# my angst about bra wearing and pre-adolescense



## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

I wonder if anyone wants to talk about bra wearing and pre-adolescents? I must admit to very conflicting feelings here. My dd could, I guess, wear a training bra, and has a few, but I wouldn't say it's the first thing that comes to mind for her when getting dressed. I don't push it because I don't want her to feel that she has to wear an item of clothing that she might not choose at this point. However, I have been told by a few relatives that my dd Should be wearing a training bra, that it's important for modesty, for not attracting attention in a "negative' way, for support, what have you.

Now, I don't think that this is going to be that big of a deal for dd. She will choose or not choose to wear a bra when and if she feels ready. Or maybe she will choose to wear cami's if that makes her feel comfortable. I will talk it through with her, talk about support for athletic activities, etc. I really think it will be just fine, when it needs to be fine. My big conflict is in how other people see my child...to me she's still a baby, yet a beginning pre-adolescent. I think she should have the time to decide what's right for her, when it's right. I don't want to hear anyone suggesting that my dd needs to not attract "negative" attention. Yuck! She has no idea what kind of attention is out there, and though I want to shield her, I am angry that little girls are sexualized. Maybe that's the crux of it...I just didn't expect to hear this talk about my little girl yet. I don't want this in her consciousness yet.

That was a bit of a vent-this is my first trip through this experience, so I don't have anything to fall back on. Anyone want to offer any BTDT ideas?


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## lifeguard (May 12, 2008)

My Mom got me a bra long before I was ready mentally (although physically I was quite ready). I shoved it to the back of the drawer & nothing was said about it again. When I felt it was time (I don't remember what prompted it - a comment from a friend or just mulling it over in my mind maybe) I started wearing it all the time. There was no stress about it & no embarassing moments either.

It was simply, you are developing physically now & many girls/women feel more comfortable being supported by a bra (I did develop very quickly & support was more the need), here is one, you can wear if/when you want.


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## skreader (Nov 19, 2008)

My dd asked for one when she was ~11, because she didn't like wearing her undershirt any more and "all the other girls" in her class were wearing one. IMHO she didn't really *need* one then, but I also wanted to support her desire to fit in and be comfortable.

I got her some sports-type bras & it worked out fine.


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## Jyotsna (Sep 24, 2004)

I really understand what you are saying. My dd1 is 9 and she asked for a bra at 8 years old, because she had some sudden development. It kind of blind sided me, except I could see she was developing breast, but "I" wasn't ready for her to wear a bra.

She picked out two bras to wear, the beginner bras, that are sweet with puppies and such, and wore them for some time. For some reason this summer she put them away in her drawer, and that is fine with me.

Funny thing is that my other daughter, same age, was not developing, but she begged for a bra, and I am quite sure she would have worn the bra if she already had it. : ) Each girl is different, and we have to respect whatever she wishes. She has to live right here, right now, in our society, how it is right here, right now.

Yes, I am angry that little girls are made into sex objects. That is horrible, and shows what the society we are living in, is like. I wish I could change that, but the only thing I can do is stand up for my daughter, as she wishes, to defame the way that girls are seen. My girls are also seen as smart, funny, athletic and so much more, and I will not allow society to define who my daughters are, and I don't think they will either.

Hugs mama!


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jyotsna* 
Each girl is different, and we have to respect whatever she wishes. She has to live right here, right now, in our society, how it is right here, right now.

Yes, I am angry that little girls are made into sex objects. That is horrible, and shows what the society we are living in, is like. I wish I could change that, but the only thing I can do is stand up for my daughter, as she wishes, to defame the way that girls are seen. My girls are also seen as smart, funny, athletic and so much more, and I will not allow society to define who my daughters are, and I don't think they will either.

Hugs mama!

Thank you. This is the way I feel as well. The bra wearing isn't the issue because I will help and support my dd as she wants, AND help her understand how to live in the real world. It's just that I was kind of taken aback by the idea of sexualizing a young child. Don't get me wrong-I'm far from naive. It's just a bit different when it's your own child.


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## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

Both the grandmothers are big on the girls wearing bras, and I don't think it has anything to do with the sexualization of little girls, in their minds anyhow. I has more to do with the coming of age tradition of girls and their mothers shopping for that first bra (or as my friend tells it, you weren't a real woman until you'd been felt up (ie fitted for your first bra) by the old Mrs. --- at the lingerie counter at the local department store--we're talking small towns here, folks); and I also think it has to do with simply that idea is that when girls develop breasts, they should wear bras. I don't think most people feel it is means the girl is looking for negative attention so much as that it is simply one of those things that many people in our parents and grandparents' generation do not question. It irritates me that my kids wear tennis shoes without socks. Mainly because that is not how *I* do things...I recognize that and don't say anything.

And they've got a point, to a degree. When your nipples stick out, people notice. Do you care? I mean, you can't really do much about your developing breasts and nipples. If you don't care, don't worry about it. If you want to smooth it out a bit so that it's not so noticeable, throw on a bra. Later it does indeed become an issue of support, and once again, if you need or want the support, throw on the bra. If not, don't worry about it.

We're "dealing" with this right now, for lack of a better word. My 11 yr old dd is just getting nubs. Her breasts are definitely noticeable under her t-shirts. We've had a brief discussion about this. For her, she is very uninterested and uncomfortable talking about this sort of thing. I'm not sure why. She just is naturally an extremely modest person. So when we discussed doing some school shopping this year, we talked briefly about looking at sport bras. With my oldest dd, she WANTED the bras way before she needed them. It's more of a fashion/style thing, with her. So this was never an issue. With my youngest, she would probably never bring it up. But I also know, based on her previous comments and her personality in general, she would be mortified if someone (a kid on the playground, a friend, an old grandma with filter issues) would say something about her developing breasts being noticeable under her shirt.

We're going to look at some very sporty bras, buy one or two, and then it's her can of beans whether she wants to wear them or not. My offer to buy her bras has nothing to do with sexualizing her. It has more to do with guiding her own sense of modesty, and allowing her the choice to wear them. After all, if you don't provide them with the bra, it's not really a choice for them, is it?

I totally get what the OP is saying, and I'm not saying that there isn't a lot of that in society, particularly in terms of clothing choices and what is viewed as acceptable behavior for girls vs boys--I'm just offering another perspective. I don't think the idea of buying girls bras when they are still youngish has to be sexualizing. To the OP--I think you are doing a great job being thoughtful about it and considering whether it is in your daughter's personality and lifestyle that she might want one. And the fact that it's about *her*, not about what others might say or think.


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## cinnamongrrl (Dec 30, 2007)

I don't see the bra issue as one of sexualizing so much as it is modesty. If you have breasts and you're wearing a thin, light shirt, people are going to notice your breasts, no matter what age you are. If you or your dd are concerned about modesty, you can put some options out there like a bra, a sport bra that looks like a tank top under a regular shirt, or just layering shirts, which is the style nowadays anyway. Because our culture does view visible breasts as immodest, you could have a conversation about it with your dd without being judgmental. It might be better for you to start that conversation now rather than have one of her peers tell her in an embarrassing way. When I was developing, I had a boy come up to me (I was wearing a white tee shirt) and point out that my nipples were showing. I was extremely embarrassed.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Underwear is just underwear. There's nothing sexual about buying panties for a 2 or 3yo who's freshly out of diapers, and there's nothing sexual about buying bras for a girl (whether she's 8 or 12) who's just starting to grow breasts.

DD1 was one of those girls who was super excited about getting her first bra. DD2 didn't care nearly as much, but she had DD1's hand-me-downs at first, and then I took her bra shopping when she wanted to wear bras more often and wanted to select something more comfortable (as what SHE found comfortable was different than what DD1 had selected.)

I've never pressured either one about bra wearing. I make sure they have bras that fit appropriately, and then the choice is theirs.


