# I entered this forum prepared to ask for defences for not CIO (more and long...)



## mama22 (Feb 28, 2004)

but I'm glad I logged on because I feel a bit more grounded. Every once in awhile(more often than not as of late) I feel like I'm spinning my wheels and don't know which way to go.

DD is almost 7 months old. She is not a bad night sleeper (anywhere from 2 to 6 times a night) but is a horrible napper. Even when she is tired the worst I can say about her is that she doesn't smile and that she fusses mildly. When she is well rested she could charm a snake into dancing a jig - she is contagiously sweet.

I feel so confused about the sleep /not sleeping issue. At what point does missing out on much needed sleep become unfair to a child? I've read a mountain of sleep books including NCSS - but dds issues are not really nighttime issues and her nap suggestions have not worked at all. The latest book I've read is "Happy Child Healthy Sleep Habit" by Dr. Marc Weissbluth. He offers some info on sleep and devotes most of the book to persuading parents to allow babe to CIO. I've got to admit that some of the info has made me think twice. Not the stuff about it being okay for babe to cry alone but the stuff about the effects of sleep deprivation on children. I do think that this is significant and needs to be addressed.

I am an AP mom. I wore both of my kids when they were younger (ds was extremely colicky and NEVER slept - night or day - and is now 3 1/2 years), co slept with ds until I was pregnant with dd, bf until he was 2 1/2 etc. Ds still wakes up several times a night, cannot sleep alone which for me is an issue because I have not had a full night sleep with dh for two years ( I cannot sleep with dh and the children - I am up all night because I am such a light sleeper). Right now dh sleeps with ds after his first night waking, and until tonight I slept with dd.

As of tonight I have borrowed a crib and dd is sleeping in it right now - at least until she wakes up. We are planning on actively working on ds's night waking and going to figure out how to get him to sleep alone (any suggestions?)

The info about ds is just to explain why I am so worried about dd's sleeping. Part of me thinks this will change, but I've met people who have said that their kids NEVER settled into better nap patterns. This is not good for children. They do not learn as well and they do not have the opportuntiy to flourish.

I wish that I had read Elizabeth Pantley's book before my children were born because I would definitely have chosen to put my children down more often - especially when they were sleeping. I like many of William Sears's ideas, but I believe he is not helping parents by encouraging constant baby wearing and carrying without some sort of warning that this may lead to poor sleeping habits later on. Or maybe it's just genetics and I have really bad sleep genes.

I started this day thinking that I would let dd CIO, not because I need it but because I think she is not thriving because of her sleep deprivation. I think that this is why many parents choose to let their children CIO - it is not always just for themselves but because of a genuine belief that they are doing the best for their children.

At this point I have no idea what to do except to tell myself that this too shall pass. I am very sorry for the rant.


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## davidspalding (Sep 23, 2003)

hang in there, mama22. reading all you have and doing all you can (and have done) is more than a lot of parents have been willing to do. brava!!







though this month's set of problems will no doubt be usurped by next month's, and the next's, every seemingly insurmountable challenge and obstacle and frustration we've had with our 17 mo old has faded away and been replaced by giggles and laughs and new skills the next morning (usually). i've had to count on it in times of need.

if nothing else, get yourself some down time and recharging, i found some nights that i was able to let dd CIO in my arms, or sling, for an hour, and she would eventually tucker out, and fall asleep in my arms while i sang or cooed or recited a story ... *infinitely better than CIO in a crib with an obnoxious Vtech toy gurgling on the rail for company* while mom and dad eat chips and guac' with headphones on, watching a movie. blech. i treasure the nights that i suffered her screams and squirms and kicks in my arms, and through it all she still heard daddy's voice, felt daddy's arms, and knew that daddy cared enough to be there. someday, i'll reap the reward of this kind of compassion.*

* actually, i already do. at 17 months, she already shows compassion and sensitivity for other toddlers who are shy, or unhappy, or ill at ease.


