# 5-year-old hysterical at bedtime



## Stackmama (Mar 12, 2008)

My 5-year-old just fought me tooth and nail to go to bed. She still sleeps with a paci so I let her have that. I turn the bathroom light on, she has that. She has a regular, consistent bedtime and I announce it. But sometimes it's like she goes into a zone -- like she doesn't even realize what she is doing-- and she starts screaming, kicking the walls, throwing things, crying hysterically, screaming so loud and high pitched that it's like an axe murderer is after her and I live in an apartment and am *so* worried that someone is going to think I'm literally killing her! I've even went so far as to spank her to try to snap her out of the hysterics she goes into! It is LITERALLY hysterics. And I will ask her 'honey, what is wrong?what is wrong with you!?' and she just chokes and gags and cries and screams more and more. I yell, get myself upset and worked up, I finally get her to cry herself to sleep. But it happens every single night -- it's almost like she's overly tired but she goes to bed at 8, 8:30 pm every night and wakes up at around 7 or 8 a.m. Sometimes I will wake up at 3 a.m. to use the bathroom and she'll be in the living room watching TV! I get so furious!

What in the world am I doing wrong here and how can I get her to stop this hysterical drama? Something tells me this is far from normal.


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

What is your bedtime routine and what time do you start it?


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## Stackmama (Mar 12, 2008)

About an hour before bed, I remind her it's almost bedtime. The TV goes off, PJs go on, teeth get brushed, hair gets brushed, and she and her sister (who is 2) play (usually pretty rambunctiously) before it's time to get in bed. I try to put her sister in the toddler bed in the room with her but they play and screw around so I end up pulling my 2-year-old out of the room and putting her in the bed with me if they won't go to sleep together. That starts a whole nother fight!


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## mother culture (Oct 19, 2004)

I would offer that you look into a Waldorf method that I swear by. No TV in the home or at least not in the evening before bed on a regular basis. Soothing music in the evening, a wholsome meal at 6pm and another warm tea or milk before 7:30. After getting ready and brushing teeth you get ready for a candle lighting and a story. She can blow the candle out when the story is done. It can be a story you tell her ( children love to hear made up stories of themselves) or a book the less pictures the better before bed. Then end with a tuck in an d short song or if you are not a singing type a humming. Then it is lights out and if she cries then do not respond with verbal words if possible. Just keep returning her to her bed.


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## herbanmama (Jun 10, 2005)

I agree with mother culture. The bedtime ritual she describes is wonderful. An established ritual can be very helpful. I always read and sang with dd before bed. Of course, she couldn't get enough books, but she'd go down and it was a very special time for us. To this day, she reads in bed before I turn the lights out. Another thing which has helped us is music. She has a certain select number of CDs she requests as she falls asleep - Beethoven piano sonatas, sometimes soothing chant music like Deva Premal or Snatam Kaur, etc.

TV and computer are stimulants which interfere with sleep. That's why I always have to read in bed for an hour if I watch a dvd at night, or am up typing - even if it's really late. Get the TV out of this picture and substitute it with another bedtime ritual. The transition may take a while, but it should work.


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## AlicesMama (Nov 23, 2008)

It sounds like they are too worked up before bedtime. Imagine if you were bouncing around with another adult, wrestling on the floor and screaming and shouting. And then you had to go and lie down and fall asleep. Not the easiest transition.

Have you tried a bath? It sounds like they need to be separated before bedtime and play on their own or else find an activity which is really quiet that they can do together but doesn't mean they get worked up or feed off each other.

Bedtime stories are great. Nice and monotonous. We read the same ones over and over each night with low lighting.

I would also try an earlier bedtime like 7 or 7:30.

It also sounds like you get angry with your DD. You get mad, you yell, you get furious you spank her.

I would say she may be copying what you do. You have to remain calm at all times. You have to show her things can be achieved without getting mad. I would stop asking her what is wrong. If you can I would try to ignore her outbursts. Anger is one of those emotions that feeds off itself and escalates. As an adult, you have more power to stay in control, you can rationalise your emotions, therefore the onus is on you to remain calm. Tell her if she carries on there will be no bedtime story tonight. Or further treats will be taken away. But say it calmly. Count to 10. She is testing your control and she thinks some of the time she can win but you need to let her know calmly, you are Mum and you are in control but not by shouting and getting worked up yourself. You are her role model.

If you find her watching TV at 3am, I would pick her up and tuck her into bed again with the minimum of fuss. I wouldn't get cross. Something is wrong and getting cross isn't going to solve the problem.

I'm sorry, I seem judgemental here, but I'm not, sometimes things just get carried away and we can't see the wood for the trees.


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## Stackmama (Mar 12, 2008)

Oh no I am sooo appreciative of everyone's awesome advice and ideas here. I will DEFINITELY be instituting these.

