# 19 yr old living at home--limits?



## birthpartner

I'm at odds with my 19 yr old DS about limits while living under my roof. I don't want to be unreasonable, I was raised with limits and respect for my parents. My son expects to be able to live here and have all the freedom his little heart desires. If he wants to stay out all night for example he doesn't feel like he should have to ask us or give us any explainations. He feels as though he is being treated like a baby. He reminds me that he has never been in trouble with the law, so I should trust him. He does have a good level head, but he has done a few things in the past which I didn't like. He moved out for about 5 weeks a few months ago and was asking to come back at the end of the summer. We made an agreement for him to move back right away and sign up for summer term at his community college. He has not been doing well at college and I feel that some of the problem stems from his social life. The limits are in place to try to help and keep him respecting us. He feels strongly that he wants to move back out because he has no freedom. He is not being realistic, he won't make it financially on his own, as he quickly found out last time.
Does anyone have this situation? Am I being too strict or should there be a curfew. I had a 2 am curfew until he moved back in and then we bumped it back to midnight. The other night he stayed out all night when I told him he couldn't do that. I was ready to kick him out that next morning. I just allowed him to have a weekend at the beach with his friend, so its not like I'm not allowing him to have some freedom. His theory is that if he were in a dorm he could do whatever--to which I said, but you are not in a dorm, you are in our home. Am I old fashioned? I have 2 younger teens in the house and I want to set a good example.

Any advice would be appreciated









Mom to 19 DS, 16 DD and 13 DD and wife to DH


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## momfirst

I have an 18 year old DD...isn't this a fun age??!!!







I'm sort of in the same boat as you. My DD wants all the freedom, but none of the responcibility.

I have a rule that when she goes out, I need to know where she's going, who she's with and when she's coming home (and since she doesn't drive, I want to know how she is getting to and from where she is going). She thinks this is a nosey thing. I tell her it is a respect and safety issue. I don't really have a curfew for my DD, as long as she tells me when she's coming home (or that she's not coming home). I do tell her that it's hard for me to get to sleep before she comes home so I would appreciate her coming home at a sensible time if she's coming home.

As for the late nights causing a problem at school...that's something that he'll have to figure out on his own. He is right that if he were at a dorm, he would come and go as he pleased and you would either trust him to make good choices and you wouldn't know what he was doing. You are right that he's not at a dorm, so he does need to show some consideration to those he 'rooms' with. You said he has a good head on his shoulders, so trust him to spread his wings a bit. He'll probably test the waters and then figure out what's right for him. As long as he's not breaking family morals, I'd cut him some slack. If he feels that you are holding him back, he may just do things to spite you...

Good luck! I feel for you!


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## soygurl

Well, I'm gonna have to agree more with your DS... If he is old enough to live on his own, and had done that before, he is old enough to decide when and where to go on his free time. I think he is quite a bit past the curfue stage.

Now, that's not to say you can't have any rules.... feel free! Make it clear to him what he is to do to help out at home, what types of grades he should be getting in college, what types of things you will or will not do to help him (reminders, playing alarm clock, etc.), and what types of things will get him "kicked out."

He needes to learn himself, how to decide when to go out and when to stay home and study, as well as a lot of other growing up skills. These things should not interfear with him remembering how to respect you, lol!

Of course, there might be another option... would you be willing to consider helping him our financially while he is in school, even if he is living away from home? My parents did this with me when I was in college and it worked very well. They covered my rent and and gave me a set amount for food, and I was to either have a part time job to pay for eating out and having fun (movies, concerts, cell phone, internet, etc.) or suffer without all those nice "extras." I also had to maintain a certain GPA. Of course, this may not be an option for your family, but I though I'd throught it out as an idea...

~Kelsie


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## birthpartner

I guess I should have included more background to the situation with my DS. We have had issues with him all through HS. He's a smart kid, but really didn't care about doing homework, studying etc unless he liked the class. We didn't know until after final exams if he would pass the 12th grade. So, he didn't choose not to go to a college with a dorm, he didn't earn the ability to choose it. Now with the community college, my arrangement with him was that we would pay for classes, but if he didn't get an A or B, he would have to pay us back. Never thought we would have to talk about withdrawals either, but he's had a couple of those. Books, we pay for, but he doesn't care to wait in the line to buy used ones--we are paying so he buys new ones. So needless to say his debt with us has grown and although he is working we don't seem to get paid as much as we should with each pay check. He does spend a lot on gas since his school is 35 miles away, but he also blows money on his smoking habbit and whatever he feels he has to have like new speakers for his car etc. The last time I showed him the door, it was after I found some pot in his room. This was just after I had to take him to the ER the morning after he went to a party and fell into a chair rail--due to him being on booze and pot. He claims he just does this on special occassions, but I'm sure those are not just Christmas and his birthday. He is smart in that he doesn't get into some of the other stuff that his circle of friends will get into including laughing gas.
He's smart enough to not drink and drive, so in that respect I don't worry. If he was not like this in the past, perhaps I would feel comfortable with allowing him to make a decision on what time to come home. I just know that he would abuse the right to do that. Last night, we had an open discussion about this which lasted about 5 minutes before he didn't hear what he wanted to hear, he started yelling and packed his stuff. He is making an issue about respect and the curfuew being one in the same. I asked him what respect he has for us--Fathers Day weekend we let him go to the beach with his friend and he didn't even call his Dad. I can't understand the concept of him being able to come and go as though this is an apartment, but still letting him have whatever he wants without a struggle. And if I allow that to happen he would suddenly be a great student and help around the house and whatever else he threw in there. Am I missing something here? He is taking 3 summer classes now--that was the agreement we made when he moved back in from last time. So far he has one ongoing math class which I think he's doing average in, one that he already failed and another that just started that he said we really hard--this translates into a warning that he will probably get a D or an F. I don't want to front him any more money for college at this point.
I love my DS and want to do the right thing, its just we have been through so much to this point that I don't want to make the wrong parenting choices anymore.







I am crying just having recounted all of these situations and I didn't even touch on his past girlfriend situations--I'm sure you all can imagine where that went.
I would love any suggestions. He's probably going to show up this afternoon for the rest of his stuff. He is moving back in the apartment with his friend that got kick out of UNCW for drunk driving on campus. That kid will go back to his college in January and I don't know where my DS will go from there. He's already talking about taking off a semester to work full time.
I hope this helps to evaluate my unfortunite situation.
Thanks in advance!


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## skybluepink02

I'm sad to say, but this is what caused me to move out of my parent's house and in with my boyfriend when I was that age. My mother set really unreasonable limits (which you may not be, I'm just putting my experiance). She snooped in my stuff, told me that I couldn't go to the beach unless an adult was present (I was almost 20) and really made my life hard.

Look at it from your son's perspective. He has lived alone for a year or more. Even if it was in the dorm, he was living on his own. He decideds when to study, eat, go out, and anything else. It is extremely hard to go back living with parents at all, but when parents treat you the same as they did in high school, it's harder.

Now I'm not saying that you can't enforce rules that respect your house. Tell him up front that you aren't asking him to be back at a certain time, but to please give you a time that he will be back. Ask him if he comes in past a certain time that he has to be respectful of others sleeping. Make it clear that you don't allow anyone to use drugs or alcohol in your house. It is your house.

Lastly, make it clear that he is paying some kind of rent. Make it a more landlord/tenent issue rather than a mother/child issue. The "rent" can be a set list of chores since he is living in the house. It can be monentary rent, or anything that the two of you agree is fair compensation for the privilige of living at home. Because if he is going to be adult, he needs to be fully adult.

This is a hard time for teens as well as parents. They are supposed to be independent and stand alone, yet they are expected to automatically switch that off when they come to your house and be a kid again. It's a hard switch to make.

He is going to make mistakes, lower grades some, but he will figure it out. It takes practice to be a grown-up and you can't learn any other way than by doing it and making your own mistakes. It's really tempting to try to shield them, but in the end, they will only rebell worse and possibly cause a big rift, which is what happened to me. I'm not proud of it, but I look back at it now and realize that I was trying to make my own way in the world, but my Mom just wasn't ready to let me go. I have regrets about how I handled it, but I also have deep feelings of mistrust to this day with my Mom. I hope you can handle this with more grace than she and I did. Good Luck!


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## thismama

Okay well I don't have a teenager, but here is my opinion fwiw: If it were me, I would contract with him what your obligations are, and what his are while he is living in the home. For example, if he needs to do xyz chores, be passing at school, good. If he doesn't do these things, I would let him know what the specific consequence is, and follow through. What do you want him to do while he is living with you? You are allowing him to live at home so he can accomplish what exactly? I would contract with him for those obligations, and nothing more.

Beyond that, I would leave him alone. Leave him alone about the weekends at the beach, curfew, all of that stuff is overly involved and meddlesome IMO. He is old enough to make his own choices, and if he makes choices not to follow through with his end of the agreement.

You can respect him without allowing yourself to be walked on.


