# Anyone want to join me in the NCSS 10 day sleep plan challenge?



## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

I have read the book and have attempted to follow my sleep plan several times, but have never followed through. After participating in the live chat with Elizabeth Pantley on mommychats this week, I have a renewed sense of determination- and I'm just exhausted and needing more sleep!









But, I sure would like to take this journey with some others, so I'll be accountable and have to follow through..any takers?

Yesterday I did my nap log and night-waking log to use as a jumping off point.

Here were my results:

*Nap Log:*

Naps she should be getting: 3
Naps she is getting: 4
Hours she should be napping: 4-5
Hours she is napping: 2 hours, 45 min.
No formal nap routine
No consistent naptime, but consistent length of 45 minutes each

*Night waking log:*

Asleep time: 7:40
Awake time: 55 minutes
Total # of awakenings: 9








Longest sleep span: 2 hours
Total hours of sleep: 11.5

I'm off to write my sleep plan and start following it today. I'll post it when I get a chance. I'd





















for someone to join me on this journey! If you're interested, please list your sleep plan and your starting out log and let's touch base daily with how it's going...if we aren't too tired!


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## drea2447 (May 21, 2004)

I'm in! I have to reread my book though. I'll do that today and tomorrow we'll begin. I'm tired and desperate! I'll be back to report my current situation shortly.


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## cancat (Jun 15, 2004)

I have to get the book, though (almost have it memorized from taking it out from the library). Can certainly start with the logs! My dd is a great napper, and we have a great daytime routine, but the nighttime wakings are well into the double digits...









Let's post the ages of our DCs as well.


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

I want in just as soon as I get my copy in the mail.


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

I'm using my library copy!









Kate is 5 months.


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## duckat (Jan 10, 2005)

I'd love to do this with you! However, ds is sick with a cold that keeps him up coughing, so I don't think this is the best time for us to start.
When he's feeling better, I hope I can still participate.


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## wrzos (Jan 15, 2005)

I'd love to try - and will get the book back out from the library and start the logs today. But - I'm sceptical of any success b/c we will be travel through different time zones near the end of the month. But - doing this with a group will probably be the only thing that will get me started! LOL My DS is 4.5 months - I don't have a nap or sleep log, but know that his longest stretch is 4 hours. Naps are my big concern b/c I know he isn't getting enough sleep during the day...

Thanks for starting this!
Heather


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Well, Kate is on her 4th nap for the day...40 min, 1 hour, 30 minutes, ? who knows how long this will last- probably the typical 40 minutes...I really would like to stretch them out....

I'm trying to get her to nap without her paci, but to no avail. I've been too beat to try the gentle removal today..I have been slinging her and trying different ways to get her to nap, though. I tried the removal last night and she did sleep 1 3 hour stretch, so I'll continue doing that tonight. It's easier to do it when she's breastfeeding at night because I'm right there and comfortable. I've been too tired to stand at her crib and remove the paci as she's falling asleep. But tomorrow is another day.









Hope everyone's night goes well!


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

What book?







:


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Elizabeth Pantley's No Cry Sleep Solutions


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## AngelBee (Sep 8, 2004)

Duh!!!

I am slow today...


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## Kokomom (Jan 21, 2004)

Just wanted to say Good Luck!!! I think it is a great book and many of the methods have worked for me, especially the Pull off and just moving away from my daughter a bit...she seems to like to stretch out now







I may join in next week when the schedule is not so hectic! Really need to work on getting her to lay down drowsy but awake.








Again Best wishes!


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## cancat (Jun 15, 2004)

I'm getting the book later today (so don't have all the "shoulds" here, but I will post yesterday's log:

Arta (4.5 mo.)

Nap Log:
Naps she should be getting: 3
Naps she is getting: 3
Hours she is napping: 3
Naps every 2-3 hours, VERY formal nap routine









Night waking log







:
Asleep time: 7:15 pm
Awake time: 1 hour
Total # of awakenings: 9/10
Longest sleep span: 2.5 hours
Total hours of sleep: 11

Fight with DH over sleep routine: 1 big one!


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Cancat, Please share your nap routine-I've tried but I just can't seem to make one stick.









DH and I have lots of heated "discussions" about dd's sleep, or lack thereof...









*Day 1 of Sleep Plan results:*

Sleeping is about the same
Napping is about the same
Cannot get her to nap/sleep without paci
Was too tired to use the gentle removal last night
Still exhausted


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## shershine (Feb 23, 2003)

We'll try to start tomorrow! I'm almost finished with the book (been almost finished for a couple of months now) and need something to get me motivated. Dd has been going to sleep as late as 12am, not napping and waking up allll night long! If I could establish some sort of routine for her, I think that would help. Routines are so hard for me, I can't tell you what I'm doing until 5 minutes before I'm doing it!


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## cancat (Jun 15, 2004)

leomom said:


> _Cancat, Please share your nap routine-I've tried but I just can't seem to make one stick._
> 
> Sure thing! First of all, it's very cheat-y in that I haven't gotten to putting her down awake yet (don't want to screw up a good thing!).
> 
> ...


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

cancat said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *leomom*
> ...


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## drea2447 (May 21, 2004)

OK. I'm back and not doing so hot so far. In the middle of the night I am to tired to write down all the times she wakes up. I also fall back and don't wake uo until she's whimpering because my nipple fell out of her mouth.

Here's our info.-

Ella is 9 months old.

Naps should be 2.5-4 hours
Currently are about 2 hours per day
Night time sleep should be 11-12 hours
Currently 9.5-10

Should be getting 14 hours total
Is getting 12

We are tired around here. We start off the night with Ella in the crib next to our bed. She usually wakes once or twice before I come to bed. I get her up and nurse her out on the couch where my dh and I are usually watching television. Usually when we go to bed around 11pm she wakes and comes to bed with us and wakes at least 5 to 6 more times through out the night. My dh wakes for work around 5:30 and the sound of him getting up and showering usually wakes her up and she is up for the day around 6:30. I am feeling like she would sleep better in her own room, but the only room there is for her is a loft style room. I was thinking about making a curtain to cover the half of the wall that looks down into the great room, but I don't know if I want her by herself. That room is upstairs with the other bedrooms and our bedroom is downstairs, so if it doesn't help her to sleep better, it will just be more trips for me, stumbling up and down the stairs in the middle of the night.

I don't know what I should do....


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Andrea, you do know that you only write down times every 10 days as a point of reference, right?









Also, I was thinking maybe it might help if you nurse her in your quiet room instead of in the tv room...Pantley suggests making things "middle of the night" like once they've gone to bed. Just a thought...

Have you tried the suggestions of moving her away from you after nursing and possibly turning your back? Don't know if this would help or not...

Well, Kate was up off/on from 2-4 this morning with teething pains.







:

She DID give me 2 three hour stretches last night, though. I usually only get one.

I've been following my sleep plan well, but the removal thing in the middle of the night is rarely happening, as I can't seem to stay awake?!?


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## wrzos (Jan 15, 2005)

Ok - I still haven't re-read the book, so I may not have all the info I should have. Regardless, here is what I've noticed in the last two days:

Naps Day 1:
9 - 9:30 = 30 minutes
11 - 12 = 1 hour YEAH!
2:15 - 2:50 = 35 minutes

Night Day 1:
7 - 9:15 = 2 1/2 hours
then I fell asleep with him, and couldn't stay awake during the night to figure out the rest! ACK!!! I vaguely remember seeing the clock around 12 and 2, but don't remember if there were more times or not. I do know that he woke up for the day (like wanted to play - nothing was getting him back to sleep) around 4 or 4:30 AM!

Today so far his naps look like this:

Naps Day 2:
8 - 8:20 = 20 minutes (after being up from 4:30 or so)
10 - 11:25 = 1 hour 25 minutes
2:30 - 3:30 = 1 hour
6 - 6:25 = 25 minutes

Night Day 2
I put him down at 8 PM, and haven't heard a peep yet.

