# January 2012 Whatever Ladies Are All Done Having Their Babies!



## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Member List:

lyeterae ~ Baby boy born February 2011
annie ~ Baby girl born April 7, 2011
Barefootscientist ~ Baby boy born May 30, 2011
AnnieA (due 7/18) ~ Baby girl born July 17, 2011
MarineWife (due 7/30) ~ Baby boy born July 25, 2011
Baby_Cakes (due 8/16) ~ Baby boy born August 16, 2011
MovingMomma (due 8/9) ~ Baby girl born August 18, 2011
akind1 (due 9/28) ~ Baby girl born October 11, 2011
mom2one (due 10/23) ~ Baby boy born October 21, 2011
jeninejessica (due 12/10) ~ Baby girl born November 29, 2011
Kindermama (due 1/6) ~ Baby boy born January 1, 2012

Here is the January 2012 Pregnant thread:

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1340508/january-2012-whatever-ladies-having-babies-waiting-on-the-last-one#post_16809188

Here is last month's thread:

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1337786/december-2011-whatever-ladies-having-babies-we-are-down-to-one


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Can you believe we've all had our babies?! And a New Year's baby, too. How fun!

We had almost 50/50 boys and girls. There's one more boy but that's because we have an odd number in our group. How cool is that?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I can't believe we made it to LwAB!! Yay for us! We've all been together since CTA, right?

Am I reading the title of our thread wrong? Isn't it 2012? Or is it b/c we started in '10? When did we all start our whatevering? I forget.

Kinder - gorgeous!! I think that nursing is normal. Bring that milk in, baby!! Such a sweetheart. Enjoy your babymoon!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ugh! Carrie. It's a typo. I tried to edit the title but can't find how. Used to be when you went to "edit" you could choose Advanced or something like that to edit the title but I can't find that anymore and I don't know what else to do. Do you know how to change it?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

hmm , everytime i start a thread, theres been an option to edit title up at the top. its not there? lol. nbd. glad im not crazy.

oh, do u still use the milksavers? i was thinking of getting them, but not sure i leak enough anymore. i still need pads, but idk if its worth it.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Yay kinder for a fast delivery of baby Everest!

I never was in CTA group. We did CTA for prob 6 months before whatevering. But weren't strict, bc e were open to close spacing. This time we are not, and I haven't anything to chart anyway, so it's just condoms for now, though I am seriously considering Mirena.

Wore Gabe in the Boba today for the first time on ages! He is wanting to be carried so much, and that is exhausting. So I dug out our Boba. He tolerated it better than I thought he would.

Hope everyone had a great new Year's! I am so looking forward to watching our babies grow his year!


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)




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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

i found it. there's an "edit thread" button above the title. i was trying to edit through the first post.

carrie ~ i do not use my milksaver anymore. i'm still leaking enough to need pads but it's not enough to make an effort to collect. if i use it every time i nurse, i might get an ounce a day. not worth the effort to me. if you'd like, i'll send you mine and you can try it. i've been meaning to find someone to pass it on to, anyway. although, don't you have a pump?

one of these days i'll have time to post about D's sleeping lately. it's really quite amazing.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Wore Gabe in the Boba today for the first time on ages! He is wanting to be carried so much, and that is exhausting. So I dug out our Boba. He tolerated it better than I thought he would.
> 
> Hope everyone had a great new Year's! I am so looking forward to watching our babies grow his year!


Nice using it for Gabe! What's the weight limit on it? I could go look it up I suppose. I bet Nora could still ride. She's only 33 lbs.

I'm looking fwd to seeing all the babies grow too!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> i found it. there's an "edit thread" button above the title. i was trying to edit through the first post.
> carrie ~ i do not use my milksaver anymore. i'm still leaking enough to need pads but it's not enough to make an effort to collect. if i use it every time i nurse, i might get an ounce a day. not worth the effort to me. if you'd like, i'll send you mine and you can try it. i've been meaning to find someone to pass it on to, anyway. although, don't you have a pump?
> one of these days i'll have time to post about D's sleeping lately. it's really quite amazing.


That's what I was thinking, that I don't need every little ounce. I pump sporadically, but get plenty when I pump. I have a pretty decent stash, and haven't needed to use it. I'm hoping soon DH and I can ask the ILS to babysit both kids, and we can get a late lunch/early dinner. I would love that.

I want to hear about amazing sleep!

We had a great night last night. I consider it a good night when Finn nurses, goes back down w/o a fuss, and sleeps longer than 45 min. I don't mind 3-4 nursings a night as long as he goes right back to sleep. I'm at the point now where I'm pretty good at sleeping sitting up holding him. A few times recently I've fallen asleep with him horizontal in my arms and not realized it until he woke up to nurse again.







Anyway last night was good. Especially b/c he went back down after his 5 am nursing and we slept til almost 9! All of us! Even DH and Nora!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Haha, Carrie! I think Nora weighs about the same as Kellen, who is a year older. Did you see the photos of the boys eating shrimp cocktail that I posted on FB on NYE? The boy from next door is in them. He's only 3 or 4 months older than Ethan. You can see the huge size difference. My kids are soooooooooooo small. Ethan, who'll be 8 in less than 2 weeks, only weighs 48 lbs.

Dylan is not sleeping through the night or anything like. He does seem to be drifting off to sleep sometimes without needing to nurse or anything. He fell asleep in the car the other. When I got home and got him out, he woke up. I decided to try laying him down anyway and he just went right back to sleep, no squirming or fussing at all. Nights are kind of blurry for me so I'm not sure what is going on. It seems, though, that he wakes up sometimes and then just goes back to sleep. A few times he's been nursing and continually popping on and off until I couldn't take it anymore. I put my boob away and rolled over. He was laying on his back and then was just asleep. No fuss or anything.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW, that neighbor kid is a giant! I think he's bigger than my 11 yr old!

akind1, that's awesome you could get Gabe in the carrier. Probably makes things a lot easier!

I'm so excited that we are in LWAB! And I love the title of the thread BTW!

I think I will probably do avocado for DD's first food. My sister's girls both loved that when they were her age and she could use the extra fat. Now the question will be when should I give it to her? If I go by weeks, i.e. 24 weeks instead of 6 months, she turned 24 weeks yesterday. But she won't be 6 months until Jan. 17. So what should I do? I guess two more weeks isn't that big of a deal. If I can hold her off that long! She is very close to just swiping stuff out of my hands at this point! She will not be deterred by practicing with silverware. She wants food!

She is also getting better about going to sleep sort of on her own. I can lay down with her in my arms still awake and she will just suck on her paci or play with it and fall asleep. So nice especially in the middle of the night when I used to have to sit up and wait for her to fall asleep before I could lay her back down.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think that rather than going too much by dates, it's better to go by baby's development as far as when to start solids. You can always give her a piece now to see if she eats it. She may not actually get much in her mouth and more likely just play with it and must it. Be ready for some mess!

Carrie ~ I was thinking about the people buying the Baby Bullet. If they formula feed, starting baby a little earlier on purees might not be such a bad thing. Those babies wouldn't have a virgin gut, anyway, and it seems to me that real food would be better than the formula.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Hmmm, I'll think about it some more. I don't have a high chair for her yet so I would have to put her in the bumbo and she's still not great in that. I'll probably wait a few more weeks.

Re: purees. I think they are silly. But a lot of people use them. My goddaughter's parents still feed her a lot of purees and she'll be 2 in March. Yes, 2. They also use all those Gerber toddler meals and I think it's silly. But it's their kid.







I would rather just give me baby food off my plate. So much easier than making a separate meal for the baby/toddler.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Those toddler meals are ridiculous. I think parents who use them think they are more nutritious for their toddlers than anything they could make. The fact is that they are very unhealthy according to the amount of salt, at least, that's in them. I read an article (maybe it was a blog) about that a while ago. It compared the salt and maybe the fat content of those toddler meals to those in a Happy Meal or something like that and they were very similar.

Why would anyone feed a 2yo purees? That makes no sense at all.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

It is quite strange I agree. The month that I was working 8-5, I would go over at lunchtime to see DD and so O would be eating her lunch during that time. M frequently mixes up rice cereal with some sort of puree and gives it to O for lunch. Her justification is that she won't eat some of those fruits and veggies in their whole form so she likes giving her the purees so she can get a variety.







Her feeding habits of O is one of the big reasons why I asked to go to nights and weekends so DD wasn't there as often. I am almost completely certain that if DD was there 9 hours a day still, M would be feeding her rice cereal and purees even if I said no. She just does whatever she wants. That's fine if it's her baby but doesn't work with mine.

Those toddler meals drive me nuts. When I had O for the weekend, she packed all those meals for her and I was trying to be respectful and feed her what she had packed because I would want her to do the same w/my DD if I packed special food for her but it was hard. It goes against all of my beliefs WRT food for little ones.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> I'm so excited that we are in LWAB! And I love the title of the thread BTW!


I agree!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Those toddler meals are ridiculous. I think parents who use them think they are more nutritious for their toddlers than anything they could make. The fact is that they are very unhealthy according to the amount of salt, at least, that's in them. I read an article (maybe it was a blog) about that a while ago. It compared the salt and maybe the fat content of those toddler meals to those in a Happy Meal or something like that and they were very similar.


I agree with this too! And SO EXPENSIVE!

My goodness, just feed your baby what you eat! But then again -- what is the SAD? Maybe b/c it's not much better, people don't realize? If most american families are eating out or eating fast food, is it any different? I did a few quick searches but couldn't find anything reliable. A few news sites said that only 40 some odd percent have home cooked meals more than 3 days a week.

That's true about the bullet. However, I still think that at the very least for a small baby (3-6 months, maybe even until age 1) formula has to be more nutritious for their developing brains than rice cereal or fruit, or even a vegetable. I think you are supposed to mix the cereal with formula so at least they still get that.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> I was trying to be respectful and feed her what she had packed because I would want her to do the same w/my DD if I packed special food for her but it was hard. It goes against all of my beliefs WRT food for little ones.


I agree with your logic and would do the same, and would feel the same way about it. I know plenty of ppl think it's crazy my kids are vegan, but I would be very upset if they disrespected our beliefs and fed my kids meat or dairy b/c they thought it was better.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I still think that at the very least for a small baby (3-6 months, maybe even until age 1) formula has to be more nutritious for their developing brains than rice cereal or fruit, or even a vegetable.


Oh, hm. I hadn't thought of that. The purees would be fed in conjunction with the formula, right? And, I assume they would feed a rounded diet of purees but, of course, I could be wrong. You can puree meats as well so I wouldn't think it would just be fruits and veggies. Maybe so, though. I don't really know what people make with those things.

What's in formula that's so special? From what I understand, it's just supposed to be the proper balance of protein, carbs and fats with vitamins, minerals and maybe DHA and other fad supplements added. What would be lacking if you fed a well-rounded diet of pureed foods?

The SAD is definitely something to consider. I didn't realize the number of people who eat out that regularly was so high. Are the stats that differentiate between singles, couples and families with kids? That would be interesting because I can see how lumping all of those groups together would skew things a bit. Although, I guess with so many single parent and dual-working parent families, there isn't much time to make dinner during the week so many families with kids probably do eat out a lot.

Annie ~ Maybe she packed those meals because she thought it would be easier for you? If you are ever in that position again, you could just mention that it's not a problem at all to feed her child whatever the rest of you are eating and see what she says.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh, I forgot to mention something. Dylan was napping and woke up way too soon, only about 45 minutes later. I could hear him on the monitor moving around and making noise but he wasn't fussing so I didn't rush to get him. I continued to knit for a little while and then realized all was quiet again. I went to check on him (it scared me that I couldn't hear him anymore) and he was sleeping again. Now I feel kind of bad but, like I said, he wasn't even fussing much less crying.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Annie ~ Maybe she packed those meals because she thought it would be easier for you? If you are ever in that position again, you could just mention that it's not a problem at all to feed her child whatever the rest of you are eating and see what she says.


No, that's what they feed her at home too. We've gone over for dinner and they make this awesome meal that would be so easy to just feed to her too and then they heat up this prepackaged ravioli crap. I just don't get it.

As long as D wasn't fussing, he was probably fine. DD has gotten better at going back to sleep if she wakes up when coming out of REM cycle. But I usually have to go in with her and lay down. If I wait too long, then she starts talking to me and playing with my face...hahaha!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> We had a great night last night. I consider it a good night when Finn nurses, goes back down w/o a fuss, and sleeps longer than 45 min. I don't mind 3-4 nursings a night as long as he goes right back to sleep. I'm at the point now where I'm pretty good at sleeping sitting up holding him. A few times recently I've fallen asleep with him horizontal in my arms and not realized it until he woke up to nurse again.
> 
> ...


Totally agree. Last night was one of those where I woke up to DD rooting and was like 'geeze kid, you just finished..." only to realized that two hours had passed. I completely fell asleep either while she was nursing, or just after she pulled off. I don't even remember. Those are the times that make me nervous to be co-sleeping, because I was completely not alert to the fact that she was there laying on top of me. A bit too tired I was! lol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Those toddler meals are ridiculous. I think parents who use them think they are more nutritious for their toddlers than anything they could make. The fact is that they are very unhealthy according to the amount of salt, at least, that's in them. I read an article (maybe it was a blog) about that a while ago. It compared the salt and maybe the fat content of those toddler meals to those in a Happy Meal or something like that and they were very similar.
> Why would anyone feed a 2yo purees? That makes no sense at all.


Working in the last daycare I worked in was a bit wakeup call. The kids all brought their own food, and this was in one of the nicest areas of the city. I worked in the infant room- so 10 months to 2 years... and let me tell you, some of the meals they were sent with were just sad. One particular kid, who was just short of two, almost every single day, he got; a yogurt, some form of cookies, applsesauce, his bottle and either lipton chicken noodle soup or kraft dinner. He would cry when we put it on his tray-- heartbreaking! In contrast, there was another kid, who just turned a year, who totally changed the way I think about 'baby food', because his parents did exactly what we're all talking about-- he got real food every day. So for instance he would come in with green beans cut tiny, with cheese over them, and roast pork in tiny pieces, and then avacado. Or he might have lasagna, or tiny pieces of chicken breast with quinoa or something. And the kid -loved- to eat, and would eat absolutely anything you cut in front of him. It really opened my eyes to what you -could- feed a toddler as opposed to what we're taught that you 'should'.

DD tries to put herself to sleep sometimes, but hasn't been successful. But it's cute to look at her, and you can -see- her squeezing her eyes shut and concentrating.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Re: purees - I did both things. Sometimes Gabe ate off our plates, and sometimes he would have some purees. Why? because he liked that texture of food. He gobbled it up. I did do jars (Earth's best and beech nut. I don't like Gerber. can't articulate why, other than industry insanity) but only because making my own was too much for my sense of laziness.

The purees in the squeezey pouches - like plum organics, etc - Gabe will still eat those. He will ask for them on the baby food aisle. And because they are a healthy option for a snack, I don't tell him no.

Things that are meant to be purees or similiar sorts of textures- applesauce for example - He loves creamed sweet potato. Bean dip. guacamole. yoghurt, ice cream . .

Now, I was not the parent that brings baby jars to restaurants with us. For that, Gabe always ate off our plates. Shoot, I never even packed bibs. I rarely remember a sippy cup.

ITA those gerber meals are silly. Also they are meant to be nuked, and microwaving things isn't the best way to heat food. it loses some its nutritional value that way. I've always thought "kid food" was silly . . . but my 2 year old really does love chicken nuggets and fish sticks and hot dogs. oh well.

as for weight limit on Boba, IDK, like 35 lbs maybe? or 40? Gabe is around 25 more or less, so well within that mark.

Norah will fall asleep in her rocker. Nights are also kind of blurry for me. I am not a huge clock watcher, but if I am awake enough I notice. but sometimes she just wants her hand on my boob and goes back to sleep.

I wish my kids werent' so picky about how I lay with them when we co sleep; my side is achy! once in a while I can sleep on my back, but first Gabe (he sleeps on his own now), and now Norah prefer me to sleep facing them.

ETA: baby pic! Norah is 12 weeks today! and 12 lbs 3 oz and 24 inches long!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> Those are the times that make me nervous to be co-sleeping, because I was completely not alert to the fact that she was there laying on top of me.


I think that shows just the opposite. You were more aware than you realize. You woke to her rooting. That's exactly what is supposed to happen.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> It really opened my eyes to what you -could- feed a toddler as opposed to what we're taught that you 'should'.


Those businesses that make food are really good at marketing. They even trick the medical professionals, who are supposed to know better, into believing their garbage.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

So cute, Kat! The sleeping positions might get better with time. D used to insist that I sleep on my side facing him whether nursing or not. He would fuss and not settle if I didn't. Lately, though, things have changed. I can roll onto my back or even turn completely the other way and cuddle with E or K for a little bit and D is ok.

I've seen someone feeding her baby those pouch foods. I wondered what they were. I thought it was some sort of premixed, portable formula. My kids aren't really into "kid" food. K likes corn dogs. They beg me to get those nasty Kid Cuisine meals at the grocery store. I would usually let them each get one until I realized they only wanted them for the desserts, the brownies and gummi bits. I said, "Hey, I can get you a lot more dessert for the same amount of money."


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

the brownies in those were awesome!

LOL - people usually are so surprised that Gabe eats sushi, fried rice, curry and well, everything except raw tomatoes. (a dislike that he must have inherited from both DH and I, if that's possible). but he does also like the pouches; but we didn't really do those until he could do them on his own. There are some interesting flavors - usually fruit + veggi combos.

but I don't mind him eating "kid" food; just sort of surprised he likes it so much!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I did a little googling (didn't have time to really look) but found some interesting links.

This is on how/where america eats. It's broken down in many ways.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/11/20/opinion/polls/main1060315.shtml

This one talks about formula vs bm vs whole milk and why both are better for babies than whole milk.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/91781-infant-formula-vs.-whole-milk/

This one talks about intro'ing solids.

http://www.healthychildren.org/english/ages-stages/baby/feeding-nutrition/pages/Switching-To-Solid-Foods.aspx?nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token

I think it's interesting and worth noting that despite introducing solids, the aap's stance is to keep bfing until one year despite doing solids. It has to fill some gaps that aren't present in meats/fruits/grains/veggies. Otherwise babies could just drink pureed adult food and we know that isn't the case. They need the fatty acids, etc, for brain development.

Kat - out of curiousity, how old was gabe when you did the purees/whole foods? I think age makes a difference. If a baby is just shy of 4 months, thats different to me than spoon feeding a 6-9 month old. In my "research" so many moms put cereal in bottles and started spoon feeding at mere weeks old! Insane to me.

JJ - I agree with MW, that innate sense of where Tenley is IS what keeps cosleeping safe. You think you aren't aware but you really are. I think tho, if you aren't comfortable like that then you compromise -- which is exactly what you're doing.

Kat - Happy 12 weeks to Norah!! That is one cute baby and such a pretty dipe!! Aww!!

MW - since you brought it up I hope you don't feel like I'm prying. Are you still in touch with Ryan's dad?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie: right around 6 months. we actually did "whole" food first - like asparagus spears, lemon slices, pizza crust (it was good pizza, not junk), french fries . . . then kind of backed into purees - we had the bean dip and sweet potato casserole (the mush kind, not chunks) at a family gathering and he just totally dug those textures. So we would feed him a jar about once a day (we forgot a lot of days) until he was nearly a year old. then we started doing the pouches out of curiousity and he liked those. he still does. Only fruits and veggies. he really doesn't like pureed meat. Except in the form of sausage or hot dogs. Granted, during this whole time, we continued to offer him "whole" foods too. It just when he actually wanted to eat, rather than gum things, he liked the smooth textures. Once he got more teeth - around the 1 year mark - he bit off more and would chew.

I don't like the notion that babies "have" to be fed anything solid. DH's family scoffs when I say not to feed Norah anything, because they all started feeding their babies at least rice cereal by 8 weeks, and upped the solids from there. And of course, all their kids turned out "fine" (of course by that, they mean relatively healthy. DH himself is borderline diabetic and most of his cousins and himself struggle with their weight) but that couldn't have anything to do with what or how they ate as babies (insert rolling eys here)

JJ; you have to do whatever you are comfortable with, but it's amazing how subconciously aware we are of babies in bed with us. I honestly need to be at least close enough to hear a baby breathe in order to sleep well. (but that's me). I don't know if DH is really aware of where the baby is, but he conciously clings to his edge of the king sized bed. When it's just him and baby in bed, the baby usually sleeps in the crook of his arm. (regardless of age of said baby - DS still does when Wayne will nap with him).


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Haha except in the form of hot dogs! LOL!









Idk, we never made a point to feed Nora. I mean, she got a bowl of steel cut oats in the morning, or pancakes, most days, once she was feeding herself. When we'd go out I'd bring cheerios/Annie's O's. I never worried about her getting enough to eat until she was completely weaned. I knew bf'ing would take care of her needs, and solids were mostly for exploration.

OMG. I just weighed Finn. 19 lbs 9 oz (19.6 lbs)! He's not even 5 mo!


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## **mom2one** (Jan 26, 2008)

As far as introducing solids - I know some moms who wait until the exact day that their baby turns 6 months to start solids - which I think is kind of strange. I thought it had more to do with being developmentally ready - not some magic age. IDK - I did start both of my DDs on solids earlier than 6 months - they were ready for it. Not sure what we will do with DS - I guess we'll wait and see.

We co-sleep most of the time for the reason that Kat stated - if I can't hear him breather I am not sleeping well, he doesn't have a crib - just a bassinet next to our bed but still if he is in there then I am up every 10 minutes looking to see if he is ok - feeling his chest to make sure he is breathing etc - but if he is next me i sleep much better - and some night I don't even know when I woke up - I just know I have nursed at some point since my bra is open! lol My MIL just asked me this morning how often he is up in the night and I said honestly I don't know! DH is a very sound/deep sleeper and he is the same - he clings to his edge of the bed every night and has never even come close to rolling onto the baby in bed.

I need to go get groceries, but I don't know if I can handle all three today - normally I would but Kacey still has her sore leg and isn't walking much yet so I would have to carry her and the baby....of course she would go in the cart but I just wonder about getting into the store in the first place.....

BTW - does anyone here sew/quilt? I have a picture of a crib quilt I want to make for DS's room (whenever he gets in to it!). My grandmother wants to quilt him one so she said if I make the top she will quilt it for me - but I have never done applique and I wonder if I am naive to think I can do this as a first project??? I will post a pic if anyone has any experience with it....

Well I guess I should go get something done....I really don't want to do anything today! I just wish for a lazy day - with someone to come and clean my house and cook for me! Lately I hate cooking for some reason.

Oh - recent pic of DS - such a happy boy!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

He's so cute!!! And Finn has that sleeper, too!!

So, DH and I have decided that '12 will be THE year, the year we buckle down and get this house ready to sell. He got the fence put up along the back, and now that we should have some time, we're going to do it. He didn't scoff or say no when I mentioned a cleaning service to help out like once or twice monthly. We need a bigger house! Here we go!!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Mom2One - I've watched my mom do mosaic quilts. (small pieces of fabric usually square, sewn together to form a picture or image) I've not seen any quilts with applique; can you post a pic?

As for groceries with 3: park next to a cart return and hopefully there will be carts in it; that way you can placy DD directly in cart and carry DS and your oldest can walk. That is what I would do LOL

Carrie - hooray on bigger house and cleaning service! We have the same resolution. If nothing else, we will move out of my IL's and in with my parents - we would have our own separate apartment, the kids could have separate bedrooms, or we could have a dedicated office. MIL is slowly driving all of us nuts. Unless we hit the lotto or something, it will be a while before we could buy a house of our own; our credit is ugh.

how big do you want? we love house hunting . . .


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Not huge. We each have certain things we feel we need vs things we want. We NEED more than one bathroom. So at least a 2, preferably a 2.5 bath. At least 4 bedroom, one for each kid, one for us, and an office for DH. We both want more privacy/land. I would love a ranch style house, something open, with a big eat in kitchen. Ahhh dreaming big!

Right now we have a 2 br 1 bath and a galley kitchen. Ugh. SUCKSSSS.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

oy! that would. Our house (it's still technically ours) is 2 beds, 2 baths, and a galley kitchen. 2 baths is a must!

On the wish list: Large kitchen, gas stove, 1 story house with between 3 and 5 beds. dedicated office space in a frog or formal living room would be nearly a need. fenced in yard. I want neighbors, but not necessarily a neighboorhood, if that makes sense. we really don't like HOA's.

Hope you are able to sell and therefore buy in the near future!

ooh, and got myself a keeper wrap (I am pretty sure) off of the babywearer FSOT - it's a Vatani 7! I'm excited. Once it gets here I will take pics.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

That makes sense. I don't want to be out in the middle of a field, but I would like some privacy in terms of not being right up against a neighbors house, or worrying they can see in my windows or are watching me in my yard. You know?

Our wish list is big. A pool would be wonderful. We would also love a fireplace!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh I could go on and on about the wish list for a future home. lol. It's funny when you buy your first, all the things you don't think about. Musts for the next are a big pantry, at least two bathrooms, a bigger yard, a fireplace, or space to put in one of the fakish ones. Oh and a bigger master bedroom. Ours seemed big enough (I mean you only sleep there...) until we tried to change it around to accomodate the baby. Then we realized how limited we were.

For now though, I just want to finish this house! We haven't outgrown it yet, and probably will be here another five years unless something strange happens. It's just us and DD, plus our 8lb dog, and the house is 750sq feet, two bed (one of them tiny) 1 bath. But... once we finish the basement, that doubles our living space and will quadruple our storage space. The laundry/utility room will be organized with a pantry, an actual laundry area, and DH's tools (it's a pretty big room). We'll also gain a bedroom with a semi-walk in closet, and then a large area that's a combined office, tv area and kids play area (they're all separate areas, but open concept. I can't wait to have that space down there. The family before us had three children, and honestly, I never felt cramped, other than their bedrooms (I nannyed for them). So us moving will likely be more a matter of preference, than true need. But it will be hard, since we're in a great, safe area, and our family is all very close. But to buy a bigger house in this area, we're looking at more than double the cost of our current home. Probably closer to triple.

Kat-- I agree, it depends on the place purees are taking in the child's life. Some foods -are- good pureed! It's just disappointing to see parents that don't seem to realize there is another option, you know? They just assume that the baby/toddler/young child has to eat pureed or packaged foods.

Woke up last night with DD beside me again, but on the wrong side-- ie the one that means she's about to fall off the bed. It completely freaked the crap out of me, because again, I didn't notice until she was literally trying to chomp down through my shirt. I ended up nursing her and talking to her, asking her to give mommy a stretch in bed where she would sleep in her bassinet because mommy really needed to sleep, and it would be safer for her. Fluke I know, but she went to sleep in her bassinet for two hours! It's the first time we've tried to put her down in a while, because it hasn't been worth the chance of upsetting her and waking her up. lol. But then she even woke up smiling! We nursed again, and she went back into the bassinet for another 45 minutes, and then woke up because she had to have a bm and couldn't in the position she was in. Oh but seriously... those almost three hours were so wonderful. I sleep better with her near me, but not on me. I'd love to have the bassinet closer to the bed, but as is, I sleep well because I can hear her fussing, but feel safer to fall into a deep sleep. Once she's older I think I'll feel more comfortable with her in bed. Right now, it just feels like a stopgap, not a choice.

I've got almost 4oz of milk in the fridge that needs to be used, so I think I'm going to put some earplugs in today and try to take a nice looonnnng nap while DH takes her. By the end of today I could be starting fresh!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Oooh, just for laughs, speaking of things you don't think of before you buy (or in our case, renovate) your house... We put in this gorgeous soaker tub that stands I think 21" deep from the floor. So nice, and it's got the curved back so you can enjoy your baths, etc etc. Except... try to sit outside the bath and bathe a child. I don't know anyone whose arms are long enough for that to be comfortable. I end up in so much pain! (This from bathing the dog, and babysitting kids, obviously we're not throwing Tenley in the bathtub alone... lol) Also-- coming home 24 hours postpartum and trying to step over that 21" ledge. Ouch! I avoided showering the first couple days because I didn't think I'd make it. lol. I really want a walk in shower in the next house!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Strangest thing just happened that's never happened before. I put Finn down in the cosleeper for his nap. He was already asleep, of course, nursed down. About 5 min later, I hear him in there talking, not fussing, just chatting -- like "oooo-oooo-ooo" - and thought, damn. Oh well, no nap today, I guess. I went to do one other little thing before getting him, and then tip toed past the room and peeked in. He was back asleep! How did that happen?!? I just peeked in there now (about 30 min later, I had to get DH's wallet) and he's sucking his thumb, asleep! So. Effing. Cute.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: I know! I want a huge walk in shower. the one at our other house was long enough that I could put baby in a sling seat - it's meshy and meant for the tub - at the back while I showered. baby might get a little splashed, but is otherwise happy and close. Our current tub/shower combo at MIL's isn't long enough for that. I miss that extra space! plus once DS could stand and walk well, he could play at the back.

How long until the basement is done? it sounds awesome! not many houses here have basements, if they do, it's generally a walk-out (which is a good thing, I know) but they are few and far between. Love them! my parents are from out west, and everyone has them there, finished or not.

Hooray for good sleep! Norah has been sleeping most of the day; she loves that rocker thing. I will hate it when she grows out of it, b/c then what will she nap in?

We can't get the bassinette right next to the bed. wish we could.

JJ: you totally need a bed rail. worth it! I need to recover mine from a friends' house . . .


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh that shower sounds perfect. It's exactly what we need. DD loves the shower, but I can't hold her and clean myself at the same time.

The basement... ugh. Who knows. It should have been done in August but DH was taking forever to make progress. Now it's more of a money thing. Him being off work for the past six months, we've finally gone through our savings, so we need to wait until he's working again before we can put more money back into it. It was 'finished' when we moved in, but horribly so. Over the past three years, we've unfinished it, repaired the foundation from outside and in, reframed the walls, and now DH is working on electrical, and then we can put drywall up and start it actually seeming 'finished'.

Definitely been thinking about the bedrail if she keeps sleeping with us. She's moving more than she used to, so it's going to be a must soon.

Carrie-- that's awesome!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

it gets easier to sleep with them as they get older. Until they are toddlers. Then it sort of sucks. (love watching DS sleep: but he is a wriggle monster and sleeps sideways, therefore is really no fun to share a bed with)

In the meantime: bedrails are awesome! I can't find online the one I bought before. but it is a Munchkin one that works up to king size beds, is super tall and long. the only thing is that it's supposed to fold down, but our bed isn't high enough to accomodate that. No matter, because we don't need to fold it.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

akind1, I totally don't have a problem w/purees when they are done that way, especially when you continue to introduce your little one to "regular" food. I know that your DS eats a variety of foods, I've seen the pics of him scarfing down Thai food! And of course he would love "kid" food! My issue comes in when parents don't introduce their little one to regular food and automatically assume they wouldn't like it. My goddaughter's parents do that. Instead of shredding up the pork that they made and giving her the delicious homemade roasted potatoes, they make a grilled cheese sandwich w/american cheese on white bread.







It's like they are setting her up to only eat "kid" food. And then parents like this complain when they have a 4 or 5 year old that will only eat mac and cheese and chicken nuggets!

The purees in the pouches, especially the Sprout ones, look really cool because they also introduce some spices IIRC. I think if I did those, they would be the exception and not until DD has tried regular solids.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

i missed a lot while out for the day.

haven't read the links yet about feeding. wanted to say that i wasn't suggesting replacing breastmilk with solids. i was talking about formula vs. solids. i don't consider formula anywhere close to being in the same category (not the right word but i can't think of it) as breastmilk. just from what i know about the ingredients in formula, i don't see that it's any better than solids as long as baby is getting a well-rounded diet of solids.

never quilted so can't help with that.

i have a bedrail that folds down. i only fold it when i change the sheets. otherwise, it stays up all the time. it's too noisy to fold and set up after putting D down. i read once about wrapping the sheet or blanket around baby and tucking it underneath to keep baby in place in bed. the thing i read swore it was safe but it didn't seem like it would be to me. they also make long pillow things that tie to the bed but they take up a lot of bed space.

carrie ~ that's the exact same thing D did yesterday during his naps. he slept so long after that initial waking that i checked on him 3 times.

groceries wth 3: what kat said. park next to a cart thing with a cart in it. put kids in straight from the car. if you have to carry older child, baby in sling, older child piggy back.

happy boys and big boys!







E was 19+ at 5 months.

did i mention ryan's dad? i don't remember. haha! we are not in touch but i do have him on FB. he's the same idiot, just older and uglier.







to give you an idea, he just recently got out of prison and is now working as a supposedly professional boxer. but we don't talk or ever see each other.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I was about get mad thinking my post was lost until I realized that Annie and I must have cross-posted.

League! That's the word I was looking for. I don't consider formula in the same league as breastmilk so when I talk about introducing solids to a FF baby I don't make any comparison or anything in my head with breastmilk. So, yeah, I totally agree that one should continue to BF as the main source of nutrition for at least a year, preferably 2 and beyond if it's working. With formula, though, I'd think that anyone would want the baby/child off formula and on real food asap.

Dylan is not only able to spin himself around on his tummy. He's starting to schooch. He gets mad, I think, because he wants to go forward but ends up sliding backward on the wood floors.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> I don't consider formula in the same league as breastmilk so when I talk about introducing solids to a FF baby I don't make any comparison or anything in my head with breastmilk. So, yeah, I totally agree that one should continue to BF as the main source of nutrition for at least a year, preferably 2 and beyond if it's working. With formula, though, I'd think that anyone would want the baby/child off formula and on real food asap.


Well, respectfully of course, I disagree. Hm. No, I don't think formula and bm are remotely similar, but I do think formula is necessary for babies under 1 who aren't bf'ing. Being that I haven't ff'ed, I can't say for sure. Maybe you're right and that's why ff'ing moms are quick to push their kids to cows milk (or similar) at 1, but I thought that was more b/c of cost. Not b/c of what's in it.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Well, respectfully of course, I disagree. Hm. No, I don't think formula and bm are remotely similar, but I do think formula is necessary for babies under 1 who aren't bf'ing. Being that I haven't ff'ed, I can't say for sure. Maybe you're right and that's why ff'ing moms are quick to push their kids to cows milk (or similar) at 1, but I thought that was more b/c of cost. Not b/c of what's in it.


You can look up the ingredients of infant formulas, sort of. They are kind of vague about exactly what is contained in them. Basically, it's supposed to be a balance of proteins, fats and carbs that are supposed to mimic breastmilk with the addition of vitamins and minerals. One can, theoretically, get all of these nutrients from solid foods. Obviously, you can't feed a very young baby solid foods. However, once they are ready for solids, I don't see what infant formula supplies that regular food would not.

I'm not saying that one should immediately stop formula and feed only solids. There is a period of transition during which formula may fill in gaps with nutrients babies new to solids may not eat but I still think that normal food is better than any manufactured food. The nutrients in formulas are manufactured. They are not normal or natural.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I have to think this thru more, but babies need a lot of calories, more than i think they could injest thru solid foods. Im sure in theory, you could keep a baby alive and healthy thru whole foods, but I do not think it's realistic or possible. They would have to eat so much, and to do that all with purees?? I think that is why non bf'ed babies need formula. Man made or not. Natural or not.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Baby_Cakes, I think I agree what you are saying. Babies' bodies are designed to drink their calories and if they can't have BM, then they need it through formula, cow's milk, goat's milk, etc.

The more I look at the Sprout food, I think once DD starts eating solids, I will try some of the stage 3. It looks like those are chunky, not pureed, and they are all organic and I can pronounce everything in them. Some of the meals look better than what I cook!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I have to think this thru more, but babies need a lot of calories, more than i think they could injest thru solid foods. Im sure in theory, you could keep a baby alive and healthy thru whole foods, but I do not think it's realistic or possible. They would have to eat so much, and to do that all with purees?? I think that is why non bf'ed babies need formula. Man made or not. Natural or not.
> Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


I think that's the key. Perhaps in an ideal world, then yes, every parent would be able to provide a nutritionally complete daily diet from six months onwards, and be able to discontinue formula use. But in reality... I just don't think it's practical... or maybe... even possible. Like Carrie said, the requirements may be more than a baby would actually be able to consume in that time period. Also the supplements that you would have to give... I'm not sure that would be practical to have to give.

Lucky we have breastfeeding instead and don't have to worry about that


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Annie - The sprout meals look good don't they? Gabe wouldn't eat them . . . oh well.

I don't know what exactly we will do with Norah. It depends on what she wants to do, for all I know, she'll hate purees. We have a bit to think about that.

I need to start doing something, I think excersise wise. I am far too hungry through out the day to consider dieting. 12 weeks PP and I am kinda stuck at about 10 lbs below PrePregnancy weight (which is great!) but I do want to lose some more. Also wondering if I actually should eat more? thats' hindered by a gum issue I have that I'm trying to resolve, it makes it painful to chew anything alot, so I am liking soft foods. it's mostly meat that I have a problem with. Maybe I should just go vegetarian! hmmm. It's a thought. Though I haven't had any issues with fish. maybe pescetarian?

In an ideal world, all babies would be breastfed by somebody. It's not though, so I do think babies should have formula until they are a year; it's super fortified with probably more junk than is necessary, but babies tummies are only so big. I don't think they could get all their nutrition from solids. But it probably helps round it out in non-breastfed babies.

Our squishies are getting so big! Did Kinder post pics of Everest somewhere?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think you were misunderstanding what I was saying. I wasn't saying that one would or should completely cut out formula at 6 months and feed a baby only solids. I was saying that I can see how parents who FF would want to get their babies on purees and solids earlier so they would need less formula. Once you start giving your baby solid food, whether breast for formula feeding, you are at least partially replacing that liquid food. And, yeah, that would be in an ideal world where people prepared and ate their own nutrition meals and fed those same meals to their children. I'm certainly not talking about feeding a baby strained carrots from a jar 3 times a day not giving him anything else. But starting a baby on purees early is the same mentality as putting rice cereal in the bottle. It gives baby something else to eat so that she needs less formula. The rice cereal doesn't have much nutritional value, except that maybe it's fortified with some vitamins and minerals. I don't really know about that. Actually, that could be bad because a lot have iron, right? And that can cause constipation. Anyway, my point was that I can see how FF parents would want to start solids earlier by spoon feeding purees so that they could use less and less formula sooner.

If it's just extra calories babies need, though, they why wouldn't another mammal milk work to fill in the gaps? If you get raw, whole milk it has a very good balance of protein, carbs and fat. And, yeah, some people/babies have trouble digesting animal milk and have or develop allergies but they also have trouble digesting and have or develop allergies to formula. Most are made with dairy, which makes them just as likely to cause digestive and allergy problems as cow milk. Again, to be clear, I'm not talking about feeding a newborn cow's milk. I'm saying I can see the appeal to parents about switching a 4+ month old from formula to solids and cow's milk before the age of 1.

Can you tell me what is in the formula that is so special that a baby needs that over other foods? I'm really quite ignorant about formula so I truly don't know what's in it that is so special. I've googled and googled but can't come up with anything except the nutrient balance. And, other than that nutrient balance, there aren't any requirements or regulations on what can or cannot be in it.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: ITA agree that whole raw animal milk would be just as good (probably preferable) to formula. it's hard to find though in some areas. Before there was formula, that is how you would likely feed a baby that had no access to human milk.

You can be allergic to anything, and I think raw milk would actually pose less of an allergic risk than pasteurized, since lactose intolerant people can tolerate raw milk usually.

Oh, and I did get my haircut! it isn't as short as I wanted, I will likely get it cut again in the near future, but this is what it is. Sorry the pic isn't great.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I found this that lists the ingredients of one infant formula: http://www.enfamil.com/app/iwp/enf10/content.do?dm=enf&id=/Consumer_Home3/Infants/EnfamilPremiumInfant&iwpst=B2C&ls=0&cm_mmc=Digitas-SEM-_-Bing-Routine-Enfamil-_-Infant%20Formula-_-infant%20formula%20food&csred=1&r=3503139692

As far as info on why infants need formula even after starting solids, it's the same stuff everywhere I look. Continuing to feed formula from 6-12 months ensures adequate nutrient intake. I still really don't get it. Personally, I think it's more about having easy control over what baby eats rather than baby needing the formula. I mean, you could provide baby with all the nutrients s/he needs through solid foods after a short transitional period. However, docs can't quantify the nutrients in the solids an individual feeds her baby. They can easily quantify total nutrients baby is getting from the amount of formula s/he eat daily. Plus, I think that they probably don't trust that parents understand how, can or will feed their babies adequately, which may true for most of the population.

there are two reasons i don't trust the recommendations that babies on formula need it until 12 months. first, it's a profit driven industry. the bottom line is about making money, not necessarily what is best for people. second, the people making that recommendation are still saying that you must start with cereals and purees as baby's first foods. "adult" table foods aren't recommended until after a year. seems to me those people don't really know much about feeding babies and are just perpetuating the party line, so to speak.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Very cute haircut, Kat.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> I was saying that I can see how parents who FF would want to get their babies on purees and solids earlier so they would need less formula. Once you start giving your baby solid food, whether breast for formula feeding, you are at least partially replacing that liquid food. And, yeah, that would be in an ideal world where people prepared and ate their own nutrition meals and fed those same meals to their children. I'm certainly not talking about feeding a baby strained carrots from a jar 3 times a day not giving him anything else. But starting a baby on purees early is the same mentality as putting rice cereal in the bottle. It gives baby something else to eat so that she needs less formula. The rice cereal doesn't have much nutritional value, except that maybe it's fortified with some vitamins and minerals. I don't really know about that. Actually, that could be bad because a lot have iron, right? And that can cause constipation. Anyway, my point was that I can see how FF parents would want to start solids earlier by spoon feeding purees so that they could use less and less formula sooner.
> If it's just extra calories babies need, though, they why wouldn't another mammal milk work to fill in the gaps? If you get raw, whole milk it has a very good balance of protein, carbs and fat. And, yeah, some people/babies have trouble digesting animal milk and have or develop allergies but they also have trouble digesting and have or develop allergies to formula. Most are made with dairy, which makes them just as likely to cause digestive and allergy problems as cow milk. Again, to be clear, I'm not talking about feeding a newborn cow's milk. I'm saying I can see the appeal to parents about switching a 4+ month old from formula to solids and cow's milk before the age of 1.
> Can you tell me what is in the formula that is so special that a baby needs that over other foods? I'm really quite ignorant about formula so I truly don't know what's in it that is so special. I've googled and googled but can't come up with anything except the nutrient balance. And, other than that nutrient balance, there aren't any requirements or regulations on what can or cannot be in it.


Oh I see now. Yes that goes along with most thinking, I believe, of weaning off the bottle by 1, getting them off formula and onto solid food by 1. I also see how that causes trouble for mamas who nurse past infancy.

I guess I meant it's not just calories they need, but that every calorie has to be nutrient dense. It's the same reason when a mama on a bf'ing challenges thread wanted to add gelatin to her babys bottle to fill her up more, I thought that could be harmful. B/c it would fill that baby's belly with non-nutrient dense matter.

I don't think anything in it is magical or special - just that it mimics breastmilk in the nutrition aspect. It isn't living tissue the way bm is, and it obv doesn't have the unique properties bm does, but unlike combining corn syrup and evaporated milk, it has vitamins, minerals, fatty acids, protein and carbohydrate in the correct proportions.

I found an article this morning about how maybe instead of criticising formula/ff'ing moms, we all need to fight harder for regulations and safety. There are some moms who can't bf. The reason why is moot. If we are really concerned about what is best for babies, maybe we need to shift our focus to the companies making the formula and not those who choose to use it.

Kat - looks cute!! Argh. Making me want to cut mine even more!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie: go for it!

and yes, beat up the companies, not the mamas! surely they could make that stuff more "natural"? I have noticed they are starting to stage it, so it changes with baby like breastmilk, but they won't ever be able to really do so; since BM changes daily.

and you know (I hate it to say this - but) I am sure I wasn't the only one fed the old-school "formula" of evap milk+caro syrup. The only thing that is is just calorie dense; can't say it's balanced. I know rice cereal started around 8 weeks and probably fruits and veggies around 4 months. and I survived (not saying I'm "fine" exactly) but I think the obesity epidemic we have is as much due to what we *were* fed as infants as to what we are currently eating now.

I shouldn't be, but I was totally bummed that I was only able to get 5 oz this morning when I pumped. I normally get 8-9. think I need to put Norah to the breast more, plus more water. and eat more (healthy) food. (I say I shouldn't be bummed, because for most people 5 oz is great!)


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I wasn't meaning to criticize FF parents. Again, I was saying that I can see how something like the Baby Bullet would appeal to them more and that might be even better to start using at 4 months rather than continuing with just formula for a longer period. I strongly believe that real, natural food is better than any manufactured food whenever possible (as I know you all do, too). Although, I'm sure plenty of BF mamas buy that thing, too, if for no other reason than because all the recommendations out there say to start baby on purees.

That really annoyed me as I was reading all the stuff about feeding babies this morning. Everything I read said to start baby on cereal and then purees and not "adult" food and not to start meat until 8+ months, I believe. I seriously doubt that the LLL would put dangerous recommendations in their book about starting babies on table food and even feeding shredded chicken as a first food. Maybe that's for older babies, though, if you don't start solids until 9+ months. I think the LLL says 6-9 months to start solids, rather than the 4-6 months that so many doctors recommend.

Kat ~ You were born in the 80's, right? Do you know why your parents didn't use commercial formula?

My mom says that her mom didn't breastfeed. She tried to breastfeed my mother, the oldest, for a few weeks but gave up. Don't know what she fed her babies instead. That was in the 40s. My mom said she'd ask my aunt what she fed her babies because she probably did whatever their mom did.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I didn't think you were critizing FF mamas, but so much out there does. Kind of like the obesity posters/billboards/commercials in GA - they are really critisizing parents. the last line in the article is one ITA with (article is in the Huffington Post; saw a link to it on FB) - we need to fight obesity, not the obese.

As for why not commercial formula? - partly the expense of it; I'm sure it's never been cheap. and partly because the evap milk combo is what my Gran fed all 5 of her kids and mom lived with Gran when she had me, so would have just gone along with it. I was born in 1981. My sister was born in 1988 and she was fed commercial formula (mom bf'd her 2 months and stopped b/c she didn't like it). I think she ended up on soy formula because she had major reflux issues.

Totally OT (but isn't everything??) I just ordered Norah some bows off of Etsy! I didn't think I'd be into all that, but I just can't help it


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

ok, whew! it's hard for me to find that line between encouraging and promoting breastfeeding without offending or upsetting people who don't. it seems like no matter what i say someone is going to get upset about it. then i think eff it. i'll either say whatever i want and not care or i won't say anything at all. like my friend on FB who said she was harassed daily about feeding her baby poison. i'm pretty sure that came from her family and not security personnel in stores and strangers in public in the way breastfeeding women are harassed. i really didn't want to get into it with her so i didn't say much in response.

but the facts are the facts. breastmilk is what babies are supposed to eat. at the breast is the way they are supposed to get it. it's not just best. it's normal. no other substance, even specially manufactured baby food, is an equal substitute. and there are risks to manufactured foods. we are basically at the mercy of the manufacturers in hopes that they are trustworthy and do the right thing. even with the best quality and safety controls in place, bad things happen. i just read a blog post today about how stores sell expired infant formula and baby food because they can. i don't know how dangerous that is but there must be an expiration date for a reason.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Well and to follow up on what you are saying MW, when you are dealing with preemies and other babies w/medical issues, you are advised to use already prepared formula rather than the powder because it can be contaminated or the water used to mix it can be contaminated. That's pretty scary.

You know there is a LOT of info out there about starting babies on solids at 4-6 months w/rice cereal first followed by purees. That made me remember something from when my goddaughter was like 7-8 months old. I was taking care of her one evening and her mom was showing me what to feed her for dinner. M had this little booklet that was put out by a major manufacturer (can't recall now but maybe a formula company or perhaps Gerber?) and it was this timeline for introducing solids to your baby. She was following it to the LETTER including amounts of cereal and spoonfuls of puree to give per meal. She's an older first time mom and has little to no experience with infants so I guess she figured that was the best info? I didn't say anything at the time because I figured she had done her research and that's what she wanted to do but now I wish I had said something. A few months later, she made a reference to turning O FF at her 1st b-day and I spoke up about that and she was so thankful because she just didn't know.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

i think that's what i did with ryan. i don't remember the specifics now but i do vaguely remember directions about feeding certain amounts of baby food a certain number of times a day. he also self-weaned in his 13th month so...i don't think that's very good advice for breastfeeding moms. although, i guess many do want to fully wean at around a year.

i'm in a glum mood today. i've felt this way since new year's day. not sure what's going on. maybe hormones because i've had a lot of ewcf the last 3-4 days. i've been thinking about taking some of my placenta capsules. or maybe i should try the tincture.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Yeah she weaned at pretty much exactly O's first b-day but she had about a month of frozen milk stored so O got that for a month and then was switched to cow's milk. I don't get it but it's her kid so she can do what she wants. My issue w/their feeding habits is that she was trying to impose them on Ava and that's just not going to work for a variety of reasons. I want DD fed on demand, not when the clock dictates. Also, she has to eat a certain amount so she doesn't get dehydrated and die. Little things like that. DD is only there for a couple of hours each day now so not a big deal.

Oh did I tell you guys that I'm having a hard time finding the pacifiers that DD loves? I used to buy them at Target and they seem to not be stocking them any longer. When we were out of town this weekend, our hotel had a Target right next store and I bought them out! They only had four packs left. I sent a pic of them to my sister so she can check her Target since she's coming down this weekend. We will be in a world of hurt if we can't get more pacis! DD LOVES them! She has started holding one in her hand and one in her mouth when she goes to sleep.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

What sort are they? We use mam pacis and I think I buy a pack each time we are in Target.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

They are Playtex Binky pacis. I wish she would take the Mams. Those are sold everywhere. I've found one online site that sells them but I'd rather just buy them and not have to pay shipping, you know? But if it comes down to it, I'll have to order them from drugstore.com. We have these pacis spread all over our county!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Mw, u have your cycle back already? I still take my placenta capsules every now and then. It helps so much.

I finally admitted defeat and started treating a vaginal yeast infection with monistat last night. I hate these gross treatments!! I feel so icky!! I can't figure out why i got a YI. We haven't dtd in forever. Nothing goes in there. No thrush on my bbs. Wth?!? Hormones, maybe?

I think my food store has those particular pacis. Not a place id normally look for baby things.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

No, no AF yet. I keep getting bouts of what seems like ewcf and cramps every few weeks. I think the last time may have been when Sean was home so a little over a month ago.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I've looked in my grocery stores and they have the latex kind but not the silicone kind. I did find one package at Walmart but I haven't seen anymore. I hope they aren't being discontinued.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

AnnieA - Amazon has those too

(6 months and up)
http://www.amazon.com/Playtex-Silicone-Pacifier-Months-Colors/dp/B001KYQE7S/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1325731288&sr=8-3

(and here is the newborn one - not sure which one you use)

http://www.amazon.com/Playtex-Binky-Silicone-Newborn-Pacifier/dp/B00200LOSA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325731288&sr=8-1

I bet even if all your stores stop carying them - amazon will have them for a long time (if not forever). Keep in mind if you spend 25+ dollars you get free shipping









I have become an amazon freak. I can never get out to actually shop, so there ya go.........









ETA - how adorable she actually goes to sleep with one in her mouth and one in her hand!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Thanks Annie! Hadn't thought about looking on amazon!

It is so cute...I took a pic!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

OMG! That's so cute!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Whew! All the boys are asleep and I'm staying up for a bit to get some "me" time and knit a little. Dylan has been so fussy. I gave him some Hyland's teething tablets and he instantly settled. I didn't give them to him for so long because I didn't know if the fussiness was teething or his ear infections. We have a follow up appointment with the pediatrician tomorrow so I'll find out if the ear infections are gone. I've been using garlic ear drops instead of the abx. If his ears aren't cleared up tomorrow, I guess I'll have to give him the abx. I wish I could look into his ears myself. He has been pulling at his left ear a bit but the doc said the right ear looked worse. I don't think I mentioned that the ER doc did not see infection in his ears when we were there. Either another thing they screwed up on or maybe he got them afterward.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Are ear infections caused by bugs that go around? I guess so since that's one of the things they talk about preventing with the Prevnar 13 shot right? I guess I always thought it was from something else since babies that get them frequently get tubes put in their ears?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Well, the answer is yes and no. Ear infections can be caused by bacteria. However, any time there is fluid trapped in the ear and the ear becomes inflamed, it is called an infection even if there isn't any bacteria present. They are not contagious. Ryan used to get ear infections all the time. His pediatrician told me there was no need to keep him out of school if he was feeling ok. It was not contagious. I guess that's why they now say that abx are not always necessary.

Dylan has no signs of a bacterial infection. The pediatrician said his ears looked red and inflamed. I think it was caused by the cold that caused congestion. His ears weren't draining well so fluid backed up in the ear canals. Hopefully, the garlic ear drops and the saline solution in the nebulizer helped to clear out his ears. Now that I'm typing this I'm thinking that, even if his ears do still look inflamed, if he doesn't have a fever, maybe he still doesn't need the abx. The big long-term concern with ear infections is hearing loss. I think I'll ask the doc about that tomorrow. Neither Ethan nor Kellen ever had a diagnosed ear infection but I never took them to the doc, either. As common as they are, I would bet they've each had at least one.

Oh, Ethan's eczema is flaring up again. He gets it every winter. I'm pretty sure it's not a food sensitivity. He only gets it in the winter and his diet hasn't changed. I made him smear coconut oil on all the spots. I also smeared it all over Kellen's mouth because he's got that dry, irritated, cold weather chapped skin around his mouth. He says it hurts. I hope they all heal quickly.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Wow, that is adorable.

All this talk had me curious about the soothers we were using. We started with Born free ones, which I really liked, but they all disappeared/got eaten by the dog, so now we're using both Avent ones (she's not a huge fan) and Nuk ones that are the same shape as the Born free ones. I wanted to go back to the born free, but they don't have them on the babys r us website, and DH said when he was at superstore the other day, they didn't have them there either. I'll have to check walmart. That would suck if I couldn't find them again. They have them on Amazon, but the shipping costs here are silly, and they don't have them from a big retailer, just ones I've never heard of, which always makes me wary.

I'm sure most of you have seen on FB already, but we had another amazing night last night. I feel like things are finally settled into a normal 'pattern'. Last night she nursed and napped off an on from about 9-12, and then slept in my arms from about 1220 until 1, I put her in the bassinet, and she slept until 530, then woke up happy, nursed, changed, and went back to sleep. I was able to put her into the bassinet again and she slept soundly from 630 until about 830, and then from 830 she fussed every 30 minutes or so, but then fell back asleep before I even did anything (like 20 seconds) until about 1030, when I finally just grabbed her to feed. She probably would have slept longer, who knows. Then she continued having a fantastic day. It seems like since she's fallen into a good pattern of long nighttime sleeps, now she's so much happier during the day. We actually have happy time with her where she just stares at things, or babbles at us, or will be content to just sit on our laps without us constantly needing to be actively soothing her. Tonight I was folding her laundry, so I laid her down on the couch beside me on this soft sheep pillow thing we were given, and she nestled up to it, and started to put herself to sleep. She also seems to be waking up happier as well. She'll fuss a bit, and coo, and just start moving, whereas she used to wake up shrieking.

The nicest thing is how much more loving I feel towards her, especially her sleeping in the bassinet. Don't get me wrong, I love her to pieces and would throw myself under a bus for her. But it was getting to the point where I was so exhausted that she would wake up in the middle of then night, and I didn't even want to help her. I would have to hand her to DH and go get a drink, and go to the bathroom, and get a snack, and like mentally prepare myself to nurse her and soother her back to sleep, because I was just so angry at being woken up again. She would fuss after an hour of sleep and all I could think was 'oh god not again', but now because I'm sleeping deeper in between, I'm able to go to her and be happy to help. I can pick her up and honestly tell her I missed her, instead of just wishing she would be quiet. It's so nice 

Speaking of cute pacifier things. She's sitting on my lap getting ready for bed, and she's got her paci in, which has a paci clip on it that attached to her sleeper. She's getting frustrated, because she's playing with the ribbon that attaches it, and she keeps pulling, so she pulls the paci out of her mouth, and obviously can't figure out who keeps stealing her paci from her. Poor girl.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

ugh. lost my post.

here goes again: I've never tried any other paci's. Well, the hospital started us with a soothie and 1)I think they are ugly and 2) she wouldn't take it anyway. its nipple is too long and made her gag. So they brought us a mam and she sort of took it. she didn't gag on it. and I just stuck with that one until she really started taking paci's around 5 weeks.

for the other HTF paci's - I say - STOCK UP! you just don't know if they will stop carrying them or not. My sister - who had it for 4! years - only would take these awful, huge, latex Playtex pacifiers (they don't make them anymore I think)

MW: I have seen at buybuyBaby and so therefore I am sure you could find elsewhere, Amazon if no where else, a home ear-scope. it comes with instructions on what to look for. May not be a bad thing to have. The chiro we go to has a regular scope and will check ears if we ask. Beats visits to the pediatrician's office.

re: eczema (btw I am sure I spelled that wrong) a local mama friend said she's had excellent luck with pure glycerine. It's cleared up 90% of her son's excema. Does hazelwood help at all? I've read that it can.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Well, the answer is yes and no. Ear infections can be caused by bacteria. However, any time there is fluid trapped in the ear and the ear becomes inflamed, it is called an infection even if there isn't any bacteria present. They are not contagious. Ryan used to get ear infections all the time. His pediatrician told me there was no need to keep him out of school if he was feeling ok. It was not contagious. I guess that's why they now say that abx are not always necessary.
> Dylan has no signs of a bacterial infection. The pediatrician said his ears looked red and inflamed. I think it was caused by the cold that caused congestion. His ears weren't draining well so fluid backed up in the ear canals. Hopefully, the garlic ear drops and the saline solution in the nebulizer helped to clear out his ears. Now that I'm typing this I'm thinking that, even if his ears do still look inflamed, if he doesn't have a fever, maybe he still doesn't need the abx. The big long-term concern with ear infections is hearing loss. I think I'll ask the doc about that tomorrow. Neither Ethan nor Kellen ever had a diagnosed ear infection but I never took them to the doc, either. As common as they are, I would bet they've each had at least one.
> Oh, Ethan's eczema is flaring up again. He gets it every winter. I'm pretty sure it's not a food sensitivity. He only gets it in the winter and his diet hasn't changed. I made him smear coconut oil on all the spots. I also smeared it all over Kellen's mouth because he's got that dry, irritated, cold weather chapped skin around his mouth. He says it hurts. I hope they all heal quickly.


That's good info on ear infections. Nora has two and is on abx, and Finn finished his course of abx right before Christmas. Now, he's all snotty and congested again, and screams when you lay him down. We had a rough night last night and he demanded the swing from about 3 am on. Ugh. We have a nurse visit scheduled for today but I'm going to call when they open and see if I can also get his ears looked at.

I might need garlic oil. This is going to be a long winter if these kids keep ping ponging ear infections. Neither have spiked a fever. Well -- nora may have. I felt her once at night and she felt super hot, but since she was asleep I didn't wake her to use the thermometer. I should invest in a forehead one. They're just pricey.

I've heard wonderful things about CeraVe lotion for eczema. It's probably the cold weather making his condition flare up. A mama friend of mine has a daughter who snowboards, and says she's basically fine all year until snowboarding season, when it flares.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> MW: I have seen at buybuyBaby and so therefore I am sure you could find elsewhere, Amazon if no where else, a home ear-scope. it comes with instructions on what to look for. May not be a bad thing to have. The chiro we go to has a regular scope and will check ears if we ask. Beats visits to the pediatrician's office.


Yep - it's called an otoscope. There are youtube videos too, too see a healthy ear vs an infected one. Def beats a visit to a ped office, kat. I think that's why I like urgent care. I mean, they are still drs but for some reason the ped always feels like a trap. I like the feel of the family doctor so much better. Seriously thinking of switching myself, DH and both kids to go there instead. The same man stitched my sliced up finger, treated Finn's ear, and saw Nora as well. I like that.

Oh - pacis -- Finn liked the soothie brand, and thats what wubbanub uses. He adores his wubbanub giraffe. He can manipulate it pretty well and now chews the ears and legs when his gums hurt.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ I'm glad things are getting better. I have those same feelings myself sometimes. Like when Dylan has finally fallen asleep after being fussy for an hour and Kellen comes running into the room screaming and wakes Dylan up. Sometimes I feel like I'm going to lose my mind. This morning Dylan woke up and was sort of nursing but then not really. He kept latching on and popping off. I couldn't take it so I pushed him away and rolled over. Luckily, he didn't fuss but I don't think I would have cared if he had at that point. I was/am exhausted because he was so restless last night. I think he woke every hour. Anyway, I didn't mean to turn this into me whining. I was trying to let you know that I think almost every mom feels that sometimes and it's ok to take a minute or two.

Ethan will not use any creams or lotions. He says they all sting. I did convince him to put some coconut oil on the spots last night. I haven't checked them to see if they are any better. I put some on Kellen's face and it looks a lot better this morning. He says it doesn't hurt anymore. That could just be from sleeping and not having the skin exposed or messed with.

That reminds me that I've been meaning to mention the wonderful diaper rash stick I have. I do have a Grovia stick and it's ok. But I have one by Naturally Luxe, a home business. I don't know what it has in it that's different than the Grovia but it does a much better job of clearing up Dylan's sore bum. I've been using the Grovia stick all day every time I change him because that's what I had downstairs but he didn't really seem to be getting any better. I had forgotten all about the other stick I had until I found it on the floor behind the changing table upstairs. I put that on him before bed, don't change him all night, and his bum looks almost completely clear in the morning. I was continuing to use the Grovia during the day because, again, that's what I have downstairs where we are all day but his bum would get worse over the course of the day. I'm going to try the Naturally Luxe stick all day today and see if that makes a difference.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

JJ - Im glad things are improving too. I'm a lot like MW, I feel like losing my mind when things are THAT bad. Nora is back in my bed, like you all know. She still calls out for me in her sleep ( right in my ear sometimes!). The other night, Finn FINALLY nursed back to sleep (took like 20 min in the middle of the night), I put him down, sshhhhed, got him to settle, quietly laid down, got situated and she screams "MOMMM!" I could have murdered someone, I swear! Ha! Instead, I took a deep breath, told her I was right there, go back to sleep, picked Finn back up (who was now wide awake) and nursed him again. Ugh I was up for like an hour and a half! Wanted to scream!!

So. Question. I don't think I did as much googling and relied a lot more on sites like kellymom and mdc last time, but everything I'm seeing on the internet says that b/w 4-6 months, you can stop nursing during the night? What's up with that? Is that mainstream advice for ppl who don't cosleep or something? I didn't nightwean Nora until she was well past one (isn't that what Dr. Jay Gordon recommends?). Annie - is this what you're friends are doing by dropping feedings? I'm just really confused. How else would I get him back to sleep? I'm asking more hypothetically b/c I'm not about to do this, I'm just surprised that this is the advice that's out there.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Question. I don't think I did as much googling and relied a lot more on sites like kellymom and mdc last time, but everything I'm seeing on the internet says that b/w 4-6 months, you can stop nursing during the night? What's up with that? Is that mainstream advice for ppl who don't cosleep or something? I didn't nightwean Nora until she was well past one (isn't that what Dr. Jay Gordon recommends?). Annie - is this what you're friends are doing by dropping feedings? I'm just really confused. How else would I get him back to sleep? I'm asking more hypothetically b/c I'm not about to do this, I'm just surprised that this is the advice that's out there.


i think it's nothing more than hold outs to the thinking that you have to train baby to sleep through the night. i read something yesterday that said babies start sleeping through the night at 1-3 months. i really wonder where that came from?

when ethan was around 4 months his ped asked me if he was sleeping through the night. when i said no, he told me to put a partition up in between me and him in the bedroom. that way he would think he was alone and go back to sleep. he didn't know we bed shared so assumed ethan was in a bassinet or crib in our room. when i questioned him about crying he said to just let him cry. he'd stop after a few minutes and fall asleep. of course, the whole scenario was to set it up to look like he had been abandoned. i couldn't believe it.

didn't you post something on FB about why it's important to feed your 4-5 month old at night?

oh, and on the hazelwood and eczema, ethan won't wear his necklace. i'm wearing it now to see if it helps with my tummy problems. no change yet.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> didn't you post something on FB about why it's important to feed your 4-5 month old at night?


Probably!







I'm all over the place!! And of course like I said I would never follow the advice thats out there. I'm just saying I can't believe it's so prevalent!

bummer he won't wear the necklace.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes* 

I like the feel of the family doctor so much better. Seriously thinking of switching myself, DH and both kids to go there instead. The same man stitched my sliced up finger, treated Finn's ear, and saw Nora as well. I like that.

I'm currently 'avoiding' that fight with DH's family. Apparently the whole family secretly thinks (and has been telling DH but not saying anything to me) that we should be seeing a ped for DD and not my GP (and we tried reallllly hard ot get my GP to accept her as a patient). I asked DH why, and he said apparently they all think that we should be seeing a ped since they are more familiar with children. To me that just seems kind of like an excuse because really... anatomy is the same... so unless we actually had an issue, I'm fairly confident on her ability to check DD's weight, eyes, ears, spine, hb, etc. I mean seriously, the woman has four children herself (all breastfed and seems to be AP) and used to deliver babies (she stopped when the hospital nearest her office stopped delivering). I just think it's one of those where they hear "babies need peds" and just go with it. But I'm like you-- I like the fact that DD and I see the same doctor and she knows our family. And we have a history! I've been seeing her since I was 8, when she took over the practice from the GP before her... who delivered me. I've never had problems, so if it a'int broke, don't fix it, you know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

Anyway, I didn't mean to turn this into me whining. I was trying to let you know that I think almost every mom feels that sometimes and it's ok to take a minute or two.


> That reminds me that I've been meaning to mention the wonderful diaper rash stick I have. I do have a Grovia stick and it's ok. But I have one by Naturally Luxe, a home business.


Oh I don't think that at all. It's nice to know others go through the same things.

Poor DD had a hard night last night. She tried to sleep, and did well until her second wakeup, and then she couldn't go back to sleep because she had to poop and couldn't. Poor girl was sooo upset, and we tried everything and couldn't get her to go, so she slept in 20 minute spurts. At least that though, I totally understand, it's not a sleep issue really, it's a body issue, so it feels so much easier to deal with.

Is that stick ok on the cloth? What other creams do you guys use that are ok for the cloth? Right now we're using sudocrem when we need it, just because we got a sample of it, and it seems like there's enough there to last several months. But we have to put a sposie on whenever we use it (which works for DH because he prefers sposies, and is the one 95% of the time who proclaims she needs cream lol)

Carrie-- I think the baby whisperer book says that at around 6 weeks you should be able to drop one feeding, and only do one per night. That seemed early to me, especially since she's talking about actively trying to work towards that. But DD went through the whole night the other day with only one feed, and if we were counting 'typical' times-- ie getting up at 7 or 8 unstead of 10 or 11 like we do, then technically there's been several times where she only wakes up once. So I suppose I can see how you would be able to night wean by 6 months, but it doesn't seem totally practical to me, and I don't think it's something anyone should ever really actively work towards. It seems to me like limiting the night feeds would mean DC would wake earlier in the morning, because they'd want their darn milk!