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## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

The two previous posters just said what I was trying to say, in a bout 1000 less words.


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## deny_zoo29 (Sep 21, 2008)

My mom bought me a couple of training bras when I was about 10 and just started to develop a little. I wore them a little bit but they drove me nuts! I can still remember the plastic clasps itching terribly. Needless to say it didn't take long before I wouldn't wear them, mom never said anything about it either way. A couple years later I got a couple of sports bras and wore them on gym class days at school (since I felt I needed the support and noticed mom always wear that type of bra when she worked out) and that slowly transitioned into wearing them daily purely by my choice. I actually only wore sports bras until I was about 17 or 18 and then I finally got a regular bra. I used to strip mine off as soon as I got home even up until a year or so ago. But I actually got a couple of nice very well fitting, soft, comfortable bras that I can wear all day with no issues...the only bad thing is when they're both in the wash! 
As far as it being a sexualizing thing...I don't know about it being sexual as so much as just the social norm. I agree with OPs as they said it'd be better to have mom mention when a bra should be worn (under tighter fitting t-shirts/tank tops or anything white or a sports bra during athletic activities) instead of having an insensitive boy or girl say something.
My suggestion is to buy her a couple of cute traning bras during back to school shopping when you'll be buying her new underwear and socks and other clothes and let her decide when to wear them (maybe with a little guidance from mom) and when she's ready she will. Don't make a huge deal about it but let her know they're there if she wants to wear them.
Good Luck! Our little girl won't be here for 3 more months and then we'll have a few years till bras and puberty but it's good to get perspective now!


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## mommajb (Mar 4, 2005)

I'll just chime in with what we are doing right now.

My 10 yo doesn't _need_ one and didn't ask but when she wears certain shirts I felt like she needed more for modesty's sake. I bought her 2-3 sports style/half cami bras when she got some new clothes recently. I can't tell when she is wearing them (isn't that the point?) but I do see them coming through the laundry. She doesn't have enough for everyday and we talked about white tshirts v black, etc. I made sure the ones we got were comfy and cute (think puppies and rainbows.







) not at all sexy. It is totally up to her at this point. I notice her friends wear them inconsistently too.


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## holothuroidea (Mar 30, 2008)

I didn't start developing breasts until I was 15, and my mom refused to get me a bra.

This was a source of a lot of embarrassment for me. When I was 10 my classmates were starting to wear bras, and the subject of my bralessness was fodder for a lot of very harsh teasing in the locker room.

I understand my mom's point of view now, for her it was a financial issue. We were poor and she simply could not afford to buy me a garment that I didn't need. But I begged and begged, I just wanted to fit in.

I say, around the age that girls start wearing bras get her one even if she doesn't "need" it. Stuff it in her drawer and let her decide if she wants to wear it.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karne* 
It's just a bit different when it's your own child.

Wait until the first time you see a grown man looking at your child in "that" way. My daughter's somehow blossomed this year, and is rather.... fetching. We were walking down the street together the other when I felt some guy's head turn to watch her pass. He definitely got a glare.

She asked me to take her bra shopping when she was...... 11? She didn't really need one, IMO, but she told me she wanted to go with me rather than her stepmom, who'd apparently made some comments about taking her. She wore them on and off, as the mood struck her, for a while. I left it up to her, although a few times I did say that whatever she was planning to wear might fit better with some support.


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## greenmama (Feb 8, 2002)

I "allowed" my flat 9yo dd to get a training bra because she had a loose jumper she wore that exposed her nipples often and I though she should put something on and she picked the bra over a tank top because some of her equally flat friends own "bras". I started wearing a "bra" before I was developed enough to warrant one because you would get teased in the gym locker room in Jr. High if you didn't wear them yet, but that was at 12 not 9.


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## Bethla (May 29, 2004)

My mom is very anti-bra. She would not buy me any even though I started developing around age 10. I was embarrassed and often dressed in layers with several shirts. I started buying bras with my own money when I started working at around age 15.


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## mommajb (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
Wait until the first time you see a grown man looking at your child in "that" way. My daughter's somehow blossomed this year, and is rather.... fetching. We were walking down the street together the other when I felt some guy's head turn to watch her pass. He definitely got a glare.

This, except my dd has blossomed yet other than height-wise. She is a "tall-poppy".

I hate when I get it from other mothers. Dd1 was in a running club this summer and when I first met one of the other moms she commented on dd and asked how we were dealing with all the boys. To her credit (or because it went right over her head) Dd said it was a co-ed team and if they wanted they could try to run with her but that she has the advantage of long legs.







It was particularly funny because she is not actually very fast.


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## A&A (Apr 5, 2004)

Target has some great training bras that are more like short, tight tank tops and don't really feel like a "bra."


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommajb* 
This, except my dd has blossomed yet other than height-wise. She is a "tall-poppy".

I hate when I get it from other mothers. Dd1 was in a running club this summer and when I first met one of the other moms she commented on dd and asked how we were dealing with all the boys. To her credit (or because it went right over her head) Dd said it was a co-ed team and if they wanted they could try to run with her but that she has the advantage of long legs.







It was particularly funny because she is not actually very fast.









LOL My daughter's pretty savvy and has a good clue what they're after, but she has a good dose of self-confidence and attitude. And the smarts to make wise choices. But I kinda feel sorry for any guy she chooses to go out with.

It's an interesting time.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mtiger* 
LOL My daughter's pretty savvy and has a good clue what they're after, but she has a good dose of self-confidence and attitude. And the smarts to make wise choices. But I kinda feel sorry for any guy she chooses to go out with.

It's an interesting time.

You just discribed my dd too. (Except I don't feel sorry for the guys, but I think that's a dad thing).


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## Mulvah (Aug 12, 2008)

If my child were interested, regardless of age, I would comply with something age appropriate.


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## sparklefairy (May 21, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *A&A* 
Target has some great training bras that are more like short, tight tank tops and don't really feel like a "bra."

These are working well for my dd. Unfortunately, the only other small-sized option our closest Target had was the mega-padded version.


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## ghostlykisses (Sep 27, 2007)

My dd is 9 and she is really developing. She takes after me, I was wearing a c cup in the 5th grade. We already got her bras for modesty. I never really thought about it because it was how things were when I was that age too. Also it really did not seem like a big deal to tell her they were for modesty because we have talked about modesty so much over the years that it is no big deal.

We do not push the bra wearing most of the time. There are just some outfits that need them because of the cut or the fabric.

I am not sure about any of you but when I was starting to get breast buds I was happy to have a bra to smooth things out. Some stages of breast growth can be very awkward looking and it made me feel self concious. I think it is probably nice to give a girl the option to have one on hand just in case she might wake up one morning and feel the need for one. Maybe that was just my experience, I don't know.

Sigh.....sometimes I think I liked the terrible twos better than all this!


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## orangefoot (Oct 8, 2004)

My breasts are still 'awkward looking' at 35. I am about a 36AAA and I don't wear a bra to smooth things out.

I haven't worn any kind of boob restricting underwear for a good while now and didn't wear anything for the last six months of bf my dd.

I often go out in just a t shirt and I have to say that I haven't found anyone staring at my nipples. If they do look I imagine that they register the fact that I can't be wearing a bra in the same way as they register that I wear compression hosiery one one leg (due to DVT) and don't comment on either of these. I don't think I'm attracting unwanted attention and I am a sexually active woman with 4 children as evidence not a child.

If she is happy not to cover her nipples then don't make her feel bad about it. Tell your relatives that they need to get over themselves - register it and move on - end of story. Why are they looking at her chest anyway?

Going from being 'free' to being restricted by elasticated garments is an odd sensation. I don't like it and I don't need it so I choose not to wear them any more.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
You just discribed my dd too. (Except I don't feel sorry for the guys, but I think that's a dad thing).

