# Healing the Gut Tribe.......April



## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

First--check out this link to JaneS's superawesome incredible fabulous HEALING THE GUT CHEAT SHEET!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...3&postcount=51

Hi guys! Happy extra daylight!

I need some help developing fanatical adherance! We were making progress, but I was still giving the girls sippies with 24 hr yogurt and banana. Now I have all the stuff for the diet (except dccc--gah--my hfs can't get it yet! anybody know a boston or providence source?). Tomorrow it begins for all three of us with no cheating. (I thought I could skip the gelatin and juice. Now I'm looking forward to juice!) I already lost two pounds from the first version, tho, and it really makes me crazy being on the diet....

Who else is doing this with 15 month olds? And themselves at the same time? Perhaps a roll call of sorts is in order? I'm 33, didn't think I had anything too bad going on, but now I think there's majot healing to be done. I;ve added glutamine for myself (can I give 1/4 to the girls?); I take clo; nutrient 950 pure encapsulation multis; a calc/mag/zinc supplement; and Bs (all sugar/starch/yeast free). I need a good C to replace my emergin'c. I'm breastfeeding twins 15.5 m.o. girls, one whose diarrhea is worse than the other's (she's had more trouble gaining weight). They've been better since we switched to NT, but eventhe carrots are showing up in their bms (of course they were mashed rather than pureed--everything thinks I'm such a fanatic, but i need help with the adherance, people!) So tomorrow I'm having my sister come by to help me manage our moods. Wish us luck. We're going to NY Thurdsday and staying with a sympathetic friend...who thinks I'm being a bit fanatical ("all babies' poops are weird").

Question: It says the only specific thing to introduce at a certain time is the yogurt. I feel like a bad reader because I can not for the life of me figure out WHEN to intro it. Please enlighten me!

[Here's more info than you want to know about us:
i guess i should add to my intro. i've had minor yeast issues, not enough to ever go to a doctor. but i was on antideprressants and antianxiety meds for years, then i added too much red wine, eventually had a seizure, got off all meds (and stopped wanting the wine!), and three months later got pregnant with in vitro after 5 years of various other fertility treatments. sigh. then i tried to lose weight while nursing--never going more than the "allowable" .5 to 1 lb a week, but using splenda and eating dead food. when i started the girls on solids (it's solids or formula, said the extinct pedi), i realized that i was giving them everything organic except my milk. so first i got pretty close to organic myself. then i read about NT, and i've been steadily getting healthier the past few months thru NT.

the girls came out tiny, and i had them vaxxed the first year before i knew better







. they had formula and bm the first 9,5 weeks, but once i got them all on the boob, they stopped gaining. and they were colciky. i was eating horrible packaged stuff because ihad no time to cook. they never slept without lying on me--still barely do. i gave them zantac for about a month for the colic--maybe less time; it did nothing. i gave them tylenol for imaginary teething. i had three fillings done while breastfeeding--gah! we started solids at 6 months and they gained weight, but i don't think they've ever had a solid poop until just recently. i was told this was normal because i was breastfeeding. i am currently desperately in search of a book with pictures of normal poop. is there a doctor of scatology here?
Thanks guys!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

For those of you experiencing sensitivities with almonds... are they organic almonds?

I used to have a lot of problems with my throat swelling and closing up from certain "conventional" fruits (esp. apples) all my life. When I found organics, I was in heaven, no problems at all.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Mehera,

I posted before about both Star and S&S carrying Friendship farmer's cheese, did you check them?

See the food introducing chart at Pecanbread for help:
http://www.pecanbread.com/foodprep.html#beyond

It's not 100% accurate, it's based on parent feedback and some kids might be different. My DS couldn't do spinach early on for ex. But at least it's a general guideline. BTVC only addresses introduction of some things like waiting til some healing has occured for raw fruits and veggies, whole nuts, dried fruits and coconut.

From March's thread: Gelatin is very important for gut healing, but if you are doing bone broths, that is a good substitute for the fruit blocks.

Glutamine can cause significant hyperactivity, go carefully. It's also contained in bone broths and gelatin I believe so anther reason why they are so healing.

I'm liking natural vitamin C lately, it has the bioflavonoids intact. Much more potent in smaller doses than the chemical C (ascorbic acid, sodium ascorbate). If you take the chemical stuff for a which you develop a bioflavoniod deficiency. And biofl's are very helpful for allergies and histamine reactions.

Amal or Amalaki powder is a source of whole foods C. I found additive free Paradise Herbs Amla and Himalaya Amla, both at www.iherb.com or www.papanature.com (which has a $10 off coupon for new members)


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

hola


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

DS has dropped down to 30th percentile for height.









I knew this was going on. He stopped growing so much it seems when I weaned him. The kid who has been in the upper registers since birth (almost 10lbs). His dad is 6'3" too. His weight is 95th, my chunky monkey.

So obviously it's the minerals effecting his growth. Another "tell me something I don't know" but what do do about it!? She didn't address this specifically, no time surprisingly in our 45 min appt. It goes fast.

DS gets Brainchild Ultra Senstive minerals, 2 cups of goat yogurt and nuts every day and bone broths when I can get them into him. Plenty of minerals. I supplement with vitamin D and A in CLO, and he also gets goat butter which also has A&D. He's just not absorbing the minerals. Possibly is magnesium deficient too but I can never get that to work without feeling like it's effecting him negatively.









More on chunky monkeys with gut issues here, this makes sense to me giving the unbelievably healthy diet he eats:
http://www.healingcrow.com/scdwisdom.../lwscd_62.html

We talked about NAET treatments. 10 sessions in all. She can get ins. to pay for one allergy visit/month, so maybe we will do 2 visits over the next 5 months. I would be a surrogate to do the muscle testing on, holding DS in my lap. http://www.naet.com/

*Sarahariz*,
Didn't you do NAET? any tips? I need to read up on it.

Still waiting for bacteria/parasitology tests from Great Smokies and c. difficile test and stool culture from local lab. (The latter stool culture is probably a duplicate of the Great Smokies but the lab people said it's always ordered with a c. diff so who was I to refuse more testing!)

So when the tests come back she will probably recommend herbal treatment. One she mentioned was uva ursi.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Jane,

I found some studies where they selected small children and gave them supplemental zinc. They outgrew the control group. What's fascinating is that they did not test their zinc status, just selected small children. They concluded that smallness must be an indicator of subclinical zinc deficiencies. I imagine the same could be true with a stop in growing. Frederick's been off the charts since he was a few months old. And I don't mean off the top of the charts.

Amanda


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

re: Frederick
Thank you, this is so hard and frustrating as you know only too well. The Ultra sensitive mineral multi has zinc, maybe not enough for him, I don't know. Maybe I'll try extra. I do have a sample of Brainchild liquid zinc but then I was worried I'd be giving too much when he didn't need it.









Talking to the Ped about the blood test you recommended for minerals was also on my list. Unfortunately my list was too long I guess! I'm impatient for sure.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I would be a surrogate to do the muscle testing on, holding DS in my lap. http://www.naet.com/
We did this w/dd. I held her & she was tested through me. I was skeptical at first but I think it really does have some benefits. The energies can change though so rapidly that one day a dc might be reactive to something and the next be okay w/it. Dh and I actually practiced at home doing it ourselves and it's really easy to do w/some practice.

The only thing about it now is that when we did the muscle testing, it showed that dd was okay with wheat!







RAST testing showed she was HIGHLY allergic to wheat. So . . . I kind of feel that it led us down the wrong path kwim?


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Yep, it feels like a big game of pin the tail on the donkey, that's for sure.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

watching...


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I think dd has fifths disease. (one more thing). Luckily it is pretty benign as childhood diseases go. I'm glad to start with it. It does mean no play dates and such for a while I guess. I'll have to ask other mama's what they think. DD seems fine but has the slapped cheek rash that I was thinking was teething and another rash on her knee. She had a high fever last night but slept fine so I didn't medicate.

She is tolerating the no-fenol fine, when I can get it into her. I hate to do battle with her over the enzymes when she isn't feeling well but I suspect they will help her feel better too. I'm at least glad they don't bother her. I'm not sure if the candidase is making me feel bad or perhaps I also have fifths. Hard to know right now.

We're plugging along. I'm thinking about trying raw veggies again soon. Anyone have any suggestions for good ones to try first? I'm thinking lettuce would be easy to digest, right? What else? Would fruit be easier? I made a raw strawberry smoothie yesterday am and I think we were fine but then none of us feel very good so it is hard to tell what is causing what.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

The most difficult situation for me on SCD has been trying to figure out if my crappy disposition is because of die-off or as a reaction for food. I just never know now, but I try to keep a close eye on the food choices anyway.

I was _really_ surprised that I seem to be reacting to almonds. They're out for a while, and I'll try again next week perhaps and see if I have the same reaction (tip of tounge swollen). Jane, my almond flour isn't organic. I have my eye out for some from the US because my brother will be visiting there soon. Do you have a good bulk source?

Rollcall eh?

I'm 23, mama to 3-1/2 yo DD and 1-1/2 yo DS.

DS had reflux and then eczema as a young baby (reflux from 3 months on; eczema starting around 4 months till about 10). I believe it was the elimination diet that helped get the offending foods out. What I didn't realize at the time was that it wasn't necessarily the foods per se that was the primary issue.

My theory is that I have a leaky gut -- and have for a a couple years at least -- which lead to food proteins being passed in to my milk. As a NB, my DS had an "open gut" which allowed some of these proteins in to his blood stream and caused his immune system to react to them.

The elimination diet was a band-aid solution, because even now he has gut is leaky. About 2 months ago (15 mo), my DS's eczema started to gradually return. Now that we're on the SCD (both kids and myself), I can see DS's eczema very gradually improving. I'm holidng my breath though -- I fear restricting his diet to fewer foods will mean greater likelyhood of him becoming sensitive to those foods.

I haven't got around to getting the right supplements right now, nor have I read up enough about enzymes to get started. It's very bare-bones SCD here


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Arrghh! So I've come to the conclusion (begrudgingly) that dd and I are very sensitive to eggs. So now I have to figure out how to do this diet egg free. Baking egg free is going to be the hardest part. Expecially when I see most of the baked goods are all egg! But I must admit, we feel a lot better since I stopped eating them. I've never really seen a reaction from eggs in baked things, but still going to stay far away f rom them. Last week dd had 3 poops in her pants (hiding, not telling me poops which are very very unusual) and umpteen pee misses. This weekend, even with staying at my dad's place, she has told me everytime she has too pee or poo. So the eggs definetely mess with her system. I've just never noticed before because I would only have them once and a while. So I am hoping that is what is causing the excema. Interestingly the bumps on the backs of my upper arms came back. I thought these were from VIt a definciency. But thinking they might be related to the eggs? I do take CLO when I remember.

So I decided since we were so messed up anyway that this weekend was eat whatever weekend! For dd that means crackers and me icecream








But going to start all over this week.

Ok now for rollcall: I am a 28 yr old single mom to a 16 mo dd. I believe my leaky gut and yeast issues (guessing here) affected dd's gut. We had thrush on an off for 3 months last year. I have psoriasis or excema on my scalp, and dd has a flaky scalp too. I've always been watchful off dd because of dx'd allergies in other little ones in the family.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Pattyla what is fifth's disease?


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Baking egg free is going to be the hardest part. Expecially when I see most of the baked goods are all egg!

*Egg Free Baking*

Baked and pureed butternut or acorn squash, mashed ripe bananas, homemade apple or pearsauce can be used to substitute for eggs in a recipe. If the recipe says 2 eggs, substitute 1/2 cup of the mashed or pureed item.

Another way to replace eggs is to soften a teaspoon of gelatin in 3 tablespoons of boiling water. Stir until the gelatin is completely dissolved. Then, freeze until it has thickened a bit. Beat until frothy. This equals one egg.

Source: http://www.pecanbread.com/foodprep.html#beyond

I have used these most of these substitution when we were egg-free. They give great results.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Pattyla what is fifth's disease?

It is a childhood disease. Not a bad one. Fever, "slapped face rash", lacy rash on body, possible joint aches esp in adults (







: I don't get it). It is just one more thing, on top of everything else. Of course I have af this weekend and it is a bad one. Thankfully dh is stepping up and taking over in a lot of things for me but now he doesn't feel good. DD seems better today so I'm thinking we are past the worst of it.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Jane-be very careful with zinc. Too much can be quite toxic. For a kiddo his age I don't think I'd be personally comfprtable with more than 10 mg a day. The upper limit for adults (as a supplement-not therapeutic) is 30 mg. We did some NAET and EFT. I prefer homeopathy myself. Not that they are mutually exclusive, I just feel it works better. EFT you can do yourself. It's not supposed to work as quickly as NAET, but it's supposed to work as well.

I did SCD with a 15 month old and followed it myself as she was nursing. My ds did it as well. It didn't occur to me until I was typing this that I did it without reservation. I was vegan and started eating meat when it was clear her life was in danger. I'm struggling with adding meat back now (I cut it our again after she was soing really well) and am having a really hard time. I know I need to, I just can't seem to do it. I'm trying-but maybe that's where I need to focus. IT wasnt' an option not to do it for her, maybe I need to think that way about my new babe. Anyhow, dd had reflux and celiac disease along with many other food allergies-ds had many food allergies as well. I decided on SCD because I don't believe in elimination diets and wanted to heal, not chase allergies.

We're still doing SCD by default as none of us do well on grains. I eat all fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds with butter and eggs. We do CLO and still use L glutamine, zinc, quercetin, enzymes, cal/mag and vitamineral greens (which isn't technically legal) I just got bones for broth so I'm going to just go for it and make it. I also got oxtail for the gelatin-anyone ever used that? It's weirding me out for sure, but I guess it has quite a bit of the good stuff!


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

(oh, i lost my first reply)

hi guys!

yes, firefaery, after screwing it up the first try, i now understand i have to do it too, and i'm convinced their health is at stake even tho everyone says i am crazy to worry.

artisticat--i may be behind you soon with the eggs. i was tested and had a slight allergy to yolks and whites a while back. i'm hoping my body's changed, but i think i'm fooling myself. but i gotta eat something!

thanks for all the info jane (and i mean to write you about that mercury article--my background is writing/editing). i called stopnshop and they may get some dccc today. sorry your ds isn't getting taller right now--he will! you're doing such good work for him! my larger dd still fits is 9 month petite bateau footed pants, at 15.5 months. sigh. (i loved that brand because the newborn size fit them as preemies.) the gelatin is very good (tho i shouldn't have gotten purple grape juice!); i need to look up nutritional info on broths and gelatin; i had all that stuff in my head from my old diet/eating habits. i hope the dccc makes a better cheesecake than the yogurt.

I STILL DON'T KNOW WHEN TO ADD THE YOGURT! i am blind to that tidbit of info; please enlighten me.

patty, hitting your first virus at 2 seems pretty impressive. i hope you get thru it; it's draining. hopefully she'll want to nurse more (mine always do), and she'll get some extra good stuff into her system! plus people often say kids mature after an illness--i think it's been true with mine.

what organic juices do you use--i got woodstock farms pure pineapple (haven't opened yet) and r.w. knudsen grape. i trust them without prrof--is this the talk of a non-fanatic? am i off to buy dole in a can (say it isn't so!)

(oh and my almnds were organic, soaked and crispified! sigh.)

my time is up! hope everyone has a great day!


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

OK, Rollcall.
I'm Jennifer, I have systemic yeast that I've passed on to my children.







:
I have mercury problems due to that lying b****d of a dentist I went to around 10 years ago. I was never bf myself, so I think that that's where my problems started...
I have a dh who has some major gut issues...
A ds who has attention behavioral problems (partially vaxed







) EBF








A dd who has gut absorption problems. (No vaxing







) still BF too









We're slowing starting to work on all these things. We are on enzymes and working to get rid of the yeasty beasties. Then, hopefully we'll be able to move on to really healing guts here.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
I STILL DON'T KNOW WHEN TO ADD THE YOGURT! i am blind to that tidbit of info; please enlighten me.

I think on SCD yogurt is allowed right from the start









BTVC says you can moisten DCCC with yougurt or use dripped yogurt as a DCCC replacement for the beginners diet. I see no reason not to have yogurt then right from the start. That's what I've done.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I believe you can start yogurt after the intro diet...we only did the intro for two days and then I waited to start yogurt because of massive dairy sensitivity issues. I intro'd the yogurt with enzymes to counter that but we still can't do any dairy. I'm actually fine with that-it was a stretch for me! OFten people with CD can't tolerate dairy in any form and that is the case for us.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Jane-be very careful with zinc. Too much can be quite toxic. For a kiddo his age I don't think I'd be personally comfprtable with more than 10 mg a day. The upper limit for adults (as a supplement-not therapeutic) is 30 mg.

I think the studies used 5 mg/day and was a six month study. But I don't have it right here so if anyone wants me to follow-up, beat on me until I post it.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Do you know if they took into account other supplements like multis when they did it, or was it just an accross the board supplementation? Either way, 5 mg is enough to make a difference, and not likely to cause a toxic load even with the addition of a multi. If you think of it, it would be an interesting read.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Roll call:

I'm Amanda, 37 years old. I have one son Frederick who will be 4 later this month. I started on a candida diet in March of 2003 and was very strict for 9 months. My systemic yeast symptoms disappeared. But I still have heavy metal issues and have been told since the beginning that the yeast won't be totally gone until the metal is under control. Indeed, I get nipple thrush on occasion, but it typically goes away by itself. I've come a long way since the ductal yeast. It's all been diet. I took antifungals but not in a dedicated fashion.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Do you know if they took into account other supplements like multis when they did it, or was it just an accross the board supplementation? Either way, 5 mg is enough to make a difference, and not likely to cause a toxic load even with the addition of a multi. If you think of it, it would be an interesting read.

They were infants and toddlers and just gave zinc. I've got it somewhere around here.


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## aileen (Jan 23, 2006)

hi all.
here! i'm a 32 yo mama to a 3 yo with intense eczema. we've been dabbling in the SCD and NT diets but i'm about to go whole hog because the more i mess up the more obvious it becomes. yesterday we made a practice birthday cake (sunday







), gluten free, egg free, only kefir for dairy, but i used sugar (gasp!) and now i have cracked flaking dry skn across my eyes and nose - just where i used to slather myself with cortizone years ago. i know - practically a hand calligraphed note from the yeast. it's time - i just don't know why i'm dragging my feet so much. i'm really tired of the restrictions. all the elimination diets have really beaten me down.
dd and i are doint NAET right now, (with Levatin, for my fellow MA mamas) and i wish i was super behind it but to be honest, i don't have the faith that it'll solve things the way i feel like SCD might. i'm trying to be open and i can feel the differences as we do the treatments, but, until dd decides to wean, my gut has to be better. still, i hope after every treatment that "this'll be the one she needed to sleep more than 2 hours straight".
ugh - i should sign off, i'm staring down the barrel of at least a year of more crazy diet and i don't know which is worse - that i don't know if i can do it, or that i don't know if i can't. i need an attitude adjustment. where's that shirt i had in fourth grade?
sorry for the bummer turn there friends.
next time i check in i promise i'll be funnier.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

thanks for the yogurt info. i'll start again wed. i'm going for 36 hour yogurt!

oh aileen, it's so hard, huh? i've already gotten into a great big fight with my sister today. i mean BIG. (she was supposed to come help us.) sigh. but the changes i've seen in the small steps i've made so far tell me it will be worth it.

there are just so many cultural/social/emotional attachments and associations to food! even at my littles' young age! they just gorged on funky cheesecake for lunch. a dab of carrot. less than a bite of meat. and no gelatin. i just drank cold stock--gah! because of the worry over getting my amalgams warm. but all this is good even tho i still have the amalgams, right? i never had big yeast issues, tho i can't figure out what stopped them (my old ben and jerry fro yo addiction?). and now i am rambling.........


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Roll call.

I'm Patty and have had a candidia issue for years but been unwilling to address it head on. Now my dd, Wisteria, who is 2 also has a candidia issue and I wish I would have done something before she came along but I didn't so here we are. We've been doing scd for 6 weeks now (and gf for 3 weeks before that)

I'm pretty discouraged today. Last night dh gave dd a bowl of applesauce for her bedtime snack. She was up forever chatting up a storm unable to go to sleep and today she is a wreck (hangover?). I just want her and I to be better. I want to feed her good food that she likes to eat. I get so sad when she asks for good healthy foods and I can't give them to her. I don't want her to develope issues about food and yet how can she not when I am telling her she can't eat carrot sticks? (she can't have anything raw yet) I feel like we have hit a plateau and I don't no how to get past it. I also have no idea how I am going to get an anti fungal into her. I'm thinking about buying a juicer so that I can make the carrot/garlic juice for us to drink. She was eating raw garlic cloves the other day (but now won't).

I also beleive that she craves certain things because she needs them but I don't know how to fulfill those needs. She craves fish oil and has for a very long time. She craves fish and will eat a lot at one sitting. She also craves fat and will eat butter or other fatty things straight as well. I don't cook low fat but I can see that she needs even more than I am offering but I'm not sure how to do that. I also wonder if she is actually needing a nutrient that is in fat but not necessarily in a high level in the particular fats she is getting if you follow. She rarely is offered beef. We have begun eating lamb several times a week starting 3 weeks ago and we also eat a lot of chicken and fish 3-5x a month. Any insight into this?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Roll call:

I'm 26 and have a 3 month old DD. She recently got a weird rash on her butt cheeks which started a few days after I started eating a lot more dairy...since then she's had blood in her poop 4 different days in the last two weeks, although I've eliminated dairy. I have a long history of low blood sugar and acne. I started the Maker's Diet on Saturday and also started taking digestive enzymes. I really hope this helps (me too but especially DD)...my diet was already pretty much the same as the Maker's Diet 3rd stage, so I don't know if starting from the beginning will help or not.

OK, now for my questions...
1) I bought the Enzymedica Digest Gold enzymes...the Houston ones are quite a bit cheaper but don't have nearly as many enzymes in them. Are they just as good or would I need to take more or more than one type with the Houston ones?

2) How long do the enzymes last? It often takes me an hour to finish a meal between tending to my DD...are the enzymes still good? And sometimes I snack constantly throughout the day...do I need to take enzymes with everything I eat, or if I am snacking on raw foods and only eating a little can I skip the enzymes?

3) The Maker's Diet recommends adding yogurt or kefir after the first 2 weeks, and others have recommended them for probiotics...should I add them in a couple of weeks or wait, since it seems that my daughter may have a problem with dairy? I do have raw milk so it would be raw milk yogurt or kefir.

4) Any suggestions on combating low blood sugar while I'm doing this? The diet is so restricted the first couple of weeks it seems like I'm not getting enough to eat and have low blood sugar feelings constantly. I'm eat a fair amount of protein and fat (lots of eggs and almonds) so I'm not sure what else to do.

5) I read that only raw food has enzymes...is this correct? If it is it would explain why I had so many problems with low blood sugar after eating grains...I usually ate them by themselves and they were always cooked! So should I eat something raw each time I eat?


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

subbing


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## vegmom (Jul 23, 2003)

Rollcall: I am am 29 and have been suffering from systemic candida since i was 16 after being on antibiotics and being on a high carbohydrate vegetarian/vegan diet. That is 13 years(almost 14)! I have 2 dd's (3.5 and 1.5 years old). This year they the eldest has had chronic ear infections (5 over the winter) and dd#2 has had one ear infection. Both of them had one course each of antibiotics. We are seeing a chiropractic doctor for help with this.
Lately i have noticed that after each meal I get bloated and get stomache pains. Is this Leaky Gut? I have the dr. Mercola book and the NT book. I started fermenting - raw milk yogurt-12hr(turned out very bitter), sourkraut (wich tastes good but makes my teeth super sensitive after I eat it-very painful). The kraut is going on its 2nd week. I also made a beet kvass out of NT and it tastes awful. The digestion has improved when i eat and drink these things. I just need to eat them on a regular basis. I don't know if I could finish eating the kraut because of the teeth sensitivities - has anyone had this happen to them?

I have tried elimination diets but fail miserably. I just have no willpower over bread and sugar. My kids have a hard time too. They get offered it at school and from family who know that they are not supposed to have wheat and sugar.







:

How does everyone else handle social situations/birthdays/holidays? Cravings? Dh's resistance and bringing junk food in the house? temptation? I have failed so many times, felt miserable and now believe that I will live with this all my life. Is there an AA type program for this? Candidiases Anonymous?







A 12 step program would realy be helpful. I realy don't want my girls to struggle like I am.

My kids are also very small. When dd#1 was 1.5y.o. she was classified as failure to thrive. She was 19lbs. My dd#2 got weighed last month at the hospital when she went in for breathing problems and ear infection and was 18lbs. They did not classify her as failure to thrive because she was sick. But it sure freaked me out! Both of them eat yogurt and clo, they did not seem to have any allergies as long as they ate the yogurt and i just figured that since both girls are small that it must be just as they are. Now I am a bit worried. Amanda do you have more info on the zinc study?

Also, what is DCCC?

Thank you for all great information and support!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Hello to all the new people here!

I am 39 and mom to 2 dds: a 2.5 year old and 1 year old on April 10th!

I found out about healing the gut through searching for a reason why dd2 would NOT sleep. I refused to believe that it was "just her nature" as so many people suggested.







: I mean really, how many *healthy* newborns sleep for only 5 hours (total - not consecutive) in a 24 hour period?

Dd also would get dark circles under her eyes, red swollen eyes, and little red bumps underneath them. I KNEW it was related to food. I tried eliminating dairy, tried the total elimination diet, tried chiropractors, applied kinesiology, mainstream drugs (for dds reflux), I tried, tried, tried.

It wasn't until our chiro/naturpath suggested enzymes for dds *allergies* and said both dds stomach and mine were weak that I began to delve more into this. JaneS posted once to a thread of mine not to think of it as food allergies, but to think of it as not being able to absorb/digest.

Well, all of a sudden it clicked. I'd had GI issues actually since birth when I had a rare type of intestinal thing (duodenal atresia) and had surgery for it. Since then I'd been diagnosed w/diverticulitis, IBS . . . but never really thought much of it. 'Til now.

BTW, dd2 really does have a *real* allergy to wheat/gluten so thank goodness we started the SCD about 3 weeks before we went to see her allergist. The improvements in her are nothing short of amazing. And despite having little sleep and even less excersice, I feel great.







On the days I feel like my butt's dragging, I can look back and pinpoint it to something I ate but was not ready for yet.

I've got dh and dd1 doing this with me too. (Well, dh's diet is a bit modified.







)


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Caedmyn: correct. Anytime food is heated above the 118 degree mark enzymes begin to die. Grains that you buy preground are never living food, whole grains can be made "live" by soaking and sprouting them. Cooking them, however, will destroy those enzymes. This is the traditional reason for consuming things like salads or fermented foods before a meal-gets enzymes going putting less of a stress on the body. Live foods take a major load off the pancreas and help with out of control insulin levels. Eating raw food before eating cooked food will help.


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## bhawkins (Jun 5, 2005)

OK, sorry if this sounds completly stupid, but how do you know if you have a systemic yeast problem, leaky gut, etc? Please someone point me in the right direction. My 1y/o DS has a reoccuring yeast rash and maybe this is the problem.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Don't have much time tonight, back tom... work and IL's bogging me down.

but reading the roll call has been AMAZING! How many common themes we all have. Great idea Mehera









Y'all know our story, right? and I'm not admitting my age again


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bhawkins*
OK, sorry if this sounds completly stupid, but how do you know if you have a systemic yeast problem, leaky gut, etc? Please someone point me in the right direction. My 1y/o DS has a reoccuring yeast rash and maybe this is the problem.

Not all all stupid question!!
Mostly digestive issues but also many other, see here:

Quote:

Symptoms of leaky gut syndrome may include:

• aggression • anxiety • asthma • atypical sensory reactions • bed-wetting • bladder infections • bloating or gas • chronic joint, muscle, or abdominal pain • confusion • diarrhea or constipation • fatigue • fevers of unknown origin • fuzzy thinking or 'brain fog' • indigestion • memory problems • migraines • mood swings • nervousness • poor exercise tolerance • poor immunity • skin rashes
http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionleakygut.htm

Quote:

Bad bacteria appears to be much easier to get rid of than yeast overgrowth. Bacteria is characterized by:

aggression, moodiness, irritability, 'anger' for no apparent reason
sleep problems but not with the inappropriate giggling or laughter
really foul smelling stools or body odor (we are talking incredible STENCH); bad breath; stinky sweat
ammonia odor
frequently occurs with constipation (infrequent painful stools, streaking/smearing in underwear, etc); see encopresis/chronic constipation...

With yeast, common indicators are:

yeast rashes somewhere else in the body: thrush on the tongue, athlete's food, vaginal irritation in girls/women
intense carbohydrate cravings
inappropriate uncontrollable sudden giggling or laughter (yeast by-products include alcohol so you get 'drunk-like' behavior particularly after eating carbs or sweets)
poor sleep, sleep waking at night
moodiness, emotionalism you don't have a reason for
odd behavior about 30 minutes after eating
http://www.enzymestuff.com/conditionbacteria.htm
Elaine Gottschall believes many people with gut issues have both yeast and bacterial problems and hence uses the term "microbes" a lot to encompass them all.

I think "yeast" can be a catch all term. Bacterial problems are not as well known as yeast b/c yeast has had the author Crook to popularize it, The Yeast Connection, etc.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Jane-be very careful with zinc. Too much can be quite toxic. For a kiddo his age I don't think I'd be personally comfprtable with more than 10 mg a day.

Thanks, this is what he's getting in the Brainchild multi minerals so I'll just lay off the extra for now.

I swear NOTHING works with this child!!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

rollcall
Another Jennifer, with thrush and yeast problems for years, amalgam fillings, PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome), depression which is seasonally affected, migraines, asthma (which is better off wheat), tinnitis. One precious ds, who turned three in Feb, who has thrush (white coating on tongue -- he had it almost constantly his first six months or so of life), along with attention problems and sensory integration problems and some autistic traits.

We've been doing SCD since October of last year. We saw some improvement right away (ds became more social, less fearful, potty trained himself - daytime only). Then the improvement slowed, and lately I've been really feeling like we need to do something more.

DS feasts on fruit, which I try to discourage but get nowhere. I hate to deny him stuff that is technically scd legal, but I feel like he's not getting enough nutrients eating mostly fruits. Sigh. For myself, I think that I need to cut out cow's milk of all kinds, as it seems to activate my asthma and gives me migraines. But it's so scary to think of how I would get my calcium, phosphorus, etc.

Jane, I have a feeling that Paradise Herbs Amla stuff would give me a migraine -- I think it's the tannins in walnuts and wine that give me migraines. Oh, bother!


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

JaneS--I DON'T know your story--just what i've pieced together! but you can omit your age if you must







.

a homepathy question--it is within the realm of "fanatical adherance" to use? nico's getting a molar so i'm liberal with the teething tabs. i'm taking ignatia and argentum to help combat the anxiety i am feeling with the diet.

patty--that's so awesome she likes fish oil! but she clearly wants fats, huh? i've given my nico butter straight! she eats it. her sister needs it more and will not eat it. when we can incorporate it, i'll be given them those frozen almond/coconut oil/honey conefctions i found a recipe for on the scd page. they love them! me too!

re: wondering if you've "got it"--in my developing opinion, i think a host of the complaints mamas have about their babes can be cured thru nutrition. there. i said it! (and it can't hurt to try! my girls got amazingly "better" after just taking bread from their diet!)


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Can I ask someone in the know some TMI questions about stool? I'd rather PM...


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Sorry I haven't been around. We've been following the SCD w/fanatical adhearence (was going to go w/MD, but being that I might have cancer, I just wanted to go straight to the SCD), and I've noticed, really, no change whatsoever









In the beginning, I had intense itchiness, but now, nothing. And w/the itchiness, I was off of sugars and grains, but not 100%, yk? We're doing Houston enzymes, yadda yadda. I'm supplementing w/CLO, flax seed oil, probiotics, doing 30hr raw goat yogurt, EV Coconut oil, all of it







My 4 yr old, who is such the trooper and used to not being allowed to eat certain things for his life (







) is taking the enzymes no problem Puke) and has started eating meat w/the rest of us born-again vegans!! The only thing he has is that he has a huge huge red ring around his anus. And his cheeks are a lil' red. Oh, and he has been trying to kill the cats again (which usually happens when he eats something that he reacts to), so maybe it is working well for him. Any thoughts on this?

Oh, quick roll call:

Me, age 30, been healthy and organic for some time. Looking at a possible cancer diagnosis (consult is on the 11th of April) and surgery. Been taking a huge break away from the computer as I realized that I have spent more time living on this screen than w/my family







Luckily, they still want me back. I cannot tolerate cow milk in any form or gluten. Hoping and thinking this is leaky gut. Planning to be away from all grains for 6-12 months.

Hubby, pretty damn healthy despite really poor eating habits as a kid (me too), including being fed evaporated milk w/corn syrup since birth. Never sick. On the diet too for poops and giggles.

DS1, age 4, lots of "allergy" problems, yet doesn't test positive for any allergy. Cannot tolerate cow dairy or gluten in any form. My pregnancy was very unhealthy (mainstream, vegetarian, lots of pastuerized dairy and oreos'). Lots of mainstream medical stuff. Antibiotics for my GBS, morphine during labor, transferred to NICU, tons of antibiotics and "elemental formula" or something. Basically corn syrup and crap in an NG tube. Nothing wrong w/him (morphine depressed his system in the first place). ONE vax at 5 months. Exclusively bf until 8-10 months. Eczema, hyperactivity, destuctive, abusive, loving and empathetic too







All that and a bag of chips.

DS2, 16 months. Doesn't sleep due to some nasal allergy (still fighting insurance to get it paid, see the allopathic dr tomorrow). Has constant sleep apnea and mouth breathes. Right now he has some rash on his bum after I tried some cow cheese a couple weeks ago (hoping it is not the goat stuff, sigh). Pretty healthy though. Oh, forgot, totally different pregnancy, much healthier (vegan + fish + eggs), but too many grains.

Hoping against hope that I will be able to have another baby and hoping that I do not have cancer which would definately delay or deny this. Sigh.

Actually, my children are very healthy compared to most and compared to most on here







I'm very very very lucky. It must be my hubby's good stock


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Hoping against hope that I will be able to have another baby and hoping that I do not have cancer which would definately delay or deny this. Sigh.


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## vermontana (Oct 21, 2005)

, Amy. Glad to see you, sounds like you're keeping your spirits up, you're in my thoughts.

Okay, roll call: Well, I'm not a mama yet







I am working on getting healthy before I TTC, so hopefully I can , first of all, hang onto a pregnancy, and second of all, have a lot of very healthy babies! I am 25, and just delving into the healing the gut thing. I've had terrible acne since early teens, hormonal imbalances, liver weakness, chronic diarrhea, chronic tummy aches, gas and bloating. As a kid I had severe eczema and various allergies, probably from cow milk. My sensitivity to cow milk has not been bad at all for the past few years, but lately seems to be acting up. I ate some (very tasty) homemade whipped cream with DH's (grain free) bday cake the other night, and now have eczema all over my fingers! I am now FOR REAL only eating 24 hour yogurt! I do hope I will be able to go back to eating my raw cheese and drinking a cup or two of raw milk every now and then, too.... I have been off all grains for 2+weeks, and that part has not been that hard. I am fighting serious sugar cravings (even though I eliminated white sugar/processed crap over a year ago). BTVC says honey is okay, but I think I need to cut that out completley for a little while, too, b/c I feel like I am addicted to it, and I can't resist my cravings for sweet things, even if those sweet things are *healthy*, like frozen cherries, or spoonfuls of raw honey. Is this an indicator of candida? I've never had a yeast infection in my life, so I've never really considered that.
I'm so glad I found this place!!!














I am learning A LOT, and feeling confident that I will be able to change my health and get my gut issues under control. Hopefully SOON!! It is hard to put babymaking on hold for so long!


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## Lisadeanne (Sep 15, 2003)

What about brown rice?? Is that a total no-no? I seam to be tolerating it well.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lisadeanne*
What about brown rice?? Is that a total no-no? I seam to be tolerating it well.

It really depends on the individual or what diet you are following.
It can be made easier to digest by soaking for 7 hours first according to _Nourishing Traditions_.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Roll Call

This is our story (probably not updated though)
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=260393


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

I'm a lurker here







:
For all of you who are trying to heal the gut, do you soak your grains? I've just been learning about this over at Nourishing Traditions thread, and thought someone over here might be able to give me the whys and hows. I'm not sure I'm ready for sprouting, but I'll take opinions on that too








Firefaery, don't panic, I'm still on elimination







But I have every intention of being able to eat gluten again. But at the very least, this could be good for the non-gluten grains I'm eating.....
Thanks so much in advance for any help - this is a fast-moving thread, and I feel lost in the info if I don't ask directly.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Nobody knows the answer to my questions (post 29)?







Maybe I'm asking too many at once.

I am at my wits end knowing what to do for my DD (3 months). I know the leaky gut will take time to heal if that is indeed the problem, but she keeps having blood in her poop and I don't know what to do. Should I take her to the doctor? Should I keep trying the diet and hope it works (I've only been doing it for 4 days)? When should the bloody poop disappear by if the diet is going to help? The only foods that are common allergens that I'm eating are almonds and eggs. She hasn't had any behavoral changes, she's still happy and mellow.
Ahhhh! I just don't know what to do.

I called the nurse at the pediatrician's last Friday and she said I should take her to the ER where they would do abdominal X-rays and all sorts of other tests...which I don't want. I mean if there is something wrong I want it figured out but I don't want all these invasive probably un-necessary tests. Then today she had bloody poop again so I called an Ask-a-nurse number and she was trying to make me feel like a horrible mother for not taking her in to see a doctor right away. I just have no faith in doctors at all and I am so upset and I don't know what to do. Maybe I should try to get her in to see a naturopathic doctor...maybe that Jordon Rubin does phone consultations...I don't know what to do.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Jordan Rubin used to do phone consults...it's worth a phone call to find out.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

My next post will be the long awaited CHEAT SHEET.









You didn't expect it to be short did you?









Please critique and think of things I may have missed and I will edit to include. Obviously I'm a bit biased so please feel free to add anything else without fear of reprisal.

*Mehera,*
Could you please edit your first post in the thread with...

*Link to CHEAT SHEET:*
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...3&postcount=51

...so newbies see it first thing?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

CHEAT SHEET

Please see most current version stickied at the top of this forum:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?p=4893042


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Jane, you are awesome!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
OK, now for my questions...
1) I bought the Enzymedica Digest Gold enzymes...the Houston ones are quite a bit cheaper but don't have nearly as many enzymes in them. Are they just as good or would I need to take more or more than one type with the Houston ones?

2) How long do the enzymes last? It often takes me an hour to finish a meal between tending to my DD...are the enzymes still good? And sometimes I snack constantly throughout the day...do I need to take enzymes with everything I eat, or if I am snacking on raw foods and only eating a little can I skip the enzymes?

3) The Maker's Diet recommends adding yogurt or kefir after the first 2 weeks, and others have recommended them for probiotics...should I add them in a couple of weeks or wait, since it seems that my daughter may have a problem with dairy? I do have raw milk so it would be raw milk yogurt or kefir.

4) Any suggestions on combating low blood sugar while I'm doing this? The diet is so restricted the first couple of weeks it seems like I'm not getting enough to eat and have low blood sugar feelings constantly. I'm eat a fair amount of protein and fat (lots of eggs and almonds) so I'm not sure what else to do.

5) I read that only raw food has enzymes...is this correct? If it is it would explain why I had so many problems with low blood sugar after eating grains...I usually ate them by themselves and they were always cooked! So should I eat something raw each time I eat?

I'm sorry I've been so swamped!

Yes, the Digest Gold is very strong all around. But Houston's have benefits of be able to take higher amounts of cellulases (No Fenol) and proteases (Peptizyde) between meals for benefits other than digesting food. Comparable Enzymedica products are Candidase and Virastop for between meal use.

I don't know what to tell you about the dairy and your DD! You gotta just try but maybe you should get squared away with enzymes first so if you have a reaction, you aren't wondering which thing it is.

Karen DeFelice suggests if you are a snacker/grazer, keep some enzymes in an iced or refrigerated drink to sip throughout day. As long as enzymes are kept very cold they are not activated. Once activated, they last about 90 minutes in the stomach.

I think low blood sugar feelings are related to die off, they were for me.

Raw foods will not help grains unless you eat raw foods with carb digesting enzymes. I don't know of any ex. raw honey and fruit I guess, but even then capsules will be much better, more intensive for grains if you have a real problems digesting them.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
2) How long do the enzymes last? It often takes me an hour to finish a meal between tending to my DD...are the enzymes still good? And sometimes I snack constantly throughout the day...do I need to take enzymes with everything I eat, or if I am snacking on raw foods and only eating a little can I skip the enzymes?
I don't know about your other questions but I've read that if you snack all day long you can mix your enzymes in a beverage and sip on it throughout the day before you eat.

Maybe you can find some answers here:
http://www.enzymestuff.com


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Caedmyn,









PM username "moneca" and see if she has any suggestions.
Her DD has had every single test under the sun.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Amy,























I've been thinking about you a lot.

Aggression and red ring usually means yeast. But I swear I've seen these related to die off in DS too. It's so hard to know. Is he eating a lot more fruit? raw fruit that he's not digesting? what is stool quality like?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Patty,

This article was interesting about the role of fat in recovery from chronic disease: http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndi...icdisease.html

I do not at all believe that fat is the enemy... indeed I just reread a passage saying beneficial fats are necessary for increasing probiotics in the gut! It's great for inflammation too. I think you should give her a lot of fat if she wants it. Do you use coconut oil too?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
a homepathy question--it is within the realm of "fanatical adherance" to use? nico's getting a molar so i'm liberal with the teething tabs. i'm taking ignatia and argentum to help combat the anxiety i am feeling with the diet.

