# October 2012 Rockstar Mamas



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Welcome to the Rockstar Mamas thread! Our wonderful group of mamas started following each other in the Charting to Avoid thread over in fertility. Eventually we created "The Whatever Ladies!", a safe place for those of us who were not trying to prevent pregnancy, though not actively trying to conceive either. Spread out over a year, we all got pregnant and had our current babes- several whom are over a year old now!

We made the decision to switch to Rockstar Mamas, after a conversation about how each and every one of us was a Rockstar in some way, for living and thriving through the parenting challenges thrown our way every day. Feel free to join us in our thread, but be warned, the conversation moves fast!

Not really rules but something to consider if you join:

1. Need to be chatty

2. Know that we are all vastly different from one another but we've become friends so we respect those differences. We are vaxers and nonvaxers; homeschoolers, unschoolers, public schoolers; run the gamut from vegan to paleo; some of us want more kids, some don't, and some aren't sure...but we all manage to really get along and come together on things we DO agree on.

3. Aren't afraid to ask each other the hard questions or point out the obvious when/if we want advice!

Member List:

lyeterae ~ Baby boy born February 2011
annie ~ Baby girl born April 7, 2011
Barefootscientist ~ Baby boy born May 30, 2011
AnnieA (due 7/18) ~ Baby girl born July 17, 2011
MarineWife (due 7/30) ~ Baby boy born July 25, 2011
Baby_Cakes (due 8/16) ~ Baby boy born August 16, 2011
MovingMomma (due 8/9) ~ Baby girl born August 18, 2011
akind1 (due 9/28) ~ Baby girl born October 11, 2011
mom2one (due 10/23) ~ Baby boy born October 21, 2011
jeninejessica (due 12/01) ~ Baby girl born November 29, 2011
Kindermama (due 1/6) ~ Baby boy born January 1, 2012

akind1 going around again ~ due 3/6/2013 but betting on 3/11 or 3/19
(I'm guessing another girl because our group is short one girl and we were right on 50/50 alternating boy/girl.







)

September Thread: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1362233/september-2012-rockstar-mamas


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Yay, October!

MW: you are perfectly eloquent - I was just also trying to say that just because a man wants sex (and his wife doesnt), doesn't mean it necessarily goes back that far. Now if he keeps pushing it, and pushing it, it likely does. Wife wanting more sex doesn't usually equate to forcing her husband - or being grumpy. Women are far more likely to withold sex as a punishment/manipiulative tool than men are. I do wonder how that dynamic plays out in same sex households . . .

In regards to sex crimes - you are very right about how frustrating it is that some things just aren't punished appropriately. And wording. I know some women are trying to "take back" the word slut. I think that's just stupid. I agree that women who dress provactively aren't "asking for it" but I also think that when they dress that way they should not be surprised when people (men and women alike) don't take them seriously. Not that you need to dress all dowdy and stuff - you can be sexy, appealing, all that, without being trashy. That doesn't mean that anyone has the right to treat women who do dress like that poorly. I think most of those women don't really think about why they dress like that. They say it's for attention, etc, but I don't know that they really want the kind of attention that attracts (or they do, bc they might have other deep issues going on)

I am probably not being any more eloquent. argghh. need lunch.

Cleaning services . . . I wish. I am more the organizer, deep cleaner. DH likes to surface clean and bag things up. Why do men not want to actually take out the trash???

He is also more picky about the house looking tidy. I tidy up if people are coming over. otherwise it's such a losing battle, I don't bother. I really need that nesting instict to kick in. Like NOW. LOL.

What are everyone's plans for halloween? do you do anything?

We have boo at the zoo, then trick or treating with friends, and at least one halloween party. Busy, busy times, but lots of use out of costumes!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Why do men not want to actually take out the trash???










I went through the stuff that dh piled back up on the dining room this morning and found the bag of trash he had been filling up while we were cleaning. It is a small grocery bag with just a few things in it. It would easily fit in our larger trash can and we were done cleaning in there. There was no more trash to throw out. Why did he put it in a box underneath some framed photos instead of in the trash can?









Yeah, I don't think it's any less hurtful or offensive for women to demand sex and use it as a tool to manipulate. There's nothing wrong with wanting sex but there is something wrong with getting angry and pouty if you don't get it whenever you want it. If you turn your partner down every time s/he tries and there aren't issues like illness or sheer exhaustion/sleep deprivation, I think it's very possible there is a problem. If you are turning your partner down because you are exhausted and sleep deprived, your partner should step up and do more to alleviate that problem if s/he wants more sex.

I don't know that dh and I have different levels of sex drive or libido or whatever it is called. As I've said many times before, dh won't turn me down if I initiate but he never fully initiates. I was always the initiator. Even this last time we had sex he didn't actually do anything until I told him it was ok. To me, I still initiated that because, if I hadn't said anything, it never would have happened. He hasn't said or done anything since then. I guess he's satisfied for now. So, for us, lack of sex is more of an intimacy issue, I think. The closer, more connected and more intimate we are in other areas, the more sex we want and have.

What's interesting to me is that now that I'm done having babies I feel like I could never have sex again and I'd be fine. That could also be breastfeeding hormones suppressing my drive. I guess I won't know that until I stop breastfeeding. :shurg

We got in a huge fight last night about the cleaning. DH keeps putting his things in front of dresser drawers and closet doors and such so that I have to move his boots and dirty clothes and what not out of my way before I can get clothes for the boys or put laundry away or whatever. I have been asking him for months to stop doing that. So, last night he decided to clean the upstairs playroom (which he didn't finish, by the way) and stacked the Wii fit board underneath the VCR. I asked him why he did something like that AGAIN.

Yes, I was annoyed so I probably sounded a little snarky but wth? He goes into a tirade (after trying to ignore me at first) about how there's nowhere to put anything around here and, if I'm going to nag him about cleaning the wrong way, he just won't do anything. I told him it wasn't about doing things my way vs. his way. It was about simply being considerate of others when you put this away. Put them away so that they won't be in the way of other things and/or can be gotten to/used by those who use them. Oh, and if there is stuff all over the place, put it away! Don't complain to me about it and then leave it. You live here, too. These are your kids, too. It's not my stuff all over the place. It's just stuff. KWIM?

It was actually really good to get that out, for both of us, I think. I'm glad he finally let off some steam because he tends to stuff things. We got along really well the rest of the night and even went to bed feeling very close to each other, at least I felt close to him. Funny that a fight could do that, ya know. I think it's because he finally expressed his true thoughts and feelings to me rather than just saying, "I got it," so that I'll shut up and leave him alone.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Glad you talked/fought - sometimes getting that stuff out helps clear the air and is so cathartic. Both DH and I tend to stew a bit. Me, because, in the moment I know I will be emotional and I am always afraid of not being taken seriously when I am emotional. (product of having a marine as a dad? or being raised with too much star trek?) DH IDK why he stews. maybe a guy thing?

And I agree, intimacy often helps in the sex department. My sex drive only really feels depressed the first few weeks after the birth. as much because with both my prior births I was terrified of screwing something up (c-section and then 4th degree tear) Then . . . it's pretty much back to usual - as long as I am getting enough sleep. And even then, it's not that I don't want to have sex, it's just that it's not a priority.

I don't know if this always works for everybody, but often I wait to talk about things until we can both be calm - because we are removed from it. like on car rides - it helps that right now those are uninterrupted by kids, bc they are asleep/enteraining themselves in the back - and then to be like, ask, where would be the best place for X to go? I thought about putting in under the VCR, but then nobody can really get to it, or it makes a big mess trying to get it out.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I don't know if this always works for everybody, but often I wait to talk about things until we can both be calm - because we are removed from it. like on car rides - it helps that right now those are uninterrupted by kids, bc they are asleep/enteraining themselves in the back - and then to be like, ask, where would be the best place for X to go? I thought about putting in under the VCR, but then nobody can really get to it, or it makes a big mess trying to get it out.


Well, yes, that would be nice if I hadn't already been doing that for months with his boots and dirty camis and stinky workout clothes and bags and everything else. I get a little annoyed when I talk to him about the same thing over and over and he still does it. It's like he can't apply this situation to that one. He's very specific. Ok, don't stack my boots in front of Kellen's dresser drawers. Got it. But he can't then look around and think, Hmm, maybe I shouldn't put this big, heavy box right in front of the coat closet. Then he gets mad at me for nagging him about every little thing but I'm like, if you would think of it on your own, I wouldn't have to nag you about every little thing. KWIM?

He also went into this whole thing about how the VCR wasn't even plugged in (I didn't have an issue with where the VCR was) and the Wii doesn't even work and no one ever uses either of them, anyway. Ok, so he's here all time and sees what everyone does every minute of every day so he knows that the VCR has NEVER been used by anyone EVER? Has he tried to use the Wii since Ryan said it stopped working to see if it really doesn't work? If he has and it is truly broken, why would he then just put it all back where it was rather than throwing it out? If it's broken, it's trash. He didn't think at all about anyone else's point of view. It was all about his.

It wasn't about him putting the Wii fit board in one corner of the room and me saying that it goes in the other corner. It was about him putting it underneath the VCR so that, if I wanted to use it, I would have to lift up the VCR, which causes the shelf to fall and everything to fall behind it, in order to get the board. Then I have to fix the TV stand shelf and put the VCR back.

Ok, now I've gone off on another rant.







This is a continual issue with him, though. It's the same as him throwing out the rock that Kellen had in his shorts pocket while we were in Williamsburg. Kellen had seen a real, live archeological dig while we were there. He saw grown men digging in the dirty and collecting rocks and things. He decided to start his own collection. It was important to him. DH just saw it as junk and threw it out without even asking. He didn't for one second take Kellen's feelings into consideration. He left bad afterward when he saw Kellen crying but he should have just asked. It doesn't take that much effort.

Or the time he locked up all the tools in the garage before he deployed for a year so that Ryan wouldn't get into them and lose them. I understand that but he didn't tell me he had locked them up and didn't leave me a key so I couldn't get any tools that I needed to do minor repairs. Just not thinking beyond his own POV.

I've told him ad nauseum that equate to not caring to me. That's why I get so hurt and angry when he does stuff like that. If he really, truly cared, he would take the time to at least ask what the rest of us want, think, feel, see, need. He doesn't. He just barrels through with his own agenda that he hasn't even bothered to share with anyone and then is dumbfounded when everyone is upset with him about afterward.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW, do you think he's operating from a place of malice when he does that? I ask because I'm guilty of doing stuff like that in my house and I'm not trying to hurt anyone, I'm actually trying to help. One time I did a deep clean purge in the girls' room because it had gotten to be a safety issue. The next time they came home, H looked everywhere for this gumball machine ring that had been in there. She couldn't find it. I'm sure I threw it away. But it wasn't like I found it, thought it was super special to H and then threw it away. I just got a little overzealous.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> MW, do you think he's operating from a place of malice when he does that?


No, I don't think he does the sort of thing like throwing out Kellen's rock maliciously. I think that's just a matter of not thinking and taking other people into consideration. When it's done repeatedly even after many, many talks about it for many, many years, though, it starts to feel like he doesn't really care what the rest of us think or feel. He's going to do what he wants to do regardless because that's what's most important.

He has done things with Ryan's stuff maliciously. He got angry at Ryan for using his tools so he took all of Ryan's car stereo equipment and put it outside next to the trash can without telling anyone after I had told him not to throw it out and then left for deployment. I didn't find it until several days later when it was trash day.

I am wondering a little if he puts things in my way on purpose. After trying to ignore me for a while about the Wii board he finally yelled that maybe he wouldn't do that if there was somewhere to put things but there's crap everywhere like on top of his dresser. I asked if he would put his boots or the Wii board on top of his dresser if it were clean. He said he would not. Then what do those things have to do with each other? That's a perfect example of him not taking responsibility for his actions. It's all, if I didn't do this, he wouldn't do that. BS!

I got interrupted too many times and now I can't remember everything I was going to post.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Has he always been like this? I know he's been back from deployment a while now, but he has been gone a lot of your marriage - just as much as you are used to doing it all by yourself, he's kind of used to only having to look after himself. Not trying to make excuses for his blind sighted ness, but trying to understand it a little. Is therapy at all possible for you together? It seems as if you need help communicating with one another and could use some tactics that might involve less hurt feelings and stepped on toes.

DH and I have that only to a small extent - we often both have a plan of attack in our heads, but failing to share it with the other (Because we assume the other person just has magically intuited it, or that the plan is the only logical one, and so therefore must've occured to the other) and then both end up in trouble because we were so not on the same page. It's not about not caring. I think he must care, he just sucks at showing it.

At any rate - hugs - and hopefully you can have some more good talks


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Just jumping in - I'm huge on purging. I will toss stuff w/o thinking twice about it and I've had to train myself to think "is he/she going to miss this" before tossing things. DH is a pack rat. It's a problem. I don't think he needs to keep his folders of school work from grade school and cub scouts. I don't think he needs to keep it in the living room either. But no matter how often I tell him to move it/toss it, it ends up gone thru (again) and put somewhere else or back where it was.

I'm with you guys on the sex convo.

I hate feeling guilty when I'm not in the mood, but I do. I guess it's b/c I feel like it would be out of reciprocity and not b/c I'm being bullied or shamed. It's more of a chore for me these days but once I'm into it I do enjoy it.

Actually (TMI probably) but last night we finally did dtd and b/c I have the fertile crazies I had told him earlier in the day DO NOT TRUST ME if I tell him we don't need protection. Well, after 1/2 a bottle of wine apparently I did tell him it was no big deal if we didn't use anything, "I can't get pg while I'm nursing and if we did have another baby whatever!" OMG. He told me that this am and I was like wow, I really cannot be trusted while fertile! Ha!

So anyway - in a nutshell - we talked it all over and hashed it out. He's not as mad about the lack of dtd as I thought. He said it came out all wrong. He is stressed about other things, and feels like we don't have any time for any decent conversations or sexy time. LIke either. I agree. We don't.

I found us a babysitter though that I trust, so soon I'm going to start using her for a few hours here and there so the kids can get used to her (and she can get used to them). Maybe more dates in our future will help him feel less alone. He said he feels lonely.

Nora's bday tomorrow! Have to whip up cupcakes and put together goody bags for her class party. I'm also wading thru all the stuff online trying to find party ideas.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

So, you didn't answer the bigger question: did he remember you were crazy and cover up, or go with the flow, and we will see what happens in a couple weeks???

I am so happy for all the good talks - the planets must be in a good alignment for communication.

And hooray for dates! I wish we could do more. When we lived with DH's parents, it wasn't so big a deal leaving one or both kids, because outside of work, they have no life and do nothing. My parents both work, hard, Dad is in school and has homework, and they also are big into going on bike rides (Goldwing motorcycles) not to mention all the home mainentance and repair they do. so I try not to take advantage of them too much, and DH's parents are on the other side of town. But I did find a baby sitter we like, and might use her for a date night at some point.

I need more sleep. and to get some more work done . . . ugh


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> So, you didn't answer the bigger question: did he remember you were crazy and cover up, or go with the flow, and we will see what happens in a couple weeks???


Oh no he remembered! He said no way and covered up!!









I may not be trustworthy, but he is!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Nora's bday already?! Wow! Happy birthday to her!

Glad you guys talked, Carrie. Sooo...were precautions taken? Maybe that FB post will be prophetic.









Hm, I bet I could ask Ryan's girlfriend to babysit more often and plan some dates with dh.

No, he has not always been like this. Early in our relationship it was all whatever I wanted all the time. He didn't care what, when, where, why or how as long as he was with me. Now he's very passive/aggressive about things. Counseling is a long story.

I agree that probably a lot of it from being deployed and just being gone and not having to think about anyone else but himself. I know he cares. Or at least, I hope he cares. Otherwise, why in the world is he sticking around? But I feel like he doesn't care when he does things like that. It's about being considerate and empathic. If something is important to me, it should be important to those I love. At the very least, they should care because I care. I hate, absolutely despise, professional sports. DH loves the Patriots and the Red Sox. He is a huge fan of both and he loves to watch their games, although he will watch any sports. I know that so I sometimes get him fun things related to those teams. I would never take his Patriots beach towel and throw it out because he left it hanging on the back of a dining room chair for at least a month. I wouldn't pull one of his Marine Corps coins out of his pocket while doing laundry and just toss it because it's just a token, not worth anything. They matter to him. So it really hurts me when he doesn't do the same for me and the boys. It's like he thinks his opinion and his comfort are more important than us. He may care about us but what he wants is the most important.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Oh no he remembered! He said no way and covered up!!
> 
> ...


Oh, oh well. You caused me a little more excitement for the day. teehee


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I would like to have more date nights but I already miss bedtime 5 out of 7 nights and I'm just not willing to give up another one just for a regular dinner out with DH. I'd rather stay home, get Ava to bed and then spend time w/DH watching TV and drinking wine. For special, special occasions, I'm ok w/that but not for just regular nights out.

Baby_Cakes, I can't be trusted when I'm fertile either. The only thing that is keeping me from really going baby crazy is I do not want my milk supply to dry up before Ava is done w/mama milk. And based on how my supply drops when AF arrives, I know it would drop drastically quickly after getting pregnant. So I don't want that to happen. But seriously, I look at Ava and I think she is just the most amazing creature ever and I want to make more just like her!

She did ok with the new babysitter today. I was worried sick, I cried most of the way to work because I was so worried that she was upset and we weren't there to comfort her. She didn't cry when I left but she was very nervous. She wanted to play with the other kids though. And she asked to get out of my arms and play so it wasn't like I had to pry her off me. DH said she was ok when he got there.

The last two nights sleep-wise have been just heavenly. Ava's sleep has all of a sudden just gotten better. Like that. Nothing I did to affect it other than making sure she eats something with a lot of fat and a lot of protein right before bed. She's not taking in as much milk overnight. It's wonderful! I'm still getting up around 4 AM to pump because if I don't, I'm a wreck when we wake up at 8:30ish and I haven't pumped for 7+ hrs. I can't think because I'm in so much pain. I'd much rather miss 30 mins of sleep and wake up with a clear head.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ I'm so glad she did so well. And, yay on the sleep, too.









We won't miss bedtime even if we go out so that's not an issue here. I've asked Ryan's girlfriend and she said she would babysit when she can. I told her only once maybe rarely twice a month.

My contract with Verizon is up on the 7th. I'm switching back to AT&T and am trying to decide what smartphone to get, an iPhone or a Samsung Galaxy SIII. I've pretty much decided on the Samsung unless someone can really sell me on the iPhone.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Oh, oh well. You caused me a little more excitement for the day. teehee












Sorry! I didn't even realize I wasn't clear!! Ha!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I would like to have more date nights but I already miss bedtime 5 out of 7 nights and I'm just not willing to give up another one just for a regular dinner out with DH. I'd rather stay home, get Ava to bed and then spend time w/DH watching TV and drinking wine. For special, special occasions, I'm ok w/that but not for just regular nights out.
> 
> ...


Yayyy for sleep!

I'm glad she did ok with the b/s! That's huge! I'm sorry you were a wreck -- but I totally get it. I'm the same exact way!!!

I worry about the milk thing too. I know you have an extra stress b/c you're pumping. But yes, I feel the same! That -- and just, Idk. I know what I can handle mentally and another baby right now with my marriage being how it is just wouldn't be ideal.

Date nights -- ours are usually more like Sunday afternoons. I'm not ready to leave Finn at bedtime yet b/c he still nurses down. Chris has never put him to bed. It's always me and I don't mind it. So for now (and not recently) we stay close, maybe go to a matinee and out to lunch locally. It's nice. That's all I need. I'm not ready even to to go the city. Manhattan is too far for me to leave Finn. I know, it might be crazy. But I just can't do it yet!!

AFM - O pains are serious today! OMG I feel like my ovary is going to freaking explode. I took some advil and a bottle of wine.









I can't believe I put my 3 year old to bed for the last time tonight. Sniff, sniff. How is she already 4?!? I remember labor with her like it was yesterday. It really does go by so fast. She is so excited for her bday tmw. I took a bunch of cute pics of her today outside, can't wait to get them posted/printed up.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> What are everyone's plans for halloween? do you do anything?
> 
> We have boo at the zoo, then trick or treating with friends, and at least one halloween party. Busy, busy times, but lots of use out of costumes!


That's fun!!

I have my costume but the kids haven't come up with anything yet. I bet Nora will be a princess and I bet I will cave and get the Woody costume from Disney for Finn.

nora's school is having Trunk or Treat and I'm thinking it might be smart. She is seriously FREAKED by scary halloween stuff. She had a panic attack in Target the other day b/c we walked by masks and things. I don't think going around will be good for her unless we do it fast and just on our block. We'll see. We can always try and if she gets scared head back.

I thought about having her bday party on the 20th be a costume party. But. No kids are really coming so that's really lame!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Annie ~ I'm so glad she did so well. And, yay on the sleep, too.
> 
> ...


I just got the Galaxy S III! I love it. It's so snappy and works great. I love it! I should have let you play with it at williamsburg!!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

OMG, 4 yrs old! I can't even imagine Ava as a 4 yr old. No way! Can't wait to see pics of the princess party. My 3 yr old niece's b-day party was a princess party.

If we had the money and I could convince DH, I would have us dress us as DH as Mario, me as Princess Peach and Ava as Toad.







I'm going to take her to Walmart and see what she likes. I kind of want to find a Yoda costume for her. But the smallest one I saw online was a 2T. She liked the bumblebee costume we saw in TRU so maybe they will have one of those at Walmart.

I think the Galaxy S III has more features, right?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I love my iPhone, and can't imagine switching to the droid platform. My parents just got the iPhone 5, but they also have a galaxy tablet, and I don't like the interface as much. I think the iphone is just so easy and intuitive to use. But that's me.

Bedtime: DH is doing it now with Norah, she goes down faster for him, and easier. She barely is waking once a night the last week to nurse, which is fantastic. she gets a fruit pouch right before bed, and that seems to help. If that's all she is going to want to nurse, I can keep that up the rest of the pregnancy if need be; I wake that often at least to pee. It's when she was wanting to nurse every hour or two for 1/2 hour or more that it was driving me nuts.

I am so sleepy. We went out for wings last night, service was horrible. i got chicken pieces stuck in my teeth, which because I fell asleep before I could floss, meant they bothered my gums and I woke up at 3 a.m. in pain. flossed, rinsed, brushed, even broke down and took some tylenol. It still hurts. UGH. If we had oragel in the house I'd use it.

Annie - Glad Ava is doing so well! She is an amazing little person! and I totally understand not wanting to miss bedtime if the majority of the week you do. I'd do an afternoon instead if that were the case.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Lauri, our target has a baby yoda! If you don't find anything else I can pick it up for you and send it to you! That's super cute.

OMG. So. Of course. I woke up at 3 am to the sound of Nora crying for me. WTF? This girl NEVER wakes up. Finn was sound asleep like a freaking rock next to me -- he had slept since 9 in bed on his own (9-3?!? UM, HELL YES baby! Keep it up!) and Nora had me up for AN HOUR. Whyyyyyy!? Then Finn finally did wake up at 4 and didn't go right back to sleep with nursing. THEN he woke for the day at 6!? I didn't have to get up til 7. Wah. Whine. Bitch. I finally just shoved him over to his side of the bed gave him his giraffe, and put the covers over him and firmly told him to go back to sleep. I don't know if he did. I did. I need coffee! I didn't need zombie status today -- I have so much to do!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ Have you searched online for those costumes? I've found cheap costumes that way.

I'm going to be a medieval zombie queen. It's the costume I bought last year before Ethan decided we should all be superheros. I like to be something scary so I'm going to try to do zombie make up. Ethan had initially said he wanted to be a zombie but has changed his mind and decided to be a Marine so we'll go to the Exchange and get him some real camis. Kellen said he wants to be Wolverine again. Easy since we have that costume from last year.







I dug out all the baby Halloween costumes Sunday to see what we have. Dylan will be either a devil or a lion, depending on what fits best.

We'll go around our neighborhood like we always do. Apparently, our neighborhood is very popular for trick-or-treating. Kids are bused in.







Not really but Ryan says families do drive over here from other neighborhoods and I see the cars stopping everything couple of houses to load and unload kids. It's funny but kind of dangerous, too, I think. I don't like the cars when so many kids are out walking and so excited about Halloween that they can't help but dart into the street. At least I've never seen anyone go fast. There are a couple of people in my neighborhood who do really fun, scary haunted house type decorations. The boys have a lot of fun with that. Ethan likes to prove he's not scared by starting the guys down. DH is working with one of them this year but I've never met him.

I know what you all mean about leaving your babies. I cried at the bus stop when Ryan went off to kindergarten. I don't mind leaving D at night. For one, we stay up late so it's very likely he'd still be up when we got back. If he does fall asleep, he'll do it pretty easily because he's truly tired. He has fallen asleep easily with dh, Ryan, his girlfriend and my mother by accident so I'm not worried about that, either. We'd only be gone for 2-3 hours, though, so we wouldn't miss much.

I read a bunch of stuff online about the phones yesterday and I played with Trish's (Ryan's GF) iPhone and Ryan's Galaxy SIII. I think it's really a draw between the iPhone and the Galaxy. It depends a lot on personal preference. The Galaxy is more customizable but the iPhone is easier if you want something you can just pick up and use without a lot of fiddling, at least that's what the reviewers said. The only thing I don't like about the Galaxy is how big it is for talking on the phone. It looks kind of silly. The iPhone is smaller. But part of the reason I want a smartphone is so the kids can play games and watch videos and such so a bigger screen is better. I don't talk on the phone much anymore, either. Mostly, I text. I walked around the house talking to dh on Ryan's phone and it wasn't so bad.









I also got this new laptop with a larger screen and a dedicated fancy graphics card and CPU speed for game playing and video watching. DH is a little miffed that I spent a little more but it's worth it to me so that everyone can use it without the screen freezing up and going black.

Remember a while back we were talking about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and whether or not we pretend about those things with our kids. I think it was here. Ethan asked me last night if the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny and Santa Claus were real. I asked if he wanted them to be real. He said he just wanted the truth, so I told him. DH got all pissy with me for doing that. He thinks I ruined things. I'm not going to continue to blatantly lie to my child if he sincerely asks for the truth. Ethan even thanked me for being honest with him.







DH can be such a dolt sometimes.

I think there was something else but it's gone now. Oh well. I'm up way too early this morning.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

next year maybe we can do darth vader (or luke skywalker), princess Leia, and baby yoda  or we can be the incredibles.

I am torn. I really want the kids to be Ms. Piggy and Kermit the Frog, but the way I need to budget for costumes, it will be simpler if I can just pick something up from Target, so they might be garden gnomes instead. LOL

I don't ever really talk on the phone, as in hold it to my ear. I almost always use speaker. I really like the size of the iphone, and the iphone 5 isn't too big. Mostly just miffed that they changed the plug, but oh well.

Carrie - that's a bummer about the wake ups. How's Chris's job?

I think we might be close to being ready to leaving Norah for part of the night at least . . . we'll see.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

That reminds me, I meant to ask Annie (and anyone who does this, Kat) what you give your babies for a bedtime snack. I like the idea of a protein/fat snack but what? I guess cheese or peanut butter. D likes cheese sometimes. Not such a fan of peanut butter. Maybe a hard boiled egg but that's hit or miss with him. He doesn't seem to like the yolk. All my kids have gone through that. Ethan just got back to where he will eat some of the yolk if it's fried. Otherwise, it has to be scrambled. I guess I could do scrambled eggs but that would require actually cooking, which I seriously doubt will happen.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Have you tried any other nut-butters? sun butter or nutella? on a piece of toast, or really what I should do with Norah, as a roll up on a tortilla (less messy than bread) Norah doesn't turn down anything. Yogurt maybe? If it's already cooked, shredded chicken or hummus?

We do a fruit and veggie pouch, because it convienent and not messy, or a banana. I should do something with more protien, but all the bean pouches the kids have tried are disgusting.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

to me, none of those are high in protein except the chicken, although they do have the fat in them except the chicken, again. we have nutella. that's mainly sugar, i think.







i've been meaning to try sunbutter since i think dh can eat that for his paleo. keep forgetting to put it on the list. dh buys only what's on the list.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Ok, quick google comparison:

Nutella is a ton of carbs - 23grams with only 2 grams of protein. (I myself have never tried it, so had no clue)

Sunbutter classic has only 7 grams of carbs and a whole 7 grams of protein.

Hummus (traditional tribe brand hummus) has 4 grams of carbs and 2 grams of protein.

Plain full fat yobaby yogurt has 6 grams of carbs and 4 grams of protein.

So, I would totally rule out Nutella, hehe, but all of the others seem like reasonable options.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I usually just scramble up an egg really quick. I've gotten so used to it that it doesn't take long. Cheese melted on a piece of bread or a grilled cheese or sometimes I just take a piece of bread, slather it in butter and put a piece of cheese on it. Holdover from my six months in Norway! If all else fails, half a Z-bar, those chocolate things the boys were sharing with Ava the first night we were in Williamsburg.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ava just pointed to our bed and signed milk! Guess she's ready for a nap!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Go Ava!

things I am going to miss as Gabe gets older: having a cooperative diaper change baby. He's awesome. Lays still, comes when asked. Naps. he just gets his blankey (any fuzzy one will do) finds a comfy spot and goes to sleep. Norah runs from diaper changes and fights naptime with a passion. Maybe that will change soon.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Guess it's a holdover from my bodybuilding days but anything less than 20 grams of protein per serving is low to me. I really need to get it in my head that kids don't need that much. I still consider the yogurt low. I wouldn't even consider that a source of protein. Maybe the other ones that are 6-7 grams would be sufficient.

Wow, Ava, is so smart!

We had homeschool bowling today and I'm exhausted from it. It's really hard for me to handle all the noise and commotion that comes with 10+ kids indoors.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

20+ grams of protein is needed when lifting but not for your average kid or grownup. I aim for things with 7-10 grams of protein if I'm trying to push protein. The icelandic yogurt I ate in early pregnancy had 14 grams per serving.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

for example, the yogurt with 4 grams of protien says that's 29% of the daily value, for a bedtime snack to have nearly a 1/3 of your daily protein needs isn't bad. a piece of chicken would probably be all the protien he'd need for the whole day.

Not that I think you need to limit protein. You could have some chicken salad made up and that would add fat from the mayo or cream cheese or whatever you use as a binding/creamy factor.

I miss bowling. Gabe would probably have blast.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, I know 20+ grams is more than a kid needs at one meal or snack. I need to get over that. However, I do think the RDA is low. I think closer to 50% of daily calories is better.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

OMG, I was just on the Target site looking for the infant Yoda costume and I saw the garden gnome outfit...I love it! That may be Ava's costume! I need to check my local Target to see if they have it. If not, we're going to my sister's house in MD this weekend so I can check her's as well.

akind1, I never answered you about Ava and PT/OT. She hasn't been evaluated again since she was checked at 7/8 months and identified as 25% delayed. That was mostly in her gross motor skills though. She's always been very good with the fine motor skills and bringing her arms and hands to midline so OT has never been concerned. There's such a backlog in our local area because funding was cut so when they called me the last time, I said I was ok with where she is for now and took her name off the waiting list. I was watching her play today and she can lift her left leg and lead with that leg when climbing on to her toy car or something like that, she just prefers her right leg when climbing stairs. I think. I need to watch her when we go to the library again. Other than her small stature, she doesn't really strike me as being physically delayed any longer. She isn't walking yet but DSD 13 didn't start walking until she was 15 months so it's not outside of the realm of "normal" for this sibling group.

I tried her size 3-9 month Bobux on her yesterday and they are actually almost the right size now. She loves them. As soon as she woke up this morning, she started pointing to go out of the bedroom and when I carried her out, she pointed to her shoes on the table. I thought she just wanted to hold them but when I put her down on the floor, she lifted up her foot and handed me one of the shoes. So she spent most of the morning in just her diaper and shoes.







That kid cracks me up!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Holy mackerel - 20 g in a sitting is a LOT. I aim for more like 4-6 or so. Hummus, builder bar, peanut butter, etc. I avoid bananas before bed b/c they give bad dreams. But I'll do pb or avocado, or hummus. Nora often asks for a spoonful of pb before bed and a glass of soymilk.

Our protein shakes alone are only like 40 g for the whole thing - 1 c soymilk and a scoop of protein powder ( plus I add greens) -- so that's a lot. I don't pay enough attn nowadays, but when I was pg I aimed for 100 g a day. I rarely made it.

Nora had a great bday. She loved her gifts and had a great day. I didn't stress at all so I had fun too! Gma and Gpa and Uncle Ryan came over this evening with a few gifts and it was great. I can't even get my head around the fact that I have now a 1 yr old and a 4 yr old!!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Busy day. Brain fried. Good, but fried. I had more I wanted to say, but now my mind just feels blank! lol

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I love my iPhone, and can't imagine switching to the droid platform. My parents just got the iPhone 5, but they also have a galaxy tablet, and I don't like the interface as much. I think the iphone is just so easy and intuitive to use. But that's me.


That's pretty much why I went with the iphone- I was used to the platform after using the ipod, and was comfortable with it. I didn't want to try to learn all the little idiosyncrises of a new phone.

Tenley needs more protein and fats, but we can't seem to get her to eat enough. She'll dabble here and there, but not enough to really fill her belly. I know it's normal, but I can't wait for her to kind of work her way over that hump where she decides that yes! Food is good! Eats all the food! lol

Glad to hear there's been good sleeps lately!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Soooo I gave Tenley like 1/3 of a calms forte tablet at bed because she was having trouble settling.... She been sleeping almost two hours now. That --never-- happens at the start of the night! I even went in to check if she was still breathing! I wonder how long she'll sleep for... Usually at the start of the night, for the first maybe 2 hours ish, she wakes every half hour or so. So for her not to wake at all in those two hours is crazzzzzy!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onetwoten*
> 
> Soooo I gave Tenley like 1/3 of a calms forte tablet at bed because she was having trouble settling.... She been sleeping almost two hours now. That --never-- happens at the start of the night! I even went in to check if she was still breathing! I wonder how long she'll sleep for... Usually at the start of the night, for the first maybe 2 hours ish, she wakes every half hour or so. So for her not to wake at all in those two hours is crazzzzzy!


That's awesome!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Hooray for sleep! IDK if it's easier now that Norah is pretty much all on solids. I mean, with Gabe at this age, if he was hungry, I just pulled out a boob, and voila. No thinking. Now I gotta think, hmmm. how many bananas have you already eaten today? what else do I have to feed you? will that be enough? and packing snacks for when we will be out. On one hand, it's freeing. I can wear normal bras and clothes that are non-nursing friendly. OTOH, it's a struggle to remember all that stuff, and then off course, we have to buy it, where breast milk is free. It's crazy how much bananas we go through a week. I think the kids ate at least 6 bananas between them yesterday. *sigh* forgot to turn on my alarm last night, and Norah slept well, ergo, I overslept. Oh well.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I get what you mean about it not necessarily being easier or harder. It's just... different. It was nice being able to go out and not worry if we brought anything-- because I -HAD- her food! Now I'm like ok, gotta grab some sort of snack... and it probably shouldn't always be cheerios! So then I'm trying to find healthy, portable things. On the other hand-- we bus a lot, and I -hate- nursing on the bus. It's just SO awkward, so it's nice that she's now eating solids enough that if I can tell she wants to nurse and is getting fussy, then I'll just pull out one of her snacks and distract her with that until we get somewhere.

Oh, and I would LOVE to not have to wear nursing clothes anymore. It sounds so silly, but that's my only sadness with full term nursing. I can't wait to get back into my clothes. Of course, I know that as she gets older and nurses less, I will be able ot wear more and more of them, we're getting there. Just not there yet. The last few weeks when we've been doing more outings we've had a handful of times where we've been out and I've gone 4 hours or more without nursing. She makes up for it when we get home, but at least I"m not worried about the logistics of it while we're out, you know?

Yay for sleeping... but.. boo on oversleeping! lol

So... Ten slept that first stretch for 2.5 hours, and then another 2 hours, and then she went between 45minutes to 2 hours for the rest of the night. Not bad! It's an improvement over every hour all night long. I like... had dreams last night! lol. That means I actually fell asleep long enough for my brain to hit that sleep stage! lol


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Wow, you'll have to kmp about whether or not that Calms Forte continues to work. I got some for K but it didn't seem to help. He's settling and falling asleep a lot more easily these days so I don't feel the need for it anymore.

Just something to keep in mind (if it matters), if you offer snacks when you know baby wants to nurse, you are essentially actively weaning her.

My kids don't like bananas! What's up with that? I guess I shouldn't be too surprised because I don't like bananas but I thought all kids, or at least babies, liked them.









I'm finally get a day to do some things around the house. DH still hasn't finished putting away the stuff he said he'd put away Sunday.







The backyard is such a mess that I can't let D out there anymore. It's not safe and it's ridiculous for me to chase him around and constantly pull him away from this and that, not to mention that one gate and one section of fence have completely fallen off. I told dh I want him to clean it all up and fix it before he leaves for the rest of the month.

I'm going to try to clean the downstairs bathroom and playroom today.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I will! She's down for her nap right now, which averages 30 minutes. She fussed herself to sleep, since I was rocking and cuddling her (after nursing) and she kept pushign away from me and couldn't be comfy, so I put her in her crib to play around for a bit, while I sat in the rocker and read. It took maybe 20 minutes after I put her down (so like 35 total), but she fell asleep cuddled into her blanket. It's been an hour now...

I'm not really worried about it being 'actively weaning' her since it only happens when we're on the bus or in the middle of grocery shopping or something. If we're at home, or out somewhere where we have the opportunity, then obviously she nurses whenever she asks. She's actually getting better about signing for it again, which is nice! She used to, and then decided she would just cry instead. So the 'words' are nice again!

