# Letting children self regulate with food



## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

Hi,
I've just finished reading 'Are You Hungry' by Jane R.Hirschmann and Lela Zaphiropouios. Having many food issues myself that i don't want to pass onto my children and a really picky 6 year old I thought i'd give the whole self regulation thing a go.

So today i told them they could eat what ever they want, when ever they want. DS1 has eaten 4 bowls of ice cream and 8 bowls of cereal and DS2 has had 3 bowls of ice cream, 5 bowls of cereal and a muffin! So i am expecting this 'testing' phase to last a few weeks till they can trust me to give them what they are hungry for and don't keep on feeling the need to eat restricted foods because they are no longer restricted. But at the moment i feel like the worlds worst mother for letting my children eat such rubbish.

So has any one else tried this, how did it work?

I think DS1 might be on the spectrum which accounts for his pickiness - will this way of eating help him eat a wider range of foods or will it encourage his food obsessiveness? Previously we have tried to 'make' him eat new foods by bribing him with sweet stuff but that just doesn't feel right to me. I hate dinner times being a battle with me putting food in front of them and them not wanting it - given the choice they eat fruit, cereal, bread, pasta, carrots and corn on the cob.

So am i creating sugar eating monsters by letting them self regulate?

Vikki


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## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

Well...I have read Mindful Eating which talks a lot about the difference between external and internal eating cues. (Like portion size, big plates, food availability, and so on.) It's a great read. It points out that most humans regulate reasonably well, but can be off by 100 calories or so a day. And that does impact on health in the long run, if the 'off' is always 'over' on sweets and things.

Before the age of about 5 (varies a bit for each kid) kids do generally self-regulate really well. After that they become the sophisticated social human beings we all are and their food choices can definitely be influenced by a lot of things including advertising, peers and so on.

So I have come to believe that with school-aged kids parental guidance is helpful and even important, as is setting kids up for success.

That doesn't mean regulating every bite or every meal. It might be as simple as not buying more ice cream when it's gone (although with siblings, I think it would be important not to penalize the sibling that doesn't get there first, so separate containers or something). It might be making sure the fronts of cupboards are full of healthy & appetizing choices. Or setting budgets.

So basically...I think that self-regulation is pretty complex once kids are older.


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## Kristine233 (Jul 15, 2003)

We do kind of a mix, we don't keep much in the way of "junk foods" in the house either. And that's not just because of the kids, but also us adults. My kids prefer fruit anyways. Meal times are regulated (as in, we have a meal plan, eat as a family and they "try" things that are served), but there are free for all foods in the house for other times. Sandwiches are always ok, as is cereal and oatmeal, I usually have a free for all fruit on hand too like grapes or bananas. Then we have a actual snacks, mostly used for school. Generally they each have their own set of snacks and they regulate how they use it, they know I only restock every 2 weeks so if they eat them all right away they'll be stuck with "boring" snacks for school. After they figured that out they started to regulate those on their own.

I can't allow full access to everything because there is no way we could afford it, but I think a good balance and available options has worked well for us.


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## jkpmomtoboys (Jun 1, 2004)

I am a big believer in honoring the kids' internal food cues. This means that when we can be we are a little more flexible with their meal times and also let them graze whenever they want. It also means that they don't have to "clean their plates" at any meal.

However, I also have a responsibility to provide them healthy choices and balance. So no they don't have to finish everything on their plates at dinner, but if they aren't hungry enough to at least try everything on their plate, they probably aren't hungry enough for dessert.

They must have just a little bit of healthy breakfast before they go to school so their bodies know it's time to wake up.

And I try to steer them to healthy choices. How about a banana? How about yogurt? Let's pick the whole grain bread this time - see how much fuller it makes you?

It's a tricky balance. For example, my younger ds is inclined to eat a tiny breakfast, a big morning snack, a tiny lunch, a big afternoon snack, a smaller dinner and then want a snack right before bed. It wouldn't be my choice, but as long as what he chooses from is healthy, then I honor his cues.


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

We do this - we just don't buy the rubbish. If it isn't in our house - who is gonna eat it?


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## ann_of_loxley (Sep 21, 2007)

I will add that this is mostly because I struggle a lot with food issues (being restricted in my own childhood) and don't like currently being the size I am - don't want to get bigger and have no self control if it is in the house - so we don't buy the crap because _*I*_ might eat it all! lol


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## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

Well i've been making healthy suggestions and it seems like the need for cereal has eased off for today at least. Before today i guess we have always been pretty relaxed with food, i don't make them try or eat anything but i always ask and there is always loads of healthy food in the house. I guess it doesn't make so much sense if you've not read the book! I want to be able to leave them to make healthy choices with what we have in the house but take away all the coercion - i want them to trust their own bodies to know what they want and when they want it. DS1 does not do coercion at all, if you push anything he runs away, i think he would eat better if i did not make such a big deal out of it - i tell him what the foods contain and what they will do to his body.


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## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
I will add that this is mostly because I struggle a lot with food issues (being restricted in my own childhood) and don't like currently being the size I am - don't want to get bigger and have no self control if it is in the house - so we don't buy the crap because _*I*_ might eat it all! lol

This is me too but following the book says that you should let them choose what they want - so i let them choose some ice cream which DH went to buy -the theory being that if you let them have ice cream as often as they want the need for it will abate and it will be seen psychologically as no better / worse than cabbage - it is all food. It's because i can't have 'bad' foods in the house without binging on them that i am interested in this route.


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## rightkindofme (Apr 14, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puddleduck* 
This is me too but following the book says that you should let them choose what they want - so i let them choose some ice cream which DH went to buy -the theory being that if you let them have ice cream as often as they want the need for it will abate and it will be seen psychologically as no better / worse than cabbage - it is all food. It's because i can't have 'bad' foods in the house without binging on them that i am interested in this route.

As anecdata, I grew up in a ridiculously pro-sugar house (my mom thinks that oatmeal cookies are a very healthy breakfast... and I'm talking a couple of cups of sugar in a batch) and she put Pepsi in my bottle and so on. I very rarely mindlessly eat sugar. I don't crave it very often. My husband grew up with sugar being verboten and as a result he is flat out an addict. I eat as much sugar as I do (still pretty low for a standard American) because he pushes it constantly. I can have a pint of ice cream sit in the freezer for months. As a result I'm pretty ok with letting my kids self-regulate. When she gets ice cream she is awesome about having some... and then knowing she's done. For snack she is more likely to ask for nuts and fruit than cookies though I don't have a problem with her having cookies.

So far we have been limiting sugar after 7pm, but I've been seeing data lately that makes me think even that is kind of silly. If we'll let her have other high carb snacks after 7 we probably shouldn't care about her having some sugar.

Uhm it's worth pointing out that with the exception of fruit she probably only has sugary food a couple of times a week and she has fairly small servings when she does eat it. It's not an all-day sugar binge just because she can have it when she wants it.


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## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *rightkindofme* 
As anecdata, I grew up in a ridiculously pro-sugar house (my mom thinks that oatmeal cookies are a very healthy breakfast... and I'm talking a couple of cups of sugar in a batch) and she put Pepsi in my bottle and so on. I very rarely mindlessly eat sugar. I don't crave it very often. My husband grew up with sugar being verboten and as a result he is flat out an addict. I eat as much sugar as I do (still pretty low for a standard American) because he pushes it constantly. I can have a pint of ice cream sit in the freezer for months. As a result I'm pretty ok with letting my kids self-regulate. When she gets ice cream she is awesome about having some... and then knowing she's done. For snack she is more likely to ask for nuts and fruit than cookies though I don't have a problem with her having cookies.

So far we have been limiting sugar after 7pm, but I've been seeing data lately that makes me think even that is kind of silly. If we'll let her have other high carb snacks after 7 we probably shouldn't care about her having some sugar.

Uhm it's worth pointing out that with the exception of fruit she probably only has sugary food a couple of times a week and she has fairly small servings when she does eat it. It's not an all-day sugar binge just because she can have it when she wants it.

That would be ideal, them choosing to have sugar a couple of times a week and to be honest normally they don't have a lot. I do restrict cereal to every other day and only 2 bowls and we only buy ice cream once a month, chocolate only occasionally, so by normal standards they don't eat much but i want them to chose it not me to force it.

I grew up in a house where my mother was constantly on a diet - she put me on a diet at the age of 14 and i've been on/off diets ever since, i have no idea how to eat like a normal person. She used food for comfort/bribery and i really don't want to pass it on.