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## lauraess (Mar 8, 2002)

Davidspalding: oh that was sooo sweet and soo well-said.
Im a co-sleeping parent , we went thru our tough times in the beginning w/ ds who was much like your son moma2-- slept in short bursts, only would sleep with someone right there. I think things got easier when we used the side-car crib and when We got into a routine of naps during the day. I also struggled with the concern of our sleeping arrangement and do believe strongly that until I settled into accepting the arrangement and believed that all would be okay , I did not sleep well and that is torture.
When ds was 2 dad slept near him so we could nite wean--- that worked. When ds was 2 and a half I layed w/him to nap in the afternoons and cherished it. when dd came she got the sidecar crib and ds got a bed made by dh and put right there in his spot.
ds is still a sleeper that kicks and must be right on the person next to him--- be it ddaddy or nana or pop-pop on date nites, but I believe it will all work out and one day he will love his own room---then i'll probably miss our family bed. We love it. At night or in the mornings I often have my mushy moment when I just love our family so much and we can say goodnite to eachother and its just like on the WALTONS except we're all together:LOL

so, hope this sleeping thing somehow works out for you.
Laura


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## lauraess (Mar 8, 2002)

Moma2: I want to ask: have you read Tine Thevin (sp?) the family bed?
I appreciate your reading so many books on the subject as i am an avid reader of these type of books for parents too but also for myself have learned that the need to control our childrens sleep habits lends itself to the so-called professionals desire to tell us what to do about our "problem". This "Problem" has been around for a long long time and many kids have thrived and flourished even tho they are still learning to sleep like us great adult sleepers:LOL
i dont mean to chide you just am personally convinced that the experts are too many and the advice from mothers'heart too few.

Laura


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## TeaBag (Dec 18, 2003)

> _Originally posted by davidspalding_
> [ though this month's set of problems will no doubt be usurped by next month's, and the next's,
> 
> I completely agree. And this is something I need to remind myself of almost daily. I tend to look at the *problems* either one of two ways, I either get caught up in the moment and frantically think I HAVE to *fix* it, or I think "It will be like this FOREVER...." If there's one thing my spirited 5 y.o and my easy going toddler have taught me, it's things change soooo quickly with children. I am tandem nursing my 20 month old and my 6 month old and my dh is deployed and while we have our days of naptime struggles(yesterday!!!) and our nights of bedtime struggles (two days ago!!), I find that if I can remind myself how temporary this is, and how giving them this grounding, this healthy start in life will help them so much in the long term, I tend to deal with things so much better. (How was that for a run-on sentence?! LOL!)
> ...


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## kate-astrophe (Jan 26, 2004)

My dd went through a phase from about six month until about 11 months where she would never nap more than 20 minutes, and never without me. I was eventually about to get her to sleep longer by keeping her in the living room on the futon so I could nurse her quickly before she woke completely. It took a LONG time, but now, at 17 months, she almost always naps at least an hour at a time.

During this time she almost always sleep deprived. Nevertheless, she still thrived. In fact, she seemed to hit major milestones when she was *most* sleep deprived.

Whatever the effects of sleep deprivation on children, the effects of the sleep program Weissbluth recommends is much worse. His own son, as a toddler, would bang his head against the crib bars to soothe himself to sleep. Yeah, a really healthy sleep habit. I'd much rather endure sleep deprivation. Weissbluth bases his conclusions on the research conducted on babies who sleep alone. What is true for solitary sleepers doesn't neccessarily hold true for babies who regularly sleep in contact with another person, since the act of sleeping next to someone else changes the sleep pattern.

Everyone I know who followed Weissbluth became very paranoid about naps and sleep. He seems very rigid about "right" ways to have a good nap, no slings, no motion like cars or strollers, no nursing during sleep. It didn't seems that natural to me.

IMO, some babies go through a phase like this in the part of the process of learning how to sleep. There is much happening in those brains that their sleep is bound to be erratic. I don't know how I would have made it through dd's napless phase if I didn't use my sling. If I was always trying to get her to lie in a crib and nap for hours, frustration would have driven me out of my mind. It was easier for me to accept the situation and get her some naps in any way she would take them.

Good luck and hang in there!

