# Anyone have a REALLY smart 16 mo?



## SleepyMamaBear (Jun 5, 2005)

I first want to start this off by saying i appologize to any one that finds this oofensive in any way, i really dont intend to hurt anyones feelings.

my dd Addy is 16 months old, or will be on the 15th, and is super smart. she knows(i mean KNOWS) and says over 175 words, and knows(again, KNOWS) and can sign over 50 signs, and she learns at least a word a day, and a sign or two a week. she is starting to speak in sentences and knows the difference between one and two, and can say the alphabet up to f. she can identify yellow and red and blue and green.

well i cant get enough of her amazing brain and i love feeding it with info, as much as she loves learning. so it works out wonderfully!








lately i have been getting negative comments online (not this site) from other moms when i talk about her. almost as if they are trying to make me feel badly for wanting to tell the world just how freakin great i think she is!
i am getting SO sick of being made to feel badly for having a natural momma feeling and wanting to spread the word of her awesomeness.
i never make negative comments about other moms babies, EVER. its just not in me. and i always try to say nice things about their children, and i really do get excited about their kids progress, and let them know it. but still i get some pretty snarky comments about how i shouldnt brag when other parents dont have such advanced kids.
i really dont see it as braggin, just sharing her progress, just like the rest of the mommies are doing, and yet, i still feel ganged up on.
anyone else ever get that?
i hate to sound like such a whiney boohoo brat, but its really bothering me.
damn i must be ready to start my period!!! i am so hormonal


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## Still_Snarky (Dec 23, 2004)

In the Special Needs Parenting forum there's some threads about gifted children. You might check it out!


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## CrazyCatLady (Aug 17, 2004)

I won't get into the details of it. But yes, my 14 month old is _way_ too smart for her age and she's been this way since almost the beginning. I don't know what to tell you about the online people. I have just avoided mentioning things about my dd that I know will get those kinds of responses. But I shouldn't have to do that, I'm just a wimp who doesn't like bothering with crabby people. But my relatives really get on my nerves. I'll share some latest progress on Zayla and when it's something impressive, they always accuse me and my husband of making it up!







: Anyways, no words of wisdom from me but I just wanted to say that I do understand. Congrats on your daughter and all of her smarts. And good luck since I've learned the hard way the smart can mean really naughty sometimes.


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## ameliabedelia (Sep 24, 2002)

Well, as the mother of a child who was developmentally a little slower, it does hurt when I hear other parents s about sharing how advanced their children are. I would never say anything to anyone to make them feel bad, and I can certainly understand you wanting to share the world about your dd's awesomeness. But you should be aware that hearing those things is hurtful to other parents whose children are slower...especially at such young ages where not every child's unique gifts and talents are apparant yet. Having a child who is a little slower is hard enough, but it is even harder to hear other parents bragging about how advanced their kids are. May I gently suggest that you keep your sharing to grandparents, friends w/o children the exact same age, neighbors, etc, people who know you and know your dd and will be proud of her.

I have one of each. DD1 was/is behind/slower, while dd2 is advanced so I know what it is like to be on both ends of the spectrum.

We are all in this parenting journey together and a little sensitivity on everyone's part helps everyone be supported. It is always good to look at things from someone else's viewpoint.


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## GeezerMom (Apr 7, 2005)

Mind another wrinkle?

I was like your dd, extraordinarily verbal as a toddler (I walked early, too). My parents were delighted, and soon loaded me down with pressure and expectations. So much so that when my genuine interests started coming out (at around age 8) they paid no attention since my talents didn't conform with their notions of who their gifted daughter "should" be. I wasted a LOT of years waging that war within myself, becoming deeply depressed as a result, and accomplishing nothing at all while I struggled to accept who I am.

Beware of those competitive parenting urges - we all have them, and gifted kids are even better at picking up on and internalizing parental expectations.


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## Jster (Apr 22, 2003)

Wanted to add...being a parent of a gifted kid can be fun...but the challenges pile up as well! My dd1 wasn't quite as fast as your girl







but she was pretty amazing. And still she is at 4. But now her giftedness becomes more of a challenge for me...like when she complained I ate all the cookies, and I said she had at least one because her sister ate one and showed it to me. She returns by saying, but mom, "Just because you know sister ate a cookie doesn't mean I did. You don't really know that, you can't prove it." So watch out, mama!

And in regards to a gifted child, I really agree with Geezermom as well...make sure you appreciate her gifts without expecting certain performance. I was also "gifted" as a child (to me, that means articulate and good at school...never been as good social, perhaps even behind in that area







). All through school, unless I got straight A's mom asked, what went wrong :irk and even now that I'm in law school, and tell her I got a 3.5, and she says, that's a B right? Why didn't you get an A? So don't fall down that hill, if you can avoid it, it really causes a lot of pain!

I also have the perspective of having a second child who isn't quite so verbally acute. In fact, she's been kinda slow in that department. But she's brilliant otherwise, and I appreciate her gifts. It's been hard to get used to, though, after dd1. And I finally believed my pediatrician who said, "Language is all about accepting another person's system. Perhaps your daughter just disagrees." So I had a very "agreeable" dd1 and a somewhat "disagreeable" dd2 who doesn't particularly like this whole language thing. And either is okay.

HTHs!


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## Monkeyfeet (Feb 5, 2005)

*Anyone have a REALLY smart 16 mo?*

Truthfully, aren't they all in their own special, unique, wonderful ways?


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## Alkenny (May 4, 2004)

I just wanted to add that just because she's this gifted at a young age doesn't mean it will continue niether. My DD was VERY advanced when she was littler (speaking in full sentences/carrying on conversations by 1, potty learned by 18 months, reading before she was 3) but over the years she's tapered off.

She's in 7th grade, still gets mostly straight A's, but is more on the "average" spectrum now.

As for you bragging, I don't blame you for being excited and wanting to shout to the world how bright she is, but I can also understand the flip side.


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Monkeyfeet*
*Anyone have a REALLY smart 16 mo?*

Truthfully, aren't they all in their own special, unique, wonderful ways?

Yes, Yes, they are







I think it's great your child is so expressive about what they understand. Which is what I personally think it is.

MY children have never been really overly talkative to the point of us understanding everything, but I know they understand ALOT. Ds of course, follows his sister and did things a little earlier than she did. I know everyone has a different IQ, and different degrees of intellect, but really, we all have different gifts.I don't think by measuring one aspect of a child you can really grasp alll that.

So, yes, I do have a really smart 16 month old, but not according to your standards.


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## TortelliniMama (Mar 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jster*
And I finally believed my pediatrician who said, "Language is all about accepting another person's system. Perhaps your daughter just disagrees."

Wow, what a great way to look at it!









Ds isn't 16 months old any more, but he's pretty much the most brilliant, wonderful child in the world. Aren't they all?


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## G&B'sMama (Mar 25, 2005)

If people are letting you know that you are making them feel uncomfortable (even though you are not trying to) it is probably a good idea to ease up a bit. When my DD was that age she was extremely verbal, very much like your DD. I shared my excitement with family and friends who didn't have kids and complete strangers- but I held back a bit at playgroups and with my mom's group where the kids were the same age. It took some time but I realized that because my kid was so verbal it either made the other moms feel insecure that something was wrong with their child because he or she wasn't at the same level, or it made them feel overly competitive. I was part of those groups for support because we were parenting kids the same age and making other people feel worried, although indirectly, or overly competitive was really against the whole point of participating.

Plus, I know how it feels to be on the other side. While my DD is verbal and intellectually smart, she is very slow to develop physically. When she was three she even had to spend time in physical therapy to learn how to eat with a fork, climb stairs, run, and jump. It was always extremely painful to me to listen to a friend with a same age child (only 1 month older) talk about how her kid hopped on a bicycle without training wheels and rode it around the driveway, or how she jumped in the swimming pool and swam to the other side. It's not that I wasn't happy for my friend who kid was obviously athletically gifted- but it was just a painful reminder of things that my DD will never be able to do, or at least not without a lot of struggle. Also, it would be one thing to mention it and move on, but she always talked about it. At times it really felt like she was rubbing it in my face. As my friend, I don't think she was, but you know every time she brought it up it really tapped into some of my deepest fears as a parent.


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

this is just echoing the general sentiment but i wanted to add that there's a fine line between being very proud of your child and bragging. ds is also intellectually and verbally extremely advanced (but physically very behind) and while i was sharing that with all my mommy friends at first, i decided to just stick to sharing with mommy friends of gifted children. and really...i don't share at all anymore because who cares really! i don't mean that in a mean way just that all it really concerns are you and your child...most other moms don't really care about your child, kwim! they adore their own child and only have eyes, so to speak, for what their child has to offer! i know i feel slighted when other moms discuss their child's physical prowess so i keep ds's cognitive abilites to myself! like another pp said, every child is gifted and unique in his or her own way!!


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## TurboClaudia (Nov 18, 2003)

addysmama:







although i agree with some of the posters that it might be hard to hear about someone else's "gifted" or "advanced" child doing things that their child is not yet doing at that same age, i think it is perfectly within your right to be proud of your little girl and her rapidly expanding skills.







you love her, she loves you, you love offering her new skills, she loves learning them. i have only met you briefly, but you are one laid-back mama, and i can't really imagine you would pressure your daughter to fit into any sort of mold, academic or otherwise.

and as for feeling bad about others extolling the genius of their children, i feel bad when i hear about mamas being able to exclusively breastfeed their babies until a year old or beyond. i was not able to do so, not for lack or trying or lack of expertise in my community. i am at peace with our choices, and our son is a happy, still nursing once a day, thriving, genius-child of 17 months, but i still get a little jealous hearing about other babies who breastfeed more. that is what i liken the sensitivity feeling to.

~claudia


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## LeosMama (Sep 6, 2005)

Quote:

especially at such young ages where not every child's unique gifts and talents are apparant yet
My 21 mo old really doesn't speak yet at all. He chooses not to. Einstein also was a late bloomer on many scales.

I think it's amazing and wonderful that your DD is so bright and can speak so well and understand so many advanced concepts. But children develope at different rates and just b/c she's advanced in these areas now, doesn't mean she will stay that way forever. I'm really not trying to bring you down or dismiss her gifts as it may very well be that she turns out to be a simultaneous translator or something equally challenging.

There are many kinds of talents and gifts. My ds, though he cannot speak, is very mechanical and understands the uses of most of dh's tools. He understands how to help me sew with my basic machine. He can disassemble anything that has loosened screws and open any screw top bottle (anything loose enough for him to turn). He knows how to use ratchets and the cordless drill (as in, he can screw things together and drill holes). He also has been able to kick balls ever since learning to walk and run. He climbs the 15 foot climbing wall at the park without help, just a spotter. He knows how to assemble his legos and understands how puzzles go together, he has a great aptitude for spatial reasoning.

But he cannot speak, and doesn't sign anything spontaneously, only with prompting. I doubt my slow son is less gifted than your more advanced daughter. The reason I resent people bragging about this stuff is that our culture tends to see verbal skills and those related to verbal development as being the benchmark of intelligence and creative and spatial skills (among many others) are not considered as important and indicative of relative intelligence.

I think intelligence is situational. An engineer in an English lit publishing firm is a pretty dumb person, by and large. A poet in a chemistry lab is pretty lame, by and large. But each of these talents and skill sets represents a different world view and pattern of brain function. You cannot compare them and say that one is gifted and the other less so.

I'm sorry, now I'm ganging up on you too. I don't mean to. I think it's fine to talk about how advanced and bright your kid is. If you want people to be less defensive, you can balance your comments with the progress she makes in other areas that is more 'normal'. If you are always bragging about her, it does make people feel inferior and wonder if their kids are okay or feel hurt that theirs are 'slow'. Nobody wants a 'slow' (read 'average') kid. That hurts. There's nothing you can do to change that fact. But you can be sensitive to it.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

I would be hesitant to label such a young child as gifted, though you certainly have every right to be proud! Many children slow down as they get old. My dd was very much like yours at the same age, but now at four, she is in a much more normal range (though still at the high end of normal).

Quote:

I have one of each. DD1 was/is behind/slower, while dd2 is advanced so I know what it is like to be on both ends of the spectrum.
Me, too. Dd1 was also so bright and advanced and did everything early, and dd2 has severe brain damage. Though she's still a bright baby


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## SleepyMamaBear (Jun 5, 2005)

f course childrens development slows down as they age, geez if it didnt can you image where we would all be?








i too was a very gifted child. was reading before three, having full conversations with adults by 2 and by kindergarten was doing addition and subtraction as well as writing short stories when other kids were just learning to write their names. and i too got alot of pressure on me, from my parents, from my teachers, from everyone i came in contact with. hell, lets just say the word potential and i dont get along very well because of school.
and you know Claudia, you are way right, i am too damn laid back to even think of putting pressure on her. its just not our way.
we plan on home/unschooling, and my main worry is being able to keep up with her!
i think all of us mamas have every right to be proud of our children and want to express it to others, and EVERY child has talents and skills, every singl one. not all children are skilled at language, not all skilled at motor development, not all are skilled at engineering feats (btw, WOW about the child who is into dads tools, thats so awesome!) but as moms i think we all have a right to scream it to the world at the top of our lungs just how great our kids are.
Addy didnt walk unassisted until she was almost 14 months old. she didnt crawl until she was nine months old. she is just now learning to jump, but loves to dance, and boogy to the beat. so i know what its like to have an average, to slightly below average child in a ertain field of development. but that doesnt make me any less proud of her accomplishments, nor does it make me resent other moms who mentioned their early crawlers/walkers/jumpers. etc.
you know, i was completely unable to breastfeed. i had a reduction 6 years ago, and though she nursed at my breast for the first two months for comfort, as soon as she figured out that nothing was coming out she was DONE. and it saddens me SO much to know i was unable to breastfeed my daughter, that my childs sustenance for life didnt come from my body. so i know what its like to be envious of other moms that have nuring toddlers, but i dont bash them for it! i congradulate them on their accomplushment, on how lucky they are to have a normal functioning body that is able to do the amazing job of feeding their child.
it might seem awefully narrow of me, but really i cannot see why other moms get upset with me for wanting to share Addys accomplishments, when they too share their childs, just because she is more advanced in the language department. its not fair. really it isnt.


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## SleepyMamaBear (Jun 5, 2005)

just metnioning i am a typo queen when i am trying to type fast while she is taking her naps. no time to go back and fix them tho!


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## LeosMama (Sep 6, 2005)

This is a very eloquent reply. Thank you for it. Maybe other moms need to have more confidence in their own kids' diverse abilities and talents.


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## Vicitoria (Dec 17, 2004)

I say right on for you and your child and the special gifts you have. Good thing there is the internet to find others like to you share with. Accent the positive, eliminate the negative. If someone doesn't want to listen, don't talk to them. Save your energy.


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## Sydnee (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AddysMama*
f course childrens development slows down as they age, geez if it didnt can you image where we would all be?








i too was a very gifted child. was reading before three, having full conversations with adults by 2 and by kindergarten was doing addition and subtraction as well as writing short stories when other kids were just learning to write their names. and i too got alot of pressure on me, from my parents, from my teachers, from everyone i came in contact with. hell, lets just say the word potential and i dont get along very well because of school.
and you know Claudia, you are way right, i am too damn laid back to even think of putting pressure on her. its just not our way.
we plan on home/unschooling, and my main worry is being able to keep up with her!
i think all of us mamas have every right to be proud of our children and want to express it to others, and EVERY child has talents and skills, every singl one. not all children are skilled at language, not all skilled at motor development, not all are skilled at engineering feats (btw, WOW about the child who is into dads tools, thats so awesome!) but as moms i think we all have a right to scream it to the world at the top of our lungs just how great our kids are.
Addy didnt walk unassisted until she was almost 14 months old. she didnt crawl until she was nine months old. she is just now learning to jump, but loves to dance, and boogy to the beat. so i know what its like to have an average, to slightly below average child in a ertain field of development. but that doesnt make me any less proud of her accomplishments, nor does it make me resent other moms who mentioned their early crawlers/walkers/jumpers. etc.
you know, i was completely unable to breastfeed. i had a reduction 6 years ago, and though she nursed at my breast for the first two months for comfort, as soon as she figured out that nothing was coming out she was DONE. and it saddens me SO much to know i was unable to breastfeed my daughter, that my childs sustenance for life didnt come from my body. so i know what its like to be envious of other moms that have nuring toddlers, but i dont bash them for it! i congradulate them on their accomplushment, on how lucky they are to have a normal functioning body that is able to do the amazing job of feeding their child.
it might seem awefully narrow of me, but really i cannot see why other moms get upset with me for wanting to share Addys accomplishments, when they too share their childs, just because she is more advanced in the language department. its not fair. really it isnt.

VERY well said, mama!







I guess I don't see why you sharing your excitement should offend anyone else. maybe they need to step back and take a look as to why they might be offended? Is it embarrassing for THEM?? Because our children certainly don't care!!!


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## jaam (Sep 29, 2004)

I'll add a tiny little bit as a mom of an 18 month old who has been a little behind her peers developmentally in both language and motor skills. It's obviously HARD to hear about other kids who are developmental superstars when yours is struggling with the basic stuff. But I don't take offense. I try as hard as I can to be happy for the parents of those children because I *do* believe they have a right to share their joy. Just as you be happy for a mother who is excited about her child that finally walked at 2, you should be happy with the mother who is excited about her kid who walked at 8 months. My $0.02.


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## Kincaid (Feb 12, 2004)

Just from reading your post, I would think that what people are reacting badly to are your superlatives which are based on comparsion and exclusivity. You don't just talk about your child's love of learning... that would be something few would react badly to. Rather, some of your wording uses language that compares and places your child "above" and "beyond".

I think that's the difference - celebrating your child is great and most would not chafe at that. However, doing so in a way where you are clearly comparing skill sets and placing your child "above" - that is distasteful to some readers I would bet.


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## Mommay (Jul 29, 2004)

Just my 2 cents. I agree with pp who think a more mellow approach is better. For the same reason we don't talk about our own assets at length. People are easily annoyed if one goes on about one's good looks, good fortune, intelligence, etc. It also puts the focus on external milestones instead of on the internal experiences of the child, which, as others point out, may prod others to make comparisons too, which isn't always fun. Lastly, I have learned to take deep joy in my ds' accomplishments without feeling I need the validation of others. I think I did in the beginning because I was not always sure of how I was doing. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with taking pride in your child. She sounds brilliant.


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## lizabird (Jan 19, 2004)

Personally, I think my DS is pretty darn smart. He is very polite and clever, and I think he has developed many wonderful social skills without much help at all. Okay, so he's 24 months old and not speaking in structurally complete sentences yet, but he recites his favorite stories, or at least the gist of them, and laughs at his own jokes. Anyway, I think it's a wonderful thing to have an outlet to share your pride and joy about your child, and sometimes perhaps it's a fine line between sharing your joys and bragging. And different people will interpret the same sharing of joy in different ways. It's especially difficult to properly express your own feeling in on-line forums/writing/emails/etc., just because people can't see your expressions or hear your tone of voice.

Oh, that sounds like random babble. I am really tired right now, but thought I'd add my 2-cents. Congratulations on such a smart kiddo - very cool!


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## mommycaroline (Mar 2, 2004)

My DD was far ahead of her peers, and still is. She's 4 and has been reading for almost 2 years now. I think she's reading on a fourth grade level. At first, it was strange. A 2 year old reading. Now, I take it for granted. She just DOES, you know? And, occasionally, I'll be reminded that her talents are somewhat unique. Like when I left her in a class the other day and the teacher was flabberghasted. "I tutor fourth graders that don't read as well as she does!" over and over "She's BRILLIANT, you know..." Yes, I know. She's MY daughter.

But, I try to treat her the way she should be treated. Like a kid. We're starting to homeschool, and I realize that there's no way I can use any curriculum. She's just too all over the place. So, I have to pay close attention to where she is right now. And, follow her. She's already been leading me anyway, so I just have to keep on following.









My son is 15 months, and nowhere near where she was at that age. And, that's okay too. He doesn't have any words yet, but he's got curly red hair! That counts, right?







He's pretty magnificent in his own right. Just not verbal yet. He will be one day, that much I know for sure. And, he may surpass my DD one day too. Although, I think the likelihood is low, as I've read research that shows that first children generally have higher IQ's, coming from a first child who's severely protective of her higher IQ than her own brothers!

No matter what, though, they're terrific. And, every kid is terrific. I know it's hard not to shout from the rooftops how fabulous your child is, but it gets easier. But, most people think their kids are pretty fabulous too. As long as you don't get into a competition about whose kid is the smartest, the best, the most advanced, it's all good.


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

I don't see why it would make anyone feel bad about our own children just because we see a child who is amazingly advanced.

I met a little girl at the park who at seventeen months old toddled over to her mother and said something like "mother, I'm bored, I need some entertainment". Um, she is barely two and a half weeks older than my dd, who at the time was saying things like "mama, need wawa".

I was thrilled to meet such a little girl-- just as I am thrilled to meet a little kid with a cute smile or a sweet way of toddling or who is crawling at five months or who is working at overcoming a challenging disability or anything that makes them unusual or special. Her mother seemed so relieved to meet someone who was just happy to see an interesting different child.

It's not a competition. It is fun to share our children's accomplishments.


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## crunchyconmomma (Feb 6, 2003)

i understand all of it, and mama all i can say is....awwww that is sooo FREAKIN' neat! how much fun for you to have such a wonder babe.

and i also say, SCREW the idiots who are so caught up with what's wrong with humankind that they can't be excited for you.

have fun with your baby, but look out for when she starts to surpass you...uh oh!