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## Drummer's Wife (Jun 5, 2005)

We let the kids self regulate with food. But, it would be rare for them to eat 8 bowls of cereal and 4 of ice cream, b/c we rarely have those in our house. And really, when I do buy a box of cereal, with four kids, it's usually gone in about a day - which is partly why I don't buy it often, the other reason being it's not very healthy, even the non-sugary kinds. Ice cream is a pretty rare treat and is also gone in a day or two. So, my kids know that when a specific food item is gone, it's gone. Even things like blackberries, b/c at the very least, I won't be buying them again for a week or so. Staples that are always available - such as cheese, nuts, fruits, vegetables, bread, etc., I do replenish often (I go to the grocery store at least twice a week), but I don't regularly buy food items that I wouldn't be okay with them eating frequently.

I do think kids will eat what their bodies need if they have healthy food options available to have as they please. If they aren't used to self-regulating and there are unhealthy options available, of course they are more likely to choose cookies over carrots. And they may even gorge on the junk while it's there, especially if it's a new thing to not have to ask first before helping themselves.

I try really hard to fill our home with real, whole foods that I can live with my kids eating when they please. We do have most meals together, and I don't cook separate things for picky kids (it's just not an issue here), but I also make foods I know everyone will like - or I leave out the green chile, or whatever, for those who think it's too spicy. But snacks and eating in general, is pretty free-range in my home. The only one who really asks first is the 3 yr old, and that's just b/c he can't help himself as easily.

All that isn't to say we don't buy chips or bake sweets at times - we do. But again, when it's gone, it's gone, and my kids do pretty well not choosing cake every time they want a snack for the couple days it's still available.


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

And I grew up in a family where we could eat what we wanted, pretty much, although my mother was a bit of a health-freak in her own way: She wouldn't put sugar in pancakes, made most things fat-free if possible and put grated vegetables in pancakes, baking etc., but her cupboards were always full of store-bought cookies, loads of ice cream in freezer etc., soda in garage. And we could always help ourself from an early age. I used to come home from school at about age 9, and curl up with a book, a bowl of ice cream and a bottle of soda. My mother's concern with that would be that I insisted on reading rather than being outside playing with the other kids. We rarely had candy in my house, and so candy was something we bought with pocket money given on Saturdays. And chips was a family night treat, so we were not allowed to open any bags of chips in the cupboard. There was always plenty of vegetables and fruits, and we were welcome to everything.

I have struggled with food issues (over-eating, emotional eating, weight gain...) since my early teens. I've also been tired for years. When I cut out sugar some years ago (the first time, as my inability to eat almost anything during pregnancy, caused me to choose to eat anything I fancied, as it wasn't much) I rapidly lost weight, and got a lot more energy, and lost my need to always graze on food. I feel so much better, since I cut it out again almost a year ago!

My sister is a recovered anorexic. She stopped eating butter and fat at about age 6, by her own choice. When she was about 8 or 9 we both had a candy promise (no candy for a whole year, except 3 pre-chosen days. and our parents paid us about $100, I think). as we had friends who were doing. My sister didn't start eating candy again after that year. Over the years her health-conscious approach, encouraged by my parents agreement that it was healthy, took over more and more. She is an athlete, which played a big part. By her late teens my parents finally realized that she was severely anorexic. Her last year of High School was a nightmare, then she got a scholarship to a college with a program for eating disorders, where she did, over the next three years, recover, at least in body. She is eating now, but she always feels guilty about eating unhealthy food, feels bad about herself, has a need to exercise a lot and has plenty of depressive episodes.

My brother is the healthiest of us. An athlete as well, although he has another day job, he eats what he wants. He is extremely picky with food, took after our sister with some of her ideas. On the other hand, he's likely to finish a litre carton of ice cream in a couple of days, and will usually be eating ice cream every day (and if he doesn't do that as much in his own flat as at my parents, it is because he is VERY careful with money).

Both my sister, brother and father eats a lot of ice cream. None of them are fat, because they all do a LOT of sports. My mother's thing is eating whole packets of cookies in one sitting, but she's also very sporty and not at all fat.

I really don't think anyone of us learnt to regulate food intake by being allowed to eat what we wanted. I know that by the time I went to university I had lost all feelings of hunger and had no idea why I was eating. I could go a day without food, or eat constantly. It took me several years of hard work to learn to recognize hunger, and other feelings.


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## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

*AislinCarys* Thanks for your reply. Do you think you're food issues may have stemmed from your mother being obsessive with food? Maybe you had free access to all foods but little knowledge to go with it?

At the moment most of the replies i am getting seem to say allow free access but only to healthy foods - that is what we normally do but do you not think that they should be able to make healthy choices when surrounded with unhealthy foods? My friends children eat very healthily but non healthy foods are v.restricted but when they are at a party with chocolate and crisps they go crazy. I want my children to eat their vegetables because they want them and they know it will make their body strong not because they will get to eat ice cream afterwards because that is saying that ice cream is better than vegetables.

I personally did the eat when your hungry and what you want for 2 weeks - and when i actually ate what i wanted when i was hungry i ate 95% healthy foods and so much less than normally - it made me realise how much i eat when i'm bored, tiered, distracted etc It made me realise how I link eating to doing something else like reading or watching a dvd.

I want to give my children the gift of eating normally and it is really hard because i don't know how to do it myself.


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## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jkpmomtoboys* 
I am a big believer in honoring the kids' internal food cues. This means that when we can be we are a little more flexible with their meal times and also let them graze whenever they want. It also means that they don't have to "clean their plates" at any meal.

However, I also have a responsibility to provide them healthy choices and balance. So no they don't have to finish everything on their plates at dinner, but if they aren't hungry enough to at least try everything on their plate, they probably aren't hungry enough for dessert.

They must have just a little bit of healthy breakfast before they go to school so their bodies know it's time to wake up.

And I try to steer them to healthy choices. How about a banana? How about yogurt? Let's pick the whole grain bread this time - see how much fuller it makes you?

It's a tricky balance. For example, my younger ds is inclined to eat a tiny breakfast, a big morning snack, a tiny lunch, a big afternoon snack, a smaller dinner and then want a snack right before bed. It wouldn't be my choice, but as long as what he chooses from is healthy, then I honor his cues.

That's what we do. We do have treats in the house and they can have them. But they also know they need to eat the healthy food as well. I don't want to raise my kids to eat everything they're given just because it's there, but I also don't want them to grow thinking its ok to waste food.


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## deditus (Feb 22, 2006)

We do 3 meals, 2-3 snacks, and dessert. Dd can eat whatever she wants of what is offered. We have quite a restricted diet due to dd's food intolerances and I don't want her to feel deprived because of that, so we have plenty of healthy treats that she can have. Like homemade coconut milk ice cream or chia seed pudding. She does remarkable well at self regulating, imo, and asks for stuff like asparagus and bone-in, skin-on sardines.


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

We take an in between approach.

I'm not a short order cook or a snack food vendor. So if I were going to go wholly in the self-regulation direction, there wouldn't be ice cream in the house to start with.

I think overall self regulation is a really good thing, but to me that doesn't mean that *anything* goes. It's more about not rigidly restricting or persistently pushing food, not keeping to rigid schedules for eating (though we have a flexible routine for eating), and that sort of thing.


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## lilyka (Nov 20, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puddleduck* 
but do you not think that they should be able to make healthy choices when surrounded with unhealthy foods? My friends children eat very healthily but non healthy foods are v.restricted but when they are at a party with chocolate and crisps they go crazy. I want my children to eat their vegetables because they want them and they know it will make their body strong not because they will get to eat ice cream afterwards because that is saying that ice cream is better than vegetables.


I am a grown up. If someone was willing to pay for and go get ice cream and I had no knowledge of what it did to the size of my butt you bet I would eat nothing but all the days of my life. I like veggies. I like ice cream more.