-Kate


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

I had a terrible sleeper (my 2nd and it definitely effected how I chose to address sleep with my third). It is a downward spiral and it is bad for the child. I couldn't believe the diference when she finally started sleeping. She was quite a sweet child. :LOL who knew. We really thought she was just a crabby soul. poor baby. I feel like we both missed out on so much. On the down side I tried CIO with her and it had no effect. She would only sleep if I help her which I just couldn't do and remain sane most days (I need touch free time to be rational and nice)

There are some other options to helping them sleep while not leaving them alone in the room to cry. Even if they are crying you can stay with them. touch them and remind them that you love them and sleep is good for them. then slowly remove yourself once they start falling asleep. also routien routien routien. I can't stress this enough. Our nap routien is fairly simple but makes all the difference.
1. change diaper (even if it isn't wet)
2. hug and kiss on the way to the bed in the darkest room in the house.
3. Sing the nap song as I lay her down (now its time to take a nap, take a nap take a nap. now its time to take a nap it is the afternoon. I will come and wake you up, wake you up . . . . very very soon)
4. "good night sleep baby" - which are our que words and are used everytime she is put to bed.
5. one more quick kiss and then leave the room very cheerily.

She usually fusses a bit but no more than few minutes or so. If she isn't ready tp sleep she may roam around and play in bed but has never cried and carried on for very lkong. MAybe once or twice when she was overstimulated or too tired.

Try to make the room dark and the house quiet. At least while they are falling asleep.

Make sure they are getting enough rest at night but not too much.

If you want to PM I can give you more details of exactly what we did. COnsistancy was key though

Good luck. This too may pass but why not try to help your child be reasted, healthy and happy as soon as possible. If I had had a single inkling about what to do with Lily when she was so tired and misreable I would have done it. Anything. Her sleeplessness caused physical injuries, weight loss and developmental regression. and she was so unhappy. One day of that is to much to wait for it to pass.


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## Suzetta (Dec 21, 2003)

Mama 22

Please do not think that parents who practice CIO are sleeping happily everafter with no problems. Their kids wake up often too...but the parents have taught them that crying does not get them anything. Some just cry and get ignored, and others learn not to bother. Is this what you want for your dc?

I have a friend who does CIO and her son still goes through the stages folks discuss here, with frequent wakings etc., and she regularly has to re-do the whole CIO stuff to remind him that facts of life at her house.

I would suggest that instead of forcing a nap, that you have two one hour periods during the day where everybody has complete down time. They can either lay down in bed or sit on the couch with you...your choice. That way, if they are tired, they will get some rest, and maybe even fall asleep.I think that kids who nap well are doing so out of habit. When my dd was just born, I started napping her every day twice a day. Now she just falls asleep at nap time without a problem.


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## davidspalding (Sep 23, 2003)

great idea, Suzetta. there have been days when i *just could NOT* get dd down for a nap, but we spent, like, 45 minutes or more with her curled in my lap, very quiet and snuggly, looking at a book with me, or cooing, or just turning an object over in her grasp,... and a little voice in my head says, "okay then, she didn't *nap*, but she has had almost an hour of quiet, contented time on your lap, no excitement, no stress, no exhausting activity -- and she's happy ... how is this a Bad Thing?"


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## Liz (Mar 8, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mama22_
*I like many of William Sears's ideas, but I believe he is not helping parents by encouraging constant baby wearing and carrying without some sort of warning that this may lead to poor sleeping habits later on.*
I agree with this statement (ducking). Not all babies need to be worn. This is why I always describe AP as "responding to your child's needs" rather than "slinging, co-sleeping, breastfeeding, not CIO" etc. I did not sling my son because he did not seem to need it. And he was always a solid 3 hour napper.

I'm not saying slinging always causes sleep problems. I'm not saying slinging is unneccesary. I'm saying not all babies need to be slinged and slinging a baby that doesn't need it can disturb sleep patterns.


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## DaryLLL (Aug 12, 2002)

Mama22










Welcome to mdc. The moms above have offered some good ideas.

One thing that pops out at me is, you say you, too, are a light sleeper. Perhaps it is genetic. You say you like to sleep next to your dh yet want your ds to sleep alone.

How did you sleep as a child? Were you left to CIO? Do you remember?

If a light sleeping child is left to CIO, what kind of ideas is he getting about trust and his place in the world?

Just being philosophical/psychological here.

We got a bigger bed. A twin and a double pushed together on the floor. we had it until our kids willingly left the big bed. It had room for 3 kids and me and dh.

Good luck! Do what your heart tells you is right for you and your family.


