# If your child can buckle and unbuckle themsevles



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

from their 5 point harness.. is there any reason to keep them in it rather than a booster seat?

The main reason I bought a bigger 5point harness was because she outgrew her carseat by height and weight at 3. Now she is 4.. nearly 5 (although I think we might have a few more months in the old one now.) and I am wondering if I need to buy a bigger 5point harness or if a booster is OK. The main reason was I was afraid she would unbuckle herself... but she can do that anyway.


----------



## LotusBirthMama (Jun 25, 2005)

My 5 yo DD can buckle and unbuckle from her Nautilus but she still has a while before she outgrows the harness portion. As soon as she hits that limit she will go to the high back booster.


----------



## Jes'sBeth (Aug 30, 2004)

of course. It's safer to be in a harness than a booster.

it doesnt' really matter if you do up my seat belt or I do up my seat belt, the seat belt is still safer to have done up than not. Same with a harness, you don't lose the safety of it just because your child can do it up.

I'd just keep your child in the harness as long as you can and then move to a high back booster.


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jes'sBeth* 
of course. It's safer to be in a harness than a booster.

it doesnt' really matter if you do up my seat belt or I do up my seat belt, the seat belt is still safer to have done up than not. Same with a harness, you don't lose the safety of it just because your child can do it up.

I'd just keep your child in the harness as long as you can and then move to a high back booster.

I wasn't' talking about buckling it. I was talking about UN BUCKLING it.

I didn't want her in a booster seat because she could get out of it. But now she can get out of the harness too so that point is moot. I am not going to move her out of the seat just because she can unbuckle herself. My question was.. since she CAN unbuckle herself... what is the point of spending $300 on a seat that can harness until 65lbs rather than 50 when she outgrows the seat by height.


----------



## Smalls181 (May 12, 2006)

Or you could spend $150 on the Nautilus that will harness to 65lbs and then converts to a booster (high back and low back) to 100lbs. She is far safer in the harness, and if she otherwise a developmentally typical child, could probably grasp the concept of why it is important to remain buckled in the car. She may not, however, have the impulse control to sit up straight in a booster seat all the time, and that is very important. Adult seat belts only work if the child is able to remain upright for the entire trip. Does that make sense?

So in other words, if the Nautilus is within your budget, I highly recommend it. You will get your moneys worth, especially since you have younger children.


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Smalls181* 
Or you could spend $150 on the Nautilus that will harness to 65lbs and then converts to a booster (high back and low back) to 100lbs. She is far safer in the harness, and if she otherwise a developmentally typical child, could probably grasp the concept of why it is important to remain buckled in the car. She may not, however, have the impulse control to sit up straight in a booster seat all the time, and that is very important. Adult seat belts only work if the child is able to remain upright for the entire trip. Does that make sense?

So in other words, if the Nautilus is within your budget, I highly recommend it. You will get your moneys worth, especially since you have younger children.

I just spent $160 last year on the Triumph Advanced. (
which was the biggest harness I could afford at THAT time.) I cannot go out spending $150 every year becuase they came out with something better.


----------



## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

She's old enough to know not to unbuckle while the car is in motion. When you've stopped, she's more than welcome to undo herself, but she is far safer in a harness, even if she can get herself out at the end of the trip.


----------



## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I just spent $160 last year on the Triumph Advanced. (
which was the biggest harness I could afford at THAT time.) I cannot go out spending $150 every year becuase they came out with something better.

So... you already have a booster?

The point to suggesting the Nautilus is that it converts to a booster, so even after she outgrows the harness, she hasn't outgrown the seat. It's hard to imagine she'd ever need another seat (due to growth, anyway; if the seat gets in an accident, or is damaged, well yeah).


----------



## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
I just spent $160 last year on the Triumph Advanced. (
which was the biggest harness I could afford at THAT time.) I cannot go out spending $150 every year becuase they came out with something better.

I understand (really, i am the president of the "my child grows out of her carseat as soon as i buy it" club)
that really sucks, especially since the nauti came out last year too.....you must have beought the TA like..RIGHT before the nauti came out.