I ate fairly healthy as a child and in high school not because I I wanted too but because we were too poor for processed food/junk/cereal/soda etc. (we never did have a lot of fresh fruits or veggies though, white bread) I was given lunch money but often skipped lunch in favor of saving the money. Once I moved out and had money (the two did not happen at the same time) I instantly started eating worse. one would figure I would self regulate and drift back to my veggie loving state. Honestly, 90% of the time i would choose ice cream and sugar cereal if I had the choice and money was no object. I buy and eat veggies because I know they are good for me. I am also on a mission to spite my mother by having low cholesterol because she keep insisting hers is hereditary (its not. The only thing passed down in that family is an affection for deep fat frying). So I do self regulate now (after about 15 years of craziness caused by freedom and access ) but more out of knowledge than some intuitive drive. The knowledge of weight gain is the only thing keeping me from going to the candy stash right now. If I was not motivated to lose weight nothing would stop me from making bad food choices. I like candy and ice cream and cake and cookies. I chose veggies because I know they are good for me and that stuff is not.

as for kids and forbidden fruit etc. I raised all three of my kids the same way. Their relation to junk food, over eating, trying new things and making healthy choices reflects more the personality than anything else. They all are very true to form in eating. M my oldest is a junk food fanatic and show little restraint (but she is like this in most areas. making good choices is hard for her). She hates trying new things, is the pickiest eater of the three, and is the first to break our religious fasts every opportunity she gets. She is 14. L is the one who will stop half way through a piece of cake and say "I am full." She is very thoughtful in most areas of life, weighing pros and cons and making an informed decision. Always eager to eat new things, most likely to choose something unusual/new/ethnic/healthy to eat, and usually is eager to keep religious fast periods without encouragement from me. She is 10. A. won't say no to a serving of junk or another but I don't have to worry about her sneaking food into her room and she doesn't usually beg for junk. and she also remembers the next time how it felt when she over did it last time. She will try new things a hundred times but rarely likes them. Is moderately picky but not in a troubling way. She is prone to a little impulsiveness bound by regret. Never extreme and usually in the middle of the other two. Oh and she will keep the religious fasts but only if i ask her to. She is 8. I tell you this because their ability to try new things and make good choices and show self control have nothing to do with how they were raised with regards to food. It fits more into the overall personalities as they were all given more or less the same foods. Ava probably had the worst diet of processed food and sugar because she was born during a very hard time....but still she is moderate and average in all things. I could drop her off a tall building and she would only be moderately injured. She was the baby you read about in parenting books


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## wholewheatchick (Mar 1, 2009)

OP, I get what you are trying to do, and I think it sounds awesome, and ideal. I just don't know how feasible it is, for most people.

I eat super, super, super healthy. And I like it. I honestly enjoy hummus and veggies and eggplant and goat cheese and that kind of stuff. Barley is probalby one of my favorite foods!

But I also like cakes and cookies and white bread. Not too much; I wouldn't say that I have a sweet tooth, necessarily, but I do believe that that is because I have trained myself not to, in a way. For me, sugar is an addictive substance. It doesn't make me wired or anything too bad like that, but if I eat a lot of sweets one week, then that is what I want to eat the next week, too. Whereas if I have gone a solid week without any sugar, then I am able to fully appreciate the sweetness of grapes and toasted whole wheat bread, and am satisfied by that. And, if I have a week or so without sugar, it takes less of it to make me feel like I have gotten a "fix" if that makes sense. Whereas if I've been eating more sugar (like lately!) then it takes more sugar in something for it to taste sweet.

So I guess what I am saying is that I do a pretty good job of self regulation by keeping mostly only healthy stuff in the house. I suppose if I had more access to sweet things, then I might have more of a problem.

I do think it awesome, though, that you are really trying to help your kids out with this. It has been a serious, serious struggle with me, complete with anorexia, to finally figure out how I need to eat to feel good, look good, and be healthy. I come from a family with some messed up eating habits, so I am glad to have "gotten out" of that, but it hasn't been easy. I wish my mom had not made me feel guilty about wanting fuller fat foods when I was in high school. But, I turned out ok in the long run.


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## Shahbazin (Aug 3, 2006)

We're sort of doing the "self regulating" thing, mixed with talk about what things our bodies need to function well & grow, & budgeting. We shop 1x a week, & don't buy too many snacky things - once they're gone, they're gone until next week. Ice cream is for birthdays, since DH can't leave it alone.







I do talk about what protein, carbohydrates, vegetables, vitamins, dairy, etc. do for us - and that we need to buy (& fill up on) the important "growing" foods first, then we can have some snacks/dessert afterwards, once we've taken care of what our bodies need (we like to eat some things our bodies don't need, because they taste good; & that's OK, in moderation). We have a small garden, which is useful, as they see where some foods come from, & they like to "graze", on tomatos, pea pods, spinach, lettuce, dill, cilantro, parsley, chard, nasturtium flowers, etc. I think some guidance & modeling are important, because how else will kids have a knowledge base to form their own opinions?

I'm an extremely picky eater myself - I don't like funny textures or certain flavors - so I'm trying to do better by my kids, & while they're mostly interested in a rote set of things, I try to give them a variety of foods at each meal, & provide/encourage healthy snacks. For snacks, they like fruit (apples, oranges, peaches, plums, bananas, grapes, kiwi, melon, pineapple, berries, etc), vegetables (spinach leaves, a large raw carrot, frozen green beans (why frozen?







), raw swiss chard (from garden), cheese, frozen juice popsicles, the usual dry cereals (o shaped, chex), & the ubiquitous cheddar fish crackers.


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## shnitzel (Jan 6, 2010)

I tried this on myself a few years ago, and still try to have a similar policy.
I can`t remember which book I read, likely one by Geneen Roth but I believe she talks a lot about this concept, having all your "binge" foods around and letting yourself eat as much as you want so that you lose that feeling of urgency when you eat it because you know you can always have more. After years of an eating disorder (I was at the very tail end at that point) it really did help me and I can now have a pint of ice cream sit in the freezer, which still today does at times seem miraculous.
I don't think I would try it with children in that capacity. I fully believe in kids ability to self regulate healthy food from day one if not disrupted by adults but a lot of kids seem to have a hard time self regulating very sugary foods, I work with children and the way they act when candy is involved can be scary. I think instead of offering it and asking what they want I would have it in the house and while it is there let them serve themselves without saying anything, but I would also make sure to prepare and serve real meals. In order to not want only ice cream I think they need to have some proper food also. If they don't have food issues already I think making food an issue can be a problem. I personally would try not to bring it up and model healthy eating and body talk around them.
Honestly, I also don't think I could ever watch my kids eat that much ice cream without feeling panicked, 95% of my food issues are gone but when I watch someone engaging in eating disordered behaviour like that I get very panicky.


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

I know it doesn't work for all kids. Some kids can't self regulate.

I have friends who's kids can eat what and when and where they want. They have three kids. Two eat fine, and there's no problem, the third is 30 lbs overweight at age nine. She can't self regulate. She loves to eat. She's hungry all the time. She opens the pantry and says "YAY!"


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
don't like currently being the size I am - don't want to get bigger and have no self control if it is in the house - so we don't buy the crap because _*I*_ might eat it all! lol

That's my life!


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

DD has always self regulated her food intake. When we do buy or make sweets it's in very small quantities. Mainly we just buy healthy foods. If we do have ice cream in the house my DD eats it. I usually buy a pint or even smaller container when we do get it.


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## meemee (Mar 30, 2005)

i have not read any of the books... but self regulating is how i have led our parenting lives. it has worked.

i am not a sugar person so sugar does not really enter our house. but i have gone out of the house and gotten dd some icecream because she was longing for some. at other days i havent because it just hasnt been convenient. right after she turned 8 she had her first whole pint by herself. and loved it and loved the experience. but not since. in fact i think we've only eaten icecream a few times since then.

at 3 dd has had icecream for bfast. and a few minutes later eaten her oatmeal and fruit.

one thing i did till dd was 18 months old. no sugar. at 18 months she did her first egg hunt and ate chocolate for the first time and had chocolate for lunch. and then didnt eat chocolate for another 6 years.

i personally eat healthy. dd grew up eating healthy. still nursing i was able to continue my healthy food habits. now i've loosened a little but still its mostly healthy. not because i have an 8 year old at home. its just how i choose to lead my life.

we are not morning eaters. neither dd or i feel hungry in teh morning. we can go without food till noon easily. but we do eat bfast. somedays we skip.

however when dd wanted candy i gave her. as she started eating more and more i asked her to watch out and its not healthy. she started self regulating. today she could have a candy bedroom and never eat a candy. in fact i end up giving away our halloween candy because the moment candy enters the house after that nigth she stops eating it.

i honor dd's food needs. which also includes honoring her need for junk. this morning she had apple pie for lunch. but had a huge salad with some turkey for dinner. so it all evens out eventually.


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## ctdoula (Dec 26, 2002)

I think the *idea* is wonderful, but I honestly believe some people do not have the ability to self regulate. It's not part of their brain make up or something.

Also, it's easier to self regulate in a society/life where junk (ice cream, processed foods, candy, cookies, sugary stuff) didn't exist. Let's be real... that stuff tastes good - it's chemcialy created to make us want it.

I think it's better to be somewhere in the middle. Restrict access to most crap & then allow them to have free choices within the structure of your family.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ctdoula* 
I think the *idea* is wonderful, but I honestly believe some people do not have the ability to self regulate. It's not part of their brain make up or something.

Also, it's easier to self regulate in a society/life where junk (ice cream, processed foods, candy, cookies, sugary stuff) didn't exist. Let's be real... that stuff tastes good - it's chemcialy created to make us want it.

I think it's better to be somewhere in the middle. Restrict access to most crap & then allow them to have free choices within the structure of your family.