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## mama22 (Feb 28, 2004)

for the record i know i could never let my sweet dd cio. it's just downright disheartening to have 2 for 2 poor sleepers.

i'd also like to explain that her poor napping means 20 minute naps - if i'm lucky. i have already tried several of the suggestions. It doesn't matter if i drive with her, hold her, try to nap with her wear her, whatever. it's like clockwork that her eyes pop open and she can't wait to move onto something new.

i know consistency is important too, but i live in a climate where the winter is inhospitable. i can't go for walks on a whim, so going out usually means a fairly involved procedure (car, winter clothes, etc). for awhile i stayed at home waiting for those "windows" to put dd to sleep, but after having my 3 year old ds climbing the walls (and me too) for 10 or 20 minutes of sleep i gave up and have begun just going out. not great for consistency, i know.

i would love to have all of us sleep in the same room, and dh and i have seriously considered it, except that ds and dd would definitely be waking eachother up (ds does not wake quietly), and dd is up at 5:30 in the am.

i don't mean to sound whiny. i have a wonderful and healthy famiily that i cherish with all of my heart. it's just been a challenging five months.

finally, point taken about wanting ds to sleep alone but me wanting to sleep with dh. i do believe, however, that it's all about balance, and while it is so important to realize that these years are few and precious, i also believe that it is important to maintain a solid relationship with one's partner. that old adage - if you aren't nourishing and nurturing yourself (and your relationship) you can't do the same for those around you.

again, thanks. i'd love to hear more thoughts


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Winter is inhospitible here (OK it is down right nasty and God forsaken and I am sorry I ever moved here







) but I did just snap at one point and decide we weren't going anywhere if it interupted nap. And it really sucked for a hwile but we have gotten used to it. Even our homeschool group has jumped on board and either doesn't schedule things during Avas naps or someone offers to pick up the older kids (I have such great friends







). My older girls are banished to the play room and the rath of mo=mmy would be upon them if they dared come down the stairs withanything other than thier lightest steps and softest whispers. Once she got on a rythem and naps were going well we could start fudging agin but now we are total home bodies so it is a non issue. :LOL

Good luck. I do not think you are whining. Anyone who has lived with a child who won't sleep can totally understand. And just for the record my first was a champion napper. It didn't make it any easier to have a non napper with the next one. It actually made it harder because I knew what a well rested child looked like. And it also took a long tim e for me to break out of the "well this worked for Madeline . . why isn't it working for Lily". This *way* works, I just know it" pattern so it was hard to change and find what worked for her.

Good luck., And keep working on it. You have lots of napping months ahead of you and even if it takes six months to get him into nap mode it will be worth it.


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## Alvenchrst (Feb 3, 2003)

I have a very good friend who is totally AP and she even gave me Dr. Sears for a shower. Needless to say she is having the exact same problems as you. You are not alone! I know what you mean about how baby wearing for some babies can make them dependant on being heald to continue sleeping, but you of course are moving which will inevitably wake them up, and thus a short nap. I think you are right on about a child's need for healthy sleep and as you said balance in your own life. I know my guy (5 months too) gets soooo cranky when he hasn't had a good nap. I do not believe that CIO is emotionally damaging to babies if it is done right, but regardless you are so right to follow your own instinct. If you really done feel right about CIO then follow you gut, it is the best tool you have.

All that to say I am certainly no expert but I will sugest two things, which may or may not work, but I hope it helps. Possibly consider CIO in your arms. Some babies need to realese a little energy before sleep. It is hard to hear our babies cry no matter what, but it might work for you b/c you will be right there with your baby comforting her. Even if this is hard, if it does work for you and your baby, take heart in knowing that you are doing what's best for you and your baby and allowing her to get more sleep. I find that if DS cries even a little before a nap, wether I'm holding him or not, he sleeps much more soundly. The other thing is that if you make sure she is really tired and try to stretch her awake time longer and longer, then hopefully her nap time will also be longer and more quality.

My other suggestion is maybe try your traditional methods of putting her to sleep, then layer her in her crib for her "20 minute nap." Just sit there in a chair and wait for her to wake up. Then try to gently put her back to sleep perhaps with a pacifier or tummy rubbing, or maybe even a little rocking. Try to keep her in that half asleep mode if you can. This may be time consuming, but perhaps you can get her to go back to sleep easily.

Wow, those were a long 2 suggestions, Sorry!







I don't know if any of these will help, but it can't hurt to brainstrom right.







