# I'm going prematurely GRAY. AP Moms, Please help :(



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

My DD is 7mo....She has coslept with us from the beginning, but always has been able to do her own crib till now.

My husband has shared some concern that he would like the occasional night with me alone in bed, and so I have been working on her sleeping in her crib better. She goes to bed at 7:30, after a nice bath, but wakes usually every 2-3 hours, if not sooner. Sometimes even 30 minute intervals. I usually give up and bring her in the bed with me because I am exhausted.

Last night was the worst to date! I told myself I was going to stick it out, and keep putting her in her bed after she woke. So everytime she cried, I would rock her back to sleep, and attempt to put her back in her bed. And EVERY TIME, she sense she was being put into her bed and would scream. This happened every 15 minutes, till 3:00am. I changed her, nursed, etc. The ONLY time she was happy is when she was in my arms, nursing.

She is teething right now, has 2 bottom teeth coming in so I attribute some of her neediness to this. But I'm not sure about the rest, is this just a phase?

An IDEAL night for me for her, would be, Bed at 7:30, wake every 3 hours to nurse but be able to be put BACK in crib each time, then at around 4:30 bring her into my bed for the remainder of the morning (when hubby leaves for work) And then occasionally, I don't mind bringing her in bed a full night. I just don't like how she screams and cries if she's put into her crib. When she is in her crib, she has to be swaddled or she wakes up at the slightest sound or flails her arms. HOWEVER, when she's in bed with me, she sleeps so peacefully. I just wish her crib wasnt such a fight, because I can't go to bed with her at 7:30pm!

Does anyone have any ideas?? I'm so frusterated at times I want to just walk away and let her cry, but I am REALLY against that. I don't want to do CIO, even tho at times I am so at my wits end 

Help!


----------



## MeepyCat (Oct 11, 2006)

If she's teething, would tylenol or motrin help?

My DD nearly drove me nuts by the same process, and honestly, I think that I was making her wake up more, and more often, by responding to everything right away. Some kids are like this and some are not - my DS went straight into earth-shattering screams if we didn't come immediately when he started crying. So this is my compromise/ non-CIO suggestion: Pee first. When the baby wakes up and you are going to go to her, first, go to the bathroom. If the babe is still awake when you're done, take care of the babe. If not, go back to bed.

I don't know if this will help, but it's a cheap experiment, and it's worth a try. The other thing you might look into is letting her dad take a shift, if it can be arranged.


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

I've done that.. Last night, I peed, almost decided to take a shower (with hubby right there 2 feet away, able to respond to her if she really flipped out) but before I even made it in shower she was SCREEEEAMING. It takes usually .5 seconds for a build up, and then she's lost it, and is choking from crying. Stops immediately if you pick her up.

Her daddy works a VERY hard job and has to supervise 50+ other men, and leaves at 4:15 am so his night time duties are out of the question. He's usually in bed before she is!


----------



## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

I think if that is something you want to do, you should do it "seriously" when shes not teething, sick, or going through any big developmental leaps.

Is the crib in you're room?

also be prepared b/c if you really want this every single set back you have to be consistent or it will undo everything you did.

I personally think it's early to do this considering at 8 m/o she will go through a big sleep regression and the only bed she knows is you're family bed. yes she sleeps in the crib at times but sh feels she belongs in bed with you because that's what you taught her.

If you wait until shes older you can talk to her about it and make it seem like a good thing, right now she's probably scared and doesn't understand why she's being kicked out KWIM?


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sosurreal09*
> 
> I think if that is something you want to do, you should do it "seriously" when shes not teething, sick, or going through any big developmental leaps.
> 
> ...


Yes... Its been my choice to have her in bed with me, I like her close and we are both happiest all day/night touching eachother. BUT.. sometimes itd be nice to have my bed  My husband cant ever cuddle me, and we barely ever see eachother so nighttime is our only "interaction".

So I don't know what to do. Is it too much to ask that she sleep in her bed most of the night, but then come into bed with me at 4am, and sleep till 8?

Our bed is also a queen. Hubby has been pushed off, literally, a few times. So now she sleeps in the middle so that when she wiggles in her sleep, we are moving in a direction away from hubby.

What is "sleep regression"?

And yes crib is in my room, literally inches from my face. I can reach and touch her at night. I have considered turning her bed into a side car, so that she can have her own space, but still be "connected" to us.. but we can have our own time, without our movements waking her. BUT im not sure that would work, as she is a master wiggler, and has been known to wiggle across the entire bed in her sleep to find me.


----------



## lookatreestar (Apr 14, 2008)

she sleeps peacefully in bed with you and you want to give that up!?!







all joking aside... you are going to have to do some kind of night time parenting for awhile, so if you want to be running to the crib every however often she wakes to soothe her back to sleep then i'd say just keep at it, eventually she will learn. why don't you and dh connect on the couch or get another bed? this is the second post like this i have responded to, it must be something about this age and they recognize how much sleeping in "baby jail" stinks







honestly if my kids did not sleep great while co sleeping i would consider a crib/their own bed (and i do think kids like this exist) but mine love to be close and snuggle to sleep but then once they are asleep they roll away. they also sleep through the night no matter how loud my dh snores, or how much i move around. they only sleep cruddy if sick, teething, growth spurting (nursing all.night.long to up the milk supply) etc.


----------



## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

I have a 7.5 month old and this is what we do. It may not be for you guys but it works great for us so I thought I would respond. J has always slept with us. We don't actually own a baby bed of any kind. We have rails on both sides of the bed and have just recently put our matress on the floor as she is pretty mobile now.