I read a research study that found that self regulating could cause too much weight gain in children if the food provided included a lot of white grain products. Our brains are wired to self regulate when we're eating naturally occurring real foods. Also once a person learns to eat to ignore their bodies cues they lose their ability to self regulate instinctively. For self regulating to work for our children we need to buy healthy foods and let them do from birth. When I make cookies, waffles or muffins, I only use whole wheat. My DD is not quite 5 and when she sees something interesting at the store she asks me to read the ingredients. She knows if there's stuff in it that isn't 'real' food, like HFCS, we don't buy it. A family can still have 'goodies' and not eat garbage, it's just a little more work.


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## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

Maybe we all have problems self regulating as adults as we are not given the chance as children? After all we breastfeed on demand but then instigate meal times etc when we wean.

As for the sugar thing - I'm undecided if it's evil sugar crack or if the addiction is psychological rather than physical and down to the forbidden foods thing. Also if you eat when you are actually hungry i have found that you don't want junk, if you are given free choice you make good decisions.

The food my children are eating at the moment is horrific but i believe they are testing my word, they don't believe they will always be able to eat like this (their choice of foods not the all day ice cream) and are therefore scoffing as much rubbish as they can before i come to my senses.

Anyway i am continuing the trial today with myself and DH participating, so we can be positive role models for our children.

Please do not panic, i am also teaching them about healthy eating and budgets so they will not scoff ice cream for the rest of their lives (fingers crossed).


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## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *meemee* 
i honor dd's food needs. which also includes honoring her need for junk. this morning she had apple pie for lunch. but had a huge salad with some turkey for dinner. so it all evens out eventually.

this is what i am aiming for eventually.


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## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wholewheatchick* 
OP, I get what you are trying to do, and I think it sounds awesome, and ideal. I just don't know how feasible it is, for most people.

I eat super, super, super healthy. And I like it. I honestly enjoy hummus and veggies and eggplant and goat cheese and that kind of stuff. Barley is probalby one of my favorite foods!

But I also like cakes and cookies and white bread. Not too much; I wouldn't say that I have a sweet tooth, necessarily, but I do believe that that is because I have trained myself not to, in a way. For me, sugar is an addictive substance. It doesn't make me wired or anything too bad like that, but if I eat a lot of sweets one week, then that is what I want to eat the next week, too. Whereas if I have gone a solid week without any sugar, then I am able to fully appreciate the sweetness of grapes and toasted whole wheat bread, and am satisfied by that. And, if I have a week or so without sugar, it takes less of it to make me feel like I have gotten a "fix" if that makes sense. Whereas if I've been eating more sugar (like lately!) then it takes more sugar in something for it to taste sweet.

So I guess what I am saying is that I do a pretty good job of self regulation by keeping mostly only healthy stuff in the house. I suppose if I had more access to sweet things, then I might have more of a problem.

I do think it awesome, though, that you are really trying to help your kids out with this. It has been a serious, serious struggle with me, complete with anorexia, to finally figure out how I need to eat to feel good, look good, and be healthy. I come from a family with some messed up eating habits, so I am glad to have "gotten out" of that, but it hasn't been easy. I wish my mom had not made me feel guilty about wanting fuller fat foods when I was in high school. But, I turned out ok in the long run.









Thank you - i think you do 'get' what i'm trying to say - i'm not sure if it is possible but i think i should give it a try and if it doesn't work i'll try something else. I don't want my children to emotionally attach to food, I think then they will be able to make better choices whatever food is put in front of them.


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## wholewheatchick (Mar 1, 2009)

I was thinking about this some more last night, and perhaps you could frame it so that there isn't "bad" food and "good" food, but instead that all food has consequences, or effects. Some food is more expensive; some food makes you feel good and full of energy, some food drains you of energy, some food makes you gain weight more easily, some food makes you feel full faster, or keep you full longer. Eating too much of any one thing probably isn't good...even if you eat, say, too many blueberries, you'll end up with diarrhea.







So these effects aren't inherently good or bad, they just are facts.

I also wanted to add that I was very, very, very much wanting chocolate a week or so ago. That's all I could think about. So I went and bought a bag of dark chocolate Ghiradelli chocolate chips, and put them in the freezer. I probalby have about 5 a day or so. But now that they are there, and I do mean, almost the moment I put them in the fridge, I stopped wanting them so badly. They still taste good, but simply knowing that if I want them, I can have them, as much as I want, has put them out of my mind. Food and the human brain sure is a complicated relationship!


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

If parents are restricting what is in the house, is it really self-regulating?

I tend to think that there are a lot of reasons we tend to choose sweet, fatty foods. Some are cultural, some are based on our own experiences, but some are biological. We crave sweets, salt, and fatty foods.

I think this can be exaggerated by being exposed to those foods a lot - rather than being satisfied we can want them more and more.

As far as self regulation goes, I think small kids need to learn to do it by being given the opportunity to eat a variety of healthy foods when they are hungry, as well as being encouraged to try new things. I think as kids get older, they need to learn how to make good choices even when less healthy foods are on offer, and that happens over time. Like learning most other things.

I don't think giving kids free rein with their food, including unlimited junk, will work for all. Some kids will just keep eating junk, even when there is healthier stuff available.

I also personally believe their are other values related to eating food - like being thankful, gracious, environmentally responsible, and even economical. My dds great love is Dragon's Breath Cheese. At $12 a small package, she isn't getting to self regulate with that!


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## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wholewheatchick* 
I was thinking about this some more last night, and perhaps you could frame it so that there isn't "bad" food and "good" food, but instead that all food has consequences, or effects. Some food is more expensive; some food makes you feel good and full of energy, some food drains you of energy, some food makes you gain weight more easily, some food makes you feel full faster, or keep you full longer. Eating too much of any one thing probably isn't good...even if you eat, say, too many blueberries, you'll end up with diarrhea.







So these effects aren't inherently good or bad, they just are facts.

I also wanted to add that I was very, very, very much wanting chocolate a week or so ago. That's all I could think about. So I went and bought a bag of dark chocolate Ghiradelli chocolate chips, and put them in the freezer. I probalby have about 5 a day or so. But now that they are there, and I do mean, almost the moment I put them in the fridge, I stopped wanting them so badly. They still taste good, but simply knowing that if I want them, I can have them, as much as I want, has put them out of my mind. Food and the human brain sure is a complicated relationship!

this is what i am trying to do, they know what food will do what to their body but i think it is normal when the restrictions are lifted to push the boundaries - today has been much better - they have eaten some fruit and veg and home made scones and bread etc I have asked them to think what their bodies need - if they still request junk then i go with it, they have to trust they have control otherwise there is no point to this plan.

I am going to ban 'mindless' scoffing - if you are watching a dvd then you can eat fruit/veg not cake because we all know that we can eat tonnes of rubbish while watching a dvd and not even notice and i want them to notice how their bodies feel when they eat.

I am including budgeting etc in - today they wanted sweets from the shop and i said i had spent all our food money and there was plenty of other food at home so I wouldn't buy any.

I think that maybe the kids that continue eating the junk maybe have an emotional connection to the food that needs to be looked into?

I am still undecided about the sugar thing, i think if we have to make whatever has the sugar in like scones, biscuits, cake etc that will help as they really have to want it to put the effort in! But i do wonder if I had previously restricted cheese and meat if they would have binged on those yesterday rather than the ice cream and cereal which was our restricted foods.


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## wholewheatchick (Mar 1, 2009)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puddleduck* 
this is what i am trying to do, they know what food will do what to their body but i think it is normal when the restrictions are lifted to push the boundaries - today has been much better - they have eaten some fruit and veg and home made scones and bread etc I have asked them to think what their bodies need - if they still request junk then i go with it, they have to trust they have control otherwise there is no point to this plan.

I am going to ban 'mindless' scoffing - if you are watching a dvd then you can eat fruit/veg not cake because we all know that we can eat tonnes of rubbish while watching a dvd and not even notice and i want them to notice how their bodies feel when they eat.

I am including budgeting etc in - today they wanted sweets from the shop and i said i had spent all our food money and there was plenty of other food at home so I wouldn't buy any.

I think that maybe the kids that continue eating the junk maybe have an emotional connection to the food that needs to be looked into?

I am still undecided about the sugar thing, i think if we have to make whatever has the sugar in like scones, biscuits, cake etc that will help as they really have to want it to put the effort in! But i do wonder if I had previously restricted cheese and meat if they would have binged on those yesterday rather than the ice cream and cereal which was our restricted foods.

Hm. You make a very interesting point about the meat/cheese hypothetical situation. I think that going to an excess of something after feeling deprived is probably a normal thing. It seems like they are already settling out a bit, though, which is awesome. Your guidance sounds spot on, too; I should remember that for myself more often! Even when I am home alone to eat, which happens a lot with DH's schedule and I don't work out of the home, I make an effort to not eat while reading, either a book or at the computer, because I get so abosrbed in the reading that I frankly forget whether I am even eating or not! And yes, it def. helps me to keep carbs and sweets under control when I tend to make all of that myself. I still eat them, but I know that when the pumpkin bread is gone, I'm not getting anymore unless I make it!