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## Marsupialmom

I would not set a curfew for a 19 year old adult but we have a family rule that we call and let people know what is up so there is no worry. This means my dh and I both let our kids know when we will be getting home. My children are not that old but we already do it. We will tell the kids we are going out will get home at XYZ and pick them up from grand-ma's at XYZ. We ask for calls to and from homes, et. It is a behavior or curitosy. If your son has a cell phone there is no reason he cannot easily call you and say "I am at a party I will be home late." and you prettend not to do the mommy worry.

I also would make him pay rent and if that means eviction, that means eviction









Let him fail but you don't have to pay for it. Let him go out and fail when he is ready help him out. Some people are not ready for other school at 19 because they haven't lived enough life to figure out what they want. Once he does wether it is 5 years or 10 years help him out. Let him fumble, let him take the responciblity of his fumbles, love him, then help him out when he has figured out things.


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## PancakeGoddess

I can really see how the other teens in the house make a difference, and you'd want them to see some ba. I've always thought I'd gladly allow older teens to live at home for as long as they'd like, but at some point they pay their own way. If the dc is paying some rent and expenses, he shouldn't have a curfew. If he's still being heavily financially supported, I'd be more inclined to think that parental limits are fair.

It also depends on what those "bad choices" in his past were... if staying out later is going to increase the likelihood that he'll do things that could endanger himself or other family members, I'd also say no. If they were just irresponsible decisions with no great outcome, then nevermind.

Also, it seems like calling to check in and give people basic info about where we are is a reasonable thing to ask of any family member. I'd be much more firm about that than the arrival time.


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## MCatLvrMom2A&X

I stayed at home till I got married at 22yo. There were a few rules but not that strict at all. If I was going out I had to tell them were I was going and about what time I would be home. Just so that if something happened there would know were to start looking. The only rule about coming home really late was I had to be very carefull about waking them up because my dad had to work the next day usually and he has trouble sleeping.

As far as making a someone pay rent I am 100% against that. Now I had a job from 18yo on after I graduated but I was never expected to pay for living in my home. I did however volunteer money when it was needed and was happy to do so. My younger brother is 32yo and still at home and no he dosnt pay rent but he does help out were he can. It is his home as much as my parents so paying rent IMHO is just wrong.

I wouldnt let a child take advantage of me but when I had mine I fully expect to take care of them as long as they live here be it 18-80yo I will expect them to act in a responsable manner and let me know were to look for them if I have to but I will not be setting many rules after they reach adulthood.


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## UUMom

I think the hardest thing about older kids livng at home is that parents watch them do things that we don't want to watch. lol We are woken up at odd hours by people coming in the door, or worry they are dead on the road when they don't come home. I don't have a child as old as yours, but that is what I can anticipate happening for me if I were in a such a situation.

If the child is in a dorm you aren't woken up by him coming in, and you just don't know what is going on. You can put the worry on a back burner. Most people in college do ridiculous things sometimes, but we mostly didn't tell our parents while it was happening. No parent really wants to know that their kid got drunk, puked and passed out somewhere dangerous. I think college life protects parents' emotional worry state, to a degree. Ok, call it denial. But really, some things are better kept from nervous parents.

If a child comes home drunk sometimes, as yours has, and he hurts himself because of it, and you have to bring him to the ER, you are even more worried it will happen again. I am not sure that wanting some reasonable limits is meddlesome, I think it's more about being a concerned mother. Worry is hugely stressful to you. I don't think you are wrong to not want to have to deal with that every day by a child who doesn't seem to mind worrying you. He may be doing what a lot of Americans see as normal kid behavior, but it doesn't make it less difficult for parents to watch, kwim?

You could do the tenant/landlord thing, but he may still treat you like his mother, rather than with the respect he'd give a landlord. It's a lot easier to blow off the money you own your parents, kiwm? And if you puke all over the partment rug, you have to pay to clean or eplce it. No such thing with your parents. You could avoid paying them forever and they wouldn't keep your security deposit. Plus, the landlord doesn't care if you fall off the balcony and die, but your mother does. It's just not the same sort of relationship, and I don't see how it could be. Emotions are so intense on both sides.

It's hard, and I've not btdt, but as the mother of a teen, I could see how I might worry if I were in this situation.

He's probably better off living on his own for a time and working. It sounds like he is just not ready or interested in college. I would encourage him to live on his own and work for a time. He might find himself.


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## birthpartner

He was only out of the house for about 5 weeks when we asked him to leave last time. That was about 2 months ago and he did ask to come back and agreed to the rules we agreed upon. One of the stipulations was to be back in school with decent grades for the summer. The other rule was the curfuew, which he was good about following. It was going great except for his stuggle with school. We let him go on the weekend away as a bonus and then he came back with the attitude that he shouldn't have to follow our rules anymore. Again, if he were a kid that would have had respect for us in the past, then I would feel totally comfortable knowing that I could trust him to not abuse the right to come and go as he pleases. I believe it depends on the kid and how mature they are. I gave him plenty of space while living here. I didn't expect more of him then mowing the grass once a week. If he called me to say his battery wasn't working and he had to go to school, I was right there to hand him my car keys--despite the fact that he knew he needed to check on things like oil & tires etc once in awhile. When he moved out last time, he was learning quickly how easy he had it here--it hit him in the wallet, but I think it wasn't long enough for his memory to be that vivid.
You guys have made some good points and I will give them some consideration, but I feel like it has to be a two way street and with him its his way or nothing. He wants independence without responsibility.


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## Yoshua

haven't read any of the replies but this is my input on what you said in the OP.

Your 19 yr old son is an adult. Yes he is still living at home, but he is an adult. This is another one of those 'phases' in life where he is trying to stretch out and see what being an adult is like.

Having a safe haven to come back to (home) is a great thing in this time, so long as it is a haven.

Honestly if you feel you 'have' to lay down the law, you should do it as a 'room mate' more than a parent. And if those boundaries can't be set you will wind up having a 'room mate' who feels inferior.

Room mates should 'respect' eachother on being quiet when coming home at night, not bringing frineds in after X:XX time, pitching in on bills, pitching in on food.

If you want to let him live there rent free, GREAT! but don't make him pay for it in other aspects of his life.

This is a time of trial and error, he has to be able to make those little mistakes we all made between 18-23ish so he knows not to make them later.

I didn't move out of my mom's place until I was 22. I got married and got a place of my own that year. But from 18-22 i paid 1/3rd of all the bills in the house to make sure it was a 'room mate' situation and not a 'parent still telling me what to do' situation. I took it on myself to make it into a 'room mate' situation but most people won't.

He is an adult, a young adult but an adult none the less. To treat him like a child is almost insulting even though he IS YOUR CHILD and YOUR PRIDE AND JOY. He is a man now too.

I gave my mom courtesy calls most of the times when I wasn't coming home, but not all the time and she respected that I would remember when i did and not tell me I had to call and check in to say I wasn't coming home.

I did it more to respect her and let her know she didnt have to leave the door unlocked or stay up at all.


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## mommy68

At 19 I'd say he should not have a curfew (even though he IS still a teenager). I see nothing wrong with rules in your own house though. If he can't abide by the rules you set then he needs to find his own place. He also needs to be working, atleast part-time and showing that he can earn a living of his own AND help out in some sort of way around the house, not only with bills necessarily but even housework and child care of the younger kids.

Not "every" 19 yr old lives outside the home. I didn't move out until I was almost 23. I even have an ex-BF that is still living at home and he is almost 42 years old.







Consider yourself lucky your child is still a *teenager* while living at home!


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## mommy68

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Marsupialmom*
I also would make him pay rent and if that means eviction, that means eviction










But he's ONLY 19 years old?? He might be considered a man by many laws, but he is still a "teen"ager at this point. He needs guidance from other adults around him that can show him how to make the right decisions and how to live right (including his parents). I see nothing wrong with him making mistakes while still living at home, even if it includes getting drunk or making other adult mistakes. He's still their child.







My son will be 19 in only eight more years and I'd hate to think I'd want to just shuck him out of the house at that age just because I feel he is an adult since he is over the age of 18. There's no way I could do that. I'd rather him come home here drunk (hopefully not tho) than to be God knows where doing bad things and potentially getting hurt or killed at such a young age. Yes, 19 is still young to me. Look what happened to that poor Natalie girl in Aruba at 18 years old. I'm sure her mom thought she was a mature adult too.


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## Yoshua

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68*
But he's ONLY 19 years old?? He might be considered a man by many laws, but he is still a "teen"ager at this point. He needs guidance from other adults around him that can show him how to make the right decisions and how to live right (including his parents). I see nothing wrong with him making mistakes while still living at home, even if it includes getting drunk or making other adult mistakes. He's still their child.







My son will be 19 in only eight more years and I'd hate to think I'd want to just shuck him out of the house at that age just because I feel he is an adult since he is over the age of 18. There's no way I could do that. I'd rather him come home here drunk (hopefully not tho) than to be God knows where doing bad things and potentially getting hurt or killed at such a young age. Yes, 19 is still young to me. Look what happened to that poor Natalie girl in Aruba at 18 years old. I'm sure her mom thought she was a mature adult too.