One last thing I thought of is DS kept waking early from naps b/c of a noisey house. I finally put a radio in his room and put in on real soft to possitive music and I slowly turned up the volume over a few weeks. Now he is used to sleeping with more noise so some of our household noises don't bother him so much.

Good luck!


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## sntm (Jan 1, 2004)

I've enjoyed reading this thread -- thanks to everyone who posted. I sometimes question myself about how I nighttime parent -- I believe instinctively that allowing my baby to cry unconsoled is not healthy and I've read both expert opinion and one psychological study that supports that.

But I do believe that sleep is important and necessary (thank you, 80-hour work week!) and I worry that my DS's sleep habits are getting worse. He's turning 9 months so separation anxiety + learning to crawl is wrecking his going to sleep at night (which was the one sleep thing he used to do perfectly!)

Thanks for reminding me that (1) he might do that even if I let him CIO or stay the whole night in his crib and (2) there are worse things than sleep deprivation.


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## cottonwood (Nov 20, 2001)

What are your instincts telling you? I never have read Dr. Sears' book, and don't think I want to. Seems a little extreme and unrealistic, dare I say even unnatural. What feels natural to me is that when my children need physical contact with me, I give it to them. It is that simple. Sometimes they don't need it. I don't get the whole constant contact thing. The baby needs to feel not abandoned, not rejected, not resented. Can a baby be physically separated from its mother and not feel those things? Of course. All of us who have set happy babies down, and they continued to be perfectly happy, know this. The problems occur when the baby _needs_ some kind of interaction with the mother and is denied it. This is what happens with CIO and other forms of denial of a baby's needs, and the obvious psychological effect is going to be emotional detachment and neurosis and stunted emotional growth.

So what I am thinking is that maybe you've just gone too far to one extreme. Have you had your babies next to you constantly because it _felt_ right, because you were compelled to by instinct, or did you do it because somebody told you it would create a happy, healthy, well-adjusted baby? Is it just possible that doing *anything* only because "it is the rule" makes for a negative energy dynamic? I think so. Maybe you've been undermining your and your baby's ability to know what the both of you _really_ need, by choosing perfunctory, prescribed actions over spontaneous ones. Of course, following any other rule of "correct" parenting is going to have the same result. There is no trick, no secret best way that only the experts know about. The *only* best way for you is something that is already inside you, something that feels right and harmonious and natural in your gut.

I can guarantee that it isn't going to be anything that makes your child feel isolated from you or abandoned emotionally. But it may very well not look like Sears' vision of AP either.

What does this mean for your sleeping arrangement? I don't know. But there are other options besides constant contact or CIO!


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## captain optimism (Jan 2, 2003)

We have a "poor napper." The most important thing for him to get naps is for him to have a reasonable bedtime. Any night that he goes down after 9 PM, he has terrible trouble napping the next day. I try to keep in mind that it feels hard to HIM not to nap, that he wants to sleep but can't relax.

I usually don't do the naps because I'm at work. When I am the nap person (like on the weekend) I nurse him down on the bed and often sleep with him for awhile. My dh is the regular nap promoter. He does a very ritualized rocking to music, the same music every day. Then he puts the baby in his crib when he's asleep. (We used to put him on the bed then too, but he got scarily mobile!) My son has come to expect to fall asleep during the music, and willing lays his head on his dad's shoulder when the music starts up. I've rocked him this way a few times.

When we have been out of town, I have nursed the baby in my lap and put him down to sleep on the floor on a blanket.

At 9 months my son's sleeping was at its nadir. Now he seems to know that we have a routine and that he will fall asleep. It's important for the baby to know that he will be able to go to sleep, to expect sleep and comfort.


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## Alvenchrst (Feb 3, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by sntm_
*I believe instinctively that allowing my baby to cry unconsoled is not healthy and I've read both expert opinion and one psychological study that supports that.*

Quote:

_Originally posted by blueviolet_
*This is what happens with CIO and other forms of denial of a baby's needs, and the obvious psychological effect is going to be emotional detachment and neurosis and stunted emotional growth.*
I am very interested to see some links or sources to some of these studies and expert opinions. Blueviolet where did you get that CIO will cause neurosis and stunted emotional growth? I know that Mama22 wanted a defense for why not to use CIO and I'm sure the source of some of your info would be helpful to her and myself. I would love to do some further study!