Ok, so I feed her to sleep in our bed at about 7:30ish then get up. DH or I usually have to go in about every hour or so to resettle her. Sometimes this is a 30 minute feed other times it is just a 2 mninutes pat. She is much more settled when one of us is with her so I'm guessing that if either of us stayed in bed when she went down she would sleep for longer. Once we are in bed she feeds every 1-3hrs or so but doesn't actually wake, just stirs and I feed her.

I do all the night time parenting as well because DH needs to be alert for work and also because all she really wants/needs is feeding so it makes sense for me to do it.

What is your DHs concern about having her in your bed? Is it the lack of cuddles or does he not sleep as well? I can't help with the not sleeping as well but as far as the cuddles go we still get plenty. Because we have the rails J doesn't have to be between us so I often sleep snuggled up to DH with J on my other side. And some of our nicest moments have been when DH and I have spooned while I fed J. If we want to have sex then we just go to another room.

Anyway, that's what works for us. I hope you can works something out soon that everyone is happy with.


----------



## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sosurreal09*
> I personally think it's early to do this considering at 8 m/o she will go through a big sleep regression and the only bed she knows is you're family bed. yes she sleeps in the crib at times but sh feels she belongs in bed with you *because that's what you taught her.*
> 
> If you wait until shes older you can talk to her about it and make it seem like a good thing, right now she's probably scared and doesn't understand why she's being kicked out KWIM?


i disagree with the bolded. that makes it seem like the op is responsible for her baby wanting to sleep with her and the truth is, some babies like to co-sleep and some babies don't. if the op is having difficulties because she wants to transition her baby to a crib for the full night it's not the op's fault.

i don't know much about transitions that young, the one that has transitioned did it at about 2-1/2 but i can imagine that consistency would be best. there are some books that discuss how to do this, no cry sleep solution (didn't work for us but it's worth a try) and another one i can't remember.

does she nap in her crib?


----------



## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlayaMama*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I disagree. I think before a baby is born you need to make a decision, co-sleep or not. A baby is *taught* everything, from nursing to talking, walking, ect. If she was born and was always put in the crib to sleep every single time, every single day, then she would have been taught I sleep in the crib. If she is welcomed into your bed and sleeps with you from day 1 she will have been taught i sleep with mom and dad in our bed.

I personally am 100% for co-sleeping, but it is just not for some people, which is fine, but if you started out co-sleeping it will be hard to just all of a sudden change everything. It can be done I am sure, but it will be difficult.

my BFF co-slept until her baby was 9 m/o it took her nearly 2 month to get the baby to sleep in a crib and took hours every day...then her baby went through a sleep regression (which is when they start waking frequently b/c of development) and she started letting her in bed in the middle of the night. Now her baby 18 m/o...will sleep in the crib until 11pm but everyday at 11pm will wake up to go sleep with mommy, and she does. She says she regrets ever going through that whole "sleep training" thing with her DD and feels like she caused a lot of crying for nothing.

What i am saying is if this is what you really want to do you have to be consistent b/c once you let her back in it will fail and you will be at square one.

DH and I make time for each other. He was unsure about co-sleeping at first. Once my "drive" came back we got to try new things all over the house lol needless to say he loves co-sleeping! Besides that now that DD is 15 m/o a lot of times she will cuddle with daddy which makes him feel great! Shes a huge momma's girl but every so often she will be like on top of him all night...he loves it.


----------



## PlayaMama (Apr 1, 2007)

i know this is getting off topic, but do you really think that babies are taught how to nurse?







both of mine nursed within minutes of being born instinctually and there is a youtube video that you can watch of babies doing the belly crawl to get to the breast and nurse. without any aid or instruction from parents.

i believe that children are all unique creatures and some children like to sleep close to parents and others don't. you would only have to search the forums here to see plenty of examples of parents that intended to co-sleep only to discover that their babies slept better on their own.

i do believe that there are patterns of behaviour that teach babies (and children) what to expect from their environment, but the idea that a parent is completely responsible for the preferences of their children is new to me. regardless, in this situation, the babies desire is to sleep with the parent right now and i think that a more useful way of approaching the topic is how to help the baby adjust to the new situation desired by her parents.

i agree with you that consistency is the key.

to the op- what about having a sidecar crib?


----------



## Unlikely Mama (Oct 30, 2010)

I agree with PlayaMama that babies are individuals and choose, to some degree, where they sleep best. My DD, now 9 mo, is a classic example. Before she was born, I had all sorts of ideas about where she would sleep, which involved my own bed and a co-sleeper side-carred to my bed. I didn't own a crib. She had other ideas. She was extremely restless sleeping in my bed and then would arch and scream. I finally got a crib, put it next to my bed and just put her down when she was arching, screaming and clearly not wanting to be held when she was done nursing at bedtime (she was about 5 mo old). Yeah, she screamed for several minutes more and then went to sleep. Now, when she's done nursing at bedtime, she still arches-thankfully, without the screaming-I put her down and she goes to sleep in her crib.

All of that is just a side note to what I would offer as advice to the OP. You mention that bedtime is 7:30pm. Is that her bedtime regardless of when she wakes from her last nap? If her wake time between her last nap and bedtime is really long, she will get overtired and have a much harder time going to sleep. It doesn't really matter that she has been going to bed at 7:30pm until now and that it has worked. I have found that the older my baby has gotten, the earlier her bedtime needs to be. At 9mo, she never goes to sleep after 6pm (unless there is a special reason) because her natural wake up time is between 5:30-6:00am. 7.5 months is also when many babies are transitioning from 3-2 naps and nap transition times totally screw up sleep. I would suggest an earlier bedtime for several days in a row. Sounds counterintuitive and I know it's not convenient, but in my experience, it has made a world of difference in how my baby sleeps. GL!