I paid rent at 18. 1/3rd of all the bills. If he wants to be treated like an adult he should take on the responsibilities. Paying 1 equal portion of the bills in the house is more than fair so long as you aren't in a house that costs 2.5k a month in rent.

300-450 a month for a room is more than reasonable at 18 and forces them to get out into the world and learn how the world works.


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## Dawn38

I agree with the pp.

My bil still lives with his mom at the age of 24. He doesn't work or help at with house work. She didn't set boundries when he was younger so he wont follow them now.

I wouldn't give dc a curfew but I would try to make him understand how stressful it is when you don't know where your child is or when they are comeing home.

If he is wanting to take a semester off and get a full time job, then I would say go ahead. It will give him a chance to see what it is like to work a full time job. And how it takes up alot of your time. He may just not be ready to be in college. Some kids need a break from high shool to college.

This is just my opinion though. I haven't btdt yet. I don't look forward to it either.









I hope everything works out to everybodys satisfaction! (if that is possible)


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## MidwifeErika

I see nothing wrong with setting some ground rules if he is living in your home, and not as a tennant. So, if that means a household curfew, then I see nothing wrong with it. I wouldn't tell him it is because of his grades or anything like that, but because that is the time of night that you want everyone in the house and the house locked up. I don't have teenagers myself, but was one just a few years back







At 19 I was married, so I didn't have to follow any rules, but I was acting as an adult. I paid my own bills, lived on my own, took care of all my responsibilities. There was one month that i lived with my parents between basic training and moving out of state (just a few months before I got married), and while I stayed with my parents, I respected them and their rules. They were letting me stay there for free, it was their home, and I didn't want to display an ungrateful attitude for my younger siblings. It wasn't a big deal to tell my parents where I was going, who I was going to be with, and what time I was going to be back for the evening.... or if I was staying with a friend that night. They appreciated that they didn't have to worry about me and I appreciated being welcomed into the home even though I was an adult.

I don't know for sure if a curfew is the answer, but maybe just he could tell you when he plans to be home whenever he goes out? Or if he plans to not come home, it would be nice for you to know that ahead of time as well? Of course, in the end it is your home and so if he wants to live there then he should be willing to live with whatever conditions come with that. Otherwise he can move out and have his freedom, but have the responsibilities that come with that freedom.


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## choli

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birthpartner*
Fathers Day weekend we let him go to the beach with his friend

You "let" your 19 yr old go to the beach with his friend?







:

I would consider you having to give permission for that to be WAY overcontrolling. Same with a curfew.

Frankly, I think your son should move out and stand on his own two feet. That or pay rent, do his share of the chores of running the home, and be treated as an adult. But treating him as a child that needs permission to go to the beach with a friend is doing neither of you any favors.


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## PoppyMama

It's your house and you have the right to have it be comfortable for you and if you're going to pay for his school you have the right to have him get at least Cs. If he was on financial aid he'd have to get Cs and not drop too many classes. He sounds a bit immature (understandable) and you sound like you're treating him like a minor. He isn't a minor anymore and he won't mature being treated like one. A curfew at nineteen (midnight?) is ridiculous and "allowing" him to go away for the weekend is also ridiculous. It sounds like it would be much better if he moved out and the school rules were the only ones that applied.


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## PancakeGoddess

yk, I don't think the 18-21 age range is as simple as it used to be.

Making sweeping statements about those kids being "adults" is pretty unreasonable, IMO. Legally they're adults, fine, whatever. But the reality is that the world is complicated and getting more complicated.

I intend to take things a day at a time with my children forever, not just until their magic birthday. If they seem to need involved parenting at 19, I plan to keep giving it, doing that difficult dance between standing back and stepping in, just as I do with my younger kids.

I do hope that my kids will be making their own choices wrt curfew and outings when they are that age, because I'd rather not get into a power struggle, insisting on compliance that I legally can't demand.

I just don' t think this "he's an adult, he needs to get on his feet and survive" mentality is very helpful or realistic for some kids.


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## Pynki

When I was 19 I lived at home with my dad and my step mom. I had to pay rent and the still wanted to be able to enforce rules on me. I finally said look. I pay you $300/month to live here. I could get a fairly nice apartment on $300/month and be closer to work and not have to worry about you yelling at me for not getting the dishes done, and I wouldn't have to watch my baby sister.

I did move out about 5 months into the deal. Work, and rent, and rules just REALLY didn't mix for me. If I was paying them to live there they didn't get to be my parents too.

Also 3 summer classes is a LOT of classes and work in a REALLY compacted time frame.

I'm taking 2 classes and it's HARD. I'm taking them online so I have access to them whenever I have free time, and it is still HARD. I can't IMAGINE being able to take 3 and still have a job on top of that.

I think you are expecting too much authoritiy over a 19 yr old person. He may still be YOUR child, but he isn't A child.


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## choli

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess*
yk, I don't think the 18-21 age range is as simple as it used to be.

Making sweeping statements about those kids being "adults" is pretty unreasonable, IMO. Legally they're adults, fine, whatever. But the reality is that the world is complicated and getting more complicated.
their magic birthday. If they seem to need involved parenting at 19, I plan to keep giving it, doing that difficult dance between standing back and stepping
I intend to take things a day at a time with my children forever, not just until in, just as I do with my younger kids.

I do hope that my kids will be making their own choices wrt curfew and outings when they are that age, because I'd rather not get into a power struggle, insisting on compliance that I legally can't demand.

I just don' t think this "he's an adult, he needs to get on his feet and survive" mentality is very helpful or realistic for some kids.

You know, there are women on MDC that became mothers at a younger age than the young man in question. I myself was living away from home, working full time, supporting myself and sending money back home at a year younger than 19. If someone had suggested a midnight curfew to me I would have been pretty insulted. That just strikes me as a ridiculous attempt to retain the sort of control more suited to a 9 yr old than to a person old enough to vote, marry, go to war, etc.

How did the OP come to "find" the pot in his room?

If the OP does not want to pay for his school any more then don't pay it. It makes more sense than paying for it then expecting him to pay rent, I think. When he is paying for it himself he will take it much more seriously than when it is being handed to him. If that means that it takes a few years before he realizes the importance of school, the world won't end. He may even find that he does not need a college education to get the kind of work he will enjoy best.


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## pookel

I can't imagine having a curfew enforced on me at age 19. I would have been insulted too. I haven't had a curfew since ... well, ever. When I was old enough to be going out late at night, the house rule was that I had to tell my parents where I was (relevant info in pre-cell phone days) and that I not wake them up by being noisy when I came home. IMO, it is OK to enforce house rules that are important to *your* life (e.g., "don't wake us up coming in late," "don't leave wet towels on the floor"), but not rules that you're imposing solely for "his own good." He's an adult, and you should treat him like one.


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## WNB

I think the "rules" for living in the house should be set up based on consensus built between adults.

I think the decisions about rent, bill paying, school tuition payments, etc. should be made as parents.

it may seem like an arbitrary distinction, but I don't think it is. Any other place he chooses to live, unless he finds an apartment all to himself, he's going to have to come to some agreement about ground rules with his roommate(s). Most likely, these agreements are going to be based on consensus, rather than one party telling the other(s) how it's going to be. So I would follow the same model with your son.

Regarding the finances of the arrangement, and your concern for his continued education, that seems like a more appropriate area for "parental discretion" -- i.e., where you can just say, this is how it's going to be. Either you pay, or you don't, or you contribute X toward the expenses... whatever you feel will be in his best interest.

I don't think you should set conditions for paying that are a function of respecting the basic ground rules you've agreed upon for living there. If he's not respecting the ground rules -- or you aren't -- invoking the "or else we won't pay" clause seems to eliminate the whole aspect of consensus and mutual respect for each other on which the rules were based in the first place.


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## Joannarachel

If he is living rent-free as a child under your roof, I think you are within your rights to set limits.

If he is not, I would suggest drawing up a renter's agreement (including rent, LOL), and treating him as you would any other tenant.


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## crissei

Uh... you gave him permission to go to the beach? I married my DH at (barely)19 and I didn't have to get permission.








I know of course age has really little to do with maturity level but, I still can't imagine even an immature 19 year old having to ask permission to go somwhere.


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## Storm Bride

Personally, I don't think a curfew is reasonable at 19. But, I agree that he should be expected to check in. I don't see that as an overcontrolling parenting thing. I see it as basic courtesy to people you live with. If dh is going to be home late from work, he lets me know. When I was living at mom's as an adult (I stayed until I was 23 and did pay room & board), I told her where I was...and so did the other two women living there. If I went to my fiance's place, and was planning to come home, I called if I changed my mind and spent the night. That's not about trying to control someone, imo. It's about not making people worry unnecessarily. If someone (any age) tells me they'll be home at 10:00, and midnight comes and goes, I do start to wonder if something happened to them. Why would I expect my dh to call me if things change, but not expect the same courtesy from my kids?