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## ebethmom (Jan 29, 2002)

Call me odd, but I love hearing about other people's truly amazing kids. I happen to think that both of my kids are pretty sharp, but they are on the normal side of smart.

My daughter is 16 months old, and on target for all of her developmental progress. She delights me with her new discoveries. I don't feel the need to compare her to anyone else's child. But I still love to hear about what thrills another parent.

I have a friend whose daughter suffered a stroke at birth. She has some significant weakness in her right arm and right leg. That has slowed her down some on her physical milestones, but she is right on track in every other way. I hear my friend explain this to people again and again, how her daughter is a little bit behind. I know that her daughter has special challenges, but I just don't see this as "behind." Just different.

Congratulations on your amazing dd! Maybe we'll meet up at a Suzuki Institute some summer, when our daughters are playing their violins side by side!


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## moma justice (Aug 16, 2003)

my baby is really smart too.....!

and we did loose friends over it....

i had been part of a prenatal yoga group and we became a new mom with infants group and then a young toddler play group..etc...

but as our babies got older and we watched each other parent and watched the results of that parenting in our children we kind of fell apart.....

and i could not help but feel a little validated that my baby could ID all of her letters and sounds (just cause she loves letters and sounds...i never drilled her, an ABC book happened to be her favorite at the time...)
and would do so at the park by reading the letters and sounds off of signs etc and the other babies looked like they could barely even focus their eyes on you while you said hello.

and why did i feel validated? b/c these moms (over the course of the first year of our babies' lives) gone back to work full time by around age 3 mo, stopped bf or did not at all, thought co sleeping was CRAZY!!!!, and used to meet all the time with out the babies AKA so not AP!!!!!!
and they thought i was a spaz for not going on the outings when they made it "no babies" and doing all the above (bf, cosleep, staying home etc)

so just saying...it can make you feel like you are doing something right when you can look at your baby and see how AMAZING they are
HOWEVER they happen to be so amazing.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Y'know, my dd was speaking in sentences by 12 months. She had a vocabulary of over 200 words. And now, she's 10. Is she brilliant, a genius, wildly gifted? In my eyes, of course







By traditional academic standards? Heck no! But she still loves to talk!!

And that's what it came down to--my dd loved to talk. That motivated her. It's pretty clear now that her talents lie in the arts, but when she was a toddler we were told that she was extraordinarily smart. Fortunately, we don't put much emphasis on labels and, instead of bragging about her abilities to others who had children the same age, we shared some of the "normal" stuff with other parents and saved the bragging rights for grandparents. I am so glad that we didn't read too much into her early abilities, because now she has a brother whose language was much more delayed but whose concept of numbers is amazing. We simply choose to celebrate our children regardless of where they are in comparison to others, knowing that their knowledge at 12 months, 18 months, 24 months, is no indication of where they will be in five years.


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

G&B'sMama said:


> If people are letting you know that you are making them feel uncomfortable (even though you are not trying to) it is probably a good idea to ease up a bit. When my DD was that age she was extremely verbal, very much like your DD. I shared my excitement with family and friends who didn't have kids and complete strangers- but I held back a bit at playgroups and with my mom's group where the kids were the same age. It took some time but I realized that because my kid was so verbal it either made the other moms feel insecure that something was wrong with their child because he or she wasn't at the same level, or it made them feel overly competitive. I was part of those groups for support because we were parenting kids the same age and making other people feel worried, although indirectly, or overly competitive was really against the whole point of participating.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> i agree. My daughter has always been advanced, and I have actually tried very hard not to tell people things.. i just wait until they come up.. like when she potty trained early.... and people notice that she talks well for her age anyway. I just let her show htem how smart she is.... and i brag to my parents and mil


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## Raynbow (Aug 2, 2004)

Share, brag, whatever away! I've got a "gifted" toddler myself - he was on much the same track (though not as verbal) at that age... he's now going on 3 and has known his entire alphabet since before he turned 2, now counts to 40+ on his own, knows all his colors and shapes (including odd ones), knows some spanish, routinely (and correctly) uses words like "excited" "amazing" and "delicious" (or "Dee-Wishus!" as he says it...) and reads short, important words like "Stop" (and can spell it verbally as well as read it both verbally & written) and Jelly... and is starting to write numbers and letters.
So, yes, the Special Needs - Gifted forum is a good place... we can talk, brag and share to our heart's delight and not worry about other mommas and poppas getting annoyed, so bring it on, momma... share away!
I love hearing about other "gifted" children...









I even had an ER nurse ask me if T was a "genius"... lol


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## PajamaMama (Dec 18, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AddysMama*
i really dont see it as braggin, just sharing her progress, just like the rest of the mommies are doing, and yet, i still feel ganged up on.l

That stinks...but if you have been getting negative comments, and are feeling ganged up on, then there is definitely something going on! I know you want to share your wonder baby with everyone you meet, after all, who doesn't feel that way about their kids?

Maybe just try to be a little bit careful of who you're sharing super advanced stuff with. People who love your little pie as much as you do, like daddy, aunts and uncles, grandparents, will eat that stuff up. But it sounds like the moms in your play circle aren't digging it. And you don't want to alienate all your future playmates! I don't know where you are, but in a smaller city like mine, the pool is sort of limited and people can have long memories.

Good luck with your awesome kid...you will lead such an interesting life just trying to keep up!!! And do keep coming back here...I for one love to hear about how amazing everyone's little ones are.


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kincaid*
Just from reading your post, I would think that what people are reacting badly to are your superlatives which are based on comparsion and exclusivity. You don't just talk about your child's love of learning... that would be something few would react badly to. Rather, some of your wording uses language that compares and places your child "above" and "beyond".

I think that's the difference - celebrating your child is great and most would not chafe at that. However, doing so in a way where you are clearly comparing skill sets and placing your child "above" - that is distasteful to some readers I would bet.

Hmmm... you might have a point there.


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

I think too, that there are differnt types of intelligence, and different personalities, etc etc. Aren't there 8 intelligences?So while one child is intelligent in one way, another is in another way.

I personally think it is wonderful that your dd is so smart. But I think you need to ease up on the standards and such yopu may have of what "smart" is. I love seeing how differnt children learn.You child seems very capable in verbal skills. That is awesome!!!!









I googled the eight inteolligences and here is one site I found.
http://www.ednoland.com.hk/en/ednolandweb/genius_2.cfm


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## jstar (Jul 22, 2004)

i am impressed by overly verbal youngins. i mean what is cuter than a tiny being spouting out complete sentences?????

my child is not overly verbal. he's a bit behind on the verbal. i think that is why i am SO impressed by the ones that are verbal. but he is very physical and spatial. it has been said before....children have different talents. people's brains work in different ways...it is fascinating

i think it is really hard at this age (toddlers) where they are still learning and growing so much each and every month. it is hard not to compare kids and milestones. and really hard if it is your first child to keep in mind that by the time they are all 5 years old the playing field will be so much more level. there still will be the brilliantly verbal and advanced readers but they won't be so many light years ahead of everyone else by then

i think it is great to share your kid's talents. and a lot of how you make other people feel is based in the tone of approach. if it sounds braggy it probably is braggy. doesn't mean there aren't plenty of good opportunities to share stories though.

plus, your DD (or anyone's talented DC) will speak for themselves







other people will notice advanced children without the parent even saying anything









and we are all proud of our dcs whenever they make a new stage in development. that's what mom's do







be proud of their children


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## `guest` (Nov 20, 2001)

I think it's great that you are so excited by your child. However, it isn't cool to go on and on about her. First of all, you are sending the message that being so smart is important in some way, that you are seeking external validation.
It's interesting in Japanese culture, for example the parents would never brag about their children...just say how awful they are, which is a culturally acceptable behavior, just a thought.
It's great she is smart, but focus on her as a person, not the external validation. Else you may have some trouble when she doesnt meet up to your expectations. ANd if you want to have friends, seriously, who wants a friend who is constantly bragging about her kid, especially if yours isnt up to her snuff? I wouldnt. I would want a mama who "sees" her child as a person, not a list of accomplishments. Nuff said.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moma justice*
and i could not help but feel a little validated that my baby could ID all of her letters and sounds (just cause she loves letters and sounds...i never drilled her, an ABC book happened to be her favorite at the time...)
and would do so at the park by reading the letters and sounds off of signs etc and the other babies looked like they could barely even focus their eyes on you while you said hello.

and why did i feel validated? b/c these moms (over the course of the first year of our babies' lives) gone back to work full time by around age 3 mo, stopped bf or did not at all, thought co sleeping was CRAZY!!!!, and used to meet all the time with out the babies AKA so not AP!!!!!!
and they thought i was a spaz for not going on the outings when they made it "no babies" and doing all the above (bf, cosleep, staying home etc)

Uhm, wow. There are a lot of moms who work out of the home on these forums... I'm a sahm myself, just so you know I'm not being "defensive" about this. Also the OP said herself that she couldn't breastfeed her dd due to a breast reduction (or am I mixing the OP up with another poster?). How did she get such a brilliant dd if you are attributing not bfing to your acquaintances' children being so much slower than yours?

I agree with the poster who said it is the "exculsive" terms being used that might offend people or put them off. Even the title, "Anyone have a REALLY smart 16 mo?" implies that you are looking for people whose kids are as smart as yours, on par with yours, etc. My thought when I read that was the same as some other posters have said -- everyone with a 16 mo has a really smart 16 mo!

My oldest was a late talker, but once he started, he did it in full sentences, around age 2. He spoke more clearly, with a wider vocabulary, than a lot of 5 yo, 6 yo, or older kids. He was also small for his age, so he seemed younger for a long time. People were always commenting on how smart he was, simply because he could talk clearly. "Oh, he must have such smart parents! He's so bright. Are you working with him at home? Yada yada yada." Honestly, I tried to downplay it. It is hard, though, I mean, what do you say? "Well, he's good at talking, but he's just awful at __________." And the fact that we are homeschooling doesn't help. He did a couple of months of JK, and was bored. When people ask him if he is in school/what grade is he in (would be grade 1), he says "I tried Kindergarten, but I was bored, and now I homeschool." Everyone says OH, that's a good idea, he's too smart to be in school, yada yada yada. I'm constantly getting comments from people about how smart he is. It seems like it's all they see. I know what that feels like, and I don't think it's a good thing.


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## johub (Feb 19, 2005)

My dd was very gifted as well, and I found I got the best reception when discussing her progress with friends and family members who really care about her and especially those who did not have a child the same age.
In fact as a general rule I try to not discuss my kids developmental progress with moms with children of the same age because I have had some negative feedback.
When my oldest was little I had no idea none of the other kids were doing the same thing. But I did get some cool receptions. I dont think the other parents were beign rude or trying to rain on my parade. But I learned that this was hard for them to hear. And sometimes we are a little competitive even if we dont mean to be.
So now I answer direct questions to moms of other toddlers, and I am honest. But when my kids do somethign I think is truly amazing, I share it with somebody who doesnt have a child that age to compare to.
I have a mom in my moms group whose daughter is way behind verbally. She is very proud of every word her child learns. But she did not say her first word till after her 2nd birthday. For me to gush about the long stories my 2 year old tells or how cute it is to hear her say "pterydactyl", is a little insensitive.
I do share my joy and excitement. But I choose my audience.


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## sparkprincess (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kincaid*
Just from reading your post, I would think that what people are reacting badly to are your superlatives which are based on comparsion and exclusivity. You don't just talk about your child's love of learning... that would be something few would react badly to. Rather, some of your wording uses language that compares and places your child "above" and "beyond".

I think that's the difference - celebrating your child is great and most would not chafe at that. However, doing so in a way where you are clearly comparing skill sets and placing your child "above" - that is distasteful to some readers I would bet.

I gotta agree with this.

I think it's one thing if you are saying, for example, "DD said _______ _____ the other day. Isn't that funny? We couldn't believe that came out of her mouth."

But, if you said something such as "DD is just SO SMART. I really can't believe it. You know, we do have a couple of geniuses in the family and I wouldn't be surprised if she'll follow in their footsteps. I mean, everyone is SO AMAZED at the things she says, blah blah blah blah..." I think people will be turned off quick. I think many people would enjoy hearing about the actual things she says and does ( I know I would) but maybe they don't need it "analyzed" (smart, ahead of the others, genius, gifted, etc). Especially at such a young age when you really can't put labels on it yet.

Anywho, this is not all directed at you buy any means! I think it's a good reminder for all mamas!


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## starlein26 (Apr 28, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mommay*
Lastly, I have learned to take deep joy in my ds' accomplishments without feeling I need the validation of others.


exactly...that's where i am now too!


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *inezyv*I don't see why it would make anyone feel bad about our own children just because we see a child who is amazingly advanced.

It's not a competition. It is fun to share our children's accomplishments.
I agree. I wouldn't really worry about how others take it. It didn't sound to me like you were going on and on about your dd. I understand. I know some moms from playgroup who take offense when my dd does/says things that she *shouldn't* br doing & saying. I say NOTHING about it - just usually smile & shake my head or something but I can tell it makes some people uncomfortable. It hurt my feelings at first & made ME very uncomfortable but now I (and dd) just go about our business & not worry about how others might react. (I have enough to worry about yk?)


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

I found I got the best reception when discussing her progress with friends and family members who really care about her and especially those who did not have a child the same age.
In fact as a general rule I try to not discuss my kids developmental progress with moms with children of the same age because I have had some negative feedback.
ITA with this...it's the approach we take.

I think both sides have a point. It's sort of sad not to be able to talk about your child for fear of making others feel bad or looking "braggy," but it can also be socially insensitive to "talk up" your child in front of other parents who are likely to compare their child to yours.


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## Soundhunter (Dec 13, 2003)

Einstein, known to be one of the most brilliant people in human recorded history, was an extremely late talker (he didn't talk until he was 5) and his parents assumed he was significantly learning disabled and not worthy of much academic attention. In elementary school and middle school he was a below normal student, and no one paid any attention to the "dim wit". He was nothing special in high school, again, slower side of normal, though he did begin to develop an interest in mathematics.

He grew up to become an incredible scientist, linguist, philosopher and activist who changed the world in so many significant ways that everyone knows who he is, he's an icon of brilliance.

My dd was an average talker, but for all we know, she could be more brilliant than any of your so called gifted children, any of the very late talkers out there could turn out to be more brilliant than the linguistically gifted toddlers, it really is too early to tell if your kid is REALLY smart, or just early linguistically.

Also, I'd be wary about comparing your kid to other kids in front of her, it could hamper her social skills if she grows up thinking that she is superior to other kids, or thinks that bragging about herself to anyone who will listen is a good way to talk to interact with potential friends.

I find too much bragging to be annoying about anything, coming from anyone though, I don't really think of it as some great human trait.

I agree with others who say that if other people seem to be put off by it, and if you care, you might want to look at your behavior critically, with an open mind.


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## CherryBomb (Feb 13, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sparkprincess*
I think many people would enjoy hearing about the actual things she says and does ( I know I would) but maybe they don't need it "analyzed" (smart, ahead of the others, genius, gifted, etc). Especially at such a young age when you really can't put labels on it yet.


That's what I was trying to say, you put it more succinctly.


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## lindberg99 (Apr 23, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
I think both sides have a point. It's sort of sad not to be able to talk about your child for fear of making others feel bad or looking "braggy," but it can also be socially insensitive to "talk up" your child in front of other parents who are likely to compare their child to yours.

Hmm, to me it sounded like she was *inviting* comparisons to her child. She could have said something like she is so amazed to see her daughter's verbal development and isn't it just awesome to watch children's verbal skills develop? But instead she says how her daughter is not just smart but "really smart" or "super smart" and lists off how many letters, words, signs, etc. that her daughter knows. And she was even inviting comparisons in the areas where her DD is "average or slightly below average" by listing when her child crawled and walked. These laundry lists are going to put some people on the defensive because they are going to think she's implying that their kid is not "super smart" because he doesn't know 200 words or that he's "below average" because he crawled or walked later than her child.


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## nmm2112 (Sep 6, 2003)

Ok here's my 2cents!

I think it's great to be excited and thrilled by your daughter's gifts! She definately sounds "off the charts"!









My two kids are smart but they're early achievements don't compare! That doesn't make me feel badly - everyone's different. That's the beauty of life and I personally enjoy hearing other mom's being excited and sharing what they're little ones are up too! We all have children to be proud off!









I do know that exceptionally smart children can present their own challenges as far as parenting goes! So, start looking in to it!









Every mom should be proud of their child's talents! It's important to let our kids feel smart, beautiful, appreciated especailly at this young age!

As a side note, I've been trying to focus on kindness with my DS. The in laws are always (googling over how "smart" he is - and yes, he's quick and (of course I'm partial, but both of my children are REALLY good looking) -- but that can all go to their heads as they get a bit older so I like to focus on, "yes, but he's also very kind" and remind DS about manners and how happy it makes people when he does kind things,...that sort of thing.

Oh, and I agree with what a PP said about some attributes we have as children aren't so pronounced as we mature (so my really good looking kids might end up being just average/below average looking adults) oh well, it's good to enjoy how wonderful our kids are today! And hopefully they'll always be kind, good hearted people!


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## Vicitoria (Dec 17, 2004)

This is such an interesting thread.

I think that some parents really work hard at teaching their little ones and I find that annoying. One mom in our play group has been flash card - vocabulary words - no tv from day one. Her son isn't even allowed to watch football with his dad which is his dad's ULTIMATE FAVORITE thing. The boy is just all mommy because she is all in his face all the time. I think that's a little off.

On the other hand...if the child just picks it up and goes with it and it's normal and natural that's completely different. I don't AP has anything to do with it or what you do, it just comes from the child and it is genius. (duh, I can't even spell the word sometimes) All we can really do as parents is work with the positve the best we can and accept all kids for what they are and where they are. We're bi-lingual so my so proabably won't speak much more for a little while. But, he lights up every face he comes across. That's pretty cool.


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## chinaKat (Aug 6, 2005)

I will agree with everybody in that it's the delivery that matters.

At a shower the other day, a mother gave the guest of honor a gift from her five year old daughter (who was not present).

What I *wish* the mother had said: "Little Suzy wrapped the gift and made the card herself -- she was really excited about giving it to you."

What the mother *really* said: "Little Suzy made the card herself! Look at all the stars she drew! Can you believe she can draw stars? When I was that age I couldn't draw stars, but hers are practically PERFECT! And she spelled all the words on her own. She knows SO MANY words! Her teacher says... " blah blah blah. I tuned her out, annoyed.

Who cares, lady? It was cute and thoughtful that your kid made a card. And the recipient probably would have complimented it -- if she could have gotten a word in edgewise!!!! But by the time the woman shut up, all the recipient could manage was a meek "Wow."

chinaKat


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## Rigama (Oct 18, 2005)

In my eyes my ds is brilliant. Are there other kids more "advanced" than him? Absolutely. Are there some kids who aren't quite where he is? You bet. But frankly, honestly, sincerely and from the deepest part of my parental soul I think it *TOTALLY FREAKING SUCKS* that in most instances I cannot share the joy of my son's accomplishments and interests with other parents. Why? Because I have to walk on eggshells to not "offend" a parent. I have never said anything like "My son is so much smarter than other kids his age" or "He's so bright because I spend lots of time reading to him and following his lead" or "My parenting is better than yours nanny nanny boo boo". Mostly I don't even comment about what he can or cannot do. I don't share the fact that he loves to sit and figure out complicated structures or listen to books meant for kids years older than he is. Why? Because when I do I'm treated as though I've just said "Hey guess what? I bought my husband a prostitute for his birthday!" I wish that this whole motherhood society wasn't so darn cliquish, P.C. and exclusive. I don't judge the parents who's child is developmently "below" and it's totally unfair that I'm judged for having a kid who (again in MY book) is just...well, amazing.

Thanks for the rant!


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Quote:

I don't share the fact that he loves to sit and figure out complicated structures or listen to books _meant for kids years older than he is_.
But why does it matter who the books were meant for? A lot of kids are enthralled with books that are intended for an older audience, just as those same kids can be enthralled with The Cat in the Hat. It's about the language, the visual, not necessarily brilliance or advanced reasoning. You can celebrate your child's individuality without qualifying it. We are supposed to be in love with our own children's abilities and special talents; we also need to be aware that we are seeing them through biased eyes and, where we see brilliance, another mother could very well see average--and it doesn't matter. I'm not impressed with early language development. It frequently levels out and the parents who were so sure that their child was a genius either come crashing really hard or continue to hold unreasonably high expectations until the child becomes burnt out. It isn't fair to slap an academic label on a baby or toddler. It's too early to see what's going to happen later and some of those children so thoughtfully labeled "developmentally below" might very well surprise you in a few years. We have one child who was formerly "brilliant" who is now (haha) average; one child who might have been considered "developmentally below" who is undoubtedly gifted; and one who keeps us laughing all day and filled with joy just because he's alive. And they're all unique and wonderful and brilliant in their own right, just as every child is and, even as a formally "gifted" student, I am really sick of parents of supposedly "gifted" children griping because they can't brag. I would bet every parent bites their tongue occasionally out of simple respect for other parents. It's common courtesy. Start a blog, write in a journal, confide your joys in a close friend or relative...


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## Vicitoria (Dec 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rigama*
I wish that this whole motherhood society wasn't so darn cliquish, P.C. and exclusive. I don't judge the parents who's child is developmently "below" and it's totally unfair that I'm judged for having a kid who (again in MY book) is just...well, amazing.

