# Spanking in schools, why is this still allowed?



## vaughnmama (May 18, 2007)

This is so crazy that kids are being "disciplined" by being hit at school.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/20/cor...ent/index.html


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## anywaybecause (Jul 9, 2008)

Okay, my first reaction was "They still spank in schools?" but WOW.

Take a look at the interactive map -- it's sadly not surprising. When you mouse over a state, it tells you how many kids were spanked last year at school. Some states . . .


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

:









its legal in MY state!!!!!!!!!


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## OhDang (Jan 30, 2008)

what? thats illegal here i am pretty sure.

edit:

yup its illegal here









i thought it was illegal EVERYWHERE!


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## Oriole (May 4, 2007)

It varies by region. Unbefreakinglievable...


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## WC_hapamama (Sep 19, 2005)

Just a lurker, but I remember when corporal punishment was still legal in schools in CA. I remember being on In School Suspension in the 4th grade, where they sat me at a table across the hall from the principal's. A kid got spanked on one of the days I was sitting in the hall, and I still remember it 23 years later. Kind of traumatic, and I wasn't even the one getting spanked.


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

Do they really?!








ETA: If my kids were in school and I found out they were being not only spanked but _paddled_, I'd be bending every single faculty member over and paddling _them_.







:


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## ians_mommy (Apr 5, 2008)

Disgusting. So not only can parents physically assault a child, but I guess any adult in "authority" can.


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

I remember students getting the paddle in front of the rest of the class. I still remember the force and the "cracking" sound. I am still traumatized by it, and it wasnt me being hit. I cant believe this crap is still legal.









I am in PA, btw.


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## mama*pisces (Feb 17, 2008)

OMG. Over 18 _thousand_ kids in my state got paddled last year. If there was any doubt in my mind that my ds is not going to go to public schools(which really, there wasn't), this resolves the question. I'm either homeschooling or doing Montessori or Waldorf....assuming that they don't paddle.

How can this even be legal? We're in the year 2008.....this makes me feel like we are not growing as a society, but regressing. How can so many people be in favor of this? It's really making me want to cry.

I too, remember being at hearing the resounding _crack_ of the paddle on another kid's behind during my one year of Catholic private school in second grade. That image and sound will stay with me forever, and as the pp said, it wasn't even me. It still makes me shudder. There has to be some way to outlaw this. It really breaks my heart.







:


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## Pippi L. (Jan 25, 2008)

Wow. Unreal. I'd freak out if my daughter were hit at school. And as a teacher here in Vancouver, I'm sure I would lose my job if I ever took a hand to a student -- and that's exactly as it should be.


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## minimunklemama (Nov 24, 2004)

I cannot believe this!!!!
I am sorry but if I found out that someone had hit my child with a paddle,I would be there in a heartbeat and I would wrap the paddle so hard around their head that the imprint would be there forever!! Sorry,not very GD I know but when it comes to protecting my kids,this animal just escapes from within!!


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## nextcommercial (Nov 8, 2005)

Until I saw that on the news, I had NO idea paddling was still going on in schools in ANY state. It's not allowed in my state, so I guess I assumed it wasn't allowed anywhere.


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## glendora (Jan 24, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *minimunklemama* 
I cannot believe this!!!!
I am sorry but if I found out that someone had hit my child with a paddle,I would be there in a heartbeat and I would wrap the paddle so hard around their head that the imprint would be there forever!! Sorry,not very GD I know but when it comes to protecting my kids,this animal just escapes from within!!

Even in Texas, parents have to sign off on it.


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## minimunklemama (Nov 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *glendora* 
Even in Texas, parents have to sign off on it.

I wouldn't be 'signing off' on it!!! I would be telling them where to stick their signing sheet and high tailing it out of that state with my precious babes tucked under my arms,as quick as my little legs could carry me!!!

Thank god it is illegal in my state or we would be moving.TODAY!!!!!

I am just SO shocked that this still goes on.


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## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

In most cases, the parents do have the choice to "opt out", but unfortunately, most parents in those areas do not see any harm in it. Or, the school ignores it. Some schools will refuse to take inter-district transfer students if the parents try to opt out. In fact, some parents are like: you get in trouble at school, you are also in trouble at home. Sometimes, the child has the choice between getting paddled or suspended and chooses the momentary sting of the paddle to being suspended.

My eldest child has been paddled at school. Once. She straightened up after that and the lecture she got at home.


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## Herausgeber (Apr 29, 2006)

_"Corporal punishment is not effective at the junior and senior high school levels, and I do not recommend its application," Dobson said on the organization's Web site.

"It can be useful for elementary students, especially with amateur clowns (as opposed to hard-core troublemakers). For this reason, I am opposed to abolishing spanking in elementary schools because we have systematically eliminated the tools with which teachers have traditionally backed up their word. We're now down to a precious few. Let's not go any further in that direction."_

I think it's interesting that he supports hitting little kids, but not older ones. While he explains that in language about what "works," I've always suspected that the general attitude about this comes from the fact that an older kid is often strong enough to meaningfully fight back -- and even physically overcome their attacker.

