# safety issues



## futurmama8 (Aug 15, 2008)

I have a friend with two children ages 26 months and 4 years. Neither is in a seat







. Their mom and grandmother have said at 2 they get rid of the car seats and just let them sit alone and I am so scared for them. She gives me an old convertible car seat for the baby but the 4 year has rode without a car seat since he was 2. She said he doesn't like it and I offered to buy her some but she just said no they are fine. She doesn't have the internet and I just need to show her how dangerous this as the baby sits on someones lap as they drive. What I need to know is:

1. What can I personally buy for them that is safe but not overly expensive?
2. What can I tell this woman about the dangers of this?
3. What if she doesn't take the car seats? I will leave them in my car for when they come with me if she doesn't.
4. What can I get for the 2 year old who is tall so that it will last them some years?
5. Is there any place I can get cheaper car seats?

Thank you


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Google your local SafeKids chapter: if there is a carseat check, the kids will likely leave in seats.

I'm assuming that these folks are not interested in best practice recommendations, so I'll be focusing on budget and ease of use. For the 4yo, assuming s/he is at least average size, you could get a highbacked Graco Turbobooster from albeebaby.com for $40. For the 2yo, you can get an Evenflo Chase for around $60.


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## bajamergrrl (Nov 24, 2008)

Do you think your friend might be receptive if you printed this out for her?http://www.aap.org/family/carseatguide.htm


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## rootzdawta (May 22, 2005)

I agree . . . a print out might be helpful. Maybe they just don't know how serious it is.


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## Youngfrankenstein (Jun 3, 2009)

I would not buy them a seat. I think giving them info is the best bet but you can't assume it will be responded to. Is CPS an option?


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## futurmama8 (Aug 15, 2008)

I will check those out chickabiddy








Thank you for that bajamergrrl. I will give this to her and ask later if she wants me to buy the seats.

Rootzdawta I really don't think they know how serious it is because their grandmother did the same thing for their mother. I really believe car seat safety should be pushed in low-income communities.

CPS is not an option because she isn't neglectful nor abusive, she just doesn't realize how freaking dangerous this can be. I want to show her pictures of the crazy things that can happen but I think me talking to her a little more will get her to change her mind.


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## Twinklefae (Dec 13, 2006)

Could you appeal to her financial sense? I've had success with a couple of people by pointing out how expensive tickets are... generally more than the cost of a seat. (At least here they are.)


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## bobandjess99 (Aug 1, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *futurmama8* 

CPS is not an option because she isn't neglectful nor abusive, she just doesn't realize how freaking dangerous this can be..

Actually, not using a carseat is not only illegal, but considered neglect, and is absolutely a CPS-reportable issue. She IS neglecting the health and safety of her children, period.


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## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

Should she get into a car crash, her children could die or be permenantly brain damaged. Chances are, they would not sustain such injuries if they were properly restrained in appropriate carseats. Therefore, these potential injuries are largely preventable. That *IS* child neglect!

I normally say "don't call CPS unless the children are in immediate physical danger." These kids are in physical danger every time she drives them somewhere.

If you've already tried to educate her, and she's won't listen, she might pay more attention if a CPS caseworker showed up at her door.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

I would try telling her that not using seats is officially neglectful before calling.


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## choli (Jun 20, 2002)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bobandjess99* 
Actually, not using a carseat is not only illegal, but considered neglect, and is absolutely a CPS-reportable issue. She IS neglecting the health and safety of her children, period.

That would be assuming that the OP lives in the USA. This is not the case universally.


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## AndrewsMother (Jul 30, 2007)

I purchased this seat for a friends 25 pound 3 year old. It lasts up to 80poinds.

Here are the seat belt laws for all states.


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## futurmama8 (Aug 15, 2008)

I understand that it is neglectful but I am not really CPS happy when she doesn't realize what can happen. I am trying to educate her and give her information so she can learn and pass this on. She is very young and is a great mother and she will do anything for them within her limits but this a cycle in her family and she doesn't know any better. So no I will not be calling cps.

Thanks Andrewsmother I think I may get that for both of the kids since the baby is almost 30 pounds. I really appreciate it.