And agreed, I don't know how you'd get him back to sleep at this age and at that time. During the day I can walk around a bit and settle DD back to sleep if she's been sleeping on me. But if I have to pick her up from somewhere, there's no getting her back to sleep without nursing again. And at night, it takes fractions of the time to nurse her back to sleep than it does to soothe her back.

Just got naother post notification... off to read!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

re: STTN/Nightweaning - most books - even mainstream ones - confirm "STTN" is really only 5-6 hours, not 8-12, so sure, by 3 months many babies will regularly give you that long a stretch at night.

DS woke about once a night to nurse until he was weaned at 15 months. that really never stopped. I don't know that I'd expect it to. Not saying it's not possible, just unlikely. And since I nearly always need to wake at least once to pee . . . it's not like I'm losing sleep!

Why! do peds think it's ok for babies to go without nightfeeds??? I question this because, you know, sometimes *I* am hungry at 12 or 1 a.m. and if a grown person can be hungry, why can't a baby? and it's not like a baby really understands "wait till breakfast". Not that my tummy does either, LOL

Stick with the family doctor. why not?

As for how you get a kid back to sleep - cuddles and rocking have been our methods of choice for DS when he wakes. Sometimes he needs a drink.

MW: you know, I do that - roll over. I figure if DD doesn't fuss, she's really ok. and sometimes I do really need to switch sides.

We've been using the Method diaper cream with DS. It is likely not perfectly CD friendly, but it's a lot creamier than burts bees or butt paste, and it's cheap! and it works great. Once DS gets through this rash of diaper rash, I'll just strip diapers. it's about time for that anyway. Or you can use liners, I'm just lazy:bagoverhead:


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> So. Question. I don't think I did as much googling and relied a lot more on sites like kellymom and mdc last time, but everything I'm seeing on the internet says that b/w 4-6 months, you can stop nursing during the night? What's up with that? Is that mainstream advice for ppl who don't cosleep or something? I didn't nightwean Nora until she was well past one (isn't that what Dr. Jay Gordon recommends?). Annie - is this what you're friends are doing by dropping feedings? I'm just really confused. How else would I get him back to sleep? I'm asking more hypothetically b/c I'm not about to do this, I'm just surprised that this is the advice that's out there.


I totally wonder about this myself! I have no idea........and exactly for that reason. How the heck else are you supposed to get a baby back to bed? IME at least, that is all they want 9 times out of 10 (I mean, by that age). A still wakes up a few times a night, and all she does is nurse and go back to bed. She sleeps next to me in her crib, not because I am an avid cosleeper, but because I am waaaaaay to damn lazy to try and listen out for a baby in another room, to then have to walk my sleepy butt to said other room to nurse and then back again!!!!! People make things waaaaay harder on themselves to say the least.....

JJ - yes, it will get better, worse, better, worse and better again







That is one thing I have learned in parenting is to just *be* in the moment. Yeah, you may or may not get sleep. Yes, you may get woken up to the fact that one of your children has puked for the 5th night in a row (luckily we seem to have finally gotten over that! knock on wood of course) but if you just enjoy it to whatever extent you can, life is much better









I think it really comes down to how you think about things. Like A was up alot more than usual due to getting her top tooth (did I ever tell you ladies that her bottom two FINALLY came in about a month ago! took forever!) and I always try to think about how nice it is to snuggle with her and how big and cute she's getting rather than "I have to freaking work tomorrow!!!! I am going to be soooo exhausted!!" Of course, a lot of times it doesn't work and you are totally still







the next day.

One day we will all be old ladies with grown ass kids.............keep the goal in mind........ha ha ha

It has seriously taken me three hours to write this. I bet I have missed 20 posts.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

The Grovia and Naturally Luxe sticks are specially designed for cloth diapers. They both have natural vegetable and essential oils and that's it.

Kat ~ That's exactly what I was thinking today about baby night feedings. How does anyone else know that baby isn't really hungry or doesn't really need to eat? I don't expect anyone to know when I'm hungry or to tell me that I'm not when I act like I am. And, yeah, my body doesn't always follow an eating schedule, either. Sometimes I get hungry 20 minutes after eating a meal and sometimes I don't get hungry for several hours.

I think it can be dangerous to breastfeeding and to the growth and development of the baby to nightwean before a year. If baby stops waking and nursing at night at any time after 6 months, that's fine, but I don't think that mom should refuse feedings. Ethan didn't sleep through the night until he was 2 but I think Kellen was sleeping through the night by the time he was 6 months. Different babies have different needs.

annie ~ ITA. Things get easy and then hard and then easy and then hard with a baby, always changing. I got a few 5 hour stretches of sleep at night when Dylan was 2-3 months old but not anymore.

Yay for teeth finally coming in!

I'm sure I'm forgetting something but I can't go back to the last page to recheck everyone's posts.

Dylan got a clean bill of health today. No wheezing or congestion sounds in his chest anymore. His right ear is just a tiny bit pink but it looks much better than last week and the left ear looks normal. I need to make some more garlic drops and keep using them for a few more days, I think. It's pretty cool to get confirmation that abx were not needed for his ears and that maybe the garlic drops actually helped.

Oh, that reminds me of the other thing. I would totally go with a GP or FP over a ped if I could find one. I was doing that for a while, taking everyone to an urgent care place that also did appointments and would act as a PCP but it was bought by a new company and I don't like the new docs. The only problem I've had with private practice GPs around here is that they don't always do same day sick appointments. I can call the pediatrician in the morning and be seen by that afternoon. I can even just walk in if I want. Can't do that at the GP here.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I just can't imagine not feeding DD if she woke up in the middle of the night. She's not waking up to play, she's hungry! Good grief! She stirs sometimes and I put her paci in her mouth and she will fall back asleep. But if she wakes up, wakes up? It's because she's hungry. She is down to just 1-2 wakings per night now. Typically she goes to sleep between 8-9 PM for DH and then I do a dream feed with her around 12:30-1AM when I get home. Sometimes she wakes up when I walk in the door. Then she will either wake around 4 AM to eat or sleep until 6 AM. When she wakes up for either of those times, she usually just eats and goes right back to sleep. That is unless I don't have any milk out and I need to pump. Then she sits in her rocker and watches me while I pump. I call her my supervisor!







She makes sure I put her bottles together the right way too!

JJ, I'm glad you guys are getting to a better place. I've said for a long time that whoever designed babies sure knew what they were doing! Just when you reach your breaking point and think you can't do this another day, that's when they start interacting and being all cute! Your DD is right around 7 weeks right? That's when it happened for us too. Suddenly you have this little human on your hands instead of this screaming demanding mini tyrant who hates everything you do! But like MW was saying, there will be good days and bad days. Even with my older kids there are good days and bad days. That's what coffee and wine are for...the bad days!









We use a pedi office for DD because they are open 7 days a week (and past 5 PM) and I can call and get same day appointments. We use the same practice for the older kids and it sure is nice to be able to call and talk to a nurse at 8 PM and not have to go to urgent care or the ER.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> We use a pedi office for DD because they are open 7 days a week (and past 5 PM) and I can call and get same day appointments. We use the same practice for the older kids and it sure is nice to be able to call and talk to a nurse at 8 PM and not have to go to urgent care or the ER.


That's awesome. We can get same day sick visits with our ped, which is great, but off hours the call center is a very dumb hospital nurses station. They basically tell you to bring them to the ER for everything. It's obnoxious and after the catastrophe with Finn's "heart murmur" and all the nonsense they gave me about the bilirubin (which we never did) made me want to switch providers anyway. So there's that too.

Annie - Finn got the prevnar 13 today. I'll lyk if he spikes a fever. Are you thinking of not continuing the series for Ava?

Did you guys get a form about how they changed the dosage on acetaminophen?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> That's awesome. We can get same day sick visits with our ped, which is great, but off hours the call center is a very dumb hospital nurses station. They basically tell you to bring them to the ER for everything. It's obnoxious and after the catastrophe with Finn's "heart murmur" and all the nonsense they gave me about the bilirubin (which we never did) made me want to switch providers anyway. So there's that too.
> 
> ...


Is this his first dose? She did ok with the first dose, it was the second dose that caused the fever spike and elevated WBC count. I'm definitely not going to be doing it next month when she's supposed to get it, that's for sure. I'll probably delay it until after her next surgery if I finish it at all.

I haven't seen any new dosage form but I usually call and ask one of the pedi nurses if I have a question about how much to give DD.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Yes this is his first dose. Good to know, I'll def watch for that when he gets his 2nd.

I didn't even think they could have tylenol this young. I didn't even purchase it yet. DH is grabbing some while he's out just in case.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Yes this is his first dose. Good to know, I'll def watch for that when he gets his 2nd.
> 
> I didn't even think they could have tylenol this young. I didn't even purchase it yet. DH is grabbing some while he's out just in case.


Yes, it's by weight so if you aren't sure, have your DH ask the pharmacist where he buys it. They can figure out how much to give him.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> JJ, Suddenly you have this little human on your hands instead of this screaming demanding mini tyrant who hates everything you do!
> 
> We use a pedi office for DD because they are open 7 days a week (and past 5 PM) and I can call and get same day appointments. We use the same practice for the older kids and it sure is nice to be able to call and talk to a nurse at 8 PM and not have to go to urgent care or the ER.


So true! She's 5.5 weeks btw, but she's growing up so so fast, it's crazy!

See that would be a definite benefit to a ped over my GP (whose hours suck, but I've never needed to use them....). We would likely just end up going to a walk in, but then again-- I've never had to call in with an infant/child sickness, so maybe she would be able to squeeze us in. It might be worth asking her at the next appointment. Which speaking of- they're going to be so angry at us. lol We haven't booked her 2 month appointment yet, and it should in theory be in the next 3 weeks. She normally books super in advance for checkups, as I think she only does them one day a week, and the other days are for 'problems'. I'm not worried about not getting in a 2 months, especially since we won't be doing any vaxes that visit... but I think the nurses will cause a fuss.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

what Annie said about tylenol dosing. it's by weight rather than age, although i think it also says 6 months on it. in Finn's case, probably most 4-5 month olds couldn't take it because they aren't big enough, but i know he is because dylan is. they gave me some for him on the way out of the ER. i took it even though i didn't plan to use it because it's free and i can use it for everyone.

carrie ~ we have a nurse hotline. they also tell you to go to the ER for everything. i wonder if that's the policy for babies.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Huh. I didn't realize there was anything on there about 6 months or older. DD has been getting tylenol since she was four days old although they prefer to give it as a suppository in the hospital. No wonder the pharmacist looked at me like I had three heads when I asked her for dosing info for DD when she was just out of the hospital! Hahahaha!


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Huh. I didn't realize there was anything on there about 6 months or older. DD has been getting tylenol since she was four days old although they prefer to give it as a suppository in the hospital. No wonder the pharmacist looked at me like I had three heads when I asked her for dosing info for DD when she was just out of the hospital! Hahahaha!


I know when I was delaying shots for J (before I knew I was skipping them all together! LOL) they told me at her 1 month appt. to be sure to pick up tylenol for her two month appt. and to give her .04 before I came in. I told them I wasn't giving her shots at the 2 month appt.

I think once again it is just a case of not thinking the general public can make an educated decision so they say don't give it to them at all. Which may be the case.........


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I don't even have baby tylenol/motrin/anyfeverreducer in the house. I figure, if we really need it, there are at least 4 pharmacies within a 10 minute drive, and Walmart. I viewed it almost like formula - if I really need it, I have access to it, I don't need it in the house or to spend $$ on it JIC. But especially since our LO's are unvaxed . . .there are less opportunities for them to get fevers, esp the kind you kind of expect - like post shots. So I have no clue on the dosing, other than infants tylenol is more concentrated than childrens.

JJ: almost 6 weeks! and could you imagine going back to work then??? I am so glad I was able to take an extra 2 weeks.

maybe TMI, but I dont know what it is, but DH and I have DTD more frequently and regularly the last few weeks than we have our whole marriage. which you wouldnt think would be the case after baby #2. I just hope we can maintain it!

Totally 1HT BTW.

no plans this weekend, but I want some!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> Which speaking of- they're going to be so angry at us. lol We haven't booked her 2 month appointment yet, and it should in theory be in the next 3 weeks. She normally books super in advance for checkups, as I think she only does them one day a week, and the other days are for 'problems'. I'm not worried about not getting in a 2 months, especially since we won't be doing any vaxes that visit... but I think the nurses will cause a fuss.


Hopefully not! I think most ppl get off schedule with WBV in the early months. Especially once you have other kids too. We're so far off the WBV schedule. Finn is like 5 months and has his 3 month one a couple weeks ago. I asked why they don't just skip the ones we miss and they're all "ooohhh nooo we have to do it this wayyy" which I think is silly. He's obv not 3 months old and is doing 5 month old things. Can't we talk about who he is NOW instead of who he should have been a few months ago??

Anyway, I hope they don't give you trouble. Have you thought more about the first vaccines you'll do? So far Finn has had one of each that's he's supposed to. The dr yesterday reminded me about the combo shot when I told her I wanted the IPV and Prevnar. I said no thank you, I would rather do the separate ones. She hesitated for like a fraction of a second and then was just like, fine. (She wasn't our normal doc, she seemed a little cranky). Whatever lady. I just wanted my kids ears checked, I don't need your vax commentary. Adios.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> what Annie said about tylenol dosing. it's by weight rather than age, although i think it also says 6 months on it. in Finn's case, probably most 4-5 month olds couldn't take it because they aren't big enough, but i know he is because dylan is. they gave me some for him on the way out of the ER. i took it even though i didn't plan to use it because it's free and i can use it for everyone.
> carrie ~ we have a nurse hotline. they also tell you to go to the ER for everything. i wonder if that's the policy for babies.


Yup- they gave me a nifty little sheet with the dosing info on it, b/c there apparently is old infant concentrated drops and newer infant oral suspension. Plus all the boxes now say for ages 2 and up. There is NOTHING on there for an actual infant, it says call the dr. So now I have the weight class dosing. BTW Finn is in the 12-23 month old dosing. Holy LORD.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> maybe TMI, but I dont know what it is, but DH and I have DTD more frequently and regularly the last few weeks than we have our whole marriage. which you wouldnt think would be the case after baby #2. I just hope we can maintain it!


TMI or not I'm jealous! DH and I never seem to want to dtd at the same time. LOL. He wants it at quarter to midnight and I'm like noooo effing way, I'm going to BED, whereas in the middle of the day it's, like all I can think about. But he and I need to get back our intimacy, b/c right now we're like roommates. Sucks.

He's going away for 3 entire days next week. I admit I'm nervous about it. Idk why, considering Nora doesn't let him help with much anyway. Mostly I'm just going to let the housework slide, and prob order pizza instead of bothering to cook. 2 of those days Nora has school so that will be helpful. She seems to be adjusting to school, which is good. I'm hoping it continues to get more fun for her (and easier for both of us).

No plans this weekend either, but definitely continuing to declutter and clean and feel proactive in our house search. I've found a few nice houses but their kitchens SUCK. What's up with that??


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

DH and I are super picky about kitchens. we both DETEST white- white cabinets, white countertops, etc. I can deal with white appliances and white walls, those are relatively easy to change. and I really don't want to deal with wallpaper. Unfortunately, here there is a lot of all those things.

And as much as I love the LOOK of stainless steel, it's not so great for kiddie fingerprints (or grown up ones either!) so I think I would do black instead, or maybe only the stove stainless, and the fridge and dw black (most fingerprint/water/steam prone). I'm dreaming anyway . . .

With DH: I tell him I'm going to bed - which lately has been about 11 - 11:30. His choice to catch me while I'm awake or not, LOL. mid day is problematic as his dad is usually around somewhere, and awake, and the kids . . . well.

JJ: I don't know if it's different b/c its Canada, but DD missed her 2 month one, and I don't know if we'll go back for more WBV; if she's sick enough I might take her. DS never had any past 4 months and we never got any flack about it, and we go to church with one of the peds in that office and are good friends with one of the billing/tech guys (who, because he is our friend, and does billing, obv notices there aren't any new dates for our son) - so I think if they really thought there was something to be concerned about, would let us know (like if they would need to report us for neglect or something) 

Carrie: that is silly, I mean, why don't they just call it what it is? unless they need to code it a certain way for insurance purposes?

Enjoy your pizza! would also get some easy heat and eat things. I've had some of the amy's kitchen things and they are pretty yummy.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I have the old concentrated infant drops, I guess. I haven't bought any in years. Also, I have ibuprofen, not acetaminophen. I don't think acetaminophen works as well, at least not for me. I just checked the bottle. It has doses for 12-17 lbs. (6-12 months) and whatever weight limit age range is after that. I don't remember. For younger, smaller babies, it says to consult a doctor.

Did they discontinue the concentrated drops? At the hospital they gave me the oral suspension. The guy asked if I had any question and I was surprised at how much the dose was until I realized it wasn't the concentrated stuff. I'm used to giving a tiny half-dropper full (less than 1 ml, I think) and this guy was telling me to give him 4 ml or something like that!

The doc yesterday mentioned bringing D in his for his WBV. I told her we missed the 4 month one so she went on about getting him for the next, 6 months, I guess, and then 9 months and then 12. She started to say we'd need to catch up because he missed some vaxes until I told her we don't vax. She was really cool about. Just said, "Oh, ok, then we can just start with the 6 month and go from there." I think I might take him in just because I'm starting to really like these docs again. I sure would like to have a resource other than the ER or some random walk-in urgent care place for serious concerns that I have. I'm even considering making appointments for Ethan and Kellen. Eh, who am i kidding? I'll probably never get around to actually making them.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

LOL... yes... like how I've been meaning to make DD's appointment for 3 weeks now. The funny thing is, I actually do want to go to -this- visit, because I'm curious to talk to her about the reflux, and also I want to see her weight again. After this one though... I think we'll probably postpone the next one a bit. She pretty much admitted that the visits are timed for the vaxes... and so if we're not starting them yet, then I don't see a point for us right now to go.

DD would --not-- sleep yesterday evening and I can't for the life of me figure out what was wrong. From about 4pm until midnight she didn't sleep more than 10 minutes at a time, and was continually fussy the whole time. She'd root to nurse, but then would only nurse for two minutes or so, and then start playing around and chewing and hurting me. I'd pull her off, calm her, and then try again, but same thing. She didn't want to sleep, she wasn't hungry, we changed her... she just wanted to be fussy pants for the day. I can't imagine how tired she must have been by midnight when she finally slept for an extended period. Poor girl.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

i am so glad i didn't give D the abx for his ear infections! thatgirl i've mentioned a few times who has a baby came over yesterday with her baby. he is so cute and huge, over 24 lbs. at 10 months! she said he had an ear infection so she gave him amoxicillin and now he has a horrible yeast diaper rash. it's all over the inside of his thighs. she's been trying to get rid of it for weeks. when nystatin cream didn't work, the pedi told her to use otc monistat. she said that's working but isn't that a little freaky? idk, maybe not since it is just another fungal infection. still seems weird using a cream made for adults on a baby. although, i guess maybe you can use it for girls? i'm just glad D didn't end up with that.

what do you all do to entertain your 4+ month old babies? D seems to get bored very quickly. if i take him into a different room when he gets fussy, he will stop fussing for a little bit. he lasts only a few minutes at any one of my play stations, as i call them. have you all found anything that keeps the babies happy for more than a few minutes, even 20 minutes would be nice so that i'm not constantly getting up and down and moving him around.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> Carrie-- I think the baby whisperer book says that at around 6 weeks you should be able to drop one feeding, and only do one per night. That seemed early to me, especially since she's talking about actively trying to work towards that.


JJ - I was googling a bit and didn't realize how similar this Baby Whisperer is to the dreaded and widely criticized BabyWise. I know you know to listen to Tenley -- just, I got chills when I realized how similar the techniques and advice are. Baby Wise is known to cause dehydration and FTT in babies b/c of the feeding schedules, so your gut was right. That's VERY early to drop a feeding. You might want to find a new baby book!

I was googling b/c I need advice on how to wean Finn from swaddling. He can't seem to settle even with one arm out. I put him down asleep -- I just can't put him down awake. It doesn't work. I nurse him to sleep, put him down, and with his arms free he just wakes up. I had this problem with DD too. This whole leaving them to fall asleep on their own baffles me. I think it depends on the babies personality and I don't think my babies come that way.

Either way, I need advice if anyone has it. I might just do the one arm out bit for awhile and see. OMG I was reading a blog and it seemed like good advice until the mom was like, she let her 10 week old CIO for 45 MINUTES (!!!) in the middle of his nap b/c he was supposed to nap for longer (so says Babywise) and I nearly felt ill. I just can't believe how dumb some ppl are. Anyway, I digress, I might jst try the one arm out, alternating arms. I mean, the other day he got free and just sucked his thumb, right? Maybe it won't be so horrible?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

carrie ~ after D nurses in the middle of the night, he rolls onto his back so i figured i'd try leaving him that way. i had been flipping him to his stomach because he was staying asleep longer like that. lately, though, sometimes he'll wake back up when i flip him and i have to nurse him more. but he doesn't stay asleep long on his back. he still startles himself awake. i don't know of anything i can do about that. not exactly what you were asking but similar.

that is scary stuff about the Baby Whisperer. I always recommend any of Dr. Sears' books. I like his big Baby Book because it covers everything. He does have smaller more specific books, like one dedicated to AP, so he might have one on baby sleep. You can always check his website, too. There's also The No Cry Sleep Solution. A lot of people on here were into that book. I got it but didn't like it because it still seemed a bit too much like sleep training to me (and it seemed to be a lot of work keeping a daily journal of your baby's routines, which you all probably know I'm not going to do







). It's supposed to be very gentle and really just learning how to work with your baby's own routine and internal clock rather than trying to get baby to fit into an external, arbitrary schedule.

JJ ~ If you'd like it, I'll send it to you. I wouldn't pass it on to just anyone because I'd be afraid they'd get too rigid with it but I think you have enough sense not to do that.

Ethan's birthday is sneaking up on me and I have no idea what to do. I've scheduled his party at the bowling alley. I need to get him some presents. It's so hard to find things for him this soon after Christmas. I feel like I've just given him everything he wants so there's nothing left. When I ask, he says he wants video games. If I get him that, he'll only get one, maybe two, because they are so expensive. Not to mention that I have no idea which games are any good.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Oh definitely. The baby whispered book is not one I would have picked, but a relative brought it over. I finished reading it, and really I think the only things I can take away from it are to keep a pattern to her day-- ie we try now to stick with nurse, change, play, sleep, and then repeat. There's no set time for it, but it helped to stop nursing her to sleep, because now she's easier to get to sleep other ways- I can play with her for a bit, and then soothe her to sleep (during the day) whereas before she -did not- know how to go to sleep if she hadn't fallen asleep nursing. That's a nice change. The only other thing was a huge reminder not to start anything we don't intend to follow through on-- makes sense, right. You don't want your baby to get used to something, only to take that routine/comfort item from them. Now in her case, she says that babies should be put down awake, and shush/patted in their bed until they fall asleep. Right the first night we nixxed that. I don't --mind-- cuddling my baby to sleep, and no, I don't think I'll mind even at a year, or two years if needed. So we shush/pat/rub while she's in our arms and then put her down if we need to. But it reminded me not to go crazy with other techniques- walking the house while simulataneously singing and bouncing, with white noise and black out curtains-- it's just too much, you know? So if she doesn't fall asleep right away to us just cuddling and rubbing her back, then we take her into her room and sit ni the chair while we put her to sleep. Now-- that's not saying that at bad times we won't try other techniques when she's super upset, but not as part of a normal sleep routine.

She's thinly veiled anti-breastfeeding, which was so weird to see in a book. It makes you realize why some of her suggestions are so bogus after you read the chapter on feeding and realize that. You've got to take it with a grain of salt.

I'm waiting on the sears vaccine book from the library. I checked our library for the sears big baby book last time, but even though they said it was there, it wasn't on the shelf. I'll have to check again for it. They've got the no cry sleep solution too, but I wasn't sure about it. Any other specific books that you guys would really recommend? I have yet to find a good -baby- book I like. Lots of pregnancy ones, but not so much for the infant stage.

I hate video games as gifts as well, for exactly that same reason. Evcen when it's what they really want, it sucks having only one 'small' thing to wrap/unwrap.

I can't imagine letting them CIO for 45 minutes. DD was super super fussy last night and I was home alone, so after two hours I put her down and went downstairs to flip over the laundry. I just needed a couple minutes to myself. By the time I got back, which had been like... 4 minutes, I felt horrible already. I can't imagine doing it as a first choice for so long. If DH had been here I would have passed her off, but he wasn't.

We have problems with DD on her back as well when she's unswaddled. When she's on us, she almost always sleeps on her tummy, or on her side. When we put her down in the bassinet she sleeps on her side supported. If we put her on her back, even swaddled, it's usually a shorter sleep. She doesn't need to be swaddled all the time though, so I think we're lucky. How is he with rolling over, I don't remember. Could you try his arms out, and on his side. Tenley seems to startle less on her side.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

oh, and I'd love ideas for playing. She... doesn't. She'll smile at us for a couple minutes, but how else do you fill the awake time? I know she won't play with toys per se, but if she's supposed to be up for several hours a day, what do you do with the time?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

again, JJ, ad nauseum







, in a sling you could maybe flip that laundry without having to leave her crying. of course, i know if you need to get away from the crying for just a few minutes when you are on your own.

the only baby books i can strongly recommend are dr. sears the baby book and LLL's womanly art of breastfeeding. it sounds like it's all about breastfeeding but it encompasses a lot of baby care. oh, if you do make it to a LLL meeting, they usually have a library of books you can check. you can be very assured that they will be BF friendly and pretty assured they will be AP friendly.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Yeah I put the laundry in while she was in the wrap, but I needed the couple minutes to regroup myself and smile again.

I had TWAOB right ebfore she was born, but don't remember the baby part of it. Ill have to check it out again.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh good. Ok, I'm glad at least you're well aware. The best anyone can do is read a bunch and decide what will work for them and their baby.

Hmm, what to do with baby. Finn spends time in his chair or jumper watching me do things. Clean, do dishes, vacuum. He loves the vacuum. Otherwise, on his play mat, we do toys, peekaboo, take pictures. Sometimes I'll read to both kids and hold him on my lap.

I'm starting to feel like a lousy home maker. I realized lately that I clean all the time but everything is still a mess. I have no organizational skills. I used to be an admin assistant, but I wasn't even a very good one. :-( Does anyone have ideas or tips on better home management? I feel like I've been a sahm for a while now, but I'm acting like it's just an excuse not to work and hang out with my kids. I want to approach my home like a job, one with wonderful vent benefits, my children. But where do I begin?

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ I checked my Dr. Sears AP book but there wasn't anything in there about playing. I think at 5+ weeks babies don't do much. They like to look at faces. Maybe a mirror or books with pictures of baby faces would interest her. Dylan likes those.

Carrie ~ I told Sean when he joined the Marines I would quit working and become the happy home maker. That didn't last long. Taking care of kids take so much time there isn't much left to take care of the home. I had to reassess things with Sean. My primary job is taking care of the kids. Taking care of the home is our job together. I do more because I'm home more but it isn't much, maybe an extra load of laundry and sweeping a floor. Ethan has wanted to have friends over and I keep telling him that once we have the house presentable, he can. We clean one more but they destroy another. I have yet to figure out how to get that under control. I don't have anything to help you except to say that your job is not home maker. It is child care worker. The home making has to fall on both you and your husband.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I've heard very good things about flylady for organization/cleaning, but I can't really vouch. I never make it past day 2. lol. I'm the queen of lists though. I keep a whiteboard and keep track of every little thing I need to do. Of course none of that is happening right now... but eventually I'll get back to it! lol

Hmmm, yeah for play it's hard because she won't settle in her chair, or on the couch or anything. We can get a few minutes out of her of just making faces back and forth, but most of the time, even that won't please her. She likes watching hockey! lol that's about the only thing that holds her attention. She likes the movement and the colors on the big tv. lol. But there's only so much hockey I can let her watch. We've tried dangling toys etc for the same effect and nada. She takes after her daddy. lol.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Baby_Cakes I was going to suggest trying to get him to sleep on his side too. That's how DD sleeps if I am not holding her. No help with breaking the swaddle addiction. Ava gave hers up around 14 weeks. Play ideas: MW for our age babies, there'snot much to keep their attention for longer than 10 mins or so. DD will play on her mat while I pump but then she is bored. She likes to sit in her rocker while I load the dishwasher or wash bottles. She really only stays awake for about an hourbat a time so by the time ww rotate through a couple of things, change diaper/go potty,she is ready to eat again and go back to sleep. JJ, when DD was that age, I would sing a couple of preschool songs to her or she liked looking at black and white patterns. She mostly just liked to sit and look at me.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Dylan stays up for a couple of hours at a time now. That's a lot of time to fill trying to entertain him. He's really good first thing in the morning. He'll lay on his mat for quite a while and be perfectly happy and entertained. But as the day progresses, he gets less and less happy with everything. And, of course, I get more and more tired as the day progresses so things are pretty crazy by dinner time.

i did flylady for about a year when i was pg with kellen and a little after. i think it's good if you need help doing daily cleaning. it's not so good for initially getting things organized. she tells you what to clean and when to clean it but not really much on where to put it or how to store things.

i need help organizing all the toys in our house. after 3 kids, we have accumulated a lot. Every once in a great while I"ll get things somewhat organized. Most of the toys are together in the correct places. But it's impossible to keep things that way. In just a few minutes, the boys can go through and completely destroy a room.

The boys will go through their things when I ask and fill a box or bag with toys to throw out. It doesn't seem to make a dent.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Dylan peed in the sink today! for once, i actually got to lay down and nap with him. when he woke up it occurred to me to check his diaper and he was dry. i rushed him to the sink and after only a few seconds he peed. of course, i have to do that regularly for it to matter.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

My MIL is OCD about cleaning so the house is clean always. She sucks at organizing. I like to organize, but sine it's not really MY house, it feels weird to do it. I think my biggest tip is just do it. So easy to put off. Go through your Keep pile at least twice. Beyond that, you will find different tips and tricks, you just have to find what works for you.

Norah mostly sleep on her side. She likes it and it just makes the most sense.

Play: she loves the mirror! Gabe didn't, but she does. In another month or so, I will bring down the exersaucer. But as long as she's happy, I really don't know how much she*needs* to play. Right now she's really thrilled with exploring her hands.

Bysy week ahead, trying to juggle all the things I *want* to do with work.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Carrie ~ I told Sean when he joined the Marines I would quit working and become the happy home maker. That didn't last long. Taking care of kids take so much time there isn't much left to take care of the home. I had to reassess things with Sean. My primary job is taking care of the kids. *Taking care of the home is our job together.* I do more because I'm home more but it isn't much, maybe an extra load of laundry and sweeping a floor. Ethan has wanted to have friends over and I keep telling him that once we have the house presentable, he can. We clean one more but they destroy another. I have yet to figure out how to get that under control. I don't have anything to help you except to say that your job is not home maker. It is child care worker. The home making has to fall on both you and your husband.


ITA it's our job together, but I think it should be my role to pave the way and come up with some sort of routine so we aren't constantly drowning. DH is a pack rat and he's very emotionally attached to things. If I could parse through things, and get him to do the same, and then have a method so it doesn't happen again, maybe we could do this. You know? And I would still expect him to do the garbage/recycling, but on the same token he expects me to do the dishes and the bathroom. Usually he even cooks, so that's not an issue.

My status on FB has been so helpful. So many links and friends seem to have similar issues, which makes me feel like less of a hot mess. I just really dislike never being able to have company over, or feeling embarrassed by the situation. When my friend came over after Finn was born, she offered to do something -- she was like, can I clean your kitchen, throw in some wash? I almost began crying b/c I didn't even want her to SEE my laundry area or kitchen. I'm so ashamed of it all!! In the end I allowed her to tidy Nora's room. It was so nice not to have to do that.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Baby_Cakes I was going to suggest trying to get him to sleep on his side too. That's how DD sleeps if I am not holding her. No help with breaking the swaddle addiction. Ava gave hers up around 14 weeks.


He actually does usually roll to his side. He likes to lay with his face up against the side rail (against the bed). His cosleeper is still on an incline, so he's basically resting his cheek on the top. (It's so cute.)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Dylan stays up for a couple of hours at a time now. That's a lot of time to fill trying to entertain him. He's really good first thing in the morning. He'll lay on his mat for quite a while and be perfectly happy and entertained. But as the day progresses, he gets less and less happy with everything. And, of course, I get more and more tired as the day progresses so things are pretty crazy by dinner time.


Yup, that's how it is here too. Finn has just about had it with all his stuff by midday! Ha! We have to get creative and my juices aren't flowing as fast!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> My MIL is OCD about cleaning so the house is clean always. She sucks at organizing. I like to organize, but sine it's not really MY house, it feels weird to do it. I think my biggest tip is just do it. So easy to put off. Go through your Keep pile at least twice. Beyond that, you will find different tips and tricks, you just have to find what works for you.


Just doing it is really key! I just have trouble finding where to start.

I found quite a few checklists on line of things to do daily and things to do weekly. That's exactly what I need. I feel like so many organization blogs and things are focused on making cute boxes or labels for boxes, or look at this wonderful scarf organizer I made! When I don't need that. I need to know what I'm doing wrong that I'm always cleaning and cleaning and it's getting worse and worse! But simple lists, like wipe your sink down, do the dishes, vaccum daily. "Do laundry daily but make Monday laundry day for sheets and blankets" -- that's what I need! Something to help me get the bigger things DONE b/c I never get to them. I don't even OWN a mop. I've never mopped -- ok maybe ONCE in the 8 years I've lived in my house. Ugh, did I just admit that?







I have Swiffered, though, lol. And Swiffer wet! That gets the kitchen floor pretty clean, right??

LOL. I'm just feeling overwhelmed. I'll get there. Thanks for the sounding board! Keep any and all ideas coming.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

carrie ~ can you share the lists?

Almost daily I: do at least one load of laundry but I can't ever seem to do more than 2 in a day, sweep the kitchen and family room floors and wash dishes. I spot mop these days rather than trying to sweep and mop an entire floor. My downstairs is all wood so there's just no way I can do it all at once. I try to tackle one other room a day but it ends being more like only once or twice a week.

My main embarrassments are the bathrooms that get nasty with 3+ guys using them and all the junk piled on every available surface. I have run out of bookshelf space. I always have a pile of papers on the kitchen counter that just gets moved around because I don't know what to do with the papers. I used to be really good about filing stuff away but not anymore. There's a box of papers that my mom filled up while she was here when I had Dylan that is still sitting on the dining room floor. I don't even know what's in it. Hm...probably because my filing cabinet is upstairs. I wonder if I'd be better at it if I brought it downstairs where I spend 99% of my time. Sean likes to keep papers and it drives me nuts.

There is always stuff just strewn all over my house. Jackets flung on the back of chairs or threaded through the spindles of the stair rail because I come in with my hands full and can't immediately take off my jacket and hang it up. I dreamt last night about getting a coat and shoe rack to put by the front door.









I'm really hoping that when Sean gets home we can spend some time each weekend going through stuff and throwing it out. We went through a lot of stuff before he left and filled a huge box with things to donate but Sean didn't take it anywhere so it sits in the closet. I can't move it. That's one problem with having Sean organize. He gets huge bins and boxes and fills them until they are so heavy that he's the only one who can move them and then he leaves. I have decided I need to get another plastic bin for my yarn. My overflow is still in the mailing bags thrown in a closet and I worry constantly about the cats getting into it because the boys leave the closet door open.

We bought a coffee table that opens on each side from the top and has large storage spaces in it. Problem is I have to clear everything off the table in order to open it so nothing gets put away in there anymore and anything in there doesn't get used.

I need someone to tell me I need to get these bins or shelves or cabinets and put them in this spot and store these things in them. I read that stuff in mags and blogs sometimes but I don't know exactly what to get or where to start. I wish I could afford to have a professional organizer come to my home and set everything up for me.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Here is the most helpful list I've found so far:

http://www.home-ec101.com/clean-it/weekly-chore-schedule/

MW - sooo much to comment on what you said but no time! When I come back tonight I will!!

Oh and I forgot to mention I tried the one-arm-out of the swaddle last night and he slept pretty well. He slept from about 830 til I fed him at 11 or so (he didn't wake up, it was a dream feed), and then again til 2 ish and then again til 4 ish. I finally put both his arms back in after 4 am (he wasn't settling) and he slept til about 645!! Not bad. Especially for trying something new. That would be a good night regardless! I have his arm out for his nap today. He woke right at 45 min but I was able to shhh and put his paci in, and rub the spot b/w his eyes and he went back to sleep. Whew!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie, glad it seems to be working! (the swaddlling thing). Is it just me, or was our generation never really taught things like - you should wash your windows this often, or pull out your fridge/oven and clean under it this often? It's the big things that *should* be done, but when?

I like to mop floors. It's weird, but whatever. I might do it once a year. Maybe twice if the floors gotten really sticky. Oh, and Swiffer wet TOTALLY counts as mopping ::

There are things I really don't believe in organizing. Toys. (except those with small parts, which Gabe isn't old enough for anyway) - what's the point? I also don't believe in matching and folding socks. probablly b/c I really hate doing it. Also really don't like wearing socks, which works when I can wear sandals 10/12 months anyway. We don't make the bed. No one sees it.

If/when we have our own place agan, I am going to make a point of having people over once a week. it's great motivation to get the house tidy and keep it that way. Otherwise, it's super easy to let it slide. (p.s. you don't want to see the inside of my car. it's awful and I refuse to give people rides)

As to where to start organizing. I tend to start in closets and work my way out. But that's because the closet usually is 95% of the battle, the rest of the space is mostly decorative and furniture placement, etc.

LOVE DH's that cook! though I do like to cook, but live in a house with 2 men that like to also, and a baby and toddler that demand my attention, so I don't get the opportunity often. *sigh*


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I was never shown stuff like that, Kat. But then, I wasn't made to do chores at all when I was a kid. If I had the time, I'd clean out the fridge, inside and under the stove and dishwasher once a month. I think you could always fit those things into the spring and fall cleaning categories. Do them at least twice a year. Windows would be once a month, too. I've tried to enlist the boys to clean the windows and dust but they don't last very long and, if I don't watch them the whole time, they'll end up making more mess than cleaning. So, that doesn't help me much and I don't bother any more. I do expect them to help me pick up their toys and sometimes they like to help clean the floors, the bathrooms and the dishes.

I must not be understanding what you all mean by mopping. If I don't mop at least 3 times a week, my kitchen, living room and bathroom floors get disgusting. There's no way I could mop only once or twice a year.

I never bothered trying to organize toys until Ethan started accumulating sets, like Legos and Star Wars and Beyblades. You kind of need all the parts in order to play with them properly. My mom has bought them two microscopes sets that come with the microscope, some preset slides and blank slides so you can make your own, plus things like a dropper and a knife. They have lost almost all the parts for both of them, even some that are supposed to be attached to the microscopes. Random, individual toys just get thrown in a drawer or bin. I had originally tried to keep certain toys upstairs and other ones downstairs but that's so mixed up now that I don't even know what was supposed to be where.

Closets aren't an issue for me because nothing ever gets put in them.







I hate putting things in closets and cabinets because I'm so short that I almost always have to get a stool. Regular homes are definitely not made for short people. Like I said before, my main problem is all the little junk on the tables and counter tops that I just don't know with what to do.

Dylan had a really good night last night. We all went to sleep at about 9:30 but he wouldn't settle at first. Finally, at about 11:30, after trying for 2 hours to get him to settle (he wasn't fussing or crying, he just wouldn't lay still) I got up to go to the bathroom. When I came back he was out on his back. I left him like that and he slept until almost 4 am. He nursed then went back to sleep until about 6, repeat and we got up around 8:30 or so. Unfortunately, I didn't get that much sleep. My body must have gotten so used to only around 4 hours total of sleep every night that it has decided that's all I need. I could not get back to sleep after that 4 am waking. I really don't think I slept at until between then and when I finally got out of bed.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

BLARG! Synagis and DD do not mix! She has been a mess this weekend and I thought it was teething but it seems to be a reaction to the Synagis medication. I had to take her in for an unscheduled clinic visit today because her oxygen levels are low. When we had her last clinic visit on Friday, her doctor said at that point that we should try to get to March before the repair surgery. But after this weekend and her oxygen still being low, today he said that if she doesn't bounce back in a few days then we need to schedule surgery for in a couple of weeks.







I want to say no more Synagis and if DD was an only child and I was a SAHM, I would totally say no more. But since she has big brothers and sisters and they are in school and she goes to the babysitter 4 days a week, I feel like the benefit of protecting her from RSV outweighs the side effects from the medicine. In anyone over 2 years old, RSV just looks like a cold. So I wouldn't be able to tell if someone has RSV to keep them away.

I'm still going to get an amber necklace though to see if that helps with her gums because they do seem to be bothering her too. I did tell her Synagis nurse that I am not letting her get any more vaccines until we are past this Synagis stuff because I can't put her little body through all of this at the same time. She agreed. Her last dose is March.

I try to stay up on cleaning but right now if I can keep the dishes clean, DD's dipes clean and some clothes for us clean, then I consider it good. I do try to clean the bathrooms once a week and vacuum the floor. It's tough to keep things decluttered because we are seven people in 1100 sq ft and DH is a pack rat. Ugh. I throw things away when he isn't home.







Otherwise he goes behind me and checks the trash bags to make sure I'm not throwing away anything "important". After we've lived together so long, I pretty much know what is important and throwing away odd receipts and junk mail is not "important"!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie.

All this talk of cleaning and organizing got me motivated. I did a lot more today than I usually do. You probably wouldn't be able to tell but at least I know I did it.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Carrie, glad it seems to be working! (the swaddlling thing). Is it just me, or was our generation never really taught things like - you should wash your windows this often, or pull out your fridge/oven and clean under it this often? It's the big things that *should* be done, but when?
> 
> ...


I was never taught any sort of house management stuff! It's crazy. I totally agree with you!!

One thing I'm going to work hard to do is wipe down the bathroom every day. Just wipe it down. That way the once a week cleaning won't be much more than that plus the floor/toilet and washing the curtain.

Before we sell, we have to install a bathroom fan, chip away all the peeling pain, mud, and repaint. DH is talking about doing one of those bathfitter deals as well, b/c our shower is in pretty gross shape. There's also a window in the shower that makes no sense. We want to fill it in and do a few glass blocks along the top for light/aesthetics.

I do try to match socks but I have a drawerfull of singles that I periodically go through to match up. It's a never ending battle!

I do make beds daily. It helps the room look pulled together. Even if there are piles of clothes and papers, a made bed makes a room look good!

Toys. Ugh. I've done 2 big purges in Nora's room, and in the living room we have all the baby's toys. So. Right now that's ok with me b/c that's our life. We don't have a playroom or separate space for toys. As long as things get put away before a new toy comes out, I'm good.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Dylan had a really good night last night. We all went to sleep at about 9:30 but he wouldn't settle at first. Finally, at about 11:30, after trying for 2 hours to get him to settle (he wasn't fussing or crying, he just wouldn't lay still) I got up to go to the bathroom. When I came back he was out on his back. I left him like that and he slept until almost 4 am. He nursed then went back to sleep until about 6, repeat and we got up around 8:30 or so. Unfortunately, I didn't get that much sleep. My body must have gotten so used to only around 4 hours total of sleep every night that it has decided that's all I need. I could not get back to sleep after that 4 am waking. I really don't think I slept at until between then and when I finally got out of bed.


Wow - 11-4! Great stretch!! Too bad you couldn't take advantage! Ugh, I hate when that happens. So not fair.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> BLARG! Synagis and DD do not mix! She has been a mess this weekend and I thought it was teething but it seems to be a reaction to the Synagis medication. I had to take her in for an unscheduled clinic visit today because her oxygen levels are low. When we had her last clinic visit on Friday, her doctor said at that point that we should try to get to March before the repair surgery. But after this weekend and her oxygen still being low, today he said that if she doesn't bounce back in a few days then we need to schedule surgery for in a couple of weeks.
> 
> ...










about the RSV stuff. I can't imagine how stressful that is. I would probably do the same, hold off on all other ones until this season is over.

DH is the same with garbage! His dad is the same way too. Funny story - we got a huge gift basket for Christmas, full of Harry and David coffees and chocolate and things. I unloaded the whole thing and put all the items away. All that was left was a nice looking metal pail with some snowmen on it -- pretty, but we don't need it. I asked him to please get rid of it and he hesitated. I said, hon, we don't need a large metal bucket for anything, please just toss it. He agreed. Yesterday I go out to the breezeway to put out some recycles -- and what is sitting on the chair all cleaned out and shiny? That bucket!! WTH!? He can't seem to part with anything that *could be* useful someday. Ugh. I'm getting rid of it. It's CLUTTER.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hooray! Ha!

AFUs - The sleep gods have been so kind to us that I'm nervous to even talk about it! I've been working on getting Finnley out of the swaddle and so far it's going well. I leave his one arm out and he's quick to settle (at least, quick by my standards). Last night was probably the best night of sleep ever. He slept in the swing from about 9-12 when I decided to dream feed him and go to bed. He didn't wake up at all when I put him in his cosleeper and slept til 330. So 9-330??? I'll take it. I think at that time I even just gave him his paci b/c he wasn't crying, just moving around, and he slept til 430 when (cue angels singing) I brought him in bed to side lie nurse and we both nursed/slept until 715!! NO puke!










I have to say...I feel like I'm finally getting to experience what I thought I would from the beginning. Snuggles with him in bed. Waking up to his gorgeous little face. Now when he wakes up he sees me first thing and he's cradled in my arm, and I can smother him in kisses and whisper good morning to him. It is just wonderful. Amazing. Plus he's finally at the age where he smiles back and coos and giggles at me.

I'm making huge changes with cleaning around the house and working hard to come up with a routine to organize/declutter. It's amazing. I won't bore you all with the deets but I feel like a new woman/mother/home maker.

Yesterday alone I managed:


10 min clean up session for the living room (DD helped and it was actually quite fun!)
vacuumed the living area
dropped DD at school
deep cleaned the bathroom - cleaned out the tub drain, the sink drain (oh thank you postpartum hair loss for clogging both); unscrewed and cleaned the light fixtures, and cleaned the toilet in addition to all the obvious wipe down stuff.
folded and put away 2 loads of wash
made beds

I didn't get to the kitchen but I ran out to Target after picking up Nora, and when I came home DH had done the dishes!! And he made dinner. Love that man.

DH is leaving today for his first business trip since Finn was born. He'll be gone until Saturday, in NC. Oh man. I'm not nervous at all, and THAT's what scares me! Nora has school Wed/Fri, so that should help if things get overwhelming, and my MIL isn't working this week in case I need some help. But...I think I got this. Is that bad? Ha! Maybe I'm just in denial?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ Feeling confident is a good thing. It means things are really settling down for you and you are getting in a groove. I think it's really cool how parallel our lives are right now. The first 3 months with baby are crazy. You feel like you don't even know what's going on. By the 4th month things start to get easier but are still crazy more often than not, it seems. Then the 5th month comes along and suddenly there's sleep and there's quiet playtime and there's time to do a load of laundry while the baby is awake.

Most of the housework I got done yesterday, I did while Dylan was awake. He was happy to sit with the boys in the living room. If he started to fuss, one of them would try to entertain them. I loved it! So much better than dreading doing housework because it will take up time that I might have had to relax, sit quietly, read a book, knit or, heaven forbid, eat!

How do you clean out the sink drain? I did one once but never could get the stopper thingie back on so I'm afraid to try the one in this house. I've been asking my dh to do it since we moved in and he still hasn't.

1ht now

D had another good night of sleep. i think he slept even longer last night, maybe 6 hours straight! and, i was able to go back to sleep after he nursed, too.

so, funny about the dhes keeping things. mine does that, too. mostly, it's papers. he thinks he needs to keep everything for his records. totally unnecessary in this digital age so i toss it when he's not looking. the worst thing is that he comes home from every deployment with a new foot locker full of junk. he never even bothers to open them once he's home. he just stacks them in the garage. i think i've finally convinced him that, if it's been years and he doesn't know what's in them, he can get rid of them. oh, we got the first CC bill from his trip to CA but no reimbursement yet.







luckily, it wasn't the entire bill so i was able to pay the total amount due.

ethan's b-day is friday (he's going to be 8







) and i've done nothing. we have a bowling party planned for the 22nd but i still want to have a cake and some presents to celebrate his actual day. i want a good cake, though, not one of those sugary things from the food lion. i haven't made it to the fancy bakery to order one. i'm going to try to do that today.

weighed myself this morning and i am below my pre-pg weight. just barely but i'll take it. the scale also says i'm within a healthy body fat %, too. again, i think that's just barely (it said 33.4%) but i'll take it. now just another 17 lbs. to lose to get to my ideal weight.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Yay! on PP weight.

My weight is starting to creep back up, I think I need to keep a food diary so I can figure out if it's because I'm eating too much, or eating too little. When nursing DS, I noticed I would start gaining again when I cut back what I was eating. It would stabilize or drop when I ate more/better.

Carrie: love the confidence! it's fantastic!

My only real chore (bc MIL is OCD and does stuff before I even think about it) is laundry, and really only diaper laundry. BC I am just way picky about how it's done. Dishes get done between her and DH. I hate dishes. When we are on our own again, I am going to have a rude awakening! LOL but I enjoy it for now.

Men do hoard stuff don't they! you should see DH's desk. it's why we can't share.

I wanted to go to a CD meet up today, but work took over. ugh. meeting with the gyne today to discuss bc options. Condoms are ok for now, but we don't want to do them indefinitely.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Super behind on the thread. The only thing I remember offhand is being 'taught' chores. I never got any of that teaching from my parents- my mother isn't very domestic, but we were expected to do chores each day from about age 7 or 8 onwards. So I grew up with the knowledge that the bathroom, living room, porch, etc get cleaned every day (each of us kids got to pick one). We would tidy, dust, vaccuum etc every day.... which I always thought was ridiculous, but then when I went away to school and came back home to visit after the other kids had stopped being made to do chores... and I totally saw the benefit. The house was so much grosser when we weren't doing them every day.

That said-- no way I do them every day here. I would ideally clean the bathroom once per week (doesn't happen), and the fridge gets cleaned out 3-4 times a year. We've been here 4 years and I don't think we've ever cleaned under the fridge though. We have laminate flooring, and it really should be swept every day (but doesn't...) and I'm with the majority here... it only gets washed (swiffered) on rare ocassions. Although once every two weeks would probably have it looking prettier.

In us news... got DD's hazelwood necklace. Very excited about that. DH measured though, and it's huuuuge on her, so we have to keep a good eye to make sure it's staying tucked into her shirt.

Bought my stroller yesterday!! She's been fussy since we brought it home though, so other than watching DH set it up, I haven't had much chance to actually play around with it. So excited though!

Urg. So I bought a wetbag from a local company. 1.5 weeks into using it, the stitching at the top zipper started totally coming apart at an alarming rate. I emailed them, and they apolgozied and said they'd send me a new one. That was on the 16th, and so it should have gone out the next week... on the 19th or shortly after. I still haven't gotten it... And I emailed them again last week, and they said it went in the mail "a few days ago" and should be here soon. *sigh* It's been three whole weeks, and while I get that there were holidays in there... that's ridiculous. Mail locally here should only take 2-3 business days, not 15.

LLL meeting today! Excited, especially since I actually am having issues again. DD opens big and wide to latch, but then as soon as she gets on, she clamps her mouth down tight, and pulls off a bit. It seems like she does better at night when she's more tired, but I can't figure out the connection. She's just been playing sooo much lately... she'll only nurse for 5 minutes or so, but then want to play around- clamping, nibbling, tweaking my nipples with her hands, etc. And if I try to pull her away, she shrieks at me. *sigh*


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

thankfully I have never had nipple twiddler nurslings!

you may try a long nursing necklace (think like a large indestructible pendant or large beads) for her to play with while nursing. Norah likes to grab my shirt or a fold of boob, but otherwise is pretty focused on eating.

as for the how in latching - maybe when she's tired she goes back to latching the *right* way - as in she's on autopilot and not thinking about it. where as if she's bright eyed and awake, she's more likely to experiment? Does she do this in all positions? I find Norah gets down to business better in the football hold (otherwise she does latch and unlatch alot b/c she wants to grin and talk to me - so sweet! - but really, I need to get other stuff done too  )

but also, I can't do football hold everywhere, esp as she gets bigger.

You are not going to want to look under your fridge or stove. but it is a thing that really *should* be done.

That sucks about the bag! I gave up on wetbags and I just use the disposable sort. we use them at home also for poop diapers (holds in the smell better, even within the diaper pail) and containing poopy wipes.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ Maybe she's trying to control the flow of milk?

What size necklace did you get? I got a 13" one for Dylan. It looked tiny but fits perfectly.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Ooh i hope I remember everything I want to comment on!

MW - Chris is the same with papers. He's terrible. We do all our bill pay online and he still keeps paper statements and bills that come. I never know what to toss when it comes in.

Cleaning a drain - it depends on your sink or tub. The tub for me is easy, just unscrew the little drain at the bottom, and then go in and pull out all the hair. The sink is trickier. You have to unscrew the stopper from the back down below, and then pull up the stopper. Reconnecting it all can b tricky. We have a pedestal sink so it's all open in the back.

JJ - great about the hazelwood! I hope you're as happy with yours as we are with ours. It's like a little miracle necklace. And woo hoo I'm so glad you got your stroller!! I'm still on the lookout for a used one on craigslist. Let me know how good it is when you get a chance to use it!!

I've also never done under the stove or fridge. Whoops.

We always just waited til things got gross before cleaning them. That doesn't work so well anymore. I'm finding wiping things down and doing things daily helps so much and keeps things looking so much nicer.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

JJ, that's awesome that you got your stroller! FWIW, DD hated the stroller until about 6 weeks ago. Now she loves it. She grins and laughs the whole time she's in it until she reaches her limit and then she screams until I pick her up. But she usually tolerates it long enough for me to get done whatever I need to in the store.

RE: cleaning. I wish I was better about doing a little bit each day. Usually by the time I've made it through the morning with DD, I have hardly had time to eat much less do any cleaning. The bathrooms are a wreck though so I'm going to try to get those done before the other kids come home Friday evening.

I just have to say that DD has become such a delight the past couple of weeks. She's turning in to such an easy baby! (well aside from the couple of days from hell after the synagis med) I hope that the upcoming surgery doesn't change that too much. She's sleeping well, she's eating well. She can play for a bit by herself. She's not crying as much in the car. She loves to go on errands and see new people. When we are at home, I can lay down with her even if she isn't asleep yet and she will just cuddle up and go to sleep. It's so great! She'll be six months old on Tuesday.

I haven't decided yet when to give her solids. Can I admit that I'm kind of not wanting to start solids because I'm happy with our current diaper-washing routine?!?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

The only + to giving solids is that sometimes, the poop is ploppable - which is so nice w/ CDs. but it smells worse, and in our case DS pooped more often. Though I think we didn't have consistent ploppable poos until he was fully weaned.

So glad you are in a nice stretch with Ava. Norah has always been pretty easy - but now she's a delightful, really happy, easy baby. I wish Gabe would become an easy toddler, but i don't know if those exist. And really, compared to others' toddlers, he IS pretty easy.

Everyone's facebook statuses this morning were about how long their babies slept last night (and these are all babies younger than Norah - and they are formula fed). Now, I'm not jealous exactly. But I would like to get to a point where she's sleeping a good stretch in the bassinette. I love co-sleeping at this age - she's big enough not to worry about too much but doesn't move around a whole lot and take up 1/2 of a king sized bed - but I kind of got used to sleeping without a baby in the bed.

Question of the day: regarding our thread title: (January 2012 Whatever Ladies are all done having their babies) - how many of us really are "all done"?

I am done for now. I definitely want one more, and somedays, so does DH (last night wasn't one of them!) but I think I don't want to have the next one until Norah is around 3; that way I can nurse her for as much of the 2 year recommendation as we both want, and maybe she'll be potty-trained. OTOH, I wouldn't mind being a surrogate for someone either - it's a thought that's been in my head - but I have read that sometimes women with prior c-sections aren't considered good candidates?

Oh, and yesterday Gabe had little joy in him, bless his heart. As soon as I got home from work, he was violently rejecting DH. Wanted to do things himself, or with me, and not DH at all. Which 1)doesn't make DH feel very good 2)sometimes he tries to force the issue, which only makes it worse 3)makes me dealing with Norah sometimes very, very, hard. A lot of the problem was because it was pouring all.day. yesterday, there was no outside time, and Gabe needs outside time like he needs food and water. We did take him out shopping with us after dinner (that didn't go great either) and as soon as we got home he was in full meltdown mode so to bed he went. DH insisted on doing it and 2 hours later, he still wasn't asleep, so they came down, and Gabe cuddled with me on the couch for another hour and went back up to bed pretty easily that time. But it was not a good day.

Funny thing though: we were in the grocery store and Gabe had a little buggy and tried to put a watermelon in it. He can carry it ok, but couldn't get it in the buggy. LOL it was pretty cute.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Annie - I don't blame you about waiting for solids longer! I'm happy with ebf poo. I thought about it yesterday b/c now he's 5 months and I suppose we are getting close. But...in all honesty he's not anywhere near ready. He isn't sitting yet, still has a tongue thrust, no teeth, can't even get his teethers reliably to his mouth, and he's not showing any interest. So. I have time!

Kat - Good question. I thought we were done. Remember we were talking vasectomy? Well, DH is now on the fence, and while I'm feeling as done as I possibly could feel, he's just not ready to say never. I think it's b/c right now the "burden" (I can't think of a better word, but I don't mean it negatively) of parenting is on me. Caring for two littles is tough -- as you ALL know. And since Nora is anti-daddy, and Finn is still an infant, he's really not too busy with raising these kids right now. He's sleeping well all by himself elsewhere in the house. All he deals with is a few meltdowns and potty accidents here and there. A diaper or two. It's not the same as being mama 24/7. So. I'm just saying he and I are BOTH in very different places regarding having more kids. We shall see what happens. I'm happy with our two and want to go on to the next chapter.

I'm so sorry about your rough day with Gabe. I so hear you on it and am sending out some hugs and lots of patience! Those days are so hard.

We had a big rainstorm last night and lost power for a bit. It was while we were all sleeping so I didn't realize it until I was woken up by the sound of the gps beeping (stupid thing doesn't even work, I'm not sure why it's plugged in) and all the night lights were out. I was worried Nora would wake up and panic being in total darkness, but she didn't. I didn't hear a peep from her until she was at the foot of my bed asking to get in. I think it was around 3 or so in the morning. Not bad.

We slept ok. I think we just have good nights and bad nights with no patterns. I'm through trying to figure it out, and I'm done worrying. We've survived every stage so far, whether or not we had control over it. There is such a short time in their lives that they are dependent on us, so might as well try to enjoy it. Right?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Yes, we try to enjoy it! With Gabe, it's usually not several hours of constant hair-pulling - there are usually moments of bliss even in the chaos - when you get him to giggle uncontrollably, or just cuddle a bit. I try to focus on those.

Funny thing is - I do most of the parenting and I am fare more open to *more* kids than DH; last night was one of those nights I could tell he was done LOL

but like the other evening when he was holding and talking to Norah, he said he almost understood families like the Duggars (the 19+kids and counting) - if he could, he'd always have a baby in the house. I don't feel that way, mostly because I really do want to be done nursing eventually. But he's not the one feeding the baby!

At least the power went out while you were sleeping! it makes things a bit easier. (no need to entertain a todder in the dark)


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

That's not what the title was supposed to me. It's supposed to mean that all of us are done having the babies we had been pg with, as opposed to being done having all our babies. Maybe I should have put it the other way around? I actually spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out which way fit.







Anyone is welcome to suggest something else.

WRT: solids. I wouldn't expect much change in poo for a while if you allow baby to feed herself. She will most likely still get most of her nourishment from breastmilk with just a few nibbles of solids thrown in. The poos only change drastically if you go to the spoon feeding solid food schedule that a lot of people follow.

I feel like crap this morning. I think Dylan slept ok last night but I, apparently, did not. I actually cried when I woke up this morning because I'm feeling so overwhelmed right now. I think a lot of it has to do with trying to get things worked out for Ethan's birthday. I'm so tired of having to do all this special stuff on my own. I'm not one of those people that likes planning parties and running all over town picking up presents and cakes and balloons.

I don't have anyone to watch Ethan at a workable time so that I can go shopping without him. I was planning to go yesterday before Ryan went to work but Dylan did something weird with his nap schedule and it started pouring down rain. I actually considered leaving him home alone for an hour or so so that I could get him some presents. We practiced using the home phone. It's magic jack and didn't always work but seems to be working now. I even looked up the law in NC. Did you know that most states don't have a law or any regulations about minimum age for leaving children home alone? I probably could leave Ethan home alone. He's certainly smart and responsible enough. The only problem would be that he might get scared. So, IDK. I may do that today if I feel up to it.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I know that's not what it's supposed to mean, I was just curious among ourselves, who actually is "done"

I cried the other day on the way to a play date. Norah wouldn't keep her paci in, and I had to keep pulling over, and I don't like pulling over on the interstate, so tookk an exit and pulled over someplace. wouldn't you know, I got back on the interstate the wrong way? and didn't realize it until I was almost home. I totally cried on the way there, but I was so glad I went!

I hope Ethan's party goes well, I know he'll like it.

Honestly, if you are comfortable with leaving E for an hour or two. You won't be going far (not like you're shopping in Wilmington or something) and surely he can do the phone, assuming it's working. I think most of the laws have to do with leaving children with younger siblilngs, and I think that's like 11. (IIRC)


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

OMG - I am soooo behind!

I always think it is funny to see what and how other people clean. Growing up we *did* clean things. Every Sat. was the main house cleaning day. Every kid had a room, etc. Now, my mom was a deep cleaner. If you cleaned something and didn't wipe down or pull things out of corners and put them away you might as well not have cleaned AT ALL







I mean, dirty ok, deep cleaned ok, somewhere in the middle was not ok at all.

Well, my husband is borderline OCD (I, of course, diagnosed him myself) and also the exact opposite to what I did growing up. He is more of a surface cleaner and throw crap in corners so it looks clean type person. So, together we do pretty good. He surface cleans and think he does stuff, I actually DO all the hard things and get no credit  he he he

Anyways - my house is usually pretty kept up with just because it really *truly* bothers him if it isn't. I mean, his dirty is probably most everyone else's pretty darn clean! Also, he does help clean and since his OCD kicks in, will do it all if I don't get to it in a reasonable amount of time. Just like it wouldn't be fair to me to do all the cleaning - I don't think it is fair to him. That's not to say it isn't one of the main fights in our marriage









Cleaning under fridge........ummmmm no.

Cleaning out the fridge (as in wiping it down not taking out yucky food) - hardly ever. Once or twice a year at the most. I hate it.

There is no under my stove here, but not something I would do either.

I have NEVER cleaned out the inside of any stove. Apparently this is something people do.

I am with whoever said they need to mop their floors a couple times a week - have too.

Dishes are kept up on and no counter clutter just because that is a huge trigger for the PITA hubby of mine.

Should clean my bathroom once a week - the main one probably does mostly. The other two, not so much

The laundry is pretty kept up on. As soon as the dryer is done I take all the nice clothes and lay them flat and leave the socks, underwear and pj's. I have a hard time getting around to putting them away - but at least they are clean!!!.......right? LOL

I also have to deep clean my carpet due to the nasty color of it - shows everything. Stupid carpet. Probably do that 4-6 times a year in the main floor. 1-3 times on the bottom floor.

Never have I ever done it on my top floor.............

The one thing I am really bad about is washing sheets and what not. I mean, babies and kids sure, cause they pee, puke, or poop on them at least once a week. But once they get older? I never even think about it. I had NO idea people wash such things once a week (or even once a month







) It was something my mom never did. Funny how that carries over!

That is all I can think of now - but yes, I have had to completely re-learn how to clean to get along with my hubby. I would deep clean one room and leave the rest of the house and he would come home and be like WTF?? while I was all proud of the one room that I took 7 hours cleaning







Yeah, those convo's didn't go so well!

Oh yeah! My husband is a hoarder as well!! I thought he was a weirdo. I guess all guys are - ha ha.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Oh, well, we're done. I woke up this morning thinking that I had bitten off more than I can chew by having D. I wanted another baby so badly but now I feel so overwhelmed by it all. I love him as I do all my children but I feel like I can't take care of any of them as well as I want. I'm so tired of everything. I can't stand the way D wiggles and squirms and kicks when he's nursing. I can't stand how hyper and loud K is. I can't stand how bossy and aggressive E is toward K.

It might be different if Sean were home but I don't know. During one fight we had when he was home, I just wanted him to take D so that I could do some laundry. I was standing at the machines moving laundry around and D was on the floor fussing. Sean was just sitting in the living room ignoring him. I had to yell at Sean to get him. I said something about just wanting a little time to myself to get things done. Sean's response was to say that maybe I shouldn't have become a mother, then. I was so hurt. The sense was that D was my child and he was rejecting both of us.

I don't know if I can ever trust him to really care for us again. He used to be such a caring, loving person. That was the thing that made me fall in love with him. He took care of me and Ryan, which I had never had before. Now it seems like he thinks making the money is all he has to do. But then he talks about how he wants to do baseball with E and play with K when he feels left out. I feel very alone and abandoned.

I can't believe I'm telling you all of this. I've been keeping it all inside and trying to act like everything will be ok but I just don't know.

WRT leaving kids alone, a lot of site had recommendations about not leaving older siblings under 12 in charge of younger siblings. I would take D and K with me so it would just be E at home.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

I didn't think that is what the thread title meant either MW - I think Kat was just asking a question.

Sorry you feel so overwhelmed







I couldn't imagine. I was watching an a couple kids for someone I *kinda* know. (It was an emergency work thing) and her husband is deployed right now. I gave her some of our dinner (oh, that is another thing my hubby does well, he is an excellent chef!)........ugh - I couldn't do it

I think they really don't have laws about leaving kids home alone because it would really depend on the kid. Some kids could stay home by themselves at 8, while others would really not be ready at all. I don't even think they really have laws about babysitting, but I think here it is about 12 that seems socially acceptable.

I am really done right now (having kids that is). I don't think we will be doing anything permanent just because of our beliefs, etc so you never know! I am only 26 - and that is a lot of years of fertility ahead of me.

Did I tell you all that A is pretty much self-weaning? I am so sad







Ever since I started going back to work she has been slowly refusing the breast, and now she won't take it at all (I mean, really really refusing) and only accepting bottles. She has always been a non-nurser. Kind of a get on, get off, have to do this even though I hate it, type baby.