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## shnitzel (Jan 6, 2010)

I really recommend you read "overcoming overeating" it's all about the food philosophy you are using. I go back and forth in my head over whether sugar is addictive or not, at one point I would have said for sure as I couldn't stop once I started but now that I do not restrict my calorie, fat or sugar intake (but do mostly make healthy food choices that feel good for my body) I can easily turn down dessert or stop halfway through.
Someone very close to me is in Overeaters Anonymous and they fight sugar "addiction" by not allowing any sugar and it really seems to backfire b/c the second someone from OA eats sugar they spiral out of control, and I really do think it is because of the addictive label and how restricted it is.
We also see that a lot of the parents who freak out when we give out candy have kids who can't control themselves when they see sugar and I do wonder if it is connected to the restriction.
On the other hand even a kid who has unlimited control to candy will prefer it to chicken or cheese in most cases. We often see kids in unhealthy families who never get real food and still prefer candy and we rarely see kids from veggie rich homes who won't touch a candy bar, so I am on the fence about this.
I do think part of self regulating is making sure enough calories, fat and protien are eaten.

It sounds like a fun experiment, I love ice cream, so good luck with it, keep us posted on the results!


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## geekgolightly (Apr 21, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Bluegoat* 
If parents are restricting what is in the house, is it really self-regulating?

I tend to think that there are a lot of reasons we tend to choose sweet, fatty foods. Some are cultural, some are based on our own experiences, but some are biological. We crave sweets, salt, and fatty foods.

I think this can be exaggerated by being exposed to those foods a lot - rather than being satisfied we can want them more and more.

As far as self regulation goes, I think small kids need to learn to do it by being given the opportunity to eat a variety of healthy foods when they are hungry, as well as being encouraged to try new things. I think as kids get older, they need to learn how to make good choices even when less healthy foods are on offer, and that happens over time. Like learning most other things.

I don't think giving kids free rein with their food, including unlimited junk, will work for all. Some kids will just keep eating junk, even when there is healthier stuff available.

I also personally believe their are other values related to eating food - like being thankful, gracious, environmentally responsible, and even economical. My dds great love is Dragon's Breath Cheese. At $12 a small package, she isn't getting to self regulate with that!


ITA.

My son is a sweets addict first and food addict second. He takes after me and I don't think it's an emotional issue. Years of blaming my emotional state, I only came to this new idea after cutting out sugar and grains in my diet and my approach to eating _radically_ changed. I believe that some people are biologically driven to store, or have a tendency to dysregulate with food when given unrestricted access and in those cases, it's a bad idea to give unrestricted access.


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## ilovemygirl (Sep 8, 2008)

I haven't read the replies. I'm very nervous about this sort of thing. I know someone IRL who has done this with her LO from the beginning. The child is now 5 and still eats nothing but pop tarts and candy all day and as a result has horrible mood swings, tooth problems and doesn't sleep well.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the occasional treat and I wouldn't suggest anyone force feed a child "healthy" food but I wouldn't give children, especially ones so young the option of eating cereal and ice cream all day.
If the goal is to have healthy eating habits where someone eats three meals and snacks of mostly whole foods and occasionally has a treat then that is what should be modeled day in and day out. I really don't see how allowing binging provides that.


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## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

well day 2 has been a success of sorts - fruit and veg has been eaten along side maybe not so healthy stuff but it has all been their choice. I think my 6 y/o ds really needed the power back in his court he is old enough to think about his food choices and I think he trusts that he can have what he wants - lets see how it goes tomorrow.


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## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ilovemygirl* 
I haven't read the replies. I'm very nervous about this sort of thing. I know someone IRL who has done this with her LO from the beginning. The child is now 5 and still eats nothing but pop tarts and candy all day and as a result has horrible mood swings, tooth problems and doesn't sleep well.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the occasional treat and I wouldn't suggest anyone force feed a child "healthy" food but I wouldn't give children, especially ones so young the option of eating cereal and ice cream all day.
If the goal is to have healthy eating habits where someone eats three meals and snacks of mostly whole foods and occasionally has a treat then that is what should be modeled day in and day out. I really don't see how allowing binging provides that.

i think that's what i am trying to avoid - seeing certain foods as a 'treat' - all food should be the same psychologically - just some is better for your body and your hunger should be your guide. I'm not aiming for 3 meals and snacks, i'm aiming for them to eat when they are hungry, stop when they are full and choose food that their body wants - so if they eat 8 snacks a day and never have a 'proper' meal -then so be it.
The binging is a test, they have to trust i will give them what they want, of course they are going to ask for what they normally can not have - it is a learning experience of how your body feels when you eat like that.
I think if my child wanted to live on pop tarts and candy then i wouldn't have done my job properly educating my child and quite frankly i would have put my foot down way before then and decided that this way of eating did not work. The idea is that DS1 eats healthier and develops healthy food associations not that he becomes a sugar junkie.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puddleduck* 
if they eat 8 snacks a day and never have a 'proper' meal -then so be it.

this just isn't how our family works. Dinner is important for lots of reasons, intake of food is only one of them. It's when we talk as a family about our day, make plans, discuss things. It's also when my kids are presented with new foods and gently encouraged to branch out.

My kids attend school, which has a lunch time.

I also think that our bodies process different foods differently, and that indulging in high carb foods *for many people* causes us to want more high carb foods. There is a lot more going on than simply lifting a ban and therefore wanting what was banned.

I also think that intuitive eating can only happen in conjunction with mindful eating. No eating while reading, watching TV, using the computer, playing, in the car etc. I'm curious how you are approaching "how" your kids eat as well as "what" they eat.

We are a middle path family. Likes and dislikes are respected and there are "treats" in the house. None the less, the kids know what kinds of nutrients are in different foods and are encouraged eat a balanced diet.

I think kids have parents for a reason, and helping them learn to make choices about food that will serve them well is one of those reasons.


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## Llyra (Jan 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Linda on the move* 
this just isn't how our family works. Dinner is important for lots of reasons, intake of food is only one of them. It's when we talk as a family about our day, make plans, discuss things. It's also when my kids are presented with new foods and gently encouraged to branch out.

My kids attend school, which has a lunch time.

I also think that our bodies process different foods differently, and that indulging in high carb foods *for many people* causes us to want more high carb foods. There is a lot more going on than simply lifting a ban and therefore wanting what was banned.

I also think that intuitive eating can only happen in conjunction with mindful eating. No eating while reading, watching TV, using the computer, playing, in the car etc. I'm curious how you are approaching "how" your kids eat as well as "what" they eat.

We are a middle path family. Likes and dislikes are respected and there are "treats" in the house. None the less, the kids know what kinds of nutrients are in different foods and are encouraged eat a balanced diet.

I think kids have parents for a reason, and helping them learn to make choices about food that will serve them well is one of those reasons.









This has been my approach as well. I was allowed to completely self-regulate as a child, with access to sweets any time I wanted them, and I don't think it did me any good. I am not overweight, mostly thanks to the fact that I am afflicted with ulcerative colitis. Whether my disease is the result of years and years of crap eating is of course up for debate-- but I believe it is. I'm taking a more structured approach with my kids, and I'm feeling pretty good about how it's going.


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## velochic (May 13, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puddleduck* 
i think that's what i am trying to avoid - seeing certain foods as a 'treat' - all food should be the same psychologically - just some is better for your body and your hunger should be your guide.

But hunger isn't that cut and dried. Eating also releases hormones that are FEEL GOOD hormones. That's why there are so many problems surrounding food. At the root of this problem is that we have so much abundance in the West.

Psychologically, I sure hope my dd learns that not all food should be treated equally. If psychologically, a cookie is treated the same as cabbage, and a person prefers cookies, they would pick that over cabbage more than they ought to. IMO, it's important to learn that foods that are super, super yummy to our taste buds and release those oh-so-yummy hormones *ARE* a treat.

Self-regulating is about making good conscious decisions. I honestly think that in this society today, there needs to be some parenting around making healthy food decisions because of the abundance we have in the West. It didn't use to be that way in North America and it still isn't that way in most of the world. It used to be food = survival. It's not like that anymore, but the instinct to fill up when you can is still there. Hunger can be your guide to eat, but not WHAT to eat. JMO


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I let my dd self regulate as long as she isn't going overboard on junkfood. We do have family breakfasts and dinners but I don't tell her what to eat or how much to eat, she makes good choices herself. We have always had a stash of sweets around but they are rarely what we go for first.


