# cio and potty training



## ebony_vbac (Jul 14, 2006)

you see i'm stressed right? omg i have so many problems with my 3yo. i woh part time nights so she has always been up later and sleeping later than other kids. like up at 11 am and sleep at 1 am. she has stopped napping since 2.5 years. at 33 mos i had another baby. she will not potty train. i gave up on the 3rd time i tried when she was 30 mos, but at 36 mos the ped said she needed to be trained cuz she wasnt goign to train herself. ive been tryiing for 6 weeks now and i think she's peed 7 times and pooped once i've been bribing her but i think shes tired of candy and stickers. i ask if she has no go qand she says no but pees in her pants 20 min later. is it possible shes not ready at 3 yrs? i want to send herto preschool but you have to be trained first.

also i know noone here does cio, but what would u do. she wont go to sleep at night, she stopped taking naps at 2.5 years. ladt night i was fighting w her to go to sleep from midnite to 3 am, then she woke up at 6 am, this happend for 2 days in a row. she asks for milk in a sipy cup but it jus sits there and spoils or she wastes it all over her bed . i have locked my bedroom door from the inside and locked the fridge but she goes downstairs and get my keys to open thee door! my key isnt on that ring anyway but she cries and beets on the door etc. i try to be patient and hug her and ask whats wrong but sje keep crying. dh spanks her wich solvs nothing i try to warn her daddy is going to spank you if u dont stop crying and go to ssleep. i dont know what todo short of medicating her

oh yeah, she now tells me when she pees in her pants or diaper or takes it off or whatever. this is progress right? before she would just wear a wet diaper for 12 hours with me chasing her around the house to try to take it off. should i just keep trying or wait till shes' 4 or something?


----------



## chfriend (Aug 29, 2002)

I really recommend reading "Sleepless in America." It sounds like you are in a wicked power struggle over sleep and pottying...pretty much the two things you cannot "make" your child do.

The book is full of ideas to de-escalate these sorts of struggles.


----------



## hippymomma69 (Feb 28, 2007)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
the ped said she needed to be trained cuz she wasnt goign to train herself.

well I can say this - your pediatrician is JUST WRONG. My DD was around 43 months when she PT - and when she was ready she pretty much did it herself with very few accidents -she still has the occassional accident but then that's normal up until 6 or 7

MANY kids don't PT until they are 4 - your pediatrician is adding to your stress for no reason. Just relax and keep offering her the potty in a low-key way and she will eventually decide she's ready.

Re: the sleep....I've noticed that it takes my DD about a week to get into a new sleep routine (like going to bed earlier) but if I'm consistent then eventually she gets it....so like if I want to move her bedtime to 7:30 I do her whole routine (bath, book, etc) and lay down at 7:30 with her...lights out, no getting out of bed - sometimes we sing a song or tell a story in the dark if she is having trouble settling down.

I read somewhere that it can take 20 minutes just for your child to relax enough to get into a sleep state....so usually the first 2 nights of the earlier bedtime are the worst - it can take over an hour to get to sleep. And sometimes I'll just bail and let her get up again for an hour, then try again. But if I keep working my way back, it eventually gets "set" at 7:30....I know it's pretty time intenstive but it's what works for us.

good luck mamma
peace,
robyn


----------



## Alyantavid (Sep 10, 2004)

My honest advice? Stop spanking her, stop pushing the potty training and relax. She will not be in diapers forever. She's 3. The harder you push her, the harder she'll push back. Like the pp said, you can't force sleeping or pottying.

The first thing I'd do after you just let go and let her do her thing for awhile is to establish some sleep routines. Is there a reason besides wasting that she can't have some milk?

Maybe after you and her get the sleep thing worked out, you can reintroduce the potty.

Good luck, you sound incredibly stressed out, understandably.


----------



## mavery (Jun 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chfriend* 
I really recommend reading "Sleepless in America." It sounds like you are in a wicked power struggle over sleep and pottying...pretty much the two things you cannot "make" your child do.

The book is full of ideas to de-escalate these sorts of struggles.









:

I just read it and it is actually very helpful. It's not that there's any dramatic secrets in there, but it really helps you shift your perspective and figure out simple steps to help them sleep without such a struggle.