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## mama_bee

while i don't have a teenager, i am just barely older than your son and i have a few opinions on the matter. while he's still your son, *he is an adult*. he should be treated as such. "allowing" him to hang out with his friends and setting unreasonable boundaries will only make him resent you. i think if you're going to set rules, they need to be made in the mindset of being roommates, NOT as a parent of a child. i think calling if he'll be late, checking in occasionally and so forth is reasonable. setting a curfew? ridiculous.

your DS makes a great point when he says if he lived elsewhere, he wouldn't be held to these standards. sure, it's your home but you've essentially invited him to stay as an adult, a roommate, an *EQUAL* -- not a child.


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## doulamomvicki

This is the general jist of our agreement with ds#1 who is 17 and just graduated from high school.
- We love you ds very much and want to see you reach all your goals.
- We do not need you to live in our home - we can manage without you








- We expect you to contribute to the household (chores, pick up sibs) as we all do because you are a member of the household.
- You when you are 18 you do not have a curfew unless you are driving our car. Then it is midnight. If you are not driving and plan to stay out past 12am you must let us know. Mom won't sleep from worry if you don't call and will be cranky the next day







:
- You can continue to have friends over the house as long as they are respectful.
- We expect you to continue to not use drugs or alcohol.
- You need to pay for your car insurance, gas and maintenance. Insurance is due on the 7th of every month.
- If there are disputes that arise or concerns about these rules we will discuss them at a set time using our "Fair Fighting Agreement"
-You can continue to live here as long as you are in school. When you are no longer in school, we will meet to discuss move out date and timeline.
This agreement was signed by ds, me and dh.

I know, I know. I am sure everyone here thinks I am crazy, but we did this to prevent any "misunderstandings" with our soon to be adult child - our expectations are spelled out. We have no problem with him staying here as long as he continues to grow and work towards his goals. I don't want to be so controlling of him that he resents dh and I. He needs to enjoy life and his accomplishments. But on the other hand I don't want to resent him for causing me to worry, being irresponsible, not being productive, etc, KWIM?
So far there is peace on the home front - any disputes have been discussed and dealt with.

-


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## PancakeGoddess

I've seen it so much in this thread, that a 19yo is an adult. I'm curious why so many are willing to just take this arbitrary legal thing and turn it into an emotional/developmental reality for all kids.

We certainly don't do that with the rest of our kids' milestones - especially on MDC. What if I said, well he's SEVEN, so he must be able to read, or he's THREE so he must be potty-trained? I'm not suggesting we lord over young adults, because of course we can't even legally get away with that, but just that we think critically about this arbitrary age thing that's so popular. Every person has their own pace/path.

I dunno... I said it in my other post way back there, but I think a lot of 18-2osomethings need parenting. Not *dominance* and "permission," but still... parenting. So, I do agree that "allowing" the OP's son to go to the beach sounds off, I don't think it's very wise to consider age 18 some magic number.


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## birthpartner

Thanks to the few people who gave me something to consider. Most of you have your opinions without being a parent of an older teen, or you are really young yourself, which IMO makes you "wet behind the ears". Respect is something which seems to have been missed in most of the posts. When you live on your own as an adult you can do whatever you want, but when you live with someone else--especially your parents there should be mutual respect. At 19 sleepovers are not to hang out with friends and watch movies--they are a way to be able to party all night and crash, just as spring break in Daytona Beach is not for building sandcastles. I'm sure most of you would be like my DS's friends parents that let all the friends who are under drinking age come over, take the keys away and supply the beer to kids under the minimum drinking age of 21. My DS never has friends over, because we are not cool and don't allow that. He's not old enough to get the concept that there is liability involved and it sends the wrong message.
I had a similar set of rules as doulamomvicki except for not being free to stay out all night--2 am was mutually agreeable. But, it became a problem when many of the the things on that list were not followed.
We have worked things out now, he has a little more freedom as long as he earns respect with what he has, we will add more freedom. We feel that we don't run a hotel or apartment, so we will not expect rent, but asking him to mow the lawn once a week is all we expect. He is looking into other programs at school which would let him have an easier time at school until he figures out how to pass the classes that he claims to have a mental block in. He wants to go into software design/gaming, so there is no way around getting a degree at some point. So, slap whatever label you want on it, I think my DS will end up maturing down the road sometime and he will appreciate the way in which he was parented. My parents are still there for me, and I hope that he will feel the same way all of his life.


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## doulamomvicki

Birthpartner


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## doulamomvicki

oops!


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## doulamomvicki

[So, slap whatever label you want on it, I think my DS will end up maturing down the road sometime and he will appreciate the way in which he was parented. My parents are still there for me, and I hope that he will feel the same way all of his life. Birthpartner:[/QUOTE] \






















Birthpartner

Of course there is no "magical" age a child is a mature adult. But, IME, the children themselves seem to think 18=adult, KWIM? My ds#1, who by the way is a great kid gives us alot of "when I turn 18 I can....." Birthpartner is right, you don't know how it really is until you are there. Some of my older kids friends parents do things like the parties with alcohol and so forth. My older cousin, who was AP and inspired me to parent that way, was the "cool" parent to her older kids. These "kids" are now in their 30's, live at home and have no career/education.


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## mommy68

Quote:


Originally Posted by *PancakeGoddess*
Making sweeping statements about those kids being "adults" is pretty unreasonable, IMO. Legally they're adults, fine, whatever. But the reality is that the world is complicated and getting more complicated.

I just don' t think this "he's an adult, he needs to get on his feet and survive" mentality is very helpful or realistic for some kids.

ITA. I also don't think a child that is 18 should have to pay rent each month for the house he was raised in.







He didn't do it all along so why should he just because he turned 18?? Well, unless the parents were having financial difficulties and his share helped tremendously. I'm sure it just goes by each situation. Just because a kid turns "18" doesn't mean that they should be paying rent so why not pay their parents? That's crazy.

I do believe a child should have to pay something, like help with bills, groceries, a small portion of the mortgage or whatever, but not 300+ dollars in rent. I think that's a little excessive. I don't remember making much more than that in a month at the age of 18 and I worked full-time even then. I helped out with my mom and respected her rules in HER house but I was part of her family and no way she would have made me pay her rent simply because I hit that magical 18th birthday.


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## mommy68

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birthpartner*
Most of you have your opinions without being a parent of an older teen, or you are really young yourself, which IMO makes you "wet behind the ears". Respect is something which seems to have been missed in most of the posts. When you live on your own as an adult you can do whatever you want, but when you live with someone else--especially your parents there should be mutual respect.

So, slap whatever label you want on it, I think my DS will end up maturing down the road sometime and he will appreciate the way in which he was parented. My parents are still there for me, and I hope that he will feel the same way all of his life.

I gave my advice based on what my sisters both are doing with their teenagers and what my DH's parents did with their grandchildren (all 4) that are now ages 17-25.







My DH has 3 neices and 1 nephew all deemed "adults" according to society and the 3 girls have all had one baby already and only one of them is married (only married because of a baby) and the boy still lives at home but uses drugs and doesn't work (never has really) and he's 21.







They are all in sad situations because they thought they were adults at 18 and were forced out of their homes to college only to fudge up and end up back at home doing nothing but living off their grandparents. There has to be a fine line between letting a teenager over 18 do what they want and making them help out in some sort of way towards their living arrangements.







Like I said, they shouldn't pay rent but they should do something to help out if they are living at home still and especially if they don't work OR go to college.


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## PancakeGoddess

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68*
I do believe a child should have to pay something, like help with bills, groceries, a small portion of the mortgage or whatever, but not 300+ dollars in rent. I think that's a little excessive. I don't remember making much more than that in a month at the age of 18 and I worked full-time even then. I helped out with my mom and respected her rules in HER house but I was part of her family and no way she would have made me pay her rent simply because I hit that magical 18th birthday.









Yes...doesn't it seem appropriate to give responsibility and privilege gradually, just as we do until age 18? I ask for more each year from my kids, in terms of household responsibility. When they are old enough to make money, I'll ask for financial responsibility, commensurate with their earning potential.

As for wet behind the years, of course, this is me chiming in on a thread about kids of an age I don't have. And I really hate when that happens to me (lots of people have big opinions about 8-12 yos around here even when they only have toddlers/preschoolers), so I fully expect my ideas to be taken with that in mind.

My spouse and I were responsible for my teenage sister quite a lot, including having her live with us, so I do have some real day-to-day experience with this, but not with my own child.