I have gotten long night stretches out of him voluntarily (6 - 8 hours depending). I think my real concern is that 1) he isn't getting enough sleep - but I need to calculate the night hours to be sure of this; 2) he is waking us up too darn early in the morning!

I love the nap routine in a PP. I've been incredibly lax about naps b/c I'm trying to get some work tasks done from home (part of my extended maternity includes me doing some telecommuting tasks), so it ends up being easier for me to let him nurse to sleep and then keep him on the boppy in front of me to keep him asleep as long as possible. But, these short frequent naps can't be good for him - he gets tired again so quickly. I'd love to extend his naps, so I think I'll try some of the above nap ideas and report back in a few days...

Heather
Oh - btw - DS is 4.5 months


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

3 Naps:

9:15-9:45
1:00-1:45
3:30-3:40









Bedtime: 7:30

Typical nightwaking.








10:30, 12:30, 2:30, 4:15...stayed up until 5 again...no teething this time, just restlessness....6:20...up for the day at 7:30.....ugh......







:


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## ccasanova (Dec 18, 2003)

this seems perfect! i was just going to ask the mamas on here how much success they have had with the book and it's solutions. i have a one month old ds and have read enough of the book (started yesterday and got to the 10 day implement plan part, i think it's ch. 7) so i'm ready to get started. i didn't do any sleep logs partly becuase i think he's too yound to have any sleep (nap) routine down yet. he still sleeps most the day. but i guess i could try. what do you gals think? should i even try to get him on a nap schedule already? the book says 1 mo. olds typically nap 3 times a day. i thought it would be pointless to try, but am open to suggestions. maybe someone here with a newborn has had it work for them? anyways, i thought what i would be doing more, with these suggestions is trying to keep ds from getting the habit of needing to nurse to sleep or be rocked to sleep which is what i did up until tonight. he has had a month of this and is used to it already, but i think he is still young enough that it isn't a deeply engrained habit. so i'll definitly check in like the rest of you and report my progress. it really feels good to have a plan that will work and doesn't include leaving him to cry.

just thought i would mention that ds went to the doc today and i asked what i should do to keep ds from getting used to being nursed or rocked to sleep so he can learn to fall asleep on his own. and you can probably guess what he said. "definitly don't rock him to sleep. provided that he doesn't fall asleep nursing. put him down awake in his crib." And if he crys i asked? " let him cry until he falls asleep so that he can learn that he needs to go to sleep. you can give him a pacifier to help him, but don't pick him up. when he's 6 mo. you can take the pacifier away, and not nurse him during the night anymore, and if he starts crying sessions let him cry again until he falls asleep on his own." this made me so sad. of course i wasn't going to follow his advice. but can you believe doing this to a newborn baby? they're sooo little! i don't know when it's more creul. making a tiny baby cry so much? or an older infant who has there habits more engrained and will fight more and probably therefore cry more? maybe we should give more ped. offices a copy of the NCSS book?


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

oh cynthia, that makes me so sad. i'd like to have a talk with your pedi!









as for your 1 month old, if i could go back, i wouldn't start a paci. so if you can just work on helping dc fall asleep without nursing or a paci......slowly b/c you have tons of time....i think you'll be ahead of the game.







i wouldn't worry about the 3 nap thing, i think all nbs sleep on and off all day. enjoy those snuggles!


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

in mho if you don't mind nursing or rocking or bouncing or whatever to sleep then those "rules" don't apply to you.


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Nannymom, the book has absolutely no rules. It's not that kind of book. It just suggests practicing a gentle removal method of nipple to help your child break the sucking to sleep association. Absolutely no cyring or upsetting the baby, just slow and gentle "weaning" I guess for lack of better term so that your child will sleep longer and not want to suck back to sleep from nightwakings.









I hate pacis, so I was just suggesting that Cynthia try to be strong and refrain from using one. Because my dd takes one at every nap now, and it's proving to be very difficult to break that pattern, especially because I refuse to let her cry.


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## cancat (Jun 15, 2004)

Sorry not to have posted, but Arta has a cold, and I think we'll have to wait on the sleep plan for a few days. She's so snotty and snoring during the night, it sounds awful.

BUT, we put the humidifier on, and that seems to have lessened the night wakings.

A little


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## drea2447 (May 21, 2004)

Hi everyone. Well I followed the advice yesterday to nurse Ella in the darkened room where she will be sleeping, rather than the tv room. She took an hour and a half long afternoon nap. Our bedtime routine was thrown out of wack because we had dinner guests, so we didn't have the time to follow our routine, and she went down an hour late. She woke up when we went to bed and the when I tried to put her back into the crib she just popped right back up, so into bed with us she came. She nursed all night long and then woke up around 3:30 and wanted to party. Finally at 4:45, I was so frustrated I put her into the crib where she just sat and jabbered and finally started to cry. I picked her back up and brought her back into our bed and she nursed back to sleep until 7:30.

She just went down for her first nap around 15 minutes ago, so hopefully she'll sleep for at least an hour. I feel like once this front tooth cuts through she'll sleep better. I really feel like it's causing her alot of pain, so I feel bad not letting her nurse in her sleep. So, I'll probably just continue to nurse all night until she gets through this tooth. It's so close to cutting through the gums. The poor baby has a little blood blister. Nighttime parenting is a tough job.

I hope everyone else is sleeping better.


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Naps

9:00-9:30
11-11:30
12-12:45
1-2
4-4:40

Bedtime 7:30
Nightwakings:
10:30
12:30
5:30 (5 hour stretch!!!!!







)
Up for the day at 8

Andrea, Sounds like you had a rough night! I agree about the teething. Kate wakes up some nights with awful teething pains, so I feel it's important to let her nurse or hold her or whatever will alleviate her distress.









We had a cold a few weeks ago, and it was torture. I'm thinking about you cancat!

It seems like there is never a good time to do the sleep plan....Kate is teething off and on and we're flying out of town this next weekend..but I jut decided to do what I can because I felt like there would never be the perfect time- and I was exhausted!









Hope everyone has a great Sunday!


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## wrzos (Jan 15, 2005)

Same here - I figure there is no good time to start, so I might as well try! I'm still waiting to get the book out again (it was out when I checked) so I'm going off my memory from when I read it 2 months ago - at least by tracking his sleeping I'm getting a better handle on when he is usually tired, etc. Ok - an update:

Day 2naps
8-8:20= 20 min
10-11:25 = 1 h 25 m
2:30 - 3:30 = 1 h
6-6:25= 25 m

night
8-10:45= 2 h 45 m
awake at 2, 4:15 - 5, & at 6:30up for day

Day 3naps
9:45 - 10:05 = 20 m
1? -2:30 = 1 h 30 m
2:50 - 3 = 10 m

night
6:30 - 10 = 3 h 30 m
awake at 12, 2, 4:30, & at 6:45up for day

Day 4naps
8:20-8:35 = 15 m
10:35 - 10:45 = 10 m
I just got him to sleep at 1 pm... These little naps are killing me. I can see that he is so tired, and it is totally my fault that he wakes up ( we need to leave and I try to transition him to the car seat), or we are in the car and come back to the house, etc). I try and try to get him to sleep again after these mini-naps - but no dice! I'm pretty sure that NCSS says nothing under 30 minutes really "counts" as a good restful sleep anyway. Yikes!

OK, I'm on the list to get the book again, and I'm trying to be more concious of his nap times, etc. Anything is a start, right?


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Heather, just out of curiosity, where is your son taking these "snaps"?

I thought Kate's short 45 min. naps were bad, but I feel for you. You probably said this somewhere, but how old is he?


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## earthchick (Sep 30, 2004)

I went out and bought NCSS on Saturday after reading this thread. I'd love to join your group, if it's not too late.