LOL Mine has a very sharp tongue. So yeah - I feel sorry for the boys.


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## G8P4 (Jan 21, 2007)

I have tried to replace some of DD's t shirts with the kind of t shirt that has a little bit of gathered material in the front. The ripples in the shirt kind of hide everything. And I have bought a couple of little bra tops, which she sometimes wears and sometimes doesn't wear.


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## TiredX2 (Jan 7, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sparklefairy* 
These are working well for my dd. Unfortunately, the only other small-sized option our closest Target had was the mega-padded version.









Seriously, what is up with that?

DD & I just went and got her 1st "bras" yesterday (the smaller tanky ones at target, but with spaghetti straps) and she looked quite askance at all the padded ones.


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## journeymom (Apr 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sparklefairy* 
These are working well for my dd. Unfortunately, the only other small-sized option our closest Target had was the mega-padded version.










Quote:


Originally Posted by *TiredX2* 
Seriously, what is up with that?

DD & I just went and got her 1st "bras" yesterday (the smaller tanky ones at target, but with spaghetti straps) and she looked quite askance at all the padded ones.

10 points to your house for using the term ' looked askance' in normal conversation.









14 y.o. daughter and I noticed the same thing at Target just last week. All the regular looking bras with cute prints are push-up. They're obviously marketed to teens, as well, so you'd think they'd provide _some_ bras without push-ups.







:


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Kohl's also has padded training bras which dd decided she had to have (we were buying a few types to try out). Holy moly-not the look I was hoping for for her! DD was pretty impressed with herself, but the plain athletic version seemed most comfy to her, and thus became her choice.


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## layne (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *karne* 
Kohl's also has padded training bras which dd decided she had to have (we were buying a few types to try out). Holy moly-not the look I was hoping for for her! DD was pretty impressed with herself, but the plain athletic version seemed most comfy to her, and thus became her choice.

Okay, that is the funniest thing I have read all day. I remember wanting those when I was in junior high and not developing anything and then thinking maybe people would notice if I only had boobs on the days when that particular bra was clean.
My dd asked for bras over a year ago but is another "tall poppy" and really doesn't need one. I got her some of the camis with shelf bras for modesty issues under white shirts and tanks and told her maybe in a year or two. She said she just wanted it to be like a teenager.
Now that she is getting closer to being a teenager she is totally reluctant to grow up and I am worried she will be uncomfortable with the issue but plan to let her pick out some of the thin spaghetti strap types in colors she likes pretty soon (or as soon as I can afford it) anyway just because so many girls her age are wearing them that I am afraid if she does not have them, that might be noticed.
I was pretty much driving before I needed one and suspect she will be too but since they are becoming so common so young, I just don't want it to be something she feels insecure about. So we'll buy a few and if she wants to stuff them under the bed, that's her business.


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## amj'smommy (Feb 24, 2005)

my dd (10 1/2) was picking out new underware and a few bras the other day and she was wondering why in the world someone would want a padded bra, lol







she wears the sports style over the head types...not every day but I have noticed she is wearing them more often (she'll be in 5th grade this year... sniff....sniff)


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## KJoslyn78 (Jun 3, 2007)

Amj'smommy - my oldest is 10 1/2 and entering 5th grade this year too... i hear ya *sniff*

we are at this point where it is VERY noticable if dd doesnt wear her bra... and i worry that kind of neg impact that will have if kids at school notice. We did do the sports type bras last year, but she actually prefers the tradation bra type. We do have to remind her to wear them though.. but not because she doesnt want too, i think its just not something she is keeping at the front of her mind that she needs to wear now (since we dont push her to wear it when we plan on staying home, and never for bed)


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## sew_crafty_girl (May 15, 2009)

We're dealing with this too. My 10 yr old DSD hates wearing her stretchy, tank style bras. She's been developing since 9.

My 10 1/2 yr old DD, OTOH, doesn't need one and she picks out the underwire lacey types. I notice the novelty is wearing off though.


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## AbbieB (Mar 21, 2006)

I thought on my all of the grandmothers seem so concerned about bras:

Last year I was surprised to learn from my mother and aunt that they both wear body suits because they were taught that it is not OK for a women to have any kind of jiggle, be it breasts, belly, butt or what ever. When I questioned my grandparents about it they quite emphatically confirmed it. I know that my mother in law and her sisters all strap everything they can down too. It must be a generational thing.

My DD is only 5, so I have not been through this yet. I am a bit worried what will happen with her since I am a DD cup and I don't wear a bra unless it is absolutely necessary. I have gotten by with tanks with a self bra for almost 6 years now (easy for nursing, my breast size has been all over the place so nursing bras never quite worked out for me.) I just can't see myself pushing for a bra, but I'm sure others in the family will say something.

On the other hand, DD has quite a sense of fashion/style. i can see her being excited to wear one for the fashion of it.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

As for the padding, I remember when I was that age wanting padding because I had breast buds and they kind of showed even with some training bras, and the padding would make them less visible, which I greatly appreciated because I was shy and insecure about it, as a lot of girls that age are. Anyway, my guess is that the padding is for modesty and not to make girls look bigger.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *amj'smommy* 
my dd (10 1/2) was picking out new underware and a few bras the other day and she was wondering why in the world someone would want a padded bra, lol







she wears the sports style over the head types...not every day but I have noticed she is wearing them more often (she'll be in 5th grade this year... sniff....sniff)

One of my daughters was all about the padded bras, even when she was barely a AA cup. She was just embarrassed about her nipples showing through clothes. Before I bought her bras, she used to wear 4-5 layers of shirts (including undershirts plus some shirts layered because it was stylish to do so) to cover her nipples. The padded bra enabled her to go down to 2 or 3 layers (one layer being the bra.)

My other daugher never cared if her nipples showed or not. It's not a matter of her nipples being less prominent than her sister's, just a different comfort level. The padding in bras has to do with nipple coverage/modestly, not about "looking bigger."

AbbieB- they don't like jiggle AT ALL? Not even my 14yo can avoid that anymore! May I ask if your "embarrassed to show any jiggle whatsoever" aunt and mom are bigger than a D cup?


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## lorijds (Jun 6, 2002)

Re: the bra being a fashion accessory--oh, yeah.

Oldest dd's clothes routinely show the bra strap. They are part of the outfit, not mere functional underclothing. She only has one white bra, but she has 5 or 6 colorful bras, some with designs, some solid.


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## sewchris2642 (Feb 28, 2009)

I bought bras as the girls asked for them or when it became necessary under their t-shirts for modesty. Joy went almost immediately to underwires. Erica and Angela wore sport type bras for the longest time.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X (Nov 18, 2004)

My dd recently got one in a bag of clothes from a slightly older cousin. She had to put it on and wear it







she is almost 9 and has zero development going on, still very much a child.

I told her that she could wear it if she wants to but she dosnt really need it. I have no intention of telling her she needs a bra ever. I will make sure the her tops are the kind that do not highlight the no bra thing just like I wear.

I have been bra free for many years now 42 C-D and have no intention of wearing one again if I can help it at all. She will always have the option of an undershirt or a bra if that is what she chooses but I dont want her to think she ever has to wear one to fit in. Dont want my kids to ever think they need to wear any article of clothing to fit in for that matter.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bethla* 
My mom is very anti-bra. She would not buy me any even though I started developing around age 10. I was embarrassed and often dressed in layers with several shirts. I started buying bras with my own money when I started working at around age 15.

I was not allowed out of the house without a bra after about the age of 10. (I was a 36C by 11)

My 16 year old wears padded bras becuase she says they are warmer.







now what we can't figure out is why they would have PUSH UP bras in her size. (34DD if we can find it.)

My 10 year old didn't war a bra much at the beginning of 5th grade. (9/10) but she started wearing them more towards the end. She is now wearing a 34B so I expect her to be large like the rest of the family in this area.