(Yes, I consider such "discipline" to be physical assault.)


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2lilsweetfoxes* 

My eldest child has been paddled at school. Once. She straightened up after that and the lecture she got at home.

You lectured _her_ after _she_ was paddled at school?


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## 2lilsweetfoxes (Apr 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aaronsmom* 
You lectured _her_ after _she_ was paddled at school?

I was in Korea at the time and she was living with her grandparents. Long story on that. She got a lecture (and her computer games taken away for a day, which is worse in her mind) for the _misbehavior that led to the paddling_.


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2lilsweetfoxes* 
I was in Korea at the time and she was living with her grandparents. Long story on that. She got a lecture (and her computer games taken away for a day, which is worse in her mind) for the _misbehavior that led to the paddling_.

I don't agree with the paddling in the first place but I _really_ don't understand why she'd get punished 3 times for the same thing (paddling, lecture, then games taken away).


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aaronsmom* 
I don't agree with the paddling in the first place but I _really_ don't understand why she'd get punished 3 times for the same thing (paddling, lecture, then games taken away).

Yeah, overkill. 3 punishments for one misdeed?


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## odenata (Feb 1, 2005)

I went to a public school in TN where paddling was used often. My mom had a note on file for me that said I was not to be paddled (it never came up as an issue) and told me I should leave and walk home if they tried. (We lived a block away.)

I do know my sister was paddled at 16 by the (creepy and icky) male principal, who had made inappropriate sexual comments towards her.







:

I would absolutely not send my child to a school where this was used as punishment ever, for anyone, period.


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *odenata* 

I do know my sister was paddled at 16 by the (creepy and icky) male principal, who had made inappropriate sexual comments towards her.







:


OT but we had a bio teacher like this in HS. One time he poured a bottle of water on my friends WHITE tshirt...all over her breasts. She reported him but none of the staff believed her.


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## midnightmommy (Apr 14, 2008)

And parents wonder why I have such a problem with the fact that we can't sneak in on any given day and observe my son's class without first telling the teacher! The bad behavior of creepy teachers is far greater than the threat of a nut with a gun.


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## frontierpsych (Jun 11, 2006)

Ick. I did know they still spanked in schools, but it sucks hearing about it, especially that parents allow it! I mean, my mom was a spanker, but if anyone at my schools had tried to spank me (it was legal, but required parental consent) there would be HELL to pay. It's sad enough to me that there are parents who believe it's okay for them to spank, but to allow others to spank your kids makes me really nauseous. In that case it's not just a cycle or not understanding the harm or inefficacy of spanking, it just seems heartless.


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## minimunklemama (Nov 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2lilsweetfoxes* 
In most cases, the parents do have the choice to "opt out", but unfortunately, most parents in those areas do not see any harm in it. Or, the school ignores it. Some schools will refuse to take inter-district transfer students if the parents try to opt out. In fact, some parents are like: you get in trouble at school, you are also in trouble at home. Sometimes, the child has the choice between getting paddled or suspended and chooses the momentary sting of the paddle to being suspended.

My eldest child has been paddled at school. Once. She straightened up after that and the lecture she got at home.

OMG you eldest is only 7 years old







how can people think that this is okay???????


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## minimunklemama (Nov 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aaronsmom* 
I don't agree with the paddling in the first place but I _really_ don't understand why she'd get punished 3 times for the same thing (paddling, lecture, then games taken away).









:
why do people think that it is okay to drag out a punishment.Tell them once,give the appropriate consequence and be done with it,talk about teaching a child to drag things out and hold a grudge


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## Lily Eve (Feb 15, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *minimunklemama* 
OMG you eldest is only 7 years old







how can people think that this is okay???????

You took the words right out of my mouth. 7 years old and paddled at school? And then a lecture and games taken away? I'd cut off the grandparents for life if this were me (right after I slapped a few people around the head at the school). This is the worst thing I've heard in a long time...poor, poor girl.


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## naupakamama (Mar 26, 2005)

Here is another article about the same issue written from a point of view that makes it sound even worse. Wow. All I can say is









http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...International/


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *naupakamama* 
Here is another article about the same issue written from a point of view that makes it sound even worse. Wow. All I can say is









http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...International/

Paddling children with disabilities? A three yo came home with BRUISES?! uke







:








This is ridiculous. God! It's just making my blood boil now. Something needs to be done about this!


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## minimunklemama (Nov 24, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *naupakamama* 
Here is another article about the same issue written from a point of view that makes it sound even worse. Wow. All I can say is









http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...International/

OMG did any of you read the comments left to this article??? it's a bloody god job that comments are closed or I would have a thing or ten to say to those commenters!!


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## Sri Radha (Jun 24, 2007)

That map was disturbing. I am not sure if I will home school or not (most likely will), but if we move to a state that allows this, I WILL home school. Sick. I really thought it was illegal everywhere, too.