----------



## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

First of all, I think your pediatrician is a moron and I doubt I'd trust anything he says after that. It's like saying if you sleep with your baby, they will never sleep alone. It's stupid. It's not like she's going to wear a diaper to high school. Ridiculous.

I don't have any sleep advice unfortunately. I agree that you need to put an end to the spanking, whatever it takes.


----------



## kkeris (Oct 15, 2005)

I dont have advice about the sleeping, but I want to say that your PD is WRONG about the pottying. Its plain ridiculous and laughable to say that you will have to train your child, because they WILL know what to do when they are ready- not just physically but mentally. At 3, I am sure she knows all about pottying there is to know- about urges, about going to to the potty to relieve herself, wiping, flushing, and how all adults do that and so on. And if she is not ready, forcing her will only turn her off further. Some kids refused to be trained because their diaper is the last link they have to that precious babyhood and they just arent ready to give that up; To us its just a diaper, to them it may mean alot more.

So imo, when she is ready, you'll know it. Just wait till she is.


----------



## rmzbm (Jul 8, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *SublimeBirthGirl* 
First of all, I think your pediatrician is a moron and I doubt I'd trust anything he says after that. It's like saying if you sleep with your baby, they will never sleep alone. It's stupid. It's not like she's going to wear a diaper to high school. Ridiculous.

I don't have any sleep advice unfortunately. I agree that you need to put an end to the spanking, whatever it takes.









:


----------



## theretohere (Nov 4, 2005)

mama. You sound very stressed!
I would relax about the potty training for now. She will do it when she is ready. Sleep changes are hard and best done gradually- it took time for things to reach the crisis point that they are at now and will take time to fix. Does she have a bed time ritual?


----------



## ebony_vbac (Jul 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *theretohere* 







mama. You sound very stressed!
I would relax about the potty training for now. She will do it when she is ready. Sleep changes are hard and best done gradually- it took time for things to reach the crisis point that they are at now and will take time to fix. Does she have a bed time ritual?

no bed time ritual at all. on mon wed and fri i dont get home till like midnite and i'm trying to catch up on everything i missed for the day. dh doesnt really parent her at all. maybe thats what i should try, some consistency


----------



## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

I agree with all the previous posters, but I also think it sounds like you all need a little help. While some of this including the potty issues sounds well within the range of normal for a 3yo, some of it might not be (the sleeplessness), and better to get a handle on it sooner rather than later. (A friend of mine finally got her son diagnosed at the age of 7 after many doctors with a melatonin deficiency. He wasn't sleeping and was out of control during the day. Now with melatonin supplementation he sleeps full nights and is doing so much better during the day) If letting go, and stopping spanking, really focusing on positive discipline doesn't produce a major change, perhaps you might consider getting a little help. You could take her to a developmental pediatrician or neuropsychologist who could evaluate for underlying issues. You could take her to an Occupational Therapist for a sensory eval. You and DH could get some help working on parenting style differences with a counselor (honestly, I think this discrepancy could be a major source of the problem). Or maybe you could find a counselor just help you manage some of this stress. You could work on nutrition- omegas come to mind. Good luck! Let us know how it goes.


----------



## DevaMajka (Jul 4, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kkeris* 
I dont have advice about the sleeping, but I want to say that your PD is WRONG about the pottying. Its plain ridiculous and laughable to say that you will have to train your child, because they WILL know what to do when they are ready- not just physically but mentally. At 3, I am sure she knows all about pottying there is to know- about urges, about going to to the potty to relieve herself, wiping, flushing, and how all adults do that and so on. And if she is not ready, forcing her will only turn her off further. Some kids refused to be trained because their diaper is the last link they have to that precious babyhood and they just arent ready to give that up; To us its just a diaper, to them it may mean alot more.

So imo, when she is ready, you'll know it. Just wait till she is.









I agree with that. The advice your ped gave is just silly. My ds was pt'ed for pee slightly before 3yo (I did a sticker chart, only because changing all those diapers was driving me crazy). He just started pooping in the potty, this last week. He's 3yo and 3 mos. We didn't push, except to tell him that the potty is the best place to poop but that he could poop in his diaper if he wanted.