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## doulamomvicki

I would not feel too good about charging my ds rent. He is a member of our family, not our tenant. Plus I think that could make him resent us. All we expect is that he respect the family home, do a few things around the home as he did before and pursue his goals. We are reasonable parents. As long as he is growing and maturing, we have no problems. I believe that society has made it hard for young adults to be out succuessfully on their own. We are willing to support Ian while he continues on his journey to adulthood. But, if he lost his mind







: and chose to do nothing/just be a partier, I would have a serious problem with that. I won't be an enabler. Like I said, IME it is more the child who feels that because they are 18 they want to leave the nest and experience everything life has without the responsibility (money, education, job, place to live, etc). There are parents out there who say "18, out the door" but not as many as you think. DS#1's friends who are moving out (not including those who are going to college and parents are paying eveything) have no plan, no money and the parents are not at all happy with the kid. My ds is going to Paul Mitchell cosmetology school for a year then going to FDIM for fashion design in Los Angeles next year. He has chose this route because he knows that he will need extra money to live while away at school and wants to have a skill to fall back on. I think this is a great plan, a very responsible plan. DH and I told him upfront what we can pay while he is at school, the rest he needed to plan for. Sure enough, he did. I am proud of him







.


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## doctorjen

I'm finding this to be such a tough part of parenting. As your child gets older, you naturally want to turn over more of the decision making to them - but it's hard when they then choose to make really poor decisions!
My oldest ds is also 17, and a recent high school grad, and starting college in the fall. We are operating under a similar agreement as doulamomvicki. We aren't using a set curfew any more, but he is expected to let us know where he is and what he's up to, and I do get upset if I find out he's not being truthful (I don't really go around checking, but it has happened that I've found out accidentally.) Once school starts in the fall, we are expecting him to make an effort towards academic success and at least be able to keep his scholarship, or we'd have to reconsider paying as much as we will be for school. I don't think that's unreasonable. Obviously if he were really struggling, or ill, or some other crisis came up we'd try to help. For the most part, it's working - but it's sure hard to see your kids make mistakes you know would have been avoided if they just did it your way - especially if they go against what you consider to be the core values in your family.
I don't think there's any one way to do this all right - you just have to get through it, hopefully with mutual respect and faith in each other surviving.
You know, when they are 2 you expect to be doing all the work in the relationship (not to say that 2 year olds can't be wonderfully loving, but you don't expect them to contribute a lot of mental effort to your relationship.) By the time they are 18, naturally your expectations have risen. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect your older teen/young adult to respect your values and feelings. Not that they necessarily have to do everything your way, but it doesn't seem fair for them to expect full support financially while deliberately doing everything you ask them not to!
I like the idea of deciding what things you are hoping to support by having your older teen live at home, and contracting about those things, but giving a lot of freedom in everyday life. I also think that all members of a family ought to be contributing - so I expect my older teen to help out as needed, not as a form of rent but because he is a part of our family. I'm new to all this, though, and expect to tweak it as time goes on!


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## doulamomvicki

with doctorjen!


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birthpartner*
Thanks to the few people who gave me something to consider. Most of you have your opinions without being a parent of an older teen, or you are really young yourself, which IMO makes you "wet behind the ears". Respect is something which seems to have been missed in most of the posts. When you live on your own as an adult you can do whatever you want, but when you live with someone else--especially your parents there should be mutual respect. At 19 sleepovers are not to hang out with friends and watch movies--they are a way to be able to party all night and crash, just as spring break in Daytona Beach is not for building sandcastles. I'm sure most of you would be like my DS's friends parents that let all the friends who are under drinking age come over, take the keys away and supply the beer to kids under the minimum drinking age of 21.

That seems to be a fairly major assumption to be making about people, don't you think? I wouldn't give my 19-year-old son a curfew, but there's no way I'd allow underage drinking in my home, either. I can't imagine why you'd be "sure" that the people who disagree with you would do so.

I agree that anybody who lives with me should treat me with respect, and I also treat them with respect. I don't think there's any "especially parents" aspect to it, though.

I also think that calling people "wet behind the ears" simply because we don't have older teens is a little over the top. I remember how I was treated as an "older teen" in my mom's home, and intend to do things the same way. I've also been very closely involved with a friend's family while he raised his kids, and saw what did and didn't work with his "kids" (the youngest is now 28). Not having an older teen yet doesn't mean we're oblivious or unable to comment on the situation. I knew pretty much what my parenting philosophy was before I got pregnant with ds1. In 13 years, it hasn't changed, and I haven't had any real surprises (aside from the breakup with his dad) yet.

(Incidentally...at 19, "sleepovers" for me were ways to spend extra time with friends - sometimes that meant staying up all night watching movies (for example, our fondly remembered Star Trek marathons) - sometimes it meant just playing board games and chatting - and sometimes it meant getting plastered (legally - 19 is legal drinking age here). Maybe your ds and his friends only have overnights as a way of getting drunk, but that doesn't mean it's what "sleepovers are" at 19. I was using sleepovers to do drugs and drink at _16_, but not so much at 19. And, giving me a curfew at 16 didn't have stop me - if people are really determined to "party", they'll find a way to do it.

Okay - I'm rambling - too tired, and it's bedtime. But, the tone of your post, especially while you were touting the value of treating people with respect, really grated on me. I'm far from wet behind the ears, and I'm certainly not advocating that anyone support underage drinking when I say that I won't have any kind of curfew for my son when he reaches 19.


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## Justmee

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Yoshua*
I paid rent at 18. 1/3rd of all the bills. If he wants to be treated like an adult he should take on the responsibilities. Paying 1 equal portion of the bills in the house is more than fair so long as you aren't in a house that costs 2.5k a month in rent.

300-450 a month for a room is more than reasonable at 18 and forces them to get out into the world and learn how the world works.









:

My brother had his way paid through college (even though he flunked out, my dad got him back in), he never had to pay rent, he moved back in with my parents after college and gave a couple of tries at moving out, but just wasn't responsible enough. He never had to be. He is now supposed to be paying me rent, and he owes me over 9,000 which I am just supposed to accept he will pay "one day". He's 29 and has a job, he is living in an apartment my grandparents left us, and he had enough money for a trip to Hawaii a few months ago (but he can't pay me rent).

I see nothing wrong with having young adults learn lessons in the real world while living with their parents. Now if a child really can't work and study (some can't) but is pulling good grades in college that would be OK in my book too. If he can work and put sub-woofers in his car, he can give you some $$ towards expenses.

I don't know if this was mentioned later in the thread, but I know several parents who put their teen / young adult's money in a special account every month so it is there when young adult wants to move out on his / her own and needs to buy furniture and pay first / last month's rent etc. Kind of like a forced savings plan.

As for coming home and rules etc., I would agree w/ the PP that it is more abouta cortosy to roomates rather than a child / parent relationship. If he wants to take trips or whatever he should be able to as long as he can pay for them.


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## Kajira

I'm from a totally different culture and had an incredibly permissive mother, but I will say that at 19 I expect respect, I would like to know where he is going and what time I should expect him back, but beyond that I don't expect to give him permission to do so, I guess because this is how I was treated when I came of age, I'd say where I was going and my mom was fully educated on what time the clubs etc I went to closed and if I was driving someone home, who lived out of my way even at 23 (when I left home) I'd call.
But then at 18 I expect that my child would have been driving 2 years and would have a job and taken over some of the bills linked with the car, like the insurance and gas.

But I do believe that he should pay some money towards the household, I did this and so did my dh, however his brother who has never taken the responsiblity of paying bills etc, is a true flake, and I think being able to have everything paid for was a HUGE part in this.

And truly calling those who don't agree with you wet behind the ears, tisk tisk.
While I would allow MY child to drink in my home, again culture difference here, I would NEVER allow anyone else child to, that's just how my family has decided to deal with the issue, because our family is spread between 2 countries one of which allows you in clubs at 17, there is no carding etc we teach that drinking is normal, so no binge drinking when they hit 18 or 21.
I grew up in the cool house, not because my mom allowed other ppl's kids to do as they liked, but because she would talk to my friends, she treated them with respect and in many cases my mom was the one they called first and asked to speak to their own parents when issues came up, even now with many of us knocking or passed the door of 30 my mom still is very close to many of my friends.

Truthfully I think he'll tell you want you want to hear and then in a couple of weeks it'll be back to the same ole, because at 19 and he has to report home at 2am he'll resent being treated like a child and being forced to answer to you when he comes home "late"


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Kajira*
While I would allow MY child to drink in my home, again culture difference here, I would NEVER allow anyone else child to,

I agree completely. I wouldn't allow my son to get drunk at home when he was underage, but I wouldn't have a problem with him having a single drink of beer, or a glass of wine with dinner. That won't be until he's older, though...he gets to taste (wet his lips) an occasional drink now, but that's it. He's only 13.

Quote:

I grew up in the cool house, not because my mom allowed other ppl's kids to do as they liked, but because she would talk to my friends, she treated them with respect and in many cases my mom was the one they called first and asked to speak to their own parents when issues came up, even now with many of us knocking or passed the door of 30 my mom still is very close to many of my friends.