I think so... be careful with the sugar tablets. We are using very diluted amounts than regular lactose pill stuff. I know Elaine spoke about it but I cannot find right now. Pecanbread Yahoo group might have a thread on it.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

we are in the midst of die-off. so i'm going, "yay! it's real! it's real!" and "omg, my poor poor babies; i'm so so sorry."








to you all--we are all going thru so much! and i know most are going thru more than we are...

jane, i will update my post (i need to add more details anyway) as soon as i can. maybe tonight if the girls continue sleeping.

tomorrow i'm taking them to their pedi. i want him to order tests. i feel they've been malnourished since birth (or, malabsorbing nourishment), and there's the lead and mercury fears. so i'm going to bring in print outs about these two tests: http://www.gsdl.com/home/assessments/cdsa/ and http://www.directlabs.com/HairElements.php
anything else i should ask for (it can't hurt to ask, right?)?
(he cured his schizophrenia with nutrition, but has since decided it was all genetic, which i didn't know when i decided we'd see him--blah. still, i'm hoping he already knows about btvc. i'll be bringing the book!)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

OMG this is like six degrees of separation b/c the IL's passed thru NY on their way here last week and saw K.V.!

Those are 2 good tests to start with









Amanda also recommends a blood test which is buried to me right now, maybe she can pop in with it.

BTVC has interesting things to say about schizophrenia and diet. It could be genetic in the way autism is... requires a trigger probably to immune system... but with autism, biomedical and nutritional approaches absolutely work.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

AmyD--sending you helathy, healing vibes!

(and i love the phrase "poops and giggles.")


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Mehera, that link isn't working, click on my link, and then post that address. Otherwise you get the truncated version which shows up on the screen.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Well I'm feeling a little calmer now...thanks for the hugs







DH reminded me that I actually did have a tiny bit of butter on Sunday--we went out for dinner and I ordered steamed veggies not realizing they had butter poured over them and I ate one of the carrots and got a bit of the butter on my steak before I realized it, so maybe that caused the bloody poop. I did PM moneca...I think I will at least call a naturopath tomorrow and see if they have any recommendations or if that is something they would be willing to evaluate.

JaneS--thanks for answering my questions. I have a couple more...

Is there anything else (supplements) I should be taking? I'm afraid to try cow yogurt now, so I think I am going to get the Garden of Life probiotics for now, and then try goat's milk yogurt if I can find any. I haven't found any at the two HFS's I've been to, and the only goat's milk they have is ultra-pasturized and I don't want to use it. I do have cod liver oil coming in the mail, too.

Is one capsule of DigestGold per meal/snack the right amount?

If DD has a yeast rash on her butt, would GSE or Candidase or something like that help her (or maybe just the probiotics)? It started as a weird reddish rash and then the yeast bumps popped up. Maybe it was yeast all along, I don't really know. Anyhow, the bumps are gone but the reddish rash, which was mostly gone, is back in full force. Sigh...who knew one little baby could be so complicated!


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Ok, here's a question for you all. I'm not even sure exactly what to ask, I'm bumfuzzled...








DD has some serious absorption (or lack of) issues. We started her on some Houston's enzymes. They seemed to be working great. (Her face gets a bit flushed some, what was it someone said about that?) Well, we were at family's for dinner and forgot the enzymes. She was not going to let us not feed her, so she ate like she normally would. The next day her poops were fairly normal. (A few undigested stuff, but nowhere near like before) So, I've intentionally left off the enzymes a couple of times and the same thing.







Pretty good looking poops. Is it possible to boost up like that? Or is it the probiotics I've been taking passing through to her?
I guess I shouldn't look the proverbial gift horse in the mouth, but COOL!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Also, does anyone know when I could expect to see some sort of change/results if this is going to work? I feel like I'm going into this blind, not really knowing what to expect or even what the right foods/supplements are.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

nevermind, there it is...weird


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Ya'll take a look at this...
http://www.terressentials.com/truthaboutgse.html

So what else can I use to help get rid os yeast?







:


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Quote:

I am at my wits end knowing what to do for my DD (3 months). I know the leaky gut will take time to heal if that is indeed the problem, but she keeps having blood in her poop and I don't know what to do. Should I take her to the doctor? Should I keep trying the diet and hope it works (I've only been doing it for 4 days)? When should the bloody poop disappear by if the diet is going to help? The only foods that are common allergens that I'm eating are almonds and eggs. She hasn't had any behavoral changes, she's still happy and mellow.
I don't know if anybody answered, but the bloody poop was a sign of a dairy allergy for ds.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I think I answered that in another thread? Bloody poop-my first guess is a dairy allergy, but second would be an anal fissure. Is the blood dark or bright red? If it's bright like a fresh cut, my $ is on a fissure which could be internal OR external. If it's darker it means the bleeding is deeper, like from the intestinal lining. Dairy can really ravage the gut and has been linked by even conventional medicine to anemia because of the damage (ulcerations and bleeding) it causes.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--you did answer the blood question in another thread, and it is bright red blood. Those stupid nurses just keep scaring me. I just need to relax and give the healing the gut thing a chance to work.

nicholasmom--how long have you been trying to healing your gut/your DS's gut? Are you able to use dairy again (like 24 hr yogurt) or have you tried?

Anyone tried Garden of Life enzymes (Omega Zyme)? They have a lot of the same stuff as the Enzymedica Digest gold in similar amounts, some different stuff though.


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Quote:

how long have you been trying to healing your gut/your DS's gut? Are you able to use dairy again (like 24 hr yogurt) or have you tried?
I just started the SCD, NOT strictly. I just found the info in the last 2 weeks. Ds had bloody stools around 3 months but we see a Homeopath and a Chinese doctor so we didn't have any invasive treatments to worry about.

At the time he had bloody stools, I stopped soy and milk products and it went away. At around 12 months I tried him or some milk, but it just gives him a bad diaper rash. He eats yoghurt fine now, since 18 months, but yoghurt is different than drinking milk. He does NOT drink milk but drinks rice milk. He can eat mild cheese like colby, farmer's cheese but swiss or sharp cheddar cheese makes his excema worse.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Dd's fissures went away when she stopped dairy (and it was raw, fermented dairy) I also think you may want to think about supplementing with MSM or zinc. They both help with skin and cell integrity. If it's a fissure, the cell walls could use some help. Really, and skin issue will be helped by the two of them. It will also work if the damage is in the gut or outside (fissure) We used tamanu oil on the fissure (you could clearly see dd's) and supped the zinc and MSM for a period of time. Not to freak you out, but I would do somthing. She's obviously bleeding from somewhere opening the gates for a bacterial infection. With an already compromised system it's not somthing I would just wait for, personally. That said-we didnt' use a pediatrician for it at all. I worked with my homeopath and supplemented with things to correct it. I'm not big on medical intervention. IME they have never known what they were doing and created more harm. BUt that's just my experience.

GOL enzymes are great. They are very strong and do compare pretty well with enzymedica's. I preferred Houstons because you could give them in different combinations, but I felt more results with GOL's.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--I'm not exactly doing nothing, I'm eliminating dairy and have started the healing the gut thing because of this. It's more a matter of not knowing what else to do, so I am definitely open to suggestions from people who have been there. I will definitely look into the MSM and zinc...any recommendations on products and doses? Thanks!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Oh, honey! I know you aren't doing nothing-I just mean that it is a gut healing thing, but you may want to do some leg work on this specific issue in the mean time.

Zinc-a liquid form is your best bet. I love scientific botanicals, but there are many decent ones. You don't want to give any more than 10 mg a day, and even then not for more than a week or so. Then drop to five mg. You are much better off with this mineral looking for supplements as opposed to food sources.

MSM-you want a powder. Almost any brand as long as it's pure MSM with no fillers. That you can do about a tsp. a day. IT's slightly bitter, so I stick it in a smoothie.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Anyone have a copy of "Patient Heal Thyself" by Jordan Rubin? I have a copy on hold at the library but it looks like it might be a while before I get it...if someone has a copy would you be willing to tell me what the recommendations in it are for leaky gut?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I've got it, but I have to go find it. I have "Restoring Your Digestive Health" right here though if you want that info. His books don't really differ much in their approach...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I just want to know how long I need to stay on the different phases of the Maker's Diet...also I think somebody said there was a list of different foods that are/aren't good for leaky gut (but that might be too much to copy down, I don't know how long the list is)...if you happen to have a scanner you could scan and email me whatever if that would be easier.


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## Peri Patetic (Feb 16, 2006)

A roll call seems like a good time to intro...

I'm considering the SCD and have been lurking along -- I don't have any specific symptoms of digestive trouble, but am pretty sure I have yeast overgrowth and past history would suggest a leaky gut problem. I had a c-section with my oldest and ended up with the dreaded c. difficile, which was a bear to get rid of. First doc did not want me to do vancomycin because she thought it was incompatible with breastfeeding -- second doc said no problem and gave it to me. Solved the c. diff but can't have been good for my flora overall! DS and I had a terrible time with breastfeeding -- long story, but it involved thrush, a bad latch that left me in pain, my trying an elimination diet with no success, and a near total lack of sleep on his part (which of course impacted my sleep). He was a difficult, cranky, non-sleeping baby/child, and now that I'm reading all this about leaky gut I'm guessing that could have been the problem. The funny thing is, I had thrush again with DD, and even did a course of diflucan for it, but she didn't have any problems like DS had. I did eat a much better diet during that PG though!

Anyway, as I said, I don't have digestive issues but I am so, so tired all the time, no matter how much sleep I get or how well I eat. We are easing into NT eating -- I thought maybe the fatigue was from eating too much sugar but having given up sugar, it's still a problem. I'm not eating much in the way of grains or other starches at all, mostly meat, lots of veg and fruit, some nuts, and raw dairy. I'm wondering about adrenal problems, or maybe yeast causing the fatigue. I've been taking Candidase as well as Digest Gold and some sea minerals, plus CLO daily, but no other supps. I'm thinking about ordering some adrenal gland capsules from Dr. Ron's but I hate to spend the money if it's not my adrenals...is there a test for adrenal function? We are spending so much on food lately that I hate to go into testing and seeing a doc if I can figure it out on my own.

Anyway, the SCD kind of scares me (I have enough issues trying to prepare foods that the whole family will like, much less trying to eat a different diet myself) but I'm considering it. I tried to make 24 hour yogurt with raw milk but it flopped.









Any suggestions or questions are welcome! In the meantime, I'll just be reading along!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--I can just take the supplements, right, I don't have to give them to DD?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Caedmyn-how old is your dd? Mine was 15 months when we started and she got them directly. It will depend on age though...can't seem to remember how old she is.
MD-Phase 1, days 1-14
Foods to avoid:
Meat (Pork, bacon, ham, sausage, soy, ostrich, emu, veggie burgers)
Fish (fried fish, eel, shark, catfish, squid, shellfish)
Poultry (breaded or fried)
Lunch meat
Eggs (imitation)
Dairy(soy milk, almond milk, rice milk)
Fats (lard, shortening, safflowe, sunflower, cottonseed, margarine, soy, canola, corn-anything partially hydrogenated)
veggies (corn potatoes, white and sweet)
Beans (soy, black, navy, garbanzo, tofu, kidney, white, lima)
Nuts and seeds (honey roasted, macadamia, hazelnut, peanut, cashew, walnut, pecan, brazil, anything roasted)
Condiments (anything with sugar, ketchup, bbq sauce)
Fruits (everything avoided but:berries, grapefruit, limes and lemons)
Beverages (juice, alcohol, tap water, soda, pre-ground coffee)
Grains (all illegal)
Sweetener (honey, sugar, syrup, fructose, corn syrup, anything artificial)
Misc (whey protein, soy protein, rice protein)
Phase 2, days 15-28
Phase 3, days 29-40 and beyond
I'll type the lists for 2 and 3 when I get the time!


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Subbing, still healing and will update later-kids are calling...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--DD is 3 months, so too young for supplements I think. Are the doses you recommended the right amount for me to take?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Well, too young for MSM, you may want to think about zinc. My practitioners had dd on it from about one month because she was deficient (not eating or interested in doing so, fissures etc) I just put it in water in a tincture bottle and gave her 5 mg. a day. MSM for you would be about a tsp a day.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I bet she does have a zinc deficiency--I ate tons of unsoaked, unsprouted whole grains during pregnancy. I think I will start out supplementing myself first though, as I don't feel entirely comfortable giving her a supplement.

Thanks for copying the list of foods--you don't need to do the other lists, though. That's the same list as in the copy of the Maker's Diet I've got. For some reason I was thinking he had specific recommendations for leaky gut in another book.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Caedmyn- I would start taking zink yourself. I think http://www.schwarzbeinprinciple.com/pgs/shop/supplmnts/store_supplmnts.html She has liquid zink here. It also comes with instructions on how to test yourself for being low in zink and how much to take if you are.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I have a sour stomach all the time. I have no idea what it causing it. Anyone have any ideas for me?

The only thing I am taking that I'm not sure about is false unicorn root tincture. I take that 3x a day with meals. I just started that a week ago I think my stomach issues started before that (or never went away).


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Yes, you should definitely supplement! The test for deficiency is quite easy (it's a taste test...if you can taste it you are not deficient) and that would help. Let me know if you have questions about brands and things...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--this is what I got: Linquimins Ionic Zinc blend (has 50 mg zinc sulfate, 25 mg magnesium, 2 mg copper gluconate, 70 mg chloride, 95 mg sulfate, .15 mg lithium, and .1 mg boron)--it was the only liquid zinc I could find. I also got NOW 50 mg zinc picolinate capsules. There were so many different types of zinc and I have no idea what was best, so I just got a couple and I can take them back if they're not right. I couldn't find the brand you recommended. I also got NOW MSM powder, there's 3.6 g MSM in a teaspoon of it. It does have silica in it, also--I only found two powders and the other had a lot more ingredients. Do any of those sound okay?

I got some Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotics too--I definitely need a probiotic but I'm afraid to try any sort of dairy, so I figured I'd try these for a while and then try some goat yogurt.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

FWIW I would not do the capsules. They are harder to break down and harder to absorb. You want about 40-50 mg of zinc a day to begin with. then I would be going down to about 25 mg. The two brands of zinc I recommend are Scientific Botanicals and BodyBio. They are both just zinc sulphate in an aqueous solution. You may have to order online. In the mean time, yours sounds decent.

i don't know if you were aware, but www.vitacost.com sells garden of life products at (almost) wholesale. They are all about 35% off. It's the cheapest for the general public. There are other dairy free brands as well, I think www.pecanbread.com lists them. Kirkman labs definitely carries them.

The MSM should be fine. Good luck, mama.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Has anyone read Gut and Psychology Syndrome by Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride? I heard about it on an SCD list, and am intrigued. It supposedly outlines diet and supplements for leaky gut and candida, and I think it's SCD legal stuff. See http://www.behealthy.org.uk/


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Emma on the Pecanbread Yahoo list went to her last year... McBride's recs are detailed in her posts. Lots of animal fats. Different probiotics though, not SCD... that Emma's 2 kids did not tolerate well.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--how on earth did you get the zinc down? That stuff is nasty! I tried to put it in a smoothie but it just made the smoothie taste nasty.

I'm confused...a couple of people have mentioned something about there not being any point in eliminating symptom-causing foods when you have a leaky gut because your body just starts reacting to the foods you are eating. So if you (or DD in this case) are reacting to something you just keep eating it and eventually the symptoms will go away as your gut heals? This doesn't make sense so I must be missing something here.

JaneS--I posted a vitamin/mineral question thread in vaccinations for MT and she referred me back to you...here's the link http://www.mothering.com/discussions...te=1&p=4891665


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
JaneS--thanks for answering my questions. I have a couple more...

Is there anything else (supplements) I should be taking? I'm afraid to try cow yogurt now, so I think I am going to get the Garden of Life probiotics for now, and then try goat's milk yogurt if I can find any. I haven't found any at the two HFS's I've been to, and the only goat's milk they have is ultra-pasturized and I don't want to use it. I do have cod liver oil coming in the mail, too.

Is one capsule of DigestGold per meal/snack the right amount?

If DD has a yeast rash on her butt, would GSE or Candidase or something like that help her (or maybe just the probiotics)? It started as a weird reddish rash and then the yeast bumps popped up. Maybe it was yeast all along, I don't really know. Anyhow, the bumps are gone but the reddish rash, which was mostly gone, is back in full force. Sigh...who knew one little baby could be so complicated!

I would concentrate on you and your breastmilk, rather than giving yeast killers to such a young baby. GSE also kills good probiotics too.

I think coconut oil everyday, work up to it, would be a good choice since it will increase the lauric acid in your milk. I would just use coconut oil, cod liver, unheated olive oil, animal fats, avocados, nuts and nut oil for your fats. NO corn, canola, or soy oil or margarine.

Yes Digest Gold is strong, 1 is plenty. You might want to start with less than that.

Personally I didn't do well at all on the Garden of Life HSO's.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

caedmyn, I think that a lot of people have found that eliminating foods did just end up leading to more intolerances of the new foods, but in the case of celiac disease, you have to eliminate wheat/gluten and often dairy, because they do cause gut damage for celiacs. There may be other cases too, in which the gut wall is being damaged -- I would think anything that causes chronic diarrhea would cause gut damage, eg. if you get diarrhea when you eat almonds, you shouldn't eat them, etc.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Thanks, Jane, for the info about the book, you always are in the know. I haven't been able to do the pecanbread yahoo group because it's so busy, I get bogged down with tons of emails, even with it set to digest.


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

What is MSM?

Ds uses a creme on his excema called PURE MSM (10%). Is that the same thing as the powder MSM you are describing?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
firefaery--how on earth did you get the zinc down? That stuff is nasty! I tried to put it in a smoothie but it just made the smoothie taste nasty.

I'm confused...a couple of people have mentioned something about there not being any point in eliminating symptom-causing foods when you have a leaky gut because your body just starts reacting to the foods you are eating. So if you (or DD in this case) are reacting to something you just keep eating it and eventually the symptoms will go away as your gut heals? This doesn't make sense so I must be missing something here.

JaneS--I posted a vitamin/mineral question thread in vaccinations for MT and she referred me back to you...here's the link http://www.mothering.com/discussions...te=1&p=4891665

Brainchild liquid zinc doesn't taste nasty to me so perhaps that means I'm deficient and you are not!

Yes, that is generally true about leaky gut if you are not in the process of healing. It greatly depends on the food and what it does to the body. For example, if I continued to eat rice, potatoes, corn, grains, sugar... my gut never would have healed b/c they were fermenting, causing gas, bloating and more damage, exactly as explained by SCD science. I've never had a dairy allergy for example though, been drinking/eating it everyday and I didn't develop one.

Everyone is different and if you feel you are reacting negatively and its impeding your healing, then I would eliminate the food or foods. But it has to be an educated guess ykwim? It is hard!

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
MT you're the only expert I know, so I thought maybe I could ask you a few questions if you're not too busy, and I'm sure I'm not the only one confused by trying to pick out good supplements. I'm trying to heal a possible leaky gut (not sure if you're familiar with this or not) that is affecting my 3 month old DD in the form of apparent food allergies. I'd like to do some vitamin and mineral supplements, preferably natural source ones. These are the ones that seem to be most important as far as I can tell, and what seem to be the best sources:

Vitamin C--I did get some sodium ascorbate but now I'm thinking acerola powder is better...what are you thoughts on this? Is extra vitamin C good for healing in general, or just prevention?

B vitamins--nutritional yeast

Calcium--maybe coral calcium or bone powder (I don't think that's actually what it's called but I can't remember the right name)...I'd like to get all my calcium from food but I don't think I'll get enough that way

A&D--just started doing cod liver oil w/the natural vitamins in it

minerals--not really sure what a good source of minerals is. I was thinking of taking a good quality green food powder but I don't really know what they typically have as far as minerals.

I do eat lots of fresh fruits and veggies, I eat NT style if you're familiar with that (you seem to know everything so you probably are!).

Thank you thank you thank you (in advance)!

I never took a good source of calcium... the stuff I took while dairy free during bf'ing I wouldn't rec now. Now, I eat so much raw dairy I figure I don't need it and just supplement with magnesium. Firefaery's rec of Natural Calm mag is my current favorite, I can totally tell the difference in how well it absorbs.

This calcium suppl. looks interesting: http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/pr.../ct/3/pid/1057

Bone broths are excellent for calcium. I haven't verified this, but the info floating around native nutrition lists is that calcium content one cup of properly prepared bone broth is equivalent to a quart of milk. The minerals are all in easily absorbed electrolyte form with gelatin, also excellent for soothing and healing the gut.

(that reminds me, I need to add this to Cheat Sheet: The Healing Power of Bone Broths
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...23#post3942223)

So to a sister NT'er, bone broths are essential! Some soups or casseroles or sauces made with bone broths or demi glace everyday is a great NT practice to get into.

Amanda (Gale Force) has posted before about her particular kind of supercharged calcium from hooves or something but I cannot remember the name of it.

I personally wouldn't do a greens powder but I think Firefaery has recommended some last month.

I agree with MT, I would not do nutritional yeast at all with gut problems. I know some Bs are in liver. Some are produced by probiotics. I don't know much about supplementing Bs and I probably should.

See that link in Cheat Sheet for the WAPF Primer on Digestion and Nutrients Needed for a good checklist.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Thanks, Jane, for the info about the book, you always are in the know. I haven't been able to do the pecanbread yahoo group because it's so busy, I get bogged down with tons of emails, even with it set to digest.

No kidding!
I have about 800 digests in my email right now from them and the Enzymes and Autism list.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
Ok, here's a question for you all. I'm not even sure exactly what to ask, I'm bumfuzzled...








DD has some serious absorption (or lack of) issues. We started her on some Houston's enzymes. They seemed to be working great. (Her face gets a bit flushed some, what was it someone said about that?) Well, we were at family's for dinner and forgot the enzymes. She was not going to let us not feed her, so she ate like she normally would. The next day her poops were fairly normal. (A few undigested stuff, but nowhere near like before) So, I've intentionally left off the enzymes a couple of times and the same thing.







Pretty good looking poops. Is it possible to boost up like that? Or is it the probiotics I've been taking passing through to her?
I guess I shouldn't look the proverbial gift horse in the mouth, but COOL!



















Yes this means she is on the way to healing! Karen DeFelice mentions this in her book the same way... she forgot and noticed no reactions.

Face flushing can be a yeast reaction or a phenol thing.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
Ya'll take a look at this...
http://www.terressentials.com/truthaboutgse.html

So what else can I use to help get rid os yeast?







:

Yep! See Anti Fungals link in Cheat Sheet post #51 in this thread. I would start with enzymes: Candidase, Candex or No Fenol/Peptizyde combo given between meals as detailed on www.enzymestuff.com


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

Quote:

Yes this means she is on the way to healing! Karen DeFelice mentions this in her book the same way... she forgot and noticed no reactions.
YIPEEEE!!!!







I wasn't expecting this yet! WOOHOO!
Jane! Thanks so much! I just don't know what I'd do with out you and your great wealth of knowledge!


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

roll call... and some q's...

been lurking for a few weeks... i'm 27yo mama to 7mo ds. i'm thinking i may have leaky gut problems. i have some of the symptoms, acne and occasional indigestion. though i don't have any of the bacteria or yeast symptoms JaneS mentioned.

here's my history: raised in a very similar to nt way. when i got married at 20 i took birth control pills for 2 years, had one vaginal yeast infection during that time (none since). once i stopped the pills i suddenly had acne problems (even in my teens i had great skin). tried some topical stuff, no success. tried antibiotics for awhile, no success -only gave myself indigestion. took acidophilus and ate lots of yogurt, it went away (the indigestion not the acne). a couple years later, frustrated with the constant acne, tried the antibiotics again. took acidophilus and yogurt alot during and after. helped some while i took it, but the acne came back full force when i stopped.

_added: forgot to mention i have no fillings/rootcanals/cavities. just to rule out that as a cause. did have braces as a teen, does that metal do bad things to you like fillings?_

got pregnant and stopped antibiotics even though i was on one that was suppposedly 'safe' for pregnancy. i've never been comfortable with long term antibiotic use (even more so now!). during my pregnancy i followed the brewer diet- lots of meat, (pastuerized) yogurt, cheese and cottage cheese (i'm not fond of straight milk) and icecream :-(. also eggs, veggies, fruit, nuts and whole grains (not soaked though, gasp!). had a wonderfully healthy pregnancy, with no problems. i gained 60lb (have lost 50 of it so far). had a great, if long, labor and birth at home. ds was 9lb. 7oz. and very healthy! my eating went downhill fast after birth. i had some extra bleeding at the birth, found i had anemia, and then suddenly had some toxemia symptoms (pitted edema, high blood pressure). i immediately start eating (was so tired from anemia, i didn't feel like eating) and eating lots of protein. immediately felt tons better. ended up on blood pressure med anyway (my white coat hypertension may have had a lot to do with this), which i took for 3 months. i took floradix for 3 mo for the anemia.

oh, my acne has been almost gone since somewhere around 4 mo postpartem. i started taking additional zinc and pantothenic acid.

somewhere around 3-4 months i realized ds has a milk allergy (my husband has one). he would be stuffy, have red bumps on his cheeks, and a red ring on his butt. i eliminated all milk products and it went away. i am now eating yogurt and kefir with no problems, but anytime i eat cheese (haven't tried raw yet though) it comes back.

my ds is now 7mo (almost ebf, grandma gives him a little banana) and still very healthy and strong. he weighed 20lb at 6mo. he can sit himself up and is starting to crawl and pull himself up to stand. he's had one cold, but that's it. also, he is very calm and SO happy. people tell me all that time what a smiley guy he is. when i compare him to the ds of similar age of a friend of mine (who eats SAD, gives formula, vax's), her ds is 2-3 months behind in development.

i started nt 2 weeks ago. for my possible leaky gut i am:
eating yogurt or kefir everyday
clo everyday
started coconut oil
bone broths most days
soaked grains
sprouted bread

*is this good enough?* i really don't feel like doing the scd diet- it's SO restrictive. i am also working on severly reducing my white flour/sugar intake. which wasn't very much to start with. i'm not yet up to making my own bread so i'm buying Alvarado Niles sprouted bread. i hope that's good enough? they're a local co. thats sold in hfs around here. considering the mildness of our symptoms, compared with the experiences i'm reading here, i'm hoping my current regime is enough. how long will it take to be 'cured'? and how will i know?

R


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

forgot to mention...

i can always tell when grandma gives my ds banana... his poop is full of little squiggly things like in banana bread. does this mean he isn't digesting it properly?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

It makes sense that if you are still having problems with a particular food to eliminate it for a while so as not to put additional strain on your body (hopefully I'm interpreting that correctly), and then to try it again later. It would be easier if it were me that was reacting, then it would be fairly easy to judge how I felt on/off a particular food. But since it is my DD that is reacting, and I still haven't cleared up the initial symptoms, it is a lot harder. I guess I will have to wait at least until her symptoms clear up before trying to add any dairy, which I think is the food she has problems with. I really want to try yogurt or kefir since they are so highly recommended, but I would hate for them to cause her more problems. Is commercial goat yogurt any good? I thought I would try goat yogurt first but the only goat milk I can find is ultra pasturized, so I don't know if it would really do any good for me to make my own with it. Maybe there's some way to continue culturing store bought goat yogurt?

I do need to use more bone broth--actually I have a pot of chicken stock going right now..we'll see how fast I can eat that up. I do only use the fats you recommended, and I just got some Blue Ice cod liver oil yesterday--yuck!

I wasn't going to give probiotics or enzymes to DD, I was just looking for something I can take to help her out. I'm trying the Garden of Life probiotics since I feel I really need some probiotics, and since I don't want to do yogurt or kefir, those seem like the next best thing. I pretty much jumped right in to the enzymes, taking one (Digest Gold) with every meal/snack by the 3rd day. I'm not having any symptoms of die off, although I'm not sure if it is affecting DD or not--she's been a bit cranky during the daytime for the past few days, tired but not napping real well (not that she ever really does). Her night time sleep is still great though.

pookietooth--what are the symptoms of celiac?


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

*what is MSM??*


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Saccharomyces boulardii*
http://www.florastor.com/article.asp?id=1139

Quote:

Florastor® is proven effective:
Multiple double blind studies have shown that Florastor® (Saccharomyces boulardii lyo) helps with†:

Diarrhea you get while taking antibiotics, called Antibiotic-Associated Diarrhea
Acute/chronic diarrhea, this is the type of diarrhea you can get if you eat something bad or get an infection in your bowels (gut) from a bad bug (pathogenic bacterium).
Traveler's diarrhea, you get this while on vacation or traveling for your job if you eat something bad or get an infection in your bowels from a bad bug (pathogenic bacterium).
Clostridium difficile associated diarrhea, often called "C. diff" by your healthcare professional. C. diff is a bad bug that causes diarrhea. The bug lives in hospitals and you are only "at risk" if you go into a hospital for surgery.
Bloating and gas are sometimes caused by the high number of bad bugs in your bowels or gut. Taking a probiotic like Florastor®, can often help reduce the bloating and gas caused by the pathogenic bacteria (bad bugs).

Kirkman makes an SCD legal version.
http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/...0_Spec240.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Poking around some more today finding interesting stuff...

Univ. of Washington Division of Gastroenterology - The Gut Course

http://www.uwgi.org/gut/table_contents.asp

COMMON SYMPTOMS AND SIGNS IN GASTROENTEROLOGY

http://gastroresource.com/gitextbook...r1/Default.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

This irritates me about the above mainstream medical information... for example, gas 13.6 times a day is apparently considered normal. Perhaps it is common in this country of poor food choices that are unable to be fully digested, but it's not normal. I never have gas now!!!!

Quote:

9.2 Gas, Wind, Flatus page 16

9.2.1 MECHANISM

Farting is a physiologic excretory process. Normally, the gut contains 100 to 200 mL of gas. An average person on a normal diet emits about 1 L per day. We pass 50 to 500 mL a mean of 13.6 times per day, http://gastroresource.com/gitextbook...apter1/1-9.htm


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

MSM is a natural form of sulfur, it aids in the healing of hair, skin and nails. It does wonderful things for a damaged digestive tract.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

If enzymes are making my baby cranky, should I back off of them? She's been cranky since Monday which is when I started taking one Digest Gold with each meal/snack.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

caedmyn- Try quitting them for a day or two and see if tha fixes it. If it does you can try going slower. Just 1/2 a cap for a couple of meals the first day then 1/2 cap for all meals etc. Or you could get a milder enzyme. One with lower proteases to start and see if that works for her. You should be able to work you way up to the digest gold, it just may take more time. Have you read the low and slow method on enzymestuff.com ?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Caedmyn,

At least you just get cranky. I tried a sprinkling of Peptizyde in DS's juice this week... *not even* an 1/8th of a capsule. The teensiest tiniest amount. He basically flipped out about 2 hours later and didn't nap that day. A 2 year old on 8 hours of sleep/night only is so not fun.









Which really makes me want to







b/c I'm sure he needs the extra proteases, but I just don't want to have to go through that *ever again*, nevermind a week or a month or whatever to get him used to it.

I also think this homeopathic remedy is doing nothing at all. We cannot catch a break here.

(Sorry this turned into a "Poor me" session!







)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

BTW Digest Gold is approx. equal to 2 of Houston's Zyme Prime, it is pretty strong.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I was going to try the slow method but breaking the capsules in half seemed kind of messy...anyhow I didn't do it. I hope if I stop for a couple of days and then start with a lower dose she can tolerate it--the hfs only has digest and digest gold and I'm not allowed to order anything by mail this month (long story).

JaneS--I'm sure if DD was older I'd have more than cranky...she's normally really happy but the past few days ...well let's just say it's a good thing there's not a well nearby or I'd have been seriously tempted to drop her in!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yes stop for a few days. The enzymes do stay circulating in your system for a while too, it will give them a chance to clear out. This helped me when I had a similar hyper reaction from proteases. You can measure out a half onto a bite of food and click the capsule back together pretty easily.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peri Patetic*
A roll call seems like a good time to intro...

I'm considering the SCD and have been lurking along -- I don't have any specific symptoms of digestive trouble, but am pretty sure I have yeast overgrowth and past history would suggest a leaky gut problem. I had a c-section with my oldest and ended up with the dreaded c. difficile, which was a bear to get rid of. First doc did not want me to do vancomycin because she thought it was incompatible with breastfeeding -- second doc said no problem and gave it to me. Solved the c. diff but can't have been good for my flora overall! DS and I had a terrible time with breastfeeding -- long story, but it involved thrush, a bad latch that left me in pain, my trying an elimination diet with no success, and a near total lack of sleep on his part (which of course impacted my sleep). He was a difficult, cranky, non-sleeping baby/child, and now that I'm reading all this about leaky gut I'm guessing that could have been the problem. The funny thing is, I had thrush again with DD, and even did a course of diflucan for it, but she didn't have any problems like DS had. I did eat a much better diet during that PG though!

Anyway, as I said, I don't have digestive issues but I am so, so tired all the time, no matter how much sleep I get or how well I eat. We are easing into NT eating -- I thought maybe the fatigue was from eating too much sugar but having given up sugar, it's still a problem. I'm not eating much in the way of grains or other starches at all, mostly meat, lots of veg and fruit, some nuts, and raw dairy. I'm wondering about adrenal problems, or maybe yeast causing the fatigue. I've been taking Candidase as well as Digest Gold and some sea minerals, plus CLO daily, but no other supps. I'm thinking about ordering some adrenal gland capsules from Dr. Ron's but I hate to spend the money if it's not my adrenals...is there a test for adrenal function? We are spending so much on food lately that I hate to go into testing and seeing a doc if I can figure it out on my own.

Anyway, the SCD kind of scares me (I have enough issues trying to prepare foods that the whole family will like, much less trying to eat a different diet myself) but I'm considering it. I tried to make 24 hour yogurt with raw milk but it flopped.









Any suggestions or questions are welcome! In the meantime, I'll just be reading along!









Welcome

Personally I saw great difference in fatigue/energy when healing started taking place. I think the toxins that yeast/bacteria has something to do with it. And the interference with absorbing nutrients. Also die off can indeed cause enormous fatigue. One thing I think I noticed when vacillating about going on the diet, then not, then on again... was cyclical die off. I just kept increasing the bugs and killing them off again. Not a good feeling.

I don't know much about adrenal issues. I probably should though b/c my DS is obviously running on empty half the time. If you find anything good please post!

How did the yogurt flop? Raw milk yogurt can be strange textured.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vaquitita*
forgot to mention...

i can always tell when grandma gives my ds banana... his poop is full of little squiggly things like in banana bread. does this mean he isn't digesting it properly?

Well yes, these are the fibers from the black middle section of the banana. He is so young and his digestive system is just starting to develop and produce enzymes so unless he is gassy or gets a diaper rash I wouldn't worry about it.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vaquitita*
roll call... and some q's...

been lurking for a few weeks... i'm 27yo mama to 7mo ds. i'm thinking i may have leaky gut problems. i have some of the symptoms, acne and occasional indigestion. though i don't have any of the bacteria or yeast symptoms JaneS mentioned.

here's my history: raised in a very similar to nt way. when i got married at 20 i took birth control pills for 2 years, had one vaginal yeast infection during that time (none since). once i stopped the pills i suddenly had acne problems (even in my teens i had great skin). tried some topical stuff, no success. tried antibiotics for awhile, no success -only gave myself indigestion. took acidophilus and ate lots of yogurt, it went away (the indigestion not the acne). a couple years later, frustrated with the constant acne, tried the antibiotics again. took acidophilus and yogurt alot during and after. helped some while i took it, but the acne came back full force when i stopped.

_added: forgot to mention i have no fillings/rootcanals/cavities. just to rule out that as a cause. did have braces as a teen, does that metal do bad things to you like fillings?_

got pregnant and stopped antibiotics even though i was on one that was suppposedly 'safe' for pregnancy. i've never been comfortable with long term antibiotic use (even more so now!). during my pregnancy i followed the brewer diet- lots of meat, (pastuerized) yogurt, cheese and cottage cheese (i'm not fond of straight milk) and icecream :-(. also eggs, veggies, fruit, nuts and whole grains (not soaked though, gasp!). had a wonderfully healthy pregnancy, with no problems. i gained 60lb (have lost 50 of it so far). had a great, if long, labor and birth at home. ds was 9lb. 7oz. and very healthy! my eating went downhill fast after birth. i had some extra bleeding at the birth, found i had anemia, and then suddenly had some toxemia symptoms (pitted edema, high blood pressure). i immediately start eating (was so tired from anemia, i didn't feel like eating) and eating lots of protein. immediately felt tons better. ended up on blood pressure med anyway (my white coat hypertension may have had a lot to do with this), which i took for 3 months. i took floradix for 3 mo for the anemia.

oh, my acne has been almost gone since somewhere around 4 mo postpartem. i started taking additional zinc and pantothenic acid.

somewhere around 3-4 months i realized ds has a milk allergy (my husband has one). he would be stuffy, have red bumps on his cheeks, and a red ring on his butt. i eliminated all milk products and it went away. i am now eating yogurt and kefir with no problems, but anytime i eat cheese (haven't tried raw yet though) it comes back.

my ds is now 7mo (almost ebf, grandma gives him a little banana) and still very healthy and strong. he weighed 20lb at 6mo. he can sit himself up and is starting to crawl and pull himself up to stand. he's had one cold, but that's it. also, he is very calm and SO happy. people tell me all that time what a smiley guy he is. when i compare him to the ds of similar age of a friend of mine (who eats SAD, gives formula, vax's), her ds is 2-3 months behind in development.

i started nt 2 weeks ago. for my possible leaky gut i am:
eating yogurt or kefir everyday
clo everyday
started coconut oil
bone broths most days
soaked grains
sprouted bread

*is this good enough?* i really don't feel like doing the scd diet- it's SO restrictive. i am also working on severly reducing my white flour/sugar intake. which wasn't very much to start with. i'm not yet up to making my own bread so i'm buying Alvarado Niles sprouted bread. i hope that's good enough? they're a local co. thats sold in hfs around here. considering the mildness of our symptoms, compared with the experiences i'm reading here, i'm hoping my current regime is enough. how long will it take to be 'cured'? and how will i know?

R

Hi









Yeah, your intestinal flora has been beaten down by the bcp's and antibx for so long. So therefore, maybe the flora your DS got wasn't so strong and that is why the dairy allergy.

Yogurt and kefir beneficial bacteria predigests the proteins, so that is why you maybe are seeing problems with cheese only, which is not predigested. Raw milk proteins are not packed together like pasteurized so it's possible your system could handle it but it's hard to know ahead of time.

I'm not sure about which bread is good or not. I do know that WAPF has a 2006 shopping guide out that lists all grocery store and mail order products that it recommends, might be worth getting. Or posting in the NT Mamas thread for recs.

Is your diet a good one? Yes.
Will it heal your gut? I don't know! It's so hard to predict with an individual. I'm doing fantastic, my DS is not.

Especially since you have no digestive symptoms to gauge your progress. I think for your DS it would important to try to follow SCD for his gut flora. No grains, none of that horrid baby cereal. Start solids with fruits and veggies, egg yolks and meats. No Tylenol/Advil. Just watch him closely. Calm and happy and developing well pretty much speaks for itself!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, the Kirkman probiotic link you sent says not to use it except under the care of a professional. I don't really have one right now. Think it's super strong? It says you might get an allergic reaction to it. What would a medical person be able to do?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Hey Jen,

I think they are just covering their butts. Honestly I'm so disallusioned with "professionals" right now. (but then again, I am with myself too so take that with a grain of salt!) But I think it's possible to figure out some stuff on your own given enough research that sometimes prof's don't do.

My impression is that S. boulardii is in wide usage in Europe. And here with AIDS patients. At first Elaine G. said that since it was a yeast she didn't recommend it for cross reactivity. Then she did recommend it for bacterial issues citing success with AIDS patients.

But it might be worth it to look around the ASD parents groups for data and experiences. I keep meaning to do this but have other projects on my plate right now. So maybe if you find a little and post I will be reminded...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Has everyone noticed that the CHEAT SHEET has been stickied at the top of the H&H forum?

I will continue to update that version, added a new link this morning.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

More on S. boulardii
http://www.drhoffman.com/page.cfm/169

Quote:

One of my favorite good guys of the gut is actually "good yeast". Sacchromyces boulardii is good yeast that has been studied extensively for intestinal diseases and symptoms of IBD. It is wonderful for controlling diarrhea, especially if Clostridium difficille is the cause. Saccharomyces boulardii releases a protein that interferes with the binding of toxin A secreted by C. difficile to its receptor.

In a randomized placebo-controlled trial, Saccharomyces boulardii in combination with vancomycin or metronidazole reduced the relapse rate by 50% and was well tolerated.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Interesting blog on probiotics with good links out. I've never heard the "HSO's can contain metals" reference. He also says Primal Defense contains iron, which can be trouble for a damaged gut.

http://www.patsullivan.com/blog/2005...tics_supp.html

Quote:

Having used many probiotic supplements with little success, I learned the hard way that the only way probiotics really work are with very high quality, high doses of just a few proven human strains of friendly bacteria. Also, I learned to HATE FOS because it caused me so many GI problems. And, I don't want ANY heavy metals in any supplement I take...soil Based Probiotics can have problems with heavy metals depending on the source of "dirt"! Who needs a lot of lead?
He writes a lot about amalgam fillings and the autism mercury connection too.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

This is the non dairy probiotic I would do instead of Primal Defense if you are not following SCD:
http://www.papanature.com/store/Prod...&pid=EFI-12125

If you are going SCD I think the only non dairy acidophilus is at Kirkman.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Ditto. Primal Defense is a great product, but although J.R. healed himself with a similar product HSO's aren't always a good idea for a compromised gut. Later on it's a great supplement. We had luck with the one from Kirkman Labs.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks, Jane for all your hard work! Sure makes it less intimidating for beginners.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Thanks, Jane for all your hard work! Sure makes it less intimidating for beginners.









thank you

I just was about to post...