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## miss_sonja (Jun 15, 2003)

It's funny how bra experiences go. I remember declaring as a 2nd or 3rd grader that I would "never wear a bra". And I didn't for a long time, even after I really could have used one for comfort and modesty. My mom didn't suggest one (or even any useful alternatives, like camisoles), but she did make pointed comments that led to me wearing two t-shirts all the time.

I got my first bra at 16, in a small local department store, with my dad waiting uncomfortably while I tried them on.

My 9 year old is just starting to develop. I suggested she try some thin camisoles and we got some nice soft ones at Target. She loves them, and wears them most every day (and as sleep tops). I'm just going to keep it matter-of-fact and take her shopping as needed. I don't want to load the issue, as it was for me. A bra is just underwear, and makes for comfort and modesty.

For those needing more support, Justice (used to be Limited Too) has a wide selection of simple styles, pullover as well as clasp-back, and reasonably priced, esp if you do a search for a coupon.


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## Ericka1999 (Aug 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *greenmama* 
I "allowed" my flat 9yo dd to get a training bra because she had a loose jumper she wore that exposed her nipples often and I though she should put something on and she picked the bra over a tank top because some of her equally flat friends own "bras". I started wearing a "bra" before I was developed enough to warrant one because you would get teased in the gym locker room in Jr. High if you didn't wear them yet, but that was at 12 not 9.

My oldest daughter who's 9 now still is flat chested.Instead of having my daughter wear a training bra, I have her wear clothes that don't expose her nipples when going outside.Whereas she wears loose clothes including jumpers around the house and outside in our 10 acre fenced yard.


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## layne (Oct 12, 2002)

Target has two packs of the thin kind for five bucks. I was so worried about the whole ordeal but my daughter was pretty nonplussed and picked one with frogs. The frogs reassured me too. We talked about how she didn't have to wear it but when she wants to she can. I was much too shy to ask for one when I started needing one so this puts it in her hands and I am relieved. I am also relieved that even though girls are wearing them so much younger, they have ones that aren't too grown up. There were all kinds of rainbows and little animals on them! I wish I could find cheap comfortable bras with cute animals in my size!


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

What do you mean girls are wearing them so much younger? My kids are OLDER than I was!


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## layne (Oct 12, 2002)

It would have been really unusual for a girl to wear a bra in fifth grade where I grew up. At my daughter's school and activities I have seen quite a few straps hanging out on third graders.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *layne* 
It would have been really unusual for a girl to wear a bra in fifth grade where I grew up. At my daughter's school and activities I have seen quite a few straps hanging out on third graders.

Not where I grew up. Sure not all of them did.. but many. I was in the fourth grade not fifth when I started needing them.

My mom never took me to buy my first bra. I had hand me downs from my cousin as always.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *layne* 
I am also relieved that even though girls are wearing them so much younger, they have ones that aren't too grown up. There were all kinds of rainbows and little animals on them! I wish I could find cheap comfortable bras with cute animals in my size!

It's funny, but I had the exact opposite response to the rainbows and kiddie patterns when I was underwear shopping for dd (nearly 11) the other day. While she's not yet at the point of needing a bra, I imagine she will be in the next year or so. She would be totally mortified to wear a bra or underwear to middle school with cartoons on them especially since they have to change out for PE in a locker room. I had a horrible time trying to find her plain undies that didn't make her look like a 6 y/o.


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## CrunchyChristianMama (Dec 5, 2008)

I haven't read the whole thread, but wanted to throw out there why I started wearing one. I got made fun of in gym class when we were changing because I didn't have one on. That did it for me.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN* 
It's funny, but I had the exact opposite response to the rainbows and kiddie patterns when I was underwear shopping for dd (nearly 11) the other day. While she's not yet at the point of needing a bra, I imagine she will be in the next year or so. She would be totally mortified to wear a bra or underwear to middle school with cartoons on them especially since they have to change out for PE in a locker room. I had a horrible time trying to find her plain undies that didn't make her look like a 6 y/o.

Totally agree, my DDs would curl up and die at the thought of that.

I don't understand the idea of trying to infantalize a girl who is growing up. There is nothing threatening or unwholesome about puberty, it is natural for our daughters to grow up, grow breasts and wear bras. Well, I don't know if bras are all that natural







but the need for bras is natural.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

:

DD is willing to be different... but not that different. When we had to buy her first bra she specifically said "Nothing cutesy, no little pictures of fuzzy animals. Just a bra. Ok?"


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## mommajb (Mar 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Totally agree, my DDs would curl up and die at the thought of that.

I don't understand the idea of trying to infantalize a girl who is growing up. There is nothing threatening or unwholesome about puberty, it is natural for our daughters to grow up, grow breasts and wear bras. Well, I don't know if bras are all that natural







but the need for bras is natural.

But are all bras sexy and is the opposite of sexy childish? I say go with what the wearer wants. I don't like cutesy for me but dd would like nothing better than a light blue half cami style bra with a green peace sign on it.







I do like the idea of letting our girls be girls and not worry about sexy until they are ready. There is a range of needs and that is why 28AAAA comes in cutesy or in padded, lacy, pushup styles.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommajb* 
There is a range of needs and that is why 28AAAA comes in cutesy or in padded, lacy, pushup styles.

Dd would also balk significantly at the idea of lace, padded, or push-up bras. I imagine that she'll be wanting the same thing she wants in her underwear: solid neutral colors with nothing on it. She's a navy and white, classic styles type of kid. I like the idea of push-up bras a lot less than frogs on bras for young girls.


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## layne (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Totally agree, my DDs would curl up and die at the thought of that.

I don't understand the idea of trying to infantalize a girl who is growing up. There is nothing threatening or unwholesome about puberty, it is natural for our daughters to grow up, grow breasts and wear bras. Well, I don't know if bras are all that natural







but the need for bras is natural.

Many girls start wearing bras way before they are ready to be grown up. Also, I have never stopped liking cartoon animals and certainly don't think that infantilizes me. What seems unhealthy to me is rushing children into adolescence and increasingly adult roles way before they are ready. I mean, an elementary school girl may start to change physically but that does not mean that she is no longer a child. I hope to god my daughter continues to enjoy her childhood for a few more years and yes, cartoon animals are pretty much par for the course. Hello Kitty anyone?


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *layne* 
Many girls start wearing bras way before they are ready to be grown up. Also, I have never stopped liking cartoon animals and certainly don't think that infantilizes me. What seems unhealthy to me is rushing children into adolescence and increasingly adult roles way before they are ready. I mean, an elementary school girl may start to change physically but that does not mean that she is no longer a child. I hope to god my daughter continues to enjoy her childhood for a few more years and yes, cartoon animals are pretty much par for the course. Hello Kitty anyone?

Uhh.. I never liked hello Kitty and sure wouldn't want it on my underwear at any age.

I don't see how buying a 10 or 11 year old a bra that is blue, or white, or pink rather than covered in puppy dogs or kitty's is rushing them into adolescence before they are ready.


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## Ericka1999 (Aug 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *layne* 
It would have been really unusual for a girl to wear a bra in fifth grade where I grew up. At my daughter's school and activities I have seen quite a few straps hanging out on third graders.

This just comes to show that girls are starting to develop earlier and earlier each passing year.Two culprits would be A. today's food supplies including milk, dairy, and animal products have more growth hormones injected than compared to previous decades.B its this media trying to sexualize young girl make them grow up sooner.

Also in this society in both sides one getting either offened or aroused seeing breast buds/nip slips, also having to wear a bra to cover a 8-9yr old's chest under it even wearing a shirt under it in other words sexualizing younger girls.In Europe it's a different story, I remember when my family went to Europe for summer vacation back when my sister was 16 and I was 14 we wear a T-shirt/tank top without a bra under it, and I realized that it was different meaning that both my sister and I didn't get any stares, everyone was minding there own business.When I went to France in my college years a friend that I made over there we talked about this aspect girls/wearing bra, what age they start to wear and what place and situations most go braless.