:
My mom is still close to some of our old friends, and we're all hovering a lot closer to 40 than 30. (My brother is 43, and mom's still fairly close to two of his old friends...the only ones he still spends time with.) People liked coming to our house, and it had nothing to do with being allowed to do whatever they liked. I do think it had a _lot_ to do with being allowed to _be_ whomever they were.


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## Joannarachel

Storm Bride expressed my opinions eloquently.

If the person who made the original derrogatory comments about younger mothers is as equally insulting to her teenage children, no small wonder a problem exists.


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## calicokatt

Appropriate rules for an adult living in you home would sound something like this:
1) No drugs in the house.
2) No friends staying over without prior approval.
3) If you won't be home by 10, call and let us know, so we don't worry.

Whether he does well in school or not is irrelevant to your home. If he's not doing a fair job at school, and you don't want to front him any more money for it, then stop. But it really is irrelevant to your housing situation. Where he goes and what he does are really none of your business, unless he is doing things in your house that you have specifically told him are not ok. I don't think that it is out of line to charge an adult child rent, but it would be in leiu of helping around the house. That means if he pays rent, he cleans up only after himself, he is not obligated to load dishwashers, vacuum general areas of the house, do yard work, etc. Your son may be 19, and making choices that you would rather him not make, but he is an adult. Its time for you to realize that if you have failed to get through to him thus far, he is going to have to learn it for himself. Some kids just DO have to learn it for themselves. But you harping on him will push him farther the opposite way.


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## birthpartner

(Incidentally...at 19, "sleepovers" for me were ways to spend extra time with friends - sometimes that meant staying up all night watching movies (for example, our fondly remembered Star Trek marathons) - sometimes it meant just playing board games and chatting - and sometimes it meant getting plastered (legally - 19 is legal drinking age here). Maybe your ds and his friends only have overnights as a way of getting drunk, but that doesn't mean it's what "sleepovers are" at 19. I was using sleepovers to do drugs and drink at 16, but not so much at 19. And, giving me a curfew at 16 didn't have stop me - if people are really determined to "party", they'll find a way to do it.

First of all there is a big difference between girls and boys when it comes to what they do socially. Quite possibly what you did at 16 or 19 may or may not be what my DS is doing or has done at the sleepovers he has been to. I somehow doubt that he is playing board games.







True, it is next to impossible to stop things, but I sure am going to parent and try to make an impact on the choices he makes. Call me over protective (as many of you so easily labeled me in your posts), but I don't think my job as a mom ends when my kids turn 18. My 2 daughters are much different and I will parent them differently--perhaps they will not need a curfew at all. My 16 yr old is totally opposite and doesn't even hang out late. I don't believe for a second that things couldn't change down the road. So, it is possible that you are not in the same boat yet, but things can change. Watching someone else parent a child is MUCH different then dealing with your own child. And being just a little older then 19 as some of you are, in no way makes one an expert in parenting a 19 yr old. I remember thinking I knew much more then my parents at that age.
It may be a wrong assumption that everyone that feels there should be no curfew at 19 also feels okay with handing out booze to 19 yr olds. From the responses I received on this board and the way my son explains his friends parents views--lets just say there is a strong similarity.
I have worked through things and appreciate the responses of some of the people on this board, but I must say, I am quite surprised to have received some of the responses on this thread from a MDC board. Perhaps next time, I will look for support from a different source. I never expected to open up such a can of worms!


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## Red

My kids are 27, 23, 18, and twins, 16. So, I have been there!

Oh, yeah, I 'm there now!

I didn't read the whole thread, just not enough time, so forgive me if I repeat someone else's advice.

First of all, I don't want to stay up all night and worry, and I don't want to sleep through soundly while my kid lies in some ditch.







That's what my mother always said! So, the rule here is, tell me when you'll be home, and BE here, or tell me you're staying out all night and do that. Your choice. I will, of course, ask who's house you're spending the night at, just in case OUR house burns down, or I drop dead and someone wants to notify you.

Once you turn 18, you're an adult. (kinda) So, it's either school, which you get loans for and pay for, (if I had the money I'd pay as long as their grades were good, and I'd pay AFTER they had their grades, so it was their money up front. They CAN get loans) or you have a job and pay room and board.

The point of room and board is to learn responsibility, not to make me rich. I take 20-25% of their check, depending on age, and , well, how soon I'd like to see them move out!







: R and B gets you meals and snacks, a roof over your head. It does NOT cover gas in my car, me doing their laundry, or their deoderant, shampoo, makeup etc.

THey are responsible for all their own clothing!

My ds did not liek the rules. He left. Now he's 23. He had droipped out of HS the last few months, was drinking all the time, was belligerent and mean. He spent a few weeks sleeping in his truck, had some lousy apts. Just last week he won a full scholarship to UMASS, by writing an essay! He has a marvelous girlfriend, a nice apt, a nicer car than his dad and has worked realy hard for all of it.

DON'T pay for the new books! WHy should you? If he chooses to make dumb decisions, you cna't protect him from them. Let him go, let m\him struggle and find his own way. Offer to help if he strives and does well, but don't reward bad behavior!

And good luck. I know how hard this is!


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## birthpartner

Thanks so much Red--reading your post gives me hope. I like your suggestions and have already thought about some of them. Every now and then I see little things that he does that makes me think he is headed in the right direction--but then he often regresses again. I imagine it will be a long process, but he will get to where he wants to be eventually.


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## tifnglen

Well at 19 he is an adult.
But he is not on his own or paying you rent. So since he is in your household you can have rules.
If he doesnt like it he will move out.
For the PP who said something like it is just as much the kids house as the parents: uh NO the parents worked and paid for the bills 99% of the time.
I am 22 and I left 2 months after graduation and went to college and I dont plan to live at home again. I want my own rules and to feel like I am an adult.
So if the OP son wanted to live in her home he should abide by her rules or get out. Simply as that


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## doctorjen

I do want to say that I don't think being a "cool" parent means letting the kids do whatever they want in your house. For me, one of the best parts of parenting an older teen has been getting to know his friends and enjoy their successes as well as my own son's. One of my ds's friends who has a clean-freak for a mother says he likes to come to our house because sometimes at our house you risk sticking to the kitchen floor if you walk in your sock feet.







:

Sleepovers around here generally involve movies, obnoxious video games (which they have the courtesy to tell me to keep the littler kids upstairs during







) and eating lots of my food. Dance Dance Revolution marathons and twister marathons have occurred also. And my ds's friends are a lot of roll playing game geeks, so card games and board games are not uncommon either. Basically, I think you can't make generalizations about what teens are doing - better to just ask.

When it comes to friends over, I have much more trouble with my 11 yr old dd than with the older teens! She and her friends are known to sneak on the internet and post personal stuff where they shouldn't, talk to absolute strangers, and once to scare the living daylights out of one girl spending the night with a bunch of them by convincing her my dd was a real vampire







: The internet stuff is especially scary because she's just such an innocent while wanting to look cool in front of her friends. Never had that problem with ds, and I wonder what she'll get up to as she gets older.

In my professional life, I see a lot of parents and teens whose relationships are just about beyond redemption. I myself don't have a lot of personal experience there yet, but I have seen some things that I know I want to avoid. No matter how good a parent you are, your child will make choices you don't like. When they are little, that may be things like throwing toys or refusing to clean up. When they are big, the decisions are bigger too, and the mistakes they make have many more consequences. I don't feel like you have to support or even go along with choices you don't like - such as paying for school when an adult child is clearly blowing it off, or letting underage folks drink in your house. But my goal is to get through this time with my child still knowing I love him and will be there for him. Although it breaks my heart sometimes to see him do things I don't like, I try to remember that when I was young I made some really stupid choices, but I seem to have turned out okay in the end. I think you have to make a difference between disliking and not supporting an action and disliking and not supporting a person.

I haven't just turned him loose and said "you're an adult. good luck." but I'm expecting him to act like an adult now that he nearly is one, so I try to treat him like one. That means I do expect him to keep common courtesy and tell me where he's going and when he's coming back, and also check before he has people over, but I don't give him permission any more to do things. I might say "Hmm, do you think that's the best idea because of . . ." Surprisingly, he often agrees with me! There are a few standing rules - he is expected to be saving his money from working this summer to take care of his personal expenses this year, he pays car insurance and buys his own gas, and he's expected to help around the house and to pick up the little kids when needed. I do the same sorts of things for him, and for my dh, and for the littler kids.


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## SamuraiEarthMama

i was reading through the responses and got to the point where you said he bought new books just because he didn't want to wait in line and you were paying... DING! big red flag there!

what incentive does he have to grow up if you're willing to be stepped on like that?

i did read Red's response, and that's exactly how i'm treating my teens (a 16yo daughter who has been in college since age 11, and an 18 yo son who is currently in japan for a summer program... every penny of which he paid for himself). they both work and pitch in for their classes, they both choose their classes and set their own bedtimes, and they know that if they mess up, i'm not covering for them. if they get an F, it's their money that they're flushing (they don't get many bad grades, i can tell you!)

they also know very well what kind of money it takes to run this house, and while i'm not making them pay room and board (yet), they do consider carefully before asking for us to spend any further resources on them... if we cough up another $100 for books, then we all lose out on something that month (no movies or eating out, or new clothes or shoes, or something like that).

they both have checking accounts that their paychecks go straight into. and they are both quite grateful (most of the time) for the privileges and freedoms they have... because they know what the consequences are when they mess up. and usually, those consequences are natural... i've never done anything like grounding them or setting a curfew.

good luck, mama.