So, my pump just isn't really getting much anymore - even though I started taking fenugreek and eating oatmeal and brewers yeast. I am trying not to sink into mommy guilt - I don't know what else I could have done........I doubt she would have went much into toddlerhood since she *never* comfort nursed, but not even a year??? WTF??









I was reading online about a certain probiotic that is cultured from breastmilk - so basically it is a super concentrated breastmilk. I think I will probably start giving her that (as well as my other kids)

Do any of you give a vitamin D supplement? The baby ones are only 400IU.......I would really hate to buy that for the baby. I give my other kids about 2000IU at least 3 times a week. I am wondering if I just give her 1000IU twice a week........She seriously does not get any sun exposure right now. It is freezing. Maybe I will look it up.

The daily recommendations for vitamin D are ridiculously low..........


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I don't give vitamin D even though the pediatrician pushes it. I really think the phenomena with rickets coming back is because people avoid the sun to an extreme. According to my LLL book, all a baby needs is a few minutes a day of even just his head/face exposed to sun for his body to produce enough vitamin D.

WRT to the weaning, it could just be a nursing strike. Some babies go through that at a particular age. I think A is around that age. I say keep offering. She may come back to it.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Oh, well, we're done. I woke up this morning thinking that I had bitten off more than I can chew by having D. I wanted another baby so badly but now I feel so overwhelmed by it all. I love him as I do all my children but I feel like I can't take care of any of them as well as I want. I'm so tired of everything. I can't stand the way D wiggles and squirms and kicks when he's nursing. I can't stand how hyper and loud K is. I can't stand how bossy and aggressive E is toward K.
> It might be different if Sean were home but I don't know. During one fight we had when he was home, I just wanted him to take D so that I could do some laundry. I was standing at the machines moving laundry around and D was on the floor fussing. Sean was just sitting in the living room ignoring him. I had to yell at Sean to get him. I said something about just wanting a little time to myself to get things done. Sean's response was to say that maybe I shouldn't have become a mother, then. I was so hurt. The sense was that D was my child and he was rejecting both of us.
> ...










I hope things settle for you soon! I do know a lot of women that have a lot of kids (being catholic and all) and even though they weren't happy while doing it - they are all happy now that their kids are grown. Just survive and this too shall pass.

I unfortunately have no advice about PITA husbands


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I don't give vitamin D even though the pediatrician pushes it. I really think the phenomena with rickets coming back is because people avoid the sun to an extreme. According to my LLL book, all a baby needs is a few minutes a day of even just his head/face exposed to sun for his body to produce enough vitamin D.
> WRT to the weaning, it could just be a nursing strike. Some babies go through that at a particular age. I think A is around that age. I say keep offering. She may come back to it.


I don't even know what rickets is - but vitamin D3 is ahhhhmazzzing! My kids used to have a runny nose and cough almost the whole winter and now they don't get it at all. If it wasn't for that wierdo bit with the stomach bug from hell, we wouldn't have really gotten sick for almost two years now. Which, is nuts for me!

That is why I want to start giving it to A if she isn't going to be nursing anymore. (I can only get about 3-4 ounces a day for her) I just would hate to spend 20 bucks on 400IU dosage (which is a crap amount) if I can spend 20 on a 1000IU dosage.

Yes, I will keep offering to A. I don't have much hope though - because she has just BEEN one big nursing strike. She has never nursed at all unless I am laying down in bed with her and or she is starving. Now she won't even do it in the middle of the night while she is half asleep. Offering it actually wakes her up and pisses her off. sooooo annoying









I know at 2 you can give them 2000IU a day. So It would make sense that I can give a one year old 1000IU 3 times a week...........


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Rickets is the bone disorder that is caused from deficient vitamin D. There has been an upsurge in children with rickets recently, which is why doctors are now recommending vitamin D supplementation for breastfed babies. You have to be careful about vitamin D dosing because it is a fat soluble substance. Unlike something like vitamin C, which is water soluble so the body just flushes out any extra, vitamin D is stored in fat cells so it is easier to overdose on it. I don't know the recommended amount for babies.

What is the probiotic you mentioned?

There's something else I'm forgetting...


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

I think you are so against vitamin D3 because they tell nursing moms to give it to their babies







In reality - if the mom has a high enough level, the baby will too. I take enough, so I don't worry about the baby needing more while nursing. 
You really should look into it - it is amazing! Although vitamin d3 toxisity (how the f do you spell that??) is a real thing - it is very very uncommon. I mean, I have been giving my kids and myself a massive dose according to most docs - and no problems here - only benefits.

Here is a link to natural news, don't really know how good it is, I have been researching it for years. I want to find the doc that only has non-vaccinated kids in his practice (almost 5000 kids and not one autistic!) he is a big supporter of it.

Anyways - its actually really good stuff, don't let silly pediatricians could your view of it









http://www.naturalnews.com/vitamin_d.html

The probiotic I found is because of one of the nursing groups I was in. She was on mystery diagnosis because her breastmilk was hot pink (along with other disturbing symptoms) and she had some kind of weird bacteria or something. They treated her but would not treat her baby UNLESS he started showing symptoms. So she researched it herself and found this stuff - and it completely took it away from him and her.

http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Way-Primadophilus-Reuteri-powder/dp/B005KMBFAM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=IUBBU3RRWJLV7&colid=ST3GJUSGL7IZ

Now, that is the name and she gets it from nature's way. I am not sure if that particular powder is what I would get, I just wish listed it so I could remember the name Reuteri.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

I'm not against vitamin D supplementation. I take it, myself. But you are right. I am opposed to doctors telling breastfeeding moms that they must give their nursing babies vitamin D when there are no indications of a deficiency. However, there is a reasonable question about whether or not any vitamin supplementation has any true benefits. The question is whether or not the body can assimilate single separated vitamins and multivitamins taken outside of their natural state.

I'm not opposed to vitamin supplementation to try to fill in gaps in diet as long as the supplements are safe and natural. The problem for me is that I don't know how to tell that something that's processed like that is safe and natural. I've read stuff about vitamin E being made from left over copy machine toner, for example. The argument is that it's safe because it's reduced to the purified vitamin. Problem is that it's almost impossible to completely purify something like that. There are almost always traces of other substances, some maybe toxic, left behind. But, then, it's so hard to get safe and natural food, too, that maybe it's all moot.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: it's a tough place to be in, to be sure. When was the last time Sean was home for an extended period of time? I know he's been home on leave once or twice, but really home?

It is bound to take some time to re-adjust to family life - that's normal - it's just a matter in part of whether you really want to work at it (you is in the plural there) or not. I saw a lot of famililies in Okinawa break up - 1)it's a very common destination for dual-service members (both DH and DW in the service) 2) a frequent deployment rate; it's not uncommon for the servicemember to be away more than 1/2 the time a family is stationed there. Not to mention you are in a completely foreign country with no family . . . it makes or breaks families. The ones who made it through had to spend a lot of time focusing on marriage and family in the time they were together, and not every family is willing to do that.

Hang in there! I think it's worth trying to make it work when Sean gets back if he's willing to work with you. In the meantime, is there anyway to carve in some "you" time? it may help. That's all I've got!

Annie - my mom was a corners cleaner too! the house may be cluttered, but darn it, the corners were spotless!

I know that daily cleaning is easier . . . but I am really more of a once a week everything gets deep cleaned/laundered/etc sort of person.

vit D: I'm not against supplementing if one is actually deficient. I am against automatically dishing it out. If it's not raining, we are all out in the sun for at least 20 minutes a day, often much more. so I think we are fine. Doesn't matter if it's cold, we bundle up, because DS is a wreck if he's cooped up all day.

I have looked into adding a mulit for him, but all the ones I've found are mostly sugar. We could all benefit from pro-biotics probabably

I totally saw that episode of mystery diagnosis! why they didn't test her milk sooner, I have no idea.

I think I need to add maybe some b vitamins. It may help my gum health which is not great at the moment.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Sean has only been home once since the end of March for 2 weeks over Thanksgiving. Before that he was home for about 9 months. Before that he was gone for about a year, being home for a month in December 2010. He's been gone many more times before that. If we added up all the time he's been gone, not just deployments, I'm sure he's been gone more than he's been home since he joined the Marines in 2002.

Sean says he understands that we have issues. He says that he understands that he is a part of those issues and needs to make an effort to fix them. It's not just me. However, I don't think he knows how to work at it. His solution to any problem is to ignore it. That's why I finally talked to his home unit Chaplain. He said he will helps us both. He wants me to contact him again in right before Sean comes home and then he'll seek Sean out rather than waiting for Sean to find him.

He always gets about 2 weeks off when he first comes home from a deployment. I was thinking that it might be better if he went straight back to work for a few weeks while we adjusted to him being home. Then he could take some time off. Maybe having him home 24/7 so suddenly is too much for any of to take. But I know he's exhausted and needs time to rest. He says he gets only about 4 hours of sleep a night and works every day over there. He does not get the weekend off or anything like that and he doesn't get to leave his work, go eat dinner and just hang out until the next day.

I get so angry, though, when people tell me that I need to give him time. Don't expect him to jump right back into things. I've been under just as much stress as him. Why do I have to be the one to wait all the time? It's the same as when people say to let your spouse have a few minutes to unwind after coming home from work before expecting them to do family things. What if I've had an extremely stressful day and need to lock myself in the bathroom for 15 minutes before I throttle someone? I'm supposed to wait while he unwinds but he's never expected to wait while I unwind. KWIM?


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

It depends who you talk to whether we're done or not. I'm not. I want at least one more- but then DD is only our first, so I'm in a different boat. DH is pretty firm right now that we're done. He even wants to start selling off all the diapers/clothing as she outgrows it. I would rather just keep the items until our next child (because let's get real... there WILL be another. lol.)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> I think they really don't have laws about leaving kids home alone because it would really depend on the kid. Some kids could stay home by themselves at 8, while others would really not be ready at all. I don't even think they really have laws about babysitting, but I think here it is about 12 that seems socially acceptable.
> 
> ...


Yeah I was staying home by myself by about 9 or 10, and I was totally ready (and making meals too). My youngest brother on the other hand wasn't reallly ready until closer to 13 or 14 I think.

We give Vit D. We're pretty far North here, plus we don't spend any time outside to get the natural source. I'll stop giving it once spring/summer comes and we are outside, but right now, I know that even I should be taking a supplement (and am really bad about forgetting...), so I don't believe there's enough in my body to pass on to her.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I am opposed to doctors telling breastfeeding moms that they must give their nursing babies vitamin D when there are no indications of a deficiency. However, there is a reasonable question about whether or not any vitamin supplementation has any true benefits. The question is whether or not the body can assimilate single separated vitamins and multivitamins taken outside of their natural state.


My thing with VitD is that it's also been linked to depression and other things other than just rickets, so some of them aren't just quantifiable by observation. And since this is something that nature intends for us to get (through the sunlight) and it's because of our adapted lifestyle that we're not getting it, it makes sense to me that we need to account for that. Now, like I said, if we were somewhere where I could be outside, it would be different. But it's -29C right now... not happening, no matter how badly I want to use my new stroller! lol

Speaking of the stroller, she fell asleep in it last night for about 30 minutes. I told DH it was already worth the money 

MW you asked before and I forgot, but we got the 13" necklace. She definitely could have gone with the 11". Oh well. We're just making sure it's under her clothing.

Went to a LLL meeting last night. It was good. I didn't really get any new answers, but yet I still came home feeling more hopeful and relaxed about the whole thing. It's nice just to be around someone who understands that stopping is not the first option to consider.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

It's very frustrating - I agree and so much of the burden is put on the spouse.

Can he do a week at home or maybe a 96, and then go back to work - that way he still gets time to decompress, but not quite sooo long?

and I guess it's because we all think we are superwoman. I totally think you should just leave for an afternoon. no excuses, just go out (once he's home). I have to do this wth my DH sometimes. Not, do you mind if I go, or do you want to come with me, but I'm going (with our without the kids) and you can deal. Sometimes it just has to be forced.

I have to do this, bc DH and his mom worry so much about people out there - yeah I know there are crazies, but I do my best to be safe, you need to trust that, and I can't always wait on somebody willing to go with me. bc sometimes I want to do things I don't *need* to do. and bc they are not *needs* they often get pushed to the side and well, I just want to!

that's my vent.

I wonder on the whole allow your spouse to unwind thing, can't people take turns? like one day dad (or mom if she works ;0) will immediately take over so mom (or dad) can get a shower or whatever for however long it takes, and the next day, the person returning from WOH can go decompress for a bit before letting the SAH parent take a break. Or not even strictly taking turns, but sometimes the WOH parents needs to just take over when the SAH parent has had enough. I feel I can say this since I am that WOH parent and I normally do take over as soon as I walk through the door. Unless both babies are sleeping, in which case, I do have a little bit of time, but also in which case, DH usually isn't tearing his hair out either.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> Now, my mom was a deep cleaner. If you cleaned something and didn't wipe down or pull things out of corners and put them away you might as well not have cleaned AT ALL
> 
> ...


^^^Almost all of that. Our daily chores got inspections. It's funny though how my mother totally changed with that after 2/4 of us moved out. Now the house is a pigsty. And we were the same with sheets. It never even occured to me. Growing up, we washed our sheets when we spilled on them or something. DH came from a family that washed them once a week. When we moved in together I thought it was the weirdest thing ever, and so much work! Of course now with DD they get cleaned twice a week because she pukes almost every night, and no matter how hard I try, it always gets the sheets.

DH and I also have different cleaning habits. I'm the type like you who will do one room, but -solidly-. DH is the type where if I ask him to clean the kitchen, he'll do the dishes and clear the counter and clutter... but completely leave the floors, the table, and not bother actually wiping down the counters. But he thinks that since it gives him time to do the kitchen AND another room, it evens out. It drives me nuts. I'd rather one room be spotless, then two be half done.

We have a self cleaning oven, otherwise it would never get done. Way too much work for me!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I wonder on the whole allow your spouse to unwind thing, can't people take turns? like one day dad (or mom if she works ;0) will immediately take over so mom (or dad) can get a shower or whatever for however long it takes, and the next day, the person returning from WOH can go decompress for a bit before letting the SAH parent take a break. Or not even strictly taking turns, but sometimes the WOH parents needs to just take over when the SAH parent has had enough. I feel I can say this since I am that WOH parent and I normally do take over as soon as I walk through the door. Unless both babies are sleeping, in which case, I do have a little bit of time, but also in which case, DH usually isn't tearing his hair out either.


I think this is a big part of my issue with that. It's mainly for the man's benefit. When mom works outside the home, she almost always takes over the majority of the childcare when she gets home from work even when both parents are home. I think it's a ridiculous idea that just comes from the thought that childcare isn't as important or as difficult as making money. Things should rather go on a case by case, day by day basis.

Maybe I got an 11" necklace for Dylan and a 13' or 14" one for Kellen. I can't remember now.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: sheets - ours get changed/washed once a month or so and they need it by then. I have dried milk rings on the sheets . . .I just haven't got the urge to clean them. (bad I know). DD normally sleeps on a blanket on top of the sheets. Well, I sleep on half, she sleeps on the other half - to absorb milk overflow. Plus it makes moving her a bit easier. (by blanket, I mean like a receiving blanket)

MW: I don't know why, but it just is hard NOT to do. When I get home from work, I really miss my kiddos and WANT to spend time with them. that HOW I decompress. Maybe men are just wired differently? I know the men I know that WAH can go in a room, shut a door, and not come out until work is done. That wouldn't fly in our house, neither kid would permit it, and I'd feel awful if there was something I *could* be helping with, you know?


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

RE: Vitamin D3 - I found out about vitamin D3 when M was about 14 months old. The year before that J was sick, sick, sick, the WHOLE winter........the whole darn thing! It sucked. Bad.

The next year we all got strep, J and M got croup, and it sucked again! LOL So probably about this time of year two years ago I started researching what would help boost the immune system. THAT is how I found out about vitamin D3. I was hooked and I got these:

http://www.amazon.com/Carlson-Ddrops-2000-IU-10ml/dp/B001LF39DS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1326399000&sr=8-4

(except they were the 1000IU dose) and I am pretty sure they don't have any fillers. Except maybe coconut oil or something.

I started giving it to them and of course I didn't notice really much difference at first. I stopped giving it to them for the summer - because they were out in the sun enough. I don't use sunscreen unless they are going to get burned - and then I just use the zinc oxide.

The next fall I started giving it to them, and the whole year they didn't get more than a cold here or there! I was hooked. I mean, I was used to the whole having a cough and runny nose most of the winter! (and I mean the kiddo's, not me! LOL)

So, to me I have seen the benefits! I guess it is good for the bones and stuff too - but for me it is mostly just because of the immune benefits. ESPECIALLY since I don't vax.

I think the statistics are something like 80 percent of us are deficient in vitamin D3 (which is totally different than D2, just FYI).

Also - for whoever said you go outside even if it is cold, it is actually that you have to have most of your skin exposed for 20 or so min (for light skinned people). Which, maybe you are doing







ha ha ha

Of course - I think the biggest thing is just to go with what you feel best. My kids got sick to much, so I supplement and it is a LOT better. (I also give a vitamin c supplement and colloidal silver as well as a kid vitamin and mineral drink from a wellness company) and I notice a huge difference.

I also don't give them the D3 supplement at all during the summer months.

Ok - I won't talk about D3 anymore!


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

I totally agree about DH's getting off the hook way to easily. (or at least mine).

I actually love it when I have to go to work and my DH has to take care of the kiddo's without me. It is a real wakeup call for him. I remember for months he would make snide comments about cleaning or cooking and I would tell him how hard it was to cook while holding/watching a baby. He would retort with "women do it all the time" Ummmmm - ok....

Well, after a day or two of me going to work before dinner he goes "OMG! Do you have any idea how hard it is to cook with A, it is impossible!" NO SH**!!!! This is what I have been trying to tell you.









But yeah, I agree with Kat, I can't NOT take care of the kids as soon as I get home. It is just the way it is. I actually feel refreshed after getting away from them







(did I just say that out loud?)


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

what vitamin and mineral drink? I'm curious, b/c I think DS could use additional vitamins, but most of what I see is primarily sugar. He doesn't need more of that.

We all are rarely sick; maybe because we are down south? and therefore get a good bit of sun; I mean, last week we were out in shorts and flip flops. Even today, it's not really cold, it's the wind that kicks up and chills you.

Only DH is sick often during the winter, but he has an essential oil regimen he kicks in when he's feeling yucky. I am thankfully rarely ill, and even then it's not bad.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> JJ: sheets - ours get changed/washed once a month or so and they need it by then. I have dried milk rings on the sheets . . .I just haven't got the urge to clean them. (bad I know). DD normally sleeps on a blanket on top of the sheets. Well, I sleep on half, she sleeps on the other half - to absorb milk overflow. Plus it makes moving her a bit easier. (by blanket, I mean like a receiving blanket)
> 
> MW: I don't know why, but it just is hard NOT to do. When I get home from work, I really miss my kiddos and WANT to spend time with them. that HOW I decompress. Maybe men are just wired differently? I know the men I know that WAH can go in a room, shut a door, and not come out until work is done. That wouldn't fly in our house, neither kid would permit it, and I'd feel awful if there was something I *could* be helping with, you know?


I always have a receiving blanket or something under her, but she just never fails that at somepoint during the night, she will miss the blanket and puke all over everything else. If it's a little bit, we leave it, but it's often quite a large amount, so if we just leave it, then it ends up soaking into the mattress too (ugh!). And ditto if where she spits up is near our heads. The smell of the acid turns my stomach instantly. lol

I'm the same with going out and coming back home. Or even if I go and nap without her or something. Once I get up/home, I feel like I need to see her again. DH is... somewhat the same. I'll be interested to see what happens when he goes back to work though. I would guess it depends on what sort of stress they're encountering at work. A nice compromise might be to have the out of house parent have a set time- say 20 minutes, so decompress once they get home... but then they have to take the children for another set amount of time, say an hour, before they can bring them back to the SAH parent. I know before DD, when I was working, and DH was home for a few months, I would come home, and he would want my attention right away, but my head was still spinning, and I really did need some time to change, wash my face, get a drink, check my email, etc, before I could really be there. I needed to shut off the work side of me and turn on the home side, so I could be present and ... well... pleasant! lol


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> BLARG! Synagis and DD do not mix! She has been a mess this weekend and I thought it was teething but it seems to be a reaction to the Synagis medication. I had to take her in for an unscheduled clinic visit today because her oxygen levels are low. When we had her last clinic visit on Friday, her doctor said at that point that we should try to get to March before the repair surgery. But after this weekend and her oxygen still being low, today he said that if she doesn't bounce back in a few days then we need to schedule surgery for in a couple of weeks.
> 
> ...


I was totally going to respond to this and I forgot. A doctor who goes to my church is very naturopathic, delayed/selective vax, was talking one time and he was saying something along the lines of "checking to see if the CHILD is immune rather than following a said vax schedule. For example - when your kid is going to kindergarten, instead of just giving them the booster, they will check their blood to see if they are still immune. Or, instead of giving a shot 4 times like the schedule says, they will give one or two and check the child themselves to see if they are immune. (and of course, I am just assuming they check the blood).

I mean, they say to give them 4 shots because 1 out of 1000 kids actually needs all 4 KWIM?

I don't know if this is something you have the time, resources, or desire to pursue but I thought I would throw it out there!


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> what vitamin and mineral drink? I'm curious, b/c I think DS could use additional vitamins, but most of what I see is primarily sugar. He doesn't need more of that.
> 
> ...


http://annie2186.vemma.com/next/ - this is the one I use. It has nothing like that at all in it.

Yes, I bet where you live and getting so much sun helps alot! We only get to go out in clothes that allow our skin to see the sun a few months out of the year. Plus, that is the BEST way to get it, straight from the sun


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> A nice compromise might be to have the out of house parent have a set time- say 20 minutes, so decompress once they get home... but then they have to take the children for another set amount of time, say an hour, before they can bring them back to the SAH parent.


See, this is the type of thing that really irks me. Why is that the WOH parent gets a few minutes before having to interact with anyone, which leaves that at home parent still doing what s/he has been doing all day without a break. Job stresses are not the same as taking care of children stresses. I will never believe that it's as hard or harder. I've done both and worked a few different types of jobs as a single parent. You get breaks at work or you have short enough shifts that you don't need breaks. You don't ever get a break at home. Even if all the kids are sleeping, it's not really a break because you have to be ready for them to wake and need you at any time. It's just not the same and I think it's totally unfair that the WOH parent gets preferential treatment. They can get their few minutes on the trip home from work. I mean, I don't get a few minutes to ease into my day in the morning before I have to start taking care of everyone else.









I'll have to look up the info on vitamin D in my LLL book. I was surprised to read that it said you don't need that much sun exposure to get enough. I also doubt it's something that has to be continuous or every day. Like I said, vitamin D is a fat-soluble chemical, so extra that's synthesized from extended hours or days in the sun can be stored for use during those times when we can't get in the sun. I'm not saying that no one is ever deficient or that there isn't any health benefit to taking it. I'm just saying I'm not buying that it's the health crisis that's being propagated atm.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> I was totally going to respond to this and I forgot. A doctor who goes to my church is very naturopathic, delayed/selective vax, was talking one time and he was saying something along the lines of "checking to see if the CHILD is immune rather than following a said vax schedule. For example - when your kid is going to kindergarten, instead of just giving them the booster, they will check their blood to see if they are still immune. Or, instead of giving a shot 4 times like the schedule says, they will give one or two and check the child themselves to see if they are immune. (and of course, I am just assuming they check the blood).
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, the Synagis medicine is not really a vaccine so the benefits get filtered out of the body within 28-30 days. It's not causing the baby/child to build an immunity to RSV. If the baby/child hasn't gotten the next dose by day 31, they could get sick with RSV. The reason why there are 5 doses is because that's all the insurance will pay for. RSV is around year-round but more prevalent from November-March. Since it's so expensive, most insurance companies will only pay for the doses during the most prevalent months.

MW, big hugs. I'm not saying this lightly, but it sounds like you are experiencing some mild depression. Are there any supplements you can take while BFing? I know you had good results with St. John's Wort before but not sure if you can take that while BFing. Do you have any placenta caps left?

Annie and akind1, I'm the same way. When I walk in the door, I make a bee-line for DD. I can't *not* take care of her when I am home. Same with the other kids. If I am home, I'm cooking, doing laundry for them, watching them play, overseeing shower time etc. DH can come home and sit on the couch and not do any of that.









I am a big proponent of Vit D as well. I give DD 400 IU of Vit D daily as well as probiotics. After reading some other stories of babies w/ToF and seeing how they battle repeated illnesses, it's making me wonder if my persistence in giving her those supplements has kept her so healthy so far. Since we determined that her "stomach bug" back in December was actually a response to the Synagis, she has not been sick ever. Sometimes she gets a little stuffy if it's dry in the house but she's never had a cold or anything like that.

One of the best things about DH working during the day and me working at night is that DH is forced to be DD's caregiver. He can't get off the hook because I'm not there to rescue him. It's definitely changed his perspective on me getting stuff done when I'm home with DD because he knows how hard it is to even eat dinner when he gets home with her. The week after DD had her first surgery and he was responsible for the four older kids all on his own, I thought he was going to lose his mind! By the end of the week, he said to me "It's hard to constantly meet their physical and emotional needs!" And I just looked at him and started laughing. I said "Yeah, and I've been doing it by myself during the day, 9 months pregnant while working 8 hrs a day on the computer. It is hard!"


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh and on the topic of being done vs not being done, my current position is that if DD's next surgery is pretty much going to be her last open-heart surgery, I would be willing to consider another child when she's around 3. But that would only be if DH agreed to another one as well. If DD is going to need more open heart surgeries after this one, I don't want to have any more kids. I just can't see asking a little one to live at my mom's or something for a couple of weeks at a time while I'm at the hospital helping DD recover from surgery. I just don't think it's fair. I may change my mind as she gets older but right now, that's how I feel. We will not do anything permanent though because of our religious beliefs.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I don't get the whole decompression thing after coming home either. To me, once you're home, you're on. I don't really care how hard your day was. That said, I also don't really like to bow out the second DH is home from work. I hate passing the kids off. I'd rather hang out for a bit, talk about our respective days, and then be like, "Ok, can I grab a shower/run/go to the store?" Kind of like sharing the responsibility rather than taking turns. It just feels nicer and more respectful of both our times. Plus it does give DH time to grab a snack or something before really taking over, without him getting "a break" or something.

Our sitch is weird tho b/c he works from home. Idk if that makes a huge difference. He isn't upstairs holed away all day, but most of the time honestly I prefer it that way b/c it really messes with DD. She doesn't know when/if he's working and it confuses her, and she gets very angry at DH at odd times.

Mw -


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> That said, I also don't really like to bow out the second DH is home from work. I hate passing the kids off. I'd rather hang out for a bit, talk about our respective days, and then be like, "Ok, can I grab a shower/run/go to the store?" Kind of like sharing the responsibility rather than taking turns. It just feels nicer and more respectful of both our times.


ITA. I don't usually want to just pass the kids off, either. It's not like I'm standing at the door waiting to hand him the baby, bitch about how tired I am or something like that, and then disappear. Some days I might want to do that but those really are rare. I just want dh to get involved as soon as he walks in. The boys usually run for the door when they hear his Jeep and jump all over him when he walks in. I say, if we are both home, we both should be taking care of the kids equally.

Another thing that gets me going is the idea that it shouldn't be a problem if dh wants to get up early and go workout most mornings when he could be home to help out. If I even mention telling Sean I need him home, I get flack from lots of people about how he needs time to exercise and destress or whatever. Now, with Sean it's a little different because even if he didn't leave at 5 am to go workout, he'd still have to leave before we usually get up so it's kind of a non issue. He doesn't have a choice. Also, staying fit is an important part of his job, not just as a requirement to keep his job but also as a literal life saver. If his unit has PT at 6:00 am, he has to go. But on the weekends, no way! If he wants to go for a run, he needs to make sure he's back in time to help with the kids when they get up. And, if he could be home in the mornings even for a half hour after the kids got up to help with breakfast, I'd expect it. We'd have to work something out about when he would have time to workout.

I left Ethan home alone (sort of) for a little over an hour while I went shopping for his birthday presents. He wasn't really home alone, though. Ryan was here sleeping. I didn't tell Ryan I was leaving or ask him to watch Ethan so Ethan was still in charge of himself. He was fine. He called me once to ask me to pick up food on the way home. I think that was just an excuse to try calling me. hehe

He got a chance at a shot at his basketball game tonight. He didn't make it but he was close. Unfortunately, I missed it because Kellen wouldn't sit still so I couldn't pay attention to the game. He actually fell backward, hit his head on the bleacher behind us and then fell to floor in between them. He wasn't hurt bad but everyone else gasped. I was just mad because I had told him countless times to sit down and be still.

Which leads me to my next problem. I feel like Kellen is completely out of control. He's constantly just going crazy, running, jumping on and off furniture, yelling and screaming. He bothers everyone until they get so mad that they yell at him but it doesn't seem to phase him. The other night I lost it and screamed at him. Afterward, I felt so bad that I just hugged him and cried. When I finally put him down after he asked me to, he had a smirk on his face, one of those smiles he knows is inappropriate so he's trying to hide but can't quite completely. It looked like he thought me being that upset was funny. I just don't know what to do with him.

I've tried talking to him. I've tried making him sit on the couch next to me. I've tried making him sit in a chair by himself. I've sent him out to the backyard to just run and yell and play. I've tried just loving on him. He never runs down. I hate that everyone else is angry or annoyed with him a lot of the time. Even Ryan, who was just like him as a kid, gets really annoyed with him. I'm at my wit's end.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ i forgot to respond to you. i may have mild depression. i had seen a new counselor a few times but things didn't work out because of the kids. they are too old for me to talk freely in front of and i can't afford childcare costs and counseling fees. i'm definitely not comfortable taking antidepressants after the recent news about them causing birth defects while all the docs were smiling and saying they were perfectly safe. i do have some placenta caps and a tincture. i've been meaning to ask the woman who made them if they are still safe since i didn't freeze them and how to take the tincture again. i just haven't gotten around to it. honestly, the idea of using either now kind of grosses me out. i thikn consistent good sleep would help a lot but who knows when i'll get that.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Hugs again MW. DSS 11 is usually wide open too and drives his siblings crazy. I try to ignore the crazy-making behavior but when I'm tired, stressed or otherwise not operating at full capacity, it's hard to take. He does a lot of sensory seeking though so when he starts pushing me over the edge, it's usually pretty helpful to take him to the indoor pool at our gym and let him swim for a couple of hours. Something about the water on his skin and going underwater and holding his breath over and over helps him feel better.

I know what you mean about therapy and the kids. DH thinks I need to go to a therapist and I'm sure I do but I don't want to take DD with me and I don't want to have her spend any more time than necessary at the babysitter. So it's not happening right now.

I know that E doesn't like to be separated from you for any length of time but how does K do with it? Would he enjoy a morning play time at a preschool/daycare center? Or like a Montessori program? That would probably be helpful to help him focus on one activity at a time.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I don't mind talking to a counselor with the baby with me. I figure he can't really understand what I'm saying. Kellen may not quite understand everything I say but he could probably get the gist and could certainly repeat. Ethan would understand and I'm afraid it would be very upsetting for him, as I'm sure you would understand. I don't want my 7 year old hearing all the horrible stuff that goes on in my head.

I've actually just set up a trial at a gymnastics class for Kellen. It's only 1 day a week for an hour but it would give him something of his own to do. We were all ready to start him back at TKD but Ethan's practice was moved to Mondays and he has games every Tuesday and Thursday. I just didn't see the point of pay8ing $50 a month to take Kellen to TKD one night a week. But, now that I say that, that's about how much his gymnastics class will cost.

I appreciate the suggestions about daycare/preschool but it's just not an option for me. I'm sure you all think I'm crazy for not doing that. But, as good as some programs may be, I honestly believe that any type of structured schooling like that is not good for kids. I have avoided going into the details about that because I don't want to offend anyone. However, I've been around a lot of homeschool groups and people online and IRL now and I've read a lot on the case against any type of schooling and I am fundamentally against it.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

i want to add that kellen has been doing a lot better when we've been going to all the homeschool outings. things slowed down over the holidays but they are starting to pick up again. hopefully, that will help, too.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

No, I don't think you are crazy to have the opinion that structured schooling is not a good option. I have that opinion a lot too, especially with young boys. Buuuuutttt, I also don't think it's healthy to have a stressed out mama all the time so I think it's important for you to find a way (that you are comfortable with of course!) for you to get some "me" time to recharge your batteries. (I know you won't be offended by me being so direct about this!) As a fellow introvert, I absolutely have to have some alone time to let my brain get back in order. Even if it's just driving by myself to the grocery store and back!

I'm not comfortable taking DD in to therapy w/me because I always end up a blubbering mess and she's very intuitive and it would upset her for me to be so upset.

I think I'm going to hold off a bit longer on solids. She's very close to sitting on her own so I'm just going to wait until she can do that well. Did I tell you all that she has been sleeping from 12:30 AM-7 AM every day this week? Normally, that would be a good thing but with her crazy week from the Synagis medicine, it has me concerned. I mentioned it to her nurse and she said she would talk to her doctor about it. In the meantime, I think I'm going to try to do a dreamfeed at 4 AM which is the time she would normally wake up. I'm not comfortable with her dropping that feed and her weight gain this week has been very poor.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

no, i'm not offended at all by your dircetness. i appreciate it. i agree, i wish there were a way for me to get some time for myself. that's one way the homeschool outings are so nice. the kids play and i get to talk with the other mamas or just sit. they like to pass dylan around. there's even a really nice 13yo girl who likes to hold dylan.

i do need to adjust things. this happens every few months. i've decided the boys can't turn the TV on or play video games until after noon. we've been spending the mornings doing more activities. ethan always did really well with free play/time. he does science experiments. he spent this morning looking up holidays and other dates on the calendar and wrote an email to his dad. but kellen needs more direction. i haven't found what he's really interested in yet. he doesn't like to draw or write much. i've asked him what things he would like to do and all he comes up with is video games. he's not quite old enough for most sports or homeschool activities since he's not compulsory school age yet.

Thanks for talking this out with me. It helps me come up with more ideas of things to try.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: Does K like any more physical art? like clay/sculpting, building, etc? I wonder if there are more basic kits that allow kids to take something apart and put it back together . . .

on the unschooling front, I think that is how you and DH have a mutual FB friend. You shared something via him the other day, and I was like, how do they know each other?? since he is more local to us. I mentioned unschooling to DH, and he said that must be it, even though the mutual friend doesn't have kids old enough for school yet - his is just a little older than Gabe.

I don't know that structured school works well for everybody - esp boys - In SC (I don't know if they do this in NC?) they do a public version of homeschool, with web classes and a lot more self direction. I have one friend whose son really thrives with that. The only thing I very much disagree with is that they can't continue to do extracurricular activities through the school, like band. If your child wants that, you have to find outside private tutoring (which you of course are responsible for paying for). When my sister homeschooled in Okinawa, she was welcome to take a class or two at the high school and participate in sports, etc through the school if she wanted. She did do math and science there because Math wasn't working from home (cue DRAMA), and science stuff can be expensive, even though we got some goverment $$ for homeschool supplies. I don't see why they can't continue to accomodate that.

I know we intend to homeschool our kids - I don't know if it's because SC in general has such low test scores - but they really focus on testing here, and I very much disagree with that. Then kids learn how to be good test-takers; they don't necessarily LEARN anything. Exactly how we go about it (will we buy a curriculum? which one? or go on a subject by subject basis? or just kind of DIY?) I will figure out later.

One thing I love about where we are is that nearly all the "educational" places - the zoo and museums - have a set homeschool day where they cater to homeschoolers and welcome them with special programs and stuff. That sounds like a great opportunity for the locals and also to meet other homeschooling parents.

DD is so funny, she'll fuss, but doesn't want the paci or anything, just wants you to talk with her - it makes her soooo happy! I wish I could just do that, but I have to work too!

Not good sleep for us. DH (I can blame him - he was on the computer and watching Harry Potter right next to me) let me sleep until 2 on the couch, and then I fed DD and went to bed, and I'm up at 6:30 to work. ugh. I don't count couch sleep as "sleep". oh well. And DS took nearly 2 hours to get to sleep. (from 9:30 to at least 11) ugh.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Kellen sounds so so much like my friends son - although she just calls him "all boy" and makes derogatory comments about gender - but he's got the same personality. Just constant go-go-go. She often takes him to the mall indoor playground just to "run him", or lines the living room floor with pillows and they either wrestle around or he just climbs all over. He will play with cars or trains but only for a few minutes at a time. Mostly all activity has to be physical. He is also 3.

She "warned" me about boys. She was all like, Finn will NEVER sit like Nora does. You'll never get a shower again (do you guys remember all this from when I found out I was having a boy? I was so upset b/c I felt like she couldn't be happy for me, she was just spoiling the whole thing with warnings!!). Anyway, just know you aren't alone. I'm guessing Ethan and Ryan were more introverted like you are? I don't think there's anything wrong with Kellen. He just has more energy to use and finding a way to harness that energy can be tricky.

Anyway, I hear you on the school thing. I have to say you have planted a bug in my brain about the whole concept of public school. I still can't say I personally would home school or unschool, but you really have opened my mind to possibilities other than what is "expected". What else can you do to just get a break? I wonder if there are any good babysitters around. Even that 13 year old girl you mentioned. Maybe you need a mothers helper? Just someone to entertain or run Kellen while you feed Dylan, or someone to play with both while you grab a nice long hot shower. Or anything! A mothers helper is not something to scoff at. So many of my mama friends with ONE LO have a helper, especially if they are home by themselves most/all of the time.

AFM - I'm starting to get worried again about Finn's head shape. In pictures, its starting to really show up pronounced that something isn't quite right. He looks so cute and adorable (and normal) from the front, but as soon as you see his profile, it's obvious (to me) that something is off. The nurses at the ped office laughed at me when I mentioned it. They said babies spend a lot of time on their backs, and "don't worry, mom, it's normal" but I can't let it go. I think I want to get him evaluated. I don't want a helmet baby but OTOH I don't want a flat head baby either. I know it's all my fault. With his reflux I let him sleep in the swing too much. I agonized every damn night before I put him in that swing, and some nights the guilt was so heavy I let him sleep on me in the most uncomfortable positions. Sitting up in the recliner for months. But I still feel like it happened anyway.

It might be enough to just take the swing away and never use it, and encourage more tummy time. I don't know. I won't know until I have him checked by someone. And I'm kind of a wreck about it. I cried a little last night, though I think i was just also overtired and overwhelmed.

DH comes home tonight!! At like 2 am, but still. I'll take it. I'm so so so ready for him to come home!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie: It is NOT all your fault! I do think some babies are more prone to having a flat head than others. Can you post a profile pic and we'll give honest opinions?

FWIW: Norah has a total bald spot on the back of her head. She spends a lot of time in the baby rocker, but a lot of that is because it just the safest place for her, what with Gabe running around and dogs and stuff. - she turns her head from side to side in it a lot, and I think the friction is what causes it. I feel bad - she loves tummy time! - but well, I figure the hair will grow back . . .

Gabe is definitely all boy too (and I don't mean that in a derogatory sense; he just loves to do "boy" things and run around like a crazy person): but he does sit still. well, mostly when playing with an electronic device. Finn is such a happy mellow baby - hopefully he will continue that as he gets mobile!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I know. It's just hard not to feel guilty. Here are a few of the troubling shots.







Compared to Nora at the same exact age:



To me Finn's head looks rounded but almost cone like. Pointy. Like this description, which is brachycephaly:



Thing is that baby is looking straight ahead. When Finn looks straight ahead and not down like he is in those pictures, his head does NOT look like that. It looks normal. Like this:





Ok. Be honest. What do you think (but be gentle)!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I don't think it is as extreme as in the picture. my DH's head looks like that. and he's ok. I think.

I'd take pics to the doc; some things are clearer in pictures than in person.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ I think it looks normal. The only photo in which his head looks a little misshapen is the first one but that might just be the angle the photo was taken. He looks perfectly normal in all the other photos and certainly nothing like the diagram you posted. My babies heads weren't all shaped the same. Ethan and Dylan have very round heads. Ryan and Kellen had more elongated heads. Oh, do you remember the baby I told you about that I saw when Dylan was only a week or so old, the one who's mother is a teenage family friend? I mentioned then how flat his head was. I mean, it was completely flat. He was about 5 months old then. I saw him last week (at about 10 months) and his head looked normal and he hasn't had any intervention or treatment, no helmet. That being said, if you are really concerned, have a doctor evaluate him. I'm sure s/he will tell you Finn is fine.

I have tried over the years to find a reliable babysitter or mother's helper and I just can't. I have given up on that.

Kellen got a lot of building and banging toys for Christmas. We have tons of various types of building blocks. We don't have clay or playdoh because I'm not good at putting things away right away and it would get dried out. The mall is tiny here. There's no indoor play area. There's Chuck E. Cheese, Chick-fil-a and Mcdonald's. We got to the Chick-fil-a sometimes but I can't take him there every day.

And, Carrie, don't believe your friend about all boys being wild. Ethan is not like that at all. He is very chill most of the time. He likes to wrestle and run and play just like other kids but he doesn't take it to an extreme like Kellen does. He stops when he's told to stop. He recognizes what's dangerous and what isn't. Ryan was actually very much like Kellen. He was also diagnosed with ADHD when he was around 8. He's not hyper any more but he certainly lacks impulse control and he's very forgetful.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Kat ~ I forgot to ask who our mutual friend is. There are only two guys I can think of who are unschoolers. One is an online friend who lives in the UK or Ireland or something like that. The other is not really a friend. He's someone I've subscribed to so I can follow his posts. I bet it's that guy, Justin Stout. He has a toddler and a new baby. He has several public FB pages devoted to unschooling, breastfeeding, nonviolent parenting, libertarianism, atheism, and I'm sure a bunch of others I don't know about.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Finn has flat -spots-, but I don't see the flat head alltogether. I think if you look, so can see that while there are 'angles' to it, he doesn't have the whole back of his head flat like the picture. My guess is it's just his head changing shape still and he'll outgrow it. Could you place him on a flat surface and look at it from that angle? I think you'll see that where his head actually touches the surface, it's not flat at all. I really don't think it's anything you're doing, and is just normal baby head changing shape.

MW-- is there anyone in your schooling groups that you would trust to do trade off mornings? Do for instance monday mornings at her house, and wednesday mornings at yours, that way you have a bit of time for yourself, but the boys are with someone who you know shares the same ideals? It's a tough spot to be in. Even with DD this young, and much less to consider, I have a hard time thinking of anyone I would feel completely confident about leaving her with. Not that she wouldn't be safe, but just that I don't feel our wishes would be 100% respected.

Maybe Ryan would care for them for an hour or two? It sounds like he's been better about helping out around the house, and maybe with a payment incentive, especially if he understood how much you needed just a bit of a break.

Would K do a workout type video? It sounds funny for such a young guy, but I've seen a lot of young ones who really enjoy following those, and seeing if they can mimic what's on the tv. It's a challenge, and it makes them feel very adult. You can get some exciting kick boxing type ones, or try to make it more calming and do a yoga one. Could be worth a shot!

AFU-- DD had SUCH a good evening/night last night! We sat and watched a hockey game at night, which she loves because of the colors and shapes moving, and then I was nursing her at about 930, and we remembered we had to go to my fathers to feed his cats, so we ran the quick errand, which broke up her concentration, and then when we got home, I nursed again at about 1030, and she fell asleep, and DH and I had a chance to have a really good long serious tlak from like 11pm until 130am. Then he went to bed, I finished on the computer and went to sleep at 2am. I put her in bed beside me, because I figured she'd be up in the next 30 minutes or so, but she slept until 3:30am! 4.5 hours, and that's including a move in location. Then she slept from 4 until 7 in the bassinet, fed, etc, and then slept again in the bassinet until just after 9. She got up for the day, we changed her, fed, she puked everywhere, so we gave her a bath, and then played, and now she's napping again in my lap at 10:30! And it actually feels like a solid sleep! If I can somehow manage to keep her asleep for 90 minutes or so, I think we could have a good day on our hands! She just usually gets so overtired she doesn't know what to do with herself.

AND, I pumped yesterday just before a feeding for 5 minutes or so, just to take some off the top because I was leaking all over the place, and then I pumped while she was feeding as well. Soooo awkward, but worth it. I got 3.5 ounces in the total of about 15 minutes. Usually in about 25-30 minutes I -might- get 2oz, but I feel like I'm fighting for every drop. I want to start building up a bit of a freezer stash, so I feel much better about this. There's been a couple times where I've been exhausted, and DH has offered to take her to his sisters and 'play' there for a few hours, so I can sleep uninterrupted, but I've never had enough milk to send with her, so we couldn't. If we get a few feedings worth in the freezer, then we can do that if I need.

Guys, it's been like... 15 hours without a screaming fit! I'm torn between being in shock, and being in heaven. She's fussing like a normal baby, without having looooong bouts of uncontrollable shrieking.

Oooh, and she's been wearing her necklace now for 5 days I think? I don't know if I've noticed a difference in the reflux (maybe that was last night though...) but she woke up this morning and I realized her baby acne, which had gotten pretty bad, is almost gone. Yay!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~









There is at least one person in my homeschool group who I would be fine leaving Ethan and Kellen with for a few hours. I won't leave Dylan with anyone, though. He's too young. I don't leave babies who are EBF or almost EBF with sitters or friends, although I will leave them with my dh or my mom for an hour while napping to run a quick errand. Plus, that 13yo girl could babysit but she lives kind of far.

I've never asked anyone to watch my kids because I don't feel comfortable trading. I have never felt comfortable watching other people's kids. I'm really not much of a kid person. Ha! I don't know what to do with them (other than my own, and even then I'm sometimes at a loss).

The exercise video is actually a good idea. We have Just Dance Kids for the Wii. I should encourage him to play that more often. I think it was kind of hard for him when we first got it but that was at least a year ago so I bet he's better at it now.

We're having a really strange morning/day. Dylan woke up around 8 but was happy to stay in bed and just cuddle while I dozed some more. At around 10 he wanted to nurse and fell back to sleep for his morning nap without ever getting out of bed! It's now 12:30 and he's still sleeping. He keeps making noises but every time I go to check on him, he's asleep. I hope he's not waking, finding himself alone, and then going back to sleep because he's given up. He hasn't been fussing or crying. Yesterday, I went to check on him after he'd been napping for a while and he was just laying in the bed with his eyes open. He wasn't doing anything, just laying there. Is that weird?

So, wish me a lot of luck tonight. Ethan wants to go to Red Lobster for his birthday dinner. It will be the first time I've taken all 3 kids to a real restaurant by myself. I'm planning to go early so we won't have to wait, since it's Friday night and payday. Oh crap! I just realized that.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Baby_Cakes, his head is not flat. Is it changing shape? Yes. But his whole body is changing! My DSC's baby sister that is 3 months older than DD had a flat head for a while. She spends a lot of time in her infant carrier. But I saw her recently and it's going away on its own without intervention. The pic you posted today on FB of Finn trying to crawl, that baby's head is not flat! But definitely mention it to the doc next time if you are still concerned. One of the big lessons I have learned from DD having a CHD is to trust my mama instinct. If something feels off with her, even if she looks fine, usually something is up.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Just the fact that none of you are like, "oh my goodness get him checked" makes me breathe a HUGE sigh of relief!! Oh thank you, thank you. I'm always afraid people are staring at his head.

Maybe my guilt is making me see things? I think that's possible. I can't shake the huge knot in my gut I have over the swing sleeping. I think this weekend I'm going to have DH put the swing away. We will figure out how to live without it.

alysia - do you guys have the wii fit plus? DD really enjoys the running game and last year at 2 she could barely do it but is good at it now. Good luck out with the kids. I bet you'll have fun and enjoy yourself even!

JJ - Hooray for a good night!! And you know what, the first thing that the hazelwood did for Finn was clean up his skin. All his white heads went away. He had tragic acne, I was always picking, but once the necklace went on it cleared right up. Awesome that it's doing the same for Tenley!!

Oh, alysia, about the staring - Finn does that from time to time. I think all ppl do. I bet he was just zoning out! Did it seem odd to you or just like he was being thoughtful?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think I must have missed something about swing sleeping. Why do you feel bad about it? What's wrong with it if it's what works for everyone as long as Finn isn't left in there alone and upset?

I do have the Wii fit something or other. I moved the Wii upstairs. I spend most of my time downstairs so I guess that just wasn't even entering my mind. Ethan used to like to do the exercises with that. I will get that set up so they can both do that, too. What great ideas! Thank you all.

I guess Dylan zoning out wasn't odd. He was just laying there quietly. I felt bad because I was afraid I'd left him alone too long. But, like I said, he wasn't fussing or anything. Maybe he was enjoying some quiet alone time.







I guess it seems odd to me that a baby would want to be alone. Why wouldn't he call for me as soon as he woke up?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Finn does that too. He is so mellow and so reserved (when he isn't doing his wonderful high pitched scream/screech to get attention) that sometimes I forget he's there. I don't have to entertain him. He's happy watching, observing, looking. I'm so curious to see how he will be as he gets older. This is so different from High Needs Nora who needed constant attention and redirection and to be held or fussed over or SOMETHING.

The guilt over the swing sleep is just mine. I know there's nothing wrong with it in general, but when he was smaller he was spending 8-12 hours a day in the swing. I'd put him in at 8 or 9 pm, he'd sleep til 12 in it, I'd feed him, put him back in. He would sleep another 4 hours in it. He took all his long naps there, so another 2-3 hours at a time. I didn't know what else to do, and it worked for the time being b/c everyone's sleep needs were being met. But I agonized over it b/c I wanted him to sleep with me. I wanted him next to me, I wanted him to be able to side lie nurse so he wouldn't wake up fully. But b/c of his reflux, he would just puke everywhere. He still can't side lie nurse all the time. Milk comes out his nose, congests him, makes him spit up. I know if there IS something wrong with his head shape, it's b/c of that swing. But for normal use, I don't see any issues with swing sleep. Like I said, Nora took all her naps there as a baby and her head was/is fine.

I think I'm going to just stop using it as a crutch, and get him taking all his naps in the cosleeper. That's on an angle still, but he sleeps more on his side, and moves his head back and forth.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I understand about not wanting to use it as a crutch. I'm trying to figure out where Norah will take her naps when she outgrows the rocker . . .I hate to have her upstairs, because if she's like Gabe at all, she'll go through cat nap phases, and I don't want to be running up and down the stairs all the time. and I don't want to move the pack n play downstairs, because I want it upstairs for part of her night time sleep, and I sure ain't having that thing lugged up and down the stairs everyday!

speaking of probably "it's nothing" sort of concerns - I am trying decide if her right eye is swollen or if her lid is droopy. (ptosis) It has always been a little smaller than her left eye, but that sort of assymetry is normal. nothing to be done about ptosis, barring surgery, which they won't do until age 4, and only then if it affects vision. If it's swollen, I need to figure out why. I think maybe blocked tear ducts.

too many sales lately! got a ton of cute stuff on clearance at Gymboree and Crazy 8's for the kiddos for summer.

I am seriously considering giving up on wraps and doing a ring sling.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

kat ~ what's the trouble with the wraps? i thought you were doing really well with it.

carrie ~ i wouldn't worry about Finn being in the swing if that's where he slept. it's not like you forced him to stay in it even though he hated it. obviously, he was fine with it or it wouldn't have worked so well.

dinner went really well. dylan sat in his bucket most of the time. he got a little fussy toward the end but was fine when i picked him for a bit. went back to the bucket while i ate. i nursed him while the boys finished eating and then we left. i think the only reason he got fussy at all was because he was tired. he fell asleep for the 5 minutes it took to drive to the restaurant and stayed asleep while i transferred him from his carseat to the bucket but woke up when we got into the restaurant. i am very pleased with how well it went.


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## **mom2one** (Jan 26, 2008)

Wow - I had a lot of reading to catch up with you guys!

Let's see if I can remember all of the things I wanted to comment on!

Carrie - I agree if JJ - there *may* flat spots - but it could also be the angle the pic was taken at - because I don't see them in all the pictures - just one really. I think he is fine. Dax sleeps in his swing a lot too because he really likes it and it is in a convenient place. His head is fine. Maybe I am missing something - but why would it matter where he is sleeping - I mean I guess sometimes Daxton sleeps on his side or starts out on his side but he almost always eventually rolls onto his back - so what difference would it make if he was on his back in bed with me or in his swing? I mean we can't hold him all day long. I think Finn is fine and you shouldn't feel guilty. It is a whole different game when you have more than one - sometimes they do have to be put down more often than we would like because we have more than one person to look after.

MW - My 3 yo DD sounds a lot like K. She is busy, busy, busy, and yes a lot of the time everyone is so frustrated with her! She is quite mischeivious - and I think maybe she is trying to figure out her place - so she is always pushing everyone's buttons. I don't know - she is just 3 - which I find to be a much harder age than 2. Carrie - it's not just boys! Kacey is wild! I cannot imagine that a boy could be any more wild than her - she is rough and tumble and climbs the furniture and she's loud etc etc...But I love her! I love her quirkiness and I try to think of those things when she is driving me crazy! It's hard though.

Kenya went to my mom's house for a couple of days and it was nice for Kacey to get a little more of our attention - we still had Dax of course - but it was nice for her, and nice for Kenya too - she told my mom she needed a break from Kacey! lol

Daxton has been sleeping really well too - he wakes up sometimes nly 1 time in the night. For ex last night he went to sleep at about 10 and slept until 2:30 - nursed and fell back to sleep until 7, nursed and then slept until 10:30. I feel pretty good - but I still get to sleep in sometimes if Dh doesn't have to go to work early in the morning - which is most days now that it is cold - window cleaning isn't fun in the freezing cold temps we've been having!

Oh yeah - as for being done. I don't know if I will ever feel done. I know Dh is done for sure! lol If we had an accident I wouldn't be sad - but I know DH would never agree to another one on purpose!

hmmmm there was something else I wanted to say......

Oh yeah - Daxton does the same thing - he will happily lay in bed - or sit in his seat or his swing quietly without fussing or anything - he's just a mellow baby. I have had so many people ask me - so when is his fussy time and honestly I can't think of a fussy time - I mean sure he cries and fusses from time tot ime but he is not a fussy baby and rarely cries - sometimes he just wants to be held or what not, but he is generally very easy going

MW - Very brave mama! I am glad things went well for you at the restaurant.

Well better go get some sleep while DS is and DD are both sleeping soundly!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Yay MW on a good first dinner out w/all three boys! Sounds like that bucket seat comes in handy sometimes! I know there have been times when I wished I had one but now DD is almost sitting up on her own so there won't be any need for it.

I tried to give DD some banana tonight...didn't go over so well! She started to touch it and as soon as it felt slimy, she pulled her hand away like it was the grossest thing ever!







Oh well, there's plenty of time for her to eat. She had a not so good day. I had to take her in to the pediatrician this evening because the cardiologist wanted someone to look at her but didn't want me to have to go to the ER. She was super whiny when she woke up from her nap and usually she's very happy. I hooked her up to the monitor and her O2 levels are back down again in the 60s. She was spitting up more than usual today as well. She had a low-grade fever at the doctor's office so she's fighting something off but her ears and throat are clear. So we just have to watch her and see what happens.

Baby_Cakes, I saw on FB what Nora did to her hair! You got lucky! Both my DSDs have cut their hair and it was not pretty! They both ended up with bangs that were about 1/4 of an inch, if that. Yikes! I cut my hair when I was about 4 or 5. I remember doing it. My mom was on the phone...perfect time to find some scissors!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

MW-- great about dinner!

We bought a travel swing today... I'm hopeful to see if it makes a difference in being able to put her down for a few minutes here and there. She likes the motion of the car...

Also... biggest news- DH got a job today! He's been off work since July, which was great at first, because we got stuff done around the house and yard that we needed to do, and we got to spend time together... but we really expected him to have a job again by September or so, but he was just being a little slow with trying to find a new one... and then when he did get on to fully trying, he wasn't getting any answers back. But he got a call back from his old job today (not the one he quit in July), and they want him back... he starts again on Monday, and has full time hours... and apparently they are more in need of day time, than evenings, which is wonderful. It's a perfect setup, close to home, easy work, that he can leave behind when he leaves the building, instead of bringing the stress home. It gives him enough time and energy as well to keep working towards his medic career.

So excited, and so relieved. We had really good savings built up, and a 25000 line of credit, so we were 'fine', but this month was officially the last of our savings, so as of next month, we would have been dipping into the line of credit. I really didn't want to do that, so it's nice to know we wont have to. And between my mat leave wages, and his wages now, we should be able to replace our savings by summer. Suuuuccchhhh a relief.

This has been such a good week


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: that's great about your DH's job. It's amazing how sometimes things work out just when you need them to! (call it God or the universe at work or whatever - but it is great) and to have a job you can leave at work. Since I WAH, that's not an option, hehe.

MW: Glad dinner went so well and the boys ate calamari!!! wow - Restaurants are when I find the buckets handiest. DD doesn't like to be worn sitting down, and I don't want to drip food on her.

oh: I'm selling the first wrap I bought - it's too heavy and I find I really like the extra length of a 7. - and I *sold* the K'tan; need to mail it today. DD is getting to big for it - it's fine after a wash, but starts sagging after about 30 minutes of use, and due to it's nature you can't tighten it, like you could a wrap or moby.

I still want a poppable, easy to use carrier, and I think a ring sling fits the bill, especially if the shoulder fits right.

I'm trying to decide if I even want to keep on trying to wrap. I love the idea of it, I really do. and I can do front carries in a minute. I could do back carries if my Vatanai wrap wasn't so slippery - but I love how lightweight and non-diggy it is. Otherwise it's perfect. I got wraps to do back carries; that's the whole point. If I can't get it reasonable figured out in the next week or so, I'll just wait until DD can be in a SSC on my back, which is only probably another couple of months.

I hate to give up so easily, but OTOH, I don't want to spend buckets of money trying to find the *perfect* wrap.

And Sleep!! DS must have been worn.out. yesterday. He fell asleep after dinner, at about 6:30. woke up around 8:30-9 and wasn't even awake an hour (time enough for me to change his diaper and get on pajamas) before he was asleep again, and he is STILL asleep and it is 7:30 a.m.

On the subject of sleep. I really hate unsolicited parenting advice, especially from people I otherwise like. A friend of ours (whose kids are now 12 and 9) when I mentioned that DS is taking forever to get to sleep lately she's like, what time does he nap? And I answered honestly, sometimes he does take a late nap - it's not like I can stop him, or try to get him to nap that late; he just conks out. Now, I do wake him up by 6, but really, if he's tired enough to conk out like that, I'm not going to force him to be awake.

and she's like, he needs to nap from 2-4. and bed at 8. I told her, I don't want him going to bed that early, he'll be up at 5. and she says he NEEDS 12-13 hours of sleep at night. Gabe might sleep that long once or twice every couple of weeks (like tonight) but usually he sleeps between 8-10 hours. She says he needs it for proper brain development. I don't like to argue - especially with friends - but I think those are just guidelines. Some people need more sleep than others. It was a very frustrating conversation. It finally ended with her saying something like, well, if you don't mind being up that late, then whatever. ARGGHH and LOL all at the same time!

oh . . .what else . . .I can't remember! I'll be back later. have to work, which is awful on a Saturday, but there it is!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Ohh Kat I agree! Some people just don't need that much sleep. If Gabe isn't excessively cranky, etc, his sleep is fine. If he were nodding off in his food multiple times a day, different story.

Besides, I'm much more likely to watch my kid than a clock. I could never understand naptime starts at 1230 no matter what even if they aren't tired. I'm not going to fight my kid to nap if they don't need it. (Not if they don't "want" it. Different thing.)

Wrapping - I hear you. I love it for small babies but for larger kids and wiggly ones, SCC is my go-to carrier type of choice. I have a RS but ...I think I'm going to sell it or donate it. I like the boba too much, but we'll see. Once Finn can sit maybe he won't be so much "dead weight" and I'll be able to do a hip carry with him w/o it killing my shoulder. Even on quick trips to the store it's digging in before I'm checking out.

A friend of mine is going to give me a few GroVia AI2s and I'm going to give her my nb stash (she's not done having babies). Whew. Free space in the diaper drawer and more dipes for my stash. Did you guys know I only have 9 diapers? Really. That's it. I can't justify buying more. I don't know how committed I can be, and to buy new or even used just for this one baby seems silly. But trading? I'll do that. I might CD 3 days out of the week right now only. If that. Sometimes 2. Sometimes none. I think at that level, it does nothing for the environment or budget. Right? It's just for fun. LOL.

Sleep sucked last night. I felt like I was in the jungle! DD has a cold so she was snoring and sniffling and coughing and gross all up in my face, and Finn was doing like 1 hour stretches and nursing ever HOUR. Ugh. More spit up than normal too, so I think he was having tummy issues. DD woke at 5 when DS was up and was all chatty and I could NOT deal with it. I kept repeating go back to sleep, go back to sleep. I was FRIED! I was very happy DS went back to sleep for a bit and we slept til around 630.

DH is home!!









I wonder if he'll watch the kids while I run out. I want to get my hair trimmed. I don't even care where I go at this point! I might not do it (i'm kind of chicken about that stuff) but it's nice to fantasize.

I'm still broken up about DD's hair. When I walked into the bathroom and saw that devilish grin on her face and all the hair clippings on the floor I think all the blood drained right out of my face. I couldn't believe she did that!! Chris has only seen a picture so far...he's sad but keeps saying it'll grow, it'll grow. He did NOT want her to have bangs. I'm not happy about how choppy it is, but I'm happy she has bangs. I wanted to her to have bangs for a long time. I kept trying to convince DH to either let me take her to get them cut or do them myself, but he wouldn't budge. Now he doesn't have a choice!

I kept telling him that he only wants her hair long b/c he likes longer hair on women. She's a child. She needs a cute little hair cut that's easy for her to manage w/o clips or barettes, or tucking it back behind her ear.

What else? Kat, bummer you are working! Hopefully the hours pass quickly!!

JJ - AWESOME about your hubby's job!! This has been an awesome week for you guys, hasn't it! Very cool. I'm happy for you all!! Since it's full time, does it lend any opportunity for the basement to get worked on? Projects that huge suck, don't they??

I have a baby shower tomorrow and I'm leaving Finn home with Chris. I'm looking fwd to going somewhere fancy, wearing clothes with no spitup -- but nervous to leave the baby for that long. I think counting travel time it'll be about 5 hours. He takes a bottle fine and will be with Chris, so no worries there. But more than 5 hours and my boobs will explode, so it's limited to that. I'm also excited just to be going to a baby shower! To relive that new baby excitement for a bit.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ Hand express a little bit if you have to. Take something to collect the milk in if you think you'll get enough to save.

JJ ~







for your dh getting a job. Perfect timing, sounds like. Life has a way of working out like that if we let it.

Annie ~ I hope Ava is feeling better soon.

Restaurants are the only place I've used the bucket. I tried to use it once at the park when he was really little but he wouldn't stay in it for long. I never bothered to lug it into TKD or basketball. It is always much easier to just keep him in one of my carriers. Soon, he'll be sitting up so we can use a high chair, too.

Kat ~ That reminds me, mei tais can be quick and easy for back carries, a lot easier to do than a wrap. But, I know what you mean about not spending a ton of money trying to figure out which carrier works best for you.

Here's how our night went last night. We all fell asleep pretty quickly once I turned the light out. there was a little fussing at kellen but it wasn't too bad. then D woke up about a half hour later so i had to nurse him back to sleep, which takes at least 10 minutes. he has started squirming and kicking and flailing his arms whenever he nurses and it drives me crazy. he was probably squirming and fussy about every 2 hours and i had to nurse him. patting, rubbing, shusing just made him more upset. i know i slept because i can remember having a couple of dreams, which I usually don't, but it was only in maybe 1 hour stretches. i can't go back to sleep while D is nursing because he kicks and flails so much.

i actually feel pretty good this morning in spite of that. my jaw has been hurting really badly lately so i wore my splint last night. I must be grinding my teeth at night again, which makes it impossible for me to get a good sleep. I sleep so much better when I wear my splint.

the thing is that he sleeps for 2-3 hours by himself during the day. i'm beginning to think he wakes so much because we co-sleep. he can smell my milk and it wakes him, maybe. of course, that may not be a bad thing. maybe that's how things are supposed to be since mammals are designed to sleep with their babies.

Oh, and yeah, I don't agree with the idea that every person at a certain age needs X amount of sleep. And, I think those guidelines about 12-13 hours of sleep are for an entire day, not just at night. I'm pretty sure that's how the Dr. Sears book puts it. So, if your toddler takes one 2 hour nap or 2 1 hour naps during the day, then he'll probably only sleep for about 10 hours at night. But, again, still general guidelines.

Babies and children (for the most part) will sleep when they need to for as long as they need to. I think we (collective society) assume they won't because we spend so much time trying to manipulate their sleep schedules and forcing them to sleep when they aren't really tired. Then they fight us and we conclude that we must train them to sleep. KWIM?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Alysia, your night sounds as rough as mine (if not worse). Have another cup of coffee with me! I'm making apple pie coffee. Yum.

And good idea. I'll bring something to express into. I hadn't thought of that!!

I must be doing something right. My size 4 jeans fit! I don't think they even fit me when I got pg! I still have like a bit of extra that I can pinch that makes me self conscious to wear them with a fitted shirt, but I'm soooo close!









I started doing the Bridge to 10k on the treadmill. We shall see how this goes, lol! It's a LOT of running!

This weekend I'm switching Finnley to Nora's convertible seat, and Nora is going to use a different convertible until I can get her a new 3-in-1. I can't believe he has outgrown the bucket. But it's true. Ours goes to 22 lbs and 29 inches and he's 21 lbs and 28.5. I feel he's safer in something bigger. It's such a tight squeeze! Plus it stays in the car all the time so it's pointless. Just going to switch him. But sad about it. I feel like I just had him! My big boy. He'll be 5 months old in two days!!!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes* 

I might CD 3 days out of the week right now only. If that. Sometimes 2. Sometimes none. I think at that level, it does nothing for the environment or budget. Right? It's just for fun. LOL.

JJ - AWESOME about your hubby's job!! This has been an awesome week for you guys, hasn't it! Very cool. I'm happy for you all!! Since it's full time, does it lend any opportunity for the basement to get worked on? Projects that huge suck, don't they??

No, I think it's still worth it to CD. That's still 2-3 days worth of diapers that aren't going in the garbage!

He will and he won't... I mean he'll still have weekends and a bit of time in the evenings. He hasn't been working on it really at all snice she's been born, because we're both so worn out, so I'm actually hoping that him being out of the house and having 'quiet time', will help him feel more able to be productive once he gets home.

And the bonus is that it's at a home reno store, so we get a discount again on all the supplies. So it'll cut down on the cost of the basement, as well as... you know actually giving us income to spend on the basement. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

Restaurants are the only place I've used the bucket. I tried to use it once at the park when he was really little but he wouldn't stay in it for long. I never bothered to lug it into TKD or basketball. It is always much easier to just keep him in one of my carriers. Soon, he'll be sitting up so we can use a high chair, too.