My sister who has an 11/2 yr old daughter has been in this eating organic foods lifestyle for 13yrs.So therefore she has raised her 2 kids including her 11y.o daughter eating organic foods consuming little dairy products, including filtered reverse osmosis water, etc..As a result they are healthier than there peers .Anyways my 11/2y.o niece is still nearly flat chested that my sister has only bought her a few plain white bra just for formal occasions, also when going to school.She only wears it when going to school and wears clothes when going outside that don't accidently expose her nipples when kneeling/bending down.


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## Manessa (Feb 24, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *layne* 
It would have been really unusual for a girl to wear a bra in fifth grade where I grew up. At my daughter's school and activities I have seen quite a few straps hanging out on third graders.

I was wearing a bra in the 4th grade and I really needed it. My daughter is much smaller than I was at her age.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ericka1999* 
This just comes to show that girls are starting to develop earlier and earlier each passing year.Two culprits would be A. today's food supplies including milk, dairy, and animal products have more growth hormones injected than compared to previous decades.B its this media trying to sexualize young girl make them grow up sooner.

Also in this society in both sides one getting either offened or aroused seeing breast buds/nip slips, also having to wear a bra to cover a 8-9yr old's chest under it even wearing a shirt under it in other words sexualizing younger girls.In Europe it's a different story, I remember when my family went to Europe for summer vacation back when my sister was 16 and I was 14 we wear a T-shirt/tank top without a bra under it, and I realized that it was different meaning that both my sister and I didn't get any stares, everyone was minding there own business.When I went to France in my college years a friend that I made over there we talked about this aspect girls/wearing bra, what age they start to wear and what place and situations most go braless.

My sister who has an 11/2 yr old daughter has been in this eating organic foods lifestyle for 13yrs.So therefore she has raised her 2 kids including her 11y.o daughter eating organic foods consuming little dairy products, including filtered reverse osmosis water, etc..As a result they are healthier than there peers .Anyways my 11/2y.o niece is still nearly flat chested that my sister has only bought her a few plain white bra just for formal occasions, also when going to school.She only wears it when going to school and wears clothes when going outside that don't accidently expose her nipples when kneeling/bending down.

I ate loads of dairy on a daily basis and I was flat chested till I was 15. My younger sister ate the same diet and needed a bra by 11-12.

I don't feel the need to "blame" puberty on anything, since it is natural and comes to each of us at the time that is right for our own body.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ericka1999* 
This just comes to show that girls are starting to develop earlier and earlier each passing year.Two culprits would be A. today's food supplies including milk, dairy, and animal products have more growth hormones injected than compared to previous decades.B its this media trying to sexualize young girl make them grow up sooner.

Also in this society in both sides one getting either offened or aroused seeing breast buds/nip slips, also having to wear a bra to cover a 8-9yr old's chest under it even wearing a shirt under it in other words sexualizing younger girls.In Europe it's a different story, I remember when my family went to Europe for summer vacation back when my sister was 16 and I was 14 we wear a T-shirt/tank top without a bra under it, and I realized that it was different meaning that both my sister and I didn't get any stares, everyone was minding there own business.When I went to France in my college years a friend that I made over there we talked about this aspect girls/wearing bra, what age they start to wear and what place and situations most go braless.

My sister who has an 11/2 yr old daughter has been in this eating organic foods lifestyle for 13yrs.So therefore she has raised her 2 kids including her 11y.o daughter eating organic foods consuming little dairy products, including filtered reverse osmosis water, etc..As a result they are healthier than there peers .Anyways my 11/2y.o niece is still nearly flat chested that my sister has only bought her a few plain white bra just for formal occasions, also when going to school.She only wears it when going to school and wears clothes when going outside that don't accidently expose her nipples when kneeling/bending down.

I really don't think your nieces diet has anything to do with it. My 10 year old wears a B and while she did drink lots of dairy as a baby, she hasn't since she was about 2. By 3 we made sure to buy milk that did not have rBgh and by 5 we were only buying organic diary and she has been drinking only raw milk the last 2 years. Some girls just developed sooner than other.

And honestly if ANYTHING is to blame for it "seeming" that girls are wearing bras sooner than before it would be the fact that MANY of them are overweight. I have read many times that puberty hits about when a girl is 100 lbs. I don't think it is "hormones" in milk but more the all over weight of the child that effects these things. That and genes. Some people are just large chested and develop earlier than others.


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## Ericka1999 (Aug 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I ate loads of dairy on a daily basis and I was flat chested till I was 15. My younger sister ate the same diet and needed a bra by 11-12.

I don't feel the need to "blame" puberty on anything, since it is natural and comes to each of us at the time that is right for our own body.

Well lots of other factors cause to girls to develop sooner. i.e obesity in which most obese kids consume alot of injected bovine hormone milk.Also genetic weak areas is another factor.Race and climes is another factor.

For an example you have 2 people smoke one happens to have a genetic weak area of the heart and artaries.When those 2 people smoke 10-25yrs go by the person with the genetic weak area in the circulatory system would end up with heart disease, narrowing/blocked artery at the age of 40.Where this other person would have somewhat fair heal of a heart at the age of 75 even after decades of smoking..


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## layne (Oct 12, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Uhh.. I never liked hello Kitty and sure wouldn't want it on my underwear at any age.

I don't see how buying a 10 or 11 year old a bra that is blue, or white, or pink rather than covered in puppy dogs or kitty's is rushing them into adolescence before they are ready.

Oh good grief. I never advocated forcing girls to wear underwear with cartoons on it at any age. I suppose that having allowed her to have one (which she picked out and likes) with cartoons on it is a sign that I have forcibly infantilized her.
FTR, neither I nor my children drink or have drunk conventionally produced dairy products except on very rare occasions and we were all organic for years and none of us have been obese and yes, DD is a late bloomer as was I. But just because a girl is developing physically does not mean that she is ready to leave childhood emotionally, and I would think that being able to choose more age appropriate options would be a good thing. The pushup and lacy underwire styles offered in the children's sections are much creepier to me.


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## Ericka1999 (Aug 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I really don't think your nieces diet has anything to do with it. My 10 year old wears a B and while she did drink lots of dairy as a baby, she hasn't since she was about 2. By 3 we made sure to buy milk that did not have rBgh and by 5 we were only buying organic diary and she has been drinking only raw milk the last 2 years. Some girls just developed sooner than other.

And honestly if ANYTHING is to blame for it "seeming" that girls are wearing bras sooner than before it would be the fact that MANY of them are overweight. I have read many times that puberty hits about when a girl is 100 lbs. I don't think it is "hormones" in milk but more the all over weight of the child that effects these things. That and genes. Some people are just large chested and develop earlier than others.

Well being over-weight & bovine growth hormones in milk are both the factors as to why girls are developing earlier.Another factor would be genetically weak areas, also race and climate etc..I have read and heard that in the old days 150yrs ago girls at the age of 15-16 would start there period where as today the average age is 13 and younger.Same thing for boys the average age of puberty was 15-16 where as today it's 13.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I know a family that has their own organic farm and feeds their kids off that farm and the kids drink only goat milk from their goats. Their two daughters started puberty early. I'm very careful about the growth hormones, but I'm starting to doubt that link. The friend with the above-mentioned daughters said that she thinks it's because people in general are healthier and if we are healthier for generation after generation, our bodies can theoretically handle pregnancy earlier and nature likes that kind of thing, so we start puberty earlier. I don't know if that's the case either, but I'm not sure about the non-organic foods either.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *layne* 
Oh good grief. I never advocated forcing girls to wear underwear with cartoons on it at any age. I suppose that having allowed her to have one (which she picked out and likes) with cartoons on it is a sign that I have forcibly infantilized her.
FTR, neither I nor my children drink or have drunk conventionally produced dairy products except on very rare occasions and we were all organic for years and none of us have been obese and yes, DD is a late bloomer as was I. But just because a girl is developing physically does not mean that she is ready to leave childhood emotionally, and I would think that being able to choose more age appropriate options would be a good thing. The pushup and lacy underwire styles offered in the children's sections are much creepier to me.