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## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

well i appreciate everyones replies, this is something that obviously doesn't work for everyone and each family seems to have it's own way of doing things. It is a very complex issue but one I hope to work through as an individual and with my family.

Even though i am not having set meal times as such we do sit down and talk as a family and food is on the table to take if you are hungry, so i don't feel like i'm sacrificing meal times as such.

As for the food as a treat, well we will have to agree to disagree on that one at this current time









This morning DS2 has chosen fruit for breakfast and DS1 has decided he is not hungry yet, so for my family it seems to be working.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puddleduck* 
well i appreciate everyones replies, this is something that obviously doesn't work for everyone and each family seems to have it's own way of doing things. It is a very complex issue but one I hope to work through as an individual and with my family.

Even though i am not having set meal times as such we do sit down and talk as a family and food is on the table to take if you are hungry, so i don't feel like i'm sacrificing meal times as such.

As for the food as a treat, well we will have to agree to disagree on that one at this current time









This morning DS2 has chosen fruit for breakfast and DS1 has decided he is not hungry yet, so for my family it seems to be working.

Sounds like it's working well. The "testing period" didn't seem to last long. My DD isn't big on eating when she first gets up, but usually goes for oatmeal, leftover chicken, meatloaf or some veggie juice when she does want breakfast. We don't use or see food as a treat either. If it's in the house DD can have it. I'm diabetic and don't buy processed sweets because of the effect that stuff has on me. Baking your own pies, cookies, muffins, cheesecake and stuff from scratch takes time and effort so it is a once or twice a month thing. As for binging, DD does it with different things. Except for ice cream when we have it, it's usually tomatoes, strawberries, cherries, or meatloaf and it's even been broccoli. Most of the times her cravings seem to be nutritional. She has protein days or red fruit and veggie days.


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## karanyavel (May 8, 2010)

My daughter is allowed to eat whatever she wants, whenever she wants. She is six years old. And yes, we buy junk food... in fact, she's allowed to choose whatever she likes from the store as long as it isn't crazy expensive. We don't even have "meal times" at all in our house... everyone eats what they want, whenever they want.

We've been doing this since she was old enough to eat solid foods... 5 or 6 months, IIRC.

Why? Well, I haven't read any books on the subject, so our decision was based on how DH and I were raised and how it affected us later.

At my home, there was always a wide variety of food available, from the very healthy to the junk. I was allowed to eat whatever, whenever, however much I pleased. I was of normal weight throughout childhood (parents were obese) and preferred fresh whole fruit to candy, preferred vegetables to Doritos, always preferred lean meats to fatty ones (peeled the skin off of my chicken for example), etc.

I still greatly prefer healthy foods. I am overweight, but I have excellent cholesterol, great blood pressure, great blood sugar, etc. I'm 31.

My husband was raised fairly typically. No snacking within an hour of dinner, dinner included a lean meat, a giant pile of vegetables, and some kind of pasta, bread or rice. As long as he ate all of the vegetables, he could have dessert (ice cream or such), but was strongly discouraged from snacking. He got the occasional soda as a treat but otherwise could only drink water or skim milk.

DH moved in with me directly from his parents' home at 18 years old (I know, I know, but it worked for us). For the first year or so, he ate pretty much nothing but junk... tons of Coca-Cola, M&Ms, Pringles and Pizza Hut Pan Meat Lover's.

He *still* has problems, conflicting feelings about food, a desire to eat junk but feels guilty about it, and a bad case of "vegetable anxiety". If I cook healthy foods for him, he does enjoy them, but cannot stomach plain veggies... his eating habits are gradually improving but he's pretty overweight and has mild high blood pressure, low HDL, very high triglycerides, iffy blood sugar, and he's only 25.

So, what does DD eat? Everything!

She loves raw, plain fruits and vegetables and eats them in large quantities, especially prickly pears, broccoli and spinach. She also loves cooked beans and pretty much any kind of meat.

She drinks a LOT of skim milk, sometimes bottled water (our tap water is horrible), sometimes diet soda, sometimes grapefruit juice.

Grain-wise, she enjoys multi-grain bread, whole wheat bread, rye bread, pumpernickel bread, but not white bread. She eats rice occasionally, and likes pasta w/a touch of olive oil, salt and Parmesan cheese. She also likes lightly sweetened cereals (Corn Pops are her current favorite, she thinks Captain Crunch is way too sweet). And waffles! She loves waffles, haha.

Junk food? Eh, it's nothing special to her. Sometimes she'll eat one of those tiny snack-size bags of corn chips or something. She eats candy in moderation and only about 2-3 times a month. She likes ice cream but usually just eats one of those miniature ice cream cones that have 80 calories and she's done.

Her weight is on the low end of normal. Not much body fat but quite a bit of muscle and she's very tall. We don't require exercise but she chooses to exercise for a solid 2-3 hours every day even though we can't go outside much for most of the year due to extreme heat and UV index. She enjoys aerobic dance, yoga and Tai Chi.

Oh, and she rarely eats meals... she is very much a grazer and probably eats something at least every hour while she's awake. Her favorite food in the whole world is fresh red raspberries. Taken as a whole, her diet is balanced and very good overall. Sure, there are some days she eats ice cream for breakfast, but that's rare.

We do talk about healthy eating quite a bit, but never pass judgment on her if she wants to sit down to a pile of donuts. She is adamant that she wants to remain lean and healthy and makes choices that reflect that at least 90% of the time.

BTW, back in the 1980s, my aunt was concerned about how much candy her kids would eat and that they were sneaking candy. Her children's pediatrician told her to put a big bowl of candy on the counter and let them have at it. They got bored of candy within a few weeks and rarely ate it afterwards.

Works for us, but probably not for everyone. I *do* think it is worth a try, but if your kids have had a restricted diet for years, I'd give them at least six months to adapt before I'd throw in the towel on the idea.

--K


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

I would only do that if I had only healthy offerings at home.

The evolutionary drive to stock up on sugar until passing out is too strong for most people.

That said, I've thought about the candy bowl because my daughter is a sweets fiend and it's not healthy and obviously related to the fact that although we don't have any at home, she sees it all the time. That's not healthy, either. I'm torn and I feel like my situation sucks. I would let them have all candy offered to them IF it wasn't happening five times a day (which it sometimes is).

And I know a lot of families that don't regulate snacks or healthy foods and their kids are pretty overweight--to the point that they don't enjoy running and playing tag at the playground







-- and they don't eat veggies at all.

Glad it's working out for you.


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## karanyavel (May 8, 2010)

Curiously, our biggest problem with self-regulating food is that my DD sometimes slips below a normal weight. Probably because we don't have meals and at times she just forgets to eat or eats large amounts of very low calorie foods (e.g., raw spinach leaves, raw broccoli).

So we do offer some guidance especially when this happens. I weigh her and measure her height occasionally (once every few months, I guess). When she's below 5th percentile for BMI for her age, we talk about it gently and I suggest she try to eat a bit more of the higher calorie foods she enjoys, like cottage cheese or pasta with a bit of olive oil and Parmesan. I would have the same talk with her if she was becoming overweight, but instead encourage some lower calorie/higher fiber foods. Right now she's at 24th percentile for BMI for age so she's definitely within the normal range.

Part of the reason this works may be that she is homeschooled and has less interaction with peers than the average child, although she is far from isolated. We also don't have a TV so she's had very little exposure to advertisements for junk.

A few days ago, she bought a little bag of M&Ms at the gas station and ate about four of them before passing them to her dad to finish. "Dad will eat anything! He's like a human garbage can!" she says.. LOL. We do talk about how her dad doesn't eat very healthy but is working on it.

I've noticed a common theme in this thread is sugar, which is interesting to me. DH's family have a bizarre and dysfunctional relationship with sugar, I think. They eat very low calorie, extremely healthy dinners, then follow up with HUGE portions of ice cream, cake, etc. It always struck me as very odd. The majority of people I know are sugar fiends, with the exception of myself and my DD.

DD eats sugar in moderation... I pretty much don't eat sugar at all. I just don't like sweets other than fresh fruit and generally prefer less-sweet fruits (raw cranberries and unsweetened grapefruit come to mind). Don't know if this has anything to do with self-regulation or some people are just naturally great lovers of sweets.

--K


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## Bluegoat (Nov 30, 2008)

I do have to say I'm not a big fan of totally restricting sweets and such. The kids I've known on such a diet start to get kind of weird about sweets as well. I used to nanny for a kid whose friend was fed this way, and I had to watch him like a hawk because he would sneak into cupboards to find sweets. My sister's friend is similar - sweets were hugely restricted, and now she hides bags of them around.


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## ChetMC (Aug 27, 2005)

So far, we've been okay with self regulation up to age three or so. After that we've had some particular problems that I felt needed to be addressed to a certain degree.