_*I'm not answering any more questions 'til I get feedback on the Cheat Sheet*_









And like I said before if there's any suggestions or basic things that people wonder about that I didn't include, please let me know. I'm so in the middle of this that I sometimes can't see it from a newbie's eyes.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*I Need Help*

Anyone have experience with the Acid/Alkaline balance?

I think that DS is overacid. I'm worried how this relates to the calculus on his teeth... acidic saliva is primarily the cause b/c it contains an excess of calcium.

I've found a very interesting article from the Price Pottenger foundation on the calculus issue. Apparently the key is certain saturated fats in the bloodstream, that clear the blood of acid, not just having an alkaline diet of mostly produce as some people think since the body has it's own controls.

Quote:

In the early 1900's a dentist named Dr. Waters noticed that, without exception, every diabetic and cancer patient he examined, along with the majority of those with chronic diseases, had an unusually heavy buildup of calculus and evidence of gum disease. Those with dentures would have a heavy deposit of calculus on the dentures. Dr. Waters concluded that in these patients the bloodstream was slightly acidic, helping to foster the development of cancer and other diseases. One of the symptoms of this systemic acidosis was that the saliva made from acidic blood allows solids to precipitate and form tartar or calculus deposits on the teeth.
The treatment he devised was to give these patients a supplement of ox bile, and by this means he was able to completely eliminate the calculus formation. Bile salts are highly alkaline. - Dr. David G. Williams, Alternatives, June 2001.
Interestingly enough, when I kept researcing the acid issue: bacterial inactivation of bile salts kept coming up. Which effects lipid digestion. And (drumroll) sugar digestion and the "deconjugated" bile salts themselves are quite toxic. And (another drumroll) causes diarrhea.

It would seem impossible to do an alkaline diet plus SCD. And DS still doesn't tolerate a lot of fruits and veggies either. And I'm now concerned about his liver b/c of all this overwork. How to test that best?

My head is seriously ready to explode here.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Jane-short on time...it actually is very doable-we did it because I really believe in the benefits. I'll write more in a bit (I have visitors showing up.)


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Jane- I was very acid and took a homeopathic to correct it. I'm trying to remember what it was now... Actually it may have been a cell salt. My dr likes the cell salts a lot. DD was on the same one. Have you looked into trying the butter oil on your ds? It has something in it that is supposed to specifically help with leaky gut. I forget the name right now.

Thanks for the cheat sheet. It is a huge help.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yeah I have the butter oil and wasn't sure if it was making his stool looser or not so of course I pulled it. This is the problem, I pull stuff and then wait for a "good time" to reintroduce and that day never comes. I honestly cannot tell what he reacts to sometimes.









He's on a constitutional remedy: Sulfur. It's doing less than nothing after almost 2 weeks. I'm just so flippin' irritated about all this right now!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

jane, the liver thing is the easy part. It's just a blood test, if it's under any strain at all it will be dumping enzymes. It's very standard-not something you need to go to yet another lab for. If it was a problem there is SO much you can do about it. Liver support is not difficult.

The body does have it's own controls, that's true. But dietary changes can sort of re-activate the body's natural "tendencies." It's a good place to start. Homeopathy can help too, but it sounds like you aren't having great luck with your practitioner? Do you know which sulfur he's on?

I don't know how picky your ds is. Will he drink lemon water?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

My chicken stock didn't gel







I've made it lots of times before and it always gelled but this one didn't at all. I bought a "natural" chicken from the hfs (different brand than before) and I guess it was no good. That makes me mad--I spent like $13 on that chicken and paid full price instead of waiting for a sale because I wanted to get some good gelatin in me. I guess I'll try beef stock next time--oxtail is supposed to have gelatin in it, right? I can only get marrow bones so I got some oxtail, too.

DD was back to normal yesterday so I started up the enzymes again, more slowly this time. How do I know if she has diarrhea...EBF baby poop is so runny anyway I don't know if I could use that as a sign of her reacting to something.

I tried those Midas gold pancakes today w/added cinnamon--that was good! Til now I've been sticking with raw (crispied) almond and almond butter to preserve the enzymes but I decided to try cooking with it. I guess right now I'm kind of doing a combination of Maker's Diet and SCD--following the Maker's Diet recommendations for foods, which are all SCD legal right now I think, but eating raw stuff. Next week I get to add the rest of the fruit back in, except bananas, and the rest of the nuts. I'm supposed to be able to add in starchy veggies, too, but I think I will leave them out for another couple of weeks. I'm hoping to get enough healing done on the first 2 stages of the Maker's Diet to be able to avoid going on the SCD...plus I am bound and determined to use up the $35 bottle of Garden of Life probiotics I bought and already opened and I know it's not SCD legal.

I did get some kefir grains in the mail yesterday--has anyone tried making kefir w/juice? I was thinking maybe I'd start with that in a few weeks...since they're milk grains would that contaminate the juice with dairy? If I used store-bought organic pineapple juice, would that be okay--I know it will be pasturized, though. I suppose I need to find a refrigerated version because the shelf stable ones are probably ultra pasturized. I don't have a juicer...maybe I can mush the fruit up in the VitaMix and then squeeze out all the juice.

Is there any way to keep from losing weight on this diet? I've lost an average of 1/2 pound per day so far, even with eating a lot, and I didn't have any weight to spare.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, I am also thinking about the whole acid/alkaline balance thing, particularly since ds and I have major tooth decay. I would love to see a list of SCD legal alkaline foods. Where would one get the bile salts, anyway? I am sure that my and ds's livers are overworked, just because of the dark circles (mine keep getting worse, I really have a couple of shiners going on) and blue areas around the inside of my eyes along the bridge of my nose (and his). As far as the sulfur, is your homeopath having you put the pellets in spring water then take some of that and put it in some more spring water, then use the resulting liquid? Or taking the pellets? Sounds like voodoo in a way. Haven't tried it myself yet, still looking for a good homeopath who can guide me on it. Oh, and the sticky is great!

Firefaery, what is the liver test? Can a naturopath order it?

To the person who posted the schwarzbein principle link (it was for zinc): I read her book a few years ago when I was ttc, and at the time, her diet, which involved cooking all your foods yourself (!) sounded too complicated, so I abandonded it. I ended up using fertility drugs instead, basically, and now I'm feeling bad because maybe if I'd fixed my diet in the first place, I would have been able to conceive naturally, and maybe ds wouldn't be so challenged (can't think of another way to put it). Maybe by going with drugs instead of fixing the problem, I caused a baby to be conceived in a body that wasn't fit to carry a child? Maybe all his problems are my fault! I am feeling a bit depressed today, can you tell? That said, I looked at the book Fertility, Cycles & Nutrition, and the author says to be fertile you need to get 50% of your calories from complex carbs, and to eat low fat!

I am feeling like the SCD is not working for us, in that I just don't have the energy to make all the foods that are yummy to eat and easy to eat, and ds is ending up eating raisins instead, and making his yeasties go crazy (he actually acts really wacky). Sigh.

To top it all off, found out that at a new church group that dh and I attended, the husband who was hosting the get together followed dh around every time he left the main room where people were chatting, making dh feel like a criminal or something. Yuck! I know my thoughts are acidifying today!


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

So I went on SCD about a month ago, to a false start because of "marital issues" re: the diet! I was basically on SCD about 90-95% after that, until I got my act together with my milk source etc.. Then about 10 days ago, I staterted SCD with "fanatical adherence". My DP has expressed his strong opinions against me doing this diet, especially since this time both the kids are on it as well.

Today, he finally said that he feels I should be doing this along with the watchful eye of a doctor. I admit I haven't seen a health practioner (for general check-ups etc) in 5 years (apart from pregnancy related -- Ob/gyn the first time, Midwife the second, but they don't really count nutrition-wise). Basically I've done all this self-diagnoses and my DP doesn't think I should be experementing on myself (and our kids) like this. I told him about how this diet can't harm anyone, but I kind of feel he has a point that perhaps it'll be in our family's best interested to have a practioner follow our progress.

My DP did say that perhaps having a doctor will help this animosity that has developed between us as a result of my fanaticism to SCD. I've been telling him that I wanted to get tests just to show him the shape I was in wasn't great, but he'd just roll his eyes at me. I'm happy this recommendation is coming from him, because this time I'm actually just going to see a Naturopath (or should I see someone else?) and get the tests, and see how SCD fits in to our lives after that.

I'm going to continue with SCD since I've had great results so far -- for myself and Galen (which my DP thinks could just be all coincidence!). We'll see what the new doctor will have to say.

Any input, thoughts and ideas would be greatfully appreciated


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Siana, I think that if you find a doctor who will support SCD, it will definitely help your relationship, although your dh really should support you regardless (but I know how they are). There is a website where you can find SCD friendly doctors. It's run by a woman named Gay Bauer, she's on an SCD list I'm on. The url is http://www.scdiet.net/


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## Peri Patetic (Feb 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*







Welcome

Personally I saw great difference in fatigue/energy when healing started taking place. I think the toxins that yeast/bacteria has something to do with it. And the interference with absorbing nutrients. Also die off can indeed cause enormous fatigue. One thing I think I noticed when vacillating about going on the diet, then not, then on again... was cyclical die off. I just kept increasing the bugs and killing them off again. Not a good feeling.

Thanks for the welcome, Jane! I've noticed in past threads that you are a fountain of wisdom.









Yeah, I think that it might be die off. I stopped taking the Candidase for now (b/c I'm not doing the rest whole hog and because I keep forgetting to take it) and the extreme fatigue is gone. I guess I will have to psych myself up to go through the fatigue stage and be really conscientious about taking the C and other stuff.

Quote:

I don't know much about adrenal issues. I probably should though b/c my DS is obviously running on empty half the time. If you find anything good please post!
I'm going to go see a local doc (DC and nutritionist) who is heavily into NT and works on all kinds of gut issues/fatigue/adrenals/yeast/etc. I'll see what he says.

Quote:

How did the yogurt flop? Raw milk yogurt can be strange textured.
Well, I ended up with a small layer of something like yogurt on the top, then mostly yellow liquid (whey?) and then some curdy-looking yogurty like stuff on the bottom. I know it's supposed to be a bit watery but this didn't seem right at all. It smelled and tasted very yogurty but geez, more than half of it was liquid. I checked the temp of the yogurt though at the end and it was at 120 degrees, so I think the yogurt maker runs hot. I'm trying again right now with the lid propped a tiny bit open...third times the charm? Anyway, this time I started with raw milk right out of the fridge. Someone on my local yahoo NT list shared her method and she starts with it cold. Previously I had heated the milk to 110 the first time and 100 the second time. It's so frustrating to have to wait a full 24 hours to check it! Actually, I will probably let this go a bit longer than 24 hrs. since I started from cold.

I'll let you know tomorrow afternoon if it turned out! If not, I think I will try the oven method.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

DD had blood in her poop again today







I haven't had any dairy in 3 weeks except for a tiny bit of butter 1 week ago and possibly some hidden dairy in Mexican food 2 weeks ago. Is it possible that there is still enough dairy in her/my system to be causing this? Or is there another food she's having problems with? Or can the leaky gut alone cause this?

If it's another food I don't know what it could be except eggs--pretty much all I've eaten for the past week are veggies (no starches), berries, juiced lemons, lentils, almonds, and eggs, oh, and meat. I don't think she would be reacting to the almonds because before I only ate them once in a blue moon, so I guess it would have to be the eggs if it's anything. I don't see how I can do this without eggs, though, especially since I can't do dairy.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Is there any way to keep from losing weight on this diet? I've lost an average of 1/2 pound per day so far, even with eating a lot, and I didn't have any weight to spare.
I was worried about the weight loss thing too. I think I may have lost some in the beginning but am now maintaining at a good weight for me.








I did read somewhere (wish I could remember where) that the SCD is good for both people who need to lose and maintain weight. So far, it seems to be true for me.

Before babies, I tried everything to keep the weight on. People told me to eat bananas, eat peanut butter, drink malted milk shakes, blah, blah. I wish I had known about this healing the gut thing when I was in my 20s!

Sorry about your dd. You should get her in to a doc. I have no experience w/blood in stools but if you've been dairy-free for that long, I'd bet the cause is something else.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Absolutely it can still be dairy. Don't get into the head game of thinking that you must have cheated or had a tiny bit here or there. A).it only takes a tiny bit, B). damage does not get fixed overnight. Whatever caused her to bleed is still going on in terms of tissue damage. That takes a long time to heal. C). dairy proteins can take 6 weeks to get out of the system. If you suspect dairy you need to be "fanatical" (word gets used more on this thread than anywhere, but for good reason.) Dairy may have started the damage, but once it's done so many other things can aggravate it. I know it isn't an easy answer-we were there. That's what the SCD is for though. To deal with any problem food no matter what. You may want to think about gluten if you haven't already...

Pookietooth-the method you are describing is called "plussing" and should never be done without the say so of the doc. That's a quick way to get yourself dropped as a patient. It's the same as deciding to take ten prescription pills instead of one-it increases the dosage of the remedy. granted, it won't hurt you, but it could make things very uncomfortable for a long time if it is the right remedy.
The liver test is a simple panel. It's something that's routinely done in adult bloodwork and would have to be requested for kiddos. It just measure the different enzyme levels. If they are elevated it indicates the liver is working overtime or is damaged-depending on the #'s.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Re: diet. The SCD is so nutrient dense and full of calories! I would say if you're losing and don't have weight to lose it's because your body is replacing unhealthy tissue with healthy tissue. Dr. Joel Furman discusses this in his nutrition books. If you've had a poor diet and built your body with inappropriate foods you will lose the weight-even to the point of getting skinny-and then replace the weight with healthy tissue. HTH. I believe this was discussed on the NT thread (similar diets that they are) I think it would apply.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I know absolutely I haven't had dairy other than those two times...I haven't had any grains for the last week, so unless there's gluten in something other than grain that has been eliminated.

As far as the SCD, if I do switch to it instead of the Maker's Diet, should I just go exactly the way it recommends, 24 hr yogurt and all, or should I hold off on the yogurt for awhile? It seems like there isn't really enough info for me on the various websites. Maybe the book has more info...I have a copy on hold at the library but I think there are a few people ahead of me to get it.

When I'm starting enzymes, how do I know how much is too much for DD (as far as her reacting to what I'm taking)? Should she not have any reaction at all? Is a reaction of crabbiness ok (to whatever level I can tolerate it) if there's no poop changes in her?


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

caedmyn-maybe you should try to cut out eggs to see. DD and I react to them. They totally throw off our digestive system. So no eggs for us. And yes it makes it a little trick, but not too bad. I feel for you though tyring to figure this out. Why does it have to be so hard







:

Well, this was day 3 (for the 3rd time around!). It is so darn hard to just eat chicken and broth and yogurt all day long. Today especially we were at my sister's b-day party. So much temptation and no-nos there. Overall I think we did great. I cheated with some raw carrots, celery, and olives. (oh and a glass of wine). DD did great until her and her cousin walk into the living room munching on chips!!!

So today I ate grilled hamburger patties and introduced green beans. I feel like total crap. I forgot my enzymes so that's not a factor. My legs and ankles ache. I have sulphery gas and my stomach hurts. Do you think I can be reacting to meat or not digesting it properly? I remember the other two times I've started the diet (







) that I have also had gas those nights I ate burgers. Everytime was different veggies though so it could be the veggies.

Oh and JaneS your CHEAT SHEET ROCKS!! I looked at it the other day and just haven't had a chance to say thanks. That will help so many people and make it so much easier to get all the basics.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
jane, the liver thing is the easy part. It's just a blood test, if it's under any strain at all it will be dumping enzymes. It's very standard-not something you need to go to yet another lab for. If it was a problem there is SO much you can do about it. Liver support is not difficult.

The body does have it's own controls, that's true. But dietary changes can sort of re-activate the body's natural "tendencies." It's a good place to start. Homeopathy can help too, but it sounds like you aren't having great luck with your practitioner? Do you know which sulfur he's on?

I don't know how picky your ds is. Will he drink lemon water?

Thanks FF... I will add this to our list for the next visit with the Ped/Hom.
I want his minerals and Vit. D checked too so hopefully she can just add it on. Poor baby, will be first time he will be pricked since birth!
(horrible blood tests then)

OH S**T. I forgot to give him his remedy today. It's plain ole Sulfur.

He loves, loves, loves lemonade. So I should give that to him with every meal I'm guessing? Try to knock down the meat and up the nuts I guess. He already eats a lot of fruit and veggies. Most everything else he eats is pretty alkaline or mildly acid.

The other thing I've found is ginger stimulates bile and other things:

Quote:

Ginger offers numerous health benefits that have been demonstrated both historically and scientifically. *Because ginger contains 180 times the protein digesting power of papaya, and stimulates fat digesting bile as well as the growth of healthy intestinal flora*, ginger restores balance and potentiates proper digestive function.* These benefits contribute to ginger's ability to enhance the utilization of other dietary supplements. Additionally, ginger contains at least 12 antioxidant compounds and recent research in India, Denmark and Japan suggests that ginger modulates prostaglandins thereby promoting circulatory health and balancing the inflammatory process.* Our ginger juice is a full spectrum, organic extraction from ginger grown on our own farm in Costa Rica.
http://www.new-chapter.com/product/g...=32840&-search
Jen,
This is a pretty good site to check foods: http://home.bluegrass.net/~jclark/alkaline_foods.htm
Unfortunately a lot of books don't agree.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

firefaery, I didn't mean to suggest how to take the remedy (note I didn't give amounts), I was just asking if that's what Jane's homeopath was having her do or not. Thanks for the info about the liver panel.
Jane thanks for the link. I've noticed that about the websites not agreeing about acid/alkaline foods! I did notice beans are a no-no, which is fine for ds since he won't touch them, but bad for me, since I love them. Think soaking them with whey a la NT would help?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Jen,

The bile salts can be found at hfs or online, they are pretty cheap. Aka ox bile.

The thing about tooth decay though IMO is that the minerals and fat soluble vitamins might be more of a key according to WAPF's research.
http://www.price-pottenger.org/Artic...d_base_bal.htm

And since I do feel that way I'm still skeptical about this whole acid alkaline diet things. Because my gut is telling me it's my DS's minerals not be absorbed correctly and his digestion, like everything else!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Caedmyn,

I think the test is that if BF baby's poop smells good/like yogurt, is mostly yellow curds and doesn't give them diaper rash, then they are doing okay.

There is info on water and grape juice kefir and how to convert dairy grains at Dom's site:
http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/...#Kefir-d-acqua


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Jane~the lemon juice in water should be given a half an hour before every meal. It is so acidic that it shocks the body into alkalinity. It absolutely couldn't hurt, and will also aid in digestion and liver function.

Caedmyn~Gluten is in many things besides grains. I don't know what you've been eating so it's hard to say. But, just understand that it takes time for your body (and her's) to clear out allergens. One week isn't enough time to see a difference. Oh-and I did SCD dairy free-with no problem. If dairy is that big of an issue I would definitely hold off.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

The homeopath's instructions were to dissolve 4 - 30C pellets in 4 oz of spring water and DS was to take 1/4-1/2 teasp. every other day.

When I said to her that it wasn't working after a week, she said to shake it before giving it to him. Now I just screwed up our schedule today so who knows.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

hi--not quite caught up with the thread, but wanted to announce that we stayed on the diet in ny! woohoo! and i think i'm starting to understand it, altho i know i'll have lots of questions soon (trying to figure how to cook/introduce foods after zucchini seemed not to go too well with one dd). but i will thoroughly examine the cheat sheet first!

my girlfriend make the diet food look delicious. she also fiddled with the cheesecake and added 1/4 water with gelatin (gel added to cold water then simmered, then cooled and added to recipe)--pretty good, and gets gelatin into dds because they often won't eat the gelatin. also, they rarely take the broth (sometimes a sip or two) so i'm boiling carrots and then simmering in broth--i hope this is getting some broth into them. d'ya think?

pookietooth, i wish i had more time to write, but i wanted to say that i hear you about wishing i'd known about helaing the gut/nutrition before i got pregnant (thru ivf) too. but these babies *are* meant to be, and they're very lucky that we're finding out about this stuff now rather than later. or never.

don't have a lot of time, but why did i buy so many nuts to "start" the diet? it doesn't seem like we'll be up to nuts very soon, and i'm afraid they're all going to go rancid.

i see definite behavioral changes in my dds! i will post details soon!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I know absolutely I haven't had dairy other than those two times...I haven't had any grains for the last week, so unless there's gluten in something other than grain that has been eliminated.

As far as the SCD, if I do switch to it instead of the Maker's Diet, should I just go exactly the way it recommends, 24 hr yogurt and all, or should I hold off on the yogurt for awhile? It seems like there isn't really enough info for me on the various websites. Maybe the book has more info...I have a copy on hold at the library but I think there are a few people ahead of me to get it.

When I'm starting enzymes, how do I know how much is too much for DD (as far as her reacting to what I'm taking)? Should she not have any reaction at all? Is a reaction of crabbiness ok (to whatever level I can tolerate it) if there's no poop changes in her?

I think the enzymes can be a cause too. Karen DeFelice describes it like abrading a wound if the gut is still healing.

Watching your kid's crabbiness is a head game too! Can make you insane thinking, was it this, was it that....perhaps... the weather.







There's no hard and fast rule, you gotta just go with your intuition.

You can start SCD with nut yogurt, the cashew yogurt at Pecanbread is pretty tasty. Not like yogurt, but not bad as a thick drink. If you ever do want to try dairy, it should be goat IMO.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

That's great Mehera!

I've had good luck with simmering down broth 'til thick and using as a sauce for meat for DS.

Nuts keep pretty long. They can be refrigerated if you are concerned about rancidity. I think pecans are the most fragile in this respect? Walnuts too maybe?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Thank you everyone for telling me how great the Cheat Sheet is... I was really just looking for suggestions, but I guess you can't improve on perfection?







:









I still keep thinking of things to add...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Peri Patetic*
I'm going to go see a local doc (DC and nutritionist) who is heavily into NT and works on all kinds of gut issues/fatigue/adrenals/yeast/etc. I'll see what he says...

Well, I ended up with a small layer of something like yogurt on the top, then mostly yellow liquid (whey?) and then some curdy-looking yogurty like stuff on the bottom. I know it's supposed to be a bit watery but this didn't seem right at all. It smelled and tasted very yogurty but geez, more than half of it was liquid. I checked the temp of the yogurt though at the end and it was at 120 degrees, so I think the yogurt maker runs hot.

Please do report back on the adrenal stuff. Good luck at your appt. His credentials sound interesting. Like www.drrons.com in CT.

Yeah, separated yogurt is what happens when it gets too hot. I did this once so that's how I know!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Jane thanks for the link. I've noticed that about the websites not agreeing about acid/alkaline foods! I did notice beans are a no-no, which is fine for ds since he won't touch them, but bad for me, since I love them. Think soaking them with whey a la NT would help?

Hmmm. The soaking removes indigestible sugars I know that, whether that makes a difference in how they are burned....dunno.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

7 weeks. Where has the time gone. We are finally tolerating some raw foods.







but I am going really, really slowly with them. No sense in messing up a good thing. Or not so good thing. The enormity of this is hitting me right now. I'm frustrated. After great progress with dd's sleep, nothing lately. I keep having to remind myself that
1. it was worse 2 months ago
2. she is cutting her molars and all bets are off untill they come in.

Oh and dd was sick on friday night. Our first opportunity to experience vomiting. It was loads of fun. I discovered that nothing from her supper eaten hours before was digested (blueberries, meat, watermellon, not sure what else). When it kept going on and on I called my Dr. I wasn't sure when it is a concern. He finally called back 3 hours later! In the meantime I found a remedies book and gave her homepathic ipecac. It seemed to work on the 2nd dose (either that or she was done). In any case no more vomit. She still seems off but it is hard to say if it is sickness or being completely messed up in the sleep department because the happened late friday night and we didn't get to bed untill after midnight.

Anyhow. Tell me about Kiefer. I know that it isn't fanatical adherance but I'm more concerned with getting better than I am with being a fanatic. Our big issue is yeast.

And what about coloidal silver? I need something other than the gse. I can get it down but I'll never get more than a drop or two at a time into dd.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
So today I ate grilled hamburger patties and introduced green beans. I feel like total crap. I forgot my enzymes so that's not a factor. My legs and ankles ache. I have sulphery gas and my stomach hurts. Do you think I can be reacting to meat or not digesting it properly? I remember the other two times I've started the diet (







) that I have also had gas those nights I ate burgers. Everytime was different veggies though so it could be the veggies.











Do you not usually eat a lot of red meat?
This sounds like me when I started eating it again after many years of being veg. I've heard you lose the enzymes to break it down and need to start with very small portions. Supplementing with enzymes should help. And help with die off too.

Who just said they are stopping Candidase for die off?

Enzymes are supposed to help with die off b/c they eat up the dead cells. They did for me. I used to be a Candex addict everytime I got thrush while bf'ing (too bad I didn't know as much then so that I KEPT taking the darned stuff).

Firefaery posted about using pascalite clay last month for die off. Also can use activated charcoal (only a few days tho) or bentonite clay.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

This is driving me absolutely nuts. Maybe I better stop the enzymes, too, until the bloody poop goes away. How else am I supposed to heal though? I guess I can do the probiotics instead. I wonder if I can make almond yogurt instead of cashew yogurt--I don't really like cashews, plus I have tons of almonds right now. Where do I get a non-dairy starter?

I guess I will cancel my raw cow milk share and get a raw goat milk share instead--I just found one today so I guess the timing is good!

Can someone tell me if my interpretation of the way to start the SCD is right...first the intro diet for a couple of days, then you are supposed to add cooked fruits and veggies one by one? I will seriously starve if I have to do that, especially since I can't do dairy. Or if the only digestive issue I have is gas, can I do the intro and then all SCD legal foods (except maybe the difficult ones likes cabbage)? I really need at least nuts to make it work, and it would be nice if I could use lentils, too--I can puree them and make pancakes if that would make them any easier to digest. Could I go ahead and eat raw fruits and veggies or is that bad?

If someone can give me a quick summary of how that diet is supposed to work that would be great...I've looked at the website several times, and the pecanbread one several times, but I am just not getting it.

firefaery--doesn't gluten only come from grains? I make everything from scratch so if it only comes from grains I am not getting any gluten. I'm eating veggies, eggs, honey, EVOO, coconut oil, salt, spices, lentils, almonds, berries, chicken/elk, raw cider vinegar, and lemon juice (fresh).

Thank you everyone for bearing with me while I try to figure this all out...I'm pretty sure at least a third of the posts on this thread are mine!


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
firefaery--doesn't gluten only come from grains? I make everything from scratch so if it only comes from grains I am not getting any gluten. I'm eating veggies, eggs, honey, EVOO, coconut oil, salt, spices, lentils, almonds, berries, chicken/elk, raw cider vinegar, and lemon juice (fresh).

You shouldn't be getting any gluten from whole foods you are eating. However some spices have gluten in them.

And for what it's worth, blood in poops doesn't have to be from a dairy allergy. It can be from any allergy.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
firefaery--doesn't gluten only come from grains? I make everything from scratch so if it only comes from grains I am not getting any gluten. I'm eating veggies, eggs, honey, EVOO, coconut oil, salt, spices, lentils, almonds, berries, chicken/elk, raw cider vinegar, and lemon juice (fresh).
My dd is *highly* allergic to gluten. Even the tiniest amounts in my b'milk will affect her. It took us quite a while to figure out that it was gluten and yk, it took a good 8 weeks or more to get out of her system. So ... it could be the dairy in your diet taking this long or the gluten . . . or . . .

Gluten is in EVERYTHING. PM me if you want a list of other names it can go by. It can be tricky when first starting to watch for it.

I know you're impatient. I was too. It wasn't until we did RAST testing w/dd that I found something out definitively. I just couldn't figure it out on my own.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Also, I recently read that Morton's Salt has gluten in it too.







:


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## vermontana (Oct 21, 2005)

I haven't had a chance to check this thread in a while...it goes fast. I've been wanting to thank you, Jane for the cheat sheet. It's helped clarify some things for me, and it's VERY helpful to have all those links, b/c I do NOT know how to navigate the internet!

Some ?s: can die off cause constipation? I was constipated for the first time EVER in my life two days ago. I usually have diarrhea/very loose, but Sat. I didn't have a single bm all day! Could this be a potentially good sign?
I have been doing the SCD for a week and a half now, but NOT w/ fanatical adherance. I didn't do any raw veggies until yesterday, when I had a green salad w/carrots, r.pepper and a small amt of broccoli. I think the raw greens, carrots and r peper were okay, but I don't think I can do broccoli at all yet (I also had some cooked last week, and it made me gassy). I've been doing cooked apples, and today did half a banana in a smoothie.

A TMI question: If I am seeing what looks like almond meal in my stool, should I cut out the almonds? I have been eating quite a few almonds (soaked/sprouted/slowly dried as per NT), and Maranatha almond butter. I think if I was being fanatical I wouldn't even be doing almonds yet, right?

Pookietooth (I think you brought this up a few pages back...sorry if I have the wrong person), about dark circles under the eye: I know that's an indicator of allergies, but I also know that dark circles, and esp blue/grey in the little indentations toward the bridge of your nose indicate kidney weakness/imbalance, as well.

It's been reassuring to read that a lot of allergens take a while to clear out of the system. I've been feeling like, "okay, why am I not seeing some changes?!". I know it's too soon, but it helps to be reminded. Right now I am hoping that I don't HAVE to go all the way to fanatical adherence w/the SCD (I know, I know, I'm a cheater). I am suspecting major gluten allergies, as well as intolerances to unfermented dairy, and I'm HOPING that after a while without those things and doing a mostly SCD diet, I'll be able to go back to raw fruits, more raw veggies, soaked legumes and more variety in what I can eat. I don't think I'll ever go back to grains at all (maybe some gluten free stuff someday, but I've committed to at least 6 months completely grain free, then I'll reassess).

Enough rambling from me. Thanks again, ladies for all your information and inspiration!!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Caedmyn- you can heal w/o enzymes. They just speed up the process. What about a low protease enzyme? those are supposed to be better tolerated.









Vermontana-constipation can be die off or a reaction to foods you can't tolerate yet.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Gluten really is in everything. We have celiac disease (both dd and I) and so we know first hand the damage it can do. PP is right, it can be used as an anti-caking agent in salt and spices. IT hides in many places-you are reducing your exposure by cooking from scratch. We can't even buy ground beef from sources we haven't contacted.

Another PP is also right. A dairy allergy is the most common reason for the blood deep in the intestines, but you don't have that. You have it further down which indicates cell weakness and can be any allergy.

The dark circles are a sign of allergy-but more specifically (from what I've read) a sign of mineral deficiencies due to lack of absorption. So they tend to go hand in hand. The blue across the bridge of the nose according to chinese medicine is a kindey thing.


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Quote:

He's on a constitutional remedy: Sulfur. It's doing less than nothing after almost 2 weeks. I'm just so flippin' irritated about all this right now!
To JANES.....Ds took Sulphur 30c to start.....the change first starts to be worse than gets better. Then ds took 200c once a month with 30c once a day for 30 days. This got his excema gone but then it showed up in his wrists and elbow crease.

Then we moved to Mezereum 200c once a month and 30c once a day. This worked the best. Then we only had excema on his wrist alittle bit and I thought it was going away when POOF it started going down his body with a vengence.

So, we saw a new homeopath and he gave him cell salts and a combo hoemepathic remedy with big names (I'll have to look it up for at a later time if you are interested). The new doc talked about carbo being stuck and fermenting in intestines and releasing toxins in his body. Hence, I have followed you to Healing the Gut!









Anyway, sulphur I think is the first remedy to try for excema but your doc should do better because you have an older child and they can get a better profile of the disease. When ds took sulphur, he was 4 months old. When he was 20 months old the homeo doc said she could better pinpoint the right remedy because his personality was coming into being. Hence, the disease changed to have to use Mezereum.

With the new doc, the remedies he gave also included PURE MSM Creme for his excema. Have you tried the creme?


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Quote:

The dark circles are a sign of allergy-but more specifically (from what I've read) a sign of mineral deficiencies due to lack of absorption. So they tend to go hand in hand. The blue across the bridge of the nose according to chinese medicine is a kindey thing.
The blue across the nose has me intrigued. My ds had this since he was born. My favorite chinese doctor ( Iwent to five different ones before finding her) never mentioned this to me. I HAVE KIDNEY CHI problems which I probably gave ds. I still see her about this. Ds went twice for excema but I found homeopathic remedies work better for him, even if they don't get rid of it totally.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

dd had the line from birth too.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

This is all very interesting about the blue line on the bridge of the nose. I have always had it. I thought it was just a vein. Someone else was saying it had to do with the liver. So is it kidney or liver or both? hmmm off to do some more searching

Oh and JaneS I eat red meat all the time. Never stopped. Totally a major meat eater!! Mayb e I just ate too much for my body to handle at one sitting? I ate 2 hamburger patties. Would this mean I have low acid and should I do anything about it or just eat smaller portions? I tried green beans for lunch today with chicken so we will see how that goes and then I can pretty much narrow it down to the meat or not.


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## 4Marmalade (May 4, 2004)

I hope no one minds me just jumping into this thread. I've lurked a bit but this is my first time posting. I haven't read all the posts yet either but baby dd is sleeping so I need to write this out now while I have a moment.

Short story....I'm dealing with excema and/or psoriasis on my hands and now arms. It's been steadily getting worse for the past 5 months. I have done a ton of research and have quickly become overwhelmed. But I think I have the basics down and have some solid ideas on where to go next. I had an appointment with a naturopath this morning and he made some suggestions. I'm hoping I can tell you all what they are and you can tell me what you think.

His first thought is that the excema/psoriasis is a syptom of a leaky gut caused by antibiotic use. I had antibiotics 6 years ago after a biking accident, 3 years ago for Group B strep during labour and delivery of ds and again during delivery of dd last May. He also suggested maybe hormonal related (but not likely), food allery or possible mineral deficiency.

Anyway, this is what he suggested I do:

Take acidophilus (12 million) along with L-glutamine 2 times a day
Eliminate dairy and soy from diet
Do mineral testing using a hair sample

Does all of this sound OK? I 'm pretty sure about the acidophilus but have no thoughts on the L-glutamine. It's like amino acids right? The mineral testing sounds good and he believes the hair sample route is the most accurate because it shows a more long-term picture. I'm OK eliminating dairy and soy and had thought about doing that anyways.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I think right now I need to wait until DD's bloody poops stop before doing any enzymes at all--otherwise I'm not going to know if the enzymes or food is causing it.

Would they tell you there was an anti-caking ingredient in the spices? My spices are either Spice Hunter (some organic, some conventional un-irradiated) or bulk organic. My salt is Atlantic sea salt--it says it has no additives and it clumps together, so I'm pretty sure there aren't any anti-caking ingredients in that. Actually quite a few of my spices clump together, too, now that I think about it. I suppose there could be some really well hidden gluten or dairy in the organic canned tomatoes I use--the ingredients are tomato juice & tomatoes, sea salt, citric acid, and calcium chloride.

Does anyone use kefir? I got some grains and someone recommended I try making juice kefir to get the benefits of it w/o any dairy. Or should I just stick to making nut or coconut yogurt?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
7 weeks. Where has the time gone. We are finally tolerating some raw foods.







but I am going really, really slowly with them. No sense in messing up a good thing. Or not so good thing. The enormity of this is hitting me right now. I'm frustrated. After great progress with dd's sleep, nothing lately. I keep having to remind myself that
1. it was worse 2 months ago
2. she is cutting her molars and all bets are off untill they come in.

Oh and dd was sick on friday night. Our first opportunity to experience vomiting. It was loads of fun. I discovered that nothing from her supper eaten hours before was digested (blueberries, meat, watermellon, not sure what else). When it kept going on and on I called my Dr. I wasn't sure when it is a concern. He finally called back 3 hours later! In the meantime I found a remedies book and gave her homepathic ipecac. It seemed to work on the 2nd dose (either that or she was done). In any case no more vomit. She still seems off but it is hard to say if it is sickness or being completely messed up in the sleep department because the happened late friday night and we didn't get to bed untill after midnight.

Anyhow. Tell me about Kiefer. I know that it isn't fanatical adherance but I'm more concerned with getting better than I am with being a fanatic. Our big issue is yeast.

And what about coloidal silver? I need something other than the gse. I can get it down but I'll never get more than a drop or two at a time into dd.

Yuck. Isn't Mama-hood _grand_! Hope all is better today.

Kefir, if specially cultured to remove all lactose (24 hrs with grains, then ripening another 24 hrs without) Elaine said was okay for advanced SCD'ers. It contains yeast, which although thought to be beneficial, could cause reactions. But similar to the theory of S. boulardii, yeasts crowding out candida.

I really can't tell you if it would help you. It did me before I did SCD but it didn't give me anything like a week or two on the SCD didn't top.

I would be cautious with all herbal "killers" ... their exact mechanism is so hard to determine with the data we have. Whether they kill bacteria or yeast or probiotics or both. That is why I'm so much more comforable with enzymes and especially for the little ones... are you taking cellulases and proteases between meals several times a day?

I personally am not giving herbs to DS or taking them without a stool test but that's just me right now. Because using Ech/Oregon Grape Root upon the advice of our ND made DS worse (and was impetus for me to kick her to curb). Our current Great Smokies stool test is supposed to tell us exactly what strains are senstitive to which herbs. I wish I could access their database!

I'm also nervous about collodial silver but it's supposed to be very good for bacteria per Karen DeFelice. She used it like a px antibiotic... 10 days between meals. I'm not sure about it's effect on yeast.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*





















This is driving me absolutely nuts. Maybe I better stop the enzymes, too, until the bloody poop goes away. How else am I supposed to heal though? I guess I can do the probiotics instead. I wonder if I can make almond yogurt instead of cashew yogurt--I don't really like cashews, plus I have tons of almonds right now. Where do I get a non-dairy starter?

I guess I will cancel my raw cow milk share and get a raw goat milk share instead--I just found one today so I guess the timing is good!

Can someone tell me if my interpretation of the way to start the SCD is right...first the intro diet for a couple of days, then you are supposed to add cooked fruits and veggies one by one? I will seriously starve if I have to do that, especially since I can't do dairy. Or if the only digestive issue I have is gas, can I do the intro and then all SCD legal foods (except maybe the difficult ones likes cabbage)? I really need at least nuts to make it work, and it would be nice if I could use lentils, too--I can puree them and make pancakes if that would make them any easier to digest. Could I go ahead and eat raw fruits and veggies or is that bad?

If someone can give me a quick summary of how that diet is supposed to work that would be great...I've looked at the website several times, and the pecanbread one several times, but I am just not getting it.


BTDT. Got the T-shirt.

SCD suggests all veggies and fruits be cooked at first until some healing has occurs. The reason being is that the cell walls are broken down by heat and thus the sugars inside them are easier to digest by a damaged tummy.

It is easier to go slowly introducting new foods if you have a really tough gut situation and/or a bf'ing babe b/c backtracking is a nightmare, trust me on that one.

Pecanbread has a chart of easier to digest foods under Food Preparation - Beyond the Intro Diet but that is just a suggestion.

Lentils are like beans, they must be soaked first, and then cooked in fresh water. And they are not really for beginners, they are pretty much along the lines of hard-to-digest of raw veggies.
http://www.scdiet.org/7archives/scd010.html

The only non dairy starter I know of is ProGurt from www.giprohealth.com
(which I'm not pleased about for use with dairy to eliminate lactose completely but that is another story...)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Vermontana,*

Yes, die off can indeed induce constipation.

I'm not sure re: almond meal in stool. Generally the idea behind SCD if you cannot digest it, it's harming your gut. But I know it's appropriate for normal stool to have some undigested fiber that is actually beneficial to intestines, so I think the key here would be whether it causes negative symptoms or not.

Nut flours and nut butters can be used right after the Intro Diet.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicholas_mom*
To JANES.....Ds took Sulphur 30c to start.....the change first starts to be worse than gets better. Then ds took 200c once a month with 30c once a day for 30 days. This got his excema gone but then it showed up in his wrists and elbow crease.

Then we moved to Mezereum 200c once a month and 30c once a day. This worked the best. Then we only had excema on his wrist alittle bit and I thought it was going away when POOF it started going down his body with a vengence.

So, we saw a new homeopath and he gave him cell salts and a combo hoemepathic remedy with big names (I'll have to look it up for at a later time if you are interested). The new doc talked about carbo being stuck and fermenting in intestines and releasing toxins in his body. Hence, I have followed you to Healing the Gut!









Anyway, sulphur I think is the first remedy to try for excema but your doc should do better because you have an older child and they can get a better profile of the disease. When ds took sulphur, he was 4 months old. When he was 20 months old the homeo doc said she could better pinpoint the right remedy because his personality was coming into being. Hence, the disease changed to have to use Mezereum.

With the new doc, the remedies he gave also included PURE MSM Creme for his excema. Have you tried the creme?

It's not for eczema specifically, it's a constitutional remedy. As long as he stays on cod liver and evening primrose oil and avoids cow dairy his skin is fine. His ankles still flare when his stools go all liquid, but that we can deal with.

I looked up Sulfur in the MM and some of it is not at all him... the forgetfulness for example, this kid has a brain like a steel trap.

I wasn't sure if today's dose didn't make him worse too (of course I missed a day too don't know what that did). Going down for naptime was a freaking nightmare. He was so fidgety and hitting me, we were both in tears.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Oh and JaneS I eat red meat all the time. Never stopped. Totally a major meat eater!! Mayb e I just ate too much for my body to handle at one sitting? I ate 2 hamburger patties. Would this mean I have low acid and should I do anything about it or just eat smaller portions? I tried green beans for lunch today with chicken so we will see how that goes and then I can pretty much narrow it down to the meat or not.

