# stood my ground with DH re: disciplinging DD



## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

nm


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## lexapurple (Dec 24, 2006)

I am sorry if I misunderstand your situation but I do not see restraining a child's hand if he/she continues to do something that you asked them to stop doing as being something "hurtful" or mean. I was not there but to me it seems like it was apropriate response. Pinching, slapping or twisting to cause pain as means to stop the behavior are not Ok of course.

But if I did not want my DD to touch something and she was not listening to me and continued, I would pull her her hand away from that object and redirect her to something else. Even if you husband will tell you DD to go to time out and she doesn't listen and doesn't go there, he will have to assert his words with physical action and take her there. I do not see much difference in holding child hand to stop them from touching something or somebody and lifting them and moving them to different area.

And to answer you question, I think that you should have dealt with it in private and not in front of your children unless he was slapping or otherwise hurting her. It is not a good example for children and teaches them that there is a power split between parents and they can use it agains both of you.

I understand how upsetting it is to mother to see her child cry when someone else disciplines them but are you sure she started crying because she was phisicaly hurt and not because she was upset that she was not able to continue doing what she wanted? Only reason I ask is because my DD often gets upset when we enforce rules and what we tell her when it goes against what she thinks or when she feels that what we did was unfair.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

I'm with the previous poster. I don't see that anything really wrong happened here with your DH, except for one thing.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma*
> 
> we had just walked in the door, DD and i. she's 4.5 yo. DH had been home with sleeping DS (16 mo), while i was out taking DD to her "cooking" class, and walking the dogs. we walked in, DD went in the living room to see her brother and her dad, and i quick did a couple things including taking off my coat and boots and washing my hands. in this short time, i guess DD was "pulling" on her brother (she never ever purposely hurts him, but she may well have been trying to hold him) and DH was telling her not to do it. DH frequently gets into these type of power struggles with DD.
> 
> ...


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## Agatha_Ann (Apr 5, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anastasiya*
> 
> I'm with the previous poster. I don't see that anything really wrong happened here with your DH, except for one thing.
> 
> ...


This. Exactly.


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## chiefmir (Apr 16, 2010)

I'm sorry-- I just don't get it either. I don't think your DH did anything wrong with your DD, except his comment about "showing her the difference"-- and to be fair, if I'm reading your post correctly, he did that after you intervened and "corrected" his methods of interacting with your DD in front of her... so he may have been feeling pretty frustrated and impotent at that point, and spoken out of those feelings.

We, also, are a fairly hands-off/use words family- and this has worked so far because our 5.5 year old DD and our 2 year old DD (the baby is too young to count in this!) are very, very verbal. However, we have a very, very low threshold for letting the children hurt or possibly hurt eachother. or even touch each others bodies in ways that the one being touched is not OK with. If your DD is allowed to hold, hug, grab, pull her DS even when told to stop, even when he doesn't like it, what message does that give BOTH of them? In our house, that was a BIG no-no beginning when DD2 was younger, for the following reasons. First, your DD is the CHILD, and may not have a sense of how what she is doing, even if it is not intended to be harmful, may be. Maybe she is hugging, holding, pullng on DS to be affectionate and playful (albeit a but unintentionally rough) but your DH, sitting on the couch, can see that DS is about to lose his balance and fall into the edge of the table. He should be able to know that if he tells/yells etc for DD to STOP, she will listen. Why does she get to ignore him? At what point of possible "danger" would you let DH move her arms off DS? Second, and also very important to me (having 3 daughters, this has been on my mind) is that we want our girs to learn early and well that THEY are in charge of who touches their body... how and when. When my DD1 randomly sneak-hugs and kisses DD2 (who looks like a walking cabbage patch kid and is VERY hard to not grab and kiss, believe me) it is about 50/50 whether DD2 will be thrilled and join in, or scream and tell her to let go and stop hugging. We've been telling DD1 that everyone is in charge of their own body, and of who touches it. That people are not allowed to hold or touch each other if it isn't wanted. (obviously, as she is getting older now, we've further explained this to her... like sometimes there are medical things that HAVE to be done by a parent or a doctor, but that we usually know this ahead of time and can explain it to her and talk about it). I think this is a very important lesson to teach our kids. Your DD is being allowed to grab, hold, hug etc her DS because you percieve her intentions as benign.... but that may not be his experience of it. I think this is very different from telling an older child that she/he is NOT allowed to keep grabbing/touching/holding a sibling when it is clear that the touching is not welcome. and that if they don't stop, a parent will move their arms away.

just my .02....