Did I say you said that? What I said was, that plain colored bras are NOT forcing our children into adolescents sooner. I have never seen lacy under wire bra's in the children's section, but then again, they don't carry anything above an A there. We now have to buy my daughter's bra's in the "adult" section and there are PLENTY of modest bra's for younger girls. And BTW.. since anything about an A is in the adult section of course there are going to be more mature styles there was well.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ericka1999* 
Well being over-weight & bovine growth hormones in milk are both the factors as to why girls are developing earlier.Another factor would be genetically weak areas, also race and climate etc..I have read and heard that in the old days 150yrs ago girls at the age of 15-16 would start there period where as today the average age is 13 and younger.Same thing for boys the average age of puberty was 15-16 where as today it's 13.

I am just not getting why someone who develops earlier would be genetically weak. That makes no sense at all.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamazee* 
I know a family that has their own organic farm and feeds their kids off that farm and the kids drink only goat milk from their goats. Their two daughters started puberty early. I'm very careful about the growth hormones, but I'm starting to doubt that link. The friend with the above-mentioned daughters said that she thinks it's because people in general are healthier and if we are healthier for generation after generation, our bodies can theoretically handle pregnancy earlier and nature likes that kind of thing, so we start puberty earlier. I don't know if that's the case either, but I'm not sure about the non-organic foods either.









: I have actually heard that as well.

People 150 years ago were malnourished and malnutrition is known to cause puberty to start later.

I would be interested to know at what age people in properly nourished ancient civilizations started puberty.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:

They found that Paleolithic girls arrived at menarche - the first occurrence of menstruation - between *seven and 13 years*. This is a similar age to modern girls, which suggests that this is the evolutionarily determined age of puberty in girls.

"snipped"

Disease and poor nutrition became more common as humans settled, causing puberty to be delayed. Modern hygiene, nutrition and medicine have allowed the age of menarche to fall to its original range.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1201022811.htm


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## Ericka1999 (Aug 4, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1201022811.htm

Well I believe that neanderthal beings started puberty earlier compared to **** sapians.Although I'm not sure if Paleolithic people were either neanderthal, or **** sapain or both neanderthal and **** sapians living together at the same time.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ericka1999* 
This just comes to show that girls are starting to develop earlier and earlier each passing year.Two culprits would be A. today's food supplies including milk, dairy, and animal products have more growth hormones injected than compared to previous decades.B its this media trying to sexualize young girl make them grow up sooner.

Also in this society in both sides one getting either offened or aroused seeing breast buds/nip slips, also having to wear a bra to cover a 8-9yr old's chest under it even wearing a shirt under it in other words sexualizing younger girls.In Europe it's a different story, I remember when my family went to Europe for summer vacation back when my sister was 16 and I was 14 we wear a T-shirt/tank top without a bra under it, and I realized that it was different meaning that both my sister and I didn't get any stares, everyone was minding there own business.When I went to France in my college years a friend that I made over there we talked about this aspect girls/wearing bra, what age they start to wear and what place and situations most go braless.

My sister who has an 11/2 yr old daughter has been in this eating organic foods lifestyle for 13yrs.So therefore she has raised her 2 kids including her 11y.o daughter eating organic foods consuming little dairy products, including filtered reverse osmosis water, etc..As a result they are healthier than there peers .Anyways my 11/2y.o niece is still nearly flat chested that my sister has only bought her a few plain white bra just for formal occasions, also when going to school.She only wears it when going to school and wears clothes when going outside that don't accidently expose her nipples when kneeling/bending down.

DD has been raised on organic, hormon free food. She started developing at 9. Genetics plays a much bigger role.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ericka1999* 
Well I believe that neanderthal beings started puberty earlier compared to **** sapians.Although I'm not sure if Paleolithic people were either neanderthal, or **** sapain or both neanderthal and **** sapians living together at the same time.

The paleolithic people were **** Sapiens, same as you and me.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:

Disease and poor nutrition became more common as humans settled, causing puberty to be delayed. *Modern hygiene, nutrition and medicine have allowed the age of menarche to fall to its original range.*
That is my main thought on this.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

OK, then lets come forward in time some:

Quote:

We have already seen that the average age of puberty was 12 to 13 among girls and around I4 for boys.
http://www.touregypt.net/HistoricalE...feinEgypt8.htm

running late will check out some others later.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Here bra's tend to be all in one place with no Adult section or Kids section. That being said, it strikes me as odd that a kids section would not have anything above an A. If anything, it illustrates societies need to keep little girls, little girls. After all they aren't supposed to have breast bigger then an A (if at all).


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## FernG (Feb 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I ate loads of dairy on a daily basis and I was flat chested till I was 15. My younger sister ate the same diet and needed a bra by 11-12.

I don't feel the need to "blame" puberty on anything, since it is natural and comes to each of us at the time that is right for our own body.

rBGH wasn't licensed, and thus not in the food supply, until 1994, so you wouldn't have been effected by it. You would have been exposed to normal bovine growth hormones in milk, but not the GMO synthetic version.

Anecdotally, the population of girls at the summer camp I used to work at has dramatically changed in the last decade. In the '90s, there were always about 2 girls out of 1,600 who had their periods while at camp. About 12 each summer were curvy. Now, all of the 11- and 12-year- olds are curvy, and many have their periods each week. It's a dramatic change. Something has changed in the last decade - it could be birth control in the water, rBGH, the estrogen-like effects of more plastic exposure, or something else.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

How about this, girls at no longer being told they have to sit at home and do nothing while on their period.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Here bra's tend to be all in one place with no Adult section or Kids section. That being said, it strikes me as odd that a kids section would not have anything above an A. If anything, it illustrates societies need to keep little girls, little girls. After all they aren't supposed to have breast bigger then an A (if at all).

Yea.. the underwear in that section goes up to a size 16, (which is about what a 105 girl would wear.) But bra's are only up to an A then you have to go to the adult section.


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## tiffani (May 17, 2002)

it could also be that more form-fitting clothes are the norm now, so you notice the curves earlier???

my dd grew up in canada, where there is no bvgh, and she's developing early, right around the same age I did in the US 25 years before her... I'd say genetics is the biggest factor, though I agree that more body fat leads to earlier puberty, perhaps -- really skinny kids seem to enter puberty later than others. I wonder which comes first, though -- my dd has always been "average sized" right from birth, and in the last year she's gotten slightly puffier, shall we say, and she's also developing pubic hair and breast growth (along with the soreness, so it's not just extra fat)... I think kids tend to pack on a little extra weight right before puberty, so it might seem that "obese" kids enter puberty sooner... chicken and the egg thing...

in any case, we are currently living in new zealand, where shopping options are a little more limited, and we have a hard time finding tank tops/camisoles that DON'T have a shelf bra already inside, and this is size 8, 10... my dd is adamant that she doesn't want a shelf bra inside her shirt, though I'm guessing in the next few months her tune will change, as she's already complaining about her new bounciness, and she's barely bouncy.


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## FernG (Feb 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
How about this, girls at no longer being told they have to sit at home and do nothing while on their period.

In my culture, that wasn't a popular idea in the '90s or today. I don't think that idea would make a difference in the camp population that I talked about.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Many girls have gotten that from the mom/aunt/grandma/friends at school and were never corrected. It's very easy for a girl to think "I'm not suppsed to do sports/go swimming/involve my self in a wide variety of activities you do at camp during that time so I just won't go."