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## moon.mom (Feb 27, 2007)

Hello- I've never explored this part of MDC before...

My name is Moon.mom and I've lived in Texas for most of my life.
(brief stays in Tennessee, Kansas and Washington)

I'm a public school educator. (for 7 years)
I attended public school K - 12 in central/west Texas- small town.

My first year teaching(5th grade)- I had a girl who was so needy. I loved her and worked with her so much... her home life was a wreck... she was pushing/shoving one day- I calmly ask her to move away- and she shouted "Slut!" at me. the Asst. Principal heard her. I was crushed.
We all 3 went to the office. He called her mother. She was up there in like 5 minutes. He gave her 2 "licks" that almost gave ME a heart attack. Then her mother took the board and gave her 2 more. (I'll spare you the details...like how high her feet came off the ground)

I was biting my lip and tears were falling out of my eyes.
They suspended her for 3 days also.

When they left the room- I broke down bawling. The Asst. Principal waited until I could talk. I said I didn't think that was right. He said- "That's the only way to handle kids like that."
I WAS HORRIFIED...
I did not sign my contract to return to that school...for many reasons...but the spankings were a major reason.

At my current school, spanking is only with parent permission and our principal uses it as LAST RESORT...and doesn't even do it by her decision- the parents will request it sometimes.

Something you have to think about- on that CNN map- which states are spanking legal in? the southern ones.

I don't want to get into politics and religion...but compare the southern states to the rest of the country...

Mostly what I'm saying is don't be shocked by this...
Spanking/corporal punishment isn't the only thing that happens in the southern states that doesn't happen everywhere else.
There are seriously people in the south who wish "the south would have won..." (the civil war) still fly the rebel flags... hate crimes for race, religion, gender and homosexuality... I could go on and on.









I live here by choice, I know, but my family is here. older parents and syblings. If it weren't for them- we'd be far above the Mason-Dixon line...

There are pockets of us liberal, wacky, hippie, weirdos....







:
(up "north" we would probably be plain and simple people...)

So spanking makes me sad and mad, too.








But just remember, it's been legal for a long time, and not likely to change.
(After all, the bible talks about it...)

(I consider myself a religious person- Unitarian Universalist- and I hope I don't sound condescending towards other religions...or political parties, for that matter...)

Edit: I forgot to mention- I was spanked as a child- by my Dad- and it scared the living daylights out of me...I decided sometime in college that I would never spank my children...GLAD to know there are other people just as passionate about it!
Big people hitting children to teach them that hitting other people is wrong...hmmmmmmmm I see NO logic there...


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## GooeyRN (Apr 24, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moon.mom* 
Hello- I've never explored this part of MDC before...

My name is Moon.mom and I've lived in Texas for most of my life.
(brief stays in Tennessee, Kansas and Washington)

I'm a public school educator. (for 7 years)
I attended public school K - 12 in central/west Texas- small town.

My first year teaching(5th grade)- I had a girl who was so needy. I loved her and worked with her so much... her home life was a wreck... she was pushing/shoving one day- I calmly ask her to move away- and she shouted "Slut!" at me. the Asst. Principal heard her. I was crushed.
We all 3 went to the office. He called her mother. She was up there in like 5 minutes. He gave her 2 "licks" that almost gave ME a heart attack. Then her mother took the board and gave her 2 more. (I'll spare you the details...like how high her feet came off the ground)

I was biting my lip and tears were falling out of my eyes.
They suspended her for 3 days also.

When they left the room- I broke down bawling. The Asst. Principal waited until I could talk. I said I didn't think that was right. He said- "That's the only way to handle kids like that."
I WAS HORRIFIED...
I did not sign my contract to return to that school...for many reasons...but the spankings were a major reason.

At my current school, spanking is only with parent permission and our principal uses it as LAST RESORT...and doesn't even do it by her decision- the parents will request it sometimes.

Something you have to think about- on that CNN map- which states are spanking legal in? the southern ones.

I don't want to get into politics and religion...but compare the southern states to the rest of the country...

Mostly what I'm saying is don't be shocked by this...
Spanking/corporal punishment isn't the only thing that happens in the southern states that doesn't happen everywhere else.
There are seriously people in the south who wish "the south would have won..." (the civil war) still fly the rebel flags... hate crimes for race, religion, gender and homosexuality... I could go on and on.









I live here by choice, I know, but my family is here. older parents and syblings. If it weren't for them- we'd be far above the Mason-Dixon line...

There are pockets of us liberal, wacky, hippie, weirdos....







:
(up "north" we would probably be plain and simple people...)

So spanking makes me sad and mad, too.








But just remember, it's been legal for a long time, and not likely to change.
(After all, the bible talks about it...)

(I consider myself a religious person- Unitarian Universalist- and I hope I don't sound condescending towards other religions...or political parties, for that matter...)