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Children learn how to behave by watching our behavior. We shouldn't do anything to them in our interactions that we don't want them doing. Someone pulling my DDs arm so that she was shrieking hysterically is not appropriate at all. We do hold DDs hand when we are in a parking lot, crossing an road or walking right next to a road. If she let go when she was younger we would grab her hand or arm. It was a safety measure we used when was smaller and might run into the street. That being said pulling on someones arm as a type of discipline and especially threatening to "really hurt" is completely inappropriate. Gently picking her up and saying "You need to play more gently with your brother" would have been ok if your DH really felt he needed to intervene.


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## Anastasiya (Jun 13, 2006)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssh*
> 
> Children learn how to behave by watching our behavior. We shouldn't do anything to them in our interactions that we don't want them doing. Someone pulling my DDs arm so that she was shrieking hysterically is not appropriate at all. We do hold DDs hand when we are in a parking lot, crossing an road or walking right next to a road. If she let go when she was younger we would grab her hand or arm. It was a safety measure we used when was smaller and might run into the street. That being said pulling on someones arm as a type of discipline and especially threatening to "really hurt" is completely inappropriate. Gently picking her up and saying "You need to play more gently with your brother" would have been ok if your DH really felt he needed to intervene.


"We shouldn't do anything to them in our interactions that we don't want them doing."

This makes no sense to me, personally. They're kids. There are tons of things I do, as a parent, that they are not allowed to do to each other.

And it didn't sound like pulling on her arm was discipline, but a physical way of deterring a refusing-to-listen child from tugging on her brother.

I still agree with the odd "want me to really hurt her?" comment. That bothered me.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssh*
> 
> Children learn how to behave by watching our behavior. We shouldn't do anything to them in our interactions that we don't want them doing. *Someone pulling my DDs arm so that she was shrieking hysterically is not appropriate at all.* We do hold DDs hand when we are in a parking lot, crossing an road or walking right next to a road. If she let go when she was younger we would grab her hand or arm. It was a safety measure we used when was smaller and might run into the street. That being said pulling on someones arm as a type of discipline and especially threatening to "really hurt" is completely inappropriate. Gently picking her up and saying "You need to play more gently with your brother" would have been ok if your DH really felt he needed to intervene.


At 4.5, I would bet a child can scream hysterically over almost anything. My first thought was that her DH was trying to gently re-direct, and then OP's dd started resisting and screaming hysterically - which is what my 2yo does sometimes when I try to re-direct him. His reaction to being re-directed certainly doesn't mean I should just let him do whatever he wants. Or does it?


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## babydanielsmom (Jan 18, 2008)

I totally agree with ALL the PPs. I see nothing wrong with what your Dh did. As for the one weid "really hurt her" thing he said...could he have just been trying to get her attention/compliance and just didn't know what else to do (like an empty threat). BTW, I do agree that parents for the most part need to be a "united front" in front of their kids....is there any reason why you couldn't have waited to discuss the whole issue with your Dh when your Lo's were in bed? That way they were not in the middle of it


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

What do you think was happening OP, between your dh and dd when you walked in? Holding her arm to prevent her from pulling on her brother is something I would do myself if she didn't stop right away when I asked her to, as I would physically re-direct either of my kids if they were hurting/really bothering another kid and wouldn't stop when I asked. However, from the way you describe it, I wonder if you think that he was being overly rough and actually hurting her? I admit that is a possibility, and it is also possible that she was screaming bloody murder because she was a stymied 4yo and that's what they do. I don't think it's really possible to expect him to deal with the kids without ever having to physically separate them. In fact that's exactly what he'd be doing if, in the same situation as described in your OP, he picked her up and put her in time-out. I also don't think it's possible to expect him to never cause your dd to freak out/tantrum/scream at him, because, well, at some point all kids will do that, yk? What I do think you have every right to expect is that he would never knowingly hurt either of your kids, that, even if he's fuming mad, he will always retain control of his actions and will never let himself be just "a bit" rougher than he really needed to be.

I think you need to revisit the scene in your mind and really ask yourself what was going on? Was he a frustrated dad who was holding his dd's arm to stop her from pulling on her brother (and she reacted in an age-appropriate screaming fit), or was he an out-of-control dad who let his anger at his dd's actions get the best of him and yanked and pulled her arm to punish her. If you come to the realization that it was the former then I think you need to just let it go (but by all means start some communication about discipline going!). If it was the latter then, IMO, this is a "hill to die on" and you did the right thing by stopping him in the moment.


