# ecoterrorism and ELF



## daylily (Dec 1, 2001)

Is anyone familiar with the activities of the Earth Liberation Front (ELF)? They recently did some major vandalism at a construction site in my area. I consider myself to be an environmentalist, but acts of violence or vandalism in the name of environmentalism trouble me for several reasons. First, because they give all environmentalists a bad name and we all come off looking like wackos. Second, because vandalism is an ineffective way to stop a behavior that is destructive to the environment. Third, because activities like ELF's give the feds reason to use the PATRIOT act to go after anyone who is an environmental activist, even if he/she is peaceful and law-abiding.

What do you think? Is there any justification for torching trucks or restaurants or keying SUVs in the name of environmentalism?


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## MaShroom (Jan 25, 2003)

i did a search on elf not too long ago and was thinking of starting a thread about it. ita with what you're saying.

but...

while i don't condone violence or destruction i'm really torn in regard to this. i do understand what they are doing and why. it is maddening to watch these developers and various other parasites just destroy, destroy, destroy. i can see how it might make someone flip out and blow up a hummer. it is the fight fire with fire tactic. probably wrong, definately illegal. but what will it take to get peoples attention to make them wake up and realize what we're doing to the earth??? it makes my inner environmental anarchist seethe.









great, now the fbi is going to be watching me.







:


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

sorry, guys....


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## MaShroom (Jan 25, 2003)

so much for a free f-ing country, eh?


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

Yep. And I even live on the other side of the planet now. Still not touching it..... makes my heart pound just sitting here thinking about it.....the way it used to do every time a cop car drove past


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## MaShroom (Jan 25, 2003)

well, i suppose i figure that if "they" ever do decide to stake out my house or something they'll be bored to tears. my phone conversations consist of bitching about my husband to my sister and the most radical thing i do is complain about politics with my dad.:LOL they would probably be like "dumb boring hippie."









but i do absolutely see your point. stuff like that makes me very hesitant to be involved in anything that could be considered radical. but my kids are still too young for me to be very involved anyway. the best i can do at this point is send angry emails to my state reps (which i should do more often.)







:


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

sorry guys....


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## MamaFern (Dec 13, 2003)

i wouldnt personally do acts of vandalism and such things that groups like ELF do..but i also dont condone them..perhaps they are more brave then me...willing to risk their lives to protect the earth. i think that there may be better ways to go about it and i agree that these acts put a bad face on environmentalists and activists, but someones gotta do something. the media can twist anything to look like a terrorist act and i know because i have been part of demo's that werer 100% peaceful and legal and still we were portrayed as angry anarchists.. i guess i believe that anyone doing something to help liberate the earth from destruction is a friend of mine..and "you" can come drag me away if you want to....


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## daylily (Dec 1, 2001)

Quote:

while i don't condone violence or destruction i'm really torn in regard to this. i do understand what they are doing and why. it is maddening to watch these developers and various other parasites just destroy, destroy, destroy. i can see how it might make someone flip out and blow up a hummer.
ITA.

I would never be so immature as to key someone's car, but when my sister, who drives a huge honkin SUV, complained to me about how often it gets keyed,("You wouldn't believe how many people want to key our car.") I couldn't help thinking that this was an example of karma.


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## FlaxSeedGruel (Mar 12, 2004)

http://earthliberationfront.com/

here is the website.


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## Defenestrator (Oct 10, 2002)

ELF burned down a house a few doors down from my parents.

They live in a development that has 10 homesites in the country on a piece of property that has a mixture of woods and wetlands. I don't agree with their choice, but I understand it. When I was growing up we had horrid housing and periods of deep poverty. Now that they are older and have been working for a while, they were able to build their dream house, which is about 2000 square feet on an acre lot. Most of the houses surrounding them are much bigger, and are the kinds of buildings that are easy targets for those who want to show examples of consumerism and waste.

The house that was burned down was unoccupied, but nearly finished. The effect of the arson was that my parents and their neighbors were scared out of their wits -- my mom had nightmares for weeks, but nobody moved, or stopped constructing their houses, or stopped clearing trees for big lawns, or stopped using chemicals on their lawns, or stopped driving their suvs. My father joked that the ELF must be anti-insurance company activists, because the insurance company that held the policy on the house was the only entity that suffered a financial loss because of the arson.

I believe in direct action. I do believe that such action, especially if it incorporates elements of destruction or violence, must achieve its aims in order to be justifiable. I don't think that the vandalism that ELF takes part in achieves the goals that motivate it -- to discourage development, waste, and destruction of the planet. It certainly didn't do so in my parents' neighborhood.