----------



## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

well maybe not taught to nurse but to latch on right, yeah. I know I had to teach mine how to latch without hurting me...

ummm I do want to say yes all babies are different and some do better in the bed some in the crib and some it doesn't even matter. My DD is a "bad" sleeper period. She was in a crib consistently until she was about 6 m/o side carted. I gave up b/c I was so tired of not sleeping while nursing her ect b/c I wanted her back in the crib KWIM?

I do think though that I have now taught her she sleeps with us and if I decided to change that she would flipping lose it.


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

I will try to answer everyones questions in one big post! lol

My concern/DHs concern with having her in bed with us, all the time, is -- we have NO sex. We currently are helping out his mom and sister, so they live with us. So we have no spare rooms. No privacy AT ALL. So the only time we can do anything, is in our bed. We cannot go on DATE nights, because thru countless battles, my DD refuses to take a bottle of breastmilk, so she goes on dates with us. It is really..really getting to my husband, that the only time he has to cuddle me, is when there is a baby on the otherside attached at the breast. Hes a loving dad and loves to cuddle her, but we both want alone time again. And she hasnt ALWAYS slept exclusively in our bed. Her first 3 months were 90% in her bassinet. After that, till like 5 months she was probably 70% in her bed. Now, its more, because I am giving up on trying and I am exhausted! I pull her in bed with me because its easiest.

I want her near me, so I have her crib pulled up against the bed. Its not as simple as me and DH having alone time while she sleeps at one end of the bed - if we whisper to eachother, she wakes up. The only way to prevent the constant wake ups, is I have to be nursing her.

To answer about her naps, no she does not nap in her crib. She won't. Its a battle too. So I nurse her down in our bed, and she sleeps maybe 20-30 minutes. Her bedtime is 7:30, and her last nap attempt is usually around 4pm, so shes ready and willing for the first time being put down. Its the ones after that, that are daunting. She will wake every 30 minutes sometimes. Her eyes are glazed, droopy, head bobbing to side, fighting sleep.. but she just won't fall asleep.


----------



## Unlikely Mama (Oct 30, 2010)

Sounds like you're having a really hard time and I know the feeling! Naps and bedtime were a battle for months with my DD. The only reason I ask about naps and bedtime is because when I got DD on age-appropriate schedule and shifted her bedtime earlier to compensate for crappy naps, it changed our whole sleep life. When I say "schedule", I use that term very loosely. What I really mean is that when DD wakes in the morning, I pay close attention to the amount of time she has been awake. At 7.5 months I think it was probably no more than 2.5 hours after she got up that I tried to have her asleep. What I have found is that the older DD gets, the more unreliable her tired signs are. If I missed the window of opportunity, she would either refuse to nap or sleep for 20-30 minutes like you describe. I would do the same thing for her next nap. If both naps were crap (since we were on 2 naps at that point-still are at 9 months), I would go straight to a super early bedtime-4:45 is the earliest I would go, usually 5-5:15. I know it sounds nuts, but night sleep is more restorative than day sleep, so I didn't see the point in trying to get a third crappy nap out of her rather than just going down for the night. She started sleeping better and longer. And she really didn't get up any earlier. It may take 4-5 days before it takes. It's great for me because then I get time alone with DH. We don't co-sleep, but I think that age-appropriate wake times are good for any baby, co-sleeper or not. Getting DD into her crib was also not the easiest and there was crying (not CIO, but rather PU/PD with my staying in the room by the crib) but it didn't take very long, probably because I was very consistent.

In short, my advice would be to ditch the late nap and go straight to an early bedtime. GL! I hope things get better for you!


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unlikely Mama*
> 
> Sounds like you're having a really hard time and I know the feeling! Naps and bedtime were a battle for months with my DD. The only reason I ask about naps and bedtime is because when I got DD on age-appropriate schedule and shifted her bedtime earlier to compensate for crappy naps, it changed our whole sleep life. When I say "schedule", I use that term very loosely. What I really mean is that when DD wakes in the morning, I pay close attention to the amount of time she has been awake. At 7.5 months I think it was probably no more than 2.5 hours after she got up that I tried to have her asleep. What I have found is that the older DD gets, the more unreliable her tired signs are. If I missed the window of opportunity, she would either refuse to nap or sleep for 20-30 minutes like you describe. I would do the same thing for her next nap. If both naps were crap (since we were on 2 naps at that point-still are at 9 months), I would go straight to a super early bedtime-4:45 is the earliest I would go, usually 5-5:15. I know it sounds nuts, but night sleep is more restorative than day sleep, so I didn't see the point in trying to get a third crappy nap out of her rather than just going down for the night. She started sleeping better and longer. And she really didn't get up any earlier. It may take 4-5 days before it takes. It's great for me because then I get time alone with DH. We don't co-sleep, but I think that age-appropriate wake times are good for any baby, co-sleeper or not. Getting DD into her crib was also not the easiest and there was crying (not CIO, but rather PU/PD with my staying in the room by the crib) but it didn't take very long, probably because I was very consistent.
> 
> In short, my advice would be to ditch the late nap and go straight to an early bedtime. GL! I hope things get better for you!


I just wanna cry. We just have been working on a nap since about 1pm. It is now 4pm. She went down in our bed, woke up 15 min later. I rocked her, shushed her, nursed her, wiiiiide eyed and awake. I blacked out our curtains, and tried again. Nursed her, she fell asleep. I was able to put her into her crib, *swaddled* (she will wake up within seconds if I dont swaddle her!), and she slept maybe 30 minutes. Went back in there, did the pick up/put down thing.. I'd nurse her on the verge of sleep, and then when her sucking was almost stopped, I'd slowly put her into the crib. Full blown crying ensued as soon as her butt touched the mattress. I let her cry some with my arms wrapped around her, didn't work. Then I held her and rocked her while she cried, and she cried so hard she started choking. Eventually she fell asleep. I put her back down in her crib and she slept 10 minutes.