Yay for cleaning days! Once Ten gets up we're going to find lunch, and then I'm going to put her in the Boba and try to get some tidying done. Tonight DH should be able to do the final sanding on the laundry room, and then -in theory- be able to prime tomorrow!! I'm so freaking excited!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Just popping in for a min - JJ have you tried the baby gorilla position for nursing on the bus? It saves my life out and about! You put them on your lap sitting facing you. You're totally covered and it works for buses, planes, trains, stadium seats, etc!

I don't think setting limits out in public is the same as weaning. They're getting into toddlerhood now, and sometimes it isn't as convenient or necessary when a solid snack will also work to hold them over.

I don't want to jinx it but I got sleep last night! And he took a solid 3 hour nap again today. That's like a week of 3 hour naps and pretty ok sleep for him! I will enjoy it while it lasts. LOL. We also have a molar (did I say that here already??)! One has cut thru and the rest are bulging just below. Molars can take a long time so I'm in for it!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

[quote name="Baby_Cakes" url="/community/t/1364692/october-2012-rockstar-mamas/40#post_17130094"I don't think setting limits out in public is the same as weaning. They're getting into toddlerhood now, and sometimes it isn't as convenient or necessary when a solid snack will also work to hold them over.[/quote]

Well, that's why I wanted to point that out. It is weaning whether anyone wants it to be or not. I didn't meant to actively wean Ryan but I did by giving him solids before or in place of nursing sometimes. It didn't occur to me that that was weaning because that wasn't my goal. KWIM?

Technically, as soon as you start offering solids you are starting the weaning process. Anytime that you substitute solid food for nursing, you are actively weaning. That's why it's important to offer nursing before solid food if you don't want baby to wean too early. I'm not making a judgment on it one way or another. That's just how it works.

Now that I'm thinking of it, maybe I should try giving some of that Calms Forte to Dylan. He is hard to settle down most nights. Last night he wanted to crawl all over the bed flopping on and smacking everyone, even poor Kellen who was sleeping. (I still can't get over that he's the one who's asleep first these days.)


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Just popping in for a min - JJ have you tried the baby gorilla position for nursing on the bus? It saves my life out and about! You put them on your lap sitting facing you. You're totally covered and it works for buses, planes, trains, stadium seats, etc!
> 
> ...


I have, it worked ok this summer, but more often now the problem is that I'm cold, so I'm in layers of clothing, so I'm trying to pull up or down like 4 layers, plus I've usually still got the carrier on, so then I've got to unbuckle that, but still try to keep it on the seat, and then balance myself and all our layers, the diaper bag, and Tenley as she randomly pops on and off making faces at everyone on the bus. lol. Between trying to reach the boob through the layers, and keep track of our stuff, it's hectic! Thankfully we're usually on our way to a LLL meeting or something equally baby focused, so once we get there, I can strip off layers, drop our things and have a good nurse.

Hour and 15m morning nap today. Was so nice! And then a 15 minute pm nap. LOL Oh well, I guess it evens out!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh I get what you are saying now. Yes! Agreed!

Honestly I think that's how my friend's 17 mo old ended up weaning entirely. By 12 mo she was only nursing before bed and in the am. By 18 mo she was completely done. But that's what happens when you stop offering or when you don't make a it a point to continue offering milk even when they seem satisfied with solids. There are so many benefits to bm besides a full tummy. It's so worth it IMO to keep going!!

I get panicky when I realize it's been awhile since I nursed Finn. I am in complete denial about him ever weaning.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I'm still mostly in maternity clothes.







But after seeing the pics of me, MW and Baby_Cakes in Williamsburg, I really need to stop wearing them. It looks awful. Too cheap to buy new stuff though. Will have to raid my DSDs room again and see what I can find.

AF is here. And I want to curl up in a ball and die. The cramps this cycle have been AWFUL.

Drop-off at the babysitter today was not fun. I asked Ava this morning if she had fun playing with the other kids and she looked me right in the eye and said "No".







That's the first time she's ever even said that word and she used it very specifically. I didn't react, I just said "Oh, well I thought you would have had fun playing with the other kids?" and she said it again. "No." So when it was time to go over, I was watching her while we walked to the neighbor's house and I could tell she was nervous but she wasn't stressed, you know? She wasn't clinging to me or anything. When we got there, the babysitter tried to take her out of my arms and she didn't like that. So I just said calmly, let's sit down and play for a bit. And she started playing and rolling a ball to the babysitter. She wanted to sit on the ride on toy and I got her situated on that and then I told her I loved her and I would see her tonight. I left and she was screaming. Oh and the other thing is that she can see our house from their living room and the babysitter said she kept going to the door, pointing to our house and saying "Mama, Mama".







Times like this, I HATE GOING TO WORK! Needing insurance sucks my butt! But I talked to DH after he picked her up and he said when he got there, she was having a blast and didn't want to leave with him. So she must have settled down. We'll see how she does on Monday.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ FWIW, that's a normal reaction. That probably doesn't make you feel any better but at least she's not overly upset by it. And, I didn't think you looked bad. I still wear maternity clothes sometimes. I'm too cheap to buy myself a whole new wardrobe, also. Since I've been through this a few times before, though, I do have some graduated sizes of clothes. I just had to pull my larger jeans out again because the smaller ones I had been fitting in are too tight again.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I know it's a reasonable response, I just hate putting her in that position. I've never been one to subscribe to the theory that with enough exposure, the kid will get used to it and stop crying. That may be the case but I'd rather stop, wait for a different level of maturity and then try again. Car rides are a good example. When Ava went through her car-hating phase, I just stopped going places with her unless they were absolutely necessary such as dr/hospital visits or going to the babysitter when I had to go to work. Once she got a bit older, she was fine again in the car. I also hate that if I chose not to work (because let's face it, there's always the choice to do that), the consequence would be harmful from a variety of standpoints.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Bad drop offs are the worst. I'm with you, Lauri, I'd also rather wait till the timing is right and the maturity is there. But sometimes we don't have that choice, really, so we make the best of a bad situation.
Ava is so smart and sensitive. I bet if you started reading her some books, like Llama Llama misses mama, and I Love You All Day Long, she would understand. We also like The Kissing Hand. They really helped us with Noras transition to preschool.

I've put on a few inches of chub. I need to get serious about eating better. I just really love to eat. I need to snap out of it!!

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I bet if you started reading her some books, like Llama Llama misses mama, and I Love You All Day Long, she would understand. We also like The Kissing Hand. They really helped us with Noras transition to preschool.


Oooh, I'll have to look for some of those. I bet that would help. I've been talking to her about it the last couple of days reminding her that she's going to play with the other kids for a little while and then Dada is going to pick her up. She's just nervous. It would probably be easier if I was doing the pickup too because then she would have me not only leave but come back. As it is now, she just sees me leave and then I show up again in the middle of the night. The night before last, she woke up around 4 AM and said "Mom?". I answered her and said I was here and she flopped over for snuggles. Gawd, I love that girl!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, Annie, I agree. But, like Carrie said, sometimes you don't have a choice.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Oh I get what you are saying now. Yes! Agreed!
> 
> ...


Yikes! I can't imagine only nursing twice a day by 12 months! On days we're home, I'd say between 8am to 8pm, we probably nurse like... 8 times? She doesn't nurse for very long because she gets distracted, so I find more often than not, I'm the one just picking her up and nursing her, without her actually asking. And at night... geeze. At night she nurses probably another 8 times or more in those 12 hours. It seems crazy to imagine her not needing to nurse.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I'm still mostly in maternity clothes.
> 
> ...


I'm wearing probably 50% mat clothes, mostly because the shape of them make them easier to nurse in, than the form fitting non-mat clothes I have. I think sometime in the next few weeks though I need to head to value village and work on getting some easier access nursing winter wear.

Oh Annie. I can't imagine that decision. Or lack of decision really. I'm so sorry.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ethical question. I've pretty much decided to just skip Ava's 15 month WBV. We just saw her pedi last week when she had the crazy virus. I'm not doing any of the "15 month shots". I'm not concerned about her development. I'm not giving her the flu shot. But here's the problem. I kind of don't want to tell DH that I'm skipping the 15 month visit. He hasn't asked. I don't even think he knows that she's supposed to have a 15 month visit. But I don't feel like going in to all the reasons why I don't want to give Ava the variacella, MMR, Hep A or influenza shots. So I don't even want to point out to him that we're skipping it, you know? On the other hand, it makes me vaguely uncomfortable from a cardiac standpoint to not have eyes on her every couple of months. Next cardiac appt is Dec. Give it to me straight ladies.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Annie: I see no reason to go see the ped for a "check up" if she was just there last week. I also don't see any harm in just not mentioning to your DH about the visit. If he asks when her next appointment is, say December. (which would be a "couple of months" from her last doctor visit - Late september to December is just over 2 months) If he asks about what shots she's getting next, I would be honest, and say, probably none for now. Didn't she have a bit of reaction last time? DH is far more on board with no shots than I am. I see circumstances in which the benefits might outweigh the risk; he doesn't. (I don't think we are likely to fall into a situation where we would, but I can see how for some people, they feel its the best choice). With this next baby, I really wouldn't mind doing more WBV. At least newborn, 6 months, and then yearly. We just got lazy with Norah. I like the extra set of eyes and I really like the pedeatrician we found. Weaning: obviously we have actively early weaned, but it was a necessity. I just haven't made enough milk for her to even come close to 50% of what she needs per day since becoming pregnant. She is still nursing for a few minutes in the middle of the night, and once in a while for nap time during the day. I don't think I'm making more than just a little bit now, which is to be expected by this point in pregnancy - 18 weeks. I am shocked we have made it this far, honestly. We'll keep doing the night nursing as long as she wants it, especially now that it's only once or twice and very brief. (I need my sleep). If it weren't for pregnancy, I would love to nurse until age 2. and definitely more fully for the first year. This next baby will get all he or she wants of it, at last! Clothes: most of my tops are ones I can wear whether or not I'm pregnant, so they kind of look like maternity wear, regardless. I'm not in maternity jeans and pants yet, but likely will be by months end. Annie: don't beat yourself up about how you look. Have you tried thrift stores, etc, for clothes? A couple fresh pieces can make all the difference. Carrie: loving food and eating is not a bad thing. Heck, you love to eat more healthy stuff than most people. Just maybe ease up on the indulgences a bit, eh? (Says the woman who pregnant or not feels entitled to ice cream every night if it's in the house) Norah is sleeping so much better! Hallelujah! naps suck for DH sometimes, especially with Gabe. I think he's not getting enough physical stimulation to get tired. Need to work on that. He's not ready to give up his nap, because he inevitably passes out during the day for a couple hours - it's not like we put him down for a nap, you know?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

NIP would be so much easier if we weren't so worried about exposing ourselves. I'm guilty of that, too. I try to keep myself as covered as possible. I'm not comfortable exposing my entire breast to nurse. But, I find myself more and more just not caring if I am exposed because I've got too much other stuff going on to worry about some stranger seeing my nipple. If they don't like it, they shouldn't be looking.









I have found the newer nursing clothes to be a waste of money. I thought the empire style tops would be a lot nicer to use than the ones that have two full layers in the front but I don't like them. I feel too exposed in them because of the slits in the layer underneath. I don't wear them anymore. The nursing tanks are a good investment because the keep my belly covered under any regular top except that I don't think to put one on until after I've got my regular bra and shirt on because I generally don't like to wear layers. Then I don't feel like changing.









Annie ~ I think if you aren't concerned about anything at the moment, it's ok to skip the check-up.

We have homeschool park day today and then dental appointments for the boys. Not sure if we'll make it to the park. I'm freakin' sick again! I don't feel too bad but I also don't feel like doing much.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> Carrie: loving food and eating is not a bad thing. Heck, you love to eat more healthy stuff than most people. Just maybe ease up on the indulgences a bit, eh? (Says the woman who pregnant or not feels entitled to ice cream every night if it's in the house)


My downfall is chips. Somehow I have 3 opened bags of chips in the cabinet. I just love them too too much!

And I need to get back to working out. I've been so tired it falls off my radar.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Ethical question. I've pretty much decided to just skip Ava's 15 month WBV. We just saw her pedi last week when she had the crazy virus. I'm not doing any of the "15 month shots". I'm not concerned about her development. I'm not giving her the flu shot. But here's the problem. I kind of don't want to tell DH that I'm skipping the 15 month visit. He hasn't asked. I don't even think he knows that she's supposed to have a 15 month visit. But I don't feel like going in to all the reasons why I don't want to give Ava the variacella, MMR, Hep A or influenza shots. So I don't even want to point out to him that we're skipping it, you know? On the other hand, it makes me vaguely uncomfortable from a cardiac standpoint to not have eyes on her every couple of months. Next cardiac appt is Dec. Give it to me straight ladies.


I'll say it's worth saying to DH that you don't feel it's necessary to take her in so soon after her last visit. A lie by omission is still a lie IMHO.

I'm the opposite though. I wouldn't feel I need to justify all my reasons not to do XYZ shots. Instead, I say to him if you want the baby to get them, convince me. Convince me he needs them right now vs waiting. Tell him he needs to go into all the reasons he wants to give Ava those vaccines. Each time I've done that, Chris just defaults to what I've decided.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> NIP would be so much easier if we weren't so worried about exposing ourselves. I'm guilty of that, too. I try to keep myself as covered as possible. I'm not comfortable exposing my entire breast to nurse. But, I find myself more and more just not caring if I am exposed because I've got too much other stuff going on to worry about some stranger seeing my nipple. If they don't like it, they shouldn't be looking.


Exactly.

I was just saying to a friend the other day that I NIP all the time and I've never had any issues with strangers saying anything. Family says more things or acts more bothered than anyone ever has out in public. Which is annoying.

TBH I get more uncomfortable about my tummy or muffin top showing than boobage. To me they are just boobs. Women and girls wear lower cut shirts and have more hanging out than I ever do while nursing, so that I don't feel odd about. And I suppose I should feel the same about a little tummy skin showing since man, girls these days wear things so high cut and belly baring even when they shouldn't, lol!

AFM - I'm going out to dinner tonight and DH is watching the kids and putting them to bed! He's never done it. It's time.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onetwoten*
> 
> Yikes! I can't imagine only nursing twice a day by 12 months! On days we're home, I'd say between 8am to 8pm, we probably nurse like... 8 times? She doesn't nurse for very long because she gets distracted, so I find more often than not, I'm the one just picking her up and nursing her, without her actually asking. And at night... geeze. At night she nurses probably another 8 times or more in those 12 hours. It seems crazy to imagine her not needing to nurse.


I should also point out that many decisions she made aren't what I would do or feel comfortable with. She chose to night wean at 6 months like the dr said to, and CIO at 8 mo. So. It's all part of how you decide to parent.

It does seem completely crazy to me! She asked me when C was 10 months if she needed to worry about her solids and I told her it's ok b/c before 1 they're just for fun -- as long as she's still getting most her nutrition from bm. She was like, oh no way, she's only nursing maybe 2 times a day at most. I was baffled. I had to tell her I didn't know what to say b/c that's never been my experience.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: hooray for dinner out! I really don't like exposing a lot of skin, so I try to be discreet, and yes, family more than strangers seem bothered. WTF? Now, if I am in just a bunch of mom friends who also nurse, we whip out our boobs like it's NBD, because it's not. That said, I can't remember the last time I nursed Norah in public. It's been that long. Carrie: I can't imagine weaning that early on purpose. With Gabe, he was barely eating solids at this age. He didn't really actively eat more until around 14 months. (and then I got pregnant, and milk dried up and he weaned . . .) Now that I know how to nurse in every carrier I own, nursing discreetely is a lot easier and more convienent. I don't have to find a place to sit down! hooray! though I can't do it and push a cart. Might need to add that skill with the next squish.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I'll say it's worth saying to DH that you don't feel it's necessary to take her in so soon after her last visit. A lie by omission is still a lie IMHO.
> I'm the opposite though. I wouldn't feel I need to justify all my reasons not to do XYZ shots. Instead, I say to him if you want the baby to get them, convince me. Convince me he needs them right now vs waiting. Tell him he needs to go into all the reasons he wants to give Ava those vaccines.


I agree with this but couldn't figure out how to write it out earlier. I would tell my dh that I'm not taking the kids to the doctor. If he objects, he needs to give me thoughtful, factual reasons why they need to be seen. Until he can do that, we won't be going. He has never been able to do that and now is beginning to agree with me on it all, I think.

I don't like showing my belly, either. That's why I like the nursing tanks better, if I'd ever remember to wear the darn things! I think the other issue I have with actually wearing the nursing tanks is that they feel more like shirts than bras to me so I feel like I should wear a clean one every day, whereas I'll wear the same bra every day for a week before washing it.

DH watched the kids last night while I went to my neighbor's house to knit. It was nice. I came home around 10:30. DH was watching the debate and had no idea where Dylan was.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

LOL! Glad you are getting some kid-free time! I think it would be best to tell him, but I'd also try to not make a big deal out of it. Nursing tanks aren't supportive enough for me, so I wear usual camis and a regular nursing bra.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Blast. I knew I was going to have to talk to him about it. I agree, a lie of omission is still a lie. I wish he were going with me to my sister's house this weekend because then we would have plenty of time to discuss while driving. Ah well. I'll catch up with him about it Sunday night when we get home.

I'm seriously LOVING this age that Ava is right now. She understands what I'm saying, she's not really defiant, she's just so present, you know? I used to have this saying that I would say when I would take her out of the bath. This was when she was a tiny baby and would lay on the towel after I took her out of the tub. I said it to her every day. I stopped saying it when she started crawling away from me. The other day, I said it to her when I was taking her out of the tub and she got the biggest grin on her face and laid her head down on my shoulder.







So the last couple of days, when I take her out of the shower, she kind of hunches over and looks up at me waiting for me to say the special words. Melts my heart!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Ava is such a smart girl! she really is. So sweet - I hope I get to meet her at the next vacation! Norah didn't nurse at all last night, woke briefly around 1, popped in the paci and she went right back to sleep. This is sort of how Gabe weaned, only he was in his crib, and started STTN there. I am a little sad, but so amazed we have made it as far as we did - and a little glad to have my boobs back for a few months before they are overtaken by a new boobie monster, and since this is the last one, he or she doesn't really have to stop at a certain point. Hope everyone has a great friday! Happy Canadian Thanksgiving to JJ!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh! Happy Thanksgiving JJ!

I was just thinking about our Thanksgiving. It's not that far away! Yum. Cannot wait for food! (see other post on how much I love food)

Lauri - that sounds so sweet! Ava is such a doll.

Kat - Aww, bittersweet. Hugs! Sounds like she really is sleeping better, too. I hope it keeps up!! ONE WEEK till you can come out on FB! Its driving me batty! I can't wait to be able to openly talk about it! When is your next appt?

AFM - Chris put the kids to bed last night for the first time and it went super smoothly! I had a great time out at dinner w/my girlfriend. It was so nice to have grown up time. Plus she lives about an hour away, so I got to drive and listen to my music and be by myself for a bit too.

Happy Friday all! I'll be around!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Aaaaaaannnnnd we're back to crap sleep. Got home at 12:30 AM, rushed around packing and cleaning until Ava stirred at 1:45 AM. Went to bed and was up at least twice before she woke at 6 AM FOR THE DAY. Supposed to be driving to my sister's today. 3 hr drive by myself on 4 broken hrs of sleep. Excellent.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Annie: will she sleep in the car? (doesn't help your lack of sleep, but it's something) and HUGS. broken sleep sucks. Though that was me for the last few months - in bed between 12 and 1, up to nurse at least twice, and up for the day at 6. I am sure it's temporary and your good sleeper will return! Do you have to visit? Carrie: next appointment is on Norah's birthday - so next Thursday. Looking forward to hearing the heartbeat again, though the baby is moving more lately - or movements I can feel, and that is good. I am so ready to be "out" on facebook. It means I have verbal vomit when ever I am around people who know I'm pregnant, because I have to talk about it somewhere! I am beyond thankful that so far this pregnancy has been as easy as my others. I pray it continues, and that this baby doesn't dwaddle as much as his or her siblings. Hope everyone has a great weekend! I wish I had more money - we'd be doing Ren Fest this weekend, but it looks like we will hold off until November.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ Isn't that how it always works? I swear, whenever I have big plans for something sleep the night before sucks and everything else goes haywire.

Ooooh, Kat will be coming out soon! hehe

Happy Thanksgiving, JJ. Do you all have a big feast like we do?

We're going through the sickies again. Ugh! It seems like every time I turn around someone here is sick.

Dylan actually fell asleep last night on my legs upside down with his head near my feet.







This morning he woke up, moved around the room a little, even crawled off the bed and back on, then laid back down next to Kellen and fell back to sleep. I didn't have to do a thing.

We were talking about diets at the park yesterday. One of the mom's is pregnant and possibly has gestational diabetes so she's trying to figure out what she can and can't eat. I piped up that I spent so many years exercising like a nut and restricting my food that I'm over it. If I want to eat something because I like it, I'm going to eat it. I'm tired of worrying about whether or not it's good for me or what size I am or how much I weigh. I'm sure that when Dylan is older and I can get more free time, I'll get back into exercising and maybe eating less unhealthy food but not right now. I'm going to enjoy my cake and brownies.









So, I think Ryan's girlfriend moved in, sort of. Ryan decided to have his car engine rebuilt so he talked my mother into giving him $2500 to get it done.







He's out of a car and work for two weeks so his GF is letting him use her car as much as possible. I guess their solution to sharing the car is to have her stay here. I don't really mind, I guess. She doesn't cause any problems. If anything, she makes things nicer because she and Ryan cleaned his room the other night and she bought some groceries.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Well, at least there is a plus side? though I guess, if it were me, I'd want my kid to talk to me about adding people to the household before it was done (asking permission would be nice . . . even in regular rent/landlord situations, you usually need to inform if there is a change in occupancy) BUT - she's nice, and helps, so it's kind of moot - and yeah, it's not my kid  LOL What's up with all the sickies? get better people! Going to the chiro today - it's much needed. I need to be going regularly, especially being pregnant.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Well, at least there is a plus side? though I guess, if it were me, I'd want my kid to talk to me about adding people to the household before it was done (asking permission would be nice . . . even in regular rent/landlord situations, you usually need to inform if there is a change in occupancy) BUT - she's nice, and helps, so it's kind of moot - and yeah, it's not my kid
> 
> ...


She has stayed over periodically here and there. They know I don't mind that. Ryan did ask me if I minded that she had been staying. I, honestly, hadn't even noticed because she's always here when they aren't working, anyway, and we go to bed long before Ryan gets home from work (usually) and goes to bed. So, she hasn't really moved in. She's just been sleeping over more often.

I guess there's an issue with a curfew with her mother, too. She's 23 years old but her mother has still set a curfew. If she's not home by curfew, the door is locked and her mother won't give her a key. I can understand wanting anyone who lives in the home to either be home or check in because, otherwise, I might not be able to sleep from worrying. But that doesn't make sense if you are going to lock someone out if they aren't home. I would just worry more not knowing where my child was and knowing she couldn't get into the house. In that case, it's not an issue of love and concern. It's an issue of control and I think it's ridiculous to try to control an adult child like that. If she were living on her own, would the mom still expect her to be check in by a certain time? I can assure you it's not a case of this girl staying out partying and coming in drunk and loud and obnoxious and waking everyone up. She's so quiet when she comes in the house that she scares me when I turn around and she's suddenly there.









I think my issue with continually getting sick is that I'm not getting the time I need to rest and fully recover. At least no one has been seriously ill for a long period. It's more just annoying cold-type symptoms. I do feel more tired and run down. I actually took a nap on the couch yesterday for an hour or so with Dylan asleep on me. DH was mad when he rushed home to take Ethan to baseball and he wasn't ready. Sorry I am sick.









I need to talk to dh about that. He said he did it because he didn't want to miss his last chance to watch Ethan play baseball. Ok, then why make it not fun by being grumpy about it? He wouldn't even help Ethan find his cup because he was running late. So, being on time is more important than your child's safety? That doesn't make sense. I don't think he's thought of it in those terms so I'm going to try to gently point that out to him.

Oh, doh!







I forgot the reason I came back here to post in the first place.







My chart. Days of EWCF and no O again.

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/coconutsFFChart


My Ovulation Chart


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Well that chart sure is frustrating.









So.

You know the saying just b/c you miss someone doesn't mean you need them back in your life? That it's ok to just miss them?? Idk what to do/think anymore.

I haven't spoken to my sister in over 3 years (since N was around 6 mo old). We had a huge HUGE falling out. I really still haven't forgiven her for what she said/did. But. I just realized she doesn't have me blocked anymore on FB. I was going thru my timeline to see if my PMs were visible and I saw pictures of her adorable 6 mo old baby boy (!!!) and now my heart is just racing and I'm nervous and actually *thinking*...maybe this dead heat silence has gone on long enough? Would she even talk to me?? I'm not blocked by her anymore...but what would happen if I reached out? Am I asking to get hurt?? Would I have to speak to my Mom again??? Is this going to open a can of worms???

Ugh. I wish things were easy and simple and cut and dry. But nothing is. You know?

I've been thinking a lot lately about my family. Partly/mostly b/c Nora is really starting to ask a lot of questions about where my mother is and why we see Daddy's mom but not my mom, etc. I've explained all I can that she did something to hurt my feelings, so I dont talk to her right now. She gets that, but she then tells me, "You should tell her to say sorry, Mom."

If only it were that simple.

You know?

Idk what to do anymore!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

So Nora and Finn have a cousin?? did you know she was pregnant? It's hard - if she was a friend, I would say, forget it, not worth it. But she's not only family, she's your sister. And that's not going to change. I obviously don't know what the falling out was. but it looks like there were hurt feelings on both sides. I would say . . . reach out . . . tenatively, like, beautiful baby! maybe, maybe, maybe, meet in a public place for coffee? My mom and her sisters are all relatively estranged, but are civil when in eachothers company every few years. I can see my sister and I headed in that direction, we are just so different. I like her husband, but she herself is hard to like. Is your family nearby? MW: I hope you are able to get some rest and get well. being sick sucks. I don't have time to be sick. This month is too busy!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Nora and Finn actually have a LOT of cousins! My oldest sister (who I do speak to, we just aren't close) has 12 kids, and my 3rd oldest sister has 2 older girls, and now M has 1 baby. I knew she was having a baby. Last New Years...oh it's a long story. My aunt came out of nowhere and posted on my FB wall that she thought I should know that M was pg and that maybe I could "share in her happiness". Oh boy I flipped. Share in her happiness my ASS. Where was any of my family, where was M when I was pg?? When I had Nora?? Nowhere, thats where. They completely left me high and dry.

Ok - in a nutshell... here is the backstory.

She and I were always oil and water, but we were in a good place I thought. My brother was getting married and she was matron of honor. I was invited to my future SILs bridal shower. Nora was 6 mo old, and I just was going to bring her. Well, my sister (M) flat out told me "she's not invited no kids at the shower" and I was like what? this is your niece! She's ebf and I don't have milk pumped for her, I need that for work!
She started railing on me that it was "sad that chris couldn't watch her" even for 1 afternoon. 
I finally was just like, really mad about this, so I wrote her a PM on FB about how I woudl really just like to bring her. That if I seemed out of line it wasn't b/c I was trying to be difficult but b/c being a mom is a lot of responsibility. Being up w/the baby and working out of the home, etc. 
She fired back, "Well, you sound really happy. Maybe you shouldn't have had her."

I was also fighting a badddd case of PPD at the time, so I went into shock I think. I just X'ed her out of my life.

I told my mom about what had happened and my mom sided with her. Said i shouldn't bring "the baby" to the shower. Her own grandbaby! So...I just cut ties with everyone. :-/

I went to the wedding and tried to just ignore it all but it was too toxic. I went to a few holidays at my Mom's but didn't feel welcome. Easter that year, M stormed out of the house when we showed up. It's been easy to just pretend they don't exist. But when you see a baby and he's real and you miss people...idk. Why do I miss someone who treated me this way?? You know??

I'm worried about getting hurt but I'm also worried about opening up my kids to that level of hurt, as well. My mom was THE most uninvolved grandmother and really never made any effort. It stung. It was sort of the final straw in our tumultuous relationship, so I drew my line there. I didn't like who I was around her or after being around her, and I didn't want my daughter to have an unstable insecure mom. You know?

I'm worried that if I open this up, I'll probably have to hash out stuff with my mom. I don't want to. I do want to but I realllly don't want to. 
I also tend to get like this around the holidays, so I don't know if that's what this is or if it's real.

I just don't know how to make it all on my terms. I can't do that. I don't think I'm 100% in the right. I could have done so much differently, and the fact that I've alienated everyone was MY doing b/c I didn't want to subject myself and my kid(s) to their crap. I justified it at the time but now I'm kind of regretting it. Maybe I should have just painted a smile on and dealt with it? I don't think I was strong enough to. I don't even think i'm necessarily strong enough NOW. I mean, I know who I am so much more now, and I feel more mature about the whole situation...but I still don't know what the right thing to do is.

and honestly guys, if I even mention this to chris again (getting back in touch with them) he's going to be so unsupportive. He loathes my family. Like, abhors. For how they treated me, for all the tears I've cried, for all the rudeness over the years. For all of it. I know he thinks this is bad news. I don't want to even talk to him about it!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ I wish I had time to write up a decent response to this. Maybe I'll be able to do bits and pieces over the weekend. Right now, dh is asleep on the couch and Dylan is throwing things off the coffee table.









Anyway, that's a really hard situation. I am very much one to say stay away from toxic people and/or situation even if it is family. If it's going to cause trouble between you and Chris, maybe it's not worth it, at least not now. You could always be the better person and send your sister a card and a baby gift and leave it at that. Then if she or anyone else wants to try to patch things up with you and contacts you, you can make it on your terms. Tell them up front that you were really hurt and felt very unsupported and abandoned by them and you aren't going to take any crap from them this time. Tell them what kind of relationship you want to have with them. Outline exactly l what is not ok, like telling you how to parent or whatever they may butt their noses into. Have that all worked out before you do anything. As long as you are being reasonable, if they choose not to respect your wishes, you'll know you've done everything you can and none of this is a reflection on you.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

The baby shower thing would have pissed me off. And sounds so much like something my sister would do.
Who, by the way, isn't coming to Norah's 1st birthday party OR our Dad's 50th, which are being celebrated the same day. Some sort of teacher thing, she says. I am tryinv not to be upset. Not surprised.

At any rate, I think I would have just not gone, and stayed cordial. I am not good at writing people off. Too much hope.
I think sending a card and gift would be nice. Puts the ball in her court. As far as open ing up your kids to that sort of hurt, that's hard. And if Chris loathes them, and mostly in defense of you, that says alot - like volumes. Not worth excess marital stress..


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> The baby shower thing would have pissed me off.


It wasn't a baby shower. It was a bridal shower. And it's perfectly ok for someone to plan an adult party like that without kids/babies. People have entire weddings where babies and children are specifically not invited.

I don't see why you couldn't leave a 6 month old with Dad for an hour or two. I've done that and have never had stored breastmilk or bottles available. I would explain that I would most likely have to leave early to get home to my baby but would like to come at least for a short while. My dh would know to call me if he was having trouble. If it's too far away, then I'd politely decline.

I would be extremely hurt by the statement about being unhappy and should've not had the baby. That's mean and hurtful. But, was it said totally out of the blue or was it said as a reaction to something hurtful that was said to her? That would change the entire situation. Not that it would then be ok but maybe understandable.

You can send cards and gifts for the baby without having to interact with the adults because that's what this is about, right? The children.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> It wasn't a baby shower. It was a bridal shower. And it's perfectly ok for someone to plan an adult party like that without kids/babies. People have entire weddings where babies and children are specifically not invited.
> I don't see why you couldn't leave a 6 month old with Dad for an hour or two. I've done that and have never had stored breastmilk or bottles available. I would explain that I would most likely have to leave early to get home to my baby but would like to come at least for a short while. My dh would know to call me if he was having trouble. If it's too far away, then I'd politely decline.
> ...


Of course they do. And I did go and I didn't bring her. But. What really was my issue was how she went about telling me -- rude. And Idk. If it was for a cousin or a friend I could see it, but this was my own family. Grandma! Aunts! 
It was just really rude and unexpected. I had just assumed I could bring her. And honestly a 6 mo nursling is loads different from even a 1 year old or a child. It's just not the same.

I couldn't politely decline. If I hadn't gone it would have been really rude as well. I felt trapped.

And nope, I didn't say anything to provoke that kind of statement from her. I just poured my guts out saying how motherhood was a lot of responsibility, and I pump milk for work and that's really all I had (and mind you this was my very first baby and obv she wasn't eating solids, and I was panicking thinking of being away from her. Plus I worked, and I didn't want to be away from her. Different situation than even with my 2nd baby, honestly!)

Anyway, I don't even think I was right looking back but my feelings were hurt. The fact they didn't want Nora there really bothered me. I felt hurt FOR her. I felt like they were so excited when I had her, and they they just completely abandoned us. Nobody ever called or came by. Nobody asked how we were doing. I had PPD and I don't even think they cared. M would send me text messages about "why aren't you coming to moms????" for x or y reason (usually just a sunday afternoon) not realizing I had this little family I was trying to grow and was tired and not really wanting to. Idk. It might sound selfish but at the time it was really all I could do. Nora was so incredibly high needs. She didn't sleep at night (picture Tenley). I was exhausted and I mentioned that in my pm to her. She took that and ran -- instead of being a listening ear or being supportive, she hit me where it hurt. On purpose.

I would call my mom weekly and I always got rushed off the phone for a TV show coming on or some odd reason like that.

I can't send her anything. I don't know any addresses.

Idk. After a night of (broken) sleep and just more thinking, I'm not going to act on anything yet. I don't like how it's making me already. Just thinking about these people is making me really uneasy and that quote you posted, Alysia, really made sense.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> What really was my issue was how she went about telling me -- rude. And Idk. If it was for a cousin or a friend I could see it, but this was my own family. Grandma! Aunts!
> 
> ...


I don't really understand why you couldn't just decline. I don't understand the whole issue of feeling obligated to attend things like that just because. I figure if they get angry because I don't go, they aren't the kind of people I need to be around, anyway (which might help you answer your question).

Quote:


> Anyway, I don't even think I was right looking back but my feelings were hurt. The fact they didn't want Nora there really bothered me. I felt hurt FOR her. I felt like they were so excited when I had her, and they they just completely abandoned us. Nobody ever called or came by. Nobody asked how we were doing. I had PPD and I don't even think they cared. M would send me text messages about "why aren't you coming to moms????" for x or y reason (usually just a sunday afternoon) not realizing I had this little family I was trying to grow and was tired and not really wanting to. Idk. It might sound selfish but at the time it was really all I could do. Nora was so incredibly high needs. She didn't sleep at night (picture Tenley). I was exhausted and I mentioned that in my pm to her. She took that and ran -- instead of being a listening ear or being supportive, she hit me where it hurt. On purpose.
> 
> I would call my mom weekly and I always got rushed off the phone for a TV show coming on or some odd reason like that.


I wonder if you took things too personally because of your situation, PPD, first baby, sleep-deprivation. I'm not saying that you are wrong but you only have your side of the incident. There's usually my side, their side and the truth somewhere in the middle. KWIM?

I guess what I'm trying to get at is, if you think you overreacted at all or think that you could have done something differently at all, then maybe it would be a good idea to try to patch things up. If you truly believe that she (they) did the wrong thing and hurt you on purpose, then don't bother with them. Just because someone is family doesn't mean you have to associate with them.
Quote:


> I can't send her anything. I don't know any addresses.


Can you get addresses from your aunt? Could you send something to your mom or your other sister to pass along?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Good points, all, Alysia. Thank you!!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I'm glad I could help.

So, I did something nutty. I decided to invite a bunch of neighbors over for BBQ tomorrow. That means dh will be cooking all day. He doesn't mind. I hope I can keep up. There are going to be around 20 people, adults and children.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

That actually sounds fun!! I think you'll do fine.

I'm starting to get serious with planning Nora's party. It's small so I don't have to go too nuts but I think I might see how $$ it is to rent a bounce house. She had too much fun in one today at a friend's party and asked for it for hers.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

We got a bouncy house for a party we had once. The kids loved it!

I'm going crazy with the way Dylan is nursing these days. He wants me to sit on the couch with my shirt pulled up so he can come and go as he pleases and switch from one side to the other over and over. He cries and screams if I pull my shirt down or tell him to pick a side. It's driving me crazy!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> We got a bouncy house for a party we had once. The kids loved it!
> I'm going crazy with the way Dylan is nursing these days. He wants me to sit on the couch with my shirt pulled up so he can come and go as he pleases and switch from one side to the other over and over. He cries and screams if I pull my shirt down or tell him to pick a side. It's driving me crazy!


What a demanding little dude!!

He's too much! That honestly would drive me bananas as well.

We went to my BILs fire station open house today. The kids had a lot of fun. They had a huge bounce castle thing so Nora was in heaven, she went on it twice and used up 4 of her ride/game tickets!! She wanted to go even more times, lol! We got to see the fire trucks and they even had a helicopter come and land and the kids could see in and sit in the cockpit. Was pretty cool even for a grown up!

Finn did amazing, he completely skipped napping the whole day. I thought he'd be a fuss but he was in a great mood. We even went out to red robin around 330 and ate with my ILs and he was awesome, ate well, was cute, the whole nine. We pushed it and went to Fresh Market for goodies afterwards. He then fell asleep in the car for the hour ride home.

Tonight chris and I are going to watch the Langoliers. I'm so in the mood to sit and watch a crappy made for TV stephen king movie.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

BBQ is over.







It was fun. I feel like everyone left too early. They left before 9 pm. I've had way too much wine. hehe It was fun. The food was sooo good. People asked me what I made. I told them I didn't make any of it. It's the truth. Sean makes everything.









Carrie ~ I saw your firetruck pics. I loved them all. Nora and Finn driving the truck are too cute!

