# Covert Action (whipping babies)



## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Guess what? Did you know that you can go to the Pearls' website and request copies of their newsletter for free? And then you can throw them away/ burn them in your backyard!!

I requested 50 copies. Here's the form:
http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/index.php?id=31


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

By the way, this is a link to chapter one of their book with part of a letter I wrote to amazon.com:

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/fileadmi...ooks/TTUAC.pdf

This book reads like a child abuse instruction manual. They recommend "switching" babies as young as four months old. The first three words of chapter one are "Switch Your Children." On page 6 of chapter one, they recommend setting up situations where you know the child is going to disobey and then switching them for it. On page 7, they recommend pulling babies' hair. At the bottom of page 7, they say to place a bowl within a babies reach and then thump his hand whenever he touches it. On page 8, they recommend hitting a 10 month old with a switch when he doesn't go to the parent fast enough for their liking. Page 9, they say to hit a 5 month old on the bare legs with a switch. On page 10, he tells a story of a 12 month old that gets spanked 15 times in a row as an example of a good thing to do. Please stop offering this book on your website. I would appreciate a response.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I like the idea of draining their resources and wasting them, but I'm afraid it might get me on some sicko mailing list. uke

I hope Amazon responds to your letter.

ETA: How horrible; the one-year-old who was spanked 15 times was spanked for FACING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION???!!!


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## hotmamacita (Sep 25, 2002)

Can't one leave a book review on Amazon.com for that book? You could just review it so that others have a different perspective of the book. I find book reviews really helpful.


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## fourgrtkidos (Jan 6, 2004)

To play devil's advocate they say this is training, so the children will instantly obey for the child's safety in dangerous situations. They also say that the switching should not be done in anger or so hard to leave a mark, just a momentary sting. And they do this instead of spanking on the butt with your hand because, spanking onbutt with hand can cause spinal malalignment.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

And they also recommend switching your five month old. Did you read the chapter and/or my letter? They recommend spanking your 12 month old 15 times in a row...


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

This was amazon's response:

Thank you for writing to Amazon.com with your concerns about "To
Train Up A Child".

Please note that Amazon.com does not endorse any opinions expressed
by individual authors, musical artists, or filmmakers. As a
retailer, our goal is to provide customers with the broadest
selection possible so they can find, discover, and buy any title they
might be seeking. Therefore, the items offered on our web site
represent a wide spectrum of opinions on a variety of topics.

We value all feedback from our customers, and I thank you again for
taking the time to send us your comments about this issue.

Best regards,

Manish Kapur
Amazon.com Customer Service
http://www.amazon.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm off to post a book review.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

I wonder if Amazon sells stuff from the NAMBLA, who advocate sexual abuse of children (and teach ways to go about it).







I don't know if they write books, though. Do they sell books about how to make automatic weapons, hard drugs, bombs, etc.? I think they would not be able to sell books that teach how to do illegal things, and in most areas what the Pearls advocate is illegal. I think their letter is crap and they didn't read your letter very well at all.


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## Kinipela79 (Apr 8, 2003)

Greaseball - I know that a couple years ago, Amazon was selling a book about "young boy lovers" which was essentially how to molest young boys. We wrote a letter to complain but they didn't even respond back! You would THINK that a company would take some responsibility in matters such as abuse and the like but I guess the almighty dollar bill is more important??







:


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

I got a snotty letter about censorship and free speech when I complained about that one.


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## lovemybaby (Jun 29, 2003)

Good for you Phathui5 for ordering all those booklets from the Pearls to throw them away! I'd rip them to shreds first and stomp on them too









And shame on Amazon for their ignorant and insensitive replies! They dropped Home School Digest because they were advertising "The Rod" so it's not like they can't drop a book that is recommending USING "The Rod!" I'm going to write to them right now!

I wish I could make the "barf" icon work but I have Mozilla and it won't let me...