I have one little guy who sleeps all night, in his crib (8:30/9:00 to 7:30, solid!) and takes two great naps a day. My other little guy is completely different - he co-sleeps, eats all night long, and is not a good napper. About two months ago we started having him start the night in the playyard bassinet next to our bed; the first time he wakes up, he comes to bed with us. He did really well with that in the beginning but now seems to have his first waking earlier and earlier. He has also become a much noisier sleeper in bed, actually *yelling* if the nipple comes out of his mouth before he's through with it (even if he's the one who pulled off!).







He will go to sleep the first time at night without a nipple in his mouth (I bf him and then put him in the bassinet awake but sleepy), but after that, no dice - he must have that nipple in his mouth to go back to sleep. Argh.

I really, really hope the NCSS plan works for us, as dh and I (dh esp.) are desperate for better sleep. Am going to do our first sleep log today.


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## wrzos (Jan 15, 2005)

DS has been napping on ny lap, or a boppy on my lap. I used to work much harder at trying to transition him to either his crib/co-sleeper/floor/whatever, but lately the only way I can keep him asleep is near me. The longer naps (longer than 20-30 minutes) he is still stirring, looking for the breast at the 20/30 minute mark. Only if I'm right there, and let him get a few re-settling comfort sucks in, does he fall back asleep for longer stretches of time. Night seems to be much better for me, but I'm not sure if he continues this pattern and I just don't know b/c I'm asleep or what.


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Naps

3 naps..1 an hour long, the rest 45 minutes as usual

Nightwakings:

8:00 (teething pains)
11:30
2:30
5:00
7:00
Up for the day at 8.

No duplication of the 5 hour stretch, but her naps seem to be evolving into somewhat of a schedule....


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

i still plan to join I just have to get my copy of the book. i am hoping it will come today. I look forward to catching up on how it's going for everyone else.


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Naps

9-9:40
11:00-12:40 WOW
2:00-2:40
4:15-4:30








5:00-5:30

Bedtime 7:30
At 11:40, she still hadn't made a peep, and she usually does around 8:30 or 10:30...so I touched her cheek to make sure she was ok...and I woke her up.







: No telling how long that stretch would have been!!







:







:
2:30
5:30
6:00 (DH brought her to bed with us)








9:00 up for the day

Wish I knew how ot replicate that long stretch...and have the restraint to see how long it can stretch... :LOL

I'd also love to replay that long nap!!


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## earthchick (Sep 30, 2004)

Naps
should have = 2
did have = 2
should be = 2.5-4 hours long
were = 1.5 total









Bedtime
went down at 8:15 (fell asleep nursing and was put in pack 'n play)
woke at 11:30 (came to bed w/ me and nursed)
woke at 1:40 (nursed)
woke at 4:00 (nursed off-and-on til 5:00 maybe? not sure, kinda blurry)
sleep-nursed a little more at 6:45
woke for the day at 7:15
total sleep = roughly 11 hours
should be getting = 11-12 hours
longest stretch of sleep = 3 1/4 hours at the beginning of the night

Am *really* needing him to nap more. And his naptimes are totally out-of-synch w/ what the book says - his first was early afternoon, his second was late afternoon. Am working on a brief nap routine and also a better bedtime routine.

Right now both boys are napping at the same time. Woohoo!


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## cancat (Jun 15, 2004)

Wow, leomom, it looks like you're doing great! I can't wait until arta is better so we can try the sleep plan for real again. She's currently coughing through her midday nap (I can't tell if she's waking up and resettling herself, or just coughing in her sleep - is that even possible? She's not crying at all). I did put her in her crib before she was fully asleep (just had the droopy eyes) and she just smiled and fell asleep.

Now if only I had the will-power to do that each time, rather than nursing her to sleep every time!

I did count and last night she only woke to eat a couple of times - the other times she just nuzzled my chest and when I lifted up my shirt she went back to sleep again - maybe just to make sure my breasta were still there?


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

:LOL cancat, I'm gald to know you're breasts are staying put for dd!

Sounds like YOU'RE doing great..and you haven't even officially started yet. WOW!


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## Mama Bear (Aug 4, 2004)

I have the book on hold for me at my local Barnes and Nobles. I will try to pick it up later today. I am a quick reader, so I will post soon!


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## Mama Bear (Aug 4, 2004)

This was what ds did yesterday and last night. He is 5.5 mths old.

11am - 1:30pm nap in crib with paci
4:30pm - 5:45pm nap in crib with paci
7:15 - 7:45pm nap in carseat (running errands) woke up because I took him out of carseat - don't know if he would've slept longer.

put him to bed in his crib with paci at 9:40pm
woke up at 10:40pm crying - gave him paci
woke up 11:15 crying - gave him paci
woke up 2am crying took him into bed - nursed him to sleep
woke up 5am crying nursed him to sleep
woke up 6am crying changed his diaper - tried to get him back to sleep several times with paci - to no avail

up for day at 6:45am (even though he was already awake - this is when I got out of bed with him so dh could get more sleep)
went to sleep/nap at 7:45am - 8:15am
just went down for another nap 10:30am


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Naptime:

10-10:45
1:10-2:10
3:40-4:20

VERY FUSSY UNTIL BEDTIME! HAD TO SKIP BEDTIME ROUTINE AND PUT HER DOWN AT 7!!









Bedtime: 7

Nightwakings:

8:00 paci
10:00 nurse
1:00 nurse
3:00 nurse
5:00 nurse; brought her to bed with me
6:00-8:00 rolled and fidgeted in and out of sleep









8:15 up for the day

I'm going to do my 10 day sleep result log tomorrow (day 8) because we will be out of town this weekend. I want to see what my results are BEFORE I go out of town and screw it all up. :LOL

Those of you waiting for books, etc. I'm sure I'll be starting all over again after our weekend trip.









Welcome, Mama Bear! Good to see another Sept. Mama!


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## YogaMama04 (Jan 27, 2005)

I may be a little late to jump in, but we've been doing the NCSS 10 day plan now for six days, though I admit I haven't been nearly as consistent as I'd like. We are battling a readjustment from being out of town, but things are looking up. My first log was as follow:

7:00 asleep (consistent bedtime for the most part)
8:30 rocked to sleep
10:00 nursed
1:30 nursed
4:00 nursed and walked and rocked (was up half an hour)
5:00 rocked
5:45 rocked
6:45 up for the day

So, six night wakings, 10.5 hours of sleep, longest span was 3 hours, 15 minutes.

We're also working on lengthening naps...he did 3-4 30-40 minutes naps when we started. Now, he can go longer, but only with help in the middle.

Last night he did this:









7:10 asleep
12:30 nurse
4:30 nurse
6:00 awake

I was almost scared to type it in case it was just a fluke!

It's good to hear how others are doing....sleep parenting is such a hard job!


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## wrzos (Jan 15, 2005)

I've been keeping track still - but will just pick up with day 7 here:

naps
8:45 - 9:1025 m
11:15 - 1245 m
12:10 - 12:50 40 m

night
7:20 - 12:205 h
2:50 awake
4:50 - 5:50awake
7:20 up for day

Obviously I still need to work on lengthening his naps, but I'm pretty excited about getting his first sleep of the night longer. And bedtime has become so easy. We just go into his room (he sleeps the first stretch in his crib - then is brought in with us when he wakes up), change into PJ's, one story and nurse to sleep. Bang - by 7:20 or so, he is out! My long-term plan is of course to remove the nursing from the picture, but I decided to get a routine established and ensure he was getting enough total hours in the day first. I'm taking baby steps!









Unfortunately, much like leomom, I'm headed out of town Sat, back on Mon and the flying to the west coast on Tues (thru Sun). Do you think for those 6 days I should keep him on EST or change to Pacific? Any thoughts? I really don't want to lose my new easy bedtime we've established...