Edit: I forgot to mention- I was spanked as a child- by my Dad- and it scared the living daylights out of me...I decided sometime in college that I would never spank my children...GLAD to know there are other people just as passionate about it!
Big people hitting children to teach them that hitting other people is wrong...hmmmmmmmm I see NO logic there...

Your story about the paddle is really sad.







That poor kid. I can see losing recess or getting detention over using foul language. But my goodness... Paddleing for that? And then the mother did it, too? Poor kiddo. She probaby had the spirit beat right out of her. Sure, she may not call a teacher a slut again, but at what cost?


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## MommytoHHH (Sep 12, 2006)

Not only does it happen but in some states, they don't even require parental consent. All GA law says is that it has to be reasonable, can't be a first line of punishment, must be witnessed, must be documented, and cannot be performed if a DOCTOR has deemed it unacceptable for a child.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

I didn't know it WAS still allowed. At the schools I went to, a teacher would be fired if they did that.


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2lilsweetfoxes* 
My eldest child has been paddled at school. Once. She straightened up after that and the lecture she got at home.

I can't imagine the sheer cajones you have to admit here at *MDC* that you're cool with your kid getting paddled......you must have one NASA-level flame-proof suit.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2lilsweetfoxes* 
In most cases, the parents do have the choice to "opt out", but unfortunately, most parents in those areas do not see any harm in it. Or, the school ignores it. Some schools will refuse to take inter-district transfer students if the parents try to opt out. In fact, some parents are like: you get in trouble at school, you are also in trouble at home. Sometimes, the child has the choice between getting paddled or suspended and chooses the momentary sting of the paddle to being suspended.

My eldest child has been paddled at school. Once. She straightened up after that and the lecture she got at home.

I'm confused. You say it's unfortunate that parents don't see harm in their children getting paddled but then post about your own child getting paddled in a way that suggests you are ok with it.

I thought this was the Gentle Discipline forum...


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## wek524 (Jun 11, 2005)

_In addition, special education students with mental or physical disabilities were more likely to receive corporal punishment, according to the ACLU and Human Rights Watch._

That whole article was extremely sad and disturbing, but this line was what really got me.


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## DoingDoing:Julie (May 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Herausgeber* 
_

he supports hitting little kids, but not older ones. I've always suspected that the general attitude about this comes from the fact that an older kid is often strong enough to meaningfully fight back -- and even physically overcome their attacker.

(Yes, I consider such "discipline" to be physical assault.)
_
_
_
_
Actually so do I. Adults misbehave with 50x the effect that kids have. If I walked up to one misbehaving adult and gave them a smack in the rear I'd go to jail! Its funny that adults think kids are so different from us. I remember being spanked as a child by my mother, and thinking that It wasnt fair, and that I'd like to give her a swat. I also remember feeling and KNOWING that my spanking was uncalled for, that my mother wasnt being sensitive to me, and that there had to be another way. I must have been 8 years old.
Children have the same feelings as adults! Though their judgement may or may not be as good, we have to treat them the way that we would like to be treated!!!_


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DoingDoing:Julie* 
Actually so do I. Adults misbehave with 50x the effect that kids have. If I walked up to one misbehaving adult and gave them a smack in the rear I'd go to jail! Its funny that adults think kids are so different from us. I remember being spanked as a child by my mother, and thinking that It wasnt fair, and that I'd like to give her a swat. I also remember feeling and KNOWING that my spanking was uncalled for, that my mother wasnt being sensitive to me, and that there had to be another way. I must have been 8 years old.
Children have the same feelings as adults! Though their judgement may or may not be as good, we have to treat them the way that we would like to be treated!!!









I hate this line of reasoning. If I was snarky to my mother and then she was disrespectful right back, or if I'd hit her in the arm and she'd smack me across the face I always asked her, "Why can you do xyz and I can't?" Her response was always "because I'm x years old and you're x years old, that's why." I vowed never to be like that with my kids. Just because mommy is older doesn't make it okay for mommy to do certain things.


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## riversong (Aug 11, 2005)

I also read an article that said it's much more likely for children of color to get paddled than white children. Not surprising at all in this country.

Is there a petition to sign or something to support the cause of getting corporal punishment out of all schools? One of the articles linked to here said there are groups working to ban it.


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riversong* 
I also read an article that said it's much more likely for children of color to get paddled than white children. Not surprising at all in this country.

Is there a petition to sign or something to support the cause of getting corporal punishment out of all schools? One of the articles linked to here said there are groups working to ban it.

If not, we need to start one. It figures that two already disadvantaged groups of people (people of color and people with disabilities) are more likely to get paddled. Ridiculous.







: Not that ANY child should be paddled but that makes it that much worse that it's being used as a means of discrimination.


