# Anyone with OLDER intact sons - please respond!



## MrsReady2bMama (Mar 6, 2006)

Hi all,

Yes, gearing up to argue it out with my husband at some point over the next six months on the chance this one is a boy.

Please, those of you who have intact sons who are older - who have had the opportunity to 'compare' with friends, see other kids in the shower, get teased, even just see that they are different than dad, whatever - can you post about these experiences and how they were handled?

I just can't get over how many comments I see from those who circ'd who 'insist' that the boys will *wish* you had taken care of this for them when they were babies, b/c boy are they mortified now...

It would be especially helpful if your kid is say over age 10 or so...

TIA!
Gina


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

I have an intact 16yo and as far as I know he has never had do talk about his foreskin with anyone.

He has only one friend who is circumcised and he is American. He can't remember exactly how this came up in conversation but he hasn't seen it or compared it to his own.

Who are all these people who think that boys spend their whole time comparing penises? (peni?)

Talk to your dh about it now and tell him that it won't be happening to your child if it is a boy.


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## LavenderMae (Sep 20, 2002)

My oldest son is only 8 so I'll tell you about my 15 yr. old intact nephew. He has never been teased and has told his mom he's happy they didn't do that to him. He's talked to me about it a little (he used to come to my house after school a couple days a week, I often had a baby story on so it came up) and he seemed pretty glad he is intact and pretty horrified by the thought circumcision. He never mentioned any comparing but I got the impression it would not be okay AKA cool to talk about another boy's penis, not surprised by that.


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## Fellow Traveler (Jan 8, 2008)

Well how about an intact guy? I have never heard a word of lip about it but I'll add some aditional observations.

1. There will almost certianly be at least a few more intact boys around.
2. Even if there aren't (which may be true in some areas unfortunately) kids today will have better knowledge. That is to say 10 or more years ago you might have had the combination of being the only intact boy and nobody knew what circumcision was either. Even in places where circumcision is common most will know they weren't born like that. This would reduce any potential issue.
3. In my experience there were few situations where boys see each others penis but perhaps because of over protection or some odd increase in shyness there are increasingly few of those situations.

For example to number three nobody showered after gym, not enough time. I did shower at summer camps though a funny thing, the years I was there I saw substantial increase in the use of bathing suits in the shower by younger members. I recently heard that many camps (scout camps are where I was) are now building showers with stalls. The county pool I go to host swim teams of all ages through high school and any time I've been in the lockerroom while one of the teams were changing, they either change with a towel or in a bathroom stall all of them (I've even seen many adults duck into stalls to change), and they don't shower perhaps because the showers are the gang showers. It seems that from that experience (county pool) there is no nudity between say 10 and say early 20s, where there is nobody says anything. For some reason people are seem increasingly shameful and I doubt there will be many situations where someone makes any comment to your son.


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

He knows what circ is, feels sorry for those babies who get circ'd. I'm sure he will always be proud of the fact that he is whole.


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## Yulia_R (Jan 7, 2006)

By the way, I love a comment from one intact guy:

"dude, let's get it straight. you are laughing at me because part of _your_ d*** is missing?!". That should pretty much finish teasing if it ever takes a place.

If for some reason it doesn't, I'd print out "function of foreskin and damage of circ" and let my son to hand it to the teasing guys (and perhaps to the girls) in his class. That should take care of it for good.


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## Fyrestorm (Feb 14, 2006)

How about a 19 year old who played sports in HS and is now in the navy and is still disappointed that he never got to use any of the lines he had planned to use if someone ever commented.

"Dude. why are you looking at my junk"

and

"Someone cut off the best part of your junk and you're laughing at me?"

But, alas, 3 years of middle school sports, 4 years of HS sports, navy boot camp and 1 year in the navy and he's never been able to use them.


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## betsyj (Jan 8, 2009)

My son is only 16 mos but not one of my friend's circ'd their sons and none of them are patricularly crunchy. So I am guessing it will be a non issue.


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## Krystal323 (May 14, 2004)

I think it's becoming more and more the norm to have un-circ'd boys in America, no?? I thought the numbers were something like 40-ish percent to 60-ish percent intact vs. not....?

My son is 10 and we've not run into any "weirdness" about his being intact. I have a good friend with older intact boys, and it's never been an issue for them either.