Now she is up playing. And I am so so so so frusterated.

What do I do?? I will try the early bedtime tonight. But all I see happening is instead of me having to rock/nurse/put her down every 30 minutes from 7:30pm till 2am.. it will be from 5:30pm to 2am. *SIGH*


----------



## mamma2j (Oct 5, 2010)

Oh my! I'm sorry to say I don't have any great advice, but I can 100% COMPLETELY empathize with you. We are in the EXACT SAME BOAT! DD is 8 1/2 mos and we did not co-sleep in the beginning. She was in a co-sleeper, but not in our bed. We started putting her in her crib around 5 mos, but at that point she was still not sleeping through the night. She'd wake up so much that as time has gone on, I've brought her into bed earlier and earlier bcs she just wakes too often otherwise and I'm exhausted too!!!! Now she basically starts in her crib and at the first wake-up (1/2 hr after we put her down) I go to bed w/ her! Still too early, but gives me that 1/2 hour to at least eat dinner. And she's okay with the lights on dim, so I sit in bed and read.

She is also an awful napper, but getting better (if that's any encouragement!) She cried herself to sleep for 95% of her naps for the first 7 months of her life. No matter WHAT I did to get her to sleep, she would cry. It was absolutely miserable. And she only takes 1/2 hour naps. I finally gave up on trying to make the half hour longer. I used to do what you just said - pick her up, rock her, put her back down, etc. - but after months of screaming and no improvement I just gave up and let the naps be short!! Now at least she doesn't really cry herself to sleep anymore - phew!

The only suggestion I have is looking into a medical reason for all of the waking. In our case, I finally sucked it up and co=slept (though I never intended to), but she would still wake up crying once or twice a night in our bed! Ack! We have her on reflux medication now, and I've noticed a slight improvement.

Ugh....I'm so sorry, I've been there (and still am!) Nobody understands, it feels like you are the ONLY ONE whose baby has such a hard time sleeping, and everyone thinks you've done this to your child, but they have never had a baby like ours!!!! It is not your fault that your baby needs to be in your bed. And even if it were, it's only because the alternative is to get zero sleep, which is impossible. I really, really understand where you are coming from. I had to reread your post to see if I hadn't posted it myself!! I hope things get better. It's nice to know we're not alone.

P.S. (It's 8:45pm here. DD goes down around 6:30-7. DH and I have been taking turns rocking and putting her down since bedtime. Every single time we put her down, she wakes up crying the second she leaves the touch of our chest. He just came out now and she is in the crib. Guarantee that at 9:15 I'll be taking her to bed! By the way, this is a late night for us! Usually she goes down no problem the first time and ends up in bed w/ me around 7:30-8. I hope we're not starting a new "trend" of not going down even the first time!)

Sorry I rambled!!! I feel your pain and I guess I needed to vent myself!


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mamma2j*
> 
> Oh my! I'm sorry to say I don't have any great advice, but I can 100% COMPLETELY empathize with you. We are in the EXACT SAME BOAT! DD is 8 1/2 mos and we did not co-sleep in the beginning. She was in a co-sleeper, but not in our bed. We started putting her in her crib around 5 mos, but at that point she was still not sleeping through the night. She'd wake up so much that as time has gone on, I've brought her into bed earlier and earlier bcs she just wakes too often otherwise and I'm exhausted too!!!! Now she basically starts in her crib and at the first wake-up (1/2 hr after we put her down) I go to bed w/ her! Still too early, but gives me that 1/2 hour to at least eat dinner. And she's okay with the lights on dim, so I sit in bed and read.
> 
> ...


The reason I dont think its a medical issue (like earache, or extreme teething pain) is because she's totally perfect during the day, temperment wise, and if she sleeps with ME, she is an absolute angel.. sleeps ALL night if I am in bed with her.

It's the dropping her into the crib that wakes her up.... The laying there and then realizing where she's at.... etc etc. that makes it almost impossible.

I put her down early (like someone suggested) at 6:00 - we rocked to sleep, then when I thought she was totally out I went to put her down, and she wailed. I spent 50 minutes for nothing.. She finally fell asleep at 7:18 after more rocking/nursing, and I slowly put her into crib. It is 8:00 and I just went in to nurse her back to sleep after her first waking, and she did go back to sleep.

It's stressful, even my showers are not mine anymore because I am constantly expecting her to cry, me have to rush out of shower in a towel, freeze my rear end off and nurse her back to sleep.. lol!

From birth till 5mo she slept 3-4 hour stretches, I dont get what happened  BTW feel free to vent away! Atleast we can be sleep deprived together!


----------



## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

DD dint start napping well until about 10 m/o








that really stinks having all those people in the house!!!

DD has been going through some things with sleep here lately so DH and I have had 0 time...sooooooo he wanted some time and it had been about a week so I popped the tv on and threw the baby gate over the stairs and we had a quickie in the bathroom this morning while DD watched like 15 mi of TV in our room...it's not perfect but he got some steam out lol

the first yr is so hard which I am sure you know from already having a child...

it's all about survival mama.


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sosurreal09*
> 
> DD dint start napping well until about 10 m/o
> 
> ...


LOL See, the throw some cartoons on method doesnt work for me! hubs isnt home till 7-8pm, and by then everyone is also home!


----------



## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

Can you put her to sleep in your bed and then have sex on the floor... very quietly?

ETA - and/or can your mum and sister take her out for an hour on your DHs days off so you can have sex then? You needn't *tell* them that that's what you're going to do, just say you'd like a break.