However...you need to buy a booster anyway, right? Which means you'd be spending $100 or more to get a good one anyway...and on sale the nauti is $140ish, so you arent really spending $150 more, you are spending $40 more than you will have to anyway.....it will harness usually at least a year beyond the triumph adv, and then converts to a highback, and then backless booster. so it really is not only relatively cheap, but an excellent value for what you will get out of it.

Do you have a child to hand down the TA to? If not......as a tech, i never want to recommend buying or selling a used carseat, but if it is only 1 year old, never in a crash or misused, and you still have all the parts and manual...craigslist it and I bet you recoup at least half what you paid(although you should be aware the selling price of it is now $130 many places, so keep that in mind when pricing it) If you get $80 out of it, then it is only $60 more to get a nauti...and you would pay at least $60 for a booster anyway, you know?


----------



## elmh23 (Jul 1, 2004)

Has she even outgrown the TA though? If not, then I say the OP should leave her in that seat (one which a lot of folks here recommend btw) until she does. It seemed like the concern to me was that she could undo the buckles. That's it. Not that she has outgrown it only after a year of use.

Am I reading the OP right or should I just go to bed?


----------



## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

5pt harnesses are MUCH safer. We should ALL be in them









-Angela


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
So... you already have a booster?

The TA is not a booster. It is a 5pt that goes up to 50lbs.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99* 
However...you need to buy a booster anyway, right? Which means you'd be spending $100 or more to get a good one anyway...and on sale the nauti is $140ish, so you arent really spending $150 more, you are spending $40 more than you will have to anyway...

Do you have a child to hand down the TA to?

I bought an EB harness/booster when she was 2.5 just before DS was born so he would have the Original Triumph. The harness however only went up to 40lbs, then it is a booster to 100. I _thought_ I was getting her a seat to last forever. However (dad is 6'6") DD is much taller than her sisters and outgrew the 40lbs by 3.5. She was NOT ready for the booster however.. but the seat said not to use the harness after 40lbs. So I researched.. couldn't afford the Regent and got the TA. I _thought_ this one would last her until at least 5. It still might. She is 46lbs and her head is over the top, however her ears are not (which is what I was told on another thread I started.) So I might be able to make it to 5.

I still have the EB seat ... my mom uses it...so I wouldn't have to buy another booster.


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alegna* 
5pt harnesses are MUCH safer. We should ALL be in them









-Angela

My chiro actually told me that after DD2 (who was 2) and I were rear ended by a semi. I had whiplash and she was fine.


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
her head is over the top, however her ears are not (which is what I was told on another thread I started.)

Where are her shoulders in relation to the top slots?

A 5 pt harness is always safer, but at 5 I would be ok with a booster provided she sits properly every time.


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Well here is the deal with those stupid straps. They slide up and down. They need to be all the way up for her. But they are always sliding back down. She likes to get in and buckle herself but if I don't check first those straps could be way down sometimes. I wish they would stay locked in one position.


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
Well here is the deal with those stupid straps. They slide up and down. They need to be all the way up for her. But they are always sliding back down. She likes to get in and buckle herself but if I don't check first those straps could be way down sometimes. I wish they would stay locked in one position.

If her shoulders are above the top strap setting, she has outgrown it.


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
If her shoulders are above the top strap setting, she has outgrown it.

No they are right at it. AS long as it doesn't slide down.


----------



## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
The TA is not a booster. It is a 5pt that goes up to 50lbs.

I bought an EB harness/booster when she was 2.5 just before DS was born so he would have the Original Triumph.

Ok, so you already have a booster, which is why you feel the Nautilus is not necessarily a good deal.

However... I believe the Nautilus is a better booster than the one you have. I've heard it gives the protection of a high back for longer, for one thing.

What do you mean about the straps "slipping down?" Off of her shoulders? Or the slots slipping (not sure if the EFTA has an adjustable headrest)?

If the straps are slipping off the tops of her shoulders, either the harness is too loose, or the slots are in fact below her shoulders. Have you done a pinch test to check that the straps are tight enough?