> the thing is that he sleeps for 2-3 hours by himself during the day. i'm beginning to think he wakes so much because we co-sleep. he can smell my milk and it wakes him, maybe. of course, that may not be a bad thing. maybe that's how things are supposed to be since mammals are designed to sleep with their babies.
> Oh, and yeah, I don't agree with the idea that every person at a certain age needs X amount of sleep. And, I think those guidelines about 12-13 hours of sleep are for an entire day, not just at night. I'm pretty sure that's how the Dr. Sears book puts it. So, if your toddler takes one 2 hour nap or 2 1 hour naps during the day, then he'll probably only sleep for about 10 hours at night. But, again, still general guidelines.


We went out for lunch when DD was two weeks old, and I had her in the sling. The hostess actually asked us if we wanted a high chair. *rolls eyes*

DD wakes up at least twice as much when she's in bed with us or sleeping on us during the day. I think you're right and it's because they can smell the milk. DD used to wake up rooting, and want to nurse, but then she'd only suck a few times and then be awake and we'd have to put her back to sleep. Now sleeping mostly in the p&p beside the bed, she's waking up and actually having good nursing sessions, and then able to fall back into a deep sleep. I noticed even when I pull her into bed int he morning after DH gets up, that she'll start sleeping really lightly and waking up more often.

My youngest brother was one of those kids that didn't need a lot of sleep at all, and my mom got a lot of flak for it. From about one year onwards, he stopped napping, and also only slept from about 11pm or midnight until 6am. They could -not- get him to sleep any longer, but he was awake and happy... so they just wnet with it. He's the youngest kid I've ever known who knew how to operate the tv and vcr, and when he got up early, he would go to the living room and watch movies until everyone else got up.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ That's exactly why I don't bother with the infant bucket seats. My babes grow out of them too quickly. It's not worth the cost. I can't find one that's even just $100. They are all sooooooo expensive.

Yay for being in size 4s! I'm feeling thinner. Can't wait til Monday to weigh myself. My weight loss is mostly from not eating much, though. Like today, I just ate for the first time. Partly it's because there's other stuff I want to do and don't want to waste my free time eating. The other part is that I'm not hungry in the morning most of the time.

I can eat with baby in the sling with he's really little. Dylan's too big now for that to work well. I was just thinking about the fact that the hostess put us at a seat where we couldn't use the bucket sling or a high chair. Who seats a person with a baby in a bucket somewhere that you can't use one of those? The bucket fit on the booth so it was ok but, if it hadn't, she would have had to move us. Silly.

Dylan does go back to sleep relatively easy when he wakes to nurse. Actually, he doesn't even really wake up, just gets squirmy and starts rooting. I do wonder, though, if he'd take longer to start doing that if he weren't right next to me. But I don't have anything else to put him in and I'm not going to buy anything now. Nowhere to put it, anyway. Plus, I wouldn't know how to deal with that at night. It would mean I'd have to get up when he does wake to eat and that just ain't happening. I did sit up and burp him last night thinking that might help. He did burp but still wanted to nurse. It may just be a growth spurt, too, or that he's more distracted during the day and doesn't eat as much so needs to eat more at night. He does get a lot of milk during those times. He's not just sucking a little and then conking back out.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Glad I am not the only one who just goes with the flow! I used to try to lay down with Gabe after lunch, but now we just let him crash.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Carrie ~ That's exactly why I don't bother with the infant bucket seats. My babes grow out of them too quickly. It's not worth the cost. I can't find one that's even just $100. They are all sooooooo expensive.
> 
> ...


Yeah we have a bucket but only because a friend loaned it to us. It's a $260 seat, which just boggles my mind, especially since it only goes to 22lbs as well, and others on the market right now go to 30lbs at least. The convertible we bought rear faces to 40lbs though, and as soon as the freezing weather ends, we're transitioning her into that, regardless of when she outgrows the bucket. The bucket is just for cold weather convenience. However, I will say that for people -wanting- to spend the money on a bucket, I would totally recommend this one. It's so easy to use, just wouldn't personally be worth the money to me.

DH laughs at me when I eat with her in the sling because I just throw a cloth napkin completely over her. meh, she doesn't noticed, she's always sleeping.

Yeah, if he's actually eating, then he probably just needs it still. I noticed -for us- that when we started cluster feeding at night, like Annie suggested, she slept longer stretches at night. To the point where at night she often only feeds now for about 5 minutes each time she wakes up. Almost like she's just topping off so she can sustain her sleeping again. lol If you do want to hold off on his times/rooting a bit, I found masking the smell a bit helped, so she was going by her tummy, and not scent. Either more layers on myself at night, or putting on a light perfume or something. Of course, if he really is having a solid feed each time, then it probably doesn't make sense to try to space them out obviously.

It's funny, she sleeps way better at night in her bassinet now, but during the day, she still won't really sleep out of arms. I can't figure out what the difference is. I wonder if it's really just us being in the same room as her. Worth a shot.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

i can't remember how much i spent on my convertibles. it may have been as much as $300. They are the Britax Boulevards but the old ones from 2006 and 2008, maybe. They go from NB to who knows. K can still use the convertible and he's 4 1/2 years old. those seats will expire before all my kids grow out of them. i think ethan was in his until very close to 6 and still hadn't grown out of it. i just put him in a 5 point booster (the Britax Frontier, which I do NOT recommend) because our insurance company was buying us new car seats. My babies are big but my kids are small. hehe

i didn't realize the newer infant seats went to 30 lbs. back when we had one for ethan, i think most only went to 20 lbs., so even 22 was an improvement.

D is getting a tooth up top. i can see it buldging right under the gum. that could be another explanation for the restless sleep. i gave him some teething tablets before bed the other night but it didn't seem to help. maybe i should try giving him some every time he wakes. that is assuming i can wake up enough to do that. i'm really so lazy at night. i refuse to get up for almost anything. i'll lay in bed awake for a half hour before finally acknowledging that i have to get up to pee.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

DD has the Graco MyRide 65. It was a gift but I think it was around $200. I really like it and would have bought it if no one gave it to us as a shower gift. It fit well from the time she came home and it is super comfy for her. She has a Cosco Scenera in DH's car and it is not nearly as comfy.

Sleep stuff...here's the thing. I've been around a variety of kids between my years working in daycare and then as a nanny as well as my DSC. Sometimes, what appears to be the lack of a need for sleep is actually extreme sleep deprivation. When kids are TOO tired, they don't sleep as much. Seems strange but I've observed it many times. Also, behavior issues can usually be corrected if a child has an adequate amount of sleep. I'm not saying all kids are this way and I definitely advocate watching the baby/child instead of the clock but if you have a child that stays up later than you want them to or wakes too early or has trouble listening or lack of impulse control, it may just be that they are super tired.

Unsolicited friend advice. This is actually something I've been meaning to talk to you all about. I think we are all in the habit of posting articles or blog posts on FB about various parenting issues. Have any of you had friends respond negatively to stuff you post? I have a friend, some of you may have seen her comments on my FB, that gets her panties in a bind whenever I post articles pointing out the dangers of CIO. She did CIO with her 9 month old and to hear her talk, she feels as though it was the best thing for the baby and their family. But then she gets super worked up whenever I or any of our mutual friends post an article that's anti-CIO. She says that these articles are meant to make some mamas feel guilty about their choices and to tell them all the ways they are harming their babies. I've tried to be understanding when discussing it with her but it's reached the point where I feel like her getting so worked up about anti-CIO articles is pointing to something bigger. I haven't said this to her but it seems to me like she's getting so upset because deep down she knows that it was wrong to do. Her opinion is that no one should post parenting articles on FB because we don't know what another mama's situation may be. She gives the example of a mama that may be having trouble breastfeeding and then if she posted an article about how formula is evil, that mama will get even more discouraged. I've countered with the example that a number of my FB friends, a couple of you guys included, post articles that are anti-vax. I don't get offended by those articles because honestly I agree with most of them and if DD had been born heart-healthy, she probably would have received very few vaccines. But I'm confident that I've made the right choice so far for Ava's specific situation. I think it's great that people post anti-vax articles because I think people need to read them. Am I off-base here? To be clear, I think the convo that akind1 relayed was completely rude of that lady to approach the situation that way. My thinking about parenting choices is this: Do your research and then own your decision. I feel the same about birthing choices. Who am I to say that no one should ever get epidurals? But if you decide to get an epidural, do your research and know what the side effects are such as stalled labor, decrease in pushing positions, cascade effect, etc. Just like if you choose to put your BF baby on a feeding schedule, do your research so you know that side effects may include clogged ducts, decrease in milk supply, early weaning etc. If you are o.k. with those potential side effects, fine. That's your choice. Just like I did the research before deciding to cosleep. I knew the side effects may be a change in bedding, the potential to have a child in my bed for many years, DH and I having to go somewhere else to DTD, night-wakings that last many years, etc. I'm ok with all those side effects so I don't get worked up when I see anti-cosleeping ads.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh and DD tasted some solids today. She tasted a bit of roasted potato at Whole Foods and she also tasted my seltzer water. She LOVED the seltzer water. She bit off a bit of the potato, moved it around in her mouth for a few minutes and then spit it out. Tonight, she took a bite of avocado, gave this huge shiver and spit it out. She put a banana up to her lips, licked it a bit and then made a face and pushed the banana away. She still REALLY wants whatever I have on my plate but I'm not ready to let her dive in to a plate of spaghetti! Tomatoes can irritate skin right? And I don't want to do grains for a while longer.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

We bought the MyRide too, and I am excited to be able to use it once the cold weather calms down a bit here. It feels so much safer than having her in a bucket (even though it is a good quality bucket)

The FB thing is difficult. I've posted things before and expected backlash, but people have been good about it. Moreso I see it when I post a comment on -someone elses- 'questionable' posts, that people get their panties in a tizzy. IE that one posted several weeks ago about anti CIO, I posted it, and got support public/privately. But a friend also posted it, and I liked the post, and one of her friends got very heated about how we were 'judging her' and that we shouldn't talk about other people's situations, etc etc. I posted back and said that of course everyone was welcome to choose what was best for their own family, but that it was important to know how it works before using it. She ended up fighting back and forth with the thread poster... and then my --mother-- stepped in, in support of this other girl who was advocating CIO. It was the weirdest thing ever, and I have to admit that I was quite taken aback!

I feel like people take FB too personally. It's almost like a version of your own journal, and you post your own thoughts, things that matter to you, etc. And so I have no problem with people who honestly want information or to talk logically and respectfully, but it drives me NUTS when you post something informative or close to your heart, and someone flys off the handle about it. If you don't like it, and can't be respectful in voicing that opinion, then close the page.

And agreed-- if you've done your research and are confident in your decision, then no one else should have the power to make you feel bad about it. If you do, then you obviously don't feel as good about your decision as you should.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> if you've done your research and are confident in your decision, then no one else should have the power to make you feel bad about it. If you do, then you obviously don't feel as good about your decision as you should.












I think if people get really upset about something like that it's because deep down they aren't comfortable with what they've done. I've had a c-section that I think was probably necessary but I don't know for sure. I still advocate against c-sections. I had Ryan circumcised and left the decision about Ethan up to my dh, who chose to have him circumcised. That one really bothers me because I knew better but left the decision to someone else anyway. I advocate against circumcision. I think some people have a really hard time admitting they that may have made a mistake so they refuse to even consider it.

I've had some people sort of argue with me about things on FB. One person, in particular, seems to like to bring up contrary anecdotes. We don't get angry with each other, though. We seem to be able to discuss things relatively calmly. I have actually been thinking how much I like the fact that all my MDC friends on FB are able to discuss things and disagree and not get upset over it.

With "friends" who continually post things that I strongly disagree with, I usually just unsubscribe from them. That keeps me from starting trouble. I think if someone continually gets upset with things you post and takes them personally, you could try to explain that it isn't personal and you aren't judging but if s/he doesn't like what you post, s/he can always unsubscribe from your updates.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I think if someone continually gets upset with things you post and takes them personally, you could try to explain that it isn't personal and you aren't judging but if s/he doesn't like what you post, s/he can always unsubscribe from your updates.


The other day after I posted the last anti-CIO article, she put something as her status update along the lines of "FB, can you please make an app that hides all parenting articles? I don't come to FB for parenting advice." I didn't respond to it right away but the more I thought about it, the more I felt that I needed to at least let her know that I wasn't posting them to make her feel bad but that I had received messages, both public and private from friends thanking me for posting things like that so they had more ammo to defend their decision to NOT do CIO against their DH or family. Her continued stance is that no one should post parenting articles on FB period. I think that's ridiculous and I am not about to stop posting articles that I find interesting. I'm close to suggesting to her that she should just hide me or defriend me.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> The other day after I posted the last anti-CIO article, she put something as her status update along the lines of "FB, can you please make an app that hides all parenting articles? I don't come to FB for parenting advice." I didn't respond to it right away but the more I thought about it, the more I felt that I needed to at least let her know that I wasn't posting them to make her feel bad but that I had received messages, both public and private from friends thanking me for posting things like that so they had more ammo to defend their decision to NOT do CIO against their DH or family. Her continued stance is that no one should post parenting articles on FB period. I think that's ridiculous and I am not about to stop posting articles that I find interesting. I'm close to suggesting to her that she should just hide me or defriend me.


 I wouldn't worry about it. I think I have turned off or away quite a few people of FB







I mean seriously - I LOVE reading the stuff you guys post! That is half the reason I am your FB friend.

Not even half as annoying as the people who post stuff like "OMG" or "I can not believe this just happened!" without any further explanation and if/when someone asks what's up they either say they are going to text/call them or just ignore them. Really????????? Annoys the sh** outta me! LOL

Seriously though - I feel like the people who have a problem with it are the ones who aren't very secure in their parenting choices. I don't take offense when someone posts something about how "I should vax my kid to save your kid who can't get vaxxed" I may cry about the poor baby in the story but I don't get mad or have to make mad or hateful comments about how evil vaccines are ya know?

If I can even save one little boy from GM or convince one new mom that she should have support set up for BF - it would be worth 1 million lost friends or pissed off family!! When I first heard about people being against circumcision I thought they were kinda crazy and also I didn't really *want* to know because I am Catholic and *have* to circ......SERIOUSLY that was my thought............smh. At least medicaid doesn't cover it in my state anymore - so it should help bring down the numbers even more.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Ok, so totally off topic, but just kinda something that has been on my mind lately.

Someone I *know* from my church. And really, I mean know *of*. I have been friends with the family forever, know family members, etc. but I don't really know this family at all. They just had a baby with a chromosome problem (she has to many or to few) and she is not going to make it. I first heard about it when she was still about 4 months pregnant. The ultrasound showed there were several problems, they didn't know if she was even going to carry to term, etc.

She had the baby, the baby was doing good for a day (how sad! talk about a teaser!) and then she started failing. The longest anyone has lived with this disorder is a year.























The question is why am I so sad?? Why am I borrowing other people's problems? It doesn't make sense. I don't have to get to know this baby girl only to lose her. I am not the mom who had to carry her, birth her, and bury her. I just don't get it. I am literally bawling my eyes out right now!

I feel this way alot. I am not jealous of other people, but I also do not share good things that happen to me with people who I know don't have great husbands or who lead stressful lives. (People I am really close too - and have no reason not to share everything with)

Do I have the opposite of Aspergers? Instead of not knowing how other people feel I feel FOR them?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> The other day after I posted the last anti-CIO article, she put something as her status update along the lines of "FB, can you please make an app that hides all parenting articles? I don't come to FB for parenting advice." I didn't respond to it right away but the more I thought about it, the more I felt that I needed to at least let her know that I wasn't posting them to make her feel bad but that I had received messages, both public and private from friends thanking me for posting things like that so they had more ammo to defend their decision to NOT do CIO against their DH or family. Her continued stance is that no one should post parenting articles on FB period. I think that's ridiculous and I am not about to stop posting articles that I find interesting. I'm close to suggesting to her that she should just hide me or defriend me.


What a loon. I love the parenting articles and blogs my friends find. It seems like this friend of yours has it all figured out already and isn't looking for any advice or commiseration.

I like a good debate. I post a bunch of stuff about sleep and I have a few friends who disagree with my approach, and with cosleeping. I like our disagreements. I learn from them, and I hope they learn from me. But once people stop learning and post derogatory or inflammatory things, you have to put a stop to it. It's YOUR post on YOUR feed! It's not like you're sending her PMs, like look what you did to your kid. You are sharing info. That's what this social network is FOR. If she doesn't like it, she doesn't have to read it or comment on it. Do you want to stay friends with her IRL?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> Ok, so totally off topic, but just kinda something that has been on my mind lately.
> 
> ...


That's awful. I think I'm about to cry. There's nothing wrong with you. It's just when something happens like that, you realize how fragile everything is in life. I can happen to any of us. I think it makes me hug my kids a little tighter and appreciate things a little more. I think you're extremely empathetic and that's a wonderful quality to have.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

i think you can also choose to only see important updates from people. i'm not sure how FB decides what's important and what isn't, though.

annie2186 ~ i agree with carrie. maybe you are a highly sensitive person. i'm like that. did you miss our discussion on HSCs/HSPs a while back? i have a book about it because i think ethan is one, and reading it, i discovered that i am, too.

i think you've reacted so strongly to that because you are a mother and know what it's like to grow a baby in your womb and give birth to that baby and watch her grow so you know how painful it would be to lose that person so soon. it breaks my heart to hear about stuff like that. i'm so sensitive to those types of things that i have to avoid hearing and reading about them too much or i feel like i'll implode.

i had to unsubscribe from someone on FB because she had set that app so that every news story she read would be posted and she read the most awful things. i couldn't even take the headlines. i have to be very careful about what books i read and movies and TV shows i watch, even fiction. my dh looks at me like i'm crazy and says they are only stories. they didn't really happen. but just the idea of they could happen is enough to set me off.

so, anyway, i don't think there's anything wrong with you or your reaction. i think you are probably just highly sensitive and highly empathetic.

AFU, we had a pretty good night last night. dylan was still restless but it wasn't as bad as before. i fed him teething and colic tablets all night. i could feel and hear his tummy grumbling. i'm wondering if his hazelwood necklace is wearing off. i think they have to be replaced periodically but i don't know how to tell when. at one point i woke up and realized D was still asleep after more than 2 hours and got scared. i was afraid he wasn't breathing so i checked him, which woke him up.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> Ok, so totally off topic, but just kinda something that has been on my mind lately.
> 
> ...


No, I think it makes you human! I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Now if you were going around telling this family's story and trying to get people to feel bad for you, then that would be strange. But crying because of the situation? That means you are empathetic and that's good!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> What a loon. I love the parenting articles and blogs my friends find. It seems like this friend of yours has it all figured out already and isn't looking for any advice or commiseration.
> 
> I like a good debate. I post a bunch of stuff about sleep and I have a few friends who disagree with my approach, and with cosleeping. I like our disagreements. I learn from them, and I hope they learn from me. But once people stop learning and post derogatory or inflammatory things, you have to put a stop to it. It's YOUR post on YOUR feed! It's not like you're sending her PMs, like look what you did to your kid. You are sharing info. That's what this social network is FOR. If she doesn't like it, she doesn't have to read it or comment on it. Do you want to stay friends with her IRL?


It's something that I am having to consider. The strange thing is that she's so pro natural birth. That's how we became friends, through our local birth circle. And maybe that's why she feels like she's being bombarded with AP stuff because we have a number of mutual friends and almost all of us are AP and she's not so maybe she feels left out? I don't know it's very strange. One of her friends posted a link to a blog post the other day from this mom writing about how *all* moms feel guilty about something they are doing with their child. Now maybe this is a response to Ava's CHD, but I've got to say that I don't feel guilty about any of my parenting decisions. I'm not second guessing myself on anything. Does it make me sad that I have not been able to get her to nurse? Yes of course. Do I think I made a bad decision introducing bottles right away? No, because it was more important for me to get colostrum and breast milk in her than to worry about the vehicle. I don't feel guilty/bad about that decision one little bit.

DH asked me to put DD on him today in the Moby!







I was getting ready to leave for work and DD just wanted to be held and he was trying to cook lunch for the older guys so I put her on him in a modified ring sling/hip hold. So adorable! He wouldn't let me take a pic but it was very cute. akind1, I agree with you though on the wraps. I haven't used the Moby in so long because it's just too heavy and a pain in my butt. I'm LOVING the Hotslings pouch that my sister gave me. I keep it in the van and when we are going in the store, I just pop DD in it. She loves it and my hands are free to do our shopping!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think there's a difference between understanding that you could have made some better choices, maybe, and feeling guilty about something. I think, if you feel truly guilty (thinking of myself here), it's because you knew what you were doing was wrong but did it anyway. Does that make sense?

I don't feel guilty about anything that I do with Dylan. The only time I feel guilty about my parenting is when I get really overwhelmed and angry and react with yelling. I know I shouldn't yell. I tell myself in my head at the time that I need to stop yelling. But sometimes I just can't. Do I wish I had just told Sean that Ethan would not be circumcised? Absolutely! Do I feel guilty about leaving the decision up to Sean? No, because I honestly didn't know better at the time. I thought Sean would make the "right" decision. Now I know that if I'm very passionate about something and Sean is on the fence or just doesn't really care, I will make the decision on my own.

Sean's that way about spanking. He doesn't think it's necessary but he doesn't see why it's so bad, either. So, if I told Sean that we needed to spank the boys, he would do it. Instead, I have told him that we will not spank them and he's fine with that. Either way, doesn't matter...la, la, la. The only parenting stuff we really disagree on is the radical unschooling ideas. He thinks the boys need a little more parental control or rules or something. I'm really not sure what because he's never actually told me what he thinks should happen. He just makes comments about how it doesn't seem that some of the things we are doing are working. Of course, I think that's just because he doesn't understand how kids are. But I digress. I am actually starting lean more toward his side of things. So, we probably don't really disagree on that very much, either.








for a dh with baby in a wrap. I wish we could see a pic.

Oh, I wanted to say something about introducing solids. Everything I have read says that you should only introduce one new food every week (or it may be every 2 weeks). I know Ava didn't really eat anything but you might want to keep that in mind. It's so, if baby has a reaction to something, you can easily figure out the offending food.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I think there's a difference between understanding that you could have made some better choices, maybe, and feeling guilty about something. I think, if you feel truly guilty (thinking of myself here), it's because you knew what you were doing was wrong but did it anyway. Does that make sense?
> I don't feel guilty about anything that I do with Dylan. The only time I feel guilty about my parenting is when I get really overwhelmed and angry and react with yelling. I know I shouldn't yell. I tell myself in my head at the time that I need to stop yelling. But sometimes I just can't. Do I wish I had just told Sean that Ethan would not be circumcised? Absolutely! Do I feel guilty about leaving the decision up to Sean? No, because I honestly didn't know better at the time. I thought Sean would make the "right" decision. Now I know that if I'm very passionate about something and Sean is on the fence or just doesn't really care, I will make the decision on my own.
> ...


Thanks for mentioning that about the introduction of solids. I thought about that last night and remembered that I had read that somewhere too. I'm probably not going to offer her any more solids right now. She's clearly interested but I don't think she's really ready.

I get what you are saying about the guilt. That's my take too, that if you are feeling guilty about a parenting choice then at some level you must be acknowledging that it was wrong? Hmmm, I'll need to think about that a bit more.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

annie2186 ~ i meant to ask why you thought you had to circumcise because you are catholic. i thought that, according to the respective holy books, jews are supposed to circumcise and christians and muslims are not. that was one way to tell the difference.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> annie2186 ~ i meant to ask why you thought you had to circumcise because you are catholic. i thought that, according to the respective holy books, jews are supposed to circumcise and christians and muslims are not. that was one way to tell the difference.


I know!!! LOL
That is what I mean - there are so many people in our culture that are so uninformed and *I* was one of them.
When I started to hear/see more - it made me think and realize that my religion has nothing to do with circumcision. It is just the whole Jesus WAS circumcised that is confusing, and add the American pro-circ and there you have it.

I dont think I did see the conversation about the book you were talking about. I think I am a very weird and unique personality. I am an extrovert and very outgoing and not shy - however I don't fit the classic mold for that. Then I do have my introverted side too. I don't have many IRL friends, and not because I can't - I just don't have time! LOL

It's very strange, I would love to get analyzed. I bet I'm a weirdo


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

well, jesus was a jew, ya know.









being highly sensitive is not the same as shy at all. HSPs can be extroverted and outgoing. it's about being highly empathic and aware of subtleties that most others usually miss. you should read a book on it. i used to think there was something wrong with me because i seemed to feel everything more deeply than others.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Baby_Cakes, here's a pic of the results of when DSD 12 took scissors to her own hair...


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Now maybe this is a response to Ava's CHD, but I've got to say that I don't feel guilty about any of my parenting decisions. I'm not second guessing myself on anything. Does it make me sad that I have not been able to get her to nurse? Yes of course. Do I think I made a bad decision introducing bottles right away? No, because it was more important for me to get colostrum and breast milk in her than to worry about the vehicle. I don't feel guilty/bad about that decision one little bit.
> 
> ...


No, I think that's a good point. I can't honestly think of any choices we've made with DD that I feel guilty about. Things about the birth I would do differently, but no parenting choices we've made that I question, other than as MW noted- being more patient... but I think that's an -every parent- type regret.

DH wears the sling and the moby, but no... no photos. I prefer the moby for comfort, but the sling is easier. DD can settle better in the moby though, as long as we're able to get her into it while she's still happy. But we often have trouble positioning her comfortably in the sling, and I find the ring rubs on my clavicle, so it's only a short term carrier for sure.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> I find the ring rubs on my clavicle, so it's only a short term carrier for sure.


it's probably not positioned properly. the rings should lie just below your clavicle so that they don't bother you.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

well, jesus was a jew, ya know.








This is actually what got me thinking - because I know that we (catholics) can get tattoo's when Jew's cannot (because of the old testament). So I started asking around (since this was before I truly understood the power of google







) and the rest is history. As a side note - anything I ever post about GM is what brings me under fire on FB. LOL

being highly sensitive is not the same as shy at all. HSPs can be extroverted and outgoing. it's about being highly empathic and aware of subtleties that most others usually miss. you should read a book on it. i used to think there was something wrong with me because i seemed to feel everything more deeply than others.


> Hmmmm - the only thing that is different is that *I* don't necessarily feel everything more deeply than others (I do cry at books and movies - but unless someone *coumyhusbandgh* eggs me on I can usually tell myself its just a movie.
> What I do is feel things more deeply for OTHER people. Like I can pick up when someone is hurt, angry, upset, embarrassed etc. when no one else seems to notice or care. I am not really worried about anything being wrong with me, just kinda weird.
> Actually - the more I think about it (since it has taken me two hours to write this!) I bet I am an HSP.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> What I do is feel things more deeply for OTHER people. Like I can pick up when someone is hurt, angry, upset, embarrassed etc. when no one else seems to notice or care.


That is exactly what I mean. You are very empathic. Not all HSPs experience everything in the same way. It's more of a general sense of being more aware of what's happening around you. A book on the subject would explain it a lot better than I can.

Like with me, it's almost as if I can smell what someone is feeling even if they are trying to hide it. I just know. It drives my dh crazy because he tries to act like everything is fine all the time but I can tell when it's not. He finally admitted to a counselor that I know him better than he knows himself in a lot of ways because of that.


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

hey guys...I'm here...sort of! I'm a total zombie these days, going on maybe 3 total hours of sleep each day/night (can't tell them apart anymore). I'm so tired. I can't keep up with any threads/boards on MDC. I try but I hardly have time to use the bathroom or shower! I forgot how immobilized I am with a newborn. Good thing nature makes you forget or else we wouldn't have more babies! E loves to be held by me or DH. He will not sleep otherwise. Frustrating when I'm super duper overtired but sweet all other times. I love staring at him! He's so beautiful. Nighttime is super hard. Just last night, I finally figured out side nursing (I had to make a pillow for him out of a folded receiving blanket because he brings milk up otherwise). Anyway, halfway through the night, I woke up so stiff and so uncomfortable...at one point, I couldn't even bend my toes. They were on fire (talk about bad circulation!). I can't win! I'm going to nurse sitting mostly upright again tonight. It's really crazy how many pillows I use to support myself in this position. It's not that it's comfortable but I think it's more comfortable than side nursing. Any expert advice here? I know I've done this before but honestly, I forget most of it. It's one big blur when I think back to my last DD 5 years ago.

During the day, I'm using a wrap (Baby K'tan--most awesome thing ever!) and that helps. Dh is still off of work and we have a mother's helper here most days and I can't figure out how I did this in the past with no help. I must have been a raging lunatic all the time. I don't know how you guys kept these threads up all these months. I still haven't even typed up his birth story! I should go do that now.

Carrie- I saw the part about Finn's head...it looks totally normal to me! Don't worry! My old neighbor's baby had a helmet and it was really obvious that she needed one.

okay, he's fussing, got to go!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kindermama*
> 
> Anyway, halfway through the night, I woke up so stiff and so uncomfortable...at one point, I couldn't even bend my toes. They were on fire (talk about bad circulation!). I can't win! I'm going to nurse sitting mostly upright again tonight. It's really crazy how many pillows I use to support myself in this position. It's not that it's comfortable but I think it's more comfortable than side nursing. Any expert advice here? I know I've done this before but honestly, I forget most of it. It's one big blur when I think back to my last DD 5 years ago.
> 
> During the day, I'm using a wrap (Baby K'tan--most awesome thing ever!) and that helps. Dh is still off of work and we have a mother's helper here most days and I can't figure out how I did this in the past with no help. I must have been a raging lunatic all the time. I don't know how you guys kept these threads up all these months. I still haven't even typed up his birth story! I should go do that now.


ITA about side nursing, but I'm also dealing with residual SPD pain, so I think that's a lot of my problem, because it's rare I can get comfy on my side... but also, I just don't think my boobs are big enough. I have to lay practically on top of DD for her to be able to take enough of it into her mouth, and then I'm left kind of balancing using my legs. Once the SPD pain goes away, and shes bigger, I'll try again, but for now, it's just more work than it's worth. I have three pillows I sleep with every night- one goes straight against the wall, the next one is just slightly reclined, and then the one I actually put my head on is about halfway reclined. When we nurse I start sitting half up, and then depending on how tired I am, I'll slide my body down, sometimes so I'm almost lying flat, with DD on top of me. It's been working for us, and since there's so many pillows behind me, I'm able to rest my head on those and doze.

I get what you mean though about managing with no help. DH has been home with me this whole time (DD will be 7 weeks on tuesday), plus we've had his mother come over about a half dozen times to help with housework, or just hold DD so I can nap, etc... and I can't -imagine- what I would do without him home. It makes me terrified of another baby, because I know that we'll likely only get a few days of him being home... and then I'll also have an older DD to look after.

And yeah... almost 7 weeks, and I'm barely started her birth story. But it doesn't help that I'm being very detailed for myself. I'm two pages in, but I think it will probably be around 8-10. For me it's not just about gwetting it out for her/others to read, but also to help myself process it.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Kinder ~ Advice about side lying nursing. I always have a pillow between my knees. I sleep like that all the time. A blog I read said to put bottom arm straight out under your head and the pillow. Not sure what to do with your other arm. I was always a bit stiff and uncomfortable in the first few months. I wanted to put my arm across baby but was afraid the weight was too much. Roll over on your back when you can. I can't think of anything else. It does get better, though. Hang in there and sleep day and night whenever you can.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Ok guys so I have a silly problem. DH was complaining about how messy and disorganized DD's closet is (we've got -everything- in there, all her clothes, toys for now, diapers, bath supplies, etc, and then also on the bottom, totes of all the clothing she hasn't grown into yet). He took DD tonight and fell asleep with her in bed (though she's back with me now, nursing...) so I took the opportunity to go through it and destash some of the clothing and stuff. I went through the things she's outgrown already, deciding what to give away/sell, and what I want to keep for when I one day convince DH to have another. And then I also went through the next size of clothing we have for her, and tried to pare that down, and put the extras into the giveaway/sell bin.

I can't do it. I only got a handful of items that I was like 'yeah, I'm not excited for her to wear this'. lol For the next size up, which is roughly 3-6m, even after paring down I've got 15 sleepers... and that's not counting the somewhere around 20+ onesies, 5 zip up sweaters and about 10 pairs of pants. Or the items from the current size that she'll still be able to wear for awhile. I --know-- she doesn't need this many clothes. I didn't buy -any- of those items since she was conceived. A few items were purchased by me over the past few years as I combatted baby fever, but most of them are just hand me downs. You wouldn't think I'd be this attached to it! lol.

I know realistically, at any given point I only need about 8-10 sleepers, 5-7 onesies and 4-5 pairs of pants in her closet. Right now she's in sleepers all the time, other than at night, she sleeps in just a onesie, otherwise she overheats. We've started putting 'outfits' on her just so that she can wear them, but even some of the pants/onesies she's currently wearing she hasn't quite grown in to. I'm just worried if I don't put them on her now, she won't get around to wearing them again before she outgrows them! Because there's so much of everything, it's easy to forget something that's sitting at the bottom of a bin! I'm drowning in clothes! lol

In a serious problem/question though. How many diapers approx do you go through from about 5-6m onwards? Without really being able to predict DD's growth, she was 8lb8 at birth, and we think about 10 now. Her small diapers say that they are 6-18lbs, and even though she's still on the smallest snap setting for them, I figure she'll probably outgrow them somewhere around 6 months. Once she grows out of them we'll lose 7 AMP and 7 fuzzibunz. DH hates the FB we have, and I'm not a fan either, so we're looking at selling them sooner in favor of some OS diapers I think, but I can't decide how many I'm comfortable with. We're currently doing laundry every 2-3 days.

ps. I'm starting to think that if I didn't pull her off, DD would nurse all day long, and just never stop. She's obviously in a growth spurt, because she used to nurse for about 10 minutes every 2-3 hours, and then get kind of lazy, and would start pulling off/falling asleep, and I could take her off. Lately, she's wanting to nurse every hour or hour and a half, and she'll nurse for 20 minutes plus, before I finally get tired of her pulling on my nipple and chomping and try to distract her with burping or something. Times when she's actually stayed on without playing around (though not actively nursing), she'll stay there for 45 minutes, just... hanging out... such a silly girl.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: I put DD in outfits when we go out - which is alot! - othewise she's in sleepers. Now at home, I could care less if we only use 2-4 sleepers (my favorites have zippers!). But for outfits . . . It's so hard NOT to buy for a girl. I try to have her wear every outfit once. There are a few I don't reach for, and if I really don't reach for it, I put it up. FWIW I go through her clothes about once a week.

As for diapers. For DS (who I've CD from 7 months through present) I have about 27 diapers. I would say fully 10 of those are what I would call my emergency stash diapers - ones I don't reach for for whatever reason - but hang onto in case laundry gets delayed, or we go through a poopy phase. I do diaper laundry 2x a week.

Gabe goes through usually 4-5 diapers a day, so if I were to do laundry every 2-3 days and not have a backup stash, I think I would want no less than 15 diapers. I am comfortable with the amount we have, though I wish *all* of them were diapers I reach for. But I don't think the ones that aren't would sell well. I am at least their 3rd owner, the inserts are getting threadbare around the edges on some, and the WAHM ones wick. But I can't bear to throw them out!

Carseats: we got our bucket on Target clearance for $50. otherwise I probably wouldn't own one. It's a babytrend, so I know it's a good seat. It was on clearance because it was an online purchase, in store return, which Target marks down 50%.

The convertible DS has been in since birth - the Combi Coccoro, which I highly recommend, especially if you have a small car and average to small babies - cost $179. I am holding out for the carseat sales/clearance that's supposed to happen soon for I think a Graco Nautilus (for Gabe), which normally runs about $140, but I've hears will come down close to $100 when the clearance happens. Depending on how good the sales are, I might pick up a convertible for Norah too, She will only be in the bucket a few more months. I like to transition babies out of it when they become no longer useful: i.e. babies sit up well on their own to be in a cart or highchair (unless she grows out of it sooner)

Side-lying nursing; my neck gets sore. the bottom arm is under my pillow. The top arm (mine) is usually either on top of my side, around her as kind of a brace, or behind me, depending on what feels comfortable. I haven't had any hip issues, so can't comment there.

Articles on FB: I have friends on both ends of the spectrum. I don't share articles, because I don't know how from my phone. I like the ones I like though!

DH will wear, but I've only gotten him to do it in a SSC. He won't wrap ::

Guilt? - maybe regret that I have to work, and so therefore can't focus on the kids all the time like I'd like to. There are things I wish I had known or done differently about Gabe's birth. But you know, if he hadn't been a c-section, and I hadn't wanted to VBAC, I would have most likely missed out on meeting an awesome group of local! women that I met through the doula I hired for Norah's birth. Maybe I would have met them through other channels, but who knows? But God knows I need more IRL friends, and who knew that I'd meet them this way?

DH leaves most of the parenting stuff up to me. He doesn't have super strong opinions on it - his strong opinions are more political and metaphysical. I know he's glad we chose to leave Gabe intact. It's one of those things that the more you learn about it, the less likely you are to continue to agree with it. There was an awesome peaceful parenting link on FB from a Dad that explained why, as Christians, you should choose *not* to circ, and also the history of circumcsion is not like what we practice today anyway.

DH agrees with me in theory about spanking/smacking. sometimes habit/instinct takes over though. (I agree though, sometimes I'm tempted! but then I remember that this sort of discipline just is pointless - it doesn't really teach Gabe anything and probably won't fix the behavior and might make it worse)

I am sure I am forgetting something !

Kinder - hang in there mama!

MW - on how you feel with Dylan - he was very wanted, but . . . .one of my IRL friends feels that way about her 3rd, very wanted, she had to do a round of Clomid to conceive him - so very intentional - but there are days she wonders what she was thinking starting over. her other 2 were 10 and 7 when the 3rd was born. and the 3rd has just added a level of chaos and also more expense than she really thought he would. but she wouldn't ever choose to NOT have him. I think whenever you add to your family (unless you're the Duggars maybe) you have moments of "what was I thinking?!! I know I do, and I only have the 2! and want another down the road.

will end this book here - Happy Monday!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

baby clothes ~ D is almost always dressed in a t-shirt and woolies. i have maybe 8-9 long sleeved shirts and 8 pairs of longies. i don't really need that many longies but i can't stop knitting them. Sometimes I think I need more shirts only because he drools so much. He gets his shirts literally soaked. I try to remember to put a drool bib on him but some seem really tight. I have a ton that people gave us as gifts for all of the boys that I had never used before.

I have 4-5 sleepers and a couple of other romper type outfits that friends gave me that he sleeps in. Some are actually left over from when Ryan was a baby! He has one lightweight fleece jacket, one of those full body winter cover all suits and one thick coat. I've never used the coverall and I think the coat was only used a few times. We don't go out much. Plus, you're not supposed to use thick coats when they are in carseats so I put his fleece jacket on and cover him with a blanket. Most of the clothes I have are hand-me downs from Ethan and Kellen. I did have to buy new small baby stuff because I guess we gave away a lot of Kellen's tiny baby stuff since Sean him to be our last. I feel like I should have some more baby clothes packed away somewhere but I've searched and searched and can't find any.









I'm very practical about clothing. Just enough to get us through a week with a few extras for emergencies is all I buy. I don't buy clothes just for fun or fashion. When I was at Toys R Us recently getting b-day gifts for Ethan, I looked at the baby stuff. I always look to see if there's anything that hits me that I need. I thought about buying a couple more sleepers but didn't. We really don't need them. I have to do at least one load of laundry almost every day just to keep the loads manageable so, even if he goes through 2 outfits a day, he won't be without something clean to wear. I did buy Dylan a pair of thick, lined winter booties. I knit booties for him but they aren't lined so I figured one pair of really warm ones would be a good idea. I'm the same with the older boys. 8-9 pairs of pants, maybe 10 shirts, lots of socks and underwear, 2 pairs of shoes, 1 jacket for each type of weather and that's it. They do have more knit sweaters and hats and mittens than they could possibly wear, though.









diapers ~ I have no idea how many I have anymore. I think I made sure I had at least 3 dozen before Dylan was born so I wouldn't have to wash them too often. He's grown out of at least a half dozen and I've had to throw away probably that same amount. So, my guess is that I probably have around 2 dozen. I was every 2 days now, I think. I really don't keep track of it. I only know I feel like I've been having to wash more often than I like. It sneaks up on me. I look in the diaper drawer and suddenly realize I'm almost out of diapers and have to hurry up and wash them. That's just my fitteds, I think, not my PFs, pockets and AI2s. I don't count those because I only use them when we go out, which isn't much. I probably have a dozen and a half of those.

I'm slowing trying to acquire some more diapers. Many of my older ones from when Ethan and Kellen were babies are falling apart. Dylan's growing out of them, too, so I don't feel so bad about it. Not like the brand new OS dipes I bought that are disintegrating. I'm trying to decide if I want to spend the money on a dozen or more new fitteds or if I want to just slowly transition to PFs only and not replace my fitteds as they wear out. My PFs certainly seem to hold up better and they are cheaper so definitely a better financial investment. plus, i think they might be easier to resell. but, the last 2 times i used them i had a leak and then a blow out. i think both times were because of how i put them on. the leak because somehow his penis was pointed to the side so he peed straight out of the diaper. the poo blow out because i used the twist instead of the angel wing fold and that one doesn't create gussets to catch runny breastmilk poo.

All of that to say that I like to have at least 3 dozen usable diapers when they are infants. Dylan still needs changing at least every 2 hours, and that's not including poops.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I'm posting again to break up these topics. I figure 2 long posts are easier to read than 1 very, very long post.









On Dylan, Kat, you've hit it exactly. I don't not want Dylan. It's just a lot more than I expected. I think Kellen was such an easy baby that I thought the next one would be, too. That was normal, not the constant attention that Ethan needed. He was definitely high-needs. And Ethan was such an easy kid at 3.5yo and up that I guess maybe I assumed Kellen would be easier at 4. Well, Kellen has become a very challenging little child and Dylan is somewhere in between Ethan and Kellen as far as neediness and ease. He needs more interaction and attention than Kellen but not quite as much as Ethan did. I feel like all my kids are suffering because I'm stretched so thin. I don't see how one person could possibly take care of 3+ young children and/or babies.

I think that's probably most of my problem. I'm the only parent/adult. I have to do everything for everyone plus take care of our home and finances and special events and everything else. I like to think things would be different if Sean were here. I hope they will be once he is home. If nothing else, at least there will be someone else to cook and share taking the boys to various sports and whatnot. Maybe I'll be able to sleep in on a Saturday morning or even just have a cup of coffee before I have to start serving everyone else.

Here's something Dylan is doing wrt sleep that I wish I could change. He's on a pretty regular schedule. He wakes up around 8:30, takes a 2-3 hour nap around 11:00, takes a 1 hour nap around 4:00 and then another 1 hour nap around 7:00. It's those 2 late afternoon/early night naps that I wish I could change. It would be so much nicer if he would take just one other 2 hour nap during that time, say from 4-6, and then stay up until bedtime around 9-10. That last nap means he's up later than I like. I don't know how to change it, though, if there's even a way. I can make him stay asleep longer for that late afternoon nap unless, maybe, I left him to cry until he finally passed out again, which you all know I won't do.

Ryan said the cutest thing about him yesterday. He was telling Dylan how cute he is and then he said, "Until you start moving around and your poop changes and your breath stops smelling sweet and gets stinky."







The thing I really liked about that comment, whether Ryan realizes it or not, is that it's shows that he knows how breastfed babies smell, or don't.


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## BelindaAtes (Jan 16, 2012)

hello- we are new members..could you provide some guidance? I am trying to start a thread on fostering to adopt or through an affordable founadtion. Can you help me? thanks


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BelindaAtes*
> 
> hello- we are new members..could you provide some guidance? I am trying to start a thread on fostering to adopt or through an affordable founadtion. Can you help me? thanks


Here's the board for that: http://www.mothering.com/community/f/165/adoptive-and-foster-parenting


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: that is cute!

I think clothes wise, the difference is boy vs. girl. It's awful to say; but boy clothes just aren't very cute, or at least not as cute as girl things. - and there isnt much variety. You've got preppy boy stuff and skater boy stuff and not a lot in between. Gabe probably has close to 15? long sleeve t-shirts, a couple flannel button downs, and a handful of short sleeve shirts (out -there are more I put up with summer stuff), and likely close to 10 pairs of pants. This much because leaks do happen, he is a very messy kid - eating and playing wise, and well, we like to shop.

Norah has probably 5-10 outfits, 1/2 dozen dresses (most of these are pretty casual ones), and maybe a dozen sleepers. If we had unlimited $$ she'd have more, LOL. I admit though - all the sleepers are gifts. a couple are hand me downs from Gabe. I find shoes both decorative and neccesary - they help keep socks on and make tights look better.

If you are Stride Rite people - all of their clearance shoes are 2 pairs for $30!!! we got Gabe 2 pair in the next size up. They normally retail for over $40 a pair, so that's a great deal on good qualilty shoes - which he needs since he's rough on shoes.

wrt Dylan's naps - can you sort of dream feed him towards the end of the first afternoon nap to get him to sleep longer?

That'a all I've got.

My ring sling will be here tomorrow and I traded my Hopp 6 for a Zara 4. I figured if I don't like rings, I can do the same style wrap with a knot. and even if I do like rings, I can keep the wrap in the house (where poppability is less of a need) and keep the RS in the car. I love my Vatanai though so am going to hold on to it for now. I love the length, I can wrap DS with it if I need to (I tried and he let me!) and I will one day manage a back carry!

OH and DD is comfy in the Boba now! both front and back! I wouldn't have tried her on my back but the boba is high enough that it comes behind her head providing support. But after seeing some Kinderpacks, I think I might switch to that for a SSC, it has a better seat (deeper seat darts) and I might actually be able to nurse in it. I don't see how I could in the Boba; she's too high.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

I'm very practical about clothing. Just enough to get us through a week with a few extras for emergencies is all I buy. I don't buy clothes just for fun or fashion. When I was at Toys R Us recently getting b-day gifts for Ethan, I looked at the baby stuff. I always look to see if there's anything that hits me that I need. I thought about buying a couple more sleepers but didn't. We really don't need them. I have to do at least one load of laundry almost every day just to keep the loads manageable so, even if he goes through 2 outfits a day, he won't be without something clean to wear. I did buy Dylan a pair of thick, lined winter booties. I knit booties for him but they aren't lined so I figured one pair of really warm ones would be a good idea. I'm the same with the older boys. 8-9 pairs of pants, maybe 10 shirts, lots of socks and underwear, 2 pairs of shoes, 1 jacket for each type of weather and that's it. They do have more knit sweaters and hats and mittens than they could possibly wear, though.








So, my guess is that I probably have around 2 dozen. I was every 2 days now, I think. I really don't keep track of it. I only know I feel like I've been having to wash more often than I like. It sneaks up on me. I look in the diaper drawer and suddenly realize I'm almost out of diapers and have to hurry up and wash them. 
All of that to say that I like to have at least 3 dozen usable diapers when they are infants. Dylan still needs changing at least every 2 hours, and that's not including poops.

See that's more reasonable for clothing. The problem is that I know I have too much, and we haven't been acquiring any more (I won't have to buy anything for her other I don't think until over a year, with all the hand me downs we've gotten), but I can't bear to part with the ones we have. oops! And yes, she also has wayyy too many crocheted sweaters, booties, and hats. She did not like the newborn cotton hats, so I'm giving away all of those except for one or two that match outfits (I didn't buy any, but we were given about 10 total), and the booties never seemed to stay on/fit right, even though socks do. So again, I'm getting rid of almost all the booties. I'm only keeping a few knitted warm hats that we pop on her when we go outside. And she doesn't wear any of her sweaters, but they were so much work, so i'm having trouble letting go of them.

We currently have about 22 diapers, plus she -just- outgrew the newborn bummis- so that cuts out two covers and 10 prefolds. We're just using the prefolds as inserts now for the pockets, but the covers are a last resort. We do have sposies in the house at all times though, so if we forget to do the laundry too often, we can pop one of those on her. It's only happened once, and only because it took two days to finish washing the diapers. lol. I think I'm aiming for 20 for the next size. We have 7 OS, plus 4 mediums, my MIL has the materials to make 3 more, and I'm buying 6 more OS today. So anything above this in theory should be extra, though I wouldn't mind having a few more just to be safe. BUt at least I don't feel totally under-stashed for the next size.

I'm excited for the ones we're picking up today, we're getting 6 AMP OS, plus 6 microfibre inserts and 6 hemp inserts, plus 3 kushies training pants (which I'm not really counting in the cost), for $100. Good deal for the AMP! People seem to sell them used for almost as much as new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

On Dylan, Kat, you've hit it exactly. I don't not want Dylan. It's just a lot more than I expected. I think Kellen was such an easy baby that I thought the next one would be, too.


> Here's something Dylan is doing wrt sleep that I wish I could change. He's on a pretty regular schedule. He wakes up around 8:30, takes a 2-3 hour nap around 11:00, takes a 1 hour nap around 4:00 and then another 1 hour nap around 7:00. It's those 2 late afternoon/early night naps that I wish I could change. It would be so much nicer if he would take just one other 2 hour nap during that time, say from 4-6, and then stay up until bedtime around 9-10. That last nap means he's up later than I like. I don't know how to change it, though, if there's even a way. I can make him stay asleep longer for that late afternoon nap unless, maybe, I left him to cry until he finally passed out again, which you all know I won't do.


Would you be able to put off his 4pm nap a little bit and see if that helps him sleep longer for that nap? Or conversely, maybe try putting him down a bit earlier, and then he might be tired enough to take his 7pm nap at 6 or 630. Of course it's all based on his moods, which as we've seen, isn't all that controllable!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BelindaAtes*
> 
> hello- we are new members..could you provide some guidance? I am trying to start a thread on fostering to adopt or through an affordable founadtion. Can you help me? thanks


I'm pretty sure there's a whole forum on adoptive parenting, but I can't seem to find it right now. If you look through the forum lists at the top you should be able to figure out where it is.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: sounds as if you are well stashed!

as for getting rid of clothes there are 2 ways to do this: either set yourself a limit, say 5 outfits in each size she's outgrown, that you would like to keep and would really miss if given away or test each thing you have by it's senitmentality and usefullness for the next babe. And you still might want to set yourself an upper limit.

Love the new fluffy stuff! I have PP now that I sold a wrap . . .considering just throwing away the diapers I don't like/don't use and getting a couple that I would. hmmm.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I wonder if that random post was spam. I answered it with a link to the adoptive parenting forum but now they are both gone. Strange.

There's really no putting off a nap. If he's tired, he's going to sleep. I'm not doing anything to try to get him to nap. He falls asleep while nursing. I'm not going to wake him up. Then we'll both be miserable because he gets very fussy when he's tired. I'm sure it will work itself out eventually. I remember Kellen going through a phase of kind of weird napping times but after a few months he was doing 2 decent naps a day.

I'm glad I only knit one sweater for Dylan. He hasn't worn it at all. It goes with only one pair of longies. It's supposed to be an outfit. Thing is that it's either too warm or too cold for a sweater. We don't get much in-between weather here.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> considering just throwing away the diapers I don't like/don't use and getting a couple that I would. hmmm.


Why not try to sell them, too, or at least free for shipping?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I wouldn't mind doing that with the inserts, because they are still useful. but the pocket diapers themselves; at least 2 of them wick and the rest are really loose around the legs and have leak issues. I don't like to sell things, even FFS, that are in that sort of shape. It's not the leg elastics - I know those can be replaced - but just the way these are cut that they are loose around the legs -even on Gabe, who is skinny otherwise, has really sturdy thighs.

Inserts, I might keep . . we'll see.

I totally didn't see the adoption post. hmm.

hopefully this stage will pass quickly!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Ooh i have two hands free!!

Kinder - all to be expected! It's a crazy ride at first, isn't it? We were all just there. I remember it too well!!

Honestly, I'm much busier now that Finn is older b/c he just requires so much more from me. He's awake so much more and while he's not high needs/maintenance, if things are going ok with the house and chores are done, I like to play with him.

Clothes - I'm finding, after having a girl the first time around, that having a boy is so much easier and practical. I buy cute things for him but I don't feel as compelled to buy everything. Really his only accessories are socks and bibs -- such a nice change from bows, hats, clips, tights, bloomers, etc!! Once girls can crawl dresses are completely useless. They get caught under their knees and frustrate the heck out of them. So, JJ - if you find you have a bunch of dresses in like 9 mo or so, those could be the ones to go. Seriously! Save them for the walking years!!

I find cute shirts for Finn everywhere. I like ones with sayings or patterns. Ones with a picture on the front always gets covered by his bib.

Naps - Finn has been taking a long nap (2+ hours) smack in the middle of the day lately. Prob from around 1230 or 1 until 3. Wonderful -- except when I need to drop DD at school at 215. So. Last week my MIL sat with him so I could take Nora. This week Chris is home, so if he's still out, I'll leave him. I HATE to wake him up. So far I havent had to.

On days he doesn't take that nap, his sleep is very unpredictable and broken. He'll catnap in the car or on the boob. Bedtime doesn't really change though. He's almost always down by 9.

Last night I was smart (for a change). I put Finn to bed at 830 ish, put Nora to bed and of course passed out with her. I got up at 11. DH was waiting up for me even though I asked him not to b/c I just can't stay up and chat and watch TV that late. I got Finn out of the swing, fed him, and put him to bed. Went right to bed. I need to do this more often!! I felt relatively rested this am for the first time in awhile!!

Oh - the baby shower yesterday was nice! I was gone in total from about 1130 until 430. I left a bottle plus 2 bags of milk thawing so DH would have no problems feeding Finn, but he slept the ENTIRE time I was gone! He did that the last time I went out, too. He realizes I'm not there or something, wants nothing to do with anyone, and just sleeps.







AFM though, SO nice to get out and chat with other people. I didn't know many people there at all, so I was chatting with the girls at my table. All were moms. It was scary, and quite the reality check. Out of all of us, myself and one other woman had vaginal births. The rest had c-sec from babies who were "too big" or had pelvises that were "too small". One woman went a week over and was induced and didn't progress. All were in labor for 10+ hours (one as long as 19) until the dr finally called a c-sec. I felt overwhelmed for these women. Bittersweet conversations.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

It is amazing how epidemic c-sections are, and mostly for reasons that aren't valid. It does make me sad. And how many women choose a RCS because they don't want to fail a TOL and just find scheduling it to be easier.

My VBAC was hard won, and I would do it again, even though the recovery was harder than I imagined.

oh, and I'm loving Nora's bangs! they suit her.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> It is amazing how epidemic c-sections are, and mostly for reasons that aren't valid. It does make me sad. And how many women choose a RCS because they don't want to fail a TOL and just find scheduling it to be easier.


I doulaed for a woman who hired me essentially only because she wanted to avoid a c-section. In the end though, she really didn't prepare for labor -at all-, opted for an epidural the second she got to the hospital at 2cm, and then managed to get to 10 and pushing. She pushed for about 15 minutes, and then the doctor offered "you can keep trying... or we can just do the c-section now." The poor woman jumped at it, really I think just because it was -her- choice then, and she wanted something to be her choice, since she didn't feel like she had control over anything. It was heartbreaking, and it took -me- a while to recover from how emotionally draining she was as a client.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Poor mama! (and you too!) there is only so much you can do as a doula. I am not one, but having hired one myself, and now we are friends, I know that not all clients are ideal, and well, you (as a mama) can't expect the doula to do all the work; all a doula can do is support you. What a shame that she likely *could* have pushed a baby out, but was *pushed* into a surgery instead.

This last year, when in my small group (at church) there were 4 couples expecting baby #2 or #3. 3 of us had had c-sections with our 1st baby. 2 chose to RCS. One really probably needed to; when they went in to do the RCS the OB said her uterine walls were paper thin and she bled like crazy. Under a TOL she may well have had a bad rupture. The other mama, even though her babies are big, I think could have had a VBAC, even up to the delivery her doc told her the baby was in great position for a vaginal delivery. I love that the doc even really stuck to waiting until at least 39 weeks before scheduling the c-section even though the mama was done and baby was big. I think he was over 9 lbs, and is 22 lbs now at 5 months old.

at any rate, it is always the mama's choice, whether I agree with it or not. it just makes me sad and mad, when women are pushed into decisions without being really informed, or being misinformed.

*off soapbox now*

I wish the weather would just be warm or cold. I hate this back and forth. ugh.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

JJ, I hear you on the clothing issue. I haven't bought anything for DD and only a few pieces were given specifically to her but my sister and my sister's BF gave/loaned me all the clothes from their DDs. Ava has a LOT of clothes! Luckily, my sister has room to store everything and she keeps things super organized. So when DD was first born, I went through the newborn/0-3 month bins and picked out what I wanted. When she was starting to outgrow that stuff, I went through the 3 month and 3-6 month bins and picked out what I wanted and returned the other stuff. Only problem with that was I did it a little too soon and forgot what I had picked out. I put the 3 month bag in my closet and didn't find it again until it was too late! DD couldn't wear any of it!







So I'm trying to do better about only taking what she will wear in the next couple of months so I don't "lose" any again. My sister isn't sure she's done having kids so she is keeping all of the clothes at her house. We decided the other day that she'll hold on to them for a couple of years and if neither of us is having another one, then we'll give them away or sell them. Right now, DD has about 10 sleepers, 8-10 onesies, 6-8 outfits and a couple of dresses. Even when we wouldn't go out, I would still change her clothes for the day. I don't like to sit around in my PJs and so when I would get dressed, I would dress her too. We leave the house just about every day now so she gets dressed in outfits daily.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

annie, I so hear you on "missing" the chance for certain items. So many of DD's things still had tags attached b/c I forgot about them and she passed them over in size.

I was thinking about this while I was out shopping just now. I think I might just be better suited for boys, even though I wanted a girl for my first so badly. I tend to dress Nora like I dress myself -- jeans/t-shirts/sneakers -- and I am happy when she plays in dirt and gets messy, etc. She, however, always chooses dresses, skirts. Her favorite gift from christmas this year are her princess dresses and these awful fake plastic dress up high heels. She LOVES these things. They are so cute on her, too, and she loves to dance and sing and all that. I think she has a good balance though, b/c she also loves to play her nintendo DS, she has fun with her magnifying glass, looking at bugs and dirt and what not.

Anyway, I was just thinking with how simple it is for me to dress a boy, how much I enjoy boy-like things, and how easy it'll be for me to encourage rough/dirty play, I might just be a better mom to a boy. We shall see, I suppose.

I think the only guilt/regret I have about how I parent is when I lose my shit, as well. I think all the choices I've made so far are in line with my beliefs and wishes, and how I "planned" things.

I have an etiquette question for C-Sec mamas and VBAC'ers - is it rude to ask a fellow mom when she says she had a C-sec previously if she's planning a VBAC for her next one? Is that info too private? WDYT?

Kat - can you keep me posted about when the Graco Nautilus goes on sale? That's the seat we are hoping to get for Nora!! That would be an awesome price!!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Also - this is totally O/T but I wanted opinions...

A few of my friends have 3 year olds who are writing words and their own names already. I was super proud the other day b/c Nora was able to free hand an S. What gives? I know that kids are all over the place, but now I'm feeling like I dropped the ball somewhere along the line. I sat with Nora for a bit today and we practiced some letters and how to write her name. She can do some letters better than others...but there's no way this kid is ready to write her own name, let alone a sentence. What's normal for 3??


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

re: etiquette - Whenever I say I had DS by c-section, I get asked about Norah's birth. BECAUSE she was a VBAC, I love to answer it, and don't find it offensive at all. I feel it does give some mamas encouragement and hope that it can be done.

I feel it's ok to ask. I think people can tell when you are asking from a pure, honest curiosity standpoint, and when you are being nosy, rude, and judgemental. As long as you are the former, it might get some minds open to options. But that's just me.

Even DS had too many clothes to wear his first year. we soooo overbought! LOL but it was fun!

DD isn't rolling yet, but she's trying! she gets on her side and rolls back.

As far as what's normal for 3, it depends on what you introduce. I mean, depending on where you're at on the unschooling ------ structured school spectrum that could be various things. I think Nora probably could be writing her name if you were really working with her and practicing it. However, I don't think it's a big deal if she's not. She'll get there when she gets there. I think it would be more of an issue if you were actively working at it and she just couldn't manage it or wasn't making progress. Then you might could wonder if she needed some additional help.

Gabe loves watching alphabet singing videos on youtube. I don't sing with him that song, but I do wonder how much of it he internalizes.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ I've always felt the same way wrt to having a girl. I didn't want a girl for a really long time because I'm so not a "girly" person. I just knew if I had a girl she'd be into frills and lace and dress up and I would have no clue what to do with her.

Asking the VBAC question. I guess it depends on how well you know this person. If it's just someone in passing, I think it's too personal. If it's a friend, I think it's fine to ask. I wouldn't be upset if even someone in passing asked me but I'm sure some people would. Of course, she always has the option of saying she doesn't want to answer the question. Maybe you could lead off with that. "May I ask you a personal question? You can tell me if you don't want to answer."

I agree it should be the mama's choice, assuming she's fully informed and not in a vulnerable state when asked to make that decision. The thing that gets me is that most women who choose a RSC, or even a first c/s, aren't fully informed or are not asked at a time when they can make a rational decision. Asking a woman in labor about having a c/s is just not fair, especially if it's stated like quoted above. Basically, "you can choose to do it now or it after more wasted time pushing, but either way it's going to happen."


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

All good points. She was starting to get it. I just looked online and babycenter (yuck) said that by this age, she should be able to make an X and an O. Ok, she's got those down! LOL! But no, seriously, she can recognize all the letters in the alphabet and can sing the ABCs, but she's nowhere near sounding out sounds or words.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

you know where i am on the structured schooling-unschooling spectrum. ethan probably didn't write his name until he was 6 or 7. since we home/unschool it wasn't an issue. except for at school, when would a young child to write her name anyway?

comparing your child to others is a bad idea but i know it's hard to not do. i struggle with comparing ethan to his schooled friend who can read and spell a lot more than ethan sometimes. but, i can see ethan learning more every day. almost daily, i'm surprised by what he can do. my dad gave him a big book with small print for christmas. one day ethan sat down and just started reading it without any help. kellen was quizing him today on math problems and ethan was quickly spitting out the answers without even thinking about it. he was simultaneously playing a video game.

as a comparison, which I know I just said I shouldn't do, I gave Ethan a 1st grade level standardized test last summer without ever teaching him or having him do structured school work. He scored above the 95th percentile in everything. The aforementioned friend who's been in school since Kindergarten was held back a grade and had to go through a year of extra tutoring just to get passed to the 2nd grade. So, just because a child may seem to know or do a lot more than your child on the surface, doesn't mean they truly understand any of it.


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> I gave Ethan a 1st grade level standardized test last summer without ever teaching him or having him do structured school work. He scored above the 95th percentile in everything.










That's awesome! I was doing the banana dance when DD12 passed the 5th grade via testing when DH was telling everyone she was "sooo" behind. She even scored 8th and 9th grade in some areas. Feels good, huh!

AFM

Thanks for the pep talk! I'll try the pillow between my legs. Like JJ, I still have some SPD going on. Never had it any other pregnancy. I hope it goes away soon. I can't wait for E to take "naps". When does that happen? Right now, there is no schedule what-so-ever. Whenever he wants to sleep, he sleeps and when he's not asleep he's usually nursing. Here and there, he'll be alert and either just listen and watch everything around him or he'll be super active and move a lot (and scratch his face if his nails aren't trimmed). We were going to take his NB pics today but I flipped out on DH. I literally roared at him. I'm mad at him because, well, because I'm f'ing jealous that he just goes on with his life. He has managed to do lots of errands, check his email, play with the bigs, gone on outings with the bigs, poop, pee, shower, eat whenever AND exercise every single day since E's birth. He has also slept in even when he didn't wake at night to help me. Our mother's helper comes at 7am but she's a HELPER. I don't want our kids not seeing either of us in the morning before school. I didn't say anything the first two weeks because I figured DH deserves sleep too but man, now I'm just mad. DH stayed tuned in for 4-5 days but then was off in his own world since then. Men







I'm mostly a mess from the lack of sleep but there's something else....I have some hidden anger towards DH from not being tuned in. The man has ADD and he will make up errands just to keep busy all the time, no joke. I feel really overwhelmed. Okay, enough whining.

I hear you about wanting a baby but feeling like "what the heck did I do" once they are here. E was so wanted. DH had a vas reversal for heaven's sake.....but I was more anxious this pregnancy and I am more of a mess this time after his birth...probably because he is/was wanted so much. But with that comes the thought "what the hell were we thinking thinking we could handle this!" I love my boy but really....I miss sleep. I miss showering. I miss leaving the house. I miss eating yummy dairy and gluten! I miss my old life. It's all good though. He's my new life!

CLOTHES:

I'm with MW. I buy the bare essentials. I used to shop shop shop but it got ridiculous. I couldn't even close the dresser drawers and half the clothes weren't even worn. For E, I have 3 gowns, 3 sleepers, 2 pair of wool socks, 2 wool hats, 2 wool longies and 2-3 long sleeve shirts and we just wash every other day or so on quick wash. They outgrow newborn size so fast that I didn't buy much. When they start eating solid food, I definitely like to have some extras on hand but I still plan to stick to the essentials.

DIAPERS

I always had 30 diapers....I used FB in the past with success. Right now, the XS FB don't fit right (why did they change the original design?!) We're using prefolds, 8 fitted and one-size Charlie Banana pockets for now. I might give one size FB a try. I definitely want to stick with pockets. They are so much easier for us!


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> As far as what's normal for 3, it depends on what you introduce. I mean, depending on where you're at on the unschooling ------ structured school spectrum that could be various things. I think Nora probably could be writing her name if you were really working with her and practicing it. However, I don't think it's a big deal if she's not. She'll get there when she gets there. I think it would be more of an issue if you were actively working at it and she just couldn't manage it or wasn't making progress. Then you might could wonder if she needed some additional help.


I agree with this!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Kinder ~ I think it was a few months before Dylan started taking anything like regular naps. I can say now, at 5.5 months, he's got himself on a pretty regular schedule. He's probably been on it since 3 or 4 months but it's now more set. Without having someone else around to help, I just started being able to get regular showers a couple of weeks ago when Dylan was able to sit up in his bath seat. We take a shower together.

Would your dh be more helpful if you gave him specific things to do? I think a lot of men just don't know what to do in the early weeks and months when babies don't seem to need anything except Mama. if i don't tell my dh what to do, he won't do much of anything. most of the time, though, he will do whatever i ask. it gets annoying having to ask all the time. i think he should know by now but there's not much i can do about that.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

DD is 3 months old and just reallly started napping rather than just in a sleep/eat/awke cycle. I haven't really got it pinned down as to when they happen yet, but I've had to start actually putting her down for a nap, which means nursing or wearing. or sometimes just cuddles, but she's not in that newborn-doze-off-whenever stage anymore.