The worst with Dylan is in the middle of the night. What can I do? We fight because he wants to twiddle my nipples and flip back and forth. I put my hand or arm over myself but he just pushes and cries and screams. Ugh!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: Would Dylan still do that if you weren't there? (that's my only thought or suggestion) - re: the nipple twiddling. I am so thankful I have yet to have a nipple twiddler. That and the other nursing behavior would drive me bananas. I know lots of toddler boys that are the same way with nrsing, they just want it constantly available. It would cause me to want to be out of the house with lots of distractions all the time to avoid situations where he thought I could just sit there and nurse all day. Of course, this phase will pass too, but from what I've seen in my friends that nurse toddlers, it seems to last until around age 2 (which seems like forever, but it's not, I guess) I have yet to meet a toddler girl nursling that does that. IDK why. But also, I know far more toddler boy nurslings at the moment. I am really a bit sad that norah is not night nursing anymore. Not enough to want to encourage her to continue, or go back to offering during the day . . . But I miss nursing her already. I did not miss nursing Gabe when he weaned. But with him, nursing had become painful and frequent - I was so ready for him to stop. I had finally got to a place of contement with nursing Norah just once at night, and she stopped. LOL go figure. It wont be long before I have another boobie monster! babies do have to grow up. Carrie: I am so glad the kids had a lot of fun! Gabe loves a bouncy house. I rarely let him go on them - because they don't have specific start and stop times, like other "rides" and getting him off can be a real challenge. And I am not renting one. They are wicked expensive (at least here) I think a little over $200 for the day at all the places I've looked. Busy week ahead preparing for the birthdays. I am excited! and so glad that when this week is over I can be "out" and stop being secretive!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

It would be a bit impossible for me to nurse him and not be there at the same time.







He does that while he nursing, not while just laying there or sleeping. Sorry I wasn't clear about that. I don't mind him wanting to nurse a lot, either. I can sit pretty much all day and let him nurse if that's what he wants. What bugs me is that he won't pick and side and nurse. He wants to continually switch from one side to the other every few seconds. That drives me batty!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Ah, that makes more sense! In that case, I hope it is a phase he grows out of soon. One friend was able to offer a pinching alternative (in his case a plush doll) to spare the hands that were being pinched when said child was being sleepy and tired. IDK if that would work in your case. For the switching sides, also seems to just be a common toddler nursing thing. No help, just lots of sympathy. Great day out with friends I don't get to see much, now back at work. *sigh*


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Whew! Busy, busy weekend! Ava and I are back home and recovering from our time away. We had a great time. After waking up so early, she went back down for a 2 hr nap so I slept with her even though I should have packed. I just couldn't do that drive on so little sleep. So we left about an hour later than I had wanted to but we still arrived before traffic got too bad up there. Ava did great on the drive up. She slept some and talked and looked out the window. She didn't really start to get upset until we were about 20 mins away. I just kept feeding her goldfish one at a time and that kept her relatively happy. She had so much fun playing with her cousins. My 3 yr old niece and Ava are two peas in a pod. And since Ava likes to spend her days in various states of undress, Grace decided she needed to do that too.









Do any of you have sisters that you are close to? I'm trying to figure out if my sister's girls and Ava are drawn to us because we sound like each other or if they have some biological knowledge that we are related. It's the most interesting thing to me, especially after having spent time with MW and Baby_Cakes. Dylan and Finn didn't mind me but they didn't really tolerate me doing stuff for them and vice versa with Ava and the other moms. But my nieces have never had a problem with me taking care of them, they never have to "re-learn" me when they haven't seen me for months and Ava is the same way with my sister. She just goes to her, no problems. In fact, she was following her around the house begging my sister to pick her up. What do you guys think? Do they feel safe with us because we sound the same? Just something interesting I was thinking about on my drive back yesterday.

Baby_Cakes, if you have the space to store it, it would probably be more economical to just buy a bounce house to use for future parties. I don't think they are much more than what it costs to rent one.

MW, I got the biggest chuckle out of you being sad that everyone left before 9 PM. They probably left because it's a Sunday night and kids have to go to school today!







Glad the party was a success though! I wish we had yard space to do something like that.

akind1, I can't wait for you to announce! I was thinking the other day that if I get pregnant again, I would try to make it to 20 weeks before announcing. I don't like people pestering me.

JJ, how's Miss Ten doing these days? Did you get the extra crib to sidecar?

Teething is going to be the death of me! I'll be so happy when these incisors (I think that's what Ava is working on right now) comes in. She's literally biting her own hand from the pain. Messy dipes from upset tummy, interrupted sleep, drooling, bah. Go away teething!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ I do think there is something to what you have noticed. It's probably a combo of looking and sounding similar. When I was little I used to switch mommies whenever I was around my aunt. I'm not close to my sister but my mom has always had a pretty easy time of taking care of my babies.

School was closed today for the holiday. I think, though, it was probably because we all have young kids. We had a good time. We set everything up in the backyard but it started pouring rain right when the food was ready so we all ended up staying inside. Well, the kids were outside playing in the rain. They got soaked.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh that's true. I forget that some school systems close for Columbus Day. Ours doesn't. The BBQ looked so good in the pic you posted on FB. I wanted to drive down to you guys so I could eat it!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Do any of you have sisters that you are close to? I'm trying to figure out if my sister's girls and Ava are drawn to us because we sound like each other or if they have some biological knowledge that we are related. It's the most interesting thing to me, especially after having spent time with MW and Baby_Cakes. Dylan and Finn didn't mind me but they didn't really tolerate me doing stuff for them and vice versa with Ava and the other moms. But my nieces have never had a problem with me taking care of them, they never have to "re-learn" me when they haven't seen me for months and Ava is the same way with my sister. She just goes to her, no problems. In fact, she was following her around the house begging my sister to pick her up. What do you guys think? Do they feel safe with us because we sound the same? Just something interesting I was thinking about on my drive back yesterday.
> 
> JJ, how's Miss Ten doing these days? Did you get the extra crib to sidecar?


Sorry, I've been reading along, and keeping a mental list of things I want to comment on, but haven't sat down at the computer for long enough to actually respond.

I think there's probably a lot of truth to what you said. I think the looks and the sounds, but also I'm sure family members smell similar on a deeper level too.

Tenley is doing good. She's having huge milestones lately with babbling a lot more, and has all of a sudden decided that she wants to walk. She's not walking -yet-, but she's cruising along furniture like crazy, and if she lets go of things, she's 'standing' for a little longer than she used to. She's really loving her books too. SO adorable to watch her crawl over, open up a book and just sit there quietly with it for awhile.

She is however, eating hardly any solids, and not sleeping great. A better night or two with a few 2 hour stretches, and then back to the every hour or less wakeups. I'm been managing to get a bit of sleep in the mornings though, so I'm doing ok. She's teething again pretty badly, so I think that's contributing a lot to the sleep right now. You can see it in her face that she's wanting to sleep, but can't.

I went out after that convo the other day and bought a few new shirts- 2 actual nursing shirts, and then two others that are just easier to nurse in or hide my belly. I'm in a much better mood when I'm not feeling fat  lol

Anywho... the house is relatively clean, and Tenley has been asleep for 1.5 hours already! She woke up about an hour in, and called out once but I went to her door, and she was quiet again, but I could hear her moving... and then she fell back asleep. I suspect she'll be up in the next half hour or so though, so I'm gonna get ready for bed, and play a game for a bit until she wakes up. That way I can do right to sleep after.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh, and we didn't grab a crib yet, but I've been using my nightstand as a bedrail. LOL It looks trashy, but it kind of does the job. I push it down at night, so that it's around hip level- so I can lean that direction without falling out of bed. In the morning, I push it back up to the wall, so it looks pretty. lol. I've been keeping my eye out for a cheap crib on the sale site that comes with all the hardware, but also working on convincing Ten to sleep straight while she's in the bed! lol


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

So . . . Norah was inconsolable last night for DH (which hasn't ever happened) and so I offered the boob, and then of course we lost the paci in the bed last night so I had to boob her instead. And she was waking every couple hours. Oh well. Guess we aren't ready to wean yet, hehe. And I am really ok with that, surprisingly. JJ: I hope you find a sleep solution that works for all of you soon, I know going without really sucks. Sisters . . . despite my sister and I looking and sounding alike, my kids don't really like her. they tolerate her, but that's about it. Gabe prefers men in general as caretakers (except for me) - He adores his grandfathers and his great uncles - and Norah prefers women, generally, my mom and and DH's . . . I have always had good luck with babies liking me and accepting me as caregiver. I think thats because I'm comfortable around them. My mom says its the big boobs. very funny.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I shove the blanket b/w me and finn during the night and pin his top arm down so he can't pinch! I wouldn't be able to stand nipple twiddling. My nips are toooo sensitive! I don't like anyone (including DH) touching them. The thought gives me *****!

He's been sleeping 6 hour stretches!







It's been amazing and I'm just going to enjoy it while it lasts. And catch up on all the sleep I've missed!

re: bounce house -- nooo, no place to store it. Tiny house. Need to move. Don't need more junk either! I checked it out -- it's only $150 to rent for the entire weekend. I ran it by Chris and he said maybe. So. Hopefully. It's raelly only going to be her, and possibly one other kid besides Finn. I worry both kids I invited won't make it. Both their moms are due with babies any day now (within the next 3 weeks) so it's like, will they come if they are still pg? They won't if they have their babies! You know? Sigh. Tough sitch. So if no other kids come at least she'll have a bounce house to play in with Finn (and I'd get in!! LOL!)

Kat - sweet that she nursed! Aww! Guess she isn't ready to let go just yet. Enjoy it! You never know when that last nursing will be!

JJ - Yay to Ten for newfound mobility and standing! Fun times!!

AFUs - Finn is up and walking/running around! He's def turned into a toddler. He used to be so easy to take along shopping, now he tries to stand and climb out of the cart. Here we go! LOL! Right now sleep is ok so I'm not going to complain OR jinx it! Just ate a huge lunch. Ugh. Full. Not doing well with watching what I'm eating -- I think I'm going to just be happy and try here and there but not drive myself or anyone else crazy. I get so grouchy when I'm hungry. Not worth it.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Wow! bounce houses there are much more reasonable! And holy moly, good sleep! keep it up Finn!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Dylan has been sleeping more, too. I think he only nurses 2-3 times a night now. It has been nice. Well, I just did the math and that's still nursing every 3-4 hours. Haha!

I've been wearing my nursing necklace again. It helps during the day but it's a pain at night. It gets spun around on my neck and then I have to fiddle with it, which ends up waking me more. Oh well.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Isn't it funny how the switch just happens? Like one night, they are a holy terror waking all through the night needing needing needing the milks and then the next night, eh, don't need the milks. So crazy to me!

DH is driving me crazy these days being overly cautious w/Ava. Lots of telling her to be careful, she can't do this or that or play with this or that because she'll get hurt. I don't feel like they are big deals and it usually things I let her do so I don't understand his push to correct her on them. Like the picture that I posted of her standing on the chair next to me while I pump. He doesn't want her to stand on the chair. Apparently she fell off one night with him. So he doesn't want her to do it at all. But when it's just me and her home, and she wants to stand on the chair and that gives me a few minutes to pump, I'm going to let her stand on the chair.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> DH is driving me crazy these days being overly cautious w/Ava. Lots of telling her to be careful, she can't do this or that or play with this or that because she'll get hurt. I don't feel like they are big deals and it usually things I let her do so I don't understand his push to correct her on them. Like the picture that I posted of her standing on the chair next to me while I pump. He doesn't want her to stand on the chair. Apparently she fell off one night with him. So he doesn't want her to do it at all. But when it's just me and her home, and she wants to stand on the chair and that gives me a few minutes to pump, I'm going to let her stand on the chair.


Carrie posted an article about that sort of thing on Facebook recently. Maybe she can dig it back up for you. I had to get on DH about that with our kids for a while. It's such a typical way that people think they show they care but it has the opposite effect. I stopped telling my kids to be careful or be nice or be good. I usually say, "Have fun!"

Of course, then there's Kellen who seems to get hurt every time he turns around.







Then it's really hard to not tell him to be careful.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I'm trying really hard to not say "Be careful" to Ava but instead say "Please be mindful of what you are doing." It's kind of a mouthful but I want to communicate to her that I would like for her to pay attention to what she's doing, i.e. not fall back while sitting on the edge of a step or something like that but not cripple her by saying "be careful"...maybe it's the same thing? Hmmmm, need to think about that a bit.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Yes!! It's so hard!! I think I say be careful more for myself than for the child. Idk. I've started just saying to Nora, "you think you can do it? Try! I trust you!" Or something like that. With Finn tho...I'm more like, "whoa buddy, how did you climb up there? Falling hurts! Let me show you how to get down!" Or, "let's make good choices!"
Choosing wording is hard. I just want to blurt out no!! Be careful!!

How do you guys handle one child purposely hitting or pushing over another? I need ideas.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I do say be careful. Which usually prompts Gabe to say, "big ouches?" and I say, "yes, if you are not careful, you can get big ouches" - it's not to tell him not to do something, but not to be reckless, which the older and bolder he gets, the more he is. A little bit of caution is not a bad thing. Generally I love how fearless he is, but sometimes it goes a bit too far.

That, and I hate to say this, because I don't really like the idea of older siblings having to watch out for younger ones (as in be an example - that puts a lot of undue pressure), but Norah DOES try to do things that Gabe does. And she is just not quite ready for some of it. And so, while she is awake and active, I kind of try to keep the daredevil stuff down to a minimum.

Pushing and hitting: me too, because I feel my options suck. You saw on FB about how Gabe loves to push Norah down? and she loves him doing it (most of the time) . . . I can't find a good reason to stop it while she's laughing and giggling, but I do try to make Gabe aware once it's gone too far - "Norah's crying now, not laughing. let's take a break from this game and give her hugs and kisses instead" Which works for a little bit. Our bigger issue is lately Gabe doesn't want to share me, (literally, he says, "Gabe no share mommy") and pushes or kicks at Norah to get away. What my gut reaction is to do is to push him away and cuddle Norah, who was just pushed and wants mommy time too, but I feel this is wrong in that all it does is cement a preference in Gabe's head, where there really isn't one. And make him more jealous of the mommy time he does have. So I usually pass Norah off to DH, and sit and talk with Gabe, but this also doesn't feel quite right.

If I were a toy they were fighting over, i would just take it away for a bit, but that's not really an option.

Carrie, is it just general pushing and hitting, or more specific stuff?

Annie: She stands on the chair all the time, right? and she fell once. Falls happen. Even to grown people. I can go up and down stairs a hundred times, but one time I will trip. doesn't mean I stop using the stairs. Ava seems like the kind of independent little person that no matter what, she's going to do it - climb, jump, whatever. You just try to find safe ways to do those things. (like maybe only climb the chair if mom or dad is sitting right next to you?)


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

We have sharing issues as well. Not like, oh he wants it you need to give it to him. I don't believe in that. But if he's got something she wants she just takes it from him and he pitches a huge fit. I usually insist she gives it back, and that makes her throw a fit. So then I've got two fit throwers and my blood pressure is rising and I have a hard time acting calm.

The hitting/shoving is out of meanness and anger. He'll come over to watch her do something and she just shoves him. Or like, last night, he came over and tried to play cars with her, and she took her car and smashed his hand with it, causing him to cry. DH thought the best course was to take her car away. But then she was crying so hard for her car that I couldn't get her to even acknowledge that she hurt Finn. I'd rather focus on "look, he's hurt, how can we make him feel better?" than take away something she had every right to play with.

I explained this to DH afterwards and he was like, "Yeah but doing it your way doesn't work either." and I just had to say, "of course not, but the more consistent we are, the more she will learn empathy. She's young still. Taking her toy only teaches her to take toys away."

She's always hitting, shoving, pinching, going up to him and smacking. Idk what to do about it other than what I just said. I try to not make a huge deal over it, but I do console Finn and have her see how her actions hurt him. I try to get her to come up with a way to make him feel better (she usually says sorry and gives a kiss).

Thoughts? Ideas? Ways to stay sane?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Ugh. We have a good deal of all of that. It sucks. I need to be more consistent. I usually pick Gabe up, sit him on the couch (where of course he's crying and upset) and cuddle and make sure Norah is ok - then try to resettle her playing with something, Go over to him, talk about it briefly, try to calm him down and then go back to work (one of the banes of working from home. I feel I could be more preventative if I wasn't mostly focused on work)

I don't really tell him he has to sit on the couch, but he never tries to get off, he generally sits there and mopes until he's ready to play again. I think that's really, for him, the best way to go - is to just let him cool down (and honestly, I need to cool down too - the sibling on sibling aggression is the thing that makes my blood boil the fastest). This is only for those times he's being agressive during play. Doesn't work with the not wanting to share mommy stuff.

Generally, he is really good with sharing - he's possessive for a minute, but usually within a couple minutes, he'll go over and offer the toy to whoever wanted it.

I really think consistency is key, and I have not been good at it. Can I blame it on pregnancy hormones?? but that doesn't help Gabe. I keep telling myself, sooner or later Norah will start defending herself, and then that will be funny. I think.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

[quote name="akind1" url="/community/t/1364692/october-2012-rockstar-mamas/100#post_17136352"You saw on FB about how Gabe loves to push Norah down? and she loves him doing it (most of the time) . . . I can't find a good reason to stop it while she's laughing and giggling, but I do try to make Gabe aware once it's gone too far - "Norah's crying now, not laughing. let's take a break from this game and give her hugs and kisses instead"[/quote]

I think that's a pretty good way of handling it. If they are having fun, I don't see a reason to stop it. Once anyone is not having fun anymore, time to stop. The way you are doing it will help Gabe be able to notice that on his own, eventually.

I try to handle sibling aggression by, first, heading it off at the pass. That means being constantly vigilant of what the boys are doing. I'm not perfect at it.Once it happens, I separate them and tell them both that I won't let them hurt each other. Ethan usually gets really mad and screams that I don't care about him because, from his POV, Kellen did something to him and he was just reacting. I talk to Ethan about moving away from Kellen and/or getting me but not retaliating. Once he retaliates, I have to focus on getting him to stop hurting Kellen rather than focusing on Kellen's annoying behavior. Ethan hasn't quite gotten that concept yet so it's a lot of fun (Not!).

I don't make my kids share toys. If one wants something that the other has, I tell them to ask for it and then wait until the other person is done. I think this helps them share more because they don't feel like they have to hoard it or whatever if they can use it as long as they want. If it seems like it will be a while before the first person is done with it, I will try to find something else for the other to use in the meantime. It doesn't always make the person waiting happy but I think it makes the most sense. I don't think it's reasonable at all to make one child give up whatever they are playing with before they are done just because someone else wants it (unless, of course, it is the other person's thing to begin with).

Ok, Dylan is having a fit again so I have to stop. Maybe I can post more later.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Ethan seems so peaceful and fair. Does he ever grab something from Kellen? Or does Kellen grab from Dylan? Our issues with sharing are of the "grabbing out of hands" "I want that" sort, even if it's Finn's toy AND he had it first.

I recently had to put all the ride on toys out in the garage b/c Finn was never "allowed" to even touch them. She would ride on one, and hide the other so he couldn't have it. Then when she was on it, she would plow into him or run over his fingers or toes when I wasn't looking (and sometimes when I was!!).

I mean, they get along really well probably 90% of the time! Don't get me wrong! But I tihnk that's why it's so hard for me to get why she acts like this the other 10% of the time. Just be nice! Play fair! LOL!

Oh I also would never expect either one to give something up just b/c the other wants it. I don't view that as sharing at all.

ETA - Just got off the phone - bounce castle is reserved! she's gonna go nuts!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh, yeah, they all grab from each other sometimes. I feel like I spend at least half of all my days breaking up fights between Ethan and Kellen. Ethan can get pretty hurtful toward Kellen. They both yell at and push Dylan away when he gets in their way or tries to take something they are using. They don't purposely try to hurt him, though.

Ethan does purposely hurt Kellen when he gets pushed too far. I'm trying to work with Ethan on moving away from Kellen when he's annoying him. It's hard, though, because it's not fair for Ethan to have to leave all the time. That's when I tell Ethan to tell me so I can move Kellen away. When they are both just bickering with each other I have them sit on opposite sides of the room.

I would suspect that Nora is having a hard time understanding that everything isn't hers. It was all hers for a long time. She didn't have anyone else that had his own stuff or that she needed to get along and share with. Do you have things designated as hers only and Finn's only? I think that helps. We get two (or three now) of a lot of things. Ethan had a DSi. As soon as Kellen started showing interest in it, I worked things out so that I could get one for him, too. They each have their own Nerf guns and video games. They tend to be more willing to share when they know they don't have to, that they have their own things that they can get back whenever they want.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I agree, kids shouldn't be made to share. (except for people. Gabe somehow needs to learn that he has to share me)

We have things that are specifically one kids or the others . . . but I think both are too young yet to really understand those boundaries. Need to work on that as Gabe gets older.

I really need to work on Gabe being carried. he absolutely doesn't want DH to do it, and frankly, he's getting too heavy, and I'm getting too far along, to do it. Wearing him is ok, but it's still a stress on my body that it really doesn't need. Any helpful hints on that one?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I would suspect that Nora is having a hard time understanding that everything isn't hers. It was all hers for a long time. She didn't have anyone else that had his own stuff or that she needed to get along and share with. Do you have things designated as hers only and Finn's only? I think that helps. We get two (or three now) of a lot of things. Ethan had a DSi. As soon as Kellen started showing interest in it, I worked things out so that I could get one for him, too. They each have their own Nerf guns and video games. They tend to be more willing to share when they know they don't have to, that they have their own things that they can get back whenever they want.


They each have their own things, and then things they can play with together (like matchbox cars. that seems to be the biggest stressor lately). They each want the same car. So. We got 2 maters, 2 mqueens, etc, but still. She'll take his or both and declare them hers. 
The ride ons we had 2, but she always hoarded them. Idk why. Sometimes they would play nice together and chase each other around. I guess in time I'll bring them back in and see how they do.

I know time will solve all this but I'm just trying to keep my sanity until we get there.

I don't think there's really much that either one has that the other doesn't, except Nora has her baby. OH - she changed her baby's name. It's now Jewelry.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I really need to work on Gabe being carried. he absolutely doesn't want DH to do it, and frankly, he's getting too heavy, and I'm getting too far along, to do it. Wearing him is ok, but it's still a stress on my body that it really doesn't need. Any helpful hints on that one?


Does the 'like a big boy' stuff work on him? You could keep just repeating that. And when you're out or watching TV point out how all the big boys walk on their own (or ride in the cart). When they notice other kids doing it sometimes it helps.

But! Also, time. Nora still insisted on being carried at lot at 2. I think they still need it, quite frankly. They tire so easily and can't keep up, and I think they are still really dependent little things! Not that that helps you at all right now! LOL!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Crap! I hit something on my new computer and erased my entire post!

Anyway, sharing mommy: Can you hold both of them at the same time? Engage Gabe is something else while you are holding Norah?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I guess in time I'll bring them back in and see how they do.


Did you take the ride-ons away from Finn because Nora wouldn't share? That's not really fair to Finn. I would continue to tell Nora in very simple terms that she has hers and Finn has his and you won't let her take Finn's away or hurt him with any of them. Stop her every time and tell her that. Give her hers again and give Finn his or put her somewhere that she can ride it without Finn around or vice versa.

Maybe she can't tell the difference between the two cars if they are the same? Could you mark them somehow so she can tell which one is hers? DH did that with the boys Captain America shields so we didn't have to worry about them fussing over which one was who's.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Did you take the ride-ons away from Finn because Nora wouldn't share? That's not really fair to Finn. I would continue to tell Nora in very simple terms that she has hers and Finn has his and you won't let her take Finn's away or hurt him with any of them. Stop her every time and tell her that. Give her hers again and give Finn his or put her somewhere that she can ride it without Finn around or vice versa.
> Maybe she can't tell the difference between the two cars if they are the same? Could you mark them somehow so she can tell which one is hers? DH did that with the boys Captain America shields so we didn't have to worry about them fussing over which one was who's.


It's not fair to him that she grabs them away, and hits him with them either. He wasn't able to enjoy them at all. I was really, really unable to keep my cool most days b/c of those toys. So, I removed them from the house. She gets to ride them away from him outside. He can too. At different times. Not together!

Oh, they are the same but they are slightly different. They are chunkier plastic "baby" versions for Finn and metal ones for her.

She's just hoardy. I don't want to call it selfish b/c she really isn't. She just tends to get possessive. Even if she isn't currently playing with it, it's like if she ever did, she had it first. You know? Sigh. Kids.

She'll also play smack in the middle of the room and tell me I need to keep Finn away. No, I do not. This is central living space. You can play in your room or in the kitchen with the gate shut -- but no, she'll pitch a fit that she needs to be right in the middle of the room. If he walks by or touches anything she yells "NO FINNLEY!! GRRR!"

I need to get Finn a halloween costume. Did you guys all make final costume decisions?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

My kids do all of those things. The older boys tell me a lot that I need to get MY baby!







I say, "No, I don't. If he's bothering you, you can go somewhere else." Sometimes they get angry and yell or scream. That's what kids do.

They also do the, "I was using that last week so you can't have it." I'm exaggerating but they do set things down and then get upset sometimes if someone else comes along and picks it up. I usually say that the person who claimed it first gets it. So, if Kellen was playing with it and put it down and came back 30 minutes later and said he was still using it, he gets it back. I put things down all the time or walk away from them, like my computer, when I'm not done with them. Then if one of the boys wants to use it, I tell them I wasn't done. Then I decide if I want to finish something up before I let them use it or tell them they can use it and I'll finish what I'm doing later. I think that since they know they will get it asap, they don't get too upset about it most times. They are older, though. Dylan obviously doesn't understand when I ask him to wait 2 minutes for me to finish a sentence before picking him up.









Ethan has become more and more possessive recently. I'm not sure what that's about. Maybe it's just an age thing. He really wants his own, private room.

Not sure what you mean about making the final decision on costumes. You mean, if one of my children picks something that I think is inappropriate? I did tell Ethan that he couldn't get one of the really gory costumes that he wanted. I think those are too much for a bunch of little kids. He decided he wants to be a Marine and had originally picked out a costume at the store but I told him I'd get him a real set of camis from the Exchange. I really need to go do that before they end up sold out of his size. Kellen had first said he wanted to be Wolverine again but now he says he wants to be a zombie. I'll make him a zombie costume if he wants that. We'll see.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Sharing mommy: he used to do that, let me hold them both at once. Now he pushes her out of the way, and says "Daddy hold Norah" or "Norah down floor!" He will use his words if I remind him to, but it's not very fair to Norah that she doesn't get cuddle time with mama when she wants it, just because she's easier to pass of and doesn't make as big a fuss. This has really only started recently, since she's not been nursing as much, or at all.

Well, my kids really don't care what they are,so I get to pick. Norah is going to be a piggy and Gabe is going to be a farmer. Tada!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> My kids do all of those things. The older boys tell me a lot that I need to get MY baby!
> 
> ...


NAK

At least it's normal then. Haha!

HA - No i mean did everyone make up their minds yet? Nora keeps changing her mind and i cant decide what finn should be. I sort of have no real desire to do h'ween this year and cant get excited!!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

oh, i read that wrong. i thought it said, do you make the final decision. obviously, then, no.







dylan will be whatever we have that fits, a lion or a devil. i'm partial to the devil.

Kat ~ I think that unless Norah really protests, take advantage of being able to cuddle with Gabe more. If she's really protesting, only wants you, crying inconsolably, then hold them both. If Gabe protests, tell him that you are not going to ignore Norah when she needs you just like you won't ignore him when he needs you. He can choose whether or not to stay with you but you will continue to hold Norah, too. That may not make him happy but I think it's fair and reasonable. There's not much else you can do.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I was going to do the garden gnome for Ava but I looked at the costume and if she won't wear the hat, it's kind of hard to figure out what she is. So I think I'm going to do the bumblebee tutu. I need to take her in Target tomorrow and try it on.

Sharing/hoarding...that stuff is hard. I think it helps to dig a little deeper. Is it possible that Nora does that stuff to get your attention/get a reaction from you? I ask that because I noticed a couple of times when we were together that she would start to do something she knew she wasn't supposed to be doing and she would look up to see if you or Chris were watching her. She would catch my eye and I would kind of just raise my eyebrow at her or say something like "Nora, is that a good choice?" and she would smile and say "Nooooo!". Also, I think she's old enough to try to some positive behavior modification. When the boys that I nannied were around that age, they started hitting and being so mean to each other. So their parents and I implemented a system that involved a small reward at the end of each day. I got a bunch of little things like matchbox cars, etc and wrapped them individually. We put them in a basket and put them up on a shelf so the kids could see but not reach. We gave them the parameters such as make it through the day w/out hitting brother, listening nicely, etc and then when they got up from their nap (that was the timeframe we gave them), they could pick out a present to open. It only took about a week and a half to modify the behavior.

Ava went from 12:30 AM until 8:30 AM w/out milk last night. She didn't wake up. I'm kind of shocked. And she didn't finish the bottle that DH had given her before 12:30 AM. I poured out about 4 oz this morning from the old bottle plus the milk I had left on the counter for her middle of the night bottle. It kind of makes me sad! But she's eating a lot more solids and she seems ok w/her choice. I'm definitely offering plenty of milk, she just doesn't want it. At nap, she's hardly finishing her 3-4 oz bottle. Which may be a good thing because DH made an interesting choice last night. We DTD and usually he asks me or something and he didn't and he didn't withdraw.







I was CD 8 so it's probably fine but a little to close for my comfort, you know? I don't want to lose my milk before Ava is done. But if I get pg, I can't do much about it. Ah well, just need to not think about it.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, I would try to think a little more about why Nora would do the things she does. Maybe sometimes just sit back and watch what happens and really pay close attention to whatever leads up to certain behaviors (stopping her short of hurting anyone, of course).

Back to the idea that this way or that way isn't working. It really helps to get clear on what everyone means by that. What would it look like if whatever it was did work? Do you want a child who will instantly obey? Do you want a child that expresses empathy? What are the principles behind what you are trying to do?

For example, I want my children to feel and express empathy for others so I try to express empathy towards others. I want my children to be generous so I am as generous with them and others as I can be.

Which brings me to something that has been really bothering me. Yesterday at Ethan's baseball game the nasty former team mom was watching another child. That child was crying and she got in his face, put her finger up and asked, "Why are you crying?" in a not so nice way. He said he wanted his mom. She said she would take him to his mom as soon as the game was over, but again, not so nicely. I wanted to go sit next to the boy and comfort him but I didn't. I wish I had but I don't know what I would have done. I don't know the child and I don't know either parents. Would you all have done/said something to the child in such a situation? If so, what? I hate that I feel like I can't do anything for a child in distress who is being supervised because it's not my business. KWIM?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I was going to do the garden gnome for Ava but I looked at the costume and if she won't wear the hat, it's kind of hard to figure out what she is. So I think I'm going to do the bumblebee tutu. I need to take her in Target tomorrow and try it on.
> 
> ...


I'm going to try that. We used to have a "chart" that was mostly for behavior. Keep your hands to yourself, use inside voice, etc. She liked earning stickers for it, and then would get a prize. Then one day she tore it down and wrote all over it so I got rid of it. That was the end of that.

I also think Finn just needs tougher skin. He needs to be able to be more like Norah and laugh it off or fight back to a degree. I only step in if he's actually getting hurt or really upset.

Aside -- Kat -- I told my Nora that your Norah spells her name with an H and now on all her papers at home and school she keeps writing N-O-R-A-H and laughing. I think it's so silly!








to Ava going that long! HOLY CRAP! Good work miss A!

and ...








OMG CD 8!? When do you usually O? Did you have fertile CM!? I'm going to stalk you now!!! Are you temping?? Woo hoo!

I think you'll be ok and not run out of milk even if you are pg. Usually it isn't til the 2nd tri that things get hairy, right? I think if you push thru and Ava keeps up with solids it will be a natural transition.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Yeah, I would try to think a little more about why Nora would do the things she does. Maybe sometimes just sit back and watch what happens and really pay close attention to whatever leads up to certain behaviors (stopping her short of hurting anyone, of course).
> Back to the idea that this way or that way isn't working. It really helps to get clear on what everyone means by that. What would it look like if whatever it was did work? Do you want a child who will instantly obey? Do you want a child that expresses empathy? What are the principles behind what you are trying to do?
> ...


Tonight I did just that. I really tried to stay on top of Finn so he didn't 'bother' her. I think a big thing is she needs to decompress. I'm the same way so I cannot blame her. She needs quiet time to play alone w/o someone watching/bugging her (her word, bugging). I also think she feels like the alpha child b/c she's older, so if she wants to play in the kitchen with the gate open, she should be able to. It shouldn't even be an issue. She's bossy. Again, like me.

Working to me honestly would be her expressing these feelings in a way that I could understand, and that didn't infringe on Finn's right to not be hurt physically. She's totally in the right to have time to do her thing, to want what she wants, to do what she wants to do. To have the things she wants. But she isn't right in hitting or hurting her brother. I don't want her to just do what I say, but I want her to understand that what I'm saying is fair, and I want her to want to follow what I model. Which is fairness, generosity, fun, love.

What would I do in that situation? Hmm. If I were feeling ballsy I might go down and ask if she would like me to watch him for a min. If she said no then that would be that. I would play into whatever she said just so I could get a minute with the child to comfort him. But ... Idk. It really depends. If the adult seemed really nasty or confrontational I might not intervene at all. Sad. It is sad that we can't just help out each other, you know??


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I didn't have fertile CM so I'm probably fine. I usually O around CD 13-15. I'm not temping, just charting CM. But yeah, I was just like uhhhh.....

Can you set up some of Nora's toys in her room so she can go in there and play alone?

MW, that lady is so toxic. If the program isn't going to get rid of her, I'd have to really think about continuing to go. Does it upset the boys when she acts like that?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I didn't have fertile CM so I'm probably fine. I usually O around CD 13-15. I'm not temping, just charting CM. But yeah, I was just like uhhhh.....
> 
> Can you set up some of Nora's toys in her room so she can go in there and play alone?


Sigh ok ok!









I do! I will try again. It will be so easy if she did that!

I'm pinning like mad. Nora's party will be so fun!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Only one more baseball game and we are done. I asked Ethan how he felt about it and he still wanted to go. I don't think we'll participate in this league again. I don't think they took her behavior seriously. I overheard some other people talking about how the guy in charge told her the only reason she was being dismissed was because people had complained. He didn't see an issue with her behavior.

I'm on cd34 and possible O based on CF 2 days ago. DH was really aggressive about dtd on my last fertile day, too. It really makes me wonder if he senses that and gets a major urge.







He used a condom but I actually thought that it would be ok if I got pg again.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I think you'll be ok and not run out of milk even if you are pg. Usually it isn't til the 2nd tri that things get hairy, right? I think if you push thru and Ava keeps up with solids it will be a natural transition.


The only thing that concerns me is that my supply dips so much right before AF and the first couple of days of AF. I usually have to pull from the freezer at least one night during AF. But if she stops drinking during the night, maybe it would be ok? When I left this afternoon, she had taken about 6 oz all day. I left 2 oz with the babysitter and there was 6 oz in the fridge. I wonder if any will be left when I get home. I just really don't want to have to switch her over to cow's milk. I'd rather her just choose to give up the nap/bedtime bottles, you know? Ah well, can't worry about it now. What's done is done.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 


> I'm on cd34 and possible O based on CF 2 days ago. DH was really aggressive about dtd on my last fertile day, too. It really makes me wonder if he senses that and gets a major urge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm convinced that our DHs can smell when we are fertile. Now that I'm getting more sleep, I think it would be ok if I got pg again too. Except for being concerned about losing my milk.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Annie - if she's taking in so little breastmilk as is, I really think it will be a natural transition (should you get pregnant - but even if you don't) - I was really surprised, that as young as Norah is, she really didn't need to be supplemented, she just ramped up her solids. and we really do mostly almond or coconut milk, though she sometimes gets cows milk at the grandparents' but this is just as a beverage to drink, not really a substitute for breastmilk.

Gabe was much better last night, usually I am holding him when he gets all "gabe no share mommy" but last night I was walking around with cranky Norah and he started. I told him that it was Norah's turn for mommy time, and I would come sit with him in a minute. He pouted a little, but was ok, eventually I passed her off to DH to put to bed, and went and sat with DS until he decided he wanted to go to bed. it was only 8:30, and he really wasn't ready, but whatever. I think it took about an hour for him to fall asleep, but still, not too bad!

I need to work on potty training. He is so ready. I think I just need to go cold turkey and not let myself think about how much easier it is somedays to just put him in a diaper. *sigh* I wish DH would help more with this.

Re: kid at baseball . . .is he of similiar age as one of yours that isn't playing? I might go down and ask if he wanted to play with Kellen and Dylan. But you only have one more game, and it sounds like this league is not a good fit for your family. Poor kid.

Carrie: I LOVE planning parties! It's so much work, but fun too! I can't wait to see what Nora's birthday looks like. I am going to have DH taking crazy amounts of pictures of Norah's party. Hope he has plenty of memory on his card! I think I am crazy for inviting so many people, but it will be ok.

And then we have my Dad's celebration after. Steaks, corn on the cob, . . . .and he is getting FIREWORKS! LOL only him. It's his 50th, so why not? And my sister can't bother herself to come down for a couple hours. UGH.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

OB appointment went well - Heart rate is about 150 (which tells me nada, since both Gabe and Norah stayed there too) - measuring right on target.

Dont find out gender until November 8th. To avoid the serial ultrasounds I had with both prior pregnancies, we are holding off until the baby is abit bigger so we can see everything. I was hoping to find out sooner, but oh well.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Carrie: I LOVE planning parties! It's so much work, but fun too! I can't wait to see what Nora's birthday looks like. I am going to have DH taking crazy amounts of pictures of Norah's party. Hope he has plenty of memory on his card! I think I am crazy for inviting so many people, but it will be ok.
> 
> And then we have my Dad's celebration after. Steaks, corn on the cob, . . . .and he is getting FIREWORKS! LOL only him. It's his 50th, so why not? And my sister can't bother herself to come down for a couple hours. UGH.