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

The booster seat I have is a high backed booster as well.

And the TA does not have slots. The straps slide up and down in a track for easier adjustment. So you just slide it to where you need the straps. However they don't STAY where you put them and are always sliding back down in the track.

They stay put on her shoulders.

The main reason I am "balking" at buying the nautilus is because parents should not expected to run out and buy the next best greatest seat each time they come out with one. We would all be broke!

The other booster I have is a high backed booster that goes to 100 lbs. The only reason I had to buy the TA is because the booster would only allow you to use the straps til 40 lbs and at 3 I did not feel she was ready to be using the seat belt.

I checked again when I put DD in the seat this morning. The straps are right at her shoulders. So I think we might grow out of it before 50 lbs.. unless she does her growing in her legs rather than her torso like usual.


----------



## hottmama (Dec 27, 2004)

Yes, a 5-pt. harness is much safer. My son will be 6 in January, is 46" and ~50 lbs. and rides in a Britax Husky and will for a few years still. He's been able to buckle and unbuckle his carseat since 3, but he understands the importance of leaving it buckled in a moving vehicle. He has the maturity to sit straight in a booster, so we use one for carpooling, but I prefer to have him in a harness.


----------



## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
The booster seat I have is a high backed booster as well.

High-backed boosters have height restrictions. The Nautilus is higher than most other combos out there.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
And the TA does not have slots. The straps slide up and down in a track for easier adjustment. So you just slide it to where you need the straps. However they don't STAY where you put them and are always sliding back down in the track.

I'm not personally familiar with the EFTA, but no carseat should slide out of adjustment like that. Either it's broken/defective, or it's not set up right. :-/

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
The main reason I am "balking" at buying the nautilus is because parents should not expected to run out and buy the next best greatest seat each time they come out with one. We would all be broke!

This is why so many folks suggest buying the higher-end seats. Yes, it may cost twice as much as another seat that fits your child *right now*... but the extra time they have in the carseat reduces the need to replace seats as the child grows.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
The other booster I have is a high backed booster that goes to 100 lbs. The only reason I had to buy the TA is because the booster would only allow you to use the straps til 40 lbs and at 3 I did not feel she was ready to be using the seat belt.

I understand your frustration right now that your daughter has almost outgrown this seat you *just* bought... but, when you bought it, there were a lot of seats that had higher limits available. Yes, they cost more, but not more than buying several different cheaper seats.

No one's saying "Well, you have to get a Nautilus now, because that's the new best thing!" They're saying, "Your daughter is young to be safe in a booster. If you want to keep her harnessed longer, this seat will do it at a fairly reasonable price." A Regent or Safeguard will keep her harnessed *even longer*, but would cost twice as much and up. Since money is a concern for you, no one's suggesting that. But... yes, your daughter is safer in a harness, and you can keep her harnessed with a Graco Nautilus for around $150 (bought one on Amazon for $142.88 last week).


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
I understand your frustration right now that your daughter has almost outgrown this seat you *just* bought... *but, when you bought it, there were a lot of seats that had higher limits available.* Yes, they cost more, but not more than buying several different cheaper seats.

No one's saying "Well, you have to get a Nautilus now, because that's the new best thing!" They're saying, "Your daughter is young to be safe in a booster. If you want to keep her harnessed longer, this seat will do it at a fairly reasonable price." A Regent or Safeguard will keep her harnessed *even longer*, but would cost twice as much and up. Since money is a concern for you, no one's suggesting that. But... yes, your daughter is safer in a harness, and you can keep her harnessed with a Graco Nautilus for around $150 (bought one on Amazon for $142.88 last week).

No there weren't. I asked here. When I bought her seat there was the TA and the Regant. The Regant I couldn't afford. While in your opinion it might have saved money in the long run, I STILL couldn't afford it. Last year was a very bad year and we were struggling just to get food on the table.

Oh wait.. there was one other seat.. but it had poor reviews... the alpha omega or something like that.


