# Has anyone dealt with nipple confusion before and won?



## Luv2bemommy (Oct 26, 2005)

My baby is 5 weeks old and we have had issues from the very beginning. He was a great nurser the first few days, his suck was so strong by the 3rd day I already had cracked bleeding nipples. While in the hospital, I had the LC's to come in each day to watch me breastfeed and they said everything was great. They don't know the reason why I got the bleeding, cracked nipples other then my skin is real sensitive. So, I came home on Friday, Saturday we both got thrush and we have been fighting that up until this last week. I gave a bottle that following Monday and thats where all my problem started. He got nipple confusion, would fuss at the breast and pull back when I would try to feed him, I kept offering him the breast though and pumping every 2-3 hours all day. Well, Last week I got to the point where I can't do it anymore, it was wearing me down. Plus to add I have FOUR children and it is a lot of work and it just had me in the dumps. So I decided I tried my best and that was that.. So, it's been a week and I'm already regretting this big time.. I still have milk but I know it's very little since I stopped nursing and pumping basically. I have offered him the breast 1-2 times this past week, he will suck for a second or two but then goes to sleep. I offered it to him as a comfort thing, he wasn't hungry then..

So that is where I'm at now. I don't want to give up, I just want to nurse! I don't know where to start though, he is taking 4 oz of formula at a time. Is it too late now he is 5 weeks old? Anyone in my situation and won this battle? Anyone have their baby go fully back to breast and never had to supplement again after your baby learned to nurse?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

It's not too late, but you MUST eliminate the bottles.

Keep him at the breast. Take a weekend and do nothing but lay in bed and nurse. Give supplements with an sns or lactaid at the breast if at all possible. If not do cup feeding, syringe feeding or finger feeding- instructions are at www.kellymom.com Follow directions there for eliminating supplements.

Nurse at least every 2 hours and pump then as well.

You CAN do this. My nipples were hamburger with dd. It got better.

-Angela


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## HappyGoLucky (Jan 8, 2007)

Wow, Luv2beMommy, you are doing a great job. That LO is so lucky you are his Mommy. It sounds like things got a little overwhelming with the sore nipples, thrush and trying to balance the needs of 3 other children. But, it's not too late. You can get your breastfeeding relationship back on track. I'd recommend that you contact a local La Leche League Leader for support. My son didn't latch to the breast at all until he was 6 weeks old. I did pump the whole time, but I'm sure with proper guidance you can get your milk supply back and get him latching correctly.

Keep up the good work Momma.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

I fought nipple confusion and won, at three weeks old. Here's what we did:
1. no artificial nipples. Just get rid of them.
2. Find a really good lactation consultant to guide you through, and keep close tabs on the baby's weight gain.
3. Pump regularly night and day to maintain your supply. Feed this milk to baby by alternative methods like a cup, spoon, dropper, syringe, or a feeding tube taped to your finger.
4. Have lots of skin to skin cuddling and contact with baby. Offer to nurse frequently, but don't push if baby refuses. Sleep with your baby all night.
5. As soon as baby will latch again, use a supplemental nurser to give babe "instant gratification" for any suckling efforts.

According to my LC, a young baby will return to the breast within just a few days if you are persistent about "no artificial nipples." With my son, it was three days before he was latching again, and two weeks before he'd nurse without the SNS.

oh, I should have added that you can get a referreal to a LC in your area on Medela's web site. http://medela.findlocation.com/


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## Luv2bemommy (Oct 26, 2005)

See, he will latch on but he just fusses and pulls off and wants to go down to the very tip end of my nipple too, which is killer. I really need the larger SNS but can't seem to find one but I do have one of those smaller one that holds like 1-2 oz at a time I'm using. I'm just worried that he takes 4oz of formula now he won't ever get back to solely on the breast. 4oz is a lot of milk!

Another thing, since he has been on the breast since yesterday I think I still have thrush.. *sigh* My nipples have turned pink again and they burn and are sore.. We have treated this several ways and we have almost done everything!


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

He will never go back to the breast if you don't eliminate the bottles. That's why he's sucking wrong at the breast. He needs to relearn the correct way to suck.

You CAN do this!