My dh is from Europe, so he was just as horrified about circ as I was, heh. Good luck for the fight!


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

My intact boys are only 6, 4, and 2 so they haven't had a chance to really compare penises with others







but I wanted to say DH is an intact 29 yr old who grew up in CO, and he can't recall being teased, or feeling odd b/c of it









When do other males really look at each others penises anyway?







I cannot fathom that being a valid reason for circ'ing, even if it really happened often...


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## Night_Nurse (Nov 23, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MrsReady2bMama* 
Hi all,

Please, those of you who have intact sons who are older - who have had the opportunity to 'compare' with friends, see other kids in the shower, *get teased*, even just see that they are different than dad, whatever - can you post about these experiences and how they were handled?


I think Dancindoula addressed it best when she responded in another thread. Please click to read her response:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=#post14391207

My son has never noticed (or if he has he hasn't mentioned) the difference between his penis and his dad's. My circed DH said he never remembered any intact boy being teased in high school or college. My intact dad has never mentioned any teasing (not that my dad really mentions that kind of thing but if it were an issue he would have mentioned it when learning our son would be intact). I have a friend whose son is now a high school senior and she said it was never an issue with her son either. I've also dated two intact men, both born and raised in the US, who never mentioned problems with teasing or women having negative reactions. Honestly, I think men who "worry" about the foreskin of their son being problematic are just worrying over nothing.
Kids will be teased for a variety of things. I'd guess the majority of us where teased by peers for something during our childhood. But from what I've heard from those I know, the foreskin "issue" really isn't an issue at all. Your child is probably more likely to be teased for being too smart, too short/tall/fat/skinny or wearing glasses. And you'd just teach him good self-esteem and positive body image for those things, right?
And it you're going to bring it up to your DH/DP, I'd do it now rather than closer to delivery. Some men need some time to digest it all and come to realize intact really is okay.
Good luck!


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## glongley (Jun 30, 2004)

I've asked both my intact sons about this. Here's what they have told me.

Older son (now 25) - said he was never teased by anyone. I asked him what he would do if anyone ever made a comment about not being circumcised. He said he would just ignore them. Obviously, he's quite comfortable in his body and not going to let anyone else's stupity bother him. He has thanked me for not circumcising him.

Younger son (now 23) - came to me when he was 15 and told me he wanted to get circumcised. I ask why and his reasons were very vague, so I presumed it had something to do with adolescent body angst. I ended up explaining to him in detail about the value and function of his foreskin, and what circumcision actually entails - and he got over it. He has since told me that the reason was that he was concerned about what girls might think - although apparently nobody has ever actually said anything to him about it - he just worried that they might. But when he got together with his long-term girlfriend and now fiancee, they talked about it, and decided that anyone who would judge someone based on whether they were circumcised or not would be a pretty shallow person. He has since thanked me for not circumcising him.

So in my experience, the likelihood of being mercilessly teased, rejected by females, being permanently emotionally damaged for having intact genitals just doesnt' happen. SOME boys in our circumcising culture MIGHT have a bit of self consciousness about it, but this is not a cause for preemptive amputation, but for parenting skills - teaching them about their bodies, teaching them about how to handle bullies (a skill necessary for many other reasons), and just generally raising resilient kids with high self esteem and common sense.

Gillian


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

My son is 16. He never had any issue about "looking like dad" (I will _never_ understand this argument for circ...for a hair transplant, it might make sense). He's also never had any teasing or anything like that. (To the best of my knowledge, my 46 year old brother was never teased, either...and circ was nearly universal around here back then.)

I also don't understand the "he'll want to be circ'd later" thing. If a man wants to be circ'd, then he can get circ'd! They can't put a foreskin back on, though.


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## Dev (Oct 13, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glongley* 
So in my experience, the likelihood of being mercilessly teased, rejected by females, being permanently emotionally damaged for having intact genitals just doesnt' happen. SOME boys in our circumcising culture MIGHT have a bit of self consciousness about it, but this is not a cause for preemptive amputation, but for parenting skills - teaching them about their bodies, teaching them about how to handle bullies (a skill necessary for many other reasons), and just generally raising resilient kids with high self esteem and common sense.
Gillian

Well Said Gillian !