Thank you.


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## carrietorgc (Sep 16, 2003)

try this link to a harvard study on cio:

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1998/04.09/ChildrenNeedTou.html


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## Alvenchrst (Feb 3, 2003)

I could not pull up the link you gave. Thanks for the thought though!


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

ok... don't kill me! i went through the same thing w/ my son, and i ended up using the swing my mom had bought us (he loved it!)... i'd put him in it, he'd fall right asleep (even if i had spent hours holding him, rocking, singing, etc to no avail)... and i'd be so exhausted i'd fall asleep on the floor next to him. we both were able to get naps that way, and i didn't feel like i was abandoning him (since i was right next to him the whole time).

i wish you all the best of luck! kids do need sleep, even when they refuse to let themselves fall asleep.

just my 2 cents.


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## Alvenchrst (Feb 3, 2003)

Well I finally found the link. It was alright. Just a few people with similiar degrees I have postulating about what babies need. I would love to hear some more expert advice an actual research. They only mentioned CIO once and it was more a article about how American parenting practices are generally too independant, which I whole heartedly agree with. It would be a mildly useful article for cosleeping. This article was more talking about the failure of babies to attatch at all could lead to further abnormal pathologies.

Sorry if this wasn't at all what you were looking for mama22. I really don't want to hi-jack your thread. If you would rather not discuss this just let me know!


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## Mona (May 22, 2003)

Alvenchrst

If you are serious for your quest in finding info on how CIO is detrimental both phsically and emotionally to children, read:
Our Babies Ourselves
The Continuum Cocept
The Magical Child

just for starters.

You can also do a search for CIO on this site, and find loads of information, and personal accounts on how CIO messed their children up emotionally.


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## davidspalding (Sep 23, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by carrietorgc_
*try this link to a harvard study on cio:

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/...enNeedTou.html*
*great* article! but the MDC software corrupted the link, which i've corrected above, and *here*.

Quote:

Children Need Touching and Attention, Harvard Researchers Say
By Alvin Powell

Contributing Writer

America's "let them cry" attitude toward children may lead to more fears and tears among adults, according to two Harvard Medical School researchers.

Instead of letting infants cry, American parents should keep their babies close, console them when they cry, and bring them to bed with them, where they'll feel safe, according to Michael L. Commons and Patrice M. ******, researchers at the Medical School's Department of Psychiatry....


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## Achelois72 (Aug 16, 2003)

It's not exactly a study, but this "position paper" from the Australian Association for Mental Health is interesting.

http://www.aeca.org.au/Controled%20Crying.pdf

HTH,
Susan


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## mollyeilis (Mar 6, 2004)

I think I have a different perspective that I'd like to share.

I was the "bad" napper in the family. I also hated going to bed. I was curious, and didn't like the feeling that there was something going on that I might miss.

My mom isn't around anymore to give me specifics, but I think she could count the number of naps I took as a kid on her hands. Later on she talked about it with a wistful look on her face, but the end result was the unique personality that is ME, so she couldn't complain too much.

I still don't like to nap, and I still like to stay up late. If I can I sleep in, too, but I don't always have to. OK so I have to right now, but that's b/c I'm pregnant and I think all those untaken naps caught up with me LOL.

Some kids are happy-go-lucky. Others are different. I'm the different one. I can be crabby (whether or not I've had sleep...actually I'm usually crabbiest when I do take my once-in-a-blue moon nap, I hate the feeling of a nap!), I can be sarcastic, and I can also be incredibly funny and charming (usually when I'm tired I'm at my "best"). I've always been like that, always. All of my family describes me in the same way, and everyone always says how I haven't changed at all.

So I'm glad my mom didn't try anything drastic with me. I'm glad she took what teensy naps I might have taken, and just figured out different things to do with me (I washed dishes at a very early age, for instance). I know I wore her out even into the teen years with my go-to-sleep and wake-up routine, but she usually left the room laughing along with me b/c I could get so silly.

I now crack up my hubby while going to sleep on a regular basis.

I read myself to sleep, and sometimes have to resort to a bit of verbal voodoo with myself by saying "I'm NEVER going to get to sleep ever again". Oddly, that usually puts me right out.