----------



## BeckC (Nov 27, 2006)

aniT - I can picture what you're saying about the straps sliding down on the Triumph Advance. (For the PP who isn't familiar with the seat, it's an infinite adjust harness and you just grab the straps and slide them up and down.) You said that her shoulders at right at the top slots of the harness if it doesn't slide down so it sounds to me like she's about to outgrow it.

I understand your frustration with facing the possibility of buying *another* harnessed seat when you *just* bought one that you figured would be the last harness you needed. It does seem sometimes like it's impossible to keep up with the latest car seat technology - as soon as you get the best they come out with something better.

You will have to buy another carseat soon whether it's the Nautilus or a dedicated booster. The Nautilus should keep your daughter harnessed for a while longer and then you absolutely do not have to buy another seat ever. It will turn into a good booster, and then a backless.

A possible fix for your current problem of your daughter undoing the 5 pt harness is to put some velcro, prickly side up, on the release button. It might be enough to discourage her from undoing the harness.

And good luck. This carseat stuff can be so frustrating at times.


----------



## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

In general, a child who will unbuckle herself or himself is not developmentally ready for a belt-positioning booster, regardless of age or size.


----------



## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
No there weren't. I asked here.

And I'll swear I remember you asking here... but all I see is a post from September where you mentioned that you'd already bought it.

Also, I was under the impression that the problem was the weight, not the height. There are a LOT of carseats that go to more than 50 lbs. harnessed, but your DD is tall, which means you also need something with high strap slots. That *does* limit your options.


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeckC* 
You will have to buy another carseat soon whether it's the Nautilus or a dedicated booster. The Nautilus should keep your daughter harnessed for a while longer and then you absolutely do not have to buy another seat ever. It will turn into a good booster, and then a backless.

And good luck. This carseat stuff can be so frustrating at times.

Thats the thing. I have an EB high back booster seat that was supposed to last her until 100lbs. She out grew the straps at 40lbs and 3 years old so I bought the TA. But I can still use the EB as a booster and I don't have to buy another seat if I use that one.

My main question here is.. I thought one of the benefits of the 5pnt is that she couldn't get out of it, but she can.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
In general, a child who will unbuckle herself or himself is not developmentally ready for a belt-positioning booster, regardless of age or size.

She doesn't do this when the car is moving. Only when we get home.


----------



## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

5 points of restraint (5-point harness) are always safer than 3 points (vehicle seat belt), full stop. However, a belt-positioning booster can be an appropriate choice for a 5-year-old who weighs over 40 pounds and who can be trusted to sit properly and not unbuckle. This is not (IMO/IME) one of those situations where there is clearly a RIGHT answer and a WRONG answer.


----------



## BeckC (Nov 27, 2006)

What kind is the EB booster that you have? Is it the kind that can rear face, then forward face, and then turns into a booster?


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
And I'll swear I remember you asking here... but all I see is a post from September where you mentioned that you'd already bought it.

Also, I was under the impression that the problem was the weight, not the height. There are a LOT of carseats that go to more than 50 lbs. harnessed, but your DD is tall, which means you also need something with high strap slots. That *does* limit your options.

yea.. height is always a problem. I think I stated earlier that DH is 6'6". At 4 DD is wearing a 6 in dresses and shirts but a 5 in pants. Like DH she has a long torso.

She outgrew the other car seat by weight first although I think she was on the stop setting of the straps about to max that out.

I do remember when I asked people talking about the Alpha Omega but it didn't get good reviews. So I scratched that one off. That left the Regent and the TA. And as I said the Reagent was out of our price rant. The Nautilus I had never heard of until the other day. Trust me I would have remembered that one as DH worked their until the end of July this year.







(Nautilus that is.)

I didn't expect DD to hit 50 lbs before 5.. and she probably wont. When I put her in the seat at the store there was plenty of room with the straps.. but my goodness this child has grown over the summer. She looks like a 1st grader to me rather than a preschooler. Now if she would just stop growing in the torso and let her legs catch up we will be fine. But I don't see that happening. At 6'6" DH has a 34" inseam.


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *BeckC* 
What kind is the EB booster that you have? Is it the kind that can rear face, then forward face, and then turns into a booster?