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## MyBoysBlue (Apr 27, 2007)

I once asked my husband, not long after I first learned what circ was, if he had ever been teased or if anyone ever commented on the fact that he was intact. He was surprised. He said that if you ever notice someones package you better not comment on it because you open yourself up to ridicule that way. I asked if any of the girls he was with commented and he said nope they didn't say anything.


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## eepster (Sep 20, 2006)

I wasn't quite sure how much older you meant by older, but DS has commented on both DH (who was circ'd







) and I when he has seen us in the shower or using the bathroom (it's amazingly hard to get privacy with a preschooler.) He has never commented on DH beyond "daddy has a winky" (yes we use euphemisms.) However, he has questioned me at great length as to why I don't have a winky!









DH, DS and I don't all match each other in so many ways (we are a biracial family, so we have quite a bit of variation going) why would this single aspect be one of great issue above and beyond the others?


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## gillibean (Nov 28, 2006)

My 8 son is only 8 and it hasn't really come up with him. This isn't exactly what you asked but I'd like to share it anyway. I dated a guy for a while and the circ issue came up. He was *very* angry that he had been circ'd. His was a different situation because the hospital just did it without asking his parents. He was angry that he didn't have the choice. He would have much rather had possible teasing (which was quite unlikely anyway).


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## Greg B (Mar 18, 2006)

My oldest son is almost 19, youngest is 16. Neither have mentioned any comments. Their cousins are all intact, btw.

In school, they do not take showers anymore, at least our schools. At the YMCA, they did, but no troubles as far as I am aware. And I will note that my younger son did get teased once for his underwear. Go figure.

Kids will tease. About someones mouth, ears, voice, shirt, etc. We do not advocate cutting off ears, hair, lips, etc just to prevent teasing. What if you did circ, and they got teased about being circ'd? Just as likely.

This argument is not a good justification for RIC. It does not even come close to outweighing the negative consequences of RIC. It is not compensation for loss of bodily integrity, the pain involved, the risk of infection and complications, the loss of sexual function, the loss of sexual feeling.

I would suggest that he should do some more homework. Here is a good reference for him:

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...yStatement.pdf

Regards


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## K703 (Dec 15, 2008)

I'm a 24-year-old intact guy and have never had any negative comments about my intactness.


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## Quirky (Jun 18, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *eepster*
I wasn't quite sure how much older you meant by older, but DS has commented on both DH (who was circ'd







) and I when he has seen us in the shower or using the bathroom (it's amazingly hard to get privacy with a preschooler.) He has never commented on DH beyond "daddy has a winky" (yes we use euphemisms.) However, he has questioned me at great length as to why I don't have a winky!









My intact ds is only 7, so not "older," but this is exactly the situation we've had in our family. Completely uncurious about daddy's circed (and also larger and much more hairy) privates, but no end of fascination with and pity for poor Mommy who doesn't have a penis!









I think the concern with "matching" is far more about the insecurities of the men who want their sons to "look like them" and "avoid teasing." Those are just the surface rationales for a very deep-rooted need to avoid the potential emotional pain of considering the implications of their own circumcisions, which were a) involuntary, b) painful, and c) inflicted on them by their parents, not to mention d) permanently altering of their sexual sensations and functioning.

But as so many have said, we cannot possibly justify cutting off half of our sons' penile skin systems at birth to "match daddy" or "avoid teasing." One, our babies are their own selves, not clones of their fathers. Two, how can we justify cutting our babies to potentially avoid one or two bullies down the road? We WANT our kids to be strong and secure in their individuality, not sheeple who follow the crowd.

Can you imagine any other cosmetic surgery you'd perform on a baby or a child to avoid a bully in high school? A nose job? Ears pinned back? A boob job? LASIK for poor vision? Liposuction to get rid of fat?


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## boheime (Oct 25, 2005)

My intact, 32 year old husband was never teased.

My oldest is just getting ready to turn 7, but he is extremely appalled that anyone would forcibly mutilate another person's genitals.


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## childsplay (Sep 4, 2007)

I really don't think it would be an issue with my 15 y/o intact DS.

And against popular 'pro circ' belief, teenage boys don't sit around comparing penises. Fathers and sons don't either for that matter.


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## itsajenism (May 21, 2005)

My DS is only 4.5, however he did notice a very slight difference between him and DH recently. I can't remember the exact details about the conversation, but when I explained that Daddy had his foreskin cut off his response was "ow! but why??"