I didn't do it as much with Gabe, but I LOVE babywearing. I don't know how people with kids as close to gether in age as Gabe and Norah are do without it. (maybe they use a stroller more??) I use the stroller, and have nothing against its use, but babywearing is so much easier, and I still get snuggles that way.

I have a mom's night out tonight! I am so excited! an evening w/o my MIL!!! and it's nice to have time without DH too once in a while, hehe. It's with a local cloth diaper group (that I didn't even know existed until a few weeks ago!)

MW: did you read any books on unschooling? if you did, are there any you liked and would recommend? I'm just curious.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> you know where i am on the structured schooling-unschooling spectrum. ethan probably didn't write his name until he was 6 or 7. since we home/unschool it wasn't an issue. except for at school, when would a young child to write her name anyway?
> comparing your child to others is a bad idea but i know it's hard to not do.


It's really hard not to compare! I need to stop doing it and just go with the flow. Before seeing what these other kids are capable of, I wouldn't have dreamed that she "should" be able to do it.

Do you follow a curriculum, even loosely, then for the boys?

When do you find time to do it?

I find that even though she may not be writing her name, she has strengths in other areas. She is awesome at coloring, and can memorize lyrics and words to things practically the first time through. (That's something I can do as well). She can pretty much recite episodes of her favorite shows without being prompted!

And she draws awesome faces, and makes up stories to go along with the characters she draws.

Something I read (maybe in a link you posted, MW) is that most of what kids spit back out at this age is just memorization and not things they actually learn. So ABCs and 123s and even 2nd languages isn't something that will stick unless it's kept up. Food for thought.

I also think that you're right in that unless there is a reason for a child to be writing their name, I shouldn't worry over it. And it wasn't/isn't school that prompted this -- I have one friend who is homeschooling and the other, I'm not sure, I only know her online, but I'm pretty sure her girl isn't in school.

They both only have their 3 year olds though. I think that b/c I had Finn, I'm slacking a bit in what I could be teaching Nora just b/c I lack the time and thought to do it.









For the most part, Nora's school is free play. She gets there, they go outside or to the gym to play. They have snack. Then the teacher may read a book to them, or introduce a letter, or they'll do a dance game. Then free play in zones (kitchen, drama, sensory, art, building). They have a few potty breaks in between. Then the rest of the time she's there she can play whatever.

Her favorite part of the day is the last half hour or so. They bring whoever is left, whoever hasn't gotten picked up yet, down to one room that just happens to be the young toddler room. TONS of toys there, puppets, dinosaurs, cars, puzzles, you name it. The two teachers that run the room are SO nice. Last night I went to pick Nora up and she was wearing a scientist costume with a funny hat and vacuuming the rug with a toy vacuum! And of course I didn't have my camera, the ONE time I didn't have it with me!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Would your dh be more helpful if you gave him specific things to do? I think a lot of men just don't know what to do in the early weeks and months when babies don't seem to need anything except Mama. if i don't tell my dh what to do, he won't do much of anything. most of the time, though, he will do whatever i ask. it gets annoying having to ask all the time. i think he should know by now but there's not much i can do about that.


I agree it's annoying to ask but it's the only way to get things done that need doing. Even now, 5 months after baby, if I don't remind DH to do things, he doesn't think to do them himself. Even if I leave DS with him for an extra hour of sleep in the am, when I come out, I have to ask, did you change his diaper? Sometimes he hasn't! Ugh. Gross. Poor baby!

Kinder - ASK. Tell him you need him home to do XY and Z. Tell him you need him home just so you can sleep if you need to! Or that he needs to help with chores, or just BE THERE with you.

I don't think that's whining or too much to ask.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I didn't do it as much with Gabe, but I LOVE babywearing. I don't know how people with kids as close to gether in age as Gabe and Norah are do without it. (maybe they use a stroller more??) I use the stroller, and have nothing against its use, but babywearing is so much easier, and I still get snuggles that way.
> 
> I have a mom's night out tonight! I am so excited! an evening w/o my MIL!!! and it's nice to have time without DH too once in a while, hehe. It's with a local cloth diaper group (that I didn't even know existed until a few weeks ago!)


Ditto on the bw'ing!! I don't know how I would get thru most outings w/o my carrier. I'm more comfortable, baby is, and plus is just so much more convenient.

Yayy for a night out!! Enjoy!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Sounds as if she has a great school! When I "taught" preschool (it wasn't really teaching; I was one of the leads in the preschool age room in a daycare) that is pretty much how our day went. the closest really structured thing sometimes was crafts.

I think focusing on kids' strenghths is important. DS, for example, isn't really speaking in sentences yet, and doesn't have as many words as some of his age mates. But his comprehension is awesome, and he follows directions really well. He loves songs with hand motions, and I need to learn/remember more of them. after one or two repeatitions? I can't spell today . . . . he follows along well with the motions. he doesn't try to sing along. and he works the iPhone and iPad better than most adults.

He doesn't dress himself yet (should he be able to? or try?) Sometimes he tries to UN dress himself. But that's not something I've had him try yet.

DH doesn't change diapers nearly as often as I'd like. FIL actually is far more on the ball about that. Even if he does sometimes put diapers on backwards LOL


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Kat, Nora JUST started dressing herself and changing her clothes like 65 times a day! She could do one or two things before probably but never showed interest. All of a sudden one day she got dressed on her own, and a few times that day she announced she was going to "change".

It's fun but messy. She ends up throwing her clothes all around her room.

I like that not much about Nora's school is sitting and doing. That's not what I wanted for her at all -- but I did want some sort of education going on (for what I was going to be paying). So, learning a letter, learning a song, learning to follow direction. Learning to interact with other kids her age. That's what's important to me for her right now.

So, lately, whether it's teething or wonder week, who knows, Finn's sleep has been sucking. Two nights ago he was up like every hour and it was murder. He only wanted to lay on me, which I just can't do, I can't sleep well like that. I put him in the cosleeper and he immediately started fussing. I always sleep in a tank top and a tshirt, so quickly I whipped off my tshirt and set it right next to him, and took his arm and wrapped it around it. Almost instantly he snuggled up to it and relaxed. I did it again last night and it worked, too! He slept for like 2.5 hours in a stretch! So -- idk if it'll help anyone, but had to throw that out there. I think that's pretty cool.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

That's a relief then; he cooperates with getting dressed. The only thing he tries to put on himself are socks and shoes (with no success, unless they are mine or DH's LOL)

Sorry the sleep has been sucking. Usually when my sleep sucks, it's my own fault for not going to bed when I should. I think with Gabe, he only woke alot to nurse right around the time I got pregnant and right after until he weaned; he was nursing every hour. Norah hasn't done that yet, the waking every hour. I hope she doesn't!

no tips or tricks, but hang in there!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Kat ~ I've only read 2 unschooling books, the unschooling handbook by Mary Griffith and Sandra Dodd's Big Book of Unschooling. I can't remember if I found the first helpful. I read it a long time ago. I've never pulled it back out again. I like Sandra Dodd's book. Is more of a collection of thoughts/essays. They are interesting and very mind-opening if you don't know much about radical unschooling. Mostly, I joined yahoo groups and read blogs and websites.

This is a good one: http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/. Sandra Dodd has a website, too. I find it hard to navigate. It's not organized in a way that makes sense to my brain.

I left the yahoo groups and don't read the blogs or websites anymore because they got very redundant. I realized the same handful of people dominate all the online radical unschooling groups. It's really quite bizarre. No matter which group, website or blog I found, there was at least one of these same people saying the same things. Some are very nice about it and make a lot of sense. Sandra Dodd, however, is quite abrasive and can be downright rude and nasty. I think it's more in her writing/web posting style (maybe she's kind of like me, blunt and to the point) but she upsets and angers a lot of people.







because of that, i don't really recommend her.

i've also gotten to a point where i'm not sure all the things people report on the internet are true. It seems too good to be true, especially after my experiences with it with my kids. I'm sure those people who promote RU would say the problems come from me not doing things correctly, and they may be right, but I think that's more because it's impossible for anyone to live that way rather than it being a personal flaw of mine.

That's wrt the social/behavioral/discipline stuff, not the educational stuff. I do believe that kids will truly learn if they are allowed to explore the world the way they want rather than being taught what anyone things they should know. And, I also still believe in the basic concepts of RU. I don't believe in forcing or refusing any foods or clothes or any type of personal expression. I guess the only thing I really fail at wrt RU is cleaning. I do sometimes make the kids clean because I just can't do it all myself and I can't stand to leave things the way they are. I also haven't figure out how to get the boys to get along within the principles of RU. I could spend my entire day discussing, empathizing, negotiating and never get anywhere so sometimes I just make the decision whether the boys like it or not. I guess maybe some RUers would say those situations are sometimes unavoidable and I'm not a failure for having to do it on rare occasions. I remember a lot of them suggesting that when you have to do something like that, to tell your child you are sorry but you don't know any other or better way atm and allow your child to suggest other solutions at another time. Anyway, I could obviously go on and on. There is so much to cover. No way to cover life in a web post.

Carrie ~ Unschooling is the opposite of curricula. My kids just live and play and learn. I do have workbooks laying around but only because Ethan likes to do "schoolwork" sometimes. While I may sometimes suggest that he do some reading or writing or drawing or painting or whatever, I don't ever make him do anything like that. We don't follow any schedule. We don't have school hours or even school days. The only reason I keep an attendance sheet is because it's required by the state. It's really a joke because I just check off almost every week day as having been attended. I mean, how can you be homeschooled and be at home and not be in attendance?







Every day is part of their education. It's impossible to not learn so it's ridiculous to think in those terms (to me, anyway). Everything that we do is just as important as anything else so there are no school subjects/academics that are more important or emphasized over say TV watching or video game playing or cleaning the toilet or grocery shopping or talking with friends.

Frankly, I think Ethan has made the strides he's made in reading from playing video games on the PS3. He's also learned a lot of math and problem solving from them. Yesterday he was playing Uncharted 3 and was doing these puzzle parts. It reminded me a lot of the Indiana Jones movies, which we had just happened to watch the night before. He had to solve puzzles in order to make his way through some tomb or something and collect artifacts. He had to repeatedly refer to his notebook in the game and read and remember directions. Lots of problem solving and critical thinking and fun.

I'm not really sure how Ethan has learned all the math he knows.







He just seems to know it. He intuitively knows how numbers work and can do multiplication and division off the top of his head when presented with a real life problem. He can walk into a store, look at merchandise, add and estimate costs and determine if he has enough money, how much more he needs or how much he'll have left over. He doesn't even know that he's doing MATH. There's no fear or confusion around it. He just knows and does it. It's really amazing. I think that's where that understanding vs. rote memorization that you mentioned comes in to play.

Kellen is already following suit. He can add and subtract. He can look at groups and intuitively know how much is there, how much less or more will be after sharing it or whatever. I used to joke just a few months ago about how he could count to 10 in Korean but still couldn't count in English (not in front of him). Then, spontaneously, maybe a month or so ago he counted something straight through past 10. I can't remember how high he went. Some people might say that 4.5yo is late to just be doing that, but just like writing your name, what need does a 2-3yo have for knowing how to count by themselves? And, even if they can repeat back what you say, does that mean they understand it all? I know Kellen understands exactly what it means when he counts because he's doing it for practical reasons not just to be reciting words without concrete meaning. Again, I could go on and on so I better stop now.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

ITA wrt the rote memorization; I have friends whose kids are Gabe's age that count, but I don't know that they understand that One is 1 thing - I think more likely they are just repeating back a series of numbers. Same with ABC's.

I don't know if I could be as unstructured as radical unschooling, because I think some kids really benefit from structure - it does help some kids focus and learn better. Granted, not all kids work well within that system, but SOME do.

I don't know if I said this, but back before Christmas, we did our first storytime at the zoo - Gabe went right in and sat on a stool, and pretty much stayed there the whole time. I was shocked, because, as far as I know, we've never done that before. Even on TV, the closest is Olivia, which part of that is in a classroom with desks. Now, of course, there were a lot of other kids sitting on stools, but maybe that just shows how well he kind of observes and adapts to what a situation requires. (because it's not like I told him to go sit on a stool, I didn't think he would)

He's always surprising me with what he's capable of.

MW: I think it's great how well your boys are doing with math. It's always been my opinion that kids hate math because the teachers that first teach them math hate math and don't know how to teach it. The teachers go into things like fractions with fear and trepidations, like "this is hard stuff" and the kids absorb that feeling with the subject matter. I didn't like math, even though I was good at it, until I got to high school and had teachers that really liked it and knew how to teach it so we'd enjoy it. They need those sorts of teachers in elemetary school, so the kids start with a love of learning math.

IME lots of elementary school teachers love reading and crafts and music, but few, if any, like science and math. IDK why, but that's what I've noticed.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I like that not much about Nora's school is sitting and doing. That's not what I wanted for her at all -- but I did want some sort of education going on (for what I was going to be paying). So, learning a letter, learning a song, learning to follow direction. Learning to interact with other kids her age. That's what's important to me for her right now.
> 
> So, lately, whether it's teething or wonder week, who knows, Finn's sleep has been sucking. Two nights ago he was up like every hour and it was murder. He only wanted to lay on me, which I just can't do, I can't sleep well like that. I put him in the cosleeper and he immediately started fussing. I always sleep in a tank top and a tshirt, so quickly I whipped off my tshirt and set it right next to him, and took his arm and wrapped it around it. Almost instantly he snuggled up to it and relaxed. I did it again last night and it worked, too! He slept for like 2.5 hours in a stretch! So -- idk if it'll help anyone, but had to throw that out there. I think that's pretty cool.


ITA about 'school' at that age. I think for the first several years that kids are in a formal setting, be it daycare, nursery, montessori, pre-school, or even just kindergarden if they don't do something before that-- I think the important take away from those years is the interaction and social development. As you pointed out, the rule following, and directions, etc. I don't so much care if my child (in theory) learns their ABCs or counting while at 'school', I can do that at home. I want them to be able to interact well with others and learn to be in a public setting.

Tenley has had a rough couple nights too, and I might try your trick. She wants to be on me, and the last little bit I've been latching her on, and then dozing off myself. But the problem is that then she nurses for ten minutes or so, and then on and off for the next two hours while I'm dozing, she'll latch and unlatch, all the while flailing her arms and legs. When I finally decide it's enough and she needs to go to sleep, and unlatch her for good, she shrieks bloody murder. It sometimes takes 45 minutes to calm her down again, and usually only through me nursing her again. But if I stay awake and nurse her for 10-15, and then gently pull her off, I can put her down in her bassinet within 10 minutes and she'll sleep for 2 hours or more. The problem is that I'm so tired during the night, that I've started more often falling asleep nursing, and we end up with the first scenario. I think I'm going to try a few nights getting out of bed to nurse her, and then bringing her back and seeing if it helps. I'm a walking zombie during the day right now, and at night, she cries, and I want to cry. lol.

DH had his first day back at work yesterday and we survived! lol We went to the library, the deli, the bank, and stopped and picked up more diapers, and then dropped by my aunts for the first time so she could meet Tenley. Funny/not funny about the diapers. 6 of the inserts were supposed to be hemp/bamboo (I honestly don't remember), and when I picked them up and went through the bag, they're totally toddler sized bummis prefolds. It was still a great deal, but really people? I didn't check over them properly when I was there because DD started screaming.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

There are levels to radical unschooling and you can have structure without rigid schedules and things. I think that's something that's confusing about RU. People read or hear about it and think it means the kids have no limits or structure or boundaries or anything but it doesn't have to be like that. It's more about not using force, fear or coercion to make kids do things. It's about finding ways to get kids to want to do things. It's really hard to explain, which is why I think there's so much confusion about it.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

see, I just figured it meant you let kids learn on their own without a curriculum; I figured you would still instill some boundaries and structure in a general sense.

Some homeschool is super-structured (especially the "canned" programs that include videos, etc - the parent is really a proctor, not a teacher) I don't like those at all. I want my kids to learn to really THINK about things. not just force feed them facts.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

there's unschooling that is like you described and then there's radical unschooling when the concept encompasses everything about the child's life. there are people who unschool academics but are still super strict about food and chores and bedtime and stuff like that. RUers let their children decide what, when and how, if at all, they do any of that stuff. there's no making kids brush their teeth or bathe or refusing to let them have soda or eat ice cream for a week or limiting TV or computer or video game time. the idea is that they will learn to self-regulate, which they do for the most part.

my difficulty with RU is the cleaning. i can't keep everything clean on my own, especially with the messes the boys make. they will clean some eventually if i wait long enough. the thing is that i usually can't wait long enough. i get overwhelmed and anxious about the mess and have to have it cleaned and i need their help. I do see how forcing chores and applying punishments when they aren't done is problematic so I try to make it fun and all of us working together but I'm not always successful at that. I do sometimes tell the boys that they can't have people over or play with friends until the house is cleaned at least some, which is upsetting to them, but sometimes I just don't know what else to do.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

See, with chores, I do think kid should be encouraged to do them. Not forced, but definitely encouraged. I also like allowances (as in monetary ones) when the child is old enough - maybe 5? -

Even now, Gabe is only 2, but he can choose to "help" with dishes after dinner. regardless of whether he does or not he gets a treat after. (the treat does help transition him when the dishes are done, otherwise he would stay and play in the sink all night) I really don't believe in forcing kids to do things. I don't think it really teaches anything, other than resentment towards the activity and the person forcing them to do it.

I *think* when we start schooling, I want there to be a pattern to the day, like wake up, breakfast, clothes, etc, then a period of guided activity - like books or arts/crafts or music/dancing - then free play, lunch, repeat. What I love about home/unschooling is that you have the flexibility to follow your kids' interests. You could spend a weekend on a historical trip to Old Salem, for example rather than just a couple hours you'd get in a school field trip.

Alot will depend on if I'm still working when Gabe is school age, and how much of it's at home. and whether and how much DH is working too.

So - I got my ring sling! and I can nurse in it! not hands free, but at least with one hand free. I like it well enough that I think I will get a water sling too: now is the time to get them cheap on FSOT.

I decided to spend my PP on the clearance BG 4.0's - buy 2 get 1 free - I know we like them, they still fit Gabe well, and should work on Norah too.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> there's no making kids brush their teeth or bathe or refusing to let them have soda or eat ice cream for a week or limiting TV or computer or video game time. the idea is that they will learn to self-regulate, which they do for the most part.


See, that's the part where I think some kids NEED structure and guidance. My DSC have that type of environment over at their mom's house and they have yet to self-regulate and you can see their ages in my siggy. Funny/not funny story about that. I bought new toothbrushes for everyone right before Christmas. The kids came home Christmas Day and I told everyone that I threw away all the old toothbrushes and they needed to come choose a new toothbrush from the package. I left them on the kitchen counter and assumed everyone did that. Christmas was on Sunday. On Wednesday afternoon, DSS 17 was getting ready to go to his girlfriend's house. He comes in the kitchen and says to me "Did we get new toothbrushes? Where's mine?" I pointed him in the direction of the remaining toothbrushes but all I could think was that he had not brushed his teeth since he came home on Sunday....GAAAAHHHHH!

So I know all of you saw on FB that DD is back in the hospital. I updated her caringbridge page with the story but basically, her sats were low, 63-68% and her doctor said she needed to be in the ER. After we got there and he checked her out, he admitted us. She's still there. I left her w/DH so I could work my scheduled shift for tonight. So I just need to complain for a minute about something. Now, this may not be the healthiest thing but whenever there is a crisis/issue that needs to be addressed, I just dig in and take care of things til the situation is resolved or the crisis is over. I don't whine about being tired, I can run on little to no sleep, go hours w/out going to the bathroom or eating, etc. I just do what needs to be done. I noticed a difference in the people around me and how they handle situations like this after Ava was born but I thought my frustration was hormonal etc. But it's cropping up again. DH is whining about the air in the hospital room making him sneeze, he only got 5 hours of sleep, he's tired, he's hungry, he's thirsty, he has so much to do, etc. My mom visited this morning and she was complaining about how tired she is because she was worried about Ava and didn't fall asleep until about midnight. I'm just looking at both of them thinking "you people have no idea!". I had MAYBE 3 hours total of sleep last night, I haven't showered since yesterday morning, hardly had anything to eat, went hours yesterday evening before I could get DD settled to the point that I could go to the bathroom, etc. All I can think is get over it people! We need to deal with DD being in the hospital. We don't have time for you to whine about your cold/allergies or whatever. Take some medicine and move on! GRRRRR!

Oh and about the t-shirt thing that Baby_Cakes suggested. Here's a pic of how I am able to get DD to sleep away from me:



That's one of my pillows that she is leaning up against. A lot of times, she will turn her face towards the pillow and rub it with one hand. She needs to smell me near her. I think that's why she naps so well in our bed during the day because the sheets smell like us. Also that striped blanket she's laying on was in our bed for a few weeks so it smells like us too. I need to start sleeping with a new one and replace that one soon.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Annie - Ava is adorable, and I hope she is home again soon. What's her next surgery?

I don't know if it is some women, or just mamas, but I am the same way. I have not been in as extreme a crisis as you, but in just day to day life, I survive on less sleep with less comfort measures (food, showers, etc) without complaint than DH or MIL can handle. As long as everyone doesn't fall to pieces!

feel free to vent away!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ I say tell your DH and your mom all of that. You don't have time to listen to their petty complaints when your baby is in the hospital. They probably have no idea that they are putting more stress on you (not doing it on purpose, I mean) but they need to know.

Are they still discussing her surgery today? Did her docs give you any idea of what they will recommend?

I give my boys allowance. Ethan has gotten one since he was 5 or 6. I want to say 6 because I had to give Kellen and allowance since Ethan was getting one and I only remember giving Kellen $3. I give them the amount of their ages every week. It's totally arbitrary but that was the best I could come up with. It's not tied to any chores or anything. They get it because they are part of the family so the family money is part theirs. I also don't want them to learn that they should be rewarded just for being responsible for themselves. KWIM? They are expected to keep their own spaces clean because that's what's expected, not so they can get paid. They can earn extra money for doing special jobs like cleaning the windows or washing the car but not for just helping me with some regular thing. Like, I don't pay Ethan extra when he cleans a bathroom. That's a normal, every day household chore and needs to get done without anyone being paid.

The thing with knowing whether or not a kid will self-regulate, say with brushing their teeth, is that you have to wait until they do without any pressure or fussing or anything. You also can't apply it to kids who go to school. They have to be free all the time, not just while home because a parent isn't involved.

If the oldest is only 11, you can't say that they won't do that on their own. Almost certainly, with every person, s/he will eventually brush his/her teeth. That doesn't mean that you can't remind the child and talk to the child about why brushing and eating healthy and drinking plenty of water is important for dental health (but not in a scary way and be honest. you can't say that if you don't brush your teeth, all your teeth will rot and fall out. there's just no way to know something like that and, if you say untrue things like that to the kids, they will eventually not believe you about most things.). You just don't make the child brush his teeth if he doesn't want to. You don't hold a screaming toddler down while you brush her teeth. You don't tell an older child that he won't get any treats, candy, unless he brushes his teeth. You provide them with toothbrushes and toothpastes that they like and remind and encourage but don't nag or threaten or get angry or punish if they don't do it.

I've never actually had any trouble with my kids brushing their teeth. They need to be reminded and sometimes we all forget. Kellen needs help focusing on getting it done because he's so full of energy and so distractable. But, I've never had one of them just flat out refuse to brush their teeth for more than a day or two. And, here's the thing, once they become teenagers you'll have no control over that at all. Ryan went for I don't know how long without brushing his teeth during his early teenage years and I wasn't into RU then. He also didn't bathe very often during that time. He would just rinse his mouth with Scope and use a lot of Axe. The house reeked of Axe!







I think it was around 17 that I realized he was showering and brushing his teeth regularly. He hasn't had any major problems with his teeth, a few cavities but that's it.

An RUer would tell you that you can't say self-regulation didn't work because your child watched TV all day for two days or they didn't brush their teeth for a week so you had to step in, especially if you are anxious about it the entire time. You have to really let go of it all and let the children decide all the time every time without any kind of pressure. And, different kids have different regulators. Ethan has said before, "Time to turn off the game. It's not good to play video games too much." He will walk away from the screen to play outside with friends (unless he just got a brand new he really likes). He also turns down desserts or doesn't finish all of a soda he's given because he knows he can have as much as he wants so he doesn't need to scarf it. Kellen is the same way. He'll turn the TV on but then run off to play. He'll have a choice of water, juice, milk and soda to drink and just as often he'll choose something other than soda. Both the boys are like that, actually. They ask for veggies and eat them. They know when they are tired or not feeling well because they haven't eaten well.

I don't have any fear of them having eating disorders or being addicted to the screen because they are given the opportunity to learn for themselves what's healthy and what isn't rather than having someone else always telling them what's good and bad for them. Now, I can't prove this, but it's the complete opposite of most other kids I see who are controlled so much. Those who aren't allowed sweets or soda or TV or computer will gorge themselves on them when given the chance, all the while afraid of getting caught and punished. It's really sad to see.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

WRT brushing teeth: Gabe does his when we brush ours and he happens to be nearby. He'll ask for his toothbrush and go to town. We've never brushed his teeth for him.

The only personal hygeine thing that I've ever forced is nail clipping. I had a victory a few days ago, because I was clipping Norah's nails and went to clip Gabe's and he let me without fussing. I don't know if it's because he saw me do Norah's and she was ok, or what, but I hope it happens again! I've let him play with clippers and he loves to pretend he's clipping nails with them, or some other object, but he has always fought that. I do try to force it, because his nails get filthy underneath and scratch him and us. otherwise I wouldn't care.

that sounds like a good rule of thumb for allowance.

as far as just letting kids be . . . I don't know, I think there do need to be some external boundaries places on them. They will have them as adults - like speed limits - (though I could argue that these are largely ignored) and should learn to work within them. I know I let Gabe "get away" with far more than most parents of toddlers. He's allowed to climb and jump and stay up late. He doesn't have a set nap time. But we do try to model and encourage safe ways to climb and jump. and he will always eventually fall asleep.

Like jumping on the couch (I personally don't care really, but MIL does) - I started placing big floor pillows on the floor and he is permitted to jump on those, and he loves it. Granted, he still does jump on the couch sometimes.

IDK; it's one of those things where if it works for you, go for it; if something else floats your boat, great! But I love hearing how people do things differently, because it gives me some ideas of what to do as the kids get older.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> But we do try to model and encourage safe ways to climb and jump. and he will always eventually fall asleep.
> 
> Like jumping on the couch (I personally don't care really, but MIL does) - I started placing big floor pillows on the floor and he is permitted to jump on those, and he loves it.


This is exactly the type of thing a RUer would recommend. If your child wants to do something that is unacceptable to you or those around you, find a way that s/he can do it in an acceptable way rather than just outright refusing and punishing for breaking the rule. Modeling is a big thing, too, as you do with brushing teeth and, probably, clipping Norah's nails.

RU doesn't mean not having any boundaries, either. Most everyone has boundaries. It's about finding ways to get everyone's needs/wants met without the use of force. It shouldn't be that the kids are running amock over the parents or that the parents are controlling the children. It's a cooperative effort.

As to learning to live within societies rules and laws, kids learn that through living. By being respected and learning to respect others at home, they learn to respect the laws outside the home. Using force to make kids follow arbitrary rules at home does not really teach them to respect societies laws. It's more likely to teach them that they need to not get caught. Does that make sense?

Like lying. Again using my kids compared to others I know who have to live without a lot of rules and parental control and fear of punishments. My kids don't lie. Even the neighborhood adults know that, if they want to know what really happened between the kids, they can ask Ethan. He will tell the truth. Once he did and a friend got mad at him. He said to me, "I'm not going to _lie_." Many of the other kids, otoh, will lie because they are afraid of getting into trouble. If something happens near my home and I intercede, many of the other kids will run away because they are afraid of getting into "trouble". Ethan tries to tell them that they aren't in trouble. I just want to know the truth so that I can help (because I don't assume any of the kids are doing anything on purpose to be mean or bad). But because they live with the fear of punishment at home and school, they assume everyone will treat them like that. They also don't learn how to work things out together because the adults in their lives are always stepping in and taking control, usually in a mean way themselves. So, what do the kids learn from that? To sneak and lie to avoid punishment and that the use of force is the way to get what you want.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ava's surgery is scheduled for Friday morning. I haven't put anything on FB yet because we haven't had a chance to talk to the kids yet. I'm very relieved. Her cardiologist was worried about telling me because it's so soon but I am glad. They are keeping us inpatient until then so they can get all her labs, xrays, etc done and we can meet with the surgeon easily when he's available. She will head down about 6:45 AM Friday morning.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

thanks for letting us know, annie.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Ava's surgery is scheduled for Friday morning. I haven't put anything on FB yet because we haven't had a chance to talk to the kids yet. I'm very relieved. Her cardiologist was worried about telling me because it's so soon but I am glad. They are keeping us inpatient until then so they can get all her labs, xrays, etc done and we can meet with the surgeon easily when he's available. She will head down about 6:45 AM Friday morning.


nak








I'm glad you got answers and a date. I'm sure having concrete info helps. KUP, Ava and your family will be in my thoughts!!

I used to fight N for teeth brushing, then I just gave up. I couldn't keep fighting her. Slowly she started to allow me to do it. I have yet to take her to the dentist tho, so I'm a little worried. I hope she doesn't need a lot of work done.

I can't allow her to just eat whatever. She would never eat, she would have lollipops all day long. She doesn't have a huge appetite soo I try to make her calories count. I like for her to try new things, at least one bite. If she doesnt eat she may just get cereal or a sandwich before bed.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I can't allow her to just eat whatever. She would never eat, she would have lollipops all day long. She doesn't have a huge appetite soo I try to make her calories count. I like for her to try new things, at least one bite. If she doesnt eat she may just get cereal or a sandwich before bed.


First, don't take this as me saying that any of you should do any of this. I'm just trying to explain the concept. Like I said previously, I think it's impossible for one person to do it all the time. It certainly was/is for me.

She may eat lollipops all day long for a day or even a few days (although, I seriously doubt it because she would start to feel hungry). Eventually, though, I can pretty much guarantee that she will want to eat something else. One thing that RUers do is set out what are called monkey platters. They are plates or trays of various different foods for the kids to eat as they wish. You can put whatever you want on them as long as it's a variety, a little something with protein, some veggies, fruits and sweets. The kids will almost always eat the variety. Kids go through phases of what they want to eat. If you always offer a variety, they will come back to things they had given up before and try new things periodically. Along with that, you talk to your kids about how they feel when they eat a lot of this or not enough of that so they can learn to make the connection between how they feel physically and emotionally and what they eat. It's a great way for them to learn how food can affect them without even really having to get into whether or not it's healthy. They'll figure out what's healthy by being able to recognize what makes them feel good and what makes them feel bad.

And leads to the thing I think I keep missing to point out that leads to a the big misconception with RU. I'm not good at explaining it. Even though there aren't a lot of arbitrary rules and rewards and punishments and parental control, the kids are not left alone. The parents are always there, interacting with the kids, available to help or suggest or facilitate, offering new interests and opportunities. There's just no coercion or force involved to make kids do anything. The kids are allowed to make their own choices about all of it.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

i've been meaningto tell you all that i got rid of my swing. D can now sit in the high chair and he seems to like that better. he's at the same height as everyone else and he has a tray for toys to play with. my swing didn't swing on it's own anymore anyway. i noticed that it was gone from my trash before the trash collectors came this morning.







that happens a lot around here. put anything out that looks remotely useable and it gets snatched. i had to cut the straps on the carseats that i threw out after ryan's car crash. anyway, i'm so glad to have that thing out of my house not taking up space anymore.

i took K to the most boring gymnastics class today. i don't think we'll go back. i want to try the other school but all the classes are in the morning. the latest is at 10 am. i didn't even get out of bed this morning until 10:20.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I think I get what you're saying. It seems like a happy way to live -- a very easy going and non-stressful way to raise kids. I just wonder how practical is it vs how good it sounds in theory. But food for thought, that's for sure!

I still use the swing a bit even though I said I wasn't going to. I put Finn in it while I put Nora to bed when Chris is out of town. Once she's settled asleep, I come back out and unwind for a bit if I want, or else I just grab him and go right to bed. Since she's sleeping in my bed again, I don't think I can just put him in the cosleeper, I'm afraid she'll wake him up. Though, I haven't tried yet. I've just been too tired. It's so hard to try something new when the way you're doing things is still working!! I'm afraid to mess up any routine, especially when DH isn't here to bail me out if things go horribly wrong.

He's gone today to NYC and tmw he's taking the car somewhere in NJ. Next week he goes back to Raleigh. Lots of travel! It's good for him, for his job. He's really trying to increase visibility in the company so he can move up to a senior level. That will really help us out if he can get promoted, especially since we are wanting to move so badly. Plus -- it gets him out of my hair. It's hard being a SAHM with a DH who works from home. There is literally NO time apart. I think a little bit of absence makes the heart grow fonder, at least for us. I tend to get annoyed when I hear him coming down the stairs, and since we only have 1 bathroom in our house, I get annoyed when he uses it. LOL. Isn't that dumb? I just sometimes feel strangled by all the togetherness!!

Ok. It's late, I'm off to relax a bit and then off to bed.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, well, I failed big time with a lot of the RU stuff once Kellen got older. It was easy when he was a baby but as things got more crazy with him I just couldn't do it all anymore. One thing that got me was that, if you give the kids a choice about helping, that means they don't have to. If they choose not to help, then I'm left doing everything and I just can't do it. Maybe if Sean were home every day and on board with it all, it would be different, but that's not our life. I really wish I could do it all all the time. I do my best and that's all I can do.

You mentioning your dh traveling reminded me of another thing. I talked to Sean about how to handle his homecoming. I suggested that, when he first got home, maybe he could just take a couple of days off to catch up on sleep and adjust a little and then go back to work at least half days for a week or two. After that he could take his 2 weeks of leave. That would give us time to ease into him being home without having him around 24/7 immediately. He didn't get upset about my suggestion at all. Whew! He said it probably work that way to a certain extent anyway. He'll probably get a weekend off then have to work half days for a week and then take his leave. He said he may not be able to put off his leave because then he may not get it at all. He has something like 120 days of leave accrued so I joked about him taking all of that time. Of course, he can't really do that and keep doing his job. He's not happy about what his assignment will most likely be when he gets home, anyway. But that week of half days will at least give us all a bit of an easier adjustment period.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: glad the agreement was so easy re: sean's homecoming!

one less stress.

Carrie, for our entire togetherness, DH and I have been together. When we first met in person, it wasn't long before I got a job at the same company he worked for, and rather than getting an apartment on my own, I moved in with him and his parents (separate bedrooms) We carpooled to and from work more often than not, and then when he lost his job when I found out I was pregnant with Gabe, he basically became a SAHD. He went to school for massage therapy, but that was at night. So both of us have been in the house together for basically almost 3 years. It is alot of togetherness.

When we worked together, people would ask why we didn't eat lunch together more often. We said, we are together ALL THE TIME. separate time is good! same thing when I'd spend weekends away with my sister or something before the babies came - I need some separate time!

All that to say: I hear you! it's tough being together all the time, and whatever separate time you get is such a blessing.

MW: I had no idea we were doing some of the RU'ing things. And some of it makes sense for older kids (like school age) but not for toddlers. Sometimes I do have to force DS to come inside or leave an area. I can't leave him outside alone, and sometimes I need to go. any tecnique I use that's not technically force is still coercion, because he doesn't WANT to come inside.

I had my roll eyes moment at my MIL yesterday. I was cooking dinner and I let Gabe play next to me in the sink. The water is at a dribble. MIL says to Gabe, keep that stuff in the sink, it's like GOLD. LOL - I mean, really?! Yeah, we pay for water, but it's not like GOLD. If he were wasting pumped breastmilk, I'd have that reaction, but not water. FWIW I don't think she really likes that I let him play with dishes in the sink when it's not officially "dishwashing" time. But it keeps him happy, and near me, and otherwise out of trouble. Not t hat he really gets IN trouble.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> MW: I had no idea we were doing some of the RU'ing things. And some of it makes sense for older kids (like school age) but not for toddlers. Sometimes I do have to force DS to come inside or leave an area. I can't leave him outside alone, and sometimes I need to go. any tecnique I use that's not technically force is still coercion, because he doesn't WANT to come inside.


This is one of those moments I mentioned a while ago when a RUer would tell you that there are some times when you have to force, like with a toddler who wants to stay out outside and you really do have to go and there's no one who will stay outside with him. So, you calmly take him inside and explain that you know he wants to stay outside and you are sorry but you have to do whatever and you don't have another solution atm. Eventually, if you say yes in one way or another as much as possible with the child, he will learn to understand that when you say something has to be done, it's for a good reason and you won't get much protest. That's the idea, anyway.

I found that worked really well with Ethan and Kellen when they were toddlers. When Ethan hit 6.5 or 7 it didn't work so much anymore. he started questioning everything i said. complained any time we had to go somewhere, even if it was somewhere he had said he wanted to go. idk if it's normal 7yo attitude. they are getting bigger and more capable of doing more things on their so are pushing for more autonomy. most people would call it back talking or sassiness but i don't believe he does it to get me, iykwim. i think it's a normal part of development and how it plays out depends on how you deal with it.

another big principle of RU is to treat the child how you want him to behave. if you want him to be generous, be generous with him. if you want him to be helpful, be helpful to him. happily do things for the child when he asks even if you know he can do it himself because that will demonstrate caring and love and generosity. the basic idea is that if you give as much as possible to the child, the child will grow up to see the world and everything in it as abundant rather than scarce and will treat others the same. I'm talking about giving of yourself, your time, your help, your interest, your love, not things like toys and treats.

I really love that idea because I grew up feeling like no one cared enough about me to really take care of me. I didn't get the attention I craved and I think that has hurt me as an adult. I struggle to have as happy a life as I could have if I had had someone who just cared for me. That's one reason I fell in love with Sean. He did just that. He took care of me, which I had never had, and Ryan. I was so burned out from taking care of myself and then Ryan all by myself for so long that it was incredible to have someone do that for me.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I do like the idea, and I think we do that alot - with the generosity and helping; but then, there's a lot Gabe can't do by himself yet!

as far as the push-back - my IRL friends with boys that age have the same problem re: going somewhere they say they want to go and then not wanting to go or be there once they are there. I think it's normal.

I say "I'm sorry" alot, but I don't like it. While I have no issues with apologies in general, I think they are over-used and over-rated in small children. Quite often they really aren't sorry.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I have seen how much more helpful Ethan is toward Kellen when I'm more helpful toward Ethan. When I get stressed and overwhelmed and tell Ethan I can't do it right now, I'm busy, I'm tired, whatever, I hear the exact same words repeated back to Kellen when he asks Ethan for help.

It seems a lot of parents push their kids to do things themselves in a really mean way. I think that's really sad for the children. I think parents do that because they are afraid that, if they are too helpful toward their children, their children will not do anything for themselves. I think that usually only happens when you do things for your children with the message that they can't do it right. If you are made to feel incompetent for long enough, you will give up doing anything yourself because it will never be good enough. I think children are born wanting to learn how to do things themselves and, as long as we don't screw them up too badly, they will do just that. People don't want to be completely dependent on others. Children want to be independent, much to the consternation of their parents.

Apologies are overused, I think. They should only be said if you are really sorry and plan to try to find another way next time. Empty apologies are hurtful. When Ethan complains about having to go with me to take Kellen to a "baby" class, I don't apologize. There's nothing for me to be sorry about that. That's part of life with a family. If I get angry and yell, I apologize because I truly am sorry and did not want to do that and will do everything I can to not lose my temper the next time.

You could leave out the apology and just express empathy. "You want to stay outside and play. You are angry that I'm taking you inside. It can difficult being so young and having to do what others want most of the time. I have to take you inside because I have to get ready to go to work and it's dangerous for you to stay outside by yourself." He may get even more upset at first but that's ok. That means he's feeling more comfortable about expressing himself. As time passes, he'll learn other ways of dealing with those situations.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I totally agree!!

Twice now when I went to pick up Nora from school I was told she hit someone and then when asked, wouldn't say sorry. I said I would talk to her about it, but internally I'm thinking, so what? Maybe she wasn't sorry. And, according to her, both times the boys did something to provoke her first and she didn't want to apologize for hitting.

I've stressed that hitting isn't nice, and instead of telling her she needs to "say sorry", she can talk to her friend and ask them not to do XYZ, or get a teacher. In once instance she said she had asked the little boy to move and said excuse me, but when he didn't, she hula hooped an it hit him. That's not her fault IMO. He should have moved. And telling Nora to apologize for hitting him with the hula hoop is stupid. You know??

Thank gawd for sudafed and benadryl!! This is like the 5th cold Nora's brought home from school. That whole 8 colds in the baby's first year is starting to feel like a low estimate.

Finn seems to be giving up his morning nap already. Isn't it too early for that?? He usually gets up for the day around 7. He'll nap maybe 30 min while nursing around 9-930, but he won't go down for a real nap. Then he'll do his good nap midday, and another 30-40 on the boob around 4-5. Bedtime is 830. Does that sound like enough sleep??


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Apologies are overused, I think. They should only be said if you are really sorry and plan to try to find another way next time. Empty apologies are hurtful. When Ethan complains about having to go with me to take Kellen to a "baby" class, I don't apologize. There's nothing for me to be sorry about that. That's part of life with a family. If I get angry and yell, I apologize because I truly am sorry and did not want to do that and will do everything I can to not lose my temper the next time.
> You could leave out the apology and just express empathy. "You want to stay outside and play. You are angry that I'm taking you inside. It can difficult being so young and having to do what others want most of the time. I have to take you inside because I have to get ready to go to work and it's dangerous for you to stay outside by yourself." He may get even more upset at first but that's ok. That means he's feeling more comfortable about expressing himself. As time passes, he'll learn other ways of dealing with those situations.


DH and I used to get into bigger fights because we would have a fight, try to make up, agree to disagree, whatever, and he would expect me to apologize. I would explain that I couldn't apologize, because I still stood by whatever it was I said. I didn't say it out of anger, I said it because it's how I felt. He would get angry and say that if it hurt him, I should apologize for it. I always said I was sorry that it hurt him or hurt his feelings, but that I couldn't apologize for what I said (unless it was out of anger, heat of the moment, etc, but that doesn't happen that often). He doesn't get it. He thinks you should apologize if you hurt someone, and that not apologizing just means you're stubborn and can't compromise. It's nice to see someone who -gets- it!

Oh, and great news about the agreement on Sean's homecoming schedule!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> In once instance she said she had asked the little boy to move and said excuse me, but when he didn't, she hula hooped an it hit him. That's not her fault IMO. He should have moved. And telling Nora to apologize for hitting him with the hula hoop is stupid. You know??


Why should the boy have moved? Just because she asked him to? Maybe he was busy doing something where he was or he just liked the spot. He shouldn't have to give it up just because she asked. A request is just that, a request. The person being requested does not have to acquiesce.

I think in that instance, Nora needs to understand that she did the wrong thing. Hitting is only acceptable when it's the only way to defend oneself. I don't think she should be forced to apologize but maybe you could apologize to her teacher and the boy for her.

That looks like enough sleep to me. 11 1/2 hours total not including the midday nap. Assuming that's about 2 hours, that's over 13 hours of sleep a day. It sounds similar to what Dylan is doing except that he takes his 2 short naps in the evening.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I don't know -as I obv wasn't there - but maybe he should have moved out of the way of the hula hoop?

Carrie - as far as sleep goes, he's likely getting enough. and this may just be a phase. as he gets mobile and wears himself out more, he may go back to taking more naps.

JJ: what you were saying before re: sleep is very true for DS - he starts acting out and going nuts when he's super tired. In which case I have a really hard time punsishing/disciplining the behaviour, because I know he's only doing it because he's tired, and that really can't be helped. Depending on the time of day we either encourage him to nap, or if it's late enough, he goes to bed. - For us, nap encouragement is setting somewhere - like the couch or laying on the floor - with one of his fuzzy blankets and just sort of keeping still and usually he will go to sleep within 10 minutes or so. I used to do more of a strict naptime, but I gave up. I don't know if it's because I don't have it in me to be like that, or if I'm just too lazy :hehe:

That's why the parents I know that DO those strict schedules and are like: we need to be home by x-o'clock because DC needs to be in bed yadayada . . drive me crazy. I think it's good for kids to be flexible and go with the flow, and as parents we need that ability too. The only thing I try to manage is if I think we are going to be out late, to bring an overnight diaper with us to put on Gabe. I could care less if he stays up late, falls asleep in the car, and sleeps in his clothes. (FWIW that happens about once a week, if not more) There are some nights we do this intentionally, because it's easier to transfer him from the car to bed asleep than sit with him as he goes to sleep.

Yeah, we had to work with Gabe and hitting. he doesn't do it much anymore. Mostly just modeling and repeating Gentle to him.

Now though, he pushes, because another kid is in his space or something to that effect. On one hand, I don't want him to push. But using words like "go away" aren't much nicer really. And I don't think he needs to let other people be in his space if he doesn't want to.

Ideas?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh I don't mean she wasn't at fault at all! I reread my post and it sounded horrible. No, when he didn't move, SHE could have moved, but instead she (probably angrily) bumped into him with the hula hoop. Oh, I did talk to her about that, and told her that just b/c someone is in her way doesn't mean they HAVE to move when you ask. That doesn't mean you can hit them or push them!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Now though, he pushes, because another kid is in his space or something to that effect. On one hand, I don't want him to push. But using words like "go away" aren't much nicer really. And I don't think he needs to let other people be in his space if he doesn't want to.
> 
> Ideas?


Pushing and "go away" and "MOVE" are what we deal with too. I just keep stressing, "excuse me" and what not. They'll get it eventually, right?

Thanks for the feedback on sleep. It helps to hear.

I nursed Finn at like 1130-1145, and he was sleepy but not quite asleep yet. Nora needed help in the bathroom, so I put him down in the cosleeper and he fussed and opened his eyes and started getting upset. I shhh'ed and patted for only a min, and said to myself I'll pick him back up when I'm done wiping Nora. I got her straightened out, peeked back in -- he was asleep! Then a few min later, I hear him talking. Oh well, I said, I'll go get him if he fusses. I heard him talking a little more... then silence. That was over an hour and a half ago! I actually put a baby down sleepy but awake and he WENT TO SLEEP on his own!! I thought that was a myth.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Putting him down sleepy but not asleep: That worked with Gabe until he was mobile enough to pull himself to standing in the crib. then, not so much.

I guess the thing with "excuse me" is that it has so many uses. We say it when we fart, burp, etc. Maybe I can get him to say: Move, please? (though he doesn't yet have "move" in his vocabulary.

And generally he isn't pushing hard - it's boys his own age or older, and he isn't pushing them down, does that make sense? so he really isn't causing any hurt. Most of the boys just look surprised at being pushed by him. (I still don't think it's ok that he does it, and am tempted to let them work it out. depends on the other moms/kids involved)


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I don't know -as I obv wasn't there - but maybe he should have moved out of the way of the hula hoop?


I misread that. I thought it said she hula-hooped him, wacked him with the hula hoop on purpose.









If it was an accident, I think it warrants an apology. But, again, I wouldn't force her to do it. I would make the apology for her. Maybe he should have moved out of the way of hula hoop if he didn't want to get hit but maybe she could have moved instead. I really think that if she wanted to do that, she needed to find enough space away from others to do it safely. If he was in the hula hoop space doing something else and wouldn't move, then she needs to go to a teacher for help. But just doing what she wanted regardless, which led to someone getting hurt, is not ok.

I agree that Gabe shouldn't have to allow others into his personal space if he doesn't want to. Is he 2 yet? He doesn't have a very large vocabulary, I'm assuming. At his age, "go away" might be fine to say while you give him other words he can learn to say instead. "Move over," "I don't want to play," etc. You can tell the other child want Gabe wants in a gentler way. Or, he can always move away.

One thing I try to stress to my kids is that, if they have a problem, it's their problem, not someone else's. Like JJ saying that it's not her responsibility if her dh gets hurt by her expressing her thoughts or feelings. That's his issue, not hers, and she shouldn't have to apologize for that.

For example, if Ethan is bothered by Kellen and tells him to get out of the room, I tell Ethan this is a family space. If he wants to be alone, he can go in another room. NAK at the same time, i talk to kellen about boundaries and personal space and respecting others. it's a fine line, though, sometimes, trying to find what is fair. if ethan is bothered because kellen is being too loud and rambunctious indoors, i tell kellen he can go outside if he wants to behave that way. when he's inside, he needs to do more quiet things.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I really think that if she wanted to do that, she needed to find enough space away from others to do it safely. If he was in the hula hoop space doing something else and wouldn't move, then she needs to go to a teacher for help. But just doing what she wanted regardless, which led to someone getting hurt, is not ok.


Agreed!

She needs to work on that impulse control and how to act around others. She's so new to being around other kids, it's going to take time.

If I'm there, I can apologize for her behavior. But I find out about these things when I pick her up and the situation is over, and I don't even know whose child was hit! I need to talk to the teacher about that. I don't want her being a bully.

She one of 3 or so girls in a class full of boys. The teachers tell me that she's modeling what she sees. I don't buy that. I don't think just b/c she's around boys all the time she should be "expected" to hit or be physical. She's a kid. Kids are physical, and can be aggressive b/c they can't verbalize their frustrations. Hell, I'm an adult and I can't always verbalize my frustrations. I get mad and sometimes throw or clap my hands loud when I feel like hitting. It's hard for me to do, so it's got to be hard for littles to do.

I'm not ready for Finn to be mobile. I can't believe how fast his babyhood is flying by.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I love smelling Dylan's breath. Am I weird?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Maybe I can get him to say: Move, please?


The possible problem with that is that it's a request so the other child doesn't have to move (not that the other child actually ever _has_ to move). That's why I say, don't make it a request unless you are really giving the other person the option of refusing. I think there are two things you can do. You explain to the other child that Gabe needs more space and/or have Gabe move away. Gabe will learn from your example and eventually have more words and actions to use on his own.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

we keep cross-posting.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Agreed!
> 
> She needs to work on that impulse control and how to act around others. She's so new to being around other kids, it's going to take time.


she's so young, too. they all are. they need the rest of us to model the behavior we want.

maybe you could find out who the child was and apologize to him the next time you drop Nora off. You could say something like, "I'm sorry you got hit by the hula hoop Nora was playing with yesterday. (that way not placing blame on anyone.) Are you ok?" that focuses on how the child feels in the present, rather than what happened in the past.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I love smelling Dylan's breath. Am I weird?
> The possible problem with that is that it's a request so the other child doesn't have to move (not that the other child actually ever _has_ to move). That's why I say, don't make it a request unless you are really giving the other person the option of refusing. I think there are two things you can do. You explain to the other child that Gabe needs more space and/or have Gabe move away. Gabe will learn from your example and eventually have more words and actions to use on his own.


Not weird. I love Finn's breath. It smells like warm sugar and milk. So heavenly.

With most adults when you ask them nicely they will move, they will give up their seat, they will do the polite thing. I don't think I've ever asked an adult to excuse me or to do something like that and had them say, "No, I don't have to." Most of the time, even if I'm comfortable in my seat at home, if Nora asks nicely, I'll get up and move and thank her for being polite. I stress asking nicely. I think having an expectation that the person will cooperate with you if you are polite is just fine.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> we keep cross-posting.
> she's so young, too. they all are. they need the rest of us to model the behavior we want.
> maybe you could find out who the child was and apologize to him the next time you drop Nora off. You could say something like, "I'm sorry you got hit by the hula hoop Nora was playing with yesterday. (that way not placing blame on anyone.) Are you ok?" that focuses on how the child feels in the present, rather than what happened in the past.


That's not a bad idea.

I'm being so lazy today. DD has been doing puzzles and playing with her toys, and I've been doing NOTHING. I did some shopping on amazon and now I'm just on fb. I feel like crud!! Wah to colds. They blow.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I hate colds. I am so rarely sick and when I get sick, it just sucks.

When Gabe asks us something, please, he has the expectation of getting what he wants. (because he is so darn cute when asking!)Granted, he does sometimes get told no. (mostly when he wants to play with the iPhone and I am using it.) I have asked him something please, and he sometimetimes cooperates, and sometimes says no.

I think whenever you are dealing with things, there is always the possiblity the other person could say no, even if it's a demand. People are more likely to cooperate if you ask nicely, which is not a bad thing to learn.

I love the smell of Norah's breath and the top of her head. if that makes me weird, so be it 

ok. I need to work  ugh.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> With most adults when you ask them nicely they will move, they will give up their seat, they will do the polite thing. I don't think I've ever asked an adult to excuse me or to do something like that and had them say, "No, I don't have to."...I stress asking nicely. I think having an expectation that the person will cooperate with you if you are polite is just fine.


well, yeah, because most adults have been conditioned to respond that way. young children have not, yet, so they are more likely not to comply if asked.

i'm not saying to not show our children how to be nice and polite. I think you just need to prepare Nora for the possibility that the other child may not comply with her request.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

i thought of something else. kids are also not socially savvy enough yet to fully understand when their requests are reasonable and not. they only know what they want and think they should get it. so, it's a good learning experience for her to realize that not everyone is going to go along with what she wants all the time.


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> One thing I try to stress to my kids is that, if they have a problem, it's their problem, not someone else's. Like JJ saying that it's not her responsibility if her dh gets hurt by her expressing her thoughts or feelings. That's his issue, not hers, and she shouldn't have to apologize for that.


Agreed! DH does the same thing and it's very, um, what's the word, disempowering! I no longer let him take my power away. When I feel a tinge of guilt, I now know to take a good look at my words and actions and decide for myself where I need to apologize for disempowering him.

Carrie- I so understand! DH woeks mostly nights and so we are around each other a lot during the day and mannnnn it's challenging sometimes! Those idiosyncrasies in your faceall day long....can really be a romance killer!

MW do you get the daily emails from this site? They'd be right up your (parenting) alley! You definitely gave me some food for thought on this one:

Quote:


> I think parents do that because they are afraid that, if they are too helpful toward their children, their children will not do anything for themselves. I think that usually only happens when you do things for your children with the message that they can't do it right. If you are made to feel incompetent for long enough, you will give up doing anything yourself because it will never be good enough.


I was really hard on my older two before I learned that pushing them to do things themselves really hurt their confidence. Their confidence still hasn't recovered...I wish I knew then what I know now







My son is so helpless now. He asks a million times for repeated instructions so he doesn't mess up......it totally backfired on me!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yes, Kinder, I've been getting that email for years. So long, now, that I know them all and have been thinking about unsubscribing. I really like them but some are so abstract that I don't quite understand, like saying no with yes energy. How exactly do you do that?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: No with Yes energy . . . is that like when your child asks for a treat, you say yes, after dinner? - in effect you are saying "no" now but your child hears "yes"?

Otherwise I have no idea.

I think DD slept from 12 to 6:30 without nursing. when I woke up, my boob was out like I had maybe nursed her, but it's far too full on that side to have actually done so. Sometimes she fusses a second and goes back to sleep and won't take a boob. at 6:30 I brought her downstairs with me while I start working, she sleeps in the rocker. She really hasn't woken up. *hooray*

OTOH; Gabe woke up at 6:45. BOOOOO.

We are going the Festival of Spiritual Healing and Awareness this weekend. it's fun and a little trippy, but hey. they have psycics, energy workers, vendors with stones and crystals . . .We enjoy going. Funny thing - the first time we went, Gabe was maybe 6 months old and one lady (and her mom) asks me, where's his little sister. She said that there was a little girl eager to join our family, and she'd arrive when Gabe was close to 2. Right on  could be a self fulfilling prophecy, but still, interesting.

I do very much believe in those: self fulfilling prophecies. Like if you put the intention out there, or some would say the energy, then that stuff happens. Like if you wake up thinking : this is going to be BAD day, ugh. It usually is. OTOH, if you go into something with confidence and positive energy, you can do it. Granted, sometimes it surprises you, but I feel it's still better to keep up with the positive energy. That carries over into parenting alot.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I agree with you on the positive thinking and intentions. I'm not sure it's actually my positive energy affecting anything like some people believe. I think it's more likely that I'm able to see more positive than negative when I keep that frame of mind.

Saying no with yes energy is something like, say your child asks for a brand new bike. There's no way you can afford to buy the bike. You tell your child you can't get him the bike but you're sure he will get everything he needs from life. If he really wants something, some day he will have it. Maybe you talk about what's so great about the bike and how much fun it would be to have it.

I guess I sort of do that by putting anything the boys say they want on their lists. They don't fuss so much about not getting right away when I do that. They know we aren't getting it now but it's on the list so they might get it at some later time. It also helps remind them of things they want that they could spend their allowance on rather than just buying the first random thing that catches the eye at the store.

In case anyone doesn't know, Ava has been in surgery since around 8:30 this morning. The surgery is expected to take anywhere from 4-7 hours depending on how things go. That is such a long time.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

That is a long time! keeping her in thoughts and prayers today.

I don't agree with some of the energy people out there that seem to have the opinion that if you put something out there (as in, in the universe) it's bound to happen if you do it enough - esp. positive thinking. Because it doesn't always work or come true, etc. but hey, whatever works for some people!

I need a nap. or more caffeine. The caffeine is more likely!


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I don't agree with some of the energy people out there that seem to have the opinion that if you put something out there (as in, in the universe) it's bound to happen if you do it enough - esp. positive thinking. Because it doesn't always work or come true, etc. but hey, whatever works for some people!


Agreed! DH's sister is like that. When he was off work, and applying for jobs in his field and not hearing anything back again and again, she just kept telling him that he needed to open himself up to the possibilities of the world, and something would happen. That's fine if she believes that, but it's really not helpful at all, especially when you're feeling like you're doing everything you can and it's still not good enough. Ironically, she suffers from a medical condition that has meant she can't have any more children (she wanted to), and cannot work. It took so much to collectively bite our tongues and ask her why she hadn't healed herself yet, if everything was as easy as just opening herself up to the possibility of being healed.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Glad I made sense! after I re-read what I wrote, I wasn't sure.

How are you and Tenley doing?

I need motivation . . .working on it. (motivation to work, LOL)


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> he needed to open himself up to the possibilities of the world, and something would happen.


I actually do believe in this, but maybe not in the way your SIL said it or how you all took it. If you want things to happen in your life, you have to open yourself up to the possibility of things happening and then do what you can to make them happen. Applying for and following up on jobs would be one way of doing that. Of course, it doesn't make any sense to sit around and do nothing and expect something to happen just because you think it.


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

I believe that too....it's in a sense like a "prayer". I think that's how prayers work. If you hold a positive thought long enough, it's bound to come around. If it doesn't, chances are other doors have opened for you. JJ- in your SIL's case, she probably could be healed. There are healing miracles around the world every day. It would probably take some serious "praying" or "manifesting" though. I think there is a difference though between looking for a new job and trying to create a new life with a body that is made not to. One situation you are capable of tremendous possibilities if you are open to them and in another, you're hands are tied. Big difference.

Thinking of and praying for Ava's quick recovery









I'm feeling a bit better today. Took some homeopathy and it's helping! I'm getting the hang of the baby wrap and E's becoming ever-so-slightly predictable as far as naps go during the day. I got a few things done around the house today and feel better for it! Bad news- we don't like our mother's helper! She definitely gets things done around the house but 3 out of 4 kids have come to complain about her being mean, strict and what-have-you. Apparently, the kids were a bit hyper and goofy one day (all in good fun though) and she told them to stop being "bad". WTF! She's just not very happy. I feel duped because at the interview she was very bubbly and positive and it's clearly not her normal disposition. She also talks to me about her boyfriend all.the.time and I don't care....I hardly have time to myself and when I do, I want to eat in peace in my kitchen, not hear about her boyfriend drama. She also texts all day long. DH finally told her last night to keep the phone in her purse and take breaks to use it. One of our DDs said "..... always uses her phone". I'm bummed that we have to look for someone else. How do you fire a F/T mother's helper/nanny without totally insulting her?? Any advice here? We hired her until March 1st (verbal contract) with a possible part-time position come March 1st. Clearly, we're not going to give her the part-time position. DH wants her to stop working for us mid-February. He said one month's notice is plenty but it's going to be super awkward to give her notice and have her continue to work for us until that day, you know. What to do?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

kinder, you made me think of something else wrt positive thinking and manifesting. if you go into a job interview with the thought in your head that you won't get hired, the interviewer can pick up on that through body language and other subconscious signals. but if you go into an interview positive and confident and knowing you are qualified for the job, the interviewer would pick up on that and be more likely to hire him.

wrt to the mother's helper, i'd give 2 weeks notice and be done with it. you can always give her the option of quitting sooner if it's awkward. it's business relationship and a job so no need to worry about offending her if you aren't happy with how she's doing her job. you could try talking to her about the things you have a problem with and see if she's open to changing.

that's one reason i haven't sought a mother's helper through the early childhood development program at the community college. i'm pretty sure that most wouldn't get my way of parenting and would be very much about rewards and punishment and good and bad. that's the mainstream. i don't want to deal with someone telling my kids they are bad for being kids.


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> i'm pretty sure that most wouldn't get my way of parenting and would be very much about rewards and punishment and good and bad. that's the mainstream. i don't want to deal with someone telling my kids they are bad for being kids.


Thanks for the advice! I hear you on this part! This is the first sitter though that we have not liked in recent years  All of our previous sitters really followed our parenting style and really loved our kids--greeting them with hugs & big smiles...I'm grateful we've gotten this far without this being an issue. Oh well....I'm going to remain grateful for her help around the house when I really needed it most but know that the right person will come to us and be a good fit for our family for the long haul!


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> kinder, you made me think of something else wrt positive thinking and manifesting. if you go into a job interview with the thought in your head that you won't get hired, the interviewer can pick up on that through body language and other subconscious signals. but if you go into an interview positive and confident and knowing you are qualified for the job, the interviewer would pick up on that and be more likely to hire him.


very true!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kindermama*
> 
> This is the first sitter though that we have not liked in recent years  All of our previous sitters really followed our parenting style and really loved our kids--greeting them with hugs & big smiles..


I think there's a huge difference between a sitter and a mother's helper or nanny. A sitter is someone hired to just hang with the kids for a few hours every so often so parents can go out or run errands and whatnot. A mother's helper or a nanny, especially, is hired to care for and teach the kids. Two very different mindsets. I've never had trouble with a teenager that I've hired as a sitter but I don't think I'd want someone studying early childhood development coming in my home with all of his or her academic ideas of how children should be.


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I think there's a huge difference between a sitter and a mother's helper or nanny. A sitter is someone hired to just hang with the kids for a few hours every so often so parents can go out or run errands and whatnot. A mother's helper or a nanny, especially, is hired to care for and teach the kids. Two very different mindsets. I've never had trouble with a teenager that I've hired as a sitter but I don't think I'd want someone studying early childhood development coming in my home with all of his or her academic ideas of how children should be.


good point! Big difference between someone coming here and there and someone coming to help on a regular basis (part-time or full-time). They essentially become part of the family. I have to keep that in mind when we start interviewing again...


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh ladies, what a whirlwind it's been the past couple of days! I've been reading along, it's been my sanity break through these crazy days. DD's surgery went well. It was a long day yesterday, especially since I didn't sleep much the night before. But she made it through well and is well on the way to recovery.

You guys, I almost burned my house down on Thursday! I went home for a few hours to do some laundry, take a shower and get the rest of the things that I wanted to have with me at the hospital. I was rotating through a bunch of chores and I put a pot of water on to boil to sterilize some new pacifiers for DD. I put the pacis in the water and then went to get my clothes out of the dryer. I folded my clothes, packed them and loaded up the car. I drove to the hospital, parked, walked up to DD's room, gave her a quick bath and as I was finishing up, DH said something about both of her pacis needing to be washed because they hit the floor. All of a sudden, I remembered the pacis boiling on the stove. I FREAKED out and screamed at DH that he had to go home right this minute because I left pacis on the stove. He ran down 7 flights of stairs, rushed home and our house was filled with smoke. I have NO idea how my house didn't explode. The oxygen tanks were less than 10 feet from the stove. The pacifiers were incinerated. There was ash all over the kitchen, dining room and some of the living room. Our house smells TERRIBLE. My mom is working on getting the smoke smell out of the house this week. It was so crazy. I have never done anything like that before. My brain was just a wreck!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ I am so amazed at what Ava has been through. The things surgeons can do is just incredible. I'm glad she is doing well. I hope you all are home soon.

Scary about the house. Wow! Thank goodness nothing worse happened.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

As soon as I posted about Dylan being on a pretty regular schedule, he has decided to change it all up. He sleeps until 10, doesn't take his first nap until 1 pm. Then he wants to take another nap even later at night and stay up until midnight or later. Last night he fell asleep around 8 and woke up around 9:30. Thankfully, he didn't get too fussy that I kept him in bed but he also didn't go right back to sleep. He squirms and kicks and flails his arms and even talks sometimes. He finally fell asleep around 11:30 or so, not too bad compared to other nights.

I was up until after 3 am. I think I fell asleep shortly after he did the first time but woke up when one of the cats got on the bed. They are not supposed to be in the bedroom at night because I shut the door. I pushed him off the bed and started to go back to sleep until I smelled something funny and felt something wet. At first I thought Ethan had peed in the bed although he has never done that. The smell was very distinct, though. I'm sure you all know where I'm going with this now. That damn cat climbed up on my bed while we were all sleeping in and peed and pooped on it! I was so furious. I couldn't get back to sleep after cleaning everything up. I had to take a children's benadryl just to fall asleep because I was so worked up about all of it.

And, of course, Dylan slept pretty well during that time so I could have actually gotten some good sleep if it weren't for that effin cat! It seems I can't win. Something is always going to keep me from sleeping.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Annie - OMG about the house!! I'm glad everyone and everything is ok. Including Ava. What a rockstar she is through these surgeries. As always, still thinking of you all as she recovers.

MW - OMG about the cat! I hear you -- if the kids are sleeping the cats start up, the same in my house too. I didn't mention this but one night after DH went to bed, I was still nursing Finn. Finally he's asleep, I go into the bedroom set him down in the cosleeper, go to climb in bed (where DH was already sleeping) and carefully pulled up the covers. I got hit with something. I knew that smell! The cat had barfed on the comforter and there was puke all over my side!! I could have #1 killed the cat but also #2 killed DH! He didn't even notice?!? WTF??

Sorry to hear about sleep troubles. We all have good nights and bad nights it seems.


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

OMG Annie! Holy S....I'm so glad there was a happy ending to that! I do stuff like that pretty often....it's called Mommy Brain! In your case, I'm sure it's Mommy Brain plus Mommy anxiety for Ave. I'm glad she is doing well! Phew! You poor thing--I hope there is a break for you in sight!

MW- yeah, the cat thing---we found out we get more sleep if kitty sleeps in the first floor bathroom. Of course the bastard has learned to open the door even when it's locked (it's just a simple lock) so now we have to close all the doors on the first floor or else he walks the halls around 4am meowing!