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## grisandole (Jan 11, 2002)

I wouldn't do it, because I don't want to go to jail, but I admire them. Keying an suv is dumb, though, as I don't think it gets any messages across. But, burning down McMansions at least shows some anger and passion and gets people talking. May not be effective, but I get it. I try very hard to not judge people, but, when you destroy wetlands and open space to put a house on it, dammit, I judge! I'm working on that........

Kristi


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## daylily (Dec 1, 2001)

The ELF attack in my area sparked several letters to the editor--people who didn't like the term "ecoterrorism." They pointed out that since ELF's activities don't result in a loss of human life, then it's not correct to call them terrorists. There was one letter, however, that agreed with the terrorist label, saying that it's possible for someone to be killed the next time ELF burns something down.


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## steph (Dec 5, 2001)

I thought "The Monkey Wrench Gang" was a pretty interesting book - and I can see why some do engage in property destruction out of rage and frustration. But I also think it does unfortunately also sends the message that most environmentalists are wackos







: Those that don't want to think very hard tend to think that anyway!

Also, I think that property destruction against an individual is not necessarily the best choice of an action. Doing something more corporate oriented would make more sense - not that I condone it, but I do understand it. Personally, I'd never blow something up - but I would love to do something like send AOL all of their f**king heavily packaged "free" cd's with bricks attached and make them pay for the return postage (just my most recent piss-off, got another one in the mail Sat. for the up-teenth time!!!


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

***


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## steph (Dec 5, 2001)

aussiemum, unfortunately, they are only addressed to "resident", not me specifically, so the post office won't return it...









My understanding is that it has to be addressed directly to an individual, not a blanket "resident" mailing to be returned at the expense of the sender... otherwise, I would. However, I could send one to them at my expense covered in dog shit - a bit juvenile I know, but it does make a point...


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

*


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## FlaxSeedGruel (Mar 12, 2004)

they just caught a kid in victoria today for a ELF action. http://vancouver.cbc.ca/regional/ser...arrest20040315


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

**


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## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

I remember tre arrow!! He used to do some pretty awesome protesting here in portland, oregon.

Quote:

Scarpitti became well known in Portland in July 2000 when he climbed the U.S. Forest Service regional headquarters building at the Robert Duncan Plaza in downtown Portland. He lived on a 9-inch ledge for 11 days to protest the Eagle Creek timber sale in the Mount Hood National Forest. As punishment for his ledge occupation, Scarpitti was ordered to perform community service with the Forest Project, a Multnomah County program that brings offenders out to the woods and puts them to work repairing trails and clearing campsites.
_ _After the sale was canceled, Scarpitti ran for the 3rd Congressional District as a Pacific Green Party candidate in November of that year. He lost to incumbent Democratic U.S. Rep. Earl Blumenauer.
here is the story

The forest service building is right in downtown - highly visible place for a protest - It got more attention than any other protest in saving the Eagle Creek Forest.


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm not going to mention any identifying details, but I know someone who is an "environmentalist" on the opposite end of the spectrum...he works for industry.

He once said to me: "These people [Earth First!, etc.] are really our best friends. I can sit with the CEO of International Paper and say, 'Here are some things you need to do....and you can deal with us, or you can deal with them.' If they weren't around, I wouldn't get nearly as much done."

Fwiw.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

**


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

**


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## brookely ash (Apr 9, 2003)

"Now, who the #@$% are these guys? Some sort of vigilante group?"

BwaaaaHaaaaaaHaaaa!!!








:

I have never heard of the"Stop Eco Violence" group. Its kind of an oxy-moron, ihsn't it?

Personally, I have too much at stake to be involved with a group like ELF, but I think that this country needs radical change, and it will probabably take somthing radical to change it. I am glad there are some people out there with the balls to cause a stir. If it ever ends up that someone were to get hurt, I would change my view about it. But for now.....

Free Tre Arrow!!!!


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## Bippity (Sep 12, 2003)

OK, I'll sheepishly admit it...








:
I'm looking forward to having a Target.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

*


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## MelMel (Nov 9, 2002)

OT:bippity cant you order from target online if you must???

this story is very intriguing

(now I am on some 'list') I shouldnt even hit send on this post.....

uh....oh.....here i go........ready, set.......SUBMIT!

:LOL


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## daylily (Dec 1, 2001)

I think Bippity is referring to the fact that a Target is coming to our city and that site may have been the one vandalized by ELF--I can't remember exactly which building site they targeted. There are so many. It's not just a Target--it's a huge development, if I remember correctly.