Our oldest would eat nothing but carbohydrates if left to her own devices. Once, during an extended visit with my in-laws, they let her eat what whatever she wanted (as grandparents often do) and after five days MIL casually mentions to DH that DD hasn't had any protein since she arrived. At home, I try hard to have carbs and fat/protein combined in some way... so you can't eat plain bread and dry cereal all day long. When you have bread it has to have butter, peanut butter, cheese, or something on it that is not just carbs. Cereal usually has milk on it, is mixed with nuts and raisins as a snack, etc.

Our second DD is quite thin (5 years, 37lbs, 44 inches), and she has a snacking problem. She will use snacks to take the edge off being hungry, but never really eat. I recognize this behaviour as I do it too. She benefits from longer stretches between eating. DD is not the carbohydrate junkie that her sister is, and she will choose more fruit and veggies on her own, but she also doesn't eat a lot of foods with protein or fat in them.

I do consciously try to have our kids get five servings of fruit or vegetable a day.

I admit too that we've gotten less flexible partly from having four kids. If four kids get short order snacks and meals all day I don't leave the kitchen.

To me, pure self regulation works in a vacuum. In reality, you need to be mindful of external factors.... eating when bored, failing to eat because you're distracted, taking on habits and tastes of those around you (DH and I like a number of foods that aren't actually good, but we grew up with them and formed a taste for them), etc.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I let my dd self regulate, but I only keep foods around that I'm comfortable with her eating as much as she wants. And we talk about how food is fuel for the body and why some foods are healthier than others, and what types of foods and variety we need to remain healthy. I think children have an instinctive desire for sweet things that would make it difficult for them to choose to eat a healthy diet if all foods were treated equally. But I'm glad it seems to be working so far for the OP.


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## gcgirl (Apr 3, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ann_of_loxley* 
We do this - we just don't buy the rubbish. If it isn't in our house - who is gonna eat it?

This is really the key, IMO. Kids do a bang-up job of self-regulating WHEN THEIR ONLY OPTIONS ARE HEALTHFUL.


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## amyjeans (Jul 27, 2004)

I agree with the junk thing.
We personally are Paleo- only eat meat, fruit, veggies, nuts and seeds.
So we have a basket of fruit always available, a tub of mixed nuts, and a basket of raw cut veggies in the fridge. The kids don't have to ask, they can pick and choose their snack, anytime. I still do the 4 sit down meals a day, and they really don't over eat. Plus I am not a member of the clean plate club either. So I don't load their plates. But they can always have seconds.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
The evolutionary drive to stock up on sugar until passing out is too strong for most people.

We do have a strong evolutionary drive to eat sweet stuff. Most natural foods that taste really sweet, berries and fruit, take a lot of calories to pick. So eating berries that you've picked yourself wouldn't make you overweight. From an evolutionary point of view sweet things are safe to eat and bitter ones sometimes aren't, so of course we like to eat sweet stuff. Fruits and berries are loaded with antioxidants and vitamins especially C and A. Blackberries even have a decent fiber and protein content.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

But if you eat berries by the fistful, which even in berriful seasons is not possible, you can have pretty negative side-effects.

And I'm talking about the crap my husband brings in, of course. Cookies, candy, whatever he gets for free with his meals with the military, he saves them and brings them home as treats.


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## accountclosed2 (May 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puddleduck* 
*AislinCarys* Thanks for your reply. Do you think you're food issues may have stemmed from your mother being obsessive with food? Maybe you had free access to all foods but little knowledge to go with it?

No. I think my food issues stemmed from several things:

- A love for sweet things from as early as I can remember (I would have eaten only sweet stuff if I could as a child, possibly with the addition of butter)

- A LOT of knowledge about healthy food (from my mother, and later from school), and a strong guilt about only wanting the other, not healthy stuff, as well as a disappointment in my inability to be strong and control my intake (self control was expected from my parents, and they got disappointed in my to). My sister on the other hand was a master of self control, and showed it from a very early age, which probably was the beginning of her food issues.

Reading the replies, I'd like to say this about sugar. I have cut sugar (all sugars, with the exception of milk or yoghurt, fruit - though not added fructose for example - and occasional honey) out of my diet twice, and it was HARD! It took a few months for the cravings and the feeling of deprivation, the WANT to disappear.

However, after that time, I'd notice that my taste buds had changed, and other foods taste better than they used to. Or really, I just enjoy food, and don't think much about it, until I decide to try a piece of something sweet - very occasionally, like twice in the past 5 months - and it just doesn't taste very nice, and I go away thinking " I really don't like gelato" (once my favourite food).

And I actually LIKE a lot of foods now, like real dinner foods, while in the past I liked very few meals - my favourite dinner was pasta with ketchup and butter. I sort of liked things like pizza, but I certainly wasn't very excited by it. And I quite liked very spicy food. (That said, I knew enough about food, especially as an adult, to eat healthy meals, despite not liking them much, I just snacked on all the stuff I liked around meals). Nowadays I get excited by yummy lentil soup, love falafel, and adore homemade pizza. I think fruit tastes more than it used to, and that raw veges are delicious (I used to eat them in the past too - because they were healthy, but I found them bland and boring).

And suddenly it wasn't difficult to lose weight, it was easy. Sugar certainly makes me eat more, more in general, I used to snack all the time. Off sugar the cravings, and constant hunger, disappeared. And I can eat what I want whenever I want it (I eat quite a high-fat diet, I think), without gaining weight. Such a novelty! But I don't eat anywhere near as much food as I used to.

My DD is 2 1/2 and hasn't had sugar yet. She loves all sorts of flavours, but her favourite foods are: thick natural unsweetened yoghurt, pumpkin seeds, apples, persimmons, red lentils, kumara (NZ sweet potato, which has quite a strong flavour, which took me quite a long time to get used too), peanutbutter, hummus and fish. She'll eat bread, crackers, rolls, but isn't very interested, she's more likely to lick off the pnb or hummus. Of what she does eat, however, she is welcome to choose what and when (except for 10 min before dinner is served, and I might ranson things that are hard or very expensive to get, like dried persimmon, because if she finishes the packet in one go, it might be weeks before we can get another, and she'll want it!)

(And so far she doesn't feel deprived. With allergies in the family we eat our own food, and she hasn't yet asked for what other children eat, she does comment on what she thinks they are eating, and what she eats, quite happily.)


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## sweetpeppers (Dec 19, 2007)

I read everyone's posts, and I just love this discussion. I hesitate to add my two cents, because I'm not even sure what I think. But I can offer my observations of my son and the various kids that I have babysat for.

I let my son eat whatever he wants, whenever he wants. I've been doing this with him since he started eating. But I never gave him candy or white bread or other junky foods until he recognized other people eating them and wanted some. So when we have ice cream in the house, sometimes he eats it for breakfast. But we've never lived in a house where there was an unlimited supply of junk food. And most of the people in the house eat very healthily. I believe that the natural inclination of children is to eat what the adults are eating, because that is how they know what is good to eat. So since my son grew up with watching myself, my parents, and even my brothers, to a less healthy extent, eating and enjoying fruit, vegetables, hummus, whole grain bread, etc. he wants to eat what other people are eating. But he also likes to eat ice cream, cookies, candy, white rolls, etc. So he might sit down with a white sandwich roll for dinner, but end up eating a raw fruit and greens soup, and "stealing" the crunchy pieces of lettuce and the grapes out of my salad. Now that we don't live with my parent's anymore, he snacks less, I've noticed, because I don't really buy snack foods (too pricey for being that unhealthy). So we generally eat three meals a day together, and he'll have some applesauce or a roll or a banana or something for a snack. I noticed that I eat differently when I am not at my parents house as well. At my parent's house, I am a tortilla chip addict. I will eat Tostitos, black beans, and tomatoes and hot peppers every single day in addition to three other meals. But when I live elsewhere, I don't feel the drive to eat chips every day. I've had a bag of tostitos for a week, and it's only half gone, and my son ate most of that. (I would also eat a half a bag at a time). I'm not sure what that means, but it's interesting.

Okay, one family of kids that I babysat for and lived with could eat whatever they wanted, but the house wasn't brimming with packaged food all the time. My mother would buy some Oreos or marshmellows at the store, and then that would be it. They ate a lot of cereal (which they always had). Sometimes they ate fruit, occasionally they would eat a vegetable, but mostly they ate a fairly bland "kids" diet-cereal, bread, chicken fingers, snacks like crackers and chips, cheese and some sort of vegetable, meat, starch dinner. None of them were overweight, but none of them ate a high nutrient diet either. The mother was a sensible, mostly whole foods eater, but she didn't eat much, and she didn't seem to have much of a teaching role as far as what the kids ate.