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## New_Natural_Mom (Dec 21, 2007)

This stuff makes my heart hurt. I was spanked when I was little. I knew it was wrong, but then it got to the point where I would hit back. I was grounded and yelled at a lot too. None of it did any good. Spanking makes me sick. It is a violent attack on a child. I saw my mom spank my niece a few weeks ago (and you best believe I intervened) and it has haunted me ever since. If someone laid a hand on my son in school, my DH would have to hold me back. I would be pressing charges and going to the media. Nobody will touch my son. Ever. I didn't even know this was allowed. Anywhere.







:


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## jeca (Sep 21, 2002)

It's allowed here and I must say I am really really surprised. There were eight cases for that year. I know it was done in my high school and my parents never signed off on it for me. I was a good kid anyway and my parents believed in spanking but they do not believe in letting other people do it. Weird that. I would not even enroll my kids in a school that uses corporal punishment.


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## ~Mom2thhts~ (May 18, 2006)

This is shocking. So, teachers arent allowed to hug a student but they can spank them??









I was spanked in 2nd grade for running from a boy that was chasing me. I never told my mom out of fear of what would happen at home. My parents always sided with the teachers. The school never notified her of my spanking and when I told her many years later she said she would not have allowed the school to spank me.


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Mom2thhts~* 
This is shocking. So, teachers arent allowed to hug a student but they can spank them??









*I was spanked in 2nd grade for running from a boy that was chasing me.* I never told my mom out of fear of what would happen at home. My parents always sided with the teachers. The school never notified her of my spanking and when I told her many years later she said she would not have allowed the school to spank me.









WTF?!! Why?! That doesn't even make sense!







:


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## ~Mom2thhts~ (May 18, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *aaronsmom* 







WTF?!! Why?! That doesn't even make sense!







:

Nor does it make sense to me.







I was labeled by the school as a troublemaker. I had ADD and my 2nd grade teacher did not like me. Once, she took the whole class out to play at the playground but made me stay in the classroom by myself.







: My 1st grade teacher made fun of me for being so small and short. I would come home crying but my mom never did anything.

I never want to put my kids in public school. We hs for 6 years, but this year we put them in a really small private school, but I am always involved and I encourage my children to voice any concerns they may have about school. When we move back to the states I plan on hs again.


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *~Mom2thhts~* 
Nor does it make sense to me.







I was labeled by the school as a troublemaker. I had ADD and my 2nd grade teacher did not like me. Once, she took the whole class out to play at the playground but made me stay in the classroom by myself.







: My 1st grade teacher made fun of me for being so small and short. I would come home crying but my mom never did anything.

I never want to put my kids in public school. We hs for 6 years, but this year we put them in a really small private school, but I am always involved and I encourage my children to voice any concerns they may have about school. When we move back to the states I plan on hs again.

That's terrible.















Speaking of teachers poking fun, I once had an african american choir teacher in high schoolthat always referred to me as the "little white girl" (I'm half white half puerto rican but I look caucasian)(the choir class was predominately black and hispanic)and that always made me feel singled out and embarrassed.







:


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## nummies (Jun 9, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *2lilsweetfoxes* 
In most cases, the parents do have the choice to "opt out", but unfortunately, most parents in those areas do not see any harm in it. Or, the school ignores it. Some schools will refuse to take inter-district transfer students if the parents try to opt out. In fact, some parents are like: you get in trouble at school, you are also in trouble at home. Sometimes, the child has the choice between getting paddled or suspended and chooses the momentary sting of the paddle to being suspended.

My eldest child has been paddled at school. Once. She straightened up after that and the lecture she got at home.

That is just so, so sad. I feel sorry for your child.

On another note, I can't find where the map is? Can anyone direct me? I want to see if this *(%& is legal in my state.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

Petition, USA: http://www.petitiononline.com/maka13/petition.html

Petition, Canada: http://www.naturalchild.org/advocacy...ection_43.html

Christian petition: http://www.parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/petition.html

International petition: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/endchildabuse/

Pat


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

There are still *21 States* that permit teachers and principals to hit children in public and private schools. Here is a link to see if your state still permits corporal punishment. Some states *do not* require parents be notified in advance, nor require parental "permission" for the administration to paddle students. I am actively working to abolish corporal punishment in North Carolina. There is information at this link about helping to eliminate corporal punishment statewide and nationally in schools.
http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/
http://www.stophitting.com/disatscho...tesBanning.php

Also see www.NoSpank.net

Please clarify and communicate your expectations _in writing_ to your school administration that discipline not involve hitting your child. Yes, it does still happen. Some 5000 students in NC were hit last year by educators. And a disproportionate number of young students in our county were hit while in disabled (with an IEP) programs even.

That is public schools. Private school may still use corporal punishment, I believe.

Pat


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## DoingDoing:Julie (May 8, 2008)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *minimunklemama* 
OMG did any of you read the comments left to this article??? it's a bloody god job that comments are closed or I would have a thing or ten to say to those commenters!!

