two years until I finally gave it away.

What she adored was the gaudy $10 realistic plastic baby dolls my MIL bought her. I suppose I could have tried to explain to my MIL that we don't believe in plastic toys, that they are bad for the environment, that they might possibly have chemicals in them that are harmful, etc. But what stopped me was the sheer lovliness of watching my daughter hold those babies and sing to them and bathe them in a way that the Waldorf doll never inspired.

My point is, if you set too many rule for people in how they are 'allowed' to express their love toward your child, they may pull back, and it's your child who loses. Again, this is really a pick your battles wisely arena. And what prompted me to post my original comment was the hostility that was being expressed toward the gift-givers, i.e, 'the crap my MIL buys..."

I've been there, and I've been humbled.


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## farmer mama (Mar 9, 2004)

MHL- I'm not sure if you are asking me, but I will try to answer. Seeing how I don't have a no gift rule I am not sure what I would do, but I would assume "no gifts" means no gifts, wooden or otherwise. We have a "one gift" suggestion, so that means that we don't want five beautiful things from the waldorf catalogs, no matter how nice they are. I think having too many "nice" toys is just as bad as having too many "junk" toys, because I think it leads to the kids and moms feeling overwhelmed, and they don't appreciate what they have.

I agree with you that it is the thought that counts, and I really do take this into consideration. This is why we do the one gift thing with flexiblity so that my kids can genuinely appreciate the thought that went into choosing the gift. I have seen so many holidays in which the kids just blast through the presents in a manic frenzy that leaves the kids unsatisfied and the adults frazzled. I way prefer the joy is my kids' eyes as they unwrap a few carefully chosen or made presents.

As far as validating kid's choices, if we set limits so that all the gifts they get are acceptable, then they can choose to play with whatever gifts they want. I think it is like having healthy choices in the home for food, they can choose what they want because all the choices are okay. I think it actually a lot less respectful to kids to let them have gifts and then get rid of them than to limit what they are given in the first place. The OP limits were not respected so she has to put a halt on the gift giving.

Frand- I think that we are in disagreement because I don't view it has harmless gift giving. I view my kids' surroundings as "food for their souls" so I put great importance on what they come in contact with on a daily basis. I know that to some this sounds extreme but it doesn't take much effort at this point; just making sure the grandparents are on the same page, not watching TV, not shopping at corporate toy stores.

I hear what you are saying about your dd loving the plastic one; but for us plastic dolls aren't an option; if my kids' want doll play they play with natural fiber ones that I have made, and if they didn't want to play with one no problem. But I do understand that for your dd the doll was something that she loved and that love is a beautiful thing.

I also think we get to a hard place as far as gifts do not equal love, but they can be an expression of the love someone feels for your child. I would hope out of that love that a relative could make some concessions for what values the parents want to foster.

And one more thing and then I will give it a rest... I just wanted to add that I enjoy this kind of debate and sharing of ideas. It helps me clarify my own ideas about parenting as well as understand other's perspectives. I am stating my own personal beliefs about what it important for my family, with no criticism on how other families do things. Sometimes it is hard online to judge the tone of a post and I want to be sure everyone knows my intention is to post kindly.


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## Breathless Wonder (Jan 25, 2004)

I guess I am having issues with the whole "It's the thought that counts..." mentality.

I don't SEE many of the gifts that are given as being thoughtful. Thoughtful in the sense that "the child will enjoy this...it fits in with his or her interests, or expands on those interests..."

I see a lot of buying of toys that the BUYER would have liked as a child, or that the buyer thinks the child "must have". Barbies are a good example of this for most girls. I guess this wouldn't be such an issue for me if the gift giver sat down with the child, and explained how much he/ she enjoyed that toy as a child, and shared the gift with the child, but it usually doesn't happen that way. The toys become "stuff" without meaning.


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## frand (May 8, 2004)

farmer mama - a very nice post. Thanks. You are right, we are going to disagree on this. Many times on MDC I feel my age -- I'm 43, I've lost both my parents and my FIL in the past few years, and even a friend my own age. I think most of the women posting on here are in their 20s and 30s -- the ages when you are more principled but less experienced. When you start losing people you love in the world, you get a whole different perspective on what's important. To this day, I don't buy corporate or plastic gifts for anyone myself, as my FIL used to say (to my MIL's enduring irritation), "You always buy such special things." So I know the issue well from the side of the giver. I have just learned that this does not change the vast choices out there and that my relatives are not going to make the effort to shop differently for my child than the other children in the family. Yes, it's annoying because I bought wonderful things for their children over the years, but I would rather my daughter have an opportunity to have relationships with people where I am minimally interfering. I have come to appreciate that she deserves her own experiences in the world and there is no way I can shelter her from plastic dolls and McDonald's entirely. I can set a great example, I can buy what I believe in, but when I invite her classmates to her birthday, she's going to get some Polly Pocket thing that is going to set my teeth on edge. Polly is not food for the soul, that is for sure, but she is a fact in the world my daughter has to learn to function in.

I'll end it on this note so you understand where I am coming from -- yesterday I wound up twirling jump rope in my driveway for six neighborhood kids. I felt very gratified when one of their moms commented, 'with all the toys these children have combined, who would have thought a simple rope would make them so happy?'


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## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

Oh argh, I'm choosing to let my partner do what he wants with his car? What kind of sense does that make?

What is coming through loud and clear on this thread is that if this isn't a problem for you, you have no idea how bad a problem it can be. This isn't occasional gift-giving. This isn't one doll, or one Happy Meal toy. Of course no one would be upset at that! Or, I dunno, maybe some people would. But this thread wasn't the "omg I cannot control every single material object that enters my child's life" thread. The OP was asking if anyone had any actual experience instituting a no-gifts rule. She obviously realizes how potentally destructive such a rule is. Give her, and me, some credit. No one would consider such a move if we hadn't explored lots of other ways of dealing with the deluge.

I am going to reiterate: this is not, at least for me, about keeping certain kinds of toys or candy out of my house. I consider that a separate problem. This is about the sheer quantity of stuff, which I'm getting the feeling that a lot of posters just plain don't believe in. I didn't make up that story about the trash can, ladies.

If you don't understand my "hostility," let me explain: it's really pissy to tell people that they're wrong to be upset.


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## asherah (Nov 25, 2001)

I never said you were wrong to be upset.
I defy you to find that line in any of my posts.

I stated my opinion. You chose to take it personally. And that probably should have been taken to PM in the first place.

But I will bow out of this thread now for the sake of the other mamas who are trying to talk.
I don't want my opinions.. and your continued hostility.. to get this thread closed.


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