# Co-ed sleepovers?



## krisnic (Dec 16, 2004)

Our son is 14 years 9 months. He is friends with this girl (just friends for now, but after the conversation this morning, that could change). He wants her to spend the night. I said no. It would have been him in his room, her in the living room - different floors with our room right next to his. However, he did have a point that I am trying to figure out how to approach. I trust him a lot, we have a very good relationship and he's very open and honest. I told him last week that I trust him x 1000 (in our house, we have a weird thing where the higher the multiplied number, the more we feel that way). Anyway, I told him that I trust him x 1000 and I don't want him doing anything to betray that trust. So he brings up a valid point, I trust him that much, but don't trust the sleepover. I got out of it this time for a different reason, but I have to figure out how to address this. I know that if I said she could spend the night, but bedtime was at 1:00 and they were not going to be together while we were sleeping, he would be okay with that. I just don't like the idea of a co-ed sleepover.

On top of all this, he's not our actual son. We have POA over him. He's a really good child and we adore him, but we are not the ones that raised him - so everything that we are going through with him is new territory for us. I just want to not break our very trusting relationship. Any advice from more experienced parents?


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

If you're not comfortable with it, I think that it's ok to say no. I don't think that setting a boundary will break your trusting relationship.

What is it you're uncomfortable with? Do you know the girl and her parents?


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## krisnic (Dec 16, 2004)

I have met the girl and her grandparents, who she is with a lot. He would absolutely not spend the night at a girl's house. I can't trust that they would do things the same way that I would.

Uncomfortable about? As I told him: "We don't need any babies in this family." lol.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

No way...what is the possible benefit?


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## Aaronridge (Nov 7, 2010)

I don't have any experience with this as my oldest is only 12, so my opinion may not carry much weight for you. I certainly would not allow it. They can spend time together until midnight (or whatever) and then I would drive her home. Although I'm not sure why they would even need to do that. I would be more comfortable with it if they were spending time in a group with other teens.

As far as trust goes, this is your house and you make the rules. period.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

No way would I allow it. If they are really going to "sleep" when it's time to sleep, then she can be taken home at bedtime and brought back early in the morning for breakfast. They will not have missed anything if the true intention is a platonic sleepover.

ETA: My dd is only ~9, so this is not coming from an experienced parent, but a former teen. I had friends that I spent the night with that had brothers. Even when you don't have the least romantic thought about a member of the opposite sex, the temptation is sometimes just the opportunity itself. I never did anything terribly bad, but had a lot of makeout sessions with older brothers just to learn how to kiss.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *velochic* 
I had friends that I spent the night with that had brothers. Even when you don't have the least romantic thought about a member of the opposite sex, the temptation is sometimes just the opportunity itself. I never did anything terribly bad, but had a lot of makeout sessions with older brothers just to learn how to kiss.


I think this is important....


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## whatsnextmom (Apr 2, 2010)

It's not just about trusting him, it's protecting the girls reputation. I know they are buddies but if it gets out that she spent the night at a boys house, no matter how innocent it really is, people will talk. It's old-fashioned, I know but our society still has it's sexist moments. *She'll* be painted in the negative, not him. If he's her friend, he's not going to want that for her. It's as good a time as any to introduce him to chivalry.

My DD's best and closest friends have always been boys but she's never asked for a sleepover with them and it's not something we would allow. It's not that we don't trust her. It's not even that we don't trust the boys (she has fanatstic taste in friends.) We just don't feel she needs to protect her reputation from others who would love to speculate. Rumours are nasty and they hurt no matter how strong you are. Frankly, a sleep-over just isn't worth it. Let the girl stay late. Let her come back for breakfast and spend the day with the family. Draw the line at a sleep-over.


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## maeby (Nov 4, 2007)

the most fun i ever had as a 14 year old was a coed sleepover, there were 5 us, two boys and three girls. seriously nothing happened. girls in one room boys in the other. we did it 2 or maybe even 3 times.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

I believe that there is a thread here somewhere about co-ed sleepovers. It seemed many folks didn't have a problem with the experience and talked a lot about parties where everyone sort of crashed together. I wouldn't want this at 14 though. I think it's too much.


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## whatsnextmom (Apr 2, 2010)

Quote:

the most fun i ever had as a 14 year old was a coed sleepover, there were 5 us, two boys and three girls. seriously nothing happened. girls in one room boys in the other. we did it 2 or maybe even 3 times.
A group co-ed sleepover is different than one girl spending the night at one boys house though. My DD has not done one but we might allow a group sleepover in certain circumstances.... like with her theatre friends and adult supervision we trusted. We have a close family friend who has no real family in town. When mom and dad have to go away for something the girls stay with us even though the 10-year-olds are friends (my DS their DD.) It's different when big sister is staying too and they are technically staying "with" my DD. I wouldn't just have the 10-year-old girl over though.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

As the mother of girl of the same age...no, I would not allow it. Not here and not at his house either.

Quote:

Uncomfortable about? As I told him: "We don't need any babies in this family." lol
IMHO, this clearly indicates that you do NOT trust the two of them, despite your words to the contrary. You do not trust that they will not engage in sexual activity.

But you know what, I think that's ok. There are some situations protection is more important than trust. This is one of them. I had my teen, AS a teen. Teens can't even always trust THEMSELVES, so I think it's perfectly ok for the parents to not trust them on occasion. You can trust their intentions without trusting the ability to stick to them.

Quote:

It's not just about trusting him, it's protecting the girls reputation. I know they are buddies but if it gets out that she spent the night at a boys house, no matter how innocent it really is, people will talk. It's old-fashioned, I know but our society still has it's sexist moments. She'll be painted in the negative, not him
While I agree that people will talk, the talk, at least among the other teens, is most likely I think to just be that they had sex. I don't think either will be painted in a negative light in the least. It was my experience that for the most part, losing your virginity, whether you are male OR female, is considered cool, not negative.


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## whatsnextmom (Apr 2, 2010)

Quote:

While I agree that people will talk, the talk, at least among the other teens, is most likely I think to just be that they had sex. I don't think either will be painted in a negative light in the least. It was my experience that for the most part, losing your virginity, whether you are male OR female, is considered cool, not negative.
We'll have to disagree. Not only did I face a similar situation when I was a teen (spent the night at a girlfriend's and her brother a year older made up some stories... life was HELL for me for many months while he was branded a hero) but we know a couple girls currently who've had issues. When rumours started that they were sexually active, other boys started becoming forward with them verbally and physically harrassing them in the halls (grabbing, rubbing up against, ect.) I suppose you could say they were "cool" and that's why they started getting this extra attention but it was totally unwelcome. Why invite this sort of gossip by providing facts that make it plausible?


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## justKate (Jun 10, 2008)

If there were a _reason_ for it, like she was going on a camping trip with your family early early the next day, or her parents are out of the country on an emergency, or whatever, then that would be one thing. But just for fun? Volunteer to drive her home at whatever time.