This article is more honest than the first! When I thought of that pregnant 16 year old being smacked in the behind for being late, I could have cried! And the poor little boy beaten black and blue for playing with an AC! What monster could think that is okay?
And I AGREE that when a man paddles a female student in the behind, there is a VERY noticable element of sexual abuse as well.
And the old man who left a comment on that article should be put in prison! That is a little harsh, I know, but to agree wholeheartedly with the punishment, and then to go on and say that girls shouldn't go to the same schools as boys because it MAKES boys think nasty thoughts! EXCUSE ME!!!! Thats like the mideval notion that girls are born sinful!


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## riversong (Aug 11, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *WuWei* 
There are still *21 States* that permit teachers and principals to hit children in public and private schools. Here is a link to see if your state still permits corporal punishment. Some states *do not* require parents be notified in advance, nor require parental "permission" for the administration to paddle students. I am actively working to abolish corporal punishment in North Carolina. There is information at this link about helping to eliminate corporal punishment statewide and nationally in schools.
http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/
http://www.stophitting.com/disatscho...tesBanning.php

Also see www.NoSpank.net

Please clarify and communicate your expectations _in writing_ to your school administration that discipline not involve hitting your child. Yes, it does still happen. Some 5000 students in NC were hit last year by educators. And a disproportionate number of young students in our county were hit while in disabled (with an IEP) programs even.

That is public schools. Private school may still use corporal punishment, I believe.

Pat

Thanks for the information, Pat. I signed the national petition online. I live in CA, where corporal punishment is banned. Is there something more you know of that I can do to help in other states?


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *riversong* 
Thanks for the information, Pat. I signed the national petition online. I live in CA, where corporal punishment is banned. Is there something more you know of that I can do to help in other states?

I *thought* it was banned here since spanking in schools is virtually unheard of here. Good to know.

And yeah, IS there anything I can do about the goings on of other states?


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## KaliShanti (Mar 23, 2008)

It is definitely legal in my State (TX), but it is not really heard of in the bigger schools, just in really small ones. I remember one of my friends getting paddled as a junior in high school! It was somewhat funny to us (and to him) because who spanks a 16 year old?? It's not like his mom was still spanking him or anything.


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## sillygrl (Feb 10, 2008)

I went back to Texas after HS graduation to go to school, and was shocked when I learned that spanking was still legal there (this was in 1999-2000). Furthermore, I kind of was dating this senior from a really small school, and he told me that all the students in woodshop actually *make* the paddles that are used. Gawd, disgusting.


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## WuWei (Oct 16, 2005)

You can get more information about how to voice dissent about corporal punishment in schools at the NoSpank.net site. The "Parents and Teachers Against Violence in Education" PTAVE) site has articles and ways to get involved. http://nospank.net/adv.htm#vlntr

Or the "Center for Effective Discipline" http://www.stophitting.com/disatschool/

Legislative and Grass Roots Strategies: http://www.stophitting.com/disatscho...GrassRoots.php

Find the number of students paddled in your school district: http://www.stophitting.com/disatscho...php#ocrProcess

Pat


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## angela&avery (May 30, 2002)

well now THERE is a reason to home school!!!!

lucky for me, we live in a state where it is banned....


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## aaronsmom (Jan 22, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sillygrl* 
I went back to Texas after HS graduation to go to school, and was shocked when I learned that spanking was still legal there (this was in 1999-2000). Furthermore, I kind of was dating this senior from a really small school, and he told me that all the students in woodshop actually *make* the paddles that are used. Gawd, disgusting.

Talk about adding salt to an open wound.







: That's like my grandma telling me that when she was a kid her parents would make her go cut her own switch.


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## AstridS (Mar 9, 2007)

Yet another reason why I'm not considering the US a safe place for my children to grow up.


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## Lady Lilya (Jan 27, 2007)

There is a big difference between saying "my kid was paddled and punished and I think it is great" and saying "while not in my care my child was paddled and punished, and then she didn't repeat the offending behavior." The second is just a statement of fact. An observation. Not endorsement of anything.

I think some of you came down way too hard on that poster.


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## MaddieMay (Jul 14, 2006)

My first year of teaching, I (naively) signed a contract with a district that allowed this. When I found out, I was horrified. I had little support from staff members and parents for my beliefs, which was hard as a first year teacher. But-I was able to bond with my students so well and I really earned their trust.

As a teacher, I am a firm believer that school MUST be a safe place-no matter what. How can we show children that school is a safe place if this is allowed? We can't.


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## Talula Fairie (Jan 7, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lady Lilya* 
There is a big difference between saying "my kid was paddled and punished and I think it is great" and saying "while not in my care my child was paddled and punished, and then she didn't repeat the offending behavior." The second is just a statement of fact. An observation. Not endorsement of anything.

I think some of you came down way too hard on that poster.

It's pretty hard to tell someone's intent online. It didn't seem like an observation to me. It seemed like, "hey look, paddling worked." If that's not an endorsement, what is? Why even mention that it worked unless you are ok with it? In fact, many women have stated that spanking works temporarily, but that's only because the child becomes too afraid to act up. Not a good thing. So even the fact that it "worked" doesn't excuse the act. There are other, better ways, to improve behavior.