I feel the same!

I also feel like I just can't do simple. It needs to be all or nothing. Sigh.

Fireworks are illegal in NJ! Are they legal there? We can't even buy them here, we have to go to PA. There are state troopers all over out there and they catch so many ppl coming back into NJ with fireworks.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> OB appointment went well - Heart rate is about 150 (which tells me nada, since both Gabe and Norah stayed there too) - measuring right on target.
> 
> Dont find out gender until November 8th. To avoid the serial ultrasounds I had with both prior pregnancies, we are holding off until the baby is abit bigger so we can see everything. I was hoping to find out sooner, but oh well.


YAYYY for a good strong hb!

Ok - Nov 8 isn't that far off! We can make it! Any gut feeling? What pg does this one feel more like?

Have a gender reveal party!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Oh, yeah, way legal. Dad had a friend that's a distributor so he can get the professional looking ones. You don't even need a license to shoot them off. Crazy.

But, the kids love them, so it should be alot of fun.

I have a *feeling* this one is a boy. Hard to say what pregnancy it feels like; I didn't have a big difference in Gabe and Norah's.

We are thinking about a family dinner with gender reveal, but it honestly, for me, hinges on our families' reaction to the pregancy. If MIL can act a little happy, we'll do the the dinner. If she is super grouchy and whatever, then I'm not going to try to make it more exciting for her. Poo on that. I think my family will be ok. They don't often surprise me in their reactions.

November 8th isn't very far. But I was hoping for a little sooner .. . .it's silly, but there is a big consignment sale coming up, and I wanted to shop!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Oh, yeah, way legal. Dad had a friend that's a distributor so he can get the professional looking ones. You don't even need a license to shoot them off. Crazy.
> 
> ...


That's not silly!!
I say go off your gut. I bought boy clothes at around 14 or 15 weeks b/c I just *knew*. I was so right! But then again my pg was DRASTICALLY different from the last one so I had that going on as well.

Poo on them! I hope they are at least a little happy. Norah and Gabe are so super awesome!! Another one will be too!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Figured out Ava's costume. I'm going to use her tutu from her birthday outfit, put her in a white onesie and I got a pair of orange fairy wings from Target. So she's going to be a fairy. I may try to put glitter on her face but she may freak about that. She picked out a purple jack-o-lantern bucket for her candy so she'll be red, orange and purple color-coordinated.

So EWCM showed up today. We DTD at 2 AM on CD 9 so would you count that as CD 8 or CD 9? I've always counted it as CD 8 but it's never really mattered before. Today is CD 10. What do you think?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh and I decided to go ahead and schedule a 15 month WBV for Ava. We won't be doing any shots but since the question of whether or not she has Noonan's is still on the table, I'd at least like to have the height/weight data from this age so we can see if she is continuing on her growth curve or starting to drop off. I've gotten so many comments this week from people that think she is so much younger than she is. I guess it's because she isn't walking yet because she's not *that* small. I had talked to DH last week and he didn't have an opinion one way or the other about having a WBV. He did ask why we weren't going the MMR, Hep A and Variecella and I told him why. He accepted my reasons.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Figured out Ava's costume. I'm going to use her tutu from her birthday outfit, put her in a white onesie and I got a pair of orange fairy wings from Target. So she's going to be a fairy. I may try to put glitter on her face but she may freak about that. She picked out a purple jack-o-lantern bucket for her candy so she'll be red, orange and purple color-coordinated.
> 
> So EWCM showed up today. We DTD at 2 AM on CD 9 so would you count that as CD 8 or CD 9? I've always counted it as CD 8 but it's never really mattered before. Today is CD 10. What do you think?


What cycle day is today? Meh, I still think your chances are slim, tbh. I wouldn't worry too too much.

Cute costume idea!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Oh and I decided to go ahead and schedule a 15 month WBV for Ava. We won't be doing any shots but since the question of whether or not she has Noonan's is still on the table, I'd at least like to have the height/weight data from this age so we can see if she is continuing on her growth curve or starting to drop off. I've gotten so many comments this week from people that think she is so much younger than she is. I guess it's because she isn't walking yet because she's not *that* small. I had talked to DH last week and he didn't have an opinion one way or the other about having a WBV. He did ask why we weren't going the MMR, Hep A and Variecella and I told him why. He accepted my reasons.


People making comments = rude and uncalled for. She is petite! What the heck!? I don't get why anyone should/does comment on the size/age ratio of any baby. It doesn't really matter.

I get it the other way tho and am annoyed.

Today a creepy older man followed me and the kids at the craft store, hounding me a bit as to why they weren't in school. I ignored him, then finally turned and said, "They're small children. With their mother. Do you need help with something??" and he then told me he used to be a barber and that Finn 'needed to go see him' b/c his hair was looking unruly. I said I'm not ready to cut off his curls (trying to get away) and he said, "i hate to tell you miss but he's going to have poker straight hair." and I just turned the aisle. CREEP. WTH??


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ugh, total creep! I agree, people should keep their comments to themselves but it's like they can't help it when I tell them how old Ava is, they invariably blurt out "Oh she's really small!" I wouldn't be concerned except for the other Noonan's markers.

So today is CD 10. I'm sure it's a long shot but here's the data. DTD at 2 AM on CD 9. EWCM showed up around 4 PM CD 10. I should just stop thinking about it.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Annie - what's done is done. I'd keep an eye on stuff, but really - I had no clue I was fertile when we conceived Norah. I thought my fertile time had already passed for that cycle. Guess I was wrong. There is no need to freak out now. Wait another 2 weeks, and then you can freak out 

Her costume sounds adorable!

Carrie: I had no idea your Nora was so bothered by Halloween! Gabe is bothered by blood now, mom and dad are going to have to stop watching the bloodier procedurals while he's up there (as in my parents) But so far, just seems to like the words dark and scary - I don't think he's actually scared. I have no tips on Nora's reaction. It's hard because that stuff is EVERYWHERE.

Getting psyched for Norah's party tomorrow! A little nervous about so many people (honestly it will be like 50 people, I think, and that just seems like a lot), balancing the different groups - my family, DH's family, and our church friends - and announcing our big news. The church friends I think will be truly happy and excited. I hope that feeling is contagious among the more skeptical in the group.

Baking cupcakes and decorating them today. Norah's smash cake is baked, and we add the final decorations today. My cake decorator friend is coming over for dinner and she's going to help us decorate the cupcakes. So much to do!

Rude store comments - Carrie that was just way creepy! And you know, Finn may have straight hair later (Nora does, I think) but all the more reason to keep his curls! ugh.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Can't wait to see pics of Norah's party! I hope the big reveal goes well. Did anyone read anything in to your friend's comment on FB the other day about Norah needing to get used to being carried less?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I don't think so - I think it was something about tandem wearing, and I obviously do that some (not as often as Gabe would like) as it is. I think it could have been interpreted that I will be doing it for a bit more yet.

I am so glad I already have that skill! It is going to come in so handy with the newbie.

How's Ms. Ava doing?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Yes, the tandem wearing skill will definitely come in handy with the new squish! Ava is having a tough emotional week. Sheis having a hard time integrating her desire to walk and talk with her limited skills in both areas. She gets very frustrated with me when I don't guess correctly. I'm trying to stay patient but more than once I've said "I'm sorry. I don't know what you want." and had to put her down and walk away for a moment.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ewwww, Carrie! That is strange and creepy.

Annie ~ She's over a year old so if she stopped drinking mama milk that would be ok. I don't see why you'd ever need to give her cow's milk. I mean, you can if you want but I don't think it, or any other "milk", is needed once a baby/child weans.

I would probably count 2 am dtd as cd9 rather than cd8. When do you usually O? It would have to be by cd13 or 14 at the very, very latest for pg to be a possibility. So, if that's your norm, than I'd say it is a possibility but a very slim one.

Kat ~ Don't do any shopping based on your gut. This baby is a girl! I just know it.







Glad the prenatal went well.

The crying kid at baseball was probably around Kellen's age. I didn't see him until we were leaving. This mom was in charge of one of the other boys on the team last night and she was awful. After the game he ran off and she couldn't find him for a minute. (He was only over with the other team so not far or completely run away.) I can understand her being upset about that. I would be, too. But in the process of yelling at him for running off she told him that while she is in charge of him he is one of her kids so she can whip him like she does her own. WTF?! How is that ever ok to say to someone else's child even if you wouldn't actually do it? Nasty, stupid person.

I think I'm forgetting something.

Sean is gone and I'm in a funk. It happens to me every time. 3 weeks on my own while trying to get everyone ready for Halloween. Plus, I have the trip to the mountains with my mom the weekend before Halloween. Ugh! What was I thinking? We're going again with Sean in November so I don't need to go now.

Oh, fireworks. Some are legal here in NC, but if we want really good ones, we go to SC. So, yeah, very legal in SC. South of the Border!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

IIRC, everything in NC must be ground based. Not nearly as fun.

Poor Ava! Gabe is nearly 3 and still I have no idea what he wants sometimes.

MW: stay home. If it were me, I'd go, because gettting out of the house helps lift me from a funk. But I know that doesn't always work for you.

Ha! I have guessed wrong myself before, so I am not buying anything until I know! LOL Re-reading Norah's birth story has got me amazed that I will be doing that AGAIN in just a few months. I am not ready, but I will manage. Need to go to the chiro more. My back is awful , and hips are no better.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ugh, MW, the thought of that trip by yourself makes me tired! I'm sure your mom wants to see the boys though. Traveling these days, especially since I'm doing all the trips by myself, is really hard. Every time I get ready to go, I think it would just be easier to stay home. And it would but I would miss out on the trip. So I push through and enjoy myself once I'm on the road. I usually O between CD 13-15 so on the outer edge of possible.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Annie-- How nerve wracking!! Even though I know you've been talking about starting to get ready for another, I can imagine it's a totally different feeling when it's actually in front of you as a possibility!

Kat-- You can TOTALLY do labor again. You will be ready, even if you're not now. Your body is always ready when it needs to be.

MW-- Can't imagine the up and down it must be every time he leaves and comes home. I can't remember, what's he gone for this time? Hopefully the time will go quickly.

Carrie-- I had to stop looking at birthday stuff and just concentrate on finishing the basement so I have somewhere to HOLD a birthday. Otherwise I'd be in the same place-- house a disaster and party perfectly planned! lol

Ok, so I told you guys a little bit about this spin off "simple living" group my AP group started. She posts one focus task every week, from budgeting to purging stuff or remember to celebrate the season or various other things. Little by little, I think it's finally working. I was just thinking this morning, that I'm finally feeling at a point of... like maintainance. The kitchen, Tenleys room, and the living room, and usually our room, are clean every night before I go to bed. This means I wake up, already caught up. And then I'm just doing little things throughout the day and picking up the messes we make, instead of trying to dig ourselves out from under a mess. I've gotten into a good groove of doing things now, instead of waiting until I 'have the energy', and then it piling up and being overwhelming. It's still taking work, but it's so nice to feel like i have time for me and for Tenley, rather than needing to be go go go to try to keep things manageable. I've been trying (and mostly succeeding) to have everything cleaned before Tenley goes to bed, so that from 830 or so onwards, it's all me time to relax.

Also-- She SLEPT last night!! Went to bed around 9ish I think, up at about 10, and then again I think at about 1130 or so. And then she slept I think until 130, and then came into bed with us, and then I -think- she actually slept until like 5!! I was pretty out of it last night, but I don't remember getting up before then. And then she slept again until 7ish, and then did her nurse-every-10-minutes thing until 8, when she got up. Then she had a 70 minute nap this morning too. And... then she refused to go down for her afternoon nap, but conked out at like 630, and has now been asleep for almost an hour. I'm not sure what that'll do for her night, but we'll see. She had a late nap yesterday too, though it wasn't as long.

Dinner with my mom/stepdad and siblings tomorrow at my moms new house. It should be fun, plus it's a meal I don't have to cook or clean up after!!

Ok, off to eat cake before Tenley wakes up! lol


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I had a whole post typed out but hit something and it all disappeared.

JJ ~ Yay for sleep and for getting things clean! I realized that I was wrong about Dylan's sleep when I said he was waking 2-3 times a night. I think it's actually only once. Last night he nursed to sleep around 11, nursed once in the middle of the night and then not again until the morning. When I finally decided I needed to get up because I thought it was around 9 am I looked at the clock and it was already 11:10! We were all still sleeping!

I was hoping my mom would come here and then drive with me to Ashland. When I asked she said maybe. She thought she might just want to meet me there. Hopefully, I can convince her to come here first because that it would make it a lot easier for me.

Oooh, Annie, that's getting dicey.







KUP

So, funny little bit of useless info. I was watching Judge Judy tonight and Ryan said his girlfriend had been on Judge Judy a few years ago. I googled it and found her!







I just thought that was funny.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Another baby would definitely make things even more crazy around here but that doesn't worry me. What I'm most concerned with getting pg right now would be losing my milk before Ava is done drinking it. She still has a high suck need, especially to go to sleep. So if I do end up pg, I would have to do some work transtioning her to drinking cow's milk from a bottle. Other than that, as long as this theoretical baby is a girl, all I would need is another crib/mattress and two carseats. I have enough dipes even if Ava doesn't potty learn for a while.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW, that's so funny! What was she on there for?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I'm not sure, exactly. It seemed to be something about some 20-somethings at a party and trashing the place. I'll have to ask her when she gets home. She said she lost but didn't have to pay anything. Everyone got a free trip and $500 for going on the show. The plaintiff got $3200 but none of the defendants had to pay it.

I keep forgetting to post my chart. I think, maybe, possible O. I've had 4 days of CF dry up. So, now I'll just be watching for







. If it shows up too soon, I'll know I didn't O. But if







shows in 12+ days, I'll assume I'm Oing again.


My Ovulation Chart


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

That's funny! One of my step-cousins was on a maury povitch, jerry springer type show years and years ago. We watched the show, but it was SO obvious that they'd been coached about how to act and what to say.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Another baby would definitely make things even more crazy around here but that doesn't worry me. What I'm most concerned with getting pg right now would be losing my milk before Ava is done drinking it. She still has a high suck need, especially to go to sleep. So if I do end up pg, I would have to do some work transtioning her to drinking cow's milk from a bottle. Other than that, as long as this theoretical baby is a girl, all I would need is another crib/mattress and two carseats. I have enough dipes even if Ava doesn't potty learn for a while.


That's the nice thing about AP in general and just not having this insane need to have so much -stuff-. We could cope financially/materially right now really well with another baby. My brain however... lol not so much.

I've gone the last two weeks, only washing diapers once a week. And I still had some left over.







I guess I really do need to stop buying. Except the peachy ones (the ones tenley did the photos for) come out next week... and I want some... lol


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

JJ, do you have a frontloader? I have a toploader and I had to start washing every other day because I think I was trying to wash too many dipes at once and they weren't rinsing well. So now I don't have as many stink issues with my microfiber dipes since I'm washing smaller loads.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh and Ava HATES her fairy wings. She doesn't even want me to wear them. So she'll probably wear her glow in the dark skeleton pjs. I'm still going to try to wear the wings if she won't. Maybe she'll be in a better mood on Halloween. She was so pissy today. At one point, she was upset because I laid on the living room floor. :/


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Oh and Ava HATES her fairy wings. She doesn't even want me to wear them. So she'll probably wear her glow in the dark skeleton pjs. I'm still going to try to wear the wings if she won't. Maybe she'll be in a better mood on Halloween. She was so pissy today. At one point, she was upset because I laid on the living room floor. :/


Oh hugs! I hate days like that. There's still a few weeks so maybe she'll change her mind.

Weve got a top load, but I can fit all her dipes in there. I usually try to do them every 3 days or so, but with the basement renos right now our washer is unhooked, so we hooked it up temp last week and his week I did them at my in laws. But yeah, clean now, but they stunk soooo bad and will def need to be summed out now.

Ummm so... The prob with a baby who sleeps when she NEVER sleeps, is that when she does.... Mama can't sleep!! Guys, we put herro bed just after 830 and she hasn't woken up once!! It's been 3.5 hours and I can't fall asleep! After 45min of tossing and turning I finally got up and grabbed my phone.

I don't even want to think it, but could you imagine if this was 'it' and she started sleepin normally? And i was rested, and she was rested? I'm too scared to hope!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

JJ, I hope for your sake that it is the start of her new normal. I remember those days of staying up until midnight so I could catch another wakeup but she didn't wake up! Still getting used to going to bed at 9:30-10 PM when she's having a good night. Tonight is not a good night. Put her down at 8:45 PM and she's been up 3 times so far and it's just after 3 AM. I'm pumping because she's gone through everything fresh I had out. I hope these teeth she's working on will finally break through!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

On washing dipes, I read recently that letting them sit too long between washes can cause them to break down faster. I never really thought about it but it makes sense. All that ammonia and poo acid and whatever could do some damage. Now I'm wondering if that's why so many of my dipes fell apart so quickly. I usually go 4-6 days between washes. The article I read said the dipes should be washed every other day. I'm going to try washing mine more often, at least not go more than 3 days.

I think maybe DH does a lot more cleaning in the mornings than I realized. Every morning since he's been gone the kitchen has been completely trashed from Ryan making food in the middle of the night. He'll clean it when he gets up but I can't wait that long. There isn't room to do anything in there. So, I'll have to clean at least some of it.

Oh, btw, do you all remember what Ryan got arrested for? Well, he says he's not done that for 3 weeks now. He decided it cost too much money so he quit.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

oh god guys. I'm floating.

Bed at 840ish, slept until 1240 (4 HOURS!) then was up at 140ish, and then woke up once more, I think it might have been around 4am? I don't remember. And then at 6am when she woke up, we brought her into bed, and she nursed a few times between 6-8 when she got out of bed. Oh, it feels so wonderful!! Even the 1240 wakeup, she was like... barely awake. She nursed halfheartedly for maybe 2 minutes, and then I was very easily able to unlatch her and put her back.

The funny part is, I actually did try to go to bed last night fairly early. I had my book and I was just reading until sleepy... and it was coming, so finally I just shut off the light anyways. That's when I tossed and turned for almost an hour, so I got up and grabbed the phone again to play on there for a bit.

Feeling SO hopeful about this!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I can see how leaving them longer would break down the material sooner. Happy to hear Ryan has stopped. I don't know how anyone affords it honestly. My friend was having trouble getting pg last year and one day she asked me if that could affect sperm quality. Turns out her DH was smoking EVERY day. Who has that kind of extra cash laying around? He stopped and the next cycle she was pg. Could have been a coincidence but who knows?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ I do that a lot, can't sleep when the kids are sleeping if it's out of the ordinary.

Annie ~ It wouldn't surprise me if that was more than coincidence after smoking every day.

The boys have a birthday party to go to tomorrow. It's at a big indoor amusement type place with bowling and arcade games and other stuff. That will get me out of the house for a few hours. Too bad it's with the family in my neighborhood that doesn't speak to me.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

akind1, I can't wait to hear how the big reveal went! I love the pic of Norah that her doula posted!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> akind1, I can't wait to hear how the big reveal went! I love the pic of Norah that her doula posted!


Ok I'm dying here too!! From your post, it sounds like maybe some people -weren't- that supportive? 

Yeah, so two nights of great sleep, last night was sooooo bad! Like back to every 45 minutes. And we spent so much time outside and out with family, I thought for sure, she'd sleep well. We'll see how tonight goes. She's been up once, in about an hour and 40 minutes. I think it was a burp that wouldn't come out, because as soon as she burped, she passed out on my shoulder again. THe night Could go either way.

Tomorrow we have to be up at 6am to drive DH to work, which should put us down for an early morning nap (we didn't have a morning nap today at all), and then we've got dr appt at 1130, and then busy afternoon of running around and a playdate.

Got the floor laid in the laundry room tonight!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Haha, so someone read between the lines of that one, LOL. yeah. MIL was PISSED. I think there may be permament damage. She told DH (not where I could hear her, but where I am certain other people could) that she thought she had raised him better than that, that she was disappointed in him, and that he was irresponsible, and how dare we bring another kid into the world, how can we afford to when we haven't repaid our debt to her? (on this last note, I asked DH what debt???? the last small loan he asked of her, he tried to pay back but she wouldn't let him) So, yeah. He's not speaking to her. And she's supposed to have Gabe this weekend, and asked (after her tirade!) whether she'd get him Friday or Saturday. He said, curtly, he'd let her know. Poor DH. If I had heard, I would have given her a piece of my mind, better that I didn't. We'll see how things go. There is no unsaying what was said.

Everyone else, was surprised. My parents (who we live with and see everyday) had NO idea. but everyone else also offered their congratulations. I am just glad to have it over with. My heart hurts for DH - he and his mom have always been close, and this is a very heavy blow.

JJ: Hooray for sleep! and Renovation!

It's my birthday today. I am going to be cleaning, potty training, and eating ice cream cake. Woot! 31.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I missed the drama on Facebook. I'd be done with my MIL if she said that.

I also missed Ethan's dental appointment today. It was at 12:10. I forgot all about it. That's why I usually make appointments after 2 pm. I'm just not ready to go anywhere before then.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Uh, yeah, I'd be DONE as well. I'm done w/family over wayyyy less offensive things. That' just complete lack of support. Idk.

I'm so happy you're getting lots of support and love from everyone else! This is wonderful!! I can't wait to see pics of Norah's party, too!

Busy busy busy here! I'm glad I got the yard cleaned up b/c it's rainy out today. Working inside today with a very stir crazy 4 year old and a whiny teething 1 year old! So much tidying up to do. So much. Ugh.

My friend had her baby last night! I'm so happy and excited for her and cannot WAIT to visit with them and see her baby. She had an amazing natural water birth at the hospital and is just so in love. Yay for new babies!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I keep forgetting about my diapering and bedtime dilemmas. Dylan hates to be changed and have a new diaper put on. It's so exhausting fighting with him about it. I've been letting him go without a diaper almost all the time at home but that is presenting problems, too. For one, I have to constantly clean up pee and poo messes all over the house. The pee is not much of a big deal but the poo is. When he falls asleep for a nap I have to try to get a waterproof pad down while holding him and not wake him. Tricky.

The other diapering issue is that he poos in his night time diaper every night right before we're ready to go to sleep. I think he does it on purpose. It doesn't matter if I put a diaper on him early and change him again right before bed or if I wait until bed to put the diaper on him. It doesn't matter if he just pooed. He'll poo again. It's getting really annoying because I have to get up out of bed when I'm half asleep to change him.

The other bedtime dilemma is that I don't know how to dress him for it. He kicks the covers off on purpose. Every time I cover him, he kicks them off again. He gets cold to the touch but won't keep the covers on. He hates footed sleepers, though. He screams and cries and pulls at them when I put them on him. Do you think he's not really too cold in just a diaper and t-shirt or onesie even if he feels cold to me?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Dipes are a battle here too. I have to change him on the changing table (I had to get the foam pad out, I hadn't been using it, just the floor) and I have to give him something to hold/play with or something, and even then it's a fight. I dread changes!! DREAD!!! And he always gets his hands down in there and gets poo all over and ugh, just ugh. Can we potty train yet!?

Hmm. I'll put some thought into the pooping right before bed. Hmm Hmm Hmm.

Finn took a 3 HOUR NAP today! W/o a single peep or anything! Love when that happens. Making him some lunch now. Got a bit of straightening up done while he was out, played actual blues clues with Nora, and made some crafts.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I still take Dylan to the toilet sometimes but he wants nothing to do with it. He likes to sit and climb on his potty on the floor but won't sit long enough to do any business in it.

Giving him something to hold/play with helps some, too. But, yeah, even then it's still a fight a lot of the time. He'll even run away when he sees me get a diaper. Then when I'm not looking he'll run up, grab the diaper and throw it.









Luckily, Dylan hasn't gotten his hands in his diaper after pooping. He does reach and grab while being changed. DH gets so upset about that. It's kind of funny how scared he is of baby poo.

Oh, and on the cold thing, Ethan and Kellen both say they get cold without covers. I don't know how to keep Dylan covered without the sleepers but he won't settle when he has a sleeper on.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

If MIL and FIL lived separately, we would be done - at least for a while. But Gabe adores his granddaddy, and FIL is fine, so I can't mess with that relationship. *sigh* she texted me happy birthday this morning, like nothing was wrong (like DH wouldn't tell me about what she said. Well, she and FIL don't really talk ever, so maybe she thought he wouldn't???) IDK . . .

Family drama. right before a boat load of family holidays. yay.

Diapers. Norah's not a fan, but if I let her run naked and clean from me once it's off, she usually will come back when I call her to get a fresh one. She just needs a spurt of mishief.
MW: I could be wrong, of course, but the answer might mean more diapers, not less - it's such a rare thing for him, if he's naked most of the time, that he rebels. Maybe if it happened more often as part of routine he'd get used to it? IDK. We do all changes on the floor. Only hard part is keeping Norah's hands out of Gabe's diaper during his change. The two of them always have a poop within minutes of each other. it's creepy.

Carrie: are you not partied out yet?? I am! but I still have one to go! need to get addressing and mailing those invites . . .yay.

pooping before bed - maybe it's a good time to start doing some EC? if you are up to/into that?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

akind1, that totally stinks. I'm sorry you guys have this drama right now.

MW, I think I agree w/akind1. You probably need to do more dipe time, not less, to get him back in the habit so to speak. Or you could just do full out EC. Pooping before bed, that's an interesting one. I don't even think EC would help that since you say even if he poops a little earlier, he will still do it before bed. Maybe tell him it's a pain and that you'd prefer if he did it earlier? These kids understand a lot!

AFM, DH let Ava have dipe free time yesterday because she's got a bit of a rash. I have a little IKEA potty that I've been keeping in the living room in case she wants to try to pee. Apparently she peed on the carpet and after DH cleaned it up, he went in the bedroom. She went and sat on the IKEA potty, peed and then tried to drag it to the bathroom to dump in the big toilet like I do.







Pee EVERYWHERE! At least DH has a sense of humor about it all!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> She went and sat on the IKEA potty, peed and then tried to drag it to the bathroom to dump in the big toilet like I do.
> 
> 
> ...










Ava is just too much!! Such a smart girl!!

I'm here reading but i'm running arond like crazy this week party planning. I'm so excited! I'm just hoping the weather holds out so we can use the bounce house outside. I don't mind chilly just please no rain!!!!

I think I have everything. Now I just have to start organize when I'm going to bake/make things and deep clean the house. I'm not partied out! I got a 2nd wind!!! And I'm going to need it b/c I'm going over the top again! LOL!

O/T I am really torn about this election cmoing up. I think I may have convinced my MIL to vote libertarian, lol. We got into such a heated convo on the ride to the baby shower and I convinced her if she wasn't happy with either candidate she didn't have to choose either one. She'd never considered that option.

Obamacare scares me. But you know what?? I can't stand Romney for other reasons. I've never been so UGH about an election before!!!

ok - off to clean! I'm around!

Kat - how was your bday?

Finn is starting to say phrases. Whats that? Whats this? He even says "outside" and points out the window. Yesterday I slept in a bit and Chris was watching the kids in the am. My foot was hanging out of the covers and I was half awake. Finn walks in, sees my foot, starts to tickle it and says, "TICKLE TICKLE TICKLE!" It was the best way to wake up ever!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh Lauri!! I told Rob about Ava and the potty and he laughed so hard. I can just imagine it!

Carrie-- it's funny, because coming from obviously a totally different health care system, I can't imagine not having the universal coverage. Now that I have more friends in the states, every time I have to go to a doctor for something, I can't help but think how much it would cost them and it makes me choke. Even right now for instance, DH just got supplemental health coverage through his work. It's costing us about $140 a month. That seems INSANE to us, to pay that much. But it's 100% of our dental up to $900 a year I think, and then things like 100% of massage up to $800, and 100% of other "allied health" for an additional $400 (chiro, naturopath, etc), and then like $250 for vision, and a bunch of other stuff. So we figured it was worth it. But I can't imagine paying -more- than that in insurance for normal visits, etc. I know it's totally different when you've lived your whole life like that though, and I know that there are people here in Canada who have not been as lucky as I have with being able to get timely care.

On a side note- we did the calculations, and we can each (including Tenley! I'm totally taking her for baby massage and craniosacral therapy!) get a massage every 6 weeks or so, and have it be totally covered. I am so excited to take advantage of that, and the chiro again. I booked a massage for the spa Nov10th, and DH and I are going to do a fancy date-day, and then I'll find a normal massage practice after that, but my gosh, I need that spa day SO badly!

So... Tenley had two great nights, and then two crappy nights, but she's obviously on the upswing. It feels like something in her brain finally clicked, and I can see the difference in how she's sleeping. She's crying out, but only like once, and then rolling over and going back to sleep before we can even do anything. Last night we put her to bed at 8, she slept until 930ish (1.5 hours), and then slept until 12 (2.5 hours), and then slept from 12 until almost 5:45am !!!! (5 hours 45 minutes!!) She has only done that I think twice before, and not in months and months. It felt SO amazing!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I hear you. But then look at the trouble you had getting homebirth mw! I'd just rather the federal gov't stay out of personal health care, and rather let the individual decide what plan and coverage he/she needs. It seems so nice that you don't have to pay for it, or that it's offered to you on a grand scale -- but then they also tell you what is covered, who can and can't be covered, who you can and can't see. I don't like it. It makes me feel very uncomfortable. Idk. I have to read more.

This is what I'm doing til midnight and why I'm so tired!! Reading about healthcare!! LOL!!

Yay for sleep!!!

How much do you think is training and how much do you think is age? I'm curious.

Last night Finn nursed down at 9, and then woke again at 11:15 or so. I nursed him down and then fell asleep and he woke up AGAIN at 1230. I was like no. Uh -uh. My nips were tired and sore and I was so tired. I got up, tried rocking, shushing -- the whole time he's LOUD wailing in my arms, throwing his head back, the whole nine. I did that for one minute. I was firm. I just said, "Sleepytime. Bed time." and lay down with him with him on his tummy. He kept crying for one more minute (I looked at my watch) while I rubbed his back, then he settled and was snoring.

I never would have done that with Nora. I never would have let her fuss like that. And he's LOUD!! Idk why all of a sudden I'm ok with it, but I am. I don't feel like he's that stressed or hungry, I really just think he's mad. And if I can comfort him thru being mad so that he can fall asleep, I'm ok with that.

He woke one more time thru the night and then again at 630. Both those times I nursed. I need to come up with a better game plan if this nightweaning is really going to actually work.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie: i am the same way about this election. Having experienced "universal" coverage through the military, there is no way in hell I want that on a grand scale.
Our family coverage is wicked expensive. It's good, but, man. If I didnf have kids, I would drop it and pay out of pocket in a heartbeat.

Jj, yay for the upswing!

Birthday was ok. Boring, but I got a little spending money, and that's nice.

I am entering the pregnancy phase of being hungry all the time, but still unable to eat much at once.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ugh, I don't even want to vote this election.

Good luck w/the rest of the party planning Baby_Cakes! I hope the rain holds off.

JJ, I'm glad you guys are getting more sleep! It's a gradual process but soon, you'll be on the other side. I promise!

AFM, O pains yesterday and CM drying up today so I'm pretty sure O was yesterday. I think we're safe then. That would put O at CD 14.

Oh, Ava tried to say my mom's dog's name today! It was so cute! His name is Zorro so she said "ZoZo".


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I hear you. But then look at the trouble you had getting homebirth mw! I'd just rather the federal gov't stay out of personal health care, and rather let the individual decide what plan and coverage he/she needs. It seems so nice that you don't have to pay for it, or that it's offered to you on a grand scale -- but then they also tell you what is covered, who can and can't be covered, who you can and can't see. I don't like it. It makes me feel very uncomfortable. Idk. I have to read more.
> 
> ...


True, I guess what they're trying to implement there is different than here-- there's no criteria, it's just -everybody- has the same coverage, and since it's totally universal, all the doctors are 'covered'. I think alberta does the two tier thing- where if you can pay, then you get to pay and see different doctors, but with the way ours is here, you don't have the problem with wanting to see a doctor who isn't covered. Our midwife problem is a totally different issue-- the province keeps trying to hire more, but nobody wants to come to manitoba. I can't blame them! lol

The sleep thing-- I think it's a combination. We haven't done really any more sleep work in weeks, other than the initial helping her figure out how to fall asleep in her own bed once she's settled and sleepy. I think she's just finally at a point where she can use that now. She was trying before, and you could -see- her getting upset when she couldn't fall asleep, and now it just seems like she's able to use those tools. What you describe with Finn last night is so much like it was like with Ten. There were times where -yes- you could tell she was hurt or sad or lonely or in pain... but there were also times when she just... didn't want to sleep, or couldn't fall asleep, even though she was obviously tired. Those times, I'm comfortable staying with her, so she knows I'm there, but also telling her that it IS sleep time, and helping her find ways to go to sleep. And we still do that- she's gotten tons better at falling asleep, and will often fall asleep nursing again, within only a few minutes, but if we've nursed for a long time, and she's sleepy but still not closing her eyes- I'll hug her tight, and then tell her it's time for bed, put her in her crib and sit there reading or something until she falls asleep. Sometimes she stands up and yells at me, sometimes she plays for 45 minutes, and sometimes she'll calm instantly if I rub her back for a few minutes. But it's so much better than it used to be- where if she wasn't falling asleep in my arms, I would try ot put her down and she would just shriek uncontrollably. Even in my arms half the time she was fighting it. It's like she has a better understanding know of "Oh, it's sleep time, ok. Well I'll close my eyes, and hum or talk to myself, and I can look up and see if my mom is still here... oh ok, she is. I'm going to try to get comfortable and see if I can figure this sleep thing out." Whereas before it was just "WTF Mommy put me down? SCREAMMMMMM!"

ok anyways, I've been interrupted like 6 times writing that, so I'm sure it's very disjointed.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> AFM, O pains yesterday and CM drying up today so I'm pretty sure O was yesterday. I think we're safe then. That would put O at CD 14.
> 
> Oh, Ava tried to say my mom's dog's name today! It was so cute! His name is Zorro so she said "ZoZo".


That's good news!

And so cute!! I love their little attempts at words!

So without going into a discussion, because I love you guys too much to get into a tense fight over it... Where do you guys stand on the pro choice/ pro life decision? It's been in the local news here a lot lately, and I've just found it's so funny, people who lean ways you wouldn't have expected. Just curious I guess.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I believe that life begins at conception. As such, I could never willingly end a life. I would prefer to see funds used to support women that find themselves with unintended pregnancies rather than funding procedures to kill the babies. That's where I stand.

Oh I forgot to tell you guys, Ava signed "hurt" today! Whatever teeth she's working on are really giving her hell. Lots of runny, teething poops and she practically moans in relief when I give her ibuprofen. I feel so bad for her but she won't keep her amber necklace on. Her regular babysitter had her baby last week so we're going over on Friday morning to meet the new baby! Yay!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I am pro life, in the sense that I believe terminating a life is wrong. However, I know women have been terminating pregnancies for a very long time. I think making it illegal will only send it (back) underground, and then it becomes a dangerous and riskier procedure. Then we risk 2 lives instead of one, and that's not an improvement. I very much agree with the pro choice sentiment for abortion to be safe, legal, and rare. We need to focus on pregnancy prevention.
Then there are so many fine lines to draw, like with high order multiples and selective reduction. I just see too many shades of gray to make a blanket statement.

I'm mobile or I'd respond more.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I'd keep Dylan in a diaper except that he keeps getting a nasty rash. I've actually been thinking that I may have to take him to the doctor because it won't completely go away. He gets better after a few days without a diaper but as soon as I put one on him it comes back.









I think Dylan completely slept through the night last night! I'm afraid to acknowledge or admit it because I don't want to find I've deluded myself.







I put a sleeper on him so maybe that helped.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Mw did you strip your dipes? Finn was getting hives on his belly. Stripping was my only option. Lol. Took 2 days!!

I'm pro choice. I just can't see government defining when life begins and declaring laws about that. I think it's personal. I think women are capable of deciding what's best for themselves, for the most part. In any case, I don't think either candidate is worthy of making the choice for all women.

I see what you're saying, jj. That is slightly different.

Oh Chris says ok to myrtle beach btw! I mentioned it and he says we can go!! Woo hoo!!!

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

WOOHOOO!!!! Yay Baby_Cakes! Best news I've heard all week!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie: woot! that is exciting stuff! So glad you can come, now we just have to pick dates, etc! I need a vacation.

MW: yay for STTN! that is fantastic. I think it miht be sleeper, might be age. who knows? TAKE IT. and fx for many repeats!

Diaper rash. I think I need to do a serious strip. maybe. Norah had a raised red rash on just on her front bits - not on her butt at all - put her in disposables and thick diaper cream for a few days, and now she still has a rash, but now it's not raised, and it's just sort of speckled. regardless of cloth or disposables or diaper cream. thoughts? She really hasn't eaten anything new.

AFU: I am 20 weeks today! 1/2 way through! 3 weeks and 1 day and we know the gender, I can't wait!