No.. its forward facing only. It's called the EB high backed booster.

This is it.

http://www.amazon.com/Eddie-Bauer-Hi...0824826&sr=8-3


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

At that age, provided she sits properly, I'd get her a booster with good SIP. If you aren't comfortable with her in a booster, get a Nautilus. I understand your frustration--we bought a Radian because DD is so tall, then later a Regent and that didn't work so we bought a Nautilus. It's a lot of seats and a lot of money.


----------



## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

Okay, so you already have a booster...... So..if she is nearly 5 and 50 pounds, and will sit correctly in the seat and not unbuckle herself WHILE the car is moving, there is no reason that her being in a booster isn't an acceptable choice. 5/50 is a lot longer than most kids are harnessed, and all the available data seems to agree that at that weight and age, A booster is not significantly worse than a harnessed seat, provided it is used correctly. You might want to consider "locking" her seatbelt, if your vehicle does that, to ensure she stays in place.


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99* 
Okay, so you already have a booster...... So..if she is nearly 5 and 50 pounds, and will sit correctly in the seat and not unbuckle herself WHILE the car is moving, there is no reason that her being in a booster isn't an acceptable choice. 5/50 is a lot longer than most kids are harnessed, and all the available data seems to agree that at that weight and age, A booster is not significantly worse than a harnessed seat, provided it is used correctly. You might want to consider "locking" her seatbelt, if your vehicle does that, to ensure she stays in place.

She will be 5 in four months and she is 46 lbs. I would assume my car doesn't lock the seat belt as I have never heard of such a thing.


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
She will be 5 in four months and she is 46 lbs. I would assume my car doesn't lock the seat belt as I have never heard of such a thing.









If your car is newer than 1996 the seatbelt does lock, either at the latchplate or at the retractor. How do you have her current seat secured?


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
If your car is newer than 1996 the seatbelt does lock, either at the latchplate or at the retractor. How do you have her current seat secured?

LATCH. I thought she meant it locked so that she couldn't unbuckle it.









I have no idea how to keep it locked. It locks when you jerk it.. but you just have to let it back some and it unlocks.


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

If you pull the seatbelt all the way out slowly until you reach the end, then feed it back in a little, you should hear clicking and that means the belt is locked. You won't be able to pull it out further without letting it retract all the way in.


----------



## Ironica (Sep 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
LATCH.

Most car seats have an upper limit on LATCH connection around 48 lbs. child weight, and some car manufacturers have lower limits than that (Honda is 40 lbs. for example). Double-check the manual; you may need to switch to a seat belt install.

The manual will tell you about the locking seat belt retractor.


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ironica* 
Most car seats have an upper limit on LATCH connection around 48 lbs. child weight, and some car manufacturers have lower limits than that (Honda is 40 lbs. for example). Double-check the manual; you may need to switch to a seat belt install.

The manual will tell you about the locking seat belt retractor.

Well crap.


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

My owners manual doesn't say anything about weight limits at all.

2002 Ford Windstar.


----------



## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aniT* 
My owners manual doesn't say anything about weight limits at all.

2002 Ford Windstar.

Ford has a 48-pound limit on the lower anchors.


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chickabiddy* 
Ford has a 48-pound limit on the lower anchors.

Thanks. I will just keep watching her weight. We have 2lbs. I am sure a car seat made to go to 50lbs would at least have a limit of 48/50lbs.


----------



## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

By the way, a 2002 Ford Windstar has locking latchplates. When you do switch to a seatbelt install, all you have to do is buckle the belt and tighten--that's it, the belt will be locked at the latchplate (the part that clicks into the buckle). Super easy


----------



## aniT (Jun 16, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *an_aurora* 
By the way, a 2002 Ford Windstar has locking latchplates. When you do switch to a seatbelt install, all you have to do is buckle the belt and tighten--that's it, the belt will be locked at the latchplate (the part that clicks into the buckle). Super easy









Cool. Thanks. I have never used those seat belts back there. There has always been a car seat in the middle bench.


----------