Someone who truly isn't ok with it would have been like "my school paddled my child once and I was horrified." They would have felt horrified no matter what the result. Most of the people that I've seen here (including myself) think any kind of spanking is outright abuse.


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## mommyto3girls (May 3, 2005)

I am in Ohio where paddling is legal in schools, but the district i teach in (4th largest in the state, very low socio-economic district) it is banned. for those of you in states where it is still legal check with your local district to see what their policy is as many individual districts have banned corporal punishment despite what is "allowed" by the state


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## ewe+lamb (Jul 20, 2004)

I find this and all the other horrific stories absolutely abhorrent - I cannot understand it, however, I used to go in and sing in my dd's pre-school class (we're in france - so things are different) but anyway after the teacher, assistant and helper for the autistic boy got used to me I saw things no parent should ever see, the worst was when the autistic boy was having a difficult moment and they locked him in a cupboard with no light and let him kick and scream - he had to learn, they said, very proud of their 'technique', I told them that if anyone did that in my country they would loose their jobs, I informed the director and the parents, I gave them information on a 'congres' which they could go to and be informed as to how to teach, anyway the little boy didn't come back this year - needless to say really. What surprised me the most was that my dd's teacher had just commented a few weeks earlier so say how impressed she was with dd when this little boy had the same difficult period during the day and dd sat with him and spoke to him and reassured him saying that she understood and managed to calm him down completely in fact it moved the teacher to tears, so why couldn't she take that on? Anyway I went completely OT there - I apologise, anyway I am appalled that this is still going on and will fight corporal punishment tooth and nail.


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## TanyaS (Jun 24, 2003)

My son went to a small private school the last two years. There was a discipline statement that specifically said spanking would not occur. Imagine my surprise when I had to sign a form opting out of spanking when we made the switch to public school this year! I was really upset. The form specifically stated that most parents in the school district preferred spanking to suspension.







a) they see nothing wrong with it and b) suspension means they have to go to the trouble to take off work or find alternate child care for their child.

Unfortunately, I live in one of the states that hit over 20000 children last school year.


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## veronicalynne (Nov 4, 2006)

Now I am wondering if they schools are allowed to spank in Canada since I am Canadian...I cant seem to have any info on it. I am definitely NOT ok with schools doing that......

I know when I was about 6 being hit on the hand with a ruler but that was years ago...how many I will not say......


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## northcountrymamma (Feb 24, 2006)

According to the Natural Child Project....spanking is also allowable in Canada. I am speechless. This is simply disgusting. If my child were EVER to be hit at school I honestly do not know what I would do. All this two days before her first day of school. SHIT

*Section 43 of the Criminal Code of Canada
Protection of Persons in Authority, Correction of Child by Force:*

"Every schoolteacher, parent or person standing In the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child, as the case may be, who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances. R.S.C., 1985, C-46. "


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Wasn't this recently changed, removing this "right"?


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## lovin'leo (Feb 8, 2006)

Quote:

Corporal punishment is banned in 106 countries including Canada, where it was outlawed in 2004.
From that Globe & Mail article.


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## veronicalynne (Nov 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovin'leo* 
From that Globe & Mail article.

Which Globe and Mail article?


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## lovin'leo (Feb 8, 2006)

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...4&postcount=29


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

In January 2004, the Supreme Court of Canada decided that:

* schoolteachers may no longer use section 43 to justify physical punishment
* parents and persons acting in the place of parents may use physical punishment, but subject to the following conditions:
o the child is between 2 and 12 years of age,
o the child is capable of learning from the punishment,
o the force is minor and of a transitory and trifling nature,
o the punishment does not involve objects or blows or slaps to the head,
o the force is not degrading, inhuman or harmful, and
o the punishment is not the result of the caregiver's "frustration, loss of temper or abusive personality."
o The Supreme Court also ruled that the seriousness of the child's misbehaviour is not relevant in judging the "reasonableness" of the force used.

So yes, there is no spanking in schools in Canada


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## WeasleyMum (Feb 27, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Twinklefae* 
In January 2004, the Supreme Court of Canada decided that:

* schoolteachers may no longer use section 43 to justify physical punishment
* parents and persons acting in the place of parents may use physical punishment, but subject to the following conditions:
o the child is between 2 and 12 years of age,
o the child is capable of learning from the punishment,
o the force is minor and of a transitory and trifling nature,
o the punishment does not involve objects or blows or slaps to the head,
o the force is not degrading, inhuman or harmful, and
o the punishment is not the result of the caregiver's "frustration, loss of temper or abusive personality."
o The Supreme Court also ruled that the seriousness of the child's misbehaviour is not relevant in judging the "reasonableness" of the force used.

So yes, there is no spanking in schools in Canada

Man, they always seem to get ahead of us on stuff. Darn right-thinking Canadians with their non-child-abusing school districts, trying to make the US look bad again...