I don't think it matters whether he's technically your kid or not. It's your house. You're parenting him. Go with your gut.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

I forgot to mention... my niece had platonic sleepovers when she was about that age (15 actually) with "guy" friends. I told my sister what foolishness it was, but she didn't listen because she "100% trusted" her dd. That dd ended up pregnant a few months later and is now, 10 years later, single, with 3 out-of-wedlock accidental kids all before 18 (one set of twins), on welfare and still living at home. If parents think it's all above board, I have a bridge for sale...

(Yes, I'll admit that my personal experiences are heavily swaying my thoughts on this... however, all we have to go on are our pasts.)


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## spring978 (Aug 6, 2007)

Even the most trust worthy wonderful kids give in to hormones.

I cant imagine what they cant do during normal waking hours that they would need a sleep over.

If she had been a life long childhood friend visiting from out of town it would be one thing.

The Mom of 3 teens 2 boys and a girl I would say NO


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Nope, no way. You have to go away to college to do that.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

If there were an emergancy and she needed a place to stay -- her parents were in a car crash or something -- then of course it would be fine.

But just for fun? no.

I'd explain it to him this way...
When a man (which he is biologically at this point) asks a woman to spend the night, it's usually about sex. They aren't 8 years old. It just isn't appropriate. To keep things clear with women, it's really best to NOT ask them to spend the night unless and until he is in a romantic relationship and ready for sex, and living someplace besides your house.

I'd approach it with him about being clear with women, who are friends or more than friends, about what is going on between them. Things can get blurred very easily, and some women get their feelings hurt easily. Avoiding asking women to spend the night steers clear of a whole bunch of potential problems for him.


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## littlest birds (Jul 18, 2004)

I have--very cautiously--because the friends lived in another state.

I have also allowed my dd to sleep at her boyfriend's mom's house under her supervision. He was there also. They live an hour away which to us is a very long trip normally made once a couple months at most.

I did not allow her to share a tent with him at a music festivals with both families also in attendance.

We have also had a different family host the friend when I wasn't comfortable with out of state friends sleeping over.

My dd is part of a regional Quaker youth group that has weekend retreats (supervised coed sleepovers!) once per month and has made strong friendships there. She has many boy friends and many girl friends and practice with healthy relationships in a coed environment for the past four years in this group.

My dd is now 16yo. I don't want my fear of sex to be the main shaping force in my dd's social life. We are in communication about it. I also give her some privacy. Sex is not forbidden even though my personal preference is that she wait and I do not encourage it. Sneaking is more "forbidden" than sex is AFAIC and ultimately parents don't usually have the option of having neither one happen. I really don't control dd's choices in many areas and I do prefer that she be making those choices in friendly supervised environments (close to me!) rather than having to escape controlling adults to have any ability to take risks and make independent choices.

Ultimately, it's not my body--it's hers--I've taught her what I can and continue to share what I know and she's the one who gets to make the decisions about sex. But two years ago was a totally different reality. She has experienced a lot since then and I've been a witness to what she's been through and that guides me.


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## krisnic (Dec 16, 2004)

Thanks for all the feedback! I feel better about telling him no now. I like the part about trusting his intentions but not the hormones. I think that will be a good approach.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

I had a couple of other thoughts. On the explaining why it is that you trust him and yet still are saying no, I'd tell him that you trust if there was a real reason for her to spend the night, you trust that he would behave well. Yet we are all best off when we set ourselves up to do what we consider to be the right thing. I think there is a real life lesson in here for him that applies to lots of other situations. Sometimes people end up doing things that they didn't intend to because they put themselves in a situation and allowed things to get out of control. It's ego. It's believing that we are sooooo good, that we need not be careful.

The truth is that we are all capable of doing things we consider undesirable.

The other thing that I would talk to him about is that girls sometimes come onto boys, and that it's OK to say no and to put a stop to things. I think that's a very hard concept for many young men. There is soooo much cultural pressure on boys that sexual experience is desirable, plus it feels impolite to tell a girl no. It sounds like the conversation you guys had was about whether or not HE would behave. I think it's time to talk about the fact that girls are curious too.

If he and his friend don't already, I'd encourage some nice long evenings where they can hang out and watch movies or play games until midnight. But then I'd drive the girl home!


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## krisnic (Dec 16, 2004)

Good post Linda. I really like the way you worded everything. And yes, we had the conversation about girl's being curious as well. He sees my point now and has dropped it for the time being. I think the part about not putting ourselves in situations that could go bad is a good aspect. We have talked about parties. I won't let him go because I don't want him to be in a bad situation. He understands that. So I think he would understand this as well. Thanks for your help!


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

No, I wouldn't allow it.

I'm an atheist, but to borrow a phrase from my Catholic upbringing, it's a "near occasion of sin."









There's no real need for her to sleep over, and to my way of thinking, it's going out of your way to look for trouble.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

I 'm not that far away from teenager so I need to chime in here. Honestly if they're going to do anything they're going to do it whether it's at a sleepover, a date, parking, etc. And before anyone says it's easier during a sleepover, it's not. It's a lot easier to make out in while parking in some dark parking lot where you don't have to worry about getting caught by your parents than it is when you're in separate rooms, sneaking into one room, trying not to make noise and keep an ear out for parents. When I had sleepovers with my boyfriend in high school we actually slept (and his mom let us sleep in the same room). I just liked staying there b/c I didn't have to worry about driving home late, keeping up my parents (they wouldn't sleep unless I was home b/c they worried about me driving at night) and it was just nice to be that close to someone.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

14 year olds can't go anywhere in a car without an adult.

I think it partly about setting appropriate boundaries and being clear.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> 14 year olds can't go anywhere in a car without an adult.
> 
> I think it partly about setting appropriate boundaries and being clear.


So replace car with empty movie theatre. I know many many people who used movie theatres instead of parking.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> Quote:
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My kiddo isn't going to be in a dark movie theater by herself with a boyfriend at 14, either, so your argument doesn't work with me. I'm sure it's cultural, as dh is from the Middle East, but we'll allow dd to go out in groups for a couple of years and when she's 17 or 18, she can start having one-on-one dates. I know that makes us seem very old-fashioned, but we WILL respect the cultural beliefs of dh's family as much as we can within the framework of raising a daughter in America. Where he is from, a girl is never even alone with a man until they are engaged. Obviously, that's too extreme for the US, but I don't believe for ONE MINUTE that kids won't totally take advantage of a sleepover. Saying that they'd rather make out in a semi-public place like a parking lot or movie theater and not try anything on a sleepover is not just absurd, it's naïve.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> My kiddo isn't going to be in a dark movie theater by herself with a boyfriend at 14, either, so your argument doesn't work with me.


same here, and I have a 14 year old DD!

My kids are well supervised. We will deal with dating when it comes up, which hasn't happened. I don't understand making it easy for kids who aren't even old enough to date to have sex. That makes absolutely NO sense to me.