TBH, from what you described, I would be letting the baby sleep with me and trying to solve the sex problem rather than trying to solve the sleeping in the cot problem which seems harder. Although, to be fair, DH and I both love co-sleeping so that may colour my perspective.


----------



## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

what time does he go to work? DH usually works 1pm-9 both love co-sleeping too:30pm, or 7am-5pm, or 10am-6pm lol so we have to switch it up quite a bit. DH and I both love co-sleeping too, so we had to work on the sex thing, but you have people all over you're house...when are they moving? lol

could you put on white noise and then quietly have it on the floor?


----------



## sharon71 (May 27, 2005)

if getting intimate with your DH is the problem why not put your DD is a swing or bouncy and grab a quickie,or ask your MIL/SIL to babysit for you?

or do it on the floor.


----------



## Unlikely Mama (Oct 30, 2010)

If your DD has super crappy naps like you said, try having her asleep by 5:00. I know it sounds crazy, but an hour (e.g.the difference btw. 5-6pm) is actually a long time to a baby. If your nap attempts don't work and she's awake at 4pm, do your bedtime routine and try the super EBT. Believe me, I know how frustrating it is. I spent months having bedtime take 1 1/2 to 2 hours, mostly of her screaming because she was overtired and in total meltdown mode. Naps are more difficult than bedtime in my experience. Even after I got her going down easily at bedtime, I spent 2 more months getting to where I didn't have to either lay down with her or carry her in the Ergo for every nap. I know it's easier said than done, but try not to be too discouraged that trying something new doesn't work immediately.


----------



## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

It is absolutely possible for a baby to start the night in a separate bed and join you later in the night. Absolutely. My children both did it. It worked great and gave us all a good combination of uninterrupted sleep and cuddle time.

A lot of people think that Family Bed is all or nothing, and they will give you guilt, because you're not fully doing the "AP Checklist" that they think has been ordained as the one AP Way. They'll say things like "kicking her out of the warmth" or "confusing her with your inconsistency," or even, if they're feeling particularly smug, "this is such a relatively short phase of her life, suck it up." They aren't helping, and they don't represent anything but their own black and white thinking.

THere's lots of evidence that depressed and stressed otu mothers are more permanently harmful to children's development than having to sleep separate for part (or heck, even all) of the night. AP is about responding to your child's needs -- all of those needs, of which sleep is only one, and a healthy mother is another one.

Human children evolved in a world where they slept in lots of different locations: On mom's back, while she walked to gather; in grandma's arms while mom's arms needed a rest; on dad's lap by the fire; curled with mom in a pile of grass; cuddled with an auntie or older sibling; in a hammock made from a baby sling, strung from the rafter of a hut. They might do several or all of those in a day. This idea that there has to be One Place to Sleep and One Person to Sleep with is very absolutist.

How you get there depends on you and your baby. For us, from birth they were in a basinnette pushed up against the bed at the start of the night. They could hear and see and smell us and I could sleep with my hand on their backs. Later they started the night in the crib (which wasn't in our bedroom -- not enough room). We were in a tiny apartment though, so it was fewer steps to the next room than it would be in some larger houses in the same room! Given the time they generally went down to sleep, I'd usually still be somewhat conscious if they woke by midnight, and at that waking I'd nurse them fast, back down to sleep and back to their own bed. The next waking might not be until 4 or 5am, and at that point I'd bring them back to bed.

People will say "Oh, you get more sleep if they're just in bed and you can roll over and latch on and go back to sleep." For me, this wasn't the case, because I could not drop fully asleep while they were latched on, so even when they were in bed with me I had to unlatch them and close up my nightshirt top to prevent random access. The few times I thought "Oh, I'll get that uninterrupted sleep while nursing that everyone talks about," I slept badly (if at all) and woke up sore and resentful.

My kids weren't confused by part-time cosleeping. They prospered. I never CIOed, they slept well. My DD actually made it clear as a toddler that she liked more space than she got when cosleeping, and preferred to sleep most of the night sprawled widely across her entire bed. Tucked in and spooned with me and DH (and sometimes her older brother) she tossed and turned and didnt' sleep well.


----------



## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

I nurse DD to sleep and leave every night and spend time with DH. I was under the impression that was not the issue at hand.


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *katelove*
> 
> Can you put her to sleep in your bed and then have sex on the floor... very quietly?
> 
> ...


Well, it is all sort of complicated because my husband is home at 7, goes to bed at 9, and is up at 4am.. So we have no "other" time together to try getting creative with sex, at all. Except on weekends. We have actually done it on the floor LOL But it kind of bummed hubby out, he is not against co-sleeping but when it came to us resorting to sex on the floor, he was a little put off by it. (although he didnt complain after.. haha!)
And we have someone watch her while we go to "talk in private"... it just would be nice to have a little more flexibility


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

OK, here is a pretty miserable update.........

We've been trying and trying to get her to sleep in her bed, but it upsets her every time when she either wakes up as we are lowing her, or a few moments later when she realizes I am gone. No amount of shushing, rubbing, cuddling, will get her to stop crying as long as she is laying in the crib.

Hubby got exhausted from the crying (he has to be up and gone at 4:15am) so he's been sleeping on the couch to catch up on sleep. In that time, I was tired of fighting her, so she slept in bed with me. And till I go to bed around 1-am-2am, she will wake up every 1.5 hour which is OK -- not ideal -- but OK, I just nurse her back down and it takes all of 2 minutes. And then when I come to bed, she is out. All night long. She feels for me alot, and when I am right there she is happy.

We did the pick up/put downmethod overandoverandoverandover, and it just works her up so bad, she starts anticipating the put down, and freaks - big tears, even when I am holding her.

She is most peaceful when she is nursed down....and when she wakes up, and knows she is in our bed, she is not freaked like she is in her crib - she quietly whimpers for me, I feed her, she passes out.