Thanks for the rant!


I totally agree. I also have to admit I do get jealous of the mom's with kids that are advanced. Then, I look at my son and realize he is just where he needs to be doing what he needs to do. I used to judge us against a mom I met at storytime. Her 9 month old had a 10 word vocabulary. 9 months later I bumped into her again and I was excited to ask her about it because I thought it was amazing. She said the only word she said at that point was cat. So, go figure.


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## TortelliniMama (Mar 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinaKat*
I will agree with everybody in that it's the delivery that matters.

At a shower the other day, a mother gave the guest of honor a gift from her five year old daughter (who was not present).

A little OT, although it's really just the older kid version of this... At my friend's bridal shower, an aunt of the groom-to-be brought a gift of a framed poem. She (the aunt) made a big announcement that her 10-(or maybe 12-, I can't remember)year-old granddaughter (who wasn't there) had written the poem, and she insisted that the bride read it out loud. We all listened, expecting a cute (or even touching) kid view of marriage, weddings, or *something remotely related to the reason for giving a gift in the first place*! Instead, it was a patriotic poem, reminding us to be grateful for the sacrifices made by members of our armed forces. I suppose it was a good poem, especially for a child, but it was quite painfully obvious that Grandma was just dying to show off her granddaughter's talents and had taken the slightest provocation as an excuse to do it. She dragged everyone's attention away from the bride, and just ended up making people scratch their heads in puzzlement before they politely assured her that it was an amazing, brilliant, beautiful poem.

I forget if I had any particular point to make here. I'm just too tired...maybe I'll remember in the morning...


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## boatbaby (Aug 30, 2004)

I love it when my DS hangs out with kids (his age or older) who are more advanced than him. It challenges him and gives him a chance to grow. Being the smartest person in the room usually sucks. being around those who know more about something than you is far more fun- adult or kid I think.

I agree about the kindness factor. We have a baby friend the same age as DS who is leaps and bounds more verbal. But she is a handful and can be a little mean. DS may not be speaking in sentences, but he is kind and gentle and curious and empathetic - that makes me proud.









It also matters HOW a child advances. I have a friend who says things like "I was working with DD the other day on XYZ"... WORKING? What ever happened to playing? And this is with a 16 month old as well. You can drill any kid into being a genius. These friends have 2 foreign language tutors come in EVERYDAY for an hour a day each (neither parent is bilungual) just to get the babe (16 months old) ahead. So they like to boast that she speaks three languages at 16 months.

GREAT for her - HONESTLY.
Butat16 months old I like that my son has a developed sense of FUN and silliness and can smell his own feet and crack up about the stink


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## GeezerMom (Apr 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Missy*
It's too early to see what's going to happen later and some of those children so thoughtfully labeled "developmentally below" might very well surprise you in a few years.

Yeppers.

While I was busy being the "gifted" one in our family, my younger sister was labeled "retarded" in, like, first grade maybe? Kindergarten?

Yeah.

She's the one with a Ph.D. in psychology, who's decided to pursue her love of music rather than being a therapist (she'd almost finished a degree in Composition before switching to psych) by playing for and touring with some well-known comedy troupes. She's written quite a few musicals.

Me? College dropout. I've had a lot of jobs, never made much money. Before kids I did have a small career as an artist, which I enjoyed, and it took me years & years to develop that.

I can understand the pp who felt vindicated in her child-rearing choices when her offspring developed more quickly than those using other (less crunchy) methods. It's hard to have faith in our methodology, particularly as first-timers. But there are sooooo many areas of growth - my children have strong empathy and sharing traits, and they're really funny. I'd assumed my kids would be more verbal, but am really enjoying them just the way they are (most days).

Personally, I try to never talk about my children in comparison to others. It's a slippery slope; plus, who could possibly compare with my darlings?


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## CryPixie83 (Jan 27, 2004)

Our dd has a pretty big vocabulary upwards of 200 words (but that was at 14 months and she's 16 months now) and a few signs (she knows and uses a MAX of 20). She's not using complete sentences yet, but does string a few words together. However, we're still working on colors and haven't even tried numbers yet. She calls the alphabet "beecees" and that's the extent of that one. Sh'es always been "advanced" for her age (I hate saying that because to me she's right where she should be because every child is different) which sometimes makes it difficult for me to remember she's still just a baby.


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## m9m9m9 (Jun 13, 2005)

"Anyone have a REALLY smart 16 mo? "

So i have to ask you, when you posted this type of question on the other sites did anyone reply and say 'gee no, my kid is dumb as dirt, lucky you, you got a good one!'

BTW my DD is 16 months old, I think she is super smart, super witty and super cute!


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## mamachandi (Sep 21, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LeosMama*
But children develope at different rates and just b/c she's advanced in these areas now, doesn't mean she will stay that way forever. I'm really not trying to bring you down or dismiss her gifts as it may very well be that she turns out to be a simultaneous translator or something equally challenging.

There are many kinds of talents and gifts. My ds, though he cannot speak, is very mechanical and understands the uses of most of dh's tools. He understands how to help me sew with my basic machine. He can disassemble anything that has loosened screws and open any screw top bottle (anything loose enough for him to turn). He knows how to use ratchets and the cordless drill (as in, he can screw things together and drill holes). He also has been able to kick balls ever since learning to walk and run. He climbs the 15 foot climbing wall at the park without help, just a spotter. He knows how to assemble his legos and understands how puzzles go together, he has a great aptitude for spatial reasoning.

But he cannot speak, and doesn't sign anything spontaneously, only with prompting. I doubt my slow son is less gifted than your more advanced daughter. The reason I resent people bragging about this stuff is that our culture tends to see verbal skills and those related to verbal development as being the benchmark of intelligence and creative and spatial skills (among many others) are not considered as important and indicative of relative intelligence.

I think intelligence is situational. An engineer in an English lit publishing firm is a pretty dumb person, by and large. A poet in a chemistry lab is pretty lame, by and large. But each of these talents and skill sets represents a different world view and pattern of brain function. You cannot compare them and say that one is gifted and the other less

Soooo true!!








my sil is really into competitive parenting and she spends alot of time drilling her child and flash cards,memorization and the like (she is 2 1/2) my dd is the same age as hers and she is constantly saying "my dd is already reading and writing,is yours yet?" or something along those lines-now I am not saying this is what you do but this post just reminded me of that and it made me


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

You have to look at what you are saying about your kid. It's WHAT you emphasize that people will think you care MOST about. So if you emphasize your daughter's academic prowess then people will think that's what you care about most. A lot of people will assume that you're a competitive mom if you focus on that stuff a lot.

If you temper your statements with, "well she really surprised me that should could do X but it could be a fluke, you know some kids get way ahead of the curve on some things and then they even out later on. I see that YOUR kid is advanced in X!" and let the other parent share a little then you're probably ok. But if you just gush about how amazing and REALLY really smart your kid is and how 'advanced', etc. she is well then people will think you are comparing because those are comparative words and that can be hurtful.

One of my friends has a child that is a little behind in some areas (due to a medical condition) and she feels terribly guilty about it as though there must have been something she could have done to fix it but that's not true. She's done everything right by all the books and he just has had some issues. It's not her fault but around her I really try to be sensitive to her pain and spend most of my time validating her about what is right with her child and de-emphasizing any comparatives where my dd stands out because what's the point. Isn't her need for comfort more important than mine for validation?

Even with same level kids - I never make it look like I'm fishing for a complement for me or my child. It's one thing to confide in a friend that you are overwhelmed with keeping up with your kids learning. It's another to expect others to understand the depths of the river of your mommy-heart for your child. They just won't. It's not communicatable.

I think labels on children like "gifted" and "advanced" can be harmful in that they create a sense of pressure that the kid now has to live up to. It's great to be excited about your kid but I think as parents we have to channel that energy into its most productive forms. If your kid is brilliant, nature will take care of letting that emerge as long as you provide a good stimulating learning environment. But some of this can get into the whole "punished by rewards" issues where you take the joy of learning away from a kid by internalizing your kids' accomplishments too much and cheering too loudly where your kid can't hear their own thoughts. It gets back to the whole "good job" thing - where the parent can take the fun away from the experience by changing it into an exercise to get mom's approval.

For me, my daughter is WAY ahead of the curve on a number of issues but I really don't tell anyone besides my parents about it because well - in our culture it's considered obnoxious. Stating your kids' achievements in a certain fashion in our culture is considered the same as stating your own achievements - just stating them is considered braggadocios. That's because many in our society we believe that the parent is credited for at least part of both the failures and successes of their children. So to state that your kid is doing really well in just a flat out statement will look to most people like you are complimenting yourself and your parenting even if you don't say those words. Even if our athletes don't show it, our culture for the most part still values humility on a day to day interaction basis. We don't want to hear people bragging about themselves or their kids. There are certain people who want to hear these things and the rest don't want to know and that's ok.

I went through a time when my dd started to show signs that she was not just a little ahead of the curve but way ahead in some areas that I started to re-evaluate my own childhood and the areas where I stood out that no one noticed and for a time I wanted to tell others about my dd and I wanted to make sure she got the validation I didn't as a kid. But I realized that I was trying to live through her a little and that I needed to stop and let her have her own room to enjoy her gifts without me stealing her glory by announcing it to the world. I let other adults figure it out for themselves. They stop and say, "Whoa! Did she just do that?" and I just nod and smile a little and that is my mommy-validation. I'm sure she'll be reading by age 3 - I did and she's a bit ahead of where I was - sight reading some words before age 2 (but there are lots of kids way ahead of her too).

But you know - I tell her she's smart and celebrate her accomplishments but stay WAY away from value judgments on her abilities. I do not EVER want her to feel like I am proud of her or love her MOST because of those external accomplishments. I want her to KNOW that it's her tender heart and who she is - an incredibly valuable person that I love most and that is what I emphasize the most in my interactions with her and when I talk about her to others.


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## Jennbee (Apr 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *m9m9m9*
"Anyone have a REALLY smart 16 mo? "

So i have to ask you, when you posted this type of question on the other sites did anyone reply and say 'gee no, my kid is dumb as dirt, lucky you, you got a good one!'

BTW my DD is 16 months old, I think she is super smart, super witty and super cute!









My reply is, I have what I believe to be a regular 21 month old. But, ask her Nana and she would say that she really "picks up a lot"


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

Also if your child ends up on the gifted spectrum long-term it will be a huge part of her life. The mommy relationship shouldn't be all tangled up in that but should be a no-performance place where you just rest and are loved for who you are on the inside. Kids hear what mom tells others. My dd talks about things that happened and things that were said to her MONTHS before she was verbal. Your child is hearing what you talk about to others and is processing that in her mind. She is realizing what you value and setting her compass to what you emphasize about her and what her sense of worth is based on.


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
I think both sides have a point. It's sort of sad not to be able to talk about your child for fear of making others feel bad or looking "braggy," but *it can also be socially insensitive to "talk up" your child in front of other parents who are likely to compare their child to yours.*









:


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Quote:

So i have to ask you, when you posted this type of question on the other sites did anyone reply and say 'gee no, my kid is dumb as dirt, lucky you, you got a good one!'






















:


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## BoyGirlTwinsAPMama (Jul 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AddysMama*
f course childrens development slows down as they age,
(sorry for the caps below, it was stuck in caps lock and i just don't feel like retyping at this time of night)
THE GIFTED DEVELOPMENT CENTER SAYS THIS IS BECAUSE GIFTED CHILDREN (ESPECIALLY GIRLS) DUMB THEMSELVES DOWN SO THEY DON'T PISS OTHER PEOPLE OFF BY BEING SO SMART. IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT FOR YOUR DD? TO DUMB HERSELF DOWN? I DON'T THINK SO. IF A CHILD SHOWS GREAT PROMISE BEFORE 3 YO and then peter out later in school, THEN THEY ARE NOT LIVING UP TO THEIR INTELLECTUAL POTENTIAL LATER ON IN LIFE, PER THE GIFTED DEVELOPMENT CENTER, IT ISN'T BECAUSE THEY GOT STUPIDER, it's b/c they figured out that other people get all pissy when they act smarter than them. check out Hoagies website too, it tells a lot about younger children and what they do when gifted, and YES, you can tell they are gifted at a young age, you do not have to wait until they are 8 yo as is the common misconception, but you probably have to wait to have their IQ tested if that is the sort of thing you would want to do.

we plan on home/unschooling, and my main worry is being able to keep up with her!

ME TOO WITH MY KIDS. But we cannot be all things to our children and if her needs outdo your smarts to provide for them, do the right thing for her and get her a mentor or send her off for college classes like other HS'ing mamas do for their children at lots of younger ages than 16, HS'ing just tends to quicken the pace of learning, you can't beat that one-to-one teacher/student ratio, no matter what the IQ of the student. Also, I have a suggestion that I wish I knew about last year. Get her some Montessori toys to play with and leave them around the playroom for her. Kids love them and I got a bunch of them from AlisonsMontessori (they sell on ebay too, but they happen to be in my neighborhood). You can email Michelle and she will help you pick out which ones are good for your particular dd, and NO, I do not even know her except for the hour she spent helping me figure out where my kids were on the Montessori needs and what to buy for them. My kids LOVE the toys and they are good to start younger for brighter children.

i think all of us mamas have every right to be proud of our children and want to express it to others,

I agree with you!!!, but you could be doing it with people who CARE and with other gifted parents, b/c they will not feel slighted about your child's accomplishments, and also they will put some real perspective about your dd's actual accomplishments and where it stands in relation to other intellectually gifted children when you are all excited about something such as your 16 mo knowing #1 and 2 (my dd knew 1-20 and ALL her uppercase alphabet A-Z at that age and corresponding words to go with the letters (A is for Apple, B is for Ball, C is for Cat... and I did not understand that she was gifted back then, how stupid could her gifted mother be??? LOL) and I don't have time to go into my ds's gifts.

but really i cannot see why other moms get upset with me for wanting to share Addys accomplishments, when they too share their childs, just because she is more advanced in the language department. its not fair. really it isnt.

I AGREE WITH YOU 100%. You have my undying sympathy, I live your plight daily, although not with language b/c my 28 mo twins made up their OWN language and decided only recently actually to speak english to me and german to their father, my dh. Other people, including posters here, SCREAM about how they tandem nurse (I miscarried our first baby, oh the emotional pain of hearing about their 1 year older baby tandem nursing, but do THEY care that they are hurting MY feelings??? NO!!!) Other people SCREAM in their sigs about their CD'ing and their nurslings weaning at 42 months and they have NO SENSITIVITY WHATSOEVER that I was unable to exclusively bf my twins b/c of a horrible NICU hospital event that introduced bottles to them for the first 4 days of their life even though I pumped every 45 minutes for 8 weeks round the clock, to my feelings that my son WANTED to stop nursing at 14 mos. b/c he liked eating solids so much and that I had twins and a whole host of ISSUES and could not get anyone to explain cloth diapering to me, even though I bought them and I ended up having to use disposables b/c where I live NO ONE CD's and NO ONE could explain what to do and I did not have 1 extra minute to go online and try to figure it out for myself having to earn a living at the same time as taking care of 2 newborns with no help whatsoever for the first 6 weeks of sleeplessness. And I tried and tried and tried to get pregnant for years and when I saw those big full round bellies on women walking around just rubbing their tummies in open public as if they were having sex with their bellies and acting all pregnant mamma like and going on and on about their baby this and their baby that when I had no baby and wanted one so badly, they couldn't care less how every single word they spoke was a dagger into my barren heart and all of my older friends who were told to have our careers first and get pregnant later and never could get pregnant later. And then when I have to endure the friends who go on and on about their sisters and brothers doting on their children and coming over and taking their kids out to the park, etc... and getting hand me downs from their sister's kids, it makes me want to curl up and CRY and actually I often do b/c MY sister AND brother DIED of CANCER before they could even have children and so my kids have NO cousins and no uncles/aunts to come and play with them (and my bro. and sis. would have been PERFECT aunt/uncles, they were totally AWESOME people and loved kids). Soooo, I could go on and on, but you know what? Because we KNOW how this makes us feel, then we need to be the big ones about it and NOT DO THAT TO OTHERS. It is the human kind thing to do.







So, I keep my ranting about how smart and intellectually brilliant our children are with mothers who also have smart and intellectually brilliant youngsters, and with the other mothers I just have great kids, like they have great kids, b/c it's true







. B/c it really is GREAT to have kids finally







and most of them do the same things at some point, just maybe sooner or later than others, but most mothers do get to experience the same things with their kids and so we do all have a lot in common as well as minute differences in the space time continuum about which month after they exited your womb they jumped with both feet (my ds did at 16 mos, right after he learned how to walk up stairs alternating feet without holding on and then turning around at the top and jumping down to land on his feet like a cat, with a mama that almost passed out cold in fear watching from across the room while Pamper diapering his twin sister).


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## Datura (Mar 18, 2005)

My little boy has always been pretty darn talented, as well. I find that if you let people compliment him first, then agree, it comes off a little better.

I was very gifted as well, and my mother would "build up" my self esteem by telling me how much better I was than person X or person Y. Its taken me years of work to not judge myself next to others, or put people down in my head. So I tend to work really hard not to draw comparisons period, or do anything that could possibly be construed as such. So if someone says he's advanced, I'll say "he's a smart cookie" or something else similar.

Don't get me wrong, I think the universe revolves around my little (literally) golden boy.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

A few years ago there was a wonderfully verbal baby girl in our playgroup. When she was around 10 months, she was saying 'Mama's nipple" when she wanted to nurse, as well as other really cute things. We all joked she was throwing off the curve for the rest of the babies. All of our little slackers eventually caught up.


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## Kincaid (Feb 12, 2004)

Anyone have an amazingly beautiful child? Not just a cute child, but a REALLY beautiful child? Like when you put your child with their peers and it is just obvious they are far beyond in attractivness. And in so many areas, hair, eyes, skin color, expressions. I know we are all proud, but some kids just stand out as VERY attractive, you know? I myself was a beauty queen and I see those same traits in my child. Its like seeing a little version of me. What sucks is that I can't talk about this to other moms because they get really pissy with me. I worked very hard to have an attractive child, ate a strictly macrobiotic diet and exclusively breastfeed, we are proud of being AP. I want to be able to shout from the rooftops how VERY attractive and special my child is, but the insecurities of others prevent this.









If we took out the word smart and inserted the word pretty, we'd probably all agree that verbalizing those kind of comments would be setting their child up for life-long issues with feelings of self-esteem. I think it works the same with intelligence. Or athletic ability. Or musical ability.
Just because it is academic rather than looks, doesn't make it less obnoxious









Of course, mild, approrpriate praise and pride about your child is a good thing. There is a line, I think, and others may pick up on it better than we ourselves do.


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## Kincaid (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sophmama*
But if you just gush about how amazing and REALLY really smart your kid is and how 'advanced', etc. she is well then people will think you are comparing because those are comparative words and that can be hurtful.

I agree, and that when the parent is introducing comments like "I was gifted myself, and she certainly seems amazingly beyond her peers..." that does not do much for your child's E.Q. (never mind how it strains the friendships of other moms and children). Developmentalists stress that EQ is as much a factor in life success as IQ, impacting things like resilience, motivation, happiness, perserverance. Children with high IQ's paradoxically often suffer from a much lower EQ than "average kids" - and often are not as successful in their life pursuits. Anyone who thinks they have a gifted child should read up on EQ, very helpful stuff.
Middle children - whom parents impose the least amount of verbal feedback on performance to - score highest in self-esteem, in resilience, and overall success. It is the chidren who recieve the least amount of preformance-related messages that developmentalists say do "best" and report the most happiness in life. Take a look at the book "Einstein Never used Flashcards". You will find it fascinating I am sure. It has some great suggestions to keep up with a fast-learning child. And it guides parents through some of the pitfalls of "bright" kids.


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## Diane B (Mar 15, 2004)

I have been following this thread for a couple of days. The only thing I want to add is that I am very grateful to have the privilege of being an adoptive parent. It has really helped me let go of expectations for my daughter. We have NO IDEA what her skills and interests will be. We know almost nothing about her background. Every time she hits a developmental milestone, I feel really happy and relieved, (and proud, of course, like any mama) but I just want her to grow up to be a happy and kind person.


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## GeezerMom (Apr 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kincaid*
Anyone have an amazingly beautiful child? Not just a cute child, but a REALLY beautiful child?...

Rats! I thought we were switching to a different topic & was sitting here nodding







My verbally average kids ARE stunners







.

Seriously, I agree w/everything *Kincaid* said. Really important stuff.


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

Kincaid


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## bklynmom04 (Dec 12, 2004)

interesting thread. what i'll add has been touched on by quite a few of the PPs and/or is the general theme of most of the posts...

babies are amazing, right? the first smile, laugh, inquisitive look, sign... and then, at some point, this little thing that you've cradled and carried and fed and devoted all of your life to all of a sudden communicates with you in a way you completely understand -- words. and then comes his comprehension of what he's saying. (how did he know that the big green thing on the side walk is a "garbage can"? i'm sure i didn't tell him... his father, maybe?) and he's *SO* pleased with himself b/c he sees the joy it brings you. and the big grin just makes you even more thrilled. and it makes you want to tell everyone because it's just so cool -- i mean, WHO KNEW?! kids are amazing creatures.

but i guess i look at all of my boy's friends as amazing creatures. and i always try to return a compliment when i recieve a compliment. and i try to limit my bragging (shameless, or otherwise) to my DH, ILs and mother. to some extent, i don't think that other people care very much and i also am a bit weary of the unspoken "best-mommy-of-the-decade" competition that seems to be underway.

i will admit that i have posted once (on another board) about how special my boy is and rec'd very sweet, likeminded replies. i guess i posted it b/c i felt like i was going to BUST b/c he was going through a big learning curve and i couldn't get over how much was going on in that little (well, actually, melon) head of his.

anyway, congrats on being so happy with your child! i'm sure you'd be equally as thrilled to be his/her mommy even if she didn't speak a word.