The parents I see doing a good job with kids this age with boyfriend/girlfriend situations do things like drive them to the skate rink and then stay in the snack bar and read a book. They let the kids have fun together in a safe situation. They stay in the back ground, but the kids are still supervised.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Yup, that's us--reading a book in the dark, providing a silent support, but definitely a presence. We don't have dating here-too young. But we do have group get togethers,.


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## Mom2Brendan (Nov 11, 2010)

I would prefer co-ed sleep overs when kids are younger . My son is only 6 and he has asked many times if his friend whose a girl to spend the night . I wouldn't have the problem with it because you don't have to worry about intimate risk in that group age .

But many parents are just uneasy of a 'too early sleep over especially with the opposite sex .

Teens are more at risk of intimate relations our neighbor daughter who is only 15 a sophmore in highschool and she's pregnant ! She's so busy taking care of her 3 siblings and one of them are special needs because their mother is nearly gone all the time or sleeping.

It's like that 15 yr old girl is a single mom of 3 with one on the way and she still found the time to be intimate .


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
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Or they sneak away from the group when hanging out with friends, or cut class, or really do a number of other things in order to be alone. Unless you are on their tale 24/7 you can't know when they are about to have sex and stop them.

Someone who doesn't feel comfortable with co-ed sleep overs is allowed to not allow them. But truth be told, there is a much better way to protect your children than always being no more than x number of feet away. That would be education and talking and helping them understand that they don't have to do something just because they want to or someone else wants them to and there are ways to put a stop to that kind of situation.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honey693*
> 
> I 'm not that far away from teenager so I need to chime in here. Honestly if they're going to do anything they're going to do it whether it's at a sleepover, a date, parking, etc. And before anyone says it's easier during a sleepover, it's not. It's a lot easier to make out in while parking in some dark parking lot where you don't have to worry about getting caught by your parents than it is when you're in separate rooms, sneaking into one room, trying not to make noise and keep an ear out for parents. When I had sleepovers with my boyfriend in high school we actually slept (and his mom let us sleep in the same room). I just liked staying there b/c I didn't have to worry about driving home late, keeping up my parents (they wouldn't sleep unless I was home b/c they worried about me driving at night) and it was just nice to be that close to someone.


Well, on the subject of easier....Yeah it is easier. I speak from (lots) of experience.

But, that's not really the point. It's not so much a matter of "if the are going to do it, they are going to do it." It's a matter of not providing the opportunity. With teenage hormones, they often AREN'T going to do it...but then the opportunity is there and the hormones are there and suddenly things are happening that they didn't expect.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
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And really, what are the chances of that happening when the parents are right upstairs? The reason that having rules about when and where they can be and who has to be with them doesn't stop teens from having sex is because it's not all about in the moment happenings. There is often planning that goes into how to do it.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Quote:
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For my niece the chances (with the parents in the next room) turned out to be 100%. Neither she nor her "friend" had a car and were never alone, except for these "slumber parties". It does happen. And many kids, when they have to take the time to plan things out and maneuver to get time to fool around, have some time to THINK about what they are going to do. It gives them a moment to fully understand that they are purposely lying or deceiving to get time to do something of which they are probably not mature enough to handle the consequences. When it's the middle of the night and dark and spur of the moment... because the parents PROVIDED the moment... things can go too far, too fast.

There is a HUGE difference between giving your children the tools to think through these decisions vs. offering up on a golden platter the opportunity to let all of that teaching go down the drain in a flash of hormones. Teaching them is one thing... providing the opportunity is another. You don't have to keep your eye on them 24/7, but you don't have to pretend that a sleepover is absolutely always going to be "platonic".

I've learned some great lessons of what NOT to do from my niece, who informed me that she probably wouldn't have ruined her life if my sister and BIL would have just not allowed the "slumber" parties (at which there was never much slumbering).


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Quote:
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But did they provide the tools your niece needed to make other decisions? There is a difference between a teen with complete and factual information about sex and knowledge of how to acquire or access to birth control. I know plenty of people who, as teens, were allowed sleepovers. With people they were dating even, and only one got pregnant as a teen and she doesn't think she ruined her life.

And I'm sorry, but someone who claims, as an adult, that her parents were responsible for what she did at 15 still has some growing up to do. As in realizing that in the end they were her choices. As is often pointed out by the abstinence crowd, teens can and do make the choice not to have sex even in the heat of the moment. It still comes down to whether or not they have the tools they need to make the choice that is right for them. On the other hand, if she was rape at one of the parties, then in the end it's the fault of boy who did it.

That being said, maybe she needs to stop thinking of it in the sense of a ruined life. A child at 15, 16, 17 is not a horrible thing unless you make it one. You being not just the mom in question but those closest to her as well.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
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Well, I have biological proof sitting upstairs that the chances are 100%. Except that the parents weren't upstairs, they were in the next room, and it wasn't a sleepover, it was a couple hours after school in a room with a door mostly closed.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> For my niece the chances (with the parents in the next room) turned out to be 100%. Neither she nor her "friend" had a car and were never alone, except for these "slumber parties". It does happen. And many kids, when they have to take the time to plan things out and maneuver to get time to fool around, have some time to THINK about what they are going to do. It gives them a moment to fully understand that they are purposely lying or deceiving to get time to do something of which they are probably not mature enough to handle the consequences. When it's the middle of the night and dark and spur of the moment... because the parents PROVIDED the moment... things can go too far, too fast.
> 
> ...


I totally agree (well except for the part about a baby meaning a ruined life)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> But did they provide the tools your niece needed to make other decisions? There is a difference between a teen with complete and factual information about sex and knowledge of how to acquire or access to birth control. I know plenty of people who, as teens, were allowed sleepovers. With people they were dating even, and only one got pregnant as a teen and she doesn't think she ruined her life.
> 
> ...


I can tell you that my parents did provide the right tools. I certainly was not misinformed or anything of the sort. I simply, like most teens, never thought it would happen to me.

And yeah, there are teens who can and do make the right choices in the heat of the moment. However, I would never want to provide a golden opportunity to test out which choices my own child would make when the consequences can be SO major.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

I guess I just have a little more faith in teens. I also don't consider teens choosing to have sex to always be the wrong choice.


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## sweet.p (Jul 31, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> I guess I just have a little more faith in teens. I also don't consider teens choosing to have sex to always be the wrong choic


Musician dad how old are you sexually active adolescents?

I have been the mother of that 15 year old teenage girl asked to sleep over a boys house who were "friends".

The parents did NOT call me to ask if this was okay!


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

A baby at 15, 16, 17 would most emphatically be my definition of "ruining your life." I understand that some people feel differently and I have no problem with that, but I would absolutely be devastated if my dd gave birth to a child at that age. And I know too many people who were in that situation and what the outcomes were like to ever want that for my child.