Yes definately... low stomach acid is hugely correlated with poor protein digestion as well as yeast/bacterial overgrowth issues. Maybe you could try Betaine HCI?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mama to one*
I hope no one minds me just jumping into this thread. I've lurked a bit but this is my first time posting. I haven't read all the posts yet either but baby dd is sleeping so I need to write this out now while I have a moment.

Short story....I'm dealing with excema and/or psoriasis on my hands and now arms. It's been steadily getting worse for the past 5 months. I have done a ton of research and have quickly become overwhelmed. But I think I have the basics down and have some solid ideas on where to go next. I had an appointment with a naturopath this morning and he made some suggestions. I'm hoping I can tell you all what they are and you can tell me what you think.

His first thought is that the excema/psoriasis is a syptom of a leaky gut caused by antibiotic use. I had antibiotics 6 years ago after a biking accident, 3 years ago for Group B strep during labour and delivery of ds and again during delivery of dd last May. He also suggested maybe hormonal related (but not likely), food allery or possible mineral deficiency.

Anyway, this is what he suggested I do:

Take acidophilus (12 million) along with L-glutamine 2 times a day
Eliminate dairy and soy from diet
Do mineral testing using a hair sample

Does all of this sound OK? I 'm pretty sure about the acidophilus but have no thoughts on the L-glutamine. It's like amino acids right? The mineral testing sounds good and he believes the hair sample route is the most accurate because it shows a more long-term picture. I'm OK eliminating dairy and soy and had thought about doing that anyways.

12 million is absolutely nothing for acidophilus supplementation to repair antibiotic use. Maybe 12 billion would start to help... what product was recommended? That is why I recommend homemade 24 hr yogurt b/c it has 15 billion per teaspoon (and it helped me when capsules didn't).

I would concentrate on your fats both supplementing and the fats in your diet, see The Eczema Tribe thread for my discussion on that.

There is evidence that l-glutamine helps repair the gut lining. I forget which link on the Cheat Sheet talks about it, maybe Dr. Galland's article on leaky gut.

I think enzymes are essential for leaky gut. Although do you have any digestive symptoms? I'm not sure all eczema patients have leaky gut?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I'm introducing one new food a week to dd's diet. (my 12 month old who's on SCD and allergic to gluten and intolerant to lots of other things.)

Here's what we've got:
bananas
pears
avocados
egg yolk
butternut squash
carrots

What should I give her next? I want to be sure she's getting a variety and even though she's still mostly b'fed, I want to be sure she's getting proper nutrition through foods too yk?

I've asked all you mamas this question before but needed to get your input again!


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## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I wasn't sure if today's dose didn't make him worse too (of course I missed a day too don't know what that did). Going down for naptime was a freaking nightmare. He was so fidgety and hitting me, we were both in tears.

























Time for the ND to listen to you and make a change.


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## 4Marmalade (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
12 million is absolutely nothing for acidophilus supplementation to repair antibiotic use. Maybe 12 billion would start to help... what product was recommended? That is why I recommend homemade 24 hr yogurt b/c it has 15 billion per teaspoon (and it helped me when capsules didn't).

Whoops. I meant 12 billion. He also mentioned that I could go much higher but that was what he thinks I should start with. He also mentioned because I am vegetarian I may be able to absorb the acidophilus better than some people. Not sure how accurate or true that is. Eating homemade yogurt (which incidently, I made for the first time this weekend) wouldn't work because I am also supposed to eliminate dairy.

Thanks for the input.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Jane-just wanted to check in and see how ds is doing...sorry it's so rough right now! You are increasing his dosage, so if you see things getting worse it may simply mean that you're seeing results. I always have about three to five days of hell that tell me my remedy is working-and I'm a grown up!

IF you choose to research the acid/alkaline foods let me know. There is so much info that isn't "out there." Small things that might make all the difference to you. Things like how different foods change qualities depending on where they are in the body (milk is alkaline in the stomach, but acidic to the tissues) Many minerals are alkaline forming to the tissues: calcium, iron, magnesium, potassium, sodium. Phosphorous, sulfur and chlorine are acidifying (interesting given his remedy.) Protein levels and amino acids also affect the alkalinity/acidity, but there are many other factors...like acids and sugars. Many foods are acid forming even if they are classified as alkaline. Like you need another headache! Sorry if this just throws another wrench in the works.


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## sarahariz (Aug 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
*Sarahariz*,
Didn't you do NAET? any tips? I need to read up on it.


I did go to an NAET practitioner, but dd was being exclusively breastfed at the time and her protocol was not going to work for us (having to treat me first so I could be a clean surrogate in order to treat dd through me). So I went to an NMT (neuromodulation technique) practitioner instead. It is supposed to be "better" than NAET. It seemed to help some, hard to know for sure.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

JaneS Re: Betaine HCL-- I am unsure of using this. I can't find alot of info on it.
http://www.worldchiropracticalliance...1996loomis.htm This suggests that it really doesn't work. And your link on the cheat sheet says using it wrong can hurt the stomach lining.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

Mama to One--I just wanted to add that I'm taking the l-glutamine 500 3x/day. i read in _what your dr may not tell you about premenopause_ that it was good for the gut.

i'm totally making up my own supplement program here. i haven't had enough time to look into enzymes and i think dh will kill me if i buy anymore supplements (tho he likes what's going on with all of us).

so, caedmyn, what i did was just to jump in and start on the darn diet with as fanatical an adherance as i could muster. i'm not often starving, but i am sometimes hungry. i feel i can't really be getting all the antioxidants and vitamins i need in this intro part. and i waver back and forth between thinking this is the best thing ever and that i'm really overreacting and just driving myself crazy because like jane said a few pages back, when you're (trying to be) paying attention to everything, you can go insane. like was the redness and slightly less formed stool a result of a yogurt banana smoothie (haven't had much yogurt since starting the diet) OR is it because we just took a long trip that had to be stressful for them and i left her diaper on a little too long. i guess what i'm saying is i'm having a lot of the same questions you seem to be having, but i really seem to be learning by doing.

That said, I am starting to be worried we're not getting enough nutrition right now. We're trying apples tomorrow (I had them tonight; no reaction except a deep desire for something crunchy!). Then I guess I'll wait a day and add zucchini (which I had over the weekend, but Lena had and had a brief rash which may have been coincidental).

Annikate--a very silly question (and no help, except that at 12 months I think that diet sounds very good--how about zucchini?)--the avacado--it's raw of course? I think i'll add that after the zucchini here. (Oh, blueberries were one of the first fruits i gave my girls bc they're so high in antioxidants; I think canteloupe is next--I guess you just bake these things?)

sorry to ramble; writing in fits and starts. please hope with me that we have no diaper issues tomorrow! i feel like i'm staying in the intro phase too long.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Nicolena I hear you on driving yourself crazy looking at the details







It's so hard when everything can be the same symptoms. Like I have gas and bloating-- is that die off or low acidity or reaction to foods or enzymes. I am not sure how to figure it all out. I guess if we are not having undigested food in our stools I should just say we are doing ok.

I had chicken and carrots (baked though not boiled if that would do it) for dinner with the enzymes and I still have horrible bloating and gas. Now just wondering if this is die off or I can't seem to digest any meats lately.

I am wary of teh Betaine HCL. ANyone have any good links for information? Or have you used it with success?

SO far I am doing the diet, enzymes, CLO and BO when I can remember. Anyone have any advice on what I should add next. If I am having malabsorbtion problems then should I bother with mineral supplements?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

nicolena ~ I forgot to add zucchini to dd's list. That was one of her firsts - though she dislikes it now!

artisticat ~ IMO mineral supplementation is important right away even if you are having malabsorption problems. It _is_ hard figuring this all out for yourself. I read Montezuma Tuatara's thread in H&H and tried to work out my own plan. I added CLO, magnesium, calcium, zinc, and selenium to start with.

For me, gas and bloating means I've eaten something I'm not ready for, OR if I'm sure the foods I've eaten were well tolerated, then it's a result of die-off.

Geez! YOu guys adding acid/alkaline foods to this mix is too much! I'm not going there right now. I have enough to worry about w/enzymes, supplements, and *fanatical adherence*.







I'll learn about this very slowly. . .

And for my dd: I was thinking of adding something green. Asparagus? Broccoli? (I'm a bit reluctant to add broccoli though. Just gut feeling.)


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I'm going to start the SCD tomorrow...I'm planning on doing one day on the intro diet and then about a week with only the foods on Stage 1 at pecanbread.com, and then adding all the foods on Stage 2 and see how I do/how long I can go like that. I'm really afraid of losing any more weight, though--I know I won't eat as much because there's not as many food choices. DD has been nursing a lot more than usual the past couple of days, and I really hope it is just a growth spurt and not because my milk is having problems. Hopefully I'll still see some results doing it this way--has anyone done it like this or does everyone just add the foods in one at a time?

How important is it to make sure there's no illegals in supplements? Like am I going to totally derail myself by taking the Garden of Life probiotics?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Oh, and does anyone know how quickly I could expect gas to go away? That's my only digestive sign and I don't know how I could even tell if I'm reacting to food if it doesn't go away...I'm not sure if I'll get any signs from DD, either...it kind of seems like since our problems are pretty minor (except for the bloody poop) it's going to be harder to tell if we're having problems with a food.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

i have no idea about the gas. i'm thinking perhaps it will just be here awhile? it's not severe for us, but it certainly still exists. i can't pinpoint it to one food.

the apples were a failure and the girls seem really tired of this food. i'm trying to act like that's just all there is.

QUESTION: i have blisters on one of my nipples like i haven't had since the frst few months nursing. they are the kind that turn into bloody scabs. i couldn't figure out what they were when i first got them (looking on kellymom and a twins bfing site). reading so much about thrush, i'm a little worried that somehow this is it,. but it really doesn't seem like it. has anybody had nipple blisters? (sorry if i should post this is bfing--just thought i'd see if it happened to anyone here first!) it is killing me!


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

Wow, this thread moves quickly!!!! I have a couple of questions...sorry if it was covered in the last months thread but I got really lost. Anyways, the SCD is okay while nursing right? DS is having reactions to many foods...and I am having digestive issues as well (canker sores, bad gas, stomach ache after I eat, weird BM's). I am hoping that if I go on the SCD, it will cure DS's problems as well. I have had a blood test to check for Celiac disease, but never heard anything back, so I assume I am in the clear. I have an ultrasound on Thursday to check my liver, kidneys, gall bladder and then next Friday I have an appointment with a dermatologist to check about my canker sores. Anyways, if someone can answer my question that would be great. Even if you could email me instead of posting it here....this thread moves really quick.

Angela
[email protected]


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Angela,
The SCD while b'feeding will only help your little nursling. I started SCD for my nursing babe. It has helped her TREMENDOUSLY. I can't say enough good things about it. PM me and I'll tell you the story. (When I get a chance that is!) DD was reactive to everything. Now she's doing so well - - she's like a different babe.

This diet will help all of the symptoms you listed. Don't know about canker sores though. Please post and lmk what the dermatologist says about them. I'd like to know.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Ok, so dd had undigested carrot in her poo this morning??? Does that mean she can't digest carrots? Or could the few chips she snuck the day before affect her like that?


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
The dark circles are a sign of allergy-but more specifically (from what I've read) a sign of mineral deficiencies due to lack of absorption. So they tend to go hand in hand. The blue across the bridge of the nose according to chinese medicine is a kindey thing.


Wow. Dd has had the blue across the nose as long as I can remember. What do you do to support the kidneys?


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
QUESTION: i have blisters on one of my nipples like i haven't had since the frst few months nursing. they are the kind that turn into bloody scabs. i couldn't figure out what they were when i first got them (looking on kellymom and a twins bfing site). reading so much about thrush, i'm a little worried that somehow this is it,. but it really doesn't seem like it. has anybody had nipple blisters? (sorry if i should post this is bfing--just thought i'd see if it happened to anyone here first!) it is killing me!

Are you having latch issues?
They could just be blebs. I've read about them some. They are basically like clogged pores. Here's a link to kellymom's advice. bleb

good luck.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Actually, ds and I still get gas, but I think we advanced too fast and need to backtrack, because he and I also get diarrhea, and this is after 6 months with only SCD legal foods (except for an occasional purchase of salted peanuts before I knew they weren't legal shelled, and only allowed unshelled six months after symptoms disappear!). I think we also have to do more enzymes, but zyme prime plus no phenol didn't seem to work but the Kirkman version of Peptizyde is too strong for us.
Jane, the link in the sticky about candida said it would take the same number of months to heal as years of symptoms -- for me that would be like 40, since I think it's been lifelong for me!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Starting a new supplement...Mindlinx by Pharmax. Anyone heard of it? It's a probiotic that specifically degrades gluten and casein proteins. Not that you can consume them-but in the event that you have accidental exposure it would really help. Different than enzymes, though. It is being used with great success for autism, ADD and celiac disease. I'm really looking forward to it! It also contains L Glutamine, but has FOS's and I'm not too sure about them. Gonna give it a try though.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Well I was hoping to hold off on introducing nut butter for at least a week, but I don't think I'm going to be able to do that. I'm barely functional today, just from lack of calories I think, and I don't think adding some applesauce and ripe bananas or zucchini is going to change that. So...which would be the best choice to try first nut-wise (this is what I have on hand and I don't go to the store until Thursday). Homemade peanut butter made from organic dry roasted peanuts, almond butter made from UNblanched almonds, or walnut or pecan butter...if it's even possible to make walnut or pecan butter.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Well I was hoping to hold off on introducing nut butter for at least a week, but I don't think I'm going to be able to do that. I'm barely functional today, just from lack of calories I think, and I don't think adding some applesauce and ripe bananas or zucchini is going to change that. So...which would be the best choice to try first nut-wise (this is what I have on hand and I don't go to the store until Thursday). Homemade peanut butter made from organic dry roasted peanuts, almond butter made from UNblanched almonds, or walnut or pecan butter...if it's even possible to make walnut or pecan butter.
Almond and pecans are supposed to be the easiest to digest I think, though pecans are not at all easy for me to digest. I do best with peanut butter but maybe you should try the almond butter first.

Angela, look at my blog. I just updated with our whole story (dd's that is!)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Jane-just wanted to check in and see how ds is doing...sorry it's so rough right now! You are increasing his dosage, so if you see things getting worse it may simply mean that you're seeing results. I always have about three to five days of hell that tell me my remedy is working-and I'm a grown up!

IF you choose to research the acid/alkaline foods let me know. There is so much info that isn't "out there." Small things that might make all the difference to you. Things like how different foods change qualities depending on where they are in the body (milk is alkaline in the stomach, but acidic to the tissues) Many minerals are alkaline forming to the tissues: calcium, iron, magnesium, potassium, sodium. Phosphorous, sulfur and chlorine are acidifying (interesting given his remedy.) Protein levels and amino acids also affect the alkalinity/acidity, but there are many other factors...like acids and sugars. Many foods are acid forming even if they are classified as alkaline. Like you need another headache! Sorry if this just throws another wrench in the works.

Thanks I'm going to do easy things first on the a/a issue then wait for mineral blood test and stool test for DS next. He tested high in sulfur on his hair test from last year too. Sulfur and mercury have big affinity for each other. Then depending on what holistic Ped says on all the tests do more a/a research (whew!)

DS is much better today but not great. I'm also trying to get more magnesium into him (thought it wasn't absorbing before and just making stools loose, so trying again...but that "should" calm him down shouldn't it? This kid is tough nut to crack.) Maybe it could have been too much fruit? The full moon?









I though remedies working meant everything was suddenly sweetness and light?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
JaneS Re: Betaine HCL-- I am unsure of using this. I can't find alot of info on it.
http://www.worldchiropracticalliance...1996loomis.htm This suggests that it really doesn't work. And your link on the cheat sheet says using it wrong can hurt the stomach lining.

I haven't seen that info before and I'm not sure what to think. I think the about.com site has a CYA statement but it was so good at explaining the deficiencies that is why I used that one.

If you don't swallow one of those horse pills immediately, and it dissolves a bit in your mouth, it is extremely acidic, so I'm not sure of the general premise of his argument that the formula is neutralized? And when I was using it, I used the recommendations by Michael Murray ND in his _Encyclopedia of Natural Healing_ and started slow and stopped at the number of tablets that gave me heartburn for an average meal.

Maybe it's just the protein digesting enzymes in it that work?

I will say though that using digestive enzymes make HCI less important as the plant enzymes do start working whether the stomach is sufficiently acid or not. They work in a high or low ph. It's the animal enzymes or your own pancreatic enzymes that really need the stomach ph to be high for proteins. So maybe just start with enzymes?

I do wish I understood more why people do have low stomach acidity, the cause of it if you feel like poking around more please post...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Caedmyn,*

Gas went away for me within days to a week... like it was WOW something is really different here!

Garden of Life probiotics give me gas even when I tried them again not long ago and can't even remember the last time I had gas. (Still have a durned huge bottle of those in the fridge, maybe I should try returning to Whole Foods?







so perhaps the "fermented molasses" and whatever other weird stuff in there is not very friendly.)

So yes I do think they could derail you if you are reacting to those.

Yes, almonds and pecans are supposed to be easiest to digest. They have least amount of starches (cashews have a lot). Almond butter is easy to make in food processor by just whizzing til it's smooth, but you might have to add oil at the end to assist the process b/c they are very dry nuts.

Walnuts have a lot of (omega 3) oil and the "butter" is very thin but yummy tasting. That makes good pancakes too, tastes like buckwheat. Pecan butter is SO yummy, it satisfies a chocolate craving for me. I just made pecan butter fudge with honey and coconut oil









I think it's very important to vary your nuts as a general rule by the way so sensitivities don't develop, but newbies don't let your head explode by my saying this. Just file it and the acid/alkaline thing away til you can deal with it, okay?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Actually, ds and I still get gas, but I think we advanced too fast and need to backtrack, because he and I also get diarrhea, and this is after 6 months with only SCD legal foods (except for an occasional purchase of salted peanuts before I knew they weren't legal shelled, and only allowed unshelled six months after symptoms disappear!). I think we also have to do more enzymes, but zyme prime plus no phenol didn't seem to work but the Kirkman version of Peptizyde is too strong for us.
Jane, the link in the sticky about candida said it would take the same number of months to heal as years of symptoms -- for me that would be like 40, since I think it's been lifelong for me!

You both and my DS too.









I futzed around with coconut milk in the very beginning when we were sorta on again off again with it, but he's been 100% fanatical since Sept. (although when did DH give him that pretzel too.. ?







)

And he can't even tolerate raw fruit very much nevermind dried! Believe me when I get to the bottom of *his* issues, you will be the first to know.

It took me a while to be able to digest whole nuts. Also I totally notice a difference with unsoaked whole nuts... the enzyme inhibitors still get to me.

40 months, ugh! I had tummy issues when I was a kid...not very bad but bouts of constipation. I also used to complain of a "hot tummy" and constantly pulled my shirt up to cool it off.







:

It took me a while to get used to Peptizyde too. Maybe 3 weeks. Started with sprinkles. Now I pop them no problem, even before bedtime.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Sigh. I was going to make myself some more chicken n carrot soup in my chicken stock, but I accidentally put it in the (unwashed) pot I'd used for rinsing my kefir grains...so now I'm going to have to throw the broth out since it's probably got at least a tiny bit of dairy in it. I will be so glad when today is over...maybe I'll just go to bed early to get it over with. I have no idea how people do 3-5 days of this intro diet.

On the almond butter, though, is it bad if the almonds still have their skins? I didn't know I was supposed to get blanched almonds.

Do peanuts have a lot of starch in them? What is wrong with unshelled peanuts, anyway?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Starting a new supplement...Mindlinx by Pharmax. Anyone heard of it? It's a probiotic that specifically degrades gluten and casein proteins. Not that you can consume them-but in the event that you have accidental exposure it would really help. Different than enzymes, though. It is being used with great success for autism, ADD and celiac disease. I'm really looking forward to it! It also contains L Glutamine, but has FOS's and I'm not too sure about them. Gonna give it a try though.

Interesting!

Maybe you could try FOS by iself if you want to test?

I have a bottle of that in my cupboard too. The $500 "Vitamin Graveyard"


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Peanuts can have mold so that is why many people are sensitive to them.
Also the unshelled stuff maybe can be coated with starch? Sometimes roasted nuts have starch added. Or the fact that they are whole means they are harder to digest.

Yes blanched almonds are better w/o the fibrous skins. As far as almond butter goes, which all commercial AB has skins I think... plus if it is roasted and not raw, the starch issue too. I'm sorry! You'll get the hang of it I promise! It sucks to be hungry though, I remember those days on the Elim. Diet. I could bit off the head of anyone who looked cross eyed at me. You are eating lots of fat? Avocado?


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Hi mamas









I am woefully behind on this thread and for whatever reason, I stopped getting e-mail notification.









Quickly though, my 4 yr old is hoping someone can help us out. We bought some hot dogs at the co-op today (he has been talking about hotdogs NONSTOP for like 3 days, despite the fact he's never had a hot dog







)

Anywho we boughthttp://www.applegatefarms.com/tky_dog.shtml these ones. Are they safe?? If you click on ingredients & nutrition info you'll find it. My son would totally appreciate any help on this.

Thanks
Amy


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So dd is $^%@#&*$^$ sick again! I took her to the Dr's today. I had the appointment for him to look at the spots she has been getting. (red ugly looking things) but of course today she doesn't have any but she did have a 101.5 fever. Strep test and urinalisis showed nothing so it was declared a virus and we were sent home with a remedy. I'm so frustrated! My child has been sick for weeks... months!! What is wrong with her! How can I help her to get better and stop getting sick! The Dr's aren't helping. I need a new set of eyes I think.

Man I wish that it just took a month for every year on this diet. If that were true dd would be better by now. For me, not so much. What's 34 months in years? Not quite 3 years. Sigh. I miss donuts. Not that I ate them all that often but I miss the idea that I can eat them if you kwim.

Thankfully I have a neighbor who totally gets it. Talking to her for a couple of hours today while dd played in the sun (she is happy outside no matter how high her temp thankfully) sure helped.

I took the primal defense for a couple of weeks. I don't think I was doing well on it. I quit it and my indegestion went away pretty soon after.

Jane- I'm so sorry you are so frustrated.









Ok gotta go.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I believe in BTVC Elaine says that applegate farms is one of the safe ones. There are no ingredients that are illegal, except possibly the "spices". I have a friend who used them on SCD all the time.

Jane-that's it? $500?







I refuse to tally mine. Thank goodness I fired most of my practitioners!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I believe in BTVC Elaine says that applegate farms is one of the safe ones. There are no ingredients that are illegal, except possibly the "spices". I have a friend who used them on SCD all the time.

Jane-that's it? $500?







I refuse to tally mine. Thank goodness I fired most of my practitioners!









I know what my lil' guy will be having for breakfast tomorrow.....


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

can't find where she said it, but I know I read it. She does say that as long as they don't contain: starch, whey powder, lactose or sucrose they are fine. I just checked their site and they don't. You should be fine!


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

my lil' cancer update for those following:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...27#post4926427 Post 59, I believe.

And more







to you FF.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

AmyD--so if I'm reading that right the growth is shrinking? That's great! Hopefully that will continue.

I feel like I'm on the Atkin's Diet...I had about 6 eggs, 1 lb of hambuger patties, chicken, and chicken n carrot soup today. It's a good thing cholesterol really isn't bad for you, considering how much of it I had today!

Anyhow, I survived today with no cheating (so far anyway...I'm still hungry!) and I have almond butter and applesauce all ready to go for tomorrow, plus a big pot of beef stock on the stove...hopefully it will gel so I can get some gelatin in me, too.


----------



## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

caedmyn--







it's so hard, no? i was insane thse first three days. still insane, but less so, i hope. i think i backed into the diet like you are--first i just did scd legal foods, all of them. i think we had a lot of die-off then, so the intro was less intense (maybe?) than otherwise. then i did a modifed scd intro. eventually it started to make sense to do the real intro. i saw that it was all "invalid" food. that made me see somehow that we really were "injured" and needed to be slow and heal, kwim?

AmyD--that's great to be making progress! woohoo!

JaneS--re: homeopathy. i always thnk of it like a big argument that's been building. all kinds of stuff fies out while you're getting to the core issue. (or is that just bc my stepmom was my first homeopathist? eek!) but i've only met one good homeopathist (no offense to anyone here!)--for me, i found diagnosing myself to work best. i think others' impressions can get in the way too much. i took the girls in at 5.5 months (when they were tiny and starving/malabsorbing)--no help, no insight. i'm working on them right now using the family guide to homeopathy (a whole section on stools!)--but not doing much except reading since we're stuck in the initial stages of the diet and one dd had a fever all night (broken now, but she's not eating). i bet you'd be a great dx'er if you're not sure about the sulphur (as if you have any time).

mlleoiseau--it was the blebs! thanks! i thought i'd read ALL of kellymom, but i missed that or blocked it out. get this? it's lamost healed already! i credit NT and starting scd. woohoo! (i bet it was latch--it is impossible to discreetly nurse two toddlers on a train, in the station, in the cab, but i tried!)

so we had honeyed zucchini with breakfast this morning (since one dd was too sick for any of us to have dinner last night)--not too bad! and i baked apples with no honey (it was too sweet even with a little) to see if that'll be tolerated. but i feel like maybe it's too early for anything, esp since their poops are still totally carrot-y. no carrots yesterday; they are done with them! and one dd had a little diarrhea, but i think that was illness associated. sigh sigh sigh. these are some stressful days. no grocery store has everythig i need, and i'm behind on my stocks!

maybe we can one day have success stories linked to the scd cheat sheet?


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Quote:

I wasn't sure if today's dose didn't make him worse too (of course I missed a day too don't know what that did). Going down for naptime was a freaking nightmare. He was so fidgety and hitting me, we were both in tears.








Remeber if it's getting worse than you have the right remedy. It gets worse and then it gets better. Like the SCD diet. Its when nothing happens that USUALLY means its the wrong remedy.


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

AmyD

I have been thinking about you and was looking for you! I found something that MAY BE of interest. I am soooo glad things are getting better.

HAve you looked into "Nourishing Traditions" by Sally Fallon? I ask because I joined the local YAhoo group off this website

http://www.westonaprice.org/index.html

Anyway, there was a Nourishing Traditions Conference in PA and there was many speakers there but there was someone speaking on CURING CAncer. His website is http://www.fourfoldhealing.com/

I haven't been at the site but it doesn't hurt to look around!!

Again, I am glad things are moving iin the right direction!!


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Sorry its me again......<bag over head>

That website is a good one. I just found Nutrition for Children VERY helpful. SOmeone here was having a child just starting solid foods? Wasn't it on this thread?

Anyway....this is helpful http://www.fourfoldhealing.com/Feeding_Our_Children.htm

The Cancer site is very promising Amy!! http://www.fourfoldhealing.com/Digitalis.htm


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So those of you who understand homeopathy. My neighbor knows some and we both go to the same homeopathic fp Dr. Well she said something about going through the range of symptoms while working out of a problem. Like dd has to go through everything that got her to where she was to get back out of it. Does that make any sense to anyone here? Could that explain why she is so sick now? Could we really be working our way toward a healthier dc instead of a sicker one?

Jane- I have also heard from my Dr that if you get worse on a remedy that means it is working. No fun huh.







The cure is worse than the disease.

Ok I've gotta clean at least a little before my parents come to stay for 2 weeks. I'm so sick of living in crisis mode.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Nicolena--I am there with you on the carrots. Who would have thought carrots would get to them. It's weird because I know that sometimes my dd does digest them, so I don't know what is up now. I am going really slow this time introducing foods and I hope that helps.

So now dd is refusing the enzymes. How did you all end up getting them in your kids? I have the powder, but she must know the taste now and refuses even Oj with them in it. And lately she has been not eating anything she used to especially in the mornings. She used to eat yogurt and applesauce, but now won't.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nicholas_mom*
That website is a good one. I just found Nutrition for Children VERY helpful. SOmeone here was having a child just starting solid foods? Wasn't it on this thread?

Anyway....this is helpful http://www.fourfoldhealing.com/Feeding_Our_Children.htm
That was me & thanks so much for the link! I've only begin to read NT & I'm trying to add some of the principles w/ the SCD. This site is sooo helpful!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Does anyone know why canned tomatoes are illegal? I always thought they were the one canned veggie it was okay to buy because they are so much riper than regular tomatoes when they're canned...


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Can't copy for some reason.

Canned tomatoes may have hidden added sugar.


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## nicholas_mom (Apr 23, 2004)

Quote:

Well she said something about going through the range of symptoms while working out of a problem. Like dd has to go through everything that got her to where she was to get back out of it. Does that make any sense to anyone here?
Yes, I have heard that and had to go through that alittle bit with me. I had chronic bladder infections (as an adult) since meeting my husband and did homeopathy. After the chronic bladder infections were cleared I got a couple of ear infections (since I had ear infections as a child). When I was little we did NO ANTIBIOTICs for ear infections. Just baby aspirin and cotton in the ears and sent to bed. Next morning I was ALWAYS fine.

But, I think it also depends how long the disease is in the body. If its your child, it might be different since it hasn't been in the body for many, many years.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

A couple of questions:

I'm tired of using Dannon as starter. What starter is best? Didn't Jane say something about Progurt not being a good choice anymore?

I still can't do raw *anything* and I'm a little bummed about it. Made chicken avocado salad again (YUM!) but had issues - - I'm thinking from the tomatoes.







I even tried raw pears and nope, can't do those yet either.

I'm slowly reading NT as well and would love to start incorporating some of the NT ideas into this diet. I've done broths (I LOVE broths and have been making those for years.) I tried fermenting but I can't eat it yet.







What can I do next?

Patty, I always think of you whenever I'm grumbling about this diet.







(We started at the same time.)

Oh, had another question, but my 2-yr.old is extremely high needs today.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

annikate--how long have you been on the diet? just curious

Am I really supposed to de-seed my zucchini? There's like nothing left when I'm done!

I think I have a yeast problem, too, so I was thinking about adding oil of oregano. Do I have to do that with Candidase or something like that, or can I start w/just the oil of oregano and Digest Gold w/meals? Actually I haven't even worked up to the enzymes again yet, but I think it's going to be a while before I get up to full strength on those, let alone add in another enyzme, and I'd like to get started on the yeast-killing. Is there anything I should know before I start?


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Just jumping in from lurking for a quick question ... we are 99% sure we are starting the maker's diet again (did it last summer and then I got pregnant and wanted only cereal







), and I'm looking for menu ideas (mostly lunch and dinner, but breakfast too) that don't include any gluten (we are eliminating grains/cereals/flours/starches to the best of our ability). We are still eating dairy (raw or fermented). But I need more ideas than grilled chicken breast, hard-boiled eggs, etc. Is there a good website that has some good ideas? Thanks Mamas!

ETA: I read on one page about the MindLinx by Pharmax (can't remember who/where). Anyone actually use them or just thinking about getting them? If someone has them or has used them, how many servings are in a jar? The website says the jars are 60 grams, but I don't know how many 1/4 teaspoon servings that would equal. Thanks!


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

not that you aren't already helping....

we are on day 10 and i'm so confused. all we've had are bananas and zucchini (with seeds--i missed the deseeded broadcast--today is the first zucchini day for the girls--we'll see). so i really want to add more foods. oh, i also made baked apples, but i was the only one who ate them.

jeez, when i get time to type, i forget all my questions. i guess i'd really like to hear how you were doing at about ten days. if you had a bf toddler, how were the poops? my guys still have undigested stuff in them, but since you know what we're eating, it's kinda hard to tell. so, should i add enzymes? i'm sure this has been covered, but can i just take the enzymes? i can't see getting enzymes and food into my 16 month olds. (but i also couldn't see surviving the first days of this diet.) so-- question #1: will enzymes work if just i take them?

question #2--what was going on with you at about day 10? one dd had one of the behaviors i was thinking was food-related--maybe it's not food-related and she's just fussy and unsatisfied and unhappy. gah! I DON'T KNOW!

question #3 (and i'm thinking you might know firefaery and patty too)--am i really getting enough nutrition to give these guys good milk? i know the benefit is that they will be able to absorb whatever i give them as opposed to not, so even if it's painful for a while, it's worth it. i just wish there were a deadline--like since they're just over a year, then by 1.5 months they should be pretty well healed.

i guess what i want to know is when i need to backtrack. is it whenever the poo isn't perfectly formed? sorry, my computer time is up and i feel i haven't asked my questions well, but input will of course be greatly appreciated.

hang in there mamas!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Otriginally Posted by *caedmyn*
annikate--how long have you been on the diet? just curious

Am I really supposed to de-seed my zucchini? There's like nothing left when I'm done!
Hmmm....10 weeks. ONly one cheat (I ate a *tiny* peice of dd1's pizza) and dd2 paid the price dearly. This was before we knew about her gluten allergy. I'm not always good about remembering enzymes though. I could do better I guess and perhaps make more progress. I really think the tomatoes did it to me though. (?)

Zucchini is not that bad to de-seed. I usually peel, cut lengthwise, and run a spoon down the seed row(s). It doesn't get all of them but it gets most.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *nicolena*
question #3 (and i'm thinking you might know firefaery and patty too)--am i really getting enough nutrition to give these guys good milk? i know the benefit is that they will be able to absorb whatever i give them as opposed to not, so even if it's painful for a while, it's worth it. i just wish there were a deadline--like since they're just over a year, then by 1.5 months they should be pretty well healed.
Yes! Just think of what your milk would be like if you hadn't started on this path! Are you supplementing as well? ETA: I mean, are you taking supplements too?


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

we're on day ten. zucchini seems to be a failure--not diarrhea totally, but loose and wet (sorry). so i stop the zucchini, right? what do i add? (And i've been having zucchini no prob; can i continue?)

so, how long can i stay stalled out here essentially on the intro diet? this is where i worry nobody's getting enough nutrients and perhaps we're doing harm. not to mention the fact that i definitely lost my mama cool today because i was hungry....

and if i stay on the intro diet, will we get better? or is there possibly a dairy reaction? i can't tell, and it seems dangerous to take dairy out of so limited a diet. firefaery, did you have to do this?

(also, only i'm taking the yogurt right now. i figure that's fine since they get their probiotics from my milk. right? right?)

thanks for putting up with me!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

(also, only i'm taking the yogurt right now. i figure that's fine since they get their probiotics from my milk. right? right?)
Boy, I wish a had a definitive answer to that question! I've been over and over this in my mind about giving probiotics to dd. I would think *some* go through b'milk but ?

IMO, I would add CLO right away. That will help make your b'milk







if you're worried. I'd add enzymes too.

I'm not advocating you do this, but I didn't really do the intro diet the way it should have been done. (I didn't have the book and was anxious to get going.) I did make sure everything I ate was peeled, de-seeded and cooked and went slowly. (Am still going slowly!) I'm also trusting my intuition a lot more each day in re: to the foods I choose.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

2 more posts to 1,000 so I'll add:

The beginning of healing was emotional for me as well. I was a mess the first week. Almost like withdrawal. (Maybe that's what it is.) DH was starting to wonder if this was a good idea or not back then.









I promise, it'll get better.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Just knew my 1,000th would be here at this tribe.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

woohoo for 1000! thanks for the encouragement, annikate. i thought the worst of the emotional mess was behind me, but i just lost it today.

yep, i take lots of clo (and so does one dd; the other would in her banana yogurt smoothie, but is not right now). and i take a starch/sugar/yeast free multi (it's great: pure encapsulation nutrient 950). and calc mag zinc, dessicated liver (this is new), and b's. but i just worry all that's not getting absorbed--would rather get it thru food, of course.

i guess i need to de-seed that zucchini. how the heck did i miss that?

and i guess if deseeded zucchini doesn't work, i try cutting out the eggs and/or dairy? i know you all understand how much i don't want to do that. but am i being stupid? tell me if i need to try that based on semi-loose stools that have inproved as we've been on the diet.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

nicolena, I would try the eggs first, but that's just cause my 16 mo dd was reacting to them (and me too). It made her poos loose and really undigested. Once I cut them out they are getting a little better. Formed, but still having carrots come out in them. I need to check the symptoms for die-off again. I am thinking that is what is affecting us. We have the black specs in ours which could mean the waste from bacteria and yeast is moving on out







.

Will your dd's drink broth? I put her enzymes in there lately and then we drink our bowls of soup







Works everytime if mom is doing it too.

We are around day 8 here. Tried zucchini in the chicken soup today so hopefully that works out. Also had bananas, lots and lots of cheese and liver pate, yogurt, kefir, and green beans. I am thinking that dd is getting the enzymes thru me because she isn't taking them that much and seems to be going thru die-off. I've been taking them like crazy.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Update on DS:*

Ped/Homepath pulled his remedy for now. We are talking tomorrow.
Stool tests showed high proteus mirabilis and bacillus bacteria.
No yeast growth. No parasites or other weird cultures.

Lactobacillus was very good, bifidus was lower than it should be.

I believe proteus lives on proteins, need to confirm this. Wonder if his 2 oz juice (way to get him to take enzymes & minerals, diluted with water 50/50 of course) diluted his stomach acid during meals.

Also wonder if a complete diet change is warranted: low protein.









Maybe the take home is that SCD takes care of all organisms except those bacteria that live on proteins. (Clostridia is one too, his C. diff test was negative, but he didn't have the gold standard.) And I've posted previously about his psycho reactions to proteases... wonder if this is die off.

Natural killers according to Great Smokies are berberine best, then plant tannins, uva ursi, then oregano. I will also ask her about Biocidin which has been highly recommended in the ASD community for bacterial issues: http://www.biobotanicalresearch.com/biocidin.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Just knew my 1,000th would be here at this tribe.









Congratulations!







:


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Jane, that is good news. Did you expect those results from his stool test?

Btw, I just realized that it's probably not the tomatoes after all, I also switched enzymes. Ran out of the stuff my chiro gave me and started Houston's. I think it's die off again. Feels like it. I know the Houston's is stronger. PLUS, dd1 has been absolutely wild the last couple of days (I think this is related.)

Also Jane, aren't pecans high in tannins?


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

i've been doing probiotics, clo, and limited carbs trying to fix a possible leaky gut. 7mo ebf ds is allergic to milk and cheese but seemed to be tolerating yogurt and kefir fine -no rash, butt rash, or congestion for almost 3 weeks.

yesterday he threw up twice, took a nap, then threw up 6+ times in 2 hours -mostly small amounts <1/2 cup. after that he seemed fine, was able to keep milk down. at 3 am he woke up with really stinky explosive poo. 10am this morning he had some more.

he's not quite his usual super active self, but pretty close. no fever, good mood, wants to play. which nmakes me think heisn't sick, but maybe experiencing die off, clearing out his system -he has certainly pooped more in the last day or two then he usually does in a week.

or is this ahorrible but delayed allergic reaction to the kefir? do i stop taking kefir or continue?

today he had just two small normal baby spit ups (other than he's never been a spit upper) until just now. he woke up from his nap and spit up lots. what is the difference between vomit and spit up in a bf baby anyway?

i've having a sour stomach for the past few days too.

thx for your help.
R


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

maybe it's "just" a rotavirus. what do you think? my girls had them pretty quickly like that. in less heathy kids it can last for weeks, i think.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
Jane, that is good news. Did you expect those results from his stool test?

Btw, I just realized that it's probably not the tomatoes after all, I also switched enzymes. Ran out of the stuff my chiro gave me and started Houston's. I think it's die off again. Feels like it. I know the Houston's is stronger. PLUS, dd1 has been absolutely wild the last couple of days (I think this is related.)

Also Jane, aren't pecans high in tannins?

Yes, I totally expected it... he had high bacteria and low yeast last year when ND did a stool test. He has a lot of the symptoms of bacteria. But he also has symptoms of yeast too so that is why I wanted to test before giving him herbs or other medication.

Amla (natural vitamin C) is high in tannins too. I need to research the heck out of this to be sure what exactly to give him. I don't like what I'm reading about uva ursi for example if I'm concerned about his liver function.

Yes changing to stronger digestive enzymes can certainly induce die off. I had healed pretty well before I introduced them, or at the very least was on SCD for several months with no symptoms, but I still saw die off.

And I reacted same way as my DS to Peptizyde at first: hyperactivity, buzzing anxiety, couldn't sleep. Surprisingly felt exactly like "overgrowth" to me too brainwise, but without the gi symptoms. Maybe the volatile fatty acids effecting neurotransmitters or toxin release or something like that. Need to read MT's stuff in her recent N/I 101 post re: the sleep issues and gut dysbiosis ... I need like 20 more hours in the day!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
maybe it's "just" a rotavirus. what do you think? my girls had them pretty quickly like that. in less heathy kids it can last for weeks, i think.

Ditto my thoughts.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Hi mamas









I am woefully behind on this thread and for whatever reason, I stopped getting e-mail notification.









Quickly though, my 4 yr old is hoping someone can help us out. We bought some hot dogs at the co-op today (he has been talking about hotdogs NONSTOP for like 3 days, despite the fact he's never had a hot dog







)

Anywho we boughthttp://www.applegatefarms.com/tky_dog.shtml these ones. Are they safe?? If you click on ingredients & nutrition info you'll find it. My son would totally appreciate any help on this.

Thanks
Amy

Maybe when we switched to April new thread? Well you've had a lot on your mind.









These Hot Dogs are









Ingredients
Turkey, Water, Sea Salt, Celery Juice, Spices, Paprika, Garlic, Lactic Acid Starter Culture (Not From Dairy), Onion

Post from Pecanbread Yahoo group discussions about this, the ingredients look good except for the "spices" which may have hidden starch anti caking agents.

Quote:

Here is an email reponse I got from Applegate Farms. It takes them a while to respond. I forget how I worded the original question.