AFM- So I started eating dairy again a few days ago and E is now spitting up and woke with a rash on his face. Damn it! I love cheese! The kinesiologist said dairy was okay for him in the muscle testing---I think not! How am I going to live without cheese for 18 months...arhhhhh


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Cheese is a hard one for me, too. I've actually been able to stop eating just cheese or cheese and crackers or grilled cheese sandwiches. I don't get cheese on other foods when it's an option like subs and burgers. I do still eat things with cheese in or on them, though, like pizza.

Which reminds me. I've been meaning to ask someone. If I can't find coconut milk in the carton can I drink it from the cans? I actually don't drink it but I've been using in my coffee instead of half and half or flavored creamers and for cereal on the rare occasions that I have cereal. Is the stuff in the can ok for that?

Had Ethan's birthday party today. It was at a bowling alley. The kids had a lot of fun, I think. It was so crowded and noisy that I couldn't tell what was going on. I'm exhausted just from sitting there in that din. I need a few days to recover now.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Sounds like the party was a success MW! Birthday parties always wear me out too. All those high pitched little voices...ugh! Hard day here in the PICU. DD has a cpap mask on now and a NG tube. She put up quite a fight for both of those. She is more aware today and wanting me to pick her up but I can't yet. Sigh. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

It must be so hard for the both of you to not be able to pick her up.

Not just all those kids running around but the place was packed. It looked like every lane was being used. Who knew bowling was so popular? We're used to going in the middle of a week day when hardly anyone is there.

Something happened at the bowling alley that I feel just awful about. I put Dylan in the wrap. He was so squirmy and fussy. He's been throwing himself backward lately when he's not happy but I have a hard time figuring out what he wants. I was trying to get him and myself situated so that he could nurse and he threw himself backward and hit his head hard on the table.







I felt like a big mommy failure.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

It is very hard especially since I always respond to her needs pretty quickly. To not be able to scoop her up is torture. Her diaphragm is slightly paralized right now so they had to put a cpap mask on her. She panics every time she wakes up so I have to get on a chair so that I can get close to her face and calm her down. That's so crazy about D throwing himself back. DD has started doing that too. The other day her surgeon was in talking to us and I had her sitting on the bed. She threw herself back and I didn't catch her fast enough. She bonked her head on her sound machine. Oops! Don't beat yourself up mama. It happens.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

That's a normal thing to happen after that surgery, right? They are expecting things to be back to normal for her soon.

I guess the throwing back is normal. Working on that core.







I felt like it was a big wrap fail. Anyone watching might think the wrap is dangerous after seeing that. I hope not.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Which reminds me. I've been meaning to ask someone. If I can't find coconut milk in the carton can I drink it from the cans? I actually don't drink it but I've been using in my coffee instead of half and half or flavored creamers and for cereal on the rare occasions that I have cereal. Is the stuff in the can ok for that?


Yup - just make sure you shake the can. The fat is going to separate, and coconut water isn't very creamy or good for coffee. It's pretty high in fat but it's the good for you kind.

If you ever want to make whipped cream, open a can w/o shaking it first and set it in the fridge overnight. In the morning, scrape off the solid stuff and beat it with a mixer. It'll fluff up just like whipped cream.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> Hard day here in the PICU. DD has a cpap mask on now and a NG tube. She put up quite a fight for both of those. She is more aware today and wanting me to pick her up but I can' t yet. Sigh. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.


Oh, I hope so. I can't imagine, Lauri.









Finn has started arching himself back and bucking out of the bumbo, but he can't sit yet on his own. So, it's frustrating. He doesn't want to recline in his bouncy seat anymore. The only place we can set him really is the jumper -- but he tires of that after a few min anyway. He keeps us busy these days for sure!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Yup - just make sure you shake the can. The fat is going to separate, and coconut water isn't very creamy or good for coffee. It's pretty high in fat but it's the good for you kind.
> 
> If you ever want to make whipped cream, open a can w/o shaking it first and set it in the fridge overnight. In the morning, scrape off the solid stuff and beat it with a mixer. It'll fluff up just like whipped cream.


thanks. i bought it to make ice cream but haven't done it yet. ethan got one of those ice cream ball shakers for christmas. the first time we used it, we couldn't get it opened when we were done. i've since found the special tool it came with just for that purpose.

is there a diff between coconut milk and coconut water in a can? i've seen coconut milk and coconut cream in cans but coconut water is in a bottle or carton like soda or cow's milk. sometimes the commissary has coconut milk coffee creamer and in a carton like the cow's milk. they sell out fast because there's more demand than they've realized yet. it's a new product there.

nak

dylan does that in his bumbo, too. i just saw the trays you can attach to them the other day. there were a couple at the 2nd hand store. do you think they are useful? i can't decide because there's a tray on the high chair but he manages to drop everything on the floor anyway. i'm thinking by the time he can hold onto things he won't need the bumbo anymore.

oh, he sat in a store cart today for the first time today! that should make grocery shopping easier.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Coconut water is the stuff you'll find in the bottom of a can of coconut cream or milk. you will find it in the beverage section already separated because it's a great electrolyte replacement and often is added with another flavor juice, like pineapple or something.

The coconut creamer often had flavor added to it, like french vanilla, and must have some kind of stabilizer, bc it doesn't separate.

I mostly use the stuff in cans for cooking curry.

Annie(Lauri) - I am so glad you all are ok and you remembered before anything worse happened!

re: wrapping - The same thing happened to me, with Norah at home. bummer.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

i don't get the flavored coconut creamer. so, as long as i shake up the can of milk, it will have both cream and water in it?

my dh jokingly accused me of trying to kill him when i first started cooking with coconut oil because of the fat content. now that's almost exclusively what he uses for his paleo diet. love that he thinks it's such a great thing after reading about it himself but wouldn't take my word for it.







i think that's one of the problems with our relationship. a marriage book i read made a point of saying that men need to take their wives opinions into account. a lot of times they are dismissive. i think sean does that without realizing it. he lets me talk but does his own thing anyway. he's reading that book now so i hope he makes note of that.

we had a good night last night. D was up late but not too late and slept well. He still woke every few hours to nurse but didn't squirm and fuss too much. I actually woke up before everyone else and was able to enjoy a cup of coffee before the chaos began.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Yay for good sleep!

Yes - as long as you shake it, it'll have both in it and be creamy. Some coconut waters come in fancy bottles and flavors -- they are great for post workout (or as labor drinks). I love Zico waters, I had a whole bunch for Finn's labor but never needed them. Coconut milk in a can is good for thai cooking, baking, etc (and for coffee, lol). Cream of Coconut is thick and sugary and is best used for pina coladas! Yum!!

We have the tray for the bumbo, it's very tight and I can't clip it on all the way. He still is able to buck out, almost. And he still drops his toys, lol.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> We have the tray for the bumbo, it's very tight and I can't clip it on all the way. He still is able to buck out, almost. And he still drops his toys, lol.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Dylan doesn't like his Bumbo so much anymore. Since he's been able to sit in his bath seat we haven't used it much at all because he tries to buck out of it. He still likes his reclining rocker seat, though.

So, here I am up with him again. He took his late afternoon nap at 8:30 and woke up around 10. Who knows how late we'll be up now.

I think Ethan's basketball schedule is throwing Dylan's nap schedule off. I almost always have to get him up from a nap to take Ethan to either practice or a game. It's 3 nights a week from about 5-7. Dylan wakes up fully when I take him to the car even if he's only been asleep for a half hour and then stays up until late, when he crashes again. He doesn't get that good 2 hours of undisturbed sleep in the afternoon. I think that's enough to totally throw things off. If I didn't have to take him to that, I think he'd sleep from 4-6 or so and then go to bed at night at a reasonable time.

I've decided I need another baby monitor. I bought the one I have 2nd hand and it's too loud and staticy. I can't stand it anymore. I don't need a video monitor and probably don't even need one with 2 receivers. I had just 1 receiver with the one I had for Kellen but thought I needed two because we stayed upstairs most of the time. The boys played with that like it was a walky talky and I have no idea where it is. I'm sure it's buried somewhere but I can't find it. Now I stay downstairs all the time so the one is just fine. I don't want to spend a lot of money but I think I want to get something new this time just to make sure it's in good shape. Do you all have any suggestions?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Only that I LOVE our video monitor (I know you said you don't need video) but it's for Gabe, not Norah, that it'sneeded. Look up reviews on Amazon and Target - that is how I pick all my baby gear. I don't know how I'd do without it!

I have decided: I am definitely a wrap girl. I love, love, love it. I put a beautiful girly wrap on layaway too. But I promised DH I will not go crazy with it, and I will keep a SSC in the stash for him.

One of DH's cousin's little boy is a month younger than Norah and she was saying how she doesn't get anything done when he decides not to nap. I told her that that is the beauty of baby carriers. They are awesome!

In other news: DH and I have decided that I won't get the Mirena; he researched it too, and doesn't like that it seems 50/50 whether we would like it (I say we, because strings are an issue for guys sometimes). So we will keep on with the condoms until I have a cycle to track. On one hand - I really hope AF stays far, far, away. OTOH, it would be nice to know we could skip the condom sometimes.

Norah is 13 lbs 2 oz! she has been gaining a steady 5 oz per week for the last several weeks, I love keeping track of that.

How are all our other littles? JJ's Tenley, Everest (is that Kindermama? I forget), . . .. dude my mind went blank Oh well.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I like our Graco monitor. It's nothing too fancy, but it is quiet.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off&pwst=1&q=graco+monitor&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&biw=1253&bih=702&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=916762095037813049&sa=X&ei=EK4eT5GzKane0QGOsZEG&ved=0CHsQ8wIwBw

Ok - dilemma. I'm about to order some dipes for Finn b/c 9 diapers is such a pita. I want to get him a FB Perfect Size but the place I'm ordering from only has Large size available, which is supposed to fit 25-45 lbs, 12 months and up. It specifically says it will only fit for that range. So. Do I risk buying it and it being big for a few months, or should I just get the OS? I wanted a trimmer fit than an OS, all my dipes are OS and they can be so bulky when stuffed. WWYD? Finn is 21 lbs now and wearing 9-12 mo clothes, so I think I can get the L safely...oooh, decisions. It's on sale so I wanted to nab it now.

Kat - GTH about the mirena! I had such a uneasy time with it myself. Here's to condoms, I suppose! That's what we're using right now too. And I'm with you -- I almost wish I had some sort of sign to lmk if it was necessary, and for that I look fwd to tracking my cycle.

I worry thought that full out charting will make me crave more babies.

I feel "complete" with our family but I wonder if being tired is more the reason that an actual feeling of done-ness. I think sometimes too that if we were in a more comfortable house, settled in where we were going to permanently reside, if I would feel as done. I'm not sure. I'm also not completely sold on the idea that just b/c we don't feel done means we MUST have more kids, regardless.

Either way, that's where we are.

Chris leaves again for NC today for the rest of the week. Yesterday I got very little done around the house, I just wasn't feeling it. I'm hoping I can make today a bit more productive.

JJ - You still didn't get your wetbag??


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I have some FB one size, and to me, the OS runs a bit small. I don't know if that will also hold true for the perfect size, but I would go ahead and get the L ones. Now, in swaddlebees/blueberry, DS is at least 25 lbs and should be in a large, but still kinda fits in a M. But he's lean waisted - not fat at ALL - but does have wide, flat hips, and solid thighs.

At least DH has found condoms he likes. It's obv not as good as being without, but hey.

Re: done-ness. I am definitely NOT done. I know I want one more (well, really, I could keep on having babies, if I were a SAHM) I just know I really don't want another right this minute. I want to nurse DD longer than I did DS - though I am really happy we nursed as long as we did - so we will probably go for it around her 2nd birthday. I told DH that IF we had an oops, I could handle it, I mean, I'd have to, right?, but I really don't want an oops. ITA that part of it has to do with the house and stuff too.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Thanks. I'm just not willing to spend so much money for a video monitor for one kid that I may not even need for much longer. That Graco one is reasonably priced. The one I'm using is a Graco. I don't know if it's the model or that it's used but the buzzing is driving us all crazy. Sometimes it's fine and, strangely, doesn't seem to matter to which channel it's set. I mean, I can have the monitor set to X channel and have to switch the receiver back and forth between X and Y depending on the buzzing. I think weather and who knows what else affects it. The buzzing has really bad the last couple of days and it has been rainy.

Carrie ~ I would not buy the large diapers with that size range if Finn is 4 lbs. smaller. I have found that large diapers in almost every brand are very large. I don't think my kids ever fit into large, even Ethan who was as big as Finn. Once they started moving they started slimming down. I pulled out some large Swaddlebee's fitteds that I found the other day and tried them on Dylan. They were huge. No way they would work. We'd have poo blow out messes everywhere. Do you have to get them from that place? Here's a place that has some.

http://www.fuzzibunzworld.com/fuzzibunz.html

And another that I've ordered from before without problems. http://www.kellyscloset.com/-Fuzzi-Bunz-Pocket-Diapers_c_682-1.html

Dylan's doing ok. He's been extra fussy the past few days but sleeping ok at night.







He's getting his 4th tooth, the top front right one. He'll be 6 months tomorrow! I've scheduled a photo session for next week. I really want to get some professional photos of him while he's still a baby. I feel bad about not getting any while he was younger but I was just not up for it. I may have to buy him a shirt. I want to get some with all 3 boys (Ryan won't come







) so I need them to go together.

Funny you guys brought up the baby thing. I was thinking the other day about selling off my baby stuff as we don't need it anymore, specifically my carriers. Should I sell them or keep them? Then I thought, what if I get pg by accident and I've sold everything off? We'd have to start all over again and that would be expensive. So, I'd better keep at least some of it for a few more years.







I've been pretty consistent in feeling like I'm done. I don't think I'll ever want to try to have another baby. But I won't ever use any birth control other than FAM so there will always be a possibility of me getting pg again, at least for the next 5 years or so, I'm guessing. I know Sean would get a vasectomy but I really don't want him to. I think we can get through the next few years without that. It just really freaks me out.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Video monitors are pricey - I still love ours for Gabe; I don't need it for Norah, since she's always with us - but I like checking on Gabe without having to open his door and wake him up.

DH is totally getting a vasectomy when we are all done. We'll only use condoms during fertile time, once I know when that is. I started getting fertile signs at about this time with Gabe, but he wasn't actually in bed with us then, and I dn't think I nursed him as often as Norah wants to eat  so who knows? though she is more of a paci baby than he was.

LOL - thing about carriers is that they at least hold value well, especially if you have a weave or pattern that becomes HTF.

We'll get professional pics done again in March, but will have some spontaneous ones done by a friend too; she's awesome and does breastfeeding photography. I really want some to cherish.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I want to order from Nickis diapers b/c they have the Albert print BG AIO that I want. And they have the FB in black. I really, really want that one in black!!

I think after much thought, I'm going to go with the OS. 45 lbs is huge, Nora is only 34 lbs at 3 years old. That dipe would prob be big on her. She wasn't 20 lbs till a year, so I can't go entirely based off her, but I think OS is a safer bet. I like safe bets.

DH and I were talking about vacations and he brought up taking the kids to Disneyworld. I want to wait until Finn is 2, and Nora will be about 5.

This summer though we may go somewhere else. Not sure yet. Anyone else have plans to travel?

We'll get pics done at 6 mo too! I can't wait. I want some cute ones!! Tho -- Finn needs to be sitting and Nora's bangs need a little time to grow!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I really want to do 4th of July in NC this year. we had plans to in 2011, but life got in the way. If we do, would love to say hi to MW and whoever else, is it movingmama?, is in the area.

this spring, with either tax money or bonus money, I want to spend a weekend in Charlotte/Hickory area to visit Ikea and family there. I also want to go to Raleigh . . . but don't know how to work that in!

Does Finn tripod sit yet? just curious. I know I want to get naked baby pics of Norah, we did Gabe's and I LOVE them. but it has to before a year. (why this arbitrary rule, IDK - that's what JCPenney's says)

We want to do Disney too; but I want Gabe to be at least 5. and I want to have enough $$ that we can really enjoy the experience and not be doing it on an extreme budget. (which I know can be done, but I don't want to have to worry about it)

www.squishytushy.com has some good deals, but no black FB  is Black a retired color, because I don't even see it on their website?

this is the only good looking OS pocket I found in black:

http://hyenacart.com/LittleLemonTree/mt/797/90567/One-Size-PUL-Pocket-Diaper-Black-and-Green


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Nope, he doesn't tripod sit. If we really work with him, he might balance on his own for 5 seconds but he isn't even really trying. I can tell he isn't engaging any core muscles. Nora was sitting on her own by 5 1/2 months so by comparison he's behind, but for his size and age, I'm not worried. He'll do it. He sits fine in his high chair and bumbo, and those will do until he's ready.

I'll put some pics on FB of Nora and Finn at the same age again. I love doing that. You can see how chubby Nora was, lol!

Here is the black FB. I ordered it in OS, and I got my Albert print BG and one other dipe.

http://www.nickisdiapers.com/fuzzibunz-one-size-diapers-black.html

Stoked!!

I hear you about wanting to do disney all out if you go. That's kind of why I want to wait. With a 1 year old even, I'm worried about not getting the most out of what we spend. I want him to at least go on rides and not be terrified. I want him to remember it, even a little.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Yeah, I see them on Nicki's website, maybe because everywhere else has the new ELITE ones? and these are pre-elite?

It's not that I want to spend buckets of money at Disney, I just want to go with kind of the thought that if there's something there that we want or want to do, that we not be too limited by money to do it.

Gabe was not nearly as squishy as Norah is at this age. Let me see if I can compare. Actually, in these shots they look pretty similiar! LOL


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

We have the bumbo tray and it doesn't keep DD from trying to arch out of it. I need to get a highchair for her but our eating space is already so limited. I have looked at the ones that clip on the table but I don't know if they will work. I also like the Chicco one that folds up when not in use. Interesting discussion between the nutrionist and the speech/path lady at the hospital this morning. The nutrionist was trying to convince me that DD needed to start solids soon. The speech/path was saying she didn't think she was ready because she doesn't have good trunk control. They both were against bumbos but said that the PT guy loves them and recommends them. How's that for three different expert opinions?!?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I am going to have to do multiple replies because the nook doesn't add paragraphs when I hit return for some reason. I really want some more BG 4.0s but I can't justify them right now. I love the new prints. I want one of each!


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I want to do Disney when DD is 4 or 5. I want to be able to stay onsite and not have to rush around. It would be really fun to do the Disney cruise as well. We may go to Philly again either for spring break or in the summer. Our friends just bought a second house there and said we could go stay whenever we want! They have a great science museum there and lots of fun things that the kids enjoy. We did July 4th there a few years ago and we all loved it.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Sorry guys! I'm here, but normally if I'm sitting here reading, it's because Tenley is nursing or sleeping on my arm, and I find it so annoying to type one handed. I've finally got her positioned right now so she's nursing and I can actually type with both hands. Persistence! lol

Annie-- SUCH big hugs. I can't imagine how hard going through all of that must be, and even harder not being able to pick her p to comfort her. How long do you think until you guys will be able to again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

I was trying to get him and myself situated so that he could nurse and he threw himself backward and hit his head hard on the table.







I felt like a big mommy failure.

A couple weeks ago, DD was having a screaming fit, going on like 30+ minutes without a break, and I was at my wits end. I had to go feed the dog, and when I bent down to scoop the food, I totally banged her head on the cupboard door. I felt -horrible-, because obviously it was totally an accident, but since I was so upset with her, all I could think was "She's going to think I did it on purpose!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

So, here I am up with him again. He took his late afternoon nap at 8:30 and woke up around 10. Who knows how late we'll be up now.


> I've decided I need another baby monitor. I bought the one I have 2nd hand and it's too loud and staticy. I can't stand it anymore. I don't need a video monitor and probably don't even need one with 2 receivers. I had just 1 receiver with the one I had for Kellen but thought I needed two because we stayed upstairs most of the time. The boys played with that like it was a walky talky and I have no idea where it is. I'm sure it's buried somewhere but I can't find it. Now I stay downstairs all the time so the one is just fine. I don't want to spend a lot of money but I think I want to get something new this time just to make sure it's in good shape. Do you all have any suggestions?


I've been 'trying' (as in, wanting to, but not really doing anything...) to move up Tenley's night time. Right now she doesn't settle for the night until between 11 and midnight. She does one 3-4 hour stretch always, and then some nights it's up every 1.5 hours after that, and some nights she'll do another 3 hour stretch... but then we end up staying in bed until 10am or later so that I can get enough sleep to function. It would be nice to have her go down at 9 or 10 and us be able to wake up between 8-10 instead. In theory it seems easy, since she usually goes down for a nap around 8pm... but its like she knows when I'm trying to get her down earlier, and instead of sleeping longer (and starting her night routine of no 'playtime' in between feeding/sleeping), she actually wakes up more often.

The monitor we want to get is a cheap Summer Infant one- it's silver and blue, I think the name of it refers to it being slim or something. We've used it at my SIL's house, and even from 6 feet away from the monitor, you can hear the second hand of a clock ticking, but everything else was very clear. It's $50 here in Canada.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> One of DH's cousin's little boy is a month younger than Norah and she was saying how she doesn't get anything done when he decides not to nap. I told her that that is the beauty of baby carriers. They are awesome!


See, in theory this is fantastic... but DD is often so picky in the wrap that I can't actually do anything. I have my hands free, but any movement that involves more than just my hands, she fusses and wakes up. Now, other times, she WILL settle and sleep through anything, but not often. I wish she would just fully settle in them and have nice long naps. She did one day, and I totally took it for granted that it would keep happening, and I'd get stuff done every day. Not so  As it stands, I get small things done each day while DH is at work, but for the most part, all my progress gets done after he gets home and I pass her off to him. During the day I'm either sitting with her while she sleeps (and reading or watching tv), or bouncing, walking, shushing, cooing at her trying to soothe her.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> JJ - You still didn't get your wetbag??


I got it today. So you guys saw the post on FB, and then like an hour after I posted that, I got an email from them, stating that they were sorry, and it was a mail issue, a whole shipment appears to have gone missing...etc etc. Then today they drove it over and hand delivered it. They also threw in a small snack bag, and a few washcloths that they make (that I've bought before and -love-). I'm glad to have it, but it makes me roll my eyes that they didn't really do anything until I posted on FB.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Funny you guys brought up the baby thing. I was thinking the other day about selling off my baby stuff as we don't need it anymore, specifically my carriers. Should I sell them or keep them? Then I thought, what if I get pg by accident and I've sold everything off? We'd have to start all over again and that would be expensive.


We're struggling with this right now. Since the past two months have been so much rougher than we had ever imagined, DH is adamant that we're done and Tenley will be an only child. This isn't acceptable to me, and I'm convinced he'll change his mind. In the meantime, DD is outgrowing her first crop of clothing and diapers, and of course DH wants to sell all of it. I don't, because I got it all at such great deals/free, that selling and having to buy it all back in a few years would be really silly financially. But of course coming from the standpoint of being 'sure' that we're done, DH thinks it's stupid to keep it.

Dog is into something, I'll be back later I [email protected]


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> So you guys saw the post on FB, and then like an hour after I posted that, I got an email from them, stating that they were sorry, and it was a mail issue, a whole shipment appears to have gone missing...etc etc. Then today they drove it over and hand delivered it. They also threw in a small snack bag, and a few washcloths that they make (that I've bought before and -love-). I'm glad to have it, but it makes me roll my eyes that they didn't really do anything until I posted on FB.


Yeah, too much, too late. It sounds like as soon as they were worried about bad publicity they decided to do the right thing. But, it should have been done weeks ago. I'd accept everything they gave me but still tell everyone I know not to ever buy from them. First, shoddy products and then horrible customer service.

i think i'm going to be up late again tonight. Ryan woke Dylan up an hour early from his first nap. He fell back to sleep about an hour before we had to leave for Ethan's basketball game so I had to wake him up then. I hated doing that because he was sleeping so peacefully. He stayed up with all the excitement and noise at the game but fell asleep in the car on the way home. That gave him a little cat nap from about 8-8:30, which means he'll probably be up until at least midnight. Last night he was up until 1 am.

At least I get to sleep late. I've been getting up around 9:30 or 10 and all the boys are still sleeping. It's nice to have a cup of coffee before I have to attend to everyone. But, like you, I wish it was earlier. I'd love to be able to get up at 8, have a cup of coffee and have the boys get up around 8:30. Then we might actually be able to go out and do something early. There's a homeschool gymnastics class that 2 other families from my homeschool group go to that I want to try but it's at 10 am and I know we will never make it.

Basketball will be over soon and Sean will be home so, hopefully, things will change back when that happens. Sean can take Ethan to baseball and maybe even take both Ethan and Kellen back to TKD and I can stay home with Dylan.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> At least I get to sleep late. I've been getting up around 9:30 or 10 and all the boys are still sleeping. It's nice to have a cup of coffee before I have to attend to everyone. But, like you, I wish it was earlier. I'd love to be able to get up at 8, have a cup of coffee and have the boys get up around 8:30. Then we might actually be able to go out and do something early. There's a homeschool gymnastics class that 2 other families from my homeschool group go to that I want to try but it's at 10 am and I know we will never make it.


Yeah it sucks missing things because you need the sleep instead! lol I've been trying to look up more mamas groups and meetings, etc around the area to break up our days, and keep myself patient and in a good headspace. But so many of them are at 10 or 1030... so we'd need to leave the house at 930, nurse right before at 9, which means I'd need to be up at about 8 to allow myself time to shower, dress, eat, and account for 'oops' time to get her ready. I can't do 8am yet, at that point, I'm usually still crossing my fingers for another 3 hour stretch.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> which means I'd need to be up at about 8 to allow myself time to shower, dress, eat, and account for 'oops' time to get her ready.


I will never understand why mommy and baby groups schedule things in the mornings. You'd think they could at least stagger the times, doing one week in the morning and one week in the afternoon, so more people could come. I'm lucky my homeschool group is willing to do things later in the day. Our park days are at either 11 or noon and bowling is at 11. Anything earlier I would not be able to make.

I gave up showering before going anywhere, even in the afternoon, for the first 4 or 5 months. I was lucky if I got a shower once a week during that time. It was more important for me to get the kids out of the house sometimes. Now I can shower more often because Dylan can sit in his bath seat. He showers with me and then plays in the bath while I get dressed, which also saves time because then I don't have to find special time to bathe him.

You could shower at night when your dh is home so that would be one less thing you'd have to do in the mornings.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Yup, I shower at night, too, probably at most every other day. I just can't get anywhere if I try to get myself ready the morning of. Maybe if it were a first time meeting and I didn't want to look a fright, I would try. Tmw am I have a friend coming over, and I do want to shower first but she wants to be here at 10. I don't think it's that important. I'd rather the house be picked up than my make up done. Horrible. I'm pathetic!! Lol!!

we are up at 730 most days, 8 the latest. Sucks, but that's when Finn decides he's up for the day. Nora is up shortly after.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> We're struggling with this right now. Since the past two months have been so much rougher than we had ever imagined, DH is adamant that we're done and Tenley will be an only child. This isn't acceptable to me, and I'm convinced he'll change his mind. In the meantime, DD is outgrowing her first crop of clothing and diapers, and of course DH wants to sell all of it. I don't, because I got it all at such great deals/free, that selling and having to buy it all back in a few years would be really silly financially. But of course coming from the standpoint of being 'sure' that we're done, DH thinks it's stupid to keep it.
> 
> Dog is into something, I'll be back later I [email protected]


I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I wasn't Catholic. Jacinta was really really really really REALLY hard (sounds kind of like Tenley) I never thought it would get better. Finally, of course, it did.

When I got pregnant with Mikelina (on accident) - I told myself "I still have 9 months, I have 9 months. The evil horrible HELL only lasts a 5 or 6 months. It's ok" LOL Mikelina showed up and she was the most chill baby I have ever seen! Literally, I think she had a crying fit 2 times. Literally.

Arianna is somewhere in the middle. But she's so old now I can't really remember the littleness anymore. Now she is just a little terror









Anyways, my point is - not *all* babies are that tough. Can I guarantee you won't get the same (or worse)? no. But I still think it's worth it!


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

AnnieA - I have been following along on FB and on here. You.are.amazing. Seriously momma - I wish I was closer so I could bring you food or keep you company. Ava is amazing, and soooo adorable!

That is crazy about your house! That is so something I could see myself doing - especially when stressed. I think the oxygen tanks would have had to actually had flame next to them to blow.

When the townhomes 30 feet away from me where burning down - about 20 cars were on fire as well. It was really loud with all the popping tires and what not but NO cars exploded into the air!

Now I always yell at the TV when a car catches fire and everyone runs and the car blows up 20 feet into the air and the doors fly off. It *does not* happen that way







They might have been burnt to a crisp, but they were all exactly where they started. Yikes, thats a bad memory.....

Ohhh - sheesh - to much to keep up on.

MW - I second the suggestion to go read reviews on Amazon or something on baby monitors. Even if you don't buy from them, the reviews really help. I don't buy anything without reading reviews now! LOL

BabyCakes - I hope the next few days without DH are smooth for you!

I am sure I am forgetting quite a few things. I will go back and read


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Annie2186-- I totally get it, and also have the headspace that while right now I feel like a useless zombie (lol?), it will pass, and she will be this cute little ball of joy. DH can't see that far ahead right now, and the thought of having another spirited child like her is out of the question to him. But I do thikn that will change once she settles and is able to 'give' more back to us.

RE: Showers. I have to shower in the morning. I'm still at that postpartum stage where I'm burning up at night, especially when she sleeps on me, and so by morning, I'm usually covered in vomit, and quite sweaty. I am very lucky though that I've gotten a shower pretty much every day since about 2 weeks pp. First because DH was so good about taking her as soon as I woke up, and then lately it's because we realized she loves the sound of the water so much that she'll actually sit in her bouncer cgair for 10 minutes as long as the water runs. She screams as soon as I turn it off, so I haver to dry off/get dressed while holding her, but at least I get clean!

If we could afford to run the water all day long, I'd get a lot more done around the house! lol


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

JJ, do you have a sound machine? The rain sound on our Sleep Sheep sounds a lot like the shower running. Maybe she would like that? I am with you on morning showers. Absolute must. Daily showers too. Although all that goes out the window when DD is in the hospital. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between the days. I feel like I'm just taking a series of naps. :/ Annie, thanks so much. You guys' support from afar is just as helpful to me as the support from local friends! I was able to hold DD for a few minutes tonight but it upset her more than soothed her because I couldn't hold her like I normally do because she still has her central line in.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: Norah doesn't always sleep on me - she's usually content/happy in the wrap, especially if she's on my back. Now, she doesn't really like the process of getting back-wrapped yet, but she LOVES being back there. She's never really been swaddled, it's the closest thing to it though and she just gets in a happy zone in a wrap.

We obv have our two, and there are days DH feels DONE because I think for guys it's really hard to see past the crazy of the NOW. But then we have our good days - which far outnumber the rough ones, and he gets back to a maybe frame of mind. I would say check back in with your DH around Tenley's first birthday and see where he's at. In the meantime, just focus on cutiepie there.

Re: kids groups in the morning - especially once kids reach toddler hood, it seems most of them take their long nap in the afternoon and so that is why we do most of ours in the morning. That and alot of moms have older kids in school and need to be back home for them. I can easily get us somewhere by 10. If DH is coming it's more like 10:30 or 11.

I'm the exception; I'm up between 5:30 and 6 in the morning. Sleeping in is 7:30. If we have a routine, this is what it looks like . . . I think Norah is going down between 9 and 10 to sleep (she starts downstairs in the rocker). Whenever we go to bed, between 11 and 12, she goes with us, and I either nurse her again, or we just go to sleep, depending on if she needs it or not. Lately she's been waking about every 2 hours to nurse a little. Then we get up around 6, sometimes she wants to nurse, others she just goes in the rocker and talks to me for a little while before going back to sleep. Her first good nursing session (the night time ones seem to be more "snacky" or just to put herself back to sleep) is between 9 an 10 a.m. from there, it's every 3 hours or so.

I need coffee!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> RE: Showers. I have to shower in the morning. I'm still at that postpartum stage where I'm burning up at night, especially when she sleeps on me, and so by morning, I'm usually covered in vomit, and quite sweaty. I am very lucky though that I've gotten a shower pretty much every day since about 2 weeks pp. First because DH was so good about taking her as soon as I woke up, and then lately it's because we realized she loves the sound of the water so much that she'll actually sit in her bouncer cgair for 10 minutes as long as the water runs. She screams as soon as I turn it off, so I haver to dry off/get dressed while holding her, but at least I get clean!


Oh yes, how quickly I forgot about how SWEATY you are the first few weeks/months!! I'm sorry. You're so right.

I remember fighting with DH b/c he wasn't home in time from the gym to allow me a shower before he started work.

Wow, I can't believe how quickly these past months have flown by.

I usually have Finn in the jumper and Nora involved in something safe - tv with breakfast or snack, or her DS, or coloring or SOMETHING safe - so I can jump in the shower. Coloring -- maybe not so much right now. She's been having fun being a picasso on the walls lately. It never ends! If it's not one thing its another.

I did get puked on this morning and skipped my shower yesterday, so hopefully I'll grab one once Nora gets up.

Kat - yikes on getting up that early, but I'm sure you get used to it to a degree!! I'm having my cup of coffee now (Finn wanted UP for the day at 7 and I just didn't wanna!!!)

That's a good point about toddlers taking their naps. I hadn't thought of that. (duh). Probably b/c when Nora was a toddler she didn't really nap anymore.

PS - omg Norah and Gabe at the same age!!!! Too cute -- and they do look similar!!! Ok I'm motivated to do a comparison shot again!!

So - Finn has definitely outgrown his size 3 diapers, like within a week. Instead of pawning them off I'm going to take the pack I have left and try to donate them to a women's shelter. Come to think of it I might go through my clothes and things and see what else I could part with. I might have some things they could use. That could be my good deed for the day.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ I forgot about the sweatiness of early PP, too. I'd still skip the shower to get if it were just that. Just put on lots of deodorant and maybe some perfume. Haha! The puke thing, yeah, I'd want to clean that off. I wouldn't want to go out smelling like puke.

I agree with everyone else about not worrying too much at this point about your dh saying he's done. No matter what the baby is like and no matter how prepared people think they are, no one is ever fully prepared for that first baby. It's so normal to feel completely overwhelmed and in shock. Let some time pass and revisit having another baby.

Yeah, Kat, that's what I was thinking. Early playdates for mamas with older babies/toddlers who sleep through the night (for the most part) and take one long afternoon nap. Sadly, though, that leaves the brand new mamas alone. That's why I said it would be really nice if groups would stagger their meet up times and even days maybe.

JJ ~ Maybe you could start your own meet up later in the day. Have you ever been on that website, MeetUp? You can set up a group and wait for people to join.

We don't have any vacation plans. I'm still just waiting for dh to come home and hope we can make it through the next few months. He's been sending me emails recently about us and how he really does want to be with me and wants to work things out so maybe that's a good sign. I haven't said anything to him but I did give him a marriage book to read, which he said he's been reading and can't wait to get home to do the exercises with me. I guess that's what's prompting the emails.









Sean does have something like 120 days of leave. It would be nice to go somewhere else for a while. I've been wanting to go to the NC mountains since we've been here. My little kids have never seen mountains! This would be our last year to do it since we'll be moving next year.

Kat ~ I'd love to meet up with you, too. Where would you go in NC, just the places you named or was that just places you want to go? I'm not near Charlotte at all. Wish I was because they have a lot of stuff to do there and lots of unschoolers. I'm about 2.5 hours from Raleigh so we could definitely meet if you were there or, of course, if you came even closer, like the Crystal Coast or Carolina Beach.


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## **mom2one** (Jan 26, 2008)

hi all! I hadn't had a chance to write lately - but I have been reading so I feel caught up with everyone!

AnnieA - thinking of you and your little girl! That would be so hard not being able to pick her up all the time - hard for both of you! At least you were able to hold her a bit now - soon hopefully you can hold her the way she likes.

JJ - agreed - give him time and he will most likely change his mind. When I was wanting to have our first my DH was like "if we have one - we're having 4!" Then she was born and was very high needs - cried for like 3 months etc and was just a really "hard" baby and he was never having any more! But 3 years later we had #2 and now we have #3 (although he wasn't planned). He doesn't even say we are done now like he did after DD#2, I think he realized that sometimes you might be done and a baby has another idea! lol We are building on to our house (still not moved into the addition) and all we really needed was a new bedroom but we have a bedroom, a bathroom and a huge bonus room upstairs and I asked him why we didn't just add on a simple bedroom and be done with it - he said well if we had one surprise I am sure we will have another one - and now we have room! So yeah - they do change their minds!

We took Kenya to get her hair cut yesterday! It was her first time at the hairdresser. She got it cut to a little longer than chin length - it looks cute. She has really fine, thin hair and it was just looking so stringy so this makes it look thicker, it makes her look her age - when we went in the hairdresser asked her"how old are you honey - 4? 3?" She's 6. Then she asked her what grade she was in and she said 1, then she asked "what's your teacher's name?" Kenya just kind of looked at her funny and said "mama"! lol

So for sleep I have to say Dax is a great sleeper! He usually gives me one 5 hour stretch at night! Do you guys find that the more they sleep, the more they sleep?? If that makes any sense - but like if he has a good morning nap then he will sleep more in the afternoon and evening, but if he has a crappy morning nap hen he doesn't sleep good the rest of the day...

Baby boy is getting huge! He weighs 19 lbs at 3 months! he is wearing 6 months clothes and his feet are huge - his socks are the 12-18 month ones! He has never worn shoes yet - he hates when I even try them on him - and he has no need for shoes yet anyway. he is getting really strong - if he is laying on his back he is always trying to lift himself up and he will scooch himself all around in a circle. I think he is getting bored now though - he used to be happy to watch the girls playing but now I think he wants to do something too.

I still feel like I have the baby blues - maybe it's more than that now..I pretty much cry everyday at some point, for no reason that I can pinpoint. Not fun.

Well, I guess I should go get something done!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

for the 4th of July, we'd be with DH's grandpa in Hubert, and we go on base for the fireworks. Really I just like to bum around where I grew up mostly, though I'd love a day in Wilmington. I think DS is at an age where he might enjoy the battleship.

that is so good that Sean seems to be wanting to work on things! :joy: This is probably a basic thing - but with DH and I, so much hinges on the bedroom; if everything is going well there, then the rest is pretty smooth sailing. I don't know what's gotten into him lately, but it's the first time in our relationship that our sex drives have been about the same. (so not complaining! LOL even if it means a little less sleep for me at night - DH is a lot more considerate during the day about letting me rest and stuff - more like making me, since I am just not a sit there and relax sort of person normally! in that he takes over more of DS's drama and stuff)

You should totally do the mountains - it's fabulous, kid friendly, and not very expensive. your boys might love the caves; we've done the Linville Caverns a couple times, and liked it. The Linville falls not so much. Don't do blowing rock (do the town, but not the "attraction" - total waste of money). Chimney rock is fantastic, there is a lovely fall there. I've never done it, but I bet the boys would like Sliding rock in the summer.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Well, I made a bad call. I need to go grocery shopping today. I planned to go after Dylan's morning nap. That way I know I'll get at least a little time to do other things and he'll get at least one good nap in. So, of course, today is the day he decides not to take a morning nap. At this rate it will be 5 pm before I make it to the store. Ugh! I hate shopping late. At least I'm still motivated to go, whenever that may be.

Annie ~ I hope the hiccups are a good sign!

Kat ~ We can definitely get together if you are in Hubert. That's so close. Maybe we could even go to the fireworks together. I have never been on base because I hate crowds. But, if dh is here and I've got friends to go with, I think I could do it.

I'm still trying to clean my bed. Any ideas on getting cat urine smell out? So far, I've tried vinegar and some pet odor cleaner (that never really works). I have a sleep number bed so I can zip off the top cloth part of the mattress and clean both sides plus wipe down the inside air chambers. I was hoping I could put the top in the washing machine but the care instructions say to not do that.

Forgot about the sex thing. I'm the opposite. Things have to be good in other areas before I'm interested in sex. I have been so turned off by my dh because of our problems. It's really sad. Some of that is probably from breastfeeding hormones. It really lowers my libido. He had the nerve to ask me if I wasn't interested in sex because I felt unattractive since I put on some weight. I said, "Um, no. I'm not interested in having sex with a jerk (although I used a different word)." Yes, I'm mean sometimes.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: that is too funny! I think we are all mean sometimes. I mean, I don't like to holler at DS, but sometimes, it is necessary. I've been trying to do better about talking on his level instead of down to him (as in physically - squatting or whatever) - especially something important, I feel it really helps him hear and focus on what i'm saying. That said, it just isn't always possible.

Am I mean to DH . . . well, not really. or at least not that I can recall. I am sure it's happened though.

Cat pee: is the hardest scent in the world to be rid of. I don't know if you can spray on some sort of baking soda solution? that's an odor neutralizer.

Most things our cats peed on we just threw out. but you can't do that with your bed.

Fireworks on base IS crowded; however the field is so big, you don't have to be right on top of people. I am bummed they closed the dairy queen; that used to be our tradition is to get dairy queen and watch the fireworks. Baskin Robbins just isn't the same.

Mom2One: regarding more sleep = more sleep. The older the child, the more true I find this. It's more true for DS than DD. sometimes I think she only sleeps alot out of 2 extremes: boredom and overstimulation. otherwise, she has quite a bit of awake time. DS does so much better with a short nap than a long one. I do better with the long one. (but he wakes up such a grouch!) oh well.

Dax is a chunk! Norah is in 3-6 month clothes also, but only weighs a little over 13 lbs and she's 25 inches. she has a lot of torso length, so that is mostly why she's in that size. when they get so big so fast, it makes buying clothes ahead hard.

I bet Kenya's hair is cute! Much as I'd love to let Norah grow hers out, it will depend on its texture; if it looks good long, great, if it's on the finer side, we'll keep it short and simple. Though I think I won't bother with bangs for long time.

I need to have Gabe's haircut again. that is such a struggle. MW: did your boys fight haircuts as toddlers?


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I'm still trying to clean my bed. Any ideas on getting cat urine smell out? So far, I've tried vinegar and some pet odor cleaner (that never really works).


nak

i dont know if its the stuff you tried, but natures miracle pet cleaner is the stuff we recommended at the petstore when i worked there and had tons of great feedback from it. never had to use it myself though, hurleys only peed on things we can put in the wash.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Well, ya know, if you say something stupid and insulting like that to me, you're going to get it back from me. Funny that it never occurred to him that my problem might be with him and not with myself.









No, my boys didn't fight haircuts at all but we don't force them, either. If they don't want hair cuts, they don't get hair cuts. I think Ethan was around 15 months old when he got his first one. I was letting it grow long but, when Sean came home from deployment he wanted to have it cut. Kellen was close to 4 when he got his first hair cut. His hair doesn't grow much. Now he insists on getting his hair cut every time Ethan needs one even though there's not much to cut. If he didn't want to do it so often, I'd probably have to have his hair cut only twice a year. Dylan's hair has started growing. It's getting longer in the front and he's woken up a few times with bedhead. hehe I think his hair is going to be more like Ethan's than Kellen's.

I wish I could throw out the bed. I hate it! Sean likes it, though, and it cost us a fortune. I don't think it's fair that he gets to pick the bed when he doesn't have any trouble sleeping anywhere or on anything. I'm the one who has trouble sleeping and wakes up with sore muscles so I should pick. Of course, I didn't realize I hated this bed until after we bought it. :irk

I keep forgetting to ask, is it a pain to have Norah on your back when she wants to nurse? That's one reason I haven't been very motivated to learn a back carry with my wrap yet. It's so much work getting them on there. I don't want to have to keep wrapping and unwrapping to nurse. When D's in front I can pop him out and back in as needed or just nurse him in the wrap.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Gabe's hair gets all weird and fuzzy, so I like to keep it short, plus he gets hot and sweaty. I really wouldn't force it, but we've had luck only a couple times cutting his hair without a struggle. *sigh*

I only put her on my back specifically when she's been fed recently (but not *too* recently, else you get spit up down your back) and she's been up there maybe at most 45 minutesto an hour. I usually take her down because I want to sit down or something where being on my back isn't actually a good thing - not because she needs to nurse.

Honestly, it doesn't take long to get her up and wrapped. You have a limited amount of time to work with a baby back wrapping, as they aren't going to sit still forever. If I haven't got her good and secure in less than 5 minutes, I give up and wrap on my front. It's worth a try - I honestly thing Ruck Tied in Front is a very easy carry to learn. Double Hammock is awesome, but a little trickier at first. (I watched lots of youtube videos).

If you have a wiggle worm, Double Hammock or Jordan's Back Carry is probably your best bet. Ruck is better for non-wriggler or leaners.

I need to cut my hair again . . ..


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I get pretty worn out when getting baby on my back. I remember struggling with back wrapping Ethan, which why I thought I never did it. It was hard to get everything wrapped up properly, for me anyway. I can't do a rucksack carry because the shoulder "straps" feel like they are slipping off my shoulders and I get very uncomfortable trying to keep them on.

I've been having trouble with my ring sling lately. Dylan has started straightening his legs, which makes me worried that he's going to slip through the bottom. That makes me tense and feeling like I have to stand funny or keep adjusting him or hold him and then my back starts hurting. I've been using my mei tai more often but can't seem to get a hang of popping him in and out even though I've watched videos on that a few times.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

How long is the wrap you have? with a shorter wrap - I'm no good on what the length is - but for you, probably a 2 or 3 - you could do a Poppins or a Robin's hip carry that is a lot like the ring sling in pop-a-bility but more secure than a ring sling, because an extra pass goes under the legs. it's still one shoulder.

that's why I like the double hammock - it's the back carry that looks like you have a flat piece of fabric over your chest - I love the look of it, and it puts a lot of the weight off your shoulders. It's not diggy at all.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

MW - first I cannot believe Sean said that to you!! OMG I would have been livid and probably reacted the same way you did! I am happy to hear you he's reading that book. Yay.

Hmm... is the smell on the mattress or comforter? Hmm, I'll brainstorm.

I tried to get Finn on my back in the Boba and was only successful laying him on it on the bed, and then putting him on like a backpack. I've no idea how to do it otherwise. And I couldn't get him off w/o help! So -- I might try just sitting him in the shopping cart. Just today he's started sitting!! He lasts only seconds but that's more than yesterday!!

I haven't been able to nurse him in the boba either. I think my bbs are just too small. With the amount I need to loosen it, and how far he needs to slide down, I can't walk anymore. Doesn't seem to make sense.

I'm missing a ton, I know. I'll have to go back and see what I missed.

AFM - We had a great playdate this am. It was such fun and I got to catch up with a good friend. I gave her all my small/nb diapers and covers, and she gave me 2 AI2s - a Flip and a Grovia, and a bunch of inserts. Yay.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

i can't remember the length of my wrap but it's the shorter one, maybe 72". that's what was recommended since i'm so short. i can do poppable quick and easy with a front carry. can't ever remember the names of them but it's the one that criss crosses front and back, then wraps around my waist and tied in front. not the one with the pocket and then the crosses. that's easy and poppable, too, but now that D's bigger and i'm not yet small enough, my wrap isn't long enough.

i remembered my pouch today just to carry him to the cart. he sat in the cart the whole time. only got a little fussy a couple times toward the end when we stopped moving. he was leaned to the side a little. i couldn't get him to sit up straight.

kind of strange thing happened. there was a grown woman who was developmentally delayed shopping with some older people. we passed them once and she wanted to say high to D, which was fine. the woman with her told her not to touch. She did anyway but it was a very gentle touch on the top of his head so no biggie. She asked all my boys names and the woman started to sign to her so I signed their names, which was cool. I've never signed to someone who actually needed it before. She asked if Dylan was a boy in sign language and I knew what she was signing and could sign back. But we then passed them almost every aisle and every time the woman wanted to stop and touch D. At one point she even leaned over to kiss him. I didn't know what to do or say. The other woman wasn't paying attention at the time. She was like a child who couldn't speak or hear, I presume. What would you all have done?

To Sean's credit, he said that to me to tell me that he still found me attractive so I didn't need to feel self-conscious. I can understand why he would bring that up. We were both body building when we met and I was lean and mean.







I only weighed 112 and my bodyfat was only 12% or something ridiculous like that. We always talked about exercising and lifting weights and staying in that kind of shape. But having 3 babies and no one else around consistently to take care of them so I can exercise has put a bit of a damper on that for me. I'm not worried about that anymore, though. It doesn't bother me and I think I look pretty darn good with my curves. I'm not worried about getting that lean again. I don't want to. So, he was trying to make me feel more confident that he thought I was ok the way I am. It just didn't need to be said, ya know?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Well, at least he was trying to be nice  For me - because I've always been plus size - the fact DH is attracted to me is a big deal, it's why when we have "dry spells" it bugs me so much, because I need to know that he still desires me, you know? and well. It just seemed weird that he could go a while without sex and it not bother him too much.

Obv, we are with my IL's right now, and it looks like we will need to live with someone for a while longer while we get back on our feet. But this is not working out so well. Originally we chose to live here because MIL was already helping out financially. And my parents had people renting out their basement. BUT MIL is driving all of us insane. the electric bill went up a little from this time last year (well, duh. You have 4 extra people in the house and the company's rates went up) but she went all ballistic on FIL because he got this space heater to help cut down on the heater usuage. Which it likely did. Otherwise MIL would keep the temp set to 64* at night, which is far too cold for the kids.

DS has been taking later naps (not that we intentionally encourage this, but he just crashes) which results in a later bedtime, and thankfully a later morning wake up time also. And she is like, we need (she said we like including her??) get him on a better nighttime routine. It's a good thing I didn't hear this, because 1)it doesn't bother us that he's in bed late, I really like it that he sleeps in 2)SHE Is not the parent. what do his bedtime and morning times have to do with her? she's in bed before him 9 times out of 10, and she's gone to work well before anyone in the house wakes up.

My parents' tenants are moving out next month and they have offered us the basement. I think we are going to take it. It's a whole separate space, it's own living room, kitchen and everything. My parents are so laid back and easy going about stuff, my mom works on the property and my dad is in school so they are around to help out too.

anyway - had to vent a little,

re: weird lady: as long as it's not upsetting the kids, and I think especially small kids have a good creep-o-meter, I think it wouldnt bother me too much.but I agree on the weirdness factor.

yay on the signing! its been so long since I learned, I have forgotton alot.

Carrie: I have big boobs and I am short and I cant figure out nursing in the Boba either. I can in a ring sling or wrap.

re: getting him down: can you sit in the car and undo the buckles? most of the people I see get a baby down have kids that can at least stand well, if not walk, so they squat, undo buckles and kiddo slides down and runs off.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Awesome about using the sign language, MW. Thats pretty neat that it came into real life usage like that! How helpful. I'm sure it felt really good.

I would probably be a little put off by the person kissing my baby, just like you were, but I don't think I would have done much of anything. I might have just said, "No, no kissing," while shaking my head no and trying to move along. Maybe she could hear but couldn't speak, so the sign language was useful for her to communicate? It's a tough situation, but I think I would treat that person like someone else's toddler or something. If they wanted to kiss my baby or my child, I wouldn't like it much. But saying hi, or a high five (trying to put it in context) would be ok, you know?

Not much can be spread through a simple kiss other than a cold or a virus like it. Right?

There is a special needs cart attendant at my supermarket. I've almost run out of polite things to say. I don't know how many times I can answer him that yes, Finn is a boy, and no, he isn't a girl, and yes he is a baby, and yes, he's cute. I know, I'm mean. But it's every time I see him (which is weekly, sometimes twice weekly)! And he waits by my car for the shopping cart, even though it's clear I need time to buckle my kids in their seats and then unload all the bags. He tries to be friendly, but ... sigh. I don't know. I feel bad for him but I don't always have my heart or mind in the right place.

Ok - I get what you're saying about Sean's comment. LOL. At least he was trying to make you feel better!! But agreed, it didn't need to be said.









Kat - ugh. Seriously if I were you I'd take up the offer on the basement. I wouldn't like those comments either. I don't like when my ILs make comments about anything related to parenting, and we don't live with them!! It would feel so judgy to me.

How do you get Norah off your back? Do you wear her on your back out and about or only at home?

I'm going to try to make Irish Soda Bread for Nora's class tomorrow. I have some irish in me and it's for around the world week. I also have to come up with something just for her. All the kids are bringing in something, so she needs something to take the place of that (in case it isn't vegan) and then her own thing to share. Hmm...

I also just ordered some photos and I'm hoping to pick up a small album today to fill. I finally printed some labor and birth pictures, and the first pictures of Finn's life, and Im going to do a small memory album. I want to make a photobook but I just haven't had time. I also haven't gotten a baby book for him either, and I feel a little sad about that. I should just pick one up.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Kat ~ The basement at your parent's sounds much nicer. Just having your own space would do it for me. I'm not good at sharing my space with anyone. I had that same kind of trouble living with my mother when Ryan was a baby. To this day she doesn't understand why I moved out as soon as I could. I wish I could have stayed with her. It would have made things so much easier financially and probably better for Ryan, emotionally, to have more than one adult to help care for him. I just couldn't take her constant meddling and telling me how to do things, though, and no matter how much I told her to back off she just wouldn't. Anyway, thanks your ILs for their hospitality and help and move OUT!










It was the kissing that grossed me out. I don't want a stranger kissing my children. But I don't have any experience, really, with people who look like adults but act like children. I didn't want to upset her or hurt her feelings. The other woman with her had been really good at watching her up to that point. I think she was distracted by an elderly man with them who seemed completely out of it. Ethan and Kellen were freaked out by her but not in a scared way. They just thought she was weird and didn't want her touching them again. So, every time we turned down an aisle where she was, they'd say, "Oh no! There's that freaky lady! Duck!" and they'd hide in between the cart and their seats. They were kind of loud but I don't think they were loud enough for anyone else to hear or know what they were talking about but that was embarrassing.

That lady in the video Annie posted on FB made getting a baby on your back with wrap look so easy. I wonder if I could do that with D now that he's older and sitting up.

Carrie ~ How do you know what food that the other kids bring is vegan or not?

I need to do something about my meal planning and grocery shopping. I always make a list but I don't really plan meals. It used to be easy. I'd get the basics, meat, starches, vegetables, fruits, drinks and snacks and we'd be fine. Now, though, so many foods, like beef, freak me out so that I can't buy them. I end up not getting much food for making meals. I get a bunch of Amy's organic or other vegetarian frozen meals. Then I spend a ton of money ($250 this week!) and feel like I don't have any food.

I used to get a weekly email vegetarian meal planner with recipes. It was a site that hade lots of choices, regular, vegetarian, vegan, low sodium, etc. Anyone know what I'm talking about?


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: e-mealz.com I bet is it.

re: getting baby off my back - in a wrap I just unwrap her to the point where I have just the two tails I'm holding snug, then I reach back and and scoot her with my left hand while holding the wrap with my right hand and she comes under my left arm to the front.. I am leaning forward a bit while doing this. not sure how that work with the Boba, since you have the straps going over and under your arms.

I get her on my back in sort of a modified Superman toss. I hold her close in front of me (kind of like I'm burping her) and spread the fabric over her back and shoulders, then lift and put her on my back like I was going to piggy back her, with one arm on either side of my neck to be sure she's both high and centered. It's called Superman because the wrap is spread almost like a cape.

The hard part is making sure the bottom of the wrap gets good and snug under her bum and between the two of us. I'm getting better at that part.

I think we are totally going to move out; I need to bring it up with my parents this weekend, to at least let them know we are seriously considering it, just need to work out the details.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Thanks for that link. I don't think that was the place I was talking about. It doesn't seem familiar but I'll try it. I remembered that I printed a bunch of the recipes from before. I think I still have them. Just need to find them. I liked it because none of the recipes used meat substitutes. It was all whole veggies.

What do you all think is worse, hormone-laden meat or GMO plant based foods? I know what Carrie will say.









That's a big part of my problem. I don't have much choice for organic or non-GMO foods. A lot of the GMO foods aren't labeled so there's not really any way to know. The few things that I can get here are so expensive that I can't possibly buy enough for all of us all the time. It's so frustrating! At least I wouldn't have to worry about Ryan. He has no interest in going vegetarian. Sean will spend all his money on meat when he gets home, too.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Both bother me! LOL! If I had to choose though, I think the meat is unethical, but the GMO stuff scares the crap out of me. I make sure what I buy says non-gmo on it. I don't know what i'd choose if I had to pick b/w the two...

I don't know necessarily what the other kids are bringing but I do trust the teachers to not give her anything she isn't allowed. They understand no meat, no dairy, no eggs. To that extent, if they aren't sure what's in it they don't offer it to her. And she's wise enough to ask, as well. She doesn't share others food and asks unprompted if it has cows milk or if it's meat. So. That's all I can "control".

The irish soda bread is in the oven! We'll see how it turns out. I've never made it before, so here goes nuthin'!

PS. Finn is sitting up so well! I didn't have a memory card in the camera so all the pics I took came out a little blurry b/c I only had my phone. But look!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

He is! such big boy (both in the literal sense and in the he's just growing up so fast sense)

Which bothers me more? hmmm. It is easier to buy hormone and antibiotic free meat. One of the stores here - publix which I know isn't in NC - has a store brand of organic meats and milks. The non-GMO stuff is freaky too, but I only buy the non-GMO stuff when there is a clear option. like with baby oatmeal. or some of the cornstarches, etc, if there is GMO (it's not labeled as such, but whatever)next to one that says non-GMO, I choose the non-GMO one.

What I like about e-mealz is there are a lot of options. I used to subscribe to a couple different menu plans (low carb, eating for 2 at whichever store, etc) so I would have some options.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think the only way to be as safe as I can is to buy all organic. But, it's soooooo expensive. We just can't afford enough of it to feed all of us. Not to mention there's such a limited supply here. I do wonder, too, how safe non-GMO produce is from GMO produce. I can see that everything will eventually be GMO even if we stopped producing it because there's no way to completely control cross-contamination. Unless, I guess, all the non-GMO stuff is grown in buildings that can't be accessed by free-range bugs and seeds.









yay for finn sitting up!

That sounds like a good set up, Carrie. I was imagining you asking for a list of ingredients from everyone's food and them giving you the evil eye.









I'm in trouble. My house is a mess and I need to go to the post office but I threw my back out. I can barely move or even pick D up. Nothing is going to get done and it's going to drive me crazy.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> I think the only way to be as safe as I can is to buy all organic. But, it's soooooo expensive. We just can't afford enough of it to feed all of us. Not to mention there's such a limited supply here. I do wonder, too, how safe non-GMO produce is from GMO produce. I can see that everything will eventually be GMO even if we stopped producing it because there's no way to completely control cross-contamination. Unless, I guess, all the non-GMO stuff is grown in buildings that can't be accessed by free-range bugs and seeds.
> 
> ...


Lol!! No way!! We're strict but not THAT strict!!

Idk much about the GMO dilemma. I should read more about it. I read something the other day that whole foods was even starting to sell GMO things. It's a bit out if control.

What if you did free range organic meat once a week, or twice? The rest of the week eat vegetarian. It's easy enough. I think you could save a ton of money, and not buying those over priced Amy's meals will help!!

I'm going a, little nuts today., Nora is very needy, everything is mommy come here, mommy come see, and Finn is stressing out over sitting, teething, and his reflux. I stopped the zantac BC we were down to once a day every other day. Today he's having lots of silent reflux, choking, and barking hiccups. He's not happy. I gave him his medicine tonight, and some Tylenol for his teeth. I feel spent. Totally spent. Having some wine and watching blues clues with Nora, then we are all going to BED.

MW, I hope your back feels better soon!!

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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I can't even get organic, free range or grass fed meats. The Commissary sells organic ground beef and bison and I buy a little of that. That's why I want to switch to vegetarian again as much as possible. I think it will cost less and probably be healthier.

I'm not clear on exactly what the issues with GMO foods are. At first I thought it wasn't any different than cross-breeding and didn't get what the big deal was. But I've read that they insert DNA from completely related organisms, like from fish into corn (I don't know if that's what they actually do but it's something like that.). That's freaky. And, maybe viruses or other organism that are supposed to act as internal pesticides. I don't see how that's any safer than using something like DDT. We were talking about that at park day today. One woman told me that she knew someone who used to raise feeder rats. At first, this lady just fed the rats the store bought corn stuff that was GMO but all her rats developed stomach tumors. She switched to making her own organic feed and the tumors cleared up. She said she had fancy rats for a while and fed them corn-based rat food from a store and they got stomach tumors, too. Totally anecdotal but it makes you think.

Dylan's been having a lot of silent reflux again, too. He's been spitting up a few times a day, which he never used to do at all, and he cries when he does. His weight gain is slowing. He gained a little over a pound from month 4 to 5 but less than a pound from month 5 to 6. He's 18 lbs. and 3 ounces. He was 17 lbs. and 14 ounces at 5 months. That's a gain of only 6 ounces. I didn't get around to measuring his length today. I'll do that tomorrow. I know it's normal for weight gain to slow from 4-6 months and then again from 6-9 months but I don't know by how much. I need to look that up.

My back is feeling better after I took a double dose of ibuprofen. I'm still not going to clean anything today. Sweeping and mopping and bending and lifting make it worse. Hopefully, I'll feel well enough tomorrow to do it because my house really needs it. If I miss doing laundry one day, it piles up fast.


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## Just1More (Jun 19, 2008)

Marine Wife...totally crashing, but I moused over the list of posts and caught "can't get organic, etc" from you post, saw your name, and knew you live in NC. I used to live there and would get my beef from a man in Wilmington. I would buy it by the 1/2 cow, and we really enjoyed it. It was really good. His name is Ron Koster of Tarheel Beef. I don't know if he is still doing it or not, but though I'd throw it out there if you're interested. He would deliver on base for about $50, too.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

gah. I keep reading, and having things to say, but then not being able o type, so intending to come back later... and then I forget everything I wanted to say. Oh well.

I know several of you have SSCs... I think we're going to be in the market for one soon, once I can convince DH that we truly do need it. I feel like a basic mei tai is my preference, but I know there's lot of other similiar options out there-- boba, ergo, etc. Which ones do you guys have, what are the benefits over a mei tai? I like the mei tai in theory because it seems simpler. I seem to have a bit of a sensory integration issue, and so not having extra buckles and straps etc etc seems like a big bonus to me.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: I am going to through you for a loop by adding an option: a Half Buckle carrier. It buckles at the waist, but the shoulders are ties, like this:

look here: http://babiesbeyondborders.com/catalog.php?category=10

I am really leaning towards trying one. I hate adjusting 5 different buckle/straps on the Boba for the right fit. (same with any full buckle carrier) Though I like my Boba better than the Ergo. I really love Kinderpacks (you have to google them) but they are pricey. but can be found used on FSOT alot. Also, KP's are available in lots more sizes so maybe can get a better fit without having to adjust as many buckles and what not.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Theres a site you can rent carriers from to try them out...what is it called????

This is it!!

http://paxbaby.com/zen/paxbabys-sling-exchange-c-44.html?zenid=4501d70c1acb8800a4fef0d2e3036aa0

I've never used a mei tai so I can't compare, but I've wrapped, used a sling, and a Boba, and the Boba wins hands down for ease of getting baby (when bigger) in and out and off you go. Tho -- I'm still trying to figure out the whole back carry with it, so I can't comment on that ease.

Tenley seems small(er) than my beast, so I think if you want something 2 shouldered, something padded and easy is the way to go, whichever way you choose. There's no right or wrong, just what you like and what she likes.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Someone showed me this site to compare different SSCs: http://www.theportablebaby.com/carrierfeatures.html It doesn't compare me tais, though.

This one has a short comparison of wraps, mei tais and slings but no SSCs: http://wrapyourbaby.com/kinds.htm The Resources link has links to other babywearing websites where you can get reviews and find used ones for sale.

Here's a site that has patterns for making your own baby carriers, among other things: http://www.sleepingbaby.net/jan/Baby/index.html

I have never used a SSC. I considered one but they are expensive and I had already bought a ring sling, pouch, wrap. My mei tai cost a lot less. It is Sean's favorite of all my carriers. Other than the wrap, it is the most comfortable for carrying baby for long shopping trips and hikes and that sort of thing. Sean carried Ethan in it while we hiked all over the Big Island, Hawaii. Back carries are relatively easy. The only thing about mine that I wish were different is that the shoulder straps were a bit longer so that I could bring them through the straps across my chest when in a back rucksack back carry so the straps wouldn't feel like they were pulling my shoulders back and slipping off.

I think baby carriers are like cloth diapers. You may have to try several before finding the one that works best for you. That can be difficult because of the cost. I like that rental site. That's a great idea. Plus, using the patterns from sleepingbaby.net if you can sew would save a lot of money, I'm sure.

What a great night of sleep for us! D slept for 4-5 hours for the first stretch! Maybe now that that 4th tooth finally broke through, he'll sleep better. Now if I could just get him to go down at 10 instead of midnight or 1 am. Ugh! Hopefully, when basketball is over, we can go back to a more reasonable schedule.

It's Friday and I have nowhere to go. I'm going to hang at home and try to get some cleaning done. My back feels better but still a little twingy so I'll have to be careful about what and how much I do and I how I move.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ I've been meaning to show you pics of Dylan in his OS dipes forever now and am finally getting around to it. I especially wanted to show you pics of him in the Wonderoos OS pockets that I use for night. They are very bulky, which is why I use them only at night. I didn't use one of those last night so all I have for now is him in one of my larger, thicker OS fitted dipes. To put it in perspective, he can wear this fitted dipe all night without any leaks. Actually, it barely feels wet.

Here's the front (obviously):



And here's the back:



I want to get a pic of him in one of his trimmer OS fitteds so you can see the difference. In general, though, OS dipes are going to be bulkier just by nature of their design and purpose. If you want a cloth diaper comparable in size to a sposie (which is getting harder and harder since the sposies are getting smaller and smaller), you'll have to get a sized diaper.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh how adorable he is!

What OS dipe do you use at night? I'm still skeptical of all mine, I don't think I could get away with any of the ones I currently have at night, especially not the blueberry or the FB. Those are damp on the outside after a long nap!! I think I'd need to break out some big guns to get through 9-10 hours. His morning 'sposie is HEAVILY soaked.

One of my new mama friends, who came for a playdate the other morning, gave me a GroVia OS and two Flip diapers, with a bunch of disposable liners, and a few regular inserts. The one I posted is the GroVia. My goodness, super trim. Awesome. I want to see though how these biodegradable liners are. I wonder how much they hold. He's down for a nap now with it on, so we shall see.

My new diapers that I ordered should arrive today!! I added 5 dipes to my stash this week, it is really going to help me keep up with the laundry. Now I should have plenty to get through more than 2 days of CD'ing before switching back to sposies while they wash/dry.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

the one he has on in that pick is from Piper's Closet http://hyenacart.com/stores/pipers-closet/index.php?info=677. The store is inactive now.







. She's on FB, though.

I usually use a Wonderoos stuffed with a premium PF with a hemp insert wrapped in it. That's the nice thing about using OS pockets at night, you can stuff them with as many layers as you need. You can always add a soaker or two to a fitted for extra absorbency as well. They are bulky but I'm able to get a 9 month sleeper on him if it's cold. when it's warm, he's just in the dipe and a shirt. since we bedshare, that's usually all he needs. it gets pretty warm under the covers with 4 bodies. I could probably use my other OS pockets as long as they are stuffed enough but I use those with just one Joey Bunz hemp insert when we go out. Those are pretty trim with just that.