I do believe in very comprehensive sex ed, and strive to keep the lines of communication open with my kids. While it's no guarantee, providing opportunities for them to get pregnant at a young age just seems like going out of your way to find trouble to me.


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## kittywitty (Jul 5, 2005)

Well, I most definitely 100% do not believe having a baby can "ruin your life". It is a choice. I'm very happy with my choice and becoming a parent at 17 because she was a perfect miracle and has made my life complete. Luckily my mother did not feel devastated and supported me the best she could. I would not be devastated if my children became parents that young. Hopefully I will be better at the whole "sex ed" thing than my own family was. I did sleep over at male friends' houses but that's not where I got pregnant and never had sex there.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sweet.p*
> 
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First the parents should have asked if it was all right with you.

Second, my own children are not sexually active, however I was a sexually active teenager. Dh was a sexually active teenager. DH was a father at 16 and has told me more than once he wouldn't change a thing, except maybe DD's bio mom's decision to not be involved. When I was 17, I moved in with them and chose freely to become a parent. There is no way I would consider any of the sex I had as a teenager to be a bad choice.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EFmom*
> 
> A baby at 15, 16, 17 would most emphatically be my definition of "ruining your life." I understand that some people feel differently and I have no problem with that, but I would absolutely be devastated if my dd gave birth to a child at that age. And I know too many people who were in that situation and what the outcomes were like to ever want that for my child.
> 
> I do believe in very comprehensive sex ed, and strive to keep the lines of communication open with my kids. While it's no guarantee, providing opportunities for them to get pregnant at a young age just seems like going out of your way to find trouble to me.


As I just mentioned, DH became a father at 16 and it most definitely did not ruin his life. And before you say anything about it, bio mom only invested herself long enough to give birth. DH was the sole caregiver for his DD until he and I got involved.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Interesting turn the thread has taken.

If one of my DDs got pregnant, I'd support her 100%, but I would be sad. It isn't what I want for them. I hope they do a whole bunch of other things before becoming parents. I wouldn't consider her life ruined, but very *different*. Different in a way that I wouldn't chose for them.

After reading other people's comments, I've come to realize that if other parents said it was fine for my DD to spend the night with their son, I would be offended. I would think less of the other parents. I would consider them poor judges of what was best for my kid. I would trust them less and feel less comfortable with my kid spending ANY time at their house.

I'm not saying that's right, but its how I feel.


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## whatsnextmom (Apr 2, 2010)

Hmm, I find it hard to believe that anyone would say having a baby at 16 or 17 was ideal. My own parents were that age when they had me. Yes, they've had a great life. They've been married almost 40 years. I'm grateful to be here. However, neither wanted that for me and it didn't stop them from giving me proper supervision throughout my childhood and adolescence. They were very careful I didn't feel personally guilty for how my coming changed their lives but I was pretty observant and I knew enough of the difficulties to not want it for myself. Teen pregancy is hard under even the best circumstances and most pregnant teens will not have the best circumstances. My mom pretty much lost her family. My dad's family was at least financially able to help them get through high school and college though they also worked non-stop those years trying to cover the costs. It is manageable but it IS a big deal and not something most parents would want for their kids. Feeling that way doesn't make a parent a prude or unrealistic.... it just makes them, well, a parent.

No kid will be scarred because they didn't spend the night at the opposite sex's home as a teen.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> I've learned some great lessons of what NOT to do from my niece, who informed me that she probably wouldn't have ruined her life if my sister and BIL would have just not allowed the "slumber" parties (at which there was never much slumbering).


I'm wondering, now. What is it that is the real danger of co-ed sleepovers? Is it fear of unplanned pregnancy? Or fear of sexual activity? Because, of course, sexual activity can take place at single sex sleepovers as well as at co-ed sleepovers.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> I'm wondering, now. What is it that is the real danger of co-ed sleepovers? Is it fear of unplanned pregnancy? Or fear of sexual activity? Because, of course, sexual activity can take place at single sex sleepovers as well as at co-ed sleepovers.


To me, it is a lack of appropriate boundaries.

And if I thought my DD was gay, I wouldn't want her girlfriend sleeping over. I don't think it's appropriate. I don't think teens are well served by having casual sex, even if they don't get pregnant. I think that sex intensifies emotions *for many people* and that life and relationships are complicated enough for teens without that. In our conversations about sex, we talk about *why* waiting until you are an adult to have sex makes sense, even for gays, and even if you are careful about birth control.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

I agree that if it makes you uncomfortable, then you shouldn't allow it.

I also completely disagree that co-ed sleepovers will cause every teenager to engage in sexual activity. I crashed at parties as a teen and didn't sleep with my male friends. My DH and his brother did not fool around with their sister's friends when she had slumber parties. And my own kids have had co-ed sleepovers many times. All of the kids who they hang out with are also the children of my closest friends, and out of all of them (ages 15-19) only ONE is sexually active, and she's not sleeping with any of our gang. She has her own 20yo boyfriend whom she met at work.

'Course, all of them (save two) are/were homeschooled, so they aren't exactly worried about people spreading rumors about them. Everybody has differing ideas of what constitutes an "appropriate boundary."

My mother, a good friend of mine, another good friend's daughter, and my neighbor's daughter were all pregnant before they were 17. No boys ever spent the night. What they all had in common was emotional insecurity and lack of information/resources, not sleepovers.


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## philomom (Sep 12, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Interesting turn the thread has taken.
> 
> ...


I agree with you 100% on this.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whatsnextmom*
> 
> Hmm, I find it hard to believe that anyone would say having a baby at 16 or 17 was ideal. My own parents were that age when they had me. Yes, they've had a great life. They've been married almost 40 years. I'm grateful to be here. However, neither wanted that for me and it didn't stop them from giving me proper supervision throughout my childhood and adolescence. They were very careful I didn't feel personally guilty for how my coming changed their lives but I was pretty observant and I knew enough of the difficulties to not want it for myself. Teen pregancy is hard under even the best circumstances and most pregnant teens will not have the best circumstances. My mom pretty much lost her family. My dad's family was at least financially able to help them get through high school and college though they also worked non-stop those years trying to cover the costs. It is manageable but it IS a big deal and not something most parents would want for their kids. Feeling that way doesn't make a parent a prude or unrealistic.... it just makes them, well, a parent.
> 
> No kid will be scarred because they didn't spend the night at the opposite sex's home as a teen.


Show me where anyone has said that having a child at 16 or 17 was ideal? I have only seen people saying that it does not automatically ruin ones life, and that plenty of teen parents don't regret or feel that their pregnancy ruined their life. Why is it that when ever someone talks about 100% support of teen parents or how they or someone they know were teen parents and they don't feel they ruined their life they are somehow promoting teen parenthood as ideal?


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Why should your boundaries be the default?

And why is teen sex, even in a relationship, casual? I can promise that the sex DH and I had when we were teens was not casual. It wasn't a mistake either and waiting until we were adults didn't make anymore sense than not waiting.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> And why is teen sex, even in a relationship, casual?