Dear Sue, Thank you very much for writing. I apologize for the delay in
responding to your email. We do not use additional fillers or starches in any
of the spices we use, including the garlic powder. If you have additional
questions or concerns, please let me know and I will be happy to help you.
Thank you, Jennifer

Jennifer Evans Quality Control Department Applegate
Farms Believe In What You Eat 800 587 5858


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
So those of you who understand homeopathy. My neighbor knows some and we both go to the same homeopathic fp Dr. Well she said something about going through the range of symptoms while working out of a problem. Like dd has to go through everything that got her to where she was to get back out of it. Does that make any sense to anyone here? Could that explain why she is so sick now? Could we really be working our way toward a healthier dc instead of a sicker one?

Jane- I have also heard from my Dr that if you get worse on a remedy that means it is working. No fun huh.







The cure is worse than the disease.

Ok I've gotta clean at least a little before my parents come to stay for 2 weeks. I'm so sick of living in crisis mode.

load up on the Vitamin C? every meal? I do think stirring up a lot of junk is hard on the system, detox pathways etc. Also if your gut isnt' absorbing well, your nutrients aren't getting where they need to go. Not to mention that food these days isn't even as nutrient dense as they are supposed to be.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Does anyone know why canned tomatoes are illegal? I always thought they were the one canned veggie it was okay to buy because they are so much riper than regular tomatoes when they're canned...

The reason is that canned products have to be a certain ph ... so it's common to add a bit of sugar to certain tomato batches which are too acidic or something like that. They don't do this with tomato juice which is why that's legal.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
A couple of questions:

I'm tired of using Dannon as starter. What starter is best? Didn't Jane say something about Progurt not being a good choice anymore?

Oh! That reminds me... actually DS has NOT been 100% fantatical since starting the goat yogurt several months ago b/c of ProGurt. It was not coming out as tart as the regular acidophilus yogurt I make for myself. However, I read (at Pecanbread) that it's a different bacteria (l. casei) so that's why it's milder, great for kids, yada-yada-yada. I mean directions are only 1/4 tsp. per 2 quarts, should make you wonder right? So these are my posts a month ago on this issue.

Quote:

3/4/06
Jody, this is what I thought too, until today....

I have always made goat yogurt for DS with the 1/4 tsp. ProGurt
starter as directed. Perfect temperature maintained, all directions
followed etc. for months now. It turns out with the same mild taste
every time. I read this before about the L. casei and thought
great, good for kids.

Well I just made the yogurt again the usual way, except I used some
leftover yogurt in the jar *in addition* to the regular starter
amount. (We went thru the last batch in two days b/c I was eating
some, so it was very fresh.) Everything else as normal. This batch
of yogurt is TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Much more tart, like acidophilus
yogurt, and lots firmer.

This says to me that previous mild batches, even though cultured for
24 hours, did not have all the lactose removed because there was not
enough starter. Because once all the lactose is removed, more
bacteria doesn't grow b/c it doesn't have anything to feed on right?

What is the definitive test to ensure lactose is removed? I
originally thought it was the tart taste.

I'm NOT AT ALL HAPPY about this possibility. My DS has not been
progressing and I'm wondering if this is the problem.

Jane and Luke
SCD since 9/05

Quote:

3/6/06
I just tripled the amount of ProGurt (1/4 tsp. to 3/4 tsp.) in a
goat yogurt batch right now. Already in just 12 hours, it is much
firmer and more tart than 24 hr. culturing with standard amount.

Clearly there is something wrong here.

Jane and Luke
SCD since 9/05
And actually I'm a pretty pissed off that Pecanbread host Jody is not answering me about this. She replied a month ago she was "looking into it". I posted again asking if any data on this a few days ago. Nothing.









This is HUGE if you ask me... all these people thinking they are doing SCD and they aren't!!! Haven't called the company yet b/c I've been too busy (even though they are an hr. from me I should just drive down there, probably their house or something). So I just add a half cup of previous batch to next batch and it comes out quite tart.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
I'm slowly reading NT as well and would love to start incorporating some of the NT ideas into this diet. I've done broths (I LOVE broths and have been making those for years.) I tried fermenting but I can't eat it yet.







What can I do next?


Liver. Coconut oil. Fermented beverages with juice (make sure you use yogurt whey or yogurt starter).


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Whoops, sorry Terri, got carried away by ranting and forgot to answer you









I use Yogourmet yogurt starter that I get at Whole Foods but you can also get online here: http://www.lucyskitchenshop.com/yogourmet.html#starter


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
I am thinking that dd is getting the enzymes thru me because she isn't taking them that much and seems to be going thru die-off. I've been taking them like crazy.

Absolutely they do... they enter your bloodstream. Which is a good thing b/c they then act like scavengers and clean up debris around your body. Why they are good for things like arthritis and other body inflammation.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I am sooo glad to know this about the Progurt! I'd love to know what they have to say about it AND what Jodi finally comes up with. That place has pi**ed me off one too many times and I rarely go there anymore.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

For starting my goat yougart I was using the sheep yougart I could get at whole foods. It isn't cheap but it worked. I ordered a case from my co-op this month. Of course now I don't need it since dd seems to be fine on the cow dairy but I can still use it for that. I also have 5# of goat cheddar coming...

Annikate- I didn't realize you started just before we did. I'm sorry you can't do raw foods yet. So far we have done raw melon, some raw berries and pineapple in smoothies, romaine, peeled apple and today some carrots. I figure smaller stuff is easier to digest so I try to cut everything raw up small and chew it really really well.

Who is nursing??? This can be a very healthy diet for nursing. For your own sake make sure you are getting enough carbs. That can be tough since so many of the legal foods are low in carbs and some of the foods that seem carby (muffins) aren't so much because of the nut flour.

There was alot I wanted to respond to but dd got up this morning at 4 am and only took one short nap in the morning (and I didn't) so I'm a little brain dead right now. She is still running a fever. I forgot about vitamin C. I backed off on enzymes while she is sick. I think they would be good for her but it is one more argument I just don't wanna have with a cranky kid. I am hopeful that while her grandparents are visiting for the next 2 weeks she will be more cooperative. That has happened in the past.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Can an upset stomach be a sign of die-off? This evening I felt really nauseous (like morning sickness type) and then had major diarrhea w/a seriously upset stomach (sorry, TMI!). I don't know if it was die off or a reaction to all the applesauce I've eaten today--probably 4 apples worth of applesauce. Other than that the only thing I've had different than the intro was a little bit of zucchini in scrambled eggs--and I eat zucchini just about every day, whereas I haven't had any apples in a couple of weeks. Oh and I did have one almond butter pancake. I'm going to try to limit my nut butter useage to a couple of tablespoons a day.

My beef broth gelled







yeah!!! But DD had bloody poop again today. I am starting to wonder if it could be an oversupply issue--I've read that oversupply can cause bloody poop, and she does have a couple of symptoms of it (makes a clicking noise when she nurses and chokes a lot...actually she doesn't choke much anymore but she used to quite a bit).


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

i'm nursing and jonesin' for carbs!!!

what is wrong with me? i de-seeded the zucchini but forgot to peel it! will try to salvage some by peeling it after it cools. and i burned my apples.

jane--rock on for sending out those letters! i hope you get some answers and thanks for sharing about the whole tartness issue--i check every batch!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Patty - - I really think it's die off again. I actually have had some raw fruits (mango, grapes by the handfuls, hmm. . that's it I guess.) I'm glad you asked who's b'feeding. I want to know too. I am, are you?

caedmyn - - die off can absolutely cause stomach upset.

nicolena - - can you do nut butters yet? Or did I already suggest this?


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Hi mamas,
I'm on day 11 of a gluten and dairy elim diet, trying to heal my gut (and hoping that is the right diagnosis







: ) When I went to my local grocery store to buy glucosamine, they had various forms that were forumulated with other things too, such as glucosamine HCl, glucosamine MSM, glucosamine complex, etc. A scientific article cited on the enzyme page that your cheat sheet references said that the treatment should be with N-acetyl glucosamine, but I can't locate a product that lists that specifically. Do any of these variations matter? I'm currently taking the "glucosamine complex", and I _think_ the formulation is with HCl (don't have the bottle in front of me). All of the products say that they are for "joint health", and it seemed to me that any of them that work on connective tissue would be good.
Anyone else doing glucosamine? Any recs for what the product name/brand is?

PS Thanks for all the info that you've all provided on die-off. I think I was mistaking my die-off symptoms for the elim diet "making things worse" at first







Hope I can offer some help to all of you soon, but I still know so much less than all of you.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

AHHHH!!! Now I think I have thrush...I have this white coating on my tongue that just started a couple of days ago? DD doesn't appear to have it (yet). How do I treat it?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Caedmyn~do you have a really good LC you can see? Oversupply is a possibility due to the high lactose load in the milk...It is a latch problem though and can resolved quickly with the right help. I still would be suprised if that was the only problem. You should be seen though if your letdown is that strong and you're hearing the clicking.


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

*die-off? update*

well, when ds pooped last night it wasn't gassy/explosive anymore, and had a smooth consistency. all his poops yesterday were yellow, more like bf poo is supposed to be i think. i'm trying to remember but i think his were this yellow for the first couple months after he was born. they've been a slightly greenish yellow for months even though they improved some after i eliminated dairy.

so i'm thinking this was die-off. i guess it would make sense that his gut would heal much faster than mine. my issues have been going on for 7 years vs. his 7 months. i've been having nausea and/or diarhea for the past few days, though this morning i'm feeling better. i've been wondering if what i am eating was going to be enough (i really don't feel like doing the whole scd diet), i guess if i'm experiencing die-off then it must be. yay! for that anyway.

R


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## MyLittleWonders (Feb 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MyLittleWonders*
Just jumping in from lurking for a quick question ... we are 99% sure we are starting the maker's diet again (did it last summer and then I got pregnant and wanted only cereal







), and I'm looking for menu ideas (mostly lunch and dinner, but breakfast too) that don't include any gluten (we are eliminating grains/cereals/flours/starches to the best of our ability). We are still eating dairy (raw or fermented). But I need more ideas than grilled chicken breast, hard-boiled eggs, etc. Is there a good website that has some good ideas? Thanks Mamas!

ETA: I read on one page about the MindLinx by Pharmax (can't remember who/where). Anyone actually use them or just thinking about getting them? If someone has them or has used them, how many servings are in a jar? The website says the jars are 60 grams, but I don't know how many 1/4 teaspoon servings that would equal. Thanks!

I'm quoting myself here hoping someone might have a quick answer for me.







Then I can go back to just lurking.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I got the mindlinx...should be here in a day or so. I'll let you know...


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I have a bottle of sodium ascorbate that says 1/4 tsp. is 1.2 grams...so there'd be roughly 60 doses in your bottle.

Maker's Diet ideas: breakfast: smoothies w/yogurt or kefir, omelets, almond flour pancakes (these are really good, and can also be used for lunch or dinner)

lunch: salmon or tuna salad eaten on celery sticks, almond butter w/ or w/o honey eaten on celery sticks

dinner: homemade soup (there's lots of different ones that can be done w/o pasta, just use kidney beans or lentils), spaghetti served on spaghetti squash, things made with lentils, crustless quiche, sausage hash w/homemade sausage, potatoes, cheese, and salsa (when you get to the 2nd stage), stir frys w/o rice, pot pies w/o crust, meat loaf, I have a chicken or beef & potato roti recipe you can make w/o bread, PM me if you're interested...basically just look at the recipes you currently make and see which ones you can make w/o bread or pasta

snacks: deviled eggs, lentils pancakes w/honey or avacado (PM me if you want the recipe), crispy nuts

Most of the SCD recipes are Maker's Diet friendly--some you might have to wait until the 2nd stage, though, if you only want to use almonds at first. Try this website www.pecanbread.com
Click on the recipes link...also on the first page that comes up when you go the website, at the bottom of the page are links to some other websites that have SCD recipes. The Midas Gold pancakes recipe is great--I added some cinnamon and then didn't even need to top them with anything.

HTH!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--Do you think if I contacted the local LLL someone there could help me out? I don't think that's the only issue, if it is an issue--the more I think about it the more I think we (me anyhow) have some major yeast issues.


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
maybe it's "just" a rotavirus. what do you think? my girls had them pretty quickly like that. in less heathy kids it can last for weeks, i think.

on saturday he did spend some time playing with a 6.5 mo baby. the other kid isn't sick though.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Re: yeast

On one of the old threads I read that you can do a simple yeast test by filling a clear glass 1/2 full of water and spitting in it as soon as you wake up in the morning (before eating, drinking, or brushing teeth). If the saliva starts sinking down to the bottom in strands, it means you have a yeast problem.

I've been wondering about this since I read it. Any truth to it? Has anyone tried?


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## carrietorgc (Sep 16, 2003)

i've never tried it.

i have some questions about healing my almost 8 mo olds gut. I know he has yeast issues - when we got thrush (barely visible in him, no symptoms in me beyond mildly itchy nipples) his reflux and food intolerances spiraled out of control.

After a 3 mo nursing strike, ftt, no gain, and allergic reactions to anything i ate, we weaned to neocate. he was getting bad bad allergic reactions every time he nursed.

we are finally kicking the yeast - last time he got thrush it was after we had weaned, and he had a course of diflucan and then started a super strong probiotic called vsl3 (it helps heal colitis, which he has).

It made a huge difference - he would actually willingly take a bottle! He and dd had a tummy bug 2 wks ago and he couldn't keep the probiotic down for a wk. now he is back on it, but has a yeast diaper rash and a bit of eating refusal again, so i suspect the yeast is back.

who does scd goat milk for their kids? how young is too young? vsl seems to work for him, but is $75 a month. he is pretty sensitive to dairy, so i am a bit nervous about him tolerating goat milk yogurt.

my system seems to be healing itself - i never noticed any gut issues at all, but clearly had leaky gut from yeast since adrian was so affected by it.


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

Probably a silly question. Today I feel sooooo sick. I am nauceous, have a headache, dizzy, moody, irritable, gassy, it feels like I've ate a LOT of food but I haven't. I just feel so full. Anyways, today Brody (my baby that I am nursing) has been spitting up a lot and he was sitting on my lap and his tummy was making strange noises and I could feel his tummy vibrating. He was making whimpering sounds and then had an explosive poop filled with mucous. We aren't doing solids, so I should hold off on them for a while longer right? I have spent the last few hours crying because I am just so frustrated. I hate feeling like crap, and I hate knowing that my poor baby feels like crap. I am waiting for the SCD book to come into the library so I can borrow it. The lady said it will be back in the next month.

Angela


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

Forgot to ask one question. Sorry if TMI. Does anyone find that sex is uncomfortable? It feels like things are swollen inside or something and it just hurts. I've had pap's etc and everything is fine.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Carrie, My ds had bad food allergies and I didn't produce enough milk due to my own gut damage. I made him formula from about one month (when he couldn't tolerate even the neocate/alimentum. I used raw goat milk as a base. He was comfortable for hte first time in a long time. I'm not a doc, but I can say from experience that you can in fact use raw goat milk from very early on.

Re yeast: The test appears to work. I had horrible yeast issues and that's exactly what it looked like in the glass!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I'm gonna try that yeast test! Sort of grosses me out though.









Angela, in thinking more about your ds, it sounds just like what dd went through. Try to eliminate dairy and wheat. It'll take several weeks to see a difference but don't get impatient. I really just have a feeling it'll help him. And yes to the sex issue. I know the feeling! It didn't happen after dd1 but did after dd2. Seems it got progressively better. I just figured it was from having 2 babies. And ... we haven't really had time to *check* and see if it's gotten better or not lately. (Sleep takes precedence over EVERYTHING!









I don't remember who posted the link about introducing solids to babes but if you haven't seen it lmk and I'll post it again. It's awesome.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Hi Carrie!









Does anyone know if shellfish is legal on SCD; particularly lobster? I look at the list and don't see it listed.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

It is legal...if you choose to go that route.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I got some oil of oregano today to treat yeast issues...but then after I got home I noticed that the bottle says not to use if pregnant or nursing...does anyone know if this is actually okay or not? And what can I use if it's not? I don't want to use GSE after reading that link someone posted about it actually being the chemicals used to process the GSE that are effective in treatments.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Carrie

Wow that VSL3 is expensive! Did dr. px? What are the bacterial strains, I couldn't find on the site. Its interesting that it's recommended for babies. I always thought bifidus was supposed to be the predominent bacteria until solid food is started.

See recipes and FAQs for goat's milk formula at the Children's page of the Weston Price foundation here:
http://www.westonaprice.org/children/index.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Interesting things I've been reading about the nasty bug DS has: proteus mirabilis.

Cause of diarrhea. Produces ammonia and can put body ph out of whack. Penetrates deep into gut lining and causes inflammation. Emits hemolysins (cell-damaging protein toxins produced by pathogenic bacteria).

Makes sense!

I'm a little freaked out about getting rid of it. My Ped/Homeopath was NOT that helpful. We are supposed to do 1/5th-1/6th of adult dosage of uva ursi and plant tannins. And I'm not sure I want to use UU b/c of the liver issue. Then she says well you can use berberine if you want to.









And I outlined all these questions via email about minerals and other tests re: his growth and amino acids and she didn't even end up addressing them in our phone appt. today. But she did say she would redo his homeopathic remedy. I guess that's her experience and she doesn't have much else for us.

I'm irritated. I guess I should just do the freakin tests myself and figure it all out myself!!!









Oh, except DH said no going off by myself b/c he thinks I'm just wasting $$ and I don't really know as much as a professional! If we had a "middle finger" smilie, I'd be using it.







:

Aren't I a party today?!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

No Oregano Oil While Nursing Or Pregnant!


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## Peri Patetic (Feb 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Interesting things I've been reading about the nasty bug DS has: proteus mirabilis.

Wow, how did he get that? Poor little guy... I hope you can find something to help him.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Oh, Jane! I'm so sorry! I wish you were closer to CT. My practitioners have been SO helpful and have figured all of this stuff out. They are very used to these tests...Do you have out of network benefits? Maybe you could call them? I know that the herbalist/nutritionist has done email consults before...wishing I could help you more.


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## babygrant (Mar 10, 2005)

Annikate:
We just got through a 2 hour crying spell. He was screaming, and actually had tears coming down his poor little face. How the heck do I get rid of wheat though??? Seems like wheat is in EVERYTHING! I just don't know what the heck I would eat. It seems as though my husband doesn't really understand either. He got home from work and Brody was *ok*. He started crying, I was comforting him, still crying though. He was SCREAMING with the tears and I could tell DH was getting irritated but I was the one rocking him still. So he tells me just go to put him in his crib and leave him! UMMM NO! Then I was crying because I was the one who made him miserable because I ate two corndogs for lunch that I KNEW had dairy in them but I wanted to see if he reacted. He had a really yucky mucousy diaper earlier in the afternoon so I know he was reacting but didn't think he'd get this bad. *sigh* I'm just so frustrated and upset. I hate this.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Jane,

Your ped should work with the clinician at the lab to outline a plan for you. Does she not realize that they have people available for that purpose? Was she just humoring you with the test?

Our homeopath is also an MD and homeopathy is his biggest tool and he's good at it. But it is frustrating when you want more than that. IKWYM.
There have got to be some other resources there for you. Call Metametrix and ask which docs in your area use the lab, then interview the docs. Post on the yahoo native nutrition list. It's pretty active.

Amanda


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## carrietorgc (Sep 16, 2003)

Jane, i just tossed the box, when i get the new shipment next wk i'll post the 8 strains. i know three of them are bifidus. our gi is kinda clueless on it but has agreed it won't hurt. lol, one of his suggestions was to add rice cereal to the neocate. RIGHT - idiot. i'm going to see a new one at georgetown in early may. i could prob fight ins to pay for it since it is a medical food, but haven't bothered yet.

and thanks for the wap links on goat formula. i def. want to try goat milk scd yogurt on the little guy at some point.

the strange thing is, I have plenty of milk, had no supply issues, and no gut issues at all. the only thing i've discovered in all this is that legumes can give me some discomfort if i forget my digestive enzymes. i do feel some die off though from the yogurt and the enzymes. less so now that i've been on them for a few months.

lol, i was at lll tonight and it was all i could do to not scare a poor mom to death that was asking about food intolerances in her baby.

angela, good luck getting rid of dairy!! you will see a huge difference in your baby..we did too before the yeast from hell took over.

oh, and progurt - argh - i can't believe that it isn't as potent as they say. blech. i'll try it with 1 tsp and see how that does. i want to use the progurt with goat milk for ds, for me i just use yogourmet.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

jane~I was just coming back to post what Amanda already said. The person running the metametrix test for me has been in contact with the lab several times just for me to get info. THey seem to take alot of time dissecting results. I know someone else just got testing done and the results were confusing-the lab spent a good amount of time figuring it out as well. I would think they could guide your doc and give some help.

Our homeopath is an MD as well-though he doesn't practice allopathically anymore. It's invaluable to me because he can read and order all the tests, but really doesn't think that "modern" medicine has anything to offer. I love homeopathy (incidentally, mostly because I have an amazing practitioner) but it does have it's limitations. You really are on the right track, mama. I'm constantly amazed by your perserverence.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

So...could I try raw garlic to kill yeast? I know I'm not at the raw stage yet, but would it be worth a try?

Also, is it a bit counter-productive to be eating all this well cooked food that doesn't have enzymes, since I'm not taking any enzymes yet? Is my body still going to be able to digest it?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Raw garlic, raw onions, GSE, enzymes, so many things will kill yeast. You shouldn't have a problem with cooked foods if your digestion isn't seriously hampered. I would try eating a bit of raw before cooked-as in a salad before dinner. In general I do believe raw is better though.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

babygrant, I'm sorry Brody is so miserable.
It does seem like wheat is in everything. It gets easier to avoid, though. When I first started avoiding it, I would go to the health food store and buy rice pasta, wheat free breads, and rice crackers. Then for a long time, I just ate meat, veggies, fruits and other grains like rice and oats.
There are some good cookbooks out there. One I like is the Whole Foods Allergy Cookbook by Cybele Pascal. Plus many of the scd recipes would work for you.
Good luck.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

babygrant, I'm sorry Brody is so miserable.
It does seem like wheat is in everything. It gets easier to avoid, though. When I first started avoiding it, I would go to the health food store and buy rice pasta, wheat free breads, and rice crackers. Then for a long time, I just ate meat, veggies, fruits and other grains like rice and oats.
There are some good cookbooks out there. One I like is the Whole Foods Allergy Cookbook by Cybele Pascal. Plus many of the scd recipes would work for you.
Good luck.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

babygrant, I'm sorry Brody is so miserable.
It does seem like wheat is in everything. It gets easier to avoid, though. When I first started avoiding it, I would go to the health food store and buy rice pasta, wheat free breads, and rice crackers. Then for a long time, I just ate meat, veggies, fruits and other grains like rice and oats.
There are some good cookbooks out there. One I like is the Whole Foods Allergy Cookbook by Cybele Pascal. Plus many of the scd recipes would work for you.
Good luck.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

sorry for the multiple posts.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *firefaery*
It is legal...if you choose to go that route.
FF, this sounds like a warning. Something about shellfish that's not good?
We're going on vacation soon to a small island and I'm trying to line up all the things I can eat before I go. Not to mention decide what foods I can pack and bring (if any). Definitely trying to smuggle in some almond flour though!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Had TWO raw apples yesterday and no reactions whatsoever. I must really be doing some healing. Oh, and I also forgot enzymes for myself yesterday too.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Shellfish, pork, and some other things are never legal on the makers diet. JR says that they are not kosher because they are hard to digest. I think that is what she is talking about. FWIW I have heard that about pork before from a source that wasn't concerned about kosher/not kosher.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I'm thinking the white coating on my tongue isn't thrush after all--it was almost gone yesterday evening, and then I looked at my tongue again right before I went to bed and the white coating was back...so I figured it must have been something I ate. The only things I had in the evening were applesauce and an almond butter pancake, so I wonder if somehow the almonds are causing it (they're not organic). Did someone say something earlier in this thread or maybe in last month's thread about having problems with almonds?

Sally Fallon in NT even mentions having reservations about shellfish and pork.

I don't understand why peanut butter w/no additives is legal but shelled peanuts are not...I understand that shelled peanuts may have starch added, but what's to say the peanuts used in making the peanut butter don't have starch added? Or has someone researched this and found out that the PB doesn't have starch added?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Pork isn't eaten or recommended in the maker's diet because it is the best medium for cancer growth-also there's the whole cloven hoof thing-we aren't supposed to eat anything with a cloven hoof. As far as shellfish-it's a contamination issue. I don't think they are difficult to digest (at least I haven't read that) it's that they are scavengers and ingest all the "crap" in the ocean. You, therefore, ingest all of toxins they have accumulated. Shrimp is possibly the exception because contrary to popular belief-they are not bottom dwellers. They are mobile and if you get them wild caught in theory the toxins are mostly in the shell which you remove. HTH. Biblically-you don't eat anything without an excretory system-at least I think that's how it's worded.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Actually the Bible says they (marine life) have to have fins and scales in order to be edible.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

There ya go! Fins and scales. No shellfish either way. Thanks Caedmyn.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Sorry about your ds Jane, I thought those were *okay* results.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Actually the Bible says they (marine life) have to have fins and scales in order to be edible.
ya learn somethin' new every day.

BTW, also just learned that the bible also talks about the importance of adequate sleep for health maintenance.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I don't understand why peanut butter w/no additives is legal but shelled peanuts are not...I understand that shelled peanuts may have starch added, but what's to say the peanuts used in making the peanut butter don't have starch added? Or has someone researched this and found out that the PB doesn't have starch added?

I wonder about that, too. I mean, at the places I buy the fresh ground, it's pretty obvious the peanuts have something on them, they look kind of powdery. I have also heard that peanuts feed yeast, although that's one of those things I don't want to believe, LOL.

Carrie, I had a similar experience at a lll meeting on Wed -- there was a new mom with a baby that was having painful poops and had a major skin rash, and I just wanted to tell her to do SCD, but I didn't want to scare her.

Patty, I've heard different things about things getting worse first with homeopathy -- some say it's true, others not. I had a link that explained why it wasn't true, but can't find it.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Gale Force--not sure if you're still on here, but I've been reading MT's Nutrition and Immunology 101 thread, and you mentioned reading that sprouting wheat only neutralized 40% of the phytic acid...do you have a link for that? I've been (prior to SCD anyway) sprouting, dehydrating, and then grinding my wheat instead of soaking it, but if that isn't getting rid of the phytates I'll have to do something else.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

sigh. so i was all proud of myself for stopping eggs (no cheesecake either)--and the girls get a weird virus. so i have no idea the effect of eggs, am too worried to reintroduce them yet (i don't think we're on solid ground yet, so to speak), and dh thinks i'm starving the girls. which i probably am. they're eating almost nothing and neither am i.

he says this diet is too stressful, tho he says he supports it. he's eating worse because i can't make two or the meals at a time. wah wah wah!

i am so freaking frustrated! i didn't think we were that bad off, but i have yet to see a normal poop from them. i don't know what to think about myself. i have the slightest gas still. i'm trying really hard not to give up. i can't stay stalled here with only bananas and zucchini in addition to beef and chicken and some fish. gah--gotta go!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

nicolena--







This is a great diet for losing weight, huh! Have you tried introducing applesauce or carrots? I know the intro diet on pecanbread.com includes carrots, so they must be pretty easy to tolerate. IMO it'd be better to add a few more of the easier tolerated foods than to get too discouraged or hungry and give up. I started (after the day of intro diet) w/applesauce and zucchini, and being able to eat the applesauce really helped a lot--and I would think applesauce would be a pretty kid friendly food, too. Have you made any stock? I've been eating beef stock w/carrots and chicken in it quite a bit, and it's really good, filling, and nourishing. I also cook my eggs w/coconut oil for extra fat, and leave some of the fat in my beef stock.

I'm actually pretty lucky on the DH department--he is gone for work for 5 weeks, so I only have to worry about me for now. Which is probably a good thing as he isn't really on-board with the whole diet thing--he thinks I should just eliminate dairy.

Can someone look at what I've been eating and tell me if I'm adding things to fast? I'm sort of trying to balance feeling halfway functional with going slow. Plus it's hard to tell how I'm doing since my only digestive symptom is gas, which has improved quite a bit but is still there.

Tuesday: intro diet (hamburger patties, chicken stock w/chicken & carrots, fried eggs)
Wednesday & Thursday: same thing as Tuesday plus applesauce, zucchini, and a little bit of almond butter for extra calories
Friday: same as Wed/Thur plus a salmon patty, oh did have pecan butter instead of almond butter
Saturday: added banana and avocado (they finally got ripe!)

I may add pearsauce, too, but I'm thinking I have enough variety/calories with what I have now to not add anything else for a while. I may even try to cut out the nut butter for a while if I can.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, sending you a big







for you and your ds. At least you know what the bug is now, but too bad the docs aren't helping out any.

re: no cloven hoof animals -- wouldn't that eliminate cows, sheep, goats, deer, and leave only poultry and horses? That seems awfully restrictive!

cademyn, that looks good to me, but I went way too fast, not knowing about adding in one or two at a time.

Here's what I ate today:
breakfast: cashew butter/banana/blueberry/egg pancakes with butter, water
lunch: stir fried broccoli, red bell pepper, carrots, kale, and chicken, water, cookie made with ground pecans, coconut, eggs, butter, raisins, and winter squash (just took the pumpkin cookie recipe from BTVC and swapped the pumpkin for cooked winter squash, and added shredded coconut)
dinner: split pea soup, rattatoille (made with eggplant, zucchini, onion, garlic, tomatoes, red and green bell pepper, and thyme, bay leaf and basil), sauteed chard with lemon, salad with an olive oil/lemon vinaigrette. Dessert was plain homemade goat milk yogurt. Note: ds ate only chicken, no veggies. And he snacked all day on little boxes of raisins dh bought him. Argh!
snack: goat cheddar, one bite chicken, spoonful of peanut butter.

Lately I've been craving movie popcorn and oatmeal. What does that indicate? Lack of starch??


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

No. A cloven hoof is when the hoof is split-like a boar or pig. Cows, sheep and goats do not have a cloven hoof.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Four legged animals are supposed to have a split hoof and chew the cud to be edible. Cows, sheep, and goats are edible because they have/do both, but pigs are not because they don't chew the cud, although they do have a split hoof. Rabbits chew the cud but don't have a split hoof so they are not edible.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

I just had to tell you - I scrapped our Eurocuisine yogurt maker and used a 2 qt glass jar to make the 24 hour yogurt and it came out PERFECTLY!!! It is SO yummy.

One question: can I use the last cup of this yogurt to make the next batch? Or do I need to use the yogourmet starter every time?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

How do I know if my bananas are ripe enough? They have lots of spots, and the edges are getting black, but they aren't all that soft.

chasmyn--I haven't tried it but you are supposed to be able to use some of the previous batch as a starter (I have made yogurt using store bought yogurt as a starter).


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Caedmyn~ isn't there something about the hoof though? I swear there was...I thought that cows and such have a different type? Am I just nuts? Again, it's not exactly my area of expertise...


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Cow hoof


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Just wanted to jump in and defend my progurt starter







I've been using it, for some time, I use a teeny bit over what it calls for (b/c I ain't no good at the measuring







) and my yogurt comes out super tart every time. Like, inedible w/o a nice amt of honey.

My 2 cents


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--Not sure what you're asking...the Bible does mention hoof(s...or hooves?) anywho it says they have to be split. I can't say I know what all the different animal feet look like, though! But not chewing the cud is why pigs are unclean.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
chasmyn--I haven't tried it but you are supposed to be able to use some of the previous batch as a starter (I have made yogurt using store bought yogurt as a starter).
If you are doing the SCD you're not supposed to use your own batch for starter. (Don't remember who's doing SCD and who's not.)


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

annikate--do you know why you're not supposed to use your own batch as starter?


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## zanelee (Nov 29, 2003)

I'm so glad we're on the topic or making yogurt. I have a delimma....
What would ya'll do:
We have some friends who own a dairy. I thought about asking them if I could buy some raw milk from them But don't know (yet) how they feed or if they use antibiotics rampantly.(How do you ask that nicely?)
So, if they do use the typical methods of dairy production...what type of milk would you use?
Myself and my ds have a milk lactose thing. Can't handle it. So I've always bought the Lactaid milk from the store. Can you use this at all to make yogurt?
If not, should I use regular milk from the store?
So-here are my options....
1-raw milk from dairy (not sure yet whether they are desireable cows







)
2-"Lactaid" brand milk from the store
3-regular milk from the store
What to do?
TIA-


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I wouldn't personally use raw milk from a conventional cow. Conventional farming is why they SHOULD pasteurize IMO. But I'm definitely really fanatical about things. I guess it would ultimately depend on your feelings after seeing the animals and the facility though.
You can use regular milk from the store-making yogurt properly naturally rids it of any lactose. No need to buy lactaid!


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Gale Force--not sure if you're still on here, but I've been reading MT's Nutrition and Immunology 101 thread, and you mentioned reading that sprouting wheat only neutralized 40% of the phytic acid...do you have a link for that? I've been (prior to SCD anyway) sprouting, dehydrating, and then grinding my wheat instead of soaking it, but if that isn't getting rid of the phytates I'll have to do something else.

caedmyn -- what are you making with the wheat ultimately?


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
We have some friends who own a dairy. I thought about asking them if I could buy some raw milk from them But don't know (yet) how they feed or if they use antibiotics rampantly.(How do you ask that nicely?)

ITA w firefaery that it's the conditions -- the diets of the cows will affect the milk quality. The cows around here in commercial dairies don't see a blade of fresh grass.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
If not, should I use regular milk from the store?
So-here are my options....
1-raw milk from dairy (not sure yet whether they are desireable cows







)
2-"Lactaid" brand milk from the store
3-regular milk from the store
What to do?
TIA-

There are no other choices?
Maybe another food source of probiotics like vegetables? (fermented vegetables)


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
annikate--do you know why you're not supposed to use your own batch as starter?
To be sure the bifidus strain does not contaminate it. See here:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...g_starters.htm


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Zanalee-- Have you tried kefiring young green coconut water to start producing lactose or -ase again? I think the Body Ecology talks about that or something. You might want to check into that. Otherwise I am another one that will not use regular milk anymore. Just icks me out and I can go without if I have to, but I get raw milk so am good.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

So Easter dinner didn't go over to well. A whole day of cheating









So did I just ruin the 2 weeks we've been on the diet? Do I have to start over? I am so kicking myself. How do you all socialize and stay 100 percent on the diet? Especially with little ones wanting what other kids are eating?


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *zanelee*
I'm so glad we're on the topic or making yogurt. I have a delimma....
What would ya'll do:
We have some friends who own a dairy. I thought about asking them if I could buy some raw milk from them But don't know (yet) how they feed or if they use antibiotics rampantly.(How do you ask that nicely?)
So, if they do use the typical methods of dairy production...what type of milk would you use?
Myself and my ds have a milk lactose thing. Can't handle it. So I've always bought the Lactaid milk from the store. Can you use this at all to make yogurt?
If not, should I use regular milk from the store?
So-here are my options....
1-raw milk from dairy (not sure yet whether they are desireable cows







)
2-"Lactaid" brand milk from the store
3-regular milk from the store
What to do?
TIA-

I don't think it would be rude to just ask them. Let them know you want to make sure they're pasture-raised and not fed any hormones or antibiotics.

My DH and I also don't tolerate lactose in pasteurized milk but neither of us have any issues with raw milk. Really! I think it must have something to do with the milk proteins being changed in pasturization.

Also when you maske yogurt it breaks down all of the lactose so my hought is that it would be best to use whole organic milk if you don't get raw. Do the 24-hour yogurt and you won't have to worry about the lactose anyway.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

coconut water kefir is super yummy! Whole Foods also sells raw saurkraut here...easy to make but to get you started it may be a bonus.


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

I've taken a long break from this thread. It seems I don't have time or energy anymore. Anyway, I've been on SCD for almost a month, and I feel terrible. No chronic diarreha, very much reduced flatulence (flatulence everyday I start something new, then I take it out, try it a few days later and am fine) both great pluses, BUT I still have terrible brain fog, and feel generally yucky most days. I've been eating lots lately, all according to my appetite. I feel slugish. Perhaps today is especially bad because I was woken up early by the yelling of my 3-year-old who had a nightmare (something about how I didn't want her to see a video!)

Something is telling me this is a greater issue than die off. I suspect dairy. For three years I barely consumed much dairy (only cultured though), and now I'm downing it like crazy. Could this be a possible 'hidden' milk allergy? I'm going to the Naturopath (for the first time) in a week (finally!). I'll see what she says, and if she doesn't suggest it, I want testing done for this. Any thoughts?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

I did the spit test for yeast, like the pps said, and it was way positive! My spit was totally cloudy, and little strands immediately started dropping down, like a jellyfish. I googled it and saw pictures like it. So, SCD alone is definitely not enough for me. I guess I need to cut out honey and fruit. At this point, I feel like everything is off limits except vegetables and yogurt. Meat and beans and cheese are acidic, fruit feeds yeast, most nuts are acidic and have mold, too, apparently. Ugh! I am so down. I feel so defeated by yeast, I just want it to go away and leave us alone. It's such a monster! I need a new homeopath.

As far as socializing and not cheating, well, we bring our own food, and really hardly socialize at all anyway. Easter we just went to a park the three of us, no Easter egg hunts or even church as we knew candy would be everywhere.

Siana, I have you tried cutting out dairy for two weeks to see if it makes any difference? Maybe just all dairy but the 24 hr yogurt?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Siana~hugs! Sorry you feel so bad. What are you actually eating? Are you getting enough fruits and veggies? My biggest mistake when I started was eating alot of meat-nut-fish-egg dishes and not enough vegetation. I was miserable. I had to find my balance. I would also suggest if there are any questions that you try eliminating dairy and see what happens. you should know pretty quickly if it's an issue.

And for both Pookietooth and Siana-are you doing anything specifically for yeast issues? The SCD may be enough, but it will take a good long time on it's own-even with the yogurt IMO. I did some intensive things for yeast (and I had a terrible case) along with the diet and got relief very quickly. I haven't had that happen before ever. Maybe you need to incorporate other things into the diet? Also-does your homeopath treat your yeast at all? just curious...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I have been majorly sticking my head in the sand about yeast. I'm pretty sure it's a problem for dd1. Me, I don't know. I've never had a yeast infection. Does that mean I don't have a yeast problem? How would I know? Should I do the spit test?

DD had recurring yeast rashes almost all last summer. It looks like she's got one today. (Red all around her vulva.) How can I check?

I know I can give her No Fenol in between meals like in a drink to combat yeast right? I really know nothing much about it. What are the behavioral signs?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

behavioral signs for yeast are pretty broad -- mood swings, trouble sleeping, anxiety, acting drunk when eating sugar, high needs.

ff, we tried enzymes, but at least with the high protease one, ds gets way too hyper, even if he just gets it through my breast milk. My homeopath never really talked about yeast -- she just wanted to look for a constitutional remedy.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

ff--HOW did you do this with a 15 month old? they will not eat anything! plus they've been sick. i gave them raw cheese, but i have no idea how it's affected them because they've been sick. and me too. i feel like the diet is making me sick. i am just a mess.

they will not eat the broth. how much broth do you all eat? i force down at least three cups a day, usually more. mine's not great--i let it simmer 24 to 36 hours.

i really want some nuts. i had taken us off eggs, but because we had the illness, i don't know if it made a difference, and i was so starving today, we had eggs for breakfast. i don't think i felt better or worse. i want to add nuts (like the nut brownies or something), but it seems like an inappropriate thing to add. if we weren't on the diet, there's no way i'd be giving my girls nuts already, kwim? what do you all think about that?

i ordered enzymes (dh is going to kill me--i've been spending so much money pn food). maybe it'll make it easier to go to raw food. how soon did you all add raw food?

i'm just at a loss, and yesterday was hard--candy everywhere (but we didn't cheat). and everyone thinks i'm crazy to even be doing this (not that i've told many people).

at least there's no redness in the girls' diapers currently. that should be enough incentive to keep me going.

i just feel like this is a giant science experiment and my funding has run out!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Siana , artisticat and nicolena -







This _is_ difficult to start. Siana, I hope you find out what's really making you feel crappy. For me, die off kinda came and went a couple times. I never felt yucky consistently for more than a couple of days.

nicolena, I soooo know what you mean about feeding a toddler on this diet. (Well, my 12 mo. old anyway.) I'm so worried about what she's eating and not eating. (Though I worry less about what she's NOT getting 'cause she's still nursing.) I do know she's hungry though and wants more than the little bits I'm introducing so sloooowly.

artisticat - I break down and give dd1 non-scd foods often. She'll have organic cereal, I'll make her oatmeal, she adores granola bars, she eats *regular* bread and she drinks milk. I've gotten her adapted to my yogurt, raw milk, my crackers, and my muffins and cookies. She doesn't like my bread though! As far as the socializing goes, we don't do it much either but the people we do eat with at times know about us and the reasons we started this in the first place so they're all supportive yk?

I'm so excited I had to share this: I just found a local source for raw milk, butter, cream, grass fed beef, pastured chickens and eggs! I'm getting my first order tomorrow!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Just wanted to add that we will be doing some socializing soon, first this weekend, when we're driving out to see my aunt and uncle about three hours' drive, and then again in May when we're going to the NYC/New Jersey area to visit with my in-laws (without DH -- yikes!). The in-law visit will be harder, because it's longer and I don't know them very well. My aunt and uncle have a grandson with cystic fibrosis, so I think they will be understanding. I haven't actually told them, yet, though. About SCD, that is.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I'm glad they didn't talk about yeast! I was hoping you would say just that! I always get leary when people get a remedy for the yeast-it bugs me. THere are many things besides enzymes that will help with yeast. We did several. I never relied on just the diet because my yeast was so awful. I also didn't start using enzymes until after I had already kicked the yeast.

My 15 month old didn't eat at all. I mean at all. My initial posts were total freak-outs because she'd go for days without eating. The SCD changed that for us. I remember talking to Moneca on the phone jumping up and down because dd ate one of the hideous chicken pancakes. I was disgusted-but she ate it!