I don't know if anyone makes Wonderoos anymore. Mine are really old and the elastic is pretty much shot in all of them but they still work great. Never had a leak or blow out or wicking. They are lined with microsuede instead of whatever the fuzzibunz are lined with. is it microfleece? i like the microsuede better. seems to stay drier.

How do those biodegradable liners work? Do you flush them or throw them in the trash?


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Yeah! on the checking how biodegradable they actually are. We had the kushies liners, which are flushable and biodegradable. We accidently sent one through the washer and the dryer one day-- and it came out intact!

We haven't used them since. No way you should be flushing something that will come outo f the washer/dryer intact!

Thanks for the comparison website, I'm going to go over it with DH. We're ideally looking for a carrier that both of us can use, so I guess that's a point against buckles etc.

Our local babywearing group has a lending library, so I want to take out a mei tai, but there's waiting lists, and I thikn you can only take 2 at a time, so obviously I want to make sure I choose wisely!

Anyways, I only have like a minute left, but I wanted to share that we had the BEST day ever yesterday! It's the only day in two months we've had where it was a good day all day long. She slept well night before last, then woke up, we nursed, played for a bit, and then got bundled and went out for a walk with the new stroller (I'm soooo out of shape, but the ride on that thing is so awesome!), where she napped for about 30-45 minutes, came home, had lunch and nursed, played lots, and then she napped again from 315 until 615, and I got to sleep for the last two hours as well. Then she got up, nursed, and we played again for a long time, put her in the sling and she walked around with me while I did some little tidying, she also played by herself for a while on the bed, and on her tummy mat, nursed, then from 9 until midnight she kind of nursed/played/dozed off and on, starting to get more fussy, finally fell asleep at about midnight, and slept so well all night. She woke up at 430, nursed (being flooded...) for FOUR minutes, and then fell back asleep right away, slept until 7, woke up and nursed, changed, went back to sleep, and slept again until like 930. It was glorious! We're going to be positive and hopeful for today as well. The key will be getting her a good nap- she's so much nicer when she's not tired, even though she fights it,.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Depending on you and your DH, buckles are actually the only thing DH wil use. He isn't too keen on wrapping. And we both use the Boba with a little adjusting.

Gabe let's me wrap him! Doesn't like the Boba, but tolerates wrapping! I am really happy about that, because he us a beast to carry.

Yay for good days and nights. I have no complaints about either.

Grr. I don't like long typing on the iPhone


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

We have a wrap and a homemade sling (I used the link you posted MW- turned out great!), but I want something that's just a bit easier and mostly, that I can do the back carry with. DH will use both of ours now, though he doesn't see the point of buying a new carrier. I like the fact that with the SSC's they seem easier to put her in/ take her out, because that's often the problem with her and carriers, is that by the time I have it on and ready for her, and then have to do all the shuffling to get her in, she's usually angry and screaming and then won't calm. I have been trying the kangaroo hold in the sling lately though, and she's a much bigger fan of that, but I can't seem to get the top rail tight enough to actually hold her in safely. I keep a hand in that area, and I've been stuffing her teddy bear in to help her from shifting! lol Not the best option, but it's working for now.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

JJ: with a ring sling I found it really helped to pull the top rail towards you (like horizontally) and up to tighten. the bottom rail down and away.

After going to some meetings and seeing the stash others have, I think DH doesn't mind the few I have, and understands a bit better about why you might want more than one or two (or 4) LOL

Such a beautiful day outside!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ Yay for a good day!

Men seem to like SSCs with buckles best. I think some may think the slings and wraps are too feminine. You can get SSCs that are quite adjustable so that, if there isn't too much difference in size, two people can use the same one. Of course, many of the SSCs except the Ergo have very feminine prints, which men may not like so much.

After pulling the ring sling tail as tight as I can, I pull each end/rail to tighten them up separately. I do sometimes have to do a bit of shifting and pulling with the top rail to get it tight enough for my comfort.

I found my menus and recipes from years ago. I have several weeks worth so I don't really need any more right now. The website is savingdinner.com. It has changed a lot, though, and doesn't seem to have the same options as before. I couldn't find any choices for types of menus, like meat, vegetarian, vegan, etc. I think the person only sells books now. I was excited because there was a banner for gluten free, paleo meals but I couldn't find a sample. I'm not going to pay for something before I know what it consists of.

Oh, and I think I got all the cat urine smell out of my bed. I threw the comforter away, by the way. It's way too big to get clean enough in my machine and I hate dry cleaning. I zipped off the mattress cover and cleaned both sides and the inside of the mattress with vinegar.

Back to mopping that we were discussing a while ago. I've tried just about every mopping system there is, sponge mop and bucket, that vacuum/mop flip-it thingie, steam mops and a mop like the Swiffer but with reusable pads and a bottle that I can fill with anything. I use the Swiffer wet jet sometimes but I like the reusable mop the best right now. I fill the bottle with vinegar water and I think it does a better job that Swiffer without having to worry about nasty chemicals. I use vinegar to clean just about everything.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Oh JJ, yay for a good day!!

These liners are grovia, they say compostable and biodegradable, but the elastic hasn't been tested. Eh. Better than a pain old Huggies, at least.

I don't know, there's a, learning curve I'm sure, but lining up the insert is tricky with the flip diapers. I like the grovia shell better so far.

Agreed, men like buckles and structure.

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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I use gDiaper disposable inserts inside my flips. there is no elastic, it's just a big rectangle.

I was not a grovia fan, esp their velcro.

Mop: w/ swiffer wet jet or similiar is probably done once a week or so. With an actual mop? that's like a couple times a year.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Ooh, I like the Velcro on the grovia so far. gDiapers, yes, those inserts were good, and flushable. I don't have any of those, but I'd buy those again.

Do any of you have hard wood floors? I need something to clean them, but what? I bought some stupid orange glo thing a few years back and used it once. The fake orange smell was obnoxious.

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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Mop: w/ swiffer wet jet or similiar is probably done once a week or so. With an actual mop? that's like a couple times a year.


Yeah, I can't remember the last time I used a mop and bucket now. I just mop with sprayer one, take the pad off and throw it in the washing machine. It's so quick and easy that I can do it almost every day.

Here's Dylan in one of his fitted OS diapers.





I don't know if you can tell the difference. It's hard to get the same perspective with photos. This one is more trim. I have no idea what size regular pants would fit over it, though, since I only use my knit longies that stretch a lot.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Once you aren't snapping down anymore, OS diapers fit pretty trim 

love the pics, they are so cute!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

These (Muttaqins) fit really trim even when on the smallest setting and they start at 8 lbs. I still have it snapped down one time. I don't snap the Wonderoos down at all anymore because when he sits up in them I see crack.







They are still quit bulky. They are pretty big diapers. But then, I stuff those pretty full for nighttime. Oh, the Piper's Closet and Wonderoos start at 10 lbs., I believe.

I don't recommend Muttaqins anymore, though, because of the trouble I've had with them. They were some of the ones that disintegrated within a few months. I talked to a friend of mine who makes diapers and she said there was a bad batch of bamboo going around a while ago. Some people wouldn't use but I guess others did because it was cheaper. Once she told me that I decided to contact the maker and ask if she would replace the snap-in soakers since that's what disintegrated. I also asked if she could make some more for some used diapers I bought and offered to pay for those. I never got a response.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

look what i found! http://glutenfreesoyfreevegan.wordpress.com/


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Once you aren't snapping down anymore, OS diapers fit pretty trim


Agreed!

I have the two Flip dipes, one velcro and one snaps. On the snap one, I need to snap down one row for the rise. For the velcro, I don't. Strange, huh?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> look what i found! http://glutenfreesoyfreevegan.wordpress.com/


Oh how awesome!! Nice!!

Chris's flight home was delayed. UGH.

Honestly, this was the longest week of my life. Idk how you mamas do it w/o your DH's or partners home at least some of the time.

I took a short nap with Finn while Nora was at school and I'm pouring myself a nice glass of wine now with my dinner.

I got my BG Freetime and it's SO CUTE. And my FB OS in black? If a diaper can be sexy, this is it!! It's fantastic looking. I cannot wait to put in on Finn. I also got one more Bumkins AIO b/c it was on sale. I'll post pics when/if I can.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

All this diaper talk has me missing Ava's fluff! Can't wait to get home and back to her big cloth booty! I love our snap Flips but when I take them off in the morning, there is definitely the microfiber stink. I usually let her air out a few minutes before putting a new dipe on her.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

With something like the Flip, how well do they work if you double the liner? I changed Finn after his nap, and the cover was damp, but I only had one liner in. I think he's just a heavy wetter.

Ok - I put together two pics:



1ht

Annie, how is Ava recovering? Any idea when she will be strong enough to go home? Hopefully soon!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ I was going to ask the same thing.

Carrie ~ They look very similar but I can see much more of a difference at this age than when they were younger.

How do you get those photos together like that? I'd like to do that with my 4 boys. Do you use a program on your computer?


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Baby_Cakes, the Flip liners do feel damp if DD has been in them many hours like at night but all my covers feel that way if she has soaked through the insert/PF. I have 5 Flip covers so I just lay the damp one aside and it is dry before the next diaper change. Has anyone tried the Infantino mei tei that is sold at like BRU and Target? Wonder how it compares to less mainstream ones? Oh Baby_Cakes, what do you think of the Freetime? AFM, looks like we're going home today! Haven't put anything on FB yet because I don't want to jinx it but one of her cardiologists came in this morning and said she looked great and we should leave! Discharge is a slow process though so probably won't be home until this afternoon.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

ABCs are pretty basic. The construction and how they work are the same. I think it's pretty cool that BRU sells that. I haven't seen it in the store, but our local store is pretty small and doesn't carry a lot of things. I checked it out online. I like the padded straps (mine has padded straps) but some people don't because it's less adjustable. It says it has lumbar support but I couldn't see what that was. It looked like maybe there was a pad that goes across your belly in between you and baby. Maybe that's it. that sounds nice but i don't think it's necessary. i have low back problems but have not had a problem with my ABC without specific lumbar support.








for going home!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

They are definitely looking less and less alike as Finn grows!!

I use photobucket, and make a collage. You can do it with as many pictures as you want, in different shapes and sizes.

Ok, gtk that most covers feel damp. I just thought maybe I was doing something incorrectly.








I hope she does come home today! That's wonderful news!

AFUs - Finn is sleeping horrible lately. Wah. Where is my good sleeper? I want him baaaack. DH is at least home now (yay) and can help. I'm tired and need more coffee!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Ok, gtk that most covers feel damp. I just thought maybe I was doing something incorrectly.


yeah, none of them are waterproof, only water resistant. the only way to avoid that is to stuff a lot and/or change often. my wonderoos don't usually feel damp on the outside in the morning aven when the dipe is soaked but i really stuff those things. i got pics of D wearing one this morning so you can see how big it is. i'll get them up asap.

going to check out photobucket. i have an account but haven't used it recently.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Here they are. They came in pairs.










D in a Wonderoo


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

They all look so different! Amazing!!

Did you all know baby sleep positioners were recalled? I went to Buy Buy Baby with the goal of finding something to keep finnley from moving sideways in his cosleeper and getting stuck. The guy working there said they can't carry them any more bc they were recalled. I was bummed. I had something from when Nora was a baby, but I must have gotten rid of it. I'll have to rig something. I did buy him a sleep sack tho. Maybe he just doesn't like the swaddle anymore.

My new dipes are drying, but as soon as I use them I'll report back. I can't wait!!

Chris watched the kids this afternoon and I went and got Starbucks and did that shopping. It felt so good to be out by myself!

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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Carrie-- we have a sleep positioner, but we also use magic bags against her back/tummy sometimes and that works too! And the weight of it makes her feel like there's someone there with her, or at least I think that's why she sleeps better with them!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

You think, Carrie? I think Kellen looks like Ryan (although not too much since they have different fathers) and Dylan looks like Ethan. Sometimes I look at Dylan and get a little freaked at how much he looks like Ethan. It's like I'm not looking at a new baby but just Ethan again. I can't explain it. Kellen's personality is very much like Ryan's, too. I hope that means Dylan's will be more like Ethan's because I don't know if I can handle another high energy child.







He already seems like it because he's more of a high needs baby like Ethan whereas Kellen was much more independent.

Yeah, I read those sleep positioners had been recalled a while ago. We had one for Ethan but never used it since he ended up in our bed all the time.

Oh, did you know that if you buy Starbucks coffee from the store, you can take the empty bag to a Starbucks shop and get a free cup of coffee? I thought of you when I read that.


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> You think, Carrie? I think Kellen looks like Ryan (although not too much since they have different fathers) and Dylan looks like Ethan.


That's what I see!

I should post photos of DH and I and Tenley. Family keeps fighting over who she looks more like.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> That's what I see!
> 
> I should post photos of DH and I and Tenley. Family keeps fighting over who she looks more like.


The consensus here is that Ryan and Kellen look more like me and Ethan and Dylan look more like Sean. Ethan looks almost exactly like Sean as a child, although it's hard to see in Sean the man.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I agree with the consensus! Now that I'm on the comp and not the phone, I see what you're saying!!!

I didn't know that about starbucks coffee! GTK!!

JJ - what are these magic bags of which you speak?


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Sorry I always forget it's a Canada thing. It's basically just a brand name of hot packs/ rice socks.

Magic Bag

We don't heat it up for her, but just the weight of it pressing against her back and the fact that it's malleable seems to help.

Found somebody today who wants to buy my FB dipes and the bummis covers. Yay! I'll have $85 to put towards other stuff for her, likely more one size or medium diapers.


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

Man you guys are a chatty bunch...I can't keep up!

I had "worst mommy moment" last night! Talk about carriers and all. DH had to take DS to hockey and he was wearing E in a fleece pouch. He attempted to take the pouch off and put it over my head and E fell halfway out. I caught him but I wasn't expecting it and I nearly went into shock. I started balling and felt so anxious that I didn't even go out to my friend's house for tea (with E) as planned when DH got home. I kept replaying the scene in my head until this morning. Worst feeling ever. Even DH cried when he got back from hockey. E was sleeping on my chest and I look over and he's watching us and getting all teared up thinking about E being hurt or dying from the potential fall. Needless to say, that will never happen again. I'm trying to be grateful for his protection. I can still see the image in my head of him going heads first out of the sling









JJ- I'm with you on so many things in your recent posts (even the rice bag thing which I thought of doing too!). The postpartum sweating--I hear you! Ugh! My deodorant hardly works these days. It's so gross. I do try to shower every day. I take 1-2 minute showers while he fusses in the bouncy seat. Tenley and E are very much alike. I basically do what you do all day too. I feel like a prisoner some days and go a little nut-so but other days, I'm happy to just sit and stare at my baby--I think those days I'm too damn tired to feel overwhelmed! I definitely don't get anything done around the house even wearing E. I can't bend down to pick up toys or do too much cleaning or make too much noise. It's frustrating but this time goes so fast. Oh and don't make any family planning decisions in the early months. DH had his V when our last was 4 months old. That was real dumb of us to make a decision at that time in our lives. Of course we were DONE at that point! Who isn't DONE when they are severely sleep-deprived and overwhelmed by the needs of a new baby! Of course we went on to reverse it to have E. Last week, we agreed we won't make any BC decisions until E is at least 2 years old. We haven't ruled out a 6th but at this point, I'm done! LOL At least I think I am. I mean really, this has hit me so hard this time. I went 3 years with 8-9 hours of sleep! I got way too use to my autonomy! But we have 5 already! And every baby is different. My first was soooo easy. Hardly cried...was just happy all the time! My second---not so much. She was way worse than E. My third was so-so and E is somewhere in the so-so range too. At least he's consolable....just give him the boob or wrap him up and bounce! Bounce bounce bounce!

Carrie/Cloth dipes- I just got some Freetimes but they seem so bulky! I think I like the Elementals with a fleece liner the most. I'm going to try a FB Elite and a Tot Bot AIO on E on Monday. I think the Elementals and some kind of pocket with make up my next stash. I did a little bit of everything for the newborn stage and I really like AIOs and pocket. I just don't feel the prefold/fitted/wool love. Takes too long to and he flips out 90% of the time when I change his diaper. Snappi'ing takes too much time for me too. My dd's friend's mother owns a cloth dipe business...www.everythingbirth.com She lives 3 miles from my house! Woot!

I love seeing all the babes...JJ..can you post a pic of Tenley! I want to see her!

Here's a pic of my boy looking at his Daddy! Sorry for the bad quality. We were going to take newborn pics the other day and he broke out in baby acne after being sweating while co-sleeping....it's getting worse (he's had two other sweating episodes). Man, he's already gained over a pound since birth. If this acne doesn't pass soon, he's going to be too big for "newborn" pics! He'll be a chunker!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

AWW! He's so cute!!!

I'm sorry you had that scare. Ugh, I know that awful feeling you get, replaying things in your mind. ((hugs))

Once he's bigger the Freetime won't be so bulky. We were just saying a few posts ago that the OS diapers, especially AIOs, are bulky snapped down.

Guys, idk wtf is going on! Finn isn't sleeping well at night at all. He used to wake 2-3 times and go back in the cosleeper. Now he's up every hour or two, and won't go back in the cosleeper!!! He also used to at least sleep until 730 -- now he's getting up an hour earlier. When does DST begin?!? It must be developmental, but UGH UGH. I need more sleep!! Going to hit the coffee hard today.

I'm supposed to go to a playdate today but I'm really not looking fwd to it. After we made the date, the girl tried to rope me into letting her do a facial for her Mary Kay business. I was really put off. I thought she invited us to get the kids all together, but then her true colors came out. I had to tell her that I really wasn't interested in doing that (I mean, I'm going to have both kids with me!!) and if I wanted to have a facial done I'd come to a party on my own time (like never, b/c I don't want a facial done). Anyway, she didn't have a problem with it, but now there's a bad taste in my mouth over it. Sigh.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Kinder ~ So cute! I know that scary feeling, too. Sometimes thoughts of past mistakes go through my head over and over and I can't get them out. It's horrible.

All these new diapers I've never heard of. I like the modern cloth diapers are becoming more normal. It's really cool that you can buy them at some brick and mortar stores. Did I tell you all the consignment store I like sells new fuzzibunz and happy heiny's? They even had some hemp soakers/inserts. I was so excited to see hemp! Too bad I don't need any. But...it's all pocket PUL diapers. I get that. Those probably have the most appeal to the masses because they more closely resemble sposies and can easily be used under store bought clothes. I wish more people would feel the fitted and wool love because it's getting so hard to find good ones these days.









Carrie ~ Maybe she thought the kids would occupy each other and that would give you a few minutes to relax and just wanted to give you a facial for that purpose, because she knows how hard it is for a SAHM to a baby to get any time to relax.

I won't be surprised if Dylan is crawling before Sean comes home. He gets up on his hands and knees every time I put him on his stomach. He can get up and stay like that for a few seconds and rock back and forth now rather than sort of getting up but still having his legs straight and just sliding backwards. I really need to get a gate to go between the living room and kitchen. I cannot give Dylan free reign of the house because the boys leave stuff all over the place and I am not going to spend every waking moment following him around. It's a big opening, probably at least 6 feet wide, so I don't know if I can get a gate from the store here.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Check on Amazon. They have nice gates that could block that opening. Yay for almost crawling!! Wow!!

See, I just don't think so. She is just looking for an angle to sell her mk stuff. I should have seen it coming but it didn't cross my mind. She isn't a sahm, she works ft and sells mk. I just really want irl friends!!! I'm still going bc I hope we can still have a good time.

The Freetime is a nice diaper!! It's not any more bulky then a stuffed pocket.

ETA - mw: like this

http://www.amazon.com/Summer-Infant-Stylish-Secure-Expansion/dp/B001N44UXA/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&qid=1327858550&sr=8-19

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kindermama*
> 
> I had "worst mommy moment" last night! Talk about carriers and all. DH had to take DS to hockey and he was wearing E in a fleece pouch. He attempted to take the pouch off and put it over my head and E fell halfway out. I caught him but I wasn't expecting it and I nearly went into shock. I started balling and felt so anxious that I didn't even go out to my friend's house for tea (with E) as planned when DH got home. I kept replaying the scene in my head until this morning. Worst feeling ever.
> 
> ...


*hugs* Take comfort in the fact that it happens to all of us! DH was holding T above his head last night, just fooling around and playing, and she squirmed and totally slipped big time. He caught her, and if not, my arms were there instantly to catch her, but it took me a couple minutes to catch my breath and stop feeling lightheaded from the adrenalin. We're all good mamas, mistakes happen.

DH gets credit for the magic bag. We don't do it all the time, but it helps if she's super fussy. We've actually started trying to get her attached to a lovey as well, hoping it will help her to sleep alone for naps, etc, and I've noticed that she will soothe herself with it- it's just this small pink bear, but if she wakes up, she'll start stroking it's head or arm or whatever. So cute!

I've always had a problem with deodorant/antiperspirant, not that it doesn't work, but my underarm skin is so sensistive to it, and it seems like if I use it more than one day in a row, my skin gets sooo dry and itchy. I've tried natural deodorants, and they work for a little bit, and then I get to the point where I actually feel dirtier after putting them on, because they leave a filmy coating it seems like. I keep trying, but no luck on something that works well and I can wear every day-- hence the everyday showers! lol

And yeah, it's hard too now that DH has gone back to work, and that was kind of the 'changeover' of "It's ok that you're not doing anything" to "ok... I got nothing at all done today and I feel horrible. For the most part when he's at work, I'm solely watching her, and anything I get done is bonus. Once he gets home, he relaxes for 20 minutes or so, and then takes her and I do some cleaning and stuff to catch up. It gives him time with her, and I can get stuff done so much faster when I'm not worried about waking her up or banging her into the cupboard door while I'm putting away dishes! lol

Speaking of getting stuff done though-- I tried putting her down in the crib to sleep yesterday, and she slept wonderfully, and then again today for 45 minutes this morning. I think we're going to start putting her down for all her naps in there. I think it helps her to differentiate between naps in the crib, where she knows she's alone, but I'll come get her if she needs, and sleeping in our room (in bed or bassinette) where she expects us to be in the room with her the whole time. I'll keep trying and see how it goes, but so far so good!

It seems like she hit 8 weeks, and she's a different baby now. Such a relief. I'm sleeping, I feel like I'm able to get more done, and she's sitting in her swing now for 10 minutes at a time. She's actually responsive to us, and we spend time playing and cuddling instead of her either being sleeping/nursing/fussing. It's so wonderful! Definitely not making any long term decisions yet. I figure anything before 6 months is totally temporary thoughts. After 6 months I'll start taking him more seriously, but I think it would be 5 years at least before we'd do anything permanent. I've never even been on BC before, so I'm not running out for one of us to alter our bodies yet.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Guys, idk wtf is going on! Finn isn't sleeping well at night at all. He used to wake 2-3 times and go back in the cosleeper. Now he's up every hour or two, and won't go back in the cosleeper!!!


With us, I found that the key for me is not falling asleep while she's nursing. I wait until she's done, and then she gets 2-3 minutes to cuddle, and then she has to go into the bassinet right away. If I doze, and so she gets the chance to nurse, cuddle, nurse a minute more, cuddle, doze, nurse, etc... then she won't let me put her down again. She needs that definite end to the nursing or she will demand to nurse/sleep cycle all night long, and then in the morning both of us are exhausted. I was doing that for a while, where I would doze off while she was nursing, and then wake up half an hour or an hour later, and try to put her into the bassinet, and she would -not- have it. I have to make sure I'm awake the whole time now, even if it means turning a light on, and grabbing a book. It means that I'm more awake intitally, but because there's an end to the nursing session, and then I get my bed back, I get more sleep overall.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Those probably have the most appeal to the masses because they more closely resemble sposies and can easily be used under store bought clothes. I wish more people would feel the fitted and wool love because it's getting so hard to find good ones these days.


I think a lot of it is price too. I wanted to use shorties and longies, but the price was just too prohibitive. I think if you have more control over the budget, or if your partner is more on board, but for us, DH was supportive of the cloth diapering, but there's no way I could have convinced him to buy several pairs of "$50 pants". Obviously i know there's more to it than that, but for him, that's what he sees. And it's hard to bring the price down for wool because there's so much time and cost that goes into making them.

I will try ot post photos later! I've got a bunch I need to finish going through today or tomorrow.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

JJ, I'm so glad you are having an easier time with Miss Tenley! It sounds like she has definite opinions about what she likes and doesn't like. My DD is that way as well. It can definitely make things more challenging but also more fun!

Baby_Cakes, is the Freetime the same thickness as the 4.0?

MW, I agree w/JJ. I'd love to do wool covers but they are expensive! Since you know how to knit, the cost is probably a lot easier to handle. For me, I love the Flips and BG 4.0s because of their versatility. I know that DD will be able to use them for a long time. The PFs and covers that I bought are nearing their end of life because they are getting too small. Also, the Flips and BGs are more absorbent. I forgot to put DD in a Flip last night after I gave her the diuretic...whooooo boy! The PF was no match for lasix pee!

Kindermama, that's one cute boy you have there! I've been meaning to ask you, have you ever given the RR for kids to any of your little ones? If so, how much do you give? Do you put it in milk?

AFM, we're home and it was so nice to sleep in my bed last night! I'm at work now and DD is home with DH. It's the first time in over a week that I haven't been on guard. It's nice to have something else to focus on for a few hours! So while we were in the hospital, DD got used to falling asleep in the bed by herself since I couldn't hold her for so many days. Now she doesn't want to fall asleep with me holding her. She will fuss and fight until I lay her in her bed. She wants me to stay there though and hold her hand. It makes me sad though because I like laying down with her or having her fall asleep in my arms! I'm hoping that once her incision heals, she will be more comfortable falling asleep while I hold her. Or at least tolerate it some when I want to hold her. She has also picked up the lovey habit while we were in the hospital. I have these little organic cotton washcloths that a friend gave me and I used them as breast pads and also as burp cloths when feeding her. I had a bunch with me at the hospital and somehow, she started holding one when she was going to sleep and now she likes to hold one up to her face or cover her face with it.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

yeah, carrie, that's the kind of gate i need, with a swing door. i've got a catalog i can order one from but want to check the store here first. i like to support the local stores if i can, even the big chains, before mail order or online. supporting the local economy and, a more selfish reason, to keep the limited choices we have.

the early baby days, at least the first year and more probably the 2nd, too, is not the best time to make long term decisions about birth control. it really irks me that HCPs push BC at the 6 week PP check when parents are in such a vulnerable state.

JJ ~ Already knit woolies in hand-dyed yarn can be very pricey. That's why I started knitting my own. I can get a pair of longies for D in size medium with 1 skein of hand-dyed, which costs me around $24. That's a bit pricey for a pair of baby pants but a lot cheaper than buying them already knit. You can make them really cheap if you want. One skein of Paton's or Lion Brand wool will make a couple of smaller sized soakers or 1 pair of small pants with some left over. They only cost about $5. That's cheaper than new baby clothes. And, a lot of people get by with only 2 in each size, although I like to have at least 4. So, you're looking at maybe $20 at the most depending on what you are making and the size. It really doesn't have to be expensive.

I once worked out how much I would make if I started selling knit woolies. I think the going rate is about twice the cost of the yarn. With the amount of hours it takes to make a pair of longies, knitters make less than minimum wage and that's not including the cost to put them for sale online. If it takes a day to make one pair, subtract the cost of the yarn, and you are left with about $3/hour.

Annie ~ So glad Ava is home!









Carrie ~ You inspired me to make a photo album for each of my boys. I've always wanted an album of each with one picture for each month of their first year. In the process, I found this photo of Ethan at 4 months. Look at huge he was!



Here's a link to my photo sharing site: http://coconuts.kodakgallery.com.

I wanted to share some photos with you guys but there were way too many for me to post or pic just a few. There are a ton of photos on there. I won't be insulted if you don't get through all of them.


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> It seems like she hit 8 weeks, and she's a different baby now. Such a relief. I'm sleeping, I feel like I'm able to get more done, and she's sitting in her swing now for 10 minutes at a time. She's actually responsive to us, and we spend time playing and cuddling instead of her either being sleeping/nursing/fussing. It's so wonderful! Definitely not making any long term decisions yet. I figure anything before 6 months is totally temporary thoughts. After 6 months I'll start taking him more seriously, but I think it would be 5 years at least before we'd do anything permanent. I've never even been on BC before, so I'm not running out for one of us to alter our bodies yet.
> 
> With us, I found that the key for me is not falling asleep while she's nursing. I wait until she's done, and then she gets 2-3 minutes to cuddle, and then she has to go into the bassinet right away. If I doze, and so she gets the chance to nurse, cuddle, nurse a minute more, cuddle, doze, nurse, etc... then she won't let me put her down again.


remind me again...did you have trouble putting her down in the bassinet before? I'm just looking for a shred of hope that sometime in the next month or so, I'll might be able to put E down for a nap...

after a good nursing and rocking of course. He's glued to me or DH all day and night long.

MW- holy moly, what a chub-a-love! I cannot believe he's 4 months old in that pic! I agree with that it's non-sense that they want us to make birth control decisions at 6wpp. I can't believe Dylan is up and rocking

on his hands and knees already! Time flies!

Annie- yes, I have many times. Definitely give it in breastmilk, water or juice. I would just put a drop in and have baby sip up to 4 times in a day.

AFM- is it normal that E still sleeps most of the day? He has up to 2-3 alert periods during the day but within an hour or so, he's looking to nurse to sleep again. He's starting to coo at us a bit so he's aware....but really sleepy.Of course, I'm talking restless sleep----maybe that's why he's so eager to get to sleep???? He's 4 weeks old today!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Look at that fat baby!!! Omg those THIGHS!! Gorgeous!!!

I'd say yes, the Freetime is pretty much the same as the 4.0. It fit him well, with 9 mo pants (the pants were just a tad short, but I think he's outgrowing them in length anyways). Here is a profile-ish pic.



So I went to the playdate and it was fun! She and I are just different in what we do -- she's pg and thinks I'm weird for homebirthing, wants her epidural, wants to bf b/c it didn't work with her first baby, etc. So, we chatted. Hopefully I'm just a good influence. I mean, to each her own, I support whatever makes a person happy. Nora and her daughter had a really good time together playing, and Finn was mellow as always. So it was good times.

Her DH works for Parents magazine and is always getting free stuff, I guess to review. They gave me a Charlie Banana OS dipe! For free! It's cute! They won't cloth diaper so I gladly took it!!

Annie - probably not what you want to advise on, but HOW do you get her to fall asleep not on you or nursing? I want to know. I've never been able to do that, and I'm curious how! I'm glad you are back to "routine" at work and able to focus on other things. You are one strong mama!! So -- she's done with surgeries now, correct??

I'm with you, JJ. If I fall asleep nursing, he's in the bed. He's in it for the night, it's just how it goes. But this week even sitting up and holding him, popping him off, and going to lay him down in the cosleeper he won't settle. He is still swaddled w/one arm out, but something is just UP. It must be developmental, idk. I mean, I know this too shall pass, but the exhaustion makes me so snippy with DD. And DH. Ugh. I know I just have to get thru it.

Kinder - YES! Totally normal to have that sleepy of a 4 week old.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yes, totally normal for a 4 week to be sleeping most of the time. I remember complaining about that with Dylan. I wanted to play with him but all he did was eat and sleep.

Sleep deprivation makes me very snippy, too. I wish kids understood that.

mary kay and parents mag, idk if i could be friends with them. too mainstream.









i'm addicted at looking at my old photos now. look at these.

this is me and ryan as he was leaving to live with his dad. that's why i don't look very happy.



and these are just more photos of ryan with his little brothers. i love showing off his hair.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Look at that fat baby!!! Omg those THIGHS!! Gorgeous!!!
> 
> ...


Well, when we first got to the hospital last week before her surgery, I would just hold her in the recliner like I would do at home and she would go to sleep. One afternoon DH was in the room and he was asleep in the recliner so I laid her in the crib and then bent over so I was kind of laying beside her. She likes to hold my hand with my palm facing her and she grabs on to my fingers or she rubs my hand so I gave her my hand to hold. And she just sucked on her paci and went to sleep. Once she was out of her surgery and I couldn't hold her, I would do something similar to help her get to sleep. Now that we are home, I just lay her in the crib and then lay down on my side of the bed and reach over and give her my hand. She holds on and falls asleep. It wouldn't work if it was a traditional crib with all four sides. But we had already gotten to the point before we went in to the hospital where I could lay down with her not asleep and she would just suck her paci and fall asleep in my arms. I think if we were back 6 weeks ago or so and she needed to be completely asleep before I laid her down, that wouldn't work.

How do you like the Charlie Bananas dipe? I looked at those before DD was born but couldn't find enough reviews on it to be comfortable getting them.

Glad you had fun on the playdate! I have some IRL friends that are like that. They just do things differently. They aren't bad people but we have different ideas. As long as they don't critique me for my choices, no problems there. I'm like you, I just hope I'm being a positive influence for the choices I make.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> . I think if we were back 6 weeks ago or so and she needed to be completely asleep before I laid her down, that wouldn't work.
> 
> How do you like the Charlie Bananas dipe? I looked at those before DD was born but couldn't find enough reviews on it to be comfortable getting them.
> ...


Isn't she like 6 weeks older than Finn!? LOL. Maybe we're just going through a rough patch, then. Oh lordy I hope so!

The dipe itself is *nice*! I can't wait to wash it and see how it performs!! It looks and feels a lot like a fuzzibunz, but w/o the adjustable elastic.

Yes - as long as they don't judge me for what I do, I'm just happy to chat and share stories and see what's different. You know?

MW - Ryan's hair. Oh my gosh. Those curls! I don't blame you for being upset he cut it, lol! I love looking at old photos. I have none of myself b/c I cut ties with my family. I did contact an aunt and she send me some pics from the '80s when I was little (Nora's age) so I could show Nora. It was nice to see.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I hope you all know I was joking about not being friends with those people. When you mentioned Parents magazine, it made me think of all the times I've peaked at it at a doctor's office. I am always so angered by the articles.









I used to pay $80 every 3 months to get my hair to look like Ryan's back in 1990, the year before he was born. He had stick straight hair until he hit puberty. Then, boom! It curled into ringlets like that. I am so jealous!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I know you're joking, but I'm not sure I completely disagree. They're very mainstream. We really don't have a whole lot in common.







she and I knew each other from middle school and reconnected on fb.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

*I* know that you were just joking MW! Ryan's hair was gorgeous curly...so much volume!

Baby_Cakes, hopefully your DS will turn the corner soon. It really was a gradual thing. I started to realize that I could lay down w/DD when she was sleepy but not asleep and she would just snuggle up to me and go to sleep. I'm so glad she started that before the surgery because the hospital stay would have been even more hellish if she couldn't go to sleep out of arms or eating because there were a number of days where she couldn't take anything by mouth!

O.K. so I was just reading about some of the Aveeno baby stuff being recalled because of high bacteria levels. Somehow I had missed the fact until now that Aveeno is owned by J&J. I've been considering switching to Mustela but I can't figure out who their parent company is. MW, do you know or does anyone else know?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ That's cool that you reconnected on FB. I reconnected with a bunch of people from middle and high school on FB but I could not be IRL friends with them. We are way too different now. Getting together once or twice a year in a completely non-family setting would work.

It just occurred to me that maybe Finn is getting ready to crawl. He's mastering sitting so that's the next step. That would explain the restlessness.

I don't know the parent company, if any, of Mustela. I used to use Aveeno oatmeal bath for Ethan's sensitive skin but got turned off by Aveeno a while ago because of some the ingredients in the products. Can't remember exactly what now. I only use CA Baby and other WAHM companies for skin care products for my kids. But, I don't really use much. I have soap and shampoo but they only use it occasionally. Most of the time, it's just water for a bath or shower. I've never used lotions.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Here's something, http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=33405241. Looks like they may be their own company.

http://www.expanscience.com/en/legal-notices


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

He may be. He isn't pushing up on his arms but he's scrunching on his knees and face planting. When he falls forward from sitting, he quickly twists onto his tummy by himself.

I think maybe I'm over managing him. I only know how to deal with a high needs baby bc that's how Nora was. Tonight I put his jammies on, walked away to get his swaddler, and came back to the living room and he was asleep splayed out on the floor. I didn't know what to do. I left him there with Dh to put Nora to bed. The cat jumped and woke him, but who knows how long he would have slept there? Maybe I'm trying too hard. I really don't know!!

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

After not being able to bathe DD for the past week or so, I don't know how people say they don't bathe their babies for like months at a time. She was GROSS after a couple of days! She sweats a lot and gets all sticky. And then when she was able to eat, milk goes everywhere and she's stinky from sour milk. I tried wiping her off with just a wet wash cloth and that seemed to make it worse! I don't usually put lotion on her but she needs to have some soap to get all the sticky stinky off. I've also looked at the CA baby stuff. Guess I just need to get some and try it.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> He may be. He isn't pushing up on his arms but he's scrunching on his knees and face planting. When he falls forward from sitting, he quickly twists onto his tummy by himself.
> I think maybe I'm over managing him. I only know how to deal with a high needs baby bc that's how Nora was. Tonight I put his jammies on, walked away to get his swaddler, and came back to the living room and he was asleep splayed out on the floor. I didn't know what to do. I left him there with Dh to put Nora to bed. The cat jumped and woke him, but who knows how long he would have slept there? Maybe I'm trying too hard. I really don't know!!
> Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk


I was going to comment on your post on FB that maybe you just need to give him a chance to put himself to sleep? The other morning in the hospital, I could tell that DD was tired but she was all hopped up on Zofran and not ready to actually go to sleep yet. I was beyond exhausted and needed to rest some. So I put her in the crib with her favorite toy and I got in the recliner next to the crib to put my feet up. I dozed a bit and noticed that I wasn't hearing her babble as much. Her eyes were starting to get heavy and then a few minutes later, she had fallen asleep.









Oh I meant to tell you guys that DD's cardiologist and I both agreed that we are not going to do her next Synagis dose and maybe not do it at all again. She won't need it next season and since she's had such a bad reaction to it, it doesn't seem worth it for two more shots. Also, since she was on bypass for her surgery, she can't get any vaccines for the next 4-6 weeks. I thought that was pretty interesting. I wasn't going to do anymore right now anyway but I thought it was interesting that her nurse specifically told me not to get any shots right now.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ I'm just thinking in terms of Dylan. Finn is only 2 weeks younger, right? He seems to following right along with Dylan. Dylan was very fussy and keeping crazy hours last week, started sitting up and trying to crawl and things have settled a bit.

Annie ~ Have you tried bathing Ava in just water without soap? I don't not bathe Dylan. I just don't use soap. Water washes everything off if he can soak long enough. He's not stinky or sticky after a bath without soap. Maybe there's something about being in the hospital that makes her need to be bathed more.









I was told many years ago by a naturopath to hydrate the skin from the inside out. lotions are really not good for the skin no matter how natural they are. soaps and shampoos dry out the skin by washing off the healthy, natural oils. so, if you stop using soaps to wash your body, your skin will restore itself.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

I read along - and never answer. I am a stalker!!









AnnieA - I am sooo happy you guys are home! I hope Ava doesn't need anything else for a long, long, loooooong time







It actually doesn't surprise me at all that Ava is not supposed to get any shots for awhile. They are really hard even on a healthy body - much less one that has been through something so major.

My babies start going to bed by themselves at about 6ish months. I just wait until they are tired but not OVERtired. With my non nursing haters I would nurse them and then carry them upstairs and lay them down. With A - I had to nurse her in my bed - but I would still not *wait* until she was sleeping. Sometimes she fell asleep, but not usually.

*disclaimer* sometimes they do make noise. I don't necessarily run to get them. I don't consider what they do *crying it out* because they are never actually crying, and if they DO start crying I will go get them. HOWEVER, they do talk, whine, etc. to themselves.

All three of my kids have been able to put themselves to sleep by 6ish months - and they are ALL very different personality and needs wise. PLUS they go through rough patches even after they have been self-soothing. I remember when M was teething at like 15 months I would be up for two hours at a time some nights









My baby is so much older than all of yours! She is almost 10 months old









MW - Ryan's hair is beautiful! Sheesh. I have never had a super chunky baby. My sister's last baby was 22 pounds at 7 months! Craaaazy. My husbands paternal side of the family is Italian. His dad is only 5'3" and his paternal grandma was only 4'11" or something like that. He is 5'10" - but I am glad we have all girls.............

How does it go with Ryan's dad?

I sometimes wonder how it will play out will K's bio-mom. The last time we heard from her was a little over two years ago. She filed some kind of court thing. We decided to put the past behind us, she would sign her rights over, and we would come to a signed agreement (through the courts) that she would get pictures and letters X amount of times a year.

The only stipulation was that she had to start writing K letters so they could get to know each other that way (K doesn't know her at all). She called a few times wanting to just talk to her, and when we said "no, you need to start with letters" she stopped contacting us at all.







Whatev, not my problem. I have done all I can for K and think of her as my own, so she won't have any beef with me!


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

oh, I forgot

AnnieA - I am one of the people who can go weeks without giving my *babies* baths. As soon as they start crawling, feeding themselves though, its all over!! I have to bathe A more than any of my other kids now.

I don't usually put lotion on (my kids or me)........mostly from laziness. My hands were hurting me though, because I was washing them so much at work and with the baby. I started putting extra virgin olive oil on them and HOLY COW! A miracle I tell ya! Of course, that stuff is expensive - but if you have extra dry skin for whatever reason. It is totally worth it. Hmmmm - I might try olive oil on J's face. She has little bumps on her face like I get on my arms........I bet she is gonna hate that when she gets older. Crap.









Huh, now that I think about it - I also don't usually lather up with soap. Once again - lazy. Maybe that is why I don't *need* lotion.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

ACK!

Also, I bet once Ava is off all of her med's she might stop sweating so much. Wasn't she on different things like aspirin and stuff?

At this rate I will get to 1000 posts in no time


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kindermama*
> 
> remind me again...did you have trouble putting her down in the bassinet before? I'm just looking for a shred of hope that sometime in the next month or so, I'll might be able to put E down for a nap...
> 
> ...


For the first month probably solid, yeah, it was a fight every night to get her into the bassinet. I think it was literally when I tried changing it and putting her down right away instead of waiting longer, that she actually started sleeping in the bassinet. And now, she's just been slowly increasing how long she'll stay in there for. And the crib is new within the last few days. Naptimes are still hard though, but getting better. Nights she's fairly solid, and will sleep in the bassinet, but yeah, the daytime naps are touch and go still.

But there's hope! It --is-- better, even though it feels like it's taking forever.

And Tenley is much the same with her awake time-- it's really not often, even now. For awake time that she is awake and happy, not while being nursed, changed, bathed or actively soothed back to sleep... I'd say she still only does maybe 2 hours total a day, and she's almost 9 weeks now. She only lasts about half an hour awake and happy babbling before she starts on her way back to sleep again.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> After not being able to bathe DD for the past week or so, I don't know how people say they don't bathe their babies for like months at a time. She was GROSS after a couple of days! She sweats a lot and gets all sticky. And then when she was able to eat, milk goes everywhere and she's stinky from sour milk. I tried wiping her off with just a wet wash cloth and that seemed to make it worse! I don't usually put lotion on her but she needs to have some soap to get all the sticky stinky off. I've also looked at the CA baby stuff. Guess I just need to get some and try it.


Same! I think it's to do with the puke, but she downright stinks after two days. I'll go to cuddle her, and my stomach will turn because all I can smell is sour vomit.  I can't wait until the reflux gets better and she smells normal most of the time, insead of only for half hour or so after her bath. lol

MW-- I couldn't see the photos. Not sure if it was something with my computer or not. I'll have to try later.

Frustrated right now about vaccination choices. We looked through the Sears book, compared it to info online, and basically it boils down to that we want her to get vaxed against pertussis, and the prevnar one. Except that there is no solely pertussis vaccine, and while I think the pneumo is worth vaxxing against... I'm hesitant about the prevnar shot itself. Sigh. So basically if I want o vax for pertussis, which I do feel is warranted, then we have to give her DTaP at the least. Or I can add in Hib and Polio... and that's just the shot she's scheduled for. And then... there's the whole decision for prevnar. Looking through the information about the pneumo... it does seem serious and frequent enough to worry about. But it seems like |Prevnar is one of the ones that you hear the most complications and reactions to.

Gah. Why haven't they made a pertussis only shot? It seems like there's demand from it, just based on google information. I guess we'll keep researching until something 'feels right'


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> For the first month probably solid, yeah, it was a fight every night to get her into the bassinet. I think it was literally when I tried changing it and putting her down right away instead of waiting longer, that she actually started sleeping in the bassinet. And now, she's just been slowly increasing how long she'll stay in there for. And the crib is new within the last few days. Naptimes are still hard though, but getting better. Nights she's fairly solid, and will sleep in the bassinet, but yeah, the daytime naps are touch and go still.
> 
> ...


JJ- thanks for sharing! gives me hope! Our ped (who is super holistic and sees tons of family who selectively vax or don't vax at all) will not give the Prevnar shot at the same time/day as any other shots for that reason. Weird because she usually gives all the other vaccines in that one dose shot that they have out now. I'm all for the tetanus shot...but nothing else. Ped was trying to sway us into getting our two younger girls the DTap shot because Pertussis is going around town and she thought it would help protect E. My response: I'm not vaccinated so he won't be protected after all and I'm not getting a shot! Dh really wants me to seriously consider it though. I dunno.

MW- I couldn't see the pics either. Just a bunch of boxes with Xs in the corners

Carrie- I think maybe you're convincing me to give the Freetimes a try in the future. I still don't like the feel of suedecloth..but it's stay dry so that's all that matters! My boy is outgrowing all the newborn dipes this week! We just moved him to size 1 disposables too (we use them here and there)


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Where to begin? I feel like I should have been taking notes as I read!

Our ped, who I really like, said with Pertussis, although it's common, mostly it makes babies miserable with all the coughing and you need to watch their intake if they should contract it - so they don't get dehydrated or malnourished. She still recommends DTaP, but I do appreciate that she isn't into scare tactics. For us, we still very much agree on not vaxing our kids at all. I might feel differently if we lived in an area or time where the diseases were more prevelant and less treatable.

Getting baby to sleep with out nursing or holding - Norah likes to hold your hand too as she falls asleep - I put my palm sort of chest level and she grabs it with both of her hands. I love it!

MW: Love Ryan's hair! I always hope that pregnancy or something will turn my hair curly. So far, only thicker (as in amount, not texture) and darker. still straight as a pin.

I love my BG 4.0.

Carrie (and everyone else too) have you looked on FB or something to see if you have a local babywearing group? that is where I've met my awesomely crunchy IRL friends. There is a a mama there that fully vaxes (alot of us choose to delay/selective/non) but I know she's done her research and just come to a different conclusion than we did. I have a lot less problems with that than IRL friends that just blindly give their babies shots because someone said so. A lot of cloth diaper, co sleep, extended breastfeed, NIP without covers, etc. Its so nice to be able to talk about that stuff with IRL people wo understand!

Norah is awake and happy a ton now! she is such a happy easy baby.

I know I'm forgetting tons. but will catch up later.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Carrie ~ I'm just thinking in terms of Dylan. Finn is only 2 weeks younger, right? He seems to following right along with Dylan. Dylan was very fussy and keeping crazy hours last week, started sitting up and trying to crawl and things have settled a bit.


Yes I think they're like 2 weeks apart. Oh that gives me hope!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> *disclaimer* sometimes they do make noise. I don't necessarily run to get them. I don't consider what they do *crying it out* because they are never actually crying, and if they DO start crying I will go get them. HOWEVER, they do talk, whine, etc. to themselves.
> 
> All three of my kids have been able to put themselves to sleep by 6ish months - and they are ALL very different personality and needs wise. PLUS they go through rough patches even after they have been self-soothing. I remember when M was teething at like 15 months I would be up for two hours at a time some nights


Nora would have been full out screaming if I ever tried this with her, no matter what her age, lol. Honestly, this past month (and she's 3) was our first real breakthru with sleep. She's finally going to sleep on her own. And sleeping thru the night. It took 3 years but damnit, she's doing it herself!! I hope she doesn't regress, but even if she does, I know she *can* do it, so I know we'll get thru that too.

This is helpful to hear though, b/c I definitely want to be more hands off with Finn if I can. He seems to be able to fall asleep on his own and is/was a better sleeper than Nora, so I want to harness that!! LOL!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeninejessica*
> 
> Gah. Why haven't they made a pertussis only shot? It seems like there's demand from it, just based on google information. I guess we'll keep researching until something 'feels right'


Yes!!

We split them up and do the dtap with hib in one visit, and then in a few weeks do prevnar with polio. I alternate until both series' are complete. Then I'll start something new. Idk. It's a lot of visits, but it's worth it to me to split them up and only do 2 shots per visit.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I love my BG 4.0.
> 
> Carrie (and everyone else too) have you looked on FB or something to see if you have a local babywearing group? that is where I've met my awesomely crunchy IRL friends. There is a a mama there that fully vaxes (alot of us choose to delay/selective/non) but I know she's done her research and just come to a different conclusion than we did. I have a lot less problems with that than IRL friends that just blindly give their babies shots because someone said so. A lot of cloth diaper, co sleep, extended breastfeed, NIP without covers, etc. Its so nice to be able to talk about that stuff with IRL people wo understand!


Me too!

I should try to find a group. I met 2 moms through the Target Nurse-In, which was great, but we have yet to get together. Thanks for the idea.

AFUs - we had a better night last night! I tried to be more hands off, like I said, and it really did work. I put him in the cosleeper after nursing him, and he fussed. He went, "wahhh, wahhh, wahhh -- " then found his thumb, started sucking, and fell asleep. I was like, whoa. Ok. He woke 2 hours later, nursed him, put him back -- same thing. Fussed for a few seconds, and then found his thumb, went to sleep. He woke every 2 hours or so, but after 4 am I just brought him in the bed and nursed him lying down.

Oh -- I took off the swaddler though once I brought him in bed. It *really* helped, I think. He had better ability to roll around and kick, and position himself to latch on alone. I popped him off every time and didn't let him (or me) fall asleep nursing, and each time he settled himself within a few minutes.

One of my girlfriends is having her 1st baby next month, and man. Her comments to me on my FB are pushing my buttons!! She took a parenting class and she thinks she's an expert on EVERYTHING now. If she weren't 8 mo pregnant, I give her a serious piece of my mind. And she delivers her comments with little tact. Ugh. A class just cannot prepare you for how babies rock your world.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ Just LOL and make some sarcastic comment about how people always think they know everything about kids before they have any.









You guys can't see the pics I posted on here or through the link to my albums?

I got lazy with the album sharing and didn't check to see if they were public or if I had to set up a password. While setting up the sharing site, it said I didn't need passwords so maybe all my albums are private. I'll have to see about that because I don't really want to make them public for anyone to view. There are a lot of naked baby pics that I don't want to end up floating around on the internet. It's also a Beta thing so all the glitches may not have been worked out. I actually couldn't view the photos in the albums when I clicked on them. The site seemed to think it opened up the albums but I just got blank pages.

annie ~ I almost mentioned using natural oils on the skin if it's dry and/or cracked, as long as there are no added perfumes or anything like that. We use coconut oil here. My neighbor from Spain uses olive oil for everything. Kukui oil was a big one in Hawaii.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie - that's great! I like to let babies figure out stuff if they can. I still think Norah will be a thumb sucker, but right now she's still on the paci. I really want her to be a thumb baby, is that bad?

I almost always pop Norah off the boob at some point at night, else she'd pop off and on for hours. stick the paci in and she goes right to sleep.

My sister is like that, and she's not even pregnant! LOL

we helped her move this weekend and she was admiring my mad wrapping skillz. LOL I am so GLAD that she admires it and just doesn't think its weird. evidentally their former roomates have a high-needs baby and she said Norah is so happy and easy in comparison.

oh, we went to the mall and we got stopped by a pregnant couple asking about my woven wrap (I had Norah in a one shouldered front carry) and that was cool, except they asked if you could wear a baby facing out in it. I said you *could* but you shouldn't because it's bad for their spines. they looked so disappointed! why do people want to wear babies facing out? I said you can wear baby on your back if they want to look around, or on your hip.

OOOH and I cut my hair shorter. when I can, I will get and post a pic


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I could see them.

oh, and Norah gets bathed once a week. with soap because I like the smell. (it's the aveeno calming stuff) though maybe I need to switch now. we don't use lotion.

we tried coconut oil on her scalp for the cradle cap. it combined with her natural scent is just awful. we switched to using pure lavendar oil instead.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I give Finn a bath prob every 2-3 weeks. We use soap, though. Oh, and Finn's still got a bit of cradle cap going on. The bath seems to exacerbate it.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> we tried coconut oil on her scalp for the cradle cap. it combined with her natural scent is just awful. we switched to using pure lavendar oil instead.


If you use coconut oil (_I have never used lavender oil so that might work too) _in the bath, let is soak, and then comb in off with a fine tooth comb - it goes away and doesn't come back! My sister taught me that trick. Her three year old had really really bad cradle cap - and that was the only thing that work.

Carrie - we will see how well she fares when she has her baby







. I had a TON of experience with babies/kids and I still knew it was going to be hard.......and it was.

I am about to use olive oil on my feet. They are pretty dry and nasty









AFU - I am pretty sure M has strep. She has had a pretty high fever since Friday and I looked at her throat last night and it had the white pustule things. DH is taking her in today to get her (and his) throat cultured. I guess HE has had a sore throat for about 3 or 4 weeks............hmmmmmm - don't you think you MIGHT want to get that checked out?!? Boys.

I am going to forsure get some probiotics if she has to go on antibiotics. Do you guys think I can give her kefir while she is taking the antibiotics?


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *annie2186*
> 
> If you use coconut oil (_I have never used lavender oil so that might work too) _in the bath, let is soak, and then comb in off with a fine tooth comb - it goes away and doesn't come back! My sister taught me that trick. Her three year old had really really bad cradle cap - and that was the only thing that work.


and I mean comb off the cradle cap of course. I always used one of the little black barber combs. It *really* does work. I have used it on several children - and if you let the coconut oil sit and then comb it off it doesn't come back. I was always told not to touch it because it would come back worse than before. Doesn't happen if you do this.

Apparently it IS true that it comes back worse if you just scrape it off though - because my sister's then three year old boy had about 1 inch of cradle cap. That is how she figured this out - LOL


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

i think it's a lot better to wear baby facing out in a wrap or ABC than a bjorn. you can position more like they are seated. it's tricky, though.

looking through my old photos made me want to cut my hair short again. i really liked the way it looked. i had to shower and blow dry it every day, though, which i don't have time to do now. i just put it up in a makeshift bun so dylan can't pull it.

the coconut oil can get stinky but i've found it doesn't linger, at least for us.

i think soap can exacerbate cradle cap because it dries out the skin. dylan still has a tiny bit. i can only see it if i look really hard. he showers with me, which is probably 3-4 times a week. maybe once a week i use my naturally luxe bodywash/shampoo on him because i like the smell. that actually seemed to help clear up the cradle cap, maybe because it has essential oils in it.







i don't have any idea if ethan and kellen use any soap. i don't think they use shampoo. they aren't stinky or oily to me but maybe i'm just used to them and their smells. when i first met sean he was using soft soap in the shower. it did not mix well with his natural scent so i told him to switch. he now uses ivory and doesn't smell funny anymore. i can't get him to use any of my handmade soaps.

oh, jj, have you tried just baking soda as a deodorant? i've read about some people doing that.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I agree, it's probably a bit better for their hips. I guess for me too, it's just not super comfy. I like my babies facing me. Now, in a stroller, I like the babies to face out, because both mine seem to enjoy that alot.

Her cradle cap is almost gone, it's just a couple of flakes now. I don't really comb it, but I use a washcloth to kind of exfoliate it.

Gabe uses some sort of foaming soap in the bath. He loves that it foams. He doesn't care what sort it is. He sometimes still gets a bit of cradle cap; it's worse in the winter. He loves having his head rubbed with oil.

He is hating having his shirt taken off the last week or so. It's such a fight, and I don't know why! not his pants or diaper - that's just the usual toddler stuff - but just his shirt. And he is biting. I have a bruise. I showed him, and said ouch, hurts! and he repeated what I said, but I don't know that he understands. He still leans into me with his mouth open, but hasn't bitten again. He bit my dad too - same place - on the top of the shoulder. it's when he's super tired. I was so hoping to avoid a biting phase!


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## **mom2one** (Jan 26, 2008)

Hi everyone!

I too follow along but don't post very often! I loved seeing all of your pics! Fun! Here is a link to some of the family pics that a friend took for us - this was her first time doing an actual photo shoot with her new equipment! These were back when Dax was just about 6 weeks - there are a lot so don't feel like you have to look at them all!

So we are doing pretty well here. We have started up with "school" a little more the last couple of weeks. Kenya is doing well. We were doing that book Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons and it was going ok - but she seemed to be having a hard time going from that book to real books - she would just say "I can't read" when we went to a real book, so I didn't push it. Then I remember back a while MW - you had said that your DS just kind of started reading at one point, and that is what she is doing now - we haven't done much in the 100 Easy Lessons book, but she seems to just "get" reading now. So I am happy about that. She loves math too. I try to squeeze as much into each activity as I can - like for ex - she wants to learn the days of the week - so every day she prints out the day and date and the weather. So for that I figure she gets printing, learning the days of the week and the months, and she gets to practice her numbers too. Some might say science too since she has to figure out what the weather is for each day.

Oh Carrie - I know what you mean about people thinking they know EVERYTHING because they have read a book or went to a class! That drives me insane! I have a friend who has a baby who is just about 1 now. Well - she knows everything! When I was pregnant she had to tell me all about pregnancy because she knew it all - I guess she must have forgotten that I was pregnant for the 3rd time! She still tries to tell me everything about kids now. I am just glad she lives 2 hours away and I don't have to listen to it every day! On the other hand I have a friend who is due for #1 any day now and she is the total opposite she has tons of questions and is very nervous about it all - so since I have had to deal with the Know-it-all types I try very hard to say things like "well I think or "this is what I would do or what worked for me. And she gets tons of advice from family etc (unwanted) so I told her that she should do her research and listen to what everyone tells her and then make up her own mind - Do what she feels is the best, because what is right for one person is not right for everyone. Someone once told me that you're not a "real" parent with only one child! I had no idea what they were talking about until I had 2! It is so much different - every baby is different - then when they get older they fight and you have to deal with the different personalities and dividing your time between them all - it is so much harder! Anyway - not that I think you're not a real parent to just one kid - just that it is harder and a lot more complicated with more than one.

Annie - So glad Ava is home. Is she done now - or are there more procedures when she gets older?

Our Addition is coming along pretty well - DH was putting the drywall on our bedroom last night so that was exciting. I would say a month or 2 and we should be moving in! I can't wait - we are so cramped in here now - I keep getting rid of stuff and it doesn't seem to make a difference.

For baths - the girls (3 and 6) probably get a bath every 2 or 3 days unless they are doing something that is super dirty and they need one more often - we have dry skin and it gets worse if they bath every day. Dax probably gets a bath once a week - and that is just in the shower with us, once in a while I take him in the tub but usually just the shower with DH or I and I do use soap/shampoo on him because I like the smell of it.

Dax is fairly good at getting himself to sleep too. He kind of whines a little bit and he turns his head to the side of whatever he is in - or pulls a blanket up by his face and then just "sings" himself to sleep. I can tell the difference in his cries now so I know when he is crying and when is just "singing" himself to sleep. He is such a different baby in regards to sleep than I was used to! In a good way! Last night was a rough night - but it wasn't him it was DD2 and the cat!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by ***mom2one***
> 
> Dax is fairly good at getting himself to sleep too. He kind of whines a little bit and he turns his head to the side of whatever he is in - or pulls a blanket up by his face and then just "sings" himself to sleep. I can tell the difference in his cries now so I know when he is crying and when is just "singing" himself to sleep.


This is what I'm talking about. How long does it take them to get to this point? I lay Finn down for his nap sleepy, full tummy, but awake, and he'll lay in there for 25-30 min awake, fussing at times, yelling out, yawning. By then I'm aggravated. Its easier just to nurse him til he's out cold and lay him down asleep, and then he'll sleep for an hour or two.

BUT, now that he's randomly falling asleep in places, and seems to be able to soothe with his thumb at night...I should give him more opportunity to fall asleep on his own? I wish it didn't aggravate me so much when he doesn't fall asleep. I just feel like I"m constantly keeping an ear out and watching the clock and I hate that.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I'm not comfortable wearing a baby forward facing in my ABC or wrap, either. I feel off balance. It can be done, though, because I've seen pics and maybe video tutorials on how to do it.

I saw that Naturally Luxe had foaming spray bottles for sell on the site. You could put any cleanser in it and it will foam.


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## **mom2one** (Jan 26, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> This is what I'm talking about. How long does it take them to get to this point? I lay Finn down for his nap sleepy, full tummy, but awake, and he'll lay in there for 25-30 min awake, fussing at times, yelling out, yawning. By then I'm aggravated. Its easier just to nurse him til he's out cold and lay him down asleep, and then he'll sleep for an hour or two.
> 
> BUT, now that he's randomly falling asleep in places, and seems to be able to soothe with his thumb at night...I should give him more opportunity to fall asleep on his own? I wish it didn't aggravate me so much when he doesn't fall asleep. I just feel like I"m constantly keeping an ear out and watching the clock and I hate that.


I didn't actively try to get him to do this - but with 2 other LOs sometimes I just couldn't get to him right away - so it just started happening - by the time I did get to him he was asleep already. I should say that it happens most often when he is swinging - maybe you could try that - feed him and put him in his swing for a nap??


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Carrie ~ I don't think there's any right or wrong way to put baby down as long as you aren't CIO. If nursing him down works for you, than stick with that. If you can put him down awake and he'll drift off to sleep without you getting aggravated, then do that, if you want. No reason to get yourself all worked up over something that you don't have to do.

Your description of feeling like you are always listening for him is exactly how I feel all the time and why I'm always so stressed. Even when D goes down for his early nap and I know it's usually at least 2 hours long, that's not guaranteed. I try to get some housework done or do something with the boys or sit and knit and relax but I never really can. I'm always on edge waiting to hear him wake up at any moment. I don't know that there's any way around that with a baby and other kids around.

The other night I got so angry. It was around 9 pm and Dylan had actually fallen asleep. I was hoping I could put him down for at least an hour and get some time to myself and then we could all go to bed. When I got upstairs Ethan was in the shower and Kellen was running around my room like a nut. I couldn't even get to them to be quiet before they woke up Dylan. I said, "That's it! I'm done! Ethan, take care of Dylan." I put Dylan on the bed and went back downstairs and into the garage to read for maybe 5 or 10 minutes without turning the monitor on. I didn't want to know if Dylan was crying because I just needed a few minutes. Thankfully, he wasn't upset. Ryan also constantly wakes Dylan up. He seems to manage to wake D from his afternoon nap almost every day. He gets up just about the time that D would go down and he's not very quiet. I keep trying to get him to understand that just closing his bedroom or bathroom door is enough to wake D but he doesn't get it. I get so angry!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by ***mom2one***
> 
> I didn't actively try to get him to do this - but with 2 other LOs sometimes I just couldn't get to him right away - so it just started happening - by the time I did get to him he was asleep already. I should say that it happens most often when he is swinging - maybe you could try that - feed him and put him in his swing for a nap??


Ohhh the swing.

Mixed feelings there.

Plus he's about to outgrow it. I also don't want him dependent on movement. Though, admittedly I still use it while getting DD down for bed when DH is out of town.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Carrie ~ I don't think there's any right or wrong way to put baby down as long as you aren't CIO. If nursing him down works for you, than stick with that. If you can put him down awake and he'll drift off to sleep without you getting aggravated, then do that, if you want. No reason to get yourself all worked up over something that you don't have to do.
> Your description of feeling like you are always listening for him is exactly how I feel all the time and why I'm always so stressed. Even when D goes down for his early nap and I know it's usually at least 2 hours long, that's not guaranteed. I try to get some housework done or do something with the boys or sit and knit and relax but I never really can. I'm always on edge waiting to hear him wake up at any moment. I don't know that there's any way around that with a baby and other kids around.
> The other night I got so angry. It was around 9 pm and Dylan had actually fallen asleep. I was hoping I could put him down for at least an hour and get some time to myself and then we could all go to bed. When I got upstairs Ethan was in the shower and Kellen was running around my room like a nut. I couldn't even get to them to be quiet before they woke up Dylan. I said, "That's it! I'm done! Ethan, take care of Dylan." I put Dylan on the bed and went back downstairs and into the garage to read for maybe 5 or 10 minutes without turning the monitor on. I didn't want to know if Dylan was crying because I just needed a few minutes. Thankfully, he wasn't upset. Ryan also constantly wakes Dylan up. He seems to manage to wake D from his afternoon nap almost every day. He gets up just about the time that D would go down and he's not very quiet. I keep trying to get him to understand that just closing his bedroom or bathroom door is enough to wake D but he doesn't get it. I get so angry!


I agree. I'll give it the old college try but I'm not going to let myself get worked up if it doesn't seem to click.

Isn't listening for them aggravating??

I also have DH in the mix, sometimes him creaking the damn floor wakes the baby up. I wish everyone would just be quiet!! I don't blame you for taking that breather. I get angry like that and I see red!! It's not safe to be around me, I don't think!!

I'm kind of grumpy today and I need to fix that. Ok. Taking a few deep breaths and mentally starting over NOW.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

funny thing is; when DD is napping and I am dealing/playing with DS I look over and it'slike - OH she's still sleeping! yay - I spend so much time listening out for her, that when I stop, it kind of freaks me out. kind of like when you are pregnant and have to think about the last time baby moved because it's just become so integrated with who you are as a pregnant person. IDK if that makes sense.

I saw a mom wearing her 1 year old facing out in the baby ktan without the extra middle support belt thing. It so freaked me out! it was so stretched out, and not supporting the little one really, it may have well been a crotch dangler, only stretchy.

I just listed a bunch of diapers on diaperswappers. I hope they sell quickly! (would love to pay off the lovely wrap I have on layaway!)

back to work . . . ugh.


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## **mom2one** (Jan 26, 2008)

Yeah - I know I worried about that too - but actually he seemed to have learned how to put himself to sleep while in the swing - and now he does it anywhere - in bed, in the bassinet (not very often though - it usually full of laundry!)

Daxton is a pretty sound sleeper actually - I thought they all slept like that - he is usually out here in the living room with us - the girls are jumping around and are not quiet by any means - esp when fight breaks out and he sleeps right through it or if they do wake him up it's just for a few seconds and then he's out again! We have always made it a point to have him sleep in a noisy environment - that way he is used to it and he sleeps right through it most of the time. I guess I should count my blessings!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Ohhh the swing.
> 
> ...


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I'd probably be worried about a bigger baby facing forward in a stretchy wrap, too. I've never used a stretchy wrap but that doesn't sound safe.