-Angela


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## arlecchina (Jul 25, 2006)

been there nearly word for word, dear, had to express milk for almost 8 weeks due to severe pain of thrush the dr wasnt treating properly, I did give him the milk in bottles and he continued having probs latching at the breast (flat nipples as well) but every night I made sure to nurse him at the breast as many times as I could take it so he wouldnt forget, after all the pain healed (at about 12 weeks) after a rough day or two we were fine.

he never DID prefer the bottle though, not at all, he'd drink his milk and cry afterwards because he wanted his boobie, just had probs actually latching but no rejection, just both of us crying in frustration a lot (him not latching and me from the pain)


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## Luv2bemommy (Oct 26, 2005)

He hasn't had a bottle at all today, he had one real early this morning but I was half asleep and just made him one, didn't even think about nursing and doing the sns thing. THIS HURTS. My nipples are burning as I type, I just finished nursing him with the SNS and I am almost in tears now because I don't know how I am going to get through this. I don't even know how I will manage the next feeding much less the next few weeks. It's hard getting the SNS right and that is what frustrates us both first off, he is tangled up in the tubing and I'm trying to unwrap his hands from it and he is trying to suck on anything that he can get near because he is hungry and then getting the tubing and breast in. URGH He then wants to pull down on the nipple.. I don't know how to correct that other then to take him off and put him back, meaning I have to re-adjust the tubing each time. It's a pain in the butt, is there any other way to do this???

I go back and forth, I can do this, I can't.. I feel like like the worst mother for stopping to begin with and even starting a bottle and screwing all of this up. It is just so easy to give up and give him a bottle so I won't have to hear him cry and fuss. I don't know what to do.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

You might try to do some nursings without the sns if you thing he's not hungry. Easier and will increase your supply.

The burning pain makes me wonder about thrush. It may not be gone.

He has to learn how to latch correctly- things will get MUCH easier once he has that figured out.

good luck!

-Angela


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

The SNS can drive you nuts. It's really fiddly, especially when babe insists on yanking at the tubing or trying to use it like a straw without latching on properly. You can put socks on his hands to minimize the grabbing, or even swaddle if that helps to keep down the wiggling. That's what I always did with DS, and then once he was latched on well and drinking, I'd loosen the swaddle to keep him awake.

Another thing that helped me was to lower the level of the SNS to below my nipple so that he really had to suck correctly to get milk. Or alternatively, waiting to see that he was latched and sucking well, and rewarding him by squeezing the SNS to get a fast flow, to kinda simulate a real letdown.


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## Luv2bemommy (Oct 26, 2005)

YES! The SNS drives me INSANE.. I really really hate using it. It's seriously like a fight to get it in and keep it in! Ryan has his hands all up next to his mouth and he is pulling it out as I try to get him to latch on, or I will get him latched on right and then he will pull it out and then cry because he isnt getting milk fast enough. It's a real PITA.

I know this is thrush, no doubt. It's worse then it ever was before, a friend of mine said to use plain monistat on my nipples and in his mouth.. I just might do that.


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## kdtmom2be (Aug 26, 2006)

Can you send your DH to the drug store? Get him to go out and buy a few rolls of medical tape and tape down the tubing if you can, to YOU if necessary, to keep baby from tugging at it and/or getting tangled. Tape the tube to your boob.

I don't know if it will make the nipple confusion worse or not but what is the opinion here on nipple shields? That might help if you still have thrush to reduce the pain.


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kdtmom2be* 
I don't know if it will make the nipple confusion worse or not but what is the opinion here on nipple shields? That might help if you still have thrush to reduce the pain.

Personally I'd try to avoid them. IF they are used, they will need to be cleaned VERY well between uses to fight the thrush.

-Angela


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## BusyMommy (Nov 20, 2001)

YES









Ds1 was tough. We used a supplemental system & it worked! Dh rigged up a tube so the end came out right at the nipple and we gradually transitioned him from "baby birding" there to actually nursing the real nipple.

GOOD luck!

eta: ah I see you have lots of advice re: the tubing.







We also cut out the bottles entirely then.
And, I gotta say the burnign really does sound like thrush. It did hurt at times but it was a "real" pain not a burning one, if that makes sense.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Are you taking a good quality probiotic for the thrush? If not, get to your local health food store and pick ope up. Up the amount it says on the bottle as you need to get extra good bacteria into you. Also, you can get an infant, powdered probiotic to put directly on your nipples. It tastes sweet so babies usually love it. Just don't put it on too thick as you don't want it to gum up in babies mouth. Now, I don't think the powder on your nipples would interfere with getting babe back to breast (maybe the extra sweetness would help?), but I haven't dealt with nipple confusion so maybe someone else has some knowledge here?

But anyway, load up on probiotics, as you need to get the yeast out of your system!