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## tallulahma (Jun 16, 2006)

I would most definitely tell her flat out- its illegal, dangerous and if she got pulled over they could fine her and report her to cps!

I have an almost 4 year old and I cannot IMAGINE, her not being in a seat!!!!


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## AndrewsMother (Jul 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *futurmama8* 
I understand that it is neglectful but I am not really CPS happy when she doesn't realize what can happen. I am trying to educate her and give her information so she can learn and pass this on. She is very young and is a great mother and she will do anything for them within her limits but this a cycle in her family and she doesn't know any better. So no I will not be calling cps.

Thanks Andrewsmother I think I may get that for both of the kids since the baby is almost 30 pounds. I really appreciate it.

I actually paid $10 less as it was on sale and I had a 15% coupon. Why don't you ask around MDC, maybe someone has a coupon or two that they could spare.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

The harness in that seat only goes to 40lbs, just an fyi.


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## AndrewsMother (Jul 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *DahliaRW* 
The harness in that seat only goes to 40lbs, just an fyi.

A harness to 40# and a booster to 80# is better than bumping around on the back seat.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *AndrewsMother* 
A harness to 40# and a booster to 80# is better than bumping around on the back seat.

Yes, but the straps on that seat are also very short and the 4yo has probably outgrown it by height and it's not a good booster. There are better choices for not much more money.


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## futurmama8 (Aug 15, 2008)

what other seats do you suggest? I really think some kind of booster would be good for the 4yo boy, but which ones are good for him as he is tall and skinny. The baby girl is tall for her age but not too tall but very solid, probably about 30 pounds.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I am taking this seriously and plan to talk to her sunday about it when I go visit them.


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## Valid28 (Mar 4, 2007)

Maybe you could tell her that not only are her babies safer in a car seat but that she may be putting herself in danger of losing them if only temporarily to cps. Not saying it as a threat but what if she is pulled over by the police and they were to open a case on her. Let her know that it isn't worth the legal hassle if someone were to make this an issue. YKWIM. She may never buy into the safety aspect but the fear of big brother just might motivate her to change her stance on the issue. I hope you are able to convince her soon.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *futurmama8* 
what other seats do you suggest? I really think some kind of booster would be good for the 4yo boy, but which ones are good for him as he is tall and skinny. The baby girl is tall for her age but not too tall but very solid, probably about 30 pounds.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I am taking this seriously and plan to talk to her sunday about it when I go visit them.

Albeebaby has high-backed Graco Turboboosters for $40: they are a better choice for a 4yo than the Cosco HBB, since the 4yo will likely have outgrown the harness on the Cosco seat by height, and the Turbobooster is a MUCH better booster.

For the 2yo, an Evenflo Chase -- I don't have a specific site recommendation, but it's usually around $60. It also harnesses to 40#, but the harness measures 16.75" instead of 15" for the Cosco seat. The Chase also converts to a booster -- it's not a super booster, but it will do. Ideally, in 2 years or when she outgrows the harness, you can put her in the high-backed Turbobooster and get a cheap backless for the older boy, but the Chase as a booster is *definitely* better than nothing.


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## Lovemy3babies (Apr 23, 2007)

Your a good friend!

I cant believe some here would suggest calling CPS, possibly getting children taken away from their mother because of this. I think that IS abuse of the system. While there are children being beaten, abused sexually, starving and we are going to use the system because someone doesnt put their child in the proper restraint in the car? It is worse on those children to be taken from there mother then for them not to be in the proper seats, period.


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lovemy3babies* 
Your a good friend!

I cant believe some here would suggest calling CPS, possibly getting children taken away from their mother because of this. I think that IS abuse of the system. While there are children being beaten, abused sexually, starving and we are going to use the system because someone doesnt put their child in the proper restraint in the car? It is worse on those children to be taken from there mother then for them not to be in the proper seats, period.

I have yet to hear a CPS case where children were removed for not using car seats. Usually in safety issue cases like that they just make sure that the parent fixes the issue. It takes more than one report to get children removed, usually multiple and usually really severe.


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## Equuskia (Dec 16, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Lovemy3babies* 
Your a good friend!