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## swd12422 (Nov 9, 2007)

I am going to jump in here and say that my first reaction was to agree with the OP. We have very similar issues in our house, with the exception being that I'm not always as gentle as the OP is insisting her DH be. So on top of all that, I'm a hypocrite (and trying to be more gentle at the same time).

I do see where picking her up and saying, "You need to be more gentle with your brother" is a preferred method of discipline. I also see what other PPs are saying about sometimes needing physical intervention.

OP, just how rough is your DH with DD? Touching a child's hand gently and moving it away is NOT the same as the way my DH (and sometimes I) yank DS away from the dog. Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, when we fear the dog might get upset with DS or when we are frustrated after an entire day of him not listening/being 3/being unable to control his impulses (and we frequently forget that's what it is most of the time), we are not as gentle as we could be. Is that what you're talking about, or are you completely against any moving of your DD's hand away? B/c I do see what PPs mean about it not being necessarily the best thing to insist your DH be the only one to change his ways. That just wouldn't fly at my house, and think about if DH said that to you... OTOH, if you feel it is more than just a little "ungentle" pushing away and it is roughly yanking or pushing her in a way that is bordering on angry or violent, that's another story.


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## mamazee (Jan 5, 2003)

I guess I can't get a picture in my head of what was happening. If he was gently physically redirecting her, or gently holding her arm to keep her from doing something she shouldn't do, that seems perfectly fine and I don't see a reason for intervention. But if he was like yanking on her arm harshly or something, then yes I would get upset if my dh did that and I would intervene. But gentle physical intervention can be an effective way to handle situations, and IMO is probably more effective and gentle than forcing a child to stay restrained in time out if you know that will require a physical battle, which it sounds like your husband thought would happen. If it was done gently, a lot of children actually respond much much better to physical redirection than to discussions.

Unless there was something physically hurtful going on, I'd talk to my dh about discipline issues in private.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssh*
> 
> Children learn how to behave by watching our behavior. We shouldn't do anything to them in our interactions that we don't want them doing. Someone pulling my DDs arm so that she was shrieking hysterically is not appropriate at all. We do hold DDs hand when we are in a parking lot, crossing an road or walking right next to a road. If she let go when she was younger we would grab her hand or arm. It was a safety measure we used when was smaller and might run into the street. That being said pulling on someones arm as a type of discipline and especially threatening to "really hurt" is completely inappropriate. Gently picking her up and saying "You need to play more gently with your brother" would have been ok if your DH really felt he needed to intervene.


I think what the dad did was fine and that he was right about the united front in this instance (except his actually saying he would show the child the difference between what hurts and what doesn't). At that age my dd was very melodramatic and very loud about saying it hurt when I held her hand even when it really didn't hurt at all, she also whined about it hurting one time when I held her coat sleeve very lightly. She knew that saying she was hurt would get her a lot of attention and I got many dirty looks in the store when I was gently guiding her away from something while she was loudly complaining that it hurt to try to get me to stop making her stop doing something she really wanted to do. I can understand why this girls dad would say he would show her the difference, it is very frustrating when a child is being melodramatic about something that really can't hurt them. I never personally allowed those words to come out of my mouth but there were many times when I felt like saying them and a few when I felt like following through with them also. OP I think you owe him an apology in front of the kids.


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## averlee (Apr 10, 2009)

My totally honest and gut reaction: I would have shrieked "Get your hands off my baby!" and proceeded to freak out royally. There is not going to be any "united front" in my home that involves strong-arming little children. If my husband threatened to "really hurt" my child I would, um, take that pretty personally. Like I'd consider getting a restraining order and file for divorce immediately.

If you had not intervened, you'd have shown your daughter not only that she should expect her own father, and someday her own husband, to yank on her and threaten to cause her real harm, but that also you approve and agree.

I see your options being: 1) He could agree to stop grabbing and threatening to harm your children. 2) You could leave him. 3) You could wait until she really pushes his buttons and he beats her up.