There has also been a change in opinions about younger girls who have started their period. People are finally accepting that yes, 10/11/12 year old are starting their period and it's not something to hide.

Finally, I doubt you talked to all 1,600 girls and if you did got an honest reponse from every single one. Or even honestly from all the girls you talked to if you didn't talk to all of them. And it goes both ways. If the first couple are saying the haven't started yet, the others are more likely to follow that lead to avoid being the weird ones and visa verca for those who say they did, a certain percentage of girls will lie and say "me too" just to not be left out.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Many girls have gotten that from the mom/aunt/grandma/friends at school and were never corrected. It's very easy for a girl to think "I'm not suppsed to do sports/go swimming/involve my self in a wide variety of activities you do at camp during that time so I just won't go."

There has also been a change in opinions about younger girls who have started their period. People are finally accepting that yes, 10/11/12 year old are starting their period and it's not something to hide.

Finally, I doubt you talked to all 1,600 girls and if you did got an honest reponse from every single one. Or even honestly from all the girls you talked to if you didn't talk to all of them. And it goes both ways. If the first couple are saying the haven't started yet, the others are more likely to follow that lead to avoid being the weird ones and visa verca for those who say they did, a certain percentage of girls will lie and say "me too" just to not be left out.

First off.. No one ever taught me or gave me the foggiest notion that I coudln't do things while on my period. I am willing to bet I am a bit older than many of the people on this board.

Second there is no way in hell my camp councilor would have known I was on my period or that I had even started cause I wouldn't have told anyone. It's none of their business.

However.. now that I think of it.. when I filled out the paperwork for DD to go to camp it asks on there if they have started their period and if they know what to do when/if they do.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

First off, I specifically remember being taught (late 90's) in sex ed that girls start their period age 13 or later and that a girl needs to becareful not to do anything that might cause "leaks or showing that she is having her period." For a lot of kids, at school sex ed is all they get.

Second, camps haven't asked if DD had started her period yet and I honestly would _not_ be comfortable answering that question on the camp form. IMO the camp doesn't need to know if she has all ready started her period. I can understand asking if she knows how to handle having/starting her period at camp.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
First off, I specifically remember being taught (late 90's) in sex ed that girls start their period age 13 or later and that a girl needs to becareful not to do anything that might cause "leaks or showing that she is having her period." For a lot of kids, at school sex ed is all they get.

Second, camps haven't asked if DD had started her period yet and I honestly would _not_ be comfortable answering that question on the camp form. IMO the camp doesn't need to know if she has all ready started her period. I can understand asking if she knows how to handle having/starting her period at camp.

Well what you were taught in school was 1. incorrect. and 2. not something that the taught in the 80's in California. I mean Seriously, they need to be careful not to cause leaks or show that she is having her period???? And WHY were you in the class where this was being discussed?? Sure both boys and girls get the basics but being careful not to cause leaks is something that would be discussed AFTER the boys and girls separate.

They separated them when I was in school, they separated them when my 16 year old was in 5th grade, and they separated my 10 year old last year. They always do the "group" basics and the separate "in depth."

As for camp... it's Girl Scout camp. There are only girls there. And I never really thought about if I was comfortable answering it cause so far the answer has been no.


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## FernG (Feb 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Finally, I doubt you talked to all 1,600 girls and if you did got an honest reponse from every single one. Or even honestly from all the girls you talked to if you didn't talk to all of them. And it goes both ways. If the first couple are saying the haven't started yet, the others are more likely to follow that lead to avoid being the weird ones and visa verca for those who say they did, a certain percentage of girls will lie and say "me too" just to not be left out.

I didn't mean to start a huge debate. But I will explain how the system worked at this camp...

The parents do indicated on the health form shown to the cabin counselor and to the unit director indicating if the girl has started her period.

It is very possible that there were girls on their periods during camp that I was not aware of. However, there were about 2 girls out of 1,600 who had a problem during the week they were at camp (e.g., needed sheets washed, needed pads/tampons, started the period for the first time and were scared, leaked on jeans and needed some help washing clothes). Those situations were unusual, and right or wrong, were discussed at meetings with the female counselors (just as we discussed homesick kids, kids with severe allergies and epi pens, etc). We all knew to keep an eye out for those girls - to let them leave activities early, to help them with some privacy after swimming, to help each other hike the laundry out of the cabins and out to the washers discretely so as to not embarrass the camper. This summer, there were many girls every week who had those little situations needing assistance. It's a dramatic change in numbers. Maybe they are just less secretive, but the change is huge! They difference in the trash in the girl's bathhouse is enormous.

Similarly, the curvy campers were few. I still remember the names and faces of the curvy 12-year-old campers from 1996. This year, the 12-year-olds with childish figures, flat chests, and no hips were the campers who stood out.

Fashions at camp haven't changed much - 1 piece swim suits, t shirts, athletic shorts, jeans.


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## FernG (Feb 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
First off, I specifically remember being taught (late 90's) in sex ed that girls start their period age 13 or later and that a girl needs to becareful not to do anything that might cause "leaks or showing that she is having her period." For a lot of kids, at school sex ed is all they get.

That is really shocking to me. I grew up in the rural south, and I never heard such a thing. I was told that it was a good idea to change pads and tampons to prevent leaks. I never heard anything about limiting activities. I never remember any girls sitting out of swim team, cheer leading, cross country, tumbling, or dance. And some of those uniforms would show leaks! There were rumors going around our locker rooms that women who were menstruating had a competitive edge at athletic competitions.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

1. I know it was incorrect, my parents taught me differently but not everyone has those parents. 2. Every sex ed curriculum is different and every teacher is different.

Genders here don't get seperated except for a one day lesson on respectful dating. Since everyone is learning the same lessons, girls and boys are taught in the same class.

Finally, unless you can give me a good reason why the need to know if DD has started her periond it doesn't matter if she has or not, it's none of their business.


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## FernG (Feb 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
1. I know it was incorrect, my parents taught me differently but not everyone has those parents. 2. Every sex ed curriculum is different and every teacher is different.

Genders here don't get seperated except for a one day lesson on respectful dating. Since everyone is learning the same lessons, girls and boys are taught in the same class.

Finally, unless you can give me a good reason why the need to know if DD has started her periond it doesn't matter if she has or not, it's none of their business.

I'm glad that your parents were able to correct the bad sex-ed info your received! It's good that you had a relationship where you could talk to them about that stuff.

I never meant to imply that any parent would "need" to put down that their daughter had started menstruating. I can see why a parent wouldn't want that info down. At the camp I have worked at, the staff were very respectful and kept the info private - between the staff members working with the girls directly. None of the activity counselors knew unless the girl was actively menstruating and had asked for help at which time the info would be brought up at a morning female staff meeting. Knowing ahead of time did help me keep my eyes open. However, it is really unnecessary now b/c the staff assumes that all of the girls are menstruating. I fully support your and your daughter's right to privacy and to keep that personal info private!


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Forgot to mention that some parents have less accepting views of menstruation too. A view they pass on to their kids.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *orangefoot* 
I often go out in just a t shirt and I have to say that I haven't found anyone staring at my nipples.









Ah, but how many 10-14 year olds do you spend time with as equals?

Also, as an adult, you are a fairly private person, preteens are, in their own minds, the center of the universe under scrutiny by every single person in a 4 mile radius.

A young girl who notices her nipples are poking out of her shirt will be convinced that they are as obvious as though they had bright red lights attached. This gets reinforced by TV and movies joking about 'headlights' and such. If another classmate noticed and commented? Ouch.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
1. I know it was incorrect, my parents taught me differently but not everyone has those parents. 2. Every sex ed curriculum is different and every teacher is different.

Genders here don't get seperated except for a one day lesson on respectful dating. Since everyone is learning the same lessons, girls and boys are taught in the same class.