As far as sleep, definitely stop spanking, and stop threatening her with dp spanking her. I can't see how spanking would make it easier to sleep anyways.
If you are concerned about wasting or spilling milk, would she take water instead? (better for her teeth anyways).
Are you laying down with her to help her sleep? There is no way my ds would be able to go to sleep without me right there with him (actually, he can pretty much only go to sleep nursing or laying on top of me. lol).
Also, maybe try reading some books before bed, to kinda set the mood- relax from the day, and have some connecting time with you before she's supposed to go to sleep.

My ds has a late bedtime too (we moved it earlier to 10pm. Used to be 2am!). When it's late, he gets his teeth brushed and jammies on. Then we go up to bed. I tell him he doesn't have to go to sleep, but we're going to at least lay down and relax. Sometimes he does say he's hungry or thirsty, and dp gets him something. But usually, after he lies down to relax, he gets sleepy. I think it helps that there isn't the DEMAND that he go to sleep, that would just cause performance anxiety







(ftr, I noticed that when he was much younger too.)


----------



## jillmamma (Apr 11, 2005)

You said your dh is not really involved at night. How early do you go into work? Would it be possible to have your dd fed her dinner, bathed, pj's on, brush teeth before you leave. Then all your dh would have to do is put her to bed at whatever time you determine is best. Maybe if you made it pretty easy on him, he would be willing to step up a bit more? I have done that to where I just put a kid movie on and dh sits at the computer on the couch next to the kids (with them all ready for bed), and they can watch it together till the kids fall asleep, then he just carries them up to bed.

Another thought...have you tried giving her milk in an insulated cup so that it lasts longer, then you sneak in later after she is asleep and stick it back in the fridge if she did not drink it all?

On the potty training, my ds was just like that at age 3, and at 3y9m when we went on vacation, he finally decided he wanted to use the potty regularly. For him, the key was liking to check out all the other different potties than what we had at home.







: Whatever, kid, but he finally did it! No amount of coercing, etc. worked before HE decided he wanted to go. I am at the same stage now with DD...she knows HOW to go (needs help just because she is so short and little yet), but has not decided to just do it regularly on her own.

I hope you can find a good solution so your stress level goes down. Parenting little ones can be really tough!


----------



## SublimeBirthGirl (Sep 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
no bed time ritual at all. on mon wed and fri i dont get home till like midnite and i'm trying to catch up on everything i missed for the day. dh doesnt really parent her at all. maybe thats what i should try, some consistency

A night time ritual has been crucial with my 2nd. Definitely a good first step!


----------



## Ruthla (Jun 2, 2004)

I think your pediatrician is just plain WRONG about "if she hasn't trained by now, she never will."

One of my DDs didn't train until almost 4 years of age- she just wasnt' ready before then, for whatever reasons. You can't win a power struggle with a child over toileting- no question, the child will win. The only way to "win" is not to engage. I remember holding DD over the toilet while she sat there holding it in- to later pee in her diaper.

Back off the toileting for a few months, and revisit it when you can be less emotional about it. In the meantime, work on the bedtime issues- she may be less oppositional about the the toileting when she's getting enough sleep.


----------



## renabe (Feb 3, 2007)

Number one most important thing is no more hitting. You must not allow your partner to hit your daughter. Let her know you are both going to find some more helpful ways of working together to get the sleep you need at night and let him know if he can't stop hitting her he will be seeking help for his problem. Don't threaten her with him hitting her, threaten him not to hit her again. It does not work. It is hurting her. It teaches her that it is acceptable for people to use physical violence to get their way. Bad news.
The good news is, things can get better right away.
I agree with all the PT advice (though we were diaper free so I can't speak from experience). Isn't that nice, you just get to cross that anxiety off your list! Just diaper her until she's ready, it will happen sooner than you will believe. And you'll never remember how much work you did once she's in college. And similar with the sleep issue-the more pressure you put on her, the harder it will be for her to sleep. With the milk-try just bringing it to her in an open cup, have her drink what she wants, then put it away. Do that one time when she asks for milk from bed. What works for us at bedtime: At least 3 stories, hell or high water, no matter what. Sometimes I am half asleep while finishing, but it's something we both know is happening and we can count on it. Then as I'm saying goodnight and leaving I ask if she needs anything: books to look at in bed, a stuffed animal, a drink, or blankets are options. This has been helpful because it has eliminated the running back and forth for all the different needs she can think of as she lays awake in bed. She has a chance to get what she needs, then it's goodnight. When she fusses or stays up late I just repeat the options. Good luck, mama, a lot of us have been there too and if we support each other things are getting better and better all the time.