Almonds aren't actually classified as nuts-they are a fruit. Really many "nuts" are. I won't give them some nuts like peanuts (not actually a nut anyway) or cashews often at all. But I was very comfortable using almonds starting at 16 months.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

GaleForce--I used wheat for all sorts of baking--bread (non sourdough), desserts, pie crusts, etc.

firefaery--what did you do to treat your yeast problems?

I joined the pecanbread yahoo group and posted an intro there asking for any suggestions...pretty much everyone who posted said I shouldn't eat nuts at all while breast feeding because of the allergen potentional...what does everyone think of this? I gotta wonder how native people survived eating all these allergenic foods and didn't have any problems...obviously our environment is a little different today, but there's got to be more to it than "just avoid allergens for the first 3 years of your child's life", KWIM? Is the whole leaky gut thing the answer?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I deviated a bit here: I used GSE, chlorella, burdock root and a massive high dose 7 day probiotic from pharmax. I did a ton of greens (wheat grass, barley greens etc.) sea veggies and lemon juice in water a half hour before I ate every day. I used a TON of raw garlic (as food, as poultices) and onion. I worked really hard to alkalinize my body and reinstate beneficial bacteria but also used the GSE to kill off the yeast. I also used liquid oxygen to help with the killing...and pascalite to absorb the toxins. I think that's it. Oh, and L.glutamine.
Tanalbit is fabulous as is oregano oil, but not while nursing.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

I tend to agree, firefaery - although in native diets there wasn't nearly the diversity we have available now. They'd have only locally grown foods, whereas we get foods from around the globe. Maybe there's a connection there?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--do you know enough to recommend a fairly uncomplicated yeast killing program, maybe one with 2 or 3 different components? I'm planning on trying raw garlic (gonna chop it up real fine and stick it in capsules), and I don't want to use GSE. Any suggestions on what else I can do? I'm not very well informed on herbal stuff at all (so detailed instructions if possible







.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Does my new siggy *supermod* smilie mean I'm a supermodel or a supermom?







Either way, it's new and different and I think I'll keep it for a while.

Hey, Patty, where have you been?


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

caedmyn, ds has almost always had a nasty reaction to almonds, and I think it was because I had so much almond butter when I was pg. Leaky gut? Non-local non-organic almonds? I don't know. They give him the runs now, they used to give him constipation with major burn-like diaper rash.

Annikate, you could do the spit test -- let me know how it turns out -- and even your dd, if she wants to and knows how to spit, even just a little. Enzymes and antifungals help, as does cutting out molds and sweets, but then I haven't defeted my yeast yet.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Anyone else doing glucosamine? Any recs for what the product name/brand is?

Both glucosamine and chrondroitin are concentrated in the cartilage of bones...so *Nourishing Traditions* suggests eating the rich bits around chicken leg bones for example.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Anyone else doing glucosamine? Any recs for what the product name/brand is?

Both glucosamine and chrondroitin are concentrated in the cartilage of bones...so _Nourishing Traditions_ suggests eating the rich bits around chicken leg bones for example.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Also Shanna, for joint health (do you have RA?)

The Wulzen factor in raw dairy: http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Caedmyn,

RE: cooked food and enzyme content.

Cooking fruits and veggies are to break down the cellular walls, so that the simple sugars inside can be digested more easily. Cellulases in digestive enzyme capsules also do this, there are no cellulase enzymes in raw foods.

I think *some* raw foods are better. You know I'm a huge raw dairy person, as it contains lipase and other enzymes. Raw proteins are so easy to digest too. Avocado too has a large enzyme load. But raw nuts are hard on the gut and most raw vegetables and fruits (ex. ripe banana) doesn't have enough enzyme content to help you out very much.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Sally Fallon in NT even mentions having reservations about shellfish and pork.

I don't remember a shellfish warning?

Pork yes, as the proteins have been shown by research to cause blood changes and are implicated in cancer development. _Nourishing Traditions_ doesn't have any pork recipes. Lard (grassfed) aka pork fat, is recommended for the high vitamin D content.

Shellfish contains a lot of vitamin D and omega 3's, there was a good article about Maine shrimp a few months ago in the WAPF newsletter.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Re: carrots

A long time ago I posted a rant about my DS and carrots. He couldn't digest them and I didn't understand why they were on the Intro Diet.

Well I've since found that braising carrots in bone broth works! He digests them!

The gelatin in bone broths attract digestive juices b/c it is hydrophilic. I boil the carrots until soft in chicken bone broth with cover on, then remove cover and rapidly concentrate the broth until a thick sauce develops. Yummy.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
I joined the pecanbread yahoo group and posted an intro there asking for any suggestions...pretty much everyone who posted said I shouldn't eat nuts at all while breast feeding because of the allergen potentional...what does everyone think of this? I gotta wonder how native people survived eating all these allergenic foods and didn't have any problems...obviously our environment is a little different today, but there's got to be more to it than "just avoid allergens for the first 3 years of your child's life", KWIM? Is the whole leaky gut thing the answer?

Yes, it's only if your gut leaks that your child would be exposed to any nut proteins while bf'ing. I'm very surprised you got that answer at Pecanbread, they should know better!

It's not "allergenic foods" that are the problem, it's that our digestive system can't handle them!!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
behavioral signs for yeast are pretty broad -- mood swings, trouble sleeping, anxiety, acting drunk when eating sugar, high needs.

ff, we tried enzymes, but at least with the high protease one, ds gets way too hyper, even if he just gets it through my breast milk. My homeopath never really talked about yeast -- she just wanted to look for a constitutional remedy.

See yeast/bacterial link in the Cheat Sheet for symptoms descriptions.

Jen, I wonder if your problems are bacterial too, there's an interesting article regarding hyperness and proteases at Enzymestuff.com but I need to read it for the 49th time again to understand it...
http://www.enzymestuff.com/serotonin.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I have such a buzz right now... finishing Easter wine... La Crema chardonnay









Wine is SCD legal!!









I'm so psyched I can finally drink alcohol without staying awake with insomnia for half the night.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Siana*
I've taken a long break from this thread. It seems I don't have time or energy anymore. Anyway, I've been on SCD for almost a month, and I feel terrible. No chronic diarreha, very much reduced flatulence (flatulence everyday I start something new, then I take it out, try it a few days later and am fine) both great pluses, BUT I still have terrible brain fog, and feel generally yucky most days. I've been eating lots lately, all according to my appetite. I feel slugish. Perhaps today is especially bad because I was woken up early by the yelling of my 3-year-old who had a nightmare (something about how I didn't want her to see a video!)

Something is telling me this is a greater issue than die off. I suspect dairy. For three years I barely consumed much dairy (only cultured though), and now I'm downing it like crazy. Could this be a possible 'hidden' milk allergy? I'm going to the Naturopath (for the first time) in a week (finally!). I'll see what she says, and if she doesn't suggest it, I want testing done for this. Any thoughts?

I would think it's not necessarily what you need to "take away" from your diet as what you might need to "add".

You, along with most of us, are probably in a very deficient nutrient state, esp. minerals and B vitamins. For me I was "foggy-headed" this way for a while until I started healing and supplementing.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
My DH and I also don't tolerate lactose in pasteurized milk but neither of us have any issues with raw milk. Really! I think it must have something to do with the milk proteins being changed in pasturization.

It's because raw milk contains the enzyme lactase to digest lactose, the milk sugar. Also probiotics.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
I have such a buzz right now... finishing Easter wine... La Crema chardonnay

Wine is SCD legal!!

I'm so psyched I can finally drink alcohol without staying awake with insomnia for half the night.
You are so funny! And you can still post coherently.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

JaneS--so should I try to avoid nuts for a while? I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make at this point anyway...I ate a ton of peanut butter (probably easily a pound a week) while pregnant, and the first couple months of DD's life. I guess I could try to avoid it if it's necessary...but first I'm going to go make myself a pecan butter pancake so I at least get one treat in if I have to give the stuff up!

Also, does anybody know if any of the candida-fighting products out there really work (things like NOW's candida fighter or the Garden of Life Fungal Defense)?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Caedmyn~I'd be happy to help, but I need to know specifics about your situation. PM me.


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## michelle1k (Jul 7, 2002)

Hi ladies, I hope this is the right forum for me to come to - from what I have read, it sure seems that way.

I (dh too) have systemic yeast that I have passed on to my children (ds, almost 8 and dd, almost 4). My biggest worry is dd. She has severe eczema, now she appears to have a vaginal yeast infection as of today and here's the kicker: she has severe food aversions (due to sensory issues) so *she will not touch any of the permissable foods* on the lists. I have read the stickies on diet and candida, but I don't know what she will eat if I cut all the offending things out of her diet. With her food aversions, she would pretty much live off of breastmilk









Right now she eats: fresh, dried and frozen fruit (about 6 apples a day!), Ezekiel sprouted grain bread with low sugar spread, roasted almond butter, corn chips, tortillas, soy milk, homemade granola, raw carrots (occasionally), Tofurkey veggie deli slices (rarely), tofu (rarely), soy yogurt or greek-style dairy yogurt (with a bit of honey stirred in), pistachio and walnuts and anything that resembles dessert









I supplement her with Nordic Natural's Berry Keen, Juice Plus Veggie gummies, Floradix iron and herbs, Floradix children's multivitamin and Nature's Plus chewable calcium tablets.

I know my doctor will not take the yeast thing seriously. I have had her evaluated by an OT who has diagnosed some minor oral sensitivities, but even the suggestions for desensitizing her we have been given to try at home has made little, if any impact. We are working through a book on food aversions and how to get your child to eat, but it is painfully slow and her 4th birthday is coming up with no significant progress to report.

I am feeling extremely discouraged and at a loss here. I hope someone can help. Dh and I feel really exhausted from lack of sleep due to her eczema and mentally overwrought from living with dd's eating challenges (and behavioral challenges in my ds - no doubt also dietary related.)


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## ccasanova (Dec 18, 2003)

I have been debating whether or not to post here in the heal the gut tribe. I know you mamas are probably very far into this, and I'm a newbie asking questions, but I have decided to give my questions a try. First, from doing google searches I am suspecting that I might have a problem with my gut. I'm not sure if it is candida or just an imbalance of the good and bad bacteria. Or if what I mentioned above is the same thing??? I don't have the money to go see a naturopath to get it diagnosed if it is the case (candida) so I'm kinda on my own. First, if I am suspecting these things, is it ok for me to just go get a candida cleansing kit? Will this get rid of the problem if that is what I have? Which one is good and how will I know when all the candida out of my body. Also, if a imbalance of good/bad bacteria is the problem will taking probiotics fix the problem? Should I take the 2 products at the same time? I'm seeing what I think is a patch of ezema, dandruff, fungal skin infection, and some kind of rash near my belly button. Some of these things have been going on longer then others. But I never thought that it could be some problem of my gut. Can someone help? TIA!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Michelle--I'm definitely not an expert, but I'll try to help a bit. Some of the things your DD will eat are actually legal (fruit, almond butter, and yogurt). Have you looked at www.pecanbread.com? You may not be able to get her to do the intro diet, but you might be able to gradually transition her into eating all SCD legal foods and then at a later date do the intro diet for a few days. Will she eat pancakes? There are several recipes at pecanbread.com that mix various ingredients (chicken, veggies, etc) into pancakes. There are also some muffin and other dessert recipes. Will she eat applesauce? Can she do cow or goat yogurt?

I guess my best suggestion would be to try various legal dessert/muffin recipes, and when you figure out which of those she'll eat, then you can try to eliminate the illegal foods.

I know some of the other ladies here have a lot more experience with feeding picky kids, so hopefully someone else will be able to help you more.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
GaleForce--I used wheat for all sorts of baking--bread (non sourdough), desserts, pie crusts, etc.

Sprouting and drying is so much work but I am not a baker, so I don't have a lot of ideas. What I do when I do bake bread and other things is try to turn it into a sourdough. I made ginger bread for Easter and mixed the batter together, added a starter, and let it sit by the wood stove for 5 hours before I baked it. I added baking soda after it stewed. I haven't made a pie crust in ages. Unless they are a big part of your diet, I don't think I'd worry about it.

The other thing is that you'll still get some minerals even when you don't prepare it properly, you'll just maximize them if you prepare them to break down the phytates.

In terms of germination, I've seen some studies where they broke down the phytates pretty effectively, but others where they haven't. It must be an issue of germination conditions like temperature and such but I haven't seen explicit instructions on what conditions are best. If I find them I'll let you know.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

(((hugs))) michelle, my ds is a terribly peaky eater, with food aversions, as well, so I know how you feel. I actually don't have a whole lot of good advice, other than to second everything Amanda says about trying what's legal, especially the muffins and pancakes. As far as the supplements, go to www.pecanbread.com for a list of SCD legal supplements. Also, will she swallow a pill? Enzymes might help her -- see www.enzymestuff.com for more info about them.

cynthia, those kits mostly contain lots of herbs you can buy separately for cheaper. I'm currently just using garlic and enzymes for my yeasties, but can't get ds to try them. Also, if you don't also fix your diet, the yeasties just come back stronger, as I've learned the hard way. Take a look at the Candida FAQ link on Jane's cheat sheet (see 1st post in this thread).

Jane, I think you may be right about bacteria + yeast -- what do I do that will kill both in both of us? Oh, and I definitely will try the banana thing -- and maybe yogurt, but lately ds has been refusing it.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Michelle, we had the same issues. Dd did live off of bm. There is a section on www.pecanbread.com titles somthing like "what if my child still won't eat?" I found that after taking away all the probelm foods she did venture forth and eat legal things. She had some deficiencies that made it so that she didn't recognize hunger. She'd be cranky, but didn't understand that food would help. She also had some sensory issues. I just made a bunch of things for the first couple days and followed her around with food. Every so often I would sneak a bite in. AFter a couple of weeks she was willing to feed herself and as the deficiencies cleared up (not there yet!) she's starting to recognize hunger on her own. It's been almost a year, but we're getting there!
My advice would be to try different things, but keep it super simple. Picky eater don't like funky recipes. Let her go at her own pace and TRUST HER. SHe's not eating much because she is having a problem. It is up to you as mommy to fix it, but she does have some built in survival mechanisms that should be respected. That doesn't mean giving in, but it does mean getting pretty analytical to decipher her code. Good Luck! And welcome. Just know that you aren't the first to walk that road, It's very frustrating, but when you get answers it's also very rewarding!


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

ff, your post about your dd brought tears to my eyes, you are such a great mama for persevering. My ds also is a picky eater, so I can relate

Someone was asking how to tell if you have adrenal problems. Just found that there is a test, but you need a blood pressure cuff: Lying down and resting for five minutes, taking your blood pressure, then standing immediately and taking the blood pressure again can assess low adrenal function. The higher number of the blood pressure measurement should read at least ten points greater upon standing, than it was when lying down. If your blood pressure is not 10 points greater or if it goes down when you stand up, reduced adrenal function is suspect. The degree of hypoadrenalism is often proportionate to the degree the blood pressure drops. See: http://www.nspforum.com/faq/index.cgi?read=901 (it's about B vitamins, but they talk about how b deficiencies are hard on the adrenals)

Does anyone know of an SCD-legal, whole foods based B complex?


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

well, i took the spit test. right away there were little strings hanging down. yuck! ok, so i guess i do have a yeast problem. i just got some enzymes, so i'm going to start taking those. now to find a way to take raw garlic... ugh. i like garlic, but not raw. do garlic caps work as well? or maybe i'll try that oil of oregano...

after 3 weeks on a low carb, nt diet with kefir everyday i no longer seem to be having gas and indigestion. and -TMI HERE- my bm's no longer contain undigested food particles. my ebf ds now has nice yellow bf poop instead of greenish yellow allergy poop. yay!

so i'm hoping this means my leaky gut/malabsorption issues are clearing up, but obviously i still have a yeast problem so time to address that more directly...

sigh... when will i be *healthy* ???

R


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

vaquitita--I chop up raw garlic really fine and put it in empty capsules--just don't let them sit very long as the garlic eats away at the capsules. Also, you can't take oil of oregano while nursing (I found that out after I bought a bottle of it).


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## Vaquitita (Mar 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
vaquitita--I chop up raw garlic really fine and put it in empty capsules--just don't let them sit very long as the garlic eats away at the capsules. Also, you can't take oil of oregano while nursing (I found that out after I bought a bottle of it).

how much garlic do you take a day? is one clove enough?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I just started taking it...I would think 1 clove would be good but I'm just guessing.


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## moss (Feb 7, 2004)

hope it's okay if i just jump in here. we're starting the scd soon. we've been feingold for over 3 yrs, gfcfsf with a NT slant since last july and now it's definitely time to get serious on healing some guts!

I have a few questions about the finer points of the scd.

Nutritional yeast~is it okay? i looked on the pecanbread listserve and it seems like pple have just arbitrarily lumped it in with active yeast and have said it's illegal based on yeast being illegal. there's no 'bad' yeast in nutritional yeast, i just dont know what kind of sugars it contains if any. we rely really heavily on nutritional yeast as a cheeze sub and for our b-vites. i dont really want to give it up.

Stevia~it's listed as illegal. gottshall talks about it in terms of being a steroid, yet she says: Stevia may be used in minuscule amounts in supplements. - Elaine 10/11/04 Generally, stevia is used in miniscule amounts in the first place, so can i use it? i try to keep the carbs down in the first place, because sugars suppress the immune system. stevia is such a useful tool, i really want to keep using it.

and why on earth are legumes like lentils and peanuts legal? they're sooo starchy! the book i have just says that they dont seem to cause any problems so they're okay?







i dont get it. arent there polysaccharides in legumes?


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Lots more new people here!








Moss, I'm wondering the same thing about the lentils. JaneS or firefaery will know.









I'm here to post about my SUPER AWESOME DELICIOUS yogurt that I made with my new source of raw milk. I dunno what I was getting before but this milk looks, smells and tastes good. It's a darker yellow than my other source and the yogurt is so good I can eat it without adding any fruit or honey. It's still tart, but not as tart as the old stuff. Anyone know why? Does this mean the yogurt itself isn't as good if it's not as tart?

I got cream and butter too. I'm making the yogurt-ized cream right now and can't wait to try it!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Elaine says that some starches can be tolerated...they are all in the legume family. Dried beans, lentils and split peas. The ones that you can have must be soaked, and the soak water discarded because it will contain undigestible sugars. You have to wait until the third month or so of the diet to introduce them-funny though-I never see her lump peanuts in with legumes...odd.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Oh, and just out of curiosity...how many people are doing SCD with fanatical adherence right now? I'm having a hard time keeping track...


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Well, I was doing SCD with fanatical adherence, that is until Easter. And now all this week it seems I've slipped up more and more. I was on it off and on for a couple months and this last time I did it slow and fanatically for 2 weeks. Still have tons of gas issues that never went away. Trying to figure this all out is hard work!!

Right now I am trying to decide which minerals to start with first (money is tight) Should I just start with a multi? I live in Michigan which is Selenium deficient and I could be low in Magnesium. So confused on whether to do a CAL/Mag combo or just Mag. I try and eat bone broths every day and i was eating yogurt every morning. Lately though everything sounds yucky to me. I don't want yogurt or kefir or any of my ferments. Nothing really sounds good (usually I am always hungry) Wonder what that means? Don't know wether it is bad or good. I do seem really thirsty too.

I tried coconut water kefir and pudding and







. I made it from scratch and it didn't seem to be spoiled. I also used kefir grains for the coconut water. Everyone says it tasstes so good. Hmmmm.

Oh and Jane-- what is EPO good for besides excema? I think I read that you were taking it too? What is it supposed to help or give again?

Still not sure on the Betaine HCI though. Has anyone tried it with success? I am really considering to just go and try it.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Yup, doing SCD with fanatical adherence, though I'm really starting to get into NT ideas. But for now both dd2 and I are strict SCD'ers. (With the exception of a few supplements.) So . . . I guess that doesn't really make us fanatical eh?









ETAsk: How old were all your dcs when you began giving them CLO?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

ds was four months and dd was one month. We did it at the advice of several practitioners...they got it directly, not just through bm.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

firefaery, I'm already giving dd1 1/4-1/2 teaspoon in her o.j. Do you think my 12 mo. old could start w/1/4 tsp.?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

What kind are you using? DIfferent ages require different things...for my one month old I had to use a very low vitamin, low EPA high DHA brand. The quantity will depend on the brand, it makes a difference...


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Oh yeah, that makes sense. I have Nordic Naturals. I'd go read the box right now but dh is doing the nighttime thing w/dd1.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

I guess I would say I'm doing SCD with fanatical adherence...I haven't cheated at all or eaten "advanced" foods, although at least one of my supplements is illegal.

OK, question for those of you who have been doing gut-healing for a bit...how long did it take you to see changes in yourself or your DC? I'm not sure anything's changed with me or DD, although it's only been 10 days so maybe I'm just too impatient.

Does anyone know if doing a colon cleanse is a good idea with gut healing or might help things along? I still have gas so I'm not sure if there's stuff that needs to come out (that's gross, I know!), or if I'm adding too much new food or what. I've only added half a dozen fruits/veggies, plus the nut butter. Part of the problem is I have no idea how to tell whether I'm going too fast or not--since nothing seems to be changing and I don't have any digestive symptoms other than gas, how can I tell? DD still has circles under her eyes, diaper rash, and had some green poop yesterday. I may have to try eliminating eggs or nuts to see if she is reacting to one of those, but I'm going to try to do some yeast-killing first to see if that helps.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

firefaery, I know some of your supps aren't strict SCD, how about the rest?
I've been considering adding millet or quinoa to my diet.


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## birthjunkie27 (Jul 6, 2005)

I've been reading through all the posts here and on the excema tribe, but I still have lots of questions.

Some quick background. Dd, 4 mos, has had excema since she was 4 wks old. Just 2 days ago I finally figured out what must have caused it. She was hospitalized at 10 days old for a fever, and she was given a course of antibiotics through an IV for 48 hours straight as a "precautionary measure". Turns out she just had the flu, but they wanted to cover their butts I guess.







: Anyways, I'm learning now about how antibiotics kill or imbalance the flora in the gut and that is why she now has food allergies (wheat, eggs, dairy, gluten) despite being exclusively bf and no history of family food allergies or excema.

Been to the Dr. so many times and finally last week started getting some answers, after lots of pointless visits where I left just as clueless as when we walked in. Anyways, Dr. took a sample of skin flakes from her face and examined them and said it is yeast. So, I'm trying to understand...*is the yeast a result of the flora imbalance? If we beat the yeast, does that mean her food allergies will go away?*

I've been off of dairy for 6 wks, off of eggs for 4 wks, and off of wheat and gluten as well now for over 2 wks, with some improvement, and then gone back to square one as far as how bad the excema is. This diet is really really hard on me, as food has always played a big role in my life. And it's discouraging that she's not getting any better.

I am giving her probiotics and I'm taking omega 3 supplements. *How else can I help heal her gut? I've been reading here and there about an SCD. Can someone give me a simple rundown of how this diet works? Do *I* have to do the diet since I am bf'in her? How long? How soon will we see results?*

Do I keep avoiding the foods she's sensitive to? What happens if I eat something she's sensitive too? How much worse can she get? She's still in horrible shape, so it seems to me like this elim. diet is doing no good.

She has VERY weepy skin in the evening and through the night. It soaks whatever she's wearing and by the morning her face is so crusted that she can't even smile or it hurts her.







And she only seems to be getting worse. It's spreading to other parts of her body where she didn't have it before.

I'm at a loss.....I'm in despair....my heart is aching seeing her like this and not knowing what more I can do! I cry every day over this, and it's just so draining. The elim diet combined with the guilt and despair.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

birthjunkie--Your poor DD! I'm so sorry she is going through this...I'm not an expert by any means but from what I've read it sounds like the SCD and gut healing can help your DD. Yes, you would have to do the diet since you are BF'ing. But...from what I've read on elimination diets, the SCD will probably be easier for you and a lot healthier. Some of the others on this thread can tell you more, but several have said their DC had multiple food allergies and once they got going on the diet, most or even all of the food allergies went away. And yes the SCD can help with yeast, but you may also want to do a separate protocol of enzymes and/or other yeast killers to help speed healing along.

Basically the SCD eliminates all grains and starches. Most people do use dairy but you can do it without and later try to add dairy in again and see how she does. Have you looked at www.pecanbread.com? That lists a basic "intro diet" that doesn't contain dairy. It also has different stages of foods to introduce depending on how far along you are on the diet. You don't have to stick to that but it is helpful for me as I do better if I have some sort of guideline to follow. You can still have desserts, just make them with nut butter or eventually nut flour, and honey. For me the diet was very very difficult the first day (I only did one day of the intro diet), and the next couple were pretty hard, but then I got into a routine (and added some more foods) and it isn't bad at all now. I've found some recipes that are pretty good and I don't feel too deprived any more.

I have only being doing the SCD for about 10 days, and I can't say I've seen any results yet, but our problems are pretty mild compared to many of the ones here. I know several people with more severe problems said they saw results very quickly, within a few days.

Probiotics are great but you need really really strong ones to be effective. There are supposed to be a few brands that are good, although I don't remember which ones, but most people use 24 hour homemade cow or goat yogurt--the long culturing gets rid of the lactose and helps break down the milk proteins, plus the yogurt has tons and tons of probiotics in it. Pecanbread.com recommends doing the diet for a few weeks and I think taking a probiotic supplement before adding goat milk yogurt to allow time for some healing to take place (that website is designed for autistic kids, and so their dietary recommendations are a little different than the regular SCD). Cod liver oil is a great supplement for you to take, and I believe at 4 weeks you can also give it to your DD. The good brands are Radiant Life Blue Ice, and I think Nordic Naturals (there's another brand too but I can't remember what the name of it is). Don't get Carlson's--they take the natural vitamins out and replace them with synthetic versions. Virgin or extra virgin coconut oil is also great for healing--you can use it in all your cooking and baking.

Hopefully this helps...like I said I'm not an expert but I wanted to at least try to answer some of your questions and hopefully you will be able to get your DD on the road to healing.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

No-we are strict with foods, but there are some things *I* know to be beneficial in terms of supplements, so we take enzymes with them. I don't think I'm a fanatical adherent.

Quinoa baffles me because it's a seed-not a grain. In the book she says that she hasn't analyzed the "new" grains on the market and references quinoa as being one of them. But it's NOT a grain. Based on the theory behind the book, I'd say if you are tolerating seeds, use your judgement.

Birth Junkie-Jane would be a great person to talk to about the eczema. I will tell you that we had blood tests to confirm over 35 alleriges in my kids (between the two of them) and doing the SCD we didn't have to avoid the known allergens. The food isn't damaging the gut, so avoiding it or including it doesn't make a difference in the healing. I did avoid eggs for ds, not because it would have slowed healing, but because I couldn't deal with his reactions (behavioral) You do have to do it if you're breastfeeding, but that is a good thing. The only way a baby reacts to breastmilk is if mama is leaking proteins. Your baby is telling you that you have healing to do as well!

Caedmyn-I'm pming you after this, but I'll answer what's relevant to everyone here. I saw a difference immediately, but I guess I'll have to qualify that. Dd was in BAD shape, as was I. The rashes took awhile to competely go, but my bowel function was noticably different within a couple of weeks, as was dd's. Her sleep patterns changed after some time, but ds's changed within the first month or so. Dd's disposition changed within the first month, but it was a slight change...it took longer for others to notice. I think it was legitimately 3-4 months before I could say, "WOW. This is a whole different ballgame."

Cleanses can be very beneficial, but not if your gut is newly or badly damaged. You really should wait until you've done some significant healing or you could cause problems. i used to do colonics, which I stopped when things got really bad. I hope to do some again after this babe is born. I believe you should really have NO symptoms of gut damage before doing anything like that. Then clear away the sludge and continue healing. Of course that is ONLY my opinion. But there you go.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

If you are doing the SCD and feel like *cheating* . . . .
DON'T!

I foolishly ate some Terra brand organic vegetable sticks (taro root, sweet potatoes, safflower oil, sea salt). I figured how bad can it really be for me?

Well. I was up half the night throwing it all up w/subsequent diarhea this morning.







I'm glad my body did its best to rid itself of this stuff. I just hope it doesn't affect dd.







:

A good lesson learned. Guess I won't be introducing grains any time soon. . .


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Oh, Annikate, that's terrible! Sorry to hear you found out the hard way starches aren't working for you right now.

As far as fanatical adherence, I was doing well until I went to my Aunt and Uncle's, where I ate soup that was made with some canned tomatoes. And I have gas now to show for it! Boy, visiting relatives can be rough!

Moss, I've heard that if there is a yeast issue, brewer's yeast is not a good idea, as it feeds the yeast. Also, anyone with allergies to mold or yeast can have a problem with it. But I don't see it on the legal/illegal list on Elaine's website. Let us know if you find out for sure somewhere, but generally yeasts are illegal for the aforementioned reasons.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Most sources say that nut. and brewer's yeast are fine and don't feed yeast. All I can tell you is that every time, without exception, I eat either one I get a raging yeast infection.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Most sources say that nut. and brewer's yeast are fine and don't feed yeast. All I can tell you is that every time, without exception, I eat either one I get a raging yeast infection.

Yes, I couldn't tolerate either.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Yikes Terri, that's awful!!!! I hope you feel better today.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birthjunkie27*







I've been reading through all the posts here and on the excema tribe, but I still have lots of questions.

Some quick background. Dd, 4 mos, has had excema since she was 4 wks old. Just 2 days ago I finally figured out what must have caused it. She was hospitalized at 10 days old for a fever, and she was given a course of antibiotics through an IV for 48 hours straight as a "precautionary measure". Turns out she just had the flu, but they wanted to cover their butts I guess.







: Anyways, I'm learning now about how antibiotics kill or imbalance the flora in the gut and that is why she now has food allergies (wheat, eggs, dairy, gluten) despite being exclusively bf and no history of family food allergies or excema.

Been to the Dr. so many times and finally last week started getting some answers, after lots of pointless visits where I left just as clueless as when we walked in. Anyways, Dr. took a sample of skin flakes from her face and examined them and said it is yeast. So, I'm trying to understand...*is the yeast a result of the flora imbalance? If we beat the yeast, does that mean her food allergies will go away?*

I've been off of dairy for 6 wks, off of eggs for 4 wks, and off of wheat and gluten as well now for over 2 wks, with some improvement, and then gone back to square one as far as how bad the excema is. This diet is really really hard on me, as food has always played a big role in my life. And it's discouraging that she's not getting any better.

I am giving her probiotics and I'm taking omega 3 supplements. *How else can I help heal her gut? I've been reading here and there about an SCD. Can someone give me a simple rundown of how this diet works? Do *I* have to do the diet since I am bf'in her? How long? How soon will we see results?*

Do I keep avoiding the foods she's sensitive to? What happens if I eat something she's sensitive too? How much worse can she get? She's still in horrible shape, so it seems to me like this elim. diet is doing no good.

She has VERY weepy skin in the evening and through the night. It soaks whatever she's wearing and by the morning her face is so crusted that she can't even smile or it hurts her.







And she only seems to be getting worse. It's spreading to other parts of her body where she didn't have it before.

I'm at a loss.....I'm in despair....my heart is aching seeing her like this and not knowing what more I can do! I cry every day over this, and it's just so draining. The elim diet combined with the guilt and despair.

Yes, her gut colonization has been damaged by the antibiotics. And thus her immune system is damaged.
http://www.massbfc.org/formula/bottle.html

Give her bifidus only, this is the dominent bacteria in ebf babes, until they start eating solids. Lifestart from Natren is good:
http://netriceuticals.com/listing.asp?id=149

What omega 3 are you taking and how much? You can try rubbing her skin with evening primrose too, not necessarily the damaged parts but her back or something so it will absorb. All this takes time. I would give the bifidus at least 3x day.

Do you have any digestive symptoms? Are you taking probiotics too? The fats in your diet are key... no vegetable oils as they contain a surfeit of omega 6's. Trans fats block omega 3 fatty acids as well. The oils and fats you eat directly influence the fats in your milk. Use only olive oil (unheated or slightly heated), coconut oil, butter or ghee (that is casein free), animal fats, nuts and nut oils, avocados... these are the healthy fats that the immune system is built upon.

Food did not necessarily cause this by itself and that is why just an elimination diet is not going to work. It rather more complex than that and I'm still learning after 2 years myself!


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## birthjunkie27 (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
What omega 3 are you taking and how much?

Do you have any digestive symptoms? Are you taking probiotics too?


I'm taking Sundown Fish Oil 1000mg, high in omega-3 fatty aicds.

I also just started taking Garden of Life Primal Defense HSO probiotic. *Is there such a thing as too much probiotic?* I've been giving Samara Udo's Choice Infant's Blend Probiotic, which as I'm reading it it only contains 15% bifidobacterium infantis. I give her about 1 tsp a day. I dip my finger in it and let her suck it, and this is how she takes it.

I don't think I have any digestive symptoms. Nothing I have ever eaten ever really bothers me. I'm pretty regular, rarely have diahrrea (not sure how to spell it).

*What do you think of grapefruit seed extract?* I bought some yesterday, but haven't done anything with it yet.

*In your experiences how long did it take to see dramatic results in your child? And how long before your child's food sensitivities went away? Is it safe to say that once her yeast is cleared up, she will be over the food sensitivities or will it take much longer for her gut to properly heal?* The elim diet is taking a toal on me, my husband, my whole family. I'm the only one who's on the diet, but I am verry crabby, and my whole family suffers.







I can't imagine eliminating sugar and rice too, on the scd. I've already cut back on sugar but it's so hard not having many food options.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *birthjunkie27*
The elim diet is taking a toal on me, my husband, my whole family. I'm the only one who's on the diet, but I am verry crabby, and my whole family suffers. I can't imagine eliminating sugar and rice too, on the scd. I've already cut back on sugar but it's so hard not having many food options.
Elimination diets are soooo hard & they don't do anything to improve your health either. When I started SCD (after the TED) I was in heaven! I could finally eat again. Despite not getting nearly enough sleep or exercise, I feel great. The SCD has changed our lives profoundly. I am so grateful to have stumbled upon it through MDC.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birthjunkie27*
I'm taking Sundown Fish Oil 1000mg, high in omega-3 fatty aicds.

Only one? You should be taking at least 6 or more.

_Sundown® Fish Oil 1000mg (180 mg EPA, 120 mg DHA per softgel, 2-6 per day)*_

Also, there is a general warning against fish oils from certain companies in capsules. They have tested to be rancid because of heat processing ... and rancid oil is very dangerous, contains free radicals. Personally I only go with cod liver oil from trusted sources, for the vitamins too. One tablespoon of CLO for bf'ing mothers. I don't know anything about the Sundown brand or the manner of processing.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birthjunkie27*
I also just started taking Garden of Life Primal Defense HSO probiotic. *Is there such a thing as too much probiotic?* I've been giving Samara Udo's Choice Infant's Blend Probiotic, which as I'm reading it it only contains 15% bifidobacterium infantis. I give her about 1 tsp a day. I dip my finger in it and let her suck it, and this is how she takes it.

I don't think I have any digestive symptoms. Nothing I have ever eaten ever really bothers me. I'm pretty regular, rarely have diahrrea (not sure how to spell it).

*What do you think of grapefruit seed extract?* I bought some yesterday, but haven't done anything with it yet.


I'm not sure on the Udo's Choice as it contains acidophilus and thermophilus.
http://www.vitacost.com/UdosChoiceInfantsBlendProbiotic

My DS is still not doing well so at least you can learn from some of my mistakes! (don't do FOS or acidophilus when ebf)

Grapefruit seed extract kills beneficial bacteria in addition to the bad bacteria/yeast. I would not give it to babe. I would not take it yourself if you are not having yeast symptoms.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
OK, question for those of you who have been doing gut-healing for a bit...how long did it take you to see changes in yourself or your DC? I'm not sure anything's changed with me or DD, although it's only been 10 days so maybe I'm just too impatient.

Does anyone know if doing a colon cleanse is a good idea with gut healing or might help things along? I still have gas so I'm not sure if there's stuff that needs to come out (that's gross, I know!), or if I'm adding too much new food or what. I've only added half a dozen fruits/veggies, plus the nut butter. Part of the problem is I have no idea how to tell whether I'm going too fast or not--since nothing seems to be changing and I don't have any digestive symptoms other than gas, how can I tell? DD still has circles under her eyes, diaper rash, and had some green poop yesterday. I may have to try eliminating eggs or nuts to see if she is reacting to one of those, but I'm going to try to do some yeast-killing first to see if that helps.

I noticed a significant change within a week or two, all my gas was gone. With my DS, well, 8 months on SCD hasn't seemed to help all that much!! His stools tests did show the carb loving bacteria has been eliminated (Klebsiella) but not the protein loving ones (Proteus) so I think that is our issue.

Are you doing digestive enzymes? I'd do those before cleanses. I've never done one myself, so I'm not much help.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

DS was 8 months old when we started CLO for his eczema upon advice of ND. He got 1/2 tsp/day.

The more I read about CLO and ADD and autism, I'm sure this was one of the things that I actually did right and saved his brain.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Well, I was doing SCD with fanatical adherence, that is until Easter. And now all this week it seems I've slipped up more and more. I was on it off and on for a couple months and this last time I did it slow and fanatically for 2 weeks. Still have tons of gas issues that never went away. Trying to figure this all out is hard work!!

Right now I am trying to decide which minerals to start with first (money is tight) Should I just start with a multi? I live in Michigan which is Selenium deficient and I could be low in Magnesium. So confused on whether to do a CAL/Mag combo or just Mag. I try and eat bone broths every day and i was eating yogurt every morning. Lately though everything sounds yucky to me. I don't want yogurt or kefir or any of my ferments. Nothing really sounds good (usually I am always hungry) Wonder what that means? Don't know wether it is bad or good. I do seem really thirsty too.

Oh and Jane-- what is EPO good for besides excema? I think I read that you were taking it too? What is it supposed to help or give again?

Still not sure on the Betaine HCI though. Has anyone tried it with success? I am really considering to just go and try it.

Selenium is cheap, just get the yeast free selenomethione version. And I was just reading that butter is good source of selenium, who da thought!

I totally love Natural Calm Magnesium, Firefaery's rec.

I didn't feel like eating when I had gas too, that could be it, your system is just not accepting of food right now.

I took the EPO (less now) for my bladder issue (interstitial cystitis), it helped a great deal, I assume with tissue integrity. More info here: http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyour...linolenic.html

I find that article so interesting for the "obligate carnivore" hypothesis. Based on my abysmal health after vegetarian diet, I'm sure I'm one of them.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
Oh, and just out of curiosity...how many people are doing SCD with fanatical adherence right now? I'm having a hard time keeping track...

Me no longer







:

Been doing little cheats for a while, like canned tomatoes, raw non fermented cream, chevre.
Started NT soaked grains and am doing fabulously!
Always enzymes.

I really like Thropp's Ultra-Zyme, they seem to be pretty strong and cheapest all around:
http://www.throppsnutrition.com/ps_ultrazyme.htm


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vaquitita*
after 3 weeks on a low carb, nt diet with kefir everyday i no longer seem to be having gas and indigestion. and -TMI HERE- my bm's no longer contain undigested food particles. my ebf ds now has nice yellow bf poop instead of greenish yellow allergy poop. yay!

so i'm hoping this means my leaky gut/malabsorption issues are clearing up, but obviously i still have a yeast problem so time to address that more directly...

sigh... when will i be *healthy* ???

R

That's very good progress!!









It's really hard, I know! But I look at it this way, I've learned SO MUCH about nutrition and it's connection with health through this whole journey that I never ever would have discovered. Or found the commitment to change. I'm actually grateful for it. Well, most of the time (not on days when DS is hitting me and not sleeping, sigh).

I really did see significant healing from kefir right before I did SCD. Then all of a sudden, kefir started tasting gross to me and I craved yogurt.

I've been doing a lot of thinking as to why DS is not getting better and I am and kefir is one of the things I did differently than he.

It's so hard to say which is the best probiotic. The information is so conflicting.

I've been so down on HSO's and Jordan Rubin as I'm sure you know. But then my WAPF Chapter Leader (who has become a friend I see almost every week for playdates) really believes in them, has personally seen benefits with herself and her DH, and uses them with her clients. (She is a nutritional consultant.)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Jane, I think you may be right about bacteria + yeast -- what do I do that will kill both in both of us? Oh, and I definitely will try the banana thing -- and maybe yogurt, but lately ds has been refusing it.

I think enzymes are the easiest choice, the proteases for the bacteria and the cellulases for the yeast. 3x day in between meals if you can. The problem with "killers" is that so little is known about them, what exactly they kill and whether they work in vivo, b/c the are just tested in vitro. Plus one is always not so sure which strains you have, even with stool testing.

Maybe a change in probiotics is necessary? Consider Sacc. boulardii or the beneficial yeasts in kefir. Or dare I now say it and eat my previous words ... HSO's. As you can tell, the idea that SCD can fix absolutely everything is completely disproven by my DS! And he has never even had advanced foods like dried fruits or beans since becoming fanatical last Sept.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ccasanova*
I have been debating whether or not to post here in the heal the gut tribe. I know you mamas are probably very far into this, and I'm a newbie asking questions, but I have decided to give my questions a try. First, from doing google searches I am suspecting that I might have a problem with my gut. I'm not sure if it is candida or just an imbalance of the good and bad bacteria. Or if what I mentioned above is the same thing??? I don't have the money to go see a naturopath to get it diagnosed if it is the case (candida) so I'm kinda on my own. First, if I am suspecting these things, is it ok for me to just go get a candida cleansing kit? Will this get rid of the problem if that is what I have? Which one is good and how will I know when all the candida out of my body. Also, if a imbalance of good/bad bacteria is the problem will taking probiotics fix the problem? Should I take the 2 products at the same time? I'm seeing what I think is a patch of ezema, dandruff, fungal skin infection, and some kind of rash near my belly button. Some of these things have been going on longer then others. But I never thought that it could be some problem of my gut. Can someone help? TIA!