SO I dont know what else to do. The only option I know of now, is using the crib as a sidecar, and gradually over time scooting her more and more into her own crib. Do you ladies think that is a good way to transition? She'd have her own space and maybe get used to her crib. I have a crib with a curvy front, so I actually would have to sell it and buy one that can butt up smoothly. The way it is, it leaves over a foot of a gap butted against our bed.

I am thinking (HOPING) teething is playing some role in this. She has 2 bottom teeth that just popped up. So maybe that explains all this neediness and anxiety over change....


----------



## katelove (Apr 28, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dixielane*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


After reading this and you update these are my thoughts...

- you have a way to have some sex. Yes flexibility and a bed would be nice but, you have a baby and you live with extended family. I think *some* sex is pretty good even if it's not your ideal location or frequency or not as spontaneous or whatever.

- this will not last forever. You LO will get older and more independent with her sleeping and you will be able to more special grown-up time









I mean this gently but I think your husband needs to just get used to life as it is for the moment. I don't mean you should stop trying to have sex whenever you can and I don't mean that he can't dream about having your LO sleeping in her own bed but is this really worth making everyone miserable over?


----------



## earth2birth (Feb 26, 2010)

Set up a seperate love shack in another room for you and DH to get it on in.

Let the babe stay with you.

Cosleep or don't but making a decision will make like easier for all of you.

Make sure DH isn't being a baby too


----------



## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

her sleep patterns don't sound so bad to me. She wakes a lot without you there, like most babies (even my DD at 15 months) but when you go to bed she sleeps through? I don't even have that!

personally I would not bother torturing her or yourself anymore.....


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *katelove*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 Yes and No. It's both my husband and I really, so not just him. Infact, he's the one who said I should consider just letting her go thru this phase and let us all just sleep, lol.


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sosurreal09*
> 
> her sleep patterns don't sound so bad to me. She wakes a lot without you there, like most babies (even my DD at 15 months) but when you go to bed she sleeps through? I don't even have that!
> 
> personally I would not bother torturing her or yourself anymore.....


 Really? Yes she does sleep thru when I am with her. Infact, last night was sort of a crazy one, she went to sleep at 10, I left her in bed with hubby until I went to bed. She woke up every 1-1.5hr, but when I came to bed she slept with me till 10am without making a peep, lol. So really, when she is in bed with me, I sleep gooood.

I talked to hubby about a sidecar, butting her crib up against ours, and he said that seems like a good solution. She can learn to sleep in it gradually. I know it feels way different.. its a different surface, different feel, and no mommy to snuggle up to.


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *earth2birth*
> 
> Set up a seperate love shack in another room for you and DH to get it on in.
> 
> ...


I wish.. we did have a "room"... but its taken right now..

And our bed is not really move/sound proof if you know what I mean, we have tried it - lol!

No he's not being a baby - we all just want sleep and the attempt at "teaching" her to sleep in her crib has not worked. I feel like maybe I am trying to fix what isnt broke now.. Perhaps we just need to make a minor adjustment (like giving her her own space in a side car against my side) and everyone will be happy.

I will need to figure out how to smoothly butt a sidecar crib up against my side.


----------



## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

I mean if you are dead set about the side cart thing go for it but I have doubts. I think you're DD has a better sleeping pattern than like 50% of MDCs babies/toddlers. If my DD were sleeping that well I wouldn't dare move her! lol

what about DH day off? you guys can't do it in the shower and put DD somewhere safe and baby-proofed? We just leave the door open a crack so if she needs to come in the bathroom b/c she's upset or whatever she can and we stop.

You have a walker or something? She's like 8 m/o right? heck put her in a pack n play with some activities!

no reason it has to be at night KWIM?


----------



## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

oooh also to "speed things up" for me since we have limited time to have "maritals" I got a bullet. Gets me there when he does and doesn't replace him or anything. works for us.


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sosurreal09*
> 
> I mean if you are dead set about the side cart thing go for it but I have doubts. I think you're DD has a better sleeping pattern than like 50% of MDCs babies/toddlers. If my DD were sleeping that well I wouldn't dare move her! lol
> 
> ...


Well the reason I think it would work, is because shes OK sleeping, as long as shes not confined away from me.. if she can scooch and roll to me, I think she will be happy no matter where shes at as long as she can nurse back to sleep immediately with no distruption (like when shes in her crib, and I pick her up to nurse, the whole picking up and getting situated thing WAKES her up). When she was much younger and I was asleep with her alone, I would scoot her far away from me to allow myself some stretching room, but within a couple hours she had made her way back to me, and attached herself to nurse. Hehehe. Plus, I don't think I would expect her to sleep IN her side all night long. I would probably sleep as far away as I can on the edge, to be near her side.. and then when she's fast asleep, I would scooch back to hubby. I think her biggest "trauma" to sleeping in her crib, is she can't doze off with the tatas! She falls asleep so well if I nurse her, but if I am dropping her in her crib there is that brief period of her feeling the sensation of being lowered, and realizing she is no longer nursing.

If she was on her side, we wouldnt disturb her when we do "our thing", either..

Here's hoping??? Does it sound like a bad idea? The idea sounds great anyways to me.. Our bed feels so cramped. It's a queen.. so a few more feet of space for her would be be NICE.

Yes she's almost 8mo so I can easily stick her in her bouncy and she's happy. A couple times now, when we were desperate, we went into our bedroom and left LO with his sister who lives with us temporarily, and I texted her saying "watch her please so we can talk"... Her response was "ewww.. okay" so I think she got the idea. LOL We can do that sometimes, mainly on weekends, it wouldn't really be doable on weekdays. We aren't totally sexless.. I just miss being able to if I want in our own room, like when DD would sleep in her bassinett that she since outgrew.