I know by a lot of pro-life circles, I'd be considered pro-choice - given that I don't want to make abortion illegal, etc. I can't define myself as pro-choice though, because I don't really believe that it is a woman's right to choose. However, women are going to make that choice regardless, so I think it's best we make it as safe as possible. (it's kind of how I feel about marijuana. I don't want to smoke it, and I don't really want anyone I love smoking it either. HOWEVER, I don't see the need to make it illegal, I'd rather it be legal, more easily regulated, etc - because people are going to smoke it - or bake it into brownies, or whatever)

And as to whether I think the government should be making that call, as to the legality or not, I really think it's outside of their scope. Seriously. The personhood amendments and all that freak me out (and I'm nominally Pro Life!) It's too much interference. If you look back at the history of abortion, it wasn't illegal until the men in government realized what women were doing. And then they got offended. (because obviously, a woman would only choose to end a pregnancy if it was caused by someone other than her husband SMH) IIRC, that was sometime in the mid to late 1800's. But women have been ending (or trying to end) pregnancies for probably the whole history of humanity. When I did a speech on this in college, there was a city in Northern Africa that was known for growing an effective abortifacient plant, so effective it was on their coinage, but that plant is now extinct, likely due to overuse. I think it should be a personal decision, certainly. From what I've read, late term terminations of healthy pregnancies are very, very rare (usually there is something very wrong with the baby) - But those are the hardest for me to swallow. If you have carried a pregnancy to viability, and by all accounts it's healthy, but don't want to raise it, let the baby be adopted.

I also have a beef with child support. I think men should support the children they help conceive, especially if conceived in a commited relationship, but should a man be on the hook for 18 years for a one night stand (especially since it is perfectly legal for the woman to terminate that same pregnancy without his knowledge?) That just sort of bugs me.

Sorry for the sort of rant. But it's a topic that I've done a lot of thought on.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

You raise a lot of good points, there, Kat.

My big thing is that while I personally wouldn't choose abortion (i think) for myself, it really depends on so many variables, and I like being able to think about it myself, and come up with what I believe would be right. I don't think it's fair that a bunch of stuffy old men sit around and think they can decide what is and isn't a "good reason" for an abortion or where they think life begins. Isn't that up to me and my beliefs and what i feel is morally right? Idk. It's a slippery slope. It's not like Im pro abortion (who is???) but I'm definitely anti - government being involved.

I'm with you too on the legality of drugs. The whole drug war just needs to end. Gary Johnson 2012 people!! LOL!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Oh, I agree. I don't think I'd choose it for myself under nearly all the circumstances I can think of (now if a baby I was carrying I know would be born dead, or not live long, I don't think I could carry that pregancy to term. That's about the only case where I just couldn't see another option)

Do I think even I, a sympathic female, should be making that choice for every woman? no. It's intensely personal decision. I wish the government could butt out of some areas (okay, a LOT of areas) and focus on areas that they could be making some really good changes. On, oh, I don't know . . . how about maternity leave? paid FMLA? something???

I am hoping for cooler weather, but it's still nearly 80 degrees all week.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think that, if anyone does not want to have to take care of a child, they should not have sex, male or female. Period! Simple! Of course, people won't do that but then that's the risk they take. And, of course, there are all kinds of birth control options that make the likelihood of a pregnancy much less. It's still a risk, though. I think we, as a society, need to do more to support parents and children rather than paying for unnecessary medical procedures. But, I also think that it shouldn't be up to the government to regulate reproduction.

I have stripped my diapers many times. I've also been treating them for yeast. I've been trying to treat his rash naturally and it's just not working. I'm going to try the nystatin/antibacterial cream I have for a week. If it still comes back, I'll take him to the doctor. Honestly, I'm scared to take him to the doctor because he's intact. I don't feel like having to fight with the doc about not retracting his foreskin, which I've had to do every time I've taken him or Kellen to the doc for anything like this or even just a check up.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Did you ask on the circ forum? They know so much about all kinds of rashes and oddities that might crop up. I'd start there if you dont find anything on google. I'm thinking if it isn't raised, crusty and red/swollen it probably isn't yeast.

Oh and yes! I def think they need to work more on getting care for kids that are HERE and helping moms stay home with them or at least stay home for awhile. It's redic that there is so much push for having every child all women get pg with, but then just saying oh well, go back to work right away, who cares who raises them?

I'm so beat! We've been staying up late the past few nights and while Finn is sleeping OK getting up early in addition stinks. Yawn.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: here is drmomma.org's list of foreskin friendly docs. I think the nearest to you is New Bern . . . http://www.drmomma.org/2007/01/foreskin-friendly-physicians.html I am happy to see our current pediatrician is on the (short) list for SC. We love our pediatric practice. wait is long, but they are so wonderfully crunchy. (pro-breastfeeding, extended breastfeeding, tandem nursing, babywearing and intact friendly. And flexible about vaccines)

Carrie - there just isn't enough coffee, is there? hope maybe you get an early bedtime or a rest with Finn.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I put Finn in bed for his nap and I dozed off for a bit. I woke up with a start thinking it was the morning and we overslept! Ha! Hate when that happens!! I only slept for 12 min. WTF body??? I def need to catch up on more than 12 min of sleep!!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Thanks, Kat. I never would have thought to look for a list like that. The few times I have looked for pediatricians friendly toward my practices there hasn't been anyone anywhere near me.

It's not an issue with his foreskin (most of the time) or penis. The rash is on his scrotum. The tip of his foreskin has become red and swollen a few times but that's not the main problem that keeps recurring. It started out as tiny red bumps. That cleared up and came back and cleared with the tip of his foreskin sometimes flaring up red and swollen. Now there's a big patch on the side of his scrotum next to his penis that is red and kind of shiny. It looks a lot like a burn.

When that showed up I decided to use the cream I have because it has an antibiotic in it as well as and antifungal. I figured that would clear it up regardless of which one it is or in case it's both now. If the cream doesn't work, I'll take him to the doc.

About his foreskin, it is completely detached. It has been from birth. Strange, I know, but I noticed it when he was a newborn and asked because I was worried that it wasn't attached to the glans at all. He can fully retract it himself and does sometimes. So, maybe I don't even need to worry anymore? IDK I still think that no one else should retract someone's foreskin without their consent even if it is completely detached.

I went grocery shopping today for the first time in a loooooong time. I must have looked lost because everyone in the store kept offering to help me.







I left all the kids home with Ryan, though, so it went fast.

Oh, and I totally jinxed myself with the sleep. I knew I shouldn't have said anything. I don't think Dylan settled at all last night. He was tossing and turning like crazy. I finally got up around 4:30 or 5:00 to change his diaper. He didn't have any poo and was barely wet. I put a clean diaper on him and just a t-shirt instead of the sleeper. He finally fell sleep about an hour after that but only for a short while and then tossed and turned some more until about 9:30 or 10. So, I have no idea why he slept so well the night before.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ava isn't sleeping well again. Maybe it's the age? She's on the verge of really trying to talk. She's working hard at imitating what we say. Oh and her tummy is so messed up from teething right now so she's pooping at like 6 AM, waking herself up and then can't go back to sleep. Ugh. And this afternoon, just as she was going down for her nap, she pooped so that woke her up and we had to start all over again.

The new babysitter is NOT working out. Which is a total bummer because it was so easy to just walk her next door. But when I took her over this afternoon, she started crying right away and was almost to the point of panic attack. The babysitter said she cried the whole 2 hrs on Monday.







So I had to take her to work with me and DH came and picked her up from there. Luckily, I had meetings and projects for the first couple of hours and wasn't on the phones. No clue what we're going to do for the rest of the time until her other babysitter is ready to start taking her again.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Poor Ava! I wonder if you can have someone come to your house?

MW: that is interesting - Gabe's started detaching around age 2 - he doesn't try to retract, he pulls it out longer. I only tried to see if it would back when he was having smegma pearls and I was concerned about it being swollen and him able to pee. (he was fine) I hope his rash clears up soon!

Carrie - 12 minutes? is it better than nothing? IDK . . .it'd make me cranky.

AFU: nothing planned to day - tons for the weekend, corn maze, state fair, anniversary date night . . . and seeing MIL. That last has me worried. ugh.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ That kind of nap stinks. I would be cranky and groggy after waking up from that. You have an alarm to get up in the mornings? Why? Or was that just a part of the weird dream or whatever?

Annie ~ Poor Ava.







What about one of your older kids? Could one of them take care of her at your house for those 2 hours? It may not really matter much who she's with if it's not someone she already knows and loves. Some babies do not like being left with someone else or not being at home. It could be a stages/phases things, too. I think there's an stage when toddlers have separation anxiety even if they were fine with it before.

Kat ~ Maybe it will be good to your MIL. If anything is going to come out, it's good to get it out and over with, I think, rather than letting it sit and simmer.

Dylan got his diaper off this morning. I don't know how he did it. I was making my coffee, turned around and there he was naked with his diaper on the floor.









Oh, and I spilled coffee grounds all inside the water reservoir of my coffee maker. I don't know how to get it out. Blech!

Supposed to go to homeschool park day today but I'm not feeling it. I really should because we haven't been in a couple of weeks and I know the boys would like it. It seems kind of silly now, though, considering we have another homeschool family in our group right across the street, especially when they are the only other family that seems to be going.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Whew! MDC is back up! I was going through withdrawals!









It would be so great if DSD 14 could watch her because her high school is within walking distance of our house. But HS doesn't get out until 4 PM and I need to leave my house at 3:15 PM at the latest. You're probably right, I don't think it has anything to do with the specific babysitter, she's just not used to staying with someone that she hasn't known her whole life. I think she views her regular babysitter's house as one of her houses. She just goes in and starts playing with stuff. Sometimes, she may whine or fuss when it's time for me to leave but the babysitter can calm her down no problem. We're going over on Sat morning to see her and meet the new baby.

Had Ava's WBV this morning. She's 18 lbs and 28 inches. So she's fallen off the growth chart for height now. Her pedi asked me about shots and I said I didn't want to do any right now, partly because she's been sick and I don't want to stress her immune system. I guess I'll need to flat out ask him at her 18 month WBV if he will need to "fire" us if I delay the rest of her shots indefinitely. He was a little concerned about her lack of walking but he said her tone was good and she's not technically delayed until she hits 16 months and she's not walking. He asked me where things stood with the testing for Noonan's and I told him that insurance was still denying the claim. So I asked him if at some point, since she's now fallen off the growth chart and she has other physical traits associated w/Noonan's, do we just label her as having Noonan's? He said he wasn't sure. He asked me if she followed simple instructions and I said yes and told him what she did this morning. She was naked and she sat down and started looking at her vagina like she needed to pee. I told her that if she needed to do peeps, she should sit on the potty. So she stood up, cruised over to her IKEA potty seat, sat down and peed. So she can follow instructions!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Annie, haha me too! MDC withdrawl!

I'd keep fighting insurance, bc what if Noonan's is NOT it?

Oh, and re: MIL she's acting as if she didn't say or do anything out of the ordinary, which is really how I thought she'd play it. I still think we need to talk, but it will wait until Sunday when we pick Gabe up.

Need to work! Ack!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ What Kat said. Can you get your insurance to cover some other kind of testing? Maybe something more general that would help either rule in or rule out Noonan's.

Kat ~ I can kind of see how your MIL would think she should be able to talk to her son about some things and keep them private. But once the cat is out of the bag, you can't put it back.

My cycle is getting frustrating. I thought I may have Oed 11 days ago based on ewcf and subsequent dry up but I've now had to more patches of ewcf. oh well.


My Ovulation Chart


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I haven't spoken with her - I rarely do, except in person - she and DH spoke about her watching Gabe this weekend yesterday. And he said she acted as if nothing was said out of the ordinary. And if she had spoken to him in prI ate about the pregnancy. And her concerns, it would be one thing, but she raged at Norah's party, quite publicly, so that's a different thing.

I am no help with charting









Going to a corn maze tonight!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Hi guys!! Oooh mdc looks different. This will take getting used to!

Lauri - boo to the dropoff in weight. :-( I'm sorry. I'm not sure what I'd do. I think I'd pay out of pocket for the testing if I couldn't get insurance to cover it. Is it very expensive?

MW - do you have any sposies left? Maybe try triple paste and sposies for a few days to clear up that rash. It's the only thing that works for Finnley when he has a bad teething rash (like right now). He gets red, bumpy, and shiny rash all over his bum and around his scrotum, and when I wipe it sometimes he bleeds a little. Oh it's so awful. None of the natrual stuff even remotely helps. I just slather his bum with triple paste and keep him comfy that way.

Kat - ugh good luck with the MIL. Is Gabe spending the whole weekend? Maybe just let it all go. Who really needs to drag anything out longer than necessary. She ought to apologize, but is it going to happen? Is it worth it if it isn't genuine? Ugh. It's too bad. What a piece of work she is.

Have fun at the corn maze!

I'm busy busy! Party is tmw. Weather looks good! It's POURING today tho, so all the yard work (raking up and setting up the bounce house) will have to wait till tomorrow am. Nora is going to flip! Hopefully DH doens't have any trouble picking it up. It should fit in the car, the guy said.

Taking a break from cleaning to eat lunch (big huge spinach salad) and watch some Dr Who. Finn just went down for a nap. Hopefully he gives me another good one so I can get some laundry done and maybe start baking!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh, I misunderstood, Kat. I thought she talked to your dh in private about it. If she had raged in public, in front of me, especially at my child's birthday part, I would have told her to leave. I would most definitely give her a piece of my mind.

I don't have any sposies. I looked at them when I went grocery shopping. I tried really hard to buy some but I just couldn't.







I decided I'd wait the week out and then try again if needed. His rash is clearing up now, though. It looks so much better than just 2 days ago. I think this might be more teething rash. When he was screaming yesterday I noticed the white spots of his lower cuspids just under his gums, gave him some Hyland's teething tablets and he was immediately as happy as could be (if only for a few minutes).

Is my chart link not working? I checked it via post preview before posting and it was there. Now it's not and when I clicked on the link it just runs and runs.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Norah's rash is present regardless of sposies or cloth, it does fade a bit with a thick slather of diaper cream (again, doesn't matter if CD safe or not . . .) Maybe it's just teething? but it seems pee related as opposed to poop.

I, unfortunately, didn't hear the comments. She did leave shortly after making them - also a good thing. I wouldn't force her to apologize. We'll see how her attitude continues, I mean, the pregancy isn't going anywhere, and the baby will be here before we know it, so it's not like a topic that can be swept under the rug indefinitely. But I do think her comments have done serious damage to her and DH's relationship. no helping that.

I can't wait to see pics of Nora's party!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

It works! I think FF was down earlier. I couldn't get to mine to update it.

Glad his rash seems to be going away! That's good news. If it's teething then I feel you - like I said Finn's bum is in rough shape right now from those molars!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Dylan also got a ring around his butt yesterday. I think it was from having spaghetti with tomato sauce. That was the first time he had that. I'm pretty sure he reacted to me eating cooked tomatoes when he was an infant.

Kat ~ There isn't anything you can (or need to) do about her damaging her relationship with her son. That's her problem. Sad but maybe that will eventually help her realize that she needs to chill.

Is there a way to block certain people from seeing your posts on Facebook without actually unfriending them? There are some people who I would rather not converse with on there because we seem to disagree on everything.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Is there a way to block certain people from seeing your posts on Facebook without actually unfriending them? There are some people who I would rather not converse with on there because we seem to disagree on everything.


I know with photos you can exclude certain people from seeing them. I bet you could somehow do it with posts. I think you make it "custom" instead of "friends" and you can click that person to exclude from the post. Let me try it.

Yes! You can. When you update your status, where it says Friends, click it and highlight Custom. You'll be able to hide it from a specific person!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I know with photos you can exclude certain people from seeing them. I bet you could somehow do it with posts. I think you make it "custom" instead of "friends" and you can click that person to exclude from the post. Let me try it.
> 
> Yes! You can. When you update your status, where it says Friends, click it and highlight Custom. You'll be able to hide it from a specific person!


Yes, I knew there was a way to set it to customs so only certain people would see but that is a lot more work. I was hoping for a way of blocking just one or two people. I found it. If you hover over their name and then click on Friend, you can change the group they are associated with. Set to restricted, they can't see anything you post unless you tag them or make it public.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Yes, I knew there was a way to set it to customs so only certain people would see but that is a lot more work. I was hoping for a way of blocking just one or two people. I found it. If you hover over their name and then click on Friend, you can change the group they are associated with. Set to restricted, they can't see anything you post unless you tag them or make it public.


Aha! GTK! I suppose if it's just a thing or two it's ok to do it custom. Your way sounds way better. Like blocking yourself from their feed!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Baby_Cakes and akind1, I hope your weekends go well. Can't wait to hear about them! WRT testing for Ava, they have already covered a chromosomal microarray that was done to check the number of chromosomes. It also looked for deletions or transpositions as one common genetic condition that goes along with her heart defect is diGeorge Syndrome which is a deletion on the 22 chromosome. She has the correct number of chromosomes and no deletions or transpositions. The testing that would need to be done is around $3K. Basically, seven of her genes have to be mapped. The tricky thing is some people have Noonan's and no genetic markers. So the test isn't a given for diagnosis.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yes, I blocked someone from my newsfeed because I was getting annoyed with everything she was posting.







I should just unfriend her but I think that would be too obvious right after we got into an argument on FB. Maybe I should so she knows exactly why. I've only met her once personally so it's not like we are friends or I need to keep her as a contact for anything.

The other person, I'm just tired of her contrary comments to my posts, even when they are meant as jokes. I think it's a matter of us having very different ways of seeing the I want to unfriend her, too, but we have some mutual friends and I'm afraid it would be awkward. IDK. I probably will eventually.

Such strange dilemmas with Facebook.









Annie ~ I'll go back to what I said a while ago, then. What is the need for the testing? You probably know my position by now. I don't think that labels and diagnoses are necessary unless it's something life-threatening and that's the only way to get medical treatment for it. I would think you'd be able to get any therapy for her that she might need without the diagnosis. For example, if it's decided she's not walking because she's physically delayed (maybe because of her heart defect and subsequent surgeries), insurance should cover that. I can't imagine that sort of thing would be denied.

I guess you might need a diagnosis of some sort if she needed an IEP and accommodations in school. That girl is as smart as a whip, though. I can't imagine her having any academic difficulties. From my experience with public schools and IEPs and accommodations, they are all pretty much useless, anyway. You can get all the IEPs and accommodations you want but none of it really benefits the child in any significant way. Ok, off my soapbox about that one.









I have, have, have to go to the Exchange today to get Ethan's cammies for Halloween! I have put it off so many times.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I appreciate your input MW and as usual, you're spot on. Having the diagnosis would only be helpful for early intervention services as mental and cognative delays go along with NS. I'm not even sure about traditional schooling at this point so we should probably just leave well enough alone as the only major medical issue would be increased risk of hemmorage and I would expect that if didn't happen in her previous surgeries, she probably doesn't have that problem.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Well, she certainly doesn't seem to have any mental or cognitive delays. If anything, she seems way ahead to me. However, it seems to me that if she needed an EI for that, you could get it for her regardless of any diagnosis. I could get speech therapy for Kellen without having to have any other diagnosis except for the speech problems.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

You're right, if we did pursue early intervention, it's not like she would be denied. Her geneticist stated that it would be easier to get services if we have the diagnosis. I guess it would also be helpful to know if this was an inherited condition to watch out for subsequent children but even that I don't think is reason enough. I/we would not terminate a pregnancy because of that and any subsequent pregnancies that I have will already be under greater scrutiny because of Ava's CHD so it really doesn't matter.

Baby_Cakes, I love the pics from your DD's party! It looks like she had so much fun!

akind1, I can't believe you went to the fair last year w/a 1 week old! You must have been feeling so good! Guess that's one of the big differences between a c-section and a vaginal birth, huh?

AFM, Ava has suddenly decided she likes walking, holding my hands of course. I took her to the playground yesterday and she wanted to walk everywhere. My back and neck were killing me by the end from leaning over! We went and saw her babysitter and the new baby yesterday as well. Ava must really miss her because she kept going over and giving her hugs. She did surprisingly well with me holding the new baby. She tolerated it for about five minutes before she started trying to get in my lap too and I had to give her back to her mama.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Actually, I was really uncomfortable but I really wanted to go. Recovery from a vaginal delivery with a 4th degree tear was worse than the c section. We just walked really slow and stopped to rest alot.

So, subsequent children??? When will you TTC again?

JJ: how are you?

Carrie: glad Nora's party went well!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *akind1* 


> So, subsequent children??? When will you TTC again?


I don't envision us ever TTC but we will never do anything permanent to prevent subsequent children so it's always a possibility, however remote.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I don't envision us ever TTC but we will never do anything permanent to prevent subsequent children so it's always a possibility, however remote.


Same here and I'm realizing I may not handle it very well. I'm addicted to hpts. I've been thinking about taking one for the past two days and I don't even think I've Oed yet.









Charting without temping isn't working out well so far, but my cycles haven't returned to normal yet. I need to have some patience. I haven't even had one regular cycle. It's hard not knowing when to expect







. I got scared while I was out yesterday thinking I had started because I kept feeling something wet. It was just more CF.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW, I'd probably take a test just cuz. I almost bought some when I went to the DT the other day but held off. If I have them in the house, I'll pee on them.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oooh tests!! I'm a poas-aholic! I hear you, just take one.

I too know I'll never ttc again. If it happens, sigh, it'll be ok but I'm not planning anymore!

My best girlfriend had baby H a week ago and omg he's so cute!! I'm getting my newborn snuggles ...and then handing him back to go play with my big kids and I'm so happy with this. Never before have I not had baby lust. Idk!! It's very freeing and I have nothing but pure happiness (no envy) for a baby.

Nora's party was AMAZING!! I'm so partied out!! My house needs a major clean up. That's what tmw is for! She really had fun and we enjoyed the bounce castle! Totally worth it!!

AfM, I realized today that Nora is subtracting, doing math, more than I thought.the coloring book she had had an activity to count the number it showed, and circle that amount of objects. she was able to count to 11, then say "that means I cross out one, to make 10. " I was floored!! She did it a few times with different amounts.

Finn has a cold. Both kids have sniffles!! So much snot!!

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I don't envision us ever TTC but we will never do anything permanent to prevent subsequent children so it's always a possibility, however remote.


Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that next baby will be an oops. lol. There WILL be another, but it won't be planned I don't think. More of a... when it happens, it happens.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> JJ: how are you?


Still here! Doing mostly reading from my phone and it's too hard to type a good reply from there, so I wait until I'm on the computer, but then by the time I do-- there's SO much to catch up on that I give up!

Laundry room is so close to done!

Tenley is sick. mid 102's, and sleeping on and off all day.

I have a doula interview on wed and I am SO not ready. trying to prep stuff tonight (the contract, printouts etc) but it's hard with ten on my arm and lap


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onetwoten*
> 
> Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that next baby will be an oops. lol. There WILL be another, but it won't be planned I don't think. More of a... when it happens, it happens.
> 
> ...


I felt so much like that after Nora, JJ. I really did. It's going to get better! Have faith!

yayyy for an almost done reno!!

Poor Ten. Any other symptoms??

EEEK!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> MW, I'd probably take a test just cuz. I almost bought some when I went to the DT the other day but held off. If I have them in the house, I'll pee on them.


I know, right? The $T kills me. What reason is there to not poas when they are so cheap?









Carrie ~ That's exactly how I feel. I have absolutely no baby lust whatsoever. It feels really good.

JJ ~ I know how that goes. When I don't get email notifications I sometimes get so behind that I'm lost.

Poor Ten so sick.







I hope she's better soon.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Ha. I had no baby lust what so ever when I got pregnant with this one. I told DH before I was (or knew I was) pregnant, that I was content to sit this round of babies out (A LOT of our friends are pregnant right now). Evidently my uterus was not so content sitting this round out!

That said, I loved that I didn't have to TTC this one - no stress at all about getting pregnant, just being pregnant! MIL has not said one word about this new baby since we told her. I think she's in denial. And I am enjoying the peace. I mean, sooner or later she wont' be able to ignore it, but for now . . . meh.

JJ: glad you are ok, and hope Tenley soon is her normal healthy self! and hooray for a nearly finished reno.

I am a POAS chicken. maybe because I hate line tests and wait for a digi. DH is working on making his appointment for a vasectomy. so, definitely no more babies for us. I am just bummed about having to deal with AF indefinitely, LOL, if there is no point to cycles when I'm not trying to get pregnant or avoid getting pregnant. Yall can POAS whenever just to amuse the rest of us, right?

I am so ready for this year to be over and have a break - we are busy non stop until Christmas. This week we have boo at the zoo, 2 birthday parties. Next week is Halloween, the first weekend in November we have a wedding shower to go to, then we are taking Gabe to a Panther/Bronco football game, and we want to do Ren Fest while we are there I think, then it's Gabe's birthday and chrismtas pictures, then Thanksgiving . . . . and gearing up for Christmas. I get tired just thinking about it. I have not even begun to Christmas shop, and don't know what we are getting the kids. sigh.

My mind is now officially blank.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I am a POAS chicken. maybe because I hate line tests and wait for a digi. DH is working on making his appointment for a vasectomy. so, definitely no more babies for us. I am just bummed about having to deal with AF indefinitely, LOL, if there is no point to cycles when I'm not trying to get pregnant or avoid getting pregnant. Yall can POAS whenever just to amuse the rest of us, right?
> 
> I am so ready for this year to be over and have a break - we are busy non stop until Christmas. This week we have boo at the zoo, 2 birthday parties. Next week is Halloween, the first weekend in November we have a wedding shower to go to, then we are taking Gabe to a Panther/Bronco football game, and we want to do Ren Fest while we are there I think, then it's Gabe's birthday and chrismtas pictures, then Thanksgiving . . . . and gearing up for Christmas. I get tired just thinking about it. I have not even begun to Christmas shop, and don't know what we are getting the kids. sigh.


Ok, not for nothing, but my period is a complete NON ISSUE since getting a Diva cup. This thing has completely changed how I feel about my period. I forget I'm on it (except for cramps the first day, which I just take advil for). You put it in in the morning, maybe on the first day (heavy days) rinse in 3-4 times a day, but after that you only need to rinse it every 12 hours. It doesn't leak!!! You can wear it overnight, out of the house, etc. Rinse it and done. No worrying about packing pads/tampons, no ruined undies, no mess, no nothing. I was a tampon user, and always needed a back up pantyliner for leaks. Plus I HATED how they dried me out, how uncomfortable I felt b/c they would dry me out. NONE of that anymore. It's like a fog has been lifted! I wish I'd started using it YEARS ago. So. GET ONE!! Oh - big plus too is if you know when AF is going to start, you can pop that sucker in the day before and forget about it, and no waking up to a mess!

And they pop up on shesteals all the time for like 1/2 off!

Wow - you are BUSY! And is Christmas really that close?? GEEZ!

I love thanksgiving.

And I feel like this Christmas is going to be super fun.

Baby was on the boob all night!! Ugh, tired! Off to refill my coffee mug!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I started using soft cups the cycle before I got pregnant - I don't mind them, and I kind of like that they are disposable. Though the diva is tempting. You can (though I hadn't tried) have sex with a soft cup in. My AF tends to last a whole week, and that just sucks. I will be happy if it became regular at some point.I haven't had regular periods since before I was on birth control (depo provera) - nothing has been the same since 

Oh, I love the busyness and the holidays - its a ton of fun! - but after all of this, I am going to be exhausted and ready for a break!

Hooray for more coffee!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

IMO the Instead cups and the Diva couldn't be more different. I know it depends on the woman, but I don't feel it at all, and it just feels so secure. I like that it isn't disposable. I like that I can leave the house w/o that thought "Do I have an extra pad/tampon?" or getting caught with a leak somewhere. Plus I really love that there are no wrappers, nothing to hide in the trash can anywhere, no secret business at all. It's just what it is! Mine also usually lasts a full 7 days. Idk! I just feel like I don't even have to deal with it anymore! It's fantastic!

Nora got such great gifts this year. I'm so glad she's past the age of annoying blinking flashing noisy toys. LOL. It was nice this time to get clothes, some jewelry, a beautiful new doll, art supplies.

OH! I meant to mention, she's been interested in starting piano lessons. We just don't have the funds right now (thru her school it's $75 the first month then $55/per month, on TOP of her tuition). So we were going to ask the grandparents if for her bday/christmas they could contribute to her lessons. Well. They gave her a HUGE check for her bday that will more than cover lessons for the year, so we are going to put that in the bank and go ahead and sign her up. In the thank you card I'm going to mention the lessons so they get some credit and can really appreciate her learning this! I hope she likes it! Of course we can stop at any time, but she seems really interested in starting so, why not now??


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Wow, Carrie, that's a great gift! My parents love to contribute to things like that for the grandkids. I think they like doing that more than giving toys.

I wish I could say the same about the Diva Cup. I could not get that thing to not leak. I'm afraid to ever try it again. When we lived in Hawaii I wore it out shopping once. In the middle of a store, dh whispered to me that I had red all over my legs. It was a mess. I could have died!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I have only tried the soft cup so far, bc it was the least $$ to try out. I have friends that like Diva, and others that like the Lunette even better. need to watch out for steals/bargains.

Great gift! I hope Nora LOVES the piano lessons!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Wow, Carrie, that's a great gift! My parents love to contribute to things like that for the grandkids. I think they like doing that more than giving toys.
> I wish I could say the same about the Diva Cup. I could not get that thing to not leak. I'm afraid to ever try it again. When we lived in Hawaii I wore it out shopping once. In the middle of a store, dh whispered to me that I had red all over my legs. It was a mess. I could have died!


OMG how mortifying!

It took me a good 2-3 tries to really get it in right. But that was by the 2nd day. Idk why it would totally leak that badly! Yikes!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I have only tried the soft cup so far, bc it was the least $$ to try out. I have friends that like Diva, and others that like the Lunette even better. need to watch out for steals/bargains.
> 
> Great gift! I hope Nora LOVES the piano lessons!


Def watch for bargains!

AFM - it's chilly out! love it! going to take my two sniffle heads on a walk. Nora asked me to suck her boogers out with the nose frida. OMG that girl was full of junk! Finn hates that thing but I def get my $$ worth using it for Nora. I still use it for him but since he fights it so much, he cries and it makes more drippies.

If I can get us thru walgreens I need to pick up more cold calm!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

There is another whatever baby! Lyterae is expecting! I think, if I have the facebook person and the MDC person right in my head!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> There is another whatever baby! Lyterae is expecting! I think, if I have the facebook person and the MDC person right in my head!


Wow! That's so cool!

Baby_Cakes, the piano lessons sound awesome! Especially since she's asking to do them. I like gifts like that too. We have so much crap in our house as it is, we don't need more things!

I've been wanting to try something like the Diva or Luna cup. Maybe after this next cycle.

I love POASing. The excitement of waiting to see what pops up! Usually I'm already pretty certain of the result but the anticipation is still fun!

AFM, Ava has turned in to velcro baby the past few days. She wants nothing to do with DH, she keeps coming and getting in my lap and snuggling. She'll come over and randomly give me a hug. It's crazy! She's also doing really good at telling me when she needs to go potty, even if she has a diaper on. Remember that sign I told you guys about that I said she had made up and I was trying to figure out what it was? It's her version of "bathroom". So whenever she does it, I take her potty. We were over at a friend's house Friday night and they were trying to get their little boy to go potty so they kept saying it and then Ava would sign it. At first I wouldn't take her but then DH said I should and she did go peeps. But then she kept signing it and she wouldn't do anything after that.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Ava is one smart cookie. That is for sure! I think if POAS more, it would take out the emotional overload that comes with POAS less often - but since I don't, the anticipation of waiting for the result is killer. I am rarely sure of the result. when I POAS with Gabe and Norah, I was probably 85% sure of the result. but that's because I waited unitl at least 12 DPO and had some symptoms. With this baby, I was completely floored by the result. I couldn't stop shaking for a good while after. I was totally convinced that a "surprise" baby couldn't happen to me. yeah, well.

Love the snuggles! enjoy them.

The kids are sleeping so well now! long may it continue! Norah might stir a couple times in the night for a pacifier, but that's it. Gabe generally sleeps through unless he wakes between 5-6 but usually will go back to sleep.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> The kids are sleeping so well now! long may it continue! Norah might stir a couple times in the night for a pacifier, but that's it. Gabe generally sleeps through unless he wakes between 5-6 but usually will go back to sleep.


Yay for awesome sleep! Ava has been eating every couple of hours again...







which means I have to get up and pump in the middle of the night. Ugh. Oh well, I know she can go longer w/out milk so I just have to wait for her to get back to that again.

akind1 how many more days until your gender scan?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

15? It's November 8th.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I'm so excited! What are the names again that you guys are considering? Have you ever felt that you picked the wrong name after you actually saw the baby? I feel that way sometimes about Ava. That if I had waited until I saw her, I probably wouldn't have chosen Ava. Makes me wonder about what to do if we have another one.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I totally think Ava looks like an Ava! You could always change her name. I know someone who did that with her daughter. Her name just didn't feel right, and her daughter got older and agreed, I think around age 4 or 5 and they changed it. Like that!
I was certain about Nora's name. Finn, Idk. I love his name but I still think he could be a Nicholas/Nick. He's soooo not a Logan!! I think having a short list helped, bc the choices were narrowed down and once we saw him, it was obvious what his name was.

Kat, that's not far off ! Omg your pg is flying!!!

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I could totally see Finn as a Nick! I don't think I'd ever go so far as to change Ava's name, I just don't know that I would have chosen that name after I saw her. But I also can't separate my emotions surrounding her birth and feeling like the Ava that I was pregnant with died. So that is probably factoring in to it as well. I just think sometimes that if I have another, we will probably narrow the name choices down but maybe not select the full name and announce it before the child is born. Who knows, though, I may fall in love with a name like I did with Ava's and there's just really no other choice.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Names: boy: Theodore Lewis girl: Caroline Lily

We so easily settle on names, it's almost as if they choose us - we've never felt we chose the wrong name. That said, even with our names set, we don't tell hospital staff. We far prefer to file the paperwork ourselves (which drives them crazy).

Carrie: Finn could have definitely been a Nick! I love Nick and Nora, but that might be cheesey.

For myself . . . I love that Katrina has variations, so I could play with it and see what fit me as I got older. I wouldn't choose a different name for myself now - but I tried on a bit when I was younger. DH is Wayne (Jr) and would have been Brandon had his mom had her way. I could see him as either.

Ava . . . Do pronounce it Eh-vah with a long a at the front or Ah-vah with a short a? (I hear it in my head as Eh-vah) And you know, if she feels it doesn't suit her as she gets older, she can change it. I have a friend IRL that's considering that. (She's an Elizabeth, the queen of nick-namable names)

Yes, this pregnancy is going fast! double checked - yup, ultrasound is 2 weeks from tomorrow!

Part of it just how busy this time of year is. We are doing Boo at the Zoo tonight, which I am excited for, but DH is irritating me. We chose to do a Wednesday (you have to buy tickets in advance to get a discount) because he usually isn't working and can be there with us. I am in the office on Weds, but usually am home in plenty of time to get kids ready, etc. He is taking a 5 o'clock appointment, which means, though I want to and plan to be at the gate when it opens (6), he will not be there until AT LEAST 6:15. Kids and momma are not patient people. We are meeting up with friends, and this is just highly inconvienent all around. anyway. I am sure it will work out fine. just bugs me.

And he's been working alot on days I'm home which means I am working and with the kids, and not being the parent I want to be. (not patient or kind .. . . ) Gabe goes through spurts when he is so sweet with Norah, then he will turn the tables and be aggressive. IDK why, and it's not always in play. (BTW, it's obvious I named her correctly, with emphasis on the NOrah. I don't like saying No alot, but I sure do to her. Michevious little monkey)

I need more coffee.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

We pronounce it Eh-vah with a long A. Her babysitter pronounces it Ah-vah because she says it in spanish. Ava calls herself both! Ugh, the zoo thing would drive me bonkers. My DH does stuff like that. I've just started saying that the kids and I or Ava and I are doing X, Y and Z and whatever time and he's welcome to join us when he's available. I got tired of making the kids wait for him. He typically doesn't have good time management.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Names: boy: Theodore Lewis girl: Caroline Lily
> 
> ...


LOVE the name choices!

re - nick and nora - one of the biggest cons and reasons we didn't love Nick/Nikolas.

re - NOra(h) YES! I say the SAME THING!! Our spunky girls keep us on our toes!!!

I also need more coffee.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I think I will leave his ticket with him. He can join us inside. (because the liklihood of him being there AT 6:15 is slim) - I mean, he's a massage therapist, the appointment is for 60 minutes, plus he has to wait for the client to be ready to leave, and sometimes the client is chatty, and has to take off and replace sheets, etc. I mean - I GET why he'd be late. I also know that if it's a regular customer he hates to say no, and honestly we could use the money. It's just sucky, because we had this planned.

Love that Ava pronounces it both ways! What's her middle name (does she have one?) If this baby is a girl, but I doubt it is, I think I'll call her Lily. Because the way I'd shorten it (Carrie) we already know several of.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Her middle name is Pauline. We like to do family names for middle names. I like Caroline. That was a name we looked at for Ava. DH's grandmother from Italy was Carolina.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Ava is more Ava than Pauline, I think.

The only thing about Norah, is that I can't find her name hardly ever on those pre-printed personalized things. Not even spelled without the H. its frustrating! I can always find Gabriel though. That's something.

I had my coffee and am trying to drink more water. This baby is so active. If this keeps up, I should have no problem losing baby weight, just trying to keep up with 3 such active kids. Maybe when they are a bit older, at least one will take after me and enjoy sitting still with a book. (or eReader).


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> The only thing about Norah, is that I can't find her name hardly ever on those pre-printed personalized things. Not even spelled without the H. its frustrating! I can always find Gabriel though. That's something.


See that's something I love about an uncommon name. It ISN'T printed up on everything so it makes it a little more, idk, exclusive! My kids names aren't on anything. If we do it, we order it! LOL!

I had THE most vivid dream last night that I was pregnant. It was surreal. I was poking my belly and the baby was kicking back - my mind must have memories stored in it that I can't connect with during waking hours, b/c I for the life of me cannot remember what it actually feels like. But in my dream it was so real!! I was so upset about being pg in the dream. Not looking fwd to labor, or another child, just accepting it. I was worried about the birth. Ugh, I guess it was more of a nightmare!