I guess my long-windedness is just to say, it might very well be her personality. I was, unfortunately, kicked out of mom's bed early due to her waterbed mattress (and b/c she had custody issues and tried to do everything by the book), and I missed sleeping with her terribly. I always sleep better with someone else there, and I always have. So your DD might be the same (perhaps your DS too). It might just be who she is.

My blunt opinion is that calling someone a 'bad napper/sleeper' is putting judgement where there should be none. If her eyes pop open at 20 minutes, IMO that's enough nap for her. Don't judge her, it's not fair. Who is to say what is enough sleep? My hubby can do perfectly well on 3 hours of sleep. He can wake utterly refreshed from a 20 minute nap (in fact he just took a 15 minute nap at work and felt 100% better when I called to wake him up). It's all just differences.

OK, that's enough outta me. I've said this kind of thing in another online community before and for some reason I was ignored. So that's ok if I'm ignored here. I don't have experience yet being the mom part of the equation, but I personally feel being the kid part of it carries bunches of weight as well, since I'm actually IN the body and mind of the non-napper!


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## BostonMama17 (Feb 4, 2004)

Quote:

_Originally posted by blueviolet_
*There is no trick, no secret best way that only the experts know about. The *only* best way for you is something that is already inside you, something that feels right and harmonious and natural in your gut.*
As a once-vigilant consumer of parenting literature, I've become so incensed with the so-called experts. The parenting industry feeds on our collective anxiety, producing generations of parents who no longer trust their instincts. It's taken me eight long months and many tears to realize that my son and I are just fine. The best 'sleep solution' for us has been to remain open, flexible, and loving. As BlueViolet astutely points out, there is no magic trick nor a single parenting approach that will work all of the time. I find that whenever I get to a boiling point with my son's current behavior, it changes. Know that what worked last night may not work tonight. That established patterns can spontaneously change--and that's okay. Trust that nature has designed this system perfectly, and that you and your baby are just right.

On a related note, I'm saddened to read so many descriptions of "bad" nappers and infant sleep "problems." As a culture, we seem bent on pathologizing (and judging) what is essentially normal behavior. At the risk of sounding reductive, babyhood is really tough. For parents _and_ babies. The world is confusing and unpredictable, sleep is elusive, needs are urgent. Perhaps the _real_ "problem" is that no one tells you this going in. We spend months preparing for childbirth, but no time preparing for parenthood. We're separated from families and thrust too soon back into jobs that don't support our needs. Worse still, we're encouraged to keep up appearances, complimented for looking great on only three hours of sleep a night. In other words, the less we show how hard it is, the better. Bless this space...


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## kate-astrophe (Jan 26, 2004)

Quote:

_Originally posted by mollyeilis_
*I was the "bad" napper in the family. I also hated going to bed. I was curious, and didn't like the feeling that there was something going on that I might miss.*
:LOL

That was me too. My infant sleep habits are legendary in my family. And guess what? My daughter is not a champion napper either, although she's better than I was. It gives me a different perspective on sleep, being a bad sleeper myself. I still have to lull myself to sleep every night, and I still wake up to take sips of whatever is on my bedside table. I find that we are so much happier, even on less sleep, when I just accept the way she is and work with whatever amount of nap and sleep she will take.

-Kate


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

Quote:

We spend months preparing for childbirth, but no time preparing for parenthood.


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## Mizelenius (Mar 22, 2003)

Haven't read all the responses, but just want to share . . .

My DD does NOT need a lot of sleep. She never has. She sounds a lot like your DD (though now at 25 months she gets a bit more crabby without enough sleep). Comparing her to any other child left me feeling frustrated. Now, to a certain extent, I feel lucky. No, she might not nap much or at all, she only gets about 10 hours sleep total (inc naps) per day, but she's generally in a good mood, she does great socially, she's very verbal, very creative, full of humor, etc. There are definitely times where she needs to sleep and she won't (which results in problems), but once I realized that "OH- she doesn't have sleep problems, she just doesn't need much sleep" life got easier for me.

Now, don't get me wrong. Sleep issues (nightwaking was a very, very bad issue) have caused many problems for us, even putting a strain on my marriage. I, too, wish I'd read Pantley's book while DD was a newborn (instead of at a year) because I'd have tried different things. However, maybe things would be the same. Maybe they'd be worse. They might be better, but like others have said, it's so wise to listen to your voice, study your situation, and not let fear creep in with doubts!


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