It's because modern society infantilizes children until they're 18, at which point they become freeloaders and are thrown out of the house. If you're under 18, you're obviously not capable of mature thinking, impulse control, or good decision making. Once you turn 18, you're supposed to have your goals in order, a major chosen, and rent money.

/sarcasm


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> I totally agree (well except for the part about a baby meaning a ruined life)


It wasn't one baby... she repeated her mistake and had 3 children at the age of 18 (the second pregnancy was a set of twins).


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


She was on birth control (the pill), without her parents' knowledge for BOTH pregnancies. Birth control fails. And yes, even now she has some growing up to do and she's nearly 30.

I'm saying that as a parent, you don't have to provide the opportunity. To think that a sleepover at 14/15 years old is going to be innocent is ridiculous. And I doubt anyone here would condone an active sexual relationship at this age for any couple. It's no different than letting a 2 year old who likes to put thing in their mouth play with marbles. We're not talking about 18 year olds here... we're talking about 14 year old. There is a HUGE difference.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Because as parents helping children establish boundaries is part of our jobs. And casual sex is EVERYWHERE among teens. Even if it's meaningful for one party, doesn't mean it is for the other.

And no offense, but you are saying "when dh and I were teens" yet, IIRC, you've mentioned before that your dh is quite a bit older than you (I was thinking you are around 23 and he is 30ish), so I'm wondering what you mean by "when we were teens". Perhaps it wasn't casual for you and your partner, but for many teens (with same-age and older partners) is often *IS* very casual... and traumatic because they don't have the emotional maturity at 14 or 15 to understand a very intense and physical relationship.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

I had a long post, but I think that it was insulting to people who've made other life choices or are OK with the kids making other life choices. I've no desire to insult ANYONE'S choices or how any one's life has played out.

I'm sure that we all want our kids to be happy and have the best lives possible, we just disagree on the best way of going about that.

Peace.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> I guess I just have a little more faith in teens. I also don't consider teens choosing to have sex to always be the wrong choice.


I truely hope your dd never gives you reason to lose that faith.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EFmom*
> 
> A baby at 15, 16, 17 would most emphatically be my definition of "ruining your life." I understand that some people feel differently and I have no problem with that, but I would absolutely be devastated if my dd gave birth to a child at that age. And I know too many people who were in that situation and what the outcomes were like to ever want that for my child.
> 
> I do believe in very comprehensive sex ed, and strive to keep the lines of communication open with my kids. While it's no guarantee, providing opportunities for them to get pregnant at a young age just seems like going out of your way to find trouble to me.


My life was most emphatically NOT ruined by getting pg at 17. It was made more difficult, but not ruined. That doesn't mean that's what I want for my dd, but I believe that presenting that consequence as the ruining of a life is part of what makes so many teen mom's "statistics." They are told so much that they have ruined their lives that they end up believing it and believing that they can't make things better.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whatsnextmom*
> 
> Hmm, I find it hard to believe that anyone would say having a baby at 16 or 17 was ideal. My own parents were that age when they had me. Yes, they've had a great life. They've been married almost 40 years. I'm grateful to be here. However, neither wanted that for me and it didn't stop them from giving me proper supervision throughout my childhood and adolescence. They were very careful I didn't feel personally guilty for how my coming changed their lives but I was pretty observant and I knew enough of the difficulties to not want it for myself. Teen pregancy is hard under even the best circumstances and most pregnant teens will not have the best circumstances. My mom pretty much lost her family. My dad's family was at least financially able to help them get through high school and college though they also worked non-stop those years trying to cover the costs. It is manageable but it IS a big deal and not something most parents would want for their kids. Feeling that way doesn't make a parent a prude or unrealistic.... it just makes them, well, a parent.
> 
> No kid will be scarred because they didn't spend the night at the opposite sex's home as a teen.


I don't think anyone is saying it's ideal. I think there's a whole lot of grey area between "ideal" and "ruin your life."


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


In regards to your neice, I am sorry that she's been through that. It sounds like she's got some other issues going on too.

I agree completely with that last paragraph. Right down to allowing a 2 year old to play with marbles-that is almost exactly the analogy I was going to use.

I think it is a parent's JOB, as the parent of a no fully mature person, to do their best to ensure that person does not have opportunities to experience major consequences.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> I'm wondering, now. What is it that is the real danger of co-ed sleepovers? Is it fear of unplanned pregnancy? Or fear of sexual activity? Because, of course, sexual activity can take place at single sex sleepovers as well as at co-ed sleepovers.


It's both and more. It's fear of STDs, it's fears of one party being taken advantage of and hurt emotionally, it's fear of all sorts of consequences of sex that teens may not fully realize that we as parents want to help them avoid. I think if a parent has any reason to suspect that their child might be gay, then of course same gender sleep overs should be avoided as well. However, since the majority of the human race is interested in the opposite sex, it makes sense to automatically be concerned about co ed sleepovers first.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2xy*
> 
> I agree that if it makes you uncomfortable, then you shouldn't allow it.
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone is saying that co ed sleepovers CAUSE every teen to be sexually active. What is being said is that it doesn't make sense to provide the opportunity. Leaving a margarita in a pitcher on the counter won't CAUSE every teen to drink, but it's pretty silly to think that if that sort of opportunity is there that there won't be any teens who pick up that pitcher and have some. And many of those teens who take advantage of that opportunity (of either type) are teens who have been parented "the right way." and know the risks and so on, and temptation just gets the best of them.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

I agree that it really doesn't make sense to provide the opportunity and temptation. If they're going to do it, they'll find a way. I don't need to lead them to it.


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## BedHead (Mar 8, 2007)

I don't see how allowing them to sleep in separate rooms is giving them any opportunities they don't have somewhere else. That said, I don't think I would have let my kids have a bf/gf sleep over at that age though. My older two have their gf's stay overnight in their rooms all the time now though. iirc it started around age 17/18. They seemed to sense before that it would be a no-go I guess.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Just to let you know, you are addressing someone who was in a sexual relationship at 15 with the person he married. My dad condoned it because he knew in the end it was my choice.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

They can have all the opportunities they can find - but not in my home. Certainly not other people's children.

Diff'rent strokes.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


It's not just gay teens that have sex at single sex sleepovers. Maybe they sneak opposite sex friends into the house, or they sneak out of the house.

Basically what it comes down to is that if a teenager wants to have sex, they will have sex, unless you are willing to handcuff yourself to them.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Just to let you know, you are addressing someone who was in a sexual relationship at 15 with the person he married. My dad condoned it because he knew in the end it was my choice.


But you do realize that's unusual, right? For the most part, those don't tend to be long relationships.

I think you sound like a wonderful parent in many, many ways, but I wonder if you really understand the fallout for many girls when their boyfriend, who they've been sleeping with, dumps them and starts sleeping with someone else. I think you are kinda seeing this through rose colored glasses.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> I don't think anyone is saying it's ideal. I think there's a whole lot of grey area between "ideal" and "ruin your life."