I have also dated a guy who was intact (he was 28 at the time). He never experienced any teasing at all growing up.


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## Evergreen (Nov 6, 2002)

I asked my 27 year old brother and apart from being weirded out about talking to me about it he said he never had one problem and was actually pretty promiscuous in college so apparently no girls had a problem with it either.


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## MommytoB (Jan 18, 2006)

Brendan seen many adults circ'ed and some of his peers including one of his cousins .

He actually called a circ'ed penis an owie when he had first seen one on a kid but he seen plenty adult wise under 2 but only focused it on it that one time.

Now he says I see some kids cut & some who are not .

he also ask why do they do that ?

By the way my son Brendan is 5 and intact so far no teasing of his foreskin and he's like more interested in where is my winky asking if i got it cut off lol

I go no no


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## TCA2008 (Nov 20, 2007)

My son's are almost 12 and 8 - they have noticed the difference and asked, I've very gently explained that some parents choose to have the foreskin removed - they were both horrified "But mom, that would hurt!!!" Tell your husband it is a lot easier to explain that you didn't have something cut off than to explain you did. Kids really get it right off, and in our current culture diversity is for the most part fine - further, it is just NOT OKAY anymore for any teen male to comment on another teen male's penis - it would be the kid making the comment who would be ostracised, not the kid with the foreskin.
If your son ultimately decides he wants to be circumcised, that can still happen. But what if your son were circumcised and decided he didn't want to be? It can never be taken back, and even though some men restore it is just not the same.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Drummer's Wife* 
When do other males really look at each others penises anyway?









Well, let's see...

1) When dads or male babysitters change a baby boy's diaper.
2) A male medical professional examining a male patient.
3) Gay/bi/curious guys being intimate.

I can't imagine a teenaged babysitter teasing the baby he's watching, a teenaged boy being teased by a medical professional, or too much teasing going on in an intimate situation.

As explained above, guys do NOT check each other out in the locker rooms, and if they accidentally catch a peek they don't admit to it.


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## phrogger (Oct 16, 2006)

I haven't read any responses, but my son is almost 13, in middle school, has been in gym for 2 years now, spent the night at many kids houses and has gone on band trips where they did shower etc. after playing in the ocean.

These are the things my son says.

1. NO ONE looks at each others penis'. Sadly so many kids are still ridiculous and homophobic that if they teased someone about being intact, the one who pointed it out would probably be ridiculed for being "gay". Sad, but that is worse in the teasing department.

2. No one cares. My son has mentioned to kids that he was intact, and they were like "cool".

3. My son is glad that "no one cut off my penis".

4. I have a 3 month old son and while debating circ with my DH (new husband), my son said "stay away from his penis, it is not yours, you can't decide, I don't look at my dads penis so why would he be looking at yours".


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## homeschoolingmama (Jun 15, 2007)

My brother is 18. I am 30 so I watched him grow up.

I asked him recently if he has been teased or talked about in the locker rm. (He is a football player)
He said no way. A guy wouldn't be caught dead looking at another guys junk. His words, not mine


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## tutucrazy (Dec 30, 2008)

DH, who is intact, grew up in middle Tennessee at a time when the circ rate was much higher than it is today. He was on swim and wrestling team and spent plenty of time in the locker room. Never had a single comment in the locker rooms or elswhere. He was also the "naked" guy at the parties in college.







Not a single person ever said anything about his penis then either.


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## tutucrazy (Dec 30, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phrogger* 
I haven't read any responses, but my son is almost 13, in middle school, has been in gym for 2 years now, spent the night at many kids houses and has gone on band trips where they did shower etc. after playing in the ocean.

These are the things my son says.

1. NO ONE looks at each others penis'. Sadly so many kids are still ridiculous and homophobic that if they teased someone about being intact, the one who pointed it out would probably be ridiculed for being "gay". Sad, but that is worse in the teasing department.

2. No one cares. My son has mentioned to kids that he was intact, and they were like "cool".

3. My son is glad that "no one cut off my penis".

4. I have a 3 month old son and while debating circ with my DH (new husband), my son said "stay away from his penis, it is not yours, you can't decide, I don't look at my dads penis so why would he be looking at yours".

awesome!