Thanks!


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## Mama Bear (Aug 4, 2004)

10:30am - 12 nap in crib with paci (1.5 hours)
1:45pm - 4pm nap in crib with paci (2.25 hours)
6:45pm - 8:30pm in crib with paci (1.75 hours) - woke up at 7:30pm gave him paci went back to sleep (I was hoping to make this his bedtime, but when he woke up he was wired)

10:45pm - asleep in crib with paci
11:40pm - woke up crying gave him paci
4/4:15am - woke up 'talking' - waiting to make sure he was awake - brought him into bed - nursed - wouldn't go back asleep
5am changed his diaper - still wanted to 'play'
5:15am put him in his crib with paci
5:30am fell asleep
6am fussing - gave him paci
9:30am - up for the day

# hrs nap = 4.5 hrs (# hrs should be getting 3 - 4)
# hrs sleep = 9.5 (# hrs should be getting 10 - 11)


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wrzos*
Do you think for those 6 days I should keep him on EST or change to Pacific? Any thoughts? I really don't want to lose my new easy bedtime we've established...

Thanks!

I think I'd try to keep him as close to the same schedule as possible. I'm going to try that, too. Last tiem we returned from the ILs it took me WEEKS to get Kate sleeping again.







Oh, how I hope that doesn't happen this time.







:


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Naps:

9:30-10:05
10:40-11:20
1:35-2:10
2:40-3:20
3:40-4:30

Bedtime: 7:15

Nightwaking:
8 (Nurse)
11:30 (Nurse)
3:30 (Nurse)
6:00 (Nurse)
6:30 (teething)
7:00 (teething)

Awake for the day: 8:05

Since we're going out of town today, I'm officially tracking my success and analyzing my data. Wish me luck.


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## Mama Bear (Aug 4, 2004)

I stopped keeping track of ds naps/sleeping b/c I am having what I think is supply issues. I will go back to trying to implement NCSS when things stabilize again.

He has been taking pretty consistent naps, and is only waking up once or twice at night and he goes right back to sleep after he nurses, so for the most part its not that bad.

Best of Luck to everyone!!!


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

We went to the ILs this weekend and I am exhausted.







Coming down with a cold, too. Tomorrow is a new week, thank goodness.


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## Ms Ladybug (Dec 29, 2004)

O.K. I've been postponing my 10 day sleep log, because it's just that much more effort to wake up and write things down, but somethings gotta give. Dd is 18 mos old and I'm ready to get a good nights sleep!
Thanks for the motivation.
I'll write my results when I start.


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## mandalamama (Sep 1, 2004)

am i understanding correctly without reading the book, that NCSS is for babies who are already having sleep problems? or is it also a good read to study preventive measures for later? my daughter is a good sleeper and napper but she has reflux and is starting teething (which worsens reflux) so i think as she gets more and more uncomfortable, i'll need to be more creative in how i help her get to sleep.


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## Tangle (Mar 3, 2005)

HI there,

I am so







to find that other mom's are feeling the same sleep frustration. Alsyon was a great sleeper as a newborn, but now we are struggling. I go to a mom's group locally and today the facilitator gave me a new perspective on my struggles by suggesting that I not stress on getting sleep myself and just trudge through. While this may sound anti-helpful to some, it was a bit of a relief really.

Anyway, I read the NCSS and have stuggled with implementing so I want to join you. I want to know what things others are doing. We are trying to break the nurse-to-sleep cycle, but with limited success.







I am considering a "boot-camp" weekend where my husband comforts her when she wakes up and I stay in the other room. While I know this will mean some crying, she will be in daddy's arms the whole time and not alone in a crib.

Are people trying to stick to nap schedules? Are you staying home to nap? Alyson is not much of a public napper anymore- with the exception of the car.

I look forward to hearing everyone's strategies. I've ordered several more sleep books through my library and will provide any additional ideas I find. I scoured the Amazon.com book reviews on sleep books and a few sounded good. One reviewer mentioned this website which is how I ended up here.


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## Ms Ladybug (Dec 29, 2004)

Hi Tangle,
How old is your daughter. Mine is 18 mos, and is still nursing to sleep. She then wakes up another 2-3 times, and will only nurse back to sleep. Other than the car, I can't get her to sleep any other way. She has to be SOUND asleep when I lay her in her crib, and there's no going in there to pat her on the back, etc... If she's slightly awake, she's standing straight up in her crib. So, we'll see how the NCSS goes. I think I'll start it Monday. Want to join me?


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## Gayle (Mar 4, 2005)

I was so happy to come across this message board tonight. It is my first time on this website, and I actually just reread my copy of NCSS yesterday and was considering making a committment to putting into action. My son is 15 months, cosleeps with my husband and I, and has never really had a sleep schedule. He still wakes up for 2-4 nighttime feedings lately. It was down to one for a while, but then teething or a cold seemed to disrupt his schedule. We have tried to follow the book, but are still giving him nighttime feedings and using a paci. He typically goes back to bed after a feeding (within minutes), so I was not really convinced it was a problem, although my husband thinks it is somewhat disruptive to his own sleep...it does not seem to bother me as much. Is it unrealistic to expect him to sleep through the night at this stage with 0-1 nighttime feedings? (If he is hungry at 5am or so, I don't consider that a nighttime feeding.) My pediatrician tells me that he should be able to sleep without a nighttime feeding (but I don't always listen to everything they say about sleeping/feeding). I usually trust my own instinct, but I am not sure if I am setting bad habits for my son. I tend to think his nighttime feedings are now a habit we've created, since it was easier to just feed him and have him fall right back to sleep. I have experimented with having him sleep in his own room, but he (and I) just sleep better when he is in my bed. So, I am just going to focus on reducing the nighttime feedings.

My son typically naps 1 times a day (early afternoon) for about 1-2 hours. We have an established bed time routine (dinner, bath, massage, stories, feeding, lullabies). He sleeps for an hour, wakes up, feeds or just replace paci. Sleeps for another 2-3 hours, wakes, feeds. Sleeps for another 2-3 hours, wakes, feeds, etc., until morning (wakes about 7:30am). He was going to bed about 8:30pm. Tonight I put him to bed earlier (about 6:30pm) and so far he woke 1x after an hour to feed (for about 3 minutes), but has been sleeping ever since (it is 9:15pm). So, we will have to see how the rest of the night goes, but I am hoping for the best.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am so happy to have found you all, since I am working on the NCSS too.


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Hi everyone! Just wanted to let you know that Kate has the FLU! I am just recovering from it, also. So I will be AWOL for a while. Good luck with your sleeping. Rest assured, you guys are getting more rest than us! :LOL


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

I just got my book yesterday and am about 1/2 way through it. i will catch up on the posts today. here's our log for yesterday:
Nap-30 minutes in bed
nap-on me in sling 3 hours
nap on my chest 30 minutes.
Bedtime- 8:30
Asleep-9:30
Awake:
11:30 (nurse 5min.)
1:30 (nurse 5-8 min.)
4:30(nurse 20 min.)
6:20 (woken up by the dogs thank you very much)
up for the day 6:45

Total sleep time:12 hours.

It already helped us last night b/c (and this sounds dumb) I didn't realize how much my baby would move and fuss in her sleep so I was puting her on the boob any time she stired in order to avoid a full out crying episode. Well, last night I didn't do that and she slept much much better.


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## nannymom (Jan 23, 2004)

I think after reading the book that i am going to drop out of this chaleenge untill Iris is a little older. It seems like for babies under 4 months you just try to let go of the nightwakings and start a routine and schedule, but the goal is not yet a full five hours of sleep. So, I think I will snuggle up to my babe at all hours of the night and let it go for another month.