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## robinia (Jul 27, 2009)

It's interesting, I also read the OP very differently from some of the PPs. Perhaps it depends on your personal experience, but I was picturing a grown man pulling a little girl's arm hard enough to hurt her and then threatening to hurt her more, and was surprised that others pictured a more benign scene. For me this is not a situation that calls for a united front. The OP's steps, of thinking it through, suggesting time out and so on, seem to me to be very reasonable. I think that time out can be an excellent way to allow an angry parent to feel like they are doing something without physically hurting a child - it can be a tool for managing a parent's anger even if it is not ideal in other ways.

I don't think you should be deterred, OP, from acting in the moment to let your children know that violence is not acceptable - whether it's violence by them or violence towards them.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *averlee*
> If you had not intervened, you'd have shown your daughter not only that she should expect her own father, *and someday her own husband*, to yank on her and threaten to cause her real harm, but that also you approve and agree.


umm....what? I was a child in the early 70s, and like every other kid I knew, I got spanked (mostly by my mom, not my dad, I'll admit). That in no way, shape or form ever suggested to me that my future husband was going to have the right to spank me or otherwise physically hurt me. This seems like a huge leap.

I'd have to have seen the interaction between OP's dh and her dd myself to really say how I'd handle it. I don't even blink an eye if dh grabs ds2 and ds2 screams hysterically, cries, etc. - it means ds2 isn't being allowed to do what he wants to do, and that's all it means. If he screams "you're hurting me, daddy", that means the same thing (dh can tell if he did grab a little too hard in frustration or something and will immediately let go, so screams of "you're hurting me" mean "this is the only thing I can think of that might get you to let go of me so that I can do whatever it is that you're stopping me from doing"). In our case, I wouldn't have thought anything of the scenario in the OP, except that ds2 was being too rough with his younger sibling. Some kids really freak out.

I mean...ssh said:

Quote:


> Someone pulling my DDs arm so that she was shrieking hysterically is not appropriate at all. We do hold DDs hand when we are in a parking lot, crossing an road or walking right next to a road. If she let go when she was younger we would grab her hand or arm.


With ds2 - and even dd1, to some extent - these are the same thing. If one of them let go of us or tried to cross a road or something, and we grabbed him, he'd scream bloody blue murder, and I'd get those "you horrible mother - why are you torturing that poor child?" look from passers-by. A child being hysterical doesn't necessarily mean the adult in question is acting inappropriately.

The comment about really hurting her would bother me a lot...but I've said things quite similar to ds2, in moments of extreme frustration (usually when he's done something like hit his baby sister, or whack his older sister over the head with a wooden toy and is trying to divert attention by screaming "you're hurting me"). I didn't mean it, and he and I sorted things out...but it also wasn't quite what it would have sounded like to someone else.

ETA: I don't know what really happened. Maybe the OP does. But, she did say "I guess" twice, and that her dh "seems to like" to assert himself physically. It sounds as though there may well be some conclusion jumping going on here (and maybe not - I wasn't there, obviously). I will say that I'm not seeing anything in her OP that indicates a likelihood of her dh beating up her dd, and I read the "I should really hurt her" comment quite differently than a couple of the pps.


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robinia*
> 
> I don't think you should be deterred, OP, from acting in the moment to let your children know that violence is not acceptable - whether it's violence by them or violence towards them.


This is a very important point.


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## Dandelionkid (Mar 6, 2007)

I understand the OP. I do this with my dh. He is a lot louder than me and his presence in the room can be very uncomfortable to my sensitive nature when he is angry. I have learned to back-off a lot from stuff that really bothers me like yelling and physical re-direction and he in turn, has developed a more gentle approach, maybe because he feels he has some power back and autonomy to act.

On the other hand, there are still times when he hurts the kids, like slapping a hand or pushing to get them to move, and each and every-time I let him know in front of the kids that this is not acceptable. If the kids come crying to me after being physically mishandled I validate their feelings and let them know that hitting/pushing is not ok. Half the time he knows he crossed the line and apologizes to the kids. He struggles with his temper but he is a really good dad and I am glad to see him finally getting into the groove with parenting in the past couple years. He really needed me to back off of the criticism and, in turn, when I do mention something it holds more weight.

Figure out OP, if this was a genuinely painful experience for your dd or just shrieking from being denied her behavior and being held back and choose your line in the sand accordingly.


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## coffeegirl (Jan 1, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *averlee*
> 
> My totally honest and gut reaction: I would have shrieked "Get your hands off my baby!" and proceeded to freak out royally. There is not going to be any "united front" in my home that involves strong-arming little children. If my husband threatened to "really hurt" my child I would, um, take that pretty personally. Like I'd consider getting a restraining order and file for divorce immediately.
> 
> ...