One question I do have: Should I continue to try to leave dd2 in the toddler bed in the same room? Follow the same routine with both of them and as long as they are quiet, let them stay in the room together? Or do I keep them separate until dd1 has a more established bedtime routine that helps her get to sleep? I really would like both dd's in their own beds in their room. Not because I'm anti-cosleeping -- just the opposite. I coslept with both children prior to my divorce. But being a single mom now, I just NEED that space and 'me-time' at night in my own peaceful bed.


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## amis2girls (Mar 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AlicesMama* 
I would also try an earlier bedtime like 7 or 7:30.

This. Your 5yo might be like mine and need twelve hours of sleep. Mine is a different child on less.


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## Stackmama (Mar 12, 2008)

Well, just got done with the bedtime routine. I go in and my 2-year-old is laying between the mattress and the box springs, the sheets are off the bed, and they are laughing at me.









I silently got up, went in there, dragged my 2-year-old out of the mattress, put her in the bed, grabbed my older ones arm firmly, laid her back down, and she laughed at me as I walked out of the room.

So far, not so good. I want to scream right now........

ok, separated them. Had to put 2-year-old in my bed behind me and 5-year-old is screaming at the top of her lungs. She doesn't want to sleep in the room by herself, she doesn't want the door closed, she doesn't want the light off,it's always something. She runs me ragged.

All of this after a soothing bath, book, teeth brushing, and laying them down quietly with the fan on a warm night.

I'm done. I give up.


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## AlicesMama (Nov 23, 2008)

Stackmama - DON'T GIVE UP!!! It's going to take weeks of doing this for it to work but you should give yourself a good pat on the back -you have made a start and though it's tough at the beginning it will get easier and you will be so grateful you started this. Remember, Rome wasn't built in a day. DDs have been used to craziness for a while, it's not going to be solved in just one night.

Aim for the same routine for the next 2 weeks, the same routine. I'm certain you will start to see results.

If they want to sleep together they can, but only if they are quiet. You let them know that if they go to bed quietly, they can sleep together. If they are noisy, they will be separated.

You have to start laying down ground rules and offering incentives for good behaviour. I would find out what 5year old really wants to do or have at the moment. If she's good and goes to bed quietly for a whole week - she will get a trip to X. She will get toy Y. I would start a reward chart. She gets stickers when she is good. She needs lots of praise when she does well but don't go overboard. She is your DD, not your friend, nor is she an adult yet so don't overload her with choices. You say what, when, where.

Also, remember consistency consistency consistency. Keep things the same every night with the same ground rules and they will start to respond I am certain.

YOu could try x-posting your question in toddlers and parenting - I'm sure there will be lots of help there too, many more responses than on here.

Here's a link to some reward charts and the whole concept. Reward charts.

Here's another good link from the same site about preventing tantrums


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

I was just thinking perhaps you can sit down and talk with the 5 year old during the day to discuss what she had wanted the night before. It may be the only way you get a chance to understand her, since she is screaming incoherently at bedtime.


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## AJP (Apr 30, 2003)

The soothing bedtime suggestions already offered here are great, and ITA. It might take an exhausting level of persistence and consistency on your part to break out of this disruptive pattern, but you can do it!

Two other things occurred to me in reading your posts.
1) As I'm sure you know, divorce can be extremely disruptive emotionally and psychologically for children, even if the home was not peaceful before the divorce. I was a child of divorce, and I remember what it was like to feel I had no control at all over what was happening in my life - parents separating, moving, changing schools, etc. It's possible she's trying (subconsciously) to exert some control over her own life, by rejecting your bedtime guidance and pushing your buttons, and the littler one is getting in on the act for the same reasons and also because it's natural to follow the lead of an older sibling. It might help to let her feel like she has more input on the bedtime routine, within reason - give her some simple choices inside the framework you choose. Be firm, calm and consistent, night after night (maybe until you feel on the verge of running from the house screaming). It probably feels like a contest of wills at this point, but try to remember that you are the parent and have to set an example, and she needs your guidance to get into a peaceful place.

2) Have you considered she might have sensitivities to certain foods or food additives? The kind of rages you describe, night waking and trouble settling down, can all be a result of reactions to foods or additives (preservatives, colors, flavors, MSG).


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## Shenjall (Sep 14, 2002)

What about sitting in the room with them until they sleep? Bring a book for you, and quietly read that while they go to sleep. This way you can catch them before all the sheets are off the bed.

And I understand your need for "you" time, I really do. I'm just thinking that 30 - hour sitting there might be better than 2 hours of fighting and stewing the rest of the night b/c they're driving you mad.

Hang in there







s


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## ~PurityLake~ (Jul 31, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shenjall* 
What about sitting in the room with them until they sleep? Bring a book for you, and quietly read that while they go to sleep. This way you can catch them before all the sheets are off the bed.

And I understand your need for "you" time, I really do. I'm just thinking that 30 - hour sitting there might be better than 2 hours of fighting and stewing the rest of the night b/c they're driving you mad.

Hang in there







s


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