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## SpiralChrissy (Apr 5, 2004)

First of all, I must sing the praises of NCSS. It's really been helpful for us. My DS just turned 18months. We co-sleep. Before we started NCSS, I couldn't get him to bed before 9-10 or 11 at night. Naps and bedtime were difficult and stressful. But, now we have a routine and DS is WILLING to go to bed. WOW. A few times he's even asked to go to bed. WOW. Now he's usually in bed and asleep by 8ish and he sleeps about 12 hours. His nap is usually 1.5hrs. I love this.
Here's my issue though. We're trying to wean DS from our bed and it's so HARD!! We put the pack & play in our room. He won't go to sleep there, but we can move him from our bed to the p&p after he's asleep. The problem is that he wakes up and stands up in his crib and wants out at 1 or 2 in the morning. How do we get him to stay, WILLINGLY, in the crib? Of course he wants to be with mama and dada at night. Why would he CHOOSE to sleep by himself when he can be with us? I need help with motivation. Or I need a way to comfort him back to sleep. Right now we just bring him up in our bed. I wonder if we just keep doing that for awhile, will he eventually see that we're there for him if he needs anything, and get comfortable in his p&p?
Any suggestions, mamas?
Chrissy


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## Tangle (Mar 3, 2005)

Hi there mommies,

It's been a busy few weeks so I haven't been able to get online much. Alyson has been sleeping a little bit better, but I've been sooooo tired the past few days that I think I'm letting her regress by nursing her all the way to sleep again for naps yesterday and today.

Friday night my husband slept in her room all night. When she woke in her crib he took her out, changed her and put her in bed with him (a bed in her room). He rubbed her back and soothed her back to sleep 3 TIMES!!! He finally brought her back to our room around 3 am because she wasn't falling for the back rub anymore.

Since Friday, she has been sleeping until about 2:30 or 3am on her own. (HOORAY)







Then she comes to our bed, nurses and (twice) slept for another 3 hour stretch. This is progress!! I really need to keep it up though and sometimes I am too tired.

Speaking of baby- I hear her waking from her nap (already








) and have to go.

PS Alyson is 7 months old next week.









Good luck everyone. I think there is hope!!

I will try to do another sleep log tonight.


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

I am just starting to read this book and so far, it seems pretty good and I'm really excited to try this! DD _*was*_ a great sleeper and she has turned into one of those babies mentioned in the book who sleeps less and less at night the older they get







:
She's just shy of 4 months now and has been swaddled to sleep since about 8 weeks because she sleeps longer that way and doesn't seem too happy unswaddled while sleeping (although that has been changing on and off recently)

My biggest problem to start with is that she really doesn't have 'sleep cues', per se, she will suddenly go from 0 to meltdown in a matter of seconds and just scream herself to sleep while I run through my soothing bag of tricks to no avail. At least I'm holding her when this is happening







This makes it VERY hard to put her down when she is 'sleepy' and not asleep, because she doesn't have 'sleepy', just screaming, then asleep. I have tried just putting her down after being awake for about 2 hours, but she just fusses. This only happens during daytime naps - bedtime has always been very easy and she miraculously has never (knock on wood) cried between midningt and 8am!

ANy suggestions here? I'll post nap and nighttime logs tomorrow.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

I'm interested in joining this thread! I've just re-read ncss and I'm motivated! DD is 10 mo and it's TIME!









But first, can someone help me understand the logging thing? Okay, so I'm supposed to write my plan first and after _at least_ 10 days, I'm supposed to log and assess progress, right? But how many nights am I supposed to log? Just one, or 10 in a row? And then do I wait another 10 days or so before I log again?







Help!









And when you are logging, are you guys keeping a notepad right there and jotting down the times, or do you just remember it in the AM? Writing the notes right then and there will be more effort, but it might be worth it, I think.

I still haven't written my plan







:, but I've been doing the work for the past two nights, tonight is the third night. The past couple of nights have been encouraging! She's certainly not sleeping for much longer periods, but I'm doing Phase I for crib sleepers and have had great success with putting her down in the crib when almost asleep. I used to *always* nurse her til she was completely knocked out and I didn't expect this transtion to be so easy! I must admit, I was a bit sad that she took to it so well. My baby is starting to grow up!!!!







:LOL


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *mamameg*
I'm interested in joining this thread! I've just re-read ncss and I'm motivated! DD is 10 mo and it's TIME!









But first, can someone help me understand the logging thing? Okay, so I'm supposed to write my plan first and after _at least_ 10 days, I'm supposed to log and assess progress, right? But how many nights am I supposed to log? Just one, or 10 in a row? And then do I wait another 10 days or so before I log again?







Help!









And when you are logging, are you guys keeping a notepad right there and jotting down the times, or do you just remember it in the AM? Writing the notes right then and there will be more effort, but it might be worth it, I think.

From what I understand, we do a log for one night and one day for naps to get an idea of how much sleep DC is getting now and generally what time. That way, we can see progress when we do it again in 10 days time.

The book recommends that you keep a piece of paper and pencil beside the bed so you can write down the wakings immediately at night because remembering it all in the morning is quite hard.


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Dianna, It took me a looooong time to realize Kate's sleep cues, so don't feel bad. She didn't start staying up for two hours until about 5 months. Until then, she went to sleep after being up about an hour and 15 minutes. What I would do is start at around an hour and a half and try getting her to nap. Try to notice how easily she goes down. Then for each nap, adjust the amount of time she's up by about 10-15 minutes. You'll probably see a pattern of when she goes down easiest. For Kate, I found it was 1hr. 15 minutes...she'd go down in about 5 minutes of rocking...if I waited until 1 1/2 hours, it would take me 15-30 minutes to get her down and she wouldn't sleep long....HTH!

Mamameg, I definitely have to write it down at night. My Mama brain can't remember by morning!!!


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

Anyone noticing results yet?

We're getting some over here, DD slept 5, 6, then 7 hours each night respectively! I found that popping my nipple out of her mouth and putting her in her cradle (or our bed, depending on daytime vs. nighttime sleep) *before* she drifts off has made the biggest diference.

How are you all doing?


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

subbing


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

I'm only about a week or so into phase one, but we are seeing some pretty good results so far.

The pop-off is actually working! I was shocked the first time I did it and it worked. Honestly, it worked up a bunch of different emotions - glad it was easy, sad it was easy (does my baby not need me anymore?), annoyed that I had waited so long to try it. :LOL

The nightwakings are fewer (3 or so instead of 4-5) and I even heard her wake on the monitor a couple of times, but then she went right back to sleep on her own. Pretty good progress, I think.









How is eveyrone else doing?


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## kbridi (Mar 16, 2005)

I'm new to this board, but am starting the NCSS this week. I'm going to do the log tomorrow and then begin the next day.

Actually, we are going away for the weekend to my moms..should I wait to begin until we get back??


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

just started the book - subbing again (accidentally deleted previous sub)


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## Tangle (Mar 3, 2005)

I can't tell if we have results or not. I think I need to review the book again. The "gentle removal" is working most of the time. She is not as responsive to it when I first put her down for bed/ nap. However, when she wakes at night, she will go back to sleep with a back rub (30-40% time) or will roll over after a few minutes of nursing (all I do is touch my nipple to remove and she pops off and rolls over).

Okay... so that sounds like progress. I just wish the actual wake-ups would decrease







:

Honestly, the best nights we've had were right after the night that daddy spent with her and I spent alone. He was able to soothe her back down a few times before bringing her to me to nurse. The next few nights she slept about 7 hours. The problem is that daddy is working some long hours right now and I feel guilty asking him to wake up with her so much in the night.









I plan to reread some parts of the book and do another daddy/baby slumber party soon.









PS I checked a few other sleep books out of the library and after reading some I think the NCSS is written well and makes a lot of sense to me. The only thing I think want to add to our lives is a little more routine. Not a strict schedule- I'm not talking baby wise here!- just some more patterns to our day (e.g. more consistent nap times and nap routines, more consistent feeding times, etc. with flexibility for baby's moods.