Agreed, and I like the way you said that. Years ago I meet a really awesome woman who had her son very young, and she was such a great AP mom and her little boy was so precious. Her life wasn't ruined and sweet child wasn't a mistake.

But her life was hard. Very hard.

and it just isn't the path I would chose for my child

but a baby is still a blessing, even if the timing is far from perfect


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Linda on the move*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Yeah but even if a relationship doesn't last, sex is not always a horrible bad thing.

And rose coloured glasses? Really? Because I happen to know that sex/babies/intense emotional relationships when your a teen are not always as horrible as society would have you believe? Why can't we just accept the fact that things are just not as black and white as "teen sex is bad and no teen sex is good".


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## greenmulberry (Jan 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Yeah but even if a relationship doesn't last, sex is not always a horrible bad thing.
> 
> And rose coloured glasses? Really? Because I happen to know that sex/babies/intense emotional relationships when your a teen are not always as horrible as society would have you believe? Why can't we just accept the fact that things are just not as black and white as "teen sex is bad and no teen sex is good".


I have to agree with you. I became sexually active at 15. Nothing bad happened. Nobody ever once called me a slut.

We had some teenage drama over the couple years we dated and before we graduated high school I was realizing we had different goals so I broke up with him, but I actually think I learned some good personal relationship skills from that experience.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


ITTA with Musician Dad. Although I would prefer my daughter not be sexually active as a teen, it doesn't mean it has to be disastrous if she does. I know a lot of folks from HS who had sex, and came through it unscathed. Of course, I also know some who really had a rough go of it - in life-altering ways. It is a very emotional decision, and a very personal one. Hopefully, your child (son OR daughter) and you have a good enough relationship where s/he is comfortable enough to not only talk to you, but at least take your thoughts under consideration.

Both of mine are pretty level-headed and are waiting for the right person with whom to take that step. My daughter (who is still <18) knows that she can come talk to me w/o my freaking out, and that I will make sure she is safe when she is ready. Right now, she's not - and has told me AND her b/f that. He's a nice kid and is in the same place in that regard (from what she says of their conversations). She's said to me "If he cares about me, he'll wait. If he wants to pressure me? Then he doesn't really care about me, and he's not the right guy to do it with." Wise words for a 16yo.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You *are* the exception and not the rule. In your case, it has worked out wonderfully (and it sounds like your father, taking a chance, made a good decision to support the relationship), but that is not how it usually ends up, especially when there is such an age difference at that stage in life. If it had not turned out so well for you, if your dh had moved on to someone else, would you have fared so well? That's what happens 99% of the time at your age when the relationship started - the two people move on and often it is at the expense of one of them. You may have been lucky because your dh was an adult at the time (not that I condone 15 year olds getting involved with adults in their 20s), but the dynamics of your relationship is not usual in any way shape or form and can't be used as a benchmark. We're talking about two 14 year old kids who may have an attraction to each other. If they're really going to have sex, you can provide the education of safe sex, and be there when/if they fall, but you don't have to give them carte blanche as if they were in a long-term adult relationship. You can't use one single data point (your experience) to base these things upon. You have to look at the big picture.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> We're talking about two 14 year old kids who may have an attraction to each other.


I think that's a key point.

Is everyone here under the impression that teenagers are so hormone crazy that they are attracted to every single person of the opposite sex? Boys and girls can't be friends? Most of my friends in high school were boys.

There are four girls my sons are very chummy with. They've been friends for six years. None of them have ever dated each other. One of them briefly had a crush on my older DS, but he didn't feel the same way about her. I have no problems with any of these girls crashing on our couch.

When we have co-ed sleepovers, it's often because our friends all live in different cities and it's not so easy to get home at the end of the day. The buses have limited service to certain areas, and parents aren't always available to play chauffeur. Sometimes it's planned ahead, like for a birthday party.

I'm curious, also, having just the two boys.....what do you all do if your son wants his friend to sleep over and you also have a daughter that's close in age? My friend has a boy and girl, 13 months apart. They are in the same grade at school and therefore know all the same people. Should she not allow either of them to have slumber parties?


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

I'll leave he word "bad" alone, as it describes young teens having sex. But how about life altering? This is how I think of it. This age isn't that far off for our family. I really would not want to give the message that it's OK, or healthy, or facilitate the circumstances myself. It simply is not the life changing experience I would want for my dd at that age. It truly is life changing, IMO, because no relationship you have after that (and at that age there will probably be many), will be quite the same. That's just how it is.

At risk of sounding like a seriously conservative old fart here, I want a different life for my kid than being sexually active in the early teen years. I don't want her to have that level of emotional intensity, responsibility, and frankly, relationship, taking up her time. It doesn't mean it won't happen-I know that. And I certainly would be available for any support, information--we do that already. But I'm not going to clear the way because in my view, it's not a good thing. It doesn't a all mean that I don't value or respect my child either.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *velochic*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I am looking at the bigger picture. It tells me that you can't assume that a relationship a teen has, even if said teen has sex, is going to be a horrible experience. I have more than just my experiences to go off of. I know very few people who regret having sex as a teen.

There is no usual for teen relationships, there are far to many variables to make assumptions. All I know is that promoting the idea to teens that a sexual relationship at that age is a bad idea is a sure fire way to make said teen ashamed and less likely to seek help if something does go awry.

And just a note, DH wasn't in his 20's when we got together. He's only 3 years older than I am. He also wasn't my first, and neither I nor the other person were harmed in the ended of our relationship.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2xy*
> 
> I'm curious, also, having just the two boys.....what do you all do if your son wants his friend to sleep over and you also have a daughter that's close in age? My friend has a boy and girl, 13 months apart. They are in the same grade at school and therefore know all the same people. Should she not allow either of them to have slumber parties?


I have one of each. 2 years and a bit apart. He really only had one guy friend he wanted to have stay over when they were teens - and he was more like a brother to my two than anything else. For a while, #2 had a crush on him, and we kept the boys' sleepovers to his house. Same when he later developed a crush on her and they dated casually.

It really comes down to common sense, IMO.


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## happysmileylady (Feb 6, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Just so you know, you are talking with someone who had a LOT of sex between the ages of 16 and 18. I am perfectly aware that if a teen wants to have sex, they are going to find a way. I certainly did, in lots of different places. Of course there are kids that can and will sneak out of the house (of course, then they aren't having sex AT the sleepover, are they?)

I think however that you are entirely missing the point. The point is NOT that we don't believe that teens will find a way to have sex. It's that we don't think it makes ANY sense to provide a hormonal, sexually immature TEENAGER a GOLDEN opportunity to get themselves into a situation that can have very serious consequences.

Sure, there COULD be some very awesome consequences, obviously you have experienced them. However, risks far outweigh any potential benefits for teens having sex. A teen is far more likely to be hurt by someone taking advantage of them and using them just for sex than they are to be having sex with the person they will spend the rest of their life with.