Who would you have shrieked at to get their hands off your baby? Your husband or your daughter? Confusing double standard if you ask me.

To the OP: I believe that the husband has as much right to parent your children as you, the OP, do, and it sounds like he was trying to protect his baby (your son), too. What you're showing as an example of a "power struggle" is, to me, just an example of discipline. One of the reasons kids are under their parents direct supervision and authority (by law!) until they're of age. 

Sorry, mama. I feel for you but to disprespect and belittle him like that in front of the kids was just wrong. And to insist that he should bend to your ideas of parenting automatically is unreasonable. Please try to come to some kind of compromise.


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## averlee (Apr 10, 2009)

I have never been in that situation, my husband is a very gentle man, and he tends to treat our daughter with more patience and kindness than even I do. That is why I think I would freak out so much. While it would not really upset me to see a preschooler pulling on a toddler, it does bother me when I see parents pulling on their children's arm. It can hurt their elbow or shoulder. And of course, not all children who are punished corporally will end up in abusive relationships in adulthood, but many children do internalize rough treatment, they grow to feel they deserve it, and may carry those expectations into adulthood.

Again, I have never been in that situation. But I just can't see making any level of compromise relating to treating children with violence. "Don't hurt kids" is just something I could not compromise about.


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## mama*pisces (Feb 17, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dandelionkid*
> 
> I understand the OP. I do this with my dh. He is a lot louder than me and his presence in the room can be very uncomfortable to my sensitive nature when he is angry. I have learned to back-off a lot from stuff that really bothers me like yelling and physical re-direction and he in turn, has developed a more gentle approach, maybe because he feels he has some power back and autonomy to act.
> 
> ...


This. The first paragraph particularly resonated with me...sounds a lot like my house.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

nm


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## BrennaRawks (Feb 10, 2011)

While I personally would not have chastized my hubby in front of our kids, I'm glad for you, OP, that he listened and you are more at ease.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

I'll be honest - the fact that he's getting into power struggles over something like whether your dd can have a big carrot or has to have a baby carrot worries me more than anything in your OP does. That just seems really controlling.


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## pianojazzgirl (Apr 6, 2006)

I agree with Lisa on this one. My dh can also get like that sometimes (it used to be worse than it is now). I think it's like he thinks he can never back down or show weakness in front of the kids. So he might get some arbitrary idea in his head for no real reason (ie. she needs to eat the big carrot), and then, even though he might quickly realize that it's ridiculous, he gets even more insistent and refuses to budge on the matter. We've talked about it a bunch, and he gets what's going on and I've noticed a lot fewer of these "episodes" recently. I think OP that you might want to have a conversation with your dh about "choosing your battles", and how it's ok to change your mind with your kids if you realize you've made a mistake by saying "no" (or insisting on the big carrot!).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I'll be honest - the fact that he's getting into power struggles over something like whether your dd can have a big carrot or has to have a baby carrot worries me more than anything in your OP does. That just seems really controlling.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I'll be honest - the fact that he's getting into power struggles over something like whether your dd can have a big carrot or has to have a baby carrot worries me more than anything in your OP does. That just seems really controlling.


Eh, sometimes there are people who are just clueless about how to choose your battles, and get into dumb power struggles.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


I agree. I've found myself in a few of those myself. I just find it really bizarre that this would even be an issue. I don't think I've ever met a parent who would respond to "I want a big carrot" with anything but, "okay" (unless the big carrot was spoken for or something). It's just a really, really weird thing to be controlling about, yk?


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Oh totally!!! I agree that its weird, and a completely unnecessary power struggle, but maybe dad didn't want dd to eat 2 bites and then waste the rest of the carrot? Who knows, I saw a power struggle between a 3yo and another person once over taking his coat off. "Hi Zo, please take off your coat" "I don't want to" "Well, Zo, if you don't take off your coat we're not going to play until you do" - an equally dumb power struggle IMO (when he gets hot he'll take his coat off!), but some people just have no clue about kids and power struggles.

Personally, the only ones I choose are safety related ones (In the parking lot, ds holds my hands. Period. No ifs ands or buts about it. It's a safety thing.) Carrots are not on my list - but the OP's husband clearly needs to do some thinking about that and figure out his hills to die on - if carrots is among them, well, to each his own. I don't think that makes him particularly controlling, just on a different wavelength from me.