Got to see my friends newborn again today. So cute! She is really doing great. Struggling a bit adjusting to a new baby and a new 2 year old, but I think she is in a good place. I know hanging out and helping and breaking up the day helps so we are going to get together again tmw.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Newborn squishiness! See, I see newborns now and freak out. I mean, they are adorable, but I have major concerns about how exactly this 3 with this age gap is going to work. I mean, I know we will figure it out and manage just fine, but the PROCESS. I am not ready. And there isn't a good way to really prepare either. I just hope this baby is like my other two and takes decent breaks between feedings. I really worry about how DH will handle 3 on his own the day I am in the office. Or if we need to find a way to farm a kid out on that day.

I am not much looking forward to labor either. I hope it's not at 41+6 like my other two, and maybe shorter than Norah's. 10 hours wasn't bad. But wouldn't mind a faster labor either. I just need to not tear so badly!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

You had a 4th degree, right? Have you gone over things in your mind that could have gone differently? Were you pushing forcibly or being told when to push?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Forcibly, yes, told when to, but the doula and I told the nurse to shut up. I think the midwife may have had her fingers up there too. Need to ask the doula.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh ouch! I crossed my legs just thinking about that. Yes, I could def see why you NEED to avoid that next time!!

What sort of birth are you planning this time? Same? (Hospital? Birth Center? Home?)

10 hours of active labor?

Now I want deets!

I will start sending my good labor/fast labor juju. Finn's labor was 3 hours of active and maybe 10 min of pushing. It was so freaking incredible and easy. I wish all babies were born as easily and w/o complication. I realize this is not possible but it was really the picture perfectest labor and I have such fond memories. I'm torn b/w wanting to do it again, and never wanting another b/c his birth was so perfect, I don't want to risk it going horribly!

PS I'm SO GLAD you're out on FB. I love seeing your updates!!

MW - how are you? Not getting updates again? You should know by now to just CHECK THE THREAD silly!!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Oh ouch! I crossed my legs just thinking about that. Yes, I could def see why you NEED to avoid that next time!!
> 
> ...


Ugh. Crossed my legs too. When I think about my birth/postpartum period, I'm far enough away from it now, that I can look objectively and realize how insanely different it would have been, had I not torn, and had such bad SPD pain afterwards. My actual vagina felt fine, and once I remembered the witch hazel and the swelling went down, I felt ok down there. But learning to move with stitches I was terrified to rip out, and still having the SPD pain, was atrocious. Taking away even one of those... it blows my mind how much easier it could have been.

I'll put my good thoughts in as well. I totally see this being your easy peasy labor. It was super easy to get pregnant, the pregnancy feels like it's kind of flown by, and it's a third baby... I think you could totally do a 6 hour or so labor.

Mine was 12/5 hours from very first contraction to end, with 2.5 hours of pushing. Ugh. I can think of so much in hindsight I could have done to make it easier. I think a shorter pushing stage would have made a world of difference too. I should have hopped off the bed and squatted for too longer, but I was exhausted and lazy, so I didn't. I should have made Rob hold me up, but it didn't even occur to me.

Carrie-- I've thought about the idea of being a surrogate after we have a second. I just find so much magic in pregnancy and birth that I honestly can't imagine being done that either. If I'm honest with myself, I could sooner be done "having kids" and not have a second, than I could accept not being pregnant and giving birth again. I -need- to give birth again.

RE: Names. I still have moments where I'm sad about Tenley's name. I kind of wish I'd fought and gone with Harper. It's ok though, because it's her middle name, so if we decide/she decides, we wouldn't have to change it, it's already there. Everyone says she fits Tenley so well, and I see it, I guess I just still am not in love with the name. DH is though. And when I talk to her, I always call her Tenley Harper, rarely just Tenley so I suppose there's not a big difference. And I already said if the next is a girl, she'll be Adelyn Grace. Baby Addie.

Had a doula interview/meeting tonight. My first one in YEARS. I was so nervous, and felt like I kept repeating gibberish, but I think it went alright actually. I connected really well with the mama, the father was understandably a little bit quieter and awkward. They're still very worried about the cost though, so I'm not sure if they'll end up hiring me.

It is --sooo-- hard to talk as a doula now, without putting my own experience out there. And so many people say not to do that, but it's hard, when I remember things about my own birth that the doula did, or didn't do, or I felt, etc etc, and wanting to share that knowledge with another soon to be mama. I need to step back a bit and keep that to myself. Or at least tell it as if it's just a story from a birth I was at, not my own.

Kat-- that type of thing with the Zoo, drives me NUTS. DH does the same thing. I'll plan out something, give him an insane amount of details, and then he'll say ok, but he has to... I dunno, drop by his parents to pick up the lawnmower first. (This happened last week). I was like ok, no problem. They live two blocks from us- so I tacked on like 5-10 minutes into our timeline. Well what he MEANT was that he wanted to pick up the lawnmower, mow our lawn, then load it back up and take it back. I was like WHAT? You knew we had something planned!!

On the topic of births and newborns and dealing with toddlerness.... I'm just feeling in the past few weeks that I could do it if we had another now. That's not to say I want another now, or would try for one right now- but if presented with the choice have one now, or not at all, I'd have one now. Even a month ago, that thought still would have terrified me. Also my segueway into, we dtd last night and didn't pull out or use protection or anything. He didn't bother asking until afterwards, and I hate freaking condoms so much, I didn't speak up. Meh. I'm pretty sure I ovulated already anywhere from 3-7 days ago. And my LP have been short anyways (from what I can tell, since I'm not realllly charting, just paying attention to CF and a little bit of o type pain.)


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Gotta be honest, the talk of long labor, long pushing and even tearing makes me jealous for a vaginal birth. Part of my desire to have another child is to be able to have the chance to experience that.

JJ, too exciting! Even if there's not really a chance, it's still exciting! Especially for you guys to be in a different place, you know? I totally remember when that switch occurred. Suddenly your super high needs baby isn't so demanding so the thought of adding another one is not as terrifying.

AFM, supply has dipped and even though it dips every 3 weeks or so, I still freak out every time. Ugh. I don't know how I'm ever going to wean from this pump. It seriously starts making me panic to not see as much milk come out! And that doesn't help my supply either.







I just have to remind myself that it always comes back once AF is gone.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Gotta be honest, the talk of long labor, long pushing and even tearing makes me jealous for a vaginal birth. Part of my desire to have another child is to be able to have the chance to experience that.
> 
> ...


I think I get that. Not the same degree, but that's a lot of it for me. I enjoyed being pregnant and laboring, but I also have this feeling like I didn't do it how I wanted, and I want a chance to do that.

*hugs* I can't imagine how stressful that must be, seeing every ounce and such a measured gauge on how much milk you have. And just because I don't think we say it enough, you are a freaking rockstar mama, for pumping that long. I thought my SIL was amazing for pumping exclusively for 3 months. You're just... I don't know. You humble me. Seeing how much you go through, and live Trevor from my AP group, and parents like that-- it really reminds me to be grateful for how easy our breastmilk journey has been. Ava is so lucky to have your dedication and persistence.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *onetwoten*
> 
> *hugs* I can't imagine how stressful that must be, seeing every ounce and such a measured gauge on how much milk you have. And just because I don't think we say it enough, you are a freaking rockstar mama, for pumping that long. I thought my SIL was amazing for pumping exclusively for 3 months. You're just... I don't know. You humble me. Seeing how much you go through, and live Trevor from my AP group, and parents like that-- it really reminds me to be grateful for how easy our breastmilk journey has been. Ava is so lucky to have your dedication and persistence.


Thanks mama.







It's my normal so it usually doesn't seem like any extra work but when we were all together in Williamsburg, I realized how much of my time is taken pumping, giving Ava bottles or washing bottles and pump parts. And it's gotten easier! It used to take up even MORE of my time!

I think I need to go give MW a nudge over on FB...


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Not fair!! Lol I was doing something else on my phone when u poste on FB, and I totally read it as like a "hey u guys need to go see the new post







". And I got all excited. I was like maybe she IS pregnant!! Lol


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh believe me, if I get a BFP at some point over the weekend, I'll be issuing an APB on FB for you guys to high tail it over here!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ok, I've missed too much to answer everything. WTH? I thought that was fixed with the updates and changes here.

Ava is Ava! That's that.

On having a baby, pushing and tearing, I pushed on queue with Ethan because I had been drugged. I ended up with a grapefruit sized swollen perenium afterward. With Kellen and Dylan at home, I didn't really push. I just went with my body and didn't have any problems. I wasn't even ever checked for dilation and effacement. I did have some tears but I think that was more from the previous experience than those births, scar tissue. It wasn't really pushing with them. It was more grunting while my body did what it did.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

That's what I want to do next time, the grunting/breathing baby out. It's what I intended to do, but then I got sooo caught up in just being DONE that I pushed with all my might. Bad choice.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

This will be another hospital birth. While I would  to have a water birth - that's always been a dream of mine - I really, especially in the case of VBAC (my VBAC) really believe in having experienced attendants - and no midwife I trust in this state will touch an HBAC. too much risk for them - they'd lose their license. So. hospital birth it is. Norah's wasn't bad, and my birth plan was followed to the T. I really appreciated that, because with Gabe (the same hospital, 2 years prior) I felt that it wasn't. I doubt they glanced at it.

In a nutshell, I was using the breast pump to try to bring my light, irregular contractions (that I'd been having for weeks) into a pattern of strong, regular contractions, and my water broke while on the pump at 12:30 a.m. (this is what I count as the start of labor) - went to the hospital straight away - I was concerned bc the cord was right in front of baby's face, and didn't want a prolapse - When I got there, I was 3 cm and 80% effaced. By 5 a.m. I was 5 cm and 100% effaced and the contractions were getting far more intense. Somewhere around 7:30-8 a.m. It was very intense and I - and everyone else - thought I was still at a 5. I was asking for an epidural, bc if this level intensity was going to last for hours, I needed some help, so I think the nurse went to order a light epidural, that could be backed off when it came time to push. I just wanted to have the edge off, which she said was possible without being completely numb. Around 9, I was in the bed, on my side/all fours, and felt my body pushing - a couple waves of those and I told Amber - my doula - I think I'm pushing. She looked (being on all fours, and naked, it wasn't hard, and she was like - OH CRAP - SHE'S PUSHING! and ran to get the nurse and the midwife/OB. the OB was in surgery, so a midwife came in, had my flip over on my back;sitting up and I was pushing. The nurse (the extra one that came in, not the awesome one that was with me the rest of the time) kept feeling my belly for contractions. Me, the doula, and the good nurse kept hollering at her to stop. I know when I am in the middle of a freaking contraction. I have had no pain meds, which should be obvious by my screaming. It was totally purple pushing though - my face was full of peticchae after. I did feel really rushed. The pushing stage didn't feel like it was very long though - it was about an hour.

that's a big nutshell. BUT, I think, maybe, if I could have stayed in the position I started, that the pushing stage might have been easier. I think everyone just freaked out when it came on so sudden, because no one was ready - they had no clue I was in transition. Neither did I.

I don't get notifications, really. I get a daily email with subscriptions. Honestly, during working hours, I'm checking MDC quite frequently and so therefore dont' have need of it. I only get immediate ones when I'm the thread starter.

My DDC is so slow. I mean, not active. Kind of a bummer.

JJ: keep in mind that the new baby will not be here when Tenley is her age now - but 9 months from now - which is a totally different thing. So, if you've a mind to not prevent, then go for it. There is no telling if Tenley at almost 2 will be any easier than Tenley now. It's just a different level of difficulty.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Yeah I just check my threads! I don't even check my email.







Honestly I use my phone for everything except long posts here so I'm never too far away.  I check FB and MDC often as well.

Kat reading your birth story made me a little sad for that pushing stage! That's rough. I'm sorry! Yes - that could really be why you tore so horrifically. There's no rush. Keep that in mind for next time! Your doula, too! She should have been the one to stop the panic and have everyone take breath, give you a break, tell you you're doing fine/great, you're about to meet your baby -- not shouting and running, etc, you know? Sigh. It must be so fresh in your mind.

Bummer your DDC isn't that exciting. Do you still chat with Norah's? I'm still really active in Finn's and Nora's DDCs. Love having these women in my life.

JJ I agree with Kat. These babies change so much month to month that 9 months from now will be a different life! I personally really like my 3 year age gap, but I can totally see the benefits of a closer gap, as well.

With Finn I did the grunting/bearing down with my body sort of birthing. With Nora -- I was so freaking exhausted. I was on my back with my legs up (not how I wanted to push but i had NO ENERGY) and I was falling asleep in between pushing contractions. I was only pushing with the ctx, so I would feel one, wake up, push-push-push, and then fall back asleep. Took awhile. I was so tired. But man, once she was out I was WIDE AWAKE! LOL! I think looking back I'm lucky that I was able to do it with how tired I was. There was a little nervousness with my mw b/c the placenta was taking awhile. They did use traction on the cord and it separated from the placenta, and then my mw had to reach up and grab pieces -- ugh that was bad. Bad bad.

Anyway. Taking the kids to the park today! I'll be around!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I think everyone just freaked out. Hopefully this next time, I will recognize when I'm in transition and can focus on preparing to push. When the time came to push - no one was ready with Norah. I am hoping it's as easy and quick as getting pregnant was! LOL

No clue on Gabe's DDC - it fizzled. Norah's we have a secret FB group that I love. They are awesome, but I wasn't active really until after she was born. I love secret FB groups. A place I can vent that only those within the group can see. You can't even search for the group and find that it exists. It's crazy active.

Busy weekend ahead. Shoot, it's just busy period around here.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> I love secret FB groups. A place I can vent that only those within the group can see. You can't even search for the group and find that it exists. It's crazy active.


Yes this is where mine are now, as well! So much easier and way more fast-moving!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Big hugs akind1! Sounds like your body had gotten itself in to an ideal pushing position for Norah. But now that you are aware of the issues, you can ask your doula to help guard against that for this birth. I think MDC made a big mistake moving the DDCs to the groups section. You have to work to get to them. I'm somewhat active in Ava's secret FB DDC. Didn't find them until about six months ago.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh and SUPER busy night at work. VP candidate visiting. We have to go through security checkpoint to get to work plus park somewhere else and walk so I have to leave like 3 hrs early today to make sure I'm not late to work. Pretty neat to watch all the prep though.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Annie - that's exciting! (even though I am not excited about any of the main candidates or their veeps) hope you don't have to be away from home too much extra long.

I love FB. I am an addict. need to work on that.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Carrie you're pushing with Nora sounds like mine. I had never expected to push on my back, but when it came to it, it was just the most comfortable thing! And I totally thought I had like 10-12 minutes in between contractions because I felt like i was falling asleep too. Turns out it was only like 3 minutes (had spaced out, but not nearly as much as I thought or DH was freaking out about! lol)

And yes totally get you Kat, about them being the spacing apart in 9 months, not now. I know right now would be too close for us (though crazy to think that this is how far apart my cousin's daughters are, just a few weeks more apart.) But Tenley gets easier/different to deal with all the time, and her at 2 would be totally different. In my mind a year ago, I would have said I ideally wanted my babies about 18 months to two years apart. Now I think more like 3 would be better, but like I said... if my opportunity was now or never, I could do it now. And honestly, DH still isn't on board for another, so I've said that a second would have to be an oops. Therefore... I start taking chances I can get! lol

Obviously need to preface that with the idea that I'm not -hiding- anything from him. I would never be one of those women who lies and is like "oh no, we're safe, you don't need to grab a condom". More... he knows approx where I am in my cycles, and knows that he should ask if I'm fertile. I've told him in the past that I want babies, and so he cannot leave it to me to decide to use protection, because I won't. Sometimes he even knows I'm potentially fertile, and still won't use protection, even though he says he doesn't want another baby. That's on him, you know?

Anyways, just wanted to clarify that, as I was talking to someone else about that the other day, and you could tell she totally was reading it as being the same as me telling a boyfriend I was on birth control pills when I wasn't... so not the same thing!!

Annie-- That's exciting! That's one of the hings I miss about work, is all the excitement and prep and planning that happened when we had important exciting guests staying. We just had bieber staying with us again recently, and I happened to call in on that day, and it made me so jealous, just being able to hear through the phone even, how pumped the atmosphere was.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think any trauma that happened during pushing could very well have been because of the position, too. I was in that semi-seated position with Ethan. With Kellen and Dylan I was on my hands and knees. That's just how my body wanted to be. Pushing with Dylan took a lot longer than with Kellen. I think that was because the cord was wrapped around his neck so he and my body knew it had to go slow and easy.

JJ ~ That's exactly what I did with dh before we conceived Dylan. I wasn't lying to him but I also didn't proactively tell him when he needed to prevent. He knew I wanted another baby and was not using and bc. He said he did not want another baby so it was up to him to prevent. If he didn't act responsibly and I got pg (which I did, obviously







), that was on him.

DH came home early. He wasn't supposed to be home until the 29th but he got back yesterday. I'm supposed to leave for the mountains tomorrow. Now I don't want to go because dh can't. He is expecting me to go because it's been planned and I feel obligated because my mom is planning to go but I don't know how I'll be able to have any fun.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: thats not lying or even deceptive in my book. You never know - I never imagined Gabe would be this attached at 3. (or nearly 3) - I mean, the boy runs ahead and is independent and loves to do things on his own, but he is still very much a mama's boy. I love it - but it 's getting a little old. Norah, I have no idea what she'll be like as she's older. She is such a different person than Gabe. easy in some ways, hard in others.

MW: trip . . . Isn't DH going with you later this year? I say go, but only because I would have a really hard time finding areason to stay.

Also: JJ - hooray on potential doula clients!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm the opposite I suppose b/c I really mentally in my head am done. It's my heart that isn't complete. I just know what I can and can't handle. So. DH knows to wrap it up no matter when -- and like I said, not to trust me at all when I'm fertile especially if I've had wine!

Lately DH and I are out of sync again with the intimacy. He is acting really childish about it again. Always happens when I'm not getting enough sleep. Last night he said to me, "You've completely forgotten about me..." and I had to stop in my mind and try to see it from his POV. Ok, so apparently two bjs in the past week is forgetting about him. (Honestly when I'm this out of it and not feeling like dtd, I'd rather just deal with bjs b/c I personally don't want anything!!) I said to him, "I think it's more like you've forgotten about ME. How tired I am, how much I have to do to keep the house in order, how hard it is for me to surpress my emotions all day long when dealing with tantrums -- I think you need to get your head out of your ass and stop only thinking about getting off."

Yeah that didn't go over well. He drank a ton of whiskey and fell asleep on the couch.









I just need to get to a middle ground with him. I don't know how. I have no drive. I'm almost turned off most of the time by all his mannerisms and up front "go put the kids to bed so I can do you" sort of comments.

I want to get back to how it was when we were dating and he tried a little harder to persuade me. When he would be romantic. I don't mean candles and flowers -- but a simple, you look cute today, or you're such a great mom, I'm so happy you're my wife, little things like that. Sigh.

I got desperate last night. The up for 2 hours in the middle of the night is killing me. I gave Finn about an 1/16 of a tsp of melatonin and boobed him and he FINALLY went back to sleep.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I only do bj as a foreplay thing; not as a means to an end - far to into actual sex. If I had no drive, probably wouldn't be in the predicament I'm in! LOL DH gets grumpy with no sex. He didn't used to. - But then, he used to be the one with no drive, where sex was a chore. So, I guess we're even  I wish I had more, but at least I have some drive, and yes, getting sleep is paramount! without that . . . man.

Melatonin and boob do the trick? that's not a bad thing. Wayne really upped the romantic stuff for our anniversary. IDK how I'm ever going to top that. *sigh* Not that I regret it or anything. 

Are you managing an occasional date lunch/night so have a couple hours just the two of you? that helps.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> MW: trip . . . Isn't DH going with you later this year? I say go, but only because I would have a really hard time finding areason to stay.


Yes, he's supposed to go with us in November. The main reason to stay is because we haven't seen him for 3 weeks. It seems wrong to leave right after he got home after not seeing him for so long. Also, I'm not looking forward to driving all that way by myself with the kids but I knew I might have to do that.

Carrie ~ Your dh is pretty lucky. We have only dtd twice since mine got back from Afghanistan in March. And, he never gets bjs. I will not do them!

I know what you mean about needing the romance. It's not really romance, just some non-sexual attention and appreciation.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Melatonin and boob do the trick? that's not a bad thing. Wayne really upped the romantic stuff for our anniversary. IDK how I'm ever going to top that. *sigh* Not that I regret it or anything.
> 
> Are you managing an occasional date lunch/night so have a couple hours just the two of you? that helps.


 Yes the melatonin works great. It really helps Nora too on certain nights when she is just unable to fall asleep. And I take it too when I'm too wired to fall asleep. This household would be lost w/o our melatonin!

Sigh. No. We haven't been on a date in months and months. It would really help. Soon. We must do that soon.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I know what you mean about needing the romance. It's not really romance, just some non-sexual attention and appreciation.


You're right! It's attention. A different attention. I don't like feeling like I'm just a ball and chain he can tell to bend over as he wishes.

I want to want him. I don't know how to get there.

I think it's so interesting, mw, you don't want to go away bc your hubs is back. I think having a DH who works from home and is always around makes it really exciting for me to go places and do things w/o him.

I think the one thing that strains our marriage more than anything else is having both of us home all the time. I try to get out as much as I can! But then the house is never really tidy b/c I'm never home to do it, so it's a toss up.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

When I am home, and the kids are asleep or busy, the last thing I want to do is tidy things! I'd rather lay around and read! LOL. DH is home quite a bit, but I am very used to having the kids out on my own. IDK if that will change, once the 3rd arrives.

I don't know if its about bending to his wishes, per se, as being an object soley for sex. That's what makes me mad - barely talking all day and him wanting to be jumped. Um. NO. not gonna happen. BJ didn't happen for us until recently, bc he always said that it wasn't a big deal to him. Well . . . evidentally I just wasn't good at it when I tried early in our relationship, but I have magically gotten better. So, they happen now. I don't mind.

I need a cleaning fairy!

Does Sean want you to go?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Yeah I guess I do feel like an object for sex sometimes. I even told him that once. That I don't just want to be that. Kat it really can be like that. Some days, like yesterday, he leaves for the city before we get up and then gets home around bedtime. Maybe we've texted a few times thru out the day with just little things, but no contact really. He comes home late and then expects something. Idk. No.

This is all my perception. I'm sure his POV has a completely different truth.

I'm fine taking the kids out, it's just that in our chaos to leave we leave a disaster behind. Then coming home to that and a grumpy DH is really a pain. I need a cleaning fairy too!

I've had bins of clean clothes in the LR waiting for me for I think 3 days now. Three. I just can't bring myself to do it. I hate folding laundry.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Insometimes just sort it into different baskets and don't fold. Lazy mommy.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Relationship stuff is so hard when everyone is tired and overextended! I try to aim for DTD at least once a week. When I'm fertile, I'm much more inclined to DTD. The rest of my cycle, I really have to work at it. One of my DH's love languages is words of affirmation so he's always telling me nice stuff about how he appreciates me and loves me and I'm an awesome mom. But I'd rather he shut his trap and do some work around the house! Isn't that funny? And I run around like a nut trying to do a gazillion things and he gets upset because I don't tell him how much I appreciate him.







Ya can't win...

AFM, spotting has started so no babe this cycle.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh that is too funny! And I can totally see how that would also be annoying and frustrating. Tonight DH totally rocked it out. He worked HARD today (busy at work, nonstop) came down and made dinner, cleaned the kitchen, hung out with us, helped get the kids ready for bed, made Nora's lunch for tmw, and is now rocking finn to sleep b/c he wouldn't nurse down (crazy child is exhausted, no idea why he didn't). I appreciate this help so so much! So what is wrong with me?? What is my issue that if/when he comes out and wants sexy time, why do I act annoyed and bothered??

So beat. Hoping sleep is better tonight, but I'm not holding my breath!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

IDK if dh doesn't want us to go. He didn't say anything one way or the other. He did come home tonight and help me pack after dinner. I made a comment about him wanting to get rid of us, which he denied. He just figured he'd help since I wasn't motivated. He also brought home a bottle of wine and (tried) to drink a glass with me. Makes me suspicious.









The love languages can be frustrating sometimes. They can also be good to know because you can stop yourself when you start to get annoyed and remember what's really going on. Rather than thinking that your partner doesn't love you because he didn't tell you that he loves you a gazillion times, you can remember that he showed his love when he made sure your car had gas, your tires were properly inflated and the maintenance was up to date.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

And, Carrie, it can take a while to get over resentments. One day of making an effort doesn't necessarily fix everything, especially if you feel like it was only done so he could get sex and won't be a regular thing. Definitely show him you appreciate what he has done (and I don't necessarily mean with sex). If you don't, he may not bother next time.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I really need to read this love languages book. It sounds like it would really help us where we are at in our relationship.

I did thank him! And not with sex. LOL. I really let him know that I appreciated all he did and even pointed out that I knew he had a tough day and still totally did all that stuff and more.

We stayed up til 11 watching a dumb horror movie. Sigh. When will I learn to just watch a 30 min show with him and then go to bed???

I need more coffee. Another not so great - but not terrible - night. Soon they start sleeping better, right? I think even Nora was mostly sttn by 18 months...

I thought Finn was feeling heavier so I weighed him on my scale this am. Yep! 29.4 lbs. Oye!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

ITA with MW: let him know it's appreciated - one way or another.

I don't really have a "goal" of how often to have sex. I have an ideal (EOD or once every 3 days - but if we have back-to-back days I need a day or two off to recover) But I think the actuality is more like twice a week. And considering in my first pregnancy, I think we DTD maybe once a trimester, except at the very end when we were trying to help encourage labor, that's a big improvement. It was slightly better in Norah's pregnancy, I think it was like once a month. We have never DTD so often, or so regularly than since she's been born. I am very happy about that. When we were going through long dry spells, it was so easy to say 'it's been a week, a month, 6 weeks, what's one more night?' and keep putting it off it's easier to initiate and stuff when there isn't such a high rate of being turned down, I'll admit.

Busy weekend ahead, full of birthday parties, etc. Need to clean today!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I could do twice a week. I think that's reasonable. I think we do that often, but then get busy/tired/grouchy and fall behind, and then it's harder to get back into the routine, like you're saying.

Anyone else watching this hurricane sandy stuff? I'm super bummed it's going to wash out my kid's first ever halloween parade. I know, lame to complain about that when it's causing such destruction, but still. If I'm being honest...

Yay parties! I'm so partied out! I'm def cleaned out! I know that's why I can't get my head around any cleaning lately!!!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Insometimes just sort it into different baskets and don't fold. Lazy mommy.


I think that's genius. Then Chris won't have to dig for his stuff and get aggravated.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Argh! So frustrated! My mom is always promising to come take Ava for a few hours so I can do some heavy duty cleaning and every single time, she bails. She promised to come get Ava this morning but she woke up with a headache. Ugh. I just need like two solid hours. My house is not that effing big. Ok rant over. I don't know what to think about the storm. I need to get some batteries for my pump. And hope I can find a friend with power if we lose it so I can take my frozen milk over there.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

UGH! Yes, that would frustrate me too. I rarely get much deep cleaning done. Honestly it's b/c they just follow me everywhere. I realized that's why I rarely go into the basement or into my room even, b/c whenever I go anywhere they follow me! Gets really old!

I'm not sure what I think either except that I'm glad I bought wine and whiskey just in case we are trapped inside for a few days.

I really hope Nora has her Halloween party at school. Even if they cancel the parade, I still want her to have this!

I'm starting WW again (started yesterday) and man. I was really eating a ton of crap. Day 2 and already I feel better! I'm ready to look as good as I feel!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I need to do stuff like vacuum the cobwebs from every corner of every room, scrub the floors, sort some of the clutter on the kitchen counter, etc. Ava follows me around everywhere too. Apparently she doesn't do that with DH because last Sat afternoon, after Ava had literally chased me from room to room and was in the middle of begging me to hold her while I pumped, DH asked "Is this what she does every day?" Ummmmm, yes. WW...yeah that's so not happening right now. Just got back from WF with two bottles of red wine and a brownie the size of my face! And as soon as I'm done pumping, I'm taking a nap with Ava!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm so hungry this time. I think I was really comforting myself with food -- chips, especially. I was buying salt and vinegar chips and going thru the whole bag in like 2 days. And then I'd buy more. Not so healthy!

I think the way I was compensating for the sleep deprivation and all was with food. I'm tired, ok, I'll go get a 12" sub with chips and soda. Done. Sigh. It's hard to face reality! I think I'll actually have more energy though with eating healthy. So far today I've had coffee, a huge spinach salad, and a small sandwich with soy turkey slices. I need to drink more water.

I picked up a box of hair color while I was out. I think I'm going to do it tonight! I'll see. Time to ditch the brassy highlights!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I've got like 12 seconds before tenley decides she's bored and starts bugging me again, but any good thoughts, prayers, wishes that you guys have, would be graciously accepted this way. I spent the morning at the hospital with my backup doula. She's 19 weeks pregnant, and has been having pretty much constant bleeding with off and on gushes since 12 weeks. She's been diagnosed with a partial placental abruption, and the doctor is recommending termination, and she is completely torn about what to do. The baby is so far completely healthy, but it's been very hard on her physically, as well as emotionally obviously. She's worried she'll have a full abruption at home, or with her other kids, and not make it, so she's very much considering the termination, but can't bring herself to make the decision. So just... any peace and good thoughts sent her way! My heart is breaking for her. This was a very much wanted pregnancy, and her first boy after 3 girls. The best they can offer her right now is to hope she can hold on until 24 weeks without a full abruption. But there's nothing they can -do- to help. She's just... waiting.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh no! That is tragic. Keeping her in my thoughts!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh no JJ! I'll be praying for your friend. That's so sad!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Ugh. I keep coming back to try to write more, and I don't know how without writing a novel. I feel horrible for her. She keeps saying it would be easier if the fetal assessment showed the baby was sick or in danger or something, but right now, they say the baby looks perfect. And she just kept saying "I don't know if I can do that to him... he's healthy, and then he would be... gone...." But then she's also worried about her health as well, obviously. She's been in the hospital several times, and obviously is super low on iron, and her hemoglobin is all out of whack. They've got blood on standby for her. She woke up Wednesday night in a pool of blood at home. So she's terrified that it'll happen again, and she'll pass out from the blood loss before she technically wakes up, and her kids will find her in a pool of her own blood.

I just... I can't imagine trying to make the choice. She's pretty pro-life too, but I mean, this is one of those "less than 1% chance" situations that you hear about. They won't consider the baby viable until 24 weeks, and even then, it's only about a 55% survival rate. So she would have to go through another 5 weeks, day by day, watching the bleeding and hoping she doesn't have a full abruption while she's at home (they want to send her home to just... wait.). And even waiting those 5 weeks doesn't guarantee anything. Ideally it would be 10 weeks. At 29 weeks, they're giving it more like 95% survival, although obviously that's not without complications!

She's worried that her husband won't be able to forgive her if she terminates. BUt also is worried if she doesn't her own life is at risk. Yesterday morning she said she woke up, completely at peace that termination was the only answer. And then today after the assessment, thinks she can't go through with it... but still doesn't know.

And since she's so far along, if they do terminate, she'll birth the baby. She asked if she could be put out for it, and was told they don't usually do that. That some doctors might, but it's not typical. So she might have to go through a labor with him anyways, knowing that there's no way he'll survive. I can't imagine that either. 19 weeks is... big. That's a baby. I worry that if she does get put out, and doesn't get a chance to say goodbye and hold him, that she'll regret it. I want to send her info on the Now I Lay Me Down To Sleep program, but don't want to offend or upset her either.

deep breath. SO much emotion tied up in this. My heart just aches for her.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh my god. So terrible all around. Is it not possible for her to go on complete bedrest or be admitted to the hospital? I can't imagine choosing to kill my baby. I just can't. Oh that poor mama! I just heard from a friend that a girl we went to high school with just birthed her 20w twins due to incompetent cervix. They didn't survive obviously. Oh I just can't imagine the heartache.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Apparently the doc told her that bed rest in these cases won't actually help. He's not sure she beliefs that as she feels like the bleeding has been less in days she's taken it really early, but who knows. She's been pretty sick though, so she's been pretty close to be bed rest for the hole pregnancy anyways. I'm not really sure why they're not keeping her in the hospital but I think part of it is her emotional state at not seeing her other children. For some reason her husband isn't bringing them by very often- she hasn't seen them in 2 ad 3 days







she's got a 3 yo tht is very upset about mama being gone. She's staying inhospitable until mon/tues but technically he dr said she could go home now f she wanted. I can't imagine how staying fist beneficial, but then I'm not a dr and haven't done a to. Of research on abrupt ions.

Ps I both love and hate autocorrect but am way too lazy to go back a d fix all that. I think you get the gist.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

This is me being naive - what happens if she has a full abruption at home? Is her life also in danger?

Not nearly as bad but I also am going thru something with a friend. She is hoping for a vbac and is now 41 weeks. Her mw wants her to do castor oil tmw, or induce on Tuesday. My friend isn't happy with these options at all, so she asked for more time. If she doesn't go into labor on her own by this coming Friday, she has to have another csec on Monday. She is just so beside herself. :-( The OB won't do an induction after 41 weeks 1 day. So lame. So so so lame. All she wants is what she deserves, a TOL. Not fair.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I think you can hemmorage from a complete abruption so yes, I'd say if that were to happen while she was home alone, her life could be in danger. That's why I don't understand the discharge option. Times like that make me thankful for our litigious society. No OB in the US in their right mind would discharge that lady for fear of wrongful death lawsuit, you know?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: please keep us posted on your friend! if it were me - I would have a very hard time terminating a healthy baby, especially at the point she is at. I would be demanding hospital bed rest, for both our sakes. I would miss my other kids, but my health - and the new baby's - would be paramount. I had a friend with a partial placental abruption who was placed on bed rest probably around the same time as yours. She was in and out of the hospital until she finally delivered at 37/38 weeks. Healthy baby. But she also had a ERCS (her doctor told her her pelvis just wouldn't work to deliver babies vaginally SMH. I hate docs who tell women their bodies are broken) but it was probably a good thing - her uterus was stretched very, very thin and she had lots of bleeding during the surgery. No more babies for them.

No matter what she chooses - there is no easy decision and I'll be praying.

Carrie . . . and whoever else is in the storm's path - I hope you stay safe, your power stays on, and there isn't too much damage to your homes. And I hope you stay sane. Cooped up in the house indefinitely isn't a recipe for happiness.

Crap. I forgot anything else.

Oh well. Busy weekend behind me. We had a blast, the kids were worn out, now back to the normal grind. woot. Next weekend is a mom's night out for me, a wedding shower for a cousin. Then, who knows? We need more money, because there is much coming up that I want to spend it on!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I really can't say what I would do either. Unless i was facing that exact situation, I'm in no place to offer advice or anything. I can't even imagine. Having the other children to care for...knowing they needed their mama...knowing that the outcome for the baby really doesn't seem good in any case...though, I know I'd have a hard time separating that logic from my heart....

Sigh. Not easy. Not at all.

AFM - It's really nasty looking out there already. Windy, rainy, and scary. Just ran the dishes and hoping to get showers done soon so we can fill the bathtub with water. Hopefully we don't lose power. We didn't after Irene so I'm hoping we won't this time either.

Nora is really being helpful. She totally gets what is going on and is being weather girl! She keeps talking about Hurricane Sandy. She isn't scared but she is being very serious. It's cute. It's nice that she gets it and is being helpful. Doesn't mean she isn't still being whiny and tantrumy tho!

Finn is teething and is inconsolable. He's so so so freaking whiny. I never give pain reliever during the day but yesterday I did. I had to. He's walking around clawing at his gums and wailing. So miserable. Doesn't make for a good couple of days stuck in the house!

DH has work today. Hopefully his work is dead so he can kind of hang out with us too.

Not much else to report around here! I'll be around!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Love Nora the weather girl!

Hope Finn is feeling better. My kids haven't ever been teething that badly, knock on wood.

Norah is being super cuddly this morning. I love it, but it makes it hard to get work done. Weather is gorgeous, hard to imagine th nastiness just a bit further up the coast.

I swear both my kids are going through a growth spurt. I hope Gabe doesn't need bigger clothes before winter's over. Norah's weight gain is slow, but the child is getting taller by the week. I am finally gaining weight . . . my belly is popping. I'll post a belly pic on Weds, which will be 22 weeks.

Be safe!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I think you can hemmorage from a complete abruption so yes, I'd say if that were to happen while she was home alone, her life could be in danger. That's why I don't understand the discharge option. Times like that make me thankful for our litigious society. No OB in the US in their right mind would discharge that lady for fear of wrongful death lawsuit, you know?


Yes, this is basically the concern, that she will have a full abruption and essentially bleed out before they get care. Apparently they have blood sitting on standby for her, but she hasn't needed it yet, thankfully. I also think it's crazy that they're sending her home. I would be parking my butt in the hospital bed and not moving.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> JJ: please keep us posted on your friend! if it were me - I would have a very hard time terminating a healthy baby, especially at the point she is at. I would be demanding hospital bed rest, for both our sakes. I would miss my other kids, but my health - and the new baby's - would be paramount. I had a friend with a partial placental abruption who was placed on bed rest probably around the same time as yours. She was in and out of the hospital until she finally delivered at 37/38 weeks. Healthy baby. But she also had a ERCS (her doctor told her her pelvis just wouldn't work to deliver babies vaginally SMH. I hate docs who tell women their bodies are broken) but it was probably a good thing - her uterus was stretched very, very thin and she had lots of bleeding during the surgery. No more babies for them.
> 
> No matter what she chooses - there is no easy decision and I'll be praying.


Thanks Kat. I know what you mean with doctors giving patients... pessimistic information? I don't know if that's the right word. It's not fair, when you're trying to trust your doctor and they're fear mongering.