----------



## ebony_vbac (Jul 14, 2006)

Quote:


If you are concerned about wasting or spilling milk, would she take water instead? (better for her teeth anyways).
Are you laying down with her to help her sleep? There is no way my ds would be able to go to sleep without me right there with him (actually, he can pretty much only go to sleep nursing or laying on top of me. lol).
Also, maybe try reading some books before bed, to kinda set the mood- relax from the day, and have some connecting time with you before she's supposed to go to sleep.

.)
i've given her milk in an open cup, someone here suggested but she doesnt want that cuz she cant lay down and drink it. ive given her water, when we were out of milk but she didnt want that either.

i couldnt even imagine lying down with her. she would never go to sleep. we didnt have heat for 4 months and it got really cold one night she had to sleep in our room. but i guess she did go to sleep. i dont know what my point is but she has her own room so it seems weird for me to go in there to lay down with her. if she got used to it i'd be doing it every night. but i'm going to try to get a routine going. tonight we took a bath together, read 2 books and snacked on yogurt before bed time, she still didint want to go to bed but she didnt fight as much. i think i'll tell her 1 hour before betime that bettime is in one hour, set the timer, and when it goes off get in bed, during the hour she can take a bath, have a snack, and we can read some books. i'be been basically neglecting her since i had the baby


----------



## ebony_vbac (Jul 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jillmamma* 
You said your dh is not really involved at night. How early do you go into work? Would it be possible to have your dd fed her dinner, bathed, pj's on, brush teeth before you leave. Then all your dh would have to do is put her to bed at whatever time you determine is best. Maybe if you made it pretty easy on him, he would be willing to step up a bit more? I have done that to where I just put a kid movie on and dh sits at the computer on the couch next to the kids (with them all ready for bed), and they can watch it together till the kids fall asleep, then he just carries them up to bed.









i work from 4pm to 11pm dh works all kinds of hours, like tonite he works from 8pm to 5am. dh really sleeps and works. yesterday he slept 12 hours. probably dont sleep 12 hours ina week







:


----------



## crb (Aug 22, 2005)

It sounds like all of you are really stressed out! I just wouldn't worry about the potty for now. Maybe your dd is staying awake and not able to sleep because she wants to be with you. You are so important to her! She loves you so much! She wants to please you and she wants you to be with her as much as possible. Sounds like you are spending some nice time with her now before bedtime, which will hopefully help her ease into the separation from you to sleep. Maybe she is staying awake to "wait" for your time and attention in the best way she knows how? I would probably try to give her extra time with you and even snuggle with her until she falls asleep if you can. I know it feels like it will go on forever or it is a bad "habit" to start, but sometimes children just need you to be really with them for a bit and then they feel that connection and don't need as much reassurance. Hang in there - Three can be tough!


----------



## PikkuMyy (Mar 26, 2004)

I work in early intervention providing therapy and supervising therapy programs for children around your DD's age. I've worked with many children both with special needs and without and your daughter sounds completely typical to me. Her reactions to what is happening in her environment are very appropriate. So please don't worry that there is something "wrong" with her or that she needs medication. I do see several things that the adults in her life can do.

1. No more spanking. Period.

2. Don't worry about the toileting now. I don't see how it can be successful until her life is more consistent and the adults in her life are more consistent.

3. Establish a simple bedtime routine that occurs each evening no matter who is there. If you need to, make a little picture schedule for your DD that shows the order that things will happen before sleeping. You can laminate the photos and put some velcro on the back so you can change the photo of the adult who will be with her, etc. But keep everything as consistent as possible.

4. She is trying to get in because every kid I know who wakes up in the middle of the night needs comforting from his/her caretakers. Young or old.

5. I would lie down with her at night if that's what she needs to get to sleep right now. Put it on the schedule. Talk to her about what that means. No talking, playing, etc. You just lie down. When she tries to engage you, you keep it simple, "It's time to rest. I'm resting." and close your eyes.

6. Think of a good "wake up in the middle of the night" routine that you do with her if she wakes up too early or in the middle of the night. Stuff like: get a drink of water, rearrange pillow and blanket, make sure stuffed animals are comfy, snuggle back in with a board book she can read herself.