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## wishfulmom (May 23, 2008)

The only thing I could think of is that he thought the large carrot would go mostly uneaten and then they would have a wasted carrot. In my house a whole carrot would be too much for my kids and the small carrots are for snacking and the large carrots are cut up for stews, soups etc. I know my dh and I sometimes think like that and then we would sugges the small carrots and know they wouldn't really eat the large carrot. It nots a huge deal. Suggesting something like this is fine with my one son (he is more logical and understands speech much better) but my other son would start flipping out as soon as we said..." Why don't you try the small ones for a snack"


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
> 
> I'll be honest - the fact that he's getting into power struggles over something like whether your dd can have a big carrot or has to have a baby carrot worries me more than anything in your OP does. That just seems really controlling.


Yes, this.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

nm


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## asraidevin (Jul 30, 2010)

If I were in this situation I would look into counselling because I`d be afraid to leave my children with someone controlling and who could lash out if he isn`t obeyed.


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

nm


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma*
> 
> so DH is: 1) controlling and then 2) punitive when he is disobeyed.


This is the issue. The question is how ok or not ok is it for your children to be raised this way. It doesn't matter how many of us on this forum absolutely wouldn't put up with our spouse being controlling or punitive. What matters is how you feel about it. If you don't want your DH treating your DD this way maybe some of us can give you ideas on how you can help him stop doing these things. If all you need is for him to not react in a physical way ....... well the advice is different.


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## Marsupialmom (Sep 28, 2003)

About the carrot and controlling...hasn't anyone here every picked the wrong battle with their kids? or had a child screeching and fit throwing over simple things? I have







Not proud of it, but I am wondering if dad needs better skills on picking battles.

Since I don't know all the situation about the carrot I am going to say some possiblities.

1. I have told my child no for a food item because it was for later or I didn't know what my dh had plan for it (he cooks more than I)

2. Waste

I also don't think a screeching child equals necessarily mean the child is truly being harmed. Maybe my second child made me jaded but she use to find it great fun to screech so loud to set alarms of in bathrooms. We use to know which family bathrooms had safety systems. One particular mall she liked screeching because each time mommy would get to speak to a security guard. The screeching was attention-getting behavior. My girls use to also scream bloody murder if I mention washing hair, but my dh wouldn't get the same response. My second child was a minipulator, I remember her laughing when people would rush in as she screeched. My dh had to fill his mom and sil in that I didn't abuse her she just figured out a good way to get people running in.


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## Storm Bride (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom*
> 
> About the carrot and controlling...hasn't anyone here every picked the wrong battle with their kids? or had a child screeching and fit throwing over simple things? I have
> 
> ...


I totally agree with this. DS2 screeches like he's being beaten if we put a hand on his shoulder to get his attention, or pick him up off of his baby sister. I'm going to guess that the OP would know if her child was like this, but I definitely didn't have the "he was hurting her" reaction from the OP that a lot of people got.


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## One_Girl (Feb 8, 2008)

I initially thought that you overreacted, but I think that having an older child and being through so many times when I have been really stupid about my battles over the last several years made me too sympathetic to your dh based on your updates. I think it is great that your conversation with him worked. It sounded like the grabbing thing was a one time mistake on your husbands part, but I can see how you would be frustrated by the constant build up of power struggles over really stupid things like the carrot incident. I think the sit down conversation with him was a good idea and freaking out may have helped him get to a point where he was willing to have that conversation. I don't think that the things you describe are horrible for one time things, almost every parent has their not so wonderful moments even on GD boards. It sounds like your husband goes beyond that to daily full blown battles for control over everything. If this is an ongoing thing with him then I don't see any reason for a united front, especially if you saw him going from bad to worse on your children and decided it needed to end now. I suggest being firm about your boundaries and really encourage him to read up on some realistic gentle discipline stuff.