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## Kajira

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birthpartner*
And being just a little older then 19 as some of you are, in no way makes one an expert in parenting a 19 yr old. I remember thinking I knew much more then my parents at that age.
It may be a wrong assumption that everyone that feels there should be no curfew at 19 also feels okay with handing out booze to 19 yr olds. From the responses I received on this board and the way my son explains his friends parents views--lets just say there is a strong similarity.
I have worked through things and appreciate the responses of some of the people on this board, but I must say, I am quite surprised to have received some of the responses on this thread from a MDC board. Perhaps next time, I will look for support from a different source. I never expected to open up such a can of worms!

even the ppl with kids your ds' age are saying the parent differently, did you see what DrJen and Red are saying?

On alcohol the more super strict you are on alcohol the more risk that your child will do what you son is doing, go out and get drunk.
I've been there, my goddaughter is there and my baby cousin's are there also, of the 3 of these young ladies the ONLY one who gets drunk is the one with the mother who was super strict and never allowed her a taste, while the others were raised like I was, we have never gotten drunk and done dumb crap, because drinking was not some thing that was a huge deal.. as wait until you are 21 and then go drink 21 shots and puke your life up.
Seriously I may not be that far in your eyes from your son, that is no reason to not listen to my view.

yes I will let my son when he's older have a drink, because I saw my step bro turn 21 and let loose and almost kill himself drinking because his mother would never teach him what my mom did me, I don't care about being the cool mother, I care that my son will NEVER be that kid that crashes his car with 4 other ppl and ends up in jail because he was drinking, I've seen soo many american teens on the senior trip come to the caribbean and make bad mistakes that can follow them the rest of their lives, in a haze of rum and vodka.

Anyway I still think that he's going to tell you what you want and do what he wants, think about it like this, you told him not to drink, he drank, why? cause his friends did, now those same friends don't have to ask mommy's permission to go out, or run home before the party has even started to pick up, come on he's 19, if he was to explain why he's leaving, he'll stay just to stick it to you.


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## birthpartner

I don't have a problem with him having a beer or two in our home, but I will not offer it to or allow his friends to consume alcohol in my home. I don't think his friends parents should allow it either. I don't buy into the theory that says they will find it somewhere else and I'd rather have them do it in my home and take the keys away. No, I don't agree with that. He doesn't want to drink in our house because he's not with his friends, but he is able to if he wants to.
Again, if he doesn't like to live with what is agreed upon then he has a choice to move out and take all that comes with it--the fun and the expenses and all the freedom he wants. So far things are going well since our last chat.


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birthpartner*
(First of all there is a big difference between girls and boys when it comes to what they do socially.

I'm not going to address the overprotectiveness issue. I'm also not going to get into the "you may change when your kids are older thing". My son may change, and I may experience some serious frustration, but no - I won't change. My viewpoints are rooted in my fundamental philosophy and lifestyle. That hasn't changed, just because ds1 doesn't always respond exactly the way I'd hoped.

However, the above quote made me laugh. The people I was having overnights with at 19 were named Dave, Mike, Troy & Brian. I was the only girl in the bunch. My dh has friends he used to hang out with and drink with (before he moved to Vancouver). His friends names were Mike, Gene, Brad & Steve...again - all male. They hung out from the time dh was 17 until he was 23, and yes - they drank. But, they drank while playing Sorry, Monopoly, and various other board games. Almost everyone I know played board games, card games, or both during their late teens and early 20's. That most definitely included the boys/men. I've also known lots of girls who who didn't play games, and did drink/drug to excess (whether on overnight visits or not). I'm sure there are some behaviours that are more or less prevalent among most males and/or females. But, the blanket generalization in your post doesn't apply to my group of friends when I was in my teens/20s (and we weren't exactly a well-behaved group, either). I suspect there are many, many people it doesn't apply to.


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## mommy68

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Storm Bride*
I'm sure there are some behaviours that are more or less prevalent among most males and/or females. But, the blanket generalization in your post doesn't apply to my group of friends when I was in my teens/20s (and we weren't exactly a well-behaved group, either). I suspect there are many, many people it doesn't apply to.

That was you though. I'm sure there are probably just as many wild girls out there doing what the "boys" are doing. But there are some that are not.







That's probably what that poster meant.

I was a wild teen too. A little too wild (sneaking out til 5am walking the streets, smoking pot, hitchiking, ditching school, etc). It's definitely NOT something I'm proud of or would boast about.







And I'm sure you are right, some girls are just that way and not necessarily any better than the boys. BUT it also depends majorly on the crowd a person hangs with, whether male or female. I didn't exactly hang with the straight, prim and proper group of kids and the group was definitely a mixture of boys/girls (aren't most of them?).


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## UUMom

It's so clear MDC can *never* really be a place where a free exchange of ideas or thoughts or weaknesses are exchanged.

It's so sad. People are so bent on being clever or 'right' and putting down those who might struggle.

True information can never be exchanged here. It's simply not a safe place.


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## Storm Bride

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mommy68*
That was you though. I'm sure there are probably just as many wild girls out there doing what the "boys" are doing. But there are some that are not.







That's probably what that poster meant.

Of course. But, there are also _boys_ who aren't "doing what the boys are doing". Generalizations like that just get on my nerves. I don't like guys trying to stuff me into a pigeonhole of "feminine behaviour" and I don't like it any better from women.

Quote:

BUT it also depends majorly on the crowd a person hangs with, whether male or female. I didn't exactly hang with the straight, prim and proper group of kids and the group was definitely a mixture of boys/girls (aren't most of them?).








I disagree about it "depending" on the crowd. My grandmother was into that mindset - she thought I should get new friends, because of the way I was acting. But, I _wanted_ to spend time with those friends, and behave that way, and I behaved that way even when my friends weren't available to hang out with. I observe who my son's friends are, and it tells me things about where his head is at. But, he _chooses_ those friends, and if he's choosing the rowdier kids, I'm more concerned with finding out why than with blaming his "crowd" for his behaviour.


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## Charles Baudelaire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birthpartner*
I'm at odds with my 19 yr old DS about limits while living under my roof. I don't want to be unreasonable, I was raised with limits and respect for my parents. My son expects to be able to live here and have all the freedom his little heart desires. If he wants to stay out all night for example he doesn't feel like he should have to ask us or give us any explainations. He feels as though he is being treated like a baby. He reminds me that he has never been in trouble with the law, so I should trust him. He does have a good level head, but he has done a few things in the past which I didn't like. He moved out for about 5 weeks a few months ago and was asking to come back at the end of the summer. We made an agreement for him to move back right away and sign up for summer term at his community college. He has not been doing well at college and I feel that some of the problem stems from his social life. The limits are in place to try to help and keep him respecting us. He feels strongly that he wants to move back out because he has no freedom. He is not being realistic, he won't make it financially on his own, as he quickly found out last time.
Does anyone have this situation? Am I being too strict or should there be a curfew. I had a 2 am curfew until he moved back in and then we bumped it back to midnight. The other night he stayed out all night when I told him he couldn't do that. I was ready to kick him out that next morning. I just allowed him to have a weekend at the beach with his friend, so its not like I'm not allowing him to have some freedom. His theory is that if he were in a dorm he could do whatever--to which I said, but you are not in a dorm, you are in our home. Am I old fashioned? I have 2 younger teens in the house and I want to set a good example.

Any advice would be appreciated









Mom to 19 DS, 16 DD and 13 DD and wife to DH

Maybe I'm being mean, but isn't there an old saying that says, "He who pays the piper, calls the tune"? In other words, *you* are paying for the house, the electricity, the gas, the water, etc. You get to set the rules.

If he's an adult, perhaps he should act like an adult and start paying rent? Just a thought.