I cant believe some here would suggest calling CPS, possibly getting children taken away from their mother because of this. I think that IS abuse of the system. While there are children being beaten, abused sexually, starving and we are going to use the system because someone doesnt put their child in the proper restraint in the car? *It is worse on those children to be taken from there mother then for them not to be in the proper seats, period.*

mmm...I guess while they don't get in an accident, that could be true. But I think calling CPS and having them make a visit is worth it to avoid having a small child suffering with a broken neck, or confined to a wheelchair for the rest of their lives or losing a sibling because of the willful negligence of their caretaker. These children are in *immediate danger* every time they ride in a car. And that is what CPS is there for, to help children in immediate danger. It has even been suggested here that 911 be called when seeing an unrestrained child in a car, because that is an emergency.


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## AndrewsMother (Jul 30, 2007)

CPS would rather help the friend get seats than take her children from her, but I would not call either if I had the power to help her. If after speaking to the friend and giving her seats she failed to use them I might call, but not because she has a lack of knowledge.


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## sapphire_chan (May 2, 2005)

What I don't get is why she threw away the car seats when they turned 2? Isn't that a total waste of money? I mean, I can see someone breaking the law to avoid spending more money, but breaking the law after they've already spent the money is just not sensible.


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## futurmama8 (Aug 15, 2008)

The thing is that she uses really..and I mean really old seats. Like early 90s that she picked up from a yard sell. She is very out of the loop when it comes to this and doesn't know and to be honest most low income people I know don't use proper restraints for their children. She really needs to be educated first and I really don't feel like I am doing her happy babies justice if I take them away from her mother.

What if she doesn't end up using the seats that I offer and I call cps, I honestly will feel like a horrible person if her babies get taken and she will know it was me who called







. I know that kids are more important but I am very loyal to people ya know?


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## triscuitsmom (Jan 11, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *futurmama8* 
What if she doesn't end up using the seats that I offer and I call cps, I honestly will feel like a horrible person if her babies get taken and she will know it was me who called







. I know that kids are more important but I am very loyal to people ya know?

Said as gently as possible







... How will you feel if she gets into an accident and you are left consoling her about the loss of one or both of her beloved babies? I would hate to be in your shoes... truly... I don't know how I would possibly make the call. I would have to look at whether I could know they were in an accident and feel like I had done everything in my power by offering seats and knowledge... or whether I'd have nagging thoughts that I could have done more.

Many







for you in this situation Mama.


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## queenjane (May 17, 2004)

I wouldnt call CPS. I would do my best to help educate the mom, but then i would let it go.

I dont know about other places, but around here, i doubt CPS would even investigate a "mom doesnt use carseats" call. I dont think that would even warrant a home visit. I would imagine many if not most of the people they see dont use carseats at all, dont use them properly, or have kids out of seats entirely once they are a few years old. I dont think it even rates on their radar.

You should have seen the seat i was forced to put my foster baby in when they came to take her away to relatives. I hope it wasnt expired, but the straps were really high, all twisted, it looked like crap (and i hear thats the norm)...no way would they even think to rearface her even though she was just a year old and 23 pounds.

I bet there are *foster* parents who ride around with kids in no carseats, unfortunately. Yes, the kids are in danger of dying if they get in an accident, but i think CPS would view this as having bigger fish to fry. If you DO decide to "call someone", you could call the police and say you saw someone driving on such and such street, here's the license number, two unrestrained small children in the car.

In the end though, i think you can only do so much. Maybe keep trying with the mom, from every angle you can think of (whether its the legal angle, the safety angle, the "but if theyre strapped in they cant get into trouble in the car" angle, whatever).

Good luck.


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## Honey693 (May 5, 2008)

As an alternative to calling CPS couldn't she just call the local police department and say she saw a car with the license plate "whatever" driving by and there were two very small children not in seats? Maybe a ticket and a lecture from a cop would scare the mom if nothing else is working.


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## an_aurora (Jun 2, 2006)

CPS won't take her kids away for not being in car seats, but they will at least contact the family and try to help them get seats.


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## Spirit Dancer (Dec 11, 2006)

I would NEVER call CPS if someone drove with their children unrestrained. I would definately seek to educate them though.
BTW, IN a number of states it is leagal for a 4 year old to sit with just a lap belt and no booster. But I agree, this is not very safe.