And you know, yes, there are millions of teens who have sex who experience only minor consequences. They aren't taken advantage of, they don't get a disease, they don't get pg/get a girl pg, etc etc. But, why risk any of that by giving the teen a chance to test their impulse control.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *happysmileylady*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


First, how can you expect teens to have the tools to make the choices that are right for them, when you come from the point of view that the only right choice is no sex. Every teen is different. There is no one right answer.

Second, most of the people I know who were allowed opposite sex sleep overs did not have sex during those sleep overs.

Third, anyone can be taken advantage of in regards to sex, or be hurt because of it.

Fourth, just because you aren't going to be spending the rest of your life with someone doesn't mean the sex is bad choice or going to result in some sort of emotional pain.

Why do we insist on trying to control teens, especially older teens. They aren't children. Not any more, and they shouldn't be treated like children.

One last thing, does anyone actually remember my first post in this thread? Because I distinctly remember saying that if parents aren't comfortable with these sleep overs then they are allowed to not have them.

All that being said, sex positivity is the way we chose to go, the biggest reason being that everyone I know who has come from that type of household has never had a problem saying no when they didn't want to have sex and most were out of high school before becoming sexually active.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

It feels like the debate is being framed as no sex versus allowing/expecting sexual activity, in young teens. The OP has a 14 y/o ds--14 is a young teen, not an older teen, in my book. I don't think that the issue is trying to control teens as much as it is trying to guide teens. I believe that you can have a positive attitude about sex without wanting your younger teen to be sexually active. There is a time for most things in life-who can fault a parent who would wish that sexual activity, and all of the resulting potential issues, was not part of a young teens life?


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> First, how can you expect teens to have the tools to make the choices that are right for them, when you come from the point of view that the only right choice is no sex. Every teen is different. There is no one right answer.
> 
> ...


Spot on. I have never regretted any of my casual sexual activity. I honestly have never heard anyone I know express regret about having been sexually active as a teen. I see sex as a natural part of growing up rather than some kind of ticking time bomb that must be prevented at all costs.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karne*
> 
> It feels like the debate is being framed as no sex versus allowing/expecting sexual activity, in young teens. The OP has a 14 y/o ds--14 is a young teen, not an older teen, in my book. I don't think that the issue is trying to control teens as much as it is trying to guide teens. I believe that you can have a positive attitude about sex without wanting your younger teen to be sexually active. There is a time for most things in life-who can fault a parent who would wish that sexual activity, and all of the resulting potential issues, was not part of a young teens life?


Wish all you want, but when you make it clear you think sex is wrong at 14 or 15 or 16 and your teen feels that for them it is right to become sexually active then they are not getting a positive message about themselves or about sex.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Nevermind. I'm just repeating myself.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Wish all you want, but when you make it clear you think sex is wrong at 14 or 15 or 16 and your teen feels that for them it is right to become sexually active then they are not getting a positive message about themselves or about sex.


I respect that we are coming from different places here, and I respect that what you do in your family is right for you. But I do want to say that I think parenting at this age may involve my child thinking that something might be right for them, and us, as parents saying slow down, lets think this through-this particular thing is not, in our view, as your parents, right for you at this moment. Having sex at 14 years old would qualify as one of those moments, for me as a parent. I don't think that means that my kid doesn't get a positive message about themselves. Actually, if that's what it takes for my child to feel good about themselves, than I think we might have bigger issues going on.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karne*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


You think there is a problem with your child needing to have some degree of control over their lives to grow into adults with a strong sense of their own ability make the right choices for them? Or do you think that there is a problem with any child needing to have positive messages about their abilities in order become adults with a positive sense of self?

What it all comes down to is that sometimes the teen is right and the parent is wrong. No one is incapable of making mistakes and no one is incapable of making the right choice, even if the choice is something that you personally wouldn't chose for yourself.


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## karne (Jul 6, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MusicianDad*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I think that you can help your child do all of this without encouraging them to have sex as a young teen. I know this because we're doing it. I think that there are many ways to give positive messages about a young person's abilities, and to give them control over their lives without paving the way for early sexual activity.

I'll bow out here because I'm comfortable with my feelings on this, and don't' want to debate what anyone else feels is right for their children.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karne*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone has said we should encourage sexual activity. Only that we shouldn't actively paint teen sexuality as an entirely bad thing. No one is going to be helped by making a generalized rule an applying it to everyone.


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## EFmom (Mar 16, 2002)

Quote:


> Why do we insist on trying to control teens, especially older teens. They aren't children. Not any more, and they shouldn't be treated like children.


I disagree completely. They aren't small children, but they are children. Their brains are different than adult brains, as has been shown in many neurological studies. Areas of the brain that control cognitive decision making, risk-taking behavior, and impulse control are still developing.

They shouldn't be treated like 5 year olds, but they still need guidance and boundaries.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EFmom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


My teens are definitely not children, they are young women.


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## MusicianDad (Jun 24, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EFmom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


And yet numerous societies through out time and all over the world, even today, seem to show that teens are capable of being adults. The industrialized world has extended childhood beyond what is evolutionarily normal. The brain never stops growing and changing, your brain now is different then it will be in 10, 20, 50 years from now. In 50 years your own ability to assess a situation and make a choice about what is appropriate will be different simply because the brain and how it works changes.

We treat teens like children then get PO'd when they act immature and rebellious when the whole reason for adolescence is for them to find out who they are a make their own choices. When given the opportunity, most teens will chose to do exactly what their parents tell them not to. On the other hand, when given the chance to make a choice with their parents telling them what is best, most teens will do what is best for them.

If teens were really as stupid as society seems to think, the human race would have died off a long time ago. No one would have made it past 16.


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## mommaof3boz (Feb 15, 2006)

If at age 18 my son could be called to serve his country, elect a president and legally get married what does it take to be an adult??? So older teens aren't adults? I started nursing school at age 18, got engaged at nineteen, moved in with dh at 19 and got married at 20. Sorry but I don't buy that for a second. Each person becomes an adult at their own pace. You can't put a number on it. It has to do with emotional maturity and responsibility and respect for others.

To answer the original question: Yes I would allow her to sleep over IF it was OK with her parents. Not in the same room. I slept over at my dhs parents house. We'd already had a whole lotta sex by that point. I slept on their couch. We truely never snuck into each others rooms. We respected his parents to much.


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## littlest birds (Jul 18, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *choli*
> 
> My teens are definitely not children, they are young women.












I am mainly working on not treating dd like a child. She went through puberty years ago. If there is any age "child" well suited to a consensual living approach this is it it seems. I left home at her age. I can remember being that young woman, my own person, at that age. Of course I was also quite immature, but I was really darn ready --truly ready--to figure things out myself anyhow and I did better for myself than my parents were.

I do remember how I thought and felt. I try to put myself in my dd's place based on that and respect who she is.