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## Brisen (Apr 5, 2004)

I, too, agree with Kincaid.

There are lots of situations where we think about what we say and self-censor before talking. I have a friend who has been ttc for a few years now. When I was pg, I didn't go on and on about how excited I was, or talk about feeling the baby move, or my birth plans, etc. If she asked, I would talk about it, but certainly not at length. Should I have been upset that I didn't get to gush to absolutely everyone I knew about how happy I was to by having another baby and how much I loved being pregnant? I joined a couple of online pregnancy groups and I talked about it there.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Missy*
Y'know, my dd was speaking in sentences by 12 months. She had a vocabulary of over 200 words. And now, she's 10. Is she brilliant, a genius, wildly gifted? In my eyes, of course







By traditional academic standards? Heck no! But she still loves to talk!!

And that's what it came down to--my dd loved to talk. That motivated her. It's pretty clear now that her talents lie in the arts, but when she was a toddler we were told that she was extraordinarily smart. Fortunately, we don't put much emphasis on labels and, instead of bragging about her abilities to others who had children the same age, we shared some of the "normal" stuff with other parents and saved the bragging rights for grandparents. I am so glad that we didn't read too much into her early abilities, because now she has a brother whose language was much more delayed but whose concept of numbers is amazing. We simply choose to celebrate our children regardless of where they are in comparison to others, knowing that their knowledge at 12 months, 18 months, 24 months, is no indication of where they will be in five years.

yeah that.

This is us, too. Except DH and I keep laughing about how our toddler loves to talk and loves words. We each think it's because of us! And yes, we share those accomplishments with grandparents and don't put too much stock in it. I agree with the sentiments that if you're words are making people uncomfortable, you could write them off as curmudgeons, or examine what you may be doing to contribute to it.

My first response to the thread title was - Yes, of course; We ALL have REALLY smart kids!


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## Leilalu (May 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kincaid*
Anyone have an amazingly beautiful child? Not just a cute child, but a REALLY beautiful child? Like when you put your child with their peers and it is just obvious they are far beyond in attractivness. And in so many areas, hair, eyes, skin color, expressions. I know we are all proud, but some kids just stand out as VERY attractive, you know? I myself was a beauty queen and I see those same traits in my child. Its like seeing a little version of me. What sucks is that I can't talk about this to other moms because they get really pissy with me. I worked very hard to have an attractive child, ate a strictly macrobiotic diet and exclusively breastfeed, we are proud of being AP. I want to be able to shout from the rooftops how VERY attractive and special my child is, but the insecurities of others prevent this.









If we took out the word smart and inserted the word pretty, we'd probably all agree that verbalizing those kind of comments would be setting their child up for life-long issues with feelings of self-esteem. I think it works the same with intelligence. Or athletic ability. Or musical ability.
Just because it is academic rather than looks, doesn't make it less obnoxious









Of course, mild, approrpriate praise and pride about your child is a good thing. There is a line, I think, and others may pick up on it better than we ourselves do.









Ok, this is really funny!

I also think the quote about someone responding their kid is dumb as dirt is pretty funny too.
Also, I think certain standards people hold of "smartness" come off as offensive. I mean, for example- I suck at math, always did poorly in school in math, but was excellent in art. I can do a photo-realistic painting of yer mama and it will look like she is smiling down at you from on the wall. Not bragging, just the truth. But I couldn't mathematically plan it out. My GPA never showed my strengths. I was graded in a collective value of my grades in each subject-even ones I was not any good at. And my GPA always suffered a bit. But were others graded on whether or not they could do a sculpture, paint something, throw a pot on the wheel?Not really. I know everyone has had to take classes out of their normal area of study, but I think the grading system/standards of intelligence in this country or anywhere are highly skewed.

So I think if you made more of an effort to aknowledge differnt areas of intligence in children, people would look at the way you talk about your child differntly. Not saying you don't, just a suggestion.


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Alkenny*
She's in 7th grade, still gets mostly straight A's, but is more on the "average" spectrum now.

Unless it's changed, a C is "average"...an A is way higher than that! Don't sell you daughter short!


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## TurboClaudia (Nov 18, 2003)

i must say, it is so weird to read this thread having actually in real life met and talked with the mama who started this thread and her daughter.

it really drives home the inferences that can be interpreted from written lines and how one has to choose their written words carefully when in the land of the web...

~claudia


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## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vicitoria*

I think that some parents really work hard at teaching their little ones and I find that annoying. One mom in our play group has been flash card - vocabulary words - no tv from day one. Her son isn't even allowed to watch football with his dad which is his dad's ULTIMATE FAVORITE thing. The boy is just all mommy because she is all in his face all the time. I think that's a little off.

On the other hand...if the child just picks it up and goes with it and it's normal and natural that's completely different.

But, is your friend's child happy or miserable? And why should it be annoying that parents work hard to teach their children? As a public school teacher, I find it more annoying that so many parents take such little interest in their children's education! If a child is receptive to the parent's teaching, I say, Go for it! After all, the parent clearly has a better understanding of who her child is (as a learner and a whole child) than a teacher who knows the kid for less than one year and only several hours at a time. Why is it okay only if the child initiates it?


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## GeezerMom (Apr 7, 2005)

Because wanting to watch football w/Daddy is a normal bonding experience for little boys, whereas memorizing flash cards w/Mommy will get your lunch money stolen.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GeezerMom*
Because wanting to watch football w/Daddy is a normal bonding experience for little boys, whereas memorizing flash cards w/Mommy will get your lunch money stolen.


Huh?


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## oldcrunchymom (Jun 26, 2002)

To the OP: you may want to check out the Gifted Children thread in Special Needs. You can "brag" away there without fear.


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Addy'sMama:

First, I think it's wonderful that your dd communicates so well. Second, I think you'll find that if you completely stop talking about your dd, you'll still get negative reactions IRL, because other people are looking and paying attention. Some other people are always going to compare their child against yours and everyone else's. Sometimes, you can't win for losing. Sometimes, you don't mean to compare your child to others in your head, but the things your child is doing seem so out there that it's impossible not to notice it. I don't think it is wrong to notice it, as long as you're not doing it with judgement. Personally, I think most people compare and contrast in their head, which is why so many people are defensive about this topic.

My son didn't talk until 22 months old. I noticed the other kids were talking and the other parents noticed that mine said, "da". It was impossible not to notice. It didn't bother me. I loved to hear how verbal my relative's kids were; it had no relationship to my son whatsoever. And you know, he was always slow physically. I felt badly that it affected his ability to keep up with age-mates on the playground, but I wasn't hurt that other kids could run and climb so well. My son was advanced in spatial areas and some other academic stuff I won't get into here and people reacted pretty negatively to that, even when I didn't say anything (they noticed).

Don't feel bad that your dd does what she does. Celebrate her and celebrate what other people's kids do too. Don't do what I initially did, which was to downplay my son's abilities to stroke other people's egos or to point out a negative thing he did when confronted on his advancements to make them feel appeased. Be honest, but I personally don't volunteer information anymore. I keep it to close family, because other people don't want to hear it, whether that's right or wrong. It leads to an easier life, IMO. I do hear you on the hypocrisy that it's Ok to talk about their little accomplishments as long as they are not advanced in an academic area. But it is what it is. Check out the gifted support thread sometime.


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## SleepyMamaBear (Jun 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TurboClaudia*
i must say, it is so weird to read this thread having actually in real life met and talked with the mama who started this thread and her daughter.

it really drives home the inferences that can be interpreted from written lines and how one has to choose their written words carefully when in the land of the web...

~claudia

i completely agree with that Claudia.
inflection and intonation of voice just doesnt come across via the www. the words "but i didnt say that" could be misread as but *I* didnt say that" (implying, i didnt, but you/he/she did) or "but i didnt *SAY* that" (meaning sure, i didnt say it, but i sure thought it!!!) or "but i didnt say *THAT*" (meaning those werent my exact words, please dont tell me what i said)
see, how odd that one little sentance of 5 harmelss words can be read in so many ways.
also, how quick we ALL are to assume we know everything about a person and their situation and environment and children and attitudes and beliefs based on a single, or sometimes a few posts on an internet forum.
now i myself personally dont have all the time in the world to type a 5 page essay on my background, history, belief system, plans for the future, attitude, etc. i take what little time i DO get while Addy is asleep to come online and try to connect with like minded parents in soemwhat similar situations(again assuming), and so my posts are sometimes long, but apparently not long enough to appease everyone or give enough detail so the internet gods arent on my ass about what an uncaring vicious woman/mother i am.
my dd's aunts and uncles see her ALOT and so do her grandparents, seeing as we all (minus two of my sisters) live in one big(but never big enough) house. so they know just how damn great she is and we do marvel at her constantly








the women that were ganging up on me on the forum i was talking about in my original post were online on another website, so Addy never hears it, and she cant read yet, so no worries about her head getting so big it wont fit through the door.
the other women in that forum gush about their childrens accomplish ments just as much if not MORE than i do about Addy, but if i mention anything about Addys acomplishments or new skills i am verbally(ok written verbally) attacked and called a bitch because thats being insensitive to those moms whose children arent doing the same things Addy does. then i am called a liar because how could my 16 month old possibly be saying those things and understanding those concepts at that age if their child isnt. and that really bothers me.
as a mommy i have(just as all mommies should) a right to be proud of and want to share Addys acomplishments, and i shouldnt have to hold them back beause someones feelings might get hurt because their child isnt doing the same thing.
my feelings arent hurt when their children do something Addy cant do at an earlier age than she is. no, i do a little online dance and celebrate their childrens newly learned feat. i try to always post a response about how wonderful it is that their children are growing and developing, and how happy i am for them, truely. is it so much to ask for that in return instead of hostility?


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## SleepyMamaBear (Jun 5, 2005)

also, thanks for the support ladies.
i will check that thread out.


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## Mommay (Jul 29, 2004)

There was some sarcasm in some of the posts, but I didn't sense the hostility that you refer to. I don't think anyone said that you shouldn't be proud of your dd. We are all proud of our dc. But some posters disagreed with how to handle that pride with other people. Did you not find any of that instructive at all? I certainly learned a lot from reading people's posts. I hope you are open to some of it as well. After all, you did ask for people's opinions, and you got it.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

Kincaid, you rock.

I think bragging does not generally go over well, regardless of what we brag about. The exception being close friends and family, who are often happy to share in the spirit of the brag.

I have an amazing husband. Really. I think he's the bee's knees, and I could write pages and pages about the qualities I find so amazing. I'll spare you all.







Just as I spare most of my friends. I'll tell people that I love and respect my husband, or that he's the finest man I've ever known, but I won't get into the nitty gritty details of why he's so darn amazing. Its rude to do so.

I have a smart daughter. Not a genius, but smart enough that I could find ways to brag if I wanted to. I don't. Ok, I brag to my sister and the grandparents, but they share an investment in my dd's greatness. LOL. Genetic pride and all that. (I'm being tongue in cheek people).

So here I am, with an amazing husband and an amazing daughter. The fact that other people might see them as average means nothing to me, and the fact that I see them as extraordinary means nothing to most people.


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AddysMama*
the other women in that forum gush about their childrens accomplish ments just as much if not MORE than i do about Addy, but if i mention anything about Addys acomplishments or new skills i am verbally(ok written verbally) attacked and called a bitch because thats being insensitive to those moms whose children arent doing the same things Addy does. then i am called a liar because how could my 16 month old possibly be saying those things and understanding those concepts at that age if their child isnt. and that really bothers me.
as a mommy i have(just as all mommies should) a right to be proud of and want to share Addys acomplishments, and i shouldnt have to hold them back beause someones feelings might get hurt because their child isnt doing the same thing.
my feelings arent hurt when their children do something Addy cant do at an earlier age than she is. no, i do a little online dance and celebrate their childrens newly learned feat. i try to always post a response about how wonderful it is that their children are growing and developing, and how happy i am for them, truely. is it so much to ask for that in return instead of hostility?


Ok now that is really odd - it sounds like an unhealthy environment and it sounds like it is COMPLETELY appropriate for you to post your dd's accomplishments when other moms are conversing about the topic. Sorry they treated you like that. Sometimes things posted in haste can be misread by others because of lack of puncuation or whatever - hopefully that was the case but if not - hugs to you and hopefully you can find the support you should have in the thread on gifted kids in the SN forum.


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## Yo Becca (Apr 17, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AddysMama*
as a mommy i have(just as all mommies should) a right to be proud of and want to share Addys acomplishments, and i shouldnt have to hold them back beause someones feelings might get hurt because their child isnt doing the same thing.
.... is it so much to ask for that in return instead of hostility?


Well, you did ask our opinions - I'm not offering any hostility, but do have an opinion. I've appreciated and learned new perspectives from other folks responses - but it sounds like you just want us to tell you you're right.

My perspective: I was a really smart, gifted kid. Smartest kid in all my classes, youngest too b/c I was too smart to get held back for a late birthday, etc. etc. My mom LOVED that I was so smart and loved to brag about my academic acheivements. While I enjoyed knowing that she was proud of me, I HATED that she talked about it so much. a) it made my personal accomplishments everybody's business, b) it made me feel like the only thing of value I had to offer was my brain, and c) i felt like the other kids/peers around were left out of this special treatment. I then felt like I had to be self-deprecating or change the mood b/c I didn't want the other kids (including my own siblings, cousins, etc.) to feel like they were less special than me. I was embarassed and took it as my responsibility to make every thing OK for the other kids. Especially b/c I have a brother with severe learning disabilities and a sister with emotional problems who was academically average. They weren't musical, artistic or athletic - so their acheivements were never as notable as mine. I hated it when people pointed out my sucesses and my sibling didn't get celebrated as well. I would have much prefered it if my mom praised me privately and let my actions and acheivements speak for themselves publically.

As an adult and a teacher, I now know that braininess only means so much. Some of the students I have respected the most are not necessarily the smartest, but the hardest working, most creative, most interesting, most dedicated, most sincere, etc. ANd some of the students I have found to be the biggest pains in the butts are the smart kids who think they can coast by on IQ or fancy vocabularies (these are also the kids most lkely to have a mommy or daddy swoop in and defend them in all situations rather than letting htem solve their own problems)

As a parent of a bright, fun, beautiful almost 15 month old, I feel like at this point any developmental milestones are exciting and wonderful, but not necessarily indicative of how she'll continue to develop her whole life. And just like I don't want my daughter rewarded for her appearance, an accident of birth, I also don't want her basing her self-worth on her brain by itself. Because what if in a few years it turns out she has a reading problem? or a math block? If she knows I am so proud of her smarts, what will she think if those smarts aren't so exciting anymore? I want to reward and praise her based on her EFFORTS, not her gifts.

I gush on and on to my mom about my DD, and my MIL - they are grandmas and they love to hear about her acheivements. I'll even gush to my childless friends or online folks. But with other moms, I try not to point out her vocab or all her cute little quirks so as to avoid comparisons. and you know what, they notice them on their own. Just like I notice and celebrate their kids acheivements.

Celebrate away - just be mindful of where, why and with whom. Put yourself in the other perspective - if your child was developmentally behind his peers and a friend with a same-aged child gushed on about her advanced child's achievements, you would feel slighted too - b/c obviously the speaker bases her evaluations and pride on an area in which your child lags. That's just reality, and to refuse to accept it is insensitive.


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## urklemama (May 4, 2003)

I have a slightly above-average-verbally 28mo, and my best mommy friend has three children with moderate to severe learning disabilities. She comes right out and says, "it really bothers me that you have a toddler who can tell you what he wants when mine would just scream with frustration." Wouldn't it be fantastic if everyone took responsibility for their own issues like that.


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## TortelliniMama (Mar 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *urklemama*
I have a slightly above-average-verbally 28mo, and my best mommy friend has three children with moderate to severe learning disabilities. She comes right out and says, "it really bothers me that you have a toddler who can tell you what he wants when mine would just scream with frustration." Wouldn't it be fantastic if everyone took responsibility for their own issues like that.

Their own issues?! Wouldn't it be fantastic if our friends had enough insight to realize that seeing our children struggle and fail in areas in which other children have no difficulty is likely to bother us, without it being viewed as a failing on our parts?

Having read the OPs explanation of her online situation, I totally agree that it seems unfair that everyone else on the other board feels free to post their children's accomplishments while the OP is scolded for sharing hers. However, I'm having a hard time with the attitude displayed in other posts of "why can't everyone just be happy for me?" Because they're hurting? Because they're scared? Because they're just not that interested in hearing about your child?

I know that we all love to share those wonderful stories that show how amazing our kids are. That doesn't mean we have to share them with everyone in the world, though. As PPs have suggested, relatives (especially those without similarly-aged kids), childless friends or those without kids of the same age, and other parents who seem happy to hear your stories are a great audience. But if someone seems put-off, pained, or just not thrilled to hear your stories, why is it such an imposition to stop telling them? Are you hoping to win those people over to beaming admiration of your child? Are you hoping to hear, "Wow, you know, your kid really *is* better than mine!"

Telling the stories to everyone doesn't make your child any more amazing or any more cherished. Not telling them to those who don't seem to want to hear them doesn't diminish your child's accomplishments or your love for him/her. It just avoids throwing salt in some very deep wounds.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Quote:

Wouldn't it be fantastic if everyone took responsibility for their own issues like that.








um, _issues_?

Quote:

Wouldn't it be fantastic if our friends had enough insight to realize that seeing our children struggle and fail in areas in which other children have no difficulty is likely to bother us, without it being viewed as a failing on our parts?








:


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## Jade2561 (Jun 12, 2005)

I also think that people interpret the way their child acts, their intelligence, and even motor skills with how well they parent. Surely when you have a verbally advanced toddler you think that as a parent YOU have at least something to do with it.

I think that when people hear about children that are more advanced than their child they do in way think that maybe if they were parenting "better" their child would be on the same level. Do I feel like this sometimes - sure and my beautiful babe is pretty average in terms of intelligence; so I can't imagine how hard it must be for a parent of a slow child. I remember talking about this with another mom once. She was a close friend and her daughter walked way later than dd and she would say things like, "What am I doing wrong?" She truly thought it was a parenting issue.

I think in saying that your dd is really smart and pointing out how advanced she is, people may get the impression that "I'm a better parent than you because my dd does this, this, and this." Just my 2 cents. I do think you should brag to family members and close friends; but otherwise your daughter will speak for herself (quite, literally in fact). When they see how advanced she is they can take note and you don't have to worry about bragging.


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## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GeezerMom*
Because wanting to watch football w/Daddy is a normal bonding experience for little boys, whereas memorizing flash cards w/Mommy will get your lunch money stolen.

I hope I'm just missing the underlying sarcasm here due to sleep deprivation...


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Jade2561*
I also think that people interpret the way their child acts, their intelligence, and even motor skills with how well they parent. Surely when you have a verbally advanced toddler you think that as a parent YOU have at least something to do with it.

Ok, I think this is often true. There's a lady in my child's class who has had issues with my ds1's drawings and writing for over a year. I used to get so angry at her, because I wasn't calling attention to anything and she was the one making it an issue. And then, she criticizes her son's art or tells him how to do it. It upsets me. And then yesterday, she talked about it to me *again*, but she was telling me how her son has "finally" (she said) stopped scribbling and has moved into representational art, so he was "doing better". And it was clear at that moment, from her expression and her tone of voice that she was worried! I had never seen it from that angle; I was only seeing her competitiveness and knew that I didn't want competition.

I feel like a lightswitch was thrown. She was worried about her son's development, even thought it was completely age-appropriate. And she was "working" so hard with him (in the form of pressure) that she didn't understand why it was "working" for someone else and not for her. She didn't see it as an issue of individual child development, rather parenting success and that worried her. I didn't know what to say, so I said something lame about how it's so interesting how their scribbles look so intricate if you really scrutinize them and how you can see the evolution in scribbling from one month to another. I said that scribbling was a very important pre-writing skill.

But she is going to keep having issues, because she's comparing her child to other children and no two children are alike. I can't compare my ds1 to other children, because he will always be slower and less agile. He was always fall off the hanging monkey bar things (i.e. not be able to cross over). But it's right for him. I can see the progress in his individual development and I know that what isn't a big deal for the very athletic child or even most 4yos is a big deal for him. You can't look at other kids or it will drive you nuts and possibly cause you to view your child in a way that is unfair to him/her.

People often seem to accuse the parent of the "advanced" child of comparing children, simply because they cannot help but notice that their child is doing something unusual. But people don't seem to feel this ire against the parents of the other children who react defensively, who are usually the ones doing the comparing and trying to measure their child based on what others so. People want to warn the parent of the advanced child not to let pressure build, but they don't say anything to the parents of the other children about the pressure that comes from using the development of other kids as a benchmark for their own. I feel like a scapegoat is often made, when, in reality, many many people are comparing children and therefore run the risk of pressure/unrealistic expectations. I think we all need to remind ourselves that age appropriate development can be ascertained from checklists, not from what other people's kids are doing and that they all have their own special talents.