How are others doing with this? Is your life a free-for-all, or does baby have a bit of a routine??

Good luck everyone. :yawning:


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tangle*
...The only thing I think want to add to our lives is a little more routine. Not a strict schedule- I'm not talking baby wise here!- just some more patterns to our day (e.g. more consistent nap times and nap routines, more consistent feeding times, etc. with flexibility for baby's moods.

How are others doing with this? Is your life a free-for-all, or does baby have a bit of a routine??

I've been having a heck of a time with the daytime napping routine since DD has absolutely no sleepy cues (seriously, not just hard to read - none). She will go from smiles and babbling to *poof* screaming fussings in the blink of an eye, anywhere from 90 minutes to 2 hours of being awake. I try to start a naptime wind down by doing a mini nighttime routine, but she will melt down right in the middle of it







: Usually all that works is swaddling and bouncing with her in the crook of my arm in front of the fan (for white noise) while she cries herself to sleep in my arms









Nighttime works beautifully though. She very clearly winds down, I give her a vanilla scented massage, swaddle her, nurse her, remove nipple, then place her in the cradle. I can already see that she knows the sequence! I can see she seems to respond to predictable patterns, I just wish I could figure out something that would magically work during the day. I hate that her naptime pattern is crying herself to sleep.


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## Sandrine (Apr 14, 2004)

I'm almost done reading the book. I kinda already working with dd2 to get her to fall asleep without me. Especially at bedtime.

She does great at naptime since the beginning. I nurse then put her in her bed and she naps for about 2-3hrs. I think it depends on how loud her sister is, who naps for 2hrs.

So my goals are: to ger her to fall asleep by herself at bedtime and get her to nurse less at night.

How I'm going to do so the nursing less at night will wait until this summer probably and after she is used to falling asleep by herself. I think it will be easier if she fall asleep by herself before i temp to stop nursing her at night. Also by then she will be about 18mths old and I think that's a great age to start nightweaning. I may use the dr Jay Gordon method to nightwean.

Diana: I think maybe your dd needs a shorter wind down for naps. i could be wrong but she has a meltdown in the middle of it maybe it's too long?? jmo.

kbridi: wait until after the weekend. It will be easier for your child and for you too.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

I tracked DD's sleep last night, and despite the progress we've made over the last 10 days, it was a bad night. It was extra hard to have to write down all the times, but I stuck with it, becuase I really wanted to see the pattern. Here is it:

Nurse at 7:00, put her down in crib at 7:25
wake 8:02, nurse, crib at 8:08
wake 10:20, DH rocked her, crib 10:30
wake 11:15, self soothed back to sleep immediately
wake 11:30, self soothed back to sleep immediately
so far, so good, right?
this is where it gets hairy
wake 1:50, nurse, crib 2:05 (this is where I would normally bring her in bed with me for the night, but I'm trying to wean that, as well)
wake 3:00, UP AND ACTIVE UNTIL 4:30 (during this time, I rocked, I nursed, I rocked, I laid down with her, etc etc etc, she was going for none of it. I finally wore her down by sheer will of rocking rocking rocking rocking rocking rocking.... )
6:15, up for the day

Needless to say, I was







this morning. Bummer.

But typing this out has made me realize that we did have a great success with the 2 self-soothings back to sleep.







AND, I don't think its a coincidence that they were right after DH put her down. The constant presence of the boob can't be helping, yk? It was really encouraging for him, which is great, because I could use the help. He has done little to no nighttime parenting up until now (DD is 10 mo old







) and I'm worn out. He is now enthusiastically offering to do the earlier nightwakings so I can get more of a break, or even a 4-5 hour chunck of sleep if I go to bed at a decent hour. This is major progress for our family!







Of course, I wish it had happened sooner, but better late than never. I'll gladly take it!









I guess I'm not feeling so bad about it anymore. I guess we're doing pretty well. Patience patience patience....


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## cutekid (Aug 5, 2004)

I am estatic I found this thread. I just recieved this book yesterday and I have been slowly readng through it. I might finish it tomarrow since I have a long road trip.

I would love to join you guys in this. It would help to have some support.

My DS went from being the baby you read about (11 hours of sleep by 6 weeks to the nightmare some people speak about (waking up every hour to nurse for 5 minutes)
For the first 6 months of my DS's life he slept happily pretty much anywhere I put him, in his crib, my bed, on the couch, in a chair, on the floor. Many times he fell asleep on his own, the rest of the time he nursed to sleep. At 6 months teething took its toll on my DS and he hasn't slept more than 4 consecutive hours since and he's been boycotting the crib too. If he wakes up in that thing he being to wail (he didn't do that before) Lastly he doesn't put himself to sleep at all anymore.

He used to be a cat napper. 45 minutes and that was it. He'd go down about every hour and half for one of the naps. Now I can get two good naps out of him from reading his cues. I got many of the tired signs from a news letter featuring Pantely's ideas. His first nap is about 2 hours after he gets up and his second naps is about 3.5 hours from the time he wakes from the first.

I guess my goal is for him to sleep peacfully for twelve hours, and go to bed before 8p.m. In theory i guess I would want him back in his crib but I am not gonna push the issue I LOVE my family bed cat and all.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

Denise, my DD was/is the same way. She slept so, so well up until about 5-6 months, and then teething started. Then she started waking every hour or so, and after she finished teething, she still continued on with the waking habit. That's a lot of the reason I feel she is so ready for the NCSS. I *know* she knows how to sleep for long periods, and I think some gentle help from us to get back to that will do her a lot of good.

Last night was SO MUCH BETTER! I know I'm not supposed to track for another 10 days, but I just had to chime in with the news!

Nurse at 7:00, crib 7:30
10:00 woke, DH rocked back to sleep, crib 10:15
2:30 woke, nurse, crib 2:40
3:15 woke, nurse, 3:30 crib
6:05 woke for the day

I went to bed at 10 as DH was rocking her, so that means I got a whole 4 hours of sleep!!!! I feel so much better this morning!









Keep on keeping on mamas.... how's it going for eveyrone?


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

What did you find to be the tip that has helped you and your DC the most?

So far, for us, putting DD down when she is _sleepy_, not sleeping has made the biggest diference., Before that, I didn't realize she could fall asleep without me being right there. Apparently, neither did she! She is now sleeping longer stretches, likely because she feels safe waking up without me there, knowing that she just has to ask and I will be right there.

Maybe I'm projecting.

Either way, she's sleeping longer.


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dianna11*
What did you find to be the tip that has helped you and your DC the most?


so far, the tips I've taken most regularly are having a comfort object and music that I use every single time, with some cue words, sitting in the same spot, etc. He goes to sleep in a snap! As long as he's actually tired.

Before, I'd just sit with him on the sofa, nursing, putting him down when he lost interest, nursing, putting down, etc etc until he finally slept. But then he'd only get one nap a day, or two-three really short ones. Now, he's sleeping two hour+ naps each day AND 11 hours at night. yay.

still not very good about taking him off before he's asleep - I do it sometimes.


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## bartleby (Oct 28, 2003)

Greetings, fellow sleepy mamas. I so want to do the NCSS thing. I've read most of the book, done a nap log and a somewhat fuzzy nightwaking log (boy, that's hard to do when you're tired!). My daughter, 4.5 months, pretty much cries herself to sleep every night in her father's arms, and sometimes mine (more and more lately, she wants me-me-me and only me, which gets exhausting).

Re: routine. We do have somewhat of a routine, I think. It just seems like we can do all of the steps of the routine--jammies, feeding, singing, walking, white noise--but when that's done, she's still awake and crying for sometimes another hour and a half or so. She does exhibit sleep cues--yawning, fussiness, losing interest in things, rubbing eyes--but it seems like from there, she could stay awake for another 90 minutes or so. I don't get it.