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sosurreal09*
> 
> oooh also to "speed things up" for me since we have limited time to have "maritals" I got a bullet. Gets me there when he does and doesn't replace him or anything. works for us.


Ohh well we can do it in like 3 min flat, not a prob there, LOL I'm suprised it doesnt kill the mood.. guess we are just happy to get what we can!! We've even opted for doing it in his truck (takes me back to pre-baby days LOL) but NOW we have encountered an issue of her refusing to take a bottle. So now, we can't have alone date nights.

Come to think of it, that might help our sleep issue. I never get to see my DH, we can never go on dates without her, and if we do, we can only be gone for 1-2 hr and it can't be in the evening when its bedtime. If we got a weekly date night, some freedom to do *whatever*, it would help sooo much.


----------



## sharon71 (May 27, 2005)

try showering with DH and having sex there.


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sharon71*
> 
> try showering with DH and having sex there.


blah! Doesnt work - our shower is too small, has nothing to "lean" or, sit on, or anything.. plus we have to use condoms and lube. We've tried this in the past but it NEVER works, lol.


----------



## sharon71 (May 27, 2005)

I say where there is a will there is a way.


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sharon71*
> 
> I say where there is a will there is a way.


lol well, by chance, we have an empty house tonight!


----------



## sharon71 (May 27, 2005)

well get off here and go get some.


----------



## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

hahaha yall are funny.

If you really want the whole side cart thing, there is no talking you out of it. Do what you feel is best just know it may or may not be easy and may or may not work. I am not one of those people who think babies can or should be "trained" I just go with the flow and provide stability wherever my DD's natural routine goes.

My friend's DD is about 3 and she decided the other day she wants her own room and she hasn't gone into her parents at all. I personally believe in the benefits of a family bed. I mean side carting a crib isn't bad, it is co-sleeping, I just wouldn't personally force it if it doesn't go well.

A lot of people will say you are the boss make her do x,y,z yeah ok...a lot of babies do GIVE UP eventually, but that doesn't mean you did what was best for them. If she is telling you "mama I hate this, knock it off" in her baby cries and you just keep on doing it sure she will most likely just give up, but you may lose trust from her as a result.


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sosurreal09*
> 
> hahaha yall are funny.
> 
> ...


 Thank you.. I do not know that I am (our or relationship) is cut out for extremely strict sleep training. I cannot sit and listen to her cry, and I have no problem nurturing her 100% right now, and my personal feeling is if we need "sleep training", we can approach it at an age where she has better concept of it.. I hope I am not just setting myself up for a spoiled toddler who refuses to ever sleep alone, lol. I cannot count the number of times my family tells me "See, told you! She's going to be stuck in your bed till she's 10".. So I get nervous. lol It's just been frusterating trying to fight this... I mean I'd be up with her working on this ALL NIGHT, screaming included...... Am I wrong to just think to try later on when she's more open to the idea? Or will there never be such a day? lol

Oh, and just for laughs, me and hubby did get alone time when everyone was gone and DD was in bed... We're like WHOOHOO! We had a good hour to ourselves, but juuust at the worst moment.. the baby monitor starts blaring her cries... haha!! Go figure!! The baby radar was going off in her little head I think! The same radar that makes her cry when momma juuuust fixes her own dinner plate, or when momma has shampoo in her hair in the shower. LOL


----------



## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

I absolutely believe and have witnessed that kids don't stay in you're bed forever. They all move on when they are ready. Heck when she is old enough start a sibling bed, where the kids can chose to co-sleep together ...or not.

I don't believe in sleep training at any age. My BFF sleep trained her baby at 9 m/o...shes 20 m/o and STILL not STTN. It's all BS it really and truly is.

Children under 3 y/o wake at night b/c their brains are not developmentally capable of not waking. When they are older they usually just roll over and continue to sleep. You're DD is already doing that as long as you are near, so that is a big step period.

You have to not let people get to you.

I breastfeed and always get "when will you just give her formula" or now since she's older "just wean her already!!!" my BFF formula fed and always got "Why aren't you breastfeeding, you are horrible ect ect"

No one can win either way, it is about doing what YOU feel is best period. No matter how you parent in someone elses eyes you are doing it dead wrong and he will be destroyed b/c x,y,z.

babies can not be spoiled period. My DD is a toddler and she is the most laid back and confident kid it's amazing. Whenever she is in childcare at church or playing with another child or we are out and about ALL we get are compliments about how well behaved/confident/independent/laid back/good she is. AP supports her ability to feel confident and go explore b/c she's not afraid. She knows we support her 100% and are there for her every bump and bruise or whatever need she has it has and will be met.

Every single kid she has been around that was left to CIO (even just for 10 mins) is not like her they cling to their moms they are afraid to explore. Seriously I can tell which kids are Ap'd or not every time we go to a play group! Sure some AP kids still have a clingy temperment, but seriously you can see the difference, at least I can.

She was in the pre-school room at church last week (b/c all the kids her age cry the whole time and I hate putting her in the baby/toddler room) I told them she's so laid back don't worry she will be fine. I set her up with some toys and started an activity for her and left. 2hrs later (yes church is 2hrs for us) we went and got her and all the "teachers" were amazed by how she didn't cry once, shared with all the kids, was hugging everyone, and was so well behaved and self reliant. We couldn't stop getting compliments on her!

I can 100% say I have no regrets APing, co-sleeping, extended BFing, BWing...everything has helped her be the child she is. She was always a high needs baby/kid, she's very spirited as well. She has come a long way and is who she is today b/c we parented to her needs, had we gone the other way and "trained her" and forced her into things I know she wouldn't be how she is now.