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teachma*
I hope I'm just missing the underlying sarcasm here due to sleep deprivation...

I had to reread that a few times. And don't let them cry either, because kids at school don't like a pansy. I, personally, start the masculinity training as early as 6 months, because I don't want my little man to be ridiculed. Don't spend too much meaningful time with your sons, because no one likes a Mama's boy. Ok, that was sarcasm.

The same lady that I referenced in a previous post publicly freaked, because I 'let" my 3yo son wear pink butterfly wings during dress-up time. She and her dh told their son he couldn't, because you know, it's important to train them to act masculine asap.

And now back to the OP, sorry!


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## GeezerMom (Apr 7, 2005)

Really, I wasn't being sarcastic - what's so bad about a little boy watching football w/his father, who has a passion for it? Let the Dad have some influence.

You know, Addy - I have to tell you - when a Mommy expresses pride in her child for being REALLY smart, but doesn't capitalize or break her paragraphs, and can't spell -- it leaves a negative impression.

In a written forum, being able to write coherently helps "build" your case.


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

I don't think there's anything wrong with a little boy watching football OR doing stuff with Mommy. I think that in that case, the little boy should be allowed to do what he wants, regardless of gender stereotyping. So, if he loves football, he should be allowed to watch it. But I guess I don't see it as being related to the father having influence and the whole masculinity thing. I think boys should be allowed to follow their passions, whether that's football or cross-stitching. I mean, if the Mom is making him do flash-cards when he'd rather do something else, then I think that's a shame altogether. But the bit about getting lunch money stolen seemed to indicate that it was better to follow masculine pursuits, rather than following one's own pursuits. My boys like football and the cooking channel. They like their trucks and their dolls. I don't care what the kids at school think about that and I hope they don't either.


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## GeezerMom (Apr 7, 2005)

I thought the lunch money stolen part was a funny way of extending the metaphor - I could just picture a Mommy so obsessed with her child's performance that she runs the roost with an iron fist. "Get away from that TV! Memorize these flashcards!"

Well, kids who grow up in a bullying environment will be victims elsewhere, no? We know that kids who watch their mothers being abused go on to repeat the behavior themselves.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lckrause*
To the OP: you may want to check out the Gifted Children thread in Special Needs. You can "brag" away there without fear.










Yup.

Sometimes people just want to share. Nothing wrong with it. People often think you're snotty if you discuss particular things about your kids. There really is a big difference in experiences for families with kids on the polars. Average is accceptable and anything else in either direction is not. The difference is that if your kid is 'less developed' peope will hug you, feel sorry for you and feel blessed they aren't you. If your kid is the one who throws off the intelligence curve, you must be a snob who only wants to advance your own kid at the expense of others feelings.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

People want to warn the parent of the advanced child not to let pressure build, but they don't say anything to the parents of the other children about the pressure that comes from using the development of other kids as a benchmark for their own. I feel like a scapegoat is often made, when, in reality, many many people are comparing children and therefore run the risk of pressure/unrealistic expectations. I think we all need to remind ourselves that age appropriate development can be ascertained from checklists, not from what other people's kids are doing and that they all have their own special talents.








:

My daughter is precocious in many ways. I hardly ever talk about it to other moms of toddlers--BUT many of them talk about it to me in a way that makes it clear that they are comparing their child to mine.

"Wow, my Janey can't do that!" "Bobby doesn't know that at all." "Susie just grunts all the time."

Sometimes it is meant in a friendly way--other times, it feels more anxious on their part. I have no idea what to do in this situation. I know from my own reading that their kids are on track developmentally and that my daughter is unusually ahead, but I don't feel very good coming out and saying that. I usually end up pointing out the ways in which my daughter is "slower" than their child (large motor skills, usually). It works, but I wish we didn't have to go there in the first place.


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## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GeezerMom*

You know, Addy - I have to tell you - when a Mommy expresses pride in her child for being REALLY smart, but doesn't capitalize or break her paragraphs, and can't spell -- it leaves a negative impression.

In a written forum, being able to write coherently helps "build" your case.

Your last statement might be true if the OP came to discuss her own intelligence, but the thread is about her daughter. Criticizing the OP in an off-topic way because you disagree with the ideas she's expressing seems immature and out of place to me. This seems like a blatant ad hominem attack.


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## UUMom (Nov 14, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teachma*
This seems like a blatant ad hominem attack.

I appreciate *anyone* who understands what an ad hominem attack is.









Wish that others did.

Btw-- I am a terrible typist and speller at times. So I can relate to that as well.


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teachma*
Your last statement might be true if the OP came to discuss her own intelligence, but the thread is about her daughter. Criticizing the OP in an off-topic way because you disagree with the ideas she's expressing seems immature and out of place to me. This seems like a blatant ad hominem attack.

Well said!


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## GeezerMom (Apr 7, 2005)

No, I'm just suggesting that part of the reason she's drawing ire in other fora is because of how she expresses herself.

Honestly, I couldn't wade through her most recent post b/c of how poorly it's written.

And a couple of posters have made remarks regarding the nature of written expression, so my criticism is hardly off-topic.

I don't know this poster, or her dd, and have no reason to wish either of them ill, but badly written posts are often irritating. Particularly when the subject is intelligence!


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## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GeezerMom*
No, I'm just suggesting that part of the reason she's drawing ire in other fora is because of how she expresses herself.

Honestly, I couldn't wade through her most recent post b/c of how poorly it's written.

And a couple of posters have made remarks regarding the nature of written expression, so my criticism is hardly off-topic.

I don't know this poster, or her dd, and have no reason to wish either of them ill, but badly written posts are often irritating. Particularly when the subject is intelligence!


And I'm just suggesting that your critique of the OP's grammar, punctuation and spelling should be irrelevant to the topic at hand. I often run across threads in Talk Amongst Ourselves in which people air their gripes about these issues; that's a more appropriate forum for when you feel the need to discuss the importance of proper written expression in others' posts. I think, actually, that your remarks ironically reflect the judgmental attitude expressed by the OP.


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## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *UUMom*
I appreciate *anyone* who understands what an ad hominem attack is.









Philosophy major...







:


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## GeezerMom (Apr 7, 2005)

Could be - or I might be dead-on-balls right. What we've interpreted as a difference in parenting philosophies might well be a simple matter of irritation. "My child be teh smartz" is really annoying (as in, how on earth would you be able to recognize it?). And in this case, specifically, it's not a matter of a few typos, either.

Same thing w/homeschooling - I've wondered if some posters' families' objections had less to do with educational philosophies, and more to do with a Mom who can't string three words together herself taking on the role of educator.

It's not like I brought this up right off the bat - we are on page 5 for cryin' out loud. It's been a fascinating thread, posters have covered a lot of areas - surely we're adult enough to discuss this as well.


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## Dechen (Apr 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GeezerMom*
"My child be teh smartz"

I don't think there is an emoticon to express how loudly that made me laugh. I think my neighbors may be alarmed. I am going to borrow that, if you don't mind.

GeezerMom is not saying the OP is stupid. The OP started a thread on how she is received in online message boards, and GeezerMom is pointing out what may or may not be a part of how people react to her. People judge each other on their writing skills. We can debate how appropriate that is, but it happens.

There is a difference between sharing and bragging. Bragging is best reserved to family members and people we know are ok with it. The Gifted thread is one example of an appropriate place for bragging.

I think we have a few issues to tease apart. The first is the difference between bragging and sharing. Another is the sad fact that insecure people will attack people in order to give themselves comfort. In fact, I think people who single out advanced children for disdain, and people who brag excessively both share something in common - insecurity.


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## Kincaid (Feb 12, 2004)

I don't think GeezerMom was out of left field, or being snarky. It's a point that I was also thinking but did not know how to articulate nicely.
It was this statement by the OP:

Quote:

i too was a very gifted child. was reading before three, having full conversations with adults by 2 and by kindergarten was doing addition and subtraction as well as writing short stories when other kids were just learning to write their names. and i too got alot of pressure on me, from my parents, from my teachers, from everyone i came in contact with. hell, lets just say the word potential and i dont get along very well because of school.
Poor grammar and typos in some of the posts aside.... really, my heart goes out to this mom. It seems to me she was raised with the kind of performance-related pressure that we warn her that this kind of "praise" will impress upon her own child. You will note the same superlatives she uses to describe herself - not just gifted, but very gifted. The example where she was not just advanced, but so far above "when other kids were JUST learning XYZ". This to me is over the top comparison and a kind of insecure way of saying "I am worthy, I am valuable."

It is so relevant that she admits the pressure and unhappiness of her childhood related to her giftedness. Interesting how this comes out in the same breath where (IMHO) she is setting her child up for the same unhappiness - with the intense focus on her child's "giftedness" at only 16 MONTHS.

I want the OP to know that I too was raised in this kind of pressure-cooker, it is a legacy passed down in some families. I was taking the ACT at 8 years of age and was sent to Duke University at 9 years. I struggle with living to please/impress others to feel loved and worthy as a person. It is a sickness, having your validation by your ability to not just achieve, but OVER achieve.

Please, momma, there are some wonderful books on perfectionism and the "disease to please." Maybe this is way off base, and I apologize, but if you are open to it I can show you some interesting stuff from developmentalists on how even subtle language from parents can set a kid up for a lifetime of stress and self-worth issues. And it happens innocently, from GOOD, loving parents who only want the best for their kids.

(hugs along with this, in case the words sting I am sorry)

Edited to add:
And I think you are a cool, worthy, interesting, valuable, SPECIAL person no matter how gifted you were or are. That doesn't matter. All of us deserve to be highly valued just because we have a soul!


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

Kincaid there's a lot of wisdom in what you just said.


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## Vicitoria (Dec 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teachma*
But, is your friend's child happy or miserable? And why should it be annoying that parents work hard to teach their children? As a public school teacher, I find it more annoying that so many parents take such little interest in their children's education! If a child is receptive to the parent's teaching, I say, Go for it! After all, the parent clearly has a better understanding of who her child is (as a learner and a whole child) than a teacher who knows the kid for less than one year and only several hours at a time. Why is it okay only if the child initiates it?


I think that there is a time and place for everything and perhaps a little boy should be allowed to watch football with his dad. I also think that kids should be allowed to be kids. Developmental milestones happen naturally, or at least I think they should. For example: If at 18 months your child should be able to stack 4 or 6 blocks - what if they don't have blocks? I've just watched developmental milestones happen with my son, I haven't coached him in them. I whole heartedly agree that parents need to teach their children but I don't think a 18 month old HAS to know the alphabet, numbers or colors. I think they will hit a natural developmental milestone where their ability to learn these things will be much easier than constant repetition for the sake of wanting to teach things earlier than necessary. This thread is about gifted children. That is definitely different then the norm. That is the way a child is born. I think it has little to do with how they are raised. For the majority of kids that have average IQ's I think the ones that aren't drilled earlier will easily catch up to the ones that were and it will all equal out.


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## Vicitoria (Dec 17, 2004)

Wow there is a lot going on in this thread. I've skimmed a lot of this but some of the stuff that really hit me was people talking about tones and sarcasm and reactions. That's just part of participating in a forum like this. It get's a little lively. I hope no one takes too much personally. I don't think anyone is out to hurt any one in anyway. There is a lot of letting off steams and opinions and things to go off on tangents. Once it's out there it takes on a life of it's own. To those who do take it personally







that's OK too.


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## mamaley (Mar 18, 2002)

I think I read the OP differently than a lot of other people. Our society values intelligence so much, and I think when mamas of "gifted" kids talk about their children, people see it as bragging and they don't recognize that there is a whole set of challenges and concerns that come with having a gifted child. I'm not a mom of a "gifted" child (although, of course, I think they're extremely gifted, like all mothers do, lol)...in fact, I had a son who had a lot of trouble with talking until he was over 4, and I still don't see the OP as bragging. I have to wonder what it is that makes people so defensive about the children when people talk about this subject.

Just my 2 cents...


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## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaley*
I think I read the OP differently than a lot of other people. Our society values intelligence so much, and I think when mamas of "gifted" kids talk about their children, people see it as bragging and they don't recognize that there is a whole set of challenges and concerns that come with having a gifted child. I'm not a mom of a "gifted" child (although, of course, I think they're extremely gifted, like all mothers do, lol)...in fact, I had a son who had a lot of trouble with talking until he was over 4, and I still don't see the OP as bragging. I have to wonder what it is that makes people so defensive about the children when people talk about this subject.

Just my 2 cents...

I think this is a lovely, wonderful sentiment. mamaley, you are clearly very secure in your parenting choices as well as your children's strengths and abilities. As a mom of one gifted child, I can say with absolute honesty, I do not feel his "giftedness" makes him better than anyone in any way, and as you acknowledge, there is a set of concerns that often comes along with giftedness (we deal with many in our home) which, if many people were more aware, sometimes makes giftdness seem like an incredibly challenging condition to cope with...







So, while it is true that parents of gifted children may have reasons to feel proud/impressed by our kids, please be aware that we often have many reasons to vent and seek support. If the OPs chiild does turn out to be gifted, she will hopefully deal with fewer of these related issues than our family does.


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## Vicitoria (Dec 17, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamaley*
I think I read the OP differently than a lot of other people. Our society values intelligence so much, and I think when mamas of "gifted" kids talk about their children, people see it as bragging and they don't recognize that there is a whole set of challenges and concerns that come with having a gifted child.

This is a very good thought. (sorry if I've taken anything out of context.) I think society as a whole does value intelligence. Or, to take it one step further - I think society values hard evidence of percieved intelligence. (if that makes sense) It's like No Child Left Behind - let's make sure we all look good on paper regardless of what actually is. We want our children to be really smart or at least appear really smart so we can fit into that mold. (That's extremely un-AP in my opinion and that's what makes this thread so interesting to me.) I think we also have to realize we are talking about academically gifted people in this context as well. Creativity in art and other outlets are also signs of intelligence. I know this thought is a bit off from what mamaley said but maybe not - if you have a truly gifted child - a genius - you have the challenges of honoring that in your child and doing your best with it. I don't think it's something I could handle. My brain just doesn't work that way, I'd be overwhelmed by my child because he'd be smarter then me! On the other hand - if you are trying to fit into the mold society wants so many to fill and you try to make your child "gifted" or more "intelligent" then they are by teaching them to recite the alphabet or memorize their colors etc... before they are ready you are setting yourself up for un-needed challenges like your child rebelling against you because they aren't ready for what they are being forced to do.

But, ahem, we are AP-minded parents and we honor our child and every child for who they are and follow their lead in taking action to help them grow.


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Vicitoria*
I know this thought is a bit off from what mamaley said but maybe not - if you have a truly gifted child - a genius - you have the challenges of honoring that in your child and doing your best with it. I don't think it's something I could handle. My brain just doesn't work that way, I'd be overwhelmed by my child because he'd be smarter then me!

Ok, I'm just saying this for clarification and educational purposes. These are things that I never knew either until not that long ago.

There are many challenges to having a gifted child. First, there's usually an issue of asynchronous development. Like, some children will advance in specific intellectual areas to the neglect of others. You might have a very sedentary 1yo who is still behind in gross motor skills years later, simply because his brain was dedicating resources to other things. Sometimes, the kids can intellectually grasp things that are beyond typical for their age, like death, but their ability to emotionally deal with that is normal so they can be very anxious or act in ways that appear immature. It's not a cut and dried thing of being "smarter", rather an issue of them developing asynchronously; they have multiple rates of development that are not consistent with their chronological age. People see the "smart" side, but they are not often aware of the issue of multiple points of development. The 5 year old child can be 12 in some situations, 2 in others, 5 in others, etc.

Second, there are a range of possible issues that tie in with giftedness. Sensory isssues are not uncommon. There can be anxiety, extreme self-imposed perfectionism, obsessive tendencies and others...

Third, the kids often notice that they are different from their peers. They notice that their peers don't like playing the same games or talking about the same things, for example. They may turn that observation on its head to self-criticism or to "hiding" techniques to blend. There's a whole possible can of worms that can come with that.

And then, as noted a few times in this thread, there are issues from other parents when those parents call the child out on something he/she has done or act snarky/defensive when they notice the child is doing something advanced or quiz the parent of the child on how/why the child is like that. There are assumptions made that the parent is pushing the child at home or basically responsible for the child just being him/herself. Sometimes, you can be perfectly silent and your child can be quietly doing his thing, but people notice it and then they react defensively or in mean-spirited way in front of the child.

Anyway, I just wanted to share some of the challenges that can be present in having a gifted child. It's not a prize or a cake-walk or a superior way of existing. It's simply another way of existing, another way of being born, with good and bad like everything else. It is just an issue of honoring the child, but like we all find with all our kids, there are challenges. I just wanted to share what I've learned about those challenges. Thank you for listening.


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## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

Very interesting thread. Thank you Kincaid and Left Field. I was a gifted child and HATED it when my mom bragged about it. (Yes, to me it felt like bragging although I'm sure that is not how she saw it.) Right now, as the mother of a gifted four-year-old, I am most interested in learning how to handle the challenges of having a gifted (verbally and intellectually) child. I'm definitely finding the asynchronous development a challenge for him socially, now that he is in preschool. I have not pushed academics at all with him. He doesn't even recognize all his letters and numbers just because I only believe in responding to his initiative in those areas. I remember the discomfort when I was four and my mom would show off to her friends how I could multiply with beads or read. I think that early academic learning just made it harder to be gifted, because I had already mastered things and got bored easier. Also, I think the early academics probably also left less room for other types of development: physical, social, creative. I think that whenever we praise, overvalue, overemphasize certain aspects of our children's development, we set them up to be less holistically who they are.

One last aside: I've found this thread much more interesting than the gifted children thread, because there seems to be way too much celebrating/bragging there for my taste. Does anyone have any suggestions of other helpful threads/resources? Or should we start a thread to discuss the challenges of raising intellectually gifted children? Also any suggestions of relevant books? Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread, but I would appreciate input from some of the posters here.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

What has bothered me the most about this thread, and the gifted children support thread, is the overwhelming emphasis on extremely young babies and toddlers. The resulting expectations, assumptions and implications can hurt so many people. I'm sorry, but a verbally precocious toddler does not equal a gifted child. I had to first attempt to temper the grandparents' response to our little girl, who, as I said earlier, just likes to talk; then, I had to assure them that subsequent grandchildren were perfectly normal, even if their language skills didn't seem as advanced--and it was horrible to find a realistic balance within people who had already developed inflated expectations--based on a BABY. So many of the things described here and on the other thread are simply a different rate of development, not relating to a level of extraordinary intellect at all. Some of the milestones are actually right on target, not advanced at all--and parents should, rightly, celebrate those milestones regardless of when they occur. But they shouldn't hang an inaccurate, heavy label around a toddler's neck.


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## Annikate (Aug 2, 2005)

Quote:

Originally Posted by *LeftField*
Sometimes, you can be perfectly silent and your child can be quietly doing his thing, but people notice it and then they react defensively or in mean-spirited way in front of the child.
Yes, I've experienced this. (The "hurt" feelings can work both ways yk?)

Quote:

Anyway, I just wanted to share some of the challenges that can be present in having a gifted child. It's not a prize or a cake-walk or a superior way of existing. It's simply another way of existing, another way of being born, with good and bad like everything else. It is just an issue of honoring the child, but like we all find with all our kids, there are challenges. I just wanted to share what I've learned about those challenges. Thank you for listening.
I have been following this thread and I, for one, thank you for pointing this out.


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## Ellien C (Aug 19, 2004)

Harmony mama - not about giftedness, but you're familiar with Alfie Kohn and his writings on praise, right? If not, check it out - you would like it.

Kincaid - Ugh! and Wow! What a life.
I had this moment of mommy anxiety imagining I might have a kid like you. Our daughter was perfect and I guess my hormones kicked-in and I needed something to worry about. DH and I are pretty bright, but we graduated with our peer groups, not like college at 9 smart. I asked him, what will we do if she's smart - like really, really smart? Would we send her to college in childhood? He just looked at me said it was highly unlikely, but we'd deal with whatever issues we had when they came up. I think I must have needed something to worry about and that was all my brain could manufacture.

DD is a quite normal 2 yo who enjoys words. I find it's useful for me to NOT know developmental milestones. Then I can't compare my DD or get a big head myself. Things have also eased-up for me when I changed her day cares. Her last DC kept telling me how smart they thought she was (meanwhile, I'm like, who can tell in an 18 mo?). Her new day care has never said that to me and I think it's better they aren't all going around labeling kids. They talk about her strengths - words, language - and what she needs to improve upon - sharing, etc. Usual toddler stuff.

Missy, ITA.
I found that reading the G&T threads invited me to start comparing and quantifying my daughters skills. I mean, it's kind of weird to count up how many words your kid knows, if it's more than 12, ya know? A neighbor mom, who has a toddler 2 months older than my girl, once remarked to me "Wow, that was a 6-word sentence!" And I thought it was so weird that she counted how many words DC used. I couldn't have told someone that about my own kid (and sitll can't). I'm happy to say, I didn't file away in my brain how old my girl when she made that remark. I find myself happier when I just revel in talking to her, not when I quantify what she does.


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

See, I'm not so concerned about people using the "gifted" label. I am curious about people spending their limited online time to silently lurk on gifted lists, evaluate which reported milestones are avg vs advanced, contemplate the sad state of gifted labels today, form judgements about those people, lament the quality of their kids' home-life and future, and then post about it on a message board. To me, that possibly indicates that the topic has some inner importance to the parent and I worry about the pressure that could arise from that which could be conveyed to their toddlers. Seriously, if it makes you feel like a great parent to cluck your tongue at people putting a "heavy" gifted label on their child, that's fine. But I guess I don't understand why you care so much and why you are devoting your limited time to assessing it.