7. Who is with her from 8 pm to 11 pm if you are working 4-11 and your DH is working 8-5 am?

8. I would get all of this under control before thinking about pottying, because that requires real discipline and consistency on your part to help her learn to be consistent. You'll need things like figuring out when her patterns of BM and pee are so you'll know when to take her to get her successful. You'll need to stop asking if she needs to go before she's trained, because of course she'll say no and use the diaper. You'll need to make using the toilet part of routines, like after dinner, before bed, before going out, and make sure that she's not the only one using the toilet then - you can go to, or have her favorite stuffed animal go first.

I'm sorry that you are so overwhelmed and that your husband is not really a part of the parenting. But maybe it would really help him to start becoming part of it if there were routines for him to follow too.


----------



## mezzaluna (Jun 8, 2004)

pikkumyy said it all perfectly!

i bet she could potty train now if everything else were in place... but the resistance to that and to sleep sounds like symptoms of a life really out of balance. start to work on the root causes and i think these things will fall into place.

i'll 3rd the recommendation for sleepless in america - her sleep sounds pretty out of whack, and it's so important for behavior, especially at this age where they don't have much inhibition to keep negative behaviors tamped down when they are tired/hungry/lonely.


----------



## mommy2AandZ (Feb 12, 2007)

IMO your power struggle at night time is because she is OVER tired... way overtired. If she isn't napping she probably needs around 12 hours of sleep at night. 1am-11am is only 10. I recommend some of the sleep books already recommended by the other people. I think if you get her well rested night time will go so much smoother, without the struggles.


----------



## SevenVeils (Aug 28, 2006)

Cloth diapers, if you are using disposables. Use prefolds or fitteds with no cover around the house so she can feel when she is wet, it gets chilly and uncomfy pretty quickly. Also, change her every time as soon as she is soiled or wet. Using no covers will enable you to feel when she needs it right away too.

No more spanking. Ever.

No more threatening her with spanking.

Stop locking the baby out of your bedroom. I hope that I misread that. That is a terrible thing to do to her.

Let her set her own schedule as far as bedtime and pottying. Follow her lead.


----------



## ebony_vbac (Jul 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *skyastara* 
Cloth diapers, if you are using disposables. Use prefolds or fitteds with no cover around the house so she can feel when she is wet, it gets chilly and uncomfy pretty quickly. Also, change her every time as soon as she is soiled or wet. Using no covers will enable you to feel when she needs it right away too.

No more spanking. Ever.

No more threatening her with spanking.

Stop locking the baby out of your bedroom. I hope that I misread that. That is a terrible thing to do to her.

Let her set her own schedule as far as bedtime and pottying. Follow her lead.

she doesnt care when shes wet. i just switched to cloth. i have 6 training pants 2 prefolds 1 pocket and a cover all courtesy of miracle diapers. today she pulled down a wet diaper wiped it and pulled it back up so felling wet means nothing to her

she used to have a baby gate in front of her room, my step son broke it plus i thought at 3 shes too old for a gate and i didnt want ti treat her like a baby, i lock my door cuz otherwise shell be in my room avoiding sleep.

if i let her set her own sleep schedule she go to bed at 6am if ever, someone else just said she needs 12 hours of sleep a day


----------



## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

I agree with 12 hours + per night minimum of sleep. At 3 I think most kids need closer to 13 hrs per day of sleep including nap. Most 3 yr olds also really need a nap or they will be overtired and sleep less. Try to get her napping. Even if she doesn't nap, a short rest time will do wonders. Create a pleasant bedtime/naptime routine, and lay with her! Really the laying with her won't last forever, but it will help her to feel safe, secure, and connected and end the sleep battles. It will be easier for you too! It will help her get into a healthy sleep rhythm and you can wean her to fall asleep by herself gradually as she gets older. Three is awfully young to expect her to fall asleep by herself. She is not avoiding sleep when she tries to come to you. She just wants to be with you. So be with her while she falls asleep. At least give it a try for a week and see what happens.


----------



## Cutie Patootie (Feb 29, 2004)

I really think it all comes down to consistency. I'm talking rigid consistency for a good couple of weeks. Not forever, just until she really starts to feel comfortable knowing what comes next. 11:45pm snack(avoid anything w/sugar, includes juice)...Midnight bath, 12:30 brush teeth...12:40 book or two...1am light off. Every single night. I know it sounds crazy and confining, but just until she's really in a routine.