Another family I babysat for had a house full of packaged food. The pantry was literally stuffed with cookies, crackers, chips, doodles, and every kind of thing you could imagine. The mother and father were both overweight with health problems and ate very unhealthily. Mostly the kids ate junk all the time. sometimes they'd eat an apple. But they didn't like anything homemade. Every now and then the mother would try to regulate the pantry, but seriously, how do you restrict access to a full grocery store in your house without padlocks? None of these kids were overweight, but the three of them all ate a diet of predominately junk food.

The third family was kind of in the middle. They didn't keep a lot of cookies in the house, but there wasn't much healthy food either.

Do I have a point? I don't know. The common thread running though them is that there was no one in the houses that was knowledgable about what different foods do to your body. I think a key thing in getting kids to eat healthy is giving them the knowledge they need to make real choices. But how to do that without judging what they eat? I think a good way is to just not have junk food in the house. Don't make peanut butter and jelly and macaroni and cheese the staples of your child's diet. Cook (or not) from real food.

It seems to be a pretty common assumption that kids can eat whatever they want with no consequences, but just because those kids I babysat for weren't overweight or sickly, doesn't mean that there will not be repercussions down the road. I wonder about people saying there is no bad or good foods. Bad foods are foods that make you sick, tired and weak. Good foods nourish your body. Eating bad foods doesn't make you a bad person, it just makes you sick. And isn't my job as a mother to keep my son from getting sick? After all, he can't take care of himself. I have to take care of him when he's sick.

Everybody makes great points, and it is hard to say who is "right." I think if you have food in the house, the kids should be allowed to eat it when they want to (making sure everyone gets some of it of course). If you don't want your kids to eat junk food, don't bring it in your house (or only bring it in occasionally). If you want to always have sweets or something in the house, then you should pair that with adequate nutritional background and modelling.

It's a hard thing to figure out. I lean more towards the side of only keeping healthier foods in the house. That's what my parent's did. If we wanted candy or cookies or something, we had to walk to the farm market a mile away, ride our bikes 3 miles to the grocery store, or (since we were good at cost comparisons) ride 45 minutes to the Walmart. This is when we were older of course. When we were younger, we just ate what was available. And my mom often remarks that the other kids in the church's homeschooling group were always coming down with something, but we were never sick. And food isn't just about healthy or not, it's about how much fuel it uses to be produced, the ethics of the manufacturers, the conditions of the farmers, the freshness and quality of the ingredients or produce. I buy food based on all these factors, and I don't want to spend my food dollars to support something I don't believe in just because my son would rather have ice cream for dinner tonight than broccoli (though he loves broccoli and asks for that as well).

Okay, I'm going to shut up and go to bed. Much food for thought tonight.


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## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

Interesting to hear from the parents who have been letting their dc eat this way for a while. I think it should work if the parents eat healthily and the cupboards are not filled with junk.

I am letting them eat what they want but i am strewing the house with healthy foods - they have just finished eating pineapple and have baked some biscuits. DS1 is not eating as much fruit and veg as he did before but i hope that swings back over the next few weeks. I am asking them what they want to eat and giving them healthy suggestions but if they ask for something less healthy i give them the information (trying not to guilt them out of it) and let them make the choices.

I have been trying to eat like this myself, letting myself eat 'banned' foods like cheese and meat. I am realising i am just as likely to binge on these foods as i am sugary foods. I actually prefer fruit to chocolate but will choose chocolate or biscuits if i am tired. I am eating way less and choosing foods that are good for me rather than diet foods or the before diet stuff chocolate in my face day.

We are all learning a lot from the experience.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:

I think it should work if the parents eat healthily and the cupboards are not filled with junk.
***AND*** the child is not regularly interacting with people who are constantly feeding their own children junk food, or passing out treats. I dare you to pass a week in Europe with this method and not have the child eating candy all day. And no, not all children in Europe are thin. Obesity is actually a huge problem here in Germany. I would say I see as many heavily overweight children in German areas as on the American posts. I'm sure it's all the candy.


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## Shannie77 (Jan 16, 2007)

We let our 3 year old eat pretty much what she wants when she wants. However we don't keep any "junk" food in the house, so her only options are healthy things. One day she basically just ate fruit and the next day she ate a ton of cheese. Overall her diet is pretty balanced. I do make suggestions though... for example if she hasn't had a lot of fruit I might say "would you like some strawberries" etc. But I honour her answer.

She basically eats three meals a day but sometimes she has 2 mini dinners, one at 4ish and one around 8, so she ends up not eating much at dinner. We are fine with that.

There are lots of time she wants something and we simply don't have it. She is allowed treats but it is usually something we have when we are at family parties or sometimes if we are out shopping we might get something we don't keep in the house. Personally I don't believe in keeping any junky stuff in the house. If it is here I want to eat it myself, and I know the temptation would be too much for my DD too. If I could just limit myself to one cookie every few days it would be fine... but that is not going to happen with an open bag of cookies calling my name!









So far I am happy with our approach. I was brought up with a TON of food battles - I was really picky and my mom worried I wasn't eating a well balanced diet. I did end with an eating disorder that lasted over 10 years. Not sure if it was from my families approach to food, or ballet training or a combo... From what I have read and my experiences, keeping power struggles out of eating is my goal.


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## DariusMom (May 29, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *EdnaMarie* 
***AND*** the child is not regularly interacting with people who are constantly feeding their own children junk food, or passing out treats. I dare you to pass a week in Europe with this method and not have the child eating candy all day. And no, not all children in Europe are thin. Obesity is actually a huge problem here in Germany. I would say I see as many heavily overweight children in German areas as on the American posts. I'm sure it's all the candy.

I live in Holland and am pretty amazed by the amount of candy given out. There actually seems to be *less* awareness about sweets than in the US!
Childhood obesity is a growing problem here, too, though certainly not at the level it is in the US. That's probably because kids here pretty much *have to* bike and walk to school and around town plus it's considered normal for kids to play outside a lot, so I think it's just that kids are getting more exercise rather than that they are eating better.


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## puddleduck (Jan 3, 2005)

Last night DS1 said to me ' mummy i want you to choose my food for me otherwise i'm going to just eat sugary stuff'. So this morning he wanted cereal and i pointed out that he had a cold and fruit would be a better way to start the day (we have no milk either).

DH thinks we should carry on as DS1 is just getting used to the idea and it will take him a while to trust his own instincts (especially if i keep on harping on about how sugar is no good for his body). Part of me agrees but the other part wants to limit the less healthy stuff because i need to be in control









I guess i'm going to take each day at a time and see how it goes.


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## EdnaMarie (Sep 9, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DariusMom* 
I live in Holland and am pretty amazed by the amount of candy given out. There actually seems to be *less* awareness about sweets than in the US!
Childhood obesity is a growing problem here, too, though certainly not at the level it is in the US. That's probably because kids here pretty much *have to* bike and walk to school and around town plus it's considered normal for kids to play outside a lot, so I think it's just that kids are getting more exercise rather than that they are eating better.

I can only hope that as they get older, they just don't have as much time for sweets since they're outdoors more?

Because exercise really doesn't burn that many extra calories. If you eat just one extra Snickers, you have to bike for like, two hours to burn that off if you are a small person. Two hours straight.

I'm not knocking exercise but really, it's calories in minus calories out. And candy is just so calorific that it's hard to make up.

I mean let's take an average ten-year-old boy, 70 lbs, for an hour (this would mean of biking time, does not include stopping to chat):

Bicycling: 12-13.9 mph, leisure, moderate effort 254.5

That's one Snickers bar. Not to mention that he'd burn some of those calories just sitting there. That's not "extra" calories, that's total calories burned. Just sitting there will burn around 40 calories, so really one hour is less than a candy bar.

So you can pretty much say that for every 100 calories you eat "over" what you need (much easier to do when it's packaged), you can count on 30 minutes of fairly vigorous exercise.

Obviously kids are growing and need to eat! I would not suggest counting calories with a child by any means. BUT I just wanted to highlight that no amount of exercise is going to make up for really bad eating habits and a lot of snacking on junk. You're still going to put on weight, ounce by ounce.


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## Linda on the move (Jun 15, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *puddleduck* 
Last night DS1 said to me ' mummy i want you to choose my food for me otherwise i'm going to just eat sugary stuff'. So this morning he wanted cereal and i pointed out that he had a cold and fruit would be a better way to start the day (we have no milk either).

I think this is what having regular meals and snacks is about -- the parent taking responsibility for presenting the child with variety and balance. Making a simple breakfast and setting it on the table sets the child up to make good choices.

Controlling food is totally different. That's when parents get hung up on whether or not the kid eats the breakfast, exactly how many bits of breakfast are eaten, refuses to let the child get something else, etc.

I think it is VERY possible to help our kids make good choices without being the least bit controlling.


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