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## 5796 (Oct 19, 2002)

may I suggest a personal email to:

THE STOREKEEPER
COMPANY Amazon.com, Founder and CEO
NET WORTH $7 billion
AGE 35
EMAIL [email protected]
BIO If 1999 was the Year of E-commerce --and it was, oh, it was!--then the guy who built Amazon.com must be the year's prime mover. Fearless multibillionaire leader of the Web's biggest store.........


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## lovemybaby (Jun 29, 2003)

I requested 50 booklets from the Pearls - wonder if they'll catch on









Good idea to write to the CEO at Amazon - net worth $7 billion, huh? Sounds like he can afford to stop selling "To Train Up a Child"!


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## Dragonfly (Nov 27, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *fourgrtkidos*
To play devil's advocate they say this is training, so the children will instantly obey for the child's safety in dangerous situations.

Isn't it amazing that I was able to teach ds to be safe without abusing him...

Quote:

They also say that the switching should not be done in anger or so hard to leave a mark, just a momentary sting. And they do this instead of spanking on the butt with your hand because, spanking onbutt with hand can cause spinal malalignment.
Switching a child is inherently an angry act. It may not be the "boiling to the surface and exploding" kind of anger, but it's certainly the result of an underlying, unaddressed anger.

I didn't know that Amazon was carrying this crap. I just assumed that no legitimate bookseller would carry it and they were selling it through an independent distributor. Maybe this calls for a boycott. It would be nice if Mothering would list this as an action alert...

It's repulsive and doesn't deserve any advocacy, whatsoever.


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## chicagomom (Dec 24, 2002)

The idea of harming a child to keep him from greater harm is not new, but it's just as horrible now as it was back them.


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## fourgrtkidos (Jan 6, 2004)

Geeze, I didn't say I was advocating the Pearls or their ways. Sometimes I just like to point out that someone has good intentions and the way they are going about it is wrong.

Sorry.

I shouldn't have posted. I think you should be advocates for children and since these teachings can be construed as abuse, rally against them. I hope you do something about it. I wasn't trying to say you shouldn't.


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## roseselene (Aug 3, 2003)

ok, I must be a little behind because this is the first I've heard of this book or these people that advocate switching babies! I've heard of spanking toddlers or older children (which I don't advocate either) but BABIES? uke
That is just disgusting. I read some of the excerpt and the sad thing is, is that the way that it is written makes it "sound" so logical so that if someone was desperately searching for some parenting advice, they would probably think it sounds like a great idea. The part that made me really sick is the part that says that newborns are not to young to begin training








Scary.
Amy


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## sohj (Jan 14, 2003)

OK. I see a problem with this idea: _THEY ARE JUST GOING TO KEEP PRINTING MORE AND MORE OF THESE THINGS!_ You can burn them or mutilate them in any way you like, but the Pearls won't know! (This is like not voting as a political statement.)

What a waste of paper.









You want activism?

Gather a few dozen friends and find where the Pearls live and stark picketing their house, where they shop, their town hall, the offices of the printer, any churches that advocate the Pearls, parsonages of clergy who advocate the Pearls, etc. etc.

Burning the stuff might feel good viscerally, but it isn't doing anything except polluting the air.


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## Kinipela79 (Apr 8, 2003)

For those who may not have seen the link...here it is to Train Up a Child. Make sure a toilet is nearby for when you hurl!!

http://city.hokkai.or.jp/~repent/Eng...s/TrainUp.html


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Well that's depressing. I'd only read the first chapter. I need to go detox with Crystal Lutton's "Biblical Parenting" now.


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## manitoba_mommy (Jun 20, 2003)

Rather then just writing Amazon, could we write Amazon (I am thinking as many people as possible) while CCing as many media outfits as possible? I think they might be a little more likely to take it off of their web site if there is threat of media coverage if they don't.

I wonder if this is something a civil liberties group might want to take up....