Like others have said, my daughter also was doing great on sleep for the first few months of her life. Things really seemed to go south when she turned 4 months. She does seem to be showing signs of teething, and we have also been trying to transition her from her co-sleeper bassinet to her crib (right beside our bed). But she won't have it. So, now we're family bedding it (something my hubby isn't wild about), and things are better, but still lots of nightwakings. I'm tired!

Once I can focus my attention a little better on reading and implementing the book, I hope I can return with my own logs & (I hope) progress!

ETA: The Pantley Pull-Off thing may not work for us, as my daughter does not seem to need to suck on something in order to fall asleep. Sometimes she will, other times she won't. I almost wish she would! Might make things easier in some ways...


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## Mama Bear (Aug 4, 2004)

Last night ds slept from 12:30am until about 7/7:30am without waking or stirring once!!! (He usually would wake up at 2 or 3am then again at 5 or 6am - so we'll see how tonight goes...)


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## cutekid (Aug 5, 2004)

I haven't gotten to start or finish the book. My DF's kids are here until Friday. Things get a bit nuts around here when they are here so I am going to wait until next week to start.


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## bartleby (Oct 28, 2003)

I am really at a bit of a loss as how to proceed with the NCSS. I've read the book, but I guess I did not see a section in it especially for us, which would be something like, "When I put baby down sleepy, instead of sleeping, she screams instantly as though I'm putting her down on a bed of nails." Or, "When I try keywords, back/tummy rubbing, or other gentle ways to help her get back to sleep, baby goes from fussy to outright crying in about 1 second."

See, my baby needs movement (bouncing, walking, etc.) to go to sleep. If I try anything else--even just maybe cutting out the walking and doing just the bouncing--she cries hysterically. I guess I'm feeling like there is just no window of time to help her transition to a different method of falling asleep, because she protests so very very quickly. Does that make sense? Am I missing something in the book? It seems that my baby will accept no substitute, no matter how gently or gradually I do it. Am I not being patient enough?


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bartleby*
I am really at a bit of a loss as how to proceed with the NCSS. I've read the book, but I guess I did not see a section in it especially for us, which would be something like, "When I put baby down sleepy, instead of sleeping, she screams instantly as though I'm putting her down on a bed of nails." Or, "When I try keywords, back/tummy rubbing, or other gentle ways to help her get back to sleep, baby goes from fussy to outright crying in about 1 second."

See, my baby needs movement (bouncing, walking, etc.) to go to sleep. If I try anything else--even just maybe cutting out the walking and doing just the bouncing--she cries hysterically. I guess I'm feeling like there is just no window of time to help her transition to a different method of falling asleep, because she protests so very very quickly. Does that make sense? Am I missing something in the book? It seems that my baby will accept no substitute, no matter how gently or gradually I do it. Am I not being patient enough?


Your baby is still young to go to sleep on his own! Just keep doing what you're doing...I transitioned by gradually (1 minute a week) trying to decrease the amount of bouncing once Kate had gone to sleep...I eventually got to where I could put her down as soon as she closed her eyes...took 1.5 months because I started with 7 minutes of bouncing after eyes closed. Then I went to 1 minutes less of bouncing before eyes closed, etc. until now I can put her down with eyes open. Took a looonnnggg time, but I started at about the age your dc is...I'm sure there's a less ocd way to do this, but I have to have a clear plan to follow! :LOL


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## bartleby (Oct 28, 2003)

leomom--Thank you. I have wondered if my daughter is too young for NCSS, but the book does appear to include from birth on up, so I guess I just thought it was worth a try. I like your idea. I can probably do OCD, as long as I'm awake enough to keep track!

I have to say that what is haunting me from the NCSS book is something the author said about trying to transition your child away from needing rocking/bouncing/in-arms to sleep unless you want to still be rocking/bouncing/etc. a two-year-old. Is that really true? If so, then that's what's driving me to try weaning my daughter from needing movement to sleep. Well, that and me being so darn tired all the time!


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## PancakeGoddess (Oct 8, 2004)

personally, I think (and the book says) if you're happy touching your baby to sleep, via nursing or rocking or whatever, you should do that. For that matter, although 2yo sounds so old and so far off, rocking a 2yo to sleep isn't the end of the world either! In the scheme of life, it is NOT that long.

That said, you can break a rocking or nursing to sleep habit at any age, and personally I think it would be waaaay harder to do it and maintain it with a baby under 18 mos. If you have to woh or some other thing, that's one thing, but for my two older boys, night weaning at 2 was not too hard, and from that point on they could go to sleep without nursing or rocking. (DH could sling them to sleep at any age.)

I really love the NCSS book for its recommendations about routine, comfort objects, etc. It has made it way easier for this third baby to get to sleep quickly - he knows what all the "cues" are, so when he's nursing with me on the couch in front of hte tv it's just nursing, but when we're in our spot with his blanket and the lights are low, he closes his eyes. lovely!


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## A&L+1 (Dec 12, 2003)

We had/have a movement loving baby here. She has been bounced or rocked to sleep since day one. We are trying to "wean" from this gently and here's what we are trying: We cuddle and rock Eleanor until she is sleepy but not asleep and then we put her in her crib awake. If she cries or fusses we immediately pick her up and cuddle her but as soon as she settles we try to put her down again and just sing or pat her back. Last night she did need to be picked up several times before she would settle into her crib. I just sang to her, patted her back, and/or kept my hand on her and eventually she figure it out and went to sleep. So here's how it broke down:

7:30 asleep in crib
woke at 12:20, asleep in crib again at 12:30 or so
woke at 4:00, nursed in my bed (we both fell asleep) then moved to crib at 5:00
up for the day at 7:00

Before it was

7:00 rocked to sleep and in crib at 7:30
woke at 8, 8:40, 9:20, 10:30, 1:10 all rocked back to sleep
woke at 3:45, nursed in my bed, rocked to sleep and then back in crib
up at 7:00

I am shocked by the improvement in the first block of sleeping! It was the many many wakings during the evenings that was so frustrating and motivated us to try to track how she sleeps and make some changes. I really think that our success so far is to do with putting her down before she is asleep. Now she seems to understand that we will come to her if she needs us but that she doesn't really need us to rock her to sleep.

Mamameg - Hey there, email or PM about the zoo, wanna go? Good to hear that you are feeling some hope about sleep! Let's compare notes.


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## bartleby (Oct 28, 2003)

Hey, that sounds kind of like my little girl! It's encouraging to see the improvement in your daughter's sleep patterns. I have high hopes. I think what deters us is that the second we put her down in her crib when she is drifting off, she wakes right up and cries instantly. I am realizing that change will probably be reeeally gradual! (BTW, I love the name Eleanor. It was #2 on our baby-name list!)

So, I'm truly wondering about what I am hearing from some women in my mothers group. I'm not close with any of them, so I don't feel comfortable asking, but several of them say that they can put their babies down awake and they sleep for seven hours straight! And these are 4-5 months olds we're talking about. Is this really possible with some babies? Or is it likely that they've been sleep trained in some way? I must say that when one woman said that at our last group (right after I'd shared that my babe had woken up like 8 times the night before), I had to suppress shock and envy.


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Bartleby, IMHO those moms are full of it. I know a baby who does sleep 12 hours stretches at 7 months, but she also went through about a month of CIO!







I'm sure there are exceptions and that some babies can sleep long stretches and be laid down to sleep without any training, but they are the EXCEPTION- not the rule.

Don't worry about the bouncing/rocking thing. Pantely suggests varying the way you put them to sleep: nursing, swinging, bouncing, rocking, etc. I would try that if you're worried. But I think it will all come together.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

Hey there! Checking in on our progress. Last night was great!