I would lay down with her. I know you don't want to do that, but it won't be forever. The first few nights it might take her forever to fall asleep, but it will shorten with consistency. Tell her once it's time for sleeping, then don't say anymore. If she gets up, don't say anything, just get up and put her back in bed. over and over and over again. Never escalate, don't threaten...be calm and breath.







If she gets up in the middle of the night, lead her back to her room the same as you did when putting her to bed. Consistency is soooooo tiring. I know.















My 2yo dd was







:. Let the pottying go for now.
I know you are tired mama.







Keep going.







:

Please don't spank her or let your dh do it. And please, don't lock you little one out of your room. I'm not sure which is worse.







:


----------



## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)




----------



## GuildJenn (Jan 10, 2007)

What I have to add is remember that your daughter is not the enemy. She's just young and possibly overtired and overwhelmed too. It sounds to me like she is struggling for a connection with you. GL.


----------



## treqi (Dec 31, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PikkuMyy* 
4. She is trying to get in because every kid I know who wakes up in the middle of the night needs comforting from his/her caretakers. Young or old.

Definatly I never stopped going into my parents room when I needed night comforting even at 16 I would have a horrible dream and wake up go get my dad he would bring me a glass of water sing me a song and I would be asleep in 5 minutes whereas had their door been locked even at 16 I would have felt very alone and scared and would have probably fallen asleep hours later and would've had a horrible next day....... IMHO thats pretty cruel your 3yo needs you....


----------



## happyhippiemama (Apr 1, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
i lock my door cuz otherwise shell be in my room avoiding sleep.











She'll be in your room trying to find a place to feel safe and loved and near her momma so she _can gently fall_ asleep.

I think you're attributing too much manipulation and control ability to your sleepy child.


----------



## ebony_vbac (Jul 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *harmonymama* 
I agree with 12 hours + per night minimum of sleep. At 3 I think most kids need closer to 13 hrs per day of sleep including nap. Most 3 yr olds also really need a nap or they will be overtired and sleep less. Try to get her napping. Even if she doesn't nap, a short rest time will do wonders. Create a pleasant bedtime/naptime routine, and lay with her! Really the laying with her won't last forever, but it will help her to feel safe, secure, and connected and end the sleep battles. It will be easier for you too! It will help her get into a healthy sleep rhythm and you can wean her to fall asleep by herself gradually as she gets older. Three is awfully young to expect her to fall asleep by herself. She is not avoiding sleep when she tries to come to you. She just wants to be with you. So be with her while she falls asleep. At least give it a try for a week and see what happens.

why is 3 young for her to fall asleep by herself when she's been doing it since she was 4 months? basically this all started when i had the baby


----------



## ebony_vbac (Jul 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *happyhippiemama* 









She'll be in your room trying to find a place to feel safe and loved and near her momma so she _can gently fall_ asleep.

I think you're attributing too much manipulation and control ability to your sleepy child.

i get the impression that you guys think she used to sleep with me and i kicked her out. she hasnt slept in my room, in a crib since she was 4 months. dh really doesnt believe in co sleeping and i cant see how its done witha toddler anyhows. its such a struggle fighting with hime to let the baby sleep with us. we had to sidecar a crib for when he's home and the baby sleeps on my chest when he's not here workig over night, but dd1 only slept in our bed/ in our room till she was 4 months old


----------



## ebony_vbac (Jul 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *harmonymama* 
I agree with 12 hours + per night minimum of sleep. At 3 I think most kids need closer to 13 hrs per day of sleep including nap. Most 3 yr olds also really need a nap or they will be overtired and sleep less. Try to get her napping. Even if she doesn't nap, a short rest time will do wonders. Create a pleasant bedtime/naptime routine, and lay with her! Really the laying with her won't last forever, but it will help her to feel safe, secure, and connected and end the sleep battles. It will be easier for you too! It will help her get into a healthy sleep rhythm and you can wean her to fall asleep by herself gradually as she gets older. Three is awfully young to expect her to fall asleep by herself. She is not avoiding sleep when she tries to come to you. She just wants to be with you. So be with her while she falls asleep. At least give it a try for a week and see what happens.