Which... I'm starting to wonder. I asked the friend about getting a second opinion, because she was upset that the doctor basically told her to terminate, and if she didn't, then to go on with normal life. That's SO contradictory. If it's serious enough to terminate, then she should NOT be going on with normal life! Although remembering, I guess it's because he told her that point blank, he just didn't think the baby would be viable. Perfectly healthy now, but the doctor did not believe she would carry long enough for the baby to survive. Anyways, I asked about a second opinion, and she said thisa guy was SO highly regarded that she didn't think it was worth it.

But doing some research, it sounds like it's not as likely to be a serious case as he was making it sound. Especially not if she's in the hospital. So now I'm confused all over again, for her. The research I read says abruption happens in about 1/150 deliveries. And causes fetal death in about 1/800 to 1/1600. And that's based on the full abruption happening essentially during or immediately before delivery. It's not talking about what's happening with her so far, which is a partial abruption still. I know it likely will turn into a full abruption, but it hasn't yet... The only research I found on maternal death was a bit old, the study spanned 1972 to 2005, but it was 1/2500 cases. The doctor is making it sound like she's got a 1/10 chance of dying...

It's just... there's so many variables. You would think in a hospital, where she's being heavily monitored, and has access to transfusions if needed... it shouldn't be as big of a deal as if it happened unexpectedly....

I don't know what I'm getting at. I guess that I would hate for her to terminate this wanted pregnancy because a doctor values the fetus' life as replacable. "Well this one has risk, so terminate, and have another baby."

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I really can't say what I would do either. Unless i was facing that exact situation, I'm in no place to offer advice or anything. I can't even imagine. Having the other children to care for...knowing they needed their mama...knowing that the outcome for the baby really doesn't seem good in any case...though, I know I'd have a hard time separating that logic from my heart....
> 
> ...


DH and I had a talk last night about what we would do. I came to the conclusion I couldn't do it. I think I'm in the same boat as her-- had the ultrasound shown that the baby was suffering, I would feel different. But to be told the baby was perfectly healthy and tolerating all of it... I just don't know that personally I could ever forgive myself and move past it. I think I would move into the hospital, and wait it out, try to get to 28 weeks at least. Rob wasn't on the same page though. He thinks it's too much of a risk.

Oh Carrie! I'll be thinking of you guys! I should probably turn the news on today. I'm in such a bubble, I never read or watch the news, and never know what's going on, unless it's reported on FB. It's horrible. One of the reasons I'm anxious to go back to work!

Hopefully everything goes well and you guys keep power, and have time to get everything properly prepared. Keep us updated!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I swear both my kids are going through a growth spurt. I hope Gabe doesn't need bigger clothes before winter's over. Norah's weight gain is slow, but the child is getting taller by the week. I am finally gaining weight . . . my belly is popping. I'll post a belly pic on Weds, which will be 22 weeks.


Yay belly pictures!

Growth spurt here too with Tenley. She's getting so much taller! I don't think she's gaining weight either thought, just length.

Put her snowsuit and new boots on her last night and went for a stroller walk. Love the boots, the snowsuit (it's a two piece) is not as great as I thought. She already has my problem, where the torso of things is never long enough. So the jacket looks like it should be a good 2 inches longer. *sigh* Maybe I'll keep my eye out for a new snowsuit.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Norah has a similiar long torso, but I like to keep her in one pieces, or dresses and tights/leggings that can be bunched up over or under shoes to give the illusion of fit. I hate baby shoes, there is too much variation in size, unless you are stringently brand loyal, which I am not.

I will keep thinking of your friend. The doctor sounds like an a$$. Sorry, but he seems to have no sympathy, which is ridiculous for an OB, especially a high risk OB, which must see a lot of things that are tragic, or potentially so. Especially given your new info, I don't think I could terminate. I would park myself on bedrest at home, and call on my friends to stand by (and family) so that I would never have to be alone. It would be hard, but if the doctor won't take care of her, then it would be up to me to do it myself, iykwim. And I'd find a new doctor. But this is all just me, talking in hypotheticals. The doc makes her options seem far too limited, IMHO.

Carrie - fx Nora stays entertained, and Finn isn't too miserable, and Chris doesn't have to work too much!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

ITA something isn't right with that dr's advice. I hope she searches her heart and finds a solution that works for her and her whole family.

FYI my friend took castor oil this morning. FXed that labor starts soon! The fact that they advised castor oil the day of a major hurricane really seems dumb to me. And her induction is scheduled for tmw at 6 am. Sigh. These docs are just so nuts.

Shoes - Finn just outgrew his converse and I've been really hesitant to buy him more shoes but I couldn't put it off any longer. I went to payless and found him the cutest pair of shoes (size 6.5). He's b/w clothes sizes. Pants are 18-24 and shirts are 24 or 2T.

Ugh, this morning he took a huge poo and it breached his (cloth) dipe, and poo got all over the rug. He needed a bath so bad. Ugh it was so nasty. I hate runny teething poo! Anyway, bath = torture for him. You'd seriously think I was trying to murder him in that tub. Lauri - can Ava PLEASE send him a text msg about how awesome baths can be?? 
Anyway, he's bathed and playing nice for a change, and Nora is quietly playing with her dolls. AHHHH can this last all day? I could use it!

Chris has been working nonstop unfortunately. His calls are for London and stuff so he has had work to do. Bummer.

Hungry! Lunch soon. Been counting points for a few days and am already down 4 lbs! I know it's water but every bit helps!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Oh, Carrie! I forgot your friend. With Norah, I used the breast pump, worked like a charm, and no nasty side effects. Maybe recommend that if she hasn't tried already? If she's not having any contractions, pump in 10 minute intervals. If she is, pump until she has one, stop while the contraction is working, then turn back on after. I was doing mine every 7-10 minutes in an effort to get them stronger and closer together when my water broke.

Yay for happy kids. Norah is sleeping, Gabe is eating lunch. I am trying to work, DH is at work and going to brave the new whole foods (it's awesome, but CRAZY busy right now) for more of the frozen waffles I found that Gabe likes.

And also - 4 lbs! woot!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I have a really tough time with a physician recommending termination. Many doctors recommend termination when heart defects are diagnosed prenatally. At least give the baby a fighting chance. Geez. I'd really push for a second recommendation. One of the things I love about Ava's cardiothoracic surgeon is he doesn't throw in the towel so fast. The day Ava had her first surgery, her NICU next door neighbor had her shunt clot up and she coded. He had to basically go straight from Ava's surgery in to her emergency surgery. She had been coding for over an hour by the time they got her down there and EVERYONE else was trying to get him to call it. He refused and opened her back up and got things fixed. She's had some struggles because of it but she is alive and doing great in spite of it. I just can't envision killing a healthy baby. As for us, I wish I could get Ava to help on the bath front Baby_Cakes but Ava has started boycotting them too! I think she's bored though. Too much else to explore out of the bathroom. Need to get her more bath toys. We're waiting on the high winds and heavy rain here. I really hope we don't lose power. I don't want to have to figure out alternate pumping locations!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks for that tip, Kat. I passed it on to her, even tho her son is still nursing, using the pump cannot hurt. I think she's starting to lose hope. I texted her one last time and said I'll keep her in my thoughts and light a candle for her and baby, but I'm not going to bother her anymore. I think she really needs to disconnect and get out of her head, honestly. I hope things work out. She really, desperately needs a better birth experience. (Her last csec was an emergency. She was induced at 41.5 weeks and while she was having a contraction, she gushed blood. Placental abruption. Codes were called and she was rushed in to surgery, baby inhaled blood and was in the nicu for 2 days, fed formula, etc). She was planning a good experience this time, is so much more informed. My heart is just aching for her.









Still just really rainy and windy here! Nora has set up her craft table at the window so she can watch the hurricane.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

What a scary situation for her! but in the first case, a c section was unavoidable. In this case, I think it is. And BTW something I always have to remind myself - is that just bc you have an induction or c-section scheduled, doesn't mean you have to SHOW UP. big difference.

I have totally btdt. Thankfully my doctor (who didn't think I'd go into labor on my own and that I was a poor candidate for even a mild induction) was willing to give me a couple more days to wait, despite his concerns about blood pressure and low fluid. I will keep thinking about her. It's hard to get out of your head.

Annie - glad you have such an amazing cardiologist for Ava! it's a comfort to know he's willing to fight hard for his little patients.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> What a scary situation for her! but in the first case, a c section was unavoidable. In this case, I think it is. And BTW something I always have to remind myself - is that just bc you have an induction or c-section scheduled, doesn't mean you have to SHOW UP. big difference.


True!

So, castor oil cleared her out but nothing else. She had an u/s scheduled today so she went, baby is fine. Declined a cervical check (go mama!) and they rescheduled her induction for Wed at 6 am! Geesh. But she got what she wanted - more time. So. She's just hanging out now, still waiting.

Storm is ramping up. Getting a little more nervous.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I'm back.

Carrie ~ I hope you are safe.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW, glad you're home! Baby_Cakes, can she agree to daily BPPs in exchange for pushing back the induction?


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Haven't heard from you on here or FB Carrie, hope all is still well!

If I were her I would also push for nst's etc and not submit to an induction unless there's a definite reason for one.

I'm hungry, but t is sleeping on me and has been having such horrible sleep lately that I don't want to mess withe her now. Tummy grumbling


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie's power is out according to Chris's FB.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I hope Carrie and family are holding up ok.

Not much going on here - work, kids, etc. Nugget is active, as usual - I love it. looking forward to being able to see and feel movement from the outside. Ultrasound is 9 days away!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

akind1, I'm so excited to hear whether the baby is a boy or girl. I know you are thinking boy, right? For some reason, I'm thinking girl. No clue why, that's just what I think whenever I think about you being pregnant.

Totally off topic but I was off work yesterday and had a bit of time to do some thinking. I came to the conclusion that I don't want to put Ava in preschool when she turns 2 or 3. I talked to DH about it last night and he agrees. I just started thinking about all the great programs we have access to like weekly library programs and there are great classes through the city rec program. Also the homeschool group is very active. I just can't imagine having her in preschool in the morning, then napping or resting in the afternoon and then I go to work. I'd hardly ever see her. So for now, I'm comfortable with that choice. We're going to start our first weekly class after Christmas. It's a weekly class for under 3s to move and do songs and dances. I'll start with that and see how she does. The city also has art classes for little ones and then after she turns 3, there are beginning ballet options or other movement classes. After Christmas, I'm also going to start doing a letter basket. It's a basket filled with items that start with the same letter and you put a foam letter in with the items so the toddler can play with them. At this age, I'll switch the items out every couple of weeks but as she gets older, I'll probably switch it out weekly.

I'm so excited for trick or treating tomorrow night! She had SUCH a good time doing it on Saturday afternoon. She's already eaten all the candy. How do kids know that candy wrappers have yummy things in them? Must be something subliminal in the packaging.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Bump pic! 

I hope Carrie is not without power for too long - she was able to FB briefly for an update yesterday, her house is fine, but without power. and it's cold!

Felt baby from the outside last night - lots of good strong thumps. Such an active little nugget


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Nice, Kat! I love feeling those little thumps.








showed yesterday. Finally! 53 day cycle this time. It was 55 last time so maybe it's shortening.

Dylan is sort of saying "hot". He waves his hand in the air and says "ha" in a kind of airy whisper. I think he also said "ball" the other day. He was holding a toy bowling ball, said "ba" and threw it. The only problem is that a little later he was just running around playing and said "ba" again at nothing so I'm not sure.








He's definitely trying to talk more in general, making a lot more sounds and running on and on rather than just a short sound here and there. Still no "mama" or "dada" yet.

Oh, and his rash is almost completely cleared up after 5 days of wearing sposies. I've been stripping my diapers. I hope it works. If the rash comes back after going back to my CDs I don't know what I'll do.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

boo for long cycles. seriously. I hope mine holds off longer PP this time, though 5months isn't bad (better than some get).

Rash: glad it's better. I hope the stripping works. Norah had a yeast rash - large raised plains of redness - which cleared up in sposies, but then became blistery (while still in sposies). I put her back in cloth, and the blisters are slowly healing. We have good days and bad days. IDK what to do. I don't think it's diapers, maybe something she's eating?

and words! progress - and so cute!

Norah was saying more, but I think she's focused on her physical stuff, bc right now she's not saying as many things clearly. She was saying mama, dada, water, banana, up, and down . . .now it's mostly just mama, dada, and down.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> akind1, I'm so excited to hear whether the baby is a boy or girl. I know you are thinking boy, right? For some reason, I'm thinking girl. No clue why, that's just what I think whenever I think about you being pregnant.
> 
> ...


That makes sense to me. People keep asking us about preschool (montessori is like... some sort of family required cult like option here for DH's family), and I just keep saying that we'll see once we get there. If we're able, I'd rather do activites and playdates with her. If I find we're not doing as many activities as I thought, then yes, I"ll probably put her in playschool for the interaction, etc.

We're going to try halloween tonight at my SIL's, there's going to be a small group of kids, so we figure we'll go to as many houses as she wants, and then head back to their house and hang out.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Bump pic!
> 
> ...


Love the bump! I Miss mine!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Nice, Kat! I love feeling those little thumps.
> 
> ...


Blah. I've always had very regular cycles, and I was worried what they'd be like pp, but they've been pretty regular too. I think 40 days the first one, and then 32 or something, and then since then 28-30. Super normal, just a short LP, which is normal I guess.

You use bamboo diapers usually, right? Could the moisture be bothering him? I noticed Tenley has gotten more sensitive to the wetness as she's gotten older. I think that's why she clears up so quickly in sposies, because it doesn't keep her bum wet. If I'm using the dipes as AI2s with the bamboo against her skin, I have to change her more often than if the diapers are stuffed and she has microfleece against her skin.

So, I think we've finally figured out how to cosleep comfortably!! I think the biggest thing has just been her getting older and "heartier" so we're not as worried about her in the bed, and making sure she's got enough space. And DH finally conceded part of his side too. Now we just kind of crowd into her. lol. However, since she's been in the bed more often, now she won't sleep at all if she's not with us-- either in bed, in the carrier or on a lap. It SUCKS. I need to get her back to being able to nap/start the night without us. And, she's still waking up sooo often. Last night was actually a pretty good night, I think she averaged wakeups every 2 hours. I went into the bed with her at 730, and just played on my laptop until around 830, and then I turned it off and played on my phone playing games until I finally fell asleep. It took forever for me to fall asleep, but she stayed a lot calmer with me in the bed. She slept from about 745 until almost 10, and then we settled her back to sleep until 11, when she nursed. And then nursed pretty much every two hours. Which is ok. I wish I had been able to fall asleep until than the 1030 or whatever I actually did.

I love that DH loves cosleeping so much. Like literally he comes to bed, and she's sprawled across his side, and he just sits there grinning at her, and he's like "I love sleeping with her... I love having her here." and just snuggles in beside her. Me? I'm like *grumble grumble* bedhog. lol. Don't get me wrong, I love sleeping with her, but I miss my space and being able to move properly.

My friend lost the baby. I don't know if it was a chosen termination or a loss from complications. I got the impression talking to her in the hospital that she didn't want people to know that she was thinking of termination, so I suspect it was a termination. She said she got to spend some time with him though, and they gave her a keepsake box with prints and things from him. I just feel so horrible for her.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ I'm so sorry for your friend. I can only imagine how difficult that situation is.

Yay for good cosleeping!

I do not usually use bamboo. Actually, I've only got maybe 3 bamboo dipes left and I've only been using them as a last resort. I'm using a combo of hemp, cotton and pockets/ai2s with PUL. The rash is the worst after using the PUL pockets except for the Wonderoos at night. Those still seem to make it better, which is strange since he is in those the longest. The only thing I can think with that is that the suedecloth does something. I can't now remember what the other pockets are lined with. I have to change those more often than any others. At home he's diaper free as much as possible. Hmmm, so really maybe it's only the PUL during the day.

I'm sure you all know that I think preschool is unnecessary.







The idea that parents can't provide everything that their child needs is really sad, imo.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: that is sad for your friend. No matter if it was her decision or just what happened, it's still devastating.

Cosleeping. I love it. I really enjoy being snuggled next to a baby. However, I miss having sex in the bed. We used to be able to with her scooted to one side, or in the side car, but now she's sleeping horizontally (picture DH ---Norah--- Me) and sleeps to lightly to be moved. Soon she will be in her own big bed, likely on the floor, so we should get the bed back to ourselves, at least for a little while. And yes, being able to move freely is very, very nice. But I know we won't get these times for ever, so I'm trying to cherish.

Does she wake up if you fall asleep with her and roll away once she's out?

MW: I love the microsuede cloth whatever it's called. Poo rolls off better and my kids always are less rashy with it. plain old microfleece just doesn't do as well. Not a big bamboo fleece fan either.I think it's better at moisture wicking, and the microfleece holds in heat more, or something.

I would only consider pre-school right now if 1) we had the money and 2) it was something DS would enjoy. mostly because with me working at home 4 days out of 5, it would be nice to not have him there on occasion. But I love being part of their day, it's why I do like to work from home. So, he's doing kindermusik on Monday's with DH, and we might try gymnastics or something good and physical next. He needs to use that energy. We also do playdates and stuff with the local AP groups, so he gets interaction. My mom is working with him on letters, which is ok. You know, he drew a B and an O the other day? and I don't know even why those particular letters. But hey, I thought that was nifty.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh JJ. I'm so sorry to hear about your friend and her baby. I will keep them all in my thoughts. akind1, that's quite a bump! I don't remember you showing that much so soon with Norah! But your pregnancy is moving right along, at least in my mind!  Based on FB, Baby_Cakes is still without power. I fel so bad for them! My DH loves cosleeping too. Last night, he wanted to bring Ava in between us. I said no because she was snoozing fine in her sidecar. But she woke up early and DH said to her "I bet if Mama had let me bring you in bed to snuggle with us, you'd still be asleep!" Hahaha! Love that man! I don't mind bedsharing but I'm not going to risk waking an asleep baby!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Preschool stuff. It's not that I think I can't provide what she needs but I always like to expose my kids to new experiences. If we did preschool, it would be Montessori. I don't have the room in my house to set up a Montessori-style play area and I do think there's value in that method. I just can't envision her going every day. I may change my mind when she's 3 or 4 and do 2 mornings a week or something. There is also a really great co-op preschool that requires parental participation. That may be a happy medium. Ava is just SUCH a social creature, I can see her getting bored with me.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Preschool stuff. It's not that I think I can't provide what she needs but


But that's the premise behind the idea of sending children to any school. It's the idea that the government and some people certified as teachers can provide our children with something that we as mere parents can't. The fact is that it's actually the opposite. The government and teachers and special schools and programs can only provide limited experiences that are contained within their program or curricula or facilities. Parents, a family, can provide unlimited experiences depending on what they are willing to do.

I went to a Montessori school for preschool. I think it's better than public school but it's still school. Montessori is actually a very strict program that does not allow for much flexibility if followed exactly. Of course, there are teachers who don't follow it exactly and who provide more flexibility but they still have their own agendas that may not fit with any one child's agenda. Just sayin'...


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Popping in real quick, I have internet for a minute. We still don't have power. The destruction is unbelievable in my area. My heart is just so so heavy.

My friend lives in a shore town and I cannot get in touch with her. I'm worried sick. Her town, according to the news, is underwater and the boardwalk swept away. I have no idea if she is still pg, if she's ok. I'm worried so sick I can't stand it.

Otherwise we are doing ok. No power is kinda annoying but it's nothing compared to what others are dealing with. We have water, no heat, but plenty to eat and hanging out with my in laws during the day bc they amazingly somehow have power back.

This is epic.

I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.

The gas stations are all closed and everyone is getting low on gas. No stores are open. It's bad, guys. Pray/think of everyone affected!!

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

So glad to hear you have a warm place to go Baby_Cakes! I hope you hear from your friend soon!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I do not usually use bamboo. Actually, I've only got maybe 3 bamboo dipes left and I've only been using them as a last resort. I'm using a combo of hemp, cotton and pockets/ai2s with PUL. The rash is the worst after using the PUL pockets except for the Wonderoos at night. Those still seem to make it better, which is strange since he is in those the longest. The only thing I can think with that is that the suedecloth does something. I can't now remember what the other pockets are lined with. I have to change those more often than any others. At home he's diaper free as much as possible. Hmmm, so really maybe it's only the PUL during the day.


Ahh, I think I was just thinking of your talking about wanting to use as much natural materials as possible and confused the two. Anyways, what I meant was the difference between a stay dry material or one which will keep the wetness against his skin.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Does she wake up if you fall asleep with her and roll away once she's out?


She'll only sleep for about 20 minutes once I leave the bed. It's fine if I need to grab a snack or something, but not enough to leave her to get anything actually done. And if she wakes up and I'm not there, she's almost impossible to get back to sleep, even if she's only been down for those 20 minutes.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Preschool stuff. It's not that I think I can't provide what she needs but I always like to expose my kids to new experiences. If we did preschool, it would be Montessori. I don't have the room in my house to set up a Montessori-style play area and I do think there's value in that method. I just can't envision her going every day. I may change my mind when she's 3 or 4 and do 2 mornings a week or something. There is also a really great co-op preschool that requires parental participation. That may be a happy medium. Ava is just SUCH a social creature, I can see her getting bored with me.


That's more what it is for me. Not the desire/need for her to -learn- things, but getting used to sharing, taking turns, using indoor voice, having a routine, etc etc. Things that if you're going to a lot of playdates (or have siblings), they learn anyways... but not if you're at home alone all the time, kwim? That's why for us it depends on how much we're still able to get out and make playdates and activities once she's older.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> But that's the premise behind the idea of sending children to any school. It's the idea that the government and some people certified as teachers can provide our children with something that we as mere parents can't. The fact is that it's actually the opposite. The government and teachers and special schools and programs can only provide limited experiences that are contained within their program or curricula or facilities. Parents, a family, can provide unlimited experiences depending on what they are willing to do.
> I went to a Montessori school for preschool. I think it's better than public school but it's still school. Montessori is actually a very strict program that does not allow for much flexibility if followed exactly. Of course, there are teachers who don't follow it exactly and who provide more flexibility but they still have their own agendas that may not fit with any one child's agenda. Just sayin'...


I think that's different than preschool/play school though. Or I guess it depends who you talk to. Yes I suppose there are people out there who send their kids to these things so they can learn the ABCs and numbers etc, but I think a large proportion of people just want the interaction side of it. I think those are two totally different things/aims.

That's what I thought about montessori too, but having looked into them more locally, that has not been my experience. They don't seem to be nearly as strict as people think.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Popping in real quick, I have internet for a minute. We still don't have power. The destruction is unbelievable in my area. My heart is just so so heavy.
> My friend lives in a shore town and I cannot get in touch with her. I'm worried sick. Her town, according to the news, is underwater and the boardwalk swept away. I have no idea if she is still pg, if she's ok. I'm worried so sick I can't stand it.
> ...


Good to hear from you Carrie!! Keeping all of you in that area in our thoughts and prayers. I can't imagine being in the thick of it. It's horrifying enough being far away.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

The main reason I like Montesorri as a learning experience is because the kids are kept in 3 year cycles, which makes it easier for the advanced kids to move ahead as needed, or the ones that need more time, the time to catch up. And the older/more advanced can help the younger/less advanced kids. Not to mention having the same teacher for 3 years is a good thing for a lot of kids that need that stability. IF my kids were going to do school, I like alot about the Montesorri approach. The centers for play and what not are carried over into a lot of other curricula too - it's not exclusively Montesorri (anymore).

As for the interaction, taking turns, etc - IF I had an only child, I'd be more apt to do more playdates and activites to get these. We still do as many as we can, because it's good for the kids to be with kids their own age (and older) and to interact with them. I think that's the biggest myth about home/unschooling - that kids arent socialized, or are more isolated, don't get to meet the variety of people, etc. That may be true for some people, but not across the board. There is a wide variation in our area of who homeschools here, and lots of homeschool groups. That's a great thing, IMHO.

Carrie - glad you are safe, and warm, and hoping your friend is ok as well. (maybe the drop in barometric pressure did something to start labor?)

JJ: boo for not staying asleep. Thankfully Norah does, generally, until she wakes and loses her paci. then she just needs it replaced.

The kids had fun trick or treating.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ It's strange because the pockets that have the microfleece lining that's supposed to wick the moisture away are the ones that cause the rash to flare up the worst. I assumed it was the PUL outer that traps the moisture in but the Wonderoos pockets have the opposite effect.









Carrie ~ Glad things are slowly getting better. Thanks for keeping us updated.

Again, I think you all are assuming that just because you have an only child, that child can't/won't get the "socialization" she needs from within the family. You are all saying that, for one reason or another, you cannot provide your child with everything you think she needs. That's just not true. You are all fully capable.

Unless the family is highly dysfunctional, the can learn everything she needs to know at home, especially in the very early years. You have to learn to share and take turns and get along even with your family if you want peace. Presumably, the child would be included in every day activities like cooking and cleaning and shopping (waiting your turn, standing in line, being polite). Children can learn those things through life. They don't need any kind of school to learn those things. They are taught school rules and school socialization at school, which is not exactly the same as life rules and socialization. Schools were originally designed to train children to be productive factory workers, not thinkers and doers. They haven't changed in any significant way since the beginning.

Playschool and preschool are two different things, imo. If I were interested in a playschool type thing for my baby/toddler/young child, I would do a Mommy and Me type of thing once or maybe twice a week, if that. Storytime at the library would fill the bill, or a local playgroup.

Annie ~ I'd be shocked if you couldn't find a local AP group up there.

I don't buy into the whole ahead/on track/behind thing. That's based on some arbitrary agenda that some educators (or was it businessman back in the day) put together. Not everyone needs to know or do the same things at the same time or even ever. Most people today agree that it's not helpful or healthy to compare ourselves to others but then we send our children into a system that does just that. Everyone is right where she needs to be in that moment regardless of where anyone else is.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

both microfleece and suede cloth work to wick away moisture, it seems purely personal preference which works better. microfleece pills, and I think traps heat more against the skin than microsuede/suedecloth. (which could lead to more rash) some babies react to microfleece more than the suede. and vice versa.

Personally, I like the suede cloth better. It's smoother, less bulky, and seems to do a better job of wicking moisture, but might need stripping more often. smaller pores means it gets residue buildup faster.

Only children vs. Sibling groups - I think more my point there is, IF I had an only child, I'd be more likely to try to get us out and involved with stuff than I do with siblings - because I do think learning to deal with children vs. adults is a good thing. A necessary life skill . . . idk - I mean, one day they will all be adults.

As far as ahead/on target/behind . . . I don't know that the ages for things are arbitrary - just an average. Like growth, physical milestones, etc - and you will have kids ahead of the curve, behind the curve, and right on it in every example. Yes, the kid is where they are. Like anything, I think as long as your child is following their curve, so to speak, there isn't any reason for concern. If I had a child that seemed ahead of the curve, academically (reading early, doing "advanced" math, etc) and that child suddenly stalled, I'd look for reasons why that happened, and for methods to get them back on track. And if I had a kid that perhaps seemed a bit behind, and they suddenly caught up, or moved ahead of average, I'd want to take a look at what changed, and try to encourage more growth.

One of the big things I do not like about age based daycare is I've been told by parents (when I used to work in one) that their children didn't know how to interact with their siblings at home - because they never did in daycare, and everyone in daycare was about their same level. I think having a multi-age group where littles can learn from olders, and olders can re-inforce their learning and also pick up some skills in the areas of patience and teaching is a much better learning environment (because it's similiar to a real life home structure). So IF you need to, or want to, put your kids in a care setting, that's why I like the Montesorri stuff.

While I believe, as a parent, I am capable of leading, guiding, teaching all that my child needs - and I really think MOST parents possess this ability too, I totally understand that some parents may not want to, or perhaps just don't feel capable, or perhaps they do not have the time or resources to do it themselves. And maybe some kids may fare better in an environment away from parents. So, if they choose to send their kids to school, then that's ok. I don't think schools should not exist, but I do think, like our healthcare system, the public school system is very broken, and it's not something I really would choose for my kids to take part in.

I hope I'm coherent today. I am a little on edge - kids were driving me nuts, but they are now both asleep, thank God!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

The thing is that once you put a child in school or a program where there is a norm and an advanced and a behind, the children will pick up on those labels regardless of whether or not you think they mean anything. They will see some children getting extra help/attention because they are behind, some children being pretty much left on their own because they are right on track and some either getting more work/approval/attention/excitement for being advanced or else being bored and floundering.
Quote:


> I totally understand that some parents may not want to...or perhaps they do not have the time or resources to do it themselves


This is an entirely different situation than thinking your child might get bored with you or won't learn everything they need to if they aren't in school. These are not situations that were brought up, I don't think. If you choose to put your child in school because you want them with someone else sometimes or want some time without them, that's fine, just say so.







And, of course, parents who are all working a lot and have to have someone else care for their children at least part of the time, again, isn't the same. That's a need. You can't leave your children unattended.

But, to put your child in preschool just because that's what everyone does or says you should do (because the real purpose of that is to get them prepared for school regardless of what anyone else says) is not a good reason, imo. Do it for your own valid reasons, not because you've (possibly unwittingly) fallen into the trap of believing that someone else can do a better job of giving your child what she needs than you can.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

And, by the way, I'm not talking about anyone on here. I'm just talking in general. I think a lot of parents just default to what everyone else does, put your 3 year old in preschool, without really thinking about it. Periodically, the age to start preschool is set younger and younger because children are supposedly still not properly prepared for school. That right there tells me there is something wrong with the idea that very young children need preschool. Maybe we should stop trying to separate our children from their parents earlier and earlier and let them stay and keep those bonds as long as possible. Give parents the resources and confidence to take care of their own children instead of making them feel like they aren't capable and need someone certified in something to do it for them.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I like your last sentence a lot. most parents are lacking confidence.

Most of the people I know that use preschool are really honest about why - it's not just "because" it seems mostly because they need a break, or because they are working, and single, or something.

I hate the government's attitude of putting young (often "welfare") moms to work, rather than compensating them for staying home with their kids. A lot of people think that's just the moms way of riding the system (and that may be true in some cases) - but I don't see how it serves to take kids and shove them in a (usually subpar) daycare just for mom to work minimum wage. But that's another topic for another day.

I need a pick me up. wonder where the halloween candy went to . . .


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Maybe it's the terms I'm getting hung up on. When Ryan was little I don't remember there being such a push for preschool. Rich, uppity New Yorkers who wanted their children to get into some exclusive private school would put their very young children in preschool. Otherwise, parents who worked put their young children in daycare. Now all the childcare places are calling themselves preschools like it's something special that very young children need when it's really not.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

We have "preschools" starting as young as about 18 months here, but from what I can tell, they don't do much more than a day care would - it's not really intense learning, or anything like that. once they hit 3-4, they introduce letters, numbers, shapes, and colors - but it doesn't seem to be really structured or intense. (still more than 3-5 y.o. "needs" IMHO) Gabe is picking up most of that just through our own interactions, TV, youTube, and grandma.

But, do they need to pick all that up, as early as 3? I don't think so, although for some things, like foriegn languages, the earlier you start, the more effective.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think parents have lost the confidence that they can educate their own children because we've been drilled for so many years that school is what we need to be successful. More and more people are finding that that is just not true and breaking away to do their own things.

So, there's an old man in our neighborhood who is handing out candy and money to the boys. He didn't pass out Halloween candy, though. I don't know him. A few of my nieghbors sort of know him but none well. I've told my boys to stay away from him. Just strange.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I've been around a lot of parents and kids as both a preschool teacher and nanny and I've gotta say, there are some parents that just don't know how to deal with little kids. The kids are better off in daycare, preschool, public school, etc. Of course, that's just my opinion. But being around a grownup that knows how to gently mold and shape a wild animal (did I say that out loud?!?) in to being a considerate human is much better for some kids that being with their biological grownups day in and day out. I won't name any names but I deal with four such humans on a semi-regular basis. Public, standardized schooling is their haven.

Now as for Ava, I know that on the days that I've not had much sleep, she'd probably be better off with someone else that can stimulate her more but I still try to pull it together for her. But she has a variety of caregivers that all have different strengths. Oh, we hung out with a new babysitter today! I had spoken with her a few months ago and we really meshed well. She's like me in so many ways, especially parenting styles. Her little boy is 19 months old. So we went over there today and hung out for an hour. Ava had so much fun that she only came and got in my lap once the whole hour. Otherwise, she was playing and having so much fun. Miss K loves to do art projects so she had her up in the high chair painting a christmas ornament. Ava loved it! We're going back over tomorrow afternoon and I'm going to leave for like 20 minutes to see how she does and also to show her that I come back.

How did everyone's littles do ToTing last night? Ava loved it. She didn't want to stop! And the scary stuff made her laugh. She had the best time!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> So, there's an old man in our neighborhood who is handing out candy and money to the boys. He didn't pass out Halloween candy, though. I don't know him. A few of my nieghbors sort of know him but none well. I've told my boys to stay away from him. Just strange.


Ugh. That's just weird. Definitely keep the boys away from him.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> there are some parents that just don't know how to deal with little kids. The kids are better off in daycare, preschool, public school, etc.


Yeah, I get that. I was sort of that kind of parent when Ryan was young. I wouldn't necessarily say that he was better off in daycare and then school but I was not prepared to be a parent and I didn't want to be one in a lot of ways. However, looking back, I think if I had had the confidence I do now I could have prevented a lot of the school damage that was done to him. I don't think that applies to any of us here now.







I started thinking about homeschooling when I really started gaining that confidence as a person and a parent but it took me a few more years to make it happen.

Dylan seemed unimpressed with ToTing. He didn't seem scared of anything but he didn't smile or laugh about it. I think he was trying to figure it all out. He didn't walk. Rode in the stroller the whole time. He liked eating the candy afterward, though.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh something else I was going to tell you guys. I went to get my hair cut (first time since December...yikes!) and the topic of me teaching NFP came up and I realized that I only have about 8-10 years of fertility left. Isn't that crazy to think about? Like it just hit me that I won't have to worry about getting pregnant for the rest of my life. Not sure why it never occurred to me before!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Kat-- you're summing up really well most of my thoughts on the issue. I don't like the idea that kids -have- to go to some sort of learning based group prior to starting their school, whether it be home or public, but I do think that some kids thrive in that environment, and there's a lot of benefit to the life based learning they get in that environment. But yes, I think you can also get that learning through playing at a park with other kids, or going to a gym class, or a playdate with friends or even just some good playing with siblings and relatives. But I do think it's harder to learn some of those social skills when your interaction comes only with siblings and relatives that you know really well already.

Now... I feel like I should add that IF you know that your child does not do well in these public organized settings (I've seen kids that really honestly don't), then obviously, it's the wrong thing to push them to be in those settings. A parent knows their own child the best.

MW-- Yeah, that man is creepy.

Tenley didn't nap yesterday afternoon, so she was pretty much exhausted by the time we went out TOTing, but we went out with her cousins, and she did seem to have fun. She'd smile every time someone put something into her bag, and then look down in wonder at it, like "Whoaaaa, you gave me something??"


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I so wish I could contribute to this preschool conversation!! But I just can't on this phone. I have so much to say and offer but not with one finger. Lol.
Our governor declared Halloween in NJ will be on Monday. I can't wait! I was really looking fwd. Hopefully we have power back by then. We are staying at my in laws until we do.
Thankful for generous family, seriously.
My "friend" who you guys know I've had issues with this past year, picked a ridiculous fight with me the day the hurricane hit us. After I told her we lost power, she retorted with some lame comment, trying to be funny. I didn't like it, and then she accused me of taking my stress out on her and said she was also stressed bc her daughter didn't nap that day. I lost cell service and couldn't continue the conversation, but I think it's for the best. I have nothing to say to her any more.
I hid her from my feed and let me tell you, that unfriend button was tempting.
We have been without power or heat now for 4 days and she has yet to contact me or even ask how we are. Yet she posts pics on fb and her life continues on. I'm hurt and mad, and mostly, done.

No Details, but my girlfriend had her baby. An update on fb is all I have. I'm desperate to know if she got her vbac.

Ok bedtime. Bbl!!

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie - I saw your friend had her baby (bc you commented on it, LOL) And I'd love to know as well! Glad you are with family - that's the best place to be. Having been through hurricanes and power outages, After about 2 days, it's no longer an adventure, and just no fun.

Can't wait to see the kids in their getups on NJ Halloween!

MW: that is creepy.

Norah LOVED ToTing. Didn't carry her bag, but loved going up to the doors and having candy in hand. I think I only gave her goldfish though. I think. Not that she didn't try to eat all of it. She loved looking through her treasure at the end of the night. She walked as much as I let her.

Annie - some women are fertile until they are 50, are you sure you only have 10 years left?

DH has his vasectomy consult appt on Tuesday. I am sure it will be fine. I am definitely ready to be done.

Now, I am not opposed to adoption if we want to expand our family at some point in the future, or surrogacy if someone I knew wanted to go that route. I am looking forward to nursing this last baby as long as they want, and not being interrupted by pregnancy.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Cahrrie (had to type that because Ethan started to say Carrie the other day but corrected himself with the proper NJ dialect) ~ I'm glad you are safe and warm. Glad your GF and baby are safe and sound, too.

Annie ~ I'm wondering about the only 8-10 years of fertility left, too. I'm 10 years older than you and I still have about 8 years or so left, I believe.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I was guesstimating the number of years based on when my mother went in to menopause. I guess theoretically I could have another 18 yrs or so. I've always wondered though if having a tubaligation can skew that. Anybody ever seen research on that? If permanent sterilization affects the timing of the end of menses?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Ohhh mamas. Bear with me...

‎5 days without power. 2nd night staying with my inlaws, 4th day hanging out with them. I adore them, I do, but I'm really starting to feel done with this whole situation. :-(

My MIL wrapped her coffee table in beach towels and a table cloth so the kids don't scratch it. It's an improvement, b/c otherwise all she did was shout every time they touched it or heaven forbid drive a car on it.
My BIL joked that now he knows why I drink wine. And can't fathom how we had a 2nd kid. They are so much work all the time.