What are your gut symptoms? I'll make it less embarrassing for you... you don't have to answer me if you don't want to.







If you are not having 1-3 solid brown comfortable bm's a day, with no discernible food particles, and no gas or bloating or indigestion, then you have a problem.

Yes probiotics are essential for healing any gut issue and especially gut flora problems. In very large amounts, that is why homemade 24 hr yogurt or kefir is so great, there's a higher bacterial count in one teaspoon than most capsules on the market.

Echoing my previous post to Jen... this is where enzymes really excell... if you don't know what bad bugs you are fighting. Taking enzymes between meals fights the bad bugs and gut inflammation.

The fats in your diet also might need some looking at for the skin issues.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
JaneS--so should I try to avoid nuts for a while? I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make at this point anyway...I ate a ton of peanut butter (probably easily a pound a week) while pregnant, and the first couple months of DD's life. I guess I could try to avoid it if it's necessary...but first I'm going to go make myself a pecan butter pancake so I at least get one treat in if I have to give the stuff up!

Not sure what to say... perhaps stick to the nuts that are easier to digest like pecans and almonds for now?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Is there anything I can do to minimize die-off reactions? I'm going to start enzymes again soon and they made DD really cranky last time I tried them, even though they didn't bother me. Would epsom salt baths help her if I took them (she's EBF)?


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## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Another ? here
I have been taking Candidase for almost a week and have a few new "symptoms" and am wondering if they are related. The rash (yeasty) on my underarms is worse and I have constant "cotton mouth". Is this things getting worse before getting better? Any suggestions?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Caedmyn-pascalite clay! It will absorb and transport all the nastiness and clear things out for you. It really minimizes the reaction. I have posted alot about it on this thread (whenever anyone asks about die-off) it's very safe and relatively cheap-about $10 for a pound. It's something else I always have on hand. It's a calcium based (as opposed to sodium based) clay. IT's great for MANY things, but die off, diarrhea and vomitting are the top ones in my book. It's fabulous. Different than bentonite, so google it and find the specific "brand."

unfortunately the one thing you can count on is things getting worse before they get better! Are you doing anything topically for the rash to make yourself more comfortable?


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## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Well, I was using some topical yeast cream, but I can't really tell if it has helped at all. I also used TTO diluted in distilled water, but it didn't do much either. The general dampness of my underarms makes it worse, so changing shirts often is helpful. Plus I am stinky because it's hot now. Any ideas? I quit using any sort of deoderant.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I honestly don't work for or profit from them in any way...but pascalite. IT really is a multi tasker. IT will absorb any dampness and smell, and is quite healing to skin. On dd's yeast rashes (when we had them) I sprayed colloidal silver, let it dry and then sprinkled pascalite clay. Works every time! I doscovered this wheh TTO stopped working. IT has never failed us.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

firefaery--do you take baths w/the clay or how do you use it? Also, what type of cultured foods did you eat once you were done with the probiotics? Like NT style stuff, ginger carrots, etc?


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## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *firefaery*
I honestly don't work for or profit from them in any way...but pascalite. IT really is a multi tasker. IT will absorb any dampness and smell, and is quite healing to skin. On dd's yeast rashes (when we had them) I sprayed colloidal silver, let it dry and then sprinkled pascalite clay. Works every time! I doscovered this wheh TTO stopped working. IT has never failed us.

Cool. I have read about it a few times here, but didn't really absorb it because of product and information overload


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Did anyone ever mention what to do for kidney and liver support?


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## lilsishomemade (Feb 12, 2005)

Hi Everyone! Wow, this is a long thread







I'm subbing, though, and hope that maybe I can find a little guidance here...

A little background: I've had eczema all of my life, and have had several allergy tests, and my allergies seem to change over the years...Anyhow, it's really bad right now, and my dermatologist has said that there's really nothing else he can do for me









I'm nursing right now, and he seems to be always stuffy. Like, last night, I had to have him sleep in his carrier so that his head was really elevated. It breaks my heart.

My oldest is a very spirited child, and has a lot of issues with his anger. He will just scream at the very top of his lungs sometimes for no reason. He has a hard time concentrating, and just seems unhappy quite a bit.

My middle child has, since birth, had off and on problems with gas. I mean, awful gas, that smells like rotten eggs. When he is having a gas problem, he'll burp about every 5-10 minutes. He and his older brother also have a problem with occasional diarrhea for no apparent reason, that clears up.

I really feel we have gut issues. I just don't know where to start!! We don't have the $$ to go see a specialist, and the research is great, but a lot of it is hard for me to follow along...

Anyone have advice for where the best place for us to start might be?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

re: pascalite. Depends on what it's for. I've never bathed in it...I have used it as a poultice, or as a deoderant-I brush my teeth with it, use it on insect bites, as a facial mask, as a supplement. Depends what you need. For the underarm thing, I just put a bit in my palm and rub it in as needed









Yup-NT style cultured foods. My favorite is saurkraut, but Jane has posted some yummy recipes on the SCD recipe thread.

There are many things for liver and kidney support-depends on your situation (whether you're nursing or pregnant, on any meds, what the support is for etc.)


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Sorry Caedmyn-that was less than specific. For die off you do it as a supplement. Maybe 3 times a day (if you feel that you need that much) in a bit of water. I never did more than that, never felt I needed to.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Hey Mamas,

Question? Or 3.

We are doing SCD w/fanatical adherence. I'm doing great, until I had a tincture made w/gluten containing alcohol, sigh. So, looks like I'm back at the beginning again.

My 4 yr old, seems to be making no progress whatsoever.







And he is the one I'm most worried about. He nurses and I think that might be a "problem" for the killing of the beasties. He poops once a day, always soft, not diarrhea, perse, but soft. Always comes out like a long snake until the end when it loses even the snake form and just has a lil' pile of it in the toilet. Obviously he streaks the toilet every time.







His cheeks are red often (not sure if its the enzymes or not--although we haven't been fanatical about them at all), and he has a big ol' red and painful ring around his anus. We've tried the diet w/no fruit and honey for up to a week w/him, and still, nada w/the cheeks and bum. We've discussed stopping b/fing for a time as well as stopping fruit and honey, and being fanatical about the enzymes----he is very open to this. He wants to stop being so limited. Thoughts?

Should I be using enzymes before I eat yogurt? I always have this picture in my mind of the enzymes eating all the good bacteria---whadda you think?

Any problem w/mixing the 3 houston's together and just giving yourself a scoop of that mixture????

Oh, and I really want to start taking something for my cancer. The problem, the 2 supplements I'm looking at both have illegials, rice bran, maltodextrin and the like. I need some guidance on this one. According to Patient Heal Thyself, Rubin recommends staying away from grains for 6-12 months for those w/celiac disease, so I'm hesitant to try anything w/rice bran in it. And maltodextrin??? I know that is corn based, isn't it sugar??? Here's the 2 supplements I'm looking at:

http://www.gardenoflifeusa.com/detail_rm10.shtml#whats Click on the lil' link under the bottle for ingredient info.

and

http://www.newchapter.info/product/m...=32895&-search The ingredients include organic alcohol in addition to the brown rice, so that might be grain alcohol and out anyway

or

http://www.newchapter.info/product/m...=32875&-search

Love some thoughts. Oh, and I have found the RM-10 for $60 for 2 bottles of 120 capsules on eBay, so totally affordable. And the New Chapter is much less.

Thanks
Amy

Oh, someone was talking about selenium. I'm taking a lot of raw organic garlic every day and evidentally that is a GREAT source of selenium.


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

So if just taking garlic everyday (I am doing that for yeast) how much is a good enough amount for enough selenium. basically do I need to supplement when eating selenium rich foods. I imagane I still should since I live in Michigan where is is deficient.

Any thoughts?


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/selenium.asp

Just a lil' fact sheet. I haven't found real numbers about garlic in my Susun Weed book, and funny enough, garlic wasn't even mentioned in the aforementioned link?







All she says is when speaking of garlic, "Unusually rich in anti-tumor elements selenium and germanium, garlic also contains an abundance of antioxidants, isoflavones, and allyl sulfides."

I know that it has to be organic though. Conventional garlic has very low levels of selenium. I'm thinking that this is because selenium is found in the soil and conventional farming rapes the soil of nutrients. I'm thinking that I'd like to take a road trip to Nebraska though and bringing home a truckfull of soil and replacing my Vermont soil w/it. Either there or the Dakotas


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## moss (Feb 7, 2004)

probably depends on where the garlic is grown. the soil where i live has no selenium.

brazil nuts are the best source of selenium that i know of.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

Jane, has your ds's stomach acid been tested? I was just thinking the other day that maybe part of his problem might be low stomach acid. Both B12 and niacin are necessary for stomach acid, but stomach acid is required to absorb them (catch 22). If he doesn't have a yeast problem, you could give him apple cider vinegar to increase his stomach acid (not sure how much with a little one). Oh, and congratulations on your own success, I wish I were there! What brands of CLO are best? I tried the Blue Ice, and ds hated the taste. He likes Nordic Naturals, but it's low in vitamin A and anyway the peach flavor that he likes is probably illegal. Sigh. I also wish I could find a good enzyme that wouldn't make him hyper!


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

hi guys. we're still muddling along, and i am hopelessly behind on the thread.

our newest problem--bloody diaper rash. it is horrible! i'm thinking perhaps it is the enzymes i'm taking--they pee it out and it irritates? has this happened to any breastfeeding mamas? so i'm stopping the enzymes (and i've been taking miniscule amounts since they made me feel funny--like i think i've taken 3.5 over 4 or 5 days).

we have been nothing but sick since starting 3 weeks ago, but in the past few days (when i restarted the diet yet again because i had given too much banana and cooked fruit too soon--SOMEONE NEEDS TO REWRITE THIS BOOK FOR CLARITY!)...in the past few days, MAJOR MOOD IMPROVEMENT! the girls have learned how to give real kisses and they are finally relaxing into me like i always thought they should.

but does anyone have thoughts about the rash? the skin is just raw and bleeding. one dd had it much worse==her labia were so swollen i almost took her to the doctor (but i realized i wouldn't give her any meds they suggested so...). man, i can't wait til i have only good news to report! and when i can eat some applesauce.

BTW--i'm reading sugar blues by william dufty right now, and it's making this diet make a lot of sense. i highly recommend it.

also--48 hour yogurt i s so much better than 24--yummers.

hope you all are doing ok!


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## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Oh mama, my dd has had horrible diaper rashes several times. I have some blasphemy (mdc blasphemy anyhow







) to recommend. Switch to disposables for a few days (if you aren't already), put some of that 48 hour yogurt on it, let them go naked, lots of baths with naked time afterward.







those rashes have mama's feeling soooo bad


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Hi mama's. Haven't caught up yet.

I wanted to post. I read an article in The New Yorker about I think it was Crohns and how it is caused by a bacteria found in milk! Some study found that virtually 100% of people with crones had this one particular, very difficult to culture bacteria living in their gut. I thought that it totally validates BTVC. Of course it implicates milk instead of implicating the farming that put the bacteria there.

My parents were visiting for the past 12 days. My mom thinks she has Celiacs and so does her GI Dr but her tests came out neg. She followed scd at our house and now thinks that she may start following it, but she is scared of the work involved. I also got my dad converted to the wonders of raw milk and convinced him that he shouldn't eat any more cereal. He has eaten cereal every morning for many, many years and really, really likes it. I was shocked!

I've been getting something that isn't agreeing with me every single morning. I'm not sure if it is the candidase I try to take when I get up, the coffee we had every day, or possibly eggs are finally getting to me. With my parents gone I won't be having coffee everyday anymore so that hopefully will clear it up.


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## moss (Feb 7, 2004)

I have a question for the SCD guru's onboard. If constipation is the issue and not diarrhea, is it necessary to do the intro diet? I dont know if ds will eat anything on the intro diet, to be honest.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Yes the intro diet is a good idea for constipation too. It gives you a clean slate to start introducing foods from and will make it really clear what foods you can tolerate and what ones you can't. Have you gone to pecan bread and seen the ideas on how to get a picky eater to eat the foods?

Good luck!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *artisticat*
Did anyone ever mention what to do for kidney and liver support?

I don't know if this is exactly liver support...more liver/kidney/gallbladder healing...but MT in Vaccinations posted this website on a thread and it looks pretty interesting. www.sensiblehealth.com

firefaery--I know you take the vitamineral green...have you ever looked at how the Garden of Life perfect food compares to it? They both sound pretty good, but the GoL one is a bit cheaper and also is available more places so I could get it when I order other supplements and save on shipping.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

It just tastes a wee bit better. I like them both alot though.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

AmyD, I think the best enzyme/yogurt timing is, take the enzymes before a meal, then do the yogurt after the meal, when the stomach PH is lowest and the enzymes have mostly been used up on the food. If you're wanting to take enzymes to kill beasties, though, you'd take them on an empty stomach, and yogurt would not be something you'd combine with them. So, in that case you would take the enzymes like two or three hours after a meal. As far as the supplements, I'm not sure. I know enzymes are supposed to be great for people with cancer, but they take huge doses.


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

so--just a warning--it was definitely the enzymes causing the rash. i didn't even give th girls any directly. but i wonder why no,one else had a similiar experience. is anyone else nursing a babe in diapers and taking enzymes? did the enzymes somehow go thru too fast? or have i drawn the wrong conclusion? (and does anyone want to buy some enzymes?







)


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Mehera, My nursing dd did not experience this. I'm sorry your babe did! My big dd has had some pretty awful diaper rashes though which I'm thinking were yeast related. I got her some acid mantle and that seemed to help more than anything else.

Wanted to share that I tried the spit test and nothing. Just a few bubbles on top which quickly dissapated. I'm going to try to get my dd1 to try the test too.

Patty, my mom is also here visiting. She could sure use the SCD! Instead though, my house has been filled with Eggo Waffles, Sweet white bread, potatoes and instead of eating my lunches, she's asked me to go through several drive-thrus this week.







I'm trying not to be so judgemental but geez, I sure do notice the food choices others make much more than I ever did before. (I even study what people have in their shopping carts when I go to the grocery store.)


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Mehera,
I am nursing my guy in diapers and I have not had a problem with rashes. Sorry to hear that the girls are going through this! Hope you can pinpoint the cause and get them back on track quickly!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I think I may be reacting to the enzymes.

I have been having a horrible stomach ache every day mid morning. Today it was really, really bad. I thought I was going to throw up. I felt fine after lunch, but lunch was just broth. After dinner it came back. I was thinking that it was coffee but I didn't have coffee today. Then I thought my suppliments but I didn't take any with supper. I didn't eat anything new for supper either. I'm thinking it is the enzymes. I'm going to try tomorrow enzyme free and see what happens. How am I ever going to get rid of this yeast if I can't tolerate those enzymes!!! Oh and dd has yeast all over her vulva today









As of this week it looks like she if officially no longer in diapers except for overnight!!! That should be good for her bottom.


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## bubbles (Jul 26, 2002)

Ok, so I have waded through this for the past month and also spent a lot of time on the immunology 101 thread. I don't think I have major issues but think I may fit in here. I have mild acne, anxiety, difficulty concentrating, and am gassy/bloated all of the time. I think the anxiety and difficulty concentrating have a lot to do w/ my lack of sleep (poor sleeping 13 mo--maybe it is affecting him too) and lack of excercise. Anyway, I have been reading the various sites and one says that enzymes are a good place to start. However, after reading the past page I am a bit afraid of them! I was thinking I might start w/ enzymes (already doing probiotics and many of the suggested supplements). I loosely follow NT diet. What do you all think? I am pretty intimidated by going full force on the SCD right off due to expense and difficulty. I was thinking I would follow the suggestion of the enzyme stuff website to see if enzymes and probiotics did the trick (while sticking w/ a pretty good diet but not SCD). Thoughts? Suggestions for enzymes? I know I read a discussion on enzymes but couldn't find it.
Thanks!


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## sammysmammy (Nov 21, 2002)

subbing..(and long!)
I've waited quite awhile before posting here.I've lurked and read for awhile,too-you all have a vast expanse of knowledge on these given topics...it's a little daunting!
I have 6 children;three of which we have adopted.Samuel is 4(5 in Sept.)and we brought him home to us when he was 3 months.he has Down Syndrome(he is one of two of our boys with Down Syndrome)We couldn't bring him home at birth because he was very ill.He had 4 gut surgeries in Boston before he was 3 months.He was born with Hirshprung's Disease.He then had duodenal stenosis AND duodenal atresia.He then had a kink and a loop in his intestine.He then became infected and his sutures wouldn't even hold his wound closed from all the repeat procedures(the first for the Hirshprung's was a pull thru procedure,however,through his bottom)
When they finally released him from Boston Childrens he only weighed 7 lbs at 3 months old.He also had a heart defect found at birth(Tetrology of Fallot)that they were having to watch.We brought him home--- and speed up to present day--succesful heart repair and no more gut surgeries.
Samuel is very independent and vivacious.He is healthy,seemingly,and I'm pretty anal(no pun







) about the kids nutrition.However,there is one ongoing issue that they(docs)are wanting to do surgery for and I just wonder if there's an alternative.Samuel poops constantly.I mean literally,there is ALWAYS poop in his diaper or at least in his bottom.He seems completely oblivious to it.There's no doubt in my mind that for the most part,he has no sensation of needing to poop.It is not loose like diahhrea at all.The texture changes from looser to thicker..but the one constant is it's very pasty,commonly grainy(looks like there's sand in it)and it has the strongest most acidic foul odor of any poop I've ever smelled.After a meal,the poop amount will increase,but there will still always be at least some poop.We have battled diaper rash,no-skin breakdown of burn proportions--since he was an infant.The only thing that works is every diaper change putting a layer of stomahesive powder on his rectum then Desitin over it.His stool seems so strong that if it were left on his bare skin it would burn it.
He is not "sick".Really,we could not do anything about this and he could just stay in diapers.I don't want that for him.I will say we've had one bout odf hospitalization for impactedness(roto rootered)and each time the GI even does a manual rectal he noteds impactedness.They want to do a colonic motility study to determine if there is any nerve life or not.Or I guess to figure out what exactly is the deal.He would be required to go through a grueling 24 hrs.of lying still with stuff up his *** and no sedation(not that I want that,but you know)I can't do it.Regardless of his delays,he's 4 yrs old!
I should add that although I'm careful about his nutrition(no sugar,no juice,no junk)probably his fave things are milk to drink and meat to eat!I've got him down to milk(organic 1%)only in the mornings but he begs for it still all day.He only drinks water besides the milk.
Sorry this is long.If anyone has ANY ideas...please and thank you ahead!
P.S. I should add that when he was repaired for the Hirshprung's,a significantly large portion of his intestine was removed.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Well DD went 6 days without bloody poops (first time she's gone more than 3 days between them since they started) but then today she had bloody poop again







I really hope this diet is going to help as I feel like we are accomplishing absolutely nothing. Her yeast rash is really bad today, too, due to her being in a wet diaper all night and then again during her 3 hour nap.

So...if DD's allergy symptoms are still there, does it mean A) she's allergic to something I'm still eating or B) she/I just haven't healed enough for the symptoms to go away?

And I'm having stomach cramps every couple of days. Does anyone know if they're more likely to be related to die-off or to not tolerating new foods? They don't really seem to coincide with introducing new foods--if they are it takes 18 hours or more to have an effect.


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Okay, this is a question on behalf of my sister in law. In January she had a hysterectomy and was put on broad spectrum antibiotics. She developed the worse case of diaper rash her ob has ever seen. She is having tons of seemingly unrelated health problems. In the past 8 weeks or so, she has taken 24 diflucan pills. (It's supposed to be a one pill cure.) It has done nothing for her fungal problem. The fungus is systemic and is not candida. She has also been taking lots of natural antifungals on the advice of a naturopath. Nothing she is taking has given her any dieoff symptoms. I have talked to her about changing her diet, but she won't. (In her defense, it would be practically impossible as she only has $200 a month to feed a family of five.) Do you think enzymes may help, and if so, which ones? I will gladly buy them for her if they might help.
thanks in advance.


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## mamajessica (Sep 15, 2004)

Wow, it sounds like lots of us are struggling. I too am burnt out on the rashes








I am going to keep on and Trust The Process







to you all and sorry that I don't have any answers for you new mama's. I am sure one of the sage mama's will have some soon!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Wow. Diflucan is not a one pill cure, but noone really knows or understands how to use it effectively. It should be prescribed with a loading dose, then a small maintenance dose after. Taking that many is ineffective unless you are attempting to shut down your liver. Hugs to your sister in law.
Enzymes may really help. At this point she needs some serious support (physically.)
Why are you so sure it's fungal? It's definitely possible-just wondering if any testing was done. My fungal overgrowth (which was awful) was not candida. Enzymes will still work. A diet change will really be necessary if she's that far gone though. Does she still have the topical rash?


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

I'm looking for where to go from here. I'm currently in my 4th week of a gluten and dairy-free diet, trying to determine if leaky gut is causing my severe acne. (Also supplementing with Glutamine, zinc, fish oil, evening primrose, probiotics, kombucha and aloe vera juice). I'm seeing absolutely no improvement, so I'm trying to decide how to proceed.
1)Stick with this current regime, give it a few more weeks before I decide if it's working - I'm a little reluctant to do, since I'm really not seeing even the slightest improvement and would like to move forward
2)Eliminate all grains, in addition to dairy - this I'm very reluctant to do, as the frustration and depression regarding my diet limitations is starting to rival my frustration and depression regarding the acne. I can't imagine going even more restrictive.
3)Slowly start adding in raw, probiotic dairy, and eliminate all grains. This is the option that, with the help of all of the info you ladies have provided, seems like the best next step. It seems as though the 4 weeks without dairy have really shown me that that isn't the issue. If I'm going to go more restrictive on grains, I'd really like to have dairy back!

I guess my last question is, given that healing a leaky gut is about getting rid of the offending food while supplementing to heal, is it possible that in option #3 I could only eliminate grains that haven't been properly-prepared (NT-style)? As much as I really like this option, it seems like I should first see if getting rid of them entirely helps, and then start adding back the properly-prepared ones.

Haven't gone down the enzyme path yet&#8230;..That may be the next step after this one - I'm trying first to figure out what the offending food group is&#8230;.
Thanks so much in advance - I'm still in such disbelief of how frustrating this is







:


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Shanna--I was eating NT style and still had problems with properly prepared grains, so I had to eliminate them altogether. IMO, it would be best to try the SCD for a couple of weeks w/o dairy (I'm doing it without dairy) and then try adding in the 24 hour yogurt, preferably goat if you can get it. That way you will hopefully have a baseline to compare to when you do add dairy. Or if you don't think you can do it without dairy, do it with the yogurt but just be prepared for the fact that you might have to eliminate it if you're not seeing results (but try it without dairy for a couple of days at least...you might find that the diet is do-able w/o it even if you thought it wasn't).

One thing that makes the SCD do-able for me is the nut butter...I don't think I could get enough calories if I didn't use it (I also eat lots of eggs and quite a bit of fat). I've been making some almond butter or pecan butter pancakes that are really good (and I don't like regular pancakes, but these are yummy), and also some nut butter banana muffins.

I would also recommend enzymes just because if it is leaky gut I think you will see more progress sooner than way...I feel like we would have made progress by now (after 2 1/2 weeks) if I'd been able to do enzymes in addition to the diet...I'm just starting on enzymes again after stopping them because they made DD really cranky and also I was hoping her bloody poop would go away, which it hasn't.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Caedmyn, thank you so much for the advice. I have one more question, and hope I'm not beating a dead horse:
If I've eliminated dairy for 4 weeks and have not seen any improvement, why would I not be able to eat it in the next phase of elimination? Am I compartmentalizing too much? I'm thinking of it more like an allergy, but maybe the thinking is that the dairy will act in concert with what may be the bigger problem?

And you think that SCD for 2 weeks is long enough to start to have an idea if there is improvement? I feel uncertain about how long the acne takes to "show itself" with each trigger. A month would seem better to me, but I'm worried that that is more than I can chew......I'm pretty discouraged at this point.

I can't thank you ladies enough. My heart really goes out to all of you, dealing with this with children. It's hard enough on a 28 year old


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Shanna, It can take a good 6-8 weeks for something like dairy to get out of your system. Be patient! In the book BTVC, the author suggests trying SCD for a month and says if you don't see improvement by then, you probably don't need it. (I'm paraphrasing so somebody correct me if I"m wrong.)

I know it's so hard to be patient though but you won't really know until you give it time.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Thanks for the encouragement - I agree that a month would make me feel more confident about the "data". I do feel confused though, whenever I research the SCD diet, there's never any mention of it helping skin disorders like acne or eczema, etc. But I suppose we're assuming that our skin disorders are merely symptoms of the ailments she specifically says it can treat. ETA: Should I still keep all dairy out of my SCD diet? It's so tempting to allow the natural cheeses that are "legal" because it would feel like a better "trade", but I wonder if I should go without for the month just to rule out the dairy connection. I have a blood allergy test for dairy scheduled, but I'm skeptical.....

Okay, so I"m going to add a broad enzyme - Garden of Life seems to have a lot of fermented molasses in their supplements. Going to need to do some digging one what I can take - this is probably why all of you do mail-order supplements and try to merge orders, huh?








:


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## CluckyInAZ (May 4, 2004)

I have a lot of gas and bloating and am fuzzy headed most of the time, especially after sweet or grainy meals. I have a bm like once every 4 days and I am constantly getting cavities in my teeth. I just discovered a big one on a molar last night and reversing the cavity is a big priority for me.

My husband is intolerant of a growing list of food which currently includes dairy, fish, flax, corn and possibly soy. These cause him to start burping like crazy and make his stomach hurt, and diarrea.

I have an 11 month old and I am struggling to decide what to feed him. He is mostly breastfed, but I am just not sure what are the best foods to feed him. Most of the things he eats come out undigested, but I am probably not preparing them correctly. After last night I am thinking that maybe when he eats eggs he is restless and has trouble sleeping, but that could be the result of something else. Like a stressful day?

Dh and I were planning to do NT, but I am wondering if SCD would be a better place to start? I know people have had luck with butter oil and cod liver oil to repair teeth and I am going to try that. Would that work with SCD? How important are enzymes? We are short on money and I want to try the butter oil and clo for my teeth, I don't know if I could afford another supplement in addition to those.

Any advice?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

shanna--the enzymes that are recommended are Houston's (only available online as far as I know), Enzymedica V-gest (gentler) or Digest Gold (online and at health food stores), and I think Garden of Life are good, too, although probably not considered SCD legal.

Someone convince me I don't need to order pizza...I just feel like this diet is not accomplishing anything, I'm hungry, and we're visiting my parents right now and there's this place that has super pizza that I can only get when we visit them, and I was really looking forward to being able to get some, AND I JUST WANT PIZZA!!!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

caedmyn,
Both my dds are working on teeth (dd1 - 2 yr. molars) and dd2 (3 teeth at once.) My mom was here eating all kinds of crap in front of me and though it's nice for her to visit, it's still exhausting . . . PLUS I'm soooo sleep deprived and I'm having a real pi**y day today - can you tell?







SO I WANT SOME PIZZA TOO!

But . . . I'm not gonna do it. Last week I *tried* some sweet potato sticks (organic - nothing else added) and I threw up all night and had d. all the next day.







Does that convince you?

I really do feel like an addict though - like I need a fix of something today 'cause I'm feeling like such a martyr.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Clucky, have you seen this thread?


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## CluckyInAZ (May 4, 2004)

Annikate, thanks for the link. I have already seen the thread, that is why I plan to get the butter oil and clo. I want to start my ds on them too, I am just a bit worried about it since my dh is allergic to both fish and dairy.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

bubbles, for enzyme info, one good place to start is http://www.enzymestuff.com As far as whether just enzymes and a healthy diet will be enough, it probably depends on how healthy you are and what issues you are dealing with. The healthier you are, the more likely enzymes will help. Also, if you have celiac disease, any gluten will prevent healing.

Angie, what Sammy's experiencing sounds like encoporesis (sp?), which is extreme constipation. I'm surprised the doctors haven't mentioned it. See the site I just mentioned above about enzymes for info about it. I think SCD can help -- I think she even mentions that it's helpful for people who have had part of their intestine removed. Can you switch him to fermented milk, like goat milk yogurt? It's runny enough to call a drink, and you could always make it into a milkshake like drink by adding some pureed extra ripe banana to it in a blender.

caemyn, (((hugs))) to you, I hope you figure out what's up. I think cramps can be from die-off, have you tried a few of the ideas for die off on pecanbread?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CluckyInAZ*
I am just a bit worried about it since my dh is allergic to both fish and dairy.

With fish it is probably the proteins, not the fats. And ditto with dairy, casein dairy proteins are not in either ghee or the centrifuged butter oil. That being said, I cannot determine myself if my cow's milk protein sensitive DS can take it either!!

Any possibility of getting liver into him? Grass fed organ meats also have the X-factor. I wonder about liver extracts like: http://www.drrons.com/organic-organ-delight.htm


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
shanna--the enzymes that are recommended are Houston's (only available online as far as I know), Enzymedica V-gest (gentler) or Digest Gold (online and at health food stores), and I think Garden of Life are good, too, although probably not considered SCD legal.

Someone convince me I don't need to order pizza...I just feel like this diet is not accomplishing anything, I'm hungry, and we're visiting my parents right now and there's this place that has super pizza that I can only get when we visit them, and I was really looking forward to being able to get some, AND I JUST WANT PIZZA!!!

Pizza has been my weakness too







But I've managed to not break the diet yet - I keep reminding myself that if I do, I will regret it, and I will have to start all over









Thanks for the info on the enzymes - I have already ordered the Garden of Life ones, knowing they weren't SCD legal. It was just so tempting to have a "whole food" source....I hope I don't end up regretting it. Nothing will be worse than to go through this for a month, not get results, and then start second-guessing as to mistakes I made







:


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CluckyInAZ*
I have a lot of gas and bloating and am fuzzy headed most of the time, especially after sweet or grainy meals. I have a bm like once every 4 days and I am constantly getting cavities in my teeth. I just discovered a big one on a molar last night and reversing the cavity is a big priority for me.

My husband is intolerant of a growing list of food which currently includes dairy, fish, flax, corn and possibly soy. These cause him to start burping like crazy and make his stomach hurt, and diarrea.

I have an 11 month old and I am struggling to decide what to feed him. He is mostly breastfed, but I am just not sure what are the best foods to feed him. Most of the things he eats come out undigested, but I am probably not preparing them correctly. After last night I am thinking that maybe when he eats eggs he is restless and has trouble sleeping, but that could be the result of something else. Like a stressful day?

Dh and I were planning to do NT, but I am wondering if SCD would be a better place to start? I know people have had luck with butter oil and cod liver oil to repair teeth and I am going to try that. Would that work with SCD? How important are enzymes? We are short on money and I want to try the butter oil and clo for my teeth, I don't know if I could afford another supplement in addition to those.

Any advice?









Yikes mama, your house has it bad! I would really recommend trying the SCD for a month or two, just to know. If only to get some relief fast! There are many principles of NT that work with SCD, and yes CLO and butter oil is definately SCD compatible.

Also remember part of the protocol for cavity prevention and remineralization includes lots of minerals in your diet...bone broths for example.

I wonder in your DH's case if the issue with dairy is not the lactose (and since SCD is lactose free). Obviously he is not digesting his food well and neither are you.

Enzymes are fabulous helps but I didn't do them into well into SCD. I found the most changes with just food.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
I have already ordered the Garden of Life ones, knowing they weren't SCD legal. It was just so tempting to have a "whole food" source....I hope I don't end up regretting it. Nothing will be worse than to go through this for a month, not get results, and then start second-guessing as to mistakes I made







:

The enzymes are grown the same in their capsules as others.... fungal based. Except papain and bromelain which are from fruits (pineapple and papaya).

But I've been trying HSO's and are considering giving to DS b/c nothing else seems to be working (although his new bowel nosode and berberine protocol might be helping not sure yet). I know the allure of the GOL schtick too well!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

I have heard this pizza recipe is very good but I haven't gotten around to making it yet since DS can't eat it and DH eats Domino's









KIRSI'S PAN PIZZA
http://www.scdrecipe.com/recipes/r_035_00161.php


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moss*
I have a question for the SCD guru's onboard. If constipation is the issue and not diarrhea, is it necessary to do the intro diet? I dont know if ds will eat anything on the intro diet, to be honest.

Yes b/c the cause of C and D are the same: intestinal flora imbalance.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Shanna,

I really think probiotics and the right essential fatty acids (and possibly elminating all the bad fats in vegetable oils such as canola, corn, soy, etc.) were the key for my acne problem.

Edit:
I don't think of as a food allergy at all, but a hormonal and immune system issue... and both of those issues are all about the gut/flora and what type of fats you eat.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mlleoiseau*
Okay, this is a question on behalf of my sister in law. In January she had a hysterectomy and was put on broad spectrum antibiotics. She developed the worse case of diaper rash her ob has ever seen. She is having tons of seemingly unrelated health problems. In the past 8 weeks or so, she has taken 24 diflucan pills. (It's supposed to be a one pill cure.) It has done nothing for her fungal problem. The fungus is systemic and is not candida. She has also been taking lots of natural antifungals on the advice of a naturopath. Nothing she is taking has given her any dieoff symptoms. I have talked to her about changing her diet, but she won't. (In her defense, it would be practically impossible as she only has $200 a month to feed a family of five.) Do you think enzymes may help, and if so, which ones? I will gladly buy them for her if they might help.
thanks in advance.

OMG how horrible and painful to have this after such an emotional surgery too! How about if she at least made 24 hr. yogurt, that's not too expensive. Geez, we spend almost $200/week.

Diflucan being a "One pill cure" is for a vaginal y.i. only.
For example, it's common to take it for 2 weeks when bf'ing and having thrush (and I'm with FF, not that I would! It's horrible stuff.)

Enzymes: Candex or Candidase or No Fenol together with a high protease like Virastop or Peptizyde taken in between meals. Best last thing at night 2 hours after eating and first thing in morning, one hour before eating. If she doesn't get die off from that I'll be very surprised.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
Well DD went 6 days without bloody poops (first time she's gone more than 3 days between them since they started) but then today she had bloody poop again







I really hope this diet is going to help as I feel like we are accomplishing absolutely nothing. Her yeast rash is really bad today, too, due to her being in a wet diaper all night and then again during her 3 hour nap.

So...if DD's allergy symptoms are still there, does it mean A) she's allergic to something I'm still eating or B) she/I just haven't healed enough for the symptoms to go away?

And I'm having stomach cramps every couple of days. Does anyone know if they're more likely to be related to die-off or to not tolerating new foods? They don't really seem to coincide with introducing new foods--if they are it takes 18 hours or more to have an effect.

ARGH, I hear you. It's going to take a long time. Since I'm still at it with my DS, I know frustration only too well!! It's like 2 steps forward, 2 steps back.
It's doubly hard when you are at a loss to what the next step is exactly...

This is when I reread my books and gather strength and resolve and the knowledge that there is a plan to this.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

P.S. Caedmyn

I found that it was sometimes helpful of me to thing of the entire gut situation rather than "I ate one thing that set me off". Meaning it could be that you cannot digest the sorbitol in apples... but that generally things are happening in the gut flora as a whole to shift it one way or another. It can be frustrating thinking back in minute detail that the Elmination Diet teaches you. Am I making sense?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
so--just a warning--it was definitely the enzymes causing the rash. i didn't even give th girls any directly. but i wonder why no,one else had a similiar experience. is anyone else nursing a babe in diapers and taking enzymes? did the enzymes somehow go thru too fast? or have i drawn the wrong conclusion? (and does anyone want to buy some enzymes?







)

Did you start fast? Go very slow, you can work back up to them. I had to do this myself.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Angie,

You are amazing for taking care of so many children and 2 sweet kids with Down's too!









I can't remember what I said to you in your first post in H&H but I definately think this is all intestinal flora related. Perhaps an issue with his system converting stomach acid to the more alkaline ph of the small intestine (does he have stomach pains often?) if the stool burns.

What about getting a stool test done on him... link to Genova Diagnostics (formerly Great Smokies) in the Cheat Sheet. My ins. paid for it.

I would get some yogurt into him, would he like that? Have you considered raw milk? (And personally I don't believe in lowfat milk for kids, they need the vitamins and fats for their brains and hormones).

Is he on digestive enzymes? b/c removing part of the intestine (small intestine I assume?) might mean he is not absorbing and breaking down his nutrients well. Does he have undigested food in his stool? If fat digestion is a problem you could try coconut oil b/c that is the most easily absorbed fat. The Genova Diagnostics CDSA stool test for malapsorption will tell you that, plus any bacterial/yeast issues.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I think I may be reacting to the enzymes.

I have been having a horrible stomach ache every day mid morning. Today it was really, really bad. I thought I was going to throw up. I felt fine after lunch, but lunch was just broth. After dinner it came back. I was thinking that it was coffee but I didn't have coffee today. Then I thought my suppliments but I didn't take any with supper. I didn't eat anything new for supper either. I'm thinking it is the enzymes. I'm going to try tomorrow enzyme free and see what happens. How am I ever going to get rid of this yeast if I can't tolerate those enzymes!!! Oh and dd has yeast all over her vulva today









As of this week it looks like she if officially no longer in diapers except for overnight!!! That should be good for her bottom.

Enzymes just with food or between meals? Which ones are you taking?

My guy won't even look at a potty! I'm ashamed to say I bought the stupid "Potty Power" DVD and he loves it and jumps around chanting, "No more diapers for me!" yet refuses to try...


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bubbles*
Ok, so I have waded through this for the past month and also spent a lot of time on the immunology 101 thread. I don't think I have major issues but think I may fit in here. I have mild acne, anxiety, difficulty concentrating, and am gassy/bloated all of the time. I think the anxiety and difficulty concentrating have a lot to do w/ my lack of sleep (poor sleeping 13 mo--maybe it is affecting him too) and lack of excercise. Anyway, I have been reading the various sites and one says that enzymes are a good place to start. However, after reading the past page I am a bit afraid of them! I was thinking I might start w/ enzymes (already doing probiotics and many of the suggested supplements). I loosely follow NT diet. What do you all think? I am pretty intimidated by going full force on the SCD right off due to expense and difficulty. I was thinking I would follow the suggestion of the enzyme stuff website to see if enzymes and probiotics did the trick (while sticking w/ a pretty good diet but not SCD). Thoughts? Suggestions for enzymes? I know I read a discussion on enzymes but couldn't find it.
Thanks!

Welcome and Congratulations for making it this far in the thread









First of all, your boys are gorgeous!!

All of your symptoms describe mine exactly to a T. I didn't have problems starting enzymes until I started the high proteases in between meals ... hyperactivity, diffculty sleeping, it was horrible! But I just backed off and took a 1/4 capsule at first and it was fine. And now I credit them with giving me the final push to healing.

Are you eating yogurt and lots of other fermented foods?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
my mom is also here visiting. She could sure use the SCD! Instead though, my house has been filled with Eggo Waffles, Sweet white bread, potatoes and instead of eating my lunches, she's asked me to go through several drive-thrus this week.







I'm trying not to be so judgemental but geez, I sure do notice the food choices others make much more than I ever did before. (I even study what people have in their shopping carts when I go to the grocery store.)









Totally. I'm horribly sad and maybe a wee bit judgemental... especially after reading things like Weston Price's work and really knowing how the food you eat builds the body you have. My eyes bug out at the grocery store (and playgroup etc. etc.) too!


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pookietooth*
Jane, has your ds's stomach acid been tested? I was just thinking the other day that maybe part of his problem might be low stomach acid. Both B12 and niacin are necessary for stomach acid, but stomach acid is required to absorb them (catch 22). If he doesn't have a yeast problem, you could give him apple cider vinegar to increase his stomach acid (not sure how much with a little one). Oh, and congratulations on your own success, I wish I were there! What brands of CLO are best? I tried the Blue Ice, and ds hated the taste. He likes Nordic Naturals, but it's low in vitamin A and anyway the peach flavor that he likes is probably illegal. Sigh. I also wish I could find a good enzyme that wouldn't make him hyper!

No, but I've certainly not been doing things to help it: fruit with meats and using juice/water with meals to mix enzymes and CLO and minerals. All that has stopped. He's getting lot of fresh lemonade which he thankfully loves.

I didn't think NN flavorings were illegal finally? They went back on forth on that one. We have Blue Ice orange but it doesn't taste great, I have to hide or syringe it. I might order the cinnamon one next b/c people said that was good, but then I just say a post saying it was yucky!









Have you tried V-gest, that is the lowest protease. Or just go really really slow, I had to do this with DS but he is back to Zyme Prime (higher protease than V-gest) with every meal now and working on the snack.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Or just use NN and supplement A&D with Carlson's natural vitamin pills at a 10:1 ratio A : D.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nicolena*
hi guys. we're still muddling along, and i am hopelessly behind on the thread.

our newest problem--bloody diaper rash. it is horrible! i'm thinking perhaps it is the enzymes i'm taking--they pee it out and it irritates? has this happened to any breastfeeding mamas? so i'm stopping the enzymes (and i've been taking miniscule amounts since they made me feel funny--like i think i've taken 3.5 over 4 or 5 days).

we have been nothing but sick since starting 3 weeks ago, but in the past few days (when i restarted the diet yet again because i had given too much banana and cooked fruit too soon--SOMEONE NEEDS TO REWRITE THIS BOOK FOR CLARITY!)...in the past few days, MAJOR MOOD IMPROVEMENT! the girls have learned how to give real kisses and they are finally relaxing into me like i always thought they should.

but does anyone have thoughts about the rash? the skin is just raw and bleeding. one dd had it much worse==her labia were so swollen i almost took her to the doctor (but i realized i wouldn't give her any meds they suggested so...). man, i can't wait til i have only good news to report! and when i can eat some applesauce.

also--48 hour yogurt i s so much better than 24--yummers.