Since he is getting into a lot of power struggles I really suggest the book "The Explosive Child" by Ross Green. My dd isn't explosive at all, but it gives really good advice for categorizing issues and ranking them in terms of importance quickly before reacting. Even though your dd isn't explosive by nature she may be explosive with him because he is too controlling and she has to fight so hard to be recognized as a person so this book may be very helpful to his specific relationship with her, especially if he can catch himself now and prioritize while her exploding at him only involves saying she hates him and being easily redirected to time out. That way you won't find yourselves in another disaster if she finds out that she can refuse time out and he decides to physically prove her wrong. Dr. Sear's also wrote a decent book geared towards fathers and I remember it being a good read. Dr. Sear's Discipline Book may also be a good read because he does encourage very clear boundaries while also not going beyond time-out on the harshness scale. My ex really came around to the idea of gentle discipline after reading those two books when we were still married. Also, point out to him that you are with the kids most of the time so you know what works with them and ask him to do his best to trust that and work to be united with you in the discipline style that you feel comfortable using with your children. Pointing this out to my ex made him very willing to read and try when he wasn't willing to before and even though we have since split he never tried to go a different route in his parenting when he did see our dd.


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## coffeegirl (Jan 1, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Super~Single~Mama*
> 
> Oh totally!!! I agree that its weird, and a completely unnecessary power struggle, but maybe dad didn't want dd to eat 2 bites and then waste the rest of the carrot? Who knows, I saw a power struggle between a 3yo and another person once over taking his coat off. "Hi Zo, please take off your coat" "I don't want to" "Well, Zo, if you don't take off your coat we're not going to play until you do" - an equally dumb power struggle IMO (when he gets hot he'll take his coat off!), but some people just have no clue about kids and power struggles.
> 
> Personally, the only ones I choose are safety related ones (In the parking lot, ds holds my hands. Period. No ifs ands or buts about it. It's a safety thing.) Carrots are not on my list - but the OP's husband clearly needs to do some thinking about that and figure out his hills to die on - if carrots is among them, well, to each his own. I don't think that makes him particularly controlling, just on a different wavelength from me.


I dunno, you could look at these thigns as the dad engaging in power struggles, or you could look at it as the dad wanting the child to obey him. I know it's an old-fashioned idea, but some people still believe that preserving the integrity of a parent's authority is important. Yes, even people who believe in and practice gentle discipline. With the coat example, the issue-- for me-- would be that my child was saying no to something I just asked him to do. In my family that wouldn't be acceptable. Would it be made into a huge issue? No, but it would be addressed. So maybe the OP's DH comes from that oh-so-archaic school of parenting?


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## ElliesMomma (Sep 21, 2006)

nm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coffeegirl*
> 
> I dunno, you could look at these thigns as the dad engaging in power struggles, or you could look at it as the dad wanting the child to obey him. I know it's an old-fashioned idea, but some people still believe that preserving the integrity of a parent's authority is important. Yes, even people who believe in and practice gentle discipline. With the coat example, the issue-- for me-- would be that my child was saying no to something I just asked him to do. In my family that wouldn't be acceptable. Would it be made into a huge issue? No, but it would be addressed. So maybe the OP's DH comes from that oh-so-archaic school of parenting?


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## ssh (Aug 12, 2007)

There are definitely those parents who want their children to obey them and learn to obey those in authority. And there are those who want their children to learn to make good choices and do what is right even if it means specifically not obeying those in authority. Having strong different opinions on this could be a really big issue.

So depending on how you feel about this, you may or may not want to have a serious private conversation with your DH about your personal values and what kind of adults you want your children to become. Our families take on this topic isn't really relevant, just your feelings about it are. My DH and I have had conversations about how our discipline choices effect the adult our DD will be and we've made parenting style decisions based on those conversations. Also our mutual parenting style has evolved over time and after much discussion. And our DD is only 5.


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## Super~Single~Mama (Sep 23, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElliesMomma*
> 
> i think this is actually it. *my husband DOES want her to obey him* (even when what he says is illogical). and *i am not from that school of parenting.* i am a lot more flexible, and open to considering alternative ideas (which our daughter -- being bright and firstborn -- is more than happy to suggest).
> 
> ...


Then I think the issue is that you need to get onto the same page, and you each need to compromise. It is possible that your DH doesn't feel respected by either you or the children - which would make it even harder for him to parent in a way that you feel is appropriate.

actually think it is kinda silly to say that a child would be more likely to choke on a baby carrot than a big carrot - the problem isn't that one is slippery or one is rough, its that once they are bitten into they aren't all that easy to chew.

ETA - I just wanted to also say that since your DH has already raised children, his opinions should be taken seriously - as these 2 little ones are also his. He might also take very personally if you tell him that the way he did it before was the wrong way, or something b/c he might take that to mean that you don't like his older children. I also think this conversation should be in private, away from your children - they don't need to know that you disagree on parenting. That will just set them up to play you 2 against each other.


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