Several people have tried to explain some of the related issues, but I guess I give up. I think minds are made up and if it makes you feel like your kids have it better, then whatever.

I don't have any bad feelings, but I guess I give up trying to cast some light on the subject.

Peace to you and yours...


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## GeezerMom (Apr 7, 2005)

So, *LeftField*.....I take it to mean you won't be recommending which flashcards are most effective?








just teasing - I think you're absolutely correct in describing the challenges of being (conventionally) "gifted". All of those issues were huge hurdles for me. Being "smarter" isn't necessarily an asset, not when it creates so much isolation, criticism and conflict. My Husband and I agreed when I was pregnant that, for our twins, we'd gladly trade a few IQ points for social and athletic abilities. So far that seems to be how it's working.

You guys should watch the movie _Parenthood_. Concentrate on the Rick Moranis character.

Or _Little Man Tate_.


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## Mary (Nov 19, 2001)

I agree that we cannot control other people's reactions when it comes to our children's accomplishments, but I find that when I discuss my son's accomplishments when they are way ahead of the norm, it just does not feel right to me. I do feel like I'm rubbing it in, even when I'm not. So the people that I do share with are ones that will be truly happy with my sons' accomplishments and who will not use it as a measuring stick for their own child. So I share with grandparents.

Is it frustrating? You betcha! When I realized that my son knew his colors and most letters at 18 months I was excited and immediately called his grandparents. When he started reading I wanted to shout it from the rooftops! When my youngest pottylearned at 22 months I was elated and would have offered up the story to the evening news if there had been an interest!

My sons are very sharp, probably gifted, but so far I do not find it to be anything but wonderful. I do worry about the special challenges that it could present like perfectionism (which is a bit of an issue already), boredom in school, feeling socially isolated, etc. but I will take those issues as they come. The hardest thing I guess is holding back from bragging about them! That is very hard to do as a mom. My own experience plays into it too- I certainly don't want them to go down the same road I went down.

Also, I don't want my children to feel that their worth is tied into their accomplishments/intelligence. They are special and worthy of love no matter what.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Oh good heavenly beans







I lurked for the same reason most sane people lurk in a forum--to see what it would offer me or my family. I step in there occasionally because I do have a CHILD, beyond toddler years, who has been defined as "gifted" and sometimes presents challenges, but then I read some of the threads and figure he probably wouldn't fit in anyway because, well, he just wasn't the conversationalist my daughter was at 12 months and where her supposed brilliance took a side trip towards the arts, his growth took off in a more traditionally "gifted" direction. But the focus is so largely on children under three, who develop at vastly different rates anyway, that I don't see much point in lingering. And, really, after years of teaching in special ed (and yes, truly gifted children fall under the special ed umbrella), it doesn't take much in-depth evaluation to determine average vs. above vs. precocious vs. gifted. I've also learned that, since we now homeschool, the label means zippo. It has been pointed out repeatedly on this thread that assuming a baby who hits a few milestones ahead of others is "gifted" is an unfair assertion--not unfair to the parents of other children, but unfair to the baby. It's funny that _some_ of the same parents who have claimed to have been tortured with high expectations because they were gifted are insisting on repeating the cycle.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't there an MDC policy that discourages talking about other group threads (especially those for support) in a different thread?

Maybe you have a bright or gifted child but don't feel like you need to talk about it or discuss it with others. That's fine, of course. But to cast aspersions on others who do--to say that they're doing their children a misservice, or being deluded, and not just in general terms, but while specifically referencing another thread here? I think it's out of line.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

I'm not talking about specific posts or posters, just a general observation about why it concerns me; I was not the first one to bring up the topic or to reference the thread beyond simply mentioning that it exists (at least one other pp mentioned similar observations) and I would never post anything on the thread to detract from the participants. I was accused of mindlessly lurking, when, in truth, I was there for a reason. I will certainly never mention it again.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

And I think I'll just quote Kincaid from here on out...

Quote:

It is so relevant that she admits the pressure and unhappiness of her childhood related to her giftedness. Interesting how this comes out in the same breath where (IMHO) she is setting her child up for the same unhappiness - with the intense focus on her child's "giftedness" at only 16 MONTHS.
and

Quote:

It seems to me she was raised with the kind of performance-related pressure that we warn her that this kind of "praise" will impress upon her own child. You will note the same superlatives she uses to describe herself - not just gifted, but very gifted. The example where she was not just advanced, but so far above "when other kids were JUST learning XYZ". This to me is over the top comparison and a kind of insecure way of saying "I am worthy, I am valuable."
and, m9m9m9's comment still offers a lot of wisdom

Quote:

So i have to ask you, when you posted this type of question on the other sites did anyone reply and say 'gee no, my kid is dumb as dirt, lucky you, you got a good one!'


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## BookGoddess (Nov 6, 2005)

This is a very interesting discussion especially for a new mama like me. I'm not sure the OP expected the thread to get this long but that's what happens when you ask for an opinion from a group of experienced and wise mamas.








I was considered gifted when I was a child. I could read before I was 3. I spoke in complete senteces as opposed to my younger brother (1 year apart) who didn't speak until he was well over 2 years of age. He was held back a year because he was developmentally slow whereas I skipped a grade in elementary school at the request of my teachers. I also beat out 5,000 other children in an international essay contest.









But you know what? You can't tell that I was gifted as a child if you look at me today.







I'm perfectly average in most respects. I didn't turn out to be a Nobel Prize Winner. I didn't go to Harvard Medical School. I didn't find a cure for cancer. I went to our local state university on a scholarship and then to graduate school. I have a good job but so do a lot of other people who went to elementary school with me who were considered "average". And my brother who was considered slower than I was actually has an even better job than I do and makes more money. I am not saying having a great job and making a lot of money indicate success in life. Absolutely not. But society uses those two, among other things, to gauge if someone is "successful" or not and by those two standards my brother has accomplished more than I have.

I'm not child development expert but I've done my fair share of babysitting. Very young children show incredible competencies in some areas and lag behind in other areas. There's nothing wrong with it. No one progresses equally on all areas (mental, physical, emotional, etc.).

My daughter is an infant but when she grows up I want to be the kind of parent that praises the effort behind a solid "C" as well as the straight A's. I want her to feel loved for herself not just her accomplishments.


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Well, I'm reading the quotes from Kincaid and I'm only see one person's experience. I'm not really seeing how it's particularly relevant to the fact that some kids are gifted or the fact that some parents identify possible giftedness early on. Some parents pressure their kids. Some praise them too much. Where I live, most of the parents I've met in Gymboree or at the Science Center are excessively praising their kids, micro-managing their work or play, and pitting them against other kids (like mine). They're not calling their children, "gifted", but they sure are tying their self-worth to the parental approval and values. Meanwhile, I don't praise or pressure or talk about intelligence to my kids. What I say online is not a dialogue with my children; it's my inner thoughts or my conversations with others who have the same issues.

I see posts all the time about "spirited" kids and all the books you can read about them, the issues that go with it, and the BTDT of others with so called "spirited" kids. That's a label, but it's politically correct. Do those people tell their child, "You're spirited."? Do they limit their children based on the label they've chosen for them? What about "shy" or "creative" or "athletic"?

A label is just a word. MDC is teeming with use of labels. A word cannot hurt my child. It's how I act on that word that can hurt him. And yet, in my interactions with other parents, the ones who aren't using these labels, those parents are all about "GOOD for you!! Good job!!" or "Paint it like this!" or "Why don't you draw a rainbow?", blah blah blah. You don't need a label to limit a child and using a label doesn't necessarily cause limiting. If it does, oh well, we all are doing it, because everyone uses labels. Labels are descriptors.

And yet, whether or not I choose to use a label in my online conversations or with others IRL, it does not make my son gifted or not gifted. I can avoid that label, but it doesn't make any giftedness go away. I can label him "gifted" and it wouldn't make him gifted. Whether or not I'm brave enough to identify with a useful descriptor doesn't change how my son was born.

I read these angry gifted stories, the stories of adults who were identified as "gifted" and subsequently pressured. And I feel sad for them that they had to go through that. But I don't see the relevance to the "gifted" label. Instead, I see parental values, biases and expectations, all of which come from somewhere inside that parent. I am not highly gifted and was never the top performer in school, yet my father would tell me, "All I want you to do is your best. *However*, I know that your best is an 'A'. All you have to do is study the night before and you can get a 100." THAT was pressure and it had nothing to do with the word, "gifted", a word that didn't even exist in my personal universe. People don't pressure and over-praise their kids because they are gifted. They pressure and over-praise them, because they are competitive people who live through their kids. Anyone can do that, unfortunately. And I see it everyday in mainstream world.


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## Kirsten (Mar 19, 2002)

"Anyone have a REALLY smart 16 month old?"

Nope, you're the only one.

Sorry, just the first response that came to mind. Guess I'm snarky today. I can see where you find a lot of resistance to bragging about your child. EVERYONE thinks their kids are brilliant/wonderful/advanced in whatever various ways. Talk her all up to your mom or MIL - grammas love that type of thing. Everyone else - not so much.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Uh, it's really not about the specific label. I could slap a "gifted" label on my dog and it wouldn't mean anything; it's about the expectations that come with the labels. It's about placing high expectations on one child and calling another one "developmentally below" long before anyone can really tell where they're going to be in five years. Kincaid made some excellent points completely separate from her own experience. The "gifted" label, used appropriately, at an appropriate age, in an appropriate setting, is as PC as "spirited". And, honestly, an extraordinarily "athletic" or "creative" child deserves the gifted label as much as a three year old who can multiply.


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AddysMama*
my dd Addy is 16 months old, or will be on the 15th, and is super smart. she knows(i mean KNOWS) and says over 175 words, and knows(again, KNOWS) and can sign over 50 signs, and she learns at least a word a day, and a sign or two a week. she is starting to speak in sentences and knows the difference between one and two, and can say the alphabet up to f. she can identify yellow and red and blue and green.

well i cant get enough of her amazing brain and i love feeding it with info, as much as she loves learning. so it works out wonderfully!








lately i have been getting negative comments online (not this site) from other moms when i talk about her. almost as if they are trying to make me feel badly for wanting to tell the world just how freakin great i think she is!
i am getting SO sick of being made to feel badly for having a natural momma feeling and wanting to spread the word of her awesomeness.
i never make negative comments about other moms babies, EVER. its just not in me. and i always try to say nice things about their children, and i really do get excited about their kids progress, and let them know it. but still i get some pretty snarky comments about how i shouldnt brag when other parents dont have such advanced kids.
i really dont see it as braggin, just sharing her progress, just like the rest of the mommies are doing, and yet, i still feel ganged up on.
anyone else ever get that?
i hate to sound like such a whiney boohoo brat, but its really bothering me.
damn i must be ready to start my period!!! i am so hormonal


Well, I just want to say that it's really cool your DD knows all that! Yay for her!

I *could* feel bad, since my son is older and doesn't know all those signs and whatnot, but I don't. Kids are different!


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

I also wanted to say that it really seems weird, that so many women here are basically trying to get another woman to not praise her child for accomplishments, and adding in that the child of the OP is female...well, it just feels like oppression to me. Keep the girl down, don't let her think highly of herself for knowledge.....

I don't *think* that's in anyone's head, but it's having the same result.

I know if my husband were having this convo with his male friends, they would be celebrating the child's accomplishments, and then each of them would share what their own child can do. There wouldn't be any defensiveness of "my child can't do that" or "don't label her" etc, there would just be pure joy for each chid's accomplishments.

It's really weird, to hear women talking this way.

****
Also, someone brought up Japanese culture and how they don't praise their children. I think that anyone wanting to point to that culture for how to raise children *might* want to look at the suicide rate of their youth, before putting their way of doing things on any sort of pedestal.

My husband's mother is Korean, not Japanese, but she raised him and his sibs similarly, and he would HATE for his children to be raised like that. He grew up with *awful* self-esteem because of how she did things, even though he was *quite* smart, very creative, and athletic (As and Bs, gifted in math, can draw and make up stories, AND is a black belt in tae kwon do AND was offered a scholarship in football at UW!). He never ever believed in himself because his mom only focused on what he did wrong. It's only now that he realizes how many mistakes he made (he gave up that football scholarship b/c he'd be on the bench until the star playing his position was graduated, he dropped out of college before his 2nd year was done, he gave up on drawing because his mother told him it was useless (it KILLS him that some of the big up and coming cartoonists are Korean!), it goes on and on), and he wishes his mom had been more supportive, instead of being traditional.

So once you see the negatives of the not praising thing, you don't want to fall into that trap.

****
All that is not to say I believe in empty praise! I don't believe in upping self-esteem for no apparent reason. I think it's good to know what you're good at, to work on getting better at the other things, but also to figure out, at some point, what things you're not good at.

I'm starting to ramble now, I'll stop.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

So... if we have really beautiful children, should we only discuss them in a support thread? Should we start it in the Special Needs forum, or would Finding Your Tribe be more appropriate?









It's really nice to say, "I don't want my child to act or be treated any differently because they are academically advanced," just like it's nice to say "I don't want my child to act or be treated any differently because they're exceptionally good-looking," but the fact is that no matter how much or how little you talk about it, _other people are going to notice and treat your child differently_.









I've watched people respond to a beautiful child an an average-looking child who were doing the same thing, together even, and treat the two kids very differently. Most of the time, the differences are more subtle but I've found that the more extraordinary a child looks, the more striking the differences in treatment from adults. Likewise, the more academically/intellectually advanced a child is, the more apparent it is to outsiders and the more likely they are to comment on it, regardless of what the parent does or does not say.

I happen to be blessed with children who are beautiful and very bright. They stand out in a crowd, and there's nothing that I can say or do to change that. When someone comments on the blueness of my daughter's eyes, am I supposed to say that they look grey in some lights, or to make something else up? We may not like it, but we can't change the fact that people judge one another on appearances. Those of us with exceptionally beautiful children will find that they are treated differently by *everyone* than those of us with average looking children. Those of us with (dare I say it) gifted children will likewise learn that those children will also be treated differently. Neither is always positive; a beautiful child often has negative behaviors reinforced by strangers (my niece used to stick out her lip in public and scores of people would drop what they were doing to come and gush over her and chastise the adult with her for not doing what the intractible three-year-old wanted) while gifted children often have to suffer by being compared to other children (many gifted children are more empathic at an earlier age than average children, and sense the inherent unfairness in the comparison).

We're all here at MDC because we're interested in attachment parenting. It's not a set of rules to which we must adhere, but a philosophy: the idea that paying attention to your children and treating them as individual people is more important than the mainstream tendencies towards promoting independance and strict, preset roles for children at an early age. We ought to have something in common, namely that we care deeply for our children and that we are all working hard to do the things that we feel are best for them, even in the face of (often staunch) opposition from our friends, families, and society in general. I thought that most of us were here because we wanted to support other parents and to be supported for our own decisions. I thought that the point of AP was that parents know their own children better than other people. Reading over this thread, I have to wonder if I'm totally wrong about this idea.


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Mollyeilis, you have a great point. In fact, my sister and I have consciously decided that when people praise our children, we will say, "yeah, she's fabulous, we are so blessed" instead of things that most people say like "well, you should have seen her this morning" which is what our mother and father did.

Kids hear everything and they understand. Let's celebrate their accomplishments. To people who feel this is bragging, I respectfully disagree. We are praising someone dear to us. It's not a put down to somebody else's kid that ours did something cool. I don't understand this at all.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

One last attempt and then I'll leave it to those lovely individuals who tried to explain it before: It's about the presentation. Ever seen that Cosby show when Cliff tries to explain to Vanessa's fiance why they were struggling with the engagement? He described it as a lovely steak dinner presented on a garbage lid. I can celebrate a child's milestones and achievements; I love reading about a baby or toddler who just spoke his first seventeen word sentence and I wouldn't doubt the parent. Every time I read a thread about a younger child's milestones, no matter how seemingly small nor how great, it brings to mind my own children's milestones from several years ago and I can remember that joy. It's all in how it's presented. I don't like the quantitative or qualitative comparisons. They are unnecessary and they belittle others. It's important to rejoice in the individual child, not how they compare to others, and that's where I see some posters being disrespectful of other parents, by referring to "advancement" and "developmentally below" and "very gifted". Unnecessary and potentially hurtful descriptors.


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## Kincaid (Feb 12, 2004)

Oh, goodness, I don't think it's oppression (since I am a lesbian separatist feminist I know mine was not intended as oppression, LOL). Just BTDT momma advice to slow down and not label a 16 month old! And while praise is wonderful, be careful of using praise in a way that sets a child up to "perform".


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## mamaley (Mar 18, 2002)

Quote:

So... if we have really beautiful children, should we only discuss them in a support thread? Should we start it in the Special Needs forum, or would Finding Your Tribe be more appropriate?
But I don't think there is a connection between beautiful children and asyncronous development like there is with gifted children. Gifted children do have challenges and "special needs", and they're not just social.

BTW, thanks to the mamas for their kind words about my previous post.

And again, I am not a mother of "gifted" children.


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Monkeyfeet*
*Anyone have a REALLY smart 16 mo?*

Truthfully, aren't they all in their own special, unique, wonderful ways?

Well, no.

That's like saying, "Aren't all children _tall_ in their own special, unique, wonderful ways," or "Aren't all children Aspergersy in their own special, unique, wonderful ways."

All children should be treated with love; each being is unique, but no, not all children are smart...or ugly, beautiful, athletic, thin, fat, or short To claim that "all" children are smart is to erase their uniqueness.


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

With all due respect, I disagree. Would you be equally hesitant to label a young child as having Asperger's Syndrome, for example?

Having a label has value in that it provides a relatively quick way of telegraphing a host of related behaviors, symptoms, and approaches to teaching and parenting. Denying that label might hurt the child in that the parent/teacher might expect the child to act essentially in opposition to his or her nature, much as it would be an injustice to expect a child with Asperger's to be able to interact in the same way and with the same teaching approaches as his or her peers.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *CherryBomb*
I would be hesitant to label such a young child as gifted, though you certainly have every right to be proud! Many children slow down as they get old. My dd was very much like yours at the same age, but now at four, she is in a much more normal range (though still at the high end of normal).

Me, too. Dd1 was also so bright and advanced and did everything early, and dd2 has severe brain damage. Though she's still a bright baby


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

No offense, but Gardner's research has been widely (and loudly) discredited by most psychologists researching intelligence. Part of the problem is that he deliberately blurs the line between "intelligence" and "talent" in order to sell his product to school systems, which of course _love_ the idea that "every child is intelligent" because it appeals very much to the anti-intellectual anti-elitism nature of the public school system, basically.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Leilalu*
I think too, that there are differnt types of intelligence, and different personalities, etc etc. Aren't there 8 intelligences?So while one child is intelligent in one way, another is in another way.

I personally think it is wonderful that your dd is so smart. But I think you need to ease up on the standards and such yopu may have of what "smart" is. I love seeing how differnt children learn.You child seems very capable in verbal skills. That is awesome!!!!









I googled the eight inteolligences and here is one site I found.
http://www.ednoland.com.hk/en/ednolandweb/genius_2.cfm


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Soundhunter*
Einstein, known to be one of the most brilliant people in human recorded history, was an extremely late talker (he didn't talk until he was 5) and his parents assumed he was significantly learning disabled and not worthy of much academic attention. .

This is inaccurate. It's a widely-held myth not supported by documentation


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## sophmama (Sep 11, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Charles Baudelaire*
This is inaccurate. It's a widely-held myth not supported by documentation


Oh wow - I'd better stop spreading that urban myth! I didn't know it wasn't true! :ignore I've quoted it many times!


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *boatbaby*
I You can drill any kid into being a genius.

Wow, do I wish _that_ were true! I'm a teacher, and man, if I could do that, I would be stinkin' rich!


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *GeezerMom*
Because wanting to watch football w/Daddy is a normal bonding experience for little boys, whereas memorizing flash cards w/Mommy will get your lunch money stolen.

I teach at a magnet school for math/computer science -- yeah, it's a real "nerd school" --and they have a joke there.

Q: What do you call a guy who was a major nerd in school?
A: CEO.


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sophmama*
Oh wow - I'd better stop spreading that urban myth! I didn't know it wasn't true! :ignore I've quoted it many times!

I did too! I was so surprised to find out that it basically is not the case -- it's one of those things "everyone knows" to be true, so I never questioned it until I read it in a book about Einstein. Go figure!


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## daekini (Jun 17, 2004)

oh.my.goodness.

why do we have to measure our children against one another? no wonder bullying is so common in schools. we've taught them very well.


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Missy*
What has bothered me the most about this thread, and the gifted children support thread, is the overwhelming emphasis on extremely young babies and toddlers. The resulting expectations, assumptions and implications can hurt so many people. I'm sorry, but a verbally precocious toddler does not equal a gifted child.

Missy, I believe this is a misconception, but perhaps you're only talking about a small degree of difference from the norm.

A couple of clarifications:

1. Because a child is not verbally precocious does not mean he or she is not gifted.

2. However, depending on the degree of difference from the norm, verbal precocity _can_ be a good indicator of giftedness.

Here's what I mean: if the developmental norm for (let's say) a child of 18 months is 10-20 words and Person X's child speaks 25 words, then you're right, you can't make a confident assertion that this child is gifted. Maybe, but maybe not.