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## Charles Baudelaire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birthpartner*
I guess I should have included more background to the situation with my DS. We have had issues with him all through HS. He's a smart kid, but really didn't care about doing homework, studying etc unless he liked the class. We didn't know until after final exams if he would pass the 12th grade. So, he didn't choose not to go to a college with a dorm, he didn't earn the ability to choose it. Now with the community college, my arrangement with him was that we would pay for classes, but if he didn't get an A or B, he would have to pay us back. Never thought we would have to talk about withdrawals either, but he's had a couple of those. Books, we pay for, but he doesn't care to wait in the line to buy used ones--we are paying so he buys new ones. So needless to say his debt with us has grown and although he is working we don't seem to get paid as much as we should with each pay check. He does spend a lot on gas since his school is 35 miles away, but he also blows money on his smoking habbit and whatever he feels he has to have like new speakers for his car etc. The last time I showed him the door, it was after I found some pot in his room. This was just after I had to take him to the ER the morning after he went to a party and fell into a chair rail--due to him being on booze and pot. He claims he just does this on special occassions, but I'm sure those are not just Christmas and his birthday. He is smart in that he doesn't get into some of the other stuff that his circle of friends will get into including laughing gas.
He's smart enough to not drink and drive, so in that respect I don't worry. If he was not like this in the past, perhaps I would feel comfortable with allowing him to make a decision on what time to come home. I just know that he would abuse the right to do that. Last night, we had an open discussion about this which lasted about 5 minutes before he didn't hear what he wanted to hear, he started yelling and packed his stuff. He is making an issue about respect and the curfuew being one in the same. I asked him what respect he has for us--Fathers Day weekend we let him go to the beach with his friend and he didn't even call his Dad. I can't understand the concept of him being able to come and go as though this is an apartment, but still letting him have whatever he wants without a struggle. And if I allow that to happen he would suddenly be a great student and help around the house and whatever else he threw in there. Am I missing something here? He is taking 3 summer classes now--that was the agreement we made when he moved back in from last time. So far he has one ongoing math class which I think he's doing average in, one that he already failed and another that just started that he said we really hard--this translates into a warning that he will probably get a D or an F. I don't want to front him any more money for college at this point.
I love my DS and want to do the right thing, its just we have been through so much to this point that I don't want to make the wrong parenting choices anymore.







I am crying just having recounted all of these situations and I didn't even touch on his past girlfriend situations--I'm sure you all can imagine where that went.
I would love any suggestions. He's probably going to show up this afternoon for the rest of his stuff. He is moving back in the apartment with his friend that got kick out of UNCW for drunk driving on campus. That kid will go back to his college in January and I don't know where my DS will go from there. He's already talking about taking off a semester to work full time.
I hope this helps to evaluate my unfortunite situation.
Thanks in advance!

I'm really sorry, but I honestly believe that part of the problem is that -- and I hate to use this over-used pop psych term -- you're "enabling" him to be a boy. You're allowing him to live rent-free without consequences, without actually having to take responsibility for his choices (e.g., paying for his "line laziness" by having to work extra hours to pay off his credit card bill). And why should he? You're subsidizing his laziness, his pot and tobacco smoking, and what I suspect is outright lying to you about how much he makes at work. Do you have him show you pay stubs?

I'm sorry, but I honestly think the very best decision you could make as a parent right now is to call his bluff. He's packing his bags? Good. Hold the door open for him. Continue to love him, but _cut off the money_. Don't pay. Seriously. He's an adult now...only he has had no reason to have to figure that out.

Just my opinion. I don't have a teenager, but I do teach seniors in high school, and I've seen kids like your son many, many times. Good kids, generally very sweet -- but their work is very poor and their parents make excuses for them. They blame other people for their failure because they're automatically _not responsible_ for anything. I sincerely wish that some of the parents I've had would have had their kids experience genuine failure, failure they'd earned and deserved, but waaaay back in first grade. The stakes are smaller then and less important than they are when the kid's 19. Again, I'm not trying to sound harsh or mean, and I wish you both well.


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## birthpartner

Yes, I am guilty of this, but things are now changing--the buck $ stops here now. It seems like he is going to fail all three summer classes. Fall registration is in a week or so and I have already informed him that he needs to make whatever arrangements he needs to with the school or his job to pay for classes or take off a semester. If he takes off a semester I already informed him that rent would be charged. Last year I thought he would not graduate and that would have probably been a good life experience, but one teacher I think passed him when he shouldn't have--he had to come back and clean the classroom. As soon as he pays for the fall, I told him I would need to get paid back in a timely manner. I'm going to track paydays and have my hand out first. It is very hard to watch a child fail, so I can see why so many parents don't realize that they are adding to the problem by giving them an easy way out. Its happened for too long now and I'm on a new mission. If he complains again and wants to move out--the door will be wide open. It will be the third long overdue strike.


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## Yoshua

i am sad and happy to see that post Birthpartner.

It is a phase and he will get through it. Mine lasted about 3 years, stopped just shy of 23.

everything in life seems to come in phases, no matter how old we get.


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## Zoeanne

It sounds to me as though taking some time off from school would be good for your son. If he is failing classes, then it seems like wasted time and money, plus a lot of frustration (on your part, anyway!) I moved out of my parents house the minute I turned 18 (I am 24 now) -- I think that he will be forced to learn some responsibility if he is given it. I am not proposing that you kick him out or shut the door forever, but if he wants to live as an independent adult, then that is what he needs to do. Getting a full-time (probably low-paying) job and being responsible for bills may encourage him to re-think the important of getting a college degree. I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to exert some control over his life while he is in your house (though midnight seems a little early). I would let him know that you love him, and would never let him go hungry/homeless, but encourage him to "fly the nest" if that is what he needs to do. It seems that everyone would be happier if he had his own space, one that he could control.


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## Charles Baudelaire

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Zoeanne*
It sounds to me as though taking some time off from school would be good for your son. If he is failing classes, then it seems like wasted time and money, plus a lot of frustration (on your part, anyway!) I moved out of my parents house the minute I turned 18 (I am 24 now) -- I think that he will be forced to learn some responsibility if he is given it. I am not proposing that you kick him out or shut the door forever, but if he wants to live as an independent adult, then that is what he needs to do. Getting a full-time (probably low-paying) job and being responsible for bills may encourage him to re-think the important of getting a college degree. I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to exert some control over his life while he is in your house (though midnight seems a little early). I would let him know that you love him, and would never let him go hungry/homeless, but encourage him to "fly the nest" if that is what he needs to do. It seems that everyone would be happier if he had his own space, one that he could control.

I totally agree. There's nothing like $5.15 an hour to make business classes seem "relevant."


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## Chicky2

Just our plan....

Our teen dd will be 18 in Nov. She will be a senior in high school. After that, she is welcome to live at home for at least a few years. If she is attending college (her plan), she will also be expected to work and maintain a good GPA (esp. if we have to help pay for college, but she SHOULD qualify for some really good scholarships). If she is not attending college, or if she doesn't get the scholarships she would require, she will have to work, and also pay for as much of her college as she can. We feel that college is a privelige, and not everyone even needs it to be successful. We feel that if she wants it, she will do her part to make it happen. If she decides to not attend college, and wants to live here, she will have to pay rent. She may have a curfew, but it would only be because we have young children, hubby gets up early and needs his sleep, and we like to shut everything down at a certain time. If she chooses not to come home by shut down time, fine, but please have the decency to give us a quick call and let us know you are not coming home so that we don't worry about your safety.

Ultimately, it is our house, our rules. If she disagrees we can discuss it, and if we cannot come to a compromise, she is welcome to get an apartment.


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## Red

Quote:


Originally Posted by *birthpartner*
Yes, I am guilty of this, but things are now changing--the buck $ stops here now. It seems like he is going to fail all three summer classes. Fall registration is in a week or so and I have already informed him that he needs to make whatever arrangements he needs to with the school or his job to pay for classes or take off a semester. If he takes off a semester I already informed him that rent would be charged. Last year I thought he would not graduate and that would have probably been a good life experience, but one teacher I think passed him when he shouldn't have--he had to come back and clean the classroom. As soon as he pays for the fall, I told him I would need to get paid back in a timely manner. I'm going to track paydays and have my hand out first. It is very hard to watch a child fail, so I can see why so many parents don't realize that they are adding to the problem by giving them an easy way out. Its happened for too long now and I'm on a new mission. If he complains again and wants to move out--the door will be wide open. It will be the third long overdue strike.

Although some here think they would never give a child the boot, it is our supreme job to raise healthy responsible, capable adults. Adults who can find a mate, if they so desire, have a family or not, and have healthy relationships.

Letting a child walk all over you doesn't teach them how to have a good relationship with other adults. (Yes, I know, some of you think YOUR child will never do hurtful, nasty things. Maybe you'll be lucky and they won't. But if they do, or if they are just taking advantage, giving them a free place to live while they float around with no goals, just makes it easy for them to learn the being irresponsible PAYS!

It's importatn that all children, soon after reaching the LAW desinated age of 18, get the message that they are going to be required to live up to certain standards. It may take tsome a bit longer, but BY LAW, the can go to jail for serious screw-ups, so the impotance of knowing how to behave is magnified.

Teaching your kids to have truthful, adult, relationships and the consequences of failing to do so, is just another part of the job. You wouldn't think of allowing a 2 yo to go out and frost-bite his fingers and toes because he didn't want to wear appropriate clothing. (you might let him try for a few minutes, but you wouldn't let them hurt themselves!). Why let an adult child think jobs and bills, and school arte just a joke?

Good for you, birthpartner. Let him know the rules will now be enforced, then do it.

And know you are teaching him to be the adult he'll someday want to be~!


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