If enzymes make you feel funny it's die off. Not sure what to say about the rash issue, unless it was connected to the fruit? My DS has issues with apples, they contain a hard to digest sugar, sorbitol.

I'm pretty sure I read the bacteria in yogurt starts to die off after 36 hours? Or stop growing maybe?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
Hi mama's. Haven't caught up yet.

I wanted to post. I read an article in The New Yorker about I think it was Crohns and how it is caused by a bacteria found in milk! Some study found that virtually 100% of people with crones had this one particular, very difficult to culture bacteria living in their gut. I thought that it totally validates BTVC. Of course it implicates milk instead of implicating the farming that put the bacteria there.

Jordan Rubin says this too. It is called MAP ?

We have tons of bad bacteria of many kinds in our gut. But it's supposed to only be 15% bad and 85% good that keep it in check. It's when the good is reduced that's a problem. Speaking of good bacteria...

*Since it's almost summer for most of us, consider the damage caused chlorine in pools.* It kills off the good bacteria in our guts too. Here's an alternative for those of you who have pools:

Baquacil, hydrogen peroxide
http://www.baquacil.com/default.asp


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Since it's almost summer for most of us, consider the damage caused chlorine in pools. It kills off the good bacteria in our guts too. Here's an alternative for those of you who have pools:

Baquacil, hydrogen peroxide
http://www.baquacil.com/default.asp
OMG, OMG!!! Jane!! I gasped when I read this. My dds are now taking swimming lessons again and OMG, dd2 IS NOT SLEEPING ANYMORE (AGAIN.) She's also been spitting up again. . .

I _suspected_ the chlorine. Geez, here we go again. . . I haven't yet tried her on yogurt but think I will now. Thing is, we go on vacation for over a week soon and I won't be able to make yogurt there.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Hey Mamas,

Question? Or 3.

We are doing SCD w/fanatical adherence. I'm doing great, until I had a tincture made w/gluten containing alcohol, sigh. So, looks like I'm back at the beginning again.

My 4 yr old, seems to be making no progress whatsoever.







And he is the one I'm most worried about. He nurses and I think that might be a "problem" for the killing of the beasties. He poops once a day, always soft, not diarrhea, perse, but soft. Always comes out like a long snake until the end when it loses even the snake form and just has a lil' pile of it in the toilet. Obviously he streaks the toilet every time.







His cheeks are red often (not sure if its the enzymes or not--although we haven't been fanatical about them at all), and he has a big ol' red and painful ring around his anus. We've tried the diet w/no fruit and honey for up to a week w/him, and still, nada w/the cheeks and bum. We've discussed stopping b/fing for a time as well as stopping fruit and honey, and being fanatical about the enzymes----he is very open to this. He wants to stop being so limited. Thoughts?

Should I be using enzymes before I eat yogurt? I always have this picture in my mind of the enzymes eating all the good bacteria---whadda you think?

Any problem w/mixing the 3 houston's together and just giving yourself a scoop of that mixture????

Oh, and I really want to start taking something for my cancer. The problem, the 2 supplements I'm looking at both have illegials, rice bran, maltodextrin and the like. I need some guidance on this one. According to Patient Heal Thyself, Rubin recommends staying away from grains for 6-12 months for those w/celiac disease, so I'm hesitant to try anything w/rice bran in it. And maltodextrin??? I know that is corn based, isn't it sugar??? Here's the 2 supplements I'm looking at:

http://www.gardenoflifeusa.com/detail_rm10.shtml#whats Click on the lil' link under the bottle for ingredient info.

and

http://www.newchapter.info/product/m...=32895&-search The ingredients include organic alcohol in addition to the brown rice, so that might be grain alcohol and out anyway

or

http://www.newchapter.info/product/m...=32875&-search









Hi Amy,

I'm pretty sure alcohol doesn't contain gluten even if made from it? What happened after the tincture? What was in it?

Your son sounds exactly like mine. Although at least you didn't wean him, I regret sorely weaning mine.







And well, as you know, I haven't figured my guy out yet. Hopefully the herbs and homeopathy will help but too soon to tell. How much yogurt is he eating?

I don't think there is a problem taking all 3 Houston's that way but I'd really encourage you to do Peptizyde between meals and also No Fenol if you have yeast issues.

Devin Houston has said that the yogurt/enzyme issue is not a problem I believe but I also have that phobia.

I think maltodextrin is a starch from corn. It's interesting how JR is so fanatic and SCD-like in some ways and puts that crap in his products.

I don't know what to say re: the illegals. It seems silly to not take something that could potentially help you. Enzymes with it?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
OMG, OMG!!! Jane!! I gasped when I read this. My dds are now taking swimming lessons again and OMG, dd2 IS NOT SLEEPING ANYMORE (AGAIN.) She's also been spitting up again. . .

I _suspected_ the chlorine. Geez, here we go again. . . I haven't yet tried her on yogurt but think I will now. Thing is, we go on vacation for over a week soon and I won't be able to make yogurt there.









Wow! Well there you go.

This also pertains to baths and showers too... we use a chlorine filter for the shower and if DS takes a bath instead I use the shower head to fill tub. But the pools have heavy concentrations of chlorines.

Make yogurt ahead and take it with you in cooler? It lasts 2 weeks and really doesn't have to be kept super cold either.

P.S. it's a good thing you PM'd me about this or I would have lost your message in the middle of my "posting party"


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
P.S. Caedmyn

I found that it was sometimes helpful of me to thing of the entire gut situation rather than "I ate one thing that set me off". Meaning it could be that you cannot digest the sorbitol in apples... but that generally things are happening in the gut flora as a whole to shift it one way or another. It can be frustrating thinking back in minute detail that the Elmination Diet teaches you. Am I making sense?


So...are you basically saying it's probably the gut not being very healed yet rather than one specific food causing the allergy symptoms?


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## mlleoiseau (Jun 28, 2005)

Thanks, firefaery and Jane, for the responses. I will talk again to Penny. I have talked to her before about making yogurt, but I don't think she'll do that either. And she is so resistant on the diet changes. But she may take enzymes.

I think her topical rash is pretty much gone. Her toenail fungus is really bad right now and through testing the fungus is in her bloodstream. Her doctor says once it's in the bloodstream, diet won't help. I think medically speaking the next step is putting in an iv port and getting prescription antifungals intravenously. And with their current financial situation, that would be cheaper than diet changes.

I am really disappointed in her because she knows so much about health and nutrition yet she won't commit to it. But then again, I am somewhat the same, although if I had the problems she has I like to think I would act differently.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
Wow! Well there you go.

This also pertains to baths and showers too... we use a chlorine filter for the shower and if DS takes a bath instead I use the shower head to fill tub. But the pools have heavy concentrations of chlorines.

Where can one get a chlorine filter for the shower??? I want one!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

So no suppliments at all today to see if they were causing my daily stomach ache. I didn't get one in the morning like I normally do but I did in the afternoon after eating a cranberry muffin w/scd cream cheese. So was it the cranberry (first time since starting scd) or the cream cheese (I've had a love hate affair w/cow dairy for a while now but so far it has seemed ok on scd). Or perhaps just because dd was awake for an hour in the middle of the night and coincidental that it happened right after the muffin.

Jane- I was doing enzymes both with meals and between meals. I think they have been bothering me for a while but I didn't put it together because my stomach wouldn't start to hurt untill 1-2 hours after I took it. I'm going to give my system a few days to calm down and then reintroduce them slowly. I started slowly before but may have overlooked a reaction because it was so far from the time that I took the enzymes. DD however seems to be tolerating them well, when I can get them into her.

I saw a digestive healing book by JR. Anyone read it? It had some good reviews on amazon but I'm not going to bother getting it if it just contains the same stuff as the makers diet.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Where can one get a chlorine filter for the shower??? I want one!

Me too but my shower is the kind that attaches to the tub spout and has a hose that goes up the wall (if you kwim) I haven't found one that I think will work with our set up. I do have a clorine ball on our tub spout though www.gaiam.com is where I got ours.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Also, where do I get DCCC/how do I make it? I still don't have the book.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chasmyn*
Also, where do I get DCCC/how do I make it? I still don't have the book.









DCCC is also called Farmers Cheese. It looks a lot like cream cheese. My Whole foods was carrying it but they said the last time I went in that it is a seasonal thing and not available right now. I don't know. I have started making it. I take the 24 hour yougart and drip it in a cloth untill it is like cream cheese or even thicker. I use that in place of DCCC in recipes.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Speaking of yougart.

My yogurt maker broke







. I've been using a cooler w/2 heating pads in it. Well I always check it every few hours and it is always perfect. I've been incubating 1.5 gallons of yogurt in there for 48 hours and I just checked it. It was 80 degrees







I have no idea how long it has been too cool. I'm not sure what to do at this point. Any ideas? It was raw milk too. Do I just have to toss it?


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## CluckyInAZ (May 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*
With fish it is probably the proteins, not the fats. And ditto with dairy, casein dairy proteins are not in either ghee or the centrifuged butter oil. That being said, I cannot determine myself if my cow's milk protein sensitive DS can take it either!!

Any possibility of getting liver into him? Grass fed organ meats also have the X-factor. I wonder about liver extracts like: http://www.drrons.com/organic-organ-delight.htm

My husband reacts pretty violently to cod liver oil, so I don't think it is just the proteins in fish. I know he reacts to butter, but we haven't tried ghee or centrifuged butter oil for him yet. He also reacts to flax oil, even in small amounts. I think the only way I am going to be able to get xfactor into him is with organ meats, and I haven't found a good supplier yet. I would really like to feed him the whole organs instead of extracts, because that would be a lot more cost effective.

I think he definitely has a leaky gut. I am hoping to get some raw goats dairy soon and see if he can tolerate 24 hr yogurt made with it to help him start healing. He is also pretty underweight at this point. He started dropping weight several months ago and hasn't been able to get any to stick since then. He is willing to eat anything I try to feed him though, so hopefully I will make it something that will help him out!


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Pattyla-it's essentially the same book, just without religion. I read Restoring Your Digestive Health first and really liked it. I'm not "religious" but I liked the spiritual aspects of MD very much. If I were just getting one, I'd get MD.

Your poor SIL! Fungus in the bloodstream happens when you have any fungal overgrowth. It's in the bloodstream because they damaged her gut lining and her internal organs. Mainstream medicine sees it as a death sentence though...ironic since they are responsible for it in almost every case. Can she see an ND? Food changes would really help (as would enzymes) but it doesn't sound like she can/is willing. I agree with Jane, I spend alot on food, but she would find relief (even though this makes me shudder) doing the diet with conventional products. The diet doesn't specify organic. Something to consider...she may be able to cut her costs relying on yogurt and eggs for protein, and using meats and things that are on sale. Bones are cheap and the broth can go a long way. I don't know. Wish I could help more!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Firefaery- thanks I already have md and have read it. I won't get that one too. I am interested in his other one Heal thyself?


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

I think I'm in the minority here, but I LOVED Patient, Heal Thyself. I think it's worth it for sure. I've been a Jordan Rubin junkie (canya tell?) for years now. He was the first person that gave me hope when I had nothing. I love his products for the most part (people feel like he product pushes, but he didn't have any in the beginning. He developed them because there weren't any out there) and like his honesty. It's a great companion to NT. Can anyone tell me why-since those were the first "healing" things I read-I went vegan and expected to be able to heal? I am feeling grumpy today that I took steps backwards. Arrgh.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

Caedmyn- I couldn't see if this was already answered. I *think* what Jane is saying is that there shouldn't be food allergies period. If you are healing the gut, you are healing all causes...so try not to second guess everything you ate. It's futile. Things can take 72 hours to show up in a "reaction." You just have no way of knowing what it was, unless every time you eat dairy a horrid rash pops up immediately and you have explosive diarrhea...but even then the same case can be made. IF there's a clear reaction to A SPECIFIC FOOD then take it out. Not necessarily because it's doing harm, but because it's making your dd uncomfortable. After you heal you should be able to tolerate it no problem. Food isn't designed to hurt us-not real, live, whole food anyway. After you finish with the program you should tolerate properly prepared real foods without an issue (unless you have CD, which there is still debate about. I'm not 100% convinced yet.) That's why the SCD is great. We did it with known allergens and recovered. THere was some discomfort (in the form of gas and behavioral stuff-oh and sleep stuff) for a bit, but they no longer have the avacado-carrot-pea-coconut-plum-banana-etc. allergies that they did. Once the gut heals, you stop leaking proteins. Once you stop leaking proteins the allergies go away. HTH.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Are any of you familiar with different types of adrenal support?

I'm looking at this:

http://www.vitaminlife.com/product-e...oduct_id/31671

and this:

http://www.herballegacy.com/id500.htm

Any recommendations? Thoughts?


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

:
Just subbing because I need to start working on dd1 and my gut healing shortly after we move into our new house at the end of May.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Hi ladies,
Just received my NT book!!! I'm reading voraciously.....
So I've committed to starting SCD on Monday for one month - minus the dairy, so I can be confident that the acne isn't somehow dairy-related. *Was anyone else hesitant to eat beans in the intro-SCD diet?* I've heard so much about how hard they are to digest (but maybe only unsprouted....Haven't gotten to that chapter yet), that I'm worried about eating them during such an otherwise restrictive diet. Any comments? Pattlya, I wish I had some advice about the "yogurt-gone-wrong" - However, I'm a health inspector and most of what I'm learning and considering is completely against everything I'm taught professionally anyway. All that to say, your local health department is _not_ the place to get advice about what to do with your yogurt batch







I suspect, though, that since the ferment conditions weren't there to control pathogen risk, it may be risky to try the process over with the same raw milk.
On that note, I went to a training today on pool chlorination, where the mantra was "the law says 1 ppm, but we always recommend 3!". DH and I often play a game of "what is commonplace now that we'll look at in 20 years and think 'What were we thinking?'" Pool chlorination and birth control pills top _my_ list....


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## charmarty (Jan 27, 2002)

hey! need to "lurk in here for a bit and trying ot not feel overwhelmed. I need to do this for my dd's health.

Be Well.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

shanna--you're not supposed to do beans in the beginning (they're for advanced SCD'ers)


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## HerthElde (Sep 18, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
"what is commonplace now that we'll look at in 20 years and think 'What were we thinking?'" Pool chlorination and birth control pills top _my_ list....

Attached garages. But that's totally OT









I didn't even know you could get a chlorine filter for the shower! Dd's very sensitive to Cl. I'll have to look into this. Also, I know some pools are starting to use bromine or even salt - I just moved to a different city, I'll have to look into what they use around here.


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## toraji (Apr 3, 2003)

So incredibly behind, but still lurking on the thread...

We have a vitamin C shower head plus bath tablets. It neutralizes the chlorine and is reported to be quite effective. Google "vitashower" for more info, I can't remember where we got it from.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

This whole chlorine issue has me very interested. Dh and I talked about switching - we, of course, use all the typical pool chemicals in ours. YK, I suspected the that the chlorine was affecting dd but NEVER thought of it affecting her gut flora! Totally makes sense now.

I just ordered JR's _Patient Heal Thyself_ to read more about it (and his take on all this). If anyone has any other info. or links I'd love to read them.

I gave dd some of my yogurt for the first time this morning and she liked it. She actually had 2 good poopies today AND an hour and a half nap. Is this coincidence? I don't think it is. I gave her some more at dinner time too. So far, no adverse affects.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *toraji*
So incredibly behind, but still lurking on the thread...

We have a vitamin C shower head plus bath tablets. It neutralizes the chlorine and is reported to be quite effective. Google "vitashower" for more info, I can't remember where we got it from.

So I'm looking at all of these different showers and how does one choose? Each says the other's technology is bunk, essentially - and of course they do, they have a product to sell! Anyone know of an unbiased assessment of the different ones? I want to buy one of these like yesterday. Aquasana offers a satisfaction guarantee or money back and has all sorts of awards, but the vitashower uses Vitamin C and well, for natural living I can't argue with that. Aquasana also has a seemingly pretty good deal on a water filter - not RO, leaves the minerals in, but I'm not sure about fluoride, I'm waiting for them to email me back.

Anyone know anything about RO vs filtered leaving the minerals in? We currently have RO.

Is this OT? I feel like it's not but I don't want to de-rail the thread. I mean, minerals are important, right?


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

JaneS (or whoever knows)...how can I treat eczema? One of the rashes on DD's butt has been tentatively diagnosed as eczema and I can't figure out how to treat it. We do CD and also EC--she is mostly dry and gets a fair amount of air time, besides.

Could enzymes make the eczema worse? I started taking 1/4 cap of Digest Gold with 2 meals a day a couple of days ago and today DD's rash looks pretty bad.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
shanna--you're not supposed to do beans in the beginning (they're for advanced SCD'ers)

Thank you! I thought it sounded weird......
I'm confused then about trusting the website about what is allowed or not allowed (can't afford (new) or find (library) the book): It says specifically that beans are okay, except for chickpeas, soybeans, and a couple of others.
I should be okay if I just stick to meat, fresh veggies and eggs.... I guess I'll have to dig deeper online for the intro diet to make sure the nuts and nut butters that I was counting on are okay......


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Hey, look what I found - a thread discussing chlorine in the bath!

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=425602


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

I also wonder about how much chlorine we really have in our water at home. I guess it's worth testing.

ETA: I'm going to use our pool kit and test our water tomorrow.

DDs take swim lessons at the Y and I've been wondering if an epsom salt bath afterward would help with the chlorine exposure. ???? Only one more week of swim lessons anyway . . .


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *caedmyn*
JaneS (or whoever knows)...how can I treat eczema? One of the rashes on DD's butt has been tentatively diagnosed as eczema and I can't figure out how to treat it. We do CD and also EC--she is mostly dry and gets a fair amount of air time, besides.

I read on Curezone that using Burt's Bees Baby Bee products was very effective - especially the lotion, keeping the area moisturized. Also lansinoh for smaller areas or the weleda baby cream. TTO is a great antibacterial but I'd dilute it in another oil.


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Whoa......
So I had decided to do the SCD diet for 1 month (admittedly, I haven't read the book







). I had consulted their site for legal/illegal foods, understood the philosophy behind the restrictions, thought I was good to go, and am just now stumbling upon the intro diet. Ho.Lee.Cow.
They talk about doing the intro diet for 5 days and monitoring for symptoms - does anyone have any advice about using the intro diet for symptoms like severe acne that a)are not obviously GI and b) take longer to show themselves? Feeling a little surprised.......
On one hand, I've wondered if the intro diet is less appropriate for my situation because I don't have severe GI symptoms (cramping, diarrhea) per se, but on the other hand.....a need for healing is a need for healing.
Any advice? Feel like I just got clobbered over the head







:


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

caedmyn, I use acid mantle on all the things that nothing else seems to work for like yeast rashes, and excema. You have to get it from a pharmacist but don't need a prescription. My pharmacist had to order it for me and just fyi - - a little goes a long way so you don't need much. I've also read that some people use it for age spots and wrinkles.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Whoa......
So I had decided to do the SCD diet for 1 month (admittedly, I haven't read the book







). I had consulted their site for legal/illegal foods, understood the philosophy behind the restrictions, thought I was good to go, and am just now stumbling upon the intro diet. Ho.Lee.Cow.

Where'd you find the intro diet? I am awaiting my book, too.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Shanna,
Same thing happened to me. I did not do the intro diet the way it was supposed to be done. I got the book late and well . . . by then it was too late.









I started by cooking, peeling and de-seeding everything and went very slowly. I saw results right away. I know others have posted about not doing the intro. according to the book too . . . I say try it and see. If you don't feel like you're making any progress you can always go back to the intro. diet.


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

shanna--you don't have to do the intro diet for 5 days, just do it for 2-3 days if you can, or only one if that's all you can take of it. I didn't have GI symptoms and I could only handle one day of the intro diet...and I did have die-off symptoms the next day so apparently it did something. You're supposed to start with nut butters (easiest to digest I guess) and actually are supposed to hold off on them for a little while, but I couldn't do it and started with them on day 2. People say you get better results if you do at least one day of the intro diet.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

We just did one day on the intro diet and then added in one new food a day after that. I actually had constipation start up after we got started on scd. I have had that off and on my whole life but it was like every day for a week or more at the begining of scd. I drank a lot of prune juice.







I think it is worth it because you know that the foods on the intro are very unlikely to cause reactions and you can then start from a clean slate looking for how well you tolerate foods. I used the list on Pecan bread to know what foods to do and how to get started. They have the intro diet there as well as the btvc web site has it.

I've been fogetting to do the gelatin. Just started pushing the broths and jello again. No stomach ache today at all. I'll probably start adding back suppliments tomorrow cause I have no energy. I think I'm missing my b-vitamins.

Just an update on dd. She had blueberries the other day (a favorite) and for the first time ever her poop didn't contain blueberry skins!!! Usually they come out looking a whole lot like when they went in. She is healing!!! Now if she would just get these last two molars in I think we might be getting a bit more sleep arround here...







:


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Thanks so much for all of the encouragement and support. I'm going to have to think about this - it's a lot to have sprung last minute, especially when I'm feeling so discouraged with even the advanced diet.
Here's where I found the intro diet info:
http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.i...ntro_diet2.htm

I'm going to have to find that book _somewhere_ tomorrow - feeling very unsure of myself now!


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Shanna- You really do need the book. Both for the info and the recipes. I thought I could do it from the info on websites alone but there is no way.


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## Panserbjorne (Sep 17, 2003)

ITA-to do the program the book is necessary. Mine is so friggin' dog eared at this point! IT's a great resource ( as is Enzymes for Autism...)


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shanna4000*
Whoa......
So I had decided to do the SCD diet for 1 month (admittedly, I haven't read the book







). I had consulted their site for legal/illegal foods, understood the philosophy behind the restrictions, thought I was good to go, and am just now stumbling upon the intro diet. Ho.Lee.Cow.
They talk about doing the intro diet for 5 days and monitoring for symptoms - does anyone have any advice about using the intro diet for symptoms like severe acne that a)are not obviously GI and b) take longer to show themselves? Feeling a little surprised.......
On one hand, I've wondered if the intro diet is less appropriate for my situation because I don't have severe GI symptoms (cramping, diarrhea) per se, but on the other hand.....a need for healing is a need for healing.
Any advice? Feel like I just got clobbered over the head







:

No it's not less appropriate b/c die off is die off too. You want to "clear the decks" as Elaine once put it.

See the Food Preparation Section of www.pecanbread.com for Beyond the Intro Diet chart. It's geared to dairy free obviously but some of the other things might be helpful.


----------



## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Annikate*
This whole chlorine issue has me very interested. Dh and I talked about switching - we, of course, use all the typical pool chemicals in ours. YK, I suspected the that the chlorine was affecting dd but NEVER thought of it affecting her gut flora! Totally makes sense now.

I just ordered JR's _Patient Heal Thyself_ to read more about it (and his take on all this). If anyone has any other info. or links I'd love to read them.

I gave dd some of my yogurt for the first time this morning and she liked it. She actually had 2 good poopies today AND an hour and a half nap. Is this coincidence? I don't think it is. I gave her some more at dinner time too. So far, no adverse affects.









I'm reading PHT now and I like it better than Maker's Diet. But it's not really teaching me anything. However, I guess I'm further along after reading WAPF, NT and SCD. It would probably be good for a newbie.

I don't necessarily agree with everything he says though and I think he takes a lot from others without really explaining scientifically the "new things" he adds to them... like all his Perfect Food, Greens, this product, that product, etc. He has always turned me off as a marketing hawker. I'm just left wanting more more more explanations from him than he gives.








on the yogurt! Don't go too fast even if it's looks good so far, okay?


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Thanks for the comments re: Intro diet everyone, I think I will edit the Cheat Sheet to make that more easily apparent.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

For eczema, supplement with cod liver oil for a while and if that isn't helping some kids need just evening primrose or a combination of the 2. More info in The Eczema Tribe thread.

Also my DS's digestion has a lot to do with it. If his poops go to mush, the tops of his feet, the last remaining "hot spots", flare up. I wonder if the bacterial toxins produce this reaction, I don't really know for sure. I have seen others describe this type of reaction for yeast issues too, hot spots flaring with diet.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Can I also just say I'm thoroughly blow away by all the "gut related" posts for help there are in this forum and elsewhere!

It feels like my little finger in a dam sometimes.

And very very frustrating that this stuff is not well known.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I find myself constantly biting my toung when people mention issues that are gut healing issues but I know they will be unable to hear it. My nephew with terrible excema (I did talk to his mom but she thinks they can't afford it and his Dr said he will outgrow it.) My other nephew who isn't sleeping well, is anemic and has a reaction every time he takes iron. My brothers entire family who have serious anger/behavior issues and the youngest has a terrible immune system and gets everything under the sun and bad! (cp put him in the hospital at 4 years old). Not to mention the random strangers and others. I just wanna scream "what you are eating is killing you!"

We are having movement on the two remaining molars. The last few nights she has woken up crying in the middle of the night. I'm hopeful that this is a good sign. I'm so ready for these to be in and to be on a cleaner slate evaluating her health.

Gotta go.


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

*Abnormal Gut Fermentation: Laboratory Studies reveal Deficiency of B vitamins, Zinc, and Magnesium*
Authors: Eaton, Keith1; McLaren Howard, John2; Hunnisett, Adrian2; Harris, Malcolm3

Source: Journal of Nutritional & Environmental Medicine, Volume 14, Number 2, June 2004, pp. 115-120(6)

Abstract:

Gut fermentation in the colon is a normal phenomenon whereby soluble non-starch polysaccharides are metabolized to short-chain fatty acids. Abnormal fermentation may be associated with clinical symptoms and is generally assumed to take place in the small bowel. It may be established by ethanol production after a sugar challenge in the fasting subject, which produces maximum production of ethanol 1 hour after sugar challenge. This timing is compatible with the dose acting in the small bowel, but not the large. It was noted that patients with abnormal gut fermentation established by gut fermentation ethanol production tests tended to have low levels of vitamins and minerals, and it was therefore decided to make a prospective study of patients with the condition to determine if this was so.

Patients were tested for ethanol production together with standard functional analysis techniques for vitamins B1, B2, and B6 and zinc and magnesium concentrations by sweat analysis using air/acetylene flame atomic absorption. Fifty normal subjects (group A) were analyzed against 30 positive patients by alcohol testing (group B). Statistical analysis, using the Wilcoxon Sum of Ranks test, revealed a remarkable and consistently high difference for vitamins and minerals between the two groups. In group B, 19 of 30 patients had four of five or five of five nutrients abnormal, and no subject with a positive alcohol test had less than two abnormal nutrients.

It is concluded that the syndrome that causes abnormal gut fermentation appears to have adverse effects on levels of B vitamins, zinc, and magnesium. As yet it is not clear whether this is a result of malabsorption, over-utilization, or excessive excretion. The level of ethanol production in this condition is low, but the presence of the nutritional deficits implies that the syndrome may cause quite significant adverse effects on health. More research in this area is required to replicate and extend these studies.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...dtt04.victoria


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## JaneS (Jan 11, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pattyla*
I just wanna scream "what you are eating is killing you!"

EXACTLY!

Speaking of this:
There's a great new book that is getting a lot of mainstream press right now, _The Omnivore's Dilemma_ about grain fed vs. grassfed meat, et al. DH just gave me a write up that's in Business Week of all places and he also heard it on NPR this week too.

http://www.michaelpollan.com/article.php?id=71

I just love when he finds things to prove I'm not crazy


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

I've got that book on my amazon wish list right now. I really, really want to read it.


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quickly and kinda OT.

Oh, and before I forget, thank you Jane for the response to my many questions. I've decided to go w/the New Chapter over the RM-10 as there was just too much 'stuff' in Rubin's.







And the myleniated brown rice in the new chapter one is, (I think) what they ferment the mushrooms on...or something technical like that









My lil' guy is 17m and barely eating. Waiting on the food allergy and enviromental tests to come back (sleep apnea and very very frequent nightwaking gasping for air). Oh, he also has a lil' rash too (and he is EC'd) so probably the enzymes over here too







Well, he just developed a umbilical hernia (he had surgery at 6w for an inguinal hernia), sigh. So another surgery might be in his future, but this is not life threatening like the inguinal one.

But I regress.

We had the house deleaded before I was pregnant w/him. New windows, gov't grant and loan, excellent program, certified lead abatement contractors. Well, he just got tested and his lead is at 14 (venous). His iron is at 11 (normal is 70-100) and hemoglobin is at 9. I need ideas. (And a bigger plate to put all of this one, mine's gettin' crowded







) We just bought the gluten-free floradix, floravital, and started that yesterday. He won't eat red meat (which I've been trying to push for weeks). I'm thinking about getting some organic grass-fed liver and after the 14 days of frozen, grating it up and just putting it on my finger and sneakin' it in his cheek (which works for everything). Our dr. wants to put him on a prescription iron supplement and while I understand that his iron is incredibly low, I'm not sure how a supplement that is ridiculously hard on his system and unabsorbable, will help. Not to mention the crap (and SCD illegials) that will be in it.

Sigh.


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Oh Amy!
I feel for you-yes, your plate is overflowing! I don't have much advice, but I will look forward to the responses you get as my guy is just a bit older and in the same boat with the iron and not eating.
Hugs,


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Grump, grump, grump.....







:
I just spend 3 hours chasing Breaking the Vicious Cycle all over town, to no avail. I had to order it online, and it won't even ship until Wednesday








Can anyone help me out with part 2 of the diet? I'm so sorry to ask, but I'm in a bit of a bind.....
So I'm starting the *intro* diet on Monday (only the chicken broth w/carrots, broiled beef or fish, eggs, and Welch's Grape Juice - won't do any dairy or gelatin). I'm hoping to go until Friday on this, but righ now I can only bite off the idea of 2 days on this part of the diet. Where would I go from here? I don't expect to see any improvement yet after just 2 days since my issue is acne.....Can anyone help with the next step, just to get me through Friday or so? Does the next food to be added in depend on your situation? I would guess that certain fruits and veggies would be next......
I'm worried I'll lose momentum if I have to stay on the intro part until the book comes - I feel hungry just _thinking_ about it....


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## artisticat (Jul 28, 2004)

Shanna, after the intro diet I just added in one new food a day. the pecan bread link Jane provided in a couple posts back has a beyond the intro diet chart of what foods to add in first. Like applesauce or pearsauce and deseeded and skinless cooked zucchini and greenbeans. If you added in those one a day that week it should take you to Friday. I just made a soup out of the broth, chicken, zucchini, and green beans. I could eat that every day for lunch, so it doesn't feel too depriving. Dinner I have more problems with in the intro diet and snacks are sooo hard, especially if you are cutting out dairy. Why no gelatin? I never was a jello eater, but I love the stuff now after starting this diet and not much else to eat.

Hmmm I usually just ate yogurt for breakfasts. Maybe you could do broth? and your going to want to cook a lot of chicken if your going slow. When I started the intro the first time I was soooo sooo hungry all the time. the second and third time I've started the intro has been a lot better. And now I will also be starting it over again on Monday too for the 4th time. I fell of the wagon for my birthday. This time though I am determined to stick with it.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

If you don't do the gelitan it is very important that you make your own bone broths and drink them often. The natural gelitan in them will help with healing.

I think I added bananas next and then zuccini and probably spinach. Wintersquash is another good one to add early. Also apple sauce and pear sauce. You can make things with nut flour pretty early on too. Just pick a day when that is your new thing. Not sure which recipes don't have dairy though. Hold off on the coconut. I found that pretty hard to digest.

You can do it! Have you looked into doing goat yougart when you do decide to introduce some dairy? It is easier to digest and often it is easier to find local sources of raw goat milk than raw cow since it requires much less space to raise them.


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## Peri Patetic (Feb 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AmyD*
Well, he just got tested and his lead is at 14 (venous). His iron is at 11 (normal is 70-100) and hemoglobin is at 9. I need ideas. (And a bigger plate to put all of this one, mine's gettin' crowded







) .

How about cooking absolutely everything in cast iron?


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## mom2zsel (Jun 11, 2004)

Hey Shanna & Artisticat-I am starting on Monday as well! Let's help each other!









I started about a month ago-thought it was a great idea to just jump in and start the entire family (all five kids) and DH on it at once-not such a good thing. We lasted for about ten days-then moved to NT-added soaked grains.

I am still BF'ing my 25 month old and he is really struggling. I have to do this for him-now! I am roasting up a big old chicken tomorrow, will make broth after we eat the meat. It is my goal to do the intro for at least three days-then add one cooked veggie/fruit each day after that.

Gelatin ?-I am assuming we are not talking about Jello-is it the unsweetend boxed stuff? How do you eat this-sorry if this is the dumbest question. I did get some gelatin on my last two batches of broth-that was yummy.

Thanks!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

Shanna--if you like eggs they are good for breakfast. I ate deviled eggs w/homemade mayo and scrambled eggs w/a little water added instead of milk. I go through about 5 dozen eggs a week by myself since I started this!

If enzymes are making DD rashy, does that mean I can't do them at all, or do I just need to try different enzymes? I've been doing 1/4 cap of Digest Gold at 2 meals a day for the past 3 1/2 days. Today her rash was better when she woke up but around 3 I noticed it had flared up again--this was about 3 1/2 hours after the first time I had enzymes at a meal today. Is it possible for them to affect her that quickly?


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## Siana (Jun 21, 2004)

I know this is more appropriate for the SCD Chef's thread, but I need a quick response, so I figured this would be a better place:

*Could someone please PM the ingredients for Lois Lang Bread?*

My DP accidentally returned the book to the library yesterday, before I could write down the recipe. I need it for a family gathering we're having at 1 pm today! I'm going to be making the Onion Bun variation (for portabello burgers







)

Thanks


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## ~Shanna~ (Nov 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mom2zsel*
Hey Shanna & Artisticat-I am starting on Monday as well! Let's help each other!

Yes, I could definately use a buddy on this!

Thank you SO much for the link to pecanbread - I'm trying to remember that I really need to read the book before I progress beyond stage 1 - hopefully the book arrives soon while morale is still high on initiating this









On the gelatin issue, I think I will go buy some - I was mostly concerned about availability, but I think the CoOp should have some. I think that and the grape juice will probably be my saving grace.

I am going to be starting the Garden of Life Omega Enzyme tomorrow (I think it's illegal?), but I did switch probiotics from the GOL to MegaFlora, which has rice starch in it.







I couldn't locate any of the "legals" at the NFS last night, but I did take the advice about not using the homeostatic ones from GOL. I feel so uncertain about the priorities for me on this diet, since my issue isn't GI symptoms - Ideally, I'd like to follow it to the letter even on the supplements, but didn't have the luxury of being able to order them and wait.


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## Pookietooth (Jul 1, 2002)

For the gelatin, you buy unsweetened, then use juice, and maybe a little honey (or, ack, saccharine) to sweeten it. There is one recipe on the box of Knox gelitan I have, and there are others out there. There use to be tons of them. I have a book, Mommy Made, that has some recipes with them, including one using broth as the base!


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## caedmyn (Jan 13, 2006)

nicolena--just wanted to say that you are not the only one dealing with rashes caused by enzymes. My DD has eczema (I think that's what it is, anyway) on her butt and it has flared up since I started taking enzymes, and I am going really slowly with them. I've only added two new foods in the last week or so and I don't think the flare up is connected with either food (the timing doesn't seem right) so it must be the enzymes









JaneS--can I just take extra cod liver oil instead of giving it to DD for her eczema? I don't really feel comfortable giving supplements to a baby that's not even old enough for solids.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

Taking extra clo is a great way to get it into a nursling! You should be getting a minimum of 2 tsp of the high vitamin kind while nursing (approx 5000 of A per 1/2 tsp) I take 1 tbsp but my dd also takes clo (about 1tsp worth). If I were trying to heal a younger nursling w/ my bm I would be taking even more.


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## Gale Force (Jun 15, 2003)

Amy,

Have you had any other test results back on either you or your son? Do you have other health problems besides gut problems?

Amanda


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## Kundalini-Mama (Jul 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Gale Force*
Amy,

Have you had any other test results back on either you or your son? Do you have other health problems besides gut problems?

Amanda

Nope, we are pretty healthy. Except for the cancer of course







We are probably some of the more healthier members of this thread. I do think all of our issues come back to the fact that *I* have a leaky gut--AND I AM TOTALLY TALKING ABOUT CANCER HERE. My immune system, while doable, could not cope. With the exceptions of the hernias in lil' DS2, I'm not taking the blame for that.

We are waiting on RAST results for both boys presently. I haven't done the minerals yet, nor the heavy metals, but I feel that I am deficient in selenium (another cancer issue) and magnesium. And I feel the boys might have some heavy metal stuff going on, besides the Lead.


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## Pattyla (Apr 18, 2004)

What if we adopted the pecanbread siggy rule and signed with whatever diet we are following and how long we have been doing it? I think that may help us talor responces to each other better w/o having to keep asking who is doing what and for how long etc.

Patty- Fanitical scd for 10 weeks w/ nursling dd and dh for candidia and suspected celiacs and other auto immune issues.


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## chasmyn (Feb 23, 2004)

Time for the May thread! I found it here:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=445508


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## Ambercrystal (Apr 17, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *JaneS*









For those of you experiencing sensitivities with almonds... are they organic almonds?

I used to have a lot of problems with my throat swelling and closing up from certain "conventional" fruits (esp. apples) all my life. When I found organics, I was in heaven, no problems at all.

"Countless nutritionists and living foods experts have all stressed that it is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to germinate (soak) all nuts and seeds for at least 12 hours before consuming them.

Germination is a process where all the vitamins, minerals, proteins and essential fatty acids (EFAs) that are dormant in nuts and seeds begin to activate and multiply. Germination also eliminates certain toxins and acids within the dormant nuts and seeds that would interfere with digestion.
"
http://www.livingnutz.com/


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## mmMommy (May 5, 2006)

Hi all,

I've been lurking on these boards for a few weeks just trying to assimilate it all. I was hoping you kind ladies could help.

DS dx with milk allergy @7weeks with blood in his stools. Neocate started. 6m we started solids and he did great. At 9 months he reacted with rashes. We thought it was wheat since Cheerios was the last new food we had given. Took out, but rash still not completely gone. Finally took all solids out for 3 weeks (DS was 10m at this time). Rash went away.

Started one new food a week. Rice first week of March went fine, so did sweet potatoes. Green beans, peas and squash he got a rash on the 6-7 day of trial. Then slowly he started reacting to rice and sweet potatoes with the rash. I knew this because I stopped trialling other foods at the beginning of April.

He RAST neg and skin test negative in February.

Dx with delayed food allergies...non igE allergies.

So now at 12.5m we have pulled the two solids he could eat out. Per the ped/allergists at Stanford we are giving him 6m off solids.

I've been talking to a john's hopkins MD who also does homeopathic medicine. She thinks that DS has leaky gut syndrome. And that while 6m will help, if he eats any of the foods too often or in excess the sensitivities will come back.
She also agreed that don't worry about feeding him for the next few months and to give him gut rest. Which I geuss is what the allergist at Stanford Children's Hospital are saying in just a different way.

She said probiotics often help. I'm afraid that he'll be allergic to those too.

But I feel like the Stanford Doctors who while they acknowledge delayed food allergies say not much is known about them....aren't being pro active enough.

I know IgG testing is not as accurate but isn't it a starting pt? Isn't there something we can do?

I don't want to keep trying new foods b/c he is seeming to become allergic to everything with time. And I think the Stanford Doctors and Homeopathic/MD both think that resting his gut will help. But I am just so confused. Nobody I know has allergies and allergic to everything is blowing my mind!

I want to cry b/c he wants to eat and all I can give him is formula =(

I hope you could help. Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

Arati


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## EBG (May 3, 2006)

Yes there is light! Please got to the May thread of healing the gut tribe.
Towards the end there are some success stories but most of the mamas are still in the middle of healing their babes. Also, the Healing the Gut tribe cheat sheet will answer your questions. Most of us follow the Specific carbohydrate Diet with Nourishing Traditions (book by Sally Fallon) principles. westonaprice.org, breakingtheviciouscycle.info, pecanbread.com

Food allergies are the result of leaky gut, because the undigested proteins leak throught the intestine to the blood where they are seen as invaders.
Do not feed your child sugar and grains! Baby's first food should be egg yolks after breastmilk. Not egg whites, though, because whites have a very difficult-to-digest protein. Yolks have fat and cholesterol and protein, vitamin A, B-s, D and minerals, just what baby needs.
Babies don't have the enzymes to digest carbohydrates.
Probiotics won't cause allergies but may cause a die-off reaction, the worsening of symptoms for a short time. That's because the pathogenic bacteria are dying and the body is trying to get rid of the toxins.

After the gut heals (may take months, years) allergies will go away most of the time.

You can find the intro diet on pecanbread.com, which is how you start the healing process, and you need to go slowly. Chicken broth and gelatin....

learn about enzymes (cheat sheet) and enzymestuff.com and how they can help digest food and reduce allergic reactions.

Probiotics- pecanbread.com has info on the age-appropriate versions that have no additives and are "legal" on this diet.

Supplement with cod liver oil if it's tolerated.
there's so much more but this is a good start...


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## nicolena (Oct 10, 2005)

Quote:

How about cooking absolutely everything in cast iron?
amy--my thoughts too. are you still nursing (can't remember what you decided)--how about adding dessicated liver to your supplementation regime? i'm taking 4/day (as per eflf), but i've thought about adding more, esp since dda is sick and ddb will probably get it.

which i could respond more. starting together is brilliant! i just kinda caedmyn and chasmyn bc i think they started around when we did.

so dda is sicjk, but she will take clo! she has horrible gas tho. and all she's really eating is my milk! agh! so i guess bad stuff is still getting in it.







i guess i've been cheating too much with honey and dried fruit. so i'm cutting way back on homey and fruit for us all, tho i'm very sad about it. i guess i'll make gelatin again, tho it feels counterintuitive.


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