OTOH, if that child at 18 months is speaking 800 words, then I think you can say they're gifted with far greater confidence.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

You're right; it can sometimes be an indicator. But not to the degree so many people assume it can be. Our daughter was speaking in sentences at 12 months and had a vocab of 200 words; our ds1's language was much more delayed, and he's the one who would be considered gifted now. As teachers, trained in child development, we knew enough not to hold false expectations for either child. 12 months to 2, even 3 years is really far too soon to presume how gifted a child might be, except for those few children who are reading at 18 months or playing the piano at 2 years.


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## oceanbaby (Nov 19, 2001)

I just have to say that the whole talking/gifted thing seems to have no correlation. I didn't talk until almost 3yo, and was labled gifted and put into GATE classrooms. Ds1 didn't talk until about the same time, and was labeled "gifted" by the numerous speech therapists from whom we sought counsel. I kind of ignored it because it's not something I'm particularly interested in - I just follow his lead in whichever direction he goes.


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## Soundhunter (Dec 13, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sophmama*
Oh wow - I'd better stop spreading that urban myth! I didn't know it wasn't true! :ignore I've quoted it many times!

Ditto









I've read it so many times from so many different sources that I beleved it was common knowledge. Thanks Charles Baudelaire


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## Monkeyfeet (Feb 5, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Charles Baudelaire*
Well, no.

That's like saying, "Aren't all children _tall_ in their own special, unique, wonderful ways," or "Aren't all children Aspergersy in their own special, unique, wonderful ways."

All children should be treated with love; each being is unique, but no, not all children are smart...or ugly, beautiful, athletic, thin, fat, or short To claim that "all" children are smart is to erase their uniqueness.


How interesting, thank you SO much for that!


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## Kincaid (Feb 12, 2004)

FYI, reading early is not considered to be a way of determining giftedness. Only 50% of the rare "profoundly gifted" kids (IQ's around 180) can read at age FIVE.

I also find it interesting that the almost exclusive majority of children labeled by experts as "gifted" are WHITE, MIDDLE CLASS KIDS, typically kids with a stay-at-home parent. Is this a coincidence that the identifiers of giftedness only come up in white middle class kids? Are white kids just smarter?

A previous poster talked about her gifted and exceptionally beautiful kids and remarked about their blue eyes, that people stop and stare at her children because they are so striking.... are blue eyes intrinsically more beautiful, or is this all just perception? our society attaching value and hierarchy to certain things? How come the folks we "stop and stare" at in the US are thin women with blonde hair? Why out of dozens of supermodels, only one woman is of color? Is beauty something cut and dry, like tall or short? or is it a complex reflection of certain things arbitrarily valued by the racial majority?

Beauty and intelligence are NOT as clear as tall/short! Sorry, I disagree in a major way. Beauty and intelligence are things that are preception based, culturally based, and very much prone to our racist, classist ways of thinking.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

I also find it interesting that the almost exclusive majority of children labeled by experts as "gifted" are WHITE, MIDDLE CLASS KIDS, typically kids with a stay-at-home parent. Is this a coincidence that the identifiers of giftedness only come up in white middle class kids? Are white kids just smarter
The idea that they "only come up" in white middle-class kids is, of course, false. Are white middle-class kids more likely to be IDENTIFIED as gifted? Yes, and that's a problem. But is the solution to this problem to throw the idea of giftedness, and the necessity to think about ways to best educate and parent these children, out the window? I don't think so.

As to verbal precocity, my understanding is that Charles Baudelaire has it right. The *absence* of verbal precocity does not indicate that a child is not gifted. The *presence* of significant verbal precocity, on the other hand, can be a pretty good indicator. Same thing with early reading, as I have read it: its absence does not indicate that a child is not gifted, but its presence, especially if untaught, is an indicator that a child is likely to be gifted.

Quote:

Even the earliest studies of exceptionally and profoundly gifted children reveal that these children differ strikingly from their age peers in their unusually early acquisition of speech, movement, and reading.

Numerous researchers have noticed the early development of speech, which is typical of even moderately gifted children. Whereas the average child utters her first meaningful words (other than "mamma-dadda" babble) at about the age of 12 months (Staines & Mitchell, 1982), moderately gifted children start speaking, on average, two months earlier. However, my study of 53 Australian children of IQ 160+ found that the average age at which these extremely gifted children began to speak was 8.6 months, while several spoke as early as 6 months. By 13 months Emma had a vocabulary of more than 80 words, including complex words such as flower, sunshine, spaghetti, pineapple, and raining. Before her first birthday she was already linking words into pairs (Gross, 1999). Adam spoke his first word at 5 months of age and two months later was talking in three-and four-word sentences, regularly producing a running commentary on the grocery items as his mother wheeled him past the shelves in the shopping cart! Hollingworth (1942) noted that several of her subjects of IQ 180+ began to speak in sentences before their first birthday; the average child does not even begin to link words into pairs until around the age of 18 months (Jersild, 1960).

The speech of some exceptionally gifted children demonstrates quite remarkable complexity. Ian of IQ 200 knew all the words of "My Grandfather's Clock" by the age of 23 months, and shortly after his second birthday he announced to a family friend, "You know, my father is a mathematician and my mother is a physiotherapist" (Gross, 1993). A frequent comment by parents of these children is that their children's speech was phonetically clear and grammatically accurate from the earliest months. The mother of Hadley, also of IQ 200, notes, "His early speech, which began at the age of 6 months, was very clear and people frequently remarked on this. In fact, his early speech attempts were remarkably accurate, and on the few occasions that Robert or I did correct his pronunciation or his use of a word he seemed to note and apply the correction immediately" (Gross, 1993, p. 92).

Nonetheless, it is not unusual for the speech of extremely gifted children to be delayed. Probably the most famous example of this is the case of Einstein, who did not talk until 3 years of age and was suspected of being learning disabled (Goertzel & Goertzel, 1962). *The absence of early speech is not therefore, an indication that the child is not highly gifted. However, the very early development of speech, coupled with an unusually speedy progression through the stages of speech development is a strong indicator that the child may well be highly gifted.*
On reading:

Quote:

Reading, a third and significant source of knowledge acquisition, also tends to develop at remarkably early ages. Terman found that one of the few variables, on which the exceptionally gifted children in his study differed from the moderately and highly gifted, was the very early onset of reading (Terman & Oden, 1947). Hollingworth (1942) also noted that it was the early development of reading which most clearly differentiated exceptionally and profoundly gifted children from the moderately gifted. All Hollingworth's 12 subjects of IQ 180+ were reading before school entry, while four were reading at age 2, three at age 3, and three at age 4.
I might suggest that those who are making broad statements about all of this (including myself) do some reading on the subject. For instance, on the "all parents think their child is gifted" idea:

Quote:

Is your child truly gifted, or are you just one of those pushy, "stage mother" types who thinks his or her bright child is really a genius? "Parents' observations of their own child's gifts or special talents are the greatest indicator," says Linda Kreger Silverman, who is director of the Gifted Development Center in Denver. "If your child's teacher says your child isn't gifted, and you feel certain that he or she is, seek testing. Of the 3,000 or so children we've seen at the center, 84 percent of the parents who thought their child was gifted were right; and 95 percent had a child gifted in some area, even if their total IQ did not fall into the gifted range."
I am sure everyone thinks their child is wonderful, beautiful, bright and special. But do we really "all" think our kids are gifted, using the "standard" definition of giftedness? Does every person posting here believe that his or her child would be in the top 10% of children whose IQs are tested? In the top 5%? In the top .5%? (Leaving aside the issue of whether IQ tests are completely accurate.) I don't think so--we know our kids better than that.

Here's another study--"Parents are the best source of information about their children's abilities":

http://www.uq.edu.au/news/index.html?article=2690

Quote:

Parents are a highly accurate and reliable source of information about their children`s intelligence and abilities with most able to predict their child`s IQ to within a few points, according to a University of Queensland PhD study.

For his thesis with UQ`s Graduate School of Education, Dr John Worthington conducted a longitudinal study of parents` and teachers` perceptions of children`s literacy from pre-school through to the end of year two.

"The study showed parents were an excellent source of knowledge about their child`s skills, learning behaviour and intelligence. This finding flies in the face of the conventional wisdom that parents will inevitably overestimate their children`s skills," Dr Worthington said.
It's funny that here on MDC, where it is generally acknowledged that parents are the experts on their children and understand them the best of anyone, there is such resistance to the idea that a parent might be able to ID a young child as intellectually advanced. Would we focus the same scrutiny on the mother of a 2-year-old who is seeing signs of autism spectrum disorders? Why dp we trust AP parents on everything but this?

Here's an interesting quiz on myths and realities of gifted kids, as supported by research:

http://www.sp.uconn.edu/~nrcgt/news/.../wintr983.html

Here is another page with interesting, concrete information:

http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Wha...ed/learned.htm

Excerpts:

Quote:

Giftedness can be observed in the first three years by rapid progression through the developmental milestones. These milestones should be documented and taken seriously as evidence of giftedness. Early identification of advanced development is as essential as early identification of any other exceptionality. Early intervention promotes optimal development.

Quote:

Giftedness is not elitist. It cuts across all socio-economic, ethnic and national groups. In every culture, there are developmentally advanced children who have greater abstract reasoning and develop at a faster rate than their age peers. Though the percentage of gifted students among the upper classes may be higher, a much greater number of gifted children come from the lower classes, because the poor far outnumber the rich. Therefore, when provisions are denied to the gifted on the basis that they are "elitist," it is the poor who suffer the most. The rich have other options.

Quote:

Gifted children are asynchronous. Their development tends to be uneven, and they often feel out-of-sync with age peers and with age-based school expectations. They are emotionally intense and have greater awareness of the perils of the world. They may not have the emotional resources to match their cognitive awareness. They are at risk for abuse in environments that do not respect their differences.
Some interesting "Is my child gifted?" links:

http://www.mcgt.net/Articles/checklist.htm
http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/giftedca...tml#behaviours


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## Hoopin' Mama (Sep 9, 2004)

I pretty much agree with everything Kincaid said.

To the OP, how wonderful that you have a bright child. I just wanted to say that perhaps you are meeting resistance b/c of the way you choose to describe her accomplishments. For instance, instead of giving someone an actual count of words and signs, you could just say she has picked up many.

If I met a Mama at the park who started spouting off word counts and sign counts, etc, I would probably not hang around too long to listen. Not because of envy, but it would just sound annoying to me. I even found the title of the thread very off-putting.

Well, that's just my humble opinion. I know what it's like to want to shout from the rooftops with love and pride. But it goes over best with family members and close friends.


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## pinky (Nov 21, 2001)

I'm realizing, reading this thread, that what really rankles me is the use of the word "gifted" to mean "smart" or "academically talented." (I'm not talking about the posters here, just the general use of this word.) I mean, having been a teacher myself, I certainly believe that some people just have more natural smarts than others. Just like some can paint or dance or run fast or whatever. But I'm troubled by the way that the word "gifted" has been co-opted to mean brainy, as if other kinds of gifts are lesser ones.

I guess I just deeply believe that each of us comes into the world with gifts, so I naturally cringe when I hear a parent describe their own child as "gifted," as though this is an unusal quality. Maybe a child is unusally smart or precocious, but honestly I refuse to belive that one child is more "gifted" than another.

Sorry, I know this is straying a bit from the OP....


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## Kincaid (Feb 12, 2004)

loraxc,
sorry, your data quoted is very dated. 1940's, 1960's. There is some great new analysis, based in the 90's and 2000. This is where the new thinking that reading and verbal skills don't = early signs of giftedness. Hollingwoth's 1942 stuff on reading and giftedness was 65 years ago... the thinking on this stuff now has changed a lot.

And look up the racial stats of children tracked in the Duke University gifted identification program


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kincaid*
FYI, reading early is not considered to be a way of determining giftedness. Only 50% of the rare "profoundly gifted" kids (IQ's around 180) can read at age FIVE.

Kincaid, I'm sorry that I'm going to have to point out an inaccuracy in your thinking, but this is a point often misunderstood by many people, so at least you're not alone.









If you are NOT reading early, it doesn't mean you're not gifted. That's the point that is usually misuderstood -- people usually then take it from there and disregard early reading as an indicator of giftedness. However, that's not the case.

If you ARE reading early, yeah, you probably ARE gifted, and there IS a strong correlation between the two, and the earlier the child reads, the more likely they are gifted and the more gifted they are likely to be.

In short, if your child doesn't read by 6, you just can't tell (based only on that fact) that he or she is not gifted.

If your child is reading by age 2, then yeah. They are.

There's some really good research out there on precocious readers (that is, precocious readers who don't have hyperlexia).

Hope that helped clarify stuff. Here are some links to back up what I'm saying:

Early or avid reader

Early signs of extreme intelligence

Quote:

I also find it interesting that the almost exclusive majority of children labeled by experts as "gifted" are WHITE, MIDDLE CLASS KIDS, typically kids with a stay-at-home parent. Is this a coincidence that the identifiers of giftedness only come up in white middle class kids? Are white kids just smarter?
I can't venture to say. I think there are many reasons, some cultural, many economic. Personally, I work in a school district with many people from a group I'll call Group X. There are few people from Group X identified by the GATE program in the district. I strongly believe that the reasons for that are that Group X members tend to have a greater number of families in poverty, single-parent homes, and lower education than whites -- and all of these factors combine to make them too pressed for time, too intimidated by or antipathetic toward schools to fight against them, and too tired to do the kind of bureaucratic red-tapery that getting your child identified for GATE requires -- and to add insult to injury, to get your child qualified for the Highly Gifted program, you have to pay for a private psych. to test them.

Two words: Yeah. Right. In short, I think it has a great deal to do with money, education, and cultural values and very little to do with innate education. There's no reason the GATE program shouldn't have its fair share of Group X people, but when the cards are stacked against you...well, it tends to be too much of a struggle, and that is completely unfair.

Quote:



Beauty and intelligence are NOT as clear as tall/short! Sorry, I disagree in a major way. Beauty and intelligence are things that are preception based, culturally based, and very much prone to our racist, classist ways of thinking.
Intelligence is more quantifiable than beauty.


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## Kincaid (Feb 12, 2004)

This info below is more common of recent research, which you see is quite different than the 1940's and 1960's views (heck, we were segregating at that time! of course those studies were outdated).

"The children most likely to be identified as gifted are White, affluent, well behaved, and high achieving. Underrepresented in programs for the gifted are certain ethnic or cultural minorities, poor or disabled children, limited-English speakers, underachievers, and kids who act out. Girls are underserved in gifted programs focusing on math and science."

"The two major studies on gifted education from the [U.S. Department of Education found the same gaps: too few poor and minority kids, too narrow a definition of giftedness."

"Mary Frasier, Jaime Garcia, and Harry Passow identify three major reasons for the underrepresentation of minority students in gifted education programs: test bias, selective referral, and reliance on what the researchers term "deficit-based paradigms." The major culprit keeping minorities out of gifted programs is test bias, according to many research ers. Standardized IQ tests have long been accused of being unfair to disadvantaged and minority populations. Selective referral-the fact that teachers less often refer poor and minority students to gifted programs-stems from teacher attitudes toward and knowledge about minority students, Frasier and colleagues note in a 1995 report from the National Research Center on the Gifted and Talented. "The inability of educators to recognize 'gifted behaviors' exhibited by minority students contributes to a low rate of referral," they say. Finally, the focus on deficits "makes recognition of the strengths of minority children difficult," they conclude.
The traditional methods of finding gifted students tend to favor certain ethnic groups, studies have shown. The National Education Longitudinal Study of 1988 found that about 8.8 percent of all eighth-grade public school students participated in gifted and talented programs. Racial and ethnic groups were represented as follows:
* 17.6 percent of Asian students
* 9 percent of White students
* 7.9 percent of Black students
* 6.7 percent of Hispanic students
* 2.1 percent of American Indian students
Among the most underserved students are those who are economically disadvantaged. Kids from the bottom quartile in family income made up less than 10 percent of students in gifted programs, the longitudinal study found. In contrast, almost 50 percent of program participants were from the top income quartile."

ETA:
Great link that talks about these issues
http://www.nwrel.org/nwedu/fall_97/article6.html


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

I totally agree. Moreover, part of the problem with the term is that it's acquired status as a symbol of privilege and entitlement when it's actually a descriptor of a different brain function and educational needs.

You know what I would call "gifted" if I were the superintendent of a district?

SPECIAL ED.

There goes the cachet, there goes the status. The ones whose kids really ARE gifted, who really _do_ need a different educational approach or educational setting, the ones who are at highest risk of camouflage, rebellion, or suicide because they're the square pegs in the round hole -- they won't care two figs what the program's _called_ as long as their kid can be helped.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pinky*
I'm realizing, reading this thread, that what really rankles me is the use of the word "gifted" to mean "smart" or "academically talented." (I'm not talking about the posters here, just the general use of this word.) I mean, having been a teacher myself, I certainly believe that some people just have more natural smarts than others. Just like some can paint or dance or run fast or whatever. But I'm troubled by the way that the word "gifted" has been co-opted to mean brainy, as if other kinds of gifts are lesser ones.

I guess I just deeply believe that each of us comes into the world with gifts, so I naturally cringe when I hear a parent describe their own child as "gifted," as though this is an unusal quality. Maybe a child is unusally smart or precocious, but honestly I refuse to belive that one child is more "gifted" than another.

Sorry, I know this is straying a bit from the OP....


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Kincaid, you're pointing to just one source in all the information I cited. Charles Baudelaire has also provided citations. Why are you so invested in the idea that early reading or precocious speech development can indicate giftedness? As CB and I have both said, this does NOT mean that lack of these things indicates lack of giftedness. Do you have research to cite that shows that early extreme verbal precocity and very early reading is NOT in any way correlated with high IQ? If so, I am interested in seeing it. I don't mean that snarkily. I am genuinely interested.

Quote:

I'm realizing, reading this thread, that what really rankles me is the use of the word "gifted" to mean "smart" or "academically talented." (I'm not talking about the posters here, just the general use of this word.) I mean, having been a teacher myself, I certainly believe that some people just have more natural smarts than others. Just like some can paint or dance or run fast or whatever. But I'm troubled by the way that the word "gifted" has been co-opted to mean brainy, as if other kinds of gifts are lesser ones.

I guess I just deeply believe that each of us comes into the world with gifts, so I naturally cringe when I hear a parent describe their own child as "gifted," as though this is an unusal quality.
For the record, I actually very much agree that "gifted" is the wrong word. I think we need a more specific term, but I suspect that many possibilities would rankle someone just as much. "Intellectually advanced"? "Cognitively superior"? See what I mean? I don't think "academically talented" is quite right, because "giftedness" can encompass many traits that are not specific to academia as we now know it.


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Kincaid, I could be wrong, but I believe she is quoting from Miraca Gross' study on exceptionally gifted children -- a study originally published in 1995 and issued in another edition relatively recently, like 2003.

Moreover, my question is this: Even if she were just quoting from Hollingworth's research, what do you think would have changed about early reading acquisition as a sign of giftedness between then and now? In what way would the date of the research invalidate its conclusions? I'm sorry, but I simply don't follow your logic.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kincaid*
loraxc,
sorry, your data quoted is very dated. 1940's, 1960's. There is some great new analysis, based in the 90's and 2000. This is where the new thinking that reading and verbal skills don't = early signs of giftedness. Hollingwoth's 1942 stuff on reading and giftedness was 65 years ago... the thinking on this stuff now has changed a lot.

And look up the racial stats of children tracked in the Duke University gifted identification program


----------



## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Kincaid, again, I agree that the way gifted programs work today is flawed. I agree strongly. I was in gifted programs as a child and they were pretty pointless--and as I recall, you could get your kid into them as a parent if you just were enough of a pain. That's not the way to do it, But just because they are flawed, shall we throw the baby out with the bathwater? I don't think so. Why not improve the way children are identified? Change the tests being used? (Spatial tests work better than mathematical and verbal ones for IDing high-ability students without regard to race or socioeconomic status). Why not educate teachers more effectively so that they can see the underachieving gifted kid who acts out as clearly as the teacher-pleasing, motivated one? There are many ways to do this. Or are you saying that there is no such thing as giftedness and that the entire idea of gifted programs, schools, pull-outs, enrichment, etc is fundamentally antidemocratic and flawed?


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## `guest` (Nov 20, 2001)

No offense, but the prob with teachers and intelligence is for a teacher, the intelligence of each child must be accessible to them in a format that they find acceptable. For example, lets say there is a child who is not verbally adept, yet may have more spatial awareness. My child, for example, whom I consider intelligent, was being considered for special help by his teacher. This was basically because she could not access his intelligence through her usual means. Once I came in and acted as a bridge, we worked together to create a way that was good for both the teacher and the child and his capacity increased according to her needs.
I believe that quantifiable intelligence is slanted towards verbal acuity. Because teachers do not have the time to really get to know each child, they use what they have; testing, etc. To say intelligence is quantifiable is such a load of ....Yes, verbal intelligence, ability to write, etc. is quantifiable at an early age. But a child can be brilliant yet unable to work in the "system". Perhaps a child may have amazing brilliant thoughts yet not have the ability to put these out in an accessible way. I know teachers would like to put each child in a box as intelligent or not, but frankly that is a major flaw in the system, that teachers do not have the time to get to know the child and what may lie behind the external.
The thought that our society has such an external basis on intelligence is sad. However I sometimes think that as another poster said, when you stress intelligence, there is an underlying sense of not being enough, of insecurity. I don't think a secure person has to blabber about how intelligent he or she is. Or parent, for that matter. Keep it to yourself and the people who care, like grandma or Aunty...even those may become annoyed at some point!