MM


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## Hera (Feb 4, 2002)

Quote:

Picture a child of any age who is miserable, complaining, a bully to the other kids. When you look at him, all you can see is the inside of a bottom lip. Every device has failed to bring relief. The kid feels that he is living in foreign, occupied territory. He is obviously plotting the day of throwing off the yoke. Bribed, threatened or swatted, he only gets worse. Fail to use the rod on this child, and you are creating a '"Nazi." I still marvel at the power of the little rod. After a short explanation about bad attitudes and the need to love, patiently and calmly apply the rod to his back-side. Somehow, after eight or ten licks, the poison is transformed into gushing love and contentment. The world becomes a beautiful place. A brand new child emerges. It makes an adult stare at the rod in wonder, trying to see what magic is contained therein.

uke uke uke uke uke uke uke uke uke uke uke uke


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## JessicaS (Nov 18, 2001)

Oh gross!!


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## mommajubilee (Jan 9, 2004)

Quote:

they have no hope of conquering the child's will.

















why were we given free will then, if only to have it "conquered" by abusive parents? this is disgusting.


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## Kinipela79 (Apr 8, 2003)

mommajubilee - totally off topic but I see you are in Carmel!! I was born at Community Hospital of Montery and lived in the valley with my grandparents...they (well, my gpa...my gma passed away) still live there on Dorris Dr. by the Safeway! Maybe I'll see you sometime when I am down visiting!


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## Hera (Feb 4, 2002)

Good Grief! How about this one:

Quote:

Fathers, by the time the boys can follow you around, they should be "helping" you work. ... If you leave your sons for the women to rear, don't be surprised if at sixteen they act more like daughters. ... Where a working father leaves his boys with a flock of girls to be homeschooled by their mother, they often lack masculinity. Gender role distinction is demeaned in modern education. Don't let a coven of ********* and socialists, hiding behind the badge of professional psychologists, reprogram your natural feelings on male and female distinctiveness. A boy needs a man's example if he is expected to grow up to be a man.


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## mommajubilee (Jan 9, 2004)




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## Towerkel (Apr 20, 2003)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Hera*
Fathers, by the time the boys can follow you around, they should be "helping" you work. ... If you leave your sons for the women to rear, don't be surprised if at sixteen they act more like daughters. ... Where a working father leaves his boys with a flock of girls to be homeschooled by their mother, they often lack masculinity. Gender role distinction is demeaned in modern education. Don't let a coven of ********* and socialists, hiding behind the badge of professional psychologists, reprogram your natural feelings on male and female distinctiveness. A boy needs a man's example if he is expected to grow up to be a man.


I feel the last sentence is incomplete. They forgot the phrase "and beat his children" after "man".


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

while i don't agree with the Pearls at all, i find your "solution" extraordinarily wasteful.

yes... let's pollute the environment just to make ourselves feel better by burning or throwing away a whole bunch of stuff we wouldn't have even gotten had we not requested it.










if you really want to make a difference, why not start a letter writing campaign against them (again, probably, as i'm sure it won't be the first directed at them)?

requesting a bunch of stuff just to throw it away ~ yeah, _that'll show them_.


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

"requesting a bunch of stuff just to throw it away ~ yeah, that'll show them.

"

I know, I know. It's just so hard to read the crap on their site and not be able to do anything...

We could go by and egg their house. *kidding*


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## KoalaMama (Jan 24, 2004)

This is beyond disgusting. And what happens to these poor children when they grow up? Having been taught from infancy that you have no free will... The girls grow to be abused women, and the men grow to be abusers? What a prospect that future is! Oh those poor, poor children.


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *sohj*
Burning the stuff might feel good viscerally, but it isn't doing anything except polluting the air.

Well, and cut down trees










This isn't good activism imho. Activism works for change, this hurts the environment and doesn't change anything. Actually it might boost their stats and thus boost their "marketing power".


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## phathui5 (Jan 8, 2002)

Ok, ok. Going to go donate to some tree related people.


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

OMG phathui i LOVE your new sigline. SO true.


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## Rainbow (Nov 19, 2001)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *phathui5*
Ok, ok. Going to go donate to some tree related people.