I do not encourage her having sex, nor do I forbid it. Most important to me is that she really be able to truly enjoy her sexuality rather than feel uncomfortable or emotionally confused or isolated. So far she is doing way better than I did overall.

I do not think that allowing a sleepover grants permission for sex. I think it is an interesting challenge to handle together in full communication if parent and teen are ready for it. I felt a little weird about the idea that an out of town male friend, with no interest in "hooking up", would be unable to visit at all simply because of their gender. Of course, it was also a little weird to allow it. But looking back months later, I am glad we did it.


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## amnesiac (Dec 28, 2001)

I wouldn't agree to the sleepover but I'm just not a fan of them anyway. I have no problem with other kids coming over & staying late but I really don't see the point of sleeping over. If we're talking about someone coming to visit from out of town or something that's one thing but if you're talking about a local friend then that's another.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amnesiac*
> 
> I wouldn't agree to the sleepover but I'm just not a fan of them anyway. I have no problem with other kids coming over & staying late but I really don't see the point of sleeping over. If we're talking about someone coming to visit from out of town or something that's one thing but if you're talking about a local friend then that's another.


Well, in my experience if kids don't sleep over then someone needs to drive them home late at night... plus if they stay they often make me breakfast in the morning.


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## amnesiac (Dec 28, 2001)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I guess it's sort of a compromise at my house. Since I'm up late on the weekends I don't mind driving them. I guess I'd just rather deal with transportation at night than to have my morning chill space altered.







My kids don't seem to mind because it's really the staying up late part they dig. If they do have sleepovers it's generally with kids on our block that can just walk across the street when they get up in the morning. If for some reason I did let one of the boys' gf sleep over I'd want to make certain her parents were okay with it.


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## johnnymomma (Nov 28, 2010)

I have a pretty "good kid" kind of son who was 14 this past summer. He had a lovely girlfriend who we've known since they were in kindergarten together. We have a very small house with no rec room. She was over for a visit and I had talked to her mom about the logistics, and she said they had hung out at her house together in her bedroom as long as the door was open, no problem. I told my son, who promised nothing more than hand-holding, that I would agree under 2 conditions--door open, and to expect that I'd come to visit a whole lot and to know he'd never hear me coming. He said of course, no problem. Well, twelve minutes after they went up, it got quiet, so I went up to check. They both had their shirts off and were lying on the bed making out. That image will be burned into my noggin until the end of my days, let me tell you. It's not that they are bad or perverted--they are normal teenagers who are marinating in hormones 24/7.

I agree with the replies to let them do a later-than-usual night as a compromise, then you drive her home. Trust isn't the issue: biology is. But, perhaps you want to reinforce with him that it is the situation you don't trust, not him. A possible analogy that'd he'd understand might be: I trust you not to drink, but I wouldn't leave you alone with a six pack of beer (or whatever similar analogy works in your situation). And I agree that it doesn't matter who gave birth to this child--you are POA & in loco parentis and you are, for all purposes, his loving, caring parents. One yucky thing I have had to learn lately is that the incredibly sweet relationship I've had with my older son has had to change in some ways as he's aged (he's 15 now). Despite what they say, kids do want limits. This child sounds pretty fortunate that you are in his life--congratulations and keep up the good (hard) work.

Also, as a side note--I am a middle school teacher (home with a baby this year), and I have caught kids having sex in the bathroom. It can happen in about a split second. They are like jackrabbits.


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## 2xy (Nov 30, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amnesiac*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


IME, homeschoolers' friends come from far and wide, which is maybe why Dar and I see things the way we do. My boys have only two friends who live within walking distance. One lives two houses over, part time. The other is about two miles away, down a steep hill and up another, which is lots of fun in the winter. The rest are, at best, a 20-40 minute drive.

I don't work the same hours every day, and neither does DH. "Late at night" is often when we're getting home from work. A 90-minute round trip at midnight is not something I'm interested in.


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## Dar (Apr 12, 2002)

We're actually pretty lucky now in that most of Rain's friends live less than 5 miles away, but in the past they've definitely been farther away... but really, I've just never minded having extras around, especially once Rain got to be a teen and was pretty much self-sufficient. Maybe it's an only child thing - if Rain wanted a kid to play with we always had to import them, or export her...

And, on topic, Rain and her boyfriend are downstairs now, and yes, he will be spending the night. He's over 18 and lives on his own, so I'm not concerned about what his parents think. I'm comfortable with the precautions she has taken, and I'm comfortable with her being sexually active.

The again, she's 17 now. At 13 and 14 she used to sleepover at a male friend's house - actually, often there were two or three teen boys and Rain (all homeschooled, if that matters) - and there was nothing sexual going on at all, and I was totally comfortable with it.


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## amnesiac (Dec 28, 2001)

I can see how those things would make a huge difference for me too. My kids' friends live 5-10 minutes drive but if they lived farther that would be a different story. If they were older teens I think it would make me feel differently too. Since I'm generally dealing with 13-15 year olds I'm still involved with a lot of "can you take us...", "can we do...", "can we have..." type dialogue when kids are here & that's what just irritates me in the mornings. If they were a little older & more able to deal with some of that independently I wouldn't mind sleepovers so much.

It's not really the sexuality issue that bothers me personally. One of mine is sexually active & I know that he has taken appropriate precautions. I also know that he will be sexually active no matter where he spends the night & I'm good with that. I live in a pretty conservative area though & I wouldn't have an underage girl sleep over without talking to a parent because most around here are not very accepting of teenagers being even close to sexually active. I actually got a call from a parent over the weekend telling me she doesn't want her kid even talking to one of my ds on the phone or IM because she is too young to even be thinking about boys.


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## mtiger (Sep 10, 2006)

My daughter's asked for a NYE party this year, which I'm fine with. She actually is the one who suggested the guys sleep at another house - specifically because two of her friends (dating) would be looking for a place to have sex and neither she nor any of their mutual friends want to deal with that. As she put it: "They'd either be on my bed, or A's bed, or YOUR bed, or the couch, and... eewww. No." Note that her school friends range from living 10 minutes away, to almost an hour.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amnesiac*
> 
> I actually got a call from a parent over the weekend telling me she doesn't want her kid even talking to one of my ds on the phone or IM because she is too young to even be thinking about boys.


Good luck to her trying to control her daughter's thoughts


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## ecoteat (Mar 3, 2006)

When I was 14 or 15 I wanted my very best friend to spend the night on NYE SO BADLY. We were so close, but he was a guy. There were absolutely no romantic intentions there and my parents knew it. He had been my best friend for a few years and we did everything together. But my parents said no way. There are a lot of choices they made for me that I understand now that I'm a parent (even though my dd's only 4), but this is not one of them. I never understood why they said no and I still don't. Obviously it's hard to see into the future like that, but if dd was that age and her best friend happened to be a guy, I don't think I'd be likely to treat their friendship much differently than if it was a girl friend.


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