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Ummm...I'm sorry, but I know I sure as heck don't qualify as gifted even after my second cup of coffee and I'm only on my first.







, but where does it mention here in what you've quoted that early reading is not a positive indicator of giftedness?

And for what it's worth, I completely agree with you about socioeconomic factors being a major hurdle blocking POC from being identified as gifted. I live in a 'hood with a high minority population and when I spoke to our neighborhood school about what services it offered gifted kids, the educational psychologist there said, "We've never had one."

BULL.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kincaid*
This info below is more common of recent research, which you see is quite different than the 1940's and 1960's views (heck, we were segregating at that time! of course those studies were outdated).

"The children most likely to be identified as gifted are White, affluent, well behaved, and high achieving. Underrepresented in programs for the gifted are certain ethnic or cultural minorities, poor or disabled children, limited-English speakers, underachievers, and kids who act out. Girls are underserved in gifted programs focusing on math and science."

"The two major studies on gifted education from the [U.S. Department of Education found the same gaps: too few poor and minority kids, too narrow a definition of giftedness."

"Mary Frasier, Jaime Garcia, and Harry Passow identify three major reasons for the underrepresentation of minority students in gifted education programs: test bias, selective referral, and reliance on what the researchers term "deficit-based paradigms." The major culprit keeping minorities out of gifted programs is test bias, according to many research ers. Standardized IQ tests have long been accused of being unfair to disadvantaged and minority populations. Selective referral-the fact that teachers less often refer poor and minority students to gifted programs-stems from teacher attitudes toward and knowledge about minority students, Frasier and colleagues note in a 1995 report from the National Research Center on the Gifted and Talented. "The inability of educators to recognize 'gifted behaviors' exhibited by minority students contributes to a low rate of referral," they say. Finally, the focus on deficits "makes recognition of the strengths of minority children difficult," they conclude.
The traditional methods of finding gifted students tend to favor certain ethnic groups, studies have shown. The National Education Longitudinal Study of 1988 found that about 8.8 percent of all eighth-grade public school students participated in gifted and talented programs. Racial and ethnic groups were represented as follows:
* 17.6 percent of Asian students
* 9 percent of White students
* 7.9 percent of Black students
* 6.7 percent of Hispanic students
* 2.1 percent of American Indian students
Among the most underserved students are those who are economically disadvantaged. Kids from the bottom quartile in family income made up less than 10 percent of students in gifted programs, the longitudinal study found. In contrast, almost 50 percent of program participants were from the top income quartile."

ETA:
Great link that talks about these issues
http://www.nwrel.org/nwedu/fall_97/article6.html


----------



## Kincaid (Feb 12, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *loraxc*
Kincaid, you're pointing to just one source in all the information I cited. Charles Baudelaire has also provided citations. Why are you so invested in the idea that early reading or precocious speech development can indicate giftedness? As CB and I have both said, this does NOT mean that lack of these things indicates lack of giftedness. Do you have research to cite that shows that early extreme verbal precocity and very early reading is NOT in any way correlated with high IQ? If so, I am interested in seeing it. I don't mean that snarkily. I am genuinely interested.

Trying to prove or disprove that early reading is an earmark of giftedness is missing the point entirely. The WHOLE paradigm of thinking on giftedness is shifting, thankfully. "Language arts" is just one developmental facet. Ever met a math genius? They are typically very non-verbal. Often to the point their parents fear autism (many sources do say Einstein's parents were concerned he was developmentally delayed).

This comes full circle (in my mind) to the simple advice. It might be jumping the gun a bit to take skills of a 16 month old and label anything. It's also been shown to be unhealthy for the kid's development.

ETA:
I fear we are so far off track that we need to discontinue out of respect for the point of the OP, which was the negative reactions from other moms to her comments on what her child can do.


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## loraxc (Aug 14, 2003)

Quote:

"Language arts" is just one developmental facet.
Of course.







: Did anyone say otherwise? There are many aspects of "giftedness," and most gifted children are not equally gifted in all areas.

Quote:

Ever met a math genius? They are typically very non-verbal.
Well, ever met a verbal genius? Some of them are very nonmathematical. Or nonspatial. Or nonmusical. I am verbally "gifted" as measured by IQ tests, but my spatial reasoning abilities are "below average" as measured by IQ tests. And? I still don't get why this means that verbal or reading ability is irrelevant to the concept of giftedness.







:

I honestly am interested in how you feel the paradigm of giftedness is evolving, and if you wish to share research or articles on this I would be interested in reading them.


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## eilonwy (Apr 3, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kincaid*
"The children most likely to be identified as gifted are White, affluent, well behaved, and high achieving. Underrepresented in programs for the gifted are certain ethnic or cultural minorities, poor or disabled children, limited-English speakers, underachievers, and kids who act out. Girls are underserved in gifted programs focusing on math and science."

For very personal reasons, this is something which interests me. I am not white (very mixed), was raised on welfare, was not considered well-behaved by my teachers (I got straight Ds in "works and plays well with others" and "participates in classes") and was not a high achiever (I graduated from high school with a perfect C average, thanks to idividual teachers' grading proclivites and my own refusal to do busywork at home or at school). I'm female, suffered from bipolar disorder throughout my life, and (in high school) often acted out in class. My profile is that of the archetypical underachiever. English is, however, my first language.

Despite all of that, I was in gifted programs from second grade on up.







I think that the important idea here is that of _*identification*_. This idea is only applicable to school programs, and says more about the public school system than about which children are actually gifted. There are many, many children out there who grew up the way that I did without the advantage of a mother who would not take "no" for an answer when it came to the public school system. The statistics that you quoted have nothing to do with who is gifted, only with who will be identified through the public school system as gifted. They're two very different things, and for me the distinction is an important one to make.

It's got nothing to do with parents here, though, nor with parents posting to the support thread. The overwhelming majority of parents posting on that thread have never had their children formally identified as gifted; some of us have never had our children tested at all and don't have any plans to have any testing done in the future.







None of us waited for a public school teacher to tell us that our child/ren were or were not gifted. We don't expect teachers to necessarily identify our children, some of us for the typical reasons (low income, minorities) but most of us for the same reason that we don't take our kids to the doctor to find out if they're sick when they're obviously not. We're their mothers-- we know.


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kincaid*
Trying to prove or disprove that early reading is an earmark of giftedness is missing the point entirely. The WHOLE paradigm of thinking on giftedness is shifting, thankfully. "Language arts" is just one developmental facet. Ever met a math genius? They are typically very non-verbal. Often to the point their parents fear autism (many sources do say Einstein's parents were concerned he was developmentally delayed).

This comes full circle (in my mind) to the simple advice. It might be jumping the gun a bit to take skills of a 16 month old and label anything. It's also been shown to be unhealthy for the kid's development.

ETA:
I fear we are so far off track that we need to discontinue out of respect for the point of the OP, which was the negative reactions from other moms to her comments on what her child can do.

I'm sure by this point that we are really speaking at cross purposes here.

The point of this sub-thread on reading and giftedness IS to persuade you (and others) that early reading has been demonstrated repeatedly as a reliable indicator of giftedness.

To put it another way, it's like we're trying to demonstrate that a fever of 101 and up is a sign of flu.

Then, it's as if you responded, "But flu sufferers are underidentified! Look at how poorly the health care system in this country is serving poor people and POC!"

Yes. We agree. And a fever of 101 and up is still a sign of flu.

After that, it's as if you responded with, "But you're missing the point -- the whole paradigm of influenza diagnosis is shifting, thankfully. A fever of 101 is just one developmental facet of the flu. Ever seen anyone with muscle aches?"

See what I mean?


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## teachma (Dec 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Charles Baudelaire*
I totally agree. Moreover, part of the problem with the term is that it's acquired status as a symbol of privilege and entitlement when it's actually a descriptor of a different brain function and educational needs.

You know what I would call "gifted" if I were the superintendent of a district?

SPECIAL ED.

There goes the cachet, there goes the status.

This is actually the case in most, if not all, public school systems. Gifted programs fall under the umbrella of Special Education in the two states in which I've taught public school, CA and CT. In these states, the teachers of gifted kids report not to the principal as their supervisor but the Director of Special Services.


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## pixiexto (Mar 6, 2003)

This thread leaves me with this impression.

It seems to be stated as unquestionable fact that "giftedness" exists - that it is a fixed trait, something that either is or is not.

What a limiting view - both for those that are defined as "gifted" and those that are not.

Looking at recent research (Carol Dweck immediately comes to mind), children who believe that their intelligence is fixed (i.e. "gifted", "smart", "brainy") are motivated towards tasks that will confirm this belief. They will avoid challenging tasks and are reluctant to show effort, as this implies lack of mastery/skill. My DH has been doing enormous research in this specific subject, and it's been eye-opening.

On the other side of the coin, if individuals view their intelligence as adaptable, they are geared up to take on new, challenging tasks. There is no risk in lack of success; it is viewed as a building-block for next time.

DH is a professor, and has adapted his teaching style with this in mind. The increases in GPA have been incredible. More importantly, the students' enthusiasm and determination are through the roof.

IMO, to label my child as "gifted" would do her no favours whatsoever.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

Okay, this just got on my last nerve. I got slammed for just referring to the existence and my general impression of the "other" thread, yet our posts on this thread are being QUOTED??? I won't quote the quotes, or quote the replies to the quotes, even though several were seriously reaching...I just want to point out that this thread has--rightly--avoided the specifics. I also just want to add...


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## Charles Baudelaire (Apr 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *teachma*
This is actually the case in most, if not all, public school systems. Gifted programs fall under the umbrella of Special Education in the two states in which I've taught public school, CA and CT. In these states, the teachers of gifted kids report not to the principal as their supervisor but the Director of Special Services.

Well, not where I am. I honestly wish services were mandated in all states, just like they are to special needs kids, and really, for the same reasons: degree of difference from the norm. I was more saying that I don't think gifted ed. should be _called_ that, though -- and no fancy acronyms that basically work out to the same thing (e.g., GATE) and no ambiguous terminology that hides the fact that we're talking about gifted kids until everyone figures it out (e.g., Explorers!).

Nope, just plain ol' unadorned "Special Ed." Special Ed. doesn't distinguish (at this time) between kids who are in special ed. because of cerebral palsy, Down syndrome, autism, or whatever. It's just plain "Special Ed." I think it should be that for gifted kids too, with no distinction. That way, no one can really say, "My kid is in the gifted program." The best that a status-hungry parent would be able to say is, "My kid is getting special ed services because he's gifted," but man, talk about a status-killer. Takes the "bling" right out of that whole idea, doesn't it -- that is, unless you actually _require_ those services and don't care what the heck it's called as long as your kid can get the help he needs.


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## Missy (Oct 22, 2002)

About the whole special ed. thing--I mentioned earlier in the thread that gifted ed. falls officially under special ed., but I do know that a lot of school systems choose to categorize it differently. But, actually, even under the special ed. umbrella, there are more labels that are used to place kids in the appropriate programs. The labels are written on the evaluation findings and on the IEP and frequently on any subsequent child study forms: HI, LD, OHI, MR, SLI, OI, etc..."gifted" would simply evolve into GAT or GT, as it probably has in many school divisions. And parents would know the definition and it would still retain a certain status.


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## NoHiddenFees (Mar 15, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiexto*
IMO, to label my child as "gifted" would do her no favours whatsoever.

If you take the time to read the "other" thread, you'll realize that we have chosen to use the gifted label (with occasional debate about the word gifted, which, like it or not is the preferred clinical term) not because it confers some benefit to our children, but rather because many traits commonly found in gifted children can prove extremely challenging within the context of the family and our children's needs are, to varying degrees, different from the norm. Gifted kids are literally wired differently.

My family is fortunate so far... we've had a relatively easy ride. It looked for awhile that we were going to have perfectionist issues with DD1, but early and continued intervention seems to have helped. Still, just keeping up with her desire for more, more, more information and mental stimulation is mentally -- and occasionally physically -- exhausting for ME. Do I complain? Sometimes. I probably even whinge occasionally, as do most parents dealing with the panoply of issues that arise as their children develop. More and more I find myself completely blown away as her thirst for knowlege accelerates. I'll wager most parents of truly gifted kids (at least early on) feel some mixture of pride, discomfort and occasionally fear when viewing their children's accomplishments.

Do we compare our children to others? Inevitably. Human life is made up of a series of comparisons between ourselves and ours and the world around. What matters is mindset -- I think it's wonderful that children develop at different rates. Does the fact that my not quite 4 yo has developed a passion for chess make her better than anyone else? Of course not. But comparisons can prove useful; sometimes I see read about something another (not necessarily gifted) child has gone through that gives me insight into her mind or helps me understand her needs or just suggest something she might enjoy.

GATE, TAG, GT, etc. programs are another issue entirely. Most use group achievement tests rather than something that measures potential, like IQ tests, as criteria for admission, thereby missing the underachievers. Highly gifted kids (HG, EG and PG) of all races often don't make the cut because of this. Giftedness and achievement are not synonomous. I think most of us know parents for whom the label GT confers some status. In some districts, entire GT programs are populated by moderately gifted kids who would probably be better served in a regular classroom with a more challenging curriculum. As I said, this is a separate issue entirely from the existence of gifted kids and how early you can resonably suspect some children are gifted.

As for identifying gifted children at a young age; yes, I believe you can with some children. I was reasonably confident by about 15 months of age that DD1 was gifted because of her verbal and symbolic precocity (with the obligatory, "the absence of which does not mean a child isn't gifted"). By 2 I was started to get an idea of degree. OTOH I don't know about DD2, 16 mo, and I'm in no rush to label her either way.


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## pixiexto (Mar 6, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NoHiddenFees*
If you take the time to read the "other" thread

But Why? I do not place value on the label; why would I spend time reading?

Tribal groups are support groups, right? For those that share similar goals, values, circumstances. I am happy that they are there for those who are interested, but just as I don't enter into the Alaska/Hawaii tribal group, why read this one?

That others may like to use the label to describe a set of characteristics rather than to benefit their children, this is not my business. I am only sharing another perspective.


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *pixiexto*
That others may like to use the label to describe a set of characteristics rather than to benefit their children, this is not my business. I am only sharing another perspective.

That is so insulting (and untrue). Yes, I'm very invested in doing what does NOT benefit my child. I'm selfish like that.









May I gently suggest that you have no idea what challenges and issues my child has dealt with that led his parents to learn about what "gifted" means? I have given a mind-blowing amount of thought to the label, its characteristics and its issues, with ONLY the well-being of my child in mind. I've also investigated hyperlexia, apraxia and Asperger's, among others. I'm going to try that one with parents of children with Asperger's: you may use this label to describe a set of characteristics rather than to benefit your child.


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## LeftField (Aug 2, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *NoHiddenFees*
As for identifying gifted children at a young age; yes, I believe you can with some children. I was reasonably confident by about 15 months of age that DD1 was gifted because of her verbal and symbolic precocity (with the obligatory, "the absence of which does not mean a child isn't gifted"). By 2 I was started to get an idea of degree. OTOH I don't know about DD2, 16 mo, and I'm in no rush to label her either way.

I'm adding this only for the sake of the argument of "the absence of early speech doesn't mean the absence of giftedness", because some people took issue with the early speech thing.

My child didn't speak until 22 months, unless you count, "Dada", and "dissie (nursie)". But he was reading the fine-print off the back of Hallmark cards before then, like identifying the sounds of individual letters. There were other things, but that's an example of a non-verbal skill in this area. Similar to you, we don't know about ds2. And similar to you, we don't really care about the label for him right now (even if he is gifted), because he doesn't have the issues that our oldest did. I'm actually relieved that he seems to fit right in wherever he goes, he doesn't have the sensory issues, he's not delayed in gross motor skills, etc etc. By the way, I think they're both the most wonderful children in the entire universe, regardless of what they're like. We're finding the label-that-shall-not-be-named to be very useful in meeting of the needs of our oldest, but not necessary for our youngest so far. My kids are individuals and I treat them as such.


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## pixiexto (Mar 6, 2003)

LeftField (and others), I sincerely meant no offence. I'm sorry if you feel insulted. Chock it up to pre-coffee haste on my part? Or the age-old limitations of online communication?

Regardless...

I am only sharing my OWN opinion. I see it as a harmful label. I do not think anyone is trying to be harmful, nor do I assume that everyone will agree with me. It is simply my view. That is the beauty of discussion boards ~ sharing opinions, perhaps especially those that differ. If we all just "yeah that'd" ourselves, where would the discussion go?

Peace, Mama.


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## pixiexto (Mar 6, 2003)

BTW, when I said "others use the label to describe characteristics...", I was speaking in response to a reply made by another Mama who stated that she does not use the word "gifted" to label, but rather to describe unique characteristics. My comment was in relation to that particular comment.


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## ayme371 (Jan 5, 2005)

SMUM said:


> No offense, but the prob with teachers and intelligence is for a teacher, the intelligence of each child must be accessible to them in a format that they find acceptable.
> 
> I do not agree with this statement. Teachers work very hard to view each student as a unique individual and to assess thier strengths and needs based on this. Most teachers are trained to meet the needs of their students by differentiating instruction. We do not expect children to fit into a cookie cutter mold and do not want them to.
> 
> ...


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## Hazelnut (Sep 14, 2005)

Well I admit, I chuckled at the title, and in real life I find it very off-putting when people brag about how smart their child is. And it's not because it's offensive, or hurts my feelings. I think my child is very smart too, and I'm not threatened by other kids' accomplishments. I also know that intelligence can manifest itself in different ways (i.e. my son was not verbal at an early stage, but he was so observant and seemed to remember everything, so he has always struck me as smart). Someone made a good point that individual examples of brightness, be they quirky or just something a parent takes pride in is fine to share. That's different to me than just generally bragging about HOW SMART their child is. That's just a cliche I'd like to avoid, even though I think my kid is smart and wonderful himself.


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## `guest` (Nov 20, 2001)

I am sorry if I offended, I know teaching is hard. But can a teacher really get to know each child? Of course not. They have groups of 20 sometimes 30 small children...I'm not saying that it is the teacher's fault, it's just inherent in the school system. And of course, no teacher can really get to know a child the way a mother does. That is why the bridge between child and parent is important. I love my child's teacher, she is amazing and wonderful. But she relies on empirical evidence as that is all she has.


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## dallaschildren (Jun 14, 2003)

I think it's sad that the OP felt she should apologize in advance, for sharing and celebrating her daughter's brilliance. Don't apologize for a thing. I think it's great.









From a mama of a "gifted" 5 yo and a 2 yo that seems to be taking after his big brother.


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## soladeo (Feb 19, 2005)

Two cliches I think are pertinent here: damned if you do and damned if you don't! and You can't win fer losin'.









My DH and I were considered "gifted" in school, though he certainly reached his potential more than me. He is also quite athletic, and our DS seems to have recieved the best of our family's genes. It is scary to watch sometime, because he's quick and smart, and I can see the "devilishness" in him that needs to be thwarted. (It doesn't help that we probably teach him things he shouldn't learn like saying "Get out" from Seinfeld, and "I said, GOOD DAY!" from Family Guy.









Anyway, living in a very small town, and being a pastor's wife, we get TONS of unsolicited advice and gobs of questions about our son's development. I try to tone down his accomplishments with some people because they are looking to cause trouble- ie- he's either "slow" or we're braggers. Actually, the only people we talk to about his abilities are his grandparents- who believe he is THE MOST BRILLIANT CHILD EVER TO GRACE THE PLANET, and another friend who has expressed the belief that some soap opera-ish gene swapping took place during his conception and that this boy is actually hers.

But seriously, I guess what I'm trying to say is that no matter what you do, for some it just won't be right, so -screw it. I mean, I do think it's important to be sensitive, but I know there have been times when I've had hurt feelings from comments not meant to hurt, and have done the same. Not to be rude, but -and I have had to learn this the hard way- sometimes people need to thicken their skin up. We Americans are so concerned about hurting other's feelings that it's like walking on eggshells through every conversation. And we parents are the WORST! Children all have different developments, and many will shoot ahead and then suddenly seem to be behind in one thing or another.

My husband said something to his cousin that I really liked, and use often when I get comments about my son. To explain, my DH's cousin's child and our DS are a month apart. Our DS started walking at 9 mos, while my the cousin's child has yet to walk at 15mos (now). She once made a comment wishing her child would walk. My DH said, "At 5, it will make no difference when our kids walked or talked." God, I love my DH!


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## Mommay (Jul 29, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mollyeilis*
I also wanted to say that it really seems weird, that so many women here are basically trying to get another woman to not praise her child for accomplishments, and adding in that the child of the OP is female...well, it just feels like oppression to me. Keep the girl down, don't let her think highly of herself for knowledge.....

I don't *think* that's in anyone's head, but it's having the same result.

I know if my husband were having this convo with his male friends, they would be celebrating the child's accomplishments, and then each of them would share what their own child can do. There wouldn't be any defensiveness of "my child can't do that" or "don't label her" etc, there would just be pure joy for each chid's accomplishments.

It's really weird, to hear women talking this way.


Wha? Wha? Wha? Aren't you the one throwing around bad stereotypes when you say men would celebrate the child's accomplishments, and that only we, hen-picking, petty women would not. I'm offended.


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