i did lay with her in her bed yesterday and today, but kim dh was not at home. she went to sleep earlier i guess but still not at the time she was supposed to. plus i have to leave the baby in my room to do this unless i make the step kids stay up to watch her, so if the baby gets hungry this is not a possiblity and tonight the baby woke up about 5 min after kissa went to sleep i was surprised her crying didnt wake her sister up


----------



## tessamami (Mar 11, 2002)

and I can see that your sense of peace will be much improved if your 3 year old sleeps at night. That said, I have to say that even babies who have never slept with their parents, get older, can get out of bed, and come to find mom and dad. And it is because they can't put themselves to sleep, and they are absolutely lonely and scared. And locking her out I hope will never happen again. What if, God forbid, there was a fire? And she couldn't get to you? Or if she became ill? Choked on her own vomit, 'cause she was so scared and upset?

Listen, when you know better, you DO better.

As for the potty training, it is DEFINITELY linked to the new baby. It's too bad she didn't train before the baby was born. You have a girl, right? Many girls are trained before 3. It's not too late, but you really have to ignore her when she says that she doesn't have to go. My DD always said this, and I just put her on the potty anyway. Always took her to the bathroom whenever I went. I wouldn't fight about it, but I'd put her on the potty whenever I could. And you might leave her without any diaper when you are up with her, so you can see when she does the pee pee dance. Amusing story: my DD went diaperless a LOT, and one day she pooped on the floor. I cleaned it up, but SHE was freaked. Anyway, I just repeated broken record-like. Next time we'll poop in the potty, I wouldn't lose it and freak out like her. . . .

I think that you really have to give up on the idea that she should just go to sleep by herself. It's not something that she can really help. I really think that you have to give up on having smooth bedtimes. And just when you have completely given up, it WILL get better.


----------



## shayinme (Jan 2, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
why is 3 young for her to fall asleep by herself when she's been doing it since she was 4 months? basically this all started when i had the baby

My guess is that with the new baby around she is wanting more connection with you and that's why she is reaching out to you at night. My eldest always slept on his own so I hear what you are saying but I suspect having a new baby in the house means she is getting less of you so that is what is in need of.

I find that my 2 yo clings to me when I am mentally less available, the only way I find to deal with that clinginess is to create more connection. I can only imagine that it must be hard to juggle the demands of a toddler and a infant. Maybe you can create some one on one time with her when the baby is sleeping.

Shay


----------



## harmonymama (Feb 4, 2005)

ebony_vbac,







Hang in there! I just wanted you to know I've been in your shoes, my DS had a really hard time when the new baby was born, and would not stay out of our room when I was trying to get the baby down for naps. Sometimes I got so mad, though I am not proud of it, I yelled more than once, "Get out, back to your room!" I was even known to lock the door on occasion, when I figured that was better than me yelling, but there are better ways... and I really wish I had found a way to use them more at that time. This is not just about getting your DD to sleep. It will also affect her relationship with her younger sib for years to come, and her relationship with you, and her place in your family. Nurse the baby in bed next to DD if you need to. If you don't want her in your bed, do it in her bed, and then get up when she is asleep.

I agree with one of the PPers. Consistency is the key! Don't make up your mind about anything in a day. Make a plan/routines that seems right for your family and commit to sticking with it for at least 1-2 weeks to see if you DD can start sleeping better. At that point decide if it worked or not. Kids take time to adjust to new routines. Good luck! You sound like a really caring, loving mama!


----------



## alexysmommy (Mar 9, 2005)

another thing with the pottying, dont ask her if she has to go. Just take her, and calmly tell her, its time to potty now. Put it in her routine, she will soon realize she has to sit on the potty even if she doesnt go. Make a huge deal out of it the first couple times she does go, so she can see that it pleases you for her to potty, it may help her continue to do it.

You say you dont want to have to lay down with her to get her to go to sleep, but maybe if you try it and it works, it will be less stressful to lay down with her and get her to actually sleep, then to be up after her all night long. You may want to just try it, and see if it works.

i was where you are with my dd, (well i didnt lock her out of my room) but she would NOT go to sleep at night. Finally i gave in, and started rocking her every single night, and softly singing to her, and now it takes 5 min to get her to sleep, i put her in her or my bed, and that is it. MUCH less stressful than fighting with her every single night. I also agree with the previous posters...sometimes a nice routine will really make a huge difference and bewhat you need. Good luck mama, it is going to be hard but obviously you are trying to fix this problem now which will be good for all of you.