DH was skeptical at first about AP but now you should here him. Everyone always says how happy and confident she is and he is always like "We AP and co-sleep, she's still BFing you know, it has all helped her so much, tell you're future wives to parent this way you won't regret it" It's too funny.

AP builds the foundation for their lives.

Have you read any AP books? I highly recommend the Dr Sears Discipline book. It has a lot of info on GD and why doing training and things aren't good for babies or toddlers. The baby book has a lot of info too.


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sosurreal09*
> 
> I absolutely believe and have witnessed that kids don't stay in you're bed forever. They all move on when they are ready. Heck when she is old enough start a sibling bed, where the kids can chose to co-sleep together ...or not.
> 
> ...


 LOL Funny about the "future wives" thing.. haha!

Yes I EBF, and I am getting alot of comments because DD is not even on solids yet. We offer stuff, from puree, to real adult food but she hasn't really been interested enough to eat, and chew. Mostly lick, lol.

I've gotten comments like, "oh feed her rice cereal at night in her bottle to help her sleep".. then I counter that with "she refuses a bottle".. so they say "okay, well spoon feed her".. I say "She refuses to eat food, only breastmilk"... Doesn't go down so well, lol.

I like Dr Sears ALOT, and love his articles about his studying his wife and children in their family bed.. how he watched her and their babies, how they interacted all night, etc. Very interesting. I will have to get his book. I read Elizabeth Pantleys, but honestly, it was not what I expected. It seemed she mostly just encouraged patience, and keeping track of sleep habits.. so I was let down that there was not more information in it.

I will check into Dr sears book. BTW what is "GD"? (I might know, but for right now its totally escaping me)


----------



## sharon71 (May 27, 2005)

About the forever thing I'm beginning to wonder about that DD is 5.5 and still sleeping with either me or me and DH. LOL we want our bed back.


----------



## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sharon71*
> 
> About the forever thing I'm beginning to wonder about that DD is 5.5 and still sleeping with either me or me and DH. LOL we want our bed back.


UH OH lol well I am sure he will get there at some point. Did he just start school? Maybe it's a lot of change right now?

GD= gentle discipline.

People always push the rice cereal!! My Dr said don't even bother with it lol She's a bit crunchy though so I am lucky. She completely supports everything we do (except she claims to be pro-vax, but the office itself is...so..)

OH my SIL did sleep training too and she let him CIO every night for 2+ hours to go to bed. (I watched him during the day and AP'ed him and did not know she was doing this) Anyway she did this everyday until he "learned" not to bother anymore and he stopped cryin as much... Fast forward he is 4 y/o now and not STTN (once thy can get out of bed what do you do then? lol) and he has a very strange relationship with SIL. He will be at her all day long and tell her he doesn't love her and and just cry and cry. It's so sad and IMO he behaves like that with her b/c she did that to him. He is only like that with her and is always like that with her. When he was 2.5 y/o he stayed with us for over a month and he was fine. Whenever he sees me he lights up runs over and says "me love you, me miss you". Now I will say his mom has some other issues too but I think her doing that to him has changed the way he may have turned out by not doing it. Anyways it was all in vain b/c now he's older and fights sleeping all the time and will wake up and scream and do all these things at night. They are also co-sleeping now b/c she wasn't getting any sleep with him being in his own bed.

so CIO only seems to "work" during a short period of time b/c once they can climb out of the crib or have their own beds they can do what they want essentially.


----------



## Dixielane (Mar 11, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sosurreal09*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 Very true. And good point, they can climb out eventually, or get up if they are in a big kid bed. I don't know that I want to hold a kid hostage in bed -- seems counterproductive.

And on the rice cereal, yes, I don't know why it's pushed so much, that stuff is GROSS. I can't see a breastfed baby who gets to experience different flavors in BM, enjoying rice cereal at all. I wonder how much flavor gets in breastmilk, because I eat very very spicey.. and so far the only thing DD went crazy for was a piece of seasoned chicken that I held for her and let her suck on.


----------



## savithny (Oct 23, 2005)

In the end, though, a mother who isn't getting enough sleep isn't going to do anyone any favors, which is why some people might find sidecarring a better solution than to continue to struggle to make something work that isn't working, KWIM? It's perfectly possible to do any number of different sleep arrangements without anyone crying (for hours or otherwise), and I think there are plenty of sleep arrangments that fall under the larger phrase "attachment parenting" without making someone feel they're a failure because they're "Not doing AP right," or because they're miserable co-sleeping the the way "everyone says you should." If a sidecar or an Arms Reach works better, then everyone is happier. If a crib in the same room lets everyone rest without tears, then everyone is happier.


----------



## sosurreal09 (Nov 20, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *savithny*
> 
> In the end, though, a mother who isn't getting enough sleep isn't going to do anyone any favors, which is why some people might find sidecarring a better solution than to continue to struggle to make something work that isn't working, KWIM? It's perfectly possible to do any number of different sleep arrangements without anyone crying (for hours or otherwise), and I think there are plenty of sleep arrangments that fall under the larger phrase "attachment parenting" without making someone feel they're a failure because they're "Not doing AP right," or because they're miserable co-sleeping the the way "everyone says you should." If a sidecar or an Arms Reach works better, then everyone is happier. If a crib in the same room lets everyone rest without tears, then everyone is happier.


I agree I was not saying she was doing anything wrong with side carting her. She DOES sleep good in the family bed which is why I said she's crazy messing with that lol. I did not mean to intend she was doing anything wrong. I feel that sleep training is wrong. All I said was it may or may not work out. She was having problems with the baby crying for hours when she was trying the crib out. Obvs if she had transitioned to a crib with no problem, there would not really be a discussion here lol

*I apologize if that's how my opinion was perceived.*


----------