I've been on constant kid duty making sure they don't spill, drip, take food out of the kitchen, get into anything they shouldn't, or break/touch/destroy. It's exhausting.

And then.. today finally as we drove away from our cold dark house, (we went to gather a few more things, check the cats) still with no power (day 5) I just broke down into tears. All this sadness, all this destruction. All the horrific loss. People with no homes, lost family, lost CHILDREN. Babies strapped in carseats, swept away by storm surges. People drowning in their own homes. Our shores are gone. 
And now they are rationing gas. We have 1/4 tank and can go on odd # days? How is this happening?
I'm overwhelmed. Completely overwhelmed. 
Then I look around and see how lucky we are and I feel so conflicted. How can I fucking complain???? I'm warm, I have my family, family who is generous and loves us...
And the tears start again. :-(

Not to be such a downer....but I think this is just starting to really get to me. It's been constant go go go get thru this -- but in the quiet moments it just washes over me and I'm just so upset.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh my goodness Baby_Cakes! I want to just give you a hug! Prolonged stress like that will really beat you down. I know it's tough surrounded by so much destruction and sadness. But for your mental health, try to find something to laugh about. When Ava was in the hospital the first time and I was just shellshocked from the whole experience, the thing that saved my sanity was watching stand-up comedy specials on Netflix. I laughed and for an hour, forgot about the sadness I was surrounded by. It really helped.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks Lauri.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie: that sounds awful - the destruction - I mean, in eastern NC growing up, we always had hurricanes, there was always damage, but we were nearly always pretty much back to normal within a couple days. I Cannot fathom dealing with that, in this cold, for as long as you have, and might need to.

Visit some of your mama friends that have offered. YOu need a break from the MIL.

So, moved DH's office to the main area, Gabe now has his own bedroom, Norah has a big girl bed. She seems to like it, we will see how the night goes. Gabe will find out tomorrow  He is at Nana's (and Grandaddy's) - It's been a long, busy day, and I am beat. But I think I have enough energy for ice cream.

IDK whether a tubal would affect menopause; you still ovulate. My mom is nearing 50 (she's 47) and still cycles, though it's becoming irregular. She hasn't had a tubal, though my dad has had a vasectomy. I figure I have probably 15-20 more years of fertility.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie. I haven't been reading or watching the news because I don't need to know those kinds of details about people dead or missing. There's nothing that can be done about it now. KWIM? Glad you are back in your home now. Hopefully, things will be back to normal soon.

Not much going on here. Dylan was sick all day yesterday but seems fine today. Kellen has vomited once this morning. Ethan is still in bed so I don't know if he's sick also.

I tried on my dresses last night for the MC Ball. They are all just the teeniest bit too tight. DH suggested I take the one to have it let out a little but that just seems weird to me. If I'm going to do that, I might as well just get a new dress. It seems like a waste to have something altered if I don't plan to stay this size. Does that make sense? I've put on about 10 lbs. over the summer and into this fall. IDK what is up with that. I guess I need to start exercising.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

So you are going? (i'm glad, but thought maybe you weren't?)

I'd get a new dress. But that's just me 

I hope the boys get, and stay better.

The kids are now each in their own rooms and really seem to like it. Norah woke once, Gabe twice. But since they each have a big bed, it's easy for us to go lay down with who ever needs it and get them to go back to sleep. And I must say, it's nice having the bed just DH and I for a little bit. Norah didn't like me cuddling with DH; she wants to be in the middle, LOL.

Carrie, I am following what friends I have on FB that are affected. Idon't watch the news anyway, so yall are my only source of info. Glad power is back and you can hopefully be back and relaxing in your own home.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> So you are going? (i'm glad, but thought maybe you weren't?)


i still don't know.







i just wanted to make sure i had something to wear in case dh tells me at the last minute that everything is set up. I went to a friend's Saturday night to celebrate her birthday. As I was leaving dh told me not to get too hammered because I needed to go gown shopping on Sunday.







Until then he hadn't talked to me about since I don't know when. I think he had arranged for Ryan's GF to babysit but then she switched jobs. I don't know if he's talked to her about whether or not she can still get the night off.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

LOL!

My nearly favorite part of the day: Norah wakes up from nap, Gabe runs back, all excited, baby wake! baby wake! jumps on the bed and they talk and giggle together. love it! (this is not so fun when it's a false alarm and she WASNT awake)


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I'd probably buy a new dress since doing a crash diet and nursing isn't a good idea. I hope you get to go! That would be so much fun! At least I think so.









akind1, that's great that they are enjoying their own rooms. I can't imagine the day that Ava sleeps in her own room. Craziness!

Baby_Cakes, still thinking about you chick. Hope things are getting better now that you have power back.

AFM, watching Ava walk is my new favorite activity! It's the cutest thing in the world to me and she's so pleased with herself! DH took a video this morning. Trying to get it on youtube so I can put it on FB.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Norah loves sleeping with us so much, I almost thought she never would sleep in her own bed. I think it's so much easier - especially if you co sleep - to transition to a big bed vs. a crib or toddler bed. I just feel kind of bad that my dad built us a beautiful crib we never use  Well, Gabe used it sporadically. Mostly it just looks pretty. I've never changed the sheets since Norah was born. Not even washed them, that's kind of sad.

Potty training Gabe is actually finally going ok. I think it helps we really havent been going much of anywhere, and when we are home, he is diaper free except for most naps (sometimes he falls asleep before I can put him in a diaper) and bed time. He really likes being naked. It's a good thing it's still pretty warm outside, or it has been. He, I think, is finally getting the idea about the "need" to go - at least pee. He only had one accident yesterday, and I think that's bc he was holding it so long, and really didn't want to pee up stairs at my mom's, and we didn't get how badly he needed to pee. But when we were like NO, don't pee on the floor! he stopped the stream, continued downstairs and finished peeing in the potty downstairs. So, progress!

MW: I know you've been to a ton of balls, but I hope you still go. Wilmington sounds fun.

Love watching babies walk! too cute!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

AHonestly, all the balls are the same and they really aren't fun. There's dinner, then a ceremony and boring speeches. Afterward, you can stay to drink and dance but most people leave pretty quickly. Wilmington really isn't fun at night unless you are a college kid or you like to go out to bars.

He asked me last night if Trish was going to babysit. I told him that I didn't know. I didn't talk to her about it. He said he was going to take care of it. Perfect example of him expecting me to set everything up, still! :irk He mumbled something the other night about having to ask Trish if she could still get the night off and then, apparently, expected me to do something about that. Sorry. Not my problem.

He's also still being goofy about Ethan going. He doesn't want Ethan around all the drinking but I don't see why we have to stay for that. He can have dinner, watch the ceremony and then leave. I guess maybe dh has to stay for a while since he's the host. IDK


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I didn't go to any balls until I was in high school . . .I mean, unless you stay stupid late, I don't think Ethan is going to be exposed to *that* much drinking and foolishness . . . I mean, most Marines I grew up with could be pretty stupid just sober. My parents said the balls they had off base were always more fun than the on-base ones - but yes, generally it's the same old same old. An excuse to dress up, go out, and party.

I hope everyone is feeling better - it's this weekend, no? I know the birthday itself is Saturday the 10th, but didn't know when your particular ball was scheduled.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

It's the 15th. I don't want an excuse to get dressed up and go out. I'm too tired.

I've never been to a ball on base. DH has to go to one this year because of his position. He's going stag to that one and doesn't care. No one wants to go to it. They have it every year and it's awful.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

If that's the big one, I don't blame anyone. It was horrible the one year I went to it.

The last one I went to, on Parris Island, was actually quite nice. Music was horrible, but it always is.

So: potty training question - we've been doing mostly naked time, and that's going well, however, how do you get them to put the underwear back on? He now wants to be naked all.the.time. and it's too cold for that! At least outside. (where he has peed twice today)


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I've never potty trained so I don't know. My kids are naked a lot at home. I don't fight with them to put clothes on them. When we go out, I have to but I don't have any tricks. I just get them dressed.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I really didn't feel like getting dressed up and going to that wedding on Sunday. We had such a great time tho! You should go!

re: potty training. We never did nakey time so I think I won't be any help. I read a bunch about the "best" way to ensure quick results and most said to use trainers of some sort (cloth undies with extra soaker) so that if any leaks out they feel it. But since G is having success just being naked...Idk. Maybe just put the undies on and distract him with something else super fun? He might forget they are on?

Do you want me to email you the 3 day method?

I'm here, reading along. I've had to do so much cleaning and with halloween yesterday and our power coming back it's been so busy!!! But I'm still here!

Oh - huge - we nightweaned! Right before the storm. Finn is officially night weaned and is actually SLEEPING at night! Took 4 nights of him sleeping with Chris...and then we moved in with my in laws. Chris slept with him the first night there, but wrecked his back b/c the bed was so small and stiff. So I took him the next night and dude, he slept 7 HOURS w/o even needing help resettling!! I don't think I've ever experienced that! The next night I had him again, and he woke I think once, but all I had to do was rub his back. Amazing. THANK YOU DR JAY GORDON! I set up a twin mattress on the floor next to my bed and started him out there last night. He did wake up and I brought him to bed, but all I had to do was lay him down. It's crazy exciting and I'm so happy it was such a smooth process.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie - that is freaking awesome! hooray for sleep!

The thing is, with undies or trainers he doesn't seem to care or notice when they get wet. He does notice when he pees on his foot. I think being naked makes him more consious of the act, if that makes sense. However, it's getting chilly, and he wants to play outside completely buck naked and pee in the grass like the dog. It's pretty funny, but I feel bad for him -it's chilly!

Glad you had a good time at the wedding! I have one to go to next month, I'm looking forward to it. except, I need shoes. Unless I really want to be pregnant in heels?

Generally, if we are going out, he will put on clothes. I just wonder about him telling us he needs to pee while wearing them. (like if he will . . ) I guess we will cross that bridge and pack extra clothes when we come to it.

I never thought potty training would be this challenging.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Yay for sleep Baby_Cakes! That's so awesome! Ava is getting closer to not needing as much milk throughout the night. Last night, she survived from when I got home at 12:30 AM until 7 AM on just 3 oz. Sometimes, I really wish she would take a paci because when she stirs, she really just wants to suck. She's fine just getting like an ounce or less of milk and then she goes back to sleep. So it's not from hunger I don't think. Oh well. I just keep a bottle next to me and stick it in her mouth.

akind1, I'd probably be inclined to leave him naked if he's not turning blue or shivering. Ava tolerates a lot cooler temps than I do so if she's asking to take her clothes off or she refuses to put anything on, I just leave her alone. I kept her naked from the bottom down for a couple of weeks and now she has started telling me most of the times when she needs to pee even if she has a diaper on. So maybe just give him a bit more time naked? Do you have a little potty seat out in the main living area so he has access when he needs to go w/out needing help from you guys?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Are you against pullups for going out? He'll get to that point of telling you, but at least you won't have to deal with messes out and about if you use a pullup (or cloth trainer) until then. Not a diaper, something he steps into like a pair of undies.

Even when Nora was trained pretty well at home (around 22-24 months) I would still put her "special panties" on when we went out. It helped my stress level!!

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I have moved his potty to the living room. I think that's helped a bit too. I put him in a diaper for nap yesterday, and left it on (I was feeling lazy) until after dinner with my parents. When we came down stairs, he took off his pants, asked to take his diaper off, and peed in the potty downstairs (all without being asked if he needed to go) - and his diaper was damp, but not really wet. So that was nifty.

I am really not opposed to extra protection while out and about (just hate the idea of BUYING pull ups; would probably just use the cloth trainers we already have) I am probably stressing over things that need not be stressed over. he will not be in diapers forever. That needs to be my mantra!

A little more than 24 hours until we know the gender of this nugget! I am so excited!

Annie - at this point you might could substitue water for milk if you wanted in her bottle, especially if it's mostly a sucking need she has.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Yay for gender scan! Oh, I'm so excited! That's great that Gabe is staying dry. I'm the same way about buying Pullups. I just can't. I bought one pack of disposables when Ava was discharged the first time from the hospital and that's it. I really like the concept/look of the Flip trainers but I feel like Ava is halfway trained so it's hard to justify the expense, you know? I need to order some Gerber 18 month cloth trainers. I don't know about putting water in her bottle. That may piss her off and wake her up completely! This morning, she stirred around 6 AM but I didn't have any milk ready because I needed to pump. She resettled for another hour without sucking anything. She's very close.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yay for sleeping, Carrie. Dylan has been sleeping longer, too. I think he's been going at least 5 hours in the first stretch before waking to nurse. After that first wake up, he stirs a lot more often but that 5 hours feels like heaven. I can't rub his back to resettle him. He gets mad and pushes my hand away.









He threw up at dinner last night and once in the middle of the night. IDK what that's about. He hadn't vomited for an entire day although he was having diarrhea.

I know what you all mean about buying the sposies. It was so hard for me to buy a pack for our trip. I've had dh buy a couple more packs since then while I've been waiting for Dylan's rash to completely clear up. I ran out yesterday so figured I'd pick up another pack while out. I stood in the aisle looking at all the diapers but just couldn't bring myself to buy any. I hope his rash doesn't come back or I don't know what I'll do.

I used Pull-Ups for Ethan and Kellen when they were learning to use the toilet. I bought some cloth pull-up type trainers for Kellen. They are called Antsy Pants. They're pretty cool because the are designed just like Huggies Pull-Ups with snaps down both sides so they can be removed easily in case of a poo accident. There's nothing worse than having to slide a pair of underwear full of poo down a child's legs.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

There are lots of cool cloth versions of Pullups but I just can't justify the cost, especially when Ava stays dry so long during the day now and the Gerber thick underwear are like $10 for a 3 pack.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I wouldn't use them if it was just pee. It's poo accidents for which they are worth it. If you don't have poo accidents, then you don't need them. Maybe it's a boy thing but all of mine had more trouble pooping in the toilet consistently than peeing.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Poo accidents aren't fun. If the poo is solid enough, it's not really a big deal. Otherwise . . . bath tub.

I don't mind used diapers, and I got some used trainers on diaperswappers for a good price.

Rash: I have found tea tree oil under some regular diaper rash ointment to be most effective - I add lavender too if she seems to be in a lot of pain. EO are fine to use with cloth, and the ointment is just to keep the oil against the skin instead of it washing off at first pee - so if you have a CD safe one you like, run with it.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

My kids poo was never solid enough to plop.









I can't use TTO because Ethan had a bad reaction to it. EOs can be irritating on already irritated skin. I may try plain cornstarch. We'll see how it goes. I have some diaper ointment stick that's really good. It cleared up that yeast infection he got after those abx shots the ER doc insisted he get but it didn't seem to help with whatever this other rash was.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

They can, especially if they aren't good quality ones. DH makes sure we keep stocked up on the good ones - our kids haven't had anything but good benefit from them - when the bum is really irritated (or there are open sores) I mix the EO in with the cream. Funny how different things work for different kids though. Disposobles didn't do anything for Norah's rash, other than change it from yeasty to blisters (which she still has, but are clearing up in cloth).

I love ploppable poop.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh yeah, your dh probably has access to some good stuff in his line of work.

It is weird. Ethan got horrible rashes from Pampers, which is why I decided to try cloth again. Everyone is ok in Huggies so, if I ever need sposies for anything, I always get Huggies brand.

Dylan's rash was blistery. IDK what it was. I'm thinking not yeast now based on more descriptions and pics that I saw. It's really hard to tell because they all seem so similar. That's why I was using the cream I have that has an antifungal and an antibacterial in it. That seemed to help when the plain antifungal didn't. And, his wasn't horrible like some of the pics I saw. I can't imagine how a parent let their baby's rash get as bad as some of those pics before doing something about it. Awful!

Dylan has had a few ploppable poops but most are too mushy.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ava gets awful rashes from sposies, it's almost a chemical burn. I feel so bad for her! My mom bought some Seventh Gen dipes one week when she was taking care of her because she thought it would be easier but she had to stop using them because they were burning Ava's bottom. That's another reason why I would hesitate to buy disposable Pullups.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Ava gets awful rashes from sposies, it's almost a chemical burn. I feel so bad for her! My mom bought some Seventh Gen dipes one week when she was taking care of her because she thought it would be easier but she had to stop using them because they were burning Ava's bottom. That's another reason why I would hesitate to buy disposable Pullups.


Yeah, it's best to stay away. They have some nasty chemicals in them. My mom has examined patent applications for the superabsorbent chemicals that they use.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

My old company used to sell Aquakeep which was in the diapers. Oh man that stuff.

That said... I'm a part time cloth diaperer at best so I use both, and don't hesitate with pullups if they seem to help us/make life easier. I still have a full pack from when N was potty learning that I've been holding onto. I don't think Finn will care much that they have princesses on them, do you? LOL!

He peed on the potty today! He took a 3 hour nap today, and after he pointed to the potty (while I was going on the big toilet) and said "Dis?" and signed diaper. So I sat him on. At first he was like, "ehhhhh!" and climbed off. he peed on the floor a bit, so I said, "oops that goes in the potty!" and put him back on, and he peed in the potty! After I took him off, and showed him his pee, he was so proud and said, "Ididid!!"

I love that "ididid!" He says it a lot! He just learned this weekend to go down the stairs on his bottom and when he's done he yells "Ididid!" all excited. So cute!

Huge mental leaps this week. HUGE!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> He peed on the potty today! He took a 3 hour nap today, and after he pointed to the potty (while I was going on the big toilet) and said "Dis?" and signed diaper. So I sat him on. At first he was like, "ehhhhh!" and climbed off. he peed on the floor a bit, so I said, "oops that goes in the potty!" and put him back on, and he peed in the potty! After I took him off, and showed him his pee, he was so proud and said, "Ididid!!"


That's so awesome! I love it when you can see that they are making the mental connection. It cracks me up!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yes, so cool, Carrie! Dylan sits on the potty in the bathroom sometimes but he never does anything in it.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I've only sat Norah on it full clothed while I am peeing just to keep her in one spot, LOL. She is a much more arbitrary pee-er than DS was. I have to be a lot more careful about keeping a diaper under her during changes than I ever did with DS.

Hooray for pees in the potty!

Gabe's habit now, after dinner with my parents upstairs, etc, is to ask to go downstaris and pee (he doesn't want to in the potty they have upstairs, idk why) - and he does! his diapers have barely been wet the last couple days. We are no where near done potty training, but I feel like we are well on our way.

With the time change, the kids are both up by 6:30, I don't like it. I am up already, but I really was enjoying my couple hours to myself to work. oh well. And they are going to bed earlier as well, which is nice, I guess.

a few hours and we will know . . .best get to work!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

With the time change, finn is waking up at 5 am and not nursing back to sleep anymore (probably b/c of night weaning) and Nora is up by 7. woudn't be so bad if they weren't still going to bed at 8. Sigh. I really need them to sleep til after 7 am. This waking up while it's dark is really making me grouchy!

I slept with Finn last night. He sttn again! I'm going to just enjoy this while it lasts, hoping it's permanent!

JJ how are things?

We actually got snow accumulation here! I can't believe it. Theres a good solid 1-2" out there!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I want snow!

DH is going to the Division ball tonight. That's the one that sucks.

It just occurred to me why I had more trouble with poop accidents while my boys were learning to use the toilet. They were still breastfeeding.









I'm up way too early. I've been awake for about an hour. The boys are still asleep, though, so that is nice. I thought the time change would shift Dylan's sleep pattern a little so that he might be ready for bed by 10 pm at the latest but no such luck. He's still up until at least 11 every night. I, on the other hand, am ready to go to bed at 9.









Forgot to say that Trish now has to work on the 15th so we are again without a babysitter for the ball. She is trying to arrange for a friend of hers to babysit but I'm not completely comfortable with that. I don't know the person. She said she'd come over beforehand so we could all meet and she could hang out with the kids for a while but I still don't know.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I'm so excited for the gender announcement! I had the most realistic feeling dream last night. I dreamed that I gave birth to a girl and I was nursing her. It was so realistic because it hurt! Haha! I hope you get the sitter situation worked out MW. I totally understand how you feel. Oh and soft poops trying to potty learn would be hard. Ava is still BM only but she gets constipated easily so her poops are ploppable a lot. I can't even imagine STTN. Ava slept until 8 which is kind of back to her regular schedule. I think she only woke once between 1:30-8. I think.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> a few hours and we will know


I didn't get what this was referring to until Annie said something. I thought you were talking about the sleeping.







I'm a bit slow sometimes but I do eventually catch on.

Can't wait to hear that you are having another baby girl.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Don't feel bad MW! Yesterday when akind1 said something, I thought it was Friday and I was confused that her OB would do a regular ultrasound appt on a Saturday...ha!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

In case you haven't seen on facebook yet, it's a boy! hooray! I feel less bad about Norah being the middle child since she'll be the only girl. He will probably be Theodore Lewis, called Theo, I think, but I'm thinking of him as Teddy bear at the moment.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

YAY!!!
Congratulations on baby boy!!! Exciting exciting news!!!

So happy for you guys!!

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Congratulations! I can't believe I was wrong.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Thanks! and well, someone has to be, right?

Potty training not going so well today. He was pretending to be a dog (why do I not know any girls who go through this phase?) and peed under the dining room table while we were at the ultrasound. Then he backed up to me and said "wipe clean" not a good sign. and then peed on the floor before I could get him to the potty. So, it's a setback, sort of. But at least he realized he was dirty? I am very tired.

JJ: 1st, where are you?? how is Tenley doing? seems like it's been a while since we've heard from you.

Now I want to go register for stuff. For the coupons and free things. But what to register for? . . .


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

OMG. Nora pretends to be a cat. Smh. She undresses completely (b/c cats don't wear clothes, mama) and crawls around meowing, and demands food/water in bowls. It's redic! I indulge her a bit, but then I usually ask her to at least wear panties, b/c that much bare bottom just....idk. Makes me laugh and feel uncomfortable at the same time!









I'm sending you some potty training hugs, b/c it's a really frustrating time. It's one step fwd, two steps back process, that can be so maddening.

He'll get it! When, how, who knows. But just keep at it! Praise the successes and don't fret over the accidents and it'll click!

So. AF is late by about a day, usually I start on CD27 and now it's the end of CD28 and nothing. Barely a cramp. Tested - negative. So...just waiting. Probably stress, right?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Register for what you'll buy. I put bath soaps, diapers, cream, pumping supplies, bottles, cups, changing pad cover, maxi pads, bras, etc. It's like a big shopping list. Not a gift list. You get I think 10% off at target and 20% off at BRU.
Are you needing anything even for Norah or anything? Put their stuff on it too!!
Also put your due date a few weeks early so you get your coupon sooner. Then you can get your shopping done before baby actually comes.

Ooh, gross story only you guys will appreciate. Again Finn asked to sit on the potty. He says "dis?" And signs diaper. So I put him on and let him sit...nothing. he signs all done, so no big deal. I pick him up and hold him...and he kinda slides down my arm. Omg. I turn to look. He frigging pooped but it never dropped into the potty seat! Poop all over my arm and up his back and all on his bottom. Ugh! Now I know better and will CHECK before I pick him up!! Lol!!

But dude!! Wtf!? Poop on the potty!?? Who is this baby!?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Ooh, gross story only you guys will appreciate. Again Finn asked to sit on the potty. He says "dis?" And signs diaper. So I put him on and let him sit...nothing. he signs all done, so no big deal. I pick him up and hold him...and he kinda slides down my arm. Omg. I turn to look. He frigging pooped but it never dropped into the potty seat! Poop all over my arm and up his back and all on his bottom. Ugh! Now I know better and will CHECK before I pick him up!! Lol!!
> But dude!! Wtf!? Poop on the potty!?? Who is this baby!?
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


Ha! Except for the gross part, that is really cool. Dylan would never sit on the toilet like that. He gets very upset if I try to sit him on it naked.

I had a lot more to say but I've lost it all. My mind is blank.







Maybe it will come back.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I remembered. I had a cool conversation with the dental hygienist toda6+y. Something came up about me still nursing Dylan and she said something about hoping she could breastfeed when she had babies. I told her that it works more than it doesn't. It's supposed to. If it didn't, we wouldn't be here. She said something about her sister trying but not succeeding and how she didn't want that to happen to her. I told her to go to LLL meetings. Seek out support from women who have done it. That's the best thing you can do. It was really cool to have some random person understand why I was uncomfortable about leaving Dylan for 6+ hours being an hour and a half away. She also said, "Good for you!" when I told her about the military docs assuming I would have a repeat c-section with Ethan and me telling them that I would not. It's always so cool to randomly run into people who think the same. I hope I helped to reinforce her ideas and position on such things.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

That's awesome!! I'm sure you made a difference. These conversations stick with ppl.

It's something I miss actually abut chatting with clients at the spa.

Getting antsy to start my doula training. Still can't figure out childcare tho. :-(

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I'm still so excited about baby Teddy! That nickname seems to suit him more than Theo but it's your baby sooooo...I should keep my opinions to myself unless asked!









Baby_Cakes, that's so freaking cool! Ava did something similar yesterday. She sat on her little potty to poop, she pooped and we took it to the bathroom to dump it out. Then I went in the kitchen to make my coffee and she followed me in there and proceeded to poop on the kitchen floor.







I was like WTH? She had JUST pooped!

MW, I love it when I run into people like that out in the regular world. I always hope that when they end up having their own kids, I will have planted a seed, you know?

Considering going up to the USMC Museum on Saturday for the Birthday. They are having cake, a special map class for kids and a marching band from a visiting high school. Sounds like fun! The two hr drive each way doesn't sound like fun but oh well. I asked DH if he wants to do it and he's thinking about it. If we don't, I'll just have the kids make a cake for him.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I agree, Teddy is so much more you guys than Theo!! But who am I to say??
In the US pic, he looks like Gabe I think!!

A family member of mine just announced on fb she is having a boy. I wish it were appropriate to spam people with circ information. It's just not tho, it's it?

That 2 hour each way drive doesn't sound fun, but the rest sure does. I missed so much, whose birthday?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Marine Corps birthday is on Saturday. Therefore anyone who has ever been a Marine also celebrates their "birthday". My DH is a Marine so I always try to celebrate even though we've never made it to a ball yet. The museum is close to IKEA though so I could probably manage to get us by there as well so win/win for me!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Oh - huge - we nightweaned! Right before the storm. Finn is officially night weaned and is actually SLEEPING at night! Took 4 nights of him sleeping with Chris...and then we moved in with my in laws. Chris slept with him the first night there, but wrecked his back b/c the bed was so small and stiff. So I took him the next night and dude, he slept 7 HOURS w/o even needing help resettling!! I don't think I've ever experienced that! The next night I had him again, and he woke I think once, but all I had to do was rub his back. Amazing. THANK YOU DR JAY GORDON! I set up a twin mattress on the floor next to my bed and started him out there last night. He did wake up and I brought him to bed, but all I had to do was lay him down. It's crazy exciting and I'm so happy it was such a smooth process.


Yayyy! Oh sleep! That must feel amazing!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Glad you had a good time at the wedding! I have one to go to next month, I'm looking forward to it. except, I need shoes. Unless I really want to be pregnant in heels?


I didn't mind the heels during pregnancy! Except once my feet started swelling, and that was just a fit issue, not a height issue. lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> akind1, I'd probably be inclined to leave him naked if he's not turning blue or shivering. Ava tolerates a lot cooler temps than I do so if she's asking to take her clothes off or she refuses to put anything on, I just leave her alone. I kept her naked from the bottom down for a couple of weeks and now she has started telling me most of the times when she needs to pee even if she has a diaper on. So maybe just give him a bit more time naked? Do you have a little potty seat out in the main living area so he has access when he needs to go w/out needing help from you guys?


Me too. We've been working on the potty more around here, and it's just easier to have her naked or partly naked. I trust she'll tell me if she's cold. She seems to like being naked, and it's not hurting her so... But then again, we don't have trouble getting her dressed again when she does need to be wearing clothes, so it's a bit different.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Yay for sleeping, Carrie. Dylan has been sleeping longer, too. I think he's been going at least 5 hours in the first stretch before waking to nurse. After that first wake up, he stirs a lot more often but that 5 hours feels like heaven. I can't rub his back to resettle him. He gets mad and pushes my hand away.


Haha, Ten has been asserting herself at night too. At night when I nurse her, I give her a few minutes, and then reach in and unlatch her. Normally she just unlatches, rolls over and goes back to sleep. Lately she's been reaching up and grabbing and pulling my hands away, so that I can't unlatch her. She'll literally start hitting me to stop.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> It is weird. Ethan got horrible rashes from Pampers, which is why I decided to try cloth again. Everyone is ok in Huggies so, if I ever need sposies for anything, I always get Huggies brand.
> Dylan's rash was blistery.


Tenley has a rash right now but I'm pretty sure it's ammonia burn  I'm currently doing a vinegar wash and 10,000 rinses. I'm hopeful.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> That said... I'm a part time cloth diaperer at best so I use both, and don't hesitate with pullups if they seem to help us/make life easier. I still have a full pack from when N was potty learning that I've been holding onto. I don't think Finn will care much that they have princesses on them, do you? LOL!
> 
> ...


Yeah, we use sposies here too on occasion, though I'm cheap, so I try not to use any more than i have to. But thankfully, she doesn't seem to have a problem with them. She seemed to a bit when she was little, but not lately. Pampers are my favorite 

Ooooh potty! And I -looooove- that "ididid"! Ten has been doing a similar, but usually she hasn't actually peed. lol.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> So. AF is late by about a day, usually I start on CD27 and now it's the end of CD28 and nothing. Barely a cramp. Tested - negative. So...just waiting. Probably stress, right?


Dun dun dun! Did I miss an update on this? I'm so far behind, I didn't even check what day it was posted. Now I'm thinking probably today. lol.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Ooh, gross story only you guys will appreciate. Again Finn asked to sit on the potty. He says "dis?" And signs diaper. So I put him on and let him sit...nothing. he signs all done, so no big deal. I pick him up and hold him...and he kinda slides down my arm. Omg. I turn to look. He frigging pooped but it never dropped into the potty seat! Poop all over my arm and up his back and all on his bottom. Ugh! Now I know better and will CHECK before I pick him up!! Lol!!


OMG Now I feel better! lol. Tenley was diaper free today, and she had been acting like she was going to potty, but wouldn't actually stay on the potty. So I went into her room to grab a diaper. As I was in there folding an insert, I just got one of those -feelings-. I popped my head back out into the living room, there was poop on the floor, Tenley was climbing on the dogs bed (so it was covered in poop too), and the dog was franticly following behind her licking up poop from the floor. I just about vomited. Thankfully, for like the first time eve, I ordered him into his crate, and he went, first time, without me having to beg and plead. There was poop -everywhere-. Since she started pooping, she'd moved like 6 feet, so it was spread all over, and all over her legs and feet, and her hands from crawling in it. ugh. I put an inch of water in the bathtub and popped her in there while I hand mopped the floor. I hope I don't have to repeat that experience again! She's pooped on the floor before, but I've always noticed immediately, so it was just one plop, not spread.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> A family member of mine just announced on fb she is having a boy. I wish it were appropriate to spam people with circ information. It's just not tho, it's it?


I wish! lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Marine Corps birthday is on Saturday. Therefore anyone who has ever been a Marine also celebrates their "birthday". My DH is a Marine so I always try to celebrate even though we've never made it to a ball yet. The museum is close to IKEA though so I could probably manage to get us by there as well so win/win for me!


Ikea would seal the deal for me! Ours opens Nov 28th 

Kat! Yay Boy! I like your thinking about it being only girl in the middle.

So, main reason I haven't been on-- to make a very long story short-- got a call from my work, they expected me back this week. Second to that- they don't want to take me back part time (I was full time before). As per union though, they HAVE to. They disagree. This could be a huge effing mess, and I'm trying to decide if I want to fight it. I don't want to fight it, and then have to go back to a hostile work environment. On the other hand-- I make probably $3 more an hour there than I would anywhere else. And I -like- my job. It's been a HUGE stressor trying to decide if I give up and go back full time like they want, or if I keep fighting, or if I just quit, and if I quit, where else do I go, etc etc. I wish I could afford to just stay home period, but I can't, not really. I need income for at least a couple months so we can build our savings back up again, and finish some of the basement. I'm also freaking out about the idea of going back so much earlier than I thought (I thought I had until January). I don't feel ready to leave her (though will I ever, really?) and I'm nervous about her sleep, and not having milk during the day. The last couple times I tried to pump, I couldn't get anything. Just drops. Once I got like an ounce, but it took almost 30 minutes. I used to be able to pump when she was younger, but then I didn't pump at all for like 5 months. Oops.

Tenley is growing like crazy. She's still not having a lot of interest in walking, but mentally, she's just having so many leaps and bounds it's crazy. She's babbling so much lately. She's 'reading' by herself, and playing on her own. If I'm doing something she doesn't like, she'll crawl into her room and start playing with her books or something.

She's dry at nights now probably 3/4 nights. Still only pottying 2-3 times a day, but the nights have me blown away.

She's waking up less at night. Not a ton less, but it's progress. And she's not having the every 20-30 minute wakeups for the first two hours of the night either, which is huge. She's starting out the night in her bed, and then coming into bed with us as soon as I go to bed. It's SO nice to finally feel comfortable with her in the bed. I miss my space, but at least I'm not in pain anymore.

Have a consult tomorrow with a pediatric specialist we were referred to, to talk about our vaccine choices. I'm not really sure why I'm going, since my choice is to give none of the vaxes, and it was DH who was interested--- and he didn't book it off work. argh. But our current doc isn't comfortable continuing to see us if we don't at least get this consult (though really, she wants to drop us if we don't give dtap).

Having trouble coming up with gift ideas for Tenley's birthday and christmas. What do you guys find are the go-to toys from the 1-2 year old range. It sucks having the two gift giving opportunities being less than a month apart. DH and I want to make her a play kitchen, but I'm getting worried we won't get time to do it in time.

Ok, really should finish up before she wakes up again. Hopefully I'll stay caught up this time!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: so THIS is the HR stuff you have been fretting about on FB! I wondered . . . IDK - IF you have childcare you trust for Ten, I would go back. It sucks to be going back during the holiday season though. Milk wise, I think she'll be fine, if anything, she'll reverse cycle. Which is tough, but doable. How is she doing on solids? (is she doing any solids?)

Vaxes . . . Ugh. well, you know we don't do any. But if my ped were wanting to drop me for something like that, I'd drop the ped. Not worth it, and shows that the ped would rather your child, should she come down with pertussis (bc really that's the concern, not diptheria or tetanus) she'd rather you receive no care or urgent care than a regular pediatrician. Which is ridiculous. My personal thinking with pertussis - and I talked to our pediatrician about it, should baby be exposed and then come down with it - is that in MOST cases, it makes babies miserable, like any illness you need to make sure they stay hydrated, fed, and sleep well, and of course no parent likes to see their baby ill. She wanted to make sure we understood what to do in the event the baby got sick, and that we could handle it. And what to look out for as signs we needed to see her or go to the hospital. That, to me, is responsible doctoring. I LOVE our pediatrician. We may not do wbv - it's more because I plain forget about them - I actually like the doc, and she's great to talk to - but I really like knowing I have somewhere to take the kids that I trust the advice I'm given and that we won't be looked at as freaks or lectured to death each time we go.

Glad sleep has gotten better too!

Gift ideas: We are going will play food for her play kitchen and doll (and doll things). I know this is very gender biased, but I think it is stuff she will like. FWIW, DS is getting a doll too. He likes playing with them in church nursery, and will be good as we talk through, and experience, new baby stuff (and this way he won't take Norah's dolly). Does she like to stand and push things? IKEA has a great push cart, but I'm sure other stores do too - it's a toy that will last for a while. Play silks are big too - so much you can do with them, and they are gorgeous. If she likes to color or anything like that, then maybe some melissa and doug crayons and the really big floor drawing pad?

Poop and the potty . . . hasn't happened really here yet. One thing at a time. I am the only one comfortable with Gabe being naked so much. Oh well. It's working, I think. though he will be in disposable diapers this weekend, since we will be in Charlotte (IKEA, Concord Mills Mall, and then a football game Sunday! go Broncos!) And Norah will be with MIL and FIL all weekend. I wish them well  She's been STTN pretty much, so I think that part will be ok. It's whether or not they can keep up with her sneaky mischeviousness and on the go all the time. She doesn't sit still. Ever.

My dad loves that we are naming the baby Theodore. I wasn't sure, because he has always made plain that he is NOT Theodore, but I think he likes the idea of a namesake. We will see what baby gets called once born - Theo or Teddy . . . I tell you, he is an active thing. my placenta is high, on the top wall of my uterus, that may be why I can feel him so well. Norah was Anterior, Gabe was Posterior.

Annie, MW: my dad is/was a Marine, but we never celebrated the birthday. Dad's just not that wrapped up into his identity as a Marine. I mean, they went to balls, and would still go if there was a local one, because they enjoy them, for the most part, but we never displayed his officer sword, or had the MC flag hanging in the front yard, or MC themed scrapbooks . . . I really appreciated that he could separate from his work. BUT. Any excuse for cake, right?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ummmm ladies? It's November and we're still in the October thread! Haha! I'm on my Nook so can't copy and paste. Can someone start a new thread?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Ummmm ladies? It's November and we're still in the October thread! Haha! I'm on my Nook so can't copy and paste. Can someone start a new thread?


hahahahaha! DONE! http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1367758/november-2012-rockstar-mamas


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh, oops. Now there are two again.

Carrie ~ You must have posted this while I was setting up the thread. I'll ask to have mine deleted (again).


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Oh, oops. Now there are two again.
> Carrie ~ You must have posted this while I was setting up the thread. I'll ask to have mine deleted (again).


Whoops! Sorry!!


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