----------



## MtBikeLover (Jun 30, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
she has her own room so it seems weird for me to go in there to lay down with her. if she got used to it i'd be doing it every night.

I just wanted to respond to this - so what if you do it every night? Laying down with my kids is a great time to re-connect with them and have some calm, quiet, loving, alone time with them. And I would rather spend 15 minutes laying with them getting them to sleep then spend 2-3 hours of fighting with them trying to get them to go to sleep by themselves.

Your daughter probably needs some alone time with you and this might be a way to give it to her.


----------



## ebony_vbac (Jul 14, 2006)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexysmommy* 
another thing with the pottying, dont ask her if she has to go. Just take her, and calmly tell her, its time to potty now. Put it in her routine, she will soon realize she has to sit on the potty even if she doesnt go. Make a huge deal out of it the first couple times she does go, so she can see that it pleases you for her to potty, it may help her continue to do it.

.

i've tried that. when she was 18 and 24 mos. i think shes just bored with the potty and not interested. i've stopped trying and life is better. i just dont know what to do about diapers cuz i reaqlly dont want to use sposies


----------



## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
why is 3 young for her to fall asleep by herself when she's been doing it since she was 4 months? basically this all started when i had the baby

Ding ding ding...I think you have just identified your own problem...she is clearly feeling sad about being replaced by the baby and needs to regress a little...no?

Try putting yourself in her shoes. Before, she fell asleep peacefully knowing she would be the center of your entires family's attention and love forever and ever...now there's someone else pinching half your love from her...it's a BIG adjustment.

Try giving her the time and comfort and safety to work through this big change, too.

You are not the only one whose life got turned upside down when you had a new baby...hers did, too. That could be really scarey to digest when you are three, no?


----------



## alexysmommy (Mar 9, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *ebony_vbac* 
i've tried that. when she was 18 and 24 mos. i think shes just bored with the potty and not interested. i've stopped trying and life is better.

trying not to sound snarky...but if it was so much better, i doubt youd be posting here about potty training. And a lot can happen in a year, kids mature a lot in that time. It may be time to start doing it again. You say you keep asking her...i am just saying maybe you need to stop asking and just put her on the pot and see what happens.


----------



## crb (Aug 22, 2005)

I don't think now is the time for any forcing or "you WILL use the potty" attitude - you have a lot going on!

Quote:

basically this all started when i had the baby
Ahh, I see. I will tell you, it took AT LEAST 6 months, maybe even a year for dd to really readjust after ds was born. This is a really big deal in her life! Not that it is bad - now my dd loves her brother - but it did take a lot of time and a lot of reassurance and patience - and I wish that I had given her even more - it is so hard when you are tired yourself to meet the needs of your child - especially as the older one looks so big and independent compared to a new baby.
I think she really does want you and wants to connect and be with you, even if she never seemed "needy" before, her current behavior says she is needing something from you now. Be gentle mama - with your daughter and yourself.


----------



## alexysmommy (Mar 9, 2005)

i am not saying to force it, but if she is going to all the trouble to ask her constantly if she has to go, it is easier on everyone if you just put her on the potty instead of asking.


----------



## hakeber (Aug 3, 2005)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *alexysmommy* 
i am not saying to force it, but if she is going to all the trouble to ask her constantly if she has to go, it is easier on everyone if you just put her on the potty instead of asking.

I have to say this is REALLY working with DS (he's 2 and 7 months or so). We spent lots of time chatting on the potty. Just sitting on the potty reading stories, and everytime he went it was a HUGE deal...big kisses and hugs.

Now he is even going standing up, which is pretty cool.


----------



## swampangel (Feb 10, 2007)

I haven't read this entire thread, but I think getting into any kind of power struggle over the potty can get you nowhere very quickly. There are two things that your child has total control over no matter what you do: eating and where/when they pee and poop.

My ds was pretty late in potty training but when he did it, he did it completely. No accidents, no hassles, no problem. I fell into the trap of trying to "potty train" and I was quickly met with resistance. Personally, I think it's best to follow a child's lead on this one...if they show an interest, make the potty available (with a chair or seat for the big potty) and let them do the rest.


----------



## GradysMom (Jan 7, 2007)

deleted


----------