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## Bippity (Sep 12, 2003)

Ahhh.... list schmist. FBI's had my prints for at least 20 years now-no biggie-I just can't do nuttin' wrong & get away with it! :LOL

Yup - it's a gigantic ruddy mess up there right now. With construction and earth moving equipment and those little hot pink flags stuck in the grass everywhere.

(I have ordered from Target on-line, but they charge a lot for shipping, so it's not really that worth it.)


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

Quote:

_Originally posted by Bippity_
*...(I have ordered from Target on-line, but they charge a lot for shipping, so it's not really that worth it.)*
You might want to consider ALL the costs...like increased pollution in your area due to the increase of internal combusion engine traffic coming in. Increased noise. Increased light pollution from the floodlamps in the parking lot -- fewer stars visible when you lie on your back in the yard.

The box stores don't tend to locate a store in a town with no commercial traffic beforehand, so it is likely that they will be distinctly changing the local tax basis by putting local stores out of business.










All that for "cheap" stuff made in a place with no labor laws nor environmental protection.

Sorry for the whine.


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## Bippity (Sep 12, 2003)

Uncle! Uncle!! Iz OK... You're right! You didn't say one single thing I disagree with.


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## Lemon Balm (Jan 23, 2002)

Quote:

_Originally posted by daylily_
*What do you think? Is there any justification for torching trucks or restaurants or keying SUVs in the name of environmentalism?*
I think that underdogs feel like they have to take desperate measures to be heard. This may seem like I'm getting way off track but... When we fought the Revolutionary War, we couldn't have won against the British if we hadn't used tactics that were considered to be just as wrong as what you're speaking of. DO NOT THINK I CONDONE THIS but terrorists use their tactics against superpowers like the U.S. because they feel it's their best option for getting a message across that they strongly believe in.

So, I feel no differently about "eco-terrorism". They are feeling that it's what they can do to get people to pay attention. I respect their devotion and hope that they make sure that no one could be injured in the process. I wouldn't do what they are doing but, I don't know that there are better ways to get their message across in our society.


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

*


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## aussiemum (Dec 20, 2001)

sorry........


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## majazama (Aug 2, 2003)

The U.S. has a very big plan, I think, and it involves silencing those who protest and speak out about things that really do matter so we can all get back to our mind-numbing shopping.


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## MaShroom (Jan 25, 2003)

yes, be a good little drone...


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## Dov (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by steph_
*aussiemum, unfortunately, they are only addressed to "resident", not me specifically, so the post office won't return it...









My understanding is that it has to be addressed directly to an individual, not a blanket "resident" mailing to be returned at the expense of the sender... otherwise, I would. However, I could send one to them at my expense covered in dog shit - a bit juvenile I know, but it does make a point...*










I sent AOL a bill for my time, tallied over a 6 month period, billed at $65/hr, plus all the associated costs involved in recycling their unsolicited CDROM's certified mail. Their legal counsel called me up and I told them I'd be willing to settle out of court if they agreed to quit sending me stuff. He laughed at me but the CDROM's don't come anymore.

I've tried this tactic with many corporate globalists and it works more often than not. People who only understand things in terms of dollars have to be dealt with on their terms. Bill 'em (the CEO getting a bill works best) and take 'em to small claims court if you have to. Sounds absurd but sometimes its the only thing a corporate globalist "gets."


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## Dov (Nov 21, 2001)

Quote:

_Originally posted by aussiemum_
*...I find it kinda scary; bombs on trains in Europe & the US seems to be focused on arresting university kids who torch a few cars at a car dealership & then threatening them with life in prison. I think the US gov't's priorities are a little mixed up. FWIW.*
Before Seattle '99 it was so very much more important for the FBI, et al. to go after environmentalists and ELF than to continue their infiltration of right wing militia movements. According to Snitch Culture by Jim Redden, the Feds cut funding for investigating folks like Timothy McVeigh, et al. and militias and put it and millions more into going after ELF, et al. It just proves that the power-culture worships their property more than it cares about security for the peasantry under them. The current "administration" has put more money and priority on Iraq than it ever has on the real criminals, bin Ladin and company. It's no different.

In a way, calling ELF "ecoterrorists" is like calling Al Qaeda "entrepreneurs." It's revelatory of the priorities of the great father and his band of brothers. Welcome to the 21st century... the new era of corporate feudalism... yeehaw.


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