:LOL

every dollar plants a tree at americanforest.org


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## Kinipela79 (Apr 8, 2003)

I had a funny (well, not funny...kind of frightening) conversation with another mother the other day. I was talking about my 8 month old still waking up a couple times a night to nurse and she started talking about Babywise so I said "NO WAY!!!!" and went on my tirade of anti babywise. And she looked like she was with me so I said, "Have you ever heard of To Train Up a Child??" and she said that a friend had given it to her and it really worked. I was in shock. I never thought I would come face to face with a....Pearlalite? Ha ha. She kept telling me stuff that she did and I just kept say "That's HORRIBLE" I felt bad that I kept saying that but it WAS!!!! She said that when her son (I think he's 3 1/2 now) went through a biting stage she put Tobasco sauce on his tongue and when they would nip her when nursing she pulled out a piece of hair. And she told me about how her dd was doing something "bad" and she had to keep spanking her over and over and over again. AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Thanks for letting me get that out! I didn't even know what to do. I just sat there kind of stupid like!


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## lovemybaby (Jun 29, 2003)

I actually thought it was a cool idea to send for a bunch of newsletters from the Pearls. I sent for 50. When they arrive, I can throw darts at them, rip them to shreds and put them in recycling. Then I'll write the Pearls again and say what I did and ask for more!









I'm sure they won't send me more, but I will have made my point. And if enough of us do this, it will make them really suspicious, cost them time and money, and maybe they won't push their newsletters so much anymore. Which could ultimately save trees

Anyway, I think it's the Pearls who are ruining the trees for evil purposes, not us. Disgusting people; they should be in jail









I read all the reviews on Amazon of "To Train Up a Child", and several mentioned getting into trouble with Child Protective Services from using the Pearl's methods!! I think I'll complain to Amazon again about this book; hmm...I wonder what would be a good organization to cc?


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## Aura_Kitten (Aug 13, 2002)

Quote:

when they would nip her when nursing she pulled out a piece of hair.















:





















:














uke


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## anazmommy (Nov 18, 2003)

This makes me sick














uke


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## cappuccinosmom (Dec 28, 2003)

She pulled *out* a piece of hair??????????????????? Nasty.

But I don't see how giving a tug on thier hair would be so awful. Ds chomped me all of three times, once so bad that I was in pain the rest of the day (all when he was 11 mo), and got a gentle pull each time.







: He didn't even flinch. He just stopped biting me and resumed nursing. I wasn't punishing him and I wasn't angry--just letting him associate biting with mild discomfort, as there is no real natural consequence for it. He thinks mommy removing him from the breast or saying ouch when he pokes and prods while nursing is just funny, so that wouldn't have worked. He's totally stopped biting now, but he's still a champ nurser. And to be honest, I'd rather have it this way than have the biting continue and build up resentment and fear of nursing him on my part. That would be far worse IMO than 1/2 second of discomfort for him to quit biting altogether.


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## Greaseball (Feb 1, 2002)

Well, it's with great shame that I say this - I actually tried pulling dd's hair when she started biting. It did not work at all. My thought was that she would associate biting with pain and also that it would cause her to cry which would make her open her mouth and release!

What happened instead was she associated nursing with pain. She went on a 3-day strike, during which I became painfully engorged. When she resumed nursing again, she continued to bite. She was about 10 mos old at the time and bit every day until about 16 months. This led to me cutting out certain feeding times and soon we were nursing only once a day. It was not a good experience, and I hope I can think of another way to stop biting with the new one.


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## Camellia (Jun 2, 2004)

Hi Greaseball,

I'm sorry to hear about your experience with dd. I can say with shame that I weaned ds at 14 months and then the next night used the ferber method to get him to sleep in his crib














I beat myself up over it often and just feel terribly. I'm glad I know more now and can do better by him and his sister.

Anyway, the reason I origanlly replied to your post was because I noticed we are both in Corvallis! I have never been anywhere on the web where I have found so many people from Corvallis. That says alot about our town to me that this is where I find so many of us!

Cheers,


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## Mom4tot (Apr 18, 2003)

Hera, the stuff you quoted is disgusting!!

Where do these evil people live?? I think terrorizing them (legally, of course) is a great idea. The thought of them making a cent off this crap makes me uke


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