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## trmpetplaya (May 30, 2005)

Neither my intact dh or my intact ex-bf (both in their mid-20s now) were ever teased because of their circumcision status. The circumcision rates are MUCH lower now than they were when either man was born so I would imagine that the chance of being teased would be even lower for boys born now.

Dh also doesn't "match" his father and it was never a big deal at all. Both he and I are very glad that his parents left his genitals alone and didn't alter them before he could either object or give consent.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I wanted to add that I asked ds1 about this, and he not only said that nobody has ever mentioned it, but that none of his friends have ever seen it. He says there isn't time to shower between classes, so "the guys" don't see him naked. He also says, as others have mentioned, that if someone did happen to see his penis, there is _no way_ they'd comment on it, because then they'd have everyone their case for "checking out another guy's junk" (junk...why "junk"?).

My ex (circ'd) and I split up when ds1 was 7. At that time, ds1 was still non-retractable. He never once mentioned the difference between him and his dad, except to ask once why daddy had hair down there. I think he was about 2.5 at that time.


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## hakunangovi (Feb 15, 2002)

Teasing is a total myth. I spent all 12 years of grade school in a boys only boarding school with totaly open, communal showers. One could not help but notice everyone else's status. In elementary school everyone looked, and the only comment that I recall was from a friend, at age 6, wondering why we were missing our foreskins. We had both recently discovered that other boys had something that we did not, and were quite horrified at the realisation that a piece of our penis had been cut off. Homophobia did not appear on anyone's radar until high school. I never witnessed one comment or teasing based on circumcision status. It was just accepted that there were two kinds of penis.


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## DocsNemesis (Dec 10, 2005)

My son is only 9.5 so I guess he doesnt count, although he is VERY proud of his penis and hasn't been made fun of at all.

My exes 2 brothers are intact and niether has ever been made fun of. They're adults now, in their 20's.


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## njeb (Sep 10, 2002)

My two intact sons are adults now, and neither of them was teased for it. And we live in the circ-happy Midwest!

Keep in mind that the circ. rate is lower now than it was when we were young, so your ds will have plenty of company.


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## vulturemom (May 23, 2009)

My DS is 17. Hi has never noticed that him and Dad were different. When he was about 8ish (can't remember the sure age) he did ask me why his penis was in the inside and friends was on the outside. I told him that some parents feel like it is best to remove the skin that covers the penis when their boys are born but we thought it was best to leave it alone. He made a face something like this







and said you mean that they cut off part of friends name penis I said yes and he seemed to think that was a very bad idea to say the least.

As he has gotten older I have asked if anyone has ever said anything to him and he assured me that anyone talking about and admitting that they noticed someone else penis would be the one made fun of not the owner of the penis.

He dates, he plays sports, has been caught skinny dipping







and does pretty a normal teenage boy stuff with out being ostracized by his peers. He has also never, never expressed a desire to have his foreskin removed


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## 123 (Jun 16, 2005)

I asked my 15 yr old this before replying to a post elsewhere. He said he doesn't know if his friends are cut and he doesn't think they know that he isn't. He doesn't see it as a big deal.


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## MrsReady2bMama (Mar 6, 2006)

I just wanted to say THANK YOU to everyone for the replies! I certainly agree with those that have mentioned that this certainly wouldn't qualify as a reason to circ a child; I just wanted to ask the question to have my bases covered. And now I do! Thanks again - it was nice to hear from the men too on this issue!!


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## MrsReady2bMama (Mar 6, 2006)

Just wanted to update to say that DH and I discussed again, and he has agreed to no circ







He said it just isn't that important to him either way, and I seem to feel strongly, so we're going to not circ if this one is a boy!! I'll update y'all again in 15 weeks or so


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)




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## PuppyFluffer (Mar 18, 2002)

How wonderful! I am so glad to here this and I can't wait to hear the baby news when he/she decides to make an appearance! I wish you a wonderful birth!


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## Night_Nurse (Nov 23, 2007)

Wonderful news!


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## crunchymamatobe (Jul 8, 2004)

My DP is intact and says he never encountered teasing, etc. He grew up in Southern CA, if that makes a difference.


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## Greg B (Mar 18, 2006)

Great news and fantastic job on your part being proactive and doing your homework!


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