ETA: since you are using some formula right now, you could mix the infant probiotic into the formula!!


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## Carlyle (Mar 31, 2007)

I have no advice, just wanted to say how much I admire you for persevering. It sounds like you are dealing with so many problems at once with the latch issues, SNS AND thrush. Yikes. ANyway, I do hope it gets better for you soon--you sound like you are doing a FABULOUS job for your little one.


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## Luv2bemommy (Oct 26, 2005)

THanks ladies! My thrush feels a little better today, I started back on difulcan and Ive been using APNC like crazy.. I might attempt the gentian violet in a day or so if it doesn't continue to go away. I just really want to avoid the purple mess.. I found my bigger SNS today while hunting in my closet!! YAY! So it's a lot better then the tiny one I have been using.. He took it this after noon and latched on for almost 30 mins!!!! I had no problems getting him on the breast this time! Pray this continues for us!


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Luv2bemommy* 
THanks ladies! My thrush feels a little better today, I started back on difulcan and Ive been using APNC like crazy.. I might attempt the gentian violet in a day or so if it doesn't continue to go away. I just really want to avoid the purple mess.. I found my bigger SNS today while hunting in my closet!! YAY! So it's a lot better then the tiny one I have been using.. He took it this after noon and latched on for almost 30 mins!!!! I had no problems getting him on the breast this time! Pray this continues for us!

What is APNC? Is it a probiotic? Honestly, probiotics work wonders for thrush. They are good bacteria that your body needs to counteract yeast (thrush) and bad bacteria in your body. They won't hurt you, they're NOT an antibiotic or a medication, they're perfectly safe for nursing babies and even safe for babies to take directly. You need to build up the good bacteria in your body to get rid of the ALL of the yeast in your body as it can cause a whole host of issues if it's left.

Awesome that baby latched for 30 mins! That's a really good sign!

ETA: probiotics work much better than the purple stuff!


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## Luv2bemommy (Oct 26, 2005)

What exactly is a probiotic? Where would I get some at? APNC is all purpose nipple cream.. I think there is some info on kellymom about it and what all is in it. I know you can use it to treat thrush too.


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## Tofu the Geek (Dec 2, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Luv2bemommy* 
What exactly is a probiotic?

Take a look here for a not too bad descrition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probiotic

You can pick some up at the health food store. The content is measure in CFU and you want one with BILLIONS of CFU per capsule, not MILLIONS. Mine has 5 billion CFU per capsule. Instructions say to take one per day but if I suspect a yeast infection (thrush) in my breasts, I take 3 or 4 capsules per day until it's gone (i.e. no burning sensation). If your stools are getting loose, you're likely taking too much, so cut back a little.

See my post above (post # 15 in this thread ) for a couple more hints.

I personally have never found it necessary to take medication for yeast issues as probiotics (or acidopholous) has always worked, if a good quality one is bought that contains enough good bacteria.


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## RootSnort (Nov 22, 2006)

My favorite probiotic is Primadophilus by Natures Way. We use it at my hospital in the NICU for small preemies to prevent NEC, which used to be the big killer of preemie babies. We DON'T loose babies that way anymore!

We give 1 scoop twice a day for the preemies.

This WILL continue to get better, and you DO have time. Just keep the baby on the breast as much as y'all can stand!


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## Luv2bemommy (Oct 26, 2005)

24 hours bottle free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thought I would share! LOL I"m pretty proud of myself now I'm aiming for 48 hours! I will post this from my journal and see what you ladies think?

He has this smacking/clicking sound when he nurses sometimes, it's almost like slurping? I don't know how to explain it. I have already read a clicking sound means improper latch but I do think he is latched on right? His bottom lip is flared out and from what I can see his tongue is down too.. I don't know what it could be from? It's quite annoying! I also worry about using the SNS for long, how will I know what he is getting from me? Should I only do one oz formula in the sns and stop? I have been putting all 4oz in there ( what he would take from a bottle) and most of the day yesterday he drinks that whole 4oz, this morning he was full at only 2 1/2 oz? Does that mean anything? Maybe he is getting more mommy milk and less formula? How would I know? I don't feel fuller or bigger, so I don't know if my supply is increasing or not..

Thoughts?


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## alegna (Jan 14, 2003)

Yea! Great news!

I would start backing off the supplement now. I'd reduce it by one oz at first and see how he does with that. Then keep going.

I think that kellymom has some guidelines on weaning off supplements.

-Angela


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