The first hour of Dylan's nap is usually ok. I am pretty comfortable that he'll sleep for at least that long. It's the 2nd hour that has me on edge. Sometimes he makes noises, even screams or squeals, but then settles back down. After that, I'm constantly listening for him. And, an hour isn't much time to get anything done. I feel rushed to do anything. His happy and awake times are longer now so I try to get some cleaning done and do any cooking while he's happy playing on the floor or in his high chair. That helps. I picked up and vacuumed my bedroom this morning while he was downstairs with the other boys.

I nurse him to sleep but I don't really wait until he's completely out anymore. Once he feels very relaxed and dozing I put him down. He's usually still sucking a little and will sometimes open his eyes and move his head around when I first put him down. He usually quickly closes his eyes again and goes to sleep. He doesn't seem to care much where I put him down. I had to put him on a blanket on the floor while I was cleaning my bed last week and he didn't fuss at all about that.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

I am a HUGE HUGE HUUUUUUUGE white noise addict. I have a fan in all of my kids rooms. Basically she can still hear stomping directly below her (in the kitchen) and/or if someone slams a door, etc. But she can't hear yelling, tv's, and you don't have to constantly worry about kids being loud.

My sister-in-law only has one kid - and she was all nazi about being loud when the baby was sleeping (I also think she used a swing for naps until forever too! LOL whatever works!) and I kept telling her to use white noise. She said no because she couldn't sleep with it ( they slept in the same room). Finally she did after about a year and a half and she has used it ever since.

White noise is the answer I tell ya.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I too feel like the 1st hour is the safe zone -- then I don't know what I'll get. I'm basically holding my breath for 45 min until I feel like he'll def be out that long, lol!

Mom2one - I think you just have a really good sleeper! LOL! I still think Finn is a really good sleeper, too, we just have our good days/nights and bad ones. As long as people are happy and rested, I think things are going ok.

MW - sometimes Finn does that, where he'll open his eyes and what not. He settles easily. Have you ever put any of your babies down sleepy but awake? I wish I could be as chill as you about things, sometimes. I feel a bit high strung and I compare myself and my kids to others too much.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Mom2one ~ I think age has a lot to do with it. When D was really young, he could sleep in the same room with the boys playing and talking and it wouldn't wake him. As he's gotten older and more aware and wanting to be involved in things, he's more easily awakened.

I jinxed myself. After I said he's always good for the first hour, he woke up after only 30 minutes.









Carrie ~ I haven't ever put any of them down awake. I guess I just equated that with having a nap schedule so it never occurred to me to do it. I don't think I'd know when would be the right time to do that since none of them ever had a set time for sleeping. I think I would get very frustrated trying to do that if baby didn't fall asleep. They've all had routines but not set times. KWIM? I just nurse when they want to nurse and, eventually, they doze off and I put them down. I can usually make a good guess based on the time whether or not babe will fall asleep at this or that nursing. There are a few times when I've tried laying down with them when I thought they were trying to sleep but being too distracted or disturbed. It was always hit or miss whether they'd actually fall asleep. I would get very frustrated and feel like I wasted a half hour if they didn't fall asleep.

What's the reason for you wanting to do that? Maybe if you explore that, you can find a solution you feel really good about.

I wouldn't say I'm laid back. I'd say more like resigned. I mostly just do the best I can do to get through each day.

I wish I could be more disciplined about bedtime with the older boys. I know that I could get them to sleep in their own beds in their own room if I worked at it. I just don't want to spend an hour plus every night doing bedtime, especially with Dylan. Kellen takes so long to settle that I'd be spending most of that time telling him to lay down and be quiet. It's much easier to just wait until he crashes.

Ok, one more pic because I think this is so sweet. Kellen is 11 months old in this photo.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: we don't have set naptimes either, though in the afternoon when Gabe is starting to get sleepy, I'll tell him to go get his blankey and have a cuddle (with it, not with me) and some days he does this without being asked. He's usually out in minutes once he gets it.

Most nights Gabe gets "put" to bed by one of us. sometimes it takes minutes, sometimes it takes an hour. I don't really tell him to be quiet or lay down. just sit in there with him until he figets himself to sleep. sometime he wants his head stroked or to lay down on the floor. sometimes he doesn't want to be touched at all. worth it though. Last night he crashed on the couch. But he woke up like 3 times in the night. poor DH, as it's his job to put him back down - at least with Norah, when she wakes, all I need to is pop boob in her mouth or at most change a diaper.

I used to be able to lay Gabe down awake before hes was mobile. Once he could roll to a sitting position and then pull himself up to standing, that didn't work anymore. Then I had to go back to nursing or rocking and then transferring him.


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## **mom2one** (Jan 26, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> MW: we don't have set naptimes either, though in the afternoon when Gabe is starting to get sleepy, I'll tell him to go get his blankey and have a cuddle (with it, not with me) and some days he does this without being asked. He's usually out in minutes once he gets it.
> 
> ...


Yeah - I wonder if I will have to do the same once Daxton is mobile? It's not that I am trying to get him to sleep because it is "nap time", I can just tell that he is tired and is going to fall asleep - like he isn't really nursing just kind of holding it in his mouth, or like I said sometimes he is whining a little and by the time I get to him he is already asleep.

Carrie - Yeah I think I do have a good sleeper. He def gets that from his dad! DH can sleep through anything - He can sleep anywhere, anytime! You could throw him on a big rock pile and he would fall asleep! I am just going to enjoy it as long a I can!

Oh - after I said about him falling asleep in the swing I was getting really tired so I decided to take a nap so I picked him up out of the swing and took him to bed with me - he woke up a little and then once we got in bed he just had to have his face against the pillow (which kind of freaks me out - I have to wait until he is asleep and then I move it) and went back to sleep. Then he woke up hungry so I nursed him again and then I got up but he kept sleeping for a while longer - he's up now and very happy to see hi sisters again!

I just hope the good sleeping sticks - the girls were a lot harder - Kacey was up nursing every two hours ( some nights) until she was over 2!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Well, things might be different here if I had another parent to help. That makes a big difference. If Sean were here, one of us could put the boys to bed while the other took care of Dylan. Sean has been gone so much over the years that we haven't been able to be consistent with it. When he's gone, I just do whatever works so that we all get the most sleep possible.

Kellen's not just fidgety. He jumps and runs around all over the place and yells and screams. So not worth it to fight with him about laying down in bed even if he was fidgety while laying there. When he was younger he used to fall asleep easily without any fuss. Not so much anymore, sort of. He just goes and goes and goes until he crashes. It's pretty funny, actually. We'll be in bed and he'll be talking and squirming and flopping all over the place one second and the next I realize he's not moving at all or making a sound and he's asleep. The nicest bedtimes for us have been when he's decided on his own to curl up on the couch with a blanket and just falls asleep. I can't stay up with him and Dylan like that anymore, though. I get way too tired.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

If I didn't have DH or FIL to help put Gabe to bed, I would probably just bring Norah in with me while I sat with Gabe. I think. I can't always wait until he crashes because sometimes that is when he acts out the most so he really NEEDS to go to bed.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

That picture is the sweetest thing I've ever seen!! Awww!!!

That's all I do too, mw. I just know when he'll doze off and when he won't. Sometimes I set him down, sometimes I don't. Sometimes he'll nap the entire time in arms (usually just one sleep cycle though). It's all go with the flow.

I think it's b/c it's what you're "supposed" to do, and like I said, I compare myself too much to other ppl. I know I do, I do it to a fault. They all do this sort of thing. I tell them not to stress so much over it, but then I turn around and wonder what I'm doing wrong or differently that it doesn't seem to work for my kids. Who knows?

Though, I don't know what I'm worried about. I did what I always do and he just woke up from a 2.5 hour nap in his cosleeper. I hereby give up trying to be someone I'm not!

Guys - I seriously just had a heart attack. I drove off with my wallet on the roof of my car. I took DD to school, dropped her off, and didn't realize it until I got home that it wasn't on the seat next to me. I came in the house crying and DH was like it's ok, just retrace your route. If it's not there, we'll deal with it. I know he thinks I'm losing my mind. I think I am too!! Luckily, it was in the middle of the road not too far from my house. I feel like OMG. How did I just DO that???


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

at least it was only your wallet! I am so glad you found it!

the living social deal for today was a membership for the children's museum at 1/2 off (or more) - we had to snag it! I'm so excited. -


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## **mom2one** (Jan 26, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> If I didn't have DH or FIL to help put Gabe to bed, I would probably just bring Norah in with me while I sat with Gabe. I think. I can't always wait until he crashes because sometimes that is when he acts out the most so he really NEEDS to go to bed.


This is Kacey - she just keeps getting more and more wound up and acts out more and more until we are all so sick of her! lol On the plus side - she falls asleep so fast when bedtime is left until she is at this point!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> 
> Well, things might be different here if I had another parent to help. That makes a big difference. If Sean were here, one of us could put the boys to bed while the other took care of Dylan. Sean has been gone so much over the years that we haven't been able to be consistent with it. When he's gone, I just do whatever works so that we all get the most sleep possible.


Yeah - you have a different situation than all of us - you have to be both parents! I honestly don't know how you do it! I have only had today being alone with the kids in a few days and I am about to go insane! It doesn't help that they don't listen to me as well as they do to DH - and that is totally my fault - but seriously - You are superwoman to do it all by yourself every day!

Carrie - That would have been me - totally freaking out! I am so glad you found it though!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> If I didn't have DH or FIL to help put Gabe to bed, I would probably just bring Norah in with me while I sat with Gabe.


This is what I do. I just do it when we are all going to bed rather than at a separate time for him and/or Ethan. I have tried to go to bed with Kellen earlier and sit in the room with him but, if anyone else is up, he stays up. I can't turn all the lights out and lay down that early because Dylan is not usually ready to sleep and he'll will fuss and cry. It ends up being very frustrating for me trying to sit there for 2+ hours waiting for everyone else to fall asleep. Then I'm ready to go to sleep anyway so I don't really see the point in doing that. KWIM? It doesn't save any time or frustration or anything.

Kellen is a major handful. Most of the time I don't have any idea what to do with him. He can run around outside most of the day and still come in and be crazy at night. Nothing seems to calm him.

Carrie ~ I think all of that comes from the idea that we have to teach babies how to sleep properly and we shouldn't allow them to be too dependent on us. I just find that so silly. I know I've said before that babies will sleep when they are tired. I know some people have sleep fighters or babies that don't sleep much but they are the exception rather than the rule. Of course, natural sleep is harder to come by these days with all the media and artificial lighting we can have on all the time. WRT the dependence thing, I believe that if we allow our babies and children to be however dependent they need to be on us now, they will be more secure and independent when they are older.

Do the people you know who do that do any form of CIO?

Dylan finally fell asleep again. Ethan has basketball practice at 5:15 but I don't think we're going to make it. I'm just too tired and do not want to wake D up for that. I'm trying the white noise thing. I have ceiling fans in the bedrooms but they don't make much noise so I set the TV to a station that doesn't come in. Course, since this is his first real nap today I won't know if he stays asleep from exhaustion or the white noise.

Thanks, mom2one, but I don't feel like any kind of superwoman. It's just something I do because I don't have a choice (other than to not have kids, of course).


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Have you ladies noticed that all of your kids will hit a rough patch all at the same time?!? Not so much today - because M is so sick, but just in general, this past month has been H.E.L.L.

Just whine, need this, whine, need that, hungry, whine, whine, whine







And then A is in her very frustrating beginning of toddler-ness stage. She climbs up something and can't get down and cries. TRIES to get down and doinks herself somewhere and cries. Cries to be picked up and the squiggles to get down immediately after







J is always wanting her hair or her dolls hair to be put up. And she is VERY particular about it so she usually takes it out within 5 minutes and wants me to put it up AGAIN and I just lose it after about the 10000000000 millionth time.

M is 3. nuff said.

K is pretty easy since she's older. Her homework drives me crazy though. I don't know what they do in public school for 7 hours to have to come home and have 1-2 hours of homework! I wish she didn't want to go, but she does, and so there you have it......

MW - how would that work for you? Are you so against it that even if your child WANTED and/or asked to go to public school you wouldn't let them? That is how my mom was. I'm kind of torn, because although I don't regret anything about not going to public school - and even had an awesome high school experience with being able to work and travel and take college courses but I DID want to go to public school in younger years but knew my mom wouldn't let me. Not sure I want that feeling for my kids.

RE: white noise.

I know how much it works because recently our power went out during a snow storm. It was about 9ish and A woke up for a snack so I was actually upstairs nursing her when it happened. I could hear nothing with the fan on - but with it off.......wow, every little word someone said! yikes! I do use a "real" fan. They are like 15 bucks at target. I am not sure they sell them this time of year, but I think they do.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Baby_Cakes, I just read your thread on FB about your DS falling asleep on the floor and all the comments from the preggo lady...LMAO! She's in for a rude awakening! Babies don't follow the "What to Expect the First Year" book and the stuff she's spouting sounds like it comes from that!









O.K. so I must have a super stinky baby or either I have more sensory issues than I thought! DD can't go more than two days w/out a bath. I usually bathe her every day, at the most every other day. She gets sticky and smells sweaty. She runs hot like her dad and when she sweats, her hair gets wet. She needs a bath every day.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ethan says he wants to go to public school but I won't let him. Maybe when he's older, like high school age, and won't be so susceptible to influence but not when he's so young that he doesn't fully understand what it's like. I think the constraints of institutionalized schooling are harmful. I think they stunt real learning. I think the reliance on a grading system, rewards and punishments, and competitiveness and comparison to others is harmful. I am _that_ opposed to it.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

I've given up on trying to get DD to sleep for a prescribed amount of time. Just won't happen. She will either sleep 20-30 mins or 2 hours.







The house can be loud or quiet, the room dark or bright. Doesn't matter. I do keep the exhaust fan in the bathroom running all the time for white noise. And I turn her sleep sheep on when I put her down. But other than that, I can't do much to help her stay asleep. She sometimes won't sleep long even if I'm laying in the bed with her. If she's ready to get up, she starts playing with my face...


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Carrie: don't know how close this is to you, but sounds interesting: http://www.meetup.com/AttachedMomsMontclair/

Thing about breast feeding is I am so hungry, does this go away?! I forget


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

Carrie ~ I think all of that comes from the idea that we have to teach babies how to sleep properly and we shouldn't allow them to be too dependent on us. I just find that so silly. I know I've said before that babies will sleep when they are tired. I know some people have sleep fighters or babies that don't sleep much but they are the exception rather than the rule. Of course, natural sleep is harder to come by these days with all the media and artificial lighting we can have on all the time. WRT the dependence thing, I believe that if we allow our babies and children to be however dependent they need to be on us now, they will be more secure and independent when they are older.
Do the people you know who do that do any form of CIO?


> Dylan finally fell asleep again. Ethan has basketball practice at 5:15 but I don't think we're going to make it. I'm just too tired and do not want to wake D up for that. I'm trying the white noise thing. I have ceiling fans in the bedrooms but they don't make much noise so I set the TV to a station that doesn't come in. Course, since this is his first real nap today I won't know if he stays asleep from exhaustion or the white noise.
> Thanks, mom2one, but I don't feel like any kind of superwoman. It's just something I do because I don't have a choice (other than to not have kids, of course).


I find it silly and unimportant. I do. I've read all the studies and agree with the experts, but then I go and still get sucked in.

Some do modified sleep training, but most don't. My one good friend was just very persistent. I feel like she's just more on top of things than I am. Her home is always clean, her kid naps and sleeps thru the night, she's pretty, she's everything. But I also know appearances can be deceiving and I don't always know what goes on behind closed doors. So. There's that too.

How did the evening go? Did he sleep well?

All moms are superwomen.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnnieA*
> 
> Baby_Cakes, I just read your thread on FB about your DS falling asleep on the floor and all the comments from the preggo lady...LMAO! She's in for a rude awakening! Babies don't follow the "What to Expect the First Year" book and the stuff she's spouting sounds like it comes from that!


THANK you!! You see what I"m saying??? Geez. I mean, I think she means well but she's all laaa-dee-dah that's not what my parenting teacher said or that's not what the book says. Tsk tsk!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> Carrie: don't know how close this is to you, but sounds interesting: http://www.meetup.com/AttachedMomsMontclair/
> 
> Thing about breast feeding is I am so hungry, does this go away?! I forget


Ooh I will check that link. Montclair is far. I tried to join the North Jersey Mom group of something or another, but b/c I'm not in North Jersey I wasn't allowed in. It was dumb b/c I'm literally only 20 min away.

I'm always hungry!! I feel like its better now than it was a few months ago. Now I just am tired and want to eat crap. I don't ever feel like eating healthy. I still have 2 lbs before I get to my prepreg weight, and I haven't been running as much as I was b/c I'm just so TIRED. I don't have the energy. I would ideally like to lose a bit more before summer/shorts and tanktop/bathing suit weather.

We did ok last night. Finn resettled himself in the cosleeper a handful of times, and I only nursed twice between 930 and 4. Woo hoo! Then I brought him in bed with me and we got up for the day at 730.

Chris is sleeping like crap lately so he's been on the couch. It makes me feel guilty, but what can I do? He's taking melatonin and snoring really badly, waking up me and the baby. So, he's been out in the living room.

He's leaving again today to go to DC but he will be back tomorrow night.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I am totally ignorant of NJ/NY geography LOL - but it sounded otherwise right up your alley as far as AP practices and stuff.

I had both cheesecake and icecream last night. isn't that awful? The thing is, I don't eat a whole lot of crap, other than the fact I do eat lots of carbs. Need to up my protein intake. Like yesterday I had a bowl of dry cereal for breakfast, leftover spaghetti and some cheesy broccoli rice for lunch (DS ate 1/2 the rice for me), and then creamy chicken and rice with broccoli for dinner. See, that doesn't look like alot, and I would honestly probably eat more, if there was anything in the house I wanted to eat! but there isn't. I need to stock up on nuts again, but they aren't the cheapest snack food. and I can't eat them around DS because I'm still not sure if he would choke on them or not.

Poor Chris! but at least he is getting sleep somewhere! I don't know how we slept. We went up around midnight and I laid her in the pack-n-play and slept for a while that way. At some point I brought her to bed with us and she nursed twice between whenever that was and when we woke up at 7. I feel pretty refreshed, so I think we must have slept ok.

I am still about 10 pounds less than PP weight - which is great! - but I would love to lose another 15 before summer. thinking about doing couch to 5K. is there an app for that?


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akind1*
> 
> I am still about 10 pounds less than PP weight - which is great! - but I would love to lose another 15 before summer. thinking about doing couch to 5K. is there an app for that?


Yup - that's how I did it! What phone do you have? I did C25K Pro. It was free when I got it thru Amazon, but the regular C25K (not pro) is free all the time. It was a good program! I'm doing the Bridge to 10K now (well, when I get to run, lol).

Mm. Cheesecake. I think that's one of the hardest things to go w/o as a vegan. I miss it!

I tend to nom on wheat thins, crackers, cookies, popcorn. All little things that are tasty in the moment but not really filling or good for you overall.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

do they not make some sort of tofu based version? just curious . . .

I am not really a cracker person, unless I have some sort of cheese to go on top. or dip . . . need to work on healthy snacks!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I must have missed some posts because I didn't see the one where Annie mentioned the FB thread.

I feel like crap. I think I'm working on 3 days without much sleep now. I will say it. Dylan is NOT a "good" sleeper. Of course, that doesn't mean he's a bad baby (Although, I did say that to Ryan last night, jokingly. I had to vent some steam. I even said, "I never thought I would say this, but...") Ryan saved us both!

Last night I thought I was going to lose it because Dylan fell asleep for about a half hour around 10:30 but woke back up around 11. I had not gotten any sleep the night before because he was squirmy and fussy every hour. Around midnight I got up and told Ryan I was going to lose it if he didn't take the baby. He did and I laid back down in bed.

After a little while, I went to check on them and he was holding Dylan across his lap and Dylan was staring up at him with one hand on Ryan's chest. It was the sweetest thing. I said I'd take Dylan back but Ryan said he was fine. He'd bring Dylan in when he was ready. Even when Dylan started to get fussy, Ryan got up and stood in a dark room holding him and rocking him until he fell asleep.

It would have been nice if he had stayed asleep but he didn't. He was very fussy and squirmy all night again and kept me up. I'm pretty sure it's gas because whenever he gets really fussy and stiff he lets out a big fart. And, they have been stinky lately! Whew!

Carrie ~ Have you thought about if Finn's bad nights have something to do with what you ate that day? Dylan started having the major gas and restlessness 3 nights ago (I think). That night I had black beans for dinner. I haven't eaten beans since he was first born because it seemed to cause him a lot of gas. I was hoping he'd be over that now but maybe not. Yesterday, I ate some spicy cheese dip. I think that may have contributed to his problems last night. I may have to go back to eating very mild, bland foods. That will put a huge damper on my vegetarian plans. I want the Chana Masala so badly!

Kat ~ I'm not hungry so much anymore. I actually don't have much of an appetite at all. I usually end up forcing myself to eat when I realize I'm so hungry that my stomach hurts and I feel sick. There's just too much other stuff I want to do rather than eating. I haven't really lost any weight for a few weeks, though. I'm stuck at 129 lbs., I think. My body fat percentage has dropped, though, so I may still be losing but it's not as noticeable in my weight, if that makes sense.

I'm not much of a crunchy, salty, carb snacker. I always had a sweet tooth. That seems to have gone away since I got pg with Dylan. I really don't have a taste for sweet stuff anymore. It's very strange. I used to love cheesecake. I can't count how many times I said I'd live off cheesecake if I could. Now I have no taste for it at all. The thought of eating it turns my stomach.

I do like crackers and humus but they have to be substantial crackers, not saltines or Townhouse crackers. My commissary sells some rice crackers that are really good. They're not like the plain, thin ones you find in the Asian section. They are made with brown rice and are thick and good. Ryan came down into the kitchen and complained about me getting gluten free stuff, tasted the crackers and walked off with the box.









I try to eat eggs most mornings for breakfast to make sure I get some protein right off the bat. Lunch is always a hard one for me. I especially don't like to cook in the middle of the day but I don't like sandwiches. Sometimes I'll have a salad with left overs from dinner but I'm not good at being consistent about that. Sometimes the left overs sit in the fridge until I throw them out.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Dylan and nursing. he is such a squirmer. he kicks his legs all over the place. he has recently, in the past 2-3 days, started clawing and pulling at his head and hair. for a few weeks he has been clawing at me, especially when we are laying down. it hurts! in addition, he kicks me constantly. i get so annoyed by it. i get overtouched much more quickly when he does that. i don't know what to do.

AnnieA ~ i know you're preoccupied but i've been wanting to ask you a question. You mentioned a while back that one of your children was like Kellen in that he gets wild and annoys everyone else. You said that, for the most part, you try to ignore the behavior. What happens when you do that? What do you do when the other kids get so annoyed that they get angry at him? Or do they not ever get that annoyed? Maybe because they are older they are better able to handle it themselves by walking away or something else?


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## onetwoten (Aug 13, 2007)

I'm hungry all the time but I think that's only because I'm still not eating as much as I should from lack of time/ability to prepare. I almost called my dad the other day to come pick us up so he could hold T while I cooked myself something for dinner. I was so hungry I was lightheaded, and she was on a screaming shriek, just barely quiet when I held and bounced her, but full volume with real tears everytime I put her down. I was literally looking up if I could use her carseat without the base when she finally settled in her swing long enough for me to whip up food.

If anyone is interested, I love fitday. it's an online calculator (probably an app too) where you can input your food and exercise-- but what I likw is what it doesn't just count calories, it actually calculates how much of the needed nutrients and vit and minerals you've gotten. I care less if I've eaten my allotment in calories than if I've actually eaten a healthy day, you know? I'm just getting started back on it.

Speaking of sleep... I feel like Tenley is -not- getting enough, and that's why she's in such a rotten mood. She fights it so bad, but she's so cranky. For instance, Sat night, she had a rough night, didn't sleep from 8pm until 130 when she crashed after 2 hours straight of screaming/fussing. Slept until 330am, and then nursed/fussed, wouldn't let me put her down until 6am. Then she slept until 8, and the same kind of thing, she 'slept' from 830 until 930, but fussing constantly. And then was up for the day by 10am. She only napped for about half an hour in the morning, and then for 2 hours in the afternoon (and I fought for every minute of it). Other than that, she only dozed in 10-15 minute spurts at the end of nursing sessions. And we started putting her to bed at 9:30, and she would sleep for 5 minutes and then scream. She fell asleep for the night just ater midnight. So in 24 hours, she slept about 9-10 hours if we're being generous. But she just fights it all day long. It would be one thing if she was up and happy, but she's up and not content unless I'm - holding her, walking the house, while bouncing her, and patting her back, and talking/singing to her. But days when she's actually had good naps, I can pop her in the wrap and talk toher and she'll coo for an hour, or put her in the swing for 20 minutes, and same thing. Days when she hasn't napped, she has none of that. I just can't figure out how to get her to sleep more! She's so stubborn.

MW-- good stuff for Ryan! Sometimes I reallllly need DH here to pass off to, and I feel for you for not having that option. It's nice R was so cognizant of your feelings and need for peace for a bit.

There was something else I wanted to respond to, but I don't remember what it was...

Somebody is coming by today to buy diapers-- I'm selling 6 fuzzibunz with microfibre inserts, 2 NB bummis covers and 10 prefolds, 6 toddler prefolds, and 3 AMP AI2 diapers, for $135. If I remember correctly what I paid for everything, I think that means I'm only 'losing' about $10-15. Not bad for two months worth of wear. I also have someone coming to buy a bag of some of the clothing I pared down, so that's another $10.

And then I'm meeting up with someone to purchase more diapers  lol I'm getting 3 plain and one printed AMP OS duos, and 4 bamboo inserts, all at a great price. She used them for 3 months, and they're normally $20 each, selling to me for $12, and the inserts are half price. I'm excited. After this we will be good good for our stash until she hits 35lbs.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I don't think it's something I'm eating, only b/c i basically eat exactly the same thing every day, and the recipes I make are the same things I make weekly. But hmm, maybe I'll pay closer attention. The past 2 nights have been stellar so I'm hoping it was just related to him learning to sit. I like getting a bit of a breather before the next milestone hits!

I don't like Saltines or Townhouse. I like Wheat Thins though, and the new sticks they came out with. I like to dip them even in onion dip. Yum.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

JJ ~ I don't think I have any experience with a baby that truly fights sleep in order to help you. Have you posted a general thread or found another one here related to that so that other mamas who've been through could offer some help?

For the first few months Dylan would cry on my shoulder before falling asleep but then he would usually nap for a while. I never felt like he was really fighting it, just having a hard time settling, I guess. He was pretty squirmy and fussy at night, too. I think it was/is all from tummy troubles/gas/reflux. The only thing I can think of is to just let go of trying to do much of anything else and do whatever it takes for her to sleep, whether it be to hold her or lay down with her or carry her around in a sling. Oh, when Ethan was little he wouldn't stay asleep unless he was held or someone laid with him. Every time we tried to put him down by himself, he'd wake up within 20 minutes. That's what finally convinced Sean that bedsharing was the way to go. It was the only way any of us get any good chunks of sleep.

Can you or your dh prepare all, or at least most, of your food before the day? Make extra dinner and prepare it to have as left overs the next day. Have everything set out and easy to grab. Keep quick, finder foods and a cup of water on hand at all times. I'm not good at suggestions. It depends on what you eat. I ate a lot of cheddar cheese sticks in those early days for the protein and fat. I kept boxes of protein/health bars on hand. Bags of already cut up, ready to eat vegetables and fruits that you can just wash and eat. Prepared frozen meals that you ca pop in the microwave. I know that's not the healthiest thing but it's better than not eating at all. Many of them you can also cook in the oven if you prefer. It just takes a lot longer.

Have you taken her to a doctor to discuss this problem? I really think that, if she's having that much trouble, it is most likely a health/medical issue. Just find a doctor who will work with you to figure out the problem and find a healthy solution rather than one who will tell you to just put her down and let her cry.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/sleep-problems/31-ways-get-your-baby-sleep-and-stay-asleep There are links on that page to various other issues you might be dealing with, like medical causes, colic, ways to soothe a fussy baby. I need to read all of those, too.

http://www.google.com/cse?cx=012979730609813424208%3A_tcsrynygvi&ie=UTF-8&q=sleep&sa=Search&siteurl=www.kellymom.com%2F#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=sleep&gsc.page=1 Links to various articles on Kellymom.com about sleep.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

JJ that was Nora to a T. Looking back, she had colic. No doubt about it. How is Tenley's reflux? Does any of it seem like it's associated?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> JJ that was Nora to a T. Looking back, she had colic. No doubt about it. How is Tenley's reflux? Does any of it seem like it's associated?


Yeah, after reading some on the Dr. Sears site, it really does sound like colic, which he says to call, "hurting baby", instead. I guess that helps to keep in mind that it means the baby is in pain rather than just being a pita. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Dr. Sears says it usually only lasts about 3 months, which means you are in the homestretch.

I still think it might be a good idea to consult a doctor about any medical issues or food allergies that might be causing the pain and fussiness.

I keep forgetting to tell you all that Dylan slept for 2.5 hours yesterday with the TV white noise on. This morning he's been sleeping for at least that long with the white noise on again and I haven't done much to try to get the boys to keep the noise down. I might have to get a white noise machine. If only he would sleep like this at night.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> I don't think it's something I'm eating, only b/c i basically eat exactly the same thing every day, and the recipes I make are the same things I make weekly. But hmm, maybe I'll pay closer attention.


Do you eat the same things on the same nights of the week, like Mondays are pork chop night and Tuesdays are meatloaf night and so on (I know you don't eat that stuff but don't have names for what you eat.







) Since you say you have good days/nights and bad ones, maybe it corresponds to what you eat on those particular days, if it's the same thing.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Serial posting.

Carrie ~ On comparing yourself to others, it's hard to not do. But, you will always find people who seem better or worse than you and the grass really is always greener, as they say, because we don't ever know the whole story.

I wonder a lot why I can't have the same energy and motivation to do a lot of the things that it seems other homeschoolers do. They seem to always be on the go, doing great projects, going on field trips, being involved in various classes and groups, up for just about anything. I just can't do all of that. It's not in my nature. I had another homeschooling mom here ask me if I'd like to plan weekly field trips to Wilmington with her. We could carpool and spend an entire day there since it's a kind of long drive. I told her that wasn't realistic for me to be able to commit to. I told her that I might be able to plan a 3 hour outing once a month (not including driving time, which would be another 3 hours) but it would depend on how Dylan does in the car and how much sleep we all got the day before. We left it at her seeing what things she could come up with to do. She hasn't gotten back to me about it yet. She has 2 kids who are 6 or 7 and 4 and her husband is in the Marine Corps Reserve so he doesn't deploy so her life is quite different from mine. I keep hoping that someday I'll be able to do more because I feel like Ethan is missing out on a lot.

mom2one ~ How old is Kenya? Isn't cool how they just suddenly seem to get it and start reading? Ethan has been reading Captain Underpants and reading books to Kellen and Dylan at night. He got a note from Sean yesterday and read almost the entire thing by himself.

Oh, and he advised Kellen today to find a girlfriend who likes him just for who he is.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Nooo I'm not that on the ball. We alternate depending on what we have in the house and what we feel like. Usually, tacos, stir fry, and burgers are our main 3 dinners, and once in awhile I'll throw together something like chana masala, or creole red beans, or if I'm not feeling like cooking we'll just have hummus wraps or something. We rarely stray from that. At least not in the past 6 months! LOL!

Here's something I've been meaning to talk about. Usually DD doesn't want what I make. I don't force her to try what I make, but I ask her a few times and maybe say something like, "if you don't like it you don't need to finish it, but I want you to try it." She'll take a bite or she won't. 9 times out of 10 I just end up making her something else -- grilled cheese, soup, pb &jelly, etc. It bothers me b/c I feel like I'm stunting her palate with those foods. I don't want her to only eat "kid food" but I sometimes what I make isn't something that appeals to her. It's not too spicy or too hard to eat, but she'll look at it or smell it and say, "I don't like it."

Is it her age?

We did baby led solids and she was a great eater. She loved all kinds of foods, ethnic foods, Indian. She still likes sushi but we don't get that often. She used to eat a ton of chinese food, but now she'll pick at dumplings. Somewhere along the line, she developed tastes for some things and not for others. Some days she loves tofu, other days she can't even chew a bite with out gagging.

Idk where I'm going with this, I guess I'm just wondering if it's common, and even if it is, what can I do to help her out of this rut?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I think that's very common for her age. Ethan's tastes started changing around when he was 3 or 4. He used to eat all kinds of vegetables. I've got a photo of him sitting on the dining room table eating broccoli out of the pot when he was close to 2. Now he won't touch it. He only eats salad. He complains about most everything I eat. He likes what I would consider kid food, pasta, plain chicken legs, hamburgers. He won't eat anything with any spices or herbs on them. He doesn't like things mixed together or on top of each other. Like when I made black beans with pasta the other night. Both he and Kellen fussed because I had put the beans on top of the pasta and refused to eat it like that. They don't want their chinese food top of their rice. Ryan went through a phase like that, too. Now he likes a large variety of food. I remember going through a picky-eater phase when I was kid but I like all kinds of stuff now and am almost always up for trying something new.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I still don't put my chinese food on top of my rice! actually, unless it's fried rice, I usually don't eat it at all.

I think it's a phase. Some days Gabe can't get enough of something - oranges, bananas, grapes, peas, etc, and the next day - seriously, the very next day, he won't eat it at all. It's frustrating, because you buy more of whatever, and then he won't eat it . . .such a waste! All I can say, is keep offering. I read somewhere that kids have way more taste buds than adults, that's why they tend to like less intense flavors, since everything is magnified for them with all those extra tastebuds.

ok, here is me with one of my new wraps - and my new haircut! (not the best pic of either, but hey)


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

akind1, cute hair and cute wrap! Oh and cute baby too!

Baby_Cakes, I know what you mean about comparing yourself to others. DD's babysitter is one of those women whose house is always clean, she always has her hair and makeup done, etc., etc. My house is generally in chaos and I'm normally running around like a nut! Of course, she has 1 kid and 1 stepkid and I have 1 kid and 4 stepkids...blah blah blah. Everyone's life is different. Did you ever read that post on Momastery where she was talking about how people look at her and think she's so together because she's thin and usually has her hair and makeup done but inside she's just a wreck? Great post for everyone to read I think.

MW, yes, DSS 11 acts a lot like how you describe K. Generally if ignoring the behavior doesn't work, I can sit down with him for a few minutes and get him involved in a new activity, or ask him to help me with whatever I'm doing or somehow redirect him and he will settle down. His behavior is almost always attention seeking because he can get lost in the shuffle otherwise. His siblings, even though they are older, do NOT handle his crazy behavior well. They yell at him or hit him and then it just escalates things. We do talk to him some about how when he acts that way, it can be difficult for his siblings to want to be around him, even though we know he's acting that way because he's feeling neglected.

Food aversions...yeah generally those things come and go. But some kids just really don't like things mixed. I learned a long time ago to not mix most stuff before it gets to the table. So pasta doesn't automatically get sauce, toppings don't automatically go on tacos or taco salad, etc. I either just make their plates with little piles or ask when making their plates. DH is not good about doing that and as a result, the kids whine a lot when he makes dinner. For instance one night he was making jumbalaya. I tried to convince him to keep the kielbasa separate but he said no, they would eat it together. Nope. Some of them don't like jumbalaya but they would have eaten the kielbasa alone. Once he combined it, they didn't want to eat any of it.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Annie ~ My dh does that, too. If I mention it, he will usually oblige but he doesn't think of it on his own. Last night when Ryan was making dinner, Ethan asked to not have cheese on his. Ryan kept saying that it was all going to have cheese and Ethan got upset. Turned out Ryan was teasing him and Ethan ended up really like the food. I can't get Ryan to understand that it's not fun for anyone to be teased.









The same thing happens when Kellen bothers Ethan too much. Ethan gets angry and lashes out. Kellen gets so out of control that I can't really blame Ethan. I'm trying to teach him other ways to handle it, that retaliation is never OK, but it's not fair to him to always have to go someone else. Sometimes Kellen does things for attention but most of the time it's because he's not getting what he wants. In his defense, Ethan can be very bossy and not let Kellen do what he wants, like when they are playing an imaginative game and they both want to be the same character. Kellen wants to be whoever Ethan is because he thinks whatever his big brother wants is the coolest. The only solution I've come up with is to say that, since it's pretend, they can both be the same character.









Other times, Kellen is just wild and crazy just because. I try to get Kellen interested in other things but he won't have it. He wants to do whatever Ethan is doing. I feel bad for Kellen. I don't want him to grow up thinking he's a bother all the time but I can't seem to get him to understand that his behavior is too much a lot of the time. Even with Dylan, he doesn't just walk slowly up to him and play with him gentle. He charges at him. Jumps or plops down right next to him, get right up in his face and starts shaking his head violently. It's crazy!

Kat ~ That wrap is beautiful and so is your haircut. Looks very easy, too. I wish I could do that with my hair but it's not straight like that. It has this weird wave to it so that, if it's short and I don't wet and style it every day, it just looks like a mess. Today I put mouse in my hair and scrunched and didn't blow dry it and, even though it's about shoulder length, it still just looks messy.

What's that wrap carry called?

I guess I'm lucky I don't know anyone with kids like me who appears to have it all together. I don't think much about it with people who have only 1 or 2 kids. I remember those days and how I was much better able to keep things at least appearing in control. Those with 3+ kids that I know are just like me. We all laugh about how the kids want to come over to each other's houses but we won't let them because our houses are always a mess. The last time I told one mom that maybe I should come to her house because then I wouldn't be embarrassed to have her at mine.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

MW, if you sit down and start playing with some of K's toys, he will ignore you and run off? I've always been able to entice a child to play by starting the play myself. For instance, I will sit down and start standing up the Playmobil people, put someone in a car, give someone else a different hat, etc. and after a few minutes, at least one of my kids is curious enough to come over and see what I'm doing. Or I will start building something with the Lincoln Logs. Once they get engaged, then I quietly stand up and go about what I needed to do. I don't ask them to come play or paint or whatever I want them to do. I just start doing it and my children are nosy enough to come over and see what's going on!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, he'll come over and start playing but won't continue for long if I walk away. And, of course, I have the most problems with him when I can't play with him for long, like when I'm nursing Dylan or having to hold him because he's fussy. It's really hard for me to be happily present with the other kids when Dylan is fussing and crying and flopping around. I've talked about this with Sean so he plans to pay a lot of attention to Kellen when he gets home. He tried when he was home for Thanksgiving but Kellen didn't seem much interested. However, he didn't try starting the play himself and waiting for Kellen to join. I'll have to suggest that to him.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Ah, gotcha. I haven't had to try it since DD was born so I would imagine that it would be hard w/a squirmy fussy baby. If you do suggest it to your DH, maybe tell/remind him to not direct the play. That can put off a lot of kids. It makes them feel like you are trying to force them to do something. But if you just play quietly yourself and let them start playing on their own, it usually works wonders. I meant to ask you before, do your boys have any Playmobil? I bet they would like it a lot. I really like it because there's no story line attached to the characters so it really promotes open-ended play.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I'll have to remember to tell Sean that. He has a tendency to take over whatever he does with the boys. I always laugh at him when he sits down to do Leggos with them and 15 minutes later the boys are off playing elsewhere and he's still sitting on the middle of the floor trying to put one of those things together.

We do have one Playmobil medieval castle set. They have lost pieces so it can't be put together any more but they still play with it in all kinds of various ways. The local TRU carries some Playmobil but not a lot. I've found that they are really good at making up their own play with just about any toy, though.

Oh, a funny. Ryan's friend, Devan, came over today while Ethan and Kellen were out front playing. Kellen, apparently, told Devan that he had signed his life away to the Marine Corps.









On a totally different subject, how do you all feel about buying things like alcohol and cigarettes for your adult kids? I know you all are a long way off from that but I'm facing it right now. Ryan smokes and sometimes asks me to pick him up a pack of cigarettes when I go shopping. I don't like doing it but I don't see how I can really not. If he were an adult friend or other relative, I'd do it. It just feels so wrong when it's my child. Also, he's going to be 21 in March. I don't know how I feel about him drinking alcohol. He'll be able to do it whenever and as much as he wants at home in front of me. I guess it scares me because I think about drunk driving and all the other things that can go wrong with drinking, especially since his father is an addict. I know he's drank at parties before and he always has good sense to not drive or get in a car with some who has but still...


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

MW: it's called a poppin's hip carry, butDD is more on my front than my hip. If you search the babywearer.com there are easy photo instructions. Even Gabe let's me wear him like this.

Thanks re: the hair, it is super easy and I like it a lot. I wish my hair had some texture!

With Gabe I often don't need to DO anything, just sit on the floor and watch while he plays, even if I am holding DDit doesn't bother him too much.

Neither my dad or I really like our food mixed, so I am used to having it separate. Gabe is going through a chicken phase. Oy.

I needs to work on snack foods, really i am so hungry all the time and that is part of why my weight isn't budging. I noticed with Gabe I needed to eat to lose weight.

Hope everyone is enjoying good weather, it's been like a early spring here.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I have read that if you don't eat enough, your body goes into starvation mode. It stores as much as it can so you actually hold onto or even gain weight rather than losing. I also read recently that a breastfeeding woman should eat 1500 calories a day at the bare minimum but a lot of times that's not really sufficient. 1800-2000 calories is better.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

I am totally not motivated to get up and go anywhere or do anything. I don't mind going to friends/family with all four kids when the youngest is still pretty small, because I can just hang out. Actually GOING going places wears me OUT. Ugh - even thinking about it is killing me









That is one reason I didn't fight to much when DH wanted to put K back in school. I felt guilty because I had dreams of teaching her to dance, ice-skate, all kinds of stuff. But, chaaaa......didn't happen.

JJ - Jacinta was very very much like Tenley. I am almost positive she had colic. I don't think it was any food allergies or sensitivities though because she doesn't have any now. I think it is just something some babies have to go through. I wish I could tell you that it only lasts 3 months, but for me it definitely lasted longer. It sloooowly got better and better. It wasn't like one day she was screaming for hours and hours and the next she was all smiles. I *think* by six months she was alot better. Then its just normal baby PITA









akind1 - that is a very pretty wrap! I love it! I could never figure that out - that is why I just have my mei tai. I also love the hair. I have not been brave enough to go much shorter than shoulder length myself.

I also agree that kids have crazy palates. I am constantly asking my kids if they like this or that - because one day they will and then the next they will hate it! Gotta love it.

Speaking of what kids eat - AnnieA and MW, I have known a few moms IRL who had really high energy kids, etc. and it was linked to a food allergy. I'm not really sure how they finally figured it out, but I guess he was a whole other kid afterward. Just something to think about. I'm sure for some kids its just normal too.

I am sure I am forgetting a bunch of stuff.


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## Kindermama (Nov 29, 2004)

JJ- sounds like colic to me! My 2nd dd had it. She did end up having many food allergies. I highly suggested doing an elimination diet. Take out dairy, soy, nuts, corn, wheat and eggs for about a week. If it makes a different, then you have part of the answer! You'll have to reintroduce one food at a time

and wait 4 days to see if she has any reaction in order to pinpoint which one is bothering her. I'm doing it now for E and he has slept really well the last two nights and today....well, today, he has slept ALLLLL day. Only alert one or twice for no more than an hour. I'm thinking growth spurt or maybe...maybe

his belly is just happy enough now to sleep like a newborn should! I wonder how tonight will go...hopefully he stays asleep!

Oh...just remembered something. DH is giving E baby probiotics and I also started making sure he drained one breast fully before switching him so he gets the heavy fat at the end. I read that if you switch breasts too soon, baby gets a lot of lactose and too much lactose can cause gas pains. Also, baby willwake more frequently if they don't get the heavy fat. You might want to try it! It could be what's making a difference for E. I'm doing all these things at once so it's hard to know which one is helping! COLIEF is a product you might want to look into!

Kat- your hair looks really great!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I couldn't buy my child cigarettes. I'm very against smoking, both my parents did and it's such a disgusting habit/addiction. I would refuse, mw. Why do you buy them for him?
Alcohol is different, though, to me at least. I wouldn't have a problem buying it since I buy it anyway. I buy plenty of wine and liquor. Chances are we'll have it on hand in the future, rather than the kids wanting anything.
I dont think I'll mind them having a beer or like a hard lemonade even before age 21. I feel like if it's not made tempting, they won't go apeshit with it once they are legal. Alcoholism runs in my family, and I actually struggled a bit with it before having kids, so I'll have to evaluate this as time goes on.
With my kids, I want them to know to call me no matter what, if they are in an unsafe situation. I don't care if they are drunk and aren't of legal age, call me. I would rather pick them up at 3 am somewhere myself, I'd just want them home safe!! I really want to keep those lines of communication open so we trust each other.

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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

Oh, a funny. Ryan's friend, Devan, came over today while Ethan and Kellen were out front playing. Kellen, apparently, told Devan that he had signed his life away to the Marine Corps.










> On a totally different subject, how do you all feel about buying things like alcohol and cigarettes for your adult kids? I know you all are a long way off from that but I'm facing it right now. Ryan smokes and sometimes asks me to pick him up a pack of cigarettes when I go shopping. I don't like doing it but I don't see how I can really not. If he were an adult friend or other relative, I'd do it. It just feels so wrong when it's my child. Also, he's going to be 21 in March. I don't know how I feel about him drinking alcohol. He'll be able to do it whenever and as much as he wants at home in front of me. I guess it scares me because I think about drunk driving and all the other things that can go wrong with drinking, especially since his father is an addict. I know he's drank at parties before and he always has good sense to not drive or get in a car with some who has but still...


Isn't it funny how kids repeat everything??? I can only imagine what my kids say







I totally get why kid therapy is through play too - I hear so many things when my nieces nephews come over to play.

The cigarettes........I'm not sure. I started refusing to give money to family/friends and/or buy cigarettes. I think they are yucky. They don't give you a buzz, they don't relax you, they make you smell like crap and give you mega health problems. Personally I would just tell my kid or anyone that I think it's stupid, and if they want to get them they can figure out how.

Ha ha ha ha! I remember a story when I was 17 that I wouldn't drive my brother to get some, so he had to walk. I guess I am kind of a bit** when it comes to that.

The alcohol - I don't plan on making it a big deal at all. At about 14 or 15, if my kids want they can start drinking wine coolers every once in awhile. Going to Europe when I was 18 or 17 almost 18 I guess helped me come to that conclusion. The drinking age is 16 and in no bar I went in did they check my ID. There is NOOOO clubs, bars, drinking problems at an epidemic level like there is here.

I think its because we wait soooo long before its legal and put such a taboo on it that kids naturally take it to an extreme. Kind of like how your kids don't eat as much sweets because they know they can eat it whenever. Obviously not the same thing, but the same principal.

Ryan is quite a bit older, so I am not sure what you can do except talk to him about addiction or give him info on it. DUI is a PITA for real. My DH fell asleep in his car because he didn't want to drive drunk and got one anyways - it suuuuuuuuucked. It was five years ago and it is still a vivid sucky memory.

But anyways, I wouldn't think buying him alcohol is a big deal - as long as it doesn't seem like a problem.


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## AnnieA (Nov 26, 2007)

Yeah, I'm w/Baby_Cakes. I don't think I could buy cigs for my kids. Of course DSS 17 has asthma so bad it would probably kill him if he did try to smoke! Alcohol is different though. My dad's an alcoholic and I didn't drink for a long time because I was worried I would be an alcoholic too. Now DH's family events always involve alcohol but no one gets crazy.

Annie, I wish I could blame my kids' increased activity levels on food allergies but at this point, I'm pretty sure it's genetics!







Now that DD has almost 100% O2 levels, she's proving to be just as much of a busy-tail as her siblings! Now, I will say that they are probably affected by additives and colors but getting them to not have that stuff when it's a mom's house/dad's house situation is impossible.

I meant to mention probiotics to whoever was complaining about the stinky farts. DD farts occasionally but it never stinks. When she was in the hospital and hadn't had a BM for DAYS because of all the narcotics, she had some super stinky farts! Since we've been home and I've restarted her probiotics, no more stinky farts! Her BMs are still a little messed up but she's taking a pretty high dose of ibuprofen. I think it's upsetting her stomach. I'm trying to drop doses because it's been 10 days since surgery.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Finn has awful farts. I'll start giving him the probiotics again and see if it helps.

I wouldn't even buy cigarettes for my mom when she asked me to back when I was 18 or 19 and still living at her house. She would roll her eyes at me and get so annoyed. Lol.

Kat, I forgot to comment!! Your hair looks fantastic!! That wrap is gorgeous. You are the queen of wrapping!! impressive skills!

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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

I don't buy the whole "alcoholism runs in families" thing. I drank to much when I was younger (kids will surely cure you of that!! LOL)

My family is HUGE. Catholic and all.

Alcoholics are on both sides and then there are completely sober people too. Most are in the middle. Even in my immediate family we have the extreme and the never's.

I think it has to do more with personality than anything.

I remember reading in "Awaken the Giant with in" by Tony Robbins about brothers who had an abusive, addicted to drugs and alcohol dad. One went on to do good things with his life and one turned out exactly like his dad. When asked about how they turned out they BOTH answered.

"How could I have turned out any other way with a dad like mine"


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baby_Cakes*
> 
> Why do you buy them for him


Well, he's an adult now. I look at it as not any different than if a friend asked me to pick them up if I was running out to the store. Like I said, I don't like it but I also don't think it's my place to refuse since he is an adult. Does that make sense? Would you refuse to buy cigarettes for a friend or other relative, parent, when you were running out to the store?

WRT the alcohol, this has come up for me because his best friend turned 21 today. So now I'm imagining them going crazy drinking. We've had alcohol on hand and I don't mind if he wants a beer or whatever. He's never drank like crazy at home. It just sort of freaks me out that he's going to be old enough to get as much as he wants whenever he wants.


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## annie2186 (Apr 13, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MarineWife* 

Well, he's an adult now. I look at it as not any different than if a friend asked me to pick them up if I was running out to the store. Like I said, I don't like it but I also don't think it's my place to refuse since he is an adult. Does that make sense? Would you refuse to buy cigarettes for a friend or other relative, parent, when you were running out to the store?
NOPE!







Cig's are nasty. I guess if you would buy them for other people, it would make sense you would buy them for him too.

WRT the alcohol, this has come up for me because his best friend turned 21 today. So now I'm imagining them going crazy drinking. We've had alcohol on hand and I don't mind if he wants a beer or whatever. He's never drank like crazy at home. It just sort of freaks me out that he's going to be old enough to get as much as he wants whenever he wants.


> It happens.............I guess that is when you just have to realize life is what it is........I went a *little* crazy and I was fine.
> At least you don't have to worry about teen pregnancy with four girls


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I wouldn't buy them for anyone. I suppose that's the difference. If I refuse to buy them for my mom, friends, etc, it only makes sense I wouldn't enable that behavior in my child as well.

IM like that with meat, too. Bc I don't eat it or think it's healthy or ethical, I won't buy it for people. I have trouble picking up take out for people when they order things in groups. If a friend ever asked me to buy meat or cigarettes, I'd have to refuse. I'd say sorry and offer an alternative, but I just can't enable people to do things I disagree with.

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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

All our parents smoke - DH's and mine - and I would buy them cigarretes (provided they gave me the $$; I ain't shelling out for those!) - because it's their choice. they've never asked though.

Now, I wouldn't buy any of my children cigarrettes. what's the difference? - I guess it's because my parents have been doing it forever and if they do or don't smoke at this point its really their problem - my buying or not buying cigs for them isn't about to change their smoking habits. But it might make a difference for my children, at least I would hope so.

Alcohol is a different thing - because I do believe it can be enjoyed in moderation with little damage physically or otherwise. I've had friends whose toddlers took sips of their wine and this didn't seem odd to me. Now, I wouldn't fill the sippy cup with it. but if they asked for a sip, I would probably permit a sip - or two - but no more. I agree with whoever said it earlier, that our American ban on it has actually exascerbated the problem, rather than making it any less. (FWIW I feel that way about MJ being illegal too. I don't want to smoke it, and really would rather no one I knew did, but I have read how well it works medicinally in some cases - but that's another topic entirely)

As for meat . . . .if you are vegetarian due to your conscience, I really can't argue with that. I do joke with DH I could far more easily give up meat than carbs - but in my case it wouldn't be due to it being inethical, just because I could.

As for wrapping skills - I watch a lot of youtube! - I am so glad I didn't give up; I was tempted when got my 2nd wrap to give up because I just couldn't get a back carry in it, and that's the whole point, for me, of using woven wraps, is being able to have baby on your back at an early age. Once I did get it though, I love it more each time I wrap!

And Gabe is letting me wrap him, now I am on the hunt for *his* wrap. it's seemingly hard to find and it's bugging me. it's this one because it has owls and is supposed to be major toddler worthy:


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

serial posting because I was having image issues 

Do any of you all have Valentine's Day plans? I haven't thought of any yet, but I need to get cracking.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Ooh that wrap/fabric is so pretty!! I hope you find it. Is it a brand name? What's it made of?

Valentines day!! I'm thinking we'll just go to our thai place down the road for an hour and leave the kids with Grams, but not on the day. It's too crazy to go anywhere then, I think. We'll just have a date night sometime in Feb and count it! LOL!

I've been watching crappy TLC wedding shows on TV in the morning and it makes me want to have a wedding again. And only invite people I want there. And do the whole dress, cake, etc thing again. Chris says for our 25th anniversary we can renew our vows and do it. Ha! Only 20 years to go, lol!!


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

The fabric is 100% cotton (organic) made by a german company called Kokadi. A lot of wrap companies are German or european, I've noticed. Maybe I need to have a friend search german ebay for me. I don't read German! LOL but she does!

ooh, Thai. I love Thai. what about that Vegan restaurant you posted here or on FB? in PA somewhere?

I love watching David Tutera on My Fair Wedding. Where was he when I was getting married??? I'd love to be skinny and have $$ for hair extensions when we renew vows . . . whenever that is. Because I know I'll never really suceed in growing it out.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I love Thai too. The last time I had it was 2 days before I went into labor with Finn. Too long ago!!!

That vegan restaurant is in Philly (there's a lot of good restaurants in philly!!) but I'm not ready to leave Finn for a whole day. It'd be at least an hour drive, plus eating, plus an hour back and I'm just not ready. Maybe for our anniversary in May when I know he'll be able to nibble solids at Grams and not rely so much on taking a bottle.

Yes - where was he for my wedding, too!? My venue was too big for the # of guests I had and the dance floor always looked empty. It was kind of a downer. I had a great time but still -- I know with help we could have done better.

Hey - post wedding photos everyone! I want to see!! I'll dig mine up!!

I can't find many, they must be on a server somewhere. DH has access, I don't on my macbook. I'll keep looking!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I won't and wouldn't pay for the cigarettes, either. And, I certainly wouldn't pick up a pack for my child to try or if he's under age. But Ryan has been smoking for years now. I mean, even if he didn't start until it was legal for him (he started when he was a lot younger), it would still be almost 3 years of smoking. Nothing I do at this point is going to influence him to stop. I don't see smoking as much of an evil thing, either, I guess.







Yeah, it's unhealthy and a waste of money but it's not a definite killer, just like almost everything else human's consume. I see alcohol as way more dangerous. Not only can it cause immediate death from poisoning or just the stupid behavior that comes with consuming too much but it can also cause a lifetime of pain and destruction if it becomes an addiction. I don't like that he smokes, though, and I don't want to enable it, either. But he is an adult, now, and I need to respect that. That's my struggle. I think it's disrespectful to try to impose my personal beliefs on another adult but, obviously, i don't want my child doing something potentially harmful.

I like to watch, Say Yes to the Dress. It makes me want to have a wedding just to get a dress. I don't know if I have any wedding photos on the computer. I may have to scan them.

The only plans I have for Valentine's Day is to get together with my homeschool group so the kids can trade valentines and play. I'm not really big on trading valentines in a group like that. It reminds of doing it in school and some kids would be left out and you could see how hurt they were. At least we're a small enough group and all sensitive to that so I think everyone will give and get a valentine for/from everyone else.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

We made the mistake of having our wedding on a big college game day (we live in the same town as the college) a bunch of people left early to go to the game.

The venue was perfect! I would love to have $$ for a great dress and hair . . . here is the pic - you asked!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Here's the one wedding photo I found on a flash drive. It's grainy because it was printed with a home printer many years ago and scanned onto the computer. I'll check later to see if I can scan a professional one from my album.



Look what else I found while going through my old photos. That's me with Ryan when he was just a few months old, so 1991, and my aunt. I was so lucky my mom promoted babywearing as well as natural childbirth and breastfeeding. With all of our differences, that's probably the most important type of influence she could have had on me.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> Nothing I do at this point is going to influence him to stop. I don't see smoking as much of an evil thing, either, I guess.
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know. A lot of times just knowing someone disapproves is enough to put a bug in their ear about stopping.

Not that evil though? Wow. The cigarette industry is horribly corrupt. Even if you don't think its an instant killer, it's slowly turning his lungs black. Cancer or not, it's not healthy by any means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_tobacco

What I find fascinating is once a smoker quits, after a year or so of being off tobacco, their risks of disease and complications decrease significantly. It reverses. To me that says something powerful about how horrible smoking is for a person.

How about this example....I don't like tattoos. I don't want my kids to ever get them. But, I know I have no right over their body, they can do what they want. I don't have to like it. But I won't drive them to a tattoo place to have one done and sit there with them while they have it done. Theres a difference there, it's subtle but it's there.

I watch Say Yes to the Dress! I love that show! I want to go to Kleinfelds to buy my dress next time. I loved my wedding gown, but I bought the first and only one I tried on! LOL.

I found two wedding pics!!





Kat - gorgeous!! You looked beautiful!

MW - Wow, I love that wedding picture! So natural. And that pic of you babywearing Ryan? Oh goodness, that's so sweet!!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

You look beautiful, Kat. Your husband is so much taller than you!

I really liked our venue. We had it outside at an old B&B in Connecticut, where Sean's family is. The only major screw up was that someone put the bubbles on the ceremony seats when everyone was sitting out in the hot sun and the fans on the reception tables under the tent. My poor grandad almost passed out from the heat.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Loving the wedding pics!

MW: your venue is lovely - ours was outside too, except the food and stuff was inside.

I do think it's cool that so much of the damage from cigarettes is reversible.

My parents actually did drive, and pay for, my sister's tatoo on her 18th birthday. LOL

I wish my mom had been more of a natural childbirth/parenting sort of person, but at least she's supportive. MIL keeps asking if I need help when I'm getting Norah on my back. I mean, I know it looks awkward (ya'll have SEEN videos) but she is normally actually pretty happy now, even while being wrapped. There really isn't anything anyone - even one who knows what I'm doing - can help other than make sure I don't drop her.

I got married in October to avoid the heat! and yeah, DH is 6 foot 6. I am 4 foot 11. when I stand super, super straight!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

We keep cross posting. My computer is being funny and keeps getting hung up.

Carrie ~ You look beautiful, too, of course. That is a beautiful dress. Sometimes you only have to see that one to know it's right. I tried on several but bought the first one even though everyone else was pushing a different one on me. I love my dress but next time I'd like to have something more flowy.

I know cigarrettes are bad. I know they can cause health problems. I'm not arguing that they don't, but so can many other things. Caffiene is an addictive substance that can harm the body. Sugar is horrible on the body. Should I refuse to pick him up a soda or let him have a piece of cake? If my adult child was going to get a tattoo, I think I'd make a point of going to help ensure the place he was going was clean and safe. I keep comparing smoking with alcohol because I see them as sort of the same. They are both legal intoxicants that can wreak havoc on one's health. The thing with a cigarettes is that you can still live a productive life while smoking. With an alcohol addiction, you can't.


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarineWife*
> The only major screw up was that someone put the bubbles on the ceremony seats when everyone was sitting out in the hot sun and the fans on the reception tables under the tent. My poor grandad almost passed out from the heat.


Oh no!

Our venue numbered all the tables backwards. Immediate family and important friends were in the back, farthest away from us, and people we didn't know that well were up front. I was livid. But what can you do?? You can't ask people to move after they've all been seated!


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## Baby_Cakes (Jan 14, 2008)

I think I see what you're saying. I just disagree.







I don't think comparing smoking to eating sugar or caffeine is comparing apples to apples, unless you're talking about people with unhealthy addictions to those things. And I could argue that there are some very high functioning alcoholics.

Plus with smoking comes 2nd hand smoke and the fact that it can harm others who don't smoke themselves. I mean, sure alcoholics can harm other people with their actions, but it's not quite the same.

Does Ryan smoke in the house or in the car with the younger boys?


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

No, he doesn't smoke in our house or with the boys. He's never in the car with them unless he's with me he doesn't smoke in my car. I would not put the boys in his car.

I don't disagree with you. That's why I'm struggling with this. Where do _I_ draw the line when it comes to behaviors that I disagree with? My brother smokes and, if he gave me the money and asked me to get him a pack while I was out, I would do it without a second thought. I'm trying to reconcile how that's different than doing it for my adult child other than the fact that he will always be my child no matter how old he gets. It seems wrong, maybe hypocritical, for me to do it for one and not the other. My brother is also an alcoholic, I think (no one else in my family will acknowledge it). He's functioning in the sense that he does work when he can find it. He's not living on the streets drinking out of a paper bag. He's never been arrested for any drinking offenses. But he's never been able to hold down a steady job for long and he's never had a job that fully supports him. He still relies on my mother to support him at the age of 44.

We had a small enough wedding that there wasn't anyone we didn't know and all the tables were set in a circle around the center. The only seating problem we had was that one friend of mine that didn't know anyone else ended up seated at a table by herself. Thankfully, my aunt and uncle moved to sit with her or invited her to sit with them (I can't remember which) so she wasn't alone. I didn't even know about it until afterward. I was mortified but my friend wasn't upset.

My stepsister got in a huge fight with her husband over a toast. I was completely unaware of that until years later.









I'm trying to scan some more wedding photos but my printer is not cooperating.


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

Ok, this was ridiculous. I had to take photos of my photos with my phone, send them to FB and then copy them onto my computer to post them here. There are very poor quality but the best I can do. My special Koday printer/scanner that's supposed to be great for working with photos can't scan anything to either my card or flash drive.

This is me, Sean and Ryan



This is us getting ready to cut the cake.



These are just for fun. (Showing off a little bit at how muscular and lean I was back then.







)


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

I go back to what someone (JJ? Mom2One?) said about drinking in Europe and other countries: I think here it's so much a problem because it's a bit Taboo, and not just part of everyday life. I think alcohol can be consumed in moderation or even just occasionally/socially and not cause anyone any harm. Granted one time of excess can do heaps of damage, but you would have less of those if people were taught how to drink. Instead, most learn in college and as an adult away from moderating influences. and in college, a lot of people do a lot of things to excess.

smoking, OTOH, doesn't tend to happen in moderation or socially. It is almost always an addiction. With the exception of cigar and pipe smokers who do tend to use much less tobacco and less often. (DH has the occasional cigar or pipe. Maybe once every few months, so it's very occasional) For me, that's the difference.

and I don't know why, but I would buy a friend or relative a drink, or a pack of cigarettes, but I wouldn't buy my child cigarettes. ever. I would buy them a drink, because I don't see buying them one drink as contributing to an addiction (unless of course one of my children becomes an alchoholic).

and on that subject, I don't necessarily think alcoholism is genetic. I do think some people are more pre-disposed to it than others. And if it is something you know several family members struggle with, it might be wise to maybe moderate yourself more than you otherwise would.

Our wedding was just appetizers and stuff; no sit down meal. (cheaper and also, you get to mingle more) The only goof was that we meant to have champagne passed, but no toast (because, really, who wants to do that?) and when we told the coordinater person no toast, she thought not to pass the champagne. oh well. We didn't have a bar at all, open or not, because my cousin did and has pictures of every (man) mooning the camera. seriously, they lined up and mooned it. at the wedding, not a bachelor party or something. I didn't want that. And my maid of honor got cut off at Hooters once (she is a silly, laughing, drunk sort of person) and I didn't want that either.

on 2nd hand smoke: do you know how often I have to remind people not to hold the baby while they smoke?! not just the 2nd hand smoke, but also it is a potential burning issue too. what if the baby grabs the cigarette? GRRR it's a big pet peeve of mine. I don't make people change clothes and everything to hold a baby (there are those moms that do ask) shoot, I don't even make them wash their hands. (but I appreciate if they do) - you would think they could at least not smoke and hold her at the same time.

While I'm in rant mode (LOL) - one of DH's cousins with a baby a month younger than Norah was asking about starting rice cereal on FB. I was the ONLY ONE saying hold off. everyone said, sure, it'll help them sleep. Not one person asked her WHY she wants to give him cereal. He is formula fed, but still. or told her that it's a useless thing to feed babies anyway. *sigh* rant over.


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## akind1 (Jul 16, 2009)

oh, and love the muscle pics!


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## MarineWife (May 1, 2004)

I can't believe people wouldn't know not to hold a baby while smoking! Even Ryan and his friends know that. They won't even walk close to us if he's smoking.

I don't really know what to think contributes to the drinking problems we have in this country. It could be the puritanical rules that the country adopted. Although, the settlers drank alcohol and smoked MJ regularly. Neither was illegal and MJ/hemp was one of the countries earliest major cash crops. I don't really know the stats on drinking in other countries. I've heard the stories about how it's not as much of a problem but then I've also heard and seen that people definitely do drink to excess in Europe. Maybe the excess drinking just isn't seen as much of a problem.









Trying a cigarette or smoking socially for a little while does not necessarily lead to addiction, either. I've known people who've done that and then just decided they were over it. I don't really know what leads one to addiction, either. I tend to think that there is some sort of biological component but it's not necessarily hereditary. In other words, just because a relative has an addiction doesn't mean that you necessarily will be predisposed to addiction or that you are safe from addiction because no one in your family ever had one. Does that make sense? That's what scares me about the whole addiction thing. You just never know who might be susceptible or when it could hit. One taste of a drink could throw a person over the edge, maybe not immediately but eventually. There's no way to predict that.

It's February so I started a new thread: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1343936/february-2012-whatever-ladies-and-babies#post_16858542


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## somebao (Apr 1, 2014)

Here is the most helpful list I've found so far:

http://www.hrhtips.com/tips-to-wash-cloth-diapers/

MW - sooo much to comment on what you said but no time! When I come back tonight I will!!

Oh and I forgot to mention I tried the one-arm-out of the swaddle last night and he slept pretty well. He slept from about 830 til I fed him at 11 or so (he didn't wake up, it was a dream feed), and then again til 2 ish and then again til 4 ish. I finally put both his arms back in after 4 am (he wasn't settling) and he slept til about 645!! Not bad. Especially for trying something new.


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## pokeyac (Apr 1, 2011)

somebao, Welcome to Mothering! It looks like your post is in the wrong place. If you could tell me where it belongs, I can move it for you.
Thank you,
Pokey


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