Asleep in crib, 7:30
woke 8:15 (DH rocked her back down within 10 min or so







)
woke 2:45, nurse/rock, back in crib 3:05
woke 6:15, nursed/dozed in bed with me until we got up at 7:20

Our night used ot be very much like Lisa and Elanor's nights, averaging 5-6 wakings per night. UGH. I can hardly believe it has been this easy and that things are SO MUCH BETTER in such a short period of time (approx 3 weeks). I do think that at 10 months, DD was/is really ready for it. I sometimes think, "why did I wait so long to try this?", but then I think that it might not have gone so well if I had tried it earlier. Oh, whatever... I'll never know, I guess.









bartleby - just go slow. Your babe is so young and I can't imagine my DD going for any of this pop-ff or rubbing/patting nonsense when she was just a few months old. Just stick with it, take small steps and I'm sure you will see progress soon. You're doing great!









And Hi LISA! The zoo??? Wiht nugget, too? I'm so in. PM'ing you now.


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leomom*
Bartleby, IMHO those moms are full of it. I know a baby who does sleep 12 hours stretches at 7 months, but she also went through about a month of CIO!







I'm sure there are exceptions and that some babies can sleep long stretches and be laid down to sleep without any training, but they are the EXCEPTION- not the rule.

Uhm yeah. My DD sleeps 6-8 hour stretches almost every night, she's 4 months old and we've never 'sleep trained' or CIO. We have been working with the NCSS, but DD is just a good sleeper. She screams like she's on fire for a good few hours during the day, but she's always slept well.

I'm not "full of it" thanx

SO yes, it is possible and this book is very helpful.


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *dianna11*
Uhm yeah. My DD sleeps 6-8 hour stretches almost every night, she's 4 months old and we've never 'sleep trained' or CIO. We have been working with the NCSS, but DD is just a good sleeper. She screams like she's on fire for a good few hours during the day, but she's always slept well.

I didn't mean that it isn't possible. I meant that when I'm in a plygroup full of Mamas that say their babies are sleeping through the night, I don't believe it. Maybe I'm wrong. In any case, my comment certainly wasn't meant to offend, it was meant to encourage another Mama and help her to not stress about comparing to other babies.









Sorry if I offended you dianna.


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## dianna11 (Dec 3, 2004)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *leomom*
I didn't mean that it isn't possible. I meant that when I'm in a plygroup full of Mamas that say their babies are sleeping through the night, I don't believe it. Maybe I'm wrong. In any case, my comment certainly wasn't meant to offend, it was meant to encourage another Mama and help her to not stress about comparing to other babies.









Sorry if I offended you dianna.









No worries







, I see your point about a room full of moms saying that their babies sleep 8 hours is a *bit* of a stretch, to say the least. I know how hard it is to feel like you have the 'odd baby out' in a moms group. DD has the loudest and most persistent cry most people have ever heard and will go from 0 to meltdown with no warning. All of the other babies have these soft little lamb cries and rarely use them. I have to leave the room with her because you cna't hear yourself talk (or even yell) over top of her ungodly screeches







:

Take heart though ladies, the NCSS has worked beautifully for us - with a few tweakings to account for her particular habits. A month ago, she wouldn't sleep longer than 3 hour stretches - it does get better!


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## bartleby (Oct 28, 2003)

Oh, I also did not mean to imply that all babies who sleep long stretches at night are necessarily sleep trained. Heck, my babe slept pretty well for the first four months of her life; then, it all went downhill.

Dianna, I too have/had the "odd baby out" at groups (aside from the no-sleeping issue). When I went to my first moms group, when my daughter was about two months old, she was the only one who cried for most of it. I was the only mother walking around the room the whole time, trying to calm my baby. I felt like such a loser. (And, of course, I questioned my parenting.)

I'm so glad so many of you are finding success with NCSS. I think we're going to hold off for now on any major attempts to modify sleep patterns--for one, we're going on vacation in a couple of weeks; for another, I think I can deal with the way things are now for a while longer. Thanks, all, for your tips and encouragement!


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## A&L+1 (Dec 12, 2003)

Just reporting on yesterday because this is going so much better than we expected:

naps, two total, one for 1.5 hours and one for 2.25 hours!!!

in bed by 7:30 after her regular routine, asleep after 20 minutes of my hand on her back
up at 10:20 (we made noise going to bed), asleep with pacifier and hand on back within a few minutes
up at 12:30, screaming and chewing on EVERYTHING, gave homoepathic teething drops and then tylenol and she was asleep again at 1:15
Up to nurse at 6:05, back in bed by 6:30, slept until 7:15

I think she was just so ready for this and that's why it is working so well! Despite the obvious discomfort at 12:30 last night she really just wanted some comfort (and pain relief) and then she was ready to sleep again.

I am amazed.


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## mamameg (Feb 10, 2004)

Way to go Eleanor! That's so great, Lisa. Her naps are awesome, too! We were making some progress with naps (she was finally sleeping for about an hour in the morning and again in the afternoon), but we seem to have gone back to 30 minutes in the AM, 30 minutes in the PM. Oh well. With the nights being so much better, the short naps aren't as much of an issue.

We had an awesome night last night!

Alseep in crib by 8:00
woke 11:45, nursed, back in crib by 12:05
woke at 6:15 for the day

Yes folks, you read that right. She woke up ONCE and only once. Let me echo Lisa's sentiments.... I am amazed.


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## leomom (Aug 6, 2004)

Wow, congratulations Mamas!!!


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## Mama Bear (Aug 4, 2004)

We too had a good night. Ds went to bed at 9pm. Woke at 2am - nursed him - went right back to sleep - up at 6am - nursed back to sleep - up for day at 9 am. I am surprised that he slept from 9pm until 2am. He almost always gets up around 11pm - but not last night. He's going back and forth between getting up 1 or 2 times, but thankfully he always falls right back to sleep after he nurses.


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## Maggie Mae (Sep 14, 2004)

Holy cow, it really does work! I'm so glad to read your success stories - especially Lisa and Megan (thanks for the heads-up about this thread, Megan).

We haven't started in earnest yet, but already things are getting better. Naps especially. The norm is now 2 good naps at day - at least an hour each - and today it was 90 min and the 2hrs.

I'm wondering if any of you cosleep? We do, and want to continue, but I have a hunch we're responsible for at least some of the nightwakings... any ideas?

Glad to have found you!


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## Tangle (Mar 3, 2005)

Hi there,

I'm so heartend to see some successes. We have been having a difficult time and things seem worse right now instead of better!! Alsyon is teething like mad and wakes up even earlier than normal crying and fussing. She nursed all night (okay it felt like ALL NIGHT) the past two nights!! I'm sure it doesn't help that I have returned to work part-time and she spent most of Monday and Wednesday with a nanny. I'm working from home so I still see her several times a day and come in the room when she ramps up the crying.

Current problem- She won't nap without one of the following- nursing, being in car, or being in stoller. This is pretty inconvenient for the nanny. While I can nurse her down right now, there will be days that I have to go to work. I'm not ready to let nanny drive her around and how many walks can they take a day????

HELP!!! And keep the positive stories coming.

Sleepless in Sacramento!


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## Mama Bear (Aug 4, 2004)

So for the past few weeks, we've been trying to establish somewhat of a bedtime routine. I turn the lights really dim in ds room. I change him into his pj's and diaper him for the night. Then, I hold him in my arms and I sing to him and we 'dance'. Then I lay him down in his crib and, with my dh, we all three pray together. Then I turn on a lullaby cd, give him a kiss and leave the room. Sometimes, he gets fussy and I try to feed him again and then he goes right to sleep. Other times, he falls asleep with his paci.
So for the past two nights - he's SLEPT THROUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (1am - 8:30am Tuesday night and 11pm - 8am last night) I don't know if it will continue, but it is nice. Actually I think my body doesn't know what to do with the sleep :LOL
(BTW - he turned 7 mths old on April 4)


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