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## moaningminny (Dec 31, 2007)

Around here CPS generally doesn't deal with car seat issues - the police do. I have called the police about a neighbour who carried her baby in the front seat with her, and they were very good about the whole thing. They called the parents in, explained the situation to them and why it was dangerous and the parents are now using a carseat.

I debated about what to do, but when it came down to it I knew I would feel partially responsible if anything ever happened to the child.


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## futurmama8 (Aug 15, 2008)

She definitely wants carseats now!!

Can you tell me which seat is the best out of these three?

1. Graco high back turbobooster
2. Evenflo Big kid booster
3. cosco high back booster

Thanks


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

If those are the only options, I would do a turbobooster for the 4yo. But she will have to teach him how to sit properly in it all the time. The younger one cannot be in a belt positioning booster, so of those three the best option is the cosco. If she can spend a bit more, I'd really recommend looking at an Apex for the higher harness height.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *futurmama8* 
She definitely wants carseats now!!

Can you tell me which seat is the best out of these three?

1. Graco high back turbobooster
2. Evenflo Big kid booster
3. cosco high back booster

Thanks

Absolutely the turbobooster for the 4yo, but the 2yo needs a harnessed seat. The Evenflo Chase I recommended (twice) above is a harnessed seat with high slot straps (almost as high as the Apex) and a very low price. It turns into a booster when the harness is outgrown -- it's not the best booster or even close to it, but it is oodles better than nothing!


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## futurmama8 (Aug 15, 2008)

Thanks. Those three above were just for the 4 yo. How will she need to teach him to sit in it properly?

Thanks again chicabiddy


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Shoulder belt through the red belt guide, lap belt under booster arms (and make sure you put the screws in the armrests if you get the Turbobooster!) -- sometimes with new booster riders it's helpful to lock the shoulder belt to ensure proper positioning.


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## AndrewsMother (Jul 30, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *futurmama8* 
She definitely wants carseats now!!

Can you tell me which seat is the best out of these three?

1. Graco high back turbobooster
2. Evenflo Big kid booster
3. cosco high back booster

Thanks

I am happy for your friend, and her children!!!


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## DahliaRW (Apr 16, 2005)

Yeah, the 4yo will need to sit back and still so the seatbelt stays in proper position. Given that she needs a cheaper seat, and other high weight harnessing seats that convert to good boosters aren't an option, the turbo is a really good booster that will last a long time, versus the cosco one with a harness that he might already be too big for and it doesn't fit most kids well as a booster.


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## futurmama8 (Aug 15, 2008)

I know AM!!

I went to check some out today and the turbobooster seemed a little..cheap feeling. It really wiggled a lot and didn't seem sturdy but the evenflo big kid seemed pretty sturdy. Is the evenflo really bad?

How hard is the install for the turbobooster, evenflo big kid and the cosco seat? Do they switch between cars good?

thanks for all of your help. I am going to take them with me so they can pick the colors out themselves? The 4yo hasn't been in a seat for a couple years so I don't know how this will go over with him as he thinks carseats are for babies







.


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## chickabiddy (Jan 30, 2004)

Boosters wiggle. It feels strange to people who are used to harnessed seats, but they wiggle and it's okay.









The Evenflo Big Kid fits big kids better. It's usually not a great fit for a 4yo. Also, it doesn't have EPS foam in the headwings (at least most of them don't -- I don't know if any do). That's kind of a big deal because the EPS foam -- which is white and looks like styrofoam, not soft and cushy -- absorbs some of the energy in a crash. It's the stuff they use in bicycle helmets. Seats that don't have that foam transfer all the energy into the kid's head. That's usually not good.


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## octobermom (Aug 31, 2005)

We use a turbo booster for our 50lb 47inch 6.5 year old. It feels lighter because its jsut a booster and the back can be removed. Its a good seat go good rating and is super easy to use. There is no really install for a booster just put on seat position the head rest correctly and feed belt through top slot and over lap (under the seats arm rests). I think the Evenflo though will be fine. Though there customer service are a pain to work with if an issue comes up.

Deanna


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