Finally, unless you can give me a good reason why the need to know if DD has started her periond it doesn't matter if she has or not, it's none of their business.

Yes I realize every teacher is different. But we are talking about a span of about 20 years, in three different school, in two different states where they do things the same way.

Maybe they just do things differently in Canada.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
Forgot to mention that some parents have less accepting views of menstruation too. A view they pass on to their kids.

You know. I have never run across this. Honestly. Never ever. I find it extremely odd that parents would have "less accepting views" of something that happens to every girl/woman in the world. The only exception I can think of is someone who has a less accepting view of woman in general... an to be honest.. that has nothing to do with menstruation.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Yes I realize every teacher is different. But we are talking about a span of about 20 years, in three different school, in two different states where they do things the same way.

Maybe they just do things differently in Canada.


I know they are. I am astounded by the number of abstinance only sex ed classes there are in the US. That is the one thing I like about how sex is discussed in our schools. Even the one teacher I had who told the class he felt sex was for pro-creation only taught safer sex.

Quote:

You know. I have never run across this. Honestly. Never ever. I find it extremely odd that parents would have "less accepting views" of something that happens to every girl/woman in the world. The only exception I can think of is someone who has a less accepting view of woman in general... an to be honest.. that has nothing to do with menstruation.
Obviously you haven't met DH's parents. They are accepting of women, but talking about or giving indication that she is having her period is a _big_ no-no for them. They had the same ideas surrounding male puberty. You just didn't talk about it. Ever. What he did learn was that a woman doing anything that poses a risk of anyone finding out she was "in that time" was not decent.

These people _do_ exist unfortunatly. There is nothing we can do about that expect make sure we don't pass those ideas on to our children ourselves, which is one thing that DH has a hard time with. But so far he has done great in teaching DD that nothing her body does naturally is horrible or wrong.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Also I do believe we may have gotten slightly off topic, no?


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
I know they are. I am astounded by the number of abstinance only sex ed classes there are in the US. That is the one thing I like about how sex is discussed in our schools. Even the one teacher I had who told the class he felt sex was for pro-creation only taught safer sex.

The abstinence only crap is a Bush Admin thing. I hope to see it go away as fast as it turned up. They didn't teach that garbage when Daddy Bush or even Reagan were in office, and Defiantly not Clinton.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

I am aware of that too.







But it is still a markedly different sex ed then what we have, no matter how temporary. Unfortunatly there are kids out there who's only sex ed comes from those classes and many of them have been found that have factual errors under the mistaken belief that the end justifies the means.







:


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MusicianDad* 
I am aware of that too.







But it is still a markedly different sex ed then what we have, no matter how temporary. Unfortunatly there are kids out there who's only sex ed comes from those classes and many of them have been found that have factual errors under the mistaken belief that the end justifies the means.







:

Yes I know. I demanded the super change the curriculum when I read the book and they were telling kids that they coudln't get HIV or HPV if they did not have premarital sex or do drugs.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Yes I know. I demanded the super change the curriculum when I read the book and they were telling kids that they coudln't get HIV or HPV if they did not have premarital sex or do drugs.

Yeah, everyone even remotely associated with the school would hear from me if I found out someone was teaching DD that.


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## LauraN (May 18, 2004)

Was in the sixth grade in 1982 and we were shown a film(girls and boy together) in which it was suggested that girls should shower more oftenduring menstruation. There was some explanation about sweat glands being more active during that time, but all it accomplished was to leave me and my fiends with the uneasy feeling that we were dirty during that time. My parents had very hethy attitudes about sex and sex Ed, but that particular feeling of dirtyness was not something I ever thought to ask them about. At the same time, having your period was considered a valid reason to be excused from swimming (which was one of our phys Ed units).

But to get back on topic, I've read that what training bras do is train a girl's developing breasts to need bras. That is, by providing unneeded support, they allow muscles to atrophy that should be doing the job of holding up our breasts. I've read that it's much healthier for developing breasts, their muscles andtissue, to be unrestrained as they grow.

So I think that a girl who feels self-conscious without a bra or wants one for purposes of style or modesty should be encouraged to wear ones that offer the least actual "support" and allow for the most freedom of movemeb
nt. It was that article that caused me to change to camis only and despite being a 40 D I feel great and not at all immodest.


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## sewchris2642 (Feb 28, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN* 
Dd would also balk significantly at the idea of lace, padded, or push-up bras. I imagine that she'll be wanting the same thing she wants in her underwear: solid neutral colors with nothing on it. She's a navy and white, classic styles type of kid. I like the idea of push-up bras a lot less than frogs on bras for young girls.


What if the "girl" in question was 28 years old? Not al small cup size bras are for the pre-teen set. Joy was wearing 36B/C with an underwire in high school while Erica was still trying to find -A cup bras that didn't look like a training bra at age 28.


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## ChristaN (Feb 14, 2003)

As I said in my post that you quoted, I like the idea of push-up bras for *young girls* less than the idea of cartoon character bras for young girls. Women with smaller breasts should have all the same options that the rest of us have. I would just like to see the kids/juniors depts carrying plain looking bras rather than (or at least in addition to) bras that make them choose btwn looking younger or older than they might want to.


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## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ChristaN* 
As I said in my post that you quoted, I like the idea of push-up bras for *young girls* less than the idea of cartoon character bras for young girls. Women with smaller breasts should have all the same options that the rest of us have. I would just like to see the kids/juniors depts carrying plain looking bras rather than (or at least in addition to) bras that make them choose btwn looking younger or older than they might want to.

Ours does. There are plenty of plain colors and stripes among the hearts, skulls, and other "stylish" things. I don't think I have seen a one with animals or cartoon figures. But I haven't looked this year since DD moved on.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sewchris2642* 
What if the "girl" in question was 28 years old? Not al small cup size bras are for the pre-teen set. Joy was wearing 36B/C with an underwire in high school while Erica was still trying to find -A cup bras that didn't look like a training bra at age 28.

Tell me about it. I have to shop for bras online because a 32a is almost impossible to get around here, and the ones that are available are very much geared to young teens.


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## candipooh (Jun 22, 2004)

My 10 year old is developing pretty fast. But the problem is.....She has SPD (sensory processing disorder) Being hypersensitive to clothing is a big one for her. It is hard for her to deal with wearing a very baggie T-shirt let alone a bra. I am not sure what is going to happen when she gets even bigger breasts.


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
Tell me about it. I have to shop for bras online because a 32a is almost impossible to get around here, and the ones that are available are very much geared to young teens.

Ha. I was bra-shopping this weekend (usually I don't wear them, but I need to keep a few around and every single one I owned was 10+ years old and falling apart) and the Victoria Secret by my house had just PILES of 32As.

34As, on the other hand . . . I finally came home and ordered them online.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cschick* 
Ha. I was bra-shopping this weekend (usually I don't wear them, but I need to keep a few around and every single one I owned was 10+ years old and falling apart) and the Victoria Secret by my house had just PILES of 32As.

34As, on the other hand . . . I finally came home and ordered them online.

I hate VS bras though - they never fit me right, and besides for me, the function of a bra and panties is to be invisible but make my clothes look better on me. So I am the flesh colored seamless cup tagless bra and flesh colored thong type, not really the VS tpe


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## cschick (Aug 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *choli* 
I hate VS bras though - they never fit me right, and besides for me, the function of a bra and panties is to be invisible but make my clothes look better on me. So I am the flesh colored seamless cup tagless bra and flesh colored thong type, not really the VS tpe









VS bras are actually the only ones I've ever found that do fit me right--As from most other makers wrinkle in odd ways even when they have seamless cups, and finding a AA that looks "adult" (see rest of discussion) is just about impossible.

VS are the only ones I'll wear with an underwire, because they are they only bras I've ever found in which the underwire on an A cup is actually somewhat comfortable.


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