Yeah I'm going to homeschool someday. Not because of this per se, but then you never do know how other people are treating your kids.


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## veronicalynne (Nov 4, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *lovin'leo* 
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...4&postcount=29

Thanks


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## northcountrymamma (Feb 24, 2006)

Oh that is wonderful news...I was pretty upset when I read that on NCP earlier







: for Canada!


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## upto4 (May 26, 2008)

I was having a first look around the gentle discipline forum when I came across this. This is a subject that really makes me mad - my dh and I are raising his 13 year old nephew. He had been living with his mother in one of the states where corporal punishment is 'frequently' used. I don't know exactly how many times he was paddled, but it happened 'several' times. This is a kid who came from a house with a mother and stepfather who couldn't think of anything else to do with him but spank him either (and with a belt if sf felt like it).

The first time I heard that nephew had been paddled at school, the kid was no more than 7, I was horrified that it still happened at all. I had no idea. I feel like the school completely failed him and his needs. Everyone around him, everyone he should have been able to trust and feel safe with, just whacked him. Over the years dh couldn't stand it but he really didn't know what he could do about it because, for some obscene reason, it was perfectly legal in the eyes of the law (and perfectly deserved according to his mother and stepfather), he told nephew that if anyone ever left any marks or bruises that he should tell him and dh planned to raise he!!. That never happened (or nephew never told him anyway).

Nephew was never much of an innocent in all of this, he was paddled for things like climbing on the school roof, leaving the classroom through the window in the middle of class, breaking a ceiling fan, throwing things at teachers etc.... So he is a child with behavoral issues (maybe because no-one stopped to discipline him in between smacking him around???). But how was hitting him with a piece of wood ever going to teach him anything? Except for hate for the principals and for school itself.

Through a series of events recently he is now in our house (dh has been wanting to take him in for a long long time) and we're trying to pick up the pieces. He is a really really tough kid to parent and very challenging to us. Another thing that is tough is getting him to understand that he is safe with us, that we're not going to hit him when he misbehaves, and that his school isn't either. I think that he is a child who has been terribly let down by those who were meant to protect and teach him.

It really needs to be taken out of schools.

(Sorry, I didn't mean to write so much! If you made it this far through, congratulations!)


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## veganbaby (Oct 28, 2004)

Hi. Came across this while doing a search on Texas and spanking. I just started a group on facebook for Texans against spanking. I am in the research process right now and trying to gather articles on why I"m against spanking. PM me if you want the link to join!


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## Treasuremapper (Jul 4, 2004)

Several mamas, including myself, recently left a local Texas listserv over this issue. One mama out of several hundred was all in favor of spanking in schools and I could not stand to hear her advocating in favor of it. I want to enjoy my life, not hear advocacy of institutionalized child abuse.

That's basically it -- it's so disgusting that I don't even want to hear people's opinions justifying it. So please PM me with your fb link!


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## kindergirl77 (Jun 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *moon.mom* 
So spanking makes me sad and mad, too.








But just remember, it's been legal for a long time, and not likely to change.
(After all, the bible talks about it...)

(I consider myself a religious person- Unitarian Universalist- and I hope I don't sound condescending towards other religions...or political parties, for that matter...)

hi Moon.mom,

i'm not offended at all. there are quite a few Christians here that are against spanking and how its wrongly being justified by the bible, Please read the false doctrine of spanking.

It really boils my blood when Christians use the bible as an excuse to abuse children.

Here is another link to Christians for Non-Violent Parenting;
http://www.nospank.net/cnpindex.htm

Oh, and here is my favorite article about this!
http://www.nospank.net/bible1.htm

Quote:

Not only did he (Jesus) give children status as human beings, they were to be treated as human beings:

Whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it (Luke 18:17).
Whoever humbles himself like a child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven (Matt. 18:4).
Whoever receives a child [because of Jesus' commendation to children] receives [Jesus] (Matt. 18:5). On the other hand:
Whoever causes [a child to suffer or stumble or sin] it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea (Matt. 18:6).


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## Aliyahsmommy (Sep 9, 2008)

I just want to say that I would be appalled if a teacher ever hit my child. And despite my non-violent approach to parenting and life in general, it would probably be the first time I would ever punch/hurt someone. It is absolutely ridiculous that someone who does not have the love I have for my child to have the right to discipline her. Obviously the punishment would be worse coming from a stranger who's heart is not tied to the child as a parents is. I don't even spank my child let alone a stranger!


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## punkrawkmama27 (Aug 31, 2007)

: I cant even believe that! How would these kids even want to continue going to school? I remember when I was in school our principle was allowed to use a paddle in the boiler room. My parents told me if I acted up I he would do it to me too. I was so afraid of that man, I couldnt even talk to him when someone stole my purse at school. My parents always threatened that they would call him if I was naughty at school. Those poor children that have to go through that. I cant believe it.


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